# FAILED! palladium precipitation with sodium carbonate/formic acid PLS HELP



## mythen10 (Aug 19, 2022)

I dissolve some wires wich contain palladium without silver , the wire don't contain copper and are non magnetic.
After I dissolve the wires(the solution become green) I add sodium carbonate (the solution become blue) and after some formic acid and put on fire to get 80⁰ and I add more sodium carbonate and the solution don't change the colour in black and any palladium is not precipitate.But after the solution get 80⁰ and I add more sodium carbonate the solution boil over.
FIRST 3 PHOTO ARE AFTER I TAKE FROM THE FIRE AND I WAIT TO PRECIPITATE the palladium.
Next 5 photo is after boil over and make some orange brown slug becouse the fire it was working ( brown like gold is not copper because the wire don't contain copper).
And last photo is the wires wich I processed and I tested with fire and make bluish film like palladium
WHAT IS THAT ORANGE BROWN SLUG FROM PHOTOS?is possible to be palladium?


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## mythen10 (Aug 19, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> I dissolve some wires wich contain palladium without silver , the wire don't contain copper and are non magnetic.
> After I dissolve the wires(the solution become green) I add sodium carbonate (the solution become blue) and after some formic acid and put on fire to get 80⁰ and I add more sodium carbonate and the solution don't change the colour in black and any palladium is not precipitate.But after the solution get 80⁰ and I add more sodium carbonate the solution boil over.
> FIRST 3 PHOTO ARE AFTER I TAKE FROM THE FIRE AND I WAIT TO PRECIPITATE the palladium.
> Next 5 photo is after boil over and make some orange brown slug becouse the fire it was working ( brown like gold is not copper because the wire don't contain copper).
> ...


I put there 12 grams of palladium wire


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## mythen10 (Aug 19, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> I dissolve some wires wich contain palladium without silver , the wire don't contain copper and are non magnetic.
> After I dissolve the wires(the solution become green) I add sodium carbonate (the solution become blue) and after some formic acid and put on fire to get 80⁰ and I add more sodium carbonate and the solution don't change the colour in black and any palladium is not precipitate.But after the solution get 80⁰ and I add more sodium carbonate the solution boil over.
> FIRST 3 PHOTO ARE AFTER I TAKE FROM THE FIRE AND I WAIT TO PRECIPITATE the palladium.
> Next 5 photo is after boil over and make some orange brown slug becouse the fire it was working ( brown like gold is not copper because the wire don't contain copper).
> ...


is possible that orange brown from the tail of the fork to be palladium? is orange like paladium PLEASE HELP


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 19, 2022)

Take your Stannous and get it readable.
First dilute a tiny amount of the solution with equal amount of water.
If Stannous is still black, do it again and so on until you have a colour to your test.

What I see of the solution hints to Chrome, which makes sense for a resistor wire.

And stop creating new threads in the same topic, keep it in one thread.

It would be wise if you stop doing things until you have control of the situation, now your creating a bigger and bigger mess.

So please stop until we have sorted out the mess.


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## kurtak (Aug 19, 2022)

First of all how do you know the wire is palladium ???

No the orange/brown sludge is not palladium

Did you do a stannous test before adding the sodium/formic - if so what where the results ?

Show use a stannous test of the solution as it is now

Do that stannous test by putting two separate drops of the solution on a piece of filter paper

Then to only one of the two drops of solution add one drop stannous 

I agree with Yaggdrasil it is probably chrome resistor wire & not palladium


Which is why my first question - *how do you know the wire is palladium*

Kurt


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## kurtak (Aug 19, 2022)

& one more note - in the pic of the wire it looks like you put a torch to it (at the bottom of the wad of wire) which then turned black which beside the color of the solution tells me it is chrome resistor wire

if it was palladium wire - after cooling down the wire would look the same as it did before heating it with a touch instead of turning black

Kurt


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 19, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> I put there 12 grams of palladium wire


Have you tried the wire in pure HCl?


