# how to recover my gold foils after ap?



## artart47 (Sep 2, 2011)

Hi! I ran a test batch of fingers in ap following steve's video.
after all the foils were removed, I set the inner bucket that contained the stripped fingers aside and filtered the ap liquid, which had turned almost black. 
I washed the filter content into container "A".
Then I noticed that there were still many foils clinging to the stripped fingers so I rinsed them with water into container "B".while they were still in the drilled bucket like in the video.
I now have...
Container A It has been rinsed twice with HCl and contains gold foils,brown/black granuals/powder, in a little HCl/rinse H2O.
" " B It contains gold foil, allot of what looks like what a sheet of toilet paper looks like if you were to stir it up in a glass of water( the color is like dissolved solder mask only very pail) and rinse water
and, my reaction bucket. It contains ap solution ( used to process the fingers) color, dark greenish brown almost black.
I'm wondering how to proceed?
about cont. "A" 
should I separate the gold foils from the dark solids? What are they? If seperated, return them to the reaction bucket?
about cont. "B" The fingers were closely cut so what is the toilet paper looking stuff and how do i get it separated from the gold foils?
about react.. bucket? I've read in a post that i can bubble air thru the ap to rejuvenate it. will that make dissolved Au. drop out as the ap lightens in color? or can I process another batch of fingers in the solution untill it's saturated with Au.? ( once I figure out what my problem is!) and, If I can reuse it for more fingers, would I first warm it to evaporate the water from the 3% H2O2 thus reducing the volume back to where I started? Would I add more HCl and peroxide to keep the reaction going or is the acid just revamped by adding only peroxide like during the first batch?
This is exciting but I would appreciate any advice you have to offer! Thanks! artart47


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## Geo (Sep 2, 2011)

the hcl+peroxide isnt what dissolves the copper base metal, its the copper chloride solution. just reuse the same solution over and over again with a bubbler of course.take the foils with the white stuff and add a little fresh hcl acid to it and see if the white stuff dissolves, if not dont worry about it because it wont matter in the end because you will leave it behind in the next step. take all the foils from both containers and rinse with tap water till theres no color to the water. filter the foils and what ever else is with it as long as its no big peices of base metal. allow the foils to dry. try placing the filter with the foils in a dry warm place like on top of the fridge overnight. when its all dry place foils in a clean container and add hcl (just enough to cover the foils) then add chlorine bleach by very small increments, 15-20 ml at a time and stir after each time. look at the foils after each time you add bleach and when all the foils are dissolved place the container in a safe place that it wont be spilled (do not put a lid on the container). the afore mentioned process should be done outside or in a fume hood as chlorine gas will be produced. wait 24 hours for the chlorine to evaporate and then you can precipitate your gold with which ever precipitate you choose. theres more but im tired, when you get this far post a comment and youll get further instruction.


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## lazersteve (Sep 2, 2011)

Combine all of the foils and trash into one container using a spray bottle, then wash with HCl to remove the copper I chloride 
. Proceed to dissolving the washed foils with a minomal amount of your favorite solvent for gold ( AR, HCl-Cl, etc).

Don't mix the rinse solutions with the primary solution (black) if you want to reuse the AP.

Steve


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## artart47 (Sep 11, 2011)

Hi everyone!
Geo & Steve, I want to thank you for your help.
The white stuff disolved immediatly when I washed w/HCl. I've collected all the foils,gold powder and filtrate mud in one container and will run them in HCl-Cl soon. Thanks again!
I've been running an air hose/fish tank pump in the ap bucket since i asked you about it,but don't understand about the air.
What does it do to the ap solution to rejuvinate it? And, would I run it now when i'm not processing fingers or just durring when I have material in the solution? also, is air a substitute instead of adding more H2O2 durring the next batch?
I,ve got pictures of my results and will post them as soon as I find a ten year old who can help me get them from the camera into the computer!
Later!


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## Palladium (Sep 11, 2011)

artart47 said:


> I've been running an air hose/fish tank pump in the ap bucket since i asked you about it,but don't understand about the air.
> What does it do to the ap solution to rejuvinate it? And, would I run it now when i'm not processing fingers or just durring when I have material in the solution? also, is air a substitute instead of adding more H2O2 durring the next batch?



We need oxygen to convert copper to copper oxide so the hcl can absorb it into solution. Hcl alone will not dissolve copper. So attack rate is tie to the amount of oxygen that we can get into a solution. When you add h2o2 at the beginning it allows some copper oxide to form so the process can start. Once started you don't have to add h2o2 anymore because the air pump supplies the dissolved oxygen you need. If you’re not going to do any more processing you can store the solution in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid. Then once you take it back out to use just drop the air bubbler back in and your good to go.


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## artart47 (Sep 25, 2011)

hey everyone!
 This is what I recovered from my fisrt attempt at ap from cards memory ect... with your help of course! I feel like I chased a beautiful woman for two years (reading and learning) and finally scored with her!
Thanks!
I hope the picturs show up, never did pics on the computer before.


