# PLEASE I NEED HELP ITS REALY S.O.S



## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

HELLO DEAR FRIENDS..MY NAME IS ALON IM FROM ISRAEL AND SOORY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH..I HOPE YOUL ANDERSTAND ME..MY PROBLEM IS: I DID GOLD RECOVER AND AFTER THIS GOLD REFINE AND EVRY THING LOOKD GOOD MAYBE I PUT TO MUC NITRIC ACID WITH THE HYDROCHLORIC ACID TO HAVE AQUA RIGIA IN THE END OF PROSCES I PUT LITELL BIT SULFURIK ACID TO DISLOVED ANY LEAD..THE SOLUTOIN WASS COOL I FILTER WITH BUCHNER FUNNEL AND THE COLOR OF THE SOLUTOION WASS VERY NICE CRYSTAL YELOW THE PROBLEM START WHEN I ADD THE S.M.B(SODIOM METALBISLUFITE) TO DROP AND PRINCIPEIT THE GOLD FROM THE SOLUTOIN BUT WHAT HAPEND IS AN AGRESIV RECTOIN WITH NOICE SSSSSSS LIKE BOIL AND RUN A WAY SITUATOIN AND STRONG RED FUMES GET FROM THE SOLUTOIN AND THE COLOR CHANGED TO RED\ORANG..I LEFT IT LIKE THIS AND I DONT KNOW WHAT HAPEND AND HOW I CAN FIX IT..PLEASE I NEED YOUR HELP..LOT OF THANKS FOR RESPONDING ME...ALON


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## g_axelsson (Apr 29, 2016)

Hi Alon,

you should really have studied a bit more before starting refining. And please, don't post in all caps, it's really hard to read.

What you are missing is denoxing. You need to get rid of the excess nitric acid or the gold will just redissolve while emitting a lot of red poisonous fumes. Read more about it in the library section.

Göran


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

thank you dear friend im new here and its littel hard to me to find what i have to do..someone told me to put orea but he dont sure..im realy dont know what to do and if ilost the gold that wass on the solutoin..thanks..alon


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## g_axelsson (Apr 29, 2016)

Take it easy, as long as you don't throw anything away your gold is safe.

Put the beakers away in a safe spot with a loose cover, AR breaks down and builds up pressure if you keep it in a closed vessel.

Urea is no longer recommended for denoxing solutions, there are better methods. Use the search function and look for "denoxing" and read the library section.

And while you are at it, look up testing for gold and stannous, then you could answer that question yourself if the gold is in solution or not.

Göran


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## g_axelsson (Apr 29, 2016)

And read the rules of the forum!!!

I have removed your other post. One of the rules is no double posts.

Göran


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

lot of thanks to you but my english is not good so thers lot of words that i dont know the meaning..if some one can tel me what ill have to do or what to put on the solutoin ill be happy..i even dont know what is denoxing means..so please if you culd tell me what to do it will be graet..lot of thanks to you for responding me...alon


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## autumnwillow (Apr 29, 2016)

I would really like to help you out and Goran knows the answer very well.

The simple reason he is not telling you is that you might do something else and end up with an accident.

If you could show a picture that you are doing this in a fume hood I will tell you the answer.


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

please if you can tell me about the "there are better methods" so what you offer me to do..thanks for respond


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

hi..i promis to you to do exectly what you will tell me..im work with gloves googles and respirator musck..i dont have fum huds im working in my back yard outside..please i need help


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

autumnwillow said:


> I would really like to help you out and Goran knows the answer very well.
> 
> The simple reason he is not telling you is that you might do something else and end up with an accident.
> 
> If you could show a picture that you are doing this in a fume hood I will tell you the answer.



im working outdoor with full gear for my safety dont wory..please tell me what to do..ill be glad for your respond..alon


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## g_axelsson (Apr 29, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> lot of thanks to you but my english is not good so thers lot of words that i dont know the meaning..if some one can tel me what ill have to do or what to put on the solutoin ill be happy..i even dont know what is denoxing means..so please if you culd tell me what to do it will be graet..lot of thanks to you for responding me...alon


When you find a word you don't understand, use the search function.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=denoxing&terms=all&author=&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

If you have a hard time with the English you should call a friend or relative that can help you out. Google translate is also used by members which have problem with the English language.

I could probably tell you what to do but if you don't understand what is already written on the forum what guarantees that you understand me?

We will help you, but you need to put some work in yourself. With so many members on this forum we have no way of guiding everyone in detail.

If someone want's to do it on the other hand, it's up to them. I've helped some Swedish members on a one by one basis and I know it happens now and then that members invites other to show how it's done. Maybe some of our Israeli members could help you.

And if autumnwillow would like to help you that's okay by me.

But generally, the more you show that you made an effort to read and learn, the more likelihood that you will receive help.

Göran


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

ok ghoran.so i understand that my problem is to much nitric acid on the solutoin and i need to use sulfamic acid..of cours ill learn all that i have to do safetly...please if thers any one that could help me with this prosses ill be glad and if thers here israelis member ill be thanks full for your help..alon...im realy desperd now..sorry


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

hi dear friends. someone could help me please ???? i realy need your help...alon :?:


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## 4metals (Apr 29, 2016)

Alon

Unfortunately the methods you will read will guide you through the proper way to recover the gold from the acid solution if you made it properly, as you did not do it properly it is difficult to just say do A,B, & C and all will be fine. It all depends on exactly what you did. 

As Goran pointed out you have added too much nitric acid. You never said what material you started this process with so it is difficult to give you decent advice. Do you have a little acid, as in 100CC or liters of acid? It matters.

If you started with a scrap type, like karat gold, which is high in gold content, you will proceed differently than if you started with gold filled material. 

So answer these 5 questions;

What material did you start with? 

What was the weight you started with?

How much Hydrochloric Acid did you use?

How much Nitric Acid did you use?

Do you have a solution of stannous chloride to test your solution?

I realize you have a difficult time with English but this is a forum in which English is spoken. You have gotten yourself into trouble and now you are here asking for help. Normally members who behave this way are banned rather quickly. Since others have begun to assist you I think it best to let it continue forward. Don't tell us again about your language barrier, just answer the 5 questions asked and you will get answers on how to deal with this.


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

4metals said:


> Alon
> 
> Unfortunately the methods you will read will guide you through the proper way to recover the gold from the acid solution if you made it properly, as you did not do it properly it is difficult to just say do A,B, & C and all will be fine. It all depends on exactly what you did.
> 
> ...


lot of thanks dear 4metals..i recoverd 535 grams of memory card gold finger..i did the a.p solution and evry thing wass good i tok the foils with the filter and put it on 5 liter beaker..i add 700ml of hydrochloric acid and put it on low heat after thet i put around370 ml of nitric acid i coocked it like an 70 minutes and turn of the heating and left it cool outdoor when the solution cool for littel i add 30 ml of sulfuric acid and left it cool like 90 minutes..i riens it with distild water and filter it with buchner funnel.i had like 1200ml of solutoin thet cool on 3liter beaker. when i put the first s.m.b spoon ther was a reacthion and wass noice sssssss and its like boild and runaway littel bit and ther was red strong fumes when i add the s.m.b...now the solution changed the color from very nice crystal yelow to red\orang..i puted like tree tea spoon of s.m.b...now its in safe place i did not doing any thing until ill know exectly what to do...lot of thanks for helping me dear friend


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

i did not had stannous test..i dont have it..i could buy it only on sunday its passover holyday in israel


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## artart47 (Apr 29, 2016)

Hi Alon! 
VERY IMPORTANT! The respirator you have will not protect you from the red nitric fumes! No respirator will. Make sure the wind is blowing from your left or right side so you don't get any fumes!
artart47.


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

thank you for this informatoin..so what kinde of musck filter i need ? thanks for respond


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## solar_plasma (Apr 29, 2016)

This can easily be solved, but not with your lack of knowledge and experience. Those max 5g gold can wait and they are not worth getting hurt. Without any experience chances are high that you will get a boil over and lose a lot of your values. Put it a safe place and spend some weeks of reading the forum. Maybe then you will decide to spend even more time only reading.

You have used about 360ml too much nitric. And you have very little gold in those one point three litres of liquid. If you try to fix this by a couple of answers you will let it boil over and/or you will not find your gold because neither you will know where it is nor what it looks like.


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## solar_plasma (Apr 29, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> thank you for this informatoin..so what kinde of musck filter i need ? thanks for respond



Once again, filter mask is NO option. Stop that. Read.

Use 4metal's link to the Library and start reading!


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## 4metals (Apr 29, 2016)

You have used way too much acid. The gold foils coming off of the fingers of 535 grams of cards will be only a few grams. What you should have done is covered the foils with a few Cm of Hydrochloric Acid and then slowly in 5 Ml increments added the Nitric Acid until the Nitric additions no longer caused a reaction and all of the foils were dissolved. Had you done what I just said you would have had very little excess nitric acid to deal with as that small amount of foils did not require much nitric acid. 

You have a large excess of nitric to deal with. And you do not have a lot of gold in solution to recover. Question for some of our more experienced AP processors, how many grams of foils would you expect from 535 grams of fingers? 

