# muriatic acid/home made nitric acid



## danny987

If i dissolved silver in this acid how could i separate it? The reason im asking is that nitric acid is very hard to get, and very expensive. If muriatic acid does not work is there any other refining method i can use?

EDIT- would this recipe really make nitric acid?



> There are things that I like to use nitric acid for and when I need it, I
> just make my own batch up to use. It is easy and in fact, I have another
> batch mixing up in the wash room so I can do some silver refining or gold stripping by dissolving the base metals from under a gold plated surface.
> 
> All that needs to be done is mix some sodium nitrate into sulfuric acid(car battery
> or drain opener). It works out to about 1 quart to 1/2 cup sodium nitrate to make a mild nitric acid. Pre dissolve 1/2 cup of sodium nitrate in 16 ounces of hot disstilled water and mix this with 1 quart of sulfuric acid. This works with either type of acid. Just give it about 15 mins to combine. If it is too weak for what your working with, heat it on a hot plate but DO NOT boil. Boiling will drive off the nitric acid in the steam.
> 
> If I wanted to make it stronger, then it would be boiled and run through a condensing coil like one would make whiskey!  The condensed liquid is close to a 70% nitric acid


[/quote]


----------



## goldsilverpro

You can't dissolve silver in muriatic acid.


----------



## catfish

Hi Danny:

If you are just looking for some nitric to dissolve some silver, you may want to go the following link on EBay.

Item No.

260268502825

This guy has it but it is somewhat expensive. He also sells it by the quart too.

I have purchased it by the gallon from him and it works great. : Like I say, it is expensive. I mix this 68% acid with one to one H2O and dissolve silver sterling and etc, use a little heat. Works great. Also you probably are already aware that it is much easier to dissolve the silver into Silver Nitrate and cement it back out with copper. An old buss bar works best. This process is so much easier than dissolving into silver chloride and then back.

Catfish


----------



## Anonymous

I use that for gold pins and stuff like that. I try to keep the solder out it makes a floaty kinda stuff that is hard to settle and seperate from the gold exspecially on lightly plated stuff.

Jim


----------



## danny987

catfish said:


> Hi Danny:
> 
> If you are just looking for some nitric to dissolve some silver, you may want to go the following link on EBay.
> 
> Item No.
> 
> 260268502825
> 
> This guy has it but it is somewhat expensive. He also sells it by the quart too.
> 
> I have purchased it by the gallon from him and it works great. : Like I say, it is expensive. I mix this 68% acid with one to one H2O and dissolve silver sterling and etc, use a little heat.  Works great. Also you probably are already aware that it is much easier to dissolve the silver into Silver Nitrate and cement it back out with copper. An old buss bar works best. This process is so much easier than dissolving into silver chloride and then back.
> 
> Catfish




ok thanks for the link. How many ounces could that dissolve?


----------



## catfish

Hi Danny: 

On sterling silver (92.5%) I use 1.0 milliliter of nitric for 1.0 gram of pure silver and 3.5 ml of nitric for each gram of other metal like copper and etc. (GSP formula)

So on 10 grams of sterling at 92.5% silver, I would use 12.0 ml of nitric acid and 12.0 ml of distilled water. Bring it to about 150 to 175 degrees F. and it should totally dissolve in about 5 to 10 minutes. Always use a glass over your beaker to condense and retain the vaporized nitric.

I also found that when you dissolve silver, it is best to put about half your acid solution in the metal and watch it until the action stops or slows and then add the rest of the acid solution.

I don’t know why this seems to work best, maybe GSP, Harold, Lou or Steve could tell you the technical reasons for this.

Catfish


----------



## Lino1406

to precipitate silver from
soution. Add distilled water,
then NaOH - to get Ag2O
right for melting, after
rinsing and drying


----------



## ivanchrist

what about HCL-CL? might work to dilute the silver.
just a thought


----------



## Sylar

Nitric acid can indeed be easily made out of concentrated sulfuric acid and a nitrate.

Simply mix the finely groud powder and the acid intimately in a large shallow glas jar. Make a layer of no more then 1 cm thick. In the center of the jar you need to place an empty glass cup. Then take a PP sheet and fix it with a rubber band over the mounth of the large jar, letting it bulge in the middle so the condensed nitric acid drops in the empty cup.

