I am new to this business and have a few questions . I have a miner friend that is ready to do partner with me in the gold business . we are willing to import our unrefined gold to united states , have it either refined and sold or sold as is to any interested party , but i have found that there is a stigma on gold coming from Africa . Why is that ? Isn't most of the worlds gold from Africa ? If the middleman is eliminated , wouldn't that be beneficial to the buyer ? are there any interested parties ?
Gold imports
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Anonymous
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Are there no places in Africa that will buy it?If most of the world's gold comes from Africa,then I would imagine you would get a much higher price there,and you would not have to ship anything.
jeneje
Well-known member
At what price, are they nuggets or dust or rock form.
NobleMetalWorks
Well-known member
cocoloco said:
Who is your miner friend? What is the name of his company? Is his company registered with the local US Embassy of the country he resides in? Matter of fact, while we are talking about countries, what country is it your miner friend, and his business, is located in? So far as my knowledge goes, even in illegal mining sites, miners in West Africa always work more than one person because of the likely hood that they will be robbed by bandits, or worse killed, for whatever gold they might have. If you want to import gold into the US, have you pass any deal of this nature, through the US State Department.(I will explain this later.
Why in the world would you import unrefined gold into the US? It would make far more sense to at least refine it into a form that is both easier and safer to transport than some form of concentrate. Has it been assayed?, does it come from one place or all over West Africa?
I wouldn't refine it, and certainly would not purchase it, not even a chance, the legalities involved make this a very extremely difficult deal to transact, not mentioning the fact that this is not a real deal, regardless of what you think you know, this is a classic scam.
A stigma is like a stain on someone or some entity's reputation, West African Nations don't have a reputation, they are just plain corrupt. This is a fact and not open for debate or discussion so far as I am concerned. And not just corrupt, but corrupt on a scale that is not experienced anywhere else in the entire world. Why do people think that? Do you honestly have to ask that question?
No, the country with the highest gold production is China. The second is South Africa, then Australia, the US, Peru, Russia, Canada THEN Mali at number 8, Ghana at number 10, then Tanzania at 16. Of the 4 African Nations in the top 16 countries that produce gold, all of them with the exception of South Africa have toxic dumps full of dangerous compounds and chemicals as a result of recovering precious metals from electronic scrap. That's where your gold dust in West African nations more often than not, comes from. Illegal reclamation of precious metals from e-waste, scrap that originated in the US, and was illegally shipped into a West African nation. Why would anyone in their right mind, who resides in the US, support such a business? I wouldn't. I happen to believe that e-scrap should reside and be recycled here in the United States, and stay here.
How have you eliminated the middle man? YOU are the middle man, just because you claim you are partnering with someone in some unknown African Nation, does not mean you get to claim their is no middle man, you are it.
Now then, here are just a few of the reasons why you will not find someone in the US attempting to do any business with you.
First, all legitimate and legal gold is already being purchased by legitimate companies who import gold into the United States legally. That means, anything you are trying to sell, is more than likely not legal.
The gold you are attempting to sell, if real, is either as a result of illegal e-waste reclamation or illegal mining. It is also highly possible that the gold is conflict gold, if it originates from a West African nation. You might not be aware of this well known fact, but most of the gold that is mined illegally in West African Nations ends up buying weapons for different groups. Sometimes these groups are so called freedom fighters, sometimes they are terrorists, sometimes they are something else. One thing for sure is that they are not good, and if these facts can be proven by the US State Department, any American involved in a deal of this nature, would be in serious trouble with Federal laws.
So far as your "stigma" is concerned, people have learned the hard way, that to trust anyone in any West African nation is folly. There is no stigma about it, this isn't a black stain against West African Nations, this is a fact. West African Nations are notoriously corrupt. In all the time I have been involved in international trade, I have never once, not ever, heard of any "gold dust" deal that was ever transacted successfully from any West African nation by any individual who was attempting to purchase the gold through unconventional channels, like you are offering. EVER! And please, let me make that crystal clear so there is no misunderstanding, EVER EVER EVER.
Because scams are so rampant and being ripped off so prevalent in all the West African Nations, any American business being conducted in the region should go through the US Embassy of that country, as well as the State Department and possibly Homeland Security. If not, then anyone who does business in those countries runs the risk of supporting entities that the US Government considers to be terrorist orgqanizations.
