# SSN Leaching



## solarsmith (Dec 22, 2016)

I have a limited amount of very high grade gold/platinum ore. I am planing to do a ssn leach then smelt the concentrates in a microwave. Iv been told the gold platinum content is almost 50 % should I pre wash to start or go straight to the smelt. thanks Bryan in denver colorado


----------



## goldsilverpro (Dec 22, 2016)

It seems like, if it really was 50% Pt/Au, the person that told you it was 50% would not have told you anything. You're a dreamer. No orebody has ever been 50%PMs. It would then be a big chunk of metal, not rocks.


----------



## solarsmith (Dec 22, 2016)

yes I agree with you . and when I look at it with a micro scope I see a lot of gold and silver metal but not 50%. the guy I got it from says he is getting 1 oz beads from his smelts . he is starting with 2 oz of ore. and thats why I say its 50%. metal pgm was I admit a reach , He is selling his beads at pgm prices. 
but back to the question. I would like to know if a pre wash with a dilute acid is in order.


----------



## Platdigger (Dec 23, 2016)

If it is really so rich, why not just smelt it with silver and then proceed?


----------



## solarsmith (Dec 24, 2016)

at the moment the company that was paying 500 an oz is now telling him its 98% lead. I suspect it may have been 98% lead from the start. or he is forgetting to cuppel his beads. when I look at the milled ore under a microscope there is nothing close to 50% percent metal. there is a fair amount of gold showing (free milling)
I will have to get a fire assay to find out the true numbers. xrf reports are off the scale for pgms. I am not a fan of xrf as its over reports most pgms. especialy platinum. I have had a very low trace amount report as 7 oz per ton on my mine. but the xrf is reading this stuff in oz per lb. 

any one have any ideas on a pre wash for this ore . Im sure its going to be a sufide type due to the sulfer smell from when I dryed it on the wood stove... Bryan


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 25, 2016)

Have a fire assay done and that will give you a better direction to make your decision.


----------



## solarsmith (Dec 27, 2016)

any one think a ctric acid or diluted muratic acid for a few hrs warmed would be worth the trouble?

will either remove lead ,zink , iron ?


----------



## jeneje (Dec 28, 2016)

solarsmith said:


> any one think a ctric acid or diluted muratic acid for a few hrs warmed would be worth the trouble?
> 
> will either remove lead ,zink , iron ?


I would not do anything until you get a reliable fire assay done. There is no telling what might be in the ore. 

Ken
ps. Not really on the pre-wash, wait for the assay.


----------



## solarsmith (Dec 29, 2016)

the ore in question is being crushed to sand and then ball milled to 100% minus 200 mesh then reduced via tableing. by 2/3rd 100 lbs to 33 lbs . then in 4 oz lots the cons are
being fired and cuppeled to make a pgm bead that is O.3 oz per lb platinum . and 1.7 oz per lb gold. The owner was doing a acid leach then firing . Im not sure if he is still doing the leach at this time. yes I would think a report like this was bs too . but he is basicly doing a fire assey. 600 oz per ton gold and 1400 oz per ton platinum. and thats why I dont want to mess with it till I know what Im doing. Even I think the #s are insane! I have been hearing stories of ores being perchased based on xrf readings. but my experiance tells me xrf is over reporting. any one have any info on this? and what is the smalest sample a fire assay needs?

Bryan in no known platinum around here colorado. I edited the oz per lb to match what he told me . My bad on posting the wrong #s ...


----------



## jeneje (Dec 29, 2016)

solarsmith said:


> he is basicly doing a fire assey. 600 oz per ton gold and 1400 oz per ton platinum.


