# keyboard mylar refining without nitric



## lotrogold (Sep 21, 2011)

hi all, i have some keyboard mylar, and i have found info about refining using nitric acid. Is possible to refine them using hcl + clorox ah used for refine gold?? And if yes, can someone tell me step by step how to refine them?? 
Thanks


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## Acid_Bath76 (Sep 21, 2011)

There is a post of someone actually just bypassing the whole HCL or Nitric all together. Simply melting the mylars down. Curious if putting them all in a deep crucible and melting it all down would work. I've got a nice clean stack in a box, but I would like to wait until I have enough to make it worth it.


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## Claudie (Sep 21, 2011)

I think Steve is the member who heated one in a melting dish. I don't recall what the yield was but doing one at a time like he did would be a nightmare. :|


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## samuel-a (Sep 22, 2011)

Acid_Bath76 said:


> There is a post of someone actually just bypassing the whole HCL or Nitric all together. Simply melting the mylars down. Curious if putting them all in a deep crucible and melting it all down would work. I've got a nice clean stack in a box, but I would like to wait until I have enough to make it worth it.



You can Pyrolyze it and make your own Diesel fuel in the process of silver recovry :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Seriously, i can't understand how in the world it will worth your while melting them down and burning all that plastic.

You could rig up some sort of dipping mechanism followed by rinsing... with nitric it's easy as you can use Al and SS as part of the rig.


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## lotrogold (Sep 22, 2011)

that's mean that it's not possible to dissolve silver in hcl+clorox or hcl+proxide ans then precipitate silver?


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## dtectr (Sep 22, 2011)

lotrogold said:


> that's mean that it's not possible to dissolve silver in hcl+clorox or hcl+proxide ans then precipitate silver?


Nope. Have you read Hoke yet?
Silver is much more complicated to recover/refine than gold is. The process is exacting & requires special equipment & processes. 

The reasons for solubility go far beyond *"if it dissolves this it must dissolve that, too."* Its chemistry/physics/metallurgy, and until you gain the most basic understanding of the processes involved, my personal recommendation is to store everything nice and neat, and begin reading Hoke. 

Or do some basic searching. Everyone here who has been successful at learning different aspects of this field have done so by hours of research & study, so simply asking a question that clearly hasn't been researched & then asking for a step-by-step walkthrough, will likely not receive the most eager responses.

I haven't whipped this out for a while, so here goes:


Oh, & read Hoke.
EDIT: grammar


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## lotrogold (Sep 22, 2011)

dtectr said:


> lotrogold said:
> 
> 
> > that's mean that it's not possible to dissolve silver in hcl+clorox or hcl+proxide ans then precipitate silver?
> ...



wow!
i can understand your point of view m8, but i dont like chemistry and really dont want to learn about it. I just want help to understand "how to refine" the "Why it works" its not in my interest.
Right or wrong that's my opinion. Thanks for reply.


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## jimdoc (Sep 22, 2011)

lotrogold said:


> wow!
> i can understand your point of view m8, but i dont like chemistry and really dont want to learn about it. I just want help to understand "how to refine" the "Why it works" its not in my interest.
> Right or wrong that's my opinion. Thanks for reply.



If you are not going to learn why it works, you will have problems with making it work, and run into problems that you will not know how to solve. You will be wasting time and precious metals. Maybe you should just be a middle man if you can't be bothered with learning how it works.
Refining isn't for everybody.

Jim


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## Claudie (Sep 22, 2011)

If you wanted to eat a good meal yet knew nothing about how to prepare it, would you learn how to cook or just try and hope for a good meal? :| 
The biggest difference in this situation would be that the flour won't explode, the milk vapors won't kill you and the batter won't eat your fingers off. You need to learn how things work, to do it right and still be healthy when you are finished.


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## goldenchild (Sep 22, 2011)

lotrogold said:


> wow!
> i can understand your point of view m8, but i dont like chemistry and really dont want to learn about it. I just want help to understand "how to refine" the "Why it works" its not in my interest.
> Right or wrong that's my opinion. Thanks for reply.



