# Schott Duran



## Anonymous (May 13, 2010)

Does Schott Duran make a good product and is the 20 liter boiling flask reasonably priced, thanks

Schott Duran, 20L Boiling Flask, Round Bottom, Beaded Rim	1	$235.33	$40.53	$275.86
Subtotal	C$248.41
Total Shipping & Handling	C$42.78
GST	C$14.56
Order Total(CAD)	C$305.75


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## lg701 (May 13, 2010)

Spam removed by moderator.


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## Irons (May 13, 2010)

lg701 said:


> Spam removed by moderator



Hi Mark.

You're in the wrong section. Spam isn't welcome.


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## EDI Refining (May 13, 2010)

We use schott duran stuff, its quality if its genuine


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## Anonymous (May 13, 2010)

P3M said:


> We use schott duran stuff, its quality if its genuine



The flask is coming from a Glass Shoppe in Toronto, I think it's the real McCoy.

The one I ordered is similar to the flask in the picture below, also wondering of the jacketed flask would be useful for processing my catalytic material.

Thanks
Best Regards
Gill


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## lg701 (May 13, 2010)

Irons
Not sure if you were referring to me as Mark, my name is Larry. I've been a lurker on this site for just over a year, and this was my first post. Not sure why my post was considered spam when I was recommending another place that members could get supplies.
Did a google search for Schott Duran and turns out that it is another supplier of glassware, same as the post I made, though Gill (?) was just making a statement of what he purchased and wanted feedback.
Years ago, in the early days of AOL, I got booted off a Viet Nam veterans forum for defending the support people that I felt was every bit as important as the ground pounders. Point of this is, if a moderator wants to ban me from this forum for defending myself, so be it. I stand by my recommendation of Legend Inc as a supplier.


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## Anonymous (May 13, 2010)

lg701 said:


> Irons
> Not sure if you were referring to me as Mark, my name is Larry. I've been a lurker on this site for just over a year, and this was my first post. Not sure why my post was considered spam when I was recommending another place that members could get supplies.
> Did a google search for Schott Duran and turns out that it is another supplier of glassware, same as the post I made, though Gill (?) was just making a statement of what he purchased and wanted feedback.
> Years ago, in the early days of AOL, I got booted off a Viet Nam veterans forum for defending the support people that I felt was every bit as important as the ground pounders. Point of this is, if a moderator wants to ban me from this forum for defending myself, so be it. I stand by my recommendation of Legend Inc as a supplier.



Nice to have a price comparison from a competing supplier. The Schott Duran flask is a done deal mailed off the M/O this morning regardless of cost the flask is much needed and time is of the essence. However I'm still looking to purchase a jacketed flask similar to the one in the picture in my previous post.

I thought that it would only be considered spam if an employee or other interested party from a company made a posting trying to sell their goods. 

I remember a recent post on an XRF unit where the buyer got screwed and another poster came in with an offer to sell and this was not considered spam, it's been a long drawn out winter and some of us are a bit testy trying to shake of the remains of cabin fever.

Best Regards
Gill


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## Anonymous (May 13, 2010)

Does anyone have a good used 22,000 ml jacketed flask for sale, preferably with a bottom drain. thanks

Best Regards
Gill


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## Lou (May 14, 2010)

Gil,

Schott Duran is high quality German glass. I have several such 20L filtering flasks, and several of their reaction vessels and kettles. They are every bit as good as anything Corning Pyrex makes (or Ace, Chemglass, Labglass, or Kontes).

Anyway, you're in the market for a 22L? I may have one to spare, if you can deal with it being a jacketed, reactor head unit.


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## rusty (Nov 15, 2010)

Not Schott Duran but good enough to process cats in.


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## 4metals (Nov 15, 2010)

The cost of the heating mantle may set you back a bit more than that. Heating a round bottomed flask requires a special mantle to fit the flask. 

Were those flasks with a beaded neck or a tooled neck? Or are they glassblowers blanks? If they are blanks and you fuse the neck to accommodate any changes you need made, make sure you anneal the glass afterward or it will shatter.


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## rusty (Nov 15, 2010)

...


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## 4metals (Nov 15, 2010)

Years ago when I first started refining, electric mantles were expensive and I was poor, I made a steel box 2 feet square and 8 inches deep and filled it with beach sand. The box with sand was mounted on top of a single propane burner. 

It was easy to form a depression that the flask sat in securely and with plenty of contact area for heat exchange. 

