# i know i am doing somethingwrong



## steyr223 (Dec 24, 2012)

Hello everyone
Did about 3 lbs of pencil size pins in sulfuric cell
3 pieces of goldware a very expensive mechanical
Pencil(boiled for almost 1 hr) and various boards
Etc.
Had problems with power(a few batches ran low amperage)
Diluted sulfuu acid, filtered, rinsed filters in hcl/bleach
Filtered AuCl, steamed for 1hr let cool
Dropped with 4 grams of smb. This is were I had issues
The au powders stayed in suspension for over 6 hrs
About 1/2 to 1 gram dropped but the rest refused to
move . I decided to heat gently in glass other than
Pyrex in pot of water. Glass broke at maybe 110°f
Poured all contents into plastic bottle
Countinuef to next post. (I think there's a happy ending)


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## steyr223 (Dec 24, 2012)

Looked up at sun through container and Holly *h1t
The whole bottom is covered

What happened to not let it drop in the first place?
By the way the water in the pot that got mixed was
About 2xmy solution which I already doubled with smb
Addition 
So in the end 4x my AuCl volume
Also the pot I used i was throwing my done pins in so had
Slight remains of sulfuric acid
Sorry for rambling
Instead of a new topic I have Ben meaning to start
What in the heck is all the muk left over from filtering
My AuCl (it looks like poo)
Thanks Steyr223


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## Pantherlikher (Dec 25, 2012)

You did not mention doing any tests to see where your gold is hiding... or all in 1 place...
Unfortunatly, I see this as a big problem with us all... Mixing materials. Not having enough of "same type". So we end up with all kinds of non-PM metals and organics.

What happened is you, like us all that get excited, got impatient. Collect what did drop and finish the process while letting the rest settle out. 
I wonder if using hard water would be keeping stuff afloat instead of soft water or H2O.

I had a water softiner when I did my first process/disaster, poor man's AR for everything at once, and everything settled quite rapidly. "SMB' drop was half an hour, drained off and let settle over night and nothing was on the bottom... but saved last bit of water as will always be something even if not seen.

BS.
Hope everyone got Happyness for Christmas...
If not, find out why and get some.


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## Pantherlikher (Dec 25, 2012)

steyr223 said:


> Hello everyone
> Did about 3 lbs of pencil size pins in sulfuric cell
> 3 pieces of goldware a very expensive mechanical
> Pencil(boiled for almost 1 hr) and various boardsEtc.
> ...




Try to describe with more accurate words... 
"Pencil sized pins"? Pins really the size of a new wooden pencil?
Problems with power? like power outage or Cell slowed for some reason.
Spelling especially for important things like acids so we know exactly what you mean.

Important TIP I see here"
Always use the right stuff so accidents NEVER happen. Like making sure you use the right glassware...not just whatever is closest....

Ok, enough nitpicking...
I wouldn't think too much water would be a problem except maybe PH moving up. But of course, I could be not seeing a dilution error.

BS.
Patience is a virtue...Just wish it would be faster...


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## steyr223 (Dec 25, 2012)

Pantherkiller thanks for the reply
sorry about spelling my glasses are not with me
And I use my phone. On top of that I am in wifi
hell and this lovely form disappears with all
that I wrote in a breath.

Pencil thickness about 1" long. (Couplers 4 in each)
I had thought it was alright to mix materials in a
sulfuric Cell. Especially due to all the material I
Mentioned I have been doing this way successfuly
For 2 months except for THE MECHANICAL PENCIL

Also I forgot to mention when I first added smb I
Seen many small flakes instantly rise to the top and
Float . They were all about the same size but I believe
Different shapes (3,4,5 sides, but not symmetrical)
about ¼ or smaller in diameter 
they were gold in color
I added dish soap.
The last of it is still in suspension 
Thanks Steyr223 rob


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## steyr223 (Dec 25, 2012)

The last post I'd supposed to say ¼" 
I forgot the inch symbol and my phone won't
Let me edit because I wrote past the bottom
And can not see what is past the bottom

My post in window wont scroll like a PC the whole page scrolls
Instead 

Thanks Steyr223 rob


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## steyr223 (Dec 26, 2012)

