# What is a good price to pay for an old motherboard



## Zolotov (Mar 6, 2017)

I found a guy that has about 200 motherboards. The old ones, probably ranging from years 2005 to 2012. How much would you offer him for these motherboards per piece to make a sure profit on gold extraction?

TIA


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## g_axelsson (Mar 6, 2017)

That's impossible to say. It all comes down to your cost.

If I can extract all gold from a motherboard for a dollar per kilo (not saying that I can) then there is no guarantee that you can do it. Labor cost, chemicals, waste treatment, interest on investment, rent for facilities, transportation cost... Do I need to continue?

And then "motherboards 2005-20012" isn't a well defined product with known concentrations of gold, it has to be sampled to get to that.

My best advice, not more than what you can resell the cards for if you don't want to do the refining yourself. Look at boardsort or similar sites to get an idea.

Göran


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## Zolotov (Mar 6, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> That's impossible to say. It all comes down to your cost.


sorry, I probably said it wrong. The question is more like "How much gold could you extract of a motherboard in average" ? Because knowing how much gold there is I can add my costs and calculate the profitability.

But most of those motherboards are of low cost, made in China and Taiwan. They are not from Intel , Dell or HP. Not server boards, just regular desktop boards, without any RAM, CPU or any other component.


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## canedane (Mar 7, 2017)

If all the bga and black chips are picked ,the value is near zero.
"just regular desktop boards, without any RAM, CPU or any other component."
You say old boards, the buyers call them" new generation boards", and they are low yield boards.
Henrik


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## Zolotov (Mar 7, 2017)

canedane said:


> If all the bga and black chips are picked ,the value is near zero.


This is one example of a board of that type:





blackchips: about 2 or 3
BIOS chips: 1
chip with pins on all four sides (big, but not the CPU) , usualy VIA or NVIDIA: 1
one cpu socket, usually gold plated
memory module sockets
some capacitors, crystal

All the chips are in place. No CPU, no memory.
What would be the scrapping value of such board?


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## chuckgambale (Mar 7, 2017)

As of today $1.70 per pound of that style board. With batteries and large heat sinks removed. That is according to boardsoart.com which is well known on this site. You should do some searches there and here using motherboard and values.


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## rickbb (Mar 7, 2017)

The last batch I sold I got $1.75 a pound. Heat sinks, batteries and CPU removed. 

Unless you can gear up to process truck loads at a time I seriously doubt you will make any money at all.


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## Zolotov (Mar 7, 2017)

chuckgambale said:


> As of today $1.70 per pound of that style board.


Thanks! This kind of tips are invaluable on my initiation in this business.
Do you know if this is the price with or without CPU ?
Because, here is the description and it is kind of ambiguous:



> Small socket motherboards are a lower grade of PC motherboard.
> These boards have CPU's such as Pentium 4, Athlon, Sempron, Celeron D and others.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Zolotov (Mar 7, 2017)

rickbb said:


> Unless you can gear up to process truck loads at a time I seriously doubt you will make any money at all.


As a signle person, I can process one ton per two weeks. One ton have 150 grams of gold, but if I extract only 100 that will be very good for me. Is 1 ton what you mean by "truck loads" ?


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## anachronism (Mar 7, 2017)

It will cost you so much in time and materials that your perceived 100g will be dropped dramatically in real terms. You can sell those straight out the door and get more for maybe half a day's work invested.


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## Zolotov (Mar 8, 2017)

anachronism said:


> It will cost you so much in time and materials that your perceived 100g will be dropped dramatically in real terms. You can sell those straight out the door and get more for maybe half a day's work invested.


Thanks for your advice. However, here are some other thoughts for you to think about:
You can make money by these methods:
1) By adding value. You process a product or service to convert it into another form which increase its value.
2) By volume. You replicate the same product and focus on delivering it to more customers.
3) By reducing costs while producing the same value and volume.

What you are suggesting is to stop the chain of product transformation (final product is gold) , or in other words - stop adding the value. Yes you will reduce costs this way because I am not going to invest my time in the product anymore, but the value is not going to be added too. So, there is no gain for me in following your advice, can you see it? If you would suggest some idea that would reduce cost while adding value and also the volume, then it would be a much better idea. This is what making money is about, going not just 1 dimension (the three steps above), but 3 dimensions at the same time.


