# Cyanide leaching gold fingers and CPUs



## kjavanb123 (Jul 3, 2013)

All,

After some reading here, I finally gave it a try this morning, added 6.7 grams of sodium cyanide, 1 gram of m-nbss to 500ml of distilled water, prior to this washed all the beakers with NaOH solution to make sure they are not acidic, first I tried it at room temprature, didnt see any reaction, once I put it in gentel heat, it was soooo cool to see how it would remove the gold plating and gold only. Here are some photos;

CPU before cyanide leach;



After only fraction of minute into cyanide solution at gentel heat;



I tried the same with fingers, total of 10 kg of mixed PCI cards were scrapped and cut the fingers, had 400 grams of fingers, which was a blast to strip the gold off of them using cyanide and gentel heat, but I think agitation is also required since after I rinsed the fingers some of them still have partially gold plated,

Starting load,
View attachment 4


This is after 20 mins into gentel heat no agitation,
View attachment 3


Here is the cyanide solution after dissolving gold,
View attachment 1


Also the CPUs after being leached by cyanide,


Thanks
Kevin


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## GOLDbuyerCA (Jul 3, 2013)

Very low surface area recovery, the material doesn't look prepared for stripping. this needs redoing.


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## jimdoc (Jul 3, 2013)

Of all things to put in a used drink container, I would think a cyanide solution should be near dead last.

Jim


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## solar_plasma (Jul 3, 2013)

Very interesting! Nothing I would try myself, but I would enjoy to read and see more of your journey.



> Of all things to put in a used drink container, I would think a cyanide solution should be near dead last.



That's what I thought, when I looked at this picture...please don't do that again! This is seriously an accident waiting to happen.


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## Lou (Jul 3, 2013)

Kevin,

What the hell are you trying to do? Get yourself killed? Others?

This is about as unsafe as it gets. This is not something to play around with, to put in water bottles, or just for you to be doing. In my honest opinion, you're not cut out for this gig. If you can't manage to put the stuff into a suitable container, with a suitable label, you have no business doing this. Time to call it quits.

I'm half tempted to sticky this post and rename it "What not to do--hall of shame"


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## ericrm (Jul 3, 2013)

hey geniuss, you leaved half your gold on the cpu... what are you gonna do now?? DO NOT PUT those cpu in acid, do not incinerate them. ask someone how to kill you cyanide before it kill you or others

edit : can somone save that man life? i mean ... it is clear that something bad is about to happen and cyanide do only one bad thing...


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## jeneje (Jul 3, 2013)

Why do people mess with things they no nothing about? I hope he survives this. Leaving the cyanide in open containers is not good. 

Ken


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 3, 2013)

I really don't know how the moderators put up with this guy. The bad thing is if they ban him he will find the information some where else. If they don't ban him are they in any way responsable for his safety when he kills himself, which I see happening very soon. When this guy kills himself and they start investigating his death and find out where he has gotten his information from what is it going to do to the forum? He has been told repeatedly to stop what he is doing and now he goes and does this.

I hate saying something bad about anyone.

Is this what those companies you have been talking about are teaching you?

I can only imagine what Harold is going to say on this topic.

Kevin, many years ago one of my best friends was like you. He had money to burn (literaly, he was wealthy). He decided he wanted to raise hogs. But he had one up on you Kevin. He at least was smart enough to go work on a hog for for a year before he spent over $500,000 on building one. He was killed in a freak auto accident. 

I really don't want to hear about you being killed in a freak chemical accident. Please if you are so intent on opening up a refinery go to work for one for a year before you build one.

You are a hair away from killing yourself.

PLEASE STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND GET SOME HELP.


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## cnbarr (Jul 3, 2013)

Cyanide is bad news if improperly handled and disposed of. I work in an analytical/metallurgical lab and I work with and have been trained for cyanide handling, but I do not use it near as much as those who work across the hall in the metallurgical lab who use it on a daily basis. 

Safety is stressed in every aspect on a daily basis, from PPE to daily work habits and I have personally written many SOP's on safety in the lab as well as papers on emergency response and spill prevention.

