# incineration of black chips in a tube



## arthur kierski (Feb 16, 2012)

i use with sucess a cocktail shaker to incinerate black chips(i.c)-----but with this tube i can incinerate only 500grams of chips each time---- a friend of mine is making a larger tube and i need to know if i leave a small hole in the top lid,to avoid great pressure and explode the tube? i am asking this because with the cocktail shakker after a few minutes of heat,the top lid opens and for a few moments it makes fire and smoke with a smell(bearable)---i want to avoid this smell and fire,but i am afraid that with the pressure the tube might explode that is why i am asking if he should make a small hole in the screwd top lid----thanks for any advice
Arthur


----------



## qst42know (Feb 16, 2012)

You do want to let the pressure out, trapping it would certainly burst your vessel.

You don't want to end up with a pipe bomb.


----------



## arthur kierski (Feb 16, 2012)

qst42know,thanks for the quick reply----i will make a hole in the top screwd lid---as i said, the smoke and fire are for a few minutes and the smell is bearable-----
thanks for your answer---sometimes things are in front of us and we do not notice(see)
regards 
Arthur


----------



## qst42know (Feb 16, 2012)

I often though a hinge top electrical box like one of these would be good to incinerate in after you remove the gasket. A piece of fence wire could keep it shut.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=steel+nema+box&hl=en&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4GZAB_enUS459US459&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=796&ion=1&wrapid=tlif132943607356210&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=16171945927857237582&sa=X&ei=uJU9T9PnOIbg2QW-ppSWCA&ved=0CHQQ8wIwAA#

This one is pricey but I was looking for a photo to show what I had in mind.


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Feb 16, 2012)

qst42know said:


> I often though a hinge top electrical box like one of these would be good to incinerate in after you remove the gasket. A piece of fence wire could keep it shut.
> 
> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=steel+nema+box&hl=en&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4GZAB_enUS459US459&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=796&ion=1&wrapid=tlif132943607356210&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=16171945927857237582&sa=X&ei=uJU9T9PnOIbg2QW-ppSWCA&ved=0CHQQ8wIwAA#
> 
> This one is pricey but I was looking for a photo to show what I had in mind.



A large cast iron dutch oven would probably do better and last longer. The hinges will rust real quick on that can after it has been used a couple of times in the fire.


----------



## patnor1011 (Feb 16, 2012)

I would be no afraid to drill more small holes at various places of tube. That will help gases to escape. I do not think you can lose values as from my experience if you put in whole chips (not crushed) you will have them cooked and pretty much in the same shape but lighter and brittle.


----------



## arthur kierski (Feb 16, 2012)

Partnor----i got the idea from you---and i put in whole chips as you mentioned---your method works perfectly---congratulations
Arthur 
ps; i will drill some more holes------
Arthur


----------



## Smack (Feb 16, 2012)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> qst42know said:
> 
> 
> > I often though a hinge top electrical box like one of these would be good to incinerate in after you remove the gasket. A piece of fence wire could keep it shut.
> ...



And the oven comes with a lid.


----------



## dtectr (Feb 16, 2012)

My friend 
My internet is gone from my home and I an having difficulty posting photos from my smartphone, however, I have used with some success a "chimney"- style charcoal starter for plastic Ic's. 
The double wall configuration plus the space below creates VERY hot oxygen- rich forge-type Incinerator which consumes the smoke as it is formed. Since it uses only convection the heat generated affects no delicate parts like fans. 
I will try to post some images of the process a work, if I can figure out how to do so. 
Dtectr 
P.S. Does anyone know how to perform these functions from a smartphone?
Sorry - cooking dinner. Hope this is still relevant. 
Dtectr


----------



## samuel-a (Feb 16, 2012)

dtectr made a good point that seems like everyone is forgetting.
When you heat in a closed compatrment, you do no incinirate, you pyrolyze the ogranics. Carbon and metal ions is not good for you and shift yields results.