Where can I buy this ore? :roll: :roll:  
Ken


----------



## solarsmith (Dec 30, 2016)

Ill ask if he wants to sell it as is. if so I will have a reputable assay done and paper work to go with it on exactly how to do what he is doing with it . I have some of it and I dont believe the numbers of whats in it. 
I will start with a few spot plate test and will post pics. this stuff if as rich as it might be should have an interesting spot test. . my spot plate just got here yesterday. also some fresh stannous chloride. givin the location of the discovery I cant say much about were its from. but be asured every square inch for 2 miles in every direction has been clamed. My bigest question is why did the old timer miners not tap this stuff?
I suspect they were not familar with pt or could not get there temps hot enough to develop a platinum bead .
we are now using micowaves to get a good bead. I realy only am guesing as to how this stuff got left till now.
I have seen long list of mill reports for this mine and have not seen any gold reporting in these quantities ,
and have not seen any pt reports for the county in question. I am truly mystified amazed and skeptical.
Bryan


----------



## jeneje (Dec 30, 2016)

solarsmith said:


> Ill ask if he wants to sell it as is. if so I will have a reputable assay done and paper work to go with it on exactly how to do what he is doing with it . I have some of it and I dont believe the numbers of whats in it.
> I will start with a few spot plate test and will post pics. this stuff if as rich as it might be should have an interesting spot test. . my spot plate just got here yesterday. also some fresh stannous chloride. givin the location of the discovery I cant say much about were its from. but be asured every square inch for 2 miles in every direction has been clamed. My bigest question is why did the old timer miners not tap this stuff?
> I suspect they were not familar with pt or could not get there temps hot enough to develop a platinum bead .
> we are now using micowaves to get a good bead. I realy only am guesing as to how this stuff got left till now.
> ...


HOLD ON just a second here Bryan. I really can't believe the moderators are allowing this to continue. I have several friends that are fire assayers and work with this everyday firing hundreds of samples for major mining operations on a daily basis. This is total BS about the amount of gold and Platinum in the ore. Major mining companies would die to see an assay showing just 5 to 10-PPM of gold never mind the Platinum, they would be writing checks for all kinds of equipment and posting help wanted ads. One thing you must not have caught onto on this forum is we (The forum) know what is real and what is not. Your's falls in the NOT REAL area of things. Sorry to disappoint. 

Ken


----------



## Topher_osAUrus (Dec 30, 2016)

"You know I'm a dreamer... But my ore's of gold.. I had to run away and hide...when my assay came back low..."
:twisted:


----------



## jeneje (Dec 30, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> "You know I'm a dreamer... But my ore's of gold.. I had to run away and hide...when my assay came back low..."
> :twisted:


 :lol: me too, i just throwed the pan down in the creek and left.
Ken


----------



## g_axelsson (Dec 30, 2016)

Ores are complex, it can contain so many different components so there isn't a single method that is suitable to use for all ores.
Without knowing what type of ore, what grade and a number of other factors it is virtually impossible to say how to refine it. At least you should have an assay and a composition of the ore, done on a representative sample of the ore.
A representative sample isn't just a good looking rock pulled from the pile, it should be mixed, crushed and sampled in a number of steps to even out differences between different parts of the ore. And even then it has an uncertainty in the numbers.

Another big question is how much is there? Is it actively mined or a pile in someones back yard?

If you are using an XRF, then test it by doing an XRF on a milled and well mixed sample and then send it off for a fire assay. If the numbers differs then I would distrust the XRF every time.

Some ores also contains hidden dangers, for example arsenic. Just ask Irons, he learned the lesson the hard way.

I know of one mine close by that showed ore samples with up to 2500 g/ton Au, yes, 2.5 gram per kilo and it was so fine that it wasn't visible to the naked eye. That mine never showed a profit, the ore veins were too thin and the amount of barren rock got too high.
Another mine was opened as a copper mine but they really hunted for the rich gold ore shown in a core sample. The mine was barely profitable on the copper but never showed more than 0.1 g/ton. The chief geologist kept that core sample with large flecks of solid gold in his desk to remind him to always look at the numbers and not being blinded by that single spectacular sample.

Take care and don't be fooled by your dreams, believing there is a fortune where there is nothing but a dream.

Göran


----------



## patnor1011 (Dec 30, 2016)

But he is talking about concentrate not "ore" or am I mistaken?


----------



## g_axelsson (Dec 30, 2016)

patnor1011 said:


> But he is talking about concentrate not "ore" or am I mistaken?


