# What about processing IC sockets?



## frank-20011 (Sep 14, 2015)

Hello,

is there anybody who have processed IC sockets like this one:

http://media.digikey.com/Photos/Mill-Max%20Mfg%20Photos/110-41-316-41-001000.jpg

I have a few from the 80's...are they worth a try?

Regards!


----------



## g_axelsson (Sep 14, 2015)

I have processed some via the copper chloride process. It took a long time and was a lot of work for a small amount of gold. For me it was worth it because I enjoyed it. I don't have any yield numbers as I combined the small amount of gold with some other gold before final refining.

If it is worth it for you, only you can tell. You can find the usual gold thickness from the data sheets and the area per pin by smashing one and measure it. From that you can make an approximation of how much gold to expect.

Göran


----------



## Shark (Sep 14, 2015)

I process them regularly. But I have no yield data on them. What I do is keep a bucket of fairly well used copper (II) chloride running and add odds and ends to it. Mainly I run small items that are usually considered to low to run by themselves. I will clean it out every three to six months depending on what I am doing otherwise. It isn't much, but it adds up over time, and helps to consume excess acids before the waste process.


----------



## frank-20011 (Sep 14, 2015)

Hello,

I thought, I could process them in the sulfuric cell...is it real, I mean, the plated area is inside a hole and the metal out there coult work like a farradeys cage.

Thanks a lot!


----------



## macfixer01 (Sep 14, 2015)

Those are known as "Augat" IC sockets, for the Augat company that came up with that pin design. I don't know, there may be other companies using the same pin design by now? Some have a bit more gold, up to the outer edge, and some are fully gold plated. These would not be a good candidate for the sulfuric cell, maybe better with Copper Chloride as Shark suggested, or in a crock pot with HCL? The term Faraday Cage doesn't necessarily apply, but due to the small diameter of the holes there physically wouldn't be much chance for the solution to get down into the holes or for the gold to migrate out of them.


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Sep 14, 2015)

frank-20011 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I thought, I could process them in the sulfuric cell...is it real, I mean, the plated area is inside a hole and the metal out there coult work like a farradeys cage.
> 
> Thanks a lot!



You will not be able to process these in a sulphuric cell because you will not get any current flow from the inside of the pin's. If you put them in a crock pot of hot solution the plastic can become a mess and make you gold from the inside of the legs stick to the plastic.

Go with what Shark said by putting them in some existing copper chloride.


----------



## frank-20011 (Sep 16, 2015)

Hello,

" current flow from the inside of the pin's"

why not?

I mean, when i push one of theses sockets with the prior soldered ends of the pins into a little stack of other pins which laying an my copper mesh in the sulfuric cell, so the current can flow from the mesh, trought the pins...into the inside! plated pins of the socket.
is my theorie bul...it?

crock pot is an other name for the sulfuric cell? do you think the heat is the problem or the sulfuric acid itself should be a problem for the plastics in the socket (fríend of mine stored ~96% H2SO4 in a hard-plastic Fanta bottle [i don't know if you know them, they are hard...1,5l here in germany...not the thinner ones which you can easily crush] and after 2..3 months the acid has destroyed the bottle...)

You all mean CUCl is the only way?!


Regards!


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Sep 16, 2015)

In an electrolytic cell, the electric current takes the path of least resistance. Imagine simply taking a piece of tubing and putting it in the cell. You connect the power to your cathode and to the tubing. The current is going to flow from the outside of the tubing nearest to the cathode, through the electrolyte, to the cathode. There would be very little current that would flow from the far side of the tubing, let alone from the inside, because it would have to flow a longer distance to get to the cathode. The same is true of the basket you might use to hold parts. It needs to be made so that the side nearest the cathode is very low, so the current flows from the parts to the cathode, not from the basket to the cathode. If you search for Faraday cage, you should find more information.

The crock pot method is not a sulfuric cell. It simply uses heated HCl to dissolve base metals. You (or your friend) should not use soft drink bottles to store acids. Here, they're often made from PETE plastic which will not hold up to most acids. They can also be mistaken for a beverage by those who may not know what is in them, leading to a disastrous result.

CuCl2 is not the only way, but it's an inexpensive way. You could dissolve the base metals with nitric acid, but it is expensive and difficult to obtain for many. 

Dave


----------



## frank-20011 (Sep 16, 2015)

Hello,

i know about the working of an faradays cage not for nothing i've asked for the risk of f.c. in these special case.

If i process my pins i will try (only a try!) it with the sockets too...a few months in past i have a 2l stainless electrolytic cell with an anode near the stainless cathode, the wall (it was protected by cathodic by corrosion protection, it means that it is loaded negativ like the cathode) of the cell was more apart to the anode then the cathode and still H2 bubbles at the whole stainless wall like at the cathode...not a farradeys cage but if you can see,there is a much longer distance between anode and wall than betw. anode and cathode for electricity.

thanks a alot...regards, frank!


