# Need some advice



## ZHillyard (Apr 8, 2012)

I have been browsing the forums, but my only net access is currently a phone. Having trouble finding the answers I need.

I am halfway through Hoke's book, and I have thus far put together my laundry list for basic supplies using his Simplest method in chapter one. I am interested in buying acids in cadoys, the rental/lease deposit fee isn't an issue for me either.. I am near Austin tex. 

Gold is my main concern right now. I have 9 lbs of fingers and pins, all mainly from boards dating back to the eighties. Over one hundred hard drives dating from 84 to 2007, psus, 40-50 cpus of mainly old 486s and 386s, a box of aluminum boards from Cisco systems that have more gold plated wings then i bloody know what to do with and 300 sticks of ram untouched as of yet.

If this is going to be worth my time, all i need is acid. Any suggestions, comments or tips would be helpful. I am a noob.

Edit; i have 26 of these Cisco boards. They pair with the Aa2110 power supply units. I have ten of those. Random scanners, 100 plus floppy drives. A lot of my boards are Texas instruments now that i look at them.


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## maynman1751 (Apr 8, 2012)

Finish reading Hokes, keep studying, searching the forum and gathering your materials. Do the get acquainted tests that Hoke suggests. Make some stannous testing solution. When you think you're ready to proceed, ask specific questions *BEFORE* attempting a process if you are unsure.
This is just for starters!!!! I'm sure other members will give you further advice!


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## Geo (Apr 8, 2012)

Texas is one of the least tolerant states to try and be a home refiner.i understand its a crime to possess some of the glassware and lab equipment needed for refining.you may have to find alternative means to refine your material or consider selling it as is or maybe sending it to a refiner and have them do the work for you.

good luck.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 8, 2012)

I don't know if it's illegal to own certain labware in Texas. I do know it's illegal to sell certain items commercially if the buyer doesn't have a state lab ID number.


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## steyr223 (Apr 8, 2012)

Hello
You asked is it worth my time
That all depends on how much your time is worth
I can tell you one thing if all the time I put into
Learning this hobby added to all the time In cleaning
my boards,pins,fingers, processors, flatbacks,etc..
Added to my actual process 
and this is if I didn't make a mistake :mrgreen:
Way way way less then minimum wage : :shock: shock: 
So , how much is your time worth?
Steyr223


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## element47 (Apr 8, 2012)

> If this is going to be worth my time, all i need is acid. Any suggestions, comments or tips would be helpful. I am a noob.



Not true. You need acid for *some* processes, but concurrent with that you need safety gear and for some processes, dedicated glassware or containers of some sort. Plus you need some other chemicals. 

"If this is going to be worth my time, all i need is acid." <<<<<----I really don't understand the construction of this sentence. 

I think what the forum would like to hear is something like 

"If this is going to be worth my time, all i need is....

an idea of what my potential yield is.
a tight list of all the safety gear and chemicals required.
a thorough understanding of what the processes are, how they differ, which specific processes are used an what type of input materials
a place to carry out the processes
a method of heating/melting the yield 
the ability to leave some process in place allowing them to settle for sometimes a few days, without fear of children or pets wandering by
a method or plan to dispose of the wastes generated

Every "interested party" sees the gold at the end but in 99% of cases does not appreciate the work, patience, care, and study that goes into making the process work. Because we have all observed this so many times, this must be human nature. To want the end result without wanting to or believing that the work and study and prep required is somehow necessary. That all these old fools who successfully refine gold are doing all this unnecessary work and taking all these superfluous steps when anyone can see that you just....

melt it all together
dump it in acid
and get a Johnson Matthey ingot at the end. 

I'm not picking on you. Any time someone wishes a "summary" of the steps required "to refine gold" they have clearly not spent enough time studying the essential materials (Hoke) or really, really pondered whether this effort is worth it given ALLLLLL the stuff that's necessary, not just that glitter at the end. My, myself, I have concluded that it is not, but that's just my own conclusion based upon my present circumstances. I'm nevertheless fascinated by it all and admire the folks who can make it work for them. My own personal conclusion is that biggest amount of profit is generated by folks who buy scrap jewelry and resell it to refiners and never touch a single chemical. Of course, to do that, they must buy well under market and know darn well what they are doing so they do not make a bad mistake and overpay for junk. Ahhhh. There's that skill element again. 

