# Refining chemicals: suppliers



## Lou

Here is a list which was made by a member of the sciencemadness.org forum. It is more for amateur chemists, but many of the chemicals have a great use in precious metals reclamation and refining.

Here is the link; thanks should go to he who took the time to compile this list, Chris Benton.

http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/chemicals/


For us, inorganic chemicals list will be the most useful.


I'm guessing that we'll probably want to sticky this one.


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## skyline27

Does anyone have a source for gallon+ jugs of hydrogen peroxide?


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## Lou

I mentioned in another thread that you may go to the pool supply and buy pool shock that is 27,5% hydrogen peroxide, phosphoric acid stabilized, for about 15 USD. It is a gallon container, Baquacil is the name if I recall correctly.


Louis


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## The Refiner49er

Thanks for the lead, Lou.

I went out today and got a gallon of "Soft Swim" for $16.99- 27.5% material.

Way better than the 3% stuff, from a dilution point of view. I assume that you only add it as it is depleted.

I am also bubbling air through the container while the parts are being stripped, it seems to assist in agitation and reduces the amount of additional H2O2 augmentation.

Thanks again!


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## eutectics

hi, im new to this but i will share way i now from being a goldsmith/jeweller. 

there's a couple of companys i get my chemicals from in england. there jewellery suppliers and carry stocks of most of the chemicals i've read about on this website. at the very least you could buy the gold and _say_ you refind it...

www.cooksongold.com

www.hswalsh.com

hope this helps someone.

[/i]


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## markqf1

That would be like kissing your sister and telling your freinds you had a hot date. :lol: 

Mark


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## Anonymous

markqf1 said:


> That would be like kissing your sister and telling your freinds you had a hot date. :lol:
> 
> Mark


LMAO


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## draftinu

Buy gold and say you refined it? :roll: Is that what we are here for ? :shock: HMMMMMM I DON'T THINK SO! :lol:


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## Anonymous

You can get h2o2 at the beauty supply at 20% to 30% and sometimes I've seen 40%, but usually only in quart quantities.


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## Scott2357

I came across these sources... http://www.cheap-chemicals.com
http://www.americanpyrosupply.com 

Anybody use them before?


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## Husker

Has anyone worked with this company (SQM) for sodium nitrate?

http://www.sqmna.com/aspx/Chemicals/QSodiumNitratePortfolio.aspx


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## LeftyTheBandit

In Canada a good supplier is www.prolabscientific.com they however will not ship to the USA, homeland security I would think.


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## Anonymous

The company that I am with, sells chemicals and labware.
We will ship many chemicals to the USA too.
We have full clearance from UPS.


http://www.pansci.com


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## Shecker

I get all of the chemicals that I can't buy locally from Hi Valley Chemical in Utah. They can be found at www.hvchemical.com.

Randy in Gunnison


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## Anonymous

http://www.chem-distribution.com/

uk supplier will deliver


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## Anonymous

Hi, ive just purchaed a shor refiner, it uses gc salt to hold the gold and a precipitator to bring it back [works well] can any one tell me what they are so i can buy them local rather than the expence of shipping them from the USA
thanks
Les


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## EVO-AU

Shecker: Found your post about Hi-Valley Chem. Found just what I was looking for at decent prices. 

Thanks much, Phill


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## Chumbawamba

I recently purchased 70% nitric acid from a place called ACME Analytical Solutions in Hayward, California. Tremendously nice folks. I paid $24.15 each for four 1L bottles (and since I picked up on will-call there were no additional fees). From what I've been reading recently this is not as great a price as I originally thought it was, but considering I couldn't find it anywhere else (and don't want to mess with making my own presently) I was fine with it. But then now I see in their catalog I could've bought a 2.5L bottle for $38.75. D'oh! I'll chalk it up to experience. At any rate, I'll use the home-made HNO3 or the poor-man's AR recipe for general recovery and save this expensive stuff for final refining as it's lab grade.

Here is ACME's online catalog:

http://acmeas.com/catalog.html

They carry a full line of lab chemicals.


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## gold4mike

I just found these people : http://www.gfschemicals.com and set up an account with them. They will not allow me to pick up chemicals from them but do have an "Express ship" option which will cost me $65 from their location near Columbus, OH to me in Marietta, OH. I need some advice, though, since they have many different grades of Nitric.

They list, among others:
Nitric Acid Solution, 1.0 N / $154.40 for 6 X 2.5L
Nitric Acid, Reagent grade, low lead / $159.50 for 4 X 2.5L
Nitric Acid, Superior Reagent ACS / $175.70 for 6 X 2.5L
Nitric Acid, Reagent ACS / $144.50 for 6 X 2.5L

They also offer optional packaging in PVC for a bit more.

Am I correct in assuming that the cheapest choice, Reagent ACS, is fine for simple recovery and refining of e-scrap? I want to buy enough to spread the shipping cost over a larger quantity and don't want to buy the wrong thing! 

Would that choice be 70% Nitric?

If I plan to store it for a year or more should I opt for the PVC packaging? I'll store it in a dark cupboard.


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## goldsilverpro

Chumbawamba,

I'm curious. Why didn't you just buy 2, 2.5 liter jugs for a total of $77. Get a extra liter and pay $20 less.

gold4mike,

The reagent ACS will work fine. It should be 69-71% but ask to make sure. The 70% may also be listed as 1.41-1.42 specific gravity or 42 deg Baume' (Be'). All the same stuff.

I just hate to see both you guys paying so much. You don't need reagent grade. Sure you can't find a place that re-packages technical grade in 1 or 5 gallons.


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## gold4mike

I've done a lot of searching and that is the best I've come up with so far.

