# The Official Guide On Yields Of Silver On Keyboard Mylars



## Anonymous

Hello members,

I have decided to help all of you out, mainly because I feel obligated because I made a mistake here on the forum and was redeemed to be back on the forum, and I owe *ESPECIALLY* the thanks to *Harold_V*. He talked to me through pm and he gave me his words of wisdom, and I ran with it. *Butcher* and other members confronted me with the wisdom I knew but didn't keep in practice. For that, this is what I'm going to do, I'm going to help you all at least evaluate what you have in "*desktop keyboard mylars*", as far as the the silver value.

It took some punches in the face and harsh/stern words to be said to me to realize alot. I never meant to hurt anyone , but yet I did. I'm still feeling it, but it's all good. I'll get past this and I hope you will too. Here is what I am going to do to help you, since I'm still being helped here on the forum and hopefully, you will still have faith in me to deliver what I promise I can deliver.

* I will do a "*OFFICIAL Desktop Keyboard Yield Guide*". I thought about this and this will be beneficial to everyone without me losing anything. There is not one guide on the Internet and you all will be the first to benefit form it. Below is what I will explain, so that way, if you decide to do business with me, you'll know how much silver to expect..... and even if you deal with someone else or entity, you'll know what to expect in silver, money or gold or whatever. You'll know the value of what you have and not guess on it either.

================================================

Because keyboard mylars are so complicated in appearances and value, I will *ONLY* tell you what amount of silver you can expect out of them. This guide, along with my own experience in refining them is just an estimate of their value. Remember this, there is NO REAL estimated value of keyboard mylars on the Internet. Period. I know. I'll put it here on the forum, and hopefully *Noxx* can benefit from it. Forums cost money to run and I understand it too.

In my guide, I will show you....

* pictures of the different types of desktop keyboard mylars.
* which mylars are worth more in silver value and which ones are worth less
* how many pounds of each category will yield in silver value
* how to sort the mylars if you're going to sell them
* which mylars to not accept that have little to no value
* how many categories there are to desktop mylars
* and how many mylars there are to the lb, from each category

This is just a guide I'll be doing and it is *NOT* an exact amount you should expect, but it is close to what you should get, without you doing anything but sorting them and sending them off to be paid for them.

I'm getting my notes and information together and I thought you all should know that I am working on this. 

I hope this will help the members here.


Kevin


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## glorycloud

A good gesture Kevin. I hope that it is received by all here in the spirit in which it is being given. 8)


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## rewalston

I'm looking forward to reading this.

Rusty


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## Lou

Anyone else hear some crickets?


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## Barren Realms 007

Lou said:


> Anyone else hear some crickets?



I herd a mouse squeal earlier. He hasn't been back on since yesterday.


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## necromancer

and no mention of sharing the process .....
oh well, would have made a great contribution to the forum.

from what i seen in the other posts this is "only" to gain more business, nothing about sharing. (again)


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## Anonymous

testerman said:


> Hello members,
> 
> I have decided to help all of you out, mainly because I feel obligated because I made a mistake here on the forum and was redeemed to be back on the forum,
> 
> Kevin



Yeah right. I await with baited breath your words of wisdom. I'll gag myself now but suffice to say that I think you're full of it.

I'm sorry if my bluntness causes anyone to feel offended, that's you choosing to take offence, not me giving it. I happen to have a lot of time and respect for this community regardless of my often less than subtle approach. I don't like seeing people taken for a ride, especially people who I might spar with on occasion but feel an affinity for.

I'm a straight shooting business guy. I set a lot of store upon morals and I've seen this kind of guy before on a number of occasions. I'll now wait for you to use my post as an excuse not to disclose your awesome process, but then again that's the kind of excuse you were looking for. Wasn't it? 

Don't let the door smack your butt on the way out Kevin.


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## WEEE Ben

I can't see how knowing the approximate yield of silver in Mylars is of any use to anyone without first knowing how to do it.
You already mentioned for every 100 lb of Mylar you can expect 32 - 50 toz, that's good enough, you can't be 100% on the yield as you say so it's pointless to know anything more then 32-50 toz per 100 lb as it's not going to be precise anyway.

I thought the whole point of it was the process, you know, the one where you said..



> Although it's labor intensive, it's safer than using nitric acid, and even incineration. I'll explain everything from the pros and the cons and a FREE and easy way to dispose of the solution once you're completed. Depending on how many pounds of mylars you're working with, you'll have gallons of solution to have to dispose of. I'm dealing with 25 gallons of solution at a time to dispose of. Again, I'll explain all of that once I create my tutorial on my process



What is the solution? dish washing liquid? urine? pepsi cola? 

if we just knew what the solution is then we can work out the rest on our own and save you a lot of time writing about yields, yields are the end result.


