# My Acid / Peroxide Attempt



## joem

This is my notes on this Acid Peoxide attemp
I have gathered up see pics
bag...
1 - 1 pound 1.15 oz clean trimmed fingers
2 - 1 pound 1.45 oz clean trimmed fingers
3 - 1 pound 0.20 oz clean trimmed fingers
4 - 1 pound clean trimmed fingers
5 - 1 pound clean trimmed fingers
6 - 3.20 oz clean trimmed fingers which aslo has gold under the green
7 - 1 pound 3.20 oz unused factory defect corsair memory boards
8 - 6.80 oz unused factory defect corsair memory boards
9 - 1.70 oz unused factory defect chip boards
10 - 3.40 oz of unused factory defect hard drive boards

I am going to proceed as directed on this forum for each step.
Please give me plenty of feed back


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## Barren Realms 007

Nice looking material. Have patience and don't get in a rush by adding too much peroxide to your solution. Good luck


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## joem

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Nice looking material. Have patience and don't get in a rush by adding too much peroxide to your solution. Good luck


 will do, I also plan to do each type separately as per steve's posts elsewhere on the forum.


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## Barren Realms 007

I wouldn't be concerned about doing them separatly unless you just want to they look pretty clean and you should not have much of a problem processing them.


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## element47

Nice thread idea! Thanks for starting it. Do you have any plans for a step in which you try to knock off solder mask? This might be a "side" step applicable to your "defect" boards, after which those boards can join up with your "fingers" to be processed together. 

To be clear: I am just asking (yes/no) if you've made this part of your overall process: I am not offering nor suggesting this as a thing to do nor holding myself out as someone who is qualified to advise you.


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## joem

element47 said:


> Nice thread idea! Thanks for starting it. Do you have any plans for a step in which you try to knock off solder mask? This might be a "side" step applicable to your "defect" boards, after which those boards can join up with your "fingers" to be processed together.
> 
> To be clear: I am just asking (yes/no) if you've made this part of your overall process: I am not offering nor suggesting this as a thing to do nor holding myself out as someone who is qualified to advise you.



No I have not thought of it, but steve does have a video on the subject. 
Does anyone think I might need to do this on the defect boards?


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## Barren Realms 007

joem said:


> element47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice thread idea! Thanks for starting it. Do you have any plans for a step in which you try to knock off solder mask? This might be a "side" step applicable to your "defect" boards, after which those boards can join up with your "fingers" to be processed together.
> 
> To be clear: I am just asking (yes/no) if you've made this part of your overall process: I am not offering nor suggesting this as a thing to do nor holding myself out as someone who is qualified to advise you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I have not thought of it, but steve does have a video on the subject.
> Does anyone think I might need to do this on the defect boards?
Click to expand...


Unless you are seeing solder that I don't see I would not be concerned about it.


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## joem

I scratched one of the cosair memory boards and there is also plating under the black. Is the black considered solder mask or could it be a paint of some sort?

edit: scratched some more definately copper coloured so no worries, ignore question


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## Barren Realms 007

Put one in some hot sodium hydroxide for a few minutes and see what it does.


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## joem

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Put one in some hot sodium hydroxide for a few minutes and see what it does.


I just watched steve's video but now after scratching a good 3 mm square area from memory, hard drive boards, and chip boards, under a magnifying glass they show a definate reddish copper colour under the mask. So I will still proceed with regular A/P path.


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## element47

Would you not be better off just cutting away the copper-plated (eg; non gold-bearing) sections of these boards and keeping the copper out of your solvent as much as possible? Why are you placing any more Cu in solution than you absolutely have to?


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## joem

element47 said:


> Would you not be better off just cutting away the copper-plated (eg; non gold-bearing) sections of these boards and keeping the copper out of your solvent as much as possible? Why are you placing any more Cu in solution than you absolutely have to?



Keep it cleaner? Good Idea.


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## dogger brian

sounds like a guess how much gold competition to me 8)


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## husker4515

Well I will start it. I say there is 12 grams total.


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## joem

dogger brian said:


> sounds like a guess how much gold competition to me 8)



I did*n't* put it up as a guessing game, I wanted to do this as a "fairly new at this but with some experience member" activity and taking guidance from members every step of the way. My success, I my opinion, with SMB has been not too good so when I get to that point advice will be needed. (but only at that point)
Since all gold fingers come from a mix of any finger I could clip off of a part. It is not a uniform supply. 
If I do this right, following all the guidance from you guys, I might be looking above 18 grams. hehe my guess.

edit for clarity


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## joem

Made some Stannous chloride tonight. I'm going to do this attempt by the book and to the letter.


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## goldenchild

husker4515 said:


> Well I will start it. I say there is 12 grams total.



I'll say 15 grams.


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## shyknee

exactly 11.5grams  8)


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## dtectr

17.5g - carefully computed 8)


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## glondor

14.92 grams.


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## Barren Realms 007

16g


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## Malais

13.3g


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## seawolf

14.44 grams.
Mark


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## patnor1011

12.12 :lol:


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## shyknee

joem 
See what you started , now you have all us depending on you for an answer :mrgreen:


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## joem

shyknee said:


> joem
> See what you started , now you have all us depending on you for an answer :mrgreen:



Just waiting for the weather to warm up again. (it's about 38f daytimes)


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## Barren Realms 007

joem said:


> shyknee said:
> 
> 
> 
> joem
> See what you started , now you have all us depending on you for an answer :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just waiting for the weather to warm up again. (it's about 38f daytimes)
Click to expand...


Temperature dosen't matter as much as you think. I processe 75 lbs. in 30 deg weather.


