# Royal Mint wants to start processing electronic waste.



## justinhcase (Mar 21, 2022)

Someone I am in discussions with sent me this.








Royal Mint wants to turn your old phone into gold


The Royal Mint has found a way to turn old circuit boards from phones, computers and televisions into gold.



www.bbc.co.uk




Apparently the royal mint has come up with a new solution that lets you just dump P.C.B.'s directly into it and recover a strange brown powder.
Not quite sure what to think, I always thought electronic waste was mostly about the laborious sorting of metric ton's of material in their associated grades.
Then a number of different methods could already be used.
The static separation after milling, seeming the best to recycle the fibreglass and other materials like epoxy resin for the further reuse before smelting the recovered metallic content. 
But they seem to be in the very begins of the learning curve, still trying to digest the board whole.
I was hoping they had lightened up on the WWWE legislation, but I can not see any sighs of it.
Having left Europe, I think the government may be trying to retain all that goodness within the UK rather than send it to the large smelters on the continent, having forgotten you really need a copper refiner first if you are going to process electronic waste at any scale.
And although I can find a lot of companies involved in the refinement of copper none of them seem to have a smelting plant in the UK anymore.


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## Alondro (Mar 21, 2022)

justinhcase said:


> Someone I am in discussions with sent me this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, it doesn't sound right. Either the person writing the article couldn't understand the process as it was explained, or the officials just tossed out a half-explanation because the general public would be clueless anyway, or might try to perform the refining process without any training and poison/blow up themselves. 

Gotta keep in mind, most people are IDIOTS and will vaporize half a city block if they try doing this sort of thing themselves. Might be a wise thing to not describe the complex and dangerous process to drug addicts reading the article who are just trying to find a way to pay for their next hit! We all know what happens with meth labs! KABOOM! 

But, it could be equally valid that the officials themselves don't even know how it will work. Almost none of them know a damned thing about chemistry or metallurgy, after all.


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## justinhcase (Mar 21, 2022)

Alondro said:


> Yeah, it doesn't sound right. Either the person writing the article couldn't understand the process as it was explained, or the officials just tossed out a half-explanation because the general public would be clueless anyway, or might try to perform the refining process without any training and poison/blow up themselves.
> 
> Gotta keep in mind, most people are IDIOTS and will vaporize half a city block if they try doing this sort of thing themselves. Might be a wise thing to not describe the complex and dangerous process to drug addicts reading the article who are just trying to find a way to pay for their next hit! We all know what happens with meth labs! KABOOM!
> 
> But, it could be equally valid that the officials themselves don't even know how it will work. Almost none of them know a damned thing about chemistry or metallurgy, after all.


Unfortunately, it was the same with the assay offices.
Centuries of a very protected existence given monopoly's to run for her majesty the queen.
All of a sudden put out in the cold trying to make a buck from the reputation such as it is because they can no longer make a living from the services they used to offer.


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## Alondro (Mar 21, 2022)

justinhcase said:


> Unfortunately, it was the same with the assay offices.
> Centuries of a very protected existence given monopoly's to run for her majesty the queen.
> All of a sudden put out in the cold trying to make a buck from the reputation such as it is because they can no longer make a living from the services they used to offer.


Hmm... maybe when they screw up you can buy the blocks of 'copper' they end up with on the cheap and electrowin them down for the PMs! Always take advantage of government incompetence! ;D


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## justinhcase (Mar 21, 2022)

Alondro said:


> Hmm... maybe when they screw up you can buy the blocks of 'copper' they end up with on the cheap and electrowin them down for the PMs! Always take advantage of government incompetence! ;D


With the cost of industrial electricity in my city, I am pretty sure it would bankrupt me to try and electro-win copper in any real quantity.
Need a place in the country with hydroelectric setup for that.


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## Alondro (Mar 21, 2022)

justinhcase said:


> With the cost of industrial electricity in my city, I am pretty sure it would bankrupt me to try and electro-win copper in any real quantity.
> Need a place in the country with hydroelectric setup for that.


