# NOx supression and nitric recycling confirmed!



## goldenchild (Feb 15, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PhE7GIUrxA&layer_token=dac319007c9b3a61

Right click the link and click "Open in New Window" to remain on forum.

To study the math used in this experiment go to Noxx's topic in the Learning>patents section named "Get rid of NOx fumes and get stronger nitric acid". The equations are posted by goldsilverpro.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Feb 15, 2010)

Could it be that your water vaporized to quick slowing the reaction? Maybe an ice bath would help as well to slow things down?


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## goldenchild (Feb 16, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Maybe an ice bath would help as well to slow things down?



I didnt even think of that! Although its very cold where I am, it may not be cold enough to maintain a stable reaction. I willl try an ice bath next. This is a very good idea. Thanks.


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 16, 2010)

goldenchild,

That was a very well done video.


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## goldenchild (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks goldsilverpro and another thanks for coming up with the numbers for this experiment. I am going to do some further tests with this. I want to put the ice bath into play as suggested by Barren Realms. I also want to try adding a bit more ethylene glycol into the mix to further preserve the h2o2. Another thought is to add the nitric to the solution in small increments instead of making the entire solution up front. The answer may be a combination of all of these. 

On a side note... does anyone know where one could get 35% h2o2 at a reasonable price? The 250ml bottle seen in the vid was off of ebay from a guy in the uk. It was sent out Dec 12 2009 and I didnt get it till Feb 13. It was also pricey at $18. I wouldnt of gotten it if it wasnt for the sake of the experiment. All for you guys.


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## leavemealone (Feb 17, 2010)

I purchased mine from a pool supply store in the next town,if I remember correctly it was $20 for a gallon.


> Thanks goldsilverpro and another thanks for coming up with the numbers for this experiment.


Can you provide me with a link to this?I have tried h2o2 in AR a few years ago with no success but wanted badly to make it work.
Johnny


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## Irons (Feb 17, 2010)

Check for sales in early spring. I was able to pick up H2O2 27% for $11. per gallon (app. 4 liters). I bought some a few weeks later and it was $22.

It will keep for a Year or more if kept in a cool, dark place.


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## aflacglobal (Feb 17, 2010)

I found the 3% stuff on closeout sale at Big Lots here for 25 cents for a quart bottle. I bought 112 bottles (all they had ). I thought i was going to get the law called on me when i wheeled up to the cash register with a buggy full.

After the cashier started ringing it up i said, " don't you want to know ? " She said i was going to ask, but you never know. I laughed and told here i get a lot of cuts. Then i told her it was used for cleaning copper. Next thing i know I’ve got people in line asking questions about how to clean copper gutter and flashing. Yep, time for me to get out of this store. Around here it's meth city the stuff is everywhere and the government publicizes the ingredients for making it. 

On that list is h2o2.


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## aflacglobal (Feb 17, 2010)

Great video also. ( sorry )
Also around here i can get fertilizer cheap by the ton, farm country you know.

No sir i didn't think anything was wrong with me buying a ton of sodium nitrate and all the peroxide that store had. Can i go now ? :shock: :shock: :shock: 

Cats climbing on the thermal nuclear weapon.


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## goldenchild (Feb 17, 2010)

aflacglobal said:


> I found the 3% stuff on closeout sale at Big Lots here for 25 cents for a quart bottle. I bought 112 bottles (all they had )...


^
|
|
Thats great. 

I will try the pool supply stores. Since its winter here most stores will be opening around April. Looks like I will be waiting 3 months to get h202 any way I slice it lol.