The takeaway I am trying to leave you with is that refining is lots more tedious than it appears on first, second, and third glance, and that all the rigamarole that the successful refiners go through (that you can't see, anyway, because you are on a forum and not in their shop) isn't being done because these guys have too much time on their hands.


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## Photobacterium (Apr 8, 2012)

Geo said:


> Texas is one of the least tolerant states to try and be a home refiner.i understand its a crime to possess some of the glassware and lab equipment needed for refining.you may have to find alternative means to refine your material or consider selling it as is or maybe sending it to a refiner and have them do the work for you.
> 
> good luck.



that being the case, perhaps it is appropriate to mention

http://www.boardsort.com/

will pay $4 a pound for old motherboards, $125 a pound for 486 CPU's, etc.

maybe keep some gold fingers so you can start learning the methods.

all you need is a few plastic buckets and some oversize coffee filters ... AND GOOD VENTILATION ... and some dilute HCL (muriatic) and some Hydrogen Peroxide and some Clorox - can't imagine those are illegal in Texas.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 8, 2012)

Thank you all for the responses. I will continue to research; going to finish the book tonight. I have access to hydrochloric and caustic in small amounts free of charge from work, and i am Hazmat certified as a trucker and medical it courier; so I am familiar with acid safety. I had planned on subbing the nitric for Ishores SubZero, and originally asked about their Singularity, which led me here when i realized it was a bunk idea to go with thair dumb machine. I do not want to jump the gun here, but i have an entire 2br apartment now filled with computers. Time is of no concern to me, and i am not going to sell at scrap prices when i feel like i am sitting on a gold mine. For the money, for the science and for the fun.

A man died and we aquired all of this. I have an entire electronics workshop in here now basically. I have learned to solder and gotten pretty efficient at stripping boards completely down. This fella was an old electronics hoarder and engineer. The money i am making from selling items on ebay justifies me sitting on the gold as long as rent is paid. It is an investment, but i have a good 2 months of buffer here currently.


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## butcher (Apr 8, 2012)

For me a two bedroom apartment full of computers does not sound like much gold, or a gold mine, there can be some gold in them, but would it be enough to pay electric bill?


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## ZHillyard (Apr 8, 2012)

Ill have to take pictures. I have no cases. It is all boxes of mobos, lan cards, sound cards, etc. Like i said before, i have 9lbs of lean fingers and pins already. I saw a man do a similar project with photos on this forum, and he got 23 grams out of 7 lbs of roughly the same material i have an abundance of. I figured that was a pretty good basis for comparison, and he used the AR method. Call me naive but i like the numbers and have estimated my total finger and pin weight to be between 30 and 40 lbs. when it is all cleaned.

The apt is an unfinished unit rented as storage. I pay 200 a month and whatever it costs me to run a lightbulb and some small electronics. Lol. We use it for storing goods for sale. I buy and sell craigslist and ebay a lot. This stuff is now taking up storage space for other goods and will lose me money in the long term if it just sits here. The main thing is it was all FREE. 

Also just aquired a military chem suit. I imagine that might help, too?


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## ZHillyard (Apr 8, 2012)

After more reading, I stand by my original statement: All I need is nitric acid. Everything else mentioned in the book is easily obtainable and financially feasible locally. 

I do not need advice on the processes when i have common sense, a book (reccomended by this forum, no less) and the ability to read.... 

The lab license seems to be the problem i will run into. Thanks for that bit. That is all i needed here.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Apr 8, 2012)

ZHillyard said:


> After more reading, I stand by my original statement: All I need is nitric acid. Everything else mentioned in the book is easily obtainable and financially feasible locally.
> 
> I do not need advice on the processes when i have common sense, a book (reccomended by this forum, no less) and the ability to read....
> 
> The lab license seems to be the problem i will run into. Thanks for that bit. That is all i needed here.



