# can someone please explain. "gold refining"



## randydnesselrotte1 (Oct 20, 2021)

so i bought hydrochloic and 70% nitric acid and SMB on ebay, now i need to know what to do to process all the gold powders from muriatic/bleach solution. im a lil weary about the nitric acid so any advice is appreciated i have roughly 5-10 lbs of powders to process


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## TommyA (Oct 20, 2021)

I hesitate to respond to your post because even though I enjoy learning about gold recovery and refining, I realize that complex situations can arise. Most of my problems have been self made. The chemicals you mentioned need to handled safely. You say you have 5-10 pounds of gold powder. It would be helpful to us to know how you came about getting the powder. If true you need to melt and pour else you need to remove base metals first. Both processes as well as safely handling chemicals can be found on the forum.


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## butcher (Oct 20, 2021)

Sounds like a recipe for a disaster, toxic and deadly fumes, toxic Chemicals and dangerous reagent's you do not understand how they react or how the hazardous waste produced can poison your family and other people in your area.

Put away the chemicals spend your time studying.

Start with learning how you are going to deal with toxic and hazardous waste you are planning to produce.

Gain an understanding of the different chemical processes you plan on using for recovery or refining the metals.

Hoke's book will give you the basic's you may have to read it several times to get a fair understanding of what the book is showing you.
Many factor can play into how to proceed, different metals or materials react differently to processes and are processed differently by type of scrap, understanding the type of scrap and the different methods to process it is also a learning curve, dumping acid on jewelry scrap can form deadly gases and deadly poisonous solutions some of which you may just cough and walk away with damaged lungs and a shorter life span, dumping acid on gold ore and you could die right there over the reaction from arsenic poisoning and contaminating the area with the deadly gas and its oily toxic deposits.

Your question should be where to begin my study to learn this field of work.

In order to learn the skills of a chemist in gold recovery and then gold refining you need to Study.
Then asking questions from what you learned in study to further your goals.


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## butcher (Oct 20, 2021)

Gold refining is a process of making the metal more pure.

Refining is a process used after the gold is recovered in one of many different types of processes, there are many different ways gold is recovered before processing it in the refining steps, and many different ways metals are separated or purified in refining the metal to a high purity.

some mechanical processes, some metallurgical processes and others chemical processes. 

It can take years of study learning about refining gold (If not the rest of my life), and it would take me more time than that to explain all I learn, I never will learn it all, but I keep going at it anyway, many times just to learn how much I still do not know...


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## randydnesselrotte1 (Oct 20, 2021)

i started with muriatic/peroxide for circuit boards and gp pins liquified in muriatic and bleach now i have all the droppings from sayed solution which melted down to gold plated copper and now i ordered the right stuff mentioned above and have the unmelted droppings (dried) from the muriatic bleach solution and instead of wasting fuel to melt all the unpure stuff down i want to refine it from the powder state


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## randydnesselrotte1 (Oct 20, 2021)

randydnesselrotte1 said:


> i started with muriatic/peroxide for circuit boards and gp pins liquified in muriatic and bleach now i have all the droppings from sayed solution which melted down to gold plated copper and now i ordered the right stuff mentioned above and have the unmelted droppings (dried) from the muriatic bleach solution and instead of wasting fuel to melt all the unpure stuff down i want to refine it from the powder state


i have gas mask and conical flask


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## butcher (Oct 20, 2021)

It may just be your description of the process, but I cannot follow it, it sounds like your trying to recover gold with a refining process.

I say put it all away, the chemicals and jars of toxic substances, store them for now in a safe place, and study, gain an understanding, it sounds to me, like your just headed for a big mess if you continue with chemicals and doing things you do not understand.

Put up the chemicals until you learn more of how to use them safely and productively.

Gain some understanding before jumping into a mess, study first.

Gas masks may help or can be just plain useless, in your case you have no understanding of the different deadly gases you will be dealing with in your recovery or refining operations, and if the mask is even capable of protecting you from the gas or fumes you may produce.

Again I would stop spending my money on supplies that I think, I might need, or something someone has discussed or of what I seen on youtube and gain the education I needed to succeed before proceeding.


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## butcher (Oct 20, 2021)

Randy, I would like to help you get started in this field of work, and maybe gain a few skills and knowledge, but unless you put away the chemicals, stop going toward the edge of the cliff, and back up and spend time studying, you will be better off with other hobbies trying get your gold some other way.


It takes study and hard work to learn these skills, you do not learn them by mixing dangerous chemicals with metals making toxic substances and asking questions that do not make sense, asking how to do the chemistry of something you know nothing about, what step do I take next to get to the cliff, not what to do with the deadly poison's I created to try and possibly get some gold.

Slow down & study.


