# Might be the best one yet



## steyr223 (Apr 20, 2018)

Gentlemen , lady's
How is everyone
This is going to b good if my calculations are correct
My friend wants me to recover almost 200 lbs (pounds) of jewelry
I believe the bulk is gold plated brass which we have to by at brass scrap prices from the recycling yard so they will not be involved
He gave me about 55grams to see what I could do
What he gave me was 12k and 14k gold filled

Let's just say 55grams of 12k 1/20th
So 50% (27grams) is gold filled
1/5 of 27 is about 5 1/2 grams

Is this correct
And if I remember I think kdiver (sorry is misspelled) did an excellent video on gold filled
I will look for it 
Thanks steyr223
Any tips or thoughts would be greatly appreciated


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 20, 2018)

steyr223 said:


> He gave me about 55grams to see what I could do
> What he gave me was 12k and 14k gold filled
> 
> Let's just say 55grams of 12k 1/20th
> ...


No! 1/20 12K gold filled is, at best, [stt]5%[/stt] 2.5% gold. 1/20th of the total weight is 12K gold. 55 grams * 1/20 = 2.75 grams of 12K gold. 12K is _theoretically_ 50% gold. 2.75 grams of 12K gold * 50% = 1.375 grams of gold. But you have to factor in wear on the pieces. All the gold is on the surface. It's the first thing that wears away. Better to figure 1/20 12K gold filled at around [stt]3%[/stt] 1.5% gold recovery as long as it doesn't look excessively worn. I'd look for more like [stt]1.65[/stt] .825 grams. Sorry.

Dave

Edited to correct math error. My initial figures were based on my typical assumptions for 1/10 12K eyeglass frames, not 1/20 12K jewelry.


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## Grelko (Apr 20, 2018)

goldsilverpro said:


> EDITED: I made an error the 1st time. It is now corrected



You got to it before I did. :lol: 


FrugalRefiner said:


> Better to figure 1/20 12K gold filled at around 3% gold recovery as long as it doesn't look excessively worn. I'd look for more like 1.65 grams. Sorry.
> 
> Dave



1.65 grams for every [stt]27[/stt] 55 grams seems decent, depending on the refining options.

3% of 1 pound (453 grams) = 13.59g gold per pound, at brass scrap prices. 

200 pounds = 2,718 grams "If it was all 12k GF"

Edit - fixed


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 20, 2018)

I had trouble figuring out what he was saying. I was using 27 instead of 55. Goran is right, when brand new, 55g of 12K, 1/20, would yield 1.375g. Since it's used, I would figure half, or .688g, if I were responsible for it, and was going to tell the guy what to expect. It will most likely be higher and that will make the guy happier. Plated stuff, marked HGE runs about $1.35/sq.in, *when new*. Unmarked costume jewelry runs about 1/20 of HGE There's really not much in between the 2. Either cyanide or the sulfuric cell for the plated stuff.

It's 1/20, not 1/5.

12K, 1/20 is .5/20 = .025 or 2.5%, Just multiply 55 x .025 = 1.375g

Were I you, I would calculate all the GF possibilities, as percent, and keep a chart. That way, no confusion.


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## Grelko (Apr 20, 2018)

goldsilverpro said:


> Since it's used, I would figure half, or .688g



5.6625g per pound (453g) or 1132.5g for 200 pounds. Still sounds pretty good if you're paying for "scrap brass'.

Also depends on if it's yellow or red brass price. Red costs more, so your profit would be less.


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## steyr223 (Apr 20, 2018)

Thanks everyone I knew my calculations were off thank you for catching the 1/5th just a little different  
If it was all gold filled, I'm sure most is plated ,he gave me pieces that didn't look like gold and had a sneaky suspicion they were gold filled , and yes I found the markings on every piece.
I will take an interest and look at some of the rest in the next day or two.

I will keep everyone posted of my progress
Thanks steyr223
PS we split the cost of brass and the profits


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 20, 2018)

I've edited my previous post to correct math errors.  

Dave


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## Shark (Apr 21, 2018)

The particular style chain's pictured are almost always heavily worn, at least the ones I get are. I have three that came in today and they don't even appear to have any gold at all on them.


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## steyr223 (Apr 27, 2018)

Hi everyone 
I am still trying to get to los Angeles to by nitric ,the only place I can by it
But, I started thinking ,I am going to need like $4,000.00 of chemical .....that's a lot ,plus I don't have a place to store it .

Has anyone ever used A/P on gold filled, I am curious how long it would take.
I have time.

Thanks steyr223 rob


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## Palladium (Apr 27, 2018)

1.5 % and Nitric in a 55 gallon drum is about $3 a gallon and weighs about 600 lbs. 200 lbs of material will take about 100 gallons give or take.


