# Red magnetic ore



## Brandt (Nov 24, 2009)

Has lot of gold in with silver. Best way to get the gold out. Any body know> Thanks


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## honesto (Nov 24, 2009)

It would be good to see a visual picture of the red magnetic ore plus any preliminary assays. For small scale economic extraction the issue would be how to concentrate the gold or precious metal fraction and separating the gangue as cheaply as possible.Once concentration is done sir there are many techniques available to isolate and refine the economic precious metals in your concentrate. My guess is you sir have to crush ore until the release size of the precious metals has been achieved.Then you sir may figure out how to concentrate the precious metals by gravity, water, chemicals,electromagtnetics etc...Thanks for allowing me to share my humble opinion.


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## Richard36 (Nov 25, 2009)

Brandt said:


> Has lot of gold in with silver. Best way to get the gold out. Any body know> Thanks



Hello Brandt.

I figured that I would post the instructions that I sent to you in a PM so that we could both get some feedback on what I suggested for you to do.

The gold within that ore is most likely micron in size, and therefore, leaching, or smelting to lead are the options that I figure would work best.

I have made comment about those "Red Rocks" in one of my other posts. It is nice to see that someone has found some! What did it assay out at? I found some that assayed out at 3 oz per ton Au, but have read that they can assay out at as high as 30 oz per ton!

Anyway, the processes listed below are what I suggested that Brandt do.
Anyone else have any comments, or suggestions?

Large scale processes I am not all that familiar with, but if it can be striped with The muriatic /clorox method found on this forum, that would be a reasonable option for 5 to 10 gallons of material. The leach could be used to strip the ore untill spent, draw off or filter the leach solution, then follow the procedures for this method to recover your values from solution. That would be the plan of action that I would follow. Try this method with a small amout of leach, such as a quart of solution, and reuse it on fresh ore, untill it is spent, then test a few drops of this solution with a drop or two of stanous Chloride to see if it produces a purple, or black spot . The more gold the solution contains, the darker the spot is. 

I have never tried the muriatic/clorox method, only read about it on this forum. 
If it works for you, Please let me know. I have some ore that I would like to try it on.

The other option is to use a furnace and about 3oz of lead.

Smelt your ore with a mix of 2 prts borax 1prt sodium carbonate and 1prt ore with the lead. All prts are measurements by weight, not by volume. If you are lucky, you could smelt your ore directly to the lead without any flux. The ore should be at least sugar fine. The lead is to be reused with each batch you smelt, untill it becomes hard, and resistant to being smashed with a hammer. At this point, it is saturated with metals from the ore. This is determined by checking it in between batches after the melt has been poured to a mold, and let cool. The mold should be coated with a very thin coating of motor, or vegtable oil to prevent the lead from welding to the mold as it cools. Turn the mold upsidedown for a couple of minutes to let all the excess oil drain out in order to prevent the possibility of the melt splatering 2200F molten material, which will start fires, and cause serious burns if it splaters on you. Be carefull. At this point, you have the option of cupeling it to recover the precious metals, or dissolving it in Aqua Regia, and following that method to recover the values from solution.

As I said before, I hope one of these two processes work for you.
Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## butcher (Nov 25, 2009)

something to consider when leaching ore, base metals such as Iron will dissolve first, I leached some recently and took several leaches to get the iron out, then came copper then finally values, acids changed colors giving somewhat a clue as to metals they were extracting.
guess I am trying to say dont just do one leach and think you have every thing, it may still be there with the mud, testing solutions is a big help lets you have a clue to what is where.
concentrate as best as possible, and a good roast to oxidize the easily oxidizable metals,and drive off anions, I used portions heated in coffee pot with leach then pour off into ceramic pot, @least once a day, I would stir and add lil bit bleach, after couple days of that, would let sit till solution and any powders settled and solution well cleared of any precipitant or turbid look, and then would decant this not disturbing mud, and repeat next leach on ore. the decanted solution heated to drive off free chlorine-oxidizers ,filter, tested and if positive a copper bar to cement values,


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## Richard36 (Nov 25, 2009)

butcher said:


> something to consider when leaching ore, base metals such as Iron will dissolve first, I leached some recently and took several leaches to get the iron out, then came copper then finally values, acids changed colors giving somewhat a clue as to metals they were extracting.
> guess I am trying to say dont just do one leach and think you have every thing, it may still be there with the mud, testing solutions is a big help lets you have a clue to what is where.



