# CW Ammen Recovery And Refining Of Precious Metals remastered



## Kats12 (Aug 15, 2011)

Hi all
I remastered the book to be print friendly.
here is the link
deleted (Harold)
The book is now in pdf format, and the background of text is white so the consumption of ink should be normal...
I think it is automatically putted in landscape position in adobe acorbat , but you all should check that.
It is zipped in 7z format ,and the size of 7z archive is around 60mb.

Have happy printing and reading of this excellent book

Kats

Pdf is in my second post here


----------



## 4metals (Aug 16, 2011)

Just spent a half hour downloading this and got hexadecimal jumbles. Has anyone had this download work?


----------



## jimdoc (Aug 16, 2011)

I tried it with Ubuntu, and it wouldn't unzip.

Jim


----------



## NoIdea (Aug 16, 2011)

Yup i tried and got it, sorry it's really not worth downloading, too much missing an a few too many assumptions.

Just my opinion

Deano


----------



## Kats12 (Aug 16, 2011)

Hmm its 7z , try using power archiver to unzip it. the pdf is 116mb...
Ill put original pdf also..this time on fileserve, it is fast in my country.
Could You Deano elaborate, it seems that all pages are present, i don't get it what is missing?
I remastered the book in djvu format found here on forum...
pdf: 
deleted (Harold)

I printed it and it is fine to me... I mean the book , some parts of knowledge in it is incomplete...that is true...
but it is a good starting book...

well have fun all

Kats


----------



## rusty (Aug 16, 2011)

This was also converted from DJVU using an OCR application the pdf file is only 6.6 megs,

I left out the front cover and cleaned up the images.

Removed the file, book is still covered by copyright.

Rusty


----------



## Kats12 (Aug 16, 2011)

Its nice , I also considered using OCR - Abby fine reader 9.0
But it is a pain to clear it up, and the 2 pages together is the best way of saving paper so I let it alone...
well you could post it before,so that I would save some time... 
because when i downloaded original i decided to clear it up so that I could print it so...and decide it to share it with you.
And yes some nice soul that bought 2 edition of Ammen might be nice and scan it ...hopefully... :lol: 

Have fun all

Kats


----------



## NoIdea (Aug 16, 2011)

Morning All – I would like to retract my last statement regarding this book, I apologies profusely.  

I must have opened the wrong file, this one looks OK, I need to sit down and read it through before I comment again. :lol: 

Again - Sorry Rusty.

Deano


----------



## rusty (Aug 16, 2011)

Kats12 said:


> Its nice , I also considered using OCR - Abby fine reader 9.0
> 
> Kats




Abby is a nifty optical character reader application, people have no idea the time it takes to proof and clean up a 300+ page book, I have a thing for old tractor and equipment manuals, I archive everyone I get my hands on using OCR during the long winter months.

Regards
Rusty


----------



## sena (Oct 27, 2011)

goldsilverpro said:


> I downloaded it with no problems and used UnRar to unzip it. Worked fine. I just didn't care for the side-by-side pages.
> 
> Here's an 8 meg pdf that I once converted from the DJVU file that was floating around. I don't know how printable it is - possibly not great. It is single pages.
> 
> Anyone have the 2nd edition?



I got it yesterday , its good with pictures ...but its seems to be a replica of the earlier one ....


----------



## dtectr (Oct 28, 2011)

deano
Ammen surpasses Hoke in that he stresses intimate understanding of chemical processes, explaining them in detail, also using familiarization.
I printed mine, finally, 3 hole punched it, and used extra margins for my notes.
Just my dos centavos


----------



## Harold_V (Oct 29, 2011)

I'm concerned about the posting of this work, which is most assuredly copyrighted. That puts Noxx in a very bad position. Have the moderators that have read and commented given that any thought? 

I deleted the first posting to protect him from legal issues. I'm puzzled why it has been replaced with yet another. 

Harold


----------



## 4metals (Oct 29, 2011)

Unfortunately I hadn't given it any thought yet I think you are 100% correct Harold, I went to my bookshelf and took out my copy of the book and it is indeed copyrighted.


----------



## Harold_V (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks, 4metals.

Moderators should be quick to delete anything that is at risk of violation of the copyright laws. Anything posted that is in violation puts Noxx at risk of legal trouble, and also threatens the existence of this forum. 

