# Concept For Keeping Sulphuric Stripping Cell Cool



## kuma (Mar 3, 2012)

Hello all , how are tricks?
I hope all is well!
I was reading a thread earlier today (http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11122) about the Sulphuric (Sulfuric) stripping cell , and on reading the concerns about heat build-up , it's associated problems , and the dangers of using water to combat it , I was reminded of an idea that I had some time ago about a possible way of dealing with this issue safley.
I would be supprised if this idea hasn't been discussed on the forum before now , but as I've not seen anything resembling it I'll go ahead and share it anyway.
My idea still uses water , or ice water , as a coolant , but this would be pumped and circulated through a hose that had been laid out in such a way as to be able to draw heat directly from the bottom of the stripping cell.
This would negate the need for , and the danger of , exposed water in the immeadieate vicinity of exposed Sulphuric Acid.
It's kind of hard to put into words what I have in mind , so I played with paintbrush for a bit ( 8) :lol: ) , and this is what I have ;




I see several advantages with this idea ;
 * It's a relatively inexpensive & easy build 
 * The coolant (water) can be kept covered and well away from the cell
 * Fresh ice or coolant can be added without the danger of splashing water over and into the cell

Through doing my rough sketch on the laptop I had some other ideas that could potentialy improve the system ;
 * Possibility of using different , and perhaps more efficient coolant fluids
 * Different configurations of coolant hose
 * Different materials for the cooling _tray_
 * Using a sturdy mesh (enameled steel?) for the bottom of the tray to further allow air circulation
 * Incorporation of small fans into the bottom of the tray to assist in cooling ( :?: )

My best guess is as this type of system hasn't been discussed on the forum before (to the very best of my knowledge anyway) , there must be something fundamentally wrong with it , I just can't for the life of me fugure out what that might be , :roll: 
Please feel free to ask any questions and let me know your thoughts on this! 
If it's deemed safe enough and it seems feasable , I'll build a prototype at some point and run some tests with it to see how efficient it is , or isn't. :lol: 
Thanks for looking! 
All the very best everybody , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## Geo (Mar 3, 2012)

you will have condensation build up on the cooling coil/condenser. you could have the coil of copper pipe inside a thin hollow metal box, with holes in the top of the box (say 3/8") spaced 1" to 2" squared and solid bottom and sides. a small cpu fan to blow air into the box forcing cool air out the holes cooling the bottom and the sides of the cell. this will also help in keeping the condensation down. add shims to hold the coil up off the bottom to allow air to blow under the coil.


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## kuma (Mar 3, 2012)

Hi Jeff , how are tricks?
I hope your well!



Geo said:


> you will have condensation build up on the cooling coil/condenser. you could have the coil of copper pipe inside a thin hollow metal box, with holes in the top of the box (say 3/8") spaced 1" to 2" squared and solid bottom and sides. a small cpu fan to blow air into the box forcing cool air out the holes cooling the bottom and the sides of the cell. this will also help in keeping the condensation down. add shims to hold the coil up off the bottom to allow air to blow under the coil.



I was just thinking of using and coiling the wide hose that's used to connect the water pumps inside large aquariums and garden fountains.
I already have one of these pumps still boxed and laying about and this is where the idea came from.
I'm really liking your thoughts on this , and even though I should probably be on my way to bed by now my mind is begining to tick over again , :lol: 
I'm going to have to look into working with copper tubing and pipe bending (ahaa! my mate is a plumber! ) :mrgreen: 
For the hollow metal box would you recomend something like 316 stainless only , or would you say another type of sheet metal could suffice for this purpose? 
There's me thinking of wooden box and rubber tubing , :roll: :lol: 
Thanks for the reply chief!
All the best for now , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## Geo (Mar 3, 2012)