True, I have experienced similiar problems with doing an Aqua Regia assay on some black sand. The high iron content would use up the aqua regia in short order. 

I do not think that Brandt would have this problem with that "Red Rock", Though it contains some iron, it should not be in that high a concentration. Even though I have not saw a photo of his material, I am familiar with what it is. I have some of that type of material in my ore collection, which I am going to take a photo of (as well as a few other ores) and post them under "The Rock Man" sometime here in the next three days,(Hopefully).

Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## Richard36 (Nov 27, 2009)

I have just posted a few photos of that "Red Ore", along with a few others under "The Rock Man".

Check them out.

Enjoy!

Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome, and appreciated.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## Brandt (Nov 27, 2009)

Picture of red magnetic ore


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## Richard36 (Nov 27, 2009)

This looks alot like what I found.
Good stuff!

Compare the photos.

The following is an explanation of its formation that I posted on my thread, "The Rock Man".

I am pretty sure that it is created by by iron rich precious metal bearing hydrothermal solutions reacting with the calcium content in the surounding rock, which causes the Gold, Silver, and Iron to drop out in high concentration due to the fact that calcium dissolved into hydrthermal solutions will cause all other metals to drop out. Calcium is way high toward the top of the list in the "Electromotive Dissplacement Series" of metals dissolved within an acidic solution, which hydrothermal solutions are. Calcium is also a strong reducing agent, so we have both factors going for us in the creation of this type of ore. This is the exact reason that "Skarn" is the "Holy Grail" of mineral bearing "Rock Types". Pound for pound, it will hold more metallic minerals than any other type of rock. The only other "Rock Type" that even comes close Is "Pegmatite". "Granite Pegmatite", and "Nepheline Syenite Pegmatite" especially, though a great majority of its mineral constituents will be of the nonmetallic variety, and an abundance of them will be "Gemstones" which are abundant within these two Pegmatites.

I hope that this has been helpfull.
Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome, and appreciated.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## honesto (Nov 28, 2009)

I saw the pictures of "rock man", and the suggestion that the ore is a contact metasomatic type from hydrothermal gold bearing solutions.And that the gold is microscopic and calcium is part of the rock type.I am inclined to suggest a fine grind and a rigged up pressure leach for maximum recovery of the gold.In my little and humble experience what we do for such types of ore , when the gold values are high as suggested , is to rig up a pressure/boiling leach with cyanide,nitric/sodium metabisulfite powder. Boiling in triple distilled water for an hour. Filter solution or decant clear solution.Boil of to crust. Metalize in furnace. Refine for gold and silver recovery as the case maybe.Have cane vinegar always on your side, in case of accident drink red cane vinegar before your eyes pop out. whew! Other leaches maybe used, point is to popout the microscopic gold from the ore matrix in to the solution.Normally 150 grams of cyanide and 150 grams of powder are used per gallon of distilled water.The procedure is conducted in a safe secure unpopulated area that is well ventillated. Hope to have contributed something useful to you guys.


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## Richard36 (Nov 28, 2009)

honesto said:


> I saw the pictures of "rock man", and the suggestion that the ore is a contact metasomatic type from hydrothermal gold bearing solutions.And that the gold is microscopic and calcium is part of the rock type..



Hello honesto.

Thanks for the reply, and welcome to the forum!

I am impressed! As far as I can recall, I have made no mention of "Metasomatic Metamorphism" anywhere in my posts. The closest I got was mentioning "Skarn", which is produced in that process from "Carbonatite", or "Marble" in a zone that has been altered by hot "Hydrothermal Solutions", or heat itself (without the presence of water) altering the overlying said "Rock Types", though water is necessary for the enrichment of the overlying rock.

