# Help with silver and nitric acid turned blue then grey



## Nailheadjake (Jan 25, 2022)

I started refining 800 ARG silver with 70% nitric acid. diluting it with 50% nitric and 50% diluted water until it dissolved the silver. At first it turned light blue , as I let the solution sit it ended up turning gray. is this normal? as I still have all the material and solution. Can anybody can help? that would be more than appreciated on why it turned gray after blue . how I got to those steps I melted that down with borax took off all the slag that would come up. Then made silver shot by dropping it into water. After that I made my mixture of distilled water and nitric acid. Slowly putting some shot into the warm solution. Was I missing a step??


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## ssharktu17 (Jan 25, 2022)

800 ARG is not silver! That is silver plate.


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## Nailheadjake (Jan 25, 2022)

I melted that down with borax took off all the slag that would come up. Then made silver shot by dropping it into water. After that I made my mixture of distilled water and nitric acid. Slowly putting some shot into the warm solution. Was I missing a step??


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## ssharktu17 (Jan 25, 2022)

Nailheadjake said:


> I melted that down with borax took off all the slag that would come up. Then made silver shot by dropping it into water. After that I made my mixture of distilled water and nitric acid. Slowly putting some shot into the warm solution. Was I missing a step??


Are you talking about the flatware? There is no silver in it so you are wasting a lot of chemicals.


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## Swissgoldrefiner (Jan 25, 2022)

Nailheadjake said:


> I melted that down with borax took off all the slag that would come up. Then made silver shot by dropping it into water. After that I made my mixture of distilled water and nitric acid. Slowly putting some shot into the warm solution. Was I missing a step??


The missing step is maybe that there is no silver inside your metal. In europe there is silver 800, which means 80% silver and other denomination for silver plated. If you add NaCl or HCl and nothing precipitate or ver small amount that mean it was plated.


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## Nailheadjake (Jan 25, 2022)

Silver plates everything was stamped 800 or sterling silver. Yes some flatware. If I wasted chemicals then that is. What it is. But , moving forward with my silver refining (learning) project I tested the silver shot with silver test came out as silver , so I believe most other metals were burned off into the borax. And is the suspended silver (grey solution left over) the same steps. After rinsing and filtering adding the copper bar to the jar? I appreciate your response and help with the silver


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## Nailheadjake (Jan 25, 2022)

Swissgoldrefiner said:


> The missing step is maybe that there is no silver inside your metal. In europe there is silver 800, which means 80% silver and other denomination for silver plated. If you add NaCl or HCl and nothing precipitate or ver small amount that mean it was plated.


Yes I understand that it came out to about 250 grams of shot I had melted


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## Yggdrasil (Jan 25, 2022)

First thing first.
If it was 800 ARG, as they say that is at best plated, which means it is covered by a thin layer of silver.

When you melted this you created an alloy in which the silver would be at best 1% (my guesstimate).

Then you dissolved it creating a mix of nitrates. And by luck, no metastannic acid according to the pictures.

The minute amount of silver if it is there, can be precipitated by adding salt to the filtered clear solution, forming silver chloride.

But according to the colour it may have been subjected to strong sunlight and converted into oxide already, which is a mess I don't know how to fix, unless by starting all over.

For appr. 2.5grams of silver or less.
I'd recommend you to consider this a lesson learned and find better feedstock.

To be on the safe side. Take one drop of the solution put it in a plastic spoon (not white) and add some table salt. 
If the solution turns white, you have silver in solution.
If not, no silver.


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## Nailheadjake (Jan 25, 2022)

Swissgoldrefiner said:


> The missing step is maybe that there is no silver inside your metal. In europe there is silver 800, which means 80% silver and other denomination for silver plated. If you add NaCl or HCl and nothing precipitate or ver small amount that mean it was plated.


Yes I understand that it came out to about 250 grams of shot I had me


Yggdrasil said:


> First thing first.
> If it was 800 ARG, as they say that is at best plated, which means it is covered by a thin layer of silver.
> 
> When you melted this you created an alloy in which the silver would be at best 1% (my guesstimate).
> ...


thank you for your response. I am learning and I appreciate your knowledge and patience to explain.


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## SilverNitrate (Jan 25, 2022)

pour the liquid portion into another container and drop in some pieces of copper. The copper should dissolve some turning the solution blue and a silver residue should form. The grey material before may be zinc or possibly silver mixed with something else.


