# Urban Mining



## goldsilverpro (Mar 27, 2012)

That's the name of a 511 page book on escrap. It sells for $48 - Amazon for a kindle edition and Lulu for a pdf by download.
http://www.amazon.com/Urban-Mining-Precious-Electronic-ebook/dp/B004AE3NLK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332877237&sr=8-1
http://www.lulu.com/shop/aa-sandy-st/urban-mining-step-by-step-how-to-refine-gold-and-silver-from-e-waste/ebook/product-15985837.html

Here's the first part of the book.
http://www.amazon.com/Urban-Mining-Precious-Electronic-ebook/dp/B004AE3NLK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332877237&sr=8-1#reader_B004AE3NLK

Here's some stuff written on his website, pushing the book. The second link is mostly copied from the Gold Refining Forum - I know I wrote that Ag/nitric article towards the end. I would wonder if his entire 511 page book was plagiarized? To see more of his "articles", click on one of the phrases at the top of one of these pages.
http://www.x24kgold.com/2011/05/how-much-nitric-acid-to-dissolve-1.html
http://www.x24kgold.com/search/label/METAL%20Refining

I think that x24k.com was the one that was selling Steve Spevak's book under a new title, a few years back.

Here's the owner of x24k.com. He's in Gibraltar.
http://whois.domaintools.com/x24k.com

And more about Carmen Media, the owner of x24k.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Media

Has anyone bought this book? I know I shouldn't, but I think I'm going to buy a copy, just for kicks. I'll let you know how it is. Maybe the book wasn't plagiarized - maybe just the ads pushing it. Anyway, I'm curious.

The guy is probably a member since he seems to mainly get his stuff from the forum. Anyone know who he is?


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## Palladium (Mar 27, 2012)

It seems the same person who's name appears as the author on the book also wrote this book. http://www.lulu.com/shop/aa-sandy-st/the-humorous-stories-of-obama/ebook/product-13506152.html

I've found no American copyright laws or registration for this book. I'm thinking it sure would be ashamed for it to get turned loose on the net for free after a paid download. :mrgreen:


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 27, 2012)

Palladium said:


> It seems the same person who's name appears as the author on the book also wrote this book. http://www.lulu.com/shop/aa-sandy-st/the-humorous-stories-of-obama/ebook/product-13506152.html
> 
> I've found no American copyright laws or registration for this book. I'm thinking it sure would be ashamed for it to get turned loose on the net for free after a paid download. :mrgreen:



You think that's what we should do, eh, my old buddy? 

I still don't have it. I bought it but it can only be opened in Adobe Digital Editions (ADE). I downloaded ADE twice and the book 3 times from Lulu. Won't open, at least yet. I wrote an email to Lulu. Hopefully, I'll eventually get it.


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## Palladium (Mar 27, 2012)

[email protected]

:mrgreen:


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## lazersteve (Mar 28, 2012)

The 'book' is obviously made up of excerpts from the forum. The first link GSP posted contains the text from an early thread on making nitric acid. 

The same site X24 also posted copyrighted photos and text of Steve Spevaks ( aka nobelmetalsrecovery) .

Steve


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## Palladium (Mar 28, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> I still don't have it. I bought it but it can only be opened in Adobe Digital Editions (ADE). I downloaded ADE twice and the book 3 times from Lulu. Won't open, at least yet. I wrote an email to Lulu. Hopefully, I'll eventually get it.



See there Chris you have already exposed the scam. The scam is not in the fact that he's selling information from the forum in the form of a book. He just uses the website as eye candy. The scam is in the fact that the book itself never even existed. Somewhere in India right now there are two short guys laughing their ass off. Rotfl


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## eeTHr (Mar 28, 2012)

Not too obvious, huh?

Here are a couple quotes from the two pages linked by GSP, where he says to click on one of the phrases---

">>>>I've worked out the nitric acid math to prove your point *GSP*,..."

"I have read many good posts by *Harold* on obtaining pure gold and decided to take the time and perform all the steps that he has so graciously told us about."


*Cut and paste* from others' writing? That just ain't right....


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 28, 2012)

About 2/3 of the book can be read here, if you want the hassle.
http://books.google.com/books?id=DnFneCUt0RcC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=%22to+improve+the+competence+of+new+employees,+the+enterprise+may+set+up+a+training+programme%22&source=bl&ots=tAK8KD9es5&sig=nZa1fVOLYEK3VMhiz7XeVY6skzQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RHFzT5G0C4662gXI3NHWDg&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22to%20improve%20the%20competence%20of%20new%20employees%2C%20the%20enterprise%20may%20set%20up%20a%20training%20programme%22&f=false


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## butcher (Mar 28, 2012)

From what I understand schools or colleges use a computer program to search a students work to see if it is copied or plagiarized from the intranet, it would be interesting to run this book through that program, I wonder if any forum members have access to a teacher who could do this to see if it is just not a copied and paste of other peoples hard work?

Sure looks like it is.

I wonder if author of Urban mining A.A. Sandy St. may be related to A.A. Sandy Stevans


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## eeTHr (Mar 29, 2012)

On the last link given by GSP, pages 115 to 120 were cut and pasted from the beginning of the Gold Refining Forum Handbook #1.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 29, 2012)

From the book, I picked a sentence at random and then Googled the sentence exactly as it appeared. The sentence was, "to improve the competence of new employees, the enterprise may set up a training programme" Here's the search results. This sentence was most likely taken from one of the other 3 unrelated links that showed up in the search. So far, it seems that everything in the book was copied and pasted.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22to+improve+the+competence+of+new+employees%2C+the+enterprise+may+set+up+a+training+programme%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a


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## jack_burton (Mar 29, 2012)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/102-5493690-1847300?ie=UTF8&nodeId=508088#copyright

Everyone should file a complaint.






