# Keshe Foundation



## JHS (Oct 27, 2015)

Curious as to weather anyone has been following the tutorials this week?
john


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## GotTheBug (Oct 28, 2015)

Thank you for the reminder!
Just found, apparently as I haven't watched the videos yet, they posted under their youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtQzN7XLiLvTpyUnQAa1mRw/videos


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## JHS (Oct 29, 2015)

I have been watching all week.I have also collected all the material and will start building after the blueprints have been released.I would like to see a unit in operation.
john


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## justinhcase (Oct 29, 2015)

I do not think any engineers I would trust have as yet got our new Messiah's(Got to have one or two alarm bells going off when some one publish numerous articles saying he him self is the worlds Messiah and brings lessons form the Universal entity am I wrong?)Concept of an energy generator up and running.
I proffer this guide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrBUoxLbg9c


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## g_axelsson (Oct 29, 2015)

As a physicist I can't tell it any better than the first comment here.
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/48335/is-keshes-technology-for-real

First comment I would fully agree with. The second comment seems to be made by Keshe himself and contains a number of errors or just technobabble.

Göran


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## JHS (Oct 29, 2015)

Keshe himself stated that physicist's would be the first to not understand,because of there training.
Not my words.
john


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## justinhcase (Oct 29, 2015)

JHS said:


> Keshe himself stated that physicist's would be the first to not understand,because of there training.
> Not my words.
> john


Do you have to be a trained Physicist to have a problem understanding how four plastic ball's spinning on different axis filled with an emulsion can form Plasma hot enough to produce a magnetic field of any sort,let alone become energy efficient enough a system to tap off an excess of energy?
How can he get exposure instead of medication?


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## g_axelsson (Oct 29, 2015)

JHS said:


> Keshe himself stated that physicist's would be the first to not understand,because of there training.
> Not my words.
> john


That is like stating that Lou, 4metals, GSP and Harry wouldn't understand how my fantastic ormus gold refining method works as they are trained in refining. :lol: 

Doesn't you understand that repeating their arguments makes you look quite gullible? If you turn that argument around he is basically saying : "Only people not trained in <insert area of expertise> can really understand that I am revolutionizing <area of expertise>."

Yeah, I'm trained in physics and I move around in research circuits. I know when I see something potentially revolutionary (not often) or just technobabble (quite often). If a person uses technical terms in the wrong way it's safe to assume that he doesn't have a clue about what he is talking about.

Göran


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## JHS (Oct 29, 2015)

To a caveman fire was technobabble.Then there was electricity,technobabble. Then we announced a trip to the moon,technobabble. let's not forget nuclear power and the splitting of the atom,technobabble.
Point is just because w don't understand,doesn't mean it does not exist.
I still haven't seen electricity inside a wire.
john


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## justinhcase (Oct 29, 2015)

Let's not attack the man,But he has represented him self as both a technological and religious guru if not Savior. 
That give's us some license to question openly his veracity.
Can a small plastic ball filled with any thing spontaneously leap to the fourth state of matter by simply being spun fast by an electric motor?
What exactly would happen if this ever actually happen,Would they form a symbiotic magnetic matrix that some how tap's into some source of energy.
It take's a very special type of magnetic containment to hold plasma.If this could happen quite a lot of every day equipment would become extremely hazardous to operate.
Have we had any unexplained explosion's around drill press's or lathe's or noted a similar phenomenon else where.
Thing that get's me is people will believe any one who give's them the answer they want instead of the actual truth of the matter.
Energy generation's is a miss name,no one ever generates any thing they simply find a large enough differential between to point's to be of use.
Now A Liquid Thorium reactor,that has some leg's.


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## g_axelsson (Oct 29, 2015)

JHS said:


> To a caveman fire was technobabble.Then there was electricity,technobabble. Then we announced a trip to the moon,technobabble. let's not forget nuclear power and the splitting of the atom,technobabble.
> Point is just because w don't understand,doesn't mean it does not exist.
> I still haven't seen electricity inside a wire.
> john


You better look up the definition of technobabble.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technobabble



