# need help staring with AR, on quartz, hi grade ore



## cory123 (May 30, 2011)

sorry about double posting..

im attempting my first melt with quartzite gold, im comfortable with everything but i am not sure about inquarting, ive had the surface tested at both 10 and 14 k, and there doesnt seem to be any base metals on the quartz(besides silver with the gold??), but i have other samples that are very dense and less shiny, with colours that look like they represent gold, copper,silver nickel and pd,pt ). im thinking of making this an experiment and i will try 2 different methods(unless i can get right answer), one with nitric acid pre dissolve before A R, and the other to go straight through A R(with both types of rocks,).... will i have to inquart any silver into the nitric melt for the quartz rocks containing just the 10-14 k gold, what about the rocks containing many base metals? or could i just use nitric alone before A R?.., and what if i just put the quartz gold, or the many base metal rocks right through the AR, will the gold be contained because of all the silver chloride or any other complictions?, all the gold karat rating falls within 8-14 . i have tried to read lots about inquarting gold, but it is still blurry to me, please any advice would be awesome






,



,

-here is 2 pcs of hi grade ore




,

here is the other type of rocks that i have, you cant see it because of reflections but it has a bronze tinge, to a silver one in some places.


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## Militoy (May 30, 2011)

Beautiful stuff - absolutely fabulous if it is gold. Your description of "quartzite" in the other post threw me: quartzite is a metamorphic rock which originated from sandstone. Quartzite has a completely different appearance from your gold in quartz matrix.

I have seen gold that fractured in the platy fashion your ore does - but I've also seen various iron sulfide minerals that have a similar appearance. If you have access to the lode your material came from, I would bring samples to a professional assayer as soon as possible. If you only have a few high-grade samples, they are likely to be worth much more as collectible ore samples then they are for their gold content.


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## Richard36 (May 30, 2011)

Hello Cory,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that Ore looks like Copper rich Iron Pyrite.
That doesn't mean that it doesn't contain gold, just that it isn't native element, 
and therefore complex to process in order to recover any precious metals that it may contain.

If you apply pressure to the surface, and try to cut a groove, and it crumbles, 
rather than leave an indentation without fragmenting, then it is a sulfide mineral, and not native gold.

Test those samples.
Nice photo's at any rate.

Sincerely, Rick. "The Rock Man".


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## Anonymous (May 30, 2011)

I'm not so sure about that first pic Rick.I've seen tons of fools gold in my time,but that first pic has me quite open-eyed.The rest I think you are dead on about,but look a little more at that first pic,and make sure.I'll agree it looks"fragmented" but boy it sure looks aweful close.


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## Richard36 (May 30, 2011)

Well, if it is gold, then it's no big deal to test that theory by dissolving a fragment in some AR, 
and Testing it with some Stanous Chloride.

For that matter, if it is a sulfide mineral, it should boil quite vigorously in Nitric Acid.
Native Gold won't.


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## cory123 (May 30, 2011)

thx for replys militoy, rich and mic, yeah im a lil weary about what is real and what is fake, i feel completely conf about the top 2, and pretty sure about the twins being partial gold, but that bottom one is one slut mut of a rock , this one was taken from a mine deep within hardrock, and i was told that when it was taken out, it is excavated into a round bar under extreme pressure, thus any type of gold loses its maleabilty,( the gold was apparently called `colective flake gold`) by the miner, saying its less dense and concentrated than the naturally smoothed gold. but yeah, im a complete amateur so i`ve practically based all my faqs on word of mouth and my own theorys lol., 
i am planning to start this project in 3 days, lol weel see how i do, either way even if i fail i could care less cause im walking into this with no expectations lol.


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## Richard36 (May 30, 2011)

Keep us posted with photo's of what you find.
You're at least finding material worth further investigation.


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## eeTHr (May 31, 2011)

cory---

If that were gold, it would be worth much more as-is, because it's called specimen pieces. All of the pictures.

But, none of them appear to me to be solid gold. (What Rock Man said.)

It is what it is. But they may still have some specimen value. A rock shop might buy them.


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## Harold_V (May 31, 2011)

If the pictures are representative of the color and texture, my money says they're not gold. No way in hell....

Please advise me if I'm wrong, so I can offer an apology.

It would be brain dead easy to test---does it scratch, or does it crumble?

Harold


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## Palladium (May 31, 2011)

cory123 said:


> here is the other type of rocks that i have, you cant see it because of reflections but it has a bronze tinge, to a silver one in some places.



I would go with pyrite. Just my guess.


