*Help* Johnson Matthey Kilobar Fails Ultrasound

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Typically when the bars are W-filled they will weigh light and this is almost always done on the LBMA bank bars where there is a plus or minus on the 12.5 kg allowance and the counterfeiter can CNC out the non stamped side and fill them. I've never seen it done on kilobars but it would not surprise me one bit. Sintered tungsten is a royal pain to get to full theoretical density so the dimensions would have to either be slightly off or the bar would have to weigh slightly less. Most blocks of sintered tungsten that I've seen have been in the 18-18.8 g/cc range. Even rhenium doesn't usually get fully theoretically dense from powder metallurgy and it's much softer and easier to compact.

Arc cast tungsten is basically nonexistent. They could use rhenium as "cheaper-than-gold" substitute or a W/Re alloy to nail the density. It would not surprise me as if you have means to afford tampering with a big bank bar, you have the money to commit to proper forgery.

I would go with accurate weighing, checking density and dimensions, measuring conductivity/heat transfer. That would probably manage 99.99% of the fakes out there.

On the more enthusiastic side of things, just heating the bar to slightly below the melting point will tell the tale if it's been cut. They have different coefficients of expansion and the thing will literally come apart at the seams. 4N gold can be heated and cooled with no ill effects provided it is only in contact with a noncontaminating clean surface (C, SiO2, etc.). It may develop a patina if there's notable Fe/Pd contamination in there, which probably happens more often than not.

Of course bending/shearing/drilling are no better than melting.
 
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Typically when the bars are W-filled they will weigh light and this is almost always done on the LBMA bank bars where there is a plus or minus on the 12.5 kg allowance and the coin can CNC out the non stamped side and fill them. I've never seen it done on kilobars but it would not surprise me one bit. Sintered tungsten is a royal pain to get to full theoretical density so the dimensions would have to either be slightly off or the bar would have to weigh slightly less. Most blocks of sintered tungsten that I've seen have been in the 18-18.8 g/cc range. Even rhenium doesn't usually get fully theoretically dense from powder metallurgy and it's much softer and easier to compact.

Arc cast tungsten is basically nonexistent. They could use rhenium as cheap or a W/Re alloy to nail the density and it would not surprise me as if you have means to afford tampering with a big bank bar, you have the money to commit to proper forgery.

I would go with accurate weighing, checking density and dimensions, measuring conductivity/heat transfer. That would probably manage 99.99% of the fakes out there.

On the more enthusiastic side of things, just heating the bar to slightly below the melting point will tell the tale if it's been cut. They have different coefficients of expansion and the thing will literally come apart at the seams. 4N gold can be heated and cooled with no ill effects provided it is only in contact with a noncontaminating clean surface (C, SiO2, etc.). It may develop a patina if there's notable Fe/Pd contamination in there, which probably happens more often than not.

Of course bending/shearing/drilling are no better than melting.
O yes, they are about.
 

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I notice this thread comes up when someone searches for gold testing on search engines now. So I wanted to update the thread because I feel there is still too much confusion. Consider what I'm writing here to be said with 100% confidence, and simply study the physics if there is any disbelief.

-Gold dealers have no clue what they're talking about. Reputation is important to decrease the probability of being defrauded, but you should always assume you have received a fake until proven otherwise. I have met at least one vault custodian who spends all his day in the vault and literally has no clue why his testing methodology is flawed. Gold dealers are not physicists or engineers and usually are the type without the mental capacity to understand the physics. I'm sorry that's extremely harsh, but I see all kinds of misinformation and youtube videos on this topic and nobody is doing anything to correct them (the one exception being SilverBullion in Singapore -- they actually have one good youtube video on this topic and they are the only dealers I know who test themselves and do so correctly).

-Buy recent 1 kilogram RCM kilobars if you can, because they are extremely testable by all methodologies I will mention and I have never had any ambiguous results. They have a very smooth back and parts of the front are smooth which allows you get random samples for ultrasound (later). I cannot say the same about other refiners. Maybe others can. Stay the f*ck away from old bars and especially JM.

-XRF (XRay Fluorescence) devices are totally useless for all intents and purposes because they negligibly penetrate the material surface. A non 9999 Au reading will confirm that you have a fake with 100% probability as someone has done a bad job of plating whatever you have, however a 9999 Au reading alone is insufficient. If you don't have access to one of these pricey devices, it is of no consequence to simply skip this test.

-(Prerequisite) Measure the weight using an accurate scale, that is accurate to the 250 milligram, but can deal with 1000g without getting into the nonlinear or damage zone. RCM kilobars are well known for coming out to ~1000.5 grams (your scale should report anything between 1000.0g and 1001.0g). A fake will probably put in too much or too little. This test can give red flag, but otherwise you continue on...

-(First real test) Archimedes density test. You are measuring the buoyancy force of the displaced water after you use string to suspend a gold bar in a tub of water sitting on a scale that has been zero'd before submersion. You can lookup the equations and derive a formula by which the volume cancels out, giving you the ratio of density of the material to water, which you will calculate, and then compare to what gold should be. Even with a cheap kitchen scale, if you can minimize the string used to suspend the bar, you should get to within 5% of the specific gravity and thus density. At this point, you now know that you either have tungsten or some other alloy or non-homogenous combination of material giving the same density as gold, or something that cannot possibly be gold, or something that has tiny air pockets (this was my original concern in this thread, 3 years ago!) but *might* still be gold. I am still not sure if old pouring processes did that, thus why I claim you're best to not risk this and just buy the RCM kilobars if you can.

