gold plated copper wire

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arthur kierski

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
1,119
Location
são paulo---brazil
i got some gold plated wire and tried to get the foils with nitric---it took a long time and the foils did not come out---it dissolved some of the copper but the foils did not fall as usual ----------
then i took this wire(new batch) (2kilos) and tried to do it with ar----the result was that golden wires fell in the botton of the vessel and the ar solution did not show gold with stannous chloride---- i filtrated the the golden wires from the ar and these golden wires was dissolved with a second ar and gave 33grams of gold yeald----------i need help to know what happened?why the foil was difficult to separate from the wire with nitric? and lastly ,why the wire did not dissolve in the first ar?
note:the wire is not magnetic -----thanks for replies
 
I wonder if the wire is rolled to size after plating leaving a hard burnished surface with no pores for the acid to penetrate?

Did you incinerate before the first try?
 
qst42know--thanks for the reply----i did not incinerate---i also think that the wire have no pores for acid attack-----i received these wire in a bunch(rolled)---i really wonder what happened
 
My feeling is that you dont have a large enough surface area of exposed i presume copper for the nitric to attack,if you want to use nitric melt and grain the wire and try again this should solve that problem.Personally i would strip the wire in cyanide and refine the metal recovered after precipitation but not everyone is happy to use this method due to the dangers.
 
nickvc,i did with cianide also---the yeald was low and one could see a lot of gold that remained in the wire. the best yeald was with the second ar----33grams of gold----very strange wire
 
If you saturate aqua regia solution with base metals the gold will be displaced in solution leaving the solution barren of gold. I'll bet if you had tested the solution early on while it was still reacting you would have had a positive test for the gold. The relatively heavy copper concentration was too much for the aqua regia to hold the gold.

Years ago, we used to digest large lots of hybrid circuits in aqua regia. Big lots, over 100 gallons of acid, we kept adding the circuits until the reactivity of the acid slowed down then we added base metal. The sludge remaining had all of the precious metals in it and the liquid had none. A second, much smaller digestion in aqua regia provided a much smaller solution volume to filter and a relatively high gold content.

You also could have melted the plated wire into a slab and used it to cement out your waste acid, it takes longer but you will get your gold out of the material that way as well. Plus the copper works for you. Unfortunately doing it this way you don't know what was in there to start unless you assay.
 
Arthur, my friend,
I mean that. You're one of the people I would really like to meet. Your persistence and attitude always makes me want to help you. I was very pleased to help you make money with the transistors. I assume you made a bundle. I made a bundle when I used to run them. Also, you're after the money, which, as far as I'm concerned, is the only way to approach this stuff. Apologies to everyone else, but I have never been able to get into this "hobby" thing.

At this point of my understanding, since you have it and don't mind working with it, cyanide is the best way to go on this wire. Don't expect a gold mine. The gold could be very thin. I could easily assay this kind of stuff, you know. Why waste your time and energy on anything when you can know for sure with a $35 assay? It can't cost much to mail me 10 grams. Please pardon the Commercial!

What is the composition of your cyanide gold stripper? Can you detail how you are using it? Is there a nickel layer between the gold and the copper or is it just gold over copper? How much weight do you have? what is the diameter of the wire?

The easiest way to determine the presence of a nickel layer is with a pencil eraser. Slowly remove the gold with the eraser. Use 2 or 3 strokes and then examine it with an eye loupe. Repeat. At some point, you'll cut through the gold and will be able to see the white nickel layer. Go slow or you'll erase the nickel layer. With a nickel layer, the cyanide stripping should work with no problems, unless the layer is very thin, which sometimes happens. With no nickel layer, the cyanide will preferentially go after the copper. In this case, you must overpower the reaction with the oxidant. I can't go further unless I know what you're using. Talk to me.

Chris
 
GSP

Back in the day of my electroplating roots, we stripped gold from brass, copper, and nickel plating using cyanide peroxide.

When I moved on to the jewelery business I found it used exclusively as method of polishing jewelry by stripping a surface layer of gold and leaving a smooth surface finish. The jewelers called it bombing solution, probably because if you let it react too quickly it will erupt from the bucket.

If cyanide doesn't intimidate someone, it's worth trying. Just warm water, peroxide and sodium cyanide.

Opinion?????
 
