Processing SilverPlate With H2O Cell

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modtheworld44

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Jul 13, 2012
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407
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Hi to All,

Ok where to begin! I guess with the specs of my cell,so here they are.

POWER SUPPLY(Front Panel)
Radio Shack
Regulated 12 volt Power supply
Converts 120 VAC to 12 VDC
1 on/off power switch

POWER SUPPLY(Back Panel)
120 VAC
60 HZ
60 WATTS MAX

OUTPUT 13.8 VDC- 2.5A
3 AMP reset switch

2 wires & 2 clamps
1 gallon pickle jar

ANODE and CATHODE (any SILVERPLATE WARE you choose)
ELECTROLYTE(good old H2O)

Ok now to the process .

1.Fill jar about 3-5 inches from the top so you have plenty of room for rinseing periodically .
2.Clamp Anode and Cathode to jar (Leave Anode+ half out of water helps deplate better).Do not let your clamps touch the water.
3.Make sure that Anode and Cathode are across from one another ,not side by side.
4.Turn power supply on,after about 1 1/2 minutes you should start seeing the silver coming off in a cloudy stream.
5.After it runs for a hour or two the cell will start to get real cloudy and by this time you,ll start to see growth on the anode (don,t panic) just power the cell off .
6.Use spray bottle and tooth brush to clean Anode (Make sure to do this back into the cell).Do not clean Cathode.
7.Flip Anode around so deplated end is sticking out of water and reclamp, and turn power back on.
8.When second half is done , turn power off ,unclamp Anode and use it to stir the cell for about a minute then clean second half of Anode then replace with new Anode.Continue steps 2-8 Until step 9 comes into play.
9.When water is almost to the top near clamp, power down remove and clean current Anode,remove and spray only the Cathode(You want Cathode to stay tarnished black).
10.Now that cell is pregnant filter all liquid through 3 stacked coffee filters 1 time only.
11.Rinse black powder in filter with spray bottle, dry till it hardens then save for bigger melt.
12.Now refill cell with the same fluid you filtered and start again,except now you can leave Anode in for longer time period and let the growth grow longer before cleanings.

Heres my video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WCyoq1yMgg
 

Pantherlikher

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Sep 30, 2012
Messages
770
Location
Denver, Pennsylvania U.S.A.
Interesting...
I love the dice sitting on the muffin tray...
Is this for the "crap shoot" when you get bored?. Hopefully this is the only guessing game.

My suggestion, same as I keep telling myself, is you put your solution station away from your mechanical station. This would prevent the inevitable slip of the srew driver and instead of into your hand...dam I hate that... and into a major mess.

BS.
Just rambling thoughts into words...
 

etack

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Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
1,403
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Pantherlikher said:
Interesting...


My suggestion, same as I keep telling myself, is you put your solution station away from your mechanical station. This would prevent the inevitable slip of the srew driver and instead of into your hand...dam I hate that... and into a major mess.

BS.
Just rambling thoughts into words...

This is very true!! Now I need to go out to my garage and move something. :lol:


Will have to give this a try some time. I had some limited success using table salt and water for silver over Cu but it wouldn't work over white brass. I stopped cause I didn't have any more Ag plated copper. :lol: The silver would come foo at what appeared to be AgCl and float around the jar. The spoon came out completely Cu real bright I have it around here some where It was stamped silver plated. he white brass spoons just pitted and got chalky real bad. Its been over a year sence I did this but i think I used a 3.7V cellphone charger.

The pic doesn't show it but this is Cu plating over a softer metal.
 

