# I designed a Moebius silver refining electrolytic cell.



## eduardo.met (Aug 28, 2022)

After considering that silver refining using a stainless steel Bowl was not entirely efficient; I started designing the electrolytic process for a Moebius cell. I took into account many variables which I will not detail because they correspond to numerous calculations, however, I will mention some data.

Calculated current density= 3.5 A/dm2.

Number of cathodes= 1 (which will change), the dimensions of the area of the cathode in contact with the electrolyte is: 12x10.5 cm.

weight of the anodes= approximately 500 g each.

Dimensions of the anode in contact with the electrolyte = 8x6x1 cm3 approx.

electrolyte volume= 4.23L.

Electrolyte concentration= 150g AgNO3/L.

Theoretical mass to be deposited= 70.98 g Ag/ 2hr.

Cell dimensions= 17x17x22 cm.

According to some calculations, it would have to have a power source that supports at least 10 amps. I hope that a next contribution can upload a photo or video of the Moebius electrolytic cell in operation.

Until next time, greetings to all.

Eduardo.met








If you are interested, I have a video of electrowinning gold and silver from activated carbon.

Here I leave the link:


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## Nani (Oct 18, 2022)

eduardo.met said:


> After considering that silver refining using a stainless steel Bowl was not entirely efficient; I started designing the electrolytic process for a Moebius cell. I took into account many variables which I will not detail because they correspond to numerous calculations, however, I will mention some data.
> 
> Calculated current density= 3.5 A/dm2.
> 
> ...



Hey can you detail the calculations you have done for finding the theoretical mass to be deposited


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## eduardo.met (Oct 22, 2022)

Nani said:


> Hey can you detail the calculations you have done for finding the theoretical mass to be deposited


Hello. There is no problem, just clarify that for the calculation of the theoretical mass deposited, it is necessary to start from the dimensional calculations of the cathode. Here I send you two photos of my calculations in this regard.


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## Nani (Oct 22, 2022)

Thanks eduardo, I have been working on this Moebius cell and have set up multiple cells each having a single cathode and multiple anodes recently. I have gone through a few research papers and found that the following are the optimum electrolyte parameters for maximising the weight desposition at cathode. [Ag+] = (100 to 150 g/dm^3), [Cu2+] (g/dm3 ) = (50 to 75), [HNO3 ] (g/dm3 ) = (5 to 7), current density(A/m^2) = 1000, cell voltage around 4volts. It would be helpful for me if you list down any other parameters and findings which might influence the weight deposition.


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## eduardo.met (Oct 22, 2022)

Nani said:


> Thanks eduardo, I have been working on this Moebius cell and have set up multiple cells each having a single cathode and multiple anodes recently. I have gone through a few research papers and found that the following are the optimum electrolyte parameters for maximising the weight desposition at cathode. [Ag+] = (100 to 150 g/dm^3), [Cu2+] (g/dm3 ) = (50 to 75), [HNO3 ] (g/dm3 ) = (5 to 7), current density(A/m^2) = 1000, cell voltage around 4volts. It would be helpful for me if you list down any other parameters and findings which might influence the weight deposition.


I usually use 10% free nitric acid to increase the kinetics of electrodeposition. This percentage is relative to the amount of acid I used to transform the silver into nitrate.In this case we must take into account the stoichiometric equations


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## Abdoulapapatte (Oct 25, 2022)

Hello I am building myself a cell at the moment of 84 l I would like please that you can detail me a maximum the units and the calculations and the formulas of mathematics to apply the annals the cathode and the current density thank you I would like to know more thank you I'm counting on you   alone we go faster together we will go further


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## Abdoulapapatte (Oct 25, 2022)

When I did the analysis the person who proceeded in the order of the metals got it wrong so basically I'm not too surprised with the result now

I have a lot silver 99+


View attachment 20221025_174945.mp4

View attachment 20221025_175029.mp4

And not very good purity 
View attachment 20221025_195416.mp4

View attachment 20221025_175156.mp4


everything was leached by an attack of nitric diluted with distilled water on the same block of silver weighing 7kg++ purity of 860


at the base and cément on on copper , but at différent time .


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## Swissgoldrefiner (Oct 26, 2022)

Abdoulapapatte said:


> When I did the analysis the person who proceeded in the order of the metals got it wrong so basically I'm not too surprised with the result now
> 
> I have a lot silver 99+
> View attachment 52832
> ...


Nice job...what would be interessting to know is what left in the insoluble...
(Il reste quoi dans les insoluble? poids, quel métal,...)


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## Alondro (Oct 26, 2022)

Ah, electrochemical equations! I haven't done these since college chemistry class... 25 years ago. 

I'd need to relearn everything at this point.


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## Nani (Oct 26, 2022)

eduardo.met said:


> I usually use 10% free nitric acid to increase the kinetics of electrodeposition. This percentage is relative to the amount of acid I used to transform the silver into nitrate.In this case we must take into account the stoichiometric equations


Thanks! Did you find good results using tartaric acid for the deposition of the crystalline form of silver?


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 26, 2022)

Nani said:


> Thanks! Did you find good results using tartaric acid for the deposition of the crystalline form of silver?


I can't see any reference to Tartaric acid?
where did you find that?


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## eduardo.met (Oct 27, 2022)

Abdoulapapatte said:


> Hello I am building myself a cell at the moment of 84 l I would like please that you can detail me a maximum the units and the calculations and the formulas of mathematics to apply the annals the cathode and the current density thank you I would like to know more thank you I'm counting on you   alone we go faster together we will go further





Nani said:


> Thanks! Did you find good results using tartaric acid for the deposition of the crystalline form of silver?


Hello, I had read some notes that tartaric acid allows larger and denser crystals to be obtained, however I have not yet had the opportunity to use it. As soon as I have the time to report on it I'll post it here.


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## eduardo.met (Oct 28, 2022)

Abdoulapapatte said:


> Hello I am building myself a cell at the moment of 84 l I would like please that you can detail me a maximum the units and the calculations and the formulas of mathematics to apply the annals the cathode and the current density thank you I would like to know more thank you I'm counting on you   alone we go faster together we will go further


hello. An 84 liter cell is really big. For that size I hope you have much more than 7 kg. You must consider that you need very high quality silver to prepare the electrolyte and at the appropriate concentration. Another thing is that although the voltage is 3.5 approx. You have to take into account the material that you will use for the connectors since the voltage results from a voltage of the sum of: voltage to overcome the resistance of the electrolyte, voltage for the redox reaction to take place, voltage to overcome the polarization phenomena of the cell, voltage to overcome the resistance of connectors. But hey... how many cathodes have you thought about placing and what are their measurements? It would be nice to detail the area that will be in contact with the electrolyte...we can go from there.


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