# Gold Flashing, what are your thoughts?



## Damien (Dec 12, 2016)

Hey there miners! This is my first official post!
I am planning to make a post introducing myself, and telling my story/journey of becoming an urban miner.
For this post however, I'd like to ask of your opinions regarding gold plated boards, or gold flashing.

I'm still looking through the forum, there's a few posts so far on the subject, but I'm curious...

Do you/would you bother with these items?
Would you buy it in bulk to process?
What would be your preferred processing method?
What problems would you expect to encounter?
Any other thoughts/input...

I've attached some photos for reference. I look forward to reading what you all think!
Respect.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Dec 13, 2016)

Damien said:


> This is my first official post!.
> ...
> 
> Do you/would you bother with these items?
> ...



Welcome to the forum.

1. No, escrap I gave up on personally, but I get very limited time to recover/refine, so when I do I usually run goldfilled or karat scrap. Not that it isn't worth it, escrap can be *VERY* lucrative, but -you have to know what its worth. And that can be a difficult assessment when you are just beginning.

2. I, again personally, wouldn't buy it as scrap, unless it was a fair price. And to figure that out, I would use GSP's and/or catfish's method for estimating the value of gold plating.

3. Probably AP, set 'n forget, maybe nitric->ar if i was an impatient man

4. There's less gold than I wanted.

5. Study study study, especially if you are venturing into the escrap side of this. Some stuff is just better to cherry pick and send off, or save and send it all out after proper sorting(very important) to a refiner that will pay you decent. Kurtak has a lot of good (recent) posts in reference to that.

Again, welcome to the forum, there is a lifetime of study here for you, should you choose to. But, whether you run escrap or karat or whatever, you have to know value of your material, else you will get burned. Trust me on that one, it's a hard lesson to learn.


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## rickbb (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes, I'd bother with them, if I could get them free. 

You'll go broke paying for e-scrap unless you get a truck load cheap. Process a small sample first to get an idea of yield before you start writing checks.

From your pics AP is the way to go.

Only problem would be time if by bulk you mean a truck load and you don't have the setup for the volume. Too much of a good thing can be worse than not enough.


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> 1. No, escrap I gave up on personally, but I get very limited time to recover/refine, so when I do I usually run goldfilled or karat scrap. Not that it isn't worth it, escrap can be *VERY* lucrative, but -you have to know what its worth. And that can be a difficult assessment when you are just beginning.
> 
> 2. I, again personally, wouldn't buy it as scrap, unless it was a fair price. And to figure that out, I would use GSP's and/or catfish's method for estimating the value of gold plating.
> 
> ...




Thank you very much for such an informative reply! I agree there probably isn't much per board, but with enough of them I'm sure a tiny nugget could be achieved, depending of course if it's flashing or plating.

There's definitely a ton to learn, I've been researching obsessively, that's for sure. I printed the revised version of Hoke's book from here on the forum, and have started reading that, I've watched a ton of YouTube, etc., and eventually found this forum in my researching... I have been slowly building a collection, I did a small test run just to feel it out first hand, knowing I wouldn't do well, but it showed me a lot personally. 

Now all of my collection is sorted, pins with pins, fingers with fingers, cpu's with cpu's, etc. My aluminum and Copper is nice and neat, and ic chips and monolithic capacitors sorted.... 
I've collected all of my chemicals, including what I need to make my own nitric, awaiting a melting dish/crucibles in the mail, going to order some beakers/equipment. Going to build a good work area in the garage with strong fume hood, etc.

I'm not going to do another run until I do a lot more reading of Hoke's book, and reading/interacting here on the forum. I have a lot of green fiber chips coming, I plan to use my current collection to learn from before I touch the cpu chips, as I don't want to mess up any possible yield. 

I've researched yields as much as I can, and based on averages, I feel like I have a basic understanding of what should be on what parts... only personal experience will truly tell though, as I see many people have different results, and skill levels. I see this as a hobby/potential business, and I am going to research like crazy first, it's how I am, I get obsessive and one track minded... golf for example, I got addicted and studied like a banshee, practiced etc... I'm a 3rd season golfer who averages under 100. Lol. Shot an 86 twice this year, planning to break 80 next year, which is almost unheard of. lol. 

