# What's happening here?



## Barren Realms 007

I have a small batch that I have been working on. Here are the steps I have taken after gold removed from items.
Wash and boil with water to clean solution of any previous contaminants(3 times).
Wash with HCL and let sit over night. No color change to indicate base metals.
Wash again with new HCL and bring to a good boil for 15-30 min. Let settle.
Dilute and wash with water.Let settle.
Wash with water.Let settle.
Wash with water. Let settle.
Wash with water and boil for 15-30 min.
Do another round with HCL as above(3 times).
Wash with water again and boil as above(3 times).
Wash with house hold ammonia.
Wash with ammonia again and boil for 15-30 min.
Each wash up till this point the water and HCL were removed by siphoining off the liquid.
Go thru wash process with water again 3 times. Filter the liquid after solids have settled.

My ingrediants on my ammonia bottle say Ammonium Hydroxide & Surfantant.
My solids will settle but I have this persistant cloudy solution as seen in the coffe pot on the left in the picture.
I took the filtered stuff in the center of the picture and mixed up a batch of 2 cups HCL w/1/2 cup clorox. I placed the filter in the mix for about 10 minutes to recover what gold might be in there. I filtered this again as seen in the center of the picture and this is what filtered out, same as before I put it in HCL/Clorox. The solution on the right is what came out of this mix. I did a test on it and got a slight color reaction. And it could be just the color from the solution. My testing solution should be good. The stuff in the filter I guess should just be silver cloride.

Should I run the filtered stuff in hot HCL/clorox? Or did I let it set long enough to recover the gold from it?

This is the correct Ammonia to use to remove the silver isn't it?

Since there has been no color changes in the solution during washes and rinses I feel the lead and tin and other base metals are gone.

Does the color of the HCL/clorox solution indicate something I am missing?

Would I be safe in siphoning the water out of the coffee pot evaporating the reamaning water (with out completely drying the solution) and do my HCL/Clorox treatment?


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## Oz

It sure would help to know the starting feedstock.


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## Anonymous

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Ammonium Hydroxide & Surfantant.
> ?




Surfacant, that is soap of some sort, helps lift dirt, keeps stuff suspended.

Jim


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## Barren Realms 007

The feed stock was removed from pins and fingers.

Yea I know about the surfactant, I assume it is just keeping the silver cloride suspended in solution.

The setting time for this after the ammonia step was done has been about 8 hours. The PM's should have settled since I didn't get much reaction from the filtered material.


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## lazersteve

I'm going to assume this black (?) material is from a sulfuric stripping cell.

Here's how I would proceed from this point forward.

1. Rinse the entire contents of the filter into a straight walled beaker and cover the black sediment with HCl to twice it's thickness in depth.

2. Heat to 60C.

3. Add 10 mL of Clorox and stir until the solution no longer fizzes with tiny bubbles.

4. Repeat Clorox additions with vigorous stirring after each until color of sediment changes from black to a tan/light brown/gray or completely dissolves, whichever comes first.

5. Test solution with stannous chloride for gold.

6. Do a coarse filtration on the the liquid to remove the bulk of the sediment.

7. Thoroughly rinse the sediment in the filter.

8. Perform a final fine filtration through a vacuum filter paper and a frit or with a charmin plug.

9. Heat the filtered solution on low heat to drive off any excess chlorine.

10. Add SMB to precipitate the gold.

If the material is not from a cell I may proceed differently.

Steve


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## LeftyTheBandit

When you add your stannious do you see color then it disappears?

Your acid solution may be too concentrated. Take a small sample (drop) and dilute 50% with water and test again. You may be dissolving it as fast as it indicates. (this has never happened to me, I have seen others talk of it though)

That orange color to your Acid Clorox solution is similar to an iron contaminated solution I had. If it is iron contaminated you will need to drop and treat the precipitate again with either HCl or Nitric to remove iron.

I learned that using a magnet on your feedstock before digesting will pay dividends when iron is involved. (Harold)

I must admit, your washing is commendable.


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## Barren Realms 007

lazersteve said:


> I'm going to assume this black (?) material is from a sulfuric stripping cell.
> 
> Here's how I would proceed from this point forward.
> 
> 1. Rinse the entire contents of the filter into a straight walled beaker and cover the black sediment with HCl to twice it's thickness in depth.
> 
> 2. Heat to 60C.
> 
> 3. Add 10 mL of Clorox and stir until the solution no longer fizzes with tiny bubbles.
> 
> 4. Repeat Clorox additions with vigorous stirring after each until color of sediment changes from black to a tan/light brown/gray or completely dissolves, whichever comes first.
> 
> 5. Test solution with stannous chloride for gold.
> 
> 6. Do a coarse filtration on the the liquid to remove the bulk of the sediment.
> 
> 7. Thoroughly rinse the sediment in the filter.
> 
> 8. Perform a final fine filtration through a vacuum filter paper and a frit or with a charmin plug.
> 
> 9. Heat the filtered solution on low heat to drive off any excess chlorine.
> 
> 10. Add SMB to precipitate the gold.
> 
> If the material is not from a cell I may proceed differently.
> 
> Steve



None of this came from a cell Steve.
This was harvested with HCL in crock pot (no peroxide added) for the pins. And AP for a few grams from fingers. 
Both batches were kept seperate till after the last wash and were combined just before the ammonia washing.

I figure there is still possibly some PM's in this filter that is why I am asking now rather than later for oponions. :shock:  :roll: :lol: 

Steve since this is not from a cell what would be your other suggestion?

Thanks


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## lazersteve

Incinerate the powder to red heat. Be cautious of the fumes. 

After incineration try a small sample in HCl again and see if you get a reaction. If not try the procedure I posted above on a separate small sample.

I agree with Lefty, the solution looks like it contains some iron. 

Any details on how you arrived at the powder? What color changes did you see in the original solution and powder?

Steve


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## Barren Realms 007

LeftyTheBandit said:


> When you add your stannious do you see color then it disappears?
> 
> Your acid solution may be too concentrated. Take a small sample (drop) and dilute 50% with water and test again. You may be dissolving it as fast as it indicates. (this has never happened to me, I have seen others talk of it though)
> 
> That orange color to your Acid Clorox solution is similar to an iron contaminated solution I had. If it is iron contaminated you will need to drop and treat the precipitate again with either HCl or Nitric to remove iron.
> 
> I learned that using a magnet on your feedstock before digesting will pay dividends when iron is involved. (Harold)
> 
> I must admit, your washing is commendable.



Hi Lefty, yea that was kind of the way it seemed to happen. And I think you might be on to something there. 
The picture below shows 2 filters and 2 Q-tips. The filter on the left was the first test that was done you can see a slight bit of color. This was done just before the first message post. The stain on the filter on the right is with your suggestion. I took one Q-tip and put about 3 drops of solution on a plate and then took a 2nd Q-tip and put about 3 drops of water on the plate I mixed it together with a 3rd Q-tip. The stain on the right was the result when this mix was put on the test solution on the filter paper. The Q-tips had no stain on them and I put some test solution on them and got the color you see. So I would aay you are correct in the saturation being a possible problem.


The orange color of the solution gave me the same thought about the iron that was what made me start this thread and ask before I went any farther. I started to do a run in sulfuric but haven't yet. I will admit I didn't use a magnet on the pins in this batch, but I will from now on just to eliminate any problems.

Thank you for the compliment that means alot. :mrgreen:


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## Barren Realms 007

lazersteve said:


> Incinerate the powder to red heat. Be cautious of the fumes.
> 
> After incineration try a small sample in HCl again and see if you get a reaction. If not try the procedure I posted above on a separate small sample.
> 
> I agree with Lefty, the solution looks like it contains some iron.
> 
> Any details on how you arrived at the powder? What color changes did you see in the original solution and powder?
> 
> Steve



I just spent 45 min writing a detailed brief on what I had done and the color changes like you had asked. I tried at the end to upload a small film I took of the first HCL bath. The system seemed to crash and sent me back to me replying to Lefty's message. This small film showed the solution setteling and you could see the top of the solution that the HCL was fairly clean with not much color change. I will edit this message tomorrow and write the breif again. 

Should I continue to wash and siphon the gold laden material in my coffee pot till I get the stuff to settle out? 
Shouldn't an 8 hour set time be enough to get this to settle out? 
Is the Ammonia so hard to wash out?


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## Harold_V

LeftyTheBandit said:


> I must admit, your washing is commendable.


Serious overkill! I'm all for good washing and rinsing, but you reach a point of diminishing, or no return. 

The point of doing the HCl wash in this type of material is to insure good filtration. I wouldn't be concerned about a wash with ammonium hydroxide, especially if the source of the material didn't include any silver. 

Having spoken my piece, I have to admit, if a gold of high quality is the target, you'll never be sorry for too much washing. I am a firm believer in the idea that garbage being carried through a process is going to show up in the final product. It's just a matter of how much you're comfortable in living with. 

Harold


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## Barren Realms 007

Harold_V said:


> LeftyTheBandit said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must admit, your washing is commendable.
> 
> 
> 
> Serious overkill! I'm all for good washing and rinsing, but you reach a point of diminishing, or no return.
> 
> The point of doing the HCl wash in this type of material is to insure good filtration. I wouldn't be concerned about a wash with ammonium hydroxide, especially if the source of the material didn't include any silver.
> 
> Having spoken my piece, I have to admit, if a gold of high quality is the target, you'll never be sorry for too much washing. I am a firm believer in the idea that garbage being carried through a process is going to show up in the final product. It's just a matter of how much you're comfortable in living with.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...


Thanks Harold. Why do you feel this was overkill. I did as has been instructed here except for the 2nd HCL wash but I had a little bit of tin left in my mix I felt. 

When I processed the original AP material I took my (pins) solution from the crock pot diluted it with water and let all the solids settle I had some silver cloride develope because I had done this with tap water. That was why I washed the way I did. 

I felt there was possibly some silver in the mix and that was why I washed with the ammonia. I was trying to make sure I eliminated all contaminants.

Unless there is another white fine product that forms when tap water is induced into your solution.


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## lazersteve

Barren said:


> Unless there is another white fine product that forms when tap water is induced into your solution.



With AP, copper I chloride saturation is indicated by a white cloud when water is added to the dark colored AP solution. Copper I chloride is soluble in straight ~32% HCl.

Steve


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## Barren Realms 007

Here is a link to the first HCL washing I did on one of my batches in this group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vK5t-wBMTg

This batch in the clip was from pins still in connectors done in HCL/peroxide. After the HCL wash I tested the solution and got a slight reaction like the one shown on the filter paper it showed positive for PM's. I applied SMB to this batch of HCL and dropped a very small amount of gold after it had set for 2 days. This was why I chose the washing process I did.

Ok I have 3 batches listed
1. Pins in crock pot done in HCL only.
2. Pins in connectors done in HCL/peroxide(couldn't pull the pins out of these connectors)
3. Fingers (1/2 a small baggie say 4-6 oz.)

Group 1 & 2 were combined after 1st HCL wash and water wash because they were same items and I had made sure there was no more possability of loss from the reaction with left over peroxide.

Steve here are the colors that you asked about thru the diffrent cycles.

