# C.M Hoke videos?



## SCW_Summoner (Jan 8, 2021)

I was wondering if anyone has done a complete video series on Hokes book. I ask since I have a disability. I read words understand them then in 4 pages lose them. But I retain almost everything I see through visual aid. Anything like that? I've seen many you tubers and I have all the videos memorized. But when things go sideways for me I cant find videos. Or even forums on it. Thank you for your time.


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## nickvc (Jan 8, 2021)

Welcome to the forum.
Sorry but if that is your problem then perhaps this is not a field for you, we deal with highly toxic substances and solutions if you can’t remember what’s what perhaps look to harvest and sell 8)


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## Johnny5 (Jan 8, 2021)

SCW_Summoner said:


> I've seen many you tubers and I have all the videos memorized. But when things go sideways for me I cant find videos.



Not to be a wise butt, but if you can memorize every video you watch, you are definitely in the wrong hobby.


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 8, 2021)

Well I'm retired. And I have many hobbies. But as I was changing out my well water filter media. I noticed shiny metal coming out. And thought it was bits of iron and copper. Tried to clean it. Got it to cleaner copper. Melted or in homemade electric furnace. And it turns out to be 8k or so gold. Panned the rest of it out and now I have 10 pounds of it. And would like to refine it. Just joined here. But been looking at other forms as well. And tons of videos over the last 3 months. Downloaded the hoke book. But again info in then out. Would appreciate help. And what other hobbies should I add? Thanks


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## jimdoc (Jan 8, 2021)

Got pictures?


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 8, 2021)

And just to clarify I know what's what. That's not the issue. The only issue is trying to get help and answers. I learn different. You sound like most of the teachers I had. Go read a book, and that's it. Well either way I will learn, with help or not. And I was a nuclear technician in the Air Force, I dealt with much worse chemicals. In the future if you dont know the answer dont raise your hand. Thank you.


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 8, 2021)

First time on forum's. How do I post a pic? Thanks


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 8, 2021)

please let me know if the pics came through. couldn't figure it out on my phone so switched to PC. Thanks


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 8, 2021)

I only melted 2 bars so far. stopped after shinning them up. thought i was melting copper to start with. Again its a new hobby. but used a jewelers test kit on it. 14k the line instantly disapears. 10k solution line disapears slowly over 30 seconds.


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## jmdlcar (Jan 9, 2021)

@SCW_Summoner, You have your own Gold Mine but about how long did it take to get 10 pounds? The best thing it's free.


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## nickvc (Jan 9, 2021)

Sorry if you feel our answers are not what you are looking for but we only have your best interest at heart.
When you are using chemicals that can seriously injure you or others if not worse we tend to be cautious in offering advice about using them.
My advice is to get one of your bars xrf read to find out exactly what you have there not just any gold but the base metals, if it’s mainly copper we may have a simple process to help you but we need those details first and a promise from you that you fully understand the process and it’s dangers.


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## g_axelsson (Jan 9, 2021)

I have a hard time to believe that you would find 10 pounds of low karat gold in your water filter. There is no real mechanism that would deposit gold and as a solid alloy in a water filter that I know of. Pipes and pipe fittings are often made from copper and copper alloys. Maybe the metal came in from work done to the pipes upstream or even a broken pump shedding pieces of metal.

It's a bit tricky but I tried to measure the size of the bars and found them to be about 31x65x101 mm sitting side by side. With 5 pounds of metal = 2270 grams it gives a density of 10,8 g/ml. Copper have a density of 8,96 and gold 19,32 g/ml. To get a density of 10,8 you have an alloy of about 4,4 karat.

This calculation is based on my approximations of the size so it can easily be off by more than 10% which means the alloy might be just plain bronze, brass or copper.

You should redo the touch stone acid test and compare it to bronze, brass and copper to see if it reacts similar to any of those alloys.
Or as Nick suggested, have the bars tested by XRF.

