# Pyro at its best



## NoIdea (Dec 10, 2012)

Evening All - firstly thanks to those who offered there help with youtube.  

Right, the first picture is of the material i intended to pyrolyze.




Here are a couple of pictures of the unit.






This picture is of the burner box




Now lets put it all together




Now lets fire it up

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAnODk2buUE[/youtube]

Deano


----------



## NoIdea (Dec 10, 2012)

It would seem i exceeded my limit on the last post, soooo to cap it off, here is a picture of the after pyrolysis.

I will take another of the final product after it cools down.

Deano

Edit: Oooops forgot to add the picture, my bad :lol:


----------



## Geo (Dec 10, 2012)

nice. it seems to be your first video. i cant wait to see more of your gadgets at work.


----------



## NoIdea (Dec 10, 2012)

Geo said:


> nice. it seems to be your first video.



Does it show? :lol: 

Oh yah, what next, what next? :mrgreen: 

Deano


----------



## canedane (Dec 10, 2012)

Thank you Deano.
Im impressed how mutch you do and how i really feel you"burn" for figure things out and dare to do things others say it isent possible for us small scale refiners.
Does the fumes burn from your nice desined container? If they dosent burn i will suggest you have the end off your pipeline into to fire, it will warm the container more and will be better for our inviroment.
Greetings from Henrik


----------



## NoIdea (Dec 10, 2012)

canedane said:


> Thank you Deano.
> Im impressed how mutch you do and how i really feel you"burn" for figure things out and dare to do things others say it isent possible for us small scale refiners.
> Does the fumes burn from your nice desined container? If they dosent burn i will suggest you have the end off your pipeline into to fire, it will warm the container more and will be better for our inviroment.
> Greetings from Henrik



Hi Henrik - the pipe from the top goes straight into the blower, its a bit difficult to see, basically the gasses produced from pyrolysis are fed into the blower, about 2inches from the end of the blower pipe, inside the burner box, the flame type exiting the blower is, or similar, to having LPG squirting into it, and the noise is quite loud, sounds like a jet engine, which is a good indicator/glue that all is well and when it slows down the need for extra fuel is required to complete the process.

The only smoke produced is white-ish due to the wood burning, butt once that's gone all that can be seen are ripples of heat, however if one was to take the unit out before completion one gets a black sooty smoke exiting the exhaust pipe of the reactor, at which point pop it back in, add a few more pine cones and wha-la, bingo was his name oh.  

Ideally the burner box should be insulated, and a proper chimney installed, this was the units, as a whole, maiden burn.

Video quality is poor as i am only using my cellular phone.

Cheers

Deano


----------



## scrappile (Dec 10, 2012)

NoIdea said:


> Evening All - firstly thanks to those who offered there help with youtube.
> 
> Right, the first picture is of the material i intended to pyrolyze.
> 
> ...





says You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. 

Might be my settings so I'll look later,.. :shock:


----------



## butcher (Dec 11, 2012)

Deano,
That's HOT, Nice setup, what a simple solution to a complicated problem, using the gases of combustion as fuel and reburning then, in the original combustion chamber eliminating the need for the after burner.
nice job on the burner box.
Thanks for sharing.


----------



## NoIdea (Dec 11, 2012)

Hey butcher - Here is a wee drawing of what it meant to look like and function.




Deano


----------



## butcher (Dec 11, 2012)

Deano, 
That is how I had it pictured in my head from your description above.

I would probably want that combustion air chamber to have a port for adding fuel gas, for combustion when the fuel from the pine cones and sticks and wood in the furnace ran low.


----------



## NoIdea (Dec 11, 2012)

Yup, when she gets really hot and has been running on it's own for a while and is getting close to completion, you will hear the flame start to sound like a missing engine (roar...no roar....roar...no roar etc), it is then time to introduce waste engine oil via a hole close to where the pyro unit enters the burner, at that tempurature the oil vapourizes and produces a very very hot flame head, more than enough to get the job completed, bit of over kill really butt i love it 8) .

I live in the country now (3 months), almost mid summer, and thier is twigs, pine cones, and the likes floating around for the picking, though no waste engine old  . Ill give you all a demo when it's set up with the oil burning.

Deano


----------



## kjavanb123 (Feb 18, 2014)

All,

I have been reading this post like thousand times, I still can't figure out how those pipes are connected, is this me or just anyone else? Is there any clear image that shows everything rather close up?

