# Rusty - STAY AWAY - Bad toll refining experience



## alexxx (Nov 18, 2013)

I don't usually like the idea of crying on a forum when you have a bad experience with another member.
This post is made to prevent any other member to get screwed by forum member Rusty and think twice before sending any material to anybody for toll refining.

6 months ago I sent to Rusty a few hundred pounds of plastic eproms, ceramic eproms, lsi cpus, flat packs...
We are talking here about a few thousand dollars worth of material.
We agreed on % for the refining work and a time line to process the material.

I received regular updates from Rusty during the first days / weeks via email & over the phone.
After that the nightmare began, not replying to emails and calls in a timely manner, asking for a delay to process the material.

Now it's been 2 months that I have no news at all from Rusty, not answering emails, private messages nor phone calls.

Many things might have happened... Maybe Rusty was not able to process the material, screwed up with the chemistry, maybe he spent the money... I don't know...

What I know is that this is my second very bad experience on toll refining on this forum, with 2 super reputable forum members. My losses are more than 10k with these 2 terrible experiences

To all other members, I would say, NEVER go for toll refining here, sell your material instead... OR be VERY careful where you send your material, make sure that your refiner can provide an average yield prior to refining for a said type of material. Ask for an advance, make sure to establish a specific time line for the processing. 

and Rusty -> PAY ME !!!!!


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## moose7802 (Nov 18, 2013)

I'm pretty sure there's 2 people on this forum who go by Rusty. You might want to clarify which one it is you are referring to as to not damage the other's name. Just my opinion and we all know what opinions are like.

Tyler


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## alexxx (Nov 18, 2013)

moose7802 said:


> I'm pretty sure there's 2 people on this forum who go by Rusty. You might want to clarify which one it is you are referring to as to not damage the other's name. Just my opinion and we all know what opinions are like.
> 
> Tyler




rusty -> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=14120


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## moose7802 (Nov 18, 2013)

I'm sorry for your loss man. That's a very crappy thing for someone to do!!! I always say people like that will get theirs when the time is right. Or when it's judgement time

Tyler


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## glondor (Nov 18, 2013)

Seems Rusty is now an 83 year old Chinese guy. I have had a poor experience dealing with an old Chinese guy as well.


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## moose7802 (Nov 18, 2013)

I saw that when I looked at the link posted. It's a shame, all I can say as I have never had contact with him but read a lot of good posts by him. 

Tyler


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## cnbarr (Nov 18, 2013)

Hey Mike,

You always have a way of taking the worst situations and putting humor into them! It didn't fully set in till I looked at rusty profile, I guess he is an 83 year old China man!

I wonder if he has one of those long whispy mustaches and long thin goatees, like you see in old Kung Foo movies?


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## rewalston (Nov 18, 2013)

Yeah I'm the other Rusty. I don't toll refine for anyone, still learning for that matter. So I'm glad it wasn't me that was being talked about here. I'm sorry that you were rooked. I hope things get better for you.

Rusty (rewalston)


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## solar_plasma (Nov 18, 2013)

Maybe this is a very german, even prussian point of view, but I think you guys should set up contracts in written form with contractual penalties for the case of delay or non-fullfillment, when trading on those levels.


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## mls26cwru (Nov 19, 2013)

didn't he get banned and go to the other forum?


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## butcher (Nov 19, 2013)

Maybe he will see this and clear things up, his last visit to the forum was today.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=14120


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## Anonymous (Nov 19, 2013)

solar_plasma said:


> Maybe this is a very german, even prussian point of view, but I think you guys should set up contracts in written form with contractual penalties for the case of delay or non-fullfillment, when trading on those levels.



I don't think it's a very Prussion point of view, in fact I completely agree with you mate. 100%!

Some kind of trackable heads of agreement at the very least, so that if it all goes south you have some paperwork to follow things through.

I know it doesn't help the OP and I'm sorry to hear you got skanked Sir.


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## moose7802 (Nov 19, 2013)

Totally agree with having contracts. If someone has a problem with it then it's probably not a good idea to do business with them plain and simple. 

