Honey Pot

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FrugalRefiner

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I thought I would share an idea I’ve adapted from a previous career. I had a hard time deciding where to post this. Moderators please feel free to move it if you feel it would be more appropriate elsewhere. But it is a safety issue.

Many years ago I spent some time administering a computer network. We had a modem bank that allowed customers to upload medical billing information to our system, so security was important. One technique used at the time was called a Honey Pot. I don’t know if the technique is still used in network security, but the principle may be of interest to some on the forum.

The idea was to put one computer on the network that was less secure than all the others. Not so much that it was obvious, but one that just appeared to have been set up in haste without all the proper security features enabled. The machine wasn’t used for anything, and couldn’t be used to access any other system on the network. But to someone trying to hack into a network, it looked like a machine that would be worth a little effort to try to gain further access or information (lots of business related looking files). The machine was monitored to see if anyone ever came poking around looking for a way in. While they were poking around, we could watch their activity, track their IP address, etc. It was known as a Honey Pot.

We face many risk in dealing with refining and precious metals. Beyond the oft discussed chemical dangers, anyone dealing in precious metals, no matter how clandestine their activity, is at risk of being robbed. Anyone buying the chemicals we use is at risk of a visit from the MIB. Our “gummint” has, not that long ago, forced people to give up their gold holdings.

I have a Honey Pot. First, my main stash is not concentrated in one place, like a safe. A safe that is not huge, impossible to move, and extremely difficult to crack, is just doing a favor for the thieves by putting all valuables in one place for them. Mine are dispersed. Widely. But I do have one of those nice, lockable, “fireproof” security boxes that are available at most department stores. I keep it “hidden” in our bedroom closet (where else would an old curmudgeon like me hide his valuables?) under a small stack of clothes in a corner. It’s hidden, but a thief would have to be a complete ***** not to be able to find it. I keep some valuables in it. A few small ingots, some coins, some silver certificates, some jewelry, etc. Also some (copies of) important papers. It’s all expendable.

If someone robs my home, they will probably find my Honey Pot. They can easily bust it open, find all my valuables, and run away happy! If the Police, EPA, MIB come asking about what I use chemicals for I can show them my MSDS binder, chemical logs, lab, and the ingots in my Honey Pot. If it becomes illegal to own quantities of precious metals again, I will comply with the law and turn in everything in my Honey Pot.

Dave
 
When Germany invaded Denmark in World War II, George de Hevesy dissolved the gold Nobel Prizes of Max von Laue and James Franck with aqua regia to prevent the Nazis from stealing them. He placed the resulting solution on a shelf in his laboratory at the Niels Bohr Institute. After the war, he returned to find the solution undisturbed and precipitated the gold out of the acid. The Nobel Society then recast the Nobel Prizes using the original gold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Hevesy

I just had to post on this thread...

I used to be a WAN Manager, I was responsible for 167 remote locations from 1996 - 2003. I finished up my Masters in Psychology during this time. After I obtained my Masters I went to work for another entity, profiling people who attempted to gain access to certain computer networks. I set up arbitrary fake networks, then hung them out to dry so to speak. I would watch the different people attempting to gain access, and made a sort of profile, or footprint, of the ones who had any talent and might pose a threat. In doing this, other network administrators who were in charge of the networks I was working with, could use my profiles, and perhaps tell who exactly attempted to gain access to their secured networks. Every hacker has their own style, their own footprint. It all worked remarkably well. I once caught a 12 year old kid in Brazil, using a 9,600 bps modem and a 386 computer who oddly enough was able to get further into our systems than anyone else during my 6 months stint for God and Country. Needless to say, 6 months was more than enough for me, the paranoia and conspiracy talk made the work environment undesirable.

But the bait and switch does work...

I just dry out my powder, and keep it in mason jars along with sand I have from the painted desert. I have a safe not far away from it. Nobody, unless they know exactly what to look for, would ever suspect. Just like the Nazis in the story above. And no I am not posting my address! :lol:

I suspect you could also keep it suspended in acid solution and just simply label it "deadly acid" or something along those lines. Those of us that refine are fortunate to be able to hoard gold in non traditional ways. The mind will usually skip things that are out in plain site when looking for things the person believes should be hidden. It's a neat psychological trick, and it really works. Hide it right out in the open.

