Gold Business in Iraq

Khalid baghdad

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Dear All,

Im new here and Im from Iraq , actually I live between iraq and EU and I have a chemical engineering degree from Prague. I wanted to ask for your opinion based on below:
1. There is no taxes in Iraq or any licenses requested for gold refining from e waste
2. e waste is at almost zero prices
3. a lot of old computers and other devices

Is it better to sell the scraps to refineries or intereseted people in EU and USA or to make the process in Iraq?

Sincerly
 
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FrugalRefiner

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Welcome into the light Khalid. A member for nearly two years before making your first post. That's unusual these days.

I can't answer your question because there are so many other questions to consider.

Start with time. How much time do you have? Do you have a family? Do you have a job? I don't want you to give me answers about your personal life, but I want you to consider things like that in deciding what you want to do. Almost any approach you take will require a commitment of time to be successful. If you have a family and a full time job, you may find it difficult to devote the time to turning this into a business.

How much scrap is available to you? Is it the occasional computer from people you know, or do you have connections to people who can supply many tons? Is it high yielding waste like telecom equipment, or is it low yielding material like consumer electronics? Do you have the space to handle a lot of material, or just a bit?

If you choose to resell, where will you sell it? If the price of ewaste is next to nothing, how will you sell it for more? If you plan to ship it elsewhere, what will your cost of shipping be? Are there any government restrictions for shipping this material out of Iraq, or shipping it into your planned destination?

Do you have others who can help you? Whether it's reselling the scrap, processing it yourself, or a combination, it all takes work. Everything from picking it up, sorting, breaking down, repackaging, refining, etc. takes effort. Doing it on anything more than a hobby scale often requires hired help. Do you have trustworthy, reliable help available?

Those are just a few considerations off the top of my head. You see, it's a difficult question to answer without a lot more information. Most people begin on a small scale, picking up a bit of scrap here and there and trying their hands at sorting it, breaking it down, cherry picking the highest yielding components, and sell the rest. Once you've actually worked at it for a while, you'll begin to be able to answer some of the questions I posed, and you'll probably recognize a lot of other issues to consider.

I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide.

Dave
 

grainsofgold

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If you refine the gold you’d have to sell it inside Iran and then how are you going to get the money out ? My friend is from there and owns a few rentals. the money he collects stays in a bank account in Iran and he uses it when he goes to see his parents.
 

Yggdrasil

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If you refine the gold you’d have to sell it inside Iran and then how are you going to get the money out ? My friend is from there and owns a few rentals. the money he collects stays in a bank account in Iran and he uses it when he goes to see his parents.
Two different countries.
But since he partially live in Iraq, that part should not pose any problems.
 

nickvc

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As Dave has pointed out there is no easy answer to your questions because of the many variables in your situation .
There is money in e waste but it takes time and knowledge to identify the items worth that time as a one man business, if you intend to have staff then you need to train them to sort the good from the so so material .
Doing the recovery in house requires knowledge and access to the chemicals required plus a way to safely dispose of the waste ,
you also need a market for the values produced .
You could make this happen but only you can determine what’s feasible and profitable in your situation .
 

4metals

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Khalid,

I think the one thing everyone here is trying to figure into their answer is the political and economic situation in Iraq. Truth of the matter is that is something only you can assess because you live it daily. All we can do you is point you in the direction that can lead to your success and point out the pitfalls.

So let me start with the basic things you will need. The key to success in refining is getting your material into a form that is homogeneous so you can sample it to know it’s value. With e-scrap that usually involves a degree of disassembly, separation and finally granulating the material to a sample-able particle size. I have found that operation of a medium to
large scale facility benefits from producing a material that is homogeneous wether you plan on shipping to an outside refiner (usually abroad) or processing in house.

If the e-scrap can be had inexpensively that is half the battle. A lot of e-scrap processors pay only on expected copper value so any and all base metals that come off in disassembly are sold off to scrap dealers and the PM’s are concentrated for either shipment or processing.