Tyler


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## ericrm (Nov 19, 2013)

hey rusty, if you have money probleme why dont you sell a few of your centrifudge? 500$ a pop i would be interested to play with your machine im not kidding ,just saying that there could be other option than hidding

contact me via pm if you are interested


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## grance (Nov 19, 2013)

His profile says hes 83 maybe if thats true he passed away?


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## Harold_V (Nov 20, 2013)

grance said:


> His profile says hes 83 maybe if thats true he passed away?


It's not true, and that's not doing him any favors. I abhor dishonest people, and misrepresenting one's self on this board makes my dislike all the greater. 
If this accusation is not cleared up, and damned soon, Rusty (who resides in Canada and is about 60 years old) is going to find himself on the outside of the forum. 

Harold


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## Ocean (Nov 20, 2013)

This is off topic but I have no good feelings for Rusty after he called the Homeland Security/FBI on me for a piece of LEGAL spent uranium a few years ago, and disrupted the lives of many.

Ban the fool.


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## butcher (Nov 20, 2013)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=14120

I cannot say Rusty has read the discussion here, but he has been on the forum, this silence from him on this subject is not looking good, or not helping him to clear his name, or helping him to clear up this problem, and to work this problem out honestly.

I agree any member here who will deal dishonestly with others should be banned, they have no business here on our forum. I just hope that is not the case here, he has been a member here for some time, Rusty has a chance to straighten this out with alexxx, and do him right on his deal with him.

I will see if he will answer a PM.


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## jimdoc (Nov 20, 2013)

butcher said:


> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=14120
> 
> I cannot say Rusty has read the discussion here, but he has been on the forum, this silence from him on this subject is not looking good, or not helping him to clear his name, or helping him to clear up this problem, and to work this problem out honestly.
> 
> ...




His profile will only show his last visit to moderators because he is logging in to be hidden.
Regular members see this "Last visited: - "

Jim


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## moose7802 (Nov 20, 2013)

I like it Harold!! I have no use for dishonesty, I was born and raised in a small town in North Central Wisconsin where your word and name still mean something. It's too bad because what I can tell from the posts I have read of his he was definitely an asset to the forum. 

Tyler


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## Harold_V (Nov 21, 2013)

I have made two inquiries of Rusty, in the hopes that he'd address this issue, but thus far they have been ignored. He has been visiting the board, and did so as recently as 11:00 pm Wednesday, so none of this should be unknown to him. I'll give him another day, then if nothing is forthcoming, he's out of here, permanently. 

My sig line says you are what you write. You also are what you do. 

Harold


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## necromancer (Nov 21, 2013)

Harold_V said:


> I have made two inquiries of Rusty, in the hopes that he'd address this issue, but thus far they have been ignored. He has been visiting the board, and did so as recently as 11:00 pm Wednesday, so none of this should be unknown to him. I'll give him another day, then if nothing is forthcoming, he's out of here, permanently.
> 
> My sig line says you are what you write. You also are what you do.
> 
> Harold



does that mean everyone Harold_V ???


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## moose7802 (Nov 21, 2013)

necromancer said:


> does that mean everyone Harold_V ???



What do you mean? 

Tyler


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## Smack (Nov 21, 2013)

Didn't he (Rusty) just recently say when given an ultimatum by Harold, "I choose GRF" ?


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## moose7802 (Nov 22, 2013)

I just found out this guy is the moderator of another forum!! Whoever started the other forum must not know this person well, I would definitely not want to follow or have this man lead me in my refining venture. I have no use for thieves and not the first time i have stated this and if this Rusty stole from me trust me you would be very SORRY! As long as you can live with yourself and this speaks volumes as to your character. 

Tyler


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## Harold_V (Nov 22, 2013)

Gill was not pleased when Poe was banned from this forum. He appeared to be drawn to his double talk--as if he believed that the absurd was true. 
I have tracked this individual long enough to know that he has been paying visits to this board on a daily basis, but has not posted for over three weeks. He is well aware of the issue of being charged with theft, and has refused to return inquiries. As I have little tolerance for such activity, and a reluctance to discuss the issue, he has now been banned from this board. If he returns, he will be banned again, and if he creates issues, complaints will be filed with his IP. 

Harold


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## Harold_V (Nov 22, 2013)

moose7802 said:


> I just found out this guy is the moderator of another forum!! Whoever started the other forum must not know this person well,


He was also appointed moderator of yet another forum, but that was short lived. 
If the board on which he is a moderator is the board on which Poe is to be found, it comes as no surprise that he would end up there. 