Scott
 
be sure to read Oz's post
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=14470
right along the same lines

For me, I just think having one closet full of my work shirts with some of the "ugliest", mismatched 'buttons' ever seen seems like a good idea..... ;)
 
As a comment on keeping your values in solution, the jars and vessels can be broken or knocked over and the normal run of thieves seems as keen on trashing a place as robbing it, just ask any policeman you know.
 
I like to put it back in the ground buried , sealed in a plastic bucket, nothing marks the spot, forget it a even a metal detector would not be able to find it.
 
I saw an interesting YouTube video that showed how you can hide your metals in the ground, and even with a metal detector, it will most likely never be found. Here's the breakdown..

1. You would dig a hole very deep in the ground, maybe 4 - 6 feet deep or at least arms length while laying face down on the ground.

2. Then you place your sealed/waterproof container in the ground.

3. After you place your items in the ground, you cover it up with dirt and pack it tight, just above the height of the buried canister.

4. After that, you would take some shredded aluminum cans, or aluminum foil that's shredded or torn up and you sprinkle it on top of your dirt.

5. You then fill and pack more dirt and then you put something else that is trash metal, like soda tops, beer tabs, whatever you can find and scatter it within that area.

You would do this approximately every 6 inches or so filling it with junk metals and keep packing dirt over it. Once you get to the top, or near the top, toss in a few pennies or such, or even a small piece of scrap copper.

Now that you've made it to the top soil, pack it really well, add some water over it to help pack the dirt down, then pack it some more.

When it's all said and done, what you've done is effectively hidden your valuables even where a metal detector can spot it, but the moral of this is that once someone starts to dig in that spot, then find the trash metals, then dig some more and find more trash metals, ... after a few feet at most, they're going to think that the sounds they're detecting is that bunch of shredded up aluminum and other crap and they will stop digging. The point is this... you must bury your treasure deep enough to discourage them, and at the same time, have plenty of trash/scrap metal in that spot. They will stop looking in that spot.

I also like the idea of breaking the metals down to powder and drying them out, sealing them up and burying them in the ground. The problem though with that is that if there's an emergency, it'll probably be impossible to do any melting at all to bring them back to the metal that they are.

Kevin
 
Old Pirate trick: Bury the main treasure deep, but bury a small chest above the main loot. Another is to bury the loot in a graveyard, in a freshly dug grave. The locals would never think of digging up Granny.
 
Irons2 said:
Old Pirate trick: Bury the main treasure deep, but bury a small chest above the main loot. Another is to bury the loot in a graveyard, in a freshly dug grave. The locals would never think of digging up Granny.
Good point there. A graveyard would definitely do wonders.

Kevin
 
I can see that would work if the person behind the metal detector was a new treasure hunter. But seasoned pro would look at that as a big sign of hidden treasure. Just think of it as the deeper you go, the further back in time you go. If you dug down 4 feet and still hit aluminum would you stop, not me since aluminum wasnt around 250 or even 400 years ago. Now if you took something like a few railroad spikes or anything that would of been in that area or even a huge rusty banged up steel 55 gallon drum turned on its side open end up a foot or 2 from the top they would hit the barrel and be like crap its a steel drum nothing here would work alot better to me.

Rich
 
TXWolfie said:
I can see that would work if the person behind the metal detector was a new treasure hunter. But seasoned pro would look at that as a big sign of hidden treasure. Just think of it as the deeper you go, the further back in time you go. If you dug down 4 feet and still hit aluminum would you stop, not me since aluminum wasnt around 250 or even 400 years ago. Now if you took something like a few railroad spikes or anything that would of been in that area or even a huge rusty banged up steel 55 gallon drum turned on its side open end up a foot or 2 from the top they would hit the barrel and be like crap its a steel drum nothing here would work alot better to me.

