# I messed up again .



## IcyTone6 (Feb 7, 2022)

So I tried to neutralize my Aqua Rega with baking soda and I can't get it to separate from my gold after to cementing it out. Witch I know I shouldn't of done that. now that I read more on cementing. Can anyone please tell me how to separate the baking soda from the gold that has cemented out of my solution or at least point me in the right direction of a thread I can read to separate it. Thank you in advance. I'm still newbie please don't hate on me. Hopefully this clears it up for you. Sorry should of reread it before I posted


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 7, 2022)

Why would you neutralise your arm?
Did you spill acid on it?
If so it might be worth a visit to the doctor.
The rest do not make much sense in this setting, so would you please give us some more information.
We might be able to help with that pert then.


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## orvi (Feb 8, 2022)

IcyTone6 said:


> So I tried to neutralize my Aqua Rega with baking soda and I can't get it to separate from my gold after to cementing it out. Witch I know I shouldn't of done that. now that I read more on cementing. Can anyone please tell me how to separate the baking soda from the gold that has cemented out of my solution or at least point me in the right direction of a thread I can read to separate it. Thank you in advance. I'm still newbie please don't hate on me. Hopefully this clears it up for you. Sorry should of reread it before I posted


I don´t get the whole story, can´t imagine it step by step when I read what you supposedly did. Why baking soda ? What was the purpose ? If you add baking soda to AR, there will be lot of fizzing of CO2 and eventually metal hydroxides will come out. No elemental gold.
Stick to the proven and working procedures, unless you are experienced enough in chemistry. 
And be awarw of aqua regia and related liquids, they produce poisonous gasses and they are seriously hazardous to your health.


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 8, 2022)

IcyTone6 said:


> So I tried to neutralize my Aqua Rega with baking soda and I can't get it to separate from my gold after to cementing it out. Witch I know I shouldn't of done that. now that I read more on cementing. Can anyone please tell me how to separate the baking soda from the gold that has cemented out of my solution or at least point me in the right direction of a thread I can read to separate it. Thank you in advance. I'm still newbie please don't hate on me. Hopefully this clears it up for you. Sorry should of reread it before I posted


Please do not edit your posts like this. Leave your original post as is more or less. Any reply to you will loose its context this way.

Baking soda should dissolve in water.
But I can't understand why you tried to neutralize the AR prior to precipitating your gold.
Too many of these mistakes lately, some youtube thing going on?
The solution needs to be acidic if you are going to precipitate the gold.


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## galenrog (Feb 8, 2022)

Before anyone can do any more than guess, we have to know how you got to where you are. Please detail your process to the point you are now. 

Little of either your original or edited posts make much sense as they stand, 

Time for more coffee.


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## justinhcase (Feb 8, 2022)

IcyTone6 said:


> So I tried to neutralize my Aqua Rega with baking soda and I can't get it to separate from my gold after to cementing it out. Witch I know I shouldn't of done that. now that I read more on cementing. Can anyone please tell me how to separate the baking soda from the gold that has cemented out of my solution or at least point me in the right direction of a thread I can read to separate it. Thank you in advance. I'm still newbie please don't hate on me. Hopefully this clears it up for you. Sorry should of reread it before I posted


_Sodium bicarbonate_ (NaHCO3): Is still used by some assayers as an alkaline _flux_.
So if you have gold just add a bit of borax and melt, it will be quite unkind to your melting dish but should not adversely affect gold if it is there.


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## joekbit (Feb 8, 2022)

IcyTone6 said:


> So I tried to neutralize my Aqua Rega with baking soda and I can't get it to separate from my gold after to cementing it out. Witch I know I shouldn't of done that. now that I read more on cementing. Can anyone please tell me how to separate the baking soda from the gold that has cemented out of my solution or at least point me in the right direction of a thread I can read to separate it. Thank you in advance. I'm still newbie please don't hate on me. Hopefully this clears it up for you. Sorry should of reread it before I posted


First off you don't neutralize your Ar. You may need to de-nox, (remove excess nitric) but never neutralize with NaHCO3 (backing soda). I suggest you boil it down. Then add some Hcl. Then use a proven method to drop the Au, such as SMB. If you see some salts in the Au, that's ok*. *Wash the Au powder with distilled water. Dry it. Then add some Hcl to the powder and slowly add Hno3 (nitric acid) drops at a time until the Au (gold) is gone / in solution. Let it sit for a while. Filter the solution. Then add some SMB*. It's a no fail. 99+*


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## justinhcase (Feb 9, 2022)

joekbit said:


> I suggest you boil it down.