He wrote...


solarsmith said:


> the ore in question is being crushed to sand and then ball milled to 100% minus 200 mesh then reduced via tableing. by 2/3rd 100 lbs to 33 lbs


Being, not has been... but in any way, a concentrate has the same problems as a raw ore, just easier to sample if all the ore has been milled already.

Bryan asked a number of specifics on an unknown ore with unknown composition.
It's like I would come here and ask how to refine the gold from a piece of metal with an unknown composition.

I have never worked with ores. I have only seen how the mines around here is doing it and no one is doing SSN-leach on ores. The methods used are cyanide leaching, gravimetric methods and flotation. Then the concentrate is roasted and smelted. So I can't give any answers on his questions, just trying to help him ask the right questions.

Göran


----------



## solarsmith (Dec 30, 2016)

as was reported to me the cons are 1.7 oz gold. and 0.3 oz platinum. my origonal post had the wrong numbers. the cons were reduced by 2/3rds 100 lbs =33 lbs the origonal sample was givin to me as 4 3gal buckets of sand . I milled them and returned them to the owner and he kindly let me keep a portion.
the owner has been doing a acid leach with a t6 drop folowed by a cuppel and getting a 2 oz bead! he has told me it is all pgms with the above numbers. I have not quite drank the koolaid yet and I view all of this as a posible mistake in the math. does he just have a big bead of zink? will t6 drop more than pgms? you are all asking good questions. the sample size was 200 lbs so you can rule out the hot rock problem. My job right now has me so busy I cant get over to lab to get a good assay done but I will at my first chance do so.

the numbers are as out there to me as they are for you . I will get to the bottom of this soon .

keep the questions comeing . thanks Bryan


----------



## Platdigger (Dec 31, 2016)

Yes, t6 (actually TR6) was made to take metals out of water and will drop just about everything at the right ph.


----------



## solarsmith (Dec 31, 2016)

that fits with what he has been telling me . He is controling the drop using ph. I have no experiance with it and I am wondering if controling the ph will control what drops when using t6 ? any one know what it is or how to get it. Bryan


----------



## Platdigger (Jan 1, 2017)

here tiz http://waterspecialists.biz/wp/?page_id=66


----------



## solarsmith (Jan 1, 2017)

question. does the aqua regia pregnant solution need to be nutralized first befor doing a stanous test?
I see some do this and others dont? Bryan and thanks for the tr6 link.


----------



## Topher_osAUrus (Jan 1, 2017)

Not necessarily.
But if you used too much oxidizer and try to test, it may redissolve the result immediately, or may not even let the reaction occur. So too much oxidizer can be misleading, but I dont think you want to neutralize your ar. Just denox.


----------



## solarsmith (Jan 2, 2017)

when I added a few drops to the preg aqua regia solution it turned a dark grey for just a few seconds and then back to the nice yellow that I see in all the aucloride pics. so my thoughts are it may be to hot of a mix to react and stay reacted. (Denox where have I seen that?) :roll: hmmmm. Bryan In denver.


----------



## Topher_osAUrus (Jan 2, 2017)

You're adding the drops to the entire solution?....and not to a small test sample of the solution? Thats not a wise decision, as all that is needed is one or two drops of the "pregnant solution" and one or two of the stannous.


----------



## solarsmith (Jan 2, 2017)

yes thats how Im doing it. but not waiting 24 hrs for the sample to compleatly react may be the problem. 
Bryan In denver.


----------



## solarsmith (Jan 2, 2017)

this is my small sample from aqua regia digest of about half a gram of 100% 200 mesh, non concentrated, suspected high grade ore. (needs denox)
Bryan in Denver colorado


----------



## Topher_osAUrus (Jan 2, 2017)

Now I'm confused (even more so)

You were adding stannous to your mother liquor?

Just take a qtip and get a small bit of the pregnant solution or a pipette with a couple drops and put it in a spot plate, then add a drop of stannous and view the reaction that takes place.

Stannous chloride tests dont need 24 hours for results.
They are instantaneous (or should be)


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 3, 2017)

Hi!
Are there anyone here that has tried actual SSN leaching?
I there a SSCl leach as well?