Still in suspention
I do not have my stannous chloride with me
I grabbed everything I could think of that I needed
From my truck witch is locked behind a fence at my
Mechanics, so I could process enough au to pay
for the fuel pump.
My material filled my friends trunk,..twice!
I have been using my cell with a car battery which
Died so I have a big battery charger hooked direct
I can't figure why it only works here and there,new
Sulfuric acid,new stainless mixing bowl new battery
cables,
I shut it down when it gets hot, now I'm having
major problems with filtering,,even my vacuum filter
plugged with vacuum holding for hours
Sorry countinued to next post


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## steyr223 (Dec 26, 2012)

Does tin also effect the cell if say you ran it hot
enough or if its diluted and the solder is attacked
Is Meta stannic acid possabley my filtering problem
?
Tomorrow I melt what I have, I have thrown nothing
away, I have been working non stop on my low low
Grade e-scrap.
I am also running 3 different a/p processes, and have
flatbacks ready to roast
Thanks Steyr223 rob
Incineration is probably necessary due to my filtering

All comments are welcome and appreciated


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## scrappile (Dec 26, 2012)

it only works here and there

you mean the charger , is it an automatic one,.?

hooked to cellwith out a battery ,


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## steyr223 (Dec 26, 2012)

Hey scrappile
Yes it is hooked directly to the
Charger and no battery
I am almost positive it's not auto,the
amp meter always shows a pull...only
??? The amps drawn are more as the
gold is deplated, shouldn't the charger
Stop drawing amps once the part is
Deplated? 
Not sure but logic tells me if you run it
Hot then it would show more of a draw
As it started to dissolve other metals 
I believe my here and there perception was due
To it not working because it was hot
Continued if possible "


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## Geo (Dec 26, 2012)

if the electrolyte is diluted or hot, it will keep drawing amps and dissolving base metal. if you experience shows the piece to be stripped within X amount of seconds and the power is still drawing amps it means the base metal is dissolving. also when the electrolyte gets fouled with metals like nickel and cobalt, it will keep drawing current after the gold is stripped.


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## steyr223 (Dec 26, 2012)

When I started with the battery I could do
A good amount of material at once quickly
With out excess heat 
3 or. 4 batches say about ½ a coffee cup of regular
Computer pins or about 15-20 of my coupler pins


It seemed it was the same with the charger but took
much longer plus my sulfuric acid seemed to evaporate
Quicker

A lot of seemed and maybe's ...I tried to see a pattern
But there were to many variables
Emmy God I am glad my filtering nightmare was only
A days work 1-2 grams
Thanks Steyr223 rob


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## steyr223 (Dec 26, 2012)

Geo how are the grand kids
Sorry I didn't see your post but
Yep that's what I thought.

When you have enough knowledge about a subject
and you have problems and are still able to see your
Mistakes and make sense of it, lets just say it's a
heck of a lot better then complete confusion

I still have a little ways to go (maybe 20 years or so)
But I am getting there
Thanks Steyr223 rob

So what is the muk in my filter after filtering my aucl  
:lol:


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## Geo (Dec 26, 2012)

it could be almost any of the metal sulfates. copper sulfate is a white, blueish pasty stuff (blue crystal if pure). iron is somewhere around aquamarine to green.


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## steyr223 (Dec 27, 2012)

It is light brown.
It would spread like a thick frosting 
It looks like mask from. pcb's.,but I see
the same material from deplating 
Thanks Steyr223 rob


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## scrappile (Dec 27, 2012)

steyr223 said:


> Hey scrappile
> Yes it is hooked directly to the
> Charger and no battery
> I am almost positive it's not auto,the
> ...




Without seeing it , Things that come to mind are

connections, grabbing small wire with the clamps , small movement can affect contact, wrap a bolt to increase area of contact
the anode/cath, any chance of movement for shorts , think that will generate heat , 

anyway
you won't learn on the stuff that works like a charm, if you work through finding and correcting with the help of these others that know, won't be long,


I'm a ways from even starting the actual steps


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## steyr223 (Dec 27, 2012)

Thanks Kieth 
When I mentioned above about to many variables
the cables shorting was.one I solved.
It worked. 2 times than stopped
Along with contamination and possibly evaporation
I believe part of the problems were from
To little sulfuric acid, I kept telling myself "a ¼ of
a quart isn't that much"

Anyways. I got a lot of "I wont do that again)"s out
Of this
I always say "The worst possible time to learn something 
Is always the best lesson learned "
and boy this was one of those times :lol: 
thanks Steyr223 rob
PS don't ever check for spark above your sulfuric cell
Especially if you smell the gases, it wont kill you but
It could blind you .


