# Rip Van Dam Mine in Boulder CO Possible reopen for Rhodium



## Zlaura19822 (Apr 19, 2022)

Hi,

I am at my wits end trying to find a usa refiner for the rhodium. I am suspecting why Noone has bought this mine is because of the lack of places to process. 

Is there anyone who would like to give me their expertise on this. I have spoken to Johnson-matthey, and sabayne stillwater., rino Timo, and metalor. I don't know where to turn to. Or if I am going to get this done I'm going to have to get.a refinery and mill built ? Or am I able to ship concentrate to South Africa ?


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## Lou (Apr 19, 2022)

No, it's because there's probably no rhodium and isolated assays which were most likely in error do not a workable deposit make.

I'd not torment myself over rhodium at these levels. Everyone sees a big number on the screen but unless you handle, sell, move, process it on a day to day, they don't understand how much work it is to get that into a concentrate that is even worthwhile to mess around.

Now if this material in question was super rich in nickel or cobalt, could be matted, and the nickel and other elements used as collector to take in the PGEs, you'd have something. Right now, you have commercially useless rocks that likely do not have any rhodium, and even if they did, the technology to recover it in the absence of sulfide formers from iron, silica and other crap as matrix materials...well it don't exist.


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## orvi (Apr 19, 2022)

It will need a serious assay within an error limit. Understanding which deposite type it is and where the Rh is. Because it is very common to have Rh read on assay (mainly XRF), but in reality it isn´t there. Or even bigger like 10-20 kg production sample run through smelting furnance by professional who knows how to smelt and scavenge Rh. Fair 10 kg sample, or even just 2-3 kg will tell you very reliable numbers about what is in the ore you have. 

As Lou said, if it was an sulfide ore with good NiCo content, then you can concentrate by gravity and then directly smelt to obtain values. Otherwise you will need to add collector metal. Melt the whole lot, if you cannot concentrate it - lots of money and work. 

Firstly, you need to know if you can make a concentrate out of this ore. Try to pulverize say 1 kg of ore, pan it down to 100 g or even less, and then make an assay of the concentrates. If you can get it 10x more concentrated and there will be significant Rh in the upcoming assay (knowing the losses in tailings) , than congrats, you have something to work on and it will be probably good.

PGMs are hard to work with.


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## Zlaura19822 (Apr 19, 2022)

What do you think of the amount of gold and silver ?


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## Zlaura19822 (Apr 19, 2022)

Here is a fire assay


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## Zlaura19822 (Nov 28, 2022)

So here is my update, I found a guy named Hal and he is able to precipitate the rhodium. It is coming out as anywhere from 4 oz per ton, to 20oz per ton at the dyke. Jamestown, CO. Everyone thought it was a joke or wrong ,but since I didn't know anybetter I just believed in it. So PGMS are wayyyyy more prevalent than I was told, I was also told that Colorado School of Mines suppressed the fact that it's so readily available due to WW2 and some contract the US had with Russia to buy rhodium from them and not mass produce it.


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## Zlaura19822 (Nov 28, 2022)

Here is the xrf of the most recent fire assay. I took the bead and had them shoot it.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 28, 2022)

Zlaura19822 said:


> View attachment 53361
> 
> Here is the xrf of the most recent fire assay. I took the bead and had them shoot it.


A fire assay is not a XRF and vice versa. 
All though a bead from a coupel can be XRF tested it is not very precise.

An assay for PGM is not a standard fire assay. 
It is usually a NiS assay and quite expensive.


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## orvi (Nov 28, 2022)

Zlaura19822 said:


> View attachment 53361
> 
> Here is the xrf of the most recent fire assay. I took the bead and had them shoot it.


Cadmium present after fire assay... I am not sure what fire assay they performed, but I am hesitant to believe that after heating an alloy past 1000°C would contain any Cd at all. It burns very rapidly at these temperatures and eventually all evaporates. 

Also, composition of these elements together (Sn, Rh, Ru, Pd, Ag, In, Cd... ) is very odd.

I would question the XRF machine. Standard deviation more than few % is very very high. Espetially for that tin - more than 33%... I wouldn´t believe results which came from such machine at all.


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## Lou (Nov 28, 2022)

I think the time has come for a class action law suit against ThermoFisher (and other portable XRF manufacturers) for wasting our collective time (and so many untold peoples') for phantom rhodium and iridium based on the results of their wonky instruments.


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## orvi (Nov 28, 2022)

Lou said:


> I think the time has come for a class action law suit against ThermoFisher (and other portable XRF manufacturers) for wasting our collective time (and so many untold peoples') for phantom rhodium and iridium based on the results of their wonky instruments.


