# Caution new members!



## TODDAZ (May 22, 2016)

Dear members & new members, 

This is Todd. I just wanted to drop a note telling everyone I'm still getting over being sick. I wanted to apologize for being quick tempered when members were warning me to slow down. As you know when I first became a member on the forum I had 20 different things going on at the same time and a lot of post before I checked the threads really well. I think a lot of new members make that mistake and when older members give advice or precautions on saftey it because they know either by experience. I made a comment about "tasting gold" on a thread I posted with just water and scrap in a jar but I got upset when members told me that wasn't a good comment. For that I'm sorry. The older members know from experiance and being new I should have respected that. I also should have checked the thread because I could have stopped it before it got out of hand. I meant it in a joking way, also metiforically like "I can taste the gold now, or "I can smell the money!" when members said someone could take that as a step in the process I thought it was far fetched but maybe not. I will tell you why. 
When I first came to the forum it was through a search engine asking a question on how to process silver ore. I saw a answer for that question and a kid was going to use the parks process on some ore from his grandfathers mine. Someone answered him and stated first crush it then roast it. He also said if it turns yellow watch out you will be glowing in the morning. I thought it was a joke glowing. So alI week I was crushing and roasting when people told me wait, get a assay so we know what's in it first. By the time I got any information on the ore it was too late and got arsenic poisoning. I heated the ore while looking over it, up close for 45 minutes sometimes with no mask. Even worse I did it late at night in the dark and couldn't see the wind or fumes. The next morning I couldn't open my eyes up, the light was so intense it made me dizzy. My stomach was upset, my muscles cramping and lethargic. I knew I had to go to the hospital. I did and I was told it was arsenic poising after they ran some test and I told them it might be from that. I was on dialysis, multiple other treatments and I still don't feel like getting out of bed and it's been over a month. 
When I do go back to mining (if ever now) I learned to take it slow! I will listen to others and saftey. It's not a joke and using these acids and methods in here you will get injured if not done correctly. I may never go back to mining now and not by choice! I hope my body kicks back in soon. So if your new slow down, learn it right and don't argue, but ask for clarification if you don't agree or understand why. I saw a question on Mercury here tonight and someone kept going on about it for days after members said don't use it. So I felt halfway good enough and the need to write a letter tonight about my experience hoping it will prevent the same mistake by a new member wanting to experiment without proper stuff. 
Thanks, Todd.


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## Anonymous (May 22, 2016)

My father always told me that it takes a real man to acknowledge their mistakes and say sorry.

You get my vote simply for that.

Jon


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## solar_plasma (May 22, 2016)

spaceships said:


> My father always told me that it takes a real man to acknowledge their mistakes and say sorry.
> 
> You get my vote simply for that.
> 
> Jon




Just what I thought when I read his post. 

Didn't we have a thread where people posted their first hand experiences about safety? This one would be another pearl in that collection.


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 22, 2016)

So sorry to hear you have gotten sick from doing this. Hope you get better soon.


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## TODDAZ (May 22, 2016)

Well thanks for accepting my apology. I didn't know if you would. I can step back and see how rediculios I must have sounded. Yeah gold fever is real. Never thought in as many years with placer gold I would get it. I'm still hanging on everyday hoping this won't last much longer, it's horrible. I read a thread about a experianced member named iron side from a thread and something along the lines of you guys haven't seen him. I think Harold said he got sick from same thing. Thank you for letting me back in the forum moderators, because I do like the reading. However everything is on complete hold, I can't stress enough saftey for new people and using proper glassware, chemicals and fume hoods when you say things are toxic. Ok that's about all I can write for a while. I get winded just walking to the truck right now. Happy refining guys. Todd


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## Anonymous (May 22, 2016)

Neither Barren or myself have any say in whether your apology is accepted by the forum moderation team. We are merely members expressing our opinions my friend. 

I'm glad you have learned from your mistakes both in the mine/lab and on the forum for what it's worth. 