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## Palladium (Apr 27, 2018)

100 gallons of nitric. 75 to 100 gallons of water (First step) and then all the washing for other steps. 
Hcl and nitric for the next two steps in ar. 
Smb, dropping the metals for waste treatment (More water) and Magnesium Hydroxide.
Waste Disposal ! 
And a wholeeeee lot of filtering and work!


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## steyr223 (Apr 27, 2018)

Um yep thanks for the reminder
But I can't buy or store a 55 gal drum
My cost is about 10$/liter so ...

Copper chlorate won't work 
What if I ground everything up to dust or at least small pieces
Is there something in the gold filled that doesn't agree with A/P .
I understand it will take a much longer time ,but I have time .

I was just curios how long ,I did some pins and it took almost 1 week
By the way I plan on only doing 1 to 5 pounds at a time.
Thanks steyr223 rob


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## Grelko (Apr 27, 2018)

steyr223 said:


> U
> What if I ground everything up to dust or at least small pieces
> Is there something in the gold filled that doesn't agree with A/P .
> I understand it will take a much longer time ,but I have time .
> ...



I have a couple pounds of plated and gold filled, that I was going to use A/P with eventually.

It should be about the same as pins, just thicker.

Smaller pieces would dissolve faster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold-filled_jewelry Seems easy enough. A/P doesn't affect silver that much. You still might get a bit of silver chloride though.

Hope you get a bunch of pieces that are gold over sterling :G 

If you get the entire 200 lbs, that's going to be a lot of A/P. If I remember correctly, it's around 1 gallon of HCl for 2-3 pounds of metal (when dissolving pins)


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## steyr223 (Apr 28, 2018)

Thanks grelko

Thanks everyone I will keep you all posted

Steyr223 rob


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## steyr223 (May 15, 2018)

Hello everyone
This is just an update
First off let me make clear I weighed the gold filled jewelry and it was 75 grams not what I said before.
So my yield was 1 gram of gold at 99.5 % pure
With 1/2 gram of silver (as per his xrf which we know doesn't exactly work that way) he is very happy.

I originally thought it was more like 2 to 3% contaminated I kept getting plasticky floaty things in my auric chloride that I couldn't filter out, is that because I skipped the ice process.
Here's my new batch .7lbs ( his guy that separates the stuff wasn't there today so that's just what he could pull out).
But most of it's not gold at all I think it's just brass there's no markings on it whatsoever no Hallmarks some of its gold filled rolled or gold 
rolled plated, I have one that's 18k hge


I have a question .. if I'm not supposed to mix electroplated and gold filled then how come I can do both of them in copper chloride ,is it because you can't do them at the same time,o r maybe when you use nitric.
Thanks steyr223 rob


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## anachronism (May 15, 2018)

The yields from gold plated (over base metal) jewelry are so darned low that you might as well chuck it all into a pile and wait till you have a huge amount over time and send it to someone who surface leaches gold. It really is that low, and costs more in materials and generates loads of waste to the point of not being worth doing by dissolving the base metals.


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## steyr223 (May 15, 2018)

Thanks anachronism
Understood, it looks like I will b handed a mix for the next 200lb, So the way I look at it 3lb of metal at 1 gallon of solution is exactly that and is not dependent on how much gold I get.

I have explained to my partner/friend that if he does have heavy plated items that I would be better off with my sulfuric cell but I don't feel like dissolving all my clothes,truck chairs,all the rags it takes just to clean up and winding up with some kind of melted goo stuck to my truck somewhere wondering why I smell chemical for the next month

Anyways I am going to hit all the stuff missing the clasps or hallmarks with the xrf just to make sure it is gold
Thanks everyone I will update in a week or so
Steyr223 rob

Edited once for my lousy English.


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## steyr223 (May 31, 2018)

I have copper chloride crystals in my auric chloride my question is if gold is the last thing that goes into solution how is there not gold on the bottom with the copper chloride crystals since copper should go into solution first. 
And yes I have tested with Stannis and got a positive for gold in solution.

Being color-blind I dumped all the muck (mud at the bottom of my a/p mixed with gold) into my bleach/HCl solution.
I am almost positive that the muck was copper chloride crystals from the a/p running out of hcl before finishing.....at least when I added more hcl the a/p started working again ( I just didn't add enough)
second question should i cement out my au and put it back in fresh solution or should I drop everything with SMB and put it all back in a/p.
anyways thanks steyr223 rob

What I did
.7lbs of gold filled and 1lb of plated pins/connecters

What I have.
I have 64 ounces(1800 MLS) of very dark green (clear) solution with a layer of whitish/green sediment on the bottom

Should I even bother separating the sediment.
Should I add hot hcl and try to put sediment back in solution or maybe dilute with h2o

PS I almost forgot I put way too much bleach in the auric chloride trying to get the gold to go into solution thanks again
Steyr223


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## steyr223 (May 31, 2018)

Wow where did everyone go


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## FrugalRefiner (May 31, 2018)

Rob, the forum was down for almost two weeks. We just got back up today.

