# Welsh gold assay



## Waulespan (Apr 2, 2011)

Hello, this is my first post. I hope that my picture of over two ounces of nuggets and flakes from a Welsh river is properly uploaded here.

I had all but the largest 18 assayed by the Birmingham Assay Office, a total of 49.2 grams was submitted. Weight of bar after melting was 47.9. The bar or button produced is the first of its kind, no other panner has had a full mineral analysis of any gold from Wales. It is not refined as such, and the Assay Office experts advised me that it is possible to make jewellery without refining, if the correct procedure is used. This would make the first fully assayed pure unrefined Welsh gold jewellery ever. Until now, panners have sold their Welsh gold to a few middlemen, and the goldsmiths who buy it massively dilute it with silver and copper, so it is impossible to prove that their sources are genuinely Welsh. 

My first assay shows 34 elements, which provides a unique signature for the gold in this area of North Wales. AU = 91.53%, AG = 8.0%. A company which had a prospecting licence some years ago had a similar assay carried out, but this is not available to the public. I will be happy to copy the full analysis to any interested members here.

I formed a new charity, Gold Rivers Trust, to help promote a better understanding of gold panning, create a mineral database and raise funds for charitable purposes.

I would welcome comments about whether our jewellery should contain 100% pure Welsh unrefined gold (including the other 33 elements), or if it should be fully refined and diluted to 18 or 9 ct. 

Gold Rivers Trust is also negotiating with several landowners in Wales with a view to setting up a geological study centre for use by Universities, schools and other institutions.

Brian Wright Treasurer Gold Rivers Trust

Nuggets and flakes March 2009 - March 2010

Line Weight by grams

1. 4.3 3.3 3.0 1.5 1.3 1.3

2. 0.9 0.9 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.7 0.7

3. 0.6 0.5 0.5 0.5 0.5

4. 11 x 0.4s

5. 14 x 0.3s

6&7 33 x 0.2s

8&9 36 x 0.1s

10-16 102 x 0.075 average


----------



## shyknee (Apr 2, 2011)

i like the color (deep, rich) do you have a photo of the bar ,that would be magnificent.
and is there nickel as an element, or lead?
Rolling may be a problem ? it may cast well? Have you tried ?


----------



## Waulespan (Apr 2, 2011)

shyknee said:


> i like the color (deep, rich) do you have a photo of the bar ,that would be magnificent.
> and is there nickel as an element, or lead?
> Rolling may be a problem ? it may cast well? Have you tried ?



Hello Shyknee

Yes, this is the natural colour, I don't clean them with salt and vinegar like some prospectors. These nuggets and flakes were buried in the placer hardpack for hundreds, if not thousands of years, until the river was diverted by a fallen tree and eroded part of the bank into the river.

Here are pictures of the obverse and reverse of the button.

I will include the full mineralogical analysis in my next post.


----------



## Waulespan (Apr 2, 2011)

Here are the first two pages of the assay report. I have covered the recipient address as it is my partner's as well.


----------



## sebastionay (Apr 4, 2011)

How long did it take you to collect them? I'm also from Wales.


----------



## kadriver (Apr 5, 2011)

Wow - those nuggets look good the way you have them arranged.

I did not know that silver happens naturally in gold nuggets.

Thanks for these great photos - kadriver


----------



## Harold_V (Apr 5, 2011)

kadriver said:


> Wow - those nuggets look good the way you have them arranged.
> 
> I did not know that silver happens naturally in gold nuggets.
> 
> Thanks for these great photos - kadriver


Silver is the most common second element in nuggets.

Harold


----------



## Waulespan (Apr 6, 2011)

Glad to share pictures of wild Welsh beauty with you good people.
It took me about 14 weeks off and on from March 2009 - April 2010 to collect these and the smaller flakes not shown from this one river. However, I have been prospecting in many other rivers and streams since last April, and I have found good prospecting streams which others appear to have missed by official surveys and panners. Now I'm trying to buy some private land to set up a study centre for Gold Rivers Trust, for use by members and geology students. I have made progress in my campaign to establish that river gold is neither owned by the Crown or by landowners. There appears to be a loophole in British law which makes gold in rivers like picking blackberries, if you can find these precious little fruits. 
I'll be happy to help other brave prospective prospectors to get involved, as I have had to give up on most of the panners I used to work with. Gold fever, jealousy, fear of officialdom and lack of commitment seem to have put off all my old mates. Fresh young blood needed to shift the boulders please!


