# CYLINDRICAL CELL



## renatomerino (Mar 25, 2012)

This is a cylindrical cell that I built with PVC pipe 6 inches in diameter and 40 inches high overall.
The main body is 28 inches long heads are 12 inches high each.
The cathode is stainless steel plate 304 of 0.15 mm thick and is connected with a bolt 3/4 stainless steel also.
The anode is constructed of 1 m from 304L stainless steel pipe with a welded steel disc at one end and a thread of 1 inch to close the cell in the other.
The anode or central axis is connected to the positive pole of the power supply and the plate cylinder acts as cathode and is connected to the negative pole of the power supply.
Feeding the lower and upper outlet are tangential and have a diameter of 1 1/2 inch.
The working voltage of the cell is 2.2 and the silver deposit has reached 3 kg. for each cell.
The flow of solution in the cell is 60 lt / min.


----------



## Palladium (Mar 25, 2012)

Very nice! Is that steel wool???


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 25, 2012)

PVC tubing has 3/8 in thickness and is glued with hot air welding PVC.


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 25, 2012)

These are the latest pictures.


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 25, 2012)

When a layer of steel wool cell range is gold recovery from 0.1gr/lt to 0.001gr/lt.
When placed as cathode stainless steel plate the silver recuperacione is from 20 g / l to 0.05 g / l.


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 25, 2012)

That is very nice looking.


----------



## goldsilverpro (Mar 25, 2012)

Very interesting. What are you producing from what? What solution? What yield per day? You have hardly given us a hint of what you're really doing. The only thing I caught onto was that, at the end, you shi* out some nice looking cathode silver. How did you do all this and why should I care? Both valid questions.


----------



## Palladium (Mar 25, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> Very interesting. What are you producing from what? What solution? What yield per day? You have hardly given us a hint of what you're really doing. The only thing I caught onto was that, at the end, you shi* out some nice looking cathode silver. How did you do all this and why should I care? Both valid questions.



Had me a little puzzled to.


----------



## butcher (Mar 25, 2012)

I am impressed, nice cell, I also am curious of the solution, as this seems similar how they recover silver from the x-ray or film solutions, I also have a few more questions, what is the liner outside of the steel wool (stainless steel?), and what type of current draw from power supply (the size of wire makes me think of considerable amperage.

Also you mention gold, I did not understand, are you also trying to plate gold out of some solution.

You started a nice post; we are just hungry for the rest of the story.
We seem to have been left in the dark room here.


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 25, 2012)

He states gold and silver. I wonder if he is recovering values from something like thiosulphate solution.


----------



## dtectr (Mar 26, 2012)

If he believes this device/set-up is patent-able this may be intended as first notice, or public notice, or as dated proof of development. I don't know the correct terminology but we used something similar to protect jewelry designs back in the 80s. We used newspaper ads though. If has everything - dated images and description, even his image with the device with a witness. 
Just my dos centavos


----------



## kuma (Mar 26, 2012)

Hello all , how are tricks?
I hope all is well!


dtectr said:


> If he believes this device/set-up is patent-able this may be intended as first notice, or public notice, or as dated proof of development. I don't know the correct terminology but we used something similar to protect jewelry designs back in the 80s. We used newspaper ads though. If has everything - dated images and description, even his image with the device with a witness.
> Just my dos centavos


This reminds me of an old music industry trick I was once told about.
If you write a half decent tune and want to send a copy to a record label to have proffesionaly marketed and distributed , beforehand send yourself a couple of copies of said tune (used to be cassette tapes , I gues CD's will suffice these days , :roll: :lol: ) in sealed and stamped self addressed envelopes , to different addresses , by *registered mail , before sending it off to a label.
This way , if there is any discrepancies or your tune is copied or ripped off , you have an official sealed package containing a copy of your tune , dated before the _rip-off_ was released.
I don't know if this can help anybody at some point , but I feel it's a handy tip.
All the best everybody , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 26, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> Very interesting. What are you producing from what? What solution? What yield per day? You have hardly given us a hint of what you're really doing. The only thing I caught onto was that, at the end, you shi* out some nice looking cathode silver. How did you do all this and why should I care? Both valid questions.


