# About these solid state hard drives PHOTOS!!!! Now With



## silversaddle1 (Dec 10, 2016)

As I am finishing up the tear down of the 8000 pound EMC Mass storage unit I have been taking apart a bunch of these 250 gb solid state drives. They are like a thumb drive on steroids. Have any of you guys scrapped any of them? I'm unsure of what the buyers would grade the boards that come out of these drives. I'm guessing they would go as some type of memory but unsure of that. May be able to post pics but main computer is down and this one I'm using now is a random laptop pulled from the scrap pile. Don't know if my card reader will work on it yet.

Scott

Photos added so all members can see what we are talking about and learn what to look for.


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## patnor1011 (Dec 11, 2016)

From what I have seen they do contain BGA IC and quite a lot of them. That should be classed as higher grade than usual motherboard perhaps close to or on a par with RAM. Picture would be nice and it is a shame you have to tear them down but that is the way customer want to have it so nothing you can do about it I guess.


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## alexxx (Dec 12, 2016)

Why scrapping those ssd. 
They worth a fortune even dead..


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 12, 2016)

I have a destuction order on them. Customer wants them destroyed, that's what we do. I don't like it either, but that's just they way it has to be.


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 12, 2016)

They can't be much more destroyed than reclaimed and refined can they? :lol: 
Do the customer specify which way they are destroyed and the time frame?



> Why scrapping those ssd.
> They worth a fortune even dead..


Anyone know what they can be used for, if dead?
Can they be refurbished?


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## canedane (Dec 12, 2016)

Hi Scoot.
Is the circiut board undamedged? Is the weight about 30 g?
I sell these undamedged boards for 14 euro/kg .
I seperate the box, the cast aluminiun cost 0,97 euro/kg, the electric drive 0,40 euro/kg.
The braclets containt a very high procent nickel and e few procent copper,i dont know the price.
I collect the neodymium, in a few years i ekspect they are doubled in price.
I is a big work, but i do it in my home in the dark hours.
Henrik

ps, i have a lot of trouble to send this, i have to spell "procent" the sign isent possible to send


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## anachronism (Dec 12, 2016)

Good post. However they are worth a lot more. 

Silver you can dismantle the drives so you fulfil your obligations and sell the ram cards to a chip harvester who will reuse the BGA chips in other applications. If the chips are the right ones, they are worth a lot of money. 

Jon


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## g_axelsson (Dec 12, 2016)

Reselling the memory cards with flash memories is potentially a security risk. The chips retain the information that was written on then when in use and is easily recovered. For a spinning disk the platters have to be destroyed to make the information inaccessible, in the same way the memory chips have to be destroyed to destroy the content.
Certified data destruction can be quite lucrative and I wouldn't risk my business model by selling off working chips.

Göran


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 12, 2016)

These drives were over written twice before the unit was shut down. Even so, the customer wants the drives destroyed. So be it.


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## patnor1011 (Dec 13, 2016)

Destroy them IC by incineration followed by water wash, I would drop rest to Nitric just to be sure and then melt remaining shiny metal wires. All info should be safely erased at this stage.


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## anachronism (Dec 13, 2016)

g_axelsson said:


> Reselling the memory cards with flash memories is potentially a security risk. The chips retain the information that was written on then when in use and is easily recovered. For a spinning disk the platters have to be destroyed to make the information inaccessible, in the same way the memory chips have to be destroyed to destroy the content.
> Certified data destruction can be quite lucrative and I wouldn't risk my business model by selling off working chips.
> 
> Göran



Apologies Goran but in this you are incorrect. Once the CESG overwrite patterns have been completed the client data does not remain either on flash or platter media. As an aside there were issues performing data destruction on SSD media when it originally came out however this has been dealt with. Couple this with removing the control circuitry and all you have is a bunch of (wiped) chips on a card. 

Incidentally both Scott and I work in this arena and if Scott prefers to shred them then I fully support his professional judgement.

Jon


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## g_axelsson (Dec 13, 2016)

I don't think I was wrong, we were talking about dead drives among others and reselling them for parts. There is no way to overwrite the data on a dead drive. There is also human error to take into consideration... let's see, did I overwrite this disk or not? If the chips are destroyed there is no question, but you can't look at the outside of a disk to see if it's been overwritten.

I do agree that overwriting the data is enough by all practical means. Just as with spinning disks.

