Pyrolyzed material help

[voidforged]

Hey all, I was given a small lot of material a little while back and I am just now looking into processing it, as its not the usual type of material I take. Its a steel 5 gallon bucket full of what was described to me as a mix of "mid-high grade" boards, chips, and other material that had visible gold. Don't ask me why they just pyrolyzed everything at once instead of parting out and processing everything in its respective groups, I don't know why and the individual who gave me the lot just said they didn't know any better and lost interest in the project. I'm stuck on the best way to break this material down as its too large of a volume to incinerate all at once, and I don't have a ball mill or crusher to smash it down and pan it out to separate it. I don't want to buy a mill for this as I'd likely only use it for this one lot, and wet-ashing is out of the question for me. I do have access to a fabrication shop and can weld up stuff as needed, but again it would be for this lot only so I don't really want to use up too many of their materials. Maybe a manual ore crusher type device?

 

[Elemental]

This might be a crazy idea, but since you already have the steel bucket, why not turn the bucket into a temporary ball mill? You would just need a simple frame to put it in, toss in some heavy ball bearings/large steel nuts, and get it spinning. The bucket won't likely survive too long, but then again, you said this is a one and done sort of deal. A simple 2 x 4 frame and handle to turn it, or hook it up to a small 1/2 horse motor to get it spinning. I'll be the first to admit, I've never ball milled anything before, but I read your post and the idea popped in my head.

Let me know if you consider using my insanity on this, I'd be interested to hear how it turns out.

Elemental

 

[voidforged]

Fantastic idea! However, the bucket appears to be the same one that the material was pyrolyzed in as its covered in scale and flakes pretty easily so I don't think it would hold up long enough.

 

[Jado]

I’m assuming it wasn’t completely pyrolyzed if you’re asking about breaking it. How far did it get? Are we taking about a solid chunk of melted hydrocarbon or a puddle of tar at the bottom? You might need to MEK it

 

[voidforged]

I’m assuming it wasn’t completely pyrolyzed if you’re asking about breaking it. How far did it get? Are we taking about a solid chunk of melted hydrocarbon or a puddle of tar at the bottom? You might need to MEK it

It's completely pyrolyzed, everything has been reduced to carbon and all the tar burned away, leaving behind the carbon versions of the boards. I'm talking about breaking it (the chunks I mean) down because I can't just throw a bunch of carbon into some acid and it's too much to incinerate. Other posts have mentioned ball milling down pyrolyzed material to around 80 mesh and panning it out to reduce the volume and then incinerating whatever is left but as I said in the start of this thread I don't have a ball mill and don't want to waste a bunch of money or material for this one off project.

 

[Jado]

There should be no carbon left, you might be looking at Silicon Sulfide which degrades in water. Test a small area first

 

[voidforged]

There should be no carbon left, you might be looking at Silicon Sulfide which degrades in water. Test a small area first

Pyrolysis is the act of heating material in the absence of oxygen to drive off volatiles, usually back into the heat source to act as a sort of afterburner, and leave behind carbon and whatever other non-volatiles are there. This is how charcoal is made. You're thinking incineration I think.

 

[Jado]

Pyrolysis is the act of heating material in the absence of oxygen to drive off volatiles, usually back into the heat source to act as a sort of afterburner, and leave behind carbon and whatever other non-volatiles are there. This is how charcoal is made. You're thinking incineration I think.

Boards aren’t printed on carbohydrate anymore though, it’s usually a hydrocarbon infused woven or matted silicon compound. If there is unhydrolyzed carbon it’s from an incomplete process or done improperly. I’m not a refiner btw, I’m just here as my interests overlap at times

 

[voidforged]

Boards aren’t printed on carbohydrate anymore though, it’s usually a hydrocarbon infused woven or matted silicon compound. If there is unhydrolyzed carbon it’s from an incomplete process or done improperly. I’m not a refiner btw, I’m just here as my interests overlap at times

They don't appear to be newer boards, they look like the older style radio/testing equipment boards, but its hard to tell when they're charcoal.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Silicone compounds are also pyrolized into carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, a bit of Silicon(Si) and some additives.

So by pyrolizing the boards with an afterburner, you will be left with the non volatiles which can be ashed by allowing oxygen to enter the chamber after the pyrolizing has finished.

The end product will be ashes and metals. If done properly all/most dangerous compounds will be broken down and incinerated in the afterburner.

The end smoke should be scrubbed though to clean the smoke from minute residues of volatile elements as Br, Cl and other similar elements.

 

[voidforged]

Silicone compounds are also pyrolized into carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, a bit of Silicon(Si) and some additives.

So by pyrolizing the boards with an afterburner, you will be left with the non volatiles which can be ashed by allowing oxygen to enter the chamber after the pyrolizing has finished.

The end product will be ashes and metals. If done properly all/most dangerous compounds will be broken down and incinerated in the afterburner.

