# Thought it was simple and straight forward bs



## irritated (Jan 5, 2013)

ok I removed the pins from hundreds of fiber cpus using a heat gun, not a torch.
12ml 32%hcl per gram pins
boiled for 3 hours ANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDDD, 
no floating pins no floating gold visible at top
bunch of tiny particles dissolved gold 
what now I dont even see how i could pour this into a filter and get anything I can work with
surely there has to be more than a gram of unrefined gold in 800 grams of cpu pins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :?: :?: :?: :?:


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## niteliteone (Jan 5, 2013)

irritated said:


> ok I removed the pins from *hundreds of fiber cpus* using a heat gun, not a torch.
> (snip)
> there has to be *more than a gram of unrefined gold in 800 grams of cpu pins*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :?: (snip for bad taste)



If you actually got a gram You did a good job :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
You would REALLY be happy if you spent time here and actually learned what to expect from that *EXTRA LOW GRADE* ecrap (misspelling intended) instead of better quality escrap.
But since you are new here and haven't spent MUCH time learning what is really going on, You have done really good* IF* you actually got that gram of *MIGHT BE* pure gold.

PS. Take it easy on the smiles even though they can be cute they can also be very annoying and can possibly reflect on the TRUE character of the user.


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## tek4g63 (Jan 5, 2013)

You have come to the right place to find your answer. Use the search function and start reading. Shouldn't take long to see the mistakes you may have made.

So you said that you boiled these pins in HCL? Was it just straight 32% HCL? 

If so, then no gold is dissolved. Its may be tiny little flakes, very hard to see, but not dissolved.

Did all the pins dissolve? I'm guessing that they didn't, but without the full story its just that, guessing.

If the pins didn't dissolve then you still have work to do. To recover the gold in the way that you are attempting you must dissolve all the base metals, leaving only the super thin gold plating behind.

Try using the search function to find the " copper II chloride " leach method. Also known as " AP " , " Acid / Peroxide ". Or just type in " pins". That should get you started.

Put your pins in a safe place and study for a few days. Then ask a few more questions before moving forward. That gold will still be there waiting on you.


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## ericrm (Jan 5, 2013)

:shock: 800 g of pin from p4 wow... realy... wow

well i dont use the 12ml acid of samuel because to me it havent work. i do it that way, i put a bunch of pin in a 4 l beaker , and add a bunch of acid (but not much)than add a lot of water . i usualy make my 30% hcl at 10% or 15%, than let it boil for a full day (i sometime add water back if level goes to low to keep room for the salt) or until it doesent smell hcl anymore,than let it sit over night ,decant and start with fresh acid until basemetal has dissolved.

sorry no yield for you, but they sell for 12$ so you should be able to have at least 12$ of value in the end..
good luck


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## silversaddle1 (Jan 5, 2013)

So out of almost two pounds of clean pins you only got one gram of gold?????

I would think those two pounds would have made you more money on E-Bay if thats the case.

1 gram from 2 pounds of pins? Sounds low, low, low to me.


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 5, 2013)

irritated,

The only time any of this stuff is straight forward is when you've studied the forum enough (and read the Hoke book) to essentially know what you're doing. Even then, it will probably take several hands-on attempts before you get it right. This stuff is neither easy or intuitive and patience is definitely a virtue. Just about everyone has some failure when starting out. Try very small batches at first. It's a lot cheaper to screw up a small batch than a big one.


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## patnor1011 (Jan 5, 2013)

Gold from this type of pins will break to small fine particles, sometimes even to powder like substance. If there is still some metal (undissolved pins) present some gold will be on that metal.


