# Has Anyone Actually Made A Profit?



## Jackhopper09 (Jul 23, 2011)

I was just wondering if anyone has made a profit after investing time and money into de-electroplating and refining computer parts, gold-filled jewelry, and karat gold. And if you have please respond telling me how you came about your profit. I am quickly becoming interested, but before I spend a few hundred on necessary parts and chemicals, I just want to know if anyone has made a decent amount of money from refining.

Jack


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## nickvc (Jul 23, 2011)

There are many here on the forum and all of the moderators did and or do make a living from refining but if you want to start look at it as a hobby to begin with that may show a return or cover it's own costs. 
This is a hugely complex subject that takes years to learn and to be honest most of us are still learning new things all the time, there's no simple path to success in this business but studying and learning will give you a good basis to make decisions about whether this is a fun hobby or a full time occupation.
Start with C.M.Hoke it's available as a free download from Palladiums signature line and also read the forum handbooks, pay particular attention to reading the safety section and be prepared to do your homework, we won't hold your hand and walk you through the processes but we will help if you help yourself and read, ask questions after using the search function as most topics have been covered many times but ask if something really doesn't make sense and help will be on hand.
If you do pursue this hobby this is the only resource worth a damn and we are generally a fairly friendly and a helpful forum but as I will stress again do your part and read until it makes sense.
Welcome to the forum and I wish you luck in your pursuit of knowledge.


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## Jackhopper09 (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks a lot nick and do you think I have to go large scale before I turn a profit or can I stay small scale?


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## nickvc (Jul 23, 2011)

Jackhopper09 said:


> Thanks a lot nick and do you think I have to go large scale before I turn a profit or can I stay small scale?




You can turn a profit on anything but whether it's enough to make a living is a totally different thing.
Take a deep breath Jack and read and learn, only then will you be able to decide whether you can make this pay, all the variables in any business apply in refining with a few more thrown in just to keep it interesting like the raw material cost changing twice a day :shock: you can lose money just by buying at the AM fix and selling it on the PM fix or turn a nice profit doing nothing, personally I think refining for a fixed price,toll refining, is the way to go unless you have access to fixing your metal price as you buy it, see comment above, but I can't tell you how you should approach this it's all down to what you can do and what you want and how skilful you are which feeds back to my suggestion to read and get an understanding of refining in all it's various guises.


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## chawimac (Oct 2, 2011)

Haha,

I started two and a half years ago buying karat scrap. I bought $700 my first month. Now I buy $2MM a week. Yes you can make money buying scrap. Millions of people are in this industry, from refiners, brokers, dealers, pawnshops, you name it. Find a niche and stick to it.

Good Luck!


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## butcher (Oct 2, 2011)

You can win or lose in any business. a lot depends on skill and how you run your outfit, choices you make and gambles you take, how you treat your customers, honesty helps any business, I think nickvc, gave a very good answer.

On the hobby side, or even starting a business, I would suggest forget the chemical part and jumping in with both feet and spend more energy on education first, including safety and dealing with waste, (you can lose money learning on good values, also no need to go out and buy every chemical or fancy lab ware, make due with glass jars and old kitchen ware, buy only what chemical you need now, study as much as possible what to get free or what to purchase, also learning to test for values in metals ore or solutions can determine failure or success in hobby or business or you own wallet. 
as you learn you will get better, build a good relationship with all of your customers buying or selling, be trustworthy and also know who you can trust (or just keep your eyes open), also remember even if you do not have much gold but you spread the word with loose lips what you like to do to the wrong people you may find yourself a victim of robbery or worse, this is not your ordinary home hobby or business, also there are government officials that may visit so having your business or hobby in order is also important (treat waste properly Et cetera) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera).

a good way to get into a business (even from a hobby) after you have an education and skills is by word of mouth, treating people right (if you screw up eat it no matter the cost do not pass on your screw up to your customers, expecting them to pay for your education) good practice by word of mouth spreads and so will your customers (as well as a bad reputation will lose business fast).

Can you make money in this as bussiness? Well that depends on you or the person doing this or anything.

