# Waiver Of Liability?



## Ian_B (Jul 27, 2007)

Good Day All 

Today I went to a local computer store and conversation got around to scrap/junk computer parts. I eventually asked him if he would like to have me take away some of his filled basement of "junk"

The only concern he had was that if anything was to happen he would be held liable eg. the proper disposal, fumes from burning the boards (which I do NOT plan to do, etc etc

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if so how did they get around this? Sign a waiver maybe?

also he gave me his business email addy to explain more as to what I plan on doing with the parts.

If I could get some help from someone who might have been through this or has insight into how to calm this fellows worries I would be very greatful.

thank you 

Ian


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## hyderconsulting (Aug 10, 2007)

Well, Ian, here's what I would advise you to do. Move on and ignore him as a supplier of scrap. Yes, you can figure out about getting a liability waiver signed and so on but to me it is a lot of extra work for your scrap money. And I don't like it when paranoid people start talking about liability, legal problems and so on. The point is that you can probably find 20 more places to give you electronic scrap with no questions asked for every one that brings up this issue. You know that you are environmentally responsible. You don't have to prove it on paper. Now him asking questions about what you do with the scrap is alright. I'm quite upfront on this with anyone. I tell everyone I will dispose of the items by recycling them in a resonable manner and environmentally safe way. I never claim to be able to recycle everything in the electronics. Some stuff will wind up in the dumpster. It can't be helped. Now I don't know what the laws are in Canada but here in the States you don't have to be certified or licensed to be a small or private recycler (Praise the Lord!). The only paperwork I ever sign would be to confirm recieving what I picked up as scrap. I've been in this business for years and regularly pickup truckloads of electronics from schools, government offices, huge corporations and no paperwork is involved. This is a plus to my business because all of the people I deal with don't want the blasted paperwork either. I pick up surplus computers from attorney's offices. They don't even ask for liability waivers :shock:!!!! 

Now keep two things in mind about this computer shop dealer guy. By th way they are usually the most paranoid ones. Must be something they keep reading about in their trade magazines on lead poisoning in their computers, anyhowwwwwwwwww: One, what was he doing with his junk stuff before you came along? Throwing it in a dumpster? Leaving it out on the sidewalk to mysteriously disappear? You never completely avoid liabilty in anything you do in business. Two, if he wants everything to be disposed off in a totally environmental correct way there are companies out there that do that. They give you all kinds of legal paperwork to prove that for you and it will cost a fortune. Advise him to contact one!!!! The disposal cost will equal or exceed the original cost of the computers. You just mosey along down the street to his compeititor next door and help him hold dumpster costs down by getting rid of his computers.

Regards, Chris.


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## aflacglobal (Aug 10, 2007)

Hey, long time no see Hyder. 
You are corect, as of todays date. In the next 2-3 years this will all change. They are currently writing laws that will change all this. Not for the little guys, but it will effect them neverless.

These new laws will give big tax breaks for corporations and business
who recycle with Approved recyclers. When they order new systems they can get as much as a $ 30 tax break per system. :shock: 

The trick is they have to get a certificate from the recycler to present before they can get this break. That means the recycler has to be registered to. Now this won't shut everything down, but it will have a large impact overall in the market. The next step is for the epa to regulate the dumping issue. Now if i'm a small business that does do electronics work the last thing i need to deal with is the epa. So i am going to get that tax break and play it safe instead of getting me a fine. Computers are not the only thing. Anything with a transistor in it will fall into this catagory.


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## hyderconsulting (Aug 10, 2007)

Thanks for the update, Ralph. I had been hearing rumors and tidbits about this legislation. My worry would be if to get registered or certified as an electronics recycler it will cost something rediculous like $500 or more. I'm actually not worried about myself finding enough stuff to dismantle. I know where all the hiding places are . My concern is for the other little guy who has to get legalized so to speak to keep his current supply train of electronics. Regards, Chris.


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## Ian_B (Aug 10, 2007)

Thanks for the help guys.

I sent an e-mail a few days after I started this thread no answer.
I went in again a few days ago the propriater wasnt in. I've pretty much moved on from this one.

The only thing that has me interested is that I have talked to one of his employee's who said that they toss all their computer "Junk" into the basement and its FULL.

I might stop in one more time and see whats up instead of sending another e-mail, mainly because its easier to ignore an e-mail then it is a person right in front of you.


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## aflacglobal (Aug 10, 2007)

Actually i heard $ 1500 per year. Their are usually two categories the EPA like to use for figuring recycling. They are called minor and major source . 

