# Melting catalytic converters



## madelyn (May 23, 2013)

Hi everyone! I can't seem to find to much info on this topic. I was wondering if it's possible to use an electric furnace with a tungsten element which can reach up to 2500 degrees for melting the cats. I get a substantial amount of cats from time to time and I usually process them with hcl and cl. The process works great but my cats are piling up and my chemical waist also gets to much. If anybody can assist me on this it would be highly appreciated. I don't know if such a furnace even exist.


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## Lou (May 23, 2013)

They are done in an arc furnace.

Talk to BASF.


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## madelyn (May 23, 2013)

Thanks lou! can you send me a link?


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## Lou (May 23, 2013)

Yes:

BASF REFINING
Address: 554 Engelhard Dr, Seneca, SC 29678
Phone864) 882-9841


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## madelyn (May 25, 2013)

Hi Lou! I made contact with basf and they can't supply small arc furnaces. I don't need something that big and expensive because I get about 30 cats a month. Is there any other smaller furnaces I can use that reach those high temps?


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## nickvc (May 25, 2013)

In my opinion no i dont think there is another furnace that gets hot enough so the next best thing is to empty the cats grind and and blend them and take assays and sell on, the down side is you need volume to get good payouts, probably a ton plus, but there are middle men who probably would pay pretty close to what they get from the big boys but would take a small profit.


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## Lou (May 25, 2013)

Sorry, misunderstood you. Sell your catalyst to them then buy your own arc furnace 


But you don't have enough and wet chemistry probably won't get you much more than a broker.


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## Marcel (May 25, 2013)

You cannot simply melt cats. The PMs are only plated on the surface of the ceramic. 
You will need a collector metal like copper to collect all the PMs from the cats. This is how it is done in a smelter furnace. No need to say, that you will have to seperate the copper from the PMs lateron - chemically of course... 
30 cats/month is not a lot. You better find a trustful refinery and either sell them or have them toll refined.


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## madelyn (May 26, 2013)

The problem is that I am in Namibia in Africa and the only refiners are over seas. When sending to a refinery my shipping costs wil take up most of the profits on the cats, that's why I have to refine myself and sell only the metals locally and like lou said , the wet chemistry won't get me very far. I am fully aware that you need a collecter metal when melting the cats but that's not the main concern. I would first have to have the wright furnace to get the ceramic to melting temps and at the moment my only option is that big expensive arc furnace.


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## Marcel (May 26, 2013)

madelyn said:


> The problem is that I am in Namibia in Africa and the only refiners are over seas.


OK, now that makes a big difference! A fantastic, beautyful country btw....
Thermite comes to my mind: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite . 
It can easily be obtained even in remote namibia and it is capeable of reaching such high temperatures.
But I have no experience on the success or any reports on anyone using it for melting PMG metals.


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## solar_plasma (May 26, 2013)

> Thermite comes to my mind:



Half of it will be blown away with the smoke and the rest will be captured in the slacks and the iron, then you are not come one step closer to the pgm's. Extracting or leaching will be the only way.


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## samuel-a (May 26, 2013)

Arc furnace has no difficulties to melt down the ceramic substrate. More over, make it liquide enough (by temp') so the use of liquefying agents is only minimal and with no need for collector metal.
Material is melted under Argon and continuously fed via sealed screw conveyor.
They can run it for weeks on end, from time to time slag is removed using an overflow port and the furnace is fed with new material.

The metal pool is tapped from time to time.
Furnace is off only for maintenance or if they run out of material.

In my opinion, if you can't feed and operate a 1 cu.m. furnace (at least), there's no point even looking at this direction.


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## madelyn (May 26, 2013)

But what I don't understand is if you get a large arc furnace,why are there no smaller versions and what about induction furnaces. Don't they reach high enough temps to melt the ceramics?


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## Platdigger (May 27, 2013)

Thing about an induction furnace is the charge needs to be inductive.
I mean you could melt iron and then try to add cat substrate to the charge...but I don't really see that working very well.

And yes, I have thought about making a smaller arc furnace. I think it could be done without too much trouble.
Problem is how to feed the thing on an at least a somewhat continuous basis.


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## madelyn (May 27, 2013)

Full bridge and half bridge induction furnaces heat up most of the metals, it does not need to be magnetic. You can heat up copper to melting temps and you can even take a carbon crusible and heat that up until the metal starts melting on the inside. The thing is just that I don't know what temps they can reach and if the carbon won't start burning out on that high temp. 
When building a small arc furnace, can't you design it to stay closed with about 5 to 10kg of meterial and melt that first and than move on to the next batch or is it going to take up to much energy heating up every time?


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## samuel-a (May 27, 2013)

madelyn said:


> Full bridge and half bridge induction furnaces heat up most of the metals, it does not need to be magnetic. You can heat up copper to melting temps and you can even take a carbon crusible and heat that up until the metal starts melting on the inside. The thing is just that I don't know what temps they can reach and if the carbon won't start burning out on that high temp.
> When building a small arc furnace, can't you design it to stay closed with about 5 to 10kg of meterial and melt that first and than move on to the next batch or is it going to take up to much energy heating up every time?



I do not see it brining any profit.
But i could be wrong of course... 

Induction is no-go for non metals.


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