# Ore identification please help



## jdizzel07 (Feb 19, 2021)

I cant find any ores online similar to mine. Will somebody help me identify. #1 The grey looking ones look like silver. Very shiny. they also crumble when touched. #2 is what I believe to be gold and pyrite mixed. under magnification the gold color material is splattered like gold but has some crystals that have flat sides i assume that's pyrite. #3 looks like platinum or palladium I'm not sure. I will tell you what mine these came from after I get some responses. the mine is 140 years old I can say that much. Thanks for your reply's.


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## butcher (Feb 19, 2021)

Just my uneducated guess, it is hard to tell much from just seeing pictures, it looks like an iron rich ore, giving the rusty environmental oxidation on surface-exposed to the surface over time, the rock also may be loaded with pyrite one of the many types of iron ore. 

a little study in rock type identification can help narrow down your search, hardness, luster, crystalization, acid tests, and so on can help you identify different rock types, many times these will also give clues to which metals or metallic-mineral salts or gangue materials the rock may possibly be composed of, and other such information as if it may contain arsenic, sulfur, or selenium or so on.

Assay's (there are several types and many times you may need more than one type, the assay can tell you much more, not only what values it may contain, but also give you information of processing and the dangers which will be involved, as well as possibly giving you clue to processing if needed, or at least enough information to find out how other mining operations in your area are processing the ore, are they crushing it for road gravel or mining it for gold...


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## Maysam (Dec 6, 2021)

jdizzel07 said:


> I cant find any ores online similar to mine. Will somebody help me identify. #1 The grey looking ones look like silver. Very shiny. they also crumble when touched. #2 is what I believe to be gold and pyrite mixed. under magnification the gold color material is splattered like gold but has some crystals that have flat sides i assume that's pyrite. #3 looks like platinum or palladium I'm not sure. I will tell you what mine these came from after I get some responses. the mine is 140 years old I can say that much. Thanks for your reply's.


Most of the time gold comes with pyrite, those shiny points are pyrite. If there's quartzs veins too, there must be gold in it. I suggest stannous chloride test as it's fast and reliable.


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## voidforged (Dec 6, 2021)

Pic 1 looks like a bunch of mica, pics 2 and 3 are definitely pyrite or chalcopyrite, more likely the former since chalco tends to get colorful over time. I doubt theres any gold worth recovering in there but if you want to be sure crush some of it up, roast it to drive off sulphides and other volatiles, and either pan it out or do a fire assay.


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## galenrog (Dec 7, 2021)

What does the assay say?

Time for more coffee


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## orvi (Dec 7, 2021)

Maysam said:


> Most of the time gold comes with pyrite, those shiny points are pyrite. If there's quartzs veins too, there must be gold in it. I suggest stannous chloride test as it's fast and reliable.


depends on geology and the location in the world. region of Carpathian mountains (europe), where i live, have numerous pyrite/quartz outcroppings, but no gold involved most of the times  it is a good lead, gold like the sulfur, arsenic and antimony...however not every time


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## Maysam (Dec 7, 2021)

What do you think about quartz and limonite porous basic ore? I've found these samples in a volcanic area near 3 faults.


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## Rick & Carrie (Jan 30, 2022)

Of the first three photos posted; Photo #2 is a possible option for silver, photo #3 is a decent option for gold and possibly silver too.


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## Reno Chris (Jan 31, 2022)

Unless you can see visible gold, you cant just look at a rock and know its ore. If that were possible, there would be no need for assays - but miners have been doing assays for many centuries. You can crush up a couple pounds and carefully pan the material to see if there is any gold, and that is a rough and approximate test that can be done at home. If there is little or no gold on the panning test, its not good ore. Quartz is the most common mineral on Earth, being made of the 2 most common elements in the Earth's crust. Its important to remember that there are HUGE amounts of quartz with little or no gold. Finding some chunks of quartz is meaningless. If it has good gold, then that is another thing, but rich gold quartz is quite rare. This is the type of stuff you want to find.


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## orvi (Jan 31, 2022)

Reno Chris said:


> Unless you can see visible gold, you cant just look at a rock and know its ore. If that were possible, there would be no need for assays - but miners have been doing assays for many centuries. You can crush up a couple pounds and carefully pan the material to see if there is any gold, and that is a rough and approximate test that can be done at home. If there is little or no gold on the panning test, its not good ore. Quartz is the most common mineral on Earth, being made of the 2 most common elements in the Earth's crust. Its important to remember that there are HUGE amounts of quartz with little or no gold. Finding some chunks of quartz is meaningless. If it has good gold, then that is another thing, but rich gold quartz is quite rare. This is the type of stuff you want to find.


Very nicely said. Majority of gold comes with quartz, majority of quartz comes without single flake of gold  So many people find a glittering rock and firstly think it is something extremely valuable. Most of the times, it´s mica or oxidized pyrite. Refusing to take an advice and do the assay, they jump straight to the acid tests and unconclusive messing up etc... 