You are right the main concept is that with this cylindrical cell can recover dissolved metals such as silver or gold by leaching.
This shape facilitates the handling electrowinning solution besides having higher performance.
This cell is an alternative to zinc precipitation with silver or gold.
The weld metal is very pure and easy to melt.
In my case recovered silver leaching solutions 15gr/lt silver and 8 g / l of free cyanide.
The current that is 8 Amp load per cell and 2.8 kg of silver each cell in 6 days of operation.


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 26, 2012)

butcher said:


> I am impressed, nice cell, I also am curious of the solution, as this seems similar how they recover silver from the x-ray or film solutions, I also have a few more questions, what is the liner outside of the steel wool (stainless steel?), and what type of current draw from power supply (the size of wire makes me think of considerable amperage.
> 
> Also you mention gold, I did not understand, are you also trying to plate gold out of some solution.
> 
> ...


I personally use these cells to recover silver and gold from cyanide leach solutions but also hope to recover silver and gold thiosulfate leach solutions.


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 26, 2012)

kuma said:


> Hello all , how are tricks?
> I hope all is well!
> 
> 
> ...


This has no secret and there is much information on internet cylindrical cells and many patents.
Perhaps the merit of this is to use materials available to everyone since it is very easy to duplicate the shape of the cell.
These cells I have built with PVC pipe, sheet and stainless steel pipe 304L.
The other challenge is to find the application of this cell to recover precious metals.


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 26, 2012)

Palladium said:


> Very nice! Is that steel wool???


You are right in the disposition of the cell to recover gold chip use iron that is used to clean wood floors, stainless steel no.


----------



## butcher (Mar 26, 2012)

I like the design and how the cell can be disassembled, it seems a lot of thought went into the design, the stainless steel sleeve seems to have some kind of liner or white material (in the picture) on the inside, this I do not understand, is this for a purpose or is this removed?

6 cells [email protected] 2.2 volts each (17.6 volts)
6 cells @ 8 amps each (48 amps)

A question on the power supply transformer and diodes (or plating rectifier supply),
The voltage is it actually higher like 20 or 24 volt or is the voltage adjustable (tapped transformer or rheostat? I also assume the power supply could supply more than 50 amps if the cell shorted, could you supply some details of the power supply, pumps and tanks, do you circulate the solutions through the cell when it is running or are the cells just filled ran then drained when done, are you using something like ammeters to let you know when cells are full of metals (how are you determining a finish point)?

Sorry for all of the questions, you just have me wondering a lot, and I am impressed with your work here, and would like to learn more about it.

Very nice setup, renatomerino thank you for showing us this, I do find it very interesting, if you do not mind bragging on a few more details, for this cell you have built.


----------



## Palladium (Mar 26, 2012)

butcher said:


> 6 cells [email protected] 2.2 volts each (17.6 volts)



:?:


----------



## butcher (Mar 26, 2012)

Oops 
6 cells @ 2.2 volts (13.2 volts), no excuse I am bad at math, did not sleep much lately which does not help my skill.

Palladium,
Thanks for proof reading, this makes more sense, could use a large capacity battery charger for the power supply.

(2.2 volts X 8 Amps = 17.6 Watts per cell)
(6 cells @ 17.6 watts = 105.6 watts total)
Power supply the wattage should be doubled. So a 200-watt or larger capacity, I would like to see the diodes in that power supply.


----------



## Palladium (Mar 26, 2012)

butcher said:


> Palladium,
> Thanks for proof reading, this makes more sense, could use a large capacity battery charger for the power supply.



That's what i was thinking.


