# BGA RAM chips, metal concentrates refining.



## DJPGold (Aug 27, 2022)

I have seperated the metal contents from a few Kg of BGA RAM chips and now this is what I’m left with. It appears to be mostly solder balls, gold powder, probably lead and silver as well as a little bit of iron. 
The chips were not incinerated at any step during the process
I’m primarily after the gold and would like to recover the silver later from my stock pot/filters.
I’ve never processed these concentrates before but from what I’ve read I assume the best way would be Hcl warm washes, followed by a nitric wash.
I cannot get nitric acid so I was hoping someone could confirm what the best method is for me.
My plan was to start by half covering the contents with Hcl then slowly brining the temperature up to dissolve all the tin, then pour off, repeat, pour off, repeat until I don’t see a reaction with the Hcl and tin.
I would then do a copper 2 chloride leech on the material for a couple days to take out any copper, filter the contents and then add it to a beaker and dissolve the gold with Hcl and bleach. After that I will add a few ml of sulfuric acid to precipitate any lead before filtering and dropping gold with SMB.

As far as I’m aware that will remove majority of the base metals from my gold, will the silver be removed during the filtering of the copper 2 chloride leach?


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 28, 2022)

If you didn't incinerate, how did you get the concentrate?


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## DJPGold (Aug 28, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> If you didn't incinerate, how did you get the concentrate?


Grinding and secret sauce


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 28, 2022)

DJPGold said:


> Grinding and secret sauce


You still need to get rid of the plastics, so it will need incineration somehow.

Unless the secret sauce is Wet ashing with Sulfuric, something that is not recommended.
Most member would not do that even if they were at gunpoint.
Exceedingly dangerous.


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## DJPGold (Aug 28, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> You still need to get rid of the plastics, so it will need incineration somehow.
> 
> Unless the secret sauce is Wet ashing with Sulfuric, something that is not recommended.
> Most member would not do that even if they were at gunpoint.
> Exceedingly dangerous.


No, there is no plastics remaining this is purely metal concentrate containing the metals I stated and possibly some other metals I didn’t mention like silicon etc, you could almost quite clearly tell there’s no plastic from the video. 
I’m trying a new method of my own design so I’m not trying to focus on the previous steps to this point in case I misdirect anyone. 
Just want to confirm that I’m going to proceed with the best method for removing the base metals without using nitric acid and only using a minimal amount of sulfuric acid in order to precipitate lead.


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 28, 2022)

DJPGold said:


> No, there is no plastics remaining this is purely metal concentrate containing the metals I stated and possibly some other metals I didn’t mention like silicon etc, you could almost quite clearly tell there’s no plastic from the video.
> I’m trying a new method of my own design so I’m not trying to focus on the previous steps to this point in case I misdirect anyone.
> Just want to confirm that I’m going to proceed with the best method for removing the base metals without using nitric acid and only using a minimal amount of sulfuric acid in order to precipitate lead.


It is hard to advice correctly when the previous steps are shrouded.
Dilute sulfuric will dissolve Copper and Iron, even Tin if it is hot or concentrated, if I'm not mistaken.
So you could try Hot HCl for the Timn and then warm dilute sulfuric for the rest.
It should be fairly clean after that.
The best is of course gravity separation.
Less waste that way.
There are many thorough and good threads on Chips.
Just search the forum.


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## DJPGold (Aug 28, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> It is hard to advice correctly when the previous steps are shrouded.
> Dilute sulfuric will dissolve Copper and Iron, even Tin if it is hot or concentrated, if I'm not mistaken.
> So you could try Hot HCl for the Timn and then warm dilute sulfuric for the rest.
> It should be fairly clean after that.
> ...


No worries, thank you. Sulfuric acid is quite hard for me to obtain and I don’t like using it. Am I correct that Hcl would remove the iron as well or does it only dissolve rust? 
I would like to do a copper chloride leech on the material if that would remove the copper so I can basically do just a HCl and copper chloride cleaning process. 

I could also just remove the tin with Hcl and then do a dirty refine and drop using the Hcl and bleach correct?


