Rhodium percent

[jaan777zaibs]

Hello Respected Members
A person has some material of 10kg. It has 9.7% Rhodium in the laboratory report. It has small pieces of 300-400 grams that collectively, make its weight 10 kg. The material is lightweight, very fragile (can be easily broken), dark black in color with small silvery shining particles as well as small round grain size particles. My question here is should I buy this material and what should be its value as well as how can I process the Rhodium from it? All your valuable answers would be highly appreciated. The pictures and laboratory report are attached.
Kind regards;

 

[Lino1406]

1. Finely grind 100 mesh and more
2. Try panning

 

[jaan777zaibs]

Thanks for your answer. can you please elaborate it a little more? I can,t understand it completely.

 

[Lino1406]

100 mesh means 1/100 of an inch, and finer, best 500 mesh - dust. Panning means gravity separation using water

 

[goldandsilver123]

There's no rhodium.

That's instrument error, this software is made to analyse dense materials, like metals, analysing rocks will result in errors.

If you put a piece of acrylic it will show 10 % rhodium, because of this error

 

[jaan777zaibs]

There's no rhodium.

That's instrument error, this software is made to analyse dense materials, like metals, analysing rocks will result in errors.

If you put a piece of acrylic it will show 10 % rhodium, because of this error

Thank you Sir.

 

[NanoCat]

it looks like a schist. We have seen Au come out of schist and PGMs always run with Au to some extent or another. And yes XRF instrument errors are common. Even if the XRF is correct, you still need to figure out how to A. get the Rh into solution and then B. how to get it to a Refinable state. Can't hurt to grind it up super fine, then put it in a Krups coffee grinder SF102 I think the one with replaceable blades. Grind it up to talcum powder size. Now see what happens with HCl, pool shock, and H2O2, really hot. Get that exhaust fan going before you start cooking.

 

[MarkSovnin]

Hello Respected Members
A person has some material of 10kg. It has 9.7% Rhodium in the laboratory report. It has small pieces of 300-400 grams that collectively, make its weight 10 kg. The material is lightweight, very fragile (can be easily broken), dark black in color with small silvery shining particles as well as small round grain size particles. My question here is should I buy this material and what should be its value as well as how can I process the Rhodium from it? All your valuable answers would be highly appreciated. The pictures and laboratory report are attached.
Kind regards;

If you need rhodium refined in powder, then I can sell it to you.

 

[Yggdrasil]

If you need rhodium refined in powder, then I can sell it to you.

This post belongs in the Buy and Sell section.

 

[Ultrax]

If you need rhodium refined in powder, then I can sell it to you.

It is forbidden to sell or buy rare earth metals originating from Russia.
Russian Federation is under strict US sanctions due to the aggressive war in Ukraine.

Sellers and buyers are subject to broad criminal liability for the illegal rare earth metals trading with Russia.

 

[rushmore37]

I have small amounts of black powder that contain RH from 10-35% plus likely other PM's. These were obtained via a proprietary lab leach process that ran several separate two pound tests on dressed concentrates from ores in the Mojave dessert and also some from the SD Black Hills. A local coin shop tested a few of these on their 100K+ machine. My question from anyone knowledgeable is how do I best separate and/or refine the materials so as to have them as separate AU, AG, RH, PD, PT, and any others within the mix, so I can get an idea of potential quantities of each. As I recall I ran separate extraction on any AG so that may not still be in the mix, maybe AU too. Is there a ladder that would indicate one should begin with one or another followed by the next, in sequence? If I can get answers to these variables, then I can step up this process in a more logical fashion. I also wonder if a mixer-settler system would be viable that could separate these various metals in sequence and perhaps rare earths as well. Any ideas greatly appreciated -- Thanks!

 

[Yggdrasil]

I have small amounts of black powder that contain RH from 10-35% plus likely other PM's. These were obtained via a proprietary lab leach process that ran several separate two pound tests on dressed concentrates from ores in the Mojave dessert and also some from the SD Black Hills. A local coin shop tested a few of these on their 100K+ machine. My question from anyone knowledgeable is how do I best separate and/or refine the materials so as to have them as separate AU, AG, RH, PD, PT, and any others within the mix, so I can get an idea of potential quantities of each. As I recall I ran separate extraction on any AG so that may not still be in the mix, maybe AU too. Is there a ladder that would indicate one should begin with one or another followed by the next, in sequence? If I can get answers to these variables, then I can step up this process in a more logical fashion. I also wonder if a mixer-settler system would be viable that could separate these various metals in sequence and perhaps rare earths as well. Any ideas greatly appreciated -- Thanks!

Much to comment here.
First PlatinumGroupMetal salts are very toxic.
So you might consider having it refined by a proper lab or sold directly.
But to do that you need a proper PGM assay, which are not cheap.

I do not think anyone would buy on a XRF assay, even with a 100k machine they may not necessarily have sufficient precision.