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## jabukanac (Jan 20, 2014)

I just wanna say that i have done this with pins my self (another thread Low yield pins ) as i was advised by few good members to keep adding more of pins in the solution ,i have not used any heat but i did use 5ml of peroxide ,now what i did was mixing solution few times per day 72hrs latter solution would turn dark brown and i have made a decision not to try and rejuvenate the same (only 300ml 32%hcl and 5ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide ) so every third day i have filtered this with coffee filters and washed pins in tap water 100ml ,oxidation starts after an hour (dry) then i add another 200ml Hcl and 100ml CUCL mix and 72hrs latter same process repeated after 4 changes i am left with 1000ml of dark brown solution which has small gold particles all over it and my original pins are down to about 50g sitting in a healthy AP solution until i loose my mind and throw them away (joking ill never throw away anything of value no matter how insignificant amount that may be )
anyway i know that i will never place any pins in AP again (sulfuric cell or Nitric is the way to go) just to relate this to your post my advise would be save your time and get your self a sulfuric cell i know i am building one soon anything else for gold plated pins or jewelry is a waist of time 

also if anyone reads this i would appreciate help which way should i go to recover all of my gold which is in very small particles (goes through 2x coffee filters i am sure that my solution does not have any gold dissolved as is saturated with copper (dark brown almost black) but i do have gold particles all over the place do i need better filter and if i do what number whatman would be good for this nano particles thanks Zoran


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## Platdigger (Jan 20, 2014)

How do you know there is no gold in that solution?
HCL and H2O2 does dissolve gold.
The idea of adding the peroxide is to start the process off by dissolving some copper and getting it into solution. If allowed to continue this will eventually become a copper chloride, copper etching solution.

What you have done by repeated changing out of the solution with fresh HCL/H2O2 has most likely put a small amount of gold as well as a greater amount of copper into solute.

When this is allowed to carry on, with out continually starting over. is that eventually any small amount of gold that originally was dissolved will cement out and it is then just a copper etching solution.

Then air can be added with a bubbler to keep it going.
You should test that solution.


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## jabukanac (Jan 20, 2014)

Thanks Platdigger great idea to test for presence of gold i think that will be negative but it was not important to me at this stage as i had plans to use same solution with my ram fingers which should displace any gold if present if i am correct ,sure i will have to use bubbler to keep solution active 
but you got me thinking now and i wanna to a test which is a problem at this moment cannot find any tin powder in Queensland (Australia) also all of the hardware stores are selling solder with 35% lead which is bad so i have to order a minimum 1kg of tin powder 325 mesh from a place in NSW which is going to take 2 weeks to arrive with a cost of $65 for 1kg of powder and $16 postage (may be expensive but hey have no other option)
is there a way to use gold testing solution somehow i i have bottles with 10k 14k 18k 22k and silver testing solution


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## Platdigger (Jan 20, 2014)

No, those test solutions are acids and buffered acids.


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## solar_plasma (Jan 20, 2014)

> at this moment cannot find any tin powder in Queensland (Australia) also all of the hardware stores are selling solder with 35% lead



Probably you can even take some solder cutted from thickly soldered low-grade pcbs. Until now I didn't have any problems with common Cu and/or Pb alloys, filtering would be an option. I think I read on the forum about probs with antimony, but I am not sure.

If you used straight HCl without any strong oxidizers, there should not be any gold in solution. Stannous test wouldn't work since there is solder attached to the pins. If you used oxidizers like H2O2 right from the start, your dissolved gold would be reduced to colloidal gold, which would be a bad thing.

My two cents: let it react until all basemetals are dissolved, let it sit, decant, filter the rest, wash well, dissolve and precipitate - all after you read the highly recommended texts.


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## Geo (Jan 20, 2014)

ive come to the conclusion that removing the pins to process them is a waste of time. there was a time that i did the pins in a text book manner by removing the pin and dissolving the Kovar in hot hcl but it seems to take forever. you must boil the pins in hcl until the solution turns blue. at this point its time to change the solution. what you are looking for is reaction bubbles. reaction bubbles are different than a boiling bubble. reaction bubbles are small and can originate anywhere on the material and a boiling bubble originates at the bottom of the pile. Kovar will dissolve in hot hcl but the gold plating is a barrier to the acid. because of this, the Kovar must be dissolved from the open end of the pin and work its way to the pointed end leaving a small tube of gold. vigorous boiling breaks these tubes into small pieces.

personally, i place the whole processor in AP and collect the foils a few days later.


