# Is it economical for amature to extract silver from rock?



## Bentfunky (Jul 4, 2020)

Went looking for gold but instead found silver. Initial impression is that there is a decent amount of silver in source rock. Used nitric to extract silver from small crushed sample. Will get an assay to get actual silver value and check for PGMs. Don't see much gold.

Here's a question. Is it we economical for an amateur to extract silver from ore if gold and PGM values turn out to be negligible? My impression is that silver concentration would have to be phenomenally good to make processing worthwhile (for an amature).

Anyone have experience with this situation? Would appreciate some experience based insight.


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## kurtak (Jul 4, 2020)

Leaching metals from ore with chemicals (acids) is never a good idea (other then maybe for "small" testing)

How do you know its silver if you have not had an assay done yet ?

Silver from ore is generally done with a smelting process rather then a leaching process

whether it is worth it or not "requires" an assay on the ore "first"

Kurt


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## Bentfunky (Jul 4, 2020)

kurtak said:


> Leaching metals from ore with chemicals (acids) is never a good idea (other then maybe for "small" testing)
> 
> How do you know its silver if you have not had an assay done yet ?
> 
> ...



To provide more context ...

I'm well acquainted with the process of refining silver metal with nitric, precipitating it out of solution as silver chloride, and converting silver chloride into metal in a furnace. 

Granted, this is ore and not native metal alone, but this was a small, one-off test on a well prepared sample. It's silver. If I wasn't sure, I could always check specific gravity of resultant metal to verify. 

The question was really asking if silver can be mined and processed into metal profitably WITHOUT the economies of scale inherent with a large operation. My intuition is that a small scale, amature operation couldn't do it given silver's relatively low value compared to gold, PGMs. However, this is just a guess, so looking for insight from those with more experience than I have. Maybe, I'm wrong.


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## jimdoc (Jul 4, 2020)

Are you testing for hazardous elements in your rocks, or just the precious metals?


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## galenrog (Jul 4, 2020)

To answer the question of whether it is economically feasible to extract silver from ore using nitric acid, the answer, for a myriad of reasons is NO. It is also hazardous, as there typically are many components with most silver ores that will produce hazardous gasses when exposed to nitric acid.

Where did you learn that this may be a good idea? I like to know where bad information comes from.

Time for more coffee.


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## jarlowski1 (Jul 4, 2020)

I would have also said no that it is not really feasible on a small scale given its relatively low value. However if for a hobby then your time is your own business. As others have said ores will a lot of the time contain very nasty compounds and you need to respect that.


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## Bentfunky (Jul 4, 2020)

galenrog said:


> To answer the question of whether it is economically feasible to extract silver from ore using nitric acid, the answer, for a myriad of reasons is NO. It is also hazardous, as there typically are many components with most silver ores that will produce hazardous gasses when exposed to nitric acid.
> 
> Where did you learn that this may be a good idea? I like to know where bad information comes from.
> 
> Time for more coffee.



I'm going to need some more coffee, I think.

Ok... I do NOT intend, nor have I ever intended to process ore en masse using nitric acid to leach silver, gold or anything else. Among many other reasons, that would be way too expensive WRT cost of acid and safe handling and disposal. I find even industry standard leaching operations such as cyanide leaching to be absolutely terrifying.

I ran a one-off test on a very small, well prepared sample because I wanted to see a little physical proof that I had silver. I did this safely wearing protective gear and outside. In the worst case, I wouldn't get useful results. I am done with the nitric acid and put it back in the cabinet. 

Let me start over with my question.

I have silver ore that looks pretty good. Right now, this is an educated guess, but will be sending ore out for assay to determine what silver values actually are and whether there are other more valuable minerals in ore such as PGMs. 

Until I receive assay results back on samples, I'm proceeding on the assumption that I only have silver. First question in my mind is, "what is the likelihood that an amateur could extract silver from ore profitably?" I'm inclined to think that only a large scale operation could make a profit with silver, but this is only a guess. I'm looking for a more informed answer. Hence the question. 

