# Hammond L102 Organ



## skeeter629

I have been offered a free Hammond L102 organ.  Does anyone have any experience with them? I am wondering what is the approximate PM value to be expected. Jimdoc, I know you have in the past, but any further information would be nice.


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## jimdoc

skeeter629 said:


> I have been offered a free Hammond L102 organ. Does anyone have any experience with them? I am wondering what is the approximate PM value to be expected. Jimdoc, I know you have in the past, but any further information would be nice.



I would guess about 2 dwt of palladium, it should be similar to an M-2 or M-3.

Jim


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## jimdoc

I just checked my notes, and the L102 has two 44 key sections like the M-2 and M-3. So I think the 2 dwt guess for palladium should be a good one.

There may be palladium wire contacts in the foot pedals also, so don't forget to check them.
Organs are a hassle to deal with, but free palladium makes it worth it for me. The newer ones aren't worth going to far out of your way for. The last one I did had 1978 dates on it, and had very little palladium in it. The older ones have palladium all along the bussbars and each contact. The newer one had smaller contacts on the bussbar that are not pure palladium. 

Jim


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## skeeter629

Thank you very much for the information. I stripped the L102 and picked up a Lowrey model DS this evening. This one is pretty old. I haven't seen this many tubes in quite a long time. So far I haven't found anything inside this one worth saving....Oh well free is still free. If you have any notes on this model, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts.


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## publius

The tubes will be worth more on eBay and other vintage electronic sites than as potential PM scrap...


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## skeeter629

That is what I am planning on. I don't want to mess with the tubes. I will put them in a lot on ebay and see where they go.


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## element47

Also see if there is a separate chassis that is an audio amplifier. Those are popular on ebay with hobbyists who want to modify them into guitar amps. Include the tubes. By the way, most of those tubes are 12AX7s, which are popular tubes, especially if they are all the same brand (which they will be) SPECIAL value if they are RCAs.


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## skeeter629

I finish the Hammond L102. Here is the bright and shiny palladium button that I recovered from the contacts like in the picture posted by pimpneightez here; 
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=14161#p142185.

I just want to say again thank you all for inspiration and information.


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## manorman

if you get the organs with the leslie speakers, those speakers can be worth some money last time i checked.
Mike


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## pimpneightez

Nice button. Is that just off the bussbar or is it from the copper tips as well. How did you do your melt. Did you do a HCL wash first or just melt it as is? what kind of torch did you use?


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## skeeter629

The button is just from the copper tips. I snipped the tips with wire cutters, then I put them into a 50/50 nitric solution. It only took about 2 minutes for the copper to be eaten away and left the palladium strips sitting in the bottom of the beaker. I rinsed them 5 times with hot water, then placed them in a ceramic dish. I heated them in the dish to drive off the water. I then placed them into a lightly glazed melting dish, and melted them with a Oxy/Propane torch. I used the cutting torch head to get the most heat possible. I don't have a oxy/hydrogen torch yet.


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## pimpneightez

This button was just from the bussbar not the copper tip pieces. I will drop them In HCL at a later date. I was going to do a wash with HCL but the wire looked really clean after I gave it an incineration. There was some grease residue or flux still left on the bussbar when I stripped the wire off. 
OXY-Acetylene melted it right quick. I used an old 2x4 for a melting dish. It's total weight was 2.8 grams.


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## nickvc

I hope you tested your nitric solution or added it to your stockpot as it will dissolve palladium.


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## goldsilverpro

Nitric will definitely dissolve some of the Pd. 

The only thing I found to dissolve the copper without dissolving the Pd was a combination of sulfuric acid, water, and chromic acid. It's been 25 years, but I'm thinking it was 50/50 sulfuric (it may have been slightly weaker than this) with about 300g/l hexavalent chromic acid. This is a very, very dangerous solution, BTW. I don't think the solution was heated but it may have been. If so, that makes it even more dangerous.

After using the above solution, there will still be nickel of the back of the Pd point. This can be dissolved without dissolving Pd by using hot concentrated HCl.


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## skeeter629

nickvc said:


> I hope you tested your nitric solution or added it to your stockpot as it will dissolve palladium.




Nick, I did put the solution into the stockpot. 