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## nickvc (Jan 20, 2014)

While tin powder is easier to make stannous, can you just source a piece of tin and dissolve that in hydrochloric, leaving a small piece in keeps the solution fresh for longer.


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## cmiller92 (Jan 20, 2014)

"Sigh"

I know I am new here, but I still feel like this is another thread by a person that is demanding information to fix their mistake. The usual “Help me I have a mess because I didn’t study or learn enough”.

On top of this, there are multiple “violations” to the rules of the forum; the first I noticed is in the title. BS is obviously an abbreviation for some unprofessional choice words. I wish people would post with more of a structured form versus just rambling that makes it hard to read.

The “help me I screwed up” questions answered with a simple, read the required information post, and nothing else.

Just my two cents.
CJ


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## butcher (Jan 20, 2014)

cmiller92,
I totally agree, I think irritated, should study the forum, to learn more so that he will no longer be irritated. and we should delete this topic and start over.


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## moose7802 (Jan 20, 2014)

Richard is it possible to go back and delete a bunch of threads that are similar to this where someone has asked a question that has been answered a 1000× and then the only response to the questions are to read? If this is the case I would have no problem starting a thread in the forum problems section and posting a link for each thread like that I come across while trying to read ALL of the threads from start to finish. I am working on it, trying to read every thread old to new :roll: 

Tyler


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 20, 2014)

moose7802 said:


> Richard is it possible to go back and delete a bunch of threads that are similar to this where someone has asked a question that has been answered a 1000× and then the only response to the questions are to read? If this is the case I would have no problem starting a thread in the forum problems section and posting a link for each thread like that I come across while trying to read ALL of the threads from start to finish. I am working on it, trying to read every thread old to new :roll:
> 
> Tyler



Each thread is different and there is some unique information in almost every one, even though they might have the same general theme. I would rather not tamper with them.


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## jimdoc (Jan 20, 2014)

goldsilverpro said:


> moose7802 said:
> 
> 
> > Richard is it possible to go back and delete a bunch of threads that are similar to this where someone has asked a question that has been answered a 1000× and then the only response to the questions are to read? If this is the case I would have no problem starting a thread in the forum problems section and posting a link for each thread like that I come across while trying to read ALL of the threads from start to finish. I am working on it, trying to read every thread old to new :roll:
> ...




I agree, it would be a hard task to weed out all the bad without possibly losing some good content.

Maybe a section called "Just The Good Stuff" where links to threads that should not be missed by new members (and should be easily found for all) could be posted. Like a best of the best, and try to keep that section clean from the nonsense. Either threads and posts could be nominated to be put there, or one of the people who would like to see this forum easier for new members could step up and put it together.

Jim


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## solar_plasma (Jan 20, 2014)

The intention behind is quite good and once upon a time I thought of the same, but after just having read what I think is "the best of", this is an impossible task - both quantitatively and qualitatively. But this my point of view is only one from a very young member.  

Now, after one year of being here, the search engine is my best friend and I don't see a lack of spoon feed tutorials anymore. :lol:


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## g_axelsson (Jan 20, 2014)

jabukanac said:


> but you got me thinking now and i wanna to a test which is a problem at this moment cannot find any tin powder in Queensland (Australia) also all of the hardware stores are selling solder with 35% lead which is bad so i have to order a minimum 1kg of tin powder 325 mesh from a place in NSW which is going to take 2 weeks to arrive with a cost of $65 for 1kg of powder and $16 postage (may be expensive but hey have no other option)


Just go to the nearest second hand store and buy a beat up pewter bowl for a dollar and you will have a lifetime supply of tin. Stannous chloride isn't sensitive for contaminations, if it was we would never be able to test our wild mixtures of metal salts.
Even ordinary led-tin solder could be used (if new, after melting to get rid of flux). Lead chloride has a very low solubility and will end up as a white powder on the bottom. But it does slow down the reaction speed as the solder gets encrusted by lead chloride.

