# Elimination of Nitric Acid



## hciic (Apr 14, 2012)

well i have dissolved gold in the aqua regia I have magnesium ribbon and smb. I just put some parts of magnesium ribbon in the aqua regia. It start reaction and fizzing starts the beaker is going to be hot. Then i leave it for half hour i just put another some part of magneisum ribbon in the beaker again fizzing start after that i just put smb in the Aqua regia and again fizzing start brown fumes takeout from the beaker. But i didnn't see any participation of gold. Please help me i am struck here from the long time. I tried every thing. But fail what to do now. I just check the pins there is 35percent gold in every pins. Before aqua regia i did it will nitric acid to dissolved everything else gold and after that i didn't aqua regia. Please tell me where i am wrong.


----------



## martyn111 (Apr 14, 2012)

If you still have NOx gas emitting when you are adding your smb you still have free nitric in solution.
You need to eliminate the excess nitric either by evaporation or the use of urea (not the favoured method on the forum, rather than using magnesium as you are adding extra metals into the mix which can report in your final product.
Have you read Hoke's book yet? Get yourself a free download copy from the book section.


----------



## pgm (Apr 14, 2012)

I think you should read Hoke

try this add water to the solution this will be better.....but answer the following before you do?

what is the total volume you have at the moment...? 
take a pictures and post them too this will help with understanding what you are doing
have you tested the liquid for gold....?


----------



## goldenchild (Apr 14, 2012)

Why are you adding magnesium ribbon to your ar? Put everything aside for now and start reading Hoke.


----------



## hciic (Apr 14, 2012)

i am using magnesium ribbon to eliminate nitric acids and yes urea is not working for me there is a very low types of fizzing using urea. Should i put urea in liquid form because i have urea in grains form if i will put hot water in urea and dissolved urea in the water then should try ???????


----------



## hciic (Apr 14, 2012)

Is there any good answer of my question or what every one saying reading hoke reading well obiviously we should read hoke book but this is the best forum if some one ask you something you should tell your practical experience with refining or your idea not reading hoke or something else. Ya i know there is gold dissolved in the aqua regia just tell me the best process of nitric acid eliminationg thanks .


----------



## jimdoc (Apr 14, 2012)

Here we go again.


----------



## glondor (Apr 14, 2012)

Reading Hoke is the best answer. It will explain how to do what you are attempting in a clear and concise manner. It will also give you all the background you need to understand why what you are doing is not working. It will really help you a lot if you start to understand what is happening and why. You begin to build a knowledge base of materials and their respective quirks and issues and how to avoid or solve them. Some one can tell you " Do this, this and this and your gold will drop. But you will make the same error next time and not know why. If you learn the "why did that happen" issues, you will be learning to recover and refine gold. Hoke covers most issues quite well for a beginner.


----------



## Anonymous (Apr 14, 2012)

hciic said:


> if some one ask you something you should tell your practical experience with refining or your idea not reading hoke or something else.


I suggest you check that "you owe me" attitude at the door before posting again.You were advised 3 times to read Hoke,before Glondor (nicely) broke it down,and explained it for you.We are not going to hold your hand and spoon feed you.If you follow directions now,it will make it easier for the rest of us to help you in the future.


----------



## Harold_V (Apr 15, 2012)

hciic said:


> Is there any good answer of my question or what every one saying reading hoke reading well obiviously we should read hoke book but this is the best forum if some one ask you something you should tell your practical experience with refining or your idea not reading hoke or something else. Ya i know there is gold dissolved in the aqua regia just tell me the best process of nitric acid eliminationg thanks .


Hmmm! You're the guy that puts magnesium in what should be a gold chloride solution (to eliminate free nitric), yet you refuse to read Hoke?

A little friendly advice. You don't know what the hell you're doing. If you did, there's no way you'd have introduced a reducing element to your solution to "eliminate" free nitric, for what you did is also very capable of cementing gold. If you'd read Hoke as you were advised, you'd know that. It was a monumental mistake. Get used to it. 

Start reading Hoke, and don't come back until you understand what you are taught. If, then, you are still at a loss, maybe we can discuss this intelligently. Right now, that is not possible. You don't understand enough to be helped, and your attitude sucks. You were offered help, but it wasn't the help you sought---you waned a hand-out, not a hand-up. We don't do that here. 

