# Another Gold Button - Getting Easier Each Time!



## Anonymous (Apr 17, 2013)

Hello members,

I have refined and melted me another gold button. This is my 2nd time with gold, and so far, so good. Reading Hoke's book and reading the threads daily on this forum has made this all possible.

I started with 13.34 grams of mixed gold jewelry, in which I bought from a member here (*flyfisherman* - thanks) + I had some of my own gold. Pure gold content was 7.27 grams, but right now, I only recovered 4.67g. I still have the solution, so I'll rework it later. I added 15 grams of silver to inquart the gold, but I only recovered 13 grams of the silver. I still have that solution too. I'll get to that later on.

Anyway, it took me two days from inquarting to melting the button. The silver I just added it to my silver powder stock and I'll melt that later on too.










Right now I have some foils that I started on last September that I processed today. Right now they're in the stage of SMB. I'll post what I get from that batch tomorrow. I'm also thinking about when I get pictures of each button I make, to simply melt them all together to make a bigger button. I'm not sure, just a thought right now.

Kevin


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## artart47 (Apr 17, 2013)

Looks good! Oh, what a feeling! Hey?
artart47


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## jmdlcar (Apr 17, 2013)

Nice Kevin those 2 looks great. Some I'll have mind but I don't know when.

Jack


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## Anonymous (Apr 17, 2013)

artart47 said:


> Looks good! Oh, what a feeling! Hey?
> artart47


Oh boy... what a feeling it is indeed! :mrgreen: 




jmdlcar said:


> Nice Kevin those 2 looks great. Some I'll have mind but I don't know when.


Don't worry, you'll get there. I started refining silver before I took on the gold, and most people I've read here so far.. most are doing gold first. It takes time, but for me now that I've refined a few different types of silver and gold, I, personally think gold is easier and faster to refine than silver, or they're a 50/50 split on the time to get to the melted piece.

Kevin


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## jmdlcar (Apr 18, 2013)

My problem is I don't have a lot of any one kind of e-scrap and I don't to mess anything up cause if I do mess up I will lose everything I work for and save for will be gone. With every gold scrap I have total would add up to maybe 1 pound may a little more and it took me to long to get it. The test strip I have and done was less .5 gram powder. I want to wait and melt it when I get 1 gram or more so I can see the button. I'm sorry this is your thread I will delete if you don't want it here.

Jack


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## Anonymous (Apr 18, 2013)

jmdlcar said:


> My problem is I don't have a lot of any one kind of e-scrap and I don't to mess anything up cause if I do mess up I will lose everything I work for and save for will be gone. With every gold scrap I have total would add up to maybe 1 pound may a little more and it took me to long to get it. The test strip I have and done was less .5 gram powder. I want to wait and melt it when I get 1 gram or more so I can see the button. I'm sorry this is your thread I will delete if you don't want it here.
> 
> Jack


I'm not sure if you melted any gold yet, but what you have is enough to see, and at the same time get the experience. I had a member refine some material for me a month before I decided I was going to start refining for myself, and he sent me a button that was .7 grams. It was nice to see nevertheless.

Another reason I suggest you melt it now, and that is it may come time for you to have to barter or use that gold to pay for something. You never know. Plus, just looking at the button you actually refined yourself will give you the sense of pride and it'll encourage you to find more material. Trust me.. looking at your own refined gold, even silver will boost up the confidence to do more.

Hang in there, you'll get yours soon enough.

Kevin


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## jmdlcar (Apr 18, 2013)

I just got a new mini furnace. I will melt it soon so I can share.

Jack


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## Clneal2003 (Jul 7, 2014)

Let's say your first gold button is pretty pure but not as much as you would like... Mine is a light brown but not as light as the button at the top of this post. Can you melt it into a button and keep it around and then re-digest in hcl CL? I know it would be easier for hcl CL just to dissolve the powder form but technically since a melted button lets say 90% pure wouldn't the hcl CL still be able to dissolve the melted button? I'm wondering because now I've got all my jars tied up in different stages and would like to start melting them into buttons and then just start over with a couple of buttons to dissolve. What's the thoughts? Just get more jars and go through the powder over and over?


