# Renstilskens wacky questions.



## Renstilsken (Aug 10, 2016)

1. Has anyone use a microwave for refining. If so for what metals and results ..good,bad,ugly.
2. Has anyone use magnatite in refinging process. If so when and for what purpose.
3. What is the purpose of a electromagtic cell. Ex: stainless steel bowl with d.c. Current I think. 
Please clarify. 
Once thank you for all responses. These answers will in the sort of equipment I purchase for future projects.
Just looking for feedback.


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## jimdoc (Aug 10, 2016)

Instead of wacky questions, why not try studying the forum?


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 10, 2016)

I can't help you on the first two questions, but an electrolytic cell is most often used as a final refining step to produce high purity metals. See Electrochemistry.

Dave


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## galenrog (Aug 10, 2016)

Answer to question 1. No. Refining gold with a microwave is not possible to my knowledge. I do know a few gold miners that have used microwave ovens to smelt very small test batches of simple concentrated gold ores that require no pretreatment. They then have to refine the recovered gold through conventional methods. Most I know that have tried it have returned to more traditional smelting methods.

Answer to question 2. No, magnatite is not used in the recovery or refining of precious metals. It can be a component of some gold ores. Proper fluxing of the smelt will eliminate nearly all iron, making refining easier.

Answer to question 3. See Daves answer above.


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## upcyclist (Aug 10, 2016)

galenrog said:


> Answer to question 2. No, magnatite is not used in the recovery or refining of precious metals. It can be a component of some gold ores. Proper fluxing of the smelt will eliminate nearly all iron, making refining easier.


Answer 2a. Unless you simply mean magnets. We use magnets (not magnetite) for separating steel- and iron-containing materials away from the rest of your material, as they should be treated separately. Note that a neodymium magnet can be too strong for this purpose--you don't want to pull out materials that simply have a bit of nickel in them (often electroplated under the gold, to prevent migration of the gold layer with the base metal).


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## Renstilsken (Aug 10, 2016)

Um I have been studying forum and been reading the book written by hoke. But it takes time. These question I have asked . Are to determine . If I should continue research in such said matters. My time is limited and highly valuable . And not tobe wasted . So please . And I say please if you are not just gonna answer my questions. Don't responded with a sarcastic one. I have limited free time. To deadicate to something I like. And want to use the time wisely . Which is why I am asking for the expertise of this forum to pin point. What I need to know. Not argue . And I am studying the forum. But I have only been on here three days. 
Ok now for the question so when would applying the electrolytic cell be best used for . 
I just dissolve 10 pounds of silver ware. In nitric acid. Two days ago. And capped it.Which process would best recover or reclaim it with . the pure copper feed stock bar using a air pump to agitate it. Or muriatic acid, or this electrolytic process. And lastly how can I pull out all the the remaining silver out of solution . Before dumping.
2, I will do more research on microwave thing. I see a lot of refine done with lately. I will be more exact with question for it aswell as for magnitite. 
3. Last question for the night . Has anyone every try to recover precious metals from blacks. If so what type and reference to process.
Once again thank you all for your answers . They are very informative. And have saved me a ton of time in research. Have a great night..


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## jimdoc (Aug 10, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> Um I have been studying forum and been reading the book written by hoke. But it takes time. These question I have asked . Are to determine . If I should continue research in such said matters. My time is limited and highly valuable . And not tobe wasted . So please . And I say please if you are not just gonna answer my questions. Don't responded with a sarcastic one. I have limited free time. To deadicate to something I like. And want to use the time wisely . Which is why I am asking for the expertise of this forum to pin point. What I need to know. Not argue . And I am studying the forum. But I have only been on here three days.



Excuse me, I didn't realize that your limited free time was highly valuable.
I won't waste any more of it.


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## jason_recliner (Aug 10, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> My time is limited and highly valuable . And not tobe wasted .


Whereas everyone else here has unlimited time and is here to save you from reading?


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## jimdoc (Aug 10, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> I just dissolve 10 pounds of silver ware. In nitric acid. Two days ago. And capped it.Which process would best recover or reclaim it with . the pure copper feed stock bar using a air pump to agitate it. Or muriatic acid, or this electrolytic process. And lastly how can I pull out all the the remaining silver out of solution . Before dumping.



Where do you plan on dumping it? There is a wacky question for ya.


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## butcher (Aug 10, 2016)

Renstilskens, 
Yes, those are wacky questions and comments. Not questions I would expect from a man who claims to be educated. you clearly have no idea what you are doing, it sounds like you have a little bit of you-tube education and are willing to jump into dangerous waters without a clue.
You have been you making comments (innuendo) to be combative and to the point of being against the rules of the forum, not a good way to start here. this forum is for those who are willing to learn, it is a true gold mine of information, and many members are very willing to help you any way they can, before kicking the gift horse in the mouth, a smart man would prosper by seeing how well that horse can work for him, and treat him more kindly. Not doing so the man may be plowing his own field by pulling his own plow tied to his backside.

Discussions of nonsense, just a waste of all of our energy and time, it also derails productive discussions or learning.
Asking questions when you are too lazy to do your own research, or at least to get some education on the subjects you wish to discuss just wastes your time and our time.

Spend some time educating yourself, you have a great resource here unless you decide to blow it by continuing with nonsense.
If you need help learning how to study we can help you with that, by reading through the forum you will find many helpful tools.

Enough bull-ony let us all get back to learning, and helping each other...


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## Renstilsken (Aug 11, 2016)

No I am actually reading electrochemistry. Thanks to frugal. Who saved a lot time .and just simply answer my question. Like a true professional and gentleman, as well as Galenrog , upcycle . Their input was truly valuable. Thank you fellas for contribution in directing me in the right direction as a professional instructor would. No matter how wacky my questions are.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 11, 2016)

Hello butcher. I think you are being way to sensitive. Do you know how to educate Or how to teach someone something new. Are you a teacher or a professor. If are you would. you thier is no such thing as a "wacky" or "dumb" question. Unfortunately I do not have the free time to read everything at once in this fine forum. So these question are to give me the direction I need or to narrow down my source of research.as a professor would to a student.I have taught many in my field of expertise. Which I have been doing for over 25 years. And I have never once talked down to any of apprentices . or treated them poorly. I have been very direct in answering any questions they might have no matter how out of the norm I thought it was.because I knew they are learning.. And I would help them anyway I could 
To accelerate that process..as I have said before I know very little about this field. So no everything I am asking is not nonsense. Nor am I am being passive aggressive nor am I making innuendos, or being confrontational. I simply lack knowledge. Which I have been stating from the beginning. And am just looking for answer for my questions. That is all. Their no hidden agenda here. Now if you chose not to answer my questions that is fine don't. But if you do great. And I truly do appreciate all the help. And I couldn't answer a question they had. I would simply say. I don't understand what you are trying to do please clarify. This is how I teach my colleagues. That is all I am trying to do here. I will take what you have into consideration. And will try to be a little more sensitive to everyone here. But if I don't know or understand something the only way I will get clarity, enlightenment, or understanding it is by asking what you may seem is a wacky question.....