The end smoke should be scrubbed though to clean the smoke from minute residues of volatile elements as Br, Cl and other similar elements.

As I said at the top, I'm not the one that pyrolyzed the material. I can't ash it cost effectively as its a full 5 gallon bucket worth of material and the best I can do is a stainless pan over a fire pit or my forge. I have a decent sized kiln but I'd worry about exposing the elements to that much oxygen, plus its just too large a volume to reasonable ash in the first place. I think the best way to process this material would be to crush it down, pan it to separate metals from almost everything else, incinerate the concentrates from panning, and then process it as a mixed mess. I'm pretty much just asking for the best way to crush it down without a ball mill or spending too much, since this is the only time I'll have to process this type of material and won't accept any lots like this again.

 

[Jado]

They don't appear to be newer boards, they look like the older style radio/testing equipment boards, but its hard to tell when they're charcoal.

If it is indeed solid carbon, you have a few choices.

-Oxidation by incineration
-Dissolve everything in Nitric and filter
-use of a halogenic acid, not recommended at home
-manual breakage

 

[Yggdrasil]

If it is indeed solid carbon, you have a few choices.

-Oxidation by incineration
-Dissolve everything in Nitric and filter
-use of a halogenic acid, not recommended at home
-manual breakage

I agree, you just have to decide upon the route to go.

What kind of crushing or breaking methods do you have in your shop?
Do you have a regular coal forge available?

Break it as small as possible put it in an old stainless pan/bucket and roast it to redness while stirring.
This will get rid of most of the carbon.

Sieve it or pan it to reduce volume.
Then you can soak it in HCl ie (Halogenic Acid) until solder and other solubles has dissolved.

At this time the volume should be manageable.
Depending on the further plan,
you could roast it
(remove chlorides) then dissolve in Nitric and then go to AR
or go straight to you preferred method.

AP could also be done if time is of little importance.

As it is, the route you choose is dependent on what kind of tools you have available, and the time you are allowed to use.

Good luck Per-Ove

 

[Yggdrasil]

If it is indeed solid carbon, you have a few choices.

-Oxidation by incineration
-Dissolve everything in Nitric and filter
-use of a halogenic acid, not recommended at home
-manual breakage

Which halogenic acid are you talking about? We are all using HCl here.
And there would be no AR without it.

Edit for spelling.

 

[voidforged]

I agree, you just have to decide upon the route to go.

What kind of crushing or breaking methods do you have in your shop?
Do you have a regular coal forge available?

Break it as small as possible put it in an old stainless pan/bucket and roast it to redness while stirring.
This will get rid of most of the carbon.

Sieve it or pan it to reduce volume.
Then you can soak it in HCl ie (Halogenic Acid) until solder and other solubles has dissolved.

At this time the volume should be manageable.
Depending on the further plan,
you could roast it
(remove chlorides) then dissolve in Nitric and then go to AR
or go straight to you preferred method.

AP could also be done if time is of little importance.

As it is, the route you choose is dependent on what kind of tools you have available, and the time you are allowed to use.

Good luck Per-Ove

Right now I just have a small sample mortar and pestle type ore crusher. I do have a coal forge. I think I could probably get away with welding up a tube crusher and ram for it but that would still take a good while to crush all of it.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Right now I just have a small sample mortar and pestle type ore crusher. I do have a coal forge. I think I could probably get away with welding up a tube crusher and ram for it but that would still take a good while to crush all of it.

Good enough for testing, and a thick walled container on the coal forge will be a good incineration vessel. Thick walled Stainless or iron container.
Preferably low and wide. Raking the material around to get enough oxygen and heat.
Just my 2 cents.
Per-Ove
Edited for precision.

 

[Jado]

Which halogenic acid are you talking about? We are all using HCl here.
And there would be no AR without it.

Edit for spelling.

Chlorosulfuric comes to mind, as does HF. Nothing any of us want to play with. HF is the worst part of a bad day in my books

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yes I see your point, but HCl are also a halogenic acid, so that was why I wanted you to specify.

 

[Jado]

Yes I see your point, but HCl are also a halogenic acid, so that was why I wanted you to specify.

Yes it is, I’m just not in the habit of classifying it the same for ecological purposes (and HVA isn’t a term I use outside of work).

 

[GoIdman]

voidforged​

I usually first sieve off all the powdered material, put that aside for separating in a sluce box (home made for concentrating the stuff), the remained bigger solids are cathegorized into 3 separate cathegory....burned enough for crushing, half burned and unburned... the last two are going back for incineration until completely burned for crushing. For crushing I use an industrial blender for IC chips and meat grinder(motorized with reductor) for boards and other unknown solids. It works for me. After completely grinded all the stuff goes for sluce box. After that the acid treatment.

I try to separate everything mechanically.

I hope it helps

Be safe.

Pete.