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## joem

Barren Realms 007 said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shyknee said:
> 
> 
> 
> joem
> See what you started , now you have all us depending on you for an answer :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just waiting for the weather to warm up again. (it's about 38f daytimes)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Temperature dosen't matter as much as you think. I processe 75 lbs. in 30 deg weather.
Click to expand...

yeah but I move slower in colder weather :lol:


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## floppy

I'm going with 15.45


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## dub8

16.60


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## Sodbuster

11.11

And if it ever warms up, you get to mow the lawn, joy,


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## joem

Sodbuster said:


> 11.11
> 
> And if it ever warms up, you get to mow the lawn, joy,



Lawn? I get to mow the dandilions.


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## joem

Here is the bucket setup I will use with and aquarium bubbler to keep it freesh and use less peroxide


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## joem

Only 5 photos at a time
sorry I just realized photos are out of order 
and no I don't process in my kitchen


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## Barren Realms 007

Well you seem to have everything ready. Put them in and let them roll. 8)


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## glondor

Hey Joem. Take your torch to your strainer bucket and gently burn off the scraggly bits around all the holes you drilled. You will thank me when it comes time to get your foils. On my first batch I had those snaggly bits and so much foil gets stuck on those, it is a real pain.


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## joem

glondor said:


> Hey Joem. Take your torch to your strainer bucket and gently burn off the scraggly bits around all the holes you drilled. You will thank me when it comes time to get your foils. On my first batch I had those snaggly bits and so much foil gets stuck on those, it is a real pain.



These are the little things I want to hear about. Thanks
The 1st 2 pounds are going in tomorrow. My 1st run will be the memory, chip, harddrive boards, and 3/4 inch long fingers. Does anyone have advice on how much peroxide is needed to start even with an air bubbler? Or is it still 3 parts HCL and 1 part Peroxide?

edit; burn off pointy bits - Done.


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## glondor

I just poured in 1 cup to get mine going. One thing that I found that helped me was I broke all the fingers in half at the thin point. I found it easier to deal with later getting the foils if all the fingers were the same length.

I also wash them good before putting in the A/P. It eliminates a lot of dirt and shop dust right up front. Agitate daily. Just like my kids do to me. 

I may get a 2 gallon garden pump sprayer to help wash down my next batch. Copper chloride burns door mats. 

You can keep reusing the same solution. Have fun!


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## Oz

joem said:


> glondor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have advice on how much peroxide is needed to start even with an air bubbler?
Click to expand...

I have done fingers in HCl with a bubbler and not added any H2O2.


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## joem

glondor said:


> I just poured in 1 cup to get mine going. One thing that I found that helped me was I broke all the fingers in half at the thin point. I found it easier to deal with later getting the foils if all the fingers were the same length.
> 
> I also wash them good before putting in the A/P. It eliminates a lot of dirt and shop dust right up front. Agitate daily. Just like my kids do to me.
> 
> I may get a 2 gallon garden pump sprayer to help wash down my next batch. Copper chloride burns door mats.
> 
> You can keep reusing the same solution. Have fun!



Wash them check.
Agitated - Very funny because I can relate.
Copper chloride burns door mats - Cool (oops my wife just yelled at me for saying cool to this :lol: )


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## lazersteve

I would ditch the aquarium stone and simply seal the end of the tube with heat, then add a few pin holes along the tube's end to allow the air out of the tube. 

The blue stone will dissolve.

Steve


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## joem

lazersteve said:


> I would ditch the aquarium stone and simply seal the end of the tube with heat, then add a few pin holes along the tube's end to allow the air out of the tube.
> 
> The blue stone will dissolve.
> 
> Steve



and it is done. thanks Mr Steve.


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## glondor

The black stones dissolve as well. I like the pin hole Idea.


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## joem

Alright
1st part of Fingers. Just over 2 pounds. 
Washed first - the water had a tint of grey dirt. 
Holes in the tube - Made a more equal distribution of air through the Acid / Peroxide.
3 Parts acid + 1 Part Peroxide.
Bubbler sealed in a zip loc baggie to prevent weather damage
Now sitting on my deck bubbling away no matter what the weather brings.
Ready to agitate a 2 times a day.


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## Barren Realms 007

Is your bubbler tube under your inside bucket or under your material on your inside bucket? It will have a better effect under your material. You can loose the bag your bubbler is in. If it rains it will hold up and not be damaged unless you just totaly submerge it in water.


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## joem

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Is your bubbler tube under your inside bucket or under your material on your inside bucket? It will have a better effect under your material. You can loose the bag your bubbler is in. If it rains it will hold up and not be damaged unless you just totaly submerge it in water.



The tube is under my strainer bucket. The next batch in this run I will add it in the fingers to see if it makes a difference.
I'm a bit particular about electrical items outside.


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## Barren Realms 007

joem said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is your bubbler tube under your inside bucket or under your material on your inside bucket? It will have a better effect under your material. You can loose the bag your bubbler is in. If it rains it will hold up and not be damaged unless you just totaly submerge it in water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tube is under my strainer bucket. The next batch in this run I will add it in the fingers to see if it makes a difference.
> I'm a bit particular about electrical items outside.
Click to expand...


That is understood bout the electrical item bing in the weather. My ran outside in the snow and rain till I forgot it was in a bucket in one rain and it didn't survive that. :roll: 

You can run more of your material in that bucket when you get comfortable in what you are doing. I can run 80 lbs of fingers in a 15 gal container. The fingers fill the container all the way up to the top. I put my solution in and ran a double air bubbler in it for about 8-10 days and then drained my solution off and all of the gold was seperated. You will be surprised in how far you can push your solution.


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## glondor

Hey Barren, How did you get all the foils out of the 80 pounds? That is a problem I had on the several batches I have done. I washed and rinsed and washed and rinsed but there is still loose foils on the processed fingers. Not a lot mind you but enough that I have them set aside to look at later.


