Gold stuck in Amalgamite...what a bummer

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I suspect this is nothing more than bismuth. At least at the start. Coincidentally the melt point is listed as 520F the same as pure bismuth.

If it is bismuth it will also pick up all lead/tin solders it comes in contact with as well as any cadmium and who knows what else.

The fantastic claims of this being a kitchen safe process are just madness. The more you use it the worse it will get as the melt point will change with the alloy. At some point resins and plastics will start breaking down adding even more toxins. As the alloy absorbs more PMs the more get left behind becoming less effective as a collector with use.

This isn't something I want anywhere near where I eat. :evil:
 
qst42know - Hi :lol:

In answer to your question – yes…it came with minimal instructions. It was said the amalgamite was to be absorbed in the bone ash cupels, but after TEN cupels and HOURS of natural gas consumption, all I got for my trouble was a warm shop. I don’t know what the problem was…I’m not going to try and figure it out because I know the acid method works all the time!! I could not make the fire assay work at all after many attempts. I’m not saying it can’t work…I’m just saying it doesn’t work for Nolan!! I came to this site and looked up amalgamite in this forum. From what I remember, it is bismuth. If I wind up with a big mess…that’s what I’ve got now. I read somewhere in this forum, nitric will absorb the amalgamite…but that’s been several weeks since I read this, so I’ll have to go find this info again and refresh my memory.

Butcher asked what was in this amalgam…I don’t know…but I guess I’ll be finding out :?:

Appreciate all your input :p
Nolan
 
qst42know - Hi – again :roll:
OOOPS…forgot to notice that there was a page 2 on the forum discussion :oops: What can I say…this is the first forum I’ve ever been on. I set up my vent-a-hood and lead smelter in my shop…and fooled with it in my shop with the vent-a-hood on high!! It smoked like a tar pit when I put the computer edge pieces into the amalgamite! It removed the gold from the copper and most of the copper floated on the surface. However, I think the thing absolutely melted some of the copper. Regardless of the outcome, this has been one more experience!! Even when I melted it down the first time, I don’t think I’d have wanted this stuff in the kitchen any way…things happen…and I agree, I don’t want that happening where I eat :evil:

Thanks a bunch…all your help is greatly appreciated :lol:

Nolan
 
The scrap you treated was it free of solder?

I don't know how bismuth acts in any of the acids but any tin and nitric is going to be a big mess.

This is a two pound batch?

At this point I think debugging your cupel process is going to be the best route. What kind of burner did you try to cupel with, and what kind of flux?
 
I did some checking and bismuth is soluble in hydrochloric acid. HCL is much cheaper without the tin problems of nitric.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth_chloride

If you must resort to acids for this material experiment with some small measured amounts. You could still end upside down recovering this with HCL depending on how much gold you have in your Amalgamite.
 
Hi 8)

I would have come to this forum sooner…but I had to go finance some lights, gas & water for the house here. My wife sure likes these three items…so the “W” word has to interfere with my playtime :lol:

The scrap I treated did have solder involved in it. Yes…a nice big 2-pound batch – before I would pour the amalgamite into the cupels, I would clean off the surface and save the scrapings.

I have tinkered enough with these cupels that I am tinkered out!!!!! :| I would pre-heat them…didn’t work. Tried ‘em cold…didn’t work. The minimum instructions never said anything about flux. My grandmother always said if something sounds too good to be true…

The burners I used were ¾” ID cast iron valves, 4” long. I used two of them because the third one had a bolt hole ear broken off, and the metal that I used to hold up the stainless steel mesh that was used to hold the cupels in place, got hot enough that the surface crawled. On the next batches, I used fire brick…no more worry about melting my stands. The inner surfaces of the smelter got bright red. I think my steel was about to fold over – that’s why I went to the fire brick. I can’t tell you how many hours of natural gas I burned.

I have a piece of the amalgamite soaking in muriatic with chlorine added. I think it’s the 4:1 ratio. It’s been sitting there about 3-4 days…it’s just sitting there. This is the muriatic acid mixture, I could boil it down and get it more concentrated and try that. :?: Would I try it straight or add Clorox?

At this point, I really don’t care if the bismuth ever comes back…ever!!!! It was a fun experiment though…and I did get my lead smelter back, and I can melt some lead and cast some 50 caliber balls for my black-powder carbine.

Thanks for your input,
Nolan
 
Cupeling requires both ample heat and a quantity of oxygen and sometimes a bit of the right flux to get it rolling. Without seeing your set-up it's possible you may have prevented contact with air with to much fire.

HCL usually comes as concentrated already. Heated will help with lots of stirring. Perhaps a fish tank air pump so you can leave it unattended.

Did you "corn flake" your material first? Pouring the molten metal slowly into cold water to expose lots of surface area to the acid first.

Anyway best of luck with this stuff.
 
I have an ample supply of bismuth and have not used it in any of these processes, I really like its low melting point and make a low temp solder with it.