Jon


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## nickvc (May 22, 2016)

Well done Todd for manning up.
I'm sorry to hear that you are ill as its not the intention of any of the members here to encourage people to hurt themselves but sometimes people won't listen, we all deal with and use some very very dangerous chemicals and with ores you never know what's in the mix until a full assay has been done which is why we try to encourage members to use caution until the assay confirms which elements are present.
As I stated earlier I'm sorry your ill but perhaps this will be a salutary lesson for those that follow you and save others from making the same mistakes, I hope you recover and make that mining dream come true, keep us updated if you decide to continue.


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## acpeacemaker (May 22, 2016)

Sorry to hear it. Wish you the best of luck. 

Working with a lot of old timers here in Cripple Creek and Victor in the mines. There used to be an old wives tale about cyanide and and arsenic poisoning up here in the mountains. Not a lot of newer people ever heard of it but the older generation always laughed and joked about it. Pickled pigs feet. 
Your situation is obviously by far funny. Hope you get well soon friend.

Andrew


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## maynman1751 (May 22, 2016)

Wishing you the best and hoping that you gain full recovery from your 'mishap'. Thank You for your honest omission.


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## Anonymous (May 22, 2016)

maynman1751 said:


> Wishing you the best and hoping that you gain full recovery from your 'mishap'. Thank You for your honest omission.



Did you perhaps mean "admission?" 8) 

Jon


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## NobleMetalWorks (May 22, 2016)

I'm impressed,

It's not often that someone expresses themselves in such an honorable way. Very rare in this day and age it seems. Posting this could not have been easy, to be sure it must have been very difficult. But I hope you see this as some of us do, not as depreciating but instead as you standing up after falling down, and being in what my estimation a good example of what it means to be a man, or if it was a woman the same.

Your story is concerning, as the world needs more men, and women like yourself I hope you pull through and make a full recovery. This experience, while very dangerous and hopefully those who follow will avoid the same mistakes, will change your own life forever. You are fortunate in both that you seem to be making a recovery, and to have learned this lesson even though you learned it through a mistake. You have effectively turned your bad experience into knowledge and have then chosen to express it publicly. I can only hope you regain your health, but as well that if something similar happens with me that I will have the same strong constitution and choose to stand up in the honorable way that you have.

It does my heart well to know that there still exists people who can make mistakes, grow and become a better person for them. I congratulate you sir on this point. I hope health returns to you soon, and wish you the very best that lady luck might offer.

Scott


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## g_axelsson (May 22, 2016)

Without checking the logs and that old thread I think it was me that said we don't joke about tasting solutions.
With more than 36000 members and right now anonymous guests outnumbers registered readers by more than 3 to 1 we have a lot of people that reads the threads. If one in 10.000 persons think it is okay to taste solutions (it is not!) then a simple joke can turn into an accident really easy.

One example of that is the guy reading about urea removing nitric acid and started to pee in the beaker. :shock: 

Never underestimate the stupidity of people!

Todd, I accept your apology and I hope you get well soon. Don't give up on refining as it could be both a rewarding hobby and a profitable occupation. But I hope you will get an assay before any more experimenting with ores.

I might have been the one pushing the ban button, don't remember if I did. I'm not going to do it now unless you step out of line again.

As for me, your apology is accepted! Welcome back!

Happy reading!

Göran


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## Smack (May 22, 2016)

Faced with adversity such as this, you'll be a better man for it. After you heal of course. Good luck in the future.


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## maynman1751 (May 23, 2016)

spaceships said:


> maynman1751 said:
> 
> 
> > Wishing you the best and hoping that you gain full recovery from your 'mishap'. Thank You for your honest omission.
> ...


