# GSP - ? - film from 1920's - 30's



## kurt (Dec 16, 2012)

GSP - you posted some silver recovery data on different film awhile back but now I can't find where you posted that data.

I had a guy call me the other day & he said he had about 3800 lb of old "studio" film (negitives) from back in the 1920's - 1930's --- also some (more) from the 1960's

any idea on what kind of yeald to expect from those years --- I would expect the older film (20's - 30's) would be better then the newer (60's)

based on silver at $30 ozt my buyer pays me $1.80/lb for X-ray & $3.60/lb for litho --- last batch of X-ray I took in I got $2/lb

I am just not sure if I should buy as X-ray or litho or other --- I called my buyer & he said he didn't know ether & would need to test it.

seller is not local & does not want to send me sample for me to send to my buyer - he just wants a price & I want to be fair

Kurt


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## Pantherlikher (Dec 16, 2012)

Ask about any films as they might be worth more. Even as negatives.
BS.
Still in search of use of a 16mm sound projector to watch some old movies I found.


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## goldsilverpro (Dec 16, 2012)

kurt said:


> GSP - you posted some silver recovery data on different film awhile back but now I can't find where you posted that data.
> 
> I had a guy call me the other day & he said he had about 3800 lb of old "studio" film (negitives) from back in the 1920's - 1930's --- also some (more) from the 1960's
> 
> ...



http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=7361&p=66841&hilit=litho+goldenrod#p66841

Probably stuff in storage from an old photo studio. The negatives for individual customers may be stored in paper envelopes and that could lower the value.

There were 2 basic types of film base made in the early 20th century. Nitrate film and safety film. The nitrate film converted to nitrocellulose with aging and resulted in many fires. The safety film replaced it early on. It was acetate based and, with aging, it produced acetic acid, the acid found in vinegar. From the dates, it is probably safety film but I don't know for sure. I'm thinking you could take a very small piece and light it. If it burns vigorously, it is likely nitrate. If it is nitrate, you'll have problems selling it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose_acetate_film
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose

I have never processed safety film (acetate) photographic negatives and don't know the values. I would expect them to be similar to safety film x-rays (see chart), which I have processed, but I don't really know. What I ran had a strong vinegar smell especially when I crunched some in my hand. In some, the emulsion was brittle and broke loose from the plastic base.

The 60s film could be safety film or something similar to the BMX on the chart. Both have similar values, at least with x-ray film. B&W photo negatives are probably different than x-ray. I just have no experience with photo negatives of any era.

I would certainly want to see the material before buying it. The more black, the better, as in all other film. Explain to the seller that no one knows the value and, to be able to offer a fair price, you need samples. The only problem with samples taken by the seller is that they have a tendency to select the best stuff. Without reliable samples, it's a pig in a poke.


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## kurt (Dec 16, 2012)

GSP - thanks for the link "Silver bearing films" that was the thread I was looking for - also thanks for the wiki links - have not read them yet but will 

Also - yes I want to see the film before buying & want a sample to both test myself & to send off to my buyer - I will talk to him one more time about sending me a 1/lb sample for testing - or offer him $1/lb if he does not want to go for the testing as a blind purchase - his choice

do you think that is a fair offer?

Kurt


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## kurt (Dec 16, 2012)

Just to be clear - my offer to buy at $1/lb for un-tested purchase is because I feel I would be taking a chance at that price --- if he will give me a sample to test I would want to make $.50/lb on the handling & delivery to my buyer - I figure it would be a 2 day job to pick up, handle & deliver - I figure after gas & other expence's I would make $650 - $700 on the deal @ $.50 if he agrees to a sample for testing & I feel that is a fair deal to broker the film

Kurt


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## goldsilverpro (Dec 16, 2012)

kurt said:


> GSP - thanks for the link "Silver bearing films" that was the thread I was looking for - also thanks for the wiki links - have not read them yet but will
> 
> Also - yes I want to see the film before buying & want a sample to both test myself & to send off to my buyer - I will talk to him one more time about sending me a 1/lb sample for testing - or offer him $1/lb if he does not want to go for the testing as a blind purchase - his choice
> 
> ...



I honestly have no idea. It all depends on what you can sell it for. You almost have to work both ends before you commit.


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## kurt (Dec 16, 2012)

Hmmmm - - after reading the wiki info on the nitrate film I am for sure going to want to see & test the film - may have to pass on it

Kurt


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## goldsilverpro (Dec 16, 2012)

kurt said:


> Hmmmm - - after reading the wiki info on the nitrate film I am for sure going to want to see & test the film - may have to pass on it
> 
> Kurt


It probably isn't nitrate but that possibility does exist. It also could be a mixture and, in that case, it would depend on the samples you grabbed.


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## goldsilverpro (Dec 16, 2012)

*IMPORTANT NOTE:* I just found this article and it totally changed my mind about the possibility of nitrate film being in there. The source sounds quite definitive. It says that any collection of photo negatives between 1890-1950 is bound to contain some nitrate film. Scary stuff. Excellent article. 

http://www.nedcc.org/resources/leaflets/5Photographs/01ShortGuide.php

I have never dealt with nitrate film and don't want to. A refinery I worked for in CA was once offered a big refrigerated warehouse jammed full of old Hollywood nitrate film on reels. They were all in metal cans. The biggest danger was in opening the cans. The friction and/or the exposure to air could easily ignite the film. Since a lot of money was involved, we spent a lot of time thinking about how to process it. The only way we could think of was to build an incinerator with thick walls and just do a few at a time, still sealed in the cans. We ended up turning down the deal.

Were it me, I would definitely pass on it. I may be wrong but I doubt if anyone in the country would process nitrate film, even if there was the possibility of only a small amount in the batch. Even if you could find someone, there are surely heavy restrictions on shipping it.

Like I've always said, no one on the planet knows everything about PMs and, although I've been in this field for 46 years, I learn something new every day I'm on this forum.


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 16, 2012)

Question. Would keyboard mylars yield better per popund than most film negatives?


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## kurt (Dec 17, 2012)

silversaddle1 said:


> Question. Would keyboard mylars yield better per popund than most film negatives?



This was discussed about a year ago & I think it was laser Steve that ran a test on key board mylars & it was ether .5 or 1 gram per sheet - there are 2 sheets per key board so it is ether 1 or 2 grams per key board - not sure how many mylars per pound

Kurt


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## etack (Dec 17, 2012)

silversaddle1 said:


> This was discussed about a year ago & I think it was laser Steve that ran a test on key board mylars & it was ether .5 or 1 gram per sheet - there are 2 sheets per key board so it is ether 1 or 2 grams per key board - not sure how many mylars per pound




This way to high or an estimate. This is a recent thread on it and it has your Steve quote mentioned in it. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=14623&hilit=key+board+mylars&start=0

Eric


silversaddle1 said:


> Question. Would keyboard mylars yield better per pound than most film negatives?



From some of the number the other members have posted they look to be about the same for the higher end film that GSP gave in his post.

Eric


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## patnor1011 (Dec 17, 2012)

3-4 keyboards to one gram of Ag


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## glondor (Dec 17, 2012)

I thought we were going to see Chris Owen as a baby on film......



Just Kidding GSP.....


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