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goldsilverpro

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1.Fill jar about 3-5 inches from the top so you have plenty of room for rinseing periodically .
2.Clamp Anode and Cathode to jar (Leave Anode+ half out of water helps deplate better).Do not let your clamps touch the water.
3.Make sure that Anode and Cathode are across from one another ,not side by side.
4.Turn power supply on,after about 1 1/2 minutes you should start seeing the silver coming off in a cloudy stream.
5.After it runs for a hour or two the cell will start to get real cloudy and by this time you,ll start to see growth on the anode (don,t panic) just power the cell off .
6.Use spray bottle and tooth brush to clean Anode (Make sure to do this back into the cell).Do not clean Cathode.
7.Flip Anode around so deplated end is sticking out of water and reclamp, and turn power back on.
8.When second half is done , turn power off ,unclamp Anode and use it to stir the cell for about a minute then clean second half of Anode then replace with new Anode.Continue steps 2-8 Until step 9 comes into play.
9.When water is almost to the top near clamp, power down remove and clean current Anode,remove and spray only the Cathode(You want Cathode to stay tarnished black).
10.Now that cell is pregnant filter all liquid through 3 stacked coffee filters 1 time only.
11.Rinse black powder in filter with spray bottle, dry till it hardens then save for bigger melt.
12.Now refill cell with the same fluid you filtered and start again,except now you can leave Anode in for longer time period and let the growth grow longer before cleanings.
modtheworld44,

This is quite interesting. Who would have thought you could strip silver with water? I once messed around with making colloidal silver using 2 pure silver wires, distilled water, and 3, 9v batteries. I guess that is similar. A few questions.
(1) I assume you used tap water with nothing else added. Is that true? Do you know the pH of the tap water?
(2) You're using 12V. Do you have any idea how much amperage is used? Does the amperage change when the silver is stripped?
(3) In your step 12, does the silver strip slower when you reuse the solution? When running multiple cycles using the same solution, do you reach a point where the silver stops stripping?
(4) Is the filtered solution black?
(5) Where did you get the idea that water would work for this?
 

modtheworld44

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Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
407
Location
Chattanooga,TN
goldsilverpro said:
1.Fill jar about 3-5 inches from the top so you have plenty of room for rinseing periodically .
2.Clamp Anode and Cathode to jar (Leave Anode+ half out of water helps deplate better).Do not let your clamps touch the water.
3.Make sure that Anode and Cathode are across from one another ,not side by side.
4.Turn power supply on,after about 1 1/2 minutes you should start seeing the silver coming off in a cloudy stream.
5.After it runs for a hour or two the cell will start to get real cloudy and by this time you,ll start to see growth on the anode (don,t panic) just power the cell off .
6.Use spray bottle and tooth brush to clean Anode (Make sure to do this back into the cell).Do not clean Cathode.
7.Flip Anode around so deplated end is sticking out of water and reclamp, and turn power back on.
8.When second half is done , turn power off ,unclamp Anode and use it to stir the cell for about a minute then clean second half of Anode then replace with new Anode.Continue steps 2-8 Until step 9 comes into play.
9.When water is almost to the top near clamp, power down remove and clean current Anode,remove and spray only the Cathode(You want Cathode to stay tarnished black).
10.Now that cell is pregnant filter all liquid through 3 stacked coffee filters 1 time only.
11.Rinse black powder in filter with spray bottle, dry till it hardens then save for bigger melt.
12.Now refill cell with the same fluid you filtered and start again,except now you can leave Anode in for longer time period and let the growth grow longer before cleanings.
modtheworld44,

This is quite interesting. Who would have thought you could strip silver with water? I once messed around with making colloidal silver using 2 pure silver wires, distilled water, and 3, 9v batteries. I guess that is similar. A few questions.
(1) I assume you used tap water with nothing else added. Is that true? Do you know the pH of the tap water?
(2) You're using 12V. Do you have any idea how much amperage is used? Does the amperage change when the silver is stripped?
(3) In your step 12, does the silver strip slower when you reuse the solution? When running multiple cycles using the same solution, do you reach a point where the silver stops stripping?
(4) Is the filtered solution black?
(5) Where did you get the idea that water would work for this?

