Hi Im Justyn (Filmstar)

[filmstar]

Hi Im Justyn (Filmstar) Ill explain the filmstar nickname another day. Anyway about me : My granddad was a watchmaker & jeweller and I spent most weekends working with him in his shop when I was a kid watching him pretty much walking around wearing an eye loupe most of the day working magic with what looked like dolls house tools & scraping gold dust into a bag under his work bench of almost every item that came into the shop for a repair( crafty old bugger ha ) This is what peaked my interest of anything that glittered.
I collect error coins & vintage watches and more recently I have started buying scrap gold from people who contact me in my local area.
Im a carpenter by trade and regurlatly come across old telecommunication panels & old industrial electrical circuit boards so I have been doing spending some time watching various methods of precious metal extraction.
Im looking for a decent dgital precious metal tester if you have any suggestions (ill post this in another thread)

The forums a great source of practical info do's & donts. I look forward to speaking with you on the GR forum whilst Im still researching and fine tuning the neccesary skills to find,, identify and set about removing precious metals from a wide variety of items.

Cheers
Justyn P

 

[orvi]

Hi Justyn
You are in an interesting position for the start Having a good means for scrap collecting is half of the success. As a hobby, I must warn you, it is addictive and facsinating don´t catch gold fever very quickly, it eats away an unhealthy portion of your free time

Research here on the forum for start. There is all information needed to start with first experiments with scrap processing. Firstly, you need to learn about how to safely work with corrosive and toxic chemicals used, and not less importantly, how to manage chemical waste created.

Don´t let this "boring part" of learning about unpleasant things discourage you, but you need to know what to do after successful gold extraction with all that gallons of green liquid you create it is inherent part of this business.
From my experience, I could tell anything what happen to you in the start was already disscussed here. Spend few dozen minutes with researching in tutorial section and searching key words - most probably you get an answer right away. If not, members here are very helpful and many of them can give you expert advice backed with decades of experience in this field.

Start small, just to test your abilities and skills. And after few successful recoveries grow to larger lots. And do not discard anything you produce, unless you are double sure that it doesn´t contain any values. As it is said, better to fail with small lot, not hurting you that much at the end, if something goes wrong in unrecoverable way

And for last advice, stick with well known proven procedures. Shortcuts in this business most often lead to very messy and tricky situations you dont wanna experience. When you build some confidence after few successful standard recoveries, maybe then it is the time to think about something "easier and straightforward". Feel free to discuss it, just do not make it as it goes and share your intentions with more skilled people here - they will add very valuable notes for your intended procedures

I wish you luck with your venture
Stay safe
Orvi

 

[DaddyD]

I have never messed with acid I have always used vinglar and salt to remove gold takes a little longer but safer

 

[Yggdrasil]

So what you say is that Acetic acid is not an acid?

And safer for what?
What you do with Vinegar and salt is create a weak HCl.
What you dissolve will end up as a mix of chlorides and acetats, which both are very harmful to the environment, specially the life in water.
So you still need to dispose it responsibly.

 

[DaddyD]

So what you say is that Acetic acid is not an acid?

And safer for what?
What you do with Vinegar and salt is create a weak HCl.
What you dissolve will end up as a mix of chlorides and acetats, which both are very harmful to the environment, specially the life in water.
So you still need to dispose it responsibly.

All I did was to say what works for me

 

[Yggdrasil]

You said you don't use acids.
And your approach create substances that in many ways are just as toxic ore even more toxic to life as chlorides by itself.
So what you achieve is not much.
It might even be more expensive than plain muriatic acid.

Edit to add.
The AP process do not take much acid and it is never going to be waste, unless you decide to stop using the process.
It can virtually be rejuvenated forever. Just use an aquarium bubbler to bubble air through the liquid.

 

[nickvc]

It’s strange that so many people believe using household materials is so much better and safer than using industrial chemicals without realizing that all those items are chemicals and if mixed incorrectly can cause serious harm, but who am I to shatter their beliefs

 

[butcher]

HCl acid is in our stomach naturally, this acid is not safe for our stomach when it reacts with copper or other toxic metals.