But if the customer wants physical destruction that is what he should get.

I've been working from the other side of the table, both in the military and in private companies involved in computer security, although it's been a couple of years now. But computer security is a field that I'm interested in and casually keeping up at speed with.

Göran


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 13, 2016)

I would say nobody is wrong in the discussion. Yes, the drives are wiped clean. This unit came from a huge bank and trust me, they would not have let 1800+ drives go out the door without some assurance they were clean. But, with that said, they still want everything destroyed as a extra layer of security. I hate doing it. It's hard to destroy 1 terrabite hard drives, 250 gb SSD's as I know they could be resold and re used. But in the end, you keep your customer happy so you get more equipment in the future.

Did I ever post any photos of this beast?


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## g_axelsson (Dec 13, 2016)

Pictures or it never happened! :mrgreen: 

Göran


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## anachronism (Dec 13, 2016)

Of what ya nutter? 

Edit Ahh that unit!! Yes Scott did post pics up. I cried.....


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## anachronism (Dec 13, 2016)

g_axelsson said:


> I don't think I was wrong, we were talking about dead drives among others and reselling them for parts. There is no way to overwrite the data on a dead drive.
> 
> That's what degaussing is for.
> 
> ...


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## alexxx (Dec 14, 2016)

silversaddle1 said:


> I have a destuction order on them. Customer wants them destroyed, that's what we do. I don't like it either, but that's just they way it has to be.



You should try realy hard to convince your client to only destroy the data. Not the physical drive. Finding the right softwares and procedure is a must. Even spending 20 hours to pitch your client in this case is worth it.

Every time you make 1$ out of these drives you are missing between 50$ to 75$ easily...

My2c


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## anachronism (Dec 14, 2016)

alexxx said:


> silversaddle1 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a destuction order on them. Customer wants them destroyed, that's what we do. I don't like it either, but that's just they way it has to be.
> ...



Some clients wont budge Alexxx but you know that already I'm sure  I've got 8,000 2 year old PCs coming in during January worth over $200 each resale and I have to rip them apart and show the client the "waste." Utterly shameful but the client rules.


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## nickvc (Dec 14, 2016)

For some clients the need for full destruction is obvious and I have to say do not get tempted to cheat, I know of one old company, now, who tried and lost everything trying to make a few thousand bucks more, they had some experimental chips and sold them into the market, the client who I won't name bankrupted them with governmental help :shock: 
Some companies need to be sure they have the final word and have the clout to ensure they do frequently with the help of government agencies, for a few thousand dollars or even a few hundred thousand it's not worth it!


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## anachronism (Dec 14, 2016)

You're right Nick. I fully respect Scott's position on this because it's simply not worth it for a few extra bucks.


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 14, 2016)

alexxx said:


> silversaddle1 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a destuction order on them. Customer wants them destroyed, that's what we do. I don't like it either, but that's just they way it has to be.
> ...


 So here's the deal. Yes, the drives are worth more whole than scrap. I know that. But let's just say there were a total of 200 of these SSD's in the unit. So even at the top end, that would only be $15,000.00 total. That's very little considering the fact that this company has locations in 13 states and 1000's of scrap computers and servers a year, not to mention all the other stuff we get from the networking side.


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## artart47 (Dec 14, 2016)

Hi! My Friends.
It's simple! Your character and your word. How much does it cost to repurchase those if you lost them?
i.e. what would Harold do?
Art.


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## goldsilverpro (Dec 14, 2016)

If you've taken this material and have agreed to destroy it, then DESTROY It, all of it. Your reputation is all important in this business. Don't be greedy.


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## jason_recliner (Dec 15, 2016)

silversaddle1 said:


> These drives were over written twice before the unit was shut down. Even so, the customer wants the drives destroyed. So be it.


Despite specifications of 3 (and up to a whopping 35) passes with random data, once is actually enough even for magnetic media. There's a theory that there's a measurable magnetic remnant, but it's only theory. Because Nixon tapes. They were wiped once, and no one has been able to access them. If you disagree, I'll give you a million dollars* if you can recover what I have wiped off a HDD with just zeros, once.

Now the problem with modern magnetic drives is that they contain a chunk of spare blocks, say 2048 spares. In a fairly simplified description, if a sector becomes unwritable (because let's face it, they're built to a price), one of the spares is selected and the original one is dumped from the table. But when you later decide to sequentially wipe the drive, the original sector is untouched.

