# I miss the days of Harold



## silversaddle1 (Jan 7, 2018)

When a rude or belligerent forum member would not be tolerated. 

I don't like people who strike out and resort to insults and name calling when a discussion. It's childish and non-productive. I got my butt in a sling with Harold on a few post and I now know how to act and treat other members.

Harold, where are you?


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## Lou (Jan 8, 2018)

Please let moderation know by reporting such offending posts.


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## jimdoc (Jan 8, 2018)

If that worked there wouldn't be a problem.


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## jason_recliner (Jan 8, 2018)

SS, me too. But more for his straight down the line personality than his hammer.
I hope Harold is doing well and now happily sculpting timber furniture or something similar in his retirement. if anyone is in personal contact, please pass on my regards.


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## niks neims (Jan 8, 2018)

I think that most of the older users miss Harold very much. Regardless of his modding work, the atmosphere alone that he provided... I mean you can really feel it when reading older posts in forum, dude was RESPECTED!

I do agree, that for new users to come in and hang around, there must be encouraging environment, and toxic attitude towards newbies can kill community very fast, so probably tone shift was needed, but still, from perspective of regular, senior users those new upstart a-holes must be very annoying to deal with. That was probably Harold`s greatest quality - he never shied away from a fight, he was relentless, principal, pragmatic, full of energy to take anyone on and make them heel, armed with irrefutable logic, impressive vocabulary, sense of righteousness and will to mercilessly use it all when push came to shove...well come to think of it - it does sound like an a-hole a bit...But if it is used in the line of duty, one can only respect that and you sometimes need to fight evil with evil... It is truly my belief that most of the large scale grief in the world is not because of the religion, nationality, politics, jews, muslims, liberals or whatever (I can feel the ban hammer rising ) but just people in general being a-holes, plain and simple - selfish, unrepentant, disrespectful, egoistical, narcistic, unapologetic, arrogant, ignorant a-holes... But GRF is not our complicated world, this is fairly straightforward community with clear purpose, with little room for interpretation what should or should not be allowed here...so if someone would want to weed out said a-holes from his domain? If you have an authoritarian regime, the best way is just to confront them... well Harold did it beautifully... He embodied the rules and the respect for the board in such an impressive way that I have not seen on any other board I have been part of...

Then, on the other hand, he would have probably already banned me a few times... So maybe reverence for the memory of Harold is better than the real thing 

I am sorry, though, for using shortened term "a-holes", both here and in the other thread, I am not being disrespectful or trying to break forum rules, It is just that with English not being my first language I can`t think of a better term to express what I mean, too many movies I guess....


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 9, 2018)

If you don't like someone's post, click on the exclamation point in the upper right corner of the post that offends you. Then, give an explanation why this post upsets you. Doing this, instead of firing back at the person, will help keep you out of trouble. If nothing is done about this complaint, it is because none of the mods think it warrants any further action. 

Except for spam, I am very much against zero-tolerance or chicken s*** rules. Every offense is unique and deserves a hearing. In the past, some very knowledgeable people were banned for trite reasons and some of these who were disliked by a mod were goaded into making comments that eventually got them banned. I think that is a thing of the past.


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## jimdoc (Jan 9, 2018)

This place hasn't been the same since "Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:54 am"

This is my last post here, enjoy your safe space. Just realize that many good people are disgusted and driven away by safe spaces as for your reasons for them.

Jim


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## Lou (Jan 9, 2018)

Jim I want you to know that I think it is a real pity that you’d up and leave after over ten years of service and membership.


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## UncleBenBen (Jan 9, 2018)

Lou said:


> Jim I want you to know that I think it is a real pity that you’d up and leave after over ten years of service and membership.



I'll second that. This big old house will get awfully drafty with you here Jim. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I dig your style, Jimdoc! I do hope you will reconsider.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jan 9, 2018)

An egress will not change it, but yet make it worse.

I will second the seconded motion and say, please do not leave us Jim. You will be greatly missed.

I do hope that you see these replies


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 10, 2018)

I third that, Jim. You're a mainstay here and your posts are always meaningful and full of wisdom. If you leave, the forum will suffer great loss.


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## Lou (Jan 10, 2018)

If he read half the library he sold me, the man knows some stuff!! Big time!


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jan 10, 2018)

Lou said:


> If he read half the library he sold me, the man knows some stuff!! Big time!



