# Has the forum been offline recently???



## Rachello (Jun 2, 2018)

Hey Guys,

Has the forum been offline for an extended amount of time recently? I have not been able to access it for quite a while & right now is the first time I’ve been able to get on in (what seems like) forever!

I have tried to access it through Lazersteve’s store google, yahoo etc., including searching if the forum was offline or down. All to no avail. 

It has been driving me crazy!! I tediously keep a specific notebook with details on all the things I tend to need on a regular basis. For a lot of stuff I need to access less, I always refer back to specific posts in the forum.

I would normally not even ask & just be happy I am back on, except for a few very specific events. My internet provider is now Spectrum Cable recently changed hands from Time Warner. I have had quite a few issues with both companies (who really likes their cable company anyway). Finally a few days ago I decided to cut the cord & cancelled my internet & cable service. I have been using my phone for Internet through Verizon since. 

All of a sudden I can access the forum again!! Yaaa!! But now I admit I am thinking conspiracy :evil:! Granted it’s been maybe a week since I looked because I couldn’t access it for so long! 

I just wanted to double check any facts (like the forum was actually down) before I delve deeper. 

If anyone has any similar experiences, by all means let me know; I am all ears :wink:.

Thanks!!
Rachel


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## jimdoc (Jun 2, 2018)

Yes it was down.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=26969


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## Justtrynacomeup (Jun 5, 2018)

I almost “precipitated” myself when I noticed it was down. I thought it was gonna be gone forever lmao. I was like “oh no there was sooo much I didnt learn”. Glad it’s back though now. Maybe I can finally figure out why I can make these fiber cpu pins dissolve fully. They’ve like turned to stone.


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## Rachello (Jun 5, 2018)

Carbon Fiber? My Stepdad has a carbon fiber plant where he recycles & molds an amazing amount of things! He actually makes me carbon fiber arrows for my bow. Saves me a pretty penny when hunting season comes around. 

If that is what you are having trouble with, I can ask him his processes for breaking it down. Maybe you can find a way to work it into the process you are already using. 

Let me know if I can help!

Rachel


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## Justtrynacomeup (Jun 5, 2018)

It’s only the metal pins plated in gold. The fiber is sitting separately after I tapped them out. My issue is the actually metal under the pins stop dissolving and began to turn into brick hard clumps inside the glass.


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## g_axelsson (Jun 5, 2018)

Glass fibers with resin, just as circuit boards.

Göran


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## Rachello (Jun 6, 2018)

Hmmmm, I have notes on glass fiber resin....I believe it’s called phenolic resin. My spelling might be off. Let me look in my books & I’ll get back to ya
Rach


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## Rachello (Jun 6, 2018)

I mean no offense, but should I explain in layman’s or...a level above? Lots of posts on here I believe go beyond the individuals common understanding of fact. 

Leaving most not understanding the instructions at the most basic level @ a lot of frustration & mean comments unfold. 

I “think” I know I can help you... but I actually want to help you. 

It’s a huge difference between explaining simplicity to an up & comer than someone that discards my input because they are”learned”, or they have more chest hair!

I have lots of “degrees” but I am first and formost a student. I learn in the lab by my trial & error. While most on this forum will disagree; I believe in hands-on; as long as you are safe while doing it...,,really read the safety advice. 

I will message you my info
Rachels


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## nickvc (Jun 6, 2018)

Rachel if you have a process you believe will work please post on the open forum that way your knowledge will be spread further, if you are worried you may get some negative comments it’s usually over the chemistry rather than anything else, none of us know it all, and maybe it will help refine your process for you or others.


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## g_axelsson (Jun 6, 2018)

If you want to know more about the board material there are a ton of information on the net.
This is a good start : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FR-4

For me it's enough to know that it is virtually inert in the acids we use. Long time exposure degrades it somewhat. If incinerated it leaves a mess of glass fibers behind.
It also contains additives to suppress fire and those could be quite harmful if released when the boards are heated or incinerated. Usually based on bromine or phosphates.

