# A simple to make jell collector for gold



## Shecker (Nov 1, 2009)

Good morning everyone

I've been doing some research on removing precious metals from high content iron solutions using green methods. I tried the metal proposed by the Japanese -- making a jell from old newsprint using the B Vitamin PABA as a jell activator. I tried it and found it really works but it is a pain stripping the metals from the resulting jell. So I approached this from another direction: Green materials that can added to a complex solution of base metals and remove the precious metals selectively. I tried beans, rice, wheat, barley, kitchen stuff that could function as a collector or a cleaner. 

What I have found that works and collects gold while forming a jell, is Psyllium husks (that's right natural fiber laxative). This is capable of removing heavy metals from the body through its soluble fiber side chain carbohydrate. Why not from solutions?

The next phase is to discover a means of stripping the jell that forms. If it dries it becomes a hard gold bearing mass that would have to be smelted for recovery. But in that case the Psyllium Husks should act as it own reducing agent. 

This is a project I am working on and at this point shows good results. I would appreciate others trying and reporting on this progress.

Randy in Gunnison


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## shyknee (Nov 2, 2009)

your making no sence
please explain the first part with the chinese japanese :mrgreen:


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## butcher (Nov 2, 2009)

I can see sense in this study, plants can pick up metals from soils, organic materials can also be collectors of metals, I have read some articles on expierimenting in this, kind of like collecting gold with activated carbon. or that timbers in gold mines collect gold from the acidic waters. or bioleaching.


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## Shecker (Nov 2, 2009)

What the Japanese discovered (the article is available on the internet under green gold recovery) is the shredded newspapers mixed with the B Vitamin Para Amino Benzoic Acid, forms a gel based pulp with metallic reducing capabilities. They are using it in packed columns as a green replacement for more traditional recovery methods. Gold, silver, platinum, and palladium (and presumably Rh, Ir, O, and Ru as well) reduce within the gel. The Japanese are then stripping the column with thiourea and HCl.

But there are many other things in nature that form gel based collectors. I found that Psyillium husks work exceptional well, collecting precious metals out of a solution mixed with base metals. As long as there is enough Psyillium it will collect the precious metals and leave a solution ready for discharge that hasn't been treated with anything that would be considered to be an industrial toxin. In other words none of our precipitating chemicals are present. I collect the gel on a cotton filter in a five gallon colander and then wash it really well. The next step is getting the metals out. Some will come off during washing, hence the need for an in line filter. What is recovered is in the form of very small discrete grains of metallic metal. 

I'm still working on recovering the metals from the gel. It really holds those metals. Boiling water breaks down the gel. That is what I am using now. But I am sure there is a better way. 

Randy in Gunnison


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## Wyndham (Nov 4, 2009)

Randy, would an acid or base break the gel. Another thought is possibly an electric current?
Just thought I would jump in the jello :lol: Wyndham


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## Shecker (Nov 4, 2009)

I've tried an electric current current and I have tried acids. I haven't tried bases yet. The Japanes leach the values from the gel using thiourea and HCl. I will hae to get some to day and see about leaching it. It also breaks down on drying, leaving a brittle mass that can be broken up to release the metals. I will be trying this as well.

Randy


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## dick b (Nov 4, 2009)

Here's a dumb question, but i'm just thinking out loud. Would drying it and then incinerating it, release the metals?
dickb


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## Irons (Nov 4, 2009)

Shecker said:


> I've tried an electric current current and I have tried acids. I haven't tried bases yet. The Japanes leach the values from the gel using thiourea and HCl. I will hae to get some to day and see about leaching it. It also breaks down on drying, leaving a brittle mass that can be broken up to release the metals. I will be trying this as well.
> 
> Randy



Thiourea is not exactly a green chemical, being a carcinogen.


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## dick b (Nov 4, 2009)

Hello Irons:

Not what I had in mind. If the jell ( Vitamin B & Celulose) collects the metal (like Mercury) would it be possible to dry the jell, then incinerate it, then leach or refine. 

"Gold, silver, platinum, and palladium (and presumably Rh, Ir, O, and Ru as well) reduce within the gel. The Japanese are then stripping the column with thiourea and HCl."

"It also breaks down on drying, leaving a brittle mass that can be broken up to release the metals." 

the idea being to capture the metals and remove the organics before refining.

Just jumping into the thread after reading. 

Thanks.
dickb


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## qst42know (Nov 4, 2009)

How about the enzyme used to remove wallpaper? Perhaps?

It's called DIF made by Zinnser.


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## Irons (Nov 5, 2009)

dick b said:


> Hello Irons:
> 
> Not what I had in mind. If the jell ( Vitamin B & Celulose) collects the metal (like Mercury) would it be possible to dry the jell, then incinerate it, then leach or refine.
> 
> ...



Hi dickb,
I think Mercury would be a problem with incineration, unless it was done properly. 

This technique might be useful for treating mine runoff as a pollution control measure with PM recovery used to offset the cost of operation.


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## dick b (Nov 5, 2009)

Hello Irons:

I guess I'm not making my point clear. Sorry. No mercury is used. Just that the jell collects the metals like mercury does.
I'm over my head here and I'll butt out.

dickb


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## Irons (Nov 5, 2009)

dick b said:


> Hello Irons:
> 
> I guess I'm not making my point clear. Sorry. No mercury is used. Just that the jell collects the metals like mercury does.
> I'm over my head here and I'll butt out.
> ...



No need to butt out. Your comments are always welcome. You have just as much right to make a comment as I do.


