HCL/Peroxide refining

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J.Najam

Well-known member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2023
Messages
214
Hello everyone,

I've got a plan I want to share, however there may be some gaps which I cant seem to click so maybe sharing it out with you people here could do it for me. I have already wasted a kg of ram sticks thinking I could recover it all using a regular DIY sluice box, but to my dismay and factors I had not anticipated, I ended up losing a major chunk of it. So this is what my plan for the rest of the batches, in short is :

1, Separate Ic chips from Ramsticks.
2, Incinerate in a DIY furnace.
3, Let it cool, and in the meantime, I peel off the skin platings from the sticks using a solder Iron.
4, After chips have cooled down, crush into powder and sieve, then dip them into water with some jet dry.
5, Pull away any magnetics that are present.
6, Wash the powder in a nylon fine mesh until no more ash can be seen and no material is lost
7, Run them by in an underflow sluice.
8, Re-run the material thoroughly until no more particles are detected.
9, Pull the concentrated sediment settled into the tunnel with a snuffer bottle.
10, Treat the concentrates and the peelings with boiling 33% HCL and 30% peroxide ( manual increments/ separatory funnel)
11, Once all dissolved => filter => Add SMB => Drop gold.
12, I'm remained with the HCL peroxide solution now.

A little help needed here :
1, how do I detect for the minute bonding wire particles in water knowing that some of it can definitely flow away?
2, when I add SMB to the solution to what extent can will the peroxide have been neutralized?
3, Should I treat the neutralization process for both of these separately like HCL with baking soda or should I add directly the NaOH flakes and it would neutralize them both off completely?

Thanks in advance for your time to read it out :)
 
Hello everyone,

I've got a plan I want to share, however there may be some gaps which I cant seem to click so maybe sharing it out with you people here could do it for me. I have already wasted a kg of ram sticks thinking I could recover it all using a regular DIY sluice box, but to my dismay and factors I had not anticipated, I ended up losing a major chunk of it. So this is what my plan for the rest of the batches, in short is :

1, Separate Ic chips from Ramsticks.
2, Incinerate in a DIY furnace.
3, Let it cool, and in the meantime, I peel off the skin platings from the sticks using a solder Iron.
4, After chips have cooled down, crush into powder and sieve, then dip them into water with some jet dry.
5, Pull away any magnetics that are present.
6, Wash the powder in a nylon fine mesh until no more ash can be seen and no material is lost
7, Run them by in an underflow sluice.
8, Re-run the material thoroughly until no more particles are detected.
9, Pull the concentrated sediment settled into the tunnel with a snuffer bottle.
10, Treat the concentrates and the peelings with boiling 33% HCL and 30% peroxide ( manual increments/ separatory funnel)
11, Once all dissolved => filter => Add SMB => Drop gold.
12, I'm remained with the HCL peroxide solution now.

A little help needed here :
1, how do I detect for the minute bonding wire particles in water knowing that some of it can definitely flow away?
2, when I add SMB to the solution to what extent can will the peroxide have been neutralized?
3, Should I treat the neutralization process for both of these separately like HCL with baking soda or should I add directly the NaOH flakes and it would neutralize them both off completely?

Thanks in advance for your time to read it out :)
HCl/Peroxide, may turn out to be a bit weak for bonding wires.
Better with AR for that.
After you wash off most of the ashes and the larger magnetic stuff it might be wise to incinerate again to be sure no more Carbon is present.

Read the posts from Patnor and Kurtak regarding this, they have done some really good posts on this.
 
HCl/Peroxide, may turn out to be a bit weak for bonding wires.
Better with AR for that.
After you wash off most of the ashes and the larger magnetic stuff it might be wise to incinerate again to be sure no more Carbon is present.

Read the posts from Patnor and Kurtak regarding this, they have done some really good posts on this.
Oh sure, I'll find their posts. How do we re-incinerate? This sounds tricky...
 
Oh sure, I'll find their posts. How do we re-incinerate? This sounds tricky...
No you just incinerate again to be sure all Carbon is burnt off.
It should be whitish grey when finished.

Carbon has a bad habit of grabbing your Gold out of the solution,
and that is the reason it is used as collector when leaching industrially.
 
I guess since we can only judge it by the outer appearance, how about I incinerate it to the whitish grey finish in my first step only?
Read the whole threads about refining IC from Kurtak and Patnor.
They have done it and described it in detail.
The reason it is done is that one usually do not manage to incinerate all in the first step.
When crushing and gravity separating before the last roasting/incinerating one has less powder to treat.
But it is your call mate, as long as there are black reidue it will be unnecessary losses.
 