I have been making my own Nitric with concentrated battery acid using Lazer Steve's excellent directions. It's just a bit of a hassle to boil down the Sulphuric. It comes down to trying to figure out how valuable my time is. 

There's no hurry to make a decision so I'll keep looking and, if I find a cheaper source, I'll post it here. I know that several of our members are also from Ohio so maybe I can help.

Thanks for the quick response!


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## lazersteve

Mike,
Maybe you can locate some 98% sulfuric acid cheaper than 70% nitric. This would save you having to boil anything down.

Steve


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## gold4mike

As usual, a very good suggestion. I already have plenty of Sodium Nitrate. 

Their website lists Sulfuric Acid anywhere from ".02N to 18N". I remember reading somewhere on the forum that the "N" stands for normal. Not being a chemist I'm not sure how the "N" number relates to percent or strength.


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## goldsilverpro

Concentrated sulfuric acid (about 98%, by weight) is about 36.8N. The Molarity is about 18.4 and the Normality is about 36.8. The 18N, then, is only about 49%, by weight.

In a feeble attempt to put this simply.

*Mole (or, Mol), Molar, Molarity*
If you get an atomic weight chart and look up the atomic weights of all the elements in a chemical's formula, and add them all together, you will have the weight, in grams, of one Mole of that chemical. In the case of sulfuric acid, H2SO4, there are 2 hydrogen atoms, 1 sulfur atom, and 4 oxygen atoms. The atomic weight of hydrogen is 1.008, sulfur is 32.06, and oxygen is 16. Therefore, the weight of 1 Mole of H2SO4 is:
(1.008 x 2) + (32.06 x 1) + (16 x 4) = 98.076 grams

The Molarity is the number of Moles in 1 liter of solution.

Therefore, a 1 Molar solution of H2SO4 would contain 98.076 grams of H2SO4 in 1 liter of solution.

Concentrated sulfuric is about 18.4 Molar. In other words, one liter of concentrated sulfuric contains about 18.4 x 98.076 = 1,805 grams of H2SO4

*Normal, Normality*
I won't go into the strict definition of Normality, except to say that, since H2SO4 contains 2 hydrogen atoms (H2), its Normality is twice its Molarity. Since nitric acid, HNO3, and hydrochloric acid, HCl, both only have 1 hydrogen atom, their Molarities are equal to their Normalities. Therefore, a 1 Normal solution of H2SO4 will only contain 1/2 Mole of H2SO4 (98.076/2 = 49.038 grams) per liter.

When you neutralize sodium hydroxide, NaOH, with an acid, the H from the acid combines with the OH of the sodium hydroxide, to form water, H2O. If you use, for example, HCl, it will take 1 Mole of HCl (36.461 grams) to neutralize 1 Mole of NaOH (40.00 grams). However, since H2SO4 has 2 hydrogens, 1 Mole of H2SO4 will neutralize 2 Moles of NaOH. All this has to do with what is called Normality.

Therefore, 1 liter of 98% concentrated 18.4 Molar H2SO4 will neutralize 18.4 x 2 Moles, or 36.8 Moles of NaOH = 36.8 x 40.00 = 1,472 grams

Confused? I surely could have done this better.


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## Lou

About as well as I could have explained it Chris.


Lou


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## Irons

goldsilverpro said:


> Concentrated sulfuric acid (about 98%, by weight) is about 36.8N. The Molarity is about 18.4 and the Normality is about 36.8. The 18N, then, is only about 49%, by weight.
> 
> In a feeble attempt to put this simply.
> 
> *Mole (or, Mol), Molar, Molarity*
> If you get an atomic weight chart and look up the atomic weights of all the elements in a chemical's formula, and add them all together, you will have the weight, in grams, of one Mole of that chemical. In the case of sulfuric acid, H2SO4, there are 2 hydrogen atoms, 1 sulfur atom, and 4 oxygen atoms. The atomic weight of hydrogen is 1.008, sulfur is 32.06, and oxygen is 16. Therefore, the weight of 1 Mole of H2SO4 is:
> (1.008 x 2) + (32.06 x 1) + (16 x 4) = 98.076 grams
> 
> The Molarity is the number of Moles in 1 liter of solution.
> 
> Therefore, a 1 Molar solution of H2SO4 would contain 98.076 grams of H2SO4 in 1 liter of solution.
> 
> Concentrated sulfuric is about 18.4 Molar. In other words, one liter of concentrated sulfuric contains about 18.4 x 98.076 = 1,805 grams of H2SO4
> 
> *Normal, Normality*
> I won't go into the strict definition of Normality, except to say that, since H2SO4 contains 2 hydrogen atoms (H2), its Normality is twice its Molarity. Since nitric acid, HNO3, and hydrochloric acid, HCl, both only have 1 hydrogen atom, their Molarities are equal to their Normalities. Therefore, a 1 Normal solution of H2SO4 will only contain 1/2 Mole of H2SO4 (98.076/2 = 49.038 grams) per liter.
> 
> When you neutralize sodium hydroxide, NaOH, with an acid, the H from the acid combines with the OH of the sodium hydroxide, to form water, H2O. If you use, for example, HCl, it will take 1 Mole of HCl (36.461 grams) to neutralize 1 Mole of NaOH (40.00 grams). However, since H2SO4 has 2 hydrogens, 1 Mole of H2SO4 will neutralize 2 Moles of NaOH. All this has to do with what is called Normality.
> 
> Therefore, 1 liter of 98% concentrated 18.4 Molar H2SO4 will neutralize 18.4 x 2 Moles, or 36.8 Moles of NaOH = 36.8 x 40.00 = 1,472 grams
> 
> Confused? I surely could have done this better.




