I Need Dr. Poe!!

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Geo

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The only thing I thought he contributed on was with colloids. Even then he was condescending to anyone who asked him questions. Everything else was crap.
 

galenrog

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If your questions are regarding precious metal recovery or refining, please ask here. You will likely get the answers you need.
 

galenrog

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Perhaps I've actually had enough coffee today. I think we should give the OP a chance, and see what she wants. If it actually has something to do with PM recovery or refining, every effort should be made to give her honest answers and opinion.

Lila, I know you have visited the forum since my earlier post. Ask your questions. If they are related to PM recovery or refining, they will be answered.
 

Topher_osAUrus

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Lila Black said:
I actually have a lot of questions, many of them are not appropriate for this forum.

I did however think of a few questions that maybe you guys could help me answer that i'm having a hard time finding the answers for.

1. has anyone ever smelted a gold drop from oxalic acid and used anything less than an oxy acteylene or oxy propane torch? and if so did it melt and what did it look like? black brown etc?

2. what type of gold or rather what is the chemical sign for the type of gold that is dropped with oxalic acid

3. has anyone ever seen gold sulfide look kinda black? or does it always look like a grey powder?

Thank you so much in advance!

1. Oxalic precipitates gold. I used mapp to melt mine. Melted fine.
2. Elemental gold is precipitated.
3. No idea
 

solar_plasma

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2. chemical sign for gold is always Au. Even if you add the oxidation stage of 0, +I or +III, the chemical sign is still Au. I only used oxalic acid to reduce Au+III (which means, it is lacking 3 electrons) to Au0 (which means, it got its electrons back and owns as many protons as electrons, so that whole atom thing is neutral).

I have no knowledge about Au+I and its chemistry.
 

solar_plasma

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1. Propane alone. Works, if you use anything for isolation and reflection of the heat - fx. rock whool and refractory bricks. It only turns black when it isn't pure (base metal oxides). If pure it is always tan.

But I do not love to melt without oxygen.
 

Topher_osAUrus

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solar_plasma said:
...
But I do not love to melt without oxygen.

Indeed, anything over ten grams, and melting without oxygen almost becomes a chore.
I say almost, because, it's still gold, and it's still beautiful....even after 20 minutes of sweating bullets trying to get it molten. :D
 

Topher_osAUrus

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If you care to go into detail on your projects, I'm sure there are a great many here who would be able to help you.

As far as I know, an oxalic precipitation is metallic gold. The color is dependant upon the particle size of the finely divided gold. The light tan color is a sign of very little contamination, if any. But as it was mentioned earlier. Heating the gold precipitant, and getting black crud in the crucible, would be an indication of impurities in the gold powder.

Maybe try to find a copy of "Gold by EM Wise" it is a very in depth book about gold, its uses, chemistry, alloys, and anything else you may want to know about.

Oxalic acid is best used when precipitating from a clean solution, or relatively clean. It helps separate from pgm's fairly well.

Smelt is different than melt, by the way. We melt pure gold powder, not smelt. Since we don't need to add flux as the gold we are melting is pure, and needs no additional chemistry in the melting dish.

Your oxalic precipitant, did you clean it up at all? Wash it with hydrochloric acid, then water? If not, that is probably where your problem came from, or if you dropped the gold with oxalic from a heavily contaminated solution.

Mapp gas is plenty hot enough. Maybe try to get some kaowool or other insulation and build a little firebrick box to contain as much heat as you can. It's possible, I promise you that, it just takes practice and patience. I use mapp to melt most of my lots.
 

Topher_osAUrus

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Lila Black said:
So Topher you are saying it is indeed elemental gold that is precipitated out?
yes, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure its metallic gold, finely divided
then why does it look not so yellow?
what does it look like? Pictures help a LOT
is it something to do with it's particle size in this case?
maybe? Maybe not, a picture would help so we're on the same page. But, gold powder can be anywhere from black, to brown, to light tan, and anywhere in between.
also what is it about having to heat it to get it to precipitate that blond ish tan color, as i found that when you don't apply enough heat it strangely comes out whiter looking.
heat helps facilitate the reduction of gold with oxalic acid, one book I have says it can be precipitated cold, but will take forever and a day. ...I'm just guessing here, but, Id bet the "white" is either the oxalic crystalizing out of the saturated solution that has cooled, or maybe silver chloride, or maybe I am way way off.
it is an intriguing substance indeed I fail to completely understand.
gold? Yes, Intriguing indeed. And beautiful in so many ways beyond its shimmer and shine.
 

g_axelsson

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You haven't told us what your starting material was. What did you dissolve to get gold chloride and witch process did you use?

How about testing? Have you read anything about stannous chloride and testing for precious metals in solution?

Göran
 

solar_plasma

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Lila, you will not get anywhere, if you don't learn the basics. I cannot see you do any afford to do so, but expecting to get spoonfeeded.

If you want to learn, what happens chemically, then find some school videos about redox processes on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=redox+proceses

If you want to learn about refining, read both Hoke books...twice. Everything you ask has been covered deeply at least 42 times on the forum. Start with learning to use the search function! If this doesn't help, then ask where to find.

I love to help and I love to teach, which is my business in fact, but it is extremely annoying when you take the time to read a new post only to see, someone does not want to do his homework.
 

kurtak

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Lila Black said:
I don't need help with refining

Then this is not the place for you

I need help with colloid from gold III

Ahhh - so you do need help with refining --- then this is the place for you - AND - you will get MUCH better advice from the members here then you will ever get from Dr. Poe :!: :!: :!:

Sooooo - FORGET trying to contact Dr. Poe (who will only fill your head with a bunch of B.S.) & start doing some REAL research here on this forum (&/or asking your questions here) where you will get REAL answers concerning refining :!:

So Topher you are saying it is indeed elemental gold that is precipitated out? then why does it look not so yellow?

To better answer what Topher said about your precipitated gold not being yellow (like "solid" gold)

The reason precipitated gold does not "look" golden - is as Topher said - particle size

The precipitated gold particles are so "fine" they don't reflect light like a large piece of gold - so they don't have the "golden" luster of a large piece of gold

Regardless of the precipitating reagent you use - your gold is gong to come down as a "fine" powder that can/will very in color from a mid to dark tan to a deeper orange/brown color "in part" depending on how fine it comes down - which "in part" depends on how dilute the solution is when dropping the gold - as well as the reagent you use to precipitate with - &/or drag down of other element if your precipitating from a dirty solution

Precipitating with oxalic acid is not a good reagent to start with for a beginner because of the need of properly adjusting the PH is more critical with oxalic acid then with other reagents

Try going with SMB or copperas instead

Kurt
 
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