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## butcher (Sep 25, 2011)

Good going, that is a pretty golden lady post more pictures of her blooming into a button, your hands look like mine, I never did learn how to post pictures, are you at dennys resturant there? wonder if my dennys has a bowl of that on the menu?


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## jmdlcar (Sep 26, 2011)

After I use AP and rinsed 3 times if I understand it I use HCL again how long do I wait before I rinse again? I might have a problem I have some green paint mix with the gold foil can it be fix?


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## Geo (Sep 26, 2011)

what ever material thats mixed with the foils will be left behind when you dissolve the foils. paint will not effect this process. if the foils are off and you have rinsed them with hcl the next step is to dissovle the foils with hcl+cl then filter this solution following the steps on lazersteves website. all non-metal material will be left in the filter.


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## Smack (Sep 26, 2011)

I would say investing in rubber gloves would not be a bad idea. :shock:


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## butcher (Sep 28, 2011)

The hands are worn from work, not refining.


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## artart47 (Nov 6, 2011)

Hi everyone!
Just an update on what I've been doing since my first AP trial!
My gold foils are safely put away till it's acid/chlorox time. Thanks to everyone who helped me with that!
Two other, small experiments I've been doing in order to become familiar with what I've been reading are...
I ran a second AP bucket with about eighty populated cell phone boards. The boards are totally clean and the thin gold plating seems to have dissolved into the solution or is in the filtrate.( hey gold, you can hide, but you can't escape! I'm commin back later and I'll find you!) I put away the powder/mud and the SMD's and have the solution on the side for later use/study.
I've been trying the search but, haven't really found anything about how to proceed with this. I plan to collect SMD's and eventually grind them to a fine powder and see what they yield.
The second is the one that I find interesting. I put a bunch of plated pins in a bucket and covered them with HCl. They have been in there for over a month. I agitate the bucket everytime I walk past, About every week I take a thick blunt ended piece of plastic and stir while mashing the pins on the bottom of the pail. I wanted to see if the gold would flake off parts of the pins that were partly hallowed out by the leaching of the base metals thereby exposing the remaining base metals to increased contact with the acid. after each mashing the brown acid is loaded with gold flakes and is poured off and filtered. I then add new acid to cover the pins. I've done five such pour-offs.
I added in with the pins some of the very small, pins left in their plastic holders. I wanted to find out if the pins, given enough time and agitation. could be leached out of the plastic. Most of the pins were extracted from the plastic by the process. As I spry d water into the holes, the little gold particles came out the other side, free of base metal and the holes appear to be empty when held up to a light.
The jar contains the filtrate from this process. I did the following treatments to the contents of the jar.
Filled it with HCl and brought it to a simmer in a water bath and decanted.
Repeated with tap water. HCl,tape water had no visual affect.
repeated with 32% H2SO4 then with water. This seems to have reduced the volume by about 30%
I'm pretty sure that the H2SO4 reacted and the hot water dissolved it, but, both when settled and decanted seemed to be clear with no color.
I learned some things. I now have a scale and will be able to keep accurate records of my future work. 
I'd like to know if I'm on the right track with what I'm doing. and any advise or links to posts that could help me plan the next step for these materials.
I hope the pics show up. I had a hard time with them and my daughter said they will show up when I post. I also included a, sort of" haul of the day" pic of the load I got from the storeroom of a software design company. 
thanks


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## Geo (Nov 6, 2011)

artart47 said:


> I ran a second AP bucket with about eighty populated cell phone boards. The boards are totally clean and the thin gold plating seems to have dissolved into the solution or is in the filtrate.



gold on cell phone boards are like telecom boards,the gold is very thin and will seldom come of in sheets or even big flakes.usually it comes off in finely divided particles,its there but the pieces is so small its mixed in with the junk.take all the solids and process with hcl/cl.the solution will be dirty and green,filter through a couple of filters and precipitate.it will drag down impurities like copper so it will need to be refined again.



artart47 said:


> after each mashing the brown acid is loaded with gold flakes and is poured off and filtered. I then add new acid to cover the pins.



really no need to do this.if you had an air supply in your AP it wouldn't take as long and there would be no need to keep adding acid.hcl acid does not dissolve copper but copper chloride will.you need the dark colored solution to dissolve the copper,every time you drained it off and replaced it with fresh acid you actually slowed the process down.copper chloride will etch copper as long as oxygen is present to oxidize the copper,adding an air supply such as a fish bubbler keeps the solution aerated and rich with oxygen speeding up the process.


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## artart47 (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks Geo for your imput, just wanted to clearify. I did run air in the AP. The stiring ,mashing and pour-offs were in the other bucket with the plated pins which were covered only with HCl. I figured that the pin is a hollow tube of Au filled with base metal. Acid can only get at the one end of the pin because the rest of it is protected by theAu.so I wanted to see if as the tube was mined of it's core,say 10% of if it's legnth, the hollow gold tube could be broken up thereby exposing new base metal. 
I noticed my pics didn't post. I'm going to find a nine--year old to come they know everything about doing this computer crap. they even can make the VCR stop flashing "00" "00"


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 6, 2011)

Your solution will get thru the gold plating thru the pores in the gold and work on the base metals.


