# is this gold? please help!!



## helpme$$$B (May 5, 2022)

PLEASE PLEASE this is probably an easy answer for most of you. i am about 3 levels before you get to novice beginner. i watched a few videos and read the instructions for the gold acid test. my problem is this bar of metal is a collection of scrap melted together and to me seems to follow the rules for testing gold higher than 10kt ad i need some guidqnce understanding the results i am getting. b
background: my grandfather was a collector of ALL things and constantly working to build or break apart something. it is just as likely that he meticulously saved every piece of scrap gold he came in contact with over 30 years as it is that he saved brass or copper fittings and made a solid pipe. i found this by fluke in the only box of anything (tools) that made its way to me after he was gone. 

it isnt magnetic. it feels dense and heavy for its size. its malleable. i have been able to easily chip at the edges. took it to a pawn shop who said he couldnt be sure because it eventually dissolved but there is always a stream of gold colored flakes that never dissolve. as if it displays properties of a gold that is under 10 kt but i cant find what happens or anything to compare it. i read the information but it seems to me like all that would happen is happening because of the mixture of metals. i pu the acid directly on the bar and some turns an aqua color and then some stays clear. here are some pictures. 
i currently have 





<<this i magnified it is still suspeded in the first puddle of acid. i did it 2 more times to make sure i had enough acid... idk , my camera is horrible but hopefuly u get the idea and can tell me what to do next. please and thank you


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## eaglekeeper (May 5, 2022)

Do you know how to do a stannous test? If there is gold alloyed with the metal it should show on the stannous test. Depending on how much gold there is will dictate the color of the test. The stain can range anywhere from pink to black.


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## helpme$$$B (May 7, 2022)

eaglekeeper said:


> Do you know how to do a stannous test? If there is gold alloyed with the metal it should show on the stannous test. Depending on how much gold there is will dictate the color of th




I had not heard of it. But I searched it and ordered some supplies. It definitely is the type of test I was trying to find. Thank you.


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## eaglekeeper (May 7, 2022)

You can make stannous chloride with Muriatic acid from Lowe's/Home Depot and Tin. Only draw back is you'll have to buy a whole gallon of Muriatic acid.... I've never found it in smaller amounts. Or you can buy a small bottle of stannous chloride crystals off Amazon, but I think you would still need Muriatic acid.

A stannous test can also test for Platinum and Palladium. Depending on the color of the stain will indicate what medal is solution. The tricky part is if you have a mixture of these medal in solution at the same time. There is a trick to reading that stain in that situation.


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## Yggdrasil (May 7, 2022)

eaglekeeper said:


> You can make stannous chloride with Muriatic acid from Lowe's/Home Depot and some lead free fishing sinkers from Walmart, as long as they are made of zinc. Only draw back is you'll have to buy a whole gallon of Muriatic acid.... I've never found it in smaller amounts. Or you can buy a small bottle of stannous chloride crystals off Amazon, but I think you would still need Muriatic acid.
> 
> A stannous test can also test for Platinum and Palladium. Depending on the color of the stain will indicate what medal is solution. The tricky part is if you have a mixture of these medal in solution at the same time. There is a trick to reading that stain in that situation.


I think you mean Tin, Zinc won't work.


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## eaglekeeper (May 7, 2022)

Sorry, you are correct. Not sure how I mixed that up.


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## eaglekeeper (May 7, 2022)

eaglekeeper said:


> You can make stannous chloride with Muriatic acid from Lowe's/Home Depot and Tin. Only draw back is you'll have to buy a whole gallon of Muriatic acid.... I've never found it in smaller amounts. Or you can buy a small bottle of stannous chloride crystals off Amazon, but I think you would still need Muriatic acid.
> 
> A stannous test can also test for Platinum and Palladium. Depending on the color of the stain will indicate what medal is solution. The tricky part is if you have a mixture of these medal in solution at the same time. There is a trick to reading that stain in that situation.


I corrected my post to prevent confusion.


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## Shark (May 7, 2022)

On occasion I find hydrochloric acid in quart bottles at Ace Hardware. Almost the same price as a gallon though.


