# SubZero,Powdered nitric acid substitute ???



## wop1969 (Feb 18, 2009)

Anyonw have any insite on what this is? does it work? how to make it? 
(SubZero) Powdered nitric acid substitute


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## lazersteve (Feb 18, 2009)

It's sodium nitrate:

soda ash + nitric acid

or 

sodium hydroxide + nitric acid

or just buy it as a fertilizer 16-0-0.


Steve


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## wop1969 (Feb 18, 2009)

is it safer to use to make AR then poor mans AR that produces the toxic fumes?


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## lazersteve (Feb 18, 2009)

There is no difference, both processes are the same, both are 'Poorman's AR' or Sodium Nitrate + Muriatic Acid.

Fume control is accomplished via fume hoods, condensers, scrubbers, peroxide addition, or by controlling the rate of chemical additions just to name a few.

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 18, 2009)

Every process on this forum produces toxic fumes. You just need to learn how to deal with them.


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## wop1969 (Feb 18, 2009)

that is what I figured, the add I found on ebay talked about this chem and did not mentoin any of the dangers, WOW, any idiot can buy this stuff and get hurt easy....

well I am thinking of building a fume hood that has a pipe that goes to a drum type container of water that is sealed and has a vacume on it to draw the fumes into it, then add some items like baking soda or ash or any thing that will nutralize acid so when the fumes are drawn into the water the acid will be nutralized??? sound like a good idea??

I dont have a ton of money to buy a hood but I got lots of junk and lots of tools to build things so I just need to figure out what to imprenate the water with that will make the air safe coming out the other end... Suggestions?


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 18, 2009)

Sounds good to me. The success of your exhaust system will depend on the amount and speed of the material being exhausted. The bigger, and the slower, and the less air that is introduced for dilution of the fumes, the better. Just smell it on the other end.


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## wop1969 (Feb 18, 2009)

Uhh, I dont plan on ever smelling anything


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## Palladium (Feb 19, 2009)

wop1969 said:


> Uhh, I dont plan on ever smelling anything



He got you there Chris. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 19, 2009)

> Uhh, I dont plan on ever smelling anything



Do you mean that your design would be so good that you couldn't possibly smell anything or that you didn't want to bother to smell it. I would try to achieve the former.


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## wop1969 (Feb 19, 2009)

I am hopein for both


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## Lou (Feb 19, 2009)

Eh, smelling something is relatively safe, at least with what we do. If you're not coughing/hacking after it and you don't cringe when you smell it, chances are, you're below the danger zone. My advice: get the MSDS--generally they overexaggerate, but it's always better to be safer than sorrier.

Really, you don't think that the NOx fumes you smell coming off EVERY diesel truck are good for the health either? I seem to recall a study that said being outside a truck spot for a length of time was far worse than the same amount of time spent in a packed bar filled to bursting with smokers.


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## wop1969 (Feb 19, 2009)

Lou said:


> Really, you don't think that the NOx fumes you smell coming off EVERY diesel truck are good for the health either? I seem to recall a study that said being outside a truck spot for a length of time was far worse than the same amount of time spent in a packed bar filled to bursting with smokers.



Good Point :wink:


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## jsargent (Feb 19, 2009)

Lou said:


> My advice: get the MSDS--generally they overexaggerate, but it's always better to be safer than sorrier.



That reminded me of the MSDS sheet I read for Normal Saline Solution... If you get it in your eyes it says to "Rinse eyes with Normal Saline Solution" LOL

The most dangerous chemical I know of, at least in terms of numbers of deaths per year, is dihydrogen monoxide. Nasty stuff. The real tragedy is that there exists a perfectly safe substitute with which to detoxify it... our old friend ethanol. In fact, in the proper ratio with dihydrogen monoxide, say 40/60 an azeotropic mixture is formed having powerful health-promoting qualities and, when consumed, some report a remarkable lightening of the spirit and improvement in mood. Long term studies have shown the proper storage container containers for this substance to be charred oaken barrels. Oddly enough, the longer it's stored, the pricier the final product. In fact I think I'll shuffle over to my cabinet and titrate out an ounce or two right now, it being Thursday night and all. :wink:


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## wop1969 (Feb 19, 2009)

jsargent said:


> Lou said:
> 
> 
> > My advice: get the MSDS--generally they overexaggerate, but it's always better to be safer than sorrier.
> ...




You went way over my head on that one, But i did get a good laughf out of the saline MSDS


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## wop1969 (Feb 19, 2009)

what is dihydrogen monoxide?