Yes I did!!!!! Thanks Jon! :lol:


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## kurtak (May 23, 2016)

I am on board with what the other members have said --- so very VERY sorry to hear of your miss hap - but THANK you for coming forward to tell of it for in doing so who knows how many you may have just saved from the same kind of fate

This (IMO) took a real man to own up to & my hat is of to you (as a salute) 

I really do hope that you come through this & that your health improves to a point that you are able to again enjoy a normal life

Kurt


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## Geo (May 26, 2016)

We are all in this together. Something that effects one of us effects us all. Without honest discourse, we would be an island unto ourselves. I appreciate you coming forward with your warning. 

I hope you mend and get well soon.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 26, 2016)

Geo said:


> We are all in this together. Something that effects one of us effects us all. Without honest discourse, we would be an island unto ourselves. I appreciate you coming forward with your warning.
> 
> I hope you mend and get well soon.



Truer words could not be spoken. They say that pride comes before the fall.. and that it takes a big man to swallow his pride and admit his err's.

I hope you get well soon. This is a great hobby/discipline/field of study. But, everything we do and use in the trade, must be treated with respect.

I don't pray, but I am wishing you well.

-topher


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## Anonymous (May 26, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> I don't pray, but I am wishing you well.
> 
> -topher



Haha me neither. I gave up with imaginary friends when I was but a mere boy. 8) 8)


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## Refining Rick (May 26, 2016)

Well, I do pray. Often and with passion. I will pray for you Todd. God speed on your recovery.

Please. Lets not slide into insulting others beliefs. My God is far from imaginary to me.

Rick


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## Anonymous (May 26, 2016)

I was making an observation, and I don't recall you commenting on this thread Rick until now unless I'm mistaken? You're entitled to you opinions as am I. Let's leave it at that.


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## FrugalRefiner (May 26, 2016)

And this is why we don't allow discussions of religion on the forum. Let's get back to recovery and refining please.

Dave


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## Anonymous (May 27, 2016)

Roger that Dave. Message received and understood.


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## Harold_V (May 29, 2016)

Refining Rick said:


> Well, I do pray. Often and with passion. I will pray for you Todd. God speed on your recovery.
> 
> Please. Lets not slide into insulting others beliefs. My God is far from imaginary to me.
> 
> Rick


While you have every right to believe as you wish, there's a very good reason why *RELIGION* has no place on this board. It is highly controversial and divisive, and is often offensive to those who have totally different beliefs. We are seeing ample evidence of this, today, in world affairs. 

In general, people do not enjoy hearing the unfounded beliefs of others, which is often the cause of considerable dissension. That, needless to say, has a way of disrupting the board, taking energy away from its intended purpose. 

You can easily avoid being the recipient of comments you find unkind by not making mention of your religious views. I highly recommend that in the future you observe that level of behavior. If you wish to pray, do it privately, without making mention to others. 

Harold


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## Harold_V (May 31, 2016)

Note that spaceships membership on this board has been withdrawn. He has a history of repeatedly being disruptive and failing to observe board rules. That won't be tolerated. If he returns, and I expect he will, he will be, once again, deleted from the board. If he persists, a report will be placed with his ISP. 

Membership on this board is not a right--it's a privilege, granted to those who agree to observe the rules set forth by administration. 

Harold


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## nickvc (Jun 18, 2016)

Harold you know I respect you and your views but I find that this decision on banning Spaceships a little difficult to understand, I admit I know him personally and he can be a little headstrong but his knowledge of e scrap and values of the same were of outstanding value to the majority of members of the forum who work on this type of material, never been my strong point unless in big volumes, and he tried to pass on his hard earned knowledge much the same as you did when the forum was a little smaller and with many fewer members.
I am not trying to cause ripples or trouble but if spaceships was banned why not the others who made similar quasi religious remarks, I follow no religion but believe it is up to everyone to follow their own god and religion but not to force it on others and I'm happy not to cause problems over others views or beliefs, that was why the no religion , politics rules were sensibly put in place.
As you know I'm aware of incidents elsewhere which recieved in my opinion the correct action but this seems a little unfair, we need discipline and rules but also flexibility that allow odd strays from the right path to be tolerated, maybe a warning or comment from a mod by PM, but banning seems a little harsh for an off the cuff comment with no malice intended.
If I'm wrong in my views I will happily accept your decision but some clarity about this may set the record straight not just for me but others who may feel the same, it cannot be one rule for one and a different rule for others, we are a brotherhood of scientists against a very hostile outside world who would love to see us forced to cease our activities as we mess with dangerous chemicals and toxic wastes.
The bottom line, we stand or fall together, we need to be united and scientific, we need clear guidance and leadership, we don't need disunity or squabbles ruining this forum, we have to move forward and that means e scrap for most members or visitors as they can get it free or cheaply, with spaceships gone one of our most knowledgable members, who shares, is missing, I can see no logic in this decision for the forum as a whole.


