# Ebay Item #111936548261



## Rmwatson78 (Mar 21, 2016)

Can some of the more experienced refiners tell me if they think this item is legit?


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## silversaddle1 (Mar 21, 2016)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...........no.

Every pin was numbered...WTH?


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## Geo (Mar 21, 2016)

Yes, it was.


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## Rmwatson78 (Mar 21, 2016)

Well the guy accepted my offer of 2,000 but I'm wondering about his comment that you would get atleast 6 or 7 ounces after refining.


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## jimdoc (Mar 21, 2016)

Rmwatson78 said:


> Well the guy accepted my offer of 2,000 but I'm wondering about his comment that you would get atleast 6 or 7 ounces after refining.




A little late then to be asking your question?


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## Rmwatson78 (Mar 22, 2016)

I don't feel like it is because even if I only got three ounces it would pay for my time and resources. I just wonder if anyone has processed this sort of material before and if so maybe they could share their thoughts. It seems like there are a few presumptuous grumpy fellows on this forum but hopefully someone at some point will take me seriously.


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## macfixer01 (Mar 22, 2016)

Rmwatson78 said:


> Well the guy accepted my offer of 2,000 but I'm wondering about his comment that you would get atleast 6 or 7 ounces after refining.




I'm guessing you're new to Ebay? People say a lot of things when they're trying to sell you something. Even if we decide to believe his claim that he was told (by somebody?) that it was worth $3500 three years ago, look at the difference in gold spot price between then and now? That would have been only around 2 ounces of gold back then. That 2 ounces would be worth closer to $2500 now. I saw that auction and was impressed how huge it looked in the photos until I read the dimensions. They're wire wrap boards with Augat type pins about .75 inch long I'm guessing by his comparison to a dime. Many of the boards probably never had chips since they have no wiring on them. In the only closeup there are no grooves or other evidence on the pins that there ever was wiring on them. He only showed the top side of a board because it had the 1977 date, so I have to assume none of the other boards contain any chips either? The chips could have been worth much more than the pins depending upon what they were (as collectibles), or how they were constructed (with gold caps and/or side braze) from a scrap standpoint. But there are also the gold pins of the edge connectors and the backplane to consider. My gut feeling is you won't lose money on the recovery, but you probably aren't going to make the killing he implied.

Macfixer01


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 22, 2016)

Rmwatson78 said:


> Well the guy accepted my offer of 2,000 but I'm wondering about his comment that you would get atleast 6 or 7 ounces after refining.



$2,000. Ummm Ok. Everyone has to learn their lesson. I feel this is the part of auction that hooked you in.* "boards and gold was poured and pins made by "
*

You unfortunatly will not recover anywhere near to what you think you will from these wire wrap boards. Good luck with them though.


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## Anonymous (Mar 22, 2016)

Well the guy did state on his auction that "your yield WILL be at least 6 to 7 ounces maybe more" so you do possibly have some recourse but as the other lads have said, it's a little late in the day to be asking this question. 

Make sure you nail your recovery process before starting this. I note you're having issues with some of your previous projects so do not mix this in, and I would take advice before starting it. One thing I would look hard at though, which others haven't made mention of yet is how those pins are connected to the board because that may be where you find a lot of the purported gold. I'm actually going to take a different tack to the other posters here and say it's possible that his yield figures *may* be correct. 

Jon


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## justinhcase (Mar 22, 2016)

It may be a good idea to cover your legal bases in case the description proves inaccurate.
I would send a representative portion to a well thought of refinery so as to have an independent opinion.
This will help you make a case for a refund if the return's do not let you break even.
I love eBay the same legal process as the small claims court with none of the hassle.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 22, 2016)

