# Boy could I use a "windfall" like this..



## AuMINIMayhem (May 22, 2007)

*A Bountiful Undersea Find, Sure to Invite Debate *

This article is from the NY Times: 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/19/us/19treasure.html

By TERRY AGUAYO
Published: May 19, 2007
MIAMI, May 18 — Explorers for a shipwreck exploration company based in Tampa said Friday that they had located a treasure estimated to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars in what may be the richest undersea treasure recovery to date.

Deep-ocean explorers for the company, Odyssey Marine Exploration, located more than 500,000 silver coins weighing more than 17 tons, along with hundreds of gold coins and other artifacts, in a Colonial-era shipwreck in an undisclosed location in the Atlantic Ocean, the company said in a statement. 

The retail value of the silver coins ranges from a few hundred dollars to $4,000 each, with the gold coins having a higher value, the company said. 

“All recovered items have been legally imported into the United States and placed in a secure, undisclosed location where they are undergoing conservation and documentation,” according to the statement.

Citing security and legal concerns, Odyssey has not disclosed details about the discovery, including the origin of the coins and the identity or location of the site, dubbed Black Swan, but has said it is “beyond the territorial waters or legal jurisdiction of any country.” Phone calls seeking comment were not returned on Friday.

The 6,000 silver coins that have so far been conserved are in “remarkable condition,” Greg Stemm, the company’s co-founder, said in the statement.

“We are excited by the wide range of dates, origins and varieties of the coins,” Mr. Stemm said, “and we believe that the collecting community will be thrilled when they see the quality and diversity of the collection.” 

The bountiful find is sure to reignite the long-running debate between undersea explorers and archaeologists, who view such treasure hunting as modern-day piracy.

Kevin Crisman, an associate professor in the nautical archaeology program at Texas A&M University, said salvage work on shipwrecks constituted “theft of public history and world history.”

He said the allure of treasure hidden under the sea seemed to blind the public to the ethical implications. “If these guys went and planted a bunch of dynamite around the Sphinx, or tore up the floor of the Acropolis, they’d be in jail in a minute,” Mr. Crisman said.

Anticipating such comments, John Morris, the chief executive of Odyssey, said in a statement: “We have treated this site with kid gloves, and the archaeological work done by our team out there is unsurpassed. We are thoroughly documenting and recording the site, which we believe will have immense historical significance.”

Robert W. Hoge, a curator at the American Numismatic Society in New York, questioned the secrecy surrounding the discovery and said that while it might be perfectly legitimate, the findings would have been better preserved in the hands of archaeologists.

“Whenever these finds are made by treasure hunters, their first thought is to sell instead of preserving,” Mr. Hoge said. “They need to make money because they’re a corporation with enormous expenses. They’re not there to preserve history.”

The find, which was announced on the same day that the publicly traded Odyssey held its annual stockholder meeting, came four years after the company found thousands of coins worth $75 million after excavating the Republic, a steamship lost in 1865 off Savannah, Ga. The company, which had reported losses for 2005 and 2006, saw its stock rise almost 81 percent to $8.32 by the time the market closed on Friday.

This year, Odyssey received permission from the Spanish government to resume a search that had been suspended on the wreck of the Sussex, a British warship that sank in the Mediterranean in 1694 with a cargo of coins that may be worth billions of dollars.

The company has not disclosed the methods or equipment it used in the Black Swan find. 

The largest documented previous find occurred in 1985, when the treasure hunter Mel Fisher found the Nuestra Señora de Atocha, a Spanish galleon that sank off the Florida Keys in 1622. The treasure included thousands of silver coins worth more than $400 million.

John Schwartz and William J. Broad contributed reporting from New York.