Put a little crank generator on a stationary bike and PEDAL LIKE MAD!!! XD


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## orvi (Mar 21, 2022)

It is strange how people see the real and finely tuned chemical processes. You go to the pharmacy, buy a package of Ibuprofen or some other medication, and that´s it. Nearly no one, ordinary human, know how the drugs and pharmaceuticals are made and how ridiculously complicated and controlled their manufacture is. 
Same with the now very hot toppic of "e-vehicle batteries recyclation". Everybody judges the whole toppic from their skewed perspective without even knowing how the LiIon battery work and what is inside. Many journalists writing kilometer long essays about it without knowing how they operate and why it is extremely difficult to scavenge say lithium from them (economically).

Mainly here. We are country of "experts" on any topic existing  Man, how much I hate my nation mentality  lots of folks around here wanted to become rich from mining gold from e-waste. As soon as somebody in my proximity know that I refine gold as hobbyist, they want to do it also, without any clue of chemistry.


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## Yggdrasil (Mar 21, 2022)

justinhcase said:


> With the cost of industrial electricity in my city, I am pretty sure it would bankrupt me to try and electro-win copper in any real quantity.
> Need a place in the country with hydroelectric setup for that.


Does not matter mate. The prices of the hydroelectric power in Norway are set by the carbon taxes on the gas and coal in Europe, and the prices in Britain and EU.
So when the latest cable to UK opened the price jumped almost 10 fold


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## justinhcase (Mar 21, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Does not matter mate. The prices of the hydroelectric power in Norway are set by the carbon taxes on the gas and coal in Europe, and the prices in Britain and EU.
> So when the latest cable to UK opened the price jumped almost 10 fold


If you have an independent method of energy creation.
It might pay you better to refine metals tan sell back to your energy provider.
I am trying to work out how to redeem carbon credits for recovered meals.
So much to do, so little time to do it in.


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## Yggdrasil (Mar 21, 2022)

I consider the whole carbon credit system as an legalized scam. 
Who "owns" the credits.
Everybody pay and the money goes to where actually...

And having carbon taxes on clean hydroelectric power beats my logic.

Its an inventions to make the power companies (in Norway the government since they own about 80% of production and distribution) rich.

And a way to push the prices high enough that windpower start braking even.
Production cost for one MW in Norway is less than 10£, as consumers we have been paying at least ten times that.

Another thing is these export cables.
The Norwegian share has been paid by the population by increased distribution taxes, but the income in total will got to the companies and its million salary directors.

So I can't quite grasp the logic.
Rant over.


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## Yggdrasil (Mar 21, 2022)

justinhcase said:


> If you have an independent method of energy creation.
> It might pay you better to refine metals tan sell back to your energy provider.
> I am trying to work out how to redeem carbon credits for recovered meals.
> So much to do, so little time to do it in.


I do however agree here.
If you can find a place to produce your own electric power it may pay better to increase its value by electrorefining than selling back to the provider.
Edit misspelling.


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## galenrog (Mar 21, 2022)

I agree that producing your own power is a good option, if you are in a position to do so. One aspect of any property I look at when moving from Oregon to Texas this summer will be whether we have the potential to produce power. Combination of solar and wind to a sizeable battery bank is best, if possible.

Time for more coffee.


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## Alondro (Mar 21, 2022)

justinhcase said:


> If you have an independent method of energy creation.
> It might pay you better to refine metals tan sell back to your energy provider.
> I am trying to work out how to redeem carbon credits for recovered meals.
> So much to do, so little time to do it in.


Well everything will be awesome soon because I just perfected cold fusi- (BLAM BLAM!! Mysterious men in black suits drag Alondro away...) 

;D


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## Yggdrasil (Mar 22, 2022)

Alondro said:


> Well everything will be awesome soon because I just perfected cold fusi- (BLAM BLAM!! Mysterious men in black suits drag Alondro away...)
> 
> ;D


It don't have to be mysterious you know, a fast flowing river, a creak with some height a windy knoll or areas for Solar cells.
If you have sufficient for your needs and then some, you can use the surplus to create a higher valued product.
Quite simple, but then again not that simple, when red tape and area are dragged into the equation.
But some are lucky enough to have nature on their side.


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## nickvc (Mar 22, 2022)

I think someone has been looking at the Australian and Canadian mints with a little jealousy as they are very large refiners but they have the advantage of natural gold deposits on their doorsteps , if they do intend to recover and refine e scrap in volume they must be building some huge plant to handle 90 tons a month and can I bet that the secret solution is cyanide or cyanide based which will not recover any shielded values.