Göran


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## Rachello (Jun 6, 2018)

My apologies...I spent about 5 hours yesterday reading through posts & It seemed as though the majority were really dumb or really mean. I can admit I was thoroughly frustrated. 

My husband sells telecom to pretty much all the big companies. We just did a de-install for Frontier/Windstream. We go through & test all the cards (boards,mod’s). Anything broken we either repair if possible, if not we keep it & anything working he resells. It’s called asset recovery.

We get so much (trailers full) I pretty much cherry pick the “good” parts like fingers & anything gold that is easily removable. Which I then process by various means already well known on this forum. 

I have processed boards but do not like to do it. Toxic fumes are just one of the many reasons why. I do know a little bit about the average card make-up because of the above. I’ll relate what I know & maybe it will help you out. 

A significant amount of the resins used (including glass-fiber resins) are thermosets, which means that they "cure" into a hard final product not to be confused with thermoplastics. 

The majority of Glass fiber used in electronics is an alumino-borosilicate glass. It is famous for having very low coefficients of thermal expansion, making them extremely resistant to thermal shock. 
(~3 × 10−6 K−1 at 20 °C)

Most lab glass & Pyrex is Borosilicate glass. 

Alumino-borosilicate is much more resistant to temperature in addition it is much more resistant to corrosion. 

Alumino-borosilicate used in telecommunications equipment, electronics & circuit boards contains silica oxide, along with oxides of aluminum, boron, calcium & also limestone, fluorspar, boric acid and clay.

Some are more corrosion-resistant when exposed to acids or bases & It’s definitely one of them. Alumino-borosilicate resist sodium carbonate solution (a base) but is more susceptible to hydrochloric or sulfuric acid
Hydrofluoric acid can etch Alumino-borosilicate glass.
Chloride ions will also attack it. Non work very well. In addition all of these things can react with the different chemicals found on the boards

Alumino-borosilicates used to be more difficult to fabricate & were typically found on older higher end telecom equipment. Pretty much everything newer now has it. 

Telecom cards & circuit boards also have usually one of these: trichlorosilane (SiHCl3), tetramethylsilane (Si(CH3)4), and tetraethoxysilane (Si(OC2H5)4). It is what they use to glue the glass fibers together. It is very flammable & is used to create better adhesion to the many different polymer & resin mixes. It is also water repellent. For these & many other reasons a whole bunch of different fire retardants are used. 

It is pretty much a mess of confounding factors. They are designed to withstand the exact things we are trying to do to them. 

There is also an element that I run across on cards that have been corroded. Which essentially is what you are trying to do. It’s called encapsulation (or that is what the tech’s call it). I am not sure why it happens, but it is a huge pain. I set aside anything that has it for another day. 

That’s what I know & hope it helps. If you figure something out, let me know. I tried to sum it up but there is a lot of stuff I left out. If you need more info on a particular part of the board you are working on let me know. I tried to concentrate on the glass fiber as that is what you said you were having trouble with. 

Rachel


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## Shark (Jun 6, 2018)

Very Good post, Rachello. Easy to understand as well.


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## Rachello (Jun 6, 2018)

Thanks Shark!

First I would like to apologize for calling posts “dumb”. It is just, if I hear one more post asking people to read Hoke I might lose it. Although, I would rather have someone ask a question than have them hurt themselves. Please, people! There is so much information out there! 

Study up! There is all the time in the world & your gold isn’t going anywhere until you screw up a process & lose it! Take your time. Refining is a process & no process happened yesterday. I mean the sulfuric cell can blind you, burn you and mar you for life!! Yet people still post pics not using gloves! Sometimes the frustration is overwhelming. 

Again I apologize especially to http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1059 (Göran), I didn’t mean to take my frustrations out on you! 

After re-reading my post I feel I have to make a couple additions...

1) RoHS Compliant:Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive 2002/95/EC, (RoHS 1), short for Directive on the restriction of the use of certain hazardous substances in electrical and electronic equipment. It was put into law in the US on June 1st, 2006. You can look up the rules for RoHS compliant materials but all boards should be labeled with a CE marking! 