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 27, 2012)

butcher said:


> I like the design and how the cell can be disassembled, it seems a lot of thought went into the design, the stainless steel sleeve seems to have some kind of liner or white material (in the picture) on the inside, this I do not understand, is this for a purpose or is this removed?
> 
> 6 cells [email protected] 2.2 volts each (17.6 volts)
> 6 cells @ 8 amps each (48 amps)
> ...


Cells as seen in the battery 6 connect them in series, thus the applied voltage is distributed as:
2.2 +2.2 +2.2 +2.2 +2.2 +2.2 = 13.2 volts and the current is the same for all cells.
The power applied to the battery is 13.2 Volts and 8 Amps.
According to Faraday's law and its electrochemical potential, theoretically deposited 4.2 grams of silver per Amp / Hour.
The current flowing in the battery depends on the applied voltage and having conductivity.


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 27, 2012)

butcher said:


> Oops
> 6 cells @ 2.2 volts (13.2 volts), no excuse I am bad at math, did not sleep much lately which does not help my skill.
> 
> Palladium,
> ...


My source of electricity is controlled diodes or SCR (thyristor).
However it is possible to use an electric welder with DC low power regulation sets.
My source of electricity is controlled diodes or SCR (thyristor).
However it is possible to use an electric welder with DC low power regulation sets.
The source I have obtained by modifying a DC electric welder.


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 27, 2012)

Palladium said:


> butcher said:
> 
> 
> > Palladium,
> ...


You're right anyway this is a circuit that is used to control SCRs.


----------



## butcher (Mar 27, 2012)

Thank you for taking time to give us this information, SCR's make the regulation better than the power source I was thinking of.

Just to be clear in my mind, the total current of all cells is 8 amps (not 8 amps each cell)?


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 27, 2012)

butcher said:


> Thank you for taking time to give us this information, SCR's make the regulation better than the power source I was thinking of.
> 
> Just to be clear in my mind, the total current of all cells is 8 amps (not 8 amps each cell)?


Right, the current flowing travez of all cells is 8 Amps.
This is the same concept:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjjnXzRci5M


----------



## goldsilverpro (Mar 27, 2012)

renatomerino.

For some reason, last night, I read every post you've made. I want to thank you for all the great info you've given the forum. You've been very unselfish. I would suggest that all re-read his posts. Thanks!
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?author_id=4471&sr=posts

Chris


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 27, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> renatomerino.
> 
> For some reason, last night, I read every post you've made. I want to thank you for all the great info you've given the forum. You've been very unselfish. I would suggest that all re-read his posts. Thanks!
> http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?author_id=4471&sr=posts
> ...



My interest is to share data and experience as I have seen in the forum.
There is much information online about the topics that interest us but lack the exchange of views.
Thank you for your acceptance that enriches us all.


----------



## butcher (Mar 28, 2012)

renatomerino,
I have not gone back and re-read all of your posts that GSP has, I would like to read them and may spend time doing so later.

I see in just this one thread here a wealth of information, the pictures of the cells you built, the use of the welder and SCR control circuit, and the video of the commercial copper electrolysis recovery from electrolytic solutions, all of this information you provide here I could use, I can also see where many of us members could incorporate these Ideas, into our recovery and refining systems.

I like building things and electronics, and the information you provided here can help me to be able to build the power supply and a cell if I put my mind to it, It could also help me to build a tubular cell, which can have many uses including giving me a way to pre-treat my waste solutions.

Thank You again you are an asset to all of us here on the forum please keep up the good work.
Butcher


----------



## goldsilverpro (Mar 28, 2012)

renatomerino,

The way I see it is that you have 6 cells, each with 8A applied, for a total of 48A applied to the cathodes. At 4.025 g/A-hr and 100% efficiency, you would deposit 48 x 4.025 = 193g = 6.2 tr.oz./hr = 149 tr.oz./24 hr day. To produce 3kg in a single cell would take about 4 to 5 days at 8A.