Edit: Grammar.


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## rusty (Mar 29, 2012)

jack_burton said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/102-5493690-1847300?ie=UTF8&nodeId=508088#copyright
> 
> Everyone should file a complaint.
> 
> ...



Yes a formal complaint from our forum owner would bring some action to have the book removed from circulation. Knoxx is the rightfull owner of all forum content.


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## arex (Apr 24, 2012)

no need to fuss ... read for free here >>>>>

http://www.google.com/search?q=urban+mining&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1

This guy is good and creative, do not need to be angry because he must work hard to make this technical report.
This knowledge comes from God, so what needs to fuss ...?? :lol: :lol: 
@goldsilverpro >>>@Palladium>>>>@lazersteve


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## jimdoc (Apr 24, 2012)

arex said:


> no need to fuss ... read for free here >>>>>
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=urban+mining&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1
> 
> ...



Is "this guy" you?

Jim


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## Palladium (Apr 24, 2012)

Somebody can check his posting ip for a match.


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## eeTHr (Apr 24, 2012)

arex said:


> This guy is good and creative, do not need to be angry because he must work hard to make this technical report.
> 
> This knowledge comes from God, so what needs to fuss ...?? :lol: :lol:




So it's hard and creative work to copy and paste?

If you understood the material, you could write the thing in your own words.

Since you use the excuse that everything comes from God, then you wouldn't mind if someone came into your house and left with whatever they wanted---Since it all came from God? By your thinking, God created crooks, too, so it's OK to steal!

I don't think that boat is going to float....


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## AztekShine (Apr 25, 2012)

Unbelievable


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## nickvc (Apr 25, 2012)

The saying caught with your hand in the cookie jar comes to mind....
If this guy or any other wants to cherry pick information off the forum,which is all here laid out for free, and condense it and then charge for his work I see no problem, but I feel and suspect royalties are due to the forum and it's owner for any sales as they are owned by forum.
Creative in making money perhaps but by taking others material not rewriting it and then trying to sell it isn't too bright as proving ownership isn't too hard, strike a deal with our leader Noxx and I'm sure all will be forgiven.... The ball is now in your court, or perhaps you will be in a different court!


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## arex (Apr 25, 2012)

eeTHr said:


> arex said:
> 
> 
> > This guy is good and creative, do not need to be angry because he must work hard to make this technical report.
> ...



I'm sure he also bought from others, and he wrote back (wooooowww...This is CREATIVE).... in my mind this is legal, for example....you buy the CAR and then you make change your CAR and you sell ...? nothing is wrong ...! ! 
Yes, all of God ...?God created earth and then GOD ever ask for royalties ....??Humans are greedy :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## arex (Apr 25, 2012)

jimdoc said:


> arex said:
> 
> 
> > no need to fuss ... read for free here >>>>>
> ...



I'm a Newbie in this FORUM.....do not like XXXXXXX capitalists mind...

Edited by Harold


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 25, 2012)

Stealing is stealing. The man stole intellectual property from others and used it to make money. He is a thief.


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## Palladium (Apr 25, 2012)

Did you cross reference his isp for a match from other posting members Chris? I have a feeling he's not new but has been here before. He uses the word capitalist like they use to in the old days of the cold war. :mrgreen: 
If it doesn’t match send me the info on the isp.


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## arex (Apr 25, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> Stealing is stealing. The man stole intellectual property from others and used it to make money. He is a thief.



Slow down.... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Do you know the creator of *www *and *@ code*?? Tim Berners-Lee and Roy Tomlinson ... now we use it on the internet, sooo do you think we steal from him's ...?,no need to punish
We discuss here quietly.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Read this at the end of the book :

Reference Content : 
	Steve, Electronic Scrap Gold Refining, Online Forum New York USA, 2004 – 2005, Formula and Photos 1-128 page.
	Steve, General Reaction List Chemical for Refine Precious Metals, Gold Refining Forum USA, 2005, Formula and Photos 2 page.
	Samuel, Refine Silver from Keybords PC, Online Forum USA, Formula and Photos 1-22 page.
	Anymous,There's Gold in Motherboards Computers,Formula and Photos 18 page.
	Google.com and Youtube.com.
	Wikipedia.com,Aqua regia,Formula and Photos.
	Source article - eHow.com.
	Refining Forum – goldrefiningforum.org.
	Anymous on Internet.
	UNESCO

I think he still respects the source that he used in his book...and I think he just feel created the book "Urban Mining" and do not feel ownership of the original source.


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## arex (Apr 25, 2012)

Palladium said:


> Did you cross reference his isp for a match from other posting members Chris? I have a feeling he's not new but has been here before. He uses the word capitalist like they use to in the old days of the cold war. :mrgreen:
> If it doesn’t match send me the info on the isp.



:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ....COLD War...
Read this : Capitalism is a philosophy of economic systems that is generally considered to favor private ownership of the means of production, creation of goods or services for profit or income by individuals or corporations, competitive markets, voluntary exchange, wage labor, capital accumulation, and personal finance.
""">>>>and SORRY i don't like this mind"""" :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## etack (Apr 25, 2012)

It seems that what was done was illegal the site has a copyright on it.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2

Eric


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## etack (Apr 25, 2012)

what happened to x24k.com its not working today.

