Safety Concerns

[dsmith2828]

Hi all,
First let me say thanks for all the great information, I have been learning a lot and look forward to starting into the hobby. Albeit I am nervous about the chemicals, which is why I have some questions on storing of them and workspace setup that I would like to get answered before I do start.

Storage of Chemicals:
Using the Acid Peroxide and Clorox Methods that Steve has shown I am try to figure the best way to store the Muriatic Acid. I was thinking of getting something along the idea of a RubberMaid cabinet to put outside and store it there but with living in Florida I am afraid that it might be too much heat for it considering that I would be in an uncovered space, just in the cabinet.

Also, once finished with the either solutions, can they be stored in a sealed container without issue or concerns of heat in the same cabinet?

Workspace:
Currently I am thinking of working in the garage for this but I have concerns around the gases that are created. I have fans to use but those will push the gases out the main door onto the cars. In addition, my air handler for the house AC is right above the garage which leads to the following questions.

1. When mixing for either methods mentioned above do I need to be concerned with the cars out front or the gases getting into the AC system and going into the house with the fan going? Just not sure how long the gases are viable.

2. How long do the gases get produced. I know with the Acid Peroxide method the Peroxide will break down to water but what about the Clorox method. If I am done for the day, can I close the garage door and feel confident that the gases will not build and make their way into the house? Now I know that all depends on when they were mixed so don't do it right before bed but what is a safe timeframe, if any.

Sorry if these have been answered before and I missed them I just want to make sure that all the bases are covered before starting and accumulating waste. Any help is very much appreciated.

Thanks

Dennis

 

[4metals]

Storing the acid outdoors in a Rubbermaid storage cabinet should not be an issue as long as the individual bottles are kept cracked open slightly so the pressure generated from the sun beating down on them all day doesn't cause a container to burst.

As far as processing in your garage, you didn't mention what you are processing or the quantities. Generally it is a good idea to use an exhaust hood to get the fumes out of your work area. If you are doing any kind of quantity, a scrubber will prevent you from needing to repaint your cars. There are scrubber & hood designs for small refiners all the way up to production setups discussed and detailed on the forum.

Let us know what you intend to process and the quantities and we can assist you further.

 

[dsmith2828]

4metals thanks for the reply and the idea about the scrubber. I will take a look around the forum for it.

On the storage, with having the bottles open, should I have any concerns with the neihbors and fumes? We only have about 20 feet between the houses on the side I was looking to store the chemicals on along with air condition systems and a wood fence.

As for the quantities, I think they would be considered as small. As of now, I have about 100 memory dimms, 10 PCI cards and 10 motherboards. But not looking to process all at once. Maybe get up to a processing container that is a gallon in size.

 

[4metals]

When I say keep the lids cracked open I mean loosened ever so slightly so the fumes aren't leaking out unless pressure develops from the sun beating down on it. That way the smell should be very slight.

As far as the ventilation you will need for small quantities, I'd rather let those who have processed small quantities of e-scrap advise you. My experience is with large quantities where going without a hood is no option.

 

[Oz]

One of the best ways I have found to minimize fumes for small digestions is to use an erlenmeyer flask with a glass funnel set in the top of it. The funnel still allows pressure to escape but refluxes the majority of the fumes back into your solution instead of the air around you.

There is one major drawback to this. Erlenmeyer flasks rapidly run out of room the closer you get to the top unlike your standard beaker, and is therefore far more prone to a foam over. You must either know what reaction you will get with your process, or proceed very slowly with any change in temperature or additions of reagents.

 

[shaftsinkerawc]

I use the same process with flask and glass funnel but also use a marble or a rubber mouse ball as a gravity stopper. Keeps the HCL fumes at bay when running AP tests and the Peroxide can be added to the funnel a little at a time.

 

[dsmith2828]

All, thanks for the information. I came across these cabinets on Graingers website, http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SCIMATCO-Mini-StakACab-Stand-4LND3. Do you think this will work to store the HCL in one cabinet and the AP, HCl-Cl and AR in another cabinet in sealed containers in the garage?

