# a sure way to get your hands on some gold.



## DeadDOG

a crazy man in alaska is selling bags of dirt for 50 bucks.
not all bags have the same amount of gold in them.
but in my tests (even recored a video of the last one and uploaded to youtube in my sig.) with the size of the nugget i found. it seems i can sell it for the 50-60 bucks i paid for bag. then all the rest of the gold (the fines and flakes of gold in the pan are mine free almost 2nd day shipping on just one bag was $12 not bad. so i am left with about 1/8 to 1/16 of an ounce of gold. with gold at $777 an ounce i left with a little over $100 bucks of gold. not bad if i do not say so my self.

watch the video if you want the info on where to get the gold.
also he gives out free samples of dirt so why not try panning some gold.

i was told next year he will be rasing his prices.


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## aflacglobal

> so i am left with about 1/8 to 1/16 of an ounce of gold



Well don't know if i believe the Folgers in the coffee bag Trick, But if you recovered that amount remember that it is not pure. Once you refine it you will have less than you actually started with. Have you had a chance to run a few bags and see what the average recovery is after refining?


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## Noxx

It's interesting but I don't really believe it...


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## DeadDOG

the gold it 22k gold. silver and a little copper.

and get your own free sample bag.
just send in 2 41 cent stamps and he mail it back to you.

http://www.felixpaydirt.com/form.html

find out for yourself also try youtube for some quick how to pan videos.
or the outdoor channel.
gold recovery for fine gold dust is about the same as you need to recover gold from anything. and the info will help you out in your gold refining of old computer parts and stuff.

you can get all this info from the GPAA here there web link also.

http://www.goldprospectors.org/
lots of good stuff there about gold recovery.


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## DeadDOG

aflacglobal said:


> so i am left with about 1/8 to 1/16 of an ounce of gold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well don't know if i believe the Folgers in the coffee bag Trick, But if you recovered that amount remember that it is not pure. Once you refine it you will have less than you actually started with. Have you had a chance to run a few bags and see what the average recovery is after refining?
Click to expand...


well the fine gold the really fine flower i will melt down the rest i going to sell as is seeing they mount it on rings and watches. so it sells more as it is. the nuggets are worth more then 2 x there wait in gold for makeing pendents and stuff (real gold nugget pendent)


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## blueduck

The bags of paydirt are one way for prospectors to make a living without trying to recover all the gold on their own which can get expensive in time and labor even in a very good placer deposit, by selling to folks who are learning to pan or are wanting gold from different parts of the world the bags of paydirt are a way for them to extract maximum profit from their claim with minimal work involved..... generally no gaurantees are made, though many of the folks peddling to the GPAA crowd also salt their bags with a gram or two of gold dust/flake and some go so far as to add nuggets for and additional cost making a panning experience more pleasant and return customers more probable.

As to the percentage of gold in any given placer deposit, it takes a refiner to get it to pure gold, I sit on a river that the placer gold comes out at 65% pure, and a little farter down the river the gold can get a little higher in content, thre is a river in Alaska not far from where Felix's claims are that only runs 55% pure, ergo it takes a little more efforts to get to a pure state and to get top dollar on the market.

As for nuggets being bought and sold for more than spot price such practices flucuate with supply and demand and always will, same for diamonds, sapphires or any other commodity that can be placer deposits like we have here in Central Idaho [yes I have kicked around selling bags of paydirt and might off a claim a couple of partners and I are staking for working with a dredge next summer that has not been worked in 20 years] 

Not all sellers of paydirt are reputable, in a thread on the GPAA forum it has been pointed out that a seller on ebay peddling drywashed material from Arizona is selling clay powder that should have blown out of the dry washer and not have been left in at all, and very little if any gold in the mix...... caveat emptor. That is not to say some of the fellas are not way above board and providing a service that for some folks is a needed relief valve as to travel to different states takes a passel of fuel and fair amount of time that many do not have, and their goals are not to strike it rich but to recover some gold and have fun doing so, panning out a bag of paydirt that MIGHT actually contain some gold is awesome, and to get enough to say it covered the expense of purchase well that is just gravy on top of the relaxation factor.