So I've latched on to this e-scrap thing, I've always loved taking things apart, having a ton of fun! lol.


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

rickbb said:


> Yes, I'd bother with them, if I could get them free.
> 
> You'll go broke paying for e-scrap unless you get a truck load cheap. Process a small sample first to get an idea of yield before you start writing checks.
> 
> ...



AP is definitely what I was thinking too. 
I was offered 5000 of the boards,(Small one with entire back side flash plated) but he wanted $5000. A buck a piece... 
I got ten, just to sample and see what's there. Awaiting their arrival in the mail any day. If the yield is miraculously there, it might be worth it... but I just can't see it. It will be fun to process the ten boards though, just to try it out, and learn. (PS. I bought the boards knowing full well it would likely be a loss, I don't mind paying a bit to learn for myself.)


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 13, 2016)

Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you're on the right track collecting and sorting.



Damien said:


> Going to build a good work area in the garage with strong fume hood, etc.


Unless the garage is totally detached from your home and you don't plan to store anything else in it, you might want to rethink that idea. The fumes will quickly corrode any metal around. Unless you run your fume hood 24/7, you'll see the result. Even brand new, tightly capped bottles of acid can vent.

Dave


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you're on the right track collecting and sorting.
> 
> Unless the garage is totally detached from your home and you don't plan to store anything else in it, you might want to rethink that idea. The fumes will quickly corrode any metal around. Unless you run your fume hood 24/7, you'll see the result. Even brand new, tightly capped bottles of acid can vent.
> 
> Dave



Hi there Dave, thank you! 
Yes, the garage is completely detached. I am a bit obsessive and would likely build something that can close when I'm not getting my hands in there, and sealed/vented to a stack on the roof... as I had seen that the fumes are corrosive here on the forum. I want to be safe and not risk my health, fire, or my family. My 2 year old daughter doesn't need to grow up without a daddy. lol. I'll be doing the lab coat thing, crazy scientist gloves and goggles... I might even grow my hair out just to make it super messy. Ha ha ha. Might even go as far as setting up a crazy tube/beaker system to process the fumes before they even make it to the air... lots to learn, but one thing I'll never run short of is crazy, far fetched ideas! LMAO


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## jeneje (Dec 13, 2016)

Damien said:


> I was offered 5000 of the boards,(Small one with entire back side flash plated) but he wanted $5000. A buck a piece...


Run away, run fast grasshopper. Welcome to the forum, at a buck a piece you will lose money. 

Ken


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## anachronism (Dec 13, 2016)

Hi Damien

As you have already worked out, $1 a piece is too high for this material as an average. Do what you have suggested i.e. read and learn. There's a huge resource on here. One thing to note. Look at what you CAN do to learn. Ewaste is not a dead loss at all. Plenty of people make a fair amount of money doing it however what you have to do is learn to pick your materials. Only experience can tell you what is good and what is bad coupled with feedback on here from members who have actually processed the different types. 

If you're serious about this, there's no harm investing in your learning. Buying some material that you know isn't going to make you a profit is perfectly fine if you can learn some of the processes by recovering the gold and refining it. That's worth paying for wouldn't you agree? Just don't lash out a huge amount of money just what you can afford and treat it as your apprenticeship costs. The learning curve is steep, and you will hit bumps along the way so enjoy and learn from them.

Jon


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

jeneje said:


> Damien said:
> 
> 
> > I was offered 5000 of the boards,(Small one with entire back side flash plated) but he wanted $5000. A buck a piece...
> ...



Yes, this is what I had figured in my estimations. So I'm just using 10 of them to learn from and have some fun. 
It would be great to get these things free though! Lol. (I don't see a "Dreamer" emoji... ha ha)


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

anachronism said:


> Hi Damien
> 
> That's worth paying for wouldn't you agree? Just don't lash out a huge amount of money just what you can afford and treat it as your apprenticeship costs. The learning curve is steep, and you will hit bumps along the way so enjoy and learn from them.
> 
> Jon




