# Stripping Copper from Armatures & Motors



## rusty

This is how I strip copper from transformers, starters, armatures and field coils from electric motors and welding generators.

First I would like to comment that it really matters which way the bevel side of your wood chisel is facing, when working with motor field coils make sure the bevel is face down as shown on the picture below otherwise you will find the chisel digging into the laminates.

Working with armatures the bevel should be facing outwards, and it really works best if the chisel is behind at least two laminated plates keeping the copper wire bridged. Always cut from the commutator end otherwise it makes removing the wire difficult after incineration.

For stripping transformers I cut a slit through the copper coil, all work has to be done before incinerating when the wire is still nice and stiff.

After incineration I tap the armature shaft on my anvil and the wire falls out, same thing for the motors. The transformers require a bit more work but the wire comes out easy.

For those of you with a sharp eye, yes the electric motor has aluminum windings but will suffice to show how easy it is to remove copper wire with little effort.

I do not have a truck or automotive starter field coil to show, I use the chisel to cut through one end of the coil then incinerate. once the copper wire is annealed it comes out very easy. Same gig tap the starter housing onto something solid and the wire falls out.

Remember you seen it here first.


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## rusty

Some additional pictures of the armature, after incineration the commutator copper segments come of easy. If you ever strip any large generator armatures be prepared for a large deposit of scrap mica.


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## rusty

The microwave transformer from my above post, now stripped and weighed.

The scrap yard would have paid me $0.25 a lb for this transformer whole, now that I have processed it I have 3.75 lbs of number 2 copper worth $3.00 a pound.

A good quality transformer will have the plates welded together, this eliminates any possible hum, an even better transformer will have welded laminates then the coil will be clad with a copper sheet to eliminate stray EMF from interfering with electronics such as high end stereo equipment.

Copper clad transformers should be sold, not stripped out for a couple of dollars worth of copper.


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## skippy

As to incinerating (burning?) the epoxy laquer coating, do you have any advice for minimizing the smoke? 
My scrap yard has never minded me bringing in laquered windings with the rest of my #2 grade copper, so I have never felt the need to put fire to any transformers, but I do miss out on the copper from those small motor rotors like you pictured though.

It pays to be open minded, there's money in copper scrap as sure as in gold scrap.


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## FrugalEE

Rusty,

Very nice posts and I'm looking forward to trying some of that out. I have some Mil-spec type transformers that are sealed in metal cans with paraffin/tar type of potting inside. Have you ever dealt with any like that? I doubt any scrap yard would take them as is. The yard I use is quite dilligent in avoiding flourescant ballasts, probably because they might have PCBs in them.


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## rusty

FrugalEE said:


> Rusty,
> 
> Very nice posts and I'm looking forward to trying some of that out. I have some Mil-spec type transformers that are sealed in metal cans with paraffin/tar type of potting inside. Have you ever dealt with any like that? I doubt any scrap yard would take them as is. The yard I use is quite dilligent in avoiding flourescant ballasts, probably because they might have PCBs in them.



I try to avoid sealed tar filled transformers, you have to drill holes into the covers before incinerating to allow the gas's to escape while being incinerated otherwise you could have an explosion for each transformer not drilled.

Chances are your tar filled transformers are fairly small, I really don't think they're worth the effort, just send them to the scrap yard as breakage.


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## lazersteve

Gill,

I have a project I'm working on and I need a straight section of laminated core. The core needs to be 1.5" x 1.5" x 6" (give or take). PM me if you come across a piece of one of the transformers (or other devices) that has a core segment of these dimensions.

Great job on these instructional posts by the way.

Keep up the great work.

Steve


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## rusty

lazersteve said:


> Gill,
> 
> I have a project I'm working on and I need a straight section of laminated core. The core needs to be 1.5" x 1.5" x 6" (give or take). PM me if you come across a piece of one of the transformers (or other devices) that has a core segment of these dimensions.
> 
> Great job on these instructional posts by the way.
> 
> Keep up the great work.
> 
> Steve



Steve from the second picture you can see the welded laminates as I suggest that you lay them out, I have laid then out roughly to give the idea of how it should be done the finished product core be much tighter.
. 
You could bind the laminates together using dielectric tape then varnish the tape or tig or mig weld them together across the top and bottom then cut to length.

To polarize the core just wind a bit of copper wire around it then put some juice to it, if you need to know North from South a compass will show you which is which.

If this works for you let me know and I can save some material for you to build your laminated core.

On a side note, I used to buy portable welders that were on the bum, if a generator sits idle for years or is roughly handled or dropped even a short distance you can knock the polarity out of it. And it will not generate to weld until it has been re polarized, an easy fix using a 12 volt battery and a set of jumper cables, just a quick touch to the terminals will fix the problem.

Sometimes the commutator will become egg shaped and the carbon brushes will bounce, another easy fix. Pull the carbon brushes back in their holders then lean the spring against them to hold in place while you use a block of wood with sandpaper to true up the commutator while running the engine at an idle. Just remove the high spots.

Miller Big 40's have a pair of rectifier bridges, 9 times of 10 a wire has come loose or a rectifier has gone bad, every time I pull a microwave apart and find a rectifier bridge I'm reminded of my old hobby.

