# urgent help plz green aqua regia



## goldrushedharold

hi guys id really like to have posted my first post to say hi and how much i love this site but iam sitting at my laptop wanting to tear my hair out plz help,i want to read the great info that this great site has to offer but i cant seem to focus,after going around like a maniac collecting all the computers i can get my hands on and the money i spent on chemicals ahhhhhhhhhhh,ok sorry i'll get to the point -yesterday i wanted to give refining a try so i went into the garage like a crazy son of a gun i had a chem mask on i for some reason mixed 1 part nitric acid to 3 parts hydrochloric acid altogether about 240mls i added the gold bits i had chipped off into little bits then added them to the solution,it started bubbling instantly then 5 minutes into the process it started to turn to a green colour then the reaction stopped completly so i filtered a little bit to see if the solution will turn yellow when i add the sodium(percipitent),i added a bit of sodium meta to the green test solution it started bubbling and changed to a black brownish colour but it didnt powderize an fall to the bottom like it should,plz someone help me out as i dont know if i should have done the process on a hotplate???and why didnt it turn out yellow ??am i screwd an can i still save the solution,pppllllllllllzzz guys help me out thanks for your time.


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## Smack

Sounds like you didn't get the Nitric Acid out. Did you add water?


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## goldrushedharold

smack thanx for your reply sir no i didnt add any water.


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## Smack

Well if there is still Nitric present there is no reason to add water yet. Did you dissolve the base metals first before you did the AR? So by now you are realizing that you may have been a lot premature on taking action. I can tell your excited but you really need to store your AR and do some reading on this forum. Don't worry about the Gold in AR it will stay there. Grab yourself a beer or whatever you like and use the search in the top right of the page. If your committed to doing this then just keep collecting you scrap but most of all read from the forum while your scrapping.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=52 This would be a good start.


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## goldrushedharold

there was hardly any other metals present on the gold bits i chipped off the boards,could the green be maybe copper contamination?


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## goldrushedharold

iam trying to find info man but iam kinda in a situation now were i have this green aqua regia sitting in front of me & i cant seem to find info to help me change the colour ,how do i get the nitric acid out plz someone?


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## qst42know

goldrushedharold said:


> there was hardly any other metals present on the gold bits i chipped off the boards,could the green be maybe copper contamination?



I have never encountered any solid gold on circuit boards. It's virtually all plated, there is no valid reason for it to be solid. The only thing that varies is the base metal it is applied to.


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## Acid_Bath76

You might have been better served leaching the base metals first in HCL. Add a little heat to speed the process up. Once you've done this a couple times, filter, and add the solids back to the mix. Then add the HCL and a little nitric. Unless you know how much gold you have in the beaker, I just add a little (1-2mL) at a time. With heat, the reaction passes quickly. Without heat, you have to take it slow. Anyhow, this doesn't really help all that much considering where you're at in the process. 
When you added the SMB, you had a little precipitation, but then it disappears because there is still nitric acid in solution. This free nitric reacts with the HCL and then redissolves your precipitating gold. The solution? There are many. Gently simmer your vial of filtered acid. Don't boil it. When you've reduced the volume of your acid by half or more, add some fresh HCL until you've reached your initial volume. If you had 1L of AR, and evaporated down do 400mL, add 600mL of HCL. Once you've done this twice, some will say more, you should have gotten the nitric out of the mix. Next, add your precipitant of choice. Don't forget to dilute your AR before adding your precipitant. Some on the forum do not dilute. You can bypass a lot of the simmering and adding of the HCL by simply adding a small gold BB. This will prevent you from having to evaporate off the nitric, and use it to digest a little of the BB. It's all here on the forum. I think the advice you've gotten so far, is spot on. Put this vial aside, and do some reading. You'll find most of your questions have already been answered on this forum. Had you read HOKE, you would have known exactly what was happening in that beaker. Be safe, read, and this will all come together.