Exactly my train of thought. There's a lot to learn, and it would be disrespectful to think I'm just gonna dive in and be a killer gold hunter. I'm glad I found this forum because it's got such worth! I've been online for days. ha ha ha. I have a huge respect for all of you that do the urban mining thing successfully. It's an amazing twist to the usual gold miner, and you don't even need a dozer! Lol. I'm definitely addicted, definitely serious about doing it, and I'm happy to be here on the forum. (You're gonna have to delete my account to get rid of me now!! Muah ha ha ha ha)


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## jeneje (Dec 13, 2016)

anachronism said:


> Buying some material that you know isn't going to make you a profit is perfectly fine if you can learn some of the processes by recovering the gold and refining it. That's worth paying for wouldn't you agree?
> Jon



Jon as you know there are much better material to invest in for learning. Yes, he will have to pay for his education as we all have in this wonderful world of recovery/refining. Buying Ten boards is not going to yield a button of any size, it probably won't even drop from the solution. All you will get is some foils from the AP solution. Karat scrap or gold filled is a far better investment IMHO. 

This way he can always cement out the values and not lose his entire investment.

Ken


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

jeneje said:


> Jon as you know there are much better material to invest in for learning. Yes, he will have to pay for his education as we all have in this wonderful world of recovery/refining. Buying Ten boards is not going to yield a button of any size, it probably won't even drop from the solution. All you will get is some foils from the AP solution. Karat scrap or gold filled is a far better investment IMHO.
> 
> This way he can always cement out the values and not lose his entire investment.
> 
> Ken



This is why I ordered the ten boards. Even if it doesn't drop, that in itself will be a step towards knowing.  I'm in no way depending on any kind of profit right now, my wife's a teacher and I work at a golf course, I just want material to learn from first, and these boards just look sweet... if it doesn't drop from AR, I won't be sad. I would of course save the weak AR for a more significant run. 
I'm a hands on learner. I love reading and watching tutorials, but that only goes so far in real life. I'm expecting losses at first, it's like paying for education. 

For the record, I also have been buying/collecting jewelry... plated, filled, and karat... but that's a whole other post.


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## jeneje (Dec 13, 2016)

Damien said:


> jeneje said:
> 
> 
> > Jon as you know there are much better material to invest in for learning. Yes, he will have to pay for his education as we all have in this wonderful world of recovery/refining. Buying Ten boards is not going to yield a button of any size, it probably won't even drop from the solution. All you will get is some foils from the AP solution. Karat scrap or gold filled is a far better investment IMHO.
> ...


Damien, note the underline above. We all understand that it is a hobby to start. This hobby can and will get very expensive in a short time. Now, as for the underlined above, it is suggested to use HCl/Cl for foils. There are several reasons which I won't go into but, AR will cause you a problem right from the start on foils.

Good luck,
Ken


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

jeneje said:


> Damien, note the underline above. We all understand that it is a hobby to start. This hobby can and will get very expensive in a short time. Now, as for the underlined above, it is suggested to use HCl/Cl for foils. There are several reasons which I won't go into but, AR will cause you a problem right from the start on foils.
> 
> Good luck,
> Ken



I was thinking of something like that...

Was planning AP to remove foils, I can wait the time needed...
Was then planning HCL/CL then SMB precipitation.

I would honestly love to read your reasoning for AR problems...


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## anachronism (Dec 13, 2016)

Damien said:


> I would honestly love to read your reasoning for AR problems...



Me too


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## jeneje (Dec 13, 2016)

anachronism said:


> Damien said:
> 
> 
> > I would honestly love to read your reasoning for AR problems...
> ...


Me Too!!!


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## jeneje (Dec 13, 2016)

I wasn't going to post about this but, I will. Why would you want to create NOx and have to denox a solution when it is not necessary. Yeah, I know Jon, you could use Sulframic acid, add a button, wait and refine more material or just evaporate the solution down to a syrup and add HCl back to remove the excess HNO3. Yeah I know that to Jon, ONLY use what is needed, beginners always add more than is needed to do the job. 

All of this information is all over this site as well as on my site too, if you use HCl/Cl to dissolve the foils all is needed is to setup the solution for 24 to 36 hours to allow the excess Cl to evaporate by itself or warm the solution to drive off the excess which is - in my thinking the better of the two options.

