# Melting Furnace



## jmdlcar (Feb 18, 2021)

Do you think this Melting Furnace will work for a few years? If I get a lot of Sterling Silver or maybe Gold I might get one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-3-KG-Gold-Digital-Melting-Machine-Furnace-Kiln-110V-Refining-Gold-Silver-2102F/124260898383?var=425121962242&hash=item1cee86d64f:g:s~YAAOSw7HFfDsbA


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## justinhcase (Feb 19, 2021)

I absolutely hate those cheap bits of crap.
They need a specialist carbon crucible that dissolves if you try to even use a little bit of flux and O2 from the air making it very likely it will dump its contents onto your toes without any warming. 
The heating elements are completely exposed to all fumes and corrode at a startling rate.
Being so easy to plug in I have seen people using them in back bedrooms without ventilation or any adequate guards against fire.
I bought a small one when I first started, it lasted two or three melts and crapped out, when I sent it back the company simply denied ever hearing of me.
Build yourself a small gas powered furnace with quarts wool and refractory cement, it will cost you next to nothing build/operate and run for years.


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## gecox22 (Jun 23, 2021)

jmdlcar said:


> Do you think this Melting Furnace will work for a few years? If I get a lot of Sterling Silver or maybe Gold I might get one.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-3-KG-Gold-Digital-Melting-Machine-Furnace-Kiln-110V-Refining-Gold-Silver-2102F/124260898383?var=425121962242&hash=item1cee86d64f:g:s~YAAOSw7HFfDsbA



I bought a Tabletop furnace and love it. I use it to pour my finished silver stock. The one I use is similar to the model you posted but made by a different company. I find though the crucibles are easily eaten up pretty quickly if I am running over long periods of time. 



justinhcase said:


> I absolutely hate those cheap bits of crap.
> They need a specialist carbon crucible that dissolves if you try to even use a little bit of flux and O2 from the air making it very likely it will dump its contents onto your toes without any warming.
> The heating elements are completely exposed to all fumes and corrode at a startling rate.
> Being so easy to plug in I have seen people using them in back bedrooms without ventilation or any adequate guards against fire.
> ...



Some don't want the hassle of gas-powered rigs when they are doing it as a hobby. Not all tabletops are the same and maybe you got a bad unit. I have been using mine for about 6 years now and it hasn't had one issue besides the crucibles getting eaten up fairly quickly over long periods of use. But which is to be expected as this would be considered a consumable. If I took the time to research I am sure there would probably be a better crucible for the unit but. Had to break a process that has been working so well for me so far. 

I have also seen the videos of people using these in their bedrooms and in areas they shouldn't be. When I watch those I think about saying something and know they will just come back with some dumb remark or say mind you business so I just let Darwin will take care of it.


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## Gsracer (Jun 23, 2021)

jmd i have one of these, ive probably melted over 50 kilos of metal through it. Between silver and copper. It works great! It helps if you force air into the inlet with a shop vac, i can melt a kilo of silver in about 15 minutes.

https://www.amazon.com/FASTTOBUY-Graphite-Crucible-Refining-Smelting/dp/B082V9MTKQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=castmaster&qid=1624457790&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSkczN0tUSUxPVkwyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzQ1MDUzN09IMk85S1o4UUQ4JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwNzY1NDkzNlM1NDFUSkhLUkY5JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


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## etack (Jun 23, 2021)

I have A kerr brand one its nice and its a piece of crap for melting. It finally burnt up and I never looked back. The replacement parts are insane.

Eric


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## jmdlcar (Jun 24, 2021)

gecox22 said:


> jmdlcar said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think this Melting Furnace will work for a few years? If I get a lot of Sterling Silver or maybe Gold I might get one.
> ...



Is this the Table Top furnace your talking about or one like it? https://www.ebay.com/itm/382082324192?hash=item58f5e196e0:gXkAAOSwEVdfqqTh

How much Silver will it melt?


