# A new source>>>



## glondor (Oct 30, 2010)

I had a breakdown of my pick up truck a while back. My transfer case got stuck in 4 wheel drive low. The diagnosis was the electric motor that shifted the transfer case has quit, so I had it replaced. I kept the old unit to see if I could work out what happened to it. The screws holding the housing together were so corroded that I ended up just busting it open on a concrete floor. I dont know what this did as it flew out during the destruction, but I was amazed to see it. for all those who can get transfer case motors from Nissan trucks, here is what you get inside!!It is very thick, seems like 1/2 a mm thick.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Oct 30, 2010)

Have you ran any kind of test to make sure it is gold?


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## butcher (Oct 30, 2010)

I cannot see any picture, but gold will not be in any tranfer case or motor, Unless on of you refiners hide your gold in there. bronze from bushings or brass shavings or finely ground brass would be a good thing to start testing for. not gold.


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## Platdigger (Oct 30, 2010)

I don't know Butcher, looks like gold to me.
Probably a contact plate for the electrical power to the motor.


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## Anonymous (Oct 30, 2010)

I've seen a lot of gold in my time,and that sure as heck looks like gold.......and LOTS of it!
It almost looks exactly like some gold transistors I processed recently


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## Barren Realms 007 (Oct 30, 2010)

If you look at the last picture at the bottom of the middle ring and on the right side of the center ring it almost looks like paint over spray? I hope I am wrong.


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## glondor (Oct 30, 2010)

The part that looks like overspray is another one of the little bumps that run around the gold plated portions. the substrate is some kind of plastic. and where you can see the gold edge running thru the thickness i had pulled a sliver of plastic off. there are circular marks on the gold as if it had contacts rubbing around as the part rotated for its purpose. I will peel more plastic off and post another picture. I cannot test it as of yet as I do not yet have the chemicals yet.

A neodymium magnet has a very very slight attraction to it.


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## glondor (Oct 30, 2010)

I pulled the plastic off the part.







What should I do next?


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## butcher (Oct 30, 2010)

well I cannot see what this discussion is about, no picture where I sit, so found something about gold and nissan but do not get excited.
http://www.vadennissanwarranty.com/coverages/nissan-security-plus-gold.html

Nissan part# 999MP-MTF00P 75w85 MTF is GL-4 rated. Also, Spectro makes a straight 80w oil called Spectro Golden Gear Lube that is a GL-4. some oil can look like golden honey.

parts nowaday's are worth gold at least when I go to buy one at the auto parts store the guy asking me to pull out my wallet for the part thinks it is worth a chunk of gold.


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## glondor (Oct 30, 2010)

Here is a direct link to photobucket for you butcher. what do you think?

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v697/23224/rocks/


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## Anonymous (Oct 30, 2010)

Holy cow mike,I would not sleep until I tested that thing.I know theres no way in heck that its pure,but that color and texture are hypnotizing.You have got to let me know what the outcome is.


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## butcher (Oct 30, 2010)

glondor, pictures are blocked on this computer I will look at them when I get home, tonight, thanks you guys have me all excited and I cannot see it.


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## glondor (Oct 31, 2010)

Sorry Butcher, you will have to wait I guess. I tried the eraser test and after 100 scrubs with the eraser i see just gold. I scratched it pretty hard with a chisel and still just gold. I will find a small file tomorrow and see if I can find the base metal. best guess comparing it to a 1 oz silver maple leaf that it is about 15 grams or so total weight. I do not have a scale to measure it with yet. I wish I had some definitive test Mic just to satisfy both our curiosity.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Oct 31, 2010)

glondor said:


> Sorry Butcher, you will have to wait I guess. I tried the eraser test and after 100 scrubs with the eraser i see just gold. I scratched it pretty hard with a chisel and still just gold. I will find a small file tomorrow and see if I can find the base metal. best guess comparing it to a 1 oz silver maple leaf that it is about 15 grams or so total weight. I do not have a scale to measure it with yet. I wish I had some definitive test Mic just to satisfy both our curiosity.