Worse case scenario with the Miller Big 40, Auckland's, Canox, Air Liquid portables is a split commutator ring.


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## qst42know

> I have a project I'm working on and I need a straight section of laminated core. The core needs to be 1.5" x 1.5" x 6" (give or take). PM me if you come across a piece of one of the transformers (or other devices) that has a core segment of these dimensions.



You building a custom power supply Steve?


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## rusty

qst42know said:


> I have a project I'm working on and I need a straight section of laminated core. The core needs to be 1.5" x 1.5" x 6" (give or take). PM me if you come across a piece of one of the transformers (or other devices) that has a core segment of these dimensions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You building a custom power supply Steve?
Click to expand...


Maybe a Taser, wouldn't that be an electrifying experience.


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

Nice work,Rusty!!!!!!!....Thanks for sharing it with us.

Kindest regards.

Manuel


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## lazersteve

qst42know said:


> You building a custom power supply Steve?


It's a back burner project. A mini-electric arc furnace that runs off of 120v mains.

Gill,

Please PM me with pricing on enough laminates for two cores as described if you can source the materials. All I need is the transformer laminates, I'll do all the fabrication.

Thanks,

Steve


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## goldsilverpro

I remember an old Report of Investigations (RI) published by the Bureau of Mines concerning the separation of copper from the armatures, etc. They used a molten salt bath of barium chloride or calcium chloride (I think). This melted the Cu only, which sank to the bottom and was tapped off periodically. They put the parts in a steel basket to dip them. The report also detailed how to prep the material - it has to be bone dry, of course, before putting it into the bath. I'm thinking the report was 20 or 30 pages long.

The B of M published 1000s of these reports over many years. Most were mining/geology related but some involved scrap. Some are impractical but some are pretty good. I used to be on their free mailing list and often I got 5 or 6 reports in a month. The reports are now hard to find. Sometimes, you see them sold on EBay.

Chris

The attachment is an example just to show you what they look like. It's the only one I have a copy of. Coincidentally, it involves Cannon type connectors, which is the topic of a recent thread.


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## qst42know

Chris 

In your experience have these RI's ever gone over the same subject with a different approach?


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## goldsilverpro

qst42know said:


> Chris
> 
> In your experience have these RI's ever gone over the same subject with a different approach?



In my experience, they were always one-shot deals.

Here's a few for sale, although I see none involving scrap in this list. All mining stuff.
http://www.woodenski.com/2neat/usbm/usbmreportsofinvestigations.html


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## qst42know

lazersteve said:


> qst42know said:
> 
> 
> 
> You building a custom power supply Steve?
> 
> 
> 
> It's a back burner project. A mini-electric arc furnace that runs off of 120v mains.
> 
> Gill,
> 
> Please PM me with pricing on enough laminates for two cores as described if you can source the materials. All I need is the transformer laminates, I'll do all the fabrication.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve
Click to expand...


Hey Steve is this along the same lines of what you had in mind?

http://www.americanbeautytools.com/site/models/rs/114#


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## lazersteve

It's a DIY project I found in a very old magazine on line. I'll post a link to the article later.

Steve


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## qst42know

Want to melt tungsten?

There is a photo gallery attached to this link.

http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2004-05/melting-unmeltable


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## Militoy

I don't personally scrap out copper magnet wire - but we do send in several thousand pounds as #2 scrap a couple of times each year at work (I'm a magnetics Engineer). I had an old friend (now passed away) that made his living selling scrap - and he raised the value of his #2 scrap to #1 by the simple method of cooking the wire over a wood fire in a 55 gal drum until the HPN or HPTZ insulation turned to ash. Probably not advised in most city areas - but he lived in a remote part of the Mojave desert where a small trash fire is pretty much ignored. One of the reasons the rebuilders do the high-temp furnace burn-out is to raise the recovery price of the wire to the #1 level.


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## rusty

Refrigeration compressor cut open, since the compressor is considered to have a heavy duty cycle the windings are copper. You will never find aluminum windings inside a compressor.


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## Barren Realms 007

rusty said:


> Refrigeration compressor cut open, since the compressor is considered to have a heavy duty cycle the windings are copper. You will never find aluminum windings inside a compressor.



Heavy and awkward SOB's too. As many years and I have been installing these things I have never cut one open. But I will now. Glad you posted that rusty. What did you use to cut that thing open a chop saw?


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## rusty

Barren Realms 007 said:


> rusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Refrigeration compressor cut open, since the compressor is considered to have a heavy duty cycle the windings are copper. You will never find aluminum windings inside a compressor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heavy and awkward SOB's too. As many years and I have been installing these things I have never cut one open. But I will now. Glad you posted that rusty. What did you use to cut that thing open a chop saw?
Click to expand...


Plasma cutter 70 amp purchased from ebay, shipped from China.

Barren on the huge compressors just blow a hole into the bottom, let the oil drain into a pan before you open up the canister otherwise the oil gets hot enough to ignite and bow back at you through the cut. Also by draining the oil you avoid creating phosgen gas from any freon that maybe trapped in the oil.

