Sulfuric acid (food grade or alternative) for blueberry plants

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1

1sep1969

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2022
Messages
5
Location
Canada
Just to let you know in advance, I'm an amateur, not into chemistry. I use Sulfuric acid (diluted in water) for my blueberry plants to keep the soil ph down. For now, I buy an expansive ph down solution for fish and plants (I'm assuming it's safe enough for blueberry plants).

I would like to get food grade sulfuric acid, but I can't find it online. There is one website, but it's super expensive (around 95% sulfuric).

Another option is (new, store bought, not used) battery acid. Many amateur blueberry growers use battery acid and they say it's pure enough for consumption and blueberry plants, and that it doesn't contain heavy metals. Apparently, purer than elemental sulfur. But it's not labeled "food grade", so I always hesitate.

I'm never going to be able to get food grade, so what can I do?

Options:

1. Is ACS Reagent Grade (Sulfuric Acid 96% ACS Reagent Grade Solution (95-98%, Concentrated H2SO4)) or Lab Grade (Sulfuric Acid 93% (92-94%) Solution, Lab Grade) good enough? Note the concentration is high, and would rather not deal with high concentration in order to dilute it...

2. Use battery acid? A hydroponic website (A guide to different pH down options in hydroponics – Science in Hydroponics) recommends battery acid and states: " Note however that most battery acid products in developed countries are also ok, as the quality of these acids demands the metallic impurities (more commonly iron) to be quite low. If in doubt, you can do a lab test of the sulfuric acid to see if any impurities are present. "

How can I do a lab test? Where do I go as an individual (not a company) and ask what exactly? I did a search for "lab test solution", but I get all sorts of results and no clue what type of test to choose. It's complicated. I live in Canada, btw.

Please do not lecture me about the use of diluted sulfuric acid (or recommend elemental sulfur) for blueberry plants. I've been using it for years and it's super useful to keep soil ph down. Better than anything else!
 
Anything good enough for electrolysis (Lead batteries functions as a kind of reversible electrolysis) will surpass any qualifications for food grade.
Reagent grade is even purer but way to expensive.

People tend to think food grade is clean and pure but for the most part its way poorer quality than anything used in medical or technical applications.

Think about Oxygen. Medical Oxygen seem to come across as pure and clean, but it may have too low purity to run an OxyAcetylen torch for welding properly and not even close to what may be needed for analytical purposes.
 
Reagent, or analytical grade is distilled in glass system so not containing heavy metals. Used battery acid contains lead
 
Man cannot breathe straight oxygen it would burn or destroy our lungs, welding oxygen is not as clean or purified welding oxygen is also too high of a concentration of oxygen for us to breathe safely, we normally breathe air that is about 78% nitrogen gas and 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.033% carbon monoxide, with traces of other gases such as sulfur dioxide, neon, helium, hydrogen, xenon, nitrogen dioxide, iodine, carbon monoxide ammonia...

Medical oxygen which requires a prescription to purchase as far as I understand is basically a highly purified clean and dry form of breathing gas or nitrogen with a higher oxygen content than the air we breathe normally.
from the composition of breathing air or oxygen bottled gas of around 78% nitrogen to 29.9% oxygen O2 to other compositions of medical oxygen or gas for breathing or medical treatments of other compositions for example 60% nitrogen and 40% oxygen, or mixtures of higher concentrations of oxygen along with the nitrogen gas.
 
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butcher said:
Man cannot breathe straight oxygen it would burn or destroy our lungs, welding oxygen is not as clean or purified welding oxygen is also too high of a concentration of oxygen for us to breathe safely, we normally breathe air that is about 78% nitrogen gas and 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.033% carbon monoxide, with traces of other gases such as sulfur dioxide, neon, helium, hydrogen, xenon, nitrogen dioxide, iodine, carbon monoxide ammonia...

