# Newbie diary! Fingers and AP!



## thereisnospoon (Mar 23, 2008)

Well, I have been bitten by the PM bug and can't get it out of my system. After some research and discussion with even some folks here regarding recovering Gold from computer boards, I had decided to sell the lot and be done with it. However, I couldn't get comfortable with that decision ( :twisted: ), so I decided to do a small batch and see how it goes. This is my diary.

First, let me say this: I appreciate all the information on this site and Steve's videos. Without this information, I would NOT have even attempted this.

Next, I didn't really decide to do this until this am, so I am 20+ hours into the experiement as I start this diary. Here goes:

Friday March21, 2008

After doing some other scrap work (lead reclaiming), I procured a large box of boards from the stash I have been offered. The original box is about 4' cubed and probably weighs around 600-750 lbs. Here's a pic of the (now half empty) box that I brought as a test batch.


[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0012-1.jpg[/img]

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0013.jpg[/img]

My son and I (7yo) spent a few hours Friday night removing the fingers using the bench vise mehtod. We ended up snapping about half the boards fingers off and also there were quite a few of the boards that had Gold plated connectors of various sorts. We removed them as well. If it looked gold in color, we pulled it off and put it in the bucket. We ended up with 802 grams of fingers/parts.

Here is my first concern-I think some of the non-finger parts may contaminate my solution with non PM, but live and learn...

Saturday March 22, 2008

After a trip to Home Depot for supplies (buckets, Acid, gloves) we were back and ready to go. I created a little stand outside (ventilation) to do the initial work.

(Please pardon the messy surroundings, I am a pack rat!)
[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0005.jpg[/img]

I followed the video as best I could to begin. I will say I added 2 more safety items that I felt were inportant-and one proved to be extremely important for me. I added a mask to reduce inhaling the fumes and also safety glasses. At the time, I had on my Oakley M-Frames...part of me thought I should change them for something a little less pricey or just take them off, but something inside me knew what a messy lab partner I was back in nuclear medicine school (general chem and all that) so I left them on. 

Good thing I did. As I was adding the acid to the fingers, there was an immediate splash and one little drop landed right in front of my right eye...burning a quick spot on the glasses. Glad I left them on! I am sure it was a twist of fate, but I began pouring a little more cautiosly after that. I have replaced the Oakley's with regular lab/safety glasses.

I have frequently aggetated the fingers and added an extra cup of peroxide after about one hour. That really got things cooking, so I have stopped there. I may add more later today if things don't heat up, but all in all I think thinigs are going well.

Also, I am glad I didn't do more than this amount. Actually, for my set up, this is probably a little too mcuh volume of fingers/parts. I noticed Steve did around 600 grams in the video and that seems easier to work with. The extra 200 grams makes it hard to aggetate and it seems there is not enough room for the acid to work the foils loose. Any suggestions welcome here as to how to proceed with this batch...

Sunday March 23, 2008

After 20 hours in the Ap here are my fingers:

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0006.jpg[/img]

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0007.jpg[/img]

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0008.jpg[/img]

There's gold in that there bucket ( I know it;s hard to see and that is really corny-but I had to say it!)!

This is proving to be very enjoyable, and regardless of yield, unless something really crazy happens, I think I'll keep at this.

Feel free to chime in and make any suggestions. I have pretty tough skin and am not easily offended.

Happy Easter!

Spoon


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## Platdigger (Mar 23, 2008)

Happy Easter!

Hate to say it, but, just looking at the pics of those boards,
I think they may have been worth far more to a large
recycler with the fingers left intact.
Than anything you may gain by proccessing just the fingers.
Aren't those boards mostly older ones? Like say late 70s or 80s?
Randy


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## thereisnospoon (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks for the input.

I have a guy local coming to look at the boards nex t week, but I wanted to do some just to get it out of my system! and to see if it was something I could do.

The box in my pictures is just a small sampling of what I actually have access to...probably 4-5 times that amount still left at the shop.

What would boards of that vintage rate per pound?

Spoon


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## lazersteve (Mar 23, 2008)

The AP reaction looks good so far, but I see a few things that might be troublesome.

As you mentioned the fingers contain other components which won't dissolve in AP the smaller ones will need to be fished out in the end and the gold foils rinsed away from them as best as possible. The HCl-Cl will remove the foils from the smaller stuff just fine, so it's really no big deal.

