# Just a status report...



## ReapHer_6 (Mar 7, 2012)

Hi all. Been busy in the lab. Not trying to reinvent the wheel but just understand it by doing it, hands on. I have had great successes and great failures. I expanded the lab and everything is going well. I am using the AP now as I ran out of nitric. Getting the PMs into sol is going well. Switching from AR (which I was getting used to) to AP brought on its own challenges. I seem to just have luck for dropping gold, but I have no idea how I am doing it. I notice my samples are small and thus the drops are small and fine. ( Steve explained a way to help with the ultra-fine precipitate and I am working on that. But then comes filtering. 

How are you guys processing (after the drop) small samples?? I processed 50 DDR chips (tower size not laptop) and with the calculations I think I hit right on. I think I hit about .1 - .2 grams. The precip is in the bottom of the flask. Now when I filter the other samples I think some of the precip is remaining in the Whatmans #2. Is there a SOP for small sample processing after the drop?

About AP and HCL / Peroxide... With the C2C method (which is amazing and the tutorial from was awesome) the foils come off perfectly. I have spent hours searching and reading up on using the AP to remove base metals. Can someone direct me to the actual process thread explain the AP process for base metal removal? I have done it over and over and somehow accomplished the mission. I am unfamiliar with quantities and times. Is the bubbler just to rejuvenate the used AP or should it run while the reaction is happening?

Lastly, I am looking for a Buchner filter (6" as I got 2 boxes of #2 Whatman 6" circles 200 total for a great price.) I need a 1 -2 liter funnel flask and the stopper. So if anyone has one lying around, please hit me up.

Thanks for now. 

John S.


----------



## maynman1751 (Mar 7, 2012)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12914 

Try here. Also LazerSteve has a video of the process. Use his search for your needs. It works great! It's in his sig. line at the bottom of the post.


----------



## artart47 (Mar 7, 2012)

Hi Reapher!
I have a thread in need help that covers most of my ap experience and all the help posts I received from members.
"how to recover my foils after ap?"
Also. If you click on "members" uper right. Find Lazersteve's line. Over on the right of his line is his website. Click "I accept" The login is a little tricky! gold is the name but the password is goldm1ner* you must use number 1 for the i and the asteric * at the end.
He has some videos you can view on ap and long versions for sale!

Filtering after drop.
I don't filter the gold powder. I let the smb solution sit mist the top to sink any floating powder. then I syphon it down near the powder and collect the solution in a second larger container. I fill the powder jar with some HCL and bring it to a boil in a highsided wather bath, syphon,acid again,boil,syphon,distilled water,boil,syphon distilled water boil, syphon and put the contents in a dish to dry.
I'm still a noob, can get my gold refined now, but my methods are crude, and as I continue, I'll be taught how to make less work for myself and use less chemical.
Because of my presant state of ignorance, I never get everything out of the drop right away. so everything I syphoned out went into the lagre glass container. I cover it and in four/five days it dropped more gold. sometimes I even get a third dusting. It is fine suspended gold, the solution always tests neg for gold
For right now that's how I do it.
Hope I could help!
artart47


----------



## ReapHer_6 (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks both of you. 

I have read the post you linked several times and actually used it to get started with AP, Not only does it work, but it worked perfectly. 
I am digging for using the AP method for removing the base metals in lou of nitric if it is a valid proceedure.

I have scoured Steves site, his AP videos and I have used his search feature alot.... LOVE it all .. 

I posted the question and then it occured to me.... you dont filter the material. YOU WASH IT!!!.. it was an AH HA moment. I am going to re read your reply and look at your post about the AP foils!!

Art, I too am new but found the same thing occurs. My siphoned off liquid always seems to drop more over time. This dusting is really what I need to learn to handle. Now I filter it and then it is in my filters. Not much to play with. Do you send the filters in with the next refining? ( I refine twice ) as my experience is limited and the gold is always dirty after the first refining. 
You guys rock.

John S.


----------



## maynman1751 (Mar 8, 2012)

> I am digging for using the AP method for removing the base metals in lou of nitric if it is a valid proceedure.