It is best to avoid "Boiling" as this will cause a loss of value and spread it over your work aria.
Ms Hoke advises us to evaporate slowly without allowing your solution to bump or boil.
It is sometimes useful to "Reflux" some quite energetic reactions if you have a reaction vessel with a reflux condenser.


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## IcyTone6 (Feb 10, 2022)

Ok so to some what clarify on the whole situation. I did a thread awhile back about my solution crystallizing. I did everything that I was told from that thread, I didnt dilute the solution enough and it ate my copper up because there was still so much nitric in it so I tried to neutralize it and all I had was baking soda I know stupid stupid mistake and this is where we're at now it's been a while I haven't touched it I just let it be I've done no other steps except for the stupid mistake


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## Abdoulapapatte (Feb 10, 2022)

Hi friend, don't worry and be reassured, everyone makes mistakes (mistakes are human)

if I understand correctly, 



you have a solution of aqua regia in which you attacked an alloy that contained gold 

right ?

2) you dissolved all your alloy in aqua regia and then you introduced copper (metal) so that the gold cements on it exactly?



3) you have solved the problem by adding too much hno3 (nitric acid) and so it attacked the copper and your gold did not precipitate correctly ?



4) between panic, rage and lack of knowledge you wanted to remove the excess of nitric acid a little hastily by adding bicarbonate of soda (because it is alkaline), telling yourself that it would neutralize the correct acidity?



5) You are angry and frustrated not to have the desired result and you are afraid to be badly judged here on the forum ?

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

joekbit gives you the beginning of a possibility 


if I were you this is what I would do:

1) take pictures because it will help us to understand the situation 

2) filter the solution and separate the solid from the liquid 

3) do a test with the stanous chloride to see if you still have gold in solution 

4) rinse the solids with distilled water several times, the sodium bicarbonate should dissolve and you will be able to filter it out, and the gold will remain in your filter 

5) melt your gold, and if you want, you can purify it a second time 

for your remaining solution of departure if you still have gold, you can heat in a beaker 80°c allows to denature the nitric acid and to make him lose of its power, add then some urea which will be able to denox it completely, 

6) add some SMB sodium metabisulfite to recover the gold from your mother solution 

7) melt the rest of your gold 



If I am wrong and all your gold has precipitated (cemented) and is in contact with the sodium bicarbonate, you just have to add water and heat it, so the water will dissolve the bicarbonate

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

see you
​


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## IcyTone6 (Feb 10, 2022)

Abdoulapapatte said:


> Hi friend, don't worry and be reassured, everyone makes mistakes (mistakes are human)
> 
> if I understand correctly,
> 
> ...


Thank you I will try this. You hit it spot on. But everyone on here says not to use urea. That's kinda the start of my bad situation.


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 10, 2022)

Urea will not remove NOx and can create UreaNitrate, we recommend Sulfamic acid which turns Nitric and NOx to Sulfuric acid and such aids in the removal of Lead as well.

Some use the saying that Urea is for your plants. So keep it in your garden.

I asked a question in the beginning and you did not reply, which indicate that you either did not read it or did not want to reply.
If you are to get proper help, you first have to explain what you did in which order and to what material.
I also told you that baking soda dissolves in water.


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## Martijn (Feb 15, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Urea will not remove NOx and can create UreaNitrate, we recommend Sulfamic acid which turns Nitric and NOx to Sulfuric acid and such aids in the removal of Lead as well.


I thought Urea does decompose NOx in exhauast gases and in solutions, but does not eliminate free HNO3 in solution.


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 15, 2022)

Martijn said:


> I thought Urea does decompose NOx in exhauast gases and in solutions, but does not eliminate free HNO3 in solution.


Sorry, I was not quite present during the post, I was on a hurry.
I mixed it up, in the attempt to tell him not to use Urea.
I'll need to concentrate on these topics when posting. Using a phone is also bad for precision.
Thanks for picking it up Martijn.


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## Gold Priisk (Feb 16, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Извините, я не совсем присутствовал во время поста, я торопился.
> Я перепутал, пытаясь убедить его не использовать мочевину.
> Мне нужно будет сосредоточиться на этих темах при публикации. Использование телефона также плохо влияет на точность.
> Спасибо, что взял его, Мартейн.


Мочевина образует нитраты мочевины в любых растворах, где присутствует азотная (азотистая) кислота. В момент восстановления золота гидразином, может частично восстанавливаться и образовываться царская водка со свободной соляной кислотой.
Если это происходит, то золото (восстановиться) растворяется очень бурно с выплескивантем из посуды.
. Обычно это происходит на грани кипения.


