Making Your Own Coinage.

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goldshark

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I think I would trust a Gold coated zinc penny over any fiat currency. At least it has an actual value, even over a $100 bill. It might be worth an actual .25 cents, where as a $100 bill may cost .20 cents to make? I don't know actual costs for the mint to produce a bill these days. Trust keeps the world going, at least for now. Gold is a funny commodity. You really cannot do much with it ,as it relates to other commodities. In other words, you can eat it, but I don't know of the nutritional benefits. Makes expensive bullets. Doesn't corrode, except in rare ,extreme environments. It does reflect a higher percentage of Infra red than any other metal, I have read. It may have some super power when it comes to solar radiation reflectivity.Not a lot of it relative to other elements on Earth. Long story short, many people have been brain washed into trusting fiat currency for everyday trade. There is not enough Gold to go around to cover all trade, hence Silver.Quite a bit of Silver, then maybe Tin ( thinking price per pound value), copper, etc, etc.
As far as an emergency situation for currency production after the next apocalypse? You would accept Gold in any form. If it is fake or falsely represented, you start back to zero, make some stockades, and invite your friends over for a god old fashioned flogging of the perps. After all, it is an apocalypse, any thing goes, for a while at least.

Rise and fall, turn the wheel, as life is, is really just a circle. BHTATM's.
Go with the flow, not the undertow. Me
 
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I just finished refining and intend to do my own coins. I will use the Delf sand casting. I read above and I will put my face on the coins (just as the queen has her face on the official currency). That should remove any confusion between me and the queen. I just finished digitalising my design in 3 D and printed a plastic coin for the mold. I also wrote moneta internationales on it since gold is a currency. And to make things very clear I wrote : Familia Goldorack.
 

Debbie K

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Dec 16, 2018
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I have tried making fine silver rounds in 1 oz increments for making sheet silver, and trust me, it isn't as easy as it sounds. I wish I knew how the mint does/did it, because I wasn't having much luck. I was using a graphite crucible and pouring into an ingot mold, and later, tried them in a wood mold (works fine, just do it outside as it will smoulder). The problem is in the pour; the metal pours all at once like mercury would.

The only way I can think of that I could make true 1 oz rounds by casting would be to weigh the silver before putting in the crucible and only melting that amount, which would be ridiculously labor (and energy) intensive. They (coin makers) must have some mechanism to cut off flow and extremely accurate temperature controllers so the flow/viscosity would be the same all the time. Way above my pay grade. I watched a video on historians trying to duplicate early English coining pouring into a series of molds and it was a pathetic mess. Much easier said than done.

Casting in investment would be much neater (much more than sand casting) but then you are left with cutting off a sprue and the inevitable shrinkage that occurs in the wax, investment and silver, resulting in something somewhere around an ounce. I would never want to mark something as 1 oz troy if it wasn't at least that. If it's over, I wouldn't be able to recoup that outlay unless I was marking it 1.01 troy oz, a distinction that most people wouldn't understand.

I think (and trust me, I don't know) that fine silver and fine gold are ingot cast and then rolled to a extremely precise thickness and then die cut to an extremely precise size to get the very nearly exact weight. That's how I'd do it, after giving it quite a bit of thought, and then die-striking the rounds.

I've also tried striking; made steel dies with engraving for this purpose. All I have to say is that, this too, is an art. I thought the problem was that I was a light-weight female, but even my 220 lb husband had trouble doing it. You really need to KNOW how to swing a sledge hammer, which neither of us do. Hence the popularity of striking machines, which are almost impossible to find for a small manufacturer. I actually have considered making a drop hammer, but changed over to a hydraulic press for my jewelry needs instead.

If I were going to do something like this for barter, I'd probably make a ring or bracelet out of sterling (holds up longer). People aren't as picky about exact weights in jewelry as they are in bullion.

As to determination of content, specific gravity is the easiest and one of the best ways to determine metal content of sterling and fine silver and the various gold alloys (with the exception of tungsten for gold). It's easy for people to understand and a lot less messy than all those acids and touchstones.

Just my opinion based on my experiences.

Debbie
 

cejohnsonsr1

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Sep 20, 2020
Messages
136
I have tried making fine silver rounds in 1 oz increments for making sheet silver, and trust me, it isn't as easy as it sounds. I wish I knew how the mint does/did it, because I wasn't having much luck. I was using a graphite crucible and pouring into an ingot mold, and later, tried them in a wood mold (works fine, just do it outside as it will smoulder). The problem is in the pour; the metal pours all at once like mercury would.

