# Silver cell



## Williamjf77 (Apr 22, 2020)

So I started my first silver cell, made my electrolyte using 5ozt of silver in 1 liter with no free nitric as I had a few discs of coins left in the beaker. When I filled the cell the volume wasn’t high enough so I added water and I can’t get the current over .35A. Then I dissolved another ounce in 50ml water [email protected] ml nitric and added it in and the current draw went down to like .18A. 

What am I doing wrong? There is crystal growing but slow.

Thanks


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 22, 2020)

How far apart are your anode and cathode? The greater the distance, the more the resistance.

What kind of power supply are you using?

Dave


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## Williamjf77 (Apr 22, 2020)

I’m using a bowl and the anode basket is about 4 inches away. 

I’m using a power supply I put together with a dc dc converter with adjustable voltage. Cheap from eBay.


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## Williamjf77 (Apr 22, 2020)

I’ll measure when I get home. I did hook the leads up backwards for about a minute, not sure what that would do.


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## anachronism (Apr 22, 2020)

Wil.

Pics really would help. 

Jon


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## Williamjf77 (Apr 22, 2020)

There it is, I’ve got about 3.5 inches from the bowl to the outside of the basket but the bottom might be less


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## Williamjf77 (Apr 22, 2020)

Ok I think I figured it out, 2 things actually.

The first was the filter material that I used which was a vacuum cleaner bag but I noticed when I lifted the basket the electrolyte didn’t drain out the filter bag. So I used 2 wypall clothes and then put the basket in and started drawing 2 amps.

Also I think my anode basket is too big for my bowl and my bowl is not deep enough. I can control the current by raising the basket up which reduces current or lower which raises current


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## Shark (Apr 22, 2020)

I tried a vacuum cleaner bag and had problems. I picked up some muslin cloth at Walmart and it worked fine. 

I like the way you used the bucket lid, pretty ingenious.


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## Williamjf77 (Apr 23, 2020)

Well shark I’m a drywall taper so I went with what I know, a compound bucket lid. 

I had the wypall here and they are polypropylene with a fabric on the outside and they seem to be working for now, next time I go to Walmart I’ll get some muslin.


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## kurtak (Apr 24, 2020)

Williamjf77 said:


> So I used 2 wypall clothes and then put the basket in and started drawing 2 amps.



Those clothes are NOT going to work well - even using 2 of them - they are way to porous - the anode slimes will likely go through the pores & contaminate your (pure) silver crystals

Get the muslin (un-bleached) from Wal-Mart as suggested by Shark

Kurt


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## Palladium (Apr 24, 2020)

Williamjf77 said:


> What am I doing wrong? There is crystal growing but slow.
> 
> Thanks



It takes about 24 hours for the crystals to coat the surface of the bowl. As they coat the surface the surface area of the bowl the cathode surface will increase by many factors. It will kick off after that.

At first with a clean solution, especially one with a high concentration like yours, I will jack the voltage up to 5 volts for the first 24 hours. After 24 hours when the cathode builds you can lower the voltage back to the 3 volt range.


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## Williamjf77 (Apr 24, 2020)

Isn’t muslin just a plain weave cotton, from what I read it’s looser weave than a t shirt.


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## anachronism (Apr 24, 2020)

Williamjf77 said:


> Isn’t muslin just a plain weave cotton, from what I read it’s looser weave than a t shirt.



You could always just follow the advice you ask for and go get it. 8)


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## Williamjf77 (Apr 24, 2020)

Well overnight the cell grew some very long stringy crystals about halfway to my anode basket. I knocked them off and now I got a cool 1.05A at 3.6v. 


I’m thinking the initial basket height which was too close caused a growth directly in the center., now all I have is the nice pretty evenly dispersed “nodes” for lack of a better word. There was a growth starting right from the beginning dead center on the bottom of the bowl.

I will get the muslin but I mine as well finish this basket I have going. I was curious as to what weight to use, like t shirt or thicker,?