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 11, 2016)

The forum is here as a free alternative to what you are wanting, someone to come in and hold your hand through everything so you get your end result. Which, if you have the capital, I am sure one of the members that do consulting would gladly help you, but, better whip out the checkbook now...

Butcher was not out of bounds at all, and you giving the implication of such is beyond reproach, as is your grammar. If your time is so valuable that patience cannot be achieved, then this is NOT the field for you. You will lose countless amounts of gold because you have the "right here, right now" approach. 

Every single one of your questions i found answers to, simply by going to google and typing goldrefining electrochemistry -or whatever. Let me make it simpler for you


http://bfy.tw/7Ajy

Check that link... Thats the most hand holding i can do without a date and dinner, especially for someone so combatant towards people i hold in very high regard.

And i chose that, because you chose to neglect an answer to jim's earlier question.

This site is the closest thing to a free meal ticket you can get, but, there is still work that you, and only YOU, can do.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 11, 2016)

“No matter how a text is written, one reader will yearn for more details while another will be bored by the tedious explicitness.” These words of truth can be found in the Introduction to J. Harry Howard’s Handbook for the Amateur Lapidary, and they seem so applicable that we must here echo his request that the reader take this into account when tempted to criticise the book. The author has purposely gone into every small detail necessary to instruct the newcomer who knows nothing of chemistry or laboratory technique. From the chemist, who may skip these elementary instructions, we ask patience with the beginner..

I have been studying a great deal. And reading a lot since coming to this site. And once again I am not being combative . Like I said time again if chose not to answer my questions that is fine. No one is twisting your arm to make you answer. So please stop This, already. Just ignore my posts if you don't like posts that's all. Thank you once again for all your input and replies.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 11, 2016)

Thats on like page 3 of Hokes book. Is that all the further you have gotten?


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## butcher (Aug 11, 2016)

I have taught many people in every field I have worked in. Not in a school but in real life from real life, from real life experience.

I do not talk down to people, I try and help them any way I can. If I smell bull crap I say so, I do not sugar coat or pander nonsense.

I also try to give everyone the benefits of doubt, until things are clear.
I also have a thick tough skin, I have been through the ringers of life.

I agree there are no dumb questions, but there are stupid ones. Like a person asking questions about something when the answers are given to them on silver platters clearly spelled out, and the people giving or answering any of those same questions gladly over and over impatiently only to be disrespected for going to the trouble.Just because the person is too lazy or unwilling to spend their own time to learn on their own, or think they are too good to spend their own time.
disrespect is disrespect and leads to good for no one.
If you get my message and stick around on the forum I believe you may find me to be somewhat helpful, and you can possibly learn from me, I know I can learn also from you, that is what we do here, help each other.

I think I have been clear, and surely you are smart enough to understand. enough bull lets get back to study and helping each other.
Learn from the good people here, or go and find some other sandbox to play in. We take this forum seriously, this is a very dangerous business no place for childish games or nothing to be playing around.

I do not or will not ignore posts, it is part of my job here to see the forum runs smoothly.

It is truly my hope we can come to an understanding and become friends, I would like to help you learn as much as you wish to about this science, and hope you take to it heart and study and become one of our respected members. 
I have said the last I am going to on this subject it has derailed the forum enough.


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 11, 2016)

Renstilsken, you got off to a rough start here by discussing alchemy. Even after you were told we don't discuss that here, you asked more questions about a company and a person who are clearly involved in alchemy. As a result of that thread, another member started talking about some related beliefs about the "unknown powers" of precious metals, and when he got upset about being told not to discuss such things, he got beligerant and ultimately got banned.

You've criticized butcher's comments to you because he doesn't teach like you do in your career. You help your students because you felt a calling to teach and it is your job. Unlike your position as a teacher, no one here gets paid. Everyone here, including the moderators, volunteers their time. Please note that the members whose names are green (like butcher) are moderators. Our responsibility is to keep the forum running smoothly, and one of the ways we do that is by discouraging non-productive discussions, like alchemy.

Your profile says your country of origin is the US, but your writing indicates otherwise. That's OK, as this is an international forum with many members for whom English is not their first language. We try to be sympathetic with those members, as we know it is difficult for them to both study what is here and to communicate with the rest of us. Perhaps we would be more understanding of your difficulty with English if we knew a little more about your background.

You've said a couple of times that if members don't want to answer your questions, they should ignore them. Perhaps it's partly because of the language barrier, but those comments have been somewhat rude. I would offer you the same advice. If you don't like an answer you get, the best thing would be to say thank you for taking the time to reply and move on. Continuing to tell people here how they are allowed to respond to you will not gain you any friends.

This forum is like a huge college library that has no librarians. What is worse is that it is like the library got hit by a tornado. The books have been scattered about, and in many cases pages have been ripped from the books. It is up to you to spend the time looking around to find what you're interested in. The rest of us are wandering around in the same library, studying as we go. It's OK to ask a few questions about where you might find information, but if you keep telling us that we need to answer you the way you want to be answered, you'll quickly find no one wants to talk to you, and you'll probably be asked to leave the library. It took me about a year and a half to read everything here. If you don't have the time to do that, you may find you don't like it here.

Many members have gotten off to a rough start here, but have gone on to become valuable members of the forum. It's all up to you. If you want to devote the time to study what's here, you'll find all the answers you seek. If you can't, you might want to ask if someone wants to consult for you, but it will come at a cost.

I wish you luck in your studies.

Dave


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## Renstilsken (Aug 11, 2016)

No it is not bit it is what came to mind after all of you superb responses. And I am from the united States of America. Network , Westchester county.
And feel the same..call it a auto defense mechanism. The miss spelling , is coming from my auto spell check. Real annoying..and haven't brought other since I was asked not too. I started a a whole new thread.I was simply asking a question. But now that I have seen how this forum reacts . I will retract my curiosity. And figure it out. My self.and keep my questions to a minimum. Thank you all for enlightening convocations..


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## jimdoc (Aug 11, 2016)

There is a search bar, it doesn't care what you ask.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 11, 2016)

Lol..man you are too much jimdoc.


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## butcher (Aug 12, 2016)

Renstilsken,
Study and when you run into something you do not understand or need help with a problem anyone one here will be glad to help.
Gaining some education on the subjects will also help you get more from any question, you will be able to ask educated questions.

Respect and no nonsense and you will go a long way here.

The members here you will find are very helpful and the kinds of friend most everyone wants.
I wish to welcome you here. Hopefully, we can put all of this behind us and learn more about precious metal recovery and refining, and work together as friends.

Check out: 
Dealing with waste (very important and the rest of the safety threads.
Hoke's book. I suggest before doing any chemistry do the getting acquainted experiments in her book (they will save you many headaches and give answers to a thousand questions you may have in this field.
The general reaction list.
Guide to the forum (this will take you on and educational road trip).
The many documents provided by members.
Forum search and google search...
Laser Steves web-site
Harold's getting gold pure and shining

You have a true treasure chest at your disposal enjoy the journey.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 12, 2016)

This is very helpful. Thanks for the info..I already started . recovery of that 10pd. Batch of silver last night. That I had sitting in nitric acid solution. After reading that section in hoke's book...I am using pure copper for a stock feed. Where I live at people throw away silver like crazy. Eventually I would like to make my own acids from stratch. I just bought a distillation, and Buckner funnel them set on eBay. Can't wait to get it. Gonna make my own nitric acid...


