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Thank you stella polaris.

I learn something new every day.
Some days (like again today) I learned I was wrong in what I had been thinking.
That is a good thing, now I know better.
The more times I learn that I am wrong -- the more I learn what is right and the more educated I become on the subject.
The more educated I get on the subject, the more I find out how much I did not know before, and begin to see how much more I still do not know, and how much more there is still out there for me to learn.
It is once I learn that I did not know, or that I was wrong in what I thought, that now my mind is open so that I can begin to learn better...


When I think of Sweden, images of large castle-like banks with large dark rooms stacked full of gold bars and gold coins comes to my mind.

It is hard for me to imagine a swiss bank without seeing gold.
But then again I have very little knowledge about Switzerland or their banks.
Just like it would be hard for me to imagine Fort Knox without stacks of gold bars. Who knows, I could also be wrong about there being gold in Fort Knox vaults, they could just have large dark empty rooms for all I know.
 
If I remember correctly after some research a few weeks ago.
The first paper money linked to metal in a bank, was made in Sweden around 1650 sometime.
Big merchants wrote a a letter declaring that this letter was linked to a certain amount of metal in this and this merchants posession.
And the trading community in this city (Stockholm?) accepted these letters as a method of payment.
This spread fast, due to the ease of transport of paper, comparing to the heavy silver for the most part.
 
And today a digital bank card or credit card is lighter and much easier to carry than the heavy gold.

It is getting to where paper money and coins are becoming obsolete, or the metals in our coins are becoming more valuable than the face values of the coin itself.

It has happened before, where the paper that the money was printed on was worth more used as toilet paper that it held value to buy bread with.
 
Yggdrasil said:
If I remember correctly after some research a few weeks ago.
The first paper money linked to metal in a bank, was made in Sweden around 1650 sometime.
Big merchants wrote a a letter declaring that this letter was linked to a certain amount of metal in this and this merchants posession.
And the trading community in this city (Stockholm?) accepted these letters as a method of payment.
This spread fast, due to the ease of transport of paper, comparing to the heavy silver for the most part.
Click to expand...
Actually, the Knights Templar developed the letter of Credit, so that pilgrims going to the Holy Land were able to convert it back into cash once they arrived at their destination. They also used a form of encryption to prevent the forging of the instrument by others. The are the originators of the modern banking system. Oh, yes, they got to keep the original deposit if you were somehow killed on the way. This goes back to around 1200 ce.
 
butcher said:
And today a digital bank card or credit card is lighter and much easier to carry than the heavy gold.

It is getting to where paper money and coins are becoming obsolete, or the metals in our coins are becoming more valuable than the face values of the coin itself.

It has happened before, where the paper that the money was printed on was worth more used as toilet paper that it held value to buy bread with.
Click to expand...
Before you use your fiat currency as toilet paper, be sure to launder it first, You never know where it has been.
 
That is correct AshesoftheUniverse
Actually, the Knights Templar developed the letter of Credit, so that pilgrims going to the Holy Land were able to convert it back into cash once they arrived at their destination. They also used a form of encryption to prevent the forging of the instrument by others. The are the originators of the modern banking system. Oh, yes, they got to keep the original deposit if you were somehow killed on the way. This goes back to around 1200 ce.
Click to expand...
The first paper money dates back to about year 900 in China. Not much used since it could not be traded, it was more like a bank statement.
The thing that was a first in Sweden, was that it was used as money/currency today, and anyone holding the letter could use it anywhere (at least in that city) for trade.
This was of course when paper was more expensive and hard to come by than today, so the risk of copying it was practically not there.
Besides that, I guess everyone knew eachother, in some respect anyway ;-)
 
rickzeien said:
TemplarCoin the original cryptocurrency.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Somewhere, I have a picture of a Templar coin. I will try to locate it. It shows two knights riding a horse. They took a vow of poverty and couldn't afford a horse for everyone.
Unlike the 'Knights' of today, who likely have their chauffeur drive them around, and strut around their lodges like pimped-out pussn'boots.
 
Yggdrasil said:
If I remember correctly after some research a few weeks ago.
The first paper money linked to metal in a bank, was made in Sweden around 1650 sometime.
Big merchants wrote a a letter declaring that this letter was linked to a certain amount of metal in this and this merchants posession.
And the trading community in this city (Stockholm?) accepted these letters as a method of payment.
This spread fast, due to the ease of transport of paper, comparing to the heavy silver for the most part.
Click to expand...

