# HCL / CLOROX REACTION IN COKE BOTTLE ?



## HASENFUS2 (May 5, 2008)

I have been experimenting with mixing HCL / Clorox in a Coke bottle after filling it with various pieces of plated jewelry / 1/20th HGE stuff.
I cap the bottle after mixing the two and shake. It heats up and produces
a small amount of pressure / gas, but nothing that comes close bursting pressure. It keeps the material in constant contact with the gas / and has the added benefit of no chlorine gas is released until I am ready for it.
....
anyone see a problem with this or add some info?


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## OMG (May 6, 2008)

I like the idea of keeping the chlorine gas under pressure. It would probably force more of the chlorine to stay in the solution instead of bubbling out - allowing it to react faster.
I would just be concerned about times when you _do_ get too much chlorine in there and the bottle bursts. That would be a nasty mess all over the person shaking the bottle.
If I were you I'd make it safer somehow, because if you do it enough there is bound to be an accident at some point. So you should set it up so even if there is an accident nothing horrific happens.


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## Rag and Bone (May 6, 2008)

A small home-brew primary fermenting bucket might work well. I use a large one for AP. The lid seals and the aerator builds up quite a bit of pressure. The lid bulges out and gets tight as a drum. 

Would pressure force more chlorine into the solution?


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## Palladium (May 6, 2008)

Rag and Bone said:


> Would pressure force more chlorine into the solution?



It would keep more in solution that is already there. It would not allow it to off gas.

Not to promote what you are doing, but watch that pressure. Here's and idea that just struck me and a story to. When my boy's were little i made them what i call a soda bottle rocket. :shock:    

I took a piece of i think it was 2 in pvc pipe 4 ft long and capped one end then on the other open end i took a cap from a 2 liter pepsi bottle and drilled a small hole in the center of the cap. Then i took the cap and fiberglass epoxied it into the open end with the threads facing out. Then took a knife and shave the bottle cap threads down just a hair. On the pvc capped end i drilled a hole and threaded a quick release air chuck into the pvc. Fill the bottle about 3/4 of the way full of water( Excelerant :lol: ) i then hooked my 20 gal air compressor up to the quick connect. It had a adjustable regulator. I would then crank the pressure up starting at 0 psi until it reached about 90 psi. The cap would strip and away it would go. I mean way up there. The boy's had a ball with it.

But you know me. Yep i had to do it. Did one without shaving the cap and no water. Anybody care to guess the bursting pressure of a pepsi bottle is ? 195 psi give or take. :twisted: :twisted: sounded like a dam bomb went off. The police circled for an hour until i went out and explained to them it was Quote a science experiment. :shock: He kind of laughed and even watched as we shot a rocket off, but cautioned me about the bottle bursting thing. This was of course before 911. Who knows who would show up today.

Point is make the cap a pop off valve :wink:

Tommorow i will tell you how i took an air compressor and one of my high pressure sprayers 4,500 psi and we set up until 3 am in the morning with it 17 degrees and made snow in the yard. God, why do they have to grow up so fast.


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## Anonymous (May 6, 2008)

What do you need the air compresor for? ROFL Jack


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## Palladium (May 6, 2008)

How does it work? (The Quick Explanation): 

The science of snowmaking can be quite complex. For the majority of us, however, a simple explanation of how the different parts of a snowmaker act will suffice. Snowmaking in its simplest form is the act of turning water into small ice crystals (snow). In order to make snow from your home water supply (at about 50°F), it must be cooled very rapidly. Four things come into play to make this happen: ambient temperatures, evaporation, surface area, super cooling.

Ambient Temperature
First it must be cold outside. Even when the outdoor temperature is below freezing (32°F) snow quality can be poor or slushy. This is because much of the water is not staying or even turning into the frozen state. If you refer to our snowmaking weather chart, you will see what the ideal temperatures are for snow making.

Evaporation
The second factor is heat loss through evaporation. As some of the water evaporates from the surface of the drop a small amount of heat is removed from the drop itself. Try putting some rubbing alcohol on your arm. As it evaporates you will experience this cooling effect. Your body uses this process of evaporation to cool itself, we call it sweating. When the air is humid, there is already a lot of moisture in the air. Your sweat is less readily absorbed into the air and is unable to evaporate from your skin removing the heat with it. The same premise happens in snowmaking. When there is high humidity, the water droplet’s surface is not able to evaporate a small amount of water and remove some of the heat. Therefore, in snowmaking we must refer to the “Wet Bulb Temperature”. This is a measure of the ambient temperature that takes into account the cooling effect the humidity in the air allows for.

Surface Area
The third way we cool the water is by increasing the surface area of the drop. By increasing the surface area, we expose as much of the water to the cold as possible. The smaller we make these drops,(4500 psi pushed thru a .009 orfice ) the greater the surface area to volume ratio. We achieve the proper drop size and spray pattern through our highly specialized nozzles. And yes, the nozzles do matter! In order to optimize the size of the droplets, the distance between the drops, and the water volume flowing though the opening while employing high pressures to achieve proper distance and hang time, we engineered nozzles specifically for snowmaking.