For me, first test is to crush and pan. If I find the gold, perfect. If I don´t, in my situation there is no way to proces any reasonable ammount of sulfidic ore rich in silver/gold. So, big sad... Life goes on 

Somebody may be interested also in the bulk processing of rich ore with invisible gold, but as you say, without proper analysis, it is all just guessing. Like many times here on the forum, assuming if some 4 glittery-like pixels on the photo are gold or pyrite/mica in some casual-looking rock  and so many being totally certain about their guess to be the truth without any other proof.

Good specimens


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## MicheleM (Jan 31, 2022)

@Reno Chris gorgeous samples! I would like to find minerals like that only to collect them like they were ancient artworks


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## Rick & Carrie (Jan 31, 2022)

Reno Chris said:


> Unless you can see visible gold, you cant just look at a rock and know its ore. If that were possible, there would be no need for assays -


The first three photos by jdizzel07 are the photos that I was commenting on.

If you can not identify metal rich mineralized rock that may contain precious metals, as well as what precious metals the rock may contain, then you have much to learn.

I know that I can.

The many samples of mineralized rock (ores) sent to me for an assay that I speculated contained gold or silver, and did; as well as the ores that I have found speculating the same have proven such to myself and to those that I have been of service to.

For me, it's no longer does the sample in question contain gold or silver; the question is how much does it contain, and a fire assay will determine that.


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## goldshark (Jan 31, 2022)

Assay, assay, assay. Some of the biggest deposits currently mined, have no visible gold. Some of the richest mines in our area are what appear to be a clay gouge seem in a fault. They actually are composed of mainly a calcium gangue, and brecciate pieces from the wall rock. Crushing to - 200 mesh and panning reveals no visible gold. The stuff fire assays at around 20 OZ/Ton. You will never know till you do a proper assay. Mixed among this seam are the occasional nugget.


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## Rick & Carrie (Jan 31, 2022)

goldshark said:


> Assay, assay, assay. Some of the biggest deposits currently mined, have no visible gold. Some of the richest mines in our area are what appear to be a clay gouge seem in a fault. They actually are composed of mainly a calcium gangue, and brecciate pieces from the wall rock. Crushing to - 200 mesh and panning reveals no visible gold. The stuff fire assays at around 20 OZ/Ton. You will never know till you do a proper assay. Mixed among this seam are the occasional nugget.


Nicely stated and point made. Not all valuable ores will pan.


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## Reno Chris (Jan 31, 2022)

> *If you can not identify metal rich mineralized rock that may contain precious metals, as well as what precious metals the rock may contain, then you have much to learn.*



Its so wonderful to have found someone as knowledgeable as you are! Just to confirm your extensive expertise, I have attached 10 pictures of some rock. Can you well me which of these have significant gold? I actually know about all 10, so I know the correct answers from testing and assaying, but I am sure you will get 100% correct! Please let us know your determinations. Just a hint, there is no visible gold in any of them, though some are very rich in gold.


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## Rick & Carrie (Feb 1, 2022)

Sample #1. The samples of hematite enriched material similar to this that I have assayer has never been any less than 1/5 of an oz per ton gold.

#'s 6, 7 & 10 are my other choices for most likely material.

Sample #7 would be suspect for silver and possibly pgm's.

#'s 2, 3 & 5 would be secondary choices with expectations of silver being dominant.

There, I answered your retort.
Let's see how I scored.


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## orvi (Feb 1, 2022)

Rick & Carrie said:


> Sample #1. The samples of hematite enriched material similar to this that I have assayer has never been any less than 1/5 of an oz per ton gold.
> 
> #'s 6, 7 & 10 are my other choices for most likely material.
> 
> ...


My experience with hematite here is anywhere I found the nice iron ore like #1, it contain no gold. Not saying that hematite ore do not have gold anywhere in the world. But here, I do not know of any that do.
And our country has mining history of over 3000 years. Just no hematite type ore. Strange for many, but it is what it is. Numerous quartz hydrothermal outcroppings here, volcanic breccia stuff, supergene gold, mustard gold, strange gold-copper alloys in perm type rocks (wild to hear, just recently found), gold-nickel alloys of mustard gold, sulfidic ores of nearly any kind, gold in carbonates, barite, associated with uranium and rare earth minerals (this is a quite rich deposit, yet very small), flysch paleoplacer deposits, porphyry deposit with more than 40 tons of gold suitable for open pit/cyanide... But no obvious gold-hematite association known to me.

Of course, you can do "educated guess" on any rock you find. Question is if you want to extrapolate few known examples to whole array of different samples from different regions.


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## orvi (Feb 1, 2022)

goldshark said:


> Assay, assay, assay. Some of the biggest deposits currently mined, have no visible gold. Some of the richest mines in our area are what appear to be a clay gouge seem in a fault. They actually are composed of mainly a calcium gangue, and brecciate pieces from the wall rock. Crushing to - 200 mesh and panning reveals no visible gold. The stuff fire assays at around 20 OZ/Ton. You will never know till you do a proper assay. Mixed among this seam are the occasional nugget.


