# help 14k



## cloomis (Apr 17, 2008)

I took some necklaces and put them in a AR bath w/muratic and subzero i wouldnt react so i added some silver to the mix the gold melted away then after 16 hours i filtered and added urea no fizz .now i have small pieces floating not mutch tried to heat and added percipiant no gold dropping yet why? no fizz but mix turned brown like coke


----------



## Noxx (Apr 17, 2008)

Ok, I do not understand what you did...
Are you saying that you tried to dissolve 14k gold in AR ? You can do that, Aqua Regia is not able to dissolve gold alloyed with silver.


----------



## cloomis (Apr 17, 2008)

what i was trying to do is breaking down the gold necklace ,witch made a black cloud in the AR mix that stayed low in the mix. after the necklace was good nothing solid was in the mix i strained it the heated and added urea looking for the fizz. no reaction. Then i added percipiant to get the gold back.the mix turned a dark brown color and peices or gold formed and floated the sank but no brown mud yet is this a f...up or should it work


----------



## cloomis (Apr 17, 2008)

i added the silver instead or copper 2 bring down the gold %so the AR mix would be able 2 break down the gold


----------



## Palladium (Apr 17, 2008)

cloomis said:


> i added the silver instead or copper 2 bring down the gold %so the AR mix would be able 2 break down the gold



I think you mean Inquart. You have to melt them together, not just put them in solution together.


----------



## Noxx (Apr 17, 2008)

Also, AR is NOT able to dissolve silver. You need nitric acid.


----------



## cloomis (Apr 17, 2008)

i agree my mix is muratic acid and nitric acid


----------



## Noxx (Apr 17, 2008)

That won't work.


----------



## cloomis (Apr 18, 2008)

ok guess its a loss thanks how do i delete my post


----------



## Oz (Apr 18, 2008)

I’m a newbie here so I won’t be much help but I can tell you one thing I have learned. Your metals are not lost just because it is not solid, just hidden in solution. So do not throw anything away, there are those on here that can help. You may have to reprocess to get reasonably pure gold though. It does require patience and clearly giving as many details as possible and the order of your steps. I'm sorry I can't help more but I wanted to catch you before you threw away good gold.


----------



## cloomis (Apr 18, 2008)

thats cool .wish i knew the right way to deal with this theres 6grams worth of gold necklace in the mix already liquified all i have is muratic acid sub zero and urea would like good resaults ps thanks to all


----------



## Palladium (Apr 18, 2008)

What is your percipiant ?


----------



## cloomis (Apr 18, 2008)

storm/scrub powder


----------



## Harold_V (Apr 18, 2008)

cloomis said:


> thats cool .wish i knew the right way to deal with this theres 6grams worth of gold necklace in the mix already liquified all i have is muratic acid sub zero and urea would like good resaults ps thanks to all


You want help?

Pay close attention to my sig line. (The part in blue) 

Do not throw anything away. I can instruct you how to recover your values, but you're going to have to learn something about refining if you expect to enjoy success. You can do that by *PAYING ATTENTION TO MY SIG LINE!* 

If you're willing to follow my instructions, let me know. I'll help you through the recovery process and you won't have lost anything. 

Harold


----------



## Jim's24K (Apr 18, 2008)

Harold, I am paying attention, I ordered my copy today! Thank you for all of your help in this forum!


----------



## Harold_V (Apr 19, 2008)

A wise move, which you'll come to understand when you receive your book. 

We'll talk more when you're ready to start recovering the questionable material. Mean time, don't start any more projects. You desperately need some guidance to help you do the right thing. Hoke will provide it in terms you can understand, even if you don't know chemistry. 
That's the beauty of the book, as others will attest. 

Harold


----------



## Jim's24K (Apr 19, 2008)

I guess it will be a while before I really get started. Gesswin notified me that the books are out of stock and mine is back ordered, it will be 4-6 weeks. Story of my life. lol


----------



## lazersteve (Apr 19, 2008)

IPMI has plenty of the Hoke book in stock (12 last week) for $74 plus shipping. I can get them any day of the week as IPMI is right down the road.