Medical oxygen which requires a prescription to purchase as far as I understand is basically a highly purified clean and dry form of breathing gas or nitrogen with a higher oxygen content than the air we breathe normally.
from the composition of breathing air or oxygen bottled gas of around 78% nitrogen to 29.9% oxygen O2 to other compositions of medical oxygen or gas for breathing or medical treatments of other compositions for example 60% nitrogen and 40% oxygen, or mixtures of higher concentrations of oxygen along with the nitrogen gas.
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Not entirely true😏

But man can not breathe compressed pure oxygen if the pressure surpass appr 8m (25 ft) of water, it will then be toxic.
An oxygen generator produces 95 ish % Oxygen. This can be breathed directly and is also fine for soldering and light welding.
But for high power welding and cutting it is usually 99+ %
This concentration has no added benefits for medical use.
But I expect medical Oxygen have more paperwork and possibly certifications.
 
If your on the West coast try Metalex, located in Richmond B.C.. The company processes lead acid battery's for the lead, antimony, acid and plastic.

(604) 273-5487
 
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Wouldn't it be just safer to use vinegar? Use about an ounce per gallon of water every 2 weeks and you won't have to worry about the dangers of sulfuric acid.

Long term fix, the year before add a sulfur product to the soil and skip the vinegar water. Have your soil tested to assure you are doing this correctly. whatever state you are in has an extension of the state college system with certified master gardeners. Most counties. have a branch of the master gardeners that can help you.

Whoops, didn't notice you're in Canada. It's possible they have the equivalent service up there. If not PM me, I'm a master gardener in Wayne County PA and I can find you some resources.
 
Medical oxygen can be in high concentrations (almost pure) but medical oxygen as I understand it, is not normally administered in pure form, it is mixed with breathing air to lower the concentration of oxygen content delivered to the patient so as not to poison him or her.,

Breathing pure oxygen for us would be deadly.

Now for divers under atmospheric pressure and also under 25 feet of water pressure and of those with certain medical conditions, this may be different I cannot say, I have no diving or medical training.

For blueberries, I would look at using a salt of sulfuric (which the sulfuric would create with soils anyway) salts of sulfuric acid such as potassium sulfates or bisulfates for higher acidity...
 
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butcher said:
For blueberries, I would look at using a salt of sulfuric (which the sulfuric would create with soils anyway) salts of sulfuric acid such as potassium sulfates or bisulfates for higher acidity...
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Ammonium sulfate is the preferred sulfate for maintaining the pH blueberries love. In fact if you have Hydrangeas that are pink, make the soil acidic, with ammonium sulfate, and they flower in purple.

butcher said:
Now for divers under atmospheric pressure and also under 25 feet of water pressure and of those with certain medical conditions, this may be different I cannot say, I have no diving or medical training.
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Pure oxygen gets toxic for divers at about 20 feet. In fact when re-breathers were first used in WWII by divers they discovered, much to the dismay of the divers, that pure O2 is toxic and many early re-breather divers didn't come back. However when diving deep to shorten the decompression stops staged bottles of 50% oxygen 50% nitrogen can be used at about 50 feet and pure oxygen for the last deco stop at 10 feet.

Unique thread, it covers the three things I enjoy most in life, refining, scuba diving and gardening.
 
4metals said:
Ammonium sulfate is the preferred sulfate for maintaining the pH blueberries love. In fact if you have Hydrangeas that are pink, make the soil acidic, with ammonium sulfate, and they flower in purple.


Pure oxygen gets toxic for divers at about 20 feet. In fact when re-breathers were first used in WWII by divers they discovered, much to the dismay of the divers, that pure O2 is toxic and many early re-breather divers didn't come back. However when diving deep to shorten the decompression stops staged bottles of 50% oxygen 50% nitrogen can be used at about 50 feet and pure oxygen for the last deco stop at 10 feet.

Unique thread, it covers the three things I enjoy most in life, refining, scuba diving and gardening.
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You need certification to use Nitrox, at least here in Norway.
I think Padi has such training.
 
Yggdrasil said:
You need certification to use Nitrox, at least here in Norway.
I think Padi has such training.
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Yes you do here in the US as well. I've been a certified diver for 54 years now. When I started NAUI was the big certification agency and the certificate read Basic Scuba.

