# Cant seem to drop the gold correctly



## Anonymous (Apr 20, 2008)

Please someone explain what the hell Im doing wrong!I have made several buttons with pretty decent results,but in the last month I cant get the gold to drop right.Im taking the auric chloride,letting it sit for a few hours to let the clorox dissipate,then diluting it and adding approximately twice as much smb as gold.All I am ending up with is a white cloudy mess.And I swear I have thrown out over half an ounce in the last week alone.I am just getting very frusterated and I am not thinking clearly.Is it possible I am diluting with too much water or adding too much smb or both?Thanks in advance for any help.
Johnny
By the way the gold I am putting into solution is pure,there are no contaminants.And the smb is pure,no contaminants.I always use new acid,peroxide,bleach, and my beakers are always clean, no contaminants.So all that is left is the ratio of products.


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## scavenger (Apr 20, 2008)

Try heating it. I always dilute with hot water and add smb dissolved in hot water. Works every time.


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## Rag and Bone (Apr 20, 2008)

Why would you use twice as much SMB as gold? A 1:1 ratio seems to be standard practice. I had a problem like yours. Simmering the solution for a 5-10 min.s and letting it cool before precipitation took care of it.

I hope you didn't actually discard anything. They say it can always be recovered.


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## yvonbug (May 4, 2008)

I know I'm a little tardy here, but are you useing tap or distilled water? Tap water has nasties in it and could cause that white stuff to happen. Distilled is better unless tap water is called for.-Y-


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## goldsilverpro (May 4, 2008)

I disagree and would put it the other way around. Always use tap water unless distilled water is called for. And, the only time distilled water is called for is when dissolved silver is present. Why waste your money.


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## Never_Evil (May 4, 2008)

Is your SMB Sodium MetaBulfITE? or Sodium MetabisulfATE? If you have the pool cleaner crap, its the wrong stuff and will cloud your water. Your gold is still there, you will just need the right stuff.


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## Harold_V (May 4, 2008)

goldsilverpro said:


> I disagree and would put it the other way around. Always use tap water unless distilled water is called for. And, the only time distilled water is called for is when dissolved silver is present. Why waste your money.


I'm afraid I have to side with GSP. 

I refined for over 20 years, using tap water every inch of the way, aside from making standard solutions, test solutions and electrolyte for my silver parting cell. I didn't even use distilled when dissolving inquarted gold, having inquarted with silver. The small amount of silver chloride that was created by using tap water (which WAS chlorinated) was recovered when the gold chloride was filtered, so even it was not lost. 

Way too much myth accompanies refining-----good sense should eventually unmask things---although that does not appear to be the case. 

For the record------I never experienced a single problem because of the use of tap water, and my gold quality would be the envy of most folks.. 

For the purist, a guy that may desire quality better than 4 9's, I would NOT use tap water. My intention was to rival commercial quality gold, which was accomplished by my refining procedures. 

Harold


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## yvonbug (May 4, 2008)

I've been going nuts lately, trying to remember things and taking care of the parents and every thing else. So I forget that tap water isn't the same thing to everybody. My tap water is well-water, and it has all kinds of scary things in it. City water is different, I guess. Whatever, maybe thats whats wrong with me. (Hi Harold... I still got a crush on you)-Y-


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## Harold_V (May 5, 2008)

yvonbug said:


> (Hi Harold... I still got a crush on you)-Y-


Chuckle!

That's because you've never seen me. I'm old, wear a beard and long hair (all white now), and have a bit of a beer gut, but I don't drink beer. Pass the licorice, please. And the apple pie and ice cream! :wink: 

Trust me----I'm a real tyrant! It wouldn't take you long to hate me if you knew me.  

We are on a well, although when I refined I was not. We had city water that we thought was pretty good until we moved to Washington. We know our water is hard, but it's the best water we've ever had. Went back to Utah a few years ago and almost gagged on what we used to consider good water. Just ain't so!  

We determined that you become accustomed to the taste of chlorine, and don't notice its presence until you go away for a while. 

Unless your water is cloudy, or contaminated with metals, it should still be pretty good for refining. Most of the other crud isn't a contamination, for it's removed when gold is melted, plus filtration should be the last operation before precipitating. Anything that might be inclined to self precipitate from your solutions should be removed at that time. 

Anyway, if you find that distilled (or deionized) water solves your problems, then, by all means, use it. There's certainly no harm, aside from economics. 

Harold

edit: corrected typo


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## yvonbug (May 5, 2008)

Ha Ha! You'er safe from me, don't worry. By the way, you described my husband to a "T"! Except, along with the long hair, he's also bald on top. Anyways, I feel safer using the distilled water because I only refine computer scrap. And SOMETIMES a little solder, or silver, or what have you, gets thru. It seems that every time I relaxed a little and used tap water, everything got screwed up. I'd love to get that book, I've only had the one by C W Ammen to go by. If I remember right, you said that there seemed to be a few things missing, or not mentioned, in it. Also, I'd like to tell you, that I find you and the other guys raps very informative, and I have learned alot ever since I've joined this forum. Thanks, Yvonne (PS, I still do) :wink:


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## Palladium (May 5, 2008)

yvonbug said:


> I'd love to get that book, I've only had the one by C W Ammen to go by.