Being blunt here but... it's clear you simply don't want to put in any work. In your first post you wrote

"hi all, i have some keyboard mylar, and i have found info about refining using nitric acid. Is possible to refine them using hcl + clorox ah used for refine gold?? And if yes, can someone tell me step by step how to refine them?? 
Thanks"

Two of those three senctences involve chemistry. How do you suppose you will recover the silver without chemistry? This isn't mixing kool-aid. Then you want someone to use their precious time to give you step by step instructions(highly despised on this forum) all while not caring to know how it works. I think Jim's advice to just be the middleman is sound. Or maybe just pay someone to do it if you really want the silver in your hands.


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## lotrogold (Sep 22, 2011)

ye, you are all right, but tu learn something the first requirement is "passion" i sincerely havent about chemistry, i just want to try.


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## acpeacemaker (Sep 22, 2011)

Today I'm an artist, tomorrow I think ill try heart surgery.


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## Geo (Sep 22, 2011)

i know almost nothing of chemistry. but what i do know has been trial and error, posting what you did and what the outcome was. whether you are right or wrong someone will either tell you that you have done wrong or you have done right, but to do nothing first and ask how to do it like its your right to do so and someone must comply will get you no where here fast. try first, then ask why it didnt work because if it does work theres no need to ask.


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## jimdoc (Sep 22, 2011)

I disagree. Trying first and asking questions can be deadly with acid fumes.
If you don't have a basic understanding, or will to do some homework into
what you plan to do. Then don't do it.
There is no easy money in refining. You can make it easier by flipping your
finds.

Jim


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## eeTHr (Sep 22, 2011)

:roll:


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## dtectr (Sep 22, 2011)

acpeacemaker said:


> Today I'm an artist, tomorrow I think ill try heart surgery.


"Yesterday I couldn't spell "Professor" & today I are one!"


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## Geo (Sep 22, 2011)

definitely, never handle chemicals without a basic understanding of the safety issues. forgive me for my assumption that this would be a universally accepted notion. i forget that people are more apt to put their finger in a light socket to see if the power is on than take the time to check if the switch is off. :roll:


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## acpeacemaker (Sep 22, 2011)

Ok, let's say you got a hold of a bunch of scrap and a bottle of nitric. You read somewhere that you at some point need to boil your nitric. Where would you boil it at? Believe it or not there has been people that did it right in their kitchen with family in the next room. Simply cause they got "gold fever" and wanted to try it.


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## Acid_Bath76 (Sep 22, 2011)

It's not a laughing matter, but I couldnt help myself. There was someone who posted a rather unfortunate event somewhere on this forum.. He was heating HCL in his backyard. Dangerous stuff, worthy of precautionary measures, but not I'm the same league as nitric or hot sulfuric. Just my opinion. Anyhow, he was heating this stuff up, but didn't take into account the fog that was rolling in that morning. Yeah... You might see where this is going. Poor guy probably choked out anybody walking their pooch that morning. Know your chemicals, read, plan for worst case scenario, read some more. There is so much more to this than simply grabbing "A", mixing with "B", and getting "C". Is there a Darwin Award section on this forum? Sadly, it's only a matter of time. Some of the stuff I read, makes me wonder.


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## goldsilverpro (Sep 22, 2011)

An embarrassingly true story.

Once, many years ago, I was very young, stupid, broke, and stranded, and a guy in Little Rock, AR, paid me $500 to show him how to refine karat gold. We set up on his driveway, using a Pyrex coffee pot (no lid) and a hot plate, put in some jewelry and about 400-500 mls of AR, and started it cranking. We started about 4PM and ran it very hot for several hours. We added acid when needed. When it got dark, we noticed that a fog had rolled in and you could hardly see the streetlights in the exclusive neighborhood. I finally realized that I was possibly creating the fog and shut it down. Strangely enough, the fog shortly disappeared. It's amazing how much fog you can create, with a little hot HCl, under the right weather conditions (inverse temperature gradient and high humidity, I would say). I'd bet it spread for a radius of 2 or 3 blocks. Away from the driveway, it didn't smell and I can't imagine it endangering anyone (the dilution would have been enormous), but I was sure glad the cops didn't drive by. We finished it the next day and I did get the $500.


