Peroxide & HCL color

[toadiesop]

No I get it GSP and I believe you, I just thought "safe to do indoors" meant "safe to do indoors"

I read all the time that this was the safest way to recover pins, fingers and cpus. Apparently it's not.

No big deal. Now I'll just wait until I can get out of town.

Thanks for the info.

 

[lazersteve]

Toadie,

The method is safe to use indoors in a non-populated room. The fumes are not produced after the initial reaction except when evaporation occurs. The active ingredient in this formula is Copper Chloride, not peroxide or hydrochloric acid. The two ingredients initiate the production of copper chloride which in turn performs the dissolution of the base metals. You should read the document on my web site about copper chloride. Copper chloride is not volatile at room temperature and is safe if you wear golves and don't drink it. You can not dispose of copper chloride down the drain!!!

I would recommend that you mix up a small batch of the mix and get familiar with the process before bailing out. Take a 4 cup pyrex measuring cup and add an ounce of the fingers into the measuring cup. Add in 1 cup of peroxide and 2 cups of HCl. Let it sit in your bathroom near a window or somewhere else out of the way of pets, children, and traffic. Twice to three times a day swirl the mix and watch the gold foils begin to peel away from the finger boards. In four or five days all the foils should be loose enough to be washed off with a spray bottle of tap water.

You will be able to observe the reaction first hand on a small scale and then make your determination from there.

Steve

 

[toadiesop]

Excellent!! Thanks Steve!! I knew there had to be something else.

I'll definitely try the small batch you describe and go from there.

thanks again!

 

[lazersteve]

Be sure to read the referenced document. The guy did a superb job on detailing it.

Steve

 

[toadiesop]

I will read that doc Steve.

Well.... I'll read it again.... I did a while ago but I didn't "absorb" it since I was building my first cell at the time.

You can bet I'll pay a little more attention this time. 8)

 

[goldsilverpro]

I must admit that, before studying the pdf yesterday, I though that this was a O2/HCl proposition. I now realize it's an O2/HCL/CuCl/CuCl2 proposition. You still need free HCl and O2 for the system - to convert the CuCl to CuCl2. Otherwise, when the CuCl concentration reaches only 20 gm/liter, the reaction will nearly stop. According to a link on the pdf, to dissolve a pound of copper, it takes 1.87 gallons of 3% H2O2 and .32 gallons of HCl. In the quantities you're using, the HCl starts at about 8 Molar. According to the pdf, the fumes are still pretty strong until this is reduced to about 4 Molar, whereas 2.5 to 3.0 Molar is said to be best. But, according to the pdf, this takes from 3 to 10 days to stabilize. What happens in the meantime? Also, in the pdf, it is stated that, at 1 Molar, there are still fumes, even though they are far less.

The method is safe to use indoors in a non-populated room

Safe for both humans and metals or, for humans only? Who says that it is even safe for humans? The guy that wrote this otherwise excellent pdf seems to be as much of an amateur as most people on this forum. Is he a doctor?

Here's the way I would solve this. Place about 10 short pieces of pH paper in various spots in the room. Some near the solution and some farther away. Tape a couple of pieces to the window frame. After awhile, examine them. If they show red-orange or red, you have problems. Any concentration of HCl in the air will eventually corrode metal and no one can convince me that it's healthy to breathe this crap.

Toadiesop, I'm just trying to save you some repair money when you move out and, maybe protect your health. This is not an Alpha Dog thing. I really truly believe what I'm saying.

 

[aflacglobal]

You heard what the man said.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Besides, that dore bar won't fit.

 

[Harold_V]

snip-
Toadiesop, I'm just trying to save you some repair money when you move out and, maybe protect your health.

Damned straight. I ran my fume hood virtually non-stop 24/7, and still had corrosion in my lab, anywhere that I had exposed iron (steel). Even my anodized aluminum window frame was looking pretty sad when I sold the castle.

I don't care the source, or the level of dilution, there's fumes-----it's a matter of getting used to them, but I'm not convinced that when you do that they become any less corrosive. This stuff is damned hard on the respiratory system----just as is smoking. If you breath it long enough, there's bound to be a price attached.

This is not an Alpha Dog thing. I really truly believe what I'm saying.

The alpha dog statement was made by an individual with the mentality of a pigmy, and was uncalled for. I recall it all too well, and I have no use for that individual. Each of us have contributed to this forum on a level that would have taken years for others to, otherwise, achieve through experimentation and researching matters that have long ago been solved and well documented. I had no need to be an "alpha dog" then, nor do I now. There are some things that are absolute-----regardless of the source.

Like you, I firmly believe the things I post, all based on personal experiences and research, such as it was. You and I have had our differences, but that in no way diminishes my respect for your years of experience. I have considered that our objectives may have been somewhat different, particularly when I realize that your situation was a job------one from which you could move on. Mine represented me----totally. I was the refining business, and my decisions are what made or broke the operation. If it failed, I had no business to tend.

It stands to reason that each of us will have a passionate belief in that which we believe-----so when these things do not turn out identical, we're bound to have a heavy exchange of opinions. It's nothing to do with being an Alpha dog, and everything to do with a strong conviction in our knowledge base.