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## gecox22 (Jun 24, 2021)

jmdlcar said:


> gecox22 said:
> 
> 
> > jmdlcar said:
> ...



Nope this would be the one I was talking about. 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RJKRZP...abc_J8FHZRE7RP7A95E9HN5D?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Let me know if you have any questions

Thanks 

Glen


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## Ray Gun (Sep 2, 2021)

I am glad I read this thread as I was on the fence regarding the oxygen-acetylene torch with some portable propane torches and melt dishes that I have seen Steve aka Kadriver aka streetips use or getting this ...
https://www.amazon.in/Ashirwad-Enterprises-Melting-Furnace-Machine/dp/B08F2JQZNL/ref=asc_df_B08F2JQZNL/?tag=googleshopdes-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=396987343089&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=515297158145947800&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007761&hvtargid=pla-1003724951668&psc=1&ext_vrnc=hi

Video demonstration ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB6gM9lSVjU

I am never going to need to melt more than 1 kg even with Silver and a big arse gas furnace is over-kill from where I am standing. Unless you are refining 6 days a week and at that point, I am going to ask you how you are getting that much scrap to process?
Although this product is advertised on Amazon.in it is not *mickey-mouse* / made in China like the ones I have seen for sale in the US on Amazon/Ebay and you can buy a crucible (same dimensions) from another supplier that will withstand a 25 megatonne nuclear war-head if this stock one shows signs of giving out on you.
India has one of the biggest steel industries on the planet with our domestic crude steel production expanded from 109.85 Million Tonnes Per Annum to 168.45 Million Tonnes Per Annum.
So there is a strong history of products that are industrial standard here. Plus they are not made in China as we still manufacture (wink).

I do agree that getting a *mickey-mouse* crucible made in China (supplied with your *cheap-O* bench unit on Ebay) that drops a 500 gm load of gold on your steel-toe work boots is going to induce some profanity that would make your mother give you the stink-eye. 
But I would just say buy a legit crucible made out of high-quality materials to fit your furnace. Problem solved.

I think I will be avoiding running any gas here ... as why bother with the hassle of an oxygen-acetylene torch and or a big gas furnace when you do not need it. Streetips built one in his yard for peanuts but he needs YouTube content to keep up his subscription numbers (and their attention) and he needs to do those 2 kg silver smelting sessions (which he drops on the dirt).
Watch him do the poor at 9 min 27 ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urj9oCE2Y64&t=1s
Even I was holding my breath when he pulled the crucible out of the furnace with straight handled tongs ... I was thinking OMFG ... here we go!
But he did not drop it until he had the bar in situ ... extremely lucky indeed!
Having 2 kg of 961.8 °C smelted silver running around in your Italian loafers would have put a dent in your day.
But as Steve says in multiple videos "you are watching me learn here as I go!"

*If you read this Steve* ... you are the reason I gained the necessary motivation for getting involved in refining gold/silver. I would not be here without your efforts ... so nothing I say is intended in any form other than light heart jest.

My final point is that I would never be melting more than 200 gm of gold at a time and I doubt I will be melting any silver at all for a good while. 
I will be inquarting my gold with silver but I will only recover it by cementing it out on copper and washing it.
Until the futures contracts (paper markets) stop instigating this insidious *PM * suppression I will just leave my silver cemented out in industrial size plastic drums inside polyurethane.
What burglar is going to give a bunch of cement coloured powder in a blue plastic industrial drum that is stored in your ladder next to multiple other drums with WPC80/MPC/whole-egg powder/maltodextrin powder *etc* in them a second look!?
And it is cheaper than buying more bloody safes that scream *OPEN ME ... I CONTAIN VALUABLE ITEMS!*

I am getting off-topic here ... but I know a very wealthy guy here in Gujarat who built a villa up in a nice spot in the hills (hill station) and he had the bricks for the fireplace made to the same shape as his 1 kg bullion bars and then got to painting the bullion bars with white-wash like the bricks he had made for the fireplace ... he then built them into the brick fireplace himself when completing the villa after the other tradesmen had left the job-site.
I can think of worse places to stash your casino chips (under the bed is so obvious).
And no he did not tell me where the villa he built was *and I did not ask* ...