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## Geo

it seems to me that you mixed the AR too strong on the nitric side. if you have more metal to dissolve add that to the solution and add more hcl acid till the reaction starts up again.the reaction stopped because the solution ran out of hcl acid.dont be too concerned over the color,its just all the copper that was in your material.just keep adding metal and hcl till the reaction stops again.this time it will be because the nitric has been used up.filter into a clean glass container that will hold the solution and an equal amount of water(tap water will work).split it up if you have to as long as the ratio is 50/50 solution to water.then add a solution of water and sodium metabisulfite.double the weight of SMB to the weight of gold (weight of gold is 4 grams then 8 grams of SMB).stir briskly,as the solution is dirty you may not notice too much of a color change but you should see black powder precipitate pretty quickly.this will be dirty gold and will need to be refined again.


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## butcher

Study Hokes, goldrushedharold.

I know you get excited to try this out, but jumping into it head first will just cause one big headache, you will constantly be asking questions on what to do next and why does this not work it seems so simple, well truth is there are minor details and if you miss them, it will not work.

Hoke will walk you through some getting acquainted experiments, these will teach you what to expect with metals and acids, she also teaches testing of metals in solution, and how to use aqua regia correctly, she can make this easy for you.


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## goldrushedharold

thanks guys i will try all your methods until i get it right,i know i was a bit excited an still am,thanks for all your advice which was much needed you guys are ledgends,i hope once the nitric acid is out the solution will turn to the yellow colour iam looking for,thanks


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## Claudie

goldrushedharold said:


> thanks guys i will try all your methods until i get it right,i know i was a bit excited an still am,thanks for all your advice which was much needed you guys are ledgends,i hope once the nitric acid is out the solution will turn to the yellow colour iam looking for,thanks



I think you missed the best advice given, READ Hoke's book & study the forum, only then should you try to fix your mess. :|


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## Smack

Claudie said:


> goldrushedharold said:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks guys i will try all your methods until i get it right,i know i was a bit excited an still am,thanks for all your advice which was much needed you guys are ledgends,i hope once the nitric acid is out the solution will turn to the yellow colour iam looking for,thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you missed the best advice given, READ Hoke's book & study the forum, only then should you try to fix your mess. :|
Click to expand...


And further more I would be willing to bet your AR will not turn yellow, maybe darker green. Sounds like you have some copper in solution. Please put the batch you started on hold for a minute untill you get some knowledge on the subject. It will take you a very sort time to read up on AR and what you've done and what to do from here. I collected computer waste for 12 years before I learned what to do and how to do it. I looked and looked for how to process this stuff and never found this forum until I had learned from bits of info here and there over a period of about 2 years. So if you read and learn from here you will have far exceeded my learning curve.


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## Harold_V

goldrushedharold said:


> thanks guys i will try all your methods until i get it right,i know i was a bit excited an still am,thanks for all your advice which was much needed you guys are ledgends,i hope once the nitric acid is out the solution will turn to the yellow colour iam looking for,thanks


Your solution is not going to turn yellow. That you can forget. It is green because it contains elements other than gold---which you can expect when you don't make an attempt to eliminate them before introducing the values to AR. I would suggest the solution contains copper, which, mixed with gold, would be green, but it can be iron or nickel just as well. Makes no difference what it is, not for your purpose. 

That the solution isn't yellow isn't a big deal. You can still recover the values contained within. What is a big deal is that you don't have a clue what you're doing. To put this in context, it's akin to handing the keys to your car to a kid that has no driving experience, and expecting him to perform at an acceptable level. *Ain't likely to happen*.

The best advice you can receive is to start reading, beginning with Hoke's book. Until you have an understanding of what to expect, you will never progress past the "what the hell just happened" stage. 

I saw no mention of you testing with stannous chloride. Until you have that capability, and understand what the test means, please do not continue with what you're doing. All you're going to do is irritate the hell out of people that keep telling you to read and come to an understanding of the fundamentals of refining. When things start making sense, you won't be asking these questions, and can then turn to the board for help in areas that are troublesome. That's where the board shines. We try to not become a kindergarten teacher----that, alone, sorts those that will succeed from those that expect a handout. 