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## nwinther (Mar 22, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> It don't have to be mysterious you know, a fast flowing river, a creak with some height a windy knoll or areas for Solar cells.
> If you have sufficient for your needs and then some, you can use the surplus to create a higher valued product.
> Quite simple, but then again not that simple, when red tape and area are dragged into the equation.
> But some are lucky enough to have nature on their side.


But is energy production really that simple? For electro refining you need a steady and even supply of power, right? Not something fluctuating with the rotation of the earth, cloud cover or the wind, right?

It's my impression that the reason wind can be economical, it's because of a LOT of windmills as well as a 100% backup capacity from coal, gas or nuclear. The central plants can adjust output as the wind is blowing, providing to a large group of homes and industry.

At best, wind or solar can be a local supplement to network power, not a stand-alone solution in a modern, western home.

But maybe I'm wrong.


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## speed (Mar 22, 2022)

Electro refining seems a great way to use excess wind generation. It doesnt have to run constantly.


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## nwinther (Mar 22, 2022)

Alondro said:


> Yeah, it doesn't sound right. Either the person writing the article couldn't understand the process as it was explained, or the officials just tossed out a half-explanation because the general public would be clueless anyway, or might try to perform the refining process without any training and poison/blow up themselves.
> 
> Gotta keep in mind, most people are IDIOTS and will vaporize half a city block if they try doing this sort of thing themselves. Might be a wise thing to not describe the complex and dangerous process to drug addicts reading the article who are just trying to find a way to pay for their next hit! We all know what happens with meth labs! KABOOM!
> 
> But, it could be equally valid that the officials themselves don't even know how it will work. Almost none of them know a damned thing about chemistry or metallurgy, after all.


Agree. We are - at best - being given a tenth of the information about the process. No liquid can meaningfully dissolve EVERYTHING on any given circuit board, simply by dropping it in the liquid while and if it could it would be crazy expensive.

Watching the video I get a feeling that it's just a great scam to make people think they are doing something for the environment.

Now, if they could somehow powder the entire circuit board, then maybe it'd be possible to reach all the metals with some acid (the man in the video only mentions the metals, not resins or fiberglass) or acids (or other chemical).
A more meaningful way would be to find a good way to depopulate the entire CB leaving only fiberglass a few copper strands (these could be recovered also) and maybe a bit of tin (also recoverable) and then only mill the components. That would cut down on waste a whole lot.


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## nwinther (Mar 22, 2022)

speed said:


> Electro refining seems a great way to use excess wind generation. It doesnt have to run constantly.


But when it does it should run evenly, right?


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## speed (Mar 22, 2022)

Well the way i see it you have a large plant with multiple cells when you have spare capacity you switch them on and when you need power elsewhere they get switched off. 

I will say tho it's more a solution that would suit a grod based on a constant supply of nuclear power than silly wind turbines!


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## Yggdrasil (Mar 22, 2022)

nwinther said:


> But is energy production really that simple? For electro refining you need a steady and even supply of power, right? Not something fluctuating with the rotation of the earth, cloud cover or the wind, right?
> 
> It's my impression that the reason wind can be economical, it's because of a LOT of windmills as well as a 100% backup capacity from coal, gas or nuclear. The central plants can adjust output as the wind is blowing, providing to a large group of homes and industry.
> 
> ...


No you are not wrong. But I also laid out fast flowing rivers and high creeks, which in nature are more persistent.
Galenrog just before my post specifically mentioned battery banks.
And as Speed says it do not have to run 24-7 although that would be ideal.
The options are more or less vast, albeit not cheap or ready accessible.
Edit misspelling


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## stella polaris (Mar 22, 2022)

I see a trend here in Europe when it comes to waste. In the new "future" recycling economy the waste is *THE* resource. To control the waste flow is like to control colonies and their resources. 

We are told to collect and sort our "waste" and put it in the correct collection bin. You are never told the value of the waste. Now if we look at e-waste you have probably the main source of gold globally. With 7 % of the gold tied up in electronics and a short lifetime of electronics this will be a target for total controll.