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## maek1 (Nov 23, 2011)

Hi guys ! I just wanted to say you are all great guys and im glad I found this forum. ok so Ive been using ap solution for cpu pins and connector pins. Ive been reading the forums for days and Ive used air bubbler and also ive used heat, but its not dissolving all the base metal. It looks like the gold is plating back out as black powder , Ive been reading hokes book but not much there on escrap lol! any help would be much appreciated .


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## Geo (Nov 23, 2011)

maek1 said:


> Hi guys ! I just wanted to say you are all great guys and im glad I found this forum. ok so Ive been using ap solution for cpu pins and connector pins. Ive been reading the forums for days and Ive used air bubbler and also ive used heat, but its not dissolving all the base metal. It looks like the gold is plating back out as black powder , Ive been reading hokes book but not much there on escrap lol! any help would be much appreciated .



how long has it been since you put the material in the solution?

what percentages did you mix the AP?

what condition is the solution in?

is there loose foils floating in the solution?


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## artart47 (Dec 14, 2011)

Hi everyone!
My gold jar is filling up! Everyone at Denney's is calling me "miner".
I thought I'd post an update on the kind of routine I've fallen into.
I have been running three basic buckets for a while, all the fingers comming in go in the AP bucket, beautiful green gives me a steady supply of foils that get a day in the Hcl jar and the are added to my stash jar.
I cut all the gold connectors and plated pins from small things either snip off the ends that have solder or drop them in HCl and then they go in AP bucket no# 2, I put the in plastic and all. The old ones stay in and the new ones are added. The contents gets mash and stirred often. air bubbler too.
As the base metals get eaten away the liquid is filled with little gold flecks. I stir it violently and decant to another bucket and then filter back into the origonal bucket and get a constant supply of gold from it. I've been collecting the plastic floaters, most of them have no metal left in them!
Then I am still using No#3 The depopulating experiment bucket. About 2-1/2 gallons AP I've been doing cell and other simple boards that have very thin gold plating. The gold vanishes into the solution and I collect all the smd's for later.
Now, this solution is so dark and is getting heavy/thicker and seems to be like saturated. From reading posts and searching, I,m trying to drop everything with copper so I can process solution for disposal or can it be turned back for AP use after the other metals drop and are removed?
To start it last night, I hung a piece of stranded copper cable in it and have air going. I plan to put any dropped residue aside till I learn how to process it. Why when you try to wash this filtrate from the filter with a sprey-bottle( H2O) does it turn blue w/ white precipitate? Is this the tin problem I'm reading about or a lead salt or the copper change from CuII toCuI? It's the next thing I was going to start studing!
I really want to thank Geo, Steve and the others that helped me and gave their advise thus far!
If you think of a post or tutorial that might help me I'd appreciate hearing of it!

ps. I'm getting a load of stuff ready for a trip down to boardsort in Ohio.
Getting excited! Haven't been on a trip in a long time. Scarey though! Old "88" Chevy pick-up,Wi-Ohio. 
If it works at least the kids will have a Christmas this year!
Kinda like I'd be leaving as"scrap guy" and returning as Santa Clause!
Thanks everyone and have a great Christmas!


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## Geo (Dec 14, 2011)

artart47 said:


> Now, this solution is so dark and is getting heavey/thicker and seems to be like saturated. From reading posts and searching, I,m trying to drop everything with copper so I can process solution for disposal or can it be turned back for AP use after the other metals dropand are removed?
> To start it last night, I hung a piece of stranded copper cable in it and have air going. I plan to put any dropped residue aside till I learn how to process it.



treat this solution as you would any "stock pot". it sounds like your solution is indeed saturated. remove the air supply and whatever copper that is left. carefully decant this solution to another container as to not disturb any solids in the bottom of the bucket, a better method would be to syphon this solution out of the bucket (if you need help with this, lazersteve has a video on his website that shows the process). stop short of any solids then transfer these solids to another container as these solids will contain any values be carefull not to spill. replace the solution and the air supply and let air bubble through the solution for a few days untill the solution clears to a lighter emerald color. the solution should be ready to reuse. take the solids you recovered and rinse with hot water as many times as it takes so that the rinse water remains clear. digest a small sample in hcl/cl and test with stannous chloride to see if it holds any values.


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## artart47 (Dec 15, 2011)

Thanks Geo! Will do.


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## artart47 (Dec 24, 2011)

Hi everyone, merry christmas!
It's gonna be the big evening that I been waiting for! My gut is full of butterflies! I have everything ready on the bench to "HCl/Cl" my gold jar contents. Got tears in my eyes right now, yeah!! Goning to finally see that beautiful auric chloride dripping from the bottom of the funnel!
It's been two years of scarfing computers, cell phones,converters and everythingelse with PM's; A good year on the forum learning to be dangerous! Ha Ha! And a few months APing fingers,pins and filtering little gold flecks from solution buckets untill they actually start talking to you at 3am!
I hope my teachers will be proud! artart47.