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## macfixer01 (Mar 8, 2017)

Zolotov said:


> chuckgambale said:
> 
> 
> > As of today $1.70 per pound of that style board.
> ...




Pricing would be with no CPU installed. References such as small socket or large socket refer to the dimensions of just the pin area of the empty CPU socket (not the outer dimensions of the whole socket). That gives a general idea of the age of the board and type of support chips it contains. Usually small socket is considered 1.5 inches and under, and large socket is 1.75 inches and over.


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## anachronism (Mar 8, 2017)

Zolotov said:


> anachronism said:
> 
> 
> > It will cost you so much in time and materials that your perceived 100g will be dropped dramatically in real terms. You can sell those straight out the door and get more for maybe half a day's work invested.
> ...



Sure I can see and understand your thinking. Then again you have to consider the time and cost of time involved of "adding value." When you've spent all that time and "added" all that value what is the real net gain? 
Whilst I am sure you have a way of making it a real gain, many people don't really achieve a real gain when the other factors are taken into account. If you don't think my advice is good advice then that's perfectly alright I don't take any offence at all but to add some background for perspective: I process tonnes of board product every week, and the only things I refine personally from this equipment are the small seriously high grade components such as ceramic chips, and telecoms connectors. The rest goes into containers and straight to the refinery. I call it cherry picking, but it means both that my time is spent as effectively as possible, and the real profits are maximised.

Regards

Jon


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## Zolotov (Mar 8, 2017)

anachronism said:


> I process tonnes of board product every week, and the only things I refine personally from this equipment are the small seriously high grade components such as ceramic chips, and telecoms connectors. The rest goes into containers and straight to the refinery. I call it cherry picking, but it means both that my time is spent as effectively as possible, and the real profits are maximised.



Your advice is very important to me because it is coming from the expert in this industry, and I am going to keep an eye on the expenses, so my profits aren't evaporating. Thank you very much.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 8, 2017)

I do not understand that adding value point you are trying to make. Maybe I am thick but for me gold do have set value and you will not add value to it unless you process it itself into jewelry for example. 
If you take motherboard it will have value itself and you cant add anything to it. You either process it or sell. You can buy cheaper than real value and perhaps sometimes sell for more than its value but I do not get how you can add any value to it apart from keeping it in storage for 50 years and trying to offload it as collectors item. With scrapping, recovery and refining there is no adding value of any sort I can think of.


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## aga (Mar 8, 2017)

Zolotov said:


> As a signle person, I can process one ton per two weeks.


Please explain/show photos of how you process half a ton of e-scrap every week.

There are many internet personalities saying things like this on forums.

It is getting hard to believe that they are all people who actually Do PM recovery/refining.


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## Zolotov (Mar 8, 2017)

aga said:


> Please explain/show photos of how you process half a ton of e-scrap every week.
> There are many internet personalities saying things like this on forums.
> It is getting hard to believe that they are all people who actually Do PM recovery/refining.



I never did any processing yet, it is all estimations. I have just entered this business and I am testing it for income. But when I'll do my first ton I will let you know what was the real time. 

I don't count chemical processes as time consuming because they require little time in comparison with other work. The most time consuming process is depopulating the board (besides going out looking for it), because a ton of motherboards will contain 2,500 pieces. So you have to process a motherboard in 1 minute to make 60 motherboards per hour, accumulating 600 motherboards per day if you work 10 hours, so roughly in 4-5 days you could process all of them. But you would probably ask, how do you depopulate a board in 1 minute? This is how, with electric scraper (or hammer, I am not sure what is the name of this tool in english). You can check it on this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxSKaIRhAQ


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## patnor1011 (Mar 8, 2017)