I know!
I wanted that library!


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## snoman701 (Jan 10, 2018)

Lou said:


> If he read half the library he sold me, the man knows some stuff!! Big time!



You issue library cards?

I don't care to see anyone leave. This is an awesome place to hang out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## anachronism (Jan 10, 2018)

Jim already knows where I stand on this one 8)


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## Long Shot (Jan 10, 2018)

I don't post much anymore, just read and follow most of the time. I am not a long timer but have been around long enough to know and experience the realm of Harold. I had a brush with his firm but fair outlook and he reminds me of my best friends father who I worked for on several contract jobs. Earl (like Harold) called a spade a spade, had little tolerance for BS, worked harder than any man I've ever known, knew what he was talking about / doing and appreciated people who fell in line with his ethics. Once you understood Earl you were good with him, same as Harold, old school guys that are going extinct and will be missed for what they are / were. I can only hope that I have instilled some of these qualities in my daughter which I think I have.

There seems to be some commonality between this thread and another one that turned a bit nasty. All I would like to say is that the Mods have a tough (with no compensation that I am aware of) job and in my experience, with a slight exception, are very fair, level headed, helpful and decent people that have obviously been selected for this role based on that. If the new model is to exhibit some tolerance of flared tempers then so be it. I must say that I don't agree with a "Care Bear" mentality in dealing with people that clearly can't control their emotions and / or words when called out but it is 2018 and it is the way the world has been heading. Although I respected Harold (and still do) I thought Thor's Hammer came down pretty quickly. It was his way or the highway based on forum rules and so be that, if you didn't get the picture, you didn't have the chance to have a fit. He has guts, wisdom and high intelligence as has been mentioned. 

I really hope that long standing members don't start bailing out of here like fleas off a dead rabbit as appears that JimDoc has done. Hopefully he cools off and / or a Mod talks to him about his decision. The GRF is one of a kind with the best people in the game associated. Let us all think about that and be thankful that we have this place (thanks to Noxx, my Valleyfield neighbor) to share our world whether we agree or disagree. Sometimes it is better to just log off and chill.


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## niks neims (Jan 10, 2018)

jimdoc said:


> This place hasn't been the same since "Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:54 am"
> 
> This is my last post here, enjoy your safe space. Just realize that many good people are disgusted and driven away by safe spaces as for your reasons for them.
> 
> Jim



Dude, don`t do that, you have made almost 4.5k posts, don`t throw it away for someone like scrapparts or me (I kind of didn`t understand what exactly are you mad about ), regardless you must have contributed to this place as most as the best of them and you seem to be universally recognized as one of the elite guys...



Long Shot said:


> All I would like to say is that the Mods have a tough (with no compensation that I am aware of) job and in my experience, with a slight exception, are very fair, level headed, helpful and decent people that have obviously been selected for this role based on that



Dammnit, it just hit me - that all this remeniscing about Harold - it must feel like a slap in the face of the current moderators, that are doing hard, thankless job, and, I am not afraid to say it, in my opinion they are doing a wonderful job at that. 

Thank you guys, all of you, be it carrot, stick, banning or safe spaceing, I know it, and all of the other members know it, we are in your debt for the contribution you make, daily...

And, jimdoc, on the off-chance that it is some confrontation you crave: 
Don`t you dare make these good people (moderators) feel guilty for your choice to leave the forum, they are doing the best they can, they have to answer to their boss, adhere to the forum policy set before them, AND they try to make best decisions possible in their position, you think it is easy? 

If confrontation wasn`t the thing you were fishing for, disregard my last paragraph 

-Artūrs


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## Platdigger (Jan 10, 2018)

Oh Harold, Oh Harold, werefore art thou Harold??






no really, the rest of the mods are doing just fine seems to me.
Thanks Guys!


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jan 11, 2018)

niks neims said:


> .. a slap in the face of the current moderators, that are doing hard, thankless job, and, I am not afraid to say it, in my opinion they are doing a wonderful job at that.



Yeah, it seems to me, being a moderator is akin to being a parent.
You have to put up with fits, new "friends" who are fools, wipe butts, clean up vomit. ground your children for misbehavior, ..and all for what? ..Having your kids tell you "I want a new mommy and daddy" or, "I wish little Johnny Jerkwad's daddy was my daddy, he doesn't get time outs, AND gets to eat cake for breakfast"

I understand Jim's side though, and I understand the Mods.
If only there could be a happy medium.


