# Here is... My firt BUTTON with Electolisys!



## ALPHABiT (Apr 13, 2008)

14.2 grams of pure.
My first button obtained with electolisys+membrane dissolve system.

Pitty for the little air boubble formed in the center during cooling...
But for me looks great as well.
After photo i cleaned up it of flux remained and took weight.


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## Anonymous (Apr 13, 2008)

CONGRATS ALPHA 8) 
That is gorgeous!! Do you have any idea why it cracked like that?Ive just never seen that before.You said that you had to do a flux clean up...is that because it still contained impurities?Well I dont care,its beautiful.
Johnny


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## Froggy (Apr 13, 2008)

MM, melts in the mouth not in the hand..


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## Platdigger (Apr 13, 2008)

ALPHABiT, this may seem like a strange question, but, what is the aprox diameter of your button? Like .75 inches?
Thanks, I am trying to compre it with an alloy button I have.
Randy


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## ALPHABiT (Apr 14, 2008)

> but, what is the aprox diameter of your button? Like .75 inches?



Diameter is about 1,5cm.
Max High is about 0,35cm.


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## peter i (Apr 14, 2008)

I think that hole is just the nuggets way of saying: "I'm very pure" to you.

Nice!


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## Platdigger (Apr 14, 2008)

Thanks Alpha, BTW, almost forgot, nice Job!
Nice button.
Randy


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## Smitty (Apr 17, 2008)

ALPHABIT,

I just did a nugget .1 oz and it did the same thing as your nugget. During cooling it created a really deep cavern in the center of the nugget also. If you want to straighten out the nugget and get rid of the cavern next time, just let the nugget solidify and then remelt it to liquid consistency, do not let the nugget cool immediately but rather keep the flame on the nugget and move it further away from the nugget slowly letting it cool under the not so extreme heat. Remember to remove the nugget once it starts to harden because it may stick to the melting dish, happened to me once already. Very nice nugget you got there. This is how I've been joining my smaller nuggets into one glob.


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## SilverNitrate (Apr 17, 2008)

Gold & most metals shrinks as it cools. The gold atoms arrange into a crystal structure and loses some volume as it becomes solid. Thats why casted bars get a dip in the middle, if greatly impure it'll dip less.


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## Smitty (Apr 18, 2008)

Does anyoone know how credit suisse and others like them make their ingots without pitting defects like our nuggets. My guess is they are stamping it like how coins are made. But how about the large federal reserve type bars, do they have the same type indents we get when pure gold cools?


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## Harold_V (Apr 18, 2008)

Smitty said:


> Does anyoone know how credit suisse and others like them make their ingots without pitting defects like our nuggets. My guess is they are stamping it like how coins are made. But how about the large federal reserve type bars, do they have the same type indents we get when pure gold cools?


The small ingots are nothing more than rectangular objects that are die struck (like coins). They will be as perfect as the die, with no irregularities. The material from which they're struck is generally rolled and punched to size prior to die striking the medallion/ingot/coin, so they usually have a very nice surface. 

You can control the common defects by controlling the rate of solidification. If you can get an ingot to cool from the bottom to the top, not from the sides in, it will be flat and uniform within reason. Keeping a reducing flame on top of an ingot while it cools helps, but it's hard to get them perfectly flat. That may well be beyond the ability of the home refiner. I know I never mastered it, and I poured ingots for more than 20 years. 

Harold


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## SilverNitrate (Apr 19, 2008)

The key is not to allow the atoms to arrange them self into a lattice (crystal). Since I haven't melted many bars myself, One technique is not to cast a thick bar, flat and wide will dip less. Also cast the bar with excessive amount of flux. It'll help if the bar cools evenly. The worst looking bars are those poured from the crucible into a room-temp steel ingot mold.


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## Harold_V (Apr 19, 2008)

SilverNitrate said:


> One technique is not to cast a thick bar, flat and wide will dip less.


That must be a relative term. Gold will not cast thin-----it simply won't fill the mold properly when the attempt is made. For example, a mold that will cast an ounce ingot will not cast a half ounce ingot that is fully formed. The gold balls up to a given thickness, and refuses to spread. It is for that reason that I made a multitude of mold sizes. 



> Also cast the bar with excessive amount of flux. It'll help if the bar cools evenly. The worst looking bars are those poured from the crucible into a room-temp steel ingot mold.


Heh! 

Here's where you and I will have very different opinions. NO flux should be used when casting ingots. It's fine for doré bars, but not appropriate for finished ingots. One of the many problems can be gold fusing to the mold, although with a properly prepared mold, that may not be the case. It also disfigures the surface finish of the ingot, making it less attractive. Been there, done that. 

Anyone that needs flux to cast an ingot needs to spend more time learning how to refine properly. Flux is commonly used to disguise impure gold, removing signs of oxides, but not necessarily the impurities themselves. 

Harold


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## Lou (Apr 19, 2008)

What Harold said ^^. Any gold I've ever melted (at least refined stuff) comes out shiny and is extremely fluid when molten. You should see your smiling reflection in the pool. 


As for large bars that are too big to be stamped, the key is controlling the rate of solidification and how the crystals are formed. 


Louis


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## ALPHABiT (Apr 19, 2008)

> ALPHABIT,
> 
> I just did a nugget .1 oz and it did the same thing as your nugget. During cooling it created a really deep cavern in the center of the nugget also. If you want to straighten out the nugget and get rid of the cavern next time, just let the nugget solidify and then remelt it to liquid consistency, do not let the nugget cool immediately but rather keep the flame on the nugget and move it further away from the nugget slowly letting it cool under the not so extreme heat. Remember to remove the nugget once it starts to harden because it may stick to the melting dish, happened to me once already. Very nice nugget you got there. This is how I've been joining my smaller nuggets into one glob.



Ty Smitty!
I think i'll add this button to the rest i have to do, starting to make 1 ounce ingots in graphite molds i ordered in USA.
I'm just curiouse to see how i can cast from dish to mold, or if i have to use directly my furnace crucible.
And wanna see if liquid gold will fill all mold parts.
I will preheat graphite mold before casting, and will take care of this cooling suggest.
Tomorrow or the day after i'll show you my new button(s) i'm going to make tomorrow.


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## ALPHABiT (Apr 21, 2008)

Here is my 2nd button...
Nice top obtained warming during cooling, but this time it cracked on bottom! (LOL!)
This is not pure like 1st i think, cose filtered solution got a very few of grey granular suspended in it. I think it was just a bit of silver chloride that filter didnt stop.
In fact his color is a very very little lighter than first.


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## Palladium (Apr 21, 2008)

Very nice. :wink: 
Give us some shots of the powder before you melt it. 8)


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## ALPHABiT (Apr 22, 2008)

> Give us some shots of the powder before you melt it.



Sorry Palladium, this time i didnt catch it.


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