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## Geo (Jun 18, 2016)

I am not speaking for Harold and am speaking only for myself. I like Jon, I really do. People have to know where the boundaries are to function in polite society. Jon does not have anger issues, he has boundary issues. He's passionate about things and it gets him into trouble because he doesn't know when to stop for his own good. The police will let you collect many speeding tickets but eventually, they will revoke your licences to drive. If it were one thing with a space of time before the next thing, it may not seem so bad. When Jon gets something in his mind, he will doggedly not give up on it.


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## galenrog (Jun 18, 2016)

I will not get involved in the issue regarding Spaceships. I would, however, like to know what has happened to Todd. If he posted something after 22 May and I missed it, I am sorry.

Past time for coffee.


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## Smack (Jun 19, 2016)

A little disheartening, I hope he's ok.


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## Platdigger (Jun 19, 2016)

Yes, I see it says the last time he visited here was May the 22nd. The day he started this thread.
I hope he made it.


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## patnor1011 (Jun 19, 2016)

Nick you said it in a way I would not be able to due to poor command of english. I am torn as Harold is a dear friend of mine, somebody I do hold in special place in my heart but somehow I feel that Jon should get chance to come back. He was not as disruptive as other people who got banned, I mean that he is now in the same category as people who were outright disruptive like dr whose name better not to be mentioned & co.


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## justinhcase (Jun 19, 2016)

I have noted that the amount of Sniping has been greatly reduced over the past few week's
I fully back Harold's decision and think the board exhibits less hostile behaviour as a hole.
Some time's people can not avoid friction as it is in there nature and they do very well at the expense of others.
In a garden you can not let one plant over shadow others with less aggressive tendency's.


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## kurtak (Jun 20, 2016)

nickvc said:


> Harold you know I respect you and your views but I find that this decision on banning Spaceships a little difficult to understand, I admit I know him personally and he can be a little headstrong but his knowledge of e scrap and values of the same were of outstanding value to the majority of members of the forum who work on this type of material, never been my strong point unless in big volumes, and he tried to pass on his hard earned knowledge much the same as you did when the forum was a little smaller and with many fewer members.
> I am not trying to cause ripples or trouble but if spaceships was banned why not the others who made similar quasi religious remarks, I follow no religion but believe it is up to everyone to follow their own god and religion but not to force it on others and I'm happy not to cause problems over others views or beliefs, that was why the no religion , politics rules were sensibly put in place.
> As you know I'm aware of incidents elsewhere which recieved in my opinion the correct action but this seems a little unfair, we need discipline and rules but also flexibility that allow odd strays from the right path to be tolerated, maybe a warning or comment from a mod by PM, but banning seems a little harsh for an off the cuff comment with no malice intended.
> If I'm wrong in my views I will happily accept your decision but some clarity about this may set the record straight not just for me but others who may feel the same, it cannot be one rule for one and a different rule for others, we are a brotherhood of scientists against a very hostile outside world who would love to see us forced to cease our activities as we mess with dangerous chemicals and toxic wastes.
> The bottom line, we stand or fall together, we need to be united and scientific, we need clear guidance and leadership, we don't need disunity or squabbles ruining this forum, we have to move forward and that means e scrap for most members or visitors as they can get it free or cheaply, with spaceships gone one of our most knowledgable members, who shares, is missing, I can see no logic in this decision for the forum as a whole.