Harold


----------



## kadriver (Oct 31, 2011)

I did not download this book. But I did download Hoke's Refining Precious Metals Wastes from this forum.

For my own information, what is the difference between these two downloads with respect to copyright and legal issues.

Is Hoke's book part of public domain and therefore not subject to copyright laws?

Or, was Hoke's book never copyrighted?

I am not questioning whether or not these books should or should not be posted on this forum. I just want to know for my own education what the difference is.

Also, can anyone comment or give a brief review of CW Ammen's book? Is it written for the novice like Hoke? Or is it graduate level and technical in nature?

I value Hoke's book because it is written so that almost anyone can understand it. And it has minimal technical jargon.

Thank You - kadriver


----------



## dtectr (Oct 31, 2011)

kadriver said:


> I did not download this book. But I did download Hoke's Refining Precious Metals Wastes from this forum.
> 
> For my own information, what is the difference between these two downloads with respect to copyright and legal issues.
> 
> ...


This touches on the issue I wondered about - copyright laws in an international forum. 

A serious collector of historical music gems could find a plethora ("Would you say, el Jefe, that I have a _plethora_ of pinatas?" {obscure "Three Amigos" movie reference}) copies of sessions, tracks, & etc., of material from _German _producers/distributors (I remember barely, and possibly, inaccurately - "Bear Records"), but available, legally, by mail or i-net.

Should the diehard collector buy them, or not? I would bet you U.S dollars to Dutch donuts, that there are some here that have bought such recordings (not _*me *_- not because I'm that righteous, but because I never have the money at the right time  )

Is this a matter of *"Governing Law"* (a sales tax issues in the United States for internet purchases, as well as some other business, confusingly tied to "residence of record" [is that the correct expression?], an issue I am not very familiar with) or is it governed by the laws of _poster_, or _downloader_, or _Big __Brother _ 8) , [you see where I'm going with this]?

I don't believe we should steal from anyone, but on the other hand, we should be careful about judging too harshly ones who have live and submit to laws different than our own.

I'm just saying ...


----------



## Harold_V (Oct 31, 2011)

To be perfectly clear------I'm not trying to pass any moral judgments in my position on copyright. What I am trying to do is prevent a lawsuit for our founder. What you guys do is your business---just don't shift responsibility to Noxx. Do what ever it is that you feel you must do, but don't do it on the forum. 

Harold


----------



## kadriver (Oct 31, 2011)

Harold, I agree with you. I do not want to have anything to do with improperly gotten goods - no matter how much I can save doing it.

Not because I am righteous, but because I can sleep better at night.

I personally support you in this matter and am glad that you did what you did. I also commend you for exercising proper use of your authority as a moderator. 

You set a good example for the rest of us.

kadriver


----------



## eeTHr (Oct 31, 2011)

It would appear that the copyright on the Hoke book has expired, but on the Ammen book it is still in effect.

But I'm not an expert on copyrights, so did I assume correctly?


----------



## Harold_V (Oct 31, 2011)

Thank you! 

I have a job to do here, and I do it. When I don't do it, I should be replaced by someone that will. 

Harold


----------



## eeTHr (Nov 1, 2011)

:lol: 


I don't think you need replacing, Harold!

It's just that it looked to me that some people didn't realize that copyrights do expire, so I thought I would throw that out there. I also know that they changed the duration of them, some time ago, but I don't remember how long they last these days. They have different durations for certain circumstances now, too.

But that's the general idea, anyway.


----------



## Harold_V (Nov 1, 2011)

eeTHr said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> I don't think you need replacing, Harold!



Thanks. 8) 



> It's just that it looked to me that some people didn't realize that copyrights do expire, so I thought I would throw that out there. I also know that they changed the duration of them, some time ago, but I don't remember how long they last these days. They have different durations for certain circumstances now, too.
> 
> But that's the general idea, anyway.


I agree, and assume that's the reason Hoke's book has been reprinted. It's quite different with Ammen, who died just recently. I fully expect his book is still covered by copyright, with his heirs possibly willing to extract a pound of flesh from anyone that interrupts potential sales of the book. Can't say as though I'd blame them----the download has the potential to destroy future sales. 