I love to scrap organs. Once I pull everything out of them, I take them out back and start swinging an 8lb sledge hammer at the remains. It is a good way to take out stress.


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## jimdoc

skeeter629 said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love to scrap organs. Once I pull everything out of them, I take them out back and start swinging an 8lb sledge hammer at the remains. It is a good way to take out stress.
Click to expand...


If any of the people who have donated a Hammond to me would have a chance to see it within two to three hours after, they would be in total shock.

Jim


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## pimpneightez

I just had my button analyzed by one of those x-ray testers at the junk yard. I used no chemical processes to get the palladium off the contact points and bussbar. Alot of people have been saying there is some nickle in the bussbar contact. I mixed all the wire together and made one big button. The results were 99% pure palladium.


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## kurt

What was the total recovery - I just picked one up a couple days ago

Kurt


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## jimdoc

kurt said:


> What was the total recovery - I just picked one up a couple days ago
> 
> Kurt




What model # did you pick up?

Jim


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## pimpneightez

Mine was something like an e-111. I didn't wiegh it but its about 5-6 grams


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## jimdoc

pimpneightez said:


> Mine was something like an e-111. I didn't wiegh it but its about 5-6 grams




If it had a large foot pedal assembly there may be more in there.

Jim


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## pimpneightez

It didnt have any of those wooden foot pedals. Just one black metal foot pedal. didn't see any PM's in it.


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## kurt

I didn't actually get the whole orgin just these part of it. I was told it was made in the mid to late 50s

Kurt


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## jimdoc

kurt said:


> I didn't actually get the whole orgin just these part of it. I was told it was made in the mid to late 50s
> 
> Kurt



That would probably be an M-2 or M-3. If you got both keypad sections with the bussbars and contacts, you should get about 2 dwt of palladium.

Jim


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## jimdoc

Looks like 44 keys per section, so maybe a little less than that, I will have to check my notes to see if M-2s and M-3s had 61 or 44 keys per section.

Jim
Edit to add;

M-2s and M-3s had 44 keys per section, so 2 dwt of palladium guess should be good.

http://www.jackhollow.co.uk/hammond/modellist/index.html


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## skeeter629

I am picking up another Hammond this weekend. I am not sure of the model number, but free is free. 8) If nothing else, I still get free copper wire from it.


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## Golddigger Greg

I picked up a two Hammond organs this week quite by accident. One was from my step-father who had to make room for another Hammond organ he got from a local funeral home. While researching what I had, I came across an ad for the exact same model to be given away, so I grabbed that one too! (Thanks to jimdoc for the advise)
Both are Model F-2000, which is after they went to the transistor style. I will post on the results from the tear-down of these two units as I have time to work on them. All I've done so far is gut the carcasses, separate the electronics from all the wire, and salvage some of the parts my step-father wants. (Leslie motors and cross-overs)

I should note for all of you that are taking these Hammonds apart that, in addition to the tubes mentioned in earlier posts, the mechanical tone generators are sought after by rebuilders of Hammond organs commanding in the range of $400.00! (I'm told) The sound quality of these units are prized by R&B organ players worldwide, especially the B-3's. Taking a sledgehammer to these is sacrilege of the highest order! (I happen to love blues organ wailing from a Leslie speaker; in case you hadn't guessed. :mrgreen: )


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## skeeter629

I have a Hammond M3 you can have for free if you come pick it up this weekend. Just kidding....I guess you don't want to drive down to Missouri from Canada to pick one up. i guess I will have to scrap it. Gotta love free organs on Craigslist. They just keep coming, and I keep getting them.


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## Golddigger Greg

Go figure! I found another free one that I pick up tomorrow night. This one is a 1965, but the lady has no idea what model; just that it has a mahogany finish. Fingers crossed! :mrgreen:


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## jimdoc

Golddigger Greg said:


> Go figure! I found another free one that I pick up tomorrow night. This one is a 1965, but the lady has no idea what model; just that it has a mahogany finish. Fingers crossed! :mrgreen:



I guess an M-3, but maybe an M-2.
They seem to have been very popular.

