Flaming posted snobbery

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I think if someone is going to post a thread, specially on something volatile, they should follow and comment on their thread, I for one would be interested in what the original poster has to say about the comments, both for and against his post.

Otherwise, this just seems like a blatant case of drive by posting.

Scott
 
...as an example:

not long ago one of our forum friends posted some questions about hydroflouric acid. And catched hell for it. Well, who has not already thought of how nice it would be just to be able to dissolve silicadioxide or tantal? I have. Sure, I knew that it is a dangerous liquid, but what is not dangerous. I only didnt try it earlier since I had no experience with it and not enough knowledge, though it would be easy for me to prepare it...if I would have survived long enough :lol: . I was glad to read folk's reactions since those were the reason why I read more about that liquid. HORRIBLE stuff! Nothing I ever want to handle! Not at school with fume hood, not in a hazmat accident with teletubby suit and airsupply and especially not at home!

Surely I would have stopped after reading the data sheets about it first, but maybe not if I only had to do with small amounts of flouride salts and acids, which already could produce HF gas.
 
NobleMetalWorks said:
I think if someone is going to post a thread, specially on something volatile, they should follow and comment on their thread, I for one would be interested in what the original poster has to say about the comments, both for and against his post.

Otherwise, this just seems like a blatant case of drive by posting.

Scott


I call it "internet throw up" when someone needs to post just to see them selves thrown up on the screen.

Eric
 
NobleMetalWorks said:
I think if someone is going to post a thread, specially on something volatile, they should follow and comment on their thread, I for one would be interested in what the original poster has to say about the comments, both for and against his post.

Otherwise, this just seems like a blatant case of drive by posting.

Scott

Just looking at the handle of the person who started this thread speaks
volumes to me. :shock:

Yes, there are some who aren't always "kind" with new forum members
but overall this a great place for anyone who is willing to learn and is
also willing to do their own due diligence by spending time searching
and reading. That's why I hang around and hopefully help and encourage
along the way because so many were patient with me and helped me
when I first came here. 8)
 
re: HF Hydrofluoric acid.

My Dad was a pharmaceutical chemist at a major mfr for 42 years. I was sort of young but quite fascinated by what he did and occasionally went into work with him over the weekends when he had a reaction that was cooking over the weekend he wanted to check on. Of course he had all the fume hoods and safety gear and all the proper glassware at hand if there was any notion that he would need it.

He was not especially good at explaining many things but there were many reagents for which he expressed very healthy respect, if not fear. Among them were HF, HCN, and any of HNO3, HCl, H2SO4, certain potentially explosive amines. Before that he worked at the Ethyl Corp where they made tetraethyl lead for gasoline, and he disliked that endeavor, not to mention the HBr and HI he had to use.
 
element47.5 said:
re: HF Hydrofluoric acid.

My Dad was a pharmaceutical chemist at a major mfr for 42 years. I was sort of young but quite fascinated by what he did and occasionally went into work with him over the weekends when he had a reaction that was cooking over the weekend he wanted to check on. Of course he had all the fume hoods and safety gear and all the proper glassware at hand if there was any notion that he would need it.

He was not especially good at explaining many things but there were many reagents for which he expressed very healthy respect, if not fear. Among them were HF, HCN, and any of HNO3, HCl, H2SO4, certain potentially explosive amines. Before that he worked at the Ethyl Corp where they made tetraethyl lead for gasoline, and he disliked that endeavor, not to mention the HBr and HI he had to use.

I used to make the Nicorderm patch for a company called Alza, before they were bought out by Johnston & Johnston. We had to wear the full containment suits with silver lined gloves and all zipper and suit connection points taped over with a special type of tape that discolored if any nicotine came into contact with it. The suits were positively pressurized by piped in air, so you walked around with this air line attached to the lower back.

This is because one drop of pure nicotine on your bare skin will kill you, or at the very least do permanent nerve damage. Our shift supervisor/lead took off his suit incorrectly, and had just a smear on the arm of the suit. When it touched his skin, he went down like a sack of potatoes, the emergency response team threw him in a chemical shower, he was rushed to the hospital and he never came back to work.

I have a healthy respect for things dangerous because of my own experience with dangerous things. I wouldn't work with nicotine today, but I'm glad for the experience. It has ingrained in me a healthy respect for safety concerns. It's also the reason I respond in a no nonsense serious way when I read posts where people are putting themselves in an unsafe situation. I might sound like a jerk, but I rather that than someone not taking something serious, because I didn't respond in a very serious way, and they harm themselves or worse.

Scott
 
When it touched his skin, he went down like a sack of potatoes

that is scaring! ....I wished I could tell freely about my operations, but ofcourse I'm not allowed. You proceed as you have learned it and you are very safe as long as you do so, you have no time to get frightened under operating conditions. But thinking of it in quiet for yourself of those materials...scaring.
 
Maybe I will not be able to express myself clearly but it is like this. Everyone can learn anything he want. But that (learning) will not guarantee that you will become expert on that thing.
 