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## randydnesselrotte1 (Oct 21, 2021)

OK.... CAN YOU POST THE LINK TO THE HOKES BOOK THEN I GUESS


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## butcher (Oct 21, 2021)

Printer Friendly Copy of Hoke's Book


Let me start by thanking Noxx, Harold_V and Palladium. Thank you Noxx for creating this forum where priceless information is so freely shared. Thank you Harold for encouraging everyone to read Hoke's book. And thank you Palladium for making the digital version of her book available to us all...




goldrefiningforum.com


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## butcher (Oct 21, 2021)

Dealing with Waste


I have been roaming this site for a few weeks, and with Hoke's book on it's way (fyi Harold) and Steve's DVD's I should be ready to start recovering pm's here pretty soon. I do have concerns about how to correctly deal with wastes. I am looking for some insight into how you guys deal with this...




goldrefiningforum.com


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## FrugalRefiner (Oct 21, 2021)

randydnesselrotte1 said:


> OK.... CAN YOU POST THE LINK TO THE HOKES BOOK THEN I GUESS


You don't have to yell. Please don't post in all caps.

You'll find links to both a printer friendly version and a screen readable version in my signature line below.

Dave


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2021)

Randy if you use a phone to read the forum.
Turn your phone sideways to see the signatures.


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## randydnesselrotte1 (Oct 21, 2021)

TY


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## Elemental (Oct 21, 2021)

Randy,

Please ensure you understand what your gas mask is rated for. You'll be generating acidic fumes with these reactions. You may need a specific filter for this application. Also, consider a gas mask a type of defense in depth, ideally you'll want some other way of removing/capturing/dispersing the fumes generated. The mask is there just in case there is an accident/failure of your other systems. 

Elemental


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## randydnesselrotte1 (Oct 23, 2021)

when i pull it out of hiding ill post pics of what im trying to tell you that i have and need to process


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## Geo (Dec 23, 2021)

Two main principles when refining metal. You are either removing your target metal from everything else, or you are removing everything else from your target metal. Of these two principles, there are many paths to achieve what you want. Pick one and study that one process until you have a firm understanding and then more to the next. Don't try to learn one process from start to finish all at once. There are usually many steps in one process. Learn each step completely before moving to the next step. If not, how would you know if what you are doing is actually doing what you expect it to do? You should have a clear expectation of what should happen. That way, if you observe something different than what is expected, you can stop there and figure out what happened before moving on. It's much easier to figure out a mistake when it's fresh than to try and backtrack a half dozen processes to try and figure out what went wrong.


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## kadriver (Dec 25, 2021)

Step one: get a fume hood - no way to safely do these reactions without one. I didnt have one when I first got started. A whiff of nitrogen dioxide here, a breath of chlorine gas there, SO2 fumes are the worst - for me. I didn't think it was that bad. My legs would suddenly develope cramps so bad while seated that I had to stand and walk them off before I could sit back down. I believe that this was due to breathing NO2 fumes because I didn't have a fume hood. Today, if I get any SO2 gas in my lungs at all, my lungs swell up and it interferes with my breathing for an hour or so. I believe that I've developed a sensitivity, due to breathing the SO2 repeatedly, when I first started refining, as I added SMB to precipitate gold - with no fume hood. Some will say, "I'll just do the reactions outdoors and make sure the wind is blowing the fumes away from me." Here's the problem with that line of thought: no matter how well you can hold your breath, and even if you approach the reaction outdoors from the upwind direction, the fumes will still wrap around your body from the eddy currents of airflow and draw the toxic fumes towards you. The fumes will get in your face, on your skin, in your eyes, hair, and clothing. Even if you turn and walk ten paces away, when you finally draw a breath (after trying to hold it while adding the reagents), the fumes will still be there and get drawn into your lungs. Slow chronic low dose exposure, as described above, will take its toll on your health. There is no way to safely do these reactions without a fume hood. This has been my experience.


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## notehunter494 (Dec 25, 2021)

If you are in a suburban area a scrubber as well. I see you have powders as a starting material. They offer a Large surface area and although they may or may not instantly react fast they can develop quickly into a runaway reaction.


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## KStreeter (Mar 25, 2022)

kadriver said:


> Step one: get a fume hood - no way to safely do these reactions without one. I didnt have one when I first got started. A whiff of nitrogen dioxide here, a breath of chlorine gas there, SO2 fumes are the worst - for me. I didn't think it was that bad. My legs would suddenly develope cramps so bad while seated that I had to stand and walk them off before I could sit back down. I believe that this was due to breathing NO2 fumes because I didn't have a fume hood. Today, if I get any SO2 gas in my lungs at all, my lungs swell up and it interferes with my breathing for an hour or so. I believe that I've developed a sensitivity, due to breathing the SO2 repeatedly, when I first started refining, as I added SMB to precipitate gold - with no fume hood. Some will say, "I'll just do the reactions outdoors and make sure the wind is blowing the fumes away from me." Here's the problem with that line of thought: no matter how well you can hold your breath, and even if you approach the reaction outdoors from the upwind direction, the fumes will still wrap around your body from the eddy currents of airflow and draw the toxic fumes towards you. The fumes will get in your face, on your skin, in your eyes, hair, and clothing. Even if you turn and walk ten paces away, when you finally draw a breath (after trying to hold it while adding the reagents), the fumes will still be there and get drawn into your lungs. Slow chronic low dose exposure, as described above, will take its toll on your health. There is no way to safely do these reactions without a fume hood. This has been my experience.