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## eaglekeeper (May 8, 2022)

Thanks, was it labeled as Muriatic acid or a pool Ph adjuster.

Ace hardware is my one-stop-shopping when I needed agents. However, my Ace hardware has stopped selling Nitrate of Soda. So now I have to go to Lowe's when I need a nitrate to make nitric acid.


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## helpme$$$B (May 8, 2022)

eaglekeeper said:


> I corrected my post to prevent confusion.


ok i looked into it and i got a small lab amber colored glass dropper bottle. i have hydrochloric acid and i have ordered the stannus chloride crystals because dissovling metal pieces seemed like process and i dont have a place for fumes to safely deal with the fumes from a heated solution or anything like that. so im waiting on those to arrive.
*im found a method saying to dissolve 3.2 grams in 30 ml of hydrochloric acid. 

SO MY NEXT BIG QUESTION IS I NEED SOLUTION FOR THIS TEST... and I have this big ol bar. i still have about a half teaspoon i grinded down into a powder. can i just mix it in water. being suspended in water sufficient for this or does it need to actually dissolve? what do i dissolve it in? i appreciate your input


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## olawlor (May 8, 2022)

To my eye, that bar looks like a thick brass "drift punch", which makes sense to be in a toolbox. (You use a brass punch when a steel punch would mar the surface, like driving a machined pin.) The edges of the bar have been ground, which is common on punches after the top mushrooms with use, and rare on precious metals because grinding scatters the valuable dust in all directions.

Brass powder should dissolve completely in nitric acid, while any gold alloy will be either untouched or leave a gold powder behind. 

The stannous test only works after you've dissolved the metal.


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## Shark (May 8, 2022)

eaglekeeper said:


> Thanks, was it labeled as Muriatic acid or a pool Ph adjuster.
> 
> Ace hardware is my one-stop-shopping when I needed agents. However, my Ace hardware has stopped selling Nitrate of Soda. So now I have to go to Lowe's when I need a nitrate to make nitric acid.


Labeled as Muriatic acid. It is the same label as the gallon jug just in a smaller bottle. I have noticed it varies from store to another if the smaller bottles are available.


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## helpme$$$B (May 8, 2022)

Shark said:


> On occasion I find hydrochloric acid in quart bottles at Ace Hardware. Almost the same price as a gallon though.





Yggdrasil said:


> I think you mean Tin, Zinc won't work.


thank you for your input everyone. im currently waiting on supplies to arrive and also trying to find the best way to turn my mixture of melted metal bar into a melted metal solution. im open to suggestions, easiest way possible is best for me.


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## eaglekeeper (May 8, 2022)

helpme$$$B said:


> thank you for your input everyone. im currently waiting on supplies to arrive and also trying to find the best way to turn my mixture of melted metal bar into a melted metal solution. im open to suggestions, easiest way possible is best for me.


I am not sure what you mean by "melted metal solution".

I agree with Olawlor, Kind of looks like a brass punch/pin of some sort, but I could be wrong.


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## helpme$$$B (May 10, 2022)

olawlor said:


> To my eye, that bar looks like a thick brass "drift punch", which makes sense to be in a toolbox. (You use a brass punch when a steel punch would mar the surface, like driving a machined pin.) The edges of the bar have been ground, which is common on punches after the top mushrooms with use, and rare on precious metals because grinding scatters the valuable dust in all directions.
> 
> Brass powder should dissolve completely in nitric acid, while any gold alloy will be either untouched or leave a gold powder behind.
> 
> The stannous test only works after you've dissolved the metal.


i was the one who grinded the edges to make powder because my gold scratch test kept dissovling but always left gold powder floating even using the 10kt solution. i watched a so many videos and to me it made sense that it could be lower than 10 kt gold. which seemed logical if it had been melted from a bunch of scrap jewelry. 
there is a mushroom like head on one side but the metal seems to soft to be used as a punch and its like a 2.5 inch diameter. and its heavy maybe im talking myself into it. but there is always dust left using the gold test kit.thts why im trying to find a more definitive way to determine if its brass or gold. will the stannus test work if gold is suspended in a solution. like if the powder i grinded is mixed into water. or if i test what is left over after puttting the 24kt test solution on the powder? im not sure i should be disolving metals or making aqua regia in my backyard after watching a few youtube videos. 