Why? The one controlling the PM market is king... Its all about resources. Real resources and not fiat currencies, stocks and bonds as many thinks.

In Norway it just came a new law. In order to pick up an item from a waste bin, gaylord or waste pile you must have a written agreement. Its not enough with asking. They must provide you with a written paper or its unlawful to take the old router in their waste bin. 

We will see more of this type of rules, that makes it more difficult to collect scrap in the future. The big guys are comming, more and more, and they want to be alone. 

Norway will, as today, send its e-waste abroad and export the energy to the plants taking care of it. Its like Swedens iron ore export to Germany. It seems we are not allowed to take care of it our self.


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## Alondro (Mar 22, 2022)

nwinther said:


> But is energy production really that simple? For electro refining you need a steady and even supply of power, right? Not something fluctuating with the rotation of the earth, cloud cover or the wind, right?
> 
> It's my impression that the reason wind can be economical, it's because of a LOT of windmills as well as a 100% backup capacity from coal, gas or nuclear. The central plants can adjust output as the wind is blowing, providing to a large group of homes and industry.
> 
> ...


Wind has lots of issues. The wind turbines don't have a long lifespan and use up ENORMOUS amounts of material that's very hard to recycle. The current designs, when you look at the energy INPUT required to make them, coupled with their short lifetime of use, makes them not very efficient at all. 

Nuclear is currently the ONLY practical option for replacing fossil fuels. Nothing else has such a high energy density and modern plants can be exceedingly efficient with standardized part design and fuel rods or pellets which can be recycled to make us of all fissible material, resulting in 1% of the waste of the old plant, and waste that has a much shorter half-life. 

The modern plant designs also cannot melt down. They use a combination of core geometry and passive neutron flux material (such as water or molten salt) which doubles as the cooling material. If the plant is damaged by an earthquake or other disaster, the flux/coolant simply drains away and the chain reaction ceases. The Fukishima plant had an active coolant system, and was a very old design with a typical 1st gen core. Even so, what finally doomed it was a pressure release valve that had no manual override. Every time they'd try to pump water in to cool it, the valve flipped and stopped it.

Hence, why the passive systems are so superior. This could not have happened in the new designs.


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## GoIdman (Mar 23, 2022)

stella polaris said:


> I see a trend here in Europe when it comes to waste. In the new "future" recycling economy the waste is *THE* resource. To control the waste flow is like to control colonies and their resources.


 Hi Stella,

I belive you are spot on about the e-waste as resource. Many countries in europe are starting to put out laws about the legality to hold e-waste if you are not a company, and also illegal to buy or store e-waste in large amounts (somehow justified since it can have pollutant status if you are storing it outside piled up in your garden).

I don`t have any problem if big players would pay fair money for e-waste, but the problem is that they play so little it is not worth selling to them.

Also no investment in recovery technology (the whole shebang from start to finish), which is IMHO the most important. I saw a few so called "big players" which use huge gas furnaces to burn-melt everything together, cast a big ingot then send it for further refinement.

I belive this can be done environmently friendly and safe, but who has interest in it? (everyone wants fast output and quick money)

Be safe

Pete


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## blackcatlettuce (Mar 23, 2022)

galenrog said:


> I agree that producing your own power is a good option, if you are in a position to do so. One aspect of any property I look at when moving from Oregon to Texas this summer will be whether we have the potential to produce power. Combination of solar and wind to a sizeable battery bank is best, if possible.
> 
> Time for more coffee.


Wind is a pile in my experience. Too many moving parts and maintenance for so little gain. Solar is crazy expensive, but in the US you could get some tax benefits. Cheaper to hook up an alternator to a bike if you want to go that far as to produce your own power on the cheap side. Get some cardio in too.


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## bgrimes422 (Mar 23, 2022)

Elon Musk has received a permit for being an energy supplier in Texas. He won't actually produce power. He will store it in giant battery banks that he charges when the power price is low and supply is excessive. Then he will sell it back to the grid when the supply is low and the wholesale price goes high. I don't know what the cost of the batteries is for him since he obviously purchases huge amounts of batteries for his cars. I also don't know the maintenance cost to keep good batteries at the ready. But apparently he thinks he can make money at it. He seems to make money at everything else. He may also be working a carbon tax deal in the mix as well. Texas now has the most wind power of any state so when the wind blows across Texas, energy prices are much lower than when there is a freeze that locks everything up.


