# atsion gun



## loco (Mar 14, 2008)

anyone ever heard of a gun like device that is suppose to cost around $45,000 US and can be placed to material and give some kind of reading to show content or value or something. I was told it was called something like an atsion or something like that? I heard about someone that I guess had one of these and held it up to some cat material and it gave some reading. anyone know anything about this type of equipment? or is it total BS?


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## jimdoc (Mar 14, 2008)

I have seen Niton XRF handheld analyzers.
You can google that and find info, I just
changed computers or I would have been
able to give you links. Jim


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## Lou (Mar 14, 2008)

That's exactly what they are. All they are is hand held X-ray fluorescence units. They're useful for quick qualitative testing and semi-quantitative analysis (usually good to a couple percent).

Expensive though, aren't they? Should be easy enough to build if you had the proper algorithm and a good knowledge of electronics.



Lou


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## macfixer01 (Mar 15, 2008)

Lou said:


> That's exactly what they are. All they are is hand held X-ray fluorescence units. They're useful for quick qualitative testing and semi-quantitative analysis (usually good to a couple percent).
> 
> Expensive though, aren't they? Should be easy enough to build if you had the proper algorithm and a good knowledge of electronics.
> 
> ...





This sounds like the type of unit I saw on the This Old House tv show once, that they used to non-chemically detect lead in the old paint.

macfixer01


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## Lou (Mar 15, 2008)

Yep, they're very nice for nondestructive testing. They ''peer'' into the material's surface.

There are many variations on x-ray techniques, from diffraction, (back)scattering, fluorescence, and on...DNA was discovered with crystallography.

The underlying principle is simple, it's just the mathematics of what's happening coupled with the signal processing that isn't!


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## peter i (Mar 15, 2008)

I agree with Lou.

The principle is simple, and can be compared with shining a torch on an object, and seeing what colour the light has after hitting it.
When bombarding the elements with radiation, some electrons will be kicked out of their orbital. The interesting part comes when another electron drops from a higher energy orbital into the vacancy. Then there is an energy difference, and this energy is emitted as radiation with a characteristic energy (=the energy difference between the two orbitals).
In short: The elements will fluoresce with each their characteristic wavelength(s). 

“All you have to do” is then to measure the relative intensity and the wavelength of the radiation and compare with the table (and do some corrections, but that’s in the über-nerd part of it).

So you need an X-ray generator (or gamma-ray source), an energy dispersive way of detecting the fluorescence, some hard- and software end sufficient shielding to avoid frying your gonads.
It’s a quite powerful analytical technique, but the gear is expensive.

The wiki on it is quite good, but not exactly “Readers Digest”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_fluorescence

(I work with X-ray diffraction on a daily basis. A very nice tool for rapid identification and characterization of inorganic samples)

The mathematics of solving structures from single crystal diffraction data still scares me!


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## Lou (Mar 15, 2008)

Peter, 

Yes, the maths gets intense quite rapidly, particularly on the signal process end!! 

I do XRD work too, mainly use it for determination of catalyst composition or metal oxide characterization. 

I was just reading a paper about analyzing catalytic converter honeycomb material using XRD that's supposed to be qualitative and quantitative! I'll go look up the paper if you're interested Peter.


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## peter i (Mar 16, 2008)

If you have a reference for it, please post it. It could be interesting to read.


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## Rhodium (Mar 16, 2008)

This may help others understand xrf :arrow:


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## Anonymous (Jun 7, 2008)

we have one of the analyzers at the scrap yard...they (the one we have) are very good at telling the buyer (me) what is on the surface....that is why you will see the user grind the material to get a good reading as to sub surface content...a note to everyone who deals with shaddy scrap yards watch that the guy doing the testing puts only your scrap under the "eye" (testing window) some of the less honest places will put a strip of lead or something else into the eye so they can downgrade your scrap when they buy it.....make them test it in 2 or 3 spots and when the tester is picked up look at the testing area...it should be like a yellow piece of cellaphane.... (saran wrap).....just watch the scrap guys...LOL take it from one of the "scrap guys"


hope this helps
cory


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 7, 2008)

Most gold refiners were ex scrap metal dealers. Need I say more?


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## Lionhead (Apr 26, 2010)

My company is able to supply Niton XL3t 800 handheld analyzers on a monthly basis, approximately 7 per month. The analyzer is able to detect 12 elements: lron (Fe), cobalt (Co), nickel (Ni). copper (Cu), zinc
(Zn), ruthenium (Ru), rhodium (Rh). palladium (Pd), silver (Ag),
iridium (lr), platinum (Pt) and gold (Au).
Our price for the Niton XL3t 800 analyzer is $8,750 CAD (not including shipping), it also comes with a 12 month warranty. If anyone is interested, please pm for any further information.


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## Noxx (Apr 26, 2010)

goldsilverpro said:


> Most gold refiners were ex scrap metal dealers. Need I say more?



It speaks for itself, isn't it?


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## Noxx (Apr 26, 2010)

Does that include calibration ?


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## Lionhead (Apr 26, 2010)

Analysis Range - precious Alloy mode is calibrated with both pure precious metal and alloy standards.


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