# Rookie in need of help plz



## Arekkusu28 (Aug 5, 2016)

Im new at this. I jumped the gun before doing more research on what steps I need to take and in what order. You read and hear different things from different sources. I put about 150+ grams of gold plated computer pins directly into aqua regia. Obviously all the metals are dissolved but i'm curious if I can still precipitate just the gold using SMB after neutralizing the acid or because other metals are present probably copper and possibly nickle do I need to get those other metals out before precipitating the gold?


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 6, 2016)

I did this and it turned almost black. After denoxing the nitric I precipitated and got gold powder back. Granted I may have lost values, but I did reclaim gold chloride. I then washed it in hot hcl and it came out to 1.1gram.


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## Arekkusu28 (Aug 6, 2016)

Yes my solution is black. How did you denox it? Urea? Did you use SMB to precipitate the gold?


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 6, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> I did this and it turned almost black. After denoxing the nitric I precipitated and got gold powder back. Granted I may have lost values, but I did reclaim gold chloride. I then washed it in hot hcl and it came out to 1.1gram.



Gold chloride is when gold is dissolved into solution, ar/hcl+bleach...even peroxide and hcl, create gold chloride. After it is precipitated, it is then gold metal. Yes, it doesnt look like gold, but it is. You can take your powder and press it hard between a porcelain spoon and dish and see gold powder turn shiney like everyone is used to seeing gold.

And OP, test your solution, then smb, then throw in a copper bus bar.

Edit to add, denox with sulfamic, urea causes problems if there are pgms or if you are too heavy handed with it. Sulfamic does double duty.

Getting rid of base metals is always your best bet


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 6, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> myfalconry76 said:
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> > I did this and it turned almost black. After denoxing the nitric I precipitated and got gold powder back. Granted I may have lost values, but I did reclaim gold chloride. I then washed it in hot hcl and it came out to 1.1gram.
> ...


 aurachloric acid when desolved in solution, the precipitated gold is in salt form so it becomes gold chloride a solid. How is this not right when it seems to be a pretty standard term used by chemist? Seriously am I missing somthing? Hast as I've read stanachloric acid is the test solution. Stannous chloride is the actual salt of precipitated tin.


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 6, 2016)

Arekkusu28 said:


> Yes my solution is black. How did you denox it? Urea? Did you use SMB to precipitate the gold?


Sufalmic acid tile cleaner. 120g of pins you won't get much gold though. I did about 800g and got around a gram.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 6, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> Topher_osAUrus said:
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Auric chloride or aurochloric acid is the same as gold chloride, as it is metal in a salt (chloride) form, when we add smb, it returns the gold to its elemental form. Though it is finely divided and does not reflect light as a gold nugget would.

When we "drop" pgms they are still an insoluble salt form, which must be calcined or converted still before melting.

When we test with stannous, is it a colloidal gold that we see, not tin, as the tin replaces the gold in solution and the colloidal gold forms as purple of cassius.

Im pretty sure anyways.. If not, I know someone will correct it.


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 6, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> myfalconry76 said:
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See it was my understanding that the combination of hcl and nitric that caused oxidation that caused the gold to to release a molecule of something ( I can't remember what molecule) and replaces it with a o2 molecule that allows the gd to oxidize and dissolve into Au chloric acid. Then the smb nutrilized that affect but not adding back the molecule but precipitating it as a chloride or salt. Then by heating the gold to melting point it allows it to reclaim that mecule and become gold metal. If my understanding is wrong. I to would like to know exactly what those on! These things are very interesting to me. Hopefully we get the right answer from someone here.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 6, 2016)

It becomes a salt when it is dissolved by the nitrosyl chloride (NOCl, created in the AR), when we reduce it with smb (SO2 gas) we are giving back the electrons lost when it was oxidized.

That is why we can immediately melt it without calcining it or further reducing it to metallic form like AgCl and the pgms


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 6, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> See it was my understanding that the combination of hcl and nitric that caused oxidation that caused the gold to to release a molecule of something ( I can't remember what molecule) and replaces it with a o2 molecule that allows the gd to oxidize and dissolve into Au chloric acid.


When gold is dissolved in the combination of HCl and nitric, it is oxidized. That means the gold gives up an electron and becomes an ion. It does not give up a molecule of anything and it is not replaced by an O2 molecule.



> Then the smb nutrilized that affect but not adding back the molecule but precipitating it as a chloride or salt.


When SMB is added, it creates SO2, which is a reducing agent. A reducing agent willingly donates an electron to the gold ion, converting it back to elemental, metallic gold.



> Then by heating the gold to melting point it allows it to reclaim that mecule and become gold metal.


The gold is already metallic gold. It does not need to reclaim any molecule to become gold. It simply needs to be melted.

Please take your time when posting. Use the Preview button to read your posts for errors before pressing the Submit button. A spell checker would also help.