May I request you to please share any video link where I can find this? Im really unable to understand how Im supposed to incinerate again the fine powder I just sieved and washed?

What will be the result.. what will it look like?

Thanks
 
May I request you to please share any video link where I can find this? Im really unable to understand how Im supposed to incinerate again the fine powder I just sieved and washed?

What will be the result.. what will it look like?

Thanks
Search the forum and read it, there are some pictures too.

You are not suggesting that we should do your work and studies for you?

Just so you can get started I did a search for you, read it all!

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-inside-chips-black-flatpacks-not-cpu.11827/post-115857
 
May I request you to please share any video link where I can find this? Im really unable to understand how Im supposed to incinerate again the fine powder I just sieved and washed?

What will be the result.. what will it look like?

Thanks
This guy is a YouTube creator that I watched that has several videos on what you are doing. He putsLow pressure air to the incineration to take chips to white ash and get rid of carbon.
 
Wow!!
This guy is a YouTube creator that I watched that has several videos on what you are doing. He puts Low pressure air to the incineration to take chips to white ash and get rid of carbon.
Omegageek! I've seen this guy's videos, how come I never came across this one? Well I really appreciate it! Thanks

I'll keep checking the video and the link shared by @Yggdrasil. Maybe that'll help me with a total combined assistance.
 


Hello again everyone,

May I know if the Gas Absorption Unit (GAU) shown here acts the same as a scrubber? The concept of a scrubber here on this forum is indifferent to this one as can be seen. In fact mentions on the forum are more safe to practice, but what of this on the other hand as well which enforces me to ask questions and clarify the concerns...

Please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere...
  1. HCl + h202 produces chlorine gas. If the gas travels from the reaction vessel to the GAU attached to the same as shown in the video it creates hypochlorous acid?
  2. What may have been used here in the GAU at all, lets suppose if the solution was to neutralize the releasing gasses; NaOH, soda ash ( sodium carbonate), water, distilled water?
  3. I can only guess that the neck opening of the reaction vessel may be sealed with rubber cork with a pipe a centered and attached to it. Would the receiving unit, the GAU also have to be sealed the same way, or is it supposed to be loosely open or full open?
  4. What makes of the solution in the GAU? Is it reusable or non-usable?
  5. Is it by any means safe for long term small scale operations?

If I may have missed out anything or am incorrect about anything, please enlighten me with your knowledge. :)
 


Hello again everyone,

May I know if the Gas Absorption Unit (GAU) shown here acts the same as a scrubber? The concept of a scrubber here on this forum is indifferent to this one as can be seen. In fact mentions on the forum are more safe to practice, but what of this on the other hand as well which enforces me to ask questions and clarify the concerns...

Please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere...
  1. HCl + h202 produces chlorine gas. If the gas travels from the reaction vessel to the GAU attached to the same as shown in the video it creates hypochlorous acid?
  2. What may have been used here in the GAU at all, lets suppose if the solution was to neutralize the releasing gasses; NaOH, soda ash ( sodium carbonate), water, distilled water?
  3. I can only guess that the neck opening of the reaction vessel may be sealed with rubber cork with a pipe a centered and attached to it. Would the receiving unit, the GAU also have to be sealed the same way, or is it supposed to be loosely open or full open?
  4. What makes of the solution in the GAU? Is it reusable or non-usable?
  5. Is it by any means safe for long term small scale operations?

If I may have missed out anything or am incorrect about anything, please enlighten me with your knowledge. :)

We can't see how this is connected, so it is hard to say.
The liquid is most likely NaOH solution, but much too shallow for proper scrubbing, on the other hand what this reaction produces is a mix of O2 water vapor and maybe some Chlorine gas. So the need for scrubbing is not very high.
If you do it right there will not be a need for scrubbing at all.
It should not be boiled, because the Peroxide will decompose faster and the Chlorine will not stay in the liquid.
 
If you do it right there will not be a need for scrubbing at all.
What exactly do you refer to as 'do it right'?
It should not be boiled, because the Peroxide will decompose faster and the Chlorine will not stay in the liquid.
I aim to heat it a little so what would you recommend in that case? I intend to do so in order to speed up the reaction but in theory, also increase the strength of the solution to try and dissolve the little amount of IC bond wires although I've read here that HCL peroxide no matter how strong their concentration, tends to not dissolve the IC wires.

In fact it leads me to think over another thing that nowadays HCL peroxide has seen better recovery of PGMs from solutions than AR from solutions containing hardened gold. SO how does the same not work on wires? Its hard to understand given both are in their good solid form anyways.
So the need for scrubbing is not very high
I also plan to use the same for nitric or AR should I have to use any... If I have to enlarge the GAU would it work the same?