You will not be able to apply this kind of math. No matter how good you are you will not depopulate motherboard in one minute. Not to mention that you will be able to keep on doing it for 10 hours straight. It is not possible. You do have to account for extra time picking up stuff and sorting it......
Another point is that this is just crude very selective depopulation where you are missing many of the goodies. 
If I would guess I could say you will have hard time to completely depopulate and sort hundred kilo of motherboards in a week, doing it few weeks and still keep your sanity. Not with that tool you mentioned. Believe me I know what I am talking about as I attempted to do so and still trying yet it is simply impossible quest.
Purchasing motherboards, depopulating it the way you mentioned and then trying to recover gold with acids is not a business, it is a slavery and can be done as a hobby but not as a viable enterprise. And thinking about tons done in a month by single person is a gold fever induced dreaming. 
I am in no way trying to discourage you. I did not believed others when they told me exactly the same and tried it only to conclude that they were right so I am simply passing on knowledge and experience on you. You are entitled to disregard it and try it all by yourself but I can bet that you will come to the same conclusion. Some things simply look good on paper but reality is much different.

I would like to disagree that chemical processes are not time consuming, it is clear that you did not done much and your experience is very limited. Every chemical process is time, resources and attention consuming if you want to get it right.


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## Zolotov (Mar 9, 2017)

patnor1011 said:


> You will not be able to apply this kind of math. No matter how good you are you will not depopulate motherboard in one minute. Not to mention that you will be able to keep on doing it for 10 hours straight. It is not possible. You do have to account for extra time picking up stuff and sorting it......


Well, I currently work on other stuff, and I write all time I consume, per minute. I have done 10 , and 12 hours of work per day (with rest periods in between) and I have no problems working 10 hours a day. I only don't account the time I have to go to the bathroom , because that would be just sick, to register the minute you spent there. But if I take a time to eat something, or rest, I log the end time, then I log the start time. So, 10 hours is not unreal for me, I mean pure work time, measured with precision of a minute. Try to account the time you work. If you talk with a friend, stop the timer , when you finish, start it, just for you to know your real productivity. Most people works 3 to 4 hours a day. I mean, real work, the work that is useful, specially those who work in an office of a large coropration.



patnor1011 said:


> I am in no way trying to discourage you. I did not believed others when they told me exactly the same and tried it only to conclude that they were right so I am simply passing on knowledge and experience on you. You are entitled to disregard it and try it all by yourself but I can bet that you will come to the same conclusion. Some things simply look good on paper but reality is much different.



Then there is something wrong, and I want to find out what it is. I am living in a 3rd world country , we don't pay taxes here, we can buy any acid we want (cheap) and do whatever we want, except polluting public spaces , obviously. So, here I am witnessing an explosion of gold extraction from electronics. More and more people is entering. They all work as single entrepreneurs, none of them have any "Inc" society, they probably hire other people but none of this employment activity is reported to the government. All this started 3 years ago, and the market has grown a lot. Now everybody is selling his electronic junk, throwing it away is considered stupid. So, if the market has only grown, and the price per kg of mobile motherboards almost didn't rise (in dollar terms, i mean, adjusted for inflation the rise from first year to now was only %5) , then it means everybody is in profits. Because you can't operate 3 years, and grow while having other entrepreneurs doing the same as you in the same geographical area. 

My observation is, people is making profits. Now, if I don't make any, then I am the guy who does something wrong and I want to find out what it is.


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## Zolotov (Mar 9, 2017)

patnor1011 said:


> I do not understand that adding value point you are trying to make. Maybe I am thick but for me gold do have set value and you will not add value to it unless you process it itself into jewelry for example.
> If you take motherboard it will have value itself and you cant add anything to it.


If the activity you are doing is gold extraction, then you should see the laptop as gold ore. Not as computer. If you see it as computer, then there is a lot of other values you can create from. You can also see the laptop as a killing instrument if it is very heavy. Or as a mirror, if it is of silver color. The amount of added values is infinite if you start switching industries. But if we are looking at it from the point of view of gold recovery, then it is considered mining. The final gold of mining is getting the metal , i.e. the value. If you create jewellery from the gold you extract, then you are entering a new business. Because you could have bought it anywhere as do million of other jewellers. Yes you can create value buy holding the laptop and selling it to the collectionist. But that is again, another business, nothing related to mining. Don't mix business types, because you will lose energy. If you collect, and make jewellery you are going to compete in 3 industries and that's very difficult to win when you fight with 3 enemies instead of just one. Even if your business of mining gold from laptops is successful and you enter another business, like jewellry, it should not be mixed with mining. Because you may lose money, a large healthy company could be keeping afloat a bad jewellery business.