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## Ray Gun (Sep 3, 2021)

Gsracer said:


> jmd i have one of these, ive probably melted over 50 kilos of metal through it. Between silver and copper. It works great! It helps if you force air into the inlet with a shop vac, i can melt a kilo of silver in about 15 minutes.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/FASTTOBUY-Graphite-Crucible-Refining-Smelting/dp/B082V9MTKQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=castmaster&qid=1624457790&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSkczN0tUSUxPVkwyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzQ1MDUzN09IMk85S1o4UUQ4JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwNzY1NDkzNlM1NDFUSkhLUkY5JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==



This is not available thanks to the new world we all live in (the new normal) ... you will all be watching Streetips video on how to DIY your gas furnace soon. 
Supply chains are crashing most places you look when the item is not essential/frequently used.
And as all these units on Ebay/Amazon.com that you buy in the US are made in China so you will be seeing more and more *Not Available* notifications as the weeks click by.
China has not been shipping these kinds of itmes to the US because they do want your $ and has not for over 5 years now. Both China and Russia have been dumping US treasuries' (since 2015) like they have the bubonic plague and buying ... drum roll ... gold and silver bullion while the *LBMA and COMEX* is kind enough to let them have it for mickey-mouse prices ... and the *LBMA and COMEX* is only doing this PM suppression to try and maintain the stability of their currencies (oh the irony)! Can anyone spell EXTREMELY SHORT TERM FIX?
*The Domestic Politics of International Monetary Order: The Gold Standard
*
https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/9780203518588-23/domestic-politics-international-monetary-order-gold-standard-lawrence-broz


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## Davidjbaaa (Feb 24, 2022)

jmdlcar said:


> Do you think this Melting Furnace will work for a few years? If I get a lot of Sterling Silver or maybe Gold I might get one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you are looking for information regarding melting furnaces then try this one out it will help you under properly melting furnaces and what you can expect from them.

major-applications-of-induction-melting


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## InnaArtemieva (Mar 23, 2022)

I am still looking for the advise about good melting furnace and want to try this site worktime solutions.
​


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## justinhcase (Mar 23, 2022)

justinhcase said:


> I absolutely hate those cheap bits of crap.
> They need a specialist carbon crucible that dissolves if you try to even use a little bit of flux and O2 from the air making it very likely it will dump its contents onto your toes without any warming.
> The heating elements are completely exposed to all fumes and corrode at a startling rate.
> Being so easy to plug in I have seen people using them in back bedrooms without ventilation or any adequate guards against fire.
> ...


In any case, the amount such a stupid electric furnace can melt is far better managed in a melting dish and a good quality cutting torch, or in actual fact even a bad torch would be better, Propane and Oxygen is cheaper to run than acetylene.
A small furnace should be at least capable of a few kilos of metal.


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## campbellj46 (Apr 1, 2022)

Every time I try to use my furnace for gold, Using a sand casting mold, this is what I get. It just doesn't get hot enough to liquefy the gold for a good pour. Silver, works great, but gold, not so great. That's 150.1 gram messed up gold "bar" that'll go into the forge.


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## campbellj46 (Apr 1, 2022)

These little electric furnaces are fine for silver, a 3 kilo crucible costs about $29 and I get 20 pours from each 1. They just don't do the job for gold.


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## Rreyes097 (Oct 2, 2022)

So I'm trying to melt my gold in my little electric furnace. But it's not working cuz it's not getting hot enough. Any advice on how to get it to get hot enough make it work better some hot all I need to do is melt one gold!


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 2, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So I'm trying to melt my gold in my little electric furnace. But it's not working cuz it's not getting hot enough. Any advice on how to get it to get hot enough make it work better some hot all I need to do is melt one gold!