Similarly bizzare deposit was once mined here. Supergene gold, surface mining no deeper than 30-40 m. Hydrothermally altered andesite with numerous faults, cracks and dislocations filled with clay material or manganese dioxide rich black "mud"  Host rock was sterile for gold, yet containing so much pyrite and sulfides. 
Samples of this manganese dioxide muddy "ore" assayed from 10-100g/ton gold and similar silver. Gold particles were on the borderline of visibility. Significant fraction under 0,1 mm. Sticky, water repelling thick heavy mud. 
Simultaneously, in some cracks, there were very nice quartz crystals, which were than covered with gold rich fluids and some very nice specimens are found with weathered pyrite/tetradymite crystals on the top of small quartz points with occasional small flakes of gold. But these were rare.
It is unknown to this date how miners in 13-16th century were able to recover the contained gold.


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## kurtak (Feb 1, 2022)

Reno Chris said:


> Unless you can see visible gold, you cant just look at a rock and know its ore. If that were possible, there would be no need for assays


Well said Chis (& nice specimens by the way)

Back in the late 70s early 80s when I lived in Northern California (Salmon River district of the Klamath/Trinity National Forest) there were two hard rock miners (LOTS of placer miners)

One of the hard rock miners held the paper on an old hard rock claim that was about a half mile hike down to the old cabin & tunnel - the tunnel of course had caved in but outside the tunnel was a pile of ore

I spent a winter snowed in & living in the old cabin (had to hike about 3 miles down the mountain to Franks place if/when I needed to go to town

Anyway - to make a long story short - that pile of ore - you could break rocks all day long & look at them with a loop & never see so much as a speck of gold - however that ore assayed at around 4 ozt/ton (plus/minus depending on sample)

That summer (after spending the winter snowed in at the cabin) I packed that pile of ore out with my horses & mules - hauled it down to the mill site & ran it - figure it was like 10 -12 tons

It was the assays that told us it was worth packing the ore out

Edit to add; - top two pics are standing on the logging road where the trail down to the cabin is/was

Kurt


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## kurtak (Feb 1, 2022)

Some pics to verify my story - the bottom left pic is at the pile of ore I packed out


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## kurtak (Feb 1, 2022)

Some more pics of my days living on the Salmon River (California not Idaho)

Spent 7 years basically "camped out" --- 3 of those year I lived in a 12 X 14 wall tent - the kind with a stove hole for a wood stove - one year in the old cabin at the hard rock mine then I up graded to a camper trailer --- then the forest service came in & kicked EVERYBODY out including miners with permits & plans of operations & they burned ALL the cabins 

It was so far back in the mountains it still had one of the very last old "crank" phone systems working - NO TV NO electric unless you provided your own & lucky to get a couple radio stations - even the paved road was basiclly a one lane road where if you met on the road (someone going down river & someone going up river) the person going down river would have to back up to a wide spot

Fryday & Saturday nights people would get together with guitars/fiddles/banjos/mandolins/spoons/base wash tub etc. at Snips Resort or Forks of Salmon Community Hall & do what we called the Solmon River Stomp

The pic of my pickup truck upside down in the road was the result of to much moonshine at one of those Salmon River Stomps

Those where some of the best years of my life - I literally got to live (7 years) of a piece of history - it was literally taking a step back in time

Kurt


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## MicheleM (Feb 1, 2022)

What an incredible adventure, @kurtak thank you for share it


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## kurtak (Feb 1, 2022)

MicheleM said:


> What an incredible adventure, @kurtak thank you for share it


Yes it was & I still like to live that way as much as possible which is why I live where I do

Grant County Oregon is the 5th largest county in Oregon & is mostly national forest & has a population of only a little over 7,000 people - there is only one stop light in the entire county

I spend much of my free time hiking, hunting, fishing & gold panning - I have a really *BIG* back yard

When I first moved here & told my friend the nearest Wal-Mart was about a three hour drive away they couldn't believe anybody lives that far away from a Wal-Mart - to which I tell them - it's a good thing - really *!!!* LOL

Kurt


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## galenrog (Feb 2, 2022)

I can attest to the extraordinary number of traffic lights in Grant County. For over 20 years, my wife and I would drive from western Oregon to eastern Idaho. When I had time, I would turn right in Vale, if heading home. If heading to Idaho, I would turn left in Sisters. Much more enjoyable drive than Hwy 20 or I-84. Does take a few hours more than either, however. Absolutely love the area.

Which Walmart do you use when you bother to take the drive? Redmond or Ontario?

Time for more coffee.


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## BlackLabel (Feb 4, 2022)

Reno Chris said:


> Please let us know your determinations. Just a hint, there is no visible gold in any of them, though some are very rich in gold.


If I may precipitate…
My guess: The samples 1, 4, 6, 9, 10 contain gold.


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## Rick & Carrie (Feb 4, 2022)

I have no issue with the participation. As for myself, I am still awaiting a response from Chris so that we all can see how I scored. I know that I want to know.