I see where a person could just learn testing of metals and prices, and buy and sell could make a fine business if he knew his job did it well and treated people fairly, knew when to hold Em and when to fold Em.


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## nickvc (Oct 2, 2011)

chawimac said:


> Haha,
> 
> I started two and a half years ago buying karat scrap. I bought $700 my first month. Now I buy $2MM a week. Yes you can make money buying scrap. Millions of people are in this industry, from refiners, brokers, dealers, pawnshops, you name it. Find a niche and stick to it.
> 
> Good Luck!




Well done, you found your niche but I hope with your new found riches you invested in very good security, that sort of money attracts the wrong sort of attention very quickly. If you haven't done so already start looking at it now urgently! Also keep very quiet about what you do for a living, even more so if you have a family.


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## Noxx (Oct 3, 2011)

chawimac said:


> Haha,
> 
> I started two and a half years ago buying karat scrap. I bought $700 my first month. Now I buy $2MM a week. Yes you can make money buying scrap. Millions of people are in this industry, from refiners, brokers, dealers, pawnshops, you name it. Find a niche and stick to it.
> 
> Good Luck!



These numbers are only an indication of how much you buy but do not mean profits. If your margin is 0.5% then you're making roughly $10k/wk is is not a lot considered the employee expenses, fees, et cetera.


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## silversaddle1 (Oct 3, 2011)

I support my wife, a third year vet student at collage, my 13 year old son, myself, 4 dogs, 11 horses, 3 cats, and 22 chickens, all on money I make scrapping computers. It's the only income we have. I refine nothing, just sell the scrap.

everything we own is paid for.

So yes, there are many ways to make a profit in the PM business.


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## Noxx (Oct 3, 2011)

silversaddle1 said:


> I support my wife, a third year vet student at collage, my 13 year old son, myself, 4 dogs, 11 horses, 3 cats, and 22 chickens, all on money I make scrapping computers. It's the only income we have. I refine nothing, just sell the scrap.
> 
> everything we own is paid for.
> 
> So yes, there are many ways to make a profit in the PM business.


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## escrap (Oct 3, 2011)

I agree with Silversaddle,

Me and my partners have built a business up and have yet refined a thing. By the way Scott, Rob said that your horses were beautiful. I hope to make it up there sometime and get to see them as well.

Zack


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## silversaddle1 (Oct 3, 2011)

Zack,

I have a list of scrap for sale, when do you want to come over? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## goldenchild (Oct 3, 2011)

Yes. Buy low sell high.


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## Lou (Oct 3, 2011)

I made a profit.


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 3, 2011)

Lou said:


> I made a profit.



Ditto!


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## Palladium (Oct 4, 2011)

Profit? This is about making money? 

I've been placing ads on Craigslist wanting to buy gold plated computer parts for the last month or so. I figure everyone else is hogging all the karat gold so i found a niche. I've spent close to $500 this month and made probably $2,000. Had to weed through a lot of idiots though, but hey!!, it's good side money.


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## Ocean (Oct 4, 2011)

Making a living here.


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## jimmydolittle (Oct 4, 2011)

Find an organization who is raising funds to operate. Set up a table for testing and weighing. Have the members bring in their donated jewelry. Offer a good percentage to the organization, and sell the stuff to a refiner, and you keep what’s left. It’s not hard to make a profit, with gold, silver, and platinum.


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## Smack (Oct 4, 2011)

If your looking for a hobby then keep it a hobby, otherwise it will turn into just another job.


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## Harold_V (Oct 5, 2011)

Smack said:


> If your looking for a hobby then keep it a hobby, otherwise it will turn into just another job.


Rarely does anyone understand what you said, and, if they do, they think they're exempt. 

I think not! 

Been there, done that, got the T shirts. 

Harold


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## kuma (Oct 5, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> Smack said:
> 
> 
> > If your looking for a hobby then keep it a hobby, otherwise it will turn into just another job.
> ...



