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Randy: Just getting ready to sign off and thought I'd try the forum one more time. I'll play with your suggestion, altho' it's 3 above right now. Phill
 
Randy / Butcher:

Irons in a post back in 2007 said that he would take the gold precipitates and wash them in Hcl and then in ammonium hydroxide. Two or three times more so that the amm hyd would wash out all traces of silver chloride.

Also, Ammen said that a few drops of amm hyd in a solution derived from black sands leached with A/R would drop out any iron.

Any thoughts on this ? Doggone shipping and hazmat fees are over the hill. That is why I thought about boiling down ammonia from store bought stuff.

If you will send me a figure for the hydrazine, ( including shipping this time ) I will post haste funds to you.

My pipes froze three days ago. Wind chill at bout -18. First time in 15 years. How is your weather ? Phill
 
for silver regular household ammonia should be fine, and I dont know about you black sand concentrate but here I woulld not expect that much silver,I expect he was using it so silver if any would release the gold.
maybe IRON'S will see this and enlighten us both on the subject
 
Butcher: There is some silver and some lead in this ore. I've never found mercury in this bench, but have picked up some when dredging this creek.

From about 1 1/2 miles south of here to about ten or twelve miles north of here - panning on the Hungry River - from about 1895 to about 1945 a prospector spent about fifty years digging and testing. He found that lead, silver and gold ran together, What quantities I can only guess. There is a lead mine not far from here where Johnny Reb dug their ore and cast bullets. The mine is closed off because of housing and I've dispatched some big rattlers in that area. There is a tremendous amount of history in these mountains.

Hope that Irons catches that about the silver. Oh yeah, black sand in this bench is about a teaspoon to the 5-gal bucket. Lots of quartz, tho' ,,,,,,Phill
 
now this is not about your ore but when I process electronics and have lead , silver and gold in soution of HCl with a strong Oxidizer(bleach, nitric, H2O2, whatever) then silver lead and gold will dissolve and be soluble, (although silver and lead does not disolve well in Hcl) (it somewhat disolves)(and it can also be hard to get the gold to disolve because they dont disolve easy but oxidize and protect themselves from disolving and can make it hard to get the gold out of it)
after disolved and when I boil out my oxidizer adding Hcl to keep wet the last boil, I will add a coulple of drops of sulfuric acid ( this will help lead precipitate out later , then when water added to dilute the cloride solution silver and lead will precipitate if let sit 24 hours a little table salt to make sure all silver drops as silver chloride,the gold chloride will stay disolved untill you use a precipitant to precipitate it, decant gold chloride liquid from powder of silver and lead, now wash the silver lead chloride's in filter, they can be seperated in boiling hot water which makes lead slightly soluble but silver will not be soluble and stay as powder, the silver powder will be whitish, but turn violet to gray black in sunlight.
hope this helps some,
 
Thanks Butcher: I am familiar with the use of sulfuric to gas away the lead on the last boil.

Every post refers to the ppt as powder. Am I missing the boat somewhere, because after I dry my ppts' before smelting, it is always in a granular form. No matter how much I grind it down. In the vernacular of everyone, is granular the same as powder ? I've just printed out your post so I can play with it in the lab.

This to Randy and Butcher - would you believe that after below zero three days ago, it is now 72. The time is now 2:12 pm. Wow !!!

Phill
 
Randy:

Ok, I get the drift. I just read it wrong.

Butcher:

I guess powder and granular could be one and the same, depending on final grind rate. Semantics, they always get in the way.

Thanks guys, Phill

Just came aacross this little ditty. It seems, a few miles from here, a fellow ( friend of mine ) sort of, was drilling for water for his new home. About fory feet or so up comes this nugget of about 2 1/2 ozs. So what does he do, stop all construction puts up a fence and starts digging a shaft. He doesn't know me or anybody else for that matter anymore. No disrespect meant, but I do hope it is a dry hole. HA ! HA !
 
Butcher Serves him right for his anti-social attitude. Gold does funny things to people.

Butcher /Randy:

What does this mean ?

HAucl4


Phill
 
Randy/Butcher:

I think I have this figured out.

Wash the ppt's in an hcl solution and then rinse with an ammonia solution. The hcl solution cleans out the remaining silver and other junk and the ammonia ( being a base ) neutralizes the acid. Then as Irons' stated - repeat the whole procedure twice more. It seems to make sense when comparing with the procedures that I've used these past two years.

However, a question arises. Since ammonia and sodium hydroxide are both bases, can sodium hydroxide be used as the neutralizer instead of the ammonia.

Butcher-you are the chemist - what do your think ? Is there something about the ammonia that makes it a better neutralizer than sodium hydroxide ? Phill
 
HCL, water, water, ammonia, water, water.

HCL removes traces of base metals and does not remove silver. The ammonia is not to neutralize acids it dissolves and removes traces of silver. If you do these rinses hot you remove any traces of lead.
 
no I am not a chemist, just have been studying this refining for few years, it seems, to understand it, we should Know the basic principles which do involve chemistry, so I have been struggling to teach myself the chemistry of it,
qst42know is right on with his answer.
ammonia Hydroxide water is a weak base and would if mixed with HCl acid , would neutralize it to a salt of Ammonium Chloride, but it would take about 5 times as much ammonium hydroxide as HCL.
but that is not the purpose here as quest42Know stated.
 
As far as just neutralizing goes, you could also use
sodium carbonate (soda ash),
sodium bicarbonate (baking soda),
calcium carbonate, or calcium hydroxide (both forms of lime).

Or even the potassium variaties of the above.
(although I have no experiance with the potassium)
Randy
 
Qst/Randy/Butcher:

Just printed all your replies and will mess around tomorrow ( Wed.) Much, much appreciate ---- Phill

That cat with the drill is down at the point where the nugget has come up. He is being friendly with me now, because he says he can trust me. Oh well,------
 
Randy, Butcher, Qst:

I too was going to ask the same question. Phill

Doggone, but it is wind chill about 12 below again. There go the pipes again. How is it up in the Northwest ? Of course, your winters are a darn site longer than mine. Brought my dog home from the vets yesterday, wow do they make their money. But, it is still cheaper than spending on some broad. And animals take you for what you are. Great life. Phill
 

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