# Pins, Pins, Pins, What Am I Missing?



## searcher1x (Nov 9, 2015)

I joined this forum a couple of months back, unfortunately I never fully understood what a wealth of information it is or the knowledge and years of experience amassed by many of it's members. Fact is, I never used or logged into the forum (other than once or twice) until the last week.

I stumbled across some information on the web about 8 months back talking about Gold From Escrap. Read the article and decided, “Hey, I can do that”. I already had a bunch of old towers, cords, PCI cards, printers and on and on. I understood enough to recognize two facts. 

1st, I didn't know near enough to start reclaiming and refining PM's from escrap and needed to do much research. I did have some knowledge and experience working with chemicals, but not near enough

2nd, even though all the “junk” I had on hand would be a start, it wasn't near enough to make money from, serious or otherwise. I knew that to make any money I would need to find a way to access large amounts of old PC's and escrap or I would be wasting my time.

Little did I know where this new path was going to take me!

I read everything I could find online and, little by little, started to learn. Little did I know that 75% of what I was learning was false and misleading information. The authors of most of the information must be on some type of ego trip. Guess that's the beauty of the internet, if wrapped up and packaged real pretty you can fool people into believing just about anything! Well, fool me once shame on you; Fool me twice same on ME!

I found a way to get the computers and assorted electronics I needed and even found myself plunged into a new business. Buying old used electronics; some items would be refurbished and/or repaired and resold online; some items would be stripped for parts and resold online; some items would be broken down and recycled for scrap or broken down and any parts with PM potential would be separated and prepped for processing. 

My quest for a source of affordable computers and assorted electronics had became a profitable little business. I get to travel around buying and transporting the electronics I purchase. Since most of the electronics have some years on them I get exposure to equipment and components I never knew existed and, for the reason just stated, much of the electronics end up broken down, the common metals and components recycled and sold for scrap and I have an ever growing stockpile of items loaded with PM's and waiting for reclaim/refine processing. That brings me to where I am now.

Before I ask for advice I want to say I have read Hoke twice and always have a .pdf copy open on my desktop so I can do a quick keyword search. First time I read it made no sense at all to me. Second time, I still walked away confused. The information in the book seemed to jump around all over the place and was not presented in what I thought was a logical order of progression. Yes, the author of the book does know her stuff, but she leaves a lot to be desired with the composition and presentation of her knowledge. 

Also, the information she presented was in no way similar to anything I had found on the internet. The procedures and chemicals were slightly similar but for the most part entirely different. Every where in Hokes book when she talks of using AR to dissolve and suspend gold in solution, she stresses the point that to get the gold to drop you must and a little sulfuric acid to the solution after the gold is suspended, then boil the whole solution down to a paste like slurry and a lot of other things to get the gold to drop. Nowhere had I heard or read that information before. Even this week while searching and reading thread after thread on this forum I have yet to come across anything that says to boil AR before dropping the gold. 

That being said, a few weeks back I decided that I needed to get my feet wet and try to process something. I had managed to collect 2lbs. of pins with some degree of gold on them; some fully plated, some partially plated and some with just the tips plated and figured this was as good a place as any to start. I had no idea that I had chosen the dirtiest, hardest and most time consuming material to start with. Guess we all have to mount the learning curve at some point, looks like I choose the worst place I could find to hop on board.

Took about a 1/2lb of pins and put in a small, plastic container that I could cap and shake regularly and covered with AP. A couple of weeks later I dumped the remaining 1.5lbs in a large container and covered with AP. 

4 weeks later the small container had reduced in volume around 65%, happy camper I was not! Knew something was wrong but could not put my finger on it. Funny thing, there is very little credible information on the internet when it comes to pins. Almost everything I did find always talked about solid or fully plated pins and that information was sketchy and never addressed the problems I was experiencing. Started keyword searching Hoke and learned about addressing lead and tin contaminating as separate issues. Tried the different acid baths and still just could not seem to get the bulk to reduce very fast at all. Then I had a flash, why not burn the pins with a torch and get rid of a lot of the excess metal bulk that way. Nowhere had I read burning was bad, in fact what I had read seemed to indicate just the opposite.

Drained, filtered and washed the pins then dumped them in a stainless steel sheet-rock mud pan and fired up the torch. used a small mortar trowel to chop the pins up when they glowed red. Noticed some of the gold plating would melt and run together in clumps so I chopped them up also. Figured smaller particles would be easier to process. This reduced the bulk dramatically. Then I sifted all the material through a tea filter, washed in HCL and water and ran through the AP another time.

After a few days filtered, washed and decided it was time for the AC step. Wrong! I guess the pins were still loaded with base metals and very little were suspended in solution. After a week I decided they had dissolved as much as they were going to dissolve. Filtered, washed and put the remaining pins aside to address in the future. Decided to see if I could drop the gold from solution. Diluted, heated for a few hours to eliminate any excess chlorine and got out the old smb. After starting the drop I ran out of smb, no prob, it was late so I figured I'd get some more the next day and finish up. Every have one of those days that everything that could go wrong, would go wrong? Next day, I did!

Next day I picked up a bunch of different chemicals, even came across some ph down that I snatched up. Figured I'd get the smb at Lowe’s on the way home. Surprise, Lowe’s didn't carry stump-out, I would need to get that at Home Depot and that was 10 miles back the direction I had just came from What the heck, I remembered reading that smb became sodium bisulfite when added to water and I did have some ph down. I never noticed that ph down had an “a” instead of an “i” in it's name. Guess you can see where this is headed, right? Long story short, when the sb was not working I looked at the chemical component and started to wonder if I had screwed up royally. 

That's when I really started to learn how valuable this forum actually is. Started searching and found a post where the poor guy had made the same error as I. Steve said all was not lost and outlined a few different ways the the gold could possibly be saved. I put the solution aside and will let you know what happens when I get back to it.

It had been a week since I had started processing the 1.5lbs of pins in the AP (did I mention that I had burned the crap out of those pins also to reduce their bulk? It was becoming apparent that there was something I was missing because at their current rate, it would be after Christmas before all the base metal was gone. Again, got back on the forum and started reading thread after thread. Then, for the first time in all the months since I had been studding and reading about recovering and refining, there it was, one of the wiser-than-me forum users said it ...you can't process magnetic pins with AP. What? Why hadn't any of the self proclaimed “experts” that did video after video on YouTube ever said that? Heck, they made processing pins seem like a walk in the park. Let me tell you, it's been anything but!