Are you running cyanide solutions through the cell or have you switched to thiosulfate? In your cell system, I can see both working. I would guess the silver in the photos was produced from cyanide solutions. At some point, with cyanide, the silver concentration would be reduced to the point where the cathode efficiency would be quite low. Do you reduce the current at that point or, do you use the cyanide to leach more material so as the keep the silver concentration up?

As I understand it, when running gold, you use the steel wool with no current - cementation. You use the current to deposit silver on the SS cathode. Two different setups.

When plating silver from thiosulfate fixer solutions, most cells have rotating cathodes to replenish the silver in the cathode film and prevent the formation of black silver sulfide. I assume the tangential flow and the great flow rate of the solution through the cell would serve the same purpose. Have you tried this with thiosulfate? If so, are you forming any silver sulfide?

These are all assumptions on my part. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## eeTHr (Mar 28, 2012)

GSP---

As with chemistry, the terms used for electricity should be accurate in order to avoid confusion.

Current is never "applied." Voltage is applied, and depending on the resistance of the circuit, some amount of current will *result.*

The current through loads connected in series will be the same through each load. If the entire circuit of the six cells allows a current flow of eight Amps (for a specific voltage), then measurements taken anywhere between the cells will all read eight Amps. This current, for any given voltage applied to the entire circuit, will be dependant on the total resistance of the entire circuit of the six cells.

So the production rate of each cell would be calculated using the eight Amp current flow figure. Then the total production rate would be the individual cell rate multiplied by the number of cells. This would still give the same overall production that you stated---it just sounds a little goofy the way you worded it.... Technically speaking. 8)


P.S. The voltage, however, _*is*_ divided amongst the cells, so each cell if measured at it's electrical input and output terminals would measure 2.2 volts, when the power supply is providing 13.2 volts to the six cells, which are connected in series.


----------



## butcher (Mar 28, 2012)

I am still a little confused on cell amperage (current), at first I thought it was 8 Amp per cell, then it was said to be 8 amp total for all cells, this would make a big difference in any calculations made.

Although the cells current will also vary with how much silver or other metals are in the electrolyte, and the cells resistance to current as long as voltage was fixed at a regulated value from the power supply.

From reading many of GSP's posts on cells, I believe he has a good grasp on the electrical theory.


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 28, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> renatomerino,
> 
> The way I see it is that you have 6 cells, each with 8A applied, for a total of 48A applied to the cathodes. At 4.025 g/A-hr and 100% efficiency, you would deposit 48 x 4.025 = 193g = 6.2 tr.oz./hr = 149 tr.oz./24 hr day. To produce 3kg in a single cell would take about 4 to 5 days at 8A.
> 
> ...


It should be noted that in all cells the same current flows 8 Amps and leaving the power supply.
The power consumed by the 6 cells is 13.2 x 8 = 106.4 W
The silver deposited in each cell, theoretically is 8 x 4.025 g/h
Processed solutions derived from leaching with cyanide.
After removing the silver electrowinning solutions are reused in new process.
Inside the cell produces a rotary movement of the solution which prevents passivation.With the steel wool increases the cathodic surface.
Probably also occurs by precipitation with iron replacement.
It is possible to recover silver from thiosulfate solutions.


----------



## renatomerino (Mar 31, 2012)

eeTHr said:


> GSP---
> 
> As with chemistry, the terms used for electricity should be accurate in order to avoid confusion.
> 
> ...


Totally agree, you've raised your better than me, is hard for me to raise an idea and translate to another language.
Thanks for the correction.


----------



## butcher (Mar 31, 2012)

renatomerino,

Heck I can barely raise an idea, and explain it in my own language.

Your doing great, I have no trouble understanding you.


----------



## renatomerino (Apr 1, 2012)

butcher said:


> renatomerino,
> 
> Heck I can barely raise an idea, and explain it in my own language.
> 
> Your doing great, I have no trouble understanding you.


Hi 
My respects to Mr.hutcher


----------



## goldsilverpro (Apr 1, 2012)

eeTHr said:


> GSP---
> 
> As with chemistry, the terms used for electricity should be accurate in order to avoid confusion.
> 
> ...



