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Topher_osAUrus

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GRF is, and always will be, FREE.

I just recently (today) was going to update a silver cell crystal thread with my recent experiments, results, and pertinent information.. i had typed over a period of a couple weeks, a little every day or every other. ...as I am long winded, it stretched a mile long. Things on the forum changed, for better or worse, and of course every one of the words are up and gone. -who cares, i have notes and could type again.. but. ..

What i stumbled upon though, was more troubling. I saw a mod named Angie ("who the F is that"-i thought, "and whats she know about refining?") After creeping her posts, i see the 4 page drama where Harold posted, and many others were up in arms.

....i never saw this thread until I was creepin on Angie's 42 back messages.

...I always click on 'new posts', i used to click on 'unread posts' so I could continue to read any new threads that occured during my hiatus, but that option is no longer there, just 'new posts' This thread mentioned, which is locked down and shouldnt be, brings about provocative thoughts... good and bad.

I didnt really have any major contributions to the forum, but I still feel as if the little information I did submit, as been nickeled and dimed. The stone has been squeezed and what little blood the forum had that was still pumping has been wrung dry.

The forum was betrayed, but, I think the bigger issue is the idealism that all this information was free. As it should be. And now as it is owned by whoever, and beginning to be moderated by those unfamiliar in the discipline.

The issue/s are then as follows (just the pertinent ones, several have been omitted):
*Information given freely is now going to be profitable for 'the man'.. what does the original author of the words get? Naff all.

So why continue contribute?...so your good intentions of helping those in need can line 'the man's pockets'? The intellectual property being sold and bought, and then sold again when people come seeking help.

*Angie, Im sorry, not trying to belittle or berate you in anyway. But, as per the above, is cause for concern.. ...all of it.. if the mods up and out. How will any of your team be able to effectively and safely advise?
If this place is now as you say "a library" what is your plan of sustainability? Even libraries have to make money to pay the bills... so when the contributors are gone. And management is as well, will you guys then decide that ad revenue isnt enough and you need to charge a small fee for joining? Maybe even charge for each thread? How will you curate such knowledge without experience in the matter?
....your compamy has been doing this for 20 years. (....so you used to buy yahoo groups? Aol chatrooms? Confused on the beginning of the timeline there i guess, but i digress)

so what is the companies game plan when the forum is a lame horse that needs put down? Which is exactly what grf will become without the community and its supporting mantra of refiners helping refiners. I just see a whole slew of issues arising when that paradigm shifts to "I.T. guys helping people who want to be refiners but... ..." liability over safety concerns and environmental impacts being big ones.

...a library of information....
Thats what you have now. So what are you going to do with it? It seems many are on the fence and about to jump off just to get away before they are betrayed yet again. Trust is a hard thing to earn in this field. Transparency helps that. What doesnt help is locking down of threads where those people who built this forum are voicing their concerns..

I guess it comes down to -whats your endgame here? For if things go good?... what about bad.. ??

I must admit, finding all this out hurt... more than finding out my wife had been cheating on me for pretty much our whole relationship.... i got rid of her ass, for better or worse.. should the forum be seen for what many believe it to be? A place started on a fundamental idea that eventually lost its luster, so it was exchanged for something a bit easier to spend..

I love this place. And i love the people. But, it seems like now, I am only in love with the idea of what the forum once was..

if i get banned for this thread, so be it, it would only affirm the feelings/stance of myself others. Id like to see this as a start of something with more transparency, but I don't hold my breath

Discord anyone?
Www.newgoldrefiningforum.com maybe?
...betrayal leaves such a bitter taste, its....icky...

Should anyone wish to contact me. ...my gmail is molecularmetallurgy(at)Gmail
Phne is 620 that'smy area code) prefix is 491.....or is the area code considered the prefix?.. eh, no matter. The last 4 digits are 2738. Call, txt, email, whatever. I think the information I was writing for that silver cell thread i will probably just make a youtube video or something.