----------



## sebastionay (Apr 6, 2011)

Well im Living in Liverpool now but defenately interested.


----------



## barkers (Apr 25, 2011)

Hi Brian

Im afaid your not the only one to have done this!

Also you didnt post the third page so I dont know but this looks like a normal assay and not a finger print !

It will not be the first fully assayed pure unrefined welsh jewellerey either !,im sure Birmingham told you to cuppel the gold first to remove the nasties like Bismuth and lead aswell

Finally how did Birmingham confirm the origin of the Welsh gold, where did they get the fingerprint database from.


----------



## Dan72ccx (Apr 25, 2011)

Hi
Hia is my Welsh gold and i hawe nice nuget of 9gr Welsh gold :lol: 
I am from Liverpool and my English not good


----------



## Dan72ccx (Apr 25, 2011)

Glad to share pictures of wild Welsh beauty with you good people.
It took me about 14 weeks off and on from March 2009 - April 2010 to collect these and the smaller flakes not shown from this one river. However, I have been prospecting in many other rivers and streams since last April, and I have found good prospecting streams which others appear to have missed by official surveys and panners. Now I'm trying to buy some private land to set up a study centre for Gold Rivers Trust, for use by members and geology students. I have made progress in my campaign to establish that river gold is neither owned by the Crown or by landowners. There appears to be a loophole in British law which makes gold in rivers like picking blackberries, if you can find these precious little fruits.
I'll be happy to help other brave prospective prospectors to get involved, as I have had to give up on most of the panners I used to work with. Gold fever, jealousy, fear of officialdom and lack of commitment seem to have put off all my old mates. Fresh young blood needed to shift the boulders please!
Hi Brain
I am defenately interested.


----------



## ay_mickey (Apr 28, 2011)

dont get sucked in to this as he is TROUBLE , he has closed North wales down to hobby panners, with his antics , Brian you was told to move else were but you didnt, and you have riund it for me and otheres, , if we dont get back to panning in north wales other than sneaking around i will not be happy, , and iv heard theres a price on your head, your only making trouble for your self, 
you have been panning other rivers but like every panner , always go back to the one place you found the most, even tho theres many rivers with gold in, but you have gold fever, , deni it as much as you want, you are sick in your head, 
you think your doing right for everyone , but the boot is just one sided, your way
theres places all around the UK that are doing excactly what your planning to do and LEEDs universaty you can do a degree, i think you should spend your money doing your degree before you do anything else then you will have access to everything 
you was born in irland why not go back there to get the gold , cause your worried some one will do you in, 
dan if your the mearcat this is irish brian, aka brian Buro that has being calling your friend kit a lier , and the the BGA are trying to get panning back in north wales and brian just makes trouble for us all,
oh and brian i know Dave McCracken, and he thinks your a prized Nugget for causeing all this trouble in north wales , and he said you should be avoided, 
, 
the above info is haysay and bo threats were made directly !!


----------



## ay_mickey (Apr 28, 2011)

Waulespan said:


> I'll be happy to help other brave prospective prospectors to get involved, as I have had to give up on most of the panners I used to work with. Gold fever, jealousy, fear of officialdom and lack of commitment seem to have put off all my old mates. Fresh young blood needed to shift the boulders please!



every one gave up on you brian ! you are Trouble, the panners never had a problem in wales for years till you came along and ruind it for every one, brian doesnt like working alone, he likes company, yes to move the bolders then he gets to bedrock were the larger gold is, but by that time you have gone home, thats why no one works with him he is very selfish, 

i can garentee he will say im jealous of him throw what iv put, 
but im not driven by gold, gold is every were, you just have to find it, thats the fun of panning/prospecting 
brian Has Gold Fever, and he doesnt care what trouble he causes to get it aslong as he gets it, 
you guys know what the fever does to people so be warned for your own good leave him be !!!!

nice pic there you did well for 2years panning, lucky you havent got anything else to do with your time like the rest of us !!!


