# halogen salts in a confined vessel with ammonia and O2



## Husker (Sep 3, 2008)

Has anyone heard anything of this method?

http://sdmines.sdsmt.edu/sdsmt/SiteID=199458

Sounds a little beyond the backyard scrapper, but this might be a process that someone wanting to grow beyond the backyard might have a look at.

From reading this article, it also sound like it can be useful for gold recovery in certain situations. 

H


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## goldsilverpro (Sep 3, 2008)

Very interesting, Husker!! It seems that you did good. Here's the patents, I think.

http://www.google.com/patents?as_q=&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_pnum=&as_vt=&as_pinvent=&as_pasgnee=south+dakota+school+of+mines&as_pusc=&as_pintlc=&as_ptype=11&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=2008&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2008&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=1&as_miny_ap=2008&as_maxm_ap=1&as_maxy_ap=2008

Looks like the 1st 4 and the 8th one. I think the 8th one is the main one, but I haven't read any of them yet.

When the forum started, a guy whose forum name was Platinumill was selling a $5000 machine to do cats. There were lots of problems with it, some people got robbed, and everyone forgot about it. What was interesting, however, is that I think he was using ammonium chloride, which may be what is used in these patents. Also, the Shor machine uses ammonium chloride and salt. Most of the Shor patents used NH4Cl also.


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## Husker (Sep 3, 2008)

I would like to expand into cats. At this time, i am aquiring mostly scrap Karat and lots of GF scrap. It is one of those time vs return. Lots of valuables on electron scrap, but DAM, a lot of time scratching for little.

Now, if there was a better process than AR to process cats (AR is high cost, and then there are always those NOx), then I would like to have a peek at it, and see just how small scale it can be done. To compute this, you would have to get full results (lists about 90-95% recovery), and cost per lb (or ton) would have to be only a medium percentage above what a large scale operation would handle.

IF (big if), this process would scale to say someone doing a hundred or couple hundred cats a month, and do so much cheaper than AR (and it sounds like most of your chem's are re-processed), then it would make for a small processor being able to actually make a go of it.

Now, if platinum would just go back to where it was, lol

H.


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## goldsilverpro (Sep 3, 2008)

If you buy cheap and have a good, safe, efficient, non-polluting, inexpensive system, you'll profit no matter what the metal prices are.

Two more patents from that same group: 5328669, 7166145


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## Lou (Sep 3, 2008)

Shot in the dark here guys (I did not look at these patents) but is this about the ammonium halide, sulfuric acid, converter material, and O2 all put into an autoclave process?

If so, I can already tell you some details of this technology (I've done it but I'll confess it was on lab scale).
If not, my apologies.


This method works, but (and a big BUT indeed) there are all the usual technical problems, limitations, and the like that you have to deal with just like any laboratory-to-pilot-to-industrial process. In my opinion, it's not feasible unless you expend some resources. Also, there are better ways.

I only have a 1 gallon pressure bomb and it's not even ideal for this (SS316, Parr).


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## skippy (Sep 3, 2008)

Yeah, if you note the temperatures they are running the autoclave at, then you can find the base pressure needed just to keep the water a liquid. Then there's the oxygen pressure on top of that...
With the pressure and the temperature and the corrosivity, you'd be hard pressed to find a suitable reation vessel.


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## skippy (Sep 3, 2008)

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5542957.html
here's a link to a copy of the patent that includes some of the experimental conditions


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## Lou (Sep 3, 2008)

Yes it's nothing revolutionary in my opinion. This is indeed what I thought it was and it has many limitations. Really you need a PTFE lined autoclave to do this at and those are NOT cheap.


Still, if anyone really has one for this process, I'm willing to help where I can.


Lou


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## Oz (Sep 3, 2008)

Slightly off topic but what temps will PTFE withstand?


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## Lou (Sep 3, 2008)

From cryogenic to about 250*C. It's a wonder material in my opinion. The only thing I don't like about it is how it soaks things onto its surface. Makes is a real pain in the behind for really good analytical work.



Check your PMs box.


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## Oz (Sep 3, 2008)

I had asked because I always let my hot stir plate cool while still stirring to avoid damage to the coating on my stir bars. It seemed perhaps I was being overly cautious.

