# GOLD in SAND refining



## Anonymous (Oct 3, 2009)

Some of the particles float when panning, so I am looking for a quick way to get the gold from all the other useless stuff.

We did pan a few pounds of the sand and ended up with black sand then removed anything attracted to a magnet. We are left with a black sand with LOTS of gold like particles. We have a few pounds of the black sand and need to learn the best way to refine this sand to get the gold from all the other crap. We did keep all the runoff etc cause some gold flakes did seem to float since they are pretty small.

Will melting w/borax suffice? What will happen to the other metals? Will they mix with the gold and mess up the quality?

Would the salt bath method work? I have an anodizing shop and have a similar setup already up and running.

Aqua regia is OUT OF THE QUESTION.


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## Anonymous (Oct 3, 2009)

please do not double post.

thanks
jim


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## Anonymous (Oct 3, 2009)

james122964 said:


> please do not double post.
> 
> thanks
> jim



Different forum. Plus you didn't really answer my questions in the other thread...just confused me more.


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## Rhodium (Oct 3, 2009)

DBLNUP said:


> james122964 said:
> 
> 
> > please do not double post.
> ...



Different forum, same post = double post. 
We scan all the post here so we will see it no matter where it is.

Give it a little time. Welcome to the forum.


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## Rhodium (Oct 3, 2009)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5588&p=48066#p48066

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4485&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=2090&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=2003&start=15&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=


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## manorman (Oct 3, 2009)

first thing is find out if it's gold floating, collect a few of the floating flakes, take a pin or sewing needle and push it in the flake it it breaks
it's not gold, it could be pyrite or mica.if it is gold you have lots of options to try and recover it, flotation, shaker table, leach, panning.
The Gold you get in nature is not pure gold,it still needs to be refined to get a high quility pure gold, but there is nothing wrong recovering 
nice native gold, you can keep it sell it or have it refined, good luck.
P.S. you might try Jet Dry and not dish soap, gold will float on the bubbles in dish soap.

Mike


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## Anonymous (Oct 4, 2009)

I have what looks like gold ore...crushed obviously. I don't see much "native gold", but just alot of shiny stuff that seems to be crushable. There was iron in the mix, and with some of the rusted pieces seems to be little banks of tiny gold particles.

I tried melting it (with a plain old propane torch) and just ended up blowing any particles away...haha, whatever I got lots more where that came from. There was alot of fumes, which were really BAD and STRONG like lead oxide which leads me to believe there is probably alot of other metals in the mix.

Maybe this is not gold?

I tried heating one larger chunk which looked like gold...which was not maluable but more brittle, anyways when I heated it on a peiced of glass it let off fumes and then turned a dark color on the outside and once crushed was silver like on the inside...like platinum. Also for some strange reason there was a trail opposite side of the torch....the trail was a silver color, and looked very pure whatever it was(thin layer of mercury? I have no idea) it was easily rubbed off and left a nice silver shine on the tool I used to scrape it off the glass.

Am I dealing with something other then gold? The sand was owned by a man who used to do geological whatnots to find gold and now lithium. It is generally understood that the sand SHOULD contain gold but the bags are not marked. I think the bags were straight from the rock crushers from one of a few surface mines that company now owns and mines. The bags were sent off to get analyzed, but there is obviously alot of bags left.

Does this sound like gold ore? Or pyrite? Cause I don't see any soft gold in this sand...but it sure is shiney after panning.


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## Anonymous (Oct 4, 2009)

What leeching method would be best for this type or ore?


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## Oz (Oct 4, 2009)

DBLNUP said:


> There was alot of fumes, which were really BAD and STRONG like lead oxide which leads me to believe there is probably alot of other metals in the mix.



Be real careful heating raw ore with a torch as arsenides are often present and old mining sites often have mercury. You do not want to poison yourself with these gases.


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## Anonymous (Oct 4, 2009)

Oz said:


> DBLNUP said:
> 
> 
> > There was alot of fumes, which were really BAD and STRONG like lead oxide which leads me to believe there is probably alot of other metals in the mix.
> ...



Would this improve after cleaning with HCl?


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## markqf1 (Oct 4, 2009)

Have you considered a fire assay?
What your probably seeing is mica.
Native gold is not shiny, nor does it break apart easily.

This "ore" that you describe sounds like it came from a mill of some type.
This means that your "sand", is actually crushed rock.

If you are familiar with stannous chloride, a simple test can be performed to determine if there is any measureable gold content.

Think small before you think big.

Mark


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## Anonymous (Oct 4, 2009)

I had asked about an assay earlier, the reply made me think no assay has been completed.


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## Harold_V (Oct 4, 2009)

james122964 said:


> I had asked about an assay earlier, the reply made me think no assay has been completed.


An excellent observation, especially considering what is assumed to be gold isn't malleable. 