I mean... Deviation of 33% is like a bad joke  what you are supposed to achieve by using this crap machine ? Many folks here use it too and it, as you said, waste time of all interested around. Once, one folk collected silvery looking pins as the XRF showed him Rh. They were from old MIL devices, so there was precedent to assume they can be Rh plated - and by the way some cen be, I have found few types for real in similar devices. He wasted like 2 days of his life doing it, and then it come out it is just nickel plated, and machine shown Rh incorrectly. Like 1-5% on the reading - of metallic material. And yes, casing of the machine was yellow


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## goldandsilver123 (Nov 28, 2022)

Lou said:


> I think the time has come for a class action law suit against ThermoFisher (and other portable XRF manufacturers) for wasting our collective time (and so many untold peoples') for phantom rhodium and iridium based on the results of their wonky instruments.



Unfortunately, I've seen many times, people dreaming of Rh and Pd from their sand material, spending money they don't have because of this type of report.

Also, people selling "Rh and Pd ore" and naïve people buying because of the assay....

And you have to be the one to end their dream, not pleasant.


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## goldshark (Nov 29, 2022)

Maybe a stream line against faulty XRF readings, could be facilitated by explaining that the PGM's occur in only certain granitic rock types. I have never heard of Rh ores occurring anywhere in the Western US. Although, I have not researched them very thoroughly. Somebody more familiar with them, feel free to chime in.


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## kurtak (Nov 29, 2022)

Lou said:


> Now if this material in question was super rich in nickel or cobalt,


Lou - what do you know about PGMs be associated with chromium ores

I ask because there are some old (no longer worked) chromium mines where I live & the supposed rumor is that small percentages of PGMs ran with this chromium ore

Kurt


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## PGMMEX (Nov 29, 2022)

El análisis de XRF indica posible contenido de PGM. Los cuales pueden ser sulfuros, óxidos y PGM, nativo. Si se concentra el mineral con PGM, solo concentraria PGM nativo y perdería los sulfuros y óxidos que contienen PGM. Por lo tanto para concentrar debe moler a malla 200, luego flotar sulfuros y óxidos. Y a las colas realizar gravimetria. 

Carlos


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## PGMMEX (Nov 29, 2022)

Mi compañía GRUPO REFINADOR PGM SA DE CV, recomienda Axium Scientific en Sparks, Nevada, ya que son muy respetados en todo el mundo cuando se trata de analisis de PGM mineral en breña o concentrados o dore. Este laboratorio también es recomendado por Metal &Catalyst en Texas.

Carlos 

Axium Scientific – Precious Metal Assayers


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 29, 2022)

PGMMEX said:


> El análisis de XRF indica posible contenido de PGM. Los cuales pueden ser sulfuros, óxidos y PGM, nativo. Si se concentra el mineral con PGM, solo concentraria PGM nativo y perdería los sulfuros y óxidos que contienen PGM. Por lo tanto para concentrar debe moler a malla 200, luego flotar sulfuros y óxidos. Y a las colas realizar gravimetria.
> 
> Carlos


Please post in English, this forum has English as main language due to its international members.


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## PGMMEX (Nov 29, 2022)

XRF analysis indicates possible PGM content. Which can be sulfides, oxides and PGM, native. If you concentrate the ore with PGM, you would only concentrate native PGM and lose the sulfides and oxides that contain PGM. Therefore to concentrate you must grind to 200 mesh, then float sulfides and oxides. And to the tails perform gravimetry. Carlos


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## PGMMEX (Nov 29, 2022)

My company, recommended the lab Axium Scientific in Sparks, Nevada state, for analysis PGM in mineral ore and dore. This laboratorio is recommended by Metal & Catalyst in Texas.

Carlos


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## Lou (Nov 29, 2022)

Axium is a good lab. Cody Burke is the man to talk to there.


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## Zlaura19822 (Nov 29, 2022)

goldshark said:


> Maybe a stream line against faulty XRF readings, could be facilitated by explaining that the PGM's occur in only certain granitic rock types. I have never heard of Rh ores occurring anywhere in the Western US. Although, I have not researched them very thoroughly. Somebody more familiar with them, feel free to chime in.


I was told by everyone in the gold mining business there's no way there could be PGMS let alone Rhodium, I didn't know exactly how unbelievable or I wouldn't have pursued it, my ignorance became a blessing and I took core samples, dump material and slurry and had them fire assayed by 3 separate labs and finished with AA(atomic absorb) ICP and ED XRF. So I guess there is a huge conspiracy about PGMs in mines, at least that's the gossip I've heard.