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## Martijn (Mar 23, 2022)

Windmills in the netherlands ran for a significant part on subsidy until prices shot up. 
The highy toxic lubrication oil that slowly leaks out and and pollutes our sea and land is another thing that is not taken in account evoronmentally baffles me. But smoking is oh so bad for you. 
Big buisiness lobby madness raising and taking our tax money. 
And yes then you have the CO2 scam on top of it. 
Nothing to do with evironment and everything to do with reliability on fossil fuel from dictator counties. Imo.


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## orvi (Mar 24, 2022)

We need that energy gamechanger... Thorium nuclear reactors or nuclear fusion. Otherwise there will always be energy battle going on. 
Or some groundbreaking invention of new battery type. With current tech, most of the "green" energy sources are unsustainable in long run.

It would be wise to invest fossil and nuclear energy resources to build working infrastructure for times, when they run out. But we all know how this would never happen


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## justinhcase (Mar 24, 2022)

There was a


orvi said:


> We need that energy gamechanger... Thorium nuclear reactors or nuclear fusion. Otherwise there will always be energy battle going on.
> Or some groundbreaking invention of new battery type. With current tech, most of the "green" energy sources are unsustainable in long run.
> 
> It would be wise to invest fossil and nuclear energy resources to build working infrastructure for times, when they run out. But we all know how this would never happen


There was a week or two back then when they were actually paying people to take their oil.
Who knows what ever is next?








You Have to Pay to Give Oil Away (Published 2020)


The price of a barrel of oil dropped below zero, reflecting both short-term technical factors and long-term fundamentals. A recovery seems remote.




www.nytimes.com


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## orvi (Mar 24, 2022)

justinhcase said:


> There was a
> 
> There was a week or two back then when they were actually paying people to take their oil.
> Who knows what ever is next?
> ...


In 2022, I don´t want to assume or predict anything  

1,70 euro for liter of gasoline here. Compared to that unprecedentet situation we experienced two years ago... It would be great for ordinary people to have stable and reliable supply for their energy needs. We could certainly do better


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## nwinther (Mar 25, 2022)

bgrimes422 said:


> Elon Musk has received a permit for being an energy supplier in Texas. He won't actually produce power. He will store it in giant battery banks that he charges when the power price is low and supply is excessive. Then he will sell it back to the grid when the supply is low and the wholesale price goes high. I don't know what the cost of the batteries is for him since he obviously purchases huge amounts of batteries for his cars. I also don't know the maintenance cost to keep good batteries at the ready. But apparently he thinks he can make money at it. He seems to make money at everything else. He may also be working a carbon tax deal in the mix as well. Texas now has the most wind power of any state so when the wind blows across Texas, energy prices are much lower than when there is a freeze that locks everything up.


Actually he's not making a lot of money. He's a stock-billionaire (don't know if thats a term in English. In Danish we have a term "Aktie-milliardær" meaning someone who has a billion worth in stock, but not cash - if he were to start liquidize that stock the value will drop and he would be less rich).

Tesla only began making money last year and mostly from selling CO2-shares to other car manufacturers.

Musk's Battery-option, I find dubious. Maybe he can make it work but it will probably be built on a lot of tax legislation or -exemptions, government money etc. He's been really good at that. But the business case for the technology - as-is - sounds sci-fi to me.


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## nwinther (Mar 25, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Windmills in the netherlands ran for a significant part on subsidy until prices shot up.
> The highy toxic lubrication oil that slowly leaks out and and pollutes our sea and land is another thing that is not taken in account evoronmentally baffles me. But smoking is oh so bad for you.
> Big buisiness lobby madness raising and taking our tax money.
> And yes then you have the CO2 scam on top of it.
> Nothing to do with evironment and everything to do with reliability on fossil fuel from dictator counties. Imo.


And it's interesting how wind-enthusiast today are very critical of especially nuclear, subsidies etc.
Their entire industry was built on massive subsidies for decades and to this day they are still rambling about "power to X" - if that was a thing, they'd be selling it alongside the windmill. But it's still a tech in it's infancy and the economic viability sounds a lot like constant subsidies or overtaxation on competeing technology.
And by those means you can make a horse and carriage out-compete any car, truck or train.


