# Ceramic cpu problem



## Goldkartel (Apr 16, 2015)

Ok i use to refing years ago just picked it back up anyway was doing about 350 ceramic cpus i decided to just ar them which i should of nitric them first but didnt anyway gold wont precipitate from ar solution so i decided to cement it out with aluminum (is that the right metal to cement it with or im i mixing it up with platinum way) anyway decanted got black powder and washed with hcl and boiled with hcl washed till clear added nitric and turned to a sponge washed till clear back in ar and sponge got tough and off white what kind of sorcery is going on plz help how to fix.


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## Goldkartel (Apr 16, 2015)

Should i just melt black powder and start from the top?


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## resabed01 (Apr 16, 2015)

:?: Draw from your past experiences, tell us what you would do.


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## Goldkartel (Apr 16, 2015)

Should i boil it down? Plz advise.


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## butcher (Apr 16, 2015)

Goldkartel,

It is hard for me to tell what your doing from reading your first post, but from what I can gather you need to learn to recover and refine, and not count on what you have learned previously, using aluminum to cement any of these precious metals out of solution in my opinion would be a very poor choice. I suspect you will suffer from many problems, overuse of acids, and many other details that will cause you grief and loss of values as you struggle to recover and refine. 

Your post did not make much sense, you used aqua regia, to dissolve the gold, then cemented with aluminum (which makes a gelatinous mess, aluminum will cement many metals out of solution).
Then you tried to wash the cement with HCl, and after rinsing you added nitric acid.
This does not make any sense to me, and just looks like a way to loose your gold, (after the HCl and the rinse, adding nitric can put some gold back into solution, you should be checking your solution with stannous chloride I suspect you may be finding your gold in you waste solutions.



I suggest forgetting what you think you know about recovery and refining, and concentrate on learning it, start with Hoke's book, and the reading the forum, paying special attention to the safety section and the dealing with waste thread in that section.


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## Goldkartel (Apr 16, 2015)

I originally did everything i usually do for ceramic cpus i boiled aqua regia till no more red gas appeared ive done this maybe 50 times before plus added urea iced solution then filtered added 4 times volume water smb and nothing i cannot get zinc or clean copper so used aluminum i washed small ammount off black powder with hcl to get rid of aluminum and other and nitric because its impossible to filter i know thats not right way with nitric wash but ignore all that im at the point with black powder in bucket that cannot be filtered plz dont tell me read hokes or riddles ive read hokes already ive done 5 lbs bars 8 years ago i need a solution to this problem advise to it would be nice again im at the point with black powder in bucket what now?


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## butcher (Apr 16, 2015)

Well I tried to help you get started learning to recover and refine, by telling you to start learning the basic principles which you can learn from Hoke's book, Just from what little I have read from your posts you definitely need to begin at the basic principles, and Hoke's is the best place to start.

So let me get this right, you wish to keep doing everything wrong (from what I can tell your doing many things wrong here), and your not having a clue about recovery and refining, except for some misinformation you picked up somewhere, and you wish to do this your way, without study and get yourself into a mess, and then wish to ask for help from us every time you get into a jam, because you are working without having a good understanding of the basic principles or how to recover or refine.

Sorry I do not have time to hold your hand and bail you out of every mess you can make, it would be hard to explain all of the things I see that your doing wrong, and we cannot see all of the other things your doing that you do not state in your request of help to get out of a mess, or tell you where your losing most of your gold, or tell if you are working safely...

But I would be more than willing to help you learn the art and skills of recovery and refining, and help you learn where your making mistakes, If you want my help, begin by helping yourself, to learn the basics, read Hoke's book ten times if that is what it takes you to understand it.

You do not need Urea, from what little you have stated so far, I think there are so many things you need to learn, or are doing wrong, it would be hard to help you with what your doing, and we cannot see every step of how your working so trying to help you at this point is pointless, you have too much to learn, or re-learn to be able to do this properly.

As far as your black powder it needs to be refined, dry it and save it in a jar, test your waste solutions for values, and then read the safety section the topic on dealing with waste, treat your waste for safe disposal.

