# Making copperas



## glondor (Apr 25, 2012)

Hey all. I want to start making my own precipitant for gold. I understand from Butcher copperas is easy to make. My question is about the Iron needed. I would like to use something standard and repeatable. Would common Iron nails from the hardware store work? What would you recommend as an easy to get and reliable Iron source. Just plain common ordinary non coated nails. If so, how much acid to iron should I use for 2 pounds of nails. How long does it take to make? Would heat speed it up? How much copperas would I get from this? It should be stored in dilute sulfuric (covered) correct? Cheers Thanks.


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## Palladium (Apr 25, 2012)

Welcome to the forum glondor. Hoke is available as a free download in my sig link. Also note the search box in the top corner. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 

I'm just messing with you man. :mrgreen: 
I've heard them mention the steel from transformers before but not sure about the nails. It is a good question though. I haven't used any yet i'm still learning the smb route. It does come in handy for testing. Someone should do a good vid or pdf on it.


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## glondor (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks Palladium....... I did not see the search box. hehehehe. The real question I guess has to do with the quality of iron and what qualifies. Iron is everywhere as well as steel, but what is a common easy to get type that works well??? I hope it is something as simple as common nails but some how I doubt it. 8) its most likely brake drums or truck axles or train wheels, maybe horse shoes......


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## maynman1751 (Apr 25, 2012)

I don't think that nails would work correctly. I have always used the iron laminates out of transformers. I believe you need low carbon. If you have some cpu power supplies you could use the transformers out of those or even laminates out of an electric motor. You're best talking to Butcher on this one.....he seems to be the pro!


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## glondor (Apr 25, 2012)

Yes I think low carbon is the key. What would be a good common source? Chain?


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## Lobby (Apr 25, 2012)

Sheesh, Glonder. Why go thru all the bother?

Want me to get some for you next time I'm at the garden store?

:mrgreen:


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## glondor (Apr 25, 2012)

Well.... I imagine the stuff at the garden store.....by not being stored in dilute sulfuric acid....may be a bit brown...Just saying.....not all copperas is copperas. 8)


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## Lobby (Apr 25, 2012)

I've had great luck with the copperas I've bought. Heck, even some off eBay was good. In fact I've had better luck with copperas than with SMB. 

Positives with copperas vs SMB:

- cleaner drops

- no SO2 stink

- Pt that you can drop with copper after you've done the gold drop

Negatives:

- all that blasted water you need to dissolve the copperas (not to mention filtering the solution before dumping it into the gold chloride)

- the iron sulfate makes a mess during waste treatment.


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## publius (Apr 25, 2012)

I have an old cast iron frying pan that I use to convert AgCl using dilute H2SO4. The result id a dilute Copperas that I filter and crystallize. Eventually its bottom will fall out, but not before I get a 1000 ozT out of it.


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## butcher (Apr 25, 2012)

I could not find good copperas as my garden supply stores, the copperas came in bags and was always oxidized brown (which would not work to test for, or to precipitate gold with).

Copperas is easy for me to make, and when I do I make a big batch to last me for a while.

The iron core of the transformers is a good source of iron (not steel although, steel does have iron in it I would not use it). Pure soft iron is rare, steel is very common, steel can be a mixture of metals, it may work I do not know, transformers are also a good source for copper for your scrap metal bin, the Iron laminates are usually welded, you can grind off the welds with an angle grinder or similar tool and separate the laminates, they usually have a light coating of shellac so, heat them with a torch to burn this off, I cut mine up for faster reaction in the acid, I wash them with water just prior to using (so they do not rust), electric motor's also has an iron core's (not the steel shell case of the motor, these can be used but are a little more trouble to separate, I use a chop saw to cut these.

Copperas is also called Iron II sulfate, green vitriol, ferrous sulfate, or FeSO4.