Randy is right about the fully gold plated boards, these are better stripped of components and processed in the whole or shipped off as is.

The older fingers are going to take some time to strip compared to the newer ones and will give you some grief when trying to decide when to stop the reaction. I would start to pluck out the ones that are being stubborn and combined them into a batch of their own. This is a prime example as to why I sort my fingers into grades before processing.

All in all it looks very good. An air bubbler and a loose cover would have sped things up little bit also.

My typical batch is 5 pounds at a time, but the 1-2 pound batches are much easier to learn on.

Steve


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## zauggart (Mar 23, 2008)

hi there
those might be old cards etc but wouldent they have a better gold plate on them than the new ones?
thanks
Ian


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## thereisnospoon (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks for all the input. Again, I really appreciate all the help and words of wisdom. It is hard to find a group of people who will willingly share their knowledge and experteise, but ya'll are wonderful.

As to selling the boards vs. doing it myself, I really just needed to get this out of my system. If the gentlman makes me a reasonable offer, then I will probably sell whats left. I also have another lead on another similar sized pile of baords that someone will "give" me, so I am sure I will end up selling some of them for sure.

As you noticed, some of these boards are absolutely covered in gold and I haven't even touched the "good" ones yet. I put those aside for the sale pile.

The foils do seem a little stubborn (as Steve suggested)...do I just need to continue to aggetate and let the acid work or pick out the stubborn ones and do them again in a smaller batch? Can I reuse the current batch of solution if I add more peroxide to bring it back to life?

Question: what is a bubbler? where can I get one?

I also need to order some SMB and testing solution.

I'll have to pickout the "crap" i put in the bucket and carefully wash my gloves back into the bucket in order to really purify my batch, right?


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## lazersteve (Mar 23, 2008)

The AP is reusable, with an aquarium bubbler or additional peroxide. 

Picking out the stubborn ones is what I would do if necessary. Don't do this until after all the others are stripped and you try squirting the stubborn ones with water. Sometimes you will find the foils come off when sprayed. 

As I mentioned, if the junk isn't made of base metals you can leave it and the HCl-Cl will dissolve the gold leaving the trash. If the trash contains undissolved base metals it's best to pick it out when you are rinsing everything.

Steve


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## thereisnospoon (Mar 24, 2008)

Monday March 24, 2008

The fingers looked great this morning. Lots of gold flakes floating in the solution when I aggetated and lots of completely blank fingers. However, there are still some stubborn ones. I addedthe bubbler todaya dn I will aggetate a few more times-maybe even swap the fingers around a little (I did this yesterday as well, being sure to rinse my glove back into the solution very well afterward).

I am actually going out of town for the next few days and may just let the fingers soak while I am gone.

The trash has even started to release it's treasure (a little)- I'll get pics later today or tomorrow before I leave town.


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## lazersteve (Mar 24, 2008)

You may be better served pouring off the solution into a second bucket and harvesting the first batch of foils before you depart. The AP solution has a greater tendency to absorb gold the longer it is allowed to soak, especially if excess peroxide is present. Air doesn't have this same effect, just peroxide.

Don't leave the separated foils to dry out until they are properly washed free of all copper chlorides (off white powder) and residue copper metals. If you are in a hurry you can leave them in a safe place with a soak of HCl. Remember the HCl vapors will attack whatever metal is nearby. It won't hurt to cover the soaking foils. Just be sure to open the sealed container cautiously (don't inhale the fumes when the container is first opened and open outdoors) when you return.

Steve


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## thereisnospoon (Mar 25, 2008)

Monday March 24, 2008 5:30 pm

Took steve's advise (duh!) and processed this batch.

I followed the instructions on the video as carefully as possible. However, as a complete newbie/novice, I will say that Steve makes a lot of this look very easy on the tutorial videos. 

I think I sprayed an extra gallon of water into my solution during the seperation process. :lol: Some of the foils were very stubborn and if I do another batch, they will have to be included, but for the most part, the AP solution did the trick

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0023.jpg[/img]

There was also a good deal of "trash" in my final product as I included a few things to see if they would dissolve in the AP...I'll know better next time (if there is a next time?)  I also have a bunch of filters that have flakes of gold in them I could NOT rinse clean-regardless of how much water I sprayed on them (and into my gold flakes...argh!!!)