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## Jackrabyt (May 22, 2007)

You said it  

Being a goldrefiner and treasure hunter (with a metal detector) this one made me scream. Quite a wonderful find :shock:


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 22, 2007)

One can only dream... *sigh* :roll:


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 22, 2007)

AuMINIMayhem said:


> The largest documented previous find occurred in 1985, when the treasure hunter Mel Fisher found the Nuestra Señora de Atocha, a Spanish galleon that sank off the Florida Keys in 1622. The treasure included thousands of silver coins worth more than $400 million.



and a pirate nonetheless.. I happen to know people who have personally had their sites they struck claims on raided (and listed with the State of Florida, etc.. all the legal stuff taken care of) by Fisher and his cronies when they weren't around.. not sure if you're familiar with treasure hunting of this nature, but that's a BIG no-no.. :evil:


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## Jackrabyt (May 22, 2007)

Yep I have heard that about old Mel. He is very unpopular with the treasure hunters to say the least. Last I heard he was getting his rear end sued for selling fake items. Perhaps there is some justice in the world afterall.


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 22, 2007)

Lord I hope so.. I know a lot of people calling "shenanigans" on him..


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## mike.fortin (May 22, 2007)

Mel Fisher has made two of my friends plus their two grown sons fabulously wealthy since 1987. The 4 of them were not poor to start with, but they are literally swimming in gold and emeralds now. My buddy and his wife purchased a significant fraction by investing in the wreck prior to it's being found. They allowed me to make a photocopy of one of their year's splits as the result of their investment while we were sitting around talking about it one day. Talk about a mind boggling itemization. It is about 12 pages of single spaced typing with all the legal jargon and bookkeeping points and conversion rules. If they get bored with any of the gold or coins or stones or other artifacts, they get to turn it back in for conversion points and apply it to something they'd rather have instead. Some of the higher graded gold coins were among the things my buddy wanted to collect. The wife went nuts over the emeralds. When I last saw them, they had not spoken for any of the huge amounts of silver brought up. Mike.


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 22, 2007)

ok, but _who's_ site did Mel raid to get them all rich on ?..


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## mike.fortin (May 22, 2007)

Mayhem--anyone can accuse anyone of anything. I'm just glad for my buddy, his wife and his 2 sons, okay? No lawsuits have tainted any of their 1/8th share. I'm not here to debate you. Mike.


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## AgAuPtRh (May 22, 2007)

I'm wondering just what kind of condition these silver coins were in when found and how much restoration is needed?

I've pulled a lot of silver off the beaches -- the salt water usually turns silver black and can make some serious pits in the silver as well. Does a heck of job on clad coins. 

Some of what I've seen from Mel Fishers finds were all cemented together.


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 23, 2007)

The one guy I know who is in the same league as Mel, has shown me some coins both before and after cleanup. They clean up rather well, actually, however these old coins lack a lot of detail, I'm not sure if it's because back in the day coins were poured in molds as opposed to being stamped out under intense pressure like modern day coins, or if the salt water really had that much affect on them. Could be a combination of both I would presume. Now he told me a lot of the pitting and stuff came not so much from the brine, (salt water isn't just salt water there's iodine and quite a bit of other abbrasives in it), but a lot came from the various environmental conditions. IE: coins in less turbulent waters didn't spend centuries getting pelted with sand and bits of coral, etc. Also the various corals and barnacles and things that grow down there can sometimes distort the coins or other artifacts as well. Believe it or not, some of the best stuff to hold up that he's found is old Chinese porcelain.. it's amazing how well that stuff holds up.. and it can be worth more than any bullion or coins, depending on it's condition and time period etc.


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## Jackrabyt (May 23, 2007)

Ever since my wife and I started metal detecting it has been a dream of mine to research one of the old treasure tales and attempt to find the long lost loot. 

I have never done any kind of water hunting and have never scuba dived so I would probably go after a land based treasure, like one of the old time outlaw caches or what have you.

Man would that be a good time. Metal detecting by day, tents, campfires and cold brews at night....:SIGH:


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 23, 2007)

Jackrabyt.. you know.. that wouldn't be such a bad idea.. a first annual GFC members' scavenger hunt/vacation trip..  Hell, I'd definately go! What about Rich Hill in AZ?..

http://www.arizonagoldprospectors.com/


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## Jackrabyt (May 23, 2007)

Oh don't tease me AU !  LOL

Man that would be one hell of a wild ride. Just a bunch (or few) metal detecting enthusiasts searching for buried treasure. I have dreamed about this kind of thing for so long I wrote a book on tales of lost or buried treasure (that is my job, not treasure finder but writer 8) )


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 23, 2007)

no teasing... I think it would be really cool.. I'm serious.. if we all put our noodles together, we could have one helluva weekend, get a chance to meet each other one on one, trade ideas, have a couple of cold ones, camp, do some metal detecting and possibly go home with some new commrades, stories, tales of wonder and excitement.. who knows?..

hmmm.. maybe I should put up a poll and see how many people would be intersted.. waddya think?..