Dilute sulfuric acid is used, about 10% acid, so if your using new battery acid (about 32%), add about twice your acids volume with water, it is not terribly critical but shoot for 10% acid, heating speeds the reaction, so I heat these add as much iron to your acid as you like, and make as much as copperas you want, the excess un-dissolved iron can be removed later, heat also saturates the acid with the metal, when solution begins to concentrate a nice green color I filter solution, into a jar, the heating vessel is cleaned out and the solution returned to the hotplate to concentrate to crystals, the solution can be used to precipitate gold But I make the crystals, as they begin to crystallize a fair amount while evaporating the solution I remove them from my vessel, and return the liquid to the evaporating pot, these light green crystals I store slightly damp, storing them acidic also helps so a couple of drops of sulfuric acid is added to the plastic storage jar, with a good tight sealing lid these will stay fresh until you wish to use them.


Fe + H2SO4 --> FeSO4 + H2 

Beside precipitating gold, copperas crystals are also good to test for gold in a spot plate, (the brown gold precipitant as an indicator of a positive for gold in solution, they are also good to use in a test for PGMs when gold in solution may change the colors, here gold can be precipitated out in the spot plate on a crystal of copperas, the remaining liquid moved to another spot and retested for PGM, (this is a trick Harold has shared and he explains it better than I can.


I also use the bisulfate salts (the byproduct from making nitric acid), the bisulfate salts react in solutions like sulfuric acid, so we can used the acid potassium bisulfate with water and iron to make copperas crystals.

KHSO4 + Fe + H2O --> FeSO4 + K2SO4 + H2O + H+(g)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(II)_sulfate

For what ever reason, this link does not work, as it drops the last part (note it is in black text). Cut and paste if you wish to see the page. 
Harold


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## maynman1751 (Apr 25, 2012)

> Ferrous Sulphate will drop out everything in solution that is lower on the reactivity series, than Iron, ferrous sulphate is really iron. As gold is lower on the reactivity series table, it will precipitate out Au, but also everything else under Fe



Is this a true (accurate) statement? I didn't think so. Butcher, are you out there?!!!!


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## butcher (Apr 25, 2012)

Ferrous sulfate is made from iron, but it is no longer iron metal, iron metal has spare electrons to share, the iron in ferrous sulfate is an ion and already given up its electrons, so it will not act the same in solution as the iron metal would, I have to say the statement is false, platinum is under iron in the reactivity series and ferrous sulfate will not precipitate platinum from the gold solution (but elemental iron would).


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## glondor (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks for the tutorial Butcher. I will save up some transformers and give it a go. Your information as always is much appreciated. If I don't find any transformers soon I will try some chain and let you know how it goes. Cheers.


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## Harold_V (Apr 26, 2012)

As a matter of convenience, you most likely would achieve success by dissolving structural shapes. They are intended to be welded, so they should not contain trace elements that can be harmful. However, even if they do, it is generally in a very small percentage (much of the structural steel, today, is remelt), so if you don't use the solution directly, contaminants will be excluded when the ferrous sulfate crystals grow. That's the nature of the process, whereby if you grow and redissolve the crystals more than once, you can achieve, for all practical purposes, pure iron (as ferrous sulfate). 

If you elect to dissolve *anything* (including laminations, which are made of carbon free iron), I do suggest you filter the resulting solution prior to allowing crystals to develop. Otherwise you risk including contaminants. Carbon, for example, won't be dissolved, and will report in your crystals unless it is filtered from the solution. That can be a problem even with laminations, assuming they are incinerated to remove lacquer. 

Harold


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## Alentia (Dec 10, 2012)

Butcher, Harold,

If I use structural steel/Iron to make copperas, would traces of other metals precipitate during structural steel dissolution in H2SO4 and can be separated by filtering?

What other traces may still be dissolved/remain in the solution making coppers "dirty" when made out of structural steel?


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## butcher (Dec 10, 2012)

Alentia,
My suggestion just use transformers they are easy to find and readily available and the close to pure iron,

Steel although it is high in iron, but is not just iron; steel as I understand, is just a name for a metal of iron that has been changed chemically to produce a stronger metal, or a metal of different properties than pure iron.

Steel can be many forms mostly iron but can also have other metals, or other elements involved, like carbon, it can also have silicon, phosphorous, or metals like nickel, chromium, vanadium, manganese, molybdenum, tungsten, cobalt, possibly other things, some of these may be insoluble in dilute sulfuric, but some are not, and may react with undesired results in our refining of our gold.

