# Does the AP solution have gold in it.



## mu50stang (Oct 27, 2008)

Does the AP solution have gold in it that can't be seen and if it does how do you get it out after you filter it.


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## Anonymous (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm no expert but from what I have read on the forum your AP can dissolve gold if you are using high strength (above 3%) hydrogen peroxide.
If you intend to reuse the AP the dissolved gold will precipitate because of the introduction of copper during future use, reuse by bubbling air through the solution whilst stripping future batches of fingers or pins.
If you dont intend on reusing your AP drop the values by cementing with copper or SMB, then process the precipitate with AC or AR


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## butcher (Oct 28, 2008)

very good Marty


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## Anonymous (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks for your comment Butcher, as a newbie (eventhough I've been on the forum over a year now) it is encouraging to have your thoughts confirmed by one of the gurus on the forum.


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## mu50stang (Oct 28, 2008)

so to get the gold out of the solution i can add soduim metabisulfite to it and then use the ap process on it.


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## Anonymous (Oct 28, 2008)

Yes you can use SMB to precipitate any gold in your solution, then use the AC or AR process to refind the precipitate not the AP process as you stated, AP is used to strip gold plating not as a method of refining


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## mu50stang (Oct 28, 2008)

i watched the smb video but it ends where you end up with brown powder at the bottom. Whats the next step.


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## lazersteve (Oct 28, 2008)

Here's a link to the rest of the process...

Gold Cleanup Process


Steve


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## Anonymous (Oct 28, 2008)

If you have used SMB on the AP solution your precipitated gold will be contaminated with copper from the copper chloride in the solution.
You will need to re dissolve the precipitate with AC or AR and precipitate it again using SMB, you could dissolve your foils along with this ( the purity of the precipitate will be improved on the second precipitation because it will be precipitated from a cleaner solution) and then proceed to melting into shot or button.


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## mu50stang (Nov 1, 2008)

If i add smb to my ap, how can I see the brown settle to the bottom. The liquid is a dark green color. What do I do to get the precipitate out of it.


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## Noxx (Nov 1, 2008)

Simply decant your solution.


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## mu50stang (Nov 3, 2008)

What do you mean by decant


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## LeftyTheBandit (Nov 3, 2008)

He mean's pour it out as carefully as you can so the brown powder will not pour out. The brown powder is gold.

Siphoning the AP may be preferable. Just remove as much of the liquid as possible without disturbing the powder on the bottom.

lasersteve has placed a link a few posts back that has the entire process documented step by step.


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## mu50stang (Nov 3, 2008)

After you precipitate and pour off the excess how do you get just the brown stuff to dry to a powder.


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## Harold_V (Nov 3, 2008)

mu50stang said:


> After you precipitate and pour off the excess how do you get just the brown stuff to dry to a powder.


You don't. The next step would be to rinse with water, then follow a strict washing procedure (using HCl), which will remove the included traces of base metals. Failure to follow this advice is a guarantee of poor quality gold. 

Wise people don't try to handle the precipitated gold until it has been thoroughly washed, including a wash in ammonium hydroxide. It makes NO sense to filter this material---it's nothing more than a perfect opportunity to tie up your gold in a filter. 

After final rinsing, the container is then heated at a low heat until residual water is expelled, then the temperature raised, which will also expel traces of acids. 

Gold, properly washed, and of good quality, will then clump together well. 

Before you jump in with both feet, explore the washing procedure, which has been well documented on the forum. 

Be advised that the drying process can be the source of lost gold----it you do not follow good policy. As the gold powder dries, it forms steam pockets underneath. The steam escapes violently (popping), throwing gold out of the container. You can avoid the problem by swirling the gold powder around in the beaker as it dries. Once the free water has been expelled, popping is no longer a threat. 

Harold


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## lazersteve (Nov 3, 2008)

Gold powder from AP is notoriously dirty and hard to handle.

After settling and siphoning off the bulk of the AP solution from the gold powder, transfer the gold into a smaller beaker and redissolve with HCl-Cl or AR and proceed as usual.

Be sure to follow Harolds washing procedure listed above on the second precipitation of the gold.

