# Smelting Operations in Thailand



## gaurav_347 (Mar 9, 2016)

All,

Hope you guys find this helpful in some way. They are processing jewelers workbench floor Mats in this video using copper as a collector metal if i am not wrong. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dW8_-9NODg

Here is another video demonstrating the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmFCpqf3esE

Regards,
Gaurav


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## 4metals (Mar 9, 2016)

They are inquarting with silver and parting in nitric. I question the effectiveness of the melt furnace to allow all of the beads to collect to the bottom. With a collector you are best if you use a rotary furnace to collect the metals in the pool of molten metal. I did sweeps in a rotary for years and we still processed all slags a second time and collected values. I would guess their slags are holding values.

On the other hand, they sure know how to stretch the life of a crucible!!!! 

Nice video to show just how effective inquartation is. Just shows you newer isn't necessarily better!


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 9, 2016)

No telling what they would recover if they cleaned the place up. :roll:


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## FrugalRefiner (Mar 9, 2016)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> No telling what they would recover if they cleaned the place up. :roll:


I would assume it's the owner's version of what Harold referred to as his retirement plan. 

I'm also glad I don't live _close_ down wind, though I know we're all downwind and all that smoke harms our planet.  

Dave


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## alexxx (Mar 9, 2016)

Another interesting one from the same shop.
Nitric leach & conversion to silver chloride / silver metal. 

http://youtu.be/Tf093Fq0TEo


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## 4metals (Mar 9, 2016)

They probably don't have more than a few hundred dollars invested in the entire refinery. 

The wood hoods will slowly break down to the point where they use them for fire wood to fire their incinerator.

I like the way they make silver shot, just pour it through a stainless steel screen.

I wonder why they don't cement their silver with copper to make more silver for inquarting? And save the silver chloride process for making their highest purity.


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## alexxx (Mar 10, 2016)

I have to say that I am quite impressed with their setup.
The only thing that is questionable is what they do with their waste.

I love the way they poor ag shots, I will try that.

Maybe they dont use copper to cement simply because salt, naoh & suger is cheaper.
Chinese will sell their copper instead of using it to cement.

In the previous videos, are they simply inquarting with ag or are they also using pb in their process ?

Alex


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## 4metals (Mar 10, 2016)

> The only thing that is questionable is what they do with their waste.



Judging from the equipment in the video's and their extensive safety gear for the workers, I doubt they treat it at all. Possibly they mix in caustic to settle out the hydroxides (which when dried can be payable for copper in quantity) but the liquids likely go unchecked down the drain. 

The degree of pollution from a shop like this is truly alarming. Some gripe in the US about how the government limits business with EPA regulations, well this video shows the other side of the coin.


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## nickvc (Mar 10, 2016)

4metals I'm not sure your right it looks like they are adding scrap copper wire in the first one and as this is Thailand they produce a lot of silver jewellery so I'm thinking that the copper is used as the collector with the already high level of silver present they wouldn't need to add more making parting cheap and easy, I could be wrong as you have more experience in this sort of set up than me.
The safety gear amuses me flip flops, wellington boots,t shirts and dust masks :shock: 
As for the waste well it's all washed away by the gallons of water thrown all over the floor :roll: 
I should imagine the whole area is toxic  
This is all done in the traditional ways which when they were doing small amounts probably did little environmental damage, now it's a global player there must be lots of similar set ups doing the same thing all over the place, you couldn't do that in many places without getting locked up.


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## 4metals (Mar 10, 2016)

> 4metals I'm not sure you're right it looks like they are adding scrap copper wire in the first one and as this is Thailand they produce a lot of silver jewellery so I'm thinking that the copper is used as the collector with the already high level of silver present they wouldn't need to add more making parting cheap and easy



I watched the video again and I did see the copper wire they had alongside the powder before they fluxed it and put it in the furnace. The only thing is if they were truly inquarting and making the % gold under 25% with copper, the color of the shot they produced as seen before the parting would have been much more copper colored. To me it seems silvery. 

If they are predominantly refining silver with a little gold, they may be adding copper to get to the 75% mark in a combination of silver + copper and then parting. Either way would work. In the second video, the color of the parting liquid they pour off is not a deep blue you would expect if it were all copper. 

Either one would be an effective collector. Silver would use less nitric to part. In the second video, they were parting those cupcake sized chunks of silver. That is interesting because most refiners would make shot to do a digestion. I bet they use larger pieces like that to slow down the reaction and generate less red cloud. Less surface area means slower reaction rate and less NOx per minute generated. Judging from their other pollution safeguards, I'm not quite so sure they care about that red cloud!


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 10, 2016)

nickvc said:


> The safety gear amuses me flip flops, wellington boots,t shirts and dust masks



Really, why would anyone work with such dangerous chemicals without adequate eye protection at least!?!


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## nickvc (Mar 10, 2016)

I bet none of them worry about athletes foot :shock: :lol:


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## gaurav_347 (Mar 10, 2016)

I guess they are using only copper as their collector metal then parting it with nitric acid. Nitric acid is available at a very cheap price at least in my country. We pay roughly USD 0.40/liter. I have a feeling that it will be a few cents cheaper in Thailand.


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## 4metals (Mar 10, 2016)

> We pay roughly USD 0.40/liter. I have a feeling that it will be a few cents cheaper in Thailand.



They are allowing cheap nitric to destroy their environment. Nitric easily puts many different metals into solution and that waste can destroy an ecosystem. As well as the fungus that causes Athlete's foot!

With nitric that cheap, inquartation is the only way to refine.


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## nickvc (Mar 10, 2016)

I used to have quite a few Asian jewellers as customers and their method to refine was to add copper and use nitric to remove the impurities, it's the standard method over much of Asia, it rarely produces exceptionally high grade gold but it's enough for their needs and quick and cheap.
That's one of the reasons I suspected they just added copper on that video, it's the way it has always been done.


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## nickton (Jul 9, 2018)

can't you treat the nitric afterwards to cement out the metals, then neutralize it with a base like lye, or baking soda? What is left after that? I guess these places don't have stock pots either.


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## anachronism (Jul 9, 2018)

nickton said:


> can't you treat the nitric afterwards to cement out the metals, then neutralize it with a base like lye, or baking soda? What is left after that? I guess these places don't have stock pots either.



I think it's about time you started looking up some of these chemical reactions yourself. They are freely available and you'd learn a great deal by doing so.


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## ashir (Nov 19, 2018)

awesome process if done with more safety.
i have a question about same process i watched 
that guy use borax, soda ash, lead to crushed mlccs.
later he use to make a pot and write" use ash and sodium bicarbonate" but in picture of that pot, he write" use sodium hydroxide and ash" i think he want remove lead. so what ash and which chamical should be use to make pot?


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## Geo (Nov 19, 2018)

Bone ash.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_ash


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## ashir (Nov 20, 2018)

thanks. if i use bone ash to make pot it will absorb lead. but can i use that pot as substitute of lead in my next process?


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## Behnam2070 (Dec 16, 2019)

How can I make a furnace like this?


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## Behnam2070 (Dec 17, 2019)

And what is the material of this crucible?


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