# Gold bars



## autumnwillow (May 18, 2016)

Is it possible to pour bars like these or is this polished?


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## justinhcase (May 18, 2016)

The top picture is produced by industrial press and not poured.
Gold is very malleable so you could neaten up you little poured bar by hammering or a workshop press.If you annihlat when you see the Au starting to work harden.
But to get a uniform pressed bar requires a tool maker who can engrave your negative impression and a proper press.
But there is no difference in value, so why go to the expense?
Some people proffer the look of traditional poured bar's


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## autumnwillow (May 18, 2016)

I have a hydraulic press. I'll try that.



> But there is no difference in value, so why go to the expense?



Nothing, just want to have fun with the outcome of the bars. Heh


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## Lou (May 18, 2016)

Try Poco AF5 EDM graphite...get mirror finish bars like that. Melt in the mold under nitrogen.

Lou


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## 4metals (May 18, 2016)

These are from a tunnelbar machine. They're nice too. Melted in nitrogen atmosphere in machined graphite.


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## justinhcase (May 18, 2016)

I would just like controlled atmosphere casting unit.
Think of the nice silver and platinum group metals you could do.
But a constantly rolling machine like a tunnelbar machine mind blowing turn over.


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## autumnwillow (May 19, 2016)

How do I melt in a nitrogen atmosphere? I do have experience in casting gold jewelry but not in any sort of atmosphere, just plain vacuum.

Nice bars 4metals, are those your products?


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## 4metals (May 19, 2016)

If they were *my* bars, I would be posting this from my yacht. Since I am posting this from my couch, I will admit they were bars made by a client that I set up but he didn't give me any!


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 19, 2016)

Haha!
4metals, the beautiful things you post *NEVER* cease to amaze me.

Jaw dropped=me


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## autumnwillow (May 19, 2016)

Finest bars. Way better than those trapezoid looking bars. Topher show me your bars!


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 19, 2016)

autumnwillow said:


> Finest bars. Way better than those trapezoid looking bars. Topher show me your bars!



Haha! My bars!?!
More like baby nuggets!

I *really* wish i would have taken a picture of my last one...i ran out of melt dishesz so i used a corning ware french white piece... The swirl of the flame made it heart shaped.. It was beautiful.

Heres a couple of my feeble attempts at being a "refiner"

-okay, so its just one of my buttons, i will post the rest when i grab the sd card from my old phone.

-topher, the bar-less


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## autumnwillow (May 19, 2016)

We have the same scratches in the gold! I guess those are from grabbing the gold or maybe when we toss them out of the mold.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 19, 2016)

autumnwillow said:


> We have the same scratches in the gold! I guess those are from grabbing the gold or maybe when we toss them out of the mold.



I pluck mine out with a pair of "gold only" pliers.

As soon as i get/find/buy a oxy acetylene torch i plan on getting or making a good cone mold, buying some bar molds, and fabricating a bunch of things around the lab.
But everyone here thinks that their 10 year old torch and bottles are valued at 3 times more than they were new.

I hate my.local craigslist... Nothing but people advertising they want your scrap cars/cats/appliances -and- they will haul it for free! Or they want to sell you their 3 year old cell phone for 100 bucks more than what you could find a brand new one for on amazon or feebay.. ...a couple years ago, it was a great site, i made a good living buying-fixing-selling broken vehicles, computers, and cell phones... Now.. It seems as if its just a place for people to advertise their business, and no true "regular joe's" sell their stuff on their -or they just call the "free tow" people and get 50 bucks for their 2004 chevy impala or whatever...

I guess i cant complain (rant and ramble) about craigslist *too* much, as that is how i get the majority of my gold to refine...about once or twice a week i have someone sell me their lot of goldfilled/karat jewelry, so, theres that..

I just want/*NEED* a decent torch!

-topher


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 19, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> autumnwillow said:
> 
> 
> > We have the same scratches in the gold! I guess those are from grabbing the gold or maybe when we toss them out of the mold.
> ...



A MAPP gas torch from Home Depot will work fine for you.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 19, 2016)

This is what I have been using, and it is horrible. Even if its cranked all the way and if i have my regular propane torch cooking it too... It just doesnt have the nuts

Either that, or i dont have the brains.