Göran


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## cmiller92 (Jan 20, 2014)

Good information Goran
I just think that this person is not coming back to read it, considering that this was wrote on the 5th and there has been no update from the original Poster....at all.


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## g_axelsson (Jan 20, 2014)

Bummer! :lol: But I don't care too much if he don't read it. Others will. I always write both for the one asking the questions and anyone else reading the thread later on.

Göran


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## Anonymous (Jan 20, 2014)

Shame isn't it Goran?

I was just about to say how simple it was too.

Keep back 5ml of known gold bearing solution in a small bottle.

Get a roll of tin contained solder.
Get a 25Ml bottle and put your HCl in. Then a few snips of solder.
Leave for a while as you do your normal refining type things and then test the solution against your known gold liquid.
If it works then you win!

Instantly repeatable every time you refine, as you have a test medium to ensure your solution is still viable. If it isn't then just make a new one.

Cheap, simple and effective 

Shame he's not coming back though.


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## Harold_V (Jan 20, 2014)

In regards to a source for tin, it might not hurt to check with stores that provide fishing supplies. Sinkers are being made of tin, so you might luck out and find them at your location. Hard to say, but it's worth a look. 

If you're not familiar with the appearance of tin, and can't judge if they are tin or not, keep in mind, tin has a hint of a yellow cast to its color and creaks when bent. If they're made of lead, it will be obvious by their color, as lead is rather gray, lacking the yellow hint I mentioned. 

A little comment on a sample of gold bearing solution. Hoke discusses that in her book. She refers to the sample as a gold standard solution. If you make it from a known amount of gold (a grain or two is enough), and dilute it a specific amount, while it's far from being an assay of other solutions, the reaction you witness from your standard solution as compared to a sample from an unknown solution often will indicate an approximate gold content. It does require a trained eye, but that comes with experience. For that reason, I discourage using a random sample, although such a sample is far better than nothing. 

Harold


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## jabukanac (Jan 20, 2014)

Great info about alternatives, as Goran said ( Just go to the nearest second hand store and buy a beat up pewter bowl for a dollar and you will have a lifetime supply of tin. Stannous chloride isn't sensitive for contaminations)

This was my first choice and i have made test solution of grind-ed pewter ashtray i have ,solution was murky in color for a while but next day was a clear with gray dust at the bottom, i have tested my two beakers of dark CuCl2 (saturated and dark green almost brown in color) and this come up negative with this test at the same time i was advised on another post to stay away from such a Stannous solution as the are not reliable, which i did 
so now i have my two coffee pots with 1000ml of CuCl2 and visible gold particles all over it ( again this is not a messed up solution i am still processing my fingers until they are dissolved completely base metal ) so if anyone got angry on my question my apologies i do not need help to fix my bad becouse i do not read i do read and still reading daily,my asking was for advise from anyone who is interested to share better ways of dealing with things such as useless finger processing,in 
AP so just to get clear to everyone who is reading 
i started my first batch of AP with 3000ml 32% Hcl +lid of 3% H2o2 less than 5ml this solution contained 400g of computer cut of fingers one you find in IDE cables or which are usually fully plated 
anyhow this was reacting quite well for about 2 weeks after it got saturated and reaction slowed down i have added more pins probably another 300g and let it soak another few days ,this is where some people got confused and jump to conclusion that i have made a mess and asking for quick fix which is not even close to what i have i have two coffee pots filtered CuCl2 300ml each with visible large amount of nano particles gold in it (looks like colloidal gold but i hope it is not because does drop to the bottom of the pot after few hrs of resting) my third and active solution is still 300ml of Hcl so to get clear after my original solution containing H2o2 i did not add any more in second and third because i have used 100ml of my previous solution to start a leach only reason i have done this changes was to experience how quick and well is going to work if AP was in small amount but fresh which i did so you see now i have 22 days latter most of the pins dissolved completely and still have only 800ml of AP to deal with it and all of this with out any heating other than natural sun light ,my point is to prove to my self and anyone who is interested reading if done patiently some pins my be worth of processing in HCL and not using any heating (waist of electricity or large amount of chemicals, all of my AP will be filtered washed and collected for further refining depending which ever way i have feel comfortable doing it HCL-CL or AR i am not there yet as i do not have proper melting dishes and molds 