I wouldn't spend a moment of my time on that material without an assay. What we're seeing is a classic case of gold fever---but hoping for the material to be gold won't make it gold. 

Harold


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## Anonymous (Oct 5, 2009)

You are both right...maybe I could try a stannous(sp?) test on the material before any attempt at recovery is even tried?


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## Harold_V (Oct 5, 2009)

DBLNUP said:


> You are both right...maybe I could try a stannous(sp?) test on the material before any attempt at recovery is even tried?


It is my opinion that a stannous test is a waste of time. Unless you understand the ramifications of testing solutions that have excessive acid contained within, even if you have gold, it won't be evident. It is also a fact that as long as you have a preponderance of base metals included, even if you have gold present, it's entirely possible it will precipitate on the remaining base metals, so your "test" will be pointless. 

I just posted under another of your inquiries. I'm of the opinion that you not only don't have gold, but you are wasting a great deal of time here, trash talking. You are chasing something that most likely does not exist, which could be readily determined by a simple assay. So far, you have turned your back on anything that remotely suggests you don't have gold, allowing your gold fever to dominate what should be your wisdom. I call that reckless and stupid. 

Wise people don't dedicate endless time to a worthless project, they invest enough money to make determinations about the viability. Companies that project production of potential deposits may spend millions of dollars core drilling and assaying before they produce an ounce, yet you are willing to spend any amount of time on something that may not exist. That makes no sense. At the very least, you should have evidence that you have gold, which, at this point in time, it appears you do not. I strongly suggest you pay for an assay. Mean time, stop wasting not only your time, but ours. 

Harold


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## Anonymous (Oct 5, 2009)

I have read alot of your posts Harold and seeing you are from WASHINGTON you live up to the rep of the rest of the people from that state. Around here in "Alberta" anyone with questions will get an honest answer and anyone with some smartass remark probably doesn't have many friends, or should be taken seriously.

As stated in my other thread, the ore was stored with intent and obviously had value to the previous owner who had alot more knowledge about the stuff then we currently do. That is why I am here, asking honest questions to get honest answers, you obviously cannot help us with the ore so why are you in my thread?

You can either help my friend and I try our hand at refining and understanding this more or you can simply F off!

To be honest, one man I look up to most(and has now passed) was deep in the field of gold, was a registered prospector since the fourties and ran a surface mine and made a living off of it. My grandfather. I wish I knew what he knew, but I simply don't. That is why I am here, looking for information and knowledge that I can no longer get from the people I trust.

So either you help me...or you don't.


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## EDI Refining (Oct 5, 2009)

Harold is helping...

You need an assay before going any further, its plain and simple


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## 2002valkyrie (Oct 5, 2009)

You can either help my friend and I try our hand at refining and understanding this more or you can simply F off!

To be honest, one man I look up to most(and has now passed) was deep in the field of gold, was a registered prospector since the fourties and ran a surface mine and made a living off of it. My grandfather. I wish I knew what he knew, but I simply don't. That is why I am here, looking for information and knowledge that I can no longer get from the people I trust.

So either you help me...or you don't.[/quote]



You asked a for educated opinions and Harold V. gave you a very educated one, I'm a Noob but even I can tell that Harold has a whole lot of information rolling around in his noggin, he is a no nonsense kind of guy who tells it the way he believes it should be told and don't candy coat anything. I would take his post serious it is evident he has done this for a long time.


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## jimdoc (Oct 5, 2009)

DBLNUP 
Good luck finding information and knowledge from someone you can trust. Obviously you don't know who to trust. You will probably poison yourself by burning unknowns in your search for the glittery
stuff, but thats OK you will be rich,right?
Jim


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## AKDan (Oct 5, 2009)

Is that a mushroom cloud I see on the horizon? Been awhile since I have seen someone nuk themself that thoroughly on the board.


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## jimdoc (Oct 5, 2009)

I agree.


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 5, 2009)

*ASSAY! ASSAY! ASSAY! ASSAY! ASSAY!*


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## jimdoc (Oct 5, 2009)

If someone told him he needed some special chemical to get his gold that cost ten times what an assay would, he wouldn't think twice on trusting that person. He is just dillusional. He won't listen to sound advise, and doesn't understand who the best people to get it from are. Jim


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## Oz (Oct 5, 2009)

DBLNUP,

Using your own words…



DBLNUP said:


> You can either help my friend and I try our hand at refining and understanding this more or you can simply F off!



Then you go on to say…



DBLNUP said:


> anyone with some smartass remark probably doesn't have many friends, or should be taken seriously



Think for a moment about your own words.

You came to this group of strangers asking for help. You had the right to follow the advice that you felt had the most merit. If you chose to ignore the advice of an assay there are those here that would have probably still helped you had you been respectful. Sadly I think you have lost that opportunity now. I say sadly because you may not be aware that what you wish to do is particularly hazardous when dealing with raw ores because more often than not raw ores contain toxins that can poison and kill you depending on your choice of process. An assay is very important for that reason, not just for determining values or how to get full extraction and not leave behind half of your possible values in your material. Gold has little value to the maimed or dead.