Thanks a lot
Kj


----------



## nickvc (Feb 18, 2014)

Kevin the drawing by Deano a couple of posts above explain it well. The gas feed heats the outside of the container and any gases produced are drawn back down to burn again by the blower pushing the gas in.


----------



## bmgold2 (Feb 18, 2014)

kjavanb123 said:


> All,
> 
> I have been reading this post like thousand times, I still can't figure out how those pipes are connected, is this me or just anyone else? Is there any clear image that shows everything rather close up?
> 
> ...



You did see the drawing above? You have to scroll a bit to see the whole picture.




Looks pretty easy to me. The pyro container has a pipe where the gas from pyrolysis exits the container. It then goes to the bottom of the fire box where it is put into the blower pipe where fresh air is forced in like a forge. That then burns the gas produced from the pyro container as more fuel to keep the process going until it gets too low on fuel (scrap being burnt in container). I think it basically turns the material in the pyro container into charcoal since there should be no air available inside it to actually burn the scrap). Basically just a gasifier.

The pine cones and sticks are used to get the fire going and start producing the gas from the scrap. That becomes the new fuel and burns producing more heat. I don't think more fuel (pine cones/sticks) needs to be added once it starts but I could be wrong. I think the used oil is added (introduced into the blower pipe) as another fuel source at the end of the process to finish it off when the amount of gas being produced from the pyro container is not enough to keep it burning alone.


----------



## sharkhook (Feb 18, 2014)

Sweet and simple, I like it, a lot!

I see a new project in the near future. Thanks.


----------



## Shinobi86 (Nov 17, 2015)

Hi Deano,

I like your Idea of a pyro reactor without using gas so I did my own design based on yours.
My question now is do you think this design could work and is it possible to use any kind of coal instead of wood to start the process and burn the fumes when they pass the coal?
The reactor should be made out of an 55 gallon barrel and the mesh between the coal/wood allows you to change your pyro container without removing unburned wood/coal.

Cheers from Germany ;-)

Alex


----------



## 4metals (Dec 13, 2015)

Your drawing seems to imply that there is no airflow out of the burn chamber. You must allow for the products of combustion to exit. 

I have built small units similar to yours (with connections to exhaust) that burn wood pellets used for home heating. A small propane bottle (1 pound like in a torch) ignites the pellets and the blower supplies the combustion air. Once the pellets light, the gas is shut and the pellets heat things up and burn out the combustibles in the material (the pyrolysis process) and usually it takes about 3 cups of pellets to process a load.


----------



## Smack (Dec 14, 2015)

I'm thinking it exits out the top as it looks like the ic container sits a couple inches below the top piece. If there were measurements it would be easier to tell.


----------



## gold4mike (Dec 15, 2015)

4metals said:


> Your drawing seems to imply that there is no airflow out of the burn chamber. You must allow for the products of combustion to exit.
> 
> I have built small units similar to yours (with connections to exhaust) that burn wood pellets used for home heating. A small propane bottle (1 pound like in a torch) ignites the pellets and the blower supplies the combustion air. Once the pellets light, the gas is shut and the pellets heat things up and burn out the combustibles in the material (the pyrolysis process) and usually it takes about 3 cups of pellets to process a load.



4metals,

Could you add a drawing or pics for your wood pellet fired design? I use a pellet stove to heat my shop and have a ton ready for this winter. I can spare some for chip burning and have about 100 pounds or so to incinerate.

Thank you for the idea.


----------



## Finn from Ecuador (Dec 15, 2015)

Does it look like the gas exit tube from IC container connects to the blower line underneath so that the venturi effect keeps slight vacuum inside the IC container?

If it's so, will gasses burn well even when they are diluted such way with air?

Salud

Finn


----------



## bswartzwelder (Dec 16, 2015)

I see no reason why the gasses shouldn't burn. Keep in mind however, gasses do have an upper and lower explosive limit. Too little gas and there isn't enough for an explosion. Too much gas and there isn't enough room for oxygen to support an explosion. Having said that, you get gas and air in the right mixture and you could have problems. With a system of this type, there is an open flame (or a lot of hot embers) available all the time. When the chips start to off gas, there isn't enough for an explosion, but it will add to the combustion. As the gasses increase in volume, there is sufficient volume of gasses to keep the fire going without an external combustion source. As Deano said, once the chips have delivered all the combustible gasses there is, the fire starts to go out. Roar, then no roar, then roar again.