All that money spent and all I get are worthless salts. :mrgreen: 

Buy once, pay twice. Pay to dissolve it, pay to neutralize.

It's money out of your pocket. Don't waste chemicals.

Good explanation, Chris.


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## gold4mike

Chris, thanks for the explanation. It's been 34 years since my last High School Chemistry class and I was still able to understand you. I am constantly amazed at the wealth of knowledge on this forum and the generosity of those who are willing to give it so freely.


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## eaglewings35

Steve,
For us Noobs out there, can you please simplify it for us?
Can you give us a list of chemicals we need to go from start to finish (processing e-scraps)
Also, if it is cheaper to make our chemicals, can you include these too?
Thanks


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## Barren Realms 007

eaglewings35 said:


> Steve,
> For us Noobs out there, can you please simplify it for us?
> Can you give us a list of chemicals we need to go from start to finish (processing e-scraps)
> Also, if it is cheaper to make our chemicals, can you include these too?
> Thanks



That information is here on the forum. You just need to find out what you want to process and do a serch and start reading. And find a copy of Hokes to download and read. It will get you a long way.


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## goldsilverpro

eaglewings35 said:


> Steve,
> For us Noobs out there, can you please simplify it for us?
> Can you give us a list of chemicals we need to go from start to finish (processing e-scraps)
> Also, if it is cheaper to make our chemicals, can you include these too?
> Thanks



I hope Steve doesn't mind if I answer this. I would imagine he would give a similar answer. 

Steve has already done all of what you ask. At the bottom of all of his posts, it says, Guided Tour Link. Clicking on this brings you here. Read all on the links that are given. 
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873

On that page, the Reactions List link brings you here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=562

And, the Forum Guide Rough Draft link brings you here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=5604

Everything you want or need to know about processing e-scrap (or, about anything else) can be found in these links. Anything not in these links can easily be searched for. It's all there, somewhere. Once you get a basic knowledge of things, ask specific questions and they will be answered. At this point, your questions are way too broad and would literally take hours to give a proper answer. *To succeed in this, you must do a lot of reading and studying on your own.* 

Go to Steve's website and watch all of the excellent videos he has made. At the bottom of this first page, it gives you the username and password needed to login:
http://www.goldrecovery.us/ 

Also, it is recommended that all new members download and read Refining Precious Metals Wastes by C.M. Hoke. It doesn't involve e-scrap but it will give you the best background possible on the handling and usage of chemicals and their reactions on the various precious and base metals. It's also very easy and enjoyable reading.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=2480

Chris


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## lazersteve

GSP,

Maybe we should require everyone to read your post above before entering.

Great Post!

Steve


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## viktor1984

here are a few suppliers around US:
http://www.gsrobins.com/products/product_list.html look under locations to see if there is a close one to you

http://www.brenntagmidsouth.com/ also click on company profile then locations. they have alot of locations. they sell a minimum order of $200 and i got quoted 15 gallons of nitric acid for $105 that also includes the $20 drum fee
all the above sites sell every chemical possible. i think


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## Mingo

Anyone looking for Sodium Nitrate or Nitric 70% lab grade here is where I get it and they will ship to anyone with no waiver forms etc., (as far as I know)...I had no trouble at all.....http://www.chemical-supermarket.com (DGR Industrial products) Hope this helps.....they actually state they will ship to anyone.
Mingo


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## goldenchild

Mingo said:


> Anyone looking for Sodium Nitrate or Nitric 70% lab grade here is where I get it and they will ship to anyone with no waiver forms etc., (as far as I know)...I had no trouble at all.....http://www.chemical-supermarket.com (DGR Industrial products) Hope this helps.....they actually state they will ship to anyone.
> Mingo



Are you paying $39.95 for 500ml of nitric? If you are you're better off going here http://abprospecting.com/ 37.95 for 2.5 liters.


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## butcher

what is shipping cost? that is what bite's me in wallet.


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## Mingo

If anyone is interested, I just ordered 4 Lbs of KNO3 without anti-cake for $3.50/Lb. from American Pyrotechnic supply. No problem whatsoever.....just don't try to order an oxydizer along with ANY powdered Aluminum. This is Tech grade and should be great for producing my own Nitric.....325 mesh powder......if my thoughts on this are wrong, please advise.....I've always used NaO3, but Potassium should be OK. 
Relevant thread is within this topic post.
-Mingo-


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## franklynvoorhies

is 40$ ok for 1 liter of concentrated HCL?


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## Barren Realms 007

Only if they give you a free jar of vaseline with it.... 8) 

Find a pool supply store if you can or hardware store. My current price is $24-26 for 4 gal.


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## franklynvoorhies

is it concentrated at the pool store?


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## jimdoc

The highest concentration of HCL that you are likely to find, or need will be around 37%.


Jim


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## franklynvoorhies

ok, im looking for pool products is it a shock or clarifier? any 1 know?


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## jimdoc

It is used to adjust the ph in swimming pools,and possibly also for cleaning the pools.
It is in Home Depot,Lowes or other hardware store as muriatic acid for concrete cleaning.

Jim


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## franklynvoorhies

thanks for your help. you guys respond so fast it really makes this forum excellent.


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## Harold_V

franklynvoorhies said:


> thanks for your help. you guys respond so fast it really makes this forum excellent.


There's an excellent gathering of people here, most dedicated to helping others. 

I'd like to make a comment. 

You'll take note as you read the forum that I'm a no-nonsense kind of guy---and I really like to see things spelled out correctly. ("ok, im looking for pool products is it a shock or clarifier? any 1 know?) 