To the best of my knowledge AP has its limitations when it comes to dissolving base metals. It will dissolve copper and some steel, but it is not real effective on kovar steel. It is, in general, a slower process than nitric, but much less costly. That's about all I can tell you.


----------



## Geo (Mar 8, 2012)

keep your kovar pins separated (easy to do, as they are magnetic). process these in JUST hcl alone. cover material with a couple inches over (never fill vessel more than half full) and set on a hot plate and bring to a boil, cover with a watch glass. use a gentle boil adding water the first couple of additions and then fresh hcl on the third. repeat additions as needed. this process may take up to couple of days to dissolve the kovar pins but you should be left with a very dark solution and small gold flakes (not foils). hcl alone will not dissolve gold but if you boil vigorously enough it may oxygenate to the point of dissolving a TRACE amount of gold. filter out the flakes and add the solution to your stock pot.


----------



## artart47 (Mar 9, 2012)

Hey Reapher!
Geo and other members pointed out several things to me early in my learning about the problem. One is that if there is debris in the solution (dirty foils at the begining) the micro gold particals will cling to it and tend to be a colloidal,probably why my solution is negative to the stannis test. I now (after filtering the gold foils from the AP solution) keep them in a mason jar covered with hyrdochloric acid and boil it in a water bath to make sure I dissolve any remaining copper that the ap may have missed. If the acid gets discolored I syphon it down and add some fresh untill it stays clear. in the last boil I add just a ml. of 32% sulphuric acid with the HCl theysaid that would remove any lead/tin trace that might be from solder. after the acid I start using distilled water boils, then I go to dissolve the foils and drop with smb.
Their advise make a world of difference! The other thing was clean glass! I had a terible problem with the fine powder coating the sides of the jar. dirt,limescale and even oil from fingerprints on the glass!
I now scrub the jars with a plastic scrub pad and dish soap, rinse with hot water and then I use a sprey-bottle with distilled water to wash all the tap water from the bottle!
These things helped a lot. the rest is my skill. As I do more of this and get better at using the right amount of say...smb for the amount of gold that's in solution....Not using more chloine than it takes to dissolve my foils etc... I'm sure I'll have improved results!
Hope I could help! Keep reading and be safe! Oh! one more thing I use a high-sided container for the water bath to keep and cold drafts from your hot jar. a cold draft cam cause the jar to crack! The gold in the filter? when I go to dissolve some thing, I put some HCl in a glass baking dish put the filter in and add some chlorox untill the filter is clean then I slowly start adding that to the to the stuff I'm doing now. HCl/Cl will take any gold powder out of your filters.
best of luck
artart47


----------



## ReapHer_6 (Mar 9, 2012)

artart47.

Thank you so much for the reply. I followed your posts and love your willingness to pass on what you have learned. It makes good sense and I will impliment the ideas in your reply in my next run. Filtering has been the biggest PITA for me. I am still learning though. 

Thanks for the help and I will keep you posted. 

John S.


----------



## g_axelsson (Jul 30, 2013)

This is written for anyone that reads this topic in search of help.



artart47 said:


> ...If the acid gets discolored I syphon it down and add some fresh untill it stays clear. in the last boil I add just a ml. of 32% sulphuric acid with the HCl they said that would remove any lead/tin trace that might be from solder. after the acid I start using distilled water boils, then I go to dissolve the foils and drop with smb.


If you add sulfuric acid before dissolving you don't affect any metallic lead among the foils, sulfuric acid doesn't dissolve lead. The lead will then be dissolved at the same time as you dissolve the foils and then follow it to the gold drop phase.
I think that SMB drops both gold and lead from a chloride solution (lead as lead sulphate).

The result is better with a slight change in order. Add the sulfuric acid after the foils are dissolved but before filtering the gold chloride solution. In your case...
- wash the foils (to get rid of dissolved base metals)
- dissolve the foils (any lead remaining will dissolve now)
- add H2SO4 (the sulfuric acid precipitate any lead in solution as lead sulphate)
- filter the solution until it is clear (any lead gets stuck in the filter with other junk)
- drop the gold
- wash as Harold teaches
- if pure enough, melt, else re-refine

Göran


----------