The "White Host Rock" of that ore in my photos is a "Hybrid Rock" consisting of "Gabbro", (which is a "Magmatic Diffrentiation Product" of "Granitic Magma"), and "Carbonatite", (which is a "Magmatic differentiation Product" of "Nepheline Syenite", and which is also a "Magmatic Differentiation Product" of "Granite"). It is not quite "Skarn", though the processes for it to have become "Skarn" were present when it formed, and therefore explains why the largest chunk of the encasing rock has an abundance of other oxides, (and more likely sulfides), [Oxides occure above the "Water Table", and "Sulfides" occure below the "Water Table".] of gray color scattered all through it. Probably not visible in the photo, but they are there. 

Do you have knowledge of "Petrology", and "Mineral Vein Environments"?
If so, I would much enjoy conversing with you on those topics.

Any further info that you could share with me and others on processing ores would be greatly appreciated as well.
Thanks for your input.
I hope to hear from you again.

Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome, and appreciated.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## Rhodium (Nov 28, 2009)

Richard36 said:


> [Oxides occure above the "Water Table", and "Sulfides" occure below the "Water Table".]



Interesting.
Could you go into that a little Rick ?


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## Richard36 (Nov 28, 2009)

Rhodium said:


> Richard36 said:
> 
> 
> > [Oxides occure above the "Water Table", and "Sulfides" occure below the "Water Table".]
> ...



Hello Rhodium.
Thanks for the reply!

To make this as simple as possible, 

Once the water is gone, any metals that are left as a metallic vapor, and or native metals, chemically combine with the oxygen from the air to produce "Metallic Oxides", as is the case for converting lead into "Litharge" in the "Scorification Process" of the lead button obtained in doing a "Fire Assay".

While "Water" is present, "Sulfur Gas" from the magma combines with the Water to produce "Sulfuric Acid", and the dissolved metals combine with the sulfur from the Sulfuric Acid, and/or the Sulfur Gas, (as is done by dropping the Gold from spent Aqua Regia by bubbling "Sulfur Dioxide Gas" through the solution to precipitate the Gold as Gold Sulfide), and precipitate out of solution at the "Melting/Solidifing Temperature" of each individual sulfide, as pressure, and temperature decrease. 

Therefore, it is possible to determine if a deposit formed above, or below the "Water Table" by the minerals that it contains, as well as the Temperature at which the minerals formed. Determining the deposits "Formation Temperature" is alot easier with "Sulfides", than with "Oxides", but can be done as well.

I suppose the next question will be what minerals to look for that indicate the solidifing temps for Gold, Silver, and Platinum, Right? lol!

I do have that info, but would have to go through my books to look it up.
Most minerals that contain metals have a "Melting/Solidifing Temp" close to that of the metal it contains, so if you know what the metals "Melting/Solidifing Temp" is, you can figure out the "Formation Temp" of the deposit in question.

When Hunting Ores, this is valuable info.

Thanks for the response.
It lead me to disscuss far more than you asked.
I like it, alot!

Questions, comments, and suggestions are allways welcome, and appreciated.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## Rhodium (Nov 28, 2009)

Your hired !!!!!!


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## Richard36 (Nov 28, 2009)

Rhodium said:


> Your hired !!!!!!


lol! 

Hired for what, finding mineral deposits?
When do we go?!?

Thanks again Rhodium.

Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Sincerely, Rick.


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## Rhodium (Nov 28, 2009)

Richard36 said:


> Rhodium said:
> 
> 
> > Your hired !!!!!!
> ...



If i was prospecting i would sure want you on my Rock Hound team.


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## Brandt (Nov 29, 2009)

Thought this might interest you guys.


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## Richard36 (Nov 30, 2009)

Brandt said:


> Thought this might interest you guys.



Hello Brandt.

Thanks for the PDF.

I thought that I should post this info here as well.

Here are some books I suggest that you, and others get to study with, as well as look up and read in concerning anything that I have posted about "Minerals and Geology".

National Audubon Society
Field Guide to North American Rocks and Minerals. To order by phone, (800) - 733 - 3000
ISBN 0-394-50269-8

Simon & Schuster's guide to 
Rocks and Minerals http://www.SimonSays.com
ISBN 0-671-24417-5

Dorling Kindersley Handbooks
Rocks and minerals http://www.dk.com
ISBN 1-56458-061-x

REBO PRODUCTIONS
Minerals Encyclopaedia http://www.rebo-publishers.com [email protected]
ISBN 184 0134 046
ISBN 1-84053-163-0

David & Charles
Minerals & Gemstones of the World
ISBN 0-7153-0197-7

Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome, and appreciated.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## Richard36 (Nov 30, 2009)

Rhodium said:


> Richard36 said:
> 
> 
> > Rhodium said:
> ...