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## Zlaura19822 (Nov 29, 2022)

Here are some assays


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## PGMMEX (Nov 29, 2022)

There is a presence of PGM throughout the planet with grades from milligrams per ton and even 120 grams of PGM in ore and Pt, Pd, Rhodium and Iridium are included as well as sulfides, oxides and in their native state.
Carlos


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## goldshark (Nov 30, 2022)

Any body care to share as to what host rocks they can be associated with? IE replacement in Limestone, hydrothermal quartz veins, replacement in Quartites, lenses in migmatites, please list some occurrences.How is the Jamestown deposit described? Others in the western US?


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 30, 2022)

Zlaura19822 said:


> Here are some assays


Much double posting now.
There still is no assays though?


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## Sitta yagodoka (Nov 30, 2022)

Zlaura19822 said:


> How much does it cost to buy this deviceView attachment 53361
> 
> Here is the xrf of the most recent fire assay. I took the bead and had them shoot it.


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## galenrog (Nov 30, 2022)

The XRF device shown in post #7 is that of a device loaded with a precious metals library. As such, when it encounters any elements not in its preloaded library, it will default to elements in its library, rather than showing some elements as unknown.

Arsenic and many sulfides show up as iridium, rhodium, or platinum. Many plastics also. 

An XRF device is only as reliable as a combination of the preloaded library, calibration, and operator experience, knowledge and expertise.

Time for more coffee.


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## PGMMEX (Nov 30, 2022)

galenrog said:


> El dispositivo XRF que se muestra en la publicación n.º 7 es el de un dispositivo cargado con una biblioteca de metales preciosos. Como tal, cuando encuentra algún elemento que no está en su biblioteca precargada, seguramente de forma predeterminada los elementos de su biblioteca, en lugar de mostrar algunos elementos como desconocidos.
> 
> El arsénico y muchos sulfuros aparecen como iridio, rodio o platino. Muchos plasticos tambien.
> 
> ...


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## PGMMEX (Nov 30, 2022)

Good comments.


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## rhwhite67 (Dec 1, 2022)

From the time the Us bought Alaska from Russia part of the deal was that no pgms would be produced in the Us for 100 years. So what was done was the government required all assay labs to deny their existence for that time and so everyone started believing that they did not exist in the US. However, I know an old assayer who was putting metal in hand proven PGMs in people's hands back in the 1960s long before XRF units using an old carbide lamp powered spectrometer that directly reads the metal powder place on the surface. Unfortunately the company that used to manufacture that spectrometer stopped manufacturing them in about 1968-1970. Those units had a problem ... They would read all of the elements placed into them and the government could not have that do the company discontinued them. There is a lot of PGM ore in the US both low and high-grade. If in doubt about your samples send them to ALS Chemex in Vancouver CA. Order test PGM-MS25NS. 
Au, Pt, Pd, Ir, Os, Rh, Ru by nickel sulphide collection fire assay and ICP-MS finish.
30g nominal sample weight. You'll get legitimate results. Ron


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## goldshark (Dec 1, 2022)

Never heard that one before. Since when did anyone stick to an agreement like that? I'm still waiting to hear of occurrences of PGM's in Western US ores.


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## rushmore37 (Dec 2, 2022)

rhwhite67 said:


> From the time the Us bought Alaska from Russia part of the deal was that no pgms would be produced in the Us for 100 years. So what was done was the government required all assay labs to deny their existence for that time and so everyone started believing that they did not exist in the US. However, I know an old assayer who was putting metal in hand proven PGMs in people's hands back in the 1960s long before XRF units using an old carbide lamp powered spectrometer that directly reads the metal powder place on the surface. Unfortunately the company that used to manufacture that spectrometer stopped manufacturing them in about 1968-1970. Those units had a problem ... They would read all of the elements placed into them and the government could not have that do the company discontinued them. There is a lot of PGM ore in the US both low and high-grade. If in doubt about your samples send them to ALS Chemex in Vancouver CA. Order test PGM-MS25NS.
> Au, Pt, Pd, Ir, Os, Rh, Ru by nickel sulphide collection fire assay and ICP-MS finish.
> 30g nominal sample weight. You'll get legitimate results. Ron


Excellent info -- Thank You so much for sharing. I also spoke to an insider at one of the larger mining supply companies who said that there are lots more PGMs in the US than most will believe, but that this has been systematically kept from people probably for reasons stated elsewhere herein. Processes used in Russia to go from ore to end product are so different than ours that it is almost scary.