ROFLMAO!!! :twisted: You think so huh..


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## butcher (Apr 8, 2012)

It does seem so easy, and so profitable, until we learn better.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 8, 2012)

I know so. All I originally asked and wanted to know asked was where to locate nitric acid near Austin Texas, but this is the internet, of course. I don't mind making a fool of myself, i just need help doing it. 

All this chemistry and people gotta get their ego on when a man wants to experiment...? When i get all my supplies in, mess something up, then ill come ask for help instead of advice.


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## Geo (Apr 8, 2012)

uh-oh. the trick is to do the process right the first time.if you continue the way you are, you will definitely need some help. learn the processes first before you ask because if you think you got flamed on the question just wait till you come back asking how to get your gold back. :roll: 

the afore mentioned chem-suit you spoke of,yea well it will not filter out nitrogen dioxide. while your coughing up blood you may find that your alarm clock quit working because you were working in your apartment.


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## butcher (Apr 8, 2012)

ZHillyard, 
Do not take it personally. 
We all had to learn, I made the same assumptions, and many of the mistakes you will make.
I am not making fun of you, but we are trying to get you to see some of the things we learned the hard way, so maybe you will not have to make the same mistakes to learn.

I hope you do have a gold mine, and study to learn to recover it all safely.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 8, 2012)

Thanks. I guess this just seems counterproductive when Hokes book says to follow his steps in the book; this is the easiest method, get good at this, continue on. I can read this thing 5 times and sit here digging through forum posts and YouTube videos to fill the gaps. Following steps requires having the necessary materials.

And if someone thinks i am dumb enough to actually refine in my apt... Lololol... Lol..... The dumb man might have a workshop in the country on a farm where he can do such kinds of work without dying or going to jail...

I understand the money blunders, and maybe i am wrong. I won't argue there. I still wanna do it just so i can say i did. If i pay for materials and expenses, i lose no money.

I already put a good 80 hours into stripping pins and fingers. I want to run the 9lbs i have, see what it gives me and go from there. Excuse me for being butt hurt. I am putting all my free time into this. It is sentimental at this point. Average Joe thinks tharr be no gold in nothin, i am craaazy, and Gold Joe has heard it all before and is jaded. Lol..... I get it.
Im going to go talk to some local jewelers tomorrow when everything is open.


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## Geo (Apr 8, 2012)

yields vary of coarse. it takes on average 15 pounds of close cut fingers to make a ounce of gold. if you have header pins it may average 0.28g per pound unless you took the time to cut off the excess base metal.slot connector pins yield even less because the gold plating is on the very tips.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 9, 2012)

I will post pics of the apt. tomorrow. My Cisco boards are yielding almost 3 ounces of pins per board.

To rephrase myself: i am lacking nitric acid. I have ebayed or found locally everything on Hokes basic list. I do understand the legality with Texas, and what i choose to do there is on me. All of the glassware and porcelain pieces i already have (hobby lobby chemistry sets), as well as about 15 coffee pots. I have a 10lb bag of urea from work, and i can store my acids in 5 gallon hazmat drums from work also, used acids in one gallon mason jars. 

All hand stripping is done in the apt on a bench. All refining will be done in my ventilated workshop out of city limits. 

At this point, i figure i will order subzero from shore, and a precipitant, use the available muriatic and caustic i have access to and run only my plated gold pieces.

Sound like a plan to anyone? Maybe my head was up my butt. I type all of this on a phone, and i think i miss a lot anyway.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 9, 2012)

I will post pics of the apt. tomorrow. My Cisco boards are yielding almost 3 ounces of pins per board.

To rephrase myself: i am lacking nitric acid. I have ebayed or found locally everything on Hokes basic list. I do understand the legality with Texas, and what i choose to do there is on me. All of the glassware and porcelain pieces i already have (hobby lobby chemistry sets), as well as about 15 coffee pots. I have a 10lb bag of urea from work, and i can store my acids in 5 gallon hazmat drums from work also, used acids in one gallon mason jars. 