I don't have any particular ore procesing methodology in mind right now, because that would be putting the cart several miles in front of the cart.


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## jimdoc (Jul 4, 2020)

Pictures may help you get some better advice. 

You know so people can see what you say "looks pretty good".


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## Lino1406 (Jul 4, 2020)

Hot sulfuric also can dissolve silver. And probably preliminary roasting can help


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## galenrog (Jul 5, 2020)

Please excuse my misunderstanding your original question. The answer, however, is still NO. You can, however, learn a lot by using different techniques used in ore extraction today. A proper assay on your ore to determine other metals, gangue material, and potentially dangerous compounds is essential from economic, procedural, and safety perspectives. 

In other words, proper interpretation of assay results will determine the methods required to recover values safely and economically from your ore.

Time for more coffee.


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## Bentfunky (Jul 7, 2020)

galenrog said:


> Please excuse my misunderstanding your original question. The answer, however, is still NO. You can, however, learn a lot by using different techniques used in ore extraction today. A proper assay on your ore to determine other metals, gangue material, and potentially dangerous compounds is essential from economic, procedural, and safety perspectives.
> 
> In other words, proper interpretation of assay results will determine the methods required to recover values safely and economically from your ore.
> 
> Time for more coffee.



No worries. Appreciate input from you and others. Gotta send for assay at the end of the day. Just too easy to see what you want to see. This sample is a solid chunk of iron oxides and some sulfides.


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## RICOCHETAZ (Apr 9, 2022)

Hello BentFunky, I am brand new to this wonderful world of ore’s, testing, refining, etc. Did you ever procure an answer to your question, what is the likelihood that an amateur could extract silver from ore profitably? I am VERY interested in your answer as I supposedly have access to a large amount of silver ore the grade is unknown to me and an assay at this time is not a financially viable thing. 
It would be great if there were a processing method for a broad spectrum 
Of silver ores that was safe, and cheap to do batches of about 1-2 ton.
Good luck to you and, happy trails. 
R in Pantano, AZ. Yes the ghost town.


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## jobinyt (Apr 9, 2022)

I'd say what/if you can profitably extract depends greatly on the ore. If you're looking at native silver ore - think Cobalt Ontario - it should be easy. If you've got a sulfide - common - the environmental/safety/and economics are fraught.


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## goldshark (Apr 10, 2022)

If you cannot afford a $50 assay, you will never have the financial ability to process even a ton of 300 oz. per ton ore. Most replacement type silver ores occur in limestone, however there are some high grade ores in quartz. If in limestone, the calcium carbonate will neutralize your acid(s) in very short work. So that is a big NO. If in the sulfide form, it would be a concentration to separate sulfides from limestone, roast concentrates to oxide, then maybe acid would work. Native silver is generally worth more as specimens, so don't reduce them. Your ore looks to have some galena in it, argentiferous possibly. Only way I would attempt a ton of 300 oz. silver, would be to jaw crush, careful impact as to not over crush, pour it in a homemade floatation unit, skim the bubbles manually, dry, smelt, Parkes process, resmelt, pour into shot, acid refine. I think at this time you will see that you are into it for about $30,000, not including permits for a mill, or penalties if you get caught with out them.Long story short one ton of 300 oz. ore will net $6,000. I would not attempt such an endeavor unless I had 100 tons of this ore. Just a Single Wild Ass Guess, is that your ore may have 10 ozs. per ton, if you are lucky. I would see what kind of reserves you have, do an assay, then make your decision. There are a bunch of different leach solutions which may work, but you will need to have a lab find what process will work without much size reduction. Again costing $$$. I hope this helps, and I am not being negative, just realistic. Gold/Silver fever can be a costly disease.


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## eduardo.met (Apr 11, 2022)

Bentfunky said:


> Went looking for gold but instead found silver. Initial impression is that there is a decent amount of silver in source rock. Used nitric to extract silver from small crushed sample. Will get an assay to get actual silver value and check for PGMs. Don't see much gold.
> 
> Here's a question. Is it we economical for an amateur to extract silver from ore if gold and PGM values turn out to be negligible? My impression is that silver concentration would have to be phenomenally good to make processing worthwhile (for an amature).
> 
> Anyone have experience with this situation? Would appreciate some experience based insight.


