hcl/cl question

[steeranoff]

If the hcl/cl solution using clorox which is 5-10% free chlorine
will process a cat in 3-3day batches heated. Would using
pool cleaner chlorine which is 90% free chlorine do the job
faster? in less batches? Just brainstorming.
thanks,
steve

 

[lazersteve]

Reaction time for extraction with HCl-Cl varies with temperature, material exposure to the solvent, and solvent concentration. I have read articles and/or patents that prescribe 60C-90C as the optimum temperature range for the reaction.

The amount of chlorine generated is not as important as the exposure of the material surface to the chlorine. Any excess chlorine generated is lost as a vapor once the solution is saturated.

In my opinion the optimum set up would be to periodically pipe chlorine gas ( from memory - the patent stated 55mL per hour per liter of HCl was the best rate of chlorine introduction) into the warm HCl solution. The gas should enter the solution under the material through a frit or similar means to disperse it throughout the solution in an even manner across the surface of the material.

In the methods I demonstrate on my Platinum DVD the reaction conditions were not optimized. I was merely demonstrating the use of HCl and Clorox to extract the PMs from the cats with a method that requires little attention and produced acceptable, repeatable results.

I'll try to find the patent and post it.

Steve

 

[steeranoff]

Thanks, Steve.
I still don't understand how to know when a batch is done.
Is there something visible to look for?
thanks,
steve r.

 

[lazersteve]

Steve,

A batch is done when one of these conditions occurs:

1) The solution no longer dissolves any more PMs (verify with color, stannous spot tests, and DMG).

2) The material no longer yields PMs ( verify by testing a sample with fresh solution).

The first method is the one to start with as it can be performed while the solution is still reacting. Siphon out a few drops of the solution and test with stannous and DMG. Perform this test periodically throughout the reaction. When the test no longer shows an increase in PMs, it's time to process it. The color of the solution is an indicator of how much PMs it contains, the darker the more dissolved PMs.

Once you have reached this point you can test a sample of the scrap with fresh solvent to see if you get any more PMs, if the sample yields more PMs then process the lot again.

Once you get an idea of the yields to expect form each type of scrap, you can instinctively gauge the end point. Don't rely 100% on instincts as some types of scrap can fool you. Always test.

To get an idea of how to judge the end point of the extraction reaction perform this simple experiment:

1) Get a tea bag and a coffee cup of cold water ( remove the staple if one is present on the teabag).
2) Microwave the tea bag in the cup of water for 1 minute and stir.
3) Pour off the hot tea and note the color.
4) Refill the cup with cold water and place the used tea bag in the cold water.
5) Microwave for another minute, then stir.
6) Note the color of the resulting tea produced.
7) Repeat steps 3-6 until the water no longer changes color.
8) Typically three hot extractions will be enough to remove 95% of the tea from the leaves.
9) The fourth and subsequent extractions will produce some color, but it will be more like dirty water, not tea.

Now take the tea you have made and combine all of the dark colored liquid extracts.

Place these in a small saucepan and turn the stove top on medium. As the liquid evaporates note the color at one minute intervals. You will observe that the color darkens as the solution volume decreases. This is because the concentration of tea extract in the liquid is increased as the volume of liquid decreases.

Don't evaporate to dryness or you may ruin the saucepan!

Once you understand the basic principles outlined above you should better understand extraction chemistry and concentration principles as they relate to PM recovery.

Steve

 

[steeranoff]

Thanks, Steve!
It seems so simple now that you've explained it.
But I was looking for a sign that wasn't there.
Thanks again,
steve r.

 

[Palladium]

Well I’ve heard a lot of different explanations about refining since I’ve been on this forum, but I think that’s the first time I have ever refined and made tea at the same time. ROTFL

Where can I get the dvd on this one. Lol
Good explanation Steve. I to would like to see that patent if can find it.

 

[butcher]

I want sugar with my tea,
as I boil it it makes syrup, and a crystal precipitant forms when cool, but adding water this will dissolve these crystals, and my tea is all liquid again soluble, and if I dissolve more sugar to sweeten it more there comes a point where my tea gets saturated and will not hold the sugar and I have a white precipitant,I don't want cold tea, so I heat it up and guess what happens, my white precipitant dissolves, and if I sit my cup in a cold place for a while the white stuff will precipitate again.
well while I have a cup of tea,
maybe I should use the empty teabag to put my metal powders in and refine metal tea, it may act as a filter?