I used that box, actually 4 of them, for years without problems.


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## rusty (Nov 15, 2010)

...


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## jimdoc (Nov 15, 2010)

Is there any place that might sell play sand for kids sandboxes?
They have it at Home Depot and Lowes here.


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## darshevo (Nov 15, 2010)

If you ever find yourself in BC let me know. Silica is easy to come by here in Spokane (infact its mined not far from here at a place called Lane Mt.) I could meet you at the border and fix you up with however much you wanted, be a good excuse to take the family on a short road trip (not to mention best prospecting areas in the state are all north so any excuse to go north is a good one )

-Lance


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## 4metals (Nov 15, 2010)

Last time I ordered Glas Col 20 liter mantles, spun aluminum housing flat bottom they were $768 each and you need a rheostat to control the heat for $163. These are prices from September but I doubt you'll be running out for one at that price.


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## rusty (Nov 15, 2010)

Being hungry once in awhile keeps a man thinking.


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## Oz (Nov 16, 2010)

Ok, I do not understand what is wrong with crushed glass. Even if it was big chunks, last I checked Gill had a ball mill.


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 16, 2010)

4metals said:


> Years ago when I first started refining, electric mantles were expensive and I was poor, I made a steel box 2 feet square and 8 inches deep and filled it with beach sand. The box with sand was mounted on top of a single propane burner.
> 
> It was easy to form a depression that the flask sat in securely and with plenty of contact area for heat exchange.
> 
> I used that box, actually 4 of them, for years without problems.



Did you ever have a glass flask crack during refining?. How did you handle it?. This was always my deterrent on using AR or recommending its use to others at the beginning of my "career". I learned to avoid glass or to contain it within a non breakable vessel. Saw several second-hand disasters that I was called in to "mop up". Stress, pain, and metal losses were the norm in these cases. Once I didn't even get paid. That's when I started with "retainers" before I even opened my mouth. What an "industry"...


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## 4metals (Nov 16, 2010)

Only once did I have a flask break and it was while it was in a sand heating mantle. One of the workers just dumped the metal into a flask and didn't realize he cracked the bottom. He continued to add the acids and walk away without knowing what he had done. (He was of the original Sony Walkman era, music blasting all day, could barely communicate with him.) 

Anyway the steel of the sand mantle frame held the liquids and there were no liquids spilled to the floor. The aqua regia that did mix in with the sand was dried, crushed sifted and shipped with the sweeps. The metal boxes were made of 3/16 steel so they had some thickness to be eaten through before a spill leaked out.


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## skippy (Nov 16, 2010)

You could make your own mantle Gill. I would take the flask, put it upside down, wrap some oily tissue paper about the flask for easy release, then I would wrap the flask in fibreglass cloth soaked in furnace cement to make a hemisphere shell. Then wrap the hemishere with some sort of resistance heating wire. If you limited the wattage and limited the wattage load per surface area of wire you could probably even use stainless steel wire. Then pot this shell into some homemade refractory and you would have a heating mantle for a fraction of the new price.

If you kept the watts low enough you could control it with a light dimmer, at the expense of slow heating times. 
Or you could buy a cheap PID controller off ebay. They are pretty easy to set up and use.

A hot water bath might be a quick and dirty solution. Take a sawed off barrel, put a short section of large diamter pipe at the bottom in the center of the barrel to support the bottom of the flask. 
Add water, a hot water heater element, an appropriate infinite switch and you could scrounge up a heating system for nearly nothing.


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## rusty (Nov 16, 2010)

Hokes stock pot.


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## rusty (Nov 16, 2010)

Thats a damn good idea,


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 17, 2010)

skippy said:


> A hot water bath might be a quick and dirty solution. Take a sawed off barrel, put a short section of large diamter pipe at the bottom in the center of the barrel to support the bottom of the flask.
> Add water, a hot water heater element, an appropriate infinite switch and you could scrounge up a heating system for nearly nothing.



Change "hot water" for "hot oil" and we have a winner. The heating element is simpler too, because mineral baby oil is not an electrical conductor but conducts heat fairly well. Automotive motor oil is good too for fairly high temperatures. 8) 

Put it all *inside* a PVC or fiberglass container or a steel one that has been lined (best choice)!.