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## Shark (Aug 19, 2022)

kurtak said:


> Do that stannous test by putting two separate drops of the solution on a piece of filter paper
> 
> Then to only one of the two drops of solution add one drop stannous


Brilliant! 
Never thought of doing it on a single piece of paper. Sometimes it’s just the little things that help the most.


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## mythen10 (Aug 20, 2022)

kurtak said:


> First of all how do you know the wire is palladium ???
> 
> No the orange/brown sludge is not palladium
> 
> ...


I test with sncl is go black and I test with flame


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## mythen10 (Aug 20, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Have you tried the wire in pure HCl?


is not dissolve


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## mythen10 (Aug 20, 2022)

kurtak said:


> & one more note - in the pic of the wire it looks like you put a torch to it (at the bottom of the wad of wire) which then turned black which beside the color of the solution tells me it is chrome resistor wire
> 
> if it was palladium wire - after cooling down the wire would look the same as it did before heating it with a touch instead of turning black
> 
> Kurt


that black wire is another type is plated with Wolfram and that grey is another type


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## mythen10 (Aug 20, 2022)

kurtak said:


> & one more note - in the pic of the wire it looks like you put a torch to it (at the bottom of the wad of wire) which then turned black which beside the color of the solution tells me it is chrome resistor wire
> 
> if it was palladium wire - after cooling down the wire would look the same as it did before heating it with a touch instead of turning black
> 
> Kurt


the wire is not turn black


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## mythen10 (Aug 20, 2022)

kurtak said:


> & one more note - in the pic of the wire it looks like you put a torch to it (at the bottom of the wad of wire) which then turned black which beside the color of the solution tells me it is chrome resistor wire
> 
> if it was palladium wire - after cooling down the wire would look the same as it did before heating it with a touch instead of turning black
> 
> Kurt


the grey wire is turn blue


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## mythen10 (Aug 20, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Take your Stannous and get it readable.
> First dilute a tiny amount of the solution with equal amount of water.
> If Stannous is still black, do it again and so on until you have a colour to your test.
> 
> ...


the test is black ,now I wake up and I will try to take some sorange brown stuff and dissolve and after to test with sncl


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 20, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> the test is black ,now I wake up and I will try to take some sorange brown stuff and dissolve and after to test with sncl


Yes you said that. Black do not give any information. Do as Kurtak said, but drop the Stannous slightly on the side of the solution drop. When the two drops merge you will most likely get a slower reaction and the colour will be distinguishable.
If it is still black dilute and try again.
Black tell you nothing.

The blue colour after heating is a typical color from Chrome. Just look at any exhaust pipe on a motor bike.


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

kurtak said:


> First of all how do you know the wire is palladium ???
> 
> No the orange/brown sludge is not palladium
> 
> ...


that orange brown sludge is PALLADIUM!
please don't make any post's if you don't know


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Yes you said that. Black do not give any information. Do as Kurtak said, but drop the Stannous slightly on the side of the solution drop. When the two drops merge you will most likely get a slower reaction and the colour will be distinguishable.
> If it is still black dilute and try again.
> Black tell you nothing.
> 
> The blue colour after heating is a typical color from Chrome. Just look at any exhaust pipe on a motor bike.


no that blue colour maybe is typical when you thest your relays hahahaha,
RIGHT NOW I FINISH THAT ARE PALLADIUM WIRES(wIres wich contain palladium) AND THE TEST WITH TORCH(in special when you deal with soviet stuff) IS MORE USEFUL THAN THIS FORUM hahahaha 
WHAT IS HAPPEN HERE? HAHAHAHA 
ALL COMMENTS ARE LYE'S that orange brown sludge is palladium


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

kurtak said:


> First of all how do you know the wire is palladium ???
> 
> No the orange/brown sludge is not palladium
> 
> ...


serious not palladium? hahahaha go refine your alluminium can's


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

HERE IS STINKS AT CHICKEN


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> HERE IS STINKS AT CHICKEN


You really want a vacation from the forum, do you?
Behave and keep your language civil or your out!!!


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

what? is a joke


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

you can make difference from a joke and bad language?