1st round of water wash
1. Gold floating around(as seen in video above)
2. Blackish brown powdery substance
3. Whitish percipitant( this I presume to be silver cloride)
4. Very fine brownishr on the top layer
5. Slight greenish copper color (this I assume might be a form of Copper)
6. Tin floating around
(Aproximatly combined voulme in coffe pots aprox. 4 cups after setteling)

1st round HCL Wash
1. Gold floating around(as seen in video above)
2. Blackish brown powdery substance
3. Whitish percipitant( this I presume to be silver cloride)
4. Very fine brownish layer on the top layer
5. Slight greenish copper color 
6. No more tin floating.

(Aproximate combined volume after this process in coffee pots 3.5 cups after setteling)

Water wash
1. Gold floating around
2. Blackish brown powdery substance
3. Whitish percipitant
4. Very fine brownish/black layer on the top layer
5. Smell of lead boiling.

(Apprimate combined volume after setteling 3 cups)

I did a 2nd HCL wash just to make sure I didn't miss anything in the first round, just because all of you preach purity.

2nd HCL wash
1. Gold floating around
2. Blackish brown powdery substance
3. Whitish percipitant( this has slowly dissapeared, color change I assume?)
4. Very fine brownish powder on the top layer
(No change in volume settled)

(Batches ((1,2) &3) were mixed together at this point)

Ammonia wash
1. Gold floating around
2. Brownish powdery substance
3. Slight bit of white still left
(Approimate volume of settled material 2 cups with lots of material floating in coffee pot as seen in first picture of this thread.)


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## Barren Realms 007

lazersteve said:


> Barren said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless there is another white fine product that forms when tap water is induced into your solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With AP, copper I chloride saturation is indicated by a white cloud when water is added to the dark colored AP solution. Copper I chloride is soluble in straight ~32% HCl.
> 
> Steve
Click to expand...


You answered this while I was writing the post over that was what I was meaning by copper cupric I, I was wrong and will change the post thanks for that.

I read your post again and my above statement is incorrect I will do a search and correct this. 
But to answer this perticular statement yes I did see the white cloud you are referring to in the saturated solution of the pins in the crock pot (no peroxide added just HCL, this would be batch #1)


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## shyknee

Barren Realms 007 
from your last two post what i understand is that you have only dissolved base metals 
your gold is visible and sparking in this washed down solution
question for you is have you dissoved the gold with hcl and clorox then precipitated with sodium metabisulfite (SMB)



your washing is premature .wash after you have precipitated your gold powder


follow lazersteve's instructions to the "t" for succes (most would say to read hoke's book again untill you understand)


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## Barren Realms 007

i


shyknee said:


> Barren Realms 007
> from your last two post what i understand is that you have only dissolved base metals
> your gold is visible and sparking in this washed down solution
> question for you is have you dissoved the gold with hcl and clorox then precipitated with sodium metabisulfite (SMB)
> 
> 
> 
> your washing is premature .wash after you have precipitated your gold powder
> 
> 
> follow lazersteve's instructions to the "t" for succes (most would say to read hoke's book again untill you understand)




Sky the video shows the gold flakes and all after I had stirred it, this was the 1st HCL washe . The gold you see in the video is still in flake form it has not been disloved in HCL/clorox. 
The only thing that has been put in HCL/clorox is what was filtered out from the water wash trying to flush the ammonia out, this is what was in the picture in the 1st post of this thread.


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## shyknee

yes 
the hcl -clorox needs to have the gold precipitated with SMB
have you done this



the filter is from what ? the beaker on the right or the orange hcl-clorox


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## Barren Realms 007

shyknee said:


> yes
> the hcl -clorox needs to have the gold precipitated with SMB
> have you done this
> 
> 
> 
> the filter is from what ? the beaker on the right or the orange hcl-clorox



I haven't dropped the gold in the HCL/clorox solution yet but I will be shortly.

The filter is from the orange solution on the right.


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## shyknee

i saw the video

from this point 1:let settle
2:decant liquid off the top of the settled powders and sluge 
3:add hcl-clorox to dissolve values add clorox in small increments and stir untill all is in solution
4:add water 3:1 in volume and let settle (a white powder may or may not form on the bottem)
5:decante liquid off of this powder or fillter well into a clean glass container 
6:add SMB to precipitate the gold into a fine powder (this is what you should be washing )
7:for cleaner gold redo step 3 to 6 then dry and melt your powder


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## Barren Realms 007

shyknee said:


> i saw the video
> 
> from this point 1:let settle
> 2:decant liquid off the top of the settled powders and sluge
> 3:add hcl-clorox to dissolve values add clorox in small increments and stir untill all is in solution
> 4:add water 3:1 in volume and let settle (a white powder may or may not form on the bottem)
> 5:decante liquid off of this powder or fillter well into a clean glass container
> 6:add SMB to precipitate the gold into a fine powder (this is what you should be washing )
> 7:for cleaner gold redo step 3 to 6 then dry and melt your powder



Thanks Skyknee, this was going to be my plan of attack for tomorrow.


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## Barren Realms 007

> 2. Heat to 60C.
> 
> 3. Add 10 mL of Clorox and stir until the solution no longer fizzes with tiny bubbles.
> 
> 4. Repeat Clorox additions with vigorous stirring after each until color of sediment changes from black to a tan/light brown/gray or completely dissolves, whichever comes first.



Steve I have a couple of questions on this. 

I take it that the heat is supposed to stay on the solution till this process is finished? 

The addition of the HCL during this, when the fizzing stops is it because the clorox has reacted and it is to the saturation point with clorox or is it just that the temperature is dropping and it dosen't react as much when you add the clorox?

The reason I ask is because I siphoned off the coffee pot today and did this procedure on the material. I started with 1-1/2 cup's of HCL and with temp around 140 F I added 1/3 cup clorox _*very slowly*_ had the viloent reaction (slight bubbling HA ROFLMAO). Nope I have done this before so I didn't mess up. I added this over a period of about 5 min and then let the solution stay heated. After about 30 min I could still see some flakes so I added 1 cup of HCL and another 1/3 cup of clorox slowly again. The flaked dissapeared and I didn't see any visable sighns of gold. Should I have just kept adding clorox to the first 1-1/2 cups till the fizzing as it is called slowed to a non violent reation? i let this stay on the heat for another 30 min.

When I filtered the solution it had a clear emerald green color to it. Copper in solution I take it. Harold do you still think It was overkill on the washing? The filter paper had a very positive test forPM's when I tested the solution after the filter had been rinsed. I doulbled the volume with water and dropped with SMB. Had a very thick looking light brown percipitation.

And the orange solution in the picture in the first post of this thread. I put some SMB in it today and it dropped a darkish brown looking percipitate. Not very thick tho. 

I know all of you have been thru this and it is not my first batch, just trying to build some confidence make sure things are correct. Thank you for your paitence.  




> Harold_V wrote:
> Serious overkill! I'm all for good washing and rinsing, but you reach a point of diminishing, or no return.
> 
> The point of doing the HCl wash in this type of material is to insure good filtration. I wouldn't be concerned about a wash with ammonium hydroxide, especially if the source of the material didn't include any silver.
> 
> Having spoken my piece, I have to admit, if a gold of high quality is the target, you'll never be sorry for too much washing. I am a firm believer in the idea that garbage being carried through a process is going to show up in the final product. It's just a matter of how much you're comfortable in living with.





View attachment 1


View attachment 2


View attachment 3


This looked better outside in the dark with a flash light, It looks bad in the light. IMHO!!!

Edited: Changed Clorox to HCL


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## butcher

You can wash powder's till your blue in the face and still get base metals,and still have basemetals in the powders.
and you will be guessing how much of that white powder is copper. 
dissolving, reprocessing works, as it picks them up into solution were a wash will not. sorry to but in here.


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## Barren Realms 007

butcher said:


> You can wash powder's till your blue in the face and still get base metals,and still have basemetals in the powders.
> and you will be guessing how much of that white powder is copper.
> dissolving, reprocessing works, as it picks them up into solution were a wash will not. sorry to but in here.



Yes sir there is definetly a learning curve here......

And you are neve buttin in as far as I am concerned, I enjoy reading your posts on the forum.


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## butcher

seems like once, we think we leran something we find out how many more things we need to learn, and how little we do understand. this is what make people grow old and wise. a quest for to know. :lol:


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## Barren Realms 007

Well I'm definetly on the quest for knowledge if you can bare with my stupid sorry ass.

And by the way, no white powder to be found in the soluion any more....DUHHHHHHH!!!!!!


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## butcher

barren nobody thinks you are stupid, just the opposite, only smart people spend this kind of trouble to learn, not sitting on a couch watching cartoons, keep this up and you too will become old and wise, did you have Iron in the mix?


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## Barren Realms 007

I think so in the first batch. But looks more like possible copper in the last batch of the coffee pot. Look at the picks I posted a few posts up just above your first post. What is your oponion?


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## butcher

if this was with clorox, seems to have a copper, or nickel color but kinda looks like maybe some Iron, if so it can precipitate the copper, I really have not been following this that close, and you have others here helping you with this, so you will be best to stick with there help, looks like you are getting there I'll just back out now, good luck. Cannot wait to see that pretty chunk of gold from this batch.


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## shyknee

your precipitates are what you should wash and boil not the gold pins and foils
the gold powder will need to be redissolved in a minimum amount hcl-cl and reprecipitated
post a picture of your button or at least the weight of the powder dry



good going so far

you will learn to use a stannuos test on the spent solution to make sure all the gold precipitated out


be safe 
and enjoy


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## lazersteve

Barren said:


> Steve I have a couple of questions on this.
> 
> I take it that the heat is supposed to stay on the solution till this process is finished?



Yes.



Barren said:


> The addition of the HCL during this, when the fizzing stops is it because the clorox has reacted and it is to the saturation point with clorox or is it just that the temperature is dropping and it dosen't react as much when you add the clorox?



Sounds like you either typed this backwards from my instructions or performed it backwards, I will assume it's a typo as you should add the HCl to the powder first, then slowly add small increments of Clorox. You may have to add more HCl if a small fresh addition of Clorox does not produce any reaction and there is still visible gold, black powder, or brown powder present. Since liquid bleach is dilute (2.5-5%) right out of the jug, not much chlorine gas (the active ingredient) is formed with each addition, that's why the fizzing stops. Stirring allows the dilute Clorox to contact the HCl in the solution to produce the chlorine gas to dissolve the gold. Stirring also brings the powder off the bottom of the beaker and allows it to contact the chlorine. This is why stirring is so important. *Not just a simple stir like you stir your coffee, but repeated vigorous stirring.*



Barren said:


> ... I started with 1-1/2 cup's of Clorox (lazersteve: this should read HCl *not* clorox) and with temp around 140 F I added 1/3 cup clorox very slowly had the viloent reaction (slight bubbling HA ROFLMAO) (lazersteve: in my instructions I suggested 10 mL additions, *not* 78 mL, hense the violent reaction.). Nope I have done this before so I didn't mess up. I added this over a period of about 5 min and then let the solution stay heated.  (lazersteve: this much Clorox should have been added over the course of *40 mins* with vigous stirring between additons) After about 30 min I could still see some flakes so I added 1 cup of HCL and another 1/3 cup of clorox slowly again.  (lazersteve: see previous notes above) The flaked dissapeared and I didn't see any visable sighns of gold. Should I have just kept adding clorox to the first 1-1/2 cups till the fizzing as it is called slowed to a non violent reation? (lazersteve: Yes) i let this stay on the heat for another 30 min. (lazersteve:Good, this will drive off the excess chlorine from the over abundance of Clorox you used)
> 
> I know all of you have been thru this and it is not my first batch, just trying to build some confidence make sure things are correct. Thank you for your paitence.



