# First time processing mmx black fibre



## archeonist (Dec 5, 2016)

Today started with processing black fibre cpu's. After I removed the epoxy and caps, I will give them a soak in HCl. I guess the pins will fall off, so I can process them separately. The rest of the chips go straight into AR. 
I will keep you guys informed about the progress.


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## g_axelsson (Dec 5, 2016)

Straight into AR or incinerated first to recover bond wires inside the epoxy?

Göran


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## archeonist (Dec 5, 2016)

Goran, the black epoxy centers I smashed out I will incinerate along with a bunch of flatpacks.


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## archeonist (Dec 5, 2016)

Soaking now in hydrochloric, no heat yet, a lot of H2 formation so solder is going into solution.


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## archeonist (Dec 5, 2016)

Solution turning green, indication Ni in solution, pins are falling off.... Uhm, well hopefully they fall off soon :?


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## archeonist (Dec 5, 2016)

Hmm.., now this is strange, why do most of my pins have a copperish color? I boiled in HCl for a few hours, only a few pins had come off. Is it ok to go to AR with the pins? 
Also the top epoxy layer is coming off. Revealing copper plating underneath, that I did not want to happen.. more basemetal will go in solution..

In the picture the cpu are soaked in fresh tap water.


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## archeonist (Dec 5, 2016)

Here you see what I mean. I can scratch the top epoxy layer off revealing copper underneath. Did not want that :evil:


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## g_axelsson (Dec 5, 2016)

Firstly, you should use some thermal buffer between your hotplate and the beaker, for example sand, to avoid creating thermal stress that can break your beaker.
Secondly a catch basin below is good to have when a beaker breaks. Maybe you have that but I couldn't see it on the pictures.

You obviously have dissolved some copper, creating a weak copper chloride leach. Some of the copper have cemented out on the kovar pins and you see that as a pink copper coating.
The pins will not fall off until the pins are totally dissolved through, they sit in a hole going through the fiber board and not flat on the bottom as later chips have.

It looks like the copper chloride have penetrated under the top solder mask, not much to do about it I guess.

Göran


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## archeonist (Dec 5, 2016)

Goran, I do use a thermal buffer and catch bassin. For the picture I just shot the glass on a hotplate. 
What should I do? Carry on dissolve pins untill they fall off, or throw everything in AR?

I agree copper has cemented out on the pins. The kovar is now in contact with the acid. Copper ions are reduced on the surface of the gold pins to copper atoms. The electrons are delivered by the kovar that is going into solution, for instance iron or nickel.


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## Tzoax (Dec 5, 2016)

I have sucessfuly processed Black MMX processors this way:
- removing copper hearsinks, all SMD components and black chips which I processed like all the other IC chips
-simmer boiling in a 16-18% HCl for about 2 hours, all of the tin dissolved.
- decanting tin bearing HCl solution, washed beaker with water several times
-Added fresh HCl and adding KNO3 until all of the metals dissolves.
-watch out, when the reaction is nearly ended it will be vigorous reaction, you will need much bigger beaker filled maximum to 1/3 of the volume.
-after that, regular denoxing, filtering and gold dropping

I had some losses when processing these, but even with the losses I had 1.5g of gold per kg or 0.03 per piece of this kind of processors, including black chips with dies. 

I hope this helped a bit.


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## patnor1011 (Dec 5, 2016)

I did them in straight AR, no HCl before. Cores incinerated and crushed then AR too. Pretty fast but as others said be aware that they tend to foam in hot AR so use big beaker.


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## Romix (Jan 13, 2017)

Can't get pins off on this.


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## g_axelsson (Jan 13, 2017)

Romix said:


> Can't get pins off on this.


How did you try to remove them?

Göran


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## Romix (Jan 13, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> Romix said:
> 
> 
> > Can't get pins off on this.
> ...



Heating with lighter, that goes to the temperature of gold melting point. 
Cpu began to melt, but pins didn't came off.


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## g_axelsson (Jan 13, 2017)

If you read my description of the construction of these CPU:s above you will understand why the pins doesn't fall off.

My guess is that a third of the gold is contained in the pins that sticks out, a third is dissolved in the solder that holds the pins and a third is in the bond wires inside the epoxy. I suspected that there could be some gold dissolved in the solder that holds the heat spreader, but so far that part seems to be very low in gold content.