Göran


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## cosmetal (Jan 9, 2021)

SCW_Summoner said:


> Well I'm retired. And I have many hobbies. But as I was changing out my well water filter media. I noticed shiny metal coming out. And thought it was bits of iron and copper. Tried to clean it. Got it to cleaner copper. Melted or in homemade electric furnace. And it turns out to be 8k or so gold. Panned the rest of it out and now I have 10 pounds of it. And would like to refine it. Just joined here. But been looking at other forms as well. And tons of videos over the last 3 months. Downloaded the hoke book. But again info in then out. Would appreciate help. And what other hobbies should I add? Thanks



What is the source and composition of your well water filter media? If you know who the manufacturer was, Can you request an SDS (old MSDS) sheet?

Peace and health,
James


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## butcher (Jan 9, 2021)

Something just smells fishy to me about this well water filter story.


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## galenrog (Jan 9, 2021)

I am with Butcher, Nick, and Goran on this. While I do know a few people that have found traces of gold in well water, it was only traces that were identified by professionals when testing different filter media to determine best choice. I want more evidence showing what was found, filter media used (manufacturer, model, part number), material while still trapped in filter. 

Please do not take this the wrong way. The skeptics here, of which I am one, love to be proven wrong. Being proven wrong increases our knowledge base.

Time for more coffee.


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 9, 2021)

It's not from the media. The first tank is a drop tank. I live on a peninsula. Most people dont do well water here. Even with 3 filter tanks the water still tastes a little off. With out though. Its tea color. And smells of sulfur. I'm not sure what else I need to do to get help here. I know the story seems fishy. But I'm not trying to get a good story out there I'm trying to clean this up. And my well isn't bringing it up any more. Probably due to it's already to far from the inlet pipe for the pump to pull up. But I might dig a new hole. But I want to make sure that this is worth it. Again. I could use some help. Thank you


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 9, 2021)

Be patient wit me. No there are no copper pipes. Or up stream. Pictures later. My holding tank had .5 cut of gravel. But I dumped my other tanks first of crushed charcoal. The others have tiny resin. First tank had some with charcoal. The second tank filled with it, but it was almost black due to high iron. And there was something else in holding tank. It's almost like plastic. Some are red and some are black. I will try to get a pic of that. I will look around for xrt fun as I know it will tell me everything in it. Just wanted to skip that step to be honest. And again i know the dangers of chemicals and i know how to read a msds. It was a big part of my job. I really did work with nukes. In my pic with the pipe going in floor you will see pvc shavings. Took cap off. Was going to pull pipe out and measure depth to bottom. Again plan to dig a hole spending outcome. But its capped at other end. I do know that it's no more than 13 feet. And water is at 8ft. Again i live close to ocean. It took a while to pan this. As the copper has impurities that make it fall out. Unlike gold that is heavy and stays in the pan. Anything else to look for? And if it's not gold that's fine to. This started as me being excited about copper and mixing it with aluminum to make display daggers and vases. Things like that. Not here to make gold items. But will be trying to recover the copper in either case. Thanks


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## jimdoc (Jan 9, 2021)

What state are you in?


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 9, 2021)

I live in Pacific County Washington. Anyone around that can help let me know. Any more info to someone that lives close might know who I am. lol


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 9, 2021)

Oh and muriatic acid 20% did nothing to the shiny areas that look like gold but did eat at the copper area. Turned spots of the bar green. And other things like that to find out what it was without xrf gun.


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## galenrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Well, kids, I think I know what might be going on. Summoner, is the well near Long Beach, Ocean Park, or Tokeland? 

Time for more coffee.


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 9, 2021)

Yes. I'm in one of those areas. Please let me know. Thank you


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 9, 2021)

And to answer jmdcar's question. The container I put most of this in was about 33 gallon tub. It took a month to get enough for the two bars then i just classified down to get enough for two more bars. Which took 2hrs. To sift and pan. But again my well pump did the work. It collected over a years worth in tank before I dumped it.


