# copper ore



## geonorts (Mar 16, 2010)

hi just want to get a bit of a head start on researching of how to recover copper from an ore, i have a few tons of battery sands containg significant amounts of copper and likely some gold and silver. I was hoping someone could help me by suggesting ways to recover the copper and gold at the same time or (recover/remove) the copper to later recover the gold so i can start researching some methods, the copper is malachite, azurite.


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## peter i (Mar 16, 2010)

And before that you were looking into lead ore? http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=6771

If you are going into the mining business, you need to do one heck of a lot more studying than asking in an internet forum!
*
Sorry to be blunt, but what is your background?*
(Basic processing of minerals should not be new to an "honours student of geology"!)

And if the ore really is high grade, where does it come from? Your lead ore had an (incredibly) high silver content, and now another ore, with noble metals in them.


Selling high grade ore to a hopeful fool looking to make a fortune is a very old trick!

You have not given the details, meaning that it is reasonable to expect that you are either the victim of a scam or have been offered ore from a suspicious source.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 16, 2010)

> Sorry to be blunt, but what is your background?
> (Basic processing of minerals should not be new to an "honours student of geology"!)


In defense of geonorts, I can see how a Geology student in the US could end up without much background in ore dressing or metallurgy. I would think the stress in most schools here would be on the scientific aspects and not the practical aspects. Since I really know nothing about how Geology is taught, though, I may be wrong about this.


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Mar 16, 2010)

LOL!!!!!!!...come on,Peter i....Australia is the precious metal´s paradise...gold and silver are everywhere!!..abandoned mines,ores wastes treated with old amalgamation process,huge copper ores....I would be happy to live in Australia.

Look,Peter i,let us make a deal:Let us lend a hand to Geonorts,if the business is good then Geonorts will be a very rich man and he will invite you to travel to
Australia.Sydney,Canberra,Brisbane,Darwin,Bromme,Perth,Melbourne,Adelaide,Hobart,Alice Srpings,Kalgoorlie mine,the Ayres Roock,the Murray river...What do you say?

Geonorts:

Peter i is a nice gentleman who has provided many valuable knowledge in this Forum and I am sure he is going to help us.

Gold,silver and PGM are by products of copper metallurgy.The first thing you have got to do is to find out how many silver,gold and PGM are on your cooper ore.So weight 1 kg of ore and grind it as long as it seems like flour and..enough for today.If you have the willing to do it I am on the willing of help you.May I ask you which part of Australia do you live?

Have a nice day

Manuel


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## geonorts (Mar 16, 2010)

wow that was i mix of responses, yes i did also post a silver topic as well, basically i am studying honours geology at Adeliade University geology in Aus deals very little with metallurgy that being a complety different subject, i however have an interest in the topic and hense i am on this site almost everyday and have refined around an ounce of gold from electronics, scrap gold and native gold, as well as a couple of ounces of silver from electronics. the copper and silver ores that I asked about was because i am currently doing my thesis and time is rather pushed for me so i wanted a bit of spoon fed info for once just to get me started, the ores are from other students i am studying with and when they found out i do a bit of refining asked me if i could process, 1) battery sands from an old gold mining area, the battery sands contain a fair amount of visible copper carbonates and react strongly with H2SO4 as well as my guess a few grams of gold. this is not a mine or business venture simply for a bit of extra cash and knowledge and fun. 2) the galena is for someone else and when they told me 1 kg of silver for every 30 of ore i thought that sounds interesting and offered to see if it could be done even if for just a few ounces to play with, for the galena I was hopeing for a chemical way rather than the cupelling method so thanks goldsilver pro and Juan Manuel Arcos Frank and thankyou for replying to my thread Peter i, as i said not a business venture and while I have some knowledge on metallurgy and ore processing my background is on finding them and on the actual ore. Also i'm quite sceptical on the silver content but it would be nice to process a bit and see.


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## geonorts (Mar 16, 2010)

i am very interested and willing to listen to everyones advice and it will be done probaly not for a few months tho first i wanted to get the info the see if it can be done


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## Palladium (Mar 16, 2010)

Ask Rick http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6212


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Mar 18, 2010)

Geonorts:

Everything can be done,but Economics talks and unless you get for free the silver concentrated ore, then this process can be done,I mean,if you process 30 Ton of ore just to obtain 1 kg of silver the business is in the wrong way.By the other hand,if someone processes the ore (and obtains the copper) and gives you (for free or very cheap)the silver concentrate then the business is in the right way.

A few months ago I posted a book, written by Otokar Hofmann, about silver ores hydrometallurgical process,try to find it using the search tool box.

Have a nice day.