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## scrappile (Dec 27, 2012)

"That is experience no one can take away from you" and "I don't know if you know this, but I'm going to tell it to you like you don't"
are some phrases heard that from my favorite trainer at BFG,. Also things like Geo mentions , like the continuing to run just with base metals I think of as Highlighted things in a text book.
It's something that will get you if not paying attention. some of the trainners wouldn't mention them . Butcher and lots of others have answered a lot for me just by the details on the what went wrong with this post and questions . I am lucky because I think chemicals and few little things are the only thing I'll have to get,.. a corning ware dish Butcher said he uses Is same as one I have had / never cooked in it for many years built a ball mill with stuff around here. am side tracked with a burn barrel for leaves after reading in another thread. problem for a long time and few mods I think the smoke won't be an issue any more. 


anyway if I get to a cell, I am planning on maybe a terminal strip attached to the tank, like in this picture,


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## steyr223 (Dec 27, 2012)

Kieth I can't read the highlights in the pic
Is the yellow a probe

If not I would set a couple extra wires for probes
If you plan on doing any amount of multiple items
It worked excellent for me

I like my cathode(negative) to actually be my steel
Or as pot and then I use a plastic strainers in the acid
with multiple pieces in it,then I just kinda move the
Probe(anode positive) around in the pieces
Or I make some kind of metal box to hold the pieces
That sets in the strainer and just attach the anode to
the box (a probe comes in handy here to so you can
Move your pieces around)
Hope this helps Steyr223 rob


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## scrappile (Dec 27, 2012)

it's just one side of power supply, ring terminal into binding post, so the ring would be to the metal tank or if a grid , thought one would be suspended in not touching anything, so this is just thoughts when i see something folks using, my main thing is the terminal strip would be insulated and attached to tank, with the leads to p\s the plug then the piece from term strip to the actual cath/anode is parts to focus on, I haven't really looked close but when i do material and process will determine set up, seems cobber mesh, stainless screen and few others caught my eye so stripping some cable found braided copper , then also have some tinned copper braid, saw talk of keeping tin out of think all so keep my copper , have stainlees steel mesh \screen 32" circle so long way away .


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## steyr223 (Dec 28, 2012)

Ok a long time ago(1 month)
I asked if running your cell hot would take
Your gold or just be there with your gold
I was told the later
Opps :shock: wrong question
I should have asked what happens when you
Melt it
Well it went into solution like gold, the black slime
looked normal, it came out of solution but it needed
Heat to drop and suspended for quite a while
So I guess these are my clues that something is wrong.
I melted today all the gold collected from the cell
And some from a/p. Should have been 4-6 grams
Haven't weighed buy less than 1 gram and its black on top
definitely not my norm. I knew as soon as I said it seems
to be taking to long to melt.
Back to the start. "@ least it wasn't an ounce"


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## steyr223 (Dec 31, 2012)

Hi again
I started thinking about my melt
I saw all the gold that dropped. Not
The same that melted
Wouldn't that mean my gold is in my melting dish

How wouldi go about getting it
I will post a pic of the dish tomorrow
thanks Steyr223 rob


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## steyr223 (Dec 31, 2012)

The dish appears red but I am color blind
Iron oxide or iron sulfate. Maybe? Just a guess.
thanks


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## steyr223 (Jan 6, 2013)

I ground up the dish the finest I could and put
It back inti solution (hcl/bleach)
I got about .3 grams more excellent color.

By the way my contaminated nugget was. 7 grams and
A woppin 84%
Thanks everyone rob


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## g_axelsson (Jan 7, 2013)

That red color in the dish looks a lot like lead oxide (litharge), maybe a byproduct from the cell or traces from solder.
On your description it sounded like you didn't refine your gold after the cell or AP, just melted it down. That should also explain the large part of contaminants in it (16%).
If you collected all that's left after AP then you probably got a lot of lead from solder as that isn't very soluble in AP.

Göran


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## steyr223 (Jan 8, 2013)

I always refine with hcl/bleach
After I am done filtering my a/p or slimes from the cell
I drop my filters in hcl/bleach. Until there is no more back
or gold
Then I filter my auric chloride through a series of
Chairman plugs until crystal clear

I'm sure Geo had it right. Oxides and sulphates
From running it diluted and hot


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