# telecom, UPS, IBM scrap



## Anonymous (Mar 19, 2010)

Well I'm about to order my first gold refining kit guys! My family is in the cable tv and junk business, over the years we have ammassed hundreds of cable tv amplifiers, satalite recievers, descramblers, modulators, and even have an old Nortel Meridian SL-1 with about 12 inserts, a couple 18kw or larger UPS units (automatic lots of circuit boards), and I have several old IBM motherboards, the type that have like 8 finger slots per board... early eighties GOLD there.

Now I'm very confident I can handle the chemical process, after all I have been a blaster underground for about 3 yrs now, I think if I'm smart enough to do that I can handle this stuff, it comes with very plain instructions so please don't try to persuade me to not bother with it! The only crucial information I have failed to locate is how I am going to estimate the amount of gold on the electronics? My first batch is going to be fingers, I have about 10 pounds of them ready.

I would very much like to know if anyone could tell me how to estimate my gold weight so I get the amount of solution correct. Also is too much solution better than not enough? I would assume so right?

Also do you think the telecommunications equipment will be worth picking apart and smashing up all the components searching for gold? I know the satallite equipment will probably have a decent yield, but the RF amplifiers I'm not sure of.. so far all I have found are some pins on the models that have plugin units like Phillips Magnavox, General Instrument, and SA.. the cheaper units don't even have gold on the pins though I haven't started cracking open components yet.

As a whole I can get .20 cents a pound scrapping them whole, half of the weight is aluminum I'm wondering if I would be better off just selling it that way. However if there is more money to be made.. in this economy I'm desperate. I had dreamed of starting a new cable company with all this stuff but being its 1980's 450 mghz tops stuff and being that they don't even use C band transmissions anymore, I'm stuck with the junk may as well make every penny I can.

I want to thank you guys before hand, I've already learned much reading through here. I hope I can turn this into a business and start buying scrap electronics like I do copper and other metals.

Thanks!


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 19, 2010)

Welcome to the forum.

What kind of kit are you going to order. Not from Shore I hope!!!! :x 

I have torn apart a few boxes like this, found some hard drives, some plated pins, flat packs and other items. It varies what they will have in them as you well know. If you have read enough you will know that no one will be able to give you a definet yield on these items. You are just going to have to process some of them and make the decision for your self if it is worth it. Hopefuly the fingers will give you a desent yield. I would use HCL/Peroxide on the fingers, juse be careful how much peroxide you use because you can disolve your gold using too much.

I would be interested in what you find because I have a friend that knows a lady with a building full of thses things but I think she has grander ideas on what the stuff is worth. I told him to offer her a couple of dollars a piece for them and I think she laughed at him.

Under ground blaster, that is interesting. The master blaster from thunder dome. 8)


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## Anonymous (Mar 20, 2010)

Yeah I found a post that basically told me it varies huge, but they mentioned 1 gram per pound as a guideline. However having cut the fingers off the boards wouldn't the yield be a little greater than that?


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 20, 2010)

Unfortunately not necessarily. That yield would be with the fingers off the board, if the weight of the board were included the return would be much much lower.


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## Oz (Mar 20, 2010)

You have asked us not to try to dissuade you from buying your kit, fair enough, you have made a decision. However when it comes to helping you if you run into a problem, we will all be unable to help until we know what you have bought and are trying to use.


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## nickvc (Mar 20, 2010)

Im with you on that Oz........ lets hope it isnt a high price set up


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## Harold_V (Mar 20, 2010)

dhcracker said:


> it comes with very plain instructions so please don't try to persuade me to not bother with it!


Sure enough. And, please, don't come whining and crying to this group when you find you've been taken to the cleaners. If you don't have the wisdom it takes to accept advice based on practical experience, I see no reason why any of us should waste our time bailing you out when everything goes south on the promises you've been made. Besides, your three years of underground blasting should lead the way. I understand they are closely related, so you'd have little need to hear from those of us that live in the real world. 

Oh, yeah! Good luck!

Harold


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## silversaddle1 (Mar 20, 2010)

Once again, Harold is spot on!

"nuff said!


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## Anonymous (Mar 20, 2010)

Harold_V said:


> dhcracker said:
> 
> 
> > it comes with very plain instructions so please don't try to persuade me to not bother with it!
> ...



Wow someone hasn't had their coffee this morning! Was I really that hateful in my request? I am coming from another forum where nobody would tell you anything and acted like the process was over my head or something, sometimes people do not want you to know how to refine your scrap because it takes money out of their pocket in a round about way. I'm just trying to head off any of that type of response, not the type to which you seem to point towards here in your example.