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## anachronism (Mar 9, 2017)

This one's going in a weird direction


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## kjavanb123 (Mar 9, 2017)

if you want to depopulate a ton of board in a day, here is your answer, look up this company.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocrr9nEDZR8

last time I checked over few months ago, you could buy one of their dismantling system for $8500, and that will let you depopulate 500 kg per hour.

Regards
Kj


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## Zolotov (Mar 9, 2017)

kjavanb123 said:


> if you want to depopulate a ton of board in a day, here is your answer, look up this company.


wooooow ... the best idea ever!!! thanks a lot!! 

btw, the biggest problem I am facing, is not processing the scrap , but getting any of it. There is very little of it for a good price, and a lot of expensive scrap which decreases your margin.


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## Zolotov (Mar 9, 2017)

kjavanb123 said:


> if you want to depopulate a ton of board in a day, here is your answer, look up this company.


I just have a question, what temperature is it burning at ? And what happens to the gold plated sockets are they cleaned fully ? I mean, does this machine fully removes manual work?
Also, this method might produce toxic gases because there are resistors on the motherboard that have ruthenium, very dangerous and toxic metal.


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## jimdoc (Mar 9, 2017)

Zolotov said:


> btw, the biggest problem I am facing, is not processing the scrap , but getting any of it. There is very little of it for a good price, and a lot of expensive scrap which decreases your margin.




Yet you are here telling us of your plans to process "one ton per two weeks".
You are just dreaming. Wake up.


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## canedane (Mar 9, 2017)

btw, the biggest problem I am facing, is not processing the scrap , but getting any of it. There is very little of it for a good price, and a lot of expensive scrap which decreases your margin.[/quote]
Im sorry to say it, but your biggest problem are you dont have any sense for reality, and have huge plans with out any know how. Goran give you some advise, start with them, learn a little at the time, do it as a hobby.
Maybe if you are getting good you can have a business in the future, but learn for 5 years first.
I like you Zolotov, take this as an advice from a friend.
Henrik


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## aga (Mar 9, 2017)

Zolotov said:


> I never did any processing yet, it is all estimations.


How come you have so much Opinion when you have never tried recovering or refining PMs ?

This forum is for gold recovery and refining, not speculation about if you should ever Do any.

Nor is it a place to ask many random questions just to get some kind of human response.

This thread isn't going in a weird direction Jon, it's just going in the direction the OP wanted - they got some attention.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 9, 2017)

Zolotov said:


> kjavanb123 said:
> 
> 
> > if you want to depopulate a ton of board in a day, here is your answer, look up this company.
> ...



Ruthenium? Do not be overly concerned with this one. There are tens of others which can kill you, some of them even faster....
You forgot:
Arsenic. ...
Barium. ...
Beryllium. ...
Brominated flame retardants (BFRs) ...
Cadmium. ...
CFCs (Chlorofluorocarbons) ...
Chromium. ...
Dioxins Dioxins and furans are a family of chemicals comprising 75 different types of dioxin compounds and 135 related compounds known as furans.
Lead. ..
Mercury. ..
and many many others....


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## Zolotov (Mar 9, 2017)

aga said:


> Zolotov said:
> 
> 
> > I never did any processing yet, it is all estimations.
> ...



But this thread goes into "miscelaneous->general chat" so we can take anything related to gold refining. I am not violating any forum guidelines. Attention is not what I am seeking , believe me, all I am after are profits.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 9, 2017)

Zolotov said:


> Attention is not what I am seeking , believe me, all I am after are profits.



True, but sadly you failed to spot them (profits). You are going in wrong direction. 




Zolotov said:


> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> > I do not understand that adding value point you are trying to make. Maybe I am thick but for me gold do have set value and you will not add value to it unless you process it itself into jewelry for example.
> ...