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## nwinther (Mar 25, 2022)

orvi said:


> We need that energy gamechanger... Thorium nuclear reactors or nuclear fusion. Otherwise there will always be energy battle going on.
> Or some groundbreaking invention of new battery type. With current tech, most of the "green" energy sources are unsustainable in long run.
> 
> It would be wise to invest fossil and nuclear energy resources to build working infrastructure for times, when they run out. But we all know how this would never happen


Why not build uranium fuelled reactors? Current 4th generation reactors are absolutely fine. Sure, keep researching and improving, but no need to wait.
There's 4 billion tons of uranium in the sea waster and we can harvest it on an OK price. Plus it's in a quazi-equilibrium, where if we remove a ton, another ton will be washed out. I.E. infinite energy (at least until the sun burns out.)


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## Liquidau (Mar 25, 2022)

This is based on a Canadian company, Excir, that filed a patent based on a University of Saskatchewan research team’s claims of e-waste gold extraction using a simple, non toxic and non corrosive ingredient. Here’s an excerpt:

Accordingly, the present application includes a method of leaching and extracting gold and/or palladium from a substance comprising gold and/or palladium, the method comprising:
[0032]
treating a mixture comprising an aqueous phase comprising an acid, an oxidizing agent and the substance, and an organic phase comprising a water-immiscible organic solvent and a compound of Formula I:




wherein
[0033]
R1 is —NR4R5 or aryl;
[0034]
R2 and R3 are each independently selected from H, C1-10alkyl, C3-10cycloalkyl, C1-6alkyleneC3-10cycloalkyl, heterocycloalkyl and aryl; or
[0035]
R2 and R3 together with the nitrogen atom to which they are attached, form a heterocycloalkyl or a heteroaryl, or a heterocycloalkyl or a heteroaryl substituted at one or more carbon atoms with C1-4alkyl;
[0036]
R4 and R5 are each independently selected from H, C1-10alkyl, C3-10cycloalkyl, C1-6alkyleneC3-10cycloalkyl, heterocycloalkyl and aryl; or
[0037]
R4 and R5 together with the nitrogen atom to which they are attached, form a heterocycloalkyl or a heteroaryl, or a heterocycloalkyl or a heteroaryl substituted at one or more carbon atoms with C1-4alkyl;
[0038]
X is O or S;
[0039]
Y is S, NR6 or CR6R7; and
[0040]
R6 and R7 are each independently selected from H, C1-10alkyl, C3-

The original scientists got a whack of seed money on Dragon’s Den about 5 years ago (like Shark Tank in the US) and then disappeared. Now it all seems to have resurfaced with this Royal Mint press release. Who knew gold extraction was so easy? 

The Emperor wears no clothes. Watch for this to fail big time….


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## orvi (Mar 26, 2022)

Liquidau said:


> This is based on a Canadian company, Excir, that filed a patent based on a University of Saskatchewan research team’s claims of e-waste gold extraction using a simple, non toxic and non corrosive ingredient. Here’s an excerpt:
> 
> Accordingly, the present application includes a method of leaching and extracting gold and/or palladium from a substance comprising gold and/or palladium, the method comprising:
> [0032]
> ...


I was long thinking about very similar approach, but more on the "cheaper side"  
We all know I2/KI method... Gold in tetraiodoaurate anion is pretty much well stabilized. But it eventually reprecipitates back on base metals to certain extent. My idea was to create a biphasic system, with water/KI/I2 phase with some phase-transfer additive like say tetraalkylammonium salt, and organic phase - some solvent like mixture of toluene and say ether or acetate. 

Idea was to stabilize tetraiodoaurate with "organic-friendly" anion, which could possibly get the gold to the organic phase, slowly stripping aqueous phase from gold.