I bought it mainly to open up cats, now I use it almost daily. those large brass valves ( taps ) that get thrown out I slice the pipe on both sides going into the threaded portion of the valve once the pipe is split it falls apart with a few taps of the hammer.

If the sample in the pictures had of been brass, this would have gone into my brass bucket.


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## Barren Realms 007

Yea the gas produced form the freon burning is a killer, not literaly. But it is bad.


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## rusty

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Yea the gas produced form the freon burning is a killer, not literaly. But it is bad.



Credits Answers.Com:

Phosgene gas exposure can be very deadly without you even knowing until it is too late. The most common way of being exposed to phosgene is brazing where refrigerant is present. Freon is a hcfc which when in contact with extreme heat puts off the phosgene gas. This gas can kill you rapidly if exposed to 50ppm especially if it was inhaled. You may experience tighting of the chest and your throat feeling like it is burning. See a physician if exposure is thought to have happened. If you have a leak in a refrigerant line reclaim all refrigerant before fixing leak or you might face DEATH.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Phosgene_gas_exposure_from_working_with_freon.#ixzz1Iy4HLyh5


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## qst42know

So far so good Rusty I don't see any cuts in that anvil. Some anvils are worth a boat load of money. You have a profile view?


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## skippy

I have seen a sealed compressor with a winding made of aluminum. After taking the time to cut open the shell it was most vexatious.


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## rusty

qst42know said:


> So far so good Rusty I don't see any cuts in that anvil. Some anvils are worth a boat load of money. You have a profile view?



The anvil is mounted on a flat plate welded to a heavy wall pipe, the base is an old disc blade. Red paint is from cleaning my spray gun after paint some of my Massey 35 parts. I would never sell my anvil.

I have a full compliment of chisels and other tools that fit the square hole.

regards
rusty


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## qst42know

That's a nice high quality anvil. 8) Looks to me to be a Haybudden around 150#. It has a hardened tool steel face and a forged wrought iron base. Cutting on it with either a torch or plasma is risky for obvious reasons. It will take a whole lot of abuse but to much torch work on top can draw out some of the face hardness. I wouldn't sell it either. :mrgreen:


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## rusty

Hammer and Anvil Welding in Sardis B.C. thats my buddies place across the road were looking at in the picture.

The fellow who has this large anvil out front, also own a Waterloo Boy tractor, also has a large windmill hooked rigged up to an air compressor which keeps a 1000 gal tank on the ready.

There's another welding shop in town that has a large collection of anvils displayed at the front of the shop.


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## rusty

I cut 50 of these microwave transformers this morning using a wood chisel, pulling them from the incinerator and now pulling the copper or rather sliding the copper out it comes out that easy.

regards
rusty


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## oldgeek

Rusty, Have you ever done any math to see if it is really worth cutting compressors apart?

I have been scrapping them for years @ .10 - .25 cents per pound. 

I have a 30 amp plasma cutter that would work fine to cut them open, but i wonder just how much electricity the plasma cutter eats up + the air compressor i have to run along with it?

Thanks


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## rusty

oldgeek said:


> Rusty, Have you ever done any math to see if it is really worth cutting compressors apart?
> 
> I have been scrapping them for years @ .10 - .25 cents per pound.
> 
> I have a 30 amp plasma cutter that would work fine to cut them open, but i wonder just how much electricity the plasma cutter eats up + the air compressor i have to run along with it?
> 
> Thanks



For me the math works, the microwave transformer above weighed 10 lbs, I harvested 1.5 lbs of copper. To put this into a better perspective.

2000/10= 200 transformers per ton with copper yield per transformer at 1.5 lbs Multiply the number to transformer per ton 200x1.5=300 lbs of copper at todays at todays market for number 2 wire pays out at $300.00x300lbs=$900.00

I still get $175.00 a ton for the stripped out transformer shells, at $0.25 for breakage I would have received $250.00

Some scrap yards will not take refrigeration compressors period, unless their cut open same thing with propane tanks, on the propane thanks I use the plasma to cut the grab handle off then I can hit the brass valve with a hammer to knock it loose. Valve removed the yard accepts the empty tanks.

I usually don;t bother with small refrigeration compressors, I used what I had laying about for the demo. I can get a weight from the copper off that later and post it

*Edit:
1.75 lbs of copper from the refrigeration compressor.*
regards
rusty


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## Barren Realms 007

rusty said:


> oldgeek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rusty, Have you ever done any math to see if it is really worth cutting compressors apart?
> 
> I have been scrapping them for years @ .10 - .25 cents per pound.
> 
> I have a 30 amp plasma cutter that would work fine to cut them open, but i wonder just how much electricity the plasma cutter eats up + the air compressor i have to run along with it?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me the math works, the microwave transformer above weighed 10 lbs, I harvested 1.5 lbs of copper. To put this into a better perspective.
> 
> 2000/10= 200 transformers per ton with copper yield per transformer at 1.5 lbs Multiply the number to transformer per ton 200x1.5=300 lbs of copper at todays at todays market for number 2 wire pays out at $300.00x300lbs=$900.00
> 
> I still get $175.00 a ton for the stripped out transformer shells, at $0.25 for breakage I would have received $250.00
> 
> Some scrap yards will not take refrigeration compressors period, unless their cut open same thing with propane tanks, on the propane thanks I use the plasma to cut the grab handle off then I can hit the brass valve with a hammer to knock it loose. Valve removed the yard accepts the empty tanks.
> 
> I usually don;t bother with small refrigeration compressors, I used what I had laying about for the demo. I can get a weight from the copper off that later and post it.
> 
> regards
> rusty
Click to expand...


