# AgNO3 + NaOH



## Kurr (May 10, 2008)

Recently while at the store to purchase liquid fire to try to set up my first cell I came across a product from Rooto I think that had as its ingredients sodium hydroxode and silver nitrate.

I did some looking and apparently its a well known reaction that causes a tan precipitate to form. Now I have absolutely zero chemistry education (yet!)
but, if the reaction is AgNO3 + NaOH --> NaNO3 + AgOH and if i'm reading it right then could the AgOH be converted to elemental and the by product be sodium nitrate? If so this would give me a "taste" of the silver process from the silver chloride reduction and leave me with sodium nitrate to make nitric with?

I am studying to try to learn to do my own figuring, man I wish I'd have stayed in school way back when. I can understand the whats, I wanna know the why's


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## Harold_V (May 10, 2008)

I'm having more than a small problem with the notion that there's any silver in what you mentioned. Are you sure of your understanding?

Harold


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## Kurr (May 10, 2008)

Not at all. I simply saw the two ingredients as the only ones listed. I thought I was sure till you said that, upon checking on google I didn't see the item and got further doubt, but I'm pretty sure that it was the silver nitrate and sodium hydroxide. 

From what youtube showed me on the reaction it would seem to be to maybe force the clog loose from the volume increase. 

I have no doubt any silver would be minuscule beyond sight. But it might keep me from actually ordering the sodium nitrate from the meat cutter, lol. And curiosity.


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## lazersteve (May 10, 2008)

Drano drain cleaner contains *SODIUM* Nitrate and Sodium Hydroxide as well as Aluminum metal and sodium chloride.

Here's the Data on the product:

http://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=19001029


My advice to you is to hold off preforming *any* reactions, for your own safety, until you have a better understanding of basic Chemistry .

Steve


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## Kurr (May 10, 2008)

I went back to the store and re-read the label. I was correct it says what I remember, however, I looked up the product and the website says something differant. 

The web site lists it as: Drain Out Crystal uses Caustic Soda with Aluminum Chips
Mixing Caustic Soda with Aluminum Chips produces heat and bubbles that act as a scrubbing agent in clogged pipes.

But as I said I went back and it says nothing about aluminum.

Im not doing anything right now, and appreciate your concern for my safety. Collecting scrap, haven't uncapped the first acid yet. I was surprised to see the ingredients listed and was curious even in a hypothetical situation.

I'm just asking questions. When I do get around to starting I'll have an actual understanding, confidence, and run it past here, step by step first. 

Now, back to it. "IF" the product contained what was originally asked, would it do as I inquired? 

And would anyone recommend a good site for online learning for beginners? I haven't been in a classroom for a long time and never took chem, but as I stated before, i don't just wanna "do" this, I wanna understand it.

*edit: I cant believe i read it wrong twice, the msds does say sodium nitrate and hydroxide, im gonna have to get a bottle and scan it.


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## Harold_V (May 11, 2008)

Kurr said:


> And would anyone recommend a good site for online learning for beginners? I haven't been in a classroom for a long time and never took chem, but as I stated before, i don't just wanna "do" this, I wanna understand it.


What I'd recommend is that you NOT look for a good site. This one is amongst the best there is----and may be the only one that will steer you straight. The internet is loaded with moronic concepts that will prevent you from learning good and proper refining techniques. Many will take your money for knowledge that you can acquire free, right here on this forum. 

If you've read many of the posts on this forum, you likely have taken note that I push Hoke's book. It's not because I profit from the sales. I am not connected with the Hoke estate, or the publishers of the book, not in any way. I do not profit from sales. It's because it is the best possible source for you, as a novice, to gain much needed knowledge in the ways of refining. It is handed to you in language that anyone that can read and speak English can understand. I highly recommend you make the book your top priority. 

Harold


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## Kurr (May 11, 2008)

> If you've read many of the posts on this forum, you likely have taken note that I push Hoke's book.



I have read a good number of posts here, and your correct i did kinda notice you and hokes book. I figured anybody pushes something that hard its worth lookin to, so it was the first book i seriously went to lay my hands on. Read it thru twice and am rereading it in sections now. 

I understand why its pushed and for my two cents, it out to be mandatory reading for us newbies. I'll have a copy in my permanent collection from now on. Truly wonderful for the layman.

I looked for info on refing for about 2 years, then found here. Hands down th best, I don't even look for another site on this topic. And maybe I should find another place for my non refining questions or label em Purely Hypothetical, or Mental Lab Challenges or something. 

I said at the start I was looking into my first cell. Found a electroproducts, chicago -48 lab grade filtered dc power supply from when dinosaurs roamed, I think for $10. Soon as i get a fuse and fuse cap I'll see about it running.

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/index-tc.html
Thats the site I found to study on this. I watched Steve's video's but they wont load on my system and I have dial-up so they would take forever to load if they did. 


I could follow the directions and have everything but the anode/cathode
at the moment I have the materials, just haven't made them) but haven't took any from original wrappings because I want to understand better before I setup. 

That is what I thought the scientific method was based on. I was reading ingredients, made an observation, formed a hypothesis, did some research and then consulted here. 

I really see no reason to try this, any product I obtained would be far more economically obtained elsewhere than in my theory. I "might" have attempted it after consulting this forum, just to see it, if I ran across some for free and could preform under the S-SpEaR (Safety, Speed, Efficiancy, and Recovery, I read that here and the S-SpEaR is how I remeber it, lol)

In the reaction I posted I copied and pasted. I still have the same questions as to how you would figure the quantities that would be produce of the substances and in what states and why. I do understand a bit more about the (ionic charges of the electron??) governing how the compounds seperate and reform the way they do, I just cant really predict or define at this point. Maybe I should put a periodic table under my head at night and try osmosis learning till this sinks into the right spot. :shock:

Anyway I hope this gives a bit more understanding of where I'm coming from and why. :mrgreen:


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## Kurr (May 12, 2008)

Went to buy the bottle and it WAS indeed SODIUM nitrate, not sure why I remembered it wrong... wishful thinking? 

MITopencourseware has a introduction to solid state chemistry that seems to have what I was after so far. I just found it last night. All the coursework, video taped streaming lectures recorded from the professor in class, really nicely done.


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## Lino1406 (May 13, 2008)

I don't think that's what you are
looking for. How about inorganic chemistry?


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## Kurr (May 13, 2008)

I'll certanly look, first few lectures were on atomic structure and periodic table and how it cam t be as it is. Cleared up a couple things, I'll watch a few on in-organic as well, thank you.


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## Lou (May 13, 2008)

I would look for principles of general chemistry as that should tell you most of what you need to know. Qualitative and analytical courses are also nice so you know some nice laboratory tricks. Just be aware that the MIT stuff is no better than anything you could get at a university in person (most professors I know would not mind people sitting in on their classes if they're out to learn, students or not!) Undergraduate courses in chemistry are practically identical from university to university. Only when doing your grad and postgraduate does it really change.


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