# strange reaction , advice needed



## donald7755 (Apr 12, 2017)

i have some gold plated parts that come from audio wall plates . i ran a small experiment to see if i could do these in a AP/HCL process . here's what happened . i placed 3 pieces in a small plastic container , put in 50 ml HCL , then put in 1 ML H2O2 (just to give it a kick start) what happened next is the confusing part . now please bear in mind that i have no idea what the base metal is . this stuff started boiling hard just like you would have put it on a stove and turned it on high . and it boiled for about 20 minutes give or take . then the solution just turned clear and stayed that way for 3 days with no color change or any thing . 

did this boiling action kill the HCL ?

any advice anybody could give and i would thank you greatly .

Donald


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## Refining Rick (Apr 12, 2017)

My guess is that it is aluminum.


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## donald7755 (Apr 12, 2017)

Refining Rick said:


> My guess is that it is aluminum.



i honestly dont think that they are aluminum . they seem to be a harder metal than that . i also dont think it's steel either . it must be some kind of weird alloy mix . i don't know i'm only guessing .


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## anachronism (Apr 12, 2017)

It's often a zinc/copper/nickel alloy.


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## donald7755 (Apr 12, 2017)

anachronism said:


> It's often a zinc/copper/nickel alloy.



ok , can it still be done with the AP/HCL process or do i need to do it another way ?


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## kernels (Apr 12, 2017)

Have you got a LOT of them ?


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## donald7755 (Apr 12, 2017)

kernels said:


> Have you got a LOT of them ?



yeah ,i've not weighed it up but i think it's about 25 to 30 pounds worth . why ?


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## kernels (Apr 12, 2017)

donald7755 said:


> kernels said:
> 
> 
> > Have you got a LOT of them ?
> ...



OK, in that case, the acid way is the wrong way to go.

Can I recommend that you seriously consider a Sulfuric Acid deplating cell. It has some safety risks, but not significantly more dangerous than the acid path. Less waste to deal with. Very simple to build and run.


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## donald7755 (Apr 12, 2017)

kernels said:


> donald7755 said:
> 
> 
> > kernels said:
> ...



thanks for that advice . with the cell would you lose any gold ? ive watched videos on this and it seems like you lose some . perhaps i'm wrong on that .


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## kernels (Apr 12, 2017)

Gold lasts pretty much forever, so you can always recover any lost gold. I don't think the cell in itself loses any gold, the most difficult part is just separating the gold powder from the Sulfuric acid. In my case I'm in no rush, so I just leave it sitting for a few days and wait for the powder to settle before siphoning off the Sulfuric for re-use. You then refine the gold in the normal way.

The nice thing with the Sulfuric cell is that the gold does not dissolve (permanently), it gets dissolved at the surface, then precipitates back out as a black powder straight away. You could set up a basic (largish) cell and do all those connectors in a day. 

With the cell it is just critical to keep the temperature down and use high purity Sulfuric Acid. Other than that, a suitable container, battery charger for power source and multimeter to monitor current is all I use.


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## donald7755 (Apr 12, 2017)

kernels said:


> Gold lasts pretty much forever, so you can always recover any lost gold. I don't think the cell in itself loses any gold, the most difficult part is just separating the gold powder from the Sulfuric acid. In my case I'm in no rush, so I just leave it sitting for a few days and wait for the powder to settle before siphoning off the Sulfuric for re-use. You then refine the gold in the normal way.
> 
> The nice thing with the Sulfuric cell is that the gold does not dissolve (permanently), it gets dissolved at the surface, then precipitates back out as a black powder straight away. You could set up a basic (largish) cell and do all those connectors in a day.
> 
> With the cell it is just critical to keep the temperature down and use high purity Sulfuric Acid. Other than that, a suitable container, battery charger for power source and multimeter to monitor current is all I use.



ok wow that sounds really good . i will study up on this and give it a try because i have never done the cell process before .


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## Yggdrasil (Apr 13, 2017)

Hi!

I would try a few in concentrated sulfuric first, unless you already have built a cell. 
If I'm not mistaken the sulfuric cell is best for copper/steel based base metals.
How Zinc based stuff is reacting to sulfuric I don't know, but a test to be sure might be prudent.