I am using nitric acid and muriatic acid, urea, ...some other compound I forgot the name of in powder form. I've got my instructions from that one site that pops up top three in google, however the chemicals I found cheaper from a real chemical supplier (don't know about advertising here), by no means am I refusing any advice on methodology or alternate chemicals, I'm just refusing anyone that would tell me I can't do it or shouldn't as their response to my inquiry.

I apologize if you took that as refusing your expertise, I can see how that might be offensive. But why would I do that and ask for help? No I just don't want to hear somebody try to tell me they think I can't refine my own gold cause I know people do it all the time, and I'm no average joe either I've not set my house on fire once! lol you get what I'm saying right?


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## patnor1011 (Mar 20, 2010)

If you spend some time here and read throught posts here you will find that we are happy to help and nobody is hiding any info from anyone. Informations here are shared and help from experienced people is granted to anyone willing to learn and listen. However if you have another source of informations and special kits, powders and juices to use, do so freely but in case of some problem you will have to contact them as we are not wizards or fortune tellers as we dont know what they are using as their reagents and so on. What is strange I dont understand why people using and buying "special kits" when you can just pop up to any hardware shop to get basic chemicals for next to nothing. If you want to start with fingers all you need is HCl, H2O2, Clorox and SMB. You are buying special kit where HCl is called "Liquid one", H2O2 is called "Liquid two", Clorox is called "Liquid three" and SMB "Magic Bullet" or "Philosopher's stone powder"....

Invest some of your time reading throught this forum and if you are good learner you will have no need to ask questions about how to process fingers or what the estimated gold yield is as all this was discused over and over many times.

Btw - you became member 24 minutes before you fired your first post and 7 hours after that you are taking piss from one of the founders of this forum and person who spend more years refining gold than your age is... No offence but if you want to get something you have to invest first. I mean that you have to invest time into education. If you are so confident in your "special kit and methods" why wasting your time on this forum? Your original source of informations must be much better - you are paying for it....


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## leavemealone (Mar 20, 2010)

> dhcracker wrote:
> it comes with very plain instructions so please don't try to persuade me to not bother with it!





> Harold wrote:
> Sure enough. And, please, don't come whining and crying to this group when you find you've been taken to the cleaners. If you don't have the wisdom it takes to accept advice based on practical experience, I see no reason why any of us should waste our time bailing you out when everything goes south on the promises you've been made. Besides, your three years of underground blasting should lead the way. I understand they are closely related, so you'd have little need to hear from those of us that live in the real world.





> Wow someone hasn't had their coffee this morning! Was I really that hateful in my request? I am coming from another forum where nobody would tell you anything and acted like the process was over my head or something, sometimes people do not want you to know how to refine your scrap because it takes money out of their pocket in a round about way. I'm just trying to head off any of that type of response, not the type to which you seem to point towards here in your example.


I very seldom make promises unless I know that what I speak of is a fact.Well I make this promise to you dhcracker,Harold can be rough around the edges sometimes,but making fun of him is not something anyone on this forum will put up with.I am not trying to me rude here,I am trying to warn you.



> I apologize if you took that as refusing your expertise, I can see how that might be offensive. But why would I do that and ask for help? No I just don't want to hear somebody try to tell me they think I can't refine my own gold cause I know people do it all the time, and I'm no average joe either I've not set my house on fire once! lol you get what I'm saying right?



Your first sentence contradicts what you were wanting.You wanted our advice and help......as long as our advice was not for you to not purchase that kit.That is why harold is upset!It is personally frusterating on my end too considering I recently spent countless days trying to help a member that purchased one of "those" kits and soon found himself with product that didnt work as stated,and NOONE on the other end willing to help him.I am not telling you this to make excuses for what harold said.I agree with him,its not fair that you ask us to help you,but only if it falls under your guidelines.Since your kit came with plain instructions,I wish you the best of luck in the future,as I feel you will not be getting much help here.
Johnny
P.S.Good morning patnor.its getting warmer..... 8)


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## patnor1011 (Mar 20, 2010)

Yeah Johnny, after few days of rain and darkness we had some sunshine last 3-4 hours but weather is changing very quick over here and it looks like more rain is comming. Btw are you comming to Ireland this summer? Last time you said something like that so thats why I am asking.


