Palladium Silver Gold metal fines and coated Tungsten filaments for sale

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bhaden57

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Joined
Jul 14, 2022
Messages
11
Two materials

1)
I've got 125 lbs. + of Tungsten evaporator filaments used to evaporate our Pd/Ag alloy ( 20/80 % )in vacuum .
The precious metals are infused into the multi strand wire Tungsten filaments .
Several recycler/recovery companies have turned down recovery of this ( " not our specialty " , Ewww Tungsten ! " , " Not enough weight " , etc. " We'll give you 70% of lowest market price . " , " We'll settle at N % of market price at some vague future date .. " and so on ).
I'm looking for a fair price and fast turnaround .


This scrap is used wire filaments . They are multstrand Tungsten wire filaments used to evaporate the Pd/Ag alloy to coat it onto customer parts for our antigalling coatings.
The alloy is evaporated at high temperature and gets infused and fused into the wrapped , twisted Tungsten strands of the coiled wire basket filaments .
Each filament has about 0.05 - 0.15 grams of Pd/Ag alloy on it .


In addition we can sell the Tungsten scrap

2)
I also have several pounds of particulate grinding from inside the coating chambers that contains about 7.5 % Pd , 58% Ag and 1-2% Aul at ast assay( March ( . This is typical for this material. As it varies - Will provide sample for serious buyer of current batch .

It also has Ni , Cr , Cu and Fe in it but not much else.

Selling 9-35 lbs this time .
 

Swissgoldrefiner

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
108
Two materials

1)
I've got 125 lbs. + of Tungsten evaporator filaments used to evaporate our Pd/Ag alloy ( 20/80 % )in vacuum .
The precious metals are infused into the multi strand wire Tungsten filaments .
Several recycler/recovery companies have turned down recovery of this ( " not our specialty " , Ewww Tungsten ! " , " Not enough weight " , etc. " We'll give you 70% of lowest market price . " , " We'll settle at N % of market price at some vague future date .. " and so on ).
I'm looking for a fair price and fast turnaround .


This scrap is used wire filaments . They are multstrand Tungsten wire filaments used to evaporate the Pd/Ag alloy to coat it onto customer parts for our antigalling coatings.
The alloy is evaporated at high temperature and gets infused and fused into the wrapped , twisted Tungsten strands of the coiled wire basket filaments .
Each filament has about 0.05 - 0.15 grams of Pd/Ag alloy on it .


In addition we can sell the Tungsten scrap

2)
I also have several pounds of particulate grinding from inside the coating chambers that contains about 7.5 % Pd , 58% Ag and 1-2% Aul at ast assay( March ( . This is typical for this material. As it varies - Will provide sample for serious buyer of current batch .

It also has Ni , Cr , Cu and Fe in it but not much else.

Selling 9-35 lbs this time .
Hello...
Getting 70% of it's value dosent look that bad for this kind of material. I can't offer better price as our payement is fast.
 

bhaden57

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2022
Messages
11
Hello...
Getting 70% of it's value dosent look that bad for this kind of material. I can't offer better price as our payement is fast.
We got 95% from our previous buyer as we had a new batch every 6 mos - year . This material was easy for them to recover and refine apparently. It is much higher content than the usual cat cracker material they usually got from the local Texas refiners and oil processors .
The other buyers are used to jewelry and dental type scrap . This material is apparently typical only to certain refiners .
 

snoman701

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Oct 8, 2016
Messages
1,970
Location
SE MI
We got 95% from our previous buyer as we had a new batch every 6 mos - year . This material was easy for them to recover and refine apparently. It is much higher content than the usual cat cracker material they usually got from the local Texas refiners and oil processors .
The other buyers are used to jewelry and dental type scrap . This material is apparently typical only to certain refiners .
Why aren't you selling to your previous buyer?
 

Palladium

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95%... You better sell it to them then. I'm guessing they didn't refine it and bought it on value and once it got to their refiner he put the brakes on it. Just because someone advertises themselves as a refiner most time they are not. They are collectors who ship to a refiner.
 