 

[galenrog]

It is my opinion that the local coin shop you mention has an XRF machine loaded with a Precious Metals Library. This means the software is designed to identify precious metals, and metals commonly associated with precious metal alloys.

This likely being the case, and I would need actual evidence contrary to change my opinion, such software commonly misidentifies arsenic and many sulfide compounds as iridium, rhodium, or platinum.

This has been discussed on the Forum innumerable times and demonstrated by several members.

In short, an XRF device, regardless of how expensive, is only as good as the combination of software, also called library, calibration, and operator knowledge and expertise, with operator knowledge of library limitations being primary.

Time for more coffee.

 

[rushmore37]

Much to comment here.
First PlatinumGroupMetal salts are very toxic.
So you might consider having it refined by a proper lab or sold directly.
But to do that you need a proper PGM assay, which are not cheap.

I do not think anyone would buy on a XRF assay, even with a 100k machine they may not necessarily have sufficient precision.

Appreciate your response. Do you have any suggestions as to "proper lab" s, or direct buyers? When I last checked, there were a couple large operators but they wanted a minimum value of $5-10,000, but when you are working on tiny lab results you really do not know how much value is in these tests. A PGM assay makes a lot of sense but again, who does these and approximately how much do they cost, since they are not cheap, and how much material do they need per test in order to assay? On the other hand, results of these could be much more valuable than the costs since major plus or minus decisions could be made based on them. Thx!

 

[rushmore37]

It is my opinion that the local coin shop you mention has an XRF machine loaded with a Precious Metals Library. This means the software is designed to identify precious metals, and metals commonly associated with precious metal alloys.

This likely being the case, and I would need actual evidence contrary to change my opinion, such software commonly misidentifies arsenic and many sulfide compounds as iridium, rhodium, or platinum.

This has been discussed on the Forum innumerable times and demonstrated by several members.

In short, an XRF device, regardless of how expensive, is only as good as the combination of software, also called library, calibration, and operator knowledge and expertise, with operator knowledge of library limitations being primary.

Time for more coffee.

Thank You for your observations. Yes, I will check on their machine specifics as I know already about the false positives regarding PGM's of some of this equipment. On the other hand, the leaching process that extracted these results is a sound process developed by a long-time processor/professor, but it was necessary to scale it down to lab size and it is possible that some of the results may have slightly changed. Dressing the ore before leaching is paramount. Also, I substituted a few ingredients in order to keep the process "green" in case I decided to do this in CA, rather than transport the cons to another state. Testing during the process showed that the results were as good or better than what might have been expected but the truth will be in the pudding, so to speak, after assay(s). Then again, these tests were done several years ago and then interrupted by health issues and a few major surgeries which I am now finally recovering from. Coffee sounds good but the days of late have had nights that have been very late and days too long.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Thank You for your observations. Yes, I will check on their machine specifics as I know already about the false positives regarding PGM's of some of this equipment. On the other hand, the leaching process that extracted these results is a sound process developed by a long-time processor/professor, but it was necessary to scale it down to lab size and it is possible that some of the results may have slightly changed. Dressing the ore before leaching is paramount. Also, I substituted a few ingredients in order to keep the process "green" in case I decided to do this in CA, rather than transport the cons to another state. Testing during the process showed that the results were as good or better than what might have been expected but the truth will be in the pudding, so to speak, after assay(s). Then again, these tests were done several years ago and then interrupted by health issues and a few major surgeries which I am now finally recovering from. Coffee sounds good but the days of late have had nights that have been very late and days too long.

You could start by telling us what procedure you are following.
The majority of lab procedures are done for research papers and do not scale or transfer well to real life condition.
We have professional PGM refiners as members, so by giving us more information they might chime in and give some good advice.
Anyways, I would guess all your questions have already been answered before, so search the forum.

Regarding green chemicals, that is like a mirage, many talk about them but the moment you have dissolved a metal it is as “dirty” as anything else.
Especially is that a extremely dangerous perception if one deals with PGM salts.

Which chemicals are you talking about?

 

[rushmore37]

You could start by telling us what procedure you are following.
The majority of lab procedures are done for research papers and do not scale or transfer well to real life condition.
We have professional PGM refiners as members, so by giving us more information they might chime in and give some good advice.
Anyways, I would guess all your questions have already been answered before, so search the forum.

Regarding green chemicals, that is like a mirage, many talk about them but the moment you have dissolved a metal it is as “dirty” as anything else.
Especially is that a extremely dangerous perception if one deals with PGM salts.

Which chemicals are you talking about?

