# Lil Gold Trap. Anyone ever heard of this or used it before?



## Darkness Falls (Dec 19, 2015)

While looking around online about building a shaker table, I stumbled upon this contraption.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McHxAD5HWQA[/youtube]

I found it for sale online for $379usd. 
http://rb-mining.com/shop/lil-gold-trap/

It claims to be able to catch gold up to 600 mesh. Do you guys think this would work well with incinerated IC chips?


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## Pantherlikher (Dec 19, 2015)

Expensive toy I'd say.
You really do that much ash?

Looks easy enough to make as well.
Part of a rain gutter, water pump with some plumbing... The funnel would take a bit but can be made if you can't find something.

Just saying. $400 with shipping is a lot.

B.S.


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 19, 2015)

Pat made something very similar for a lot less and posted about it in the help in ridding ash from chips with water thread. You can probably make one for a lot less.

Dave


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## Darkness Falls (Dec 19, 2015)

Pantherlikher said:


> Expensive toy I'd say.
> You really do that much ash?
> 
> Looks easy enough to make as well.
> ...




It is Christmas time, a scrapper can dream can't he?!?! :lol:


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## Darkness Falls (Dec 19, 2015)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Pat made something very similar for a lot less and posted about it in the help in ridding ash from chips with water thread. You can probably make one for a lot less.
> 
> Dave



Thank you for that link, Dave! It amazes me how much info I still miss here on the forum. This could make a great early spring project.


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## patnor1011 (Dec 19, 2015)

I still did not put it all together for picture purpose and when I used it I did other things in mind camera somehow slipped from my mind. The idea is the same as in video you posted. I wrote about it somewhere here. 
I used big plastic tub with water - from there water flowed to another tub through cotton cloth filter like. That cleaned water pumped back to top of sluice - kinda recirculating closed system - to save on water cost. I left washed powder settle overnight and then I ran it through again, nothing much on second run but that was like safety measure. I hate throwing money out of window, I did it way too often before. :mrgreen:


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## Grelko (Dec 20, 2015)

Have any of you, tried to filter the ashes through a coffee filter?

(Typically coffee filters are made up of filaments approximately 20 micrometres wide, which allow particles through that are less than approximately 10 to 15 micrometres) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_filter

(Typical manufacturers make gold wire in diameters from 0.0005 inch (12.5 micrometres) and larger. Production tolerance on gold wire diameter is +/-3%) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_bonding

I've tried this before on a few grams of powder and it seemed to work about the same as panning, but not NEARLY as long. I just put the filter into a regular funnel, and place it on a mason jar, then rinse it through under a slow tap. If I think I missed anything, alot of the powder, and whatever is heaviest "gold" would be at the bottom of the jar.

The copper and gold "or aluminum" wires, should be the only things left in the filter, if you have completely burnt the chips to ash.

Edit - Now that I think about it, this could include some magnetic pieces, or glass die, etc. also, depending on how well you sift/crush it.

I haven't tried dumping in alot at once, because the filter might clog, but a couple spoonfuls of powder, then rinsing it through works. (I tried this, while I was panning chips last time, because I didn't have my catch pan in the sink)

Also, 2 or 3 filters may work better. I'll have to try again, once I burn up more chips.

Now, if you have ALOT of powder, then a sluice/shaker table would be easier.


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## patnor1011 (Dec 20, 2015)

I do not know if this will work as desired probably not. You mentioned diameter but what about length of wire?


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## Auful (Dec 20, 2015)

I have this cleanup sluice for my dredge cons: http://www.goldfeverprospecting.com/buslco.html It works well! It fits over a bucket and you can choose recirculation or not.  The key is to classify material so only material with like size is run through the sluice, otherwise large pieces disrupt the low pressure areas and knock smaller gold out. I think the same principal would apply with the concentrates from IC chips!


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## kurtak (Dec 20, 2015)

Everything used to make this was left over materials from doing other project including the matting which the larger piece was used for lining my tool box drawers - the only thing I had to buy (for making the sluice box) was the fittings to put the water bar together - so it was dirt cheap & only took me a couple hours to build

The holes in the water bar are spaced 1/2 inch & are I believe drilled 3/32 (maybe 7/64)

What I like about it is that its 16 inches wide so I can run more material faster then with a narrow one (like Pat's - which I also have one like) thats because you can feed the material back & forth across the top & that speeds up feed rate considerably

You want to be sure the holes in the water bar are drilled straight because if they are drilled at different angles the water will come out at different angle - so its best to drill them on a drill press with the pipe fastened down to a piece of wood so it can't turn/rotate as you go down the line drilling the holes - cut the pipe a little long to start with - drill holes used to screw it down to wood piece & then cut screw hole ends off to assemble the water bar 

Kurt


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## Grelko (Dec 20, 2015)

patnor1011 said:


> I do not know if this will work as desired probably not. You mentioned diameter but what about length of wire?



There's information about the lengths on this site http://www.amtechmicro.com/wire-bonding-guidelines/ ,(more accurately, about the loop height and length) but I'm not sure about the length of the wire used for every type of application.

