# can some one please tell me what am i doing wrong.



## spawn007 (Jul 2, 2012)

i've seen how to refining gold video through youtube over and over and i thight i would give it try. so i had collecter 4 motherboard and 12 cell phones to start the project. at first, i started 2 motherboards and 6 cell phone boads as i seen in the video. i had made aqua regia by 1:3 ratio of mixture which 1 part nitrate acid and 3 parts hydrochoric acid and let all the gold dissolved in the solution. after 30 minutes or so, there were no more reactions in the solution and i've filtered solution, but unlike in the videos, my solution turn out dark green. i didn't think too much of it and added smb ( sodium metabisulfite ). first soultion were bubbling up like sugar in the soda but no color changes of solution. so i added and added smb to see any changes and ended up adding a lot like over 100g. after a while i seen powers sink in bottem and thought thats the gold, but color of powers were gray at first then when it was dried it turn green. secon try yesterday, same as before solution turn out deep dark green and this time i added small amount of smb and let it set for 12 hours, seen powers in the bottem so collected and washed with distilled water for 5 times. at first powers were gray and around 3rd time of washing powers color changed to dark golden color. i thought that was it and i wasn't sure how that happened since i hadn't done much different as first time. i was so happy for while that was until i added hydrochoric acid to make sure color of power would stay same. when i added hydrochoric acid to powers, it turn almost black and some powers dissolved and what didn't, turn back to gray. it's been just about 5 days i had started this and i am not sure where my gold is and what am i doing wrong. so far, i ended up with 5 gallons of mixed solution and none gold powers. could someone help me recover gold from it and what am i doing wrong..
Thank you guys!

ok make things clear
this is what i had done.
1. mixed aqua regia by 1 part nitate acid and 3 parts of hydrochloric acid 32%.
2. i heated solution med. heat and waited until all gold was dissolved.
3. put the coffee pot into ice bath and cooled solution until it became cold.
4. added 2 spoons of smb waited 12 hours at frist.
4. collected gray powers from solution not adding anyting to solution.
5. added more smb to remaining solution.
6. got more gray powers and washed off with distilled water for 5 times and it turn to golden color.
7. from golden color, it turning back to green.
but when i tested solution, it still has gold. i made stannous chloride by usind 60/40 solder lead and 32% hydrochloric acid.
i really like to learn how to do gold refining it ream means lot to me to learn. i went around 2 weeks just get everything from hydrochloric acid to nitrate acide and smb. here in philippines, it's not easy to find everything like i was in U.S. to find stump out, forget it. they have round up and when i call 15 companies, none had heard of stump out and to get hydrochloric acid, you can only get 4 liters a month. i really do miss states...
guys pls help me.
waiting for anyone to reply....


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## publius (Jul 2, 2012)

Pictures are helpful. So are paragraphs.


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## maynman1751 (Jul 2, 2012)

> what am i doing wrong..



Everything! Forget You-Tube. Most of it's mis-information. If you really want to be successful it takes more than watching a video. You need to research and study the information on this wonderful forum. It takes time and work to properly recover and refine gold. There are no get rich quick schemes. Also the chemicals that you are dealing with can be very deadly if handled improperly. Either commit yourself or forget it!


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## martyn111 (Jul 2, 2012)

The first thing you need to do is forget everything that you 'learnt' on that video you watched.
Refining isn't a case of dump everything into aqua regia and hey presto out pops a gold bar.
The way I see it you need to do at least a two stage process, first is the recovery of any gold on your boards, second is dissolving the gold and precipitating it or refining it.
You have much reading and learning ahead of you so my suggestion is to safely neutralise any waste solutions you have on hand at the moment so that they can be stored until you have aquired the knowledge to deal with them in the future.
Everything you will need to know has been discussed repeatly on the forums, using the search function (top right of your screen) will give you access to the info.
Get yourself a copy of Hoke's book (available as a free download from many members signature lines or the book section) and read it until you understand what it is teaching you.
The guided tour and safety sections of the forum are also a 'must read' before you play with any chemicals again, not only to protect you but those people around you, your loved ones and neighbours and to protect the enviroment.
This may sound negative to the new comer, but your own research will teach you far better than any member handing you a list of instructions as to what to do.

Edited to acknowledge that Maynmann1751 posted his reply while I was typing mine.
Maynmanns comments may appear harsh but the message is correct, you need to apply yourself to learning the processes or forget about getting involved in the science of refining.