In this matter maybe the ferro/ferric cyanide approach is a better way?


I hope someone with more will step in and give some input around this?


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## anachronism (Apr 13, 2017)

Ferro/ferric is definitely the best way however you need to be skilled enough to do this. It's not something that can safely be done by someone new to refining. Your best solution would be to go and see it done by a member who is technically savvy with it. I do not recommend you doing this yourself regardless of what you see on youtube.

That would be easy over in the UK when the distances are so small, and I understand completely that the same doesn't apply over the pond. 8)

Whilst the sulphuric cell is "theoretically" safer, (personally that's not my view) it has its own demons namely hot concentrated Sulphuric acid which is something else I would struggle to suggest a new member does. I'm not patronising you here Donald please believe me. I'm trying to hit you straight between the eyes with the fact that neither of these processes are forgiving. 

Jon

Edit: 

Actually if you want to get into refining properly then my advice would be to dismantle the units and put these to one side and learn to process simpler material which you CAN do with the basic processes. Then come back to these later on when you're more proficient. It's a steep learning curve. There are two guys on here in particular who recently started out as rookie refiners and have both demonstrated that you can learn quickly and you can end up processing a lot of gear within a short space of time. They have both grasped the nettle (so to speak) and would be great guys to discuss this with because they've travelled this road. So open up a dialogue with TnDavid and Topher and no doubt they will be able to help you get over some of the initial hurdles as quickly as they did. 

That's my 5 cents.


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 13, 2017)

anachronism said:


> Whilst the sulphuric cell is "theoretically" safer, (personally that's not my view) it has its own demons namely hot concentrated Sulphuric acid


I agree that sulfuric acid is hazardous, but if you're running an electrolytic sulfuric stripping cell correctly, you do not let the acid get hot.

Dave


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## Lino1406 (Apr 13, 2017)

This reaction is not strange at all. According with what was put, it is a material reacting to HCl, no need of H2O2 for getting rid of it. To confirm (or negate) aluminum, take a part that reacts, and act on it with caustic soda solution.


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## donald7755 (Apr 13, 2017)

anachronism said:


> Ferro/ferric is definitely the best way however you need to be skilled enough to do this. It's not something that can safely be done by someone new to refining. Your best solution would be to go and see it done by a member who is technically savvy with it. I do not recommend you doing this yourself regardless of what you see on youtube.
> 
> That would be easy over in the UK when the distances are so small, and I understand completely that the same doesn't apply over the pond. 8)
> 
> ...



i am very greatfull for this great advice .


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## donald7755 (Apr 13, 2017)

Lino1406 said:


> To confirm (or negate) aluminum, take a part that reacts, and act on it with caustic soda solution.



how would i do this and what exactly am i looking for :?: :?:


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## anachronism (Apr 13, 2017)

You can clean Al from a base product with a dilute solution of Sodium Hydroxide. That's what Lino is referring to and it's good advice.


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## donald7755 (Apr 13, 2017)

anachronism said:


> You can clean Al from a base product with a dilute solution of Sodium Hydroxide. That's what Lino is referring to and it's good advice.



are you saying that i would need to make a hot solution bath , just like as if i was removing solder masking from circuit boards :?: :?:


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## anachronism (Apr 13, 2017)

It doesn't need to be hot it depends on how much of a rush you are in. Hot lye isn't a good substance.


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## Lino1406 (Apr 13, 2017)

I meant, if aluminum is confirmed, you can also use HCl to consume it not necessarily NaOH, to avoid rinsing. Then decant and proceed to normal procedure - meaning A/P to consume copper and nickel


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## kurtak (Apr 14, 2017)

Though this type connecters are often made of aluminum - they can also be die cast which is primarily zinc

To confirm aluminum - or - zinc - test with nitric

Both aluminum & zinc will react with HCl

Aluminum does "not" react with nitric - but - does react with zinc

Kurt


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## donald7755 (Apr 15, 2017)

anachronism said:


> It doesn't need to be hot it depends on how much of a rush you are in. Hot lye isn't a good substance.



will the lye strip the gold off and then i refine as normal ?


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