# please help problems with AR



## jonny823 (Feb 5, 2015)

hi all new here so please bare with me 
i done a test run with some depopulated mobile phone boards today
200ml of nitric - 600ml hcl 
all went well loverly gold coloured solution 
now this is where it went wrong 
used urea to neutralize the AR till all fizzing had stopped then added SMB to drop the gold 
now my solution has just gone to a light colored mush 
please help what am i doing wrong 
hope the refining gods can help me


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## jonny823 (Feb 5, 2015)

right after hurting my eyes reading up i believe ive added way to much nitric and i now have a salt build up 
so now ive slapped myself about the house any idea's how i can rectify this or shall i chuck my solution in the waste take and try again with less nitic ?


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 5, 2015)

jonny, too much nitric was just one of your mistakes. Don't throw anything away and you'll still have your gold. Keep reading. You're not ready to try again. Read up on the AP process to remove the gold foils from the boards. Study on how to recover the gold that is currently misplaced in your process, and then treating the waste. I like to recommend my Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum thread as a starting point.

Dave


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## jonny823 (Feb 5, 2015)

FrugalRefiner said:


> jonny, too much nitric was just one of your mistakes. Don't throw anything away and you'll still have your gold. Keep reading. You're not ready to try again. Read up on the AP process to remove the gold foils from the boards. Study on how to recover the gold that is currently misplaced in your process, and then treating the waste. I like to recommend my Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum thread as a starting point.
> 
> Dave




thank you so much for your reply i have done the AP before on ram fingers but after weeks of watching differant utube video's 
i thought i'd give this ago i have 2.5kg of depopulated mobile phone boards so just done 20 or so as a tester to see if it worked for me 
so maybe i will go down the AP route and keep the foils till i do more research


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 5, 2015)

jonny823 said:


> thank you so much for your reply i have done the AP before on ram fingers but after weeks of watching differant utube video's
> i thought i'd give this ago i have 2.5kg of depopulated mobile phone boards so just done 20 or so as a tester to see if it worked for me
> so maybe i will go down the AP route and keep the foils till i do more research


Our goal is to separate the base metals from the precious metals that make up our feedstock. Since our target is the more noble metals, it's usually a good practice to try to eliminate as many base metals as possible before dissolving the precious metals. When you dissolve the values, you'll have a much cleaner solution, so your gold will be much cleaner. 

You can dissolve everything in AR, like they show on youtube, but it's a waste of acid, creates more waste, and you'll end up with contamination in your gold. Take your time and soak in all the information on this forum.

Dave


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## jonny823 (Feb 5, 2015)

thanks again dave
ive now seperated the solids from the solution and kept them both seperate 
for a later date


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 5, 2015)

jonny823 said:


> thanks again dave
> ive now seperated the solids from the solution and kept them both seperate
> for a later date


As you study, pay attention to information about testing. Learn how to use stannous chloride (whtat Hoke refers to as testing solution A). You'll learn how to find out if your gold is in the liquid or the solids.

Dave


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## maynman1751 (Feb 6, 2015)

The use of urea is discouraged here. Use the right volume of nitric to begin with. Like Dave has instructed you to do, read up on the processes that you want to practice. Know what you're doing and the likely outcome before beginning. It takes quite a bit of time and study to learn these procedures, so don't be in a hurry or you will probably just screw up, like you did, and then have to ask to be bailed out. Read Hokes book and research all of the topics, in blue, under my signature line. That will get you started.


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## jonny823 (Feb 6, 2015)

maynman1751 said:


> The use of urea is discouraged here. Use the right volume of nitric to begin with. Like Dave has instructed you to do, read up on the processes that you want to practice. Know what you're doing and the likely outcome before beginning. It takes quite a bit of time and study to learn these procedures, so don't be in a hurry or you will probably just screw up, like you did, and then have to ask to be bailed out. Read Hokes book and research all of the topics, in blue, under my signature line. That will get you started.





thank you buddy i got the AR right as had nice gold solution it was the neutralizing that messed up so i mite AR all the stuff i have here then read my little mind 
to bits then try a test run i know now from reading the forum urea is a waste of space thanks again for your reply and help


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## patnor1011 (Feb 7, 2015)

How much of gold do you expect to see from 20 depopulated cell phone boards? And how much do you expect from 2,5 kilograms of them?

Just asking. Depopulated is what make me wonder. There is probably about 10x more of gold on components than on board itself.