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## galenrog (Jan 9, 2021)

SCW_Summoner said:


> Yes. I'm in one of those areas. Please let me know. Thank you



Well, which area. Try to be as specific as possible without giving out an address. Remember that nearly every well near Ocean Park hits salt water, as do many near Long Beach. I will run that by my contacts to verify my suspicions.

Time for more coffee.


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 9, 2021)

Long beach


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 10, 2021)

Also anyone know where a good place to get a test done on the metal? I'm not going to spend thousands for a xrf gun for a single test. Thank you


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## nickvc (Jan 10, 2021)

Most large gold buyers and all refiners should have one so find one close to you.


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## g_axelsson (Jan 10, 2021)

The easiest way to test the bars is to cut off a few grams in a corner and send for assay. It should cost you less than a hundred bucks and you will know in a week or two the exact composition of the bars. No chemicals needed.

Okay, to test your bars in a "redneck" way... first measure the density as good as you can. That could give you a hint of what it contains. Not much but at least it will add to the knowledge base about the bars.

Then, what chemicals do you have access to? Tin solder, nitric acid, sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, any nitrate salts? Hydrogen peroxide? Chlorine bleach? Are you comfortable to work with strong acids? Do you have proper ppe? If so, how do you plan to take care of toxic waste? Do you have a fume hood or a good protected (against kids and animals) place away from houses and equipment where you can work with acids?

We don't know you and for all we know you could be a 14 year old kid that are doing experiments in the basement. That's why we are both skeptic and cautious to advice new members in dangerous procedures.

One of the reasons we advise people to do their own research is to learn all the "what if":s when something doesn't go as planned. Doing research in a topic will pull up a lot of related questions and answers. It's just not possible to condense a craft that takes years to master into a short youtube video. Your first venture into this area will probably end in a mess. Mine did. Several times...

It also takes a lot of time to guide someone and none of us is paid to write on the forum. Many of us is paying forward, by spending time helping newbies as we were once helped, but our time is also limited.

Göran


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## kurtak (Jan 10, 2021)

butcher said:


> Something just smells fishy to me about this well water filter story.



One of the guys that I work with used to be a well driller in California - he has told me how he has a number of times found actual gold "nuggets" when drilling wells :shock: :mrgreen: 

So I can certainly see where "fine" gold could be picked up by a well pump - if the well is in the right place

Kurt


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 10, 2021)

I have ppe out the wazoo. Heck I still have my military gear, gas mask and all. Working in a shed away from house. Created my own ventalation. My kids are not allowed near it, or my dogs. And no neighbors. I would love a basement. But again it would be under water, lol. And again I really did work with nukes, so I know all about safety. The chems I worked with as a field technician are much scarier than fuming nitric acid and concentrated sulfuric acid. I can get all the required chems to do everything. And I have access to lower grade chems like others. I'm retired so I have the time and money for this. I'm very skilled with alot of knowledge. I just learn crazy fast through visual aid. So it's why this thread started. I understand hesitation. So ask anything you want.


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## galenrog (Jan 10, 2021)

Long Beach, Washington, is known for fine gold on the beaches. From time to time, someone runs across an ancient, onshore deposit. These deposits are a result of gold being transported by the Columbia River, and its geologic predecessors, to what are now the beaches of southwest Washington. These deposits are nearly always associated with heavy black sands.

I sent out inquiries to everyone I personally know who has experience, both past and present, mining beaches of the Long Beach Peninsula. I included pertinent portions of this thread. Once I hear back from a few, I will revisit the discussion regarding the source material for your bars.

Goran, in his post above, gives the best advice on how to proceed. A proper assay will give a complete picture of what is in your bars. XRF, while very useful, has limitations that have been discussed on this forum innumerable times. Knowing the composition of the bars will tell us what techniques to use to recover gold from your bars. 

Time for more coffee.


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## butcher (Jan 10, 2021)

You can buy simple gold (acid) testing kits,or make your own, a gold buyer will have these and could do the tests for you.