Welcome to the forum. 

Harold


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## butcher

I was typing this while Harold was giving you the advice you need to get you going in the right direction.

The green is from base metals, they needed to be eliminated before using aqua regia on gold; then your gold chloride solution would be yellow.

You can also learn not to use too much nitric when dissolving in aqua regia, GSP has made some very good posts on the subject.

You will also learn how to eliminate the nitric acid before you try to precipitate the gold, Harold’s trick of adding gold to the evaporation process works wonders if you did use more nitric than necessary.

You will also learn how to make and use stannous chloride solutions to test for values in solution, to tell you if you even have gold in your solution or not.

You will learn to cement values from dirty solutions using a piece of copper metal when you do mess up.

you will learn using aqua regia on gold with base metals is not a very wise decision, if you do not completely dissolve all of the metals your values will plate out onto any metals which are not dissolved, and your aqua regia may be barren or almost barren of the values you thought you have in solution, and even if you do dissolve the gold with base metals you have just made a complicated situation to get all of the gold back out.

You must first learn patience without it you’re constantly spending time trying to fix things you done in a hurry without studying first, and studying Hokes book, doing the experiments she teaches, then I would start off with something simple like memory fingers using the methods you could learn from Laser Steve.

Most important is the safety and dealing with waste; these should be studied before even thinking about using chemicals.


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## goldrushedharold

Acid_Bath76 said:


> Gently simmer your vial of filtered acid. Don't boil it. When you've reduced the volume of your acid by half or more, add some fresh HCL until you've reached your initial volume. If you had 1L of AR, and evaporated down do 400mL, add 600mL of HCL. Once you've done this twice, some will say more, you should have gotten the nitric out of the mix. Next, add your precipitant of choice. Don't forget to dilute your AR before adding your precipitant. Some on the forum do not You can bypass a lot of the simmering and adding of the HCL by simply adding a small gold BB. This will prevent you from having to evaporate off the nitric,



acid_bath76 thanks man your advice was much needed ,may i ask after the ar has evaporated why do i need to add more hcl cant i just add the water and percipitate,also what do you mean by adding a small gold bb?

geo-thanks yea i think i did add too much nitric acid,iam not going to be adding any more gold or metals so why do i need to add more HCL??

thanks everyone for your help yes i did rush things and next time i will not refine the next batch until i have the knowledge,just that i was starting to loss hope when i saw it turn green an i wanted to deal with the situtation in hand.


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## Acid_Bath76

You should know why it's turning green for starters. Read HOKE. It's readily available on this site. You're setting yourself up for failure if you expect to recover and refine by simply throwing your material in a mix and expecting forum members to walk you through it step by step. That's my rant, and I'll stop. I hope you take the advice seriously. To answer your questions though. 

** you reduce the solution via simmering NOT boiling to get the active nitric out of the mix. When you reduce it to half/three quarters the volume, you add the fresh HCL to expel the nitric. You can't precipitate the gold, using SMB, while the nitric is still active. Well, you can, but you're going to use a lot. That all depends on how much free nitric is in solution though. 

** If you add a small piece of gold (gold BB/ball), the nitric and HCL will dissolve a little of the BB, thus using up the nitric. This sidesteps the process of having to simmer and "denox" the AR. 

** Water does not get rid of the nitric. Water just gives you more dilute solution with nitric in it, which equals more waste solution to deal with later. I know some people here actually precipitate from condensed solutions. I have tried it, and actually prefer it. I mix up my SMB in a large glass of water, and then add it to the pregnant solution. In a a sense, that is like diluting it. You just have to make sure your nitric is all out of solution. Take your time with this, and read HOKE. READ HOKE. READ HOKE. You'll find most of your questions are answered in her book. When you run into a hurdle, you'll find forum members more enthusiastic to lend you a hand. Most here have put their time in learning this stuff. I don't think anybody is guarding the knowledge, but do you know how many times these questions have been asked? I empathize with you. This is an exciting time, but you're going to hurt yourself, or worse someone else, if you don't dedicate the time necessary to learn how to do this properly.


