# Pamp Swiss gold bullion on eBay



## Artful (Dec 8, 2012)

Have been watching this auction on eBay and intrigued why someone
Would sell Bullion on eBay and if its fake, which it seems like it would be
My question is how they get away with it.

Of course I have no intention of bidding but just curious what other board members 
Think of this.

Mark

1 kilo pamp swiss gold bullion bar scrap gold.

http://bit.ly/QQ8Yxx


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## goldsilverpro (Dec 8, 2012)

Artful said:


> Have been watching this auction on eBay and intrigued why someone
> Would sell Bullion on eBay and if its fake, which it seems like it would be
> My question is how they get away with it.
> 
> ...


People are sure afraid of it. There are 34 bids and it's only up to $181/oz, a little over 10% of spot.


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## Palladium (Dec 8, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> Artful said:
> 
> 
> > Have been watching this auction on eBay and intrigued why someone
> ...



:?:


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## patnor1011 (Dec 8, 2012)

One sold for 25,000£ when spot is 34,000£. It cant be real that is for sure. Sold for like 73% of spot.


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## goldsilverpro (Dec 8, 2012)

patnor1011 said:


> One sold for 25,000£ when spot is 34,000£. It cant be real that is for sure. Sold for like 73% of spot.


I agree, Pat. That's 100% absolute proof that it's phony. With 32.15 oz of 24K gold at a spot price of $1704, you know exactly what you have. If it's real, there's no doubt about its value and anyone could sell it all day long for 99% and probably more. Only a crook would sell an obvious $54,000 worth of real gold for $40,000. This one should be reported, but who to? EBay never does anything about this stuff. They make a lot of money from the crooks on their site and they know it.


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## patnor1011 (Dec 8, 2012)

Even color looked odd and with purchases like this I would absolutely insist on escrow at least or pay when collecting (public location and prior testing is a must).


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## goldsilverpro (Dec 8, 2012)

They did look funky. Two more on the way. One's at 8,800 and the other is at 3,300.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/richard5555warrior/m.html?item=221163487409&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


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## Artful (Dec 9, 2012)

Well it sold for £25k so either someone just got the deal of a lifetime or was robbed blind!

I do wonder why someone who has 5 24k gold bullion bars is using eBay to sell them. ;-) 

Maybe I'm too cynical


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## Artful (Dec 9, 2012)

Looking at the payment terms, apparently PayPal is the chosen method and it will be shipped by Royal Mail
So does that mean its not possible to check the gold before paying? 

Amazing.. What a bargain! 

Does anyone want to buy my magic beans??


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## patnor1011 (Dec 9, 2012)

According to this: 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/csc/richard5555warrior/m.html?LH_Complete=1&_ipg=25&_since=15&_sop=13&_rdc=1

He sold 3 of them already. I somehow refuse to think that I am missing on lifetime opportunity by not bidding on this.


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## patnor1011 (Dec 9, 2012)

Who knows, then again if I would want to pull a scam then I would complete auction on 2-3 similar items with a "friend" winning first 2 and getting sort of credibility and then get a sucker and make a killing on last one.
But... I would say that authorities may catch you fast, too much of a footprint we leave on net with any activity we perform on internet.


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## Buzz (Dec 9, 2012)

> One sold for 25,000£ when spot is 34,000£. It cant be real that is for sure. Sold for like 73% of spot.



Not even 73% of spot Pat.

He's got 12.5% ebay/paypal fees to pay too!


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## Buzz (Dec 9, 2012)

Also check out his last 3 positive feedback comments! 
I used google translate to read the German ones.
Enough said!

Just goes to prove what a ridiculous idea it is for ebay to stop sellers leaving negative feedback.


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## Artful (Dec 9, 2012)

Buzz said:


> Also check out his last 3 positive feedback comments!
> I used google translate to read the German ones.
> Enough said!
> 
> Just goes to prove what a ridiculous idea it is for ebay to stop sellers leaving negative feedback.



I didn't realise that Sellers can't leave negative feedback! Seems very weird

hope nobody falls for it :-( I can't believe that they haven't tried a bit harder to make the scam more believable though


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## Rodger Hamilton (Dec 18, 2012)

It never ceases to confuse me... why a seller would want to leave negative feedback for a buyer?
OK, the devil's advocate... buyer is dishonest and there is the need to warn others.

We all know what was happening before eBay changed the rule, dishonest sellers would leave “revenge feedback” for the honest buyer who rightfully left the negative feedback. That resulted in buyers less likely to leave appropriate negative feedback for dishonest sellers, so they get away with their wrongdoings.

The best way for sellers to garner the confidence of buyers is to give then the free choice of leaving appropriate feedback without fear of reprisal.

I think eBay did what was in the best interest of the buyers... because we all know “buyer confidence” is MOST IMPORTANT in ANY marketplace.


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## patnor1011 (Dec 18, 2012)

Rodger Hamilton said:


> It never ceases to confuse me... why a seller would want to leave negative feedback for a buyer?
> OK, the devil's advocate... buyer is dishonest and there is the need to warn others.
> 
> We all know what was happening before eBay changed the rule, dishonest sellers would leave “revenge feedback” for the honest buyer who rightfully left the negative feedback. That resulted in buyers less likely to leave appropriate negative feedback for dishonest sellers, so they get away with their wrongdoings.



I do not agree with this quote. For every dishonest seller there are 100 of scam buyers who will try to get item free or cheaper threatening with negative feedback. 



Rodger Hamilton said:


> The best way for sellers to garner the confidence of buyers is to give then the free choice of leaving appropriate feedback without fear of reprisal.