This is an important point so frequently missed: It doesn't matter how many times you wipe a drive. If the original sectors have been remapped, they are never erased. And that means that some person with no inter-human relationship skills whatsoever will be able to recover a segment of it.

Solid State Drives are a different ballgame, with their 'wear levelling' etc., but they also typically have spare blocks so a similar principle applies as for a magnetic medium. There's no 'remnant' in SSD, so once you block erase them they are erased (all 1's). There are also self-encrypting drives, where you only need to destroy the key and everything is instantly useless. But that's only useless "today". For there's no telling what might be recovered by the fuzzy quantum computing technologies of tomorrow.

I find the theory all very interesting but for business the bottom line is just as you say: The customer wants it destroyed. And the customer gets what he pays for or you have no business. I am sure no-one here doubts Scott's ethics.

I had a bag full of mobiles given to me by a mate on the police force, on trust they be destroyed and I don't look to see what's on them. Some were current models and the environmentalist in me was sad to see them smashed. But smashed they were (he never asked, though I did take a photo) for his trust is worth more than a few bucks.

* Fully redeemable up until yesterday.


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## kurtak (Dec 15, 2016)

jason_recliner said:


> I am sure no-one here doubts Scott's ethics.



Which is why his story (business) is one of success :!: 



> * Fully redeemable up until yesterday.



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Enjoyed the rest of your post to 8) 

Kurt


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 15, 2016)

This is a very good customer of ours. They will allow re-sale of equipment at times, but servers, computers, and storage devices, no way. I have sold pallets of new Cisco phones we have picked up from them, not to mention cabling, racks, etc. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and destroy it and wait for the goodies in the next load.


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## rickbb (Dec 15, 2016)

Not to mention the hassles of resale/retail, returns, complaints, etc. Most day's I'd rather just scrap it that even try to re-sell stuff.

Path of least resistance. Since I get all my e-scrap for free, it's all profit to me.


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 15, 2016)

rickbb said:


> Not to mention the hassles of resale/retail, returns, complaints, etc. Most day's I'd rather just scrap it that even try to re-sell stuff.
> 
> Path of least resistance. Since I get all my e-scrap for free, it's all profit to me.





There ya go!


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## anachronism (Dec 15, 2016)

silversaddle1 said:


> rickbb said:
> 
> 
> > Not to mention the hassles of resale/retail, returns, complaints, etc. Most day's I'd rather just scrap it that even try to re-sell stuff.
> ...



Haha and people say I'm dry.


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## kurtak (Dec 16, 2016)

anachronism said:


> silversaddle1 said:
> 
> 
> > rickbb said:
> ...



Per what I highlighted in red - then ether you are not handling enough material to make it worth while - or - you are not maximizing your profits

If you are handling larger amounts of material & not taking advantage of resale you are loosing out big time

Example - about a year ago I bought 218 pounds of gold RAM from a guy as scrap RAM - at the time scrap (gold) RAM was going for $14.50/lb - I paid $12.50/lb - so was looking at a profit of only $436 if I simply turned around & resold it as "scrap" RAM

Instead - when I got it home I went through it & picked out all the RAM that qualified for resale - don't remember exactly but think it was like 6 - 8 pounds - that 6 or 8 pounds of resale RAM paid me right at what I would have got (actually about $100 "over") if I had just turned around & sold it all as scrap RAM - so I actually made a (small) profit on selling 6 - 8 pounds - out of the 218 pound - by sorting out & selling the resalable RAM

That means the remaining 210 pounds of "scrap" RAM was ALL profit --- 210/lb X $14.50 = $3,045 + $100 (profit from resale RAM) = $3,145 profit 

So - by sorting out the resale RAM it more or less comes down I got the 218 pounds of RAM for free - even though I actually paid for it --- my profit changed from only $436 if I had just turned around resold it as scrap RAM - to a profit over $3,000 for sorting out the resale RAM

Now - lets say - as you say - you get it all for free to start with - on that 218 pounds the profit would have doubled to "over" $6,000 

But that's not the end of the story - because I did not just sell the 210 pounds of scrap RAM as scrap RAM --- instead - I sent it in along with some other "high grade" boards to a smelter for processing which I also made a profit on "over" what I would have made if I sold that load of boards out right as scrap - I just can't tell you how much of "that" profit was due to the RAM because it was mixed with other high grade boards - BUT - the RAM certainly contributed to that profit - meaning my profit on the above Ram was something greater then the above

And I didn't have to deal with any of the problems you talk about (in red) because I didn't do the "actual" reselling - instead I sold it to a company that pays a premium for it as "resalable" RAM & "they" do the reselling

Kurt


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 16, 2016)

kurtak said:


> anachronism said:
> 
> 
> > silversaddle1 said:
> ...