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## niteliteone

Just one more part to add to the mix. :shock: 
Never start an escrap refining process with aqua regia unless you are sure of what will happen, why it happens and how to deal with what happens. :shock: 
It seams that everyone that starts that way comes here :roll: to fix their problem. :shock: Why don't they just start here first and READ, READ, READ.

Tom C.


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## Acid_Bath76

niteliteone said:


> Just one more part to add to the mix. :shock:
> Never start an escrap refining process with aqua regia unless you are sure of what will happen, why it happens and how to deal with what happens. :shock:
> It seams that everyone that starts that way comes here :roll: to fix their problem. :shock: Why don't they just start here first and READ, READ, READ.
> 
> Tom C.



Well said Tom. Although, I was guilty of this too. The only difference is, I was too embarrassed. I just read as much as I could while the solution sat on a shelf. It was a mess!


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## niteliteone

Hay Acid,
With the knowledge I see you share on the forum You have come a long way 8) keep up the good work and the great posts.
I started with refining escrap back in 96 and I am still learning new things from this forum. The best place I have ever found for learning this trade.  
Tom C.


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## jcriss

I was told to add aluminum into it to get the copper out is this true???


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## Harold_V

jcriss said:


> I was told to add aluminum into it to get the copper out is this true???


Make mine a cheeseburger. 

Harold


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## jcriss

Harold_V said:


> jcriss said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was told to add aluminum into it to get the copper out is this true???
> 
> 
> 
> Make mine a cheeseburger.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...

Sorry Harold I still don't know what you meant by that


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## niteliteone

jcriss said:


> Harold_V said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jcriss said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was told to add aluminum into it to get the copper out is this true???
> 
> 
> 
> Make mine a cheeseburger.
> 
> Harold
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry Harold I still *don't know what you meant* by that
Click to expand...

That was pretty much what Harold meant as a reply to your post. His post makes just as much since, as he addressed in his reply on another thread where he referenced this one.

edit to add;
Without pertinent information completely describing what you are doing, Their is no way to answer your question correctly or wrongly, as this depends on the overall situation, not one piece of it.


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## Harold_V

jcriss said:


> Harold_V said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jcriss said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was told to add aluminum into it to get the copper out is this true???
> 
> 
> 
> Make mine a cheeseburger.
> 
> Harold
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry Harold I still don't know what you meant by that
Click to expand...

I expect you don't, just as we don't understand what you're asking. That's the point. You may Just as well asked "how much does a rock weigh?" 

If you hope to receive answers that have value, you can't minimize your question. How is the reader to know what you're talking about? You've disclosed nothing---not even if your solution does or does not contain values. We'd certainly have a different response for each scenario. 

The real point here is that you are asking questions that reflect the fact that you don't know what you're doing. That's why you were instructed to read Hoke's book. If you don't understand what it teaches, what makes you think you'll understand answers that might be forthcoming? We fully expect readers here to do their homework---to gain the basics so they understand what happens, and why. Until you do that, you're not going to have much success, and you're not going to learn anything by doing everything wrong. Worse than that, when things don't work out, you don't have a clue why----and you don't tell anyone enough to provide the help, even if we were willing. Until you know the basics, we're not!

This forum was brought to its knees by new readers asking stupid questions, often the same tired question several times daily---absolute proof that the readers responsible were doing nothing to improve their knowledge---they just wanted to know how to refine without lifting a finger. I made a decision about how that was going to be handled, and part of that decision is to ban readers who refuse to do as their told. We are here as refiners helping refiners. Are you a refiner? If you are, why are you asking these questions? We are not here to hold your hand, nor to coddle you. You MUST do your part, and you'll do that by reading, gaining the basic knowledge that you must have to succeed. 

So then, what I'm telling you is to start reading Hoke's book, and doing research on the forum, which will help you learn the basics. Until you've done that, you're not going to enjoy success, and you're certainly not going to come to this forum daily and ask questions that reflect the fact that you don't understand the most elementary of the processes. 