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## MicheleM (Feb 4, 2022)

Ok let me play to be the background noise , I have no experience , so practically random choices: 4, 7, 8,10


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## orvi (Feb 4, 2022)

Well, when everybody is playing... So I will also do. I assume these specimens/rocks originated somwhere in the US. We can compare it with my wiew, as I only know and seen ores from Carpathian mountains, Europe 

1. as I said, here, no gold in hematite ores.
2. this looks to me like some paleobasalt rock with agates, but I could be way off. Just look familiar with egg-like inclusions and overall apearance, compared to locally mined stuff. And here, only minor chalcopyrite/barite/pyrite which are sterile for gold.
3. for the first look, my first guess will be antimonite or kermezite (or other sulfide with needle like crystalline structure). host rock seems to have quartz/chalcedony (??) or some other mineral, here I am clueless. But here, hydrothermall Au-Sb or Au-Sb-As deposits are very common, I will say MAYBE some values in this one.
4. contain probably some sulfides on the right side of sample. Plus quartz... For me it´s MAYBE for hidden values. As typical samples of invisible gold here, originating in classic epithermal deposits could look like this.
5. this resemble me breccia what was mined in one site here. It filled the faults, and was mix of various chips and bits of host rock, quartz and clay minerals sticked together by carbonate cement. Contained good gold, and also pyrite and arsenopyrite. So on basis of my observations here - yes, I would vote for this one to contain Au.
6. looking at this rock, I have no clue. No obvious minerals, from the photo I am unable to make any guess.
7. sulfidic looking, like antimony/tetraedrite/galena ore or maybe specularite (??). Looking metallic, host rock also seems like it undergone some altereration (maybe a good sign)...Visible quartz... I will say MAYBE also for this one for values, but more likely for silver than gold.
8. this is tough guess. Most probably weathered pyrite or other well-crystallized sulfide in quartz. But the quartz looks quite coarse-grained, much more like quartz from metamorphic rocks (phyllite/schist) seen here. And they are sterile for gold and any other values here. So, no for this one.
9. this resemble some sedimentary volcanic rock like tuff for the first look for me. Nothing obvious to notice, from the photo I cannot conclude anything. 
10. look like some well crystallized sulfide, but from majority of the crystals being "tetrahedral-like" in shape, maybe not pyrite. Tetrahedrite ? I dont know. Some sulfide is present, but here, ore with no visible gold never look like this (well crystalline sulfidic ore), so no for this one.

So overall based on experience in my area, here are my best guesses for MAYBE: 3, 4, 5, 7
As MicheleM said, this attempt could be also better sorted as "random noise"  just to underline how difficult is to asses value of something just from photos, with no proof/test/location available.


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## Rick & Carrie (Feb 4, 2022)

If you can identify minerals and know the associated accessory metals commonly caught up within the crystal lattice of minerals, it vastly improves your chances of finding hidden gold as well as selecting choice specimens to send off for assay; though a representative sample of the vein or outcrop will give a more accurate assay of the deposit in question.


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## orvi (Feb 5, 2022)

Rick & Carrie said:


> If you can identify minerals and know the associated accessory metals commonly caught up within the crystal lattice of minerals, it vastly improves your chances of finding hidden gold as well as selecting choice specimens to send off for assay; though a representative sample of the vein or outcrop will give a more accurate assay of the deposit in question.


Yes, that is the case with obvious "ores", which contain visual indicators, and is the standard procedure for doing it right. In my area, no ore with appreciable gold content has signs of developed sulfide crystals or entrapped values in crystal lattices of the minerals. It is always dispersed through quartz or some carbonate cement, or it is locked inside nearly invisible arsenopyrite crystals inside quartz. Or completely sterile looking white porphyry rock - nothing in there, no grain structure, no other associated minerals, which belong to the biggest deposite to be mined here, containing roughly 40 tons of gold.
It just cannot be said from the first look reliably. It is extremely helpful for professional prospector to roughly know what to get assayed - to save time and money for the customer. From the other side, if you do not know the exact area geology, what to look for, how typical ore samples from productive outcroppings look like, you cannot be certain about it without assay in your hand.


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## orvi (Feb 5, 2022)

Here are examples of typical gold ore with invisible gold in my area. Shiny sulfidic sample is antimony/gold ore, which have also some silver content, but just few grams per ton. No well defined/grown crystals of sulfides. All other samples are ore samples, which were mined or are still mined for gold. Sliced specimen with polished face also contain some gold particles on the borderline of visibility.


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## Rick & Carrie (Feb 5, 2022)

Nice sample photos. As for samples without obvious mineralization, high heft (specific gravity) is what should be looked for; as such material will be a good bet when considering possible ore to be assayed.


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## Rick & Carrie (Feb 10, 2022)

No new posts or reply from Chris?


