# Silver Solder



## jmdlcar (May 29, 2012)

Is Silver solder worth processing?


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## etack (May 29, 2012)

No to might be, but the search box is worth using. It has been on the forum a lot in in varying percentages.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=Silver+Solder&terms=all&author=&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

Eric


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## jmdlcar (May 29, 2012)

I did a search on Silver solder. That why I ask that dumb question.


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## Harold_V (May 31, 2012)

jmdlcar said:


> I did a search on Silver solder. That why I ask that dumb question.


Silver solders are not all the same. Those that are considered silver brazing material are damned well worth processing, and can be used to inquart, killing two cats with one stone. 

By sharp contrast, silver bearing solders (under 10%) may not be unless you have a huge volume of material and the ability to separate the silver. 

I'm sure you'd understand that your question, as it was posed, would be akin to asking how big is a rock?

Harold


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## jmdlcar (May 31, 2012)

The person that has it said it is 95/5 and 60/40 I think what he said.


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## nickvc (May 31, 2012)

I'd say it was 95% base metals and 5% silver and 60% base and 40% silver but a test of a known small quantity would give you the answer you need, just dissolve it in nitric and cement the silver out on copper sheet. The first solder sounds a waste of time chasing after and spending time and money to refine it, the other may be worth it if on a toll basis or if it's really cheap but the tests will tell you.


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## etack (May 31, 2012)

if you are buying it on spools or as brazing rods it will have a resale value that is greater than the silver content. most times.


Eric


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## tek4g63 (May 31, 2012)

Nickv wrote, I'd say it was 95% base metals and 5% silver and 60% base and 40% silver but a test of a known small quantity would give you the answer you need, just dissolve it in nitric and cement the silver out on copper sheet."

I agree on the percentages but disagree on the method to test. The area of silver solder, well solder in general, is something I know allot about. I worked in an elections manufacturing factory for 13 years. There is no need to use nitric acid to dissolve it and then take the time to cement the silver out. Just take a piece, one ounce in weight for example and put it in 3 cups of hydrochloric acid. The alloying metal is tin and will be consumed fairly quickly. What you will be left with is silver chloride powder in the bottom because HCL can't retain it in solution. Decant the solution that is now a week stannous chloride (bonus) wash the powder with fresh HCL then water and weigh it. Then with a little simple math you can calculate the percentage of silver that was in your sample.

Remember this method will work if it is silver solder, not sure if it will work with braze.

This part is important.I do not want to see you get ripped of. The 60% 40% sound like typical lead solder to me, I'm almost 100% sure of that. If I'm correct it will not contain any silver.

Good luck! If anyone sees that I have any miss information here please correct me. I do not want to lead any one down the wrong path.


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## eeTHr (May 31, 2012)

Silver solder is used to attach pieces of sterling silver together when making jewelry. It comes in different alloys, referred to as hard, medium and soft. The softer contains more non-silver, so it will melt at a lower temperature, but the silver content is still high.

This silver solder comes in either wire form, or small thin sheets which the jewelry maker cuts with small shears into tiny squares or other shapes for use.

Fine silver can be used as hard solder, because it melts at a lower temperature than sterling. Some bezel strips are fine silver, because it is softer than sterling, and can be rolled over the stone easier. But a medium silver solder needs to be used or the bezel will melt when soldering it to the back plate.

Medium silver solder will present a slightly darker color than the sterling. The soft will be noticably darker, and is only used if it can be hidden. Soft is necessary only if soldering near another solder connection of medium hardness, so as not to remelt that connection.

But all of the silver solder grades have a high silver content, so it won't degrade the overall silver content of the jewelry piece too much.

The 60/40 ratio is the old common electronics solder ratio of tin/lead, before everyone realized how dangerous the fumes were, and that it shouldn't get into land fills. Silver electronics solder has the much smaller amounts of silver, and a much lower melting point.

I don't know what the brazing silver alloy is.


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## jmdlcar (May 31, 2012)

The person that has it use it on the job back in 70 and 80 as a plumber.


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## eeTHr (May 31, 2012)

Like tek said, I think the 60/40 has lead, and the other is 5% silver.


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## etack (May 31, 2012)

wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder

Has a great chart for solder.

Eric


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## jmdlcar (May 31, 2012)

I'm going to tell him it not worth it and find someone else to do it.


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## tek4g63 (May 31, 2012)

Sorry I didn't get to quite finish my last post, I was still at work.

Jack, just for future refrence, if someone has solder used for plumbing or electronics and not for jewelry making and they know the precentages ask them what other letters on on the label. What I mean is typically solder sold for these aplications will be labeled something like, 60 SN 40 PB or 60/40 SN/PB that is tin (Sn) and lead (Pb). If it is silver solder, typically it will say something like "lead free 95/5, or Pb free. Something to that effect. I have noticed that many manufactures don't list silver content because they are not required to by law. All lead solder will have the alloy precentages clearly marked, it is something they have to do.


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## Harold_V (Jun 1, 2012)

There are industrial grades of silver solder that contain silver in the 50% range. They are available in wire and sheet form, and typically found at welding supply stores. I can't be specific, but they are common to the machine tool industry. You can see an example of their use in brazed carbide cutting tools of all kinds, including circular saw blades, carbide tipped. 

They're the ones I made mention of in my first post in this thread. Because they are high in copper, they are generally colored a rather light yellow color. Some contain cadmium, so handle with care.

