my plan for pre-chemical treatment of IC's

Kubik_Rubik

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Hello. I first placed a query in the topic
Code:
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=11827&start=720
, but then i noticed, that tutorials are no question area so im sorry about that.

I plan to start processing BGA chips and other ICs this year. I studied a lot of procedures and prepared a plan that I want to try and I would very much like to know your opinion. This is a pre-chemical treatment:
- pyrolysis and incineration
- ball mill grinding
- sieving through a 2mm sieve - to remove thermal spreaders
- removal of the finest fraction using bucket separation as used by Successful Engineer in this video: https://youtu.be/BQFNG_FXgZg?t=1037
- drying and sieving with 60 - 100 sieves + magnetic separation
- processing using sluice with dream mini mat like this one: https://paydirt.se/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_97&product_id=423 Do you think this mat is good option for catchning bonding wires?
- then maybe concentration on the miller's table, but again I don't know if it's suitable for working with bonding wires.

I originally planned to use the Gold Spiral Wheel, but with postage + VAT it's a very expensive solution for me in Czech Republic.

Do you think this could work or if you made any changes. Thank you so much for your tips, I can't wait to try it.
 

etack

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This is what I do. I

Burn, Ball mill, Was off ash, and melt. Then Cu cell. You can never be 100% what's on the other metals so keep them and run them.
 

Kubik_Rubik

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Thank you for answer.
To be honest, I had to find out what a Cu cell is. It looks very good, but I don't think it would be suitable for me. I like the mechanical part of separation using the sluice, etc. as kind a form of relaxation. I'm just not sure if these mats designed for use in the river will work well for the separation of bonding wires and which type would be most suitable. I like the previously built dream mat mini cell, but maybe another type of surface would be more appropriate. I'm also not sure if Miler's table or a blue bowl will be more appropriate for the final concentration. Miler's table is more accessible to me, but I have never seen it used for this purpose.

Thank you and everyone have a nice Easter.
 

booneire

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hello

I just seen your post. I'm not sure if you have processed your BGA by now..

there's a YouTube channel.its called backyard scrapping. in one of his latest videos, it's part of a series., he using gravity separation to get down to the bond wires.. I find it very easy to do and very easy to follow. he also looks over the tailings with a microscope to see if there any bond wires got through his separation method.

is recommend doing it this way first..you might loose dome bond wires using a sluice if running your water to fast..make sure you keep all your tailings just in case.

let us know how you got on and what method you used.

gold bless you
 

Kubik_Rubik

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booneire:
At first I apologize for reacting so late, the last few months are very hectic. I haven't started processing chips yet and I probably won't make it this year. I work for two people at work now and due to a lot of paperwork I don't have much time to process boards, etc. This year I want to at least construct a ball mill and sluice with a closed circuit and a pump with regulation. Then also collect enough chips to process.
I was looking for the video you were write about, but I couldn't find it, please do you have a link? The idea is to find the optimal slope of the sluice and the flow of water to trap almost all the gold bondwires while removing maximum carbon.

It's still mainly relaxation and hobby and I'm looking forward to it, I have about 2 tons of boards containing gold corners BGA chips and a lot of other material. It will take a long time, but there is no need to stress.

Thank you for your response and have a good time.

I would also like to know: don't you have a tip, which pump would be optimal for a 12 "wide sluice and extra fine material? Do you think 0.36l / s will be fine, or would you prefer a larger / smaller flow? I want to use a 12V pump together with a stepless motor regulator .

Thank you
 

FrugalRefiner

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Don't worry if you're not back the net day to respond. A lot of our members only make it here once a week or once a month. We're just glad when someone responds to the advice we try to provide. :)

As a hobby, you're doing things exactly as you should. Take it slow. Spend your time studying just as you are doing. When you do run into a problem in the future, we'll be here to help you because we know you've done your homework.

There are several ways to process integrated circuits (ICs, or what most people call "chips"). Each method has its advantages and disadvantages. As a hobby, pyrolizing, incinerating, panning/sluicing, is popular. It's within most people's capabilities, but there are losses. It depends on your priorities.

There are other values on those 2 tons of boards after you removes the ICs. Whether it's worth your time to pursue is up to everyone's personal situation.

There is always a question worth asking: Are you better off stripping components off boards, processing them, recovering the values, refining them, disposing of wastes, etc., or are you better off selling the boards as they are, then spending the money on gold and silver to stack. Many members "cherry pick" the best components to process themselves, then sell the rest to a buyer. But they will get a lower price from the buyer than if they hadn't removed those "cherry picked" components. It all depends on your personal circumstances.

I don't know that anyone can answer your questions on pump volume, sluice angles, etc. Use what is available. Adjust your system as you go. Check what you're capturing and what is getting through. Adjust your system. Check it again. Tweak it until you're happy. :D

Dave
 

nickvc

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For a sluice I believe you need to aim for 1 inch drop over 3 feet and the water volume will need to be adjustable and testing done to check for any loses before you find the sweet spot.
 

Kubik_Rubik

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FrugalRefiner:

Thank you for answer.

I try to learn different processing procedures. When reading the description of the procedure, or watching the videos, it looks clear and obvious, but when I imagine how I move myself during the processing of a specific waste, I still have questions: "how exactly ...?" "what if ..?" etc. So I'm very happy to have a place to solve problems or ask for details.