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## spawn007 (Jul 2, 2012)

martyn111 said:


> The first thing you need to do is forget everything that you 'learnt' on that video you watched.
> Refining isn't a case of dump everything into aqua regia and hey presto out pops a gold bar.
> The way I see it you need to do at least a two stage process, first is the recovery of any gold on your boards, second is dissolving the gold and precipitating it or refining it.
> You have much reading and learning ahead of you so my suggestion is to safely neutralise any waste solutions you have on hand at the moment so that they can be stored until you have aquired the knowledge to deal with them in the future.
> ...



not at all i am greatful! i am willing to learn and whatever it takes!
as far as being safe, i done my best! not only me but people around me and all the solutions, i still have it in 5 gallon bucket. i didn't dump everything in aqua regia but only pins and cpu as well as cell phone boards. i am not trying to argue but trying to understand and not asking for hand out. all i am asking is help me get to where you guys at. i am sure you guys had help of one form or another right? thats all i am asking...
thank you!


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## martyn111 (Jul 2, 2012)

spawn007 said:


> i didn't dump everything in aqua regia but only pins and cpu as well as cell phone boards. i am not trying to argue but trying to understand and not asking for hand out. all i am asking is help me get to where you guys at. i am sure you guys had help of one form or another right? thats all i am asking...
> thank you!



A couple of pointers for you.
Using the search function type in 'Pins in AP' (acid / peroxide)
This will lead you to the correct way to recover the gold from the pins without dissolving the gold.

Also have a search for the 'sulphuric cell' another method for recovering gold from pins or any gold plated items. Lasersteves website shows a video of the sulphuric cell in action, while you are on his website take a look at his other videos as all of them are very informative.

Sometimes I do come across as very direct, I don't do that to be confrontational and don't mean to offend anyone, so welcome to the forum and a whole new world of learning.


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## samuel-a (Jul 2, 2012)

spawn007

May you share which videos contained these instructions?


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## spawn007 (Jul 2, 2012)

samuel-a said:


> spawn007
> 
> May you share which videos contained these instructions?



hello sam!!
most video i've watced was goldnscrap.com....
i've watched past 2 weeks same video over and over.the only thing i hadn't used was sulfuric acid but then again SMB will﻿ precipitate the gold only, but not without a slight drag down of other metals right? well i haven't seen any gold yet but green damn thing.
i am trying to learn and it's now 1:12 am and i am reading Hokes book to learn more...
vedios of scrap ceramic cpu 1,2,3 and few other videos..


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## spawn007 (Jul 2, 2012)

martyn111 said:


> spawn007 said:
> 
> 
> > i didn't dump everything in aqua regia but only pins and cpu as well as cell phone boards. i am not trying to argue but trying to understand and not asking for hand out. all i am asking is help me get to where you guys at. i am sure you guys had help of one form or another right? thats all i am asking...
> ...


hello again martyn111!
thank you so much!!! i really am so as maynman1751!
you guys told me to look up hokes' book and i am reading it. i am not new to gold and diamon but new to refining. i been dealing with gold and diamons for years but yet never know anything of refining. i am all open and to learn. what it takes, i be there. talk to talk and walk to walk right? thank you so much to let me know i am not alone and i can still get help from people! i am so greatful to you guys! i will study the book and keep let you know what happens.. any other tips you guys can give me, don't let it stop you!
thanks again!!!!!!!!!!


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## martyn111 (Jul 2, 2012)

Once you read Hoke's book and understand it, reading and understanding past posts on the forum will become so much easier simply because we have all been advised to read it and we all tend to use the same 'language' that was used by Hoke.Also any problems that you encounter while you are studying and you simply cannot find the answer, you will be in a better position to explain your difficulty to the forum which helps everyone to supply you with either the answer to the problem or a pointer to where you may be able to study past posts that will explain in clear detail whatever it is that you are struggling with.
Self learning is the approach that is encouraged here, but help is at hand as long as you have shown (by the way you word your questions) that you have put the effort in to try to learn.


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## spawn007 (Jul 2, 2012)

martyn111 said:


> Once you read Hoke's book and understand it, reading and understanding past posts on the forum will become so much easier simply because we have all been advised to read it and we all tend to use the same 'language' that was used by Hoke.Also any problems that you encounter while you are studying and you simply cannot find the answer, you will be in a better position to explain your difficulty to the forum which helps everyone to supply you with either the answer to the problem or a pointer to where you may be able to study past posts that will explain in clear detail whatever it is that you are struggling with.
> Self learning is the approach that is encouraged here, but help is at hand as long as you have shown (by the way you word your questions) that you have put the effort in to try to learn.



thank you so much! i am still reading the book and checking on time to times! yes i do agree that i have to be on same page with you guys on some point. you could say that i am just baby but willing to grow... i may not reply you again this morning! yes it is already 1:50 am and i am still reading. i may fall sleep reading the book. you know what the funny thing is, i don't even know anymore that i am used to acid or just crazy! tonight while i was making tester, the pot busted and i was covered with acid. of course i washed it off right away.. but my point is i am going through most people wouldn't and i am still going forward. i love it really i do. even it gives me headache time to times, i keep findinding myselfe going back and see the golden powers. i am not gold crazy don't give me wrong but i want to see the end. to see and know new skill. keep in touch and don't stop giving me your pointers!
thanks so much!!! i really mean that!