Overall you did very well to achieve what you did. Please take note of the red colored comments I have inserted to your post.

Steve


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## Barren Realms 007

Thanks Steve.

Yes it was a typo I started with 1-1/2 cups of HCL not clorox. Sorry about that I will go change it. The clorox was 1/3 cup of clorx was not added in one pop it was added in about 20 ml increments, but in too short of time as you say. I think my heat was too high( I was using a meat cooking thermometer because my didgital one went bad). I feel that the clorine was evaporated off when it hit the solution hence the violent reaction. There was not as strong clorine smell from the pot after the reaction as in my past batches( or my smelling has gone hay wire).

Ok I'm repeating today with a little bit less heat and smaller clorox additions. Appreciate the help Steve.


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## Barren Realms 007

> ... I started with 1-1/2 cup's of Clorox (lazersteve: this should read HCl not clorox) and with temp around 140 F I added 1/3 cup clorox very slowly had the viloent reaction (slight bubbling HA ROFLMAO) (lazersteve: in my instructions I suggested 10 mL additions, not 78 mL, hense the violent reaction.). Nope I have done this before so I didn't mess up. I added this over a period of about 5 min and then let the solution stay heated. (lazersteve: this much Clorox should have been added over the course of 40 mins with vigous stirring between additons) After about 30 min I could still see some flakes so I added 1 cup of HCL and another 1/3 cup of clorox slowly again. (lazersteve: see previous notes above) The flaked dissapeared and I didn't see any visable sighns of gold. Should I have just kept adding clorox to the first 1-1/2 cups till the fizzing as it is called slowed to a non violent reation? (lazersteve: Yes) i let this stay on the heat for another 30 min. (lazersteve:Good, this will drive off the excess chlorine from the over abundance of Clorox you used)



Ok Steve I followed your instructions very closely. I started with 2 cups of HCL this time which was about twice the volume as you suggested. I lowerd the heat a little bit and didn't get as violent of a reaction as yesterday. I also took a 3/8" water supply tub and dipped it in the clorox and then injected it into the HCL to let the clorine gas have more effect on the solution. I injected about 2 cups of clorox over the run of this, still kept getting a fizzing reaction when I put the clorox in, even with so much clorox was in there. 

Thank you for the tip's, help, guidence & paitence.

View attachment 1


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## butcher

pretty sunset.


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## Barren Realms 007

butcher said:


> pretty sunset.



Yea the picture does not due it justice. We have been having sunsets like that for the last 2 weeks. I caught one about 3 months ago that was the best I have ever seen, but I lost it when my phone died.


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## Barren Realms 007

Hello all. Thanks for the help from eveyone on this batch. 

I put the filter material thru another round of HCL/clorox today. Got a reaction on the test and performed a drop again. Getting a dark setteling solution today.



View attachment 1


Everyone getting ready for Thanksgiving?


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## Barren Realms 007

Just an update on this thread. Don't throw your solutions away. 

After the soultions on this thread were not testing for gold they were thrown in a pot by themselves. They were heavily saturated with SMB. They have set since August. A precipitant of gold settled and stuck to the side of the plastic bucket the solution was in. A lot of clorox was used on these to make sure that all the gold had been dissolved.

Well months later the solution was reduced by heating in a crock pot. 

A hard material developed in the bottom of the crock pot during the reduction. 

The solution was drained off and tested positive for gold, this was placed equally in 2 quart glass jars.

SMB was added to one in powder form, about 1oz., gold formed. 

1 oz of powder was added to the 2nd glass jar, aand same results.

Both jars were added together into a 1 gal glass container. And the volume double by the addition of water. And again SMB was added, this time mixed with warm water and then added to the solution. A very fine and probably dirty gold cloud is still setteling. And will be processed again.

Water was added to the hard substance in the crok pot and it returned to a liquid with gold mixed in. Haven't finished processing this yet.

Always trust what your teachers tell you here on the forum. Don't throw your soultion away untill you have exhausted all possabilities.


----------



## Harold_V

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Just an update on this thread. Don't throw your solutions away.


Somehow I missed reading some of the posts in this thread, one of which addressed a question to me. I apologize---I try to never ignore a direct question. 

I believe your question was about washing precipitated gold. 

Unlike Steve, I _*never*_ put a time limit on washing, nor do I recommend you, or anyone, do so. 

Reason?

Well, for starters, it's unlikely you'll be consistent enough for your washing procedure to respond to a clock. That's particularly true if you process materials like bench filings, where you incinerate, then give the filings a preliminary wash in dilute nitric. In spite of your best efforts, the resulting gold will be of questionable quality, so prolonged boiling in HCl is required. Even then, you will not be successful in raising the quality to an acceptable level----but you will improve the quality markedly, preparing it for the final refining, which, when conducted properly, will most assuredly yield gold that exceeds industry standard. I would hesitate to suggest you will accomplish 4n's, but it is possible. Therefore, no, you can't wash your gold too much. 

I highly recommend you boil for a prolonged period of time, then do a boiling rinse (tap water is fine). A second application of HCl and a prolonged boil will generally indicate if you have removed that which will willingly be removed. The second boil will generally yield only a faint color, generally blue/green. 

Gold of this quality will respond exceedingly well to a second refining. It should not be melted, but dissolved directly. If you use SO2 gas to precipitate, the entrapped contamination will be evident after the gold has settled via the off color of the remaining solution. 

Lets talk about your stock pot. 

Anything that hits your stock pot should give up its values almost instantly. A properly maintained stock pot will have an abundance of base metal present at all times, until it is time to clean out the recovered values. My policy was to keep mine filled with small pieces of scrap steel. Short lengths of angle iron, channel iron, even pipe, galvanized or not, are very acceptable. The material is slowly dissolved, collecting the values in the process. Remember----a stock pot's sole purpose is to recover traces of values that might otherwise be lost. 

Hope some of this helps. 

Harold


----------



## lazersteve

Harold said:


> Unlike Steve, I never put a time limit on washing, nor do I recommend you, or anyone, do so.



For the record any references I make to timing in my washing process is included merely for a reference to the observed times I typically see when washing my precipitated gold. As Harold points out, wash times vary with the contamination present in the gold powder. I never wash with a timer set or watching the clock, all washes are done 'on the fly', and treatment is carried out until the HCl no longer darkens and a subsequent wash remains relatively clear as Harold has always stated.

Steve


----------



## Harold_V

Steve's comments are right on target. I should have considered that, in his case, he primarily is dealing with recovered materials that are almost barren of base metals. In such a case, a short wash may be (and probably is) adequate. Key to success is the one single indicator that displays the intended results----further washing does not yield a discolored wash solution.

Harold


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Harold_V said:


> Steve's comments are right on target. I should have considered that, in his case, he primarily is dealing with recovered materials that are almost barren of base metals. In such a case, a short wash may be (and probably is) adequate. Key to success is the one single indicator that displays the intended results----further washing does not yield a discolored wash solution.
> 
> Harold



I will find out when i wash it in some HCL the see if it cleans up. But it is such a fine powder there might not be much contamination just looksreal black because it is so fine and not coagulated. It has settled now and i need to decant the solution. The solution is a darkish green color (olive green). I'll see if Ican find time to finish the batch this weekend and run the percipitated gold thru process again.


----------



## Harold_V

For the record, it was my experience that the darker gold precipitated, the more it was contaminated. When it's fine, as you described, it's entirely possible that contamination is locked in in such a fashion that it won't wash out. That's the point of re-refining. 

For years, my process of precipitation (by choice) was to use SO2 from a cylinder. It has huge benefits in that you don't increase volumes, which, to me, was very important, but the best benefit was not adding any substances that had the least bit of a chance of changing the color of my solutions. As a result, when I precipitated my gold, it was absolutely clear to me if it would be relatively pure, or not. When the solution was heavily contaminated, such as when precipitating from filings, which I mentioned earlier, the quality was never acceptable. It was, in fact, so bad, that it was that gold that was melted and used as my added gold when evaporating. That way, it received two more opportunities to be purified. 

One other thing I'd like to mention. For many years, I routinely re-refined my gold. It was one of the things that set me apart from my competition, and insured that I never received complaints of casting problems, or brittle gold. What I learned from that experience is that when gold is precipitated from relatively highly concentrated solutions, it comes down what I like to call blonde gold. Instead of the dark bronze color with which most are familiar, it came down a very light cinnamon color----and on rare occasion, as fine (shiny) crystals. Such gold, when washed, gave up no color. It was relatively safe to assume that it was better than 9995 when it was dissolved, but there is no guarantee that is the case, so everything got re-refined. 

It was common to find a _*hint*_ of blue in my solutions after a second refining. Proof positive that even the best washing procedures do not remove all contamination. 

In order for me to have improved my quality beyond that which I delivered, it would have likely required not using tap water in the process, and maybe even switching to reagent chemicals instead of tech grade. Considering my gold could be melted without flux, and without oxidation, it was clear, at least to me, that my processing was beyond reproach. I exceeded the industry standard on a routine basis, and was content to pursue refining in the manner I chose. Damned few people here will ever be content, always looking for something better. 

It's easy to find. It's all in Hoke, where you, too, can learn to process gold of this quality:



Harold


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Harold_V said:


> One other thing I'd like to mention. For many years, I routinely re-refined my gold. It was one of the things that set me apart from my competition, and insured that I never received complaints of casting problems, or brittle gold. What I learned from that experience is that when gold is precipitated from relatively highly concentrated solutions, it comes down what I like to call blonde gold. Instead of the dark bronze color with which most are familiar, it came down a very light cinnamon color----and on rare occasion, as fine (shiny) crystals. Such gold, when washed, gave up no color. It was relatively safe to assume that it was better than 9995 when it was dissolved, but there is no guarantee that is the case, so everything got re-refined.
> 
> Harold



Thanks Harold I'm sure you have mentioned this before. High concentrations. What would you consider as high.

Johnny this answers your question about your avatar picture.


----------



## Harold_V

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Thanks Harold I'm sure you have mentioned this before. High concentrations. What would you consider as high.


Contrary to the opinion of some on this board, heat is the problem with concentration. Clearly, you have great difficulty precipitating five ounces from a liter of solution. 

My target, when re-refining, was to have about 18 troy ounces per liter of gold chloride. To that, I added three liters of ice prior to precipitation, which was a requirement, not a luxury. Without the ice, the solution reached a temperature whereby the gold ceased to precipitate. Even with ice added, it was common for my barren solution to be so hot that some gold refused to come down. The addition of a little more ice would instantly drop the gold, however. 

So then, if you have three ounces or less per liter, you may have success without the addition of cooling. That is one of the advantages of working with dilute solutions. I preferred not to. 

Harold


----------



## Lou

Harold,

The reason why the gold would refuse to come down is that the solution was so hot and so saturated with ions it would not hold any sulfur dioxide--this means that all of your gas quickly left the solution. As you know well, the solubility of a gas in a liquid decreases with increasing temperature. Sulfur dioxide is no exception. 


I should emphasize to everyone that the cooler you keep your solution when precipitating gold (keep it below room temperature), the happier you will be.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

:!:


----------



## Harold_V

Lou said:


> Harold,
> 
> The reason why the gold would refuse to come down is that the solution was so hot and so saturated with ions it would not hold any sulfur dioxide--this means that all of your gas quickly left the solution. As you know well, the solubility of a gas in a liquid decreases with increasing temperature. Sulfur dioxide is no exception.