The more pure Iron is not used much nowadays as it was back in history or in the days of blacksmithing to make tools, pure Iron is very soft (softer than aluminum), The steels we use today are made to give strength or other useful properties to the iron in them.

Transformer or motor Laminates (the soft iron sheets) are very close to pure soft iron, transformers are very easy to find, I would use them to make your ferrous sulfate.

When doing blacksmithing I look for iron to make things out of, like old iron from things made by a blacksmith before modern steel, or horse shoes, railroad spikes, wrought iron, and other things with properties closer to iron than steel, I know how these work when blacksmithing, but I do not know how they would work to make ferrous sulfate to precipitate gold.

I really do not know how well steel would work to make ferrous sulfate (copperas) to precipitate gold, it would make a ferrous sulfate and could be filtered and recrystalized to a higher purity, but I do not know if some of the other more reactive metals would be involved when you made the crystals.


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## Alentia (Dec 10, 2012)

Ok, Structural steel is coded 1080

Following is the composition:
Note on Lead (Pb), Copper (Cu), Boron (B) content:
'L', 'C', or 'B' may be present between the second and third digits of the SAE/AISI number (IE, 12L14) to indicate the presence of Lead (0.15-0.35), Copper (0.20 min), or Boron (0.0005-0.003).
P and S are maximum values, unless a range of values is specified.
P = phosphorous, C = carbon, Mn = manganese, S = sulfur. All values are percentages.

AISI
SAE - 1080
UNS - G10800 
C - 0.75-0.88	
Mn - 0.60-0.90	
P - 0.040
S - 0.050

Lead will enter the reaction creating Lead Sulfate as precipitant
Copper will be precipitated by Iron
Carbon should be as precipitant
Mn will dissolve:
Mn(s) + H2SO4(aq) → Mn2+(aq) + SO42-(aq) + H2(g)
S will exist as gas
S + 2H2SO4 ------> 3SO2 + 2H2O
P will remain in the solution as Phosphoric acid [H3PO4]
20 P + 40 H2SO4 = 20 H3PO4 + H20 + 40 SO2
Reacting with Fe we get Ferrous Phosphate as precipitate
Fe + H3PO4 = Fe3(PO4)2 + H2
B will not react with H2SO4 unless it is really hot

This will only leave us with Mn in the solution of 0.6-0.9% to create Copperas.

Are there any negative effects to have Mn mixed in crystals for gold precipitation?
I wonder how visible are Mn particles when Mn2(aq) dries out?
Will Mn form something else in the reaction of multiple elements present? 
Can Mn be simply sifted through the mesh?


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## butcher (Dec 11, 2012)

Alentia, 
Thanks, Nice work,

I would think since you will have acidic solution left as you crystallize the ferrous sulfate, the more reactive metal would stay in solution, and not crystallize, crystals can also be re-dissolved in a little hot water and a few drops of acid and re-crystallized to a higher purity the second time.

S + 2H2SO4 ------> 3SO2 + 2H2O
I am unsure but I do not think the sulfur would make SO2 gas unless the sulfuric acid was highly concentrated and heated to the point of boiling off SO2 gas (I am unsure), but if sulfur did not dissolve letting solution settle with carbon or other insoluble material you should be able to decant and filter the solution.

I still cannot say there would be no problems using Structural steel coded 1080, 
But from your well-written post it does look like it would work to make good ferrous sulfate.


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## Mice (Dec 19, 2012)

OK!
Hi Everyone!
I have done some test and nails work's great for me

This is what I'v done:

- 500g of nails (smaller =better)
- 750g sulfide acid (condensed)
- 2500ml of water (distilled =better) 

1. Place nails in to your flask.
2. Add water.
3. Add acid (slowly!)

1. Warm this up on water bath and wait until nails almost gone.
2. Warm solution filter with paper filter.
3. Still warm filtered solution pour in to 1500ml of alcohol (i used IPA).
4. Stir well.
5. Crystals will show up in flew seconds.
6. Filter the crystals.
7. Rise them with 100ml of alcohol again and make them dry.