No, no, no - if you change rules to favor only one side it is not fair. Where is sellers confidence to leave appropriate feedback when confronted by feedback extortionist or dispute chancer?



Rodger Hamilton said:


> I think eBay did what was in the best interest of the buyers... because we all know “buyer confidence” is MOST IMPORTANT in ANY marketplace.



Not buyer confidence. The most important is that buyer and seller come to an agreement.


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## Rodger Hamilton (Dec 18, 2012)

Your first comment:
Not a problem...you don't have to agree with it, but think about this... 

The proportion of honest sellers to dishonest ones, is perhaps about the same as honest sellers to dishonest ones. Of course we will never know the true ratio of each group, but both are from the same human population, so for now the above can be regarded as true.
With that said, you are unnecessarily scaring yourself when you only look at it one-sided and believing “For every dishonest seller there are 100 of scam buyers...”
Sure there are dishonest buyers, I will not deny that, but allowing sellers to leave bad feedback is counterproductive because as occurred in the past, it's open to abuse by sellers. In a successful market, you don't want anyone to think that sellers are able to abuse the feedback system.
As a side note: Removing their ability to leave bad feedback, doesn't change dishonest sellers into honest ones, it only gives perception in the buyers mind that their concerns are important...that is what is important to eBay.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your second comment:
There is a difference between Justice and Revenge, What you are referring to is “revenge”... an eye for an eye, this doesn't work in a feedback system that is supposed to be non-confrontational.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your third comment:
You don't understand... if there is no buyer confidence... there will be NO agreement and NO transaction... period. Nothing will be FREELY bought or sold without buyer confidence.

Ask yourself the question, if you have no confidence in the seller, would you buy anything from them?

When you hear the CEO of a company is arrested, the stock price immediately goes down...why... because no one wants to buy the stock because they lost “confidence” of the future Stability and Integrity of the company.

Why do you think there is so much value in “fiat money” (perhaps more than gold) even though it's worthless PAPER... the answer is CONFIDENCE... without confidence there is no “free” market.


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## patnor1011 (Dec 18, 2012)

I just wanted to point out that while you are firmly standing on one side, all your arguments can be easily used by other side.
Non-Confrontational? Why leave powerful tool to use by one side and exclude other?
Buyer confidence? If you are selling and do not have confidence in your buyer will you be selling?


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## Rodger Hamilton (Dec 18, 2012)

patnor1011 said:


> I just wanted to point out that while you are firmly standing on one side, all your arguments can be easily used by other side.
> Non-Confrontational? Why leave powerful tool to use by one side and exclude other?
> Buyer confidence? If you are selling and do not have confidence in your buyer will you be selling?



>>>>>>>>>>>>
No Patnor, this is not about taking sides... It is about recognizing that there is a natural imbalance...
Buyers as a group, will always have the upper hand, because what it comes down to is:
ALL buyers have something that ALL sellers want... money. But sellers can never have everything the all buyers want... Do you see the imbalance?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sellers have sold goods to... and profited from, dishonest buyers since humans began trading in ancient times, so long as the seller gets his money on time, the deal is considered successful.

On the other hand, once the buyer pays his money, the quality, timing, quantity and presentation of the goods all play a part in the judgment of the seller's honesty and integrity. With so many things against the seller, he cannot afford to be “impolite”... unless of course, he is lucky to be the only seller of an item that everyone desperately needs.

Edit:
Yes, there are thieves who will do anything to get the better of the sellers goods, but there are enough honest buyers out there that it is still profitable for sellers to do business with all buyers regardless of the risks.


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## qst42know (Dec 18, 2012)

Those look like fancy pin drops! :mrgreen: 

Who ever the seller is they sure have plenty.


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## Palladium (Dec 18, 2012)

Sounds like a discussion about government and how the feed back system works. Or doesn't!


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## g_axelsson (Jun 10, 2013)

allisadube said:


> one must be very cautious when dealing with such websites as the number of scammers is not less too. http://www.bullytradingllc.com is one very reputed site to deal with in this regard.


Why do I get a feeling that this post is only made to promote that site?
Allisadube, what is your connection to that site?

Göran


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## lazersteve (Jun 10, 2013)

I removed the post. It was obviously made to promote the link and not to add to the topic.

Steve


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## jimdoc (Jun 10, 2013)

Göran's post needs the link removed from the quote also.

Jim


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## squarecoinman (Jun 10, 2013)

jimdoc said:


> Göran's post needs the link removed from the quote also.
> 
> Jim



try the link 

scm


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## jimdoc (Jun 10, 2013)

squarecoinman said:


> jimdoc said:
> 
> 
> > Göran's post needs the link removed from the quote also.
> ...




I see! 
I try to not click any spam links.

Jim


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## chlaurite (Jun 10, 2013)

For the "why" - The US government has a somewhat perverse take on the taxes due on precious metals sales. Basically unless you have a verifiable receipt for the purchase of gold to prove your basis cost, you pay capital gains on the entire sale value. And while *we* might consider the purchase of motherboards and chemicals (not to mention your time) a legitimate expense - Unless you work as a professional recycler, good luck claiming those if you get audited.

So depending on how the seller obtained it, 75% of spot might well count as a great deal.

That said... http://www.maxkeiser.com/2012/09/tungsten-filled-10oz-pamp-suisse-gold-bar-discovered-manhattan/ I wouldn't touch these for more than the "novelty $100 bill" value, without an enforceable guarantee of authenticity.


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