# LazerSteves wounderful Cell



## ThePierCer (Mar 15, 2007)

{me doing the happy dance}

I just did my first test batch using Steves Cell, and all I have to say is THANK YOU!!! The only thing I did different was I used Surgical SS Piercing forcepts for my Anode, and it seemed to work well.

I did about 3/4 of a pound of gold plated jewelry; watch bands, cufflinks, broches, ect and now have a big pile of completely stripped jewelry. And a solution of thick black gooo in my container. I'm hoping the "goo" is gold, i'll have top go back and read over the posts to make sure.

Has an yone else used the cell, and what kind of luck have you had so far?


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## Noxx (Mar 15, 2007)

I never used it but I'm sure it works. Yes, if you have black «goo» it's gold. Just filter it like Steve said.
Steve is doing pretty good tutorial right ?


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## sandhog (Mar 15, 2007)

I have used a cell similar to Steve's and they do work. Just remember before you filter to dilute the mixture first then let it sit for 24 hrs. so all of the gold settles to the bottom.

Good luck 

-Bill


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## ThePierCer (Mar 15, 2007)

those tutorials are awesome..... I've learned so much from him. He is definately and asset to this forum.


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## ThePierCer (Mar 15, 2007)

thanks bill, i was kinda woundering how i was going to get it out. the mixture is so thick to begin with. Should i just add a few qts of water, let it sit and have everything seperate? That seems the most logical way.


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## Noxx (Mar 15, 2007)

Yes you're right. I appreciate it really much.


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## sandhog (Mar 15, 2007)

I pour all of the cell's contents into a large pitcher and then I add some more water to the empty cell to rinse out any leftover gold. I dump that into the pitcher then I add about 2 cups of water to the pitcher. I let it settle for 24 hours, then I filter it using 3-4 coffee filters.

-Bill


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## lazersteve (Mar 15, 2007)

Piercer,

The cell is not my own creation but the tutorials are. 

Here's a note about any acid water mixtures, ALWAYS add the acid to the water not vice versa! 

You shouldn't jump the gun and filter right away. There isn't as much gold as it looks like because it's all fluffy in the solution. I usually run the cell for 12-24 hours of operating time before filtering. It just saves acid this way. I'm preparing a filtering video tomorrow for the forum.

Here's a quick what to do:

Your pitcher will melt if you don't do this slowly. I recommend placing the pitcher in a large wash tub in case it melts!

Add 6 cups of water to a gallon pitcher.





SLOWLY add 1/2 of the cell contents to the pitcher, THIS gets hot very quickly so take your time! Add 2 more cups of water to the pitcher to speed the cooling process.

Let the pitcher cool.

SLOWLY add the remaining liquid from the cell. Letting the pitcher cool periodically.

Rinse the cell into the pitcher with one cup of distilled water.

Rinse the cell into the pitcher with another cup of distilled water.





Let the pitcher settle overnight.

Steve


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## ThePierCer (Mar 15, 2007)

i was planning on useing this acid until it was as saturated as i could get, then wash and filter. At least I know now what to do when it's time.


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## PRECIOUS METALS (Mar 18, 2007)

hey steve if you use a Buchner Filter Funnel you dont have to leave it over night


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## Noxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Why would you let it overnight ? If you vacuum filter it, you will get the powder without any leftover liquid. Thats great and could be fired.


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## lazersteve (Mar 18, 2007)

Vaccuum filtration can speed the filtering, be sure the mix is cooled down before filtering. Wash with plenty of distilled when filtering. The filter should be clean and white where exposed not blue or green tinted.


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## PRECIOUS METALS (Mar 20, 2007)

what would blue and green do to it


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## Noxx (Mar 20, 2007)

Aqua Regia or Nitric Acid will turn blue when it dissolves copper. And green when there is many base metals...


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## ThePierCer (Mar 20, 2007)

Noxx, what do you use to drop the copper out of the Nirtic?


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## lazersteve (Mar 20, 2007)

Check the Activity Series chart I posted here:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=487&highlight=#487
Try iron (Fe) you'll end up with powdered copper metal and ferric nitrate dissolved in solution with a clear red color.

Be sure to check your MSDS before doing this.


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## rainmaker (Apr 23, 2007)

Place the pitcher in a tub partly filled with cold water. The water will act as a heat sink and also dilute the acid if you do have an accident. Just a suggestion. SAFETY FIRST. 