Eric


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## Harold_V (Apr 25, 2012)

arex said:


> I'm a Newbie in this FORUM.....do not like XXXXXXX capitalists mind...



One more post like that one and you're going to find yourself on the outside looking in. *Clean up your language *and *post with manners*. I am not willing to tolerate you and your attitude. 

Harold


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## arex (Apr 26, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> arex said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a Newbie in this FORUM.....do not like XXXXXXX capitalists mind...
> ...



OK Sir.....Sorry :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## samuel-a (Apr 26, 2012)

Chris

few weeks beore you posted this, i have done similar thing with another shady eBay seller.
I knew i'll get ripped off, but i had to do it...
I paid 50$ for the CD and shipping, 6 weeks after not receiving the CD, the scammer sent my every thing by e-mail. Guess what i got...
- Hoke book.
- the forum general reaction list.
- a link to my youtube channel.
- a two pages pdf which scard the hell out of me (something along the lines of "put these bords, memory, cpu's and pins in aqua regia, mix well put copper and here you go... gold).

I have reported that to eBay, the item is no longer listed and i got my money back, that's why i never repoted the seller details here.

p.s. have you received my PM?

---------------

arex

I don't think mentioning the sources gives him the right to steal copyrighted property. Hack, he even copyed my spelling mistakes... sigh...
It seems that the thief have removed his amazon, lulu and ebay listing. Good riddance...


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## arex (Apr 27, 2012)

samuel-a said:


> Chris
> 
> arex
> 
> ...



So what next ....? You will make the book "Urban Mining" as he was then you sell the book at amazon.com / lulu.com ....?? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 
Sorry...no offense...This MAN is creative with his ideas ... develop sources of data from many sources and compile them in a book "Urban Mining",makes the cover of a book that I think is so interesting.....do you are (@goldsilverpro,@Palladium,@lazersteve) also think like him ...??????I don't think sooo :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 
I think we should appreciate the hard work that he has made to compile the book, do not just say he a thief... 8) 8)


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## its-all-a-lie (Apr 27, 2012)

arex said:


> This MAN is creative with his ideas ... develop sources of data from many sources and compile them in a book "Urban Mining",makes the cover of a book that I think is so interesting.....


All the hard work was done when the information was written in its original form, whether it be dvd, book, video on youtube, or posted here on this forum. <<This is creative? THIS IS THEFT, NOTHING CREATIVE ABOUT IT! My opinion is this, the guy is too lazy to do his own homework so he cheats and steals to make a buck. The only thing he had to develop was a price, and shipping quote.


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## arex (Apr 27, 2012)

its-all-a-lie said:


> arex said:
> 
> 
> > This MAN is creative with his ideas ... develop sources of data from many sources and compile them in a book "Urban Mining",makes the cover of a book that I think is so interesting.....
> ...



He developed the idea that already exists ... try to understand the meaning of creative,Creativity is defined as the tendency to generate or recognize ideas, alternatives, or possibilities that may be useful in solving problems, communicating with others, and entertaining ourselves and others....and I think what he did was get the definition of this term,...and it's his problem if he intends to sell his creative work :mrgreen: ...His not LAZY or a Thief :mrgreen:


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## etack (Apr 27, 2012)

If we are defining thing use a dictionary not a collage course book 
http://www.csun.edu/~vcpsy00h/creativity/define.htm

This is Websters definition 
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/creativity

What about this definition of Copyright infringement. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

Eric


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## patnor1011 (Apr 27, 2012)

I do not see any creativity in Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V. In fact it is just what it is - theft and stealing of work of another people who at least did job typing every word. If he would study what he found, then repeated processes and wrote about them in his own language or understanding then that may be considered as creativity. 
What he did is just plagiarism in its pure form. He is just trying to make profit selling other people creativity.


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## publius (Apr 27, 2012)

patnor1011 said:


> I do not see any creativity in Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V. In fact it is just what it is - theft and stealing of work of another people who at least did job typing every word. If he would study wha he found, then repeated processes and wrote about them in his own language or understanding that that is what may be considered creativity.
> What he did is just plagiarism in its pure form. He is just trying to make profit selling other people creativity.


+1


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## arex (Apr 27, 2012)

patnor1011 said:


> Repeated processes and wrote about them in his own language or understanding then that may be considered as creativity.



but he has made a difference from the original? same as you said it "Repeated processes and wrote about them in his own language or understanding then that may be considered as creativity". 8) ...Own Language same with His viewpoint...right????


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## arex (Apr 27, 2012)

etack said:


> What about this definition of Copyright infringement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement
> Eric



if the form Object is exactly the same .....maybe I agree the law of copyright, but if it is different .. I would say it is a creative and we do not need to punish :mrgreen:


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## arex (Apr 27, 2012)

publius said:


> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> > I do not see any creativity in Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V. In fact it is just what it is - theft and stealing of work of another people who at least did job typing every word. If he would study wha he found, then repeated processes and wrote about them in his own language or understanding that that is what may be considered creativity.
> ...



-1 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## butcher (Apr 27, 2012)

The young man who is too lazy to work hard, save his money and buy himself a car thinks he is creative by stealing the family’s car that worked and suffered to buy a car.

