# Help needed with chemicals.



## SapunovDmitry (May 25, 2008)

Hi everyone.
I am going to visit my grandma in Estonia this summer and there i will not be able to get SMB(there is no SMB sold at Tallinn chemical shop). :lol: What esle will precipitate gold good? I thnk i can try SO2 method as it was mentioned in Hoke's book. Can someone share his own experience? Or maybe i will be able to make SMB from household chemicals(i strongly doubt in it but still).


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## Harold_V (May 25, 2008)

SapunovDmitry said:


> I thnk i can try SO2 method as it was mentioned in Hoke's book. Can someone share his own experience?


Actually, Dmitry, when you use SMB you are using SO2. That's what does the work. The difference when you use the gas instead of the compound is that you simply open a valve----there is no mixing, and no increase in the volume of your solutions----something that is quite important when you refine large volumes at one time. 

I might suggest you explore the use of ferrous sulfate as a substitute for SMB. It does an excellent job, and isn't terribly expensive. Here in the States it can be found in better garden shops, where it is used as a source of iron (fertilizer) for plants. The crystals should be a pale green color, not the color of rust. It is very easy to use, with an ounce of the material enough to precipitate an ounce of gold. 

Hoke discuses ferrous sulfate at length, so it might pay you to explore what she has to say. It has been many years since I last used the material, or even read the book. My memory has dimmed considerably. I recall that it is dissolved in a little water, with a few drops of HCl added to clarify the solution. To precipitate, you simply pour the solution into the gold chloride solution after filtration. Precipitation is instantaneous and complete, assuming you have used enough ferrous sulfate. 

Note that it is important to eliminate any free nitric acid before precipitating. 

Have a nice visit with your grandmother.

Harold


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## SapunovDmitry (May 25, 2008)

Thanks Harold!
I will try making it or buying it.

Btw.About removing the nitric.
When i removed it last time i used glass bottle.
I didn't shake it as usual, and i saw kind of a border (like oil in water, but upper solution was light green,and the lower was a bit darker).I added urea and the border moved down. When the border reached the bottom of the vessel it ended bubbling. I think it's the easy way to know that you've removed almost all the nitric from the solution(It's the way i decide i removed all the nitric). What do you think?


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## Harold_V (May 25, 2008)

I never tried urea, Dmitry. I learned refining from Hoke's book, which doesn't mention the stuff. It was about the time I sold the refining business that I first heard of its use. 

I have mixed emotions. Some claim the use of urea complicates the recovery of the platinum metals, which were very much a part of my operation. Seems like some like it, and some hate it. I think if I was refining today, I'd still be evaporating------which is how I was comfortable. 

Harold


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## SapunovDmitry (May 25, 2008)

Thank you, Harold. 
I am really thankful for your help. Cause every time you write answers there are tons of experience in them.
Thanks again.


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## Irons (May 25, 2008)

Ferrous sulfate will precipitate Palladium. If you have a mixture of PGMs and Gold, it might be better to use Oxalic Acid or Ammonium Oxalate which are milder reducing agents.


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## goldsilverpro (May 25, 2008)

Hydroquinone. Sodium nitrite. Hydrazine. Hydrazine sulfate.


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## Noxx (May 25, 2008)

Hey Sapunov,
Just a side note to tell you that Urea does not neutralise nitric acid. In fact, it gets rid of any NOx remaining in solution.

That's what I learned recently from Lou


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## SapunovDmitry (May 25, 2008)

Yeah, now i know it too. It's a good and useful post Noxx,cause i didn't think of the chemistry that Urea provides. 
Now i will carefully study the chemistry of the process.
Thanks.


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## Irons (May 25, 2008)

goldsilverpro said:


> Hydroquinone. Sodium nitrite. Hydrazine. Hydrazine sulfate.



Hydrazine as a selective reducing agent?


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## goldsilverpro (May 25, 2008)

I worked for a company that use liquid hydrazine to selectively drop gold. I used hydrazine sulfate, for years, to selectively drop gold. Nothing is 100% selective, though. I guess you need to specify a threshold, to define the term.


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## SapunovDmitry (May 25, 2008)

As i remember from my school chemistry hydrozine is a stinky stuff. And also it's kind of a poison :shock: , and requires a good qualification for use. I don't think it's a good substitution for SMB to use at my grandma's backyard. But still, everything that goes with real experience is very interesting and useful. 
Thank you GSP and Irons.


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## ashir (Apr 14, 2020)

Preparing khso5, any help with process? (H2so4+h2o2)


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## Yggdrasil (Apr 14, 2020)

Ashir.
Please keep the posts that belongs to one thread in one that thread.
Hijacking old threads and "bombing" the forum with the same questions won't produce better replies.
You are posting all over now, I would believe this belongs to the Iridium thread you have been posting in?
There is an excellent search function in here and if I'm not mistaken these questions have been answered already.
Search for posts from amongst other Iridium chaser and while you are at it check Imrani from Pakistan
In the dangerous field of PGM salts I don't think spoon feeding you is a safe venture (for you).
Read and research, until you learn things properly.


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## ashir (Apr 14, 2020)

Yggdrasil said:


> Ashir.
> Please keep the posts that belongs to one thread in one that thread.
> Hijacking old threads and "bombing" the forum with the same questions won't produce better replies.
> You are posting all over now, I would believe this belongs to the Iridium thread you have been posting in?
> ...



I was thinking to not disturb that post irridium with making chemicals. I was looking batter to relate this post on base of making chamical, not related to IR only, but I will respect your choice( I got a patent there but I want learn it's process from other page )
Imrani is also looking for same thing, 
I am assure I will get it prepared from a chamical store and may be later on I not need it more, the reason was to be some others to reveal an other new process! And was thinking to post this link on that post that got same issue with khso5!