Right on!
When I was younger , one of the nicest people I have ever met , 'Biker John' (rest his soul) , used to look after me. He used to build motorbikes from scratch and started to teach me how to grind and weld from about 13 years of age.
Anyway , one time told me about how he once got employment as a motorcycle courier , as he loved riding so much it seemed like his perfect job.
He said that as he had to ride when and where his boss told him to , mostly through congested city streets , it quickly started to take the joy out the one special thing that he liked to do , basicaly I feel that he was trying to advise me on one of life little lessons.
I have been a D.J. for over ten years , I actualy organised my first school disco at the age of thirteen which had me hooked instantly.
[Writing this I'm wandering if it was a conversation with John about wanting to do this for a living when I 'grew up' that led to the courier job conversation just mentioned?]
A few years ago , I raised several thousand pounds and built my sound and lighting rig up even more to where it is today , nearly to the rig of my 'mobile disco' dreams , and I formaly started trading as Next Level Entertainment.
It has been a lot of fun , and I have had the oppurtunity to play in some amazing locations , but it is without doubt taking some of the joy out of it for me. :| 
Something that I used to enjoy purly as a hobby for good times and maybe pocket money and free beer , has now become way more of a chore.
It does pay well , but now it's more that I'm 'having' to do it , then saying 'what the heck , lets turn a bunker into the ministry of sound and get it on' , 8) 
Just my 'dos centavos' ( :mrgreen: )
All the best everyone , and kind regards ,
Chris


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## Harold_V (Oct 6, 2011)

I'd have given my interest in hell to have been a DJ---in particular on a jazz station, but I don't do well with public speaking. I also never made an attempt, for that reason. 

On the subject of a hobby becoming a job. I became a machinist at a young age (right out of high school) because of my interest in building model steam engines. Needless to say, that never happened (the shoemaker's kids go barefoot). What one doesn't realize is that it's not fun to run machines for pleasure when you've just put in a long day running them of necessity. (I grew to hate the machines, and still don't derive pleasure from them even today, although I do appreciate what they allow me to do. It's just not *fun* anymore.) 

To that end, my hobby of gold refining gradually became strong enough to support the two of us (my wife and me). I closed the doors on my machine shop, which, by now, looked a great deal like the enemy, and refined on a full time basis. I thought I was in heaven. I loved what I was doing, and was thrilled to be away from the machines after 26 years, 16 of them being self employed. 

Fast forward ten years, when I was working seven days a week, with long days, and refining suddenly became my enemy. I couldn't wait to retire. I was just as burned out from refining as I'd become from machining. That would have never happened had I kept it as a hobby. I also wouldn't have been able to retire (comfortably) had I not refined full time. 

That's how it worked for me. YMMV.

Harold


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## kuma (Oct 11, 2011)

Hi Harold , how are things ?
I hope that your well!
Firstly , may I appolagise for the seriously late reply , I must have missed your post while trying to trawl through everything else here!  
I do love the playing out and about even though it can be a chore these days , but I'm deffinatly not much of a public speaker myself , in fact it terrifies me!
When I was 18 , I used to M.C. in clubs without any worries , but that was back when it was just for fun and there was always beer involved.
It would be fair to say that my standing in front of hundreds with a microphone , controlling the crowd , was due entirely to 'Dutch Courage' , :lol: 
These days my weapon is usualy a selection of the latest pop or maybe a nice bit of motown , the crowd always guides me! 8) 
I guess that when you get to involved with an interesting hobby it can all to easily take over , but I'm also thinking that it's surley better than having no interest's and ending up doing something that could maybe be more soul destroying in the long run ?
I have no problem with people working in Mc D's , in fact I admire them for having the endless patience that it must require , personaly it would kill me but I notice that half the time I'm in there (guilty pleasure) the staff in there seem to be having a laugh with themselves , I guess that it's a classic case of different strokes for different folks!
Anyway , I can feel myself begining to ramble so I'll leave it there! lol
Once again , I'm sorry for the late reply ,
All the best and kind regards ,
Chris


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## haniandco (Dec 4, 2011)

The Japanese are doing an amazing job on recycling!