The answer based on experience is No. However, it is just a matter of experimenting assuming you have a small amount of ore. What you can do is leach the ore with NaCN and use activated carbon to trap the precious metals and then do electrowinning with not too complex lab instruments. But if you do not have experience with the use of cyanide, I do not recommend it at all because you have to control the ph and concentration of it because you could generate hydrogen cyanide gas that is lethal. 
Best regards
Eduado.met


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## shrewdly (Apr 16, 2022)

Just a short note. Can an amateur economically recover silver from an ore. Answer Yes, maybe, no. This all depends on the grade of your ore, the amount of ore your have, what you have to do to get the ore out of the ground, and the extraction technique you use to get the silver out of the rock. First, determine the grade of your ore. Take several samples from different locations on your sample. These samples should be representative of the overall material present, not the high grade ore. Sample size should be 3-4 lbs made up of a number of smaller pieces. Sent this off to an assay lab for analysis, AA/ICP assays are fast and relatively inexpensive. This will give you the metal content of your ore which you need to do a valuation. Do not discount the other metals present in your ore. They can often pay your operating costs. For metal pricing I use the London Metal Exchanges (LME) a lot commercial contracts use it for their prices. Next, determine your tonnage, how much actual material you have. I like to use metric measurements because it's easier to convert volumes to tonnage. One cubic meter of water is one metric tonne. The specific gravity of water is one, the general specific gravity of rock varies from 2.7 to 3.2, I generallly use 3 as it is easy to work with. Multiple the volume of rock you have in cubic meters by the specific gravity and you get your tonnage. Third step, extraction and recovery of the metals present. Extraction of minerals is simply a matter of reducing your ore size to a point where you have discrete individual particles of waste and mineral, Then you can do a separation. The most commonly used separation techniques are leaching, gravity and flotation. If you have small quantities you can crush it with a hammer and pan it out. Personally I prefer a gravity separation for small scale operations. No chemicals are required and the equipment is simple to operate. A hammer mill does a decent job of crushng material down to a usable size for extraction and is relatively inexpensive. The equipment for gravity separations varies from sluice boxes, to rockers, jigs and shaker tables. I like shaker tables as you can actually see the product as it comes of the table. This makes it easier to fine tune your system. Your concentrates can sold to local refineries. I would keep any metallics (native metals) for refining my yourself.


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## mousewallrat (Oct 15, 2022)

This is an interesting thread. I’m in the same position as Bentfunky. I have a silver mine as well. Here are a couple of pictures of the vein (in limestone), and a chunk of the ore. 
I’m an old gold dredger who’s late getting into the hardrock game. I’m sure I’ll need help from many of you guys along the way.


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## cejohnsonsr1 (Oct 15, 2022)

You’d need to be able to process a lot of ore. The equipment is expensive and the cost significant. But if you have enough ore that’s rich enough to be worth the expense and effort, then yes. But by the time you get everything sorted out you won’t be an amateur any more. Check out mbmm on YouTube.


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## goldshark (Oct 16, 2022)

Correct, amateur means" not for money," professional means "does it for money". Since the thread is " Can an amateur extract silver from ore economically'?, what is that called, an oxymoron?


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## cejohnsonsr1 (Oct 16, 2022)

Actually, professional means thoroughly and formally trained and possessing a high degree of knowledge and skill. An amateur can do a lot of things for money. But success is usually to a much lesser degree. Amateurs who try to do anything for money also usually fail at much higher rates.