And is there any place where I could specifically learn what solution is required in each GAU for the neutralizing of XYZ gas?
 
What exactly do you refer to as 'do it right'?

I aim to heat it a little so what would you recommend in that case? I intend to do so in order to speed up the reaction but in theory, also increase the strength of the solution to try and dissolve the little amount of IC bond wires although I've read here that HCL peroxide no matter how strong their concentration, tends to not dissolve the IC wires.

In fact it leads me to think over another thing that nowadays HCL peroxide has seen better recovery of PGMs from solutions than AR from solutions containing hardened gold. SO how does the same not work on wires? Its hard to understand given both are in their good solid form anyways.

I also plan to use the same for nitric or AR should I have to use any... If I have to enlarge the GAU would it work the same?

And is there any place where I could specifically learn what solution is required in each GAU for the neutralizing of XYZ gas?
If you do not overheat it and have a lid/Glass plate that will keep the gases in until their job is done the release of Chlorine will go slow enough that most of it will be consumed in the process.
When that is said for bonding wires and other solid Gold, AR is recommended. HCl/Bleach and HCl/Peroxide lack the potency and speed that AR have.
Why are you using the abbreviation GAU, it is the first time I have seen it, so it is not one of the ones we recommend.
Use scrubber, because that is basically what it is.
There are many threads on the topic of scrubbers and fume hoods.
It is there, read them they are quite informative.
 
What exactly do you refer to as 'do it right'?

I aim to heat it a little so what would you recommend in that case? I intend to do so in order to speed up the reaction but in theory, also increase the strength of the solution to try and dissolve the little amount of IC bond wires although I've read here that HCL peroxide no matter how strong their concentration, tends to not dissolve the IC wires.

In fact it leads me to think over another thing that nowadays HCL peroxide has seen better recovery of PGMs from solutions than AR from solutions containing hardened gold. SO how does the same not work on wires? Its hard to understand given both are in their good solid form anyways.
Can you please give examples?
Pt need concentrated "boiling" AR to dissolve in any reasonable manner.
Rhodium is only sparingly soluble in AR if it is very fine, and Iridium not at all in any practical manner.
Even worse with the other methods like HCl/Bleach or HCl/ peroxide.
Industrially when treating ore , they use high pressure leaching with HCl/ Cl.

Pd is easy though.

I also plan to use the same for nitric or AR should I have to use any... If I have to enlarge the GAU would it work the same?

And is there any place where I could specifically learn what solution is required in each GAU for the neutralizing of XYZ gas?
 
If you do not overheat it and have a lid/Glass plate that will keep the gases in until their job is done the release of Chlorine will go slow enough that most of it will be consumed in the process.
Understood
When that is said for bonding wires and other solid Gold, AR is recommended. HCl/Bleach and HCl/Peroxide lack the potency and speed that AR have.
I don't ahve any Nitric available on hand. DO you recommend to just boil in HCl then to remove major impurities, then proceed to direct melting instead of the HCl peroxide dissolve I was after?

Why are you using the abbreviation GAU, it is the first time I have seen it, so it is not one of the ones we recommend.
It was only being used in lieu of the video I shared to clear the concept, my apologies.

There are many threads on the topic of scrubbers and fume hoods.
It is there, read them they are quite informative.
Yes I see there are, have read many, not all. Still going through them daily for a thorough understanding.
I also plan to use the same for nitric or AR should I have to use any
This isn't in practice right now, but would be soon. You think the same process from the video should work fine or a proper scrubber is recommended?

Thanks for your time sir!
 
Understood

I don't ahve any Nitric available on hand. DO you recommend to just boil in HCl then to remove major impurities, then proceed to direct melting instead of the HCl peroxide dissolve I was after?


It was only being used in lieu of the video I shared to clear the concept, my apologies.


Yes I see there are, have read many, not all. Still going through them daily for a thorough understanding.

This isn't in practice right now, but would be soon. You think the same process from the video should work fine or a proper scrubber is recommended?

Thanks for your time sir!
In these threads about building your own scrubber/ fume hood there is schematics for a setup that uses an e-ductor vacuum system and just glass bottles that draw the gases through. In this setup one can use as many or few bottles one want and also have different solution in the bottles.

Something like this:
Vacuum scrubber.PNG
 
In these threads about building your own scrubber/ fume hood there is schematics for a setup that uses an e-ductor vacuum system and just glass bottles that draw the gases through. In this setup one can use as many or few bottles one want and also have different solution in the bottles.

Something like this:
View attachment 56709
Ah, yes

I'm trying to understand the whole concept behind it though. It would really make it easy for me to know how exactly it all works.
 
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