# Touchpad Recovery



## chefjosh77 (Sep 16, 2010)

I am at the recovery stage for my mountain of touchpads. any advise as to methods? I have the electrolyte cell , AP, and AR, I am most comfortable with the chemical processes, but the touch boards have surface mount components on the bottom that I don't really want to deal with chemically. Any advice? should I just nuke them all with AR or does anyone have a process laid out? Thanks as always!


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## patnor1011 (Sep 16, 2010)

I do not think that other side is problem. There is only few things there. I just put them in HCl/H2O2 (AP) and at the end I have nice square foils floating around in my bucket.


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## Lino1406 (Sep 17, 2010)

Remove with a plier or cutter, this will give you
a neater job


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## rmi2416 (May 10, 2011)

I also have some touchpads I was thinking about trying to get the gold but I did have a question if I did not feel safe using the sodium hydroxide removal of the solder mask, would the Solder mask play that big of a role in an AP process. If so is there any way to get around like more cleaning of the foils later or and extra chemical bath of sorts. I looked up N-methyl pyrrlidone and it rather pricey. I have recently just started and can not find the actual effects of solder mask in the AP process other than the green pieces you have after filtering you have to pick out. 

Regards,
Ross


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## chefjosh77 (May 11, 2011)

In the touch pads that I have come across, the solder mask would be a factor. The gold you see on in the pictures was under a layer of green solder mask. I'm not sure of the time difference if the mask is left intact, but I would guess that it would require a lot more agitation or aeration because of far less surface area for the etchant to attack. For me a dilute lye solution, heated, solved the mask problem. I scraped the surface mount devices off of the opposing side, so there would be no reaction with any aluminum components. My crock pot holds enough to process 2lbs at a time, and the lye heats up when added to the water so i don't have to wait for them to warm up. Then its off the the AP reaction bucket to process like fingers. I have had good results with this method, but Im not sure of the yields. I would estimate that I get close to the ISA style close cut fingers yields, but I have a much lower volume of touchpads so I haven't really figured a ratio.

hope this helps.


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## Anonymous (May 11, 2011)

Make sure you do not heat up your lye solution to a boil.Myself,and at least one other member,has witness gold being dissolved into the lye solution.


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## dtectr (May 11, 2011)

Some touchpads use an adhesive to attach the gray plastic sheet, so even if you can peel the plastic off, the the contact cement-type residue would still shield the gold from the AP. Hot lye takes care of this, as well. Just be SUPER CAREFUL.

IMHO
Lye is VERY nasty (see Safety warnings, msds, etc.), yes, but I consider it a "natural" product, in that, lye was originally "dripped" from wood ashes, resulting in a dilute, brown colored lye solution, which could be later purified & concentrated. 

Though I wouldn't call it "safe" - I consider it to be safer than industrial solvents.


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## rmi2416 (May 14, 2011)

so when I stick the TP's in the lye solution in a crock pot. Should I turn the crock pot on low. Does this also remove the adhesive on the front and the solder mask on the back?


Regards,
Ross


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## rmi2416 (Jun 3, 2011)

OK so I think I have got all the material to do this. I still have a few questions and would like some advise. My questions are as follows.

How much lye per fluid ounce of water?

What temp is a "good" temp for this technique?

Can I put my lye and water solution down a drain when I am done?


I plan on using RED DEVIL lye made for plumbing.

Best Regards,
Ross


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## dtectr (Jun 3, 2011)

You must have that jar of lye laying around a while - According to my soap-making friends, Red Devil quit manufacturing their pure lye product a few years ago, because people kept "looking down the drain" after they added it to bust up a clog, and "Ka-Blamm!" lawsuit.

If anyone was injured while using this product this way, I'm not making light of it, really. 

But, I digress ...


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## rmi2416 (Jun 3, 2011)

dtectr said:


> You must have that jar of lye laying around a while - According to my soap-making friends, Red Devil quit manufacturing their pure lye product a few years ago, because people kept "looking down the drain" after they added it to bust up a clog, and "Ka-Blamm!" lawsuit.
> 
> If anyone was injured while using this product this way, I'm not making light of it, really.
> 
> But, I digress ...



Thanks for the information.
Hmm is only the pure lye ok for removing the mask or can I use the diluted new kind with anti kaabooom and heat just the same. I Plan on doing it outside with gloves and goggles on. I found the most amazing crockpot set up for heating solutions.


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## Oz (Jun 4, 2011)

Red Devil Lye went off of the store shelves because it was being used for illicit drug manufacture. 

Having said that, just because lye is often a “naturally derived” product does not make it better or safer than other chemicals. 30 some years ago I dripped my own lye for soap and other things, there is no armchair speculation on my part here. Most acids even in concentrated form are not as hazardous as concentrated lye can be as a base. 

On the topic of naturally derived, I have had many women that felt they were too heavy come to me asking about “all natural” appetite suppressants and weight loss herbs. Being an herbalist from way back I could read the plant names on their “all natural” products and tell them how many of them were amphetamines. They were just not regulated as such.

Do not fool yourself.

Bottom line is that “all natural” is not all safe! Heroin, strychnine, cocaine, and cyanide are all naturally derived. I would rather dip my whole hand into concentrated nitric or hydrochloric acid than put 1 inch of one finger into a concentrated lye solution. 