All hand stripping is done in the apt on a bench. All refining will be done in my ventilated workshop out of city limits. 

At this point, i figure i will order subzero from shore, and a precipitant, use the available muriatic and caustic i have access to and run only my plated gold pieces.

Sound like a plan to anyone? Maybe my head was up my butt. I type all of this on a phone, and i think i miss a lot anyway.


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## steyr223 (Apr 9, 2012)

We or I don't think your dumb,in fact you come
Off very well spoken and you have a good attitude

I believe what you say 
Maybe you could post your intended procedure 
step by step for recovery and refining of your gold
and of course including your safety steps and disposal Of your waste.

By the way the 23 grams for 7lbs were for close cut fingers not pins and I believe were from very high yield isa cards and done by an experienced refiner 
Also something this form would want to hear is how you intend on testing for gold in solution and that you understand how to make and store
your testing solution (this is very important)
Good luck . I wish for you an empty apartment and a
Few nice buttons.
Steyr223


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## steyr223 (Apr 9, 2012)

Opps sorry I didn't see the previous posts
I am also on a phone it is difficult for you type more than
a page is it the same for you
What kind off phone
You can always hook up 1 of your computers
and tether your phone for internet depending on
Your carrier.
Steyr223


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## martyn111 (Apr 9, 2012)

ZHillyard said:


> At this point, i figure i will order subzero from shore, and a precipitant, use the available muriatic and caustic i have access to and run only my plated gold pieces.



My suggestion would be to read up and visit lasersteves site, your subject of study being the sulphuric cell if you are intending to process a large amount of gold plated material, your waste stream will be massive if you intend using AR on your pins.


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## jimdoc (Apr 9, 2012)

ZHillyard said:


> At this point, i figure i will order subzero from shore, and a precipitant



That sounds like one mistake you could, and should avoid.

Jim


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## nickvc (Apr 9, 2012)

I know we all seem pessimistic and doom mongers but most of us have been where you are.
It's not impossible for you to recover and refine your e scrap and if your intent on doing so this is the place to learn, at the feet of the masters and I don't count myself amongst them, as we have members who do this sort of material all day, every day.
Read Hoke, her book is the starting point for any new wannabe refiner, the simple to understand language makes sense of many of the chemicals used and processes, the bad news it was written in the 1930s so e scrap isn't mentioned. While her teaching is sinking in follow her testing and getting aquatinted advice especially the use of stannous, and then read the forum handbooks and the safety section, a visit to lasersteves site would also pay dividends.
This should give you a plan of how to start, did you notice I said recover and refine earlier, this is important to remember as direct dissolution of much e scrap will give you major problems that can be avoided if you follow the processes outlined and discussed frequently on the forum.
You can still be working towards your goal by preparing your scrap for recovery and don't be blinded by gold fever there are other values in e scrap to recover but that's something you will learn as you start your adventure.
Good luck.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 15, 2012)

Well, after talking to some locals I have decided to go with the hydrochloric. I ended up getting myself a gallon of it to play around with and I have been working on setting my bench area up this week and
building myself a fume hood. I am going to try reverse electroplating on just my fine pins and shaving using the hc and see how that little experiment goes. I've currently got the stuff stored in a mason jar with a seal I fabbed up from a pvc soap bucket; it seems to be working pretty good so far. I'm still alive at least.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 15, 2012)

steyr223 said:


> Opps sorry I didn't see the previous posts
> I am also on a phone it is difficult for you type more than
> a page is it the same for you
> What kind off phone
> ...




Thanks for that bit. Yeah, that's what I'm doing now. My phone took concrete-dive and I was
waiting to get a new one after the insurance was approved. I was on a Dinosaur LG.