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## Anonymous

I run mine in poorman's AR.If you use less solution than it takes to dissolve everything,you can saturate it,decant and then run a second solution that has little base metals,fully dissolve the foils,decant,filter,and precipitate.
Decant and dissolve again for good purity.On the second dissolution,make sure and filter with a filter plug that steve talks about,to get out even the smallest of contaminants.


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## glondor

Aww hey Mic that is brilliant. I will have to try that. There are a lot of advantages to poorman's as I am learning.


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## Anonymous

Steve taught me that trick a long time ago.If you are good you can run pounds and pounds of material in a smaller container.
Just dissolve as much material as you can in any given volume of space,until it becomes saturated with base metals and cements the PM's.Decant and do it again until you start getting low on base metals.Once the volume of base metals left is very small,go ahead and dissolve it all,filter and proceed as you would with AC or AR.Just filter really good,precipitate,and wash.
In my case I don't even wash anymore,I just dissolve several times in AC.I can dissolve 1/2oz of powder in AC,evaporate off the chlorine and drop in about 20 minutes.It is the ultimate way to purify the gold,without having to go into using sulfer dioxide gas,ammonia,and distilled water.
You saw I got 99.13% from dissolving several times.I should have another one to post tomorrow or tuesday,I will post the results of the assay on that also.


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## Barren Realms 007

glondor said:


> Hey Barren, How did you get all the foils out of the 80 pounds? That is a problem I had on the several batches I have done. I washed and rinsed and washed and rinsed but there is still loose foils on the processed fingers. Not a lot mind you but enough that I have them set aside to look at later.



I did the same thing mic did, I ran them in a 5 gal bucket of poor man's AR heated with a fish cooker. I washed the loose foils off of the finges as I was taking them out of the original 15 gal. container. When all of the fiberglass fingers had been run thru the solution I finished it up with the foils.


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## joem

ok. So I'm bringing this thread off A/R and back to A/P.
Here are my foils after the first agitation.
Is my A/P too dark?


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## Barren Realms 007

Leave them alone and stop playing with them. 8)


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## joem

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Leave them alone and stop playing with them. 8)



Yeah my mom said that to me when I was young.
we had puupies in the house. :lol:


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## Barren Realms 007

joem said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leave them alone and stop playing with them. 8)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah my mom said that to me when I was young.
> we had puupies in the house. :lol:
Click to expand...


And you remember what happens when you play with the puppies too much? They piss all over you.


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## stihl88

It's best to keep the pump above the height of the bucket or just keep the bucket on the ground as it is possible the get re-flux of the AP back into the pump, particularly if you get a power outage. I believe the air flows more consistently this way also.

If you do this you will get a 12.2g Button at the end


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## joem

stihl88 said:


> It's best to keep the pump above the height of the bucket or just keep the bucket on the ground as it is possible the get re-flux of the AP back into the pump, particularly if you get a power outage. I believe the air flows more consistently this way also.
> 
> If you do this you will get a 12.2g Button at the end



Moved up as requested.
I think with all the suggestions from this forum,
this will be the biggest group effort A/P attempt ever.


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## Barren Realms 007

joem said:


> stihl88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's best to keep the pump above the height of the bucket or just keep the bucket on the ground as it is possible the get re-flux of the AP back into the pump, particularly if you get a power outage. I believe the air flows more consistently this way also.
> 
> If you do this you will get a 12.2g Button at the end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moved up as requested.
> I think with all the suggestions from this forum,
> this will be the biggest group effort A/P attempt ever.
Click to expand...


ROFLMAO,

You haven't said what the prize is for the one that guesses the closest.... :twisted:


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## joem

Barren Realms 007 said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stihl88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's best to keep the pump above the height of the bucket or just keep the bucket on the ground as it is possible the get re-flux of the AP back into the pump, particularly if you get a power outage. I believe the air flows more consistently this way also.
> 
> If you do this you will get a 12.2g Button at the end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moved up as requested.
> I think with all the suggestions from this forum,
> this will be the biggest group effort A/P attempt ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROFLMAO,
> 
> You haven't said what the prize is for the one that guesses the closest.... :twisted:
Click to expand...


OK ok. Since so many people here are guessing on this attempt, and Barren has pushed my guilt button, I will offer a unique prize.
A 1/4 inch iron meteorite from my collection. Postage paid by me.
Closest to the XX.XX grams without going over.
One vote per individual person


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## Harold_V

joe said:


> A 1/4 inch iron meteorite from my collection.


Any chance you could post a close-up picture? I'd love to see it.

Harold


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## goldenchild

10.21 grams


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## husker4515

11.71


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## joem

Harold_V said:


> joe said:
> 
> 
> 
> A 1/4 inch iron meteorite from my collection.
> 
> 
> 
> Any chance you could post a close-up picture? I'd love to see it.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...


Here ya go.


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## Harold_V

joem said:


> Here ya go.


Thanks! To my knowledge, it's the first one I've seen. 

I was expecting something that resembled a crispy critter. Has it been cleaned up in any way? I'm totally surprised at even a hint of a shiny surface. 

Harold


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## joem

Harold_V said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! To my knowledge, it's the first one I've seen.
> 
> I was expecting something that resembled a crispy critter. Has it been cleaned up in any way? I'm totally surprised at even a hint of a shiny surface.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...


Yes it has been cleaned. Which does mot matter to me since these space rocks are used in my kids schooling. ( before you ask no I did not take it from them, I have lots)


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## skeeter629

I am going to guess 21.2 grams.


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## joem

The colour of the solution is a dark brown. Is the bubbler supposed to keep it more of a light green or does only peroxide do that?
Foils are coming off though.