Seriously? This is being discussed as if it's a problem?...
I have read alot of Geo's responces to newbies and have yet to feel anything he has writen to be offensive. Yet I see he feels as though he is to harsh or abrasive.
Granted, a newby question asked like the kid with the silver spoon permenently attached to him, gets "attacked". But all that I've read, there was either a language barrier which was quickly identified and fixed. Or identified as the Give it to me now newbies that demand instead of wishing to learn.
Either one gets the same responces.
Here is the safe way out of your mess and then...
Go here and READ!!!

So what's the problem?.
My concern with Geo is that 1 day he will stop helping because he feels bad...
That would be a sad day indeed.

Being new myself, if I read a post and can add something to help, I gladly share so others before me can move ahead and help others.
Aint tat what a forum is for?. People helping people? You can't expect the same person to answer and help the world with the exact same questions and do so in a perfectly " Here's your order and have a wonderful day" type of FREE! help.
The main problem I see is several members all at once replying to the same question without a responce. That just clutters up the post and I guess seems like "ganging up" on da newby. But all is for the greater good of weeding out the "demanders" and those wanting to learn something.

I thank each and every person that has shared what they have learned. No matter how their knowledge is shared.

BS.
Spoon fed learning is soon forgotten...
 
No matter how their knowledge is shared.


T R U E !


Here I learned more in 2 weeks,than in 6 month of reading books,search the internet,youtube and trial on my own, trying to invent the spoon anew. Ok, it worked more or less and with many steps around, more complicated than it has to be. Now, I can learn from artists. Us newbees come as apprentices and fellow crafts to the master foremen, that's the point. If you start to build a church and it becomes a bunker, now asking the master, what to do, maybe he will help you, if you ask the right way, but you can't expect, that he will slap you on the back: "Hey, that's a wonderful bunker!" And you can't expect, he will tell you how to build a monument, before you are able to build a straight wall. (.....should have said yes, when a freemason invited me...but who cares.... :lol: I am my own little masonry)

Everyone can learn anything he want. But that (learning) will not guarantee that you will become expert on that thing.

Y A P !

Everyone can learn to drive car. Only few will become a formula-1-champion. I only want to come from A to B without having an accident, maybe also to learn to slide around or do a 180 degrees turning into a parking space, not more. :lol:
 
stevem4323 said:
true ...but sometimes its better described in laymens terms and not (excuse the pun) blinded by science ...we are not all that clever
The very reason why EVERYONE who has an interest in learning to refine SHOULD READ HOKE'S BOOK! (If you've already read it, you'll understand why I say you should do so. If you have not, you'll never understand)

I have a very tough stance on this situation, and I have no intentions of compromising. Here's why.

I graduated from high school, and had no further education, save for a couple of quarters of math and chemistry.

I took no chemistry in high school.

I founded and operated a successful refining business for many years.

I learned almost everything I know by reading Hoke's book. Armed with the knowledge I gained from her work, I was able to digest more information that was useful in my refining venture.

I had no one to consult. I had Hoke's book.

If I can learn refining by reading her book, it's clear to me that others can do the same thing. It is, likewise, clear to me that without the basic knowledge I gained from her book, that the information I gleaned from further research most likely would not have been useful to me, because I wouldn't have had the basic understanding required.

Plain and simple. If a new reader demands to be told how to refine, and displays an unwillingness to read Hoke's book before bombarding the board with questions, it is my opinion that he/she should be IMMEDIATELY banned from the forum. I've moderated long enough to understand that such people suffer from an entitlement attitude and will never rely on their own wits to accomplish anything. In the end, they are troublesome and keep the board off balance---the very thing that is not tolerated here.

Read Hoke. Read Hoke again. Read Hoke until you understand what she teaches.

Do not post questions until you have read Hoke, and have a basic understanding.

We are about refiners helping refiners, not refiners helping fools.

Harold
 
and please take into consideration even some clever people including myself have a problem reading long winded text maybe dyslexia but please who is now going to call me a fool
 
be careful Steve. the fool is not a person who ask questions. the fool is the person who begins any process that can kill or maim without studying and without having a clear idea of what they are doing. you should not start a process if you do not know what to expect before hand. how would the person know whether they had the flu or was slowly killing themselves by what they are doing. how would they know what to expect from the reaction or what hidden dangers lie in wait for that one mistake.

Harold is a mentor to a great many here on the forum and his words are full of wisdom. you dismiss his advice at your own peril.

as a word of warning, Harold is not very patient with being mocked so again, be careful how you respond.
 
This forum is W O W! It's like standing beside Galileo Galilei and Leonardo da Vinci, by the way last one was an autodidact, too...no wonder, cos who should teach someone who is his time 500 years ahead. Our education systems are build to catch the average, not the highly talented.

and had no further education,

Brilliance does not correlate to education but to development!
 
There are some people who obviously shouldn't be refining.☜ Period.......
That is OK, they can make money or have fun accumulating and selling scrap.
Some need to really take their time and study this forum and take good notes, until it all sinks in.
And then there are members that can help them by refining for them at a fair percentage.
When you consider all the studying and the safety equipment needed to do refining the right way,
then small scale refining doesn't really make sense beyond being a hobby. Many new members just
don't get that.

Jim
 
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