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2008/04/27/uk-japan-metals-recycling-idUKT13528020080427

http://inventorspot.com/articles/cell_phone_recycling_dropboxes_gold_ntt_5392


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## kadriver (Dec 7, 2011)

You make your profit when you buy.


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## jimdoc (Dec 7, 2011)

kadriver said:


> You make your profit when you buy.



Only if you do it right.

Jim


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## swainmarshall (Jan 20, 2012)

You can not easy to earn profit. You can make a profit in business first of starting with planing , sources of fund and finance , decide location of business , how to arrange manpower, which method use in production, market analysis.Than process are continue with best management. So i have said not anyone actually made a profit


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## kuma (Jan 22, 2012)

Hello , 
How are things?
I hope your well! 



swainmarshall said:


> You can not easy to earn profit. You can make a profit in business first of starting with planing , sources of fund and finance , decide location of business , how to arrange manpower, which method use in production, market analysis.Than process are continue with best management. So i have said not anyone actually made a profit



I believe that a lot of us , if not the majority of us who collect and recycle electronics , manage to pick up our materials for free , and in some cases even get paid for collecting these materials. 
Aswell as any precious metals that are recovered , there are also quanitites of other materials that have scrap value such as copper , aluminium , stainless steel , and even plastics if sold in quantity , and it does soon build up.
There is also some proffit to be made by reselling working parts on ebay , such as sound cards , video cards , and even collectable chips , ect.
If this is something that one does just as a hobby , which again I believe could well probably the majority of us , there is no need for extra manpower ( except maybe in the case of larger pick-ups ) , and any market reasearch required would be limited to phoning around to get the best prices on your scrap and maybe calling into computer repair shops and placing local 'ads in your search for free scrap electronics.
As others have said , it all depends on how much you value your time , and of course you would need to factor in the cost of fuel.
For me it has been profitable , and I didn't set out to make any money at all , just shiney buttons! 
Every penny that I have made from selling my _scrap_ has been a cherry on the cake that is my learning experience on this wonderful forum.
In an nutshell , it doesn't require rocket science to turn a small profit , even a small profit is profit no matter how you look at it , 8) 
All the best with it chief , and kind regards ,
Chris


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## NobleMetalWorks (Mar 26, 2012)

Just sharing my short experience and comments.

I have been lurking on this site for months, I finally joined. I read Hoke, Wise and Ammen, read many many MANY posts, read even more from many different sources all over the internet. I am barely getting started in this but I wanted to add my two cents.

I spent a lot of time reading and learning first, months. Then I researched and found the best equipment for the best price, many of the things I purchased came from eBay and Craigslist, and were used. I slowly collected the items I needed instead of just buying everything new. In short, I took my sweet time. I come from a computer networking background, and a pharmaceutical manufacturing background (I used to make the Nicoderm patch, talk about deadly, one drop of pure nicotine will kill you DEAD). I was fortunate in this, talk about the Theory of Convergence. I did invest a lot, and now I am in the process of building a scrubber/hood that will work for me. 

This is kind of how things went for me.

1. I read, read more, then I read even more, then I re-read a lot of that over again to make sure I understood it. I bought several books (Wise, Hoke, Ammen) I read this forum, I read other material I found on other web sites. I learned about the equipment, lab work, watched videos, and more.

2. I researched what I needed, watched video's on youtube, read the comments, slowly purchased the additions to my mad scientist lab I needed.

3. Asked friends and family for garbage electronics, I was shocked by how much crap was freely given to me.

4. I processed free e-scrap at first, recording and writing everything I did, improved my process until I was comfortable with the different ways to process different material.

5. Purchased gold bearing scrap off eBay in smaller (about 1 lb) lots of pins, chips, boards, etc. I learned which ones were better or easier to process, and kept records on everything I did.

If I were to give any advice to anyone it would be this, take things slow. Read until you know the material, purchase your items with care and knowledge and then learn how to use them. Process small amounts, yet large enough to actually see a yield, and don't be in a rush to see gold in the bottom of a beaker. DO NOT RUSH!