OK, it's never too late, took my pins, filtered, boiled in HLC for two hours, did multiple hot water baths and then pulled out the concentrated sulfuric acid. Covered the pins in H2O and added an equal amount of concentrated sulfuric acid to the pot and turned on the heat. Boiled the pins for 4 hours in the solution, what a difference! Cooled down and poured off the solution. Washed the pins 4 times in water. Then covered with water one more time and let set overnight. Today I put the pot back on heat and brought to a boil, filtered and repeated the wash 4 more times. Next covered pins with HCL, boiled for 1 hour, poured off solution and washed 4 times in boiling water. Covered with aged AP and placed aside for the night

When I was washing the pins after the sulfuric boil every time I washed the water went milk white. Same with the HLC, first couple of washes went milky white, the following 2 washes were sort of like skim milk with what looked like a distinct light orange solution floating on the top (maybe rust??)

Well, there it is, my shame for all to see!. I'm open to any feedback anyone can offer. Where I went wrong, what was going on and where I go now. Only concerned with the larger batch of pins, the smaller batch is not even worth talking about. 

Thanks in advance and … be gentle


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## jimdoc (Nov 9, 2015)

be genital?


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## searcher1x (Nov 9, 2015)

lmao ... darn spell checker, got me on that one! There, fixed it .. and thanks


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 9, 2015)

First suggestion is to quit watching youtube.

Next suggestion would be for you to do some more searching here on the use of AP. Get you an aquarium bubbler and use it with your AP. And do some searching and reading up on the use of AP here on the forum. Everyone has to start some where.


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## searcher1x (Nov 9, 2015)

Barren, I have been and will continue to search this forum. Perhaps you missed it in my main post but is was in this forum that I got the information that AP is the wrong process for magnetic pins

Even though you did not come out and say it, I get the impression from your reply that you don't agree with that statement.

Do you believe that AP is the best way to chemically process magnetic pins or is the other poster correct in their insertion that AP is not the correct way to process pins.

One other comment, and no disrespect intended, but your reply was really next to useless. Instead of offering something constructive you choose instead to state the general obvious facts. I'm not asking for anyone to take me by the hand but I do expect those who choose to respond to at least be constructive. If you don't feel that I am worthy of your help, I can live with that. But do us both a favor and don't waste my time, or yours with trivial comments that serve no practical purpose what so ever


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## jimdoc (Nov 9, 2015)

searcher1x said:


> Barren, I have been and will continue to search this forum. Perhaps you missed it in my main post but is was in this forum that I got the information that AP is the wrong process for magnetic pins
> 
> Even though you did not come out and say it, I get the impression from your reply that you don't agree with that statement.
> 
> ...



I think you really need to search and study the forum, and ask no questions for a while with an attitude like that.

Jim


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## searcher1x (Nov 9, 2015)

He who never asks a question will never hear the answer, and is asking for positive, constructive input what you consider to be an attitude? If so, then I guess I'm full of attitude.

Ever heard it said ... If you don't have anything positive or constructive to say, then say nothing


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## jimdoc (Nov 10, 2015)

searcher1x said:


> He who never asks a question will never hear the answer, and is asking for positive, constructive input what you consider to be an attitude? If so, then I guess I'm full of attitude.
> 
> Ever heard it said ... If you don't have anything positive or constructive to say, then say nothing



Ever hear..................
Bye


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## denim (Nov 10, 2015)

searcher1x said:


> Ever heard it said ... If you don't have anything positive or constructive to say, then say nothing



Really? :shock:


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## 4metals (Nov 10, 2015)

Read about AP here in the library.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=22571

Steel pins aren't the best in AP. A sulfuric cell would be better. 

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=22604&p=237138#p237138


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## searcher1x (Nov 10, 2015)

Thank you 4metals, I'll do just that. And thanks for the links


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## Shark (Nov 10, 2015)

> Next suggestion would be for you to do some more searching here on the use of AP. Get you an aquarium bubbler and use it with your AP. And do some searching and reading up on the use of AP here on the forum.



That is actually some very sound advice. One of the main failures I see, and have done myself, is the use of way to little "AP" when beginners start trying to do pins. It will take a fairly large volume of solution to hold the amount of base metals in one or two pound pins. A sulfuric cell would be a good choice if you access to pins by lots of several pounds at a time.

(I see I was beat to it)


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## Grelko (Nov 10, 2015)

Shark said:


> One of the main failures I see, and have done myself, is the use of way to little "AP" when beginners start trying to do pins. It will take a fairly large volume of solution to hold the amount of base metals in one or two pound pins.



searcher1x,

Shark is absolutely right. I didn't use enough AP for my 3.5 pounds of pins at first either. Here is the link incase you want to read how my attempt went. I'm not quite finished yet "I've been processing IC chips lately", but there is alot of questions and some mistakes I had with the pins. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=22285


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## searcher1x (Nov 10, 2015)

Shark said:


> > Next suggestion would be for you to do some more searching here on the use of AP. Get you an aquarium bubbler and use it with your AP. And do some searching and reading up on the use of AP here on the forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Shark, I did have an aquarium bubbler on order. It arrived late yesterday afternoon and I will be installing it today

Another question for all, are there any negative consequences to to torch burning the magnetic pins, before starting any of the acid procedures to;
a) flame clean any contaminates off the metal first 
b) weaken the integrity of the base metals which should allow the acids to do their job without having to work as hard, and
c) reduce the overall bulk volume of the materials?

I do remember reading in Hoke that you should anneal the metals before starting any of the acid procedures but I never find mention of that step anywhere else. Also, even though Hoke did say to anneal first, she never explained the reason or benefits associated with annealing. Can anyone elaborate?


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 10, 2015)

searcher1x said:


> Barren, I have been and will continue to search this forum. Perhaps you missed it in my main post but is was in this forum that I got the information that AP is the wrong process for magnetic pins
> 
> Even though you did not come out and say it, I get the impression from your reply that you don't agree with that statement.
> 
> ...



Don't waste your time!! That's rich :roll: . I like that. The perfect statement coming from a member that has been on the forum for over 7 months. Over a hundred members have looked at your post and possibly read it. So how much of the forum members time did you just waste by posting your comment and expecting them to read it and give you a detailed answer on where you have screwed up? With that one statement you have cut out a lot of the members that would comment on your post to give you help because of your attitude. Most of us love to help other members out when they get in a bind but we do have other things to do as well.