On the subject of Hoke's book, has anyone besides me discovered that there is virtually NO information available on the Hoke family? For such prominent people, they have, for all practical purposes, evaporated. That leads me to believe that her book is free for the taking. I have no way of knowing for sure. 

Those of you that have a reprint--is there a copyright notice anywhere in the book? While I have had one in my hands, it was many years ago, and that wasn't a concern, so I didn't take notice. 

Harold


----------



## nickvc (Nov 1, 2011)

Harold regardless of the legality of this I feel its more a moral issue. We wish to be seen as an honest, upstanding and respected forum in a world full of shysters and conmen,especially common in the world of precious metals and by breaking copyright laws we will all be damned. While I'm sure no malice or intent to defraud was meant by the offer of a free download of this very useful book it could from the outside world be seen as just that, we all need to be aware that Noxx will ultimately be held responsible for any wrong doing intentional or not and the future of this unique place on the Internet will be put in the jeopardy.

As to the Hoke family I think they would be highly pleased at the legacy left by that book and it's expanding readership and rebirth courtesy of the forum.


----------



## Harold_V (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks for your very welcome comments, Nick. I share your views. All of us must put forth the effort to reinforce the idea that we stand for order, that we're not a bunch of renegades. 

Harold


----------



## nickvc (Nov 1, 2011)

Harold your welcome.
I feel we all need to make it plainly obvious that this forum is an open book. I have no doubt that this forum is under the eye of many government agencies,covert and open, in many countries, due to the commodities we deal in and the chemicals we use to achieve our goals. If you want unwelcome attention there are words and phrases which typed in to phones and the Internet that will trigger alarms, because of the state of the world we all live in, and I'm fairly sure some of the ones we commonly use here on the forum are some of them. For the forum to survive and prosper we need to be whiter than white, honest, open and responsible so the eye just skims over us and focuses on the real problems out in the world.


----------



## Harold_V (Nov 1, 2011)

Words of truth, in spite of sounding absurd. It is very important that we portray ourselves as the responsible people we are. Virtually ALL communication is now monitored by one means or another. The ability of big brother to oversee what transpires is truly frightening-----we can run---but we can not hide. 

Harold


----------



## Palladium (Nov 2, 2011)

Harold if you will look in this thread it has some info I dug up on the family. How much aqua regia per oz of plated scrap jewelry? Remember her father invented the Hoke torch. Well I also found some connection with the Morrison photo studio in Chicago. I often wondered if the families interest to chemistry somehow found it’s roots in the photography business or vice versa. I can’t remember all the connections but I remember if you read the links listed it will start on a trail. You have to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Sorry I can’t remember how it all went. Follow the names.


----------



## Harold_V (Nov 2, 2011)

Palladium said:


> Harold if you will look in this thread it has some info I dug up on the family. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8208&hilit=hoke+family#p79118 Remember her father invented the Hoke torch. Well I also found some connection with the Morrison photo studio in Chicago. I often wondered if the families interest to chemistry somehow found it’s roots in the photography business or vice versa. I can’t remember all the connections but I remember if you read the links listed it will start on a trail. You have to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Sorry I can’t remember how it all went. Follow the names.


Thanks, Ralph. I was aware of her father's accomplishments. 

I just reviewed the links, which, more or less, supports my thoughts that there's not a great deal known about these people. No mention of family beyond them. 

I failed to make a connection with the Morrison photo study and Calm. Did I miss something, or is it just a coincidence that the studio shared her name?

Harold


----------



## Palladium (Nov 2, 2011)

I think the connection is with the bible. If I remember correct the bible came from the Morrison photo studio, was found there or something that connected it with the photo studio. The guy from the photo studio is listed in the bible along with c.m. Hoke and some of the other family members. I assumed by the guy being listed in the bible and the photo studio bearing the Hoke name that the family is all connect in some way.


----------



## Harold_V (Nov 2, 2011)

Oh, yeah! I recall that now that you make mention. 
As an aside, recently I noticed there was a Hoke name somewhere here in Western Washington. Can't recall the details now, but I should have followed through to determine if there was a connection. Should I encounter the name again, I will do so. 

Harold


----------



## kadriver (Nov 3, 2011)

Harold:

I just received a new reprint of C.M. Hoke's book; Refining Precious Metal Wastes.

