# silver nitrate



## clint s (Aug 10, 2011)

hello all i have been playing around with a silver cell i made and been doing ok, nice size crystals i think ,for my first one ,i would keep the volts around 1.5 to 3 volts the trick is to keep the current way down what a would do is turn the current up to 4.6 then soon as i had a good start on crystals i would turn it down to .90 but i have a question for you experts 

for my silver nitrate solution theoretically 

for a 900 ml cell i would need 

90 ml 70 % nitric 810 ml h20 76.92308 grams of pure silver and that would make my solution saturated . is this the best to start out with ?

first i would start with 90mL nitric then ad 90 mL h2o then add pure silver 76.92308 grams once the ag is all digested then dilute with 720 ml h20 does this make a 10% solution or should i use a 12% solution ? would that be better


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## philddreamer (Aug 10, 2011)

Hi Clint!
Yesterday I did my first batch using Lazersteve's silver video as a guide. I had 4 oz of cemented silver. I added 200ml of distilled water, nitric in increment until the silver was all digested. Let it cool, filtered, then added 800ml more water.
Connected a phone charger 5v DC/2amps. In less than 24 hours I had 4oz of nice firm silver crystals. It's beautiful! 

Phil


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## clint s (Aug 10, 2011)

cool they look just like mine do ,it is so neat how that works ,what did you use for a anode ? was it 4 ounces how big was your cathode


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## philddreamer (Aug 10, 2011)

My anode was a 5 oz bar, product of ag chloride process. I was comfortable with the chloride process which I used for recovering my silver from the gold inquart, but been asked to refine some silver, I read more detail ways, & cemented my silver from my last recovery. Much faster than the lye/sugar...
Then gave the cell a shot since I'd bought Steve's video some months ago.
Also read some other points given by a number of expert members & wallah!
Tha cathode, a 2"x3"x3/8th hard graphite that I also bought from Lazersteve. I have about 1 oz left from the anode. I decided to stop @ this point so I could improve on the basket, hanger, filter & so on. I just put something together just to try the cell. 
Now is time to get serious. :mrgreen:


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## clint s (Aug 11, 2011)

nice I have some material i just couldn't get to cement out with copper very good so i have been doing the Ag chloride and converting it with sulfuric and iron works good for me takes a day or to but makes pretty pure silver there wasn't anything in my anode bag at all, i have been using Muslim cloth and stainless locking type medical i cant think of the name of them it is right on the tip of my tongue but anyway they clamp on to my anode bar and works nice i had a hard time trying to solder something on it, so i dug up cant think of the name of them they clap down on it good il send some pics soon, does the graphite work good for cathode? i have that laying around all over i fly rc copters and they have graphite parts and blades i will try it cuz my cathode was a piece of silver and the crystals would stick to it pretty good well i got to get to bed nice talking to you talk to you tomorow some time 

Clint


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## philddreamer (Aug 11, 2011)

I had a bit of trouble the first time I tried cementing a year ago, I don't think I was following the proper steps, maybe too concentrated solution or other base metals present, I don't know for sure. So, I was discouraged & continued using the ag/cl method. This second time, it cemented with no problems. I did add water, this time, to compensate for evaporation & make sure it wasn't too concentrated & it worked. :shock: 
Graphite works good for me. Its what Lazersteve uses. I don't see it braking apart, yet... after harvesting the crystal from the first run, washing it, there was no residue or signs of breaking down.
For the anode, I drilled a small hole & screwed on a small "hooked screw". I'm buying some SS ones. 

Phil


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## Harold_V (Aug 11, 2011)

A piece of 304 or 316 or 316S stainless can be used as the cathode. It's not uncommon for the entire cell to be built from such material, so all of it becomes the cathode. I would highly recommend that cells larger than small experimental sized be so built, to avoid breakage. It's not safe to work from glass vessels when handling large sized pieces of metal. 

Harold


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## rewalston (Aug 11, 2011)

clint s said:


> ...stainless locking type medical i cant think of the name of them it is right on the tip of my tongue ...
> Clint


 not talking about hemostats are you? They look like a cross between needle nose pliers and tweezers but lock.

Rusty


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## clint s (Aug 11, 2011)

ya hemostats , they work good for holding my anode, nice silver cell Harold what type of clamp is that you have on your anode is that hole thing a silver cell 

hey got a question i bought some silver from this guy and he said it was industrial silver it looked little bits of wire half inch long 3/32 thick i digested 173 grams last night with 70%nitric and h2o let it sit all night the next morning , it was clear as water and not a speck of sediment in bottom ,i mean crystal clear am i safe to say it is .9999 fine i should of saved it for my next batch of electrolyte for my silver cell but i am cemeting it with copper right now i am curious to see what the weight is when i am done ,i hope it is as pure as it was i probably could of melted it down with no processing ?


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## Harold_V (Aug 12, 2011)

clint s said:


> ya hemostats , they work good for holding my anode, nice silver cell Harold what type of clamp is that you have on your anode


It's important that nothing conductive but silver makes contact with the electrolyte---even stainless will digest if it's part of the anode system. It's perfectly acceptable as the cathode, however. 