I think it would be creative to see that young man working in prison.

When you take something from someone without permission it is not creativity, it is stealing.

The person who wrote this book was allowed to come into this home, he was allowed to learn an honest trade, and would have had help from this household, he chose instead to cheat those who welcomed him and steal from them, this made him worse than just a thief.

I think when we find him he should be coated in boiling hot tar and feathered. Then after that he could go to work for a few years in prison and maybe there he could learn how to work, and how to be creative, and learn what honest work is.


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## patnor1011 (Apr 27, 2012)

I think we already found him. I do not believe that any proper or contributing member will be fighting so hard for somebody who just copied large parts of this forum and selling that as his property.


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## butcher (Apr 28, 2012)

I also was thinking the same, I just do not have the tar hot enough yet.


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## MMFJ (Apr 30, 2012)

arex said:


> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> > Repeated processes and wrote about them in his own language or understanding then that may be considered as creativity.
> ...



PLAGIARISM would be me saying (directly copied bits/pieces of your posting)...
but he has made a difference from the original? same as you said it ...Own Language same with His viewpoint...right????

CREATIVE (what I have come to know as "regurgitated writing", which is legal and just fine with me...) would be....
In my opinion, this man presented something different than originally created - something using thought and his own words, intertwined with his personal point of view...right???

Reading those two phrases, one person might understand one better, while another person might relate better to the other phrase. Because they both relate the same idea (as long as both are TRUE), then there is creativity and VALUE in each, which could be sold side by side, with no issue.

However, the point of this discussion is that this 'book' (I will call it that very cautiously) was NOT created using ANY of his own viewpoint, or anything "different" than the original (other than bits taken out of context). Therefore, without question or further comment, this 'work' is created from PLAGIARIZED material and should be stricken from the face of the earth (and/or anywhere else, for that matter!)


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## joem (May 9, 2012)

butcher said:


> From what I understand schools or colleges use a computer program to search a students work to see if it is copied or plagiarized from the intranet, it would be interesting to run this book through that program, I wonder if any forum members have access to a teacher who could do this to see if it is just not a copied and paste of other peoples hard work?
> 
> Sure looks like it is.
> 
> I wonder if author of Urban mining A.A. Sandy St. may be related to A.A. Sandy Stevans



Yes we have this software at my work. If I could get a digital copy ( any type) I could find a way to run through the sofware.

The information in the book also goes back before 2010 ( catfish is quoted a lot)


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## joem (May 9, 2012)

This is what I will send to google books
Everyone should complain here

http://support.google.com/books/bin/answer.py?hl=en-CA&answer=180577&url=http:%2F%2Fbooks.google.ca%2F%3Fhl%3Den


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## joem (May 11, 2012)

Here is Googs response

"Hello,

Thanks for reaching out to us.

We've reviewed your complaint, but it is unclear to us what the specific
copyrighted work or works are that you are asserting have been infringed.
Could you please provide more detail by identifying the work or a
representative list of works? It would be helpful if you could provide us
with a link to the original source of the copyrighted work, as well as
copyright registration numbers if you have them.

Once we understand better what your contentions are, we'll be able to
further investigate the issue and take the appropriate actions.

Regards,

The Google Team"


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## patnor1011 (May 11, 2012)

Google.
If they get their hands on something, they never let it go.


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## Smack (May 11, 2012)

joem said:


> Here is Googs response
> 
> 
> Once we understand better what your contentions are, we'll be able to
> *further* investigate the issue and take the appropriate actions.



They haven't investigated anything. In order to analyze a problem you must first recognize there is a problem.


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 11, 2012)

Smack said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> > Here is Googs response
> ...




Maybe Harold can ban the google bot and then they might recognize a problem. :twisted:


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## Harold_V (May 12, 2012)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Smack said:
> 
> 
> > joem said:
> ...


Heh!
Not a bad idea, but moderator's can't control bots. However, I'm not convinced that Noxx isn't able!

Harold


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## MMFJ (May 12, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> However, I'm not convinced that Noxx isn't able!
> 
> Harold


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robots_exclusion_standard

stops 'em dead.....


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## butcher (May 12, 2012)

The way I read that the robot would have to allow you to control him; it sounds to me like some robots have a will of their own, and would not be controlled by humans, 
Robots and computers are taking over.

Google response to my complaint that the book was copied from copy write materials, it also said something like if I made a complaint I can be held liable for legal fees. Here is the reply; sounds like to me like the Google computer just generated this reply, as a standard for any complaint of that type that is filed:

Google:
Due to the large volume of requests that we experience, please note that we will only be able to provide you with a response if we determine your request may be a valid and actionable legal complaint. For more information on Google's Terms of Service, please visit http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS

We appreciate your patience.


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## necromancer (May 13, 2012)

eeTHr said:


> arex said:
> 
> 
> > This guy is good and creative, do not need to be angry because he must work hard to make this technical report.
> ...





my god says 

"its ok to steal bread if you are hungry or to feed the hungry"
as long as you do not put butter or jam on that bread

there is a possible 6 billion (not including bots) that could have taken that information
if you want to get rid of it forever just get rid of the internet, or those who have no morals

if you do not want this information to be everywhere

get noxx to fix his site to "not accept search bots"
i think the file is called "robots.txt" in the root of the server directory

http://mason.gmu.edu/~montecin/copyright-internet.htm


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## FrugalRefiner (May 13, 2012)

Another thread that has strayed from its original subject.

