# Problem HCL/CL



## nthawk52 (Sep 16, 2013)

I think I just really messed up!!!!! While using this method, I put in 100ml of hcl and the over zealously put in (in small increments) about 45ml of cl. It is bubbling and gassing... what are my expectations of consequence?
I then added about 50ml h2o. The reaction has slowed WAY down but still gassing.


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## jeneje (Sep 16, 2013)

Stay away from the fumes, it chlorine gas.
Ken


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## nthawk52 (Sep 16, 2013)

Not a problem, it's outside with a fan blowing on it... stuff is lethal, I know.


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## maynman1751 (Sep 16, 2013)

What materials and what quantity were you attempting to dissolve?


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## nthawk52 (Sep 16, 2013)

I was using 111 glucose test strips with gold all over them for the circuitry on plastic.
the gold all went into the solution and I filtered it off in a new jar. It is a merky kind of yellow and when stirred it still off-gasses a little. Now I've put it on gentile heat and waiting.......


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## jeneje (Sep 16, 2013)

You are doing that outside I hope.
Ken


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## nthawk52 (Sep 16, 2013)

well ventilated shop... doors open big fan running... I ain't breathing that stuff!!!!!!!

What do you think of the looks of it???????????


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## pattt (Sep 16, 2013)

Hi there,

All I can see is a yellow with greenish tint solution in a beaker, what would you want me (us) to think about it ?
i can't see any hcl/cl/h2O or gold in it, however it would be easy for you to know, Test it !!
If there is gold in your solution ,make sure you let the chlorine evaporate (you can test that also) before trying to precipitate it.

Pat


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## nthawk52 (Sep 16, 2013)

Hi Pattt... the pic is the mess i created with too much cl in the hcl...i filtered out the plastic strips and thats what i have left...
should i wait until all the chlorine is gone before testing?


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## pattt (Sep 16, 2013)

Hi nthawk52,

Let me first say I am a newbie too, I never worked with the strips, so I don't know what else could be in your solution (the gold was probably plated on some other metal,), but as long they ( the plastics ) did not dissolve and the only thing is you added to much sodium hypochlorite, I dont think its a big mess, keep it on Low heat for some time or let it stand in the sun or overnight, that will evaporate the CL,
if you have ammonia in the house, fill the cap ( half ) with ammonia and hold it above your solution,(Don't drop it in !! ) it will give a white cloud ( smoke ) when there is still CL in your solution.
I don't know for sure if CL in your solution will affect a stannous test , but I think it could, I am sure someone will answer that.

But we have been asked to direct newbies with "easy" questions to the searchbox, do the searching , studie Hoke's, read the : http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=796
Show us you want to do the works :mrgreen: 
Its not always easy , but always fun, to do the searching and the learning :lol: 
Hope I was of any help and let us know how things go......

Pat


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## nthawk52 (Sep 16, 2013)

thanks Pattt, I've re-filtered it and have it on a gentile heat, will wait overnight and see what happends.....


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## pattt (Sep 16, 2013)

Ok,don't keep it on the heat all night !! 
And better heat it in a safety "catch" pan, put your beaker in a pan ( pot ), if your glass beaker breaks from heating, your ( gold ) solution ends up in the "catch pot"

Pat


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## nthawk52 (Sep 16, 2013)

No worries... it is on barely warm...just beyond "luke warm" if you know what I mean....
I WILL take it off the after giving up for the night, LOL....
Sure hope this will work...
You think adding some distilled water would help in repairing this??????


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## pattt (Sep 16, 2013)

Just be patience , as far as I can see there is nothing really to repair, you always have to evaporate the chlorine gas,
if you over added CL you gonna have to let it stand longer to evaporate, you should test!! and see when its ready, then test with stannous, and drop.
test again, do the washes and do a second refining, one other thing I do hope that 111 strips produces any weight, don't think it will be grams.

did I mention to read Hoke's :mrgreen: 

Pat


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## nthawk52 (Sep 16, 2013)

If I read Hoke's AGAIN, I'll probably start committing it to memory!
I have a real hard time with patience, except for fishing. Guess I should think I'm fishing for gold.........
If you want, I'll keep you up-dated with the progression of this......


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 16, 2013)

nthawk52 said:


> Not a problem, it's outside with a fan blowing on it... stuff is lethal, I know.


I hope I'm not downwind of you!

Releasing stuff you know is lethal into the atmosphere is just like pouring your untreated toxic waste down the drain to me. Treat your fumes. Treat your waste.

Dave


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## nthawk52 (Sep 16, 2013)

Point taken......


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## steyr223 (Sep 17, 2013)

Hello
I hope everyone is good in the head today

I really would like to add one simple suggestion
And hope others pick it up as a better way

I have found to test for chlorine you do not need
To do more than remove the cap of the ammonia
Container when it is sitting next to your hcl/bleach 
container .
I have had good results up to 3' away
When done while heating your hcl/bleach it is 
Much more visual but works also when cold

I hope this saves the 100's of spills on your hands
Or in your solution that are bound to happen.
thanks steyr223 rob


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## Pantherlikher (Sep 17, 2013)

nthawk52 

I'm in the same boat now, 2 weeks later and still no drop with a very purple test. I forgot to remember that sunlight destroys CL so I'll be putting it outside. Don't add anything untill you feel all the CL has dissepated.