If you were to use sulfamic acid you would need about a pound of the powdered acid, dissolved in hot water and added. If you were to use urea, you should add urea prills to a 5 gallon bucket and pour the acid slowly on to the urea. It will foam wildly but in a 5 gallon pail that is almost empty you should not foam over. Have a spray nozzle available to spray down any foam that approaches the rim. When all of the acid is in the pail with the urea, try a small addition of urea to see if it still fizzes. If it doesn't it is ready to drop the gold. Since you are dropping gold from gold foils, there are no PGM's to worry about the urea effecting any further drops. This is not a preferred method but seeing as you added such an excessive quantity of nitric acid you need an extreme solution. Do not allow the solution with the gold dropped to sit around and cool off, the quantity of urea you added will crystallize out and mix with the dropped gold, filter it before it starts to crystallize. 

Some members might suggest cementing everything on copper, the copper will dissolve, eat up the acid and drop out the gold. The reason I did not mention this is you will be looking for very little gold and you could lose some by having it adhere to the copper that didn't dissolve when the nitric acid was completely used up. If there was a lot of gold in there, this is what I would do, but for a few grams it isn't. 

You still need stannous to test the solution for completeness of your gold precipitation.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 29, 2016)

From my calculations, i figured that you had about 95 grams total weight of gold, copper, and nickel on the fingers. That would take about 400 ml of aqua regia to dissolve the metals - say, 320 ml of HCl and 80 ml of nitric. You added 700 ml of HCl and 370ml of nitric. The extra 380 ml of HCl won't cause any problems, but the extra 290 ml of nitric will cause big problems. As long as this extra nitric is there, the SMB won't drop the gold. So, you somehow must get rid of this nitric before dropping the gold.

There are basically 5 methods of getting rid of excess nitric. You should have studied everything on this post before attempting to process that material. I'll let someone else give you the details. I don't have much experience with these because I can't remember using too much nitric during the last 30 years.
(1) With small amounts of nitric, SMB will decompose and eliminate it. However, a toxic nasty gas, SO2 will be released and, for 290 ml of nitric, it will take a lot of SMB. In this case, I wouldn't recommend this.
(2) Urea will work best on small amounts of nitric. With larger amounts, such as you have, I've always had crystals of urea nitrite form in the solution. These crystals are difficult to work around and there's the possibility of them being explosive under certain conditions. 
(3) Sulfamic acid will eliminate the nitric but, for 290 ml, it will take about 1 pound. There are a lot of people here with sulfamic acid experience. 
(4) Evaporation. This involves evaporating to nearly a syrup, adding a little HCl, evaporating, adding HCl, evaporating - repeat a couple more times. Then dilute, filter, drop the gold.
(5) This is actually starting over. You add copper metal to the solution until the nitric is used up and the gold has cemented out on the copper remainiing.

When using aqua regia, it is best to cover the material with HCl only and heat it to about 60C. Then, add a small amount of nitric acid - in this case about 15 ml. Allow the reaction to proceed. When the reaction slows considerably or stops, add another increment of nitric. Repeat until an addition of nitric produces no reaction. Don't add anymore nitric. Everything at this point should be dissolved. Using this method, no excess nitric is used and, therefore, the SMB will immediately drop the gold with no problems.

Actually, if I were going to use HCl and nitric on fingers, I would first dissolve all the copper and nickel using only nitric and water, in a 50:50 mix. When all the copper and nickel was dissolved, I would then remove the solution by filtering or decanting, rinse a few times with water, and return all the solids to the beaker. I would then cover the solids with HCl, heat, and go through the nitric additions method outlined above.


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

goldsilverpro said:


> From my calculations, i figured that you had about 95 grams total weight of gold, copper, and nickel on the fingers. That would take about 400 ml of aqua regia to dissolve the metals - say, 320 ml of HCl and 80 ml of nitric. You added 700 ml of HCl and 370ml of nitric. The extra 380 ml of HCl won't cause any problems, but the extra 290 ml of nitric will cause big problems. As long as this extra nitric is there, the SMB won't drop the gold. So, you somehow must get rid of this nitric before dropping the gold.
> 
> There are basically 5 methods of getting rid of excess nitric. You should have studied everything on this post before attempting to process that material. I'll let someone else give you the details. I don't have much experience with these because I can't remember using too much nitric during the last 30 years.
> (1) With small amounts of nitric, SMB will decompose and eliminate it. However, a toxic nasty gas, SO2 will be released and, for 290 ml of nitric, it will take a lot of SMB. In this case, I wouldn't recommend this.
> ...







lot of thanks dear friend you help me lot.....please tell me what you offer to me ? i dont have any experians this is my first gold refine proses...are the sulfamic is the best way to me to do it? and after i eliminate the nitric acid i drop the gold with s.m.b? if i want to eliminate the nitric acid how much s.m.b i will need in grams? lot of thanks for helping me and for responding..thanks


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 29, 2016)

please if i understod corect that i could solve the problem with lot of s.m.b how much grams i will need and how ill do that?? thanks for respon and helping me


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 29, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> please if i understod corect that i could solve the problem with lot of s.m.b how much grams i will need and how ill do that?? thanks for respon and helping me




Sulfamic acid. 1 pound into hot water. Affer dissolving crystal in water. Add to your AR.

Filter to remove lead sulfate.

Add amount of s.m.b. you expect gold to drop, plus a bit extra.
By a bit, i mean a gram or 2, NOT pound or two.
I.E. 5g Au = 5g-7g s.m.b.

Sulfamic acid is a crystal form acid used to clean tile grout.


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## 4metals (Apr 29, 2016)

Urea will form the red cloud which we all know enough to avoid. Sulfamic forms a clear cloud of nitrous oxide. This man is working without a hood to get the fume up and away. I personally would rather see my enemy!


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## g_axelsson (Apr 29, 2016)

With that excessive amount of acids used I would use evaporation, it would bring down the volume and not add a lot of extra salts to complicate matters.

I would expect around 3 g of gold, with the copper already removed with copper chloride it was only gold foils left... the amount of acid used was over 100 times of what was really needed.

Göran


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 29, 2016)

Read this thread. You must do some of the work yourself.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=23767&hilit=sulfamic+acid&start=0


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## solar_plasma (Apr 29, 2016)

I see the biggest problem in the fact that he continously translates the answers wrongly. He isn't able to understand, what we are telling him. 

This is a dangerous blend!

First of all you need to learn english!!! Read Hoke, read Library and you will obtain both language skills and refining knowledge.


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## butcher (Apr 30, 2016)

There are a couple of way I would deal with this, cover and save the solution in a safe location and study (probably the best way).

You could also dissolve more gold or foils in it, and, or evaporated it down (a waste of acid as dangerous gases), you can do both. Evaporating to drive off water, then the nitric acid with heat (do not boil). When solution is very concentrated add just enough HCl to keep the solution liquid. You do not want to evaporate all of the liquid to salts. With as much sulfuric acid as you used I doubt you will have any problems with this mess, (way too much acid). The HCl addition may make a red cloud when added, an indication you still have free nitric acid. Continue to evaporate bring the solution to concentrated liquid (almost syrup) again, repeat the small HCl addition (just to keep wet), evaporate off that HCl addition, Note if you were dissolving more gold or foils into solution it will be using up the acid as you concentrate the solution...

Test a drop of the solution with stannous chloride SnCl2 (you can make this testing solution yourself with 95 percent tin metal and HCl acid) study it on the forum...

Note if you have too much nitric acid in solution this test will not work, for the test to work it must reduce the gold to gold metal colloids (the purple color of the test), too much nitric acid will keep the gold from making the metal gold that gives the test its purple color. After you eliminate the free nitric acid you should see the purple of Cassius color of the positive test for gold (as long as there is gold dissolved in solution).

After eliminating the free nitric acid. At this point you can recover your gold , sulfamic acid can be used (if needed), but if you follow instruction this far you should have eliminated the free nitric acid. The stannous test is not only a good indication of gold in solution, but it can also be helpful in indications of too much free nitric acid left in solution. Here you can use SMB to precipitate your gold, or a use a clean thick bar of copper to cement the gold...


Put the waste solutions in a plastic bucket and add the bar of copper. This will collect any values you missed, if it makes a black powder save it, that is some of your gold. Separate any black power and save it. With the barren solution, add a sheet of steel or iron, some of this iron will dissolve into solution, and the copper will come out of solution as metal, (save the copper), after no more copper comes out of solution, (saturated with iron), decant the solution, and add a base (or caustic solution) to it, (carefully), sodium hydroxide works well, (but is very reactive so if you use it, add it slowly and carefully so as not to create a foam over or violent reactions, or heating the bucket up too much...), lime, powdered lime stone or some other bases will work, (see dealing with waste in the safety section for details). The goal here is to bring the pH up to around 9 where most of the dangerous metals will form hydroxides, and settle of solution. Let it settle and decant the solution, dry out sludge as you collect them. Then add acid in very small amounts back to the solution, until you get it to a pH 7 neutral, some metal can precipitate again decant the salt water and safely dispose of, it can still kill plants or harm fish, or harm a septic tank... pH paper will work or you can use pH indicator solutions, digital pH meters can be found for reasonable price and are well worth the purchase...

Once you get out of this mess, and get the few dollars of gold back. Put away your dangerous chemicals at this point all your going to do with them is lose your gold and make toxic and deadly messes.and hurt yourself or others. this is not child's play. Go to the safety section and study. Download Hokes book and study. Study the forum...

