NEED HELP, THINK I MADE A BOO BOO

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If you want I can get everything and bring it to you.But don't throw away the shor stuff.........keep it for your foils and karat jewelry.
If you want to get the products yourself here is your shopping list.
Muratic acid(You already know where to buy that since you have purchased it already)
(nitrate)NaNo3 sodium nitrate.Ace hardware under the name Nitre of Soda.

(percipitant)SMB Sodium Metabisulfite.Can be found in most Ace hardwares or Home Depots by the name Stumpout(manufactured by Bonide).
smb is kind of pricey so I use Copperas.Also can be found at ace.

And I believe you have everything else,filters,containers,melting dish,torch.
Johnny
 
Thanks so much Johnny, I appreciate it. I wouldn't even mind coming by your house and seeing how you have things set up and you could even show me how you run a batch to give me a little more insight/hands on teaching since we didn't get that far that day you were over. Thanks again for all of your help and hope your having a nice day.
 
Trust me you don't want to come here.Its mess and we have some of our stuff packed for the move,still trying to go on vacation and trying to get a friend to take care of our dogs.So we are kind of crazy around here right now.
Johnny
 
Sorry about that chris.I'm gonna take a hiatus for a while anyways,so you guys can have a break from my long winded responses.
Sorry again,
Johnny
 
Yes, sorry about that. I am still wondering if someone can answer my question I copied below. I would really appreciate it...Thanks

Quick question I need to know: After I have dissolved base metals in HCL how do I seperate the two? (from the gold) What is the best way of decantering that without losing my gold? Am I supposed to wait until the base metals are COMPLETELY dissolved? In other words, are the base metals supposed to dissapear or be completely gone or just reduced to an amount that it doesn't contaminate your gold in the AR solution too much?
 
Quick question I need to know: After I have dissolved base metals in HCL how do I seperate the two? (from the gold) What is the best way of decantering that without losing my gold? Am I supposed to wait until the base metals are COMPLETELY dissolved? In other words, are the base metals supposed to dissapear or be completely gone or just reduced to an amount that it doesn't contaminate your gold in the AR solution too much?

I wonder why you are using HCL and not nitric? is it tin you are after?

gold will not dissolve in HCl without a strong oxidizer, even copper will be hard to dissolve without some oxidizer, the trick is to dissolve all the base metals (you can not expect a complete seperation as there will always be some left or else some gold in solution), and yes you want all base metals in solution that you can,
if you do not dissolve all of the base metals any gold which is in solution will plate back to the remaining copper (undissolved metal) you will not be able to tell the gold powder from the gold powder by looking, so the notion that a person can just dissolve the gold off the copper and leave the remaining base metals undissolved is a false one (at least with these chemical methods) dissolving all of the base metals is nessary or you will still have gold with the undissolved copper.
if you do not throw out filters and keep a stock pot you will not loose gold, although you can missplace it for awhile, and you also need to have stannous chloride , or else how are you going to tell if gold is dissolved in solution? just the color of a solution can be an old trick to fool you, but a properly applied stannous test can be a tool to see for sure, why eliminate the base metal, it isn't only the contamination of gold from base metals as much as it is the problems they cause with the process, and your ability to get and keep the get gold where you want it through out the process, decanting is a process of removeing the liquids (dissolved base metals and leaving the gold powders or flakes at bottom undisturbed) this can be done by pouring off liquid slowly, or a small hose to sypher off liquid, or a suction bulb type syringe or eye dropper to remove liquid, (filtering the decanted liquid is always a good Idea as you may have some powder or floating foils),
and metalfish, aqua regia is hard for a beginner to master HCL/ Bleach method is somewhat easier, as eliminating the oxidizers can be where most will have trouble from testing and precipitating.

hope this gives you a few clues, as I have not followed where you are in this process and what materials or your process up to this point.
 
butcher: THANK YOU! I kept getting the advise to dissolve the base metals in HCL but in Hoke's book along with other things I have read say nitric so I did not understand why I was being told HCL but I was trying to follow as I was told. Unbelievable, I was right but I was trying to take everyone's advise here and you can see in previous posts that I was being told HCL. Maybe everyone misunderstood what I was after. Wow...havent even finished reading your post but just had to respond to that immediately! Thanks again :lol:
 
buther: right now we have about 1 1/2 lbs "pins" in HCL dissolving base metals as we have been told to. Now we are trying to figure out how to get the junk decantered out without losing the flakes so thanks for your advice on that. Yes, we have been testing for dissolved metal in solution so we know all about that. We use AR method through shor products right now but were about to start buying our chemicals from the hardware store and such like everyone else. I am interested in this clorox method. Can you or someone give me a link to instructions on that method? I haven't gotten that far in the handbook yet. Thanks so much again for your help and suggestions, extremely helpful!
 