 

[goldsilverpro]

I agree with 4metals. Cheap and effective.

Storing the acid outdoors in a Rubbermaid storage cabinet should not be an issue as long as the individual bottles are kept cracked open slightly so the pressure generated from the sun beating down on them all day doesn't cause a container to burst.

 

[dsmith2828]

OK what do you all think about this cabinet, http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07169295000P?prdNo=11&blockNo=11&blockType=G11? It will provide more space outside while keeping the fumes out there as well.
That does bring up another question though. For HCL-CL and AP mixtures would they be able to stay in the same cabinet with the HCL if they are in sealed containers?

 

[Barren Realms 007]

You can find a similar unit cheaper at home depot. Yes to your other question.

 

[dsmith2828]

Thanks I will take a look there. I feel a lot better knowing that I will be able to store this outside in the sun somewhat and not have to worry about it being in the garage and perhaps the fumes getting into the house.

For the storage unit, should I put some holes around the top sides for better ventilation and how far should I keep it from the outside AC condensor? Really don't want to eat that away.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

I wouldn't worry about the holes unless you find there is a problem inside the unit that requires them. Your condenser will probably be ok, just keep a check on the copper tubing for any signs of corrosion.

 

[Harold_V]

I wouldn't worry about the holes unless you find there is a problem inside the unit that requires them. Your condenser will probably be ok, just keep a check on the copper tubing for any signs of corrosion.

Fins on the bulk of this type of equipment are made of aluminum, which is dissolved readily by HCl. I strongly recommend you not store chemicals anywhere near such a unit. Even out of doors, if you have acid fumes present, you can expect accelerated decay of metal objects.

Harold

 

[dsmith2828]

Harold, thanks for that tidbit. My wife would kill me if the AC condenser got eaten away. She has already mentioned that she does not really care for the chemicals being around. I may need to find a place in the garage now. The only place that was suitable outside was on the side of the house that has the AC condenser and that was going to be within 8' of it.

If anyone else would like to chime in on how they store there chemicals I would appreciate it.

 

[Harold_V]

I hate to wet on your charcoal, but storing acids in your garage isn't a good idea, either. These things yield fumes, even when they appear to be tightly stoppered. Over the years, everything in my lab that wasn't brass rusted, including stainless hardware. All copper based items were green, from exposure to fumes. I ran my fume hood almost constantly, and I didn't allow old filters to sit idle---they were immediately placed under burners where they would be dried rapidly, then incinerated. Through all that, the end result was rust, and corroded window frames (anodized aluminum).

If your garage is attached, and you have a door that leads directly to your house from within, I expect you'll have acid smells in your house constantly. An old acquaintance, now long dead, used to refine in his basement. His house was a mess from fumes. He eventually moved his operation to a lean-to behind his garage.

For your own good, and for peace at home, please investigate some type of outdoor storage.

Harold

 

[dsmith2828]

Well I guess I have to start looking for a small shed to put up on the other side of the house. Was really hoping not to have to do that though. May have to reconsider the hobbie. Thanks to everyone for the information. It has been very helpful and informative.

 

[dsmith2828]

OK I can't let this go. If I was to work outside what do you think the radius would be for a safe work area if I ran the fumes through a small scrubber setup using the four flask system that Pawnbroker Bob describes in this post? http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3269&hilit=qst42know+condenser&start=20

 

[Sodbuster]

You mite be able to use an old non working refrigerator or freezer for a storage cabinet. Park it out back of the garage, or hidden up against a fence maybe.

The inside of most all refrigerators and freezers these days are plastic, glass shelves and enamel painted surfaces, and should hold up for a couple of years at the least.

As it gets to the point you don't trust the integrity of the shelf brackets any longer, you just swap it out for another refrigerator. Broken refrigerators should be easy to come by if the junkman don't see it first.

Most freezers have a keyed lock, if you have kids playing in the yard.

Just a thought. I know this is a somewhat outdated post and you probably already have a solution to the storage issues. In that case I'm just rambling again.

Ray