You said that - Current is never "applied." 

Are these 1.1 million hits on - "current applied" cathode - all wrong? Some of these sources sound very scholarly.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22current+OR+amperage+OR+amps+applied%22+cathode&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

This one I added the keyword, electrowinning. The first hit is the EPA site.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22current+OR+amperage+OR+amps+applied%22+cathode+electrowinning&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

I apply a specific amount of current to the cathode by altering the applied voltage. I would never say something so confusing, but it works.

A similar situation is the word "chip." When most electronic guys see these parts in the photos in the link below, they call them them "chips." Strictly speaking, however, what you are visibly seeing is not the chip, but the package that protects the "chip" (the circuit) and gives it means to connect to a PC board, or whatever. The silicon IC "chip" is inside the package and you can't see it in most of these photos. An Intel IC packaging engineer would most probably define these as packages containing chips and not chips, themselves. So, who is right? In this case, is it the majority using the slang term, "chip," or the minority using the correct term, "packages?" Depends on your profession or point of view. I spent several years working with the packaging department (where they package the chips) at Intel and AMD and I cringe when people call the whole assembled units, "chips." However, they are just as right as I am, in their way. They are not correct but they are right. Oftentimes, being "right" is more important than being "correct." Depends on where you are, what you're doing, and who you're dealing with.
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1116&bih=463&q=cpu+chips&gbv=2&oq=cpu+chips&aq=f&aqi=g2g-S2g-mS6&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0l2j0i24l2j0i5i24l6.7729l12588l0l14734l9l9l0l0l0l0l84l681l9l9l0.frgbld.


----------



## renatomerino (Apr 1, 2012)

This is the steel wool with gold deposited on it.
You can also see that is contaminated with iron cyanide.
I can only use nitric acid to dissolve the iron and separating by filtration as ferric nitrate, for this reason I have all this material to be heated in a crucible to destroy the cyanide.
Try these cyanides with nitric acid produces insoluble ferric ferricyanide is mixed with gold.
In nitric acid dissolves iron chips and is a precipitate of gold, and perhaps some clay and others who will see.


----------



## Palladium (Apr 1, 2012)

Interesting! What is the gold to silver numbers once this is melted?


----------



## renatomerino (Apr 1, 2012)

Palladium said:


> Interesting! What is the gold to silver numbers once this is melted?


So is the iron wool after recovering gold from cyanide leaching solutions.
The initial concentration of gold in solution is 24 mg / l and the final concentration of gold is 1mg/lt, free cyanide is 7 g / l at the beginning of electrolysis.
Roasting of iron wool, gold and other salts is at 650 ° C to destroy cyanides containing insoluble.
After the calcination can be leached with nitric acid to remove the insoluble gold.


----------



## eeTHr (Apr 1, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> You said that - Current is never "applied."
> 
> Are these 1.1 million hits on - "current applied" cathode - all wrong? Some of these sources sound very scholarly.
> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22curre ... =firefox-a
> ...





GSP---

Your're right. They use the terms seemingly interchangeably. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me---because while you can apply a voltage to something (an open circuit, for example) and have no resulting current, you cannot apply just a "current" to anything, without some amount of voltage to "push" it.

Obviously, when someone says, "apply a current," they are, indeed, implying to use a voltage which will result in that amount of current flow. It just sounds wrong, that's all.

And in my opinion it can be confusing for people who are new to working with electricity. For example, certain ranges of voltage will cause different things to happen to different substances in electrolytic cells, while changes in the current flow will generally affect the rate at which those different things happen. I don't know very much about cells, other than what I've read (mostly on this forum), but a portion of what I have read has dealt with what I just mentioned. So I would think that it might be important not to confuse current with voltage, and the different ways they are used, with their different effects.

