# Building my Foundry/Smelter



## mbrolin (Dec 9, 2019)

Hello All. Started building my Foundry this weekend. Did not get as far as I had planned at all. Here is my plan for building the forge. First the items for the foundry. Links are for the items I bought to use.

1. 6 Gallon Metal Trash Can - https://www.menards.com/main/storag...0-c-12666.htm?tid=-9069106531470410072&ipos=3
2. Ceramic Fiber Blanket 2600F - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072HYLHW5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3. Meeco's Red Devil Castable Refractory Cement - https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...4062365878.htm?tid=2432698242023709435&ipos=1
4. ITC-100HT Refactory Coating Heat Reflection and Protection refractory Coating https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWI8V0G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
5. Hight Temerature Thermocouple - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0711BKPJG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
6. High Temperature Thermocouple Ceramic Protective Cover - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XKK7ZPQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
7. 8" concrete form https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...59-c-5653.htm?tid=-6155191908448751693&ipos=1

The basic plan is to line the trashcan and lid with the Ceramic blanket. Cut holes for the burner and thermalcouple, and top of the lid. The burner and thermalcouple wholes will also go into the concrete form which will be used for the keeping the same of the center. Make cardboard tubes to stick through the holes for the thermal couple and burner into the 8" form. Also a cardboard from for the whole in the lid. Then fill the bottom to about 1" of refractory. Then put in the 8" form and fill the rest of the way with refractory around the form and cardboard tubes. Also putting the refractory on the lid. Once the refractory is dried, coat the refractory and any exposed ceramic wool with the ITC-100HT coating with a couple of thick coats. Once all is dry break the the foundry. If can't pull out the cardboard forms, will probably have to burn the cardboard forms out. Then to more ITC-100HT coatings for the areas covered by the cardboard. 

I got to start on the furnace this weekend and will show my progress and the problems encountered. All thoughts and suggestions appreciated. Will have questions along the way. Thanks all.


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## mbrolin (Dec 9, 2019)

Weekend's progress on building the foundry. It is definitely not as easy or quick as it looks watching YouTube videos when building these. I'm guessing that goes for just about anything.  Hence, I did not get as far as I wanted to at all. Got the inside of the bucket and lid lined with the ceramic wool. Here are some pictures of that. Only problem with this part was a little one, getting the wool for the foundry sides to fit and cover all of it. Since the diameter gets bigger as you go up, the top has to be longer than the bottom Was a little tricky. Had to cut some filler pieces to jam in the gaps. Also in my original plan, I had plan to coat all of the wool at this stage with the ITC-100HT. But decided not too, expensive and didn't want to run out. Since most of it will be covered with the refractory, it would mostly be a waste. Also testing posting pictures here for the first time. Let's hope they show up.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/318x564q90/923/lgKAAq.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/820x462q90/922/EZNu43.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/820x462q90/921/C46Voy.jpg


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## mbrolin (Dec 9, 2019)

Next step was to drill the holes. For the lid,I first removed the handle. After doing this, I had two slits, a little over 4" inches apart, in the top from where the handle was attached. I decided to use this as the diameter for the hole on top. I hope it isn't too big for the furnace. I didn't have a whole saw this big, so cut the whole in the lid with a dremel tool and cutoff head. Once done with that, sanded the edges with the dremel sand drum. Then just used utility knife to cut the ceramic wool. Probably need to trim a little more off. After done with this, I had the brilliant idea to weld the handle to the top side of the lid. Got a welder a couple of weeks ago and been waiting to use it. And I have never welded anything before. Well the metal is way too then to weld it. Burned some nice holes through it. But the handle is attached, seems sturdy enough. For the handle on the other side, decided to go with a U bolt. Have to pick one up at the hardware store this week. Many trips to the hardware store on these projects. And it is so hard not to look at a several other items you didn't plan too also.  

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/820x462q90/923/Y58C3Z.jpg


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## mbrolin (Dec 9, 2019)

After getting the ceramic wool into the trash can, measured to see how big the burn chamber I could get. Saw 8" inches was the biggest. Grabbed the 8" concrete pillar form at the hardware store. Centered the 8" form into the foundry, then determined where to drill the hole for the Burner. I did 2 inches above the current level of the ceramic wool. 1 inch for refractory and 1 inch for play. The burner will be 1 inch pipe. This was a easy whole to drill as I had a hole saw bit for this size that works on metal, 1 1/2" is what I needed to fit 1" iron pipe. Drilled through the Trashcan, ceramic fiber, and Concrete form. Next was drilling the whole for the thermocouple. This I did not have a hole saw bit to fit this size. Tried it with spade drill bit. This was a mistake. As soon as I got through the metal of the can, it was not solid enough and beat the whole in the can up real bad. Finished the rest of it with a regular drill bit since all that was left was the cardboard form tube. Next I created tubes out of spare cardboard to make my own forms, and fit in the drilled holes from trashcan to cardboard form. This way when the refractory cement is poured the holes will keep. Will need to do the same for the lid. 

Problems from this. One, will need to do some grinding/sanding on the whole for the thermocouple. The spade bit tore it up and metal is sticking out. Second big problem is when drilling the wholes for the burner and thermocouple into the cardboard form, the form was sitting on the bottom of the can, on top of the ceramic wool. I needed it to be about 1 inch above this. Wanted the bottom of the foundry to be a solid 1 inch. Holes are already drilled into the form for the burner and and thermocoupling, thinking of putting 2 dowel rods through the top at current level so the dowels set on the lip of the foundry, and cut the 1 inch off the bottom of the form. It will align with the other holes and be 1 inch off the bottom and hang. What are your guys thoughts?