I honestly don't know many ways to process ICs - apart from the above-mentioned Cu-cell, wet ashing and classic incineration and gravitational separation, which I find most relaxing. I hope that I will be able to fine-tune the process so that losses are minimal and, in addition to amusement, there was a reasonable profit.

So far, I'm cherry picking and planning to sell the rest to a large e-waste company. For example, I only remove gold corner ICs from the motherboard, and then remove all fe-metal components and large electrolytic capacitors to increase attractiveness. I do the same with other boards. So far, I mainly collect CPUs, ICs, gold fingers, golden legs transistors, gold plated pins, old silver contacts, old Soviet capacitors, etc. After processing, I may re-evaluate some items. I don't have the capacity and time to process the boards completely (mlcc's, etc.), so I'll sell the rest after cleaning.

But the fun is probably the main thing. I can make more money at work by selling car wreck spare parts, but it's so boring for me. It's like a treasure hunt. Today, for example, I found a 15 kg color painted copper rod in scrap metal, which someone throws away with the fe-metal srcap. It was a good feeling, but it was better to find three old czechoslovak URS connectors (https://youtu.be/05R4PGc8yZI), although they have a much lower price:)

nickvc:

Thank you for the tip. That's about 4.5 °. The gold prospecting pages recommend 5-7 °, so I will be trying in these limits. Only for 12 " sluices they recommend a flow of up to 4 liters per second, but it is probably for processing river gravel and sand. For ultra fine carbon from ICs I hope a smaller flow will suffice. So far I have ordered a pump with a flow of up to 2.2 l / s and stepless regulator, so I'll experiment and hopefully I can find a sweet spot.

Thank you for your answers, I am very grateful for this forum, where I can find information and help with problems.
 

Kubik_Rubik

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One more thing keeps bothering me. I have roughly planned every step, but I'm still not sure how to get captured gold bonding wires from the mat to a beaker, if possible without losses. In prospecting videos, they wash the mat in a bucket of water.
So carefully wash the mat in a bucket, let gold settle for a while, pour out a water and sediment with a little water pour to a beaker. Then rinse the remaining sediment with a spray bottle.
Is this the right procedure? Thank you
 

Martijn

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I just did a small amount of chips and found that some bonding wires float easily if there is an air bubble attached and some just lay on top of the water.
Break the surface tension with some dish washing soap and check with a loupe if any are floating. You may flush some of them out if you're not catching all your wash water.
Getting all of them out ouf a miners moss mat may be hard to do.

I've seen a thin plastic sheet over the water used on a shaker table on you tube to get the smallest gold flakes to sink.
Pan out the concentates and the redo the washed trash until no more gold is visible after panning. Clean it far as you can, but you can leave a bit dirt in. There will be other metal particles in there you will need to clean out.

I went for aqua regia with the final concentrates after an AP leach to get all copper out and got 0.18 gram of gold from 150 grams of ram chips.
20210710_134822.jpg

Martijn.
 

FrugalRefiner

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Whenever you're sluicing/panning your concentrates, it's a good idea to do it in a "closed system", meaning that you capture everything that passes through your sluice/pan. It's as simple as panning everything in a large tub, like a ~18 - 20 gallon plastic storage tote. If you're too aggressive with your sluicing and/or panning, and some of your values pass through, you still haven't lost anything. Re-sluice/pan whatever makes it into the tub. If you don't find any further values, your system/techniques is good. If you find additional values, modify/tweak your system.

You don't lose anything until you throw something away.

Dave
 

Kubik_Rubik

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Thanks for the anwers.

Martijn: Did you only use a pan or some kind of sluice? I already have this mat: https://paydirt.se/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=490 The 8 "version would probably be better, but I hesitated and it is sold out everywhere in Europe. It will probably eaiser to wash out, than the miner's moss, we'll see. So washing the mat in a bucket of water and letting the concentrate settle is the right idea? I know about the need to use a detergent, I just don't know if a classic thick dishwashing detergent or an alcohol-based window cleaner that could foam less would be better.

Still not sure what to use for the final concentration after sluicing, if only a pan, a blue bowl, or a miller's table. Miller's table is the most available for me, but I haven't seen it used on bonding wires yet, so I don't know how it would work.

Beautiful look BTW.

FrugalRefiner: It is planned to use a closed system for each step, to throw away the waste only after checking under a microscope that is already on the way. I intend to keep the pins that I separate with a sieve, as well as the heavier fraction separated during sluicing, which should contain silicon die fragments - both fractions should contain remnants of bonding wires. I have no idea how to process the pins yet, but silicon fragments may be process by using the poor man's AR, once in a while.

I still don't really know which water pump to buy for a 12 "wide sluice, I probably have to try it : ) I'm still thinking how often to change the water in the bath, or if it is possible to use a chlorine-based pool preparation against algae, etc.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to starting to experiment in practice and asking about real problems here and not just theorizing:)

Thank you for your help and tips.
 

Martijn

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I just panned it after mortar and pestle grinding(dust mask!) , sieving and magnetic separation.
Your dreammat should work fine and there's no risk of wires getting stuck in fibers. You can flip it over in water and all the heavies will fall right out of the holes. Or carefully rinse it off in a big catch bassin.
How much flow you need for a sluice is trial and error i guess. Have a bypass valve to control flow and a way to adjust the angle of your sluice.
 
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