Have you tried using some HCL to clean the copper up and see if they give you #1 price?


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## oldgeek

I may try some compressors this summer myself. I get a lot of 1.5 - 7.5 ton compressors in the summertime. I am changing out a 15 ton package unit tomorrow weather permitting... I cant wait to scrap it out $$$$ I plan on storing up my copper for most of the summer... Copper is supposed to go sky high by the 3rd quarter of this year.

on another note...I have been kicking around if it would be worth cutting out the brazed sections of copper A/C tubing. the alloy we use is 15% silver, and some of the older, factory joints look to be 45% silver. I guess it depends on how cheaply i can get the nitric to process it with. 

Any comments?

Thanks for the ideas.


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## rusty

oldgeek said:


> I may try some compressors this summer myself. I get a lot of 1.5 - 7.5 ton compressors in the summertime. I am changing out a 15 ton package unit tomorrow weather permitting... I cant wait to scrap it out $$$$ I plan on storing up my copper for most of the summer... Copper is supposed to go sky high by the 3rd quarter of this year.
> 
> on another note...I have been kicking around if it would be worth cutting out the brazed sections of copper A/C tubing. the alloy we use is 15% silver, and some of the older, factory joints look to be 45% silver. I guess it depends on how cheaply i can get the nitric to process it with.
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Thanks for the ideas.



Three phase motors do not have start windings, but the larger motors will give you some good returns just the same. Best returns come from large welding generators and transformers.

Be sure to post your returns on that large compressor. Once the copper is removed and the steel shell the rest is cast iron which brings in more money than scrap steel.

regards
rusty


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## Barren Realms 007

oldgeek said:


> I may try some compressors this summer myself. I get a lot of 1.5 - 7.5 ton compressors in the summertime. I am changing out a 15 ton package unit tomorrow weather permitting... I cant wait to scrap it out $$$$ I plan on storing up my copper for most of the summer... Copper is supposed to go sky high by the 3rd quarter of this year.
> 
> on another note...I have been kicking around if it would be worth cutting out the brazed sections of copper A/C tubing. the alloy we use is 15% silver, and some of the older, factory joints look to be 45% silver. I guess it depends on how cheaply i can get the nitric to process it with.
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Thanks for the ideas.



Yes cut the ends off.

1. Use the ends you cut off to cement silver once you roast the ends to remove the oil.
2. Your coil should bring a higher price at the scrap yard with the ends cut off and the steel removed.


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## oldgeek

Barren Realms 007 said:


> oldgeek said:
> 
> 
> 
> I may try some compressors this summer myself. I get a lot of 1.5 - 7.5 ton compressors in the summertime. I am changing out a 15 ton package unit tomorrow weather permitting... I cant wait to scrap it out $$$$ I plan on storing up my copper for most of the summer... Copper is supposed to go sky high by the 3rd quarter of this year.
> 
> on another note...I have been kicking around if it would be worth cutting out the brazed sections of copper A/C tubing. the alloy we use is 15% silver, and some of the older, factory joints look to be 45% silver. I guess it depends on how cheaply i can get the nitric to process it with.
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Thanks for the ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes cut the ends off.
> 
> 1. Use the ends you cut off to cement silver once you roast the ends to remove the oil.
> 2. Your coil should bring a higher price at the scrap yard with the ends cut off and the steel removed.
Click to expand...



Now That is a clever idea!

As far as the coils go, we have always cut the ends off close to the steel plates using a sawzall, then the steel plates com off easy with a few whacks of the hammer.


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## Barren Realms 007

oldgeek said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oldgeek said:
> 
> 
> 
> I may try some compressors this summer myself. I get a lot of 1.5 - 7.5 ton compressors in the summertime. I am changing out a 15 ton package unit tomorrow weather permitting... I cant wait to scrap it out $$$$ I plan on storing up my copper for most of the summer... Copper is supposed to go sky high by the 3rd quarter of this year.
> 
> on another note...I have been kicking around if it would be worth cutting out the brazed sections of copper A/C tubing. the alloy we use is 15% silver, and some of the older, factory joints look to be 45% silver. I guess it depends on how cheaply i can get the nitric to process it with.
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Thanks for the ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes cut the ends off.
> 
> 1. Use the ends you cut off to cement silver once you roast the ends to remove the oil.
> 2. Your coil should bring a higher price at the scrap yard with the ends cut off and the steel removed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Now That is a clever idea!
> 
> As far as the coils go, we have always cut the ends off close to the steel plates using a sawzall, then the steel plates com off easy with a few whacks of the hammer.
Click to expand...