Palladium

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About the best i could do is 85% on content. Then you would have to send it as one shipment, because on some of it i will lose money on and some of it i will make money. If you just send the crappy portion i would reject it. My accountability is 99% of recoverable materials. Been at this for about 15 years now so my reputation is excellent. If you find someone better i would jump on it quick. And just for note there is no super quick turn around. 30-45 days because of processing. Those numbers are only good for 30 days as rates are increasing and metal prices decresing according to market variables.
 

snoman701

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95% seems high, I imagine you are also paying treatment charges for weight through the door, as well as refining charges on a per ounce basis.

85% without any other charges is very fair. I was going to offer 85% on some of the grinding dust just to see how I can do on it.

My question of location in your other post was related to the initial belief that this material may not have been domestic in origin. At those quantities KYC will be important.
 

orvi

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85% is very fair as it was said. Established refinery could maybe go higher, but additive costs for refining PGMs could be dissolved only by big volumes of feed. Or very good paying buyer of PMs :)
 

Palladium

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I always hated hidden charges from the first day i started in this. A long time before i got into refining i got ripped off by a company i had sent a lottt..... of space materials to from JSC. To me it just confuses the customer and makes for a less than relationship. I understand why refiners do it to protect themselves, but i would rather just add all that together and charge a simple flat fee. The fee i give is always a flat fee with nothing else hidden or implied. Shipping is always on the customer coming and going. I also never buy or sale any metals from my business. I have an incorporated precious metals company that holds all my metals and a real estate holding company that owns all my equipment and land. I'm made zero dollars since i started this venture and actually lose money on paper every year.

Now when i go to sale those metals one day there will be a tax penalty, but i'm betting on the whole system going to hell before that or me dying first so my kids and grand kids will get it all. Tax and accounting wise it's a win win. My only regret is not having an heir who would take over the company and continue what i have started. All my kids run from the idea of chemicals and smells. So i guess the story ends with me except my work that will live on in my words here. I could quit today and live my life comfortably, but where's the fun in that!
 

Lou

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At work, we’ve processed I don’t know how many tons of these W coils. We call them “pigtails”. Most of the ones I’ve done were PdAg but I’ve done some gold and platinum pellet ones that were insanely good (over $1000/lb at 1800 Au). Exception not the norm. The chamber scrapings I’ve done by the pail. Usually very high grade.

Some times the customer takes the clean, shiny W back coils back, some times we buy it as scrap, just depends.

For PdAg, it would be a week or two. I would have absolutely zero interest in doing 125 lbs for 85% and returning the W. 70% is about right on these.

my opinion: they ended up cheating you because they were over paying you. This isn’t 5% margin material.

Fyi: I don’t even strip the gold or platinum ones in acid because the tungstic acid from aqua regia will hold several percent of the values. I completely dissolve the tungsten and then filter out the gold/platinum residue.
 

bhaden57

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Joined
Jul 14, 2022
Messages
11
95% seems high, I imagine you are also paying treatment charges for weight through the door, as well as refining charges on a per ounce basis.

85% without any other charges is very fair. I was going to offer 85% on some of the grinding dust just to see how I can do on it.

My question of location in your other post was related to the initial belief that this material may not have been domestic in origin. At those quantities KYC will be important.
It is All domestic in the sense it all comes from our own equipment . We buy 9999 Silver 9995 Palladium 80/20 alloy and evaporate it as a coating material.
We get it as a coil of ribbon .
Our supplier provides origin certs as well .
The Gold is not very high as we rarely use it but is 9999 Gold .

There are other metals like Chromium and Nickel in it as we coat with those too .
We have ICP analysis but will do a new one on any batch we send out .

Yes , we normally pay a refining charge . It is nominal because of the weight.
Our last batch was 37.1 lbs .
Previous over 55 lbs .
Usually between 18-25;lbs .
Every prior batch was at least 7.5 % Pd and 40%-60% Ag .
Gold varies from 0.2 - 3.2% usually low .
 

bhaden57

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2022
Messages
11
At work, we’ve processed I don’t know how many tons of these W coils. We call them “pigtails”. Most of the ones I’ve done were PdAg but I’ve done some gold and platinum pellet ones that were insanely good (over $1000/lb at 1800 Au). Exception not the norm. The chamber scrapings I’ve done by the pail. Usually very high grade.

