first try with Poor man's AR

[glorycloud]

I have processed a little over a pound of ceramic 386's in poor man's AR. I have
done everything right up to dropping the gold with SMB. I have evaporated
down the solution twice after adding freash HCL and I have it all filtered.

My question is the color of the solution is much greener than when I have dissolved
the gold foils or hollow legs in HCL / CL which is very yellow. Does poor man's
AR normally have a greener tint to it or should the color of the solution be yellow?

Thanks for the help!! 8)

 

[teabone]

Yes it will be green with a tint of yellow. The green is from the other base metals that dissolved. After you precipitate the gold I would refine again to get a purer result.
Don't tell Harold you used AR without getting rid of the base metals first.

 

[glorycloud]

After I drop the gold, I think the next steps are to wash the gold powder
with water twice and then two boils in HCL and finally incineration before
you do the process all over again. At least that's what the poor man's AR recipe calls for. 8)

 

[goldrush2009]

Yes my friend...Next time use urea not evaporate your lost will be less....And green is good here is a pic hope it help,s

I evaporate at first then started using urea my gold went way up....!!!! And when you add the smb the color may turn brown..

 

[Harold_V]

Yes my friend...Next time use urea not evaporate your lost will be less....And green is good here is a pic hope it help,s

Proper evaporation creates no losses.

Green is not good. It's the indication that you have more than gold in solution. The Ideal color is yellow/orange, depending on the level of concentration.

Harold

 

[patnor1011]

Yes my friend...Next time use urea not evaporate your lost will be less....And green is good here is a pic hope it help,s

Proper evaporation creates no losses.

Green is not good. It's the indication that you have more than gold in solution. The Ideal color is yellow/orange, depending on the level of concentration.

Harold

True words of an expert. As in your signature:
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
And just for the record you are the one that is wise.

 

[Harold_V]

And just for the record you are the one that is wise.

Thanks for the kind words, Patnor. My objective isn't to try to make anyone look foolish---but myths of refining need to be dispelled. It's important for one's success to understand what is right, or best, and what is not, or not as desirable.

If we keep swatting at these issues we can get everyone on the same page.

Harold

 

[qst42know]

As a process question for this dirty solution rather than attempting to selectively drop the gold with SMB which may not be completely effective. I was wondering if it would be better to drop all values with copper, do a series of washes and a clean dissolve to drop the values from?

 

[Harold_V]

In my opinion, no. There shouldn't be an any issues with precipitating aside from the resulting gold being rather heavily contaminated. It would be easier to precipitate, using the precipitant of choice, wash well, then reprocess.

I would recommend copper be used only when a batch is very troublesome and can't be precipitated by conventional means. The choice of copper permits recoving the values without cementing the base metals, unlike the use of scrap steel, zinc, or aluminum.

Cementing with copper has its own problem. Unless everything is just right, some of the values will adhere to the copper, and can be troublesome to remove. Other than that, I don't see any reason to not use the process.

I don't recall ever having to resort to using copper to recover anything but silver, aside from recovering traces of platinum or palladium that followed my silver. In that case, I wasn't concerned if some stuck to the copper. It would be recovered with the next lot that was cemented.

Harold

 

[qst42know]

From my own small observations it is difficult to see the endpoint dropping from dirty solutions. Even after a prolonged amount of time to settle, the precipitation tests as complete, but dirty gold must be extremely fine and very slow to come down. Some always showed up on the bottom of my waste jug. At least my wastes are getting cleaner as I am more careful about removing all base metals first.

With a goal of zero values in your wastes, is this achievable? Or will there always some small amount left behind?

 

[glorycloud]

Is there a better method of processing the older 386 and 486 ceramic CPU's?
I thought poor man's AR was the method of choice.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Harold_V]

With a goal of zero values in your wastes, is this achievable? Or will there always some small amount left behind?

At the risk of sending mixed signals, traces of base metals are not a problem. Even when re-refining, it was common for the barren solution to show color, generally pale blue, which is the reason one re-refines his gold.