Even if it's 0.1mm, that's 100um, and the coffee filters are 20um. The wires have a much higher chance of getting caught in the filter, especially if you used 2 of them. If you just go by the diameter of 12.5um, then yes, most of them would still go through the filter. However, you have to take into account for the ball at the end, it would give a higher probablility of them becoming trapped.

Particle size, for the "dust" that would be produced from crushing chips after burning them completely, I believe, would be classified as (Carbon black dust 0.2 - 10 um), which will go through the coffee filter "20um" very easily. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/particle-sizes-d_934.html

After crushing, the wires would most likely be bent, which can get them stuck in the filter. This would include the ones that are laying on their sides becoming trapped, because of their length. You could crush them too much, but that would potentially smear them and increase their width. If they break into pieces instead of smearing, they would need to be broken into at least 5 even pieces at the 0.1mm length, for all of it to pass through the filter. If they do break that way by chance, then using 2 or 3 filters would lower the amount of the broken wires getting through by alot.

Edit - fixed "they they" in last sentence


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## kurtak (Dec 21, 2015)

Grelko said:


> Have any of you, tried to filter the ashes through a coffee filter?



I can assure you that coffee filters "will not" work for trying to wash the ash off incinerated IC chip to concentrate it down to cleaner bonding wires for processing



> I've tried this before on a few grams of powder and it seemed to work about the same as panning,



sure - you "may" have "some degree" of success on a "few grams" IF all the ash is ground "ultra" fine but after a "few" grams the filter is going to start plugging up & stop working & then "wet" paper likes to tear - double or triple the filter & the plugging problem is increased --- beyond a "few" grams you are going find yourself changing out over & over & over again to new filters - its just not going to happen & most certainly not on any volume of ash 

Before you go posting any more ong posts about the "theory" try running a pound & then tell us how it actually worked out for you :roll: 

Kurt


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## kurtak (Dec 21, 2015)

Concerning the OP --- looks like a total waste of money to me - there are better systems that can be bought much cheaper & work better &/or if you are handy you can build your own for cheap (the purpose for my posting my first post in this thread)

Kurt


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## MarcoP (Dec 21, 2015)

Kurt, wouldn't bonding wires tangle in the mat? It seems to be made off synthetic fabric. It will catch them all, but how easy is to remove wires from the mat ... will you use a hard brush, toothbrush like?

Marco


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## Pantherlikher (Dec 21, 2015)

I believe it's a rubber mat with ridges. It's for lining a tool box and I have used them as such.
Didn't think of that for this purpose. Should work excellent as long as it's long enough for the volume.
Thanks for the tip.

B.S.


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## Grelko (Dec 21, 2015)

kurtak said:


> Before you go posting any more ong posts about the "theory" try running a pound & then tell us how it actually worked out for you :roll:
> 
> Kurt



I'll run some tests, then let everyone know how it turns using a pound or more, when I work on chips next. I still have 15+ pounds to go through.


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## Darkness Falls (Dec 28, 2015)

Here's a question for anyone. What would be a good vibration motor for a setup like this?


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## butcher (Dec 29, 2015)

A small DC motor can be made into a simple vibrator, add an off balanced weight to the shaft, changing the speed of the DC motor can also change how it vibrates.


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## rickbb (Dec 29, 2015)

You can get cheap vibrating massage type units. Easy enough to bolt one on to a table.


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## Grelko (Jan 8, 2016)

Grelko said:


> I'll run some tests, then let everyone know how it turns using a pound or more, when I work on chips next. I still have 15+ pounds to go through.



I retract my previous statement about my "theory" on filtering ashes with a coffee filter.

Even if you crush the ashes until the pieces had the potential to be considered almost "microscopic", they still have the tendancy to get trapped within the fibers of the filter. If the filter isn't folded, and the bottom is flat, so that you have a larger surface area to filter the ashes through, the bonding wires and/or copper wires, will make it so that there is less "filterable area" for the powder to go through, resulting in the powder getting stuck between these wires.

If there are any pieces of the ashes that are even slightly bigger than the filter mesh, they get caught, which catches other pieces along side of them, even if some of those pieces are small enough to pass through. Two or three filters, makes even more particles get caught, and it clogs up faster.

Also, the powder itself, likes to clump up and get caught in the filter "like a type of mud", when it is extremely finely crushed and gets wet.

Panning the ashes, or running them with a different process will work much better, and you won't waste nearly as much water.

I tip my hat to you Kurtak, for the statement you posted about running a pound of ashes. After testing this "theory" I had, I believe that at least 90% of the time used to try this, wasn't worth it in the first place (I should have tested it first, then posted the results). I won't be trying to filter ashes with a coffee filter again. :lol:


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## Darkness Falls (Jan 11, 2016)

Well, I decided I was going to make one of these instead of buying. It was going to be a spring project but it turns out I couldn't wait. Now add this to the other dozen projects I'm doing consecutively, and my wife just might file for divorce. :lol: 

I will create a build thread if anyone is interested in such a thing. I've already started on it but I'm still trying to source everything I'll need.


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## darinventions (Feb 1, 2016)

Mannn! Don't buy that...it is so simple to make...for under $100.00(if you buy everything new) Pm me an ill give you a list of stuff to get an where to get it...


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