# Pros and Cons - Electric Melting Kiln/Furnace vs Torching



## soforeal46

Hi Everyone!

This is my first post and I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this great forum. I don't think I've read/studied this much material since college (and loving it also)! You all are a great inspiration to me and I am very thankful that you guys are willing to share and help people from all over!

I've done a lot of research, searching/reading all the topics in regards to electric melting kilns/furnaces.

I am a small hobbyist (thanks to you guys)! I've successfully done the AP process on fingers and made my first electrolytic stripping cell (Thanks Steve for the equipment)! I'm now washing a lot of my gold powder and the next step will be to melt it. I was wondering what the Pros and Cons are for an Electric Melting Kiln/furnace (like the one below on "fee-bay") vs Melting using a torch (Mapp/Oxy&Acc).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-OZ-3-kg...482 pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6bab68d2

I only ask because (be prepared to laugh), I have a phobia dealing with torches and the possibility of blowing up a canister of gas (maybe I've watched too many movies). I know safety is # 1 (hence my paranoia) so just wanted to see which is a safer method and most cost effective.

When it comes to the reliability of these electric melting furnaces, are they fairly stable? Do the graphite crucibles break often? I've also heard both sides that they do/don't take much electricity?

Any input would be much appreciated and again, really thankful you guys are around!


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## goldsilverpro

They aren't cheap. I hate those type furnaces and wouldn't use one again if it were free.


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## rusty

soforeal46 said:


> Hi Everyone!
> 
> This is my first post and I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this great forum. I don't think I've read/studied this much material since college (and loving it also)! You all are a great inspiration to me and I am very thankful that you guys are willing to share and help people from all over!
> 
> I've done a lot of research, searching/reading all the topics in regards to electric melting kilns/furnaces.
> 
> I am a small hobbyist (thanks to you guys)! I've successfully done the AP process on fingers and made my first electrolytic stripping cell (Thanks Steve for the equipment)! I'm now washing a lot of my gold powder and the next step will be to melt it. I was wondering what the Pros and Cons are for an Electric Melting Kiln/furnace (like the one below on "fee-bay") vs Melting using a torch (Mapp/Oxy&Acc).
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-OZ-3-kg...482 pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6bab68d2
> 
> I only ask because (be prepared to laugh), I have a phobia dealing with torches and the possibility of blowing up a canister of gas (maybe I've watched too many movies). I know safety is # 1 (hence my paranoia) so just wanted to see which is a safer method and most cost effective.
> 
> When it comes to the reliability of these electric melting furnaces, are they fairly stable? Do the graphite crucibles break often? I've also heard both sides that they do/don't take much electricity?
> 
> Any input would be much appreciated and again, really thankful you guys are around!



Your angels are looking over your shoulder the furnace has been removed from ebay.


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## Harold_V

I think I'm the only guy that dislikes those furnaces more than does GSP. Maybe some night he and I should get together with a fifth of scotch and determine which of us hates them the most. 

Don't buy one. It isn't necessary, it is not convenient--crucibles are very expensive and live a short life (graphite, which burns away rapidly, especially if you intend to melt gold). 

Have respect for bottled gasses, just as anyone should. Do not fear them. Handle them properly and they're very safe. Handle them with disregard, yeah, you can get in trouble. That's especially true of bottled acetylene gas---which self detonates above 14½ PSI. You'll notice the full redline on acetylene gauges. 

As you suggested, stay away from nonsense movies. 

Harold


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## dtectr

A guy jumps out of an airplane, counts to 10, pulls his ripcord and nothing happens. anxiously he pulls his auxiliary ripcord, still his parachute fails to deploy. 
As he plummets to earth, he suddenly sees a man flying UP in the air towards him! As they pass each other the parachuter yells, "Hey - do know anything about 'parachutes?"
The other yells back, "No - do you know anything about 'welding gases'?"
always treat your torch outfit like you would your parachute and you'll be fine.


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## soforeal46

Thank you all for your replies!

Yes, after more research, I agree that in the long run, it is more effective to buy a torch due to the following reasons.

- Replacement of graphite crucibles (like and Harold says) and was also told that after 10 heavy uses, it would most likely break.
- The likeliness of the equipment breaking (finding parts or sending in for repairs would be a pain).
- The cost of the machine is not cheap.
- Must factor in the electricity costs

Buying a torch would be the fraction of the overall cost.

The only thing that "seemed" appealing would have been the convenience of "setting and forgetting", but the above would outway the benefits (if any).

Thanks for the supporting words everyone! I will get over the fact that the gases will explode on me.


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## dtectr

Don't get TOO "over it" - a little healthy fear/respect can keep you on your toes. It's when you get over confident/-relaxed that most accidents happen. 
Establish a protocol that you follow religiously each time you use your torch. This will give you a sense of security, as you will KNOW everything is ok, since you followed protocol to the letter.