eaglekeeper said:


> I am not sure what you mean by "melted metal solution".
> 
> I agree with Olawlor, Kind of looks like a brass punch/pin of some sort, but I could be wrong.


sry...i meant just exactly that i have a big bar of different metals that have been melted down. and for the stannus test i need a solution.. ie.. my bar of mixed metals that had been previously melted together.....but now its a solution ....melted metal solution).....(this is not my profession or even a hobby. ,my vocab reflects that.! sry....i have the powder because i was the one who grinded the bar edges and have a small amount of dust left. just asking if the gold can be suspended in solution for it to work or does the gold need to actually be dissolved into solution.


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## galenrog (May 10, 2022)

Olawlor is right. Brass drift punch. Nothing more. 

Time for more coffee.


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## Martijn (May 10, 2022)

helpme$$$B said:


> i was the one who grinded the edges to make powder because my gold scratch test kept dissovling


You answered your own question there. There is no gold.


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## helpme$$$B (May 10, 2022)

Martijn said:


> You answered your own question there. There is no gold.


it kept dissolving the line and leaving gold powder suspended in the solution undisolved. like i said in thE original question with pictures. showing what is left behind after nitric acid even with 10 kt testing solution...like since it is scrap jewelry it has a lower kt than 10. meaning it wouldn't leave it untouched like if u scratch a 10 kt ring. but it dissolves and leaves gold powder. thats what Im asking. i havent answered it myself or had it answered by anyone except the guy everyone agrees with its brass...but if he is the correct one it. it actually isnt brass. so what do you think?


galenrog said:


> Olawlor is right. Brass drift punch. Nothing more.
> 
> Time for more coffeE





galenrog said:


> Olawlor is right. Brass drift punch. Nothing more.
> 
> Time for more coffee.


"Brass powder should dissolve completely in nitric acid, while any gold alloy will be either untouched or leave a gold powder behind."

so owaler said that. ...the whole reason i asked the question is because gold powder is left behind suspended in the nitric acid from the gold testing. thats the original question with pictures of all the gold dust left behind not dissolved. so does that mean its a brass punch? or is he right about this too? what part is he right about? if your going to comment conflicting information without reading the thread id rather u just drink your coffee and mind your own.


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## Yggdrasil (May 10, 2022)

helpme$$$B said:


> it kept dissolving the line and leaving gold powder suspended in the solution undisolved. like i said in thE original question with pictures. showing what is left behind after nitric acid even with 10 kt testing solution...like since it is scrap jewelry it has a lower kt than 10. meaning it wouldn't leave it untouched like if u scratch a 10 kt ring. but it dissolves and leaves gold powder. thats what Im asking. i havent answered it myself or had it answered by anyone except the guy everyone agrees with its brass...but if he is the correct one it. it actually isnt brass. so what do you think?
> 
> 
> "Brass powder should dissolve completely in nitric acid, while any gold alloy will be either untouched or leave a gold powder behind."
> ...


Well, it may be gold plated brass?


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## Martijn (May 11, 2022)

Or a beryllium bronze sparkfree drift tool. 
Bronze and nitric can cause problems. The tin in it. 
Was the density determined? 
Think about its purpose. What is it and what was it used for?
You grinded the edges off where the piece was deformed, presumably by hammer blows. 
Why would there be any gold in such a tool? 
Makes no sense to me. I honestly think you're wasting your time here.


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## Martijn (May 11, 2022)

'_Because gold powder is left_' 
Have you positively determined that it actually is gold powder and not wishfull thinking? 
An alloy with gold consumed by nitric will leave behind brown or black powder, maybe even purple, but gold colored, no. Too small pieces to glitter. Or it was a really bad uneven alloy or gold plating, which makes no sense. 
25% of gold with 75% silver leaves a brown skeleton behind, not shiny gold powder. 

Then: is it Brass? IF SO: then it would dissolve in nitric yes, but is it in fact or is that another assumption? 
Don't waste your time. Not all that glitters is gold. Sorry. 

You could use it to smash things with. 

Martijn.


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