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## Rick & Carrie (Feb 10, 2022)

Reno Chris said:


> Its so wonderful to have found someone as knowledgeable as you are! Just to confirm your extensive expertise, I have attached 10 pictures of some rock. Can you well me which of these have significant gold? I actually know about all 10, so I know the correct answers from testing and assaying, but I am sure you will get 100% correct! Please let us know your determinations. Just a hint, there is no visible gold in any of them, though some are very rich in gold.


Hey Chris; are you ever going to post an answer stating which samples contain precious metals?

Your hesitation to post such makes it seem obvious that you just ate a truckload of crow with your snappy reply.

We all want to see the answers.

You should have posted those ore photos with the assay results long ago for the prospecting community to have learned from.

As I said before; "Once The Rockman", Always The Rockman.

As McArthur once said; ..."I have returned."

I am not just "Another Rockman" on this forum, I am "The Rockman" of this forum. Nuff said.


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 10, 2022)

Chris pops up from time to time, when he is back from what ever trips he is doing.
He will reply in time.


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## Rick & Carrie (Mar 21, 2022)

orvi said:


> Of course, you can do "educated guess" on any rock you find. Question is if you want to extrapolate few known examples to whole array of different samples from different regions.


Apparently you have never heard of "Deposit Models".

IOCG deposits.
(Iron ore Copper Gold).



Yes; I can extrapolate based on a few samples.

I was told by a couple of old prospectors as a young child that "The redder, The better" when it comes to Gold Ore. Experience has proven them correct.

Here is a classic photo of hematite, an iron oxide intimately associated with gold deposits.


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## Rick & Carrie (Mar 21, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Chris pops up from time to time, when he is back from what ever trips he is doing.
> He will reply in time.


How long does it take? He has been gone for over a month.


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## BlackLabel (Mar 21, 2022)

Yeah, we want to know if we won and what we won! ;-)


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## Rick & Carrie (Mar 21, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> Yeah, we want to know if we won and what we won! ;-)


Lmao! \m/ \m/


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## orvi (Mar 21, 2022)

Rick & Carrie said:


> Apparently you have never heard of "Deposit Models".
> 
> IOCG deposits.
> (Iron ore Copper Gold).
> ...



Yes I heard about it. My mother is a mineralogist and I was told numerous things as child, too. Lots of time searching the old mine dumps for specimens of various minerals, and later also for gold.

What I meant by extrapolation was that you can extrapolate in your area based on your experience. If I was ever to search for gold somwhere in Arizona or Nevada, I will be probably completely lost.
If you were ever to search for gold here in central Europe, based on experience with US deposits, you will also had hard time based on your previous experience. With deep study of geology and topology it will be much more doable.

Some deposit models could also apply here. But basically said, ore here look greatly different.

Nice sample. I was always amazed by some ore types very common in US in general. Also, here, it is practically impossible to do any mining without some serious stash of money. Staking a claim, or small scale operations here are practically imposible to do, not to mention extreme public oposition and resistance.. I always dream about having some small area where I can get small excavator, drill some holes, process few tons of ore per month, just for relax. Sadly, I am living in wrong country


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## Rick & Carrie (Mar 22, 2022)

orvi said:


> If you were ever to search for gold here in central Europe, based on experience with US deposits, you will also had hard time based on your previous experience. With deep study of geology and topology it will be much more doable.
> 
> Some deposit models could also apply here. But basically said, ore here look greatly different.



I would do as well there as I do here; without question.

Many envy me because of my skill set, and that I can find ore bodies as easily as I do.

This is a thread from back in my early days on this site sharing the level of knowledge and understanding I had and currently have on the subject of ore deposits.

Thread '"GoldBug University". Ore photo's, tips, hints, etc.' "GoldBug University". Ore photo's, tips, hints, etc.

I have very little need of any further study on the topic of ores, ore bodies and the minerals that they contain.


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## Yggdrasil (Mar 22, 2022)

I really can't say, but my experience is, that the more you learn about a topic, the more you understand how restricted your knowledge is. 
So I find your statement a bit puzzling.


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## Rick & Carrie (Mar 23, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I really can't say, but my experience is, that the more you learn about a topic, the more you understand how restricted your knowledge is.
> So I find your statement a bit puzzling.


Read "Goldbug University" and you might understand my sentiment. 

I know far more now than I did back then, and I was good back then.

30 plus years of study and learning combined with wisdom and understanding.


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## Rick & Carrie (May 15, 2022)

It has become openly obvious that Reno Chris isn't going to come back and tell us which samples contain Gold.

I am reasonably certain that it is because it would validate my skill set and diminish his own reputation at the same time.

I looked him up on YouTube awhile back and spoke with him there on the subject of coming back here to post an answer.

He stated that he would, and never did.

Therefore, here are the screen caps of our conversation with each other on YouTube.


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## Yggdrasil (May 15, 2022)

What is you trying to accomplish by this?


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## Rick & Carrie (May 15, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Chris pops up from time to time, when he is back from what ever trips he is doing.
> He will reply in time.


That you were, and are trying to cover for Chris. You bit, and it worked.

Many here know that Chris and I are Titans in the Prospecting/Mining World.

We both know and understand much.

