precipitation problem

[metalfish AR]

I precipitated my AR last night and when I woke up this morning it was clear like "cola" with nothing on bottom...it was a cold night and I didn't heat it in any way. I heated it almost all day, had to go out so I wasn't able to keep my eye on it the ENTIRE day but it was in a safe area and wasn't tampered with. Now it has like a brown mud on the top and there is a crystalized substance on the bottom over SOME brown mud. I stopped heating it immediately before it evaporated any more of the solution. I am so very frustrated and feel like pulling my hair out!! Thank you for all of your insight, I truly appreciate it

 

[Barren Realms 007]

What color is the AR?

 

[leavemealone]

Armando,if you don't read hokes book you will always feel like pulling your hair out.What you did was condense the solution and force stuff to self precipitate by oversaturation,from evaporation.You should have never heated the solution unless it was to drive off the excess nitrates......but since I know you use urea, I know you weren't doing that.To fix the current problem you need to rehydrate with clean muratic,redissolve the percipitated matter,filter and continue with percipitation using smb,assuming there are no nitrates in the solution.
Johnny

 

[butcher]

Aqua regia, did you disolve base metals in aqua regia? did you evaporate to syrup adding hydrochloric acid to wet for each of the three evaporations to eliminate the nitric? was there lead or solder involved? did you add at least three times water diluting solution and filtering silver chloride? what precipitant are you using? did you read HOKES book?

do you have more details?

 

[leavemealone]

Aqua regia, did you disolve base metals in aqua regia? did you evaporate to syrup adding hydrochloric acid to wet for each of the three evaporations to eliminate the nitric? was there lead or solder involved? did you add at least three times water diluting solution and filtering silver chloride? what precipitant are you using? did you read HOKES book?

do you have more details?

Sometimes I wonder why I bother trying to help.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Aqua regia, did you disolve base metals in aqua regia? did you evaporate to syrup adding hydrochloric acid to wet for each of the three evaporations to eliminate the nitric? was there lead or solder involved? did you add at least three times water diluting solution and filtering silver chloride? what precipitant are you using? did you read HOKES book?

do you have more details?

Sometimes I wonder why I bother trying to help.

Because some where there is that one person that will listen to you and when you are finished teaching them you will have that shimmer in your eye. 8)

 

[leavemealone]

Well I don't think you could have said anything else and made me feel this good.Thank you.
But sometimes,I feel like I am just kicking a dead horse.I can't imagine how I made steve feel when I started processing.Don't get me wrong all of the original members helped me a lot,most of them are moderators now,but steve spent rediculous amounts of time helping me.And a few years ago I basically told a certain moderator to take hokes book and shove it.Ironically we are great friends now.If I had taken their advice in the beginning and read her book,I would have developed a fundamental knowledge about processing and have gotten where I needed to be so much faster.I keep preaching to read read read and research,and a lot of them want to put the horse in front of the carriage then ask why the carriage isn't going anywhere.
I know we don't know each other yet,but I know you found the forum right after I opened my 3rd account here.I'll get to know you sooner or later......I always do..lol.
But seriously,thank you for the kind words,they really did make me feel better.
Johnny

 

[metalfish AR]

Well, the pins I used in this solution were very thick so I thought it would take an eternity to dissolve the base metals first (like it did when you were over here the other night...which the next day still hadn't dissolved) so I used the AR (keeping my eye on it constantly) waiting for the gold to be stripped off and as soon as it was I removed the base metals from the solution. I appreciate your help very much but I am here to learn, not to be made fun of. Now that you know the way I approached this I was wondering if anyone had a clear answer for me? (and don't worry about me, I have plenty of hair to pull out!)

 

[metalfish AR]

I am trying to clean what I got with HCL and am getting this sugar like substance that is quickly filling up over half of my container...I don't understand why this very nice solution I had is turning into this mess I have now? Please, if anyone can help with any suggestions that would be very much appreciated...and yes, I am in the process of reading HOKES book.

 

[metalfish AR]

Okay, I just got really frustrated and threw that batch out! The more acid I added to clean it the more the "sugary" substance just grew in size. It was a small batch (I have a bigger one that I haven't yet precipitated) so it isn't so bad but still aggravating! Could that have been precipitant that built up in the bottom of that solution? Hopefully someone can give me some insight. Thanks

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Metalfish, never throw your solutions out.


