# is it legal to do what we do?



## ericrm (Jan 11, 2015)

im in canada, and i only do it as a part time activity. but i was always so afraid that it was illegal that i never tryed anything other than hide my activity...

do i need a license or something special to recover pm legaly at my home?


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## butcher (Jan 11, 2015)

I am not sure about laws where you live, but here it is legal as long as you follow common sense, and certain rules, or laws, like dealing with your waste properly, not burning circuit boards, not buying stolen gold and melting or dissolving it ...

Even using or chemicals nowadays brings attention or can raise eyebrows, because most people think they are only used for drug making or other illegal activity.

Keeping this hobby low key is a good idea, you do not need unwanted attention from somebody who thinks you have a batch of gold they can steal, or from someone who may report that they suspect you have a drug lab, or from some overzealous (chemically uninformed, environmentalist) regulatory agency employee.

Keeping MSDS sheets and using safe practices in your lab, using and storing the chemicals safely, understanding and dealing with waste properly, and being able to explain how it is done, can be helpful when you do get a visit from a government official like DEQ, or the EPA official, or law official.
Being able to explain that you are not breaking the law, before they cuff you and take you in.

If this is a business, and not a hobby, you may have a bit of different set of laws to follow, and also depending on scale, or volume of materials you work with some of the rules can change.

Not all laws or rules are the same for every city, state, county, or country, so we need to understand our laws the best we can. Example, say it could be illegal to have a 5 pound can of KNO3 at your home in one country, but in another country they may not care if you have it at all (although they may wonder why you have it and want to investigate you to see if you are up to no good. 

These days it is hard to do much of anything without breaking some kind of law, with so many laws already on the books, and so many law makers who think it is their job to make many more laws every day, ignorance of the law is no excuse, and even lawyers argue what is in the law and what is not, none of us can know them all, but we can try to educate ourselves the best we can about what laws we need to follow, and use our common sense to do what is right.

What is legal today can be illegal tomorrow, take mining, or dredging for gold in my area for example.


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## ericrm (Jan 11, 2015)

thank you butcher it make a lot of sence, can someone can confirm that it is the same for canada?


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## necromancer (Jan 11, 2015)

i can, you never read my post of the swat team ?

it's very funny. as long as your doing it safely you are all good !!


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## necromancer (Jan 11, 2015)

your in Quebec (whole different world) maybe Noxx can answer this, or anyone else in Quebec


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## ericrm (Jan 11, 2015)

necromancer said:


> i can, you never read my post of the swat team ?


nop, at least i dont rember it... do you have key word that i could use for a search?


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## necromancer (Jan 11, 2015)

keyword = meth

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=20826&p=214140&hilit=+meth#p214140


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## Palladium (Jan 11, 2015)

Most of us are governed here in the U.S. by an exemption called: The Conditionally Exempt Small Quantity Generator. That's the federal stature. Some state like Alabama have an EPA department, but they follow federal guidelines. Some states have added to the federal guide lines with their own Mickey Mouse rules like California. Then within the states like Alabama who leave it to federal guidelines you have specific regions where the county and even the city will have a depart of environmental management adding even more rules you must follow in order to comply ( Birmingham ). It not a law! It's the word they like to use when they know it's not a law, It's call a regulatory stature, as the coal industry. We have unincorporated areas in Alabama that are only governed by federal laws with the state imposing oversight and nothing more. Alabama is a friendly refiner state and i have used that to my advantage for potential clients. I operate with minimal oversight and couldn't be happier. I do not have to have an EPA identification number, use a manifest
when shipping hazardous waste, report to EPA on a biannual basis, or send my hazardous waste to a permitted or
interim status Subtitle C facility.


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## justinhcase (Jan 11, 2015)

I have noticed that people who are in the business of recovering precious metals are treated very well by most governmental body's.
The first point being that we each respectively work to replace a commodity that all our monetary systems depend on.
They are desperate to replace large amount's of Au that they are meant to be holding for other governments but we all know have been squandered.
The second if I was going to pick a legal fight I would choose some one other than a gold refiner.
Historically they as a group have held a large amount of power ,our legal systems are based upon president and I think in most case's that concern us the presidents was set a long time ago by people who had very deep pockets and knew how to fight very hard for what they wanted.
Which is why we enjoy such a blessed life with thing like V.A.T. free operation.only schools religions and charity's normally get such status.


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## kurtak (Jan 12, 2015)

Eric

I have a question that may help you to answer your own question 

What is it about what you are doing that "makes you think" that what you are doing may be against the law :?: 

Kurt


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## ericrm (Jan 12, 2015)

that is a very good and eye opening question indeed. thanks


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## nickvc (Jan 12, 2015)

Many of the chemicals we use are used in various criminal activities that can attract attention from the authorities but if your doing the right things such as treating your wastes properly and not upsetting neighbours or the environment you should be fine.


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## pepsi78 (Jan 17, 2015)

ericrm said:


> im in canada, and i only do it as a part time activity. but i was always so afraid that it was illegal that i never tryed anything other than hide my activity...
> 
> do i need a license or something special to recover pm legaly at my home?



I don't use high risky stuff, if you can buy your stuff then you should be fine.

Chlorine bleach is used to wash clothing, HCL is used to clean bathtubs and other sanitary things, I do use it in my house to clean my toilet, sink and bathtub, even the floor. I don't use stuff like cyanide, that thing can kill you :mrgreen: 

Who is going to charge me if I empty a battery that has sulphuric acid, and I only use that in the order of miligrams.

Everything else like nitrate salts, HCL as detergent and other lovley things that you can buy in stores as cleaning agents or fertiliser.

Give me a break, it's just a hobby with small income, if you go industrial then I can begin to see problems for you, you do need a licence.


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## justinhcase (Jan 17, 2015)

It will depend entirely where you are.
You have to make an effort and ask your local authority's for advice.
Even buying most of the needed supply's is now an offense in the U.K. with out a license if you are not a trading company.
On top of that every local council will have formed a different interpretation of any legislation which is not helpful.
But the worst thing you can do is make an effort to hide what you are doing, If people where not curious they soon will be.
If you want to get people interested in your activity try to keep it a secret as no one can resist a mystery, and every one is looking for Walter White's or Abu Hanza's.
And remember failing to report an income no matter how small is an offense in it's self in most country's..


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## Richard NL (Feb 16, 2015)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=32375
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/NL/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32013R0098 

Regards,Richard.


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## beemine (Jun 17, 2015)

Thank you this looks like it could be very helpful site


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## fpower60 (Mar 8, 2016)

So im in canada to. Quebec province and i just started it but im a technologist in industrial electronics and i already using hlc peroxid solution to make electronics board and i dont see why using more chemical couls be illegal as far as i know if you dont drop it in the sink everytings is fine... If u put the waste in a small town the water place that they remove scrap water will see trouble and they will call environmental enforcement directorate and they will find you you will not got to jail but you will have to pay a freaking big fine so do this propely and you all clean and legal...


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