# Processing gold plated glass and china



## Dog Biscuit (Aug 6, 2007)

Having a large amount of gold plated glass and china, I tried everyway I could think of the remove the gold. I found no reasonable way to remove the gold by scraping, sanding, grinding, or sandblasting.

Today I dropped a box of the stuff and broke most of it. I decided to test a piece in AR. It worked beautifully! 

I used a shallow glass dish with about a 50mL of AR (3 parts HCl/1 part Nitric). I placed the gold plated piece in the AR and watched. There were no visible fumes and the gold just dissapeared. I processed about 1/2 pound of broken pieces in about 10 minutes. As each piece came out of the acid, I rinced it with a squirt bottle into a measuring cup. The rinse water was added to the AR after killing the nitric with urea. The gold dropped very nicely with sodium sulfite.


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## lazersteve (Aug 6, 2007)

Mike,

What was the gold yield?

Steve


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## Dog Biscuit (Aug 7, 2007)

Steve,
I don't know yet. The gold is still settling. I don't think there is enough to weigh in the sample I did. The pieces were broken saucers and cups with just the rims plated.

Now that I know it works, I will run a batch of the "good stuff" to see what comes off.

I was really pleased with the way the AR worked. No base metals = no nasty fumes! It was just like running the e-cell, only a lot cleaner and easier.

Mike


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## AuMINIMayhem (Aug 8, 2007)

Dog Bisquit.. fantastic post! There's a TON of antique and consignmet shops up here with GP plates, statuettes, knick-knacks, etc.. I have been long wondering if it would be worth trying AR with these items.. I'm so glad you took the risk and proved this out. Keep us updated..

Also.. hello gents.. been a while I know. Going through a bit of a time at home with a breakup and trying to get our house together to sell.. and .. errrr.. this IS her computer so looks like I'm gonna need to get a pc soon so I can keep in touch..

Steve, I'm gonna send ya a pm.. got a question.. 

Again, thanks for the heads up Dog Bisquit.. great job!


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 8, 2007)

The stuff's very thin.


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## Dog Biscuit (Aug 8, 2007)

...and there's a lot of it, and it's CHEAP.


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## aflacglobal (Aug 8, 2007)

Mayhem :!: :!: :!: 

Welcome back. :wink:


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## AuMINIMayhem (Aug 8, 2007)

Aflac, GSP.. yep, I'm still kickin
around, just been crazy busy...  

Still thinkin' bout setting up a panning expedition or something at some point, maybe next year.. once I get situated at home you'll see me on here more and I'll be ready to put together some sort of vacation for anyone interested..

in the meantime, keep it up guys!..

Derek


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## macfixer01 (Sep 20, 2007)

Dog Biscuit said:


> Having a large amount of gold plated glass and china, I tried everyway I could think of the remove the gold. I found no reasonable way to remove the gold by scraping, sanding, grinding, or sandblasting.
> 
> Today I dropped a box of the stuff and broke most of it. I decided to test a piece in AR. It worked beautifully!
> 
> I used a shallow glass dish with about a 50mL of AR (3 parts HCl/1 part Nitric). I placed the gold plated piece in the AR and watched. There were no visible fumes and the gold just dissapeared. I processed about 1/2 pound of broken pieces in about 10 minutes. As each piece came out of the acid, I rinced it with a squirt bottle into a measuring cup. The rinse water was added to the AR after killing the nitric with urea. The gold dropped very nicely with sodium sulfite.





I happened to stop by a neighborhood yard sale while I was on my way home today. I found both a small 6 inch vase marked 22K and a set of unmarked salt&pepper shakers I suspect are gold covered also, on the 25-Cent table. I have some previous flea market 22K and 24K china buys from awhile ago I would like to process also. I usually go for items with a lot of coverage though, instead of cups and plates with just a gold edge. Anyway I was assuming the HCL/Chlorox method ought to work instead of AR? I was also going to try just resting them in the solution and turning as necessary to catch all sides, instead of breaking them up and needing to do extra filtering. One of these days...

macfixer01


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## ChucknC (Sep 20, 2007)

The HCl-Clorox method will work, but have the items checked to be sure your not destroying a valuble piece just to get the gold. I know of a few dealers who will pay a premium to have make piecess make complete sets. My parents wedding china is a prime example. The set is valued as more as a make set than a complete set. Check the makers mark and the style.