I chose the wypall x70 because it’s white and not as hard to blow through as the dewalt fabric vacuum bag I started with, but it’s not easy to blow through. It seems to be working. I was going to use the x80 wipes inhave because they are tough but blue so I didn’t want to use them. I went with the vacuum cleaner bag because of sreetips videos, and they are free from work and about 2 square feet of Dacron material.


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## Shark (Apr 29, 2020)

If I recall right, muslin is a standard. Unbleached muslin at Walmart is around $2 a square yard and has a dingy, almost dirty look to it. It is raw, unprocessed cotton. I don't recall the exact thread count, but once in use try not to disturb it any more than necessary. It worked great for me and I had tried a couple of different types of cloth with varying degrees of failure/success.


Edit to add:

Just saw this from Kurt. It explains more on the cloth weave.

https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=28895#p305014


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## Williamjf77 (Apr 29, 2020)

Thanks shark, I was trying to order it on amazon, I’m personally staying away from Walmart at this time so I was trying things I had on hand, so far I’ve got good results now except for the crystal mostly forming directly under the basket.

Does the amount of holes in the bottom of the basket and sides have anything to do with where the crystal forms?


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## Shark (Apr 29, 2020)

I have heard that it don't, but in my case it did. Early on I had heavy concentrations at the bottom center. I added a few more holes around the sides and it started growing evenly all around the bowl. I did change the filter cloth at the same time so it could have been the filter as well.

In the thread I posted, there is a link to some bags from Amazon that sounded pretty cheap, and made of muslin as well. I may actually order some myself just to have on hand.


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## Williamjf77 (May 3, 2020)

Well I harvested the crystal early because I had a long stringy crystal shoot right up to the basket and it did seem like it pierced the bag, the crystals have a little tan hint to them so as I thought the cell is contaminated. I assumed it would be.

So does that mean my electrolyte is contaminated also? Is it okay to filter the electrolyte and then use again? If it is Palladium contamination the palladium won’t stay in solution with silver and copper right?

Anyway just checking to see if I should start over with fresh electrolyte or not. I have muslin bought at Walmart I just have to pick it up tomorrow.


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## FrugalRefiner (May 3, 2020)

Williamjf77 said:


> So does that mean my electrolyte is contaminated also? Is it okay to filter the electrolyte and then use again? If it is Palladium contamination the palladium won’t stay in solution with silver and copper right?



If any of the slimes escaped your anode bag, they will either settle onto your crystals, or you can filter them after you clean up your cell. Consider that the slimes are the stuff that does not dissolve into the electrolyte and stays undissolved in the anode bag, so after you clean the cell and you filter it, it will be just as if the bag hadn't been compromised.

Palladium is soluble in the electrolyte. If you have it in your feedstock, it will dissolve into the electrolyte and build up over time. You need to keep an eye on the color of the electrolyte. As more copper dissolves the color will become a deeper blue. If there is palladium present it will add a brown tint to the electrolyte, not the pure blue of copper. The threshold for palladium in solution is far lower than that of copper before it begins to codeposit. There are other metals that will build up in the electrolyte depending on your feedstock. Anything that is soluble in nitric can dissolve into and contaminate the electrolyte.

Dave


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## Williamjf77 (May 17, 2020)

Just an update on my progress, while I haven’t been able to buy muslin locally, Walmart has nothing left that has to do with crafts and all fabric shops are closed around me due to Covid 19.

However I did find a bunch of the muslin bags at work, the door installers use them to put door hardware in so they are everywhere on the job site. I used it doubled up and it’s working great.

I did order some from amazon but I’m still waiting.

Now I need more silver.


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## Palladium (May 17, 2020)

They make Muslin cloth bags for tea and herbs also that i use to bag anodes.
I THINK i have some somewhere in my shop. I will look for them and if so i will send you some. 
Let me check and make sure.


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## Palladium (May 17, 2020)

I see now that you ordered some from Amazon.
My bad.


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