Here is what is on the page that usually has the copyright information:




ORIGINAL COPYRIGHT
1940 C. M. HOKE

REPRINTED 1982
REPRINTED 2003
BY
Met-Chem Research
P.O. Box 67347
Albuquerque, New Mexico 87193-7347 USA

ISBN 0-931913-22-5

MANUFACTURED IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA




Due to my lack of literary education, I can't tell from this information if the book is still copyrighted or not.

kadriver


----------



## Harold_V (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks. 
It is my opinion that the book is not covered by copyright. I would expect it would have stated so were that the case, as it was for Ms. Hoke. 

Harold


----------



## Geo (Nov 4, 2011)

ok, for the sake of argument and me playing the devils advocate.if Kats12 were to have said "anyone thats interested in a download copy of book XXX send me a PM and i will Email it to you" would that have put the weight of the law squarely on Kats12 shoulders or would the forum still carry some of that burden?


----------



## Harold_V (Nov 4, 2011)

I think that requires the opinion of someone well versed in law. Sort of reminds me of being the driver in a robbery. Not involved in the robbery, yet still involved in the crime. 

Harold


----------



## niteliteone (Nov 4, 2011)

My opinion only :shock: 
To openly allow advertising of an unlawful activity, even tough the activity takes place off forum, is still taking part in that unlawful activity.
Tom C.


----------



## butcher (Nov 4, 2011)

The book is well worth its price, the risk of loss of freedom is not worth any price.

We are free on this forum to discuss refining lets keep it. just buy the book refine your metals to pay for it.


----------



## nickvc (Nov 4, 2011)

Geo said:


> ok, for the sake of argument and me playing the devils advocate.if Kats12 were to have said "anyone thats interested in a download copy of book XXX send me a PM and i will Email it to you" would that have put the weight of the law squarely on Kats12 shoulders or would the forum still carry some of that burden?



Maybe aiding and abetting as it's called over here! If I interpret the laws correctly anyone can make a single copy of anything but to sell or reproduce that again infringes the laws that cover copyright.

As I stated earlier I'm sure there was no intention to break the law by Kats but as I also posted let's not give the authorities any reason to be even more watchful of the forum in general, I'm fairly sure we are in their sights but left alone because of the stance we take in regards to behaving within the law and acting responsibly with our chemicals.
If members wish to indulge in any doubtful or possibly illegal activities do it off the forum and then there's not a problem for the rest of the members or it's owner.


----------



## Geo (Nov 4, 2011)

of coarse im speaking hypothetically, i do not advocate theft of any kind and will not be a part of it.i was just asking for clarification purposes.


----------



## Harold_V (Nov 4, 2011)

nickvc said:


> If members wish to indulge in any doubtful or possibly illegal activities do it off the forum and then there's not a problem for the rest of the members or it's owner.


That's the point I've tried to stress---one that I have promoted right along. Some get it---some don't. One of our readers, eventually banned, encouraged tax evasion. In his mind, he was doing the noble and just thing to do---ignore tax laws, which he found unconstitutional. Whether he was right or wrong isn't the point. No amount of discussion would have him understand that we can't wave the red flag in the face of the bull here---there is little doubt in our minds that this forum is monitored for activities of all sorts. We must be, and remain, vigilant to ensure that we are not perceived as promoting and/or endorsing any activity that can be deemed illegal. 

Let it be noted that I do not pretend to be the moral compass of the board. What I do pretend to be is a moderator who is trying to protect the owner of the board against problems that are not of his making. 

Harold


----------



## dtectr (Nov 4, 2011)

After 70 years a copyrighted publication becomes "public domain" unless the copyright is renewed. 
Since we have used Ammen's name about 50 times in this discussion and I am sure the bots found every one, maybe its a good time to drop this with a "lesson learned" and stop drawing even more attention to ourselves.
An old horse wont get any deader by continuing to whip it! 8)


----------



## rusty (Nov 4, 2011)

Money well spent.

Ammens 2nd Ed Avaialble Here

My C.W. Ammen "Recovery an Refining of Precious Metals" 2nd edition arrived this morning, for those of you that would like to purchase this hard to find book you may order direct from the Publisher and Copyright holder in Alberta, Canada.

The telephone number for Michelle at Deep Rock Resources is 1 780 454 3879, the cost is $69.95 with $14.95 S/H in USD.

