# What is the White mud at bottom of AR solution



## goldenye (Jun 2, 2012)

there is a mysterious white residue at bottom of mix
i mixed some ar using the 1:3 ratio.
i put in a gold filled chain to test it out.
it dissolved and now the AR is Dark Green
and i am also left with some white mud at the bottom.

i want to know what the mud is and if it will effect my further steps of adding SMB
i already urinated in the solution to neutralize the nitric acid.
are there any precautions i should take before adding the SMB to drop the gold?

Thanks for your time

So does anyone know if the white mud is gold or if its another substance that should be filtered out.
also is it valuable or not?


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## jimdoc (Jun 2, 2012)

goldenye said:


> i already urinated in the solution to neutralize the nitric acid.



Where did you learn that trick?

Jim


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## goldenye (Jun 2, 2012)

jimdoc said:


> goldenye said:
> 
> 
> > i already urinated in the solution to neutralize the nitric acid.
> ...



well i know urine has urea in it. i learned that in school. i checked online if it would work and found a couple sites where it was also mentioned so i tried it. however it didnt fizz very much


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## Anonymous (Jun 2, 2012)

goldenye said:


> i already urinated in the solution to neutralize the nitric acid.


Oh My God almighty.(Hard Facepalm!)


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## ericrm (Jun 2, 2012)

how much urea is in my pee??


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## goldenye (Jun 2, 2012)

ericrm said:


> how much urea is in my pee??



well the site i saw it on estimates about 1 gram of urea for 110 mL of urine


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## ericrm (Jun 2, 2012)

well that will take a lot of pee to neutralize i think, maybe if you conserve it and boil it off. you will be able to do something
keep us in touch with your progress 8)


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## Geo (Jun 2, 2012)

back to your solution. sounds to me like the base metal of the chain was tin. the white mud sounds like stannic acid.


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## ericrm (Jun 2, 2012)

sorry geo guess your right we where going far from the point :lol: 
im not realy used to gold filled but could it simply be silver from the gold aloy?


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## goldenye (Jun 2, 2012)

ericrm said:


> well that will take a lot of pee to neutralize i think, maybe if you conserve it and boil it off. you will be able to do something
> keep us in touch with your progress 8)



well i dont know about boiling my urine but you could always try it n let me know how it goes.



Geo said:


> back to your solution. sounds to me like the base metal of the chain was tin. the white mud sounds like stannic acid.





ericrm said:


> sorry geo guess your right we where going far from the point :lol:
> im not realy used to gold filled but could it simply be silver from the gold aloy?



the central core looks brown like copper
i guess if it is tin acid i should filter it off and throw it out?
is it possible that it could be some form of silver?
how would i test this?


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## ericrm (Jun 2, 2012)

there is few test you can try ,filter the white stuff out and try to dissolve it in hot water, if it work it is not silver chloride
if it is neither gold or silver i dont think you have to keep it


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## Geo (Jun 2, 2012)

silver chloride tends to be lumpy and sort of clumps together. when you said white mud, stannic acid is a sticky white gelatinous mass. some gold fill has tin in the soldered joints. tin in nitric solutions is very difficult to filter. let every thing settle, then filter the clear liquid off the top first. when you get to the mud, move to another receiving vessel and add all the material to the filter and set this aside to filter in its own time. test the filtered solution for the presence of PM's and precipitate as required.


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## goldenye (Jun 2, 2012)

Geo said:


> silver chloride tends to be lumpy and sort of clumps together. when you said white mud, stannic acid is a sticky white gelatinous mass. some gold fill has tin in the soldered joints. tin in nitric solutions is very difficult to filter. let every thing settle, then filter the clear liquid off the top first. when you get to the mud, move to another receiving vessel and add all the material to the filter and set this aside to filter in its own time. test the filtered solution for the presence of PM's and precipitate as required.



if it does turn out to be stannic acid , would it be possible to turn it into stannous cloride SnCl2 simply by adding HCl?
im going to filter it off in the morning when i buy a brand new turkey baster to siphon off the emerald liquid


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## adam_mizer (Jun 2, 2012)

It sounds like the white powder I have been playing with for the last week, and another time about a month ago.