Thank you,
Ken


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## anachronism (Dec 13, 2016)

No arguments here Ken. Nailing the HCl/bleach thing is a good starting point for foils and yes most new people use far too much Nitric at outset causing themselves a serious headache. 

That given, there's no "set procedure" for where someone does start, and it all depends how quickly someone can actually absorb the chemistry enough to move to the next stage. There are members on here who aren't past the acid/bleach thing after years of refining whilst others have successfully grasped AR within a few weeks of beginning. Damien Ken makes a good point about understanding it before you begin AR.


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## jeneje (Dec 13, 2016)

anachronism said:


> No arguments here Ken. Nailing the HCl/bleach thing is a good starting point for foils and yes most new people use far too much Nitric at outset causing themselves a serious headache.
> 
> That given, there's no "set procedure" for where someone does start, and it all depends how quickly someone can actually absorb the chemistry enough to move to the next stage. There are members on here who aren't past the acid/bleach thing after years of refining whilst others have successfully grasped AR within a few weeks of beginning. Damien Ken makes a good point about understanding it before you begin AR.


Jon, like you, I have been doing refining a long time and I try to avoid AR when I can for the reasons I stated. You are right in the fact that some members catch onto this quickly, I was not one of them, it took awhile for me to get a grasp on the use of AR. 

The equipment needed to contain and scrub the NOx to make it safe is not as easy made as people would think. Then you have to add the scrubbing solutions, which, one can be dangerous (NaOH) to use. As most of us know one drop in your eye will cause permanent blindness. 

All- in- all Jon i do like the HCl/Cl better.

Ken
edited to correct chemical formula


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## Topher_osAUrus (Dec 13, 2016)

Damien, the one little tid bit you should know about HCl/bleach is that, adding bleach will turn the solution basic, so it can be a delicate dance to get it dissolved and not turning neutral or basic.

What I like to do with HCl/bleach, is have the HCl warm, just barely...and then add just a couple ml of bleach that is mixed with h2o (i do 50/50). It helps to prevent all the Cl gassing off immediately in the reaction and keeps it in solution, to do work.

Some don't do it warm, as that helps liberate the gas, but I like that it actually dissolves foils/powders in a quicker manner.


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> Damien, the one little tid bit you should know about HCl/bleach is that, adding bleach will turn the solution basic, so it can be a delicate dance to get it dissolved and not turning neutral or basic.
> 
> What I like to do with HCl/bleach, is have the HCl warm, just barely...and then add just a couple ml of bleach that is mixed with h2o (i do 50/50). It helps to prevent all the Cl gassing off immediately in the reaction and keeps it in solution, to do work.
> 
> Some don't do it warm, as that helps liberate the gas, but I like that it actually dissolves foils/powders in a quicker manner.




Very interesting! I've taken note, thank you very much!


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

I'd like to take a moment and say thank you to every one of you that have replied so far! This is a great, responsive website, so respect y'all!

I've struck gold with this forum!  (pun intended)


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## UncleBenBen (Dec 13, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> What I like to do with HCl/bleach, is have the HCl warm, just barely...and then add just a couple ml of bleach that is mixed with h2o (i do 50/50). It helps to prevent all the Cl gassing off immediately in the reaction and keeps it in solution, to do work



Try using a long pipette to add the bleach additions to the bottom of the solution. You won't get that instant foam up and release of half the Cl like dripping from the top.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Dec 13, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> Try using a long pipette to add the bleach additions to the bottom of the solution. You won't get that instant foam up and release of half the Cl like dripping from the top.



Ben, you clever ol' dog you!
I just bought a dozen pipettes at the science center, so I now have another use for them!
Thank you sir.


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## UncleBenBen (Dec 13, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> UncleBenBen said:
> 
> 
> > Try using a long pipette to add the bleach additions to the bottom of the solution. You won't get that instant foam up and release of half the Cl like dripping from the top.
> ...



Ha! I'm a big fan of pipettes!

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=23362


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> UncleBenBen said:
> 
> 
> > Try using a long pipette to add the bleach additions to the bottom of the solution. You won't get that instant foam up and release of half the Cl like dripping from the top.
> ...




This is how I'll start out with that process then perhaps! Sounds completely logical to me!