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## heliman4141 (Jul 7, 2014)

Clneal2003 said:


> Let's say your first gold button is pretty pure but not as much as you would like... Mine is a light brown but not as light as the button at the top of this post. Can you melt it into a button and keep it around and then re-digest in hcl CL? I know it would be easier for hcl CL just to dissolve the powder form but technically since a melted button lets say 90% pure wouldn't the hcl CL still be able to dissolve the melted button? I'm wondering because now I've got all my jars tied up in different stages and would like to start melting them into buttons and then just start over with a couple of buttons to dissolve. What's the thoughts? Just get more jars and go through the powder over and over?




Melting a button takes way too long in hcl CL if at all depending on size,
While its in powder form is the perfect time to do a hcl boil, multiple rinses then a re-drop a 2nd time. Keep all your batches seperate as they contain different contiminates and you want to keep everything as pure as possible. If you melt them now you might have to inquart with Silver to dissolve them lateron. Hcl CL only works well on powder & foils. You would need to use nitric AR to break down & liquify a sold nugget or bead. Resist the temptation to just mix them all together & recover unless the color of the powder is exactly the same.
Usually boiling in hcl & multiple rinses after the first drop is all you need then re-drop a 2nd time after your hcl CL has the Gold in a liquid state & the color of it is clear & Golden after adding a bit of sulpheric to drop any tin/lead still suspended, then do the final filtering & re-drop. This would be the safest rout should any batches still end up with contimanants & need further processing IMHO.

Dave


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## philddreamer (Jul 7, 2014)

> Melting a button takes way too long in hcl CL if at all depending on size,



Remember, you don't MELT metals in chemicals, you digest or dissolve them. 8) 

Take care!

Phil


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## Clneal2003 (Jul 8, 2014)

Fair enough. I figured I should hold off on melting and keep refining. I'll just go get some more jars. I think I found a good way to store the powder until I have enough refined worth melting. I bought some small shallow corningware with a lid. Digesting a 6 gram 10 k button is what started this to begin with. I didn't have enough resources to get or make nitric so I've been digesting and digesting and digesting this 10k button for over a week in batch after batch of hcl CL. I get precipitate in small batches but now I've got two or three cycles all in different stages. I refined one batch twice and it actually has gold flakes showing up in the brown precipitate. I may upload a photo tomorrow of it. 

I strongly recommend following the suggested method of using nitric on karat gold. It can be done with hcl CL but it is taking way longer than it would have if I just spent some moolah to make some poormans nitric.


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## Harold_V (Jul 8, 2014)

It's pretty simple. If you have various batches of gold powder which you intend to re-refine, simply store them as a common batch. There is no harm, nor is there a benefit in keeping them separate. I did this routinely, and re-refined only when I had a minimum of 75 ounces. I had no issues with the process, and had excellent results with the second refining. 

I would comment that you should make every effort to do a thorough washing with the first precipitation. The goal is to remove as much of the contamination as is possible--so that the second precipitation has little in the way of contamination to drag down. The less there is present, the better will be the overall quality of the second refining, as even the most prolonged washing won't remove deeply seated contaminants, which become isolated by the metal trapped around the center. 

Well washed gold will have a strong tendency to clump up---and tends to be very light in color---which I reference as "blond" gold. 

Harold


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## heliman4141 (Jul 8, 2014)

philddreamer said:


> > Melting a button takes way too long in hcl CL if at all depending on size,
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Oops, yes........I meant dissolve not melt . 
That will teach me to pre-read my posts! :mrgreen: 

Dave


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## Clneal2003 (Jul 8, 2014)

Harold - 75oz.'s?! You might not want to answer this... But I've got to try asking.

There are a few guys on here that refine MASSIVE amounts of gold. How do you get to that level? That's over $105,000.00 in intrinsic value in today's gold! Did you guys slowly work up to that amount or are some, self made retired millionaires? Just wondering? Were you the guy talking about refining 8oz.'s just out of his fume hood every couple of years? 

I appreciate the info. I can't believe guys like you, lazersteve, and countless others who refine huge amounts take any time at all to help other people through the process. I'm sitting here trying to squeeze 2 grams of gold out of a jar full of yellow solution. 

Good to know just to lump the powders together and keep digesting, precipitating, and washing. After I read your post about washing...

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldr...First+wash+should+be+First+wash+should+#p2620

My gold powder went from a very black powder to a moderate brown on the first wash. I'll wait for the other batches to catch up and then keep cycling.