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## galenrog (Aug 12, 2016)

I have a silly question. The silverware you have dissolved, was it a silver alloy, such as Sterling, or was it silver plated? My stroke twisted brain wants to know.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 12, 2016)

Sterling silver ware..such as forks ,knives ,spoons. It looked expensive..got it at an estate sale. I keep the silver plated low end stuff in a separate garbage can..that is why I asked before if I should just recover it with muriatic acid first .and then redo it with with nitric acid and a copper feed stock ..for a purer outcome. I think I should have done the second.only thinking out loud..


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## Palladium (Aug 12, 2016)

Sometimes the teachers job is to protect the student from himself even though the student might not know or understand why. I do have a question though. Do you have any experience or education in the field of chemistry? The reason i ask is you are talking about making your own nitric acid. Refining is dangerous enough for me and even with my years of experience i know better than to attempt certain things. One of them being cyanide and the other being making or distilling nitric acid. The consequences verses cost for a commercially available product doesn't justify it.


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 12, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> Sterling silver ware..such as forks ,knives ,spoons. It looked expensive..got it at an estate sale.


The forks and spoons will be solid sterling silver. The knives usually have stainless steel blades and the handles are filled with a plaster/resin/cement type material. Break the handles open and remove the filler material and blades before dissolving them.



> ..that is why I asked before if I should just recover it with muriatic acid first .and then redo it with with nitric acid and a copper feed stock ..for a purer outcome.


If you use muriatic to recover the silver from the nitrate solution, you'll create silver chloride. You can not redissolve silver chloride in nitric acid. There are several ways to convert silver chloride to elemental silver. Many people use the lye and Karo syrup method. Lou recommends sulfuric acid and nails, and I know better than to question his expertise. Or you can just cement the silver using copper.

Dave


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## Renstilsken (Aug 12, 2016)

Um they all seemed solid .their were no external handles on any of . it was all shiny . and it had sterling a stamp on it. Well I did build a fume hood in my garage. I have installed them for my job. When we built thier chemical labs for n.y.u. and montifore. We built 40 labs for n.y.u. and 120 labs for montifore hospital. I know as long as my fume hood stays in negative pressure or vacuum I should be good . plus I keep my garage in positive pressure with fans. Told you I have been building me a lab for the last two months.


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## galenrog (Aug 12, 2016)

Thank you for answering the question regarding silverware. The reason I asked is that many people new to recovery and refining, regardless of education and expertise elsewhere, frequently do not know the difference. 

Dave is completely correct on his comment above. Sterling knives, and other bladed pieces, have stainless steel blades and filled handles. This is the case in nearly all sterling tableware.

I have no experience recovering silver from plated items, so I will not comment further on that.

Hope your journey here is fruitful

Time for more coffee


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## Renstilsken (Aug 12, 2016)

But I will not be attempting todo that right now. Because I am not ready too.. And I don't think I know enough yet to try it but eventually I will.. Plus's their is still more stuff I need to add to the lab.still saving up for hot plates and electric klin. Very expensive these items are..so are the nitric acid .


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## upcyclist (Aug 12, 2016)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Renstilsken said:
> 
> 
> > > ..that is why I asked before if I should just recover it with muriatic acid first .and then redo it with with nitric acid and a copper feed stock ..for a purer outcome.
> ...


As an example, I used to precipitate my silver as AgCl, then convert it to silver using sulfuric & nails, but I find that to be a pain. So now, I'm just cementing it on copper. When I need silver for inquartation (see Hoke), I can use the cemented silver. Before I actually sell any as Fine Silver (or use it to make Sterling alloy shot for my jewelry casting), I'll start up a silver cell and purify it that way.

--Eric


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 12, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> But I will not be attempting todo that right now. Because I am not ready too.. And I don't think I know enough yet to try it but eventually I will.. Plus's their is still more stuff I need to add to the lab.still saving up for hot plates and electric klin. Very expensive these items are..so are the nitric acid .




Hot plates arent too bad, go to walmart or your local equivalent, and get a dual hot plate with ceramic burners, 30 bucks (or so) and it will do fine if you have a piece of pyroceram between the burner and reaction vessel. So far mine has lasted 8 months + now, with only one small hiccup, and it fixed itself.

Electric kiln, yes, expensive. But, gsp and Harold both say they are essentially useless for refining. A good torch will serve you well, for incinerating, and melting. And will get to temperature significantly faster.

Nitric acid...oh yes, very expensive. I was paying 75 bucks for 500 mL... Me and another local member just split a 10L order from dudadiesel for $228, which is significantly cheaper than buying it local... Still not as cheap as some members get it, but, i dont need a 55 gallon drum of it....yet


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 12, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> Um they all seemed solid .their were no external handles on any of . it was all shiny . and it had sterling a stamp on it.


There are two different types of knives. The larger ones, often referred to as "place knives", almost always have stainless steel (or, occasionally, silver plated) blades. The handles are fairly thick and rounded in profile, providing a comfortable fit in the hand. These handles feel solid because they are filled with something, as I described above. They're actually made of two pieces of thin sterling sheet that has been stamped into shape. The two halves are soldered together, then filled with the plaster/cement/resin, the blade is inserted, and the filling is allowed to cool/cure/harden. Give one a few good whacks with a hammer, and they will usually split apart at the solder joint. These same "hollow handles" are often used with some serving pieces like salad sets, cake knives, cake splitters, etc.

The other type is usually called a flat handled butter knife. They are shorter, the handles are relatively flat (still stamped with a pattern like the forks and spoons), and they are made for putting butter on bread or a roll, etc. These are usually solid sterling silver. There are also "butter knives" that have hollow handles like the larger place knives described above. Once you've dealt with enough of this stuff, the difference is obvious.



> Well I did build a fume hood in my garage. I have installed them for my job.


No matter how good a fume hood you have, I would never recommend processing in your garage.

One of the things Hoke teaches is that it's always a good practice, when trying new material, to start with a small, test batch. It's a lot easier to figure things out when you're dealing with a few ounces of metal than to start with ten pounds. Start small. Gain some experience and perfect your process. Then you can scale up to larger batches.

Dave


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## Renstilsken (Aug 12, 2016)

But it is also hard for me to get nitric acid b/c . Chemical companies in the us won't sell to non company or residential addresses .. So I have to import it from out of the country. And the wait five weeks for it . While it sits in customs. So a bottle that would normally run me 45 bucks . Cost me 80 bucks. And why not in a garage with fume hood .. That is exhausted out of roof..? Or should it be done just out side period?


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## Renstilsken (Aug 12, 2016)

Oo..yeah I was doing smaller batches of lb. but I felt like I was losing out .. So this is the first time I tried such a big batch.. Think I messed up.. On my way! . Home now to see what it looks like..