You do not get gold by mixing acids and metals with no clue of what is happening, or by melting rock with no idea of the dangers, playing chemist with no clue of what can happen, that would just be stupid and dangerous, an accident waiting to happen.

You are wanting to learn a profession, this is not just a read a few things a do it, or something a friend can tell you how it works and you can do it. This profession of precious metal recovery and refining like other professions will take work and time to learn. many things besides chemistry is involved here,as you may already have some idea of chemistry can easily create explosive mixes, dangerous or deadly gases or solution, this is not child's play. do not act like a child trying things you really do not understand the dangers of...
This is not something you are going to learn by asking a million questions, like many professions you will need to learn the basic principles, you will need to understand the dangers. you have to spend time like an apprentice studying. even before practicing what you are studying.
You do not give a small child a tool box and a cutting torch and tell him to have fun fixing your new car, or show him a video and turn him loose on your car with a lit cutting torch. He will have to spend some time learning before he will be able to fix your car, if he is interested in learning and spends time to learn that profession he will make a good mechanic in the future.
My purpose is to help you, some of the way I try to do that is to try to get you to understand some of the dangers. and get you to see that dumping acid on metals is just plain foolish unless you have some idea of what your doing, you are putting yourself and others in extreme danger, a few dollars of gold is not worth your health, or someones life, would you trade your eyesight for couple of grams of gold? if so I bet the world if full of blind men who will be willing to buy your eyeballs, I just bet they will pay much more in gold than what you have in your beakers right now...

Welcome to the forum, if you are serious about learning these professional skills you have found the best place possible. If you are willing to spend the time to learn it. If you are not serious about spending years learning, I suggest you just put up the acids. Maybe just buy and sell your scrap and gold, (where you will also need to study to get good at). There is just too much to this art and skill, it is also just too dangerous to fool around with, if you are not truly serious. or serious enough to educate yourself in the field.

If you are serious the skills can take years to learn, but the education can be more valuable than the metals you collect while learning. Like other professions you can spend lifetimes learning more about this, and will never learn it all. That way we are always adding more value to our education, it remains interesting, and you continue on your quest to learn more, which can help you to add value to that pot of gold.
PLEASE I NEED HELP ITS REALY S.O.S
SOS -----------Stop Overlooking Safety
Hope this helps.


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 30, 2016)

hello dear friends..lot of thanks for helping me.i had an importent lesson..ill read and read again until i will know exectly what to do..lot of thanks dear friends..if ill have a problem or somthing that i dont anderstand ill post it here..the best forum..thanks


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 30, 2016)

butcher said:


> There are a couple of way I would deal with this, cover and save the solution in a safe location and study (probably the best way).
> 
> You could also dissolve more gold or foils in it, and, or evaporated it down (a waste of acid as dangerous gases), you can do both. Evaporating to drive off water, then the nitric acid with heat (do not boil). When solution is very concentrated add just enough HCl to keep the solution liquid. You do not want to evaporate all of the liquid to salts. With as much sulfuric acid as you used I doubt you will have any problems with this mess, (way too much acid). The HCl addition may make a red cloud when added, an indication you still have free nitric acid. Continue to evaporate bring the solution to concentrated liquid (almost syrup) again, repeat the small HCl addition (just to keep wet), evaporate off that HCl addition, Note if you were dissolving more gold or foils into solution it will be using up the acid as you concentrate the solution...
> 
> ...






lot of thanks dear friend for your very good respond and that you spend your time to help me and give me lot informatoins im thankfull to you..i ecsept your and other friend like goran to use the evaporate optoin..ill start it now on low\medum heat..i put all the solutoin 1200 ml on 3 liter beaker and left it for evaporateing..ill do exectly what you and goran told me to do..after cupel time that ill add hc acid and ill see that no reactoin any mor ill let it cool filter it with buchner funnel and ill add 2-3 tea spoon of s.m.b to drop the gold..am i corect?? can i cool the solutoin wit ice mad from tap water?..thanks for your respond


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## autumnwillow (Apr 30, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> lot of thanks dear friend for your very good respond and that you spend your time to help me and give me lot informatoins im thankfull to you..i ecsept your and other friend like goran to use the evaporate optoin..ill start it now on low\medum heat..i put all the solutoin 1200 ml on 3 liter beaker and left it for evaporateing..ill do exectly what you and goran told me to do..after cupel time that ill add hc acid and ill see that no reactoin any mor ill let it cool filter it with buchner funnel and ill add 2-3 tea spoon of s.m.b to drop the gold..am i corect?? can i cool the solutoin wit ice mad from tap water?..thanks for your respond



Evaporate at *low* heat.
Dilute three times its current volume.
Add ice made from distilled water.
Drop with SMB. Do not mix, just wait a few minutes. Repeat until the top solution is clear.
Let it settle overnight or until the top liquid is clear.
Remove the liquid, gold should now be at the bottom.
Wash with cold HCL until no color change.
Wash with boiling distilled water three times.
Dry.
Melt with a pinch of borax.

These steps are specific to your current situation only.

*I am assuming your solution is clear already. If there is any precipitate before SMB, add sulfuric acid and re-filter.


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 30, 2016)

butcher said:


> There are a couple of way I would deal with this, cover and save the solution in a safe location and study (probably the best way).
> 
> You could also dissolve more gold or foils in it, and, or evaporated it down (a waste of acid as dangerous gases), you can do both. Evaporating to drive off water, then the nitric acid with heat (do not boil). When solution is very concentrated add just enough HCl to keep the solution liquid. You do not want to evaporate all of the liquid to salts. With as much sulfuric acid as you used I doubt you will have any problems with this mess, (way too much acid). The HCl addition may make a red cloud when added, an indication you still have free nitric acid. Continue to evaporate bring the solution to concentrated liquid (almost syrup) again, repeat the small HCl addition (just to keep wet), evaporate off that HCl addition, Note if you were dissolving more gold or foils into solution it will be using up the acid as you concentrate the solution...
> 
> ...





lot of thanks dear frend you help me and im thankfull to you and to goran and to all the members that helped me


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## butcher (Apr 30, 2016)

ALON 1969
I like your attitude, keep studying my friend, that time will not be wasted, you can learn to find, collect, and prepare your scrap in the mean time, and you will get the most from your work.

Educating yourself is the treasure map to that gold, work on the treasure map and finding your gold becomes easier.


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 30, 2016)

butcher said:


> ALON 1969
> I like your attitude, keep studying my friend, that time will not be wasted, you can learn to find, collect, and prepare your scrap in the mean time, and you will get the most from your work.
> 
> Educating yourself is the treasure map to that gold, work on the treasure map and finding your gold becomes easier.


 thanks ill do that dear friend..you are very nice person..god bless you as well


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 30, 2016)

autumnwillow said:


> ALON 1969 said:
> 
> 
> > lot of thanks dear friend for your very good respond and that you spend your time to help me and give me lot informatoins im thankfull to you..i ecsept your and other friend like goran to use the evaporate optoin..ill start it now on low\medum heat..i put all the solutoin 1200 ml on 3 liter beaker and left it for evaporateing..ill do exectly what you and goran told me to do..after cupel time that ill add hc acid and ill see that no reactoin any mor ill let it cool filter it with buchner funnel and ill add 2-3 tea spoon of s.m.b to drop the gold..am i corect?? can i cool the solutoin wit ice mad from tap water?..thanks for your respond
> ...




you told me to "Dilute three times its current volume." with H.C or with distiled water?


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 30, 2016)

artart47 said:


> Hi Alon!
> VERY IMPORTANT! The respirator you have will not protect you from the red nitric fumes! No respirator will. Make sure the wind is blowing from your left or right side so you don't get any fumes!
> artart47.




thanks for this importent information..i want to ask you please if ill use a meilitery musck you know this musck its against chimeist bomb and biologic bomb..are this musck will be good until ill get my fume hood?..thanks for your respond


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 30, 2016)

He meant to dilute your AR solution - AFTER you have removed all nitric from it.

So, add 3 times the amount of water as you have auric chloride.

Again, ONLY AFTER you have evaporated 3 times...maybe even 4 (to be determined by amount of NO2 red cloud that comes from adding HCl to the concentrated syrup)

THEN, add your 5 grams of SMB

But, you should really add a few ml of sulfuric acid while evaporating.

It will help prevent a crust from forming, also, it will make lead precipitate as insoluble lead sulfate. Which should be filtered out BEFORE adding Smb

Hokes book will give you all these guidelines and steps.

Best of luck


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 30, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> He meant to dilute your AR solution - AFTER you have removed all nitric from it.
> 
> So, add 3 times the amount of water as you have auric chloride.
> 
> ...





thank you very much dear friend..if i added already about 25-30ml of sulfuric acid when the first A.R wass cool i have to add some mor?


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## artart47 (Apr 30, 2016)

Hi Alon!
Reading what my friends here have written, there is no mask for nitric fumes. Two things you can do!
1. You have your beakers/flasks inside a fume-hood box. Fans suction air out the top and make the nitric fumes move away from you.
2. You work outside so that the air is moving FROM your right or left, it moves across in front of you and takes the fumes away.
Also! What I was thinking is that if you want to just collect your gold as a powder. Then just put it away for a time. You will then download "Hoke's book" find a friend who reads English to help you study the things she teaches, do the experiments in her book and keep studying our forum until you receive the understanding the you must have to do this refining. Then you can refine your gold powder and if you have a problem we can help you and you will understand.