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0024.jpg[/img]

(this is my rinse bucket for the clean fingers and strainer bucket)

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0025.jpg[/img]

All in all, this was a fun learning experience for me and my 7 yo son, as well as my wife and college-aged daughter. They rolled their eyes all weekend as I worked over my little project until I showed them this:

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0029.jpg[/img]

They were suddenly silent-as even they could see the value in the process... :lol: 

I really think- better yet I know- a professional will get a higher yield. I am sure there is a lot of gold flake blowing around the neighborhood as we speak, but it was a real experience.

Again, this site is great and I will let y'all know ho I do with the Board sale.

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0030.jpg[/img]

(Sorry-crappy picture)

Would their be anything wrong with just keeping the gold in this form for awhile until I decide what to do next?


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## Harold_V (Mar 25, 2008)

thereisnospoon said:


> There was also a good deal of "trash" in my final product as I included a few things to see if they would dissolve in the AP...I'll know better next time (if there is a next time?)  I also have a bunch of filters that have flakes of gold in them I could NOT rinse clean-regardless of how much water I sprayed on them (and into my gold flakes...argh!!!)



Can you say * incineration*?

Harold


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## Platdigger (Mar 25, 2008)

One thing I was getting at with some of these older boards, is the fact that there may be even more value in the chips, than the fingers.
And when you go to sell them to a refiner it seems they will pay more for boards that are left intact, except to remove iron and transformers and such. Things that bring the value down by adding low value weight.
Randy


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## Exibar (Mar 25, 2008)

how much gold you think you yielded from that batch of 800grams of fingers?
Looks like a nice amount you got there!

Mike B


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## skyline27 (Mar 26, 2008)

Harold
I fail to see the benefit of incineration in this case. The detritus will be filtered out once the foils are put into solution. Incineration would seem to be an additional step with no benefit. It would still have to be filtered anyway.

Am I missing something?


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## istari9 (Mar 26, 2008)

I believe he is refering to burning the used filters.. Or not
Ray


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## Harold_V (Mar 26, 2008)

skyline27 said:


> Harold
> I fail to see the benefit of incineration in this case. The detritus will be filtered out once the foils are put into solution. Incineration would seem to be an additional step with no benefit. It would still have to be filtered anyway.
> 
> Am I missing something?


All depends on what was included in the filter as regards the benefits of incineration. I got the impression that some of the garbage may have been of such a nature that it would burn, reducing the amount of material remaining to trap solutions. Assuming the garbage was not combustible, then I would be wrong in my assessment. 

However, the fact that there was gold that would not wash off the filter, in spite of repeated attempts, is a perfect reason to incinerate.  Everything, not just the filter. Once done, assuming the first operation was conducted with nitric, the entire lot could then be subjected to a wash in boiling HCl and water-----which works wonders towards making solutions filter well, plus removing unwanted substances. Yes------you may be missing something, but you likely can't understand that you are. You may accept some of the problems that go with filtration as one of the costs of filtering. I didn't. 

I don't much care what the material is with which one starts----incineration plays a very big role in making things run smoothly. Only when you incorporate the process in refining and experience the difference will it make sense. It's like a microwave oven for folks that have never hand one. You can't really see the benefits------but try getting along without one once you've used it. And so it goes with incineration. 

There's not much you can teach me about filtering gold chloride solutions. I've been through the worst possible scenarios, along with much the same thing with filtering silver nitrate solutions, especially those recovered from dental amalgam. My processing eliminated, ENTIRELY, any filtration problems. All of it due to proper incineration and/or washing. I recall all too well a gold chloride solution, about a liter in volume, that took three days to get through a Whatman #2 filter. That is totally unnecessary, assuming you understand the methods and reap the benefits of proper incineration and washing. 

You might consider giving it a go some day when you're having trouble filtering a solution. There's much to be gained, and it takes almost no time. 

I should mention----it's too late when you have the gold dissolved. You have to do it prior to dissolution of the gold. 

Harold


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## lazersteve (Mar 26, 2008)

Harold,

In many past experiments I have seen the benefits of incineration first hand, so I know you are right. 

I had previously expressed skepticism about incinerating the gold foils from finger scrap due to the very thin nature of the foils. I've been thinking your comments over and I have decided to give your approach a fair shake. I will test incineration on the next batch of washed finger foils I process. I'll post the results.