----------



## Dan72ccx (Apr 29, 2011)

ay_mickey who are you ?  if you know me, yes it is Dan :mrgreen:


----------



## Waulespan (May 29, 2011)

barkers said:


> Hi Brian
> 
> Im afaid your not the only one to have done this!
> 
> ...



Your ill-thought questions indicate that you don't appear know what are you talking about! Firstly, if you remove all of the impurities, like traces of all other minerals, including lead (hardly a nastie at the minute levels present), then it isn't pure unrefined gold! To date, all gold from the Dolgellau gold belt has been refined to 99.95 fines and then to 18ct and 9ct. So, by definition all Welsh jewellery has been refined and by necessity mixed with non Welsh base metals.

Actually, the entire process was carried out by the assay office. They told me this was the first time they had done this for a panner. What exactly do you mean by a 'fingerprint'? Are you referring to the Electron Microscope Scan? This gives only limited and general data on purity, from the small polished area used to take the sample. The full mineral assay is a destructive test.

OK Barkely, how detailed was the so called 'fingerprint' by Cambrian Goldfields (which is what I assume you are relying upon) and what process was used? Was it a full mineral destructive test, or merely the EMS? And how was their fingerprint proved to be Welsh? 
As far as I know it wasn't a gold/lead isotope test, the most reliable method. Even if it was, it would need to be cross-checked to be scientificially reliable.

The assay office cannot confirm the Welsh origin of any gold, that is not in their remit. Panners with the real thing need to co-operate and scientificially cross-check their real Welsh gold to prove genuine provenance. 
As you know one company claims to use a touch, another says it uses gold from panners, but customers have no way of knowing if they are being conned.


----------



## Waulespan (May 29, 2011)

Dan72ccx said:


> ay_mickey who are you ?  if you know me, yes it is Dan :mrgreen:



Hi Dan. You from Kiev? Mick is probably Goldfinger, having yet another rant. Romps told me he is 'mad as a box of frogs'. Trouble is, others may take him seriously and be scared off.
He is joining in with various others who are trying to scapegoat me, as if the CCW, FC, EA and police had to ban everyone from Wales just to stop me. He is repeating all kinds of unfounded allegations against me which the BGA supported, and got themselves banned. There have been complaints for years against guys like Manicminer, working in private areas without permission. As a greenhorn, I came along just as the authorities were planning to clamp down on panning on the Mawddach and Wen. 
I have proved that their allegations against panning, killing mussels, otters, fish etc were unfounded. However, it was obviously convenient for them to pick on one guy, ie me, working innocently in the open rather than against all of the selfish guys working in the hidden spots, digging out banks etc. It is well known that I didn't do any such damage. 
I don't need to work on the Wen now anyhow, as I have good private spots in mid Wales. I won't be inviting guys like Mick as their favourite part of the hobby is spreading misinformation. 
However, Dan, I'm happy to invite you to one of my new spots in the summer so you can snipe or dig. Plenty of room.


----------



## barkers (Jun 10, 2011)

Waulespan said:


> Dan72ccx said:
> 
> 
> > ay_mickey who are you ?  if you know me, yes it is Dan :mrgreen:
> ...



Mick Might be a bit mad at times but everyone accepts him. Thats because he doesn't lie through his arse all the time and name drop everyone else to cause problems.

If your going to lie all the time and blame every one else, start using a dicterphone it will help you remember what you said last week. Oh and i see your posts on Aditnow and numerous other sites around the world are being met with the same reaction. We are all fed up with you.

p.s Mick i dont think your mad :| :| :lol:


----------



## martyn111 (Jun 10, 2011)

barkers said:


> p.s Mick i dont think your mad :| :| :lol:



I think you're mad Mick, but at least you're harmless :lol:


----------



## Manicminer (Jun 10, 2011)

Waulespan said:


> There have been complaints for years against guys like Manicminer, working in private areas without permission.



What private areas did I work without permission? Who complained?

I have always had permission as and when needed. At one point I actually paid the FC £55 pounds a year for the permission and I had to have insurance(part of the agreement).


