# Where there is No Nitric Acid at all..



## realtechedo (May 14, 2017)

How best can I recover my gold foil only from CPU pins with sighted solder where there is no Ntric Acid to form aqua regia to either dissolve pins?


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## Lino1406 (May 14, 2017)

A/P, acid/peroxide dissolves copper, like nitric acid. Also base metals,


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## g_axelsson (May 14, 2017)

Lino1406 said:


> A/P, acid/peroxide dissolves copper, also base metals, like nitricn acid


Most CPU pins are made from kovar or other iron alloys, there is no copper there.

I use hydrochloric acid, heat and time to dissolve the base metal in CPU pins.

Göran


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## realtechedo (May 14, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> Lino1406 said:
> 
> 
> > A/P, acid/peroxide dissolves copper, also base metals, like nitricn acid
> ...



What I really want to achieve is getting the gold foils from the cpu pins without dissolving them together and then proceed to refining the foils with hcl+bleach. So will boiling the cpu pins with hcl discard the solders and base metals, leaving me with only the gold foils?


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## jonrms (Oct 23, 2017)

ok after reading this. Since We cant produce aqua regia due to the lack of Nitric Acid LEGALLY in the UK. I read the above post... What I am interested in is the following. 

Base metals... IE below copper???

How about Silver?

Will it just leave gold as flakes and not dissolve the gold into a powder form which is what I am looking to do after further filtration. 

Thank you in advance. I hope this sounds as appropriate as it does in my own head :shock:


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## FrugalRefiner (Oct 23, 2017)

jonrms said:


> ok after reading this. Since We cant produce aqua regia due to the lack of Nitric Acid LEGALLY in the UK. I read the above post... What I am interested in is the following.


You'll find a lot of "work arounds" here. If you can get sulfuric acid (car battery acid) and a nitrate like sodium nitrate or potassium nitrate, you can make nitric acid. If you want to make aqua regia, you can add one of those nitrates to HCl and you'll have poor man's aqua regia. You can search for those terms and find more information.



> Base metals... IE below copper???


Most of the base metals are above copper in the reactivity series as shown in your chart. Things that are lower in the chart are lower in reactivity. Things that are higher in the chart are higher in reactivity.



> How about Silver?


Silver does not dissolve in HCl, though if there is an oxider present, it can form insoluble silver chloride (AgCl).



> Will it just leave gold as flakes and not dissolve the gold into a powder form which is what I am looking to do after further filtration.


One of the workaround processes is commonly known as AP, A/P, acid peroxide, copper II chloride, or CuCl2 process. Search for any of those terms for details.

Read through the Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum thread. It will help you get off to a good start here. Be sure to follow lazersteve's Guided Tour.

Dave


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## jonrms (Oct 24, 2017)

Thanks Dave.. I can distill nitric acid but it's illegal so let's skip that .. Aqua Regis hmm if I produced if quick enough then I won't be holding nitric acid. Ps4 just kidding. 

Yes plenty if other combinations just need to ensure I have the right safety measures in place.... Just was a quick reply


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## nickvc (Oct 24, 2017)

If you have your gold in fine foils or in powders you really do not need to use nitric, gold will dissolve readily in Hcl and bleach or Hcl and hydrogen peroxide, nitric or nitrates are only really needed when you are working with karat scrap or when you need to dissolve base metals and gold such as gold brazed cpu lids and of course when refining silver.
There are many clever work around processes here on the forum which use easily sourced chemicals but which for the amateur or home refiner work well, if a little too slow for the pros or those working with larger volumes.


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## jonrms (Oct 25, 2017)

Nick I never said thank you. :G


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## Simon007 (Oct 27, 2017)

Jonrms you can get a license to purchase nitric, nitric isn't illegal in England, it's illegal to have it above 3% without a explosive precursor license, you can apply for a license from the government, the other option if you want to stay legal, is poormans aqua regia, a nitrate salt and hcl

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## jonrms (Oct 27, 2017)

I know Simon. I have no worries but 3% ? I was under the impression when I first started with everything I would require 60 something percent. Which seemed very dangerous. Hence poor man's Aqua Regia. I am just running through the set up and safety. As well as acquiring all the chemicals I believe to require. Heck I just found out that Acetone is a precursor. I buy this and have been using this for over a decade. I make my own pens and more often than not I prefer to make my own pens blank with resin. A change from wood and I can be creative. 

I surrendered my FAC or FIREARMS licence due to breaking my lumbar spine. Character tests will be a cake walk. I am still a Range Officer and instructor. 

I am doing this on a purely HOBBY basis. Like most things I hope this doesn't turn out to be a waste of money like the rest if my hobbies. But right now and for the past year it's given me a chance to rip things apart and collect gold items. Then u found this site. 