Gary


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## AuMINIMayhem (Apr 25, 2007)

ThePierCer said:


> those tutorials are awesome..... I've learned so much from him. He is definately and asset to this forum.



I'll definatelly second that!  

Here's a question though (actually I have two questions).

1) What does it mean if the color is not green or blue, but rather very "grape koolaid" purple? (I must admit here that I jumped the gun and used tap water.. DOH! :shock: :shock: ) Definately will use distilled for the rest of the cell. 

Here's what I did. I filled a Mason jar with tap water and rinsed them off in that (jewelery scrap, mostly bangle bracelets) before discarding the de-plated stuff to my "hold on to it just in case there's more to recover" pile. It was just a very quick solution to washing off the "suds" from the liquid lightning" (damn those buffers!) Just rinsing off the jewelery scrap I notied there was a good bit of precipitates in the jar, so I decided to filter that off and wound up with a very thick, black deposit left on the coffee filters. (I have distilled to use for when I clean out the cell, I just wasn't anticipating precips from rinsing it off).

and the number two question..

I was contemplating building a setup using a five gallon bucket, some pvc and a Brita water filter with a plastic drain/tap at the bottom of it. Has anyone tried using a water filter like that instead of coffee filters and a vaccumm? Any successes or issues? .. seems like a decent enough idea. If no one has tried it, I'll take a stab at it and if it works out I'll post schematics and share how I did it, provided it proves a succesful design.

Thanks,
Derek


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## toadiesop (Apr 25, 2007)

I don't know about the brita filter idea but I too use liquid lightning and I get A LOT of black in my rinse too. I was amazed the first time I filtered it.

So ALWAYS filter your rinse water, especially if you use Liquid Lightning. (I know I pointed a lot people to Wal-Mart to buy it)


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 25, 2007)

AuMINIMayem,

Is the purple color in the strong cell sulfuric or in the diluted sulfuric and rinses? I've seen the purple color in both but more often in the diluted sulfuric. Unless you have cobalt or manganese present, which I doubt, it is most likely colloidal gold. It takes only a minute quantity of gold to create this color. It may or may not settle. They have discovered colloidal gold solutions in Egyptian tombs that still haven't settled. Colloidal gold is made up of very small particles that are in between being a solid and being dissolved. You can sometimes make the colloid particles combine and settle by heating the diluted solution but, I don't think I would worry about it. There probably isn't enough there to even weigh. Sometimes, you can waste a lot of time, energy, and money getting that last tenth of a percent.


Steve,

Forgive me, but I can't chemically see the purpose of using distilled water in the dilution. In this, as in most cases, tap water would seem to perfectly suffice. I only use distilled water on one occasion: When I am dissolving silver in nitric acid. In this case, tap water, which contains chlorine precipitates out silver chloride. This creates a white cloud which make the reaction difficult to observe and also can cause losses of silver.

Did you have something else in mind that I haven't considered?


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## AuMINIMayhem (Apr 25, 2007)

toadiesop said:


> I don't know about the brita filter idea but I too use liquid lightning and I get A LOT of black in my rinse too. I was amazed the first time I filtered it.
> 
> So ALWAYS filter your rinse water, especially if you use Liquid Lightning. (I know I pointed a lot people to Wal-Mart to buy it)



So, is it specifically a "Liquid ligthing" thing, or is there gold in them thar rinses? Have you checked them out and if so are you having good results? I'm wondering if because of the "sudsing action" it's causing more of the gold to cling to the scrap I'm stripping and when I go to rinse it off, that's when it's finally dropping off. 

goldsilver, the reason I believe Steve is recommending distilled water is to eliminate the "naturally occuring" phenom of metals and minerals in the tap water. I'm actually wondering if there is something in my tap wter that reacted with the sulfuric acid that gave me the very deep purple hue I'm seeing rather than the amber color others have described. I did notice that after filtering the water/sulfuric acid solution became very clear and a very light amber color leaving what appears all of the black and purple behind in the filters. I think he's just trying to keep from adding that additional "contamination". 

Steve, feel free to correct me if I'm out of bounds for taking a guess about this.


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## darkelf2x1 (Apr 25, 2007)

to avoid any contamination?


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## lazersteve (Apr 25, 2007)

Chris, 

Generally either will work fine, but in an effort to maintain consistant, repeatable results for everyone, I will always specify distilled to be on the safe side. I've seen tap water that will leave a ring of rust in the tub! :lol: Point is you never know what some peoples taps are putting out. If they are on the city water system everything should go smoothly, but some of our members may live out in the boon docks and have a well feeding their water supply. You never know.