You have 2000-2250g of clean copperas(FoSO4+7H2O) in your had

Photos of my first attempt:











I hope this help.
Reagrds Mice

P.S
According to my source book if you want to make him really dry, You have to place copperas in flask and warm up (100C)(melting point around 64C) until he lost 30% of his "firs dry" mass.
In another words:
Wait until alcohol evaporate and then weigh, place him in flask and warm up (100C) and wait until his dry mass drop around 35-36%. Crush and hold him in tight container.
You can hold copperas unter H2SO4 cover (Thx Geo!)


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## Geo (Dec 19, 2012)

Mice,store copperas in sulfuric acid.just enough to keep the crystals wet.


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## dreammicke (Jan 22, 2013)

hello can you juse Iron ore to do copperas


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## butcher (Jan 22, 2013)

Ore can be very complicated, yes you can make copperas in solution with ore, actually when they are leaching Iron type ore with dilute sulfuric acid to remove iron and other metals from the ore to concentrate the gold in the ore, copperas is made (as well as other metal sulfates).

But with all of the different combinations of substances in ore, which can complicate the solution, I would not use ore to make copperas, where I needed an iron sulfate to precipitate gold from a solution of gold chloride, here I would want as pure of a product as possible, Iron metal is abundunt and cheap, even small loses of gold can be very expensive.


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## dreammicke (Jan 22, 2013)

i asket bekos i have pure iron ore from the iron mines here in sweden and i whas tinking thet wode be the best sorse fore to make copperas


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## butcher (Jan 22, 2013)

You can make quite a bit of copperas from Iron metal, I like to use the iron laminate from old transformers, I have made several posts on the subject, that explain the process.

When done right you can make really pure copperas crystals, using the soft iron metal from old transformers.

I will normally make a batch and it will last me quite a while.

How you prepare it, has a lot to do with if you can store it, to where it will not oxidize, and will still be good to precipitate gold with, or test for gold in solution.


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## AndyWilliams (Aug 17, 2013)

Hey guys,

I'm going to have a go at making Copperas. Just want to make sure I'm clear on the process.

1. Use the iron laminate from a transformer (I'm hoping someone can confirm that I took a pic of the right stuff).
2. Incinerate the iron laminate to remove any covering.
3. Use Sulfuric Acid at a 10% concentration (using distilled water, heat slightly if necessary) to dissolve iron laminate.
4. Filter to remove solids.
5. Evaporate and remove crystals.
6. Wash crystals with alcohol (IPA? is this step necessary?).
6. Can add water and a few drops of acid to dissolve crystals so as to purify even further.
7. Store with a few drops of sulfuric to avoid browning.

Is there anything I'm missing?

Thanks in advance!


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## Geo (Aug 17, 2013)

you have the right material. 
yes, incinerate.
10% is good. automotive battery electrolyte works well too. heat is recommended.
filter, yes.
evaporate to crystals.
ive never washed with alcohol.
use crystals as is. do not dissolve the crystals.
store submerged in sulfuric. any exposure to the air will decompose the crystals.


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## AndyWilliams (Aug 17, 2013)

Geo said:


> you have the right material.
> yes, incinerate.
> 10% is good. automotive battery electrolyte works well too. heat is recommended.
> filter, yes.
> ...



Thanks Geo,

Do you use them "wet?"


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## butcher (Aug 17, 2013)

I use the green copperas crystals wet or damp, it will not effect the test for gold in a spot plate, or the precipitation of gold from solution.

After burning off shellac from your iron and rinsing it in water I would cut the iron sheets into small pieces, this helps the acid to dissolve it easier.

I also like to recrystallize the copperas, any time you do this you will end up with a more pure product, when the first crystallize they are really pure, but the crystals can hold some impurity with the clumps of the more pure crystals, by dissolving these in a heated solution filtering and making the copperas back into crystals the second time will give you a much purer product, I have never used the alcohol wash and cannot comment on its benefit.

Keep us posted on your results.


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## AndyWilliams (Aug 17, 2013)

butcher said:


> I use the green copperas crystals wet or damp, it will not effect the test for gold in a spot plate, or the precipitation of gold from solution.
> 
> After burning off shellac from your iron and rinsing it in water I would cut the iron sheets into small pieces, this helps the acid to dissolve it easier.
> 
> ...



Thanks butcher, will do.