Do you have some acid drain cleaner and some clorox?

You can use table salt and vinger I think it was to make some HCL and then use some clorox to see if you get any thing to react.


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## jimdoc (Oct 31, 2010)

You should be able to bend the center part out until it snaps.
Then check for flaking at the edges or see if the underlying metal
is a different color.

Jim


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## glondor (Oct 31, 2010)

i will take a look here.

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/17701-how-can-i-make-hydrochloric-acid/


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## rusty (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm laying odds - NO GOLD.


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## glondor (Oct 31, 2010)

sorry my old canon would take much better macros than this new Nikon. As you can see i broke it in two. I can see a separation between the inner and outer shell. I tried cutting it with a pair if needle nose pliers and the outer layer just smeared the whole cut shut.The inner metal looks yellowish to me as well.


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## jimdoc (Oct 31, 2010)

Well it is not pure gold,so that means it is probably just brass.Brass has so many different alloy possibilities,and I guess quite a few look like gold.
I think if it was gold plated you would see flakes and possibly the nickel layer
that would be under the gold plating where you broke it.

Jim


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## butcher (Oct 31, 2010)

It looks like gold, but clean brass can also, many people can be fooled with brass, one reason gold buyers always test the metal, looks can be deceiving. What function did the part have? The shape seems similar to a switch which would make different contact at different positions, the size of it and being almost solid yellow metal, seems very unlikely to me that much gold would be used. To make HCl from salt you need a stronger acid than the chloride like sulfuric acid (battery acid). A bisulfate and heat may work?
You may try a specific gravity test if you have no acid, but then you need a scale. a few drops of battery acid from a vehicle battery should tarnish the brass, but not effect gold. What chemicals do you have?
You need to get a few chemicals; it is hard to do tests for gold without them. Nice mystery


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## glondor (Oct 31, 2010)

I will play with it a bit more today if I get a chance. I may take it to a jeweler friend, fwiw it does not look like brass to me. and the part was in an actuator motor assembly that was sealed but not air tight, under a 4x4 truck. perhaps it is best that i get some sulfuric acid. We will see what the day brings.


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## T3sl4 (Nov 1, 2010)

Easy way to tell, almost any acid will dezincify brass, turning it pink. Hot ketchup would suffice!

Tim


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## butcher (Nov 1, 2010)

sticking your finger into the back of your mouth may produce HCl, caution do your refining and testing of metals outdoors, or in a fume hood. :lol: 
sorry could not help myself, I was trying to think of a way to get some of these chemicals.
may try using a cell with some salt water, a 9 volt batery would work, see if disolving some of your part as anode makes green liquid, and plates copper powder.


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## Ocean (Nov 1, 2010)

interesting


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## glondor (Nov 2, 2010)

The best i can come up with is some muriatic acid @ 31.45 %. its cheap enough so I bought some. home hardware also had sodium hydroxide and I can get that if necessary, or if it will do anything. I was tempted to try the hot ketchup! any how what should I do with the muriatic? just put a drop on and see what happens? let me know, I will document it as I do it.


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## glondor (Nov 2, 2010)

Ok so I did a little experiment. It is not conclusive however it is more positive for gold I think. I took 4 gold coloured items. A piece of anodized aluminum from a monitor frame, a copper slab from a heat sink, a gold lid from a cpu and my contact plate from my actuator motor.







I placed them on a glass plate and added 1 drop of muriatic acid to each piece with a plastic cocktail stirrer from the skylon tower in Niagara Falls.






I waited for a bit then I warmed each piece until the acid evaporated.






then I took the pieces inside and washed them off.






The aluminum stained. the copper stained. the cpu cap no reaction. contact plate no reaction.


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## glondor (Nov 2, 2010)

I have found something else that may contain gold. I will look at it a bit more and see if it is worth discussing. I will ask a question tho. Would there be a reason to use gold solder on a large heat sink?


