RENAMED : TOADIES FIRST CELL
- Thread starter toadiesop
- Start date
Help Support Gold Refining Forum:
Sorry to tell you, but you got the NaOH drainer opener-- not the same thing. Rooto is a brand name that makes several varieties of drain openers. The stuff you want is in a large jug wrapped in a plastic bag. Try ACE hardware.
Steve
Steve
Thanks Steve, glad I DIDN'T buy it then, I was waiting for someone to reply to this first.... but now I have "Liquid Lightening".
$9.00 for 32 ounces.
It says Virgin Sulfuric Acid! Whoo hoo!!
It seemed kind of expensive for just 32 ounces, but I knew it had to be what I wanted.
I just googled it and came up with the MSDS.
http://www.lawsupply.net/cemicals/msds/Jones_Stephens/Floweasymsds.pdf
94% ?? woha!!
Any added recommendations? I think I've heard of 70% as the most common concentration.
I still have to go build my cathode before I start so I have a another quick question..
I don't have a "normal" battery charger per say. I have a tripp-lite pr-40. It puts out 40 amps though. Is that way to high or will it still work and I just have to watch it carefully because it will work so quickly.
OR..... can I use a PC power supply. They push about 5 amps or so if i remember right.... That will just take longer right? I have at least 30 laying around.
I know about the amperage meter and how you know when the gold is gone when it goes to zero.... I'm just wondering if either one of these supplies will work for tonight. I'm so excited for this.
I'm sure if neither one of these Power supplies are suitable for short time use, I can make some calls and a real one borrow later tonight when I'm ready to fire it up.
Thanks for any help anyone can give me.
EDIT!!!!!!!!!
And by the way, I'm not doing anything except construction of the cell until I hear back from someone. I'm not stupid.... 8)
$9.00 for 32 ounces.
It says Virgin Sulfuric Acid! Whoo hoo!!
It seemed kind of expensive for just 32 ounces, but I knew it had to be what I wanted.
I just googled it and came up with the MSDS.
http://www.lawsupply.net/cemicals/msds/Jones_Stephens/Floweasymsds.pdf
94% ?? woha!!
Any added recommendations? I think I've heard of 70% as the most common concentration.
I still have to go build my cathode before I start so I have a another quick question..
I don't have a "normal" battery charger per say. I have a tripp-lite pr-40. It puts out 40 amps though. Is that way to high or will it still work and I just have to watch it carefully because it will work so quickly.
OR..... can I use a PC power supply. They push about 5 amps or so if i remember right.... That will just take longer right? I have at least 30 laying around.
I know about the amperage meter and how you know when the gold is gone when it goes to zero.... I'm just wondering if either one of these supplies will work for tonight. I'm so excited for this.
I'm sure if neither one of these Power supplies are suitable for short time use, I can make some calls and a real one borrow later tonight when I'm ready to fire it up.
Thanks for any help anyone can give me.
EDIT!!!!!!!!!
And by the way, I'm not doing anything except construction of the cell until I hear back from someone. I'm not stupid.... 8)
I didn't have much luck with the pc supply myself, try it and let us know how it works for you. Is the tripplite a UPS (Uninterupptable Power Supply)? I never tried using one so I can say yeah or nay if it will work. The higher amps is no biggie as long as you don't over do the anode load vs the positive wire size ( larger wires handle more current). If the positive lead gets hot your pushing it too far. I'll keep an eye out tonight for your messages.
Steve
Steve
At this full strength, it may not work as well as it would if you were to dilute it a little. If you do dilute it, follow these instructions. If you're sure about the strength, I would dilute it to start with. Even if it isn't that strong, the dilution probably won't hurt
DON'T POUR THE WATER INTO THE SULFURIC!!! If you do you could create instant steam and splatter the acid all over.
Instead:
(1) Calculate how much water you'll need for a 5% (1/19 th water) dilution, by volume. This depends on how much acid you need for the cell. For example: For 19 fluid ounces of acid, use 1 fluid ounce of water. The ratio doesn't have to be perfect, just close.
(2) Measure the required water. Add the water to the empty cell.
(3) Put on your gloves and face shield. Carefully, add the required sulfuric to the water. It will get hot at first but, will cool off when most of the sulfuric has been added. Don't be startled if it fizzes a bit when you start adding the sulfuric.