Probably a combination of both


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## kurtak (May 19, 2016)

Topher

Here is my set up for small gold melts - 2 ozt melts - noooo problem

what kind of flame does your torch put out - mine puts out what they call a swirl flame

Kurt


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## Lou (May 19, 2016)

It's all in the graphite, purity, cooling rate. No better graphite than what I recommended (Italians pay attention!). That and melting in mold to avoid turbulence. Those tunnel bar ingots are done on a water cooled plate and melted in situ with induction. IECO used to have a video somewhere...


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## 4metals (May 19, 2016)

I think IECO is now IKOI. Same system.


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## FormidableRogue (May 19, 2016)

My friends, from my very limited experience its all about the kiln. Make it as insulated as possible, put your flame not directly on the gold but rather make it to where it formes a tornado in our kiln. Circling around your crucible. Also make sure you keep your import hole for your torch head nice and tight. Els u run the chance of blowback melting ur head.....


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 20, 2016)

kurtak said:


> Topher
> 
> Here is my set up for small gold melts - 2 ozt melts - noooo problem
> 
> ...



I looked for the box thst came with the torch, and i have misplaced it.

I do believe it was a "swirl" flame, but, now I am doubting myself.

Heres a couple pictures

And a youtube video, because the pictures dont really help..

https://youtu.be/nZ00uTWyyO0

Thanks guys


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## mls26cwru (May 20, 2016)

a short while back I ran across a oxy-acetylene/propane torch and a local industrial surplus warehouse... torch with interchangeable tips, good hoses, both regulators, both blow-back arrestors, and an adapter for propane cylinders...best $35 I ever spent. I can now melt 2oz batches in about 1 min!  

if there is any kind of surplus store near you, it might be worth checking out!


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 20, 2016)

mls26cwru said:


> a short while back I ran across a oxy-acetylene/propane torch and a local industrial surplus warehouse... torch with interchangeable tips, good hoses, both regulators, both blow-back arrestors, and an adapter for propane cylinders...best $35 I ever spent. I can now melt 2oz batches in about 1 min!
> 
> if there is any kind of surplus store near you, it might be worth checking out!



I envy you!

But, i think my luck has just changed.
Earlier i got a message from a guy replying to my craigslist advert, interested in my "mad max/zombie apocalypse" subaru legacy (i got it in a trade...never,*ever* would my wife let me waste money on something like it -although we both love it now lol)

He is wanting to trade me his victor torch with 3 cutting tips, brazing tip, rose bud, 2 goggles, striker, cart, and two big bottles (for the oxy and acetylene)... That plus $3,500 for this (see pic of ridiculous car)

I am going to call it a win....unless the zombie apocalypse does happen...then... I lose

I was going to buy one a few months back, but my father-in-law told me "don't spend 200 bucks on one! I have one i can get you, or theres 1,000 places in the city you could buy one for $100 bucks! All day, everyday!"... After going to all these places, and striking out at every..single...one... I asked him if he still had his...he said no.

Then i asked him where this magical land of 100 dollar torches is...and he said hed get it... Next time i saw him -"ohhh, i can't believe how expensive those things are now!" :lol: ...ahh, the joys of the "in-laws"

You got a great deal!

Topher


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 20, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> mls26cwru said:
> 
> 
> > a short while back I ran across a oxy-acetylene/propane torch and a local industrial surplus warehouse... torch with interchangeable tips, good hoses, both regulators, both blow-back arrestors, and an adapter for propane cylinders...best $35 I ever spent. I can now melt 2oz batches in about 1 min!
> ...



You need to learn how to read the date code on the tanks before you do the trade so you are not buying tanks that you can't turn in to refill.


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## mls26cwru (May 20, 2016)

Nice! Bottles included is a nice bonus... I had to buy a oxygen bottle and the 40l bottle was $90.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 20, 2016)

Thank you Barren.

My father told me the same thing. That the bottles have a 10 year period (correct?). And that there is a fee associated with them.

I will be doing my due diligence of studying prior to pulling the trigger on the deal. As i want to make sure it has good regulators, check valves, good hoses, etc..

I dont want to give away that beauty for nothin'!

-toph


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## geedigity (May 20, 2016)

A reason some folks can melt okay with MAPP and others cannot may be due to the elevation one is at. Living at 6700 feet above mean sea level shorted me the oxygen I needed to quickly melt. However, I was able to eventually melt gold, copper or silver using a propane furnace. It just required a long time to melt relatively small amounts.