To be perfectly blunt, I am offended by anyone that chooses to use clever dodges for typing correct nomenclature. It has a way of getting skewed by some, so you will be very well served to lose the text lingo on this forum. What ever you have to say, say it plainly and clearly, leaving out all the substitute lingo that is so popular with those that text message. You will be far better served (and received) by following my suggestion. There are those amongst us that won't reply to anyone that presents themselves in less than an acceptable manner. 

I thank you for your kind consideration. 

Harold


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## HAuCl4

I read somewhere that the large refiners were spending from $0.25-$0.50 per Oz to refine gold, and about $0.10 per Oz to refine silver. I guess that for Platinum, etc, the costs will be somewhat higher.

I guess these figures change depending on location, amount of chemicals bought, etc. Does anyone have a cost schedule with the different costs itemized?. I.e.: Chemicals, other supplies (filters, etc.), depreciation of equipment, labor, insurance, electrical bill, waste disposal fees, etc. To really arrive at a realistic figure, and a target for new small refiners to measure against. :?:


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## rhwhite67

Skyline and others. 

I just found a great source for gallons and 32 oz bottles of Hydrogen Peroxide. 
Sally Beauty Salon caries 10, 20,30, and 40% solutions of Hydrogen Peroxide in 32 once bottles and gallon jugs for approximately $3.00 per 32 oz and $14.00 per gallon.

Look for Salon Care Professional 10, 20, 30, or 40 volume clear developer. This is technical grade solution. You do not want the cream one but the solution only. They come in a white bottle with a blue cap and blue and black label.

Works great with Butyl Diglyme as the precipitant for the AU.

Ron


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## goldenchild

rhwhite67 said:


> Skyline and others.
> 
> I just found a great source for gallons and 32 oz bottles of Hydrogen Peroxide.
> Sally Beauty Salon caries 10, 20,30, and 40% solutions of Hydrogen Peroxide in 32 once bottles and gallon jugs for approximately $3.00 per 32 oz and $14.00 per gallon.
> 
> Look for Salon Care Professional 10, 20, 30, or 40 volume clear developer. This is technical grade solution. You do not want the cream one but the solution only. They come in a white bottle with a blue cap and blue and black label.
> 
> Works great with Butyl Diglyme as the precipitant for the AU.
> 
> Ron



Hi Ron,

Do you have a link?


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## jimdoc

http://www.sallybeauty.com/


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## philddreamer

If I may help in clarifying the 10, 20, 40... I was corrected here some months ago when I had the same assumption, that those numbers represent the % of peroxide. That is not correct. I, & another member helped some one else just a few days ago, that had the same assumption. 
Those numbers are not the % of the peroxide, but the volume. 10 vol. = 3% peroxide; 20 vol. = 6%; 30 vol. = 9%; 40 vol. = 12%. 

I just picked up 4 quarts of 40 vol. yesterday @ 2.50/qt.; its on sale!  

Phil

Check in CHEMICAL PROCESSES: Any other alternatives to cutting NOx fumes other than H202? 
Formulas


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## A9johnson

> Go to Steve's website and watch all of the excellent videos he has made. At the bottom of this first page, it gives you the username and password needed to login:
> http://www.goldrecovery.us/



I couldnt find any videos on here... just the shop, FAQ, and forum. could you elaborate please?

thanks i think videos are the most helpful for me.

-Adam


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## lazersteve

In the videos section on the site page select 'Show' in any one of the sections where you want to see the videos and they will become visible.

Steve


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## A9johnson

thanks steve for some reason i didnt think to click home on the website. :lol: lol. very informative videos thanks a lot!

Adam


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## alsetn

Does anyone know an affordable supplier of FeSO4 in the San Francisco Bay Area?

Thanks,
Dan


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## necromancer

skyline27 said:


> Does anyone have a source for gallon+ jugs of hydrogen peroxide?




have you tried your local hydroponics shop??

indoor soiless growing, they should have hydrogen peroxide 30% in 3.8l (1 us gallon jugs) and even types of acids

i used to have a hydroponics garden in my moms yard, but that was long ago.......


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## Jemima

http://www.chemicalregister.com
Manual compilation of chemical suppliers enabling buyers to easily
source manufacturers for price and capacity of commodity and specialty chemicals 
by name or CAS registry number. Site includes new projects, free magazines, 
jobs, news and events.


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## RoboSteveo

Hello everyone, I'm trying to find a source for Nitric here in Canada, and so far no luck. I can find it for sale at jewelry supply companies but they won't sell it to private individuals. Only schools or businesses. I noticed some of the members are here in Canada and was wondering if they could point me in the right direction. Thanks a bunch.
Steveo


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## joem

RoboSteveo said:


> Hello everyone, I'm trying to find a source for Nitric here in Canada, and so far no luck. I can find it for sale at jewelry supply companies but they won't sell it to private individuals. Only schools or businesses. I noticed some of the members are here in Canada and was wondering if they could point me in the right direction. Thanks a bunch.
> Steveo



I don't use it but I know a guy in Montreal That my be able to get some


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## deepholedriller

Hello everyone this will be my first post to this forum. Based on my read in the other topic areas this site seems to offer the kind of knowlage and knowlageable people i need to help me be successful in the refining of gold and other precious metals. That being said I am from Ontario, Canada I have been a scrapper for a number of years and have been colecting E-Waste for almost that entire time. I have built of a decent stock pile of old CPU's, RAM gold fingers and the like, and now that I wish to try my hand at refining some of what I worked so hard to get I am having a problem finding a Canadian source for nitric acid. From what I gather ever since the government changed some of the laws it has been a hard to get commondity. Any help any of you could provide would be welcomed. I dont want my adventures in refining to crash before they even get off the ground. 