All the following statements are either lies or total BS

(1) It has the highest content of gold ever put in any conducting component. Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie
(2) Once refined, your return levels from these pins will be at least 6 to 7 ounces maybe more, of gold return total. Lie - more like 1/2 oz total is my guess
(3) each pin is numbered which indicates that the pins are gold and had to be accounted for which is rare. Total BS
(4) When i first got it I did my research I was told it was worth around $3500 and this was 3 years ago as it sits right now before meltdown. BS
(5) So, I have recently called the company who made the rack and was told its rare and is very valuable. BS
(6) I was told that if I have anything that was made back then WOW It's rare because we have not done business with Garry Company in 40 years. ???
(7) He then indicated to me that this is definitely one piece worth it's weight in gold because in 1977 they used the purist gold for conductors back then. They used the same purity gold when I started in 1966 as they use today
(8) it has the highest amount ever. Total 100% BS
(9) gold was poured and pins made by Gerry Manufacturing EPD-60-020-15, they poured the gold. BS or ignorance - Gold isn't poured

FAT pins are worth less per pound than skinny pins

My guess on value could be off, since I can't remember running any wire-wrap boards separately. I usually cut them up on a band-saw into about 4" squares and tumbled them with other stuff in cyanide. I know the wire-wrap pins are never as good as they look and the gold is considerably thinner than on connector pins.


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## Palladium (Mar 22, 2016)

Step #1 Pay for auction
#2 Receive item
#3 Notify seller ( Item not as described )
#4 Return item and receive refund!

If it's as good as he says he should have no problem selling it again!


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## resabed01 (Mar 22, 2016)

I'm with GSP on this one. Lots of red flags jumped up when I read the description. The seller made so many assumptions, false claims and pure BS. The guy obviously doesn't know the gold content but yet he will happily TELL YOU how much gold is in there. If those pins were karat you did well but sadly they are only plated so my guess would be 5g to 10g after processing.
Palladium has the right idea, as soon as it arrives open a case of not as described and send it back for a full refund.


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## FrugalRefiner (Mar 22, 2016)

While I'm sympathetic that our new member has overspent on this item, I'm not so sure I agree that it is "not as described". I've been on both sides of FeePay, as both buyer and seller, and I wouldn't be very happy if my buyer on this lot sent it back.

I agree there is a lot of hyperbole, but what is it that's not as described? They're boards with gold plated pins. There will probably be 1,500 pins per board. The boards will probably be about 7" x 7", and the bigger one will be 16.5" x 8.5". He says he was told it was worth $3,500 three years ago. He was told it's rare and valuable. It was indicated to him it's worth its weight in gold. 

Unless you want to disagree with the yield of 6 to 7 ounces, you'll have a tough time proving it's not as described. To prove the yield, you'll at least have to test a sample, and once you do, you've "damaged" the item and can't return it in the same condition in which it was received.

It's not the seller's fault the buyer overpaid, any more than the people who buy melted pins. If you're going to start dropping a couple grand at a time on precious metals, you'd better know what you're doing or you're going to take a beating.

Dave


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## GOLDbuyerCA (Mar 22, 2016)

That would be in the vintage of the boards them self. My last trip to Puyallup electronics/ Radio , Swap Meet South of Seattle, i picked up boards similar to these, they were of Amp make, wire wrap pin boards, these boards were
common then 1975 / 77 / 80 wire wrap prototyping boards, mostly used by the ones, or two at most for a circuit card / s, . the plating imo, is 30 micro inches. AU. and has a tops value of 2 cents a pin. that would be 30 dollars just for the board pins, and some gold plating, on the board substrate itself, The numbering is of pin location, to aid wiring, "NOt to keep count of each pin as a value " cost " " wishful thinking here. it helps wire the board, a template , you have seen s100 boards. at Puyallup, the S100 Pin board, sell for about 3 t0 5 dollars, " i bought a box full, 15 boards, for 20 dollars, but i was lucky, on Ebay. the pins sell for 50 a thousand, clean pulled and ready to use. Myself, i value the board each at 50 dollars tops, " i would look for this type of item for 100 to 125 dollars, Now if your into Vintage, well then the boards, might be 100 each, " i have some i will sell you, if you feel left out " Gold recovery, Not worth taking apart something, that is useful to a builder, gold recoverable by cyanide strip? i would say, from experience, " yes i have stripped these " lots of work, about 2 grams tops, average 1.5 grams a board, 900 to 1,100 USD for the entire board LOT . GSP is quite rite on this. Cheers all Thomas in Vancouver.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 22, 2016)

I agree Dave, we all want to buy cheap and sell high. Lets just hypothetically say that there is (we know there is not) 6-7 ounces of gold there. How would one justify paying just 2k for it? Good luck? Good deal? Find of the lifetime? 