Add some water in the bulge so heat of condensation can be absorbed and place the whole thing on low heat, no more then 50-60°C. Congratulations, you just made a poor mans acid resistant destillation setup 

If a schematic is required, I'm sure I can conjure something up ... but not today, time for bed.


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

Nitric acid can indeed be easily made out of concentrated sulfuric acid and a nitrate.

Simply mix the finely groud powder and the acid intimately in a large shallow glas jar. Make a layer of no more then 1 cm thick. In the center of the jar you need to place an empty glass cup. Then take a PP sheet and fix it with a rubber band over the mounth of the large jar, letting it bulge in the middle so the condensed nitric acid drops in the empty cup.

Add some water in the bulge so heat of condensation can be absorbed and place the whole thing on low heat, no more then 50-60°C. Congratulations, you just made a poor mans acid resistant destillation setup 

If a schematic is required, I'm sure I can conjure something up ... but not today, time for bed.
silver
by ivanchrist » August 



can you post schematic im trying to remove copper from gold need to liquify the copper so i can filter out the gold letting the copper liquified run through the filter and gold to the acid needing disposal please help ive bout $200 in and cant git my gold to melt to anything sellable im using muriatic peroxide bleach and lye still gitting gp copper 2;25am 8\18\21


----------



## Yggdrasil

I'm quite confused now.
At first sight it looked as you had written the passage 
in the beginning.
But now I think you are just quoting it.
For that purpose there are an useful tool on top of 
the window you write in.
It is much easier to get the meaning then, and please 
quote only the relevant information.

Then, to your question.....
I really do not understand what you have done.
Can you please post step by step what you have done.
And what your start material was.

Then we can see what can be done.
Starting by searching this forum and read Hokes book are usually what we ask of new members.


----------



## rickbb

randydnesselrotte1 said:


> can you post schematic im trying to remove copper from gold need to liquify the copper so i can filter out the gold letting the copper liquified run through the filter and gold to the acid needing disposal please help ive bout $200 in and cant git my gold to melt to anything sellable im using muriatic peroxide bleach and lye still gitting gp copper 2;25am 8\18\21



Sounds like you've made a giant mess. 

First, this post is about making nitric acid for use on silver, you are asking about gold on copper. Not even close to relevant. 

Second, you use muriatic and a small amount of peroxide to start dissolving copper. This makes a cupric chloride, you keep this process running by adding air with a small air pump and air stone like is used in aquariums. It's a simple process and done correctly will dissolve all the copper and leave the bits of gold intact. 

You now have gold, you can melt as is or if you want to make it more pure, then you go to a different step to dissolve the gold and drop it back to solid, then melt.

These are 2 different processes, first recover, then refine.

edit to add:

None of the gold recovery and refining processes, that I know of anyway, use lye at all. Lye is used in some silver processes.


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

ok so heres where i am.. ive made nitric acid with muriatic and calcium nitrate and copper gassing into a bowl of distilled water, iv combined sayed water with muriatic and created aqua regia i believe ive dropped everything from the muriatic/bleach solution and disolved it in the assumed aqua regia just filtered it and am about to try and drop my gold with lye anything else i need to do????


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

i started with 5gal. bucket of circuit boards and 350g. of melted gold pins and a couple gp rings started in muriatic and peroxide for bout a month then filtered filtered material got liquified in muriatic and bleach dropped out with drain cleaners, but melted to plated copper i couldnt sell,... now im to the last message i just posted,,,,,,, im almost done with the bleach solution


Lye is sodium hydroxide.


----------



## Yggdrasil

So why would you try to drop gold with lye?
Where have you picked up that info, certainly not in Hokes book or this forum.
Gold can be dropped with copperas (Iron sulfate), ascorbic acid, oxcalic acid, SMB (Sodium Meta Bisulfite) and other ways.
I have never heard about using lye, it would neutralize the solution and create a mess of different hydroxides. 

That was the reasons for my earlier question to you.
What have you done with what and why.
Now we have some more info but, not enough.
So please enlighten us.