Some times the customer takes the clean, shiny W back coils back, some times we buy it as scrap, just depends.

For PdAg, it would be a week or two. I would have absolutely zero interest in doing 125 lbs for 85% and returning the W. 70% is about right on these.

my opinion: they ended up cheating you because they were over paying you. This isn’t 5% margin material.

Fyi: I don’t even strip the gold or platinum ones in acid because the tungstic acid from aqua regia will hold several percent of the values. I completely dissolve the tungsten and then filter out the gold/platinum residue.
The filaments are a seperate batch from the grindings .
. They become brittle w use and are not reusable .
My thought was that whatever Pd and Ag could be stripped from the filaments as the original content is 80/20;Ag/Pd at 9995+ purity.

The grindings from the tank ( vacuum coating chambers ) is a more mixed material.

So , there are possibly 3 batches - grindings at approximately 7.5+% Pd , over 50% Ag .
Grindings w. W filament pieces ( not yet complete so not yet analyzed ) . .
And Whole filaments w. Pd/Ag embedded.


I am simply looking for someone to recover what is available in each batch .

We usually only sold the granular/powder material we grind off the walls of the chambers when we clean them .
 

bhaden57

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2022
Messages
11
95% seems high, I imagine you are also paying treatment charges for weight through the door, as well as refining charges on a per ounce basis.

85% without any other charges is very fair. I was going to offer 85% on some of the grinding dust just to see how I can do on it.

My question of location in your other post was related to the initial belief that this material may not have been domestic in origin. At those quantities KYC will be important.
It is all produced by us as grindings from our chambers .
That is one batch and has several other metals like Cr and Ni .

The W filaments are used to evaporate 80/20 Ag/Pd alloy as well as other metals.
We separated the Ag/Pd filaments mostly in a separate batch .

We also have a batch of W filament pieces w. Ag and Pd and other metals.
 

bhaden57

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2022
Messages
11
At work, we’ve processed I don’t know how many tons of these W coils. We call them “pigtails”. Most of the ones I’ve done were PdAg but I’ve done some gold and platinum pellet ones that were insanely good (over $1000/lb at 1800 Au). Exception not the norm. The chamber scrapings I’ve done by the pail. Usually very high grade.

Some times the customer takes the clean, shiny W back coils back, some times we buy it as scrap, just depends.

For PdAg, it would be a week or two. I would have absolutely zero interest in doing 125 lbs for 85% and returning the W. 70% is about right on these.

my opinion: they ended up cheating you because they were over paying you. This isn’t 5% margin material.

Fyi: I don’t even strip the gold or platinum ones in acid because the tungstic acid from aqua regia will hold several percent of the values. I completely dissolve the tungsten and then filter out the gold/platinum residue.
The " cheat " was on content that had been previously agreed as valid by 3 different labs .
The 95% of market was the Agreement price after a refining charge of approximately $ 4500 on 55+ lbs .
This was over 7.8% Pd , over 50% Ag and about 2-3% Au .
Rest was a little Fe , some Ni and Cr with < 700 ppm W .

Again - we have different batches of material.
One is grindings as above .
One is W filament pieces w Pd/Ag and a little Au plus other metals as above .

Last is whole filaments w mostly Pd/Ag .
Some may have Ni or Cr and possibly a residue of the other metals that coated them from other filaments during a coating run .
 

bhaden57

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2022
Messages
11
Do you want the metal back as 9999 Au, Pd and Ag or just want paid less processing costs?
All depends on how you charge for refining and how you pay on recovered metals .
We use all the metals but in fabricated vs raw form .
Our metal suppliers ( alloy,ribbon,wire,etc. ) would give a reduced credit for raw metals so we usual just sell it to a broker or refiner instead of taking back the refined metal .
Depending on price and purity we might take back the metal and resell it but most buyers steeply discount refined metals from unknown sources even with lab assays .
 
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