# Coinage, silver,gold & other PM's a question for you all?



## thelearner (Oct 10, 2010)

Hello all,
I understand that this is a *refining forum* but was looking for some help if possible?
*To the Moderators & Owners of this board, appologies if this is in the wrong section or is inappropriate for this board, please delete*

I really cant git to grips with this?
I want to collect silver in any form, and i was looking at collectin it in coinage also, but here comes the dilema?

When TSHTF would a silver "collectors coin" be worth more thank a coinage of the same weight in silver?
If that makes any sense. :?: 

See i cannot understand why collectors who are collecting Silver for when TSHTF or an upturn in the price are collecting "so-called collectors coins" if really they are only worth the same amount as coinage of the same weight??

Its quiet emabarassing  as i cant get my head around it, am i really that stupid :!: and am i missing something???

Also for a newbie ,,where would you proffessionals suggest i look for silver in common everyday items...cheeky i know :lol: 

cheers all


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## Chumbawamba (Oct 10, 2010)

Collectors are paying premiums because of the numismatic value of the coin. They aren't necessarily collecting them for the SHTF days.

Some people think hoarding recognizable coins (such as American Silver Eagles) will be easier to trade because they assume more people will know what an Eagle is and trust it enough to be willing to accept it in trade. However, I saw a video the other day in which a guy showed an American Eagle to various people and asked them if they'd pay him $5 for it. Pretty much all of them were completely ignorant as to what it was. So I don't see this argument as being terribly valuable.

When the S truly does hit the F, most people will wise up real quick and become experts over night on what is and isn't real silver and gold. At least the smart ones will. Lots of scams will be run until people in general get back in tune with real money.

There will always be numismatics, wherein the history behind a coin and its condition will add value to collectors. But until happier times, as far as I'm concerned, the additional "numismatics" value in an economic collapse scenario will be of little importance (except perhaps between numismatists).

Conclusion: buy silver as cheaply as you can, and lots of it.


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## 4metals (Oct 10, 2010)

Another issue is how readily you can cash in your metals. Both gold and silver pure metal bars or coins, like the Maple Leaf in gold, can be traded in one at a time at a published premium. You can sell as many or as few at a time as you desire. You are more likely to be able to complete a sale in cash for a single one ounce Maple Leaf in the $1300 range than a kilo bar in the $42,000 range. 

If your metal can be easily traded, simplified by stocking up on recognized coinage, if the day eventually does come when TSHTF, cashing in will be easier.

It would be interesting to make a list of coinage that could be useful on that fateful day, 

Gold coins
Maple Leafs
American Eagles
Kuggerand
Panda's (these come in all sizes to 1/20th of an ounce)

I'm not sure what Silver coinage would fit the bill. Any suggestions?


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## Fournines (Oct 10, 2010)

For silver I would probably say that 1oz silver bars from well known refiners (J/M, NWT) would be good, and any pre-1964 US currency. Perhaps sterling from the Franklin Mint - though it is way overpriced to buy directly from them.

I would just think "what would I accept from someone else"?


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## thelearner (Oct 10, 2010)

Chumbawamba said:


> Collectors are paying premiums because of the numismatic value of the coin. They aren't necessarily collecting them for the SHTF days.


Fair enough, Yes i can understand that bit now you have explained that to me...cheers



Chumbawamba said:


> Some people think hoarding recognizable coins (such as American Silver Eagles) will be easier to trade because they assume more people will know what an Eagle is and trust it enough to be willing to accept it in trade. So I don't see this argument as being terribly valuable.


Again thank you for explaining this



Chumbawamba said:


> When the S truly does hit the F, most people will wise up real quick and become experts over night on what is and isn't real silver and gold.


Perhaps , all is not lost for me yet?



Chumbawamba said:


> There will always be numismatics, wherein the history behind a coin and its condition will add value to collectors. But until happier times, as far as I'm concerned, the additional "numismatics" value in an economic collapse scenario will be of little importance (except perhaps between numismatists).