Steve


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## skykinghunter (Nov 8, 2008)

marty said:


> Yes you can use SMB to precipitate any gold in your solution, then use the AC or AR process to refind the precipitate not the AP process as you stated, AP is used to strip gold plating not as a method of refining


I am a newbie...this is my first post:
Can anyone explain the best process to convert from 14 karat gold to 24 karat gold?
:?:


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## Anonymous (Nov 8, 2008)

Welcome to the forum Skykinghunter.

I'm still fairly new to all of this refining, but by reading through the postings on the forum I have managed to gather an understanding of it.
Download yourself a copy of Hoke's book and read it until it makes sense.

To answer the question you posed you will need to inquart your gold. 14K is 58% pure gold, by additions of silver you need to lower the % of pure gold to below 25%, by melting your 14K and silver together, shotting, then dissolving in Nitric acid. The undissolved residue is your gold.

This doesn't cover the whole process, you will need to dissolve this residue in either AC or AR, precipitate it and wash it before melting it into a button or shot.

Harold is the man that can explain this process, he did this for his living. You can search through Harolds posts for his explanation of the process or use the search function for Inquartation, although I'm sure Harold will see and respond to your question


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## Harold_V (Nov 8, 2008)

Your advice is right on the money, marty, but I'd caution the reader to exercise care to not go too far below 25% gold content in inquartation. This is a case where more is definitely not in your best interest. 

The reason you try for 25%, which is somewhat flexible, is to prevent the gold from disintegrating as the base metals and silver are dissolved in dilute nitric acid. By staying close to the 25%, the gold will hold its form, yet be honeycombed such that the nitric will fully penetrate without causing the gold to crumble. That's the best of all worlds for the refiner, particularly if one is against the clock and doesn't have time to wait for solids to settle before decanting. 

The advice to read Hoke is the best that can be offered. Even if you pursue other avenues in processing, by having a firm understanding of the basic process, you're able to make informed decisions about questions pertaining to refining. I can think of no better source than Hoke. That may not be true for one well advanced in chemistry and refining procedures, but for the novice, her book has no equal. 

Harold


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## skykinghunter (Nov 9, 2008)

marty said:


> Welcome to the forum Skykinghunter.
> 
> I'm still fairly new to all of this refining, but by reading through the postings on the forum I have managed to gather an understanding of it.
> Download yourself a copy of Hoke's book and read it until it makes sense.
> ...


Marty,
Thank you for the prompt response.
I am very impressed with this forum and there members.
I guess that I'll need to buy some sort of melting aparatus.


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## skykinghunter (Nov 9, 2008)

Harold_V said:


> Your advice is right on the money, marty, but I'd caution the reader to exercise care to not go too far below 25% gold content in inquartation. This is a case where more is definitely not in your best interest.
> 
> The reason you try for 25%, which is somewhat flexible, is to prevent the gold from disintegrating as the base metals and silver are dissolved in dilute nitric acid. By staying close to the 25%, the gold will hold its form, yet be honeycombed such that the nitric will fully penetrate without causing the gold to crumble. That's the best of all worlds for the refiner, particularly if one is against the clock and doesn't have time to wait for solids to settle before decanting.
> 
> ...


Harold,
You guys are great!
I'll take up on your advice to acquire the Hoke's book.
I better start refining some Au to pay for it!
Thank you


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## Anonymous (Nov 9, 2008)

You don't need to buy Hoke's book, download it from the link below

http://tinyurl.com/hokesbook


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## skykinghunter (Nov 10, 2008)

marty said:


> You don't need to buy Hoke's book, download it from the link below
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/hokesbook


Marty,
The link to tinyurl does not appear to be working.
Any suggestions?
Thank you,
Skykinghunter


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2008)

erm...... I'm having problems with that link as well although I have used it successfully in the past. You could drop me a PM with your email address and I'll put Hoke's book on an attachment for you


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## jimdoc (Nov 11, 2008)

Zonealarm spyblocker blocks every tinyurl link when I try,
I think it has to do with the link being altered from the original.
If the link shows the correct web address it works. Somewhere 
on the forum there is a Hokes book link that worked for me.
Jim


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