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## Militoy

Nice little Russian meteorite! I have one in my own collection I picked up on ePay. I was kind of surprised how similar the finish and shape are to the Canyon Diablo's (Arizona) that I have. I cheated a bit and shined the rust and some of the fusion crust off the high spots on mine by carrying it around in my jeans pocket for a couple of weeks. If it's not too late to throw in a wild guess - I'll say 14.44g. But I hope you get a whole lot more!


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## joem

Militoy said:


> Nice little Russian meteorite! I have one in my own collection I picked up on ePay. I was kind of surprised how similar the finish and shape are to the Canyon Diablo's (Arizona) that I have. I cheated a bit and shined the rust and some of the fusion crust off the high spots on mine by carrying it around in my jeans pocket for a couple of weeks. If it's not too late to throw in a wild guess - I'll say 14.44g. But I hope you get a whole lot more!


Not too late at all


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## dtectr

joem said:


> The colour of the solution is a dark brown. Is the bubbler supposed to keep it more of a light green or does only peroxide do that?
> Foils are coming off though.


http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9149&p=87239&hilit=copper+saturation+white#p87239


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## joem

dtectr said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> The colour of the solution is a dark brown. Is the bubbler supposed to keep it more of a light green or does only peroxide do that?
> Foils are coming off though.
> 
> 
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9149&p=87239&hilit=copper+saturation+white#p87239
Click to expand...

thanks


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## dtectr

joem said:


> dtectr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> The colour of the solution is a dark brown. Is the bubbler supposed to keep it more of a light green or does only peroxide do that?
> Foils are coming off though.
> 
> 
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9149&p=87239&hilit=copper+saturation+white#p87239
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thanks
Click to expand...

steve IS the man 8)


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## joem

Cleaned and filtered first run of boards. Used a toothbrush in a bucket of water to scrub stuck on foils (beforeyou say it, it was an old toothbrush and I wore gloves). Then strained A/P mix to catch the rest of the foils. All are inside a water bucket for now. Boosted the A/P mix and placed the rest of the trimmed fingers into it and set it aside to do it's magic.


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## Barren Realms 007

Very good job, you are getting there.


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## husker4515

Very nice 8)


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## husker4515

joem said:


> Cleaned and filtered first run of boards. Used a toothbrush in a bucket of water to scrub stuck on foils (beforeyou say it, it was an old toothbrush and I wore gloves). Then strained A/P mix to catch the rest of the foils. All are inside a water bucket for now. Boosted the A/P mix and placed the rest of the trimmed fingers into it and set it aside to do it's magic.



Hey Joem how many grams of fingers are in the bucket?


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## joem

husker4515 said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned and filtered first run of boards. Used a toothbrush in a bucket of water to scrub stuck on foils (beforeyou say it, it was an old toothbrush and I wore gloves). Then strained A/P mix to catch the rest of the foils. All are inside a water bucket for now. Boosted the A/P mix and placed the rest of the trimmed fingers into it and set it aside to do it's magic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Joem how many grams of fingers are in the bucket?
Click to expand...

These are all the fingers listed in my first post on this thread.


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## goldenchild

The fingers are where you will get the bulk of your yeild. Watch how much thicker the bed of finger foils are when you're done. 8)


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## joem

I did find using tubing to syphon off the liquid from the bucket a bit cumbersome. The tube kept falling into the bottom sucking the flakes into it. One end moved around alot causing the other end to move. I just got frustrated so I went to a different idea. I let the wash water bucket sit on an angle until all the flakes settled then I used a turkey baster to remove the luquid from the top down, it took a little longer but it worked. Then I line a small bowl with Plastic sandwhich wrap and let the whole thing settle on my fish tank bubbler as a vibration table.

I've never seen a fish so interested in what we humans do in our daily lives.

ok so there are a lot of floating foils. Would a drop of dish soap make them drop to the bottom or is that just for SMB dropping?


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## glondor

Nice job Joem. You could try shooting the foils down with a spray bottle.


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## joem

glondor said:


> Nice job Joem. You could try shooting the foils down with a spray bottle.


yep did that and they just refloat


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## manorman

A drop or 2 of jet dry should work, it drops that float gold when you pan placer gold, and yes gold will float.
Looks like you did a good job, good luck.
MIke


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## joem

So after foils are settled I like wick the top most water from the bowl and then flatten out the plastic wrap on top of my fridge where it is warm and the moisture will evaporate.


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## Barren Realms 007

If you have some that are just determined to float push them aginst the side of your container and rub them a little bit and they will ball up and sink to the bottom.


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## shyknee

joem 
don't worry about floaters or drying its all destined to get wet again.


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## joem

shyknee said:


> joem
> don't worry about floaters or drying its all destined to get wet again.


I want to see what they weigh dried.


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## shyknee

Curious, humm , that is very good.


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## Barren Realms 007

joem said:


> shyknee said:
> 
> 
> 
> joem
> don't worry about floaters or drying its all destined to get wet again.
> 
> 
> 
> I want to see what they weigh dried.
Click to expand...


Curiosity killed the cat. Murphy's law comes into effect.


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## joem

Barren Realms 007 said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shyknee said:
> 
> 
> 
> joem
> don't worry about floaters or drying its all destined to get wet again.
> 
> 
> 
> I want to see what they weigh dried.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Curiosity killed the cat. Murphy's law comes into effect.
Click to expand...


Not much I can do tonight, so they will dry anyway.
and my cat is too fat.


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## dtectr

I dried & weighed mine [foils] once, only later did I realize that a thin film of tin oxide covered each foil, so that the weight [& volume], were misleading. 

Kind of like sales, the only number that counts at the end of the day is total sales & commission! I don't even weigh powder, since I'm not splitting that number with anyone, just the payout on the weight of the final button.