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## dtectr (Apr 16, 2012)

My friend 
I also use a dumb smartphone and get the frustration ;-(
On the next point(s) :
If you are getting info anywhere on the web but this site and lazersteve's, then you are doomed for disappointment- sound cocky? I've been exactly where you are, my friend. I ask you to believe me though you have no reason to do so, yet. The issue is this - NONE of us had all the skills/experience/background to make this pay when we started. Many of us fell for the bullshit on youtube and wasted time and money on misleading claims by folks like Shor. 
I didn't know dick about everything involved when I started - in fact, I began based on misleading info posted by someone trying to sell cpu's, not a member. It got me started, though, and I soon saw the limits of my current wisdom, but how it prepared of to learn all the new stuff, too. I learned this - unless i've refined before, I don't understand what it will take. BUT THESE GUYS HERE DO AND WILL HELP YOU TO SUCCEED but you have to realize your need for their help. 
I think Longfellow said,in "the coach": "he who spreads a breast broader than mine [or an athlete I train who exceeds my accomplishments ] proves better the true width of mine [proves how much skill I really have]. "
Put your pride in your pocket and learn from these master coaches and you may wind us better than us all. 
One more thing, take Shor out of your vocabulary and never mention it again, unless you wish to disparage them as I do.


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## Dan Dement (Apr 16, 2012)

ZH,

What the other memebers of the forum do not understand is the one of the statement that you made is the fact that you are in Austin Texas. I was born and raised in Austin and have a brother that is long time in a related law enforcement position. Not a more difficult place to do in the US than Austin. Understand, the return on what you are doing is going to be in 1% range in metal not including your costs. Your chances of having some large legal expenses is very high and explaining what you are doing before a judge is far higher because of your location. My suggestion is to find a local refiner and don't try to do it yourself. I understand that you see a gold mine in all the boards and I understand that you are on a limited budget. You already have over 100 hours of your time in this project but you have a much bigger chance of having time invested in custody than having a profit in your experiments. You might contact our member, Lobby, who is a 30 year chemist to help you extract your metals.

Whatever he charges you, it's far cheaper than the $300. per hour that any attorney is going to charge you. Love Austin, own lots of property there, but understand it far better than most. I not trying to discourage you and have many pounds to military plated pins of the same thing. Just know what the return is and your location is not the place that is going to forgiving and understanding. Expect to be explaining that you don't have a methd lab and have the entire State Air Quality, EPA, DPS, Office of Consumer Affairs giving you an inspection. Do you have your Gold Buyers license from DPS? Only a $50,000 fine! Need I say more?

Good Luck,
Dan


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## ZHillyard (Apr 17, 2012)

Dan Dement said:


> ZH,
> 
> What the other memebers of the forum do not understand is the one of the statement that you made is the fact that you are in Austin Texas. I was born and raised in Austin and have a brother that is long time in a related law enforcement position. Not a more difficult place to do in the US than Austin. Understand, the return on what you are doing is going to be in 1% range in metal not including your costs. Your chances of having some large legal expenses is very high and explaining what you are doing before a judge is far higher because of your location. My suggestion is to find a local refiner and don't try to do it yourself. I understand that you see a gold mine in all the boards and I understand that you are on a limited budget. You already have over 100 hours of your time in this project but you have a much bigger chance of having time invested in custody than having a profit in your experiments. You might contact our member, Lobby, who is a 30 year chemist to help you extract your metals.
> 
> ...



If someone could give me an alternative, other than a large refinery, in a do-it-yourself home system on a current budget of $2500, I would pay for that right now. If there is a licensed chemist near me that can legally do the job on all of my metal; I would pay him on an hourly + equipment fees. I'm NOT paying a % of my gold recovered and I think I've read enough to find that to be the one solution I want to avoid. If I went that route I was going to go with American Recycling in Dallas.

If there is a chemist on this forum who wants to give me a rough price on your time, equipment costs and other needs, I would mail my material out of state and let a reputable member of this forum do the job for me. If someone likes that idea and has enough support around here then I think I could let that idea fly. Could use an ebay private auction to clear up the legal crap unless you have a business license or DBA. I obviously wouldn't be putting anyone on a tight time-schedule, either. That could be discussed. 