GSP

1.Yes that is true.Nothing else is added to the water not even salt.This was just my test phase so I haven't tested for PH yet.I have thought of that already just haven't had time or extra money yet to go purchase voltage meter or PH strips,but will as soon as I can.
2.I would assume that it does change some where in the process period but unable to test that right now.That is also something I've been thinking about.
3.I think this is what happens.When the silver is deplated it comes off in colloidal form and then when its done stripping or almost done it gets growed back as a silver chloride then when stirred against Cathode it gets its electrons back and drops as metal.Now don't quote me on that because I don't know that for sure but to me that's what it looks like is happening .
4.The solution its self is not black after you filter it but the powder is ,this is caused from the contact of the Cathode I believe.After I change my cell again I'm going to cover the Cathode to see if there's a change in the cell.
5.I got the idea from a post that was made in I think the Colloidal Silver thread.The person stated that if the Anode and Cathode were to far apart that it would cause the silver to come off in its ionic state instead of its colloidal state.So since we deal in ionic state I ran with it.

So far I've gotten 6.4 grams in 5 days but I haven't allowed my solution to fully unpregnate it self either.Also as I said in video it doesn't fully strip crevices and cups of the spoon.I have only run 11 spoons and forks so far,and four of those worth of silver are still in the cell.So technically out of 7 pieces I've recovered 6.4 grams.I hope this is enough information for you to get started,but if it aint let me know and I'll try to be more helpful.



modtheworld44
 

resabed01

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Sep 6, 2009
Messages
467
Location
Alberta
Pure water (H2O) does not conduct electricity. It acts more like a insulator. That said, it's a poor insulator because it's such a good solvent. It's the impurities in water that allows it to conduct.
If you set up a cell with water and you're getting current flow that's a indicator that there are salts or minerals in the water.

At least that's what I've been taught.
 

modtheworld44

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
407
Location
Chattanooga,TN
resabed01 said:
Pure water (H2O) does not conduct electricity. It acts more like a insulator. That said, it's a poor insulator because it's such a good solvent. It's the impurities in water that allows it to conduct.
If you set up a cell with water and you're getting current flow that's a indicator that there are salts or minerals in the water.

At least that's what I've been taught.

I'm sure theres something in the water that causes this process to work.I just don't know what it is,to many variables to try and figure out.I haven't tried this process with distilled water yet so in conclusion you're probably right ,but we'll know for sure when I do decide to try it with distilled water.
Thanks for showing some interest in my thread.



modtheworld44
 

goldsilverpro

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Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Messages
7,962
Location
Benton, Arkansas
resabed01 said:
Pure water (H2O) does not conduct electricity. It acts more like a insulator. That said, it's a poor insulator because it's such a good solvent. It's the impurities in water that allows it to conduct.
If you set up a cell with water and you're getting current flow that's a indicator that there are salts or minerals in the water.

At least that's what I've been taught.
Not necessarily true. When you make colloidal silver electrolytically (using 2 pure silver wires) for ingestion purposes, you want the purest water you can find. You want to end up with un-ionized colloidal silver metal clusters rather than ionic silver. Some commercially made colloidal silver and some internet methods use dissolved solids and the resulting silver is ionic. After researching this, I became nearly convinced that the blue skin problem is caused by the ingestion of ionic silver and not true colloidal silver. Using a milliammeter, I tested several brands of distilled water. I figured the greater the initial current flow, the less pure the water. Some were very impure and produced a high initial current. The best I found, by far, was Walgreen's more expensive variety (they sell 2), which ran about $1.75/gallon. I was using 27v and, for the first minute, or so, I read zero milliamps. Then, I started getting a little current flow. I'm thinking I stopped after 10 or 15 minutes and, by that time, I was getting substantial current flow. I assume that the metallic silver clusters (containing only a few atoms each) that formed became populated enough to allow some current to flow. When I ran it longer, although the solution was still water clear, there was a slight metallic sheen to it.

If the electrodes were of some more inert metal, like maybe 304 SS, I would say there would never be any current flow unless some chemical producing ions was added to the solution.
 

butcher

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When making colloidal silver I begin with the anode and cathode very close together this lowers the cells resistance to get a little silver ions in solution, once silver ions are in solution the anode cathode gap is separated as the silver ions in solution now lower cells resistance.