> Technobabble (a portmanteau of technology and babble), also called technospeak,[1] is a form of jargon that uses buzzwords, esoteric language, specialized technical terms, or technical slang that is incomprehensible to the listener. Various fields of practice and industry have their own specialized vocabularies, or jargon, that allow those educated within that industry to concisely convey ideas that may be confusing, misleading, or nonsensical to an outside listener.[2] The difference between technobabble and jargon lies with the intent of the user and the audience: a dishonest person might use overly technical (and often meaningless) language to overwhelm and confuse the audience, masking their dishonesty, while a fiction writer might use it to cover plot holes or to invoke suspension of disbelief of story elements that defy current understandings of science and technology. Use of jargon within technical circles and with no intent to obfuscate is not usually included in the definition of technobabble.[2]



Just because you don't understand the language of the scientists and engineers of the world doesn't mean they are trying to fool you. None of your examples are of technobabble.

Talking about creating plasma by spinning a hollow sphere is technobabble, especially when claiming that anyone that knows what plasma is would never understand how it works.

I haven't seen oxygen in the air but I'm pretty convinced that it exists, In the same way you can't see electricity in a wire but just look at the world around you, I think you have a hard time to deny it's existence. All from the movement of silver atoms in a silver cell to how computers works are guided by electricity, just because your eyes can't see it says more about your eyes than about electricity.

This forum is about science and I'm intending to keep it that way. Keshe is nothing about science as far as I've seen.

Göran


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## JHS (Oct 29, 2015)

Justin,
You do not see me making coils or nano coating wires yet.As I said,I will wait until I see a operating unit.
I just collected the list of materials from different location's on my property so if it works I have them on hand.
I have seen a lot of snake oil in my life,and learned to step back and take note.
john


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## JHS (Oct 29, 2015)

This forum is about science and I'm intending to keep it that way. Keshe is nothing about science as far as I've seen.

Göran


This particular thread is in bar and grill,and breaks no forum rules.
Please do not threaten me.
john


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## justinhcase (Oct 29, 2015)

JHS said:


> Justin,
> You do not see me making coils or nano coating wires yet.As I said,I will wait until I see a operating unit.
> I just collected the list of materials from different location's on my property so if it works I have them on hand.
> I have seen a lot of snake oil in my life,and learned to step back and take note.
> john


Fair enough.I keep a small half size shipping container full of equipment like generator's,respirator's and dry good's just in case
They use to call me Justin Case because I all way's had the necessary kit.
Then Justin Time as I could actually beat mix properly followed by Justin Trance for the effect I had on crowd's,then Justin Tense because they did not like to debate,
Finlay it was Justin Sane as they tended to loos the argument so I retired.
Now my friends are calling me Justin Gold and I am enjoying all your company and talk ,thank you so much.
Regards
Just


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## g_axelsson (Oct 29, 2015)

JHS said:


> > This forum is about science and I'm intending to keep it that way. Keshe is nothing about science as far as I've seen.
> >
> > Göran
> 
> ...


I don't threaten you, just saying that I will always stand up whenever I see something that is obviously not correct, no matter if it's monopole magnets, crystal healing, alchemy or a self appointed Saviour that is discussed. I will expose any subject discussed that I see where hogwash is concealed as science.

Just because this is bar & grill doesn't mean we don't have high standards.

Göran


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## justinhcase (Oct 29, 2015)

g_axelsson said:


> JHS said:
> 
> 
> > > This forum is about science and I'm intending to keep it that way. Keshe is nothing about science as far as I've seen.
> ...


I do like the Bar and Grill.
If only you could get a nice large bloody Steak and stiff drink It would be heaven.
One is expected to get a little silly in a bar,but I agree to strict scientific tolerances or it is no fun.


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## JHS (Oct 29, 2015)

The point is to keep an open mind.When you close your mind you go back to rubbing two sticks together.
john

P.S. I like the idea of that bloody stick. :twisted:


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## Harold_V (Oct 31, 2015)

I'm totally amazed that any of you folks think this guy is for real. 

Fact. 

You can't get more energy out of ANY DEVICE than you put in. For that matter, you can't get out as much energy as you put in. There is no perpetual motion, there is no free energy, and there is no free lunch.

Göran has it right, and I stand with him. Let this thread die a natural death. I don't want to give ANYONE the impression that we, here, are foolish enough to buy that kind of garbage. That this forum is the Bar and Grill makes no difference. We don't discuss nonsense on this board, and that's not going to change. 