Thanks again


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## ericrm

deepholedriller
same probleme here in montreal, if you find someone who is selling to you can you tell it to me,i will do the same for you.
thank you


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## RoboSteveo

Hi all,

After much searching I found Nitric through a jewelry supply shop in Toronto. It's called Lacy's. Only hitch is you have to buy in person with Photo ID. Not really an issue if you are from the city. A bit on the pricey side too.


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## kjt124

Formic Acid

Kind of pulling my hair out a bit finding a good (economic) source for it. Obviously I have found it from chemical supply for no less than $60/L - I can't imagine that I have to pay that much - do I actually need ACS purity if I am using it to make the Sodium Formate reducer for Ag, Pd, etc.?

I've had much luck finding other chemical (pool supply natural textile processing, Home Depot, etc.), but I have yet to find a local source for the formic acid (so I can avoid hazmat shipping).

Anyone have an in on commercially available formic acid (or sodium formate if I have to, although I will have to come up with a good way to acidify it properly if I am not starting with the acid)? I am in Pennsylvania and there is a Brenntag near, but they won't speak to you if you are not a business...


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## etack

TCI America has it for 23.00 1/2 Kilo(500g) ad they are in Philadelphia.

http://www.tcichemicals.com/eshop/en/us/commodity/S0807/

But I really don't see the point in it if you are a hobbyist.

Eric


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## Irons2

Dudadiesel has Formic Acid for a reasonable price:

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=formic


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## kjt124

Thanks guys! True I am a hobbyist, but I have some Pd to reduce and I like the looks of fourmetals' method.


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## Irishpride

Yes iam a newbie!!! and can someone please tell me the chemicals i need and the best and safest process. Thanks!!


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## butcher

Irishpride,

Chemicals for what?

What are you doing or making?

HCl + NaOH --> NaCl + H2O
If you need chemicals to make sodium chloride NaCl (table salt) mix equal molars of Hydrochloric acid HCl and Sodium Hydroxide NaOH (lye or caustic soda).

Joking aside,

You are going to find the chemistry involved is not as easy as you think it is now, there are many procedures you will need to learn and understand, I could write a two page list of chemicals we use, but what good would that do you at this point, you do not know what to do with them, or how to dispose of the toxic waste you would generate with them, you would not know what reactions created deadly gases and be able to protect yourself from them.

It is not real hard but it will take a lot of work to learn.

Download Hoke's book and study it, this gives you a basic understanding.
Study the forum and choose a process learn the procedures involved in that process like mechanical separation and then base metal removal process, then the refining process, memory fingers is a great learning tool easiest and it can give you materials to practice with Hoke's experiments to get acquainted, and learn the testing procedures for metals in solution. 

Read the safety thread and pay close attention to the one dealing with waste, and protecting yourself from fumes (fume hoods).

there are tons more like welcome to new members, and the general reaction list, and the guide to the forum, these are extremely helpful to help you get started.

that is just the beginning of the study's you will need, and I do not want to overwhelm you with home work at this point, but after you have studied this you will only be scratching the surface of valuable information here on the forum.

this is not a quick and easy thing you are wanting to learn, it takes time and patience, and a whole lot of work, the work is fun and rewarding and so is all of the work when one day you finally melt that small gold button of gold you refined and earn with your labor.

Members here are very helpful and will help when you run into a brick wall with your study.

Welcome to the forum I look forward to watching you become a refiner of precious metals


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## wade brenckle

I can't believe the prices that you guys have to pay for nitric, and hydrochloric. I get both for about $50 per 4 1/2 gallon pail. But pickup local. What I can't find is SMB ! Can get sulphur dioxide gas but too much red tape. Anyone got a source for the SMB for me please?


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## butcher

Stump remover can be made from SMB sodium metabisulfite, also called sodium pyrosulfite (stump removers are also made from fairly pure KNO3 potassium nitrate) usually found in garden or farm supply department or store.

Supplies for wine or beer making, sodium or potassium metabisulfate is used to sterilize bottles.

You can always order some SMB from a website store.

If you cannot find SMB you can use copperas to precipitate gold.
Ferrous sulfate (copperas), can be made easily in your lab, it will precipitate gold, or is used to test for gold in a spot plate, I have written several posts on how I make ferrous sulfate from iron from transformer laminates and 10% H2SO4 sulfuric acid to form the bright green crystals.


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## AndyWilliams

wade brenckle said:


> I can't believe the prices that you guys have to pay for nitric, and hydrochloric. I get both for about $50 per 4 1/2 gallon pail. But pickup local. What I can't find is SMB ! Can get sulphur dioxide gas but too much red tape. Anyone got a source for the SMB for me please?




Lol, I can sell you some SMB for about $54 and a hazmat fee!! :twisted: :twisted:


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## Geo

i was buying SMB from Ebay until i discovered i was buying it from Dudadiesel. :lol: they are about 5 miles from my house. i was buying from them on Ebay and waiting 4-6 days for delivery and could have driven 10 minutes and bought it at the counter.


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## AndyWilliams

Geo said:


> i was buying SMB from Ebay until i discovered i was buying it from Dudadiesel. :lol: they are about 5 miles from my house. i was buying from them on Ebay and waiting 4-6 days for delivery and could have driven 10 minutes and bought it at the counter.



That's one of those D'oh! moments.


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## Geo

has anyone ordered from these guys. im really liking the distillation rig.

http://www.sciencecompany.com/


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## kane333

I did a search for this website here on GRF and only one instance came up. Hard to believe that no one has submitted this link in this thread. If you enter the chemical your seeking into the search function at the top of the page, a list will pop up and to the right, you'll see Global Suppliers from all over the world. I've only stumbled on this website the other day. If your at the home page, scroll all the way down. At the bottom of the Home Page, you can find chemicals by CAS Index, Chemical Name, or Company Website. An excellent website if your searching for suppliers of chemicals from all over the world. Hope this helps. 8) 


http://www.chemicalbook.com/ProductIndex_EN.aspx


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## Tinker Terry

skyline27 said:


> Does anyone have a source for gallon+ jugs of hydrogen peroxide?