Manuel


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## geonorts (Mar 28, 2010)

guess what i've got another different ore. I've got about a kilo of copper concentrate assay at approx 100 ppm Au, 18% Cu, 3000 ppm molybdenum, 500 ppm bismuth and 300 ppm arsenic, ore minerals from flotation are native gold, chalcopyrite, molybdenite, tellurides, arsenopyrite, pyrite and i believe the bismuth could be within the chalcopyrite as inclusion or a bi au telluride. I'm not interested in costs vs profite i simply want to make a little button of metal from some of this concentrate and wanted to know if anyone can help on the process. would simply melting in a crucible with a furnace set up the same as i do with the gold sponge work under the assumption that the sulphides would convert to oxides then to elemental with a reducing flame or is there a better chemical way. Any help would be great thanks


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## Harold_V (Mar 28, 2010)

I have only a little experience working with ores, primarily extracting gold and silver from exceedingly high grade (in excess of 300 ounces/ton gold). However, I have experimented with concentrates that are from sulfide ores. My target was gold, not copper, so what I can offer is likely of little value. 

Reduction in a crucible is not possible unless you roast the ores to eliminate the sulfur. The crushed ore can be spread on a plate, heated from beneath to redness. I believe (but do not know for certain) that you must achieve a temperature in the vicinity of 900°F, at which point the sulfur will burn off, often with a blue flame. The ore must be rabbled to expose the entire lot to heat and atmosphere until there is no further combustion and/or liberation of SO2. Needless to say, you will produce copious amounts of SO2, so this must be done where you can eliminate the gas. Do remember, it has the potential to kill plant life, and is extremely annoying for those that may be forced to breath the discharge. A few pounds of ore can easily fill an entire neighborhood with a stench that will arouse considerable concern. 

My personal advice is to forget playing with ores unless they are very high grade. The effort that will be expended will generally be far greater than any remuneration you may hope to receive from the results. I do agree, the lessons learned will be far greater in value, and may well be worth the effort for you. 

Ores are not treated easily. If that were not the case, miners would have processed their own. 

I saw arsenic in the equation. Are you sure you wish to mess with this stuff?

Harold


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Mar 28, 2010)

Geonorts:

Do you just want to get a metalic button from your 1 kg ore?... OK...let it be:

Following all the safety instructions about using nitric acid and using gloves,an apron,eye protector glasses,a respirator mask and doing it outside,add slowly 3 lt of nitiric acid to your ore,a vigorous reaction will take place,foam and noxious gases will be formed,the solution will get hot.Stirr well and in one and a half hour the reaction will stop.Filter the liquid and wash the precipitate with tap water for a few times..This solution contains all your copper,add to this solution 300 gr of table salt,stir well and let it settles down for 30 minutes,filter and wash the precipiate a few times.To this solution add 2 litters of tap water then dip some iron(or aluminum) bars,a browm mud will adhere on the bars...this is your copper,shake the bars and conitnue doing it until no more brown mud adheres on the bars,let settle down the browm mud,pour off the liquid,dry the mud and melt it.Now you have a nice 99% copper button.

You have asked,I have answered

Behave yourself.

Manuel


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## geonorts (Mar 29, 2010)

thankyou juan thats exactly what i want to do will this dissolve the all the sulphides and precipitate the other metals along with it (obviously not the gold i know) but the the bismuth etc, or will these form chlorides from the salt


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Mar 29, 2010)

Geonorts:

Let us go back to scholl...all sulphides are insoluble in water,except those that are alkaline(sodium and potassium)...water insoluble sulphides are dissolved with nitric acid forminig nitrates...all nitrates are soluble in water.

When you add nitric acid to your ore you are exchanging all sulphides into nitrates wich are soluble,some kind of separation has been done.(gold,PGM,silica are left in the insoluble mud)

When you add the table salt you are exchanging all nitrates to chlorides,all chlorides are soluble,except those of silver,lead,bismuth and mercury,another kind of separation has been done.

When you dip the iron slab in your solution your are reducing all metals that are below iron in the FEM list,so they will precipitate with your cooper.This copper is called "blister copper" and needs electolytic refining process to acheive market requeriments.

I hope it helps.

Kindest regards to Adelaide

Manuel


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## geonorts (Mar 30, 2010)

yep thats what i was looking for perfectly thanks heaps, now back to hoping someone can help with the other copper ore that i am hoping for profits


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## cpt_squish (May 19, 2010)

About dissolving the ore in Nitric Acid.

We are talking about sulfide ores here.
This is some really dangerous stuff to do
t might seem easy to dissolve your rock but when sulfides hit acids they dissociate into metal salts and hydrogen sulfide. 

And anyone who knows good chemistry will know in even low concentrations hydrogen sulfide is more deadly than cyanide - 800ppm required to kill 50% of exposed humans. With 1000ppm causing instant collapse and death, with only a single breath.
It was also used twice by the British in world war 1 when other gases were in short supply.


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## butcher (May 20, 2010)

here is what Juan say's
Following all the safety instructions about using nitric acid and using gloves,an apron,eye protector glasses,a respirator mask and doing it outside,add slowly 3 lt of nitiric acid to your ore,a vigorous reaction will take place,foam and noxious gases will be formed.