What would happen if I added a little too much Nitre of Soda to my AR solution? Is this possible and/or what are the problems that will arise from this?
 
I was removing base metals with HCL with a small amount of heat on a hot plate, it got a little carried away so I turned the heat down. I noticed there was a lot of substance stuck around the top of the beaker, I scraped it all off and poured it into a bucket together. I then added about 10tbs of nitric to it and now after an hour or so the liquid is testing not positive for gold and there is a sandy substance at the bottom. I know for a fact that my connecter pins were positive for gold so I know it didn't go anywhere. Should I maybe decant the liquid and re-refine it? I thought that might be the route I needed to take but wanted to check to see if anyone here had any thoughts?
 
Adding extra nitrate to the solution will throw the test off because of the extra oxidizer. Boil away the extra nitric and then test. Boil it down a couple of times each time adding hcl to make up the volume.
 
Thank you Palladium, I did this once and now I have a solid layer of grayish whitish foam on top which is crusty looking...would this be the extra nitric and okay to scoop off and remove? Thanks again, I think I am on the right track.
 
I have asked this a couple times but never really got a clear straight answer so forgive me for asking again but after I dissolve the base metals (the first I have been taught this is since joining this forum) what exactly do I do with the solution after that? Filter it and then proceed with AR?
 
Fish,

If you have removed the base metals using nitric acid or AP, simply let the gold powder or foils settle then siphon or carefully pour off the solution from the gold. Next properly was and then dissolve in AR, HCl-Cl ,etc. Be sure to test the solution for any dissolved precious metals before proper disposal.

Steve
 
Thank you SO much Steve, I am now perfectly clear on this now!

I have a couple more questions if someone doesn't mind answering for me:

Will HCl clean copper out of the gold if it has gotten in there before I dry and melt the gold?

Will precipitating your gold, will it ONLY precipitate gold or other metals also? Mr, know it all pete from shor international told me it would only precipitate gold but I have read posts on here saying you could drop base metals or other metals also. Please clarify this as I don't think Peter knew what he was talking about there.

I blew up a glass container on my hot plate, got too hot and it was too cool outside so the glass exploded. Luckily I was removing base metals and most of liquid was gone. The spill spilled onto the hotplate and table I had it on, very little on the ground, There is gold in all the shards of glass and whatnot and I am looking to salvage it, I picked up everything with gold on it and it is now in another glass container in an HCl in it. What can I do next to salvage this. Would I just go ahead and AR it?

What exactly does borax clean out of the gold? I think the water (tap) I have is doing something to my solutions. I don't know if I have copper levels in my water or not. I think it is screwing my tests up (stannous) and my gold powder.

Thanks in advance if someone could answer these for me, you guys are a great help, especially you steve, you really go out of your way to help and I will definitely be buying some of your videos just as soon as I have some extra funds and making a donation for the upkeep of this site and it is all due to you since I really have gotten the best advise between you and Harold. Thanks again steve for all your help you seem like a super nice good guy and you too Harold...No offense to anyone else as barren and butcher and a lot of you guys have given me GREAT advice as a beginner! :oops: :p
 
Fish,

HCl will clean small amounts of copper out of gold, especially if the copper is finely divided powder.

Excess SMB will convert some of the copper II chloride present in your solutions to copper I chloride which will form a solid and report in your gold powder. This is why you always remove the base metals before dissolving the gold.

Some PGMs, if present in the source material, will also report in the gold if the nitric is not fully removed from your solutions before adding SMB.

Treat the shards of broken glass with AR and you'll get whatever gold was stuck to them. The glass won't be harmed.

Borax is used as a means to help the gold form a nice button in the dish. It also serves to remove the last traces of contamination in the gold powder. Soda ash and a few pellets of sodium nitrate can also assist in the final clean up. Get in the habit of properly washing your gold after it is precipitated and you won't need to resort to any 'clean up' in the melting dish.

Steve
 
Too many cooks in this broth. From your own posts I see several missed steps, one step at a time and in the proper order.

At the risk of adding one more bit of advice, I think it's time you designate a driver to get you through this one.

P.S. I wouldn't think your tap water has enough copper in it to cause problems or you wouldn't be drinking it.
 

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