# ceramic processor question



## myfalconry76 (Jun 23, 2016)

I have all these ceramic processors and hardly a grasp on refining them. I understand the AR process. I feel I can do it that way, however I have no nitric acid. Can I use the hcl and bleach process? I've read some remove the gold caps and iv seen that some don't! I haven't found any info yet on acid/bleach recovery of them. Was just curious if the acid/bleach would work like the AR or would it be better to wait till I get nitric acid? And while I'm on the subject of AR, has anyone had any experience with the gold recovery kit that is sold on eBay?
Thank you


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jun 23, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> I have all these ceramic processors and hardly a grasp on refining them. I understand the AR process. I feel I can do it that way, however I have no nitric acid. Can I use the hcl and bleach process? I've read some remove the gold caps and iv seen that some don't! I haven't found any info yet on acid/bleach recovery of them. Was just curious if the acid/bleach would work like the AR or would it be better to wait till I get nitric acid? And while I'm on the subject of AR, has anyone had any experience with the gold recovery kit that is sold on eBay?
> Thank you



Welcome to the forum.

Bleach and HCl would work, but you will have a ton of solution, and it would be a balancing game trying to keep the solution acidic while dissolving gold.
Acid-bleach ia beat used to dissolve fine powders or foils, it can even take awhile/a lot of solution to dissolve foils if they are thick ones (if you're one of the lucky ones that *gets* thick foils :lol: )

What kind of ceramic processors is what determines whether the caps are removed or not. Some just nuke it all in AR, some remove the caps and process them separately. Mostly a preference thing.

You dont want to mix black fiber, ceramic, and green fiber. Even some ceramic ones should be separated from other ceramic cpu's.

I wouldnt get anything off ebay, unless it was from a forum member.

You would be better off finding a store that sells Hi Yield nitrate of soda, or hi yield stump remover, both od which are nitrates which you can make poor man AR with, or your own nitric.

Hope this helps to get you started, but, searching the forum and reading about what you will be processing is your best bet. Read and read and read to a point of ad naseum, then read a bit more. If you can, you will do fine at this venture. There is no magic bullet as some say, and it is no get rich quick venture either. 

Best of luck.
Toph


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 23, 2016)

Will nitric acid 67% work well enough? It's like 40 dollars a bottle and the shipping is through the roof. But I'm having to much fun.
And another question, about magnetic pins! Could I mod a vent hood to blow all the gas from my recoveries through a container filled with magnetic pins to have them braking down while I recover fingers? It was just a thought that in a container filled with pins and the gas cooling and condisating it the container may may start the process of breaking down the metal. Say I run fingers for a month and all that gas going into the container filled with pins, may be easier to process later with less acid! Am I wrong in this train of thought or is it possible? I read some add them to the stock pot or cover them in a tub with water and let them rust!


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 23, 2016)

This is the alleged kit on eBay.http://m.ebay.com/itm/Aqua-regia-chemical-supply-kit-w-smelting-flux-kit-Gold-refining-supply-kit-/162098127695?nav=SEARCH


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 23, 2016)

Aqua regia (AR) is the only way that I know of to dissolve the gold alloy brazes holding the gold plated lids onto the seal rings and holding the chips onto the gold plated pads. In many cases, these brazes make up the bulk of the gold value on the package.

The kit is for making poorman's AR but there is only 1/4 pounds of the chemical you use with the HCl instead of nitric (it's sodium nitrate) and that's not much. The poorman's AR is inferior to the regular AR but it should work. I've never had a need to use it. There are a few people on the forum that have mastered it's use and have written about it. The sodium nitrate is commonly sold as fertilizer here in the states. It is often labeled nitrate of soda.


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## Refining Rick (Jun 23, 2016)

Way back when I started, that is the seller I bought my kit from. When I bought mine he sent it with copperas as the precipitant and he was allowed to say sodium nitrate in the listing. 
I would recommend it to the first time hobby refiner. Not bad for the money. Comes with stannous chloride crystals, flux and borax. You can toss out the urea if your going for platinum. Denox another way.
The bad side is, the instructions are seriously lacking, but it comes with everything you need. Except the guidance of this board and the fine work of Mrs. Hoke. READ READ READ first.

Edit: I have done all my processors with "poor mans" A/R without problems. Adding to much sodium nitrate, and the subsequent denoxing have been my only issues to date.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 23, 2016)

I think I'm just going to get a bottle of 67% nitric acid on Monday. I've almost got all the supies for building my fume hood may have it completed by Monday and everything moved into the shop and better organized. Just got another 15 pounds of ram for free today. So I will be stripping 60lb of from for the next month. ( while reading) by then I will be ready for refinement of the recovered finger gold and can introduce my self to AR. Hopfully properly!
Thanx again folks, I'm grateful for your responses. So far the people here have been way easy to talk to.
Thanx


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 23, 2016)

How large is the bottle? One liter of nitric, used alone as 50/50, will only dissolve about 240g of the common base metals. When used with HCl, as aqua regia, the nitrate will stretch about 5-7 times further.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 23, 2016)

goldsilverpro said:


> How large is the bottle? One liter of nitric, used alone as 50/50, will only dissolve about 240g of the common base metals. When used with HCl, as aqua regia, the nitrate will stretch about 5-7 times further.


 49.38oz is $44.00 plus $33.00 shipping!


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## upcyclist (Jun 24, 2016)

To answer your earlier question, yes, 67% is what you want. Also, "technical grade"--you don't need analytic grade or anything super-pure for most work. _42° Baume_ is equivalent to 67% (roughly azeotropic) nitric acid.