I don't think a bot is responsible for for compiling the book referenced in the original post. It was a person who came to the sight, copied a bunch of material, put it together in the form of a book, and is now profiting from the work of others without providing proper credit to those who created the original information.

Search bots bring people to this sight by providing links to relevant information found here on the forum. I believe that's why we're here - to help those seeking information on refining. Ban the bots and it will just make it harder for people to find this incredible resource.  

Dave


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## Palladium (May 13, 2012)

Bots, a necessary evil.


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## its-all-a-lie (May 13, 2012)

I believe the whole point of banning the bot was because Google isn't agreeing that the material was in fact from a thread on this site, and is in a way copyrighted by NOXX. Am i correct in this?


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## MMFJ (May 13, 2012)

its-all-a-lie said:


> I believe the whole point of banning the bot was because Google isn't agreeing that the material was in fact from a thread on this site, and is in a way copyrighted by NOXX. Am i correct in this?


That's what my post was about, though other posts have been right on as well with several facts;
- to continue broadening the user base, the forum (and any website) needs to have the 'robots.txt' file allow all the bots to just roam around (they are the special machines that 'read' all the posts and churn through, indexing them so that when someone goes to search, it can 'remember' where it saw it and show relative info. 
- As someone said (or something like this), bots are a way of life we can't afford to avoid...
- the problem with this thread was really with the guy copying material and not making it his own (i.e., illegal activity) 
a. - by taking 'snipits' (word for word posts) from the board and placing them in a book (without the original owner's permission or knowledge - in and of itself, that is not wrong, but then to not give proper credit where due, becomes copyright infringement) 
b. - offer this book for sale on the internet as his own work (though he did give a 'sort of' credit at the end, it clearly was not "proper credit where due")

By the way, if someone could get him to actually mail a physical copy of it across state lines, that would be "mail fraud" as well, which is 10 years without parole....


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## butcher (May 13, 2012)

"mail fraud" as well, which is 10 years without parole....

We get to pour hot tar and feathers on him first right?


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## necromancer (May 16, 2012)

seems the link to the book is just a front page 

http://www.google.com/search?q=urban+mining&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1

did anyone get a copy of it? maybe it should be put up for all members for free ??

maybe this site can be switched so users must be logged in to see content
even if outside search is used

(just a thought)


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## necromancer (May 17, 2012)

http://tools.seobook.com/robots-txt/generator/

here is a "robots.txt" genertor

make robots.txt
place it in your root folder for your documents on the server

bots only index what you want

you can also make the site so you need to login to view anything on this server, that way if you "google" you will not see the results exposed to all unless you are first a member.

and also remember that there is 1,000's apon 1,000's of bots
you need to """block all bots"""


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## lazersteve (May 17, 2012)

The moderators and Noxx have discussed the use of the robots.txt file privately several times over the past five years. Noxx has determined he would rather have the search engine exposure in leiu of the privacy of the posts.

The bulk of the beginning section of the book in question was written by myself (as seen in the excerpt posted above) and a several other original members of the forum. It's a crying shame that we will not be rewarded as well as a thief is for our own work. If the thief was half a man he would send everyone who contributed the *actual written content *(as opposed to the copied and pasted content) a royalties check for their contribution to 'his sucess'.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve


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## Harold_V (May 19, 2012)

lazersteve said:


> If the thief was half a man he would send everyone who contributed the *actual written content *(as opposed to the copied and pasted content) a royalties check for their contribution to 'his sucess'.


Yep, and if a bullfrog had wheels, it wouldn't bump its butt on the ground. 

You're dealing with a crook, Steve. Why on earth would you expect him to play fair? That's a totally unreasonable expectation from sleaze like this guy. 

Harold


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## nickvc (May 19, 2012)

I'm sure the gentleman involved will be moving on to other things such as ground unicorn horn and hens teeth anytime soon.. :roll: :lol:


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## nickvc (May 19, 2012)

:idea: A better thought for him, how about a detailed booklet on how to recover virgin gold and nano gold from your garden soil with directions to a site that sells the secret fluxes for a nominal sum say....$100 a pound, what a bargain when you think how much gold you will be able to recover :roll:


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## Oz (May 19, 2012)

nickvc said:


> :idea: A better thought for him, how about a detailed booklet on how to recover virgin gold and nano gold from your garden soil with directions to a site that sells the secret fluxes for a nominal sum say....$100 a pound, what a bargain when you think how much gold you will be able to recover :roll:


Sad thing is he/she probably just read what you wrote and may try it.


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## nickvc (May 19, 2012)

Oz said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> > :idea: A better thought for him, how about a detailed booklet on how to recover virgin gold and nano gold from your garden soil with directions to a site that sells the secret fluxes for a nominal sum say....$100 a pound, what a bargain when you think how much gold you will be able to recover :roll:
> ...




We can live in hope...at least we could get them banged up for fraud 8)


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## necromancer (May 19, 2012)

lazersteve said:


> The moderators and Noxx have discussed the use of the robots.txt file privately several times over the past five years. Noxx has determined he would rather have the search engine exposure in leiu of the privacy of the posts.
> 
> The bulk of the beginning section of the book in question was written by myself (as seen in the excerpt posted above) and a several other original members of the forum. It's a crying shame that we will not be rewarded as well as a thief is for our own work. If the thief was half a man he would send everyone who contributed the *actual written content *(as opposed to the copied and pasted content) a royalties check for their contribution to 'his sucess'.
> 
> ...




as always, your 2 cents is well accepted, but if it was me i would not stop at the end of the earth to put the offender on the gallows pole.

i did see the book (start to finish) thats alot of others work to be burrned for !!