I've since graduated to advanced, rescue, nitrox, advanced nitrox, decompression diving, and trimix. Most of them from PADI which here we call Put Another Dollar In. It's deep decompression diving where staged decompression is important. But in reality it's the experience that matters the certifications just allow you to get the bottles filled. And just like refining, it's the experience that matters.
 
4metals said:
Yes you do here in the US as well. I've been a certified diver for 54 years now. When I started NAUI was the big certification agency and the certificate read Basic Scuba.

I've since graduated to advanced, rescue, nitrox, advanced nitrox, decompression diving, and trimix. Most of them from PADI which here we call Put Another Dollar In. It's deep decompression diving where staged decompression is important. But in reality it's the experience that matters the certifications just allow you to get the bottles filled. And just like refining, it's the experience that matters.
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As in life in general, you can fill your walls with plaques, but the experience is what makes the wheels go around.
 
Yggdrasil said:
Anything good enough for electrolysis (Lead batteries functions as a kind of reversible electrolysis) will surpass any qualifications for food grade.
Reagent grade is even purer but way to expensive.

People tend to think food grade is clean and pure but for the most part its way poorer quality than anything used in medical or technical applications.

Think about Oxygen. Medical Oxygen seem to come across as pure and clean, but it may have too low purity to run an OxyAcetylen torch for welding properly and not even close to what may be needed for analytical purposes.
Click to expand...

If that's the case, why does this ACS Grade bottle (https://www.carolina.com/images/product/large/893297.jpg) state "Not for Food or Drug Use"? I read online that Reagent Grade and ACS Grade are suitable for consumption, but why would it state that message on that bottle? Are you 200% confident that battery acid (something like this: https://fortnine.ca/en/yuasa-electrolyte-battery-acid-bottle) is safe for consumption? I see no one is challenging your post, so that's a good sign.
 
1sep1969 said:
I read online that Reagent Grade and ACS Grade are suitable for consumption, but why would it state that message on that bottle?
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Because most people would never consider consuming sulfuric acid. Even diluted. Sure it is used in foodstuffs but by companies with labs and proper procedures to assure the end product is fit for consumption. But the company puts a label like that on the bottle because it cannot control how someone uses it. So to cover their butt legally it’s a disclaimer to hold them harmless in the event of stupidity.

And to the same end a member like you whose first post clearly states;
1sep1969 said:
Just to let you know in advance, I'm an amateur, not into chemistry.
Click to expand...
We always advise members to take the safer route and asking someone here to advise you that they are 200% sure that battery acid is safe for consumption might influence you to do something you shouldn’t, and possibly be responsible if you do, is not advisable. You have been given a completely safe option and the proper dosage. If you choose, of your own free will, to use sulfuric acid don’t come crying to the forum when you hurt yourself.

I rescind my original offer, don’t PM me!
 
4metals said:
We always advise members to take the safer route and asking someone here to advise you that they are 200% sure that battery acid is safe for consumption might influence you to do something you shouldn’t, and possibly be responsible if you do, is not advisable. You have been given a completely safe option and the proper dosage. If you choose, of your own free will, to use sulfuric acid don’t come crying to the forum when you hurt yourself.
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Ok, I'll mention a few things. I have to water my potted blueberry plants with tap water (no I can't save rainwater) everyday during summer. Ammonium sulfate (1/2tsp per gallon every 2 weeks, no need to use more than that) is not enough to acidify the soil. Elemental sulfur is slow and you have to guess how much to put... Very slow. I know some people use vinegar, but I hadn't good success, and it doesn't neutralize the bicarbonates.

I've diluted battery acid in the past to safe concentration like the ph down they sell at pet stores, so yes, I would gather use that.
 
Grow the blueberries in a mix of quartz sand and peatmoss. Get a little soil from the edge of a bog if possible to introduce the crucial symbiotic fungi and microbes. Water with distilled water. Fertilize with little high-phosphate fertilizer in the spring before the buds begin to grow.

I'm from south-central NJ. Blueberries are everywhere here.
 

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