A way to drop the gold powder. It is called "cementing on copper" search for it in our search box.
Find thick pieces of copper. like the long bars that are inside the box where the electricity comes into your home. Or large copper pipe that you cut along one side then open it until you can hammer it and make it flat.
Put the copper pieces in the solution with the gold. the acid will attack the copper until all of the acid is gone. then the copper will replace the gold and the gold will turn back to metal. It won't look like gold. it will be black powder and it will form on the surface of the copper. It will fall off the copper and collect in the bottom of the beaker.
SEARCH BOX " decanting" "testing for gold" Study until you know exactly what you are doing and why you do it.
your gold will be waiting for you!
art.


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## ALON 1969 (Apr 30, 2016)

artart47 said:


> Hi Alon!
> Reading what my friends here have written, there is no mask for nitric fumes. Two things you can do!
> 1. You have your beakers/flasks inside a fume-hood box. Fans suction air out the top and make the nitric fumes move away from you.
> 2. You work outside so that the air is moving FROM your right or left, it moves across in front of you and takes the fumes away.
> ...





thank you dear art..i start already the evaporated process thats all the friend here recomended me to do that...i start the evaporated 6huer ago and the solution back to nice yelow color from dark orang..now i turn off the medum heat and ill start it again tomorow morning..its 3.15 Am in israel now...thanks and good night dear art..


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 30, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> thank you very much dear friend..if i added already about 25-30ml of sulfuric acid when the first A.R wass cool i have to add some mor?



I would think that is enough sulfuric, assuming that there was no lead that got pulled into solution with your gold. And, even if the solution was cool when you added the sulfuric, I'm sure it probably warmed up quite a bit... Sulfurix acid has a GREAT affinity for water. If there is water around, sulfuric will gobble it up...even the water in your skin, so tread carefully, and don't spill a drop.

You say your solution went from orange to yellow.

How thick is it now?

I am going to assume that it is not very thick at all, and probably wont be until the volume has gone down SIGNIFICANTLY. If i recall correctly, you had 1,200 ml of AR for about 5 grams of gold.

You will most likely need to evaporate down to 100-200 ml or less before it even begins to thicken up like syrup. When you add the HCl, don't add a litre, just enough to expell the nitric fumes and thin the syrup.

If you add a litre each time, you will have to evaporate a week's time to get the nitric out of your solution.

It would be a great benefit to you, to add a button of refined gold to your solution while evaporating. It will help remove the nitric fumes by consuming the gold.

If this field is something that interests you, AFTER you get to a good stopping point on this project, and AFTER reading hoke, you should research these things-
-HCl/Bleach to dissolve gold (works well with foils and refined (powder) gold, and much much easier to get to precipitation
-sulfamic acid
-Stannous Chloride (it is the eyes of the refiner)
-cementing on copper
-"the stock pot"
-"dealing with waste"
-"situations to avoid"
-"build a fume hood"

The ones in quotes are the names of threads on this forum (maybe not the exact name, but close)

Go to google. In the search box type "site:www.goldrefiningforum.com xxxxxxxxx"(don't type the quotes, and replace the xxxxxx with whatever you are wanting to research)

These subjects (and Hoke's book ESPECIALLY) will have you well on your way to becoming a beginner... A beginner with adequate knowledge to maybe try a refining session or two. 

But, fret not friend, we all (almost all anyways) made the same mistakes (not exactly THIS mistake, but close) in one way or another...but in the end, we all found our way here, and the forum is a great place.

Refiners helping refiners-
But, I must add, that -we can and will- only be able to help you so much. As there is no way possible to fully describe in detail how to refine in just a few short sentences. It takes a great deal of study, patience, and perseverance. And only you can take the initiative to find the knowledge you seek.

Best of luck to you friend... Now be safe, and keep us posted on your progress.


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## g_axelsson (Apr 30, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> It would be a great benefit to you, to add a button of refined gold to your solution while evaporating. It will help remove the nitric fumes by consuming the gold.


Not a good advice when there is such a large excess of nitric. For a liter of excess AR he would need a quarter of a kilo gold button to consume all nitric.
It's great when you have added a bit too much nitric, but not this much. Even adding 100 grams of gold in this case wouldn't change the situation very much.

Göran


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 30, 2016)

g_axelsson said:


> Topher_osAUrus said:
> 
> 
> > It would be a great benefit to you, to add a button of refined gold to your solution while evaporating. It will help remove the nitric fumes by consuming the gold.
> ...



I was meaning to put on the second or third evaporation cycle.
 

Which, brings me to a question.

How much nitric can be exhausted in a single evaporation cycle.
Will he have to evaporate more than 3 times?
Or is it more like:
-first evaporation removes half of nitric in solution, second evaporation removes half of the half, and third evaporation rids the remainder?

-topher, the spoon-fed


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## butcher (May 1, 2016)

The first evaporation can eliminate most all of the nitric acid. But (there is always those buts).

Water will mostly evaporate first as it is more volatile, then nitric acid as the solution concentrates, then HCl acid as we get much more concentrated, sulfuric acid helps as it is not very volatile and takes pretty high temperatures to distill off H2SO4, so even if by accident we drive off all of the free HCl (or even go so far as to begin to drive off chlorides from the gold salts), this is where it helps to have added some H2SO4, to keep us from cooking the gold solution to more dryer salts by over evaporation by mistake. We do not remove each of these as pure gases as in some stages of evaporation these come of mixed during portions of the evaporation process. 

Let’s say you start with just water at room temperature (approximately 70°F) and want to boil it. You turn on the stove, which proceeds to add heat to the water, adding heat to it as energy, increasing the waters temperature one degree at a time until the water reaches the boiling point of water @ 212°F (sea level, open atmosphere...). the temperature of the water will maintain 212 degrees (no matter how much more fire you put under the pot). It’s still just water at this point, some evaporation can occur, but we are not driving the water off as steam or gas yet . Although the added heat is increasingly the heat added to the hot water. 
Once at 212°, the water begins to boil off as gas. You may have never thought about it before, but once it’s boiling, the water is essentially constant at 212° because it takes a lot of heat to convert all of the water into gas even after the average temperature in the pot has reached the boiling point, the temperature of the solution will not change until we reach the boiling point of water.

Lets say we just have dilute nitric acid, we would evaporate mainly water at first the nitric would concentrate, as we evaporated off or distilled off mostly water (first), the temperature of solution would not rise until the solution reached the boiling point for that concentration (no matter how much fire we put under the pot) as we concentrate the boiling points change... the different substances like H2O, HNO3, HCl, H2SO4 each have different boiling points, (and each have different boiling points for the different concentrations with water...).

well I think I am getting off subject rambling on, back to the subject.

Most of the nitric acid can be removed with the first concentration. taking the solution down to almost pure azeotropic HCl or gold chloride, impurity's of other metals like sodium, copper, or other metals can form nitrate salts, which when concentrated enough can crystalize out of solution.
We know adding acid to these salts can make nitric acid (or re-make nitric acid in this case) as the nitrate salt takes on the hydrogen of hydronium ions...

This is where you may evaporated the solution down the first time, concentrating these salts, and we can see the red cloud when adding a little bit of HCl (note the HCl is about 80 percent water), so it is also adding water back to the concentrated solution we will need to evaporate back off to get to the point we were at before we added the HCl, converting the salts back to nitric, then driving off water and concentrating the nitric to its boiling point again to drive off or to distill off this small amount of newly created nitric in solution, with further evaporation...

How many evaporation's will it take? Heck I do not know, but I think it may depend on how pure your gold solution is (where nitrate salts are less likely to form), or How close to evaporating most all of the acids from the salts, and cooking of nitrates (which is not our goal). Or how much nitric HCl or even H2SO4 was involved and probably a dozen or more other variables... 

One evaporation may work, two may be needed, three is normally enough to get the job done. You may need more for dirty contaminated solutions full of copper or other metals that can easily form nitrate salts... 
The thing is the first evaporation takes the longest to get rid of most of the solution and get it concentrated, the small additions of HCl do not add much volume and so the second and third evaporation go quickly from this point...


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 1, 2016)

Excellent information Butcher.

And so elegantly put, I admire your thoroughness and how pedantic you are with the information you share with everyone.

ALON, take great notes, and study up on the english language. You will do well here. There are a bunch of members who have given you an abundance of help and elaboration on what steps to take.

Some new members that come to the forum with themselves in a predicament, don't get such a warm welcome. Whether its because they are demanding answers, or refuse to study-wanting to be spoon fed, or don't like what answers they do get-and then fish for another one-then do everything opposite that has been advised to them. They just don't get received well, usually on their own behalf...because every member here is helpful, but especially so to those who can show that they can help themselves to at least some degree.

I have a good feeling that you will do well here and in your refining adventure. There are a GREAT many members here that did not have english as their mother language, and, in part from this forum (and their hard work, and study), they are VERY fluent now. 

Keep us informed of your progress.

Butcher, again, many thanks to you for all you do and share.

