# SMB is Tan now what



## WIZZARD (May 23, 2010)

I use SMB in the solution free of oxidizing agents got tan cream drop, hows it look to you?




I got an idea, what to do next, but would like to know what, the normal accepted procedures, recommended by the forum are?

WIZ


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 23, 2010)

The solution that you filtered. Does it have any fine paticals left in it? If so let it settle and then pour off the liquid carefully. The material in your filter needs to be rinsed into a container and let settle and then the liquid poured off. It looks like you might have used an excess amount of SMB in that case I would wash your material with HCL and let your material settle and repeat 2-3 times.


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## WIZZARD (May 23, 2010)

> The solution that you filtered. Does it have any fine paticals left in it? If so let it settle and then pour off the liquid carefully. The material in your filter needs to be rinsed into a container and let settle and then the liquid poured off. It looks like you might have used an excess amount of SMB in that case I would wash your material with HCL and let your material settle and repeat 2-3 times.



Yep!, your right, after overnight more tan dropped. I did the same to another small test batch and the HCL solution seamed to carry some metal, however the tan material remaining on the filter was ignited and the residue is very brown sponge looking, it is not glittery yet.

It went through the HCL and cherry red heat. I only have a small amount of the ignited material at this point, and will proceed with next step........as the large filter drop has a lot of tan drop, maybe 10 table spoon fulls. 

My concern with using HCL on the tan drop, is a fear than all the tan did not come down as metallic gold but still partly in ion state?




Have fluxes, have assay oven 2110F max, have graphite crucibles. I'm all ears........

WIZ


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 23, 2010)

Wash it with HCL and let the solids settle. If the soultion cools and you have whitish crystals appear wash some more. You will need paitence to let the stuff settle.


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## WIZZARD (May 23, 2010)

Thanks,

I was going to take the brown powder that ended up on the vacuum filter, after HCL treatments, and flux it with borax, soda ash, sodium nitrate, flower, and place it in the oven at 2,000F for one hour or so and see if it melts to a button?..........I think I've had Pd to come down with brown drops in the past. You think Pd might come down as well, with SMB?

I still weeding out my mistakes of the past and the forum is being very helpful, who knows I might get it to work, someday. 

WIZ


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## samuel-a (May 23, 2010)

WIZ

what is the starting matirial? scrap jewels (white gold)?


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## WIZZARD (May 23, 2010)

> what is the starting matirial? scrap jewels (white gold)?



Ore concentrate. Scanning Electron Microscope with ex ray has indicated the high grade concentrate has up to 15% NM. PGM 5 to 1 ratio to Au.
Hope the ore stuff didn't turn you off.?

HCL/chlorox was used to place the material in solution, it is certain this first acid bath did not get all that is there. Additional exposure to remaining material is needed. The purpose of this run was to see what would go into solution and what SMB could retrieve. 

I place about 20% of the original tan drop back into solution with HCL/Chlorox. 80% set aside until I get the Au out. 




Solution is yellow/orange. The cementation of 1ML of the solution on right is a very brown/golden powder and seams to have some PGM as well.

If I cement the solution down to powder and fire, I might find that Pd came down too, and if Pd is present in quantity, I may not reach melting point of the two metals.?? I would like to drop only Au and no Pd first. Hoke said there would days like this with ore.......

WIZ


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## qst42know (May 23, 2010)

Stannous test results?

Your burnt spoon test is not as good an indicator as stannous chloride and DMG.


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## samuel-a (May 23, 2010)

WIZZARD said:


> Hope the ore stuff didn't turn you off.?



sorry, it did.
i'm not familiarized with ore treatments at all.

if it would have been only Au,Pt,Pd mix i would have recommend dilute nitric pre-leach (for Pd) to be followed by cold AR (for gold) and then hot AR (for Pt)

but ore contains other elements that might complicat that kind of a process.


what was the stannous test color after the SMB?


BTW, as a standard procedure, i'd suggest that you allways keep your solids in the container rather then in the filters, it's a big loss of PM's to the filters...


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## goldsilverpro (May 24, 2010)

WIZZARD said:


> Hope the ore stuff didn't turn you off.?



It didn't turn me off since I hardly ever read any of the posts involving mining or prospecting anyway. I got my fill when I spent 2 years in Oregon doing labwork for miners.

The last thing I want to see happen is for this to evolve into a forum for miners - just the thought of that makes me cringe. It started as a PM scrap forum and that's where I hope it stays. There are tons of mining forums but, as far as PM scrap goes, this is essentially the only game in town. The Prospecting category was only added as an afterthought, a year or so after the forum started.

I know that there are people interested in mining stuff. I would only hope that they confine 100% of their discussions to the Prospecting section.