Did you do exactly like Leavemealone told you to do or did you do something different?

 

[leavemealone]

Armando wrote:

I removed the base metals from the solution. I appreciate your help very much but I am here to learn, not to be made fun of.

First can you specify that you removed the base metals in solution,or you removed the pins once they appeared to be stripped....there is a difference.

And second and most important,noone is making fun of you and noone will.I will not allow it.Any member caught "seriously" making fun of another member will be reprimanded,and in repeated cases moderators will be notified,as well as nick.
What is happening is,several members,myself included,grow weary of repeating ourselves.You are a super nice guy armando.But I,and several others,advised you to read hokes book first,before you went any further with your processing.ESPECIALLY since you process a lot of jewelry.Her book is geared towards that.Now you promised me sunday night that you would read her book before going any further.And since you haven't I am just not sure what to do.
Ok try this.Most of what you need to know for now,is outlined in chapter 5(page 33).If you were to read that entire chapter,it would help you exponentially.I know you are having battery problems with your laptop,so print out the pages and keep them handy for references if you get stuck.
I have to go to work for a little while but I'll be back shortly.
Johnny

 

[metalfish AR]

I understood exactly what was told to me about the base metals and everything, I was just curious if when I do that will it take days at a time for those base metals to dissolve?

Thanks for your suggestion on what chapter to read in HOKE'S book, I am still in the middle of reading the whole book still though...it is just taking me a little longer than expected because I am juggling three businesses right now and the screen business I told you about for some reason just picked up and I have a HUGE job right now that I am trying to get done and find a good worker to do it so I am pulling my hair out with that also. I just get offended real easily when I feel I am being made fun when I am just real new at this and am trying to soak up all the knowledge I am capable of.

When I am trying to dissolve the base metals from very thick pins where they are incapsulated by the gold plating, how does the HCL reach those base metals in order to dissolve them? Also, this might be an odd question but why don't people just use the HCL to dissolve the unwanted encapsulated metal and get their pure gold that way? Maybe a stupid question, maybe not, just curious.
Johhny-if you read this...the beaker we put that one connecter cut up in the HCL finally produced two tiny perfectly round 24kt pure gold pellets so this is why I ask this question about just using the HCL...

 

[Barren Realms 007]

When I am trying to dissolve the base metals from very thick pins where they are incapsulated by the gold plating, how does the HCL reach those base metals in order to dissolve them? Also, this might be an odd question but why don't people just use the HCL to dissolve the unwanted encapsulated metal and get their pure gold that way? Maybe a stupid question, maybe not, just curious.
Johhny-if you read this...the beaker we put that one connecter cut up in the HCL finally produced two tiny perfectly round 24kt pure gold pellets so this is why I ask this question about just using the HCL...

The HCL get to the gold because it has a porus surface like your skin. It get in thru these pours and works it's majic on the sub surface.

To answer you question below: In our day of instant gratification, we want it now, I can't wait, I'v got to wait 5 min( UUUHHHHH) mentality. Individuals don't understand delayed gratification, to wait till thier end product is finished, to not take short cut's, to follow a process, obey the rules of physics.

Also, this might be an odd question but why don't people just use the HCL to dissolve the unwanted encapsulated metal and get their pure gold that way?

You can heat the HCL and get a faster reaction. You can use peroxide if you like but the combination of this and heat gives you more of a chance of your gold going into solution and then you haveing to get it out of solution.

You have someone teaching you. Follow his instruction to the TEE, that way when you have a problem you can call him ans he knows what you have done and what the quick fixes are to your problems.

 

[metalfish AR]

Thank you very much for the response. I understand exactly what you mean about how the HCL gets through the gold to the base metals...thanks again.

Yeah, I was just curious about how I got those perfect little 24kt gold pellets after just soaking pins in HCL to dissolve the base metals so it made me wonder if that could be done with everything, you know??! Like I said, I am still learning so I have alot of questions and curiousities! Thanks for all the professional opinions and information I am getting from everyone.