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## leavemealone (Mar 20, 2010)

Yeh mary and the kids want to come over.I'll have to see what it will cost.Are you able to meet us at the aiport if we get there?I will need a tour guide!!! lol(I'll make sure and bring some scrap as payment...... :mrgreen:


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## shyknee (Mar 20, 2010)

dhcracker
the advise the members of this forum is giving freely is all good. no one here wants you not to try it .they just want you to be smart about it.
read the forum then read some more until understand that everyone that posted on your thread is only trying to help you.
if you do not be leave this then you need to read more and more untill you understand they only want to help .
So good reading hope you have fun ask questions we will help if you listen. be safe.be kind.be smart.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 20, 2010)

It depens what airport. I am living about 20km from Shannon airport and have no problem to be there. I can go to Cork airport too as it is about 100km but Dublin is too far for me. We can do something with your stay in here too - if you will be happy wit one not very big bedroom and one small room. :mrgreen: 
I think that we will move to next level in this discussion - the PM level hehehe...


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## qst42know (Mar 20, 2010)

If you believe



> very plain instructions



are a viable substitute for hundreds of years of combined practical experience, by all means buy your over priced kit. :roll:


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## Anonymous (Mar 20, 2010)

OHHH I see now!

Let me clear this up, I was in no way shape or form saying help me but don't tell me not to buy this kit. I was trying to say help me but please don't discourage me from trying. I apologize I have no allegiance to any one kit or method, I have only ordered about 40 bucks worth of stuff so its not like I don't want to hear I threw away money I'm sure even if I don't use the process I've researched.. and yes it is the process mentioned earlier from shor . 

I was not aware of any other process, and I'm sorry I offended anyone that was definately not my intention. Nor am I making fun of anybody, I humbly apologize. Here I am a rookie and an idiot and I will not pretend to be otherwise, I will always respect you guys as mentors, and you are correct had I read more than 7 minutes I wouldn't have been worried about being discouraged from refining my own gold scrap.

So my fault for rushing, I hope you guys can accept my humble apology. I surely did not want to come off as smarty pants and i apparently did. Maybe my ex wife is right about me lol.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 20, 2010)

You are ok. Anybody can make mistake and true man is who can admit that. Nobody think that you are idiot, lots of us /and I did that too/ jump high when gold dlitters and want answers quick but patience is what we need. I am currently filtering pins third time becouse I was too quick two times and overdid filter.... :mrgreen:


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## Palladium (Mar 20, 2010)

Yep, i like the guy. 

Fingers are easy and a good place to start your learning adventure. Look in my sig line below and start reading all you can find. If you have a question ask it. There are no stupid questions, only stupid excuses for not asking a stupid question in the first place. 

Welcome to the forum.


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## Palladium (Mar 20, 2010)

Oh yeah, go to Lazersteve's website http://www.goldrecovery.us/ and watch his video's on finger processing.


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## leavemealone (Mar 20, 2010)

> So my fault for rushing, I hope you guys can accept my humble apology. I surely did not want to come off as smarty pants and i apparently did. Maybe my ex wife is right about me lol.


Well I will be the first to give you a thumbsup.Several years ago I said things so much worse than the statement you made,(it was under a different name that has long since been closed,so don't try to find it)I took months to reverse the damage I caused on the forum.There are very few members here that remember that fight,and I am glad for that.I promise that the comment you made was nothing compared to the comments I made,and you have apologized almost immediately.I assure you that harold will come around,there are very few people on the forum that have known harold longer than I have,so I can say with a clear mind....If he can forgive me after what I did,he will forgive you.


> I have only ordered about 40 bucks worth of stuff so its not like I don't want to hear I threw away money I'm sure even if I don't use the process I've researched.. and yes it is the process mentioned earlier from shor .


I,as well as many others here,have lost hundreds if not thousands of dollars over the years trying something new.I personally never purchased anythign from shor,and have no intentions to.I helped a member not too long ago that made a very large purchase from shor and I believe he has since thrown the product away.However he gave me some of the chemicals and I did some testing on my own.I am not clear on what your experience is in the "chemical"side of recovering and refining so I won't go into what my results were,however it was dissapointing at best.I am just glad you don't have that much invested in them at this point.
I am not sure what you have read or seen,so as my buddy steve(lazersteve) says,I'll give you the nickle tour.
This is steves website http://www.goldrecovery.us/site.asp you will be spending plenty of time at his site.There are many videos and countless PDF files loaded with info.With the exception of chemicals,he sells virtually everything that he uses in his videos so everyone has access to the proper equipment.He also sells DVD's of the different processes(and accepts donations via paypal).Steve,Harold,and Noxx are the founding members of this forum.Noxx is the owner,he'll post funny stuff every now and then.
Here is the forum Handbook http://www.scribd.com/doc/2887935/GOLD-REFINING-FORUM-HANBOOK-VOL-1
It will be your "new age guide" here.There is endless amounts of wisdom inside.
If you are unfamiliar with chemistry,basic or advanced,here is a good book http://tinyurl.com/yjgvufp

