# White smoke when dunking.



## NDEnewbie (Sep 8, 2016)

I dunked a copper tube into the tank of fixer and got a silver coat in less than a second. So I tried another tube in my 45gallon barrel. While using a flashlight, I noticed right when i pulled out the tube, the fixer had a little white smoke coming off it where I dunked the copper......is this bad???? 
I have been doing a lot of research this past week but i still have many questions I cannot find any answers to.
Where and how do I obtain chemicals to recover the silver, Im sure I can't find HCL and NaOH at Wal-Mart.......iv called!
also nitric acid!
I know if I leave my xray film in the fix overnight, the next morning it will be transparent. Is it worth it to shred film and leave it in my barrel of fix to strip the film clean, then recover the silver from the fixer later?
Also...... does everybody on here have a background in chemistry?? I'm reading a lot of things from "home hobiests" that I cant even understand.
Thanks again. 
This picture is from a very quick dunk ( less than a second ) in the barrel of spent fix.






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## NDEnewbie (Sep 8, 2016)

I do have a gallon of sulfuric acid tho.
Or if anyone is around my area and can show me how this goes, I'd be happy to take a drive with my film/fixer, and split the silver 50-50. 

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## NDEnewbie (Sep 8, 2016)

We give the film/ fixer away for free to some guy that knows the process, but im thinking he's making out like a bandit and collecting thousands every time he picks up the barrels.

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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 8, 2016)

HCl = muriatic acid = sold at hardware stores, ask for concrete etchant, or pool supply stores for ph control

NaOH = sodium hydroxide = lye/caustic soda = sold at hardware stores as drain cleaner

Hope this helps.

The forums vast amount of information can feel a bit daunting at first, but, never fear. There are a lot of good guys here who have taken time to put together thread lists for beginners. In which all of the information I have yet shared is available.

Lazer Steve - has a guided tour, that is one where you should follow every link. Also visit his website for more essential info.

FrugalRefiner - has Hokes book in his signature line. A must read, its written for every Joe, not just chemists

KaDriver - has good tutorials, as well as videos on youtube under the name "Sreetips" a bunch of must watches

Geo - has lots of good videos too

Butcher - has a great way of explaining every detail in such a way that it is easily absorbed and understood by all 

Goldsilverpro - has tonnes of great posts on silver, it would benefit you greatly to find a few of those threads

...i could keep going forever really, but, this should get you started.

:mrgreen:

Edit for clarity


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## NDEnewbie (Sep 8, 2016)

Lol. Awesome thanks a lot. 
I was under the impression HCL was hydro cloric acid. I believe miratic acid is used for boat cleaners around here.
As for NaOH, all the hardware stores carry draino and drain cleaners, but I thought I needed straight NaOH.
A lot of chemicals have been takin off the shelves the past couple years, there has been a lot of stupid kids home meth lab busts. Even calling around asking for these things.......i was getting drilled by workers asking what it was being used for.
Thanks for the advise tho. Learning lots from this site! 

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## NDEnewbie (Sep 8, 2016)

Oops. My bad.....it IS hydro cloric acid!

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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 8, 2016)

NDEnewbie said:


> As for NaOH, all the hardware stores carry draino and drain cleaners, but I thought I needed straight NaOH.


Be sure to read the labels, and shop around. Drain cleaners can be NaOH, NaOH with other ingredients, sulfuric acid, and who knows what else. Different hardware store chains carry different products. Sometimes the smaller chains are more willing to order things for you they don't normally stock. If they ask what you want to use it for, just tell them you need to clean your drain, or etch some concrete, or lower your pool pH, or whatever purpose the product is sold for.

Dave


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## goldsilverpro (Sep 8, 2016)

Muriatic acid is a lower quality, lower strength, hydrochloric acid, but they can be used interchangeably for most anything we do.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 8, 2016)

Yes, you must do *alot* more homework beyond that of what I laid out.

I would go by the hardware store.. See what kind of drain cleaners they have (usually the plastic bottle, inside of a plastic bag is sulfuric acid 98%, but, one occasion I found lye that way..) and search the brand name msds sheets, or ask them for some. They *should* have them.. My local lowes, does not.. :evil: 

Some drain cleaners that are lye, don't have on their msds that they have inhibitors in it, but you will be able to tell visually. Has small filings of aluminum and different colored prills.

Do you have a science education center near you?
You may be able to get chemically pure sodium hydroxide that way.
Go in, talk to the guy, build a relationship over time so he knows you arent a heathen with a dope lab, and he may be able to order you some stuff (in the name of science, of course!). :G


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## NDEnewbie (Sep 9, 2016)

Thank you for all the advise.
I will be obtaining the chemicals, and doing alot of homwork be for I start the procedure.

