# tin powder



## pat1 (Jul 17, 2009)

i sure would like to know ow to make a lil tin powder for my stannis, i figured i could just file up a ol tin can....but noooooo of corse it wouldnt be that easy,...can anyone tell me what to do,,..i have a batch ready to go and now im just sittin waiting


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## jimdoc (Jul 17, 2009)

Just check for lead free solder, it is usually
95% tin 5% antimony, and that will work.
Just let the black antimony settle and pour
the stannous solution off.
Jim


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## lazersteve (Jul 17, 2009)

If you have solid stannous II chloride (SnCl2) you can simply dissolve 1 gram of it in 15 mL of 31% HCl with a little heat.

Once the salt dissolves you should have a good test solution. This recipe won't keep as long as the one using pure tin powder, but should work fine for testing. You can extend the life of this version of the test solution buy storing it in a dark space, covered, and with a small amount of metallic tin in the storage bottle. When you suspect PM's and get a false reading, verify your test solution against a known sample of pregnant solution.

Edit:

I just re-read your post and realized you are looking for a source of tin. I sell pure tin for $1 per gram on my website or you can use the solder Jim referenced above. Sorry for the mix-up, but the tin salt recipe is still valid.

Steve


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## greentea (Jul 17, 2009)

Someone posted that you can buy fishing sinkers that are pure tin so I went and checked at Walmart. They were being marketed as "green" or some such thing. They were Eagle Claw brand and it didn't say anything about tin but you could see the color was whiter than the lead shot. I bought a bag of the reusuable split shot and tried it out with some muriatic acid - worked like a charm.


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## pat1 (Jul 18, 2009)

WHEW!... it finaly dropped..thanks for the help guys...


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## Palladium (Jul 18, 2009)

I use tin solder i bought from a plumber supply store for about $ 10 for a 1 Lb roll.


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## stihl88 (Jul 19, 2009)

Pewter cups work great too, and can be commonly bought from second hand stores for a buck and weigh on average 200grams.
Try and get the 97% or higher value Tin content cups.


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## pat1 (Jul 20, 2009)

ok guys
well its been two days now and i thought after adding the smb i made from my tin sinkers my gold had dropped,
but it appears that after 2 days i still just have a nice dark liquid i cant see threw with very little clearing.
so......have i just made some very high priced weed killer? or should i just let it continue setting, whatever you guys can suggest would be appreciated
thanks ...pat


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## Platdigger (Jul 20, 2009)

SMB is sodium metabisulfite.

You do not make this with tin.

What you made is Stanus chloride. Tin metal disolved in HCL.

If you added this to your gold solution, you most likely made a colloidal gold solution.


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## kelly (Jul 20, 2009)

Pat,
Please, please, please get a copy of Hoke's book and study it. Read the posts on the forum, get copies of Steve's fabulous DVDs before attempting to refine anything else. Mistakes are costly, dangerous and just plain unnecessary, with the info in this forum. Knowledge is power and there are many on here with knowledge and the patience of Job who are willing to share their hard won tech, but you at least have to know the basics.
K


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## Palladium (Jul 20, 2009)

Look below in my sig line for the link to Hoke's book :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:


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## qst42know (Jul 20, 2009)

pat1 said:


> ok guys
> well its been two days now and i thought after adding the smb i made from my tin sinkers my gold had dropped,
> but it appears that after 2 days i still just have a nice dark liquid i cant see threw with very little clearing.
> so......have i just made some very high priced weed killer? or should i just let it continue setting, whatever you guys can suggest would be appreciated
> thanks ...pat




Someone here will know how to recover from your mistake. Don't throw anything away you can save your gold.


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## Harold_V (Jul 21, 2009)

pat1 said:


> ok guys
> well its been two days now and i thought after adding the smb i made from my tin sinkers my gold had dropped,


Did I read that correctly, or was the sun in my eyes?

You made *smb* from *tin sinkers?*

One does *NOT* make smb from sinkers, tin or otherwise. If you dissolved sinkers and added the solution to your gold chloride, what you just did was precipitate your gold as a colloid, using stannous chloride. That is commonly known as a _big mistake_. 



> but it appears that after 2 days i still just have a nice dark liquid i cant see threw with very little clearing.



Yes, one that is dark purple to black in color, yes?