Nick 

Thank you for posting this & I agree with each point I underlined in your above post - this banning of Jon has been bothering me from the moment I saw it had happened & I have been trying to figure out how to address it with out causing conflict here on the open forum 

I have been a member of this forum for going well onto 6 years now & in that time I have watched Harold ban a lot of people & I have agreed - completely - with each & every one of those banning's because (1) the member was in "clear" violation of forum rules & (2) the member was given fair warning - in the thread of the violation - thereby giving the member opportunity to apologize &/or get back in line --- the banning then ONLY took place if the member persisted down the path causing disruption that brought on the need for a warning in the first place (& for that matter it gave other members opportunity to weigh in on the issue)

Nether of these things took place with this banning (of Jon) & as a result it is my opinion that this banning is wrong --- flat out wrong --- which I have in fact discussed privately with a couple of the moderators & a few other of our long term active contributing members

Harold --- I need you to know that my opinion of your banning of Jon is flat out wrong has nothing to do with my taking a side in what I know is a personal conflict between you & Jon

Though it is true that I like Jon & even consider him a friend - if it was a question of choosing a side based on who I consider a greater friend - I would without question have to side with you --- & that is because "in large part" I OWE much of my knowledge & success in the field of refining to all the help you personally gave back when I first joined this forum --- & I have told Jon as much & that I would not allow the personal conflict between the two of you be a deciding factor in my own choice to consider each of you as a friend 

With that said - my opinion that this banning is wrong is based on nothing other then the two above mentioned points

This "off the cuff" comment made by Jon - used as a reason for banning him


> Haha me neither. I gave up with imaginary friends when I was but a mere boy



is weak at best - very weak --- it is weak because off the cuff remarks like this are made all the time here on the forum (whether religious or other wise) & they never lead to the outright banning of a member - especially if/when made by a long standing active "contributing" member !

They only become a problem if they continue down a path of a back & forth continuing comments that becomes disruptive which is ALWAYS then dealt with by a warning from a moderator asking the involved members to chill out --- banning then ONLY happens when the involved member(s) persist down the path ignoring the warning

In fact - I can post links to a fair number of threads where comments like this have resulted in conflicting disruptive activity - wherein "more then one" moderator has had to step in & ask that the involved members chill out - AND - when the members "did not" heed the warning & persisted in the conflict - it resulted in the thread being locked - AND - no one got banned --- this has happened often enough that I should not have to post links - but will if need be

In this situation - "after" Jon posted his off the cuff remark - Refining Rick actually posted a reply that could have lead to an on going disruption &/or conflict - but the fact is that Jon actually put an and to it when he posted


> I was making an observation, and I don't recall you commenting on this thread Rick until now unless I'm mistaken? You're entitled to you opinions as am I. Let's leave it at that.



So Jon actually policed the situation in the best interest of the forum before it became a matter of disruptive conflict

Dave - as a moderator - then issued a warning (which wasn't even really needed - as Jon had already said "lets leave it at that") to which Jon replied


> Roger that Dave. Message received and understood.



So - as much as I can agree that "in the past" - Jon has pushed the envelope concerning conduct (as have others) this comment of his just flat out was NOT reason for banning him - or - at best was weak --- VERY weak --- especially when you take into consideration the contributions he has made to this forum as an "active contributing" member

So - like Nick, Pat & others I have discussed this with privately (I will leave it up to them to voice it here) I agree --- this banning needs to be further reconsidered as to whether this banning should stand as is - or - be reversed to allow Jon back

Kurt


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## kurtak (Jun 20, 2016)

Geo said:


> I am not speaking for Harold and am speaking only for myself. I like Jon, I really do. People have to know where the boundaries are to function in polite society. Jon does not have anger issues, he has boundary issues. He's passionate about things and it gets him into trouble because he doesn't know when to stop for his own good. The police will let you collect many speeding tickets but eventually, they will revoke your licences to drive. If it were one thing with a space of time before the next thing, it may not seem so bad. When Jon gets something in his mind, he will doggedly not give up on it.