unless you expect spills, i think SS will be a bit much. but sheet aluminum can be cut and bent with little effort. measure the dimensions of the box (without the top). take a piece of aluminum flashing (like that sold in building supplies for roofing) and mark out a pattern. if the cell is a 9" glass dish then the box should be at least 9"X12" on the bottom with the sides being at least 1½". so you will need 2 pieces. one 12"X15" so you can mark the bottom out plus the 1½" on all four sides. you will wind up with a 12"X15" sheet of aluminum with a 1½" square marked out at each corner. cut this square out with tin snips and flatten the edges back out.now you will have the bottom of 9"X12" with a 1½" tab on each side. crease and bend these tabs at a 90º angle up square. you can buy heatless solder for aluminum (like the kind sold to repair aluminum boats) to seal the seams or JB weld. buy some small brackets shaped like L and fasten 2 on each side for the top to sit on. you can also place one on each seam on the tabs to make it more steady. now you can drill holes for the tubing and a hole to install the fan. if you cant find a cpu fan that's 1½"X1½" square then you can make the sides 2" or 2½" to have space for the fan.don't forget the second piece for the top. it can simply be 9"X12".

to bend copper tubing without crimping it, fill the tube with sand and tape the ends to keep the sand in place. tap the tube while filling to make sure its tightly packed. now you can bend the tube in almost any configuration without it crimping. make the bends around a piece of PVC pipe or steel pipe that's been fastened down or held firmly by a friend. after all the bends are made, untape the ends and empty the sand by blowing it out with an air compressor. be sure you get all the sand out, if you start with dry sand there shouldn't be any problem with that.


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## kuma (Mar 4, 2012)

Hello Jeff , how are tricks today?
I hope your well!
Many thanks again for your input on this!
I actualy have some sheet aluminium laying around from building my bar/booth , it would be perfect!
I like the idea of using packed sand to prevent creasing of the copper tubing whilst bending , I never would have thought of that so thank you!
Even if I were never to have the need for something like this cooling thingy myself , it would be a fun build and a tried and tested design could maybe help others who process more material through their cells and have overheating issues.
A while ago I was wanting to build a small ball mill or something else along those lines for crushing and grinding , but since I've discovered pyrolisation this is no longer an immeadiate requirement for me.
This would be something that I can actualy build in my kitchen and test at home , and it won't take up much space.
I have plenty of small cpu fans , I save most of the clean ones (aswell as some led's , switches and small speakers & motors) for my eldest son Jon who likes to experiment and play with them and make up circuits with batteries.
I have plenty of food for thought and a design in my mind , many thanks chief! 
All the very best for now , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## butcher (Mar 6, 2012)

I have not read the posts here yet, but pelter juntions come to my mind, they can be used to heat or cool.
sorry if someone brought them up.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&rlz=1R2RNQN_enUS457&biw=1024&bih=587&source=hp&q=pelter+juntions&rlz=1R2RNQN_enUS457&pbx=1&oq=pelter+juntions&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=1891l9953l0l11125l15l3l0l0l0l0l375l375l3-1l1l0&gs_l=hp.3...1891l9953l0l11125l15l3l0l0l0l0l375l375l3-1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=ebc05c09906f4efd

http://popular.ebay.com/business-industrial-k-z/peltier-thermoelectric.htm


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## AztekShine (Mar 8, 2012)

butcher said:


> I have not read the posts here yet, but pelter juntions come to my mind, they can be used to heat or cool.
> sorry if someone brought them up.
> 
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&rlz=1R2RNQN_enUS457&biw=1024&bih=587&source=hp&q=pelter+juntions&rlz=1R2RNQN_enUS457&pbx=1&oq=pelter+juntions&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=1891l9953l0l11125l15l3l0l0l0l0l375l375l3-1l1l0&gs_l=hp.3...1891l9953l0l11125l15l3l0l0l0l0l375l375l3-1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=ebc05c09906f4efd
> ...



That's really cool I never knew that existed! And a genius idea.


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## Geo (Mar 8, 2012)

the difference is, with the pad, the cooling only happens on the bottom.with what Kuma and i were discussing, cool air will be blowing even up the sides of the cell. as far as convenience goes, the pad is already made and can be used out of the box (no assembly required).


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## its-all-a-lie (Mar 8, 2012)

Im not sure if they would work for this application but i have a few rather large heatsinks with the largest of the 5 being 12 1/2x7 1/2x 2 3/4 inches. the other 4 are 6x 7 1/2x 2 3/4 inches. If anyone needs either or all of these for a cell or multiple cells you can make me an offer on them, i am gonna scrap them if they are not needed here. All of them together weigh around 30 pounds and had 4 of these http://www.sz-wholesaler.com/p/505/518-1/ceramic-housing-for-high-power-devices-146785.html mounted between them. I dont know what they were used for but apparently there was alot of heat generated from them. i can post pics if needed.