That's an interesting observation, but I question if it is theory, or fact. Here's why. The instant ice was added, there was an immediate cloud of gold formed. It's as if the reaction is exothermic, and had to lose heat in order for the reaction (precipitation) to take place. You should also note that the solution had an overwhelming smell of SO2, so it was apparent to me that there was enough present. 

None of this is intended to be a challenge to your comments, Lou. I'm simply hoping to get a firm understanding of something that perplexed me for years. 

Harold


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Harold_V said:


> Lou said:
> 
> 
> 
> Harold,
> 
> The reason why the gold would refuse to come down is that the solution was so hot and so saturated with ions it would not hold any sulfur dioxide--this means that all of your gas quickly left the solution. As you know well, the solubility of a gas in a liquid decreases with increasing temperature. Sulfur dioxide is no exception.
> 
> 
> 
> That's an interesting observation, but I question if it is theory, or fact. Here's why. The instant ice was added, there was an immediate cloud of gold formed. It's as if the reaction is exothermic, and had to lose heat in order for the reaction (precipitation) to take place. You should also note that the solution had an overwhelming smell of SO2, so it was apparent to me that there was enough present.
> 
> None of this is intended to be a challenge to your comments, Lou. I'm simply hoping to get a firm understanding of something that perplexed me for years.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...


Would this do the same thing at around 75-80F when you add a very saturaded amount of SMB and you do get and excess of SO2 bubbles on the top of your solution? 

I didn't test with a thermometer to see if there was an increase in temp., and didn't really notice any change from feeling of the container.

Would there be a possability of sdding a small amount of SMB again but with the temp of the fluid droped to around 45-50F to see if any thing percipitates?


----------



## Harold_V

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Would this do the same thing at around 75-80F when you add a very saturaded amount of SMB and you do get and excess of SO2 bubbles on the top of your solution?


It's not clear to me if your question is addressed to me, or Lou. 

My experiences, all of which were identical, was that there was never a problem with precipitating the last traces of gold unless the solution was exceedingly hot. It would be uncomfortable to handle, well above 110°F. Because I precipitated large volumes when re-refining, this was an ongoing phenomenon. It was consistent, the only variations being the amount of gold per cylinder. When it was low enough, there was not a problem with precipitation because the temperature was low enough. 

Keep in mind, I started with four liters of fluid, three liters of which was just ice. The amount of heat dissipated in precipitation is quite high. I expect that all of the energy that was absorbed in dissolving the gold is now returned. 



> I didn't test with a thermometer to see if there was an increase in temp., and didn't really notice any change from feeling of the container.


If you have a practice of diluting your solutions with three volumes of water, plus you add water with your precipitant, it is highly doubtful you would notice much temperature change. Remember, I'm talking about 18 ounces or more, in four liters. 



> Would there be a possability of sdding a small amount of SMB again but with the temp of the fluid droped to around 45-50F to see if any thing percipitates?


None of this is magic. If your solution tests barren, unless there is unprecipitated gold chloride locked in that which has already been precipitated, there is no reason to expect any further precipitation. That might not be true if your solution was over heated, however. 

The unprecipitated gold chloride I speak of is a very real phenomenon. Because of the huge volume of gold particles that come down from concentrated solutions, just like contamination gets dragged down, so, too, does gold chloride. When all of the gold was down, it was required of me to stir the resulting gold to liberate the balance of gold chloride. Solution that tested barren prior to heavy stirring suddenly tested positive for gold. Depending on circumstances, it wasn't unusual for me to have to stir more than once, continuing with the addition of SO2. 

Harold


----------



## Barren Realms 007

I started taking the cover off of these and thought I would share some pictures.















http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIUxgH6u4DE

If the forum would like the other individual pictures of the item's posted let me know and I will be glad to post them.


----------



## goldsilverpro

I love all that stuff, especially that in the left half. All-gold side-braze packages run high - lots of gold braze. The little 14 and 16 lead ones can run $300/# - $400/#. Great stuff! The TO3s in the bottom pic aren't worth much at all.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Yea I figured that would be worth posting a pick on. 

That stuff has gold all in it. I'm going to have to go into the ceramic's on these to get it all.   8) 

Would a cell be ok for those TO3's? I am not sure if there is plating on the inside of them I haven't seen it mentioned.


----------



## goldsilverpro

> Would a cell be ok for those TO3's? I am not sure if there is plating on the inside of them I haven't seen it mentioned.


I doubt it. Pop one open and see what's there. Some have zero gold. The best ones (old) are completely gold plated but are often covered with black paint. The TO3s are made in at least 6 or 8 different ways. The ones you have look to be one of the worst type. If you can't see gold somewhere on the outside, they're usually not good.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Is this what you are talking about?


----------



## Barren Realms 007

goldsilverpro said:


> The little 14 and 16 lead ones can run $300/# - $400/#. Great stuff! .



Would the small ones have more of a yield then the large ones above them?

And for them to get that amount I would guess the yield to possibly be .6-.8 oz per lb for a yield.

If you were to some how put them in a cell would it deplate the gold from under the ceramics?

But I really like these myself.


----------



## goldsilverpro

> Would the small ones have more of a yield then the large ones above them?


Per pound of parts, yes - not per unit. The bigger ones have a lot more ceramic but about the same chip area and lid ring area (those are the areas where the gold braze is, which makes up most of the gold value). Therefore, the small ones are worth more per pound.



> And for them to get that amount I would guess the yield to possibly be .6-.8 oz per lb for a yield.


$300 - $400/# = .26 - .35 oz/#



> If you were to some how put them in a cell would it deplate the gold from under the ceramics?


No. The sulfuric cell essentially won't attack the Au/Sn braze under the lid or the Au/Si braze under the chip. Those materials might take days to strip, if they strip at all. It generally works well only on gold plating.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

goldsilverpro said:


> And for them to get that amount I would guess the yield to possibly be .6-.8 oz per lb for a yield.
> 
> 
> 
> $300 - $400/# = .26 - .35 oz/#
Click to expand...


How are you going to make a profit paying spot gold price? 8)


----------



## goldsilverpro

When I say value or worth, I mean intrinsic gold content.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

goldsilverpro said:


> When I say value or worth, I mean intrinsic gold content.



I was figureing you ment that after I wrote the reply, sorry. It was the way the first post was implied I thought you were implying scrap value not gold value. Sorry for that.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

I got a small problem here. This is the drop I had after I added SMB.

The make up of this group was silicone chips from pentium pros, possibly tungeston from pp's, high grade ceramic chips, some fingers after processe, some pins after processed.

This stuff was washed in HCL,water washes till no more color changes before I disolved the material in HCL/Clorox. There was nothing odd about the group before I disolved it.

After I disolved the material I added 1/3 volume of water and evaporated to remove the chlorine. It was then doubled in volume with water and container put in ice bath and solution filtered thru a charmin plug. The soution was then evaporated to remove water. It was then put on an ice bath for a little bit and then SMB was added. The solution was a nice brownish red with no sighn of any contamination before the SMB was added.


----------



## lazersteve

What is the temperature of the solution in the photos?

If it is cold, try heating it up and see what happens.

Steve


----------



## Barren Realms 007

lazersteve said:


> What is the temperature of the solution in the photos?
> 
> If it is cold, try heating it up and see what happens.
> 
> Steve




It was cold when I started but had warmed up some. I will try heat tomorrow if I can drag my body out of the bed. Bug put me down today. Damn allergies,summer colds.

Thanks Steve


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Heat didn't clear it up, I had to add some HCL and it cleared up. Can you give me an idea on why this happened. Did I evaporate this down to far? I haven't had this happen on the other batches I did like this. And no it wasn't tin. I had washed in water before I disolved the gold and there was no tin in the solution.


----------



## g_axelsson

Copper(I) chloride maybe? It dissolves in HCl and is only slightly soluble in water.

/Göran


----------



## Barren Realms 007

g_axelsson said:


> Copper(I) chloride maybe? It dissolves in HCl and is only slightly soluble in water.
> 
> /Göran



Could be but I don't think so. It was like the SMB didn't dissolve. Water wasn't added with the SMB it was put in as a powder. And it created that mess the second I put the first amount in.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Bada Bing 38g.

Looks like crap!
Tastes like crap!
Must be CRAP!

Maybe my standards are too high. 8)




And the wife wanted to play with it when I showed it to her and she got a tight grip on it but I was able to pry it from her hands.


----------



## qst42know

Barren Realms 007 said:


> And the wife wanted to play with it when I showed it to her and she got a tight grip on it but I was able to pry it from her hands.



You know she only let go because she knows you gotta sleep sometime. :mrgreen:


----------



## shyknee

is this your first baby
good job :mrgreen:


----------



## Barren Realms 007

qst42know said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the wife wanted to play with it when I showed it to her and she got a tight grip on it but I was able to pry it from her hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know she only let go because she knows you gotta sleep sometime. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...


Yea she told me I should put it in the safe but she knows where the key is to that. So that aint going to happen. I got some places she can't find it. Or I can take it to my shop, she never goes there. She might see future buttons but only a glimse from afar. 8)


----------



## Barren Realms 007

shyknee said:


> is this your first baby
> good job :mrgreen:



Yep it was. I have nothing to complain about it looks fair. A lot of work went into that thing. The next one will be quicker and sooner. 8) And I guess I didn't get all the chlorine out of my soultion it is turning a blackish color so more will drop here soon just in very fine powder but it should be clean to melt when it does come down.


----------



## Harold_V

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Bada Bing 38g.
> 
> Looks like crap!
> Tastes like crap!
> Must be CRAP!
> 
> Maybe my standards are too high. 8)


Well done!
If you don't mind a comment (not being critical of your results), the rather fine uneven surface of the button is an indicator that the gold isn't quite pure. It's hard for me to tell by the color, considering the picture appears to have a rather yellow background. 

When gold is ultra pure, it will generally freeze with a broad crystalline pattern, with the areas within the pattern quite shiny. It takes very little contamination to cause it to form a tight, somewhat frosty pattern such as yours displays. Take note that it didn't form a deep pipe, either. That's another good indicator.

Harold


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Harold_V said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bada Bing 38g.
> 
> Looks like crap!
> Tastes like crap!
> Must be CRAP!
> 
> Maybe my standards are too high. 8)
> 
> 
> 
> Well done!
> If you don't mind a comment (not being critical of your results), the rather fine uneven surface of the button is an indicator that the gold isn't quite pure. It's hard for me to tell by the color, considering the picture appears to have a rather yellow background.
> 
> When gold is ultra pure, it will generally freeze with a broad crystalline pattern, with the areas within the pattern quite shiny. It takes very little contamination to cause it to form a tight, somewhat frosty pattern such as yours displays. Take note that it didn't form a deep pipe, either. That's another good indicator.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...


Thank you Harold that means a lot coming from you. 

I just can't seem to catch the true color of the thing, it's the lighting. I have tried under a flouresent light and under regular incandesent light but I just can't get it. It is actually a lot lighter in color than the picture shows. It wouldn't surprise me with my luck and experience that I have some contaminant in there, even tho I washed & boiled it to death. 

It dosen't have a pipe because I kept heating it till it had become some what solid before the flux held it in the crucible I dumped it in water. 

You would have gotten a big laugh out of watching me. I melted 3 buttons with no color change in the flux, then I melted them all together and when I went to dump it in the water I droped the dish and the gold on my stainless bucket. ROFL 8) Came out as flaked glob.. :idea: No problem I grabbed another dish fluxed it and melted again.