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## joem

As they are now
2 grams of dried foils


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## joem

So we had quite a bit of rain over the last two days. The water went through the vent hole and filled up my A/P bucket to the brim. About and inch of water added to the A/P. What's your concerns about A/P recovery. Do I dump out some and re-add fresh A/P?


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## Barren Realms 007

joem said:


> So we had quite a bit of rain over the last two days. The water went through the vent hole and filled up my A/P bucket to the brim. About and inch of water added to the A/P. What's your concerns about A/P recovery. Do I dump out some and re-add fresh A/P?



Let it continue the process and see how it works.


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## joem

I found the bucket was too small for the amount of fingers so I think there was not enough A/P mixture. I cleaned it up a bit since the rain water diluted the mixture too much and stopped the process. So I was cleaning it up and found this grey (sludge) powder at the bottom mixed in with black specks ( assumed dropped gold from copper). Is this lead? Salts? Debris?


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## joem

Went back and searched for lead and found references to boiling water and silver. so I tried a teaspoon full of the grey powder in a cup of boiling water. The grey dissapeared leaving the foils and a yellow tinted water. I certainly don't think the yellow tinted water ( no jokes here please, ok just a few) has gold in but it did leave clean foils. Comments?


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## Barren Realms 007

joem said:


> Went back and searched for lead and found references to boiling water and silver. so I tried a teaspoon full of the grey powder in a cup of boiling water. The grey dissapeared leaving the foils and a yellow tinted water. I certainly don't think the yellow tinted water ( no jokes here please, ok just a few) has gold in but it did leave clean foils. Comments?



Did you test it with stannous?


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## joem

Barren Realms 007 said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Went back and searched for lead and found references to boiling water and silver. so I tried a teaspoon full of the grey powder in a cup of boiling water. The grey dissapeared leaving the foils and a yellow tinted water. I certainly don't think the yellow tinted water ( no jokes here please, ok just a few) has gold in but it did leave clean foils. Comments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you test it with stannous?
Click to expand...

 Not yet, I have not boiled it yet. If I have to. Depending on the advice I get here. I am still using the original (diluted) A/P with the half of the fingers which still have foils on them. I'll probably have to bump up the solution but I ran out of HCL and have to get some tomorrow.


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## Oz

Joem,

Given the feedstock you are using, no matter whether you are using H2O2 or just bubbling air into it with your HCL, you will always digest some gold inadvertently that will be reduced to a black powder by the base metals you have going into solution at the same time.

I would imagine that your grey powder is mainly copper 1 chloride but I would bet there is also some gold with it that went into solution and was cemented back out. Wash your grey slime in some warm HCl to put the copper 1 chloride back into solution. Add a few drops of nitric, then test with stannous. You will likely get a positive gold result.


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## joem

Oz said:


> Joem,
> 
> Given the feedstock you are using, no matter whether you are using H2O2 or just bubbling air into it with your HCL, you will always digest some gold inadvertently that will be reduced to a black powder by the base metals you have going into solution at the same time.
> 
> I would imagine that your grey powder is mainly copper 1 chloride but I would bet there is also some gold with it that went into solution and was cemented back out. Wash your grey slime in some warm HCl to put the copper 1 chloride back into solution. Add a few drops of nitric, then test with stannous. You will likely get a positive gold result.



Nitric is not a possibility for me, is there another way?


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## goldenchild

joem said:


> Oz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joem,
> 
> Given the feedstock you are using, no matter whether you are using H2O2 or just bubbling air into it with your HCL, you will always digest some gold inadvertently that will be reduced to a black powder by the base metals you have going into solution at the same time.
> 
> I would imagine that your grey powder is mainly copper 1 chloride but I would bet there is also some gold with it that went into solution and was cemented back out. Wash your grey slime in some warm HCl to put the copper 1 chloride back into solution. Add a few drops of nitric, then test with stannous. You will likely get a positive gold result.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nitric is not a possibility for me, is there another way?
Click to expand...


clorox
sodium nitrate
more/stronger H2O2


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## Oz

joem said:


> Nitric is not a possibility for me, is there another way?


Yes, you can use a little household bleach (sodium hypochlorite) with HCl to put your suspect gold precipitate into solution for testing. After digestion be sure to take your solution to just shy of boiling for a few minutes to drive off any excess Cl2 gas before you test with stannous.


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## joem

Oz said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nitric is not a possibility for me, is there another way?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you can use a little household bleach (sodium hypochlorite) with HCl to put your suspect gold precipitate into solution for testing. After digestion be sure to take your solution to just shy of boiling for a few minutes to drive off any excess Cl2 gas before you test with stannous.
Click to expand...


I will try it


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## joem

So out of all the fingers these are the only ones that the foils did not come off (see picture). They go into the next run.
It took some time but I took every finger out, checked it for stuck gold, tooth brushed any stubborn ones, re rinsed all the fingers in water to find any hidden foils, and now I have a whole whack of foils and powder settling ( see pic)over night so I can siphone off water in the morning. Do you suggest I do a wash with HCL until clear?

added settling picture, dish is about 4 inches wide and two inches deep


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## dtectr

Those look like "oldies but goodies"! 8) :mrgreen: 

I had some that were repaired by the end-users of the equipment using a plating pen - they probably used way too much gold but they were THICK! 8)


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## joem

Alright great minds of the forum.
This is where I will need the most help.
Please guide humble 'ol me.

ps keep in mind Nitric is not an option for me


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## Harold_V

joem said:


> Alright great minds of the forum.
> This is where I will need the most help.
> Please guide humble 'ol me.
> 
> ps keep in mind Nitric is not an option for me


Keep in mind that my specialty was NOT escrap. However, I had a process I followed religiously that insured the least amount of trouble and the best outcome. 