But... It never worked to my expectations


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## Liquidau (Mar 27, 2022)

orvi said:


> I was long thinking about very similar approach, but more on the "cheaper side"
> We all know I2/KI method... Gold in tetraiodoaurate anion is pretty much well stabilized. But it eventually reprecipitates back on base metals to certain extent. My idea was to create a biphasic system, with water/KI/I2 phase with some phase-transfer additive like say tetraalkylammonium salt, and organic phase - some solvent like mixture of toluene and say ether or acetate.
> 
> Idea was to stabilize tetraiodoaurate with "organic-friendly" anion, which could possibly get the gold to the organic phase, slowly stripping aqueous phase from gold.
> ...


Interesting, Orvi, that you dug so deeply into the I2/KI chemistry. Could these dudes have cracked the Da Vinci Code on that to enable complete extraction so quickly and safely?


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## orvi (Mar 28, 2022)

Liquidau said:


> Interesting, Orvi, that you dug so deeply into the I2/KI chemistry. Could these dudes have cracked the Da Vinci Code on that to enable complete extraction so quickly and safely?


I am always attracted by very simple and clever processes. And being organic chemist, I am quite familiar with extraction techniques. But we have and old saying roughly translating to - "Christmas aren´t everyday" 

I think it is fully possible to establish such a process. With team of skilled chemists, hundreds of hours of research... Completely doable. Only "if" is the price of whole setup and mostly - price of the scavenger and it´s ability to be recovered and recycled. 
I see if this will ever be used on large scale, it should be continous process. Phases continously pumped and organic phase precipitated elsewhere on appropriate medium. 
If you achieve very good stability of the gold complex, you have very good opportunity to make this profitable. But so many thing to go wrong


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## jinglat (Mar 30, 2022)

orvi said:


> As soon as somebody in my proximity know that I refine gold as hobbyist, they want to do it also, without any clue of chemistry.



youtube and this forum make it appear so easy to become quick rich with gold extraction from ewaste.

so big boys and ordinary peoples and even gouvernements getting gold fiver big time

is a matter of short time gouvernements will take stricte control of every gram of any household waste , perhaps jail law for people that collect waste from streets for a living


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## justinhcase (Mar 30, 2022)

jinglat said:


> youtube and this forum make it appear so easy to become quick rich with gold extraction from ewaste.
> 
> so big boys and ordinary peoples and even gouvernements getting gold fiver big time
> 
> is a matter of short time gouvernements will take stricte control of every gram of any household waste , perhaps jail law for people that collect waste from streets for a living


They already have quite completely over here, but no such thing as a small operator.
Lots of hoops to jump through.





Regulations: Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment (WEEE)


Guidance for manufacturers, importers and distributors.




www.gov.uk


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## Alondro (Mar 30, 2022)

blackcatlettuce said:


> Wind is a pile in my experience. Too many moving parts and maintenance for so little gain. Solar is crazy expensive, but in the US you could get some tax benefits. Cheaper to hook up an alternator to a bike if you want to go that far as to produce your own power on the cheap side. Get some cardio in too.


Wind might work on a small scale for an individual just generating a little power, it they have a small simple windmill and it's windy a LOT. The big windmills suffer from EXTREME stresses by virtue of their mere size. They don't last long. And most of their mass is special super-strong plastics which are very hard to recycle.

At least solar panels will last a decade or so before their output starts seriously dropping off. 

Nuclear is the way to go for mass power production. But people are too scared of it. They only hear the fear-mongering, never learning that Chernobyl was a TERRIBLE plant design and was the victim of an absolutely IDIOTIC series of experiments that any first-year nuclear physics student should have known was absurdly risky. And Fukishima was a very old plant (which should have been decommissioned a decade previously) which was taken out not even by the earthquake and tsunami... but because this plant which absolutely required active water pumping for the coolant system had NO MANUAL BACKUP SYSTEM AT ALL in the event power was lost, an absurd oversight for a plant built on the most seismically-active zone on the planet, with a LONG history of devastating earthquakes and tsunamis. 

Even when they did manage to get portable generators to the site, they couldn't hook them into the pumping system because they lacked the right power cables. 

None of this is an issue with the NEW plant designs, most of which use a GRAVITY-FED cooling and neutron flux system based on either water or molten salt. If power stops for any reason, the water or salt flows away and the nuclear chain reaction simply stops. Indeed, the only way to get a meltdown in those plant designs is for someone to physically enter the core, rip the fuel components out of their housings, and pile them up into a critical mass.... I think someone will notice that happening.


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