How much are you melting?
Most of us just use torches.


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## Rreyes097 (Oct 2, 2022)

Yeah it ended up being little over 25 grams. I just posted a picture of my warped gold button.


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## goldshark (Oct 2, 2022)

Ray Gun said:


> I am glad I read this thread as I was on the fence regarding the oxygen-acetylene torch with some portable propane torches and melt dishes that I have seen Steve aka Kadriver aka streetips use or getting this ...
> 
> 
> Amazon.in
> ...



Please ask where he lives, then post answer here.


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## Ray Levi (Oct 3, 2022)

campbellj46 said:


> These little electric furnaces are fine for silver, a 3 kilo crucible costs about $29 and I get 20 pours from each 1. They just don't do the job for gold.
> View attachment 49326


Where can I buy a furnace like this for $29?


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## Ray Levi (Oct 3, 2022)

Ray Levi said:


> Where can I buy a furnace like this for $29?


Oh, I guess you are referring to the crucible.


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## kurtak (Oct 3, 2022)

IMO & for what it is worth - one of the best investments you (you being anyone) that is going to get into the hobby/business of recovery &/or refining of PMs is to buy a (or make your own) propane fired furnace --- like the one justincase provided a pic of

Besides melting - a propane fired furnace can also be used for smelting & incineration/pyrolizing - AND - they will give you MANY years of service (& cupelling if you do lead collector smelts)

If you are going to do any smelting or incineration/pyrolizing you want one that will hold "*at least*" a #10 crucible

I have two propane furnaces - one that holds a #4 crucible used mostly for melting (though I have done *small* smelts in it) and one that holds a #40 crucible used mostly for smelting & incineration (and *large* melts) 

For the dollars invested - those two furnaces were the single best investment I ever made & allowed me to step up my recovery/refining game from a hobby to a money making business

IMO - those bench top electric furnaces are a waste of money (& yes - when I* first *started I had one)

They are good for one thing & one thing only & that is for melting silver (or lower melt temp metals) in

They don't get hot enough to melt gold or coper in (at least not well) *& you can not do any smelting in them *

Smelting in them will destroy both the crucibles & the heating elements in them *in very short order !!!*

Likewise with trying to incinerate/pyrolizing in them due to the acidic gases/fumes produced in the incineration/pyrolizing process

IMO (& speaking from experience) you are *WAY ahead* of the ball game by spending a few dollars more for a propane furnace - as they will do more work for you & do so for a much longer time (years) 

For what it is worth (IMO)

Kurt


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## kurtak (Oct 3, 2022)

Amazon.in



Holy crap - $7,000 for a (electric) furnace that will only melt 1kg metal

I (you) can buy a propane furnace (10kg crucible) for $400









Gas Metal Melting Furnace FB2Mb - 10Kg Full Set







devil-forge.com





Kurt


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## orvi (Oct 3, 2022)

kurtak said:


> Amazon.in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or you can buy induction furnance from China - Aliexpress. For ca 1500 USD you can get one which will provide 7kW of power (rated for 15, but 7-8 is real limit due to frequencies, coil efficiencies, overall eff... etc  ). Maybe a bit expensive toy for startup, but once you experience the comfort of the induction, you are never going back  Very efficient in heat transfer, very very quick, convenient, easily regulated... Perfect tool for mid-grade equipped refining shop. Of course, we have 35kW variant, that can run from 3000-5000 USD, but is more convenient because of 3 phase plug - and you can do practically whatever you want with it... Smelting 10 kg of incinerated board trimmings in few dozen minutes past 1350°C... Efficiently you can heat 5 gallon crucible with it to do convenient smelts past 100kg of material. 

Consider also this option  it is well worth the money if you want to stand up from propane a little bit, sometimes you need to conveniently smelt the PGMs etc...  I didn´t trusted the thing from beginning (as it originate in China), but we have two and never had bad experience with them, they work well for like 4 years... And we "abuse" them quite a bit  One transformer needed to be repaired after we baked it a little  completely our fault.