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## Harold_V

spaceships said:


> testerman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello members,
> 
> I have decided to help all of you out, mainly because I feel obligated because I made a mistake here on the forum and was redeemed to be back on the forum,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah right. I await with baited breath your words of wisdom. I'll gag myself now but suffice to say that I think you're full of it.
> 
> I'm sorry if my bluntness causes anyone to feel offended, that's you choosing to take offence, not me giving it. I happen to have a lot of time and respect for this community regardless of my often less than subtle approach. I don't like seeing people taken for a ride, especially people who I might spar with on occasion but feel an affinity for.
> 
> I'm a straight shooting business guy. I set a lot of store upon morals and I've seen this kind of guy before on a number of occasions. I'll now wait for you to use my post as an excuse not to disclose your awesome process, but then again that's the kind of excuse you were looking for. Wasn't it?
> 
> Don't let the door smack your butt on the way out Kevin.
Click to expand...

Patience, my friend! (?)
I have given him until the end of the day, Wednesday, December 10, to comply. That was the bargain he requested, and that's the bargain he was granted. If it is not forthcoming by then, he will be banned once again, this time with no chance of being reinstated. And, should he register under another identity, he will be detected in due time and banned once again, this time with a complaint filed against him with his ISP, so he can't return. Our bulldog (Palladium) will be called upon to execute that order, as he is an expert in the field. 

To me, one's honor is critical. To take advantage of the kindness of others is not acceptable. 

Harold


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## Anonymous

Thanks Harold. Good point, well made. 8)


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## kurtak

Thank you Harold 

As always - you handle these type situations with a great deal of wisdom that sets the boundaries of compliance both fair & clear --- it's a dirty job & you do it exceptionally well :!: 

Kurt


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## Lou

Should he post up the process, the rest of the thread detritus, thereby rendered meaningless, shall be sanitized. This post inclusive.


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## rickbb

Personally I hope he comes through, although for a bit of selfish reason. I'm sitting on some Mylars I intended to process over the coming holiday downtime and did not want to proceed if a better/safer process was about to be posted.


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## necromancer

with or without their input the process & experimentation will continue.
and i am sure it will be posted never the less. i just can not see how some one that wants "your" help is in no way willing to help you.

very sad,


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## Anonymous

Lou said:


> Should he post up the process, the rest of the thread detritus, thereby rendered meaningless, shall be sanitized. This post inclusive.



Lou I normally agree with you mate but on this I don't. It should be a matter of record that it took all this to get the promises fulfilled. Otherwise you just have a partial picture of what's occurred. Sweeping aside the reality of the situation doesn't give the full perspective and might lead some members to make judgement calls and financial calls incorrectly. 

What do you think?

Jon


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## Lou

You are welcome to disagree. 

I'm not interested in the _means_, just the ends, Jon. You are only as good as your last deal--having seen many things in the refining business, I can say honor and integrity are a full time gig. I believe personal development is a continuum and that people change, sometimes dramatically, usually painfully. If he should keep his end of the deal up (and satisfy the stipulations of his continued membership here), I would not consider any of this as relevant, only as clutter. You bring up a valuable point about protecting other members from potentially bad members.

Of course, one could presuppose that he will just put up completely irrelevant yields and/or a garbage process, although I think some members here would be able to know a stinker if they saw it. Me? I wouldn't know, I don't trouble with keyboard mylars. Maybe I should, given the intense interest in what I thought was a very bothersome material to accumulate.


Lou


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## rickbb

Lou said:


> Me? I wouldn't know, I don't trouble with keyboard mylars. Maybe I should, given the intense interest in what I thought was a very bothersome material to accumulate.
> 
> 
> Lou



You wouldn't think keyboards were much bother if you tried to dismantle a 42" plasma to get a smidgen of silver from it. I can get them for free and I don't want them any more. 

:lol:


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## necromancer

rickbb said:


> Lou said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me? I wouldn't know, I don't trouble with keyboard mylars. Maybe I should, given the intense interest in what I thought was a very bothersome material to accumulate.
> 
> 
> Lou
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't think keyboards were much bother if you tried to dismantle a 42" plasma to get a smidgen of silver from it. I can get them for free and I don't want them any more.
> 
> :lol:
Click to expand...



people do not wan't to remove 12 to 18 screws for one mylar sheet. and what would most people do with all that plastic ? pay to dump it at the scrap yard ?


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## yar

necromancer said:


> rickbb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lou said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me? I wouldn't know, I don't trouble with keyboard mylars. Maybe I should, given the intense interest in what I thought was a very bothersome material to accumulate.
> 
> 
> Lou
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't think keyboards were much bother if you tried to dismantle a 42" plasma to get a smidgen of silver from it. I can get them for free and I don't want them any more.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> people do not wan't to remove 12 to 18 screws for one mylar sheet. and what would most people do with all that plastic ? pay to dump it at the scrap yard ?
Click to expand...


There is a buyer for computer related plastics in Mentor OH. He is a buyer here, his handle here is Ewasted. Last I looked he was buying at close to steel prices.


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## necromancer

yar said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rickbb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lou said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me? I wouldn't know, I don't trouble with keyboard mylars. Maybe I should, given the intense interest in what I thought was a very bothersome material to accumulate.
> 
> 
> Lou
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't think keyboards were much bother if you tried to dismantle a 42" plasma to get a smidgen of silver from it. I can get them for free and I don't want them any more.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> people do not wan't to remove 12 to 18 screws for one mylar sheet. and what would most people do with all that plastic ? pay to dump it at the scrap yard ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a buyer for computer related plastics in Mentor OH. He is a buyer here, his handle here is Ewasted. Last I looked he was buying at close to steel prices.
Click to expand...


i was meaning the guys working out of there garage. i know of no one that will pay for it. 
and i wouldn't send 250 lbs in the mail. that would be a money looser here in Canada.