Göran


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## g_axelsson (Jan 13, 2017)

Tzoax said:


> I have sucessfuly processed Black MMX processors this way:
> - removing copper hearsinks, all SMD components and black chips which I processed like all the other IC chips
> -simmer boiling in a 16-18% HCl for about 2 hours, all of the tin dissolved.
> - decanting tin bearing HCl solution, washed beaker with water several times
> ...


Did you wash away the black sludge that is produced when the tin dissolves? It contains gold.

I have only done one test run to refine a kilo (53 CPU:s) and I have so far recovered 3.3g. I think I have a few tenth of a gram left to recover, judging from the color of the second leach of the solids. I'm doing a second leach since I suspect that I ran out of nitric, newbie mistake, adding too little nitric acid. :mrgreen: 

I also have to recover the gold from the dilute washing water I used on the CPU:s after dissolving the pins. The water was turbid even after filtering, but after standing for a while a fine black sediment appeared at the bottom of the beaker.

Göran


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jan 13, 2017)

:lol: 
Newbies add too much nitric, and now newbies can add too little.... Whats a newbie to do?!?
:lol: 
I'd rather be the underestimating newbie than the overdosing one though... I loath getting rid of excess nitric, and it's such a shame to waste such expensive acid!


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## g_axelsson (Jan 13, 2017)

Yeah, I was so surprised when the sulfamic didn't react and then the gold dropped with SMB really nice....
... my bad.

:mrgreen: 

I was going to do a second leach anyhow, just to verify that I had gotten all the gold. Looks like I missed a minor part. Leaching as we are speaking.  

Göran


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## anachronism (Jan 13, 2017)

I'm watching this with interest Goran because I've been saving these up for a long time.


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## Tzoax (Jan 13, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> Tzoax said:
> 
> 
> > I have sucessfuly processed Black MMX processors this way:
> ...



I heated the beaker with water to about 70 degrees Celsius. The solution had milky white color. I mixed the solution, watching sediment forming. After about 10 seconds all of the sediment appeared to be settled. I decanted it, and repeated this step 2 more times. At final washing water was clear. 

So i am not sure if i decanted some of the gold if it was there, it all depences how small (light) particles of gold was there(if any).


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## silversaddle1 (Jan 13, 2017)

I have a couple hundred of these as well so I'm watching too!


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## patnor1011 (Jan 13, 2017)

These fetch 70-75 euro for kilogram. While I can not offer any numbers I can say that yield over 3g is pretty reasonable expectation. I used to cut them in 4 pieces with tin snips as it allowed me to add them slowly one piece by another to hot AR. Never do many at the same time they foam like crazy. 
I have lost email with details where I was processing small batch I have just few pictures left.


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## g_axelsson (Feb 4, 2017)

My final tally is in, I didn't recover a lot gold in the second leach, only a tenth of a gram. I also found some silver.

One kilo, 53 CPU:s with s-code SL27J gave 3.4g gold and about 1g of silver. The lids gave 260 grams of copper.

There can be some more gold hold up in filters and the stock pot and I probably lost some more silver as I didn't target that specifically. The silver I found was used in a thermal bond between the chip and the thermal lid. I had to incinerate the small white squares to get to the silver. A lot of work for a gram of silver.  

The silver followed the lids when I desoldered them. I found very little gold in the solder of the lids and I will not mess with that again, it was too little gold, barely detectable, so probably only milligrams of it.

Göran


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## anachronism (Feb 17, 2017)

Thanks Goran


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## Alentia (May 1, 2017)

Back in days I have posted how to process covar pins with pictures and I think I have video on youtube: Dissolving Kovar. They readily dissolve (those black MMX CPUs) in HNO3 and H2SO4, while adding acids slowly at high heat. Goran is correct that they foam like crazy, so one should be very careful. Once Ni, Fe and Cu dissolved and all pins are afloat, it is very nice and easy to dissolve remaining gold in AR.


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## Geo (May 2, 2017)

I've always removed the epoxy chip first and then a HCl bath without heat. The reaction of the solder dissolving gets pretty warm on it's own. Decant and rinse and then straight to AR. I've never had more problems with this than any other processor.