If you're of a mind that this kook is on to something that works, build one, operate it as instructed, then come back to this board and detail the results. Those of us who are from Planet Earth already know what it will be. Mean time stop promoting something that makes no sense. It detracts from the purpose of this board.

Harold


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## JHS (Oct 31, 2015)

Harold,
Please post a list of the nonsense topics that are unacceptable,so I do not make this mistake again.
jhs
P.S..if the title bar and grill and purpose is to discuss everything else,
then leave it open for all discussions,not just the one's you agree with.I am not saying there is any validity to keshe,just that we should not be restricted to a few peoples views.
Am I wrong. 
john


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## 4metals (Oct 31, 2015)

I don't think you will see a list from Harold because aside from the obvious, politics, sex, and religion, it's pretty much impossible to list every potential nonsensical thing that may come along. It is our hope that our members would be able to make those same judgement calls as well. 

This is a technical forum based on scientific principles, with that we assume that our members will display the same common sense that we encourage them to display while working with chemicals, when posting. Even in the bar and grill section where things are a bit lighter.


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## Smack (Oct 31, 2015)

Keshe's claims will be self evident soon enough. You know there are people out there that will build this thing and if it's real then there is no way you won't hear about it (working). If you don't hear about it, you still have your answer. I'm sure everyone has more productive things they can work on, if not, your time would be better spent with family than building something like that thing and getting covered in G.A.N.S., that just sounds gross.


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## Harold_V (Nov 1, 2015)

JHS said:


> Harold,
> Please post a list of the nonsense topics that are unacceptable,so I do not make this mistake again.
> jhs
> P.S..if the title bar and grill and purpose is to discuss everything else,
> ...


Wrong is a pretty strong word, for it's subjective. Some folks have a keen desire to believe things that defy logic to be true. They are often prime candidates for being suckered by others who seek to take from them their right to rule their own lives, or to take from them that which they have earned through the sweat of their brow. 

One of my dearest friends is such a person, yet he is amongst the most intelligent of those with which I am personally acquainted. Some time ago he sent me drawings of what constituted a method of operating an internal combustion engine on water. If you, or anyone here, thinks that's going to happen, there is no hope for you, for people are born with enough sense to understand that we can not defy the laws of physics (which man has observed, not created), and some simply don't have the ability. 

There will be no forthcoming list, for it borders on the impossible for me, or anyone, to create a list of subjects that shouldn't be discussed on this board, not even in the Bar & Grill. It gets down to wasting the time of those of us who attempt to keep this board running smoothly-----*a simple observation of the words posted by 4metals are more than adequate for the vast majority of readers. * A good example of what isn't acceptable is a running thread of jokes. While they may amuse, they waste time, time that detracts from the purpose of the board, to say nothing of wasting the time of moderators, who are bound, more or less, to read all threads to ensure that nothing is embedded that shouldn't be on the board. 

If one doesn't have enough common sense to have the ability to sort unreasonable claims from reality, it might be a good idea to read instead of post. 

No, that is not a directive to you. It is a suggestion that might prevent starting threads that aren't worth the space they take and the energy that is wasted on nonsense. 

If you, as well as all others, would keep one thing in mind, you'd be well served in life. I already made mention. It can be summed up in one simple phrase, it being that there is no free lunch. If something appears to be too good to be true, it most likely is. 

Harold


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## UncleBenBen (Nov 1, 2015)

Thank you Harold!


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## Geo (Nov 1, 2015)

This is an example of free energy, as a matter of fact, the only one I have found the was real. Nitinol, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_titanium is memory metal. It has been known of since the early 1960's and has been adapted and used to make engines that can be powered by ambient temperatures. Using solar power or just the difference of temperature between the air and water (sea,ocean,lake,or waste heat from industry). From wiki :
Demonstration model heat engines have been built which use nitinol wire to produce mechanical energy from hot and cold heat sources.[34] A prototype commercial engine developed in the 1970s by engineer Ridgway Banks at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, was named the Banks Engine.

https://youtu.be/8-dCIkJAjyM

https://youtu.be/oKmYqUSDch8

I have read articles where it has been commented that there's a government conspiracy that has squashed development of these engines on the behest of the oil companies. I am not one to believe in conspiracy theories but this technology is old news and still not being utilized. This material has been known for about sixty years and still hasn't been placed in areas where it would be beneficial.