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## Palladium (Nov 5, 2009)

Have you tried adding some NaOH to the boiling water to break the gel down ?


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## gorfman6154 (Nov 25, 2009)

According to the all knowing Google, there are many different types of tannins that have a selectivity towards Gold. Here is a short list of some of them.

Rotten lemons, talked about in an very old thread
Grape leaves
Bayberry leaves, good collector of Pt. and Pd.
Quebracho
Persimmon peel gel
Fallen leaves
Japanese Green Tea
Chinese Oolong Tea
Waste paper tannin
Mimosa, the plant, not the drink  

Please note that i'm not a scientist, these are just my observations.

It seems from looking at some of the scientific papers, that they will adsorb most metals from solution. Most will collect a high concentration of PM's, and a small % of base metals.

Some of the tannins are very good selective collectors of Cu, and Cr. It's possible that that you could use one type of tannin to remove base metals from solution, and another to selectively remove the PM's.

Shecker, if your using ore as a feedstock, you might pick up hazardous metals in the mix. None of the reports i've read, mention mercury, or other toxins as these are controlled lab tests. But you never know what is in a ore, so use good sense and proper safety methods.
So caution is advised :!: , if using incineration.

But if you use clean solutions, with small quantities of base metals, you could recover very clean Gold, Pt., or Pd.

As for removing the metals from the complex, they use roasting, or a thio leach. Neither of which are very green, considering these are supposed to be eco-friendly. So, if you can remove the PM's from the gel, thru boiling in water, your far ahead of the game.

If anyone would like some links, let me know, and i can post them, or just Google gold recovery with tannins.

Hope everything is going well for you and your tests, Shecker. 

Good luck, Gorfman


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## butcher (Nov 26, 2009)

Oak bark, and galls, are loaded with tannic acid, I have used it to tan deer hide's, also acorns leached (before eating) make tannic acid,
I wonder if oak would work in this process?


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## gorfman6154 (Nov 26, 2009)

butcher said:


> Oak bark, and galls, are loaded with tannic acid, I have used it to tan deer hide's, also acorns leached (before eating) make tannic acid,
> I wonder if oak would work in this process?



Butcher, Here is a link to a scientific paper for wood based tannins.

It mentions that hard woods, are the best for this type of recovery.


Wood waste:
http://dlwww.dl.saga-u.ac.jp/contents/diss/GI00001422/GI00001422.pdf

One of the nice benefits of using these tannin compounds, is that it adsorbs all the colloidal gold that forms. 8) As the different tannins are selective to different chemicals, possibly you could use a different one to colllect each separate PM, then collect Copper, and then the other base metals. I wonder if you could re-use the solutions once all the metals have been removed.

It would be nice to selectively recover pure metalic gold from solutions, with waste items we have on hand. 

It looks like a little work to activate the raw material, but could be worth it.

Good luck, Gorfman


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## butcher (Nov 26, 2009)

this reminds me of hearing about collecting gold by growing alfalfa over gold bearing soil, where plants are good collectors of minerals, I have not read any details yet from the article you posted above, but this to me sounds close to using carbon collect gold, or also read about japanese scientist expierimenting using fruit as collector of gold,
I dont see how these would be very selective for the specific metals, but I can see how the anion the gold was joined with could make a big difference. thanks for the litature, I will read it, it is interesting. wodering just how much gold this can absorb or collect, I would suspect just micron's, otherwise why would not leave piles by th river be heavy with gold, I suspect they may collect these metals but in micro amounts, which may go to ash or vapors during burning or decomposition to dirt, reading will be interesting and may prove my assumption wrong. as I have heard mine timbers were burnt to collect gold they had sucked up from the acidic mine water,


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## gorfman6154 (Nov 27, 2009)

Butcher, it is apparently very similar to activated carbon. As for the metal selectivity, it is all dependant on many variables. The most important include, in no particular order, Elution time, Ph level, temp., type of lignon used, shaking. It would have similar adsoption rates as carbon. But possibly could be homemade, using waste materials, and cutting out another chemical you have to buy, and from from the mix.

Again, i'm no chemist  , and reading some of this makes my head hurt  . But, i find this topic very interesting. I hope others are interested as well. 

I hope Shecker posts again soon,with some updates on his experiences.

I have more links if you would like them.

Gorfman


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## Rhodium (Nov 27, 2009)

gorfman6154 said:


> I have more links if you would like them.
> 
> Gorfman



Please don't make me beg.


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## gorfman6154 (Nov 27, 2009)

Rhodium said:


> gorfman6154 said:
> 
> 
> > I have more links if you would like them.
> ...



Just got home, but need to run some errands. I will post a few more links when i get back.

Just wanted to be sure there was some interest in this before i spent an hour with my hunt and peck method of typing.

Till later, Gorfman


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## gorfman6154 (Nov 27, 2009)

Rhodium, here are some links on adsorption from tannins that could be used for PM recovery.

Quebracho for copper recovery :arrow: 
http://www.vgtu.lt/upload/leid_konf/yurtsever_et_al_adsorption.pdf

Bayberry abstract :arrow: 
http://www.tinyurl.com/y9a2z8c

Persimmon peel gel for Gold recovery :arrow: 
http://www.linx.hzau.edu.cn/sub/hzsy/other/Persimmon_peel_gel_for_the_selective_recovery_of_gold.pdf

This should keep you busy for now. Will post more links in the near future. One more.

Tannin recovery :arrow: 
http://www.tinyurl.com/yjxvdgc

Gorfman


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