If OSHA walked into our lab (which they did last week and found no violations) and saw an unknown vessel of acid or waste, it would be an automatic $10,000.00 fine to start. 

Speaking of an unmarked vessel of waste, let me tell you about a man I worked with, he decided he wanted to take on a glass etching project. After work he filled a Gatorade bottle with HF (hydrofluoric acid) and took it home and set it on his counter, his five year old son came running in to the kitchen as his father walked out. He grabbed the Gatorade bottle, knowing no difference, and proceeded to chug it. 

It was only a matter of minutes before he had lost his only child to his own lgnorance; and safety isn't something that should only be practiced at work, it's a state of mind in ones life, especially in our field of choice. 

You need to put the chemicals away and choose a new hobby, and how did you get your hands on a highly regulated chemical in the first place? If your bad decision result in someone's death and I pray it doesn't , you deserve no compassion or remorse for your obviously ignorant choices!!!

Just my twenty five cents (inflation affects us all)

Edit: for spelling and content clarity


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## kjavanb123 (Jul 3, 2013)

Geeez, 

First, those water bottles were sealed right after I took the picture, secondly, Everything was done under the fume hood, no one besides me is not working in that area, so there is no chance someone else can get near the bottles.

Regards,
Kevin


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## jimdoc (Jul 3, 2013)

kjavanb123 said:


> Geeez,
> 
> First, those water bottles were sealed right after I took the picture, secondly, Everything was done under the fume hood, no one besides me is not working in that area, so there is no chance someone else can get near the bottles.
> 
> ...



What if something happened to you, don't you think the ambulance crew should have a warning of what they may find?

Jim


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## cnbarr (Jul 3, 2013)

kjavanb123 said:


> Geeez,
> 
> First, those water bottles were sealed right after I took the picture, secondly, Everything was done under the fume hood, no one besides me is not working in that area, so there is no chance someone else can get near the bottles.
> 
> ...



But they weren't sealed when you took the pic and they were placed out in an open area filled with a highly toxic chemical that is beyond deadly! Where any man woman or child could come up and say "hey this looks like a nice tasty beverage on hot day" , then your your family or those close to you are dead , six under then what ? Because you put a cap on the bottles under a fume hood, if that is even how it "really" went down. 

Open your eyes, you are working with one of the most deadly chemicals known to man!


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## cnbarr (Jul 4, 2013)

On another note , do you even know how to neutralize it to properly dispose of it after you have removed the gold? That is not something you can't just dump down the drain!

I am quite concerned about this whole scenario, I feel like someone might die, at the very least.


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## butcher (Jul 4, 2013)

Kevin,
You should really heed these warnings, these guys have very valid concerns.

I was not going to say anything as everyone else has been trying to help here, but you drew me into the conversation, by that last post, you really need to take another look at your processes, and lab techniques, (in this area most all of us can improve), lab skills and safety we can always learn more and improve on, and we should be grateful for those noticing and pointing out to us, where we are making mistakes, or lacking in our knowledge, in our techniques or our processes, especially when it comes to safety.

It does not matter if you are the only one in the lab, disregard for safety, will not only affect you but will always affect others.

Your last comment has made me also to think it is time for you to stop and take a very close look at how you are working before you do any more, that kind of thinking is as dangerous as you have been with the cyanide.


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## Harold_V (Jul 4, 2013)

kjavanb123 said:


> those water bottles were sealed right after I took the picture, secondly, Everything was done under the fume hood, no one besides me is not working in that area, so there is no chance someone else can get near the bottles.


The point is that they ARE water bottles. You should NEVER use any type of vessel identified with consumption for storage of dangerous chemicals. You may know the difference, but not everyone will, and there's no guarantee you're the only person to have access to your facility. You may go years without problems, but this is the type of problem that can easily be prevented by simply not doing something stupid. I can only imagine the horror of a family member paying a visit and thinking the bottle looked inviting. It could easily be mistaken for a fruit beverage, especially by a child.