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 12, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> But it is also hard for me to get nitric acid b/c . Chemical companies in the us won't sell to non company or residential addresses .. So I have to import it from out of the country. And the wait five weeks for it . While it sits in customs. So a bottle that would normally run me 45 bucks . Cost me 80 bucks. And why not in a garage with fume hood .. That is exhausted out of roof..? Or should it be done just out side period?


Any one in the US can buy nitric. Tell us where you're located and some members might point you in the right direction. Small quantities are dramatically overpriced. It's a lot cheaper if it''s close enough to pick it up yourself. Usually the cheapest is 67% technical grade that they've repackaged into smaller containers. A 55 gallon drum of 67% nitric cost about $5 per gallon but you have to be a business. From this, you can see badly those re-packagers rape you. Whatever, don't buy very pure reagent grade. It's waaay expensive and you don't need it.


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## nickvc (Aug 13, 2016)

The reason we are concerned about using your garage is the fumes will attack everything inside it including your car and tools unless you run your extraction 24/7 with good clean air been allowed in to help evacuate the fumes, if your garage is attached to the house it will also suffer acid damage.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 14, 2016)

Sorry I was away for the weekend I took a look around but didn't see anything .. But for now on I will do it out side just in case .. Thanks for the info .. I will keep an eye out for anything. But my structure is made of wood.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 14, 2016)

And that silver batch is a big bucket of blob..gotta figure that out Monday..see I knew it . They were getting me.. Well I do need a local supplier.. I live in New York State. In westchester, next to New York City. Though I was looking for I couldn't find one . And help in finding a local chemical provider would be great . .


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## Renstilsken (Aug 14, 2016)

These kilns are expensive ..to do the metal melting in.. Does anyone have a used one or extra one they wanna sell. I will pay ..I have pay pal..


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## butcher (Aug 14, 2016)

Wood full of nitric fumes = fire or worse.

Even the acid fumes you do not see, or may not detect, can ruin most any tool in your shop or garage.

Work outside unless you have proper fume control, and safety practices in place. 
These dangers are not limited to only your tools. 
Your health is put in danger with improper safety precautions.
You can easily kill or damage your health and the health of others around you.

This is why we stress anyone doing this should study first, the dangers you do not even know are there, can kill you, or poison your environment. The dangers you are aware of can be minimized with a good education and safe practices.

The safety thread, and dealing with waste is a great place to begin your study's, it will help you to protect yourself and others from many of the dangers, it can also save you money in many different ways. It will also help you to deal with the government authority's when they come knocking on your door wanting to know what dangerous chemicals you have been making and what you are doing with them...

Do not let gold fever, take over your common sense, spend time with educating yourself, before jumping off into dumping acids onto metals and making very dangerous chemical reactions that you do not know what the dangers consist of.

Take this serious it is not anything to be playing around with, inorganic chemistry can be very dangerous business, without being educated.

If you really need a furnace you can build them fairly easily. But for most things a furnace is not what you will need, a torch and melting dishes will do most of what you will need to do.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 15, 2016)

Thank you all for your concern.. ..and after reading all ur advices I have stop my expirements until I am better educated. I have also continued to survey the areas I have worked in for any damage. And will continue todo so. Thanks once again for taking the time to inform me on the proper procedures. On how todo things. I truly do appreciate it. Sid. Just finished hoke's book. But need to read it again. Which is what i am doing now. To get a better understanding. I will keep all informed of my progress . Really well I do have torches. I am a ceritifed welder.. I seen the buetain torch. That should be good enough. But I am a little confused on which flux to get their are so many out their. Premix fluxes verse regular flux. Is borax flux the I should use for the bone dish.?
B/c I still have that silver cement . I can try to melt that and get the hang of it with that. I am setting up a an area on my property. For an out door lab set up and torching area.. It is away from the house . The wife yelled at me.. When I told her what you guys said. No I have been regulated to a small corner . And sectioned off. The area is all stone floor and four foot wall on three sides.. I should have went their from the beginning .


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 15, 2016)

Renstilsken, I'm beginning to like you. 8) 


Renstilsken said:


> Thank you all for your concern.. ..and after reading all ur advices I have stop my expirements until I am better educated. I have also continued to survey the areas I have worked in for any damage. And will continue todo so. Thanks once again for taking the time to inform me on the proper procedures. On how todo things. I truly do appreciate it. Sid.


There are many here that will feel their efforts were worthwhile. Many new folks come here with misinformation they've heard elsewhere, and when we tell them they're wrong, they get upset and leave, either by their choice or by ours. It's especially rewarding when we can help someone take a step back, protect themselves and those around them, and learn a better way.



> Just finished hoke's book. But need to read it again. Which is what i am doing now. To get a better understanding. I will keep all informed of my progress .


I've read it at least a half dozen times, and I learn more every time. Maybe that just means I'm slow on the uptake, but there is just so much to learn. As you read the forum, more and more of what Hoke teaches begins to make sense. 



> Really well I do have torches. I am a ceritifed welder.. I seen the buetain torch. That should be good enough. But I am a little confused on which flux to get their are so many out their. Premix fluxes verse regular flux. Is borax flux the I should use for the bone dish.?
> B/c I still have that silver cement . I can try to melt that and get the hang of it with that.


Butane isn't the hottest gas around, but with oxygen it should do fine. 

I often see confusion about fluxes. For melting, all you need is to coat the inside of your dish with borax. It will give it a smooth coating that will help your metal to flow into a pool. The premixed fluxes you mentioned are usually used when smelting, which is a much different process.



> I am setting up a an area on my property. For an out door lab set up and torching area.. It is away from the house . The wife yelled at me.. When I told her what you guys said. No I have been regulated to a small corner . And sectioned off. The area is all stone floor and four foot wall on three sides.. I should have went their from the beginning .


Behind every great man, is his woman. I'm glad she yelled at you. You will all be better off for listening to her.

Welcome to the forum.

Dave


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## Renstilsken (Aug 17, 2016)

Lol..I guess so.. Ok so I am gonna practice my melting .. And up on the differences between smelting and melting. Until then I will check in on Monday . And tell ya how I am progressing.. Thanks for all your help guys..


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## Renstilsken (Aug 17, 2016)

Here is a question. Do you ever neutralize the muriatic acid before you precipitate gold with baking soda or after you precipitate gold. Or never and why..


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## jason_recliner (Aug 17, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> Here is a question. Do you ever neutralize the muriatic acid before you precipitate gold with baking soda or after you precipitate gold.


Here is an answer. No. And I believe there was a post in just the last 3 days that explains why acid is needed for SMB to create SO2.

The library section of dealing with waste will also tell you how to responsibly handle your waste after precipitating gold. I.e.: not killing every life form around you.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 25, 2016)

Hello fellas how is everything.. ? Ok so now I have a out side set up. And have been processing and refining silver now for the last week.. And I love it.. So shinny. But my question have todo with gold ..do I separate the different color golds . Like rose gold and yellow gold. Or it does t matter. And what bout the diamonds . Like in rings and earrings.. Will the acid damage them..


