# pins



## ovidiuanghel (Aug 28, 2012)

I have posted some time ago about some springs pins, now i have the same pins about 3 kg but much much thin, about 1 mm.

It contain CuBe alloy, golden plate iron spring, silver plate iron springs, some rhodium plate tubes and brass. I'ts a wise thing do put this pins directly to AR?


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## publius (Aug 28, 2012)

I will be corrected if I am wrong...

AR is not the best for pins.
A sulfuric acid stripping cell is the No. 1 option.

AP runs a poor second, from experience.


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## ovidiuanghel (Aug 28, 2012)

I know sulfuric cell is the best option but is hard for me to get sulfuric acid. I have two 
choices: directly AR or HCL/H2O2.


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## publius (Aug 28, 2012)

ovidiuanghel said:


> I know sulfuric cell is the best option but is hard for me to get sulfuric acid. I have two
> choices: directly AR or HCL/H2O2.



I would do the HCl/H2O2 route then. Lots of Air bubbles and lots of agitation. AR or Acid/CL will cause problems for you when trying to precipitate the Au. That much I have learned from the forum! 

Good luck.

By the way, I made a small scale sulfuric cell using the acid I boiled that I took from old lead/acid batteries. Seemed to work fine. (small scale = less than 100 ml)


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## ovidiuanghel (Aug 28, 2012)

publius said:


> ovidiuanghel said:
> 
> 
> > I know sulfuric cell is the best option but is hard for me to get sulfuric acid. I have two
> ...




thank you i'll try with HCL/H2O2


Best regards


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## tek4g63 (Aug 30, 2012)

Check out my old post "100 ounces of pins". The pins I process in that post are mostly those exact pins you have. I used AP to leach the base metals then HCL/CL to refine the foils. I'll be more than happy to answer any questions that I can for you along the way.

PS. I removed the springs and processed them separately. Took a long time to remove springs but I feel that it is worth the time. I'm currently testing a small batch, 20 ounces, with the springs still in them. Just started that batch a few days ago.


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## ovidiuanghel (Aug 30, 2012)

tek4g63 said:


> PS. I removed the springs and processed them separately. Took a long time to remove springs but I feel that it is worth the time. I'm currently testing a small batch, 20 ounces, with the springs still in them. Just started that batch a few days ago.




how many materials you have on this pins CuBe, brass, steel. You put all in AP? 

Please excuse my english.


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## tek4g63 (Aug 31, 2012)

Each of the pins has a manufacturer part number on it. Depending on the application they were intended for the base metals can be different. Google search the part number and you will find data sheets that will tell you what the base metals are. The pins I ran in the "100 ounces of pins" post were berillium copper alloy ( probably didn't spell that correctly). The springs were different in the different types of pins, most were just spring steel no plating others were gold plated spring steel, and some were silver plated spring steel. After I removed the springs I had about 6 pounds of springless pins, I then added a few other gold plated pins to the pile to get a 100 ounce total.

The batch I'm running now, 20 ounces is pins with be/cu base metal and gold plated spring steel springs still intact. I hoping they don't give me too much trouble. This will be my first time mixing base metals in AP, I only doing it as an experiment.

I hope that I was able to help you.


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## ovidiuanghel (Aug 31, 2012)

tek4g63 said:


> The batch I'm running now, 20 ounces is pins with be/cu base metal and gold plated spring steel springs still intact. I hoping they don't give me too much trouble. This will be my first time mixing base metals in AP, I only doing it as an experiment.
> 
> I hope that I was able to help you.




On pins is write only INGUN made in Germany, no code. I'll try also 100g in AP whit mix base metals. How much HCL you go on 20 ounce?


Thank you for your help!


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## tek4g63 (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm glad that I can be some help here. This forum has given me so much, and in the presence of so many great minds I rarely have the chance to give something back.

On the 100 ounces of pins, springs removed/ no steel, I ended up using 3 and a half gallons of 32% hcl and just one cup of 3% hydrogen peroxide to jump start the production of cupric chloride, aka copper II chloride. Thing is, If I knew what I know now I would diluted the hcl 50/50 with water and could have done it with less than 2 gallons of hcl. Good news is the solution was not totally saturated, after two weeks of bubbling air through the used solution with no metal in it I was able to use it one more time on about a half pound of mixed pins.

I should take the time at this point to say, if you are not completely familiar with the AP process please do some searches on here about it and visit lasersteeve's web site, he has a great data sheet on this process and some awesome videos.

The pins I'm testing with steel springs in tact are processing in some rejuvenated AP so I won't know exactly how much hcl would have been needed.


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## ovidiuanghel (Aug 31, 2012)

tek4g63 said:


> I should take the time at this point to say, if you are not completely familiar with the AP process please do some searches on here about it and visit lasersteeve's web site, he has a great data sheet on this process and some awesome videos.



I know AP process, use this process for boards and pins coper alloy base metal but now i intend to go on mixt base metals. I see the videos on lasersteve web site and here is a lot of information. I'll wait until you procces the pins with springs and i hope you share your work with us.

Best wishes
Ovidiu


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## Palladium (Aug 31, 2012)

One gallon of hcl will dissolve about 3 lbs of copper.


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## ovidiuanghel (Aug 31, 2012)

Thank you Palladium


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## Marcel (Sep 1, 2012)

I did them a while ago for a friend. 
First test run was in AP. 


Most foils dissolved, but some did not. 


I broke those pins where the goldplating was left and put the remains into HCl+Cl


Most of them gave their gold away to the solution, as the pins started to become deplated, I had to stop the reaction to avoid cementing the gold back onto the steel or brass.
Well I know, that is not the high art of recovery, but it was fast and quite effective. Yield was around 0,1%......


That was the same yield the guy had from an XRF, so not much was lost.


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## tek4g63 (Sep 1, 2012)

Yes I will surely share my results.

In my process none of the foils dissolve at all. They can break free of the base metals in finely divided particles and be difficult to see, but because I'm using rejuvenated AP with no additional oxidizers, except for an air bubbler, there is very little to no chance the gold will go into solution. So no worry of cementation onto base metals, but I would be dissolving all base metals before recovery of foils anyway, so cementing of values is not any concern here.

With that said, I did use AP with copper in solution so the process will be slower and I'll try and explain why.

The steel springs will cause copper in solution to cement out onto the steel, then the AP will have to redissolve this copper to get to the steel again that will again cement more copper out. This vicious cycle will continue until all steel is in solution. At that time the solution will actively attack the copper base metal of the pins as usual. But that first cycle will take a while. This is not a process for anyone in a hurry. 

I hope that I explained that correctly.


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## ovidiuanghel (Sep 2, 2012)

Marcel my pins are 1 mm thin and i need to remove all the base metal. 

The pins have 80% steel from pluger and springs and the rest BeCu alloy and brass.

Also have some pins whit brass pluger and BeCu rhodium plated barrel.


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