Harold


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## moose7802 (Nov 22, 2013)

Good place for him!! Sounds like he won't be back here to steal from anyone else. People like him will get theirs when they face the man up stairs. 

Tyler


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## jeneje (Nov 23, 2013)

As some of you know, Rusty was a member on my forum as well as here. Although, he decided not to answer or defend himself about this matter, he (rusty) requested that I remove him from my forum as well. This has been done. 

He gave no reason and I did not ask, 
Ken


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## Auggie (Nov 23, 2013)

Sounds like he came upon the deep end of something and fell in. I pray for Rusty and hope whatever has happened turns out well in the end.

Rusty was at one time a valued member of this forum and contributed considerably. Let's not forget the good people have done.

I do not condone what has been alleged and I hope and pray for both parties' sake that Rusty can eventually honor his end of the bargain or an equitable solution be found.


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## Anonymous (Nov 23, 2013)

Auggie said:


> Sounds like he came upon the deep end of something and fell in. I pray for Rusty and hope whatever has happened turns out well in the end.



I'm sorry but praying for somebody who has allegedly ripped another member off is a pointless and futile exercise. If somebody did that to me, then I can assure you I would not be the one praying. For all the good it would do....

Regardless of what actually happened, the point here is that he apparently has somebody else's property worth money. Instead of stepping up to the plate and explaining himself he's just disappeared. You don't need to be religious to have morals. Maybe he could have come and explained himself, but he CHOSE not to. That's his choice to make, therefore he has to endure the consequences of his own choice.

Even if I did pray (and that's a separate discussion that needn't be brought up on here) I wouldn't waste the effort.

Edited for explanation.


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## grance (Nov 23, 2013)

Is there any legal action alexx could take against rusty at this point?


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## alexxx (Nov 23, 2013)

grance said:


> Is there any legal action alexx could take against rusty at this point?



Yes I could.
Having is address & full name where I shipped the material and the back & forth emails with our agreement.

But it will end up in me losing more money I believe. Getting something out of a court in law, even if we are both canadians, will take forever, and will cost time & money.
Even if I get a judgment, not even sure he has anything worth of seizing...

10k in the "learning process losses" column...


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## ericrm (Nov 23, 2013)

that is a very high price to pay, i know my question is simple but did you ask him to send what left of the material? as bad as he seemed to be at recovering gold from this material im doubfull that he treated it all...


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## CBentre (Nov 23, 2013)

alexxx said:


> grance said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any legal action alexx could take against rusty at this point?
> ...



If what he has done is true you should explore your options. 10k is not chump change in any part of the world....OK maybe Vegas but still if it were me I would contact the authorities and look into small claims court just to prove a point. I see a trend happening here on the forum and it involves highly respected members stealing from other members. Over the past year the markets have put a strain on a lot of people and businesses and they seem to be acting irrationally to survive. It's unfortunate and I understand your concerns as I've had my own in counters this past year but the money values were not as high as yours. Still at the end of the day it's your money and it could be used for your own means of survival at some point. If you do nothing then he is free to continue doing it, if you try to fight for what is yours it may stop him from doing it to another person and possibly for more then what you have lost.


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## ericrm (Nov 23, 2013)

maybe one thing to take into consideration is the fact the grf is full of wannabe refiner? rusty with ic wasnt a refiner ,he was trying to setup a new way of recovery for those parts, testerman with keyboard mylar also wasnt a refiner he was experimenting with someone else material, as for myself the only toll refine i did, ended up a complete screw up from me to the customer,i didnt knew what i was realy into and i had to send the material to an other forum member to make thing right... i realy think here that the big deal is most of the people here are not real refiner ,they do theyr best as one day refiner but screw thing up ,are heater too disonest or scared or poor to come back with a solution end everything end up badly....


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## Harold_V (Nov 23, 2013)

I agree that it's possible that there could be a case of an individual biting off more than can be chewed, but I'll never understand the mindset of ignoring the party from whom the material was procured. Any decent person would at least try to fix things and not ignore the owner of the material. That isn't acceptable, and it's never going to be acceptable. 