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## Harold_V

To be clear, you need not fear crucible breaking. They don't do that, because the part that burns away is the top, rendering them useless. The portion that fits inside the body of the furnace is shielded adequately from exposure to oxygen that it is much slower to degrade. 

If the furnace you have in mind is the type with a handle, the entire furnace is picked up and tilted to pour the molten charge. Therefore, you don't have to handle the crucible in any way, as it remains in the furnace at all times. An insulating cover is a part of the furnace, but it doesn't have the ability to eliminate oxygen. That's the problem with that type of furnace. By sharp contrast, melting dishes are not made of graphite, so they don't burn away. If treated properly, they will function for a large number of heats, with little wear or erosion. Get a decent (welder's type) torch and a set of bottles and you'll be set for the long haul. 

Do keep in mind, the larger the bottles, the more economical they are to have filled. Also, if you have natural gas at your disposal, you have no real need for acetylene, which is rather expensive. You can run oxy/acet torches on natural gas with excellent results, so long as you aren't attempting to weld. 

Alternately, you may wish to investigate the purchase of a Hoke torch, which can be procured from almost all jewelry supply houses. They're less expensive, and should be adequate for your needs unless you process large volumes. 

Harold


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## soforeal46

Thank you for the clarification Harold! I will be going the torch route.

Dtectr, I will definitely be careful as there's no amount of gold worth my life when being too careless.

My friend has a Bernzomatic BZ8250HT torch that I can borrow, I believe it can use propane and mapp gas. Will that suffice?

I just finished washing my gold below, do you guys think it needs to be washed again? First pic has no flash when taken with my cell phone and the second pic has flash (They are both the same gold, one was just moved over a red background).

I used your washing method Harold and redissolved it twice with HCL/CL and precipitated with SMB.

I can't seem to get it to agglomerate as well as some other pictures I have seen on other posts...


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## Harold_V

soforeal46 said:


> My friend has a Bernzomatic BZ8250HT torch that I can borrow, I believe it can use propane and mapp gas. Will that suffice?


The ultimate is to use a torch that includes oxygen. All of the fuels are acceptable in that case. Propane, alone, can be borderline acceptable. Very slow to accomplish the task. Mapp is a better choice, but, again, oxygen is key to rapid and good success. 



> I just finished washing my gold below, do you guys think it needs to be washed again?


A visual inspection won't really disclose if the gold is acceptable, but the second dissolution should be a good indicator that it's pure. If the barren solution, after precipitating the gold, is clear of color, pretty good chance your gold is quite pure. Also, if you washed the powder well the second time and removed no color in the process, it's likely quite pure. If so, I'd say melt. 



> I can't seem to get it to agglomerate as well as some other pictures I have seen on other posts...


That may or may not be an indication of impure gold. I achieved the very best results when I'd re-refine my gold. Color was outstanding (a very light orange/yellow color I liked to call blonde), and it was always eager to agglomerate. Understand that when I'd re-refine, it was always in volume, so after washing and rinsing I'd filter the gold before placing in an evaporating dish for drying. The compacting in the Buchner funnel, along with the superheating the gold received upon drying yielded quite robust clumps. By sharp contrast, I can recall having gold come down that wouldn't agglomerate at all---and remained a fine powder, even after washing. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the quality---which most likely will improve as you gain experience, anyway. 

Harold


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## soforeal46

Thank you for your response Harold!You've helped me out greatly in completing the last part of the process!

I just bought a oxy acetylene torch, unfortunately Lowes sold me it without Oxygen in the Oxygen tank! I did not want to drive all the way back... I used the MAPP torch I had instead.

I want to say THANK YOU to EVERYONE who has contributed to all the many posts I have read over the months.

Finally, my VERY FIRST button. 5 Grams and it's so pretty. Thank you all again! :mrgreen:


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## kuma

Hello Soforeal , how are tricks?
I hope your well!
I just wanted to congratulate you on your first button , I bet that feels good in your hand! 8) 
Nice work chief , 
All the best for now , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## philddreamer

Good job, Sofo!!! 8) 

Phil


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## butcher

soforeal46,

Very impressive, only 4 posts and big beautiful gold button in your hand you refined yourself. You sir are a shining example to follow, looks like the work of studying is profitable.

Nice work.


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## kuma

Hi all , how are tricks?
I hope all is well!


butcher said:


> Very impressive, only 4 posts and big beautiful gold button in your hand you refined yourself.


For sure , makes me feel slack!  :lol: 
Nice work again chief 8) 
All the best , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## soforeal46

Kuma, Phil, Butcher (and many others)!

You guys are to thank! I've read so many posts from you guys!

If gold buttons had souls, this first one I've made definitely has parts of you guys in it!

Thanks for the congratulations! There's still so much to learn from you guys!


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