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## geonorts (May 20, 2010)

well cpt squish i'm not dead and the process worked great. ( note; i know this is not a nice method but this was a small amount and was done for sentimental reasons and done outside 800 ppm would never be reached with this amount, the gas produced that is worth worrying about is NOx)

And yes I know who you are, you will need to learn that it pays to be polite on this forum!


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## cpt_squish (May 25, 2010)

It seems that now I've put some thought into it my try at the safety aspect was wrong.
I thought everyone was giving me heaps of safety stuff about smelting I'd do a safety advice. Not much difference between SO2 and H2S.

BUT = It would seem Nitric acid's ability to release NO2 actually creates a scavenger for the H2S unlike the other acids
ie HCl + FeS = FeCl + H2S released poisoness and deadly

so 2HNO3 + FeS (example) = Fe(NO3)2 + H2S
concurrent release of NO2 = HNO3 = NO2 + OH- (Component parts), probably more like 2HNO3 = 2NO2 + H2O + (H+)

I noticed however that H2S and NO2 like each other by = H2S + 2NO2 = H2SO4 + N2(gas)

Probably then re - reacts with original salt by Fe(NO3)2 + H2SO4 = FeSO4 + 2HNO3 regenerating the dissolvent!

So the trick is to have a balanced release of both gases and a reaction of sulfides with nitric acid should be completely safe from poisoness gas aspect, releasing only nitrogen gas (70% of the atmosphere)

Chemistry is great fun!


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## kjavanb123 (Sep 25, 2010)

Juan Manuel Arcos Frank said:


> Geonorts:
> 
> Do you just want to get a metalic button from your 1 kg ore?... OK...let it be:
> 
> ...




I followed this instruction, but since I didn't have enought nitric acid, I divided all the numbers by 100, so instead of 3lt of nitric for 1kg of ore i used 30cc of nitric acid for 10grams of copper ore. here are some problems, please adivse.

1. Right after I added the 20cc tap water and dipped in the iron blade, it's surface was covered by metallic copper that wouldn't let go after shaking the blade, so i waited for mins pulled it out of solution and tried to shave the copper from the surface back into the solution, I guess it wasn't a good idea right? should i have shake them into a clean beaker or something? cuz they disappeared into solution.

2. For large quantities of copper ores, is HCL better than Sulfuric acid? 

Thanks
Kev


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Sep 25, 2010)

Hi Kev.
Look,the problem seems to be a surface phenomenon, hig pH or contamination on iron´s blade surface could affect such phenomenon,I mean,if pH is high,metal cementation reaction(the reaction between copper and iron) does not work properly and it is pretty hard to remove copper,check your pH,it must be 4 or lower.You may low pH adding a little bitte acid.

Scrape that iron blade to remove any contamination or try to use some new iron nails instead the blade you are using,iron niles work lovely in cementation reactions.

The reactive to work with copper ores is sulphuric acid.

Regards.

Manuel


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## kjavanb123 (Oct 14, 2010)

here some update on my copper ore refining project.

My friend and I collected 91kgs of copper ore, then dumped them in a bucket, dropped 30litres of water, then 5litre of 98% sulfuric acid, that pretty much covered everything, immidately the solution turned blue and fizzing started, we let it like that for almost 30 hrs. then filtered the solution, dropped aluminum scrap in the solution which reacts pretty fast and brownish particles gets dumped in the solution as the scrap gets dissolved. Are we using too much acid? i have heard in big heap leach they do 1littre of acid to 100litre of water. Also in smaller scale copper powder we let it dry then using soda ash we heat it, is this how you produce pure copper?

Thanks
Kev


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## butcher (Oct 14, 2010)

copper oxidizes very easily with heat and air, and is very hard to melt into metal, try roasting the powders to drive off sulfides, start at low heat till dry and brown then raise heat to around 900 degrees, using alot of carbon mixed with the powder, this can be in the form of charcoal, flour, wood chips, coal, here the carbon will rob the copper of its oxygen (copper oxide) and make carbon dioxide gas, a good shielding flux and furnace where you can keep atmospheric oxygen may help also, this still will not be easy, why cannot you just sell your copper to a smelter? is this hobby or are you thinking to do this on production basis (which may be a loosing idea).

I find it easier to melt brass than plain copper, can you make brass out of it?


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## kjavanb123 (Oct 15, 2010)

I am gonna try melting it with flour this time. i think the oxygen torch i used last time must have made the copper black. is brass more expensive than copper? I have a small mine, so i do this as a side-money hopefully once i fully get it, i can process 100tons of ores per day.

thanks 
kev


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## kjavanb123 (Oct 24, 2010)

All,

I dissolved copper ore in diluted sulfuric acid, the solution turned blue, I tried to drop the copper using steel scrap, with and without using electricity. In both case, it shows as brownish mud on the scrap, how can i collect them? if using high amps electricity would that attach the copper mud into the cathod while pulling it out of solution?

Also i dropped some of the copper muds into AR, it turned dark green with some gray mud undissolved at the bottom of beaker, what can that gray mud be? Silver compound?

Thanks
Kev


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 24, 2010)

As you can see, I moved this thread to the Mining section.


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