I know silver would oxidize and reduce in this cell but I still have questions on why the copper or other more reactive base metals are not also oxidizing into solution or plating out (or are they?).

Maybe hammering your spoon flat you could get the little silver out of the well of the spoon a little better.

modtheworld44,
Thanks for sharing your promising results.
 

goldsilverpro

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Benton, Arkansas
modtheworld44 said:
goldsilverpro said:
1.Fill jar about 3-5 inches from the top so you have plenty of room for rinseing periodically .
2.Clamp Anode and Cathode to jar (Leave Anode+ half out of water helps deplate better).Do not let your clamps touch the water.
3.Make sure that Anode and Cathode are across from one another ,not side by side.
4.Turn power supply on,after about 1 1/2 minutes you should start seeing the silver coming off in a cloudy stream.
5.After it runs for a hour or two the cell will start to get real cloudy and by this time you,ll start to see growth on the anode (don,t panic) just power the cell off .
6.Use spray bottle and tooth brush to clean Anode (Make sure to do this back into the cell).Do not clean Cathode.
7.Flip Anode around so deplated end is sticking out of water and reclamp, and turn power back on.
8.When second half is done , turn power off ,unclamp Anode and use it to stir the cell for about a minute then clean second half of Anode then replace with new Anode.Continue steps 2-8 Until step 9 comes into play.
9.When water is almost to the top near clamp, power down remove and clean current Anode,remove and spray only the Cathode(You want Cathode to stay tarnished black).
10.Now that cell is pregnant filter all liquid through 3 stacked coffee filters 1 time only.
11.Rinse black powder in filter with spray bottle, dry till it hardens then save for bigger melt.
12.Now refill cell with the same fluid you filtered and start again,except now you can leave Anode in for longer time period and let the growth grow longer before cleanings.
modtheworld44,

This is quite interesting. Who would have thought you could strip silver with water? I once messed around with making colloidal silver using 2 pure silver wires, distilled water, and 3, 9v batteries. I guess that is similar. A few questions.
(1) I assume you used tap water with nothing else added. Is that true? Do you know the pH of the tap water?
(2) You're using 12V. Do you have any idea how much amperage is used? Does the amperage change when the silver is stripped?
(3) In your step 12, does the silver strip slower when you reuse the solution? When running multiple cycles using the same solution, do you reach a point where the silver stops stripping?
(4) Is the filtered solution black?
(5) Where did you get the idea that water would work for this?

GSP


1.Yes that is true.Nothing else is added to the water not even salt.This was just my test phase so I haven't tested for PH yet.I have thought of that already just haven't had time or extra money yet to go purchase voltage meter or PH strips,but will as soon as I can.
2.I would assume that it does change some where in the process period but unable to test that right now.That is also something I've been thinking about.
3.I think this is what happens.When the silver is deplated it comes off in colloidal form and then when its done stripping or almost done it gets growed back as a silver chloride then when stirred against Cathode it gets its electrons back and drops as metal.Now don't quote me on that because I don't know that for sure but to me that's what it looks like is happening .
4.The solution its self is not black after you filter it but the powder is ,this is caused from the contact of the Cathode I believe.After I change my cell again I'm going to cover the Cathode to see if there's a change in the cell.
5.I got the idea from a post that was made in I think the Colloidal Silver thread.The person stated that if the Anode and Cathode were to far apart that it would cause the silver to come off in its ionic state instead of its colloidal state.So since we deal in ionic state I ran with it.

So far I've gotten 6.4 grams in 5 days but I haven't allowed my solution to fully unpregnate it self either.Also as I said in video it doesn't fully strip crevices and cups of the spoon.I have only run 11 spoons and forks so far,and four of those worth of silver are still in the cell.So technically out of 7 pieces I've recovered 6.4 grams.I hope this is enough information for you to get started,but if it aint let me know and I'll try to be more helpful.

modtheworld44

To me, at least, this may be the most interesting new development I've seen in years. The work you've done has proven the concept but there are still improvements needed to speed it up. I commend you.