You can scratch the suspect bar on a stone and adding a drop of nitric acid to the scratch mark.
Most jewelers or gold buyers will use this or other tests with acids to dissolve base metals, any gold or less reactive metals involved in the scratch mark will remain.

The drop of nitric or (a drop of another acid combination of dilute to strong aqua regia testing solution) can be used along with a known karat of gold, by taking a known karat gold wire needle (or karat gold ring) making a scratch mark side by side on the slate stone, side by side with the scratch mark from the unknown suspect bar being tested, using acid (aqua regia testing solutions made of different strengths) to determine Karat or percentage of gold...

Sure some wells can have gold, and it is possible to have some gold in a filter, I just have a hard time seeing this much gold from a well or in a filter from a well.

I do not know what type or kind of well or what type of filter system is being discussed, so is it possible to be pumping gold with the water, yes is possible, being probable becomes more questionable and (most likely not likely), the density of gold would normally make it more difficult to pump gold than silt and sands...

with just a couple of pictures of what appears to me to be some gravel and sand, then seeing a large bar that looks to be brass or another yellow metal like gold, and from what I have seen from a couple of pictures so far it just seems fishy to me to be able to pull that much gold from a well, I would need a little more to go by before I can see it possible.

In some areas, beach sands and waves can concentrate gold. and that could make this a more likely scenario than pumping gold out of a well. 
I would just like to know more, before becoming a believer.


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## jmdlcar (Jan 10, 2021)

Since I'm retired now and if I lived close to Long Beach, Washington I would do a lot of panning for Gold if they would let me do it and I would have a Metal Detector. I guest there is a lot of other doing it to.


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 10, 2021)

I'll take individual flake pics. They were small. And again it doesn't pan like gold. There is blond sand and very very little black sand. When panning gold it takes work to seperate black sand. When panning this it takes work to get out rocks and blond sand. When I melted it there was alot of dross. Again jewelers acid test, 14k line disappears right away, 10k solution line slowly fades away over 30 sec. I did forget to say that the 10k on bar turned green after 1 min. But I was playing with a bit more last night and tried to do my best to seperate through melt points. Did a scratch test on that and I have brown in a spot, one that takes 1 min to turn green and 2min to turn green, and one that turned slight real. So nickle, and copper. And most likely low karat gold.


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## goldenchild (Jan 10, 2021)

If you have testing acid you could always take a tiny piece of a bar and put it in a test tube. Then add some 24k acid and 10k acid to dissolve the piece. Then do a stannous test. At least you'll confirm you have gold.


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 10, 2021)

I will do test on pieces. ordered stannous test bottle. should be here in a few days. I know I could just make it but, I'm in no hurry. should be here on the 16th. Will let you all know then. till then thank you for the feed back all. In the mean time I will be reading Hoke book. :? ... P.S. when i say it was already panned once. its hard because of the impurity's. And my little ones did alot of panning at the start.


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## jimdoc (Jan 10, 2021)

Where did you order stannous test bottle from? It has a shelf life, so you are best making your own. Do you have a known gold solution to test what you ordered, to make sure it's good?


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## jmdlcar (Jan 10, 2021)

I order my test kit from here.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-Silver-Testing-Acid-Tester-Kit-14k-silver-Testing-Scratch-Stone/352618264108?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


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## GoldmoreGold (Jan 10, 2021)

Hi SCW,
Those bit's on your finger look like what you find in a gear box with some bronze parts that's failing. Could the well driller have hit an old bronze gear that's buried or maybe a cache of old bronze coins?!. What sort of pump do you have, some have bronze housings and or impellers maybe it's failing?. Anyway good luck and hope you find some gold in there!.


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 11, 2021)

I have some 18k to test, it's not fillings from my pump. We had the well drilled, I've only had to change out pressure switch. And one small galvanized nipple. Nothing to account for over 10 pounds of metal. I ordered stannous on the 4th this month, said shipped 6th. And aware of shelf life. And not happy with the slow shipping. But will test it to make sure it works first.


