# Rough Draft "Fume Box"



## toadiesop (Jun 1, 2007)

What do you guys think of this for a SMALL TIME fume scrubber? I'm sure it's been discussed before but again, the info is all scattered in random threads. So here we go.... 

Basically an air tight box of some kind (I don't think totes are airtight "enough") but I'm sure there's something out there that's PERFECT, I just haven't thought of it yet. :lol: 

So the basic idea is to place a fan on one side blowing INTO the box. I was thinking 8-12 PC case fans since we all have a _few_ of those laying around but fans are cheap enough to find one with a larger air flow and easier installation.

Your Acid/Peroxide bath goes in the box. No crockpot!! You can use A crockpot but it *WILL NOT* be a good idea to turn it on because of heat build up.

So the cover of the box has a pvc (or whatever) pipe that comes out of the top about 6". On top of the pipe is a acid fume filter like the one shown (about $7 per filter)

Now, something will have to be hand crafted depending on what filter you use to ensure an air tight seal to the pipe. Or maybe if you do your homework you can find a the perfect pipe that your filter will fit snug in. 

And the pipe will have to be "siliconed" to the lid to ensure a seal as well.

Maybe two pipes and two filters for extra measure (or even 4??)

I rock at MS Paint! 8) 







Yes, No, Maybe? Any ideas, modifications, insults? :lol:


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## rainmaker (Jun 1, 2007)

Really nice, simple design. But won't the excess heat from turning on the Crockpot be exhausted with the fumes, thus making turning on the Crockpot a valid option.? I'm going to make one and test the Crockpot, since there are many sizes and heat levels vary. I'll report back.

Thanks,

Rainmaker


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## toadiesop (Jun 1, 2007)

Cool Rainmaker. Take pics of it when it's done. 

I don't have enough $$ to build one right now but when I do in a few weeks, I'm sure I'll have thought of some other improvments too. It's just something I've been kicking around the noggin trying to figure out how to make it easier for me to do acid/peroxide in the middle of a apartment complex.


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## toadiesop (Jun 1, 2007)

Oh yeah, another even simpler idea I had was just one of those gallon glass "iced tea" jugs with a plastic cover on it.....

just take the pvc/filter setup and attach it to the lid.


What I want to know is, how affective to the pros think this will be. Again, I'm going for SAFETY. Will these filter setups affectively cut down on the gases being expelled and how long before you should change the filter?

Is there an "indicator" on some brands of filters that tell you when they are "used up" so to speak?


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## fafrd (Jun 1, 2007)

this might be a stupid question but how are you getting the crockpot in and out of the airtight container?think about 2 big totes plastic with one lid seperating the two on top of one another youcan seal the top one air tight with pvc tubeing pieces in it with a exaust at the top  fan at the bottom being the lid is attached to the top all you would need to do is figure out how to seal the top to the bottom on a temporay note so you can get the crockpot out plus the pieces of pvc tubing in the top should help asorb come of the fumes too just trying to keep the fumes in for the 9 sec rule just an idea if it helps cool if not well i put my 2 cents in lol


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## toadiesop (Jun 1, 2007)

Yes, or no, I'm not sure. Maybe?

My answer is, huh? Yes there will be gas in the box. Open it smartly. Away from people, pets, metal, hold your breath. Shouldn't be too hard.

And..... HUH?????


I know some people here can appreciate this......


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## jimdoc (Jun 1, 2007)

I got a Jules wallet. He is the man.


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## toadiesop (Jun 1, 2007)

8)


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## mike.fortin (Jun 1, 2007)

fafrd said:


> just trying to keep the fumes in for the 9 sec rule



fafrd--please explain the 9 sec rule. Mike.


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## aflacglobal (Jun 3, 2007)

yes please do.


Meow


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 3, 2007)

When I first brought up the 9 second "rule", I qualified this by saying that I wasn't absolutely sure that 9 sec. was the true number. It is what I seem to remember in my foggy memory. I've never seen it in print. If I remember right, a scrubber designer gave me this figure.

This 9 sec. thing has only to do with a conventional scrubber using a dilute sodium hydroxide spray system. I can't see how it would apply using the system that Toadie has in mind. In the conventional scrubber, the fumes undergo neutralization and condensation and they have to remain in the chamber for approx. 9 sec. in order for all the acid fumes to become neutralized. 

Toadie, the simple scrubber you are considering is interesting. The success would be determined by the sealing and the efficiency of the filter. I assume you would be using a standard respirator acid filter. If you're not going to heat the pot, you might consider using a Corning Ware container, with a lid, instead of a crock pot. This way, there wouldn't be any wiring to corrode. I'm not sure you even need a fan, if there are no wires or other metals involved. If the fan were too strong, you may put the fumes through the filter too fast and affect it's efficiency.

I can see this filter arrangement built into the lid of a sealed bucket (or, other plastic sealable container), somehow, with no fan and no inner container. The bucket, itself, would be the solution container. If heating is desired, the bucket could be placed in a hot water bath heated with fish tank heaters.

The efficiency of the filter can be tested by placing a piece of pH paper above the filter.


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## aflacglobal (Jun 3, 2007)

GSP. I was wondering. 

I know we are dealing with small batch's of chemicals here.
So i figure their should not be as many fumes as you would have with a commercial system.

If you were to seal the entire apparatus in an air tight container.
Then allow the force of the chemical reaction to force the vapors thru the
neutralization solution, would this not allow for the highest retention times.

Just guessing here.

Ralph


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## jimdoc (Jun 3, 2007)

On page 42 of Hoke's book there is a fume trap, that is just a larger beaker upside down covering a smaller beaker that the reaction is
taking place in, both sitting in a pan of water. If you used sodium hydroxide, or something else to neutralize better than the plain water,
wouldn't this work on small scale batches? Or at least contain most of the fumes so that the rest would be easier to manage with a filter like discussed here?
Jim


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## shadybear (Jun 4, 2007)

My 1st thought here would be you will probably go through crockpots faster with the fumes all around them.

Then, Why dont you just use a 5 gallon bucket with tight fitting lid.
hook a outlet pipe to the lid and run pipe out the door.
Use the whole 8 foot section for this, set the reaction chamber up higher inside and run the other end in to a bucket with lid outside, put a small hole in this second bucket and you would be able to exhaust outside.
Should handle crockpots heat as well.


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