# gold filled? 1/20 1/10 ???



## bid_slayer88 (Feb 19, 2010)

Whats gold filled jewlery 1/10,1/20 worth to refine any speacial prosses? Is it worth it? and yes I searched all the formus to see if this has been brought up I saw nothing. Reason I ask is I have 3-4 onces of 1/20,1/10 gold pocket watches rings ect... Any help would be great thanx


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## jimdoc (Feb 19, 2010)

Here is some info;
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=gold+filled+&num=1000&ft=i&as_sitesearch=goldrefiningforum.com%2Fphpbb3&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any

Found using Steve's search;
http://goldrecovery.us/forum_search.php


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## leavemealone (Feb 19, 2010)

Lazersteve has an excellent video,showing processing gold filled jewelry step by step.It is available on his website http://www.goldrecovery.us/pricing.asp It's number 2 towards the bottom of the list.I have all of his dvd's and recommend them highly.(They are shipped fast).
Johnny


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 19, 2010)

If what you have is brand new, you would theoretically have between .06 (3 oz, 1/20, 10K) and .20 (4 oz, 1/10, 12K) troy oz of gold total - between $66 to $220 total, at a $1100 gold market. If it isn't brand new, a lot of this gold could be worn off and the value could be much less. Now, all you have to do is recover all of what is there.


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## bid_slayer88 (Feb 20, 2010)

Well it seems in this game that computers are the " mine" for the refiner do to certain parts, I guess what I was getting at is am I better off processing 1 once of lets say 12kt glass rims vs 20 cpus? Do to my lack of knowledge of gold content of a computer ans the parts, what would have more gold? it seem to me 1/20 or 1/10 jewlery am I right or wrong? it also seem easy to prosses jewlery to. Thanx million guys that stuff helped me out alot! thanx for aLL THE HELP EVERY ONE SLOWLY BUT SURELY!!! :lol:


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## leavemealone (Feb 20, 2010)

There is no type of E-scrap(that includes cpus)that I have ever seen that can come close to comparing to the gold content of gold filled jewelry.Gold filled jewelry that is 1/20th 12k can contain up to $350-$400 of Gold.I've never seen any computer material that contains that much gold per pound,and I live next door to the NASA/Kennedy Space Center.And I got a load from the department of defense last year.
Johnny


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## bid_slayer88 (Feb 20, 2010)

OH MY HEAVENS FOKES!!!!!! HAVE I HIT THE JACK POT????? I dig old bottle right it my thing k, I dug a gold bottle long time ago it had some of the contents( gold) still in it thought maybe it was fake or it was to good to be true soo I put it on a shelf intil now and I know the bottles from 1890-1895 it comes out as pouder I might have 2-3 grams of scrapings. No that I'am trying to refine every thing is sticking out to me lol. The gold is sticky and sticks to every thing thats not glossey. If this is like a minni bottle of just gold layering stuff what do you thing its worth or purity ? Any history about it perhaps or how they did stuff back then?


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## butcher (Feb 20, 2010)

does it float in water? in test tube dissolve a small sample in HCL/bleach heat to remove oxidizer, test with stannous chloride,
you may have gold, but remember alot of things glitter.


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## bid_slayer88 (Feb 21, 2010)

50% float other doesn't more or soo bigger pices go to the bottom. It stickes to paper,fingers every thing thats not glossy. I broke the bottle and scrapped every last flake out. its in a bag in front of me :lol: think a picture you guys could guess, give ideas? I held a magnet over it and nothing stuck thats good I know that!! can you explain " HCL/bleach heat to remove oxidizer" I'v heard of it before but there a zillion things I have to remeber it get frustrating some time. thanx OH back to the 1/10 and 1/20 gold jewlery if cpus never even come close to the gold content then why buy 20 cpus for lets say $30 Vs $ 30 1/20 10kt heavy pocket watch? some thin do line up here am I missing some thin? thank guys slowly but surely!