Dave


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## Platdigger (May 31, 2018)

Good to see it is back up and running!


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## steyr223 (Jun 1, 2018)

I know I talked with Kevin kadiver 
I posted a frantic message on one of his videos on YouTube and he got back to me quick
He said wait he understood it was there is a problem with the DNS server and knox couldn't be found anywhere

I was going to separate my sediment from the liquid and try to drop my au with hot h20/hcl and then just wash the hell out of it like Hoke describes
I have been waiting so long for an answer I started reading again lol... Technology really does suck sometimes

Hope everything and everyone is good
Steyr223 rob


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## steyr223 (Jun 1, 2018)

So .....
I separated my sediment from the liquid
As for the sediment:

Hot hcl did nothing
Hot h2o did nothing
Cold hcl did nothing
Cold h20 did nothing
I Decided to put the sediment back into solution so added bleach 
At first the sediment did nothing even though the liquid turned very bright yellow.
After 30 seconds I turned the container over and all the sediment instantly dissolved.
2 mins later and it's getting fluffy to thick white sediment forming.( Silver yes)
I should be able to let settle and pour of the solution and drop the last of my gold
Should I add salt first
After testing I should be able to toss the sediment

The rest of my solution I had to split into 3 64oz
Bottles and dropped with 7 grams of 
smb and 2 times water
Clear to black within 2 minutes

As a side note I used almost 30 ounces of bleach in the total of 64 ounces of solution
I let sit for at the most 4 hours on a 70 degree cloudy day . 
What I'm getting at is it's not how much bleach you put in that needs to come out but the actuall chlorine itself which really isn't a quantity you can measure with out a lab .
Thanks steyr223 rob
PS I still have absolutely no idea what I am talking about so please correct me where I'm wrong for everyone's sake


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## steyr223 (Jun 6, 2018)

Hi I everyone
Hope you are all good in the head today

So I melted a 4.5 gram nugget ,all went well but I still had about 300ml of gold bearing solution with the sediment
I filtered the best I could (sediment was clogging filter ) 
Of course I decanted of the top only to add the sediment to the very last pour.
Since I had already let it sit for a while in the sun I decided to filter and drop (Charmin plug) the first filter was 3 coffee filters (as always I add hcl to what ever filter I have ran auric chloride through until a drop from the filtered solution test negative with stannous )

Not very impressive , no turning black, 10 min later it was already collected at the bottom ...I have had this before

Long story short 6 grams total 


I was absolutely amazed that 4.5 grams came from about 5400mls of solution and 1.5 grams came from 300mls.
Thanks I will continue to keep the updates coming so as everyone can learn something.
Steyr223 rob


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## steyr223 (Jun 19, 2018)

Hello
My new load was 18 lbs of mixed gold filled, gold. Plated and other stuff (not sure what to call it)

If I put a tourch to a piece of jewelry and tin or what we call pop metal( not sure looks like lead but not as heavy) literally drains out of the shell
Is this gold filled.....I mean do they make gold filled with lead or tin

This brings me to another question
How much lead in my a/p is to much ,I know u can convert it to a chlorate and it comes out in the filter
But there has to be a point where it would start causing problems

I have 10 gallons of hcl with a cup of my old a/p added in a 55 gallon container,
I have added 8.5 lbs of jewelry to the solution mostly the good stuff not the tin lead stuff

I have been searching for a while and most of the info is with nitric not a/p
Any info would be appreciated
Thanks steyr223 rob

PS I do know that tin is bad all the way around in any solution except the sulfuric cell


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## Geo (Jun 19, 2018)

I don't know that there's a rule about what the base metal in gold filled can be. I suppose it can be any metal. As far as the lead in you solution, add a little sulfuric acid. If you see a cloud form, let it settle and add a little more. Keep adding small amount until no more white cloud forms. The cloud is lead sulfate.


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## steyr223 (Jun 20, 2018)

Thanks geo
Geo said" As far as the lead in you solution,"

Just to make sure we're on the same page you do me my auric chloride as it would be difficult to see the cloud in a,/ p

Also that would be before I filter or directly after dissolution my gold, that's the same time the ice goes in or does it take its place

Thanks steyr223 rob
PS if anybody could point me in some good "silver and A/P" reading that would be awesome as most of what I read is on silver nitrate from nitric acid, or is it somehow silver nitrate in a/p also.


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## Geo (Jun 20, 2018)

Either solution. If it is a HCl solution, and lead is dissolved in it, sulfuric acid will precipitate it out of solution. And it will not be detrimental to the AP solution.


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## Geo (Jun 20, 2018)

Silver does not dissolve well in AP. It passivates with a crust of silver chloride. The crust is very thin and accounts for a minuscule amount of the overall weight. So silver should be all but uneffected by AP solution.


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