I personally have used both with equal success, but I'm on the city water system.

Steve


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## AuMINIMayhem (Apr 25, 2007)

I have city water as well.. of course.. it is of questionable nature..  I'm wondering if some of the stuff they add to it can muck up results, such as fluoride, chlorine, etc?..


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 25, 2007)

AuMINIMayhem,

Please reread my last post. I edited it and, by the time I posted, 4 or 5 other posts had already been made.

I think my colloidal gold analysis was correct and I think it would have occurred upon dilution no matter what kind of water you used. Much of my early work on this system was done in a lab using distilled water and, I still got the purple color. Sometimes it occurs and sometimes it doesn't. I think there is something else in play that makes it happen. The purple particles happened to filter out. They were probably collected by the larger black gold particles.

I've recently noticed a bad quality that I possess. When I run out of big things to write, I start finding little picky things, just to have something to do. Case in point - the distilled water. Sorry guys, I mean well.


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## AuMINIMayhem (Apr 25, 2007)

goldsilverpro said:


> AuMINIMayem,
> 
> Is the purple color in the strong cell sulfuric or in the diluted sulfuric and rinses? I've seen the purple color in both but more often in the diluted sulfuric. Unless you have cobalt or manganese present, which I doubt, it is most likely colloidal gold. It takes only a minute quantity of gold to create this color. It may or may not settle.



Yep, yep yep.. that's exactly what I'm seeing, can't tell if it's in the strong cell because it's so dark after a couple runs anyways, but definately in the rinses. Oddly enough, I rebuilt the cell (my old lady was p---'ed when she saw I used "HER" prex..LOL!). This time, not so much although everything else was the same, same product, same scrap, same cathode, same tap water.. only this time I did a LOT more scrap before filtering.. I also noticed that with the new rinses the purple actually got filtered out. 

Maybe someone else could confirm this for me, but it is cerainly proving a fact for me that the "dirtier" the solution being filtered, the better job the filter does. Last time, the water was as purple coming out as it was going in. This time it came out damn near clear not to mention less of the purple being present. Could this alleged "colloidal gold" be dropping out as a solid precip because the cell is super saturated this time? Is there a "critical mass" point that needs to be reached before the gold begins to drop out as a precip?...Just a thought.

Thanks,
Derek


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 25, 2007)

Read my last post, again. When editing, I always seem to be at least one post behind.


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## AuMINIMayhem (Apr 25, 2007)

goldsilverpro said:


> I've recently noticed a bad quality that I possess. When I run out of big things to write, I start finding little picky things, just to have something to do. Case in point - the distilled water. Sorry guys, I mean well.



There's nothing bad about hashing over details.. sometimes it can lead to discovery, especially when you have more than one person at varying levels of experience looking at it.. it's funny how that works. I always enjoy a healthy "brainstorming" session or debate.. I try to never walk away without at least having learned one thing.. 8)


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## lazersteve (Apr 25, 2007)

Mayhem,

That is an excellent quality! I only wish everyone could be so enthusiastic!


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## AuMINIMayhem (Apr 25, 2007)

Hey, thanks man.  yeah, I'm one of those nut-jobs that doesn't just take a casual interest in anything.. if it gets my attention it gets my undivided attention. I don't know, I just like what I like, I guess. 

The only hard part about when I take an interest in something like this is, I don't come with the hard formal education (some college, not much though) to understand the mechanics of how everything is working. Then again it's a good thing, for instance, when I see chemical formulas being listed on here, it's made me crack out the old books or do some research and try to relearn some basic chemistry, just so I can get up to speed and follow along. (haven't had chem since high school, forgot pretty much all of it by now, :shock: HA HA!)


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## Harold_V (Apr 26, 2007)

goldsilverpro said:


> I've recently noticed a bad quality that I possess. When I run out of big things to write, I start finding little picky things, just to have something to do. Case in point - the distilled water. Sorry guys, I mean well.



Well, it may be annoying to some, but I, too, comment on the use of tap water in place of distilled water. I can't see any reason for distilled water with rare exception, making nitrate of silver being one of them, but even then only for testing purposes, or for electrolyte. 

While it makes no difference that distilled water is used, it's a waste of money. I ran my own still, so I always had pure water at my disposal, and I still didn't use it. Fact is, you're doing these guys a service by reminding them that tap water is perfectly acceptable. 