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## goldshark (Oct 18, 2022)

That can be debatable, I have seen very incompetent professionals, and very adept, non formally trained persons. I have met a lot of certified, dyed in the wool, college educated professionals, where most people think their degree should represent that the last of the gray matter has been removed from inside their skull. Passion for a subject should drive a person seeking knowledge, not parents wanting their undecided in life adolescent, to have a higher education than the other 99% of the world, and deep pockets to get them there.
I do agree with you on the amateur making more mistakes and their failure rates. However there is a saying that the best and longest lasting lessons, are the hardest lessons learned. And people who do the same thing over and over, expecting different results, truly are crazy. Just my opinion though.
I have known of a few amateurs who have become wealthy through mining, and a lot of "gone broke" professionals. Sometimes a little luck and hard work can work miracles.
As far as work ethics go, I encourage everybody to try anything. More exposure to a variety of subjects, leads to finding a person's passion. Find your passion, and you will never work another day in your life. Learn to make it pay, and you will find a truly happy person. Do not sell your soul for the almighty dollar only. A little off course, but thanks for listening.


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## cejohnsonsr1 (Oct 18, 2022)

goldshark said:


> That can be debatable, I have seen very incompetent professionals, and very adept, non formally trained persons. I have met a lot of certified, dyed in the wool, college educated professionals, where most people think their degree should represent that the last of the gray matter has been removed from inside their skull. Passion for a subject should drive a person seeking knowledge, not parents wanting their undecided in life adolescent, to have a higher education than the other 99% of the world, and deep pockets to get them there.
> I do agree with you on the amateur making more mistakes and their failure rates. However there is a saying that the best and longest lasting lessons, are the hardest lessons learned. And people who do the same thing over and over, expecting different results, truly are crazy. Just my opinion though.
> I have known of a few amateurs who have become wealthy through mining, and a lot of "gone broke" professionals. Sometimes a little luck and hard work can work miracles.
> As far as work ethics go, I encourage everybody to try anything. More exposure to a variety of subjects, leads to finding a person's passion. Find your passion, and you will never work another day in your life. Learn to make it pay, and you will find a truly happy person. Do not sell your soul for the almighty dollar only. A little off course, but thanks for listening.


You can’t be professional and incompetent at the same time. And I did mention a high level of skill and expertise to go along with the knowledge. I will concede that attending college is not necessarily a measure of education. But I also didn’t say college. I said formally and thoroughly trained. That could come via an apprenticeship or even at a Grandfather’s knee.


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## orvi (Oct 19, 2022)

Nowdays, it is fairly easy to find everything online, so people do. But motivated, self-educated individuals usually see only the things they want, excluding anything problematic from their view. You can now easily find videos and DIY setups of extraction equipment, DIY jaw crushers, impact mills .. (altough i does not seen flotation unit to the date on YT  ). Higher education is not always needed, and I will say there are far less situations when it is needed, than opposite.
It all comes down to man´s ability to judge the situation, do thorough maths, realize culprits in the process and solve them, plan everything from boring the holes in the mine to disposing finely crushed tailings, get fire assays done from multiple homogenized samples and continue with this through the operation to see ore consistency and grade... Degree or without degree, doable. I would say that with degree it would be easier to come close to the green numbers. Best combination is when one study because he want to know all details and is passionate about the field.


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## goldshark (Oct 19, 2022)

Very true. To answer the original thread question, I would have to answer no. Refining Silver scrap is even a rough go for an amateur with no training. Although that person could learn to, with some education learned here, or else where, and a few outlays of cash for frugally researched pieces of equipment.


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## goldshark (Oct 19, 2022)

Thanks for all the likes people. I thought the post originally asked if "armatures" could refine Silver economically. 

Time for more acid.


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## Martijn (Oct 20, 2022)

cejohnsonsr1 said:


> You can’t be professional and incompetent at the same time.


Exept for banking, pharmacy and politics...

@goldshark: Did you get a satisfying answer to the original question?


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## goldshark (Oct 21, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Exept for banking, pharmacy and politics...
> 
> @goldshark: Did you get a satisfying answer to the original question?


I did not post the original thread, merely commented. It is always interesting to hear other people's opinions of their interpretation of what something represents to them, them add an opinion, if necessary, to clarify if they are vague.


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