If you go to Home Depot and ask for a bolt the associate will tell you they are on isle 9 and expect you to go look on that isle and find the bolt you are looking for rather that telling you to go to isle 9 left hand side first rack of shelving 3 bins down and 5 bins over from the left hand side.

After all of your reading where did you learn that you needed and air bubbler for your AP solution? And you are just now ordering one? You could have gone to Wal Mart and gotten one for the cost of your postage you paid for the one you have ordered and it is coming in. You should have absorbed in the first month of your reading that it is vital to have an air bubbler of some sort for your AP reaction to work better not 6-7 months later.

Most all of the pins you are going to get from the type of material you are processing are going to have some magnetic properties. Either from being kovar a steel alloy or from the nickle barrier between the gold and the base metals steel, kovar, copper or brass. You have to learn the difference in how magnetic they are and make the decision on how to process them in the manner you feel is the safest for your level of experience. Anealing your pins is not going to help a bit in your processing of the pins. Incinerating will help to a small extent for what you are doing by removing any oil, greese or other contaminants from your material.

A sulphuric cell is not going to be of much use to you on the current batch you are processing because you have already dissolved part of the base metals and have small flakes of gold foils that will not separate from the pins and therefore you will have to wash the pins a lot to remove the gold foils from the pins after you run them through the cell. But IMHO running the low grade pins you have in a cell is more trouble than it is worth unless you have a large volume to process and by a large volume I mean pounds. For that you would want to search for a tumbler cell on the forum.

A gallon of HCL should dissolve a little over 2 pounds of copper. It will dissolve less if you have kovar pins in your mix because the copper will cement out of solution onto your kovar pins and thus have to be redissolved into your AP again. This kind of a double edged sword because as the copper cements onto the kovar it dissolves part of the kover. However the steel that is being put into solution ruins the AP solution and converts it to a different kind of solution but it will still continue to attack the copper and dissolve it into solution. Doing this in a crock pot will help you process the material faster because the heat aids in speeding up the process along with the air bubbler.

Now lets stop here and clarify something at this point the solution should not be referred to as AP but as copper chloride solution because that is what you have produced. So therefor you should refrence your solution as copper chloride not as AP.


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## searcher1x (Nov 10, 2015)

Barren, First let me thank you for your reply and taking the time to provide me with some answers. Since you have been so kind I will try and answer the questions you have asked.



Barren Realms 007 said:


> After all of your reading where did you learn that you needed and air bubbler for your AP solution?



As I stated earlier, I've been reading from many different sources on the internet for the last few months, excluding this forum. My Bad, we all make mistakes and I, for one, have no problem owning up to mine. That being said, a few of the articles I read mentioned that a bubler would speed up the reaction, but none said its was absolutely necessary, vital or mandatory. Actually the vast majority of the information I read never even mentioned a bubbler. My decision to order one came from the realization that what I was currently doing was just not going to cut it, so the bubbler was a move of desperation to fix what seemed to be broken.



Barren Realms 007 said:


> And you are just now ordering one?.



Yes, came in late yesterday evening,



Barren Realms 007 said:


> You could have gone to Wal Mart and gotten one for the cost of your postage you paid for the one you have ordered and it is coming in.



That, my friend, is an assumption on your part, and a wrong one at that. I don't live in the city, but deep in rural country. The nearest Wal-Mart is over 20 miles away and the gas alone (at today's price) would cost me close to $4.00 for a round trip. There was no postage on the bubbler I bought so that assumption does not apply. I paid a grand total of $5.88 delivered for the bubbler. If what you assume is true then that would mean I could have bought one at Wal-Mart for under $1.88. WOW, if I had known that I would have been right on it. Sorry, no need for sarcasm! My apologizes. Even If I could have gotten one for free it would not have been a factor since, as I said earlier, the realization and decision to acquire one was just made in the last week.



Barren Realms 007 said:


> You should have absorbed in the first month of your reading that it is vital to have an air bubbler of some sort for your AP reaction to work better not 6-7 months later.



Again, as I just stated, few of the articles I read mentioned that a bubler would speed up the reaction, but none said its was absolutely necessary, vital or mandatory. The vast majority of the information I read never even mentioned a bubbler.



Barren Realms 007 said:


> Most all of the pins you are going to get from the type of material you are processing are going to have some magnetic properties. Either from being kovar a steel alloy or from the nickle barrier between the gold and the base metals steel, kovar, copper or brass. You have to learn the difference in how magnetic they are and make the decision on how to process them in the manner you feel is the safest for your level of experience.



Thanks for sharing that insight with me. Would you care to point me in the right direction (other than just saying read the forum) where I can find some information that addresses that point?



Barren Realms 007 said:


> Anealing your pins is not going to help a bit in your processing of the pins. Incinerating will help to a small extent for what you are doing by removing any oil, greese or other contaminants from your material.



OK, I can't argue something I don't really know, but I do have 2 questions that relate to your comment I would appreciate and answer to:

a) If annealing is of no use and a waste of time, why does Hoke include it in her book as a step to take prior to any chemical processing? Is the use on "annealing" just a misuse of terms on her part? Should have said incinerate instead? and

b) correct me if I am wrong, but considering the size and thickness of the metal pins, and the level of heat incineration requires, incinerating them is also going to anneal them at the same time. Only way to avoid that would be too cool them quickly, like dropping them in a bucket of cold water. Even then you would have to move rather quickly so they did not cool naturally (which is the actual process of annealing) to avoid annealing? Any thoughts on that?



Barren Realms 007 said:


> A sulphuric cell is not going to be of much use to you on the current batch you are processing because you have already dissolved part of the base metals and have small flakes of gold foils that will not separate from the pins and therefore you will have to wash the pins a lot to remove the gold foils from the pins after you run them through the cell. But IMHO running the low grade pins you have in a cell is more trouble than it is worth unless you have a large volume to process and by a large volume I mean pounds. For that you would want to search for a tumbler cell on the forum.



Again, thanks for that information but, like you say, at my level of experience I don't plan on going anywhere near a sulphuric cell at this time (nor do I plan on processing any more pins for some time). I still have much to learn, once I have grown in experience and knowledge I'll think about a sulphuric cell. Now, as to a tumbler cell, this is the first time I have ever heard that term. I can promise you I will start researching that immediately. Sounds like it could have much potential. If you care to point me in the right direction I will be grateful, if not I understand and will find it on my own.