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## jonny823 (Feb 7, 2015)

patnor1011 said:


> How much of gold do you expect to see from 20 depopulated cell phone boards? And how much do you expect from 2,5 kilograms of them?
> 
> Just asking. Depopulated is what make me wonder. There is probably about 10x more of gold on components than on board itself.




ive kept everything from the boards im not to sure what they would yeild to be honest i think ill just keep saving stuff up and take them to either a home refiner
or a bigger company i dont mind losing a % as i dread to think how much gold ive lost already ive kept the solution


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## butcher (Feb 7, 2015)

jonny823,

It sounds like you have good common sense. 
May I suggest something to help get you started?

Forget getting gold for the moment, but collect any scrap you can find that may contain value (preferably free scrap, until you have a good understanding of the values involved in any scrap you buy).

I also wouldn't worry about spending much on chemicals or lab equipment, until you know for sure what you need and why, a simple lab can be set up from the second hand store, and many chemicals can be found locally, several you can even learn to make if needed.

Begin with Hoke's book, and doing the experiments in her book, study the forum, a good place to begin is with dealing waste and the safety section, follow the forums guided tour to get introduced to the different processes.

After getting acquainted using the experiments in Hoke's book, and making and using test solutions, I would begin with memory fingers (study the copper II chloride leach (called acid peroxide) to recover foils, then study using HCl acid and bleach to refine the foils, this way you are working with a material that has less metals and problems, you will get better acquainted with reactions with less troublesome chemicals and metals.

Hoke's experiments if you pay close attention to the details will teach you many things you will need to understand about recovery and refining, they will give you an understanding of problems that can occur and how to avoid them, they will teach you many of the basic principles and methods you will need later to make more informed decisions.

These simple steps will put you leaps ahead of where you are now.

Although it may seem like it will take you longer to get gold from wasting your time by studying instead of doing experiments on your own, you will later find you will avoid many problems in recovery and refining by having a better understanding of the basics. you will in reality get the gold sooner, instead of wasting endless hours on failed experiments and not knowing where your gold is disappearing in the messes of failed experiments from mixing chemicals and metals blindly in the dark lab of not having a good understanding of the principles involved, and how these metals and acids and reagents work with each other...

Basically education is where we get our gold, and education is where we learn to recover and refine it, what we do to get that gold comes from us educating ourselves, melting the pure gold in our dish is the rewards of our time spent on that education.

So I can say you do not learn this from experimenting with what you think works.
But you learn this by educating yourself, and then experiment with what you know, to see how it works, and to get a better understanding of how to get better at doing it.

Education will get that pure gold in your dish, the sooner you concentrate on education, the sooner you will be melting that pure gold you recovered and refined.


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## jonny823 (Feb 22, 2015)

butcher said:


> jonny823,
> 
> It sounds like you have good common sense.
> May I suggest something to help get you started?
> ...





thank you very much for taking the time to reply bucher im currently reading hokes 
i will be reading it over and over as i can get my hands on lots of ram/cpu's/and internal cards very cheap 
would be handy if i could find a home refiner near me in the uk that i could take everything to including the acids 
and give them % that would work out ideal for me long term wise with having young kids and working full time i dont get alot of time to myself 
thanks again for your time in replying


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## Tomd (Mar 8, 2016)

Where are in the uk? im in the south west if you are close i mite be able to help with some things wouldnt expect a percentage for showing you my processes just happy to help and meet like minded people! Tom.


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## Anonymous (Mar 8, 2016)

It's a bit daunting at first Jonny. I remember it well. Bear with it and it gets better- - until you hit the next brick all of course but that's half the fun. 8) 8) 

Jon


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## Anonymous (Mar 8, 2016)

Tomd said:


> Where are in the uk? im in the south west if you are close i mite be able to help with some things wouldnt expect a percentage for showing you my processes just happy to help and meet like minded people! Tom.




There's a coincidence- we have another member in Devon who has exactly the same way of expressing himself in words as you! 8)


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## nickvc (Mar 8, 2016)

Jonny you say you can get lots of gear cheap, what sort of quantities and at what price?
I'm asking because the price and quantity could be a no go if it's too small an amount or it's costing you too much.


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## Tomd (Mar 10, 2016)

> There's a coincidence- we have another member in Devon who has exactly the same way of expressing himself in words as you!



? :|


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