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## tek4g63 (Dec 24, 2011)

That's exciting stuff. Can't wait to see the pics from this part of the process. I'm going down the same road as you, just I'm about 6 months behind ya! But I have a tuch over 10g of foils so far. Good luck man, I'm excited for ya!


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## pimpneightez (Dec 24, 2011)

really no need to do this.if you had an air supply in your AP it wouldn't take as long and there would be no need to keep adding acid.hcl acid does not dissolve copper but copper chloride will.you need the dark colored solution to dissolve the copper,every time you drained it off and replaced it with fresh acid you actually slowed the process down.copper chloride will etch copper as long as oxygen is present to oxidize the copper,adding an air supply such as a fish bubbler keeps the solution aerated and rich with oxygen speeding up the process.[/quote]

I have an oxygen concentrator that blows 98% pure oxygen. Any hazards in using this? will it work faster with higher concentrations of oxygen?


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## Geo (Dec 24, 2011)

pimpneightez said:


> really no need to do this.if you had an air supply in your AP it wouldn't take as long and there would be no need to keep adding acid.hcl acid does not dissolve copper but copper chloride will.you need the dark colored solution to dissolve the copper,every time you drained it off and replaced it with fresh acid you actually slowed the process down.copper chloride will etch copper as long as oxygen is present to oxidize the copper,adding an air supply such as a fish bubbler keeps the solution aerated and rich with oxygen speeding up the process.



I have an oxygen concentrator that blows 98% pure oxygen. Any hazards in using this? will it work faster with higher concentrations of oxygen?[/quote]

too much oxygen as i have learned is not a good thing for AP. the oxygen supply in regular air should be fine. an excess of oxygen will dissolve gold into solution and with the excess of oxygen could dissolve quite a bit of the gold. you would rather your gold show up as glittering foils rather than some black powder that would be easier to overlook or discard.


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## pimpneightez (Dec 27, 2011)

Intresting, I was just trying to think outside the box on this one. You never know where a good idea will come from, or a bad one.


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## steyr223 (Dec 28, 2011)

Thank you
I've been wondering the same thing


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## artart47 (Jan 1, 2012)

Happy New Year!
I did my recovered gold with the HCl/Cl, was that ever cool! everything seems to have dissolved except the garbage. I posted the pics of the dirty solution. I just found a great "auric chloried jar" at the salvation army, looks like the one in Steve's video. So I'll be filtering it when I get home from Denny's! I'll get some pics.
I did it outside on the driveway, just brought it inside to get the pics!
Any noobs that are about to attemp this, never do a reaction like this indoors or in an enclosed space. I was outside and upwind of the container and I was surprized at how violent the reaction is and the amount of chlorine fumes that are released! ADD CHLOROX ONLY A SMALL AMOUNT AT A TIME! It will boil over! wear protection too!
Be back soon!
artart47


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## tek4g63 (Jan 1, 2012)

Artart47,
Can't wait to see more. Thank you for reminding everyone how serious safety is. Even breathing a small amount of fumes can be awful for your health. 

Just wondering how much your foils weighed dry, and how much your refined powder weighs when your finished. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that would love to know the before and after yealds. This is a very exciting process, isn't it? I'm not at the the refining ( HCL/CL ) process yet, but I'm getting closer all the time. It's awesome to see the foils pile up.

Thank you for letting all of us be a part of the fun with you!


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## Geo (Jan 1, 2012)

artart47,
looking good so far.when you precipitate the gold it will still be impure so you may need to refine it again.this time when you dissolve it you will see nothing but the rich golden color of AuCl.you have done a great job.keep up the good work.


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## artart47 (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey!
Went home and got the filtering done! I added some water to the left over debris so i can make sure i get all the gold chloride out of it and into the filter. The debris is a dark almost black powder that diden't dissolve in HCl/Cl. It is changing from the bottom up to granuals that look like the copper sulfate crystals from my childhood science kit. it seems to happen as i wash the powder with water and the acid level drops. I'll try to get a picture of it tonight.
Tech4g... God, it is exciting! It just seems to take forever to get to the next step! about the before and after. I can't say exactly. The computers that i've been getting are older,and about half were commercial and industrial. I had no scale as I started the fingers in AP. I weighed the stripped finger pieces at 14lbs, then there is gold flecks from filtering the bucket in which i soak plated connectors...
Everything (recovered gold) went into the storage jar and soaked in HCl untill now. as the acid would turn green I'd syphon it down and add a little fresh. The final time it stayed pretty clear so I figured the gold was clean. They were always in HCl along with some garbage and I coulden't get their wieght. I'll post wieght of the dryed powder after the drop!
Just keep collecting man! I wanna see you on here doing you gold!

Geo!
Thanks. you advised me along while back, when I first got started,to put the foils and all the garbage in a container and the next step would take care of it. Cool how that works! When you're a noob and panicking, advise from someone like you,Steve, Herold means alot!
You're right. I'll have to refine a second time, do the "Herold wash" on the powder. The jar is already starting to acumulate again.
Here is a picture of the AuCl. It's pretty clear but I had to keep wiping off the condensation on the outside of the jar to get the picture. It was cold from being outside.
Thanks everyone!


