Repirator masks????

[wildbill_hickup]

I'm working in a 50X50 foot barn with doors open east and west(but it's not outdoors). In addition I have a resporator mask with organic compound filters, it lists acids as being among filtered elements. Is this safe enough, having made biodiesel I know there are compounds that will go right through those carbon filters (fumes from mathanol and sodium hydroxide) Nasty Nasty stuff.

 

[Noxx]

Just be sure your cartridges are against acid fumes (Chlorine, HCl, etc)

I'm pretty sure your cartridges aren't made against NO2 fumes. Mine aren't.

You should seriously consider building a fume hood. It can be cheap but still efficient.

 

[Rag and Bone]

What mask cartridges are made to block NO2? I haven't been able to find any that will.

 

[Noxx]

None that I know... Better use a fume hood.

 

[viacin]

I bought this.

3M 5103 Organic Vapor / Acid Gas Half-Face Respirator
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=370085074672&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=024

Am I safe? 3M is a good company, and according to the sales pitch I am ok, but I'm smart enough not to trust my life to someone trying to sell me something.

"When properly fitted, helps provide respiratory protection from certain organic vapors, chlorine, hydrogen chloride, sulfur dioxide, or hydrogen sulfide (escape only) or hydrogen fluoride at concentrations up to 10 times the Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL). Not for use in environments that are immediately dangerous to life or health (IDLH)."

 

[Noxx]

Yes it does a good job. But you are not completely protected against NOx fumes.

 

[qst42know]

Using any cartridge not meant for vapors or fumes you are dealing with is dangerous it gives a false sense of security. Perhaps what you need is an air supplied respirator. Air pumped in from a safe distance. If either of you are using these to get up close and personal with your reactions how are you dealing with your other exposed skin?

 

[viacin]

qst. What you speak of is a SCBA (Self Contained Breathing Apparatus Supplied Air) system. A very nice set up indeed, but expensive and heavy (think firefighter). They range from $500 to $3,500. Plus they require maintenance, and you have to replaced/refilled the containers pretty regularly.

Here's a nice one:
http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/scott-scba.htm

As far as skin cover goes, I have a chemical apron, gloves, and face shield. But I would like a "marshmellow" suit. The kind of chemicals used by refiners require Level B/C minimum, but Level A/B seems over kill to me. Here's a nice chart for Tyvek products permeation. It starts on page 44.
http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/TychemPermeationGuide2.pdf


Here's some suits, but they can be found on e-bay much cheaper.
http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/chemical-suit.htm

 

[qst42know]

Not self contained tanks. The type I meant are like a sand blaster would use. Because no cartridge could keep up with the volume of dust. The air is supplied through a hose like a vacuum cleaner always under positive pressure the surplus supply is exhausted out the mask.

Anyway more to the point I was trying to illustrate, before I would suit up like any of these methods (full body gear, and cartridges not meant for the fumes you are generating, etc.) your reaction is contained not spilled on a factory floor or all over a highway. It would be more logical to control them at the source.

A fume hood would seem a better investment, even a home constructed one.

I guess I should have just said that outright.

Chris

 

[viacin]

well Chris, you're right. A properly built fume hood would be ideal. I wonder if you could buy some glass windows at the hardware store, and build a nice one with some wood strips. I'll have to find some plans for one once I need it. I do all my work outside on a portable table though. The wind is my fume hood My main concern is a sudden shift in wind, or a ***** move (i.e. not expecting fumes and lean over the beakers like a moron).

Plus I'm using your 2-liter bottle and marble idea, so fumes should be minimum. One could hold their breath and pull out if you have good timing. [Insert bad joke here]

If the weather works out for me this weekend I will be making some nitric acid. After three weeks of planning, it decided to rain on the big day. Maybe a shed and fume hood would be a good idea after all....

 

[butcher]

Wait for a better day,and my belief is anyone who does this, is doing so at their own risk, no matter how good a fume hood, gas masks, and breath holding,or whatever, not to scare you Viacin, but done long enough you will be getting these metals and substance's into your system,

 

[viacin]

I figure over the long term this could be a deadly hobby, no matter how careful you are. But so is just about everything else. Drinking out of alumnium cans, baking on cheap teflon pots, using artificial sweetners, cell phones, etc., etc.

A lot of you have been doing this for years, some even decades. Anyone care to comment on the long term affects or diseases you have seen or have yourself, and whether it could really be related or not?

 

[Harold_V]

well Chris, you're right. A properly built fume hood would be ideal. I wonder if you could buy some glass windows at the hardware store, and build a nice one with some wood strips.

Wood and nitric acid?

