Fraud with Gold of 18K

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xelexo
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alexxx said:
the classic "white gold" scam
we see more and more 18k Italy stamped stainless steel pieces
stainless steel will not dissolve with the acid on a scratch test, it will 100% stay on the stone, even after wiping the stone with a cloth
18k gold will lightly dissolve after 5 minutes on a scratch test and when you use your cloth to wipe the stone it will go away
Even a hard drive disk magnet wont magnetize the "good fakes"

the only way to differenciate 18k white gold from stainless steel on a scratch test is to wait approx 10 minutes to see if the acid works on the base metals, if the scratch marks remains intact = stainless

be carefull when buying white gold
Click to expand...

With the correct acid bottle that tests for platinum or stainless steel, it only takes a few seconds to get the result.
Just thinking of the owner of the shop as i know you cant expect customers to wait about 10 min just to get a test result.
 
hi all....i got cheap sheap scrap 18c white ...they are slightly magnetic cut in them about 1 milimeter deep and there were a lot of black on them...passes the 18k easy and turn black on 22k acid leaving acid yellow....on oxy fire they at first went white and melt in parts leaving black in black...please if you know the answer tell me and i thank you....i asked for platinum acid it should come sat.and will get chlorine next week..
 
I got taken by a Tungsten filled ring last month.
There was a layer of good 18ct gold at least 3mm and then this large Tungsten ring it had all the right marks and no hint it was filled..
I only found the ring when I went to empty out my amalgamatio into shot.
It was in a lot of ten rings I bought off a local second hand shop and there is no way of knowing if he knew he was passing on filled kit.
It fooled me so how can I have a go at some one else for the same mistake I made but it is a very costly thing to have happen.
I am thinking of upgrading to one of the electronic gold testers as they say they can detect such things.cant afford an XRF yet.
 
justinhcase said:
I got taken by a Tungsten filled ring last month.
There was a layer of good 18ct gold at least 3mm and then this large Tungsten ring it had all the right marks and no hint it was filled..
I only found the ring when I went to empty out my amalgam into shot.
It was in a lot of ten rings I bought off a local second hand shop and there is no way of knowing if he knew he was passing on filled kit.
It fooled me so how can I have a go at some one else for the same mistake I made but it is a very costly thing to have happen.
I am thinking of upgrading to one of the electronic gold testers as they say they can detect such things.cant afford an XRF yet.
Click to expand...


Electronic testers and xrf only test the surface. You will be better off using a file to make a deep notch or simply cutting the item in half, in my opinion.

Jim
 
justinhcase said:
I only found the ring when I went to empty out my amalgam into shot.
Click to expand...
Amalgam?

I'm hoping you're using the word in the sense of it being the combination of what you had in your batch. Not rying to put you on the spot, but amalgam has a pretty specific meaning in recovery and refining. I'm just wanting to make sure you're not working with mercury, right? I'm sure you're not, but I want to clarify for others who may read this thread later.

Dave
 
That was what i was curious about.
a lot of the electronic testers say they can Identify non-gold, gold plate, or gold-filled specimens.
And as the trend seems to be thicker and thicker layers of gold it is very hard to get a client to sit still while you hack away at what is still there property with a file in order to find out definitively.
A good unit looks to cost £300+ but if it only finds two or three heavy items where deep filed it would pay for itself.
I just did not want to be the one to fork out the £300+ to find out and was hoping the company's marketing the units where not being as dishonest as the chaps doing the filled rings and coines.
 
Every definition I found for "amalgam" said it was an alloy of mercury and something else. So, I guess all amalgams are alloys, but not all alloys are amalgams. If it's an amalgam, it contains mercury.
 
justinhcase said:
Yes sorry I know I was using it as short fo amalgamation.I have worked on my own for to long and have amde up a lot of short hand.I will try to be more precice.
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So, are you actually using mercury, or not?
 
In general, amalgamation is the process of combining or uniting multiple entities into one form.As this seems to cause some confusion with my colonial friends I will desist in using the term in it's original early 17th century form: from medieval Latin amalgamate 'to formed into a soft mass', from the verb amalgamare.
sorry for any confusion I cover a good meany disciplines and am self educated.unfortunately what a word means in one discipline is often transposed with alternative meanings in an other.
 
https://www.google.com/search?q=amalgam+chemistry+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:eek:fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

I read 10 or 15 of them and I'm 100% convinced you must have mercury to have an amalgam, as far as the modern chemistry definition is concerned. You don't even have to go to the sites. Just read down the Google search list and you see the word mercury in almost every entry.

I like this one the best. He doesn't seem to think that an amalgam is a true alloy, which is the same position I've always held. Most of this depends on definitions, as does any technical discussion.

http://www.stanford.edu/~bcalhoun/amalgam.htm
 
Being schooled by Catholic priests has it's advantages particularly with root language.something google has not found an ap or search bar for.As much as I like to discuss syntax.
the string was meant to be about detection of hard to identify filled items.
The afore mentioned word was simply in a description of the discovery of a tungsten ring.
I personally would always describe a toxic complex compound or alloy in detail leading that description with the most toxic component.A term coined in the 1800's when there was a less empirical understanding of matter is open to misinterpretation.
But getting back to the original query do you think any of the electronic test set's that say they can detect deep filled items actually work or will we have to keep hacking thing's in half
 
Specific gravity is useless with tungsten.
Thank Gia I don't have enough triad to be dealing in large bars.
Have you seen all the drilled and filled bullion that has been turning up from repeatable traders.
That is very scary the losses on a ring seem trivial in comparison.
And the only way to be sure seems to be destroy and recast.
 
justinhcase said:
Specific gravity is useless with tungsten.
Thank Gia I don't have enough triad to be dealing in large bars.
Have you seen all the drilled and filled bullion that has been turning up from repeatable traders.
That is very scary the losses on a ring seem trivial in comparison.
And the only way to be sure seems to be destroy and recast.
Click to expand...


Pure gold and tungsten are very close in specific gravity, but I think if it is a solid tungsten core inside of what is supposed to be 18K or 14K, I would think there should be a noticeable difference?

Jim
 
You are right there should be about 4g extera weight for every cubic centimetre of gold replaced on 18ct.
will have to set up a realy sensitive displacement tank and try.
No dought some one in china will start to produce tungsten alloy with specific gravity to match crated gold. that will be fun.
 
justinhcase said:
Yes sorry I know I was using it as short fo amalgamation.I have worked on my own for to long and have amde up a lot of short hand.I will try to be more precice.
Click to expand...
The word you are seeking is alloy, not amalgam.

Harold
 

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