What I didn't know is that Chris is someone who's work I studied way back as part of my study to become as good as I am.

Instructor and Student butted heads. 

I put my former instructor in his place by answering his challenge correctly.

He has no desire to validate my skill set.

Many here would like those answers from Chris.

It won't happen.

With all that said; 
my point has been made.


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## Yggdrasil (May 16, 2022)

Well I have no idea who he is, besides his appearance on the forum.
But I do not like ill speaking about anybody that are not present and can defend themself.
He probably is a big boy and can speak out when he is back.
So then you boys can fix this among yourselves in a manner you agree upon.

So that is why I asked what you hoped to accomplish by that.
You may be the King himself but the only one looking bad now in my eyes right now is you.

So please you two, fix this another place.


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## MicheleM (May 16, 2022)

I would like to know the answers to the original "quiz". Anyway I never heard nobody call himself "Titan" in his field, and i spoke with more than one nobel prize in my life


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## kurtak (May 16, 2022)

Rick & Carrie said:


> I put my former instructor in his place by answering his challenge correctly.


OMG Rick - get off your high horse !!!

*Chris is a VERY highly valued member of this forum* who takes his time (when he has time) to "try" to help people out

He has been at this just as long as you have & knows as much as you do - in fact you admit that he has been a teacher to much of what you know - & yet you come on here to challenge him - even confront him - for no other reason then to prove yourself better then the man that helped to teach you

That would be like me challenging - even confronting - my teachers - like 4metals, Harold_v, GSP, nickvc (& others) with no other purpose then to now try to prove myself as better then them

This *is NOT* a place for a pissing contest to see who is better &/or the best --- it a place to discuss & teach things related to the recovery & refining of PMs

I just had to "correct" you on a matter in this thread ----- 









Cinnabar?


If the bead is inquarted with at least three grams of silver, then digested in nitric, it would part the Gold and any pgm's present as a fine powder. Brown powder for gold, and a silvery gray powder for pgms if I remember correct. Try a partial digest in acid clorox, remove the bead, heat the...




goldrefiningforum.com





Does the FACT that I had to correct you on that matter make me a better man then you ??? --- certainly not - it just means there was a correction in order to what you posted for the benefit of all 

Most all of us (if not all of us) that have been long time members of this forum have nothing short of *absolute respect* for Chris in his taking his time to post what he knows here to help members out 

IMO - all this finger pointing at Chis you are doing - for no other reason then to try to prove yourself better then him - is doing nothing other then proving yourself to be a complete ass --- don't forget - as you point *a* finger at Chris - three fingers are pointing back at you !!!

There is no question that you are good at what you do & know Rick & therefore you are certainly able to help others out - BUT - *you are NOT THE MAN - & you are NOT BETTER THEN CHRIS !!!* 
*
I don't blame Chis one bit for not engaging with you - I am SURE* Chris has better things to do with his time then to get in a pissing match with you - just to try to prove who is the better man

IMO - his being smart enough to not engage in such foolish games - in & of it's self prove him to be the better man

So get off your high horse Rick & stop this foolish game

AND for what it is worth Rick - I have enough respect for you that I "may" want to employ your assay services in the future - so I hope you stick around 

I apologize for some of my language in this post but feel there was no other way to say what needed to be said

Kurt


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## goldshark (May 16, 2022)

My take on this, is that many people on this site ask questions about prospecting ores. All of the champions out there , know you can't look at an ore and determine the values by looking at it. maybe someday, when technology gets a little more advanced, we can plug an XRF directly into our brains, and get a proper reading, without having to crush the ore. Getting off point a little, back to the meat. I originally joined this site with an interest in refining only. Lots of other sites for rock hounds. It seems, as others have posted, that this site is commonly more about pissing contests , and social media, than helping people get straight answers about how to refine properly, or fix a mess up in chemistry procedures. Once again, just asking the moderators to screen a little more of the posts, and decide what really is important. Please keep more in the theme of refining. It makes it easier to research an answer to a problem, rather than searching through a C.F. of posts not relevant to refining. It detracts from your site. Social media BS people should hook up on Facebook.


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## goldshark (May 17, 2022)

Just had a brilliant idea. Lets let people post pictures of their metallic alloys. Then we can have a $ 5-10 pool to guess which one has gold or silver, or whatever.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

My apologies for taking so very long on this, I have been swamped and then couldn't find the original photos on my computer. But I have found them now and here is the story that goes with each.
No. 1 is waste from a copper mine, it is a depleted gossan (oxidized sulfides). Tens of thousands of tons of this stuff were thrown out on the dump of a small copper mine worked commercially in the late 1960s. Decades later testing by geologists familiar with the deposit, showed that the depleted gossan waste held no copper, but did hold an average of about 2 grams of gold per ton, making it low grade gold ore. So yes, No. 1 is gold ore, but it was tossed on the dump as waste.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