Harold


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## dcorley001 (Jun 4, 2012)

I don't have any shots of them but recently obtained some small boxes somehow used in rf or microwave application. Once opened there are three ceramic boards with gold traces on one side. There is a larger one on top and two on the bottom. On the side of the ceramic boards with no traces they are mounted to a piece of copper that is completely coated with solder of some type. There is no copper visible without first removing the solder.. An application of Schwerters test solution to the solder goes dark brown to dark red. It's hard to tell the color. Would you call this silver solder orsomething else for the specific application. Would you be better served to removed the silver electrolytically or by chemical reduction. I only have a few ounces of these but am trying to obtain more.


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## Geo (Jun 4, 2012)

red color is a good indicator of silver. i know silver is used on ceramics because of its high tolerance of heat. do not overlook or discard the ceramic boards or chips with grey traces as it could be Pd at the least and Pt at the best.


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## dcorley001 (Jun 4, 2012)

So chemical reduction, filter the precipitate. Digest in ACl and test with DMG?


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## Marcel (Jun 4, 2012)

There was a shift in the electronic industry with the introdcution of RoHS ( Reduction of hazerous substances - there is also a german meaning of it). It started around the year 2000 and since that time lead has been banned from electronic solder (industrial scale, not for small business/private use).
To replace lead, a higher silver content was introduced. That lead to higher melting points of the solder and new technologies.
So lead is a sign of poor quality from countries that dont have this regulation. Silver content is rising and rising in solder. Wismut is common as well for lower solder temperatures.
Silver content more than 5% is almost impossible to solder. So expect 2-4% from electronics that were made in teh last 10 years.
They also may be Pd in there as mentioned. PT, I dont know why someone would use it. It has a very high melting point and is very little reacticve.


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## Geo (Jun 4, 2012)

there would be no Pt in the solder. there could be a little in the grey traces in the white ceramic chips. i had twenty or so that were several inches square surface area that had grey traces that was very hard to dissolve. it took a hard boil in AR to get all the traces off the ceramic.


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## tek4g63 (Jun 4, 2012)

> It started around the year 2000 and since that time lead has been banned from electronic solder (industrial scale, not for small business/private use).



I do not mean to cause any trouble, you had some great info, but this statement is not entirely true. Like I said above, untill 6 months ago I worked in a very large electronics manufacturing factory. They still use leaded solder. Most products have been changed to use silver solder but the government is not stupid, it would be impossible to just stop and change over to silver solder. Like you stated it comes with unique challenges. I don't know for sure what the time line set fourth was for companies was to get changed over, probably something like 15 or 20 years. With that said, the company I work for is still using lead solder on their top of the line products because it is the tried and true method and they are learning the ups and downs of silver solder on their cheaper products (the ones that they can afford to scrap a few. So please don't assume the scrap you have is cheap just because it is modern and still has leaded solder on it.


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## Marcel (Nov 2, 2012)

tek4g63 said:


> > It started around the year 2000 and since that time lead has been banned from electronic solder (industrial scale, not for small business/private use).
> 
> 
> 
> I do not mean to cause any trouble, you had some great info, but this statement is not entirely true. Like I said above, untill 6 months ago I worked in a very large electronics manufacturing factory. They still use leaded solder.



I can only judge this by the regulations I known in the european countries. Lead has been banned from all products (such as paint f.i)
I saw a horrible story the other day (Medical detectives) where a small child in the US licked on the paint of a window, because lead seems to taste sweet and it died within days.
Your goverment does a lot to support the national economy, sometimes in exchange for health risks for the consumer or loosing the competitive edge. This should not be understoood as a polictical statement, just a difference in the way national goverments set their priorities. In Germany and the rest of the EU, lead is an aboslute No-Go, no matter which product. Violations will be severely punished.
The positive effect is that the local industry has develeped alternative solutions and gained some competitive advantage over some other countries in that field (ERSA,Weller aso.)
You can observe a similiar effect when the prices for energy skyrocked here and the law that has ended gaining power from nuclear energy. Now we have great companies who produce
very innovative alternative products, harvesting energy from wind or else. Or see the car indistry, while US companies where still producing 8 cylinder gas wasting (but nice) cars, we were served the Smart car from Mercedes Benz. This backlog has cost the US carindustry thousands of jobs when their cars were not internationally competitive any more and the big players went banccrupt. Now the whole world wants cars that consume minimal gas and GM etc. have to rethink, redeseign and reinvent themselfs.
So both ways have their pro and cons.
Btw: Lead is still allowed at the shooting range :lol:


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 2, 2012)

eeTHr said:


> Fine silver can be used as hard solder, because it melts at a lower temperature than sterling.


Not true. This was written several months ago on page 1 of this thread but I just caught it. Actually, sterling melts at a temperature lower than pure silver. The melting points are: Pure silver = 961C; Sterling silver (92.5Ag/7.5Cu) = 893C; Coin silver (90Ag/10Cu) = 879C

The Ag/Cu alloy (eutectic) which has the lowest melting point (about 779.6C) is 71.9Ag/28.1Cu. 

It is interesting to note that all Ag/Cu binary alloys with less than about 82% copper have melting points lower than pure silver (961C), even though the melting point of pure copper is 1085C.


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## eeTHr (Nov 2, 2012)

Oops---Sorry! I guess I was thinking of something else from my silver jewelry days about 30 years ago.


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## plumbers (Nov 2, 2012)

Like tek said, I think the 60/40 has lead, and the other is 5% silver.

what i used years ago was 95/5 (95% Tin - 5% Antimony) no silver. and normally 50/50 (50% tin 50%lead).


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## marktrading (Nov 12, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> jmdlcar said:
> 
> 
> > I did a search on Silver solder. That why I ask that dumb question.
> ...



I totally agree with you.


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## Geo (Nov 12, 2012)

is it a new feature on the forum that keeps spam links from showing up or is one of our moderators taking the links out?


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