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## nickvc (Aug 25, 2016)

The accepted way to refine karat scrap is to inquart it with silver, in other words you need to make an alloy up of your scrap gold and silver that is 25% Au and melt it and cornflake it in water, then put the cornflake into your beaker cover well with distilled water and heat and slowly add nitric, a watch glass is a good idea, when reaction slows add a little more nitric do this at high heat and cool when you get no further reaction when you add more nitric, decant and rinse the solids and add rinse to the other nitric acid which you can now cent with copper to recover your silver, it will also carry any PGMs so the silver may need to be put through a cell at some point. The remaining solids cover well with HCl and again heat and slowly add nitric, use a watch glass for this as any fumes can carry loses of gold, only slowly add small increments of nitric and only add more when all reaction stops, if after you last addition of nitric you have no reaction add a little more HCl and if you get a reaction add a little more, when that stops reacting add a further small increment of nitric, no reaction you should have dissolved all your gold, add a little sulphamic and stir into the solution if you get a fizzing add a little more until it stops, cool and filter and precipitate with the chemical of choice.
The colour of the gold or karat does not matter if you inquart which is why we recommend this process.
Hope this helps.


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## 4metals (Aug 25, 2016)

The method Nick posted is for karat gold but not for gold with diamonds. While the acids do not hurt the diamonds, the melting will, so they are processed in AR as they are received. There are multiple threads about chemical diamond removal on the forum if you search.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks nic..that's sounds a little complicated.. I have todo more reading on it..thanks four metals. For the pointed reference .. To the library.. I think that is more of what I need right now..yeah don't wanna damage the diamonds..they are of good quality. Been collecting items like for a while.. I wanna do it right when I do it. 
But on another note .. I though when you preformed the nitric acid process on the silver alloys. It removes all the impurities..I have just been doing this .. Then filtering it , or cleaning it with distilled water then , preceptitating it with a pure copper bar.. Then once it is cemented . I wash it again with distilled water. Then been melting it into one ounce bars.is this silver not pure enough. I thought it was.


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## 4metals (Aug 25, 2016)

In theory the silver should be pure because the copper will only drop mercury and other precious metals beneath it on the electromotive series chart. So if there are none of those metals the copper only drops silver. That is the chemistry of it. But often in refining the mechanics of a process often complicate things. 

So in reality, small pieces of copper that flake off of your scrap copper will contaminate the silver. You can minimize this by using solid slabs of copper and when it gets thin remelt it and use a thicker slab, or you can use fine powdered copper and slowly add just enough to drop the silver so no excess copper remains undissolved.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 25, 2016)

Wow I never thought of that ..thanks four metals..fine copper powered..I am gonna order some of that.. It sounds a lot faster, and less messy to use.. I was using copper bars and five gallon bucket ..with air pump to agitate it. To flake off like you said. Thanks for the tip..I will let you know how it works out


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## butcher (Aug 25, 2016)

Renstilsken,
I just have to say that I think you are making a fine forum member here, and I am glad to see you getting past that rough start.


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## 4metals (Aug 25, 2016)

This is a video posted by a member from India who was using copper powder to drop silver, it is fast and drops pure silver until you over add the copper. An easy way to prevent that is to add copper until testing indicates you are almost done, then stop adding copper and remove your silver which is high purity. Then add copper powder to recover the last of the silver and a little extra copper won't matter, just re-refine that silver with the next batch. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UgWpz7Rhf8


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 25, 2016)

4metals said:


> This is a video posted by a member from India who was using copper powder to drop silver, it is fast and drops pure silver until you over add the copper. An easy way to prevent that is to add copper until testing indicates you are almost done, then stop adding copper and remove your silver which is high purity. Then add copper powder to recover the last of the silver and a little extra copper won't matter, just re-refine that silver with the next batch.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UgWpz7Rhf8




How viable of an option is cemented copper, from a stock pot?


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 25, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> How viable of an option is cemented copper, from a stock pot?


If you've used iron to cement the copper, remember that iron will cement everything below it on the reactivity series. If the only thing in your stock pot solution was copper, it might be OK, but that's not likely. It depends on your feedstock.

Dave


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## 4metals (Aug 25, 2016)

These are the photo's I dug out that he posted of his equipment, pretty simple! Unfortunately I can't remember the OP's name to find the original thread.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 25, 2016)

Why thank you butcher.. Like I said I am hear to learn..but back to chemistry.. Is it worth refining silver plated items..I recently bought bout five pounds of it. And am wonder if it was worth it. Now that I think bout it.what other metals might be in it. Does anyone know. Just wondering. Gonna watch video now that , 4metals put up..thanks again for the video 4 metals


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## Renstilsken (Aug 25, 2016)

Wow.....those Arabs are paid..did you guys see that..they had big money in that tub..couple hundred grand easy..now that is a pay day ..


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## Renstilsken (Aug 25, 2016)

Ok.. So I can use and item above any other item to precipitate whatever is underneath it. On this electromotive chart ..hmm very interesting..


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## 4metals (Aug 25, 2016)

Print this and put it on the wall in your refining room.

View attachment electromotive series.docx


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## butcher (Aug 26, 2016)

electromotive series and the reactivity series of metals are very similar but also a bit different, as well as their use, and they are often confused.

Electromotive series is normally for electrolysis reactions, like batteries, electrochemical reactions...

Reactivity series of metals is what we use when we displace one metals ions from solution with another metal (cementing)...

http://berryberryeasy.com/2010/08/spm-chemistry-form-5-notes-terminology-and-concepts-oxidation-and-reduction-part5-correction/


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## nickvc (Aug 26, 2016)

4metals is right I forgot the stone set material.
My advice for that is to cut the settings off as close as possible and only treat them in the accepted removal process as you frequently get bits that just won't dissolve so do the stone set first and any left over undissolved pieces can be adde to the material to be inquarted.
My process was to first put all the stone set into very hot nitric carefully as some white gold alloys are high silver content, if you get no reaction then simply slowly add HCl to dissolve the gold and base metals and possibly PGMs, if you get a slight reaction with the nitric you can either pour it off into your silver cement pot or again just add HCl but in all cases go for hot from the start, if you use cold acids the build up of the silver chloride soon stops the reaction if you go hot it takes a while longer, be careful doing this and wear good gloves and eye protection and watch the fumes.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 28, 2016)

Hello fellas .. I have a problem.. Ok.. I I had 10 pounds of silver plated metals. Like platters and such.. So I cut them up and put them in my borcilite jug. And filled it with distilled water until it cover metal then poured 300 milliters of nitric acid and heated it up. Then left it over night . (All out side)but whe. I checked it today it still had metal in it . And is a reddish brown.. Like rust color. 
Now should I add More nitric.. Or should I filter and rinse out.. What I have . And redo what is left over in a seprate batch .


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 28, 2016)

Trying to process silver plate by digesting everything is a losing proposition. What happened to trying things on a small scale? What happened to studying more before jumping into new things.