On a very strict technical level, the folks who used the term, "applied current" are misspeaking. Yet it is commonly acceptable. One example is the common term, "AC Voltage," when the AC stands for Alternating _*Current!*_ It appears that quite awhile back, some people started using the term "current" as a substitute for "electricity." Very confusing. A better term would have been "Alternating Polarity" Voltage. But it's too late now. 8)


----------



## renatomerino (Apr 2, 2012)

eeTHr said:


> goldsilverpro said:
> 
> 
> > You said that - Current is never "applied."
> ...



I appreciate your valued contribution item with different points of view.
If I serve my data who have served their purpose.


----------



## eeTHr (Apr 2, 2012)

rena---

Sorry to have gotten off on a tangent from your topic.

Your contrabutions to the forum are much appreciated. Very nice work!


----------



## renatomerino (Apr 3, 2012)

eeTHr said:


> rena---
> 
> Sorry to have gotten off on a tangent from your topic.
> 
> Your contrabutions to the forum are much appreciated. Very nice work!


eeThr
A greeting my friend, I think we share many ideas in the forum.
renatomerino


----------



## traderdans (Dec 30, 2012)

whats your phone number i need one of these?


----------



## kjavanb123 (Apr 4, 2013)

hi 

i need 6 of them as well, are they for sale?

thanks and regards,
Kevin


----------



## 4metals (Apr 4, 2013)

Electrometals in Canada has a commercial version and sells the technology;
http://www.electrowinning.com/metal-markets/silver


----------



## mikeinkaty (Apr 7, 2013)

4metals said:


> Electrometals in Canada has a commercial version and sells the technology;
> http://www.electrowinning.com/metal-markets/silver



What is Moebius cell bleed???

Mike


----------



## Westerngs (Apr 7, 2013)

Moebius cell bleed would be electrolyte removed from a Moebius cell that is becoming saturated with copper (as when you refine sterling). The electrolyte removed is replaced with fresh copper free electrolyte.

I imagine the Electrometals system would then be used to remove the remaining silver from the spent electrolyte prior to wastewater treatment. Alternatively, it could be used as a replacement of a refining cell. 

The Electrometals system is not cheap, you will need deep pockets.


----------



## goldmet (Jul 28, 2016)

Palladium said:


> Very nice! Is that steel wool???


Is steel wool to clean floors


----------



## 4metals (Jul 29, 2016)

Great thread to see bumped! And it appears that the bumper is the original poster of the cylindrical cell. Since this thread went dormant, another cell has been proposed by Deano and is discussed here; 

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21526&start=90

Perhaps Deano and Goldmet can weigh in on their respective systems, we can call it steel wool vs. carbon fiber.


----------



## Refining Rick (Jul 29, 2016)

I love this place! Sorry no great input on this subject from me. Just had to throw out there that this has been one of my favorite reads in a while. Well done gentleman. Informative, insightful and entertaining. Keep it up.  Keeps my head busy. Thank you.


----------



## goldmet (Aug 7, 2016)

Refining Rick said:


> I love this place! Sorry no great input on this subject from me. Just had to throw out there that this has been one of my favorite reads in a while. Well done gentleman. Informative, insightful and entertaining. Keep it up.  Keeps my head busy. Thank you.


Ja ja this is a beautiful hobby.I found this little plant desorption of activated carbon and able to share this experience with you.


----------



## goldmet (Aug 7, 2016)

These are planes of the cylindrical cell hope to clarify some points.


----------



## goldmet (Nov 5, 2016)

goldmet said:


> These are planes of the cylindrical cell hope to clarify some points.


----------



## hrushi60 (Feb 8, 2019)

Great informative post


Is this same

https://youtu.be/mOh8OlguxJA

They have 2 different types of cells
1. Powder cell can deplete the solution to 1.5gpl.
2. POLISH cells to deplete the Ag upto 5ppm subject to impurity profile.

They claim to recover 20-25 kg of Ag per cell per day with 99.99+ purity
They have SS Cathode and Specially coated (or activated) Titanium anode. I think titanium is plated with platinum. 


Regards
Hrushi60


----------