Jim


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## Golddigger Greg

It's a J-111, and verrry dirty inside! No mechanical tone generator, Leslie, drawbars, or any of those really cool white/gold eproms that I can see.  I will keep all the stuff from this one separate as well for yield comparisons. 
Edit: I processed the copper contacts from the keyboards from this unit at the same time as the F2000's, using the same methods but instead of using heated reactions, I processed these at ambiant temperatures using a HCl soak for two days, then adding ~100ml CuCl to soak for an additional 2 days. The wires were left (mostly) intact by this method, and yielded .25g Pd wire/powder after washes, filtering, and drying.


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## Golddigger Greg

Golddigger Greg said:


> I picked up a two Hammond organs this week quite by accident. One was from my step-father who had to make room for another Hammond organ he got from a local funeral home. While researching what I had, I came across an ad for the exact same model to be given away, so I grabbed that one too! (Thanks to jimdoc for the advise)
> Both are Model F-2000, which is after they went to the transistor style. I will post on the results from the tear-down of these two units as I have time to work on them. All I've done so far is gut the carcasses, separate the electronics from all the wire, and salvage some of the parts my step-father wants. (Leslie motors and cross-overs)
> 
> I should note for all of you that are taking these Hammonds apart that, in addition to the tubes mentioned in earlier posts, the mechanical tone generators are sought after by rebuilders of Hammond organs commanding in the range of $400.00! (I'm told) The sound quality of these units are prized by R&B organ players worldwide, especially the B-3's. Taking a sledgehammer to these is sacrilege of the highest order! (I happen to love blues organ wailing from a Leslie speaker; in case you hadn't guessed. :mrgreen: )


I had some time today to compare the two F2000' foot pedal assemblies. On one the contact housings are marked 'Acetone', the others' are unmarked. The Acetone marked contacts yielded .48g and the unmarked yielded .30g from the same number of contacts. The Acetone's came from Serial# series EGxxxxx, whereas the unmarked came from Serial# series FHxxxxx.
Added: In addition to the contacts recovered from the foot pedal assemblies, I trimmed the copper contact points (10.6g) from the keyboards from the two units and hard boiled them in 300ml HCl, with very little reaction over two days. So I added ~150ml CuCl to the reaction and hard boiled it for about 3 hours and let it cool. I filtered and washed the solids, and re-boiled in ~150ml fresh HCl for another hour. After washing and filtering, the end result was .56g of grey Pd powder.


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## DarkspARCS

I'm very curious...

I don't know what model or how old the hammond I discovered dumped in the alley way is, but I do know that the wire harness from the tone generator alone so far has yielded 13.5 grams... and I'm not even halfway finished removing the white cloth jackets from what remains...


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## skeeter629

DarkspARCS said:


> I'm very curious...
> 
> I don't know what model or how old the hammond I discovered dumped in the alley way is, but I do know that the wire harness from the tone generator alone so far has yielded 13.5 grams... and I'm not even halfway finished removing the white cloth jackets from what remains...



DarkspARCS, 13.5 grams of what? PD? I have a question about the white cloth jackets....I have tested the wire under them, and I have mixed results. What kind of metal have you tested it as?


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## DarkspARCS

the metal under the white cloth jackets should be palladium. the wires closely associated with the white jacketed wires (green jackets and red jackets) contain alluminum wires.


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## jimdoc

The only palladium will be the thin wires tack welded onto the end of the contacts, and along the bussbars where they make contact.

Jim


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## Golddigger Greg

Well, the 6th time is the charm! After 5 fairly dud-ish organs, I finally scored a Hammond L133! It has the mechanical tone generator, full drawbars and palladium contact wire on the bussbars, and lots of vacuum tubes! It was free, but came with a cost in that my wife had to help carry it down a flight of stairs from the ladies' apartment. She certainly raised some eyebrows as this ~100lb woman hoisted one end of a ~300lb organ! :shock: She must like me because she's been there for all 6, although she's told me if we ever come across a G-1, I'm on my own! (They weigh in at 545lbs!)


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## Auggie

I hope you guys are checking the re-sale value of these Hammonds as complete organs. Anything in the B-series would be sacrilege to scrap.


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## Golddigger Greg

Auggie said:


> I hope you guys are checking the re-sale value of these Hammonds as complete organs. Anything in the B-series would be sacrilege to scrap.