I made a "candlestick" that connects to the anode. The candlestick is just a short, fat section of silver, roughly about 1" in diameter, that has a small diameter stub, also of silver, cast integral with the 1" section. The clip attaches to the small diameter, then the large diameter is simply placed on top of the anode, which is in contact with the electrolyte only at the bottom. 



> is that hole thing a silver cell


Yes, it is. Crystals grew primarily under the anode, which sits flat in the basket. They needed to be knocked down every few hours, to prevent bridging to the anode and shorting the cell. It was important that the cell grew heavy crystals, which wasn't a problem unless too much copper accumulated in the cell, at which time it grew long, thin threads. Electrolyte was changed when that occurred. The cell was cleaned out only when the electrolyte was changed. Crystals that were scraped down were pushed to the right hand side (the sloped area) where they were out of the way. I'd harvest about 200 ounces when I'd clean out the cell. It's been a long time (last ran the cell in '94), so I'm not sure if I did that every second day, or every third day. The anode was lifted occasionally, so slimes could be harvested. 

The square item with "wings" was the template for cutting filters. They were sown by my wife after cutting. Polypropylene clips hold the filter in place in the basket. 



> hey got a question i bought some silver from this guy and he said it was industrial silver it looked little bits of wire half inch long 3/32 thick i digested 173 grams last night with 70%nitric and h2o let it sit all night the next morning , it was clear as water and not a speck of sediment in bottom ,i mean crystal clear am i safe to say it is .9999 fine i should of saved it for my next batch of electrolyte for my silver cell but i am cemeting it with copper right now i am curious to see what the weight is when i am done ,i hope it is as pure as it was i probably could of melted it down with no processing ?


Yes, from all indications, it was pure silver. If alloyed, you'd have found some coloration. The only exception I can think of is if the silver was alloyed with cadmium. If your recovered weight is very close to the staring weight, you'll know for the next time that it's pure. Mean time, any of this is good experience. You learn by doing. 

Harold


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## clint s (Aug 12, 2011)

thanks Harold good to know about the anode ,i will not do that anymore , what does it mean when you get a black carbon looking stuff in your anode bag it was before i used the hemostat to hold it ,and i noticed it on the anode it self, is it from bad connection my anode was from silver that i cemented with copper and melted in to anode bar with my torch.

also i notice that once my crystals was close to the anode they grew bigger i was keeping about a 4inch spacing from cathode ,and my cathode was a 1inch by 1 inch piece of silver sheet 3/32 thick and i hot glued the stem to seal all but the 1x1 part, seem to work good except the crystals would grow on the cathode and were hard to get off


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## Harold_V (Aug 13, 2011)

clint s said:


> what does it mean when you get a black carbon looking stuff in your anode bag it was before i used the hemostat to hold it ,and i noticed it on the anode it self, is it from bad connection my anode was from silver that i cemented with copper and melted in to anode bar with my torch.


That's the slimes I spoke of. You'll come to understand it's primarily miniscule particles of silver, but if there's any values included in the anode (gold, platinum, palladium), they manifest themselves as the black slime, too. Only way you can know for sure is to take a sample, dissolve it in dilute nitric. If you have silver only, it will all dissolve. If you have palladium present, it will form a brown solution. Test with stannous chloride or DMG. If you find that substances do not dissolve, they may be gold or platinum. Isolate the solids, rinse to remove traces of silver nitrate, then dissolve with a drop of nitric and several drops of HCl. Test with stannous chloride. 

Because all of my silver experiences came from the cell I showed, I can't speak about anode/cathode spacing. What I had worked well enough, and operated under 4 volts. I expect that voltage is a factor in anode/cathode spacing, so what worked for me may not work for you. 

Know that operating the cell without some copper makes for a very hard and fast deposit of silver. I always started my cell with pure silver, and even had a film of silver deposit occasionally. As the copper content rose, the deposit softened, so the crystals harvested much easier. The negative of starting with copper is you get less useful life from the electrolyte. You'll have to balance what you feel is right for you. There is no right or wrong. I preferred the greater production, especially when I had several thousand ounces of silver staring me in the face. I already mentioned that my production was quite low. 

Harold


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## Geo (Aug 13, 2011)

will the silver crystals bind to the stainless or can they be scraped off. i was of the understanding from my limited knowledge that unless you use fine silver as the cathode you will get contaminated silver.


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## Harold_V (Aug 14, 2011)

Geo said:


> will the silver crystals bind to the stainless or can they be scraped off. i was of the understanding from my limited knowledge that unless you use fine silver as the cathode you will get contaminated silver.


Because nitric doesn't dissolve (300 series) stainless, it can be used with absolutely no problems. Remember, 300 stainless alloys are the metal of choice for packaging nitric. 