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## geonorts (May 31, 2011)

Sorry Cory but i think the guys are right I see no gold, they may very well be gold ore but there not native gold. Like the others said try scratch them if they crumble then its a sulphide, most likely chalcopyrite, the last one looks like an intergrowh of chalcopyrite and either pyrrhotite, pyrite or cubanite. assay will tell you how much gold they contain most likely anything from 0 to 30+ grams per Ton (ppm) but the gold will be small microscopic inclusions of or gold tellurides


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## cory123 (May 31, 2011)

so no advice on if inquarting is required,, if yous dont hear from me, it means i`ve wasted time, money and a weekend. l0l, still tho, its worth trying, i bet yous would try it. ive already got peices tested,(similiar to the twins),and they were positive. i refuse to beleive(even if im wrong)that most of these gold coloured rocks that come deep within a mine are ALL pyrite.. but yeah even if they were all real gold i dont think id get a good return because im so confused about this inquarting procedure, and how necessary it really is. do any of yous think its safe just to do a nitric melt first, even with no inquartation, then proceed to AR. or should i just go striaght to AR


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## Reno Chris (May 31, 2011)

I've got a lot of experience with ores - even college level classes - and I've got to agree with the majority. All of these specimens are pyrite, not gold.

In the second photo down from the top, on the left side of the specimen, there is some dark indigo blue material - that is a copper sulfide known as covellite.

I've included two photos of actual gold in quartz, showing the very different texture normally assumed by gold in quartz. 

Chris


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## goldsilverpro (May 31, 2011)

Pyrite - now you know why they call it FOOL'S gold.


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## darshevo (May 31, 2011)

First time I found a piece of pyrite that large in quartz my heart skipped a beat.

Great specimens though Cory, thank you for putting the pics up

You too Reno, that is a super nice piece

-Lance


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## eeTHr (May 31, 2011)

cory123 said:


> so no advice on if inquarting is required,, if yous dont hear from me, it means i`ve wasted time, money and a weekend. l0l, still tho, its worth trying, i bet yous would try it. ive already got peices tested,(similiar to the twins),and they were positive. i refuse to beleive(even if im wrong)that most of these gold coloured rocks that come deep within a mine are ALL pyrite.. but yeah even if they were all real gold i dont think id get a good return because im so confused about this inquarting procedure, and how necessary it really is. do any of yous think its safe just to do a nitric melt first, even with no inquartation, then proceed to AR. or should i just go striaght to AR



It appears that you have totally ignored the simple tests that anyone should perform on specimens such as those in your pictures, because you are determined to go straight to inquarting or AR.

Also, you have ignored the fact that if they were gold, you would only be reducing their value by dissolving them.

I'm thinking you didn't even read most of the replies, all from people trying to help you, much less try to follow their instructions, given with the intent of saving you time and money.

Now I'm wondering why you even asked for help.

:?:


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## cory123 (May 31, 2011)

goldsilverpro said:


> Pyrite - now you know why they call it FOOL'S gold.


yeah i dont think im a fool buddy, maybe an amateur. but thx for the help


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## cory123 (May 31, 2011)

eeTHr said:


> cory123 said:
> 
> 
> > so no advice on if inquarting is required,, if yous dont hear from me, it means i`ve wasted time, money and a weekend. l0l, still tho, its worth trying, i bet yous would try it. ive already got peices tested,(similiar to the twins),and they were positive. i refuse to beleive(even if im wrong)that most of these gold coloured rocks that come deep within a mine are ALL pyrite.. but yeah even if they were all real gold i dont think id get a good return because im so confused about this inquarting procedure, and how necessary it really is. do any of yous think its safe just to do a nitric melt first, even with no inquartation, then proceed to AR. or should i just go striaght to AR
> ...


It appears that you have totally ignored the simple tests that anyone should perform on specimens such as those in your pictures, because you are determined to go straight to inquarting or AR.

--what simple tests, i read everything, i got no instructions on how to process before inquarting, guess i did tottally ignore it?...

Also, you have ignored the fact that if they were gold, you would only be reducing their value by dissolving them.

--why would taking gold out of rock and purifying it reduce its value, no one around here will buy these!!???

I'm thinking you didn't even read most of the replies, all from people trying to help you..

--k , now thats just ignorant, i dont think i like it here


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## Palladium (May 31, 2011)

Well not to be smart about this but since you’re an amateur the man who you just called buddy has only about 40 years experience dealing with every type of gold product recovered or produced by scientific means in the last 40 years.