 :lol: You're singing to the choir in my case! The tear-down of this unit will probably take me twice as long as the last 5; the various parts are ear-marked for my B3-playing stepfather. Dibs on any that he doesn't want go to another Hammond parts guy I met online. I just get the palladium....,aww shucks!


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## Golddigger Greg

As I was taking apart the L133 tonight I noticed that the top tab assembly was different than any I'd run across before, and lo and behold I found some more Pd wire! Here is a picture of the type I'd seen before, which I suspect to be silver, but still need confirm with Schwerters' solution:

And here is a picture of one of the tab assemblies from the L133:

And finally, a close-up of the contact wires. There is also a single piece of Pd wire tacked horizontally onto the backside of the brass piece.


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## hungry

Does anyone know anything about a Harmond V-170?
ED


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## jimdoc

This pdf lists it at late sixties early seventies. Should be worth checking out.

The Blue Book of HAMMOND

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7psw8WhQX2oAFiAPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByc2FtNTRpBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkAw--/SIG=13gri3sdt/EXP=1349083568/**http%3a//www.musifix.nl/Web-data/Brochures/BlueBook%2520CompleteHammond/TheBlueBookHammond.pdf


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## hungry

Jimdoc
Thank you for your fast reply.
ED


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## Golddigger Greg

...and they keep on coming! I just found a 1961 M-101 for free pick up about two hours from me. It was church unit, and from what I've read are the ones that least need a Leslie to enhance the sound. I can't wait to go get this beauty!


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## jimdoc

Another reference book for organs, it is a 3 part pdf.

Organ Blue Book - 1985-1986
http://archive.org/details/OrganBlueBook-1985-1986


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## Golddigger Greg

Golddigger Greg said:


> ...and they keep on coming! I just found a 1961 M-101 for free pick up about two hours from me. It was church unit, and from what I've read are the ones that least need a Leslie to enhance the sound. I can't wait to go get this beauty!



Thanks for the link Jim! If I read that before I'd have been able to determine that this unit didn't come with the spinette like I thought. I am hoping to keep this one for my grandsons to learn on, but it needs some work. The building it was in hadn't been looked after for the last 14 years so there is some corrosion on the main power amp and the tonewheel is in dire need of oil. I'll give it the once over and if I can't get it running, I'll part it out.


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## CBentre

Hey this thread has passed by me several times, OK I'm interested. If you were to buy these organs at a good price what would that price be in order to gain a profit? Here is one in my area that is up for $75.00 or best offer, what do you folks think?


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## jimdoc

I just got a newer model from about 1985. Not much at all in it, I think I will pass on any like it in the future. If it has tubes in it, then it should have palladium along the bussbar and on each contact.
M-2s and M-3s and ones like them usually have about 1/10 of a troy ounce of palladium. Plus all the wire, and some brass.

I would guess from the looks of that one that it is newer. Do you have a model number for it?
If you get them for free you can't go wrong except wasting time. I got a junk C-3 years ago, and that one was the best for palladium out of the many I have scrapped.

Jim


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## pimpneightez

It does take a lot of time to gain access to the pd. I would say theres about $115 of Pd
$15 in cu
$2 In insulated CU
and maybe $15 in light iron 

I like to get them for free. Paying $75 seems like your chasing penny's with dollars. Unless you just like getting the Pd out of them and find it relaxing to beat the thing with a sledge hammer and unscrew a million little screw's. I don't know maybe you have an ailment that makes you take things apart then this would perfect for you. I had a guy that lived on my block that OD'd on angle dust. Now he takes apart things in his house like the microwave and outlets. You also have to pick them up and boy are they heavey farkers not to mention gas. If I had to pay tops would be $30. most people just want them out of thier homes. Those prices should be pretty close give or take $20


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## CBentre

pimpneightez said:


> It does take a lot of time to gain access to the pd. I would say theres about $115 of Pd
> $15 in cu
> $2 In insulated CU
> and maybe $15 in light iron
> 
> I like to get them for free. Paying $75 seems like your chasing penny's with dollars. Unless you just like getting the Pd out of them and find it relaxing to beat the thing with a sledge hammer and unscrew a million little screw's. I don't know maybe you have an ailment that makes you take things apart then this would perfect for you. I had a guy that lived on my block that OD'd on angle dust. Now he takes apart things in his house like the microwave and outlets. You also have to pick them up and boy are they heavey farkers not to mention gas. If I had to pay tops would be $30. most people just want them out of thier homes. Those prices should be pretty close give or take $20



So they are worth about $147.00? No I don't like beating things up or taking things apart.lol For argument sakes I look at things as an investment of sorts. If I can invest in this for $75.00 and when I get bored turn it into $145.00 well then I'd say its a keeper. It's a matter of principle, keep the work flowing always have a back up plan. Just like taking apart motors, why settle for $400.00 today when next week you can have $700.00? Yeah some days you make less per hour but then there are days that you make more then some do in months. The people that run out of stuff to do eventually run out of money to.