And here is your Bible http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs
This is "Refinging Precious Metal Wastes"by C.M.Hoke.
She wrote this in the early 1900's and it has provided infinite amounts knowledge.
Well This will get you started on your journey.
Johnny
HA looks like I am a bit late.Well good luck bud.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 20, 2010)

dhcracker said:


> OHHH I see now!
> 
> Let me clear this up, I was in no way shape or form saying help me but don't tell me not to buy this kit. I was trying to say help me but please don't discourage me from trying. I apologize I have no allegiance to any one kit or method, I have only ordered about 40 bucks worth of stuff so its not like I don't want to hear I threw away money I'm sure even if I don't use the process I've researched.. and yes it is the process mentioned earlier from shor .
> 
> ...



This was like a Dean Martin roast. Everyone is up early this morning and on a Saturday...

dhcracker, try this. Take 1lb of your fingers and process them with the shore system, and take one pound and process using the HCL/Peroxide technique and see what the difference will be on your outcome. The people here will help you as much as you want their help. 8)


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## shyknee (Mar 20, 2010)

SEE 
they only want to help .that is what this forum is all about
Im not sure if it is just refining or if its about people helping people .
_READ 
i have been reading for 2 years on here and im still learning new things every day.
patience, grasshopper.


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## nickvc (Mar 20, 2010)

Welcome to the forum dhcracker,this really is a good place to be, the knowledge and experience is amazing and it can all be had for free.As you found an attitude wins no friends here, but your apology was good and im sure your going to thank god you made it when that first button sits in your hand courtesy of the many members who will be only to pleased to help.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 20, 2010)

Second strike. I just deleted 4 posts. Keep this personal crap (and wound photos) off the forum. That's what PMs are for. You know who I'm talking to.


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## Harold_V (Mar 20, 2010)

dhcracker said:


> I hope you guys can accept my humble apology. I surely did not want to come off as smarty pants and i apparently did. Maybe my ex wife is right about me lol.


Now put your money where your mouth is, and start reading Hoke. Read Hoke until you understand what she tells you. At that point, you will have very few questions. 

Be aware that Hoke does NOT address e scrap. However, if you understand her teachings, you will then have the necessary knowledge that will allow you to deal with gold in virtually all forms. 

For the record, we do NOT discourage people from refining on this forum. What we do try to do is discourage them from being stupid. 

I had a professional refiner laugh in my face when I told him I wanted to learn to refine gold. "You'll never do it", I was told. Over the long haul, he lost his customers to me. I got the last laugh. 

Harold


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## butcher (Mar 20, 2010)

Dhcracker, welcome to the forum, some reason kentucky boy's get missunderstood on their first post.
but stick in there and you will find a world of education here.
with some fun studying and reading, you will soon be melting some very pure gold, good luck from an ole kentucky boy.


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## Anonymous (Mar 20, 2010)

Thanks guys,

I'm reading up on HCI and H2O2 now, I know H202 can be used to purify many solvents so it makes sense what I am hearing here. As experienced refiners I would be a fool to continue with the shore method, so I'll just keep what I ordered to make an aluminum cleaner or a copper dissolver.. I'll find a good use for what I have already ordered other than Gold.

I took some pictures of the cream of the crop:

These came from the Nortel Meridian phone switch, the small coils I cannot tell if they are just copper plated or gold plated. The big coil is copper I just put it in for comparison... yes I am color blind when shades get close it messes with me lol. Coils look gold?







This is one of the compaq's the IBM's are almost identical in setup... lots of fingers. I have 14 of these old pc's total:


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## Anonymous (Mar 20, 2010)

Harold_V said:


> dhcracker said:
> 
> 
> > I hope you guys can accept my humble apology. I surely did not want to come off as smarty pants and i apparently did. Maybe my ex wife is right about me lol.
> ...



Right before I registered the EXACT same thing happened to me, and last week it happened as well. So now I am bound and determined to learn this, my grandpa once told my mother the only way to make sure I do something is to tell me that I can't do it lol. I am reviewing a few of the links I already got, as soon as I have this material saved locally I am going to put my money in my mouth and read up on this Hoke.