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Sep 16, 2015)

Here are a couple of ways you can look at it.

1. If you take one of the sockets with the open end up and dip it in water, the water will not get into the small opening and fill in the space because there is not enough room for the air to escape and allow the water to fill the void.

2. In the same aspect if you fill one of the sockets with water by injecting water into it with a needle from a syringe and then tip the open end down the water will not all drain out because of the small opening will not allow the air to pass around the water to drain.


When electricity flows through wire it is not actualy flowing through the wire it is flowing on the outside surface of the wire. If another piece of wire is wrapped around the original wire the electricity will try to flow through the 2nd wire more then the original wire. Now transverse that into an electrical current flowing through the pin and you can imagine the current trying to flow on the outside of the socket rather than from the inside void to the outer area.

From one Frank to another Frank, trust me stick with the copper chloride on these things and save your self some grief. 8) 


good luck


Frank


----------



## g_axelsson (Sep 16, 2015)

frank-20011 said:


> Hello,
> 
> i know about the working of an faradays cage not for nothing i've asked for the risk of f.c. in these special case.
> 
> ...


That's because the anode is *inside the inner walls*. The point closest to the anode got the highest current per area while the furthest point gets the lowest current density.

If you would put an iron pipe on it's end in your cell you would see that there would be no bubbles on the inner wall, only on the outer wall. That's a Faraday cage.
For your turned sockets it means you have to put an anode inside the contact without touching the sides. For each and every one of them!



Barren Realms 007 said:


> When electricity flows through wire it is not actualy flowing through the wire it is flowing on the outside surface of the wire. If another piece of wire is wrapped around the original wire the electricity will try to flow through the 2nd wire more then the original wire. Now transverse that into an electrical current flowing through the pin and you can imagine the current trying to flow on the outside of the socket rather than from the inside void to the outer area.


That's wrong! The skin effect is only an effect when looking at alternating current. For the steady state (DC) case the current passes through the full cross section of the conductor.

In the time variable case (AC) the skin effect means that the current is HIGHER close to the surface but it still moves electrons inside the conductor. The inside still conducts some of the current.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect



Barren Realms 007 said:


> From one Frank to another Frank, trust me stick with the copper chloride on these things and save your self some grief. 8)


This on the other side is pure truth!

Göran


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Sep 16, 2015)

g_axelsson said:


> frank-20011 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> ...



ROFLMAO. I can agree with that.


----------



## Shark (Sep 16, 2015)

I am fairly new at this myself. I have tried a few different ways to process these pieces and keep coming back to the copper chloride method. I am in no hurry, if I was I would try the crock pot method, it works quicker. The sulfuric cell attempt was a complete waste of time, it just didn't work right. I also do not have the knowledge to explain why it didn't. I finally realized I had better things to do than waste my time on low grade material that takes greater effort than the copper chloride does. While I am waiting for the low grade material to be ready to process, I spend my usable time working on the higher grade stuff. So far this year I have had 5 major surgeries and still managed to process twice the amount I did last year, just by better using my time and improving my methods.


----------



## frank-20011 (Nov 26, 2015)

Hi,

i put them in old AP and now, after a few months i take a look for one of the glases and all the AP is converted in a greyish/greenish very hard sludge.

there whre so much sockests in so less Ap that all the produces copper-salts fall out of the solution and make it hard.... :shock: 

Should i dilute the sludge with tap water? i think that's the best way..and maybe a little bit HCl!

Greetings!


----------



## UncleBenBen (Nov 26, 2015)

Copper (I) chloride is soluble in HCl. When copper(II) chloride becomes saturated, Copper(I) chloride will precipitate out. I would add HCl.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected promptly.


----------



## frank-20011 (Jan 3, 2016)

Hello and a happy new year!

as a reminder that i've processed gold plated sockets of cpu's, eprom-like Ic-sockets, copper-bracket contacts from the gdr in ap-solution for more than 4 months and now almost every base metall is gone.
i have to change the ap one time because i get hard from all the salts in the sollution, i have to add hcl some times...o.k. my actual question: there are a lot of very sparkling, very thin crystals in the sollution, they are between 1 and 4mm long, what a salt is that?
These crystals are no problem but the gold is mixed in a white, corned sediment and no hcl-adding dissolves it.

How should i process these gold-bearing sludge? Hot Hcl?
Hot H20 or is that maybe a tin-salt from some bronze and so i should it solve in hot KOH?

Regards, Frank!


----------



## UncleBenBen (Jan 3, 2016)

Tin would be soluble in HCl. If solder was involved, especially if older solder it could be a bit of lead chloride, soluble in very hot H2O. If the white salt is voluminous or curd like, see if it will darken on exposure to sunlight. If so its silver chloride, gold can then be dissolved and silver chloride filtered out and added to your silver jar.