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## lotrogold (Sep 23, 2011)

there's something wrong ppls, im not here to say that i want to put 5 liter of acid on hot plate in a room 1x1 meter without windows, i'm not so stupid, i know that using acids an other stuff can be really dangerous, i just say that for me doesn't matter to know every chemistry rule, i just want to try to make it, i'm not up for a gold run, i dont want to become rich refining gold, i just have some scraps, and try to refine it, nothing else.


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## eeTHr (Sep 23, 2011)

lotro---

If someone did tell you everything you need to know, it would be big enough to fill a book.

But then you wouldn't want to read it, anyway! So why bother?


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## acpeacemaker (Sep 23, 2011)

Can you give a good description of the e-scrap you do have. Maybe, some pictures? This might give someone an idea of what process you would need, and a better way to help you understand what everyone is meaning.


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## notch (Sep 23, 2011)

acpeacemaker said:


> Today I'm an artist, tomorrow I think ill try heart surgery.



Anyone can buy Paint.


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## acpeacemaker (Sep 23, 2011)

Actually to be honest about it I really am an artist. This painting below is several years old but was my first portrait. It was supposed to be like a modern day Tinkerbelle. Anyways, yes anybody can buy paint, but not everyone can paint.


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## goldenchild (Sep 23, 2011)

acpeacemaker said:


> Can you give a good description of the e-scrap you do have. Maybe, some pictures? This might give someone an idea of what process you would need, and a better way to help you understand what everyone is meaning.



This would be negating what we are unsuccessfully trying to get across to lotrogold. He has no interest in the "why" and only the "how". Giving him incomplete information would lead to two things. Either him attempting to recover the silver, messing up and coming back to ask more questions which are easily found on this forum with a 5 second search or... him injuring himself or worse. I'm gonna go old school and offer this advice to him. Read Hoke.


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## acpeacemaker (Sep 23, 2011)

I actually thought about that after I posted it and would like to retract it. It was more out of feeling badly for someone. I agree whole heartedly and old school all the way, read Hoke.


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## Palladium (Sep 24, 2011)

That picture is good. Wish i had that talent.


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## Claudie (Sep 24, 2011)

acpeacemaker said:


> Actually to be honest about it I really am an artist. This painting below is several years old but was my first portrait. It was supposed to be like a modern day Tinkerbelle. Anyways, yes anybody can buy paint, but not everyone can paint.



That is a fine piece of work.


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## Platdigger (Sep 24, 2011)

Yes, very talented.


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## acpeacemaker (Sep 24, 2011)

Thank you for the compliments guys, I love to paint. Lately, I've had a lot of people bringing me old baby pics to paint because thier photos were deteriorating. But enjoy wildlife as go to type thing.


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## japeatr (Oct 13, 2021)

Sorry for the thread necro… but would boiling sulfuric acid eat through the sheets on the keyboard trace so I could dissolve silver and refined with Lye and sugar?


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## Martijn (Oct 13, 2021)

Welcome to the forum japeatr. 
I don't know how much you know about refining but that is not a recommended process for most people. 

I wasn't sure... so i Googled for: "silver in hot concentrated H2SO4"

First result: 

"Chemical properties:
Silver does not react with dilute hydrochloric acid and dilute sulphuric acid but it reacts with hot concentrated sulphuric acid and this reaction gives sulphur dioxide water and silver sulphate."

I learn so much from answering questions here. :wink: 
So the plastic will dissolve (into carbon?), but the silver will dissolve into silver sulfate. 

But seriously, wet ashing is ridiculously dangerous!!!!

Don't try it! Only to be done by the most experienced chemists with a safe workspace! Boiling sulfuric eats trough you in a split second. It boils at 337 degrees C by the way. 

That bit of silver is not worth the risks of hot H2SO2. 

STAY ALIVE. Study long and hard and stick to known processes. 

Martijn.

Edited for correct H2SO4 spelling in stead of H2O2.


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