Harold

 

[viacin]

"MATERIALS FOR HOODS
The chemists normally use glass-walled hoods, with flues of terra
cotta or stoneware. Wire fire-proof glass is excellent. The back
walls are usually stone.The jeweler may not wish to use such expensive materials. Glass set in wood frames will serve excellently for years, especially if the wood be coated with acid-proof paint." "Refining Precious Metals Wastes by CM. Hoke, page 28

 

[Harold_V]

Glass set in wood frames will serve excellently for years, especially if the wood be coated with acid-proof paint." "Refining Precious Metals Wastes by CM. Hoke, page 28

I'm impressed. Really~! So often I recommend Hoke, and often wonder if my words fall on deaf ears....

My real exception to using wood, or even glass, is that a fume hood will not serve you fully unless it can be used for incineration. It's a vital part of refining----especially if you process wastes from the jeweler's bench.

I had a negative experience with my first hood, which was not given enough consideration. I nearly burned down my house. Luckily, I caught the flames early enough to be able to extinguish the fire, which had spread to the roof, interior of my garage. I had built my first attempt from fiber glass. Not a good idea.

My last two generations of hoods were made entirely of asbestos, but that day has passed. It would border on the impossible for anyone to procure the material today.

Harold

 

[butcher]

nitrates and wood ect. can become much more flammable.
this hobby is not as benighn to health as drinking from aluminum cans.
many metals are poisions, these are in such small particles in the gasses evolved,in the things you handle and they can be transported through air, by you to other places where you dont have your "space suit" on to protect you from, ask a jewler how much gold is in different places in the shop, or in his home miles away from his work bench, yes I agree many things you do are dangerous,I have been exposed to most all of the dangerous things there are just making a living, for many years before they were considered so dangerous, and without the saftey equiptment they have nowadays, and out of habit I still dont use them now as I should, but I educate myself on the dangers and try to avoid the risks, my body is pretty crippled up from the industrial accidents , luckily so far my health is fairly good, but I was lucky to have been born with a strong system, but I know it will evientually catch up to me my only hope is when it does that it just kills me quickly and not suffering from cancer dragged out for years dieing slowly dayly draining any thing from my family emotionly and financially,

Viacin EDUCATE yourself on the dangers, it will probably do more to protect you and your family than the "Space Suit"

this is a dangerous hobby with education you can minimize the danger
but not eliminate the danger,

 

[viacin]

I'm impressed. Really~! So often I recommend Hoke, and often wonder if my words fall on deaf ears....

Harold, the day you recommended Hokes book to me was the day I began reading it. I'm an avid book reader and this was exactly what I wanted from day one! I finished it the next day, despite the fact that it was a e-book - I need a hardcopy in my hands to really enjoy it. I have memorized the first few chapters pertaining to the processes I'm trying to accomplish and plan to do the same to the later chapters as I advance. This book is now one of my favoites, and I now understand why you want everyone to read it.

I had a negative experience with my first hood, which was not given enough consideration. I nearly burned down my house. Luckily, I caught the flames early enough to be able to extinguish the fire, which had spread to the roof, interior of my garage.

I don't know if I could ever do this stuff in my house, I'm just so extremly cautions about any kind of chemicals it puts me almost fearful of them. I have thought about getting one of those nice sheds from Home Depot and modifying it for my needs. Refining outside all year long is going to be tough, if not impossible. As the cool air finally begins to blow in my area I find myself wishing for more shelter already! But I'm sure your needs for shelter were much greater than mine, since you are farther North. It finally dipped down to 50F last night and I'm freezing! lol.

It's going to 79F today, so I may make my first attempt. My sodium nitrate came in at 6:50 yesterday, and it was dark by 7:30. what luck! I'm not happy with the plastic strainer I have found, and I would like to wait for my marbles to get in too. I suppose it may be best to wait and not rush things.

My last two generations of hoods were made entirely of asbestos, but that day has passed. It would border on the impossible for anyone to procure the material today.

You can buy abestos, but the ammount you can get is quite small. I don't think it's illegal to make (?) or buy it, you just cannot build with it anymore. We buy abestos gloves at work, so surely someone is still making large sheets for commercial operations. It probably comes from other countries.

 

[tamerakshar]

what about the ones that comes from military areas; with a big black filter piece on the left.....?

 

[Noxx]

It depends on what the cartridge is made for.

What you need is a cartridge for acid vapors.

 

[Anonymous]

My last two generations of hoods were made entirely of asbestos, but that day has passed. It would border on the impossible for anyone to procure the material today.

Harold

Hi,
there are still huge hills of free asbestos in Cassiar, BC Canada. Cassiar was the biggest asbestos manufacturer in N.America. It is a ghost town now. So, if U need it, just come and take as much, as U need.
Regards,
Hugo