# Filter then urea or urea then filter



## cly9412 (Dec 25, 2011)

What is the proper way to do this.Should I filter my poormans AR that has dissolved ceramic cpu's first.Then add urea and then SMB.Or should I poor off my solution add urea then filter and then add smb
Filter then urea?
Urea then filter?


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## jimmydolittle (Dec 25, 2011)

Kill the nitric with urea, then filter.


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## cly9412 (Dec 25, 2011)

jimmydolittle said:


> Kill the nitric with urea, then filter.


OK thanks.I use a buckner funnel and a vacume hand pump.Then I like to use a spray bottle to wash the gold berring solution out of my filter.Can you add to much water and cause problems,say if were working with 100ml of poorman ar how much water would be to much.Or will the gold still fall from a solution that has more water in it than acid.


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## Geo (Dec 25, 2011)

Harold says theres no such thing as too dilute when talking about auric chloride. i dont think rinsing will put an excess amount of water into your solution.


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## qst42know (Dec 26, 2011)

If you need urea you are wasting chemicals.

How many times must your prepackaged recipe fail you before you stop and study the art?


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## cly9412 (Dec 26, 2011)

qst42know said:


> If you need urea you are wasting chemicals.
> 
> How many times must your prepackaged recipe fail you before you stop and study the art?


I've never had one fail.Thank You Very Much.I have had problems with a couple batches but I have allway gotton my gold out of them in the end.I have read the hokes book.And for this batch I did'nt have time to add sodium nitrate little by little so I had an excess of nitric.


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## philddreamer (Dec 26, 2011)

Cly wrote: "And for this batch I did'nt have time to add sodium nitrate little by little so I had an excess of nitric." 
Cly, I hope you learned a valuable lesson. 
"If you don't have enough time, don't start a process!" This is the main reason why many run into such problems, even serious injury & loss of values. Don't rush a process & don't skip the safe & proper steps.

Take care & be safe!

Phil


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## cly9412 (Dec 26, 2011)

philddreamer said:


> Cly wrote: "And for this batch I did'nt have time to add sodium nitrate little by little so I had an excess of nitric."
> Cly, I hope you learned a valuable lesson.
> "If you don't have enough time, don't start a process!" This is the main reason why many run into such problems, even serious injury & loss of values. Don't rush a process & don't skip the safe & proper steps.
> 
> ...


Dang Phil dont jinkes me.Get me all worried about hurting myself.I do take proper saftey mesures.I work all meterals outdoors and any time I'm near the solution weither it be filtering or anything I wear a gas mask with a NBC filter.While my cpu's are dissolving I dont go near it.


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## steyr223 (Dec 26, 2011)

Geo wrote "I don't think rinsing will put an excess of
Water into your solution"

What? When I use the garden hose I end up with
At least 40-50 gallons of excess of water
steyr223


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## niteliteone (Dec 26, 2011)

:shock: 
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Harold_V (Dec 27, 2011)

steyr223 said:


> Geo wrote "I don't think rinsing will put an excess of
> Water into your solution"
> 
> What? When I use the garden hose I end up with
> ...


Chuckle!

Well, I'm the guy that told him that excess water does no harm. It doesn't---but then I never added several gallons. :lol: If a guy has a few dwt. of gold in a couple liters of solution, no big deal. A gram in several gallons? Yeah, that might be a little extreme---but it can be recovered by conventional methods (precipitated), unlike the platinum metals. That's the real point. 

My policy was to keep solutions as concentrated as I could. That means you can use smaller vessels (those 4,000 ml beakers aren't cheap) and you have far less waste material to deal with when it comes time to dispose of them. 

Harold


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## barnes8888 (Jan 3, 2012)

dose any one know were i can buy the paper filters from iv looked on ebay but im not shour on what to buy any help please


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## philddreamer (Jan 3, 2012)

What kind of filters are you looking for? 
What are you filtering?

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=10154&p=97843&hilit=vacuum+filters#p97808

Maybe that will help.

Phil


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## Oz (Jan 6, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> My policy was to keep solutions as concentrated as I could. That means you can use smaller vessels (those 4,000 ml beakers aren't cheap) and you have far less waste material to deal with when it comes time to dispose of them.


Just so you guys and gals have a visual reference to what Harold is refering to by "concentrated", here is a pic of auric chloride at 40 Troy ounces per liter (it is still warm off the hotplate).View attachment 1
Here is what happens when that same solution was allowed to cool.


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 6, 2012)

Nice photos, Oz.


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## Geo (Jan 6, 2012)

what crystals are formed? is that AuCl crystals?


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## Oz (Jan 6, 2012)

Gold III Chloride, also known as Au2Cl6.


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## Photobacterium (Jan 6, 2012)

barnes8888 said:


> dose any one know were i can buy the paper filters from iv looked on ebay but im not shour on what to buy any help please



you can buy larger size coffee filters (11 inches diameter, 27.5 centimeters) at some office supply, they are for the coffee urns.

500 filters for $5.

same material as smaller coffee filters. good for some chemistry filtering but not all.


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## Geo (Jan 6, 2012)

ok, after a web search and quick look through a couple of books, it says that gold trichloride decomposes in light and is hygroscopic(pulls water from the air). is this true for all AuCl compounds? sorry about the questions but its hard to understand all the text in my chemistry books.


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## Dr. Poe (Jan 9, 2012)

Au2Cl6, Claret red monoclinic crystal prisms (with a trace of HAuCl4). Very nice! Dr. Poe


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## Dr. Poe (Jan 10, 2012)

Geo said:


> ok, after a web search and quick look through a couple of books, it says that gold trichloride decomposes in light and is hygroscopic(pulls water from the air). is this true for all AuCl compounds? sorry about the questions but its hard to understand all the text in my chemistry books.


With exception of sulfides, selenides and tellurides (which have a stable valency of +2) Gold ions are most stable at +3.
The +1 valency of AuCl is unstable and tends to decompose into 2 parts of +0 and one part of +3.
3 AuCl -> 2 Au + AuCl3 Au+1 gives 1.68 volts in reduction whereas Au+3 only gives 1.44 volts on reduction.
Gold oxides, sulfides, selenides and tellurides hate water (hydrophobic) where the trivalent gold chlorides, bromides tend to love water and are hygroscopic to 4 waters of crystallization. Of the halogens, only the iodides hate water and the fluorides are decomposed by water ( as are also the sulfates). The gold iodides love solutions of potassium iodide, but hate everything else. In contrast, the thiosulfates (AKA thionates) love water, acids and alkali solutions. Does this clear thing s up a bit?
Some believe that +2 gold ions are in reality a mix of +1 and +3 (not me).
Dr. Poe


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