Once again, if we want to buy low and sell high unless we do not know exactly what we are doing, we will not achieve that goal.
There is no charity on ebay.


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## FrugalRefiner (Mar 22, 2016)

It all depends on which side of the deal you're on. We've had members who listed items on FeePay and sold them for well over the gold value, but we don't criticize them. In fact, we tell people all the time to list items on eBay because someone will pay more for them than the value of the gold.

It's like watching a wildlife documentary about a cheetah hunting antelope. If it's about the antelope, we want to see it escape. If it's about cheetahs, we're hoping it gets its antelope so it can feed its cubs. :| 

Some days you get the bear. Some days the bear gets you.

Dave


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 22, 2016)

Moral of the story?

Watson, nobody here had any intention of coming across as presumptuous. The only intention was to get you to slow down a bit and avoid mistakes. All here want to see folks succeed and do well more than anything. Hell, I think they may even think that about me!

Grumpy? That can be debated! Especially if before coffee or after a days work. :mrgreen:


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## Palladium (Mar 22, 2016)

He knows good and well he's looking to take advantage of someone so with that in mind I wouldn't feel the least bit sad flipping the tables on him. He's purposely trying to mislead people in the hope's of proffiting from their loss. If he got scammed I would consider it justice. You can say what you want but that ad is misleading 10 ways to Sunday. It's like selling a lemon car to me. If he wasn't trying to mislead he wouldn't have went to that much trouble and the flipside to that argument is he either misleading or just plain stupid or a straight out liar.


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## Rmwatson78 (Mar 23, 2016)

You guy are all mostly right, and i do have a lot to learn. I am a fast learner for the most part, but I think I have bitten off more than I can chew with all this. I am fortunate to have had enough success in my other businesses to bankroll this hobby, but adding up what I have spent on chemicals, glassware and lab equipment, smelting furnaces and safety equipment, not to mention materials to process,I have spent over 13,000 dollars with nothing to show for it but some tough lessons in failure that I'm generally not used to. I have been studiously reading Hoke's book, and am working on a homemade vent hood so perhaps I will give everything else a rest, but no guarantees, lol. :lol: :lol:


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## nickvc (Mar 23, 2016)

Rmwatson78 said:


> You guy are all mostly right, and i do have a lot to learn. I am a fast learner for the most part, but I think I have bitten off more than I can chew with all this. I am fortunate to have had enough success in my other businesses to bankroll this hobby, but adding up what I have spent on chemicals, glassware and lab equipment, smelting furnaces and safety equipment, not to mention materials to process,I have spent over 13,000 dollars with nothing to show for it but some tough lessons in failure that I'm generally not used to. I have been studiously reading Hoke's book, and am working on a homemade vent hood so perhaps I will give everything else a rest, but no guarantees, lol. :lol: :lol:




Now this I like to hear, recovery and refining is not simple until you know what your doing when in general it's easy, complications arise but your armed with the knowledge of how to overcome them.
All the gold you have dissolve is safe... That's the first thing to remember unless you throw it out.
Now you know you have gold and hopefully where it is, the first thing you should do is stop processing and precipitate or cement all your values, with a little study you will know what to do with them to recover the values and will soon be holding your first home refined bar.
As I have said many times recovery and refining is a huge subject, well in my opinion two, and no one knows it all, there's always something new to learn so slow down and start to enjoy it as well as making some money, it's a hard slog at times but armed with the right equipment, chemicals and knowledge you should so fine.


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## Anonymous (Mar 23, 2016)

I agree with Nick.

I would also say that investing in the equipment is a statement of intent to do it properly and for that I applaud you. Hoke provides a great foundation for what we do but you will need to go a lot further than her words when you're recovering and refining from e-waste. She didn't have this product to deal with, and it has all kinds of other considerations that need to be taken into account. There are also many chemical advances and process specifics that you will need to incorporate, and the forum provides a great deal of the information that you need in addition to her book.

So do put it all into its relevant context as you move forwards.


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## 72chevel (Mar 23, 2016)

Rmwatson78 Are you in Minnesota?

