# Palladium recovery from Monolithic Ceramic Capacitors



## samuel-a

Hi guys, just wanted to share a new slideshow that i recently uploaded to youtube demonstrating the recovery process of palladium from Monolithic Ceramic Capacitors.
It only show the steps taken in the process and doesn't go down to the details.

Hope you enjoy, comment and subscribe to my channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWftjRnNrNw

Sam


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## Barren Realms 007

Very nice video. I like the filter table, cool idea. The link to the web site does not seem to work tho. 8)


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## samuel-a

Thanks Barren.

The filter rig is actually an old tower that i silced a circle at the top to hold the funnel.

about the link, it work for me, would you give it another try and tell me what message do you get?
or
you can try the other link in the description.


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## Anonymous

It worked for me barren.I've said it a million times,I need to send you a new computer.


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## Barren Realms 007

mic said:


> It worked for me barren.I've said it a million times,I need to send you a new computer.



You want to donate me a computer, I'll take it...Better be a new fast one...


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## Platdigger

Gret vid Sam, although I am not sure what actually was acomplished by cementing with Al and then simply redisolving in AR.
I understand removing base metals with the first HCL soak. But I don't see the benifit of these the last steps.


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## samuel-a

Platdigger said:


> Gret vid Sam, although I am not sure what actually was acomplished by cementing with Al and then simply redisolving in AR.
> I understand removing base metals with the first HCL soak. But I don't see the benifit of these the last steps.



Thank you and Good point.

I'v been doing just that, and came to conclusion that i'll benefit from a second dropping.

Two reasons for that:
fisrt, is to leave behind silver chloride if present and other contaminants (such as TiO2, AlO2) that may have dissolved in the first boiling AR leach and had an effect on acheving full precipitation with Ammonium/Chlorine precipitation and will be a real pain in the --- when concentrating.

second, dissolving the Pd with just the amount needed of AR so you will avoid the long evaporation precess before the Ammonium/chlorine precipitation.


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## jimdoc

Samuel,
How much palladium did you get from that batch?

Jim


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## samuel-a

Jim

This was a case study with only 18 grams mixed lot and i kinda gone wild with all sorts of expirimenting with it, so it might be very likely that i lost some Pd, at the moment the Pd is at his paladinate salt state and waiting for me to attend to...
i do not anticipate more then 0.2 grams... i'll update thought


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## jimdoc

Thanks.The video is great.I still haven't attempted any capacitors.
Maybe your info and video will give me some incentive.

Jim


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## samuel-a

i certainly hope so jim.

Part two of the process will be uploaded this weekend hopefully

Good luck


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## butcher

Thank's samuel-a.


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## samuel-a

Been busy in the last couple of weeks...
Finally i got down to write part 2 of the tutorial.

Recovering Palladium and Silver from Ceramic Monolithic Capacitor - part 1

Recovering Palladium and Silver from Ceramic Monolithic Capacitor - part 2


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## Claudie

Great slide show and thank you for posting this process.


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## Lino1406

But.. considering also the difficulty in melting palladium
sponge (without getting the superficial black oxide) the 
procedure seems to be profitable only over few pounds
(of capacitors)


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## lazersteve

Lino1406 said:


> But.. considering also the difficulty in melting palladium
> sponge (without getting the superficial black oxide) the
> procedure seems to be profitable only over few pounds
> (of capacitors)



I use oxygen/hydrogen to melt my palladium and don't have any problems with oxides.

Steve


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## Claudie

I built a home made Oxygen Hydrogen torch once using an orifice from an oil furnace and water electrolysis. It was pretty simple to make and as long as there were safety measures in place, such as check valves in the correct places, it all worked great. It ran on 12VDC batteries.


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## samuel-a

Lino1406 said:


> the
> procedure seems to be profitable only over few pounds
> (of capacitors)



thanks you for your comment.
I partially agree, it really depends on chemicals costs at different parts of the world, electrical costs and labor.
All in all, one lb batch could also turn out to be cost effective giving that mixed material (capacitors) from different model and maker usually run at 1.5-2.5% Pd.
Chasing after the silver will probably worth it only with a combination of a few batches...


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## Lou

Key to melting palladium is a slightly rich flame. Excess oxygen will cause sputtering.

I've taken straight PdO to palladium numerous times with nothing more than an oxyhydrogen torch--heat disproportionates it much like Ag2O and the gold hydroxides.