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## heliman4141 (Jul 9, 2014)

Clneal2003 said:


> Harold - 75oz.'s?! You might not want to answer this... But I've got to try asking.
> 
> There are a few guys on here that refine MASSIVE amounts of gold. How do you get to that level? That's over $105,000.00 in intrinsic value in today's gold! Did you guys slowly work up to that amount or are some, self made retired millionaires? Just wondering? Were you the guy talking about refining 8oz.'s just out of his fume hood every couple of years?
> 
> ...





Ive been wondering about that same question since I became a member myself. Harold said he started as a machinist & got mentored as a great machinist, how one goes from working a regular job to 75 ounces at a time baffles me too unless you hit lotto or inherated a million bucks. Id LOVE to hear this story of fame myself IF he would be willing to share his story,........ he may not be.

A few others also have some very interesting ladders they climbed as well here to the top but ive read no personal adventures anywhere on this forum about how any of them started to finish making it big, I think that is the trade secret that most keep personal these days not the process anymore. I have several millionare friends and all of them told me the same story,long days of hard work, hard work, hard work...I imagine everyone here who has made it to the top would say that too..............

Dave


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## Lou (Jul 9, 2014)

Even 75 ounces is not a huge amount of gold--a several thousand ounce batch is glass-lined kettle work but that is how it is done.


Many of the largest domestic refineries are dissolving many thousands of ounces per day.


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## Harold_V (Jul 11, 2014)

Clneal2003 said:


> Harold - 75oz.'s?! You might not want to answer this... But I've got to try asking.
> 
> There are a few guys on here that refine MASSIVE amounts of gold. How do you get to that level?


Time, and a dedication to my work. I ran my own (commercial) machine shop, but I had started refining prior to 1975, when restrictions were lifted. That put me in great position to refine for others, as I already had gone through the basics, and had a reasonable understanding of the process. I had the good fortune to have a manufacturing jeweler ask me to refine his waste materials. It grew from there. although it was a slow process. It was never intended to be a business, but it got to the point where I could no longer machine and process as well, so when I moved to the castle, I closed the doors on my machine shop and turned to refining full time. 



> That's over $105,000.00 in intrinsic value in today's gold! Did you guys slowly work up to that amount or are some, self made retired millionaires?


Unlike many, I didn't sell my gold. I had an adequate income, so selling was not necessary, and my objective was to own gold. I refined on a percentage basis, and put away that which I had earned. It became my working stock, so I didn't have to re-refine small batches. In that regard, the largest volume I processed at one time was just under 28 pounds avoirdupois (about 400 troy ounces). Bear in mind, I refined for more than 20 years. 

I won't discuss my worth, but understand that I have no formal education, and worked hard (12 hour days were the norm), both in my machine shop and in refining. As a result, I was able to retire when I was just shy of my 55th birthday. I don't do drugs (and never have), I don't spend my money on tobacco, nor on foolish things. I was born and raised in a household that was not wealthy, but I had a father who set a wonderful example about earning your way in life. 



> Just wondering? Were you the guy talking about refining 8oz.'s just out of his fume hood every couple of years?


Correct. My fume hood was designed and built for the purpose of incineration and refining. Previous experience had taught me that I was losing values, so I included a capture chamber and a filter, so I could restrict my losses. 



> I appreciate the info. I can't believe guys like you, lazersteve, and countless others who refine huge amounts take any time at all to help other people through the process. I'm sitting here trying to squeeze 2 grams of gold out of a jar full of yellow solution.


I no longer refine, as I sold the refining business when I retired. I try to answer questions for those who have shown an interest and a willingness to learn. However, I expect that each individual do his/her homework, by reading Hoke, and other texts that are appropriate. I speak highly of Hoke, as with her book one can learn enough to refine quite well, even if they have no chemical background. I am not keen on helping those with an entitlement attitude, and I do not suffer fools gladly. 

Harold


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## heliman4141 (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks Harold for the story, explains a lot, 
And yes, your worth is your business not ours. I now understand how the process went from one level to the next over time, connections mean everything in just about any business.
Im sure that Jewelry manufacturer was a huge boost for ya. Interesting story, the long 12 hr. days sounds spot on too.......................Thanks for sharing.
Glad to hear your healthy & got to retire at a young age. An American dream come true.

Dave


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