# Put gold amalgam in HCL acid . HCL turned yellow.



## carcrossguy (Jan 15, 2011)

I put an oz of gold amalgam in some 30% hydrochloric acid to clean some dark stain on it but the hydrochloric acid turned yellow immediately. Is it possible that the gold amalgam had been cleaned with nitric acid and the nitric acid was still residing on the amalgam. Confused.(gold amalgam has been sitting in safety deposit box for 40 yrs)


----------



## entropy (Jan 15, 2011)

One way to be sure?

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8532&p=79913&hilit=stannous+testing#p79913


----------



## Oz (Jan 15, 2011)

The first thing you need to consider is the mercury in the amalgam. Read up on a retort to safely remove your mercury.


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 15, 2011)

They say dilute hydrochloric acid does not react with mercury. The "amalgam" I have may have already been cleaned up. Should have heated the piece up to make sure. Anyway, I have 2.5 grams of 95% tin solder dissolviing in 30 ml of hydrochloric acid in smal plastic aspirin bottle so the truth will be revealed.


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 15, 2011)

You should use a glass beaker if you have one and heat you HCL up to make your stannous.


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 15, 2011)

Cotton swab didnt change colour when I tested the yellow hcl acid. After I removed the amalgam yestereday I placed it on piece of plastic. Some of the yellow hcl dried up on the plastic. I tested that dried up yellow hcl and it turned the swab grey. Might have been dirt that was coming off the amalgam.


----------



## shaftsinkerawc (Jan 15, 2011)

Have you determined a Specific Gravity for your ? amalgam? If it is a mercury amalgam with gold then caution is recommended. There is a procedure for using nitric to dissolve the mercury away from the gold but I haven't used it. Heard about it from a BLM geologist with a fume hood.


----------



## nickvc (Jan 16, 2011)

Sorry if I'm seeming to jump on you but have you had an assay or test done on your material to find out exactly what your messing with and whether it's worth the effort..
It's not just mercury that can cause you problems there can be many toxic substances in ores and even concentrates which you really don't want to be messing with unwittingly.
It might well be worth your time talking to Rick the Rockman who is our resident ore and rock expert, he can also provide you with an assay, might cost you some money but better than your life. 
Please use caution, no amount of gold is worth your life or I'll health and if you have to pass your material onto a professional refiner so be it, better that than dead and still no saleable gold.
This material is over my head but I really do sense danger here for you if you don't take proper advice and follow to the letter what your told.
I wish you luck and hope you can find a way to reach your goal safely.


----------



## patnor1011 (Jan 17, 2011)

carcrossguy said:


> I put an oz of gold amalgam in some 30% hydrochloric acid to clean some dark stain on it but the hydrochloric acid turned yellow immediately. Is it possible that the gold amalgam had been cleaned with nitric acid and the nitric acid was still residing on the amalgam. Confused.(*gold amalgam has been sitting in safety deposit box for 40 yrs*)



Are you sure that it actually is gold amalgam?
You would be amazed to see what other people lock in their safety deposit boxes.


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 18, 2011)

I got the piece red hot with mapp gas plumber torch. No fumes. There were silver blotches on the surface when it was red hot. Now the blotches seem red in colour after it cooled.


----------



## rusty (Jan 18, 2011)

carcrossguy said:


> I got the piece red hot with mapp gas plumber torch. No fumes. There were silver blotches on the surface when it was red hot. Now the blotches seem red in colour after it cooled.



You would not see the fumes from mercury being driven off by heat. Why put yourself in danger you have been cautioned about mercury. 

I see that you live in Langley B.C. which is a twenty minute drive to either of the private labs I gave you the address's too. I suggest that you go and visit one of these labs and get some professional advice face to face.


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 18, 2011)

thanks rusty. i think the guy in aldergrove passed away. didnt realize the cloverdale link was for separate assayer.


----------



## Platdigger (Jan 18, 2011)

Silvery blotches...hmm, mercury is silvery and cinnabar is red.


----------



## rusty (Jan 18, 2011)

carcrossguy said:


> thanks rusty. i think the guy in aldergrove passed away. didnt realize the cloverdale link was for separate assayer.




Did you check at the outbuilding at the Aldergrove site, John owned the property but his wife was very involved in these projects along with the fellows working in the lab.

John and his partners have several mining claims, they did their own lab work along with work they did for others. Sorry to hear that John passed away he was a brilliant man, a former spook.


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 19, 2011)

I put a .23 gram flake of the stuff in hcl/cl leaching solution. It appears to be 65% silver because the flake is now completely silver and only 35% lighter in weight. I heated up the silver flake and it did not change weight so it is not mercury. It became white in colour upon heating. The gold in the area is at least 91% gold so I'm wondering why my father mixed silver into this. Not sure if it is silver. Could be lead or something.(stannous chloride test turned purple for the solution). I think this was originally very fine gold in black sand.