You say kids aren't welcome in your lab? 

Stranger things have happened than uninvited guests, I'm sure you'd agree. 

Thinking beyond your comment about being the only person with access to your facility, if you are in the habit of drinking water from such a bottle, it's only a matter of time until you're distracted and grab one to take a sip. It could well contain cyanide in enough volume to kill you, even if it had been emptied previously. 

Kevin, please pay attention to the admonition to exercise greater care in what you're doing. Cyanide is nothing to fool with if you don't have excellent work and personal hygiene habits. It takes very little to kill a person. 

Harold


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## solar_plasma (Jul 4, 2013)

> how did you get your hands on a highly regulated chemical in the first place



Wow, I believed, you are a professional refiner, since you could get this highly regulated chemical! I take everything back, what I said, that I'd like to see and read more. After what I read now, I think you are just one step away from prison, if you proceed this way.


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## kjavanb123 (Jul 4, 2013)

I apperciate everyone concern regarding this matter, but Inread all the posts related to the subject specially the great one titled KCN setup and yes I read about how to convert waste cyanide solution to less poisenous cynate, and so far I did produce the gold powder using zinc method.

Those bottles were labeled posion cyanidr solution after photos and sealed and were only used for this first trial, ss containers will be used once I learned enough.

Antidote of 1% sodium thiosulphate solution and amytl nitrite pearls all availale per hook insttuctiins.

The only concern I have is when drop everything with zinc rinse the beaker eith water boil and repeat 3 times, can we use peroxide solution to remove any traces of cyanide?


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## solar_plasma (Jul 4, 2013)

As a first answer, I would say, consider them (edit: the beakers) to be contaminated regardless how much they are rinsed and make sure, they will not be used for other purposes. At least in my country they would only be lawfully free of contamination, if decontaminated, typically incinerated, by a specialized and officially authorized company. This would at least be the procedure for the german fire departments.

edit: Oh I guess,I misunderstood the question.


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 4, 2013)

The cyanide (plus m-NBSS and/or H2O2) solution will only dissolve gold plating. It will not dissolve gold alloys, such as the gold/tin braze used to attach the CPU lid or the gold/silicon braze use to attach the IC chip. Since about 60-70% of the gold on those particular CPU packages is contained in those 2 brazes, stripping them with cyanide is sort of a fool's errand. Now you'll have to finish them off with AR, after, of course, you get rid of the cyanide residue on them.


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## bswartzwelder (Jul 4, 2013)

I hope I live upwind of him.


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## jimdoc (Jul 4, 2013)

bswartzwelder said:


> I hope I live upwind of him.



I think he is in Dubai, so I think your safe.

Jim


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## jeneje (Jul 4, 2013)

bswartzwelder said:


> I hope I live upwind of him.


 :lol: scared are we! just kidding, :mrgreen: 

Ken


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 4, 2013)

Unfortunately, ultimately, we ALL live downwind of him. It's just a matter of how close we are. He's totally oblivious. If he works in a hood, all is good. It doesn't matter that those fumes that leave the hood are still deadly and eventually blow in _someone's_ direction.

I dread the day we all read the news and learn that some greedy, &*%[email protected] American has caused a huge toxic accident in a foreign country, providing yet another reason to hate us all.

I have posted on this forum. I have PMd this member. So have many veteran members. It doesn't matter what you write. I have given up. I invite everyone else to do the same. 

Dave


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## jeneje (Jul 4, 2013)

I have come to realize, that a person will do what they want in spite of what others say. This is the wrong attitude I know but...some people have to learn the hard way. None of us can control his action, although we try to instruct and give sound advice they seem to ignore or just don't want to accept it. So...it is what it is! All we can do is hope for the best.

Ken


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## Gratilla (Jul 4, 2013)

Guys, a few things:

1) A fume hood is good, but ... if you feel the need to use a fume hood with cyanides, then you're not treating the chemical with due respect to begin with. Cyanide fumes are composed of hydrogen cyanide produced by sodium cyanide (NaCN) or potassium cyanide (KCN) under acidic conditions ie at a pH below 7. Always dissolve NaCN/KCN in water adjusted to a high pH (ie pH10) and a fume hood should never be necessary. (No harm in using one though.)