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## samuel-a (Jul 2, 2012)

spawn007 said:


> samuel-a said:
> 
> 
> > spawn007
> ...



I thought that's the case. 

Though, i have to wonder, what led you to conclude that this is the process you should take:


spawn007 said:


> 1. mixed aqua regia by 1 part nitate acid and 3 parts of hydrochloric acid 32%.
> 2. i heated solution med. heat and waited until all gold was dissolved.
> 3. put the coffee pot into ice bath and cooled solution until it became cold.
> 4. added 2 spoons of smb waited 12 hours at frist.
> ...



The thing is, i have never suggested any process of that nature (pre mix AR, processing full boards etc'...) nither in my site or my videos.
So i must wonder, since i know i have never explicitly suggested this, maybe my videos imply that when watched and maybe taken out of context?


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## spawn007 (Jul 2, 2012)

samuel-a said:


> spawn007 said:
> 
> 
> > samuel-a said:
> ...



oh come on sam! your video tells humm how we say jump and jupm... never really show step by steps. yeah maybe for someone who been doing that for long times but you have to think sam, your video can really confuse people.
honestly, i had fallowed everything you said in video.. wait you don't say anything i forgot but in words. anyway i did and your video shows your solutions never becoming dark green and you said that maybe be cus of copper, are you kidding me, you want to put up video, please make it step by steps and let people learn. not jump and jump. taken out of context, hummm... let me see.... yeah cus your video took things out of context and don't explain. like your vedio tells people to go to store then saying well i got this stuff from store... hummm what stuffs? you don't say but we have to know.. look i think you for making me going watching your videos and yeah i am lost but i will get back on my feet and on the road. you are my start and i have some helping hand, i am on my way..... sam, if you are going to teach someone, teach right. if you want to show yourself off, then say hey look what i can do. sorry for saying such but thats how i feel! i thought you were teacher but found myselfe lost then ever until tonight. sam i am not new to gold but new to refinding. anyway, think you!

no you haven't and i din't soak full board. i did it with pins and cpus then cell phone boards. in both solutions came out dark green after aqua regia. what you said on youtoub? "This process is best done with ceramic cpu's only". why you din't said in the videos? most people watch first and read later sam...if i ever open about what i know, i will let people walk on right path not saying what you telling me. i showed and teach one of my friend who want to learn how to see diamon, i showed him hot to see it by step by step. for color and cut to the weight. sam please don't let people get lost but show them right ways.
tomorrow is another day for some to give up and some to go forwars! for me, tomorrow is another day to smell the acid and get burn as well as time to times can't breath. even with damn mask.. if you ever wondering what i do for living, i am vice president of one of construction company in philippines but i am american!

sam,
please don't think me of stupid. to let you know, you got me start this and i am not looking back and want to learn more and go forwards! it's 4:10 am and i am still awake and studying, but i have to crash few hours.... 
just to say that you are my fist teacher who got me started but i must move on and find another teacher who can get me going to the end!


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## samuel-a (Jul 2, 2012)

> oh come on sam! your video tells humm how we say jump and jupm... never really show step by steps. yeah maybe for someone who been doing that for long times but you have to think sam, your video can really confuse people.
> honestly, i had fallowed everything you said in video.. wait you don't say anything i forgot but in words. anyway i did and your video shows your solutions never becoming dark green and you said that maybe be cus of copper, are you kidding me, you want to put up video, please make it step by steps and let people learn. not jump and jump. taken out of context, hummm... let me see.... yeah cus your video took things out of context and don't explain. like your vedio tells people to go to store then saying well i got this stuff from store... hummm what stuffs? you don't say but we have to know.. look i think you for making me going watching your videos and yeah i am lost but i will get back on my feet and on the road. you are my start and i have some helping hand, i am on my way..... sam, if you are going to teach someone, teach right. if you want to show yourself off, then say hey look what i can do. sorry for saying such but thats how i feel! i thought you were teacher but found myselfe lost then ever until tonight. sam i am not new to gold but new to refinding. anyway, think you!
> 
> no you haven't and i din't soak full board. i did it with pins and cpus then cell phone boards. in both solutions came out dark green after aqua regia. what you said on youtoub? "This process is best done with ceramic cpu's only". why you din't said in the videos? most people watch first and read later sam...if i ever open about what i know, i will let people walk on right path not saying what you telling me. i showed and teach one of my friend who want to learn how to see diamon, i showed him hot to see it by step by step. for color and cut to the weight. sam please don't let people get lost but show them right ways.
> ...