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## Palladium (Feb 19, 2009)

That's some mean stuff there :shock: :shock: :shock: 

Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide: The Invisible Killer


Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, bloating, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death. 
Dihydrogen monoxide is also known as hydroxl acid, and is the major component of acid rain. It: 
•	contributes to the "greenhouse effect." 
•	may cause severe burns. 
•	contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape. 
•	accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals. 
•	may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes. 
•	has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients. 
Contamination Is Reaching Epidemic Proportions!
Significant quantities of dihydrogen monoxide have been found in almost every stream, lake, and reservoir in America today. But the pollution is global, and the substance has even been found in Antarctic ice. DHMO has caused millions of dollars of property damage in the midwest, and recently California. 
Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used: 
•	as an industrial solvent and coolant. 
•	in nuclear power plants. 
•	in the production of styrofoam. 
•	as a fire retardant. 
•	in many forms of cruel animal research. 
•	in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical. 
•	as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products. 
Companies dump waste DHMO into rivers and the ocean, and nothing can be done to stop them because this practice is still legal. The impact on wildlife is extreme, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer! 
The Horror Must Be Stopped!
The American government has refused to ban the production, distribution, or use of this chemical compound due to its "importance to the economic health of this nation." Worse, military organizations--- the Navy is the worst offender--- are conducting experiments with DHMO, and designing multi-billion dollar devices to control and utilize it during warfare situations. Other branches of the military receive tons the substance through a highly sophisticated distribution network that's hidden underground, away from public scrutiny. Many military facilities store large quantities of DHMO for later use!
It's Not Too Late!
Act NOW to prevent further contamination. Find out more about this dangerous chemical. What you don't know can hurt you and others throughout the world.


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## wop1969 (Feb 19, 2009)

dihydrogen monoxide = you almost got me  but thanks to wiki I only feel half as dumb now


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## Palladium (Feb 19, 2009)

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

For sale : one slightly used skyhook


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## wop1969 (Feb 19, 2009)

ok now that you got that out of the way  no more missleading gags, I dont want to kill myslef and I am at the mercy of this forum as I begin to learn about chemistry, but that was a good joke, it really showed the noob in me but also shows that I am paying attention and googling things


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## Palladium (Feb 20, 2009)

wop1969 said:


> ok now that you got that out of the way  no more missleading gags, I dont want to kill myslef and I am at the mercy of this forum as I begin to learn about chemistry, but that was a good joke, it really showed the noob in me but also shows that I am paying attention and googling things



:wink: :wink: :wink:


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## Harold_V (Feb 20, 2009)

jsargent said:


> in the proper ratio with dihydrogen monoxide, say 40/60 an azeotropic mixture is formed having powerful health-promoting qualities and, when consumed, some report a remarkable lightening of the spirit and improvement in mood.



To say nothing of giving one the impression that they are also a very good singer.  

Scotch and water for me, thanks. 

Harold


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## hosef (Feb 20, 2009)

Palladium said:


> The Horror Must Be Stopped!
> The American government has refused to ban the production, distribution, or use of this chemical compound due to its "importance to the economic health of this nation." Worse, military organizations--- the Navy is the worst offender--- are conducting experiments with DHMO, and designing multi-billion dollar devices to control and utilize it during warfare situations. Other branches of the military receive tons the substance through a highly sophisticated distribution network that's hidden underground, away from public scrutiny. Many military facilities store large quantities of DHMO for later use!
> It's Not Too Late!
> Act NOW to prevent further contamination. Find out more about this dangerous chemical. What you don't know can hurt you and others throughout the world.



I reject the national governments power to ban anyone from doing anything.


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## Palladium (Feb 20, 2009)

hosef said:


> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> > The Horror Must Be Stopped!
> ...




Do you believe it's safe to sell DHMO to the general public and for people to use it ?


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## nicknitro (Feb 20, 2009)

Help I just consumed 16 ounces of DHMO. What will remedy this situation, more ethanol?

NickNitro


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## JustinNH (Feb 20, 2009)

I think it should be a requirement to understand DHMO before further processing of scrap involving chemistry 

My old chem teacher used to say DHMO is absolutely horrible... many people die a year from inhalation..


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## hosef (Feb 20, 2009)

To Palladium,
No, I do not think it is safe to sell DHMO. However, if you give the government that power then they will ban what ever they want to.

To nicknitro, 
Sorry man, I don't know how to fix that.

To justinNH,
Once again, don't let the government do it. Teach people about the effects of this chemical. When somebody knows about it they will quit buying products containing it. Over time loss of consumers would force them to change their practices.


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## Harold_V (Feb 21, 2009)

hosef said:


> To Palladium,
> No, I do not think it is safe to sell DHMO.


Funny, people have been paying hard earned money for the stuff when it comes from the tap almost free of cost. 

Harold


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