# I Need The Best Bargain For Sulfuric Acid



## Anonymous (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm in the process of purchasing some Sulfuric Acid, but I'd like to know if anyone knows where I could get some for a reasonable price. I'm in Nashville, TN USA. There is an eBay auction/ad selling 2 gallons for $99+ $45 for shipping. Is that a good deal?


Kevin


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## philddreamer (Nov 2, 2012)

NOOOOO!!! :mrgreen: 

Try Ace Hardware or some other hardware store. Liquid Fire works best for me; Rooto makes a lot of suds.

Take care!
Phil


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## Anonymous (Nov 2, 2012)

philddreamer said:


> NOOOOO!!! :mrgreen:
> 
> Try Ace Hardware or some other hardware store. Liquid Fire works best for me; Rooto makes a lot of suds.
> 
> ...


Are you saying to buy *Liquid Fire* and _NOT_ *Rooto*? What about *Liquid Lightning* I've read that it works good too, except that it's already a dark liquid, which means I wouldn't be able to tell when I've exhausted the acid. I'm needing the Sulfuric for my cell to strip gold pins.


Kevin


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## grance (Nov 2, 2012)

www.dudadiesel.com 4.25 gallons for $100 bucks but the shiping would be another $50 at least. Thats just where i get my SMB and Patassiun nitrate.


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## acpeacemaker (Nov 2, 2012)

Ace hardware here sells 2 1/2 gals of Rooto for $38.00. Also comes in handy when making poorman's nitric as well. The other brands are about the same price.


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## gold4mike (Nov 2, 2012)

5 gallons for $29.00 at my local auto parts warehouse. Battery electrolyte.

If you need it concentrated evaporate it down to approximately 1/3 of its original volume. I use a thermometer and stop heating when the temperature starts to rise significantly over 100 degrees Celsius. At that point nearly all of the water is out of it.


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## philddreamer (Nov 2, 2012)

> Are you saying to buy Liquid Fire and NOT Rooto?


Preferably Liquid Fire, Rooto IF Liquid Fire is not available to you. My expirience is that LF is "cleaner" when running the cell, while Rooto creates too much foam. You MUST be careful when any foam is present, because if you disconnect any electrode, and you have a spark, bang! :shock: I know :roll: ; I never had the foam problem with LF.
One thing, though, I started checking the prices of sulphuric last night, and WOW, they have gone up since I last bought some 3 months ago! I have to visit my Ace hardware store and see how much they are selling it for.
The Liquid Lighting contains buffers, so you need to check the MSDS.
There's a post on the the difference between LF and Rooto; I think it was Geo who commented on the Rooto's foaming. 

Take care!
Phil


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## Anonymous (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the info guys, but one thing though, is the Rooto and battery electrolyte a dark liquid? I'm wanting a clear/light liquid so I can tell how my progress is going.

I'll check on the Liquid Lightning today. 

Kevin


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## philddreamer (Nov 2, 2012)

Kevin, from my expirience, the starting "liquid can be as clear as glass, but as soon as you start de-plating, is going to turn black because of the gold. De-plated gold is a black fine powder, so it doesn't matter if the the liquid is clear or dark. You just make sure your item has de-plated by the change of the items color; then when your acid is saturated, the gold starts to plate on the cathode, slowing down any de-plating. Then its time to "change" the acid.
Check Lazersteve's video and others that are posted on the forum.

Phil


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## gold4mike (Nov 2, 2012)

The battery electrolyte is clear. I have had it turn a bit yellow when concentrating it but that has never seemed to have affected my processes in a negative way.


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## acpeacemaker (Nov 2, 2012)

They're clear, but remember with the battery you'll have to evaporate it down.


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## Anonymous (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks, I got it now. I just wanted to make sure to do it correct the first time.

Kevin


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## mjgraham (Nov 2, 2012)

While I have not ran a cell or made nitirc with it yet , I got the Liquid Fire brand, was a red liquid, followed a youTube video that basically used one drop of 30% H2O2 per 10ml of drian cleaner, put it on the hotplate for a while on high and it cleared up , smoked a lot to and I am sure the fumes are bad. Made it look cleaner anyway, if it made it better I don't know.


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 2, 2012)

gold4mike said:


> 5 gallons for $29.00 at my local auto parts warehouse. Battery electrolyte.
> 
> If you need it concentrated evaporate it down to approximately 1/3 of its original volume. I use a thermometer and stop heating when the temperature starts to rise significantly over 100 degrees Celsius. At that point nearly all of the water is out of it.



