# Solder??



## vatintman (Jan 6, 2015)

I see this question has been asked on how to remove solder, I know you use NaOh 

But im wondering do you have to remove all solder before AP solution on fingers Ram, And than when you do pins off of hard drive boards mother boards and cpus pretty much any type of pins?

What happens if you have solder when doing these process. Have read a lot and watched videos on youtube, just gathering techniques from everyone to see what people do best and little tips tricks on making things from products around the house. But moose scrapper said in his AP video that it will mess it up 3 ways till sunday or something.

Jus trying to get some clarification. Sorry if I posted in the wrong section. if needed jus some lye in H20 for about 10 mins little heat?

Thank you Perry


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## Geo (Jan 6, 2015)

I have run clean boards through AP and I have run boards that were untouched with all components attached and the results was always (mostly) the same. Tin uses up more acid to dissolve (by weight) than some other metals needs but other than that, The tin should not hinder the dissolution of the copper substrate. The tin will eventually oxidize and settle as a white powder in your AP solution. You intentionally saturate the solution with oxygen so the tin chloride formed by dissolving the solder wont last long as a chloride. You should remove as much iron from the material as possible first. Also remove any PVC parts you can find. Any plastic that bends before it breaks. This type plastic is susceptible to attack from HCl (hydrogen chloride) and can hydrolyze in AP. Any plastic that breaks before it bends will hold up to the acids.


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## bswartzwelder (Jan 6, 2015)

I have always bee under the impression that you want to get rid of as much solder as possible. Solder will eventually contaminate (maybe not the right word) and cause the acid in your solutions to become weak and ineffective. It is also considered a base metal. At some point in time, you will have to deal with lead and/or tin. 

I do not know whether just plain NaOH in water will take care of that issue for you. It has been my understanding that you need a fairly strong NaOH solution to begin with and then need H2O2 which is used as a catalyst to really get the reaction going. It has been stated on the board that 30% H2O2 is about the minimum strength needed. What you buy at the drug store or Wal Mart is only 3%. Hope this helps.

Eventually, you will have to deal with waste solutions. So that should also be a consideration.


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## Geo (Jan 6, 2015)

Distinctions are important here. AP is a recovery process and not a refining process. Removing base metals (and especially tin) before refining is recommended but recovery is very different. There seems to be an over emphasis on removal of metals before the copper(II) chloride leach. Anything that hinders the CuCl2 from doing it's job should be stressed, like iron and soft plastic. The iron will foul the solution overly quickly and the soft plastic will dissolve making a mess. So much time is lost on mechanical separation that it becomes hard to justify recommending people do it. The tin can be separated from the foils once the foils are loose pretty much by just rinsing them off. The solution is a tool and you can expect it to become worn out and used up. Try to keep recovery and refining separated and you will understand what I am trying to say.


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## Pantherlikher (Jan 6, 2015)

Correct Geo... Recovery is nothing like refining.

The gray area in most minds is tin and gold "in solution" are bad.
Gold does Not go into solution in the AP process therefore it is not a problem.

I soak ram and other lightly populated boards in HCL just for tin. I have let it dry to crystals. Currently there is barely any in a coffee pot so not a concern, for now. 
I will be doing this just to prolong the life of the AP and have tin and anything lower already gone for the most part.
Separation of base metals from the good stuff is what's important.

B.S.
Gotta love the frigid winter. Can't do anything fun now...


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## vatintman (Jan 6, 2015)

Thank You Geo and Panther.

I have watched your videos also Geo. They are very good, Shakey camera not so much lol but still great videos. Thank you for answering this for me. I have been collecting for over a year before running any recovery yet. 

How can you recover the copper that is in the AP, just something stainless steel like a knife or something like Moose said in his video on AP. 

2nd you were going to do a video on copper recovery from Ram but you never did that video? did you mill them or something? Thank you for all the advice guys. I have a Chemistry background but am still doing tons or research to feel safe as possible before doing recovery and refining.

Perry


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## Geo (Jan 6, 2015)

The copper can be recovered after the solution is no longer usable as an etchant by cementing the copper on just plain steel. No need to use stainless steel and considering the price of scrap SS, it would be quite a waste. 
I still have the stripped boards and have been studying on incineration and smelting. It has been done by at least a few on the forum but it's not something that most like to talk about because each state has regulation against incineration of toxic materials in ones back yard. There are several good, small, commercial incinerators that are rated for PCB's. I am collecting materials to build one for myself and try my hand at smelting. I can sell the cemented copper to a local scrapyard for red brass but I would much rather sell the copper for copper ingots. There is a gap in the market here. If I can prove to the right people that I can make pure copper from electronic waste, I should have enough backers to start a commercial copper refinery. No scrap yard within 75 miles of here buys printed circuit boards. After doing it myself, I can crunch some numbers and see if there's a profit to be made. 

Of coarse, no one needs to know about the precious metal content. Copper content only should get me in the game.


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## johnny309 (Jan 7, 2015)

Sorry...but do not incinerate boards....why...?
Too much no gain(metal) and much to loose (health).....
As for copper in AP ....use an computer power supply the +12 volts....and anode and cathode use the brackets from magnets harddrive.....just add more water to the solution ...because the metal ions so concentrated tend to draw so many amps and make your powersupply go to protection.

Edit:Ag is recovered as a chloride...from solder.....
If you do not intend to oxidase the Cu traces....and only remove the solder.....just HCl....recover AgCl sediment.....then the (should be clear solution)...raise the PH using table salt(NaCl) to about 3-3.5....and then Sn is precipitate.....older solder(Sn-Pb)...put some H2SO4 in the solution (precipitate Pb),filter,then after that go to second step(raise PH)


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## Geo (Jan 7, 2015)

In the U.S. it's a federal crime to illegally dispose of hazardous waste. Electronic waste falls into that category. It is hard to enforce but if you are caught open burning circuit boards, the fines are huge and your are responsible for paying to have a hazmat team come in and clean it up. A few, a handful, a truck load, a train load makes no difference to the E.P.A. It is difficult to enforce like I said and it's something that many do without knowing they are breaking the law. The first offence, unless it's very grievous, is usually just a warning and some literature explaining what you can and can't burn. Here, you can not open burn anything containing plastic or anything that contains benzine's or chloroform and many more chemicals. Paneling contains chloroform and so does some plywood. A lot of building materials contain toxic chemicals. Pressure treated lumber can not be open burned. Railroad ties are a big no-no. Household garbage can not be open burned.


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## Dude4ever (Jan 16, 2015)

Hello again my supernova prospectors  I really think this thread's 9 posts sums up a mindset, wich are something that should be markeded agressively by the experienced scrap-prospectors.
As far as having the darn solder/tin combined with your star-dust; To emphasize the difference between recovering the gold from pins and fingers, from actually refining the gold foils you recovered, was like hiring 2 robot maids and a vaccuum cleaner in my mind, so a joint effort making this differences clear for the newbies that are researching, or even has started processing, may aid greatly to raise more prospectors and refiners 

_The last time I tried recovering and refining, I followed every advice and tutorial on this site to the letter. Then I got a result I couldn't figure out.
Geo saved my batch by commenting on my procedure, when I diluted my aqua regia with my CPU's in it, it turned bright green like candy, and for a moment there the color manipulated my brain to suggest me to taste the darn soup!
(Thank meat and modern environment for common sense)  Point is, Geo's advices will to any degree aid your process, and you should take it from there until something that was not mentioned happens.
But when it does, come back here and consult the mentors, they instinctively knows your next step, and we are fortunate that they have made the choice to be The "people helping people" here _


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