-topher, the thankful


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## ALON 1969 (May 1, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> ALON 1969 said:
> 
> 
> > thank you very much dear friend..if i added already about 25-30ml of sulfuric acid when the first A.R wass cool i have to add some mor?
> ...





lot of thanks to you dear friend..i start with 1200 ml now after 6 hours left to me like 100 ml of solution..i did not get yet the fume hood so i work only at evening becous it to hot outside and i dont know if i can work with the A.R and evaporate at sun lihte..ill be happy to know this answer..lot of thanks dear friend you helpd me lot and im thankful for that..have a nice day


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 1, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> lot of thanks to you dear friend..i start with 1200 ml now after 6 hours left to me like 100 ml of solution..i did not get yet the fume hood so i work only at evening becous it to hot outside and i dont know if i can work with the A.R and evaporate at sun lihte..ill be happy to know this answer..lot of thanks dear friend you helpd me lot and im thankful for that..have a nice day



Don't mention it!

Anything I can do to help (so long as it's something I know)

So long as you dont have close neighbors, or anything metal that will be destroyed (which, would, most likely be there at night too?) you can evaporate during the day.

Doing it during the day may even be more beneficial because of the increase in ambient temperature. That, and the fact that nitric decomposes in sunlight (at low concentration Im not sure how much it would help, but you still don't have to evaporate solely at night.-but, you would know if it's plausible much better than me...after all, it's your neighborhood)

I work during the day as often as I can. I also work at night as often as I can. Right now its 4:30 am here, and I will probably be evaporating my solution for a couple more hours myself.

Oh the joys of refining :mrgreen: 

-topher, the tireless


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## ALON 1969 (May 1, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> ALON 1969 said:
> 
> 
> > lot of thanks to you dear friend..i start with 1200 ml now after 6 hours left to me like 100 ml of solution..i did not get yet the fume hood so i work only at evening becous it to hot outside and i dont know if i can work with the A.R and evaporate at sun lihte..ill be happy to know this answer..lot of thanks dear friend you helpd me lot and im thankful for that..have a nice day
> ...







hello dear friend topher..i told you that left me 100 ml it wass ny mistake left me 1000ml..1 liter of solution..im realy thankfull to you! im doing exectly what you told me to do..if ill have any isuss or problem or gods know with my process ill post you soon as posibal..i hope you understand my bad english..sorry for that..and again lot of thanks to you dear friend and thanks to al the friends are helped me..im happy that i found this forum with very nice persons that help echother..have a nice day and nice weekend..god bless you as well.....Alon


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 1, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> hello dear friend topher..i told you that left me 100 ml it wass ny mistake left me 1000ml..1 liter of solution..im realy thankfull to you! im doing exectly what you told me to do..if ill have any isuss or problem or gods know with my process ill post you soon as posibal..i hope you understand my bad english..sorry for that..and again lot of thanks to you dear friend and thanks to al the friends are helped me..im happy that i found this forum with very nice persons that help echother..have a nice day and nice weekend..god bless you as well.....Alon



Don't worry about it, I am indebted to this forum for the endless amount of help and knowledge I have received, and continue to absorb... Learning should never stop, it keeps going. Rolling along like a snowball going downhill gaining more and more snow. (bad analogy, but I'm going on 2 hours of sleep...my kids are staying with their grandma right now, so I had to seize the opportunity to work and build up my gold stash and labspace)

I am quite new to the forum, and refining in general. Having only refined a total of 41.3 grams so far in about a years time, but, I have read Hoke and feel now I can actually begin to give back to the forum. That book, to me, is my bible (along with the good threads in this forum), for the words contained in them have surely saved me. So, I'm just trying to spread the good word.

Alon, I can understand your english fine, as grammatically it is pretty well spot-on. The spelling is the only issue with it (like I can talk, my phone has a mind of its own as far as when it does or doesn't autocorrect..) To me, it's fine, as i have spoke english my entire life...the only issue that may arise, is from other non-native-english speakers, who are trying to use google translate or another program like that. It may not be able to find or correct the words you are trying to relay. It will come to you though. With practice, patience, and persistent study you will be good...damn good.. Then, if refining doesn't suit you as a profession (just a part time hobby or..?), you could always get paid to be a translator! Win-win!

Have a good wrap-up to your weekend. Be safe, and thorough.

Until we speak again.

-topher


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## ALON 1969 (May 1, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> ALON 1969 said:
> 
> 
> > hello dear friend topher..i told you that left me 100 ml it wass ny mistake left me 1000ml..1 liter of solution..im realy thankfull to you! im doing exectly what you told me to do..if ill have any isuss or problem or gods know with my process ill post you soon as posibal..i hope you understand my bad english..sorry for that..and again lot of thanks to you dear friend and thanks to al the friends are helped me..im happy that i found this forum with very nice persons that help echother..have a nice day and nice weekend..god bless you as well.....Alon
> ...





thanks dear friend for your worm word..i hope to be good inaf to help another members on this forum when i get my expierians.im new here and im very greatfull that i found this forum with the best persons with knowledge and good will..thats the most importent..i wish you to sleep well ..again lot of thanks to you dear friend have a nice and safe weekend....Alon


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## ALON 1969 (May 3, 2016)

goldsilverpro said:


> From my calculations, i figured that you had about 95 grams total weight of gold, copper, and nickel on the fingers. That would take about 400 ml of aqua regia to dissolve the metals - say, 320 ml of HCl and 80 ml of nitric. You added 700 ml of HCl and 370ml of nitric. The extra 380 ml of HCl won't cause any problems, but the extra 290 ml of nitric will cause big problems. As long as this extra nitric is there, the SMB won't drop the gold. So, you somehow must get rid of this nitric before dropping the gold.
> 
> There are basically 5 methods of getting rid of excess nitric. You should have studied everything on this post before attempting to process that material. I'll let someone else give you the details. I don't have much experience with these because I can't remember using too much nitric during the last 30 years.
> (1) With small amounts of nitric, SMB will decompose and eliminate it. However, a toxic nasty gas, SO2 will be released and, for 290 ml of nitric, it will take a lot of SMB. In this case, I wouldn't recommend this.
> ...




"(4) Evaporation. This involves evaporating to nearly a syrup, adding a little HCl, evaporating, adding HCl, evaporating - repeat a couple more times. Then dilute, filter, drop the gold"
#please i want to ask when i will add the HCL to the syrop the solutoin must to be cold or worm\hot?


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## artart47 (May 3, 2016)

Hi Alon !
I would like to suggest that while your solution is simmering down, use the time to go on the search and study this evaporation. Per-haps one of our members have a video? 
You want to be very careful near the end of the evaporation. Gold chloride can evaporate and be lost!
You must be very patient and really watch it constantly. The first time I did this, the solution was just starting to thicken and I think I had the heat too high, I walked away for just a few minutes and all of a sudden, The small beaker was almost completely dry and was smoking! It happened so fast.
I don't know if I lost some gold that went up in the smoke because I was new to this and didn't really know how much gold was in the solution in the beginning.
Really look for all the information you can find about it so you don't make a mistake! Go slow. a little at a time.
Good luck! 
Art.


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## ALON 1969 (May 3, 2016)

artart47 said:


> Hi Alon !
> I would like to suggest that while your solution is simmering down, use the time to go on the search and study this evaporation. Per-haps one of our members have a video?
> You want to be very careful near the end of the evaporation. Gold chloride can evaporate and be lost!
> You must be very patient and really watch it constantly. The first time I did this, the solution was just starting to thicken and I think I had the heat too high, I walked away for just a few minutes and all of a sudden, The small beaker was almost completely dry and was smoking! It happened so fast.
> ...



hello dear art..thanks for your respond..im doing it exectly like you worhot me..litel by littel..i took sampel of 25 ml from the solution cool it with distield ice water and diluit it x3 mean 75 ml solutoin. i added the S.M.B and it wass very fine..i dropd the gold. ther wass no red fumes and no violent reactoin and i melt a litel ball of gold with a pinch of borax..im reading a lot the forum liberey .im realy thankfull to you and to this great forum..i start with 1200 ml of solutoin and now i got lttel less the 400 ml(in 3 liter beaker) i think when it will be on 200 ml i will add like 100 ml of H.C.L and keep evaporateing until it will be again 200 ml and ill do it again mor 2 times and diluiet x3 with distiled water and then ill drop with S.M.B with out red fumes or agresiv reactoin...lot of thanks to you..ill up date you with my process..have a nice day dear friend...Alon


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## artart47 (May 3, 2016)

Add HCl 5 or 6ml at a time. keep doing that until you add some and there is no reaction. then stop adding more and start evaporating again.
don't just start with 100ml. You may only need 15 or 20ml. You may only need 30ml. That was how you were supposed add the nitric in the beginning. a little at a time until all the gold is dissolved so you don't get too much nitric. Now! To force the nitric out. HCl a little at a time until adding more doesn't cause a reaction. If you get more than you need, you just have more to evaporate.
In your last post you said " I think that when it is down to 200ml I'll add more HCl and then evaporate it again. No! that is not correct. You have to watch the solution carefully! You might have to go down to 75ml or per-haps 50ml. you won't know until it gets there.
Now, your solution moves around ,thin, like water if you stir it. keep evaporating until it starts to get thick, like syrup (The stuff you put on pan cakes) or like motor oil. If you add HCl before then, It won't get rid of the nitric.
Art.