(4) When the sulfuric is in, carefully stir it until blended. Try not to slop it over the sides.
DON'T POUR THE WATER INTO THE SULFURIC!!! If you do you could create instant steam and splatter the acid all over.
Instead:
(1) Calculate how much water you'll need for a 5% (1/19 th water) dilution, by volume. This depends on how much acid you need for the cell. For example: For 19 fluid ounces of acid, use 1 fluid ounce of water. The ratio doesn't have to be perfect, just close.
(2) Measure the required water. Add the water to the empty cell.
(3) Put on your gloves and face shield. Carefully, add the required sulfuric to the water. It will get hot at first but, will cool off when most of the sulfuric has been added. Don't be startled if it fizzes a bit when you start adding the sulfuric.
(4) When the sulfuric is in, carefully stir it until blended. Try not to slop it over the sides.
thanks steve and goldsilver pro. great info from both of you.
I've been trying to make my cathode and I'm having trouble. Nothing big, I can make the bars perfect, I'm just having problems getting the 90 degree angles melted together. I've watched the tutorials many times and I know weht I have to do, I just don't have the means (or the practice) to do it perfectly. I'd get one angle perfect and then loose all my lead (through a stupid tiny leak) on the other angle and then I'd start over.
So I sat around thinking... what can I make a mold with? If I made my 3 lead bars, and made a mold out of them I could just meltthe lead and pour it in..... sounds easy.
I found some Rockite (box says... expansion cement, stronger that concrete in one hour, dries in 15 minutes)
I only have a 16 ounce box (tag says $2.49) so my mold space is limited.... sooooo...... CD-ROM CASE!!! Looks perfect.
I gutted a CDROM and I'm about ready to fill the casing with Rockite and place my lead bars in there to make a mold. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes and I wish I could post pictures but the only way I'm getting batteries for my camera tonight is to spend $6 for two AAs at a convenience store. Nope.
But I'll be sure to keep you all informed and if it works well, I'll just do it again with camera at the ready.
or... maybe I'll look through the remote controls... :twisted: wouldn't be the first time.
I've been trying to make my cathode and I'm having trouble. Nothing big, I can make the bars perfect, I'm just having problems getting the 90 degree angles melted together. I've watched the tutorials many times and I know weht I have to do, I just don't have the means (or the practice) to do it perfectly. I'd get one angle perfect and then loose all my lead (through a stupid tiny leak) on the other angle and then I'd start over.
So I sat around thinking... what can I make a mold with? If I made my 3 lead bars, and made a mold out of them I could just meltthe lead and pour it in..... sounds easy.
I found some Rockite (box says... expansion cement, stronger that concrete in one hour, dries in 15 minutes)
I only have a 16 ounce box (tag says $2.49) so my mold space is limited.... sooooo...... CD-ROM CASE!!! Looks perfect.
I gutted a CDROM and I'm about ready to fill the casing with Rockite and place my lead bars in there to make a mold. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes and I wish I could post pictures but the only way I'm getting batteries for my camera tonight is to spend $6 for two AAs at a convenience store. Nope.
But I'll be sure to keep you all informed and if it works well, I'll just do it again with camera at the ready.
or... maybe I'll look through the remote controls... :twisted: wouldn't be the first time.
Here's a cathode mold that I use. It's the same one as in the video but with a right angle in it.
and a closeup of the weld for the 90. Notice the outside corner is all one continuous piece. I just cut a triangle out of the straight channel and bent:
It's all one piece just cut partially thru and bent into a 90 and welded at the seem. The ends are folded up to stop any leaks. To make the other side just flip the cooled cathode over press it into the mold and and refill with molten lead. Be sure the new joint of the cathode becomes fully molten and cools 100% before you move it. Warm lead is very brittle.
Steve
and a closeup of the weld for the 90. Notice the outside corner is all one continuous piece. I just cut a triangle out of the straight channel and bent:
It's all one piece just cut partially thru and bent into a 90 and welded at the seem. The ends are folded up to stop any leaks. To make the other side just flip the cooled cathode over press it into the mold and and refill with molten lead. Be sure the new joint of the cathode becomes fully molten and cools 100% before you move it. Warm lead is very brittle.
