# Small refinery??



## toadiesop (Mar 28, 2007)

We have some land in the middle of nowhere that will have a house on it someday, but in the mean time is just used for storage of vehicles and large equipment.

I was thinking about buying a shed such as this....







..and putting it on the land to make a small refinery. That way I can keep everything there instead of hauling it all every time I want to do a batch.

I'm going to construct a "hood" using standard fans and some furnace piping.

Do you think this is possible and SAFE to do in a shed this size (with a gas mask on as well of course)?? 

I'd just like this setup since it's going to be an hour and a half drive to do my batches and I'd like to be able to do it rain or shine.

What do you think and where do you do your batches???


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## lazersteve (Mar 28, 2007)

I have had the same exact type of metal shed in my backyard for going on 7 years now and it's a piece. It has decayed and will be torn down this year. It's thin sheet metal and has rusted everywhere due to the weather. If you were to add acid varpors to the mix, the shed won't last long. If you are going to go with a shed, I would recommend building a small one out of lumber ( if you have any talents in construction ). The moneys not much different and the shed will last longer.


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## toadiesop (Mar 28, 2007)

Thanks Steve. I'm really not worried how long the shed will last. If it lasts a year, I'll be happy. By then I hope I have moved on to something something bigger and permanent.

So refining in a shed that size, with a hood and gas mask is possible and safe?? I guess that's kind of where I was going with that question.

All I really need is a place to protect the chems and equiptment from rain while I'm away. I was wondering if it was safe to actually process batches in the shed as well.

Thanks again.


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## lazersteve (Mar 28, 2007)

If you have the proper ventilation setup and your chemicals are stored and handled properly you should be okay. The reason I recommended not to go with the metal shed is that the acid fumes will attack it rapidly. I'm not too fond of the small, 10x10 or so, space to both store and process in, but I guess it will work in a pinch. You will need to be extra cautious working in such a small area with the vapors and potential spill hazards. Heat build up in the summer will be pretty bad in such a small space as well. Water is going to be another concern for you. I would definitely put together an emergency clean up plan before you get started, sort of a worst case scenario escape route. You will need to consider the fact that any vapor build up in the small shed will expose your bare skin and clothes to hazards as well. Lock up the shed and chemicals when you are away as vandals or kids may wander in and you may ultimately be responsible for what happens to them.


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## toadiesop (Mar 28, 2007)

Thanks again Steve. Yeah, I'm hoping to never have to actually process in there, but like I said, doing batches for me is going to be a one and a half hour drive and and a few days at a time tenting on site. It's okay, I love camping!! The land is in the middle of nowhere, Upper Peninsula, MI

My chances of getting out there to process will be few and far between. Maybe twice a month?? I'm going to make sure someone is there with me when I am working on batches and plan on having all the safety precautions taken care of. But because my time there is limited, I want to make sure I can work rain or shine. Hopefully more shine, than rain though. :lol: 

So my plan is to buy CPU and jewelery scrap on ebay while at home and then go process it for 2 or 3 days straight.

I'm going to build a reverse electroplating system to work on pins and such while I'm at home as well. (using your great tutorials of course!!) 8) 

So you answered my question of "if absolutely needed it's possible to work in there when done carefully and inteligently" Thanks again.

I can't wait!!


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## tarvus (Mar 28, 2007)

toadiesop said:


> So my plan is to buy CPU and jewelery scrap on ebay while at home and then go process it for 2 or 3 days straight.
> 
> I'm going to build a reverse electroplating system to work on pins and such while I'm at home as well. (using your great tutorials of course!!)


Sounds like quite a plan toadiesop! A word of advice though - most CPU's on eBay are WAY overpriced! Be circumspect in your bidding for them! 

Also, if you are doing CPU's the reverse electroplating works really good on the plated square pieces that come out of the CPU's when you break them up with a hammer. 

best regards! 
Tarvus


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## toadiesop (Mar 28, 2007)

Thanks tarvus. About my plan... I'm turning 31 this July and I've always told myself there's no way I'd be "workin' for the man" in my 30's. I'm soooo close!!

And yeah, I've seen what stuff sells for on ebay sometimes. outrageous!. But now, thanks to this forum we can all go into it with A LOT more knowledge.

I've been researching this for a year now and never once did I find someone who would tell me exactly what to pay and expect out of individual pins, fingers, cpus, ect.

I just found this forum last night and now I know all of that info and MUCH more.


GOLD!!!!!


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## Noxx (Mar 28, 2007)

Hello and welcome !
I hope you enjoey this forum ;D


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## austexjwlry (Jun 13, 2007)

Does or has anyone considered using the small plastic sheds you buy and slip together? If so does the plastic hold up to weather? Does it hold up to acid fumes? Would it be a good idea to pour slab foundation for it with a slight dip towards middle of shed so any spills would stay inside?
When you make homemade wine you vent into a fermentation lock, could you vent into water trap, hopefully catching red cloud fumes etc. in it? Like putting small coffee pot in cake pan filled with water with clear cake pan lid on top to catch fumes. Except use blower to force air through larger bath.
Would just be creating different pollution problem but possibly less offensive to wife & neighbors.

Wayne


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## austexjwlry (Jun 13, 2007)

I use a trolling motor battery, inverter, utility light with low wattage bulb
for light sourse in shed.I need more space!


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 13, 2007)

You could build a cheap fume hood. It wouldn't kill the fumes but, at least, it would get them out of the building and give you a place to work.