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## butcher (Nov 3, 2010)

Now you have HCl with some (small additions) bleach you can dissolve some gold. Try just a little (sliver) of your metal, in test tube or whiskey shot glass (caution drink the whiskey not the yellow gold solution), if solution is yellow that will be a good sign, now some heat or just sun to let chlorine dissipate, go to hardware store and get some tin (95% as solder 5%antimony), now dissolving a piece of solder in HCl to make stannous chloride, a drop of the yellow solution of gold (on filter paper or Qtip], and a drop of stannous chloride should turn a pretty purple if positive for gold.

This is a good time for you to learn to test for gold (and other metals), do a little more research on the processes used, and the different techniques used, learning to test these metals can be very important.

keeping us posted this is interesting.


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## glondor (Nov 3, 2010)

Ok I tried this with a sliver of the part in one jar and a piece of a gold top processor in another. they both fizzed for a second or two, they both turned yellow then after a few minutes the truck part liquid turned yellow green, kinda like mountain dew. I made some stannous with tin solder, I dunked a q tip in each gold solution and put on paper, then dunked a qtip in stanous for each paper drop and added a drop to each wet spot and q tip on the paper. nothing happened with either sample. I perhaps did something wrong. the tin was still dissolving in the acid when I used the stanous. How long should the hcl bleach process take? maybe I did not wait long enough. There is a white precipitate in both jars. I am doing this outside and it is only about 6 degrees Celsius.


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## qst42know (Nov 3, 2010)

Both samples must be completely dissolved before you bother testing.


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## glondor (Nov 3, 2010)

OK makes sense to me. do I need more acid or bleach or both? I will try again tomorrow. Thanks for the info.


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## butcher (Nov 4, 2010)

If bleach is too strong (oxidizer in solution) or left in solution of your test, you will not get a positive test for the gold, as chlorine in solution will re-dissolve the gold, heat can remove the chlorine as gas. 
The reason to completely dissolve is because if you have base metals in solution as elemental metal the gold will plate out of solution onto them, and solution may only contain base metals, you will not need much gold to test, as stannous chloride will test for minute amounts of gold, so a tiny sliver (really small piece) is all you will need to dissolve.
The white precipitant may be salt NaCl, and possibly some sodium chlorate salt from your solution; you can test to see if they dissolve in water later when you are done with this test.
Good job glondor, you are on the right track.


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## Harold_V (Nov 4, 2010)

The ideal test for this part would be just a drop of nitric acid. If it does not react, the surface is most assuredly gold. If it is not, you'd get an instant blue reaction, along with some bubbling and gassing. The stannous chloride test is very reliable, but only when working with solutions. If you test a solid object, in spite of having dissolved some values, assuming they're present, they can easily be cemented, so you wouldn't witness a reaction. That might leave you to think that there is no gold when that may not be the case. 

I really encourage folks to read Hoke where testing is concerned. It's really easy to master, but you must have a firm understanding of what to look for, and how to conduct a viable test. She provides exactly that. READ HOKE!

Harold


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## glondor (Nov 4, 2010)

Ok I left the jars overnight and checked the results this morning. The metal had not dissolved. I added a little bleach to both samples and left it for an hour. No change so i added a little more acid and gave it a good stir. They both fizzed a bit and got cloudy with the stirred precipitate. As the jars settled the computer gold just settled and cleared but the truck part cloud put on a brilliant light show in the sunlight. For about 2 to3 minutes tiny golden sparkles swirled and settled out of the fluid however they vanished as they neared the bottom of the jar.I wanted to run and grab the camera but I could not stop watching. I gave it another good stir but it did not happen again. I dont know what happened but I sure would like to see it again. It is now 7 hours later and the metal in either jar still has not disolved. I am not sure what I am doing wrong I will try some more tomorrow. I do not have any nitric or I would do the test Harold recommends for sure. That is a bit too far up the learning curve for me right now, but I will source and acquire some in due time. I wish I could have got a picture for you all, it was quite something to see.


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## qst42know (Nov 4, 2010)

The 10k gold test acid is dilute nitric.


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## glondor (Nov 5, 2010)

OK did not have time to work on this today. However the metal is still in the jars, has not dissolved. There are crystals growing in both jars now. I think I have to start over. what is the ratio of hcl to bleach? Thanks for your time.


