# CPU pins & DDR foils



## worker0 (Nov 28, 2019)

Heloo firends, I get lot of CPUs for allmost no cost.
Problem is that I dont have enough space to store them. Then I decided to try with minor sample of 6 pcs to remove just "fingers" from them. I try with blow torch because I dont have heatgun. They only got burned.
Then I decided to put them in HCL. I put 5-6 pcs in glass jar, and cover them with HCL. Absolutly nothing happening, for allmost 12 hours. Do I need to add peroxide. I just need pins to fall of CPU, without gold dissolving. Same is with DDR dimms. Can I use HCL+ small amount of H2O2 to "strip" connector foils WITHOUT dissolving them? 

If not, what can I use to just separate pins and DDR foils, but without dissolving?

Long tie ago I put 1 CPU in concentrated citric acid, and after LONG time pins fall of CPU. 

Thanx in advande


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## butcher (Nov 28, 2019)

HCl alone will not attack copper or gold.

HCl will attack copper oxides (the rusts of copper).

HCl acid with air will oxidize and dissolve some copper, making a copper (II) chloride bright green salt solution.
It is this Copper (II) Chloride that will dissolve the copper, and when it gets used up it will turn to a brown solution of copper (I) Chloride.

Adding air and just a tiny amount of HCl acid will renew the power of the solution to dissolve more copper, as it converts the copper (I) Chloride (brown) back into Copper (II) Chloride (green).

3% hydrogen peroxide is used to give the solution a jump start, in the beginning, to get some air or oxygen into the solution to get some copper (II) chloride started.

If you bubble air into the solution it will work the same as adding the 3% hydrogen peroxide.
H2O2 even at 3% is strong enough of an oxidizer with HCl acid to dissolve gold.


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## worker0 (Nov 28, 2019)

butcher said:


> HCl alone will not attack copper or gold.
> 
> HCl will attack copper oxides (the rusts of copper).
> 
> ...



To dissolve copper or to make pins fall of CPU? I can see for now that RAM stick is gold free, so there is no gold on pins and copper under gold foils changed color. If gold is dissolved, how to recover it? I was thinking that gold foils on RAM module will just fall from RAM stick, and also pins, because i read that only AR can disolve gold. I dont want to dissolve gold, I just need pins to fall off. Also with RAM sticks and SIM cards, then I will collect until final purification. After removing materials ( ram sticks and plastic & ceramic ) from HCL and H2O2 I need to filter solution and thats it?


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## anachronism (Nov 28, 2019)

What you are likely to be seeing is a small amount of Tin having dissolved and plated back onto the gold foils. The gold is still under that although it looks like it has dissolved.


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## worker0 (Nov 28, 2019)

How to recover it if it is dissolved? Watched on youtube and read about it and every one says that HCL and H2O2 will not dissolve gold... just to " strip" foils off.

Is it possible to strip foils and pins with HCL and fishtank bubbler if H2O2 disolve gold???


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## butcher (Nov 28, 2019)

If the gold was dissolved into solution, using the solution to dissolve more copper will make the gold come back out of solution as a brown powder.

The copper will displace (or trade places with) the gold.


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## worker0 (Nov 28, 2019)

Brown powder without copper? I noticed as I put DDR stick gold disapeared and copper under changed color. How to use copper to recover gold? Put piece of copper wire until coper wire get dissolved, remove huge pieces and then filter it? Thanx in advance

Solution have black-ish color for now. Maybe I used too much H2O2. I was in hurry and in glass jar put about 5dL of HCL and about 1,5dL 12% hydrogen which is jelly like with cream, for hair coloring. Now Im found 3% H2O2. In glass jar is about 5 CPUS and 2 stick of DDR for test. So I destroyd gold or to put class 1 copper to recover brown gold powder? It confused me because I watched videos of process and read about it, and nobody say that gold can be dissolved in this solution, just make " gold sludge" on bottom.

PS I know I used too much H202 but it is for hair and there is lot of creme in it and it is not lab grade.

Which process can be used just to peal of fingers from cpu and foils from ddr sticks?


