# My first go at gold recovery from pins.



## eesakiwi (May 3, 2012)

I'm sorta new here, but have a rough chemical knowledge.

& have been scrapping Copper & Ali metal for about 12 years, most of it in the last 3-4 years.
I have been on Scrapmetalforum.com for 2 years & here for a few months.

Money & knowledge is the main goal, another 'string to my bow' & a way of financing it.

So, I had a small sack of computer ribbon & stripped off all of the gold connectors & after cutting the silver bits off, ended up with 220 grams of gold plated connectors.
That got put in a 500ml flask & 250mls HCL added, after the boiling slowed down I put it on a low heat, venting the HCL vapor off thru a hose into the sink plughole.
Which didn't stop everything around me from rusting....

The HCL got real dark green, nice, but no 'free gold' in sight.
Once the HCL got weak I poured it off & added another 250mls HCL & kept boiling it.
Now Gold flakes were seen rising up the side of the beaker & I should have picked them out I guess.. Its my first time.
Kept boiling till the HCL got weak again.

What I originally thought was going to happen was the copper & tin part of the pins would all dissolve, leaving me with a coloured acid solution with gold flakes all thru it.
Then I would filter it to get the gold flakes & then melt it to a Gold button.

Nah...

So I poured out the HCL, added more & noticed the 'snow globe' effect of fine gold flakes in the first two solutions, with some settled onto the base of the flask.
It got boiled untill I could see no more Gold on the pins, they were just a common reddish Copper colour now.
The solutions dark green, lightly acid still.
Murky green/brown dust at the bottom of the eroded copper pins.

So I poured off the solution & started washing the pins.
As they got washed, the gold flakes rose in the clean water, so I poured it into a plastic bottle before they dropped, so they could settle out.

Did that for about 5 litres of water, wish there was a gold magnet.....Takes ages to settle.
Centrafuge would be faster, I actually have one but its small.

Thats as far as I am at the moment.

I will keep washing the pins & work on the solutions soon.

I got Gold, thats what I want, its my first time & learning is more important, recoverys a close 2nd.

I'm thinking, settle out gold etc. 
See if neutralising the solution to see what drops out makes a difference.


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## eesakiwi (May 3, 2012)

While I was doing this I had some spare time & knowing theres platinum in the SMD capactors.
I started chipping them out of odd electronic boards, mostly photocopy machines.
Its nice that they are all labled on the boards & I got the rest of the gold connections off as well.
In the end I got about a tablespoon of them, 98% tiny ones & a few large yellow bocks too.

To get the lead solder off the chips I decided to eat it off with HCL.
After that I'd guess to crush them & eat with AR or HCL & Hydrogen peroxide. I have a large bottle of each & no Sulphuric or Nitric acid.

The caps got put in a beaker & topped with HCL & that was set into a hot water bath to bubble & froth.
Instantly it emmited a smell that I have always known as 'the smell of the Chemistry labs at school'.
That really pleased me, the 'Ring of Authentication'.

The liquids a real nice dark violet/purple colour, I poured that out & topped up again with HCL, theres still solder there.

The first HCL wash settled & I can see a light white 'fine glass' sort of precipatate.
And a darker thicker 'mud' that I suppose I should have filtered out as I expect its the caps that got crushed up a bit & whats crumbled off the caps casings.

Thats about where I am at the moment, tonight I will look into it again (I can't not look at it, its my SS kitchen sink covered with grey splotches where the HCL has touched it....)

Comments are very welcome. /e


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## tek4g63 (May 3, 2012)

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you should stop right where you are at and store all your poured off chemicals, that I really hope didn't go down the sink, and read more. You have a basic concept in your head but you are going about your processes the wrong way. 

This should never be done in your home! The fumes that are messing up your sink are also messing up you and your familys health.