2) Doc Williams interestingly addresses the paranoia surrounding cyanide gas in one of his many posts on the Internet (shouldn't be difficult to find). He states that HCN is vilified because of its association with executions. But hydrogen sulphide (HS), a constituent in passing wind, is even more poisonous. It's often used to demonstrate nasty smells in high school chemlabs, but we don't hear the amount of negative comment that we do with cyanide - very probably because no-one has ever been executed by fart.

3) Doc Williams also informs us that sodium thiosulphate can be used to neutralize cyanides. Our OP already appears to know that.

4) Instead of tearing posters a new one, how about:

a. Always use properly labelled appropriate containers in a secure area.
b. Swot up on chemicals you're not familiar with first.
c. Always work with cyanides at a high pH.
d. Cyanide is not appropriate for leaching gold from chips because ... ... ...


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## JHS (Jul 4, 2013)

belive it or not
about a year and a half ago,and before i found the forum, i was researching methods for refining gold.
i came across a tutorial that explained in depth the process of Cyanide.i read through it and bookmarked it.
i was not intrested in it other than how the process worked.
the amazing part of it was at the end of the tutorial there was an order form along with a form for a permit to buy 
the Cyanide for the purpose of hobby gold refining.i live in the usa.
i still have the link,but i will not post it.i will not be responsable for anyones death.
Cyanide,just has no place in a hobby,and that little bit of gold is not worth it either.
as much as i would like to get the gold out sucessfully,i'll wait until someone posts something that will help.
after reading a year and a half including hoke 3 times,it is still in solution.that is ok,it's still there.
some day i will figure it out,but not at the cost of a life.not even the dog.
PLEASE DO NOT KILL MY GRAND CHILDREN.
john


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## JHS (Jul 4, 2013)

A SIDE NOTE,
THE CARDBOARD THE CHIPS ARE ON ID NOW DEADLY HAZMAT.
DO NOT BURN IT.
YES HAROLD I AM YELLING THIS TIME.
john


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## Harold_V (Jul 5, 2013)

JHS said:


> i came across a tutorial that explained in depth the process of Cyanide.i read through it and bookmarked it.
> i was not intrested in it other than how the process worked.
> the amazing part of it was at the end of the tutorial there was an order form along with a form for a permit to buy
> the Cyanide for the purpose of hobby gold refining.


Of interest should be the fact that cyanide is NOT a refining process, as it is not selective. If you process with cyanide, both silver and gold will be dissolved, as will base metals, assuming you aren't using a very dilute cyanide solution. Cyanide is used for EXTRACTION, not refining. As has been alluded, for the most part, it has no place in the hobby refinery. There are other means to the ends desired. 

Harold


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## Gratilla (Jul 5, 2013)

Harold_V said:


> Of interest should be the fact that cyanide is NOT a refining process, as it is not selective. ... ...



Correct. But, IMO, the main reason that cyanide has not been used in (direct) refining is not it's lack of selectivity (after all the acid side leaches are not generally selective), but the fact that there is not even one satisfactory gold-selective organic solvent that can be used for solvent extraction (SX) at a pH above 7.

Recently though, chemical modifiers have been discovered that allow previously unusable (secondary and tertiary amine) solvents (etc) to now be used at pH's above even 10.

I think use of SX for refining of cyanide leaches has a bright industrial future.


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## freechemist (Jul 5, 2013)

Gratilla,

Cyanide forms very stable complexes not only with gold and silver, but also with all PGMs. All these cyano-complex-anions are of remarkable chemical stability, some of them nearly undistructable by "normal" wet-chemical means. The anion [Au(CN)2]- as an example survives prolonged boiling in aqua regia and/or HCl/Cl2, forming as a final product the complex Anion [Au(CN)2Cl2]-, containing Au(III). From the aqueous leach-solution [Au(CN)2]- can be recovered as the metal e.g. by cementation with zinc or eventually by cathodic reduction through electrolysis. Therefor I can see no reason, to introduce an additional, and in my eyes unnecessary solvent-extraction-step befor reducing [Au(CN)2]- from the leach-solution to the metal.


