# Button #4



## 2002valkyrie

The better I get the more my buttons want to crystalize is this normal? This button is my largest yet 2.33 troy ounces.


----------



## Oz

Normal, no.

Desirable, yes! It shows the high purity you have achieved, and the larger buttons also cool a bit slower helping crystalization. 

Great job.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

I am sure I left a big gap between my first button and my #4 button. So I will fill in that gap here. 
My first button was displayed here: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=6015 

Here is a pic of my second button. I have taken advice from Harold V. and kept it to use up unused Nitric at the end of the refining process. (This is really the best practice for getting rid of Nitric)
View attachment 2


Here is button #3. I sold it.

View attachment 1


----------



## Harold_V

2002valkyrie said:


> Here is a pic of my second button. I have taken advice from Harold V. and kept it to use up unused Nitric at the end of the refining process. (This is really the best practice for getting rid of Nitric)


Take note how using the button for eliminating free nitric develops the crystalline structure. That's typical. 

Harold


----------



## 2002valkyrie

I poured my first ingot. Unfortunatly I used my nitric burning button up and decided I would use the ingot. It worked great but lost a little weight. It started of weighing 1.37 oz. ended up weighing 1.28 oz. I was fortunate enough to show it to a friend who had to have it. Said he was going to make a pendant for himself. I got 100% of spot... Man I wish they were all that easy.


----------



## glorycloud

Well done! You are a living tribute to the value of this forum. 8)


----------



## 2002valkyrie

This button started out as an attemp to pour another ingot but I found out real quick that my Mapp Gas torch will not run without freezing up in 30 degrees weather. The button weighs 1.74 oz. and has beautiful color but is a far cry from an ingot.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

glorycloud said:


> Well done! You are a living tribute to the value of this forum. 8)


Thank you. That means allot to me considering there have been many people to benefit from this forum, but I may have came the greatest distance from where I was when I found the forum to where I am now. I will admit one thing that no one else has though; This is a great hobby but it is a "Big Boy's" hobby and if you are going to do this, then success comes from investments of time and money. And one must have the ability to humble himself and admit his ignorance so he can learn what must be learned. I have not reached my goal, Harold V. knows my goals as he is living proof of what comes from this wonderful hobby and I plan to be also. I will no doubt be one of the long term students here as I have a long way to go. There are many small tricks to the trade that are discussed regularly on the forum. I advise all nubes to pay attention to them and if you are going to do this then jump in whole hearted. There are people here that care enough to help them if it's over their head.


----------



## chemist

Valkyrie --- Those are beautiful buttons. Why do you refer to one of them as your "timesaver". If a button is used to consume the excess nitric in AR, I would expect this to happen slowly, even a elevated temperature. Wouldn't urea act faster to knock out the nitric if time is a concern?


----------



## 2002valkyrie

chemist said:


> Valkyrie --- Those are beautiful buttons. Why do you refer to one of them as your "timesaver". If a button is used to consume the excess nitric in AR, I would expect this to happen slowly, even a elevated temperature. Wouldn't urea act faster to knock out the nitric if time is a concern?


Harold V. as well as Hoke teach to use as little A.R. as possible thus inabling you to use up the nitric as you go. But I have not gotten as good as I should be and tend to need .08 oz more gold. The button allows you to keep the solution a small quantity as well as not adding anything that is not needed.


----------



## chemist

Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

Here is a picture of my solution before the drop after the button. It is so red you can't see through it.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

That is beautiful.


----------



## 61 silverman

2002valkyrie said:


> Here is a picture of my solution before the drop after the button. It is so red you can't see through it.


Valkyrie , How much AR in is your flask, with how much gold. That is a beautiful color...Mark


----------



## 61 silverman

Sorry just went back up I see it is 1.74 oz. NICE PIPE.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

I was just messing around with different methods of precipitation. The first drop I used copper because I didn't like the way the sollution looked. The second, I used SMB, but it was just what I expected. The third was oxalic acid and it was interesting to say the least. The forth I used SO2 gas and I really don't want to melt this drop. Each time it got faster and easier. So here is the pictures, keep in mind I used the same gold over and over.


----------



## shadybear

outstanding
I remember when I first started to read your posts and the aggravation you went through
It seems you have it worked out,great job!!
The climb up the mountain is always difficult but as you can now see the veiw is worth the
effort


----------



## goldenchild

2002valkyrie said:


> I poured my first ingot. Unfortunatly I used my nitric burning button up and decided I would use the ingot. It worked great but lost a little weight. It started of weighing 1.37 oz. ended up weighing 1.28 oz. I was fortunate enough to show it to a friend who had to have it. Said he was going to make a pendant for himself. I got 100% of spot... Man I wish they were all that easy.