Either you further heat the chips later in open air (no smell or smoke, just CO2), or you introduce air to your main pyrolyzer to keep the burning.
An after burner is a most in either case. the "after burner" can be the same heat source such as the burning coke, just direct the fumes and smoke back inside it.


----------



## patnor1011 (Feb 16, 2012)

His concern was directed on how to increase volume and prevent potential loss of values due to pressure explosion. I don't see how yields results can be shifted. He is not burning/incinerating/pyrolyse powders but whole chips, where only difference will be weight and material strength after procedure. They still need to be crushed but it is much easier after heat treatment.


----------



## samuel-a (Feb 16, 2012)

patnor1011 said:


> His concern was directed on how to increase volume and prevent potential loss of values due to pressure explosion. I don't see how yields results can be shifted. He is not burning/incinerating/pyrolyse powders but whole chips, where only difference will be weight and material strength after procedure. They still need to be crushed but it is much easier after heat treatment.



Yup, we are in agreement here.

Burning the chips whole is indeed more convenient as we both know, but that's also one of the main problems, a sufficient incineration is not achieved by that.
I'm reffering to the fact that later on in the process, mainly the leaching step, the carbon will present a problem where metals ions adsorb to free crabon (not to metion filtering), and may hurt yields.

IIRC, Phil was burning them in a close vessel, when all volatiles were gone he burned them again in open air with intense propan flame to red hot.
This added step seems as it might eliminate the vast majority of the carbon without the need to crush and pulverise, with minimal impact on yields.


----------



## arthur kierski (Feb 17, 2012)

after the work is done in the closed tube---i burn the chips in an open vessel(the chips becomes white and no smell is liberated ) and then i easily crush it to a fine powder----- 
with this method, i eliminated all the polution problems with my neighbours and do the work indoors in my lab----before , the whole place and around (the neighborouds)had a smell of burned plastic wires------and lots of complaints---i had to do the work sometimes in another place
thanks to all and regards
Arthur


----------



## patnor1011 (Feb 17, 2012)

I would drill many small holes whole length of tube. On the bottom side which will rest on red hot coal. In that way any gases or smoke escaping will burn. No excess smell around.


----------



## etack (Feb 22, 2012)

patnor1011 said:


> I would drill many small holes whole length of tube. On the bottom side which will rest on red hot coal. In that way any gases or smoke escaping will burn. No excess smell around.


The problem is that you would have losses. When your chips break apart in the pipe and fall though the holes. They get awful delicate when burnt.

It seem that you are making charcoal. On the you-tube it is made in metal paint cans with a hole drilled in the lid, if the pressure builds up the lid pops off. The use of the dutch oven is a great idea. It acts like a Chinese pressure cooker. A pot with a really heavy lid when the pressure builds up the lid burps out the steam. The dutch oven would work the same way here when the lid would burp out the gasses. I would hang it in a burn barrel and start your fire. Wait till the fire dies down then take the lid off. Let the fire burn out the rest till it turns white. I wouldn't stir, move, shake, or disturb it till it was done. Just add your fuel to the fire put the lid on it when it was done then let it cool. Then process however you like.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xpWBgkuNRE

Eric


----------



## patnor1011 (Feb 22, 2012)

I don't know, sure they may break down it just did not happened to me. I mean, I did few kilograms of them and the only difference I observed was that they were white/grey when I took them out. They still hold shape even after heat treatment. I do not move them in fire or do not shake with them while they are red hot in fire.


----------



## ericrm (Feb 22, 2012)

i do mine in in a oxygenated fire (i get good temperature between 500 and 1000deg) my probleme is the chip get yellow hot and get white on the top but inside it is still dark grey /black
whatever i do shakking them,mixing or leaving them longer
i know that it will probably be better i i burn them once,crush them and then put them on the fire again... but it is costly and time consuming...
also i was using ss has a burning container and 2 or 3 run and i have hole in them do you have something more resistant in mind?


----------