It would be interesting to dissolve that smallest BB in your video in about 1.5-2ml of warm 50/50 nitric, to see if there is any copper in it. If so, it will produce a blue color. If would also be interesting to collect a few drops of the filtered solution in a small beaker or clear drinking glass and add a drop of HCl or salt water to it. A white cloud would indicate some of the silver is ionic. I doubt if that will be the case.

Is there any fizzing (gas) coming off the electrodes when it is running? If so, it is splitting water. Water splitting at the cathode would produce H2 gas and OH- ion would enter the solution. At the anode, it would produce O2 gas and H+ ion. However, since the dissolving is inefficient, the amount of H+ and OH- would essentially be the same. All of the H+ and OH- would recombine to form water, H2O or, written another way, HOH. Therefore, there would be no ions in the solution and, without any negative ions, ionic silver (Ag+) couldn't exist, since the total negative charges and the total positive must be equal in any solution.

I think the black is just finely divided agglomerated (come together) colloidal silver. It's great that the filtered solution isn't black. That would indicate to me that all the colloidal silver has aggomerated enough to be filterable. It isn't silver chloride. Is the solution water clear after filtering?

I don't think that adding any chemical to the water would be good unless you found some non ionic electrolyte that would increase the current flow and wouldn't break down at the electrodes. I think it would be best to keep the silver colloidal, rather than ionic. Also, you would have difficulties finding an ionic chemical that wouldn't electrolytically attack the copper, nickel, or zinc in that white alloy base metal.

In my estimation, the reason the current has difficulties penetrating into crevices or down into the bowl of the spoon is that the conductivity is poor. The current wants to flow to the high points and the shortest distance between 2 points. Even if the solution were ionic, the problem could exist, but not as bad. In the plating world, the ability of the current to "throw" into a crevice or a blind hole is called "throwing power". One way to increase the ability to throw into the bowl of the spoon would be to put the bowl of the cathode spoon inline and about 1/2" away from the anode spoon. This could be easier done on a non-conductive gig (or, rack) which would hold the spoons in position and prevent shorting. Another improvement that might work would be to use higher voltage. Maybe, try 2, 12v power supplies ganged together.
 

modtheworld44

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Joined
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Messages
407
Location
Chattanooga,TN
butcher said:
When making colloidal silver I begin with the anode and cathode very close together this lowers the cells resistance to get a little silver ions in solution, once silver ions are in solution the anode cathode gap is separated as the silver ions in solution now lower cells resistance.

I know silver would oxidize and reduce in this cell but I still have questions on why the copper or other more reactive base metals are not also oxidizing into solution or plating out (or are they?).

Maybe hammering your spoon flat you could get the little silver out of the well of the spoon a little better.

modtheworld44,
Thanks for sharing your promising results.

Butcher

No thank you and all the other members of this forum for the refining education yall have provided me.I'm just trying to give something back even though its not much compared to what yall have given me.I meant to mention you and quite a few others in my video.Yall have given me Hope more than once.I really enjoy reading the forum on a daily basis.

Go to youtube and type chem 12 and find the videos by rcn2000 and watch those,it might help you to understand whats taking place.I have watched about 6 of his videos.I'll give your spoon flattening suggestion a try .
Thanks for your interest in my thread.



modtheworld44
 

butcher

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modtheworld44,
The videos I watched are just basic cell theory, which I understand.

What I am not understanding here in this water only electrolyte electrolytic cell is if there is some passivation anodically of the base metal, or if the cell is somewhat selective for silver, or if you are removing the articles when some of the silver is removed and it begins to work its way down to the base metal, I cannot understand how this would be selective for silver, and how you could effectively de-plate silver from base metal on the whole side of an anode spoon without also removing base metals, or leaving silver on portions further from cathode while not removing the base metal portion of the spoon closer to the cathode.

You are obviously getting silver, but are you leaving a lot of it behind, my question is this selective or would you lose a lot of the silver remaining on the spoon, how effective is this to remove silver and not base metal, or to remove most all the silver with minimum base metal.