For those wishing to mail in their payment the address is:

Deep Rock Resources inc.
P.O. Box 388, St Albert Alberta
T8N7A2

Michelle's husband knew Mr. C.W. Ammen as a personal friend, and have been informed that Mr. C. W. ( Bill ) Ammen passed away May 30/2011
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/gazette/obituary.aspx?n=charles-william-ammen&pid=151483712


Regards
Rusty


----------



## Palladium (Nov 4, 2011)

I’m all for leaving information but given the content of this thread I could just as easily see it disappearing from existence. Poof !!! There is like at least 5 delete buttons running around out there?


----------



## rusty (Sep 21, 2013)

rusty said:


> Money well spent.
> 
> Ammens 2nd Ed Avaialble Here
> 
> ...



Heads Up - The owner of the copyright for Ammen's book " Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals " will not have more printed after the last ten copies in inventory this date 9/21/2013 have been sold.


----------



## RikkiRicardo (Sep 21, 2013)

Rusty
nowhere in the publishers site says this so if you are getting your info from Ebay better do more searches
I would like to know where you got this info also does not mean that they lost there copyrights this you will have to see when that expires

http://www.springer.com/?SGWID=0-102-24-0-0&searchType=EASY_CDA&queryText=The+Recovery+and+Refining+of+Precious+Metals

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Recovery-and-Refining-Precious-Metals-Mining-/271129534137?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3f20945eb9

please show me where you got this info ????

RikkiRicardo


----------



## rusty (Sep 21, 2013)

RikkiRicardo said:


> Rusty
> nowhere in the publishers site says this so if you are getting your info from Ebay better do more searches
> I would like to know where you got this info also does not mean that they lost there copyrights this you will have to see when that expires
> 
> ...



Well there you have it, the information on that ebay ad mirrors the information I gave the book is going out of print.

FYI - my information cam directly from the owner of the copyright.


----------



## AndyWilliams (Sep 21, 2013)

rusty said:


> Heads Up - The owner of the copyright for Ammen's book " Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals " will not have more printed after the last ten copies in inventory this date 9/21/2013 have been sold.



Rusty, is there a website for Deep Rock? I'd like to get a copy, but my search functions keep taking me to Time Warner's search page, and it's absolutely useless.


----------



## rusty (Sep 21, 2013)

AndyWilliams said:


> rusty said:
> 
> 
> > Heads Up - The owner of the copyright for Ammen's book " Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals " will not have more printed after the last ten copies in inventory this date 9/21/2013 have been sold.
> ...



Website for Deeprock no longer functional, you may order from this telephone number.


The telephone number for Michelle at Deep Rock Resources is 1 780 454 3879, the cost is $69.95 with $14.95 S/H in USD.

For those wishing to mail in their payment the address is:

Deep Rock Resources inc.
P.O. Box 388, St Albert Alberta
T8N7A2

Since they only have about ten copy's left in inventory i would suggest making your order by telephone even if its just tp reserve a copy while your payment is in transit.

This is not to say that there are no other sources of the book, once their inventory has been depleted thats it there will not be another print run.


----------



## rusty (Sep 21, 2013)

RikkiRicardo said:


> Rusty
> nowhere in the publishers site says this so if you are getting your info from Ebay better do more searches
> I would like to know where you got this info also does not mean that they lost there copyrights this you will have to see when that expires
> 
> ...




Without being antagonistic in my reply, this should satisfy you.

Gill,

As the Copyright Owner of "Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals" I have considered your request and am hereby advising that I will not give you permission to reproduce in any form or by any means, graphic, electronic, or mechanical, including photocopying, scanning, recording, tape recording, or information storage and retrieval systems, any part of the book "Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals" Authored by C.W. Ammen.

Thank you for your request and honesty in asking for permission.

Best regards,

Garth Muran
President - Deep Rock Resources Inc.