Steve


----------



## docone31 (Jul 3, 2008)

I absolutely understand your frustration!
I have been a bunch of scrap, I got the Shor System, definately sorry for that, and I have been absorbing everything I can.
I wanted to rush in, and I am glad I did not.
So, I got a copy of the Hoke book, I am still awaiting to get it to the printers, I got a mess of scrap, filings, and junk pieces of 14kt.
I am hesitant to send the pile to a refiner. I have lost a lot of stuff through the mail, UPS, etc. I am sure it is ok, but it represents serious time, my efforts and my accumulations.
I am also hands on. I do not enjoy just doing something, I want to know how, why, and how it works.
Shoot, in my castings, I can just add the appropriate amount of ReCast and cast away.
I just want to learn.
Great forum, I am excited to learn away.


----------



## cerise (Jul 3, 2008)

I too am a victim of that Devil there at I shore.I Too am very thankful of this Forum.I too need to buy the book.Harold I have a mess of my own when you have some time and after i read the book,hopefully i can get that mess to dance for me.


----------



## Harold_V (Jul 4, 2008)

cerise said:


> Harold I have a mess of my own when you have some time and after i read the book,hopefully i can get that mess to dance for me.


The past week has been most trying, but I'm starting to see some daylight. While it's of little concern to others, my wife and I are building our retirement home, and doing almost all of the work ourselves. A crew showed up to do the exterior (synthetic stucco), and we weren't quite ready for them, so we've been burning full days getting ready. Sorry for the delay. 

As I recall, you have values in solution and can't recover them by conventional methods. You are held captive by one of the Shore systems. You are left with one option, with a few options on how to accomplish the mission. You may wish to get started before you have a copy of Hoke's book, for he process that is necessary requires very little in the way of information. 

You already alluded to using aluminum to recover values. While it works, and quite well, it isn't the best choice because it has the potential to yield solutions that are difficult to filter. My suggestion is to do a similar process, but using scrap steel in lieu of aluminum. You would have one other option, which may or may not be of interest to you. You could use copper, which will not reduce any of the base metals, unlike aluminum or steel. My personal choice would be scrap steel, which is the process Hoke recommends for the "stock pot". It works well, and is inexpensive. Scrap steel has relatively low value, unlike non-ferrous metals. 

I suggest you place the solution in a plastic bucket, and introduce some scrap steel. It normally reduces at a relatively slow pace, and should not bubble much, but allow for minor boil-over, particularly if you introduce metal that is galvanized. The values will be cemented as a black sludge, which you can recover and re-process by various means. 

Assuming you choose to use the procedure, when you are finished, the scrap steel may be covered with a black deposit, which should be well washed from the remaining pieces. They are the values you are recovering, and can stick to the metal. As an alternate to washing well, you can simply introduce a little free HCl, which will dissolve the steel and liberate the solids. Considering the relatively low cost of HCl, that would be the recommended procedure. 

After total precipitation of the solution (check with stannous chloride for values), collect all of the black sludge and place in a container to permit gravity to separate the solids from the liquid. Diluting with additional water can be useful, When the solids have settled totally, decant the solution to a second container, which can be allowed to settle yet again, in case you have transferred some of the values inadvertently. Filter the remaining solids to eliminate the balance of the solution, then incinerate the material, heating the residues to a dull red heat, but do not try to melt them. 

At this point you have a few options. I would suggest the incinerated solids be subjected to a boil in dilute nitric, assuming you have a large amount of copper. Otherwise, do the same in dilute HCl, then a couple rinses with tap water, allowing the values to settle well before decanting. Once you have that done, you can re-dissolve and further process the values by conventional methods. You may wish to use one of the work-around processes that are popular with refiners on the board, or you may wish to follow Hoke's instructions and process with AR. 


Regardless of the decision you make, you would benefit by waiting for Hoke's book before proceeding beyond the recovery process I outlined. By doing so, you'll have a better understanding of what to expect, and you'll understand proper testing procedures, should you not be aware now. 

Feel free to inquire further, assuming you feel I can be of assistance. 

Harold


----------



## cerise (Jul 4, 2008)

Ok Harold Im pretty sure i follow you . I sure Hope you well on your home .Ill be back in the shop monday ill also be doing some homework till then,
Thanks Harold


----------

