# old thick circut boards



## jimmyreece (Feb 23, 2011)

what is the best process recomended for recovering gold from these boards and would it be efficent enough to get at the several layers of the gold foil in these boards with out having to break all of them up?


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## pinman (Feb 23, 2011)

Is there supposed to be a picture?


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## jimmyreece (Feb 24, 2011)

no i didnt take a picture, but with or with out a picture,does anyone have an opinion on the most efficant method used to recover gold from the gold foil in older circut boards....even circut boards in genral (concerning the gold foil within)


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## pinman (Feb 24, 2011)

Use the search function and read read read.


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## patnor1011 (Feb 24, 2011)

jimmyreece said:


> no i didnt take a picture, but with or with out a picture,does anyone have an opinion on the most efficant method used to recover gold from the gold foil in older circut boards....even circut boards in genral (concerning the gold foil within)



In my opinion it cant be done with profit in home or shed. That is why there are big refiners in place as process require huge investments in equipment. You can recover gold which is visible, sometimes with success but it depend on type of board. They have to be "prepared" - depopulated as much as possible, solder removed.
Too much work for average joe like me to accomplish and gain profit.

The only method is to hoard huge amounts and send them for refining to one of those places. You will get paid for copper too which is over 80% of actual metal content and over 50% of actuall weight of boards.


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## FrugalEE (Feb 24, 2011)

jimmyreece, 

"concerning the gold foil within"

You must be talking about muti-layer boards. Why would anyone use precious metal on inner layer runs where they are protected from corrosion with layers of plastic? The main reason for using gold is when mechanical connections are made as in plugs and sockets. Inner layer circuitry that requires a plug or socket connection would be brought to an outer layer with a plated through hole. There should be nothing inside that board other than copper and plastic. Torch a small piece OUTSIDE and prove it to yourself.

FrugalEE


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## jimmyreece (Feb 24, 2011)

i have read them pinman. and thanks for your knowledgable and very unhelpful input once again. it doesnt hurt to get to advice,different opinons and shared experince from different people does it? i mean thats why i joined is to learn from the ones who know and maybe somone will discover a new or different way thatmight be effective. thats why i ask.


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## jimmyreece (Feb 24, 2011)

thanks patnor1011, you given me some real information that i can use and learn from.....


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## jimmyreece (Feb 24, 2011)

why then is gold used on the outside of newer boards that are not sockets or connectors and have a protective film over it? its protected from corrosion, they could of used copper instead but they used gold. just like i have in these boards , four layers of gold plated copper film. but only plated on one side of each of the layers


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## pinman (Feb 24, 2011)

No need to get snippy. Had you used he search function like I suggested you would have discovered this has been covered multiple times. Yet another silver spoon.


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## FrugalEE (Feb 24, 2011)

Those boards must have been designed for a very harsh environment high humidity and possibly salt spray. Solder resist alone doesn't completely seal under high temp combined with high humidity, hence the use of gold especially on top layer. You apparently have had access to some of the design specs. Do you also know the plating thickness? It's probably pretty thin making it easy to accept what Patnor advised. 

PWBs are laminated at high temperatures and I suppose one could use an oven and try to pry the layers apart, but you would have plastic left on the gold surface making it such that acid can't get to the copper substrate and free the gold foils. You would have to use some form of incineration. I've had some experience taking teflon laminated boards apart to find what failed. The sheet adhesive in that case melted at about 400 degrees. 

FrugalEE


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## Oz (Feb 25, 2011)

FrugalEE said:


> The sheet adhesive in that case melted at about 400 degrees.


Fahrenheit or Centigrade


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## FrugalEE (Feb 25, 2011)

Sorry, It was 400 degrees Fahrenheit. I just did a bit of checking on more normal boards. FR-4, a glass epoxy laminate that is fire resistant is a very common board used. I found one reference that they are laminated at 375 degrees F at pressure of 275 to 400 PSI.


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## jimmyreece (Feb 25, 2011)

thanks frugaLEE and sorry bout that pinman


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## pinman (Feb 25, 2011)

No worries.


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## dtectr (Feb 25, 2011)

You should take your boards directly to the bank & get a loan on them for exactly what you think they're worth!