Anytime gold is being sold for a lot less than it's value, the deal can be considered right off the bat as being a scam. Gold Dust does not sell for less than it's value, period, ever. That would be like selling a dollar for less than it's value. SPECIALLY if it has been melted into Dore' form (where it's been melted into a bar that has a purity over 90%), gold is very similar to currency. There are companies, legitimate companies, who are actively seeking out legitimate gold for purchase in West African nations, so active that people who hold conflict gold figure out a way to get it into the purchasing stream as legitimate gold. This means, any "gold dust" or other form of gold, being sold and is real, is also most certainly illegally obtained in some fashion.
So if you are not a scam artist yourself, I would wager your so called partner is, and is trying to get you in on his/her scam. In other words, if you are not a scam artist, you are most certainly operating as a potential victim.
In short, you are one of two things, you are either a scam artist or a potential victim of a scam artist, but your gold dust deal is not real regardless.
Scott
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Anonymous
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Lol...
You have to hand it to Scott.He is about the most thorough member I believe we have ever had on the forum.Hat's off to you Scott.
You have to hand it to Scott.He is about the most thorough member I believe we have ever had on the forum.Hat's off to you Scott.
NobleMetalWorks
Well-known member
mic said:
You know, sometimes I'm a bit afraid that I over explain things, and other times that I don't say enough. You cannot imagine how much material I delete on a regular post, trying to be more fluid with what I say.
But thank you for the compliment, it's appreciated. :mrgreen:
Scott
NobleMetalWorks
Well-known member
cocoloco said:
Lets talk a walk through the garden of reality, bear with me for just a minute.
Lets first assume the miner is not working for one of the many legitimate mining companies, if he did, he wouldn't be selling any gold. You stated it's the miner you have partnered up with, so lets stick with what you said. I am also going to assume that we are talking about a Male, rather than Female.
So, your "partner" mines the gold, and has done so illegally. I am assuming this because the only gold being minded by individuals is being done so illegally in West African Nations. So your miner friend is breaking the law in his country. Since he is breaking the law it's highly unlikely that he is doing so alone, illegal miners always operate in groups for many reasons but most important are protection and safety, or what little safety can be had. Having someone else around to help you out of a sticky situation is important. Anyway, he's mining illegally which drastically limits his ability to sell to a legitimate buyer. But he has to sell his gold to someone, so usually he would sell to someone in the black market at a huge discount, not because he's being ripped off but because he has no other choice.
The illegitimate buyer most likely has a channel to introduce the gold into the legitimate sale stream, it then ends up at a refinery and sold to a company that has representation in whatever West African country the gold resides in. West Africans do not incur the cost of shipping gold here to the United States, and then sell it to a consumer, that never ever happens. It is purchased, insured, and shipped by the purchasing company to insure it makes it to the US.
There are no middlemen ripping off miners in West Africa, there are however miners who are mining gold illegally, and thus are limited with who they can sell to, and end up selling for far less than the value only because they cannot sell it legitimately.
So far as a middleman is concerned, you can define them as this. ANYONE between the actual miner, and the buyer, is a middleman. That means YOU. If the gold was real, and if you were legitimate, and if your miner was legitimate, and you were making any money off this deal, any at all, that makes you the middleman, or one of them. You are not cutting out "THE" middleman, you have simply cut out some of the middlemen usually involved in a transaction of this nature, and trying to get legitimate gold prices for whatever scam your mining buddy is trying to pull.
I am going to say this again in case you missed my post above. You are either one of two things. You are either a future, potential victim of a scam artist, or you are a scam artist. The gold you think you are offering is either not real and you don't know it, or not real and you are totally clueless. But it's not real. Your deal is not real. Your miner friend is not real. This entire post, and everything you have said, is not real. You have provided NO real information. You have said nothing that would lead me to believe there is any validity to your claim, not even the smallest chance.
If you are legitimate, then I feel bad for you. It will take awhile for you to learn if you are attempting to transact a trade deal as a broker, that every single deal you come across like this is fake. If you are posting honestly then you need to heed my advice. Drop any fantasy that you are going to become a millionaire overnight. I spent years, grinding out a living in international trade, and while I wouldn't give up the experience for the world, I would never do it again, not in the way I was. I sell my own product now, and make a point of avoiding getting drawn into the market again. Also consider that 99.99% of the people who think they can make a living in international trade, end up failing. It's extremely tough and very unforgiving, most people only stick to it a few years before giving it up. If you have the tenacity and intelligence to make a living at it, my hat is off to you.