Dave


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 6, 2016)

FrugalRefiner said:


> myfalconry76 said:
> 
> 
> > See it was my understanding that the combination of hcl and nitric that caused oxidation that caused the gold to to release a molecule of something ( I can't remember what molecule) and replaces it with a o2 molecule that allows the gd to oxidize and dissolve into Au chloric acid.
> ...


Forgive me for the molecule thing and replace It with ion. I knew it was something like that. That's what I get for trying to read and not using my text to speech app. I forget stuff. Its really odd I can here something once and remember it for life. I read something I forget it when I hit the end of the sentence. 
Intresting thanx for sharing that bit of info.


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 6, 2016)

You think that's bad you should see me try to spell with out auto correct. Its really bad. I'm so dislexic that my dog walks backwards! :lol:


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 6, 2016)

Here's the bit I got from my pins I did this way. It still turned out with fairly good color


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## butcher (Aug 7, 2016)

myfalconry76,
It may look to be a little, but that is a big deal.


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## Arekkusu28 (Aug 7, 2016)

So, what do I do with what I have right now, solution wise? Aurachloric acid? Sufalmic acid? Then what? Smb?


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 7, 2016)

Hey Dave if gold give up a electron so easy why isn't it that easy to get lead to give one up?


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 7, 2016)

Arekkusu28 said:


> So, what do I do with what I have right now, solution wise? Aurachloric acid? Sufalmic acid? Then what? Smb?


I nutrilized with sulfalmic acid precipitated with smb.
But to be honest, not to be harsh! You really should have known this befor you started. It really cuts down on the headaches. Or you can just evaporate off your nitric rehydrate with hcl adjust you ph and then drop with smb. And I'm still a baby fresh newly to refining and am still not sure I done it right. But I did get Au back.


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 7, 2016)

butcher said:


> myfalconry76,
> It may look to be a little, but that is a big deal.


I wish I could have got it hot enough to button up, but I ran out gas. Got plenty oxygen. But I used the most of my gas cutting up a trailer frame. Ran out as it started to melt had to switch to a propane torch.


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 7, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> Hey Dave if gold give up a electron so easy why isn't it that easy to get lead to give one up?


Gold does not give up electrons easily. That's why it's considered a noble metal. A strong oxidizer, like nitric acid, chlorine, hydrogen peroxide, etc. is required. 

Lead is oxidized by nitric acid too. It is more easily oxidized than gold, so it is also oxidized by the oxygen in air. If you melt lead and cast it, it will be bright and shiny. After some exposure to air, it will become oxidized, forming a thin layer of dull lead oxide. Once this layer forms, it protects the underlying metal from further oxidation.

Dave


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 7, 2016)

FrugalRefiner said:


> myfalconry76 said:
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> > Hey Dave if gold give up a electron so easy why isn't it that easy to get lead to give one up?
> ...


Once again I was thinking wrong, I should have thinking protons not electrons. Duh.


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## butcher (Aug 7, 2016)

Arekkusu28 said:


> So, what do I do with what I have right now, solution wise? Aurachloric acid? Sulfamic acid? Then what? SMB?



I would consider what you had was an attempt at a recovery process (one normally not recommended).
With that much base metal involved, I personally would not consider using a refining process to recover the gold from solution, i.e. de-noxing and using a reducing agent like FeSO4 or SMB...

I would use a replacement reaction --if I had lots of free nitric I would consider dissolving more material to use up most of the free nitric acid, this is unnecessary but I could get more gold into solution and not waste what acid I already had in solution. 
Ensure the solution was acidic and recover the gold using copper metal to replace gold in solution.
Then if there was enough gold recovered I would then refine it in a refining process...
If only a tiny amount of gold was recovered I would save it until I had enough to process (recovering or refining lots of small lots, with a little loss in each one, can add up to a lot of gold over time).
Aqua regia in general, does not make a good recovery process, I stay away from it whenever I can.

Arekkusu28, 
You are new to this. I was too. My suggestion is to spend much more time studying and less time in your lab trying things you are unsure of yet. I know I wish I would have done that when I first started I would not have made as many mistakes or lost so much of my gold in the learning process.
I suggest at first Limit your lab work on Hoke's experiments and expanding them with what you learn on the forum with electronic scrap. this way you get in your lab time and gain a good understanding of how this all works or why it won't work...


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 7, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> FrugalRefiner said:
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If it was giving up protons, it would be moving down periodic table, changing elements. Acids give up a proton, but that is because of the H+, as Hydrogen only has 1 proton, no neutron, deuterium (heavy hydrogen) has one of each. But, we don't deal with that in acids.
I havent had my coffee yet, that might not make perfect sense


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 7, 2016)

butcher said:


> Arekkusu28 said:
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> > So, what do I do with what I have right now, solution wise? Aurachloric acid? Sulfamic acid? Then what? SMB?
> ...



Best advice ever, I wish i could say that i followed it when i was first starting to recover/refine..


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## myfalconry76 (Aug 7, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> myfalconry76 said:
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 That's what we would all want, down the table by 3. I know for hundreds of years it been tried to get lead to let go of three protons but hey. One can dream can't they.


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