How do you make this crystalized ingot? Where does Harold talk about saving a button to get rid of excess nitric?

thanks


----------



## Harold_V

goldenchild said:


> Where does Harold talk about saving a button to get rid of excess nitric?


I don't have a clue where I may have made mention, but it is a process used ONLY if you evaporate. When all of your feed has been dissolved, a weighed button of gold is then added to the solution, which would be kept warm enough for evaporation. As the solution concentrates, any free nitric will dissolve some of the button, or even all of it, assuming there is an abundance. 

This process is used to avoid using urea. I never used urea at any time. preferring to evaporate, but more importantly, to use only the amount of acid necessary to do the intended job. You get amazingly good at judging after you've refined for a while. 

However, I found it far faster to use a slight excess of acid when dissolving the values instead of trying to hit it dead on. That insured all values were dissolved when processing wastes that contained other substances, such as filings from a jeweler's bench. A slight excess insured the customer lost no gold. The added button eliminated the free nitric problem without effort on my behalf. I evaporated, regardless, because I preferred to keep my solutions highly concentrated. YMMV.

One word of caution. If you elect to use an added button of gold, do not be mislead by a lack of activity on the button as the solution gets concentrated. The cause can be due to the lack of free HCl, so to insure that is not the case, a small amount of HCl should be added to the solution as activity subsides. An excess of HCl does no harm, unlike free nitric. 

By weighing the button before, then after it has been used, you can determine how much gold you added to the solution. That was important for me, because I ran individual batches for each of my customers. I had to know their yield in order to settle. 

Harold


----------



## goldenchild

Harold_V said:


> I don't have a clue where I may have made mention, but it is a process used ONLY if you evaporate. When all of your feed has been dissolved, a weighed button of gold is then added to the solution, which would be kept warm enough for evaporation. As the solution concentrates, any free nitric will dissolve some of the button, or even all of it, assuming there is an abundance.
> 
> This process is used to avoid using urea. I never used urea at any time.
> Harold...



This makes perfect sense now. What I do to get rid of excess nitric is boil the AR down a few times adding HCL to rehydrate. Using this method will take the guess work out of when the nitric is completly spent. 

I agree with not using urea. I question if it really works. I think it may work if there are only very small amounts of nitric in the solution. 

So I guess I cant use this method to make crystalized ingots with specific weights(i always pour troy ounce ingots) but have a new technique to make my refining more efficient. Thanks Harold!


----------



## 2002valkyrie

I took pictures of this little ingot that weighed in just under 4 oz. The pictures are a sorry representation. This bad boy had a beautiful color and cristals all over. I did play a oxygen starved flame as well as a mapp gas flame over it for a few moments. I didn't even bother to clean it. The buyer fell in love and I picked up some more business.


----------



## Harold_V

Absolutely amazing how a little bit of tutoring can pay such huge dividends. 

Well done, 2002valkyrie!

Harold


----------



## nickvc

Harold_V said:



> Absolutely amazing how a little bit of tutoring can pay such huge dividends.
> 
> Well done, 2002valkyrie!
> 
> Harold


Indeed Harold and also well done you sir ,your knowledge and experience been freely passed on to a willing apprentice who listened and learnt. Note all newbies there is much to learn but patience and listening to advice really will pay dividends.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

I think I take better pictures of buttons than ingots cause these pictures do no justice. I have tried several different angles, lighting and distance. Oh well I never claimed to be a dang photographer. :lol:


----------



## Barren Realms 007

You should stick a quarter next to that thing for size comparrison.It is beautiful. 8)


----------



## 2002valkyrie

I thought about that a little too late. It's only 2.305 ozt. It is laying on a business card. So it has been blown up pretty big but the pictures are a poor representation of the ingot. I can't wait till I can start stocking my safe with some. I will pour an 8 ozt. Monday it will be my largest yet.


----------



## qst42know

That's a nice chunk.

A little on the nit picky side but it looked better without the scrubbing. What did you rub it with?


----------



## 2002valkyrie

qst42know said:


> That's a nice chunk.
> 
> A little on the nit picky side but it looked better without the scrubbing. What did you rub it with?


 I fooled around and let my son-in-law look at it and he was acting like himself and rubbed his nasty @$$ t-shirt on it like he was gonna clean it because I told him I had not cleaned it which I ment in sulfuric to remove flux. He's an idiot.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

2002valkyrie said:


> qst42know said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a nice chunk.
> 
> A little on the nit picky side but it looked better without the scrubbing. What did you rub it with?
> 
> 
> 
> I fooled around and let my son-in-law look at it and he was acting like himself and rubbed his nasty @$$ t-shirt on it like he was gonna clean it because I told him I had not cleaned it which I ment in sulfuric to remove flux. He's an idiot.
> How did you know it looked beter before he rubbed it and what is nit picky about it? You can't see the micro scratches without really looking for them, it's only 1.5 inches long.
Click to expand...