----------



## rbramsey (Jan 19, 2011)

carcrossguy said:


> I put a .23 gram flake of the stuff in hcl/cl leaching solution. It appears to be 65% silver because the flake is now completely silver and only 35% lighter in weight. I heated up the silver flake and it did not change weight so it is not mercury. It became white in colour upon heating. The gold in the area is at least 91% gold so I'm wondering why my father mixed silver into this. Not sure if it is silver. Could be lead or something.(stannous chloride test turned purple for the solution). I think this was originally very fine gold in black sand.



I'll take a stab at this. I don't think you are dealing with silver. Silver would have been digested and precipitated back as silver chloride covering the flake. I would believe that the base material would be one the platinum sisters. Try digesting it in hot AR, and test with stannous chloride.

Richard


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 19, 2011)

rbramsey said:


> carcrossguy said:
> 
> 
> > I put a .23 gram flake of the stuff in hcl/cl leaching solution. It appears to be 65% silver because the flake is now completely silver and only 35% lighter in weight. I heated up the silver flake and it did not change weight so it is not mercury. It became white in colour upon heating. The gold in the area is at least 91% gold so I'm wondering why my father mixed silver into this. Not sure if it is silver. Could be lead or something.(stannous chloride test turned purple for the solution). I think this was originally very fine gold in black sand.
> ...



The density of all approx 11 oz of this stuff is around 7.6 grams/ml. (336 grams of this stuff displaced approx 44 mls of water). Aluminum is the only metal I can think of off hand that is that light. a mix of 70 percent aluminum and 30 percent gold give approx 7.68 density.

. there was a ton of silver precipitate around the .23 gram flake when it was first in the leaching solution. the silver precipitate disappeared after I dumped a bunch more clorox in. could be a mix of aluminum and silver with a tiny bit of gold.

gold density is 19.3
silver 10.5
aluminum 2.7


----------



## jimdoc (Jan 19, 2011)

There are quite a few metals with a specific gravity in the 7 range.

http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/spec_gra.html


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 20, 2011)

jimdoc said:


> There are quite a few metals with a specific gravity in the 7 range.
> 
> http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/spec_gra.html




The average specific gravity is 7.6 but this might be irrelevant since the material may be a cement with air in it? There was an insane amount of silver precipitate when I first did this and it gathered around the .23 gram piece I had in the hcl/cl. It disappeared when I poured a bunch more clorox in. I guess I will take a bit of battery acid and put on it and see or mustard.

I have to research if the gold that you get out of black sand has a different composition from normal placer gold.


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 21, 2011)

Put it back in a fresh solution of hcl/cl and more silver choloride was being produced. Looks like it is almost all silver. The piece now seems to be almost all a green/yellow. Smooth. Most of the silver is gone. Was hoping to find some platinum.


----------



## Harold_V (Jan 22, 2011)

carcrossguy said:


> Put it back in a fresh solution of hcl/cl and more silver choloride was being produced. Looks like it is almost all silver. The piece now seems to be almost all a green/yellow. Smooth. Most of the silver is gone. Was hoping to find some platinum.


You are making uninformed decisions. HCl does not dissolve silver, so, at best, it would have created a hard shell of silver chloride around the object, assuming the silver content was high, say, more than 10%. If it is lower, the metal, what ever it may be, will dissolve, leaving behind loose silver chloride. 

Now then, assuming that it is gold that contains some silver, your solution should be a yellow/orange color. Have you tested with stannous chloride? 

Harold


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 22, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> carcrossguy said:
> 
> 
> > Put it back in a fresh solution of hcl/cl and more silver choloride was being produced. Looks like it is almost all silver. The piece now seems to be almost all a green/yellow. Smooth. Most of the silver is gone. Was hoping to find some platinum.
> ...




I'm using hcl/clorox to dissolve the gold/silver. Stannous Chloride test is purple but I can tell there is not much gold because the gold colour disappears very quickly and the the dissolving piece is almost all silver after that. Very large amount of silver chloride is produced when the solution is fresh but becomes saturated very quickly. However, the remaining core that has not dissolved is a yellow silver colour. Its is either another type of metal or a mix of gold silver. 
Overall, probably 5% gold at best.

If you are saying hcl/clorox does not dissolve silver, that would make sense because it only dissolves(produces silver chloride) when there is a tiny piece in a fresh solution.


----------



## Harold_V (Jan 22, 2011)

carcrossguy said:


> but I can tell there is not much gold because the gold colour disappears very quickly


Yes, you can tell me that.

However, you're wrong. When you better understand refining (especially testing), you'll know why. 



> and the the dissolving piece is almost all silver after that.


If that was the case, it wouldn't dissolve at all. I do not agree with your assesment. 



> Very large amount of silver chloride is produced when the solution is fresh but becomes saturated very quickly.


Saturated? With what? I see that term tossed around frequently. I'm not sure I agree, but I might if I knew what was doing the saturation. Does a hard green/gray skin form on the piece when that happens?



