# Plasma treated ore mixed with copper



## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

I'm working on an ore that has been mixed 4:1 with copper and then melted in a plasma furnace. The result is a copper shot with about 20% iron mixed within. We sent 1 Kilo to Arch enterprise and the results tested well for Ag,Au,Pd. Jim Lightsey the refiner at Arch said he was digesting the copper shot with 12.5% cold nitric acid. He would saturate the solution before turning the heat on to around 50 Celsius. Once all the copper has been digested we filter the solution and add Hydrochloric to drop the silver. The pulp is then treated with Aqua Regia 3 parts HCL to 1 part HNO3. Once the rest of the pulp is digested and we get rid of all the nitrogen we drop the gold out with sodium metabisulfite. If anything drops out we filter that and add dymethylglyoxime to drop out and Pd. I think these steps sound logical but when we've tried to repeat results we have been unsuccessful. We have sent another kilo to Arch to see if he can repeat it on his end. Any ideas on what I did wrong? Most of the instruction came from the refiner the only difference is he uses sulfur dioxide gas and I used SMB


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## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

Copper shot material 


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## kernels (May 4, 2017)

In what way were you unsuccessful ? How did your results differ from the refiner's ? When you say you get rid of the excess Nitrogen, I assume you mean Nitric Acid ? How do you do this ?


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## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

I didn't see any silver from the nitric digest. I got rid of the nitric by boiling down the Aqua Regia and refilling with HCL 3 times or until no nitric was present. Tested with nitric test strips. This is how the refiner said he did it. Once I got rid of the nitric acid i added 300 ml of water to the 50 ml of Aqua Regia. I mixed up the sodium metabisulfite with water and poured it into the AR. No visible precipitate. 


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## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

So far I haven't seen any of the metals the refiner said he was able to extract. 


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## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

Nuwaysolutions said:


> I didn't see any silver from the nitric digest. I got rid of the nitric by boiling down the Aqua Regia and refilling with HCL 3 times or until no nitric was present. Tested with nitric test strips. This is how the refiner said he did it. Once I got rid of the nitric acid i added 300 ml of water to the 50 ml of Aqua Regia. I mixed up the sodium metabisulfite with water and poured it into the AR. No visible precipitate.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk






copper digest with about 15 ml HCL to precipitate the silver chloride. 



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## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

Nuwaysolutions said:


> Nuwaysolutions said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't see any silver from the nitric digest. I got rid of the nitric by boiling down the Aqua Regia and refilling with HCL 3 times or until no nitric was present. Tested with nitric test strips. This is how the refiner said he did it. Once I got rid of the nitric acid i added 300 ml of water to the 50 ml of Aqua Regia. I mixed up the sodium metabisulfite with water and poured it into the AR. No visible precipitate.
> ...






after getting rid of the nitric acid, refilled with water and added sodium metabisulfite. 



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## g_axelsson (May 4, 2017)

Do you have stannous chloride to test with? If not, I suggest you go to the library and read up on the subject and then make some stannous for testing.

Göran


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## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

We have a bruker pico fox xrf and stannous chloride. Not seeing any metals in solution with either. I'm not sure how the refiner is coming up with these values. I really hope it's not a case of contamination on his end. 


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## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

Let me rephrase that I'm not seeing any precious metals with the xrf. 


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## g_axelsson (May 4, 2017)

It sounds like the reason you don't get any silver or gold is that there are none.

Silver from a nitric leach is quite obvious from the white cloud of silver chloride that is formed when you add HCl. If you didn't get that cloud then you didn't have any silver in the nitric leach. From the color of the solution it doesn't look like you have any palladium either, that ought to have followed the silver into solution in the nitric leach.

Do you have any solids left that hasn't been dissolved?

What does the XRF tell you about the copper nodules?
What does the XRF tell you about any insoluble material after aqua regia treatment?

And since you have the XRF, what does it tell you about the content in the two beakers?

What was the levels of precious metals that the refinery reported?

Göran


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## UncleBenBen (May 4, 2017)

Nuwaysolutions said:


> I'm not sure how the refiner is coming up with these values.



Did you buy this material from the refiner?


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## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

UncleBenBen said:


> Nuwaysolutions said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure how the refiner is coming up with these values.
> ...


No we are in the process of purchasing the ore from a third party pending verification of values after plasma pretreatment. The material was sent to Arch enterprise in New Mexico, Missouri . They were able to extract value that we have not. 


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## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> It sounds like the reason you don't get any silver or gold is that there are none.
> 
> Silver from a nitric leach is quite obvious from the white cloud of silver chloride that is formed when you add HCl. If you didn't get that cloud then you didn't have any silver in the nitric leach. From the color of the solution it doesn't look like you have any palladium either, that ought to have followed the silver into solution in the nitric leach.
> 
> ...


I will post xrf screenshot tomorrow am. Thanks for the help. 


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## Nuwaysolutions (May 4, 2017)

Nuwaysolutions said:


> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> > It sounds like the reason you don't get any silver or gold is that there are none.
> ...






I was able to log into my computer at work. This is a scan of the solids left over from the diluye nitric wash. Looks like trace levels of gold. 



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## Nuwaysolutions (May 5, 2017)

Nuwaysolutions said:


> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> > It sounds like the reason you don't get any silver or gold is that there are none.
> ...


Do you think the palladium could have followed the copper in 12.5% nitric acid? 


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## justinhcase (May 5, 2017)

So just to make sure I have this straight.
You are looking at buying what you describe as an ore from a contact.
He has sent a sample to an outside lab and shown you results that shows a value.
Now you have acquired your fist lot you are having problems finding the value that was shown in the original assay.
First I would have very serious doubts about any one trying to sell preciouses metal ore to some one not in the industry.
There are a lot of very dedicated people hunting for good material and they pay extremely close to the spot value in most cases, why would some one with a good ore waste time and money selling it to some one who could never come close to matching the higher return of a large refinery.
I would start at the beginning who is this person? how do you know them?, Have you sent a sample you collected your self from the ore vein for assay?
Analyse the situation before the material.
Please tell me you have not paid any money out yet.


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## g_axelsson (May 5, 2017)

Nuwaysolutions said:


> Nuwaysolutions said:
> 
> 
> > g_axelsson said:
> ...


Palladium dissolves in nitric acid. If you have copper and palladium in solution it usually turns into a green tone instead of that clear blue solution you have.

You have an XRF and DMG so you have two ways of testing the material, use that and you will know. I can't tell you what your samples contain, only you can test that.

Instead of posting a screenshot of the spectra you should tell us the results in % or ppm of the different elements, to interpret the spectra you need to do a lot of calculations. The stuff that the instrument does for you.

Göran


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## g_axelsson (May 5, 2017)

By the way, I agree with Justin. Never trust anyone else to send off a sample for assay. Always collect, pack and send samples yourself or by a third party hired by you.
Do not even use tools like shovels or buckets that the seller provides, it's been used before to salt ores and mining sites.

And always mix material well before taking a sample. I think 4metals wrote about "Sampling by coning and quarting" a while ago. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=25196&p=267043#p267028

Göran


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## Reno Chris (May 9, 2017)

I agree that the whole thing does not pass the smell test. Always collect and verify your own samples or you are subject to cheats. Have the direct ore material tested by an independent lab recognized and used by the mining industry. Au, Ag, Pd and Pt and not impossible to analyze, and do not require weird "mad scientist" methods like plasma fusion with metallic copper to extract. To me it looks like a magic trick - the magician diverts your attention to the left while he hides something with his right. Oh and by the way, because they are so very different geochemically, Pt, Au, Ag and Pd almost never occur together in significant amounts.


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