Edit to fix my typo. ...on my own email address.... idiot.
 
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cosmetal

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Well said, Topher.

I find it very telling that the post that was created after her (@Angie) announcement of changes GRF changes has been locked and no further posts (questions) are allowed.

I find it very telling that a post of mine asking for a business address of the "Service" has been deleted without an answer. No, my intent for asking was not a nefarious one. I wanted to run a D&B report on their "20+ year old" business.

I find it very telling that a post where another member found another website that had a list of other forums/boards that the "Service" bought/controls/services is no longer available for view.

Is this censorship due to offending content? No. It's censorship of inquiries/questions that the "Service" finds uncomfortable to answer.
The "Service" appeared out of nowhere and still remains a mystery.

@g_axelsson - Goran, in your response about GRF Wiki, you are listed as a Staff Member, Administrator, and Moderator. The same titles that @Angie has. I sincerely hope that you have agreed with the "Service" to stick around and that they have made it worth your while to do so. The "Service" needs someone with your "chops" to maintain any sort of technical credibility and stewardship. Peace to you, brother!

James
 

Lou

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Woah guys, woah. I know many regulars here are having a “what the hell?” moment. I did too.

I found out about this whole sale when Jean Nicholas (Noxx) said it was under new ownership…a few days ago. Let’s be honest, he’s been “checked out” for years. Us mods could barely get ahold of him. He’s doing (gold recovery as a mining engineer)it for a living. I am too, for that matter, but I still care about people being able to learn this science and I’m fortunate enough to be able to learn from the forum too.

Let’s be open-minded and hopefully this new chapter is a good one.
 

butcher

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Lets try to keep our horses corralled.

Deleting post asking for disclosure is not cool but lets not jump the gun.
Some of this may be misunderstanding and not something up to no good.

We will not know if members begin to jump ship, we will not have a chance to get to smoother waters without a crew.

Lets continue to stay together as a community and ask the hard questions and hopefully the new administration will help with our concerns with honest answers. Without silencing members.
 

Lou

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As we say at my job place…the proof in the pudding. I just now started reading what’s transpired since the last login and I’m concerned. Seeing establishment members, guys that are rock solid and among the most prudent, stick-to-the-science of all of us wanting their posts gone, gone…

I’ve contributed a lot here too. A lot in private. I still don’t know how to use this software either. Mod team got basically hosed and let’s be honest, Dave and Goran and Butcher keeping lights. I check in but I’m not doing heavy lifting with admin and post moving etc.

Let’s go back a DEFCON level and step off from that ledge…
 

cosmetal

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Also, well said, gentlemen.

I find it reassuring that Mods with your experience levels are chiming into this PR mess. But, I also hope that the "Service" is being more open regarding their business identities and intents to you Mods.

Peace and health,
James
 

niks neims

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Thanks for chiming in, old mods....

is there some kind of logs or something that other admins can access that show what posts/threads got deleted? what happened with multiple posts from last night breaches all boundaries of sensible forum administration. sorry for being pessimistic but now I can't see any way this gets better. And honestly, I was prepared to give new owners a chance for good impression - only remnants of the start of that last nights discussion can be seen in now butchered and locked thread......

thanks to the member who was quick enough to get my e-mail adress before it got deleted (last night)

we'll see how long this lasts:
 

Topher_osAUrus

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Yeah. ...not much left to say that other members haven't already said..

This Angie, if that even be her/his real name (Id guess Karen), im guessing, is the one and only proprietor of this 'service'. By distancing himself from that 'boss' status, it placates us into the belief that it's someone else who has pissed on our post-toasties (cereal). Thereby deferring our ire elsewhere. The same reason that 'Angie' went with the name "Angie" instead of gastapo or the like. Common manipulation tactic, used often by higher powers that be.

I appreciate the mods' posts and efforts greatly.. Lou, butcher, dave, G, et. al...