Thanks for your expert advice,

Steve


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## Harold_V (Mar 26, 2008)

Credit is due Hoke, not me. I learned from her book and found the recommended processes were very worthwhile. 

Once I understood the benefits, I exercised poetic license and applied the principles to other circumstances. It was only then that I mastered the art of filtration. If you've ever processed solder bearing material with nitric acid, you likely understand all too well what I'm talking about. Processing eye glass frames was an excellent example of taking advantage of incineration and an additional acid wash to improve filtration. 

Harold


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## thereisnospoon (Mar 27, 2008)

Okay, I know your responfing to each other, but let me interupt.

How/why/when should I use insineration? Are their any links I could use to educte myself?

I have lots of gold still stuck to coffee fi9lters and in the bottoms of buckets I could NOT get out.

Any help is appreciated.


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## Harold_V (Mar 27, 2008)

thereisnospoon said:


> How/why/when should I use insineration? Are their any links I could use to educte myself?
> 
> I have lots of gold still stuck to coffee fi9lters and in the bottoms of buckets I could NOT get out.
> 
> Any help is appreciated.



The best answer I can give you is buy Hoke's book. Please do avoid her advice to liberally toss on gasoline when incinerating. 

Incinerating isn't anything mysterious-----you simply ignite all the combustibles in a shallow pan (a stainless fry pan purchased from Goodwill stores works well), heating until all the carbonaceous material has been eliminated. The pan can be heated by a gas hot plate, adjusted to allow a high flame. This operation should be done in a hood that can't burn, and has a furnace type filter, to recover traces of values that are carried in the smoke. There are losses of values in almost all of these processes, so a filtered hood is a good idea, even if you have no intentions of incinerating. 

Harold


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## thereisnospoon (Apr 2, 2008)

I have been able to go back and get the remaining foils that were stubborn from the fingers I processed, but I have a few questions:

Will AP solution work for plated pieces such as pictured below?

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0048.jpg[/img]

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0051.jpg[/img]

Will AP work for the boards that are covered in gold as well sa the fingers? If not what can I use to finish these boards (after stripping the other material away mechanically)?

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0049.jpg[/img]

I have sold the remaining boards tp a local refiner in Alabama, but I'd like to eek out as much as I can from the sample boards I did myself


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## lazersteve (Apr 2, 2008)

AP will work on all copper based items. The boards, connectors, and pins you posted above should all work fine. Anything magnetic should be process with alternate routes (cell, crockpot+ HCl, or other).

Steve


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## thereisnospoon (Apr 6, 2008)

A little farther along in my process, I now have AuCl3!

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0054.jpg[/img]

These are from 2 different attempts to melt the gold. The pan had roughly 40 grams of gold foils and other "junk" that I was unable to pick out by hand, so I had to actually melt twice. I used a cup of Hcl and a little Clorox each time, draining the first batch of liquid after 15 minutes had elapsed and there was no more reaction that I could see, then repaeting the melt in the same pan, etc.

My SMB should be here tomorrow or Tuesday, so hopefully, I'll have a nice gold bead for show and tell next weekend.

Here's the funny thing, when I was melting the foils with the Hcl-Cl I got a really funny salt that stuck to everything...I am assuming it was the solder mask that Steve referenced in his video, but it didn't look the same.

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0052.jpg[/img]

Did I do somthing wrong or is it just different lighting for the pictures and the video?

Also, I measured the mass of gold and other material before melting and after I measured the leftover salt and small parts that did not melt and the difference was ~20 grams!

Here's the leftovers...

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0053.jpg[/img]

I would appreciate any pointers or insight as I move forward.

Also: What type of masks do y'all recommend? I was using an N95 for most f the process, but today when I was melting the foils-outside for good ventilation-I could really tell the N95 wasn't enough and had to back away for quite a while while the reaction took place...watching from a distance.

Thanks,
Spoon


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## Rag and Bone (Apr 6, 2008)

It looks like there are still undissolved foils in the "leftovers". It will take a lot longer to dissolve 20+ grams of foils than it will just a few grams. The salts that form are expected. Make sure to keep the salts out of your clean auric chloride. From this point on keep the gold solution as clean as possible and filter well. Any oil or contaminates will make the gold powder harder to work with. 