Otherwise I do not see much difference in this than many of the other electrolytes that can be used in the cell to do the same job.
 

modtheworld44

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Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
407
Location
Chattanooga,TN
goldsilverpro said:
modtheworld44 said:
goldsilverpro said:
1.Fill jar about 3-5 inches from the top so you have plenty of room for rinseing periodically .
2.Clamp Anode and Cathode to jar (Leave Anode+ half out of water helps deplate better).Do not let your clamps touch the water.
3.Make sure that Anode and Cathode are across from one another ,not side by side.
4.Turn power supply on,after about 1 1/2 minutes you should start seeing the silver coming off in a cloudy stream.
5.After it runs for a hour or two the cell will start to get real cloudy and by this time you,ll start to see growth on the anode (don,t panic) just power the cell off .
6.Use spray bottle and tooth brush to clean Anode (Make sure to do this back into the cell).Do not clean Cathode.
7.Flip Anode around so deplated end is sticking out of water and reclamp, and turn power back on.
8.When second half is done , turn power off ,unclamp Anode and use it to stir the cell for about a minute then clean second half of Anode then replace with new Anode.Continue steps 2-8 Until step 9 comes into play.
9.When water is almost to the top near clamp, power down remove and clean current Anode,remove and spray only the Cathode(You want Cathode to stay tarnished black).
10.Now that cell is pregnant filter all liquid through 3 stacked coffee filters 1 time only.
11.Rinse black powder in filter with spray bottle, dry till it hardens then save for bigger melt.
12.Now refill cell with the same fluid you filtered and start again,except now you can leave Anode in for longer time period and let the growth grow longer before cleanings.
modtheworld44,

This is quite interesting. Who would have thought you could strip silver with water? I once messed around with making colloidal silver using 2 pure silver wires, distilled water, and 3, 9v batteries. I guess that is similar. A few questions.
(1) I assume you used tap water with nothing else added. Is that true? Do you know the pH of the tap water?
(2) You're using 12V. Do you have any idea how much amperage is used? Does the amperage change when the silver is stripped?
(3) In your step 12, does the silver strip slower when you reuse the solution? When running multiple cycles using the same solution, do you reach a point where the silver stops stripping?
(4) Is the filtered solution black?
(5) Where did you get the idea that water would work for this?

GSP


1.Yes that is true.Nothing else is added to the water not even salt.This was just my test phase so I haven't tested for PH yet.I have thought of that already just haven't had time or extra money yet to go purchase voltage meter or PH strips,but will as soon as I can.
2.I would assume that it does change some where in the process period but unable to test that right now.That is also something I've been thinking about.
3.I think this is what happens.When the silver is deplated it comes off in colloidal form and then when its done stripping or almost done it gets growed back as a silver chloride then when stirred against Cathode it gets its electrons back and drops as metal.Now don't quote me on that because I don't know that for sure but to me that's what it looks like is happening .
4.The solution its self is not black after you filter it but the powder is ,this is caused from the contact of the Cathode I believe.After I change my cell again I'm going to cover the Cathode to see if there's a change in the cell.
5.I got the idea from a post that was made in I think the Colloidal Silver thread.The person stated that if the Anode and Cathode were to far apart that it would cause the silver to come off in its ionic state instead of its colloidal state.So since we deal in ionic state I ran with it.

So far I've gotten 6.4 grams in 5 days but I haven't allowed my solution to fully unpregnate it self either.Also as I said in video it doesn't fully strip crevices and cups of the spoon.I have only run 11 spoons and forks so far,and four of those worth of silver are still in the cell.So technically out of 7 pieces I've recovered 6.4 grams.I hope this is enough information for you to get started,but if it aint let me know and I'll try to be more helpful.

modtheworld44

To me, at least, this may be the most interesting new development I've seen in years. The work you've done has proven the concept but there are still improvements needed to speed it up. I commend you.