I have more than little contempt for those who do things like that, and would gladly see the bastards imprisoned. 

Some folks simply won't do the right thing. I don't want them on this board, and will stop at nothing to ensure they are not, and that includes filing charges. 

Harold


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## moose7802 (Nov 23, 2013)

That's why those as you say "one day refiners" should only take material they know they can process with confidence. If you can't do it don't act like you can, swallow a little pride and just say no I don't know what I'm doing! 

Tyler


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## Palladium (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm not a real refiner, but i play one on the gold refining forum! :mrgreen:


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## Geo (Nov 24, 2013)

dang it Ralph, beat me to it.


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## Palladium (Nov 24, 2013)

I live vicariously through myself. :lol:


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## butcher (Nov 24, 2013)

An Honest man will own up to his mistakes, and will try to make things right, he will not try to hide them, or hide himself.

He had plenty of chances to make things right but chose to avoid doing so, this does not mean that he could not or will not in the future, but so far he will not respond, or make an effort, that is not being Honest.

Here He could have easily answered an Email, and explained the problem, and worked things out, He chose to Hide, why I do not know, but I do know he was not being Honest in doing so, at least three moderators (that I know of) tried to contact him by PM to give him the opportunity to explain his side, and to try and help him work out the problem to make this right, He remained hidden, even hiding his presence of daily visits to the forum as this discussion was unfolding, this just showed a dishonest character, and so He has been rightfully banned.

It is still my hope He will make this deal right, and square things away with the person he owes money to, by gold, scrap, or anything of equal value.


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## moose7802 (Nov 24, 2013)

I want to be a refiner one day...maybe. :|


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## jeneje (Nov 24, 2013)

Palladium said:


> I live vicariously through myself. :lol:


Palladium, just though I would let you know, when you click on the links in your sig line you get this WARNING, 
*Warning - this URL may be harmful

The TinyURL (nyutnp) you visited was determined to likely be harmful by one of our security partners. It could lead to inappropriate content, code that may harm your computer, spam, or an attempt to get your personal details. TinyURL has a strict no abuse policy and we apologize for the intrusion the use of this TinyURL has caused you. 

If you would still like to proceed at your own risk, this TinyURL went to:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=518


About TinyURL

TinyURL.com is a free URL redirection service that allows you to make a long URL into a more managable shortened URL. To learn more about TinyURL, please visit our homepage: http://tinyurl.com/
*
Ken


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## ericrm (Nov 24, 2013)

Geo said:


> dang it Ralph, beat me to it.





Palladium said:


> I'm not a real refiner, but i play one on the gold refining forum! :mrgreen:


you two... dont take it personnal i would have no fear to send you material... but what would happen if i where to send you 20000$ worth of material and your work shed burn down, be realistic . im sure you would both come out with apology your good person ,but do you have insurance to cover the 20000$ ,and what if someone come in the night and steal the material? i think you can understand what i mean...


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## alexxx (Nov 24, 2013)

ericrm said:


> that is a very high price to pay, i know my question is simple but did you ask him to send what left of the material? as bad as he seemed to be at recovering gold from this material im doubfull that he treated it all...



Yup,

my last 3 or 4 unanswered emails to him I asked to have me concentrates returned.


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## JHS (Nov 24, 2013)

Rusty,
If you are in need of help,
let me know.
john


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## Anonymous (Nov 24, 2013)

JHS said:


> Rusty,
> If you are in need of help,
> let me know.
> john



You meant that post to the OP not Rusty right? I really didn't just read you asking the perpetrator of the crime if he needed help did I?

No, I must have misread that..............


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## moose7802 (Nov 24, 2013)

I don't think he will responding to that question anyways as he has been banned from this board. 

Tyler


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## Palladium (Nov 24, 2013)

ericrm said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > dang it Ralph, beat me to it.
> ...



Actually i do! Your covered up to 1 Million dollars! I have always conducted my business professionally be it a corporation or a small business venture. You can incorporate a business, get all the licenses, and commercial general liability insurance with Commercial property insurance included for less than a $1,000. Liability insurance is fairly cheap. It always comes from the profits in the end anyway so if i only theoretically make $1,001 then at least it wasn't a loss plus it's all protected. It's the best way to protect you personal assets from your business assets and give your company so validity. You do bring up a very good point though. You wouldn't believe how many people will mail you $10-20,000 worth of product without even as much as talking on the phone to you. Also just because a business has all the proper credentials doesn't mean it's honest in the way it conducts business. Especially in refining!

