# small business to silver recovery from x-ray



## georgenader (Jun 14, 2019)

Hallow every body
This is my first post in this forum & I hope not to be the last
I need a help to make a small project for silver recovery
First I want to start by x-ray than the second fixer
So let to start by tools needed
1- plastic shredder to cut the film to small pieces
2- tank with hitter 
3-grip to put the film after cutting inside it and dunk in tank
4-motor for flipping
My question now is that enough ?
Is all silver can be pass from grip or we need to wash the film again
Thanks for helping


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## ION 47 (Jun 17, 2019)

Hello georgenader. First you need to decide on the processing technology. There are several ways of processing: 1 - ash (burn the film and fuse the ash), 2 - flushing the emulsion in an alkaline solution, 3 - flushing the emulsion in chlorine bleach, 4 - treatment in oxalic acid, 5 - leaching silver chemicals without destroying the emulsion (there are several ways). The choice of option depends on the amount of Your film and on Your capabilities. If the film is a lot, and You have nowhere to sell waste (polyethylene terephthalate flakes), it is better to burn the film (with smoke can fly about 10% Ag) and melt the ash. If You do not want to pollute the air with smoke, have hot water, you can split the film into pieces (I use a Chinese crusher HSS 400. ), and wash off the emulsion in hot (more than 90 degrees Celsius) soda solution. Wash the film after washing is necessary, it is better to let the water through the filter in a circle.


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## rickbb (Jun 19, 2019)

Is there that much x-ray film and wet film processing left in the world?

Everyone has gone digital, (with a few exceptions of hobbyist photographers), years ago. 

Recovery from film and it's chemistry has all but disappeared here in the US.


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## nickvc (Jun 19, 2019)

I believe the best material now comes from industry but it won’t last long as new technology will soon replace the film with computer generated results :shock:


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## georgenader (Jun 20, 2019)

ION 47 said:


> Hello georgenader. First you need to decide on the processing technology. There are several ways of processing: 1 - ash (burn the film and fuse the ash), 2 - flushing the emulsion in an alkaline solution, 3 - flushing the emulsion in chlorine bleach, 4 - treatment in oxalic acid, 5 - leaching silver chemicals without destroying the emulsion (there are several ways). The choice of option depends on the amount of Your film and on Your capabilities. If the film is a lot, and You have nowhere to sell waste (polyethylene terephthalate flakes), it is better to burn the film (with smoke can fly about 10% Ag) and melt the ash. If You do not want to pollute the air with smoke, have hot water, you can split the film into pieces (I use a Chinese crusher HSS 400. ), and wash off the emulsion in hot (more than 90 degrees Celsius) soda solution. Wash the film after washing is necessary, it is better to let the water through the filter in a circle.



Thanks for replay
i will work with the second option (split the film & wash with NaOH solution )
i split it to 2 -3 cm 
if i put it in the net & filled in solution , Is the PET will be clean With out anther washing or no ??
what the size of net purpose can be used?


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## ION 47 (Jun 22, 2019)

I'm working with option 5. But I think that 2-3 inches is quite sufficient grinding. If the crushed film will be in the grid, it will be difficult to mix, and this should be done. I think you can mix the film with a stream of water created by the pump, and connect a filter to the pump, which will collect silver.


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## georgenader (Jun 23, 2019)

thanks ion47
but i had same questions:
1-do you meaning 2-3 inch = 5 - 7.5 cm & my crusher is 2-3 cm?
2- if i don't but the crusher film in grip haw can i separate the PET from sliver?

actually i will use the filter but to collect the silver from soda & then incineration & smelt


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## georgenader (Jun 23, 2019)

rickbb said:


> Is there that much x-ray film and wet film processing left in the world?
> 
> Everyone has gone digital, (with a few exceptions of hobbyist photographers), years ago.
> 
> Recovery from film and it's chemistry has all but disappeared here in the US.



Thank for your replay
i know it is little now to find the x- ray have high value but i think dry view is available & has 4 gram per silver
that is right or no?