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 28, 2022)

DJPGold said:


> No worries, thank you. Sulfuric acid is quite hard for me to obtain and I don’t like using it. Am I correct that Hcl would remove the iron as well or does it only dissolve rust?
> I would like to do a copper chloride leech on the material if that would remove the copper so I can basically do just a HCl and copper chloride cleaning process.
> 
> I could also just remove the tin with Hcl and then do a dirty refine and drop using the Hcl and bleach correct?


If you go the wet chemistry route, you will create a lot of waste you have to deal with later.
Best would be to do a gravity separation.
Then dissolve and refine.
Read and search the forum, there are plenty information in here.
Sulfuric is usually the easiest to get, just battery acid.


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## DJPGold (Aug 28, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> If you go the wet chemistry route, you will create a lot of waste you have to deal with later.
> Best would be to do a gravity separation.
> Then dissolve and refine.
> Read and search the forum, there are plenty information in here.
> Sulfuric is usually the easiest to get, just battery acid.


I don’t want to gravity seperate these concentrates due to the silver content in the solder balls. Hence me asking about the use of acids entirely. I understand wastes, I know using acid creates waste. 
I thought it was quite clear that all I was trying to do is confirm whether or not the acid processes that I intended to use would give me a desired result or if it would give me a headache


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## DJPGold (Aug 28, 2022)

DJPGold said:


> I don’t want to gravity seperate these concentrates due to the silver content in the solder balls. Hence me asking about the use of acids entirely. I understand wastes, I know using acid creates waste.
> I thought it was quite clear that all I was trying to do is confirm whether or not the acid processes that I intended to use would give me a desired result or if it would give me a headache


I’ve refined countless batches of foils and scrap gold, never have I refined the metallic concentrates from a few kg of BGA ram chips, unknown, uncharted territory for myself and I can’t be assed combing the forums for the one post that doesn’t include refining of this material using nitric acid or large quantities of sulfuric acid


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 29, 2022)

DJPGold said:


> I’ve refined countless batches of foils and scrap gold, never have I refined the metallic concentrates from a few kg of BGA ram chips, unknown, uncharted territory for myself and I can’t be assed combing the forums for the one post that doesn’t include refining of this material using nitric acid or large quantities of sulfuric acid


One last thing from me.
There are no silver in modern solder, at least not enough to warrant reclaiming.
So ends my input here.
I really have no patience to help people who don't want to put in the effort to help themselves.


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## Shark (Aug 29, 2022)

DJPGold said:


> uncharted territory for myself and I can’t be assed combing the forums for the one post that doesn’t include refining of this material using nitric acid or large quantities of sulfuric acid


I can understand not having enough time to do things, but that is a bit far. After I joined the forum, and about the time I started to think I knew a little, my health decided to not play nice. It took almost 3 months for the doctors to give me a number odds on whether I would survive or not. I made light of it, and kept reading. I felt like if I ask questions on the forum I would be wasting the time of everyone who tried to help me since I may not be around to benefit from their advice. That could still be my case. Then I realized that was a bit greedy of me. Over the last 10 years or so we have lost several members with a lot of knowledge already and I still look through the forum for advice from them. When I leave questions I don't ask, or unresolved it's not just me that looses out, but the others who may come along in the future, be it only one or many. Admitted I no longer work at a job like many still do, and this is just fun for me. This entire forum is a giant book. If it's not read and reread and read again there is a huge loss by those who do try to help others. And that would be a very sad loss.