Well.................. :shock: 

The reason i asked you what i did, was to see if i can improve. My intentions is not to mislead anyone. By the contrary. If it did happened, i can assure you it's not made deliberately and i will try to figure out what i did wrong and how could i fix it.


Now, i really don't mind the trash talk about me, my videos or my website by you or others, but please don't put words in my mouth.
I have never called you stupid or said anything to make you perceived as such.

You will also come to learn that the entitlement attitude doesn't really fly around here...


With that said, i wish you good luck finding a new teacher.


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## spawn007 (Jul 2, 2012)

samuel-a said:


> > oh come on sam! your video tells humm how we say jump and jupm... never really show step by steps. yeah maybe for someone who been doing that for long times but you have to think sam, your video can really confuse people.
> > honestly, i had fallowed everything you said in video.. wait you don't say anything i forgot but in words. anyway i did and your video shows your solutions never becoming dark green and you said that maybe be cus of copper, are you kidding me, you want to put up video, please make it step by steps and let people learn. not jump and jump. taken out of context, hummm... let me see.... yeah cus your video took things out of context and don't explain. like your vedio tells people to go to store then saying well i got this stuff from store... hummm what stuffs? you don't say but we have to know.. look i think you for making me going watching your videos and yeah i am lost but i will get back on my feet and on the road. you are my start and i have some helping hand, i am on my way..... sam, if you are going to teach someone, teach right. if you want to show yourself off, then say hey look what i can do. sorry for saying such but thats how i feel! i thought you were teacher but found myselfe lost then ever until tonight. sam i am not new to gold but new to refinding. anyway, think you!
> >
> > no you haven't and i din't soak full board. i did it with pins and cpus then cell phone boards. in both solutions came out dark green after aqua regia. what you said on youtoub? "This process is best done with ceramic cpu's only". why you din't said in the videos? most people watch first and read later sam...if i ever open about what i know, i will let people walk on right path not saying what you telling me. i showed and teach one of my friend who want to learn how to see diamon, i showed him hot to see it by step by step. for color and cut to the weight. sam please don't let people get lost but show them right ways.
> ...



don't give me wrong sam!
i wasn't so much of trash talking to you and if ever you felt that way of what i said, i am sorry! i still do watch your videos even as we speak. i just hope that theres much more you can explain. at the same times if you do, it won't be too much fun for people to learn i guess no charanges and no more digging around. i just have to learn more and perhaps then i may see your video and say "yeah that was the way". i am glad that people like yourself is round to help others... 
hey even in future, i may ask you questions, and when i do, please help me out ok. don't act like you don't know me ha ha ha...
anyway, thank you and keep doing what you do best!!!!
see and talk to you around!


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## patnor1011 (Jul 2, 2012)

You mixed different types of material. It is recommended not to mix different types and when you will read forum longer you will find appropriate processes for any given type of material.

You did not treated base metals first. You dissolved gold along with couple hundred times more of base metals like Cu, Ni, Fe, Sn, Pb.... 
Every time you will do that and attempt to precipitate gold it will drag down insane amounts of anything along with it.

Go through Guided tour on LazerSteve link and read C.M.Hoke book. That will help you.


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## maynman1751 (Jul 2, 2012)

> The reason i asked you what i did, was to see if i can improve. My intentions is not to mislead anyone. By the contrary. If it did happened, i can assure you it's not made deliberately and i will try to figure out what i did wrong and how could i fix it.



Sam, I've watched your videos and understood them perfectly, but I have a working knowledge of processing. I suppose that it's possible for an untrained person to misread what you show. On the other hand, I don't think that someone without any previous experience in this field should attempt 'playing around' with dangerous chemicals. You're doing a great job with your videos and I would encourage you to continue. I quite sure that many people have benefited from your work and it is greatly appreciated. John.

P.S. Maybe you should put a warning that these processes should not be attempted by inexperienced individuals and could be hazardous to the untrained person.


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## maynman1751 (Jul 2, 2012)

> Maynmans comments may appear harsh but the message is correct, you need to apply yourself to learning the processes or forget about getting involved in the science of refining.



