# Moebius silver cells



## rickzeien (Jan 21, 2019)

Getting ready to build a cell for a pilot project. 

I purchased at an auction a copper plating tank that was being used in an art school to plate small objects. 

I have a power supply that will run the production thum cells. 

For the cathode plates what grade and thickness of stainless steel. (The cathode plates will be approximately 18 x 18 exposed to the electrolyte)

My initial thought is there will be 4 cathode plates. 

I want to use titanium baskets with poly bags for the anode. (I plan to make silver shot to use in this cell as well as the thum cell. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aBQ62GrgrGfXns6Y7

The pumps and filter plus about 200 pounds of copper anode plus 20 pounds of copper abroad nubs came with it. 

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## Shark (Jan 21, 2019)

I love it! It makes me want one too.


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## kurtak (Jan 22, 2019)

NICE score Rick :!: 8) :G 

Kurt


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## rickzeien (Jan 27, 2019)

kurtak said:


> NICE score Rick :!: 8) :G
> 
> Kurt


Thanks Kurt. 

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## rickbb (Jan 28, 2019)

Seeing that anode basket almost made me miss my nickel plating days, almost.  
Keeping a 6 cell, 1,000 gallon common sump plater running 24/7 was hard. Doing it in a class 1k clean room hard times 10.


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## rickzeien (Jan 28, 2019)

rickbb said:


> Seeing that anode basket almost made me miss my nickel plating days, almost.
> Keeping a 6 cell, 1,000 gallon common sump plater running 24/7 was hard. Doing it in a class 1k clean room hard times 10.


I can only imagine!

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## Davew0880 (Mar 8, 2019)

rickbb said:


> Seeing that anode basket almost made me miss my nickel plating days, almost.
> Keeping a 6 cell, 1,000 gallon common sump plater running 24/7 was hard. Doing it in a class 1k clean room hard times 10.



Rickbb,

Seeing you post about nickel plating got me wondering if I can pick your brain and tap your nickel plating expertise. I want to nickel plate some household items, mainly some parts of a mortise lock set that we cannot find in nickel, at least not what we need. So, I am confident in the process, my issue and question is, which I have not been able to find the needed info online with daysof searching, I got some so called pure nickel anodes but they are covered in black specs, is this contamination indicating a lack of purity? If it is contamination, will it settle to the bottom of the tank?

Thank you for your time

Dave


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## rickbb (Mar 12, 2019)

If they are used then that black is where the plating solution was breaking down the nickel, quite normal.


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## danc (May 24, 2019)

I am new to this forum and am working on my first thum cell. I would like to avoid making a silver anode so that I know that it is the silver shot that is being plated out and not my anode connection. My study led me to consider titanium as the method for making the electrical connection to the silver shot. 

However, I saw something about titanium passivation, ie. the formation of non-conductive Titanium Dioxide that I became concerned about. Apparently, using titanium as the anode can result in titanium dioxide that stops electrolysis due to its poor conductivity.

So how did the titanium basket work for you? Did this passivation happen?

Can you tell me more about how to make a non-destructive connection to the shot? I was also considering a chunk of graphite similar to how I have my cathode designed that would compress the shot in the filter basket. Or a big piece of gold plated 14k jewelry. I also see platinized titanium which does not have problems with passivation. Because they are less active in the galvanic series than silver, they should not participate. Correct? 

I am eager to get my cell working to see how it all works, so the experience of the forum is anticipated...


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## rickzeien (May 24, 2019)

I have been quite busy with other projects and I have not finished this project. 

I do know they use titanium for anode baskets in the plating industry. (The anode baskets I have are used plating baskets)

I have not heard of any issues with them. 

If your research indicates any issues for thum cell or moebius cell systems, please post here.

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## FrugalRefiner (May 24, 2019)

You can avoid issues of passivation by making a silver "candle stick" to make your anode connection. You can fill your anode basket with shot, then put the "candle stick" on top of the shot. Keep the "candle stick" above the level of the electrolyte so it doesn't dissolve.

Dave


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## rickzeien (May 24, 2019)

FrugalRefiner said:


> You can avoid issues of passivation by making a silver "candle stick" to make your anode connection. You can fill your anode basket with shot, then put the "candle stick" on top of the shot. Keep the "candle stick" above the level of the electrolyte so it doesn't dissolve.
> 
> Dave


What would you use for a mold to make the candlestick? Graphite

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## anachronism (May 25, 2019)

I think you could use anything that allows you to cast the silver to the shape you need Rick. From what Dave is saying you're really only looking to provide a connection using silver so I doubt that it's too problematic in the design.


Jon


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## rickzeien (May 25, 2019)

I did some research on this subject and came up with the following. 

"Platinised Titanium Ti Anode Electrode

Platinum is the most effective metal for any electro chemical process due to its current conducting property. Platinum being the most expensive material rational utilization of Pt for the greater benefit ensures economical solution.Platinized Anodes is none but a rational utilization of platinum by coating or plating limited quantity on to titanium to achieve the same result as using platinum metal. We offer Anodes Electrodes in Rods, Sheet, Mesh, Tube forms from stock.
Possible applications of Platinised Titanium Anodes / Electrodes : Electroplating, Electrowinning, Electro Galvanizing, Electro Floculation, Cathodic Proctection, Water Electrolysis, Electrochlorination, Electrodialysis, Sea Water Chlorination, Sewage Treatment, Chloroalkali Cells - Diaphragm / Mercury / Membrane cells, Chlorate Cells, Hydrogen Cells, Iodate cells, Bromate Cells, Per Chlorate cells, Sodium Chlorate Cells, FUEL Cells."


Something like this pushed into the center of the basket.








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## FrugalRefiner (May 25, 2019)

rickzeien said:


> What would you use for a mold to make the candlestick? Graphite


Graphite would certainly work, but a piece of wood works too.

Dave


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## rickzeien (May 25, 2019)

Thanks Dave

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## rickzeien (May 25, 2019)

Thanks Jon

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## Palladium (May 25, 2019)

You can use anything iron as a casting mold with silver.
Spray it lightly with WD-40 or wipe it down with motor oil, mineral oil, or even Vaseline.


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## Shark (May 25, 2019)

Crude examples but they work. The bottom can be made to a convenient length.


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## rickzeien (May 25, 2019)

Shark said:


> Crude examples but they work. The bottom can be made to a convenient length.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1


Are those cast iron?

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## Shark (May 25, 2019)

Yes. 

The top one is pretty small. It will cast bars about 4 1/2" long and about the diameter of a nickle. 

The bottom one is a piece of angle cut from a bed rail and can be poured thinner or thicker to suit the need.


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## rickzeien (May 25, 2019)

Very nice!

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## Lou (May 26, 2019)

Rick,

Good use for that olivine might be to cast yourself some nice molds in cast iron.

I have about 3500 lbs of 60 mesh and if you had anything finer so I can diversify I would appreciate it!

Furnaces look awesome.


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## rickzeien (May 26, 2019)

Lou said:


> Rick,
> 
> Good use for that olivine might be to cast yourself some nice molds in cast iron.
> 
> ...


Not sure what mesh it is. I will check and get back to you.

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## Shark (May 26, 2019)

If you pour cast iron and mold your own molds, you will need to post some pictures/videos of that process as well....... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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