The only way I can think of that I could make true 1 oz rounds by casting would be to weigh the silver before putting in the crucible and only melting that amount, which would be ridiculously labor (and energy) intensive. They (coin makers) must have some mechanism to cut off flow and extremely accurate temperature controllers so the flow/viscosity would be the same all the time. Way above my pay grade. I watched a video on historians trying to duplicate early English coining pouring into a series of molds and it was a pathetic mess. Much easier said than done.

Casting in investment would be much neater (much more than sand casting) but then you are left with cutting off a sprue and the inevitable shrinkage that occurs in the wax, investment and silver, resulting in something somewhere around an ounce. I would never want to mark something as 1 oz troy if it wasn't at least that. If it's over, I wouldn't be able to recoup that outlay unless I was marking it 1.01 troy oz, a distinction that most people wouldn't understand.

I think (and trust me, I don't know) that fine silver and fine gold are ingot cast and then rolled to a extremely precise thickness and then die cut to an extremely precise size to get the very nearly exact weight. That's how I'd do it, after giving it quite a bit of thought, and then die-striking the rounds.

I've also tried striking; made steel dies with engraving for this purpose. All I have to say is that, this too, is an art. I thought the problem was that I was a light-weight female, but even my 220 lb husband had trouble doing it. You really need to KNOW how to swing a sledge hammer, which neither of us do. Hence the popularity of striking machines, which are almost impossible to find for a small manufacturer. I actually have considered making a drop hammer, but changed over to a hydraulic press for my jewelry needs instead.

If I were going to do something like this for barter, I'd probably make a ring or bracelet out of sterling (holds up longer). People aren't as picky about exact weights in jewelry as they are in bullion.

As to determination of content, specific gravity is the easiest and one of the best ways to determine metal content of sterling and fine silver and the various gold alloys (with the exception of tungsten for gold). It's easy for people to understand and a lot less messy than all those acids and touchstones.

Just my opinion based on my experiences.

Debbie
1st of all, you’re not going to make coins no matter what method you use. Only sovereign governments can authorize coinage and only sovereign mints can produce coins. You will produce bullion rounds.
2nd, mints, sovereign or otherwise, don’t pour coins into molds. Gold and silver is rolled into strips of very precisely measured thickness and then blanks are sheered into very precisely measured pieces, the dimensions of which are determined by the desired weight of the finished product. These blanks are then struck in presses at thousands of pounds of pressure using very fine dies.
 

Debbie K

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Dec 16, 2018
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7
1st of all, you’re not going to make coins no matter what method you use. Only sovereign governments can authorize coinage and only sovereign mints can produce coins. You will produce bullion rounds.
2nd, mints, sovereign or otherwise, don’t pour coins into molds. Gold and silver is rolled into strips of very precisely measured thickness and then blanks are sheered into very precisely measured pieces, the dimensions of which are determined by the desired weight of the finished product. These blanks are then struck in presses at thousands of pounds of pressure using very fine dies.
I never said I was making coins, I was trying to make rounds to roll for sheet. Thanks for confirming what I suspected was the case for "coinage" production; after much thought this is the conclusion I came to, as I mentioned in my comment. I do believe, however, in ancient times, rounds were poured and then struck. I was just sharing my practical experience with others who seemed to think that this was going to be an easy thing to do.
 

cejohnsonsr1

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Sep 20, 2020
Messages
136
I never said I was making coins, I was trying to make rounds to roll for sheet. Thanks for confirming what I suspected was the case for "coinage" production; after much thought this is the conclusion I came to, as I mentioned in my comment. I do believe, however, in ancient times, rounds were poured and then struck. I was just sharing my practical experience with others who seemed to think that this was going to be an easy thing to do.
In ancient times coins were poured and then roughly struck. But it was a very inexact method of production. If you really want to try to make your own blanks, a rectangular bar is a better shape to start with. It’s much easier to to feed through a roller. You’ll still have to find a way to stamp out your blanks. The equipment to do that with the required precision is expensive and most of the reason why almost no one can do it except for industrial scale production.
 

Debbie K

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Dec 16, 2018
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In ancient times coins were poured and then roughly struck. But it was a very inexact method of production. If you really want to try to make your own blanks, a rectangular bar is a better shape to start with. It’s much easier to to feed through a roller. You’ll still have to find a way to stamp out your blanks. The equipment to do that with the required precision is expensive and most of the reason why almost no one can do it except for industrial scale production.
I think it would be possible to strike with a drop hammer, which is why I considered making one. I was making stampings for jewelry and considered making multiples, so I carved tool steel dies which did work, but not reliably as I (and my husband) were not good at swinging a sledge hammer. I had a piece of round tool steel which was shorter than the collar it was placed in which was place on a steel anvil. Then I put in a round piece of fine silver and then placed the carved round die on top inside the collar. The dilemma is hitting the die absolutely square, which was beyond my capabilities. I figured if a made a drop hammer that weighed 10 or so pounds that traveled in a piece of pipe at a height of approximately 10 feet I could probably strike with enough force to get a good impression, but the rebound would probably double strike the stamping, which is why I gave up on the process. I think maybe some spring mechanism would solve the problem, but I lost interest in the project.