What sucked was I took my criucible and put it in my oven at 200F for about 45 min and then up to 300F and then 500F. And my crucible still had cracks in it. But it held together even with it dumped in water the temperatur shock didn't do any more damage to it. But I woud guess I will only have 1 more use out of it till the crack is too big for it to be used. And my 2nd one cracked also so I have 1 good one left. Guess I will be getting some more from Steve and building a hot box to keep them in.

And I want to thank everyone here on the forum with their posts and questions that helped in getting to this milestone point.

And especially Steve for his paitence with all my dumb PM's.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Natural light seems to be the best.


----------



## machiavelli976

nice ! should have almost one inch diameter right!?


----------



## Barren Realms 007

machiavelli976 said:


> nice ! should have almost one inch diameter right!?



Yep pretty close to that. 8)


----------



## machiavelli976

still easy to be swallowed. the best safe is your belly !


----------



## Barren Realms 007

machiavelli976 said:


> still easy to be swallowed. the best safe is your belly !



ROFL, that would be worse than passing a kiddney stone I bet.


----------



## machiavelli976

damn right !further more the RECOVERY could be hazardous. might crack the toilet bottom ! did i say that!?


----------



## glorycloud

Nice! 

38 grams of gleaming gold processed and refined from start to finish. That must make a man proud. 8)


----------



## Barren Realms 007

glorycloud said:


> Nice!
> 
> 38 grams of gleaming gold processed and refined from start to finish. That must make a man proud. 8)



Very much so it does. And the knowledge that the next one will not take as much effort and time. 8)


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Lost treasures..... 8) 

One of the resons I got involved in recovering PM's. Back bout 12 yrears ago my dad was heavy into yard sales and auctions. I dropped by his house one afternoon and he showed me a piece of metal. Roughly 2"x2"x3/8" gold plated, not shiney gold, dull gold, thick gold from what I have learned here on the forum. Well he had gotten the piece of metal from a guy that did salvage work and had a warehouse that he sold salvaged items out of. This guy had 8 gaylord boxes full of these. 

I took the piece to a couple of jewlers and not of them would tell me anything about them. Now I know it was because they didn't know how to recover the PM's. 

Well weeks later my dad told me that the boxes had found a buyer and that the returnon the PM's to the original guy was a cool $2,000,000.00. 8) 

We could have bought all 8 boxes for $20,000.00. :evil: 

How much do you think the refiner made??? :!: 

_*Knowledge is power*_


----------



## kssurplus

Barren

Sounds like you had the pot o gold at the end of rainbow and did'nt know it.

I have been researching all of my gold recycle stuff with a magnet since most of you seem to want to stay away from it in the process.
Those gold covered I.C.'s in my previous pictures turned out to have steel or magnetic legs etc. along with some small pins I have.
So would you recommend dumping these or wait till I get some more experience.
As you remember I am another rookie.
I did get some very nice clean gold pins that will probably be my first attempt at all this.

Steve P.


----------



## jimdoc

kssurplus said:


> Barren
> 
> Sounds like you had the pot o gold at the end of rainbow and did'nt know it.
> 
> I have been researching all of my gold recycle stuff with a magnet since most of you seem to want to stay away from it in the process.
> Those gold covered I.C.'s in my previous pictures turned out to have steel or magnetic legs etc. along with some small pins I have.
> So would you recommend dumping these or wait till I get some more experience.
> As you remember I am another rookie.
> I did get some very nice clean gold pins that will probably be my first attempt at all this.
> 
> Steve P.



Gold plating is usually over a layer of nickel,and will be slightly magnetic if you are using a strong magnet.If it really jumps to the magnet you probably have steel,if it clings weakly it may just be the layer of nickel under the gold.Don't discount everything with a magnet.

Jim


----------



## kssurplus

Magnet

Ok I did see some were fairly strong and some were much weaker.

Well it's just when I do start I would not want to mess up to bad the first batch.
I also study Steve's video's a lot and try to digest as much as possible.
Thanks


----------



## jimdoc

Just do your homework so you know how to process what you have.And keep all your material sorted in lots of the same items.
Save up until you have enough of each type to process.That seems to be the newer members main mistake,by being impatient and throwing a bunch of mixed items together and getting a mess.You can't go wrong by saving up all the material you can get, while learning on the forum.

Jim


----------



## Barren Realms 007

kssurplus said:


> Barren
> 
> Sounds like you had the pot o gold at the end of rainbow and did'nt know it.
> 
> I have been researching all of my gold recycle stuff with a magnet since most of you seem to want to stay away from it in the process.
> Those gold covered I.C.'s in my previous pictures turned out to have steel or magnetic legs etc. along with some small pins I have.
> So would you recommend dumping these or wait till I get some more experience.
> As you remember I am another rookie.
> I did get some very nice clean gold pins that will probably be my first attempt at all this.
> 
> Steve P.



We knew kind of what was there at the time we just didn't have the knowledge to bring it all together.

Seperate you magnetic from non magnetic. Have seperate batches that have solder and ones that don't you might want to try a cell at some point with clean material.

Don't dump anything. Keep it for your learning experience, Each lot you do will teach you important stuff till you do things 2nd nature without thinking. 

Learn your processes and what they are supposed to do. Do different batches and find out what material has difficulties that you will run into. Just when you think you know what is going to happen a gremlin will come out and bite you in the ass. But that is how you learn. Don't be afraid to make mistakes because they are going to happen. It just what you do when they happen that determins what direction you will go. 

And have paitence.

8)


----------



## kssurplus

That's kinda what I was thinkin to separate the different grades of purity.
I just about have all the stuff for a cell .
I have some 20kt small connectors but they have a drawback in that they had the mini coax cable cut off at the end of the connector.
I am not sure of the composition of the small amount of coax inside them.
What would be a good way to prepare them, maybe to torch them to burn off the unwanted junk and then recover the gold?
Well eventually we will solve these problems in our head first.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

A proposition.

Since no one realy wants to post results or yields. I am willing to go out on a limb and see what can be complished.

I have roughly 150 pentium pro's coming in to process, along with aprox 1700 other ceramic cpu's. I'm willing to run tests for yields on this material and possibly put some myths to sleep. Ok stop laughing I can pull this off but I still have my dunce hat close :roll: . 

For the pentium pros 3 processes
1. Cell & HCL/Clorox
2. HCL/Clorox
3. Peroxide/Nitric

Ceramic 2 processes
1. HCL/peroxide
2. Nitric

At the end if I can acomplish this I will have a guessing game with buttons posted. Exact weight must be guessed for all the forum to find the results possibly. Only one guess per person no matter how many accounts you have :lol: . One other person will be given the final results and that will be Steve that way he can keep me honest :twisted: . Remember I have another company to run so this might get put on hold for a little bit in the middle of the project. I am willing to post video and pictures as time allows to document this. This will all be posted here in this thread. I might also offer a small button for the winner but no promise. The chips start ariving this week. Anybody wanting to participate must say so before Sunday at midnight 12:00 July 3rd 2010.

I'm lookin for a couple of things.

1. Magnetic stirir with bars and heated 6" to 9" top
2. I would like to start getting some lab glass to work with.

Not looking for these items for free. I just hate flebay and hate too see stuff not used so dust off your shelves. Oh and I'm a cheap skate.

Ideas comment's welcome.

Edit: 
Also would be interested in a diffrent scale since mine only reads in grams. 2 decimal places maybe three.


----------



## lazersteve

I have three heated stirrers arriving tomorrow or early next week. I may be able to help there if they are all in good shape.

I'll PM you when I get them in my hands.

Glassware is easy to come by on Ebay. Look for lots of 4 to 6 beakers, thick walled, and new in the box. You'll need several of each of these sizes 100 mL, 500-600 mL, 1L, 2L, at least one 4L wouldn't hurt if you can find one for cheap. Glass funnels filter papers, and test tubes are handy too, as well as a few wide mouth Erlenmeyer flasks, and also vacuum flasks if you are set up with a good pump.

Steve


----------



## Barren Realms 007

kssurplus said:


> That's kinda what I was thinkin to separate the different grades of purity.
> I just about have all the stuff for a cell .
> I have some 20kt small connectors but they have a drawback in that they had the mini coax cable cut off at the end of the connector.
> I am not sure of the composition of the small amount of coax inside them.
> What would be a good way to prepare them, maybe to torch them to burn off the unwanted junk and then recover the gold?
> Well eventually we will solve these problems in our head first.



It's not realy grades of purity it is more of different types of metals and with or with out solder. You have to learn what your metals are and what it takes to process each kind and the drawbacks of each one.

If part of the coax cable is still in the connector you will be dealing with the following possibly. The center conductor should be copper, then there is an insulating material between that and the braided wire use for grounding and to reduce RF interference I think then the plastic outer sheathing. Roasting these first to remove the combustible parts and then that should free up the braided wire to be seperated, this could be copper, stainless steel or just steel. that leaves you with the center copper core and the plated connector to deal with. At that point I would look at running them thru a cell.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

lazersteve said:


> I have three heated stirrers arriving tomorrow or early next week. I may be able to help there if they are all in good shape.
> 
> I'll PM you when I get them in my hands.
> 
> Glassware is easy to come by on Ebay. Look for lots of 4 to 6 beakers, thick walled, and new in the box. You'll need several of each of these sizes 100 mL, 500-600 mL, 1L, 2L, at least one 4L wouldn't hurt if you can find one for cheap. Glass funnels filter papers, and test tubes are handy too, as well as a few wide mouth Erlenmeyer flasks, and also vacuum flasks if you are set up with a good pump.
> 
> Steve



Yea let me know about the stirrer when they arrive. I need to order some stuff from you this week any way possibly.

I'll probably end up going to flebay just thought I might find what some of the memeber are not using.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

I found a couple of new toys to play with this morning. 14K plated, the plateing is pealing off on the bottom.


----------



## kssurplus

Barren

You are a gluten for punishment.
I certainly will be interested in watching your progress on all those cpu's for sure.

I love getting sugestions on how to get a project started and done.
At my age Ihave to digest something several times to understand but it's coming with the patience of all here.

Those 2 toys look like a good candidate.
Steve P


----------



## copperkid_18

my guess is .35 grams for the pp's. didn't know where to put this so I put it here.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

I thought this looked neat. Speciatly metals.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=5A6yOk7Jt7c&feature=channel[/youtube]


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Hey Steve,

The hot plate is being broken in tonight. I didn't get any stir sticks, I made a couple out of PVC tubing, hard drive magnet and filled the tube with silicone and let it cure. They seem to work fine. 

I appreciate that very much.


----------



## lazersteve

I knew it would be just fine as I spent a few days 'breaking it in' myself before you got it!

I disassembled it, checked the electronics, connections, and did a thorough cleaning on it before I sent it to you.

I'm glad you are happy with it, I know I love the two I have.

Steve


----------



## Barren Realms 007

The hot plate did a great job. The stir sticks I made didn't. Guess I'll go buy some.

Thanks again Steve.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

More fun in the sun. 8)


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Bada Bing 38g.
> 
> Looks like crap!
> Tastes like crap!
> Must be CRAP!
> 
> Maybe my standards are too high. 8)
> 
> 
> 
> And the wife wanted to play with it when I showed it to her and she got a tight grip on it but I was able to pry it from her hands.