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## ALON 1969 (May 4, 2016)

artart47 said:


> Add HCl 5 or 6ml at a time. keep doing that until you add some and there is no reaction. then stop adding more and start evaporating again.
> don't just start with 100ml. You may only need 15 or 20ml. You may only need 30ml. That was how you were supposed add the nitric in the beginning. a little at a time until all the gold is dissolved so you don't get too much nitric. Now! To force the nitric out. HCl a little at a time until adding more doesn't cause a reaction. If you get more than you need, you just have more to evaporate.
> In your last post you said " I think that when it is down to 200ml I'll add more HCl and then evaporate it again. No! that is not correct. You have to watch the solution carefully! You might have to go down to 75ml or per-haps 50ml. you won't know until it gets there.
> Now, your solution moves around ,thin, like water if you stir it. keep evaporating until it starts to get thick, like syrup (The stuff you put on pan cakes) or like motor oil. If you add HCl before then, It won't get rid of the nitric.
> Art.





HEllo dear Art how are you..first i want to thank you! im doing it exectly..i adedd mor foils to the solutoin and it helped a little to "kil" the nitric acid..i tooked (again) 25 ml from the (400 ml) solutoin i cool it with disteild ice water and disteild water x3 times (75 ml) when i adedd the S.M.B ther wass no reactoin (agresive like befor) the S.M.B DROPD the gold and the color of the solution wass clear and clean and on the botom wass like black sand... i wass realy happy that it worked..i tooked this "black gold" and put it to the "big" solutoin and the gold disolve so fast againso now im waiting to the solutoin be like 250-300 ml ( im stil evaporateing) ill cool it filter and drop the gold with the "S.M.B"..please what you recomended to me to do after? clean the"black sand" to be on brown color or melt it like this ? i want a good resoltes and nice bar...some friends told me to refine it again for 99.99 and they told me to be carefull when im melting it with a pinch of borax that the gold can be sthiking to the borax..if it will hapend how ill solve this matter?...lot of thanks dear friend and thanks very much to this ameizing persons forum..Alon


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## butcher (May 4, 2016)

Harold's post in the help needed section is what you are looking for,(getting gold pure and shiny) here he explains a washing technique to wash your gold powder.

If there are many base metals I would refine the gold powder a second time to clean it up before the washing procedure.

Do not forget doing the study in the safety section, protecting yourself from dangers, and dealing with wastes.

If you choose to refine the gold again for high purity remember not to make the same mistake of using too much acids.

To dissolve one gram of gold it will take somewhere around 3.8ml of HCl and about 0.95ml of HNO3 (added in small increments) heating towards the end of the reactions...

Before melting or any step for that matter I suggest studying it. make sure the dish or material is what you need to get the job done, you may even wish to test the dish to see it can hold up before you melt gold in it. Learn how to prepare your dish...


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## ALON 1969 (May 4, 2016)

butcher said:


> Harold's post in the help needed section is what you are looking for,(getting gold pure and shiny) here he explains a washing technique to wash your gold powder.
> 
> If there are many base metals I would refine the gold powder a second time to clean it up before the washing procedure.
> 
> ...




thank you for this information but i have another problem: after i cool the solutoin with disteild ice water i dilueited x3 times with distild water i test it with smal 50ml i added the S.M.B the gold wass droped and evry thing wass ok on this test but when i adedd the SMB to the 1600 ml solution the solutoin changd the color to browon\black and it stays like this its not clear solutoin up like it wass on the small test!! why? what i have to do? please i need your help!!! i realy dont know what hapend..please help me dear friends


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## ALON 1969 (May 4, 2016)

butcher said:


> There are a couple of way I would deal with this, cover and save the solution in a safe location and study (probably the best way).
> 
> You could also dissolve more gold or foils in it, and, or evaporated it down (a waste of acid as dangerous gases), you can do both. Evaporating to drive off water, then the nitric acid with heat (do not boil). When solution is very concentrated add just enough HCl to keep the solution liquid. You do not want to evaporate all of the liquid to salts. With as much sulfuric acid as you used I doubt you will have any problems with this mess, (way too much acid). The HCl addition may make a red cloud when added, an indication you still have free nitric acid. Continue to evaporate bring the solution to concentrated liquid (almost syrup) again, repeat the small HCl addition (just to keep wet), evaporate off that HCl addition, Note if you were dissolving more gold or foils into solution it will be using up the acid as you concentrate the solution...
> 
> ...





yes it helped thank you. but now i have another problem..the gold did not dropd with the SMB..i dont know what to do


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## ALON 1969 (May 4, 2016)

autumnwillow said:


> ALON 1969 said:
> 
> 
> > lot of thanks dear friend for your very good respond and that you spend your time to help me and give me lot informatoins im thankfull to you..i ecsept your and other friend like goran to use the evaporate optoin..ill start it now on low\medum heat..i put all the solutoin 1200 ml on 3 liter beaker and left it for evaporateing..ill do exectly what you and goran told me to do..after cupel time that ill add hc acid and ill see that no reactoin any mor ill let it cool filter it with buchner funnel and ill add 2-3 tea spoon of s.m.b to drop the gold..am i corect?? can i cool the solutoin wit ice mad from tap water?..thanks for your respond
> ...






" Evaporate at low heat.
Dilute three times its current volume.
Add ice made from distilled water.
Drop with SMB. Do not mix, just wait a few minutes. Repeat until the top solution is clear.
Let it settle overnight or until the top liquid is clear.
Remove the liquid, gold should now be at the bottom "

i did exectly what you told me..but when i added the SMB the solutoin only changd the color to browon\black durty and it stay like this the gold not droped to the botom...why?? ther wass not any reactoin the color after i filter it wass very nice pure yelow and now it stay like this and nothing changed after 90 minutes..when i dud test with 50 ml on smal 250ml beaker the SMB droped the gold but now the big solutoin( 1600ml after diluited) is browon\black durty and dont changed the color...i realy dont know what is it or what hapend...please i need help..thanks for responding me...Alon


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## ALON 1969 (May 4, 2016)

dear friends maybe my problem is LOW OR HIGH P.H ?? i hope i did not lost the gold ..i added mor fiols means now thars 12-15 grams...please i need help..thank you dear friends for helping me...im realy afraid the i lot all the gold that wass on this solution


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 4, 2016)

After you added your smb, the solution changed to black, and the gold has not dropped? Correct?

You may want to try a few things.

Let it sit a day or two, see if it settles out (i had a batch take 7 days to fully settle)

Try gently warming the solution while softly stirring every now and then.

Add more water. Hot water.

Im sure there are other things that could be done, but, on both of the solutions i had this happen to me on, those remedied my problem.

It happens, i believe, from dirty solutions where the gold cannot agglomerate easily.

-topher


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 4, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> dear friends maybe my problem is LOW OR HIGH P.H ?? i hope i did not lost the gold ..i added mor fiols means now thars 12-15 grams...please i need help..thank you dear friends for helping me...im realy afraid the i lot all the gold that wass on this solution




Did the foils you add have tin?

You ran the fingers in copper chloride (AP) first to rid them of base metals, right?

Then rinsed them in HCl 3 times right?

Then water?

Were the rinses clean?

Black can be colloidal gold... Like one BIG stannous chloride test thats done on a very concentrated solution.

But, since you said it turned black after you added SMB, that tells me that its more likely very very finely divided dirty gold that just wont settle.

What is your Ph level currently?


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> ALON 1969 said:
> 
> 
> > dear friends maybe my problem is LOW OR HIGH P.H ?? i hope i did not lost the gold ..i added mor fiols means now thars 12-15 grams...please i need help..thank you dear friends for helping me...im realy afraid the i lot all the gold that wass on this solution
> ...





hello dear friend..i mad A.P process..maybe i diluited to much with disteld water ? maybe the P.H is low? becous when i added the S.M.B thehr wass no any reactoin and the solution have a strang color its browon\gray\black....if i diluited with to much distild water what i have to do now? i adedd like a 12-15 spoons of SMB becous its 3 liter beaker with 1700 ml solution..
. i adedd mor foils to the solutoin to broke the nitric so i have ther lot of gold..any i dea?..thanks dear frind topher


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## nickvc (May 5, 2016)

Have you tested your solution with stannous to see if you have any gold left in solution?
If your test shows negative put your solution on your heater and get it hot that should help the powders to settle, I disliked working with very dilute solutions for this very reason they can take ages to settle.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 5, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> hello dear friend..i mad A.P process..maybe i diluited to much with disteld water ? maybe the P.H is low? becous when i added the S.M.B thehr wass no any reactoin and the solution have a strang color its browon\gray\black....if i diluited with to much distild water what i have to do now? i adedd like a 12-15 spoons of SMB becous its 3 liter beaker with 1700 ml solution..
> . i adedd mor foils to the solutoin to broke the nitric so i have ther lot of gold..any i dea?..thanks dear frind topher



When the solution changed color from yellow to brown/gray/black - that - was/is the reaction. Gold getting reduced to metallic form. I dont think you diluted it too much.

I do think you added too much smb though. But, thats an easy fix, and is future ALON's problem. The first problem in need of attention, is to get the gold to settle.