Thanks, Dan, duly noted. The law always makes sense. 
That is a pretty big damn number. I did not think about the meth lab, and I'm already on that page.
They don't knock on your door and whip out badges when they suspect that crap around here (but you know that.)
-- I'd rather not have a gun pointed at me.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 17, 2012)

dtectr said:


> My friend
> I also use a dumb smartphone and get the frustration ;-(
> On the next point(s) :
> If you are getting info anywhere on the web but this site and lazersteve's, then you are doomed for disappointment- sound cocky? I've been exactly where you are, my friend. I ask you to believe me though you have no reason to do so, yet. The issue is this - NONE of us had all the skills/experience/background to make this pay when we started. Many of us fell for the bullshit on youtube and wasted time and money on misleading claims by folks like Shor.
> ...



I'm a 25 y/o music major. -- Wait, why are you looking at me like that...? That's why I'm broke all the time and have to work poo-poo jobs and come up with
ideas like refining gold. It was like Santa dumped a bunch of free s*** down my chimney in April and left a note that said "Good luck, ***hole. You weren't
good enough to get anything for Christmas, so I'm feeling sorry for you: here's a bunch of free gold from a really nice old crazy military electronics engineering genius
who happened to work for Solectron and had a 30-year career at Ft. Hood, and was a hoarder of everything that plugged into the wall. Find a way to sell all of this gold s*** crap and keep all of the
cool stuff for yourself.... Keep it all..... Keeeeeep it." -- Yeah, I know, Santa is kind of messed up or this is some kind of messed up karma.

I have an Osborne 1 now with 3 working printers and included software. Extra drives, cables. The original Microsoft word, excel and there is a plotter that goes with it -- I could make $2-300 on that alone, and that is just a start of a long list, but I really don't wanna.. -- Okay, this is probably God, actually-- or the ghost of the guy who owned this stuff. I now want to keep all of his stuff--and I am willing to pay for it--like he did. Crazy? I just might be. I'm jerking off to vintage computers at night. Women? You should see some of this s***. I don't leave my house. There are so many military books, too... I'm a kid.. A crazy, happy.. happy kid.


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## old thompson (Apr 17, 2012)

"All i need is nitric" kind of sounds like "all I need to know is how to fly the plane, nevermind landing."


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## ZHillyard (Apr 18, 2012)

old thompson said:


> "All i need is nitric" kind of sounds like "all I need to know is how to fly the plane, nevermind landing."


I repostep what i meant. Nitric was the only ingredient i cannot get.


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## Palladium (Apr 18, 2012)

Send it to me, but i'm going to charge you a percentage to. That's how this business works. You pay a percentage whether you pay it in lot process fees or in material recovery, or when you sell it outright. Do you think you can come out any cheaper by hiring some one by time and materials? My time is worth a whole lot more that a lawyer for sure and if you sell the material outright you still ain't going to come out ahead either. Try ara and i think you will be surprised when you see what happens there. Their has to be a medium somewhere and that medium is at the end of the day we all have to feed our family.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 18, 2012)

Palladium said:


> Send it to me, but i'm going to charge you a percentage to. That's how this business works. You pay a percentage whether you pay it in lot process fees or in material recovery, or when you sell it outright. Do you think you can come out any cheaper by hiring some one by time and materials? My time is worth a whole lot more that a lawyer for sure and if you sell the material outright you still ain't going to come out ahead either. Try ara and i think you will be surprised when you see what happens there. Their has to be a medium somewhere and that medium is at the end of the day we all have to feed our family.



No, not cheaper. I want to be able to see clear results from an individual rather than a large corporation. Then, the next time I do it and go to the large guy I'll have a good comparison.

-- Or I'll just keep watching Lazersteve's videos and looking up at that lightbulb glowing over my head. The simplest things get missed sometimes.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 18, 2012)

Palladium said:


> Send it to me, but i'm going to charge you a percentage to. That's how this business works. You pay a percentage whether you pay it in lot process fees or in material recovery, or when you sell it outright. Do you think you can come out any cheaper by hiring some one by time and materials? My time is worth a whole lot more that a lawyer for sure and if you sell the material outright you still ain't going to come out ahead either. Try ara and i think you will be surprised when you see what happens there. Their has to be a medium somewhere and that medium is at the end of the day we all have to feed our family.



