# Hot stuff!!



## Strider (Nov 7, 2009)

Hello again! I am a newbie and I would like to find out if it's possible to make and HHO torch at home. I've seen some videos and frankely I love that stuff. Melts anything in seconds and it runs on water. Therefore I find it usefull for making jewellry and some other stuff I do







If it's true that it is possible to make it so simple, I find no problems at reconstructing the scheme on the picture. I have those wires for electrolisis. 

1- What metal should be on end of those wires (in the water) - copper, aluminum or plain steel?
2- How strong should be my battery? Is 9 V enough?
3-How big should be the whole thing and is it possible to make exact working replica from the picture?
4-How do I make/ where do I buy that tip on the torch where H2 burns?

Thank you allot!


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## Irons (Nov 7, 2009)

Strider said:


> Hello again! I am a newbie and I would like to find out if it's possible to make and HHO torch at home. I've seen some videos and frankely I love that stuff. Melts anything in seconds and it runs on water. Therefore I find it usefull for making jewellry and some other stuff I do
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You should use Platinum electrodes. It's going to take a much bigger setup than that to run a torch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water


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## butcher (Nov 7, 2009)

there was a post on the forum, where a member made an hydrogen torch, and used it, there was some pictures and some details, I think his torch nozzle was a hypodermic needle.
aluminum (especially foils) and HCl will produce alot of hydrogen gas (or spent solution's when removing copper and metals from them before disposal), but then you would need an oxygen source.

there were others and discussions of kits somewhere.
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4445&hilit=hydrogen+torch


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## dick b (Nov 7, 2009)

The oxygen source is easy to come up with, most any Home depot or farm supply will sell small propane torch size bottles of compressed O2. The problem is compressing the H to about 5psi to run the torch.
Any suggestions to do that?
dickb


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## Anonymous (Nov 8, 2009)

dick b said:


> The oxygen source is easy to come up with, most any Home depot or farm supply will sell small propane torch size bottles of compressed O2. The problem is compressing the H to about 5psi to run the torch.
> Any suggestions to do that?
> dickb



seal the system, you have to have a safety release, and a pressure switch to cut the power at whatever psi you need.
need anti flash back, and hopefully keep the hydrogen seperate from the oxygen until they mix in the flame.
thats some ideas I have, also not sure you need to be at 5psi. as the gases should flow from the generator and out the nozzle.
May check I think I remember reading a posting by Steve and others that a hydrogen torch needs more oxygen than the ideal mix.

Jim


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## Palladium (Nov 8, 2009)

http://www.contenti.com/products/soldering/110-406.html


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## Oz (Nov 8, 2009)

james122964 said:


> May check I think I remember reading a posting by Steve and others that a hydrogen torch needs more oxygen than the ideal mix.



If anything it requires greater hydrogen beyond the stoicometric ratio. As high as 5:1 for some applications. 

This is based on reading, not personal experience as of yet.


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## Strider (Nov 8, 2009)

Then I definately can do it at home...at leas now without any bigger stash of money. -.-
I saw a video of a guy with HHO torch, two tubes, a small flame, less than a cm in length, and the source of the gas was plainly a balloon of H2. I don't need anything bigger than that, just for some small metal work...but! Where do I get H2 then??


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## Anonymous (Nov 8, 2009)

H2 is easy as pie, exspecially if your going to use a ballon as a ballast. Put some HCL in a flask with a vacuum attachment (use to connect your H2 supply hose) and then drop in a piece of aluminum foil. for O2 use the same set up, but put hydrogen peroxide in the flask and add some manganese dioxide (black stuff from batteries). Put balloons on top they will store the gases, give you a more steady pressure and if you make too much gas they will pop and release the pressure. You will have to use the gas or loose it - the hydrogen will leak through the molecules of the ballon (I think it does just like helium).

When I was down on the luck, I use a set up like this but put carbide in the water to use as an acetylene torch gase sorce.

Jim


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## Strider (Nov 8, 2009)

Thanks!! Only problem is that I have no HCL and absolutely no idea where to get it, I'm not from US


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## Anonymous (Nov 8, 2009)

concrete cleaner is usually hcl, you can also use battery acid.

Jim


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## lazersteve (Nov 8, 2009)

Strider said:


> Thanks!! Only problem is that I have no HCL and absolutely no idea where to get it, I'm not from US




Can you get pool ph decreaser (sodium bisulf*ate*), distilled water, and non-iodized table salt?

If yes then you can make your own HCl if you really want to.

Steve


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## butcher (Nov 8, 2009)

I am invisioning, welding with two ballons, as gas generators beside me, torch in hand melting, and all of a sudden pop, hydrogen oxygen and fire, how did I loose all my hair?
:roll:


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## Anonymous (Nov 8, 2009)

Sounds like a do-able utube monment. But, with some common sense this should be safe to do. I mean heck they did it back in the old days, before they even new what atoms are.