Everyone one here is entitled to but one thing, respect. Nothing more or nothing less. Once they have shown they cannot give respect, they also lose the right to receive it.

If you wish help, I would suggest you recognize your own behavior and apologize in a way that it is clear to others you mean it and have the decency to back it up in your future posts. Without that you will find that even with an assay in hand you have alienated those that could help you the most. 

Oddly enough the man you have chosen to slander is one of the most respected here, for good reason. Harold has given literally hundreds of hours of his time while in his retirement from many years of professional refining to give advice for free to others just for the love of the art. Stranger still is that I have seen him deal with verbal abuse like this in the past and yet give the individual a second chance if they seemed genuine.

I do not care who you are, that deserves respect.

At this point if you do not see the need for anything short of a sincere apology then you would be only wasting your time staying here as well as ours.


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## Anonymous (Oct 5, 2009)

Simply saying refining this ore would be "worthless" is worthless in itself. The only informative thing you said was to get an assay, all the rest was sh|t. Admin or not, your opinion was mostly egotistical and rude.

Way to power trip! I've seen you do it in a few threads...Congrats you are a pure arse!


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## jimdoc (Oct 5, 2009)

Bye


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## Anonymous (Oct 5, 2009)

jimdoc said:


> If someone told him he needed some special chemical to get his gold that cost ten times what an assay would, he wouldn't think twice on trusting that person. He is just dillusional. He won't listen to sound advise, and doesn't understand who the best people to get it from are. Jim



Did I say I wasn't going to do it? It's like this whole thread has been overrun by people who have burnt too many braincells inhaling fumes like wtf?

I have never had an assay, nor do I even know the process, All Harold said was to get it done...and that for some odd reason I'm wasting my time either way...and that the ore is worthless. Did I ask anyone to tell me that? no.

I have seen other OLDER threads in this forum, with pictures and the like with the same damn material that I got (though obviously not the "same" just similar), and for some reason they got honest straight forward answers, and most of what I hear from all of you is I'm dillusional and a moron. For asking for advice? Get real.


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## Oz (Oct 5, 2009)

jimdoc said:


> Bye



I tried to give him a way out above, yet all I see is more name calling and yet he is wondering at the same time why he is not getting help the way “he” wants it.

So I would have to agree with Jim. He does not seem to understand that it may be a good idea to at least be polite to those he wishes help from.

I second the motion. We do not need this here.


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## Anonymous (Oct 5, 2009)

Oz said:


> jimdoc said:
> 
> 
> > Bye
> ...




Actually the only one with a decent answer was Irons(in my other thread). How about you consider that I know next to nothing about assaying, nor did I even know the value of one. If all I did was roll up in your threads, start shouting out that you are a moron, are wasting your time, that your material is crap, and then fed you some more crap would you listen to ANYTHING I had to say?

Now do you understand why I didn't give a rats hole about what Harold said? Tell me you understand...or is this whole forum just an American ego trip?


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## Noxx (Oct 5, 2009)

jimdoc said:


> Bye



I second that.


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## jimdoc (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks Noxx, from everybody I am sure.
Jim


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## AKDan (Oct 5, 2009)

Is it a waste of time to even respond to this thread? Especially given the fact that it is obvious to anyone that this character is not capable of following a reasonable, well thought out, and helpful response such as Oz just provided? 

Undoubtedly, but I am going to anyway.

There are a number of clues in the information provided thus far that the chances of this material being discussed is materially worthless. What the bags are saying to me is that they are grab samples, but from where, under what conditions, and for what purpose?

Prospecting, a person will find material that they are interested in for what ever reason that strikes them at the moment. Come back to the same material tomorrow and you might not even give it a second glance. However, since you are at that moment interested you take a sample and put it in a bag. The location from where the material was taken, bag number if several are taken, general notes on the sample, and most likely the suspicions of what the material contains or consists of are written down and kept with the sample. Any geologist type, as it was stated earlier that the person who stored this material was, worth his salt pretty much follows the procedure. Were there any notes or scraps of information with the samples? None has been mentioned thus far in this embarrassing excuse for a discussion. The likelihood of them being grab samples that were just haphazardly taken seems high to me if there is not any documentation to go with them.

So, a pile of bags were found in a locked room, in a locked basement. I keep my basement locked too. Not because I have piles of gold filled bags hidden there years ago. Most people keep their “space” secure, and every one of them probably has their own reason for doing so. Have you moved all the bags yet? Maybe he was using them for ballast to keep his house from flipping over? Maybe he has them covering a hole in the floor or the wall where the REAL goodies are? Who is going to move a bunch of bags of dirt just to see if something is under them? Maybe that is where is porn stash was secured?