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## butcher (Feb 21, 2010)

muratic acid (hydrochloric acid) HCl mixed with an oxidizer like bleach will dissolve gold, making gold a chloride, if no other metals are in solution it would change to a yellow liquid, 

stannous chloride, tin and HCl is a test solution, you can get 95% tin solder and dissolve in muratic acid, to make stannous chloride,

the stannous chloride will precipitate the gold from your solution (giving up its electrons to gold so gold will turn back to metal) and this change colors of the drops of liquid on a paper or Qtip, giving us a way to determine if was gold in our solution

oxidizers are what helps gold dissolve by taking gold electrons so then the gold will make a salt (here dissolved in solution) with the hydrochloric acid making the dissolved salt gold chloride,
as long as the oxidizers are still strong in solution, gold will have a hard time precipitating or in our case here show up by changing colors in our spot test.

chlorine from bleach will dissipate if we just let it sit in the sun, or we can heat it , to lower its abillity to take electrons from our gold trying to precipitate back to metal.

this can be done with a very small portion as all you need is a drop or two, this will be a good way to start learning all of this, as testing is a very big portion to success, look through the forum gather information on testing, do expieriments

usually we use nitric as the oxidizer (nitric alone, or different strengths of aqua regia for testing). I did not know if you had acsess to nitric? so my suggestion to using sodium hypochlorite (bleach).

also you said you had chunks you can also do a scratch test, and useing acids (or even HCL/bleach), with this you can even get approximate karat,
these will be great chance for you to learn all this, and if you are interested the study will be fun, and rewarding in your head and pocket. have fun keep us posted you may teach us a few tricks you learn.

can somebody also point him to pawn brokers testing booklet?


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## nickvc (Feb 21, 2010)

Over the years i have had many boxes bags phials and books of supposed gold leaf / powder and 99% are just brass,try a drop of nitric on a small sample of the powder if it fizzes and turns green you have brass


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## jimdoc (Feb 21, 2010)

butcher said:


> can somebody also point him to pawn brokers testing booklet?



http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3624&p=30753&hilit=pawnbroker+bob%27s#p30753


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## bid_slayer88 (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanx butcher!!!! that realy made alot of sense now! can't thank you enough little busy at work but I'll try this week end! But hey nickvc I didn't pick this up at a yard sale or ebay I found this 11 feet in the ground in a layer of ash from a old bottle dump back in the 1880-1895 making me a think it might be some thing? but hey thanx every one! slowly but surly


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## bid_slayer88 (Feb 23, 2010)

butcher, did little thinking on what you said and what you gave directions for is that called the "Wohlwill process" ? thanx


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## bid_slayer88 (Feb 23, 2010)

wait? I'am very confuzzed thristy for knowledge :twisted: and think I thought ar is the only thing that desolved gold? sooooo bleach and hydrocholric acid does? or I'am most likely missing some thing here. lol


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## jimdoc (Feb 23, 2010)

You really should watch all of Steve's videos on his website. I think you will be happy you did.

Jim


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## aflacglobal (Feb 23, 2010)

bid_slayer88 said:


> wait? I'am very confuzzed thristy for knowledge :twisted: and think I thought ar is the only thing that desolved gold? sooooo bleach and hydrocholric acid does? or I'am most likely missing some thing here. lol




Any solution containing chlorine ions is capable of dissolving gold. 

Oxygen from the air can get absorbed into HCl and oxidize gold. The gold ions then form complexes with the chlorine ions to give auric chloride. 

The truth is a very tiny amount of gold will dissolve in HCl until all available oxidizers are used up. This amount may not be detectable. 

Acid peroxide is just a weak form of aqua regia. Aqua regia works by having the nitrate ion oxidize gold as ions and allowing chloride ions to form complexes. This is why you don't need nitric acid to make a gold dissolving solution: just use sodium nitrate (which is an oxidizer) for poor man's AR. Those brown fumes come from the nitrate ions being reduced by the gold as the nitrate ion gives up oxygen to become NO. 

Acid peroxide is the same idea. Instead of nitrate as an oxidizer, you're using hydrogen peroxide, which is also a powerful oxidizer. The hydrogen peroxide oxidizes the gold and the chloride ions form soluble complexes. Also happening is the dissolution of oxygen into the acid, which helps dissolve gold. 

Nitric acid will actually dissolve a tiny undetectable amount of gold into ions, but since gold will not form soluble compounds with the nitrate ion, the gold does not continue to dissolve. 

The reason why nitric acid will dissolve base metals such as copper very fast while hydrochloric acid will not dissolve it fast is because HCl is a non-oxidizing acid. 

HCl cannont oxidize copper metal into an ion so the copper stays intact. It will react with oxides of copper forming water with the oxygen and hydrogen ion leaving a copper ion to form a compound with the chloride ion. If there is oxygen in the air that can dissolve into the acid, then that dissolved oxygen can oxidize the copper which then forms compounds with the acid. In effect, the acid makes the copper corrode from the air faster because the chlorine is stripping away the protective oxide layer. 