Plus if the shed burned down that means i'm one step ahead of the game. 

Incineration......... Check! :shock:


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## Auggie (Nov 24, 2013)

It is my most humble opinion and belief that we should respect our tradition of considering those accused of bad acts as being innocent until they are proven guilty. Granted, it does not look good for Rusty, and certainly in a commercial sense he has defaulted and is, no doubt, in dishonor.

He did wrong, and from the evidence it would seem he is culpable of theft. However, I think the gnashing of teeth of uninvolved parties serves no useful purpose. I would prefer we remain civil even in light of such dishonorable behavior, lest we descend to the same level, no?


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## Anonymous (Nov 24, 2013)

Auggie said:


> It is my most humble opinion and belief that we should respect our tradition of considering those accused of bad acts as being innocent until they are proven guilty. Granted, it does not look good for Rusty, and certainly in a commercial sense he has defaulted and is, no doubt, in dishonor.
> 
> He did wrong, and from the evidence it would seem he is culpable of theft. However, I think the gnashing of teeth of uninvolved parties serves no useful purpose. I would prefer we remain civil even in light of such dishonorable behavior, lest we descend to the same level, no?



Respectfully Auggie your post contradicts itself at the basest of levels. In the first paragraph you advocate the innocent until proven guilty approach whilst in the second paragraph you agree that based upon the evidence he is culpable of theft. Regardless of any gnashing of teeth, we are not descending to "the same level" as we are not stealing from other people.


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## Palladium (Nov 24, 2013)

spaceships said:


> Auggie said:
> 
> 
> > It is my most humble opinion and belief that we should respect our tradition of considering those accused of bad acts as being innocent until they are proven guilty. Granted, it does not look good for Rusty, and certainly in a commercial sense he has defaulted and is, no doubt, in dishonor.
> ...



Here in the US we have two systems under the court, civil and criminal. Even though your actions may not be subjected to criminal liability where it's a question of the burden of proof being on the state and the presumption of innocence outweighs that accusation until guilt is proven, the civil system does not have that same requirement to prove fault or guilt and therefore provides a second line of defense to hold someone accountable for their actions. I believe that may be alone the lines of what he has presented.


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## Anonymous (Nov 24, 2013)

Fair enough Palladium and Auggie. Maybe it's an intercontinental difference of understanding. I'll keep quiet on that one now, although I was beginning to see a pattern in recent posts that almost looked like sympathy was with rusty, not the guy who got ripped off.

That would be pretty twisted, obviously I misunderstood and posted accordingly.

Thanks for pointing it out to me. 

Jon


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## Palladium (Nov 24, 2013)

jeneje said:


> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> > I live vicariously through myself. :lol:
> ...



Thank you. Yes i know. 
It's the NSA's, :shock: I mean Googles way of sticking it to me!


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## JHS (Nov 24, 2013)

I meant Rusty do you need help.I do not know if rusty was hurt
or if he had a hart attack or what happened.
I do know the op is ok as far as his health is concerned,but i do not know about Rusty.
Rusty was a member here for quite awhile.He has helped me several times.If there is something wrong I can help with,then I will.
until I know what happened,I will not pass judgement on Rusty,or anyone else,not if,but when this sort of situation comes up again.
john


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## Smack (Nov 24, 2013)

Auggie said:


> It is my most humble opinion and belief that we should respect our tradition of considering those accused of bad acts as being innocent until they are proven guilty. Granted, it does not look good for Rusty, and certainly in a commercial sense he has defaulted and is, no doubt, in dishonor.
> 
> He did wrong, and from the evidence it would seem he is culpable of theft. However, I think the gnashing of teeth of uninvolved parties serves no useful purpose. I would prefer we remain civil even in light of such dishonorable behavior, lest we descend to the *same level, no?*



No, no one else here is wrongfully in possession of another parties material. Besides, everyone here is exercising their right to speak freely about a very disturbing issue.