I am a critical care nurse, just starting on my precious metal refining journey, I have to tell you that this is so very correct. I’ve seen chronic damage from breathing in acidic fumes and it can literally cause your lungs to swell preventing you from ongassing oxygen and off gassing carbon dioxide, also, prolonged low dose exposure can lead to interstitial lung scarring, and pulmonary hypertension which is high blood pressure between the heart and lungs which also impairs your gas exchange. I am newbie as you can get when it comes to capturing and refining but one thing I do know is the physiologic effects these chemicals can have on the body. kadriver is on point! I want to start doing this now but I have to wait until I can get a fume hood as well. Safety first and patience in all things. It’s not worth your life or quality of life to rush into it without the proper equipment!


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## rickbb (Mar 25, 2022)

randydnesselrotte1 said:


> i have gas mask and conical flask



STOP! Throw that "gas mask" away. It will NOT SAVE YOUR LIFE! They are NOT made for this use, they will not work, you will damage your lungs, maybe even die.


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## KStreeter (Mar 25, 2022)

You need a fume hood rated to handle acids, no metal parts. Gas mask will not protect you.


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## GoIdman (Mar 26, 2022)

@randydnesselrotte1 hi,

I am a member of this forum for a while...i consider myself still a newbie allthough i'm active reader of the forum every day. I still study processes and chemical ecuations to understand everything, i'm more into recovery than refining, since it doesn't use chemicals.
I rather design machines and processes which are less poluting than use classic recovery techniqes which can hurt you if not done safely...
My recommendation as other member have already told you....study...study...study...pile up your stuff, recover first all your valuables .... when you have enough then you should tink about refining...

Be safe

Pete.


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## cejohnsonsr1 (Mar 26, 2022)

There are really 2 parts to the process, assuming we’re talking about scrap. First is recovery, where you get the precious metals separated from everything else. Then the refining, where you concentrate the purity. It’s not easy to explain in a little while. I recommend you check out Sreetips on YouTube. He has individual videos and series videos that explain and demonstrate the processes for gold, silver and platinum group metals. He’s been at it a long time and really is the best source of knowledge available, in my opinion. He also doesn’t edit out his occasional mistakes, so you can learn from that too. Be prepared to spend quite a bit of time. Good luck!


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## Yggdrasil (Mar 26, 2022)

A simple view, is that any process that increases the purity of the element you are aiming for, can be called refining. Not all processes are good or even recommended. But the processes used by the majority of users in this forum, can be considered as safe as can be, in this dangerous field. 
As long as you follow all the recommendations.
Qwerty
And as cejohnsonsr1 says Sreetips/Kadriver gives good info.


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## AustAuScrap (Mar 26, 2022)

Hi,
I Second or third the danger regards gas mask, The multi cartridge gas masks used in Olympic Downs Downs smelter and refinery operations were PPE for use during evacuation of personnel only- in all function areas every one was in self contained breathing equipment in case there there was a failure of the fume extraction and even these guys carried a gas mask to use during evacuation in case the breathing systems failed.
Each cartridge on the gas mask was for specific gas/gasses and time of safe use was rated in minutes depending on the gas concentration. The cartridges were stack able and configured for the gases that could be encountered in ones particular part of operations 
Eye protection is also very important to consider as chemical fumes/vapors can seriously impact on the eyeballs and moist parts.


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## Martijn (Mar 26, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> A simple view, is that any process that increases the purity of the element you are aiming for, can be called refining.


Like with C₂H₅OH


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## Yggdrasil (Mar 26, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Like with C₂H₅OH


Distilling can be used for alcohol or Osmium tetraoxide for example 

Edit: But do not mix them, if you plan to drink the first


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## richoc (Mar 27, 2022)

If your getting slot card fingers off computer PCI cards, removing it from the cards and collecting the foils, you are recovering gold from scrap. These foils will most likely be 10k hard gold.

Processing this 10k Gold to pure 24K to get spot price is refining.

Tip recover a lot and figure out what you like to work with, then the process that you think would work best.
Say you have 10 lbs. of plated pins, well AP is a time and resource waste on these, a de-plating cell would be the best, as these parts are plated in gold. (My opinion and what work with the most, I can run Gold filled, trace on cards to plated car rims this way)Removes the gold and leaves you the copper bearing pins in a form you can yet sell.
You can run one with just a sea salt water design, it does not have to be sulfuric acid cell design.


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## Yggdrasil (Mar 27, 2022)

Please elaborate, I have heard about silver deplating with water, but not gold.


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## richoc (Apr 13, 2022)

The de-plating cell uses distilled water and salt for the solution.
About 5-6 Table spoons of Salt in a Liter of distilled water.
Power supply will need higher out put than in a sulfuric acid cell, 12v at 10-15 amps.


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