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 2, 2022)

rhwhite67 said:


> From the time the Us bought Alaska from Russia part of the deal was that no pgms would be produced in the Us for 100 years. So what was done was the government required all assay labs to deny their existence for that time and so everyone started believing that they did not exist in the US. However, I know an old assayer who was putting metal in hand proven PGMs in people's hands back in the 1960s long before XRF units using an old carbide lamp powered spectrometer that directly reads the metal powder place on the surface. Unfortunately the company that used to manufacture that spectrometer stopped manufacturing them in about 1968-1970. Those units had a problem ... They would read all of the elements placed into them and the government could not have that do the company discontinued them. There is a lot of PGM ore in the US both low and high-grade. If in doubt about your samples send them to ALS Chemex in Vancouver CA. Order test PGM-MS25NS.
> Au, Pt, Pd, Ir, Os, Rh, Ru by nickel sulphide collection fire assay and ICP-MS finish.
> 30g nominal sample weight. You'll get legitimate results. Ron


This is some extraordinary claims, so I hope you have some extraordinary evidence.


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 2, 2022)

rushmore37 said:


> Excellent info -- Thank You so much for sharing. I also spoke to an insider at one of the larger mining supply companies who said that there are lots more PGMs in the US than most will believe, but that this has been systematically kept from people probably for reasons stated elsewhere herein. Processes used in Russia to go from ore to end product are so different than ours that it is almost scary.


Interesting, do you have some examples?


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## Lou (Dec 2, 2022)

There are PGMs here in the USA. There are rare earth deposits too. There's tantalum and lithium as well. That's not the issue. No one is saying that "sorry mining people there's no iridium here in the USA". I'm not even going to go so far as to say there's no iridium in the mining people's shiny rocks. At some level, there probably is. What I'm going to go so far as to say is that there's _probably_ (approaching damn near certainly) not enough iridium (or other PGM) in there to get someone like me interested in producing iridium metal from them. rushmore37 is right: processes in Russia are different than ours. As are those in China and S. Africa and places without an EPA. We can't do a lot of the things that those countries can do (and rightfully so, in my opinion!)

Here's an interesting read too:



https://mn.water.usgs.gov/projects/tesnar/2011/Presentations/MillerDC%20Min_USGS%20workshop.pdf



The issue is that sometimes these deposits don't have enough other goodies to make them workable. Or they aren't high enough in grade to go after by themselves. 

This forum gets a lot of "I have PGM in my rocks from my mine in _______ and I'm going to be rich as soon as I find someone to process it". Just about every month, I get one or more phone call from someone I've never heard from that's not in the industry that wants me to quote them on rhodium or iridium in some ore material they have. Just to make it exciting these days I ask who gave them my number, who recommended me, and "is it safe?".  
I then explain that they need to send out for proper labs and that ours doesn't do screening tests. 

There's a lot of boys crying a lot of wolf.


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## kurtak (Dec 2, 2022)

There has been a lot posting lately with claims of ores containing PGMs - most if not all of those claims made on the ore being shot with an XRF - *which we know is unreliable (can not be trusted)* & therefore if an XRF claims PGMs to be in the ore an *actual assay (for PGMs)* *MUST* be done to confirm there are in fact PGMs in the ore

If the ore in question is ore from here in the U.S. - inevitably somewhere in the discussion we will see a comment to the effect of (though not exactly) no such thing as PGMs found in ore in the U.S.


goldshark said:


> I'm still waiting to hear of occurrences of PGM's in Western US ores.



Here where I live in Eastern Oregon in the hay day of mining the miners mined primarily for 3 metals so the mines where 1) gold mines - 2) copper mines - 3) Chromium

So when ever I go hiking & run across an old digging I will ask some of the locals (families that go back to settling here during the mining hay days) "what kind of mine were these old diggings I ran across"

A few times (3-4 times) I was told - "that was a platinum mine" --- which I had a hard time believing 

So this morning I decided to do a search using - "iridium mines in grant county oregon"

As we know ALL ores contain more then just one metal so they are mined primarily (first order) the predominant metal but also (depending on the mining operation) for there secondary (second order) metal & even there tertiary (third order) metal

As it turns out - these so called platinum mines were actually mined for chromium as there primary metal - but - they were also mined for there PGM as ether secondary or tertiary metals (&/or at least assayed for there PGMs)