Lou


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## bobsmith

Hello,
Does anyone know of a reputable refiner (preferably via personal experience) where I could take bulk quantities of Pd bearing MCCs? All of the caps contain Pd per their OEMs data sheets, and Ive saved up about 10 kgs of the material (i regularly get them). they are all new, surplus, not solder contaminated pulls.

Thanks in advance!


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## Geo

bobsmith said:


> Hello,
> Does anyone know of a reputable refiner (preferably via personal experience) where I could take bulk quantities of Pd bearing MCCs? All of the caps contain Pd per their OEMs data sheets, and Ive saved up about 10 kgs of the material (i regularly get them). they are all new, surplus, not solder contaminated pulls.
> 
> Thanks in advance!



your general location may help.


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## bobsmith

Geo said:


> bobsmith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> Does anyone know of a reputable refiner (preferably via personal experience) where I could take bulk quantities of Pd bearing MCCs? All of the caps contain Pd per their OEMs data sheets, and Ive saved up about 10 kgs of the material (i regularly get them). they are all new, surplus, not solder contaminated pulls.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your general location may help.
Click to expand...


Sorry,
Most of the refiner's web sites Ive looked at give no mention of caps, so I assumed it would be only specialized processors that deal with the material, so location would be less relevant...

Tampa, FL


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## Geo

most refiners deal with palladium on a daily basis. i wouldnt think the material it came from would make much of a difference unless it was something like whole circuit boards. im sure theres a few that will process even those.


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## cjmarlow

Hi, sorry if any thread necromancy is unintentionally being proposed, but I've been aware of a 1 to 1 mix of chlorox bleach and hydrochloric acid is used as an alternative to aqua regia, and I don't have access to nitric acid, so would anyone have any evidence or prediction having to do with substituting aqua regia with hcl/bleach?


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## FrugalRefiner

They will both dissolve gold, but HCl/Cl is much slower, so it's usually reserved for dissolving materials with high surface areas like foils and powders. I believe lazersteve has posted some information on the ratios. A search with him as the author might get you some more specific information.

Dave


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## Alentia

Sam,

Are there any reason other than separation of values physically removing MLCC from boards instead of processing whole boards in CuCl2?
In CuCl2 solution they fall off themselves and than processing it together with foils save lots of time while doing chemical separation of Au and Pd instead of physical.


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## bswartzwelder

I believe that processing whole boards will destroy the solution by the addition of lead or tin from the solder. If I am wrong, someone will correct me. I once thought of this myself. Having said that, how much different is it to have waste HCl with lead/tin, waste HNO3 with lead/tin, or waste CuCl with lead/tin?


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## Anonymous

Yeah I was under the impression that the best way with MLCC was to soak in HCl to get rid of the solder components and then incinerate to get rid of any traces of HCl.

Then you're left with bare MLCC and you dont end up making silver Chloride when you start processing them in Nitric.

Obviously I could be wrong and if so, I'm sure somebody will be along shortly to tell me 8)


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## Marcel

Most economical way to remove MLCCs is mechanically, using a sharp hardened tool like a large flat screwdriver, chisel etc.

You can focus on the larger case MLCCs, since the small ones really don´t add up to a worthy weight. Doing so will cost you only seconds for each board.
Using HCl will result in a messy solution that has to be taken care of, plus losses due to silverchloride.
Using heat is another way, but slower and consumes energy=money. Also a lot of solder tin will end up on the MLCCs. 
I know one treis to recover in a most fancy way, but after trying out several techniques, the manual one seems to be the most economical to me. In addition it can be performed my any person (grandma,grandpa etc.. :lol: .) and without any chemicals, fume, danger and waste.


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## Anonymous

Marcel enough of the little ones do add up to a worthy weight. Most people don't get to see Kg of these things so I really wouldn't recommend wasting them.

1000G of small ones yields exactly the same as 1000G of big ones. For clarity Marcel I was referring to cleaning them in my last post, not removing them from the boards. I wouldn't process them on the boards either I agree.