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## AndyWilliams (Nov 25, 2013)

JHS said:


> I meant Rusty do you need help.I do not know if rusty was hurt
> or if he had a hart attack or what happened.
> I do know the op is ok as far as his health is concerned,but i do not know about Rusty.
> Rusty was a member here for quite awhile.He has helped me several times.If there is something wrong I can help with,then I will.
> ...



How do you square his silence in all of this? If he never advises you, much less the rest of us, will you forever hold your judgment in abeyance? That is very nice for the one who seems guilty, if they never answer, they never need face your judgment.

I, on the other hand, have taken note of Harold's posts that Rusty had been checking in, but not commenting. And while one has the right to remain silent, they are certainly leaving themselves open to being judged, without their input.


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## jeneje (Nov 25, 2013)

Just a note here,
Gill (rusty) expected to get Banned from the GRF over this matter. He told me awhile back that he had *NO* more use for forums. It, seemed as through he had lost interest in all things forum related. 

Its just bad that alexxx got caught up in it. 
Ken


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## JHS (Nov 25, 2013)

Perhaps we could help alexxx.
If one of the forum mod's could set up a paypal account,where 
some of the 25'000 members could send a buck a piece
for alexxx we could make up his loss,and help get him going again.
john


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## Anonymous (Nov 25, 2013)

AndyWilliams said:


> JHS said:
> 
> 
> > I meant Rusty do you need help.I do not know if rusty was hurt
> ...



Andy I agree completely with this. The guy could have stepped up to the plate and said something. He chose not to despite being logged into the forums as Harold pointed out. I don't hold much for the sympathy vote or being an apologist for wrong doers. Also as was pointed out earlier by Smack, we're expressing our opinions about a disturbing issue that concerns us all. Good and fair posts, both of them.


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## JHS (Nov 25, 2013)

Alexxx,
Perhaps,since you have rusty's address,you could contact the local+(to Rusty) authorities
and tell them you have not been able to get ahold of him.
ask if they would check to make sure he is ok.
I suggest this for two reasons.first to verify he is ducking you,second,if he is, he will 
know you mean business.
Alexx,it took a part of your life to aquire those materials.No one tha a right to take that away.
Stealing that part of any man's life is wrong ...
john


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## Anonymous (Nov 25, 2013)

jeneje said:


> As some of you know, Rusty was a member on my forum as well as here. Although, he decided not to answer or defend himself about this matter, he (rusty) requested that I remove him from my forum as well. This has been done.
> 
> He gave no reason and I did not ask,
> Ken



John he's been in touch, see above.


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## grance (Nov 25, 2013)

I dont know about laws up north but down here and for the amount of money that was lost I would pay a personal visit.


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## JHS (Nov 25, 2013)

grance said:


> I dont know about laws up north but down here and for the amount of money that was lost I would pay a personal visit.


 YA that was my very first thought.


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## moose7802 (Nov 25, 2013)

I would definitely pay a personal visit immediately. I can tell you this, it wouldn't be a pleasant visit. Alexx it's been a few years since I have been to Canada but I wouldn't mind seeing that beautiful landscape again. 8) 

Tyler


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## jeneje (Nov 25, 2013)

Guys, you are talking about somebody's home here, not a place of business. Going there un-invited is not smart.
Ken


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## alexxx (Nov 25, 2013)

After thinking a bit more about the case. I will move ahead with legal procedures.
Might take a while, but I have decided to go down that road.

Not only it might succeed, but it will send a clear message to everyone on this forum.
This place needs to remain a safe environment for everyone trying to do legitimate business, especially new members that have little refining or business experience.

I love this forum, I love the members who contribute and I hope we wont see anymore bs like this.

cheers to everybody 

Alex


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## Lou (Nov 25, 2013)

Ok, we've removed him from the forum and this discussion is over; please, no further commentary. If Gill chooses to send a check, feel free to start another thread.


Alexx, I think contacting an attorney and seeking remediation through the proper (and unfortunately, expensive) channels is the way to go.


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## moose7802 (Nov 25, 2013)

I apologize for my remark.

Tyler


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## Rustjunkie (Jan 13, 2014)

There is always more to a story than what makes it to the page.
I am glad there are threads like this and I firmly believe they should stay open to comment on but when they run wild like a mob with pitchforks and torches they lose a lot of meaning.


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