Have fun dropping it! Keep us posted.


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## thereisnospoon (Apr 8, 2008)

Okay, new twist.

When I came down to process some more stuff today, the AuCl3 from the other day looked funny. There was a white cottage cheese like substance floating on the bottom of the glass jar.

I figured it was some type of contaminate, so I poured/filtered off the liquid into a new vessel and here's what I just found when I returned to make sure it had all drained well...

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0055.jpg[/img]

There is a white powder in the filter and around the edges (as you can see) there is purple stain...which I think is gold?


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## lazersteve (Apr 8, 2008)

Sounds like silver chloride, starts out like white cottage cheese and changes to purple when exposed to light.

Steve


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## thereisnospoon (Apr 8, 2008)

The second jar of AuCl3 has now developed a small amount of the same stuff. Repeat the filtering and off to the silver pages?

Should I still drop the Gold with the SMB or should I do something else? I have tried to learn more about the silver, but there is a lot to digest on this site (thankfully!)...

I have watched the video on Steve's site regarding recovering the silver from solution using copper, but should I do this after I drop the gold or before?

Spoon


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## thereisnospoon (Apr 13, 2008)

I finally got my SMB in and percipitated the AuCl3. I started with a litle over a full quart and diluted it to 3 quarts using distilled water.

I am a little concerned about the results. I mixed the SMB per a post by Steve using 47g SMB for 100 ml of distilled water, making a total of 94 gr in 200 ml. I used about 1/2 in the solution, not because I thought there was 47 grams of gold in the solution, but because it was hard to guage how much was going in as I poured.

I began stiring as per the video and unlike the video, my reaction was VERY S-L-O-W. I had a panicked moment as the AuCl3 solution cleared but then no darkeneing...for almost a full 2 minutes.

Then relief as nice dark percipitate started to form. However, as you can see from the pictures, the solution is still cloudy 24 hours later and there is some gold powder floating on top of the solution.

Any thoughts would be appreciated...as always.


A picture of the remaining SMB for review:
[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0068.jpg[/img]

The initial reaction phase:
[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0064.jpg[/img]

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0066.jpg[/img]

floating:
[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0067.jpg[/img]


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## Rag and Bone (Apr 13, 2008)

I was having the same problem. I heat up my gold solution and let it simmer for a while to get rid of the chlorine before proceeding to precipitation.


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## thereisnospoon (Jun 21, 2008)

Well, I have been very busy with the new job and all, but finally found some time today to purify some gold that had been dropped about 2 months ago. It was sitting in a small amount of SMB with a little water added to cover it and keep it from drying out.

All was going well...I had a good clump of gold from the fingers I had cleaned using the AP method. Then I got to the Ammonia wash. I covered the powder in ammonia andbegan heating. I was watching for the ammonia to begin boiling so I could keep it from sticking when all of a sudden there was a loud "POP" and a bubble and gold went flying everywhere out of my beaker.   I lost about 1/4 of the powder all over the burner I was using.

Obviously it got hotter than I thought- faster than I imagined, but I was able to salvage some of the powder by simply wetting my finger and picking up the powder/flakes then rinsing them into a new beaker to be remelted and dropped with my next batch.

I still ended up with right at 16 grams of powder (wet weight). I am going to let it evaporate/dry then I'll get some pictures posted. I am guessing I will end up around 10-12 grams once it dries.

I still have about another 100 pounds of boards to strip, so hopefully I'll continue to get better and make less costly mistakes along the way. I also have about 5-7 lbs of pins to process, but I am waiting to complete either of these tasksk until we move to our new house.

Some pics of the powder:

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0093.jpg[/img]

[IMG:800:610]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/thereisnospoon1/IMG_0094.jpg[/img]


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## Lou (Jun 21, 2008)

The very easy answer to why it took so long is that you diluted it way, way, way, way too much!!! You need to have the AuCl3 to the point where it is very concentrated. Keep solution volume down to a minimum. It will mean faster reactions and less to filter!


Lou


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## thereisnospoon (Jun 22, 2008)

When I finish with the SMB, I usually siphon off the excess fluid, so other than having to deal with a little more waste, that wasn't the issue. Sorry the pictures are misleading, but the image of the AuCl3 is from before I siphon off the SMB.

Then I went to the beaker and there is where I had the "explosion" mishap. It was a 500 ml beaker much like the 250 in the last picture.