You've created a toxic mess. My advice would be to abandon your effort, treat the whole mess as toxic waste, and find something else to occupy your time.

Dave


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## Renstilsken (Aug 28, 2016)

Ouch...that hurt..I thought I could do it.. Ok.. Back to the drawing board then.. I will start over ..hard lesson learned..


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## Renstilsken (Aug 28, 2016)

I was able to process the silver ware .. I thought I could do the same ..with the silver plated ..


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## butcher (Aug 29, 2016)

Copper or copper alloys are more reactive than silver, As GSP say's it takes 3.4 times as much nitric to dissolve copper than it does silver. 
Copper will cement out any silver in solution plating the silver back onto the copper until both are dissolved. 

Silver can also be plated onto brass a copper alloyed with zinc. zinc is very reactive (higher in the reactivity series. Zinc will displace copper from solution.
Basically, until you dissolve everything into the nitric solution costing you a heck of a lot of money on nitric acid, you will not be able to recover the tiny little bit of silver that basically would not even pay for the nitric acid. FrugalRefiner has given some great advice sometimes the truth does hurt.

On a side note, I have been recovering silver plated on copper with my used copper/ferric chloride solutions hot and concentrated, I can recover the silver as AgCl. Then rejuvenate and reuse the solution, the depleted copper I run through a copper sulfate cell, I can get the silver and copper fairly well although the time and trouble would not be really worth it financially.


I am also doing some experiments with iron nitrate Fe(NO3)3 solution (an etch for silver) which looks somewhat promising.
2Ag + F3(NO3)3 <--> AgNO3 + Fe(NO3)2
(some chloride Ions seem to help).
Hot concentrated the reaction shifts to the right. Cool dilute it shifts back toward the left.
Silver plate is fun to experiment with but it is a good way to waste your time. 

Wet etching / recovery of the silver plate, can be done but it is basically a losing proposition.

we should just forget it (but I am having too much fun experimenting right now).
Unless you can produce a lot of electricity very cheaply, and can make copper anodes, and are in the business of electro-refining copper, silver plate is not going to help your bank account.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 29, 2016)

Ahh..see I had asked before about this.. But no one answered me..I had asked was it worth thing to recover..and since no one said anything.. I thought I could do it.. I did not know their was was copper in the silver plating..ok minor set back.. Lesson well learned. I will not be discharged. I was a fun experience. I have learned a lot from it.time to move on... And frugal..you will not dissuade. I will become a refiner.. Sometimes you have to make a mess to make it right..life is a learning process..and I will take ur hard advice into account.. I will only do small amounts.. At a time until I get it right.. Thanks for the bashing..have a great day..but I am still reading..I think I was just excited and a little ahead of my self..


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## Renstilsken (Aug 29, 2016)

Butcher..thank you the detailed info their.. This is very helpful.. For when I go hunting for silver.. I will no longer buy silver plated items..so I now have in that mix silver and copper cement mixed together..hmmm..with some zinc..ok..hate to just grow it all away..
I do have a question for moderators.. I had bought a silver subscription..but my name hasn't changed.color.. And I did not receive a confirmation on my paypal for it yet ..who do I talk to for it., you have been teaching me a lot.. Wanna give back..


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## jason_recliner (Aug 29, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> And frugal..you will not dissuade. I will become a refiner.. Sometimes you have to make a mess to make it right..life is a learning process..


Ren, I respectfully suggest you give thorough consideration to the reverse of that statement. Sometimes one is able to make it right, despite having made a mess.

I often hear it said: _There are bold pilots and there are old pilots. But there are no old, bold pilots._ It is a maxim equally applicable in this field. When you play around with these chemicals and you get it wrong, you are not guaranteed forgiveness for your sins. They may easily cost you your health or your life. While wishing him well, we still haven't heard any confirmation that Todd is alive.

The less you try to learn from [quite frankly] imminent failure, and the more you read every possible stage and its contingency, the greater your chance of successful recovery and refining.


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## nickvc (Aug 29, 2016)

Ren if you have silver plated brass or copper my advice would be to use it for cementing silver that way you get the little silver back for free, if it's brass use it only for a while and then switch to pure copper or silver plated copper or you could cement copper out again with the zinc in the brass.


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## Renstilsken (Aug 29, 2016)

Well I don't know who Todd is ..but I hope he is alright.. 
I did use extreme caution when I did this, I had it in a outside isolated space.. And gave it a wide birth .. After adding chemicals. And had full protection gear on. I don't think I failed at anything .. My only goal right now is to learn the process.. So today I was brain storming about what butcher said..all day..and took a look at the reactive chart. And you read my mind in answering my next question. Nickvc.. So I can cement the silver with the copper and zinc with , an already dissolve solution of nitric acid and silver.. It would be like peeling a banana.. I would essentially ,Be leaching the silver off of the copper or brass while cementing the dissolved silver. At the same time..that was what I see in my jug this morning. The cemented silver..?gotta check again.now once I did that I would have to filter it and then cement again with the zinc to get the copper out..
Will do some research on this.. Man this is funstuff here..very exciting.almost like a puzzle..thanks for all the insight fellas. And being so kind in helping me out.. I am still studying aswell..observation is the key to success.


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## butcher (Aug 30, 2016)

Renstilsken, 
enjoy yourself and have fun,and be safe. But study, study, and study some more, that is where you are going to get the true gold, education is your treasure map. 

This is why we strongly suggest such things as reading Hoke's book and her getting acquainted experiments, the safety thread and dealing with waste, the general reaction list, and guide to the forum, and when you're ready, start working on simpler materials at first like memory fingers, Karat gold, or sterling silver, this way you gain the basic principle and skills to build upon...

Experimenting is where we learn, and yes we do learn from our mistakes, but it is smarter to learn as much as you can before you start making those mistakes, or else that is all a person will do is just make one mistake after another without getting anywhere productive. If we educate ourselves first we can learn to do it right and continue to educate ourselves... If all we do is make mistakes without studying first, that is all we will learn, is how to make more mistakes getting us nowhere. Where safety is a big issue we may not have a chance to learn much, if we harm ourselves doing things which we do not even know the dangers that are involved in what we are attempting.

I can guarantee you will proceed faster in your goal becoming a refiner if you slow down and study, it will open up a whole world of possibilities, you will make less costly and dangerous mistakes. With these skills you are learning to become an inorganic chemist, you do not do that by just blindly mixing things in a beaker and seeing what happens, or seeing your mistakes and then asking questions of what went wrong and how can I fix it. you should have already studied and known what could possibly go wrong and corrected your thinking, and the experiment to avoid as mush as possible of anything going wrong.

The total experiment is not a mistake and when some minor thing goes wrong you have the education to figure it out and correct the minor problems. You learn from those minor mistakes in the experiment not that the whole experiment itself was a total mistake.

You would study everything you can find out about the reaction, study its dangers and how to avoid them, then when you were ready you would try it out on a small scale, or even do several pre-experiments, then after collecting data you would go back and study more...