----------



## Scott2357

Actually, you might try a black velvet cloth background. Also, filter your light/flash through or bounce off of something white. That will eliminate hot spots and harsh shadows for even lighting. Should look very nice. Jewelry is always difficult to photograph too.


----------



## qst42know

It's nit picky of me to bring it up that's all. You can see the quality in the as cast surface but something about the photo really highlights the scratches. 

If you think gold is hard to photograph try etched glassware or polished sterling. :wink:


----------



## 2002valkyrie

I see them in the photo but holding it in my hand they are invisible, nonexistant. The flash of light coming from one direction had to be the culprit.


----------



## MiltonFu

Thats a great looking bar o' Gold.
Well done!.


----------



## Harold_V

MiltonFu said:


> Thats a great looking bar o' Gold.
> Well done!.


It is, indeed! I don't recall ever getting results like that. I'd have been well pleased had I. 

Harold


----------



## 2002valkyrie

Harold_V said:


> MiltonFu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats a great looking bar o' Gold.
> Well done!.
> 
> 
> 
> It is, indeed! I don't recall ever getting results like that. I'd have been well pleased had I.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...

Now I am happy! 8) To have my mentor give such a compliment! I am truely excited. 
If only I hadn't seen this picture of his ingots. After all it is my inspiration and my goal to be able to be consistant enough to have such results as the ones in the picture of Regal Refinery ingots. So much so that my company name is Regious Refining Co. In honor of Harold V. and the kindness and wisdom he's shown me. Thank you again Harold V.


----------



## Lou

Want to sell any of them perhaps?


----------



## 2002valkyrie

Lou said:


> Want to sell any of them perhaps?


 8) We want to sell them all! We had a set back today and my scrubber was down for a couple of hours and didn't finnish my biggest drop yet but tomorrow is only a day away.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

I broke my bigest crucible a while back when I knocked it off the counter and thought it would not be needed boy was I wrong. These 2 ingots weighed in right under 9 oz combined. I had to melt them in 2 lots because of the required space for the sponge. The buyer was still happy.I have ordered more crucibles.


----------



## glorycloud

Dang son - you are becoming a master at gold refining! 

Very nice!! 8)


----------



## 2002valkyrie

glorycloud said:


> Dang son - you are becoming a master at gold refining!
> 
> Very nice!! 8)


Thank you but I am still a "Grasshopper" and a long way from a master. I owe everything to this forum and the great people who have helped me. With a special thanks to Harold V. 
I can't wait to get a bigger crucible and fill that ingot mold up!


----------



## goldenchild

In your last picture the ingot in the middle looks edible.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

goldenchild said:


> In your last picture the ingot in the middle looks edible.


Yea it was... It fed the owner very well! Thank you for noticing it. I have enjoyed learning the great art of ingot pouring. If they don't pass my minute standards it happens agian and again... So I get plenty of practice. Good Au is the secret, then a decent mold that has been well preped. Needless to say, I am still learning. But I love to hear complements.


----------



## skeeter629

Would you mind showing us the mold that you used? I have been trying to find one that makes a good ingot.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

Here is a couple of ingots I poured today using 2 graphite molds placed togather and drilled a sproo hole in the end. Like a bookmold. I like them they are a little fat but for Silver it's a good weight.


----------



## goldenchild

Sweet! What did you use that can hold that much silver at once? I have a little over a pound and need something I can melt it all at once in.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

goldenchild said:


> Sweet! What did you use that can hold that much silver at once? I have a little over a pound and need something I can melt it all at once in.


Here is a picture of my set up I use when melting large lots of Silver or Jewelry. In this picture it's jewelry for inquartation.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

skeeter629 said:


> Would you mind showing us the mold that you used? I have been trying to find one that makes a good ingot.


Sorry for taking so long on this but life is not always permisable of that which we wish to accomplish. As you can see in the photos I use 2 different types of molds, 1 is cast and the other is machined hardend graphite.


----------



## 2002valkyrie

Never gets old!


----------



## philddreamer

Hi Val!

Quick question, how much oxilic is needed per gram of gold to be dropped?

Phil


----------



## 2002valkyrie

It's good to be back refining!


----------



## glorycloud

Nice and welcome back!! 8)


----------



## butcher

It is good to have our friend back, and nice to see your progress in refining.


----------