Look for it. It makes a big deal on the metals you are working with. One of which is lead. Just as in cuppelation, lead starts to vaporive at about 1600*F but lead oxide starts at 820*F. Oxidation of lead is to put it mildly lead you breath in & if you you do anything of the sort in your house, garage, workshop, machinery bldg you will get lead dust on everything. & in turn it effects every living thing it contacts. 

If your cards (boards) are NOT labeled, then you can tell the era they were made by the shade of green they are. I do not have a color-decoder but have learned to sort them without even looking for a label. They vary from a very dark gold-green to an almost transparent green. 

This greatly changes the rules of processing them. Look first & it will probably save you a headache later! Just thought I would add that tidbit. 

Rachel


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## nickvc (Jun 7, 2018)

Great posts and information Rachel.
The reason the older members try to get newbies to read Hoke is that she covers the basic chemistry in a simple understandable manner that we all discuss and if people can understand what we are talking about it helps when offering advice or help without spending many hours of hand holding a new member through every process which few of us have the time or patience for. It may be an old book that doesn’t cover e scrap at all but it contains many processes which can be adapted for it and the chemistry gives a very good head start to understanding most processes.


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## Rachello (Jun 7, 2018)

If I sounded like I dislike Hoke I didn’t mean to. It’s my bible. 

I bought it off eBay for.99 cents. I can’t believe so much information was less than $1. Nuts what people think is worthless. I read a lot, but it’s so worn soon I’ll need a new one. It’s the most important book anyone can read. & a staple to every refining method I would ever need

I can’t believe, like children so many have to be reminded so often. It’s exhausting & I don’t know how you guys do it. It would be great if we all had to complete a “Hoke” exam with random ?’s before we could ask a question posted to the forum. 

I’m adding exceptions to the rule of RoHS that normally you would not stumble onto, on your own. Selling cards certain company’s request these so I’ve learned the in’s & out’s of the rules of law:

Oc3 is equal to DS3 it’s the highest caliber coax can handle (non RoHS regulated)
Oc12 is fiber (non RoHS regulated)
RoHS is OC-48, OC-192 definitive & TB/ETC is all regulated by the standard (RoHS)
Power/rectifier/controller’s are not under the umbrella of RoHS either. They have special rules that apply to each. Non of which are anywhere near RoHS Regulation. 

Rachel


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## Geo (Jun 7, 2018)

This forum is not only for people who have a great deal of knowledge about chemistry or engineering. As a matter of fact, I imagine that the majority only have a grade school education. Unless the process being described needs to be very specifically detailed in makeup of materials, many will be lost very quickly. There are many discussions where specifics get very meticulously described in minute detail about the material being discussed but it is for the more advanced among us. That's not to say that it is not interesting but rather that it will be lost on the majority. Many here, myself included, have just enough knowledge to be dangerous. It is mitigating the possibility of the dangerous nature of the processes from hurting someone that we are after. Trying to follow some of the processes is like reading the owners manual of an outdated VCR that's always flashing 12:00 no matter what you do short of unplugging it. So we try to not over complicate and use layman's terms whenever possible. Not because people are dumb but to try and help them stay focused.


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## Rachello (Jun 8, 2018)

I actually do have a VCR that flashes 12:00, no matter what I do! I stubbornly refuse to trash it because in reality Where can I get another??? I am now smitten with your analogy  

I have a lot of learning yet to be done, not specific to refining, but in life in general. I talk to people every day that are amazingly smarter than I am myself. 

I have to remember @ one time I was clueless & a teacher took the time to teach the things I now take for granted. I have always “drove” ahead for the next thing I absolutely needed to know. 

Maybe introspectively, I should step back and give thanks to the reasons why I’ve learned so much. 

Try to spread my knowledge rather than judge the clueless (which I once was & still am on lots of levels).

Food for thought,
Rachel


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