However neither would I want the tin in the solder to be in Nitric acid, it makes a horrendous pasty mess. I'd rather deal with the Silver Chloride


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## 9kuuby9

One could use excess hot sodium hydroxide to dissolve the tin and lead. heat up excess sodium hydroxide in a 304 or 316 *stainless steel vessel* to a temperature of 80°C and slowly add the MLCC's to dissolve the solder. Let the MLCC's sit in the solution for at least 1h+

This should solve the solder problem, One should wash the remnants of the MLCC's in hot distilled water (x3) and proceed with hot nitric leeches to recover the Silver from the MLCC's, note that also some Pd will be dissolved by this process but not much. (if the MLCC's do contain Pd)

_*Caution*! Do not use Glass, The sodium hydroxide will eat through the glass in no time. And also handle the sodium hydroxide with care and avoid any splashing as it causes severe burns!_


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## Anonymous

It's a shame I don't have the kit to do that mate


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## 9kuuby9

spaceships said:


> It's a shame I don't have the kit to do that mate



It's very easy to acquire though, So don't worry and be happy! :mrgreen:


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## Alentia

Marcel said:


> Most economical way to remove MLCCs is mechanically, using a sharp hardened tool like a large flat screwdriver, chisel etc.



Not sure how it can be economical trying to remove MLCC from over 120lb of hard drive boards by hand. That may take days...


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## Anonymous

Alentia said:


> Marcel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most economical way to remove MLCCs is mechanically, using a sharp hardened tool like a large flat screwdriver, chisel etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how it can be economical trying to remove MLCC from over 120lb of hard drive boards by hand. That may take days...
Click to expand...


Nah not at all!


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## Alentia

spaceships said:


> Alentia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marcel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most economical way to remove MLCCs is mechanically, using a sharp hardened tool like a large flat screwdriver, chisel etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how it can be economical trying to remove MLCC from over 120lb of hard drive boards by hand. That may take days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah not at all!
Click to expand...


Months?


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## niteliteone

Alentia said:


> spaceships said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alentia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marcel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most economical way to remove MLCCs is mechanically, using a sharp hardened tool like a large flat screwdriver, chisel etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how it can be economical trying to remove MLCC from over 120lb of hard drive boards by hand. That may take days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah not at all!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Months?
Click to expand...

You'll probably quit before you finish them, so, Forever :lol:


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## Anonymous

Maybe we're talking about different things here but if you're talking about removing MLCC from a HDD board using a chisel it's a lot less work and far more rewarding than say taking pins out of the end of printer leads.

I've done it myself before, but I'll have a go this weekend with a few samples and see how long it takes and post the results gents. 

It's certainly not days upon days or months 8)


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## bswartzwelder

If you use a hot NaOH bath, and solder mask on the circuit boards will also be removed. This will expose ALL the copper traces. Could be a blessing in disguise since more than one member has found boards where the traces were gold plated.

Using something sharp like a chisel or sharpened screwdriver will remove the components. You will have to hold the boards with one hand or some type of clamp or fixture and then apply the tool.

For my own personal preference, I prefer a heated sand bath. I place a 9 inch square cake pan on a hotplate and half fill it with clean white playground sand that has had any of the larger grains sifted out of it. Place the board, solder side down on the hot sand and kinda wiggle it so it makes good contact with the sand. After 10 to 15 seconds, pull the board out with pliers and rap its edge down onto a solid surface. I use a Teflon covered cookie sheet with a lip all the way around it. The components usually all come off cleanly and easily. Any components left on the board get another treatment with the sand bath. If you are doing cell phone boards, you can put several in your sand bath at once so that there are always some ready to take out. You usually don't do much damage to the components and you get to save a lot of solder which could contain silver. Make sure you do it outside. The fumes would most likely be toxic and a little breeze will be your best friend.

You need to make sure the hot plate gets hot enough to melt solder. I use an older model I bought at WalMart for less than $20 and it does a great job. However, to reduce liability from lawsuits, many hotplates now being sold do not get hot enough to melt solder. You could also check out thrift shops and flea markets. There is no correct or incorrect method. Whatever works for you is the correct method. Using a heated sand bath does not produce liquid waste which will require treatment before disposal. Let us know how you do it.

There have been literally tons of posts on how others have approached this problem. Right now, I have in excess of 6 five gallon buckets filled with cell phone circuit boards which need to be depopulated. I know it will be a long, time consuming task, but now that I'm retired, I can do it whenever the weather and the aches and pains in my old joints allow.

Bert


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## 9kuuby9

dear bswartzwelder,

I was only talking about clean MLLC's with solder, not the removal of it from circuit boards.


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## Auchem

Hi

Does this method apply to SMD resistors? I've started gathering both capacitors and resistors but if they require different refining methods i would like to seperate them in an early stage.

