# Cell phone extraction



## Johnny Williams (Jan 23, 2012)

I extracted about 35-40 cell phones. First I used nitric acid to extract 450gr of cell phones to recover silver. After filtering , the boards was covered with AR and allowed to stand for several days the result was dark tan solution, then filtered. I tested each sloution, the first solution did not show any gold was present and second sol ( dark tan sol ) didnt show any gold either . Yes the stannous was fresh, in fact ,tests on AA or ICP gold sol was positve when tested. Looked in forum to see if I could find answer, lots of reading no answer yet. Help newbe


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## martyn111 (Jan 23, 2012)

What pre processing steps did you take before starting your extraction ?
Were all the base metals dissolved in the first nitric bath?
Have you tested this first solution for silver in solution?
Without knowing the full story we will only be guessing as to what has happened to your PM's

My guess is that the tan colour in your second solution could be Iron oxide, if that is the case you will probably find your gold in the bottom of your vessel in the form of fine black powder, cemented out on any base metals present.


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## Johnny Williams (Jan 23, 2012)

No ,pre processing ,treated with acid (HNO3 conc) followe by filtering,treat again this time with AR. Test , no gold . Not sure if all base metals removed in first extraction . Test for silver , please suggest . I was trying to keep simple, story is being writen as we go. No black powder noted. Have saved every thying.


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## martyn111 (Jan 23, 2012)

test for silver, add small amount of Hcl or table salt, if a white precipitate appears in the solution it is probably silver chloride.
Have you read Hoke's?


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## butcher (Jan 24, 2012)

Aqua regia will not dissolve very much silver, silver chloride is insoluble in this acid, a tiny bit of silver will go into solution in the very strong acid.

Did you eliminate the nitric acid before testing with stannous chloride? If you did not it may not work, (gold re-dissolves) do you know for sure your stannous is good? (a Known gold solution can be used to test your stannous chloride).

What color is you solution? Is it loaded with base metals? Is it clear yellow , or green or black? How does it filter? These conditions can be clues to if your gold is dissolved or in colloidal form, due to tin or high base metal content in solution,
Stannous will not test for colloidal gold, although there is usually enough dissolved gold even in these conditions to test positive, as stannous chloride is a very sensitive test and can test for very minute amounts of gold in solution.


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## Johnny Williams (Jan 24, 2012)

Silver test ,in which HCL was added to a sample (of first sol) tested positive, thank you ! Silver droped almost right away. Solution #2 AR extraction, a small sample was heated to drive off the HNO3( took down in vol up with small amount of h2o).Sol tested for gold , bingo test showed gold present. The color of second sol ,
(someone who's not color blind) dark green. Still trying to find copy of Hoke.
Does color mean AR sol loaded with base metals and is there way to get them out?


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## martyn111 (Jan 24, 2012)

Hokes book 
http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs


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## arthur kierski (Jan 24, 2012)

35 to 40 cell fone with a good strategy yealds 1 gram of gold +or- 0,4grams------0,3to 0,4 of pd and 10grams of ag(i never got more then 4grams)-----the way you described what you did,i doubt that you will get 10% of what i mentioned
i studied and exchanged experience with many members of this forum,read many books(hoke,ammen,kadja-----inorganic qualitative analysis)and yet i am not fully sure of the processes i use----i am doingn these extractions for more then 4years---- i will not disclose what i do---- i only am writing this thread to tell you ,without arrogance,and wishing sucess ,that you are in the wrong track,and should change your strategy----- i do around 300kilos of cellphone boards monthly----about 11000 cellphones-------
regards 
Arthur


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## Johnny Williams (Jan 26, 2012)

Martyl111 ,thanks for the link to Hokes book.
Bucher, the color is a dark green, does this indicate base metals present. 
Arhur , not sure what you are saying . I 'm basicly on a exploratory to find what can be obtained from computer parts and cell phones and how to extract it properly. 
I dont need useless post that increase the the writers post number and realy say little. I am a newbe not stupid. 
Back to the problem, cell phone extraction, sol #1 HNO3 is where my Ag is ok. Sol #2 problem , I used AR , color dark green. Have I lost my gold?


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## jimdoc (Jan 26, 2012)

Johnny Williams said:


> Arhur , not sure what you are saying . I 'm basicly on a exploratory to find what can be obtained from computer parts and cell phones and how to extract it properly.
> I dont need useless post that increase the the writers post number and realy say little. I am a newbe not stupid.



I think you should not dismiss Arthur's advice as useless. You should be learning from every possible angle. Members with an entitlement issue or attitude problem often miss out on advice that they would otherwise receive.