Spawn, I didn't mean it to be harsh. It's just that unless you intend on giving this hobby your all, you will not succeed. You have been given some expert advice and I see that you are willing to learn. That's what we want to see and hear. Keep up your reading and studying and you'll be just fine. We all started the same way with no knowledge of refining. If you stumble, someone here will be there to help you as long as you show your willingness to learn and understand and are able to express yourself in an intelligent manner. Good Luck and welcome to the world of refining!


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## lazersteve (Jul 2, 2012)

Sam,

I found early on when making videos that there will always be a few who for whatever reason don't understand the processes the way you intended. After getting consumer feedback on several of my videos via email questions, I soon realized that you have to spell everything out in vivid detail (filtering, colors, amounts, etc.) or a portion of your audience will try to skip steps and/or jam two steps into one. This is why in my videos I pay so much attention to detailing every little process. It's almost like some of the audience thinks the reaction only takes as long as what they see on the video.

I have to admit it's a fine line between being too granular and being too vague. I've had numerous people ask me about tiny details in my videos that I never even paid attention to when making the video. When making a DVD it's even harder as you have a finite disc size in which to fit everything you want to convey. One such example is in my Acid Peroxide video when I place a piece of sheet steel into the spent AP solution to cement out the copper. The shot only lasted a few seconds and was mentioned in passing, but I've gotten hundreds of emails on the fleeting scene.

For this reason I think it's best to provide a combination of written as well as video instructions.

Steve


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## spawn007 (Jul 3, 2012)

patnor1011 said:


> You mixed different types of material. It is recommended not to mix different types and when you will read forum longer you will find appropriate processes for any given type of material.
> 
> You did not treated base metals first. You dissolved gold along with couple hundred times more of base metals like Cu, Ni, Fe, Sn, Pb....
> Every time you will do that and attempt to precipitate gold it will drag down insane amounts of anything along with it.
> ...



good afternoon patnor!
should i had said good evening!
yeeah you are right and now i do understand some of the ways. i been reading C.M.Hoke book over night and it really did opened up my eyes. i didn't know how important to treated base metals first since i heard smb will precipitate the gold only. so there goes my first mistake..... many mistakes to recover and i am sure in the end, i will get there see the gold and feel the joy.
thank you so much!


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## spawn007 (Jul 3, 2012)

maynman1751 said:


> > Maynmans comments may appear harsh but the message is correct, you need to apply yourself to learning the processes or forget about getting involved in the science of refining.
> 
> 
> 
> Spawn, I didn't mean it to be harsh. It's just that unless you intend on giving this hobby your all, you will not succeed. You have been given some expert advice and I see that you are willing to learn. That's what we want to see and hear. Keep up your reading and studying and you'll be just fine. We all started the same way with no knowledge of refining. If you stumble, someone here will be there to help you as long as you show your willingness to learn and understand and are able to express yourself in an intelligent manner. Good Luck and welcome to the world of refining!



hello maynman!
thank you i really am and i've already learn few of my mistakes. and the best thing that has happened was finding you guys as well as you guys had pointed out where i can find some answers and to learn! yeah i only had 3 hours sleep and went back to reading the book. even while i was in school, i hadn't study this hard ha ha ha... 
anyway, i am so greatful to all you guys and please keep in touch!


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## spawn007 (Jul 3, 2012)

maynman1751 said:


> > Maynmans comments may appear harsh but the message is correct, you need to apply yourself to learning the processes or forget about getting involved in the science of refining.
> 
> 
> 
> Spawn, I didn't mean it to be harsh. It's just that unless you intend on giving this hobby your all, you will not succeed. You have been given some expert advice and I see that you are willing to learn. That's what we want to see and hear. Keep up your reading and studying and you'll be just fine. We all started the same way with no knowledge of refining. If you stumble, someone here will be there to help you as long as you show your willingness to learn and understand and are able to express yourself in an intelligent manner. Good Luck and welcome to the world of refining!



hello maynman1751!
well today was another day to give it try and study. i had ran out of gold pins and cpus, but manage to find 2g of gold fingers and pins. i've read through the book and i thought give a test with what i have to see if i am doing it right. so far, i did what i read in the book but little more. 
1. one part of water to 4 parts of nitrate acid soaked in for 30 minutes since gold pins weren't much it didn't take long. but instead of 2 times, i did it 3 times to make sure.
2. washed with hot water 2 times to clean the gold.
3. i thought making aqua regia was 1:3 ratio but in the book it said 1:4 ratio so, i thought i would try what i read. after 5 to 10 minutes, i got golen green solution unlike before i been getting dark green solution.
here is the picture of it.
now the part i have to add little sulphuric acid right? i am little confued on that part but i will going to try. i know whats for but i will find the way. also in the book, he said use the green copper to precipitated gold, but isn't the same using smb? anyway, so far i am on right track and feeling much better. 
thanks to you guys!!!!