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## Harold_V (Aug 18, 2013)

I used ferrous sulfate for precipitation for quite some time, before switching to SO2. The primary reason for my conversion was to reduce the volume of solution I had to handle, as I always dissolved the crystals before use. 

I used to buy mine from chemical supply houses. It was sold dry, and bottled so it didn't turn brown. I found it to be quite clean. 

If memory serves, Hoke suggests you dissolve the crystals in a small amount of water, then introduce a few drops of HCl. You'll see a distinct transformation of the resulting solution, as it turns a more vibrant pale green when enough HCl has been added. An added bonus, at least as far as I was concerned, was that the somewhat cloudy solution turned clear, a sure sign something was being dissolved by the addition of the HCl. I also used to filter the solution before adding it to my gold chloride, to ensure that I was not introducing any contaminants. It was my opinion that anything I could do to eliminate unwanted substances was worth the effort. 

I'm not suggesting that using the crystals without dissolving in water doesn't work---but I can see a definite advantage in doing so. 

Laminations are made from a product known as Armco iron. It is iron that has the carbon reduced to virtually zero, so that laminations do not retain magnetism. In its place, one can use scrap steel, which is nothing more than an alloy of carbon and iron, with the carbon in solution (unlike cast iron, where excess carbon precipitates upon cooling). If you must use steel, make your selection something like clean angle or channel iron, then filter after dissolution, to remove the carbon. Don't use mystery metal, as you risk including elements that may contaminate your gold. 

Harold


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## butcher (Aug 18, 2013)

Thank you Harold,
I should clarify I normally do dissolve the crystals when precipitating gold, I have also added the wet fresh crystals to a dilute denoxxed aqua regia they seemed to dissolve quickly in solution, basically I always use the crystals (wet), placing the crystal in the spot plate watching for a brown ring to form around the crystal when gold is in solution.

I never dry the crystals before use, as I figured it would lead to oxidation of the crystals, actually properly made ferrous sulfate are hard to dry out.

when looking at the formula for copperas we see water (hydration) is a part of the crystals makeup FeSO4·7H2O.

Once the copperas crystals oxidize they are no longer ferrous sulfate, but an oxidized compound of iron (sulfate) they will not work once oxidized to precipitate gold, they will also lose the bright green color turning brown or white, storing them in a sealed plastic HDPE bottle wet and slightly acidic helps to keep them fresh and from air and oxidation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron%28II%29_sulfate


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## Geo (Aug 18, 2013)

ive used copperas until the batch i made was used up. i wanted to see the reaction first hand. i didnt dissolve the crystals and it seemed to work ok so i just assumed i had done everything correctly. thank you Harold for straightening that out.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 27, 2016)

I know this is a significantly old thread, but I like it.

So, bump!


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## rewalston (Jul 18, 2016)

I was wondering if this transformer will work for making copperas? Of course I have to clean everything up on it, I just tore apart an old stereo system. Also what should it be filtered through. If I'm not mistaken even at 10% wouldn't the sulphuric acid ruin coffee filters?
Rusty


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 18, 2016)

rewalston said:


> I was wondering if this transformer will work for making copperas? Of course I have to clean everything up on it, I just tore apart an old stereo system. Also what should it be filtered through. If I'm not mistaken even at 10% wouldn't the sulphuric acid ruin coffee filters?
> Rusty
> IMG_20160718_182119[1].jpg




Yes you can use that one. Get everything cleaned off of it, grind the welds to separate the plates and torch it to remove the coating and you are ready to dissolve it.

And you will need to use fiberglass or other product that will not be dissolved by the sulfuric when you filter.


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## rewalston (Jul 18, 2016)

Thanks Barren, that was kind of what I was thinking. I'll get this transformer cleaned up but it will probably be a while before I make up some copperas. But should be able to make quite a bit from this thing. Damn neared landed on my foot, that would have hurt, instead it landed on my tiled floor big gouge :shock: .

Rusty


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## jason_recliner (Jul 19, 2016)

> And you will need to use fiberglass or other product that will not be dissolved by the sulfuric when you filter.


If you have an excess of iron, so that the sulfuric is [mostly] consumed, this is not a problem with regular filter papers. But add a touch more sulfuric after filtering, for a slight excess is a good thing.
Just don't leave it depleting too long, or it will start to rust.