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

chicken? hahahaha


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

I don't use vulagar language


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> You really want a vacation from the forum, do you?
> Behave and keep your language civil or your out!!!


what you don't like the true? is a problem with true? and for your knowledge you can test your alluminium can's and relays with torch and I post again the palladium can be tested with torch and if is make a blueish oxide film this mean contain palladium


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

You are all over the forum shouting some places and making comments out of context some places.
What about proving your claims of that Palladium either by following the advice you are given or produce some external tests.
Edit to add:
The Stannous tests you have showed so far do not tell anything, either wrong or way to concentrated.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> what you don't like the true? is a problem with true? and for your knowledge you can test your alluminium can's and relays with torch and I post again the palladium can be tested with torch and if is make a blueish oxide film this mean contain palladium


I have not made any claims of Aluminum, that I recall at least. 
And blue color from Pd, may be true, or not, I have never seen it, but I have seen hundreds of heated exhaust pipes and they are blue.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> HERE IS STINKS AT CHICKEN


I consider this a vulgar comment and quite unfriendly.
And I can not see how this can be any kind of joke.


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> The blue colour after heating is a typical color from Chrome. Just look at any exhaust pipe on a motor bike.


WHY DID YOU MAKE COMMENTARYS at my post's if you don't know? ,, blue colour is typical for any exhaust pipe,, what is with this commentary?


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> what you don't like the true? is a problem with true? and for your knowledge you can test your alluminium can's and relays with torch and I post again the palladium can be tested with torch and if is make a blueish oxide film this mean contain palladium


Truth has to be proven, nothing becomes true by shouting and acting out.


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I have not made any claims of Aluminum, that I recall at least.
> And blue color from Pd, may be true, or not, I have never seen it, but I have seen hundreds of heated exhaust pipes and they are blue.


in future be more carefully and don't make commentary if you don't know


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> WHY DID YOU MAKE COMMENTARYS at my post's if you don't know? ,, blue colour is typical for any exhaust pipe,, what is with this commentary?


Stop shouting.
And just go outside and look at the exhaust at any motor bike with original exhaust.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> in future be more carefully and don't make commentary if you don't know


Do you really want to be banned????
You should heed your own advice mate.


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

according to the literature the torch test for palladium is very useful ,,Relative to platinum, palladium will form a bluish oxide film when heated in a Bunsen flame and then, unlike base metals, will if heated in a reducing flame revert back to a silver colour. Conversely if, once the oxide film is formed, the temperature is increased to ~1000ºC the oxide again reverts back to pure metal.,,
this is the site Test for palladium | Johnson Matthey Technology Review - technology.matthey.com 
And in Russia they also test palladium with torch are hundreds of movies on YouTube


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Do you really want to be banned????
> You should heed your own advice mate.


what? This is a forum your attributions is to don't induce in error people with stuff about you don't know


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## mythen10 (Oct 14, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Do you really want to be banned????
> You should heed your own advice mate.


you know to read 
according to the literature the torch test for palladium is very useful ,,Relative to platinum, palladium will form a bluish oxide film when heated in a Bunsen flame and then, unlike base metals, will if heated in a reducing flame revert back to a silver colour. Conversely if, once the oxide film is formed, the temperature is increased to ~1000ºC the oxide again reverts back to pure metal.,,
this is the site Test for palladium | Johnson Matthey Technology Review - technology.matthey.com
And in Russia they also test palladium with torch are hundreds of movies on YouTube


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> according to the literature the torch test for palladium is very useful ,,Relative to platinum, palladium will form a bluish oxide film when heated in a Bunsen flame and then, unlike base metals, will if heated in a reducing flame revert back to a silver colour. Conversely if, once the oxide film is formed, the temperature is increased to ~1000ºC the oxide again reverts back to pure metal.,,
> this is the site Test for palladium | Johnson Matthey Technology Review - technology.matthey.com
> And in Russia they also test palladium with torch are hundreds of movies on YouTube


Read what I say not what you think I say.
I did not say the Pd don't form a blue oxide, but anyway it is slightly more complicated if I remember correct.
The discussion started with what it was and one of the things it could be was Chrome wire for heating elements and that is where 
I pointed to the exhausts the first time. 
Have you now made a stannous test that can be interpreted according to advice you are given?