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## maynman1751 (Jul 3, 2012)

You have to make sure your solution is free of nitric before dropping the gold. There are a couple ways to do that. Read Hokes and she will tell you how. After that filter and use your SMB.
Yes, a couple drops of sulfuric will eliminate any lead.


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## goldenchild (Jul 3, 2012)

lazersteve said:


> I found early on when making videos that there will always be a few who for whatever reason don't understand the processes the way you intended. After getting consumer feedback on several of my videos via email questions, I soon realized that you have to spell everything out in vivid detail (filtering, colors, amounts, etc.) or a portion of your audience will try to skip steps and/or jam two steps into one. This is why in my videos I pay so much attention to detailing every little process. It's almost like some of the audience thinks the reaction only takes as long as what they see on the video.
> 
> I have to admit it's a fine line between being too granular and being too vague. I've had numerous people ask me about tiny details in my videos that I never even paid attention to when making the video. When making a DVD it's even harder as you have a finite disc size in which to fit everything you want to convey. One such example is in my Acid Peroxide video when I place a piece of sheet steel into the spent AP solution to cement out the copper. The shot only lasted a few seconds and was mentioned in passing, but I've gotten hundreds of emails on the fleeting scene.



I feel your guys’ pain. On my youtube videos I had to put disclaimers that the videos are for entertainment purposes only and are not step by step guides. At first the disclaimers were simply in the video's description but I had to resort to putting a message in the video itself to read the description. Even still I get comments and PMs everyday asking for step by step instructions and how to fix their messes! They just see the video and try it which is crazy to me since most of my videos are "hey look at what I can do" videos. I guess we're making this stuff look too easy.


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## JHardtyme (Jul 4, 2012)

Hello everyone -i am fairly new to gold refining forum - i have been attempting to recover gold from my cons for about six months now with continued falure. I started off with the usual ar nitric acid and muratic acid(proper ratio) went with the urea method (failed) then precipitate with smb. Couldnt get anything to happen without adding extreme amounts of sodium carbonate (horrible looking mud) dried and melted - and its glass. After many failed attempts went to hokes method of evaporation (sometimes boiling for 12 hours) tried precipitation with smb and nothing would happen. This is after sulfric acid dilution and filtering - had the white precipitant before filtering - nothing without sodium carbonate -dried, melted and the black glass no shining gold. All the while studying hokes book as well as amens book. After visiting steves site i decieded to try the clorox muratic method - i couldnt get anything to precipitate with smb or stumpout. However i got mud by using lye however after hcl boil,water boil, and amonia boil i dried it and melted just turns to black glass. Can anyo!ne help other than to say read hokes again .i have pictures but cant upload - the solution is a clear bright yellow after diluting and the mud is brown looks like a sponge upon precipitating however all processes lead to black glass.


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## jimdoc (Jul 4, 2012)

JHardtyme said:


> Hello everyone -i am fairly new to gold refining forum - i have been attempting to recover gold from my cons for about six months now with continued falure. I started off with the usual ar nitric acid and muratic acid(proper ratio) went with the urea method (failed) then precipitate with smb. Couldnt get anything to happen without adding extreme amounts of sodium carbonate (horrible looking mud) dried and melted - and its glass. After many failed attempts went to hokes method of evaporation (sometimes boiling for 12 hours) tried precipitation with smb and nothing would happen. This is after sulfric acid dilution and filtering - had the white precipitant before filtering - nothing without sodium carbonate -dried, melted and the black glass no shining gold. All the while studying hokes book as well as amens book. After visiting steves site i decieded to try the clorox muratic method - i couldnt get anything to precipitate with smb or stumpout. However i got mud by using lye however after hcl boil,water boil, and amonia boil i dried it and melted just turns to black glass. Can anyo!ne help other than to say read hokes again .i have pictures but cant upload - the solution is a clear bright yellow after diluting and the mud is brown looks like a sponge upon precipitating however all processes lead to black glass.



I did not see stannous mentioned?

Jim


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## maynman1751 (Jul 4, 2012)

> I did not see stannous mentioned?
> 
> Jim


Good question! Are you sure that there's any gold in your material?


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## JHardtyme (Jul 4, 2012)

Stannous test is brown


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## JHardtyme (Jul 4, 2012)

Ill be more specific - sometimes depending on batch it was black,brown and one occasion didnt change at all solution waz really yellow and a drop of stannous did nothing stayed yellow then after the test qtip dried like two days it was purple. Got stannous from ebay.