Steve
If you can't get the mold to work. I know that this is not the way that Steve designed it but, you could use a thin piece of sheet metal - maybe about 1/32". Use bare steel, not stainless or galvanized. Make it high enough to fold a bit over the edge of the container. Try to fold it tight so it doesn't swing out in the solution, You want it to stay pretty close to the side to keep from shorting out on the parts.
Chris,
Won't the steel cathde cause copper that gets dissolved to plate out as a fine red powder?
Steve
Won't the steel cathde cause copper that gets dissolved to plate out as a fine red powder?
Steve
It shouldn't be any different than using lead. If if plates on the steel, it'll plate on the lead. The solution makes the difference - not the cathode material. You could probably even use copper - it would be easier to mold around the edge.
Steve, are you talking about plating due to the current or immersion plating due to the relative positions of copper and iron (or lead) in the electromotive activity series? If the former, iron and lead should be the same, since the H2 generated at the cathode should keep the surfaces reduced to metal. When the current is shut off, the latter would apply. I suppose, if it sat in the solution long enough, the lead could form a lead sulfate coating and prevent copper from immersing on it.
If it does immerse on the iron, I wouldn't worry about it, After rinsing the cathode well, take a paper towel and wipe off the copper before reusing. It should be loosely adherent and come right off. I doubt if you'll need to do this, though. Although there's probably no values wiped off, you might save all paper towels for eventual burning and recovery of any gold.
Very little copper dissolves in strong sulfuric, especially the strength that toadiesop is using.
Steve, are you talking about plating due to the current or immersion plating due to the relative positions of copper and iron (or lead) in the electromotive activity series? If the former, iron and lead should be the same, since the H2 generated at the cathode should keep the surfaces reduced to metal. When the current is shut off, the latter would apply. I suppose, if it sat in the solution long enough, the lead could form a lead sulfate coating and prevent copper from immersing on it.
If it does immerse on the iron, I wouldn't worry about it, After rinsing the cathode well, take a paper towel and wipe off the copper before reusing. It should be loosely adherent and come right off. I doubt if you'll need to do this, though. Although there's probably no values wiped off, you might save all paper towels for eventual burning and recovery of any gold.
Very little copper dissolves in strong sulfuric, especially the strength that toadiesop is using.
toadiesop,
Are you cementing the mold or the lead? I know of no glue or cement that will stand up to strong sulfuric acid
Are you cementing the mold or the lead? I know of no glue or cement that will stand up to strong sulfuric acid
Thanks for the replies.
My mold didn't work because the "Rockite" formed way too quick as i was pouring it in the mold. It's my own fault though, I waited too long before I tried to set it. Oh well. I love to experiment anyways.. (don't we all?)
So I made my cathode, it's ugly, but like Steve said before.. they usually are. I just free formed it again. One side is great, but the other is, well, not so great. I think it will work just fine though.
Sadly, I don't know if I'm going to try it out tonight, I'm hungry and I need to clear space before I set it up. I think I might be too lazy after my midnight snack to get it going (even though I spent all day making it). :lol:
Please keep up the good info here. Sometimes it's hard to find all the really descriptive answers on this forum. They're EVERYWHERE! That's a very good thing, but I sometimes find myself going through every thread before I find the exact reply I was looking for.
I plan on compiling and editing all the imperative info on every thread down into a PDF within the next month or so. If anyone wants to help with that endeavor please let me know. It basically involves reading EVERY thread (again) and copy/paste/organize all the good stuff and categorize it into a PDF file. I think with all the great information that is on here, it's just hard to find sometimes. And it would take no time at all to update the PDF every month.
You know what I mean? There's great info on Platinum in the "general gold thread"
You might find excellent info on reverse electroplating in the Platinum section.
Just about every section has good information on Aqua Reqia..
ect.
It's something I've been thinking about. and of course the PDF would be linked ONLY from here and Steve's site (if you want to host it there Steve)
My mold didn't work because the "Rockite" formed way too quick as i was pouring it in the mold. It's my own fault though, I waited too long before I tried to set it. Oh well. I love to experiment anyways.. (don't we all?)
So I made my cathode, it's ugly, but like Steve said before.. they usually are. I just free formed it again. One side is great, but the other is, well, not so great. I think it will work just fine though.