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> what? This is a forum your attributions is to don't induce in error people with stuff about you don't know


I asked you to behave and after that, it has gone down hill.
Since you know it all, you will manage fine without the forum, right?
You need to drop your attitude a few notches if you want to stay here.

Behave now please.


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## kurtak (Oct 14, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> You need to drop your attitude a few notches if you want to stay here.


Hes not gone yet


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

kurtak said:


> Hes not gone yet


I know, he went silent in the end though. Contemplating his next move maybe.
I’m on the end of my leash though.


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## orvi (Oct 14, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> you know to read
> according to the literature the torch test for palladium is very useful ,,Relative to platinum, palladium will form a bluish oxide film when heated in a Bunsen flame and then, unlike base metals, will if heated in a reducing flame revert back to a silver colour. Conversely if, once the oxide film is formed, the temperature is increased to ~1000ºC the oxide again reverts back to pure metal.,,
> this is the site Test for palladium | Johnson Matthey Technology Review - technology.matthey.com
> And in Russia they also test palladium with torch are hundreds of movies on YouTube


Torch testing Pd is doable, but it is very very tiring and un-useful in refining, because you need to drop metallic Pd out and melt it. However, take stannous and you can test the solution directly - much much more useful and straightforward. In addition, if you do have heavily contamined Pd with base metals, silver etc - the test won´t work.

Step down with this attitude, it does not get you far neither in this forum nor in your everyday life.

Back to refining.
How you proven the Pd is present ? Do you have photo of stannous of the original solution of dissolved wire ? By the way - palladium in nitric solution is reddish brown. Copper is straight blue. If these two mix, you usually get very dirty greenish-brown colour. Nickel is greenish-blue. I guarantee you if you had half gram of Pd in 0,5L nitric acid solution, it would be exactly that dirty greenish brown colour. And stannous will get you dark green stain, with heavier concentration nearly translucent.

Be teachable, and get used to the fact there are hundreds and hundreds of people in the world that knows far more than you. Take their advice if they are willing to share it with you  with this, I do not mean myself. But in general 



Stannous of mixed PdPt solution. Notice that deep green colour - that is Pd. Orange is Pt.


Vial 7 is dissolved sample of Pd with lots of copper in solution. Notice that dirty, nearly translucent, greenish-brown colour. All other vials are Pd free - just copper/nickel in them. Greenish tinge in nitric leach can originate from dissolved NO2 together with copper. If you briefly boil that solution, NO2 will evaporate out and solution will stay straight blue.



Samples 10,11,12 and 14 are Pd containing, with various concentration of Pd in comparison to the base metals (Cu or Ni). Sample 14 is most diluted Pd and 12 is most concentrated Pd sample from the photo. Notice that transition from greenish-brown to nearly just reddish-brown.


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## orvi (Oct 14, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> I dissolve some wires wich contain palladium without silver , the wire don't contain copper and are non magnetic.
> After I dissolve the wires(the solution become green) I add sodium carbonate (the solution become blue) and after some formic acid and put on fire to get 80⁰ and I add more sodium carbonate and the solution don't change the colour in black and any palladium is not precipitate.But after the solution get 80⁰ and I add more sodium carbonate the solution boil over.
> FIRST 3 PHOTO ARE AFTER I TAKE FROM THE FIRE AND I WAIT TO PRECIPITATE the palladium.
> Next 5 photo is after boil over and make some orange brown slug becouse the fire it was working ( brown like gold is not copper because the wire don't contain copper).
> ...


This photos of solution does not resemble to me that this contain any PGM in solution. Test it with stannous. And if you does not have it, test the cements you made after re-dissolution in AR or nitric. Above, you have picture of how mid-concentrated Pd in solution will be stained with stannous.


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