This thread seems to gone into ore quality discussions and the use of other well established techniques :wink: 

I found an interesting document on the topic in Aflacglobals library Scribd, just search for "Leaching with SSN" on google

But this leads to a question: Are there ways to control Eh in stead of Ph?
If one could control the Eh electrically in stead of Ph we could keep the liquor intact without the need to spend acid and alkalis to chase the Ph up an down to obtain the precipitations we want.
Can this be another use for a modified carbon cell?


----------



## Gratilla (Jan 3, 2017)

1) Acid side leaches require BOTH an acid (for low pH) and an oxidizing agent (for high Eh). For SSN the Eh is controlled by the N in SSN as N(itric acid) is both an acid and a strong oxidizing agent. If the Cl stands for HCl then I doubt that SSCl will work as it lacks an oxidizing agent. If the Cl is from one of the hypochlorites, then that's a different matter.

2) If the book you found is the one I'm thinking of, then you'll find interesting Pourbaix diagrams showing Ph and, if you look VERY carefully, Eh regions for successfully leaching the PGMs.

3) Some of my (not entirely successful) adventures with chasing pH/Eh up and down during SSN leaches are reported on the forum and can probably be found with a S(earch).

4) Eh is, of course, a measure of redox potential and can be amended by adding appropriate oxidizing/reducing (chemical) agents. I have no experience changing Eh electrically.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 3, 2017)

Thanks Gratilla!
I was just hoping there was a shortcut, as most of the times I guess my hope overshot the target.
I was looking at the Pourbaix diagrams and they looked promising.
Since Nitric is one of the hard to get chemicals many places it would have been sweet to use the maximum out of it .
But c'est la vie I guess.

Thanks anyway


----------



## Gratilla (Jan 4, 2017)

The vast majority of problems I've seen reported from people using SSN is that they pay no attention to Eh.The acceptably high Eh from freshly made SSN very quickly drops below the threshold for solubilizing PGMs when mixed with a typical ore. Gold is subsequently not dissolved and stannous tests fail.

You can find much more information in the threads turned up on a search of "gratilla ssn" <blush>.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 4, 2017)

Hi!
I did  
But I also see that the initial glimmer and hope fades a a bit.
I'll still keep it in the back of my head.
Can it be used with any kind of oxidizers?


----------



## Gratilla (Jan 5, 2017)

Yggdrasil said:


> Can it be used with any kind of oxidizers?



I don't get what exactly you're asking.

There are many acid/oxidizer chemical pairs for acid side leaching.
(As compared to alkali side such as cyanide.)


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 5, 2017)

I'll try to rephrase it  
SS(N) is for nitric, can it be used with peroxide or any other kind of oxidizer?
TCCA(Trichloroisocyanuric acid), bubbling Cl or even Oxygen through it?

If so, it might be a cheap and easy way of dissolving Base metals.
Just dump whatever pins, incinerated chips or whatever into a a saturated brine.
Then add a splash of nitric, peroxide or whatever and start the air bubbler.
It will be important in such a scenario that the Eh and Ph do not reach levels that touch the Au/Pt/Pd/Ag you are looking to reclaim.

In hindsight it may not need extra oxidizer at all to take out most BMs.

Do anyone have a view on this, is it plausible?


----------



## Gratilla (Jan 11, 2017)

Yggdrasil said:


> SS(N) is for nitric, can it be used with peroxide or any other kind of oxidizer?
> TCCA(Trichloroisocyanuric acid), bubbling Cl or even Oxygen through it?



Peroxide can be used as an additive (to enhance Eh), but obviously not as a replacement to the nitric, as that would eliminate the required acid component.

Bear in mind that the BMs in general need a much lower Eh that the PGMs so the SSN can be used for the former long after it's useless for the latter.

Bear in mind also that the oxidizers have different redox potentials, so O3 > H2O2 > O2.

If you haven't already done so, get yourself an Eh meter. I've been using a Hannah Eh/pH/temp meter - reliable and relatively expensive.


----------