Results are in on the button 99.51. Thanks Fournines


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Here is some home made nitric that is being surpressed by ethylene glycol and hydrogen peroxide. It has boiled over twice in the container so it is very active and has the strength to work it's majic. It was made with sodium nitrate. Hope you enjoy.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkhadL_tAIA[/youtube]


----------



## Barren Realms 007

HIHO HIHO it's off to work we go...

The stuff out there folks you just have to go looking for it.

Make a decision, spend a lot of time pulling pins or invest and profit on volume.

Maybe I should put this on Ebay! :idea: 

Not..What fun would that be.




philddreamer where have you gone, no word from you in a week, did you get your 5th yet?


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Here you go Steve.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8JuqC6SNV4[/youtube]


----------



## goldsilverpro

BR,

Is that a battery jar? It's hard to tell, but the one in the second video looks large enough to be one. If so, have you broken one yet? When I first started in this, most of the refiners used 5 gal or 7.5 gal battery jars for AR. I've seen a lot of them break. The glass on the bottom is of very uneven thickness. After a few heat cycles, they can just, all of a sudden, on their own, crack on the bottom. I haven't used one since. It takes a long time to clean all that gold solution off the floor and you never get it all.

Most refiners I knew, back then, used large gas fired restaurant grills to heat these jars. To prevent banging the jars, they covered the grills with asbestos cloth, about 1/8" - 3/16" thick. One place used Ti steam tables (they looked like a long flat radiators) for heating. To catch the AR, when the jars inevitably broke, they set the jars in large boxes made of about 1/4" sheet lead.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

goldsilverpro said:


> BR,
> 
> Is that a battery jar? It's hard to tell, but the one in the second video looks large enough to be one. If so, have you broken one yet? When I first started in this, most of the refiners used 5 gal or 7.5 gal battery jars for AR. I've seen a lot of them break. The glass on the bottom is of very uneven thickness. After a few heat cycles, they can just, all of a sudden, on their own, crack on the bottom. I haven't used one since. It takes a long time to clean all that gold solution off the floor and you never get it all.
> 
> Most refiners, then, used large gas fired restaurant grills to heat these jars. To prevent banging the jars, they covered the grills with asbestos cloth, about 1/8" - 3/16" thick. One place used Ti steam tables (they looked like a long flat radiators) for heating. To catch the AR, when the jars inevitably broke, they set the jars in large boxes made of about 1/4" sheet lead.



I have never herd of a battery jar, but yes it sounds like the same thing. I got the thing at wal mart. I have not had one break doing this in it yet. But I have had one break while making nitric acid on a hot plate, so yes I am aware of the problem. I alway have the contaier in a plastic bucket when processing just in case something happens. I don't like putting these thru heat changes just because of your statement. But until I can get some large flasks that is all I have to use. I guess I could get some pyrex dishes that would do a better job. I'll look around more and see what I can find to work better.

Thank you for your input. I alway like it when you chime in on my post's.


----------



## butcher

Barren look into using a canning pikle jar in a sand bath. the canning glass is more uniform, a sand bath is much safer for protecting the glass from thermal shock, better yet a large lab beaker in sand bath, it would be a shame to loose that gold.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

butcher said:


> Barren look into using a canning pikle jar in a sand bath. the canning glass is more uniform, a sand bath is much safer for protecting the glass from thermal shock, better yet a large lab beaker in sand bath, it would be a shame to loose that gold.



Thanks butcher, I'm getting there. You have to crawl before you can walk. One of these day I will show stuff like that in beaker's. The way it should be done.

I need to point something out. I only use these jars for nitric. Any thing I use AP on is done in plastic buckets. And any heating I have to do I use coffee pot's. 

Any body have access to philddreamer. Over a week and not a peep.


----------



## patnor1011

Now tell me what type of gloves you used in that video of yours.... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 
Looks like they are made from pure human skin... Did you forget something or I need to check up with optician?
lol


----------



## Barren Realms 007

patnor1011 said:


> Now tell me what type of gloves you used in that video of yours.... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
> Looks like they are made from pure human skin... Did you forget something or I need to check up with optician?
> lol



Nope you did not miss anything. 

No gloves, no glasses, no apron, no rubber boots. 

If I am just moving something round I don't worry too much. 

And no chemical burns in years. Let them try and lift a finger print off my crime scene. 8) 

However after so many years of working with acids I always wash my hands regularly. When I touch something or even get around these things. 

I do wear glasses at times. And I wear gloves when I am working with the cell, hot nitric, hot sulfuric, 32% peroxide or going to mixing a lot up.

_*Don't do as I do people. *_

Use the proper safety equipment as requested by the forum.

I have worked around these acids for many many many years. And I don't hesitate to go wash something if I feel the reaction of acid on the skin. You get supper sensitive to the feel of this stuff after years and can tell pretty quick when you need to do something.

You wan to see fun, look at an olympic size swimming pool, imagine 4 crews in the bottom pouring HCL on the concrete walls and floor to prepare for new paint. You think mixing a new batch of HCL/peroxide is tough. ROFLMAO :lol: :lol: 

I have been in many situations that could have turned for the worse.

You want to see pain, we use to make zinc chloride at a factory I worked at. You could try to wear rubber gloves, but try and take a 25 hp pump and motor out and see what is left of the gloves. It got to be we just toughed it out and did the job. Now if any of you don't know when you work with this with a high zinc level if you have a cut and the zinc gets in the cut and set up, it sets up like concrete. Only way to correct the cut for it to heal it to tear the scab off and dig out the area. Can we say fun.

_*Chance favors the prepared.*_


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Unacceptable comments removed by Harold



49.85g


----------



## samuel-a

that is beautiful Mr G.
so beautiful that had to remove your comment :?: :mrgreen:


----------



## Barren Realms 007

samuel-a said:


> that is beautiful Mr G.
> so beautiful that had to remove your comment :?: :mrgreen:




ROFL :twisted: I had not seen that he had removed the comment's. I should have used crap insted. 8) 

Sorry about that Harold.

Other's coming just around the corner.


----------



## butcher

I did not like the comments on the forum, they did not offend me, I just thought it was not good for the forum.

But I do love to see that pretty button, great job! Hope you start pooping many of them out.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

butcher said:


> I did not like the comments on the forum, they did not offend me, I just thought it was not good for the forum.
> 
> But I do love to see that pretty button, great job! Hope you start pooping many of them out.



My dunce hat fell over my eyes and I had a brain fart. I appologize. 8) 

And their coming.


----------



## Harold_V

butcher said:


> I did not like the comments on the forum, they did not offend me, I just thought it was not good for the forum.


That's exactly the point. I expect that readers, here, will behave as responsible adults. 

This forum is unique in that you can learn processes that have been jealously guarded for years. Don't screw up a good thing by lowering the bar. 

I will resist, to the best of my ability, posts that detract from proper decorum. If you wouldn't think of saying it in front of your mother or young children (or in church), *don't say it on the board. *
When you post on this forum, do so with proper language, paying careful attention to what you say, and how you say it. Also, do not post moronic comments that have no basis in fact. I can't think of much that would degrade the quality of this board faster. We must maintain a high level of credibility in order to survive. 

Harold


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Harold_V said:


> butcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not like the comments on the forum, they did not offend me, I just thought it was not good for the forum.
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly the point. I expect that readers, here, will behave as responsible adults.
> 
> This forum is unique in that you can learn processes that have been jealously guarded for years. Don't screw up a good thing by lowering the bar.
> 
> I will resist, to the best of my ability, posts that detract from proper decorum. If you wouldn't think of saying it in front of your mother or young children (or in church), *don't say it on the board. *
> When you post on this forum, do so with proper language, paying careful attention to what you say, and how you say it. Also, do not post moronic comments that have no basis in fact. I can't think of much that would degrade the quality of this board faster. We must maintain a high level of credibility in order to survive.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...


I generaly try to do that I wasn't thinking when I posted that tho.Thank you for taking it out.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Here is 67.65g


----------



## goldenchild

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Unacceptable comments removed by Harold
> 
> 
> 
> 49.85g



This button is liquid. 8)


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Here is a question, quandry whatever that needs some clarification if possible.

I started off with home made nitric solution and put some chips in that all of the gold had not been dissolved from. 

The chips had been run in AP and had been washed scrubbed and all loose material removed before they were put into the nitric. There was enough residual HCL that AR was made and the gold dissolved. So therefore I continued on this route and added more chips and small additions of HCL. This was over a period of about 3 weeks time. After all was done I dropped the gold with SMB with no problems.

And yes this was still a nitric rich solution because I had slight brown fumes in the container just before I emptied it.

Why is it always suggested to remove the nitric from a solution to drop your gold. It appears that it dosen't matter which acid is used up as long as there in not a combination of acids to make AR. This is not the first time I dropped gold from a solution like this.

Even Harold or GSP has made a comment about using a solution of nitric with 5% HCL in it for one of thier process but more info was never given or I never found it on what that solution was used for.


----------



## butcher

we are precipitating gold chloride not gold nitrate. the nitric just oxidizes the gold so it will form a chloride gold salt, as far as I know the gold does not form nitrate salts, as long as the oxidizer (nitric or Hno2 in this instance) is present it will keep gold chloride in solution.

if I had that bowl of chips, I would grind them to powder and get the last drop.


----------



## qst42know

Can you trust a stannous test when working backwards like this?

Have you tried a drop with copper on some of this left over solution?


----------



## Barren Realms 007

butcher said:


> we are precipitating gold chloride not gold nitrate. the nitric just oxidizes the gold so it will form a chloride gold salt, as far as I know the gold does not form nitrate salts, as long as the oxidizer (nitric or Hno2 in this instance) is present it will keep gold chloride in solution.
> 
> if I had that bowl of chips, I would grind them to powder and get the last drop.



When I get my ball mill built I will rum the chips thru it. 

Someone decided thay wanted my 3 water heater tanks I had in front of my shop more than I did and stole them about 6 weeks ago :evil: .

I get what you are saying about precipitating the chloride vs the nitrate. And I understand that it is not supposed to form a nitrate salt. As far as I know there is no Hno2 in the solution. I have let the solution set with gold bearing chip to make sure no rection or disolving took place bofore adding any more HCL. But I'm pretty sure that there is nitric in the solution, the solution was gently heated to around 120-140F for a couple of days at the end with the top on it. And I did get some brown fumes.

I'm trying to possibly find out why I was able to do this. I have had this happen a couple of other times and dropped gold out of the solution.


----------



## qst42know

It would seen there is a gold nitrate. I found this formula on the web.

H[Au(NO3)3)4]

However I cannot confirm you can form a gold nitrate by your method.

I suspect you still formed the more familliar gold chloride but didn't free any chlorides from the base metals with the addition of SMB in this case. It may not be the case with all base metals.

Anything of value cement with copper from your solution?


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Does it tell you how to drop the gold in that information?

There were very little base metals in the solution before I added some of the Pentium Pro's I had laying around. The color was a bright yellow till then and tested positive for gold with stannous. There were no pins on any of this material this was done as a cleanup solution.

I haven't put any copper in it yet. That was my next step. I have a 12' piece of 4" K pipe that I have been meaning to cut up for plates to use but haven't gotten around to it. I will get it done tomorrow possibly and get it in the solution and see what it pulls out and post about it this weekend or before if anything is determined.


----------



## qst42know

> Does it tell you how to drop the gold in that information?



No, it wasn't a how to sort of post. It was a question of what the proper formula was for gold nitrate. I just googled enough to see the compound existed. I do know not all chemical compounds can be made by wet methods or by simple direct combining of elements. True chemistry is well above my pay grade. 