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## nickvc (Jan 11, 2021)

While an assay may well be more accurate a simple xrf reading should give us all the metals in the bar including base metals, once we know that advice can be given from a simple one acid process to a more involved selection of acids and processes.
If the bar is mainly copper a small piece or some drilling’s in a test tube and a little nitric should give us a good idea if there is gold there, this will mean there will be nox fumes but if done outside with the wind behind it should be safe and only emit small amounts of fumes.


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## g_axelsson (Jan 11, 2021)

You haven't measured the density yet? Why not?

Just as Nick is saying, an XRF would give a list of base metals in the bars. Some metals doesn't appear in natural occurring gold. For example nickel have a different chemistry while silver and copper often follows gold. Zinc is also common in copper alloys but too reactive to be part of any naturally occurring alloys.

Gold test solution on the lower end is just diluted nitric acid. If it totally remove the streak there are only base metals there. You should have some particles of gold floating around in the acid.

You could dissolve some of the bars in nitric acid. When the acid is spent you would have any gold from the alloy floating around in the liquid. If you let it stand for a day or more it will settle on the bottom of the beaker as a black mud. The top layer can be poured off gently to not disturb the sediment. If you have the beaker standing tilted most of it will collect in the lowest part.

You could wash it with some water one or two times and you should have a small amount of pale blue solution with the sediments.

If you now add a bit of hydrochloric acid to the mud it will form a weak aqua regia and dissolve the mud. There will probably be enough nitrates left to totally dissolve the mud. Now any gold in it is in solution and you could test it with stannous chloride.

And for the solution you poured off you should add a bit of sodium chloride (a saturated salt solution) or hydrochloric acid. If there is silver in the bar you should get an instant white cloud of silver chloride. Silver and copper is the two metals that follows gold around as an alloy.

This is my redneck way of testing the bars, it will tell you if there is a bit of silver and gold in it but it won't tell you how much. If you go all the way and turn the gold and silver chloride back into metal then you could weigh the result and how much lighter the bar became and that way calculate the composition.

Göran


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## SCW_Summoner (Jan 20, 2021)

Sorry for the long wait, Stannous hasn't arrived. Took a small bar to Portland and had an xrf read on it. Results were 85 percent copper, 12 percent zinc, 1 percent iron, and 2 unknowns at 1 percent each. It's not a hundred percent accurate but no gold or not enough to register on their reader. As it came up with 2 unknowns. So in the end, not rich, but happy, now I can start my crafting with no worries of precious metals. Thank you all for the info, support and patience.


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## GoldmoreGold (Jan 20, 2021)

That's too bad on the results but still interesting. The only things I can think if that could make chips like that is the well driller(maybe his mud pump or if he hit something) or a water pump in use at some point that went bad.  .


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## g_axelsson (Jan 23, 2021)

The zinc is a dead giveaway. It is so reactive that it never comes in metallic form from natural sources. Whatever the source of all your metallic shavings is, it's a man made object.

Too bad it wasn't gold but on the positive side you have really learned how to pan for gold and now you don't have to chase some non-existent gold and make a chemical mess on the way.
Too many people get their mind set on gold, never listen on advice and spend a lot of money, time and health chasing something that's not there. Good to hear that at least some people is cold-headed enough to listen to advice. It makes it worth spending my time here giving out advice.

Thanks for letting us know. Always nice when we get the whole story and not only the beginning.

Göran


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## galenrog (Jan 23, 2021)

Received a few replies from the inquiries I sent out a few weeks ago. Consensus was that you did not hit gold. A historical note that was added, but unverified, is that there were many machine shops in your area just a few decades ago. Some in very out of the way places. You may have hit upon a spot where a machinist dumped brass turnings. 

Again, this is a consensus of the few replies I received. I have no evidence in my files to support local machinists dumping turnings, but it could fit with the XRF readings. A look at you property history may turn up something.

Time for more coffee.


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