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## jimdoc

The one I got a few days ago was a Model #124212.
If you pay $75 for one of those you will be highly disappointed.

Jim


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## CBentre

jimdoc said:


> The one I got a few days ago was a Model #124212.
> If you pay $75 for one of those you will be highly disappointed.
> 
> Jim



LOL, thanks JIM. There are a few more M1 types but they want between $500-$800 each.


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## jimdoc

CBentre said:


> jimdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one I got a few days ago was a Model #124212.
> If you pay $75 for one of those you will be highly disappointed.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, thanks JIM. There are a few more M1 types but they want between $500-$800 each.
Click to expand...


Look for free, or place your own wanted ad for junk ones.

Jim


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## jeneje

I found a Hammon L-112 organ today, from what i can find it was made in 1961, looking into the back it has tubes - is it worth buying. I think they will take $50.00 for it.

Ken


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## Pantherlikher

Always check craig's list in the free section.
Unfortunately, I'm out in the boonies here in Denver, Pa but I see old organs at least 2/ week for free. Driving with gas prices and the lack of a good helper makes me pass on them all so far.

BS.
Couldn't carry a tune with a Tunafish...


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## pgms4me

I enjoyed this post. I have scrapped organs on occasion for the last 30 years or more. I have saved the copper contacts and buss wires from several to recover the pgm's later. the value of the hammonds is mainly the tone generators and amplifiers for restorers and collectors as already mentioned.. i test the tubes and have sold them on ebay for 5.00 each. DO NOT overlook older wurlitzer,Conn or Baldwin tube organs. they have tube tone generators and dividers and there can be 50-70 12ax7's/or 6sn7/12sn7;s in older ones) in each organ. Many of those models used Gold wires and contacts for the keyboard and pedal contacts(especially 40's and 50's. if you find any 30's organs the3 tone cabinet amplifiers used 2-4 2a3 tubes . Those amplifier chassis alone with tubes sell for 400-700 dollars on ebay.


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## ilikesilver

so im just kinda wondering, is it only hammonds that have the PM in it, what about other brands?

tim


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## pgms4me

Hello Tim: many other brands have either gold or palladium buss wires/and or contacts. Mostly 30's thru 60's Conn,baldwin,Everett orgatron,schober,allen,rodgers, varies by year and model. the larger church and theater ones having the most content


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## ilikesilver

pgms4me said:


> Hello Tim: many other brands have either gold or palladium buss wires/and or contacts. Mostly 30's thru 60's Conn,baldwin,Everett orgatron,schober,allen,rodgers, varies by year and model. the larger church and theater ones having the most content



thank you for the rresponse pgms4me


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## ilikesilver

so locally in a church there is a busted H262 made in 1969 that they are selling for a *donation*. what do you think, free, nope not this time, but for 50 bucks, would it be worth it? tim


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## Golddigger Greg

I got an L122 delivered to my door as I drank my morning coffee! The guys from the same funeral home that my step-father got his M-series from last year brought one back from a funeral home 90 miles from here. It's in fantastic shape and will be spared from the scrap line, but that means the one I got last year from the run-down church is on the chopping block as it still needs a bit of work on the amp and I don't have room for both of them. I'll trade the trouble of having to re-arrange my shed in a hurry for a 1/10 oz palladium button any day of the week!


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## jimdoc

I just picked up an M101 two days ago. Stripped it down to the bare wood chassis yesterday.
I will probably disassemble the parts down to the palladium bearing parts tomorrow. I was thinking of using the wood to make either a rifle rack or stand. It's the first one I have got in a long time. I had to pass up on another because it was too far away. 

Jim


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