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## JHS (Nov 1, 2015)

Nitinol, so in theory you could make a car that runs on water?


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## Geo (Nov 1, 2015)

In theory but the technology is nowhere near the ability. If it had been funded instead of being squashed, who knows?


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## g_axelsson (Nov 2, 2015)

Geo said:


> This is an example of free energy, as a matter of fact, the only one I have found the was real. Nitinol, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_titanium is memory metal. It has been known of since the early 1960's and has been adapted and used to make engines that can be powered by ambient temperatures. Using solar power or just the difference of temperature between the air and water (sea,ocean,lake,or waste heat from industry). From wiki :
> Demonstration model heat engines have been built which use nitinol wire to produce mechanical energy from hot and cold heat sources.[34] A prototype commercial engine developed in the 1970s by engineer Ridgway Banks at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, was named the Banks Engine.
> 
> https://youtu.be/8-dCIkJAjyM
> ...


It's *not* an example of free energy. It's a heat engine and it works on well known physical principles. It's called thermodynamics and is one of the basic physic courses at the university. One of the most famous heat engines around is the sterling engine, it is used today in areas from solar power plants, heated by the sun to powering nuclear submarines, no explosive combustion makes for a very quiet engine.

Sorry, that is no argument for free energy and if you don't understand that then you don't understand basic physics.

Maybe the reason the Banks Engine isn't around is because it's not practical and not cost effective? The main competitor would be the sterling engine.

And can someone explain for me how a heat engine running on heat differentials in any way gives the slightest proof that a car can run on water?

Göran


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## justinhcase (Nov 2, 2015)

If a lizard can do it some one could come up with a car that did the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45yabrnryXk
and they can be fueled by hydrogen which make's water.
But as of yet no one can go against the law of conservation of energy.May be we will eventually even learn to bend it a little bit.
Energy it's self is free and abundant we just have not reached to large power point in the sky yet.


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## Geo (Nov 2, 2015)

The only way Nitinol becomes a free energy source is the expanding and contracting. It can be use to pump water. Once the machine is set into motion, it will continue until it is stopped by an outside force. It works on thermal exchange between the cool water being pumped and the normal air temperature. I've seen video of models and is akin to windmills used to pump water but these can be used where there is no wind. As far as powering a vehicle, it can't be done with what they have now. It's only a theory that they can generate enough torque to power an automobile. Of coarse, being a heat exchange engine, there would have to first be heat to power the engine. The heat from friction may be enough to power the engine, again, in theory. It has been theorized that solar panels and batteries may be able to provide what is needed but there again, that technology has not been studied to it's full potential either. Arguably something that is outdated. But remember, all of this was theorized in the 70's. Today's concept cars all run on either hybrid fuel/electric or fully electric. Things like heat engines seen their time come and pass. It is quite a moot point now. R&D would never produce a vehicle with a heat engine that could out perform the cheapest hybrid. Of coarse this is my opinion. I believe in the laws of probability. Could it be done? Yes, it could be done, but, it probably never will be.


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## g_axelsson (Nov 2, 2015)

justinhcase said:


> If a lizard can do it some one could come up with a car that did the same.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45yabrnryXk
> and they can be fueled by hydrogen which make's water.
> But as of yet no one can go against the law of conservation of energy.May be we will eventually even learn to bend it a little bit.
> Energy it's self is free and abundant we just have not reached to large power point in the sky yet.


Hydrogen is NOT the same thing as water. Try lit a torch with water and then compare it with a hydrogen torch.

Come back when you got the water torch working.

Free energy in monetary terms have nothing to do with creating energy out of thin air. Come to think of it, then you must admit that there is nothing as free energy as you have to pay for the cables at least.

Göran


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## g_axelsson (Nov 2, 2015)

Geo said:


> The only way Nitinol becomes a free energy source is the expanding and contracting. It can be use to pump water. Once the machine is set into motion, it will continue until it is stopped by an outside force. It works on thermal exchange between the cool water being pumped and the normal air temperature. I've seen video of models and is akin to windmills used to pump water but these can be used where there is no wind. As far as powering a vehicle, it can't be done with what they have now. It's only a theory that they can generate enough torque to power an automobile. Of coarse, being a heat exchange engine, there would have to first be heat to power the engine. The heat from friction may be enough to power the engine, again, in theory. It has been theorized that solar panels and batteries may be able to provide what is needed but there again, that technology has not been studied to it's full potential either. Arguably something that is outdated. But remember, all of this was theorized in the 70's. Today's concept cars all run on either hybrid fuel/electric or fully electric. Things like heat engines seen their time come and pass. It is quite a moot point now. R&D would never produce a vehicle with a heat engine that could out perform the cheapest hybrid. Of coarse this is my opinion. I believe in the laws of probability. Could it be done? Yes, it could be done, but, it probably never will be.