----------



## Manicminer (Jun 10, 2011)

Cambrian Goldfields Ltd used ICP-MS coupled with laser ablation accurate to 1 part per trillionth to fingerprint the gold in the Dolgellau area and beyond.
Samples of gold were collected from many mines in the area and from the rivers and streams. Fingerprinting samples of gold every 100 yards up the rivers gave multiple sources for the gold ie not 1 vein. Historic samples were also used from museums and even some artefacts from said museums were sampled to see if they were of Welsh origin.
A substantial database was compiled over many years.


----------



## Waulespan (Jul 15, 2011)

Ok, great news. Was John Mason the geologist and was a university lab involved? Where can the database be studied, or is it private? I was told that it was paid for with public funds. 
However, if the gold used for jewellery was refined and mixed with ordinary silver and copper, how does that relate to the database?
I plan to make pure, unrefined Welsh gold jewellery. Your website Clogau Mine was promoting a company which claims to use an inlay of panned Welsh gold. But how on earth can that be tested in comparison to the database? It was being claimed by your company that the 'fingerprint' could be verified by an independent chemical test. Who, where, how much?
Would it not be very expensive, and damage the jewellery?
A database is only useful relative to comparible material. If it is only academic, hidden and historic, it is useless.


----------



## Waulespan (Jul 15, 2011)

Manicminer said:


> Waulespan said:
> 
> 
> > There have been complaints for years against guys like Manicminer, working in private areas without permission.
> ...



According to one oldtimer, you dug out a stretch of about 100 yards just on the other side of my dig, not so many years ago, about 100 yards above the lower Wen bridge. The oldtimer told me not to bother where you had been, because you had done a thorough job. Must have been quite a big dig. Did the FC give you permission for this, or is the oldtimer's memory exaggerating? 
Last year, your mate Barkers also told me that you and he were working just below the mine, getting grams per day. You must have shovelled and sluiced hundreds of tons of gravels. This is in a SSSI, so the FC would have had to consult CCW before giving formal permission. Sounds like the FC could be in trouble for giving you formal permission to work in a SSSI. 
As we know, the 1982 FC byelaws prohibit the digging of gravels or the taking of minerals of any kind. If the FC was to formally give you permission under the byelaws, they would have had to consult the freehold owner of the mineral rights. We now know that the Crown Estate have no claim since 1969 on any kind of gold, except on Crown Estate lands. 
The sad thing is that if you hadn't asked for permission you could possibly have claimed mineral rights by long usage. As we also now know, digging and sluicing impacted gravels, even in a SSSI river, can actually improve the river environment for fish. I know that CCW don't like this thesis, but they were unable to prove that my dig did any damage whatsoever, despite extensive testing. 
Now, if you were operating, as you told me privately that you were, under your exploration licence for the Gwynfynnd mine, which expired last year I think, you had no right to actually mine the river under this licence. In your own dealings with the Crown Estate, which in my view has no right to issue such licences on non Crown Estate lands, you would have needed a mining licence to mine the river. You accused me of mining the Wen, remember?
So, what is it to be? Were you only doing some leisure panning, and, if so, why did you need insurance for that? No, you were conducting a commercial panning/mining operation in the river, without a mining licence, and without permission from CCW.
It may be that complaints were made about you as just one of many who were operating in the area over the past 20 years or more. The Guardians of the Mawddach for instance. They prevented the Welsh Gold King Pritchard Morgan from panning in the Mawddach in the 1890s. This is well documented. No doubt, the Guardians were unhappy with your river mining activities, whether you had valid permission from the FC or not. 
Anyhow, I will ask CCW to look into your claims. It may be that the FC is responsible for a very serious breach of SSSI legislation. They should have kept panning at an informal level. However, the FC may deny your claims, so dig out your paperwork old chum.
We should both really try to get on the same wavelength. Did your mate Barkers tell you about his stint on porridge? He should have known this would make it virtually impossible to launch a proper mining company.


----------



## Harold_V (Jul 15, 2011)

*A word of advice.* 

If the two of you continue this dog and pony show, both of you will be banned. 

I am receiving complaints. I expect they will come to an abrupt halt. 

Do not use this forum to air your dirty laundry. 

Harold


----------



## Waulespan (Jul 15, 2011)

OK Harold. Point taken.


----------