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## DJPGold (Aug 29, 2022)

Shark said:


> I can understand not having enough time to do things, but that is a bit far. After I joined the forum, and about the time I started to think I knew a little, my health decided to not play nice. It took almost 3 months for the doctors to give me a number odds on whether I would survive or not. I made light of it, and kept reading. I felt like if I ask questions on the forum I would be wasting the time of everyone who tried to help me since I may not be around to benefit from their advice. That could still be my case. Then I realized that was a bit greedy of me. Over the last 10 years or so we have lost several members with a lot of knowledge already and I still look through the forum for advice from them. When I leave questions I don't ask, or unresolved it's not just me that looses out, but the others who may come along in the future, be it only one or many. Admitted I no longer work at a job like many still do, and this is just fun for me. This entire forum is a giant book. If it's not read and reread and read again there is a huge loss by those who do try to help others. And that would be a very sad loss.


i read the forums quite a lot, and make posts myself. I made this post because I assumed someone would understand what I was asking and be able to give a pretty damn simple “yeah mate that process will work” or “you need to change this step first” and then bam, another helpful post added to the forum explaining a good way to process the metals from BGA ram chips. Instead I got dragged along an unrelated tangent (gravity separation isn’t a rare magic that only the experienced have mastered, anyone who’s watched a video about gold knows it’s heavier than most crud it comes with) that didn’t help my original question at all. Perhaps gravity separation was already performed and these are the results from that and I’d now like to proceed with acid but I’ve had no confirmation. Maybe I’ll just throw a bunch of acids in and see what comes out


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## Shark (Aug 29, 2022)

DJPGold said:


> DJPGold said:
> 
> 
> > i read the forums quite a lot, and make posts myself. I made this post because I assumed someone would understand what I was asking and be able to give a pretty damn simple “yeah mate that process will work” or “you need to change this step first” and then bam,
> ...


Ok. That might work but then it might not.


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## Shark (Aug 29, 2022)

Why Can't I Ask a Simple Question and get a Simple Answer?


Many new members are frustrated when they first join this forum. They may have experience on other internet forums where it is common for members to ask simple questions and get quick answers. They join this forum in hopes of getting similar responses to their questions about refining. These...




goldrefiningforum.com





If you want us to critique your methods or processes, we need to know what they are.


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## DJPGold (Aug 29, 2022)

Shark said:


> Why Can't I Ask a Simple Question and get a Simple Answer?
> 
> 
> Many new members are frustrated when they first join this forum. They may have experience on other internet forums where it is common for members to ask simple questions and get quick answers. They join this forum in hopes of getting similar responses to their questions about refining. These...
> ...


No, actually, that’s not what I’m after. 
The whole intention of the initial post that I made was to get confirmation on whether or not this series of steps
“_My plan was to start by half covering the contents with Hcl then slowly brining the temperature up to dissolve all the tin, then pour off, repeat, pour off, repeat until I don’t see a reaction with the Hcl and tin.
I would then do a copper 2 chloride leech on the material for a couple days to take out any copper, filter the contents and then add it to a beaker and dissolve the gold with Hcl and bleach. After that I will add a few ml of sulfuric acid to precipitate any lead before filtering and dropping gold with SMB.”_
Would remove all the common base metals in IC chips.
That is to say, in the simplest possible way I can think of “I had IC chips, I did not burn them, I have not used acids on them, I no longer have IC chips, now I have a jar of metals. These metals are made up of tin, lead, gold, maybe copper, maybe silver, maybe silicon, maybe other metals I am forgetting. 
Without the use of nitric acid, and without using sulfuric acid for anything other than precipitation of lead when I’ve got gold in solution, can I remove all the base metals using Hcl and then copper 2 chloride. 

Should be a simple yeah mate that’ll work or no change the order of steps, change steps, or it won’t work entirely.

I do appreciate the mention of gravity separation however seeing as my question wasn’t answered directly it still remains. Will these acid steps give me the desired result or not. Surely that is clear enough to give me an answer?


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## Shark (Aug 29, 2022)

DJPGold said:


> Without the use of nitric acid, and without using sulfuric acid for anything other than precipitation of lead when I’ve got gold in solution, can I remove all the base metals using Hcl and then copper 2 chloride.


No.


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## DJPGold (Aug 29, 2022)

Shark said:


> No.


Thank you good sir. Could you please advise me what metals would likely be remaining? I know HCl will dissolve the tin, leaving me with gold, lead, possibly some silver remaining.
At this stage can’t I just dissolve the gold with HCL and bleach, add a sprits of sulfuric acid to precipitate the lead and then capture the lead, traces of silver and other metals in the filter? 
I’m not sure whether or not chlorine from the bleach will oxidise copper and allow the HCL to dissolve it but that would only leave a small amount of copper in my solution/dropped gold.