Having said that, I don't recommend one use a metallic scraper when removing crystals. I used one I made from green fiber glass board, which was attached to a stainless rod with a stainless screw. Worked well enough, even when the crystals were fairly rigidly attached. To remove crystals from the cell, I used, of all things, a kitty litter scoop. Seems to be a good fit for the job at hand. Holds the crystals well, while allowing electrolyte to drain readily. 

I've talked about crystals and how well they anchor. If you use pure silver nitrate (no copper) they tend to fasten quite well, but they do release. Only if you achieve a solid film of silver does it become troublesome, and even that will release with a little effort. As copper content rises in the electrolyte (the result of processing silver recovered with copper), the crystals will be attached much more loosely. They knock down easily.

If you choose to use stainless for the cathode, I highly recommend it be taken to a plating shop and be electropolished. 

Harold


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## clint s (Aug 14, 2011)

not sure on that Geo that would be a question for Harold i haven't used the stainless cathode yet i am gonna try it on my next batch i got a question when you are washing silver chloride it says to wash in boiling water to get rid of lead if there is lead what does it look like can you see it as it dissolves in the hot water ? also where is the best place to buy a mold for pouring the silver in to like a 6 cavity 1 ounce mold for a low price that i can afford.


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## Harold_V (Aug 14, 2011)

clint s said:


> when you are washing silver chloride it says to wash in boiling water to get rid of lead if there is lead what does it look like can you see it as it dissolves in the hot water ?


It isn't visible. Evidence that it has been removed can be seen by allowing the solution to cool, at which time it precipitates as white powder. Therefore, if you wash your silver chloride with hot water, it's important that you decant quickly. To the good, silver chloride washed in hot water tends to settle rapidly. 



> also where is the best place to buy a mold for pouring the silver in to like a 6 cavity 1 ounce mold for a low price that i can afford.


Not likely to be found. I would also suggest to you that if you hope to pour small ingots, you pour them by melting each individually (one mold cavity will be enough. They cool rapidly). Once you start pouring molten metals, they don't control all that well. Sort of like drinking from a spittoon. 

Lose the idea that you can cast perfect sized ingots. Even if you pre-weigh the metal before melting, there's no guarantee it will all pour to the mold. The only sure fire way to make dead on weight ingots is to pour then over, then adjust their weight, or, if you're fortunate enough to have a controlled atmosphere furnace, you may have success melting in graphite molds, with pre-weighed silver. Alternately, you can roll material (gold or silver) to a prescribed thickness, then punch planchets. If they are to be die struck afterwards, you can even adjust their weight slightly, if necessary. With enough tonnage, the metal will fully fill the die. 

Harold


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## clint s (Aug 14, 2011)

thanks , Harold for all your help ,i bought hokes book also another book called small scale of refining of jewelers wastes by Roland Loewe i have read them over and over and also read all the threads on this forum over and over to try and get all the knowledge i can, but it always seems i have some kind of questions 

i have took the black slimes from my cell it was black as i stated and had some particals of shiny silver looking stuff in it, i rinsed it good several times then to see if it was silver i put it in diluted nitric 50/50 and nothing digested that i can see, it also look like the shiny silver particles are still there as well ,i just decanted the clear solution and diluted it with h2o and put a little hci in it, it did turn milky white no cottage chezz but milky white so there was a little silver in it i am sure ,but still there was little specks of shiny material left 
would platinum plate out of thee anode shiny if it was mixed with my anode bar , my scrap was mostly.925 and 
and this metallic replacement material i have been working hypo solution that was ran through a metallic ion replacement cartridge of a bucket with steel wool that was done some 25 years back it was dry like dirt and i just dump it in 50/50 nitric then let sit for a couple days then filter and add hci instant agci then convert that with sulfuric and iron i also do several washes with hot boiling water then melted them into anodes, i did try to cement with copper but it did not work that great it was putin off this black color while it was cementing and if i let it sit long it would turn a rust looking stuff in my beaker so i went to the agci methode works alot better for that material, the 925 stuff cements out nice with copper i did have the sluge asayed and it was iron and colbalt and silver 40 % very little zinc, mostly iron and silver


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## Harold_V (Aug 15, 2011)

The mention that you processed some 925 leads me to believe that some of the silver you processed was plated with rhodium, which is not all that uncommon. That would account for the particles you mentioned that remained un-dissolved, and were shiny.

There's no shortage of "silver" items that are not silver. That you found iron in your solution may be attributed to having processed a chain that wasn't silver. Check such things with a magnet. If it's magnetic, it isn't silver. 

Harold


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## Graphitesupplies (Sep 10, 2011)

clint s said:


> not sure on that Geo that would be a question for Harold i haven't used the stainless cathode yet i am gonna try it on my next batch i got a question when you are washing silver chloride it says to wash in boiling water to get rid of lead if there is lead what does it look like can you see it as it dissolves in the hot water ? also where is the best place to buy a mold for pouring the silver in to like a 6 cavity 1 ounce mold for a low price that i can afford.




6 cavity 1 oz graphite ingot molds for silver: http://www.graphitesupplies.com/servlet/Categories They will even engrave them!


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