Whith that out of the way ill give you some tips. I have some experience with processing pins, because that's currently all I do. You did right to weigh your pins but what you didn't do is some math to find out how much HCL to use. There are references on this forum that will tel you how much copper 1gal of HCL will consume and hold. I never use heat. I use a little peroxide to just get the reaction going, then a fish tank bubbler to heep it going. You don't want to dump off any HCL until the pins are fully dissolved, because any small amount of gold that may have went into solution will just cement back on to your pins and they will by all accounts just look like copper.

I know that the promice of fast/easy $ is alureing, but if that is what you are after then you would do better to just sell your scrap to a more experienced refiner.

If knowladge and a rewarding hobby is what you are interested in then put everything away safely and read more posts, read Hoke, and wait for someone to give you more advice on thoes capacitors.

I wish you luck.


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## eesakiwi (May 3, 2012)

Using red phosphorus to melt gold.

Weird, a much vexing problem with fine gold is melting it into a lump with the Gold dust getting blown away.

Years ago I heard that gold miners would mix red phosphorus & the gold dust together, 50/50, put it in a deep dish & set fire to the mix.
It would flare up a bit, but still in one peice & once it dies down the gold will have melted into one blob.

Does this work? 

Red phosphorus may be a little hard to get, snigger snigger, but in this amount it'd be viable to scrape matchbooks for it.

Seems safer than Mercury & a potato....
---------------------------------------

Posted later on.
Ok, I did try it, didn't work.
Phosphorus burns slowly & with a real bright white/green edge tinged spark, it dosn't flare up, just sits there & burns thru the lump of it over 20 odd seconds.
And its not hot, just a warm glint but it emits a white smoke that is, along with whats burning, white phosphorus, pretty damn poisonous.


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## eesakiwi (May 3, 2012)

Thanks Tec, I did store the liquids.

I wondered about the replating of the gold having seen it happen with copper sulphate onto iron a few times.

There was a few mls of battery acid & several crystals of sodium nitrate in the first wash. Back soon /e


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## eesakiwi (May 5, 2012)

In the second acid wash I added water once the HCL level had got down a bit.
That was when the liquid got a LOT lighter & the metals went a copper colour, I guess it was plating the parts with a layer of copper when the solution got weaker...
Now I know I have to HCL acid all of the copper out first.

I took out the parts (pins) from the solution & dried & weighed them & it came up as 155grams, The first total weight was 220 grams, meaning that 65 grams of Copper got eaten up by the 700mls HCL acid..
Meaning that I will need to use about another 1&1/2 litres of HCL acid to finish the run. 

So I started with a much smaller amount of gold plated pins to make a shorter run.

And also did a side run just using a finger card & the gold plated fiberboard from a car radar detector & a ceramic board from a 3phase electric motor starter.
The starter board has a real nice gold layer on it, theres a pic here somewhere.
That will be finished tonight.


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## butcher (May 5, 2012)

eesakiwi.

Here is my suggestion, stop trying to get the gold off of the materials you have now, save the solutions in plastic pails with good lids, store these in a safe place, save your scrap you have now.

Go to the book section and download Hoke’s book.
Go to the safety section study this section and also dealing with waste. 
Go to general chat and read he guide to the forum.

Study first to get an understanding of how gold is recovered and refined, do not try to recover or refine until you have an understanding of the reactions involved, and how to recover and refine safely, by reading Hokes and performing the getting acquainted experiments, and studying the materials provided by the forum you will gain this understanding, and be able to recover and refine the gold from your materials safely, that now (it sounds to me from reading your posts) like you are wasting your valuable gold and precious metals and putting yourself and others in danger.

I do not feel from reading your post that you know what you are doing, and I feel your just wasting your time, losing gold and disposing of some very toxic materials, in a way that can harm many people.

Another option if you do not wish to spend the hard work studying is to sell the scrap materials to someone who can recover the metals safely, and pay you for their value, that way you will have something to show for these materials.

The suggestion is to help you to learn to recover and refine, safely and efficiently, not wasting your time and values, while putting yourself and others in danger, as it sure seems to me your doing now.

Put up the acid and pick up the books, this is the best way to get gold.