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 17, 2010)

4metals said:


> Only once did I have a flask break and it was while it was in a sand heating mantle. One of the workers just dumped the metal into a flask and didn't realize he cracked the bottom. He continued to add the acids and walk away without knowing what he had done. (He was of the original Sony Walkman era, music blasting all day, could barely communicate with him.)
> 
> Anyway the steel of the sand mantle frame held the liquids and there were no liquids spilled to the floor. The aqua regia that did mix in with the sand was dried, crushed sifted and shipped with the sweeps. The metal boxes were made of 3/16 steel so they had some thickness to be eaten through before a spill leaked out.



Glad you didn't get hurt badly. Probably the acids leaked before dissolving much metal.


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## rusty (Nov 17, 2010)

HAuCl4 said:


> skippy said:
> 
> 
> > A hot water bath might be a quick and dirty solution. Take a sawed off barrel, put a short section of large diamter pipe at the bottom in the center of the barrel to support the bottom of the flask.
> ...



This was mu original thought to use the waste oil boiler to heat vegetable oil aka Canola, I purchased a brazed liquid to liquid heat exchanger to heat a coil in the shop that would have had antifreeze on the shop circuit and never used it so its waiting for a job like this one.

A guy could set up a series of containers using a zone controller could control the heat on each container. 

How about it Frank whats your opinion on hot vegetable oil being circulated through a Grundfoss pump or should a guy stick with water on this project.


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 17, 2010)

If you pre-heat the acids *before* adding to the metal reactor, you really only need something to *maintain* it hot. I would not use any rocket science for this. Sometimes good insulation and the heat generated by the reaction is enough. Probably not for pure Platinum digestion, etc. but certainly enough for silver and gold, and palladium. KISS. 8)


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## rusty (Nov 17, 2010)

HAuCl4 said:


> If you pre-heat the acids *before* adding to the metal reactor, you really only need something to *maintain* it hot. I would not use any rocket science for this. Sometimes good insulation and the heat generated by the reaction is enough. Probably not for pure Platinum digestion, etc. but certainly enough for silver and gold, and palladium. KISS. 8)



My object is to process cats exclusively.


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 17, 2010)

A 4-5 inches deep motor oil bath at 200 C or less should be enough for any application. Probably a lot less temperature if AR processing. 200 C would even heat concentrated sulfuric for very quick silver dissolution. 200 C is nothing for motor oil and good glass. 8) 

Careful with the skin!.


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 17, 2010)

In the old days, large (3 to 7.5 gallon - 5 gal. was most common), thick (about 1/4"), Pyrex battery jars were commonly used for dissolving. They were heavy, cumbersome, and expensive. Some had depressions near the top which acted as handles but they were still awkward to work with. The thickness of the bottom of these was very uneven and they could easily break when applying heat. Over the years, I have seen at least 50 of those things break. They weren't supposed to be heated, but everyone did. One place I worked had 8' x 2' x about 1" thick titanium steam tables in the hoods for heating. Open top boxes, about 8" high, made of thick (about 1/4") sheet lead were placed on the steam tables and the jars were placed in them. In case of breakage, the hot AR would go into the lead box, where not much attack occurred. Some people used flasks and mantles but, since a variety of things were being dissolved, most people preferred the open top. I still do. If I were doing karat gold exclusively (which I have never done), I would think differently.

Another place I worked used a couple of 6' long restaurant grills for heating. They have several gas burners under them. These are great because you can only use 1 or 2 burners and have a wide temperature range, from warm on one end to hot on the other end. They still used those damned battery jars. To keep from banging them around on the grill and to better distribute the heat, they covered the grills with a thick (about 1/8" to 3/16") asbestos cloth. Still, they got some broken jars. Tiring of this, they had a glass blower make a bunch of 3 gallon Pyrex jars. They were a little thinner and much cheaper than the battery jars and the bottom thickness was very uniform. They were excellent and I don't ever remember one of them breaking, at least because of the heat being applied.

Since I prefer open top containers, I have used buckets inside of a plastic box water bath. The water was heated with immersion heaters. If the buckets were kept elevated off the bottom of the box and the box were metal, it could be placed on some form of external heat source, such as a restaurant grill. 

An advantage of flasks and mantles in a sealed system is that the fumes aren't diluted with air and a much smaller scrubbing system can be used. Although I haven't tried it, I've conceived of a sealed fume hood made as a glove box with several pairs of gloves. That way, you could work in open top containers without diluting the fumes.