Ive kicked around the idea of getting some dirt from felix and seeing if the claims are as good as the unsolocited emails he posts on his website, but alas and alac, it takes something extra to do that kind of commerece right now my family dont have and its not fair to my family that i "play" like that for research purposes or "gamble" that there is enough gold present to recover the cost of purchase and selling..... ergo justification..... Of course there are gold beaaring streams locally that are not all that far away to stick a pan into after classifying the material out, ive a a couple five gallon buckets in the shop sitting waiting to be panned donw yet from one such trip awhile back..... a picnic with the family and about 4 hours of classifying and yes there is gold in the bucket, just not very much.... kinda like having it in the bank i suppose.

have a great day, far be it from ordinary!

William
Central Idaho


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## Noxx

Thanks blue duck.

By the way, if one day I go to Idaho, I hope you could show me how to pan 
There was a lot of gold in Quebec (in the north) but I don't know if there're still any that can be panned.


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## blueduck

hey not a problem....

As far as panning goes, It just takes practice, I started out when still in highschool back in the late 1970's with a metal pan, no riffles in it and started with sand and bb's [lead shot at the time from a shotgun shell] learned to recover those that i placed purposedly in the pan and just kept after getting better technique. I aint fast at it, nor do I profess to be the best at panning, but i can hold my own with those who are experienced, but i never race or enter contests... just not my cuppa.

As far as coming to visit Idaho, if ever you or anyone decides to get out this way I am willing to make myself available for a panning trip, though make no guarantees as to what gets found, but there are places where you will get color in the pan just about every time if you get deep enough.... remember gold is alive and hides from the prospector but is also heavy and can not run as fast as mankind!

Have an ordinary day!

William


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## DeadDOG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prbrw1bSwG0
a video of me panning out some dirt with a nice bit of gold in it.

and another one of me panning a 2 pound bag of dirt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjTnKO_AyA

yep i need to move somewhere in the US that has gold.
kind of live in a dead spot so i have them ship me some dirt.


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## OMG

I'm curious how you are going to get the fine gold out.
I am in a similar situation. I have about 20 kilos of fine sand/black sand with gold and platinum in it. There is alot of gold in it that is very very small. I'm currently trying to find a economical way to recover all of the gold in the sand mix. Any ideas?


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## DeadDOG

there is alot of ways. i try to post some and even maybe upload some videos on how to do it.


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## Anonymous

DeadDOG said:


> a crazy man in alaska is selling bags of dirt for 50 bucks.
> not all bags have the same amount of gold in them.
> but in my tests (even recored a video of the last one and uploaded to youtube in my sig.) with the size of the nugget i found. it seems i can sell it for the 50-60 bucks i paid for bag. then all the rest of the gold (the fines and flakes of gold in the pan are mine free almost 2nd day shipping on just one bag was $12 not bad. so i am left with about 1/8 to 1/16 of an ounce of gold. with gold at $777 an ounce i left with a little over $100 bucks of gold. not bad if i do not say so my self.
> 
> watch the video if you want the info on where to get the gold.
> also he gives out free samples of dirt so why not try panning some gold.
> 
> i was told next year he will be rasing his prices.



_i bought some of that gold and it had a few pickers and flakes but the one in the video is the "motherload bag"... i bought the regular bag.
the "motherload bag" does have bigger peices and a nugget or two but they are usually small nuggets.
for the price of the bags it's not that bad... you can even buy dirt in larger quantities._


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## Dog Biscuit

I bought a case of motherload last year to use for panning demonstrations at the elementary school where I work. So far, I have worked four bags and found an average of less than one gram per bag. I did find a 1.09 gram nugget in one bag that yielded a total of 1.15 grams of gold. The gold seems to come in three sizes - small nuggets, small flakes, and smaller flakes. I don't have screens to give a mesh size. There is virtually no "powder gold" as you would expect to find in unworked concentrates. :? 

Hope this helps anyone thinking of buying.