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## Shark (Aug 29, 2022)

Just so I am clear, you did not incinerate and your only working with the metals left in your sifter not the bonding wire material?


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## DJPGold (Aug 29, 2022)

Shark said:


> Just so I am clear, you did not incinerate and your only working with the metals left in your sifter not the bonding wire material?


Did not incinerate. The bonding wire (gold wires I assume you mean) will be in this mix of metals. All the metals, both precious and base metals, will be contained within that jar. All the plastic and crud is removed


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## Shark (Aug 30, 2022)

I don’t like using bleach on anything. Especially anything thicker than finger foils. The situation here is one of the reasons why. 

I would go with hot hydrochloric since you don’t want to use nitric or sulfuric. Do not boil in a plain jar. Lab beaker, boiling flask or, at a minimum a glass coffee pot with a Corningware pan as a catch pan. Put your material in your beaker, cover with twice the volume of HCl and bring to a low boil. Hold it there until it changes color. Once it stops reacting change the HCl and heat it up again until it stops reacting. Repeat until very little to no color change. Decant the remaining liquid leaving the left over solids in the beaker. This you will use AR on. Or HCl/Cl only if you can not access a nitrate. Here is why bleach is less useful, it takes a LOT of it to dissolve base metals. Bleach also neutralizes HCl. Two strike rule for me. Now if you need extra bleach you most likely will also need extra HCl as well. Make additions with this in mind. Finish off as usual, denox, drop lead, filter until clear (sediment clear) and drop. 

When you work out side well known methods things become more complicated. So, if it doesn’t seem to work right…. It can be a shot in the dark as what to try next. For example, any residues from the IC bodies can have the ability to absorb some of your gold. Properly incinerated removes that ability. At times some remaining base metals have the ability to kick start a nitric reaction, even after being neutralized with sulfamic.


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## DJPGold (Aug 31, 2022)

Shark said:


> I don’t like using bleach on anything. Especially anything thicker than finger foils. The situation here is one of the reasons why.
> 
> I would go with hot hydrochloric since you don’t want to use nitric or sulfuric. Do not boil in a plain jar. Lab beaker, boiling flask or, at a minimum a glass coffee pot with a Corningware pan as a catch pan. Put your material in your beaker, cover with twice the volume of HCl and bring to a low boil. Hold it there until it changes color. Once it stops reacting change the HCl and heat it up again until it stops reacting. Repeat until very little to no color change. Decant the remaining liquid leaving the left over solids in the beaker. This you will use AR on. Or HCl/Cl only if you can not access a nitrate. Here is why bleach is less useful, it takes a LOT of it to dissolve base metals. Bleach also neutralizes HCl. Two strike rule for me. Now if you need extra bleach you most likely will also need extra HCl as well. Make additions with this in mind. Finish off as usual, denox, drop lead, filter until clear (sediment clear) and drop.
> 
> When you work out side well known methods things become more complicated. So, if it doesn’t seem to work right…. It can be a shot in the dark as what to try next. For example, any residues from the IC bodies can have the ability to absorb some of your gold. Properly incinerated removes that ability. At times some remaining base metals have the ability to kick start a nitric reaction, even after being neutralized with sulfamic.


Thanks heaps mate. Struggling to find a hot plate safe dish locally so might grab a corningware dish off eBay. 
In regards to the bleach taking a long time to dissolve base metals, wouldn’t the base metals be gone after the HCl or are you talking about other base metals that will still be around after HCl washing, that will also go into solution with the gold?
Is it the carbon the supposedly absorbs the gold? That sounds familiar.
I feel at this point I should mention I have some memory issues and have to re-read information multiple times, over weeks in order to actually remember it and then because of the issues I always doubt that what I’ve remembered is correct. I’ll be writing these steps down as a method sheet for processing these BGAs so just wanna get accurate notes etc


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