What you have to answer is what, if any, restrictions you will face with drums of prepared and sampled material going out of country for processing. With a startup operation it is usually wise to quantify and ship PM bearing scrap before venturing into the expense of recovery in house. So at the outset, shipping off site will be necessary.

There are many options once you start down this road and these can be discussed here on the forum when you have more specifics. But if you have the capacity and infrastructure to collect and prepare this type material, we can guide you on many options all predicated on the specific details of your feedstock.

I wish you luck with your venture.
 

kurtak

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Dave (FrugalRefiner) nickvc & 4metals have given you some VERY good advice --- things for you to think about in getting started with questions that can help us help you

Kurt
 

Khalid baghdad

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Thank you all for the answers,

To Mr. Dave,

The reason I didnt posted for two years is that Im still learning about this issue and would not like to ask questions that I can google my self.
Thank you for your answer and yes I have a family and a full time job but I dont work as an empolyee but as a mediator for selling spare parts and other services from Czech to energy sector in Iraq and Libya (Refineries & power plant).
By the end of March I know that I will have time to make experiments and actually I miss laboratory and real chemistry with dirty hand.

How much scrap is available to you?

Nice question the best thing in Iraq is that in Baghdad there is a BAZAR for each type of business in one long street that means:

for engine Lubricants its in Sinak street Baghdad
for basic food in big amounts flour, oil, sugar and rice there is Gamila district
for animal selling there is Ghazal sooq

now for computers, electronics selling and repearing there is Sinaa street ( in translation industry street)

now these streets are wholesalers not only for Baghdad 8 mil but for all Iraq 40 mil.

I have a shop my self for lubricants and its easy to get to these people in Sinaa street. regarding restriction on e waste export i must to ask and no I dont have any connections outside iraq in this field.

The last part of your message is true thats why I want to start on small amounts to understand the process.

To 4metals

If the e-scrap can be had inexpensively that is half the battle - very well expressed

There are many options once you start down this road and these can be discussed here on the forum when you have more specifics - I will be back here after doing part of my homework in Baghdad

Thank you all and best regards
 

orvi

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For the start, i will pick up some mid grade ewaste. Not low or high yielding. Low yielding waste could have very high processing/shipping cost for you in the small scale - could become frustrating from the beginning of the venture. High grade could be tough to access for good price, because of well established business around it. But if you have opportunity to get it for good price, then why not. If the price is low in your country, there is high probability that selling processed waste, eg IC chips, gold plated items, pins etc. would be tough in your homeland due to established business in this field.

First thing i would look up is, if it is possible to ship concentrated values to countries where the buyers can pay better money. Restrictions, bureaucracy, paperwork, permissions, limitations, taxes, tolls... etc. Calculate if it is worth all the trouble, fees and time. Also dont forget the import laws of the country where you will be shipping your product. It could be considered a waste material, and many countries have tight regulations on waste import.

Also, you need to know what you are dealing with. If purchasing bulk, not processed waste like whole computers, telecom stuff etc. you need to know whats inside. If purchasing boards, you need to know how to evaluate the value of each individual component - for precious metals and base metals included. You need to be prepared for quick assaying of the sample of material to asses its value for further negotiation with seller.

When shipping, you need to reduce the weight of the material to minimum, thus lowering the shipping cost. Consider making some sort of concentrate, which should be homogenous = easy to sample and assay. This is key for successful deal with your customer = you know what you have and what its worth, your customer recieve exactly what you promised = happy customer, returning to make another deal (especially when you are shipping abroad and can´t make deal in person).

Purer product you make, more it could be considered a "precious metal" by authorities. This could be troublesome in some cases, as export and import laws could force you to pay more taxes and fees.