It would be interesting to dissolve that smallest BB in your video in about 1.5-2ml of warm 50/50 nitric, to see if there is any copper in it. If so, it will produce a blue color. If would also be interesting to collect a few drops of the filtered solution in a small beaker or clear drinking glass and add a drop of HCl or salt water to it. A white cloud would indicate some of the silver is ionic. I doubt if that will be the case.

Is there any fizzing (gas) coming off the electrodes when it is running? If so, it is splitting water. Water splitting at the cathode would produce H2 gas and OH- ion would enter the solution. At the anode, it would produce O2 gas and H+ ion. However, since the dissolving is inefficient, the amount of H+ and OH- would essentially be the same. All of the H+ and OH- would recombine to form water, H2O or, written another way, HOH. Therefore, there would be no ions in the solution and, without any negative ions, ionic silver (Ag+) couldn't exist, since the total negative charges and the total positive must be equal in any solution.

I think the black is just finely divided agglomerated (come together) colloidal silver. It's great that the filtered solution isn't black. That would indicate to me that all the colloidal silver has aggomerated enough to be filterable. It isn't silver chloride. Is the solution water clear after filtering?

I don't think that adding any chemical to the water would be good unless you found some non ionic electrolyte that would increase the current flow and wouldn't break down at the electrodes. I think it would be best to keep the silver colloidal, rather than ionic. Also, you would have difficulties finding an ionic chemical that wouldn't electrolytically attack the copper, nickel, or zinc in that white alloy base metal.

In my estimation, the reason the current has difficulties penetrating into crevices or down into the bowl of the spoon is that the conductivity is poor. The current wants to flow to the high points and the shortest distance between 2 points. Even if the solution were ionic, the problem could exist, but not as bad. In the plating world, the ability of the current to "throw" into a crevice or a blind hole is called "throwing power". One way to increase the ability to throw into the bowl of the spoon would be to put the bowl of the cathode spoon inline and about 1/2" away from the anode spoon. This could be easier done on a non-conductive gig (or, rack) which would hold the spoons in position and prevent shorting. Another improvement that might work would be to use higher voltage. Maybe, try 2, 12v power supplies ganged together.

GSP

You describe it so well .Yes it does fizz just a little from Cathode while cell is running but theres alot of fizzing during the stirring in between anode cleaning and changeing .When the silver starts to float to the top after you stir , the silver traps the gases underneath and gets released on the next stir.I also turn each side of the flatware toward the Cathode to get better deplating.I'll try your suggestion of moving the Anode closer.
I'm going to do the tests with acids just haven't gotten around to it.(LOL don't like the cold) I'm also going to make some more videos with better lighting so peaple can see what is actually taking place in the cell.I'll make them some time tomorrow probably.
Well thanks for your thoughts and input and maybe together we can get this up and running at its full potential .

P.S I have another cell theory for gold that doesn't involve acids either!



modtheworld44
 

MysticColby

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a question) does it deplate equally from the cathode and anode?

My first guess on what is going on: electrons are added or taken away from water directly around silver plated material. The whole cell remains balanced, but in the local area, there is an imbalance, and the silver electrodes sometimes are given or take an electron, resulting in ionic silver, which would momentarily be in solution, then it would quickly give or take an electron and go back to metallic silver. But now it's free-floating in the water, eventually it aggregates with others and settles.
I would expect the base metal would also start coming off if left in there long enough. more reactive metals should even come off easier...
 

modtheworld44

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butcher said:
modtheworld44,
The videos I watched are just basic cell theory, which I understand.

What I am not understanding here in this water only electrolyte electrolytic cell is if there is some passivation anodically of the base metal, or if the cell is somewhat selective for silver, or if you are removing the articles when some of the silver is removed and it begins to work its way down to the base metal, I cannot understand how this would be selective for silver, and how you could effectively de-plate silver from base metal on the whole side of an anode spoon without also removing base metals, or leaving silver on portions further from cathode while not removing the base metal portion of the spoon closer to the cathode.