Best regards


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## solar_plasma

Auchem said:


> Hi
> 
> Does this method apply to SMD resistors? I've started gathering both capacitors and resistors but if they require different refining methods i would like to seperate them in an early stage.
> 
> Best regards



I would like to add the question, if anybody knows, how much ruthenium there is in the resistors, since ruthenium is something, most of us don't want to deal with?


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## bmgold2

solar_plasma said:


> Auchem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> Does this method apply to SMD resistors? I've started gathering both capacitors and resistors but if they require different refining methods i would like to seperate them in an early stage.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to add the question, if anybody knows, how much ruthenium there is in the resistors, since ruthenium is something, most of us don't want to deal with?
Click to expand...


Don't know but this link may help. http://www.seielect.com/products/productsearch.asp?SelFamilyID=1

Most that I looked at on that site didn't have any but at least one did. I only checked out 4 or 5 of the PDF files there. You would have to know what you had to be sure. Scrap from old circuit boards would be tough but if you had NOS parts you could probably find out pretty easy.


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## etack

Auchem said:


> Hi
> 
> Does this method apply to SMD resistors? I've started gathering both capacitors and resistors but if they require different refining methods i would like to seperate them in an early stage.
> 
> Best regards



Are you hand pulling resistors? If so that is a waste of time. You can buy a billion (literally 1,000,000,000) of them for next to nothing. think about that in what the returns will be. I do know the smaller ones are better than the bigger ones.

Eric


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## solar_plasma

Thank you bmgold, very helpful. As I understand it, there could be 2% silver and 0,3% ruthenium. Since this seems tobe quite a significant amount and ruthenium obviously can be a scaring stuff, I look critically at those resistors.

@etack
They could be a by-product when scrapping boards with hot air without being extra work, but they are also weighing next to nothing, so I easily can understand, they are not worth to process at todays and the next 20 year's prices.


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## niteliteone

As a follow up to Solar's post;
Thick film resistors are the only ones I found to contain Ruthenium and it it in an oxide state, the most dangerous form most of us will encounter.

This from;
http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/ru.htm


> Health effects of ruthenium
> 
> Ruthenium compounds are encountered relatively rarely by most people. All ruthenium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic. Compounds of ruthenium stain the skin very strongly. It seems that ingested ruthenium is retained strongly in bones. *Ruthenium oxide, RuO4, is highly toxic and volatile, and to be avoided*.


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## bmgold2

Here's a little more information I found on thick film resistors. This information comes from a PDF fromDigikey. I couldn't get the link to copy. I googled for "how to tell thick film from thin film resistors" and it was the first site shown.

Here are some quotes from that PDF:

General purpose thick film chip resistors (RMCF series) are the most prolific part used in electronic and electrical devices today. As a result, they are the most widely available and lowest cost of any resistor technology.

Thick film resistive elements start with a grain-containing ruthenium oxide paste which is screen printed onto a ceramic substrate.

Thick film resistors are used on literally every type of electrical device; if it has a battery or an AC plug, it will probably have a thick film resistor. For example the average PC currently contains over 1200 chip resistors, most of which are thick film chip resistors. Unless there are stability, accuracy, or noise requirements, thick film resistors will always be the preferred resistive solution in any circuit design.


What I get from this information is that most if not all of the SMD resistors I have on my boards and probably most that you will find in computers WILL contain ruthenium and should probably be left alone. A little bit of silver and even the palladium is not worth the risk.


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## g_axelsson

niteliteone said:


> As a follow up to Solar's post;
> Thick film resistors are the only ones I found to contain Ruthenium and it it in an oxide state, the most dangerous form most of us will encounter.
> 
> This from;
> http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/ru.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Health effects of ruthenium
> 
> Ruthenium compounds are encountered relatively rarely by most people. All ruthenium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic. Compounds of ruthenium stain the skin very strongly. It seems that ingested ruthenium is retained strongly in bones. *Ruthenium oxide, RuO4, is highly toxic and volatile, and to be avoided*.
Click to expand...

The thick film resistors can't be made with RuO4 as it is volatile, the resistor would just evaporate into thin air. The stability of the component means any Ru must be in a stable state.