:arrow: Refining Precious Metal Wastes C[1].M Hoke http://tinyurl.com/5ld6kf (REV)


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## yvonbug (May 5, 2008)

I went to that link, but I can't get it to download. Bummer! I've been trying all sorts of things to get it to work, but no luck. I'm going to check my XP book, maybe it's my OS, and I've got to reconfigure something... I'll see..


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## yvonbug (May 6, 2008)

I got it! Thanks! Lets see what I can do after I read it! Gold, Gold, Gold!-Y-


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## eagle2 (May 8, 2008)

Yvonbug, you`re cute. Thats called `Double Gold, Gold fever!!`

aannnd going back to Mariannalice, probably the reason you`re having trouble preciping gold is the solution may be too acid. SMB likes best a PH of 1-3. 

When all else fails, try a Zinc Dust precip.

Al


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## flexyman (Jun 9, 2008)

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: Cant seem to drop the gold correctly 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please someone explain what the hell Im doing wrong!I have made several buttons with pretty decent results,but in the last month I cant get the gold to drop right.Im taking the auric chloride,letting it sit for 

Hello there,
My question is : how do you know the gold is pure? Have you precipitated
the same gold with SMB ? Some where I read that Gold is Temprimental
It does not like being dropped down twice by the same chemical, you
have to vary the Precipitants.
I once had a devil of time with SMB , it gets old when left open,
this is when its chemistry changes and forms white sludge in bottom of vesel . Have a wiff of fresh SMB and you get
strong Sulfor dioxide smell. As it gets older the SO2 diminishes.
Also SMB is not Gold specific precipitant. As far as I know only Ferrous
Sulfate is. When all else fails add battery acid to your gold solution
and boil this untill white fumes come off, you will find your metalic gold 
powder in the bottom of your beaker.

Alchemy is fun


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## Harkey1 (Sep 12, 2010)

My problem is very similar. When I put the smb in the aucl3 it went dark the way it is supposed to. That was a about 36 hours ago. It is still the same way. there may be a bout an inch of slight clearing on the tip but the cloud seems to stay suspended. Where is the malfunction?


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## Barren Realms 007 (Sep 12, 2010)

Harkey1 said:


> My problem is very similar. When I put the smb in the aucl3 it went dark the way it is supposed to. That was a about 36 hours ago. It is still the same way. there may be a bout an inch of slight clearing on the tip but the cloud seems to stay suspended. Where is the malfunction?



The possablity is that your gold might be such a small amout in the fluid it will take time to settle. It might be dirty and take time to settle. It might not be a diluted solution and have problem settling.


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## joem (Sep 12, 2010)

Harkey1 said:


> My problem is very similar. When I put the smb in the aucl3 it went dark the way it is supposed to. That was a about 36 hours ago. It is still the same way. there may be a bout an inch of slight clearing on the tip but the cloud seems to stay suspended. Where is the malfunction?



Mine did the same then all in 1 hour it dropped, I'm thinking it was too hot but dropped nice when cooled to the right temp.


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## Harkey1 (Sep 12, 2010)

should I dilute it, add nore smb or just wait?


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## lazersteve (Sep 12, 2010)

Heating a colloidal suspension will help the solution settle.

Steve


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## Harkey1 (Sep 12, 2010)

Cool Thanks Steve


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## butcher (Sep 12, 2010)

Try giving it a boil and let cool, add little HCL, if you already have more than enough SMB you should smell SO2 gas, if not try some more,, if all else fails I would not throw out gold, cementing with copper is easy,
You stated your solution was not loaded with base metals so that should not be the problem, any organics in solution? To cause colloids? 

Just letting sit for a while does not necessarily mean the oxidizers are depleted.
Never- Evil asked is that sodium metabisulfite or a sulfate? Was it stored dry in closed container?
Adding a pinch to a test tube with dilute HCL do you get SO2 gas?

Have you tried making and using ferrous sulfate?


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## eagle2 (Sep 13, 2010)

Yes, SMB should always be tightly closed. It does gradually decompose. Dissolve it in warm water before using and filter away any residues. The residues are the decomposed SMB and are useless.

If you are getting a black cloudy result, that is reluctant to settle, two things are likely wrong. 1. You always should precipitate from hot solutions. This will cause larger particles to form and settle easier. Most of the time I let it settle overnight anyway. 2. The solution is too acid or too basic. The best Ph is about 1-3. Too acid and you will not get a complete precip. and what does form tends to re-dissolve back into solution. Too basic and it will be colloidal with a lot of other contaminates and base metals mixed in.

Tin is always the main contaminant when using SMB, because this is the Ph where it self precips. So if you are adding some Hydroxide or Carbonate to raise the Ph and start to see a white cloudiness, that is a Tin compound forming. Let it FORM completely, settle and filter it away. You will have a cleaner and easier SMB precip. next. ( and you are now at the RIGHT PH for SMB!!! )

Always do these operations with hot solutions. Everything just works better with cleaner results.

If you don`t even use Ph paper, with experience you can watch the color changes as you add HCl or Hydroxide and know approximately where you are.


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