----------



## kurtak (Dec 16, 2015)

Personally this was the best investment I ever made :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=22581&hilit=incinerate#p237094

one piece of equipment used for incineration - or - smelting - or - melting (three jobs one piece of equipment)

when incinerating there is no need for an afterburner or a loop to recirculate the unburned volatiles for re-burning --- due to the cyclonic action of the flame in the furnace the volatiles get complete combustion in the furnace right out the gate

Also no need to worry about explosions due to gasses building up - they don't have time & it breaths & the incineration takes place fast - very fast

Kurt


----------



## Finn from Ecuador (Dec 17, 2015)

I was thinking that if the tube from sealed IC container would be the main line entering the fire chamber and the blower line connected to it in 11 degrees angle we would have an eductor. That would create easily -500mbar negative pressure in the IC container. That would mean lower oxygen part pressure and something like 11,5 % oxygen in the IC container.

As far as i understand, low oxygen enviroment is good for pyrolysis. Or maybe it brings no significant benefits in this application?

Salud

Finn

This just doesn't want to leave me in peace.

Maybe one could also add an air inlet line with shut off valve to the lower part of the IC container. The line should go through the fire chamber so that the fresh air would get pre heated.
Then when the pyrolysis is done, one could open the fresh air valve slightly and let the eductor suck the pre heated air in for to burn carbon.

OK, one more

When the burning is done, then shake the IC container vigorously by touching it for example with hammer drill for to stratify the content so that heavies drop to the bottom. Then open the fresh air valve a little bit more and let the eductor suck out major part of the fly ash. Carefully for not suck out values.

One small detail

There should be pocket at the bottom corner of the IC container where heavies can drop during the shaking. The hammer drill should touch that same pocket corner so that the stroke goes to the upper opposite corner direction and heavies would walk nicely to the pocket. Fresh air holes should be so that they won't blow the pocket during the ash removal.

This should result almost ash free concentrate i think.


----------



## 4metals (Dec 22, 2015)

> Could you add a drawing or pics for your wood pellet fired design? I use a pellet stove to heat my shop and have a ton ready for this winter. I can spare some for chip burning and have about 100 pounds or so to incinerate.



I had to figure out how to use an old gas melter which held a #20 crucible to use for pyrolysis. Actually that is quite easy, just invert a bigger crucible or an old crucible liner over the crucible with the IC's in it and it forces the uncombusted material out the bottom into the flame of the melter. That looks like this;

View attachment dual crucible in gas melter.pdf


This does 2 things that Kurt's furnace does not, 1 it covers the IC's and eliminates any oxygen for complete pyrolysis, and 2, it lets the fumes out lower in the furnace to give the volatile fumes more time in the flame path to burn completely. Kurt's furnace may burn IC's beautifully, and the pictures show it does, but in reality there are volatiles escaping but in the wide open spaces where he does this it is not as noticeable. In a closed area inside a hood it would be noticed. The longer the contact time with the flames makes for more complete combustion.

The unit I set up was in a city where the buildings have long ago had their natural gas shut off. So here was this gas burner with no fuel. They were able to use a small propane bottle and they threw a scoop of pellets in the bottom of the furnace. The initial propane lit the pellets and once lit they provided the heat required to get the pyrolysis going. He was burning jewelers sweeps and had to work out the amount of pellets he needed but once he did that it has been consistent. The pyrolyzed material needs to have the carbon burned off and that is done by removing the cover over the crucible and heating it after the pyrolysis is complete. He does that with pellets too.


----------



## kurtak (Dec 24, 2015)

4metals said:


> > Could you add a drawing or pics for your wood pellet fired design? I use a pellet stove to heat my shop and have a ton ready for this winter. I can spare some for chip burning and have about 100 pounds or so to incinerate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



4metals - thanks for posting this - I will have to give it a try because I want to build a room inside the barn I work out of so I can continue to work my incineration, smelting & melting operation during the winter - as it is now I have to shut that part of my operation down during the winter as its just to cold outside to do it

I have the blower & ducting for the indoor fume control but need to get the sheet metal to build the walls & ceiling of the room as well as cement board for the floor - I should have the funds for those building materials this coming January so hopefully I can still have it up & working before this winter is over

Kurt


----------

