# induction furnace



## arthur kierski (Jun 4, 2008)

a person who i make business with( a induction furnace manufacturer) tells me that i can dissolve the substrate (cats) (2400C) with copper in the substrate and make a copper bullion with all the pgm in it-------
questions:does any members have some knowledge of induction furnaces? i know nothing of induction furnaces---
question 2 :to liquiffy the substrate do i need to add borax and na2co3 in the substrate?i am asking in advance because tomorow or friday i will go to his industry to make experiments with substrates and if it works i might buy the furnace or if too expensive i will rent and do the work in his industry---thanks for any information


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## Lou (Jun 4, 2008)

To put it bluntly, 2400C is WAY TOO HOT.

I think you mean 2400F. I hear much about collecting all of the PGMs in copper, and it does work to an extent. Don't think you're going to just stir all the crushed converter up with the copper and presto, you have collected it all. First off, induction works off eddy currents, so it'll stir itself, at least the metal will. The alumina is non conductive so it's not going to do anything, all the heat will be coming off the copper.

There are many factors at play here: how will the metals move into the copper if the copper is impure or oxidised? How will you contact all of the PGM containing substrate to the copper? and so on.

Ideally you want to have the whole bed of alumina substrate heated up and drip copper through it as it is the most efficient way to collect the values. Even commercial outfits do not recover 100% (or probably even 95%) using copper. 

And yes, the copper is removed electrolytically leaving a PGM sludge.

I wouldn't invest in it, it's unlikely to work on anything short of behemoth scale and I can think of better things to put the $100,000 or so (at the low end) it would cost for the furnace toward. There is other equipment that will do a better job and offer very high recovery and put the values in a form easily processed. I've mentioned it once before here and once elsewhere and that's all I will say on that matter. I hate to be a tease 

Lou


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## arthur kierski (Jun 5, 2008)

thanks lou for the reply---he told me 2400C---i will know better whem visiting his industry---i did 11years ago with a reverberatory furnace copper bullion from substrates and then eletrolysing the cu bar and making a pgm sludge----i used to do 150kilos at the time and had to use as charge 150 (75na2co3+75borax)kilos +7,5kilos copper to mantain the substrate liquid and drop the pgm into the cu----the slag formed always held pgm because the temp 1200C quickly cooled and the viscosity held pgm----the temperature of his furnace might not reach 2400C-as i told in my questioning(i will know soon) but surelly is higher tham 1200 from the reverbatory furnace and will not need charge ,and liquify the substrate will be much easier---this business associate send me monthly 2kilos of copper bullion with 20%pd,10%gold,5,8%rh,20%ag,and 8%indium-which i purify for him and charge him with %s---
he does this 2kilos bars in one of his induction furnaces---so i think he knows something of furnaces----and if he is right i will be very happy because processing 150 to 300kilos of cats my way is very tiring and stressing


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## Harold_V (Jun 5, 2008)

arthur kierski said:


> questions:does any members have some knowledge of induction furnaces?


I own a 50 kw induction furnace, made by Ajax Magnethermic. It's a second generation machine, motor-driven generator. It is powered by three phase 240 volts, and puts out single phase 400 volts @ 3,000 Hz. Supply side demand is 400 amps. 

An induction furnace is a wonderful device, but it would likely be beyond the reach of the average guy. The one advantage it offers is it operates with little noise, and no smoke aside from that which comes from the charge. 

In general, I would discourage anyone from pursuing such a venture unless they were well healed financially. Even used, they are not cheap, although the older types such as mine are not beyond reach. They don't achieve anywhere near the level of efficiency that modern furnaces do. 

Harold


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## Froggy (Jun 23, 2008)

I have several local refineries that will allow me to test with there furnaces at no charge.....Im sure you can find one down there that will charge you very little for your testing.....


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