Jim


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## Geo (Jan 26, 2012)

Johnny Williams said:


> . Back to the problem, cell phone extraction, sol #1 HNO3 is where my Ag is ok. Sol #2 problem , I used AR , color dark green. Have I lost my gold?



if there is the least bit of base metal left after the reaction, then your gold plated back out of the solution. if you still have the trash left over after the reaction, decant the solution down to the solids and add a couple hundred mls of hcl and then add a few mls of bleach and then test with stannous.


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## arthur kierski (Jan 26, 2012)

Johnny,you are stupid----anyway,good luck
Arthur


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## Photobacterium (Jan 26, 2012)

arthur kierski said:


> 35 to 40 cell fone with a good strategy yealds 1 gram of gold +or- 0,4grams------0,3to 0,4 of pd and 10grams of ag(i never got more then 4grams)-----the way you described what you did,i doubt that you will get 10% of what i mentioned
> i studied and exchanged experience with many members of this forum,read many books(hoke,ammen,kadja-----inorganic qualitative analysis)and yet i am not fully sure of the processes i use----i am doingn these extractions for more then 4years---- i will not disclose what i do---- i only am writing this thread to tell you ,without arrogance,and wishing sucess ,that you are in the wrong track,and should change your strategy----- i do around 300kilos of cellphone boards monthly----about 11000 cellphones-------
> regards
> Arthur



thank you for sharing your yield results !


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## arthur kierski (Jan 26, 2012)

Photobacterium,the yealds that i wrote in the thread are derived from my experiments--they are true numbers that may vary with the types of cellfones----there might be a big variation in the silver,because only recently i discovered that exists silver in the screens,together with indium------
regards 
Arthur


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## butcher (Jan 27, 2012)

Johnny Williams,
arthur kierski, has worked hard to gain his knowledge in this field, and if he say's something I personally believe it has much merit, and you should have also listen, he was trying to help you, from what he has learned by much trial and error and hard work, you insulted Aurtur with your comment that you did not need useless information, it also insulted me, as I see where nobody who answered your question gave you nothing but good advice, yes you are new, and nobody thinks you are stupid, but that was a stupid thing to say, to people who spend their time trying to help others, when someone try's to show you the way to get your gold do not spit in their face, say thankyou.

Arthur was trying to help show you the way to find your gold (you are new and lost).

I feel you owe an apology to our good friend Arthur, put up chemistry and read Hokes.

just thought I would give you my two cents.


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## jeneje (Jan 27, 2012)

Not much to say here, :idea: but recovery, classifie,then refinement!!

Ken


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## Claudie (Feb 4, 2012)

arthur kierski said:


> 35 to 40 cell fone with a good strategy yealds 1 gram of gold +or- 0,4grams------0,3to 0,4 of pd and 10grams of ag(i never got more then 4grams)-----the way you described what you did,i doubt that you will get 10% of what i mentioned
> i studied and exchanged experience with many members of this forum,read many books(hoke,ammen,kadja-----inorganic qualitative analysis)and yet i am not fully sure of the processes i use----i am doingn these extractions for more then 4years---- i will not disclose what i do---- i only am writing this thread to tell you ,without arrogance,and wishing sucess ,that you are in the wrong track,and should change your strategy----- i do around 300kilos of cellphone boards monthly----about 11000 cellphones-------
> regards
> Arthur



Using these numbers, 1 average cell phone would contain .025 grams of Gold.


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## arthur kierski (Feb 5, 2012)

Claudie, that is correct---0,025grams or more, sometimes 0,034grams(nokia numbers)-----up to now ,i never obtained less then 0,025grams-----as for pd it should be(nokias numbers)0,015grams per board,but because of sorting(separating ) the components from the board and sieving ,iget an average 0,07grams per cell----0,28grams per kilo
regards, 
Arthur

as the cellphone gets smaller,i obtain up to 48boards per kilo----this give per kilo 1,2grams of gold and0,33grams of pd per kilo--- this are my numbers, and perhaps they are low because people that buy cellfone boards pays a very good price per kilo---this implies that perhaps there is more pms that i can extract----this is just an adendo
regards again
Arthur


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## Claudie (Feb 5, 2012)

Thank you very much for sharing your results.


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## patnor1011 (Feb 5, 2012)

Johnny Williams said:


> Martyl111 ,thanks for the link to Hokes book.
> Bucher, the color is a dark green, does this indicate base metals present.
> Arhur , not sure what you are saying . I 'm basicly on a exploratory to find what can be obtained from computer parts and cell phones and how to extract it properly.
> I dont need useless post that increase the the writers post number and realy say little. I am a newbe not stupid.
> Back to the problem, cell phone extraction, sol #1 HNO3 is where my Ag is ok. Sol #2 problem , I used AR , color dark green. Have I lost my gold?