I have been processing e-scrap every day for just over 3 weeks. Just before writing this I produced 22.3 grams, which may not seem like a lot but I have been doing around this amount about every other day for the past three weeks, sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less. Tonight, with this 22.3 grams it has put me over the top. I have actually been waiting for this before I posted on this thread. I have now paid for all the equipment, and all the material I purchased off eBay and Craigslist. I have made enough to cover all the costs involved in this thus far. I am not one for throwing around numbers to impress anyone, but I would like to say that I invested well over 14k, and I have already paid it off, I have more than half of the material I purchased left to process, and I have decided that this very well can make me a decent living so long as I am extremely safe, and very careful about how I purchase the scrap to process, although I do have to admit I processed the best scrap first because I was concerned about paying off my credit card. But anything I make from this point on is profit.

I am far from being any kind of expert, or even a novice to be honest. I take it slow, everything in baby steps. However, I can already see that this is going to be a decent way to make a living, so long as I am careful and keep to my process. 

Yeah, if you do things right you can make money. I am totally new to this and have had to learn everything from scratch, but if I can do what I have done, then I assure you, anyone can.

I am really enjoying this forum, it has become a permanent tab, always open, in my browser. I have even put together a computer from scrap to have in the garage so I can read while I am working. I owe all of you a huge thanks, I would never have even attempted this without this forum, not ever, not in a million years.


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## eeTHr (Mar 26, 2012)

Still, I think it's better to work at something you like, rather than slave at something you don't like.


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## joem (Mar 31, 2012)

Sbrown: Awesome. Your post is informative, realistic, and to the point on how much this type of activity can drain your finances but through effort and saving it can also repay your debts to it as well as refill your coffers. Great Job.


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## kadriver (Apr 4, 2012)

I just got done with my reports for 2011 tax year - our first full year refining. I have an appointment with the tax man tomorrow. Profits are GOOD except when it comes to taxes.

We did not make a fortune, but it has kept us comfortable and free from the time clock and wages.

I am going to have to sell some gold I did not expect to, just to pay the taxes on the profit we made from refining.

I am truely at a loss as to where all the money went (but I must admit that my shop is well stocked).

I drive a 92 Toyota Camry thats been wrecked 4 times in 18 months 279,000 miles - none of the wrecks were my fault.

I haven't bought anything nice for myself in years (except for a $300 flat screen TV for my shop).

Finding the metal and refining it was a load of fun, but paying the tax man is going to be no fun at all.

When I showed my wife the statement it made her sick and she went to bed!

Any tax tips would be greatly appreciated.

Maybe this year I will save some metal back and not turn it all into cash as fast as I can like I did last year.

I may sound like I am complaining - but I am not - we have a good life and we work when we want and sleep in when we want.

To answer the question, "has anyone actually made a profit?" - well, yes. But don't forget about the taxes that have to be paid!

kadriver


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## nickvc (Apr 4, 2012)

Make sure you put all the bills for equipment and chemicals in the accounts and see if there is anything else you can claim for, petrol for example or car or laboratory insurance, clothing and any costs associated without the business. Advice from an accountant would be a good place to find out what's allowable, even the tax office can be very helpful and can point you to the right sections of the rules on what's deductible. If your working from home are a portion of the utility bills viewed as allowable deductions, just ask the questions if you don't and just pay the taxes you might not be able to put in a claim later. Stock, gold and silver , can be taxable assets whereas a car for the business may be deductible. Basically get advice,if you can but a new car and offset the cost against your tax liability well there's a win win situation for you. Rules for taxation vary in every country so what may apply in one may not in another but usually all expenses come off the profits and the type of business, sole trader, partnership or registered company can also have different rules, that's why I suggested an accountant, if they are good their cost should easily be outweighed by the savings on your tax bill.


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## goldenchild (Apr 4, 2012)

kadriver said:


> I am going to have to sell some gold I did not expect to, just to pay the taxes on the profit we made from refining.kadriver



Don't get me started with this. I see this as theft. :x


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## kadriver (Apr 5, 2012)

goldenchild said:


> kadriver said:
> 
> 
> > I am going to have to sell some gold I did not expect to, just to pay the taxes on the profit we made from refining.
> ...