You don't make any sense, why would pumping motion make it a free energy source? It only works as long as you have a thermal differential and when you extract work from it you simultaneously transfer heat from the warm source into the cold sink. After a while the difference is too small and the engine stops. That's plain physics.
To keep it running we must heat the hot side and cool the cold side and that costs energy, more energy than we can extract. That's a law of nature and it's been proven right from the 18'th century up until today and nothing have changed it during all this time.

There IS NO FREE LUNCH when it comes to energy transformation. It always costs more energy to get some usable energy (electrical, mechanical) out of a heat source. It's called entropy.

I agree with Harold, this thread is just stupid and should die.



JHS said:


> Nitinol, so in theory you could make a car that runs on water?





> In theory but the technology is nowhere near the ability. If it had been funded instead of being squashed, who knows?


Maybe in fairyland but not in real life, unless you can build a nuclear fusion reactor small enough to fit a car. I don't think that's what we are talking about here.

Göran


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## JHS (Nov 2, 2015)

Nitinol ,solar,and battery backup.
I think the differential here is in the definition of free energy.The scientist looks at power in power out, versus cost. 
The average man thinks of free energy as a initial investment and then little or no future cost.Solar,Okay that is not free energy,but it would be as close as we can get.I put the task of free energy squarely on the shoulders of our scientists to bring to humanity. 
john


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## g_axelsson (Nov 2, 2015)

JHS said:


> Nitinol ,solar,and battery backup.
> I think the differential here is in the definition of free energy.The scientist looks at power in power out, versus cost.
> The average man thinks of free energy as a initial investment and then little or no future cost.Solar,Okay that is not free energy,but it would be as close as we can get.I put the task of free energy squarely on the shoulders of our scientists to bring to humanity.
> john


My mistake then, as a scientist I look at cost as in energy cost. It always costs energy to convert energy into any other form than heat.

But still, to use electricity to heat nitinol to transform into motion must be a very inefficient way instead of using an electric motor directly.

Göran


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## JHS (Nov 2, 2015)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ8KVzDeYaI
Real or fake?


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## g_axelsson (Nov 2, 2015)

Fake!

Göran


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## jeneje (Nov 2, 2015)

Where do these people come up with this JUNK!

Ken


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## g_axelsson (Nov 2, 2015)

jeneje said:


> Where do these people come up with this JUNK!
> 
> Ken


Mostly youtube it seems. :mrgreen: 

Göran


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## galenrog (Nov 2, 2015)

Would someone please lock this thread.


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## jeneje (Nov 3, 2015)

galenrog said:


> Would someone please lock this thread.


Locking this thread would serve NO purpose. The OP would just start another one with something different. :roll: 

Ken


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## JHS (Nov 3, 2015)

Lock it,delete it,who cares.


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## 4metals (Nov 3, 2015)

JHS said:


> Lock it,delete it,who cares.



You don't seem to get it, do you? Both Harold and I tried to put it in a nice way but you insist on finding obscure crap and cluttering up this forum and act like you have a "right" to post more of it. 

Let me inform you that you do have the right, and as a moderator I have the right to ban you for it. You have been politely asked, and you didn't get it, so now you are being warned, stop posting this type of nonsensical crap.


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## Anonymous (Nov 3, 2015)

Haha class reply. No splinters from sitting on the fence there! 8) 8)


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## Harold_V (Nov 4, 2015)

Did the readers not get my comment about letting this thread die? 

DROP IT!

I am not the slightest bit interested in conversations that are nonsensical, and this one takes the cake. Makes Pons & Fleischmann look reasonable. 

*Who wishes to be the first one banned for further posting on this subject?* (Moderators adding comments excepted)

It_* will *_come to pass, and it won't be by consensus.

It will be my pleasure.

Harold


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