I cannot honestly say I had no intention to fuel up the fire again, I just think the people here deserve more transparency. More respect. Than that which has been allotted to us now. Dropping the ban hammer for asking questions, hiding and burning entire threads, ...is this life here, now? How long until every one of us inquisitive minds are booted out and there is nobody left that can cry 'foul' when our mantra is tore apart for the almighty dollar.

I eagerly await the end of this....transition... and want the normalcy and calm waters of the past. But, with such lack of respect from old ownership and new, I dont think it will never be like our old home again. The people of the forum should have had a chance to own it.. i would have gladly paid for some of his bmw..

I feel hurt and I have put nothing Into this place of higher education, especially when compared to the OG grf members and The mods... I can only imagine the....disdain.. that others are feeling.. my heart weeps with you.

I will continue to come here, and read, maybe write... (unless angie gets me good, like gold..) ...i just want to see it progress. For good or for bad. If good. Then hell yes, resurrect our library like Carnegie. If bad, well, then I guess i will see what rises from the ashes... ...our ashes.
 

patnor1011

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Gold Refining Forum Supporting Membership Benefits

  • Access to active private forums for Supporting Members only. :ninja:So some info will be private as it seems...
  • Recognition of your Supporting Member status
  • The ability to post in Classifieds without waiting :unsure: what is classifieds? does that mean that For sale section will no longer be available?
  • The ability to turn off advertisements. :cool: my browser does it already
  • Longer self editing time. (n)we used to have unlimited self editing time.
  • Unlimited private message space.
  • Unlimited file attachment space. :unsure: Aha... No more uploads unless you pay us!
  • Unlimited gallery space. o_O Aha... No more pictures unless you pay us!
  • The satisfaction that you are supporting Gold Refining Forum's future and it's role within the hobby as a library of knowledge and community.
 

g_axelsson

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Well said, Topher.

I find it very telling that the post that was created after her (@Angie) announcement of changes GRF changes has been locked and no further posts (questions) are allowed.

I find it very telling that a post of mine asking for a business address of the "Service" has been deleted without an answer. No, my intent for asking was not a nefarious one. I wanted to run a D&B report on their "20+ year old" business.

I find it very telling that a post where another member found another website that had a list of other forums/boards that the "Service" bought/controls/services is no longer available for view.

Is this censorship due to offending content? No. It's censorship of inquiries/questions that the "Service" finds uncomfortable to answer.
The "Service" appeared out of nowhere and still remains a mystery.

@g_axelsson - Goran, in your response about GRF Wiki, you are listed as a Staff Member, Administrator, and Moderator. The same titles that @Angie has. I sincerely hope that you have agreed with the "Service" to stick around and that they have made it worth your while to do so. The "Service" needs someone with your "chops" to maintain any sort of technical credibility and stewardship. Peace to you, brother!

James
Right now I think I'm more in the dark than most members. I just discovered this morning that the forum was moved to a new server. After the last outage with the DNS server I put in a static address in my local DNS so I have missed everything happening this weekend. I'm trying to read up on what's happened.

I think the way the change of ownership of the forum happened was handled very bad and that has created a lot of uncertainty and doubt. Not a good way to start this for Angie and Admin... whoever hides behind that account. It would have been so easy to just say hello and present the plans for the forum, give it a week and then make the move. Why the hurry? Now it's too late to make a first impression.

This forum is a big family for me. We fight, we help each other and I can't stand that oncle so I just avoid him... but it's still family and when a stranger appears and force their way in it creates friction but the family unites against the invader. This forum is not like other forums. It has survived many fights and bumps along the road.

When it came to help Noxx with administering the forum I was glad to and honored. It was all for the greater good of the community. No one was earning money from the forum but everyone gained from the discussions and information that was collected here.
Now, with a company owning the forum it's a whole new ball game. I haven't agreed with anything, all my new titles were there when I logged in. I haven't decided yet on what to do, right now I have mixed feelings. I certainly understand the feelings of betrayal, worry and sadness that I hear in the posts.