If that lot of gold foils was mine, and I was to process further, I'd begin by incinerating the lot, insuring that I eliminated all carbonaceous material. I would then screen the resulting solids, then do a wash in hot HCl. Rinse properly, then dissolve by the method of your choosing. 

I expect my method will not be popular with many. For me, there was no other way. 

Harold


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## dtectr

Foils will appear pure gold, but will possibly have a thin film of tin/lead (from residual solder), if any was present in the feedstock, or even copper &/or nickel. The unreleased foils suggest that base metal dissolution wasn't entirely complete. These should all be soluble in concentrated HCl, but rinsing alone won't get it all, because of how thin they are & how tightly they lay over one another. A couple rinses with boiling water, added to container, stirred (remember to rinse foils that stick to stir rod back into container with distilled water, if you have hard water - otherwise, tap water is fine) & decanted, helps get rid of residue. Check the "Solubility Chart" to check for base metals from your specific feedstock. Don't worry about getting all the acid, as you're going to be using HCl in the next step, anyway.

I would rinse with HCl as lazersteve shows in his video, then dissolve with HCl-Cl, using tiny additions of Cl & thorough stirring (or "sloshing" - the thin foils stick to everything, even stir rod). Allow this to settle (I try overnight) - there will likely be tiny particles of contaminants not readily visible, but which will agglomerate on the bottom eventually. Filter, then re-filter thru same filter (the particles clogging some of the pores will help trap all particulate matter. Any plastic residues will also be trapped in the filter in this stage. Rinse filter with _trickled_ water - a spray bottle jet will force particulate matter thru the filter. 

Try to get as much AuCl as you can, because we're guessing on actual totals. At home, I would just do a reasonable job of rinsing, then save the filter for later processing. If you let solution sit open overnight, there shouldn't be any free Cl, but you can heat as Oz suggested earlier, if you want to make sure. I usually do & almost always notice a color shift like that that occurs as free Cl is expelled. (Belt AND braces! 8) )

Add your SMB incrementally, stirring thoroughly & vigorously for forever (it FEELS like forever!). Once you get complete precipitation (overnight is good to make sure you get colloidal Au), rinse well to get rid of SMB traces (boiling water as above). 

For purest Au, re-dissolve & precipitate. However, even at this stage, your product will be PDP (Pretty D**n Pure).

just my dos centavos.
dtectr


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## Anonymous

joem said:


> Please guide humble 'ol me.
> 
> ps keep in mind Nitric is not an option for meAlright great minds of the forum.
> This is where I will need the most help.
> Please guide humble 'ol me.
> ps keep in mind Nitric is not an option for me





Harold_V said:


> I expect my method will not be popular with many. For me, there was no other way.


This is a proven tried and true method.....however,if you do not have the means to incinerate,there is a process you can use that will give you very good gold,and it is quite easy once you get used to doing it.
Under a fume hood,or in a well ventilated area:
1: Dissolve all of your foils/powder in AC.
2: Filter through a funnel plug filter
3: Heat the solution just below a boil for a minute or two
4: Add 1/3rd water and precipitate
5: Repeat 2-3 times.

There are a couple of things to remember when doing this process
First, after the solution has finished filtering,make sure and add water to the funnel until it drips perfectly white on the bottom.This will ensure that the auric chloride that was left in the filter has been washed out.
Second, if you use ferrous sulfate/copperas to precipitate,you do not need to add water to your auric chloride(because you will add it to the copperas),but you will need to filter the copperas through a coffee filter or let it set several minutes before adding to the auric chloride.If you do opt to let it settle,make sure you stop pouring before the solids on the bottom are poured out.
After adding the copperas stir,stir,stir!You don't have to stir fast,but you do need to stir a lot,especially for the first batch.After you have reddisolved a couple of times,the gold wants to agglomerate faster and hence creates larger pieces of clumps that fall out of suspension very fast.And as always,wash your gold in water,when you are done,this will help rid it of any excess chlorides,and help it agglomerate even more.


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## joem

All cleaned up and dissolved
Sitting in the sun in an old black roasting pan to increase heat and evaporate chlorine. 
So ways of dropping gold ( I only have SMB) do I dilute the Aucl3 with water first, dilute and mix smb then add to diluted or undiluted Aucl3?
:?:


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## Barren Realms 007

Put you a couple cups of ice in the solution and stir till it is almost gone then add your required SMB either added to water or as a powder. Then put you solution in the sun to warm up so the powder will settle faster. Don't for get to filter your solution thru a filter with some ice.


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## dtectr

you may have some residual copper in that batch. Looks good, though. 8)


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## joem

dtectr said:


> you may have some residual copper in that batch. Looks good, though. 8)


It's much more yellow than green. my camera does not do it justce.


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## dtectr

it'll do fine - after gold drops, you'll likely be left with a bluish solution. If you do the HCl washes or re-dissolve/precip you can get the last of the residuals.


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## joem

This drop was incredible. It turned black very fast and the drop came down fast.


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## goldenchild

joem said:


> This drop was incredible. It turned black very fast and the drop came down fast.



Contgrats. The quick change and drop means there is a respectable amount of gold in there. Just one thing... Don't put your vessel on the deck like that!!!


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## joem

goldenchild said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> This drop was incredible. It turned black very fast and the drop came down fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contgrats. The quick change and drop means there is a respectable amount of gold in there. Just one thing... Don't put your vessel on the deck like that!!!
Click to expand...


thanks, and yes sir. it was just for a picture and better light. The vessel is in the house at my bubbler for some vibrating action over night.

btw smb in aucl3 is a smell I truely dislike


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## goldenchild

:lol: Good job sir.