Build a 3/4" plywood box about 7 feet tall, 36" wide, and 30" deep. Only make the sides and the back. You don't need a front panel. You'll also need a top panel and a shelf panel. Mount the shelf about 3' from the floor. Support it well. The shelf, sides, and the top must be all flush at the front. The shelf is your bench top, where you do your work.

Use an old but good wooden, double-hung, window for the front of the hood. Mount it so it covers the space, at the front, between the sides, the top, and the shelf. You'll have to frame around it, probably, to make the window fit. Frame it so that, when the window is open, you can slide stuff in and out on the shelf. In other words, mount the bottom of the window flush with the top of the shelf. You don't want a lip for things to catch on when you're moving them in and out. 

Mount an exhaust fan with ducting at the top center of the back panel. Run it out the rear center of the top panel, if you're exhausting out the roof. A small squirrel cage works good (scrap metal yards have lots of these). If the fume hood leaks fumes, your blower isn't big enough. An 8"-10" dia. one is a total guess. I think you need about 100 CFM per square foot of window opening. If it's belt driven, you can mount the motor on the very top of the hood, in order to keep it out of the fumes as much as possible.

You can buy a PVC incandescent light fixture from an electrician's supply if you want the inside illuminated. Put it inside at the top front.

You lower or raise the window to use the hood. When the window is closed, the chamber is sealed on all sides.

Keep it cheap and functional. Pretty doesn't count. It won't be pretty for long, anyhow. Paint is a waste of time and money.

Harold mentioned that nitric soaked wood is more apt to burn. This is true. Don't have any open flames. Put a sheet of steel under the hotplate. A Transite shelf covering would be best if you could find it.


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## austexjwlry (Jun 13, 2007)

Goldsilverpro

Thank you sir! I'll build one.

Wayne


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## PhillipJ (Jun 13, 2007)

Wow. All the pictures Ive seen on this site, well, everyone seems to have a mess of junk. Including me. 

Must be a prerequisite to the refining business?


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## Harold_V (Jun 14, 2007)

goldsilverpro said:


> Harold mentioned that nitric soaked wood is more apt to burn. This is true. Don't have any open flames. Put a sheet of steel under the hotplate. A Transite shelf covering would be best if you could find it.



Harold also built a fume hood of fiber glass-----and set his garage on fire in the process of using it. I was damned lucky I didn't lose my entire house. The garage was attached. 

One thing I've noticed in the discussions of refining here on this forum is a distinct lack of incineration, or heating of solutions with a gas (or propane) fired hot plate. 

It's inevitable, folks. If you intend to refine precious metals, you simply must be able to heat solutions, and it's not a bad idea to be able to incinerate the products you handle to eliminate unwanted oils and combustible materials. It would border on the impossible to refine wastes from a jewelry shop without incineration, and that's one of the best possible sources for gold I can think of. 

Do you have plans of recovering palladium with ammonium chloride and sodium chlorate? It is done at a boil------it doesn't work cold. That's just one of many instances where it's important to be able to safely heat solutions. Dissolving platinum would certainly be another. 

I do not endorse a hood made of *ANYTHING* that will burn. Regardless of how you'll use it, it's a potential fire hazard. It's an accident waiting to happen----and could cost you your life, as well as the lives of your loved ones, depending on where you locate the hood. Wood that has been in contact with nitric acid, even nitric fumes, will burn much like gasoline----(think nitrocellulose-----or smokeless powder). Remember the "Oxidizer" labels attached to nitric. 

You've been well informed----there are non-combustible materials available------build a wooden hood at your own risk.

Harold


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## lazersteve (Jun 14, 2007)

Harold said:


> One thing I've noticed in the discussions of refining here on this forum is a distinct lack of incineration, or heating of solutions with a gas (or propane) fired hot plate.



Harold, 

Once again you are dead on. I'm currently at this point in my efforts. I've been avoiding it long enough and it is high time that I design a safe way to 'turn up the heat'

Thanks for everything Harold!

Steve


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## lazersteve (Jun 14, 2007)

Harold said:


> One thing I've noticed in the discussions of refining here on this forum is a distinct lack of incineration, or heating of solutions with a gas (or propane) fired hot plate.



Harold, 

Once again you are dead on. I'm currently at this point in my efforts. I've been avoiding it long enough and it is high time that I design a safe way to 'turn up the heat'

Thanks for everything Harold!

Steve


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## lazersteve (Jun 14, 2007)

Harold said:


> One thing I've noticed in the discussions of refining here on this forum is a distinct lack of incineration, or heating of solutions with a gas (or propane) fired hot plate.



Harold, 

Once again you are dead on. I'm currently at this point in my efforts. I've been avoiding it long enough and it is high time that I design a safe way to 'turn up the heat'

Thanks for everything Harold!

Steve


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## austexjwlry (Jun 14, 2007)

toadiesop,

I bought one of these at Harbor Freight. I love my little blue blowers! Now I have three. I blow glass, lampwork beads, fuse art glass. They help remove heat, fumes from wax burnout when casting, melting metal, soldering etc They even work well for minor water extraction in case of water leaks or flood!
I spent my birthday this year (mid March) in emergancy room in Austin. I had been refineing like a mad dog! Breathing too many acid fumes will Injure Your Lungs in a sneaky way, a little at a time! The senerio was inflame tissues in lungs, making prone to bacterial infection from air we breath, bronchitus, into phenomia in both lungs. Actually quit breathing could not catch breath, like really bad asthma attack.Thought I was going to Die! Truely almost did, in bed for full week!
Now I use my little blue blowers to direct all acid fumes away from me even when doing small batches. They are like $40. on sale well worth it.

Wayne


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