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## Drewbie (Feb 26, 2011)

I'm not sure melting teflon is a good idea.


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## jimmyreece (Feb 26, 2011)

what i think they are worth? you need to stop breathing them chemicals,or learn how to read.i never said they were worth anything


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## patnor1011 (Feb 26, 2011)

I remember at least 3-4 discussions concerning gold plating inside boarts or multi layer boards. Few memebers try hard to get that gold to no avail. Too labor and chemicals intensive - conclusion was that it is not worth. You can find a lot more if you use search function on lasersteve signature line.
Here is one thread I found in a hurry:
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=6779&hilit=gold+inside+board

You can try to go after that gold. For everyones sake do as much pictures and notes as possible and feel free to share with readers. Maybe you can find some process or technique Which can be acceptable when we think porfit/wise. Sorry for my english but hope everyone understand what I mean.


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## gold4mike (Mar 1, 2011)

Patnor - your english is fine - better than many of us for whom it is our native language. 

jimmyreece - Nearly every one of us on the board who process escrap "cherry pick" the easy stuff and sell the boards to someone who is equipped to handle them efficiently and safely. Incinerating is probably the best way to process them but you need to be equipped to do it in a way that doesn't damage the environment or you, and doesn't draw the attention of government agencies. A proper incinerator with afterburner and/or scrubbing capabilities is beyond the means of most of us backyard refiners. 

If you put 20 to 30 pounds of boards on eBay you'll find several people will message you and ask if you have quantities available. In no time you'll have a way to turn those boards into cash that you can use to buy material that's easier to process. I use the money to buy more silver and gold outright. It also provides money for more glassware and chemicals.

After a few months or years of processing the easy stuff and gaining experience you may have the skills needed to process the more difficult scrap. I personally decided long ago to "take the money and run". 

FWIW


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## jimmyreece (Mar 18, 2011)

thanks mike, thats good advice. but im a block head at times and even though i believe that what your saying is true, i have to give some sort of small test trial maybe a different method. nothing large just enough so i can pass the the same advice some day having attempted it myself.
so i have a buddy who has this heavy duty mulching machine. im gonna desolder 10 boards, peel them apart down the middle once, soak them in lye to get rid of the solder mask and in the mulcher they go.from there its in a well aggitated AP bath for a week........ and if i end up with enough gold to recrown my front tooth not only will i feel ridiculess i'l look it too


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## butcher (Mar 20, 2011)

Jimmy, it could work, but you would use a lot of acid on base metals, have much waste to deal with, and recovered values will be mixed with some troublesome base metals making separation a task or challenge.

incineration, may become an important step in your process, after your De-soldering process, you will still have solder (caustic soda will help some). 
lead chloride thank goodness is slightly soluble in very hot water.

mulched circuit boards then to HCl / peroxide, sounds troublesome to me, yes you would dissolve most of copper into solution that could be decanted, leaving some values in the mass of powdered ground up fiberglass and resin, after that what? incineration could help, oxidize further the troublesome base metal (maybe to help filtering later), before going after the gold or values.

but I would think it more beneficial in earlier steps of the process, now you will need an furnace with an after burner, with out it you risk harming yourself and others, if you had an furnace with an afterburner then I again would rethink the whole process (smelting and sell to copper refiner who pays for values)
my thoughts go towards how much gold would I need to recover to pay for my hospital bills and environmental fine's or how much gold would I need to refine to pay for the proper equipment, to safely recover this material, or would it be better to sell this material to the big scrap refiner, and buy me some karat gold, that I can refine and that will have some return for invested time money and chemicals and I will walk away with Au in my pocket in a clean environment with healthy neighbors. 

Just some things to think about.


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## jimmyreece (Mar 24, 2011)

your right, much more problem then its worth.i think il save myself a headache and stick to the task at hand. and thats trying to find out what metal keeps cementing copper on to my gold plated jewelry i have in an AP bath. twice now ive come back to find several pounds of it cemented with copper. im suspecting magnesium


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## dtectr (Mar 24, 2011)

jimmyreece said:


> your right, much more problem then its worth.i think il save myself a headache and stick to the task at hand. and thats trying to find out what metal keeps cementing copper on to my gold plated jewelry i have in an AP bath. twice now ive come back to find several pounds of it cemented with copper. im suspecting magnesium


jimmyreece,
I've followed this thread as patiently as I could, but, even Job had a limit.