Barren Realms 007 said:


> A gallon of HCL should dissolve a little over 2 pounds of copper. It will dissolve less if you have kovar pins in your mix because the copper will cement out of solution onto your kovar pins and thus have to be redissolved into your AP again. This kind of a double edged sword because as the copper cements onto the kovar it dissolves part of the kover. However the steel that is being put into solution ruins the AP solution and converts it to a different kind of solution but it will still continue to attack the copper and dissolve it into solution. Doing this in a crock pot will help you process the material faster because the heat aids in speeding up the process along with the air bubbler.



Thanks for that insight



Barren Realms 007 said:


> Now lets stop here and clarify something at this point the solution should not be referred to as AP but as copper chloride solution because that is what you have produced. So therefor you should refrence your solution as copper chloride not as AP.



Point well taken. I know there is a difference, however it is much easier and faster to write AP then copper chloride or copper chloride copper chloride (whichever the case may be). That, coupled with the fact that a majority of the post I have read on this forum and other places take the same liberty as I did and everyone on this site seemed to know what they were trying to say, was my reason for using AP. Does that make using an incorrect term, even if considered an acceptable practice, OK? Definitely not. Like I said, point well taken

For the record, I do apologize for my response to your comment last might. I can assure you it was more so born out of frustration than anything you said or did.


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2015)

Great so we've got through all the malarkey and we're all friends now? 8) 8) 

Searcher to answer one of your points. Hoke was written in an era before even the concept of IT or ewaste was born. Her processes and insights, whilst a vast resource for the chemical and practical basis of refining do not always translate perfectly when processing ewaste. 

Many more metals are used in electronics scrap and more importantly in differing combinations, and with modern composite base components than in her day. 

As such her work should always be cross referenced with the experience of modern ewaste refiners before applying some of her processes to this newer type of material. 

I hope that helps

Jon


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## Lou (Nov 10, 2015)

Ok, 

Enough bickering guys.

All these pins questions literally make me want to write "PINS--the comprehensive guide to processing gold plated stuff that you probably shouldn't even be processing"
Then we can just say "refer to page 181"

More or less, there's extracting the gold selectively from the pins accomplished by:
thiourea
thiocyanate
in situ peroxysulfuric acid (the deplating cell)
cyanide
organic solvents/gold ligands (i.e. TBP and I2, SOCl2/pyridine, NMP/HNO3/quat ammonium halide)

or there's extracting/subverting the base metal substrate in part or in whole and leaving the gold behind with:
nitric acid
acid peroxide 
electrowinning
etc.

What way you do it depends on the pins. Generally, Au/Cu needs nitric to get the gold off quantitatively. Au/Ni/Cu (or brass), and the strip liquors are fine.

Lou


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 10, 2015)

searcher1x said:


> Barren, First let me thank you for your reply and taking the time to provide me with some answers. Since you have been so kind I will try and answer the questions you have asked.



No problem. You cought me on a good day. :mrgreen: 



> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > After all of your reading where did you learn that you needed and air bubbler for your AP solution?
> ...



That was good judgement on your part and will pay dividends in what you are doing.
Pretty much all the reading material you will need is here on the forum if you learn how to do the searches but it can be a daunting task.
If you look up Lazersteve and go to his website he has a better search function than the forum does.

Also there is another site you can visit and join that will give you a lot of help: http://www.Refinemntofpreciousmetals.com

Most of the rest rest except for members youtube channels and websites I would probably stay away from. If you do enough searching here and on RPM you will have every answer to any question you might possibly have answered.



> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > And you are just now ordering one?.
> ...



That is good. Before you use the bubbler take a 5 gallon bucket and fill it with water and put the air hose weighted down into the bottom of the bucket and make sure it will pump air to the bottom of the bucket. Some of the bubblers members have ordered online did not produce enough force to pump air into the bottom of the bucket. Also find you an air stone to attach to your hose to produce smaller bubbles that will allow the oxygen to be absorbed into the solution faster.



> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > You could have gone to Wal Mart and gotten one for the cost of your postage you paid for the one you have ordered and it is coming in.
> ...



I figured that would be the case that you were in the country but I was going to let you elaborate on that information. If your new air pump doesn't do the job then make a trip to Wal Mart and get a dual outlet aquarium pump some extra hose and an air stone. In the long run it will be worth the gas money. 8) 



> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > You should have absorbed in the first month of your reading that it is vital to have an air bubbler of some sort for your AP reaction to work better not 6-7 months later.
> ...



It's not mandatory but if you want a faster reaction time it helps a lot.



> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > Most all of the pins you are going to get from the type of material you are processing are going to have some magnetic properties. Either from being kovar a steel alloy or from the nickle barrier between the gold and the base metals steel, kovar, copper or brass. You have to learn the difference in how magnetic they are and make the decision on how to process them in the manner you feel is the safest for your level of experience.
> ...



I'm not really sure if there is a direct post or thread that states this fact it is just something you will learn from doing a lot of reading on the forum and catching small tibits of information here and there.

Best thing I could tell you is to take some pins and a magnet. Wrap the magnet in a zip lock bag so you can easily remove the pins from the magnet. Then test some of the pins and see which one stick strongly to the magnet and which ones don't stick so strongly to the magnet. The ones that don't stick real strong are generally copper or brass with a nickle coating between the gold plating and the base metal, the magnatism comes from the nickle coating. The ones that stick real hard should be kovar or steel based metal under the gold plating.



> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > Anealing your pins is not going to help a bit in your processing of the pins. Incinerating will help to a small extent for what you are doing by removing any oil, greese or other contaminants from your material.
> ...



As far as I know she was actually referring to incinerating.

Annealing is more or less a mute point in processing because it is not going to have much relevance in the processing of your material.



> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > A sulphuric cell is not going to be of much use to you on the current batch you are processing because you have already dissolved part of the base metals and have small flakes of gold foils that will not separate from the pins and therefore you will have to wash the pins a lot to remove the gold foils from the pins after you run them through the cell. But IMHO running the low grade pins you have in a cell is more trouble than it is worth unless you have a large volume to process and by a large volume I mean pounds. For that you would want to search for a tumbler cell on the forum.
> ...



http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=sulphuric+tumbler+cell&terms=all&author=&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=tumbler+cell&terms=all&author=&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

See if those searches helps you.



> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > A gallon of HCL should dissolve a little over 2 pounds of copper. It will dissolve less if you have kovar pins in your mix because the copper will cement out of solution onto your kovar pins and thus have to be redissolved into your AP again. This kind of a double edged sword because as the copper cements onto the kovar it dissolves part of the kover. However the steel that is being put into solution ruins the AP solution and converts it to a different kind of solution but it will still continue to attack the copper and dissolve it into solution. Doing this in a crock pot will help you process the material faster because the heat aids in speeding up the process along with the air bubbler.
> ...



No problem.



> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > Now lets stop here and clarify something at this point the solution should not be referred to as AP but as copper chloride solution because that is what you have produced. So therefor you should refrence your solution as copper chloride not as AP.
> ...



It is attention to detail that makes the difference and yes it is important in the long run. You will learn as you go along that one letter in a word can mean the difference in success or failure. No use starting off with bad habits and then have to change how you think or word things.

Apology accepted. I understand the frustration. Been there, done that. I have the shirt,shoes socks and pants that go with the outfit. 8)


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## searcher1x (Nov 10, 2015)

spaceships said:


> Great so we've got through all the malarkey and we're all friends now? 8) 8)
> 
> Searcher to answer one of your points. Hoke was written in an era before even the concept of IT or ewaste was born. Her processes and insights, whilst a vast resource for the chemical and practical basis of refining do not always translate perfectly when processing ewaste.
> 
> ...



Jon, thanks for that explanation, that actually answers more questions I had about her book. Gott'a give her this, she was years ahead of her competition!


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## searcher1x (Nov 10, 2015)

Lou said:


> Ok,
> 
> Enough bickering guys.
> 
> ...



Lou, not sure what to say. You certainly threw a bunch of stuff at me that I had never heard before! Guess I have more research to do then I realized. Thanks!


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## Geo (Nov 10, 2015)

Unless the piece is large or bulky, the stripping cell is a slow go and you must be with it continuously. Since hydrochloric acid is the cheapest component for me, I process all of my loose pins in AP. If the pins are bronze, it does create some tin oxide that can be a pain if you are not accustom to it. The iron based pins do not hinder the dissolution just being iron based. It is a matter of aesthetics to me. Copper(II) chloride will dissolve almost all base metal that is more reactive than gold. Free oxygen is needed to drive the reaction. If left undisturbed, the oxygen is absorbed directly from the air which is very slow. Adding an oxygen source will keep the solution oxygenated and drive the reaction. AP (copper(II) chloride is a set it and forget it type of process. I am finishing a batch of 28 pounds of whole memory sticks in AP. Not recommended for the beginner. I also use an oxygen concentrator so the dissolution of the base metal freeing the foils and chips takes only a few days.


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## searcher1x (Nov 10, 2015)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Also there is another site you can visit and join that will give you a lot of help: http://www.Refinemntofpreciousmetals.com



Thanks for that link. I'm the type of person that once I decide too learn something new I read and research everything I can get my hands on. I only wish I had recognized this forum for the valuable resource it is sooner than I did.



Barren Realms 007 said:


> I'm not really sure if there is a direct post or thread that states this fact it is just something you will learn from doing a lot of reading on the forum and catching small tibits of information here and there.
> 
> Best thing I could tell you is to take some pins and a magnet. Wrap the magnet in a zip lock bag so you can easily remove the pins from the magnet. Then test some of the pins and see which one stick strongly to the magnet and which ones don't stick so strongly to the magnet. The ones that don't stick real strong are generally copper or brass with a nickle coating between the gold plating and the base metal, the magnatism comes from the nickle coating. The ones that stick real hard should be kovar or steel based metal under the gold plating.



Great Tip! I will do just that!



Barren Realms 007 said:


> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=sulphuric+tumbler+cell&terms=all&author=&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=tumbler+cell&terms=all&author=&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search.
> 
> ...



Thanks for those links, you saved me a lot of time. I like the crock pot idea, beats the heck out of what I'm using now: hot plate, coffee pots and an assortment of bottles and glass ware. I can see that the bottles are dangerous. I've lost 2 in 3 days, they just don't stand up to hot H2SO4. Sooner or later I'm going to either loose a run of gold or end up injured because one of them busts and hot H2SO4 goes everywhere. That's not something I find appealing!

Right now I'm working outside to as a precaution. Several years back I built the wife a green house, went all out with heaters for the winter and fluorescent fixtures in case she wanted grow lights for nights or cloudy days. The first few years she loved it, even had some tomato plants the were close to 2 years old and produced tomato's non-stop the entire 2 years. But as seems to be the case with most things in life, after a few years the thrill wore off and now it sees very little usage.

Been thinking about building a fume hood and working in there through the winter. My background is HVAC, plumbing & controls and I already have all of the necessary parts (fans, plastics for the enclosure and exhaust duct). I know the fumes will work on the fan and eventually render it useless. To compensate for the fumes and extend the life of the fan I was figuring to install a wet filter system to somewhat scrub the fumes before they made it too the fan. I know it will not save the fan but it should extend its life for a few months, maybe even longer.

Any thoughts or suggestions?


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## maynman1751 (Nov 11, 2015)

> Several years back I built the wife a green house


What materials are the greenhouse built from? If it's a metal frame, especially aluminum, the fumes from the acids will attack the metal. Even fluorescent light fixtures will be destroyed. Fume control is very important. Ask me how I know!!!! :shock: :roll:


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## searcher1x (Nov 11, 2015)

maynman1751 said:


> > Several years back I built the wife a green house
> 
> 
> What materials are the greenhouse built from? If it's a metal frame, especially aluminum, the fumes from the acids will attack the metal. Even fluorescent light fixtures will be destroyed. Fume control is very important. Ask me how I know!!!! :shock: :roll:



No metal, basically it's a stick frame with clear Corrugated Polycarbonate panels for the roof and side wall exterior covering, The first 4' from the ground up have a wood panelling on the inside & outside with 4" of insulation. From that point up its Corrugated Polycarbonate on a hinged frame that flip out during really hot months for circulation. Also there's a fan to force circulation when needed. Gets maximum amount of sunshine both summer & winter. 

Only thing I did not install was running water, that would have involved trenching and tapping supply in house and extending a line to the structure. Currently we have a lot of 1 gal bottles that we hose fill and store in it. Electricity was no problem, I have a work shop and couple of other buildings very close by so I tapped into their breaker box and pulled a separate circuit for the greenhouse. I really wish I had installed running water now, but it is what it is.

Thanks for your input, I had not considered how the fumes would affect the lights. I'll make sure to include a front panel that slides up and down so I can isolate the hood when I'm not standing in front of it working. That should help contain fumes to some degree.