Time to read some more and find out what's happening.

Göran
 

Yggdrasil

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Good to finally see you Gøran.
Much of the "fud" has escalated since the mods/staff we knew was completely abscent as well.
Maybe we can get back some sanity again now when you guys finally seem to wake up 😏😈

But the trust and goodwill that was there, I'm afraid that has gone for many of us.
To make matters worse, I sent a PM to Angie with tips and advice on what I felt needed to be done to regain some trust and also the urgency of this.
There was no reply.
And with the new software I can't even see if she has read it.

I still hope we can rescue the forum, but my belief that it can be done, has not been strengthened so far.

Thanks again for your information Gøran.
 

niks neims

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Gold Refining Forum Supporting Membership Benefits
  • Access to active private forums for Supporting Members only.


Angie said:
Yes, GRF will always remain free and open

free and open you say :D

but actuallly i would really like
g_axelsson
FrugalRefiner
or
to comment on my question - is there some kind archive of uneditable logs in this software regarding deleated posts, threads and edits?

I really can see no reason to post anything if this "Angie" person can just delete it all undetectably... I mean eaven when owned by "corporation" there should be some accountability, rules of conduct, guidelines or something...

there should be someone who cares about this angies job performance...
 

Nugget

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Members, I'm sorry for doing what is considered appropriate actions in other places. Man, have the mods been busy educating me about how thing are done here. They are very much protecting all of you and the forum. I'll be holding off now and unless it's harrassing or doxing related or very visible spam I won't be doing modding, etc. I'll check in to see if there is something I need to tweak.
But as to the content of the forum, I'll watch and learn from the mods.

Also, there is no required cost by any member. GRF is still free.
 

niks neims

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Members, I'm sorry for doing what is considered appropriate actions in other places. Man, have the mods been busy educating me about how thing are done here. They are very much protecting all of you and the forum. I'll be holding off now and unless it's harrassing or doxing related or very visible spam I won't be doing modding, etc. I'll check in to see if there is something I need to tweak.
But as to the content of the forum, I'll watch and learn from the mods.

Also, there is no required cost by any member. GRF is still free.

well that's a start...

I'm sure you understand that we would like to know more about the owner company - group builders, was it? please bring back the questions of the member you deleted previously, and the online references to you guys I & acpeacemaker found and linked. I would also very much like to read some positive feedback on you guys - feel free to link some forums where members are happy about your performance.

also. if this is now business under corporate ownership, could you please inform us how to contact your manager - you know, in case you are suddenly not reachable
 

Lou

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Nik,
That's above my pay grade (that's a joke because y'know... I don't get paid here) but in all seriousness, Goran and Dave know far more about logs and such but I'm not sure what is visible to us. I'm not quite computer illiterate but I imagine there's got to be a log of everything said and done somewhere. It's the internet, right? I'm just getting to the other thread that prompted this one so my feelings may be changing!


free and open you say :D

but actuallly i would really like



or

to comment on my question - is there some kind archive of uneditable logs in this software regarding deleated posts, threads and edits?

I really can see no reason to post anything if this "Angie" person can just delete it all undetectably... I mean eaven when owned by "corporation" there should be some accountability, rules of conduct, guidelines or something...

there should be someone who cares about this angies job performance...
 

g_axelsson

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Haven't found anything yet, but I'm trying to get to know the software.