Hello Rhodium.

Thanks! 

Maybe someone here will see the light, and ask me to do such a thing.
I can, and do find deposits, my issue is with equipment, and facilities. 
If anyone here has access to those two things, I would be interested in helping them find a good deposit, and working it together, if not the one that I have allready found. (1.17 tn Au, 3.51 tn Ag)

Just a thought, and I am open to disscussion on that topic.
Thanks again.

Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## Brandt (Dec 5, 2009)

another picture of the rocks I screened out.


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## Richard36 (Dec 7, 2009)

Brandt said:


> another picture of the rocks I screened out.



Hello Brandt,

The lighter colored coarser material in the photo is "Rhyolite". 

It is a magmatic differentiation product of granite formed in volcanic mountain ranges. 
It can form at depth as a diferentiation product from granitic magma, or as compacted ash fields from ancient "Pyroclastic Flows" created by "Explosive Volcanic Events". 
The small white feldspar crystals in your samples indicate that it formed at depth.

This type of rock proves that you are in a region that has been subjected to the neccessary heat energy to dissolve metals, and minerals at depth, and redeposit them close to the surface in "Epithermal", and "Hypothermal Vein Systems", which in turn produce "Elluvial Bench Placers", which in turn weather away with erosion cased by rainfall in to "Alluvial Stream Placer" deposits of Native Metals, and Heavy Minerals.

If you have not found the outcrop bearing that red material, You should work up stream looking as you go for any light colored, whitish rock as being the host rock for the red material containing the values.

That is the plan of action that I would follow.

Sincerely; Rick; a.k.a. "The Rock Man".


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## honesto (Dec 8, 2009)

To Brandt,

the problem sometimes in locating for precious metal ores is that the ores cannot be seen. The best thing to do i think is to look for the precious metal halos.After that bulls eye the ore. This can be done by simple colorimetry. In prospecting carry for the precious metal halo carry nitric acid and test-tubes. Little samples will react with the little nitric acid to produce characteristic precious metal colors. Particularly when the material is contaminated with platinum group of metals. Purple of cassius when you are dead center on a high grade gold vein( Sometimes hair thin gold veins).
Hope to have contributed something of value...I have had more than 30 years experience in looking for ores as a prospector.Even at dilute nitric solutions characteristic precious metal colors will appear. For questions and clarifications feel free to post.


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## Richard36 (Dec 12, 2009)

[Chuckle],

It is a little more complicated than that.

The following reactions take place with high grade ore.

Aqua regia (Neutralized) + Stanous Chloride = Purple to Black for Au. [Relavent to gold content]
--------------------------------------------------- = Yellow for Pt.
--------------------------------------------------- = Blue-Green for Pd.
---------------------------- + Potassium Iodide = Red Solution for Pt.
---------------------------- + Potassium Iodide = Black Solution for Pd.
---------------------------- + Acetone or Ethanol = Black precipitate for Rd.

Nitric acid + Hydrochloric Acid = A white precipitate of Silver Chloride.

Hydrochloric Acid = Orange Solution, + Nitric Acid = Black Precipitate for Ru.

This will get you started, lol!

I hope that this has been helpfull.

Sincerely; Rick. "The Rock Man".


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## honesto (Dec 15, 2009)

Correct, and maybe i could start manufacturing those metals again from high grade au pgm ores found in my country. That is when i can find time and some extra funds and nice excuses to disappear in the boondocks. Rhodium is a nasty metal though , nearly took my thighs off one time.Thanks for the chuckle and the qualifying information.

Honesto


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## Platdigger (Dec 15, 2009)

Rick, in your post you say: "Aqua regia (Neutralized)"

Do you mean "denoxed"?


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## Richard36 (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks Honesto.

I wish you the best of luck in your endevors.

