New Anode Bag Configuration

[kadriver]

I got some new style anode bags from Greg Stephens with http://www.anodeproducts.com

I described the basket to him, and he went to his grocer and bought identical baskets - identical to the ones I use for my silver cells.

He then fashioned 5 anode bags with draw strings. Instead of the bag inside the basket, it is on the outside. He sent them to me to try. If they work good I am ordering 100 bags from him.

Made of polypropylene material with double stitching.

kadriver

 

[element47]

What do you reckon is the advantage of the new config? Can the slimes be scraped off the internal basket, presumably after they dry? Or rinsed off, wet? I would think you're going to get some deposition on the internal basket and STILL have slimes deposited on the polypropylene bags.

 

[kadriver]

Strictly convenience for me.

I was using shop vac bags, and it took me 2 hours to make each bag.

The slimes should wash off the basket with a squirt bottle.

This is an experiment. The guy made them for me so I will give them a try.

The slimes will get into the bags as there are holes drilled in each basket.

kadriver

 

[niteliteone]

Any idea what he will be selling them for?

I'm tired of those bags from Lowes myself.

Tom C.

 

[Grassbur]

i got some bags made from him also 4 inch x 4 inch x 4 inch for when i make my stainless container a cell. i paid 25$ for 4 bags including shipping to TX. all the bags he makes have drawstrings on them and price varies on how much material is used. but very resonable priced. considering the stitch work is doubled. i say this because both my grandmothers were seamstress. and the work isnt very difficult but tedious. so his labor cost is around 1$ per bag, you wont find a better deal then that unless, made by yourself or your wife.

 

[kadriver]

He did not give me a price yet. I will contact him and get some more info and pass it on here on the forum.

So far the silver cells are working, but it seems very slow.

Could the thinkness of these bags effect the amount of silver being deposited?

And I don't see the little streams falling from the bottom of the bags like I am used to seeing.

The crystals were forming so slowly that I disconnected one of the cells and put the 3.3 volt power going to just one cell.

I will check it after a couple of hours and see if the crystals are growing faster.

Can the bag thickness effect crystal growth?

kadriver

 

[Palladium]

What's the micron rating on the bags?

 

[kadriver]

Palladium - I don't know. Will the micron size effect the rate?

I will ask Greg at Anode Products.

kadriver

 

[MysticColby]

interesting idea. I like the idea to have the slimes collect on the bottom of the basket only - seems it would be much easier to remove.

polypropylene - is that the recommended bag material? any other specs for good thickness / stitch count / etc.?

p.s. your work area seems to be getting more cluttered than it used to be

 

[kadriver]

These bags are very thick. The vac bags I was using were much thinner, allowing double bagging inside the anode basket.

I was getting some discoloration on the basket that was suspended in the electrolyte. Having the basket inside the filter will eliminate any possible contamination from the basket.

The best part is: it only took me 2 minutes to install each bag, instead of two hours.

Greg at Anode Products said he has some thinner material.

Today the silver is depositing much quicker. At first, there was almost no silver being deposited.

I am releived to see the cell working properly after starting off so slowly.

kadriver

 

[Grassbur]

Kevin i have noticed a similar situation on my cells when i used to use multiple bars in the anode basket and found that when they are not very flat and dont have a good connection, even though the silver nitrate goes up to the top anode, the cell would not funtion properly. i finally got tired of that problem and now make my anodes with a 20 oz mold so its just one anode in the bag and not several. i dont know if this was or is your situation but thought i might pass it on.

 

[MysticColby]

so the big question: how do we order these new bags from them? ^_^

 

[Grassbur]

Call them. Their contact information is on the website kadriver has a link to in the first post.

 

[kadriver]

Grassbur, that is a good suggestion.

When the bags were in the basket, there was much less room for anode bars. They seemed crouded.

Now, with the bag outside of the basket, there is much more room inside the basket. Putting a large bar in there is a good idea.

The cells are now running perfectly. I am using the 5 volt rail from the power supply and the crystals are fat.

kadriver

 

[kadriver]

Here is the reply I got from Greg at Anode Products:

Hi Kevin
The material sent was 13 o/z poly nap 5 microns I will sent you a few in 9 o/z poly lighter material 12 microns let’s see if they help

In 13 o/z poly nap run about 2.00 ea in 9 o/z poly 1.75 ea

Thanks

Greg Stephens

The bags I make myself cost about 8 dollars for two of them.

Furthermore, they cost about two hours to make.

This seems like a no brainer.

The photo in this post is of the heavier, 13 o/z poly material at 5 microns.

The lighter weight 9 o/z poly bags with 12 microns would be a better fit.

Will 12 microns ensure no slimes make it into my clean silver in the cell?

kadriver

 

[MysticColby]

12 microns...
that's 12 µm = 0.012 mm = 0.000012 meters
a human hair is around 40-50 µm
red blood cells are about 6-10 µm

gives you a sense of scale ^_^
anyways, there ARE dusts that are smaller than that. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/particle-sizes-d_934.html
it's all a matter of how much do you want to allow through vs. how fast it works. And not everything that's smaller than 12 µm will go through the net.

 

[kadriver]

Hello:

I wanted to report the results of the new anode bag configuration experiment.

The bags did not do so well. The silver that formed on the cathode was darker than usual, not a bright white color like I am used to seeing.

I took a small sample of the darker refined silver crystals and dissolved them in a test tube with dilute nitric acid.

The color almost immediately turned a pale yellow color - palladium contamination.

These bags seem to have altered the parameters in the cell and caused the palladium to co-deposit with the silver.

I had about 50 troy ounces in the cells, I was coounting on this silver for income - but I can't sell it with palladium contamination and call it pure silver.

I made new anode baskets with the original material from the vacuum cleaner bags purchased at Lowes as the filter material. Also, fresh new electrolyte.

I did not melt the contaminated silver crystals into anode bars. Instead I put the crystals right in the anode baskets filters and set an anode bar on top with a lug to attach the electrical connection.

The crystals are digesting nicely and the silver crystals forming in the cells are bright white and shiney like I am used to seeing.

Some yellow discoloration is forming in the electrolyte, but I expected this with the palladium being present.

For now, I would have to give these new anode bags a thumbs down. I will call Anode Products and let them know that the anode bags he made for me did not perform very well.

kadriver

 

[qst42know]

For now, I would have to give these new anode bags a thumbs down. I will call Anode Products and let them know that the anode bags he made for me did not perform very well.

A thumbs down?

You're not expecting the bag to catch palladium in solution are you?

 

[kadriver]

No, I do not expect the filter to catch palladium in solution.

I am simply reporting the results I got from using these new anode bags.

Something in the cell parameters changed when these new bags were put in the cells.

What parameter change occured - I do not know.

What I do know is that the silver, which was supposed to be pure, was contaminated with palladium - you could see the crystals were darker in places - not bright white as usual.

The test I performed confirmed the presence of palladium (at least as far as I could tell).

The "thumbs down" rating I gave to the performance of these anode bags is based solely on the results I got when I used them.

Hope this answers your question - kadriver

 

[Geo]

it could be a defect in manufacturing if its just one or even a couple, if its more than that then it has to be a defect in the material its made of. it could be too porous or the needle width is too great. sounds like you were having better results with your homemade bags.