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## Harold_V

joem said:


> btw smb in aucl3 is a smell I truely dislike


I grew up in a smelter town (Midvale, Utah) where that smell (sulfur dioxide) was routine. Imagine the joy of the residents (that didn't work there) when the smelter closed its doors for keeps, back in the '58. In spite of the smoke stack, which exceeded 500' in height, the smell hung in the air almost daily. Only a breeze from the south provided fresh air. 

Harold


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## stihl88

Yeah i loathe the smell, it is so pungent you can feel it ripping your lungs out as you run from the bench.


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## Harold_V

stihl88 said:


> Yeah i loathe the smell, it is so pungent you can feel it ripping your lungs out as you run from the bench.


I did all of my precipitating in the mouth of my fume hood. Only rarely would I experience a whiff, usually in handling solutions after the gold had settled. 

I know of no one that can tolerate the stuff. I expect that it combines with water in tissue to form sulfuric acid. 

Or not! 

Harold


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## Sodbuster

Not to hijack this thread, but I have an old SMB solution used a year or so ago to drop my gold. 
That solution after sitting around in a container for that length of time did continue to drop some additional gold. Just a very lite dusting on the bottom of the jug. 

What I was wondering is because it still to this day has that strong sulfur dioxide stench, could it be used for another drop, or would the SMB have a shelf life (having been dissolved a year ago) that would render it ineffective?

My thinking is to kill two birds with one stone. I could recycle the solution into my next drop or drops and I could recover that remaining dust off the bottom of the jug into my next drop.

Someone tell me if I need to adjust my thoughts, as I'm sure I haven't thought of everything.

Thanks

Ray


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## joem

Question: what impurities does boiling the dropped powder in water remove?


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## dtectr

According to the attached pdf chart which I found here on the forum somewhere, everything but silver, chromium, & mercury (let's hope those last 2 aren't an issue with your feedstock :shock: )View attachment SolChart.pdf


However, according to the good Dr. from Costa Rica (Sorry, i honestly can't remember his name  ), lead chloride is insoluble in water. However, we use a boiling water rinse to remove it, according to directions here on the forum, so I'm not sure, now. The text is copied from his website.


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## goldsilverpro

According to the CRC Handbook, the solubility of PbCl2 in water is about 10 g/l at 20C and 33 g/l at 100C.


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## joem

Checked the left over SMB mix - shows no colour change (see pic)
Another question: After washing 3 times with boiling water the powder is reddish colour, why is this?


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## dtectr

IMHO, if reddish-_brown_, as in rust or cinnamon color, that means the gold is PDP (Pretty D**n Pure).


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## Harold_V

joem said:


> Checked the left over SMB mix - shows no colour change (see pic)
> Another question: After washing 3 times with boiling water the powder is reddish colour, why is this?


I'm not convinced it's because of purity, although it may well be. In my experience, and I precipitated one hell of a lot of gold----when it is quite pure the color is a pale cinnamon. Bear in mind, that may be due to the method I used for precipitation, and it may not reflect purity for other methods. 

A good way to find out is to wash the gold in HCl. There is no question---it removes traces of contamination that come down with the gold----the question is---does water, alone, do the same thing? I'm inclined to think not, but this would be a good way to find out. If the solution changes color, or the color of the gold shifts, you are making a change of sorts---and you may be able to determine what is changing. 

Some have shown concern for the HCl dissolving gold. I can say with certainty, if you wash your gold by taking the solution to a boil, none dissolves. That was my routine for years. I even used chlorinated tap water and had no problems with dissolution. I expect the fact that the solution was heated rapidly resulted in the rapid evaporation of chlorine. Do test the solution with stannous chloride if you have any doubts. Remember---unless you discard the solution, even if it has some values contained within, they're not lost. 

Harold


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## joem

here is my oven/furnace
I was lucky two weeks ago someone had free fire bricks to give away,
Already had a roll of blanket and just bought some big hose clamps and the higher sides give me a bit of wind break.
oh and it fits Steve's dish nicely.


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## element47

I like that. Clever way to hold your bricks together into a furnace.


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## husker4515

Joem, Any updates on total yeilds? 8)


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## joem

husker4515 said:


> Joem, Any updates on total yeilds? 8)


In between rain, advertising, and pick ups, and tear downs, I've had little chance to melt yet. But I will soon.


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## joem

Ok so all my scrap has been processed and I'm back to my gold recovery. 

1. Since an earlier post, the Acid peroxide has been sitting with a big chunk of copper in it to drop any suspended gold particles. I now have a mason jar with about a 1/16ish layer of black. 
Should I melt this when dry or should I dissove in Hcl and bleach then drop?

2. I have a bunch of filters with tints of grey. I have bought a good used stainless pan, but how do I incinerate without it blowing away ( floating away).

3. Once incinerated, do I dissove in Hcl and bleach then drop or is there something I am missing here. 

as always with love 
joe


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## glondor

From what I understand Joem you heat the pan from the bottom with a torch. Some others say to douse in alcohol and ignite that. Sounds like you are going for total recovery before melting your button. Keeping everyone in suspense eh? lol. Anxious to see your results. Good luck!


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## joem

glondor said:


> From what I understand Joem you heat the pan from the bottom with a torch. Some others say to douse in alcohol and ignite that. Sounds like you are going for total recovery before melting your button. Keeping everyone in suspense eh? lol. Anxious to see your results. Good luck!



that's exactly what I am doing, and I am kept in suspense too. lol


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## glondor

Hey Joem,....................................................................................Did you melt yet?


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## joem

Alright, no, I did not give up.
Here is the melt from this part of the powders
Pictures removed to prevent theft
I still have all the filters to recover gold from
and about 3 inches of aucl in a mason jar to finish.
It took over an hour to melt with a propane torch.
added after: the look of the dish after melting - there are still tiny balls of gold stuck in the flux (borax). Will they re-melt in the next batch?