Be very careful in the words you choose if you respond to this post. I do not suffer fools gladly. 

Harold


----------



## NobleMetalWorks (Apr 15, 2012)

And I thought us American's, with our sense of entitlement, were bad.

You don't do any process by recipe, you do it by carefully observation, testing, dynamic decision making all based on knowledge you do not yet have. Hoke is the very basic minimum you need to even begin to understand the processes well enough, to be able to attempt any gold recovery or refining. What are you doing? Seriously, after you read Hoke you are going to do one or more of a few things. First, I suspect, if you read and understand Hoke, you are going to feel like a complete idiot for ever saying what you have thus far. Then you are either going to apologize for not reading it before and being pigheaded, or you might just disappear for good, out of embarrassment, or change your name and pretend you are new.

There is a saying that goes sort of like this. If you give a man a fish, he can eat for a day. If you show a man how to fish he will eat for a lifetime. You are asking us to give you fish, when you should be asking us where the fish are.

If you are smart enough to find this forum, then I have to believe you are smart enough to understand the value of listening to people who know more than you or I, and have suggested over and over through almost every thread, something about Hoke.


----------



## hciic (Apr 15, 2012)

hm Great thanks for all of yours reply. I should start hoke book reading from today.


----------



## pgm (Apr 15, 2012)

take some pictures and this will help people understand what you are doing..OK

and please read Hooks

do not add anything not even urea...OK

I will try to help but i dont want you to hurt yourself...your health is worth alot more then GOLD..lol


----------



## maynman1751 (Apr 15, 2012)

> There is a saying that goes sort of like this. If you give a man a fish, he can eat for a day. If you show a man how to fish he will eat for a lifetime. You are asking us to give you fish, when you should be asking us where the fish are.



SBrown: Perfect analogy! 8) I wish that I would have thought of that. :idea:


----------



## pgm (Apr 15, 2012)

maynman1751 said:


> > There is a saying that goes sort of like this. If you give a man a fish, he can eat for a day. If you show a man how to fish he will eat for a lifetime. You are asking us to give you fish, when you should be asking us where the fish are.
> 
> 
> 
> SBrown: Perfect analogy! 8) I wish that I would have thought of that. :idea:



I like it make a whole load of sense :idea:


----------



## hciic (Apr 17, 2012)

I just check these pins and got from the 1986 xray security machine. well one of my friend is in the laboratory and testing chemicals etc. I just give one pin to him to check how much gold in these pins he told me 40percent gold in the pin. He checked pin in the chemical laboratory using machine. First he told me to put these all pins in the nitric acid. I just put all the pins in the nitric acid 60ml as i think. The reaction was started and the brown fumes comes out from the beaker and then told me to put some more nitric acid to check if still brown fumes and reaction will work again i put 20ml in the solution. AGain reaction started when the reaction finished. we filtered all these pins and some kind of gold chopper and then i put all these pins in aqua regia 1 part of nitric acid and 3 parts of hcl. I put all these filtered pins etc in the aqua regia. When everything dissolved in the aqua regia. After one day I just put some magnesium ribbon . I see some where in the youtube video to put magnesium in aqua regia. The fizzing was started when i put the magnesium in the aqua regia and i put some magnesium and fizzing started. The beaker becomes hot when fizzing started using mag well after that when i see that not strong fizzing again putting another magnesium ribbon part i just put smb in the solution I see some brown mud then again dissapear after putting again i see again some brown mud and little fizzing and dissapear. Please tell me where i am wrong. After that i put 20ml distilled water in the solution then i heated with fire. And at the end all water etc evaporate with heating and i see some brown and grean mud in the beaker. If you need the picture i will also uploaded.


----------



## pgm (Apr 17, 2012)

i think you should not have added the extra metal but that is what i think....and you might get a better answer from someone else.

instead of adding magnesium.....you can just add smb...

can you post a picture of the mud and i am going to ask you did you TEST the liquid...this is the magic word my friend....testing is everything..

to perfect the art of anything you must have testing in stages this tells you what is going on in the liquid...i use PH paper too. 

Testing at set stages can explain what went wrong..and how to correct it for next time

pictures please and test the mud for gold...

to make a test if i am correct it is 
15 mile HCL
2grams pure tin
you need to take a sample of the liquid and put a drop of the test on it look at the color of the better still take a picture...and post it


----------



## butcher (Apr 17, 2012)

hciic.
We can help you learn to do this, but it is not as easy as you make it sound, and as you are seeing now, we can help you learn but we cannot learn for you, you are the one who must study and work hard to learn.