No, not cheaper. I want to be able to see clear results from an individual rather than a large corporation. Then, the next time I do it and go to the large guy I'll have a good comparison from a source that I trust. Run a few small batches of my material to get an idea of some potential yields (I am not worried about the material paying the bill, but it may only just do that.) If I think it's worth it after that, I'll take it to the big guy.

-- Or I'll just keep watching Lazersteve's videos and looking up at that lightbulb glowing over my head. The simplest things get missed sometimes. "there was no aqua regia used" -- "there was no aqua regia used" -- "there was no aqua regia used." Well--- That summed up a lot for me Steve. :roll: :idea: :idea: :idea: durrdudrrurrurrr.. durrr.... urr...


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## nickvc (Apr 18, 2012)

While you may not be able to refine your material you may well be able to affect a recovery via the various processes outlined here on the forum. Remember the two are distinct ares of the same business but with recovery you can use more readily available chemicals such as hydrochloric and sulphuric, the hydrochloric can be used to remove tin before you either create AP to remove base metals or use the sulphuric cell to strip the gold and leave the base metals intact. While this may not be perfect it will at least leave you with a smaller amount of values and anything not worth the effort such as motherboards can be sold. If you end up with reasonable amount of flake and you want to you could always use the Chlorox method to do the refining process, nitric isn't always necessary and many members struggle to source it hence the various work around methods used here on the forum.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 18, 2012)

nickvc said:


> While you may not be able to refine your material you may well be able to affect a recovery via the various processes outlined here on the forum. Remember the two are distinct ares of the same business but with recovery you can use more readily available chemicals such as hydrochloric and sulphuric, the hydrochloric can be used to remove tin before you either create AP to remove base metals or use the sulphuric cell to strip the gold and leave the base metals intact. While this may not be perfect it will at least leave you with a smaller amount of values and anything not worth the effort such as motherboards can be sold. If you end up with reasonable amount of flake and you want to you could always use the Chlorox method to do the refining process, nitric isn't always necessary and many members struggle to source it hence the various work around methods used here on the forum.



Thanks. I am going to follow Steve's videos and make some attempts at recovery.


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## ZHillyard (Apr 19, 2012)

Just finished up at my workshop apartment for the day and thought I'd take a picture or two of my workspace for part-stripping. What's in the rubbermaids is what I have collected since sunday. The content weight of the tubs was right around 5 lbs. I have two more at home completely filled, both are more of the same materials as the two pictured here. Not sure how many processors I have total, but it's somewhere just over 100 that have been plucked out so far and I keep finding more.


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## abid7210 (Apr 19, 2012)

any one help me to converting silver chloride in to silver with hcl and aluminum mated


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## philddreamer (Apr 19, 2012)

Abid, I believe is sulphuric & aluminum, not HCl & aluminum.

If a remember correctly, at Lazersteve's website there's a video showing the process.

Take care!

Phil

P.S.
I couldn't find it at Lazersteve's website, maybe a saw it somewhere else. Sorry!

But check here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4209&p=35953&hilit=metallic+silver+with+sulphuric#p35953


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## Geo (Apr 19, 2012)

diluted sulfuric and soft steel. its best to do this before the silver chloride dries. add dilute sulfuric to cover the material well, then place a piece of steel in that is large enough to retrieve after the reaction is complete.

another process that works with either dry or wet silver chloride is (if dry, add water to cover material) add caustic soda (potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide) until all the material has turned grey then let it set for a few minutes. add sugar water (as much as will dissolve in a cup of warm water) slowly and stir well.this process builds heat so add a little and stir to expose the material to the sugar and let the heat dissipate before adding more until all the grey has been converted to metal. the appearance will change and its not hard to see.


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## butcher (Apr 19, 2012)

Silver chloride can be converted to silver metal using aluminum and HCl.

The aluminum chloride I do not like to deal with as a waste. So I usually use the sodium hydroxide and Karo syrup method, or the iron and dilute sulfuric acid method. You can find more about these methods by using the search tool, also reading about this in the silver section of the forum, so much has been written on this subject, that reading these older post will give you much more information, than a person answering your question now, also reading these older posts you will learn many other things while this one question is getting an answer.