Gold fever is dangerous especially in what we do here, it makes people lose their common sense, trouble is with gold most of us get the fever. It happens to most all of us at one point, usually when we first begin. This may be the first thing to overcome. Then we can settle down and actually get someplace learning more about gold and these valuable metals.

Have fun and keep it safe.


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## Renstilsken (Sep 1, 2016)

Butcher I have just read your post.. And you are rightly so.. After thing of what I did it was a little foolish.. And I have have hokes book again. And realized how much I missed. It also took me two days to properly clean out all my beakers.. I was so mad at myself. And such a waste of chemicals. Though I did keep the solution . After I filter it three times.. A lot of red mud.. I went through 100 coffee filter..urghh..it was a mess.. But I do have 2000 liters of solution(black green in color.) b/c i did all out side. And I have been studying every day since then. So I know I have some copper and silver in their. So it may not be a total lost.. Have to wait and see. 
Ok after reading reading hokes book again ., I am a little confused about the whole silver chloride , and silver cement. Is not the chloride . The silver cement.


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## Renstilsken (Sep 1, 2016)

In a solution that have both copper and brass in can I use bismuth to drop or precipitate silver with out dropping or precipitating the other two metals in solution.


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## goldsilverpro (Sep 1, 2016)

Brass is usually just a copper/zinc alloy, although there are variations. Since Bismuth is right above copper on the electromotive series, you will probably drop it along with silver. You won't drop the zinc. Why would you not use copper to drop the silver? It won't drop the copper or the zinc. Only the silver. Also, the price of bismuth is a little higher than copper.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 1, 2016)

2000 liters?

528 gallons?

I thought I had alot of waste to treat.. Suddenly, my 8 five gallon buckets doesn't seem so bad..


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## butcher (Sep 1, 2016)

I am a little confused about the whole silver chloride , and silver cement. Is not the chloride . The silver cement.

I am not sure what your confusion is (you need to explain better what you are asking, giving us more detail on specifics).

Assume we dissolve silver in nitric acid:
Silver (Ag) is oxidized by the nitric acid (HNO3) to silver ions (Ag+) dissolved in solution, the metallic elemental silver atoms gave up electrons to the nitric acid (Oxidation mean to give up electrons). The nitric acid (HNO3) is reduced to nitrate ions NO3-, the nitric acid gained electrons and is reduced (reduction means to gain electrons) to form the nitrate ions and water. The silver nitrate (AgNO3) is soluble in water. if this was pure silver the solution would be as clear as water, if this was sterling silver the copper nitrate in the solution would color the solution blue (green in free nitric)...
3Ag(s) + 4HNO3(aq) --> AgNO3(aq) + NO(g) + H2O(l)

Now if we cemented the silver from the solution using copper, the copper would displace the silver from solution. the copper is oxidized to copper ions in solution, the silver is reduced back to metallic silver (as a gray powder). Copper metal gives up its electrons to become ions, silver ions gain electrons to become silver atoms with all of its electrons in its orbital shells.
The clear solution would turn blue as the gray metallic silver powder was reduced from solution and copper ions colored it.(Some silver metal would stick to the copper buss bar and could be brushed off).
2AgNO3 + Cu --> 2Ag + Cu(no3)2
The result is silver metal powders that can be washed of any copper and dried and melted to shiny silver metal.
which would need to be further refined in a silver cell...

Now let's say we had a clear solution of silver nitrate, and now we add table salt NaCl or HCl acid. The clear solution would turn milky (this is also a good test for silver in solution), we then see the reaction which would develop, clumping of the milky salts and develop fluffy clumps of silver chloride salt that take a while to settle in the clear sodium nitrate solution (if no copper is involved). After the silver chloride settled we would have a clear solution of sodium nitrate (that could be reused for something else like making nitric acid)...
AgNO3 + NaCl --> AgCl + NaNO3
We cannot directly melt the washed silver chloride salts (silver chloride is volatile and most of it would go up in a white smoke if we tried). We would need to convert the silver salt back to into silver metal powders before melting (there are several ways we do this like H2SO4 and iron, HCl and aluminum, NaOH and corn sugar Karo syrup, or a fusion with sodium carbonate...).

I have bismuth metal but would not use it to cement copper. Besides once you have silver and copper in solution why in the world would you want to cement both of them together, why not use copper to replace the silver from solution---then use iron metal to get the copper...

Keep studying, the more you study the more all of this begins to make much more sense, and the clearer you will see all of this. Right now, you are asking questions, that will be more simple to understand as you study more. Do the experiments in Hoke's book to see it for yourself, it will make much more sense to you that reading answers to the questions, in a few hundred posts. Hoke also teaches you the chemistry without going into the chemistry details, once you understand Hoke's book and have done the experiments in her book, then you can dig deeper into the chemistry side of the formulas and reactions, it to understand it much more deeply.
Study, is your map to the lost silver mine and to that pot of gold you seek...


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## Renstilsken (Sep 1, 2016)

Thanks for the clarification..butcher...I was suppose to say 2000 mil liters not 2000 liters .. Auto spell check did that sorry. Ok now on that electromotive series chart I found in forum. It said bust hums is only two steps higher than silver and below copper. That is why I had ask. That questio. But I can use copper bar to drop silver .. great. Now the. Silver chloride , is not silver nitrate..but has tobe converted back to silver cement. Will review method for this in hokes book.. 
So I keep hearing about this silver cell is the cement not clean enough to melt and sell as is.. Or do I need to purify it more. With this cell..gotta get back to work. Will read more tonight and re-read what you said butcher . Study on it thanks for the lesson..


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## upcyclist (Sep 1, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> Ok now on that electromotive series chart I found in forum. It said bust hums is only two steps higher than silver and below copper. That is why I had ask. That questio.


When you're talking about cementing, you want to use a Reactivity Table of Metals, not an Electromotive Series. 



Renstilsken said:


> So I keep hearing about this silver cell is the cement not clean enough to melt and sell as is.. Or do I need to purify it more. With this cell..gotta get back to work.


There is info on silver cells here in the forum. If your technique is solid, you can produce cement silver that is pure enough to sell. Since you almost definitely won't have that solid technique down right away, count on it not being .999 pure. Similarly, if you go the silver chloride route, better technique gives better results.

Then again, "pure enough to sell" really depends on the buyer. But in general, a cell gets you a better quality output than just cementing.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Sep 1, 2016)

Here is a good thread on a silver cell.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17233&hilit=silver+cell+.jpg


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## 4metals (Sep 2, 2016)

Renstilsken,

I have just read over this entire thread and my conclusion is that, while this thread may help you with your questions, it does little to help anyone searching for information locate anything valuable contained in this thread. The purpose of this forum is to help members with refining and provide a searchable catalog of threads about specific topics. 

Unfortunately "Renstilsken's wacky questions" does little to aid other members to search for answers to their questions. When members have a hard time searching, or find their time too valuable to waste searching, they often ask questions which have been answered many times. This is something we are trying to prevent. 

So I request that you stop posting new questions on this thread and if you have a new question, search for an existing thread and add to it or start a new thread with a subject title indicative of the topic. Then in the future any member searching for information will have a better chance of answering their own question from an existing thread.


