# Separating gold from black sand/useless particles



## Anonymous (Mar 12, 2008)

Hello all. It's my first post. I came here to search the best guys, who can help me with this trycki ideea. 
Ok, so i was thinking about this scenario: 
I use the waterjet/sluice method. At the end of the day, i colect eerything from the sluice(gold+debris). Now i have to sort gold from sand, and u was thinking about using 1 of these 2 ways, or maybe combined: 
A) use a magnet to get all of the black sand(ion oxides ?!!?) so that leves just some work to be done. 
B) take everything and put it in a small electric furnace. because gold has like 1064 C melting point, and iron( and it's oxides i think , right ) has like ~1500C, the gold will start to flow in one direction before the iron oxides. And if that isn't enough, they also have diferent density, gold 19.3gr./ccm, and iron sulphate something like 11 or 12. So Thats a double cnahce to trick the hole stuff into separating it's self. I get everything to 1600 C , enough to melt everything, then the gold gows down, ythe iron up, i let them cool, and it's like oil over water, 2 separated layers. 
Now even more , here's a list of diferent materials with theyr densityes. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/index.php So i was thinking of adding one more thing, i'll pick someting from that list, somethign that has a density betwen that of gold and iron, so that once it's all liquid, i'll have gold>something>iron. I would have liked if glass was betwen them, but it's not. Dry sand apears to have 16 density, betwehn 19,3 gold and iron sulphate 12. So i'll gest turn to quartz/galss and settle betwen gold and iron ? What do u think ? I have exactly 0 minutes and 0 seconds of gold mineing, but i'm thinking aobut it and i want to know if this will work. Oh, somethng else i don't know... this balck sand , i've heard that it may contain gold, so melting it all would free the gold inside it ? Right ?


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## peter i (Mar 12, 2008)

The first thing you should do, is to make sure the densities are correct!



... and welcome :wink:


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## Anonymous (Mar 12, 2008)

peter i said:


> The first thing you should do, is to make sure the densities are correct!
> 
> 
> 
> ... and welcome :wink:



Ok, just of the phone with God, an he sayd he's making sure the densitys will be alright for me  . What next ? Will the black sand melt properly? At what temp? , cauz i don't think it's all just iron oxides, it's all sort of darn variations. :?:


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## ChucknC (Mar 12, 2008)

OK, since it seems like your dealing with prospecting concentrates, here's where you should start long before you even consider firing. 
First, you need to find a way to super concentrate the black sands to a manageable amount. Remeber, molten gold and iron will form a hellacious alloy. Here's a link to youtube that will give you an idea of how to start. Pay particular attention to the cleanup sluice used after the impact mill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdikUKNLCHY

Secondly, you will need to find a flux formulation that will oxidize rhe base metals so they can be absorbed by slag and not alloy with the gold.

PM me if you are more interested in where to look. Plain borax based fluxes that you can find the formula for on the net are absolutely useless IMHO. Also if you need it, I'll forward you the info on that popandson cleanup sluice. It's the best way I have found to really concentrate the cons down to a useable amount.

Another option is to leach the gold out of a super cons. Just follow the standard formulas used here, or do your homework to find a diffrent formulation. It's up to you. 

Remeber do your homework. Personally, I'd advise you to get a good flux pre- mix that is designed for the type of firing your thinking about doing.

Chuck


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## peter i (Mar 12, 2008)

IVAN__V said:


> Dry sand apears to have 16 density, betwehn 19,3 gold and iron sulphate 12.





IVAN__V said:


> Ok, just of the phone with God, an he sayd he's making sure the densitys will be alright for me



You make atheism such a sensible alternative.

Do you want to play, or do you want to learn?


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## Anonymous (Mar 13, 2008)

@ChucknC

So... molten gold and molten iron will create an aloy... i was hoping they would separate a bit...gues i'll have to search the web for a lot of stuff to read.

@peter i

IVAN__V wrote:
Dry sand apears to have 16 density, betwehn 19,3 gold and iron sulphate 12. 



IVAN__V wrote:
Ok, just of the phone with God, an he sayd he's making sure the densitys will be alright for me 



You make atheism such a sensible alternative. 

Do you want to play, or do you want to learn?

A.. what ? I belive in God. LOL. I was a joke. I gues it's bad when u need someone to point out a joke to you... Are there more like u on Earth ? geez. over and out, i'll find info on my own.


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## peter i (Mar 13, 2008)

Believe it or not, I was joking too :wink: 

The density of normal sand is around 2,7* g/cc
And ferrous sulphate weigh 15 pound / gal which is around 1.8 g / cc.
(Judging from the fact that you give gold as 19,3, and is a European, I assume that you are "predominantly metric")

On that account, your deity of choice is still miserably ill informed.


*http://www.jstor.org/view/1364503x/ap000044/00a00090/0 for some sand-talk


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## Platdigger (Mar 13, 2008)

I'll tell you what, if you get some info strait from the source.....and now you got something.....

As far as melting gold from black sands......I know "smelting"....here we go again, are you guys ready?

"Megan Rose"......... claims to have these flux formulas, for, (she claims) doing just that. Of course she will not divulge the formula, just sells it.
Has anyone here tried any of her fluxes?
Randy


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## Ian_B (Mar 13, 2008)

I would think the idea of putting a magnet inside a zip-lock bag and running it over you gold/iron etc/ other mixture would be a good starting point because gold isn't magnetic... 