-(Second real test) Ultrasound + calipers. You can either use an A-line scan device which is just a thickness measurement device usually used for pipes/tracks/etc, or you can use a B-scan defect imager (phased array; same physics as used in medical imaging). The former costs a couple hundred USD on Amazon and the latter will run you between $10k - $120k, yet another reason why I recommend the A-line-based thickness gauges as they will report the first significant reflection. If the material is non-homogenous (tungsten inserts) or homogenous (tungsten, unknown alloy), you are going to know ! If you are very sophisticated, you can attempt to do signal processing on the A-line reflection to determine if any anomaly is something like an air gap. First I start on the backside, set the sound velocity expected to that of gold (3240 m/s) and then measure the reported thickness continuously. The thickness is not constant through the bar, so keep this in mind. What you are looking for is to not see variation by more than 0.5 mm as you move the probe all along the back, left to right and up and down. Then go to the front side. Take all the points without texture that you can. Then measure all of these using calipers. You should be getting the correct thickness to within 0.2mm for RCM bars which is about 2-3% error. Then you can try the beveled parts without too much texture and you should get accurate readings for those spots as well.

We do not know of any material that has the same sound velocity as gold AND the same density as gold. So if you are good so far, then you have real gold. On RCM bars this will have been the case by now. If you are truly paranoid, or got values a little out of the range expected (for example density perhaps within 5% but not 2%, and thickness within 7% but not 3% -- although this already is certainly gold still), you can proceed with one more:

-(Third real test) Through-material conductivity. This is also known as Eddy Current Testing. Recent devices from Sigma claim they get at least a few mm of penetration. The physics suggests it should be on the order of 1 mm, so it's hard to know for sure if they can do what they claim. I believe the truth is about half of what they report in their manual but this is still more than enough to verify deep into gold kilobars (multiple mm on each side). Do NOT use the older devices which produce a weaker field and are only a one-sided coil -- those are surely only giving surface conductivity.

Nowadays many dealers will happily show you the result on their Sigma or use one of the surface wands and leave it at that. That's a good starting point but really make sure you have Archimedes + Ultrasound done, and let the Sigma bulk-ECM (Metalytics Pro SKU only) be your paranoia friend.

In case someone somewhere has figured out how to mimic gold density + sound velocity (not happening), it is certainly the case that mimicing gold density + gold sound velocity + gold conductivity is impossible.

The physics suggests you could also do a heat conductivity test, however I have not yet seen an instrument that can account for the non-rectangular shape of these ingots, so such instrument would have to be 3D-surface aware and complement measurements with model. I have considered developing such a device based on fiducial imaging and thermocouple array and a software that would go with it to compare theoretical to actual, however I am not sure that the market would be big enough for this. If someone has already developed or knows of such a device, I would really like to know more about it please.

I hope this helps someone, somewhere.
 
I forgot to mention, Prerequisite + 1st + 2nd test above can be done for $200 one-time equipment cost. So nobody has any excuse. It takes about 15 minutes to do it properly. It drives me absolutely nuts that this is esoteric knowledge but hopefully we can change that. I hate to think how many fakes are out there.
 
The method measures the density with high accuracy: if the density is below 19.3 g/ cm3 for sure something is wrong, if you measure 19.3 is not sure is gold ( it could be even *rhenium filled other than). He measured 18.5 so something is wrong. I did not say that "if you measure 19.3 go cm3 is gold for sure"
In case I didn't scare readers enough, to this day I still believe there is a very non-zero probability that I indeed had an insert and that the only test which did check out, ECM, is simply not penetrating deep enough (even the Sigma was reporting at the borderline red). Which is why I still consider some form of ultrasound + density together to be the only "gold" standard. I wish I could go back and test that bar with a phased array B scan like a Sonatest.

To whatever unfortunate soul that is ever in this unfortunate position I was in: If you are getting sketchy results on density (off by 5%+) and totally nonsensical results on an A-line (pipe width device), you must follow up with a Sonatest/Olympus or similar (cross-sectional picture using a phased array) or else assume it's a fake. Chances are good that your dealer will permit the swap and likely they only used an ECM/XRF otherwise they would not have sold you the bar to begin with if they had any morals. It's very scary to think that I might have been sold a fake and then exchanged back the same fake, and that perhaps nobody noticed in either direction. Will never know now. But the last thing you want is any uncertainty about what you own, because it will be in the back of your mind for decades. Please, please swap anything that doesn't pass Ultrasound + Archimedes.
 
I guess this is so much more important now than ever. When premiums on bullion were low, it was just easier to melt it and video tape it. Now that everyone is demanding so much more money for physical, it's kind of a situation where you have to do nondestructive tests like JayPowell2020 outlines.

Thanks for your post Jay.

I'm rarely in the testing of bullion and used to be involved more so in the making of limited quantities of it.

One thing I will say is that because the SG of water is so close to 1, one can setup an apparatus to weigh the over flow of displaced water and dispense with the string. That mass of water displaced corresponds to the volume. I use this a lot of times with powders (in which case I use a different liquid with less surface tension) to get their density.
 
thanks for the site, I think we all need to know about counterfeits.
https://sonatest.com/products/flaw-detectors
The ultrasonic flaw detector is a good kit to have if you need to keep the bar intact and can absorb five to ten grand into your operating costs.
But This is an old thread.
I would have remelted that bastard years ago.
I have just had two of those 150g commemorative silver panda coins in.
Being Chinese I had to drill over halfway through one of them before I trusted they were silver.
That is just 60p a gram. imagine the profit from filing a gold bar even a little.
Collect the element, not the temporary form it happens to hold at this moment.
Test test test and then test again.
You have the ability to dissolve gold into its elemental form.
So why speculate?
 
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