Thanks again, as I strip more scrap I'll share with you guys what I am getting by pictures and videos so you will know what to expect if you run into this type of scrap again.


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## leavemealone (Mar 20, 2010)

I will be happy to see your material and how you've progressed.Don't forget we are here to help should you get stumped.
Good luck.
Johnny


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## qst42know (Mar 20, 2010)

Take a small torch flame to a bit of the light coil, It is likely a blond color varnish on copper.


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## Harold_V (Mar 21, 2010)

qst42know said:


> Take a small torch flame to a bit of the light coil, It is likely a blond color varnish on copper.


It may also be a beryllium copper spring, heat treated in a controlled atmosphere.
Yeah, I know-----not likely, but it doesn't hurt to consider all options when dealing with the unknown. 

Harold


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## Oz (Mar 21, 2010)

With all the electronic scrap the members here tend to run I am amazed that so little attention is given to the hazards of beryllium.


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## qst42know (Mar 21, 2010)

Right. Better safe than sorry. 

Look very close at the soldered ends under magnification for discolored of bubbled varnish.

A red hot nail or solder iron would affect the varnish without changing what was under it.


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## Anonymous (Mar 21, 2010)

No discoloration, when you scratch it you see that it is plating and a silvery metal is the base probably zinc? It is far softer than other copper springs of the same size. Those coils actually came out of cable tv splitters I forgot to mention, not the little splitters at your house but the ones on the poles that split the signal and the AC power on the main line.


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## Irons (Mar 21, 2010)

dhcracker said:


> No discoloration, when you scratch it you see that it is plating and a silvery metal is the base probably zinc? It is far softer than other copper springs of the same size. Those coils actually came out of cable tv splitters I forgot to mention, not the little splitters at your house but the ones on the poles that split the signal and the AC power on the main line.



Not likely to be worth anything but copper scrap. It's just an inductor, part of the RF trap.


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## Anonymous (Mar 21, 2010)

Oz said:


> With all the electronic scrap the members here tend to run I am amazed that so little attention is given to the hazards of beryllium.



Oz I started a thread Microwave's and mentioned then that the purple ceramics and possibly others from the magnetron contained beryllium, the copper reeds that the various contact points are generally connected too contain beryllium, many brass/copper colored springs used in switching gear and relays also a beryllium/copper alloy.

gustavus


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## Anonymous (Mar 21, 2010)

dhcracker said:


> Maybe my ex wife is right about me lol.



Woman are known for their intuition.


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## Anonymous (Mar 21, 2010)

gustavus said:


> Oz said:
> 
> 
> > With all the electronic scrap the members here tend to run I am amazed that so little attention is given to the hazards of beryllium.
> ...



These are air coils, I'm not certain about being part of the FM trap because there are not enough windings. Thats the large coils I know that from replacing them, these small coils have AC current on them in operation. However the large coil pictured is not a trap its a power coil, however the high pass filter is the same almost without the center piece.. also an air coil. I have thought that since there are few windings it may be a low pass filter for the reverse channel that cable systems use for internet and digital services, as being such I think its possible these are actually gold plated but I doubt it really. Thats all I know about those, the only discoloration I have found though is in the solder on the ends. The very small coils inside the purple plastic are also a mystery to me. I'm going to find out exactly what these are from a CATV supplier then I'll check back.

However I don't think this is berrylium copper, the only RF components I know of that contain berrylium are transistor faceplates on transistors in RF transmitters, but CATV line gear is not high power so generally you won't see it in this stuff unless maybe on contacts to resist corrosion. Also the coils are very soft where berrylium copper would be stiffer. The AC current that goes throug a typical CATV line can range from 60V to 90VAC, while the active components operate on 12-24VDC. These pieces are passives so they have AC current passing through them. But I'm going to be safe and not melt anything until I get some parts specs from manufacturer.


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## Harold_V (Mar 21, 2010)

There would be no advantage in using beryllium copper unless it was heat treated, so if the coil in question is soft, my money says it's nothing but copper. 

For the record, beryllium copper in the annealed state is very soft. Easily formed by hand. 

Harold


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## lazersteve (Mar 21, 2010)

Coils used in power circuits are termed RFC, Radio Frequency Chokes, or Chokes for slang.

They function by blocking AC and passing DC. The number of turns is a design characteristic to allow them to block noisy AC (interference) while passing the desired (resonant) AC frequency. Here's a few calculators that will assist you in determining what frequency a coil will operate at:

Radio Calculators


The windings are enameled copper, I see no design requirement for them to be gold.

Steve


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