muriatic/clorox droping with smb

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solarsmith

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
207
Location
denver co
I have remove rthe ore from the driveway. and now have an assay of 0.56 oz gold per ton.
crushed then ball milled down to silk (-200) I think. then 30 lbs into a froth column concentrated to about 20 grams.
dryed and then 3parts muratic and 1 part clorox. let sit for 2 weeks stirring every other day.. the mix did loose 1/3 in volume due to evap. I have now filtered out the solids. and have added some of the standard mix of smb...
this is what happens... as I add drops I see a brown red dust form around the drop in the muratic/clorox solution
then it very quickly disaperes or is redesolved in to the solution(about1/2 quart) I have now put in about 3 grams of smb and no precipitate.

do I need to nutralize the muratic/clorox?

do I need to just dilute the muratic/clorox?


should I just keep adding smb.. or somthing elss?

any help would be realy apreciated thanks BRYAN SMITH

wishin fer a spell chek
 
if you did use 30 pounds of your 0.56 oz/ton you cant see any big amount of percipitated gold and it can also be in very fine particles.
as 0.56 oz is 17.41 grams per ton and your 30 pounds equal to 13.6 kilo you are looking at getting 0.236 gram of gold from 30 pounds
 
ok yes its 0.56 oz per ton gold. there is 1500 lbs here at the house... there is 20000 lbs in the drive way at the mine. there is at least 500 tons with in 50 ft of the discovery site. thats 511.5 tons =286.44 oz of gold.
froth floatation normaly runs at 85 to 96 percent recovery rate. the gold vein on my 30 acres of property ocurs under at least 25 acres. never getting much more tha 50 ft below the surface. the drive way is were it comes to the surface. and I have not been able to dig all the way through the vein at a 45 degree angle. it is already looking like a thick vein. the average for this mountain is 0.5 oz per ton. with veins ocuring every 60 to 80 ft. Im not woried about getting a quarter gram out of 30 pounds of rock... im woried about getting a quarter gram of gold out of a half quart of muratic/clorox. as in computers reduce to all parts with pgms. then concentrate with acid wash ,then refine. in my mine I am crushing, milling ,floating, acid washing, and then refining.
thanks BRYAN SMITH

Im very new to working with the chems Im just trying to get the 1/4 gram of posible gold out of the 1/2 quart of muratic/clorox....
 
solarsmith said:
Im very new to working with the chems Im just trying to get the 1/4 gram of posible gold out of the 1/2 quart of muratic/clorox....
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It may not be there, and likely isn't. Removing gold from ores with acids is generally not an acceptable method of extraction. There are far too many elements present that consume the acid, or there may even be base metals present that have the ability to cement any dissolved values.

Does your solution test positive with stannous chloride? If not, you're wasting your time.

Harold
 
james122964 said:
leave it sit or heat slightly to drive off excess free chlorine
Click to expand...

This is good advice. You must first drive off any excess chlorine, before trying to precipitate any values.


solarsmith said:
Im very new to working with the chems Im just trying to get the 1/4 gram of posible gold out of the 1/2 quart of muratic/clorox....
Click to expand...

A Stannous Chloride test swab will give you an indication, if there are PM's in solution. It will also tell you when your test solution is barren. Also, be aware that a 1/4 gram will be difficult to work with, and any losses due to spills, drips, and so forth will have a great impact on your recovery percentage.

Use the search function, for Stannous Chloride, HCL/CL, SMB. There is tons of information regarding these subjects.

Good luck on your tests, and may your driveway be paved with Gold :lol:,
Gorfman
 
Solar smith, sounds like you are pretty well set up for the mining. and that you have concentrated, by specific gravity? what are you useing for froth floatation besides maybe air? have you determind the type of ore sulfides chorides etc.? roasting can be a clue to type of ore,or there are chemical test, these can have an effect, did you burn incenerate calcine the ore to drive off acid the rock was made from, this is an important step, and as harold stated acid recovery on or is challenging and usually on large lots not cost effective, using alot to get rid of base metals in ore before your leach will start picking up any value's, I have done some high Iron ore and thought I would never get the iron out of it, a pretreatment like calcining fusing in salt or other is sometimes very helpful.
how about doing an assay with flux (adjusted to ore type) a basic borax, soda ash,sand or crushed glass, sometimes oxidizers like KNO3, and lead oxide as collector of gold and value , then cuppel bead, on a measured portion of your concentrate,also calculating the amount of original ore used to concentrate, sorry can't remember portion but much of this if you already don't know is easily found, also the type of rock you have can have a big effect on the acids or the condition you use them in, some ore may dissolve in say cold HCL and others may not till boiling or another may not at all but can easily dissolve in H2SO4 sulfuric, just as metals react in acids,
there are also flame tests that can reveal what you are dealing with.
You may know more about all of this than I do as I only dabble in mining, but maybe your over looking something, we all know how gold fever blinds us. I still remember woking my hind end off on some hard rock took me about a year to open my eyes to see yes there is values there and plenty of copper in the ore, and would be a very profitable mine, ___BUT only if I was a big corperation with money resources, labor, equiptment and all that junk a guy busting rock and hauling it home in a pickup do's not have. hope this give's you some clue to suceed. good luck
 
solarsmith;

I don't know if your method would be the most efficient financially on a large scale, but as a quick, rough proof method, the reduction of 30 pounds to 20 grams doesn't sound so bad. Sprinkling a little sodium nitrate or potassium nitrate into it, instead of Chlorox, would be a lot faster, though.