So, I watched Steve's video and he said he usually dilutes the AuCl3 three times over before dropping with SMB...should I be doing less?

Thanks for your comments, Lou. I really like that there are so many folks here that are willing to share their knowledge, etc.


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## lazersteve (Jun 22, 2008)

Spoon,

Diluting the gold solution can sometimes precipitate metal compounds that are soluble in concentrated acids, but only slightly soluble in more dilute aqueous solutions of acids. This is why I diluted the gold solution in my video.

Around the time when I had filmed the video, GSP had made a post that stated he had researched and found that silver chloride is least soluble in diluted solutions. Likewise compounds such as copper I chloride will behave similarly in dilute acid solutions. This is why I diluted the solution in the video.

Here's the post:

Diluting AR to Precipitate Silver Chloride

This entire thread contains lots of valuable insights.

Now days, I rarely dilute my solutions except through the normal rinsing processes while filtering.

Steve


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## Lou (Jun 22, 2008)

"I finally got my SMB in and percipitated the AuCl3. I started with a litle over a full quart and diluted it to 3 quarts using distilled water. "


This is too great a dilution in my opinion. 3L of water for only 50g of gold is a bit too much solution volume. I'm not saying you should have a syrup. It should still be fairly concentrated. Instead of 3L I would've tried 500 ml of HAuCl4 solution.


Lou


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## lazersteve (Jun 22, 2008)

Lou,

I hope you didn't misunderstand my statement. I wasn't disputing your post. I merely wanted to let the reader know why I used dilution as I did it when I was still learning. Now days I don't dilute any solution intentionally.

As I have mentioned many times before, some of the information in my videos was based upon methods that I now no longer use. It still amazes me to this day how people hang on every comment I made in the videos. Things which I saw as trivial comments when I was filming the early videos I now realize are critical and should have been better stated. In all my newest videos I try to refrain from making blanket statements about any process since now I realize that many people are hanging on my every word in the videos.

I'm really sorry if I have caused viewers/readers any undo confusion.

Steve


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## thereisnospoon (Jun 22, 2008)

Lou and Steve,

Thanks to both for the insights, as I now know I can reduce the volume. This means less waste to deal with (as Lou pointed out earlier) and easier handling the smaller volume.

Steve, I did hang on every word in your video(s) and maybe that is a newbie thing, but when you are learning something-especially when dealing with dangerous chemicals, I tend to listen carefully and proceed as instructed. However, to feel you somehow led us astray is not correct as I probably would have NEVER considered refining myself had I not found this site and your videos (a how to video is worth a thousand printed words!)

Again, I appreciate your insights and many thanks to all who guide us rookies along.

Any more thoughts on the "popping"? Less heat, more adgitation?


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## Harold_V (Jun 23, 2008)

thereisnospoon said:


> as I now know I can reduce the volume.


For the record, when I re-refined gold, I generally had anywhere from 16 to 18 troy ounces in less than a liter of solution. While it is quite dark in color, it is not particularly viscous-----it filters beautifully, even with a #5 Whatman, which was the filter of choice for re-refining. Bear in mind, the solution is quite pure, with no traces of tin. 

When precipitating from such concentrated solutions, the volume of solution is not great enough to deal with the liberated heat. Before precipitating (with SO2 from a cylinder), I added enough ice to yield a total of almost 4 liters of solution. When the gold was down, the iced solution was often too hot to handle. 

Hoke recommends a concentration of no greater than 3 ounces per liter, as I recall. That is likely for temperature control. 

Harold

edit: corrected spelling


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## The Refiner49er (Jun 23, 2008)

Hey thereisnospoon-

I just wanted to share some info on catastrophic events.

When I have values in the beaker, I always have a secondary containment of some type, to catch solutions and spills that can result from handling or breakage of vessels. No one can afford to see grams or ounces of values running unchecked from a mishap, and soaking into porous surrounding floors/tabletops.

The values in one of Harolds batches today would be worth around $15,000- in a liter of concentrated solution, the value would be $15 per ml.  The true definition of "Good to the last drop". Hey, Harold- pour me a tall cool one of that stuff!  

In any case a secondary container is smart, minimizes losses and makes cleanup alot easier. Accidents are bound to happen sooner or later...


John
AKA- The Refiner49er


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