According to the internet, Napa battery acid is about 34.6% with a specific gravity of 1.26. If you evaporated this to 1/3 (33.3%) of the original volume (e.g., 1000ml evaporated to 333ml), you would have about 77% sulfuric. For use in the sulfuric cell, I would want it at least 90%. To do that, you would evaporate to 26.7% of the original volume. Starting with 1000ml, you would evaporate to 267ml.

The boiling point of 77% H2SO4 is about 190C (374F) and that of 90% is about 260C (500F). I can't see how observing a rise above 100C (212F) as being any more than an iffy guide. What does significant mean to you, anyhow?


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## maynman1751 (Nov 2, 2012)

> If your doing this for the concentrated sulfuric acid gold stripping cell, boiling down 32% H2SO4 battery acid about half way down would not give you the concentration of acid you need to run the cell properly, you would still have about 30% water, which would attack base metals in the cell, the battery acid will work better if boiled down until you see white fumes of SO2 gas evolving, but this can be extremely dangerous.
> 
> Boiling concentrated sulfuric acid is terribly dangerous, and if you splashed or spilled this acid on you or a boiling vessel broke which they often do, and this acid ran down into your boot or shoe it could cripple you as the acid ate your flesh to the bone, before doing this be sure you understand the dangers, and take all of the safety precautions, buying the cheap store bought drain cleaners, are a much safer way to get the acid, without the dangers of devastating acid burns when something went wrong, or Murphy’s law decided to poke its ugly head out.
> 
> Although recycling the acid you will have to re-concentrate it, if doing this be sure you research the dangers and wear the proper protective gear.



This is a quote from Butcher on another thread that I thought was relevant to this thread.


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## Marcel (Nov 2, 2012)

If you need it really dirty cheap ask your local auto scrap yard. They do empty car batteries, to them it is just expensive waste, they have to pay for. You can test the acid with a cheap test device, filter it and then it should be good enough. I guess you can get a 100l for a sixpack of beer. :lol:


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## Anonymous (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks again for all the info. This is very interesting and enlightening. I'm going to take all the advise given and I'm going to talk to a local battery supply store here that's not far from me and they recycle car batteries, and they sell them too. I should get some good results from them.


Kevin


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 2, 2012)

testerman said:


> Thanks again for all the info. This is very interesting and enlightening. I'm going to take all the advise given and I'm going to talk to a local battery supply store here that's not far from me and they recycle car batteries, and they sell them too. I should get some good results from them.
> 
> 
> Kevin



The sulfuric from batteries is much too weak to be used in a sulfuric stripping cell. To be of use, the sulfuric should be at least 90% and, therefore, most of the water would have to be eliminated by evaporation on a hotplate. As the water evaporates off, the sulfuric gets stronger and the boiling point (B.P.) gets higher. As I mentioned before, the B.P. of 90% sulfuric is about 500F. Therefore, the sulfuric will get hotter and hotter as the water evaporates and the only limiting factor is the boiling point at whatever strength it happens to be at that particular time. 

There are huge safety problems in doing this. They can be moderated somewhat by accurately measuring the temperature continuously and keeping it at some lower point. *Firstly*, the hotter the solution, the easier it is to break beakers. To evaporate safely, you definitely need a container under the beaker to catch the acid in case the beaker breaks. The most reliable catch container is a 5 liter Corning Ware Pyroceram dish, which costs $50-$60 new. *Secondly*, hot sulfuric is one of the most dangerous things on the planet. It will cause severe burns instantly. *Thirdly*, the more concentrated and hotter it gets, the more it will tend to splatter. *Fourthly*, if you over-evaporate the water and the sulfuric gets over-concentrated, you can get copious (a lot of!) white fumes of toxic SO3 gas.
http://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=503&q=sulfuric+acid+burns&oq=sulfuric+acid+burns&gs_l=img.3..0j0i24l3.1719.10828.0.11750.19.13.0.6.6.0.344.3609.2-10j3.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.PQHNcHwo6mE

I know that some people on the forum evaporate battery acid to make the sulfuric stripper. This has always seemed very stupid to me. Why put yourself in harm's way when you can buy readily available concentrated sulfuric acid, in the form of commercial drain cleaner, inexpensively? Concentrated sulfuric, at room temperature, is dangerous enough. Why magnify this danger, maybe 100 fold, by heating it up hundreds of degrees? Stupid!


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## philddreamer (Nov 2, 2012)

I posted once a very graphic pic of a sulphuric acid burn. I deleted it because statements of been too gruesome. But later someone else posted the same pic. Maybe its time to be brought up so new members realize the true danger of mishandling sulphuric acid.

Take care and be safe!
Phil


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## maynman1751 (Nov 2, 2012)

Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't used battery acid be full of lead?