You will need to study and study a lot; it will take time so you will also need to learn patience.

Hoke's book is the first book to read if you are seriously wanting to learn, also dealing with waste, and situations to avoid in the safety section, guide to the forum, an welcome members in general chat, and the forum in general, if you do this you will get an understanding of how to recover and refine the metals we discuss, it will take time, and will be a lot of work, but without doing this you might as well just give the solution you have now to your friend at the laboratory and give up trying to recover and refine gold and just , forget about getting gold with chemicals.

The pins in your picture, I do not believe are as rich in gold as the man at the laboratory says, did you remove plastic? I would have, the picture is blurry but it looks like some steel rings on pins in your picture, I would have removed these, they also look to have plastic pieces on them, did you incinerate them before using nitric? I would have this would have also removed the oils, I would not have added magnesium, to remove nitric from the aqua regia, I also would have not added as much nitric as you did, but added HCl and small additions of nitric and heat to dissolve the gold, this way it would be much easier to remove nitric acid, I would use the evaporation method to remove excess nitric acid evaporating down the solution to concentrate the nitric and gas it off, when solution is very concentrated add a small amount of HCl and repeat two more times, a small addition of gold would be another way I would have removed the nitric acid.

The magnesium precipitated other metals from your solution, and you must have not have removed them all with nitric before aqua regia, as if you have brown and green powders now.

Let all of the powders settle, remove liquid from them, test the liquid with stannous chloride, if you get a reaction for gold in solution, I would add a copper buss bar and cement out the gold, from solution, any powders from this, put these with powders you are saving (rinse these well and dry them), after all of the gold is out of solution add iron to the liquid stir it well, then neutralize solution with lime, let iron powder settle and remove clear salt water, dry the iron powder, you can read more about this in dealing with waste.

The jar of valuable powder mark this jar, and save them.

Now you should read Hoke's book there is a free download in the book section. The gold will wait for you to learn, but without learning you will just loose your gold.


----------



## pgm (Apr 17, 2012)

@butcher he has pm 'd me and i think i can help him....same problem as the last person you had...communication through translator.

The last person you gave me got in touch once and i have not heard from him again...i hope he is reading Hooks now..


----------



## Anonymous (Apr 17, 2012)

Hooks? Lol...I haven't seen that spelling yet.
PGM you read that back in 2010,you should know how to spell it correctly. :mrgreen:


----------



## goldenchild (Apr 17, 2012)

hciic said:


> Please tell me where i am wrong.



You're not reading Hoke and continue to go at this blindly.


----------



## pgm (Apr 17, 2012)

mic said:


> Hooks? Lol...I haven't seen that spelling yet.
> PGM you read that back in 2010,you should know how to spell it correctly. :mrgreen:



sorry mate my mistake i never noticed...thanks for pointing it out...be honest i am half asleep doing a 30 page assignment which has to be handed in 9 hours times. So i think sleep is needed. lack of sleep can effect a persons ability to spell.


----------



## cheaptrix (Dec 16, 2012)

goldenchild said:


> hciic said:
> 
> 
> > Please tell me where i am wrong.
> ...



i apologize for bumping an old thread and singling this post out but i've been reading the forum for a couple days seeing many "read hoke's book" responses. for someone that is new to the forum perhaps responding with the link to Hoke's book could reduce some of the newcomers questions. 
so i'll continue my search for this elusive hoke's book...
still loving the forum, cheers!


----------



## jimdoc (Dec 16, 2012)

I hope this fixes the finding Hoke's link problem;

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16555#p167229


----------



## Pantherlikher (Dec 16, 2012)

cheaptrix said:


> goldenchild said:
> 
> 
> > hciic said:
> ...



