# anyone recognize these ??RAM?? cards?



## dtectr (Jul 6, 2010)

got these from an older networked computer and do not recognize them. Anybody?


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## glorycloud (Jul 6, 2010)

They are 30 pin memory that probably has tin plated fingers. 
Oldies but not so goodies. 8)


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## beachbum1975 (Jul 6, 2010)

dtectr said:


> got these from an older networked computer and do not recognize them. Anybody?



Were these memory modules from an old Sun SPARC station? I just took apart an old one over the weekend and found similar EDO RAM sticks inside. Mine had the silver contacts, as well, so I just harvested and stored the flat packs.

Good luck!


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## dtectr (Jul 6, 2010)

beachbum1975 said:


> dtectr said:
> 
> 
> > got these from an older networked computer and do not recognize them. Anybody?
> ...


 these are like 4MB each! lol my 1st computer was a Commodore kit that my buddy made - it had like 8 or 32 MB - my phone has more than that!
has anyone tested the contacts on these to make sure what they are?
Have you had luck processing the flat packs on these?
thanks


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## beachbum1975 (Jul 7, 2010)

dtectr said:


> Have you had luck processing the flat packs on these?



Personally, I have never processed flat packs, but I am actively harvesting them for one day down the road...

Cheers!

beachbum1975


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## patnor1011 (Jul 7, 2010)

I think that it is better to call those as IC chips no flatpacks. If I am correct we call flatpacks those thin chips from motherboards with golden triangle in corner.


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 7, 2010)

Here's a perfect web definition of flatpacks:


> "A flatpack is a type of package in which the leads are in a plane which is parallel to the substrate mounting surface"



It seems that "flatpack" is a generic term which can include a lot of different types of packages, all of which hold IC chips. It is a package designation and not a chip designation. The term "IC chip" is the silicon chip mounted in the package and has nothing to do with the package. As far as gold is concerned, the IC chip is almost nothing and the package is everything. The package is what protects the chip and allows it to be connected. A pet peeve of mine is when people speak of the entire package/chip assembly as an IC chip - what it is is a chip mounted in a package.

The 2nd and 7th photos (and others) in this link is what we called flatpacks in the dark ages. Please note that they contain no chip - *they are packages!*. They meet the definition above but so do the modern flat square black plastic packages that most of you call flatpacks
http://www.chelseatech.com/packages.htm


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## lazersteve (Jul 7, 2010)

From a technicians view point flat packs are any ic package with more than eight legs that is mounted directly to the circuit board surface without any holes going through the board. 

These can be broken down into more definite groups of quads (legs on four sides), dips (legs on two sides), sips (legs on one side), BGAs (no legs, connections under the package), etc. The term is a nick name given to low profile integrated circuit assemblies* that lie 'flat' against the circuit board and are soldered to the same side of the board on which they are mounted and have multiple legs, hence 'packs'. 

Generally speaking the term is applied to any surface mounted package with 8 or more legs.

The correct nomenclature for each package style and leg configurations are well defined, but are to numerous to mention here.

Here are some example of true package designations:

Ic Packages

As you can see from the short list in the wiki article it's much easier to use a generic term like 'flat pack' for the surface mounted class of packages with more than 8 legs than to muddy the waters with all the technical jargon of the specific package style. When ordering replacement parts or when designing new systems it is a requirement to use the proper package designations.

Steve

* = Edited out the word chip.


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## patnor1011 (Jul 7, 2010)

Thanks for explaining.


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 7, 2010)

Steve,

I was just trying to show the difference between a chip and a package. I know this may seem picky, but it is just one of those things that really annoys me. It's sort of like Harold's annoyance with the wrong usage of the words "refining" and "recovery." For example, you said:


> The term is a nick name given to low profile chips that lie 'flat' against the circuit board



No offense, but I don't see that as being a correct statement. The chip doesn't lie flat against the circuit board. The chip is mounted inside of the package and the package is what lies flat against the circuit board. The chip is not a package and a package is not a chip. The term "flatpack" refers only to the package (see the link I gave) and not the chip. I was in the packaging business for a few years and I guess that made me a stickler concerning this subject.


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## lazersteve (Jul 8, 2010)

goldsilverpro said:


> Steve,
> 
> I was just trying to show the difference between a chip and a package. I know this may seem picky, but it is just one of those things that really annoys me. It's sort of like Harold's annoyance with the wrong usage of the words "refining" and "recovery." For example, you said:
> 
> ...



