Froth flotation process

[sayf]

Hello i have 200kg catalytic converter powder which reading 50 ppm Rh and 70 ppm Pt , i wish to concentrate the powder using froth flotation mechanism, is it possible this way ?

If yes, can you please provide me with some tips , i already have the recuired flotation materials in my inventory such as SEX, SIPX, Na2S, CS2، CuSO4, lime....etc

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello i have 200kg catalytic converter powder which reading 50 ppm Rh and 70 ppm Pt , i wish to concentrate the powder using froth flotation mechanism, is it possible this way ?

If yes, can you please provide me with some tips , i already have the recuired flotation materials in my inventory such as SEX, SIPX, Na2S, CS2، CuSO4, lime....etc

I can’t say for sure, but I doubt it.
If it worked like this I’d guess the big boys might use it.
What is the floatation agent going to adhere to?
All ceramic particles could also contain PGMs.
Usually the floatation agents are designed to bind to Sulfides or similar.
I think it might be better with smelting.
Read Orvi’s posts on it.

 

[sayf]

I can’t say for sure, but I doubt it.
If it worked like this I’d guess the big boys might use it.
What is the floatation agent going to adhere to?
All ceramic particles could also contain PGMs.
Usually the floatation agents are designed to bind to Sulfides or similar.
I think it might be better with smelting.
Read Orvi’s posts on it.

I think the flotation works also for oxides , and catalytic converters are like oxide ores but in case of oxides activators such as Na2S and CuSO4 are needed
But am sure that am missing something here , and am digging for further knowledge about this technique, in general the flotation recovery rate is not more than 85% i think its a reason for not using this method by big guys maybe ??

I can’t say for sure, but I doubt it.
If it worked like this I’d guess the big boys might use it.
What is the floatation agent going to adhere to?
All ceramic particles could also contain PGMs.
Usually the floatation agents are designed to bind to Sulfides or similar.
I think it might be better with smelting.
Read Orvi’s posts on it.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I think the flotation works also for oxides , and catalytic converters are like oxide ores but in case of oxides activators such as Na2S and CuSO4 are needed
But am sure that am missing something here , and am digging for further knowledge about this technique, in general the flotation recovery rate is not more than 85% i think its a reason for not using this method by big guys maybe ??

Yes, but the float process is to separate into barren and rich, but in this it is already almost homogeneously.
So what is going to be the key difference to drive separation.
I believe you are overthinking this.

 

[Deano]

A quick simple test for the possible concentration of heavy ore fractions by flotation is to do your milling and then very gently pan the milled material.
In the case of catalytic converters you will find that very little, if any, upgrade of values occurs.
A lot of effort has gone into getting the metals to adhere strongly to the converter matrix, there will not be a substantial release of these metals by a simple milling of the converters.
If there is no release of the metals there can be no separation by flotation.
Deano

 

[Lino1406]

To get separation by flotation, metals should be in metallic state, not in sponge or oxide state, where the distinction between hydrophilic and hydrophobic surfaces is too poor I assume also sulfidization will not produce enough distinction in this case

 

[PGMMEX]

Hola, tengo 200 kg de polvo convertidor catalítico que lee 50 ppm Rh y 70 ppm Pt, deseo concentrar el polvo usando un mecanismo de flotación de espuma, ¿es posible de esta manera?

En caso afirmativo, ¿puede darme algunos consejos? Ya tengo los materiales de flotación requeridos en mi inventario, como SEX, SIPX, Na2S, CS2, CuSO4, cal...

 

[Yggdrasil]

La lixiviación con agua regia o HCl/NaClO es factible.

English please, and he is asking on flotation not dissolving.

 

[sayf]

A quick simple test for the possible concentration of heavy ore fractions by flotation is to do your milling and then very gently pan the milled material.
In the case of catalytic converters you will find that very little, if any, upgrade of values occurs.
A lot of effort has gone into getting the metals to adhere strongly to the converter matrix, there will not be a substantial release of these metals by a simple milling of the converters.
If there is no release of the metals there can be no separation by flotation.
Deano

To get separation by flotation, metals should be in metallic state, not in sponge or oxide state, where the distinction between hydrophilic and hydrophobic surfaces is too poor I assume also sulfidization will not produce enough distinction in this case