Here is some to get you started on conversion of silver chloride, asking the question in the search tool using different terms can also give you much more.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q ... s_occt=any

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=2373

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_o ... s_occt=any

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q ... s_occt=any

Use this search it can help to answer many questions.

http://goldrecovery.us/forum_search.asp


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## ZHillyard (Apr 21, 2012)

So I have a question. I'm not sure if this is even possible. Did some searches on the forum and found nothing.

I am going to remove the solder masking on my gold-plated boards, however I just figured I'd resell them since I don't have an efficient way of processing them and it would make them more aesthetic for resell-- then I got to thinking archaic.

After I clean the boards off and de-mask them, I know general incineration is a no-no so the small guy has a hard time with them. Would it be possible to take the finely ground
board material and run it through a layered sleuth box (repeatedly if need be) to remove the cloth and epoxies (or at least a good majority of it) and recover the metal material and
go about the normal recovery process from there? Granted, I reckon I'd still have a bit of a mudball, but I figured that might be easier to work with and be less pollution if I had to melt it that way or
I could just collect what I have and try it with a batch of AP. Then I could just get rid of the excess wastes through a local center.


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## butcher (Apr 21, 2012)

ZHillyard
I do not know for sure, but I believe the entire fiberglass, epoxies and finely ground metals would be very hard to separate by gravity methods.

But this is just my guess, you could try it and see how good my guess is or is not.


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## Geo (Apr 21, 2012)

i have incinerated enough PCB's to know that there are different layers of copper foils than just the both outsides. if you want to dissolve the copper using AP, then the only copper to deal with is the copper under the gold. if you grind the boards or incinerate them you will release the copper layers inside the board leaving more base metal to deal with. you should find a method of removing the gold from the front and back as is or sell them that way.


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## lazersteve (Apr 22, 2012)

I have several videos of the silver chloride conversions. They are in the silver section of the main site.

I used sulfuric acid and iron, but you can use HCl and iron, zinc, or aluminum if you like.

Zinc and 5% HCl works very fast compared to iron and 5% sulfuric acid. Zinc is also much easier than iron to clean out of the resulting silver.

Steve


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## ZHillyard (Apr 23, 2012)

Geo said:


> i have incinerated enough PCB's to know that there are different layers of copper foils than just the both outsides. if you want to dissolve the copper using AP, then the only copper to deal with is the copper under the gold. if you grind the boards or incinerate them you will release the copper layers inside the board leaving more base metal to deal with. you should find a method of removing the gold from the front and back as is or sell them that way.



Noted Geo. I decided to cherry pick the boards with surface gold using a dremmel; that has worked really good but takes a little time. After I have hand-picked
my pins and other goodies off of the boards I am pre-prepping them for solder mask removal by depopulating the boards in an electric skillet with about a half inch
of silica in the bottom. This has worked really well so far. Little bit of a pain dragging the boards back and forth from the apartment to the shop, but I am liking the results.

As far as stripping the surface gold goes, would it be possible to try experimenting the the electrolytic system? Say I cut my cleaned, surface-plated boards into my
electro dish and using the copper mesh anode. If I layed a bed of my cheap pins on the anode and then sandwiched my boards in small squares on top of those pins
with another layer of pins on top of the boards, would I be able to see any results? Or does this even sound feasible? I say this because the pieces I am picking off of my boards
are typically plated foundations on the board for IC chips. Most of them are 2x2/3x3 inch squares after I cut them loose.


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## Geo (Apr 23, 2012)

yes, it can be done. each circuit must be charged. after you cut a component off the circuit is broken. boards with finger connectors can be rigged with a bridge to contact all the fingers at once out of two flat pieces of copper or stainless steel. i havent done so myself, but ive seen slot connectors processed the same way with a flat piece of copper plate without removing the pins from the plastic.it may take some trial and error, but if you have the patience and determination you should be able to make it work.


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