I just cut on the other side and take a pair of channel locks and take the pieces off. I'll have to change my production routine. 8)


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## oldgeek

Well, I ended up scrapping out that 15 ton package unit this afternoon, PoP's wanted it out of the back yard ASAP!

Here are some pictures i took, about halfway through the process.

This 15 ton system is actually 2 x 7.5 ton systems in one unit. They are separate systems, for two stages of cooling.


The two metal "lips" in the following picture get hammered out of the way so i can cut as close as possible to the metal.


Like This


Saw as close as possible, or the next step can be a real pain in the rear!


continued in next post


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## Barren Realms 007

Ahh a package unit. Rust wanted to see pictures of that thing when you scrapped it and I told him that it probably had (2) 7-1/2 ton compressor's.


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## oldgeek

Hammer time! use the claw end of the hammer (straight claw works best)


See what happens if you don't cut close enough? lots of extra hammering! cut them close, and 1 or 2 whacks will knock it off.


Try to cut the Metal "rings" off that the copper ends are pressed through, otherwise it can be a pain to get the little ends out.



Well, that's about it... I take the scrap steel to a local yard in the morning, but i save the coils and copper up in a big load for the scrap yard about 35 miles down the road because we get $100.00 - $200.00 more per load than we do locally.

Scotty


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## oldgeek

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Ahh a package unit. Rust wanted to see pictures of that thing when you scrapped it and I told him that it probably had (2) 7-1/2 ton compressor's.



Yeah...

The ones with the single cast iron "beast" compressors are kinda rare nowadays, you still find them in high end units like Liebert "server room" units and the like. NOT fun to do a compressor change on one of them!

We changed this unit out from a rooftop this morning...first serious job of the season for me and my brother. I hope we get real busy, real soon. (baby needs milk!)


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## Barren Realms 007

oldgeek said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh a package unit. Rust wanted to see pictures of that thing when you scrapped it and I told him that it probably had (2) 7-1/2 ton compressor's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...
> 
> The ones with the single cast iron "beast" compressors are kinda rare nowadays, you still find them in high end units like Liebert "server room" units and the like. NOT fun to do a compressor change on one of them!
> 
> We changed this unit out from a rooftop this morning...first serious job of the season for me and my brother. I hope we get real busy, real soon. (baby needs milk!)
Click to expand...


Yea that was what I told Rusty is if were a single compressor that it would be one of the cast iron ones with the bolt on heads that you can rebuild.


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## Sodbuster

rusty:
On your transformers with the welded ends.

I always found it easy to crack the welds by overhanging the welded end on the anvil and hitting down on it with a couple blows of the hammer.

Soon as one weld cracks you can fold it open to crack the other end and the copper almost slides off in one piece without having to cut the copper. You may have to use a large dowel to punch it on through if allot of varnish.

You will get some that don't want to crack and you mite have to take a chisel to the weld seam, but the welds always seem to be some kind of a brittle nickel weld and easy to crack.

Be sure and try this before you burn them as the fire will soften them up and make it harder to crack the welds.

oldgeek:
Try cutting on the inside of the end plates and you won't have to flatten out the flanges.

I would often leave the coils in place and just run the saw down the inside of the end plate. That would leave the end plates still bolted to the unit all nice and ridged making it real simple to just pry the loops out with a big screwdriver. 

Just make sure when you make your cut that you angel the blade tight against the steel as if to shave it flush and allot of the copper loops will fall out. 

I always used a rough in blade (wood blade) to shave tight against the steel, and less likely to break my blade.
Using a wood blade is a really aggressive cut, and will cut the coil in your picture in about 15 sec or less.

You would probably have to put the foot back on your saw in order to push the saw tight against the work and take full advantage of the saws stroke. 

This works on most units if you can get at it to make your cut, but some won't be accessible, and some will have that flange rolled to the inside. 

Just thought I would share how I did some of the work your doing. 

Scraping was my extra curricular activity for better than 30 years. I lost my source when I lost my Job (HVAC Installer). I miss it. Heck if you guys were my neighbors, I'd probably be hanging around on your side of the fence.

Ray


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## rusty

Sodbuster said:


> rusty:
> On your transformers with the welded ends.
> 
> I always found it easy to crack the welds by overhanging the welded end on the anvil and hitting down on it with a couple blows of the hammer.
> 
> Soon as one weld cracks you can fold it open to crack the other end and the copper almost slides off in one piece without having to cut the copper. You may have to use a large dowel to punch it on through if allot of varnish.
> 
> You will get some that don't want to crack and you mite have to take a chisel to the weld seam, but the welds always seem to be some kind of a brittle nickel weld and easy to crack.
> 
> Be sure and try this before you burn them as the fire will soften them up and make it harder to crack the welds.
> 
> oldgeek:
> Try cutting on the inside of the end plates and you won't have to flatten out the flanges.
> 
> I would often leave the coils in place and just run the saw down the inside of the end plate. That would leave the end plates still bolted to the unit all nice and ridged making it real simple to just pry the loops out with a big screwdriver.
> 
> Just make sure when you make your cut that you angel the blade tight against the steel as if to shave it flush and allot of the copper loops will fall out.
> 
> I always used a rough in blade (wood blade) to shave tight against the steel, and less likely to break my blade.
> Using a wood blade is a really aggressive cut, and will cut the coil in your picture in about 15 sec or less.
> 
> You would probably have to put the foot back on your saw in order to push the saw tight against the work and take full advantage of the saws stroke.
> 
> This works on most units if you can get at it to make your cut, but some won't be accessible, and some will have that flange rolled to the inside.
> 
> Just thought I would share how I did some of the work your doing.
> 
> Scraping was my extra curricular activity for better than 30 years. I lost my source when I lost my Job (HVAC Installer). I miss it. Heck if you guys were my neighbors, I'd probably be hanging around on your side of the fence.
> 
> Ray



