# I really need help ( get silver from silver button batteries )



## saadat68 (Apr 23, 2017)

Hi
I want to recycle silver button batteries and rent a workshop for it. Yesterday I wanted crush some batteries with pliers and digest with nitric acid but I can't. It is very very hard to dissemble batteries with pliers and hands. My hands damaged after crushing just 100 gram!!!  

Now I must find a new way quickly. I know I can use hammer mill but I can not find it in my country. 

What do you think about these process?

1: Leach with AR to digest shells and after I have silver chloride ( right? )
2: Leach with HCL to digest shells and after I have silver, silver oxide and silver chloride ( right? )


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## nickvc (Apr 23, 2017)

There are plenty of posts about silver button batteries here on the forum so I would suggest some research before you start renting premises, from memory the silver batteries are not that common and that the shell wil not dissolve easily in HCl .
I'm sure someone has found a good method to crack the shells open you might just have to search for it and adapt it to your cicumstances.


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## kjavanb123 (Apr 23, 2017)

You can pyrolyze the batteries, then smelt them to get the silver. How much batteries?


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## saadat68 (Apr 23, 2017)

nickvc said:


> There are plenty of posts about silver button batteries here on the forum so I would suggest some research before you start renting premises, from memory the silver batteries are not that common and that the shell wil not dissolve easily in HCl .
> I'm sure someone has found a good method to crack the shells open you might just have to search for it and adapt it to your cicumstances.


I searched before there isn't any information that can help


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## saadat68 (Apr 23, 2017)

kjavanb123 said:


> You can pyrolyze the batteries, then smelt them to get the silver. How much batteries?


1 kg 

Can you explain more? 
Do you say pyrolyze them without crushing ? they explode in high temperature


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 23, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> I searched before there isn't any information that can help


...did you?


http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3212


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## saadat68 (Apr 23, 2017)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> > I searched before there isn't any information that can help
> ...




Yes I read this topic several times. 
My problem is shells of batteries


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## saadat68 (Apr 23, 2017)

I think digest with AR is best way and get me metal silver, silver oxide and some silver chloride 
But I don't know how covert them to silver


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## Smack (Apr 23, 2017)

No, the BEST way would be to physically peal away the casing of the batteries with a pair of side cutters, no matter what amount of batteries you have. For a multitude of reasons.


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## kernels (Apr 23, 2017)

Time to inject some harsh reality . . . 1kg of batteries will yield how much metallic silver ? Not very much. Silver is worth less than US$20 per ounce. 

Do you want to sit there peeling batteries with a side-cutter for hours ? or for that matter, rent a workshop to do it in ?


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## Palladium (Apr 23, 2017)

Hammer mill, screen, wash with hot water twice, and dissolve in nitric, precipitate with hcl. 
Takes little nitric when done right and batteries have a good profit margin when done right.


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## anachronism (Apr 23, 2017)

Hi Ralph he's already said that he can't get a hammer mill. 8) 

Jon


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## saadat68 (Apr 23, 2017)

Palladium said:


> Hammer mill, screen, wash with hot water twice, and dissolve in nitric, precipitate with hcl.
> Takes little nitric when done right and batteries have a good profit margin when done right.



I can buy laboratory jaw crusher but I don't know it crush batteries or not. Also I don't have enough money and I think it is expensive 
Can I use food mill ?! For example coffee mill or herb grinder like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/9FQ-UD-500-Straw-Crushing-Machine-Hammer-Mill-Grain-Grinder-without-motor/1000001961501.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.82.xZIYPO&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10138_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10178_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_5110014_10181_10078_10079_10073_10070_10123_10124,searchweb201603_2,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=59eb06d4-979e-418a-b7ad-e45d19660b4d&algo_expid=a70e46cf-d34a-47ff-bf97-0981782c237f-10&algo_pvid=a70e46cf-d34a-47ff-bf97-0981782c237f

Must there is a way to crush them with something

Smack
Maybe in 3 hr I can crush 1 kg cells !!!

kernels
Yes I rent workshop for this   :?


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## kjavanb123 (Apr 23, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> kjavanb123 said:
> 
> 
> > You can pyrolyze the batteries, then smelt them to get the silver. How much batteries?
> ...



If your pyrolysis setup is right, the batteries explosion will be contained in the pyrolysis chamber.

Never done batteries but I guess pyrolyzing them would make the shell looser, so it can be broken off easier.