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## butcher (Nov 28, 2019)

worker0,
You are making things harder on yourself.
You are doing before understanding.

You need to understand before doing it.

Yes, you dissolved gold, and the hair bleach may give you more problems.
Now you just have a mess.

Find a copper pipe, cut a piece and split it open and hammer it flat, torch off any oils or varnish and polish it clean.
Use this copper to cement gold from solution, stirring will help, as well as gentle heat, if the solution is dark brown add some air and a few drops of HCl acid until the solution is green, as the copper dissolves the solution will go brown again...

While you probably will have very little gold in this lot, you should spend a little more time studying the process to gain a better understanding of how it works and why that way you know how to fix problems. 

Use the forum search with Words like:

CuCl, CuCl2, cupric chloride, acid peroxide leach, AP, as you learn more you will have more words to use in your search.
In the advanced search, you can use authors, like Laser Steve who saw the potential of the etching process used to make circuit boards, to recover gold foils from circuit boards, and introduced it to the forum.

View attachment Cupric Chloride Etch.docx


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## worker0 (Nov 28, 2019)

Thank you my friend. I did this just for test. On youtube people get piled gold foils and I was trying to do that... Is it possible to achieve this by using 3% h2o2 and HCL in way less ratio? PS and dissolved gold wil stick to copper?

What is the easyest way to remove gold pins and foils from sticks or sim cards? I must reduce my inventory very very urgently.

EDIT: Just came from my first job. Checked solution: It is transparent light green color. Some RAM foils is pealed off like on youtube video, and CPU pins seems like they swinging in solution but not fall off CPU.

It seems that I did not dissolve gold since pins is still shiny 
Reaction dont boil. They sit in solution for only 6 hours. Now I will add another smaller shot of HCL and H2O2 3%


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## butcher (Nov 28, 2019)

You just need to bubble air into the solution, the H2O2 is not needed any longer, it is normally used just to get the process started.


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## worker0 (Nov 28, 2019)

butcher said:


> You just need to bubble air into the solution, the H2O2 is not needed any longer, it is normally used just to get the process started.



I did it like you said.
Next batch: 10-15 CPUs few DDR sticks. First I remove back cover of CPU ( Aluminum ) on which you usualy put thermal paste...

I Take 750 ml Nutella glass jar, put materials in, and put about 550-600 ml of 10-13% HCL and 100 ml of H2O2, and heated by double dish method. After half hour solution is light greenish but there is no bubbles like with 12% H2O2. So I put fish tank bubbler inside. Bubbles is midsize but enough to make litle "shaking" of parts in jar. For now some pins and some foils felt to bottom of the glass jar. Interesting is fact that some gold foils float on top. Is 3% H2O2 and 10-13 % ( written on the bottle ) weak? 
THANK YOU ON ALL USEFUL TIPS AND RECOMENDATIONS @Butcher


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## canedane (Nov 28, 2019)

Why does you mix cpu and gold fingers? Where do you have your AP solution? Dont you have any Pyrex glass?
Is i wice to fill your Nutella glass? Where are your waist chemicals going?


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## FrugalRefiner (Nov 28, 2019)

worker0 said:


> Next batch: 10-15 CPUs few DDR sticks. First I remove back cover of CPU ( Aluminum ) on which you usualy put thermal paste...


I would process CPUs and RAM fingers in separate batches. Did you throw whole "DDR sticks" in, or did you remove the components first or process just the fingers from the RAM?



> I Take 750 ml Nutella glass jar, put materials in, and put about 550-600 ml of 10-13% HCL and 100 ml of H2O2, and heated by double dish method. After half hour solution is light greenish but there is no bubbles like with 12% H2O2.


Too much H2O2. The HCl is also pretty weak, but if that's all you have, that's all you have.



> So I put fish tank bubbler inside. Bubbles is midsize but enough to make litle "shaking" of parts in jar. For now some pins and some foils felt to bottom of the glass jar.


The size of the bubbles isn't very important. The bubbles create circulation in the solution. Most of the oxygen exchange happens at the surface of the solution.



> Interesting is fact that some gold foils float on top.