Ray these are the handiest damn things a man can invest in, you can use them for tent pegs, tire irons, chisels, pry bars and they even remove screws.

Be sure to buy the cheap ones, if you bend them using as a pry bar you can always straighten them, the more expensive ones almost always break.


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## oldgeek

Sodbuster said:


> oldgeek:
> Try cutting on the inside of the end plates and you won't have to flatten out the flanges.
> 
> I would often leave the coils in place and just run the saw down the inside of the end plate. That would leave the end plates still bolted to the unit all nice and ridged making it real simple to just pry the loops out with a big screwdriver.
> 
> Just make sure when you make your cut that you angel the blade tight against the steel as if to shave it flush and allot of the copper loops will fall out.
> 
> I always used a rough in blade (wood blade) to shave tight against the steel, and less likely to break my blade.
> Using a wood blade is a really aggressive cut, and will cut the coil in your picture in about 15 sec or less.
> 
> You would probably have to put the foot back on your saw in order to push the saw tight against the work and take full advantage of the saws stroke.
> 
> This works on most units if you can get at it to make your cut, but some won't be accessible, and some will have that flange rolled to the inside.
> 
> Just thought I would share how I did some of the work your doing.
> 
> Scraping was my extra curricular activity for better than 30 years. I lost my source when I lost my Job (HVAC Installer). I miss it. Heck if you guys were my neighbors, I'd probably be hanging around on your side of the fence.
> 
> Ray



Ray, You are right, there are many ways to get the job done...the road you take always depends on your feedstock. 



Sodbuster said:


> You would probably have to put the foot back on your saw in order to push the saw tight against the work and take full advantage of the saws stroke.


Look at the picture closer...there is a foot on the saw  


i cashed in some scrap today. I am hoping someone will post their local scrapyard prices for me.

Tin 420 lbs @ .1050 lb = $44.10 (the other scrapyard 35 miles from here i usually take copper to quoted me .15 lb)

A/C Rads clean 34 lbs @ 1.15 = $39.10 (the other scrapyard quoted me 1.35 lb)

Scotty


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## Barren Realms 007

oldgeek said:


> Sodbuster said:
> 
> 
> 
> oldgeek:
> Try cutting on the inside of the end plates and you won't have to flatten out the flanges.
> 
> I would often leave the coils in place and just run the saw down the inside of the end plate. That would leave the end plates still bolted to the unit all nice and ridged making it real simple to just pry the loops out with a big screwdriver.
> 
> Just make sure when you make your cut that you angel the blade tight against the steel as if to shave it flush and allot of the copper loops will fall out.
> 
> I always used a rough in blade (wood blade) to shave tight against the steel, and less likely to break my blade.
> Using a wood blade is a really aggressive cut, and will cut the coil in your picture in about 15 sec or less.
> 
> You would probably have to put the foot back on your saw in order to push the saw tight against the work and take full advantage of the saws stroke.
> 
> This works on most units if you can get at it to make your cut, but some won't be accessible, and some will have that flange rolled to the inside.
> 
> Just thought I would share how I did some of the work your doing.
> 
> Scraping was my extra curricular activity for better than 30 years. I lost my source when I lost my Job (HVAC Installer). I miss it. Heck if you guys were my neighbors, I'd probably be hanging around on your side of the fence.
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray, You are right, there are many ways to get the job done...the road you take always depends on your feedstock.
> 
> 
> 
> Sodbuster said:
> 
> 
> 
> You would probably have to put the foot back on your saw in order to push the saw tight against the work and take full advantage of the saws stroke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the picture closer...there is a foot on the saw
> 
> 
> i cashed in some scrap today. I am hoping someone will post their local scrapyard prices for me.
> 
> Tin 420 lbs @ .1050 lb = $44.10 (the other scrapyard 35 miles from here i usually take copper to quoted me .15 lb)
> 
> A/C Rads clean 34 lbs @ 1.15 = $39.10 (the other scrapyard quoted me 1.35 lb)
> 
> Scotty
Click to expand...


#1 copper $3.20/lb
#2 copper $3.00/lb
Sheet AL .40/lb

Todays prices that I sold at.


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## rusty

The gravy, copper from starters.

First I cut the heads of the bolts holding the frame together, then go after the screws that hold the iron core that the copper is wrapped around. Same game for he armature cut the copper wood or pneumatic chisel before burning.