Any other thoughts, comments or suggestions are welcome.


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## searcher1x (Nov 12, 2015)

maynman1751 said:


> If it's a metal frame, especially aluminum, the fumes from the acids will attack the metal. Even fluorescent light fixtures will be destroyed. Fume control is very important. Ask me how I know!!!! :shock: :roll:



Maynam1751, I was thinking about the lights and fume control. As long as I keep a negative pressure in the hood and a positive pressure in the greenhouse, fumes shouldn't be a problem. Only way they could possible back into the greenhouse is if the pressure in the hood was equal too or more than the greenhouse, like if the hood fan is turned off. A strong wind outside could force a pressure fluctuation in the hood and back the fumes up but I can control that with a backdraft damper Thanks for mentioning that possibility, if you hadn't got me thinking along that line I would probable not have included a backdraft damper.


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## searcher1x (Nov 12, 2015)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> A gallon of HCL should dissolve a little over 2 pounds of copper. It will dissolve less if you have kovar pins in your mix because the copper will cement out of solution onto your kovar pins and thus have to be redissolved into your AP again. This kind of a double edged sword because as the copper cements onto the kovar it dissolves part of the kover. However the steel that is being put into solution ruins the AP solution and converts it to a different kind of solution but it will still continue to attack the copper and dissolve it into solution. Doing this in a crock pot will help you process the material faster because the heat aids in speeding up the process along with the air bubbler



Barren, I was rereading this and it finally sunk in what you said. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was noticing how some, actually a lot of the pins almost looked like they were a color similar to gold after spending weeks in the solution, which didn't make sense to me. Was this what you were talking about when you said "if you have kovar pins in your mix because the copper will cement out of solution onto your kovar pins"?

It's obvious I picked the worst possible material I could pick for my first attempt at reclaiming. The amount of work and chemicals I have wasted is crazy! And what do I have too show for it, a pot full dirty pins and wore out AP, oopps, I mean copper chloride solution  from all of the magnetic metal in it. The problem is now I'm so pissed :evil: off at the darn pins that I'm more determined than ever to finish them regardless how long it takes or how much it costs! Oh yeah, I got the bubbler running and it does appear to be helping but I'll tell you more once I pull the pins and take a look.


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## Raven turmoil (Nov 13, 2015)

i would like to make 1 suggestion, take a small amount of hcl mix with some 95%tin solder, keep in a small bottle. kinda like a test type solution, use it religiously, you can find out more by reading Hoke or the Forum, Hind site is 20/20.


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## butcher (Nov 13, 2015)

searcher1x,
Your posts are so wordy I am having a hard time following them ( I probably get tired of reading to find your points).
Many members may say the same of my posts.

Reading the forum and study is how to find answers to your questions.
Copper II chloride CuCl2 will dissolve copper.
HCl acid will not attack copper.
HCl will dissolve copper oxide.
So we need to form copper oxide or oxidize the copper.
Oxidize means to loose electrons, the copper metal here gives up electrons, in doing so becomes copper ions, in this case of copper oxide.
We need oxygen to form copper oxide, copper metal being one of the more unreactive metals does not oxidize easily in air, but will easily oxidize if air or oxygen is in the acid.
We can use H2O2 in the acid to start the process, and bubble in air to continue the process.
CuO + 2HCl --> CuCl2 + H2O
We have to get the copper to oxidize, or form CuO.
the reaction of the HCl and copper oxide gives us copper II chloride and water.
The hydrochloric acid acid is reduced to chloride Ions (water forms from the hydrogen of the acid and the oxygen from the copper oxide).
Reduced means to gain electrons.
Now we have a dissolved salt of copper cations and chloride anions.
CuCl2 will dissolve copper.
Or stated another way, will oxidize copper, the copper is oxidized the copper II chloride is reduced in the reaction:
CuCl2 + Cu --> 2CuCl
The copper dissolved by the copper II chloride, the copper is oxidized (gave up electrons to form copper ions) the copper II chloride is reduced (gained electrons to form copper I chloride).
Now we have a solution of copper I chloride.
Copper I chloride will not dissolve copper.
CuCl + Cu --> no reaction
But we can rejuvenate the copper I chloride to form copper II chloride (which will dissolve more copper).
CuCl + HCl --> CuCl2 + H2 
So starting with copper metal, hydrochloric acid, and hydrogen peroxide to get some copper II chloride:
Cu + 2HCl + H2O2 --> CuO + 2HCl + H2O (then) --> CuCl2 + 2H2O
Air bubbled in and small additions of HCl (when needed) will keep this reaction going to dissolve copper metal into solution.

One metal (more reactive) will cement or displace a metal from solution which is lower in the "reactivity series of metals" (study this), iron is more reactive than copper, so iron metal will displace copper from solution, in this reaction the iron is oxidized the copper is reduced, the iron gives up electrons to the copper ions, the copper ions gaining electrons are reduced to copper atoms, these copper atoms join to form a copper powder that plates out and or falls to the bottom of the reaction vessel, the iron atoms loosing electrons form iron ions in this case we form a salt of iron chloride.
CuCl2 + Fe --> FeCl2
OH now we do not have copper chloride we now have an iron chloride, Iron I chloride (ferrous chloride), will not dissolve more copper.

Bummer

Not all is lost, with chemistry and an education of it, we can proceed to use this solution to dissolve more iron and even to dissolve more copper, we just need to make the ferrous chloride into ferric chloride (another etch for copper) ferric chloride (FeCl3) will oxidize copper or iron.

Studying the forum you will find this tidbit of information, from one of my previous posts:

Reusing old copper chloride solution to attack copper or Iron chloride solution to dissolve copper, this will work for gold or silver, the silver will form chloride so some of the silver makes silver chloride, some of the thicker pieces of silver are left protected by the chloride crust.

With any recovery methods the more of the base metal you can remove mechanically (like cutting the silver contacts off of the large copper bus bar), the less base metal you will have to dissolve.

Collection of some older posts I made on this subject:

Old used Copper II chloride solution (reusing the waste), or making and using the ferric chloride leach...