----------



## g_axelsson (Jan 3, 2016)

In four months any stannous chloride would probably be oxidized into metastannous acid or some other tin compound.

Lead chloride could be dissolved in hot water.

Or just take the pragmatic way, dissolve the gold and siphon / filter it off, leaving the sludge behind.

Göran


----------



## frank-20011 (Jan 4, 2016)

Hello,

yesterday i put one of the reaction vessels with the stuff inside in a microwave, only for 1 minute but the little temperature enancement from 20 to 50°C was enough to dessolve the long, thin, colourless cristalls i've describe before but the white cornish stuff on the bottom of the glass stayed in it.

I am in fear that some metal-salts stay in the gold sollution or they disturb the whole process.

I think i should wash, or better heat the sludge with HCL than with a thin NaOH sollution and than with HNO3 (after the dissolving of all, or better the most base metals in AP) to remove all metals and remaining salts...than I process the remaining gold with my other "normal" gold foils from Ap-etched boards.

Greetings, Frank!


----------



## solar_plasma (Jan 4, 2016)

If it were my tin sludge, I would not play with it, but filter off, incinerate and leach base metals with HCl. That would be the Hoke way, which is the way, that will never fail even if you don't know much about the chemistry.

Göran's pragmatic advice would work aswell, of course, but he knows what he's doing.



> I think i should wash, or better heat the sludge with HCL than with a thin NaOH sollution and than with HNO3 (after the dissolving of all, or better the most base metals in AP) to remove all metals and remaining salts...than I process the remaining gold with my other "normal" gold foils from Ap-etched boards.



This my friend makes no sense at all. I will not spent time on listing the mistakes. Just stick to proven methods. The time will come, when you can go a little off-road sometimes.


----------



## g_axelsson (Jan 4, 2016)

frank-20011 said:


> yesterday i put one of the reaction vessels with the stuff inside in a microwave, only for 1 minute but the little temperature enancement from 20 to 50°C was enough to dessolve the long, thin, colourless cristalls i've describe before but the white cornish stuff on the bottom of the glass stayed in it.


Long needle-like crystals that dissolves in hot water... sounds like lead chloride to me.

There are a number of different methods presented on the forum to deal with metastannic acid, incineration and then leaching with HCl, dissolving it in lye, ignoring it and using wicking to get the gold chloride out without filtering, decanting, filtering slowly... and so on. I haven't done enough testing to recommend one method over others.

Göran


----------



## frank-20011 (Jan 5, 2016)

Hello 

and thanks for yours straight answers!

I don't know if it's tin sludge, i only know there are different base metals (with a lot of solder from the 80's on them so Pb should be present) and now there is these strange sludge on the bottom and i am in fear that this mass disturb the process (if i directly use AR to dissolve the gold WITH the sludge).

My ideas with the HCL-leaching was that it should solve the rest of the base (from the AP) metals without copper, after this the NaOH should neutralize HCl and distroy metastanic and the HNO3 should dissolve the rest of copper...after that, so my thoughts, there should be almost only the gold.
(mhmm...metastanic isn't present, it can only exist after direct reaction of Sn and HNO3-right?)


But as yours told: first I will only filter the sludge after the AP process and store these filterpapers with my other filter papers from "normal" AP (i mean etching fingers from boards) and the filterpapers from deplating cell to process all these filters from different processes together.

One Idea is pyrolising the papers, (leaching em with lye) and then with hot HCl, wash it some times with hot...later destilled water...then process the resulting product direct with my brocken ceramic cpu's in AR.
But first storing the papers and reading more.

One question: what means "ignoring it and using wicking to "...i do not know what is wicking.
And to say it one more time: soryx for my horrible english.

Thank you and regards!


----------



## g_axelsson (Jan 5, 2016)

frank-20011 said:


> One question: what means "ignoring it and using wicking to "...i do not know what is wicking.


Have you tried searching for it? 8) 

Göran


----------



## frank-20011 (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi,

no, i only take a look i a english-german book....o.k., so i will use the fse.

Regards!


----------



## frank-20011 (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi,

no, i only take a look i a english-german book....o.k., so i will use the fse.


Mhmmm...seems to bee like "sucking" a liquide or something....is that right?

Regards!


----------



## solar_plasma (Jan 5, 2016)

> after that, so my thoughts, there should be almost only the gold.



1) stop "thinking" before reading and reading again (Hoke and the forum! not what you read on wiki or in chemistry books!) until it makes sense to you



> (mhmm...metastanic isn't present, it can only exist after direct reaction of Sn and HNO3-right?)



2) wrong, go back to 1)

Sorry, but you will understand why I say this, if you follow this advice. If not, you will not succeed and soon you'll loose any interest in refining.