Jim


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## butcher (Nov 8, 2009)

I agree would be easy to do, just that anytime we play with a volitile fuel, oxygen and fire we take a chance of loosing our hair if we are not careful.

when I was younger I had several different types of torches, one had a powder that when you added water it generated oxygen, and used carbide which when water was added generates acetylene gas for fuel, we used metal canisters, as gas generates, it builds pressure, in the container,

one thing about hydrogen is the amount of volume needed to store the expanded gas,(probably why the homade torch's use balloons). I think it is not easily compressed safely, and this is one of the problems with using it for vehicles, there are plenty of guy's here that have expierimented with hydrogen fuel, so the knowledge base is here on the forum,


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## Oz (Nov 8, 2009)

I do not like the idea of balloons. To understand why, fill a balloon with hydrogen and using a 6 or 8 foot stick with a lighter on the end to light it. With the rapidity that hydrogen burns it is more like a detonation instead of flash. You should also use a bubbler between your storage and torch head as dry flashback protectors have proven insufficient all to often. If not careful hydrogen can easily make a bomb by accident far easier than most welding gasses.


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## Strider (Nov 9, 2009)

Welk you are the pros not me, you tell me should I do it or not... :mrgreen:


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## Oz (Nov 9, 2009)

I have researched hydrogen in rather great detail but am no expert. What I do know beyond doubt is that it is far more hazardous than most torch gases as to explosive type results. Having said that, you are proposing using a child’s balloon to contain your gases. Does that still sound like a good idea to you from a safety standpoint? 

As a small test to see if you are making gasses it may be safe enough, but for even a small working model it leaves much to be desired. Try bubbling some hydrogen into soap water on a small scale and put a lighter to a bubble. Then you will have a better understanding of the energy potential in the quantity needed for melting metals. Be careful to have clean underwear available.

You are the only one that can decide when you have learned enough to proceed with reasonable safety. I only pointed out how hazardous it can be so you did not move forward without caution. 

I would love to be able to tell you exactly how to do what you want, but will not until I have done it myself and proven its safety. I do know the hazards however. There is a huge difference between a professional hydrogen set-up and a brew your own rig.


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## Anonymous (Nov 9, 2009)

I would hope that some common sense protections would be in order. I would actually get balloons made for helium - so the hydrogen would not leak through. I would also make sure my supply hoses were long enough to keep the hydrogen (at least) away from any possibility of a spark igniting it. Do Not make HHO - Browns gas type were the hydrogen and oxygen are generated in a one chamber system and mixed all the time. Bubbling the hydrogen through water as close as possible to the torch - to arrest flame - paying close attention to keeping oxygen and air seperate from the hydrogen. I think balloon are best for storage for homemade devises because
if it does and explode, there is no sharp, hard, shrapnel, just large noise that will make you cr** your trousers.

Lastly, dont try and make a large torch, much better to buy something like that. 

Jim


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## dick b (Nov 9, 2009)

I'm not sure about what is required to compress and store Hydrogen under pressure.
I know that Acetylene gas needs to be stored in a cylinder that contains a pourous substance if the pressure is greater that 5 lbs due to its explosive characteristics.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/pdf/standard/hoac1.pdf

That being said, I'm not sure that you can run a H/O torch with less that a couple pounds of pressure otherwise the O pressure will force the H gas back into the storage cylinder and create a very explosive mix of H gas and O g in the H gas storage cylinder. That is what backflow preventers are designed to prevent. It takes some pressure on the upstream side of the backflow preventer to open it and allow the gas to flow out of the cylinder.

I'm very concerned that someone may hurt themselves trying to cobble this together.

Remember the Hindenburg!!! That is what happens when H gas explodes and the very reason that Helium has replaced Hydrogen in air ships.

Please be very careful trying to do this.

dickb


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## Harold_V (Nov 10, 2009)

dick b said:


> I'm not sure about what is required to compress and store Hydrogen under pressure.
> I know that Acetylene gas needs to be stored in a cylinder that contains a pourous substance if the pressure is greater that 5 lbs due to its explosive characteristics.


The cylinder is filled with a porous substance that is, in turn, filled with acetone. Acetylene gas is then dissolved in the acetone. This storage system is stable and can be compressed to a few hundred PSI. The liberated gas is stable up to the point of about 14½ psi, at which point it is very capable of self detonation. Thus the red line on acetylene regulators. 

Harold


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## Anonymous (Aug 10, 2010)

not sure if someone posted on it as i didnt read the whole thread, but i believe hydrogen cant just be compressed, its like Harold said about the acet gas, hydrogen is unstable with, if im not mistaken just a few lbs of compression,. thinking for some reason its around 4.5-5lbs,.. youd need to check on that,. and only other thing i can add,. is,. it only takes a cup full of exploding hydrogen to cause hearing dmg,. so be sure to read up, and be careful


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