You are obviously getting silver, but are you leaving a lot of it behind, my question is this selective or would you lose a lot of the silver remaining on the spoon, how effective is this to remove silver and not base metal, or to remove most all the silver with minimum base metal.

Otherwise I do not see much difference in this than many of the other electrolytes that can be used in the cell to do the same job.

Butcher

Let me start by offering you a apology,I wasn't by no means implying that you didn't understand cell theory or anything.I have read hundreds of your post ,I respect you and your knowledge of refining.I only pointed you in that direction to show you some more knowledge and did not know that you already retained that knowledge.I for one did not know the knowledge that I found in those videos so for me it was a gold mine in its self.I now understand the difference between a electrolytic cell and a electrochemical cell.
To answer your question I have not done the acid tests GSP was talking about and I see those tests as the only way to make sure whether or not it is selective or not.Now as far as the passitative part I think that happens on the Cathode when it becomes black,because I have cleaned it once just to see if it was being eroded any and as far as I could tell it wasn't.I plan to do the tests real soon so keep checking this thread for the results.Your input is very welcome any time.
Thanks and I hope this helps.



modtheworld44
 

modtheworld44

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MysticColby said:
a question) does it deplate equally from the cathode and anode?

My first guess on what is going on: electrons are added or taken away from water directly around silver plated material. The whole cell remains balanced, but in the local area, there is an imbalance, and the silver electrodes sometimes are given or take an electron, resulting in ionic silver, which would momentarily be in solution, then it would quickly give or take an electron and go back to metallic silver. But now it's free-floating in the water, eventually it aggregates with others and settles.
I would expect the base metal would also start coming off if left in there long enough. more reactive metals should even come off easier...

MysticColby

No it only plates from Anode+.I try not to give the base metals that chance.
When I do the acid tests I'll know for sure.
Thanks for being a part of this journey with us.



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goldsilverpro

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As I understand it, when using only water, the anodic pressure actually dislodges silver out of the crystal structure of the anode, somewhat mechanically, in clusters of a few atoms each. The clusters have varying numbers of atoms in it. True colloidal silver is a dispersion of solid metallic silver clusters in a liquid - two phases mixed intimately together, solid and liquid. This is totally unlike a silver cell, where the silver is oxidized and actually becomes part of the liquid. Ionic silver is not a solid, nor is it metallic.

Smoke is a colloid - solids mixed with a gas. Gels are colloids - a solid intimately mixed with a liquid.
 

modtheworld44

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goldsilverpro said:
As I understand it, when using only water, the anodic pressure actually dislodges silver out of the crystal structure of the anode, somewhat mechanically, in clusters of a few atoms each. The clusters have varying numbers of atoms in it. True colloidal silver is a dispersion of solid metallic silver clusters in a liquid - two phases mixed intimately together, solid and liquid. This is totally unlike a silver cell, where the silver is oxidized and actually becomes part of the liquid. Ionic silver is not a solid, nor is it metallic.

Smoke is a colloid - solids mixed with a gas. Gels are colloids - a solid intimately mixed with a liquid.

GSP

Thank you for the clarification on colloidal states,because out of everything I have read on the subject it never actually stated what the forms were as simply and clearly as you have.
Which brings me to this question.If the silver is coming off as colloidal then what exactly is making it reconvert to metal? When I'm watching it come off instead of going up to the top like you would think because of the gas it instead goes to the bottom.This cell really has allot of variables to it.But to me thats what makes this cell so different and interesting.
Thanks for info and if you come up with anything else feel free to share it here.

P.S You want to help test my gold cell theory!



modtheworld44
 

Geo

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if you are using tap water, most tap water is chlorinated to some extent (at least in the US). this chlorine is measured in ppm but its still there. it could be the starting point of the reaction. your results may not work for everyone based on that alone. have you tried distilled water from the market? here, the utility that supplies the water sends out a analytic report on water quality once a year listing all contaminants and additives used in the tap water in their system. if yours doesnt supply one, you may be able to request one from your utility.
 
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