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## Geo (Nov 2, 2012)

maynman1751 said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't used battery acid be full of lead?



when you evaporate the water from the electrolyte, the lead will precipitate as lead sulfite. its more dangerous than people let on. it has to be brought to a temperature that causes sulfuric acid vapors to be evolved. if you breathe these vapors, they will react with the moisture in your lungs and make sulfuric acid in your lungs. we all should know what sulfuric acid does to living tissue.


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 2, 2012)

I may be wrong, but I don't think that lead dissolves in the electrolyte, no matter what strength it is. 
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/leadacid.html


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## Geo (Nov 2, 2012)

ive emptied my fair share of auto batteries.all seemed to have a grey colored precipitate in the bottom of the cell. since im assuming the cathode and anode are made of lead, i cant imagine what else it could be.


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## qst42know (Nov 2, 2012)

Some compounds for producing battery plates are listed here. There may be more.

http://www.indiamart.com/ak-auto-agency/special-chemicals.html


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 2, 2012)

Geo said:


> ive emptied my fair share of auto batteries.all seemed to have a grey colored precipitate in the bottom of the cell. since im assuming the cathode and anode are made of lead, i cant imagine what else it could be.


It would likely be lead, lead sulfate, and/or lead oxide that has flaked off of the electrodes. The lead never stays in the solution as an ion.


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## GotTheBug (Nov 2, 2012)

Also another product called Hot Power, drain cleaner over 90%.

Just a .02


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## Anonymous (Nov 4, 2012)

GotTheBug said:


> Also another product called Hot Power, drain cleaner over 90%.
> 
> Just a .02


Would the Hot Power need to be evaporated down to concentrate it more, or the 90% strength is the Sulfuric Acid?

Besides the cost of the drain cleaners, what other reason why I would want to use them instead of the sulfuric acid?

Thanks for the info too. Sears seem to have the best price though. From the websites I looked at, they only sell it by the case (12 1qt bottles). One place wanted $101.88 + shipping and Sears sell the same for only $60.00.

On another note: I know that the sulfuric cell will turn black anyway once I start the de-plating , but the reason I want a clear acid to start with is so that I can see it change colors, instead of just watching the foaming action. And I want to film/document my progress and once I get better skilled at it, I may decide to go with a dark acid and save money at the same time.

I've been so busy and I'm now up to approximately 5 lbs of clean pins, ready to be deplated. I know I could use Nitric (I have some), but I rather strip the gold off of them and give the scrap metals to the person that brings me computers and keyboards all the time.

And my special thanks to all of you that have given me some great advise here on this forum. 

Kevin


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## Anonymous (Nov 5, 2012)

One final question on this for me (I hope so)..... but, is $24.99 + $10.76 shipping worth it for (2) 950 ml (2 qts) of the Sulfuric Acid?

Thanks again for all the info.

Kevin


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## acpeacemaker (Nov 5, 2012)

Where I am, 1 qt at the hardware store is right between $9-$10 each for 98%. Of course the larger the bottle gets, the cheaper it can get. I've noticed some Wal-Mart's have even started carrying it. Keep an eye out for the bottles in an enclosed bag.


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## Anonymous (Nov 5, 2012)

acpeacemaker said:


> Where I am, 1 qt at the hardware store is right between $9-$10 each for 98%. Of course the larger the bottle gets, the cheaper it can get. I've noticed some Wal-Mart's have even started carrying it. Keep an eye out for the bottles in an enclosed bag.


Are you talking about straight Sulfuric Acid? at WalMart

I know, I asked another question  

Kevin


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## acpeacemaker (Nov 5, 2012)

Lol, yeah. Not every Wally World though. If I remember right the ones I saw were smaller than a quart and ran $5-$6 range. They have a black label and are bagged.

Andrew


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## Anonymous (Nov 5, 2012)

I have a one just 5 minutes from me and another about 15 minutes from me. I did a search on Walmarts website for sulfuric acid, but all I get is drain cleaner. I'll keep searching though. Good to know. Worse come to worst, I'll just order the sulfuric acid online (2 qts) and pay the $34 total. I'd hate to do it, but I wouldn't want to be looking for sulfuric acid for a longer time than needed. 


Kevin


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## acpeacemaker (Nov 5, 2012)

http://mobile.walmart.com/m/phoenix...Buffered-Sulfuric-Acid-Drain-Cleaner/17133944

This is sulfuric, but I'm not sure how well it does. Drain cleaners can be sulfuric. Some are sodium hydroxide, and some are crap you don't want. Most of the time it will be under a brand name as a drain cleaner, not just labeled as sulfuric.

Andrew


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## mjgraham (Nov 5, 2012)

I have noticed if the cleaner is in a bottle in a plastic bag it is sulfuric acid based.

