# Ap refining



## pinman (Jan 29, 2010)

Regardless of time spent. Can inquarted karat gold be refined using the ap process? If so, how long might it take?


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## Harold_V (Jan 29, 2010)

pinman said:


> Regardless of time spent. Can inquarted karat gold be refined using the ap process? If so, how long might it take?


Keeping in mind that I used commercially prepared acids when I refined, read into my comments such that you reflect my lack of experience with the ap process. 
I'm of the opinion that it won't work. 

Reason? 

The vast majority of gold is yellow. It contains silver, which would be troublesome. Inquarting with yet more silver would render the process useless. You might enjoy success if you inquarted with copper or brass. With brass, you run the risk of adding lead to the process, which is not a good idea. 

I am open to being corrected if I am wrong. Those with experience and knowledge, don't hesitate to step in.

Harold


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## 4metals (Jan 29, 2010)

Harold is right, while you may have had a chance while it was straight karat jewelry, inquarting brought the silver up to the point where nitric is your only option.


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## pinman (Jan 29, 2010)

I failed to mention that I used copper wire to inquart this material, sorry.


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## chemist (Jan 29, 2010)

Nitric is preferred, AR might work. If AP is your only option, you may be able to make it work. If you take the inquarted material and turn it into a fine powder, there might be enough surface area to let the AP work its way through. This is certainly not the most efficient method, though.


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## pinman (Jan 29, 2010)

I think I'm gonna try this out. I'm thinking crockpot any better suggestions?


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## glorycloud (Jan 30, 2010)

The crockpot method works, just please be very careful and do it in
a very well ventilated area or outdoors. The red cloud of death is
appropriately named!! :shock:


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## pinman (Jan 30, 2010)

Is there a red cloud using ap? I have not experienced it with my pin experiment In The crockpot.


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## Platdigger (Jan 30, 2010)

no


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## pinman (Jan 30, 2010)

Would the scrubber 4metals described in this post, 
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4776
be sufficient to scrub the fumes created by a 1 gallon crockpot running ap?
Could I shorten it, if so by how much?


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 30, 2010)

pinman said:


> Would the scrubber 4metals described in this post,
> http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4776
> be sufficient to scrub the fumes created by a 1 gallon crockpot running ap?
> Could I shorten it, if so by how much?



I don't feel you will be able to shorten it without loosing the reaction time it needs to neutralize the solution.

You could proably do better by using a smaller diamiter pipe if the one crock pot is all you are using.


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## pinman (Feb 2, 2010)

Might it be possible to dissolve inquarted gold with hcl/cl, precipitate, then ap wash? Point being to provide a medium fine enough for ap to refine efficiently?


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## butcher (Feb 3, 2010)

You would put base metals in solution with gold, and silver unless inquarted will still be a roadblock. making precipitating gold a little more difficult, it could work, but I dont see you getting out the all the base metals with this proceedure, and very easy at that, at best just reducing them, you can wash salts till your blue in the face and never get all the base metals, it would be possible to do this and end up with a fairly pure product, with enough back and forth proceedures if everything went well, but at the price of gold and considering how hard it is to come by, why mess around with half way doing it? you should be able to get chemicals you need, or storebought one's and make what you need, or work with an process already established.

is it nitric you are having a problem with using, or inquarting?


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## Platdigger (Feb 3, 2010)

If you don't have nitric, I mean, if that is the problem...You could boil it in concentrated sulfruric, and put everything into solution but the gold.

It is a bit harder to rinse it free of acid though.

And of course, be very carefull with hot concentrated sulfuric. 

Nasty stuff.


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## pinman (Feb 3, 2010)

I can't find nitric locally, but I have access to hcl and peroxide. I have some copper inquarted gold soaking in ap that has put a dark green color to the solution but it has been a few days. It is apparent to me that this method will only work if I can achieve a fine enough medium. I am in the process of Building a device designed around this post, http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=6211&p=57320&hilit=Digestion#p57320
in an effort to achieve such medium. I already possess all the materials so there is no monetary loss. Any and all input is welcome and appreciated.


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## Oz (Feb 3, 2010)

Listen to Platdigger when he says “nasty stuff”!

You cannot even filter concentrated sulfuric with filter paper when cold because it will eat the paper. Things get worse when hot.


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## pinman (Feb 3, 2010)

Would I be Able to safely and legally treat the vapors created from hot sulfuric?


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## butcher (Feb 3, 2010)

PinMan, surely you can find, pottasium nitrate (stump remover), sodium nitrate fertilizer, or even ammonium nitrate fertilizer. nitric acid can be made from these, heck if you have the time nitric acid can be made from dirt.

boiling hot 98% sulfuric acid should be avoided, the doctor bills can cost alot, and that can make some nasty burns.

you might be able to melt gold with enough metal like copper and use acid peroxide but I think it would take alot of copper, and shot fine,

if you refuse nitric why not try a membrane electrolysis cell to seperate the gold, I dont have detail on the top of my head, but a concentrated salt, or ammonium chloride type electrolyte comes to mind.

you can order sodium nitrate from garden supply stores online,

heck do you have any mining stores around check them or your local jeweler, or gold buyer they will have nitric (used for testing)or may tell you were they get it.


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## pinman (Feb 3, 2010)

I searched the forum and can't find a posting on membrane electrolysis specifically. Can anyone point me in the right direction.


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## butcher (Feb 3, 2010)

good time to try out steves new search (Bot) engine, I think I'll wait till I finish my coffee, I heard they can be dangerous when you drink coffee at the computer.

from memory the membrane can be a coors cup and saturated salt.

Also there patent for the cell that used ammonium chloride as an ingrediant in the electrolyte and a membrane, I think irons posted that info.
maybe these can give some insight, sti;; have not found that certain post with pictures of saturated salt karat cell.

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=193
http://goldrecovery.us/forum_search.php
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1108
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2302
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1699&p=14522&hilit=membrane#p14522
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=485&hilit=membrane
http://shorinternational.com/simplicityInstr.htm
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1108&p=9249&hilit=membrane#p9249
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=membrane


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