If the pieces were already broken, oh well, have at it.

Chuck


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## macfixer01 (Sep 21, 2007)

ChucknC said:


> The HCl-Clorox method will work, but have the items checked to be sure your not destroying a valuble piece just to get the gold. I know of a few dealers who will pay a premium to have make piecess make complete sets. My parents wedding china is a prime example. The set is valued as more as a make set than a complete set. Check the makers mark and the style.
> 
> If the pieces were already broken, oh well, have at it.
> 
> Chuck





Hi Chuck,
You made a very good point. With any scrap, first see if it's more valuable to someone as a collectible? I used the term china loosely though, as in made of china, porcelain, or ceramic. The items I have are just gold coated ash trays, ornamental pitchers, and figurines basically.

Thanks,
macfixer01


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## WeirdoC (Nov 20, 2007)

I can attest that the HCl-Clorox method does work, and very well. I tried it out on some plates I picked up at the Salvation Army store. I used a wide bucket with a shallow layer of HCl-Clorox in the bottom--just enough to completely submerge the banding around the plate's rim. I held the plates vertically with the edge in the solution and rotated them until all the gold was dissolved. It really does a good job. The gold is dissolved pretty much instantly.

The chlorine fumes are pretty wicked, though. Because you have to dip the pieces by hand, your face is pretty close to the reaction vessel. I was outside when I did this, and once in a while the wind would shift and I was getting a nose-full of fumes. It's poisonous and it burns your nostrils, a LOT. I definitely wouldn't want to do this again without better safety equipment.

I thought about immersing whole pieces, but that would take a lot of solution and wouldn't work on most ceramic plates. The unfinished portions of the bottom are porous and would likely absorb the solution, trapping the auric chloride without much hope for recovery. Broken pieces of ceramic plates would be even worse as even the edge-dipping method would expose the porous raw edges.


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## g_axelsson (Nov 20, 2007)

If you are worried about the solution being absorbed in the porous china then there is a simple way to avoid it.
Just let the pieces soak in water for a while, saturating the bulk material. Then we have reduced the problem from absorption to one of diffusion and that is a much slower process. And if you get any auric chloride diffusing into the pieces then you can get most of it out by soaking it in clean water again for a while. That water could be put back into the process by using it in the step for cleaning off the AR after etching the gold.

Diffusion is a slow process. In marine archeology iron is conserved by letting chloride ions diffuse out of metal objects. A large piece like a cannon could take years to process.

I would like to hear what yield you got of the china scrap.

/Göran


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## aflacglobal (Nov 21, 2007)

> Just let the pieces soak in water for a while, saturating the bulk material. Then we have reduced the problem from absorption to one of diffusion and that is a much slower process. And if you get any auric chloride diffusing into the pieces then you can get most of it out by soaking it in clean water again for a while. That water could be put back into the process by using it in the step for cleaning off the AR after etching the gold.




I like the way he figured that out. 

What do you do for a living ?
Welcome to the forum, again.


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## g_axelsson (Nov 22, 2007)

Thanks aflacglobal!

Well, I have studied physics but this trick I learned while cutting meteorites to prevent water to infiltrate them during cutting and polishing. I let them soak in water free alcohol before cutting and processing, it is for protecting the metallic iron in the meteorites from too much exposure to water.

Right now I'm between work, I have my salary the year out but I haven't worked for a couple of months, giving me plenty of time to do something about all my precious metal scrap I have accumulated over the years.