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## Marcel (Mar 8, 2012)

Hi Kuma,
You could go to the scrap yard and ask/look for a heat exchanger of a car heating or an aircondition. 
There you have everything nicely set up, wires, maybe a fan, tubes etc. and it´s tight.
Making your own heat exchanger is a task...


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## maynman1751 (Mar 9, 2012)

You could just use an aluminum finned evaporator coil out of a refrigerator. They are designed for heat transfer, already made, no fartin' around. :!:


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## bswartzwelder (Mar 14, 2012)

I too, was thinking of the Peltier cooling modules. Look at MPJA.com 

http://www.mpja.com/Peltier-Cooling-Assembly/productinfo/15312+PM/

These things really work, but they do require another power supply. What could be easier than gluing one to the bottom of your container and plugging it into a power supply. Make sure you mount it right. One side gets hot and the other side gets cold. However, I think you can reverse the hot/cold sides by reversing polarity. I could be wrong on that.


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## kuma (Mar 14, 2012)

Hello all , how are tricks today?
I hope all is well!


butcher said:


> pelter juntions come to my mind, they can be used to heat or cool.





bswartzwelder said:


> I too, was thinking of the Peltier cooling modules.


I've had a brief look at the Peltier modules , and my thinking is that they seem like pretty small units and could essentially restrict the size of the stripping cell used.
I don't know whether or not they would or how much they could restrict cell size , but they're well priced , and they do look like a very cool idea , :roll: :lol: 


its-all-a-lie said:


> Im not sure if they would work for this application but i have a few rather large heatsinks


I appreciate your offer chief , but I think your right , unless one were to go with the Peltier module idea I'm not sure if they would apply for what I have in mind.


Marcel said:


> You could go to the scrap yard and ask/look for a heat exchanger of a car heating or an aircondition.
> There you have everything nicely set up, wires, maybe a fan, tubes etc. and it´s tight.


This isn't something that had crossed my mind , it's something to think about for sure!


maynman1751 said:


> You could just use an aluminum finned evaporator coil out of a refrigerator. They are designed for heat transfer, already made, no fartin' around. :!:


I've also thought about the the coil from a refrigerator before now , Gemma says no ,  :lol: 

With regards to the kind of design that Geo and I were discussing , I had a quick play the other day in my mates lockup with some soft copper pipe and a pipe bender , and I reckon I could make the _bendy pipe bit_ easily enough and in little time.
Apart from maybe the cost of a water pump , I'm thinking something like in my image above could be knocked up pretty cheaply , or even for free.
I could probably have on hand all the materials to build one today if I pushed , I already have a fairly hefty little water pump.

Another idea that I'd had , and bearing in mind I know nothing about refrigerators , was to store the reservoir (small blue type plastic barrel?) inside a small beer-type fridge (you can pick these up for peanuts) and run the coolant / water pipes through holes in the side , sealing the holes around the pipes.
( I'm thinking that this kind of arrangement might also be suited to supplying cool water to a chemical condenser , although this is just speculation as I'm unaware of thier operating parameters , if any [recomended water pressure + temperature ?] )
I've done some research on the net , and from what I could tell it seems feasible to make holes in the _side_ of a refrigerator without causing any damage to the inner mechanics.
It may seem somewhat overkill , but I guess that would depend on how much material you had to process and how long you needed to run your cell for.
It would certainly save on messing about with ice , and I know it gets super warm in some places , :roll: 
What say you guys , is the fridge thing a hair brained idea ?
I've enjoyed reading the responses and toying with the ideas put forth here so far , so thank you everybody! 8) 
All the best for now , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## kuma (Mar 14, 2012)

bswartzwelder said:


> I too, was thinking of the Peltier cooling modules....... One side gets hot and the other side gets cold. However, I think you can reverse the hot/cold sides by reversing polarity. I could be wrong on that.



For the ones that I looked at , this is correct chief , 8)


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## AztekShine (Mar 26, 2012)

kuma said:


> Hello all , how are tricks today?
> I hope all is well!
> 
> 
> ...



I have Heat and AC experience and kno how compression and massive decompression causes cooling . I think it is possable.


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