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## rewalston (Jul 19, 2016)

Thanks Jason, I'll keep that in mind. I need to find a suitable glass container to store it in once I'm finished making it.
Rusty


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## bcgold (May 26, 2019)

Likewise I use the laminates from transformers, incinerate to remove varnish, battery acid cut 50/50 with rain water.

The reaction is slightly exothermic, the only head used was solar.

Large bowel came off of a discarded front load washing machine. its probably made from borosilicate glass and will hold at least 10 liters.


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## anachronism (May 26, 2019)

Buy Ferrous Sulphate and save yourself the work. 

Yes I made my own just to see how easy it was and yes it's easy but see how cheap the pure product is, and it's not worth the hassle.


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## bcgold (May 26, 2019)

anachronism said:


> Buy Ferrous Sulphate and save yourself the work.
> 
> Yes I made my own just to see how easy it was and yes it's easy but see how cheap the pure product is, and it's not worth the hassle.



I live in a very rural area that even the couriers will not deliver and the nearest agent is forty five minutes away, the thing with ferrous sulfate it will oxidize when exposed to air.

The one time I was in Winnipeg bought a large sack of it and it was already brown. 3.5 hours to the peg to return a $20.00 bag rotten ferrous sulfate not going to happen.

I did manage to clean some up a bit with dilute hcl which cost me $15.00 for each 4 liter jug, my sulfuric acid cost me nothing as the farm has a large stock pile of old battery's.

The impurity's are easily filtered out using the right cloth, I have a fire retardant cloth used in curtains which is made from fiber glass which is impervious to sulfuric acid.

I tried using some SMB that I had but found out this afternoon that five years in storage rendered it useless, thus the call for making my own copperas.


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## anachronism (May 26, 2019)

Good point about the oxidation. 

Top tip - buy the wet stuff. 8)


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## prospector_pete (May 5, 2020)

Palladium said:


> Welcome to the forum glondor. Hoke is available as a free download in my sig link. Also note the search box in the top corner. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
> 
> I'm just messing with you man. :mrgreen:
> I've heard them mention the steel from transformers before but not sure about the nails. It is a good question though. I haven't used any yet i'm still learning the smb route. It does come in handy for testing. Someone should do a good vid or pdf on it.



when i perfect making mine , i will do a video and put it on my channel


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## prospector_pete (May 5, 2020)

that sounds great harold . very easy to understand . im going to try it


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## prospector_pete (May 8, 2020)

my first attempt at making copperas , how did i go ?


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## butcher (May 8, 2020)

Looking good, looks like you have been spending your time wisely.


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## Shark (May 8, 2020)

Looks a lot like the ones I made. Now we would like to see them in use,


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## FrugalRefiner (May 8, 2020)

Excellent! Now store them in a tightly capped container with a few drops of diluted sulfuric acid and they will last a long time.

Dave


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## prospector_pete (May 8, 2020)

i must have made it wrong , it doesnt work .
th AR tested really strong for gold with stannous . when i put the crystals in the solution went black and thats it . it no longer tests positive for gold but nothing has happened . its not clearing up and theres no gold . i even tried putting some water in with a few drops of sulfuric and letting it mix with the crystals , then i poured it in but still no change


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## butcher (May 8, 2020)

Not knowing what you have done or been doing, I suspect your gold solution the problem, and not the copperas crystals.

How pure of a gold solution are you talking about? Approximately how much gold are you expecting from this solution, Is this gold in a fairly pure state being refined? 

Or is the bulk of solution base metals with a trace of gold in the dirty solution in some attempt to recover the gold by dissolving it with the base metals?

When you say it tests strong with stannous chloride, what are you referring to?

You said the solution no longer tests positive for gold, and you believe your tests showed positive before, well then the copperas did its job of reducing the gold (it worked).

The amount of gold could have been very small and your stannous test was not false, you may just need to let it settle overnight and use a magnifying glass to see the gold powder...

Or your tests of gold previously with stannous was invalid (false positive from copper reduction and overuse of SMB...), and there was no gold to reduce or very little gold in solution.

How many grams of gold did you dissolve, did you dissolve a bulk of base metals with a trace of gold?