Sadly, I don't know if I'm going to try it out tonight, I'm hungry and I need to clear space before I set it up. I think I might be too lazy after my midnight snack to get it going (even though I spent all day making it). :lol:
Please keep up the good info here. Sometimes it's hard to find all the really descriptive answers on this forum. They're EVERYWHERE! That's a very good thing, but I sometimes find myself going through every thread before I find the exact reply I was looking for.
I plan on compiling and editing all the imperative info on every thread down into a PDF within the next month or so. If anyone wants to help with that endeavor please let me know. It basically involves reading EVERY thread (again) and copy/paste/organize all the good stuff and categorize it into a PDF file. I think with all the great information that is on here, it's just hard to find sometimes. And it would take no time at all to update the PDF every month.
You know what I mean? There's great info on Platinum in the "general gold thread"
You might find excellent info on reverse electroplating in the Platinum section.
Just about every section has good information on Aqua Reqia..
ect.
It's something I've been thinking about. and of course the PDF would be linked ONLY from here and Steve's site (if you want to host it there Steve)
goldsilverpro, I missed your post right before my last one.
I was trying to use some lead bars that I made, cut them to the exact sizes needed and then set them in a fine concrete mold exactly the way I wanted the full cathode to look like.
I was going to set my three pieces in:
11
11
11
11
11
11 33
11 33
11 33
11 33
11 33
222222222222222222222222222222222222222222
222222222222222222222222222222222222222222
once the cement hardened I figured I could melt the lead out of it again and touch up the mold. Then I just pour fresh molten lead into the groove everytime I wanted a new cathode.
I was trying to use some lead bars that I made, cut them to the exact sizes needed and then set them in a fine concrete mold exactly the way I wanted the full cathode to look like.
I was going to set my three pieces in:
11
11
11
11
11
11 33
11 33
11 33
11 33
11 33
222222222222222222222222222222222222222222
222222222222222222222222222222222222222222
once the cement hardened I figured I could melt the lead out of it again and touch up the mold. Then I just pour fresh molten lead into the groove everytime I wanted a new cathode.
Good luck. I'm sure it will work.
Good idea on the organization. It's gotten big so fast. And, many things are now haphazard. Probably the categories could have been a little different to better organize things but, who knew what to use at the start? Thank God for Search. Maybe the pdf's should be made Stickies.
Wish I had time to help but, I seem to spend all my time posting.
Good idea on the organization. It's gotten big so fast. And, many things are now haphazard. Probably the categories could have been a little different to better organize things but, who knew what to use at the start? Thank God for Search. Maybe the pdf's should be made Stickies.
Wish I had time to help but, I seem to spend all my time posting.
I haven't made one so, I can't answer with knowledge. Better ask Steve.
Nothing wrong with that at all!! And you're right that this got big quick. I have no question that I can get the PDFs together, it's just a matter even more free time.
I would have had a great start on it today if I wasn't spending all my time building my first cell.
:lol:
We both seem to be one post behind for the last 5 or 6 posts.
I'm going to bed.
I'm going to bed.
Toadie,
I've gotten all the first four sections into pdf and parts of others. I haven't done any editing just printing to pdf. It's not that big of a project, just really boring printing pages over and over. I may have to break out with a vbs script get the job done on a continuous basis. Once they are creatd updating them is a piece of cake if you just stay up on it. I'll have some samples of the pdfs soon.
Steve
I've gotten all the first four sections into pdf and parts of others. I haven't done any editing just printing to pdf. It's not that big of a project, just really boring printing pages over and over. I may have to break out with a vbs script get the job done on a continuous basis. Once they are creatd updating them is a piece of cake if you just stay up on it. I'll have some samples of the pdfs soon.
Steve
Fever
Well-known member
toadiesop said:
This is an outstanding idea, Todie!
I have also been thinking of a good way to save all of these excellent posts in some sort of organized way, specific to particular applications. There is soooooo much good stuff in here. Prior to finding this forum, I'd been searching for months to find much of the simple information posted here everyday! This place is indeed quite special....
Please keep us posted on your progress with your cell. I'm in the same stage of completion as yourself with my cell, and I too love to experiment with different options.
Fever