Mario:

Hows it going? I see it a little differently.

I figure that the taxes I owe and pay are like dues, dues paid to live in the richest country on the planet.

There is plenty wrong with this country, but I can't think of anywhere else in the world that I would rather live - America.

I went to my tax professional today and found out that I was way off on what my tax bill was going to be.

I use a paid tax professional to prepare my tax returns - always have. The tax code is so complicated that there is no way I could keep up with all the changes.

He charges $315 to do an LLC business tax return.

I only owe about 1/4 of what I thought I was going to have to pay - I am very thankful and relieved.

Combined with all my federal tax withholdings, all I will have to sell is a little over two ounces of gold to cover my tax bill for 2011.

Also, my tax pro gave me a great tip: I own a rental property and I use it for my refining business. I can lease the rental property to my business and have my business pay me rent.

This will produce a rental expense to my business, and rental income to me.

I must have a noterized lease with rent at current market levels. And I will write a rent check from the business to me - quarterly. 

The advantage is this: it looks like a wash and total waste of time to set it up. The rent paid by my business is an expense to my business and it will be deductable from the refining income. The rental income I receive (from my business) will be taxable, but at a much lower rate and NOT subject to self-employment tax!

All my income from the refining business is subject to self-employment tax, but the rental income is not.

This tax tip is legal and encouraged - for now.

The savings on my tax bill for 2012 should just about cover the fee my tax professional charges to do my returns.

kadriver


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## kadriver (Apr 5, 2012)

nickvc said:


> if you can buy a new car and offset the cost against your tax liability well there's a win win situation for you.



nickvc:

Thank you for that input. But I don't quite understand the part about offsetting the cost of a new car against my tax liability. 

My car looks terrible and the thought of buying a new one is repulsive to me. People stare at it all the time. The front and back are both banged up from wrecks - made $11,000.00 in 18 months from insurance settlements.

I bought it brand new in September 1991. Its like one of the family. It still rides smooth and blows cold air. Plus I don't have to worry about people scratching the paint.

Last but not least - its good for my humilty.

kadriver


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## nickvc (Apr 5, 2012)

Kevin here in the UK depending on how you trade a car can be a business expense so can be offset against tax and I always believed in spending it rather than give it to the taxman for nothing :lol: 
If you have a company provide a car it is treated as part of your income and so taxable :shock: 
As I said rules vary from country to country but it's always worth asking what is allowable and what isn't, the avoidance of tax is legal evasion isn't so just claim what's legal,to me it was never worth the worry, like a bent accountant they never pay in the long run.


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## kadriver (Apr 5, 2012)

Interesting idea - buy a car for the business and use the expenses as deductions. plus depreciate the value over the years in use.

We just bought a new car for my wife. She uses it for the business nearly 100 percent of the time. However - we do deduct for the miles used for business purposes so I believe this would negate the company car deduction mentioned above

I will ask my tax advisor about all this - thank you!

kadriver


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## gold4mike (Apr 6, 2012)

You have the option of using "actual expenses" or "standard mileage" deduction. If using actual expenses you must keep ALL receipts for payments, repairs, insurance, fuel, tolls. If using standard mileage you need to keep a clipboard in the vehicle and record every business related mile.


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## RGJohn (Apr 9, 2012)

kadriver said:


> .....
> 
> 
> Any tax tips would be greatly appreciated.
> ...



Pay it. It burns like perdition but pay it and live with a conscience as pure as your gold.
Triple nine plus never worries about a knock on the door from anybody.


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## patnor1011 (Apr 9, 2012)

So you refined some gold and keep it as bullion. Is it considered as your taxable income even that you did not sold it for real money?
Or your tax comes from refined and sold gold?


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## Lou (Apr 9, 2012)

You are only taxed on it when you go to sell it so far as I know.


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## Smack (Apr 10, 2012)

That's right Lou, it should be considered inventory and the accountant should know that. If you purchase inventory (Gold), you don't pay taxes on it until you sell it minus your expenses. Kadriver, what you are paying for professional services for an accountant seems quite expensive. You should have minimal forms to file, my LLC's are $170.00 each and one is about 6 or 7 forms. You should shop around. 