Sample No. 2 - This is the most prolific source of gold on Earth. It is Witwatersrand ore from South Africa. Visually, it looks like thousands of other conglomerate deposits all over the world. But certain layers in the conglomerate of South Africa have quite a bit of gold and for nearly a century, South Africa was the world's largest gold producer. The layers rich in gold are very extensive and extend for miles. But there are many rocks that look exactly like this which do not have gold.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

The light colored metallic mineral on this rock is Calaverite, a rich telluride of gold and silver. It is from the Cripple Creek district of Colorado, one of the most productive gold districts in the US. Calaverite is easily mistaken for other minerals like Arsenopyrite, that have very little gold in them.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

No. 4 is a chunk of vein quartz from California which has no gold.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

No. 5 is a sample of high grade gold ore from Goldfield, Nevada, a mining district famous for its rich gold ores.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

The No. 6 rock is from the second most productive gold district on earth, the Carlin trend in Nevada. Miners swarmed all over Nevada in the late 1800s, and made many discoveries, but they never found this stuff. Some is quite high in grade, but much is lower grade as well. The old timers never found it because it does not look like ore, and if you crush it, the gold is so tiny you canot see it visually. It can be seen with a powerful microscope and it comes out in a fire assay with no problems. The Carlin trend was discovered in the late 1960s by some geologists looking specifically for this type of ore as smaller amounts had been found elsewhere in Nevada beginning in the 1930s.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

No. 7 is molybdenum ore from Nevada. Its nice and sparkly with moly sulfides and looks good, but has no gold or silver.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

No. 8 is quartz vein rock with a big clot of pyrite, but it has no gold. Its from California.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

No. 9 is a chunk of barren rhyolite from eastern California. No gold here.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

No. 10 is a chunk of copper ore from Nevada. The sulfide mineral here is tetrahedrite, a sulfide of copper and antimony. No gold or silver.


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## BlackLabel (Jun 19, 2022)

Hi Chris,

Many thanks for your answers!
I had two hits only (1+6).

I‘d love to do such a quiz again!

Best regards from Germany!


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## orvi (Jun 19, 2022)

Reno Chris said:


> No. 7 is molybdenum ore from Nevada. Its nice and sparkly with moly sulfides and looks good, but has no gold or silver.


This is very nice example of the point we had. Some sorts of hematite look completely analogous to this. Also pyrite, I have seen similarly structured antimony/tetrahedrite ore (very strange)... Some had gold, some trace gold, some no gold, some had silver, some were completely PM free.

With knowledge of local geology and known location of sample, it may well be possible to identify the types of minerals in it - but just with optical similarity. If you are mining malachite, this obviously isn´t very problematic. But if you are searching for invisible gold in porphyry/Carlin type deposit, or even for gold locked in sulfides/arsenopyrite etc, you must be very well prepared and experienced. Cannot say it from scratch, with certainty. Espetially with somebody´s money at stake.

We had multiple times samples of tetrahedrite from one location - all looked the same, solid microcrystalline stuff, shiny... Nothing to distinguish between them, all veins were approximately in 100 m radius in the same level of mine... Yet one assayed 10g/t Ag, second 25g/t Ag and third 1,5 % Ag 
Content of the antimony varied from 0 to 3% in them, also arsenic had similar trends.
No means of educated guess could resolve it, aside XRF or proper assay.

Overall, very nice samples, some very significant ones


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## Reno Chris (Jun 19, 2022)

> *No means of educated guess could resolve it, aside XRF or proper assay.*



And that was my original point. Lots of gold ore has been ignored by people - even knowledgeable ones - who have an idea in their heads as to what good quality gold ore looks like. They are right most of the time, but the times they are wrong can be costly. Its important to have that idea of what ore should look like, but its also important to keep an open mind and be willing to think outside the box.


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## gldfever87 (Jun 20, 2022)

Reno Chris said:


> Its so wonderful to have found someone as knowledgeable as you are! Just to confirm your extensive expertise, I have attached 10 pictures of some rock. Can you well me which of these have significant gold? I actually know about all 10, so I know the correct answers from testing and assaying, but I am sure you will get 100% correct! Please let us know your determinations. Just a hint, there is no visible gold in any of them, though some are very rich in gold.


O just recently started processing granite ore of all types, PGMS, Iron ore with gold, Platinum, and iridium ore, which I think maybe it's a meteorite..


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## gldfever87 (Jun 20, 2022)

And silver. Very pure.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 20, 2022)

gldfever87 - Please read my previous posts on this thread.
The whole point of my response to this thread was that you cannot just look at rocks and give an accurate "Eyeball assay".
If photos were all that was necessary, there would be no need for any assay labs, or testing equipment like the XRF.
Yet there are assay labs and testing equipment. This will prove to you that blurry cell phone shots cannot really tell you much of anything.
I get a number of folks everyday who want me to look at their rocks and tell them that they have "Struck it rich". Sorry, I do not offer a photo ID service.
Here is what I suggest:
1) Crush the rocks down to sand size. 2) Carefully pan the sand. 3) If you do get any gold, get an assay test done by a lab to confirm.


