# melting foils



## andees78 (Nov 23, 2010)

hello all
two questions actually.

1-i had foils from 1 pound fingers close cut, and wants to melt them without refining. i washed the foils with water and hcl.
the foils are still in the water now, i dont want to filter because am afraid i will loose some gold.
the problem is that there are some tiny green plastic pieces with the foils, how do i get that out?

2-i got a mapp torch, easy-flo flux, and melting dish(fused silica). what i learned from reading is that i must heat the dish gradually until red hot, sprinkle flux and heat until i have a coating of flux. then put the foils and heat until melts. am i missing something? 

thanks


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## jimdoc (Nov 23, 2010)

You got this far you might as well take the final steps to get purer gold.

Jim


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## gold4mike (Nov 23, 2010)

I agree with Jimdoc. The easiest way to get the green bits out will be to dissolve the gold and filter the solution. Drop the gold, clean the powder, melt it.


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## lazersteve (Nov 23, 2010)

There are several videos on my website demonstrating the proper heating and preparation of melting dishes.

Steve


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## andees78 (Nov 24, 2010)

hello
thanks for replying.
i was afraid of using the ferrous sulphate, so i asked for smb and dishes to be send from uk. 
after waiting for two months ,the dishes arrived, though two of them broken. the smb was lost :shock: .
also am not going to sell the gold. i just want to make a ring, so i will alloy with copper anyway. and i knew that electronic gold is 0.99 gold .
so am going to melt some copper to get in the range of 0.75 . i know if i get purer gold i can determine how much copper to add exactly. i cant wait again , i want to show off with the ring :lol: .


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## nickvc (Nov 24, 2010)

andees78 said:


> hello
> thanks for replying.
> i was afraid of using the ferrous sulphate, so i asked for smb and dishes to be send from uk.
> after waiting for two months ,the dishes arrived, though two of them broken. the smb was lost :shock: .
> ...



Be aware that if you have any odd elements left in your gold it might not work too well, cracking when been worked or formed , hardening and porosity are all possible.
I would recommend you refine it fully and use the ferrous to precipitate it, wash your gold in hot water and rinse with hydrochloric several times until there's no colour in the acid then 
rinse several times in hot water dry and melt and then add your copper but make sure it's pure copper and clean or your back to problems.


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## butcher (Nov 24, 2010)

I agree, making foils to high purity is easy, and that would be my choice, before melting. And this would make a much better ring, Nickvc is right on with his advice, but if you live in a cave :roll: 

Harold will not like the cave man gold, and following his advice will give you beautiful gold to make a beautiful ring, do not give up, get what you need, a ring can and should be something you make that you can be very proud of, and if it is harder to get it will have more value to you, so do not go cave man on us. 8) 

Well a caveman has to do with what is around.
Let us see what we have around us  .

Can you get HCL and peroxide to remove the copper? It would give you a higher gold to copper ratio, (cave man maybe you can flux out some of the copper in melt?)

But one more step-- refine further it is easy.

HCl/bleach is easy to get and use if you wanted to go one more step, precipitate your gold from this with sodium meta bisulfite, sodium sulfite, or ferrous sulfate, or (cave man cementing with copper) (since you do not have other sulfates, or do not want to use ferrous-sulfate? why I do not know), the cemented gold then should be fairly pure after washing the powders per Harold’s instruction's.

Since we live in a cave's, ancient man made things from these metals and I know they were smart, maybe they used better methods than us cave men.

Order another melting dish, I bet Steve will pack you one that will not get broken.

Cave man melting dishes can be made,
Melting dish can be made from bone ash, or firebricks, can make melting dish from furnace refractory, and furnace glass fiber wool, or combination of these.

Charcoal or a piece of wood 2X4, make a dish shape with chisel, the wood will provide carbon for the copper, it will help some to keep copper in your foil's from oxidizing too bad, an acetylene torch or Mapp gas torch some borax, and flour as flux should melt button, but making a ring from this may not work, as the copper will try and oxidize in the melt. This may make forming a ring a big challenge, as base metals are very hard to melt without burning up.

Cave man Oxidizing the copper from the gold can also be used to your advantage, take some sheet rock, cut small square and make a melting dish, with pocket knife, set another piece of sheet rock under this, flux to slag off some of the copper I would use crushed glass for slag, a little KNO3 as oxidizer, and borax.

Ferrous sulfate is very easy to make, and works very well.

You really do not want a poor ring, have patients and make a great ring.

How about you save the foils until you have the materials to make a beautiful pure gold and then make a beautiful ring?, instead of going caveman style.

Refine your gold that is why you are here. 
Sow a beautiful ring and reap the rewards.


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## Harold_V (Nov 24, 2010)

The biggest concern I'd have using foils is the outside chance that lead has been included. It takes very little to destroy gold's ductile qualities. 

If you are sure that your foils are clean, free of traces of lead, and if you are certain you have removed traces of nickel, typically found under gold plating (prevents migration of gold in to base metals), you may achieve your goal by simply melting. Consider that the plastics of which you speak are not metallic substances, so they do not contaminate gold---although they would present their own problems when melting. Most plastics give of toxic gasses when burned.

Assuming you intend to forge ahead melting your foils, a couple things can be done to minimize oxidation of the included base metals. When it's all said and done, your objective should be to heat without introducing and free oxygen. Heat with a reducing flame, and flux once melted. Do not flux excessively---just enough to absorb the trash that results from melting. If you mix flux with the foils, before melting, there's a good chance you'll create a large number of prills that may be difficult to collect as a common mass. They would be found in suspension in the flux and could be recovered, but not easily. 

Allow the button to solidify in the melting dish (or vessel of your choosing, although NEVER one made of any metal), then instantly remove from the dish, using a tweezer. The button, somewhat encrusted with flux, can then be pickled in dilute sulfuric acid, which will remove any traces of flux, along with fire scale. If you plunge the hot button in cold water, much of the included flux will shatter and be liberated. Do not plunge in the sulfuric acid solution that would be used to pickle, to avoid getting sprayed with sulfuric. 

Given your purpose, I think I'd agree with the majority---if you dedicate the time required to further purify your gold, you will have something that will bring you much more pleasure, knowing you've done your best. 

In any case, good luck with the project. I, too, made a ring, cast in 18K gold, inset with a $2½ gold coin. Total weight was 2 troy ounces. It was taken in a burglary a few years ago, along with over $10,000 worth of karat gold jewelry. 

Harold


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## andees78 (Nov 24, 2010)

you are right butcher am trying to be a cave man :lol: . but believe me am really living in a cave 8) . 
am thinking about changing my username to caveman or the flintstone.
anyway i will listen to your advice and wait till i have all i need, and may be then i will have more gold and make a bigger ring.
thank you harold, butcher, nickvc, steve, gold4mike, jimdoc.


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## Palladium (Nov 24, 2010)

I think you just coined a new term here on the forum. Think I'll start calling gold that people want to process with magical results or processes without first doing the proper steps " Cave Man Gold " :lol: :lol: :lol:


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