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## artart47 (Jan 8, 2012)

Hi evreyone!
Did the gold drop this morning! I made a saturated solution of smb last night, took it outside today and mixed it in. My AuCl got clear and then brown like the video. after an hour, when the sulphur smell died down I put saran wrap over the top, loose and brought it inside where it's alittle warmer. This is dirty gold and will be rerefined so I hope the powder drops like it's supposed to.
I diden't have any pure tin so I got some 95%tin/5%antimony solder,disolved it in HCl to make stannis test. There are some black bits in the bottom and the piece of solder is coated with black. I assume that is the antimony. Hope it dosen't affect the test! I did a spot test with it from my auric chloride, turned jet black, so I put one drop of AuCl in 10-12 drops water and the q-tip turned very dark purple!
Getting some breakfast at Denny's and will check on it when I get home! Can't wait!
Later artart47

The background?
I'm loading everything on the trailed and truck for my trip to boardsort!
Also added a pic of my next step in learning refining! I get alot of good old stuff with alot of gold.


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## Geo (Jan 8, 2012)

you still have gold in the solution.if it test positive even after a few minutes of adding SMB then you need to add more SMB.show us the gold when it all drops. i hope boardsort pays you a very good price if your selling them whats in the photos because that stuff looks very rich. :mrgreen:


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## artart47 (Jan 8, 2012)

Hey Geo!
The stuff going to boardsort is about a thousand pounds of mb's, defingered cards/memory ,hd boards, de wired power supplies, boardless hard drives, all from "best buy grade" computers. I am going to learn to refine all the rich stuff.
Cpu's will probably be my next quest! I'm enjoying the hell out of this experience! Thanks for all the help! I'm gonna test for gold when I get back.
artart47


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## artart47 (Jan 8, 2012)

Powder down, q-tip from stannis test.


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## Geo (Jan 8, 2012)

good job.looks good too,good color.


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## tek4g63 (Jan 8, 2012)

Looking great man! Can't wait to see the finished button.


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## artart47 (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks guys!!


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## artart47 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hey everyone!
I'm rolling right along! let the smb solution settle and syphon-decanted down near the powder. then transfered the left over to a smaller dish for washing.
I have no experience handling powder. It's a real pain in the exhaust porthole. The powder never completely settles! it's on the walls of the container, The syphoned or decanted liquid seems, upon magnification to have millions of tiny particals of gold. to get it back in the dish,(sprey-bottle) just keep ending up with larger liquid volume. I just checked on the decanted smb jar and there is a very fine gold coating on the bottom and parts of the side of the jar.
I assume that by the time I would complete all the steps of "Herold washing" I'd have like two gallons of liquid or have gold powder all over everything. HaHa !
I been doing a little searching for anything, a post, tutorial that teaches how to tranfer and wash Au powder and keep it contained.
If anyone can point me to such I'd be thankfull!

artart47


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## martyn111 (Jan 10, 2012)

artart47 said:


> I been doing a little searching for anything, a post, tutorial that teaches how to tranfer and wash Au powder and keep it contained.
> If anyone can point me to such I'd be thankfull!
> 
> artart47



I would say that the precipitated gold shouldn't leave the vessel in which it is dropped, until it has been washed and redissolved or washed and dried ready for melting, eliminating the chances of loosing any powder during the transfer process.

Editted for clarity


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## Geo (Jan 10, 2012)

if the gold is pure it will settle quickly.if you think theres gold floating, add a drop of dish soap.just put a drop on your finger and swish it in the water.let it sit over night .by the next day the water should be crystal clear. also gold sticking to the side of the glass means the glass was dirty and may be sticking to particles too fine to see with the naked eye.


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## Dwsj65 (Jan 19, 2012)

So am I understanding correctly from this thread that fingers as well as pins can both be processed in AP with a bubbler? If that is the case then I wonder why they need to be separated? (Not doubting, just curious)


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## Geo (Jan 19, 2012)

i don't remember anyone saying they had to be separated, but if they did say it there may have been some other reason than compatibility.maybe they said it because fingers are generally clean with no solder and pins can be contaminated with solder.i don't see this as a cause to separate the two. its always a good thing to keep as much solder out of your AP as possible, but the two can be processed together and for the sake of time and materials i recommend that they are processed together.


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## Dwsj65 (Jan 19, 2012)

Awesome. Thanks Geo. I understand that no one says they have to be separated. But it seems that every post I read where someone is talking about processing boards, they are usually told to separate them and process them separate and then in parentheses it usually says (fingers, pins, chips, etc.) So I guess I mistakenly thought they NEEDED to be processed separately. Not necessarily HAD to be.