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## Martijn (Feb 16, 2022)

Gold Priisk said:


> Мочевина образует нитраты мочевины в любых растворах, где присутствует азотная (азотистая) кислота. В момент восстановления золота гидразином, может частично восстанавливаться и образовываться царская водка со свободной соляной кислотой.
> Если это происходит, то золото (восстановиться) растворяется очень бурно с выплескивантем из посуды.
> . Обычно это происходит на грани кипения.


No me diga 

But seriously, english please..


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## Gold Priisk (Feb 16, 2022)

Martijn said:


> I am Russian, and I don’t know English), although I’ll try through a translator, since the site works wonders.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Junior2021 (Feb 16, 2022)

sempre aprendendo novas técnicas neste fórum com você.


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## justinhcase (Feb 18, 2022)

Junior2021 said:


> sempre aprendendo novas técnicas neste fórum com você.



Não, todos os nossos métodos têm milhares de anos.
Estamos nos ombros de gigantes!


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 18, 2022)

justinhcase said:


> No, all our methods are thousands of years old.
> We're on the shoulders of giants!


I can't agree with that. While using AR is an ancient technique, so many other processes discussed here are newer innovations. The copper chloride leach (AP), sulfuric stripping cell, using a gold button or sulfamic acid to use excess nitric, etc., etc. are not thousands of years old. We do indeed stand on the shoulders of giants, but our members do develop new techniques.

Dave


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## justinhcase (Feb 18, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> I can't agree with that. While using AR is an ancient technique, so many other processes discussed here are newer innovations. The copper chloride leach (AP), sulfuric stripping cell, using a gold button or sulfamic acid to use excess nitric, etc., etc. are not thousands of years old. We do indeed stand on the shoulders of giants, but our members do develop new techniques.
> 
> Dave


I am talking about Aristotle and Mendeleev, who among us could even try to replica their genius.
We stand on the solders of giants!


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## galenrog (Feb 18, 2022)

Don’t quibble. You are both right. Just a matter of perspective. 

Time for more coffee.


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## butcher (Feb 18, 2022)

I wish I knew more of what the Egyptians of old or some of the other ancient cultures knew about the metals or mining working them and working stone, or the artwork how much has been lost or kept secret. 

I agree you are both right, we stand and build on the shoulders of others, as well as on the shoulders of each other by sharing with each other on the forum.


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## justinhcase (Feb 19, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> I can't agree with that. While using AR is an ancient technique, so many other processes discussed here are newer innovations. The copper chloride leach (AP), sulfuric stripping cell, using a gold button or sulfamic acid to use excess nitric, etc., etc. are not thousands of years old. We do indeed stand on the shoulders of giants, but our members do develop new techniques.
> 
> Dave


How do we know?
There is evidence of the "Baghdad Batteries" which indicate our ancestors may well have been plating metals in the Moorish world while we in Europe had barely smelted copper.
Being able to make copper chloride does not seem that advanced a technology.
Of course, they might not have found it quite a useful as people with a convenient copper layer to deal with.
I am quite certain the effect of producing a nice golden snow globe is half the attraction of that process for most people.
The fact that most of what it recovers is gold-plated nickel seems to be secondary importance.
Mostly I see age-old science, sometimes with a slightly original application.


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## Junior2021 (May 15, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Eu não posso conciliar com isso. Embora o uso de RA seja uma técnica antiga, muitos outros processos discutidos aqui são inovações mais recentes. A lixiviação de excesso de cobre (AP), célula de tira de ouro ou ácido sulfúrico para uso excessivo de cobre, etc, etc, etc, tem milhares de anos. Nós realmente nos apoiamos nos ombros de gigantes, mas nossos membros
> 
> 
> FrugalRefiner said:
> ...


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## Junior2021 (May 15, 2022)

Obrigado por compartilhar conhecimentos, tenho aprendido muito no fórum. 

Por isso me sinto no dever de apoiar o fórum.

Sobre o processo de cimentação com (CU) após cimentar sobras de (AR ) que não precipitaram direito no passado,
balde de resíduos, usei barras de cobre puro e um borbulhandor de nebolizador.

Quantas semanas precisa para cimentar precisa? 
OBS: o borbulhando fica ligado direto
OBS: são sobras de água régia que na dúvida resolvi cimentar com (CU)

Preciso purificar o pó preto que desceu? De que maneira.
Obrigado amigos


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