While electronic recycling is being compared to mining it is actually far from it. Both do have its own specifics and its own set of challenges and believe me if you get to recycling, recovery and refining you are not switching industries there is quite a few of them involved anyway. 
Creating or adding value, maximizing profits, business..... It all sounds like one of those New Age type "How to get rich" books or guides which are being sold all over amazon or ebay. You seems to be so well prepared with all of this theories and quotes yet you lack one important thing which is called practical knowledge. If I start listing all of my endeavors I tried and failed (not for lack of trying, finances or energy invested) we could sit here till the morning easily. 
It is just that while some things looks very nice on paper, in theory or in your head, that is not a guarantee of success in real life. 

From everything you have written so far it is very clear you suffer from gold fever just like most of us. If you would invest a bit of time in your pursuit of riches by studying this forum you could find a lot of tried and tested methods, valuable information and answer to many of your question. 
One of the most important things you failed to notice is that none of electronic recycling companies is making their money from recovering gold. MAjority of their income comes from ferrous and nonferrous metals, reusable stuff and plastics. Gold usually comes last and just as a bonus from what they do. Yet here you are basing your business idea on a question of "if gold plated sockets come out cleaned fully". Do you know that there is just one small thing on motherboard which contain 10x more of gold than all of the pins and sockets in entire board? And that there is more value in copper in most of modern motherboards than any gold in there?




Have a good look at sentence right under this one and think about it for a while. :wink:


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## aga (Mar 9, 2017)

Zolotov, this forum is the Best source of information about recovering/refining Gold and other Precious Metals available on the planet, because it is for people who Do recovery/refining.

Either try to recover/refine something, or not.

If you are not trying to recover or refine Gold/PMs, then this is not the forum you wanted.

Repeatedly posting questions about things you are not even doing will not be tolerated further.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 9, 2017)

With a sight of gold people often lose perspective. 
I have no doubt you are hard worker or that you want to commit yourself to hard labor for 10 hours a day and it is refreshing to see that people want to make living by their own hard work. However one man operation and ton of material a week involving collection, dismantling, depopulation, separation, chemical extraction is impossible. It cant be done. 
Here is something which may help you to get a view of most of the things we talk about. This is what may be called small to medium sized operation which does go through bit more than a ton a week and they do use all the machinery they can in order to be effective. Try to compare it to your idea - you have to get some serious hardware if you want to move volume. It is how one of my friend does his business and while he does not refine or process any gold chemically he do collect some high value items to have them processed by refinery. Video is in slovak language but pretty self explanatory if you do have any questions about some particular part you can ask, I had a tour through whole operation few times.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix_uG64H_3Y[/youtube]

I uploaded it to youtube few years ago and for some reason they took out audio and put in some crazy music. I tried to revert it and it is editing it out hopefully in a while original audio will be back on instead of what it is there now.


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## g_axelsson (Mar 9, 2017)

aga said:


> Repeatedly posting questions about things you are not even doing will not be tolerated further.


Please, leave the moderation to the moderators.

Aga, If someone is getting on your nerves, feel free to ignore them. There is a couple of members that I can't stand and I just ignore their posts as long as it doesn't break the forum rules or pose a hazard to our members.

Göran


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 10, 2017)

I agree with Goran, aga. Mind your own business.


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## kurtak (Mar 10, 2017)

aga said:


> Zolotov, this forum is the Best source of information about recovering/refining Gold and other Precious Metals available on the planet, because it is for people who Do recovery/refining.
> 
> Either try to recover/refine something, or not.
> 
> ...



:shock: :shock: :shock: Who in the world do you think you are aga :?: :?: :?: 

Here is what I know - you are NOT the owner of this forum :!: you are NOT a moderator on this forum :!: you are not even a long term member of this forum :!: 

So what in the world makes you think you are in a position to give another NEW member such advice &/or warning :?: 

There is nothing wrong with the questions Zolotov is asking - he is simply "feeling out" a possible direction of interest AND that interest IS in line with what we discuss on this forum - which is NOT restricted to just the recovery &/or refining of PMs - we also discuss "recycling" of PM bearing material 

In fact - from what I can see - Zolotov is asking about recovery &/or refining E-waste "on a large scale" & some of us (that have been at this a LOT longer then you) are suggesting that he may want to think about just recycling - at least as a starting point

Let me be the first to say aga - that this may not be the forum you wanted --- considering this "I am better & smarter then anyone else" attitude you like to pack around 

You might want to look for a forum where you will be considered "a god"

Kurt


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## snoman701 (Mar 10, 2017)

patnor1011 said:


> I do not understand that adding value point you are trying to make. Maybe I am thick but for me gold do have set value and you will not add value to it unless you process it itself into jewelry for example.
> If you take motherboard it will have value itself and you cant add anything to it. You either process it or sell. You can buy cheaper than real value and perhaps sometimes sell for more than its value but I do not get how you can add any value to it apart from keeping it in storage for 50 years and trying to offload it as collectors item. With scrapping, recovery and refining there is no adding value of any sort I can think of.



