# Tips for Silver Cement Refining



## FullGoldCrown (Feb 15, 2022)

I am looking for any help or advice for a newer refiner. I have attempted a couple of times to take cemented silver (copper in A-P waste solution), filtering it, drying the product, and then smelting with a MAP Pro torch in a glazed crucible. I keep getting a green flame and smoke, the powder takes forever to melt, and I end up with very little silver or other precious metals. Any tips? Should I not expose the silver cement to air? Should I rinse it more thoroughly? Get a hotter torch (Any recommendations would be most helpful)?

Thank you.


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## Gsracer (Feb 15, 2022)

Can you detail your rinsing procedure.


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## FullGoldCrown (Feb 15, 2022)

Gsracer said:


> Can you detail your rinsing procedure.


Double coffee filters, distilled water in spray bottle, repeated spraying to "push" the filtrate down.


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## Gsracer (Feb 15, 2022)

hmmm, seems to me like your not getting the copper out, so i would guess rinsing is your issue

What i do is decant the liquid, via siphon. Leaving the cement in the jar. Add small additions of clean distilled water. After the cement settles, pour the rinse water through the filter. Then repeat until i am getting clear water. 

VERY important

Once you think the water is clear. Take a small sample of the rinse water and add a few drops of ammonia. If there is still copper present it will turn blue. You would be surprised how clear water can hold copper. If it turns blue keep rinsing until it doesnt.

This is the process i use. In my case i typically process 500 grams of sterling cemented in a 2L beaker. Rinsing takes about a gallon of distilled water more or less. Also note smaller rinses are better than larger rinses.


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 15, 2022)

FullGoldCrown said:


> I am looking for any help or advice for a newer refiner. I have attempted a couple of times to take cemented silver (copper in A-P waste solution)


I wouldn't expect much, if any, silver to be in an AP solution. It's a chloride solution. While silver chloride is minimally soluble in a strong chloride solution like AR, the solubility decreases as the chloride content decreases. So I wouldn't expect to find any significant amount of silver in AP.


FullGoldCrown said:


> filtering it, drying the product, and then smelting with a MAP Pro torch in a glazed crucible.


You're not smelting. You're melting. See A Glossary of Common Terms.


FullGoldCrown said:


> I keep getting a green flame and smoke, the powder takes forever to melt, and I end up with very little silver or other precious metals. Any tips? Should I not expose the silver cement to air? Should I rinse it more thoroughly? Get a hotter torch (Any recommendations would be most helpful)?


A green flame usually indicates copper, which makes sense since AP is actually a copper chloride leach. You should only have precious metals in AP if you use too much peroxide when you start a fresh batch. But once the AP is used for a while, any PMs should cement out on the base metals that are dissolving. The PMs will be in any solids at the bottom of the container.

Dave


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## FullGoldCrown (Feb 16, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> I wouldn't expect much, if any, silver to be in an AP solution. It's a chloride solution. While silver chloride is minimally soluble in a strong chloride solution like AR, the solubility decreases as the chloride content decreases. So I wouldn't expect to find any significant amount of silver in AP.
> 
> You're not smelting. You're melting. See A Glossary of Common Terms.
> 
> ...


Would adding a solution of NaCl help push more of the chloride out?


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## FullGoldCrown (Feb 16, 2022)

FullGoldCrown said:


> Would adding a solution of NaCl help push more of the chloride out?


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## FullGoldCrown (Feb 16, 2022)

I meant: WOuld adding a solution of NaCl help push more the silver and/or PM out?


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## FullGoldCrown (Feb 16, 2022)

Question: What business or source would you recommend for bulk IC chips and/or ram fingers? I would really like to get my hands on some IC and/or BGC chips with actual gold in them.


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## orvi (Feb 16, 2022)

No. Adding chloride make silver chloride more soluble in the end. If you mean silver chloride. Cementation is completely different story. 
With cementation, you cannot get much from the AP spent solution, because there cannot be significant ammount of silver soluble, due to AgCl insolubility.


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