----------



## RikkiRicardo (Sep 21, 2013)

Rusty
I will be antagonistic go and play in your other yard and stop posting garbage
get your facts straight so you posted garbage if you are going to post
Post facts that are true please stop with your games
I still wonder why are you still here have you asked yourself 
this will be my last reply to you.
when Harold stated that he does everything by the book this is the way the forum will stay
if you what to do it your board do it we are not fools to listen with out the facts 
i give your forum months before it crashes good luck but stop interrupting this forum

RikkiRicardo


----------



## RikkiRicardo (Sep 21, 2013)

sorry for the wording but very late over here
just hope everyone know who is try to interrupter the forum
there is a group and all will come out as it has been

RikkiRicardo


----------



## rusty (Sep 21, 2013)

RikkiRicardo said:


> Rusty
> I will be antagonistic go and play in your other yard and stop posting garbage
> get your facts straight so you posted garbage if you are going to post
> Post facts that are true please stop with your games
> ...




I gave you my source of information, obviously this did not satisfy your need to try and provoke me.

In case you overlooked it the first time, 

Gill,

As the Copyright Owner of "Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals" I have considered your request and am hereby advising that I will not give you permission to reproduce in any form or by any means, graphic, electronic, or mechanical, including photocopying, scanning, recording, tape recording, or information storage and retrieval systems, any part of the book "Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals" Authored by C.W. Ammen.

Thank you for your request and honesty in asking for permission.

Best regards,

Garth Muran
President - Deep Rock Resources Inc.


----------



## RikkiRicardo (Sep 21, 2013)

Rusty show me that they are the copyright owners facts
i did searches what you are showing is garbage from my searches. Show me facts

Rikkiricardo


----------



## Harold_V (Sep 21, 2013)

My chief concern in this matter is how good and valuable information may be stolen from this forum, posted on the new one, founded by one of our readers. To that end, I have kept close watch on that board, to see what gets stolen and posted. That's a practice I hope to continue, and will encourage legal action against the ownership of the board should we discover we have been betrayed. Whether we prevailed in court,or not, the financial blow should be punishment enough for the theft of knowledge. 

Interestingly, the pledge to the readers of the new board was that they could post on his board without fear of threat of being banned. 

The power to dictate to readers can be intoxicating.  

Remember how there was a complaint by their founder, one of the endless threats of being banned? 

Here's his method of dealing with a subject that is a classic case of hypocrisy:




> Re: C.W. Ammens Book, Recovery and Refining
> Postby Ken_S » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:52 pm
> 
> rusty wrote:
> ...



I want readers, here, to note that it is perfectly acceptable to make mention of the book. The only restraint should be to not reproduce its contents for publication on the forum. 

It takes a great deal of restraint for a moderator to ban for the right reasons, as personal feelings must be overlooked, as they have been in my lashing out at Rusty when he was critical of our leader, Noxx. To have done so on the very forum that is owned by the leader is not acceptable, thus my comments had to be made, whether Gill and I are (make that *were*) friends, or not. 

I can not permit readers to make denigrating comments against those who have provided the very means by which the comments were made public. To have done so shows a complete lack of class. Further, to suggest that to get banned would be one's pleasure, then to return to the same forum, where it has been made perfectly clear that the readership has no value, is, once again, a classic example of hypocrisy. Make up your mind, Gill. Are you in, or are you out? If you're in, make it known publicly, and behave accordingly. If you are out, I'll fulfill your wish to be banned. I don't want you here cluttering the board with your nonsense. 

Harold


----------



## rusty (Sep 21, 2013)

Harold_V said:


> My chief concern in this matter is how good and valuable information may be stolen from this forum, posted on the new one, founded by one of our readers. To that end, I have kept close watch on that board, to see what gets stolen and posted. That's a practice I hope to continue, and will encourage legal action against the ownership of the board should we discover we have been betrayed. Whether we prevailed in court,or not, the financial blow should be punishment enough for the theft of knowledge.
> 
> Interestingly, the pledge to the readers of the new board was that they could post on his board without fear of threat of being banned.
> 
> ...



This is an easy decision, GRF for me.


----------



## rusty (Sep 21, 2013)

RikkiRicardo said:


> Rusty show me that they are the copyright owners facts
> i did searches what you are showing is garbage from my searches. Show me facts
> 
> Rikkiricardo



Here are all the details required to order Ammen's ( Recovery and Reining of Precious Metals ) second edition.


----------



## Harold_V (Sep 22, 2013)

The copyright remained with Ammen. That is clearly stated. Whether this entity has authority to reprint, or not, we can not say.

Looks like our friend RR was right. 