Well ventilated, my swimming pool gives off way more CL gas when I shock it then anything I've done. Except in concentrations like leaving my shed door open when I uncap the HCL bottle. Do Not breath at all and run out the door shutting it behind you. I have nice ventalation with a fan blowing fresh air in 1 window and out my work space window. I only work with HCL and bleach but I'm still working on something better.

I know my gold's still there but it's driving me bonkers waiting. I broke alot of fingers last night while waiting and read more of the forum helps.

B.S.
...I will help anyone who apreciate it by learning...


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## nthawk52 (Sep 17, 2013)

my "new" batch (224 strips) put in measured amounts of hcl/cl and left overnight has given me a bright yellow clear liquid and stannous shows nothing! where did the gold go??????????


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## pattt (Sep 17, 2013)

Hi,

Thanks Steyr for your added info,indeed a nearly empty cap ammonia will show the white fumes.
nthawk, did you test your stannous?

Pat


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## nthawk52 (Sep 17, 2013)

No, Pat I haven't. I don't have a known positive to test the stannous, but am working on that for the sake of knowing I've got viable solution. My batches are still off gassing fairly strong, so I'm going to have to wait it out and explore other ideas. I don't quit very easily, so I'm in this until the end!


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## Pantherlikher (Sep 17, 2013)

Make shift stannous test to be sure it's good.
1 drop HCL on a gold foil. bleach on a Q-tip rub foil untill it dissolves.
Once it starts dissolving, take a clean Q-tip and rub as much liquid as you can into the tip. Now dip in stannous and see if it changes color, if even slightly or quickly dissapears. 
A brain fart and I had this idea to test.
It should be enough to dissolve some gold and show some kind of color change. 

B.S.
Try it and let me know if it works...


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## Harold_V (Sep 18, 2013)

Pantherlikher said:


> Make shift stannous test to be sure it's good.
> 1 drop HCL on a gold foil. bleach on a Q-tip rub foil untill it dissolves.
> Once it starts dissolving, take a clean Q-tip and rub as much liquid as you can into the tip. Now dip in stannous and see if it changes color, if even slightly or quickly dissapears.
> A brain fart and I had this idea to test.
> ...


The one thing you must be careful to avoid is the presence of excess chlorine, or if you dissolve with nitric/HCl, excess nitric. It often interrupts the reaction with stannous chloride, giving a false reading. You're very best served by making a proper supply of standard solution, one which you know to be free of those problems. That's really the reliable way to test your stannous chloride, for, otherwise, you don't know why it may not be working properly. You can do that by dissolving a couple grains of gold, evaporating, then diluting to a couple fluid ounces. Do a test with some fresh made stannous chloride, so you'll know what the proper reaction looks like for your standard solution. 

Harold


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## Pantherlikher (Sep 19, 2013)

Patience pays. I went to the shed and found really nice brown to orange sponge in the container I've waited almost 2 weeks for. 

nthawk52 
You said you put measured amounts of HCL+ bleach. This can make problems. cover the material with HCL and only add alittle bleach and wait. At first, it dissolves like crazy but then seems to stop. It doesn't but goes slowly, prompting you to add more bleach.

Just be careful with exact measurements. It's a great guide but you should add bleach slowly and wait. This was my problem except I splashed way to much in when adding alittle more bleach which caused me the problem.
B.S.
And as always, watch the waste. It can sneak up quickly and become a bigger problem.


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## nthawk52 (Sep 20, 2013)

Panther, that was great advise! I'm going to attempt that on my next batch, and hopefully grow some patience in the process.


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## nthawk52 (Sep 21, 2013)

Here's what my 3rd batch going looks like... 300 strips in HCL only..... foils are coming off nice.....


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## pattt (Sep 21, 2013)

Hi nthawk,
so, 3th batch, how did you do with the first two??
you have a standard gold test solution now? to test your stannous?

Pat


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## nthawk52 (Sep 21, 2013)

Batch 1 & 2 are an epic FAIL!!!!! 3rd time may be the charm........


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## Pantherlikher (Sep 21, 2013)

nthawk52 said:


> Batch 1 & 2 are an epic FAIL!!!!! 3rd time may be the charm........



You only fail epically if you throw it out. Have you followed any advise and gotten proper testing solution? Or done more reading to let the whole process sink in so you don't have problems?...

B.S.
...Even falure is good as you learn how Not to do it...


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## nthawk52 (Sep 22, 2013)

Panther, Yes I have read until my eyes bled, and have researched, and continue to do both. I now have a standard solution so I know my Stannus is O.K.... I'll keep trying and LEARNING as I go.


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