There's a copper coil inside the solenoid and usually a large copper washer under the Bakelite end cover. Some of the newer stuff they only copper plated a steel washer, so be sure to check with a magnet before adding this to your copper bucket.

Where the coil was held in by a crimp, I used the plasma to cut only the crimp away allowing the copper coil to fall free.

Opened up two compressors and two starters, eight minutes.

You can also use a hand held impact screw diver to loosen those large Phillips screws that hold the iron cores in place.


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## Vinster888

#1 CU 3.90
#2 CU 3.50
Today in West Central Florida. Better rates are had in the more populated areas.


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## Claudie

Current prices in southern Iowa

http://www.pandlrecycling.com/current_prices_for_weldon_location


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## rusty

Here's a jig that just moments ago finished welding up to hold an armature while cutting the copper wires as I have described earlier on in this thread. That large armature is from a Repulsion Reduction Motor, plenty of copper inside one of these.

If this repulsion induction motor had even remotely looked like it would have run I would never have destroyed it for pennies worth of copper, the RI motors have carbon brushes used for starting with gobs of start up torque. After start up the brushes retract from the commutator.

Repulsion Reduction motors are easy to recognize they're the only 110/220 volt motors to have a copper wound armature with a commutator.

Regards
Rusty


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## Barren Realms 007

Who's safety railing ae you cutting up? 8) 

The garbage disposal in the background is one of those tht have 2 of the REE magnets in the housing I told you about a while ago. They come in handy if you can get them out in 1 piece.


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## rusty

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Who's safety railing ae you cutting up? 8)
> 
> The garbage disposal in the background is one of those tht have 2 of the REE magnets in the housing I told you about a while ago. They come in handy if you can get them out in 1 piece.



Frank that is a fuel pump in the background, I've been saving them since I found out the fuel gauge sensor contains palladium. Some Chinese outfit purchased the hog plant then the old ice cream plant. The contractor doing the modifications to the ice cream plant tossed the iron into the scrap bin so I grabbed a couple of truck loads before the scrap guy came for the bin - Me Bad.

Jack the guy that owns the local scrap yard and I have a deal, I'm not to steal any copper or stainless, all other is fair game. I sometimes work for him cutting stainless when a load comes in from the hog plant, when he found out I have my class 1 wanted me permanently. We still have a good working relationship, I buy all his cats.

I'll use some of this metal to build my hydraulic baler to make 500 lb cubes.

Tried out the armature jig this evening and it works like a cats meow.

Regards
Rusty


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## Barren Realms 007

rusty said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's safety railing ae you cutting up? 8)
> 
> The garbage disposal in the background is one of those tht have 2 of the REE magnets in the housing I told you about a while ago. They come in handy if you can get them out in 1 piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frank that is a fuel pump in the background, I've been saving them since I found out the fuel gauge sensor contains palladium. Some Chinese outfit purchased the hog plant then the old ice cream plant. The contractor doing the modifications to the ice cream plant tossed the iron into the scrap bin so I grabbed a couple of truck loads before the scrap guy came for the bin - Me Bad.
> 
> Jack the guy that owns the local scrap yard and I have a deal, I'm not to steal any copper or stainless, all other is fair game. I sometimes work for him cutting stainless when a load comes in from the hog plant, when he found out I have my class 1 wanted me permanently. We still have a good working relationship, I buy all his cats.
> 
> I'll use some of this metal to build my hydraulic baler to make 500 lb cubes.
> 
> Tried out the armature jig this evening and it works like a cats meow.
> 
> Regards
> Rusty
Click to expand...


I see what you are talking about now. It looked like the bottom of a disposal. My bad. 8) 

You will get some good material to use if it is coming out of a hog plant.

Ae you having to strap the material down to the jig when you are using it?


----------



## rusty

Barren Realms 007 said:


> rusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's safety railing ae you cutting up? 8)
> 
> The garbage disposal in the background is one of those tht have 2 of the REE magnets in the housing I told you about a while ago. They come in handy if you can get them out in 1 piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frank that is a fuel pump in the background, I've been saving them since I found out the fuel gauge sensor contains palladium. Some Chinese outfit purchased the hog plant then the old ice cream plant. The contractor doing the modifications to the ice cream plant tossed the iron into the scrap bin so I grabbed a couple of truck loads before the scrap guy came for the bin - Me Bad.
> 
> Jack the guy that owns the local scrap yard and I have a deal, I'm not to steal any copper or stainless, all other is fair game. I sometimes work for him cutting stainless when a load comes in from the hog plant, when he found out I have my class 1 wanted me permanently. We still have a good working relationship, I buy all his cats.
> 
> I'll use some of this metal to build my hydraulic baler to make 500 lb cubes.
> 
> Tried out the armature jig this evening and it works like a cats meow.
> 
> Regards
> Rusty
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see what you are talking about now. It looked like the bottom of a disposal. My bad. 8)
> 
> You will get some good material to use if it is coming out of a hog plant.
> 
> Ae you having to strap the material down to the jig when you are using it?
Click to expand...


No, all that is necessary is to lay the armature in the V, I did 6 starters with it, I'm very pleased with how it turned out. Much better than holding the armature between my feet which also required more bending.