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## Damien (Dec 13, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> Ha! I'm a big fan of pipettes!
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=23362



Really cool thread! I will be looking for some pipettes!


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## Tndavid (Dec 13, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> Topher_osAUrus said:
> 
> 
> > What I like to do with HCl/bleach, is have the HCl warm, just barely...and then add just a couple ml of bleach that is mixed with h2o (i do 50/50). It helps to prevent all the Cl gassing off immediately in the reaction and keeps it in solution, to do work
> ...


Nice tip Uncle Ben. Thank you for sharing..


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## rickbb (Dec 14, 2016)

At $1 each that's about $.9999 too much. There's not even a pennies worth of gold in a single board.

Those 10 boards may not even yield enough gold powder to see.


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## Damien (Dec 14, 2016)

This may be a stupid question, my apology if it is...

If I processed these boards, and the gold doesn't drop from my HCL/CL, does that have to do with the volume of HCL/CL vs Au?

In other words, if I used a smaller volume of HCL/CL would that allow for the precipitation of the small amount of gold?

If this has been answered I apologize, please feel free to direct me to the right thread!


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## rickbb (Dec 14, 2016)

It will still drop, but you will only need a small beaker, (maybe even a test tube), to do the foils from 10 boards.

You will see what I mean when you filter out the foils from the AP solution.


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## goldsilverpro (Dec 14, 2016)

I would guess that the gold value is about 4 cents per square inch of gold plated area. Like others have said, it would have to be free for me to take it and it still probably wouldn't be worth processing.


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## Grelko (Dec 14, 2016)

goldsilverpro said:


> I would guess that the gold value is about 4 cents per square inch of gold plated area.



Are you talking about the really thin gold flashing that can be rubbed off with a pencil eraser?


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## Damien (Dec 19, 2016)

Well, one of the two types of boards have arrived. Seems to be flashed for sure, at least the big circle is, I can scratch it off with my fingernail. 

Oh well, I'm gonna run them in AP and just see what happens. 

I will no doubt loose money here, but I purchased hastily before I found this forum, so I'll just chalk that up on my "rookie mistakes" list. Ha ha ha.

On a brighter note, I've started my e-scrap business and it's off to a great start! I'm now behind in my processing, as electronics are coming in fast!
Today a man said he's coming to recycle some stuff, he got here, opened his trunk, and it was packed! Two satellite receivers, two older cable boxes, a printer with new cartridges, a cell phone, complete working Pentium 3 system, and a wicked backup battery/surge protector he says still works, I'll be keeping that!

Then just now a broken Wii was dropped off.

Can I get a screwdriver clink? Lol


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## Damien (Dec 19, 2016)

Wow! So I opened up the Wii, and was completely impressed! For all you scrapers out there, don't pass up a lot of broken Wii!!! 

I'm posting this in this thread to allow the difference to be seen between playing and flashing. The Wii motherboard is plated, as it doesn't rub off, and is reflective, where as the flashed boards are dull and scratches off easily.


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## Grelko (Dec 19, 2016)

Damien said:


> Wow! So I opened up the Wii, and was completely impressed! For all you scrapers out there, don't pass up a lot of broken Wii!!!
> 
> I'm posting this in this thread to allow the difference to be seen between playing and flashing. The Wii motherboard is plated, as it doesn't rub off, and is reflective, where as the flashed boards are dull and scratches off easily.



Looks good, reminds me of some boards I get from older flatscreen TVs.

You might be better off selling it on Ebay as "non working, for parts only" than recovering the gold from it, or even parting it out. (case, controller, cords, etc.)


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## Damien (Dec 22, 2016)

So the little boards have just arrived. These look a lot better than the other boards, and I would like to say they are actually plated, and not flashed. 
It doesn't scratch or erase off, it is reflective and shiny, not dull.

The real question, how much is on one? How much is on 10? I'll run them and find out!

Attached are a few photos...


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 22, 2016)

In general, dull is better. As plating builds up and gets thicker, it becomes more uneven as little lumps and bumps form (very, very tiny ones), so the plating becomes less shiny and more dull because the light no longer reflects off of it evenly like a mirror.

Dave


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