Göran
 

4metals

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I have not been actively here per se of late, mostly due to working and what the forum had become, too many questions from members unwilling to do any research, and to few opportunities to discuss new topics and techniques. I have however been answering PM's from members, but my on- line presence has been patchy. Be that as it may, I came here today, Monday the 18th (10/18/21) was surprised as most of us have been.
I have put a lot of energy and passed on a good amount of technical knowledge here, as have many others and I personally feel it would be a shame for it all to be gathered up and reformatted only to restrict access if that is the new owners intent.
I have been texting about this with Lou and, while I could easily just pack it in and say it's been a good run, (since 2009) Lou suggested I stay on to help stabilize the situation. So I will give it a try. I know a few things about this business and I am still willing and able to share.
I did notice I am no longer a moderator, for whatever that may no be worth.
 

niks neims

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Nik,
That's above my pay grade (that's a joke because y'know... I don't get paid here) but in all seriousness, Goran and Dave know far more about logs and such but I'm not sure what is visible to us. I'm not quite computer illiterate but I imagine there's got to be a log of everything said and done somewhere. It's the internet, right? I'm just getting to the other thread that prompted this one so my feelings may be changing!



Im assuming in legitimate ("library", "preserve information", blah blah blah) forum software there should be logs&archives. but I know nothing about forum software...

as far as I can recall:
1) there was a post and a new thread by either palladium, cosmetal, acpeacemaker or Yggdrasil inquiring about owners company legal information that got deleted;
2)a post by myself where I tried to share my e-mail adress and a link to discussion on some questionable advertising practices on one of their other forums, that got deleted.
3)and most importantly - post that I regrettably failed to copy offline and I strongly encourage original poster to repeat - with a link to discussion on another forum that "group builders" tried but failed to acquire - and thus it's probably uncensored and could be the most truthful account of their business practices..

Of course I (noone?) have any idea if that was all that got deleted, once censorship starts...
 
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4metals

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I was reading in a locked thread about the changes to the forum and I came across a post from Harold. All of us who have been here for some years all know Harold.

First, in case some of you haven't read his post, I'll copy it here;


"I left this forum a few years ago, primarily because of the moronic way it allowed those who are disruptive to remain. I was clearly wasting my valuable time here.

I was also not thrilled to have been insulted by goldsilverpro, who found it necessary to discredit my accomplishments, most likely due to his life failure to perform. He's the guy who died still working at an advanced age. I retired, comfortably, when I was 54. His behavior is typical of losers, who often try to bring down those around them so they look better.


It didn't work. He was a loser then, and he's a loser now in death.


It appears to me that my choice in leaving when I did was the right thing to do.


One comment in regards to the new software. I really don't like it. It, alone, would keep me away from this forum."



Harold


You are what you write.

When I read this post I was quite upset, and I am not rattled easily. So after calming consideration I've decided to speak some truths about Harold and why he is no longer a participant in the forum. First off, Harold didn't just leave the forum of his own fruition, he was voted off by the majority of the moderators. And the reason he was voted off was because we all agreed that punitive actions towards members were to be administered after the moderators were polled and a majority agreed on a course of action. But Harold enjoyed his bullying ways and perceived power and within a week of everyone agreeing to vote on these things he acted on his own with an attitude of "damn you if you don't agree!"

So don't be fooled into thinking he left without prodding. Out of respect he was kept on the list as a moderator and little was said of the why behind his departure.

Harold found this forum in it's early days and was quite helpful to a lot of newcomers to the art of refining. But he did not like people to question his wisdom or point out alternatives. And Chris Owen, also a member early on, often questioned Harold's approach. Chris was a degreed chemist with a lifetime of refining experience worldwide, he freely shared his experience on this forum. This forum was a better place because of people like Harold and Chris and it was a sad day to hear of Chris's passing. his input on the forum is sorely missed.

For Harold to put Chris down for working for as long as he did speaks volumes to Harold's own words on every post he made "You are what you write". Harold, this post dropped you to a level of low class which I never expected from you.
 

FrugalRefiner

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I had intended to go back and address Harold's post as well, but with all that's been going on, I forgot about it. Thanks 4metals for bringing it up.

I don't think it was any secret that Harold and Chris didn't care for each other. But to be absent from the forum for something like 5 years, then to show up back here and spend half his post trashing some one who passed away is unconscionable.

Dave
 
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