----------



## acpeacemaker

randydnesselrotte1 said:


> ok so heres where i am.. ive made nitric acid with muriatic and calcium nitrate and copper gassing into a bowl of distilled water, iv combined sayed water with muriatic and created aqua regia i believe ive dropped everything from the muriatic/bleach solution and disolved it in the assumed aqua regia just filtered it and am about to try and drop my gold with lye anything else i need to do????



Where did you test with stannous? This is your eyes. It keeps the guessing out of the equation.


----------



## rickbb

randydnesselrotte1 said:


> i started with 5gal. bucket of circuit boards and 350g. of melted gold pins and a couple gp rings started in muriatic and peroxide for bout a month then filtered filtered material got liquified in muriatic and bleach dropped out with drain cleaners, but melted to plated copper i couldnt sell,... now im to the last message i just posted,,,,,,, im almost done with the bleach solution
> 
> 
> Lye is sodium hydroxide.




" dropped out with drain cleaners " ??? What, why?

" melted gold pins " ?? explain? 

Was that a big giant block of pins all melted together? You know that block of melted pins was 99.9% iron alloy right?

First mistake, taking 3 separate types of material and using a process that is designed for just one. Clean depopulated plated circuit boards work really well in muriatic/peroxide. BUT NOT pins or plated jewelry. Even circuit boards will fail if you don't remove all the soldered on components and excess solder first.

What you have now is a mess and beyond anyone but an expert to be able to salvage any gold you may have locked up it that bucket.

Good luck.


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

https://www.911metallurgist.com/pyrometallurgy/dissolving-gold-and-precipitating-gold/


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<this is where the lye comes in play>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

thanks for the replys appreciate it


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

the drain cleaners had the metabisulfite the bonide stumpout done the same thing but it all had copper in it still but the gold dropped with it now i understand nitric acit is sposed to be the only thing that disolve copper so i made the nitric used it filtered out im hoping the copper and dropped out with the lye ill melt it down today or tomorrow and see if its sellable now and stannous i tried to make but wouldnt disolve the tin


----------



## Yggdrasil

I got even more confused now, almost.
Please do explain in a point for point: 
what your start material was.
How did you treat it 
And so on.

If you had any kind of metal in your solution after dissolving gold the gold would have precipitated straight out immideatly.

SMB need to be in an acidic environment to work.

Did you test anything at all with stannous???


----------



## acpeacemaker

randydnesselrotte1 said:


> the drain cleaners had the metabisulfite the bonide stumpout done the same thing but it all had copper in it still but the gold dropped with it now i understand nitric acit is sposed to be the only thing that disolve copper so i made the nitric used it filtered out im hoping the copper and dropped out with the lye ill melt it down today or tomorrow and see if its sellable now and stannous i tried to make but wouldnt disolve the tin



Can you structure your sentencing a little better? You have jumbled it all into one large mess. And if you are trying to recover your gold like your writing. Please Stop.
Hopes, wishes, and throwing a bunch of stuff together is going to get you hurt. Any amount of gold there isnt worth your health. Nitric, and lye and a flame. Theres a lot of serious things you are playing with.


----------



## galenrog

Well, Randy, aside from irrational exuberance and zero practical experience, one of your problems is reliance on 911metalurgist for direction. Perhaps it is the stroke talking, but I have found that many threads there, including the one you linked to, contain far too much misinformation that no one bothers to correct.

Also, which drain cleaner contains, as a primary ingredient, sodium metabisulfite? Just curious. 

Time for more coffee.


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

instant power drain cleaners


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

instant power main line


----------



## galenrog

Sodium Metabisulfite is NOT listed as an ingredient on any of their products, nor is it listed on any of their Safety Data Sheets. Most of their products do contain Sodium Hydroxide, Potassium Hydroxide, or both. 

Again, which drain cleaner contains, as a primary ingredient, Sodium Metabisulfite? Hint: Correct answer is none.

Time for more coffee.


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

so when cleaning the gold dirt with clean muriatic acid which is the gold and which is the other metals,,. i added fresh muriatic started turning dark with a light colored sedement in bottom this is muriatic/nitric dropped with lye and cleaned with fresh muriatic


----------



## galenrog

Why are you attempting to precipitate gold from solution with Sodium Hydroxide? 

Time for more coffee.