Chris


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## Platdigger (May 24, 2010)

I know what you mean Chris.
Recovery from ores is a wide and vast subject. But still, at some point the recovered concentrates have to be refined, or really there would be no pm scrap, right?

So true, it would be good to leave out mining and prospecting for other forums. But isn't refining ore concentrates still just refining?

I know it can be way more complex than simple scrap refining because of the other elements that can be involved, and even while writing this I realize you would be one to know, with your experience in doing just this, refining ore cons.
So perhaps this post is more of a question to you, of your reasons, than it is about me disagreeing with your post.

Randy


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## Harold_V (May 24, 2010)

Platdigger said:


> So true, it would be good to leave out mining and prospecting for other forums. But isn't refining ore concentrates still just refining?


No!
There is a distinct difference between extraction and refining. That's why there are smelters, and refiners. On rare occasion, they are one and the same. 

Harold


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## Platdigger (May 24, 2010)

Ok Harold, but I did not say "extraction".

At some point what is extracted has to be refined...right?

Let's just use a "scrap" as an example. Let's use plated pins run through a sulfuric cell.
The deplating could be veiwed as a recovery or "extraction" step.
The resulting powder or "concentrates" will then need to be refined.

Perhaps I am just using the wrong terms.


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## Harold_V (May 24, 2010)

No, you're not using the wrong terms. Your comments are right on target-----so all readers should learn from what you said. 

There is a distinct difference between extracting values, and purifying values. In a sense, anything you do to eliminate non-values is a refining process, with that I will agree---but the process of recovering values from ores is distinctly different from refining. 

Cyanide, for example, can be used to extract gold and silver, but it is very capable of extracting copper as well, when used improperly. It is also incapable of extracting only silver, or only gold, when they are combined. Therefore, there is a distinct difference between recovery and refining, just as there is a distinct difference between melting and smelting. That hasn't stopped the vast majority from misusing the terms, however, much to my chagrin. 

Harold


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## shyknee (May 24, 2010)

Harold


> That hasn't stopped the vast majority from misusing the terms, however, much to my chagrin.


When I read post with the wrong terms it did not bother me ,thanks to you ,now it drives me nuts !
partly because I did not know better.
thank you Harold.


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## Harold_V (May 25, 2010)

shyknee said:


> Harold
> 
> 
> > That hasn't stopped the vast majority from misusing the terms, however, much to my chagrin.
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Well, I hope the knowledge gained has been worth the irritation. 

I have a rather strange attitude towards language. I think it should be used properly, at least to the best of one's ability. It represents you as an individual----often denoting the fact that you are either a rather bright individual, or something akin to a moron. 

I'm not an educated person, but I don't feel that gives me license to lower myself to the depths of degradation and represent myself as the uneducated dolt that I am. I hope that when others read my comments that they see me as someone that has something to offer, not just some fool that has too much to say. Using proper terminology goes a long ways towards establishing one's credibility in that regard.

What is that saying? Goes something like: "It's better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

Like Kenny Rogers says, in The Gambler, you got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.

Harold


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## nickvc (May 25, 2010)

Harold_V said:


> shyknee said:
> 
> 
> > Harold
> ...


May I say Harold that your insistence on the use of the correct terminology is spot on, it avoids confusion as to what exactly members are actually doing or contemplating doing.


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## goldsilverpro (May 25, 2010)

Platdigger said:


> I know what you mean Chris.
> Recovery from ores is a wide and vast subject. But still, at some point the recovered concentrates have to be refined, or really there would be no pm scrap, right?
> 
> So true, it would be good to leave out mining and prospecting for other forums. But isn't refining ore concentrates still just refining?
> ...



Randy,

You are always the voice of reason. My saying what I did probably sounds irrational. I just would really like to see anything involving mining somehow isolated in specific places on the forum. I do agree that it is necessary for us to cover this type of thing, but I hate to find this stuff all spread out into what I consider to be scrap categories. Although there is much overlap in dealing with scrap and mining stuff, I feel that the differences are great enough to warrant separation. Actually, I think it was originally my idea to add the "Prospecting" category.

Maybe we can add another category below Prospecting called something like. "Processing of Ore Concentrates." I'll ask Noxx about it. Although it definitely should be part of the forum, I think it should be confined and hold a secondary position. 

The word refining.

As I have always understood this word, it means re-fine or, to make fine again. Fine gold is pure gold so, in the case of gold, it means to purify impure gold. How the word ever started being used in reference to oil is beyond me. I've always thought it should be called "oil separation".


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## Nopyrite (May 25, 2010)

Harold, you were very close on the quote. I believe a more complete version goes something like "Tis better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to open ones mouth, thus removing all doubt"


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