Yes this is the point i was trying to get at, as i can understand it as it is now?, For example: an ounce of Gold / Silver in one coin has the same value as an ounce of Gold / Silver in multiples of coins all be it apart from those who will collect the coinage ffrom a collectors point of veiw, is this correct??



Chumbawamba said:


> Conclusion: buy silver as cheaply as you can, and lots of it.


 :lol: Oh this, i will be trying to do, many thnks for you help



Fourines said:


> For silver I would probably say that 1oz silver bars from well known refiners (J/M, NWT) would be good, and any pre-1964 US currency.


Can they be bought from the UK (the bars that is?)
With the coins, i think i may find it realitavly hard to find them here, i think i will have to look at this in more depth, because i dont want to be trying to purchase coins that are rare, i just want the silver, if you know what i mean?



Chumbawamba said:


> I would just think "what would I accept from someone else"?


Yeah i can understand that and it seems a very sensible way of looking at it !! cheers
Thanks for your help and advise



4metals said:


> If your metal can be easily traded, simplified by stocking up on recognized coinage, if the day eventually does come when TSHTF, cashing in will be easier



Again another excellent answere, one that the laymen (me) can understand and appreciate



4metals said:


> It would be interesting to make a list of coinage that could be useful on that fateful day,
> 
> Gold coins
> Maple Leafs
> ...


[/quote]

Yes this is a great idea for novices like me 
Thank you all for your time, help & advice it really is appreciated..cheers all


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## Fournines (Oct 10, 2010)

Also check out http://www.apmex.com/Category/503/Silver.aspx

Their prices are alright, but you have to factor in shipping. Buying in bulk is best.


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## HAuCl4 (Oct 10, 2010)

Of course the timing of all this type of talk means that the metal markets are likely ready for a sizable correction in price. :roll:


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## jimdoc (Oct 10, 2010)

HAuCl4 said:


> Of course the timing of all this type of talk means that the metal markets are likely ready for a sizable correction in price. :roll:



Lately all that means is buyers will see it as a major sale,and buy more.
All the recent corrections or profit taking seem to bounce right back.
I agree that there is a possibility of loosing some money when jumping in when the prices are at such highs.But things don't seem to be normal lately.

Jim


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## Chumbawamba (Oct 10, 2010)

jimdoc said:


> HAuCl4 said:
> 
> 
> > Of course the timing of all this type of talk means that the metal markets are likely ready for a sizable correction in price. :roll:
> ...



Exactly. We're in a secular bull market in the precious metals, but all metals in general. You can expect prices to rise for the next several years. We're still a long ways away from any bubble. When people are lined up around the corner of the gold dealer like in the 1970s then you'll know the bubble mania has arrived.

What is really driving this trend is the debasement of currencies all around the globe. Governments are printing money in order to pay for their deficits or even inflate away their debt. The more money they print means the dilution (inflation) of that currency, so against precious metals the price (in currency, i.e. dollars, euros, pounds, etc.) will go up. It's not that gold is going up, it's that the dollar is going down.

To look at it from a purely monetary perspective in terms of simple supply and demand, as governments print more money, it increases the supply of dollars. The demand for dollars being met by increased supply, any additional supply of dollars in excess of the supply/demand equilibrium will cause the price of the dollar (i.e. demand) to go down. Ergo, relative to other forms of money, such as gold, silver and copper, the price of dollars will go down.

Lastly, since nearly every central bank around the world is simultaneously increasing the supply of their currency i.e. printing money (you may have heard recently that a "currency war" has broken out), gold priced in various currencies is on an upward trajectory. The more they print, the higher the price will go.

More dollars chasing less gold = dollar down/gold up

As far as readily available denominations of silver, I can't think of anything better than US silver coinage and 1oz coins and wafers. A US silver quarter has .18ozt of silver (90% silver). A dime has .07ozt. A silver dollar has .72ozt, and a half dollar has .36ozt. See how that works? It's all proportional.

Here's a page on UK silver coins:

http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/values/bull.html

Many other countries have recognizable silver coinage that I imagine will be in high demand again as everyday money.