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## JHardtyme (Jul 4, 2012)

For the guy whos post said you cant fix stupid -this forum - i thought was meant to help beginig refiners and recoverers. Yes i fell for shors crap but i have studied endlessly reading for hours daily researching daily - i have ran over 30 batches wasted alot of gold - i am set on working this the right way - i live next to a stream with unreal amounts of gold (the abundance is in the 50 to 100 mesh range however there are larger pieces some of which wont classify through 1/4 inch testing is to at least 18k with test kit (thats small to large pieces) so yup its gold. Upon filtering cons from solution some pieces are left and its silver so the gold is in the solution. Help is what i need if i need to explain more i can as well as pictures. Im using my phone so maybe thats y i cant upload pics - ill work on it. Everyone i have shown my cons to are blown away by how much micro gold is there -are if it wasnt that much maybe it wouldnt b worth it however if i could figure out whats going wrong it could b a life changing experience - i have read alot on this forum and respect those who been there done that thanx


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## jimdoc (Jul 4, 2012)

JHardtyme said:



> For the guy whos post said you cant fix stupid -this forum - i thought was meant to help beginig refiners and recoverers.



That is his signature line, it was not directed at you. It is at the bottom of all his posts.
Jim


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## patnor1011 (Jul 4, 2012)

Many things can turn solution yellow. If it was me I would have assay done in first place. In that way you will know what you will be dealing with and if there is a gold present. Without assay and knowledge what is in a mix it is very hard to even suggest a proper process.


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## jimdoc (Jul 4, 2012)

JHardtyme 

Texting lingo shortcuts are not permitted on this forum, just to let you know. y - why b - be

Jim


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## JHardtyme (Jul 4, 2012)

Maybe this would be easier. Is there anyone who has tried this process (knowing they have gold) that upon melting it turns to black glass?


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## JHardtyme (Jul 4, 2012)

Sorry for text lingo wont happen again. Thank you.


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## JHardtyme (Jul 4, 2012)

Can you suggest an assayer? I live in Montana.


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## patnor1011 (Jul 4, 2012)

I cant be of much help I am in Ireland but somebody will help I am sure about it. My point was that you will know how much you can expect and what else is in your material. In that way you will be able to choose right approach to recover values. From what I know you will have to roast concentrates for some time and then chose appropriate chemicals to deal with what is in there.


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## JHardtyme (Jul 4, 2012)

In my previous i said upon melting it should be upon melting mud dried of course. And the dried mud when melted turns to black glass


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## JHardtyme (Jul 4, 2012)

Even though you cant help i appriciate your time. I totally understand needing to know whats in material - lots of stuff can interfere for sure. Thanks again.


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## patnor1011 (Jul 4, 2012)

Anybody with mining/processing skills can help better and more than me, but what I recall is that raw material/concentrates are being roasted prior any chemical treatment. It is to get rid of some elements and to convert/change another ones.


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## maynman1751 (Jul 4, 2012)

> For the guy whos post said you cant fix stupid -this forum - i thought was meant to help beginig refiners and recoverers.



Hardtyme, This is my sig line and it's not directed at you. Like Patnor, I have no knowledge of dealing with cons. Hopefully someone will see this that knows and be able to help you. Good luck.
Thanks Jimdoc! :mrgreen:


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## Harold_V (Jul 5, 2012)

JHardtyme said:


> Stannous test is brown


You have no gold. Even if you have it before dissolution, it's not reporting in the solids when you're finished. Gold, to my knowledge, does not play games with you. When it is melted, it will form miniscule prills, even if it won't agglomerate to a common mass. If you have examined the resulting black glass and found nothing in the way of prills, it simply isn't there. 

Converting an acid solution to a basic solution generally results in a full precipitation of everything that was in solution. It is for that reason that one does not use a change of pH to recover values. 

You should have, long ago, been testing your solution with stannous chloride. It tells no lies, so long as you do not have excess nitric in solution, and it is not too old. You can determine if it is too old, or not, by testing the stannous chloride with a standard gold solution. 

Until you can test your solution, you're wasting your time. 

You would be VERY well advised to give a finely detailed description of what you're working with, and how you're doing the work. If you are using AR to process materials that are found in nature, there's more than a good chance that you are not recovering gold, even if you're managing to get it dissolved. 

You will come to understand that processing with AR is not a wise thing to do unless you have a firm understanding of the basic principles of refining. As you become more and more familiar with how these processes react, you'll better understand why I'm making this statement. 

Harold


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## JHardtyme (Jul 5, 2012)

Thanks Harold - I wonder if you could explain the prill formation - on a few occasions upon melting I could see a gold sheen left in my crucible.