Göran


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## bmgold2

g_axelsson said:


> niteliteone said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a follow up to Solar's post;
> Thick film resistors are the only ones I found to contain Ruthenium and it it in an oxide state, the most dangerous form most of us will encounter.
> 
> This from;
> http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/ru.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Health effects of ruthenium
> 
> Ruthenium compounds are encountered relatively rarely by most people. All ruthenium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic. Compounds of ruthenium stain the skin very strongly. It seems that ingested ruthenium is retained strongly in bones. *Ruthenium oxide, RuO4, is highly toxic and volatile, and to be avoided*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The thick film resistors can't be made with RuO4 as it is volatile, the resistor would just evaporate into thin air. The stability of the component means any Ru must be in a stable state.
> 
> Göran
Click to expand...


Looking at an MSDS for Ruthenium Oxide - RuO2 states:

Boiling Point: Decomposes

Melting Point: Decomposes

Unusual Fire and Explosion Hazards: May emit toxic fumes upon decomposition.
Irritating to skin and mucous membranes. Oxidation of ruthenium/ruthenium compounds may form the volatile,
toxic and highly irritating ruthenium (VIII) oxide - RuO4.

Stability: Stable
Conditions to Avoid: Extreme heat
Incompatability (Material to Avoid): Oxidizers, acids, aqua regia, organic solvents.
Hazardous Decomposition Products: RuO4
Hazardous Polymerization: Will not occur

Just how dangerous this is I DO NOT know. Perhaps normal precautions like working outdoors or fume hood processing would be enough. Do your own research and decide for yourself if you are comfortable working with these parts.

I may still collect and save these parts but I do not intend to process them without a lot more study. Probably the best thing to do would be sell them to someone who can process them safely or just move on to other sources of PM's.


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## niteliteone

g_axelsson said:


> niteliteone said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a follow up to Solar's post;
> Thick film resistors are the only ones I found to contain Ruthenium and it it in an oxide state, the most dangerous form most of us will encounter.
> 
> This from;
> http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/ru.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Health effects of ruthenium
> 
> Ruthenium compounds are encountered relatively rarely by most people. All ruthenium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic. Compounds of ruthenium stain the skin very strongly. It seems that ingested ruthenium is retained strongly in bones. *Ruthenium oxide, RuO4, is highly toxic and volatile, and to be avoided*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The thick film resistors can't be made with RuO4 as it is volatile, the resistor would just evaporate into thin air. The stability of the component means any Ru must be in a stable state.
> 
> Göran
Click to expand...

I wonder what it would take for any of our back yard refiners to convert any RuO2 into "any" form that would be dangerous to their health, not just the one form mentioned above.
Oh wait, ALL forms are to be considered dangerous once liberated from their substrate :shock:

Sorry I will never split hairs when it comes to anybodies health :shock:


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## solar_plasma

> Oh wait, ALL forms are to be considered dangerous once liberated from their substrate :shock:



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bmgold2

solar_plasma said:


> Oh wait, ALL forms are to be considered dangerous once liberated from their substrate :shock:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...


That's what makes this group such a great place to get your knowledge. Without this group and the people willing to correct anything they think is bad information I would have just saved up the little resistors and tried to process them to get the little bit of silver and possibly tried to save the palladium. Now, at least I know more about the dangers of doing this and will not be attempting any processing of them. I probably will still save them as whole parts just in case I get the knowledge and equipment to do it safely or find a buyer for them. I'd hate, years down the road when the price of silver skyrockets, to think I had valuable parts and dumped them in some landfill. I'd also hate to find out years from now that I got some deadly disease that was caused from extracting $20 worth of silver.


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## solar_plasma

If you get them anyway, I can't see anything wrong in collecting them and selling them to a larger refinery, when you once will have some kilos of them.


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## cilek

I was wondering if we can get to know about the level of danger we’ll be playing with (MSDS for Ruthenium Oxide - RuO2). Practically speaking I wouldn’t get into it unless I know the level of precautions to be taken exactly. I was trying to find something concrete on it but couldn’t. I guess someone’s going to have to try it before I do then. Has anyone tried working with Ruthenium dioxide before?