This is my advice I would give to any new friend, who I wished to help him to learn to get his gold.


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## eesakiwi (May 6, 2012)

^ Thanks, I do need to read Hokes book, this refining is a pretty big learning curve.
Didn't know about the H2O2 thing...

Had a small glass flask with HCL & gold in it 'POP' last night.
The tapered stopper must have expanded & then stuck in the flasks neck & it got a pressure buildup & when it decided to, blew the stopper & contents up & out, hitting the ceiling & spraying HCL/Gold/Copper everywhere.

Damn, that was my nice gold there... Lost 90% of it.

But, yes, I will put everything aside & read the book first. Thanks/e


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## eesakiwi (May 9, 2012)

I have started again on a small batch of gold pins & gold plated plastic shim, printer contacts & some odd pins etc.
I'm still using HCL acid & a small amount of H2O2.
I'm not heating it this time & will wait a few days before doing anything else to it.

I had a look thru hokes book & didn't find much info on the HCl/H2O2 process.

We don't have a escrap buyer any where near here, so selling them is not possible at the moment.
Also with the small amount of computers I can get, that won't make it worthwhile sending them somewhere else.


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## nickvc (May 9, 2012)

You had a quick look through Hoke..... That really won't give you the knowledge you need to succeed in refining, this is a huge subject and having the basics firmly in place will allow you to move onto more difficult processes and methods. 
Hoke doesn't cover e scrap as in her day in the 1930s it didn't exist but what she teaches is the basis for virtually every process used to recover and refine precious metals. You really need to read it and use her getting acquainted experiments and testing procedures to get a feel for the various acids and chemicals we use and the various values you may encounter.
If you continue on the course your on now you will end up with gallons of solutions with small amounts of values and not a clue how to recover let alone refine them, do as suggested and put lids on your solutions if they have stopped reacting and start reading so you know what to expect and how to proceed. I have said this many times but your gold or values are going nowhere unless you lose them or throw them away, do you know how to test for values and if so have you the necessary knowledge to know what your seeing?
Be patient and keep collecting your scrap while reading and studying and only start processing when your fully confident in your ability to see the procedure through to the end, in this field of chemistry there are no shortcuts when you start that won't either cost you money or lots of frustration and possibly both.


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## Harold_V (May 9, 2012)

eesakiwi said:


> I have started again on a small batch of gold pins & gold plated plastic shim, printer contacts & some odd pins etc.
> I'm still using HCL acid & a small amount of H2O2.
> I'm not heating it this time & will wait a few days before doing anything else to it.
> 
> ...


May I suggest to you that you follow Nick's advice? That you " had a look through Hoke's book" is telling me that you refuse to learn.. That's going to get damned expensive real fast if it continues.

The message readers will get from you is that you are unwilling to do your part--that you expect to be told how to do everything, that you are not willing to go through the learning process. That does not bode well for you, as I'll be one of the first to suggest to readers that you should be ignored. We have enough experience, at this point, to know when a person is up to the task, and willing to dedicate the required effort. When that isn't apparent, we prefer to move on to those who comply. Otherwise, too much of our time gets wasted, and, worst of all, the recipient learns nothing. I hope to avoid that here. 

Please stop asking questions and get on with reading. Don't come back until you have a firm understanding, and you know how to test, and have conducted tests to verify that you understand things correctly. Don't even THINK of asking any further questions if you don't have stannous chloride, and know how it is to be used. That's a very common mistake--one I do not condone. 

This may not make you happy, but, trust me, if you follow the advice you've been given, you'll come to understand that I'm trying to help you. If you do not, and you persist, you risk being eliminated from the board. The choice is yours. 

Do not be lulled in to a false sense of security because you may think you know something about chemistry. You may be well versed in chemistry and still not have the fundamental knowledge that is required to properly process precious metals. Think of it as a piano. I know how to strike the keys, but I don't know how to strike them such that it makes music. 

Harold


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## eesakiwi (May 15, 2012)

Gidday, thanks for the reply, that is a beautiful post Harry.

