# melting copper from under the gold



## scrapit (Feb 9, 2010)

I you were able to melt the copper right underneath the gold in some kind of solution without touching the gold and then melt the gold that collects at the bottom of the test area then refine it using electro plating or electrolysis, would this be an easer method than having to hunt down expensive acids? Cause I was watching a YouTube video of a refining process were they just melt the whole board and make large mixed metal sheets and use electro plating to make pure gold


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## nickvc (Feb 10, 2010)

Scrapit im sorry but there really is no easy way to refine gold and all the processes that exist rely on chemicals that are fairly dangerous,thats why this forum exists. Use the search box and read about any method you want including cells then pick the ones that suit your needs.Read Hoke and visit lasersteves site is one of the best pieces of advice i can give you,Hoke gives the basics that most can follow and understand and steves videos allows you to watch various methods in operation.If you still have questions ask, theres no lack of help here if you do your part and read and learn.....


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## Harold_V (Feb 10, 2010)

scrapit said:


> I you were able to melt the copper right underneath the gold in some kind of solution without touching the gold and then melt the gold that collects at the bottom of the test area then refine it using electro plating or electrolysis, would this be an easer method than having to hunt down expensive acids? Cause I was watching a YouTube video of a refining process were they just melt the whole board and make large mixed metal sheets and use electro plating to make pure gold


Clever idea that won't work.

Gold and copper share a nearly identical melting point---but the killer is that molten metals are strong solvents. Even if you could melt the copper and leave the gold as a solid, it would rapidly be dissolved by the molten copper, and, while we're at it, you can forget the idea of metals stratifying. Rarely do they do that. Certainly can't get copper, gold and silver to cooperate. 

While parting metals electrolytically to bring then fine is an acceptable process, it works very best when parting virtually pure metals. If you start with a mix of elements, there are a number of problems that are difficult to overcome, and the end result tends to leave a lot to be desired. 

If you have an interest in refining, unless your objective is to invent a new wheel, I highly recommend you get on with reading Hoke and getting a fundamental understanding of the procedures that are known to work. 

Harold


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## scrapit (Feb 10, 2010)

thanks for the help. i thought id throw it out there and see were it went.

Brad


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## leavemealone (Feb 10, 2010)

Harold I know the video that he is reffering to.I don't think he explained enough to recieve an adequit response(no offense scrapit).In the video a company melts all of the base metals,precious metals,and pgms together,pour it into a thin plateand use it as an anode in a cell.Then using various cathodes they extract off the metals starting with copper using a copper cathode,then silver using a steel cathode,and finally a high percentage of gold is left as the anode.It is most certainly not pheasable for the scale of recovery and refining that we do.In the same time it takes me to melt a couple of pounds in my foundry,the larger smelters can melt tons.


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## Harold_V (Feb 11, 2010)

leavemealone said:


> Harold I know the video that he is reffering to.I don't think he explained enough to recieve an adequit response(no offense scrapit).In the video a company melts all of the base metals,precious metals,and pgms together,pour it into a thin plateand use it as an anode in a cell.Then using various cathodes they extract off the metals starting with copper using a copper cathode,then silver using a steel cathode,and finally a high percentage of gold is left as the anode.It is most certainly not pheasable for the scale of recovery and refining that we do.In the same time it takes me to melt a couple of pounds in my foundry,the larger smelters can melt tons.


Thanks for the input. There are a couple interesting points you divulged, although I'm still not convinced that the process works as suggested. For one, cathode type makes no difference as far as which element is recovered. Electrolyte, and possibly, voltage, does. 

Assuming the plates are thin enough, and the balance of combined elements is reasonable, I can see how you could extract them with some degree of success. The process would be akin to inquartation, leaving behind a honeycomb of material once the first element was recovered. Extracting from both faces, with a thin anode, may allow total extraction before the alloy was isolated. Dunno. 

The basic concept is akin to that which is used by the "big boys" in that they cast bars high in copper and part them in a copper cell, or so we're told. I would not be surprised to discover that the bars are fed to a large reverberatory furnace, where base metals are eliminated in the slag, or exhaust (zinc). Copper refineries must keep their electrolyte in balance in order to achieve the desired results, so they avoid carrying base metals with the copper. 

I have personal experience with parting copper that is not of high purity. It's not as simple as it sounds, and doesn't work as would be hoped. 

Where you been? Haven't seen you here for quite some time. 

Harold


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 11, 2010)

I commented on this video awhile back. 3rd post down

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=6493&p=57531#p57531


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## leavemealone (Feb 11, 2010)

Big Harold wrote:


> Where you been? Haven't seen you here for quite some time.


Hey bud.Yeh Im sorry,We ran into some problems with that guy I told you about that we were buying the house from.Now he's divorcing his wife and he let the home go into forclosure so we have lost over 12k in mortgage pymt's and have to move  .It's ok,you know we will be fine.Thanks for asking,I have missed everyone...and missed helping out.



> There are a couple interesting points you divulged, although I'm still not convinced that the process works as suggested. For one, cathode type makes no difference as far as which element is recovered. Electrolyte, and possibly, voltage, does.


After reading this I went back and watched the video a couple of times and noticed that,the cell that they are removing the copper cathodes from,is not the same cell they are placing the steel cathode into.Which leads me to believe that they are in fact using different electrolytes.

GSP wrote:


> That video doesn't even begin to tell you the whole story and is very, very simplistic. However, it is obvious what they are doing.



You're right chris.I know it's not suppose to work,but like you said...they are obviously doing it,and not giving the full story.For those that want to see it here is a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdu5yS5q2so The part that scrapit was reffering to starts at 2:25(Thanks aflac for the video).But there are other statements in the video that are not true 1:50.He says that after digesting the metals using AR all that is left is pure gold dust.......... :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## scrapit (Feb 11, 2010)

Thank you for explaining that process to me. I guess I wasn't clear enough.


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