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## WEEE Ben

It's all part of the deal, once you pick up an item to scrap, it becomes your responsibility to deal with the waste.
It doesn't take much effort to find a plastic recycler that will take it.

What I do is quickly put the keyboard back together with a screw on each side then take them to my local e-waste recycling centre, a transfer station.
they still look like keyboards and will get processed as such.


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## solar_plasma

Once, I've seen a scrap yard on the net with address in Hamburg, who pays for sort clean plastics as much as for iron scrap, but it needs to be tons and you need to make an exclusive contract with him. They ship the scrap themselves and they provide containers for collecting. If I remember correct without any fee. Could be a business idea for you guys out there in the world.


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## Anonymous

I get $250 per tonne for the plastics, so I remove the mylars for my own refining and sell the plastics to one source and the cables to another. 

It's never going to be a big earner but it does cover the costs of processing them.


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## rickbb

necromancer said:


> i was meaning the guys working out of there garage. i know of no one that will pay for it.
> and i wouldn't send 250 lbs in the mail. that would be a money looser here in Canada.



I have a local source for the plastic, cords and steel, I have to give it to them since I have such small quantities, (less than 100lbs at a time), but at least it's out of the landfill. :| 

The small PCB in the keyboard is sold with all my other misc. boards which returns a decent price. At least it's decent for me since all I have invested is the time to dismantle them and box it up.

I thought the dozen or so screws was a pain until I dismantled 5, 42" plasmas. I bet I got a pound of just screws, I quit counting after 30! They do have a nice AL board that the whole thing mounts to, but has the glass glued down to it. It takes an hour to bust and pry the glass off of it.


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## gold4mike

Is Kevin gone again? I was hoping for his tutorial but his deadline for fulfilling his reinstatement agreement was looming.

I was keeping my fingers crossed for him...


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## necromancer

if i read it correctly, deadline was dec/10/2014


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## Anonymous

I'd hazard a guess that he's toast. Then again it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong :twisted:


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## FrugalRefiner

If you look at his username, you'll notice that it is black, indicating his account has been deleted.

Dave


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## necromancer

blank & you can not click the username. very sad indeed.

there is a reason to lock this post


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## rewalston

I was looking forward to his tutorial. I guess I'll just have to go with the incineration route and collect bb's for now. Now to find something to incinerate them in, I only have one melting dish and one pyrocram dish and don't want to pollute either one.

Rusty


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## MarcoP

rewalston said:


> I was looking forward to his tutorial. I guess I'll just have to go with the incineration route and collect bb's for now. Now to find something to incinerate them in, I only have one melting dish and one pyrocram dish and don't want to pollute either one.
> 
> Rusty


This tutorial was never intended to reveal the processing, was only supposed to give yields and other statistical data.


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## Anonymous

necromancer said:


> blank & you can not click the username. very sad indeed.
> 
> there is a reason to lock this post



Dave regardless of how sad it is, locking threads just hides things. It may well be locked by a moderator but let's not go down the route of just locking things because they are sad. That on its own is not a valid reason. Life is a journey and we meet both good and bad people on that journey. They all add to the experience of living. Hiding the bad things doesn't serve anyone because visual debate (if honest and adult) helps prevent the bad things from re-occurring.

A flaming thread where people lose the plot completely is a different matter, this thread has not been one of those. Some pretty strong feelings have been shared, but those have been shared in an adult manner. 

Just my 5 cents.

Jon


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## Smack

If you have a process or just plain information to share, don't say your going to do it, just get it ready and put it up when your ready.


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## WEEE Ben

Was he a genius of sorts? I would of thought processing mylar would of been the first thing a refiner would perfect, seeing as though mylars are easily found.
It seems like it's more than worth it if there's up to 50 toz of silver in 100 lb of mylars, that's serious dollars in my books for what is generally found for free.

So what is the best process for mylars as we know today?


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## necromancer

rewalston said:


> I was looking forward to his tutorial. I guess I'll just have to go with the incineration route and collect bb's for now. Now to find something to incinerate them in, I only have one melting dish and one pyrocram dish and don't want to pollute either one.
> 
> Rusty




Rusty in Newmarket, Ontario. i will bring you a pyroceram dish, no lid though.

PM me and i will do my best to have it to you before xmas (no charge)


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## necromancer

spaceships said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> blank & you can not click the username. very sad indeed.
> 
> there is a reason to lock this post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave regardless of how sad it is, locking threads just hides things. It may well be locked by a moderator but let's not go down the route of just locking things because they are sad. That on its own is not a valid reason. Life is a journey and we meet both good and bad people on that journey. They all add to the experience of living. Hiding the bad things doesn't serve anyone because visual debate (if honest and adult) helps prevent the bad things from re-occurring.
> 
> A flaming thread where people lose the plot completely is a different matter, this thread has not been one of those. Some pretty strong feelings have been shared, but those have been shared in an adult manner.
> 
> Just my 5 cents.
> 
> Jon
Click to expand...



by locking a thread it does not get hidden, it just puts a stop to other posts being made (after locking) it is still a public thread


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## necromancer

Smack said:


> If you have a process or just plain information to share, don't say your going to do it, just get it ready and put it up when your ready.




personally, i think he used Lye. maybe with a little something else in the mix (H2O2) ??

take a look at the other post he made. take a good look in the red bucket


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## goldsilverpro

necromancer said:


> Smack said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a process or just plain information to share, don't say your going to do it, just get it ready and put it up when your ready.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> personally, i think he used Lye. maybe with a little something else in the mix (H2O2) ??
> 
> take a look at the other post he made. take a good look in the red bucket
Click to expand...

