# Biomass briquettes for incineration fuel source?



## 924T (Aug 12, 2013)

I just this evening stumbled across the biomass brick/briquette industry, and I think it's rather fascinating.

Has anyone from the forum tried using biomass (either 100% sawdust, or 70/30 sawdust and paper) bricks
or briquettes for incinerating I.C. chips (or pyrolizing, although I'm not sure these would reach a high enough
temperature for that)?

I see where Menard's is selling the blocks now.

Cheers,

Mike


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## g_axelsson (Aug 12, 2013)

If it burns I would guess that it would work. If the temperature is too low then use a bit of forced air and it will raise the temperature.
When I ran my experiments I used an electric hot air gun to boost the fire, 500C air is really effective. :mrgreen: 
I also used it to add air to the incineration vessel, it added oxygen without cooling the scrap down.

Göran


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## Woodworker1997 (Aug 12, 2013)

I make my own from hardwood planer chips and leftover candles. I will usually make them 2'x3'x4”. After the slab cools down and hardens I run it thru the band saw for whatever desired size. They are the best fire starters I have ever used. They burn hotter and longer than anything else on the market.


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## bswartzwelder (Aug 12, 2013)

Goran,

I had to laugh at myself (because of you) this morning. I saw where you said you added air to your incineration vessel. YOU, MY FRIEND, were the one who corrected me about the use (or the non use) of air for pyrolyzing. I thought I had caught you in a mistake, but the mistake was all mine. Air is used for incineration and lack of air is for pyrolyzing. I caught myself this time. Old age is becoming less fun, but your correction of me was spot on and it's something I'm unlikely to forget. However, a lapse once in a while will most likely still be on the menu. Still smiling at my lapse. Thank you.


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## g_axelsson (Aug 12, 2013)

:lol: 

I just wrote a short note about the fuel and added the note about incineration afterwards. It was too short to actually describe what I did (have posted it before).
What I did was a two stage process with two cans, one over the other. First pyrolyzing and forcing the gases down into the fire again, then I removed the outer can and continued with incineration. The smaller inner can was standing in the fire all the time.

I hope I didn't treat you too hard when I corrected you, English isn't my first language and often I'm missing the finer nuances. Once I told Butcher that we were arguing when I only wanted to say that we were discussing giving a lot of facts supporting our point of view. The correct word that I should have used was argumentation.

Göran


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## grance (Aug 13, 2013)

I use 100% saw dust pellets for incerating chips and a 50/50 mix for melting aluminium works ok just takes a while but a friend of mine owns a tree triming and biomass production i guess you could call it a facility so I get mine super cheap.


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## 924T (Aug 13, 2013)

grance,

I'm glad to hear somebody's already using one of the types of fuel I'm considering!

If you don't mind a question----do you normally pyrolize first, then incinerate?

When incinerating, do you have a ratio of pounds of pellets per pound of chips, or do you feed the 
flame based on observing the progress of the process?

I've often wondered what would happen if I just mixed a pound of chips in with 10 pounds of oak pellets,
and just lit it up. The fumes from the chips would be right there in the flames, so I'm theorizing that the
explosion risk would be very close to zero, kind of a 1-shot pyrolysis and incineration.

Cheers,

Mike


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## 924T (Aug 13, 2013)

Woodworker1997,

That's a very cool innovation!

Now if you're pouring your candle wax and planer shavings mix onto a marble slab, that would
be like making a big batch of fudge (that is a pretty big slab you described)!

Cheers,

Mike


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## Woodworker1997 (Aug 13, 2013)

Mike,

Sorry I should have explained better. The wax gets melted in a very large pot on my turkey frier burner. Planer chips from hardwood then get added to the wax. The mixture then gets poured into a 2x3 foot tub and packed in very tightly. Add a piece of plywood over the top then put as much weight on it as you can. It takes a very long time to cool down.

Derek.


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## MysticColby (Aug 13, 2013)

Do you need a high wood:wax ration? like cereal with a little milk vs. milk with some cereal. I've made my own fire starters using candle wax and paper towels (to light kindling), and found that the wax tends to drip off it. it burns, but a lot of wax is lost. I would expect you need mostly wood to soak up the wax so it doesn't drip away?
would sawdust and wax work just as well as wood chips?


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## niteliteone (Aug 13, 2013)

MysticColby said:


> ...would sawdust and wax work just as well as wood chips?



Sawdust and wax is what "Duraflame" logs are made of. From what I remember they were a disappointment when I tried a few years ago.


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## Woodworker1997 (Aug 14, 2013)

MysticColby said:


> Do you need a high wood:wax ration? like cereal with a little milk vs. milk with some cereal. I've made my own fire starters using candle wax and paper towels (to light kindling), and found that the wax tends to drip off it. it burns, but a lot of wax is lost. I would expect you need mostly wood to soak up the wax so it doesn't drip away?
> would sawdust and wax work just as well as wood chips?