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## lazersteve (May 19, 2012)

After reflecting on this thread it's very easy to agree with Goldsilverpro on the need to keep your most intimate processes secret. I'm 100% convinced that anything you post on the internet will be plagerized at one point or another. It's a sad world we live in isn't it. If these guys worked half as hard at producing their own work, we may have more valid processes to use as well as more accurate information at our fingertips. They are actually doing a diservice to the field by cutting and pasting fragments of various informtaion. This fragmentation only confuses the novice readers more.

I'm done with my rant, sorry you guys had to hear it, but I needed to vent.

Steve


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## joem (May 21, 2012)

lazersteve said:


> After reflecting on this thread it's very easy to agree with Goldsilverpro on the need to keep your most intimate processes secret. I'm 100% convinced that anything you post on the internet will be plagerized at one point or another. It's a sad world we live in isn't it. If these guys worked half as hard at producing their own work, we may have more valid processes to use as well as more accurate information at our fingertips. They are actually doing a diservice to the field by cutting and pasting fragments of various informtaion. This fragmentation only confuses the novice readers more.
> 
> I'm done with my rant, sorry you guys had to hear it, but I needed to vent.
> 
> Steve



If this person re-wrote his/her experiences in his own way but learned it here would that be a better way? Take A/p for example, many people are selling this info via ebay and the info is readily on the internet not just here is it now sort of public domain since I'm not sure where the original a/p method came from. a 1:30 am ramble


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## lazersteve (May 21, 2012)

If you ever want to check the source of a process, search and sort by oldest results first. You'll find the oldest result is most likely the origin, or nearest to it, of the information.

There are so many copy cats out there it's sickening. I don't have a problem with people using the information, or improving on it, but so many try to take ownership of it as 'theirs', rewriting the true history of the process and simultaneously becoming the new 'authority' on the subject to maximize their profits. The ones that suffer from this are the noobs who know no better and start following these 'false prophets'.

In the scientific community it is considered dishonorable to copy/claim anothers work without written permission and proper references.

Try asking one of the sellers of these tutorials where they originally acquired the information and see what kind of answers you get. Everyone is out to make an easy buck on someone else's hard work these days... disgusting.

Steve


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## joem (May 21, 2012)

Yes I agree with you, but where does the A/P process come from?
Hoke's book or did it evolve from the computer age?


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## lazersteve (May 21, 2012)

Check out this previous forum discussion:

AP History

Steve


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## joem (May 21, 2012)

lazersteve said:


> Check out this previous forum discussion:
> 
> AP History
> 
> Steve


Topic relates to this question ( first 3rd) then goes off the wall then onto zinc
it's ok it happens. Given the time frame of that thread are you the person to be given credit for the a/p process? Seems like it.


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## Geo (May 22, 2012)

the first process that describes the AP process i could find was a patent for its use filed 05/07/1986. that doesnt mean it wasnt used before that, but i doubt it was used in the same capacity as we know it now. in the patent, it was being used to recover gold from anode slimes but it was still the same process.


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## Oz (May 22, 2012)

Geo said:


> the first process that describes the AP process i could find was a patent for its use filed 05/07/1986. that doesnt mean it wasnt used before that, but i doubt it was used in the same capacity as we know it now. in the patent, it was being used to recover gold from anode slimes but it was still the same process.


That is different. 
By all means post the patent number, Geo the process sleuth.


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## Geo (May 22, 2012)

here you go, http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4670052.html


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## lazersteve (May 22, 2012)

I feel I pioneered the use of AP for the purpose of gold recovery from escrap. The cited patent concerns refining gold from slimes. To the best of my knowledge, I was the first to demonstrate the use of a strainer setup in the recovery of gold foils.

There are many other papers and patents utilizing HCl and hydrogen peroxide to dissolve various precious metals.

Steve


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## Geo (May 22, 2012)

i agree Steve, you are definitely the man when it comes to AP the way we use it here. if it wasnt for you, there would be a large gap in the processes we have all grown to love. i found the forum by visiting your website and watching your videos. i still have the original bookmark i made almost two years ago.almost everything i know about recovery and refining, i owe to you and will always be grateful.

thank you.


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## lazersteve (May 22, 2012)

Imagine if I had earned a 1/2% royalty from everyone that ever used the AP process to recover gold foils from escrap since the day that I demonstrated it years ago. :shock: 

Steve


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## Auggie (May 22, 2012)

Can I chime in here? I have something to say...why is there such a fuss? Someone took advantage of the internet!!! Call the news!!! We must warn everyone of this scourge!

It has been acknowledged that google indexes this site...that cannot be resolved unless the mod decides to act. On the other hand this has brought in a lot of newcomers and has helped to spread the knowledge of gold refining to those who wanted it = WIN.

People who post writings here know that their writings will be publicly and freely available to anyone with an internet connection...you don't need to be a member and log in to read messages because google indexes the entire forum and will show you the articles without access whereas if you try to come through the front door without a username/pw you will be thwarted. So despite the registration people are still able to read the articles = WIN.

So you are posting your information freely, and google is indexing it freely, and people who search on gold refining terms will find those messages and freely read them = WIN.