Do you have a standard of a known content gold solution, to test your reagents such as testing and reducing agents with?

The copperas looks good, I would suspect the mystery lies elsewhere.


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## prospector_pete (May 8, 2020)

ok i treated gold coated pins , about 500 grams. first i soaked in hcl to remover solder , tin..... 
then i thoroughly washed , then soaked in nitric on heat for hours , i kept adding nitric till there 
was no more reaction . then i totally drained and filted the nitric , and i added the remains to another
filter i had with foils from fingers . so all up i should have atleast 600 grams. i thoroughly washed it 
all till there was no colour in rinse water . then put it in hcl . heated it up , and added the tiniest bit of nitric ,
in totaly after several small additions i think i would have put about 10 mil of nitric. i filtered it , put sulfamic acid , tested it and got an immidiate black/purple stain . a very strong result. by strong result i mean that sometimes the stain slowly appears , but this was immidiate and very dark.
this is only a portion of my AR , i still have lots left. i only put crystals ina small amount incae this happened.
and the only thing i can think of is i didnt double the quantity with water.
the remaining AR has been heated till it reduced to a syrup and has been rehydrated in hcl


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## prospector_pete (May 8, 2020)

this is what it looks like after sitting for 7 hours . ive just switched it all to a bigger beaker and added more than twice its volume with rain water


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## prospector_pete (May 8, 2020)




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## jarlowski1 (May 8, 2020)

What was the color of the solution before you added the copperous? And just out of curiosity why did you add rain water?


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## butcher (May 9, 2020)

looks more like you are attempting to get some gold from a solution loaded with copper or iron...

You may have some gold in that base metal solution which you can recover, I would just use copper to cement the gold from the base metals solution.

You are not refining gold at this stage, you are trying to recover gold from this base metal solution...


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## prospector_pete (May 9, 2020)

it started out as a deep yellow solution . somewhere along the line it went green . i dont know why .
and i use rain water because its falling from the sky like theres no tomorrow . and i figured why buy mineral free water when its being thrown at me for free.
isnt rainwater good to use ?

by the way , i appreciate your advice and input . thankyou guys


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## prospector_pete (May 9, 2020)

i ended up getting it to drop the gold , i put more crystals in and i put it on heat


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## jarlowski1 (May 9, 2020)

Thats good, sometimes reactions can be delayed. Rain water is not clean it can also have dissolved metals in it. It can also be slightly acidic. The reason why is because we as humans pump dirty contaminated exhaust from factories and cars into the air and it gets absorbed and mixed with the natural cycle of evaporation and falls back to earth as contaminated rainwater. Distilled water is what most here will use since it is really cheap. I pay less than a dollar (usd) per gallon (3780 ml). You just have to find a place that sells it near you. Some factories produce it as a byproduct (they use steam for all sorts of things, the steam condenses, they can collect this and sell it if it works out that way for them). Anyway glad you got your gold back.


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## prospector_pete (May 9, 2020)

jarlowski1 said:


> Thats good, sometimes reactions can be delayed. Rain water is not clean it can also have dissolved metals in it. It can also be slightly acidic. The reason why is because we as humans pump dirty contaminated exhaust from factories and cars into the air and it gets absorbed and mixed with the natural cycle of evaporation and falls back to earth as contaminated rainwater. Distilled water is what most here will use since it is really cheap. I pay less than a dollar (usd) per gallon (3780 ml). You just have to find a place that sells it near you. Some factories produce it as a byproduct (they use steam for all sorts of things, the steam condenses, they can collect this and sell it if it works out that way for them). Anyway glad you got your gold back.



awesome , thanks for letting me know . i thought rain water was as pure as it gets . and thanks for your input


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## Shark (May 9, 2020)

For dropping gold, I usually heat my solutions, both the gold and my precipitant. I get to maybe a medium heat by my hot plate settings. With the gold in a beaker twice the size of the solution I add the precipitant to the gold very cautiously and slowly as it can cause a run away reaction and spill over if there isn't enough room. It can be very violent if you get to hot or mix them to fast. With coppera's, the remaining solution will usually take on a darker color compared to SMB. The less gold in solution the longer it will take to see the gold reform and settle out. 

Don't forget to show us your button when you get around to melting it.


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