Geo

I fully agree with you (as underlined above) & as we know Jon pushed that very envelope over on Kens forum (RPM) which resulted in your needing to ban him there - which I agree with completely - Jon stepped over the line on Kens forum - way over the line & he got what he disserved as a result

However - as a member of both forums - I can not in any way see where that conflict has bled over onto this forum & what took place on the RPM forum should have absolutely no bearing on the standing of a member here on this forum

Granted - Jon may make off the cuff remarks here - but such remarks are made "all the time" by other longstanding "active contributing" members here without it resulting in banning

In fact - as I pointed out in my last reply - I can post links to a good many threads where such remarks lead to disruptive conflict such that more then one moderator had to step in & ask that the involved members chill out - & when they didn't - the thread had to be locked to bring it to an end --- I am talking about threads where no one got banned

The reason for this is because the contributions - as active members - is taken into consideration - in other words the invested interest they have contributed to the building of this forum has earned them a bit more latitude then new members that come here thinking they can insist on their own self important attitude of entitlement & demand it in a rude manner

In no way am I defending Jon &/or the sometimes off the cuff remarks he makes - all I am saying is that if the remark Jon made was reason for banning him --- then there are many other members (& I believe I can include myself in this) that should have been banned - long before now

Kurt


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## kurtak (Jun 20, 2016)

justinhcase said:


> I have noted that the amount of Sniping has been greatly reduced over the past few week's
> I fully back Harold's decision and think the board exhibits less hostile behaviour as a hole.
> Some time's people can not avoid friction as it is in there nature and they do very well at the expense of others.
> In a garden you can not let one plant over shadow others with less aggressive tendency's.



Not really true Justin - whether intended - or not - we see a bit of "Sniping" here in this thread :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=23963#p253389

enough so (that whether intended - or not) Jerry (whether right or wrong in his conclusion) felt he needed to make this post :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=23963&start=60#p254349

Kurt


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## g_axelsson (Jun 20, 2016)

This forum is *not* an isolated place on the net, what we do on other sites and in real life can and will have consequences of how he are seen here. If I scam people on eBay it will come back and hit my reputation here. Should we allow scammers here just because they haven't scammed anyone on the forum?

Banning is a blunt tool that is used both to punish members that doesn't behave but it is also used in preventive ways to keep those that we don't want here, like scammers and spammers.

What Jon did on Ken's forum resulted in a ban there and if I was in Harold's place I would have done the same. To say that we should totally ignore that incident is in my view stupid, because it showed a side of Jon that we don't want to have here on this forum. Once you have shown your true color you will have to behave better than most to remain a member.

To my knowledge Jon has been warned several times over his behavior here, some of it before I became one of the moderators.

Göran


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## Platdigger (Jun 20, 2016)

You know, if you guys want to challenge Harolds' decisions, that's up to you. But just stop and think for a minute what this forum would be like if "He" Harold were to quit.
I mean he has stated before that he has nothing to gain by being here.
And these other forums I hear made mention of now and then, I am sure can not even begin to compare to the success this forum has enjoyed.


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## Smack (Jun 20, 2016)

As long as there are humans involved in the governing of what other humans do, no matter what it may be, there will be inconsistency. Fact of life on planet Earth. It's how we deal with it that counts.


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## Harold_V (Jun 22, 2016)

nickvc said:


> As you know I'm aware of incidents elsewhere which recieved in my opinion the correct action but this seems a little unfair, we need discipline and rules but also flexibility that allow odd strays from the right path to be tolerated, maybe a warning or comment from a mod by PM, but banning seems a little harsh for an off the cuff comment with no malice intended.


Thanks for sharing your views, Nick. 