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## Yggdrasil (Apr 14, 2020)

Point one: 
If I'm not mistaken it has to do with your Iridium project, since you have been asking a lot of questions about Oxone there, that will in my eyes place it in that thread. The mods may slap my wrist if I'm wrong :wink: 

Point two:
Did you read what I wrote regarding the search function? It is the second time I ask you to search read and study.
I even gave you a person in Pakistan to reach out to.

Point three:
I would like you to concentrate on one thing at the time, and get that thing right before you go further.
You seem to get into trouble with whatever you try, and PGMs are NOT the place to get into trouble, it may be the last trouble you get, since it is quite toxic.

I would recommend you to put the material for the Iridium project aside and concentrate on solving your precipitation issues with the copperas.
Then you can figure out your pins and so on.


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## ashir (Apr 14, 2020)

Yggdrasil said:


> Point one:
> If I'm not mistaken it has to do with your Iridium project, since you have been asking a lot of questions about Oxone there, that will in my eyes place it in that thread. The mods may slap my wrist if I'm wrong :wink:
> 
> Point two:
> ...


 Point one ,
I see you "right"
I see myself"right may be" it was just a matter to expend the chemistry, the questions asked on IR post are for my knowledge, and I get from there that i can make it, so want to make it( that's why posted here) but I already apologise for that,

Point two. 
Yes, message received, understood, obeyed, (searched, study) wasn't enough, want more! Imran is already with me and I am assure he is using all his sources(much more ahead me) to fine khso5 from one end to other end of country, we both are in contact from the start of irridium post, 

Ponint three, 
It's always the responsibility of elders to make newbies to remember " it may be the last trouble you get" and thanks for caution me, 
I am searching even I have a load of papers that I write from where I get info, that's why I write on lino's post about IR copper coins, 

And it is in my lab, pins are occupying my lab from months, and so on is happening far away!! Buy the ways thanks, I am going to sit,relax, re read re read re read, and concentrate on one thing so it's not become my last trouble, thanks for guiding me towards goal


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## butcher (Apr 14, 2020)

Have you tried looking for the answer?

I did not ask any questions, to get an answer to my question.
Lino speaks in sentences that are sometimes hard for me to understand, I did not understand what he was discussing and have never heard the chemical called dry ozone, so instead of asking a bunch of questions I made a simple search for the answers to my questions, I quickly found what he was talking about potassium peroxymonosulfate a common pool or spa chemical, readily available from many sources...

If I search for the answers to my questions, I gain an understanding of a process by studying it and gain an understanding of how it works, and what problems are involved, I can study more from the information I gain from looking for answers to my questions and keep studying and searching for more information on the subject until it becomes almost impossible to find more information on it including the safety aspects which is paramount to success and well being. 


Then if I begin a project I am well prepared for problems...

If I ask a bunch of questions I get a bunch of answers, if I work from those answers I get a bunch of problems to ask more questions, after those answers I get more problems, I get nowhere, I do not get gold by asking questions.

I get gold by educating myself the best I can, and if I get stumped I may occasionally need to ask a question, but it is rare as I can normally find the answer with a little work and learn so much more from that work and study.

I will not try to refine PGM's, I collect them in a bar of silver for future processing, and whenever Ido get around to processing the silver I will let someone else deal with the toxic PGM powders, I have not the skill or the ability to acquire much of the PGM metals, although I do like to study about them and have done a few experiments, even after studying them for 10 years I do not get enough of them or have enough understanding to feel safe in trying to refine them, or have the skills needed to do so, so I will just recover what I do get melt it into my special silver bar and save it for now.


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## ashir (Apr 14, 2020)

Yes butcher, about khso5, it's same as you describe but I and imran search every possible place ( chamical shops, pool chamical suppliers, oil refineries...) Not get it, online sellers ask that they have not capability to deliver in Pak, 
You can imagine now batter why I want to make it, 

And it distribute my concentration on other projects, and it's my mistake
Yggdrasil and you are asking is more important , thanks for both!


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## Yggdrasil (Apr 14, 2020)

Where are you based in Pakistan?
I would believe that Lahore and Islamabad should have its share of good sized swimming pools.
Do not the big pool suppliers have the capacity to order this for you?
Of course it is possble to buy online, but price and transport are quite expensive I guess.


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## ashir (Apr 14, 2020)

Yggdrasil said:


> Where are you based in Pakistan?
> I would believe that Lahore and Islamabad should have its share of good sized swimming pools.
> Do not the big pool suppliers have the capacity to order this for you?
> Of course it is possble to buy online, but price and transport are quite expensive I guess.


 Expensis is the matter, every pool cham supplier say" when chlorine is cheap then why people use experienced nsive oxone, we not buy oxone as no market place because of just less few pools in the country", and if we ask to order them then answer is wait 2 months and not assure we will get it after two months, a person was agree to make it but his first line was" I not guarantee it will the same as you want" 
One chamical supplier told that we make it by mixing proxy and mono sulfates, and I ask it in IR post, but his concept is out of sense as I get the more on oxone


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## butcher (Apr 14, 2020)

https://www.google.com/search?q=potassium+peroxymonosulfate++swimming+pool+Ozone++supplier+Pakistan&sxsrf=ALeKk00XVeYg0ouOtPpBkWGjqr_fZ6uiHQ:1586921875991&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirotHVwOnoAhUGip4KHX8zDZkQ_AUoAnoECA0QBA&biw=956&bih=691

https://www.google.com/search?q=potassium+peroxymonosulfate+india+supplier&source=lmns&bih=691&biw=956&hl=en-GB&ved=2ahUKEwip7pqOv-noAhUkIn0KHUxKD-YQ_AUoAHoECAEQAA


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