Yes, I agree with you on the scale or transfer to real life conditions, as I too have experienced this with many things. As time permits I will also search the forum and have already learned some valuable info there. When I speak of green ingredients, I am taking into consideration the entire process so that anything made dirty can also be made un-dirty via filtration, neutralization, etc. Oftentimes, the results at a certain stage might be further transferred to an external (or internal) refiner or other processor for finishing and completion, probably even in another acceptable state or jurisdiction. I can't really get into specifics at present because it is too premature until I am more confident of the total envisioned process and actual results obtained. Many times even small solutions to problems can open up larger gateways for progress. Also taken into consideration at each level are the steps that might be needed to go from lab to pilot to small scale to even medium or large scale.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yes, I agree with you on the scale or transfer to real life conditions, as I too have experienced this with many things. As time permits I will also search the forum and have already learned some valuable info there. When I speak of green ingredients, I am taking into consideration the entire process so that anything made dirty can also be made un-dirty via filtration, neutralization, etc. Oftentimes, the results at a certain stage might be further transferred to an external (or internal) refiner or other processor for finishing and completion, probably even in another acceptable state or jurisdiction. I can't really get into specifics at present because it is too premature until I am more confident of the total envisioned process and actual results obtained. Many times even small solutions to problems can open up larger gateways for progress. Also taken into consideration at each level are the steps that might be needed to go from lab to pilot to small scale to even medium or large scale.

Fair enough.
Anyway I doubt there are procedures not known by our professional refiners that will have merit outside a lab.
And what ever procedure you use, if it actually work, it will most likely already be in use by our members.

If you want advice, we need to know what you are doing.

 

[rushmore37]

It seems the procedures used to obtain my lab results samples, which consisted of a leaching process, are now a mute point, since it appears I will likely have to send these samples to a third party lab/refiner to generate those actual assay results. At that time I can then begin making decisions as to a direction to go. I have not proceeded with anything beyond obtaining these leach results, so there are no procedures that I have taken in that regard as yet. I have done assays of gold and silver before, but to assay PGM's is a process beyond my capabilities at the present time. One could monkey around with Aqua Regia and things, but it would be helpful to know what ingredients are more or less present, prior to experimenting in ways that might otherwise alter values of things that may or may not be economic in nature. My primary goals are towards scaled production of desired product, assuming the assay results point to an economic given direction.

 

[hoytSmith]

I get sucked in sometimes....

You are mid-process with an unknown starting material and unknown preceding steps.

I divine a couple of questions I can respond to:

How do I maximize the return on my potential wealth (Rhodium)? If you are certain enough to pay cash: you pay to have a quantitative analysis done on a representative sample. You present those results to "someone" who will buy your material. You sent that someone a second representative sample, they agree to accept your material on a contingency basis -- if that doesn't create certainty, a sample is taken from the bulk and analyzed again when it arrives at a refine facility.

And to paraphrase greatly: "I'm smart; I've done lots of stuff; I'm very lucky. Think I can wing it?" --This is me at the start of most projects I undertake. I manage to extricate myself from most of them, but there have been casualties. I don't think anyone here would recommend it.

You have completed step #1: obtain potentially valuable stuff
You're pretty sure but you're not willing to borrow $10k to find out steps 2-$$ so you're thinking of doing it yourself ... if that's you, you have chosen sweat equity. The upfront cost varies with circumstances. Until you have a complete theoritical process with entities in place to do what you cannot, I recommend that you store your stuff safely. I'm gonna say that you should really, really know what's in it before you do, because, if you do not, really bad things can happen that you currently cannot imagine, even if you can imagine a lot of really bad things happening. Imagine that the material becomes exothermic when there a large enough mass, enought to accelerate a chemical reaction. Imagine a fire, an earthquake, a flood. Imagine spending a couple of years saving it up and then you find out that you don't have enough for any refining outfit to process, given the risks inherent in accepting unverified material from an unknown entity. Imagine dying with a shed full and nobody else knows what to do.

I came to be on the site through a lot of work exposure to chemistry, chemical engineering, material science, process engineering, law, and health. I (legally) acquired precious metals. I was curious to see if I could refine them. I scanned hoke before I started. I made brown water. (I had a lot to clean up once I accepted that I could not wing the chemistry) I followed most of the rules. I took calculated risks. I made mistakes. I did not die, I only hurt myself a few times. I don't think I have cancer.

I relied on having spend 5 years in a nuclear power plant as an adequate basis to consider myself qualified to assess safety requirements. Spill drills are taken as seriously as real spills. Choosing the right PPE for any particular evolution is mandatory. Having a spill kit large enough for any spill is mandatory. Limiting batches to a size that your spill kit can handle is mandatory. Learning how PPE is supposed to fit and how to ensure that it stays fitted for the entire time, then removing it without spreading contamination is just as important as simply wearing it.

I have now arrived at the end of step 1: I know what I have. I have the rest of the journey to undertake.

If you're really sure enough to borrow then borrow money to have it analyzed by an independent assayer/chemist, and go on to step 3. If you have to learn enough chemistry and safety to do the rhodium chemistry and you don't have the background, it's going to be a while. You will need equipment, chemicals, etc. There's no free way to do it, as far as I know.