Did


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## skippy (Jan 29, 2010)

Lol, seems like fate has given me a 2 gallon 316SS teflon lined 140psi pressure vessel (I love college dumpsters). It's a little on the low side for pressure, but if I run it a little cooler, and with less O2 pressure, it'll be ok maybe. You can see the model on this page http://www.alloyproductscorp.com/asme_pressure_vessels.html

I'm wondering Lou if I could pick your brain for some details about how you did yours in your Parr bomb. 

Did your unlined 316ss vessel come through basically allright? It would surprise me - would have thought it would be chewed up under these conditions? 

What sort of hoses, valves did you use to run the oxygen? How did you stir it? Any basic procedural advice, (i.e. things that you thought were good ideas but wern't necessarily in the patent info) ?


If you can answer any of these question I'd be most grateful.


And if it doesn't work, it'll still make a sweet nitric acid still!


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## Lou (Jan 29, 2010)

Do you want to sell it?


I can trade you many nice metals and apparatus for it.  You'll also have my eternal gratitude (and probably cash in pocket).


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## Anonymous (Jan 29, 2010)

I read in that article that a ton of cat material was stated as containing 35,000 in metals with platinum at 539 a oz, doesnt that make the material worth at least 80,000 now? it also said 700 cat per ton makes a cat worth about 115.

Also says 600 worth of chemicals to process, 600 does not seem so bad when you can recover up to 80,000 plus of metals.

jim


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## Lou (Jan 30, 2010)

Plus labor, plus transport to and from, plus disposal (unless you can sell it back to primary producer WITH the precious metals  )


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## 2002valkyrie (Feb 5, 2010)

Just found out that I live up the road a .5 mile from one of the largest Platinum refiners in the Southern United States. A company called Multimetco. Ever heard of them? You drive past it and never know that's what they are doing but when you turn in the gate you get stopped by an armed gaurd. A friend of mine said he went for an job interveiw there and they wouldn't let him see anything and cameras where in every corner. Wish I could see.


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## 2002valkyrie (Feb 5, 2010)

Here is a link I found for them: http://www.multimetco.com/pages/?pageID=3


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 5, 2010)

I've heard of them. By their website, it looks like they're using the same type of cat process that Techemet in Pasadena, TX is using. When Techemet was in Houston, they were about 2 blocks from a place where I worked. Their doors were always wide open and you could see everything that was going on.


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## Palladium (Feb 5, 2010)

2002valkyrie said:


> Just found out that I live up the road a .5 mile from one of the largest Platinum refiners in the Southern United States. A company called Multimetco. Ever heard of them? You drive past it and never know that's what they are doing but when you turn in the gate you get stopped by an armed gaurd. A friend of mine said he went for an job interveiw there and they wouldn't let him see anything and cameras where in every corner. Wish I could see.



Where do you live in Bama Valkyrie ? I pass Multimetco a couple of times a month on my way to the Anniston Army Depot.


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## dick b (Feb 5, 2010)

GSP:

Sounds as if they had a simple security policy.
If they found you with your hand in the crucible, they put the rest of you in there too!
Security problem resolved! 8)

dickb


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## Palladium (Feb 5, 2010)

I've wondered about the cat material. Could you not wet the material and pass chlorine gas thru it then wash the material to remove the pgm like the platt kiss method ?


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## 2002valkyrie (Mar 23, 2010)

Palladium said:


> 2002valkyrie said:
> 
> 
> > Just found out that I live up the road a .5 mile from one of the largest Platinum refiners in the Southern United States. A company called Multimetco. Ever heard of them? You drive past it and never know that's what they are doing but when you turn in the gate you get stopped by an armed gaurd. A friend of mine said he went for an job interveiw there and they wouldn't let him see anything and cameras where in every corner. Wish I could see.
> ...


Off of Greenbrier Road going toward Donoho School. That's about all I can release publicly due to security being so tight and all.


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## Irons (Mar 23, 2010)

2002valkyrie said:


> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> > 2002valkyrie said:
> ...



A good point everyone should take notice of. I suffered a home invasion by 5 armed crank heads a long time ago because, someone who I thought was my friend, happened to mention to these creeps that I had some money at home. That was really scary.


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