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## Irons

Dog Biscuit said:


> I bought a case of motherload last year to use for panning demonstrations at the elementary school where I work. So far, I have worked four bags and found an average of less than one gram per bag. I did find a 1.09 gram nugget in one bag that yielded a total of 1.15 grams of gold. The gold seems to come in three sizes - small nuggets, small flakes, and smaller flakes. I don't have screens to give a mesh size. There is virtually no "powder gold" as you would expect to find in unworked concentrates. :?
> 
> Hope this helps anyone thinking of buying.



Sounds like salted tailings.


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## calgoldrecyclers

yes indeed! them thar bags are salted! 
i have spent the last twenty plus years investigating and prospecting gold deposits, knowing what material should look like coming from a dredge, sluice, "panned concentrates", etc. these are all "key phrases" to get the reader hooked. all bags that i have ever bought as having been passed through a dredge or some other type of high yield device, have always been salted. funny how you never find more gold than what you pay for!
i recently bought a bag of "concentrates", supposedly run through a dredge from a guy out in north carolina. i can assure you, that material never saw a dredge. the material in the bag was much too light and way too muddy. when i asked the seller about this, he stated that he didnt run the material through a sluice box, (of a dredge) rather he pumped the material directly into fifty gallon barrels. which i have to wonder, why say dredge, and not say the truth, that he pumps the material into fifty gallon barrels. dredge implies heavy washed material. 
it disapoints me when i see and read so called "prospectors" trying to get over on unsuspecting peers looking for a little treasure.
buyer beware!
these scammers are coming out of the woodwork now with the high cost of gold.
treat all "panning concentrates" as a novelty.
good luck to all in all your endeavors, and happy hunting.


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## 10wt_Percent

Miners in days-of-Yore knew enough that if pickins were slim they could turn to the omni-present black-sand (iron-sand) which invariably collected in their dredges and sluice-ways. This, ostensibly to recover dissolved gold and PGM's. 

Iron sand is a variation on common everyday rust. Rust is electronically unusual .. it demonstrates semi-conduction. It is non-stoichiometric in nature and as such: demonstrates stong electro-negativity. 

Electro-negativity is a measure of a substance's propensity to form solid-solutions with other substances .. metals notably. 

Gold and PGMs, that, over countless eons, have come into contact with black sand can constitute up to 10 wt.% of this pregnant black sand. So let's whet one's appetite. Let's say a 45 gallon drum (full) of black sand weighs in at say 350 lbs - then, according to my sources, (a Treasure Hunt Magazine circa 1977) this may contain upwards of 35 lbs of intimately-dissolved, mechanically-impossible-to-liberate precious metals fraction! 

So first-off: how to collect black sand and secondly: how to liberate the goodies entrained within?

Sluice-box collection is only marginally viable - I would offer. We need a better strategy. 

Howsabout this for an idea .. let's suggest we are in a gold-bearing area .. on a creek with flowing water. Reasonable to suggest there is no shortage of black (iron) sand caught up in behind boulders and the traditional placer-deposit hot-spots. 

OK ... and then? 

Well then we employ our patent-pending black sand stick which is nothing more than a cut-off hockey stick with permanent magnets affixed to the business end. Let's sheath it in some 1" diameter heat-shrink ... a double layer of heat-shrink - we'll suggest. 

I envision this as a two-man operation with two (or even three) black sand sticks. 

One guy is in charge of stripping the furry black sand mass off the heat-shrink - while the other guy is busy poking and prodding in and around the traditional black sand/placer hot-spots. 

Stripping is accomplished with a wet cloth .. simple as it gets .. use the wet cloth to physically strip the acicular (pine needle-like) mass off the business end and drop the cloth into your collection bucket half full of water. 

We can envision employing swimming-pool cleaning extensible-poles to go where "No Man Has Gone Before" that is: other-wise completely inaccessible deeper, fast-flowing rapids. It's exactly with these longer, swimming-pool inspired black sand sticks that the two-man operation comes into it's own. 

OK, moving right along.

Let's suggest we've collected our bucketful of BS: next question is how to extract the goods. So with no further adieu I present to you the "Fish and Chips" Black Sand Busting Protocol (BSBP). 

