# If I wanted a gearbox



## anachronism (May 3, 2017)

Guys

Some food for thought and a suggestion. 

Can I get you input please? It seems that lately people come here and ask for a solution to an issue however advice is given before any relevant questions have been asked. 

To use an analogy- if I posted "I need a new gearbox for my car" the first thing to ask would be "what car do you drive" whereas currently I would almost expect someone to be recommending a particular gearbox without even asking that question.   

Another analogy- going to the Doctor and saying "I have a pain" and being prescribed a particular medication without even knowing where the pain is.

People are having to correct their advice in some case and that doesn't look fantastic, so does anyone agree that we should be more proactive in checking and quantifying before advising? Or am I seeing something that isn't here?

Jon


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## g_axelsson (May 3, 2017)

Totally agree!

Just asked for an assay in another thread. Let's see if there is any advice given before the original poster gives an answer.

Göran


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## snoman701 (May 3, 2017)

I think it depends on how the answer is constrained. For example, "dilution and cooling of a pregnant ar solution by 1:1 solution vs water is generally in your best interest prior to filtering so that silver chloride precipitates out and is filtered prior to precipitation of gold". 

An answer like this constrains the variables....whereas just saying dilute it out leaves a lot of details to the original poster. 

When you go to the parts store for your gearbox...they have a script that they ask every customer. This then gets more detailed as needed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## silversaddle1 (May 3, 2017)

Are you wanting a 4 speed or 6 speed?


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## anachronism (May 3, 2017)

silversaddle1 said:


> Are you wanting a 4 speed or 6 speed?



I'd prefer an 8 speed sequential please Sir.


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## kernels (May 4, 2017)

If you were a member of a forum for a very particular car, then asking for a gearbox recommendation is not unreasonable. The other forum members will assume that the gearbox is for the make and model that the forum deals with and give you their advice based on their knowledge or experience.

The critical step is actually missing on your side of the transaction, and that is that you have to realize that the information you get is worth exactly what you paid for it.


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## kurtak (May 5, 2017)

kernels said:


> If you were a member of a forum for a very particular car, then asking for a gearbox recommendation is not unreasonable. quote]
> 
> WRONG answer :!: :!: :!: (& goes directly to the point Jon is making)
> 
> ...


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## kernels (May 5, 2017)

kurtak said:


> I know that example is a bit exaggerated - but the point (that Jon is trying to make) is that all to often we see these same kind of (new member) all to basic questions asked with (assumed) answers given - when in fact - the first answer should be a QUESTION to find out more details
> Kurt



:lol: Touche, that was slightly exaggerated, but still an enjoyable read! To be fair, from my limited experience, when I do give some basic advice, it is usually after asking a bunch of questions!


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## UncleBenBen (May 5, 2017)

anachronism said:


> Can I get you input please? It seems that lately people come here and ask for a solution to an issue however advice is given before any relevant questions have been asked.



Jon, I have to say I've noticed similar. But not quite. Bearing in mind I'm but a wee peon in the world of refining, the issue I've noticed more often is that advice is given before any relevant questions have been answered.
In that I can easily see how folks can get even more confused than they already are, with coming in with the old YouTube education and all.

But, at least they have found their way here. And I reckon that counts for something. Specially if we can keep them alive long enough to see their first button!! :wink:


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## nickvc (May 6, 2017)

The real problem is how can we force people to frame the correct questions when they have no or little idea of exactly what the question is they are asking or what the responses mean. 
I know the old read Hoke and use the search function seems uncaring but in honesty it helps newbies to be able to ask proper questions and understand sensible replies, I try to help as do the other active members and mods but there is a limit to how much time anyone can spare so to get a basic understanding reading Hoke and understanding what she says and means is a good way forward and means questions and answers are framed so all can understand, if members cannot be bothered to read and learn then they usually do not last long as they get bored or banned for been aggressive to those trying to point them in the right direction, as I repeatedly state as do others it's all laid out here on the forum and it's free, you hust have to do some of the work yourself.


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## snoman701 (May 6, 2017)

nickvc said:


> The real problem is how can we force people to frame the correct questions when they have no or little idea of exactly what the question is they are asking or what the responses mean.
> I know the old read Hoke and use the search function seems uncaring but in honesty it helps newbies to be able to ask proper questions and understand sensible replies, I try to help as do the other active members and mods but there is a limit to how much time anyone can spare so to get a basic understanding reading Hoke and understanding what she says and means is a good way forward and means questions and answers are framed so all can understand, if members cannot be bothered to read and learn then they usually do not last long as they get bored or banned for been aggressive to those trying to point them in the right direction, as I repeatedly state as do others it's all laid out here on the forum and it's free, you hust have to do some of the work yourself.



Sensible replies can teach one how to ask a proper question though. Jon is good at this reply, and takes the time to explain the reason for asking the details he does.


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## upcyclist (May 8, 2017)

You're right, Jon. I probably do this more than I realize, and I know I do it less in the jewelry world, so I thought about it and came up with a decent answer. 

On the boards, I can say whatever I want with no appreciable fallout. In jewelry, it's usually someone who knows my name asking me if I can do something. If I commit to an answer too soon, I can find myself losing a significant amount of reputation, if not money and/or labor. Example: someone says "can you resize my ring?" Well, that depends. What's it made out of, are there stones, which stones, do you want it bigger or smaller, etc. These all determine if it's a 15 minute job, a 4-hour job, or outright fantasy ("oh, you have a titanium ring...").