It's simple, folks. I had several exchanges with that individual over the course of time. His response to me was that I was bullying---that I had no right to reign in those who refused to abide by the rules of the board---a fact reflected in his previous sig line. In his world, it's a badge of honor to be disrespectful, to ignore rules with which he might not agree. Unfortunately, this board ISN'T his world. In other words, when I tried to resolve issues (privately), I was, for lack of a better description, given the finger. He refused to heel, and he refused to live up to a commitment he made to another of the moderators, that he would abide by the rules of the board. He clearly was unable, and proved it time and again. 

I am sick to death of hearing how much this guy contributed. I don't give a rats butt how much a guy contributes--when he is disorderly, refuses to abide by the simple rules we have, insults and otherwise directs readers, well beyond his level of authority, he needs to be reprimanded. If, in his mind, the required reprimand is bullying, he clearly is not of the quality that is expected of readers here. The only recourse is to remove him from the board. That's precisely what I did, and it's precisely what needed to be done. 

I made it known, long ago, that this individual was the cause of my first absence from the board. He had a way of keeping things on the edge---with the accompanying acrimony---and I made the mistake (BIG MISTAKE) of not banning him when I should have, the result of my thinking that he was contributing, and, maybe, that would be a bit harsh. Turns out it would have been the best thing I could have done, and it SHOULD have been done. I apologize to each and every reader for that, and I won't let it happen again. 

I want to make one thing perfectly clear. I do NOT regret removing him from the board, and would do the same thing again, TODAY. I would also file a complaint with his ISP, ensuring that he was put to some level of inconvenience. I will not have an individual come to this board and disrupt it as he did. I have an obligation to Noxx to keep this board running smoothly---an obligation I take very seriously. Until such time that I leave willingly, or that I am relieved of my position, those who prefer the fight to proper behavior have much to fear from me, as I won't tolerate individuals who can't, or won't, behave. I am not the least bit concerned with what they may have contributed. That doesn't buy ANYONE the right to misbehave. 

Kurtak----I appreciate your thoughts, too, but in this case, I didn't make a mistake. I'd ban him again, in a heart beat, as he was warned by me in my second to last communication with him that the slightest misstep would be his last. He knew the price he'd pay, but he didn't think it would happen. I am a man of my word. If I pledge to ban someone, barring a good reason, he WILL be banned if he screws up. He did. 

Göran

Thank you, sir! My hat is off to you for your incredible ability to see things as they are. You have earned my undying respect. 

To all: Let this be a learning experience. This board does not, and will not, play favorites. In order to remain here, each reader will abide by the rules. This isn't a "good ol' boy" network, whereby some folks can get away with things, while others can't. The rules apply to everyone. 

Harold

Edit:

One person, alone, will allow jon back on this board, and that person is Noxx. I will personally remove him time and again unless I am told otherwise by the boss.


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## Harold_V (Jun 22, 2016)

kurtak said:


> Harold --- I need you to know that my opinion of your banning of Jon is flat out wrong has nothing to do with my taking a side in what I know is a personal conflict between you & Jon


The only conflict between jon and me is that he refused to behave. He was NOT blindsided. I contacted him, offering him the opportunity to explain why he shouldn't be banned. What I got in return was a smart comment about how it might make me happy. He showed no sign of remorse, nor has he ever shown any sign of willingness to cooperate with the rules of the board. To him, anything he wished to say was appropriate, and he made it clear that it was his right to voice his opinions as he saw fit. *He had previously been forewarned that the next misstep would be his last. He thought that was a joke. It wasn't. If a reader hopes to get on my bad side, make light of my suggestion to behave. That will do it every time. 
*

Harold


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## solar_plasma (Jun 25, 2016)

I only know a part of the story, but I know enough to have an opinion.

I liked Jon and until now I still do despite of his rebelious tendencies ("of all the spirits that deny, the scoffer is the least offensive to me", J.W.v.Goethe lets the Lord say in "Faust I")

BUT on a ship there is only ONE captain, who is responsible to keep the ship sailing, and that captain IS represented by the moderators. Jon did know this. He knew that he would be banned. He hazarded the consequences, while choosing his concept of honor, he sacrificed consciously his memberships for his convictions. I respect this. No need to regret anything on any side.