Scott
goldenchild
Well-known member
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I can always tell these things are scams about 2-2.5 sentences in. I think we should have a thread similar to the language on the forum thread that can be seen as soon as you log in. Title it something like "scammers not welcome", give it an intro and then take all these posts that we have identified as scams and paste them right in there. This way a scammer could clearly see they won't get anywhere (possibly mocked and ridiculed) on this forum and keep it moving saving everyone time and frustration. What do the moderators think about this idea?
NobleMetalWorks
Well-known member
goldenchild said:
I think it's a great idea, something like "scammers will not be tolerated on this forum" etc.
That just might prevent some of the would be thieves.
Scott
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Anonymous
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No offense,but I would have to disagree guys.That simply tells them how not to word there posts.They will take that information and adapt to it.
I think it would be a good Idea, but I doubt, the scammer is interested in reading much on the forum, his goal seems to be to get a quick buck, and many times at someone else’s expense, or even flat out cheat people out of there bread money.
I do not know how you could put all of the posts together on this forum that have been written to help protect members from buying materials that was fraudulent, or was part of some scam, (there has been a lot written over the years), or how you would be able to stop scammers at the door, or even expose every one of them, education helps to protect members, and the forum has done a good job in this, deception can be hard to detect sometimes, and caution and education can help you from being ripped off.
Scott I do like reading your posts when dealing with these guys, you do have a good master of words, and an understanding of this, that is useful to the forum, which can help protect some of our more gullible new members who may get excited and do not think things through, and lose their hard earned money just wishing to buy some material, or think they can get something for less or something for nothing.
If it sounds too good to be true…
If you think you can get something for nothing…
I do not know how you could put all of the posts together on this forum that have been written to help protect members from buying materials that was fraudulent, or was part of some scam, (there has been a lot written over the years), or how you would be able to stop scammers at the door, or even expose every one of them, education helps to protect members, and the forum has done a good job in this, deception can be hard to detect sometimes, and caution and education can help you from being ripped off.
Scott I do like reading your posts when dealing with these guys, you do have a good master of words, and an understanding of this, that is useful to the forum, which can help protect some of our more gullible new members who may get excited and do not think things through, and lose their hard earned money just wishing to buy some material, or think they can get something for less or something for nothing.
If it sounds too good to be true…
If you think you can get something for nothing…
goldenchild
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,809
I would know where to start. Search Scott's posts and find the ones where he tears them a new one :lol:butcher said:
like i said i'm new to this , you guys have given me a bit to digest and now i realize that its not as simple as it seems , i will do some homework and weigh my options before i jump into this venture , thanks for all the great information , peace out .
A
Anonymous
Guest
ROFL....goldenchild said:
eeTHr
Well-known member
mic said:
I was thinking the same thing. I've seen some of these scammer posts where it seems like they are fishing around to try and learn some buzz word lingo which would appear to make them fit in.
Of course, they can never eliminate their own necessity of the configuration of the scam. Even if it sounded somewhat legit in the beginning, they must, at some point, put you at total risk---after they assume that they have gained your trust, one way or another. That's where the terms "confidence game" and "con artist" originated.
Anyone who refines, at any level, gets their material from somewhere, by some method. The con artist must always, at some point, try to operate outside of those usual, common sense methods. One scheme they often employ is to make it seem like their great deal is proceeding along just fine, and they totally trust you of course, but their partner needs to be assured that you are sincere---so if you will just forward some money in advance, to prove that you are trustworthy, then a vast fortune will be yours! Oh boy! The thousands of dollars up front is supposed to seem like a very small amount, compared to the many millions you will ultimately receive! Their aim is to get somebody in the same state as a salivating dog whose nose is one inch away from a juicy steak, if he could just break the chain that's holding him back. All other thoughts are obscured by the feeding frenzy attitude. Another form of gold fever.
I think that those who refine gold soon realize that it's just another element, just another product. We are probably the worst prospects for gold scams that there are!
I like the fact that the forum has grown to have such a well rounded membership that scammers get totally trounced, and we get to learn details like those that SBrown provides us with. Not to mention the information which all the others on here who have vast experience in the gold markets as well as refining, have shared.
The whole thing would be funny, except for the fact that these and other types of scammers have ripped people off for large amounts of money in the past, and are still out there at it.
alden214,
What process do you use now to concentrate the gold and separate it from the rock?
You can get gold concentrated without acids, and you can smelt it, but to refine it at some point acids will be involved.
What process do you use now to concentrate the gold and separate it from the rock?
You can get gold concentrated without acids, and you can smelt it, but to refine it at some point acids will be involved.