From all my residues from many many pounds of gold filled.
I thought maybe silve chloride and processed in naoh and sugar. It turned black. Washed rinsed and processed again in AR.
Carefully keep removing the green liquid.
From this residual I have already pulled out 12 grams of gold, and lots of silver and a little platinum.
Still has some silver in it.
I have processed this stuff at least 6 times and still am removing precious metals.
Think Geo's got it with the tin. 
I can see now why its important to process out the tin in the beginning. 
Its very hard to get the PM's out of the stuff and appears it will need to be processed many times.

The white powder does not go into HCL, HCL/CL, hot water or boiling water, nitric or AR.

John


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## adam_mizer (Jun 3, 2012)

Here's a picture of my white mud.
Hope you don't mind me getting into your chat Goldenye.

Have been siphoning off with a 5ml plastic eye dropper.
Because there is over 100ml of thick white sponge, I would like to convert this sponge to melt it.
Have not been able to get this white powder to go into solution.

There's my last siphon off, the dark beaker is the one I'm evaporating.
After rinsing this (get all the green out), will process one more time for silver.

Any suggestions?

John


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## goldenye (Jun 3, 2012)

adam_mizer said:


> Here's a picture of my white mud.
> Hope you don't mind me getting into your chat Goldenye.
> 
> Have been siphoning off with a 5ml plastic eye dropper.
> ...




ye that definately looks like my white stuff. with the 2 viddible layers in it as well.



also i noticed gold flakes floating in the solution now that i didnt notice earlier. does this effect my process?


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## qst42know (Jun 5, 2012)

Depending on which of those solutions is your pee you may need to see a Doctor real fast. :shock: :lol: 

I have encountered a great deal of gold filled over silver. Much of the gold can be recovered with AR if you keep it hot and with little or no water, but some will always report in the silver chloride and the indigestible pieces, pretty much unavoidable if using AR on gold filled. Convert with lye melt and save it for the silver cell.


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## adam_mizer (Jun 9, 2012)

I took some of the very fine blast white mud and dried it.

Looked for pictures and descriptions at wikipedia.
Came up with this for a color match: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_chromate ,not stating this is/is not what the powder is made of.
Either way you look at it, the mud is here because it was not removed in the first steps of processing when it should have been.
The mud then built up in the stock pot.
Although I got most of my PM's out this mud made the job much more tedious.
Also I believe leaving these metals in the process at the start, they drag and hold PM's during the rinse outs processing gold filled.


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## qst42know (Jun 9, 2012)

Lead in gold filled I can see but where would the chrome come from to make a chromate?

If it was silver chloride as it looked like to me, drying it was a mistake.


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## lazersteve (Jun 9, 2012)

Could be copper I chloride which sometimes appears as a off-white/tan powder. 

Does a sample of it dissolve in HCl?

Steve


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## adam_mizer (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm sorry, should have stated several pounds of silver jewelry was processed also, the residuals went into the same stock pot.
Thinking some chrome was on the silver jewelry maybe?


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## adam_mizer (Jun 21, 2012)

Just wanted to add:

The white mud I had was dried and melted.
When dried this large amount was grey color, don't know how I got the yellow color.
This grey powder was then torched a little at a time at super high temps.
While melting at first it spattered and popped and wasted some powder, then as I got the mass red hot lower temp metals were burning off in colored smoke/fumes. Estimating I got my torch to 2500-3100f degrees.
Do not recommend this to anyone as this spells unsafe for human breathing, care must be taken.
After the smoke and fumes and turning up the torch several notches, metal was forming.
This metal was gathered from several melts and got 1 ounce silvery type metal and has grey oxide coat.
It was soft and plyable meaning I could hit it with a hammer and flatten it.
Put in AR I got a small reaction and again got white powder after settling.
Put in nitric no reaction.
Put in water and the water started to turn deep grey violet sort of.
Removed the remainder of metals rinsed and washed and put away.

They are secondary or transitional metal.
Behaves like yitrium by text book definition but I'm not experienced enough to state what it is.


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