Harold did well and he deserves my loyalty just as this forum does. Saying so openly, is my concept of honor.


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## artart47 (Jun 26, 2016)

Hi my Friends!
In my opinion, If Harold makes a decision and takes an action like this, one knows that he has all the facts and has thoroughly thought thru his decision. His action is only for what's best for our forum.
Art


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## Harold_V (Jun 26, 2016)

artart47 said:


> Hi my Friends!
> In my opinion, If Harold makes a decision and takes an action like this, one knows that he has all the facts and has thoroughly thought thru his decision. His action is only for what's best for our forum.
> Art


Thanks for your support, guys. 
Yes, in spite of appearances, my actions were based on what's best for the board. 

I don't mind stating that I've taken considerable flack for my actions---and not just from readers. Some of the moderators have voiced their disapproval---which leads me to question their motive. Needless to say, in some cases, I now have a completely different opinion of them. Nothing will destroy the integrity of a board faster than select readers failing to observe the rules, with little to no action being taken by those who should be in charge. It leads to the appearance of a "good ol' boy" network, which is certainly not the case, nor is it going to be. 

Once a reader has been put on notice in regards to behavior, there should not be second, third and fourth chances, nor should ANY reader be granted slack because of their contributions. We have a large number of readers who contribute nicely, and observe our rules. To allow a few to not do so is a disservice to those individuals. I personally won't tolerate that kind of behavior, and fully expect moderators to react in kind. If they do not, why are they here? 

My opinion. If a moderator fails to uphold the board rules, taking what ever action may be required to do so, he should be relieved of his position. A moderator should NEVER be a part of the problem. 

Harold


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## solar_plasma (Jun 26, 2016)

solar_plasma said:


> he sacrificed consciously his memberships for his convictions. I respect this. No need to regret anything on any side.



Both Harold and Jon acted honorable. I feel the need to underline this as long as I think I hear some undertones in some posts in one or the other direction. I only know Jon as a honorable former member, who stands to his conviction, but sometimes you have to set priorities. Jon did, Harold did and that's ok. No reason for whining or applause, things are just like things are.


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## galenrog (Jul 4, 2016)

Getting back to Todd, has anyone heard anything since his last post? Alive and still recovering from arsenic poisoning, or has he succumbed?

Should he still be among the living, I wish he and his family well. If not, I still wish his family well.


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## Smack (Jul 4, 2016)

Well I can say his absence is not a good sign. If he were on the mend I'm sure he would have let us know.


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## patnor1011 (Jul 5, 2016)

Lets just assume he lost interest and moved on to pursue another hobby. Probably the best scenario.


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## justinhcase (Jul 5, 2016)

When we digest a meal it falls into one of two categories water soluble and fat soluble,The toxins that can pass out easily in urine are quite short term , but the nutritional and toxic fats are shuffled through the stomach into the small intestine where bile secreted from the liver and gallbladder emulsifies them. In the small intestine, there are millions of small villi and lacteals, which are little finger-like “grasses,” or mucus membranes, that sweep the gut and help absorb nutritional fats and send the toxic fats on to the liver for processing. If this detoxification pathway is not properly working, the body can store the toxic fats, rather than remove them.
recovery is not guaranteed and he is very lightly to have bouts of extremely bad health as every system is adversely affected.
So people die years later when they metabolise a fatty deposit laid down in the initial poisoning.


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## Noxx (Jul 5, 2016)

This thread brought some turmoil on the forum and I want to clarify a few things:

-Spaceships' removal was based on more than just the comment he made in the Caution thread, including other posts and not keeping his commitment to several moderators.
-We took a vote and a majority of the moderators support his removal.

Now, I truly hope that Todd is fine and lets wish him well.

Locking this thread now.


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