And, if after you've read Hoke's book* a few times, you still don't understand what you're reading----and---- please take this to heart-----refining is NOT for you. You don't have the aptitude for this type of activity. 

*When I say to read Hoke's book, I do not mean for you to flip through the pages. What I mean is for you to actually read the book. Every page, and to perform the experiments she provides, as well as to build the requisite test and standard solutions. It's all a part of being a refiner. Do not come here if you aren't doing that. 

Make mine a cheeseburger. 

Harold


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## jbuckwheat

"You can bypass a lot of the simmering and adding of the HCL by simply adding a small gold BB"

Greetings! Noob here. Been reading here the past couple of days but registered only today so I could access "the Hoke" (Hoke seems to be almost a religious tome as referenced here on this site). What brought me here, you ask? Well, I've gathered a bunch of assorted gold/silver jewelry over my years of garage/estate sailing and wanted to do something with it. I had bought a gold/silver test kit some time ago, but never got good results from doing the scratch tests that were described in the instructions with the kit, not to mention that scratching an item seems destructive, but I digress. 

The other day while I was cleaning up, I found an old PM test kit I had forgotten about. I figured it was shot due to its age, but I decided to try something out with it. I had three 24kt gold plated stamps that I had tried to remove the gold from via soaking in water (didn't work, obviously). I took the dried gold/paper bits, put them in a small glass jar and added the contents of the 22kt test acid to them. I set it aside and came back the next day to a nice, gold tinted solution with bits of paper floating in it. Very cool, I thought, it worked. I was so happy with this that I threw in a 24kt plated bar from the test kit to remove the gold from that too. I knew there was something other than gold under that plating, so I figured I would retrieve it quickly after the gold came off, before it would contaminate the solution. Unfortunately I wasn't quick enough (probably could not have been) to avoid contamination by the copper beneath the gold. Now my nice golden solution is green like a jolly rancher candy. 

The original test solution bottle says it is comprised of nitric and muriatic acids. Thru my research, I figured I had AR, so I got some sodium metabisulfite from the brew shop down the street. At first I figured I'd add the smb because I didn't care if my experiment went south, but after awhile I started to see this as a puzzle and I didn't want to let it beat me, so I registered here, did some more reading but I'm still not quite sure what to do. The solution I used may not be AR because of its composition, so the above post I read here may not apply. I put the pretty green solution on a shelf and here I am.

I have two questions. Is my solution AR or is AR a specific solution and not just an acid with gold dissolved in it?

Also, what is a small gold BB? Is BB a reference to a BB like from a Daisy BB gun? Or is BB a cryptic for something else that I have not read enough to understand yet?

Silly, yes, but I had to ask. I promise I will be reading a lot of Hoke in the next couple of weeks, but I am absolutely unfamiliar with chemistry and its lingo, so it's a bit of a learning curve for me. I'll keep reading and making notes, hoping that there is a way to extract the gold from my amateur science project that someone out there may be able to help me with. 

This site is an excellent resource so far. I sincerely appreciate the access to the Hoke. It not only saves me money but time too as I don't have to wait for the book to arrive. I think I may have stumbled upon my newest hobby, PM extraction from so much of the junk stuff I have around and the access I have to scrap computer/electronic goods. I'm excited to be a part of this site, I'm looking forward to exploring this fully.

Cheers!


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## maynman1751

As was stated at the beginning of this post, put your pregnant solution SAFELY aside and study the forum until you find the answers that you want. Continue studying until you have an understanding of what you are trying to accomplish. There are NO SHORTCUTS!!! By trying to fix what you have started will only make matters worse. Take your time. Your gold is not going anywhere. You need to know how to safely deal with the chemicals you're using and how to treat the waste. These are very dangerous chemicals and in the wrong application can cause health issues and even death!!! Below my signature line, in blue, is a good starting point. Stay with it, good luck and welcome to the forum. And yes a BB is just that, a small bead of pure gold.


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## UncleBenBen

Buckwheat you little rascal, Spanky would not be happy. Pretty sure he would tell you to study first!