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## JHS (Jul 5, 2013)

Harold,
I used the terms "hobbiest gold refining"because that was what was required to obtain the permit.
john


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## bswartzwelder (Jul 5, 2013)

kjavanb123,

In the most sincere way possible, I hope that neither you nor anybody else on this forum is ever nominated for the Darwin Award.


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## solar_plasma (Jul 5, 2013)

I thought about it and after all, cyanide leaching is something for professionals with professional equipment, who are permitted to work with it. In this country I've seen it only be used in fully sealed systems, which are constructed and tested by people, who has the authority to do so.

Try to calculate, how much HCN could be set free from the amount you are working with, find one of those free disaster management apps and let it calculate the expected result and you will see, what we are talking about. The hazmats, fire fighter, police, emergency teams and the evacuation of your neighbourhood 500 m around, will easily get so expensive, that you never will be able to pay the bill. Then the penalty will not be less. If someone gets ill off it, invalide or dies, it will get in the millions for compensation. No assurance will pay for you. Further you can expect to be sentenced prison, depending on country and indictment even more. If they even assume a terrorism background, you can say goodbye to your [set a word with 3 letters].

As I said,I believed you are a professional refiner, who is doing that legally, - obviously not the case.

You said,it's only you, who can enter your lab, but your lab could burn off, then everything you have on stock will gas off. Happy birthday.


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## JHS (Jul 5, 2013)

obviously not the case.
how could you say that?
you can see all the junk on the floor in the upper right corner of the chip picture,and you can see the old piece of cardboard that he is using for a table,
looks to me like he is recycling the cardboard table.and i am sure his fume hood has at least scrubbers.
looks to me that he is a pro.
right?


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## RGJohn (Jul 5, 2013)

kjavanb123 said:


> .......
> 
> 
> Antidote of 1% sodium thiosulphate solution and amytl nitrite pearls all availale per hook insttuctiins.
> ...


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## Gratilla (Jul 5, 2013)

freechemist said:


> ... From the aqueous leach-solution [Au(CN)2]- can be recovered as the metal e.g. by cementation with zinc or eventually by cathodic reduction through electrolysis. Therefor I can see no reason, to introduce an additional, and in my eyes unnecessary solvent-extraction-step befor reducing [Au(CN)2]- from the leach-solution to the metal.


Freechemist,

Surely it's the very selectivity that makes solvent extraction processes so attractive. In the case of butyl diglyme and acid-side leaches, a little care can produce four 9's gold in a two-step process - extraction and precipitation. Similarly with cyanidation and the new modified organic solvents.

The currently available methods for getting gold out of cyanide leaches - zinc or carbon - require multiple further steps to get a saleable product.


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## freechemist (Jul 6, 2013)

Gratilla,

You write:


> The currently available methods for getting gold out of cyanide leaches - zinc or carbon - require multiple further steps to get a saleable product.


That's a fact indeed, which also holds true for [Au(CN)2]- dissolved in an organic solvent, obtained after it's extraction from the original aqueous leach-solution. Thus, I still do not see an additional, in my eyes unnecessary extraction step making sense, as long as the [Au(CN)2]- involved, can be processed into a saleable product directly from the aqueous leach-solution.


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## Gratilla (Jul 6, 2013)

Freechemist,

The only mention of extraction of gold from the organic solvent in the source document (Click here if anyone is interested: http://content.lib.utah.edu/utils/getfile/collection/uspace/id/3634/filename/3069.pdf) is:

*"Stripping is easily performed with caustic solution of pH 12 or 13."*

I had assumed it would be as straight-forward as with butyl diglyme (and oxalic acid). What have I missed?


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## Ian_B (Jul 6, 2013)

I somewhat recall reading a thread on a completely different website concerning a completely different subject matter... from what I can remember their was a member of this other forum which had to do with home pyrotechnic manufacturing. 