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## JHardtyme (Jul 5, 2012)

Finally figured out how to upload these photos - one is with cons after au has been filtered away -another is diluted au - and the last is the precipitant


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## donl001 (Jul 5, 2012)

Gentlemen,

Just my 2 cents, but, even basic algebra can be very difficult if you cannot count!

I have read and studied the information offered on this site, as well as, watched the videos provided by the various members. I am very appreciative all all of the information provided. Steve and Sam, your information is exceptional. I do not believe that anything posted by either of you is at all miss-leading. The problem that I do see is that to many individuals want to be experts without committing any effort. Read Hoke, do research, ask questions, but, if you jump into this hobby after watching a single video or reading a few posts, you will fail. Bottom line is that you really need to absorb the basics before you will be able to understand the majority of the information shared.

donl001


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## JHardtyme (Jul 5, 2012)

Uploading from phone sorry the pictures arent in the proper order


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## JHardtyme (Jul 5, 2012)

The pictures I have posted are from the same batch. The process was clorox hcl - I used 4oz clorox and 16oz hcl. Filtered solution from cons - diluted times three - precipitaed with lye and thats whats in the bowl. First hcl boil redissolved precipitant so I reprecipitated with lye. This picture is after second hcl boil (didnt redesolve) and upon filtering solution from precipitant its now showing the white precipitant in flask. This batch was started two days ago.


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## JHardtyme (Jul 5, 2012)

Heres a picture regarding the larger gold that I had previously spoke of as well as some cons (I have depleted my most concentrated material however living next to the source getting the material is easy). Piece after piece tests to 18k with acid test kit.


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## Geo (Jul 5, 2012)

some of that precipitate may be gold but it looks like iron to me.try to digest a small sample in hcl/Cl and test it with stannous.


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## JHardtyme (Jul 5, 2012)

On the stannous test does it need to be diluted first?


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## Palladium (Jul 5, 2012)

Geo said:


> some of that precipitate may be gold but it looks like iron to me.try to digest a small sample in hcl/Cl and test it with stannous.




FeS2 ?


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## JHardtyme (Jul 5, 2012)

Palladium said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > some of that precipitate may be gold but it looks like iron to me.try to digest a small sample in hcl/Cl and test it with stannous.
> ...


 so how would it test to 18k if its pyrite


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## qst42know (Jul 5, 2012)

> so how would it test to 18k if its pyrite



If it were 18k I would expect with a bit of flux it would melt directly and have something to show for it.

It's gold test acid not pyrite test acid. Inappropriate test methods give unreliable results. Get an assay done for reliable results.

Precipitate with lye I would guess iron hydroxide. Look at the second test tube, looks like a match for your white solution, also an iron hydroxide.

http://tinyurl.com/cahwsed


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## Geo (Jul 6, 2012)

if not prepared right, black sands contain iron in a couple different forms. theres sulfates and oxides. sulfates are very resistant to acid attack but oxides (such as magnetite, FeO·Fe2O3) or just plain rust can be reacted on very easily. sulfates can be prepared by roasting to a temperature above the boiling point of sulfur. milling helps on large samples. this yields iron and sulfur dioxide. the sulfur escapes leaving the iron behind, so the iron still has to be dealt with. if you try a chemical leach on black sand concentrates without addressing the carbonaceous material and the iron first, you will have nothing but trouble.


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## Harold_V (Jul 6, 2012)

JHardtyme said:


> Thanks Harold - I wonder if you could explain the prill formation - on a few occasions upon melting I could see a gold sheen left in my crucible.


Prills.

Miniscule balls of metal intermixed with the slag. The sheen you speak of is most likely not gold. 

I looked at your pictures. It is my opinion that there is no gold in solution. Stop wasting your time and test before proceeding. If that yellow solution tests negative, even if you have gold present, it isn't being extracted, although you may have managed to get it to dissolve. It most likely is simply cementing back out, and remains in the solids. 

Test your solution, and pay for an assay. Just because you may see a little gold doesn't mean it is worth pursuing. Trust me on this one. 

Harold


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## JHardtyme (Jul 6, 2012)

Thanks guys lining up an assay.


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## Harold_V (Jul 7, 2012)

JHardtyme said:


> Heres a picture regarding the larger gold that I had previously spoke of as well as some cons (I have depleted my most concentrated material however living next to the source getting the material is easy). Piece after piece tests to 18k with acid test kit.


If what I'm seeing is what you think is gold, while I may be wrong, what it looks like to me is nothing more than a sufide---copper or iron. 

Yes, I could be wrong. 

Harold


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