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## artart47 (Feb 18, 2012)

Hi everyone!
I was on a post by Brafforda, a newer member, and I found out how helpful our posts are when it comes to noobies learning the art of refining! It feels really good to find out that I was able to help someone just as I was taught be the more skilled members when I first arrived here.
So! I'm going to process, fingers to button, a very small batch of fingers that I have ready for " acid/peroxide" 
This can be a simple guide for any noobs to get started.
This is not a replacement for reading Hoke book, the forum hand books and The posts about safety! You will eventually have to safely disspose of your chemicals, you will need to study and understand that before you reach that point. ( all it would take is one of us caught dumping a bucket of chemical someplace and that would be the end of gold refining by the little people!)
Eye /face protection, ventilation ( don't be breathing the fumes) and when you're not there a secure location where kids, pets, or others can't get injured by you chemicals!
Have a water supply at hand in case you get acid on your skin .I also keep a box of baking soda near in case of an accident. I can nutralize my ap solution if spilled!
ALL THIS INFO IS HERE ON THE FORUM, YOU ARE EXPECTED TO READ AND LEARN IT!

I will put the cut fingers in the ap solution. The bucket you see here is the first bucket of ap that I started with. It can be rejuvinated and used endlessly with a little care.
I made it from Muriatic Acid (hydrochloric acid) 31% that I bought at Menards home improvement store for $3.49/gal. It's a little more at home Depot. and Hydrogen peroxide from Walgreen's 3% 
The mix was 1 gal. HCl and 1 pint bottle peroxide (H2O2).
The fingers are a fiberglass or resin board that has copper laid over it and the gold foils are plated onto the copper. to remove the gold we want to dissolve the copper.
The copper will dissolve in a copper chloride solution if it is first oxydized. Our solution has peroxide to start it going by oxydizing copper, then the copper oxide will react to become copper chloride. The solution will build up copper chloride and it will not need any more hydrogen peroxide. It's just to get it going.
Here are the pics of the fingers,weighed, in the inner bucket with holes in the bottom and being placed in the AP, actually it's now a copper chloride solution . this will free the foils from the board.


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## niteliteone (Feb 18, 2012)




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## butcher (Feb 18, 2012)

Artart47, 
Thought I would add a tid bit, I am sure you are going to post more on this subject here later.

The smaller bucket has holes drilled in the bottom; a couple of holes close to one of the bottom edge will let liquid drain when tilted.

I use an old microwave oven turntable glass for a lid to keep leaves out of my solution.

After initial reaction of peroxide, air can be pumped in from a little fish tank air compressor and an air hose, the fish tank stone can be used but they eventually fall apart, the hose end can be sealed shut with heat, and a pin heated to red hot can poke holes in the side of the tubing (to act as a bubbler) the air will do the same as the dilute peroxide, without adding more water to the solution.

Laser Steve has a document on his web site that explains how this Copper II Chloride etching process (acid peroxide), works, reading it will also help member learn how to keep the solution healthy, and what to do when copper I Chloride white powders show up in the bottom with their gold foils and solution turns very dark brown...


I will usually process pins and foils seperately, as many times pins have a lot of copper (some types can have other metals involve like iron in kovar, ), foils are very thin copper foil, they can be run together, but generally seperating these just makes things simpler to deal with.


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## artart47 (Feb 19, 2012)

Thanks Butcher!
That was some of what I was going to add today. I have a small problem this week, I get internet from the neighbors accross the street, they are in Arizona and the power killed to their router and I can't get on. I have to use the old laptop I got from the police dept cleaning out the evidence locker and it won't run on the charger I found but I can charge it and go to denney's for wifi.
I was racing to get the post up before the battery died! Thanks again!
artart47


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## Claudie (Feb 19, 2012)

:shock: Don't you have any gloves?


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## artart47 (Feb 19, 2012)

Hi!
it's the next morning and I just checked on the ap project! About 20% of the foils have come off already. Butcher added some things I coulden't get to yesterday.
After I took the pics last night, I put the bucket outside and put the plastic airhose from the fish tank bubbler to supply oxygen as the reaction continues.it replaces having to keep adding peroxide. another thing it does is agitates the solution and that helps it work faster. I diden't think to show the bottom of the inner bucket that holds the fingers! I drilled alot of small holes to make it like a sieve and a few holes close to the edge so it can be drained. LazerSteve shows the original on his website ap video.
I wanted to mention one thing,your new ap seems to work very slow but, the reaction gets faster the more you use it. I'm under the impresion that as it loads up with more copper chloride it works faster. Mine usually takes a couple days to remove all the foils.
Claudie! I have gloves, pulled them to help my son with how to take the pictures. should have put them on!
Be back to collect our foils!
artart47


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## Claudie (Feb 19, 2012)

Whew! 8) 
Sometimes a person doesn't notice the acid that get's on our finger tips until we rub an eye or pick a nose, or worse, go pee :shock:


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## artart47 (Feb 20, 2012)

yeah Claudie!
the smb nosepick was very unplesant when I first got into this!