So on here, we should answer questions like there's money, time, and/or personal reputation on the line.


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## rickbb (May 9, 2017)

If by gearbox you mean a transmission then you might get some answers.


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## anachronism (May 9, 2017)

rickbb said:


> If by gearbox you mean a transmission then you might get some answers.



Noes, NOES!! Talking English man not American.  8)


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## 4metals (May 14, 2017)

> It seems that lately people come here and ask for a solution to an issue however advice is given before any relevant questions have been asked.



I think that members asking for advice often do not provide enough details for a decent answer, and the answer that naturally flows next is to read Hoke. That answer, while sometimes deserved, is used all too often. I feel it is not unusual for us to ask for more details before answering with specifics, and when the poster exhibits a lack of comprehension, then, reading Hoke is the proper advice. 

We have scared off too many questions and have members who resist asking for fear of being criticized. That is our bad, we do currently give properly detailed questions good answers, we need to work on the detailing end and how to encourage those details.

As for Jon, maybe you should read "the Greasemonkey' guide to Gearboxes" and all of your questions may be solved!


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## Shark (May 14, 2017)

> We have scared off too many questions and have members who resist asking for fear of being criticized. That is our bad, we do currently give properly detailed questions good answers, we need to work on the detailing end and how to encourage those details.



I have to admit to being one of those who are uptight about asking questions on this board. On occasion a post becomes so intriguing that I can't resist, but it is not very often.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 14, 2017)

Shark said:


> I have to admit to being one of those who are uptight about asking questions on this board. On occasion a post becomes so intriguing that I can't resist, but it is not very often.



Why?!

Curiosity is one means of progression. Yes, curiosity killed the cat... But, allegedly, they have 9 lives, and I would like to assume that the next 8 lead them to a better grasp of what NOT to do, to avoid getting skinned again. (lot of idioms in that idiotic paragraph...sorry)

I think the main issue with a lot of the newbile questions, is that the basic foundation of understanding is lacking, so any answers -no matter how elegantly put forth- is like explaining inorganic chemistry reactions to someone that is completely unfamiliar with them.(...oh, wait.. :roll: )

Is Hoke referred to too much? yes, but only because that is one of the few places to get that general level of understanding, to where the answers put forth can actually do some good, instead of causing more confusion. Which leads to a longer walk that is hand in hand..

Questions and conversation between peers is what keeps this forum alive. But, I guess the dilemma that arises with that last sentence is: how far must one go, and learn, to be a "peer"?, especially when there so many brilliant men that have been here since the forums birth (or close to it). 

I could probably continue to study every single day for the next 20 years, reading every forum thread, and buying and reading every refining and metallurgy book I can get my hands on, but I still wouldnt even come knee high to Lou, 4metals, gsp and many many many others..

But, I can refine gold.. I can refine silver.. ..although, personally, that isn't good enough for me.. Because I WANT to know more, and I want to be better.. Sometimes that is done best by just conversing with those who have done it before me. And this is a place where refiners help refiners... So, I guess each of us has to find our own way, and get comfortable enough with ourselves too.

But where is that fine line in the sand though?


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## Lou (May 15, 2017)

There's no substitute for just doing it. And doing it meticulously so that when (not if) something doesn't go as planned, at least you can look at your notes and try and eliminate parameters that are not at fault.

Then, when you're proficient at something, but want to have it mastered, you do the same approach--meticulous notes and then you can eliminate parameters that are less important and focus on controlling the most important parameters. It becomes especially important when dealing with PGMs which have each their own quirks. 

Theory is useful but no substitute for just doing it. Can read all the books, can read all the posts, but until you've seen it and done it then it's not the same. Sometimes struggling through something is the only way something is learned. That's how I learned.


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## 4metals (May 15, 2017)

Shark,



> I have to admit to being one of those who are uptight about asking questions on this board.



This statement surprised me, I remember you were a valuable contributor when we started the smelting thread. That is an example of something you knew little about and learned from the forum and had some success. It's input like that from members who actually try the methods that make help this forum the valuable learning experience that it is. 

If I remember correctly you were the one casting copper anodes in a cast iron corn cob shaped mold. Now that is unique and it's that type of thought and MacGyverism that makes us unique! You can't get that from a textbook. How is that smelting going for you? Why don't you post an update on the smelting thread?


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## Shark (May 15, 2017)

Thank you for your comment 4metals, that is much appreciated. And as Lou stated, I like doing the little experiments, most often quietly in the background. That is how I seem to learn things the best these days, hands on. The smelting thread is a great example of a thread that I just couldn't resist getting involved in. There are health factors that have held me back that I would prefer not to go in depth on as well. I am currently waiting for a date to have a surgery done, the 7th in the last 2 1/2 years. That doesn't count the various other minor procedures I have had to have done. It makes involvement in some threads seem a waste of time when the more knowledgeable can be helping others who can potentially benefit more in a long term sense. That is just the way I do things in order to be able to deal with some of the health issues. That does not mean I don't enjoy following along with others posts needing help, or trying to learn, I very much do enjoy it. I would prefer to watch the new people get the help they need right now. I can wait until later, if I run into problems with some planned projects, when things calm down around here.


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