# LazerSteve Another Rockwell Chip for your list



## nicknitro (Apr 25, 2009)

Hi all,

I was going over a few old Flatpacks the other day, and came upon this Chip. Steve has mentioned other Rockwell chips with "Hybrid" internals.

Hope this helps someone with a box-full of them. LOL

Thanks
Nick


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## Sodbuster (Apr 26, 2009)

Nick: 
Nice photo, detail, heck I can see your thumb print. 
Every time I see the term "Hybrid" I have to scratch one of my brain cells. I know it's a silly question but just what exactley makes it a hybrid chip, or hybrid internals? 
anyone? Thanks 
Ray


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## nicknitro (Apr 26, 2009)

SodBuster,

Great question. Wish I had an answer. LOL 

As I Say, LazerSteve used this term for some of the Flatpacks from early 14K and 28K modems. Considering he has probably handled literally tons of these things, I would imagine he just meant it was a rarity for it's time.

I believe he also speculated on the function of the added gold for these chips and on other say video boards, was for "Shielding".

Oh no now I'm speculateing, it's usually better to fing the article and post the link,so I think I will. LOL

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4357&highlight=

Good Luck,and enjoy this weather,
Nick


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## qst42know (Apr 26, 2009)

You can see from your photo the insides are more than just a package holding a single silicon wafer there is a circuit board of many different components inside. 

The wiki explains it better

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_circuit


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 26, 2009)

Hybrid circuits are simply circuits that are made up of components using a variety of technologies. The term is fairly generic and is used for many different things. They can be such things as small circuit boards containing both analog and digital devices. 

The hybrid circuits I have mainly worked with are white alumina substrates with thin or thick film circuitry. They generally have components such as chip capacitors or IC chips. They are usually mounted in a hybrid package as in these links.
http://www.technographmicro.com/thick_film_hybrids.php
http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia_term/0,2542,t=hybrid+microcircuit&i=44544,00.asp

The one in the Wiki link above, given by qst42know, is encapsulated.

Thick film circuits are made by silk screening metallic pastes on the alumina substrate and then firing them. Both the substrate and the pastes contain about 4-5% glass frit which melts when fired and holds everything together. The more valuable ones utilize Pt (matte gray colored) or Au (matte yellow) conductor traces.
http://www.emtronhybrids.com/conductors.htm 

Often, you will see black thick film Ruthenium oxide resistors (usually square or rectangular) screened over the conductor traces. If you look at these with a loupe, you will usually see a fine line cut into them with a miniature sand blaster or laser. This is used to adjust (trim) the resistance.

We once had 2 drums (very heavy) of reject alumina PGM and Au thick film circuits, not mounted in packages - circuits only, that refined out at $120,000.

Thin film circuits are similar, except the traces are sputtered or evaporated on. The thin film traces are bright and shiny. As a refining item, thin film circuits are far less valuable than thick film circuits.


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## Sodbuster (Apr 27, 2009)

So it looks to me like just about all IC's and Flatpacks are hybrids. I guess I was stuck on the photo above trying to understand what made it a hybrid. 
Thanks guys (as I further my education) for the links, big help.
Ray


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## nicknitro (Apr 27, 2009)

Greatly appreciate the help on the subject Chris, Qst42know.

Great info for the chip buffs.

Nick


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## lazersteve (Apr 27, 2009)

Typically hybrids contain some type of circuit board with discrete components (capacitors, resistors, inductors) inside the package, whereas regular flat packs do not have a circuit board. The legs in a 'regular' flat pack go straight to the silicon die via bonding wires.

Steve


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## nicknitro (Apr 29, 2009)

Steve,

Do you feel this particular chip is similar to your "hybrids" ? I see no obvious capacitors and such, however I speculate if I could see one if there was anyway, "Probably so small on a flatpack." . On this particular chip I just see a green board,on a backing of copper, with some golden plating. I also have not broken it up all the way, so I couldn't say what is more towards the center.


Cheers,
Nick


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## qst42know (May 25, 2009)

goldsilverpro said:


> Hybrid circuits are simply circuits that are made up of components using a variety of technologies. The term is fairly generic and is used for many different things. They can be such things as small circuit boards containing both analog and digital devices.
> 
> The hybrid circuits I have mainly worked with are white alumina substrates with thin or thick film circuitry. They generally have components such as chip capacitors or IC chips. They are usually mounted in a hybrid package as in these links.
> http://www.technographmicro.com/thick_film_hybrids.php
> ...



GSP

I have a few of these hybrid chips, so few that it is likely not worth the effort of processing for ruthenium (not that I know how to recover ruthenium). 

Can the gold be recovered without the risk of being contaminated with ruthenium?

By which process can I recover the gold and exclude ruthenium?

These chips will need incinerated to remove the silicone rubber jelly the gold wires are encapsulated in.


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