Maybe he used boiling water.


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## necromancer

goldsilverpro said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smack said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a process or just plain information to share, don't say your going to do it, just get it ready and put it up when your ready.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> personally, i think he used Lye. maybe with a little something else in the mix (H2O2) ??
> 
> take a look at the other post he made. take a good look in the red bucket
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he used boiling water.
Click to expand...


there is a white dusting on the inside of the bucket. but good idea because i was thinking "Lye makes heat, heat makes the polymer shrink"

how hot does it need to be to make it shrink just that little bit ? i know the new Canadian bills shrink if you put heat to them.


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## necromancer

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=21438&hilit=mylar

white dust may be silver ? but we will never know unless someone experiments.

what happens if you mix Lye & Muriatic acid ?


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## FrugalRefiner

necromancer said:


> i know the new Canadian bills shrink if you put heat to them.


Are you sure the bills shrink or is it just their buying power? :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Dave


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## FrugalRefiner

necromancer said:


> what happens if you mix Lye & Muriatic acid ?


You make salt water in an exothermic reaction.

Dave


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## necromancer

FrugalRefiner said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> what happens if you mix Lye & Muriatic acid ?
> 
> 
> 
> You make salt water in an exothermic reaction.
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...


Hmmmm...... i will have to heat some Muriatic acid, measure temperature & ad some Lye and measure temperature again.


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## Smack

necromancer said:


> Smack said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a process or just plain information to share, don't say your going to do it, just get it ready and put it up when your ready.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> personally, i think he used Lye. maybe with a little something else in the mix (H2O2) ??
> 
> take a look at the other post he made. take a good look in the red bucket
Click to expand...


My point being, if he had never said anything about it at all, he would still be here.


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## necromancer

Smack said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smack said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a process or just plain information to share, don't say your going to do it, just get it ready and put it up when your ready.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> personally, i think he used Lye. maybe with a little something else in the mix (H2O2) ??
> 
> take a look at the other post he made. take a good look in the red bucket
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point being, if he had never said anything about it at all, he would still be here.
Click to expand...



yes, i understood, just thinking out loud.


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## FrugalRefiner

necromancer said:


> FrugalRefiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> what happens if you mix Lye & Muriatic acid ?
> 
> 
> 
> You make salt water in an exothermic reaction.
> 
> Dave
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmmm...... i will have to heat some Muriatic acid, measure temperature & ad some Lye and measure temperature again.
Click to expand...

That might not be a good idea. What I meant was, when you mix an acid with a base, you get an exothermic reaction. Heating the acid ahead of time could be very dangerous! 

When you mix NaOH (lye) with HCl (muriatic acid), the OH- (from th NaOH) combines with the H+ (from the HCl) to form H2O. That leaves behind the Na+ (from the NaOH) and the Cl- (from the HCl). If you evaporate it, you'll end up with solid NaCl - salt.

Dave


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## necromancer

thank you !

looks like that's not a option.
i am interested in this (so-called) easier solution to stripping the silver from mylar, even though i don't plan on using it.


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## solar_plasma

necromancer said:


> FrugalRefiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> what happens if you mix Lye & Muriatic acid ?
> 
> 
> 
> You make salt water in an exothermic reaction.
> 
> Dave
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmmm...... i will have to heat some Muriatic acid, measure temperature & ad some Lye and measure temperature again.
Click to expand...


If anyone wonders why it is exothermic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_enthalpy_of_reaction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_enthalpy_of_formation

So, you don't need to try. But I have never read anything about calculating, how fast a reaction will occur, - and if there is such a math, it would surely be far beyond my abilities. :lol:


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## jason_recliner

necromancer said:


> ... but good idea because i was thinking "Lye makes heat, heat makes the polymer shrink"
> 
> how hot does it need to be to make it shrink just that little bit ? i know the new Canadian bills shrink if you put heat to them.


I once lived in a house where the hot water from the kitchen tap could turn a 1.25l PET bottle into an 810ml bottle. I don't know how hot it was, but with that order of shrinkage, the silver foils could fall right off. Mylar is polyester though, with a higher temperature rating than PET. The stuff I used to use in transformer insulation was rated at 130°C, if I remember correctly.


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## solar_plasma

solar_plasma said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FrugalRefiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> what happens if you mix Lye & Muriatic acid ?
> 
> 
> 
> You make salt water in an exothermic reaction.
> 
> Dave
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmmm...... i will have to heat some Muriatic acid, measure temperature & ad some Lye and measure temperature again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If anyone wonders why it is exothermic:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_enthalpy_of_reaction
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_enthalpy_of_formation
> 
> So, you don't need to try. But I have never read anything about calculating, how fast a reaction will occur, - and if there is such a math, it would surely be far beyond my abilities. :lol:
Click to expand...