So let's cut the BS - with equal parts table salt. The magazine article suggests a 50/50 (volumetric) ratio. I've read elsewhere (that) one need not employ quite as much salt. That a 70/30 mix would suffice. Furthermore, I'm of the mind, cheaper road salt (KCl) (and not NaCl) will achieve the desired result (as well). 

We place our mixture in a cast iron skillet and proceed to roast (crack) it over an open campfire (or charcoal briquette fire). Avoid exposure to fumes - there is a potential mercury vapour concern along with other unknown nasties - presumably sulfide n chloride emission(s). Roast for 5 minutes (we'll suggest) at 1500F plus.

Deftly pitch this hot mass into an as-cold-as-possible bucket-'o'-water. Think winter-time. 

Decant. Rendering us with the semi-processed, freshly-roasted black sand. This we grind (comminute) by time-honored methods - possibly mortar and pestle or how about a high-speed vertical mill (think coffee-bean mill). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mill_(grinding) 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comminution

Next, we proceed to pan this fine-grind. That is to say; we affect gravity or "differential density" separation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocyclone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_processing

A critical step, the money-step, is the addition of a drop or two of household vinegar into the pan wash. (Hence the "Fish n Chips" (salt n vinegar) method). 

Acetic acid (CH3COOH) acts in a hydrometallurgical capacity to (finally) liberate the goods - which appear as a shiny crescent-shaped swath (which) we extract with the traditional Thanksgiving-style turkey baster ~>8 7~~ Repeat as necessary : )

All this could be considered as a useful prospecting protocol (as well). 

The precious metals content of the in situ black sand as indicative of the "ambient" gold prospect. 

This would require separate bagging (and labeling) of black sands as collected from various locales.

Working one's way upstream (and employing this technique) can reveal the location where the goods are entering the stream (read: motherlode). If suddenly we note a deficit in dissolved goodies (then) we know Ahhaa! we've come too far .. back it up a bit (head downstream) .. and ferret out exactly where we begin to see "signs" again.

As for final recovery - I would suggest approaching a refinery that has XRF analysis capabilities. 

Assuming a homogeneously-mixed concentrate - XRF analysis provides a ready-assessment of valuables contained there-in. 

The unit spits out a nice "table of contents" along with the 'going rate' - we'll suggest. Kaching! was heard 8) 

Trust all this as "reasonably reasonable." 

Drive On! was heard :!: 

http://tinyurl.com/XRF-ANALYSERS
http://tinyurl.com/XRF-ANALYSIS


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## lazersteve

10wt,

Welcome to the forum. 

Your post was very amusing and interesting, but it has some mathematical flaws that I can't help but notice.

First the weight of your 45 gallon drum of 'iron oxide' seems off. The density of iron (III) oxide is 5.24 g per mL according to wiki. This makes 45 gallons worth equal to:

45 US gallons = 170,343.53 mL x 5.24 g per mL =~ 892,600 grams

which equates to :

892,600 / 454 grams per pound =~ 1966 pounds.

This assumes there is no air space and no water in the barrel.

Your example of 350 pounds would be more like :

350# total - 35# (PMs) = 315 pounds iron oxide x 454 g per pound =

143,010 grams / 5.24 g/mL =~ 27,292 mL or about 7.2 US Gallons of black sands equals the 315# referred to in the example. 

The PM densities are very high and they would therefore take up a much smaller volume, I estimate about another quart of space for the 35# of PMs.

So you are saying that in 7.2 gallons of iron oxide sands you can return 35# of PMs ?

If the 45 gallon barrel was full of pure water the weight would be 375#. To compensate for the missing volume in the barrel with water would be a logical assumption. Hence the total weight of the PMs, the iron oxide, and the water must equal 350#, which sounds more realistic. 

The only problem occurs when you find that in order to increase the volume to fill the 45 gallon drum and keep the weight at 350#, you have to use the lightest of the compounds to take up the most space, this being water. By using the water to take up the space, you must remove an equal volume of iron oxide. This in turn reduces the total weight of the iron oxide which lowers the PM yield. So you see, in your example of the 45 gallon barrel, it's not likely that you will get the weights you stated. 