That usually happens if there was any oil/grease on your feed material. Even finger prints on the fingers are enough to make foils float.



> Is 3% H2O2 and 10-13 % ( written on the bottle ) weak?


3% is what is typically sold in grocery stores and drug stores here, and it works fine. 10-13% is getting strong. Be careful with it. Wear gloves and eye protection. It can burn you.

Dave


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## worker0 (Nov 29, 2019)

10-13 % was for HCL. but forgot to write "HCL". Something is wrong. I put 150 about 150 mL of H2O2 3% and 600mL HCL 10-13%. Acid worked for 10 minutes and stoped. Afted that 15 mins I put SIM card and after 6-7 hours it looks the same. bubbler was also inside. H2O2 stronger than 3% is not allowed to sell in my country. I think that amount off added H2O2 to compensate weaknes , make HCL more dilueted, and this acid cant work anymore. I will try with puttting about 75-100 mL H2O2 and same ammount of acid. Also heated with double dish and nothing...

I break stick in half and put in without removing anything. I will also put bubbler to see results.


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## butcher (Nov 29, 2019)

It sounds like you are using too much H2O2.

The cupric etch is a slow process, you may not see much happening, but that does not mean it is not dissolving metals into solution.

With adding excess H2O2 you may see a more vigorous reaction, but that higher level of oxidation in solution will also begin to attack your gold and then cement it back out onto the remaining copper...


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## worker0 (Nov 30, 2019)

butcher said:


> It sounds like you are using too much H2O2.
> 
> The cupric etch is a slow process, you may not see much happening, but that does not mean it is not dissolving metals into solution.
> 
> With adding excess H2O2 you may see a more vigorous reaction, but that higher level of oxidation in solution will also begin to attack your gold and then cement it back out onto the remaining copper...



Maybe. Acid is weak and when I added h2o2 it dulute more.

Friend told me to mix 10-13% HCL with 3%h2o2 with ratio 3:1. Again get my test samples and hit the bucket. Stick is clean but on sme stick there is remaining pins.

Is there any ratio which I can use to be on "right road" for 3% h2o2 nad 10-13%?

Today is day for processing nano sim cards. In every batch I put few sim cards to see what is going on. Sometimes gold dissapear completely from cards but still remain on DDR pins. I was considerin 1 by 1 pealing. It will be slow. AP process will destroy foils like they did with 20-30 sim cards. *What do you think about burning them and harvesting leftover and do gravity separation of gold and burned plastic?*

I ignited reaction with h2o2 3% and hcl 10-13% put bubbler in. *What timeis usualy requierd to finish? I did not hol any sample longer than 12 hours.* *Do I need to hold them more than 12 - 16 hours?*In last test batch some pins fall of CPU instantly and other did not at all. but I know why, CPU is cerramic and gold cover tin/copper and gold on pins spread all way from top of the pin to cpu and tin/copper is also covered with gold. On this cpu ceramic around pin is also covered with gold and obviously AP cant aproact to copper/tin.

Today I wait for delivery of 12% h202. Can you tell me ratio for 12% h2o2 and 10% hcl?


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## butcher (Nov 30, 2019)

worker0,
Have you studied how this leach works?
Forget using H2O2 you do not need it.
The very little bit of the dilute 3% H2O2 that would be used to get a tiny amount of copper in solution at the beginning can be replaced by just bubbling air, the real purpose for the H2O2 only purpose is to get the leach started, once the solution turns a bit green with copper(II) chloride, all that is needed is air.

The dilute HCl acid will work just fine, it will just take longer, a low gentle heat ( warm sunshine) would concentrate solution through evaporation and make it dissolve the copper faster...

Spend some time studying, at this point you are wasting your time because you do not understand how the leach works.


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## worker0 (Nov 30, 2019)

because of that im trying. To learn. I get some nice samples  what time is usualy requierd to finish? Im also noticed when I bubble solution goes to darker color. What do you think about sim cards, and what do you think why some foils from DDR fall down and 20 out of whole ddr stay on stick?