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## autumnwillow (May 21, 2016)

You could try insulating the crucible where you melt. Cover it with something that cannot melt, an old crucible perhaps, clay pots or diy refractory hood. Make sure you can take out the crucible easily so when you are about to pour you wont have to move the covers.

I would go for a furnace instead of acetylene/oxy. Although I have an oxy/acetylene set myself, I'd give my money back for a gas fired furnace. For me having a furnace is just better for most refining jobs. Lesser losses due to flue.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 21, 2016)

You guys have given me alot to think about.

Elevation is 1,299 feet above sea level at my house, so i dont think that would be it. But, when i directed some forced air at it, it did help.

I have tried insulating my crucible with rockwool, and it helped a bit.

I want a furnace, badly...i have most of the needed materials make one, just need to collect a few more things. I do need a torch though, for melting, and cutting up some metal to make other things i need for my workspace (yes, metal is a horrible idea for anything in the lab, but, my garage side is my workspace (to me)..where i can fix broken things and make money to pursue my hobby. After the torch, i will get a tig welder-then it's on!


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 21, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> You guys have given me alot to think about.
> 
> Elevation is 1,299 feet above sea level at my house, so i dont think that would be it. But, when i directed some forced air at it, it did help.
> 
> ...



I'm going to hit the nail on the head here.

If you would put the time and effort into melting the gold button you have with your crucible setting on the rock wool and then letting it cool and do this over and over with your MAPP gas torch as you do trying to make post and comments on members problems you would have your melting problems solved. You wouldn't be having to try and find an oxy/acet torch that you don't need, or a furnace that that you probably don't need at this time in your endevour of learning to work with PM's.

Practice is all you need to learn how you are supposed to accomplish this effort, not spending time on finding equipment that uses more energy than you need to for accomplishing your project.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 21, 2016)

Ouch.

But, yes, nail hit.

Edit: didnt nesn to hit submit.

But, I am only able to go outside when i have the luxury of someone to watch my children.

Its much easier to get on my phone and read with two young boys at my side as opposed to going outside and trying to refine or melt.

But, i hear you.

Loud and clear


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 21, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> Ouch.
> 
> But, yes, nail hit.
> 
> ...



So then there is not a 10-15 minute span that you can go outside?


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## autumnwillow (May 22, 2016)

10 to 15 minutes of time for an experiment is not good. Knowing that you will leave your children somewhere without anyone watching them. If an accident occurs two things would come to your mind. Your children's safety and what you need to do in order to solve the current problem. An experiment should be done when you are free from any other worries, not having to think of what could be going on your other side of responsibility.


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 22, 2016)

autumnwillow said:


> 10 to 15 minutes of time for an experiment is not good. Knowing that you will leave your children somewhere without anyone watching them. If an accident occurs two things would come to your mind. Your children's safety and what you need to do in order to solve the current problem. An experiment should be done when you are free from any other worries, not having to think of what could be going on your other side of responsibility.



It's not an experiment, it is a training exercise in getting familiar and confident with melting gold. I have a son as well and I understand his position.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 22, 2016)

Barren.

Yes, sometimes i can get away for 15 minutes or more, when my boys are asleep -as i have a baby monitor in my workspace.

But, they are by my side 99 percent of my time. As my wife works a great job with ridiculous hours, so this is a hobby for me for now. My boys are 3 and (almost)1, and very curious.. So even if we go out to play in the yard, they want to open the gate and see whats going on at "daddys work space"

Theres usually one day every other week where i get "me time" and thats when i take and use the information gathered here on the forum, to do my experiments and tried and true methods.

I wish i got my time more often, but, id rather be there for my kids than to hand them over to some random babysitter (lot of amber alerts from around here recently-sadly..) And.. My family all lives hours away from me

-me


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 22, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> Barren.
> 
> Yes, sometimes i can get away for 15 minutes or more, when my boys are asleep -as i have a baby monitor in my workspace.
> 
> ...



I understand, family always comes first. And I do understand where you are coming from. I wish you all of the success in this.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 22, 2016)

Thank you Barren, I appreciate the sentiment.
And agree with you completely, family should always come first.
Afterall, they are who i am doing this for in the end.
When i die will i leave them an empire? -no, probably not.