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## the iron dwarf (Sep 9, 2016)

it is better to do the home work BEFORE you obtain the chemicals so you know what to get and how to store it, also get the correct PPE and equipment before getting the chemicals.
some chemicals do not live happily together and an accident can be bad


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## rickbb (Sep 9, 2016)

That's a good amount of silver in your fix. With a 45 gal drum I'd get a small electrolytic recovery unit, the silver will be almost pure and it's a turn it on and forget it for a few days. Plus no chemistry required.

As for the x-ray film, the old school, rare earth film yields about 1 ozt. per 10 lbs. of used film, unprocessed a bit higher. At $20 an ozt., he is not making out like a bandit, he is barely turning a small profit after all his labor, equipment and chemicals.


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## NDEnewbie (Sep 10, 2016)

Thanks guys!!
I work in the oil refineries so the PPE is not a problem. Any yes homwork be for the chemicals, I have yet to acquire any chemicals but have been doing research every night. 


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## Bitcollector (Feb 21, 2021)

Hi guys,

I'm new to forum. I started reading a couple of weeks ago, (and still am). I saw some videos on how to refine gold. It seemed like we can learn to refine gold in 15 mins, but whenever i read how to do something, it always seemed like something was missing. They never told how much acid for how much metal, or they never told how long it took, or why they did such and such.

I learned to cook from my grandmothers and mother and when baking or cooking, they used a lot more details than most people put on how to refine gold. They taught me, how much, and how long, and how do you tell when its done when you make chocolate chip cookies or pumpkin pie, and anything else, but these 15 mins videos always had more missing than they told you. It didn't seem right.

Then I found this forum and then Madam Hokes book, then I found out how bad things can get by reading difficulties that people get themselves in.

Then I found this post and read, "White smoke when DRINKING", then I read it again. Oh!

Hahaha. Hope you don't mind if I've been reading too long and am too serious and read badly at times. This is why i have to read things a couple of times.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## butcher (Feb 22, 2021)

The more we learn the more we find out how much more there is we need to learn.

Becoming a mechanic is simple if you watch a video, but becoming skilled at it takes a bit more work.
some tasks of the job may be simple, other times there are complications that take more understanding and skill or even experience to be able to handle.

Like becoming an electrician or a radio repairman, or some other learned skills or trades.
Recovering and refining gold and other precious metals is a skill we can study and practice all our life and gain more experience as we go, but a skill we will never learn everything about it. the more we learn the more we see we do not know yet, that is one thing I love about it, it is hard to go brain dead when your learning more every day.


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## nickvc (Feb 22, 2021)

As Richard has said there is a lot to learn and I doubt you will ever know it all, no one does in my opinion, but to help you keep it simple to start and only start to process once you know what to expect, and when you feel ready to start use small quantities and learn the reactions in a way you can control moving onto larger batches as you become comfortable, you can always post what you intend to do and ask for the members comments many of whom have been where you are now.


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## butcher (Feb 22, 2021)

Many times we see members trying to leach gold, with no idea of how to test for gold once they have it dissolved. 

That is like the senile ole blind-man letting his cows out to pasture without attaching their bells, he is going to have a heck of a time trying to figure out where all his cows have gone, once he starts looking for them.

Hokes will help in gaining an understanding, doing the getting acquainted experiments suggested in the book gives you a better understanding of the reactions of different metals, showing you how they can react, and give you some experience to build upon improving your ability to troubleshoot problems later.

Reading the book over again until you begin to see what it is she teaches, not spoken, but is said between the written words, like how we are constantly removing worthless metals or leaving them behind as we improve the purity of the metal.

Beginning with a more simple scrap. or a more simple process, this is difficult to begin learning, starting with more simple material like sterling, karat gold, or memory fingers, or material with fewer problems that will evolve as your learning the principles.

Begin with a simple leach or process to part the gold or other metals, The Cupric chloride (or the ferric chloride leaches) are very useful for electronic scrap, making learning this gold recovery method will be easier with a material like memory fingers or clean gold plated connector pins (no solder).

Study your options, you may find where HCl and bleach may be a better option or choice than aqua regia.

Start simple, start with simple materials or scrap, using the more simple processes, study them well to gain an understanding before beginning, using what you studied to improve your skills in chemistry and your ability to observe what is going on, and having a good idea of how to make adjustments as needed, you can then learn more from doing, once you get some gold under your belt, you can more easily work with more complicated materials or learn other more complicated methods using your experience to guide your further study of workings.

Just as if your plan is to learn to build houses it would be best to learn how to saw boards and how to hammer nails, use the measuring tape, and transit before you begin learning how to build the roofing support rafters or before attempting to install and troubleshoot the electrical wiring system, or installing a sand filter septic system...


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