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## ChemGeek (Jan 23, 2019)

How black fibre Celerons, very much similar in external apperance to "proper" black fibre MMX compare in terms of yield?


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## g_axelsson (Jan 23, 2019)

ChemGeek said:


> How black fibre Celerons, very much similar in external apperance to "proper" black fibre MMX compare in terms of yield?


Almost impossible to say but probably similar yields. To get a proper yield you have to look at the S-code and not if it is an MMX or a celeron. Different size of die, manufacturing date and so on will all affect the amount of gold in a CPU. To get a specific yield you need to sort your CPU:s in a lot of different models. 

Since all are made basically the same way I don't see any reason of splitting it up in several different batches. But take a lot of notes of yields and over time your data will tell you the mean value as well as the spread between lots. The bigger the lots the lower the variation between lots, it all evens out in the end.

Göran


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## ChemGeek (Jan 24, 2019)

@g_axelsson,
Thanks for your comment. Out of lack of any better knowledge I will have to risk following deal:
One guy offers me 3kg of black fibre Celerons, very similar in appearance to MMX Pentiums.
He wants 5 grams of 24ct Au in exchange. There is a chance to get back 9-10g Au out of his processors.
So it looks sound at first glance.
Lets hope that these Celerons are comparable in yields to MMX. They are cheap brand, I know.


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## anachronism (Jan 24, 2019)

If anything the Celerons will be lower in yield than the MMX.


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## charlie2 (Jan 24, 2019)

archeonist said:


> Hmm.., now this is strange, why do most of my pins have a copperish color? I boiled in HCl for a few hours, only a few pins had come off. Is it ok to go to AR with the pins?
> Also the top epoxy layer is coming off. Revealing copper plating underneath, that I did not want to happen.. more basemetal will go in solution..
> 
> In the picture the cpu are soaked in fresh tap water.



hi mate,

i've processed these many times and you can put them in AR (after your HCL washing) but don't heat directly ,
put them in AR (add AR slowly according to your rythm and follow the reaction which is happening,it's very important) till level of AR is satisfactory for you , let stand there for a while ,when cold and once you don't see any reaction happening start adding heat slowly , then walaaa,

after that denox will take maybe one day or bit less for your batch on the photo, then the next day you can add 3 or 4 times or even bit more it's volume of water,use very hot water ( precipitation loves heat) let the silver chloride settle then add sodium bisulphite or cement it or whatever precipitating method you like,then you can get your gold powder ,

i advice you to do 4 or 5 batch ,like on your photo at the same time , because according to your photo , the amount of gold recovered will be little bit "petit"   ( it's not to make you give up on your task but to push you make your task better ) ,so if you have 4 or 5 batch like this , you are going to be happy  ;


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## anachronism (Jan 24, 2019)

charlie2 said:


> archeonist said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm.., now this is strange, why do most of my pins have a copperish color? I boiled in HCl for a few hours, only a few pins had come off. Is it ok to go to AR with the pins?
> ...



Charlie. I understand the theory behind doing things this way however that's a process that can be improved upon a great deal. It doesn't work too well if you have a decent sized batch because it takes too long. 

If you a decent batch (i.e. You have more than 4 or 5) you can premix AR and heat it prior to adding the carcasses. The amount of chips you can add at any one time is determined by the foaming. Start with one, then if it doesn't react too vigorously add another and so on until you get to a good stable fast dissolve. Then when one load is completed, add more processors to the same solution as above and repeat. That way you load your solution and use it more efficiently.

What method of denox do you use since a solution like this can be denoxxed in under an hour- faster if you know your Nitric and can judge the amounts you've added and correspondingly used?


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## g_axelsson (Jan 24, 2019)

Be aware, I'm only guessing so there i no guarantee that I'm right. Different die sizes affects the length of any bond wires and also the amount of gold in each CPU. The only way to be reasonable sure is to take a representative sample of a batch and making an assay.

Statistics and assays are your best friends, it's a numbers game.

Göran


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## saadat68 (Oct 18, 2019)

Hi
There are some electronic components on black cpus. Are they MLCC caps?
Thanks 

Image:
http://uupload.ir/files/5azc_download.jpg


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## anachronism (Oct 18, 2019)

Seriously?


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