Now this is a pet peeve of mine or a soap box issue if you wish. I have also used some key words that may draw criticism from outside the forum as well as that of other moderators. Let me be clear, illicit use of chemicals will never be tolerated on this forum! I only used the above examples to slam home the fact that natural does not mean safe. Do not be lulled into a false sense of security just because you are using a natural product.

I fully expect (and wish) the other moderators to police my commentary and delete and/or edit as they see fit what I have written. As stated, it is a pet peeve issue with me that people equate natural as safe. It is plain bullcr$&, and in the case of over the counter “natural” weight loss products, damned disingenuous as to the hazards, as I have never seen 1 that is not amphetamine based, regulated plant/substance or not.


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## qst42know (Jun 4, 2011)

Has anyone confirmed Red Devil was pulled for it's illicit use? 

It could be the victim of declining market from the use of more trouble free plastic plumbing, iron pipes being prone to regular clogs, or the profit margin in selling far more diluted products, almost all others have some lye in them. It could be they didn't have a broad enough product base or advertising budget to stay competitive.


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## Oz (Jun 4, 2011)

I can only say that the local hardware and grocery stores in “my” area that used to stock it no longer do. When I asked why it was no longer on the shelves, these businesses that I had dealt with long enough that I was now talking to a second or third generation owner simply stated what I commented above. I have placed special orders though these businesses in the past that were not standard stock items, and Red Devil Lye was simply unavailable to them. Fortunately I live near large Mennonite and Amish communities that still use it for soap and are a little behind the times as to concerns of illicit use.

The plumbing is not the issue as lye is more friendly to modern plastics than the 98% concentrated sulfuric acid is (just do not mix the 2 if the first one fails to clear your clog). As to dilution of products, the lye is usually 99% solid and the sulfuric is typically 98% liquid for drain clog removal products. I refuse to go into greater detail in a public venue.


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## rmi2416 (Jun 4, 2011)

Well I understand what your saying OZ i was just trying to find the cheapest way to remove my solder mask from a bunch of touchpads. Sodium hydroxide like in Lasresteve's video is hard to find around here. Would anyone recommend a different way to go about removing my solder mask. I have a couple of pounds of them and Im itching to get them in some AP but I really need to clean them up first.


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## Palladium (Jun 4, 2011)

Have you tried small grocery stores? I buy mine from a small, well medium size grocery store. It's called rooto drain cleaner, but is 100% sodium hydroxide. I think the last i bought was in a 1 lb plastic jug and it cost like $ 1.50 - $2.00.


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 4, 2011)

I recently bought a 2# container of 100% sodium hydroxide in a Lowe's in Alabama. It was with the drain cleaners.

Always wear, at the least, a full face shield and chemical resistant gloves. One of the most painful things is to get NaOH, solid or liquid, under your fingernail.


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## qst42know (Jun 4, 2011)

I don't see the Red Devil brand any more I used to buy it at Ace hardware, but I can still find lye. They closed the Ace near me or I would check. I also bought some at Lowes.


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## rmi2416 (Jun 4, 2011)

hey thanks guys I will hit up Lowes today so I can get started.

Anyone still have a solution formula or reference point for how I can dispose of it when I am done and how concentrated to make my solution?


Best Regards,
Ross


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## qst42know (Jun 4, 2011)

Be sure to ask for a copy of the MSDS, good to have around and they had two products in similar containers one 100% lye and one a blend.


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## butcher (Jun 6, 2011)

Use the caustic waste you generate, to neutralize the acidic waste you generate.

NaOH + HCl --> NaCl + H2O, 
(caustic soda and hydrochloric acid neutral PH is salt water).

Raising the PH to around 9 will precipitate most dangerous metals in solution.

Editing to add additional Idea:

Use caustic waste to make hydrogen gas for a torch, or just to remove aluminum from something.

One mans waste is another mans treasure think recycle not disposal.


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## solar_plasma (Mar 22, 2013)

> Some touchpads use an adhesive to attach the gray plastic sheet



I just removed it by putting the pad into nail polishcleaner (non-acetone), two days after the adhesive could easilyand quickly be rubbed of.


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## drlonzo (Jul 19, 2013)

This is sort of off subject but do all touchpads have the gold plating or are there just certain ones? If just certain ones can anyone shed some light on what brands to look out for? Thanks,


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## solar_plasma (Jul 19, 2013)

edit:


> This is sort of off subject but do all touchpads have the gold plating or are there just certain ones? If just certain ones can anyone shed some light on what brands to look out for?



I have only scrapped maybe 6-10 notebooks. As far as I remember were all devices made by Synaptics with gold plating. Though I remember there was only two of them all that had a good plating, the rest had that very thin plating which almost looks silverish. I am more or less sure the good ones were Synaptics - would be fine, if someone could validate this.


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## rickbb (Jul 19, 2013)

I'm not kicking myself for not seeing this post a few months ago. Just the thought of that pallet load of notebooks that I paid to have hauled off. sigh


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## solar_plasma (Jul 21, 2013)

> This is sort of off subject but do all touchpads have the gold plating or are there just certain ones? If just certain ones can anyone shed some light on what brands to look out for?



I just found one made by Synaptics, which is very thin gold plated like those vibra soundcards.


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## Geo (Jul 21, 2013)

any gold content is still gold and should be reclaimed. for the touch pads, make sure all the glue is removed first. use a piece of copper mesh cloth and cut a strip as wide as the board and twice as long. fold the piece in half long-wise. add a couple of copper clips and you have made an anode basket for a stripping cell. aside from the electricity, everything else is re-usable.


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