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## georgenader (Jun 23, 2019)

nickvc said:


> I believe the best material now comes from industry but it won’t last long as new technology will soon replace the film with computer generated results :shock:



thank for replay
is this industry film made by Fixer or any liquid ? 
what the right way can i invest & star a small business


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## ION 47 (Jun 23, 2019)

georgenader said:


> Thank for your replay
> i know it is little now to find the x- ray have high value but i think dry view is available & has 4 gram per silver
> that is right or no?



"dry" film is more difficult to wash off in NaOH, this forum discussed issues on this topic. It was suggested to add a little alcohol to the alkali solution. I do not process the "dry" film, and my friend burns it in an incinerator


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## ION 47 (Jun 23, 2019)

georgenader said:


> thanks ion47
> but i had same questions:
> 1-do you meaning 2-3 inch = 5 - 7.5 cm & my crusher is 2-3 cm?
> 2- if i don't but the crusher film in grip haw can i separate the PET from sliver?
> ...



I mean 2-3 cm, but can be 2-3 inches, then use the chopper with the knives on the principle of a machine for grinding coffee, which makes the corrugated film, the main thing that the film does not stick together among themselves. The ratio of the film and the solution should be 1:3 (200 kg film and 600 liters of solution in tank 1 meter cube). If the film is larger, it will be more difficult to mix the water flow.


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## georgenader (Jun 24, 2019)

Thank ion47
i will start to prepare my tools & work as you said 
for dry film it is noted to added same alcohol


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## rickbb (Jun 25, 2019)

georgenader said:


> rickbb said:
> 
> 
> > Is there that much x-ray film and wet film processing left in the world?
> ...



Copied from a post by GoldnSilverPro from a few years back;



> There are 3 basic types of medical x-ray film -
> (1) Undeveloped Rare-Earth - Silver Bromide. Before being exposed to light, this film is usually a light green color. Thus, it is called "Green" film in the trade.
> (2) Developed Rare-Earth - Black Silver Particles.
> (3) Dry-View - Silver Behanate (almost transparent)/Silver Metal (black). Dry-View is the Kodak brand of this type film. There are others. On these, the image is developed by heat. Therefore, no silver is removed during developing. Both undeveloped and developed Dry-View contain the same amount of silver (.04-.10 tr.oz Ag/pound, depending of the manufacturer. Undeveloped Dry-view is clear (tiny bit cloudy) blue and it looks like regular x-ray film after the emulsion has been stripped. Heating with boiling water will turn it solid black. The plastic PET film base is the same on all 3, except there is an intermediate mylar layer on the Dry-View.
> ...


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## georgenader (Jun 25, 2019)

I put 47kg from dry view type in shredder than take 2 kg from it to put in grip i left it for 45 min in 6% soda with steering but I still have some black film .the temp was 90 C 
I put same alcohol but I het it's smell & I think don't use it (can I ?).
What can I do to clean all the black film ?


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## rickbb (Jun 26, 2019)

Possibly not enough agitation/stirring and the bits stuck to each other not letting the lye contact the silver emulsion. 

I used a plastic strainer to hold the film inside the container of lye and stirred it until all the film was clear. You can then lift the strainer full of cleared film out to reload for the next batch.

Large companies that do this have rotating perforated drums holding the film while in the solution tank.


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## georgenader (Jun 27, 2019)

thanks rickbb
can you describe the agitator shape?
what is the speed of motor RPM ?
now this concentration of soda , temp & time are ok


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## ION 47 (Jun 27, 2019)

https://youtu.be/LHdf2YipEyI


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## rickbb (Jul 5, 2019)

ION 47 said:


> https://youtu.be/LHdf2YipEyI




Video unavailable
This video contains content from Discovery Communications, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.


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## ION 47 (Jul 7, 2019)

rickbb said:


> ION 47 said:
> 
> 
> > https://youtu.be/LHdf2YipEyI
> ...



Look here: https://www.pyromet999.com/


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## nickton (Aug 17, 2020)

I don't understand why you have to shred it.


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## rickbb (Aug 18, 2020)

You don't, he just did. I've done it both ways, they both work. You just have to keep the film from sticking to each other by some method or another.


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