Nitric acid is different because it can oxidize copper. The nitrate ion plays a dual role. Free nitrate ions give up oxygen to oxidize copper. The oxidation of copper simultaneously reduces the nitrate ion into nitrogen monoxide gas. Free hydrogen ions combine with oxygen to form water and free nitrate ions combine with the copper ion to form copper nitrate. 

The reason why AP is prefered over AR is because it doesn't give off horrible fumes. Gold is least likely to dissolve in both AR and AP, but each metal does not dissolve precisely sequentially. There is some overlap. Galvanic action can help make the process more sequential, but not everything is electrically connected so it doesn't happen effectively. 

You can in theory dissolve base metals only with aqua regia by controling the amount of nitrate ions you put into the acid. The reason why AR dissolves everything is because we make it such that it will dissolve everything, but if we limit the amount of nitric acid or NaNO3, then we mimick the effect that acid peroxide does. 

AP will dissolve everything like AR does if and only if you put in wayyyyyyyy too much peroxide without diluting it too far. It will take a long time but it will happen. 

When an AP batch is done, the reason why gold flakes remain is because the oxidizer is all used up, and gold chloride displaces base metals and gets deposited as a black powdery film. 

badastro


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## aflacglobal (Feb 23, 2010)

The ratios of HCl to Clorox vary with the amount of gold you want to dissolve. The idea is to generate only enough Chlorine to dissolve the foils or powder. The HCl solution will not hold all the chlorine generated if we just dump it all in, so we add small amounts of Clorox to generate just enough gas to dissolve the gold. With thick foils or chunky gold powder it may take a few washes of HCl-Cl to fully dissolve all the gold and possibly even heating. Remember the hotter the acid the less chlorine it can hold, but the more reactive the chlorine is. 

The main idea is to use the chlorine as it's generated to dissolve the gold, so it doesn't dissipate away into the air wasting the gas. By adding a little water you can increase the amount of chlorine that will remain in the solution, but the reactivity of the solution will decrease. 

Optimally you want a Chlorine saturated solution of concentrated HCl and very thin foils or fine gold powder. The colder the solution the more chlorine it will hold. If you over do it with the Clorox or heating you just get a big cloud of wasted chlorine. A trick I've learned is to stir the warm solution to get the foils/powder in contact with the chlorine gas before it is exhausted from the solution. The solution is warmed by the reaction, not by heat addition under normal reaction conditions. I heat solutions when I am dissolving tougher gold filled shells and hardened powders. 

The math for the chlorine water recipie calls for nearly equal parts of 32% HCl and 5% Bleach plus water. I designed this method to use as little water as possible to keep the HCl and Chlorine concentrations high. 

If I have not explained this clearly feel free to ask more questions. 

Steve


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## butcher (Feb 24, 2010)

:lol: 
(Gold is least likely to dissolve in both AR and AP, but each metal does not dissolve precisely sequentially.)
I am assuming you are comparing gold to other metals like copper here.
thanks

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Wohlwill+process&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&fp=a048890d3c90c6fc


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## bid_slayer88 (Feb 24, 2010)

I understand 75% of it thanx! I did 100ml of hydrocloric acid and 100ml of bleach, 50% 50% now I know I shouldn't have, but it turned out ok, some what. stupied me I poured in my gold powder ALSO stupied me rolled gold ring stupied stupied stupied becuase with it being only rolled gold the copper under it contaminated my experiment on the gold dust, and every thing turned green/yellow but 80% of the dust disappeared? oh I haven't looked this up but ( and yes tell me to search forums if need lol) what sorta gas mask would filter such toxic posion as bleach/ acid, nitric with copper, ect ? I know they rate them can't rember but yah the bleach and hydrochloric acid was I'd say sota sucess on proving my powder too perhaps? 80% gold making it say around 18-20kt? but with the gold rolled ring never no for sure right? stupied me. can't say it enough guy thanx million !!!! :lol:


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## butcher (Feb 25, 2010)

with that much oxidizer, you may need to add more gold filled, to use up oxidizer, testing with stannous may not show if too much bleach in solution, if nothing else after decanting powder try a test, on a small amount heated to drive off chlorine, if still gold in solution use this for another batch.


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## bid_slayer88 (Mar 2, 2010)

thank you butch I will try it when i'am not bizzy with work and let you know.


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