Then begin with Hoke's book, if you need help understanding her book we can help, once you understand the basic principles, and you get a clue of knowing how to recover and refine your material, and run into a problem we will be glad to help you with details, but we cannot teach you everything you need to know at this point to be successful, for that you must do the study to learn the basics.


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## Goldkartel (Apr 16, 2015)

Well i evaporated it all large amount of black powder left took some out hcl washed it and hot water rinsed it rerefined tested positive for gold and smb it now dropping just never wanted to evap 5 gallons of it and its been 8 years so little rusty so no need to be so intense i asked simple question no one asked about holding hands and such.


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## patnor1011 (Apr 17, 2015)

Please try to use punctuation. Break your one large block of text in short sentences. It is hard to read or understand.


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## galenrog (Apr 17, 2015)

I have to agree with Butcher, who is trying to coax you into learning, or relearning, how to recover, then refine, with as few missteps as possible. His advice is sound and has kept me from many messes.

I also agree with Patnor. Proper spelling and punctuation make it far easier to understand the problems you are trying to correct. Please remember that we have many members who use translation software to read and communicate on the forum. I am not suggesting that you go back to elementary school, but that you simply do your best.


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## butcher (Apr 17, 2015)

Tin and aluminum become a big problem, I suspect both of these to be your problem with filtering.

Why would you need to evaporate five gallons of aqua regia?
How many ounces of gold were you trying to dissolve?

Lets look at Hoke's book and see what may be wrong here.
4HCl:1HNO3
4 gallons of HCl would be 15200ml of HCl
1 gallon of HNO3 would be 3800ml of HNO3
Hoke's book states that four fluid ounce of HCl and one fluid ounce of HNO3 will dissolve a troy ounce of gold.
So converting this to milliliters we see 118.29ml HCl (4 fl. oz.), and 29.57ml HNO3 (1fl. oz.), will dissolve a troy ounce of gold.
5 gallons of aqua regia:
HCl 15200ml/118.29ml=128.5 troy ounces of gold.
HNO3 3800ml/29.57ml=128.5 troy ounces of gold.

Looks like unless you were trying to dissolve 128 ounces of gold you were making the common mistake of using way too much acid.

Approximately 120ml (8 tablespoons) of HCl, and less than 30ml HNO3 (2 tablespoons) will be able to dissolve a troy ounce of gold.

4ml HCl, and 1ml HNO3 will be able to dissolve a gram of gold. So we can see here a bit more than one quarter of a tablespoon of HCl and a few drops of HNO3 added in increments with heat will dissolve a gram of gold.

Pay special attention to the getting acquainted experiment's found in Hoke's book.
Study the problems with tin and how to deal with it.
Keep tin and aluminum out of the refining process, both are a problem with filtering, and can cause you to loose your gold.
Learn how to use aqua regia (and adding the HNO3 sparingly adding it in small increments)and using heat, and if you do use a slight excess of HNO3 evaporation should not be a problem, if you get a little heavy handed on the nitric, research using a button of gold during evaporation, or sulfamic acid, the urea will not help you with overuse of nitric acid and can actually become dangerous.

Start with Hoke's book and study of the forum, recovery and refining is not as easy as you think, there are a lot of little details that if you do not understand them cause major problems.

There are many dangers that without knowing how to work safely can be very dangerous to your health, and the health of others from the waste gases and toxic solutions, the health and safety of others and yourself is worth more than any gold you can recover or refine, it should be the most important thing to learn before attempting to do this type of work.


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## artart47 (Apr 17, 2015)

Hi friends!
Butcher; that is a great example to point our friend in the right direction. A while back I got about a pound and a half of crushed ceramic cpu's that had the pins removed. Yesterday I covered the material with HCl and got a vigerous reaction (base metals) I drained and saved the HCl and rinse water in a jar with copper to cement.
This morning! I covered the material with HCl. Next! I only added 3milliliters of 67% nitric acid and it has been reacting and producing the brown fumes all morning. I may have to add another couple ml. If the reaction stalls I'll add a milliliter at a time, That's all! (being heated by the sun)
If he has 5gallons of AR, then, he needs to follow your and the other members advise to put it away for now and start studying. It's like the new guy, in a big hurry, "more chemical is better".
Even with what I'm doing, I'm concearned that I may be adding too much nitric because I don't know the gold content of the material !
artart47


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