Check this out guys. Its been done over and over again with many topics but this one we should all appreciate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIL24rt4Lck


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## Barren Realms 007 (Feb 17, 2010)

That was great. I liked the natural gas. 8)


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## aflacglobal (Feb 17, 2010)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26919014/Metal-Dissolution-Process-Stopping-Nitric-acid-fumes-with-hydrogen-peroxide


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## Irons (Feb 17, 2010)

aflacglobal said:


> I found the 3% stuff on closeout sale at Big Lots here for 25 cents for a quart bottle. I bought 112 bottles (all they had ). I thought i was going to get the law called on me when i wheeled up to the cash register with a buggy full.
> 
> After the cashier started ringing it up i said, " don't you want to know ? " She said i was going to ask, but you never know. I laughed and told here i get a lot of cuts. Then i told her it was used for cleaning copper. Next thing i know I’ve got people in line asking questions about how to clean copper gutter and flashing. Yep, time for me to get out of this store. Around here it's meth city the stuff is everywhere and the government publicizes the ingredients for making it.
> 
> On that list is h2o2.



The only problem it 3% H2O2 is that it adds a lot of water to the reaction. After a while, it gets so diluted that the reaction slows to a crawl.


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## Noxx (Feb 17, 2010)

I knew it would work !

Thanks for the vid. 

Don't forget to add the forum URL in the video's description.


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## lazersteve (Feb 18, 2010)

Great video!

You're on a roll with your videos, keep up the good work!

Steve


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## mlgdave (Feb 14, 2011)

Ok, im a newbie and im impressed and I happen to have 4 gallons of 35% h202 so i will definitely use this method. The question I have is how big of a batch have you done dissolving silver inquarted au? and how big a container would you use, the reaction seemingly got a lot more aggressive after you turned the camera back on. 

Im wondering if I measured out the soultion and then just kept adding the inquarted shot little by little through out the day as it got digested? or other way around? add the solution little by little and as it got exhausted add more? or Just do multiple batches?

Thanks a ton for the vid! 

mlgdave
ps...how do you get your gloves over the very impressive rings?


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## Barren Realms 007 (Feb 14, 2011)

mlgdave said:


> Ok, im a newbie and im impressed and I happen to have 4 gallons of 35% h202 so i will definitely use this method. The question I have is how big of a batch have you done dissolving silver inquarted au? and how big a container would you use, the reaction seemingly got a lot more aggressive after you turned the camera back on.
> 
> Im wondering if I measured out the soultion and then just kept adding the inquarted shot little by little through out the day as it got digested? or other way around? add the solution little by little and as it got exhausted add more? or Just do multiple batches?
> 
> ...



Until you get use to the reactions start with small lot's and work your way up. Don't add all of your solution at once. Find what suits you best.


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## mlgdave (Feb 14, 2011)

thanks Barren, appreciate the advice. I liked finding this thread, I had the 4 gallons of h202 left over from some etching of mineral specimens and was wondering what the heck to do with it, now I know!

mlgdave


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## Drewbie (Feb 14, 2011)

Another source for strong H2O2 could be farmers supplies.

Dairy farmers use it (I think) to clean out their stainless steel vats between milk runs.


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## goldenchild (Feb 15, 2011)

mlgdave,

Check out my last post on this thread.

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8021


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## mlgdave (Feb 15, 2011)

Ok goldenchild, thanks, I see from that last post then that you never could get it to work and be stable. I did see in your video it went violent and aggresive after the flattened copper coil. 

What I have to contend with then is I have 18 ounces now of karat scrap to inquart, digest and when i did the 3 ounces it produced a crapload of NOx. So answer this if you can, I cant wrap my peabrain around it, if my next batch requires 1 liter distilled and 1 liter nitric to produce the 35%, how much minimum acid could I add to start the reaction slowly? I need to get it to at least 25% right? And then can I keep adding the acid slowly to keep the reaction and fumes slower and lower??

thanks again all you fab refiners!

mlgdave
ps............YES, as soon as I drop my gold, and melt my button I will in fact setup a lab so I dont have to contend with these issues, scrubber, hood, enclosed room etc etc etc


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## Barren Realms 007 (Feb 15, 2011)

mlgdave said:


> Ok goldenchild, thanks, I see from that last post then that you never could get it to work and be stable. I did see in your video it went violent and aggresive after the flattened copper coil.
> 
> What I have to contend with then is I have 18 ounces now of karat scrap to inquart, digest and when i did the 3 ounces it produced a crapload of NOx. So answer this if you can, I cant wrap my peabrain around it, if my next batch requires 1 liter distilled and 1 liter nitric to produce the 35%, how much minimum acid could I add to start the reaction slowly? I need to get it to at least 25% right? And then can I keep adding the acid slowly to keep the reaction and fumes slower and lower??
> 
> ...