> so......have i just made some very high priced weed killer? or should i just let it continue setting, whatever you guys can suggest would be appreciated
> thanks ...pat


Well, I was wise enough to never get myself in that position (I read Hoke. Have you?) so I'm not sure exactly how to deal with this mess. One thing you may be able to do is evaporate the solution until it is a thick syrup, then give it a boil in HCl. It would then be diluted, allowed to settle, and then the solution syphoned off. I would expect that by now, the solutioin would be free of purple color. If not, I would repeat the evaporation until the material was fully dried, then I'd melt the solids along with some silver, to act as a collector. Use plenty of borax and soda ash as well. That should recover the lions share of the values, then you can part the silver and attempt the recovery process of the gold. 

*DO NOT USE STANNOUS CHLORIDE FOR ANTHING BUT TESTING.* Smb and stannous chloride are not the same thing. 

Harold


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## g_axelsson (Jul 21, 2009)

No one advocating incineration? Wow, this has to be the first thread no one mentioned it... ooops.

This is just an idea so the more experienced members maybe could give some feedback before anyone tries it.

I would evaporate the big mess to get a dry mass of gold, tin and everything else in it.
Then crush and incinerate it well, oxidise any tin to tin oxide, copper to copper oxide and so on.
Then leach out any base metal soluble in nitric acid. (My guess is that it would remove copper oxide.)
Then finally use AR to dissolve the gold trapped in the sediments.
Filter the gold chloride. The tin shouldn't be a problem as it isn't present as a gel.
Then finally precipitate the gold with SMB.

Comments?

/Göran


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## Platdigger (Jul 21, 2009)

Well Göran, if I was to go that route, I would first use hcl after incinerating, so that the tin did not become "gell" ( meta-stannic acid), as it does in nitric.
Randy


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## pat1 (Jul 21, 2009)

ok.....i guess what i have done was a mistake,,so how do i make the smb?
or do i have to buy smb to solitify my gold.
i will look into the book for sure,..but for now could someone give me an idea on how to remedy this situation that i have seemed to have gotten myself into plz 
hey...if noting else it was good for you guys to have a laff on the new person.
thanks for your input so far
pat


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 21, 2009)

> hey...if noting else it was good for you guys to have a laff on the new person.


I can assure you that no one is laughing. EVERYONE has been a noobie at some point in their lives.

Buy the SMB. It's cheap and someone can direct you to where you can easily obtain it.


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## pat1 (Jul 21, 2009)

ok.....bought the smb off ebay im sure a lb is pleanty more than enuff for the time being,now i will go snoop for a good recipe for mixing that....anyone have practical experiance witha good recipe you like to use?
pat


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## lazersteve (Jul 21, 2009)

If you follow the*Guided Tour Link* in my signature below I have a list with all of the common recipes used in gold refining.

I use SMB dry.

Steve


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## Harold_V (Jul 22, 2009)

g_axelsson said:


> No one advocating incineration? Wow, this has to be the first thread no one mentioned it... ooops.


Believe me, it was one of the things I was considering. I fully understand the benefits of incineration. The problem is having others understand it as I do.

I stand almost alone where incineration is concerned, with many disregarding its advantages, considering it not essential. In that case, they have much to learn. 

However, in this instance, it isn't necessary, assuming the process I outlined works. Once the particles are boiled in HCl, traces of tin should be dissolved and eliminated in the decanting process, so the remaining material can then be re-dissolved without the incineration process. That would eliminate the base metals instead of drag them through the entire process and having to re-dissolve them. 

A lot would depend on the colloidal gold. It would have to coalesce into larger particles, which is likely to happen with the HCl boil. If they did, they'd settle readily. Dunno----never tried it, as I said. A purple solution after the HCl boil would speak volumes about the veracity of the concept. 

Harold


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## Oz (Jul 22, 2009)

Harold_V said:


> I stand almost alone where incineration is concerned, with many disregarding its advantages, considering it not essential. In that case, they have much to learn.



Too funny!

I just left you an invite to explain it (as you do well) in another thread under processes.