Ill try and post the result here lino
PGM in catalytic converters can be in oxidized state , in which can be turned to metal again by temperature

 

[sayf]

A quick simple test for the possible concentration of heavy ore fractions by flotation is to do your milling and then very gently pan the milled material.
In the case of catalytic converters you will find that very little, if any, upgrade of values occurs.
A lot of effort has gone into getting the metals to adhere strongly to the converter matrix, there will not be a substantial release of these metals by a simple milling of the converters.
If there is no release of the metals there can be no separation by flotation.
Deano

So a super fine milling is required which is not possible now for me , i thought about fusing the powder with sodium bisulfate then simply leaching the metals with diluted hcl
But i think that will need huge amount of sodium bisulfate and HCL and will leave alot of waste , so i thought about the flotation process

 

[Lino1406]

Ill try and post the result here lino
PGM in catalytic converters can be in oxidized state , in which can be turned to metal again by temperature

I would not do that for less than 1000ppm

 

[sayf]

I would not do that for less than 1000ppm

Then how can i make use of this powder, the amount i have is up to 30 tons now and it needs to be concentrated ,

 

[Yggdrasil]

Smelting is probably your only option, if you try to sell there will be all kinds of questions on where it comes from.
Maybe not in Egypt though.
Is this powder already leached one time?

 

[sayf]

Smelting is probably your only option, if you try to sell there will be all kinds of questions on where it comes from.
Maybe not in Egypt though.
Is this powder already leached one time?

Yes its already leached, i think the remaining pgms are oxides.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Probably not, just out of reach for the acids.
Did you leach them?

 

[sayf]

Probably not, just out of reach for the acids.
Did you leach them

Probably not, just out of reach for the acids.
Did you leach them?

With direct chemical leaching i could only get about 70% of the pgm given that the leaching conditions were optimum , PGMs can be oxidized because of the harsh conditions inside the catalytic converter and oxides of pd, pt, Rh are resistive to leaching , after roasting the powder at 900+ degrees where the oxides turn back to metals i got a leaching percentage up to 95% .

 

[Yggdrasil]

With direct chemical leaching i could only get about 70% of the pgm given that the leaching conditions were optimum , PGMs can be oxidized because of the harsh conditions inside the catalytic converter and oxides of pd, pt, Rh are resistive to leaching , after roasting the powder at 900+ degrees where the oxides turn back to metals i got a leaching percentage up to 95% .

That concerns Pd only.
With smelting you can come close to 100% on all and with way less waste.
Read Orvi's posts on it.

 

[sayf]

The powder i got is not leached by me , the ton of this powder gives about 50 grams of Rh and 70 grams of Pt , i think smelting 30 tons for such a low amount of PGMs will be costy and will take huge time and efforts , i dont have big furnaces like big guys
So am trying to make use of this powder as much as possible
If i only can concentrate it to 10% of its original weight then i win .

 

[Yggdrasil]

The powder i got is not leached by me , the ton of this powder gives about 50 grams of Rh and 70 grams of Pt , i think smelting 30 tons for such a low amount of PGMs will be costy and will take huge time and efforts , i dont have big furnaces like big guys
So am trying to make use of this powder as much as possible
If i only can concentrate it to 10% of its original weight then i win .

Sadly I do not think it is possible.
The remaining metal particles are more or less embedded in the grains and will most likely just make out fractions of each individual grain.
There might not be enough for the floatation agent to grab on to, if you can find an agent that binds to either Pt or Rh.
Maybe pressure leaching with Chlorine gas could extract more, but equipment for this would probably cost significantly more,
than building a big furnace.

At least you could experiment with a smaller furnace if you already have the powder?

 

[sayf]

Sadly I do not think it is possible.
The remaining metal particles are more or less embedded in the grains and will most likely just make out fractions of each individual grain.
There might not be enough for the floatation agent to grab on to, if you can find an agent that binds to either Pt or Rh.
Maybe pressure leaching with Chlorine gas could extract more, but equipment for this would probably cost significantly more,
than building a big furnace.

At least you could experiment with a smaller furnace if you already have the powder?

I fused the powder with sodium bisulfate at 500 Celsius for 30 minutes and could successfully leach 90%+ of the value with diluted HCL within 20 minutes
But heck it needs a sodium bisulfate to powder ratio of 2.5 to 1
So a total of 75 tons of sodium bisulfate