> However, the remaining core that has not dissolved is a yellow silver colour. Its is either another type of metal or a mix of gold silver.
> Overall, probably 5% gold at best.


I'm amazed that you can know that from what little you've managed to accomplish. I don't agree with your conclusions. I don't even come close to agreeing with your conclusions. 

Are you aware that 18K white gold has no yellow cast? That's 75% gold--and it's white, for all practical purposes. You tell me you know there's no more than 5% gold present, yet the color is yellow silver? Is your solution dark green? 

You are making uninformed decisions. You really need to do some reading. When you understand testing, almost none of these things will be a mystery to you. 

Harold


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 22, 2011)

I put a 5 gram piece in only about 60 ml of solution and I did get green sludge around the piece and very little silver chloride with the solution being dark yellow. However, when I put a .2 gram piece in around 80 mls I dont get green sludge and the solution is a light yellow.. The piece quickly loses any gold colour and i just get silver chloride.


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 22, 2011)

carcrossguy said:


> I put a 5 gram piece in only about 60 ml of solution and I did get green sludge around the piece and very little silver chloride with the solution being dark yellow. However, when I put a .2 gram piece in around 80 mls I dont get green sludge and the solution is a light yellow.. The piece quickly loses any gold colour and i just get silver chloride.



How do you know you are getting silver chloride? Why don't you post a picture of what you are working with. You are just making assumptions about what you have IMHO.


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 22, 2011)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> carcrossguy said:
> 
> 
> > I put a 5 gram piece in only about 60 ml of solution and I did get green sludge around the piece and very little silver chloride with the solution being dark yellow. However, when I put a .2 gram piece in around 80 mls I dont get green sludge and the solution is a light yellow.. The piece quickly loses any gold colour and i just get silver chloride.
> ...



Camera usb cable is not working right now. I know Im dealing with silver and the silver is losing weight so not too ambiguous situation. I'm just curious about the process that was used to produce this stuff. Some evidence that mercury was used. I know the gold dust is at least 90 percent gold in that area with lots of silver. I'm getting it assayed so hopefully that will help.


----------



## Harold_V (Jan 22, 2011)

carcrossguy said:


> I put a 5 gram piece in only about 60 ml of solution and I did get green sludge around the piece and very little silver chloride with the solution being dark yellow. However, when I put a .2 gram piece in around 80 mls I dont get green sludge and the solution is a light yellow.. The piece quickly loses any gold colour and i just get silver chloride.


Why do you conclude it's saturation? Sounds to me it's depletion. In many instances, solutions can hold a staggering amount of material without achieving a level of saturation. I have no doubt that is NOT your problem. 

Harold


----------



## Lino1406 (Jan 23, 2011)

Most amalgams used to day contain silver, not gold. Gold amalgam
should look silvery


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 23, 2011)

Lino1406 said:


> Most amalgams used to day contain silver, not gold. Gold amalgam
> should look silvery



Its more of a cement because the specific gravity is only 7. is gold sponge sandy or is it more metal like? I know people pull the base metals and silver out of gold before using aqua regia but this seems to have too much gold and no copper or zinc.


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 23, 2011)

22 karat nugget for reference.


----------



## Lino1406 (Jan 23, 2011)

Difficulty in identifying gold? The ultimate
method is plating a zinc rod with cyanide solution


----------



## Harold_V (Jan 24, 2011)

The color of your solution is quite pale---too pale to have much gold dissolved. You may be on the right track assuming you have very little gold present. Or not. 

What is the remaining material I see in the bottom? Does it go in to solution with more HCl and chlorine? 

It would help tremendously if you'd stop talking in riddles. Complete disclosure of information has a wonderful way of informing those of us that may be able to help. 

While it's nice to see, a nugget doesn't help in the least. You are not dealing with nuggets---you are dealing with something that has been altered considerably. What would be helpful is knowing how.

Harold


----------



## carcrossguy (Jan 24, 2011)

Strangely, if you break a piece in half you can see that the yellow is spread evenly yet when it sits in hcl/cl you only see silver. I guess any gold goes immediately into solution but the silver takes longer.


----------



## carcrossguy (Feb 4, 2011)

Seems to be all silver and gold and only 2% other. I guess I was slightly pessimistic when I said 5% gold. Does this mean that there is no platinum? I remember an old assay of the gold from that area and I remember at least a tiny fraction of other precious metals.

Here are the results of the assay.

Sample Weight : 1.64 gm. 
Bead Weight : 1.61 gm.

Purity of Raw Material : 98.171%, yielding 1.61 grams of Dore.
1 oz of raw material will yield 0.98171 oz of dore at a purity of 93% Au.


1825.9806 lbs of Au per ton of raw material.
137.4394 lbs of Ag per ton of raw material.

0.9129903 oz of Au per oz of raw material.
0.0687197 oz of Ag per oz of raw material.


----------