Rich
Like I said before, throw crap down there that would discourage them from going further. Aluminum will along side of anything old too. People would think that "someone has been down here and haven't found nothing but this crap and left it here". Either way it goes, you can hide your precious metals and still deter a person with a metal detector.

Kevin
 
Irons2 said:
Old Pirate trick: Bury the main treasure deep, but bury a small chest above the main loot. Another is to bury the loot in a graveyard, in a freshly dug grave. The locals would never think of digging up Granny.
Be sure to put it in BEFORE the grave is filled....... - they sure wouldn't think of digging UNDER Granny! :shock:
 
MMFJ said:
Irons2 said:
Old Pirate trick: Bury the main treasure deep, but bury a small chest above the main loot. Another is to bury the loot in a graveyard, in a freshly dug grave. The locals would never think of digging up Granny.
Be sure to put it in BEFORE the grave is filled....... - they sure wouldn't think of digging UNDER Granny! :shock:
I'm laughing myself into tears.... I bet they wouldn't..... But the graveyard is a good idea. I'd bury my goods next to a grave of a person I don't know.... then gps the coordinates.

I read a book some years ago that spoke about how to put yourself into a "Level 4 status". Level 4 status is what is called the "Witness Protection Program". It's very easy to do.

Once you bury something, you MUST gps the coordinates and write them down, then to the few people you trust, you would give each person just ONE of the coordinates. Each person has their coordinates and upon your death, or something else happening to you each person will have to meetup with each other and put the coordinates together to find the location.

Nothing is guaranteed, meaning, one of the people with the coordinates could pass away right after you and the other person won't know what those numbers mean at all.... not unless it is in a Will, which states that if there is one survivor, then the coordinates are revealed to that survivor. If both are still living, then they are told what those numbers are for. From there, they must go and get the buried goods.

Remember this too, you can give coordinates that are hundreds or even thousands of miles away.

There are many ways to hide your precious metals and they won't be found by purpose, if you don't want them to be found.

Kevin
 
Any to think I wasted all that money on 3 TRTL 60 X 6 Safes with a UL alarm system!

Dan :mrgreen:
 
Dan Dement said:
Any to think I wasted all that money on 3 TRTL 60 X 6 Safes with a UL alarm system!

Dan :mrgreen:
I wouldn't say you wasted money. You made an investment. A safe is definitely good to have... just don't put ALL your possessions in them.

Kevin
 
just thinking ,note that this post is very very funny but no one seem to use a bank safe... you know... 60$ a years ... in a bank... you dont need to dug granny out on a night without moon because you hide the gold under her left prostetic knee ...
 
ericrm said:
just thinking ,note that this post is very very funny but no one seem to use a bank safe... you know... 60$ a years ... in a bank... you dont need to dug granny out on a night without moon because you hide the gold under her left prostetic knee ...

That is the one place they will check for your gold for sure if there is a gold confiscation again.

Jim
 
ericrm said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: i honestly do hope your kidding me but i aint sure...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed, pending action in the due course of the law. All sales or purchases or movements of such gold and silver within the borders of the United States and its territories and all foreign exchange transactions or movements of such metals across the border are hereby prohibited.

Your possession of these proscribed metals and/or your maintenance of a safe deposit box to store them is known by the government from bank and insurance records. Therefore, be advised that your vault box must remain sealed, and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the Internal Revenue Service.

By lawful order given this day, the President of the United States.
Franklin Roosevelt – March 9, 1933

You are in Canada, I don't know how safe your bank boxes are?

Jim
 
Guys,

I have a jewelry store with 7 figures of Diamond, Platinum, Palladium, & gold. In the State of Texas, not one TRTL 60 X 6 has broken into. On top , is a triple backup alarm UL certified system! Cut anything you want, it's still going to work. If you get within 2 feet of it, the alarm is going off. Now, a pro with burning bars and every tool known to man, might be able to get into one in a hour and I have three. If, the never can happen, Happens. . .I have insurance to cover everything.

May not be perfect but it''s as close as I care to try to cover!

Dan
 

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