I use a internet cafe so my time on the net is limited, I did read thru Hokes & I'm familiar with organic chemistry.
The processes of handling chemicals etc in Hokes is similar to what I have read in Jared Ledgards 'Kings chemistry survival guide'.
Thats a really great book, more into the org chemistry but he has a few pages on gold refining thru electric cells.
He is quite educational with the electric cells & doing organic chemistry with them.

I have put things aside for the moment, it stores easily, theres one beaker with HCL/peroxide with gold films & scrap that is being digested at room temp just to see how it goes in the long run.
The Peroxide I was using is 33%+ I got a bit worried when it turned the solution black almost instantly with a few drops.

Since I only have 40 computers (hard to get here) I won't be doing any more experimenting for a few months, in that time I will gain more info & get a copy of hokes's book may even buy lasers CD's. Tahnks/e


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## glorycloud (May 15, 2012)

Now that is a first for me on the forum. Someone referred
to Harold as "Harry". :shock: 

Instant banning potential there amigo. :lol: :lol:


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## Geo (May 15, 2012)

Harold pulls out the wand and "swish and flick"

ok, so im a harry potter fan. :lol:


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## Harold_V (May 16, 2012)

glorycloud said:


> Now that is a first for me on the forum. Someone referred
> to Harold as "Harry". :shock:
> 
> Instant banning potential there amigo. :lol: :lol:


Chuckle!

No offense taken. In fact, all my old friends refer to me as Harry (or The Greek).

Harold


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## eesakiwi (Aug 3, 2012)

I chuckle at the 'Harry' quote too.

It started with a comedy routine by a Aussie 'Rodney Rude'.






He has a character 'Harry Muff' & it went from there.... We adopted the 'Harry theory' & take a 'Harry on' whenever possible.

I got my car exhaust system done at "Harolds exhaust systems'.
'couse its a 'Harry Muffler'
I have a 'Harry' lawnmower, its a Harry Moa (Moa's a extinct flightless bird from NZ)
I have a pair of 'Harry Muff's' (ear muffs)
A 'bad' Cop is a 'Dirty Harry'
A good rock singer is 'Debbie Harry' (she really is good too)

And when I need a scientist, he's 'Harry, he likes beer but cup never over flows'....
(& who gets that joke?..hehe)
& it keeps going on, 15 years now.

I have a pic that Harold will split his sides larfin at, I will get it on here soon.


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## eesakiwi (Aug 3, 2012)

I have learnt a lot since finding 'Goldrefiningforum', actually its been 1/2 unlearning what I'd learnt wrong to start with.....

Whats happened since? Heres what.

I find I needed a LOT more HCL acid to dissolve all of the pins.
When I boil the solution (inc H2O2) to make it dissolve more copper, it dissolves Gold.
But when the solution cools down, it plates the remaining copper with brown coloured gold.
Which makes it impossible to start the reaction off again with new acid.... Arh!
Adding H2O2 to a HCL/copper reaction turns it black, too much oxidiser. But I'm not sure why it dosn't do it when theres no copper.
---

So, I. Added more HCL to the pins & kept on doing it.
I ended up with 4 litres of Saturated Copper/HCL solution which I have added copper to so it will drop any Gold out.

The gold flake I filtered out & the brown sediment from the HCL solution were boiled in 33% HCL, washed, boiled in HCL/dilute H2O2, washed & dried.

That was dissolved in HCL/H2O2 - 65/35%.
Considering the time it took to dissolve the copper, dissolving the golds real quick...
Now I have 550mls of a light green/goldish solution containing Gold.
Dunno how much Gold.

Since I had only sodium sulphite (its NOT the same dammit!) I had to wait a week for 'sodium meta BI sulphite'.

I added 30mls of the AP/Au solution to my sediment funnel
(Its a 50mls, 150mm tall thin glass vase thats got a very sharp conical point inside it. 
My real sediment funnel is actually a proper 1Litre 'dunces hat' shaped conical flask)
I added the SMB, 1/4 a spoonfull.....ARRRhh!
Solution turns clear, 'arrhh shooooot!' No Gold..