As for deductions, if you are driving your vehicle for business and personal, you need to use a log book. If you get audited they will want to see it and if you don't have one you will have the burden of proof as to where and when you drove and for what. It's easier to have separate vehicles for both but I understand that a money situation can make you do what you feel you need. You should be able to get a log book from staples. Are you claiming your property taxes? Percentage of internet, phone, repairs on car, home or shop? Everything you spend money on that involves your business is a deduction. You print out a list of garage sales to go to? The paper, ink, cost of the printer and electricity are all deductible. I do my best to keep everything for my businesses separate, less headache for me. Oh, one other thing, you cut the grass at your shop? DEDUCTION! And don't forget to claim the $315 from the accountant on next years taxes.

Just don't get started on payroll liabilities... :evil: 

Very many members think the Federal Reserve is run by, or a branch of the Government? It's not...it's a private bank owned by it's shareholders.

If I think of some more tips I will post, can't remember everything.

Thought of something, all my major purchases like a truck, a tool that costs $1,100.00 or more or property, (like my shop) gets depreciated over a period of time. I usually go 5yrs on small stuff, 7 or more on the larger stuff.


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## kadriver (Apr 11, 2012)

Great info smack - thank you.

Taxes deductions and refining precious metals are similar in this respect;

every little bit counts.

kadriver


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## kadriver (Apr 11, 2012)

RGJohn said:


> kadriver said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...



Absonaturalutely! I agree 100 percent. Even if i do get a knock on the door, I can answer it with confidence.

kadriver


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## alzer24k (Jun 27, 2012)

I started acouple of years ago, after taking a bath in Africa trying to mine gold there !!!!!!, then my Geologist sent me a video about recycling old computers, it was very interesting ,so I started going around (I know a lot of people) collecting old electronics then it became a full blown recycling business of all kinds of metal.
Let me put it this way, with two PHD's I did not earn what I earn from scrap metals , not counting all the Ceramic chips, mother boards,memory sticks ETC ....., that I have not even bgun to process.


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## necromancer (Jun 28, 2012)

I am just one guy collecting and buying/selling scrap electronics i dont have two PHD's just a grade 7 edu. LOL

but i make money, i do not refine my own scrap that is done by a member here named "glondor"
he makes my scrap turn into nice shinny gold (Wooo Hooo)

even if its a hobby for you, you just cant beat a hobby that pays for itself


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## AndyWilliams (Nov 5, 2012)

Kadriver, 

I have had my own business since '06 and have used the mileage allowance from the beginning. I bought a 2003 Cadillac Deville for $18k that year. When I bought it, it had 60k miles, today it has 190k. Every one of those miles has gone against my tax bill, saving me, at this point, somewhere around the $18k I paid for the car. And I still get to keep taking that deduction every year. Long story short. You don't need to buy a new car, but if your company (you) wants to buy you a new car, it's a great way to create expenses and enjoy the money you might otherwise send to Uncle Sam. On the other hand, your old car is also an expense that you should be using against your tax bill. Take all that mileage from driving around and scrapping. Great part? You don't need a payment to get the mileage deduction. And be sure to claim a part of your residence as a home office. I'm sure you have a part of your place dedicated to this endeavour, we all do. I write off a portion of my rent, my cable, my electric, my internet, and my cell phone each tax year. Meals out? Especially when you're grabbing a bite because you've been driving all day, grabbing scrap, and you're hungry! Business cards, entertainment (not so much in the scrapping business, I'm sure!), and virtually any dollar you spend should be looked at for a deduction. I'm not saying to be dishonest, merely see if there is some business purpose behind the expense. I do entertain clients, I do drive to other counties to work, I do eat out when necessary. And as small business owners, I would classify most of you into that classification, even benefits from your company should be considered.

And lastly, make sure that your accountant is willing to get you every deduction you deserve. There are some who play it so safe, you almost hope you get audited so the IRS gives you the deductions themself. (True story, it happened to me, and I changed accountants.)


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