Once pyrolized you can mix them with soda ash and borax and smelt in a furnace like this;



Please ignore the other pipes as this was during my pyrolysis testing. 

During smelting, your batteries shell and other base metals report to slag, and silver metal is left at the crucible.

Regards
Kj


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## Palladium (Apr 23, 2017)

The way the batteries are made they have a plastic seal where the cases are pressed together and heating them to make them pop open won't work. The seal will melt and that causes pressure to be released and not build up. The only way to make them pop is induction heating I have found. With induction heating 97% success and with conventional heating about 5%. Other than that a hammer mill is the only way for production I have found.


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## patnor1011 (Apr 23, 2017)

kjavanb123 said:


> You can pyrolyze the batteries, then smelt them to get the silver. How much batteries?



Are you for real Kevin?
Why would anyone advocate incineration of mercury containing batteries? 
Never put battery in fire as it will explode and exploding battery releasing mercury vapors is really something insane.


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## patnor1011 (Apr 23, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> Hi
> I want to recycle silver button batteries and rent a workshop for it. Yesterday I wanted crush some batteries with pliers and digest with nitric acid but I can't. It is very very hard to dissemble batteries with pliers and hands. My hands damaged after crushing just 100 gram!!!
> 
> Now I must find a new way quickly. I know I can use hammer mill but I can not find it in my country.
> ...




Get bigger pliers. 
1 kilogram of batteries does not warrant any investment in machinery other than bigger pliers.
Forget herb crusher. Think about why it is called herb crusher and you will see grinding metal is not a good idea. It will work and perhaps you will do kilogram maybe even few but then you will notice that knives inside disappeared. 
If you are unable to do them by hand then get 10$ worth coffee grinder, it will not last long but can do kilogram you have. Do not forget that it will be coated in mercury and you will be breathing it while grinding and also that your rented shop will be contaminated too.


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## saadat68 (Apr 23, 2017)

I want to recycle 300 to 500 kg per year 
My mean was 1 kg is there now.

Pliers really don't work 

kjavanb123
I heated some batteries. they explode with strong voice. I can not do this process here


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## saadat68 (Apr 23, 2017)

Today I read a patent. it says conventional method is digest batteries in AR and then pyrolyse with sodium carbonate in 1000 C. It doesn't explain more.

What do you think ? 
Can someone help about this process ?


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## anachronism (Apr 23, 2017)

DId we cover this all before some months back for Saadat? Of course I could be wrong but it looks like a Groundhog Day moment here.


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## patnor1011 (Apr 23, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> I want to recycle 300 to 500 kg per year
> My mean was 1 kg is there now.
> 
> Pliers really don't work
> ...




*Do not heat mercury containing batteries if you value your life.*

Then forget herb crusher altogether. 
What you can use is small shredder with bottom screen with holes smaller than smallest battery like this one:

http://filamaker.eu/product/mini-shredder/

Few videos of that shredder in action:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=filamaker+mini+shredder

You will need to install screen on bottom so not shredded batteries will not fall out only when they are done. You can use it powering it by hand and when you make more from your batteries invest in small motor.

Sieve can be seen at 5:23 mark on this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyk2_ivr4yQ


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## patnor1011 (Apr 23, 2017)

anachronism said:


> DId we cover this all before some months back for Saadat? Of course I could be wrong but it looks like a Groundhog Day moment here.



Yes, a complete deja vu.


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## saadat68 (Apr 23, 2017)

patnor1011 said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> > I want to recycle 300 to 500 kg per year
> ...



That is very interesting but I don't think I can buy from this site and ship to my country 
I must go search in Alibaba maybe I can find mini shredder there


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## patnor1011 (Apr 23, 2017)

Nope. You are not going to find anything like that on alibaba. 
Did you asked them if they will ship it to you or not?
Thinking cant solve your problem you need to act so send them email and find out. It is certainly cheaper and much better than herb crusher you thought about.
If they will not want to ship it then build your own. 
All files needed complete manual are available, you can have all parts made locally and assemble it yourself. You may not need this big but I am sure it can be scaled down.
Plans and manual:
https://preciousplastic.com/en/videos/build/shredder/


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## saadat68 (Apr 23, 2017)

patnor1011
I don't ask them but I know they can ship for me :? 
Thank you very much 
I think I must start my work whit pliers and soon start to build a small shredder for own work.