Ferrous chloride FeCl2 can be made dissolving Iron in HCl and water approximate equal volumes of water and acid, (steel wool or transformer laminates).
Fe (s) + 2HCl (aq) + H2O (l) --> FeCl2 (aq) + H2 (g)

Ferrous chloride FeCl2 with excess HCl will oxidize with air to form Ferric chloride, but the reaction can take a very long time.
FeCl2 (aq) + 1/4 O2 (g) + HCl (aq) --> FeCl3 (aq) + 1/2 H2O

Now from the ferrous chloride FeCl2, we can make ferric chloride FeCl3, with about equal volume of 3% Hydrogen peroxide H2O2. Heat is generated in the reaction of oxidation of the iron chloride.
FeCl2 (aq) + H2O2 (aq) + HCl (aq) --> FeCl3 + H2O + H + O

Ferric chloride (FeCl3) can etch copper (Cu) or iron (Fe), oxidizing the copper or iron into solution and reducing the ferric chloride (FeCl3) back to ferrous chloride (FeCl2).
2FeCl3 (aq) + Fe (s) --> 3FeCl2 (aq)
Etching copper a two step process.
FeCl3 (aq) + Cu (s) --> FeCl2 (aq) + CuCl
Then
FeCl3 (aq) + CuCl --> FeCl2 (aq) + CuCl2 (aq)

Now we have discussed the normal leach for copper used to etch copper.
Let add some things to this discussions where we can continue to use this solution.
(This discussion also applies to the old used copper II chloride leach we can no longer use because it has been contaminated with iron or Kovar.)

We can heat this solution (ferrous chloride and cupric chloride (FeCl2 + CuCl2) with more copper, (this copper could be copper we need to dissolve from other metals like silver or gold plating like pins or pieces of copper with silver contact points...), the solution when heated being still acidic eats at the copper with a vengeance, especially as it gets concentrated, heating it to a fairly thick dark brown solution.
FeCl2 + CuCl2 + Cu (s) --> FeCl2 (aq) + 2 CuCl (aq)
Here we have both ferrous chloride and cuprous chloride dissolved in solution.

This leaves us with ferrous chloride and cuprous chloride in solution, If we decant a portion of this solution into a jar and let it cool, Most of the CuCl will settle out as a dark powder (along with any gold flakes, silver chloride, lead chloride if involve...).

Now once cooled and settled we can we can decant the mostly ferrous chloride back to the main solution (we will discuss it more later).

The copper I chloride (cuprous chloride) (CuCl), can be rinsed with Hot boiling water (this will dissolve some salts of the iron and copper chlorides, and lead (this rinse water decanted hot can also be returned to the main solution.
This leaves us with white powders of copper I chloride, silver chloride and gold flakes, now we can save these powders for reuse later.
Or dissolve the CuCl in HCl.
CuCl + HCl --> CuCl2 + H
So now after we let the silver chloride and gold foils settle, we can decant the CuCl2 solution, Which is clean enough to use as a new batch of copper II chloride leach (CuCl2) (miss-named acid peroxide leach, or AP on the forum).

Now back to or FeCl2 ferrous chloride solution if you reread this post from the beginning you can see where the ferrous chloride solution (FeCl2) can be oxidized back to the ferric chloride FeCl3 to leach more copper or iron...

____
Now we can get some other iron products, or byproducts, from these iron solutions with the methods above, iron solutions can hydrolyze and with oxygen can form some insoluble iron oxides or hydroxides in solution, or precipitate from solution. Strong heat can accelerate this. One of these can be a red Iron powder (red rouge powder) (a form of rust), that will not dissolve in acids (even aqua regia)...

4 FeCl2 + 4 H2O + O2 <-- --> 2 Fe2O3 + HCl
Or
heated too strongly
FeCl2 +H2O +1/4 O2 --> 1/2 FeCl2 + 2HCl

6 HCl + Fe2O3 + Fe --> 3 FeCl3 + 3H2O

6 FeCl2 +3/2 O2 + H2O --> 2 FeO.OH + 12 HCl
Then
4 FeCl3 + 8H2O --> FeO.OH +12 HCl
FeCl3 + 3H2O --> Fe(OH)3 + HCl

These iron oxides or hydroxides normally do not cause a problem with the gold recovery processes, the red iron powders do not dissolve easily and even gold can be dissolved from the red powder...

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=19816&p=203499&hilit=ferric+chloride#p203499

Here is another place you can use that waste solution, you have been waiting to deal with.

You can use the old waste solution, that old jug of copper chloride that has become more of an Iron chloride (from seeing to much iron in its use)

FeCL3 ferric chloride can etch copper in a two-step process:
FeCl3 + Cu --> FeCl2 + CuCl
Then
FeCl3 + CuCl --> CuCl2 + FeCl2

Silver normally will not dissolve in an acidic Chloride solution, as it oxidizes easily and forms a crust of silver chloride AgCl, which coats the silver protecting it from further oxidation.

But we can put some silver into a solution if we have a very High chloride content:
Silver chloride AgCl is fairly insoluble in water but if we heated it strongly in salt water NaCl (concentrating the solution) we can put some of the silver into the salt solution as silver dichloride soluble in the concentrated brine solution, upon dilution we would again get the insoluble white silver chloride {AgCl2 + H2O --> AgCl + Cl- + H2O} this is the similar to how we get a little silver in our aqua regia solutions.
AgCl + Cl- --> AgCl2



Ferric chloride heated with silver will etch the silver, this iron III chloride solution is aggressive when heated and concentrated, it etches silver plate slowly but effectively, and with plated silver it become very aggressive to the copper under the silver, the concentrated ferric chloride will hold some silver as AgCl2 and precipitate the rest as AgCl, it will also hold a lot of copper into solution as CuCl2 and CuCl, by dilution we can precipitate the CuCl and the little AgCl.

Ag + FeCl3 --> AgCl + FeCl2
Thin plated silver converts to silver chloride fairly easily, thicker pieces of silver can become coated with a protective crust of silver chloride, with this used Iron/ copper chloride solution being heated and concentrated strongly with agitation the silver crust on the silver can become broken loose by the mechanical agitation of the solution (process of the heat and stirring), this can expose fresh silver as the crust is removed converting more silver to AgCl as the fresh silver is exposed, in this many the thicker silver can be converted to silver chloride fairly effectively is one wishes to, it just takes a little longer in the process.

The CuCl white powders can be stored wet, and re acidified in HCl to make an etching solution of copper II Chloride later, leaving the little bit of silver as white powder
4CuCl + 4HCl + O2 --> 4CuCl2 + 2H2O

For the little bit of silver on buss bars or contact arms (silver contact removed) you can dissolve the silver with copper, the heavy bar will still have a lot of copper metal left you could sell as copper metal (you will dissolve a good portion of the copper weight though), for thin silver plate it will dissolve all of the copper.