Perhaps one of the real chemists on the forum will shed some light?


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Thank for the help we will see what others can contribute and maybe get something more concrete.


----------



## butcher

Barren, I believe you already know this, if you had acidic liquid and nitric in solution you will have HNO2 nitrous acid, but if you did not have liquid, you are correct you could not have nitrous, as far as I understand it only exists in solution, 
Remember acid plus metals equal salts of that metal and acid.
You can form nitrate salts from nitric acid and a base metal, 
the salts from the nitrous acid are nitrites, say you have copper nitrate dry powder, adding any hydrogen from an acid like HCL will revive these salts, and with chloride you can form aqua regia, even if the aqua regia is not the same formula we normally use 4:1 ratio, it will still attack gold and other metals, sometimes they make an aqua regia with mostly nitric as oxidizer for etching metals that passivate easily, as the high nitric content helps to bubble off the passivated layer.
Salts of metals can also form from chlorides from the hydrochloric acid. 
also I know you understand most all of this, but for others here is why incineration when say using a chloride to recover then drying the material, and wanting to remove base metal with nitric and not dissolve gold, incineration will decompose the chloride salt, driving off the chlorine as gas (and oxidize base metals and burn off carbon-ous materials and oils), so when nitric is added the gold will not dissolve as we have no chlorides from the salts in with our nitric.
But then again I may not be following or understanding what you are asking very well?


----------



## g_axelsson

This is an interesting thread. I've never thought really hard on how to make gold nitrate before but this thread made me think about it.

I guess that one way to make gold nitrate is to mix the right amounts of gold chloride and silver nitrate in water. The AgCl will drop out of solution and it would be easy to filter out a very pure gold nitrate water solution.

I don't have the time to work out the chemical formula and procedure right now so I leave it as an idea on the forum.
(Gold + AR -> heat to drive off HCl and create Au2Cl6 -> mix with water and silver nitrate -> filter -> solution ready)

Lou or someone else who is a chemist, is there any reason why this wouldn't work?

/Göran


----------



## Barren Realms 007

New picture.
I forgot the one that was 42.3g oh well.

This one is 80.7g

Hope you enjoy.


----------



## qst42know

Is this from your backwards nitric drop?

I haven't melted enough gold to say with certainty but this doesn't have the look of high purity. Is it possible some silver followed the gold?


----------



## Barren Realms 007

4.7g of it was from that drop. I melted it by itself and it had a silvery top on it. I had used some sodium nitrate with it when I melted it along with some flux. When I melted them together there was a brown top that formed. I boiled it in sulfuric for a while and then rubbed off the top coat. It is going to be dirty It was only refined once.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

butcher said:


> Barren, I believe you already know this, if you had acidic liquid and nitric in solution you will have HNO2 nitrous acid, but if you did not have liquid, you are correct you could not have nitrous, as far as I understand it only exists in solution,
> Remember acid plus metals equal salts of that metal and acid.
> You can form nitrate salts from nitric acid and a base metal,
> the salts from the nitrous acid are nitrites, say you have copper nitrate dry powder, adding any hydrogen from an acid like HCL will revive these salts, and with chloride you can form aqua regia, even if the aqua regia is not the same formula we normally use 4:1 ratio, it will still attack gold and other metals, sometimes they make an aqua regia with mostly nitric as oxidizer for etching metals that passivate easily, as the high nitric content helps to bubble off the passivated layer.
> Salts of metals can also form from chlorides from the hydrochloric acid.
> also I know you understand most all of this, but for others here is why incineration when say using a chloride to recover then drying the material, and wanting to remove base metal with nitric and not dissolve gold, incineration will decompose the chloride salt, driving off the chlorine as gas (and oxidize base metals and burn off carbon-ous materials and oils), so when nitric is added the gold will not dissolve as we have no chlorides from the salts in with our nitric.
> But then again I may not be following or understanding what you are asking very well?



Hi butcher,

Yep I understand what you are saying. 

It had started as a home made nitric solution. There just happen to be enough HCL in the crevices of the chips to form AR. I was just trying to remove traces of silver and what base metal might be under some caps where small areas of gold had been left. It didn't bother me that it had formed AR and dissolved the remining gold. That was the path I was headed towards any way. I added a couple of chips a the end and made sure no more gold dissolved. That way I made sure that my HCL was used up but I still had a nitric rich solution. I had this happen before and was able to drop the gold, that was why I continued down the path.

I'm trying to understand why this can be accomplished when it goes aginst what is recomended here on the forum.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Barren Realms 007 said:


> New picture.
> I forgot the one that was 42.3g oh well.
> 
> This one is 80.7g
> 
> Hope you enjoy.




.9723 Fine


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Here is 67.65g



Above .9900 fine


----------



## Barren Realms 007

More fun. 8)


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Paitence has it's place in the scheme of life.
These were all produced using poor mans AR. Then boiled in water a couple of times and a shorth wash in HCL then water again and then melted. Purity runs .9915 or higher on all the buttons. Hope you enjoy the pictures.


----------



## dtectr

BR007 - how long did it take to accumulate that pile? :mrgreen: :twisted:


----------



## Anonymous

Just a few weeks,he has a supplier.However he does have a large collection of computers to dismantle and process still.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

dtectr said:



> BR007 - how long did it take to accumulate that pile? :mrgreen: :twisted:



Each picture or set of pictures showing material is a load of material that was delivered to be processed.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

I have a question, I went to a class on lead safety today and they had a vial with a liquid on one side and a powder on the other side. When you crush the vial the 2 items mix and you swab the painted area. I was told if there is lead present the color will turn pink or red. I am wanting to know what the fluid and the powder might be. Any ideas on what this test kit contains?


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Postive test for AU inside (10) 186 chip's before foils are added.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Update:

Don't trust your distilled water. 

I washed some gold with nitric and distilled water and put it on a hot plate for coffee maker. Nothing else had been added to the beaker and the gold had been washed 3 times with distilled water before the nitric had been added. The old had been dried on the hot plate before this was done. NO HCL HAS COME CLOSE TO THIS. The nitric and distilled water dissolved a small amount of the gold and the solution tested positive for this. The solution was poured into another beaker and the gold powder was washed with distilled water into the 2nd beaker. This morning temperature was 9F outside. I added SMB and put the solution on the hot plate and percipitated the gold out. This is the 4th or 5th time I have done this. The other times I couldn't e sure contaminat of HCL could not be the culprit but this time I am 100% sure of this.

So for everyone that says you can not drop gold out of nitric with SMB I say BULL CRAP.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Fun stuff. Gold can be found almost any where. This proves that gold can be found anywhere.


----------



## eeTHr

Barren---

Were you using home made nitric?


----------



## Barren Realms 007

eeTHr said:


> Barren---
> 
> Were you using home made nitric?



Yep, but I haven't had this happen except with just nitric. Only when I have used a certain Mfg. distilled water. I'm either going to stop using thier water or start boiling it before I use thier's.


----------



## eeTHr

Barren---

You already know that you can end up with chlorides in home made nitric, right?

I would think that for there to be enough in water, to dissolve any Au, you would be able to smell it.

:?:


----------



## Barren Realms 007

eeTHr said:


> Barren---
> 
> You already know that you can end up with chlorides in home made nitric, right?
> 
> I would think that for there to be enough in water, to dissolve any Au, you would be able to smell it.
> 
> :?:



Yea I know. That wasn't the jest of the post any way. I still want one of the experts to explain why I can drop the gold out of the nitric. I never can get an answer on that one. I guess I'm going to have to make a video of it and post it some day to get an answer. 8)


----------



## 4metals

> I still want one of the experts to explain why I can drop the gold out of the nitric. I never can get an answer on that one.



I think you mean can't drop the gold. 

The reason you cannot drop the gold until the nitric is gone is because the nitric continues to regenerate Chlorine molecules from the HCl which will re-dissolve the gold. Actually the gold does drop and redissolve and cause the red fuming to continue. When all of the nitric is exhausted, the gold will drop. It's just using an excess of chemical to kill off the nitric by reacting with the gold that has just dropped from solution. 

Often larger refiners will gas with SO2. The reaction often blows red fume while gold is being dropped and redissolved. A waste of SO2 but it is done often.


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## Barren Realms 007

4metals said:


> I still want one of the experts to explain why I can drop the gold out of the nitric. I never can get an answer on that one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you mean can't drop the gold.
> 
> The reason you cannot drop the gold until the nitric is gone is because the nitric continues to regenerate Chlorine molecules from the HCl which will re-dissolve the gold. Actually the gold does drop and redissolve and cause the red fuming to continue. When all of the nitric is exhausted, the gold will drop. It's just using an excess of chemical to kill off the nitric by reacting with the gold that has just dropped from solution.
> 
> Often larger refiners will gas with SO2. The reaction often blows red fume while gold is being dropped and redissolved. A waste of SO2 but it is done often.
Click to expand...


NO HCL was used. The gold was dropped from nitric. I keep asking this and have never gotten an answer why this is possible. The only chlorine could have come from the distilled water.


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## lazersteve

The reason for removing nitric is not because the gold won't precipitate from nitric solutions, but because other metals can co-precipitate from nitric solutions when SO2 or SMB is used. Bottom line, SMB is not a selective reducing agent in the presence of nitric (or HCl for that matter).

In order to get the highest purity from your gold, you should avoid using nitric altogether or denox your solutions before precipitating the gold. 

Here's a little chart I made to help you understand (*remember you saw this here first!*):




and a PDF of the chart (since the image is foggy):
PDF of Chart

The various types of solutions are listed across the top, mixtures will give mixed results. The reducing agents are listed down the left side. One important reagent to note is copper I chloride, it can be troublesome when SO2, Au, and Pd are in the same solution, also notice that SO2 will form CuCl in chloride solution containing dissolved copper.

The green boxes in the center area of the chart are the optimal combinations of solution and reducing agents. The red boxes are areas of concern where multiple, or alternate precipitates can form. Notice the nitrate column has lots of red. Acetylene is an explosive gas and should not be used as a reducing agent for Pd.

I have intentionally omitted other reducing agents. Some reducing agents not shown are merely salts of the ones listed (eg: ammonium oxalate, sodium meta-bisulfite).

Hopefully the chart will make things clearer for you, regardless of how you get your metals into solution.

It all comes down to how clean do you want your precipitated metals. Controlling the solution they are precipitated from will lead you to a purer product.

Here's a link to a brief descripition of how to read the chart:

Reading the Chart

Steve


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## Barren Realms 007

Thanks for the chart Steve. 

Just a note it was not my intention to disslove the gold in the nitric I have. I was doing a wash procedure on some product I had. 

It is a situation that needs to be addressed about the possaility of gold dissolving in nitric without HCL or other chlorines present so that other members can be aware that it is a possability and that if it does happen that there is a route for them to take to recover thier values. 

It is something I have tried to have addressed in this thread more than once. 

No where on the forum can I remember reading that you can recover gold in a nitrate solution with SMB or SO2. I felt this needed to be addressed so others would be aware of it. And have a plan of action for it. Other than just cementing all of it with copper and starting over.

But then again maybe I am just thick headed.


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## lazersteve

I've treated many ounces of gold with nitric using inquartation and have never found even a trace of gold dissolved in the resulting silver nitrate.

I avoid using nitric acid in my gold clean up process as it can react with chlorides trapped in the sponge structure of the gold and form AR dissolving some of the gold. 