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## pat1 (Jul 25, 2009)

sorry to be a wet blanket,,but your smb soulution in the video is a mixture of water and smb correct?.
after adding smb soulution..i guess it must be fighting the clorox..cause after reboiling/evaporating my high priced weed killer and going threw the prossess again,it is not wanting to drop...ill keep pluggin away


lazersteve said:


> If you follow the*Guided Tour Link* in my signature below I have a list with all of the common recipes used in gold refining.
> 
> I use SMB dry.
> 
> Steve


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## kelly (Jul 25, 2009)

Pat,
Fill in the blanks for us a bit. You started with a colloidal gold solution. Did you reduce to syrup, boil in HCL, dilute, decant? If so, what color was the solution,(did you get rid of the purple)? What did you do then, HCL/CL?
K


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## pat1 (Jul 25, 2009)

pat1 said:


> ok....lets see if i can get this right,i had a few fingers,stripped with acid peroxide,then dissolved with the acid clorox,then some goofy person (me)added stanis cloride thinking that was the precipatant for the gold prosses,
> so....then what i did is i boiled it down on my hotplate to a red/goldish muck (almost dry) then i rehydrated it with the acid peroxide prosses again,added smb that i got on ebay...and bumpkiss no droppage..not even a color change
> so i think at this point what i am going to do is dehydrate it again..until dry and melt the red/gold muck..(dont ya just love my high tech terminology)..thanks for all the input,its always interesting
> pat
> ...


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## lazersteve (Jul 25, 2009)

Pat,

After dehydrating don't repeat the AP process. Instead add straight HCl and filter out the residue. You end up with a liquid portion and a solid portion.


Test the liquid portion to be certain it does not contain gold using a cotton swab and stannous chloride.

Dissolve the solid portion using AR or HCl-Cl. Once the solids dissolve and the oxidizer is removed, filter out any sediment, and add SMB.

Steve.


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## Harold_V (Jul 25, 2009)

pat1 said:


> ok....lets see if i can get this right,i had a few fingers,stripped with acid peroxide,then dissolved with the acid clorox,then some goofy person (me)added stanis cloride thinking that was the precipatant for the gold prosses,
> so....then what i did is i boiled it down on my hotplate to a red/goldish muck (almost dry) then i rehydrated it with the acid peroxide prosses again,added smb that i got on ebay...and bumpkiss no droppage..not even a color change
> so i think at this point what i am going to do is dehydrate it again..until dry and melt the red/gold muck..(dont ya just love my high tech terminology)..thanks for all the input,its always interesting
> pat
> p.s. yes i got rid of the dark black/purple color and its now back to golden,mabey someone ripped me off on ebay and sent me bakeing soda?


It's important that you actually _read and FOLLOW_ the process I outlined. 

By evaporating to a syrup, what you did was concentrate the solution you had, which had colloidal particles of gold suspended. You then would boil the remaining solution with HCl (which would keep in solution things you want to eliminate, and, hopefully, give cause for the colloidal gold to agglomerate, which it appears to have done). *Only after rinsing the remaining solids would you start the process over.* 

As it stands, you had no gold in solution-----that was precipitated by the stannous chloride you wrongfully introduced, precipitating all of the values as the gold colloid in question. You must now get the gold back in solution, but without the presence of the tin, which renders the solution difficult, if not impossible, to filter. 

Please follow the instructions you were given-----and don't get free spirited and creative, repeating the same mistakes over and over. I strongly advise against getting creative until you have a firm understanding of the process of refining, so you can make decisions that are constructive. 

Harold


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## pat1 (Jul 26, 2009)

i apologise i made a mistake in my wording,,,yes after dehydrating i did use hcl-cl instead of ap and then filtered..
problen was when i added the smb it went from a nice yellow to a green,so i am boiling that off again and i am finding that i added way to much of the smb...i have 'lots o sodium"..i do apologise to harold for seeming to be getting...um how do i say it "experimental?" its just it does take time to reply and answer so i read and try...and try and read,i mean no dissrespect for your input...its rather just the opposit i rather value your input.
i would rather learn,,and putz with one batch than mess all of them up,..thats why i havent started te other batches of fingers i have ready to go.
pat


lazersteve said:


> Pat,
> 
> After dehydrating don't repeat the AP process. Instead add straight HCl and filter out the residue. You end up with a liquid portion and a solid portion.
> 
> ...


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## lazersteve (Jul 26, 2009)

After dehydrating you need to wash the dehydrated material with HCl (muriatic acid only!) to remove any acid soluble impurities. After washing filter out the solids and them process them for values. Test the wash liquid for values with stannous.

The acid wash is to remove the garbage. If you immediately use HCl-Cl after dehydrating you are messing up the process all over again. 

Re-read my post you quoted and you should see you are not following my directions, but instead are redissolving everything again before the cleaning step.

Steve


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## qst42know (Jul 27, 2009)

pat1

I don't want to distract you from following the experts directions exactly however your post mentions a few fingers. 