Many of this you probably already considered, but that is what I see as a must for starting more on the successful side :)

I wish you good luck
 

Khalid baghdad

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For the start, i will pick up some mid grade ewaste. Not low or high yielding. Low yielding waste could have very high processing/shipping cost for you in the small scale - could become frustrating from the beginning of the venture. High grade could be tough to access for good price, because of well established business around it. But if you have opportunity to get it for good price, then why not. If the price is low in your country, there is high probability that selling processed waste, eg IC chips, gold plated items, pins etc. would be tough in your homeland due to established business in this field.

First thing i would look up is, if it is possible to ship concentrated values to countries where the buyers can pay better money. Restrictions, bureaucracy, paperwork, permissions, limitations, taxes, tolls... etc. Calculate if it is worth all the trouble, fees and time. Also dont forget the import laws of the country where you will be shipping your product. It could be considered a waste material, and many countries have tight regulations on waste import.

Also, you need to know what you are dealing with. If purchasing bulk, not processed waste like whole computers, telecom stuff etc. you need to know whats inside. If purchasing boards, you need to know how to evaluate the value of each individual component - for precious metals and base metals included. You need to be prepared for quick assaying of the sample of material to asses its value for further negotiation with seller.

When shipping, you need to reduce the weight of the material to minimum, thus lowering the shipping cost. Consider making some sort of concentrate, which should be homogenous = easy to sample and assay. This is key for successful deal with your customer = you know what you have and what its worth, your customer recieve exactly what you promised = happy customer, returning to make another deal (especially when you are shipping abroad and can´t make deal in person).

Purer product you make, more it could be considered a "precious metal" by authorities. This could be troublesome in some cases, as export and import laws could force you to pay more taxes and fees.

Many of this you probably already considered, but that is what I see as a must for starting more on the successful side :)

I wish you good luck
Thank you it was a very important advices especially :

Purer product you make, more it could be considered a "precious metal" by authorities
 

BlackLabel

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Hi Khalid,

In Iraq, you could get some real good military scrap electronics. All components will be higher quality than consumer electronics (especialy connectors).
Even totally destroyed boards still contain the precious metals.

Happy hunting, good luck!

Best regards from Germany.
 

4metals

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Khalid,

I was thinking about what you asked and I realized my answer about reducing the size of the material to a sample-able size is a bit incomplete. Actually once you have produced the properly sized material, a machine called a stream sampler is used to sample the material. For a startup, the cost of one of these beasts is out of reach. I would suggest you ship to a refiner who has a stream sampler and actually witness the sampling of your material.

Years back, when I was new to the forum, I posted on a thread about sampling. Actually about every type of sampling. This is the link to the thread:


I got screwed by 2 different refineries



If you scroll through the thread you will come to the section I posted about e-scrap and sampling. This will explain some of the considerations you need to have when preparing your material for stream sampling.



You would still need to do the manual gross disassembly, magnetic separation and shredding but save on the cost of a stream sampler until you are confident in your path.
 

Khalid baghdad

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Khalid,

I was thinking about what you asked and I realized my answer about reducing the size of the material to a sample-able size is a bit incomplete. Actually once you have produced the properly sized material, a machine called a stream sampler is used to sample the material. For a startup, the cost of one of these beasts is out of reach. I would suggest you ship to a refiner who has a stream sampler and actually witness the sampling of your material.

Years back, when I was new to the forum, I posted on a thread about sampling. Actually about every type of sampling. This is the link to the thread:


I got screwed by 2 different refineries



If you scroll through the thread you will come to the section I posted about e-scrap and sampling. This will explain some of the considerations you need to have when preparing your material for stream sampling.



You would still need to do the manual gross disassembly, magnetic separation and shredding but save on the cost of a stream sampler until you are confident in your path.
Thank you I read the threat . Im thinking mainly in doing the whole job in Baghdad due to low electricity price , labour and raw material. I will start with small amounts and see the possibilities . This kind of business is not yet knowen in Iraq which is both good and bad . Good because the prices will be near to zero and bad because the most hard part will be to built a network of suppliers/collectors of e scraps.
 
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