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## butcher (Nov 30, 2019)

The oxygen in the acidic HCl solution oxidizes the copper. this rust of copper is dissolved into the solution as a green salt of copper, or cupric chloride CuCl2, it is this green solution of copper salt that is used to dissolve copper, iron, or many of these base metals into solution.

The leach will become contaminated when other base metals besides copper are dissolved into solution, this can change the properties of the leach, for example with Iron we can change the solution from being a cupric chloride leach into a ferric chloride...


Several reasons why the solution goes darker.
The green Cupric chloride CuCl2 as it dissolves copper changes to the brown cuprous chloride CuCl, this copper (I) chloride consumes some of the free HCl acid in solution to convert back it back into cupric when the oxygen and the free HCl is consumed the solution will need more air and free HCl to convert the cuprous back into the green cupric.

Iron in solution will be either yellow, green, or brown, to an insoluble rust rouge red, so iron or other base metals in the solution can also give the solution a brown or darker or another color...


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## worker0 (Nov 30, 2019)

I filtered sloution. Im happy it will be probably 18k gold.CPU pins dissapeared but my logic says to mi that material under gold on pins oxidised and/or get dissolved and then gold on pin turn to "foil". I have few condensators in my filter and few pieces of plastic. Filter is cotton peace of cloth, I will put everything in furnance and see. Plastic will evaporate probabbly. since boiling point depends of plastic type but boiling point is about 350 - 450 degrees C.

How much time is needed for this method? Is 12 hours enough, and what do you think about SIMs?

EDIT: you say that I dont need H2O2 even on beggining. Just put material in jar, cover with HCL and put bubbler?


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## AuPure (Nov 30, 2019)

You keep asking how long it takes. The answer is, it takes as long as it takes. There are too many variables here to guess at how long it would take to finish. 

For example: A small batch of just the fingers from ram, let's say 10 fingers, could possibly be done in a couple of days. But a larger batch with other things in the solution, like tin and lead, will take longer. I've had a batch of pins that took almost a month to completely leach the copper away. 

Being in a hurry will only make more trouble for you and create allot more waste. Just leave your current batch in the solution and take this time to search the forum and study. The chemicals will continue to work while you read and learn. 

Ps. Please stop watching YouTube. 90% of those videos are faked and full of misinformation. Its a good way to hurt yourself or others.

I hope you take everyone's advice here and you get yourself a big ol' button of gold for all of your trouble.


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## butcher (Nov 30, 2019)

EDIT: you say that I don't need H2O2 even at the beginning. Just put the material in the jar, cover with HCL and put bubbler?

It would be better than what you are doing now, by overuse of H2O2.

If you burn fine gold with a chloride salt, some of your gold will burn up in the smoke, the chlorine gas, and fine gold, the gold into the fumes along with the other dangerous gases.


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## worker0 (Nov 30, 2019)

I noticed I have few small condensators, which I did not remove from DDR sticks, but this is problem of filtration.I dont think so ( peroxide overuse ) but if you say so thats it. In my country chemical and all other product is bad quality, It wont wonder me even if inside is distiled water. You say that Im abusing peroxide, *how much peroxide you would put on 1 dL of 10% HCL. Do really 10% Acid work without H2O2?*



butcher said:


> *It would be better than what you are doing now, by overuse of H2O2.*
> 
> *If you burn fine gold with a chloride salt, some of your gold will burn up in the smoke, the chlorine gas, and fine gold, the gold into the fumes along with the other dangerous gases.*



Next batch is DDR sticks without condensators, and only with HCL and bubbler. How time is needed for this reaction?

Quote for part " If you burn fine gold with a chloride salt, some of your gold will burn up in the smoke, the chlorine gas, and fine gold, the gold into the fumes along with the other dangerous gases."

You saying this for SIM cards incineration? I*f so what method is btter then? Do Sim cards contain chloride salts?* *What is better method?* HCL and bubbler without H2O2 or to more dilute acid and add only a drop of peroxide?

*And man can you finnaly tell me is 12 - 16 hours enough for Acid Peroxide enough, how to know that it is over?* Thanks in advance


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## butcher (Nov 30, 2019)

what do you call condensators?
Capacitors, or condensers? 