I don't mean to seem or come across as a smart a55 but I hope the members know I appreciate ALL their help. I am now setting up over my work bench my lab. I have a large 8 x 16 garage/ workshop that I am using. Ok a couple of my other toys are there. But I have shelves storage box etc. Will fireproof and chemical safe area. I still have alot of work.. and I will be gathering knowledge whilst still collecting stuff and building my setup.


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## Simon007 (Oct 27, 2017)

Well yes 3% isn't very strong, hence why the government are allowing you to have it! It's the terrorists fault, they make bombs out of the stuff, or make rocket fuel or whatever, but it's us that suffers, I mean are terrorists going to abide by the law? Of course not, its easy enough to make, poor man's is just as dangerous, it creates nox fumes just the same as nitric acid so be careful, my cousin is a range officer and instructor! Small world! Well if you want to do this legal, get a licence, you just need to apply, the police vet you and they get in touch with your doctor, and check you don't suffer with depression or are suicidal etc. You will loose money, you will make mistakes, but if your wanting to make lots of money, you need a lot of electronics, I assume that's what your ripping apart? I do it for several reasons, 1, I love chemistry, 2, I hate all the waste we generate so my little bit of recycling helps me! And 3, I work as a maintenance engineer and work shifts so this is my spare time hobby!

Keep reading and be safe.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## nickvc (Oct 28, 2017)

Jon whatever you do move any other items out of your workshop before you use any chemicals or you will regret it, all metals will rust in hours, have a separate area to do this as the fumes can be corrosive at best and highly toxic at worst :shock:


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## jason_recliner (Oct 29, 2017)

Hi Jon, and welcome.
Just to reiterate Nick's warning, you don't want anything metal, that you want to keep, anywhere near your refining station. 

You are refining in a garage so picture this. You have a bucket of acid and a paintbrush, or better yet an air gun. Brush or spray acid all over every metal surface you can see and do your best to include those you can't. If your car is there, don't forget around the wheels and under the bonnet. If it's a steel garage, don't forget to lovingly coat the walls. And the light fittings.

This is exactly what these acids' fumes will silently do. You can't see the fumes but they will corrode _everything_; let me assure you that is a truth.


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## jonrms (Nov 1, 2017)

I agree. I have a Compton's concrete garage... the metal parts are the beams and the doors. 

However still well ventilated... that is not enough.. Hence why I am going to bore a hole through the side of the wooden facia for the vent extraction. The work surface will be wood but overlaid with fireproof insulation and then heavy glass. The Fume hood will be fully enclosed. I will only work with one thing at a time and then ensure the waste is neutral before I put it in a bucket.. My thoughts. 

But I am on hold because I my friend who knows a heck of a lot more than I do on chemistry .. as its his job at a undisclosed location!!!!! is helping me. And as I am disabled from a lower spinal injury I cant do lifting. I need someone there to support me in this project. at least for the first few times and my confidence builds. He has a major concern that Potassium nitrate and HCL are a no no. I done some reading and it seems I missed out on adding Sulphuric acid. But I am not doing anything for now until he goes over a lot with me and checks. His main concern is the potential for rapid reactions and or a explosion. which I DONT want. So I am waiting.. He is making a trip after work tomorrow to visit after he grabs all my materials, and puts them on his list which will help in Storage. Safety first.... Then what can be mixed together and what Cant. etc. 
Well I will keep you all posted. He thought that I was really collecting the gold for years for the heck of it... and having fun ... which it was but I want the Yield.. and I want bars as I already possess a actual bars of Gold and Silver bullion. I have a website that deals with this only. Refining my old bullion was a thought years ago when I started that site but its only for collectors and savers.... so I deal with whats fake and what's genuine. How to spot purity etc. Using Nonmagnetic slides and Gold or Silver Acids.... To me nothing too dangerous.. Obviously don't get acid on my skin... well I will keep you posted. I might have my project pulled if he thinks its unsafe... bare in mind we used to shoot, Scuba dive, Parachute and fly together... what more danger is there? Rhetorical question I am aware there are plenty... and this might be the most dangerous thing I am attempting.


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## gcdrummer02 (Nov 2, 2017)

Deplating cell?


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## Topher_osAUrus (Nov 2, 2017)

jonrms said:


> .... I will only work with one thing at a time and then ensure the waste is neutral before I put it in a bucket.. My thoughts.
> No, use a stock pot system... Trust me. Trust Hoke..
> Trust the forum..
> 
> .... He has a major concern that Potassium nitrate and HCL are a no no. I done some reading and it seems I missed out on adding Sulphuric acid. But I am not doing anything for now until he goes over a lot with me and checks. His main concern is the potential for rapid reactions and or a explosion. .


