# Ball Mill abrade or powderize motherboard pins?



## 924T (Jul 4, 2012)

Howdy to the forum! 

I've been a member for a couple of years, and have been reading the excellent Q&A on the forum, and a fair number
of patents, to try to get myself up to speed. Am just now poised to print out Hoke's book (in a large font size so I
can see it properly) to gain a better understanding of the AR process. 

I'm posting for the first time because I need to find out if a ball mill (not one of those plastic rock tumblers) will just
abrade the gold off of motherboard pins, or would it reduce them to a high mesh count powder? 

If a ball mill will reduce the pins to powder, I'd like to run the resulting powder on a Miller table or a wave table to separate
the gold out, and then refine it with Iodine, to keep the use of acids to a minimum.

If it won't, then I'll have to take a look at smelting pins, and the appropriate flux to achieve a low-loss smelt.

Thanks,

Mike


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## glondor (Jul 4, 2012)

I would guess if you ran the mill long enough you would break the metal down. Trouble is I think you would pound your gold into your mill as well as into your balls. I understand the hammer action of the balls will pound the gold loose of the pins due to the gold stretching and popping off but I do not think it would be an effective way to strip pins. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## patnor1011 (Jul 4, 2012)

It will mangle them but not reduce them to powder. Gold will be smeared on everything there. 

You cannot smelt pins. You can melt them but that just make recovery of gold 10 times more complicated and more costly.


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## 924T (Jul 4, 2012)

Many thanks, Glondor and patnor1011, for the fast replies!

I had called Action Mining Co. and asked them whether their hammer mill(s) would grind motherboard pins, and
was told the pins were too soft, and would not work with their mills.

After reading much of Harold's information about ball mills, and then watching that German ball mill video, I was
hoping a ball mill would be a good non-chemical solution (no pun intended) to processing pins.

If it won't work, it won't work, and that's what I needed to find out-----------thanks!

Next on my list of possibilities is investigating whether or not an Iodine (Povidone or KI+I) leach would work with
pins-----------that's probably properly pursued under another heading in the forum, I'd guess.

I've read enough posts, though, to be constantly concerned about what I would call "wildcard" reactions, because I
certainly don't want to be creating any contact explosives or explosive gasses out of ignorance, and I have no idea
how the tin in the slot pins will interact with Iodine!

Thanks again for your rapid replies to my ball mill question (and, patnor, your tutorial on how you pyrolize the flatpack
i.c. chips was simply excellent)!

Mike


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## publius (Jul 4, 2012)

As I understand it, the preferred method is to leach the copper from the center of the pins using the acid [HCl] peroxide [H2O2] method. This leaves just medium to high purity gold foil behind. No real chance of wildcard reactions there!


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## 924T (Jul 4, 2012)

Wow-----Publius, I think I made a terminology error------pins would be the fully plated straight pieces of (copper wire ?) metal
like those from an IDE cable socket on the motherboard, and you're absolutely right, "eating" the copper out of them is the beauty way to go about it (I wonder if Ferric Chloride would work, too?).

What, on the forum, are the gold-tipped metal contacts from inside of ram/pci/isa slots properly called?

Those are what I have been scratching around trying to find a mechanical means of processing them, but it appears
that wet chemistry will probably have to be used.

Thanks,

Mike


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## etack (Jul 4, 2012)

924T said:


> What, on the forum, are the gold-tipped metal contacts from inside of ram/pci/isa slots properly called?



Look up beryllium cooper alloys any pin with spring action wold likely be Be Cu alloy. Early in the forum this was discussed and most people treat them as pins. the have a really low Au/Lb. ratio. Header pins .375 plated with Au 30 micro inches are about $0.012-$0.019 worth of gold apiece. The pins from slots maybe half at best most likely a quarter of a header pin $0.003-up.

gold is gold 9000 to 18000 pins might give you close to 1 gram with time in AP.

good luck

Eric


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 4, 2012)

Mike,

Welcome to the forum! There is so much to learn and it's all available here, but you'll have to put in some effort.

There are many ways to recover gold. They each have their pros and cons, and the best process is often dictated by the material you're processing.

For pins, you can attack the base metal with acids that will dissolve the base metal into solution and leave relatively pure gold foils behind. But the base metal represents the great majority of a pin. An alternate method is to strip the tiny amount of gold from the pin leaving the base metal intact. Each method has its advantages and disadvantages.

The other items you're referring to, known as Card Edge Connectors in the computer world, are known as Fingers here on the forum. Fingers are best processed in the Acid Peroxide process mentioned above, and are considered to be one of the best materials to start with when you're learning to recover and refine gold.

I would encourage you to follow the Guided Tour created by LazerSteve. It will introduce you to the forum and provide a wealth of information on the various processes we use. I would also suggest downloading a copy of C.M. Hoke's book,
Refining Precious Metal Wastes. Her work is probably the best book ever written for an aspiring refiner to learn the basics.

Good luck,
Dave

I just read etack's post and realized you're talking about the sockets the fingers plug into, not the fingers on the edges of the cards. As he mentions, some could be made with beryllium copper. The beryllium is hazardous when released into the air as a dust, as would happen when sanding or scraping them. A visit to the Safety category of the forum is also strongly encouraged.


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## BAMGOLD (Jul 5, 2012)

I just gotta add, that is a very good post Dave!


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## 924T (Jul 10, 2012)

Yes, that is great advice, FrugalRefiner!

As so many I'm sure have done in trying to figure out how to get the gold out/off of computer scrap, without really having any idea of what's involved, I had heard that "there's gold in them thar computers", was eager to extract some. and wasn't really prepared for the reality that it can be hazardous/dangerous, and that it can take multiple processes to "get" the gold from the different types of computer parts.