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## Elemental (Jan 25, 2022)

When in doubt, cement it out


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## galenrog (Jan 25, 2022)

800 ARG is silver plated. Base metals can vary. Copper, copper alloys, brass, and zinc are the most common base metals, but do not discount the possibility of other base metals. Any silver present will be in the plating only. Have fun. Time for more coffee.


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## Nailheadjake (Jan 25, 2022)

Elemental said:


> Correction: I’ll have to possibly go by that Method after some research thank you


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## Yggdrasil (Jan 25, 2022)

I don't know what you meant here, but Elemental did not say that.
You should read your posts and edit if mistakes are done.
And see if it is not understandable after posting, edit so others can get your meaning.


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## Nailheadjake (Jan 25, 2022)

After getting back from work I notice the solution developed a white crystal or something any help with what may have happened? Thank you to all that have took the time to comment I really appreciate all the knowledge from this community


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## Nailheadjake (Jan 25, 2022)

After getting back from work I notice the solution developed a white crystal or something any help with what may have happened? Thank you to all that have took the time to comment I really appreciate all the knowledge from this community


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## Yggdrasil (Jan 25, 2022)

Nailheadjake said:


> After getting back from work I notice the solution developed a white crystal or something any help with what may have happened? Thank you to all that have took the time to comment I really appreciate all the knowledge from this community


Please do not double post, it is against forum rules.
Well, you should do as advised in the first place, pour off the liquid, then wash those crystals and pour the wash liquid into the other liquid.
Then test the liquid as advised. Put the salt in water and heat it to see if it dissolves.
Report back when you have some results.


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## Nailheadjake (Jan 25, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Please do not double post, it is against forum rules.
> Well, you should do as advised in the first place, pour off the liquid, then wash those crystals and pour the wash liquid into the other liquid.
> Then test the liquid as advised. Put the salt in water and heat it to see if it dissolves.
> Report back when you have some results.


Any idea of what these crystal forms might be?


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## Nailheadjake (Jan 25, 2022)

So this is the table salt and spoon test


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## Yggdrasil (Jan 26, 2022)

If it is a before and after, it indicates silver in solution.

Add a few ml of Sulfuric to drop lead.
When you have filtered it crystal clear. Proceed to next.

Add salt and your silver will drop as a fluffy white salt. Filter and process as silver chloride.

Or put in a bar of copper. It will drop purish silver as metallic powder.


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## nwinther (Jan 26, 2022)

Sorry for hijacking, but why is the plate called Arg 800? Arg=Argentum is obvious, but why 800? I'd make the mistake myself, thinking it's .800 fine silver (Danish "fine silverware" is .830 fine).
Is it to confuse and fool ignorants like me?

*edit: My memory of danish silver fineness was wrong. It's even more base than that.


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## Nailheadjake (Jan 26, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> If it is a before and after, it indicates silver in solution.
> 
> Add a few ml of Sulfuric to drop lead.
> When you have filtered it crystal clear. Proceed to next.
> ...


Yes that is a before and after


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## Geo (Apr 5, 2022)

I wouldn't toss away any solids without investigating further. Isolate some of the crystals and try to determine what they are soluble in. Hopefully, it's water. Try cold and hot water first. Then try HCl concentrate and dilute. If there is no reaction with either, try a base, like hydroxide. In any case, I would roast all remaining solids and rinse with water. Then dissolve everything in nitric acid again. It looks awfully suspicious to me.


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## ssharktu17 (Apr 5, 2022)

nwinther said:


> Sorry for hijacking, but why is the plate called Arg 800? Arg=Argentum is obvious, but why 800? I'd make the mistake myself, thinking it's .800 fine silver (Danish "fine silverware" is .830 fine).
> Is it to confuse and fool ignorants like me?
> 
> *edit: My memory of danish silver fineness was wrong. It's even more base than that.


It’s a scam knockoff from Italy.


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## ssharktu17 (Apr 5, 2022)

Geo said:


> I wouldn't toss away any solids without investigating further. Isolate some of the crystals and try to determine what they are soluble in. Hopefully, it's water. Try cold and hot water first. Then try HCl concentrate and dilute. If there is no reaction with either, try a base, like hydroxide. In any case, I would roast all remaining solids and rinse with water. Then dissolve everything in nitric acid again. It looks awfully suspicious to me.


Maybe a small amount of silver plating.


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