I am considering alternatives to liquid hydrogen peroxide, such as the oxygen detergents like Oxyclean and Tide with hydrogen peroxide. Most of those types of detergents are sodium perbarbonate treated with peroxide. It seems that if the powdered detergents were added to hydrochloric acid, they would release oxygen. However, because SP is a base (soda ash), it would neutralized the acid. I am not much of a chemist. If someone would give me some feedback, I would appreciate it.
Peroxide/Sodium Percarbonate
- Thread starter Joe
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macfixer01
Well-known member
Hi Joe,
I guess I'm curious why you want to eliminate the liquid hydrogen peroxide? Since the common 3 percent product works and is not overly expensive (less than $1 per quart around here at any drug store, Kmart, Walmart, etc.). I'm not sure if it would end up cheaper or not, but you could get a higher percentage peroxide at a beauty supply store and use less of it.
Sodium Percarbonate would be a bad choice. Dissolved in water it releases sodium carbonate along with the hydrogen peroxide. As you correctly assumed it would neutralize the hydrochloric acid releasing carbon dioxide gas and forming sodium chloride (table salt).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_percarbonate
macfixer01
I guess I'm curious why you want to eliminate the liquid hydrogen peroxide? Since the common 3 percent product works and is not overly expensive (less than $1 per quart around here at any drug store, Kmart, Walmart, etc.). I'm not sure if it would end up cheaper or not, but you could get a higher percentage peroxide at a beauty supply store and use less of it.
Sodium Percarbonate would be a bad choice. Dissolved in water it releases sodium carbonate along with the hydrogen peroxide. As you correctly assumed it would neutralize the hydrochloric acid releasing carbon dioxide gas and forming sodium chloride (table salt).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_percarbonate
macfixer01
macfixer01 said:
Peroxide is extremely difficult to get hold of in the liquid form in the UK...
Same with Sodium Nitrate!!!
The UK government seem to believe that there is only one use for peroxide... and that use is NOT legal!
Getting my hands on the appropriate chemicals has been the most difficult aspect of this project for me!
aflacglobal
Well-known member
Dam, and i thought the U.S. was getting crazy.
Is it really that bad in the U.K.? I've heard other members from the U.K. say about the same.
Is it really that bad in the U.K.? I've heard other members from the U.K. say about the same.
HillD2k said:
You can't find 3% topical antiseptic peroxide in the local pharmacy?
How about the 6-12% variety (Miss Clairol) at the beauty supply house?
Steve
Where do you intend to find the Chlorine ion?
It can however be used to a degree to substitute for Hydrogen Peroxide.
2Na₂CO₃•3H₂O₂
Prepare hydrogen peroxide from weak sulfuric acid (20%, 500 ml) and sodium peroxide (90 gr)
Add slowly(!) sodium peroxide to the acid with constant stirring, reaction temperature should not be over 15C (use ice bath to cool down the solution).
Na2O2+ H2SO4→ Na2SO4↓ (crystals) +H2O2
Wait 12 hours, and after that filter the solution from Sodium sulfate crystals.
Distillate it with a vacuum and temperature of about 60-65C in small portions (100ml).
After distillation you will have 20% H2O2.
P. S. How to make Sodium Peroxide
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I do not think that is a viable option.
Sodium peroxide is even harder to get hold of, if I'm not mistaken.
Anyway, the post is from 2007
I believe it may come to a cost issue.
Can't one distill ordinary 3-12% the same way?
Under a good vacuum pump, you can distill ordinary 3% and get 50% H2O2 easy with a temperature of distillation of about 35-40C and some peroxide losses (approx. 20%)
Then I would assume that is a more viable option for most.
I can buy 49% but at a high cost and only in 20L batches.
Too expensive to consider with so large batches.
Most will probably decompose before I can use it.
Good to know, still it would take a decade or two to go through such a large batch.
Then it makes sense to distill a few hundreds ml at a time.
Maybe...
Four to five hours to distill 3 liters of peroxide 3% to approx 200 milliliters of 33% with a wide vacuum desiccator and gentle heating 35-40C. The speed of distillation seriously depends on the liquid surface square in the desiccator.
No sodium peroxide and definetly no barium peroxide. Distillation ain't an option yet, best i can get for peroxide is 12%. Good to know this.
Well, I expected in my perfect little world to use glacial acetic with salt and hope the carbonate gets neutralized before the hcl is made, then the peroxide to do it's job, ofcourse i doubt it'd work but still.
Well, I expected in my perfect little world to use glacial acetic with salt and hope the carbonate gets neutralized before the hcl is made, then the peroxide to do it's job, ofcourse i doubt it'd work but still.