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## Reno Chris (Jun 20, 2022)

> *Sample #1. The samples of hematite enriched material similar to this that I have assayer has never been any less than 1/5 of an oz per ton gold.
> #'s 6, 7 & 10 are my other choices for most likely material.
> Sample #7 would be suspect for silver and possibly pgm's.
> #'s 2, 3 & 5 would be secondary choices with expectations of silver being dominant.
> There, I answered your retort. Let's see how I scored.*


OK, Rick I am seeing your Amazing Skill Set did not stand up to the test.
No. 1 is gold ore, but only 2 grams a ton, so less than your "never less than 1/5th of a ton"
6 is gold ore, but 7 and 10 have no gold. 
7 is moly ore, with no silver or PGMs. 
2, 3 and 5 are rich gold ores, all with very little silver. 
I would say that you did not confirm that you could look at ores and just tell if they were good or not.


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## gldfever87 (Jun 24, 2022)

Reno Chris said:


> OK, Rick I am seeing your Amazing Skill Set did not stand up to the test.
> No. 1 is gold ore, but only 2 grams a ton, so less than your "never less than 1/5th of a ton"
> 6 is gold ore, but 7 and 10 have no gold.
> 7 is moly ore, with no silver or PGMs.
> ...


Did not mean to come off as rude. I do know the difference in certain ores and am always learning. Yes I've done acid test fire assay and oxidation.


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## Briancline (Sep 9, 2022)

goldshark said:


> Just had a brilliant idea. Lets let people post pictures of their metallic alloys. Then we can have a $ 5-10 pool to guess which one has gold or silver, or whatever.


Can you help with what this is?


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## BlackLabel (Sep 9, 2022)

Briancline said:


> Can you help with what this is?


I would say calcite on limonite.


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## PeterM (Sep 10, 2022)

No idea what it is? It matters not. Does it contain value? Probably not. Good looking rocks never told me anything. Learn to Fire Assay, is the first step. Wet Chemical analysis is the second step.


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## goldshark (Sep 11, 2022)

At least put a couple of drops of white vinegar or HCL on it to see if it fizzes. Fizzy = Calcite, no fizz, more than likely quartz. If you can't assay it yourself, then farm it to those who can. If it is a single piece of float, put it in the rock garden. If you found a seam of it and interested to see if it has any value, hire a professional exploration geologist. Orrrr, spend the rest of your life hooked on mining, processing, permitting, refining, etc..


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## Soar2c (Sep 11, 2022)

goldshark said:


> At least put a couple of drops of white vinegar or HCL on it to see if it fizzes. Fizzy = Calcite, no fizz, more than likely quartz. If you can't assay it yourself, then farm it to those who can. If it is a single piece of float, put it in the rock garden. If you found a seam of it and interested to see if it has any value, hire a professional exploration geologist. Orrrr, spend the rest of your life hooked on mining, processing, permitting, refining, etc..


Why would you hire a prof exploration geologist, if, a seam was found and curious if it contains value? 

I'm not following why this is what your thoughts are as the only 2 suggestions you mention for "wanting to know if a vein had value". Please explain for those of us who are lost and relatively new to this.


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## goldshark (Sep 12, 2022)

P.S., welcome to the forum. A pretty good, tough crowd though. They tell it like it is.


Soar2c said:


> Why would you hire a prof exploration geologist, if, a seam was found and curious if it contains value?
> 
> I'm not following why this is what your thoughts are as the only 2 suggestions you mention for "wanting to know if a vein had value". Please explain for those of us who are lost and relatively new to this.


If you value your time, you will take my advice. Mining a deposit is a very expensive proposition. You still haven't answered the basic question as to the sample you submitted being either an in place seam, or a single piece of rock laying on the ground that you found. You obviously haven't been on the forum long enough to read some of the comments on rocks submitted via a picture. Please read them. A rock picture can in no shape or form be analyzed by a picture. It requires chemical analysis. No one on here ,with any credibility, will give you an answer, other than "looks like a rock". This is because we mean business when it comes to the subject of refining, being the initial concentration of ores, to the final refinement into purified elements. It is actually offensive to do what you ask, to this forum. Please read a simple book on geology, minerals, assaying, etc.. We cannot solve the worlds problems, if they refuse to help themselves. If you don't help yourself, then pay the guy/gal who can give you the answers to your questions. That is what I mean by hire a professional geologist if you want answers now. You obviously think you may have something of value, or you wouldn't ask about a rock composition on a Gold Refining Forum format. Almost all members on this forum have answered questions about a rock picture, much to their frustration. I think this is the last time I will comment on another "rock" picture. It sucks too much energy out of a forum designed by professionals for beginning to advanced refining, not geology 101. You may be lost, but to find yourself, YOU must learn to help yourself, become the sponge of knowledge by reading and experimenting about the subject. When you have a question about a certain procedure, feel free to ask here, but please read the many valuable posts on the various threads that abound on this forum, to see if it has already been discussed. It probably has, as this is a very knowledgable group covering just about every facet of the industry.


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