But some guy puts a bunch of the info in a book-like document and sells it. I'm sure some of the people who bought it are probably glad they did because maybe their google skills aren't very good, so they got the information they needed to get them some gold = WIN.

Taking someone else's completed work and publishing it as one's own = BAD.
Taking someone else's work and incorporating it into your own work without changing the words = SLIMY.
Taking other people's work and adding your own work and turning it into a new work = THE WRITING PROCESS.

So I see the guy who put this book together as somewhere between 1 & 2. At least he gave credit at the end as arex pointed out, right?

The moral of the story: If you don't want your information freely out there, don't write it in the GRF.


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## goldsilverpro (May 22, 2012)

Well put, Auggie. I agree. Even though I started this thread, what the guy did didn't upset me nearly as much as it did some of you, even though I recognized some of my writings, word for word. I was just pointing out that he did it and that he was pond slime for doing it.


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## lazersteve (May 22, 2012)

Auggie,

You hit the nail(s) right on the head.

I've got plenty of new processes, but I'm tired of working my butt off so some other guy can profit from my hard work. I may feel differently if my family did not depend on the fruits of my hard work for the necessities of life. 

The internet is a terrible place.. boo hoo. The only thing any of us can do about it is to support those that rightfully deserve it; those that put in the hard work to make this forum the great place it is. There will always be pond slime and it has always been such.

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (May 22, 2012)

All in all, it's not a bad book, especially for beginners. I see few (or, no) glaring errors. He actually organized a lot of the forum stuff better than any of us have done it. To do that, he would have to have some knowledge. I also noticed that, in some of his photos, the labels of the chemicals on the acid jugs were in French. This would indicate to me that he performed at least some of the work himself.

I don't really like the digital format he used to publish the book. The way he did it, though, using Adobe Digital Editions, made it very difficult for the buyer to copy and distribute. 
http://www.adobe.com/products/digitaleditions/pdfs/adobe_ebook_platform_whitepaper.pdf


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## samuel-a (May 22, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> The way he did it, though, using Adobe Digital Editions, made it very difficult for the buyer to copy and distribute.



That resemble to a bank robber buying a safe to protect the money he stole... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 
Sure he did all the heavy lifting, but he never really earned this money... :idea:



*Afterthought- Perhaps we should offer the file for free download here on the forum, anyone has the .pdf ?


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## Harold_V (May 23, 2012)

lazersteve said:


> Imagine if I had earned a 1/2% royalty from everyone that ever used the AP process to recover gold foils from escrap since the day that I demonstrated it years ago. :shock:
> 
> Steve


Not to diminish in any way, your contributions to the process, but I feel I could say pretty much the same thing about the process of cleaning precipitated gold. 

When I started on this forum, I never saw gold from any of the early members that could be considered (at least by my measure) as acceptable. I had an objective of high quality, so, to that end, I had worked hard on improving the end product. I had developed a washing procedure that I felt had merit, and while it was similar to that taught by Hoke, it was distinctly different. 

I also championed the idea of a second refining (hardly something new, but not commonly practiced by the vast majority of members at that time), as well as eliminating base metals, to limit drag-down of unwanted substances. All too many simply dissolved everything with AR, then precipitated and melted. Shocking, but true. 

I promoted these processes in the hopes that others would benefit. I, at no time, had any expectations of profiting from what I posted. Had I expected to do so, it would have never been offered freely, as it has been. 

In life, we reap rewards in many ways. I enjoy trying to help others. Some are grateful, while others resent the intrusion. Some even grab the freely offered information and pretend it belongs to them. That's not at all uncommon. My washing procedure, for example, has been promoted by others on a regular basis, often with no mention that it may have come from me. That's the price we pay for sharing. Some folks are highly principled, while others don't have a grasp of the concept. 

When I'm gone from this world, I can hope that others that may have benefitted from me will remember me in that light---that I tried to help, and expected nothing in return.

Harold


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## joem (May 23, 2012)

samuel-a said:


> goldsilverpro said:
> 
> 
> > The way he did it, though, using Adobe Digital Editions, made it very difficult for the buyer to copy and distribute.
> ...



I know where to locate this file.
It's on GRF lol


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## lazersteve (May 23, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> lazersteve said:
> 
> 
> > Imagine if I had earned a 1/2% royalty from everyone that ever used the AP process to recover gold foils from escrap since the day that I demonstrated it years ago. :shock:
> ...



I agree 100%. I was simply using myself as an example and in no way meant to diminish the contributions of any other member(s). Goldsilverpro also deserves full credit for his work on the gold value by surface area calculations that he has promoted here. There are more examples of well deserving contributions.

Steve


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## butcher (May 23, 2012)

Most of us here will gladly give the shirt's off our back to help other's in need, without expecting anything in return, but I get mad as the Dickens when someone would steal our shirt's and sell it, for profit, after being allowed to get this information freely as a member.I for one appreciate what others share here, anytime I take notes of information I will write the authors name down in my notes, this not only reminds me who provided the information and giving them credit, but later (as my memory is very bad) I can determine how valid the information is, because of the integrity of the information a Known author has always given.


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## Harold_V (May 24, 2012)

lazersteve said:


> I agree 100%. I was simply using myself as an example and in no way meant to diminish the contributions of any other member(s). Goldsilverpro also deserves full credit for his work on the gold value by surface area calculations that he has promoted here. There are more examples of well deserving contributions.
> 
> Steve


I hope you understand I didn't take your comments the wrong way, Steve. More or less just trying to have you understand that we live amongst people who have low moral values and will stop at nothing in bettering their cause. That's probably one of the reasons why I offer everything without strings (aside from demanding respect). If you don't expect kindness from others, you're never disappointed. 