(well a gold coin/bar/button isn't but I'm not entirely sure if it could become magnetized... I have my doubts that it would though)

So run the magnet in the bag over your mix like 3 or 4 times and seperate the iron etc from the mix, maybe put it into a different container and store it away to process later incase some of the gold got into it. 

at least then you have gotten rid of most of your iron and other magnetic particles.

now before I go any farther I haven't processed blacksand so I don't know if this would be safe or dangerous but I would image it would be alright

use a washing method 

Hydrocloric acid+ hydrogen peroxide
filter
rinse with water
filter
rinse with water
filter
put the heat to it get it nice and hot let cool

nitric acid 

filter
rinse with water x3
heat up and burn off any residual nitric acid particles let cool

then 

use HCL+CL 
filter 
disscard whatever is left in the filter

drop the gold with SMB 

filter and SAVE the stuff in the filter and wash all over again

then melt with borax as a flux 

and anybody please correct me if this doesn't sound right or would't be safe

The only thing I am not to sure about would be if the hcl and nitric would react funny with something that is in the mixture that isn't gold ?


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## Anonymous (Mar 14, 2008)

peter i said:


> Believe it or not, I was joking too :wink:
> 
> The density of normal sand is around 2,7* g/cc
> And ferrous sulphate weigh 15 pound / gal which is around 1.8 g / cc.
> ...



I still dont understand what you'r saying about my deity. lol.... i use metric system, and i said : that gols is 19,3 grams / cubic centimeter ..... iron sulphate is 1.2 grams / cubic centimeter . What do u mean with "is still miserably ill informed" ??? I used metric and said grams/cubic centimeter. 
And acording to this http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_materials.htm dry sand has 1.6 grams / cubic centimeter.


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## peter i (Mar 14, 2008)

Silver is 10.5g/cc, 
lead is 11.34g/cc, 
pure iron is 6.98g/cc.

It is some very interesting iron sulfate you have there!


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## Anonymous (Mar 15, 2008)

peter i said:


> Silver is 10.5g/cc,
> lead is 11.34g/cc,
> pure iron is 6.98g/cc.
> 
> It is some very interesting iron sulfate you have there!



Hihihi... i didn't make that list.


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## peter i (Mar 15, 2008)

IVAN__V said:


> And if that isn't enough, they also have diferent density, gold 19.3gr./ccm, and iron sulphate something like 11 or 12.



This should learn all of us to critically evaluate the information we find and always consider the reliability of things we find at the internet.

Wherever you got your numbers from, I would not trust any other information from that site.
When playing with reactive chemicals and precious metals, bad information may hurt you and cost you lots of money.

(Where did you get your numbers from?)


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## ChucknC (Mar 15, 2008)

Randy and guys,

I have indeed used the fluxes that Megan Rose sells, and can say that, used as per the directions, they are are quit effective. I have a 12g prill to show from a crucible that was clogged by trying to use a flux recipie I got off the internet. The only problem I had is the previous flux had too much soda ash in it. This thinned out the walls of the crucible, and allowed a burn out above the metal/flux layer. As Harold can tell you, a crucible can fail in any melt, especially in the presence of soda ash.

I'll need to get more crucibles to do the rest of my blacksands and associated materials, but I'll also get more of her fluxes too. They're worth it.

In conclussion, these fluxes are an effective and cost efficient way to recover gold from what appear to be spent black sands. I would advise anyone wanting to use them to super concentrate their "spent" black sands to get all the heaviest material into as small an amount as possible.

Chuck


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## Platdigger (Mar 15, 2008)

So Chuck,
This 12 gram prill, was from blacksands? Or something else?
Randy


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## ChucknC (Mar 16, 2008)

It was from a crucible plugged with an internet flux. The material was a mix of blacksands and about 3g of electronic scraps recovered gold. There was no visible gold in the sands.

The black sands had been concentrated down twice before firing. First in a cleanup sluice and secondly in a green bowl. I intend to make a popandson sluice to make it neccessary to run the material only once.

Does that answer your question sufficiently Randy?

Chuck


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## Platdigger (Mar 16, 2008)

Haha..weeell....

Almost

Is that 12 gram prill mostly gold then? Is that what you are saying?
Thanks Chuck
Randy


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## ChucknC (Mar 16, 2008)

I haven't parted the prill yet to find out the percentages of metals, but yes, it is mostly gold.

How are things on the Micron gold site?

Chuck


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## Platdigger (Mar 16, 2008)

Pretty active now that Art came back on there.

I will send you a pm.
Randy


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## Shecker (Jun 26, 2008)

When magnetite is wet it has a very high ionic bond for gold and other pm's. When I am working with black sands the first thing I do is thoroughly dry the sample, because drying breaks down this ionic bond. Then the magnetite can be magnetically removed and I generally run it three times so that all non-magnetics are removed. Then the question is: are the pm's in the magnetic fraction as an intergrowth of iron and pm's, or are they in the non-magnetic fraction but covered with oxide materials so they are not visible? Each of these has it's own approach but I like to use a hcl-cl leach so that nitrous oxides are not present in the final product. Precipitation is then much easier. While I have seen intergrowths of iron and pm's that are highly magnetic (I know of one in New Mexico that is very, very rich) most of the time ionic bonding is what prevents the pm's from seperating from the magnetite.

Randy in Gunnison


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## Anonymous (Sep 27, 2008)

Actually, 19.3 is the specific gravity of gold........


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## EVO-AU (Oct 21, 2008)

Platdigger: Yeah, Megan claims a lot of things. I wonder who her advisiory board really is ???????? evp


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