But, i have another question-
Did you add more nitric to dissolve the extra foils you added?
Did they all dissolve? Or did you leave some undissolved and filter them off?(thereby leaving it known that you had exhausted all of your nitric in solution?)

My only ideas (without being right there to see it, test it, etc...) is/are:

Add a little more water. Take the level right up to 2,000mL
Put the beaker on a hot plate -a coffee warmer is perfect- if you only have a flame, or coiled hot plate, you should definitely find some corningware (arcoflame over across the pond) to use as a catch dish [put between burner and beaker] incase of a break)
Let it warm up, while its warming, give it a few stirs with a glass rod. Repeat that every 15 or 30 minutes...or however often youd like. I wouldnt go crazy with the speed of your stir though, as it will just keep lifting the incredibly small gold particles back up to the top.
After a couple houra of gentle heat. Take it off the hotplate. Let it sit for a day or 7, then siphon off the barren solution to your stock pot and wash the gold precipitate at the bottom of the beaker using Harold_v's methodology.

Or, if you have a centrifuge, just put your solution in it and give it a whirl.

I have had the opposite experience compared to nick- when my dirty solutions stayed hanging, it seemed as if it happened both times on dirty solutions i only diluted with a little bit of ice. And after i added more water, it seemed it could settle up quicker. But, i didnt do it in a very scientific manner- i did all at once- dilute, heat, stir, repeat, then just let it sit for a week, once or twice a day doing a very very slow stir just to get the particulate at the bottom to agglomerate in the center of the bucket. I am in no way saying that nick is wrong, everyone has different experiences, and sometimes hands-on experience is the only way to find a resolution for the problem with your solution.

-topher

-side note-
How's your read of Miss Hoke's book coming along ALON?


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> ALON 1969 said:
> 
> 
> > hello dear friend..i mad A.P process..maybe i diluited to much with disteld water ? maybe the P.H is low? becous when i added the S.M.B thehr wass no any reactoin and the solution have a strang color its browon\gray\black....if i diluited with to much distild water what i have to do now? i adedd like a 12-15 spoons of SMB becous its 3 liter beaker with 1700 ml solution..
> ...



Heloo dear Topher..now after 5 houers i see the gold droped dowon and the up of the solutoin have a littel black gold powoder..now when i added mor water its 2200 ml and the solutoin come to be clear(lol maby i wass littel bit panick its my first time A.R maden)..SO ARE YOU RECOMENDED ME TO DO THIS PROCESS THAT YOU TOLD ME TO DO? TO HEAT IT and stir or just let it sit for a while and wait(i dont have stannous test.im wait for araived)..and what about the to much SMB? i added like a 350 grams becous its to much water..i hope with your help will be happy end to this never ending story (lol)..lot of thanks dear Topher you helping me lot im so thankfull to you you are vrey nice person with good willing..have a nice day dear friend..Alon


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

sorry but i forgot to ask you how to fix the extra SMB you told me "its esy to fixs"..thanks dear friend


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

nickvc said:


> Have you tested your solution with stannous to see if you have any gold left in solution?
> If your test shows negative put your solution on your heater and get it hot that should help the powders to settle, I disliked working with very dilute solutions for this very reason they can take ages to settle.





hello..no i dont have yet the stannous test..but by the way i put the beaker on sun lite i hope its good..ill be glad to know that...have a nice day


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

hello evry one..i put the beaker with the solutoin on sun lite outsid in a safe place..are it is good for the reacthoin or ill have to get it in door?? thanks for responding and how im dealing with extra SMB...Alon


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 5, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> sorry but i forgot to ask you how to fix the extra SMB you told me "its esy to fixs"..thanks dear friend


You *MUST* make some stannous. It is incredibly simple, and you can almost certainly find some tin locally. A store near you surely has lead free solder? (tin and silver or copper or...) a pewter cup or bowl or anything would work too. Lead free fishing weights. Tin anything really.. 

Every refiner needs to be able to test their solutions for values, otherwise you may toss the values right out with the waste.
Stannous Chloride, DMG, schwerters solution, nitric, copperas, a decent spot plate, -all good things to get in your workspace.

Excess SMB can give a false positive on your stannous test, i think I mentioned it earlier. I don't remember if it was this thread though, so here is a good link lazersteve explains it.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=12885&view=next


When theres an excess, you can just wash your gold powder a few times in hot water to get rid of the gas.

If there actually smb powder on the bottom, then add some HCl, not a lot, just enough to get it working. 

-topher


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 5, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> hello evry one..i put the beaker with the solutoin on sun lite outsid in a safe place..are it is good for the reacthoin or ill have to get it in door?? thanks for responding and how im dealing with extra SMB...Alon




I just saw this, but if its outside it will be fine. So long as you have it covered up so nature can't put debris in your solution.

Leaves, bugs, sticks, dust. All can be a pain.


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## g_axelsson (May 5, 2016)

You should study more and experiment less.

- Too much solution
- No stannous tests
- Way too much chemicals used. 350g SMB when 20g would have been enough!

This is the problem with hand feeding advice, no understanding of what to expect or realizing something isn't as it should be.

Göran


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> ALON 1969 said:
> 
> 
> > hello evry one..i put the beaker with the solutoin on sun lite outsid in a safe place..are it is good for the reacthoin or ill have to get it in door?? thanks for responding and how im dealing with extra SMB...Alon
> ...




hi..yep it is coverd and thars a strong sun now in israel(almost 35degrees).ill wait mor 2 days until i get this stannous test..so i will left it on sun all the day and i get it in at evening corect ? after ill siphone it and i will wash it 3x times with disteild boild water and after with HCL x 3times? thanks dear friend Topher..have a nice day...Alon


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

UPDATE: hello dear friends..now the solution(2500ml) is outside on sun lite and its very hot today..after 2.5 ouers i senn small bubels go up from the botom of the beaker(from the "black sand" ) and its like "boild" ..are it is normal? the solutoin be come very clearly like very nice water color..ill be glad for any tips on this time part at my process..lot of thanks dear friends for your best help and good willing..have a nice day...Alon :?:


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> UPDATE: hello dear friends..now the solution(2500ml) is outside on sun lite and its very hot today..after 2.5 ouers i senn small bubels go up from the botom of the beaker(from the "black sand" ) and its like "boild" ..are it is normal? the solutoin be come very clearly like very nice water color..ill be glad for any tips on this time part at my process..lot of thanks dear friends for your best help and good willing..have a nice day...Alon :?:


 i forgot to ask if thers any chans that will be any situatoin of run away or boild solutoin so i could lost the solutoin or part of it? im checking evry 5 minutes the process to look if evry thing is ok... :?:


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## artart47 (May 5, 2016)

Hi Alon.
Gold is probably in the black powder in the bottom. There may still be some gold dissolved in the clear liquid.
very carefully, pour off or syphon off the liquid and put the powder in a small beaker. Do not throw away anything. The clear liquid will be tested with stannous, that will tell you if all the gold dropped or if the solution has more gold. 
Then! put everything away for a while. Look up everything you can find on our forum about washing gold powder. One of our members gave you the post to search for.. how Harold washed his gold.
Art.


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

artart47 said:


> Hi Alon.
> Gold is probably in the black powder in the bottom. There may still be some gold dissolved in the clear liquid.
> very carefully, pour off or syphon off the liquid and put the powder in a small beaker. Do not throw away anything. The clear liquid will be tested with stannous, that will tell you if all the gold dropped or if the solution has more gold.
> Then! put everything away for a while. Look up everything you can find on our forum about washing gold powder. One of our members gave you the post to search for.. how Harold washed his gold.
> Art.




hi Art...thank you..iv seen the solutoin now its very nice browon color (the gold on botom) maybe the color is very nice browon and not black like usely becous i kcooked it 4 days( lol) with break 3 huers at 24 ..i understand that after ill syphon it i need to wash with distield boild water x3 times (how much time need evry one wash?) and after wash with cold (?) HCL x3 times and ill left it dry..am i corect?..lot of thanks to all the friends and members that helped me and helping me and for all thos lernde a very importent lesson from my first post on my first AQUA REGIA process with extra ecess of Nitric Acid and how to deal with this situatoin..i lernd lot and im stil lern and im reading all the time and for sure i did not make it with out you with out all the very nice friends that have a good willing and help one ech other from pure heart and brain...thanks god that he find for me this forum...god bless you Art god bless you all...Alon


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## jason_recliner (May 5, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> hi..yep it is coverd and thars a strong sun now in israel(almost 35degrees).ill wait mor 2 days until i get this stannous test..so i will left it on sun all the day and i get it in at evening corect ?


I would leave it outside. Cover it loosely to protect it from insects, but don't bring it into your house if you would like to keep the other things that are in your house.
35°C is a bit warm, but not too serious. It might even help reduce your acid volume. Have a catch pan or suitable tray underneath so that if it does overflow, you will be prepared.


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 5, 2016)

ALON, you desperately need stannous.

And also read search and read the forum for situations like yours. 

