I am needin some silver help

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I have a hoard of sterling silver(450 pounds) what do I need to get to get it back to .999 fine silver? Is it possible to do it at home? I would like to keep as much silver for my family instead of giving the 10 to 15 %
to a smelter. I have the kiln to melt and the ingot molds. I have try ed to find the answers on this forum. If you guys send me to the correct page I am more than willing to read all the instructions. I just can not narrow the search down enough it keeps throwing out words like Sterling and .999 out . Thanks for your time. John
 
If you have no wish for a cell:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3264
If you have a wish for a cell: read the forum.
 
jornski said:
I have a hoard of sterling silver(450 pounds) what do I need to get to get it back to .999 fine silver? Is it possible to do it at home? I would like to keep as much silver for my family instead of giving the 10 to 15 %
to a smelter. I have the kiln to melt and the ingot molds. I have try ed to find the answers on this forum. If you guys send me to the correct page I am more than willing to read all the instructions. I just can not narrow the search down enough it keeps throwing out words like Sterling and .999 out . Thanks for your time. John
Click to expand...

Try using my improved forum search page in my signature line below.

It won't reject your keywords.

Steve
 
Between melt and assay fees and the refiners cut (3%) you'll still be charged about 180 fine silver ounces plus about $.30 per ounce in (melt and assay fees) you're looking at about $5,000 in charges even if you get a fair shake.

For less than that kind of money you can set up to do it yourself. If you give a little more information about yourself, where (generally) you live, your technical or chemical skills or anything that will help us guide you in the right direction. Do you have access to chemicals? Do you have access to more of this material to make setting up a proposition that will pay you back in the future?

450 pounds of sterling is over 6000 ounces of fine silver. Worth processing correctly.
 
If I am reading your intent correctly you wish to cash in your hoarded sterling for recognizable bullion as a savings or hedge against the current economical situation the world is in. Since you are already willing to deal in selling small bars to many customers cast from shot and pay the fees from Ebay as well as PayPal and that works for you, then why not do the same thing but sell them as sterling bars if you find that business model works? As unmelted marked sterling pieces they are more trustworthy as to silver content than a generic bar would be to a refinery, even after you go through the expense and time to refine them.

If you want recognized bullion to hold for you and your family as an investment I would take your proceeds and buy bars or coins from well known manufacturers in 10 oz denominations or less. As 4metals will likely confirm, bars of a greater weight are highly suspect these days as to being filled and not pure.

I do not mean to discourage you from refining, but the fact is you will pay the same penalties to the refineries if you sell to them whether it is refined by you first or not. Refining your sterling only asures you of the fine silver content before you ship so you will know if they dealt with you honestly. You may be surprised how much “sterling” can vary as to fine silver content.
 
jornski,

There are 3 ways I can think of to get that purity.

(1) Use the dissolve in nitric acid/drop with formate method as suggested by 4metals.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1275&p=39590&hilit=formate#p39590

(2) Dissolve in nitric acid/cement with copper/melt into bars/go through silver cell.

(3) Melt into bars/go through silver cell


(1) & (2) require about 75 gallons of nitric acid, which will generate about 150-200 gallons of acid waste. The dissolving will generate large amounts of red/brown toxic fumes which must be dealt with.

(2) will also require the purchase and usage of about 125# of clean copper.

(2) & (3) use a silver cell which, for the size needed, would cost at least $4000-$5000 to set up. Assuming a 15 gallon cell, this includes the 100 oz of silver used for the cell solution and at least a 100 amp rectifier. In (2), the silver going into the silver cell is made much purer (about 99%) by the nitric/cement process. This makes the working of the silver cell much less complicated.

In all the above, I haven't considered the learning curve you would have to go through.


As you can see, it's not going to be cheap or simple to do this. If, as 4metals suggested, you can have it processed for $5000, you should consider that. Were I to refine this, I would probably use (3) above. However, with all the money required to set up the cell, it would be hard to justify if this were only a one-shot deal. As a one-shot deal, I might use (1) above. However, this requires a lot of knowledge and a proper setup.
 