Okay, I found it. Not too difficult. It is described in Holleman/Wiberg _Inorganic Chemistry_, page 167-, reaction rate.

The reaction rate can be calculated based on a constant for the respective reaction in relation to mainly concentration and temperature, which will influence the number of reactant collisions per time, further needed minimum collision energy for a reaction to occur and the form of the molecules, which makes it more or less probable to collide in a way the reactants do react. 

So, if one knows the reaction rate at a stage zero, it can be calculated for any other situation.

I really love this book. Most pages can be read on http://books.google.de/books?id=Mtt...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false


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## kurtak

MarcoP said:


> This tutorial was never intended to reveal the processing, was only supposed to give yields and other statistical data.



However in this post :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=21438#p221249 of this thread he did say he was going to show the process as a tutorial

So he failed not only in posting the yield data as promised in this thread - but also failed in posting the tutorial process as promised

and then he started wining about people picking on him when they tried to correct him (help him) when he posted misinformation

I am really sorry that it ended in his being banned once again as I was pulling for him & hoping the best for him --- but the fact is he was given a more then fair chance & he blew that to

Kurt


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## solar_plasma

His many posts were very long-winded talking around the bush, while containing almost no information. Regarding the time spent saying nothing for real, I have a hard time believing, he wanted to share anything at all.

Maybe, there isn't anything really new to share.


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## kurtak

WEEE Ben said:


> Was he a genius of sorts? I would of thought processing mylar would of been the first thing a refiner would perfect, seeing as though mylars are easily found.
> It seems like it's more than worth it if there's up to 50 toz of silver in 100 lb of mylars, that's serious dollars in my books for what is generally found for free.
> 
> So what is the best process for mylars as we know today?



Though I have not tried it yet (& wont till spring when the weather warms up & can work outside again) read this thread :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=21471

No trick or secret to it that I can see (if you read through the whole thread including the last 2 post by MarcoP & Lou

Kurt


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## Anonymous

Wouldn't it be funny if we put our heads together and actually worked out the process he was on about, fuelled by the promise and subsequent denial of it being gift wrapped and delivered. :shock: 

That would be priceless.


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## solar_plasma

I just calculated the offer of mylar in the other thread. Even if you only take the 30kg of good ones,it would only be 130€ of silver. Even buying this at 40% plus shipping would make you earn 66€. Just preparing those (without incineration) to get leached would take several days of work.

But you are right, just out of curiosity, I will use my 1-2 pounds I have collected for some experiments, once I have nothing else to do. :mrgreen:


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## MarcoP

I was start liking the idea of a caustic alternative way, but after reading Lou's method about incineration, sampling and melting I'm pretty convinced to adopt his method when I'll have enough to make worth a try. Seems easy, fast and reliable plus will be easier to ask for help since it's a known process.


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## necromancer

spaceships said:


> Wouldn't it be funny if we put our heads together and actually worked out the process he was on about, fuelled by the promise and subsequent denial of it being gift wrapped and delivered. :shock:
> 
> That would be priceless.



out of all the regular members that post helpful information i am sure it will be on the "spring to do list" and out in the open. i may even try it just to make sure it's posted.

i was a bit ticked off that he said he would post the information & then turned it into a way to gather more business. i would truly think even if he posted the information that he would have had gained business from the members here. if you read through many of the posts he had members send him good amounts of mylars, enough to keep his family fed. now i fear he has nothing.


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## Palladium

I think he was new at refining and he found a good niche. He then found himself overwhelmed with the processing aspect of the operation. Couple that with problems he had in his personal life ( His wife ) and it overwhelmed him. I think he could have done well and i actually helped him out quiet a bit the first time he was here. Then came the rest...........

I've studied quiet a bit about the silver inks, clays, and paste they use on the mylars and the procedures they use to apply it. I believe he was using a cold NaOh solution to remove the silver. Cold because the silver was in flake form and not powder. He also said it was safe to flush down the drain without treatment and he spoke of how much washing or waste water it produced. This is typical if your washing NaOh off something especially cold! If it were me i would try warm NaOh and plenty of agitation. The silver should come off and be in a fine powder or broken up foils like in ap. Basically run them like film. Chris has given some good advice in the past on running production on films. Find that and adapt it for your processing.


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## solar_plasma

> he spoke of how much washing or waste water it produced. This is typical if your washing NaOh off something especially cold!



I wouldn't bother with rinsing off the NaOH that tends to cling to things like soap. I would just decant most of the NaOH for further usage and neutralize the residues in a bath of a weak acid. Much safer, less nasty.

Good hints, though!


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## MarcoP

solar_plasma said:


> he spoke of how much washing or waste water it produced. This is typical if your washing NaOh off something especially cold!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't bother with rinsing off the NaOH that tends to cling to things like soap. I would just decant most of the NaOH for further usage and neutralize the residues in a bath of a weak acid. Much safer, less nasty.
> 
> Good hints, though!
Click to expand...