I always try and fall in the minor placement. The major placement is for large corporations mostly. Most small recyclers will fall into the minor placement. The difference for them being placed in these consist of several things. 

The amount of pollutions produced. Lbs per year.

The type of pollution produced Acid, dust, air, ground, water, etc

The amount of product processed per annum and the make up of such.

These are the top three they use to classify you for your permit.
Wastes issues fall under a separate permit and issue. ( more money and paperwork ) 

Most follow federal guidelines, But good old Tenn. where you are from has their own state agency that oversees this. The Federal EPA allows some states to do this. Try and let something run in a storm drain that runs to the mighty Tennessee river and see what happens. I have dealt with Tenn. before. NO thank you. :shock: 

You are allowed to produce so much waste per year based on your calculations of the amount of product scrap processed. ( The EPA has a formula for this ) If say for instance I don’t use all my required credits ( Lbs per year allowed ) Then i can sell them to another company in industry. Say i have 100 credits left on my Dioxins and furans scale, but yet I have used up my credits for waste water discharge . I can swap with another company who may produce more dioxins and less waste discharge. Canceling out both our possible fines for over polluting. I swear, It’s true.

http://www.ejnet.org/dioxin/

Ever wonder how them companies just keep running ? 

But the process for minor source is stream lined and only requires minimal reporting ( self policing ) and a few pages of paper work. It’s not really as intimidating as it seems. 5 sheets of paper and a check in the mail and the little guy should be ready to go. You can even start without the permit in hand. You just need a copy of the filed paperwork. ( minor source only )


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## hyderconsulting (Aug 10, 2007)

Thanks for the info, Ralph. I'm taking notes on all of this.

Ian, it sounds like to me the time will come when this guy will have to do something about his accumulation. He is a classical case of "I want to dispose of the scrap computers the proper way but I don't have time to figure it out so I'll just stockpile the stuff." Bad mistake!!!!!! Stay in touch and watch his dumpster. He will have to do something eventually if not sooner. Regards, Chris.


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 10, 2007)

Surprising who you find on here. Ralph,s way up there, when you catch him on his best nights.


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## pzadude (Oct 29, 2007)

Hey all-

New to the forum and enjoying my surfing through all the informative posts. I wanted to add a point of clarification on the whole EPA certification for recyclers issue. There is no such animal. The EPA issues permits for hazardous waste haulers/processors but not recylers. I'm attaching some clarifying info from an EPA site. This stuff is all near and dear to me as my approach to accumulating scrap is to provide an e-waste recycling service for my rural area.

Thanks for the amazing depth of information you have provided!
Excerpted info follows:

"Can I get a list of EPA certified electronics recyclers?"

EPA does not certify electronics equipment recyclers. Some recyclers may, however, advertise as themselves as being "EPA Approved" or "EPA Certified" in regard to their recycling activities. These claims are not accurate. 

Recyclers may have permits for managing certain types of wastes from EPA or state governments. These permits are not EPA certifications. Having a permit does not reflect how the company recycles electronic equipment, but instead indicates that they have identified their facility as subject to regulatory requirements that require a permit (e.g., air emissions or water discharges). A permit does not guarantee the quality of their recycling methods. Depending on what processes the recycler uses and where their operations are located, many recyclers will not conduct activities that require them to have a permit. 

An EPA ID number is also not a certification. The Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA) requires any person who generates, transports, or recycles regulated wastes or who owns or operates a facility for the treatment, storage, or disposal of regulated wastes (i.e., hazardous waste) to notify EPA of their activities, including the location and general description of the activities and the regulated wastes handled. EPA assigns EPA Identification Number to these companies. EPA uses the number to track the handling of the waste from the generator to treatment or disposal facilities. The Identification Number also allows EPA to track its permit and compliance status. Due to the diverse processes and the type of equipment, not all electronic recyclers are required to have an EPA ID number.

Top of Page


An electronics recycler gave me a number that they said was their 'EPA number.' What does this number mean? 

As stated above, EPA assigns an EPA Waste Generator Identification Number to companies that handle hazardous waste. This number is used to track wastes from one generator to another, and is not a permit, certification, or any kind of EPA approval of their activities. It is instead a way to track waste as it moves from one entity to another. For more information on Waste Generator Identification Numbers, visit the EPA Waste ID Number page.


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## dixie (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm not suguesting this. I have a friend who has sorage units that he rents. A couple of months ago when the tenet failed to pay the rent he unpadlocked them only to find them full of old tires.

Now he gets ID when he rents his buldings.


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