So what is your time worth? 210 pounds of memory will take some time to sort. Now once you sort it, you have to market it, pack it, ship it, all takes time to do. Now I understand how you came up with your profit margin, and it's a respectable number, but when you have truckloads of this stuff to do all the time, where do you find the time? Ya see what I'm saying? I do resale memory on Ebay, quite often in fact. But it's only stuff 4gb and above. Anything under I don't mess with. I do have a buyer that will work on a sort and settle method on memory, but have never done it.


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## anachronism (Dec 16, 2016)

Kurt, Scott you've pretty much nailed it guys.

Kurt you're prepared to buy a batch and front up the money based upon a minimum guaranteed return and then you enhanced that massively using the means available. Scott has to take a commercial decision based upon how best his time is spent in relation to the equipment coming in. It costs money to make proper money, there's no way around it.


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## rickbb (Dec 16, 2016)

I don't do large volumes, certainly not 100's of pounds of ram. And I never buy it, at most I will drive a couple of hours to get a pickup truck load of complete PC's. Most of what I get is more than a few years old. Old enough to have a low resale value and have tons of other people selling something similar, if not exactly the same.

Dealing with sorting, cleaning, answering questions like "will it fit in xyz, has it been tested, do you offer a money back warranty" and so on. It's 5 to 8 years old, (or more), when I get it, almost obsolete, why would I test it and offer a warranty when it's barely still viable. 

I have sold to a guy that does the reselling, sold him 20 hard drives at $5 each. They all came from working systems, (I know they were because they were my systems for my day job), he claimed 3 of them didn't when he got them and wanted a refund on them even though the terms of sale were very clear to be as is, no claim of warranty at all. I gave him the $15 and never did business with him again even though he has contacted me wanting more.

Just not worth the trouble to me, I hate dealing with that kind of thing. I sell all my hard drives to a e-scrap buyer by weight and am more than happy with the return I get. Could I get more if I really wanted to, sure. Do I want to, oh heck no.


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## kurtak (Dec 16, 2016)

silversaddle1 said:


> So what is your time worth? 210 pounds of memory will take some time to sort. Now once you sort it, you have to market it, pack it, ship it, all takes time to do. Now I understand how you came up with your profit margin, and it's a respectable number, but when you have truckloads of this stuff to do all the time, where do you find the time? Ya see what I'm saying? I do resale memory on Ebay, quite often in fact. But it's only stuff 4gb and above. Anything under I don't mess with. I do have a buyer that will work on a sort and settle method on memory, but have never done it.



About 12 - 14 hour to sort that much RAM - trust me - when you do that much RAM you get REAL good at it - for one thing you get to where "a lot" you can recognize just at a glance (don't even need to look at the labels to read the numbers) & just throw it in the scrap bin - those that you need to look at the label for the numbers because it may or may not qualify you figure out real quick where the numbers are so it only takes a couple seconds to see if its good or not - of course there is always "some" (the odd balls) that takes "a bit" more time to look at - but most of it falls in the "once you are familiar with what to look for" it really only takes seconds to determine good or bad

Once its sorted - put it in a flat rate box - send it to Dynamic - wait for the return check - no "marketing" involved & don't need to test it ether

$3,000 for 16 hours work (including the time to box it & take it to the post office) makes my time worth about $180 an hour on that job

But I also see your point when dealing with "truck loads" of material "all the time" - it comes down to where & how to use your time - based on how much you get in - what you get in & how often it comes in

For me - that "sometimes" come down to a question of whether it is worth while (or not) to hire a guy for a day &/or a few days - which I do from time to time (when I am swamped) he is a good friend & is retired & he is GOOD at what I need him to do when I need him to do it 

Kurt


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## snoman701 (Dec 16, 2016)

Kurt....

I assume you speak of this mysterious EDO ram that I'm yet to find a piece of. 

What are the visual differences that key you in quickly?