Harold


----------



## RikkiRicardo (Sep 22, 2013)

Thanks Harold_V
Read /Search /Experiment
this is how i learn never believe anything with out the facts
keep up the great work


RikkiRicardo


----------



## AndyWilliams (Sep 22, 2013)

Harold_V said:


> The copyright remained with Ammen. That is clearly stated. Whether this entity has authority to reprint, or not, we can not say.
> 
> Looks like our friend RR was right.
> 
> Harold



I would have to agree. CW Ammen gave them permission, not the copyright. That copyright resides with whomever it was devised to.


----------



## Palladium (Sep 22, 2013)

rusty said:


> Harold_V said:
> 
> 
> > My chief concern in this matter is how good and valuable information may be stolen from this forum, posted on the new one, founded by one of our readers. To that end, I have kept close watch on that board, to see what gets stolen and posted. That's a practice I hope to continue, and will encourage legal action against the ownership of the board should we discover we have been betrayed. Whether we prevailed in court,or not, the financial blow should be punishment enough for the theft of knowledge.
> ...



Welcome home brother! I like gill. Hell i like everybody here! 
Have you ever known a family that didn't fuss? :lol:


----------



## g_axelsson (Sep 22, 2013)

Sometimes you learn the lesson the hard way... I have looked for a pdf of Ammens book before but now when I saw that there at least existed a pdf once I renewed my search for it. After almost an hour of fruitless searching only finding excerpts and sites that wanted payment for a possible copy (didn't believe them) I finally found that there is a copy on the university only ten minutes from me.

Dohhhh.... I should have searched there at first.  

I'll borrow that book in a few days and then I can copy what I need from it. For a personal copy I'm allowed to make limited copies according to copyright regulations. The book will pass into public domain in May 30 2081 (life + 70 years) according to current copyright regulations but will probably be extended before Walt Disney loses it's copyrights.
Copying is not stealing (as told a couple of times on this thread and falsely stated by the copyright industry) just as speeding isn't stealing. Copyright is managed by it's own section in the law.
I'm going to stop here as this is close to political for me, I'm a member of the Swedish Pirate Party and reforming the copyright laws is one of our main focus points.

For those that don't want to spend the money on buying Ammens book I suggest talking to the library and make an inter library loan... I think it's called that in English.

Göran


----------



## rusty (Sep 22, 2013)

Harold_V said:


> The copyright remained with Ammen. That is clearly stated. Whether this entity has authority to reprint, or not, we can not say.
> 
> Looks like our friend RR was right.
> 
> Harold




C. W. ( Bill ) Ammen passed away May 30/2011
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/gazette/obituary.aspx?n=charles-william-ammen&pid=151483712

The last publish dates 2oo1, 2006, 2009 while Ammen was still living would more than likely add some truth that Deep Rock Resources had some connection with Ammen and did reprints of the book with the authors permission, but to claim copyright ownership was certainly misleading.

Chapman and Hall own the copyrights to this book, permission to reprint has been granted to various publishers. Thank you RR for pushing me into doing further research i have learned much from it.

I posted in good faith.

Ammen authored 12 books, many of which he did transfer the copyrights over to various publishers.http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First


Records show that Ammen transferred the copyright over to Chapman and Hall, who choose to show Ammen as the first claimant in the published book.


http://www.copyright.gov/eco/help-claimant.html

Help: Copyright Claimant

Basic Information

Please identify all known copyright claimant(s) in this work. The author is the original claimant and may always be listed as a claimant, even after the author has transferred rights in the work. The claimant may also be a person or organization to whom copyright has been legally transferred. To be named as a claimant by means of a transfer, a person or organization must own all rights under the U.S. copyright law; ownership of only some of the rights is not sufficient. In addition, a claimant must own the copyright in all of the authorship covered by this regulation.


----------



## RikkiRicardo (Sep 22, 2013)

Rusty
This is all that i ask is (facts)
I will also be doing more searches regards this matter yes it would be great to have the rights so that we could share it on the forum


RikkiRicardo


----------



## rusty (Sep 22, 2013)

RikkiRicardo said:


> Rusty
> This is all that i ask is (facts)
> I will also be doing more searches regards this matter yes it would be great to have the rights so that we could share it on the forum
> 
> ...