I was going to ask what you meant by bits of gold chipped off of boards, then I realized you aren't the OP.

As maynman said it's going to take waaaay more than a few days of study to do what you are wanting to do. It is going to take months and years. The amount of gold you have dissolved from 3 stamps and a plated test pin is negligible at best, and basically an unrecoverable amount. Especially with the amount of nitric left in that 22k test solution.

Don't try and waste a pure BB just yet. If the solution isn't active, put a loose lid on it and keep it outside somewhere safe.

Then start reading. Really reading. You have found the best place on the planet to learn this. Study that copy of Hoke. Do her acquaintance experiments, then do them again. Do it tll it makes sense, you will be glad you did. They are a lot of fun also, and you get hands on without wasting values! Study the forum just as intently.

Good luck! It is all up to you to take this forum as the unspeakably awesome resource that it is!


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## nickvc

You have a lot of studying to do to get this process correct.
I'll try and explain what you have done and with what. The stamps which where paper with a thin gold plate dissolved in your acid, yes the test solution is AR, then when you added the plated item it dissolved the gold plate and then the gold in solution cemented back out of your solution onto the remaining base metals.
As has been advised put the chemicals away, safely plus the piece of base metal, and start reading here on the forum, it's al, here and free, you can do this but you need to fully understand not just the processes but the risks and dangers of the chemicals used, once you fully understand the processes it's very easy but it takes time to get that point.
Good luck and start your studying and you will have that little gold button to hold.


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## jbuckwheat

Otay! (Does that remark reveal my age?)

Thanks for the replies. They are pretty much what I figured to hear (I got a good laugh out of the "make mine a cheeseburger" reply found earlier in this page).

One more question; I have the solution in an old jelly type jar, one that has a plasticky finish on the underside of the lid. 
I figured this was probably a sub-optimal surface to have exposed to the corrosive environment since the plasticky surface is not fully intact, so I put plastic wrap on the jar before placing the lid on it. Is this an acceptable way to store this short term? If not, what should I use to store this? Also, I seem to remember someone saying a loose fitting lid should be used
(I'm not able to go back and verify this while writing). Is this correct, or did I miss my meds again?

Thanks for having me here. I'm really looking forward to exploring and learning about PM recovery, in a safe fashion. Now, besides reading, I need to set up a decent work station cuz this ain't gonna fly in my kitchen.

Salud!


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## maynman1751

> I need to set up a decent work station cuz this ain't gonna fly in my kitchen.



OMG!!! :shock: NEVER, EVER do these processes in the house or any other place that is occupied by living creatures. Very dangerous and corrosive fumes!!!! :evil:


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## nickvc

To stress the point on safety do not do this near metals, in the garage or shed unless you don't ever wish to store them in there again, keep the chemicals away from family, friends , pets and wildlife and always think of safety first and foremost.
The solution you have can be stored in sturdy plastic containers, label it and keep it away from prying hands and noses, enjoy your reading and studying and pose questions if you don't understand a point or process we will be on hand to help.


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## upcyclist

jbuckwheat said:


> One more question; I have the solution in an old jelly type jar, one that has a plasticky finish on the underside of the lid.
> I figured this was probably a sub-optimal surface to have exposed to the corrosive environment since the plasticky surface is not fully intact, so I put plastic wrap on the jar before placing the lid on it. Is this an acceptable way to store this short term? If not, what should I use to store this? Also, I seem to remember someone saying a loose fitting lid should be used
> (I'm not able to go back and verify this while writing). Is this correct, or did I miss my meds again?


As Nick said, go for "sturdy plastic". One thing I've found that holds up pretty well is the plastic mason jar lids (produced by Ball, you can find 'em at Walmart in the canning section). They are, of course, for Mason jars, but they'll fit anything built to that spec, and they come in both "standard" and "wide mouth" variety.

Yes, keep it loose--you want to give the hydrogen gasses and acid fumes a place to go. Hence the "and store it outside" bit. 



UncleBenBen said:


> If the solution isn't active, put a loose lid on it and keep it outside somewhere safe.


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