Yeah great hint dough! After neutralization maybe a hot water rinse would suffice.


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## g_axelsson

Palladium said:


> I believe he was using a cold NaOh solution to remove the silver. Cold because the silver was in flake form and not powder.


Something like this...

I put these mylars in diluted NaOH (10-20% of saturated) when he started to talk about his process, wanting to test a hunch I had. Soon some of the silver started to flake off.


Some pieces broke off in quite large pieces, up to a cm or two but soon crumbled into dust on the bottom.


Some pieces have stripped good, some almost not at all. This is one of the fully stripped pieces.


Göran


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## Palladium

Yep! That would be it.


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## necromancer

wow, so 3 words would have kept the guy on the board.....

"I Used Lye" ?


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## silversaddle1

So when I said "Lye and a washing machine" in my post, I was on track? It was total sarcasm!


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## Palladium

silversaddle1 said:


> So when I said "Lye and a washing machine" in my post, I was on track? It was total sarcasm!



Actually you were basically spot on. I pretty much had it figured out from the start, but i just didn't want to spoil his big reveal. I think i made mention in a post awhile back about the different adhesives and glues that are used as binders. I figure now that he's gone what the heck. Time to bust MylarGate wide open. You're right though all he had to say was i used lye and this is how i did it! Sad in it's on way i guess.

O.K. Who's ready to send me their first shipment of mylars? :mrgreen:


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## Auful

Does anybody know why he (and maybe others) say not to bother with laptop mylars? I have quite few and some of them appear distinct from desktop keyboard mylars, but most are, in appearance, the same as their larger cousins. I wonder if lye would work for the "cast-off" laptop mylars. Thoughts?


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## Auful

g_axelsson said:


> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe he was using a cold NaOh solution to remove the silver. Cold because the silver was in flake form and not powder.
> 
> 
> 
> Something like this...
> 
> I put these mylars in diluted NaOH (10-20% of saturated) when he started to talk about his process, wanting to test a hunch I had. Soon some of the silver started to flake off.
> 
> Some pieces broke off in quite large pieces, up to a cm or two but soon crumbled into dust on the bottom.
> View attachment 1
> 
> Some pieces have stripped good, some almost not at all. This is one of the fully stripped pieces.
> View attachment 2
> 
> Göran
Click to expand...

Very astute. Thank you for sharing!


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## jason_recliner

necromancer said:


> wow, so 3 words would have kept the guy on the board.....
> 
> "I Used Lye" ?


Why use three words when three thousand can say so much less?


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## rewalston

hmm I wonder how paper would screw up the solution? I have a nice paper shredder, used for paper of course, so the drum (or whatever it's called) has a lot of paper in it that doesn't come out. Once in a while I take the shredder head apart to clean out dust and paper from the inside, but can't get it all out. How would this affect the outcome. I mean if things are incinerated before the silver is purified, the little bit of paper shouldn't hurt.

Rusty


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## Palladium

rewalston said:


> hmm I wonder how paper would screw up the solution? I have a nice paper shredder, used for paper of course, so the drum (or whatever it's called) has a lot of paper in it that doesn't come out. Once in a while I take the shredder head apart to clean out dust and paper from the inside, but can't get it all out. How would this affect the outcome. I mean if things are incinerated before the silver is purified, the little bit of paper shouldn't hurt.
> 
> Rusty



That's probably what i would do. Run them through a paper shredder to reduce their size to strips or squares then place them in a rotating drum with small holes about a 1/4 or 1/2 inch even just as long as the strips won't pass through it. Rotate the drum and the silver falls off and collects in the bottom as the pieces provide wear and abrasion. Like what we do with the ap process, but with a rotation factor.


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## rewalston

you had to throw in the rotation factor , the shredder I have is cross-cut, roughly 3/8" pieces. I'll give it a try in one of my buckets, and just stir it every so often with a stick, if there is enough solution to make sure that the mylars are covered with plenty, the silver should still sink to the bottom.

Rusty


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## jason_recliner

For simplicity, consider the ability of an air bubbler to add a little agitation.


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## Palladium

That would probably work to, but the rotation i spoke of would be more that of a dry like drum on it's side horizontally and not the vertical type like in a bucket.


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## necromancer

Auful said:


> Does anybody know why he (and maybe others) say not to bother with laptop mylars? I have quite few and some of them appear distinct from desktop keyboard mylars, but most are, in appearance, the same as their larger cousins. I wonder if lye would work for the "cast-off" laptop mylars. Thoughts?




most laptop keyboards i have seen are fused together. just not worth the work for most people


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## Auful

necromancer said:


> Auful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anybody know why he (and maybe others) say not to bother with laptop mylars? I have quite few and some of them appear distinct from desktop keyboard mylars, but most are, in appearance, the same as their larger cousins. I wonder if lye would work for the "cast-off" laptop mylars. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> most laptop keyboards i have seen are fused together. just not worth the work for most people
Click to expand...


Interesting; I have some adhered like that but most come apart quite easily. Thanks!