Here are some of my search results

List of Chromium mines in Grant County (4 pages long)



https://thediggings.com/usa/oregon/grant-or023/mines?commodity=chromium



Of those 4 pages 6 of them show PGMs being mined as (at least) a tertiary metal (nickel likely secondary)



https://thediggings.com/usa/oregon/grant-or023/mines?commodity=iridium



One example of those 6 mines (PGMs being the tertiary metal)



https://thediggings.com/mines/9620



Then there is this one listing chromium/nickel/platinum all mined as primary metals with the platinum coming in at .02 ozt/ton



https://thediggings.com/mines/usgs10039223



Then in a search using - "iridium mines in the u.s." - it comes up with this

https://thediggings.com/commodities/iridium/usa 

The top 3 states are ------

1) California listing 97 mines with 71 actual producers
2) Oregon listing 79 mines with 67 actual producers
3) Alaska listing 22 mines with (all) 22 actual produces

All the others states listed show 7 or less mines

Edit to add; - *NONE* of these are actually iridium (or PGM) mines - they are *ALL* some other kind of other mine (gold copper chromium nickel etc. etc.) they are just listed as PGM mine because assays show (ppb) of PGMs in the assays --- in other words - PGMs were in the ore - but - PGMs were *NOT *what they were mining for

So are PGMs found in ores here in the U.S. --- *absolutely* - are PGM ores mined primarily for there PGMs - *NO* - they are considered a second order or third order commodity (by product) of the primary metal they are mining for

For what it is worth

Kurt


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## kurtak (Dec 2, 2022)

Lou said:


> There are PGMs here in the USA. There are rare earth deposits too. There's tantalum and lithium as well. That's not the issue. No one is saying that "sorry mining people there's no iridium here in the USA". I'm not even going to go so far as to say there's no iridium in the mining people's shiny rocks. At some level, there probably is. What I'm going to go so far as to say is that there's _probably_ (approaching damn near certainly) not enough iridium (or other PGM) in there to get someone like me interested in producing iridium metal from them. rushmore37 is right: processes in Russia are different than ours. As are those in China and S. Africa and places without an EPA. We can't do a lot of the things that those countries can do (and rightfully so, in my opinion!)
> 
> Here's an interesting read too:
> 
> ...



 ---You beat me to it Lou - I was still typing when you posted 


By the way - cool link - I am going to have to go back to it for a closer look (I am slowly but surely trying to get a better understand of the geology)

Kurt


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## galenrog (Dec 2, 2022)

For both Lou and Kurt, occasionally (meaning very rarely) native platinum nuggets are found in extreme northwest California and extreme southwest Oregon. Typically one or two every year are reported on by local press. 

I know a little of the geology of the area, but not enough to voice a qualified opinion, although I have read excerpts of reports showing platinum, and occasionally other PGMs as third and fourth tier metals in chromium mines that were once active in the area.

The nickel mine near Riddle, during its lifetime, shows in some write ups, to have produced several tons of platinum through the life of the mine. Since these did not cite official reports, take them as you will.

That whole region is fascinating. Nearly as fascinating as Kurt’s home turf near John Day. I centered my explorations of ghost camps near Seneca several years ago when I last visited for longer than a day or two. 

Due to medical issues I no longer explore. That and moving to central Texas and taking up new hobbies.

Enjoy.

Time for more coffee.


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## goldshark (Dec 2, 2022)

Sort of a similar situation here, in that during the 1950's Uranium boom, the USGS listed potential Uranium mines. The threshold for being a Uranium mine was not very high. I don't have the exact numbers. However, what it did was reclassify many old Gold mines, which had a higher then normal back ground count, as a Uranium mines. You can count on the government to create something called a SNAFU ( Situation Normal All F----ed Up ), at the Bureau of Mines.


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## kurtak (Dec 5, 2022)

Lou said:


> Here's an interesting read too:
> 
> https://mn.water.usgs.gov/projects/tesnar/2011/Presentations/MillerDC Min_USGS workshop.pdf



Lou - just went over the link you provided - interesting - there is actually a well known copper ore (primarily) belt not just up in Minnesota but Wisconsin as well in that Lake Superior region --- not sure about the Minnesota side but on the Wisconsin side copper mining was quite the industry back in the day before heavy EPA regulation

A number of years ago I did a bit of exploring up in Douglas County WI & still have an 84 gram solid copper nugget I picked up as well as a small bucket of ore with visible copper in it 

I had no idea the copper ore in that region had PGMs in it --- I should have filled my pickup truck with ore & I could now be a wealthy man   

Kurt


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