Here is my exchange with this clown: I asked if I could pick this item up and what the weight of one board was.

HI ARE YOU SERIOUSIY INTERESTED IN THIS RARE GOLD PIN RACK ? I HAVE ADDED FREE SHIPPING WHY DO YOU WANT TO COME TO MY HOME??

So I responded with:

Very unprofessional! I wanted to know the weight of one board!!!! That is how it works in Gold Scrap Recovery you need to know the Weight! You don't have some magical unicorn here I see this kind of stuff everyday!!!

He then responded with:

OMG ...WHAT DID I DID WRONG PLEASE DON'T BE SO MEAN WOW !!!! Your not going to offer me what I am willing to take any way you are looking to


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## Palladium (Mar 23, 2016)

Wow! 13 grand! Have you thought about karat or gold filled? I'm curious as to why you chose electronic scrap and ebay?


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## Palladium (Mar 23, 2016)

I read some of your other post and see you have tried gold filled. Take your time and learn one process at a time. Karat is easy to learn first and will give you some experience so then you can move on to gf and electronics. Gold filled is a real money maker when done right.


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## Rmwatson78 (Mar 23, 2016)

72chevel said:


> Rmwatson78 Are you in Minnesota?
> 
> Here is my exchange with this clown: I asked if I could pick this item up and what the weight of one board was.
> 
> ...



I am in Tucson, Arizona.


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## Rmwatson78 (Mar 23, 2016)

Palladium said:


> Wow! 13 grand! Have you thought about karat or gold filled? I'm curious as to why you chose electronic scrap and ebay?



Most gold filled I have ever processed were from lots off eBay.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 23, 2016)

If I would be in your shoes I would definitely try to pull pins out of 1 board and make few auctions for pins say 1 oz of pins at a time. You may easily get more that way and save on recovery costs. Ebay is full of people who overpay for whatever is there, not just gold recovery related stuff. 
Who knows, some people may have a use of this kind of material for some other purposes perhaps art or something else.

You may find a lot of gold filled locally, try cash for gold type businesses, local swap meets, garage sales, local advertisement papers or sites. Guaranteed cheaper than ebay and give you opportunity to have item inspected before you actually pay for it.


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## rrantique (Mar 28, 2016)

I just did some pins like these from a late 70's PM2000 controller and after several different test it's safe to say that each pin had around 14mg.
You may want to pull a few and test them. I just used a side cutter to open up the gold to expose the base metal. I then used nitric acid to dissolve the base metals the gold was plated on. The ones I did where plated on copper. I collect the foils and lay them out for a few days to dry then weighed them one at a time.
I did strip some in a cell but that didn't work so good keep kicking the battery chargers out and took about 5hrs to get most of the gold off just a hand full. 
That batch ended up with a 7.5 gram gold nugget


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## necromancer (Mar 28, 2016)

let's do the simple math

seller says 6 to 7 oz of gold contained in the whole rack
it was worth $3500 dollars 3 years ago

3 years ago the price of gold per oz was $1600 plus or minus a few bucks pending on the exact day in march 2013
$1600 X 6oz = $9600 (RED FLAG sellers math does not work out)

now in march of 1977 gold was $145 oz
$145 X 6oz = $870

with the company name & part numbers you could have tracked down the specs for the boards / pins /fingers & slot contacts
did some simple math, figured out the total amount of gold, sent a best offer.

my guess 1 & 1/4 ounces tops. of pure gold

please keep us updated on this.

historical gold prices "http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/yearly_graphs.plx"


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## macfixer01 (Mar 28, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> Moral of the story?
> 
> Watson, nobody here had any intention of coming across as presumptuous. The only intention was to get you to slow down a bit and avoid mistakes. All here want to see folks succeed and do well more than anything. Hell, I think they may even think that about me!
> 
> Grumpy? That can be debated! Especially if before coffee or after a days work. :mrgreen:




I can see what his conflict is. I'm sure Watson would have preferred to ask for opinions 'before' buying that scrap. He was probably reluctant though, since if he brought it to everyone's attention it could be bought out from under him by somebody here. You have to realize though that if you saw some great looking scrap on Ebay, the chances are probably 90% that anyone here who would be interested in bidding on it has already seen it?