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 17, 2010)

Awesome idea GSP!. Restaurant grill + hot water bath + flasks/buckets/whatever. It doesn't get much simpler!. How is the lid on the buckets glove type of idea done for the scrubber?. I mean what material do you use for the glove thing to put over the bucket.


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 17, 2010)

These are very fancy, high dollar glove boxes. I'm sure an adequate one could be made very cheaply - I'm thinking plywood with a thick plexiglass window. It wouldn't have to be 100% sealed. I don't think a few small leaks would hurt. I'm thinking a hinged window. The scrubber is another story.

http://www.vigor-glovebox.com/?gclid=CJvHpvTtqKUCFUtJ2godGWHCIw
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=3476205


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 17, 2010)

rusty said:


> HAuCl4 said:
> 
> 
> > skippy said:
> ...



The vegitable oil or the water will work with little problem. I try to stay away from oil because of the mess but even if you use water I would recomend some ant freeze in it so either one is a toss up. The oil will hold the temperatur better for long continuous use. The water will heat up faster for small jobs.


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 18, 2010)

goldsilverpro said:


> These are very fancy, high dollar glove boxes. I'm sure an adequate one could be made very cheaply - I'm thinking plywood with a thick plexiglass window. It wouldn't have to be 100% sealed. I don't think a few small leaks would hurt. I'm thinking a hinged window. The scrubber is another story.
> 
> http://www.vigor-glovebox.com/?gclid=CJvHpvTtqKUCFUtJ2godGWHCIw
> http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=3476205



Awesome. Thanks!. 8)


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 18, 2010)

On top of GSP's restaurant grill. No sauna bath needed. :shock: 8) :lol:

Small hole in the epoxy seal to prevent pressure buildup (not shown).


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## rusty (Nov 18, 2010)

HAuCl4 said:


> On top of GSP's restaurant grill. No sauna bath needed. :shock: 8) :lol:
> 
> Small hole in the epoxy seal to prevent pressure buildup (not shown).



Genius at work, can I patent that idea. Whatever happened to KISS, how do you keep the un-cured epoxy in place while it's setting up.

I think your idea is a beaker breaker for sure, no allowances for the expansion of the glass as it heats up against the epoxy bead. if the epoxy has a different expansion rate then your going to be prone to oil leaks.

You invention when submerged for washing would pull in water as the wash water cools drawing in water through the vent hole soon filling the void you have allowed for the expansion of the oil.

You could dissemble one of those oil filled space heaters for the oil that is designed for use in a hermetically sealed unit if you could overcome the differences in expansion of your glass beaker to the epoxy seal.

Better yet buy a jacketed flask.


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 18, 2010)

Wow. Bad vibes today everywhere!. Use silicon sealant if you don't like epoxy or soft glue!. 8) 

Gonna go and hide somewhere, so that the bad vibes don't affect me!. :lol:


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## Lou (Nov 18, 2010)

I use jacketed reaction vessels and a large recirculating heater/chiller. Will probably make the switch to saturated steam some time soon.

I don't like ANY open vessel for dissolution, especially if it's platinum or rhodium. I'm not a big fan of beakers even though they're quicker for dissolving (more material spread out for attack). Different strokes for different folks though!


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 19, 2010)

Lou said:


> I use jacketed reaction vessels and a large recirculating heater/chiller. Will probably make the switch to saturated steam some time soon.
> 
> I don't like ANY open vessel for dissolution, especially if it's platinum or rhodium. I'm not a big fan of beakers even though they're quicker for dissolving (more material spread out for attack). Different strokes for different folks though!



I wasted a phone call to Pfaudler yesterday to finally convince myself of the truth. They told me that, before buying from them, I would need an export license from the government, as their stuff is "controlled", then I asked what the approximate price would be for a 300 gallon reactor. (That was the smallest size I saw on their site)...she said: "About $100,000". That was the end of the call.

Unless bought second hand at an auction for a song, I will never own a Pfaudler of any size or recommend it to any clients!. Maybe there are other brands for smaller size reactors, but they are probably also very expensive. :shock:

Fiberglass and resin rule!. 8)


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## 4metals (Nov 19, 2010)

They are pricey, but they are the best. In a well engineered application they are workhorses.


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## HAuCl4 (Nov 23, 2010)

I've been wondering for a while how to enamel thick glass or quartz onto a cylindrical steel surface. I have no idea on how to do it. Good enamel in a flat surface is difficult enough. :roll:

Found a little free patent online.


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