...and it's metastannic with double "n", like it is most probably metastannic in your solids.


----------



## frank-20011 (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi,

ohhhkayy, after all it seems to make sense!

But untill the step "storing the filter papers" it is o.k., i hope so!

Regards!


----------



## butcher (Jan 5, 2016)

frank,
I could be wrong.
You seem to have a problem understanding what is happening and why, it does not look like you understand what you are trying to do, or the answers meant to help, they are not very helpful to you at this point because you have no understanding of what is being said, or why. It is hard for others to help you at this point, because you need a basic understanding before those answers will make any sense to you.

It will take some time to gain that basic understanding, at first is it hard, but becomes easier, as you learn some, you can then build on that understanding to gain more, as you study and experiment to see the results of what you have studied...

First you need to work on the basics, even before trying to learn any specific process, This is where your study of Hokes book will be helpful, reading the book to see how many processes are done and why, doing the getting acquainted experiments to gain an understanding of how different metals react with different acids, why some acids will not react on some metals, and why some metals in some acids create problems, understanding why some things are done certain ways...

Then study and research any process you plan on using (from scrap to final product there may be many different processes used, to prepare scrap, recover values, and refine those values, and several other processes to deal with waste products or even methods to reuse byproducts. and most important is the study of safety when using these processes, or the dangers involved, or the dangers that lurk in each process or solution your dealing with, including things that may be unseen like gases, or dangerous reactions that can be created by mixing chemicals or metals together...

I would be willing to say that you started off doing everything backwards, first jumping in to try processing some scrap to get gold, without having any understanding of the very basic principles, and no understanding of the dangers involved, no real understanding of the different processes including the ones your trying, basically just jumping into a dangerous mess, with no clue of what to do when things go differently than you thought they would, no idea of why things are reacting the way they are, and basically asking questions for help with a problem, that you basically would not even understand (the answer), if you got the answer to those questions.

My suggestion, put away the chemicals for now, and get started off on the right foot, start with Hokes book, and studying the forum, study the safety section and anything you find or can learn to be able to do this work safely, then work with the experiments in Hoke's book, gain some basic understanding, pick a simple material like memory fingers and study each process needed like preparing the scrap, recovering the gold from that scrap, and refining the gold, to melting the gold and dealing with the waste or byproducts, each step will take study, spend all the time you need to be able to understand it.
For example like the copper II chloride etching solution read everything you can find about it, until you have a good understanding of how and why it works, where it will have problems, how you can avoid problems with it, How to rejuvenate or reuse it, and how to deal with the toxic waste from it, also study the dangers of this toxic solution, and how to protect yourself from its dangers, and others who may come into contact with your products... 

Doing everything backwards, and then struggling (while losing your values), and searching for answers of how to get out of a dangerous mess, and putting yourself and others in danger in the meantime is not a good or easy way to learn.
In fact that is the worst way to learn, one of the biggest hurdles to overcome for most all new to this science, is to learn how to begin to learn, most all jump in to make a big toxic mess before the have a clue of its dangers...

Taking a little time to learn, and gaining that basic understanding. Then building on that foundation to gain more understanding and learning more on that foundation will put you much closer to that pure gold in your melting dishes, and will ensure less problems along the way, as well as being much safer to you and those around you.

Don't start off by running around blindly in circles, with no idea of where to go next.
Start this with a goal and study to gain the understanding of how to get to that goal.
It is a long journey, but as you put in a few miles it becomes much easier, don't worry about wasting time studying, this is a long journey you will actually save time and trouble, with that time spent to put you much better position and further along on your way...


----------



## frank-20011 (Jan 6, 2016)

Hello,

yes, I really have to read hookes again, not at the web like till today...I have to print it for better understanding, there are the language problem again and so it's better to have it on paper, in my hands...

Only one word to the waste: here in germany we are in the comfortable situation that anybody can bring his old chemicals, solvents, herbicides and so on to a public rubbish dump, for free. there they collect it and then it get properly disposed.

but why i shouldn't proceed my AP process and store the filter papers with the product from it?

I have processed some kinds of different material in different AP-vessels (old copper klamps with golden tips, the cpu-sockets, eprim-like ic-sockets and fingers from boards too)...often problems result from uncleaned material (rests from solder on cell-phone boards, solder on the copper clamps...)....yes and now I will process the rest of my AP-material and this take a lot of time (glasses standing outdoors) and these time i will use to study hookes again to learn how to process my "sludge" from the differnet vessels.

thanks again!


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Jan 6, 2016)

frank-20011 said:


> yes, I really have to read [stt]hookes[/stt] again, not at the web like till today...I have to print it for better understanding, there are the language problem again and so it's better to have it on paper, in my hands...


There is a link to a printer friendly version of Hoke's book in my signature line below.


----------