I have some ideas about using electrochemistry for processing scrap metal and a lot of what I have read on the forum is giving me new ideas.

/Göran


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## aflacglobal (Nov 22, 2007)

Hey, I like your thinking more and more.
I like to take what i have learned in other fields and apply it to something new.

We are always open to new ideas and topics here. You should see some off the things i come up with. lol

I have a new process i have been working on for a scientific program I'm trying to win right now. I sit here and wish i could post it just so everybody could see just how outside the box it is, but yet the beauty of it is so simple. The deadline is in less than sixty days so after that i can get some input from the forum. :wink: 

Let us know what you find out please.


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## Noxx (Nov 22, 2007)

I wish you the best luck Alfac !


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## aflacglobal (Nov 22, 2007)

Thanks Noxx.

I have been deep into it for about 2 months now. I'm excited. Really excited.  Not to blow my own horn, but i just feel that their is no way i can lose this one. And the answer is so simple. Well not really, but once you see the whole picture it becomes such. I just though of the direction that everyone else would be headed and went the opposite direction. Doesn't matter what path you take to reach point B as long as you reach it and do it first.

Remember outcomes are inevitable. You can't stop an outcome, But you can have an influence on it's product or direction.

We shall see. :wink:


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## rainmaker (Apr 11, 2008)

You are so right, the AR strips the gold off cleanly and quickly. Great tip.

I just mixed up my first ever batch of AR and I immediately had a layer of white powder settle to the bottom of the pot (I'm using a discarded clear coffee pot from a drip coffee maker). Did I do something wrong? Should this be somewhere else on the forum? What do you all think the white stuff is? 

The solution still works as I thought it would and the gold is stripped quickly.

Thanks again.

Rainmaker :?


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## KCGreg (Apr 12, 2008)

Can you elaborate on what exactly happened please? Did you mix up your aqua regia in the coffee pot and then noticed the white fluff prior to addition of whatever items you were processing? Or, did you mix up your AR then add in your items for processing and then you noticed the white fluff? If it was china or gold rimmed glass, I'm assuming it was, is it fine particulate from having to break it into pieces small enough to fit in the coffee pot? It could also be undissolved sodium nitrate??


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## rainmaker (Apr 12, 2008)

I mixed 8 oz. Sodium Nitrate with 16 oz of HOT water(marketed as "Spring Water" from a national supermarket chain), filtered that mixture into the coffee pot glass container (carafe) and added 1 Qt HCL (Muratic Acid). This is the point I noticed that there was about 1/4" of white powder on the bottom of the glass container. I had not yet attempted to process any PMG bearing materials.


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## Palladium (Apr 12, 2008)

Did you forget to chill it after you mixed the Sodium Nitrate and water to remove as much salts as possible. :?:
Any H2SO4 ?

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=2572#2572


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## rainmaker (Apr 12, 2008)

My Solution was never at boiling temperature, except the pure water prior to adding anything. Probably around 180/160 F when Sodium Nitrate was added and dissolved.


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## KCGreg (Apr 12, 2008)

That is alot of aqua regia! And the recipe you quoted sounds eerily familiar. I think that the white fluff on the bottom was basically sodium nitrate that didn't completely dissolve as well as the salts from same. I have never dissolved the Sn in hot water before. I always just added in the SN, the water (room temp. tap is what I use), and then the acid. I believe you add acid to water and never water to acid? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! 

I literally had like 100lbs of this stuff that my urban miners and dumpsters divers had brought to me. I put it in a burlap sack and let the kids go at it with a hammer. Ever seen Steve's acid peroxide video? Use those same buckets for processing and simply dump the broken shards into the inside bucket and let it soak. Once the gold was stripped, I just had another rinse bucket with clean tap to rinse the china off with and then the pieces went right into the trash. Started all over on the next bucketfull.

I have no idea of the return. From reading on the forum, I didn't expect much of one so I evaporated it down and put it in the stock pot.


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