This person was trying to make a potato gun or some sort of projectile launcher but was unable to find gunpowder or the chemicals required to make gunpowder 

*Now gunpowder is considered a "low explosive" because without me getting too technical a low explosive is considered a low explosive if it decomposes slower then the speed of sound, and is generally used as a propellent for projectiles (bullets) if you want to know more please google it because this is not my fort-ay at all. *

Back to the reason I started this post. 

This person was unable to find black powder but was able to find some very common chemicals which are required to make a high explosive. So this individual made a post on this other forum talking about what he was planning on doing, The whole while the people who are professionals in the field of pyrotechnics and explosives were telling this person NOT to do what he was planning on doing REPEATEDLY. Well this individual continued to post his progress and tried to explain to the people who were much more knowledgeable than he that he understood what he was doing. All of a sudden no further replies were made by this individual, Nothing... and it showed that this individual had not logged in since his last post.

One way or the other someone of the forum (it may very well have been a moderator or owner of the forum) was able to track down where this individual lived.

as it turns out someone(again it might have been a moderator or the owner of the forum) did a little research and stumbled across a newspaper article from the city that this individual lived which mentioned an individual was recently found deceased in his basement due to an explosive device... without getting to gory he had loaded this potato gun with the high explosive and tried to use it with the potato gun held next to his head.... (you can fill in the blank as to what happened) 

kjavanb123 I know you might be thinking that this person was dealing with explosives and he was doing things he was not supposed to do, but think of it this way the people on this other forum were telling him not to do what he was doing because they were professionals in that field 
To most people including myself if someone who is much more knowledgeable in a certain field is telling me that something I am thinking of doing is dangerous or is down right deadly you can bet that I would listen to them before it's too late.

Please Please Please listen to what these kind people who are much more knowledgeable in this field are telling you before it's too late.

If you want to be a refiner put out some resumes to all the refiners you can find around where you live and learn from what they teach you and get paid for it.

then you can after that go out on your own at least a little more safely if you are still interested in becoming a refiner.


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## bswartzwelder (Jul 7, 2013)

Ian B,

After reading your post about the guy wanting to make gunpowder, I did a search in the Darwin Awards website. Could not find any reference to it. Anybody familiar with the Darwin website knows it is dedicated to people who have through stupidty removed themselves from the gene pool. Usually, they meet their demise, but on rare occasion, they stiil live, but have rendered themselves unable to produce offspring. Lots of interesting reading there from the guy who strapped JATO (Jet Assisted Take Off unit which helps very heavy aircraft get airborne) units to his car and went out to the desert to try it out. They found parts of his car scattered for miles (if memory serves me correctly). To the guy who strapped weather balloons filled with helium to his lawn chair, (Lawn Chair Larry Walters). He took along a BB gun to shoot holes in the ballons to make his descent. He attained an altitude of 16,000 feet but did not get killed by this escapade. He committed suicide on October 6, 1993 at age 44. Larry didn't earn a Darwin Award for his feat. HOWEVER, on the first page is a story of a guy who picked up a Salsa jar and took a swig of gasoline. After spitting it up onto his clothing, he recovered from the shock, by lighting a cigarette. Man, that one hits close to home.


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## kjavanb123 (Jul 7, 2013)

Fellows,

I am not dead nor anyone else that came close to my plant, I did recover 2.53 grams of gold from 950 g of mixed CPUs. Also used the method desrcibed here, addition of 30% peroxide to rinse everything which was inside the cyanide leach, and added chlorine at pH 9 followed by NaOH to convert left over cyanide solution to cyanate.

I have repeatedly asked for consultant on setting up a full WEEE recycling plant but no one responded, so it is not I am not looking for professionals in this field who could get paid for their consultancy.

Again, I do have the capitals to start a 1 ton per day WEEE recycling plant, then either go to EW process to recover values, or ship to smelting company.


Regards,
Kevin


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## Bizness4you (Jul 24, 2013)

If I could only process one ton a day, I would jump of a cliff :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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