One of the things I've found to be true in life is that most folks aren't willing to give the other guy anything free, aside from a bad time. 

Harold


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## Geo (May 24, 2012)

Harold, thats a very cynical way of looking at things. :shock: :lol: 

i totally agree. as a matter of fact, i always say "expect the worse and your never disappointed".


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## publius (May 24, 2012)

Seems that a copy of this "publication" can not be had on the net...


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## necromancer (May 24, 2012)

i still say that if anyone has this (bootleg book) it should be given away (free) to members or sold by the admin / mods and whoever has claim to the content should have a piece of the pie


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## joem (May 25, 2012)

> If this person re-wrote his/her experiences in his own way but learned it here would that be a better way? Take A/p for example, many people are selling this info via ebay and the info is readily on the internet not just here is it now sort of public domain since I'm not sure where the original a/p method came from. a 1:30 am ramble



Steve: PM Sent ( watch out my brain gears are turning)


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## Palladium (May 25, 2012)

publius said:


> Seems that a copy of this "publication" can not be had on the net...



Not yet anyway. :mrgreen:


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## joem (Jun 1, 2012)

The time is coming near when he who can be trusted teams up with he who has the skills brings you the official answer. LOL


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## joem (Jul 1, 2012)

I guess our collaboration is the official respond to this blatant plagiaristic act. Any copies of this guide show up as a digital download and we have a strong legal defense.


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## necromancer (Jul 2, 2012)

i am searching every illegal download site on the internet, i have found nothing


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## Palladium (Jul 2, 2012)

It's not out there. As far as i know only two copies exist.


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## BAMGOLD (Jul 2, 2012)

If someone bought the book, I can make it into a readable PDF or whatever, no matter what the original format..


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## necromancer (Jul 2, 2012)

BAMGOLD said:


> If someone bought the book, I can make it into a readable PDF or whatever, no matter what the original format..




i dont think that this forum group wants electronic copies floating around, makes it easy to bootleg

some members were already upset to the fact that there hard work was taken and sold without permission


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## lazersteve (Jul 2, 2012)

You can still buy the book from Smashwords.com, but the google link is now dead as well as the original x24gold.com site. 

It seems someone turned and ran when the heat was put on.

Steve


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## Palladium (Jul 2, 2012)

necromancer said:


> BAMGOLD said:
> 
> 
> > If someone bought the book, I can make it into a readable PDF or whatever, no matter what the original format..
> ...



That's the whole reason i haven't done it!


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## joem (Jul 3, 2012)

BAMGOLD said:


> If someone bought the book, I can make it into a readable PDF or whatever, no matter what the original format..



Are you talking about our guide?


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## necromancer (Jul 3, 2012)

joem said:


> BAMGOLD said:
> 
> 
> > If someone bought the book, I can make it into a readable PDF or whatever, no matter what the original format..
> ...




he is talking about the bootleg "Urban Mining" ebook with the forum photos and text

not your publication joem


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## joem (Jul 3, 2012)

necromancer said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> > BAMGOLD said:
> ...


 Phew I was worried there for a minute


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## BAMGOLD (Jul 3, 2012)

haha, yeah not your book, the one we are all pissed about.


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## chanjav08 (Jul 3, 2012)

joem said:


> BAMGOLD said:
> 
> 
> > If someone bought the book, I can make it into a readable PDF or whatever, no matter what the original format..
> ...


are you referring to the one i have to pay for?
or the one aflac put on for free?


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## BAMGOLD (Jul 3, 2012)

? I'm talking about anything anyone wants to post on this forum in a form no one else can read, I will make it readable for them, nothing more than that, sorry.


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## chanjav08 (Jul 3, 2012)

Bamgold
Not intended for you but for Master joem. sorry for cnfusion


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## BAMGOLD (Jul 3, 2012)

ok, but he was asking me that question... so yeah, I'm really confused.


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## Palladium (Jul 3, 2012)

The one this thread is referring to and is being talked about is Urban Mining which was a bunch of stolen work from the forum. It won't be seeing daylight! The one Joem is talking about is the one him and lazer Steve wrote. Which is for sale. The one aflac has posted is Hoke and The gold refining forum handbook #1 and #2.


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## jimdoc (Jul 3, 2012)

Palladium said:


> The one this thread is referring to and is being talked about is Urban Mining which was a bunch of stolen work from the forum. It won't be seeing daylight! The one Joem is talking about is the one him and lazer Steve wrote. Which is for sale. The one aflac has posted is Hoke and The gold refining forum handbook #1 and #2.




That Aflac is one awesome guy! Why doesn't he post more here, busy guy I suppose.

Jim


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 3, 2012)

jimdoc said:


> That Aflac is one awesome guy! Why doesn't he post more here, busy guy I suppose.
> 
> Jim



Cats require a great deal of attention! 8)


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## Shor (Jul 3, 2012)

FrugalRefiner said:


> jimdoc said:
> 
> 
> > That Aflac is one awesome guy! Why doesn't he post more here, busy guy I suppose.
> ...



Don't they though! :mrgreen:


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## butcher (Jul 8, 2012)

They are sneaky too.


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