You joined 5 months ago. If you are still looking for Hoke`s book (which I doubt you do) you just waste money by putting stuff to acid. You are wasting time of other members with mess you are creating if you do not want to put some effort in learning or understanding refining. You may consider to find another hobby.


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## lazersteve (Feb 5, 2012)

Johnny,

I can tell you that Arthur's information is not useless and it is foolish on your part to disregard his post as you did. I feel you owe him an apology as well. He has brought a fresh perspective to this forum that was missing until his arrival.. a hands on, detailed, larger scale perspective full of valuable information. He has asked many intelligent questions and followed the advice given. I feel Arthur is one of the forums 'premiere' members if there is such a thing here. He has openly shared what he has learned along with his yield data with the forum and has given back more than he has taken in my opinion.

People in glass houses should not throw stones. Your comment about him trying to up his post count was uncalled for and down right rude when he was attempting to genuinely help you.

Steve


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## martyn111 (Feb 5, 2012)

I have to agree with Lasersteve and butcher, an apology is due to arthur, until this is in place then I for one will not reply to any questions posted by johnny williams.


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## Claudie (Feb 5, 2012)

martyn111 said:


> I have to agree with Lasersteve and butcher, an apology is due to arthur, until this is in place then I for one will not reply to any questions posted by johnny williams.



I agree.


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## Johnny Williams (Feb 8, 2012)

I didnt know we were playing dungeon and dragons.I'm an industrial analysical chemist by degree. Research is my game. Degree 1982. I hope you dont think this forum is the only game in town, it not . The environmentalist dont want people using things that would screwup the environment. I agree with them. I dont recall mention anyone by name,tho they have called me names , I dont need an apology. Extractions involving chemicals that are very dangerous, to say the lease, high levels of metals in their blood stream? True, this is one of the better forum. Oh to my problem,second sol , droped the volume,extracted with HCL+ bleach. There is very little I can't learn on my own. True ,I may have to invent the wheel,so what. To those of you that tried to help ...Thanks .To those who are using me to increase there post...................................................I'm reminded of something the Mood Blues said " it ral them for you to preceve the winds they move" Oh if I misspelled anything please dont hold it aganist me.


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## jimdoc (Feb 8, 2012)

Johnny Williams said:


> I didnt know we were playing dungeon and dragons.I'm an industrial analysical chemist by degree. Research is my game. Degree 1982. I hope you dont think this forum is the only game in town, it not . The environmentalist dont want people using things that would screwup the environment. I agree with them. I dont recall mention anyone by name,tho they have called me names , I dont need an apology. Extractions involving chemicals that are very dangerous, to say the lease, high levels of metals in their blood stream? True, this is one of the better forum. Oh to my problem,second sol , droped the volume,extracted with HCL+ bleach. There is very little I can't learn on my own. True ,I may have to invent the wheel,so what. To those of you that tried to help ...Thanks .To those who are using me to increase there post...................................................I'm reminded of something the Mood Blues said " it ral them for you to preceve the winds they move" Oh if I misspelled anything please dont hold it aganist me.



Sorry, we didn't know you had a degree. That changes everything.

Jim


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## butcher (Feb 8, 2012)

I need to up my post count, Johnny, so I will say this, you came here as a guest in this house, many here have an friendship with other members, you have been rude here in this house, and are continueing to be rude, how long do you expect those who live here to help you and welcome you with that kind of attitude?, if you think you can figure out everything that these members are willing to help you with as a guest in their home I suggest you look at your manners.

we do not know each other, and we can be friends and help each other or we can just have wasted our time talking your choice.

there one more post for me.

I would much rather be making this post to help you in your quest to learn as a friend and another members all of us getting along in this house.

I can care less about how many post anyone has including me.


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## Claudie (Feb 8, 2012)

Do we get a prize or something for the most posts? :roll:


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## bigjohn (Feb 8, 2012)

If there are so many other great forums, why do these kind of people keep showing up here?
Maybe he's talking about the great instructions on the shor site.
Remember Nobody HAS to help you.
That's one more post for me!


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## Geo (Feb 8, 2012)

johnny, you came HERE looking for help. you could be a little more humble when asking for a free handout. humility never hurt anyone and im just letting you know that your haughty attitude and entitlement attitude is not gaining you any friends. when you dismiss a member out of hand that has already put in his time here you are just asking for other members to come to their defense. please reconsider your decision not to extend an apology when one is so easily given. believe me when i say the only person causing you problems here is you.