Just an observation of course. 8)


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## cory123 (May 31, 2011)

just have to add that i hate when i do something and someone obliviously tells me i didnt. that usually deserves a punch in the tooth


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## darshevo (May 31, 2011)

Gold specimens are often times worth more in nugget form or 'in matrix' to a collector than they would be 'by the ounce'. That would be the reasoning behind not destroying the specimen as is. My guess would be the reason you can't sell it locally is due to the fact that it's pyrite, and unfortunately even a nice example of pyrite has little value


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## Reno Chris (May 31, 2011)

Here is a quick and dirty test you can do - chip off a small fragment from the gold colored mineral. Put it on a hard surface like steel and hit it hard with a hammer. 
Gold, as a soft malleable metal, will mash out flat (that's basically the process they use to make gold leaf). 
Pyrite, as a brittle non-metal will shatter into a bunch of tiny bits. 

The guy above who commented about the value of gold specimens is correct. The slabs in the photo I posed above sell for more than their weight in pure gold even though they have considerable plain quartz in them. 

I know you don't want to hear its pyrite, but accepting reality is unavoidable.


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## goldsilverpro (May 31, 2011)

If you had a nickel for every time in history that an amateur has been "fooled" by pyrite = fool's gold, you would be a multi-millionaire, many times over. To the amateur, it looks like gold. To anyone that has dealt with a lot of gold, it looks nothing like gold. To see what gold looks like, look at Reno Chris' photos. They are obviously gold. Yours look nothing like his. Your samples SCREAM pyrite for anyone with even modest experience.

Who knows? Maybe everyone that's responded to this is full of crap, even if they do have a total of maybe 100-150 years of experience in dealing with this stuff. Maybe you're right. The only way to prove you're right is to spend good money to have it properly assayed. Until then, you're just farting in the wind. Lots of noise with no substance.


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## Militoy (May 31, 2011)

goldsilverpro said:


> ...Until then, you're just farting in the wind. Lots of noise with no substance.



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## sawmill (May 31, 2011)

I have mined gold ,sold gold,and some specimen pieces
from our claims are in museums. What you have is not
specimen gold,it is mostly pyrite.

Reno Chris is one heck of an expert,when it comes to
rocks and minerals. You can take his advice to the bank.
You have had expert advice ,from some very experienced
people,take it and say thank you.

AR and inquartation is a waste of time without other
processes on the type of ore you have. First you need
to determine if the ore has enough gold to fool with,
hence assay. Just because it came from deep in the
earth doesn't mean anything. My younger brother was
the mining superintendent for a large Colorado gold
mine. They were getting massive chunks of pyrite at
the 3000 foot level. Some pieces weighed several 
hundred pounds,some thousands of pounds.

The piece that you say came from a core drill, 
would have gold smeared all around the cutting
face,if it was gold. A diamond core would not make
a clean cut in solid gold. It will make a clean cut in
quartz or pyrite. No One called you a fool,fools gold
is a common term for pyrite.


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## Harold_V (Jun 1, 2011)

cory123 said:


> just have to add that i hate when i do something and someone obliviously tells me i didnt. that usually deserves a punch in the tooth


Let me explain something to you in plain English. 

I have a bad attitude towards any reader that refuses to listen to good advise, and goes head strong with what he/she wants to believe, right or wrong. Only a complete fool processes dirt with the hopes of finding gold, in particular after he has been advised by well meaning people (who have nothing to gain by sending erroneous information) that they are not on the right track. Pay attention to what you've been told, or pay for an assay.

You have been given advice that you can send to the bank. There's no fewer than a half dozen people on this forum that know more about gold and gold processing than you can hope to learn in your lifetime---many of whom have years of dealing with precious metals on a commercial basis. 

I take exception to your offer for a punch in the tooth. We don't work that way here, nor are we willing to tolerate you and your attitude in suggesting you would. I will tolerate no more smart remarks from you. If you can't discuss your project with manners, you won't be around long enough to ask any more questions. Clean up your act or you're gone. You can begin by asking for a retraction on the offer to punch anyone's tooth. 

Readers---ignore this guy until he has made amends to your satisfaction. 

Harold


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## eeTHr (Jun 1, 2011)

I would suggest that he also express some resolution to the following---




cory123 said:


> It appears that you have totally ignored the simple tests that anyone should perform on specimens such as those in your pictures, because you are determined to go straight to inquarting or AR.
> 
> --what simple tests, i read everything, i got no instructions on how to process before inquarting, guess i did tottally ignore it?...
> 
> ...




Seeing as it was preceded by---




Militoy said:


> ...bring samples to a professional assayer as soon as possible.