With study, you gain an understanding, then use that understanding of how the process works to judge time, with this study you can learn to speed up reactions where needed and slow down other reactions...

You will find all of the answers to your questions when you study, you will also learn of answers you will not even be able to think of yet, like how silver and gold can become volatile as chlorides especially at high temperatures and go up in the smoke.

In this leach we trade speed for selectivity, we are not as concerned about how fast we can dissolve metal, but more concerned about being selective in which metals we dissolve no matter how long it takes.


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## AuPure (Nov 30, 2019)

worker0 said:


> *And man can you finnaly tell me is 12 - 16 hours enough for Acid Peroxide enough, how to know that it is over?* Thanks in advance



I've never had an acid / peroxide leach work that fast. 12-16 hours would be really fast if it was a good sized batch. In my opinion anyway. In my experience that process can take over 100 hours. Especially with dilute chemicals and if it's cold outside. You know it's done when all the "foils" are loose and there is no more copper on the parts in the solution.


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## Williamjf77 (Nov 30, 2019)

If you have a lot of material like you say I would spend the time separating everything into like materials and reading up on some more of the forum. 

I would heat the acid because you only have 10%hcl and you add too much peroxide so it is a lot of water in there. If it’s cold it could take a lot longer. No need to boil but a cold solution is a slow one.

12-16 hours in my opinion isn’t very long of a wait for a fresh batch of CuCl that is basically @92% water in your case. 

I’m pretty sure that you won’t get anywhere by putting ceramic cpu in that hcl leach but I could be wrong.


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## Williamjf77 (Nov 30, 2019)

Maybe you can find anhydrous ferric chloride for PCBs etching. I used to buy it for PCBs. It was a Black and Tan kind of powder and was mixed with water so it could be made pretty strong. From what I remember it was very fast.


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## worker0 (Dec 1, 2019)

But what to do with SIM cards ? Acid Peroxide dont work. They get copper color and thats it. Burning them and then melting? Or do AR ?

EDIT: just seen video of a guy which dissolve sim cards in Acid-Peroxide ( HCL acid ) solution and participate gold with SMB, does this work or it is fake?


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## Williamjf77 (Dec 2, 2019)

I think SIM cards will do fine in CuCl, you probably aren’t leaving them in long enough. I only say to try to get dry ferric chloride because you don’t need to add acid only water, Since you can only get weak hcl.


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## kernels (Dec 2, 2019)

And really, at the end of the day, if they best you can get is 10% HCl, then maybe Gold recovery and refining in your location is not something you should waste your time pursuing ?


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## worker0 (Dec 3, 2019)

kernels said:


> And really, at the end of the day, if they best you can get is 10% HCl, then maybe Gold recovery and refining in your location is not something you should waste your time pursuing ?



I can order, about 30% HCL and ??% Nitric acid, urea and sodim metabuslfite. Im thinking about Aqua Regia...

*Is it possible that SMB recover dissolved gold from HCL - peroxide solution?*



Williamjf77 said:


> I think SIM cards will do fine in CuCl, you probably aren’t leaving them in long enough. I only say to try to get dry ferric chloride because you don’t need to add acid only water, Since you can only get weak hcl.



Gold foils dont peal off sim cards, gold dissapear and copper under gold foil start to to change color to rust like, but there is no even trace of gold foil. When gold dissapear in CuCL / AP proccess, how to recover it? With copper cementation? First class copper into solution and wait to to gold stick to copper, or to put SMB?


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 3, 2019)

Worker0
I think that the rust color you describe is actually your gold.
By adding too much peroxide you dissolve the gold and it cements out as a fine cinnamon/brown color powder.
The AP leaching needs plenty of time, maybe even weeks, depending of conditions.
You need HCl and a splash (cap full) of peroxide to start it, after that no more peroxide is needed.
Patience is probably our best asset


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## worker0 (Dec 3, 2019)

Yggdrasil said:


> Worker0
> I think that the rust color you describe is actually your gold.
> By adding too much peroxide you dissolve the gold and it cements out as a fine cinnamon/brown color powder.
> The AP leaching needs plenty of time, maybe even weeks, depending of conditions.
> ...