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## GoIdman (Oct 4, 2022)

jmdlcar said:


> Do you think this Melting Furnace will work for a few years? If I get a lot of Sterling Silver or maybe Gold I might get one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you insist on electric furnace, try to find a used Calcination furnace sold for dental labs. It gets up to 1300 C, it is closed system, My furnace is on rebuild right now (for some time actually, but i didnt have time to rebuild it with the new heating element and controller). It lasts forever if you use it correctly, it has a kanthal heating wire, by upgrade you can change the heating wire from 1,5kw to 2,5-3kW which will last even more.


I have to agree with fellow members, the best investment is a gas operated furnace.

Be safe,

Pete


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## Thomacus (Oct 4, 2022)

It would be nice but all your home hobbest In the USA do not have 3 phase power at home


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## Thomacus (Oct 4, 2022)

Thomacus said:


> It would be nice but all your home hobbest In the USA do not have 3 phase power at home


you can use a transformer with about 50 amp braker


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## 4metals (Oct 4, 2022)

Since the price has gone up a bit for melt considerations, consider this. A small assay furnace. If you read Chapman’s book called How to Smelt your Gold and Silver he discusses using electric assay furnaces for melting. (Great book and in simple common English for the non technical refiners.) I’ve used Vcella Kilns assay furnaces for over 30 years and they are as close to bullet-proof as you can get. And parts are available and they are easy to rebuild. 

Why an assay furnace? Well it gets hot enough to melt gold and silver and they are quiet (my only complaint with a gas furnace is they are not quiet). But a small refiner starting out needs an ability to know the value of what he or she is refining. Fire assaying is key to that and this furnace is made for that and at the same time it can do crucible melts in small crucibles. So two birds one stone. 

The smallest furnace is a 6” cube inside and they get much larger. (The smallest is about $1400 in 2022) The biggest unit you would want to stand in front of to work is a #13. Bigger than that and you need a full heat suit and hood just to stand there for a second to load it. 

I have clients who are big refiners and do a lot of chemical stone removal. The problem they have is is the lots here in the US can be quite small with lots often being a kilo incoming. One way to piss off a manager of a melt shop who is set up to melt huge bars all day is bring him a 15 ounce fine gold lot to melt. One way I have shown many to get around this is to have a small assay furnace in the refining lab and when they get a small melt it’s perfect. The refining shop gets to hand in a melted fine gold bar separate from any undissolved which is easily melted even if it is a fraction of an ounce. And they don’t interrupt the melt shop with lots that are inconveniently small. 

An assay furnace can be quite versatile in a start up refinery. I would likely choose it over a gas furnace to start. But soon thereafter followed by a gas pot melt furnace. 

I would like to see some brochures or a website from the $1500 induction furnaces from China though, out of curiosity.


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## Vossmor (Oct 5, 2022)

kurtak said:


> Amazon.in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That price was in India rupee, or about $90USD. Shipping cost unknown.


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## 4metals (Oct 5, 2022)

Despite the fact that the type of furnace Ashirwad makes rarely holds up to repeated melts, the crucible size is quite small. They usually rate these things by the weight of fine gold they hold when filled to the top. A1 kg crucible is quite small, picture a 1" diameter dowel about 3" long. And if you are melting silver it's more like 1/2 kg, same for 10K scrap. 

Refining, on any level, presents equipment with vigorous and difficult conditions which takes its toll on furnaces, hot plates, stirrers, glassware...... (the list can go on). If you can, buy things that 1, you can repair, and 2, have a good reputation for longevity.


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## snoman701 (Oct 5, 2022)

The small chinese induction melters work. I have one. Takes 3-5 minutes to melt a lb of gold. That's start to finish. Hardest thing about them is finding quality crucibles. 

I also have the vcella, though I need to replace my heating elements right now.


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