My guess is you were generalizing the weight of the barrel without actually knowing the weight of a 45 gallon barrel of iron oxide. So I figure you are trying to sell the idea that you can get 35# of PMs from 7.2 gallons (a five gallon bucket and a half ) of dry iron oxide sand.

Even if the density of your sands is half that of pure iron oxide you still only need three five gallon buckets of it get your 35# of PMs! Maybe I missed something in my math?

You've got my attention since a member recently sent me some black sands for free!


Steve


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## Anonymous

OMG said:


> I'm curious how you are going to get the fine gold out.
> I am in a similar situation. I have about 20 kilos of fine sand/black sand with gold and platinum in it. There is alot of gold in it that is very very small. I'm currently trying to find a economical way to recover all of the gold in the sand mix. Any ideas?



8) I am new here, this is my first post.

I have been working on that problem of recovering fine Gold.

I have came across this method of getting the fine Gold in a concentrate so it can be retrived from there by other methods. 

It is simple and it has proven to me it works, it will get that fine gold and trap it so you have it in a concentrate.

It looks funky, I apoligize, I used what I had, this is the prototype and I am not trying to sell anything - Just sharing information.

Some have called it a Rube Goldburg Doodad and that is OK - it works!
(and it does not cost thousands of dollars, you can build it yourself)

A picture says a thousand words...
The ore needs to be ground real fine!


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## blueduck

Needle, welcome to the forum!!

Using a reciprocating saw for a non-concentric or in place of a pitman arm is pure genius.

How much water flow are you putting on during the shaking and what incline/decline is the table set at or do you play both by feel?

what are you using to grind your ore and what mesh are ya going down to? Do you use a series of sieves?

the worst day finding gold is still better than the best day working in a cubicle.

William
Idaho


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## deserdog

That is a recpricating or impact sluice. There was an artcle in an issue of Popular Mining that featured an impact sluice built by a guy who lived in Black Canyon, AZ. It had ribbed rubber matting in the bottom and when it ran you could see the gold stay right on top and the black sand just flow out.


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## Anonymous

blueduck said:


> Needle, welcome to the forum!!
> 
> Using a reciprocating saw for a non-concentric or in place of a pitman arm is pure genius.
> 
> How much water flow are you putting on during the shaking and what incline/decline is the table set at or do you play both by feel?
> 
> what are you using to grind your ore and what mesh are ya going down to? Do you use a series of sieves?
> 
> the worst day finding gold is still better than the best day working in a cubicle.
> 
> William
> 8) The amount of water is just enough to keep the ore in a state of fluidity
> so it does not pack on the riffles.
> The incline/decline seems to work at one inch rise per foot of length.
> (my 3' sluice is set at 3")
> I run screened 1/4" ore through a 11" impact mill - just one pass.
> Then I place 1/3 bucket of this material in a cement mixer with a 76 pound steel ball and let it grind for 2 hours, then add another third and let this grind for 2 hours, then add the remaing 1/3 and by listening to the ball grind you can tell when the ore is fine and finished.
> I do not use a series of sieves,but I do own a set.
> After I have accumulated concentrates from a bucket of ground ore I run them through a 30 mesh screen before I run them over my model M4 wave table to get the Gold. ( it is very fine, micron)
> It takes thousands of individual pieces to even make a sheen in the bottom of a Gold pan.
> 
> Idaho


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## Anonymous

deserdog said:


> That is a recpricating or impact sluice. There was an artcle in an issue of Popular Mining that featured an impact sluice built by a guy who lived in Black Canyon, AZ. It had ribbed rubber matting in the bottom and when it ran you could see the gold stay right on top and the black sand just flow out.



8) I have the 5 book encyclopedia of Popular Mining and I must have missed that article, but I did see an article of a reciprocating saw attached to a shaker screen which seemed to work great.
I have tried using ribbed matting, miners moss all different combinations and configurations, but the simplest and the best for collecting my type of Gold is the single auto carpet under the riffles.
After I run a 5 gallon bucket of ground up ore over the shaker sluice I wind up with about 1 to 1 1/2 inches of concentrates in a 5 gallon bucket.
It does collect that tiny, tiny micron Gold.


