# hi :) again



## giannitsa (Nov 15, 2012)

hi to all from greece. 
first the safety...
i start to play with AP . i take 1.5 kilos of pins(i pull them for 1 month) and i put 2HCL 1H2O2 and i make 2-3 times and all dissolve ok and i put inside iron to finish. i see white power(silver), the gold, and other powder.

if i put caustick soda in the solution then the solution make chocolate color(lead-tin ??).

i take the gold from the solution(today i make stanus to chek) with the iron?? ( i dont now) and after all the gold (flakes+precipitate powder (from iron) with silver lead tin ect) i put them in hcl-cl to take back the gold+SMB. ok for now????

now for the silver if i put alluminium foil i take the silver out from solution????? and after that if i put lye(caustic soda) and then i melt all what metal is that???

i try to reading all day but i must try to hard to now what says the book. i hope to undestend what i wand to say

now i have 4 jar 2l with solution (to much i put hcl --- i a new )
i have 2 jar with dark brawn/yellow 1 jar blue sky color(copper chloride) and 1 jar the half is brown the other half its dark blue.

i play a lot. i put iron and the next day i put lye and the solusion going brown color( i thin its copper oxide or copper anydrus)???? and its like syrup but when i put the solution from 1 jar with blu sky color then change the solution and when i put hlc the syrup going to clear and the copper going down with gold.
i have on solution the color is red/purple.

i now this is not the way but i play to learn.

i take fotos and i put hear. ........... nikos from giannitsa


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## eeTHr (Nov 15, 2012)

nikos---

While experimenting can aid in understanding, for a beginner in recovery and refining it can be very dangerous.

The processes listed by the professionals and advanced hobbiests on this board are generally designed to be within the boundries of safety, _*when all of the applicable safety precautions are followed*_. You need to know what precautions apply to each process, then follow that process.

Straying outside of these boundaries can easily result in anything from large scale property damage to death of yourself and those around you, with many possible severe injuries in between. Those experienced in these processes may sometimes speak about them casually, but that, by no means, is meant to infer that due dilligence is not required by those just beginning to learn the art.

Please read the links below before you do some small thing which turns out to be way wrong.


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## maynman1751 (Nov 15, 2012)

I have to agree with eeTHr. You are going about this ALL WRONG! Seal all of your solutions and read and study the forum. From your explanation of what you have done, you do not have a proper understanding of these processes. I'm sure others will chime in and support our responses to you. Take your time, study and be safe. You are dealing with some very dangerous chemical combinations.


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## Geo (Nov 15, 2012)

im not the smartest person on the forum by any stretch but i can follow a simple process but for the life of me, i cant follow along with what your describing. it sounds like you are randomly adding metals and chemicals with no rhyme or reason. the only thing im sure of is that you have taken a months worth of work and 3 pounds of pins and made a complete mess out of it. i cant begin to try and tell you where you went wrong or how to fix it. you really should follow instructions until you know how to do the process before you start experimenting.


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## Pantherlikher (Nov 15, 2012)

Geo said:


> im not the smartest person on the forum by any stretch but i can follow a simple process but for the life of me, i cant follow along with what your describing. it sounds like you are randomly adding metals and chemicals with no rhyme or reason. the only thing im sure of is that you have taken a months worth of work and 3 pounds of pins and made a complete mess out of it. i cant begin to try and tell you where you went wrong or how to fix it. you really should follow instructions until you know how to do the process before you start experimenting.



Seems Language translation is the biggest issue here. English into Greek might not translate well with a computer. 
1. Translate the book so you understand everything you are doing.
2. Retranslate and read again to make sure you understand.


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## butcher (Nov 15, 2012)

giannitsa,

Using iron to cement out metals as powders from your acid solution, or from your used HCl/H2O2 solution will precipitate all the metals below iron.

Google the reactivity series of metals.

Caustic soda will neutralize solution and form salt water, most metals will precipitate as hydroxides and oxides including iron.

You should try and recover the gold before using the steps above using clean copper metal will cement valuable metals, but not all of the base metals.

Google the reactivity series of metals.

I think you may be asking about converting silver chloride to silver powders, the aluminum and dilute HCl can be used, but I would not use aluminum foil, a thick piece of aluminum (not pot metal).

Work on understanding Hokes Book, maybe finding someone who can help you with translation of the book. 
It also seems you working with HCl/H2O2, that wil be on forum, video can help Laser Steves web site see also copper chloride document there.