Otherwise, one ounce bars and wafers will be like $20 bills are today. You'll probably want fractional silver ounces, which is why US (pre-1965) silver coins are great, as well as nickels and copper (pre-1982/06) pennies.

Here's a great coin I got from my dealer a couple years back. I wish I had more than one:





It's pre-dented so that it can be easily broken into eight ~equal pieces.

Real copper pennies (those minted before the middle of 1982) are now worth about 2.5 cents in copper value. Nickels are above 6 cents. This is a handy website:

http://coinflation.com

As the dollar is devalued, look for base metals like copper and nickel to increase in value (again, in terms of the dollar), and therefore the value of US pennies and nickels to go up as well. I keep telling people to save their nickels and copper pennies because that's what you'll be using to pay for your groceries at your local farmer's market.

The dollar is dying. Start stocking up on metals and real money.


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## nickvc (Oct 11, 2010)

As your UK based go after the old silver coins minted here. Pre 1946 coins are 50% silver and pre 1920 coins are 92.5% silver it's worth trying coin dealers who buy them as scrap to see how much they will sell for in quantity. If you can get copy of the world catalogue of coins by Krause It gives metals ,weights and % of metals from about 1800 onwards, a handy tool for buying metals of known value.


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## thelearner (Oct 11, 2010)

nickvc said:


> As your UK based go after the old silver coins minted here. Pre 1946 coins are 50% silver and pre 1920 coins are 92.5% silver it's worth trying coin dealers who buy them as scrap to see how much they will sell for in quantity. If you can get copy of the world catalogue of coins by Krause It gives metals ,weights and % of metals from about 1800 onwards, a handy tool for buying metals of known value.



:idea: Cheers for that "nickvc,
I have a load of coins that have been given to me by my dad ( who just saved things in general, most of his coins are old pennies the large ones, some shillings, 10p and thrupence) and my late father in law (who was a collector of stamps and coins).
I will be having a good look at those coins throughout this week to see what is there , there are 100's & 100's of them most i think will be of no value?.
Many thanks for your advise mate!

To the following:
nickvc
Jimdoc
HAuCl4
CHumbawumba (looks like a nice coin mate! & ive bookmarked that site mate for reading later)
Fournines (ive bookmarked that site mate for reading later)
Thanks to you all, i have been given very valuable information through this thread and in terms that i can understand :lol: 

Cheers all


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## HAuCl4 (Oct 11, 2010)

Chumbawamba said:


> Here's a great coin I got from my dealer a couple years back. I wish I had more than one:



Do you have any real "Piezas de a Ocho"/ "Pieces of Eight" from the Charles IV and/or Charles V reigns?. If so I'm interested. Please PM.

First time I see a coin like yours. Very nice.

If you really believe your end of world scenario, you'd be better stocking up on guns, bullets, and soap!. You can always trade soap, guns and bullets.:lol:


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## jimdoc (Oct 11, 2010)

These stagecoach bars and coins are cool also;

http://bullion.nwtmint.com/silver_stagecoach.php


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## Chumbawamba (Oct 11, 2010)

HAuCl4 said:


> Do you have any real "Piezas de a Ocho"/ "Pieces of Eight" from the Charles IV and/or Charles V reigns?



I wish 



HAuCl4 said:


> First time I see a coin like yours. Very nice.



I tried finding some on the internet but my search turned up nothing. I suspect this is an old round from the 1970s or 1980s.



HAuCl4 said:


> If you really believe your end of world scenario, you'd be better stocking up on guns, bullets, and soap!. You can always trade soap, guns and bullets.:lol:



But of course. My motto is (in 2 parts):

Gold, Guns, Garden
Silver, Bullets, Seed


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## Chumbawamba (Oct 11, 2010)

jimdoc said:


> These stagecoach bars and coins are cool also;
> 
> http://bullion.nwtmint.com/silver_stagecoach.php



Excellent. I'd seen these before but forgot about them. Thanks for the link.

When I start pouring my own bars and rounds I'll probably make stuff like this.


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## HAuCl4 (Oct 12, 2010)

I want to change my nickname to Chumbawamba. :lol:


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