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## martyn111 (Feb 8, 2012)

Claudie said:


> Do we get a prize or something for the most posts? :roll:



Not that I know of, but if we do I'm one post closer to claiming that prize :lol: 

You'd have thought that if you the had the brains for a degree you would have used that brain power to learn to spell!
Enough said,I'm finished with this clown.


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## Claudie (Feb 8, 2012)

martyn111 said:


> Claudie said:
> 
> 
> > Do we get a prize or something for the most posts? :roll:
> ...



Now that was funny.


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## bigjohn (Feb 8, 2012)

I really wish we had a like button. 
That way when you see that great post you could like it :mrgreen:


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## publius (Feb 9, 2012)

bigjohn said:


> I really wish we had a like button.
> That way when you see that great post you could like it :mrgreen:


+1 8)


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## Harold_V (Feb 10, 2012)

Johnny Williams said:


> I didnt know we were playing dungeon and dragons.I'm an industrial analysical chemist by degree. Research is my game. Degree 1982. I hope you dont think this forum is the only game in town, it not .


I'm seeing more than enough attitude here. That's going to come to an immdiate end. Do we understand one another?



> True, this is one of the better forum.


You're too kind!

Let me be more specific. 

This forum isn't "one of the better forum"---it's the ONLY forum of worth for those who hope to learn the process of refining precious metals. 

You, sir, are a guest in the house of our leader, Noxx. I fully expect you're going to start displaying a little humility, and behave like the educated person you claim to be, not the moron that you appear to be. 

Let me say it like this-----I was a miserable student---slept through the majority of my high school classes---got no formal education beyond high school aside from a couple quarters of math and chemistry. In spite of my lack of education, I am still able to put a few words together, so they (almost) make sense----and I use spell check because I hope to have others view me as at least modestly well educated, in spite of my lack of formal education. 

You, by sharp contrast, tout your education, yet your posts betray you. You use poor English, you can't spell worth a damn, you use poor punctuation, and you're too damned lazy to use spell check. You may be educated, but right now you're looking like an educated fool. 

Straighten up and offer the apology you owe. Start behaving like the adult you claim to be. If you do not, your stay here will be very brief. Trust me. I do not suffer fools gladly. 

Harold


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## maynman1751 (Feb 10, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> Johnny Williams said:
> 
> 
> > I didnt know we were playing dungeon and dragons.I'm an industrial analysical chemist by degree. Research is my game. Degree 1982. I hope you dont think this forum is the only game in town, it not .
> ...




(Sounds of applause) That's the Harold that we all know and love! And Respect too!


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## Johnny Williams (Feb 10, 2012)

Arthur please except my sincere apology


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## Johnny Williams (Feb 10, 2012)

Arthur Kierski please except my sincere apology


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## arthur kierski (Feb 10, 2012)

i accept your apology------not except------
Arthur Kierski


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## Claudie (Feb 10, 2012)

Everyone makes mistakes, not everyone will admit it. When someone realizes their mistake and tries to make it right by apologizing, I think that deserves a certain amount of respect.


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## niteliteone (Feb 10, 2012)

8)


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## steyr223 (Feb 10, 2012)

arthur how are you
excellent info
aurthur wrote

Photobacterium,the yealds that i wrote in the thread are derived from my experiments--they are true numbers that may vary with the types of cellfones----there might be a big variation in the silver,because only recently i discovered that exists silver in the screens,together with indium------
regards 
Arthur

question not that i do silver yet but i have a line on possably 1000's of screens
but there from unitec scanners do you know if they contain any pm's :shock: 
i will post a pic but will have to wait till tomarrow


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## butcher (Feb 10, 2012)

Johnny Williams,
I had a feeling you were one of the good guy's now lets get back to finding that gold.


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## steyr223 (Feb 16, 2012)

What happened?


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## solar_plasma (Oct 6, 2013)

Arthur wrote:


> Claudie, that is correct---0,025grams or more, sometimes 0,034grams(nokia numbers)



Are those data only from the gold plating on the boards or inklusive all items like flatpacks, microphones and ccd sensors?


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## arthur kierski (Oct 6, 2013)

these data is for the entire board and its components===== 0,025 grams of gold per cell phone
regards
Arthur Kierski


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## bswartzwelder (Oct 21, 2013)

Arthur mentioned there is silver in the screens. It would be my assumption that the silver is somehow either plated or etched onto the glass part of the screen. To recover the silver, would you put the screen into nitric to dissolve it, or would it be possible to separate the silver by melting the glass portion of the screen? I wouldn't think the silver would alloy with the glass, and since the silver would be more dense, I would think it would sink to the bottom of the melt.

Just wondering if others save the screens, and what they do with them.

Bert


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