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## Barren Realms 007

That looks nice, you are making headway. Congrats.

Get you a mapp gas tourch, the fuel you will save will pay for itself.


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## Claudie

Reheat the melting dish, adding pinches of Soda Ash until it liquefies the Borax glazing. The Gold beads should pool together in the Soda Ash. Let the dish cool and wash with water, being very careful not to wash the Gold away. It should all be in one bead. Remember to start at the edge of the dish and work it all towards the center. I don't know if there is a better way of doing this or not, this way worked for me. :|


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## Harold_V

joem said:


> the look of the dish after melting - there are still tiny balls of gold stuck in the flux (borax). Will they re-melt in the next batch?


It was my routine to pick up the melting dish and gently swirl the puddle of molten gold around the dish, picking up the stray beads. Do note that I always used an asbestos glove. I also used a heat source that rapidly melted gold. 

While the addition of soda ash will help them gather, I tend to recommend against that idea. My experience in cleaning melting dishes using soda ash lead me to believe that some of the contamination present in the flux is reduced and collected by the gold. Not a problem if you intend to re-refine the recovered bits, but a sure way to contaminate pure gold if you do not. I highly recommend against anything but a trace of borax when melting, and never mixed with the gold powder. Sprinkle it gently on the molten gold and dish if you must. Otherwise, rely on the properly seasoned and coated dish to provide all you need. 

Harold


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## joem

> It was my routine to pick up the melting dish and gently swirl the puddle of molten gold around the dish, picking up the stray beads. Do note that I always used an asbestos glove. I also used a heat source that rapidly melted gold.



Thanks Harold
I did swirl it around to catch small bits but I realized my heat source was not hot enough compared to the amount of gold powder once I started. So will the beads melt in the next run if I up my heat source or once the flux cools does it stay solid?


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## glondor

They will melt Joem. It is hard to collect them with a cold melt tho.


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## Harold_V

Yep! What glondor said. 
No offense meant for anyone that uses less than an oxy/acet or natural gas torch, but you're kidding yourself if you are. If you're serious about refining, invest in a decent torch. I could melt upwards of five ounces troy of gold powder in something like a couple minutes. Actually a lot faster but I had to feather the flame until the surface had melted, otherwise I'd blow the gold out of the dish. I melted four hundred ounces in one afternoon that way, and poured the shot in the process. Adequate heat isn't a luxury, it's a requirement. 

Harold


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## joem

> Adequate heat isn't a luxury, it's a requirement.



Yes I could see that now. Small ( a few grams) beads, small torches work but in this case I can see bigger (er hum) is better. 
I will wait until I can pick up a hotter hand held torch to melt the rest along with this button to get a final weight.


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## wrecker45

i use oxy/propane with a rose bud tip. works great...Jim


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## goldenchild

The torches you keep around are a matter of convenience. I like to keep a couple of MAPP gas torches on hand even though I have a oxy/acet rig. It's good for small quick jobs where you don't want to have to drag the rig around and then have to mess with regulating the fuels and so on. Let's not forget that the small MAPP gas torches are also great for incineration. Of course, when melting Pt metal groups you will need some kind of O2 rig.


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## trashmaster

Hi Joe.

Congrats on the new born,,,, and have you picked out a name yet.????????? :lol: :lol:


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## joem

I'm back at it.
The last two pieces of this attempt.
A large mason jar of undilutted Aucl from leftover powder dissolved and incinerated filter papers, also copper loaded A/P (powders dropped to bottom when copper was soaking for quite awhile)


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## joem

Well I finally finished the rest of the process, along with the 5.2 gram button pictured above I recovered another 4.7 grams of gold ( I don't have a picture because I dropped my camera and broke the lens) for a total of 9.9 grams.
A lower yeild than expected but hey gold is gold and it was a hell of a lot of fun.
And the winner of this ( loooong running ) competition is.......

goldenchild with a guess of 10.21
pm me with your address and I send out your package


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## Claudie

So 9.9 grams of Gold from approximately 6 pounds of material. Well done Joem! :lol:


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## joem

Golden child 
did you get my package?


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## yvonbug

I've read this whole thread and really enjoyed it. The project, the pics, the feedback, the teaching, the learning... it was great! Thanks guys! Yvonbug


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## malfeces

Great thread!!! I love your set up! having a hard time finding some things though. My set up is very....VERY basic, but is working none the less. Thanks for the great thread!!


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## GotTheBug

In my persistent, annoying self habit of overdoing, I added tooooooo much peroxide, concentrated at that.
Guess what, that amount of chlorine? does interesting things to the plastic holding the pins, like melt it into
a nice gooey ball. It DID remove the gold at least, what little would have been in the batch I ran. My profile pic
should be representative of the result, LO darnit L. Now I have an interesting greenish blue color to the solvent.
Any way to recover the HCl / H2O2 from this mess? Or should I neutralize it and start over? I'm pretty certain
there is some gold, and probably silver by the bluish color, in solution, just not sure if the amount warrants trying
to save.
Ideas anyone?
Thank You for you input, and let the flames begin, as I well deserve them.


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## joem

This is above my problem solving skill set. I think any peroxide above 3% is overkill. I only buy 3% in my attempts I hope my attempt will guide you right next time.


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## maynman1751

Are all of the metals dissolved completely? If so, decant the solution, rinse the solids and add the rinse to the decanted solution and cement any values with copper (plate or buss bar). Don't throw anything away yet.


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## grfphil

That's great! Looks nice, how much did you end up with exactly? Good deal!


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## joem

I don't remember, I think it's somewhere in this thread. It's lower than others since I was a newbie (sort of) when I started this thread.


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