If I not remember wrong. It was also one of the first cases were they "blanked" and issued papers with no metal behind.
 
Before you use your fiat currency as toilet paper, be sure to launder it first, You never know where it has been.
[/quote]

Perhaps one day its economical to recover cocaine from old fiat bills. :eek:
[/quote]
I'm not concerned so much about the Cocaine as the sweaty behinds it was nestled up against.
 
@ Butcher

At a deeper look there is no logic in gold reserves in Europe. After wwII all gold should be deposit in UK or US "to save it from the evil communist"

All countries have had problem getting it back. France and De Gaulle were first, sending a warship to US in order to get it back.
The Germans were showed 2 or 3 bars when they wanted to make a control of their gold. Norway sold their.

If all gold is in the hands of UK/US the European states have little reserves if a crisis. A kind of blackmail so to say. It actually seems like we are not allowed to have large possessions of gold, other PM and strategic metals.

In Sweden we have V.A.T 25% on PM bars and PM coins making it less attractive as a saving compared to stocks and banks. In Norway it is V.A.T on bars but not on coins. This fact actually makes scrap even more valuable since it is a substitute for Banks, stocks and V.A.T pressured gold.

We are rich on the paper but if you make a simulated economic likvidation of the countries the picture change drastic. Then the population become poorer than the average African. We have only debts and no reserves.

Now they are working hard to make the electronic currency the one and the only. The day that happends we will been totally in the hand of the banks. Gold will then bee some ting very attractive. But if you then can by gold you have to pay V.A.T and as a end consumer you can not get the V.A.T back.

Stockpiling of resources is the safest way too meet a unknown future. Why is it not promoted?
 
I don't think there is vat on valid coins, only older demonetized ones. (In Sweden)

For example it's no vat on US or Canadian gold dollars, but there's vat on French Francs or German Mark.

Göran
 
...Dragons steal gold and jewels...wherever they can find them; and they guard their plunder as long as they live...and never enjoy a brass ring of it
Click to expand...

And that sums up my thoughts on most wealth. I'm comfortable...I could be more comfortable, but I have no interest in guarding a plunder.
 
g_axelsson said:
I don't think there is vat on valid coins, only older demonetized ones. (In Sweden)

For example it's no vat on US or Canadian gold dollars, but there's vat on French Francs or German Mark.

Göran
Click to expand...

Thx Göran.
It seems I missed some ting. They seems dropped the V.A.T om gold coins but not on Silver coins

At Tavex Sweden the price of today for a Maple leaf 1 oz silver is 251 sek in Sweden. In Tavex Norway the same coin cost 184 nok.

In Sweden Maple leaf 1 oz gold 14 848 sek and in Norway 14031 nok.

Actually many Sweds buy silver coins when they are in Norway. Some even smuggle them to Sweden and make a profit when selling them there..
 
Some countries dropped the VAT on gold bullion and gold currency because of the number of pyramid scams going on.

The same thing has happened with IT processors and RAM shipments over a certain currency value too.
 
Buy the way. Tavex selling 50 trillion Zimbawe dollar banknotes for those wanting to invest in fiat currency. :D

https://tavex.se/product/presentask/
 
anachronism said:
Some countries dropped the VAT on gold bullion and gold currency because of the number of pyramid scams going on.

The same thing has happened with IT processors and RAM shipments over a certain currency value too.
Click to expand...

Had totally missed it. Must have happend when i lived broad.

I know it was a lot of scams claming back V.A.T on gold "exported". But what type of pyramid scams was it?
 
Stella Polaris said:
Stockpiling of resources is the safest way too meet a unknown future. Why is it not promoted?
Top
Click to expand...

I think preppers are keeping the World Economy going. Everyone is preparing their own hidey-hole.
China is especially the beneficiary. Most camping and Survival gear is made there.
 
Notice how china and India value gold.

Gold is limited, we only have so much of it available and so many would like to own it, and besides its usefulness in industry and jewelry, it is always going to hold some value, if nothing else as a doorstop, or paperweight until we need bread.

So there will always be someone who would like to have it.

If we divided all of the gold in the world between every person in the world they would each have less gold than the weight of some coin that was minted in gold, if a man held an ounce of gold he would be considered very rich among that population.

Buring an ounce of gold in the ground for some future hard time, for your future, maybe a silly idea or it may not be as foolish as it sounds, only you can make that decision.
 

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