So, I spent a rediculous amount of time reading posts on the forum, and searching the internet, trying to figure out if
there was a way to keep it simple and use 1 reclaiming process and only 1 refining process------------I was hell bent for
leather to grind everything up will some kind of mill, process it on a wave table, and then refine it with AR.

So, my first post was my last gasp regarding that initiative!

Luckily, I didn't do too much stupid stuff during the 2 years of researching-----------I've got some fingers that have been
sitting in Povidone/H2O for 2 years (I screwed that one up) (that's another story), and I've got some other fingers that
it appears I have successfully removed the foils from with Ferric Chloride (a tip from right here on the forum), because 
the bottom of the jar is covered with bits of yellow foil----------I've got to buy a funnel and filter those out of there.

I started out trimming the fingers off of ram and PCI cards with handheld cutters, but (another forum tip) I went to
using a sheet metal drop-blade cutter, which works like a charm.

For the Ferric Chloride experiment I put 1 lb. of close cut fingers into a Smuckers jar, filled with the Ferric, and then
shook the jar whenever I walked by it (agitation---another forum tip) for about a day.

Unfortunately, it was unscientific in that the fingers were a mixed batch-----some ram, some PCI, some slot 2, some
ISA, etc. But, it will be interesting, nontheless, to weigh those foils after they're filtered, cleaned and dried, to see
how many grams there are of reclaimed, unrefined gold from my first successful experiment.

Up next in a month or so, I'll be taking FrugalRefiner's advice on how to properly pursue getting the base metals
out of a modest quantity of pins---------------in the meantime, I've got to learn to do fire assays (traded a Marshall
JCM-800 4x12 cabinet for an new, unused Shor that has a 1/2" chip off the rim of the ceramic cup/filter, and a Kerr
ElectroTouch II smelting/melting furnace)[at least the Shor graphite cathode can be used for something----should I use
the Shor bucket as a planter, perhaps?]-----------------so I've got a decent furnace; I've got to acquire the rest of the 
hardware necessary for assays.

Doggoned glad the GRF exists! Probably would have blown myself to smithereens if I hadn't seen all the cautionary
warnings/statements in the different topics I've read about in the last 2 years.

Thanks,

Mike


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words guys! I truly appreciate it.

A a newb myself, I can tell you that 99% of what I know about precious metal recovery and refining, I've learned since I discovered this forum six months ago. If you can devote the time, this forum can provide a college level education in these disciplines. But a college education isn't achieved in just a few weeks of study. It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort, but it's all available right here!

Good luck guys!

Dave


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## Freiman (Sep 26, 2012)

Hi

At my very first attempt to recover gold from RAM-sticks I tried to put the (small) glass with the pieces and Poor Man´s AR into an ultrasound-cleaner. I filled the cleaner partly with water and put the glass with acid and RAM-sticks into it and turned it on. It pulverized the gold - but also the PBC, so I got a lot of that stuff mixed in.
But I´ve tried to put a piece of aluminumfoil into the ultrasound-cleaner and it shakes the foil into powder. I think that the proces could be used if you have fine plates of gold so it will dissolve faster in the acid.
But pulverized PBC is a mess!


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## g_axelsson (Sep 26, 2012)

Be careful with using ultrasound on various liquids, it can produce a fine mist from the liquid, spreading acids or values into the air. Use some sort of cover over your vessel to catch the mist.
I'm using a small bench model to break up some experiments that has been standing too long and solidified. Could probably be used for breaking up dried silver chloride too.

/Göran


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## 924T (Sep 27, 2012)

Goran and Freiman,

Now that's some interesting stuff, about an ultrasonic cleaner producing/causing a mist.

I'd never heard that before, but it makes sense----I think the ultrasonics run at either 30,000Hz or 40,000Hz,
so that's some pretty high frequency (from an audio point of view).

I'd bet that when reclaiming the gold from fingers, with either Ferric Chloride or Copper Chloride, if that was
done in an ultrasonic cleaner, the constant vibration would serve to keep fresh solution working on the
Copper at all times, which would speed up the process.

I think I'll try that in the very near future, because I've still got some Ferric Chloride left (I'll be switching over
to Copper Chloride as soon as the Ferric is used up)----------I would think that putting the fingers in a glass
jar with a screw-on lid should prevent Ferric Chloride mist from getting all over my garage.

Cheers,

Mike


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## butcher (Sep 27, 2012)

I would think the oxygen trying to escape would build considerable pressure in the jar, I would be afraid of it exploding.


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## g_axelsson (Sep 27, 2012)

That is a good observation, butcher. Of course you can't do any reactions in an air tight vessel.
I used a stopper made from some wetted paper as a gas filter when I was using ultrasonic on a test tube. It catches any droplets or mist coming from the solution.

I usually put a wet paper towel on top of my jars when digesting base metals or gold. Doing it outside of course.
The change in structure and discoloration of the paper proves it catches quite a lot of the released gases.
I usually works with unheated or weak solutions, I'm in no hurry and it keeps me under the radar from my neighbours.

8) 

/Göran


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## Alkymida (Sep 28, 2012)

g_axelsson said:


> That is a good observation, butcher. Of course you can't do any reactions in an air tight vessel.
> I used a stopper made from some wetted paper as a gas filter when I was using ultrasonic on a test tube. It catches any droplets or mist coming from the solution.
> 
> I usually put a wet paper towel on top of my jars when digesting base metals or gold. Doing it outside of course.
> ...



A very good idea with the wet towel.
I´ve started to use a piece of coffee-filter with a drop of cornoil on. If osmiumtetroxide is released it should turn black as a warning, was the idea.

/Peter


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## 924T (Oct 1, 2012)

Very glad to hear about the paper towel instead of a screw-on lid!

Saved by the forum, once again.

Many thanks,

Mike


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