Clolor is something between light cinnamon and light red-ish?

So basicly, I need to put SIM cards in, cover with HCL + add just few drops H2O2, put bubbler in, and forget on it for etc 1 week? Then gold foils will "peal" off ?

How to recover gold from cemented copper?


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 3, 2019)

If the gold has cemented out on the copper it willl emerge as a powder as soon as it has ben stirred enough and/or the copper has been dissolved.
In other words: 
The said gold are then not in flakes anymore, but in powder form.
Another thing to remember here (correct me if I'm wrong) is that most of the gold is in the chip inside. 
(Inside a black polymer blob I think) Which will not be accessible until the sim has been properly pyrolized and incinerated.

If I remember correct, Tzoax, Kjavanb and a few others have a few threads about this.

It is still wise to clean the foils/powders thorough in HCl before they are refined, you will get much cleaner gold then


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## butcher (Dec 3, 2019)

I never processed them or paid much attention to how they are processed. in fact, I really do not know much about sim cards.

The paper will soak up acids and dissolved metals, the leach needs access to the metal.
Any aluminum or other metal cases removed...

Many times the gold you can see is not much at all but there is more gold in tiny bonding wires.
visible gold on the pad is not much gold, inside the microchip, there are most likely gold bonding wires where the real gold is.
I would incinerate to get to the gold or to all of the base metals...
You could even use flux and a little collector metal.

Now that we can get to the metals we could dissolve everything and cement out what we will. or leach the base metals away from the gold first...


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## worker0 (Dec 4, 2019)

butcher said:


> I never processed them or paid much attention to how they are processed. in fact, I really do not know much about sim cards.
> 
> The paper will soak up acids and dissolved metals, the leach needs access to the metal.
> Any aluminum or other metal cases removed...
> ...



You said that incineration is bad for SIM cards because some gas will destroy gold.

Yes there is gold " wires" inside it. under copper/ gold.

My plan was to put them in metal dish, and heat it until plastic evaporate. Collect leftover and try gravity filtration if it is possible to remove ash ( if there is any ). Then melt, and run AR if it is les than 16/18 karat.

I educated myself @butcher about process and read a lot. Plan for AR is next:

1. all precaution measures to prevent environmental polution, and protect myself!

2. Put material in glass dish.
3. Cover with HCL
4. Slowly add nitric acid ( even drop by drop ) until reaction is started.
5. When all is dissolved, add urea dissolved in water drop by drop until solution stop react on urea.
6. Slowly shot it with SMB - double of the ammount of gold disolved.
7. Melt

Is there any mistake?


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## butcher (Dec 4, 2019)

You said that incineration is bad for SIM cards because some gas will destroy gold.

I never remember saying such a thing, I may warn about incinerating chlorides with gold or silver...



My plan was to put them in a metal dish, and heat it until plastic evaporate. Collect leftover and try gravity filtration if it is possible to remove ash ( if there is any ). Then melt, and run AR if it is less than 16/18 karat.

Where did the 18 karat gold come from? I thought you were working with those little phone cards?

I educated myself @butcher about process and read a lot. Plan for AR is next:

1. all precaution measures to prevent environmental pollution, and protect myself!

How, how are you keeping the fumes from polluting your area, did you study how to re-burn these dangerous gases with a simple afterburner design? how are you dealing with toxic waste?

2. Put material in a glass dish.
3. Cover with HCL
4. Slowly add nitric acid ( even drop by drop ) until the reaction is started.
5. When all is dissolved, add urea dissolved in water drop by drop until the solution stop react on urea.

Urea is dangerous and useless.

6. Slowly shot it with SMB - double of the amount of gold dissolved.
I do not understand how you shot it with SMB, and double the amount of dissolved gold?

7. Melt

Sounds like you have studied youtube, or in the wrong places, and need to put away the acids and study more before you begin.

Is there any mistake?


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## worker0 (Dec 4, 2019)

Slowly add SMB in acid mix and it will requier about 2x more SMB then gold dissolved in acid.