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## blueduck

Needle,

Thanks for the response. somehow i cant get my brain wrapped around why a carpet from an auto would work better for the micro-fines do to the knap being so short..... but then again it may have more to do with the composition.... if it aint broke, dont fix it! [it might even work over here on the Salmon river float gold]

William
Idaho


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## pinman

i sent in for this a month ago and never got a package... well see if it shows up


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## pinman

just got it this morning, and was also surprised as to the material. its basically regular beach sand with small and smaller flakes in it.
god i cant wait for this spring.


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## Shecker

My brother once bought me a bag of placer dirt from Montana that was advertised to have gold in every bag. It did -- exactly one piece of very small gold. But what caught my eye was the large amount of sapphires in the material. They were mostly white and not gem grade but there was on very small blue one that was beautiful under a hand lens. Most of the people who produce these sample bags don't bother to notice any other mineralization but the gold content. Just a thought.


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## Irons

Shecker said:


> My brother once bought me a bag of placer dirt from Montana that was advertised to have gold in every bag. It did -- exactly one piece of very small gold. But what caught my eye was the large amount of sapphires in the material. They were mostly white and not gem grade but there was on very small blue one that was beautiful under a hand lens. Most of the people who produce these sample bags don't bother to notice any other mineralization but the gold content. Just a thought.



Even colorless Sapphires have value. There are people who know how to heat treat them to bring out their color. Stones that have an off color can also be treated to sometimes bring out a better hue.


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## Richard36

Place those stones in silica sand, and heat them in a ceramics kiln at 800 F for two hours, then let let cool slowly. remove your stones and enjoy the color.


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## blueduck

I bought a set of PVC suckers from deserdog a couple months back and talk about suck a golfball through a garden hose, for sampling a streambed this is gonna beat all to smithereens the way ive been going about it all the past years..... 

and coming up with blacksand and gold together is not always the problem it still is using a sieve to get ita ll down to the right size to let the heavier pieces get to the bottom..... then use whatever it takes to get the yaller metal out.

My whole family had a ball last weekend on the beach and shed some pent up cabin fever, we found some color and got a few machines working for the coming prospecting season too..... my digging partner bought an old Tri-R reverse spiral trommel and the fines it recovers are spectacular..... I will post some pictures of it on my website in the next couple days.... and yes a couple will show ole blueduck hefting up a five gallon bucket over his head feeding the thing.

I went and looked at a neat old Tri-R rotary sluice this evening... and may just have to pick it up for a job on a 200 acre patented claim i am going to go sample saturday....... things are definately looking up in this down turned economy.

William
North Central Idaho


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## deserdog

There is a guy in Wisconsin who sells gold bearing material from Wisconsin and the Great Lakes. He only screens out the larger rocks, and has pretty good feedback on ebay. His seller name is gold_digger1961


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## blueduck

ok so i still aint got my website up to snuff, but i thought i would add a picture of me loading a bucket of sand in the old Tri-R spiral concentrator, which is now again being built in California after a hiatus of many years..... http://www.oro-industries.com/ENGLISH.html and the folks are great to talk to btw, I told them i would post their site in a couple places now that they have one up and running...... the concentrator like the one in the picture they tell me will sell around $9000.00 in a 16 inch version and a little more in the 24 inch like is shown [picked up on the big online yard sale for $1500.00 plus a round trip of about 1000 miles], the rotary centrifuge like i found here for $2000.00 is going to be sold for $12,500.00 which is supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread on black sands and heavy metal particle , we shall see.... I know the concentrator works like a charm on beach sands, five gallon bucket ran completely through in 2 minutes, the machine will run between 3 and 5 yards per hour, and the club that had it 20 members would use 5 gallon buckets and it would take everything they could toss at it, just tired of keeping it in the garage and so the owner sold it.
Water from the river came via a 5 hp motor and a 2 inch lay flat hose, though that was overkill and we can run 2 or 3 small machines like this on that flow of water.
William
Idaho


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