Great question. I have found that this process works best when the liquid wax has all been absorbed. I did a small experiment when I first started this. I purchased several off the shelf fire starters and I made two batches of my own. Both of my batches were hardwood but, one was chips the other was dust. 

All of these were cut into similar shapes and weights. Then individualy burned and timed. I can not find the spreadsheet I made for this test so my exact data of Brand vs. Time is lost. What I do remember is the one I made with chips won with a 35% longer burn time. 

So, end result, I make my own and get to use my planer chips that used to be waste.

Side note, free used candles have a very strange smell to them when all melted together, and every batch smells different.


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## bswartzwelder (Aug 14, 2013)

I saw where someone mentioned mixing a pound of chips with 10 pounds of oak pellets. That would be incineration and not pyrolyzation. It is very likely to give off huge amounts of toxic gasses. If you throw an old tire on a camp fire, the fumes aren't burned in the fire, but escape into the atmosphere in the form of a dirty, sooty, smelly smoke. The other problem is you now have the ashes from 11 pounds of material. Only one pound had PM's in it, so it will take more chemicals to get the PM's in solution. Just my $0.02 worth.


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## 924T (Aug 16, 2013)

bswartzwelder,

Technically, you're right on target.

What's burning in my mind (all puns intended) are patnor1011's pictures, with his cast iron pot up to its gills
in burning coal, but the top of the bowl (and thus, the chips) are exposed to Oxygen------that's technically not
pyrolysis, but it certainly works for him.

My oak pellets concept was to perform a rudimentary cupola layered charge, meaning a layer of pellets, then
a thin layer of chips, many layers that way, topped by a very thick layer of pellets, so the chips would be
immersed in flame at all times.

My one failed experiment with a $15 portable charcoal grill (and, as it turned out, an insufficient quantity of
charcoal) showed that the chips will smoke horribly for 4-5 minutes (luckily I only put in 100 grams of chips),
so my intention with the pellets would be to ensure that there were enough pellets, to ensure that there would
be enough burn time, to guarantee the chips would be in flame at all times.

The ash i wasn't worried about, because last year GSP indicated that the hardwood pellets he uses in his meat
smoker leave very, very little ash.

If this works, I believe I would name it the "Slor" process, so that I could quote from the original "Ghostbusters"
movie, and be able to say: "They (the chips) knew what it was like to be roasted in the belly of the Slor that 
day, I tell you!" :lol: 

Cheers,

Mike


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## bswartzwelder (Aug 17, 2013)

Thanks for the explanation, Mike. I didn't realize the oak pellets burned and left very little ash. Having thought about it, on cold winter evenings we put a lot of firewood in the fireplace and by the next morning have a pile of light, fluffy ashes much smaller in volume. Obviously, I have no first hand experience with pyrolyzing/incinerating chips, but I would also suspect the amount of ashes produced by a small amount of chips might be very small in comparison to the original volume? Anyone here want to offer a guess as to what we can expect after pyrolyzing/incinerating say a pound of chips? I hope to change my status on pyrolyzation/incineration soon, but have decided to tackle one recovery method before jumping into 3 more. 

Mike, have you abandoned the idea of the two propane cylinders? If you are interested in my last PM email, let me know.


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## 924T (Aug 17, 2013)

bswartzwelder,

I had sent a lengthy reply to your last PM, but it must not have gone through for some reason, because it had
my skillet problems question it it.

And, I got rolling on a post about how I'm pursuing your propane tanks for pyrolysis suggestion, and realized
I had gone off-topic for this thread, and had to move it over to the Campbells or Progresso soup can thread.

As relates to hardwood pellet ash, I was speculating that about the worst problem it would cause might be
that it would make the patnor1011 process water-bath-shock-treatment for the hot pyrolized/incinerated chips
a wee bit basic, since hardwood ash can be used to make lye.

At this point I'm viewing burning IC chips in pellets as just an experiment; my focus is on the propane cylinders.

Cheers,

Mike


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## MysticColby (Aug 28, 2013)

Just wanted to say that I made some of these and they work pretty good.
What I had was something between sawdust and chips. It's from a planer, a mix of different woods.
disposable aluminum tray on a hot plate, add one giant candle, heat on low for a few minutes until all melted.
slowly add sawdust, mixing and folding it in to get it all damp and soaked with wax.
I would push it all to one side of the tray and see if any non-soaked-up wax was still free on the bottom of the tray. If there was, add more sawdust.
spread it evenly, remove from heat, cover with plywood cut to fit inside tray, add heavy weight, wait overnight, remove from tray.
I tried burning a cubic inch piece. It ignited instantly from a lighter (less than 1 second of flame exposure) and burned for several minutes. perfect for my uses (starting the fire - not the primary heat source. I have plenty of access to carpentry scrap for that)
thank you


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## ilikesilver (Sep 1, 2013)

biomass are designed for a high heat and long burning. I do you pellets for heat fuel in the winter. Now you can get boilers up here in vermont for your hole house. I agree with forced air you should be able to increase your operating temps. tim


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