In some other topic you stated that Urea is needed for removing excess of nitric acid, which wont be needed in this case because I will use little as much possobe nitric acid.

And yes. Oxy "afterburner" which can burn up to 3000C

And yes, melt after filtration.


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## butcher (Dec 4, 2019)

Sulfamic acid is helpful to remove free nitric from aqua regia.
Ferrous sulfate will also work to de-NOx an aqua regia solution and precipitate the gold, where sodium metabisulfite cannot effectively de-NOx the solution...



In some other topic, you stated that Urea is needed for removing the excess of nitric acid, which won't be needed in this case because I will use little as much possible nitric acid.

Can you show me the topic where I said that?
I do not remember recommending using urea?



I may have said urea is not needed, and I may have said urea nitrate is an explosive compound, I may have said urea is useless, I may have said that urea it is an ok fertilizer for growing grass, I may have said urea will not remove free nitric acid from aqua regia...


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## worker0 (Dec 4, 2019)

Will this method work or not?


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## butcher (Dec 4, 2019)

Will this method work or not?

The question I would ask is not will a method work or not, but do I understand the process and can I make it work, do I understand the process enough to overcome problems when they arise... 

Like our other new friend, you are jumping from process to process without learning much before you jump to a new one...

You have not studied the processes enough to learn them.
you are trying to learn on difficult scrap material, instead of gaining experience with some simple material and simple process, studying them well before you begin and following the process through to the end. learning on the simpler materials before trying to learn on more complex scrap, learning how to work safely...

This is like you are trying to teach yourself how to plow but you keep wanting to pull on the mule that will not move, and nobody is holding the plow handle.


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## worker0 (Dec 4, 2019)

Then Cmmon man write and explain the process, I did not see any book you write. We waiting for you and your I :lol:


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## butcher (Dec 4, 2019)

Then Cmmon man write and explain the process, I did not see any book you write. We waiting for you and your I :lol:

Did you look for what I write?

The books that I write are for my personal use only, I do not publish them, but I have shared (most all) of the more important information they contain here on the forum through discussions and trying to help others learn.

I am a common man, and I have written and explained, not in a book, but here on the forum.

If you wish to read what is not in my book, but on the forum click below:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?author_id=1532&sr=posts

A good book written by the common man (or woman in this case) is Hoke's book, she wrote it in a way the common man could understand, and she explains the process.

It is not as much about how to do a process, as it is about understanding the process.

The processes can be written out in detail where you could learn to teach any monkey to recover and refine your gold for you.

But unless you have a good understanding of that process, you and the monkey would both be standing over a beaker of dangerous gases and colored salts scratching your heads wondering what went wrong and what to do next with some minor problem.

The written description in a book (a video) cannot cover every little minor difference in chemistry or reaction. it cannot teach you to think and solve problems, it cannot teach you how or why...
That is why we study, not only to learn everything we can about the process, but also so we can understand how and why it works, and how to fix it if it does not...


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## g_axelsson (Dec 4, 2019)

worker0 said:


> Then Cmmon man write and explain the process, I did not see any book you write. We waiting for you and your I :lol:



That seems a bit disrespecting to say to the number one poster of this forum.

I'm waiting for an apology after you have read all his 8995 post to date.

Göran


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## AuPure (Dec 4, 2019)

g_axelsson said:


> worker0 said:
> 
> 
> > Then Cmmon man write and explain the process, I did not see any book you write. We waiting for you and your I :lol:
> ...



Agreed!


I'm a new "member" here. But I have been reading and studying this forum as a guest for over 7 years. In that time I never even opened the first bottle of chemicals. I read, re-read, and read again. And the end result was great! My first time processing electronic scrap went text book perfect. And the first "problem" I ran into I knew exactly how to fix. I haven't had to ask for any help because all the information I need is already here.

And if you took a few days to search the forum you would certainly see that others have done sim cards before. I bet they even have posts that show the troubles they ran into and how they fixed it. I know for a fact that info is here because I read it myself and I have no sim cards to process myself. But the info in those posts have helped me to make decisions about how to process other forms of e-scrap.