That your SMB produced a brown red dust around the drops should indicate the presence of gold. Does anyone else know what that could be? And it would re-dissolve if there was still chlorine in the solution. So it sounds like the Au is in there.

If it is re-dissolving, it would probably do the same thing with stannous chloride testing solution, and not show color at all.

Letting it sit for two weeks to dissolve PMs seems like a pretty long time, and could have already evaporated most if not all of the chlorine already. But the appearance and disappearance of the brown red cloud around the SMB drops sounds pretty convincing that there is some chlorine remaining.

I would heat it below boiling to evaporate any chlorine that might be left, then test with stannous chloride. I'm not sure how long it would need to be left on the heat, but take a drop out of it from time-to-time and test it.

Maybe someone else here can say how long it should be heated to be sure the chlorine is all gone.

P.S. If your test worked, you would be recovering about nine dollars of Au, going by patnor's math, with less than 50 cents worth of chemicals. That doesn't sound so terrible either.
 
very good to know that I can use heat to drive out the clorine. I will do this tonight. and see if any thing drops.
yes I expect a very high contamination rate.. the 20 grams is probly now only 2 grams or less in the solution. I will have a better idea when I get things to drop. then I will do test for gold and platinum with stanis . then on to a crucible and cupola... I am hopeing to cut the iron content back at the floatation column by getting the ph up to 11
with lime. a second grind and a second float should get it up over 50 percent metalics due to the fact that im useing a flotation column not a floatation cell. there is a big diferance... I need to start posting pics soon


thanks BRYAN
 
I will have a better idea when I get things to drop. then I will do test for gold and platinum with stanis .
Click to expand...

It is important to test before you drop. Testing before will not only tell if you are wasting your time, it can give an indication of how much if any to expect.

Then test after to confirm a complete job.

People here don't advise you to steer you wrong, only to help.

You would be wise to pay much closer attention.
 
becase it is from ore. the stanis could tell me a lot of things there are over 30 elaments in the origonal ore.
Im not against its use and expect to use it a lot. Im epecting my firts drop to be very thin in pgms.
just running through the process to learn how to deal with all the new things that I need to do. For to night I will be warming the muratic and clorox to drive out the clorine, and since iv already put in the smb It should drop something.
then I will re run to purify and start testing then with stanis... but only if I have enough to work with.. Iv got a lot more in the works that I can add to it.. thanks for every ones help im not ignoring any ones advice .. Im doing this in very small steps.... for now just learning the process ... then quality... then quantity thank to every one. BRYAN
 
Bryan,
Sulfides are your enemy.
Soak your ore in dilute sulfuric, then wash well.
Then roast it for an hour at 500C.
I'll bet your results improve.

Mark
 
Why not sell the ore? or have you tried, and found that there are too many penalty elements?

Jim
 
solarsmith said:
then I will re run to purify and start testing then with stanis...
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You are missing a very important message here. Stannous chloride isn't something you use when you feel like it----it is the eyes of the operation. All of the motions you are describing may be for nothing, which is what I tried to tell you originally. If you have not tested the solution currently, I can't begin to understand why you'd expect any kind of return. That's not to say you won't get one-----but testing is like a gas gauge on your car. Do you jump in and set out on a drive across the desert, not knowing if you have fuel, or how much?

Same thing.

It strikes me odd that you are willing to spend hours screwing around with a solution that is unknown, but unwilling to take a test that would take all of 15 seconds.

I can't help people with that kind of mindset. They aren't looking for guidance, they're simply talking about what the hope to achieve. Only when they fail will they start listening.

Harold
 
These are the two most important thoughts you must consider. IMHO

markqf1 said:
Sulfides are your enemy
Click to expand...

Harold_V said:
You are missing a very important message here. Stannous chloride isn't something you use when you feel like it----it is the eyes of the operation
Click to expand...
 
I have not made any stanis yet . if I had I would be useing it at every step..Yes I may be putting the cart befor the horse by not making stanis first... once I have a batch made I will probly not ever work with out it. I do have a spot plate and every thing I need to make it... I expect to use it on the froth cons constantly to fine tune the reagents I am using as colectors in the column...

I have read a lot about roasting to drive out sulfides and I will try this after I make the stanis so I can mesure what efect it has on the process... Im still at the very begening of all of this ... I will have to put together a flow chart so every one including myself can keep track of the process and tweek it as needed...here is a start.

1 unlimited supply of gold ore in the ground assay of 1/2 oz per ton

2 dig ore out of the ground

3 crush ore to large sand

4 mill ore to -200 fine silk

5 float ore with natural biodegradable oils in water and air column. byproducts used for bricks and

6 dry concentrates

7 test with stanis

8 roast cons ....capture and nutralize byproducts of roasting

9 concentrate refine via acids

10 concentrate refine via heat crucible

11 give frist 20 oz to wife insted of a sweater for christmas!
 
solarsmith;

Stannous chloride can only detect dissolved gold (and a couple other PMs) in solution. It won't do anything with particles of gold, not even very small ones.
 

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