Regards
Rusty


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## rusty

I started this thread March 26th, 2011, to demonstrate how I strip small motors, transformers, starters and generators of their copper windings, yesterday I sold the recovered copper from the demonstration.

The invoice below shows the results from the sale of that copper.

Best Regards
Rusty


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## copperkid_18

What is irony brass? is that brass with little pieces of tin/other metals on it?


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## rusty

copperkid_18 said:


> What is irony brass? is that brass with little pieces of tin/other metals on it?



Irony Brass aka Dirty Brass - contaminated with another metal. For example if you cut the steel pipe off leaving the threaded portion inside a brass valve this would be irony brass. Near the end of cleaning up the brass valves I had, got lazy at the end.

Regards
Rusty


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## qst42know

That's a nice payday Rusty. :mrgreen:


----------



## pimpneightez

Sodbuster said:


> rusty:
> On your transformers with the welded ends.
> 
> I always found it easy to crack the welds by overhanging the welded end on the anvil and hitting down on it with a couple blows of the hammer.
> 
> Soon as one weld cracks you can fold it open to crack the other end and the copper almost slides off in one piece without having to cut the copper. You may have to use a large dowel to punch it on through if allot of varnish.
> 
> You will get some that don't want to crack and you mite have to take a chisel to the weld seam, but the welds always seem to be some kind of a brittle nickel weld and easy to crack.
> 
> Be sure and try this before you burn them as the fire will soften them up and make it harder to crack the welds.
> 
> oldgeek:
> Try cutting on the inside of the end plates and you won't have to flatten out the flanges.
> 
> I would often leave the coils in place and just run the saw down the inside of the end plate. That would leave the end plates still bolted to the unit all nice and ridged making it real simple to just pry the loops out with a big screwdriver.
> 
> Just make sure when you make your cut that you angel the blade tight against the steel as if to shave it flush and allot of the copper loops will fall out.
> 
> I always used a rough in blade (wood blade) to shave tight against the steel, and less likely to break my blade.
> Using a wood blade is a really aggressive cut, and will cut the coil in your picture in about 15 sec or less.
> 
> You would probably have to put the foot back on your saw in order to push the saw tight against the work and take full advantage of the saws stroke.
> 
> This works on most units if you can get at it to make your cut, but some won't be accessible, and some will have that flange rolled to the inside.
> 
> Just thought I would share how I did some of the work your doing.
> 
> Scraping was my extra curricular activity for better than 30 years. I lost my source when I lost my Job (HVAC Installer). I miss it. Heck if you guys were my neighbors, I'd probably be hanging around on your side of the fence.
> 
> Ray




Thats exactly how I do it. Old school with a lump hammer. I use a vice I find its easier to handle when giving it a good lump. For compressors I just drill a hole in the bottom then use a hand grinder to cut right through it.


----------



## rusty

Thats exactly how I do it. Old school with a lump hammer. I use a vice I find its easier to handle when giving it a good lump. For compressors I just drill a hole in the bottom then use a hand grinder to cut right through it.[/quote]

How many compressor motors are you finding that have aluminum windings instead of copper, about one third of the microwave transformers I come across also have aluminum windings on one or both coils.

Regards
Rusty


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## Sodbuster

rusty:

About the compressors. I haven't cut any compressors open in the last 10-12 years or so. My back says I can't even pick um up anymore. But I have opened up probly 500 or better in the 30 years I spent scraping the dead AC units I brought home from my job as an HVAC installer.

I spent more than one Saturday cutting open 30-40 compressors at a time, and then most of the rest of my weekend to break um down ready for the fire. 

I remember well how ragged I would get after going through all that work and finding an aluminum winding. I was ragged even further when I wouldn't catch it and through the aluminum winding in the fire with the copper windings and drip that aluminum all over the good stuff. 

In the 30-40 or so that I cut , I would average maybe 4 of them would be aluminum. I mite need a refresher but I seem to remember that most all of the aluminum ones was coming from the 2.5 ton or smaller with the black shell. Pay attention to anything with a suction line 5/8 or smaller. I think the round tan ones (GE# and the red round ones # Trane) had a higher percent of aluminum windings also. 

When you handel a bunch of compressors you start to get a feel for witch ones feel like they are a little lite. Kinda pay attention to the mass to weight ratio when your moving them around.
But that isn't rock solid ether, You still have to cut them to confirm, only to find out you knew it was lite one

I never could lock in as to what ones had the aluminum windings. At one point I was trying to pay attention to the serial numbers, looking for some code in the numbers to come up on all the aluminum stuff. But now were talking Tacumpsie, copeland, Sunstrand, Trane, GE, ?? (spllzing?  ). We know they haven't standardized anything. Hard to take notes when your all greasy, so that didn't reveal anything.

I know the fractional fan motors especially < 1/2 HP with a sticker for a rating tag and not a riveted rating tag is very likely to be aluminum.

Just rambling 

Ray

PS: Hint, you know your going to have to pick up every one of those compressors about 4 times before your done with it, so when you remove it from the AC be sure to leave a 4-5-6" stub on the suction line sticking out. It makes one heck of a good handle. Watch that back.


----------