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## glondor (Nov 5, 2010)

OK the light came on. acid clorox does not work well for depleting because the acid attacks the base metals and re plates the gold. It works well on fingers as there is no base metal present, I get it. Duhhh Sometimes I cannot see the forest for all the trees. What i need is just a sliver as butcher said, of the metal I suspect is gold. I will try to separate a thin sliver of the gold plate from the truck part and redo the experiment with a gold finger as a controll and a pure sliver as the suspect. I will try to shave a curl off the part as the plating sure seems thick enough.I would like to get the acid/clorox ratios right if some one could tell me. I have looked on the forum but there is so much info my head spins. Thanks Mike.


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## dub8 (Nov 6, 2010)

glondor said:


> OK the light came on. acid clorox does not work well for depleting because the acid attacks the base metals and re plates the gold. It works well on fingers as there is no base metal present, I get it. Duhhh Sometimes I cannot see the forest for all the trees. What i need is just a sliver as butcher said, of the metal I suspect is gold. I will try to separate a thin sliver of the gold plate from the truck part and redo the experiment with a gold finger as a controll and a pure sliver as the suspect. I will try to shave a curl off the part as the plating sure seems thick enough.I would like to get the acid/clorox ratios right if some one could tell me. I have looked on the forum but there is so much info my head spins. Thanks Mike.


i think its 4 to 1 hcl to bleach


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## glondor (Nov 6, 2010)

Thanks.


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## patnor1011 (Nov 6, 2010)

Why not to scrape small bit dissolve in hot HCl and tes with stannous? If item is plated maybe cell is answer.


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## machiavelli976 (Nov 12, 2010)

Soak a little piece in conc. NaOH. If it's going to be gold plated brass , the broken side will turn dark brown pretty soon.


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## ricksusiefitz (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi everyone! This is my first post here at Gold Refining Forum.

An acid test will reveal if it is "yellow" brass. Brass stinks to high heaven when you do!


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## Harold_V (Nov 12, 2010)

ricksusiefitz said:


> Hi everyone! This is my first post here at Gold Refining Forum.
> 
> An acid test will reveal if it is "yellow" brass. Brass stinks to high heaven when you do!


The fastest and easiest test is one using a drop of nitric acid. Karat gold does not respond if 14K or greater, but will slightly discolor (leaning towards brown) if the alloy is 10K. The dead giveaway is that brass instantly reacts with nitric, yielding a green solution and liberating the well known brown fumes of nitric acid. I tend to discourage anyone from smelling fumes. They are known to kill. 

Welcome to the forum.

Harold


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## Anonymous (Nov 13, 2010)

Here are the results of the mystery piece of metal.Drum roll please...........there is no gold contained in it.It is yellow brass.


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## butcher (Nov 13, 2010)

OH-well, the knowlede you have gained is more valuble. it is worth gold.


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## glondor (Nov 13, 2010)

Mic offered to do a proper test for me so I sent him a bit of the item. We know the results. Thanks for your help mic. te mystery is solved. Cheers!


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## Anonymous (Nov 13, 2010)

You're welcome mike.Happy to help.


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## newgold (Dec 31, 2010)

I have bought alluvial gold in the past . One of the tricks used by panners on unsuspecting new chum buyers was and is to fine grind brass padlocks and beef up their alluvial .
The perpetrators would always run for the door when a nitric acid test was used .


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## glondor (Dec 31, 2010)

newgold said:


> I have bought alluvial gold in the past . One of the tricks used by panners on unsuspecting new chum buyers was and is to fine grind brass padlocks and beef up their alluvial .
> The perpetrators would always run for the door when a nitric acid test was used .



Seems there are a lot of dirty tricks out there. I have read a few good ones here in the last few days.Hollow stirring rods, adding copper to melts when the client is distracted. Maybe we could have a dirty tricks thread.


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## greatgems (Jan 3, 2011)

anything on this yet results thanks


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## glondor (Jan 3, 2011)

Yes the results were negative for gold.


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