GSP,

I see where you are coming from. My point was flat pack is a slang term to me. 

The technical term for the 'chip' is called the 'die'.

Aside from the single line you quoted I only used the word 'chip' once, I used package many times. I edited the original post not to include the controversial word 'chip'.

Chip is the slang term for the entire integrated circuit, die and package together, so technically the package is what's resting on the board as you noted and the surface mounted ones are flat more so than the through hole ic's (non-surface mounted types) so to me the term 'flat pack' fits. 

Steve


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## Harold_V (Jul 8, 2010)

It would border on the impossible for me to be involved with this conversation, but my hat is off to you gents for your considerable knowledge. Fascinating, to say the least. 

Harold


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## lazersteve (Jul 8, 2010)

It has actually got me thinking. 

The term chip is the real culprit here. After all the die contains a very small portion (if any ) of the gold that we are all after. The package and the wires connecting the die to the package are where we get our gold from.

I have a bag full of dies and have yet to recover any gold from them. All of the packages I have processed have been leached of their gold and are now trash. The dies are intact, the packages are destroyed.

The chip is technically the entire assembly: die, package, bonding wires, braze, epoxy, etc. otherwise known as an integrated circuit.

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 8, 2010)

Steve,



> The chip is technically the entire assembly: die, package, bonding wires, braze, epoxy, etc. otherwise known as an integrated circuit.


Maybe, the definition of the word "chip" depends on one's viewpoint and we could possibly both be right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your definition comes from the technician's or user's viewpoint. Mine comes from the manufacturer's viewpoint. I once owned a business that reconditioned fully assembled reject IC packages for Intel and AMD. We put the parts on a rail containing a tightly controlled heating element, the brazes melted, the package was held down, and the lid and chip (die) were then plucked off with a vacuum probe. Then, all the gold bearing braze and gold plate was selectively stripped and the package was replated. These were returned to the customer, who treated them essentially as new packages - they put in a new chip and applied a lid. I talked almost daily with the packaging engineers that worked for these companies. When talking to these guys, the terms "chip" and "die" were always synonymous. "Chip", to them, meant the "silicon chip" - never the whole assembly. Chip removal meant the same thing to them as die removal. 

I just spent some time on the internet trying to come up with a strict definition of "IC chip." It's confusing. For example, in one reading, the definition below seems to confine the IC, or chip, to the silicon die, itself. Then, the chip, or IC, is mounted in a package. On the other hand, you might interpret this, the IC, as being the entire assembly, from the way they word it. As I read it, though, the die is only the silicon substrate and the IC, or chip, is a die on which a circuit has been fabricated. An IC, or chip, therefore, is an IC, or chip, whether or not it has been mounted in a package. In saying all of this, since the package is only something that protects and allows the circuit to be interconnected, I can see how the whole assembly could be called an IC, especially from the user's viewpoint.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/IC+chip

_*integrated circuit* - (IC, or "chip") A microelectronic semiconductor device consisting of many interconnected transistors and other components. ICs are constructed ("fabricated") on a small rectangle (a "die") cut from a Silicon (or for special applications, Sapphire) wafer. This is known as the "substrate". Different areas of the substrate are "doped" with other elements to make them either "p-type" or "n-type" and polysilicon or aluminium tracks are etched in one to three layers deposited over the surface. The die is then connected into a package using gold wires which are welded to "pads", usually found around the edge of the die._


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## lazersteve (Jul 8, 2010)

I agree with you 100% GSP, the terminology is different for different fields of expertise. 

For the sake of clarity I'll use the term 'integrated circuit' to mean the entire assembly of components (die/chip, package, interconnecting wires, etc.) and the individual terms to mean the specific parts of the integrated circuit in future references. 

As a side note I tend to use the term 'housing' interchangeably with the word 'package'.

Great discussion, reminds of being back in school at the IC lab!!

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 8, 2010)

I agree, Steve. Good discussion. I certainly learned from it.


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## patnor1011 (Jul 9, 2010)

I benefited greatly from this discussion as there are lots of people here using terms: chip, flatpack, IC. My point was that if somebody here mentioned flatpack, other person might have another thing associated with that term.


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## dtectr (Jul 9, 2010)

Funny -- posts disappear sometimes ...


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