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## necromancer

Auful said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Auful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anybody know why he (and maybe others) say not to bother with laptop mylars? I have quite few and some of them appear distinct from desktop keyboard mylars, but most are, in appearance, the same as their larger cousins. I wonder if lye would work for the "cast-off" laptop mylars. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> most laptop keyboards i have seen are fused together. just not worth the work for most people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting; I have some adhered like that but most come apart quite easily. Thanks!
Click to expand...


your welcome, the ones you get are older or newer ? not including apple laptop keyboards.


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## Pantherlikher

Bummer that it's turned this way but life goes on I suppose...

Ok. Hints were given so I'm going with you all on process.

He mentioned 3? types to seperate so maybe 3 types of glue...
Laptops would be more work to get the glue off?

Would adding H2O2, peroxide, do anything to speed up dissolving glue?

B.S.


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## Smack

I ran some through a cross cut paper shredder and I thought that they took up more space after. Not shredding them is free.


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## WEEE Ben

Can someone do a detailed step by step process with pictures or a video?


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## MarcoP

WEEE Ben said:


> Can someone do a detailed step by step process with pictures or a video?


For the moment we are only "thinking" about it, no definitive way.
However it seems to be easy as making up a 10%-20% NaOH solution, cut the mylars if you wish and dip it in, stirring will speed up things, when all mylars are clean from silver decant most of the solution for reuse and neutralize the remaining one. Good rinse with hot water and you should have 999 silver.

Our skin, eyes, etc, can recover from acids better than from caustics burns. Make sure to use protection gears.


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## patnor1011

Laptop mylars also tend to have rubber glued on them.


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## kurtak

Smack said:


> I ran some through a cross cut paper shredder and I thought that they took up more space after. Not shredding them is free.



Like X-ray film (when doing them in large batches) you need to shred them into smaller pieces & then use agitation so that you get an abrasion effect happening so that the pieces are rubbing against each other to knock the silver loose from the mylar - it also allows for the NaOH to make contact (during agitation) to come in contact with all bits & pieces to do its work

A couple (or few) whole mylars in NaOH (as a test) is one thing - but in a larger batch they would stick together & the NaOH would not get to all of it & the silver would not be knocked free

Kurt


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## kurtak

jason_recliner said:


> For simplicity, consider the ability of an air bubbler to add a little agitation.



the air bubbler would have to provide enough agitation to do the function described in my last post - you would have to get a very vigorous rolling boil going to insure that you have enough abrasion happening so pieces don't stick together & prevent the NaOH getting to all pieces to preform its task 

Kurt


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## kurtak

solar_plasma said:


> he spoke of how much washing or waste water it produced. This is typical if your washing NaOh off something especially cold!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't bother with rinsing off the NaOH that tends to cling to things like soap. I would just decant most of the NaOH for further usage and neutralize the residues in a bath of a weak acid. Much safer, less nasty.
> 
> Good hints, though!
Click to expand...


That's what I would do - in fact that is how I deal with getting the NaOH out after doing the conversion on silver chloride - saves a huge amount of time over trying to wash it all out with much less waste

Kurt


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## Palladium

kurtak said:


> Smack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I ran some through a cross cut paper shredder and I thought that they took up more space after. Not shredding them is free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like X-ray film (when doing them in large batches) you need to shred them into smaller pieces & then use agitation so that you get an abrasion effect happening so that the pieces are rubbing against each other to knock the silver loose from the mylar - it also allows for the NaOH to make contact (during agitation) to come in contact with all bits & pieces to do its work
> 
> A couple (or few) whole mylars in NaOH (as a test) is one thing - but in a larger batch they would stick together & the NaOH would not get to all of it & the silver would not be knocked free
> 
> Kurt
Click to expand...


Great answer Kurt! You hit the nail on the head.


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## Shark

Things seem to be quieted down on the subject, but here is a few things I have found. 

Aggressive agitation is needed, it helps to speed up the silver coming off of the mylars.
The agitation helps to separate the pieces so they are better exposed to the solution as well.
Direct exposure to the solution will speed up the release of the silver. Don't let them sit stuck together.
Direct exposure will decrease the time need from a week or more to only a day or two, some mylars will be under a day.

I have a few ideas I will try later, I need to find a few more mylars yet. Not much that will help the people working on a large scale, but might be more useful for us small home refiners.

Edited for spelling.


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## Pantherlikher

Here's a thought about agitation in general...

They make 5gal. bucket stirrers with drill attached to stir paint. 
You can put the lid back on the bucket and the stirrer fits through the pour hole. 
Just attach it to a motor and let it sit until done.
I'd say shred and fill the bucket 3/4 full and have at it.

B.S.


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## necromancer

i was thinking of making a coil of fish tank air hose with small holes in it about 2" apart, the coil would fit in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket
since i have 2 very nice air pumps it should make for great agitation.


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## Shark

Air could be a problem in an open container, it may cause it to splatter tiny drops around. Turning the air off before opening a container should suffice though. Also, even in a half gallon jar, an aquarium pump hasn't proven to be quite enough in my case. A finer shredding might allow it to work though. The paint stirrer isn't a bad idea at all, should be one here, some place. I was going to try an ice cream maker but it seems one piece is doing it's best to stay hidden from me. 

A few other things I have noticed.