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## maynman1751

> uthenium
> 
> Ruthenium, together with rhodium, palladium, osmium, iridium, and platinum form a group of elements referred to as the platinum group metals (PGM).
> 
> Ruthenium is a hard, white metal. It does not tarnish at room temperatures, but oxidises in air at about 800°C. The metal is not attacked by hot or cold acids or aqua regia, but when potassium chlorate is added to the solution, it oxidises explosively. It dissolved in molten alkalis.
> 
> Applications
> 
> Ruthenium demand is rising: the metal find use in the electronic industry (50%) and the chemical industry (40%), with smaller amounts being used in alloying. In electronics it used to be used mainly for electrical contacts but most now goes into chip resistors. In the chemical industry it is used in the anodes for chlorine production in electrochemical cells.
> 
> *The metal is used as a hardener for palladium and platinum and added in small amounts improves the corrosion resistance of titaniumin. It is used in electrical contact alloys and filaments, in jewelry, in pen nibs, and in instrument pivots. It is also used in alloys with cobalt, molybdenum, nickel, tungsten, and other metals.* Ruthenium compounds are used to color ceramics and glass.
> Ruthenium is also a versatile catalyst, used for instance in the removal of H2S from oil refineries and from other industrial processes, for the production of ammonia from natural gas, and for the production of acetic acid from methanol.
> Some ruthenium complexes absorb light throughout the visible spectrum and are being actively researched in various, potential, solar energy technologies.
> 
> Rut
> 
> Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/ru.htm#ixzz38DLt2eXt



We may have been exposed already and didn't know it!


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## dannlee

I nabbed some coated titanium mesh a while back and read up on catalyst coatings. Mixed Metal Oxides (MMO) have been deposited on titanium to make superior catalysts for forty-plus years, the recipes vary with ratios & mixes used: Iridium chloride for abrasion resistance or extreme longevity, chlorine catalytic actions use mostly ruthenium chloride (patented 1965), water electrolysis platinum chloride is the majority, to increase current density extra niobium is added.

The chlorine angle mentioned handles 90% of paper bleaching and PVC plastic production worldwide. Ruthenium quote today is $68.00 US ozt; Iridium $620.00 US ozt... Iridium is longer lasting w/ many processes but cost difference means smaller alloy amounts or thinner layers.

My searches for MSDS say if you get ruthenium dioxide in your eyes its as dangerous as silica, same with breathing it (duh). Other than that its avoid contact with oxidizers or hydrocarbons. The metal has a 4,233°F melting point. 7,502°F Boiling point (argon arc). On its own its nearly inert everywhere this side of the surface of the sun, just lets other processes boom when it is present.

And for you cowboy reclaimers... "Fission products of uranium-235 contain significant amounts of ruthenium and the lighter platinum group metals and therefore used nuclear fuel might be a possible source of ruthenium. The complicated extraction is expensive and the radioactive isotopes of ruthenium that are present would make storage for several half-lives of the decaying isotopes necessary. (four or six years)"


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## solar_plasma

While it is quite interesting to read only about those metals, they are definitely something, we have to keep our hands off. Leave it to those, who are trained on that stuff and work in a facility, that is specialized in treating it:



ruthenium
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=6638#p59284

osmium
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=19913#p202974


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## saadat68

Hi
I searched some but I couldn't understand that can I recovery silver and Pd from MLCCs with mix of smd resistors?
They are very small and simillar MLCCs so sorting them are very hard and not 100%

If I digest them in nitric and then AR, will all of RuO2 remain in residue ? Is It completely safe ?
how to deal with these residue ? Are they dangerous ?

From another topic without any reply:


MarcoP said:


> SMD (SMT?) thick film resistors are still under consideration due the fact they do contains RuO2, I know that lye or probably ammonia could trap it but my main concern is how to safely reach it. Incineration could dangerously make RuO4 and crushing will free up the irritating RuO2 dust; proper disposal is still an unknown factor.



Thanks


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## Palladium

Good to see you are online considering what's going on over there.
Stay safe brother!


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## Lou

Ru is very safe if you avoid alkaline hypochlorite and molten caustic + oxidizing mixtures. You will have no chance of forming RuO4 even at bright red heat from Ru or RuO2. 

Calcined RuO2 is quite inert to acids and likely does not report biologically in any significant quantity.


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## saadat68

Thank you Palladium 
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Thanks Lou 
So recovery Ag and Pd from mixing of MLCCs and SMD resistors are safe in digesting and incineration process.
But in crushing process we deal with RuO2 dust, So it is better eliminate most of SMD resistors from MLCCs and sell them or send to landfill. 
Is it true ?


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## im1badpup1

You could Process wet as u crush and avoid the dust, just use a fine mist spray to wash the materials clean of surfaces youre transferring them from and into.
But wear gloves also as metal salts can be absorbed through the skin. 
Theyre potentially far more toxic as in some salt form many elements are able to pass readily absorbed through the skin and blood to brain membrane barrier.


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## Lou

I’d be less worried about the RuO2 and more worried about other constituents.


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