I would just guess and say the lead and bismuth would mix redily, and I would think the lead would protect the metal from HCl, or even HCl with oxidizer like bleach.

if cupling you will need an oxidizing flame (lots of air or oxygen) to oxidize the lead (and I suppose bismuth?), then the bone ash could suck up the lead (and possibly the bismuth?)

if alot of lead and bismuth I wonder if you might melt them at a low temperature and skim off the slag? and treat this in the cupel?

I really dont have expierience here so just guessing.
 
qst42know said:
From this page it seems possible the Parkes process might work. I just wish I could read the rest of it. :x


http://www.jstor.org/pss/111941
Click to expand...

qst42know:

Here's the complete book to download. Those guys were amazingly smart and curious a 100+ years ago. :lol:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ki0nL-JWNGsC&pg=PA461&dq=On+the+Lead-Zinc+and+Bismuth-Zinc+Alloys,+by+A.+Matthiessen+and+M.+von+Bose&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

John
 
qst42know & butcher – Hi :lol:

I’m just played out on the cupeling aspect…if somebody’ll pay the shipping…I’ll package and ship ‘em to you!!! How much heat would I apply to the HCl? The fish tank aerator sounds cool…I’ve got one…with the little device that fits on the end that breaks up the bubbles. I haven’t done anything to the amalgamite as of today. I’ll have to melt it and pour it into cool water before I do the heated HCl. Would a crockpot be hot enough to properly heat the HCl :?: I’ve also heard that amalgamite makes great shot shells…like for 50 caliber balls for a muzzle loader. ..HHHHHMMMMM!!

My smelter only had two burners in it…leaving the center open…so it had access to plenty of air and it had great draw!!! The reason it didn’t get any hotter is because the 3rd burner is missing.

I downloaded both books…I also have 4 other books and have put them on a CD. That way it’s a bit easier reading it from the laptop, go figure. The PC is a hard read…with the back light as bright as it is.

Where do you guys find all these wonderful old books :!: Before doing all of this gold business….20-25 years ago, I read bunches of steam info and built several steam boilers, and have been amazed with what they could do with the little technology they had to do with.

When I can get back to it, I’ll let you how it goes...I've also found a chemist at a church...and college chemistry teacher...what an IQ she has, and gues what...she dictated the same safety precautions you guys have stressed :idea:

Thanks a bunch
Nolan <><
 
I don't know what you are referring to when you say you have a "three burner smelter". Is what you are referring to found on this page?

http://www.johnsongas.com/industrial/frn-solder.asp

These furnaces are made to heat tinsmith "coppers" and excluding air would be good for that use but air is necessary for cupeling.

The air stone from a fish tank likely won't hold up in acid and you would need a short length of 4mm lab glass tubing to bubble in the hot acid.

A crock pot made into a sand bath should work. Put 2" of dry play sand in the bottom of the crock, take the plastic handle off a glass coffee pot and set it in the sand, then fill the crock with more sand most of the way up the sides of the coffee pot. You will need a dish or bowl that fits in the top of the coffee pot the lowest point should be below the mouth of the pot allowing any condensation to drip back in.

I never tried to digest such a large quantity of base metals. Be prepared to change depleted acid many times.

Are you certain you have enough gold in this to justify this recovery?

How many pounds of what kind of plated scrap did you wash in molten bismuth?

Before you pursue this find the yield estimates here on the forum for the type and quantity of scrap you put in before you spend a bunch of money to recover this. You may be better served to cast this metal into some fishing sinkers and call it a day.

Honestly you should take an ounce of this material digest it in a large test tube or small flask and see what you have left.

You aren't going to like this hobby at all if it costs you yet another $50 in chemicals to recover $10 in gold.
 
Three-burners is in reference to the #118 smelter in that article…the one that produces 39,000 BTUs…it looks just like that one but it has a lot more miles on it. The center burner was the one that I left out, which would put it at about 26,000 BTUs…like the others in the picture. In reference to the weight of the edge card components that I put into the amalgamite…I didn’t weigh ‘em…I counted ‘em. However, I will go back and get the box I put these cards in, count them, and see if I can’t get an estimated weight. In fact, I can go to my shed and get some more cards, get them ready and weigh them – then I’ll have an exact weight. I’ve got lots of cards :!:

I thought about the stone in the hot acid, after I’d said that…I do have some glass tubes and some Teflon hose.

The crock pot is no problem…the sand is no problem …the muriatic acid is no problem, I’m in construction work and today I got my first paint job since June or July of last year…YEAH!!!!! :lol:

If this doesn’t work…50 caliber fish weights sound like a wonderful idea!! I will remelt and drop this into cold water...to make the "cornflaking" as you'd previously mentioned. I do plan to do small studies before chunking the whole loaf into the pot. I need to know what to expect before I dive headlong into the project. :idea:

The capacity to learn is only superseded by the desire to learn. The process of learning may cost…as long as it’s not too painful, it’ll be worth it…and common sense and safety precautions will eliminate most of the pain, with the exception of the pain felt in the billfold.

Thanks a bunch…and God bless :lol:
Nolan
 

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