How many do you consider a few?


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## pat1 (Jul 30, 2009)

thanks for all the help
but im going to leave that stuff sit...later on i wil deal with it ,,,its not going anywhere
it wasent many fingers..mabey 50 or so
when i have more time i will try the whole prossess again...and this time i am a lil wiser 
i will be sure to say hey to you all
thanks pat 1 


qst42know said:


> pat1
> 
> I don't want to distract you from following the experts directions exactly however your post mentions a few fingers.
> 
> How many do you consider a few?


i


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## butcher (Jul 31, 2009)

I have dealt with solutions of lead, tin, silver, and gold.in chloride solution.
the tin in large excess is a buggar. making filtering almost impossible.
(by the way aluminum is another nightmare)

here is one way I dealt with it. 
let sit for few days, decant what solution you can, filter this if possible (if not boil to syrup- cool decant then try filtering), seperating liquid from solids. 
solids rinse and incenerate insolubles,(my goal is to rid as much tin and wash salts of as much acid as possible) do not breath any fumes, test liquids for value with stannous.

after good roast add HCL boil good stirring, add copper bar to help cement out values, boiling to thick mud,add more Hcl,cool let sit till as much as possible settles(couple days), decant filter liquid, depending on the troublesome tin content this may take a few go rounds to get the bulk of tin, when HCL has rid most of tin,then filtering is easier. a boil in water and same thing cool settle decant

now we have lead silver copper and gold (some metals higher in the series),
acid peroxide will get the bulk of copper, ( caution on oxidizer our goal is only copper now)decanting ,leaving Gold, lead and silver.
wash powder, add water get good rolling boil stirring well to get lead chloride slightly soluble, lower heat below boil but still hot as possible (slight bubble from barely boil ok, the idea is to let silver chloride settle with the gold and keep the lead chloride hot enough to stay soluble, and sometimes it takes silver chloride a while to settle,we will suction bulb decant off the lead chloride to a jar to cool and settle as white to gray powder.(some silver can be removed with ammonia washes but do not dry out can be dangerous explosively acidify with Hcl-for ammonium chloride and silver.
these processes may take more than one treatment depending on metal contents.
example three boiling washes to rid lead.

Now to get the gold and silver, can be dissloved now with HCL and bleach if these metals are clean enough some silver or if pgms may stay as powder with any non metals, but with boiling you can get bulk of silver and Pgms to dissolve although all may not. now I let sit over night, decant and boil down a little the next to rid oxidizers, then with water dilutions and table salt if nessasary to remove silver another night settling before decanting, then precipitate gold with sodium sulfite or your choice, another night settle before decanting, if light brown powder use harolds wash to clean up but if darker brown redisolve after washing to reprocess till light brown. if platinum will need to concentrate solution and get platinum with ammonium chloride.
hope this helps and I didnt leave something out. 
keep tin or aluminum out of the soup if possible( unless you like trouble and work).


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## markqf1 (Jul 31, 2009)

Lead as well.

Mark


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## Acid_Bath76 (Apr 28, 2011)

g_axelsson said:


> No one advocating incineration? Wow, this has to be the first thread no one mentioned it... ooops.
> 
> This is just an idea so the more experienced members maybe could give some feedback before anyone tries it.
> 
> ...



Just curious, I'm still in the early stages of reading HOKE, but why not just take your mix of gold and other base metals and melt them in a furnace along with a good flux. The flux should draw a lot of the impurities off and leave you with a "sort of clean" bit of gold. At that point you would have a known quantity, more or less, and could devise a better plan of attack. Just a thought. If I'm incorrect, or overlooking something, please let me know. I'm learning something everyday on this forum and through my reading, and it seems like I just end up with more questions too!


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## Harold_V (Apr 29, 2011)

Acid_Bath76 said:


> why not just take your mix of gold and other base metals and melt them in a furnace along with a good flux. The flux should draw a lot of the impurities off and leave you with a "sort of clean" bit of gold.


I'm not sure where you got that idea, but it's as wrong as one can get. There is no reason for flux to draw off base metals---and it doesn't. In fact, it has the exact reverse action---it permits metals to combine. What it does is absorb oxides of base metals. Any base metal that is not oxidized will remain with the gold. 

Once alloyed, most elements are separated only with considerable difficulty. That includes the idea of stratification. Only under unusual circumstances can you separate one metal from another by gravity. 

Harold


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