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## artart47 (Mar 4, 2012)

Hi everyone! Sorry for the delay getting back, alot of work and truck repair to do.
Our bucket was outside in the extream cold. I agitated it couple times a day and had the air going. By the fourthday all the foils were off the fingers. I pushed the inner bucket down into the solution slowly and removed it quickly while agitating the foils with a plastic rod , multiple times in order to wash all the fiols thru the holes and into the outer bucket.
My next step was to pour the solution thru a plastic strainer with two coffee filters inside. The filters trap all the foils and I allways end up with a little dark powder That I will process right along with the foils
Next, I use a sprey bottle with distilled water to wash the contents of the filter into a glass baking dish untill the filter is clean. keep the filter for later! it has gold in it! I then can just pour and sprey-rinse the contents into a prepiared mason jar. When I say prepared.... Geo and other members told me I was having a problem with fine gold later sticking to the sides of my containers because the were dirty. So! I began scrubbing my glass with dish soap hot water and a plastic scrubby-pad. then a thurough rinse with hot water and because I don't even want lime spots when they dry, I sprey-bottle rinse with distilled water to wash all the tap water off. My gold no longer sticks.
Let's look at what we just did and why!
We chose to use ap ( acid peroxide) to recover the gold from the fingers. It was the best choice because of the simple construction of the fingers. There is gold and only one other base metal. if we dissolve that base our gold is free to be 
filtered out and collected. Our ap does that! . I see people who just want to dump everything into something that will dissolve the gold! 
That will only cause you problems later trying to get your gold back! You never want to dissolve the gold untill there are no other metals mixed with it
Gotta go be back to clean the foils and dissolve the gold!
artart47


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## butcher (Mar 4, 2012)

artart47, 
You look mesmerized by them thar gold flakes.

Nice job


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## Claudie (Mar 4, 2012)

The way that filter looks in the strainer, you may have splashed some values back into the bucket. Let it sit for a day or two and see what settles in the bottom. That dark powder is probably Gold also. Looks like you're doing a great job!


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## Geo (Mar 4, 2012)

Claudie said:


> The way that filter looks in the strainer, you may have splashed some values back into the bucket. Let it sit for a day or two and see what settles in the bottom. That dark powder is probably Gold also. Looks like you're doing a great job!



here! here! keep up the good work buddy. looks good to me. and i believe Claudie may be right about the over wash. i wouldn't be afraid to assume you may have more gold in your bucket.


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## artart47 (Mar 5, 2012)

Hey Guys!
Yep! MEZZZMURIZZED! Looking at what I can do!
I saw some of the foils go over the side, gonna filter it again. I wanna make sure I get it all for this batch so the noobs can seerealisticly what you can expect to recover from the starting fingers.
I can't thank you guys enough for coaching me along the way! I enjoy this so much and it feels great giving back!
artart47


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## artart47 (Mar 8, 2012)

Hey everyone!

I DID IT1!
MY FIRST BUTTON!
HA! HA! KID IN THE CANDY STORE!
This is a one post departure from the fingers we're doing!
In the wee-hours of the morning I snuck out to the garage, fired up my new torch and started heating my new Steve-melting dish as it glowed red I could barely keep from yelling with excitement and anticipation as I drizzled pinches of borax and watched it melt and coat the dish. When it was hot I stopped for a second and poured my twenty-one grams of refimed gold powder in and started the torch going around the rim of the dish. Guys I was shaking so worried that my gold would blow all over but finally the edges started to bead up and shine I got closer and the edges started melting.
Suddenly it was like the entire edge just sucked into the ceter and there it was! MY BUTTON! There was no slag or haze on top. It just sat there saying hold me!
Man I hope every noobs gets the rush I got when they see thier first gold

Thank you everyone from the forum for your help!!!!!!
Feels like when I became a dad!
I grabbed it with the pliers before the borax froze and dropped it in cold water, next time I'll wait a few seconds, had to hold it! Had a red spot in my hand
Below are the pics, I don't know why it has the color on the front picture. The entire button gleams and is shiny, no red color. The scale is zeroed with card and quarter. the button is 20-21 grams, it flips back and forth and the tenths aren't working I'm gonna find some one with a good camera and I'll post a good shot later!
artart47


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## maynman1751 (Mar 8, 2012)

Congrats dude! niiiice button!!!!! :mrgreen:


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## Claudie (Mar 8, 2012)

How did you manage to get 20-21 grams of Gold from that small batch of fingers? :|


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## butcher (Mar 9, 2012)

Yep! MEZZZMURIZZED! Looking at what you can do!
:lol:


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## artart47 (Mar 9, 2012)

Hey Claudie!
No, the button 21 grams is not from the small bach of fingers. It's from the origonal fingers and stuff I began when I first came here and started learning! (when I began this thread. It was like 15lbs of fingers, a little from AP'ing small cable ends, flash from some cell boards and processing thewaste bucket.
I was so excited finally holding my gold from all that early effort I had to post it! 
I put in the post that I was taking a "one post departure" from the finger project.
feels great
artart47


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## Claudie (Mar 9, 2012)

Ah, got my hopes all up thinking there may be 20 grams of Gold in a pound of fingers. This may take me a while to recoup from.  
All joking aside, it looks like you did a great job on that Gold. It always feels good to hold that Gold in your hand, knowing that you got it a spec at a time from junk other people throw away, but let it cool first! :shock:


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## artart47 (Mar 9, 2012)

For sure!


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## artart47 (Mar 9, 2012)

Hey everyone! 
Juat had the guy at the computer store take a better picture that you can actually see!