I get 35% H2O2 at the local garden supply in 5 gallon jugs. it's used in hydroponics. Anywhere they sell hydroponics supplies and equipment will probably have it.


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## Tinker Terry

wade brenckle said:


> I can't believe the prices that you guys have to pay for nitric, and hydrochloric. I get both for about $50 per 4 1/2 gallon pail. But pickup local. What I can't find is SMB ! Can get sulphur dioxide gas but too much red tape. Anyone got a source for the SMB for me please?


Have you tried the local winery? They use it for making wine. Can you substitute sodium bisulphte (99.9%) or potassium meta bisulphite?


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## Tinker Terry

Local hardware store:
Hyrdochloric acid 35% =muriatic acid
Sulphuric acid 94.1% by weight=liquid lightning drain opener (Blue Label)
Garden centre: Copper suphate
Hydrogen peroxide (Hydroponics)
SMB or PMB is sold through your local wine making center


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## Smack

This site was interesting, found it the other day.
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/chemicals/


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## Jaydak

skyline27 said:


> Does anyone have a source for gallon+ jugs of hydrogen peroxide?


I got 50% and as much as you need from hydroponic store in new zealand


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## Platdigger

50 percent? Nice
Just out of curiosity, how much for say one gallon?


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## solar_plasma

Be careful with it! I would not even want to have it near me. If I would have been in refining for some decades, maybe I would even dare to say: there is no place for that high concentrated H2O2 in refining!


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## goldengordnuggets

skyline27 said:


> Does anyone have a source for gallon+ jugs of hydrogen peroxide?



other that the chemical suppliers industrial uniform rental industries like Cintas or GK use it as bleach for unbleachables, you can probable get a drum from them cheaper than a chemical supplier


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## PlainsScrapper

Also, I found that this website 
http://www.sciencecompany.com/default.aspx
has some good equipment, as well as nitric and hydrochloric acids for sale.


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## niteliteone

Does anyone know of a supplier of DMG here in the US that is fair on pricing and will ship it to my home address :?: 
Also what grade or mixture is used with Palladium testing and recovery :?: 
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.


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## FrugalRefiner

Try this guy: zhuykoff's DMG auction

Dave


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## niteliteone

I appreciate the link, but I don't feel like getting on another watch list for importing chemicals from a country we are not in good standing with at the time.


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## justme2

What a great post and learning tool. Thank you.


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## rickbb

I used to be able to get NAOH at my local big box home stores, (Lowes and Home Depot), but when I tried to get some this week it seems the local stores are no longer carrying the 100% version sold as drain cleaner.

When I went online to find a local store that carried the brand I'd been buying, (Roebic), I found more than a few links to news reports of police chiefs across the country asking stores to stop carrying it as it's apparently one of the ingredients used to cook meth. These article's also link HCL, (muriatic acid), to meth labs as well.

I did find some at the local Tractor Supply Co. but I'd bet that as soon as their stock is gone they won't re-stock it.

You can find it online at Amazon and eBay, but at 2 to 3 times the price plus a hazmat shipping fee. So not having it in local stores will not stop the drug addicts, just make it more expensive. And make it harder for the home refiner to get them.


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## necromancer

rickbb said:


> I used to be able to get NAOH at my local big box home stores, (Lowes and Home Depot), but when I tried to get some this week it seems the local stores are no longer carrying the 100% version sold as drain cleaner.
> 
> When I went online to find a local store that carried the brand I'd been buying, (Roebic), I found more than a few links to news reports of police chiefs across the country asking stores to stop carrying it as it's apparently one of the ingredients used to cook meth. These article's also link HCL, (muriatic acid), to meth labs as well.
> 
> I did find some at the local Tractor Supply Co. but I'd bet that as soon as their stock is gone they won't re-stock it.
> 
> You can find it online at Amazon and eBay, but at 2 to 3 times the price plus a hazmat shipping fee. So not having it in local stores will not stop the drug addicts, just make it more expensive. And make it harder for the home refiner to get them.



my local home hardware is also asking for ID when buying these 2 items.


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## JHS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/111710577762?rmvSB=true
This is a source for nitric acid.It is 6 x 2.5L for $220.00
Seems expensive,but if it is the only way you can find it,well there it is.
john
this price changed right after i posted it.It os now 4x 2.5L
for $250.00 plus $30.00 shipping


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## Slochteren

Why is nitric so expensive in the US?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/HNO3-5kg-53-...48?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item4d32a94828

free shipping also


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## Geo

Is that 3,644.12 US Dollars?


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## goldsilverpro

Slochteren said:


> Why is nitric so expensive in the US?
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/HNO3-5kg-53-...48?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item4d32a94828
> 
> free shipping also


That's the equivalent of paying $50/gallon for standard 67% tech grade nitric acid. Since, in the U.S., I'm used to paying $3-$5/gallon for this in drum quantities, that doesn't seem very cheap to me.


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## Slochteren

Compared to drum prices it is expensive, but if i calculate the ebay.com price i come to 25,48 Euro p liter and the ebay.de 12,47 euro p liter (added 15% to the price for the difference from 53 to 67%). inkl shipping.


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## Smack

inkl? Is that a new shipping company?


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## Richard NL

Smack wrote "inkl? Is that a new shipping company?" including→including shipping in price.