Having said that, I'm sure that you and I see things, in general, fairly evenly, but each of us is suffering with a case of having been away from refining for considerable time. I know I can still do the work, but I now have to think, whereas, before, it was routine. I can't help but think it's the same for you-----

I agree with your assessment in this case. There is no safe level for breathing fumes----just as there is no safe cigarette. Using these chemical compounds will, eventually, do damage to all types of electronic (and other) equipment------it's just a matter of degree.

Harold

 

[toadiesop]

Thanks Harold. I agree with you statement that the info that is in this forum it saved us nOObs YEARS AND YEARS of trial and error and definitely helps everyone be safer?

What do you think about my "fume box" idea?

On a side note, I went to my girlfriends uncles house for the first time yesterday. It's only about 20 mins away and he has a HUGE back yard in the middle of the woods. We talked gold recovery and he's really interested. So now I have a partner and some space!! Whoo Hooo!

I'm going "back to the woods" today so I'll be able to do my fingers and cpus in AP. I'm going to try to make a video tutorial from start to finish.

One question I have is about rain. If it's outside, it should be fine if it's loosely covered right? As long as no rain can enter the bucket?

Thanks.

 

[Harold_V]

What do you think about my "fume box" idea?

I don't think much of it, but only because you're pressurizing the container instead of pulling a vacuum on it. You'd be far better served to put a small fan on the discharge, after any filter you intend to use. There are many advantages in keeping a negative pressure on the box.

Harold

 

[aflacglobal]

Dam harold. you just answered my question i just posted for GSP.


Thanks.

Ralph

 

[toadiesop]

Here's what I got from my first acid bath..... so far.

I say so far because the bath stopped working a few days into it and I never got around to getting more HCl and peroxide before I had to leave again. So it sits 1/2 way done in the garage for another week or so until I can get back to it.

All the fingers were disolved but there was still a bunch of pins on a lot of the CPUs.

And I heated with hot water around the pails so I know I'll have to use SMB as well.

There's some "junk" in here but I'm not worried about that since it's going to be filtered anyways.

So without further ado. (one step closer to my first .999 nugget!! wooo!)



[img::]http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/1251/gold005mt3.jpg[/img]

 

[lazersteve]

Toadie,

Great start!

Have you rinsed the foils well with several washes of HCl? Be sure to let the foils soak in the HCl to be sure the copper is all gone if there are larger pieces of copper in the foils. Follow this up with several good water rinses.

How do you plan on dissolving the gold foils?

Steve

 

[toadiesop]

Thanks Steve!

Yeah, that's only 2 washes of HCl and then i ran out. It wasn't reacting too much by the end of the second rinse so I think it's pretty clean but I plan on rinsing it a few more times.

I'm going to use HCl-Clorox for bringing it into solution.

I can't wait to get back to where my buckets are so i can find out what's left on the cpus and what dissolved.

Should I use Urea first or can I just drop it out (SMB) without neutralizing it?

 

[lazersteve]

No Urea is needed. Urea is used to neutralize nitric acid in AR. Just add SMB dissolved in water. Let it sit overnight and don't expect much gold to be in the AP solution if any. You can test the solution with stannous chloride, but it's sometimes hard to tell if there is gold present. If you plan on reusing the AP don't bother getting the gold out at all. I drop the gold from the AP when I'm ready to mix up a fresh batch.

Let us know when you are ready to go to the HCl-Cl.


Steve

 

[toadiesop]

Can do. Thanks Steve.

Is there any way you can guesstimate how many grams I would have there. Minus a few for the little bit of debris. I REALLY need to get another scale! :lol:

The girlfriend asked me last night about how much is there but I don't have a clue. Maybe you could eyeball it. I think I need to take a better picture too! 8)

 

[lazersteve]

Is there any way you can guesstimate how many grams I would have there.

Toadie you know you are asking for the impossible here but, being the adventurous spirit that I am, I'll take a stab at it for you.

Judging from the size, color, and amount of debris in the pile I'd say more than one gram and less than three. I might be able to do better if you told me how far along the items were when you filtered out this portion.

Don't hold me to any level of accuracy here, it's merely a guess.
:lol:
Steve

 

[toadiesop]

:lol: yeah, I know it's impossible but that's about what I guesstimated myself.

There was no amount of "precision" in this batch. I've been collecting random "material" for months. If I had to guess, I would say 30% of the batch was ISA fingers and 486 era processors, another 40% was P1 era ceramics and pci fingers/slot cpus, the other 30% is hard to even "put an name on" so to speak.

That last 30% ranged from 1950's-2000's tech that I got for free and ripped apart (smashing ICs to find gold hybrids, whatever pins I could pull off, ect).

So I don't even know what went into this batch. :lol:

So just one question I have and I can figure it out myself, but since were trying to spread the info.... When the cpu pins come off the ceramic "whole" could they still be copper filled? Or does the fact that they fell off mean the bath got to it all?

I have a lot of full "cpu pins" in my sample but the second HCl wash reacted minimally.

But I digress, I'll get to Lowe's tomorrow hopefully and get some more HCl. I finally got my camera working again (obviously) so I'll be sure to keep updating.

 

[Palladium]

Replay !!!
Start on page one of this thread.

 

[Oz]

Dang! I boot-up the computer to read the forum a bit with lunch and see Palladium everywhere! Good to see you back Ralf, you have pulled up some good old threads that haven’t been seen for a while.