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## goldenhaha (Sep 2, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> 2000 liters?
> 
> 528 gallons?
> 
> I thought I had alot of waste to treat.. Suddenly, my 8 five gallon buckets doesn't seem so bad..



Was wondering when someone would catch this.

Just by reading this thread and having a understanding of the process to recover precious metals. This person has no idea as to what is going on.

The OP can say that they only have 2000ml of waste but the truth is it is closer to 2000 liters.


Someone try to put 10 pounds of silver plated copper, brass, or whatever that is silver plated in a beaker cover with water and add 200ml of nitric acid.


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## goldenhaha (Sep 2, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> Butcher..thank you the detailed info their.. This is very helpful.. For when I go hunting for silver.. I will no longer buy silver plated items..so I now have in that mix silver and copper cement mixed together..hmmm..with some zinc..ok..hate to just grow it all away..
> I do have a question for moderators.. I had bought a silver subscription..but my name hasn't changed.color.. And I did not receive a confirmation on my paypal for it yet ..who do I talk to for it., you have been teaching me a lot.. Wanna give back..



You are worried about your name not changing to a different color because you made a donation.

Noxx is a busy young man. You will get conformation when he gets on line. If I Was Noxx I would refund your donation and ban you. 

You are a accident waiting to happen. Members have told you time and time to do a search on the silver cell. YOU ARE A HAZARD TO THIS FORUM..........


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## Renstilsken (Sep 16, 2016)

Hello everyone.. Haven't been on in a while been studying ...just wanted to say hi.. And thank goodness you are not noxx.. I was just trying to confirm if nox got payment or not. That was all. And since following everyone's advice on here I have been gotten a lot better .. And have developed better safety habits, and been practicing refining with small amounts ., and have been following hokes book..very informative.. And have become highly successful.. Only in silver not tried anything else yet..not ready too. Just wanted to to say thanks for All the help . 4metals,up cyclist,butcher,gold silver pro,nickvc, and Jason the refiner..and all others who have help me thus far..I have been following the other threads on here with better efficiency now.. And have been finding my answers. Without having to ask..I am beganing to crawl..so to speak..to will keep in touch.. And in becoming a member was my of giving back to help keep this site going .. So others like my self. Have a place of ongoing learning, and understanding that is all..goldenhaha...so please be nice..and reframe from talking to me like that.. Thanks to This forum I am not a accident waiting to happen...anymore.


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## anachronism (Sep 16, 2016)

Good you've grasped and accepted the basics of what people have been trying to tell you and that's great. Now your journey begins my friend.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 16, 2016)

Lol, Jason the recliner-refiner
:lol:


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## goldenhaha (Sep 16, 2016)

Renstilsken said:


> goldenhaha...so please be nice..and reframe from talking to me like that.. Thanks to This forum I am not a accident waiting to happen...anymore.



Its good to hear that you are doing some reading and studying the forum. I would say that I am sorry for being rude ,blunt or straight to the point. 

I am not sorry for being that way. That is the only way that some people understand. 

Take your time hit that search button and do read the forum. Don't chase after the precious metals keep your eye on the prize and let it come to you. There is a lot of knowledge on this forum but you have to read and study to become efficient at what you are trying to accomplish.

The prize will come to you if you have the patience. If you would be so kind as to search for a member by the name of malfeces and read his post. Maybe someone will post a link to his post in this thread. 
Glad your not a accident waiting to happen anymore. Let it come to you its all right here on the forum.


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## Renstilsken (Sep 17, 2016)

Ooo..man kadriver just posted a great video on silver refining..must have watched a dozen times now really great video..love this place.. Catch you guys later video in tutorials..


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## Renstilsken (Nov 7, 2016)

Greeting all .. hope all is well.. quick note .. I have been doing quite well . I have been processing silver for a month or two now and all is working great thanks to the help of you guys.. I have been processing gold aswell.. again thanks to this forum.. now I have a question ..more of a delema.. 
after processing some gold .. I gold about one Troy ounce of silver chloride left over.. and I tried to process it back into silver.. I added lye and it reacted bubbled and heated up and I left it out side to finish reaction .. after it was done.. I came back and it had cooled down. And it was silver oxide. I then added sugar .. to precipitate silver. But nothing happened. The sugar just clumped up and drop to bottom of jar.. one what did I do wrong.. and two is it lost?
I had thought I had followed the process right where did I go wrong .. and can I fix it.. thanks once again for all ur help fellas .. and happy holidays..


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## Renstilsken (Nov 7, 2016)

Ooo..baby.. I figured it out ..I heated it up on my hot plate.. and then started mixing it.. once it got hot again.. it started the chemical reaction.. and then I started adding sugar again. And it is precipitating silver ..yay.. u guys are great thanks for the help.. have a great day..


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## upcyclist (Nov 8, 2016)

I'm glad you figured it out!


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## Renstilsken (Nov 18, 2016)

Hey fellas happy holidays..
Ok I have a question I made a batch of Aquila regalia.. to break down 90 grams of 14 karat gold most of it went well.. but I seem to have about 7 grams of metal left Thant won't dissolve.. I even took it out of acid and washed it . And roasted it. And retry to dissolve it in how acid ,but metal just turned black..and won't dissolve . So what kind of metal is it . And is it worth reclaiming.. thanks for any and all responses.


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## g_axelsson (Nov 18, 2016)

That's an easy one, you got a gold alloy with a lot of silver. You need to inquart it, look up inquarting.

Göran


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## Renstilsken (Nov 19, 2016)

Ok..I will look it up now.. thanks G.. happy thanks giving all.


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## upcyclist (Nov 19, 2016)

Might I suggest you post future questions in their own threads? That way other readers will know what is being discussed from the subject line.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## anachronism (Nov 20, 2016)

Aquila Regalia should be Aqua Regia too.


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## g_axelsson (Nov 20, 2016)

anachronism said:


> Aquila Regalia should be Aqua Regia too.


Are you sure? Aquila Regalia = Eagles Jewellery... maybe it was what he meant?  

Göran


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## anachronism (Nov 20, 2016)

g_axelsson said:


> anachronism said:
> 
> 
> > Aquila Regalia should be Aqua Regia too.
> ...



Nah


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## 4metals (Nov 21, 2016)

Rumplestiltskin,



> Might I suggest you post future questions in their own threads? That way other readers will know what is being discussed from the subject line.



I have asked you this same question in the past and you have chosen to ignore it. This is a public forum and while you may think otherwise, we are not here to answer your questions in a way that it is not possible to search for results. As Upcyclist suggested you should ask questions in separate threads so they can be found using our search function. The purpose of this forum is to provide a reference source that is constantly evolving and updated with solutions and methodology being accessible by searching key words. 

The "Renstilskens wacky questions" thread does not meet this criterion. If you cannot find it in your skill set to write posts and keep within the subject matter then I feel your welcome here on the GRF will be soon be running out. 

I am locking this thread and fully expect you can post any future questions properly in a way that future members can benefit from the discussion. There is no other option.


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