Edit. spelling


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## Geo (Nov 5, 2012)

acpeacemaker said:


> http://mobile.walmart.com/m/phoenix...Buffered-Sulfuric-Acid-Drain-Cleaner/17133944
> 
> This is sulfuric, but I'm not sure how well it does. Drain cleaners can be sulfuric. Some are sodium hydroxide, and some are crap you don't want. Most of the time it will be under a brand name as a drain cleaner, not just labeled as sulfuric.
> 
> Andrew



when the name of the product has buffered in it, it has a buffering agent to keep it from dissolving metal. this may or may not interfere with its ability to strip the gold.


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## Anonymous (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks to all of you that have helped me out with the decision on purchasing some Sulfuric Acid. I decided to go with the 98% sulfuric on eBay, (2) 950 ml bottles with shipping was $35.00. I estimate by the 15th it should be here.

I guess my main joy of doing this is to actually see the acid turn from clear to black. The excitement wasn't there for me with anything else that is already black/dark in color. I just want to see the magic happen.

Kevin


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## kane333 (May 1, 2013)

I know this is an old post but I was doing some research after having foaming problems with Liquid Lightning in my cell. I came across a few different brands online of Sulfuric Acid. If anyone has experience with any of these, please chime in. Here is a short list of what I've found so far:

1. Name - _Zep-Flo Drain Solvent_. MSDS sheet says > %90 Sulfuric Acid. Specific Gravity = 1.83. I've bought Zep Hydrochloric Acid Toilet Bowl Cleaner at Home Depot but didn't use it since it was blue in color. I haven't looked to see if they have this Zep product. I haven't tried to order through Zepcommercial.com yet so they may require you to be a business.

2. Name - _Tempered Sulfuric Acid Drain Opener_. MSDS sheet says %86. Specific Gravity = 1.775. Again, not sure if you have to be a business to acquire this stuff but Venus Labs in Huntington Beach, CA has it, and BioChem Inc. in Salt Lake City, UT 
@cleaners-degreasers.com. The best thing about this one is, they describe it as the safest Sulfuric Acid based cleaner out of any. If you accidentally get some on you, you have about a minute to apply water where as most other Sulfuric Acid based drain cleaners instantly start burning your skin. But it is tempered, inhibited, and black in color. :| 

3. Name - _Zep Professional Sulfuric Acid Drain Opener_. MSDS sheet says %60-100 by weight. SG = 1.836. Same situation as Zep-Flo above. You may have to be a business to purchase through Zepcommercial.com. 

4. Name - _Drain Power_. MSDS sheet doesn't give percent by weight but with an SG of 1.84, it's over %90. Manufactured by Alliance in Manufacturing, LLC. St. Louis, Missouri. @ aim-alliance.com. This one looks like you'll definitely need to own a business to purchase this stuff, if you visit that website, but....Walmart.com shows one called Drain Power Professional Strength Drain Opener. I'll have to look into this. They don't give an MSDS for the brand Walmart sells.

5. Name - _Kleen-Out_. Available at Menards. %93 virgin Sulfuric Acid Drain Opener according to the description on Menards website but no MSDS to verify. 32oz bottle ~~ $6.98. Unfortunately for me, there are no Menards here in WV.

6. Name - _Busters Sulfuric Acid Drain Opener_. MSDS sheet %93. SG = 1.83 Red Translucent Liquid. @hdsupplysolutions.com has 32oz case of 12 for $59.99 with Free Shipping to the lower 48. This appears to be a great deal, if you're not required to be a business to do business with them.

7. Name - _Clean Shot Sulfuric Acid Drain Opener_ manufactured by TheoChem. Available at Lowes. %93 inhibited virgin sulfuric acid. No MSDS found. Online price shows 32oz @ $9.98.

I may give the Clean Shot a try. I just hope it doesn't have a foaming problem like Liquid Fire or Liquid Lightning.


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## jimdoc (May 1, 2013)

Look for Rooto.
http://www.retrowork.com/images/rooto/professionaldrainopener.html

Jim


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## kane333 (May 1, 2013)

jimdoc said:


> Look for Rooto.
> http://www.retrowork.com/images/rooto/professionaldrainopener.html
> 
> Jim




Where can you find Rooto like that locally without having to pay shipping? Looking at Amazon, we're talking over $50 a gallon at the cheapest.


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## jimdoc (May 1, 2013)

I get it at smaller hardware stores like Ace or True Value. They will probably order it for you also, unlike Lowe's or Home Depot that couldn't be bothered to do that for you.

Jim


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## Geo (May 2, 2013)

depending on your need, the 51 gallons for $399 breaks down to roughly $8 per gallon.

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=sulfuric

of course shipping will add to the cost but it has to be better than evaporating. after i found these guys were just minutes from my house, ive gotten all my chems from them.


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