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## jason_recliner (Jan 11, 2018)

jimdoc said:


> This place hasn't been the same since "Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:54 am"


You are right, it hasn't. (Of course it was actually 3:54pm in the _real_ world.)
But I for one would miss your comments. In particular, your no-nonsense, "don't let the door hit you in the R's" attitude to both stupidity and disrespectful behaviour.

If you see this post, I implore you to reconsider staying.


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## g_axelsson (Jan 11, 2018)

I can only agree, I miss Harold too. And no, I don't take that as criticism of how I am as a moderator.

I can only talk for myself, but being a moderator was a lot easier before I became one. :wink: 

It is a hard path to walk to keep a forum together without killing the discussion. Either you go down hard on any violations and you scare away new members and the forum turns into a club of old members that soon run out of discussion points. Or you let anything slip and the forum goes up in flames from constant wars. To keep the forum in the middle where new members feel they can ask a stupid question without being scolded as well as stopping bad behavior before it gets out of hand isn't always easy.

Some cases are easy to handle, as nike spammers or Africans selling 100 kg gold per month. But then there are those marginal cases that takes a lot more work.
Often you get an impression of a member and it will stick, even after quite some time have passed. Just as we ask for some cool and levelheaded responses from other members when we debate refining and other issues, I feel that is something a moderator should also use when moderating. To take a decision while you still are angry from reading a post is not a good way to do it.
So before taking a vote on banning a member or not I usually go back and look over the posts the member have made the last year or more. Maybe the thread just hit a nerve or maybe it is a more persistent behavior. This takes some time and no one sees the work done by all moderators when we discuss issues.
And it seems like the situations occur whenever I have least spare time. This week I have had two 16 hour days and barely any sleep. A lot of work hours are good for my economy though. :mrgreen: 

There are some perks of being a moderator. We have large message boxes, basically gold member status for free. Then the glory of it... well, that's about all.

In the end, moderating a forum is steering somewhere in the middle, so when half of the people is mad at you for being too lax, while the other half is thinking you should allow more leeway in the discussions, that's when we are on the right path.

I hope that Jim would reconsider his decision to leave. I would hate to have him leave. We are trying to keep the forum together, not driving people away.  
And Jim, you are always welcome back whenever you feel for it.

Göran


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## anachronism (Jan 11, 2018)

Jim don't leave.

Guys please don't get me involved in a discussion about Harold. You moderators all know he crossed the line from objective to subjective with a number of people and went completely OTT in private mails and attempts to hound people off the forum who he didn't like. Chris has alluded to this already.

I liked his blunt approach when he was being objective but don't deify someone who was corrupted by the "power" he had. If I could front him up in public for what he did to me over 4 years I would bury him stone cold for what he did to me and many other people. The myth of the "good old boy" would be well and truly shattered.

He's best gone and the mods made sure of that. Enough said.


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## g_axelsson (Jan 11, 2018)

... actually, Harold left on his own will, Jon. We just told him that he had broken the rules we just had agreed on as moderators, as well as disrupted a lot of the inner workings of the forum by deleting your old user. (unable to search your posts, PM disappearing...)

Harold is still a member and has not been banned, though he is back at a moderator level and not administrator.

Any decision about demoting a moderator or so is up to Noxx.

Göran


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## anachronism (Jan 11, 2018)

Thanks Goran 

I appreciate the clarity, AND you saying this publicly.

Jon


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## silversaddle1 (Jan 11, 2018)

Yeah, I remember that deal you guy had out. I was just meaning how he kept the petty crap off the forum.


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## jimdoc (Jan 12, 2018)

OK, With further information I have decided to stay.

I apologize to the forum and the moderators for the disruption.
I do understand what the moderators have to deal with, and they do a good job. 

I still stand by my opinion on the other guy in my last confrontation.

I have some ideas that may help with avoiding confrontations that I will post in the "Forum Improvements / Ideas" section later.

Jim


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## UncleBenBen (Jan 12, 2018)

Best news I've heard so far today.
Good to see you back! 8)


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## Palladium (Jan 12, 2018)

And people wonder why i have so many pseudonyms on the forum! :mrgreen:


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jan 12, 2018)

Excellent!


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## Platdigger (Jan 12, 2018)

Good deal Jim!


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