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## Jackrabyt (May 23, 2007)

By all means....I know you could count me in for sure.....My wife too...I shall start investigating some potential sites


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 23, 2007)

I'll send you a pm soon.. we'll see what we might be able to come up with.. I've done lot of online group meetings with my MINI Cooper clubs, so I'm familiar with some of the things that need to be taken into account as far as looking for hotels, group rates, places to go, etc.. This can easily become a very daunting task, so let's see if there's any interest first and then, if so, we'll take it from there...  

It would definately be fun though.. so let's make an honest effort to see who would like to be involved..


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## Gold-Digger (May 25, 2007)

Anyone doing this in Colorado??


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 26, 2007)

golddigger, so far no real solid plans, we're just throwing out ideas at the moment .. by all means if you have any suggestions, fire away!


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## jimmy759 (Jun 7, 2007)

one of my other hobbys is audio and on my main forum audiokarma they get together once a year to show off and experiecne differnt stereos setups and music in a fun filled weekend in detroit. it has seven years behind it and gets better every year.

but that forum has some 20,000 members and they still only get aless then a 1000 attending from what i can gather.


but what about just getting to gether on a big pc hunt and do a huge environmentla scavenge of old pc's and what not in a city that has no program and then cash in.

but i would be down for the tresure hunt.


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## jimdoc (Jun 8, 2007)

Here is a link to the M.D. forum I check out;

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?26,539313,539313#msg-539313

I would like to find one of those, yeah right. I couldn't find my weight in
gold unless I accidently dug into Fort Knox.


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## Charlena (Jun 8, 2007)

jimmy759 said:


> but what about just getting to gether on a big pc hunt and do a huge environmentla scavenge of old pc's and what not in a city that has no program and then cash in.
> 
> but i would be down for the tresure hunt.



And I have heard of audiokarma site...just can't remember how I stumbled across it now...vintage audio equipment research probably...I love old stuff...hee hee

ok off too google places with no ecycling now...
It's on! lol


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## jmelson (Jun 21, 2007)

Jackrabyt said:


> Ever since my wife and I started metal detecting it has been a dream of mine to research one of the old treasure tales and attempt to find the long lost loot.


If anyone gets to Kansas City, visit the Steamship Arabia museum. This was basically a Mel Fisher sort of hunt, only under farmland where the Missouri River USED to flow. They used magnetometers to locate the ship's engines and boilers, or at least were pretty confident they'd found it. They got permission to dig, and started digging, and pumping. They didn't find vast riches of gold and silver, but they found TONS of historical goodies, including the bow of the boat, complete with the tree stump that holed it! They have huge cases full of china, liquor bottles, anything and everything that was on the boat.

It is totally awesome.

Jon


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## patnor1011 (Mar 10, 2009)

Eh.... Its happend that I am living in country where archaeologists rule like medieval kings... You cant use metal detector nearly anywhere... The only place is beach in between liw and high tide. And they are eager to prohibit that too. If you will walk with detector on some field you will end up sooner or later with detector being confiscated by police, like some weapon or so... And people will look at you as some sort of drug dealer. But the good thing is that there are not much people with this sort of hobby so you can be lucky sweeping beach and find something interesting. When I went to one beach last year I found one silver ring, handfull of coins and can of unopened beer but i didnt drank it  that can end up in bin with about 2kg of nails, pull tabs and other junk...


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## jimdoc (Feb 1, 2012)

Judge rules against ocean explorers in dispute with Spain over sunken treasure from ship wreck


http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/judge-rules-against-ocean-explorers-in-dispute-with-spain-over-sunken-treasure-from-ship-wreck/2012/02/01/gIQA8b6UhQ_story.html


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