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## worker0 (Dec 4, 2019)

I confess It sounds dissrespecting, but also his attitude is a litle bit arrogant.
Thanks


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## galenrog (Dec 4, 2019)

My advice to you, worker0, is to put your toys away. Read Hoke’s “Refining Precious Metal Wastes”. Read it again. Read it again. Continue until you begin to have an understanding of the processes she describes. Perform the acquaintance experiments described until you have a good practical understanding of each of them. 

When you come to a speed bump, or a roadblock, please ask questions. 

Additionally, when I do any recovery or refining, I make a flowchart. Illustrated. This helps me respond when something unexpected comes up. 

Time for more coffee.


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 4, 2019)

worker0 said:


> I confess It sounds dissrespecting, but also his attitude is a litle bit arrogant.
> Thanks



Wrong answer! Butcher is among the most helpful and least arrogant members here. Since Göran was the first moderator to mention it, I'll leave it to him to decide if you stay around.

Dave


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## anachronism (Dec 4, 2019)

worker0 said:


> I confess It sounds dissrespecting, but also his attitude is a litle bit arrogant.
> Thanks



Now.

There are two approaches that can be taken here. 

Door number 1.

One is to go into a liberal luvvy huddle and try to work out if your childhood and upbringing contributed to your apparent lack of anything remotely resembling politeness and courtesy, and to see if there were any contributing factors surrounding your comment. Things like maybe a member saying things that led you to be like this, or possibly didn't understand your issues and responded inappropriately. i.e. The apologist approach where nothing ever gets done. 

Door number 2. 

To inform you that you either make a full apology in public to Butcher otherwise your ass is history forthwith and you lose the chance of this absolutely brilliant place of learning.

I'll take door number two and I know for a fact that most other members would. Then again, my opinion doesn't count but I thought I would put it out there.

Jon


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## Shark (Dec 4, 2019)

Butcher has put forth 14 replies in an effort to help you in this thread alone. Looks to me like you have not even read his last book let alone all the others he has posted on this forum. 

Go back read AuPure's post and see what reading the forum can do. I know, I am one of those who learned much from reading the forum before jumping in as well.



AuPure said:


> Agreed!
> 
> 
> I'm a new "member" here. But I have been reading and studying this forum as a guest for over 7 years. In that time I never even opened the first bottle of chemicals. I read, re-read, and read again. And the end result was great! My first time processing electronic scrap went text book perfect. And the first "problem" I ran into I knew exactly how to fix. I haven't had to ask for any help because all the information I need is already here.
> ...




While I enjoy watching new members grow and progress it does have it's limits. Doing things, such as learning by reading free information, is how we help ourselves. It shows that we are trying. We can move up, and even might need to pay for some information later, but that is just an option, all though a good option at times. I used to tell people to read until it hurt then read it again, I still stand by that today. We have a saying around here that goes, "never look a gift horse in the mouth", and that goes doubly for the horse that is trying to get you to your destination.


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## worker0 (Dec 4, 2019)

Im done with reading Hoke's book for first time ( app. 20 days ago). And decided to try, To be honest, I did not know that some topics exist even if Im allready searched for them on this forum, I found them by going from page to page ( probably keyword or my mistake ).


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## butcher (Dec 4, 2019)

worker0,
I have no problem with you, and I can understand your frustration.
You think what we do is easy, and that it should be easy to learn, well it is not easy, and most all of us here on the forum have spent years to learn, and we have also spent years trying to help new members like you with what we have learned, 

We spend our time studying, we also spend our time learning the dangers.

When I tell you that you do not know what you are doing and you should stop and study, it is only the truth it is and my attempt to get you to see that what you are doing is dangerous, it takes years to learn how to recover and refine gold, and the more you spend your time studying the faster you learn.

Read Hokes book again, and again, over and over, you will not understand much after reading it for the first time, we may have to read it over before we understand it, You will be learning a new language and at first will not understand much, but the more you study the more you will gain in understanding and before you know it the light bulbs will light up for you.

I also apologize for my bedside manners, my comments are not to degrade you, they are my attempt to help or steer you in a direction where you can better help yourself.


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