4metals said:
Just warm water, peroxide and sodium cyanide.
Click to expand...
That's true, but, in my experience, there's more to it than that. When you're doing all sorts of different stuff, every deal is a little bit different. Like everything else in this business, I think you have to develop a feel for seeing what's happening and be able to adjust to it - add a pinch of this or that. The main thing is to get 100% of the gold, which is often easier said than done. In my day, there were a lot of amateurs stripping gold with cyanide, peroxide, and hot water. We made a lot of money buying their "stripped" scrap for scrap copper price or a little higher. Usually, there was gold left on it. The blacker it was, the more gold there was left on it. Of course, we didn't tell them that. I guess I was a bit of a scoundrel in my 20s and 30s.
 
dear gsp,thanks for your kind words-----
the cianide stripper solution i use is bought from a chemical store where i buy most of the chemicals i use(nitric ,hcl naclo3 etcetc--here is alowed)--the cianide stripper is very potent and it dissolves up to 8grams of gold per liter and its cost is 130dollars for a 25liters batch(around 5dollars per liter)--it is made (as i was told) with golpanol as the oxidizing agent---i have some formulae that i obtained from members of the forum,but concluded that it is easier to buy it from the chemical store----
as for the gold plated wire i obtained only 5kilos and will obtain more next year(once a year),so my questioning of the problem was more to learn(when the problem arises again)--as for your assayng some of the material which i obtain,i think it is a good idea(i get many types of diferent scraps) because after the results i could go straight to the killing--not waysting time with experiments
i am studying how to send scrap samples to you in the US,but finding dificulties with customs(brazillian) and with new fedex rules(after the terrorists atempts)
as for money(payment of the assays),i have a nephew in san francisco who does this for me--he buys rh sponge and then send to brazil---so he can pay for the asssays----by the way ,i am trying to find the dealers that sell rh for 25% below spot price(i buy 2 to 4ounces monthly and this would increase my marging of profits in the plating solutions which i make and sell---hoping to hear from you soon
your friend and admirer
Arthur Kierski
 
gsp,with your help with the transistors, i made over 20000 dollars----thanks again----those electric condensers that i wrote yesterday in the other trhead are very very similar in structure---although lazersteve wrote that they are not so rich in gold(i will do the experiment today)
this is just an adendo to you which i forgot to write in my earlier e-mail to you
regards and thanks again
Arthur
 
GSP

You are probably right about the cyanide peroxide leaving gold behind on plated wire. The ends of the wire saw more power and usually plated thicker, stripping usually misses the thicker deposits so you don't over-etch the base material. I remember we used to clean up the stripped parts in a brite dip which cleaned the base metal up nicely.

If Arthur needs copper to cement his waste anyway, I think melting and assay and using the bar to cement the waste will be the easiest route. If he gets plated wire he probably sees danglers and plating hooks too, they won't work with cyanide stripping.

The more types of material you see, the stronger the case is to learn to fire assay!
 
You're right, 4metals. I can't believe that I didn't think about it coming from a plating operation.

Arthur,

Did it come from a plating operation? I wish you could take photos. Is it just small wire in a tangle or is it heavy wire in the shape of hooks. The small wire is probably nickel and gold plated, in a single layer of each. The hooks could have many alternating layers on them.

Then there are danglers, rack nodules, and barrel plating media. Here's an old thread on media.
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1415&hilit=danglers+nodules&start=20
 
Hooks, like danglers see layer over layer of plating, they are used to hang the work, which is attached to the wires you have, to the cathode bar. These are hard to refine because the layers of plating can be gold, silver, copper, nickel, or anything the shop electroplates. Aqua regia is stopped by the layers of silver, nitric is stopped by layers of gold, leaching probably won't get it done either, and since the hooks are steel, melting is out as well.

I have processed large lots of these type hooks by granulating the hooks into tiny pieces, then the acid approach works well. For small quantities of hooks, and danglers too, a smack with a hammer usually will shatter the plating and it will flake off. It is usually very brittle. Crushing it up with a hammer before processing should work for a few pieces. Hooks can be high yield or low yield, it's a crap shoot, it depends on what layers of plating are on the hooks.
 
This was an interesting thread. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1415&hilit=gold+plated+stainless+steel+balls
 

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