What's the story with your experience with Rhodium?
Thanks again for the compliment on the testing procedures for ores, and of course, the chuckle. 




> Rick, in your post you say: "Aqua regia (Neutralized)". Do you mean "denoxed"?



Yes, By the boil down method, or by using urea, I suppose. 
I have never used urea, only the boil down method.

(Boil the AR three times, adding a little HCL each time to keep it liquid, and not dry out, or you will have to start over by adding more AR. Some sources say to add a little Sulfuric after the first boil down instead of HCL. The sulfuric helps to drive off the nitric portion of the acid.)

Sincerely; Rick. "The Rock Man".


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## honesto (Dec 16, 2009)

I was in a third party dispute , where some australian mining guys where having problems detecting in their labs the presence of gold with platinum group of metals with the platinum bi-metals on the high side. Guys from the arbiter side (Americans) were laughing at them. I told them after months of their trying from ore concentrates similar to what is posted here, to bug -off and leave me alone and go home to australia.Red faced the australians asked me to take the complex ore to detectable levels please.I told not to mess with these stuff if they don't know the procedures. To quiet them and so that they could go back to australia with some respect , i agreed to make some detactable metals from my section of the quartered ore concentrates with one of them present at all times. Owing to lack of time and to protect hard earned secrets , i jury rigged a set -up.So i made quick work producing iridoplats, palladium, gold, silver... etc. They wanted a purer product for rhodium. I told them it would be difficult under these open furnace conditions , and i would not want to waste gold already made on stabilizing the rhodium metal. As we were debating while working with the melt, the rhodium containing melt destabilized and a particle hit my left thigh, my leg ballooned. I drank an anti -dote based on gold solution to stop it. That was a decade ago. Up to now i maintain good relations with the australians but sometimes they cause me headaches with their modern methods whew.


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## Richard36 (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks Honesto.

That was a good story.

So Rhodium seems to be quite toxic then. 
I am familiar with toxic solutions formed by dissolving metals in acids, and the possibility of them being abbsorbed through the skin, as well as toxic metallic fumes created by melting anything containing metal(s), and the hazards of breathing them.

Aside from the obvious burn recieved from being splatered with molten metal, or a very hot solidified fragment, I am not quite following you. Could you explain a little further why/how it poisoned you to the extent that you needed an antidote?

What is this gold solution antidote that you speak of?
How does it work?

I have not done much with the Pt Group, So this info would be of importance to me, Possibly to others as well.

Sincerely; Rick. "The Rock Man".


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## honesto (Dec 17, 2009)

Rhodium has catalytic properties. If i can recall , i rigged a lime block crucible into a miniature high temp micro bomb furnace with propane gas as the athmosphere (hydrogen source) and fuel source. The micro furnace was raised and near me. I did not have time to condition or to prep upthe lime block for humid conditions such as found in tropical open areas.As the melt proceeded the molten the button size metal started to vibrate, molten metal was reacting to athmosphere.The bomb cracked and i had no gold metal within reach to plunk into the melt, so that the metal would not react to open humid atmosphere .It was like sitting beside a jet engine. Anyway a piece of the vibrating metal entered my thigh and i had an instantaneous tumor on my thigh. The anti-dote was the gold solution used by rheumatoid athritis sufferers. Doctors usually inject this to the patients to the affected or inflamed area. Then i drank fresh milk, had a flushing fruit diet of grape fruit and mangosteen fruit. The metal when stabilized with gold ,will cease reacting in your body , the tumour will also deflate just as fast. Its a dangerous metal to work with especially if you don't have the proper safety equipment, tools, and the metal is an unstable catalyst .I have friends who have died from working with rhodium metal in switzerland in the jewelry business. Now i also carry instock for safety anti -tumor plants/cancer plants as part of my diet. Yellow ginger( curcuma longa var.culibra),red ginger, angelica keiskei from japan. Rhodium metal is much easier to recover from ores associated or bound by gold , or when associated with platinum proper, or in finished metal scraps where they are or already have been stabilized. Now there are safer ways of extracting pges if it is worth your while. Many thanks for allowing me to share what little i know , and maybe it will be of some use to you guys.My ores before came from ultramafics and sometimes more often than not was contaminated with thallium.


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