Vinegar and salt ( make a weak diluted HCl acid) this organic acid if mixed with copper or other toxic metals make the very same poisons salts or acidic waste (with a little added carbon chemistry to the dangerous mix) that you would have had if you were using HCl acid.

Only now because you are using such a weak acid you will have to make much more of this diluted acid to get the job done. So you have made much more volumes of this toxic waste generated than you would have had to deal with, than you would have had, if you had just used HCl, to begin with.

The waste or byproduct is just as harmful to your shop, your land, your children, your neighbor's pets, and her children, the waste is as toxic and poisonous as any of the copper chloride poisons we deal with, just because you used a food-grade salt does not make it safe, just because you use a weak acid or a food grade acid-like vinegar it does not make it safer the copper or other metal salts formed are just as dangerous to you or the environment around you.

 

[heliman4141]

After all my experiences with working with acids in the past recovering then refining PMs i totally agree with all above safety statements, no matter how metal salts are made its now ending up seriously toxic and must be neutralized. What the salt poster probably meant by his post was about avoiding nasty fumes by using salt & vinegar verses the obvious harsher by far fumes of HCl and much worse nitric, sulfuric, bleach, and all the chemicals that can be used for focused dropping of specific targeted salts only, for a clean end metal drop and the washings. Had he included the why of fumes his statement would have been consumed easier and understood why, i would have if that was my point to make about the issue. In a dangerous field like this being specific makes all the difference in getting the thoughts across correctly, not just random quips. Yes, the fumes suck period, absolutely worst part of the adventure if you do not operate with a hood vent with a scrubber........................ for all concerned.

 

[nickvc]

What ever he meant you still create toxic fumes and solutions and believing it’s safer is very very wrong.

 

[orvi]

Aside of corrosive fumes of HCl, copper acetate could be considered comparably toxic to copper chloride, if not more toxic due to greater lipophilicity - adsorb through tissue more quickly.
No specific toxic gases (aside of HCl gas) are evolved from the AP solution when oxygen is bubbled through.
Vinegar and salt look so nice, tamed and straightforward... But in the end, consequences of creating copper/tin/lead/nickel chemical waste are the same if not worse as in the case of HCl.
Vinegar is more diluted, so volume of waste solution is bigger - more problems handling/storing/processing it.
For cleaning copper pennies or other coins or copper = OK. For processing escrap = more problems and slow reaction.

 

[filmstar]

Hi Justyn
You are in an interesting position for the start Having a good means for scrap collecting is half of the success. As a hobby, I must warn you, it is addictive and facsinating don´t catch gold fever very quickly, it eats away an unhealthy portion of your free time

Research here on the forum for start. There is all information needed to start with first experiments with scrap processing. Firstly, you need to learn about how to safely work with corrosive and toxic chemicals used, and not less importantly, how to manage chemical waste created.

Don´t let this "boring part" of learning about unpleasant things discourage you, but you need to know what to do after successful gold extraction with all that gallons of green liquid you create it is inherent part of this business.
From my experience, I could tell anything what happen to you in the start was already disscussed here. Spend few dozen minutes with researching in tutorial section and searching key words - most probably you get an answer right away. If not, members here are very helpful and many of them can give you expert advice backed with decades of experience in this field.

Start small, just to test your abilities and skills. And after few successful recoveries grow to larger lots. And do not discard anything you produce, unless you are double sure that it doesn´t contain any values. As it is said, better to fail with small lot, not hurting you that much at the end, if something goes wrong in unrecoverable way

And for last advice, stick with well known proven procedures. Shortcuts in this business most often lead to very messy and tricky situations you dont wanna experience. When you build some confidence after few successful standard recoveries, maybe then it is the time to think about something "easier and straightforward". Feel free to discuss it, just do not make it as it goes and share your intentions with more skilled people here - they will add very valuable notes for your intended procedures

I wish you luck with your venture
Stay safe
Orvi

Cheers Orvi