Adding Value in scrap is a misnomer as you suggest....I think it's better called "upgrading". 

As an example, if you take a digital TV box and strip it of all of the RCA plugs, coax plugs, large capacitors...then you have upgraded that 1.5 lb board to a higher grade 1 lb board and 1/2 lb cleaner copper bearing scrap. Sort the large capacitors and removed components, and you have upgraded that material as well, as now instead of just "shred" you have copper bearing and aluminum bearing breakage. It will depend on how fast you are able to process it to determine if you are going to make any money or not. Either way, I've never known it as a method of processing to receive full intrinsic value of a product.

I actually do it a lot, and find there are places where you can really make some good $$ if you aren't afraid to get dirty, and have a good source of incoming scrap.


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## anachronism (Mar 11, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> > I do not understand that adding value point you are trying to make. Maybe I am thick but for me gold do have set value and you will not add value to it unless you process it itself into jewelry for example.
> ...



I find it funny that people who have yet to show any gold seem to feel lately that they can tell people how to make money at this game.  Let's see some gold, would you not agree that it's about time you had some to show?

Patnor's been at this a long time and is one of the sharpest guys I know when it comes to making money.


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## snoman701 (Mar 11, 2017)

anachronism said:


> I find it funny that people who have yet to show any gold seem to feel lately that they can tell people how to make money at this game.  Let's see some gold, would you not agree that it's about time you had some to show?
> 
> Patnor's been at this a long time and is one of the sharpest guys I know when it comes to making money.



Hey now, I've been playing with e-scrap for years...and scrap for even longer. But I get your point, I had zero intention of "correcting" Patnor, and if it came across that way it was accidental. 

And it is about time, and I do have some, but it's not pretty enough. In fact, right now it's a dried black powder in the bottom of a dirty beaker. I didn't have copperas, so I just let my AR dehydrate. I'm also out of HCl  Hopefully by the end of next week, as I've decided to make my own copperas. 

Making money at this game, as many have alluded to, has very little to do with gold...and everything to do with skimming a few cents per lb, then passing the product on to someone else who is more equipped to handle it. 

I have zero doubts that Patnor doesn't know this, and merely saw something in the original posters statement that I thought Patnor may have missed. As you said, Patnor has been at this game for a long time. 

My point was that upgrading material is a very real process....and I do it outside of E-scrap all the time. I buy reasonably large amounts of copper and aluminum breakage, clean it, then resell it to make money all the time. I have not gotten in to this with e-scrap, as I'm just now re-entering e-scrap. The method I pointed out is just one that I have read about.

One of the things that I find interesting is how much the "bug" makes you first want to process EVERYTHING. Then, you get picky. Then...well, I don't know...you tell me...I'm stuck between everything and picky right now


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## saadat68 (Nov 25, 2017)

patnor1011 said:


> Zolotov said:
> 
> 
> > kjavanb123 said:
> ...


Is there a completely safe way to process electronic scrap for big and small scale?
I don't want to contact with toxic metals


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## anachronism (Nov 25, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> Is there a completely safe way to process electronic scrap for big and small scale?
> I don't want to contact with toxic metals



Yes there is. Sell it or send it to a refinery.


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## nickvc (Nov 25, 2017)

anachronism said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a completely safe way to process electronic scrap for big and small scale?
> ...


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## silversaddle1 (Nov 25, 2017)

First off, what a huge mistake you are making starting off with such low grade scrap. They are one step above junk. Then if you think you are.............. nevermind, it's already been said.


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## snoman701 (Nov 25, 2017)

anachronism said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a completely safe way to process electronic scrap for big and small scale?
> ...



This method works.


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