There are multiple people on this forum that are more than capable of performing at least a rudimentary assay on this material. One just is starting a business now to specifically perform just such a service, for just such a person as you DBLNUP. Very likely for a more than reasonable charge, like maybe free, or the cost of shipping and some materials, or just to be able to help someone who might have gotten luck with an interesting windfall.

At this point in the process you have started here, I wouldn’t touch your material, not for any price or any fee. As soon as I told you it was barren, I would immediately be branded by you as a liar for some reason you would come up with. You obviously know nothing of what you are doing, but just as obviously know more than anyone else who you interact with. That is sad for you on too many levels to even get into it.

Lastly, just by the way you shotguned your way into the forum, you seem to me to be a shill of some type. The things you say and the way you piled in are just not right somehow. The sole purpose of your visit here seems to have been to cause a disruption. Certainly, it was not for help, or knowledge. Certainly, I have just wasted 5 mins of my time.


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## AKDan (Oct 5, 2009)

Wow, a lot happens when you are away typing furiously :lol:


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## Anonymous (Oct 5, 2009)

This is for Harold.

The picture does it no justice, this is it crushed and panned, then crushed and panned again.






Here is the same vial next to a rock from my grandpas surface mine, I believe it is just a pyrite vein.





Worth an assay or no? And sorry for being rude but I was pretty riled up from harolds remarks about the stuff being worthless. And whoever PMed me about the assay if you see this message PM me and you can have this vial for assay, I just need to know cost thanks! But now from what I have heard from these threads an assay is the obvious choice.

Like I said, I'm sorry for being a jerkoff but that's just how I roll when someone dissrespects me, I'll be good from here on out cause this forum has lots of good info and can probably help me after the assay is complete. You can ban me, but I have a non-static IP and lots of emails so I'll only just come back for more. Noxx. :evil:


Edit: BTW, the sand was from Northern B.C and the rock with the pyrite is from northwest Ontario. The mine from which the rock came from had lots of pyrite, but obviously also gold. Both materials are very similar.


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## jimdoc (Oct 5, 2009)

Nobody will help you now. 
You are on your own.


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## Anonymous (Oct 5, 2009)

jimdoc said:


> Nobody will help you now.
> You are on your own.




Speak for yourself.


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## AKDan (Oct 5, 2009)

At this point, he is speaking for himself, and likely anyone else with the knowledge to have acutally helped. Harold is not your big problem any longer.


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## Anonymous (Oct 5, 2009)

AKDan said:


> At this point, he is speaking for himself, and likely anyone else with the knowledge to have acutally helped. Harold is not your big problem any longer.



Funny how that works. Obviously my opinion no longer matters, nor do I care to change any of yours. I was rude to whoever was rude to me...done and done.

/thread


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## jimdoc (Oct 5, 2009)

Your being rude to Harold is the same as you being rude to all of us.
Jim


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## markqf1 (Oct 5, 2009)

Go away Kumar,
You have shown your true colors.
Let this be a lesson to you.

Mark


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## Oz (Oct 5, 2009)

KUMAR said:


> I'll be good from here on out cause this forum has lots of good info and can probably help me after the assay is complete.



Then…



KUMAR said:


> You can ban me, but I have a non-static IP and lots of emails so I'll only just come back for more. Noxx. :evil:



You do realize that Noxx OWNS this forum?

You keep trying to make enemies of those that can help you. Everyone here is indebted and beholding to Noxx for starting and hosting this fine forum. He was also very instrumental in attracting the fine talented individuals we have here that help all for free, of those Harold was the first.

I will say for your benefit and others that pyrites are one of the most likely ores to contain arsenides that can easily poison or kill you if processed incorrectly.


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## Lou (Oct 5, 2009)

You've got a non-static IP? Lots of emails?

So essentially he's threatening us?

*We have answers for that.* My advice to this fellow is to either leave, or keep quiet and read.

You had the option of apologizing and assimilating and having people (possibly) help you.


Wasn't it Ghandi who said "an eye for an eye and the world will soon be blind"? Your quid pro quo with people who likely know better will get you nowhere.

You've got more than several things you can do with that material to determine if it is gold and how much. All of that and more is here, but you'll get no help from me when you disrespect another moderator, and foremost a friend. I like to hope that people will learn how to think here, not just follow recipes in a monkey-see, monkey-do fashion.


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## Rhodium (Oct 5, 2009)

KUMAR said:


> You can ban me, but I have a non-static IP and lots of emails so I'll only just come back for more. Noxx. :evil:




Dam, I always seem to miss the good stuff. I've been watching him since the beginning. :shock: 

Non static Ip hugh, Well good thing for me that don't matter. I'll just take the system down instead of your Ip address. 

You need to watch who you piss off. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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