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

because it drops
instead of heckling me about it mf im here explainin my fkn problems in hopes of help so help me, i dont need the bs, its wat im tryn to escape,... thank you and god bless you all


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

acpeacemaker said:


> randydnesselrotte1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the drain cleaners had the metabisulfite the bonide stumpout done the same thing but it all had copper in it still but the gold dropped with it now i understand nitric acit is sposed to be the only thing that disolve copper so i made the nitric used it filtered out im hoping the copper and dropped out with the lye ill melt it down today or tomorrow and see if its sellable now and stannous i tried to make but wouldnt disolve the tin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you structure your sentencing a little better? You have jumbled it all into one large mess. And if you are trying to recover your gold like your writing. Please Stop.
> Hopes, wishes, and throwing a bunch of stuff together is going to get you hurt. Any amount of gold there isnt worth your health. Nitric, and lye and a flame. Theres a lot of serious things you are playing with.
Click to expand...


yes i understand nitric is explosive when heated, and no i have everything dropped out of the muriatic bleach solution now im trying to remove the copper from the droppings with the muriatic and nitric im asking for help so.......the only thing other then muriatic and nitric in my solution is the drops from the bleach solution and they are fairly dry when placed in the nitric solution


----------



## randydnesselrotte1

https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=6350


----------



## galenrog

It will work. But only when gold is the only metal in solution. Your description thus far indicates a mix of metals in solution, with no evidence of you having tested this solution for presence of gold. Adding sodium hydroxide will cause nearly all metals present to precipitate as hydroxides of those metals. This puts you back to square one: recovery of gold.

Follow standard procedures, and your results will be similar. Make up your own procedures, especially when inexperienced, and your results will show that, also.

Please use real words, not abbreviations. This forum is international in scope, with many members using translation programs to communicate.

Perhaps I should rephrase my question. What is the advantage of using sodium hydroxide over sodium metabisulfite, copperas, sulfur dioxide gas, or ascorbic acid?

Time for more coffee.

Edit: Using Sodium Hydroxide to drop gold from solution is something I read when I dug into the idea. I have never used the method due to also having read that nearly every other metal in the same solution will also be precipitated as hydroxides of those metals. Why make one mess out of another. Better, more selective methods are easily available.

Regarding your temporary suspension, Randy, I have found that people who are lazy with language are lazy in many aspects of their lives. Clean up the language, and you will likely clean up your attitude toward metals recovery and refining.

Again, time for more coffee.


----------



## Topher_osAUrus

randydnesselrotte1 said:


> because it drops
> instead of heckling me about it mf im here explainin my fkn problems in hopes of help so help me, i dont need the bs, its wat im tryn to escape,... thank you and god bless you all



Hello sir.

Galenrog is a much better man than myself, because if you would have hurled those abbreviated slurs at me, I wouldve said nothing further and let you die a slow death from your own rushed mishandling of dangerous things, as well as your refusal to take constructive words in the spirit in which they are being offered. -as help. The reason why a certain chemical is suggested (for precipitation or dissolution) is because it is a tried and true method, used for years and years. What you are doing, sounds more like how I treat my waste solution than refining.. but what do I know. 

And, by the way (..That's 'btw', to/for you)


God said:


> Treat others how you want to be treated



Now, I'm no jesus type, but I think it goes something like that.
I'll have to look that one up though..
Maybe I'll get back to your before you're smited by the almighty banhammer


----------



## Martijn

randydnesselrotte1 said:


> because it drops
> instead of heckling me about it *mf* im here explainin my *fkn* problems in hopes of help so help me, i dont need the *bs*, its wat im tryn to escape,... thank you and god bless you all



An additude and language like that will only result in a BAN!! 

Muriatic does not dissolve copper! 

Nitric acid is not combustible! you need a combustible material to have an explosion. Some nitrate compounds however... but which? So what do you actually know, or do you think you know? 

May i suggest to apologize and try again in a civilized manner... 
Thanks for the blessings anyway. 

And treat others with the respect you expect, please. 

Martijn.


----------



## galenrog

Randy is nearing the end of a one week timeout. Perhaps this time will be used for a little reflection. Perhaps not. I wish him well.

Time for more coffee.


----------