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## maynman1751 (Mar 9, 2012)

That's a $1000+ piece of shine you got there! Sweeet! :mrgreen:


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 9, 2012)

You can see the pipe in the picture, that speaks volumes. Good job.


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## Geo (Mar 9, 2012)

very nice. is that small drops of borax on the bottom? if it is, drop it in some diluted sulfuric acid and give it a quick boil. it will do nothing to the gold and wont dull the shine a bit but it will take off the excess borax.


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## artart47 (Mar 9, 2012)

Hey Geo!
Thanks everyone for the compliments! It's been along time comming . I can't stop this grin.
Yeah! there are a few beads of borax on the bottom. there are two holes on the bottom and the light from inside is like fire red! is that from the gold or is there something in there?
And, man! I can't thank everyone enough!
artart47


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## Geo (Mar 10, 2012)

nothing in there but more gold. the luster and the pipe is a good indicator of high purity gold.


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## Harold_V (Mar 10, 2012)

artart47 said:


> there are two holes on the bottom and the light from inside is like fire red! is that from the gold or is there something in there?


There's nothing quite as pretty as light bouncing from one gold surface to another. That's all you're seeing. The color is enhanced. 

Very well done, artart. 

Not being critical of your accomplishment, but the traces of borax indicate you had some copper present when you melted the gold. A little better washing might help in the future. 

One piece of advice I would like to offer when washing gold. * Do not wash by the clock*. The notion that you can wash for a given period of time is not true. Some batches will be well washed in a couple minutes, while others may require 15 minutes of hard boiling, and even that may not be totally effective. It is the washing process that will eliminate traces of unwanted base metals. When melting your gold, the flux coating in the dish, and any that may adhere to the button, should be absent of color. The only exception is if the color is purple or pink, obvious signs of colloidal gold. 

Harold


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## artart47 (Mar 10, 2012)

Hi Herold!
Thanks! You're right, I could increase the amount of time that it boils, they were short. From your experience, are there things you use to determine if it needs to boil longer or not?
Color... There is a purple stain in the borax coating of the melting dish ( dish is new) and the beads in the bottom of the gold have a bluish toward lavender color.
Thancks for everything, Herold.
artart47


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## kuma (Mar 10, 2012)

Hi Artart , how are tricks?
I hope you're well!
If I may , just to make a couple of things clear to any other *noobs reading this , :roll: 



artart47 said:


> The fingers are a fiberglass or resin board that has copper laid over it and the gold foils are plated onto the copper.



Even though it's probably not too too relevant , I feel the need to point out that Nickel was also present.
As you may already know but may have forgotten about , Nickel is present as a thin barrier to prevent gold from migrating into the copper surface underneath. 
I think it's worth knowing this as nickel can affect the colour of solutions , this could help in identifying base metal contaminants in solution.
For refference (Wiki) ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_chemicals#Ions_in_aqueous_solution 



artart47 said:


> There is gold and only one other base metal.



Gold is a _Noble Metal_ , and not a base metal.
I would like to finish by saying that your button is simply stunning , very nice work chief! 8) 
All the best for now , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## Harold_V (Mar 11, 2012)

artart47 said:


> Hi Herold!
> Thanks! You're right, I could increase the amount of time that it boils, they were short. From your experience, are there things you use to determine if it needs to boil longer or not?


Yes! Two things. The first one is the constantly darkening of the solution, along with the lightening color of the gold. (Typically the gold is quite dark after precipitation, and gets lighter in color as it is well washed). 

The other is how it clumps up, but that can be deceiving, too. I had batches that simply would not clump up, in spite of careful washing. They usually came from dirty solutions, and precipitated in *very* fine particles. Never when re-refining, however. 

When I had batches that were questionable, the final wash told the tale. Often, the second wash (ammonium hydroxide) would liberate substances that had refused to wash out. You could see a distinct color change in both the gold and the solution. The follow-up wash in HCl (the third wash) would yield a little color once again. If you have doubts, wash until the addition of a little HCl after the previous rinse (with water) doesn't result in a color change of the solution. Then, and only then, can you be assured that you have removed everything that can be washed out. If you wash by the clock, guaranteed, you won't achieve that goal in many cases. 

Note, too, that because nothing more washes out doesn't mean the gold is pure. It simply means that everything that is easy to remove has been removed. Often, when you re-dissolve the gold, you'll see contamination remaining in the barren solution (after precipitation). It is for that reason I started double refining all of my gold. The improvement in quality was quite noticeable. My gold would melt without oxides forming on the surface, so it remained bright when it cooled. If it does not, it's contaminated. 

Harold


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## artart47 (Jun 17, 2012)

Hi everyone!
Had one of those times where life just snows you under with work, things that must be done,responsibilities etc... There's five of us. They depend on me! I gotta make it happen! Not enough hours in the week! (swimming pool season) One of the jobs I do.
I'll be back soon! The foils are sitting in HCl on a shelf where they can watch Simpsons & Family Guy!
Just wanted to let everyone know I'm ok and miss being involved!
Later! My friends.
artart47


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## Geo (Jun 17, 2012)

hurry back. 8)


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