In your 1st addition add about 25% of your nitric and after that is complate add another 25% and so on. Some where down the line you might run into contaminats that need to be delt with so you don't have future problems.


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## goldenchild (Feb 16, 2011)

mlgdave,

You will get all the NOx fumes you got with the 3 ounces no matter what. What you have to try to control is how much of it is realeased at one time. You can do this a few ways. 

Like Barren suggested(and the most common), you can add small increments of nitric waiting for each addition to be spent before adding more. This will also help with not using excess nitric making the denox stage a breeze.

You can simply process smaller batchs at one time. 

Wet coffee filters are nice 8) Place a few over your reaction vessel and keep them wet by spraying them down. Since you already have beakers buy some watchglasses. They are even better than filters.

Remember you can still use 3% H202.

And of course you can use a combination of all these in addition to whatever else you can come up with. I think an ideal set up would be a 1-2 liter beaker with a watchglass, using 3% H202 adding small increments of nitric to a 1 - 2 ounce batch of scrap.


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## mlgdave (Feb 19, 2011)

Hey Goldenchild, thanks, I just dont quite understand the comment about using the 3% h2o2. I am about to digest 400 grams of inquarted karat scrap and would like clarification on what you mean by that comment? I have searched the forum and not finding anything specific to that. I am not using the Ethylene glycol/35% h2o2 but am interested in the 3%.

I have NOT yet finished reading HOKE, but I am reading it

mlgdave


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## mlgdave (Feb 19, 2011)

figured it out, i used 3% (actually 4%) h2o2 as my dilute. I found the reaction started with the addition of about 1/2 of the calculated nitric needed, i slowly added more nitric and if brown NOX came up i added a few ml of 35% h2o2 and it knocks the fumes right out. I have not yet added heat as the reaction is going nicely and the solutions are quite warm on their own (im running 2 batches simultaneuolsy)

mlgdave


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## Barren Realms 007 (Feb 19, 2011)

mlgdave said:


> figured it out, i used 3% (actually 4%) h2o2 as my dilute. I found the reaction started with the addition of about 1/2 of the calculated nitric needed, i slowly added more nitric and if brown NOX came up i added a few ml of 35% h2o2 and it knocks the fumes right out. I have not yet added heat as the reaction is going nicely and the solutions are quite warm on their own (im running 2 batches simultaneuolsy)
> 
> mlgdave



When it goes hay wire let us know. :twisted:


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## mlgdave (Feb 19, 2011)

1 hour into reaction, no problems so far, now im slowly adding heat to get it to boiling as the reaction has slowed to almost nothing. I think 1 thing in my favor is the fact that its 21 deg

mlgdave


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## mlgdave (Feb 19, 2011)

all is well, very little NOX, and this batch was 4 times bigger than the last batch, im gonna run 1 more small clean dilute nitric on it to make sure but it looks good.

mlgdave


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## goldenchild (Feb 20, 2011)

mlgdave said:


> all is well, very little NOX, and this batch was 4 times bigger than the last batch, im gonna run 1 more small clean dilute nitric on it to make sure but it looks good.
> 
> mlgdave



Sounds like your combination approach is working well to keep the NOX fumes down. You will get use of your concentrated H2O2 still. Remember, once you get all your gold down to powder form you can also use the 35% H2O2 with HCL to refine it a second time. Using H2O2 in place of nitric with HCL makes denoxing unneccessary. It's much easier to spend the H2O2 than get nitric out of solution. Add the 35% in very little increments!


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