If you ask one question at a time, (without other talk), it may be easier to answer,

Hope this helps


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## giannitsa (Nov 16, 2012)

thank you all. thanks to butcher. i post photo. remeber about me.... safety first. THANK YOU ALL. :mrgreen:


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## giannitsa (Nov 16, 2012)

butcher said:


> giannitsa,
> 
> Using iron to cement out metals as powders from your acid solution, or from your used HCl/H2O2 solution will precipitate all the metals below iron.   OK.can i stop to use H2O2 and i start use HCl in the old solution. and add the blue/green color i think is copper chloride 1 . (my old solution i thing is copper chloride 2) and i put air . This makes my solution new????? to start again
> Google the reactivity series of metals.
> ...





thank you my frends. i come with photos... :mrgreen:


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## butcher (Nov 16, 2012)

giannitsa,
Only ask one question at a time (it will be easier for us both).
(We have too much language problems)

First question:

I think you are asking about copper II chloride leach (HCl/H2O2) (acid peroxide leach).

It is best to use this leach for material with only thin copper and gold, like gold fingers (gold foil at edge of circuit board), or other materials of gold plated and copper like pins (take much longer), parts of best gold removed from other scrap or junk on circuit board.
Whole circuit board would cause much trouble and make you lose gold, and make big mess.

Do not use too strong H2O2 (will dissolve gold).
Use 3% H2O2, or use air bubbled in to create oxygen in solution.

If solution is very dark green to brown needs oxygen, to make bright green.
If white copper I chloride powder in bottom need more HCl.
(White powder can also be lead or other base metals if involved).

Bright light green no copper salts solution good.

Do not add other metals use leach for only copper and gold material.
Other metal push copper from solution, if Iron solution becomes Iron chloride (not copper chloride) iron makes copper powders form.

Lead and tin (solder):
Remove from part before leach (HCl alone).
Lead makes white powder insoluble lead chloride (lead chloride little soluble in boiling hot water, will precipitate out of water when cooled).
Tin barely dissolves in acid, makes problem filtering, (if gold dissolves with tin, tin will steal your gold from you, colloids).

If gold dissolves in solution keep using (copper will make gold precipitate out of solution as black powder).

Copper II chloride leach (acid peroxide) (HCl/H2O2), can be reused over and over if you keep it healthy (no other metal like iron, aluminum, tin), and add air and acid as needed.

When done with solution, and do not wish to reuse, or contaminated with other metals:
Add copper metal to cement (precipitate) dissolved gold as black powder (if gold in solution).
Remove black powder and save (gold).
White powder can be removed from gold with several processes,(incineration can help if tin is involved), clues to forming a process are written here in this post.

Use iron to cement (precipitate copper metal powders).
Decant copper dry.

Use NaOH to precipitate other metal as hydroxide powders dry powders sludge, clear salt water is safe for sewer system.

Aluminum makes gelatin, I would not use, too hard to dry sludge.


White powders what are the and how to get gold foil from them:
White powders:

Copper I chloride (CuCl), HCl will dissolve to green solution of copper II chloride (CuCl2).
(Hcl will not dissolve silver chloride AgCl,or PbCl2 lead chloride).

Salt NaCl cold water will dissolve.
(Cold water will not dissolve silver chloride AgCl, or lead chloride PbCl2).

Lead chloride boiling hot water will dissolve (when water cool will precipitate again).
(Silver chloride will not dissolve in boiling water).
(But silver chloride very fluffy (floats around) and takes time to settle to bottom of container).
(If separating lead and silver chloride keep solution hot, let silver settle, decant hot lead clear solution to another jar let cool).

Silver chloride can be improved by making it into an ammine and acidifying (details can be dangerous so I will not explain here.

Silver chloride needs to be made (converted) into silver metal powders before melting.
Methods to convert silver chloride to silver metal powders:
NaOH (lye) and Karo syrup method.
Or
Iron very dilute sulfuric acid method.
Or
Aluminum and dilute HCl method.


Second question:
if made into Hydroxide (with NaOH) most of metals most of these would not dissolve in hot or cold water),
Some will dissolve in some acids, if you have all of these metals in hydroxide or acids you have one big mess, very hard to deal with.

You need to learn to separate material mechanically and treat it with proper method for the type of material you are working with, before trying to remove gold

Hoke's book can help you understand this.