Super Cooling
Finally we need to look at super cooling. When a compressed gas (in this case air) is allowed to rapidly expand, there is a decrease in temperature. This is known as the Joule-Thomson Effect. The conditions at the air nozzle are such that the mist coming from the nucleation nozzle is able to immediately freeze. These tiny ice crystals are then drafted into the larger upper mists which seed and snap the pre-cooled water droplets into a frozen state. The result is snow that then falls out of the mist.

Here is a site :arrow: I wish this site had been around 10 years ago. :wink: 
Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3mnsmXyvqA
http://www.snowathome.com/snowmaking_science.php


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## HASENFUS2 (May 7, 2008)

Well, I have stripped two sets of plated jewelry so far doing this and it really does not build up much pressure. As the reaction is going, I can still take my thumb and indent into the bottle with little effort. Coke bottles are designed to withstand very large amounts of high pressure and you can feel it building with your thumb. Both times I have tried this, it built up a massive amount of heat - not pressure. I also bled some of this heat (which will lead to pressure build-up) off by running a garden hose over the exterior of the bottle. Seems to do a good job both with stripping and containing the poison gas. I can't seem to find a reason why someone would do it any other way.....constantly losing gas / having to add additional clorox....?
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By the way, if you want a cheap 4th of July party favorite - pick up some
dry ice at the grocery store and save your 20oz and 2-Liter bottles.
Fill the bottle 1/3 with water and pinch the bottle in half. Break the dry ice into small pieces and fill the other half - keeping the two halves seperate by the pinch - Cap and throw - you can hear the bottle "tink...tink..tink"
while the pressure builds. They will explode once the pressure overides the bottles holding capacity and a 2-Liter sounds like 12 gauge shotgun with 3x the bass. Cheap / Easy / Loud as hell with no fire danger.
If one fails to go off, a bb gun is the best way to set it off long range.
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## markqf1 (May 7, 2008)

Ahh Yes,
These are fun at a party.
There are a couple of other advancments to make it more interesting.
I guess thats a little off topic though.

Mark


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## Palladium (May 7, 2008)

Yeah let's not get into exploding things. I was just making a reference above was all. We have had the exploding topic before and ADMIN cautioned us about it. :wink:


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## markqf1 (May 7, 2008)

Palladium,
I figured you would be in the sudan by now! :lol:


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## Palladium (May 7, 2008)

Hey, it ain't for lack of trying. You know how the red tape thing is. :lol: 

How has things been going on your cat chase. Froggy is in a rut right now and busy with family things.


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## markqf1 (May 7, 2008)

Yea,
We are all dealing with personal things from day to day.
Research goes on.
I have obtained a furnace to help expidite matters.
I sure do hate to admit that shakes was right about the heat but, Rh is a 
special animal. Some things never change!  

Mark


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## Rag and Bone (May 7, 2008)

Anyone know about using pressure in mainstream commercial refining? Is there any history of use with this technique?


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## Palladium (May 7, 2008)

Rag and Bone said:


> Anyone know about using pressure in mainstream commercial refining? Is there any history of use with this technique?



Yes. One example is Supercritical water oxidation or SCWO 

http://www.read-wca.com/chematur.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_water_oxidation

In Physics the properties of elements can be controlled by parameters. Such as heat, pressure, and voltage.


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## Froggy (May 9, 2008)

Who me? Im on top of the word!!! Anybody have a wind breaker?..... I just took a break to open my new storefront, will try to make a little dough and then I willl get back into this.......Catch you guys later. Frog


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## NobleMetalsRecovery (May 11, 2008)

Back to the original subject of this post. If this is a viable system it's worth checking out. The pressure issue can safely be dealt with. The old Chinese cast iron pressure cookers just relied on a very very heavy lid to create the needed pressure. If the pressure was too high it would just slightly raise the lid to vent.


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## Bernie Foley (May 14, 2008)

Noble metals
That is a very good way to regulate pressure.Weight is used in a lab with a cyclinder for calibrating pressure gauges.The suface area of the piston
equals 1" then 1lb resting on the piston equals 1lbper sq inch.
Thanks for reminding me of that. I'm working on an oxyhydrogen
torch for refining and need a relief valve...It will have to be vented off in this case. Have a great day! Bernie


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## Irons (May 14, 2008)

PETE bottles are fairly permeable to Hydrogen Gas. The thinner bottles actually build up pressure more slowly because the thinner material allows the Hydrogen Gas to escape at a faster rate.

There is a limit to how fast a reaction can be tolerated before the bottle bursts. Start slowly and leave plenty of head room and work up. If you squeeze a full soda bottle from the store and get an idea of the tension of a Carbon Dioxide solution in Water you can judge how your reaction is doing.

I tried it and like it just for the lack of Chlorine fumes escaping.


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