Uh... Yeah, In a chemistry book I have it says its dangerous to mix bleach and muriatic acid, but, that is a reaction we use often. Mixing another oxidizing agent, like nitric, with HCl can also be bad. So, how can we control that? 

Easy. Only adding small additions of the nitrate and allowing it to work on dissolving the metal until exhaustion before adding more. 
-this will do many beneficial things, like keep you from being wasteful, from having to denox before precipitation, from having a runaway reaction, from creating immense clouds of NOx, and I'm sure a lot more that Im omitting by quickly typing this out.

Your friend could have a phd and 20 other letters behind his name, but hydrometallurgy isnt like most chemistry (it is, but it isnt), it's more art and finess, and having a grasp on what the reactions are, what the products are, and knowing what issues can and do arise. More importantly, how to prevent them or alleviate them when they are encountered.

How to do all that?
Well, ...reading... 

Thats pretty much it, numero uno on the list of things to do... There is a "situations to avoid" thread, that will have a much more practical (to refining) list of things to stay away from. But...

Read Hoke, do the acquaintance experiments
(I know, we arent shoving that Bible in peoples faces anymore...but, what else can we have them do to get familiarized with the trade.. Oh, I got it)
Read CW Ammen "Recovery and Refining of precious metals"
Or
Loewen, or... Yeah, those are the best ones I have for beginners to become well versed in the vernacular and processes(as well as dangers)

Also, read the 250,000+ posts here, see what problems others have encountered and how they fixed it... Learn from the hive-mind, dont make the mistakes on your own from thinking you know better, (Its a lot steeper learning curve that way- -take the easy route instead, afterall, its just reading and taking notes,...thats not too difficult)


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## jonrms (Nov 2, 2017)

I dont know better. I thought that was written very clearly. The fact that u am using a friend who works in a laboratory all day with dangerous chemicals might be a SMART and SAFE thing. 

Damn people take offence to some daft stuff.

I put on the brakes to ensure MY safety. And I get crap thrown at me. I say I want to do something and again more crap.

No pleasing anyone on here. I am not asking how to or other daft questions. Sorry if you feel inadequate. 

I am preparing for safety and safety first. Before one thing goes in a glass container I am hoping that I covered all I could to prevent a accident.


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## anachronism (Nov 2, 2017)

jonrms said:


> No pleasing anyone on here. I am not asking how to or other daft questions. Sorry if you feel inadequate.



Actually we don't feel inadequate. Not in the slightest. You're in the best place to learn about your chosen hobby and frankly you seem to second guess everything that people try to help you with. I can't speak for anyone else but you're annoying me a lot with your attitude. If you want people to help you I suggest you realise you're at 101 level here and show some good grace that people are giving you their time. It's their choice whether to help or not.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Nov 2, 2017)

jonrms said:


> .
> Damn people take offence to some daft stuff.
> 
> I put on the brakes to ensure MY safety. And I get crap thrown at me. I say I want to do something and again more crap.
> ...



I take no offense to anything you have said, really, ...I have better things to concern myself with. 

But, it appears my words, yet again, seem to have been misconstrued. 

I wasnt throwing crap at you, just simply trying to get you prepared for the wave of crap thats going to be beating down the walls of your ivory tower,. Which will inevitably happen if you just follow the advice of one man, and/or a few youtube videos.

Eh, I dont really think I feel inadequate. Maybe I feel entitled... Maybe a little narcissistic. Or it could be a bit of a god complex,... heck I dont know much about the soft sciences, since I choose to focus on the tangible. 

So, I guess I could say I feel enlightened. Only because of this forum.

Dont throw away a good thing


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## nickvc (Nov 3, 2017)

Chill out and listen to what your are been advised, the mods, regular contributors and the silent members have witnessed several members choose to ignore sage safety advice from experienced refiners some of whom we know had a very poor outcome, some just vanished whether through failure or more serious reasons we do not know.
No one here is paid to help or advise most do so to help, it can seem that we are picking on new members but in truth we are trying to stop them making some of the mistakes we have made or some of the dangers we have placed ourselves in, usually unwittingly or through ignorance of the risks.
Yes virtually every process has risks from dissolving metals to precipitating your values to working with strong acids and even worse strong bases which is why we try to get memebers to read and study as much as possible so they can understand the processes and potential risks, many of our most successful refiners are those that joined and read for a year or more and didn’t post until they started their first process, everything you need to know is here, it’s up to individual memebers to decide if they want to put the effort in or not, if it’s a no then expect very little help from most of the experienced refiners they simply don’t have the time to hold new members hands through each step of every process.


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