Recover gold from copper II chloride leach has been explained above (using SMB would not be a good method).

Laser Steve's document and web site can help you understand the copper Chloride leach.

You need to stop using acids and losing your gold, Until you understand this more, do not throw away your gold from not knowing how to do this. 

Study the forum, Hokes, and Steve’s site, get knowledge-then get gold.

Study dealing with waste, (found in the safety section), this will also give answer's to many of your second question, as well as keep you and other safe.

No study + bad procedure = No Gold
Study + proper procedure = Gold in your pocket.
Hope this helps our friend in Greece.


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## giannitsa (Nov 17, 2012)

I ask you all a big apology for the inconvenience. I use the translation Google. I hope to be more katanoitos.Apo English to Greek translation is very .......... psychedelic haha.

This is basically a test with a translator for most good translation and understood. write and God Vali his hand.

I think the gray powder is silver. Or is precipitate solder and strainer does not pass this dust and clog the filter coffee and its not gray color its gray/black. To get the gold if you throw HCL / CL for 5-7 minutes it will melt the gold will only start to melt first base metals;

Today I will try to boil plain water to melt solder and filter with filter coffee. I think what will wrath is copper and gold but not with much interest now.

to divide the gold to silver to use HCL / CL OR HCL / SODIOM NITRATE (maybe it remained explosive mixture;; and shoot with SMB gold. this sodium nitrate is soda for food ???

All this is in about until I learned to do the job properly.
I like to experiment but always without knowing anything at first. and because I'm messy and impatient so I always do at the beginning. 

many failures to come up after the success of the open road.

Now would be late to rewrite this forum because here in my cold starts to make meaning mountain wood for heat for some time that free will exists.


thank you all. Nikos from greece..


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## giannitsa (Nov 17, 2012)

this photo is from my work . the sky is blue. i like it....  and thank you butcher for your help. you save me time......


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## butcher (Nov 17, 2012)

Nikos from greece,
I copied and pasted this line, but if you used the translator to write it, the test may not work as it may just translate it back:

“This is basically a test with a translator for most good translation and understood. write and God Vali his hand.”

This is a test to see if the translator, can translate well, and is more understandable, for this test I will write the word God vali his hand, I do not know what the word vali means in English.

“I think the gray powder is silver. Or is precipitate solder and strainer does not pass this dust and clog the filter coffee and its not gray color its gray/black. To get the gold if you throw HCL / CL for 5-7 minutes it will melt the gold will only start to melt first base metals;”

Tin will steal your gold from you if gold is dissolved with tin, tin must be removed before dissolving gold.

Tin will give trouble filtering (dry powders and incinerate powder red hot (cook red hot but do not melt), boil in HCl, decant liquid from powder, boil in H2O decant (remove liquid from powder), this will remove tin and many base metals leaving mostly silver and gold in powders, proceed with process.

“Today I will try to boil plain water to melt solder and filter with filter coffee. I think what will wrath is copper and gold but not with much interest now.”

The first picture is copper metal cemented by other base metals; there may be a little value in copper powder (incinerate copper powder, save to use in later process).


“to divide the gold to silver to use HCL / CL OR HCL / SODIOM NITRATE (maybe it remained explosive mixture;; and shoot with SMB gold. this sodium nitrate is soda for food ???”

HCl/Cl is easier to work with. (after gold is dissolved use heat to remove chlorine gas from solution, before using SMB or ferrous sulfate, to precipitate your gold from solution.

HCl/NaNO3 sodium nitrate makes poor mans aqua regia, (not explosive), it is harder to work with, this will dissolve gold, but also makes nitric acid in solution that will need to be removed before gold can be precipitated.

We shoot animals with a gun for food.

SMB sodium metabisulfite (notice ite in end of word) is used to precipitate gold from gold chloride solutions.

“Now would be late to rewrite this forum because here in my cold starts to make meaning mountain wood for heat for some time that free will exists.”

Get lots of wood for winter to keep warm.

“All this is in about until I learned to do the job properly.
I like to experiment but always without knowing anything at first. And because I'm messy and impatient so I always do at the beginning.” ”

"many failures to come up after the success of the open road.” 

Experiment with what you learn from Hokes book (getting acquainted experiments in book), this will teach you more than making mess and trying to fix the problem.

Learn patience, takes less time, than spending time cleaning up a mess.


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