There are also other sources of stray chlorides such as dirty glassware, or improperly washed glassware, and stir rods or utensils. Chlorine can actually get trapped in the glass structure of beakers. A good rinse with distilled water before using can help alleviate this.

Steve


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## Barren Realms 007

On this perticular batch I am working with the glassware was cleaned and washed throughly but not with distilled water. It was some inquirted jewlery that I had been processing. I had run only nitric and distilled water in this batch no other solutions were used in this. The solution was not boiled it only on a coffee hot plate and had been washed with ammonia prior to this happening. I had put 3 runs of nitric thru this so now I will go back and check the other solutions.

Thanks Steve


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## Irons

Barren Realms 007 said:


> On this perticular batch I am working with the glassware was cleaned and washed throughly but not with distilled water. It was some inquirted jewlery that I had been processing. I had run only nitric and distilled water in this batch no other solutions were used in this. The solution was not boiled it only on a coffee hot plate and had been washed with ammonia prior to this happening. I had put 3 runs of nitric thru this so now I will go back and check the other solutions.
> 
> Thanks Steve



Have you checked your water with Silver Nitrate to check for Chlorides? It wouldn't hurt to check your Nitric as well.

Never use Acetylene to precipitate metals. It will form highly sensitive and explosive acetylides. Some of these compounds have been used in detonator compositions.

Don't even think about it.


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## Barren Realms 007

Irons said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> On this perticular batch I am working with the glassware was cleaned and washed throughly but not with distilled water. It was some inquirted jewlery that I had been processing. I had run only nitric and distilled water in this batch no other solutions were used in this. The solution was not boiled it only on a coffee hot plate and had been washed with ammonia prior to this happening. I had put 3 runs of nitric thru this so now I will go back and check the other solutions.
> 
> Thanks Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you checked your water with Silver Nitrate to check for Chlorides? It wouldn't hurt to check your Nitric as well.
> 
> Never use Acetylene to precipitate metals. It will form highly sensitive and explosive acetylides. Some of these compounds have been used in detonator compositions.
> 
> Don't even think about it.
Click to expand...


I didn't think about going that route, thanks Irons. I know I was working with some silver contacts with the same 2 solution's I was getting silver chloride back a couple of weeks ago but I didn't just take some silver nitrate and put it in the water to check I just made an assumption that it was the water.


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## Barren Realms 007

Making a new filter.


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## Barren Realms 007

Here is a video of the new vacume filter setup.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZaX4i7DWEY[/youtube]


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## 4metals

Barren, a few suggestions.

The blue perforated disc you use as the bottom of the filter has holes all the way to the edge. On a Buchner funnel the holes stop about 3/8" from the edge. That provides a smooth surface for the paper to seal against the bottom and prevent liquid from leaking around and under the paper rather through the paper. 

You could get by with less holes (which tend to blow through with a good vacuum) you can put a circle of fiberglass window screen which is smaller in diameter than your hole pattern which will raise the paper just a hair off the plastic and allow it to flow better. The smooth edge is still important to seal the paper to the filter at the edges.

Otherwise, nice job.


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## Barren Realms 007

4metals said:


> Barren, a few suggestions.
> 
> The blue perforated disc you use as the bottom of the filter has holes all the way to the edge. On a Buchner funnel the holes stop about 3/8" from the edge. That provides a smooth surface for the paper to seal against the bottom and prevent liquid from leaking around and under the paper rather through the paper.
> 
> You could get by with less holes (which tend to blow through with a good vacuum) you can put a circle of fiberglass window screen which is smaller in diameter than your hole pattern which will raise the paper just a hair off the plastic and allow it to flow better. The smooth edge is still important to seal the paper to the filter at the edges.
> 
> Otherwise, nice job.



The filter papers are cut larger than the container and I have a ring that fits tightly inside the container and it presses the filter papers aginst the edge of the container to form a seal as it is all pressed down on the platic part with the holes. But I agree with you that when I build another one that is what I am going to do is keep the holes away from the edge at least 3/8 of an inch. I had already finished one run with this setup before I made the video and it filtered everything out. This was made with a new change of the filter paper. If you notice the sound on the the video, the picture I am pouring out of you can hear the ice in it and notice the frosting on the side of the container. The filter container I am pouring into also has ice in it to cool the solution.

Thank you for the advice. It is always appreciated from everyone.


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## Barren Realms 007

Another source for small silver contact point's, inside GFCI recepticals. A hammer does a good job of breaking them apart.


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## solar_plasma

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Another source for small silver contact point's, inside GFCI recepticals. A hammer does a good job of breaking them apart.



How much silver is there in them?


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## Barren Realms 007

The newest addition to the family.




Button XRF assay .9995

Here is a short video of the melting of this button.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4jjOmUrWpo[/youtube]


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## Lou

Cute!


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## Barren Realms 007

Lou said:


> Cute!




Thanks Lou. That means a lot coming from you.


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## Barren Realms 007

Here are some boards I ran and the information on them.
My understanding is they come from satellite dishes.

Starting weight of boards- 255g.
Weight after depopulated- 171g.
Number of boards- 69
Size of boards- 1.25" x 1.5"
Gold recovered- .23g (.4g /lb)

The boards were depopulated.
The boards were soaked in HCL to remove as much solder as possible.
The boards were washed a 2nd time to remove any traces of solder.
The boards were processed in poor man's AR (HCL/Sodium nitrate) till all the base metals and the gold was dissolved into solution.
A small amount of sulfamic acid was dissolved in water and added to the AR solution to remove any excess nitric.
The boards were removed from the solution and washed with water to remove traces of AR.
The wash water was added to the original solution of AR.
The pregnant solution had ice added to it to double its volume.
I took a funnel and made a charmin plug for the neck, 3 coffee filters were folded into quarters and placed in the funnel.
The funnel was placed into a container, crushed ice was added to the funnel and the AR solution was filtered.
2g of SMB was dissolved into water and then added to the filtered solution and stirred vigourously.
The gold was allowed to settle over night and the solution was siphoned off the next day.
The powder was then washed 3 times in boiling water, 3 times in HCL and 3 times in boiling water.
Final cleaned gold powder in the picture.


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## MarcoP

Barren Realms 007 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/edit?video_id=e4jjOmUrWpo&video_referrer=watch


Good looking one but the link it's wrong...


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## Barren Realms 007

MarcoP said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/edit?video_id=e4jjOmUrWpo&video_referrer=watch
> 
> 
> 
> Good looking one but the link it's wrong...
Click to expand...


Thank you MarcoP I fixed it.


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## Barren Realms 007

I have been asked about removing the die's on fiber chip's like P-4 Heat sinks. This container of top's was soaked in HCL for about a day and a half in hot HCL to remover the dies. After they are dried out they can be run in a sulphuric cell to remove the gold plating. As you can see from the pictures some of the gold plating started coming off the top's. Hope this help's.


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## patnor1011

I cut them off with chisel or sharp blade, they are hold in place with some rubber like thing.


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## Barren Realms 007

patnor1011 said:


> I cut them off with chisel or sharp blade, they are hold in place with some rubber like thing.



I seperate them from the fiberglass the same way. The post above was for removing the silicone chip from the heat sink after the heat sink and the fiber part had been seperated. Thank's Patnor1011.


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## patnor1011

Oh I see. That one I do with heat. I save that solder. 
I put them on hotplate and when solder melt I take out Si with steel forceps and suck solder with small solder sucking pen (dunno what it is called properly).


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## Barren Realms 007

This is a video of some chip's you might run across. Hope you enjoy.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjEBWFA6afk[/youtube]


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## g_axelsson

Barren Realms 007 said:


> This is a video of some chip's you might run across. Hope you enjoy.


I hope you haven't refined the chip around 8:54, it looks like an Intel 8008 and I think it could easily fetch a few hundred dollars.

Göran


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## Barren Realms 007

g_axelsson said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a video of some chip's you might run across. Hope you enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you haven't refined the chip around 8:54, it looks like an Intel 8008 and I think it could easily fetch a few hundred dollars.
> 
> Göran
Click to expand...


Nope I sold that one.


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## g_axelsson

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Nope I sold that one.


That's the way to do it, know your scrap and what it is worth! 8) 

Göran


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## goldsilverpro

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Here are some boards I ran and the information on them.
> My understanding is they come from satellite dishes.
> 
> Starting weight of boards- 255g.
> Weight after depopulated- 171g.
> Number of boards- 69
> Size of boards- 1.25" x 1.5"
> Gold recovered- .23g (.4g /lb)
> 
> The boards were depopulated.
> The boards were soaked in HCL to remove as much solder as possible.
> The boards were washed a 2nd time to remove any traces of solder.
> The boards were processed in poor man's AR (HCL/Sodium nitrate) till all the base metals and the gold was dissolved into solution.
> A small amount of sulfamic acid was dissolved in water and added to the AR solution to remove any excess nitric.
> The boards were removed from the solution and washed with water to remove traces of AR.
> The wash water was added to the original solution of AR.
> The pregnant solution had ice added to it to double its volume.
> I took a funnel and made a charmin plug for the neck, 3 coffee filters were folded into quarters and placed in the funnel.
> The funnel was placed into a container, crushed ice was added to the funnel and the AR solution was filtered.
> 2g of SMB was dissolved into water and then added to the filtered solution and stirred vigourously.
> The gold was allowed to settle over night and the solution was siphoned off the next day.
> The powder was then washed 3 times in boiling water, 3 times in HCL and 3 times in boiling water.
> Final cleaned gold powder in the picture.


There are about 2 in2 of gold plated surface area per board or a total of 138 in2 for the 69 boards. The total yield was .23g of gold. That would be an average gold thickness of 5.27 micro". I've been saying all along that the gold on these "plane" areas of boards run about 5 micro" thick. Pretty close.


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## Barren Realms 007

goldsilverpro said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some boards I ran and the information on them.
> My understanding is they come from satellite dishes.
> 
> Starting weight of boards- 255g.
> Weight after depopulated- 171g.
> Number of boards- 69
> Size of boards- 1.25" x 1.5"
> Gold recovered- .23g (.4g /lb)
> 
> The boards were depopulated.
> The boards were soaked in HCL to remove as much solder as possible.
> The boards were washed a 2nd time to remove any traces of solder.
> The boards were processed in poor man's AR (HCL/Sodium nitrate) till all the base metals and the gold was dissolved into solution.
> A small amount of sulfamic acid was dissolved in water and added to the AR solution to remove any excess nitric.
> The boards were removed from the solution and washed with water to remove traces of AR.
> The wash water was added to the original solution of AR.
> The pregnant solution had ice added to it to double its volume.
> I took a funnel and made a charmin plug for the neck, 3 coffee filters were folded into quarters and placed in the funnel.
> The funnel was placed into a container, crushed ice was added to the funnel and the AR solution was filtered.
> 2g of SMB was dissolved into water and then added to the filtered solution and stirred vigourously.
> The gold was allowed to settle over night and the solution was siphoned off the next day.
> The powder was then washed 3 times in boiling water, 3 times in HCL and 3 times in boiling water.
> Final cleaned gold powder in the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> There are about 2 in2 of gold plated surface area per board or a total of 138 in2 for the 69 boards. The total yield was .23g of gold. That would be an average gold thickness of 5.27 micro". I've been saying all along that the gold on these "plane" areas of boards run about 5 micro" thick. Pretty close.
Click to expand...


Thank you for figuring that out I haven't taken the time to do that.


----------