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## Palladium (Apr 23, 2017)

You can build a cheap hammer mill from scrap chains and an old motor if you have somebody who can cut and weld pretty good. I built one a long time ago for about $100 and the majority of that was for a used trade day gas motor and the cost of the welding rods. Find a scrap yard and raid it for what you need. Gas would probably be cheaper and more reliable considering your location. If your going to do this their is no way around it. I've done a few tons of this materials and you aren't going to cut corners or find a better way that hasn't already be tried.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/hard-rock-mining/397851-ggs-chain-flail-impact-mill.html


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 23, 2017)

saadat, listen to Palladium.

Dave


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## Lino1406 (Apr 23, 2017)

Small silver batteries envelope is stainless steel. Best to digest in AR - very quick reaction. Must have a good hood! Remember there's also zinc in there. The melting with sodium carbonate is converting silver chloride to silver. Big batteries may contain cooling spirals made of copper - in this case the technology changes a bit.


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## kjavanb123 (Apr 23, 2017)

patnor1011 said:


> kjavanb123 said:
> 
> 
> > You can pyrolyze the batteries, then smelt them to get the silver. How much batteries?
> ...



As you can read in my post, I suggested pyrolysis which supposely condense the smokes and re burn the excessive smoke from condenser.

I never proposed incineration, plus they have to be tested if pyrolysis follow by smelting is chosen.


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## patnor1011 (Apr 24, 2017)

This is not personal attack or something aimed on you or anybody here but simple truth is that none of the members I know does have pyrolysis unit which is true to its name. Not even you Kevin. What you do is incineration, you just channel smoke back to fire so it is less polluting but still incineration. 
You may get away with what you use in your country, maybe OP too but I can guarantee you that if anyone try to operate anything you do use with batteries containing mercury the way you proposed, in for example EU or USA, all hell would break loose. Not to mention obvious health hazards. 
I cant imagine how one is going to test 300 kilograms of batteries to sort them out before processing to figure out which does contain mercury. According to wiki "Until recently, all silver oxide batteries contained up to 0.2% mercury" so I would guess the possibility of encountering mercury is quite large.


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## Palladium (Apr 24, 2017)

One of my battery clients has built a catalog list going back to the 1970's of battery types and uses optical sorting like this but a little different. He has a + 99 % success rate for sorting by types for silver and non silver as well as mercury. After sorting they go through a very high induction field to open them up and the across the screens to separate the powder from the shells which are then also sold as scrap. Total cost of the induction unit and sorter was close to $50,000 but he does about 2 tons a week.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwJjUA-mAPA[/youtube]


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## saadat68 (Apr 24, 2017)

Palladium said:


> You can build a cheap hammer mill from scrap chains and an old motor if you have somebody who can cut and weld pretty good. I built one a long time ago for about $100 and the majority of that was for a used trade day gas motor and the cost of the welding rods. Find a scrap yard and raid it for what you need. Gas would probably be cheaper and more reliable considering your location. If your going to do this their is no way around it. I've done a few tons of this materials and you aren't going to cut corners or find a better way that hasn't already be tried.
> 
> http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/hard-rock-mining/397851-ggs-chain-flail-impact-mill.html



Thanks
Build a hammer mill is very easier and cheaper than shredder and there is some videos in YouTube that help me  . They add *chains *instead of blades. :shock: Does it work for batteries ?

*Edit:
*These hammer mills use for herbs and wheat here. So if I buy one of them and add chain instead of blades and change holes bigger it works for me. Right?









Why this blade doesn't work for batteries but chain work ?


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## g_axelsson (Apr 24, 2017)

0.2% is 2 kilos per ton, or 0.6-1 kg per year if you process 300-500 kg.

If you incinerate then it will go up with the smoke and if you crush and dissolve it will follow the silver or the waste water. In any case it's vital to control it so you don't poison your neighborhood.

Göran


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## patnor1011 (Apr 24, 2017)

Here we go again. 
IT WILL WORK. Blades or chains whatever. I am using a coffee grinder for incinerated IC chips and it works like charm. The real question here is: FOR HOW LONG? I tend to go through one grinder for roughly every 15 kilogrammes of IC chips.
In case you still don't understand then just think about what grain mill or herb mill mean and how effectively and for how long it will perform as desired with steel instead of herbs and grain. So if you plan on doing it for some time and in some quantities then buy or build proper equipment. It may look expensive but you will save money in long term.


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## upcyclist (Apr 24, 2017)

And don't even think about the 300-500kg per year until you can handle your 1kg batch.