This is the department you'll need to obtain limited or otherwise use of copyrights Springer or her subsidiaries own. 

http://www.springer.com/rights?SGWID=0-122-12-69034-0


----------



## rusty (Sep 22, 2013)

After much research it has become evident that Springer either owns or has use of the Ammens copyright, they're planning to release an e-book of Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals very soon.

I purchased my copy of Ammen - Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals directly from Deep Rock Resources Inc in St. Albert Alberta. Who were so bold as to include their company details in several places on the book. 

I hope that I have not purchased an illegal copy of this book. :twisted: A search ofthe ISBN takes me to Springer. isbn 0 412 72060 4


----------



## sammen (Jun 26, 2014)

Wow--this is all very confusing to me! I am Sharon Ammen, CW Ammen's daughter. (Married--but did not change name!) As I understand it, my father-who died in 2011--withdrew copywright from all publishers and gave SOLE rights to Garth Muran for recovery and Refining . . . Royalties were to go to me and my brother, Charles Ammen--but I let my brother have all royalties. IF anyone else is publishing the book--they are not sending royalties to mu brother nor are they legally publishing it. Many of Daddy's other books are published by McGraw-Hill and those royalties come to me. I'm hoping to work on re-editing a few of these books. GArth and I are trying to figure out what is going on and we will let you know! GArth has authority to make all decisions concerning this book. I an at [email protected] if anyone wants to ask questions about the other books. Sharon A.


----------



## butcher (Jun 26, 2014)

sammen,
Welcome to the forum, I really like your fathers book on recovery and refining precious metals.

It is also good to have you join as a member of this forum, I would love to hear more about your father and his work, I have a million questions about Him and his work, but I will not bother you with them through Email, I just hope you share some of it with us here on the forum.


----------



## rickbb (Jun 26, 2014)

I purchased a copy of his book online last year. I will look closely at it tonight to see who the publisher is. I too hope I have not purchased an illegal copy, I had thought the site I purchased it from was a legitimate site, but nowadays who knows.


----------



## necromancer (Jun 26, 2014)

dtectr said:


> kadriver said:
> 
> 
> > I did not download this book. But I did download Hoke's Refining Precious Metals Wastes from this forum.
> ...




i don't think this is a international forum, it is in fact a canadian forum with international members.
http://www.whois.com/whois/goldrefiningforum.com

as for copyright laws who if going to do the reading ??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Act_of_Canada


----------



## necromancer (Jun 26, 2014)

and this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

""The Copyright Term Extension Act (CTEA) of 1998 extended copyright terms in the United States. Since the Copyright Act of 1976, copyright would last for the life of the author plus 50 years, or 75 years for a work of corporate authorship. The Act extended these terms to life of the author plus 70 years and for works of corporate authorship to 120 years after creation or 95 years after publication, whichever endpoint is earlier.[1] Copyright protection for works published prior to January 1, 1978, was increased by 20 years to a total of 95 years from their publication date.""

so if i am reading this right, hokes book is still copyright,
1940 + 95 = 2035, guess i need a second take on this.

if i am right there is fines + possible jail time for the owner of the web site hosting or linking to copyright items.

first link i can find to hokes book is here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2360#p20263 in 2008

maybe someone should look into this & save Noxx some cow droppings


----------



## Goldenjedi (Jan 1, 2023)

Can some pls help, I need to read amen recovery and refining precious metals and the book is expensive. I already process electronic circuits board phone to recovery gold. Could someone pls post a pdf so I could read it. It would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## stoneware (Jan 1, 2023)

Goldenjedi said:


> Can some pls help, I need to read amen recovery and refining precious metals and the book is expensive. I already process electronic circuits board phone to recovery gold. Could someone pls post a pdf so I could read it. It would be greatly appreciated.


You can purchase Ammens directly from the copyright owner Deep Rock, price is in Canadian funds.

Suggest you give them a call first.

The telephone number for Michelle at _Deep Rock Resources_ is 1 780 454 3879, the cost is $69.95 with $14.95 S/H in USD. ... P.O. Box 388, _St Albert Alberta_


For those wishing to mail in their payment the address is:
Deep Rock Resources inc.
P.O. Box 388, St Albert Alberta
T8N7A2


----------



## Goldenjedi (Jan 1, 2023)

That was quick cool better than 267


----------