You've switched from boards, since you didn't seem to hear what you wanted, to plated jewelry, & you still haven't heard what you've wanted, it seems. 

There are many teachable, hard-working, studious individuals who follow these threads hoping to find an answer to their less-than-favorable situations, or at the very least, to learn something new. You've been given great advice from some very respected members of this community, yet you decide to to be "block-headed", which, considering the chemicals we're discussing could also mean "hospitalized" or "dead".

Are your "suspicions" based on any kind of fact or research? Where in the hell would magnesium come from in plated jewelry? Everyone has tried to be very nice & tactful, but clearly, it hasn't helped.

So, here's the deal - 

Gold-plated jewelry is usually copper plated then flash-plated with nickel to make the VERY thin layer of gold stick; or else, sometimes, even nickel, flash-plated with copper (don't ask me why), followed with the very same VERY THIN layer of gold. No magnesium. You have been given good advice on how to proceed - if you don't want advice, don't ask for it. If you do, then listen to the voices of experience.

Here it is, VERY plain & simple :

Unless you have a exceptionally sophisticated refinery at your disposal, don't try to process whole boards! Is that hard to understand? 

Some of our members are from other corners of the globe, and therefore, English isn't their first langauge. We are patient, as they are with us, (sometimes we speak "Amer-English", instead of English); and, because they usually have experience to share from THEIR mother language, it all evens out. 

I don't know how anyone could be more clear - so, I'm DONE with this thread!

EDIT: Clearly, I'm not done - every time gold spikes we have a new crop of gold gurus who don't want to hear anything contrary to what they've already "figured out". Its up to you to decide where you land.

NOW I'm done. (Really)


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## jimmyreece (Mar 24, 2011)

i apologize for offending you or anyone eles with this thread. that clearly isnt my intentions here. i appreciate all the advice that is given me and everyone eles on this forum and i respect each and every member and nothing is taken for granted. i put a suggestion out there in hopes of getting a reply from someone who is well versed in this field. 
i dont know why you had such a problem with my reply. maybe i read it wrong but from what i understood he felt that if i was to attempt any recovery with these boards the better approach would be through incinteration including the use of an after burner which im not doubting at all is the better way to do this if i was to attemp it. but i live in rocklin california, i can spit in my neighbors backyard from my kitchen window,i dont have the proper means to process these boards in the more efficiant way which i was advised. so to deal with these boards at this present time isnt practical for me. maybe i used the wrong words by saying "it wasnt worth the headache" but in no way what so ever was any disrespect was meant nor was i in any way at all ungratful for his advice.
you given me much helpful advice too in which im gratful for also. and this is the second time in this thread you came at me side ways. and il be a son a ----- if im scrutinized or portrayed as the person your making me out to be.i may be ignorant to much of this new hobby ive taken on. but im not stupid.
i never said that WAS magnesium that was causing the cementation on the metals in solution. i put that out there as a suggestion in hopes it can be explained to me by someone who might just have the answer. and the only reason i suggested that is because magnesium is a metal that im familair with. many tools i use in my trade (concrete) are magnesium. in one of my two active AP baths i found a chain that had all the similairities as magnesium that was that was fizzing in the bottom of my solution and causing the cementation im speaking of. but i havnt tested it yet. i plan on scrapping some small pieces off one of my tools and dropping it in a little AP and see what happens.
but what ever your issue was or is can be better resolved with better communication .....with me.since your problem seems to be with me.
i run 25 guys in a trade that seperates the men from the boys. and i have the best concrete crew in northern california.....i taught each and every one of them everything i know and thought i knew about this trade, and you know what ? every now and then they teach me a few things ....in the trade that i taught them. my point is learning anything is a never ending learning experience and i do recognize that.
i appreciate and respect knowledge.even more if its shared, i never take it for granted. so please do me one thing. next time you want to speak on me like you did, speak to me first


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## jimmyreece (Mar 24, 2011)

hey butcher. i apologize for giving you such a quick and simplified answer to your post. i just didnt have much time to elaberate on it more than i did at the time.
you are totaly right in every thing said. and being as health and safety are the most important task of all task to achieve with the utmost priority, there just wasnt anyway i could have attempted these boards in the safe and intelligent manner you had suggested. not at this time anyway. but i will save them for when i do.
thanks butcher