You might contact these guys: http://www.aragold.com. They've treated me fairly and charge a flat 10% refining fee for silver.
Good luck. If you call them ask for John or Don and tell them Jeff Sargent recommended them to you.
 
How many Kilos can a person can refine in 1 day without using a cell.
I mean the usual techinques we talk about over like the suger method ,or aluminum and so on
I know that it also depends on the purity of the silver.
Lets say 80% coin silver
 
How many Kilos can a person can refine in 1 day without using a cell.
I mean the usual techinques we talk about over like the suger method ,or aluminum and so on
I know that it also depends on the purity of the silver.
Lets say 80% coin silver
Click to expand...
Not a very reasonable question. It all depends on the equipment and the facilities. If I had a 750 gal, heated SS nitric tank, with pumps and a large filtering setup, I could dissolve about 1500#/day, assuming only 1 cycle was run and the tank was filled only 2/3 full. However, if I only had a 1 liter beaker, it would be .43#.

A better question would be, "If I had a kilo (pick any amount) of 80% silver, what process, equipment, and chemicals would I need to recover the silver in 1 day?" Even with this, there could be several different answers.

Also, you can't very well "refine" (purify) silver without a cell, unless you use something like 4metals' formate method.

Also, at least in this country, "coin silver" is 90%.
 
You might contact these guys: http://www.aragold.com. They've treated me fairly and charge a flat 10% refining fee for silver.
Click to expand...

10% is high, the rates I was using are $.30 per ounce incoming for melt and assay plus 3% refining fee (accountability) Now I know that's more than one flat fee but it's a lot better deal. At todays fix for silver 17.17, paying for a melt and 3% costs you $5095.44, now straight 10% flat costs you $10422. big difference.

The lesson here is always do the math, often what sounds simple is simply a huge profit for someone!
 
4metals said:
You might contact these guys: http://www.aragold.com. They've treated me fairly and charge a flat 10% refining fee for silver.
Click to expand...

10% is high, the rates I was using are $.30 per ounce incoming for melt and assay plus 3% refining fee (accountability) Now I know that's more than one flat fee but it's a lot better deal. At todays fix for silver 17.17, paying for a melt and 3% costs you $5095.44, now straight 10% flat costs you $10422. big difference.

The lesson here is always do the math, often what sounds simple is simply a huge profit for someone!
Click to expand...

Indeed. Sound advice.
I noticed the word "was"... are you still refining silver at these rates? If so I have a couple hundred ounces of silver with copper in in it I need to sell. I was using it for inquartation past couple of months.
 
I do not refine anymore, just consulting. Those rates are from Midstates Recycling & Refining in Chicago. The original post was for 450 pounds so the minimums were covered. Check the website and factor in the minimums for the lot size you have. How good the deal is is all in the numbers.
 
4metals said:
I do not refine anymore, just consulting. Those rates are from Midstates Recycling & Refining in Chicago. The original post was for 450 pounds so the minimums were covered. Check the website and factor in the minimums for the lot size you have. How good the deal is is all in the numbers.
Click to expand...

And there's the problem. The minimums and little "fees". I have not checked Midstates but I will and compare to be fair.
I gave up using DH Fell because of all the BS charges. First is a batch fee then a "processing" fee then assay fee then they pay differing percentages on the recovered metals based on the starting material and so on. It would take a CPA to figure it out. Before you know it, on a small batch of a couple ounces they ended up paying me less than 80%. Not that they "cheated" me in legal terms because "you know Mr sargent, we spell it all out right there in two pages of fine print". Contrast that to ARA... They pay 98% on the gold. 90% on the silver. Period. They have my business because of that and because they seem to be honest.
 
What I have done for materials that frequently need refining is make a spreadsheet with a few refiners rates for that material, put in all the variables, minimum lot charges, accountability, melt fees, minimum deductions, and put in current metal prices. Then just add the quantity and compare overall $ charge totals. It is amazing how one refiner can be great for lots of X size but be bad for lots of Y size. also different concentrations of metals in the material can effect the rates.

If you'd like, send me rates from a few refiners you want to check out and I'll post a spreadsheet.
 

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