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## jason_recliner (Dec 17, 2016)

Snoman, one big clue is that DDR and DDR2 (even the newest are more 5 years old now) look almost the same, but DDR3 has its slot quite offset making them identifiable in a split second.

I'm sure Kurt has plenty more tricks. And Kurt, I really enjoyed reading your tale too.


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## snoman701 (Dec 17, 2016)

So is it all the DDR3, or once you identify as DDR3, then you look for the letters EDO?


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## anachronism (Dec 17, 2016)

No there's a range of types of RAM dependant upon when and what it was made for. EDO is old stuff used for 486 and below machines. DDR came later.


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## snoman701 (Dec 17, 2016)

So how does one learn to sort RAM for resale vs RAM for refining?


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## g_axelsson (Dec 17, 2016)

snoman701 said:


> So how does one learn to sort RAM for resale vs RAM for refining?


You study!

Read and do research on the web to find out which types of ram there is and what you have, do searches on ebay to see what sells and for what money, check with bulk buyers what they are buying.

There is no definite guide to how to sort and sell as the market always is changing as new types appears and the types and sizes people buys are changing.

Göran


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 17, 2016)

What Göran said. And much like the rest of the discussion on this thread, it depends on _your_ circumstances. 

Silversaddle can't sort any of it because of the huge volume he handles. 

Kurt finds it profitable to sort out that which is easily identifiable. 

Other members, with lower volumes, might find it worthwhile to identify types that Kurt passes over because they are harder to identify, don't provide as high a profit margin, or might not bring a premium from _his_ buyer. 

Just because something is old doesn't mean it doesn't have value if you're willing to seek out the right buyer who needs it to keep an old, legacy system going, and deal with the potential problems that have already been mentioned. I sold a couple of EISA SCSI controller cards just a couple of years ago, and they went out of fashion a long time ago. The buyer still had some old servers that still worked for his company's needs, and it was a lot cheaper to buy a couple of controllers than to upgrade the whole system.

Dave


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 17, 2016)

Wait a minute, I didn't say we never sort any ram out. I do, but not all of it. When I open a server and see 8 sticks of 8gb ram, I will on occasion, look it up on Ebay and if I like what I see I will list it in my spare time. But then again, like today, we scrapped 50 towers and I never looked at any of that ram. I know that when I do unload this lot of ram, it's going to be on a sort and settle type agreement. In all fairness I should make the time to sort it all out and max out the profits on it, but I have so little free time anymore.


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 17, 2016)

Sorry Silversaddle. I didn't mean to mischaracterize what you do. I was just trying to use your high volume operation in comparison to a mid volume and low volume operation. So, much like Kurt, you do cherry pick that which is obviously worth the effort. Kurt may devote more time to sorting. Someone else may devote even more. The point is, there is no single right answer. It all depends on your circumstances.

Dave


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 17, 2016)

I only pick it when I'm pulling it. If my wife is doing take-downs, none of it gets picked.


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 17, 2016)

She sounds like my wife. She looks at all my stuff and says "junk!". :lol: 

Dave


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## patnor1011 (Dec 18, 2016)

First and probably quickest sorting is if you look at IC on a RAM. When I sort RAM I do toss all RAM with IC with legs on two sides in a bucket for refining and set aside all sticks with BGA IC. Then when I have time I do go through BGA IC RAM and again all which is less than 1GB go to a bucket and I keep only 1GB and more. I do sell anything over 2GB fairly quick and if you want to see what price they go for just type and search what you see on label on ebay and you will get an idea. I do not bother too much with ebay prices as I want to sell them quick so I usually sell 2GB sticks for 5 euro and they sell fast. Sometimes I do find a person who want to buy all I got then I sell it for 4euro a piece. I talk about laptop RAM as I deal with laptops only. 1GB I do sell for 2euro/piece in bulk like 20-30 pieces.

There may be a market for older smaller RAM like 256MB but I got such inquiry like 2-3 times a year so I do not bother and keep just a few to help out somebody who need them.


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## snoman701 (Dec 18, 2016)

g_axelsson said:


> There is no definite guide to how to sort and sell as the market always is changing as new types appears and the types and sizes people buys are changing.



That's what I wasn't sure...if it was one specific type of old RAM that sold because it's chips were superior, or if it was just "modern ram", ever evolving, that is resold to be reused.


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