Nitric acid 60% 5 Liter=€ 21,45
http://www.polycolor.be/nl/drogisterij/vloeistoffen/?searchbrand=81&cid=79 

Nitric acid53° 25 liter € 48,00
http://www.polymetaal.nl/siteNL/shopnlwork/enter.html?target=dept_259.html&lang=nl

Hydrochloric acid 30% 30 Liter € 51,30
http://www.polycolor.be/nl/drogisterij/vloeistoffen/?searchbrand=81&cid=79

Hydrochloric acid 36% 25 Liter €49,70
http://www.fiers.be/nl/chemicalien/chemicalien-fiers/z/zoutzuur-geconc36-
Or you can try "hubo"a retail chain in do-it-yourself articles, that's what i did.

goldsilverpro, We're (still) lucky we can buy it: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32013R0098

Regards,Richard.


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## Smack

Thanks, I thought that might be an attempt at texting lingo but I'm pretty sure it's *incl*.


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## dannytaki

Hi guys, we can supply refining chemicals at http://www.AllianceChemical.com. Many of our customers have used our chemicals in their refining processes with success. 
We carry these chemicals and more:
Nitric Acid 65%, ACS Reagent Grade 1L $58.00 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)
Nitric Acid 70% ACS Reagent Grade 2.5L $110 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)
6 X 1 Case Nitric Acid 70% ACS Reagent Grade 2.5L $300 + $40 (freight + hazmat)
Hydrochloric acid 32% ACS Reagent Grade 1L $25.00 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)
Hydrochloric acid 32% ACS Reagent Grade 1GL $68.00 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)


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## Lou

http://www.hvchemical.com/chemicals/nitric-acid-70-glass-2-5-lt-rea-acs.html


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## kurtak

dannytaki said:


> Hi guys, we can supply refining chemicals at http://www.AllianceChemical.com. Many of our customers have used our chemicals in their refining processes with success.
> We carry these chemicals and more:
> Nitric Acid 65%, ACS Reagent Grade 1L $58.00 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)
> Nitric Acid 70% ACS Reagent Grade 2.5L $110 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)
> 6 X 1 Case Nitric Acid 70% ACS Reagent Grade 2.5L $300 + $40 (freight + hazmat)
> Hydrochloric acid 32% ACS Reagent Grade 1L $25.00 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)
> Hydrochloric acid 32% ACS Reagent Grade 1GL $68.00 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)



Those prices are just flat out ridiculous - I just picked up 13 gallons of 68% nitric for $100 = $7.69/gallon or $2.03/liter 

I can buy 57% nitric for under $3.00 a gallon but I have to buy it in a 55 gallon drum (I am down to about 3 gallons from the last drum I bought)

I can buy HCl all day long at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, or Fleet Farm for $7.00 a gallon (which is $1.85 a liter) 

Kurt


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## kurtak

Lou said:


> http://www.hvchemical.com/chemicals/nitric-acid-70-glass-2-5-lt-rea-acs.html



Lou

That's about the same price the company I get 57% nitric from charges for their 2.5L 70% 

As I said in my last post the 57% is under $3.00/gallon - but have to buy it in a 55 gallon drum

The 68% nitric I get comes from a different company - comes in a 13 gallon keg (looks just like a beer keg) they also sell the 2.5L 70% but is in the same ball park price

So the 2.5L 70% seems to run about the same ($43 - $48 for 2.5L) 

Any idea on why the price gets jacked up so high on this product :?: 

Kurt


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## Barren Realms 007

kurtak said:


> dannytaki said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys, we can supply refining chemicals at http://www.AllianceChemical.com. Many of our customers have used our chemicals in their refining processes with success.
> We carry these chemicals and more:
> Nitric Acid 65%, ACS Reagent Grade 1L $58.00 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)
> Nitric Acid 70% ACS Reagent Grade 2.5L $110 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)
> 6 X 1 Case Nitric Acid 70% ACS Reagent Grade 2.5L $300 + $40 (freight + hazmat)
> Hydrochloric acid 32% ACS Reagent Grade 1L $25.00 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)
> Hydrochloric acid 32% ACS Reagent Grade 1GL $68.00 + $27.00 (freight + hazmat)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those prices are just flat out ridiculous - I just picked up 13 gallons of 68% nitric for $100 = $7.69/gallon or $2.03/liter
> 
> I can buy 57% nitric for under $3.00 a gallon but I have to buy it in a 55 gallon drum (I am down to about 3 gallons from the last drum I bought)
> 
> I can buy HCl all day long at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, or Fleet Farm for $7.00 a gallon (which is $1.85 a liter)
> 
> Kurt
Click to expand...


Kurt do some more checking for your HCL. I can get it around here for less than $5.00 /gal., check with smaller stores or pool supply store. #0% savings adds up over time.


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## Lou

That's not where we get it from, just an illustration. I just have used them for small quantities of ACS grade which is just technical grade that's been redistilled.

I think our costs vary quarterly but 67-70% stuff is about $1.30-1.50/ gallon delivered in 330 gallon stainless totes.

Muriatic (31.45%) in totes is a little less, about a 90 cents or so


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## kurtak

Lou said:


> I think our costs vary quarterly but 67-70% stuff is about $1.30-1.50/ gallon delivered in 330 gallon stainless totes.



I just haven't hit the point were I get the REALLY BIG BOY price cut yet :lol: working on it though :mrgreen: 



> I just have used them for small quantities of ACS grade which is just technical grade that's been redistilled.



So its the difference between ACS & Tech grade due to cost of redistilling - that's what I thought 

Kurt


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## kurtak

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Kurt do some more checking for your HCL. I can get it around here for less than $5.00 /gal., check with smaller stores or pool supply store. #0% savings adds up over time.