Harold


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## AuMINIMayhem (Apr 27, 2007)

Harold_V said:


> goldsilverpro said:
> 
> 
> > I've recently noticed a bad quality that I possess. When I run out of big things to write, I start finding little picky things, just to have something to do. Case in point - the distilled water. Sorry guys, I mean well.
> ...



I've been thinking about this debate for a couple of days now. I don't want to take sides or create hostility or what-have-you, I'm only going to put my couple of cents in and defend Steve for the following reason(s).

After reading many of his posts and watching his tutorials, I feel that Steve is a hobbyist who's goal is "refining" his gold to the highest quality he can. That's part of his goal and with us hobbyists, we all know that we put more money into it than we gain out of it (whatever hobby) at least 95% of the time. 

Going on this train of thought, I can completely understand the use of distilled vs tap water. Moreover, if the ultimate goal is "refining" rather than "reclaiming" or "recovery", I find it difficult to justify cutting corners (and costs) to introduce an unknown variable into the process by using tap water. 

So, in short (too late :lol: ) while we all agree that tap water is suitable for this, I can understand why the emphasis would be placed on distilled water _*IF*_ the user's ultimate goal is pushing the envelope and challenge themselves to a refinement of the highest quality gold within the limitations of the average hobbyist.

Again, I'm not trying to create rifts.. I just enjoy a good debate. 

Being a newbie this sight has proven to be an extremely valuable resource. You guys are all great! 

Derek


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## Harold_V (Apr 27, 2007)

AuMINIMayhem said:


> I find it difficult to justify cutting corners (and costs) to introduce an unknown variable into the process by using tap water.



In the spirit you discussed, where this subject needs airing, perhaps you can inform us what these unknown variables might be? 

Before you respond, consider a few things. 

If you add a few clean marbles to your gold chloride solution, will you have contaminated the final product?

If you introduce a bar of titanium to your gold chloride solution, assuming it is clean, will you have contaminated the final product? 

If you introduce a few grains of table salt to your gold chloride solution, will you have contaminated the final product? 

Some elements do not contaminate gold, even when they're in the system. Oxygen, for one. 

Unless your water contains heavy metals, it's unlikely it will have an effect on your final product, one way or the other. 

While using distilled water does no harm, its akin to washing your car, waxing it, then washing it and waxing it again. No harm----just not necessary. 

All depends on what's in your water, doesn't it? 

No, chlorine isn't a problem, not unless you're processing silver. Aren't you already adding chlorine in refining gold?

You can argue the point all day, even on a friendly basis, but when the smoke cleans, you don't need distilled water for gold processing. 

Harold


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 27, 2007)

I agree with Harold. Even iron in well water will come out in the wash. Most contamination comes from what you do or don't do after you dissolve the gold.


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## AuMINIMayhem (Apr 27, 2007)

heyyyy... easy killer.. 

perhaps, I overstated my point.. my point is simply if you're trying to make the best cup of coffee ever, why not start off with a clean pot and clean water.. can't hurt.. can it?..

trust me, I feel ya on this, I do.. just trying to be objective about it.. 

We (the "newbies" you previously stated that you were trying to keep from wasting time and money) all understand you don't have to use it.. but I also understand the "starting with a clean slate" line of thinking.. perhaps I just work with too many engineers.. :lol: 

at any rate, it's cool, man.. Steve's tutorials are VERY insightful and extremely helpful..


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## AuMINIMayhem (Apr 27, 2007)

Harold_V said:


> All depends on what's in your water, doesn't it?
> Harold



just read your post again.. Isn't this exaclty what I was saying?.. :?


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## lazersteve (Apr 27, 2007)

To make everyone here happy, from this point on let's all agree to just use the word 'water' when we are talking about H2O. That way we can leave it up to the member doing the experiment to decide whether they will use distilled or tap, agreed?

Should I go back and edit the word 'distilled' out of all of my videos and posts?


Steve


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## Fever (Apr 27, 2007)

Instead of using H20, tap or distilled, why not try H3O? Just be ready for massive hair loss..... :lol:  

Fever


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## Noxx (Apr 27, 2007)

LoL ! I think if we do that, most new members will be terribly lost...


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## Fever (Apr 27, 2007)

Noxx- I was just cracking a little joke. H30 is "Heavy Water" used in nuclear fission reactors. I don't think we really want to mess with that stuff!  

Sorry for the confusion....

Fever


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## Noxx (Apr 27, 2007)

I know if was a joke... Me too I was. I'm wondering what heavy water could change in a normal refining precess


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