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 28, 2016)

I do agree. Although I hope I wasn't part of that conflict.  

I didn't spend the money Watson did coming in to this but I did spend enough to learn my lesson! The money I did spend on "scrap cell phones for GOLD RECOVERY" will never be recovered.

Although, after all the studying and testing so far, the only things I will buy from eBay are items I am looking for that aren't listed for gold recovery. 

Example: Saturday I won an auction for a lot of way outdated data jacks. The $17 USD I spent will yield about 2 grams of gold. I only know this because I've tested the same material.

It's probably a lesson that most everybody that comes here learns the hard way. Don't buy from eBay if it is listed as scrap unless you know exactly what you will get from it. The good ones you learn to be patient and search for. The half dozen or so purchases I've made since those cell phones are the ones that I know I will at least double my money on.


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## ettran (Mar 28, 2016)

Palladium said:


> Step #1 Pay for auction
> #2 Receive item
> #3 Notify seller ( Item not as described )
> #4 Return item and receive refund!
> ...


 I second that.


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## macfixer01 (Mar 28, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> I do agree. Although I hope I wasn't part of that conflict.
> 
> I didn't spend the money Watson did coming in to this but I did spend enough to learn my lesson! The money I did spend on "scrap cell phones for GOLD RECOVERY" will never be recovered.
> 
> ...





No UncleBenBen, I wasn't saying anybody here had anything to do with it. He had already agreed to a buying price before he came here to see how he'd done. I was just saying that I can see why someone might be reluctant to ask ahead of time, since it would be calling unwanted attention to the auction they were interested in. Yeah deals are getting harder and harder to find on EBay. I rarely find electronic scrap worth buying anymore, and seem to be picking up more jewelry and gold coins. In the last week I managed to get a 22k ring for almost 20% under spot with free shipping. I also got another 9k Albert style gold pocket watch chain which I have a small collection of. This one is 53 Grams, every link hallmarked 375 as they often are, free shipping, and paid just a few dollars over spot price after figuring in the EBay Bucks and Ebates rebates. Those chains normally sell at a pretty good premium over spot price on EBay. I have no plans to process them, just more of an investment for now.

Macfixer01


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## upcyclist (Mar 29, 2016)

macfixer01 said:


> UncleBenBen said:
> 
> 
> > It's probably a lesson that most everybody that comes here learns the hard way. Don't buy from eBay if it is listed as scrap unless you know exactly what you will get from it. The good ones you learn to be patient and search for. The half dozen or so purchases I've made since those cell phones are the ones that I know I will at least double my money on.
> ...


I think it's actually the same argument--I understand that reticence to reveal his ebay find, but the truth is he paid a high price. None of the experienced buyers here would have given him any competition (as he now unfortunately knows). And the same applies in an auction situation--most buyers here would back out at a certain point, assuming the bidding even started below that point. His competition is eBay, not the people here.

I like BenBen's & MacFixer's approach--if it's advertising that it's for e-scrapping & gold recovery, just stay away from it.

Personally, the only e-scrap I mess with is that which I come across for free--then I know my naiveté won't result in me overpaying


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 29, 2016)

upcyclist said:


> I like BenBen's & MacFixer's approach-



Haha! I've been wondering how long it would take for someone to call me that!

BenBen is a bit of pet/nickname family and friends have called me since I was 6 or 7 years old. I had a younger cousin that started using it when she couldn't quite say Benjamin and it just kind of stuck.

That's awesome, thanks for the grin upcyclist!


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## Rmwatson78 (Mar 29, 2016)

I sent the seller the following message:

"After speaking to some professionals on the gold refining forums online it has come to my attention that your description of your item may not be completely truthful and if you are willing to guarantee at least 5 ounces of gold are there to be refined, which is lower than your claim of at least 6 or 7.....I will continue with the purchase.