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/820x462q90/924/snYY3E.jpg


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## mbrolin (Dec 9, 2019)

The burn chamber on this foundry should have a circumference of 8" inches, probably a little bigger when you take in account the thickness of the cardboard form. The height will be about 9" inches, maybe 10". What is the biggest crucible I could use in this foundry do you think?

For burners, I will probably buy a propane burner off ebay or amazon for the right now. But I will also make a a burner for waste oil. Plan on building the "HotShot" oil burner on Backyard metal casting sight. Want to use both waste oil and propane. Link below.

https://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/oilburners10.html


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 9, 2019)

mbrolin said:


> The burn chamber on this foundry should have a circumference of 8" inches, probably a little bigger when you take in account the thickness of the cardboard form. The height will be about 9" inches, maybe 10". What is the biggest crucible I could use in this foundry do you think?



When you buy your cardboard form, you'll find that the size is approximate. In the 8" size, for example, there are usually 3 sizes in that category. They nest inside each other so they take up less space in shipping and on the shelf. So the smallest is less than 8", the medium is about 8", and the largest is a little over 8". Just the kind of stuff you discover when you rehab houses and work with this stuff. Choose what suits you best.

Dave


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## kurtak (Dec 10, 2019)

Matt

You are "not" building a foundry - you are building a furnace

A foundry is a "place" were you do foundry work such as a "factory" --- so the foundry includes the building in which you do the foundry work as well as all other equipment &/or tools that go along with doing foundry work (such as crucibles, molds, tongs, grinders, polishers, fume hoods working benches &/or tables etc. - & in "large" foundries would include things like fork lifts, cranes etc.) --- the "furnace" is just "one" piece of equipment - in - the foundry

Foundry work - is where you "melt' pure metals or metal alloys - cast (pour) the molten metal to molds (the casting) & then do the work on the casting like grinding off rough edges & polishing the casting to a finished product

in other words - the barn that you are setting up in - along with all other equipment & tools is your foundry & you are building a "furnace" as - one - piece of equipment - to go - in - your foundry

As I said in my other post in your other thread - a smelter is a "place" like a foundry - except that they do "smelting" of metals instead of "melting" of metals

Smelting is a process of separating metals from non-metals at a high (melting point) temp along with the use of fluxing where in the non-metal part goes off in the flux - as slag - thereby separating the non-metal from the metal 

Smelting involves high temp chemistry depending on the material you are smelting & the flux ingredients used to get the non-metals to go off in the slag & thereby separated the metal from the non-metal --- depending on flux chemistry - to some degree - you can also separate "some" metals from other metals

So - a smelter is also a "place" where smelting is done --- like in the foundry - the "furnace" is "one" piece of equipment in the smelter

Therefore the furnace you are building can be used for melting (foundry work) - or - smelting (smelter work) --- so the furnace is NOT the foundry - nor is it the smelter --- it is the piece of equipment that can preform ether one &/or both task

Kurt


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## kurtak (Dec 10, 2019)

Matt

To clarify - a foundry is generally a place "dedicated" to foundry work - a smelter is generally a place "dedicated" to smelting work

What you are doing is working on a hobby level - as a hobby - you are putting together "a shop" - the furnace you are building is one piece of equipment for your shop

you will likely be using that furnace for both melting & smelting

Therefore - as you move forward in your hobby & you do work with your furnace proper reference to that work would be something like --- today out in the shop I used my furnace to "melt" some metal - or - today out in the shop I used my furnace to do some smelting

Kurt


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## mbrolin (Dec 10, 2019)

FrugalRefiner said:


> When you buy your cardboard form, you'll find that the size is approximate. In the 8" size, for example, there are usually 3 sizes in that category. They nest inside each other so they take up less space in shipping and on the shelf. So the smallest is less than 8", the medium is about 8", and the largest is a little over 8". Just the kind of stuff you discover when you rehab houses and work with this stuff. Choose what suits you best.
> 
> Dave



Thanks, that is good to know. Will have to measure it to see where mine fits in.


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## mbrolin (Dec 10, 2019)

kurtak said:


> Matt
> 
> To clarify - a foundry is generally a place "dedicated" to foundry work - a smelter is generally a place "dedicated" to smelting work
> 
> ...


OK, I see now what you mean. All references will now say furnace. I do like your method for pyrolysis and incinerating your chips with your furnace.


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## kurtak (Dec 12, 2019)

mbrolin said:


> I do like your method for pyrolysis and incinerating your chips with your furnace.



It's good to see that you are doing your research  

Kurt


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## mbrolin (Dec 17, 2019)

Did more work on the furnace over the weekend. Got a U bolt for a second handle on the lid. Didn't get a picture of of that. Decided to add hardware cloth where the refractory will be poured to give it support Did this to the furnace walls and bottom, along with the lid. Also for the lid I put in 4 screws to give refractory more to hold onto. 





After getting getting the hardware cloth in, it was finally time to mix and pour the refractory. Had a problem here. The one 25 lbs container was not enough for it. It ended up only filling about 3/4 of the furnace. Had to make a quick trip to Menards to buy some more. But in the end I got both the furnace and lid poured.


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## firespot (Apr 15, 2020)

I am curious, after all is said and done, about how much, cost wise, do you have in materials? Thinking on building one and debating weather this size of smaller. Thanks and keep up the good work.


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