You should let the solution sit for a few days or more (after a few days, shine a light through the solution and check the turpidity of it. -if there are still miniscule particles afloat, give it a VERY gentle stir a few laps around the beaker, then let it sit a day or two more.
-*Hoke suggests leaving solutions sit for days sometimes*-

The amound of smb you used was/is almost enough to drop a troy pound of gold. How much smb you use, should be based upon the amount of gold you expect to reduce out of solution -it is NOT- correlated to the entire volume of solution. If you have 5 grams in 50 ml or 5 grams in 5000, its still 5 grams of smb thats required, that is all, an excess will just give you grief.

I don't mean for this to sound rude -but-
You must do YOUR due diligence, and read.
The forum frowns upon those who don't at least make an effort to try.
I understand the language barrier may make that a bit difficult. Especially when under duress, like when you know there is gold but you just cant get it. But, taking preventative steps (by securing knowledge via reading the forums thousands of threads and Hokes books) will make it so you can observe and react to what your solution is doing, instead of having to wait for a reply, which might not come for awhile, if at all.

The links and book we have adamantly tried to get you to read, would have given you every answer you have posed in this thread -and SOO many more that you haven't even thought of/encountered yet- ..but you will, if you so choose to continue this field of study (that is very much what refining is, studying)

Again, I dont mean to sound discouraging, but, while you are waiting for your solution to complete its next step, research and read up on what should be happening. That way you have a good idea od what to expect, and what you can do. It will save you from stressing out in the end, waiting eagerly for a reply, but yet every thing you need is already in front of you.

I hope you take this reply and use it, learn from it and the other constructive criticisms, for that is how we grow as people -to learn from our mistakes, prevent future problems from happening whenever it is in our power to stop or avoid them.

Hopefully we hear from you soon with all the good things you have learned and want to show off to us.

I eagerly await *that* reply 8) 

-topher, the teacher's aide


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

hello dear friends 
updates with phtos:
HELLO EVRY ONE.ILL UPDATE YOU LIKE I PROMISED.this is photos of the solutoin with the gold i droped to the botom of the beaker..i didnot syphone it yet becous i want to ask something befor...





View attachment 2





i have a crucibal dish and i have this item that i upload on this foto..what you recomended me to melt after ill wash the solution ?


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 5, 2016)

You have a ways to go before you melt, assuming you dont want to lose any gold. Or melt impure gold.

Search "Harold_v's washing technique" and follow.those steps.

Is the.solution *perfectly* crystal clear? Or does it still appear as if there is gold slowly falling?

I would wait.

But after making mistakes the first couple times because of being in a rush... I take it slow and steady.


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> You have a ways to go before you melt, assuming you dont want to lose any gold. Or melt impure gold.
> 
> Search "Harold_v's washing technique" and follow.those steps.
> 
> ...


 Hi dear Topher..the solutoin is very clear but when it wass on sun lite ther wass a kined of reactoin : bobels go up from the botom and the liqwid was warm\hot..ill wait another 2-3 days only after it ill wash it and melt it and maybe thers small gold droped dowon but i did not senn that.. the solutoin is very crystal clear now..ill look for "Harold_v's washing technique" and ill lernd its well only when i will know exectly what to do ill wash it..i hop ill fine it soon or you have the link to the page...thanks a lot dear topher..have a nice weekend....Alon


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

hi..i forgot to ask how ill make stanous test from tin ? :?:


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## ALON 1969 (May 5, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> ALON, you desperately need stannous.
> 
> And also read search and read the forum for situations like yours.
> 
> ...


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## artart47 (May 5, 2016)

Hi Alon!
If you read g Alexsson's post about all the mistakes you have made and all the problems that those mistakes have caused, you will understand why I told you to collect your powder...save your solution...and don't do anything more for a while. He (don't know for sure, you could be a she) said it perfectly! You don't have the understanding of the basics yet. You are going to have problem after problem while trying to wash, further refine and melt your gold.
You can search our verios member's posts and their websites. many of us have videos that you can watch so you can see how they do it. search "Lazer Steve!" click on one of his posts. At the bottom he has a link to his website. His site has many videos you can watch. Some are how to do fingers. On you tube our member "Geo" posted videos on what you are trying to do. We have our "tutorial section" The Information here is endless! You need to take a week or so and dig through our forum and find this material. Study it, actually see the reactions happening, how we calculate how much acid is needed or how much smb is needed to drop a certain amount of gold. how to make stannous chloride and how to use it to test to learn if all the gold dropped before just adding more smb.
My friend, you have a lot to learn before you continue! 
We would really like to see your first gold button posted here. But, you must take the time to educate yourself !
Art.


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## solar_plasma (May 6, 2016)

ALON 1969 said:


> hi..i forgot to ask how ill make stanous test from tin ? :?:



No, you didn't forget it. It is absolutely the correct way not to ask how to make the stannous chloride testing solution, but first to use the search function or to find it in your copy of Hoke. So you were on the right track not to ask.

I can't see any meaning in this spoon feeding, but here you are: stannous video by kadriver


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 6, 2016)

solar_plasma said:


> ALON 1969 said:
> 
> 
> > hi..i forgot to ask how ill make stanous test from tin ? :?:
> ...



I agree..
Its never good to bite the hand that feeds you
-especially when being spoon fed.

I attributed it to language barrier, but, after 3 pages of replies -many giving step by step from the point where stuck to completion, its apparent now to me that this was/is not the case.


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## ALON 1969 (May 6, 2016)

artart47 said:


> Hi Alon!
> If you read g Alexsson's post about all the mistakes you have made and all the problems that those mistakes have caused, you will understand why I told you to collect your powder...save your solution...and don't do anything more for a while. He (don't know for sure, you could be a she) said it perfectly! You don't have the understanding of the basics yet. You are going to have problem after problem while trying to wash, further refine and melt your gold.
> You can search our verios member's posts and their websites. many of us have videos that you can watch so you can see how they do it. search "Lazer Steve!" click on one of his posts. At the bottom he has a link to his website. His site has many videos you can watch. Some are how to do fingers. On you tube our member "Geo" posted videos on what you are trying to do. We have our "tutorial section" The Information here is endless! You need to take a week or so and dig through our forum and find this material. Study it, actually see the reactions happening, how we calculate how much acid is needed or how much smb is needed to drop a certain amount of gold. how to make stannous chloride and how to use it to test to learn if all the gold dropped before just adding more smb.
> My friend, you have a lot to learn before you continue!
> ...



hello..yep ill do that..i must to know how things working and abel the understandig the hwol process..lot of thanks dear friend..have a nice weekend..Alon


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## autumnwillow (May 7, 2016)

Take notes Alon. Try to re digest a small amount of your refined gold in AR again after to practice and further purify your gold.


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## samuel-a (May 8, 2016)

ALON,

Where are you located in Israel? 
If you are near by i might be able to swing by and lend a hand...


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## ALON 1969 (May 8, 2016)

samuel-a said:


> ALON,
> 
> Where are you located in Israel?
> If you are near by i might be able to swing by and lend a hand...


 Hi Samuel how are you..are you from israel..im from Beer-Sheva..ill be happy to know mor and if you will help me it will be graet..if you from israel ill give you my phone num so we can talk hebrew ..have a nice day dear Samuel...Alon


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## ALON 1969 (May 10, 2016)

autumnwillow said:


> Take notes Alon. Try to re digest a small amount of your refined gold in AR again after to practice and further purify your gold.




hello dear friend..thats what i did .i did another A.R to all the gold powder and i got very purety 9999 gold it is realy nice..thanks for your helping me...i have something strange i did A.R to another foils and the color of the solutoin after i filter it is green emerald..are you have any idea why is that color?? i tookd some sampel from the solutoin (50ml) and i added SMB to drop the gold but the solutoin changed the color to durty yelow and ther wass some very littel black things like ants..are is this gold? its not black powder it is so wird..if some one can tell me why it hapend ill be happy..i made reserch on forum but i didnot fine any case like this...Alon :?:


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 10, 2016)

Copper in AR = green
Amount of copper = HOW green

Low gold concentration in solution can make your smb not "flash black"


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## ALON 1969 (May 10, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> Copper in AR = green
> Amount of copper = HOW green
> 
> Low gold concentration in solution can make your smb not "flash black"




hello dear friend Topher how are you..thanks for help me..im thinking how the copper get to the solutoin after it was in A.P batch..any way i added the SMB and i left it to sit over night..buy the way my first A.R that i added to much nitric `end with happy end thanks to you and other very nice persons frome this forum.. im realy thanks full to all of you..now im working by the (hook)book.. i wass try to find what you recomended me to read the "harold wash" i didnot find it..if you can please post the link ill be glad..lot of thanks dear Topher good night..Alon :roll:


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## g_axelsson (May 10, 2016)

I'm glad to see that you are studying, Alon.
Here is a treat for good effort. 8) 
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=325&p=2620#p2620

And the result! :mrgreen: 
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2294&p=19668#p19668

Göran


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## Topher_osAUrus (May 11, 2016)

g_axelsson said:


> I'm glad to see that you are studying, Alon.
> Here is a treat for good effort. 8)
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=325&p=2620#p2620
> 
> ...



Sorry ALON, i didnt see this on the "view new posts" page. But it seems Göran has already given you the right direction to take.

I will NEVER get tired of looking at that picture of Harold's gold...i want to fill a bathtub with it and just lie there in it..

How much gold would that take ya' think? Lol!

-topher, the tantalized


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