Later, I see a brown sediment in the bottom of the flask & the solutions turned a very light blue.
Which is what I read of someones post here yesterday, interesting, same result.
I know the brown sediment is Gold, thats good news.

Today, since I remember reading that the SMB should have a 'sulphur sorta' smell to it when its fresh.
I sniff it & its a bland no-smell.
So I empty the flask & add 1/2 teaspoon SMB & top it up slowly with AP/Gold solution.
It reacts, I didn't see that yesterday.
I come back & the inside of the flask is Gold plated.
GOLD plated!!

Didn't expect that to happen. I scrape it off & add it to the brown precipate.

---------------
Now, I get the rest of the 500mls & filter it again, keeping the sediment.

I add 1 gram SMB, for some reason I think the amount of SMB should be the same as what I expect the gold amount should be. Dunno Y.

Nothing happens, so I add more, & more, & even, more.

Up to about 30 grams, nothing changes.
I heat the solution to warm, pour some off, add SMB to that, get a different result, pour that into the solution, nothing.

I let it sit, hmm, better, now theres a sediment, let it cool, better sediment.

Nothing more, heat it up, less sediment, add SMB, boils with reaction. Ugh.

Let it cool, sediment, add SMB, reaction-boil.
Add more SMB, sediment, warm it up, reaction, browner solution, more sediment.
I'm sorta relising the gas the SMB gives off (which smells exactly like a house I once lived in, just a LOT stronger) drives off the Gold.

So I cool the solution right down, keep adding SMB, more & more.
Then I slowly warm it up, so the bubbles start at the bottom. 

This is now what I want, lotsa sediment, took about <100grams SMB..!?

Gotta go now. Back tomorrow/e


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## eesakiwi (Aug 6, 2012)

So I let it sit for a while & its slowly dropping the brown powder out.
I had a misshap on Sunday, heard my cat yeowing at another cat, inside, oh as I know it can't get out....
So I run up to the kitchen, to find my cats bailed another up, it makes a runfor the sun (window) where my gold in a flask is sitting, takes it & a bunch of other stuff out, glass everywhere & theres that 'acidic bubbling' sound all over the bench....
Looking hard I find the gold flask broken on the floor with liquid running out of it. After chucking the cats out, I find everything, suck up what could & fingure out thgeres not much of a loss.
I had a CC of powder & still have 90% of it.

After the solids seperated from the solution it seems like I didn't loose anything after all, not what I expected.
So the Golds as good as gold.

I'm missing some info about using SMB to drop the Gold out of Acid/con H2O2. Dunno, the solutions still a light brown, getting clearer but not clear, or quick. I put it in a 250mls measuing flask, very tall & 1 1/2 inch OD.

100gms SMB on a gram of Gold? no way....

I have run out of HCL acid, its expensive here.
A 20Litre costs NZ$120+.
Thats over US$100 for 5 gallons.

I have;
50+gms Silver contacts
90gms Silver/Copper contacts
20gms Silver/Iron contacts
73gms Tanti SMD caps
60 computers, scrapped down to MB's, CPU, Memory & odd bodds.

After sorting out this lot of Gold, I think I will do the computers.
Theres not enough of them & they are too varied & I'm just not getting them fast enough to make a income off them.

So I decided that if I just use them for education, I might be able to l;earn & meet up with someone who wants me to teach them what I know, & take a 50% cut of their 120 computers..... They pay the costs too.

I can't find Tin in NZ, weird.
No lead free solder, jewelers don't use it, fishing shops don't have lead free sinkers, its not on TradeMe.


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## eesakiwi (May 29, 2013)

I found this a while ago & have just put the pic up.





I'd found it in a carpark & took it home, where it sat in a jar of pens for a few years.
Then one day I noticed the silver nailpolish bottle beside it & decided to change it from 'B' to 'H'.
Then I started on the second line & once I has 'Ass' I knew I was set.


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