Ferric chloride will also dissolve iron into solution if needed.

Do not expect to get much silver from buss bars, or from plated silver.

When your done with your waste solution, treat it and dispose of it properly, for those who have not studied how see dealing with waste in our safety section

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=11890&hilit=ferric+chloride

Kovar, An iron compound with about 54% Fe, 29% nickel, 17% cobalt, and traces of silicone, carbon, and manganese, usually used where they need strength or a springy metal.

Beryllium copper is another alloy used, where they need a spring metal or where strength or stress may prove a problem for the softer copper metal, where non sparking may be needed, or a non ferrous metal is needed, beryllium copper can have about 0.5% to 3% beryllium, and many time cobalt and nickel are part of the alloy.

Kovar with all of that iron is much more magnetic than beryllium copper, or the copper pins with a tiny bit of the weakly magnetic nickel plating under the layer of gold.

A strong magnet may attract the nickel, where a weaker magnet would not, and where the weaker magnet would only attract the iron in the Kovar.

If the copper is hard and springy, I would suspect beryllium, pure copper is fairly soft (will cut easy with a knife), and bends easily
In electronic scrap you will find these metals used where they are needed to better perform a function, or are needed to insure reliability, pins that may bend easy may use the stronger Kovar, contact may use beryllium to insure good contact, or for its springy nature, or to strengthen the pins from being bent out of shape by plugging in or unplugging connections…


This is a hard subject to explain but I will try.
Reuse of old copper II chloride leach that has become loaded with iron, and can actually become an iron chloride or and iron/copper chloride solution.

First lets look at what happens when we use our (AP) copper II chloride to dissolve Iron, we convert the copper II chloride CuCl2 (cupric chloride), to FeCl2 (ferrous chloride) and copper metal powders.

CuCl2 + Fe --> FeCl2 +Cu

Our solution during this reaction may actually have several copper and iron chloride salts involved before the above reaction is driven to completion.

Now once we end up with iron II Chloride FeCl2 (ferrous chloride) we normally think of our (AP) or copper II chloride as spent or waste, because FeCl2 is just about useless to attack copper.

But we can use this old spent leach solution to dissolve base metals, and actually we can reuse it to dissolve a heck of a lot more copper (not as FeCl2 but we can get FeCl3 from this solution).

Lets look at some iron chemistry to set up this discussion.

If we dissolve Iron (Fe) in HCl we can make ferrous chloride.
Fe + 2HCl --> FeCl2 + H2

This FeCl2 ferrous chloride will not readily attack copper.
But if let the acidic FeCl2 (ferrous chloride) set exposed in air for a long period of time it will absorb oxygen and oxidize to ferric chloride FeCL3.
4FeCl2 + O2 + HCl --> 4FeCl3 + 2H2O
we can speed this oxidation of ferrous chloride (FeCl2) to FeCl3 (ferric chloride) by adding about equal volumes of 3% H2O2 solution.
2FeCl2 + H2O2 (3%) + 2HCl --> 2FeCl3 + 2H2O

I have also found just strongly heating the solution also help it to absorb oxygen especially when the solution is concentrated.

Now Ferric chloride FeCl3 is a great etch for copper metals, hot concentrated solutions heated to a thicker solution, help to convert silver to silver chloride the heavy brine solution helps to remove the silver chloride crust that forms, gold is not attacked but plated gold will flake off as copper underneath is attacked.

Ferric chloride is used to etch copper circuit boards, just the same way the copper II chloride leach we call acid peroxide is used, the main reason to use CuCl2 cupric chloride leach over the ferric chloride leach to dissolve copper is the ease of which we can rejuvenate the cupric leach for reuse, in a copper cycle.
we can also rejuvenate the Iron chloride leach, but it is not as easy to get the copper back out of the leach.

I have stumbled on a way to use the ferric chloride leach (our old spent copper chloride leaches), by reusing my waste solution to dissolve base metals.
And actually make a copper II chloride leach from the copper I chloride powders in the process.

First we need to look at the two-step process of using ferric chloride FeCl3 to etch copper.
FeCl3 + Cu --> FeCl2 + CuCl
then
FeCl3 + CuCl --> FeCl2 + CuCl2
notice in the first part of reaction we can form CuCl, and later in the reaction the CuCl is oxidized to CuCl2, as the FeCl3 is reduced to FeCl2.
And in the second part of the reaction we end up with both iron and copper chlorides in solution as FeCl2 and CuCl2.

If we stop this above reaction in the middle we can separate most of the CuCl and let the concentrated solution cool and settle to powders of CuCl, AgCl and Au foils.
Returning most of the FeCl2 to the main reaction to help dissolve more copper as it picks up air (or we can add a little H2O2 to convert the FeCl2 back to FeCl3...

This is what I tried to explain in the post above.
Where I said:
I reuse this solution to dissolve copper and base metals.

Actually it become more of an iron chloride, if strongly heated you will be amazed at how much copper you can dissolve with this old used (AP leach), the iron chloride will dissolve pounds of copper in a corning dish on a hot plate when the solution get thick brown, decant a portion of the leach into a cooling jar there most of the copper will settle out as copper I chloride (a brown powder, unless diluted with water which will turn it white as acids are diluted) after settling you can return iron chloride liquid back to the corning dish to dissolve more copper,

The copper I chloride powder washed with a little water will give a white powder of copper I chloride this rinse liquid you can add back to the heated corning dish above to dissolve more copper.

This leaves you with the white copper I chloride powders, with some HCl add this dissolves and becomes copper II chloride, which can be used, as you know to dissolve copper, and if you had silver or gold on the copper you were dissolving above, you will be left with gold foils or silver chloride powders after adding the HCl.

So here we get our CuCl back to make a new CuCl2 leach solution (acid peroxide leach), we concentrate our old iron chloride solution (to treat for waste) giving us less waste to deal with.
And dissolve pounds of copper from things like contact points with chunks of copper that were cut from the relay or motor contactors, or gold foils from copper brass or iron pins...

Reusing a solution that was once considered a waste solution, to do more work dissolving pounds of copper, collecting a useful copper I chloride we can make into a fresh copper II chloride leach, and collect silver and gold, while reducing the left over waste solution to deal with.


viewtopic.php?f=60&t=19838&hilit=ferric+chloride


Make your post simpler And I may tend to read them more often. instead of just scanning over them.


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