The smaller stores around here have always been around $7.00/gallon - I used to be able to get it from the store's I mentioned for about $3.50

Then about a year & a half ago it started literally flying off the shelf as fast as they got it in stock --- I think what happened was there was a "rash" of other local guys thought they were going to jump into this & get rich quick - but when they found out it was not easy & not a path to getting rich quick their dreams were short lived - I personally knew of two guys & heard rumors of a few more - for about 9 months it was next to impossible to find HCl on the shelf unless you got to the store within a couple of days of the store putting it on the shelf

That's when "all" the stores jacked the price up double what it was before - now its back to normal where HCl is on the shelf anytime you need it --- but as in most cases like this - now that they have jacked the price up (due to short lived high demand) they are not lowering the price - even though demand has dropped off

Here is an example of one such local guy :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=22914&p=240440&hilit=safety#p240400

Kurt


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## Tndavid

Does anyone know if a chemical supplier in Tennessee. A drive for hno3 sounds better and more cost efficient for me. Thanks in advance.


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## Shark

Check with Greenway Chemical in Knoxville.


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## Barren Realms 007

Tndavid said:


> Does anyone know if a chemical supplier in Tennessee. A drive for hno3 sounds better and more cost efficient for me. Thanks in advance.



What part of TN are you located in?


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## Tndavid

Humphreys County. I guess it would be considered west-middle tn. I'm right on the TN River.


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## Barren Realms 007

Tndavid said:


> Humphreys County. I guess it would be considered west-middle tn. I'm right on the TN River.



Nashville or Jackson then would be your best bet's. If that don't pan out Then Memphis or Alabama to Dudadiesel.


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## Palladium

Industrial Chemicals Inc

3349 Ambrose Ave, Nashville, TN 37207
(615) 724-0150

https://g.co/kgs/nP8igA 

$125 for a 170 lbs of nitric acid. (17 gallons )
$200 keg deposit.


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## Tndavid

Palladium said:


> Industrial Chemicals Inc
> 
> 3349 Ambrose Ave, Nashville, TN 37207
> (615) 724-0150
> 
> https://g.co/kgs/nP8igA
> 
> $125 for a 170 lbs of nitric acid. (17 gallons )
> $200 keg deposit.


Thanks Palladium..


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## Tndavid

Palladium, do you know if I can get a smaller quantity? I tried their website but couldn't get any where


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## Tndavid

Or if I have to have any type of permit or license?


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## Palladium

That's the smallest amount you can buy from them. You need a business license is all.


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## Tantaros

All I need to know is where I can buy nitric acid hoping somewhere near Topeka Kansas. I don't a lot of it right now but just need enough to get me started


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## Topher_osAUrus

Tantaros said:


> All I need to know is where I can buy nitric acid hoping somewhere near Topeka Kansas. I don't a lot of it right now but just need enough to get me started



Hello fellow kansan.
I dont know of anywhere up there. But, science education center in wichita sells small bottles. (expensive, but mark [owner] is a great guy...and he even sells other refining supplies) dudadiesel (online) sells to anyone with a credit card and an address.


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## rickbb

Last 2 liters I bought came from Amazon, ships from Allied Chemical in Texas. Delved to my door, no business address required. Was cheaper than others places that do require a business address to ship to.

Yes, I was surprised at that too.


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## Salburr

Has anyone used the Nitric Acid from China? I'm in western Canada, and the best i can find is over $120/liter... scary prices..... Online you can get a 500 ml bottle from China for $1, free shipping. The spec sheet shows it is normal strength etc etc but sometime China can be surprising... 
Still ready to take the plunge for a half dozen as I cannot get anything delivered out here cheap. Thought I found a good deal from Ontario and then Purolator wanted $80 to ship it... sigh....

I'm in no rush, still reading lots and collecting PM's..but.....


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## Jamiedrchiro1

Any help in finding some nitric acid around Paducah KY... Im going to refine some gold fill and am having a hard time trying to source some local nitric acid. Thanks for the help in advance..


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## rickzeien

Salburr said:


> Has anyone used the Nitric Acid from China? I'm in western Canada, and the best i can find is over $120/liter... scary prices..... Online you can get a 500 ml bottle from China for $1, free shipping. The spec sheet shows it is normal strength etc etc but sometime China can be surprising...
> Still ready to take the plunge for a half dozen as I cannot get anything delivered out here cheap. Thought I found a good deal from Ontario and then Purolator wanted $80 to ship it... sigh....
> 
> I'm in no rush, still reading lots and collecting PM's..but.....


Can you post a link. Many people may be interested if it turns out to be a good source. 

Thanks in advance.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Striker33

Just purchased nitric acid from Lab Alley, no hassle to my front door:

https://www.laballey.com/collections/nitric-acid


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## goldenchild

Striker33 said:


> Just purchased nitric acid from Lab Alley, no hassle to my front door:
> 
> https://www.laballey.com/collections/nitric-acid



That's pretty good. With the coupon you can get the 4x2.5 liters for $220.00 shipped. At DudaDiesel it's $239 shipped. It's good to have more than one source. Thanks.


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## ashir

Any one know about chem supplier in Pakistan? 
At the moment I need khso5, pure/oxone


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## eprigge

I'm looking for good supplier in the northeast, hopefully somewhat close to southern NH. I'd like them to be within driving distance. I can get everything I need online but the prices are a ridiculous compared to what bulk technical grade prices are esp. for acids. 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


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## voidforged

If anyone is around the Reno, NV area or is willing to drive there, legend mining Co offers 6x2.5L bottles of nitric for around $160ish with no shipping costs if you choose to pick up in store.


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