But, over years of growing and educating myself, and them. Should they choose to use the knowledge imparted on them, through me, through the forum, maybe they could.

I just like that this is a hobby where i have met good people, gained great insight and wisdom, and have put a few bucks in my pocket too.

Do i talk to much? Thats a resounding, unquestionable, yes.
But, theres always a few ways to better ourselves right?

-topher


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## justinhcase (May 30, 2016)

A friend has just pointed this out to me.
I want one or one similar.
It being induction based it should be able to do P.G.M.'s as well I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDP06ngcA4E


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## Lou (May 30, 2016)

Checkout argenta.pl they have something similar


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## justinhcase (May 30, 2016)

Thank you. That is very interesting.
I had only seen that configuration of vertical vacuum chamber before used in ceramic furnaces.
all the ones I am familiar with use a much more convoluted pressure sealed door.
Who do I know that can machine 300-400mm steel cylinder/That would take a good size lathe. 
Use a hand operated hydraulics or pure mechanical instead of a fancy electrically operated system to seal.
The ancillary systems once you brake them down are quite well priced stand alone unit's.
Yet an other thing to tack onto my five year plan.LOL


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## Lou (May 30, 2016)

I don't know but their pricing is outstanding.


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## FrugalRefiner (May 30, 2016)

Polski! 8) 

Dave


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## demyx148 (Apr 3, 2017)

4metals said:


> These are from a tunnelbar machine. They're nice too. Melted in nitrogen atmosphere in machined graphite.
> 
> 
> image.jpeg



hi i know it's out of topic. can i ask how to make those? where i can find the step to make it or the machine?
in my country we just used traditional ways without safety or else
and the best i can get is just shinny top but not smooth on surface like that
people like that kind of gold because the appearance is good


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## justinhcase (Apr 4, 2017)

If I had the money.
http://www.italimpianti.it/en/


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## EMRE (Dec 9, 2018)

4metals said:


> These are from a tunnelbar machine. They're nice too. Melted in nitrogen atmosphere in machined graphite.
> 
> 
> image.jpeg



Looks like a tunnel made by ikoi.


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## kafarleszno (Jan 5, 2019)

My last work.


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## anachronism (Jan 5, 2019)

Looks great to me.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jan 5, 2019)

piękny! (beautiful!)

Dave


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## Shark (Jan 5, 2019)

Very nice!


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## Refining Rick (Jan 5, 2019)

My first poured bar. Think I need to get the graphite mold hotter.


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## Shark (Jan 5, 2019)

Refining Rick said:


> My first poured bar. Think I need to get the graphite mold hotter.



It looks better than mine, I still need to get a mold,


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## anachronism (Jan 6, 2019)

Refining Rick said:


> My first poured bar. Think I need to get the graphite mold hotter.



That's not bad at all. Personally I'd heat the gold more before pouring it over- let it turn a bit brighter in the crucible if you're using a hot enough gas. Otherwise it's pretty good.


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## kurtak (Jan 6, 2019)

anachronism said:


> Refining Rick said:
> 
> 
> > My first poured bar. Think I need to get the graphite mold hotter.
> ...



Keep the torch flame on it during the pour & make the pour just a bit off center of the mold

Its still a nice bar though 8) 

Kurt


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## Palladium (Jan 6, 2019)

Looks good brother!
What did you melt it with sir?


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## Refining Rick (Jan 6, 2019)

I used a mapp torch and melting dish, with a propane torch on the graphite mold. Think I’ll do mapp on both next go. Thanks for the words of encouragement!


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## bklopsy (Feb 23, 2019)

Its been a while - just a little East coast color


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 23, 2019)

Very nice!

Dave


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## glorycloud (Feb 23, 2019)

"just a little East coast color"

The color of gold :G is much preferable that the color of COLD a.k.a. SNOW!!
White is the normal east coast color this time of year!! :lol:


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## bklopsy (Feb 23, 2019)

Thank goodness it is going to be in the 50s tomorrow.


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## scrapman1077 (Feb 23, 2019)

"tunnelbar machine" I have tried to find info on this, without success. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


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## g_axelsson (Feb 24, 2019)

https://www.google.com/search?q=tunnel+bar+machine+gold

Göran


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