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## jimmyreece (Mar 24, 2011)

and job didnt have any limits to his faith and loyalty to god. thats what seperates him from the rest of us


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## patnor1011 (Mar 25, 2011)

Who told you to use AP on karat or plated jewelry? It is as suitable as cutting cardboard boxes with nail clippers. Only if you want to spend buckets of solution and wait for months you are ok with AP. This particular process is good if you want to get gold plating from copper based items where copper is in very thin layer. Say (this is only guess) that fingers have one part of gold to 50 parts of copper in thickness and plated jewelry might be one part of gold to thousands of copper and who knows what else.


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## jimmyreece (Mar 25, 2011)

well its not that anyone told me. and true i havent found anywhere on the search function thats shows anyone is doing it. its just that when i was looking at this old gold plated jewelry i have i noticed the difference between todays jewelery and what they had then. so i put a couple pieces in AP just to experiment. the next day it was all strpped with foils seperated from the copper items.....so i continued. thats when i ran into this other problem


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## jimmyreece (Mar 25, 2011)

i know all of it isnt copper based metals. to much time on my hands with all this rain.and its not that i turned into a incompetant gold guru over night.i live at the base of the sierra mountains where the gold rush of 1849 began. so gold has always been my past time hobby. but this is a whole different approach to it, its caught my interest and im learning plus i have much to work with....a couple hundred pounds
its clear AP wasnt the practical way to go , not with all of it anyway, im considering trying a cell. that just might be the best way to go about it and safest since my kids and pets are my biggest concern i wanted to stay away from using any nitric based solutions i felt AP or even the iodine was the lesser of evils, but im not having any luck with either of them


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## butcher (Mar 25, 2011)

jimmy, 
Hang in there there is a learning curve and keep your head up its just around the bend, start with fingers, cpu's or pins, learn one process at time, do not rush, electronic scrap has a little gold but not much, and is alot of trouble,can create alot of waste to deal with, set your sights on higher quality scrap like karat jewelery or placer gold, you are in a good area for that. The electronic stuff can have value if you can get it in quatity for about free, but small amounts of it or plated junk, is hard to break even, more so when you are starting out.


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## jimmyreece (Mar 29, 2011)

hey butcher, thanks for the encouragment. truth is we can read and read even have the step by step methods printed in our memory banks, but one never realy knows if they can suceed untill the attemp is made. 
with all the varables in this field and all those little things that can happen (and they do) in between the steps that are instructed, makes for a long learning curve for somone learning on there own like myself
im glad to have found this forum and being able to communicate with guys like your self has been much appreciated and very helpful. thanks again


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## butcher (Apr 1, 2011)

When learning to walk we first must learn to stand, and forget about running for now.

Hokes book do the getting acquainted experiments, is a great place to start, forget about getting gold, that fever will only blind you for now, learn to stand, follow Laser Steve’s processes, something simple like fingers, he has done fantastic work to help someone learn the technique, try dissolving some silver in nitric acid cement on copper then melt washed powders, forget about trying to run and before you know it you will be walking.


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## jimmyreece (Apr 5, 2011)

sound advice. i think im going to do just what you said and go back and study,read and watch more video. this learn as you go is pretty foolish considering what were working with.
but what i did learn is there is no short cuts. and that is set in stone with me.
i just have a lot of questions.and i like to know why something works or why somthings wont. 
seems like the more questions i ask the more people i upset. 
think im going to stay quiet and study some more for a while


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## Barren Realms 007 (Apr 5, 2011)

jimmyreece said:


> sound advice. i think im going to do just what you said and go back and study,read and watch more video. this learn as you go is pretty foolish considering what were working with.
> but what i did learn is there is no short cuts. and that is set in stone with me.
> i just have a lot of questions.and i like to know why something works or why somthings wont.
> seems like the more questions i ask the more people i upset.
> think im going to stay quiet and study some more for a while



As you process more material in small batches your questions will get answered and it should get a lot easier for you. Then it should all come together for you and you will recognize your problems you are having to ask questions on.


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