There are hydraulic jewelry stamping machines out there (usually antiques or very vintage) but they cost up from $10,000 or so. Deal breaker for me. I did find one for about $1,000 on Ebay once (a true antique) but it was more than I could afford. I have wondered if a trip hammer might do the job.

I was trying to pour rounds for another project, making rounded sheets for enameled pendants. The rounds (when rolled) made two half ovals which were perfect for what I was doing.

So, for those who are considering it, just be aware that it won't be easy!

Debbie
 

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goldshark

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The key is to anneal your metals properly. A 10 ton bottle jack in a press will indent the metal very adequately, maybe coupled with a 5 pound hammer blow, while under pressure. The metal round should come out hard, as it will be work hardened by the pressure.
 

cosmetal

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'THE “DROP HAMMER” COIN MINT was based on Leonardo da Vinci’s mechanical genius. It was the first industrialized tool of Renaissance times, perfecting the art of coin-making with increased accuracy over the previous hand-hammered techniques. The mint is operated using controlled amounts of accelerated gravity by raising a 150 lb. hammer to a height of 9 feet. The coins set between the two dies are struck with an incredible 40 tons of force!"



Peace and health,
James
 

Debbie K

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Thank you so much for posting this! I'll have to research Da Vinci's drop hammer; there's bound to be something mentioning it somewhere with maybe some plans. He drew pictures/plans of most of his inventions. But 150 lbs? Maybe with pulleys as I'm a small female person. There's bound to be a way to handle the recoil/bounce back.

Thanks Again!

Debbie
 

kurtak

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'THE “DROP HAMMER” COIN MINT was based on Leonardo da Vinci’s mechanical genius. It was the first industrialized tool of Renaissance times, perfecting the art of coin-making with increased accuracy over the previous hand-hammered techniques. The mint is operated using controlled amounts of accelerated gravity by raising a 150 lb. hammer to a height of 9 feet. The coins set between the two dies are struck with an incredible 40 tons of force!"



Peace and health,
James

Thanks for posting the video cosmetal

Back in 2016 another member posted about the same drop hammer coin stamp (different guy same device)


Note that there is a piece of pipe welded on top of the anvil that holds the striking dies with a round brass rod sticking out of it

I am sure there is a heavy spring (like a car valve spring) under the brass rod which is what prevents getting a "double strike" of the coin from bounce of the drop hammer

The brass rod would have to be "just a bit" higher then the strike die rod so that full drop force would hit the strike die but then stop the much lesser bounce force from hitting the strike die a second time

Kurt
 

kurtak

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I was trying to pour rounds for another project, making rounded sheets for enameled pendants. The rounds (when rolled) made two half ovals which were perfect for what I was doing.
Hi Debbie --- Per the bold print (above quote) --- VERY nice work :cool: (y):love:

Please show us some more of your work ;);)(y)

Kurt
 

kurtak

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I think it would be possible to strike with a drop hammer, which is why I considered making one. I was making stampings for jewelry and considered making multiples, so I carved tool steel dies which did work, but not reliably as I (and my husband) were not good at swinging a sledge hammer.

Again per the bold print --- A couple years age I decided to make some jewelry out of my sterling flatware stash (forks & spoons) & was having the same problem with hammer/anvil striking

I happen to have a BIG vice so I unbolted it from my work bench & mounted it on the wall - basically turning it into a horizontal press - "polished" a piece of flat iron & rounded the edges & mounted that to the bottom jaw of the vice so it wouldn't damage the underside of the sterling being stamped

Using the vice as a press gave me much better stamp results the hammer/anvil :D

Kurt
 

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Debbie K

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Kurt:

Love the forks! They look like octopus tentacles! Really good impression with those stamps.

I used a vise for pressing dies, too, but didn't think about mounting it on a wall; good idea! I didn't have a hydraulic press at the time so I improvised with a vise (Covid vacation, couldn't get to a shop I usually used) and made these pendants. I have found that the larger the die and the finer the detail the more difficult it is to get a good impression with a vise or 20 ton hydraulic press, hence my interest in striking.

Also including a picture of a carving/casting I made years ago and a few that are more typical of what I usually do. I'm primarily a gemstone carver; my metal work kinda sucks.

Debbie
 

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