Lazersteve, I believe, started using the phrase "garbage in, garbage out". With that phrase in mind, consider that any solution that is heavily contaminated with base metals will generally precipitate gold of inferior quality. The contamination may be from nothing more than drag-down, not necessarily co-precipitated along with the gold.

It stands to reason, then, that if drag-down is the source of contamination, eliminating, or drastically minimizing the amount in solution, will lead to higher quality gold.

As far as residual values in wastes is concerned, my experience indicated that very dirty solutions often precipitated fine particles. You can achieve total recovery simply by being patient. All of the gold will ultimately settle unless you have created colloidal gold, which can remain in suspension indefinitely. You'd know the condition existed, assuming the solution isn't too dark, because the resulting gold is purple in color, not yellow or brown.

Precipitating from dilute solutions tends to create miniscule particles that settle slowly. Rarely did I get a heavy particle when precipitating from dirty solutions, which was a regular occurrence for me. Filings were always processed without inquartation, due to their fine size. They readily dissolve in AR, although the resulting solution was always very dirty, in spite of a boil in dilute nitric prior to dissolution of the filings. The gold quality from filings was always poor, so I would expect that the quality of gold from green solutions to be similar.

The real problem with dissolving everything with AR (or other methods, whereby the base metals are not eliminated) is that unless all of the base metal has been eliminated, the risk of cementing dissolved values exists. That can be the source of endless problems for the inexperienced. Note the large number of readers that have "lost" their gold, or can't achieve a precipitation.

Harold

 

[Harold_V]

Is there a better method of processing the older 386 and 486 ceramic CPU's?
I thought poor man's AR was the method of choice.

Thanks for all the help.

I'm not familiar with these items, but if there is any iron present, a heavy boil in HCl would go a long ways towards eliminating some, if not all.

You can also take advantage of the presence of base metals by using them as the method of elimination. If you find that you must use AR for such items, start by using less than is required to dissolve everything. Not all of the metal will be dissolved, but the remaining base metal will cement the dissolved values (intentionally), leaving behind the dissolved base metals. The solution can then be diluted with water (tap water is fine for this process), the solids allowed to settle well, then the solution of base metals decanted. By choosing this method, you will have eliminated a good percentage of the base metals.

Harold

 

[glorycloud]

I received my SMB order today and I am precipitating out the gold overnight.
In the morning I should be able to decant and wash the precipitated gold powder.

Any suggestions about these washes as this is the first time I have used poor man's AR?
Remember, all the gold is from old ceramic 386 cpu's so it should hopefully be pretty clean
(as compared to using AR on pins, etc.) I assume it will be the same washes as i have done
following precipitating gold with SMB after using AP or nitric.

Thanks for the help! 8)

 

[glorycloud]

Well, that was fun! The first wash with boiling HCL turned the solution a
bright orange color. :shock:

BUT... after pouring that stuff off it also revealed that the gold was now a really
nice blonde brown color. Subsequent washes in HCL and water really cleaned
her up. After I get the powder dry, I will weigh it and see how I did with these
386 processors. Then it's off to Steve's mini-furnace for what I hope will be
a pretty little 4 or 5 gram button. Of course, if it was 10 grams I wouldn't complain. :lol:

 

[Harold_V]

I trust you tested the wash solution for values, using stannous chloride?

Assuming the solution was tested, and it tested barren, you have now witnessed a good example of why base metals are best eliminated before dissolving values. The amount of drag-down is minimized, often to great advantage.

It is also a great indicator of the importance of washing the precipitated gold. Imagine melting the yield and including that which was removed by washing!

I found that when the color of the precipitated gold responded as yours has, it tends to run high in quality.

Well done.

Harold

 

[glorycloud]

I weighed the dry powder out today and it was a little over 4 grams.
Not a bad yield for about a pound of ceramic 386's! 8)

Thanks for all the help and encouragement!