He replied:

You have strung me along for a week now. Enough of your lies. People like you should not be allowed to buy or sell on E-bay you are waisting a lot of valuable time. First your friend says it's not worth the money. You send me an e-mail saying it was not worth it. It's funny how Google says Robert Watson is deceased are you using a dead persons identity? Your the second person in a row that used a deceased persons name for the same exact item back to back. You are probably that same person trying to pull a scam. Your lucky I didn't take your word and ship this item to you . I would be on a plane right now heading their with the police in tow. All your e-mails are being turned over to e-bay and they will review. I am not waisting my time with you any more. You re very dishonest and people like you think your a leading authority on scrap gold. Do not send any more e-mails you are in dishonest violation right now. Don't e-mail me anymore stick a fork in it, you're done.

Thanks everyone for possibly saving me from making a big newbie mistake. I got an unpaid item mark on my flawless ebay record but I think I'm better off.

P.S. My father and grandfather were both named Robert Watson and I' m quite certain google says there are a buttload of deceased people with the same name.


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## jimdoc (Mar 29, 2016)

He has it relisted again.

Jim


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 29, 2016)

Rmwatson78 said:


> I sent the seller the following message:
> 
> "After speaking to some professionals on the gold refining forums online it has come to my attention that your description of your item may not be completely truthful and if you are willing to guarantee at least 5 ounces of gold are there to be refined, which is lower than your claim of at least 6 or 7.....I will continue with the purchase.
> 
> ...



I would rather have the non payment mark aginst my account than loose a lot of money the way you were about too. Ebay would have probably stuck by you in the end and had the seller refund your money. You are better off either way not having that load of material.


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## nickvc (Mar 30, 2016)

I'm no expert on eBay protocol or procedures but I would be tempted to do as this guy is claiming to do and report the matter to eBay and see what they have to say, perhaps if they feel he has been less than honest they will restore your record, perhaps a few seasoned ebayers can comment.


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## rickbb (Mar 30, 2016)

I used to report people, but now feel it's a waste of time. If eBay bothers with it now, (they often don't), and actually suspend an account the people just get a new one within an hour and are back at it under a different name.


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## resabed01 (Mar 30, 2016)

One strike against you for unpaid bidder is not a big deal. Sellers can't block you from bidding until you've had two of these strikes within a 12 month period.
I'm guessing most sellers don't have their unpaid bidder block set up at all. The default setting for this is 5 strikes in 6 months I think.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, that's for sure!


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 30, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> Example: Saturday I won an auction for a lot of way outdated data jacks. The $17 USD I spent will yield about 2 grams of gold. I only know this because I've tested the same material.



Well, it's confession time. Just got my box of old data jacks, and they are a year or two newer than I thought they were. No 2+ grams of Au. This one was all on me. Correctly represented by the seller, misread by the buyer.

I guess that falls back on experience, (or lack thereof) and chalk it up as another lesson learned. 

Lesson learned this time: ASSUME NOTHING!! Even though they 'looked' identical to what I've worked with, and they basically are, I should have looked up the part numbers.

But with what I paid and what I got, still wasnt a bad buy, I should at least double that $17 even after chemicals and time.


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## rewalston (Mar 30, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> UncleBenBen said:
> 
> 
> > Example: Saturday I won an auction for a lot of way outdated data jacks. The $17 USD I spent will yield about 2 grams of gold. I only know this because I've tested the same material.
> ...



Ben are you talking about RJ45 jacks?


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 30, 2016)

No, Mr. Walston, these are the jacks in the wall that the rj45 patch cables plug in to. The same pins in those jacks were used in at least 3 other ways that I have found.

The jack looks like this...



The jack itself plugs into the assembly with this...



And if it was the type I was hoping for, those fingers would plug in to these...


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## rewalston (Mar 30, 2016)

Thank you Ben, I've never seen those types of jacks. Only seen them on NIC cards.

Rusty


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 30, 2016)

They are some good stuff Rusty. Makes me almost cry to think of the hundreds if not thousands I've thrown away over the years at work. 

Another reason why I should have gotten in to this sooner!!


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## macfixer01 (Apr 16, 2016)

I see that EBay seller is still repeating the same bulls**t and lies about that rack of boards in his auction. I decided to send him a message demonstrating how what he says makes no sense, just to rattle his cage. At least it should get me blocked from his auctions so I never have to worry about bidding on one of them inadvertently!


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## Rmwatson78 (Apr 18, 2016)

I appealed the unpaid item mark on my record and eBay has removed it, thanks all again for your advice.


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