Richard36 said:


> If you apply pressure to the surface, and try to cut a groove, and it crumbles,
> rather than leave an indentation without fragmenting, then it is a sulfide mineral, and not native gold.
> 
> Test those samples.





Richard36 said:


> Well, if it is gold, then it's no big deal to test that theory by dissolving a fragment in some AR,
> and Testing it with some Stanous Chloride.
> 
> For that matter, if it is a sulfide mineral, it should boil quite vigorously in Nitric Acid.
> Native Gold won't.





Harold_V said:


> It would be brain dead easy to test---does it scratch, or does it crumble?
> 
> Harold





geonorts said:


> Like the others said try scratch them if they crumble then its a sulphide...assay will tell you how much gold they contain....



_And_ he missed the information about the value of specimen grade versus refined.

By _grossly_ ignoring good advice, he has caused unnecessary clamor and confusion on the board.

And worse---all this would suggest the inability to comprehend safety procedures, too.

Then he cops an attitude.... :lol:


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## cory123 (Jun 8, 2011)

Palladium said:


> Well not to be smart about this but since you’re an amateur the man who you just called buddy has only about 40 years experience dealing with every type of gold product recovered or produced by scientific means in the last 40 years.
> 
> Just an observation of course. 8)


when people call me a fool, i think im allowed to say whatever i want about them, just becaause they have experience doesnt make them better than me, what are you thinking?, if someone knows alot about science and continues to xxx me in the xxx, do i resist, or respect that he has vast amounts of knowledge and accept a homosexual fate. i guess thats how things go down on most forums, because im not allowed to say anythnig without being judged like a superficial xxxxx at xxxxxx xxxxxx loose xxxxxx party.. xxx this xxxx


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## cory123 (Jun 8, 2011)

for all those that now hate me, i have to rub it in, that all this gold ive shown you, was tested at a consistent 12 k. im sorry everyone, but every single peice here is real, and any who still believes that im a fools gold harboring idiot, is 100 percent wrong, i just returned form getting them tested, i drove 100 km to do so, a risk that turned out to be well worth any trouble. for everyone reading, i wish this could of been a friendly experience, betweeen questions and answers, but every time i go on a forum this happens. and when it happens i get defensive, XXXXXX off, and confused by peoples morals. so i lash out, i might be back to post some pics of precipitated gold, and the end results, till then...[/quote]

No, you won't be posting any pictures on this forum, for you won't have any gold to photograph. Your dirty mouth and lousy attitude just bought you a one way ticket off the forum, anyway. We have no need nor want of those that can't behave like adults. 

This individual was admonished to have an assay performed, not to have the gold "tested". He could have performed simple tests on his own that would have proven to his satisfaction that he had gold, or not. Considering he refused to do so, it's clear to me that he won't let go of what he wants to believe, in spite of any concrete evidence he might uncover. Finding a person to agree with what one hopes to hear lends nothing to one's claim. "I had it tested" means absolutely nothing. 

Harold


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## cory123 (Jun 8, 2011)

eeTHr said:


> I would suggest that he also express some resolution to the following---
> 
> 
> 
> ...



BUDDDY, i wasnt asking for advice on finding out if it was real, let it rest

Said another way, I'm not interested in the truth, I just want to believe what I want to believe, and I want all of you to be stupid like me and believe it, too. 

Well, pal, we don't work that way here. We are men of science, not witchcraft. We deal with facts, not hopes. 
You have a nice day with your pyrite. We're finished with you. 

Harold


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## cory123 (Jun 8, 2011)

so xxxxxxx off at this place, i can't even beleive the treatment i've recieved, just likes you can't beleive its gold.. HAHAHHA


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## jimdoc (Jun 9, 2011)

Bye!


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## Harold_V (Jun 9, 2011)

jimdoc said:


> Bye!


Oh, yeah! Big time. 

This individual is a classic example of someone that is not welcome here. He had every opportunity to provide concrete evidence that he had gold, but ignored everything he was advised to do, and single mindedly kept demanding he be instructed on inquarting, a process that is not related to extraction of gold from ores. He then ran his big mouth using vulgar terms that are not acceptable on this forum. If he chooses to behave like a moron, that's how he will be treated. He's gone. 

Harold


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## Militoy (Jun 9, 2011)

I kind of got the sense he was "swirling around the drain" the last 5-6 posts. I knew the post about a minor celebrity's private parts would pretty much pull the plug on his silly demands for useless information. He'll probably hang onto his rock samples and his beliefs until someone tosses them out after the estate sale.


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