I just gotta:
Ok, so you've been meandering about the forum hap hazzard style. And you mean to tell me you aint, not even by accidently clicking a wrong link, found Hook's book? (notice spelling)

New here as well but 3 months here and I'm beginning to get the feeling people deserve to make you drop your life and hand them the magical money machine. I just really loved these people when I was in the auto diagnostic and repair service. They would come in and tell what exactly was wrong and exactly how to fix it and handed me the parts and told me how much they were going to pay to have me fix it right the first time. 
(Edited for way to long a story)
The point being: Always follow "all" instructions even if you don't like them.
And... There is no free lunch anywhere. No way, no how. There's always a catch 22 in there somewhere.
BS.
Open your eyes to the world and ye shall see


----------



## cheaptrix (Dec 16, 2012)

Pantherlikher said:


> I just gotta:
> Ok, so you've been meandering about the forum hap hazzard style. And you mean to tell me you aint, not even by accidently clicking a wrong link, found Hook's book? (notice spelling)
> 
> New here as well but 3 months here and I'm beginning to get the feeling people deserve to make you drop your life and hand them the magical money machine. I just really loved these people when I was in the auto diagnostic and repair service. They would come in and tell what exactly was wrong and exactly how to fix it and handed me the parts and told me how much they were going to pay to have me fix it right the first time.
> ...



actually the point of my post was why bother responding to a clueless newbie unless you actually want to point him in the right direction but i'm the new guy, this is your forum so feel free to flame my posts whenever your bored.



jimdoc said:


> I hope this fixes the finding Hoke's link problem;
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16555#p167229



thx, jimdoc


----------



## kadriver (Dec 17, 2012)

cheaptrix said:


> actually the point of my post was why bother responding to a clueless newbie unless you actually want to point him in the right direction but i'm the new guy, this is your forum so feel free to flame my posts whenever your bored.



I remember when I first got here, I got "read hokes book" battered right off the bat.

It is was and still is good advice, but I think those who have adopted the "read hokes book" tradition do it because that was how they got treated as a new comer.

I got by without reading the book just fine - although when I did start reading it, it was very helpful.

I will help you with any questions you have cheaptrix, you can ask via this thread, or just PM me and I will help you in any way I can - like a refining sponsor!

I will have a website soon with videos and tutorials for free - I am working on a youtube video that shows in great detail how to construct a sulfuric acid stripping cell, how to clean it out and recover the gold powder, and how to refine the black gold powder into pure gold - step by step.

I feel success is measured in how many people I was able to help during my life, rather than how much wealth I was able to gain for myself, a character flaw of mine.

kadriver


----------



## maynman1751 (Dec 17, 2012)

cheaptrix, if you look at certain members signature line, including my own, you will see links to Hokes book as well as other helpful links that every new member should visit. They are #1-#5 at the bottom of this post. Hope this helps!


----------



## kadriver (Dec 21, 2012)

I bought a nice hardbound copy of "Refining Precious Metal Wastes" by C.M. Hoke from Guerschwin for about $74 including shipping;

http://www.gesswein.com/search.aspx?SearchTerm=c.m.+hoke

I also downloaded the PDF available here on the forum and printed it out, put it in a binder, and keep that near my work at the shop for reference.

One page of the PDF file is missing, so I made a copy of the missing page from my hardcover book and added it to the PDF

I keep the nice new copy from Guerschwin away from my shop so it won't get damaged.

kadriver


----------



## patnor1011 (Dec 21, 2012)

Less than 10% of new members bothers themselves to read this thread - which is like explanation of everything in here, most of them skip that as they do feel that their issues are more important when half of their questions can be answered just by reading this:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=796

:arrow: Welcome to all Newbies.

To the OP - if I do have small bit of Nitric in AR I want to eliminate I do heat it a little bit and put in small piece of refined pure gold. I do keep track of weight and then re weight it again when removing it out. That works when you do have only small amount of nitric there.


----------



## scrappile (Dec 23, 2012)

patnor1011 said:


> Less than 10% of new members bothers themselves to read this thread - which is like explanation of everything in here, most of them skip that as they do feel that their issues are more important when half of their questions can be answered just by reading this:
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=796
> 
> :arrow: Welcome to all Newbies.
> ...




Harold is refreshing after dealing with other sites, I found infomation to see i'll have enough boards and things to do some of the processes, can build or have a lot of the equipment . Thanks to all of you who share infomation , and have a common view on safety.


----------



## sir_mix_a_lot (Feb 18, 2016)

when hoke says use "pure nitric acid" does she mean 68% azeotropic or white/ red fuming, pure?


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Feb 18, 2016)

There is no need for fuming acid and it's extremely hazardous. It will need to be diluted to use it anyway, so tech grade 68-70% azeotrope is fine.

Dave


----------

