Titanium Cathode Marking for Wohlwill Process

[bluestar]

I attached some fun pictures.
Solution:
11.3 grams of 99%+ when into 50ml HCL and leached with 5 ml hno3 slowly added.
I have leached using 1.6 volts and no HNO3, but it's not worth it.
No additives

Anode was 99%+ gold

Ti cathode marked with a 50w CO2 laser. No really impressed with the result, but it was really easy.
Cathode cleaned with Bar Keepers Friend

Voltage floated from 0.25-0.3 at a constant 0.2 amps
Plates out at about 2.5-3 grams per amp hour.

 

[Palladium]

11.3 grams of 99%+ when into 50ml HCL and leached with 5 ml hno slowly added.
I have leached using 1.6 volts and no HNO, but it's not worth it.

The first one i take it to mean you used ar to make up the solution. Meaning hno3 ?
On the 2nd one do you mean you tried to make up the solution using electrolysis to put it into the solution without the addition of hno3 ?

 

[bluestar]

Yes, HNO3 (I edited the post). Yes, I use AR to get the gold into solution. I think the solution is just gold chloride because all the HNO3 is gone.

My first try I did not use any HNO3, only HCL. I had a Ti plate on the bottom for the anode with a pile of 14kt scrap on it. Very little gold made it to the Ti cathode on top. Most of the gold fell out at powder. So I recast it and it worked with fresh HCl. 2 Volts at first to get the gold oxidized into solution then I think I when down to 0.8 volts for refining. 0.8v is still too high. To be honest I don't know the correct voltage/current density. Lower is better and .25-.3 seems good. I have to get an assay.

BTW: It makes pretty layers of salts when you do this 14kt breakdown. See the picture.
Maybe the bottom is gold?
then zinc, dirty yellow
nickel, the green blob
titanium, lighter steel/grayer (this layer is hard to see)
then copper on top, blue

Again 14kt breakdown not worth it when you have HNO3 around.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

The wholwill cell is for high grade gold, I think that is why you are encountering so many issues. There are some electro cells that can break down karat scrap, but the wholwill is not one if them.

Assuming I am understanding you correctly. Initially you said 99% gold, then you say 14kt, so I am confused.
Unless you mean the electrolyte was made with fine gold, and the anode is 14k.

Maybe use a nitrate cell or fizzer cell, then with the product of those cast an anode and use it.

I could be wrong though, I have only read about wholwill cells, and have not had the luxury of running one yet.
Soon though!

 

[bluestar]

I have been using 99%+ for the anodes.

I just tried 14KT at first because I knew it would break down without HNO3, but I have never seen anyone post this.

 

[Shark]

The easiest way to help us understand would be to outline the whole process from the beginning. Give us as much detail as possible. And more pictures would help, I love pictures of refining. With all that said, I am interested in the process as well. I am always curious about refining, especially where cells are concerned. The more information you can give up front the fewer questions will be needed to understand later.

 

[Aurumlife]

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[Aurumlife]

Do refineries use titanium cathodes at all? I never heard or read about that. What they use is 999.9 fine gold sheets as I heard. After testing they melt it all together with the cathode for pouring bars, shot and sell it to the market. Maybe Im missing something, but it would involve extra labor to have to remove plated out gold from the cathode made of different materials and possibly contaminate the pure recovered gold with it. Its casted with cathodes all together leaving some material behind for new cathode forming and new batches of electrolyte. Correct me if I am missing anything, because that how I ran my gold cell. By the way it cleans the gold from contaminations like nothing else! Especially silver chloride.


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[Lou]

Usual practice is to use Gr 2 Ti for cathodes in a Wohlwill

 

[Aurumlife]

I should be doing one again soon. I’ll post some pictures with report.


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[jskeenickname]

I've been looking into setting up a wohlwill cell. So let me see if I have this correct;

Your working with 14k anode
HNO3
.25v .2a
Grade 2 Ti cathode

So how are you getting the plate off the Ti?

 

[Lino1406]

Assuming the coating is silver - nitric acid

 

[kadriver]

I set up a small Wohlwill cell and got a pretty good result I used four nines gold coin rolled very thin for cathode:

https://youtu.be/zDfujDqEPMo

 

[Aurumlife]

Very glad to be able to talk to you directly Kadriver. Big fan of yours, love your content. You practically became an incarnation of Hoke’s book. Very methodical stuff in all your videos. Your Wohlwill cell video put me to challenge actually to try to refine gold by means of electrolysis and not just wet chem. way. I used 1 gram/10 ml of gold in electrolyte. 7-10% free HCL. Cathode was 999.9 PAMP suisse bar flattened on rolling mill and it worked. I also have found fabulous theoretical materials on electrolytical metal refining from the Russian sources on metallurgy: books and articles. More detailed description then Hokes. Also on iridium and rhodium refining.

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[kadriver]

Very glad to be able to talk to you directly Kadriver. Big fan of yours, love your content. You practically became an incarnation of Hoke’s book. Very methodical stuff in all your videos. Your Wohlwill cell video put me to challenge actually to try to refine gold by means of electrolysis and not just wet chem. way. I used 1 gram/10 ml of gold in electrolyte. 7-10% free HCL. Cathode was 999.9 PAMP suisse bar flattened on rolling mill and it worked. I also have found fabulous theoretical materials on electrolytical metal refining from the Russian sources on metallurgy: books and articles. More detailed description then Hokes. Also on iridium and rhodium refining.

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That gold looks like the one I made - fantastic. Well done!

 

[Aurumlife]

Thank you very much for a compliment sir. I have a question: why did you decide to change the wire material on your anode bar for the silver cell (from silver to copper)? I saw the last video on silver cell on Youtube. Kind of puzzled me. I always thought that silver was better electrical conductor?


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[Yggdrasil]

Aurumlife.
This looks faboulous

These Russian sources, are they open,
or are they locked down in the meaning
you have to buy the publications?
And are they in English?

 

[g_axelsson]

Thank you very much for a compliment sir. I have a question: why did you decide to change the wire material on your anode bar for the silver cell (from silver to copper)? I saw the last video on silver cell on Youtube. Kind of puzzled me. I always thought that silver was better electrical conductor?

By welding a copper wire into a silver bar you eliminate a lot of contact resistance and insecure connection points that were the issue with his first cell. At the current levels he is using at just an ampere or two the voltage loss in the wire is negligible. And you could always make the copper wire a bit thicker, it's still a lot cheaper than a wire made from silver.

Göran

 

[Palladium]

Personally i switched to copper because i got tired of pouring anode bars with a spur and then when the spur got short you had to remelt all the unused spurs to make another one or make another one and let the left over spur be consumed. I just pour a bar and drill a hole a little bit smaller than the wire so you force fit it. By doing that i can run the bar all the way down nearly dissolving the last part. The solution will get changed anyways so i don't worry about the little bit of copper it dissolves.

Plus even if you use a silver wire to connect it unless it runs all the way to the lugs on the transformer you will still have resistance from the copper wires that connect it to the silver wire. Remember just because the last 6 inches is silver...... it's still connected by a copper wire to the lugs.

 

[Palladium]

And another reason is because the alligator clips will corrode pretty fast and cause a weak contact where it clips on at. Got tired of fiddling with the bad connections and buying clips. This way just seems simpler to me production wise.