and thanks Harold my fishing shop should have some small sinkers which i believe may be tin 

thanks again and again my apology if anyone got offended reading something again and again on this site (it wassent me)


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## butcher (Jan 20, 2014)

jabukanac,

I think your post is so long, it is hard to follow, to tell if you are asking for advice or just explaining what you have done.

If you see gold as brown powder or small golden flakes it is not colloidal gold, you may just have to let solution sit and the gold to settle.

I normally do not filter where I do not have to, normally if you let solutions sit most of the insolubles will settle, even if I do filter solutions, I will let them settle well, and just filter the decanted liquids, not disturbing the settled powders. fine powders can go through filters, or you can get some values trapped in the filter material, powders tend to clog filters...
it is best just to filter the clean liquids whenever you can, there are times where you will wish to filter powders, but I would not unless I needed to.

In the copper II chloride solution (AP). even if you have for some reason put gold into solution adding copper will dissolve copper into solution and push gold back out of solution.

As long as you do not have tin dissolved in solution with your gold you should be fine with this leach.

It does not sound like you have added too much oxidizer (3% H2O2) so you most likely have no gold dissolved into solution.

If the solution is dark brown it can be loaded with copper I chloride.

If you are asking a question try to give enough detail of what you have done, try to make it simple to understand, state the question clearly, I can see you have been studying, 

My mind is simple I need simple questions.

And now here I go and write a big long post that you may have trouble reading.
Maybe I need to take the advice to keep it simple.


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## jabukanac (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks butcher i got the idea of keeping my posts simple and you are right i shall do that in the future my bad is i am used to chat rooms where things work in different ways so from now on you all see silence from me
( just joking not scared to ask for help ) problem may be with my English i do think in other language then express my self in English this is most likely to be a luck of being simple with my posts anyhow i promise ill improve being simple in the future ,,,no long posts i am happy to have them deleted as i have my answers already and i am thankful ,if anyone knows how i don't see option on my end to delete my posts

thanks for confirming that it is not colloidal gold 
just to clarify it was both what i have done with my process and asking for advise on two things one was stannous test solution alternative and second one was what you confirmed that i should not have colloidal gold present so thanks again


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## butcher (Jan 21, 2014)

Not a problem. You should have seen some of my first posts that no one could read.


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## jimdoc (Jan 21, 2014)

jabukanac said:


> no long posts i am happy to have them deleted as i have my answers already and i am thankful ,if anyone knows how i don't see option on my end to delete my posts



Please don't delete any posts, here that is left to the moderators. That is why you don't see an option once you have had a response. If you have second thoughts about a post before someone responds it can be deleted, but after someone else posts after you, then you can no longer delete a post.
The answers you receive can be helpful to others in the future, and deleting parts of threads leaves the rest of the thread a mess.

Jim


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## jabukanac (Jan 21, 2014)

Point taken jimdoc 
we are here to share our smart ideas and our not so stupid ideas so we can all get smarter at the end 
ps; sometimes i do not mind reading even stupid things because i can learn from someone else s mistake so i do not do the same what i will not do is criticized anyone for trying as long as is reasonably safe for himself others and environment cose this is how we Humans discover innovations and i will stay away from giving any advise how to do things rather explaining what i have done and with what results

happy refining people 8)


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