The adhesives can become thick and sticky causing the solution to act like it is fully saturated. I am not sure that is the case, but adding fresh solution seemed to speed things along again. Very little was needed in my case to perk it back up.

Washing can be a real pain. The silver foils act a lot like gold foils, but seem lighter. I have picked enough pieces of mylar out to form a full sheet, even after a week the silver seems to not be coming off those pieces.

The thicker mylars with the milky look seem to release the quickest. It may also be because the thicker whitish ones seem to have thicker silver as well in most cases.

On a another note, I tore down an odd keyboard that used gold mechanical contacts under the key buttons, and 4 more with finger cards. Pretty good for some free keyboards. I have never ran across the one with the mechanical contacts before.


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## Palladium

If i had a continuous source i would buy a used $50 washing machine and run the drain into a 55 gallon drum with a filter sock.


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## Anonymous

Palladium said:


> If i had a continuous source i would buy a used $50 washing machine and run the drain into a 55 gallon drum with a filter sock.




Funnily enough that's exactly what I was thinking. You could alter a few things and recycle the liquid back in for the next batch, and literally rinse and repeat :shock: 

You've no idea how long I've waited to be able to use that analogy in the correct context.


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## silversaddle1

LOL!!! A washing machine and lye, just like I joked about!


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## necromancer

i had seen something like this on youtube, nitric bath in a old SS washing machine from the 1950's


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## Shark

A washing machine would work great for those who have access to enough mylars. I don't have that access so I am thinking about something smaller, with the same principle. Here is a picture of what I have now. Nothing fancy, just a jar with a lid that can be tightened up to shake by hand. This is from maybe a dozen or so keyboards. Next time I will keep better track, as this round was just to get a feel for it.


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## rickbb

I made some tests over the past week and here are my conclusions.

Conclusions;

1. NaOH will work, but heat is required, lots of it.
2. The NaOH is not attacking the silver bearing ink, but the mylar. forcing the bond between them to break and release the ink.
3. The time that the mylar is exposed to the solution needs to be kept to a minimum to prevent the mylar from breaking down into very small shards that will be difficult to remove from the ink flakes.
4. Even very clean flakes are not pure silver. It is silver bearing ink. This ink is a synthetic wax bonding the silver powder together. This ink will have to be dealt with to recover the silver. One way is to incinerate it, another is to use a solvent to dissolve and flush the binder away leaving the silver behind in a filter. Either way creates a new waste stream to deal with, toxic smoke or toxic solvent.

Anyway this is the yield from my first go at this, 1 lb. clean desktop mylars = 0.07 troy ounce of silver. Purity unknown but the button looks nice. (The yield is probably low as I was making this up as I went and could very well have left some behind in many places.)


Method used;

Made a 10% solution of NaOH, put in 1 lb. of mylars from desktop keyboards. Cut them in half only, not small pieces.

Let them soak for a few hours at room temp. Nothing seemed to be happening, no silver release. So I put some heat to it. The solution was in a plastic bucket so I put a tray of sand on the hot plate then the bucket on that. Kept the temp down to about 100F so I wouldn't melt the bucket.

After an hour or so, with some aggressive stirring, silver started to flake off the mylar. I ran out of time so I had to turn the heat off and let it sit for a few days.

When I came back to it, no more silver had flaked off, BUT, the mylar had started breaking down. Not dissolving, breaking up into small shards. The NaOH was attacking the mylar, but not releasing the silver.

I transferred the solution to a metal container, (an old enameled canning pot), and really put the heat to it. Brought it up near boiling, 190F or so. stirred aggressively as often as I could. The mylar really started to break up now, and the silver released completely in a few hours.

Strained the solution though a plastic colander to remove the mylar shards and collect the silver in a bucket. Let it settle and siphoned off the liquid and began the rinsing filtering and drying of the silver.

The filtered silver was examined and I found that there was a significant amount of tiny shards of mylar mixed in. They were the same size as the silver flakes. Since it was a very small amount, (about 2 tablespoons), I burned the filtrate until it was all white ash.

This silver bearing ash weighted 0.13 ozt, I think this value can be improved with practice and better techniques. 

I melted the ash with a small amount of soda ash and borax, this yielded a button of 0.07 ozt.

I still have another 20 lbs. or so to work with to see if I can do better now that I have a direction to move in.


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## jungle_Dave

From what I am reading the values are nothing like what was posted in the original (now locked thread)
a 200:1 ratio (mylars to Ag) seems a bit steep but maybe if you had tons it could make sense. It's out of my league but I am sure there are a few members here with that type of volume. 

I use a system at my farm for rooting hardwood tree cuttings that might be able to be modded to work with this.
1 x 250 L poly barrel with a tap on the end
1 x 200 W air pump
Ceramic balls (they come in several sizes at garden supply centers)
The air flow agitates the ceramic balls ( this keeps algae down in my application.) with a 2 stage filter it should be able to collect the silver hands and more important splash free. Caustic solutions scare me!
Might be a bit too aggressive or require some tuning but should work for this application but is much bigger then a washing machine.

You would want your mylar segments larger then the ceramic balls and 1st stage filter larger then the particulates.
It should take 50-100 kg of material maybe more?

Good luck and hope this helps someone.


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