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## saadat68 (May 10, 2017)

70 percent of process has been complete 
I buy a 2 hp motor with 3000 rpm now need to make a blade 









http://uupload.ir/files/1xxe_123.jpg
http://uupload.ir/files/fkp1_124.jpg
http://uupload.ir/files/uqo2_125.jpg


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## saadat68 (May 10, 2017)

Palladium said:


> One of my battery .....



Hi Palladium
Can you give me some instructions for making blade ?

As you know batteries are very small 
If there is a gap ( for example 5 cm ) between mill and blades can it crush batteries ?
I can not make blade with small gap. :?






Like this :
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/drifter_046/crusher001.jpg


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## saadat68 (May 12, 2017)

Any advise?


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## Lino1406 (May 12, 2017)

Use chemistry instead


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## Palladium (May 12, 2017)

Good morning sir. Sorry for the delay. The first hammer i used before i built one had a very small gap between the blades and the outer wall. The batteries were getting torn and shredded into little pieces to the point that i had to have a magnetic belt to remove the fine pieces of shredded metal. You don't want to crush or shred the batteries, you just want to crack them. It was causing me a whole lot more work than i needed. Their are some instances where you want that affect, but this is not one of them. All we are really trying to do is get to the powder inside with the least amount of chemicals, work, or trouble involved. Sort of like cooking an egg! We want the yoke inside, but the shell is worthless to us. We only want the hammer mill blades to crack the batteries open so we can get access to the silver inside. Think of hitting an egg with a baseball bat! For this application i guess the clearance between the blades and the wall could be any distance that you want as long as it doesn't shred it into fine pieces and the machine still performs as required.


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## saadat68 (May 12, 2017)

Palladium said:


> Good morning sir. Sorry for the delay. The first hammer i used before i built one had a very small gap between the blades and the outer wall. The batteries were getting torn and shredded into little pieces to the point that i had to have a magnetic belt to remove the fine pieces of shredded metal. You don't want to crush or shred the batteries, you just want to crack them. It was causing me a whole lot more work than i needed. Their are some instances where you want that affect, but this is not one of them. All we are really trying to do is get to the powder inside with the least amount of chemicals, work, or trouble involved. Sort of like cooking an egg! We want the yoke inside, but the shell is worthless to us. We only want the hammer mill blades to crack the batteries open so we can get access to the silver inside. Think of hitting an egg with a baseball bat! For this application i guess the clearance between the blades and the wall could be any distance that you want as long as it doesn't shred it into fine pieces and the machine still performs as required.


Thanks a lot
That is very good. So I must make a heavy blade to crack them 8) 
Also I don't need holes under the pipe and must cover them again

I think my last problem in making hammer mill will be dusts 
Does this process have dust ? If yes I want to attach vacuum cleaner to may hammer mill 
How do you deal with dusts?


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## saadat68 (May 12, 2017)

Lino1406 said:


> Use chemistry instead


Thanks but milling is better you can reduce acid consumption and recycle steels 
I thinks it is cheaper than chemical method too 

Anyway I made 70% of my hammer mill and spend my moneys. I must finish it


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## Cantero (May 13, 2017)

saadeat68 said:


> Lino1406 said:
> 
> 
> > Use chemistry instead
> ...



Don't start renting premises yet lol. The profits aren't as great as you'd think from these little batteries if you're doing it by hand.


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## saadat68 (May 18, 2017)

Done. It crushes 90% of batteries in 5 min
Now I must find solutions for :

1- Dusts (maybe add a vacuum cleaner )
2- Crush 100% of batteries

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=25588


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## saadat68 (May 24, 2017)

It works but is not perfect
It doesn't mill all of batteries (maybe 10 or 20 percent remain )
Any idea?


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## Palladium (May 24, 2017)

screen
separate
repeat!


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## Kappler (Oct 12, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> Lino1406 said:
> 
> 
> > Use chemistry instead
> ...



10 to 20 percent left is not bad, at least I don't think it is. Did you find any solutions to get it to a 100%?


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## saadat68 (Oct 13, 2017)

Hi
Yes minimum 20% is left
I don't think a hammer mill can mill 100% of batteries.
little charge and mill for longer time raise efficiently


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## Augustiner (Aug 29, 2019)

saadat68 said:


> Lino1406 said:
> 
> 
> > Use chemistry instead
> ...



Don't start renting premises yet lol. The profits aren't as great as you'd think from these little batteries if you're doing it by hand.


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