Edit to add: Obviously, most of that shipping charge is the hazmat fee. Once (if) you get rolling, you can buy in larger quantities, and the hazmat fees will be less proportionally.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 24, 2016)

upcyclist said:


> To answer your earlier question, yes, 67% is what you want. Also, "technical grade"--you don't need analytic grade or anything super-pure for most work. _42° Baume_ is equivalent to 67% (roughly azeotropic) nitric acid.
> 
> Edit to add: Obviously, most of that shipping charge is the hazmat fee. Once (if) you get rolling, you can buy in larger quantities, and the hazmat fees will be less proportionally.


 This bottle should last a while I've decided against trying to process connector pins. And just focus on finger and processors. I'm just going to find someone who will buy my motherboards. Wich I've found to be a pain in the alphabet! Most so far only buy if you have a ton of them. Right now I only have about 200lb of assorted boards mostly mother boards hard drive boards and disk drive boards. And what to do with the power supplies other than part them out for thin electric motors. The tin and heat sinks I haul off for scrap tin, aluminum and copper. And there's the plastic, plastic, plastic!
I am thinking about sending it all to boardsort, if I ever get the drive to do weight and inventory on it all.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 27, 2016)

So for the beginner, on the point of highest yeild with the least complications. Wich would be better, the poor man's AR or the real AR? I'm not concerned with what will be safer. As I will do everything in my power to be safe. I enjoy my life! Most of the time. I would think the original would be the easiest to get right and I do feel more trusting with it. But wanted to get some advice.


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## nickvc (Jun 27, 2016)

As GSP has said either will work but poormans has its limitations, it all depends on what you can get, the ease of getting it and the cost.
One point to stress is to know what to expect with either mix or any process, it's very easy to jump in too soon and create one big mess, your gold is going nowhere unless you throw it out, so read up on the forum about the ways other members process similar materials, there are more than one way with certain items.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 27, 2016)

nickvc said:


> As GSP has said either will work but poormans has its limitations, it all depends on what you can get, the ease of getting it and the cost.
> One point to stress is to know what to expect with either mix or any process, it's very easy to jump in too soon and create one big mess, your gold is going nowhere unless you throw it out, so read up on the forum about the ways other members process similar materials, there are more than one way with certain items.


So basically what your saying is there is more than one way to skin a cat. Wich I know from reading the forum and seeing how many different ways there are to skin a cat.
(To anyone new who may read this skinning cats is not a step in the process) I guess I'll stick to the classics 100.00 bottle of nitric it is. 
Could someone be so kind as to explain those limitations. It seems the mistakes that are made in the process can be avoided by knowing your material you plan to refine. And there seems to be a bit of variation in what the limitations are clearaty would be nice.
Ps I'm dyslexic, but I do read the forum. Actually need to probably need to take a break for a day or two. W's are starting to look like Z's and my R's have become H's. This is how I know when it's time to take a break. Other than that I'm brilliant.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jun 27, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> > As GSP has said either will work but poormans has its limitations, it all depends on what you can get, the ease of getting it and the cost.
> ...



The limitations are that you have to learn to work with it and know how much to use for your process just as you do regular nitric.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 27, 2016)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> myfalconry76 said:
> 
> 
> > nickvc said:
> ...


 Yes but that is only part of the answer. Learning how much to use is not a limitation. The math solves that problem. If you know your material! Wich when it comes to actual math I've only seen a couple here use it in their threads.


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## Refining Rick (Jun 27, 2016)

Just a post to show poor mans A/R results. A fairly large batch of ceramic CPUs (approx. 24 various kinds, large and small, including one newer PRO) and some fingers. I did this this weekend with sodium nitrate, HCl, sulmafic, and SMB. I am pretty happy with the results. 2.8 G

After learning and following Geo's sulmafic example, I no longer use urea. I only use a prill to check for reaction to make sure my nitric is dead.
As far as when to add more sodium nitrate, I just watch. When the reaction starts to slow and I can clearly tell there is still metals left, I add a spoon more. Continue until digestion is complete. Use a large vessel to de-nox in and there seems to be little to no problem.


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## nickvc (Jun 28, 2016)

The one trick when using either process is to start with the material in more HCl than you need, this causes no problems in precipitation, then add in increments your nitric or substitute reagent, this is best done with hot solutions, when all reaction has ceased after the last addition of nitric or substitute add a little more HCl to make sure that's not why the reaction has ceased if you get no further reaction you should be done.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 29, 2016)

nickvc said:


> The one trick when using either process is to start with the material in more HCl than you need, this causes no problems in precipitation, then add in increments your nitric or substitute reagent, this is best done with hot solutions, when all reaction has ceased after the last addition of nitric or substitute add a little more HCl to make sure that's not why the reaction has ceased if you get no further reaction you should be done.


This is what I had planned to do, thank you for confirming it for me much appreciated!


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 29, 2016)

Even the gold cap Pentium processors and the and gold caps seem to be magnetic. How much of a difference will in make in AR? I am reading hoke, but like I said befor I struggle with dislexia! I don't mind sharing that. But it really dose hinder my learning. If it was a audio book I would have had it memorized the first day as I am audiographic.
I have to read things several times to get half of it.
I've seen videos, of folk just smashing the processors and processing them as stated above. Without separating any magnetic properties out. At least that's what I gathered from the video. With the SMB what will it drop out the iron or kovar htiw the gold? I know Hoke said iron and fine strands of copper could be used to drop out Gold or cement it back I think. But will SMB drop other metals? I haven't came across anything about Kovar in her book. I'm guessing that may be because it wasn't invented when the book was wrote? I also haven't read anything about precipitation of gold with sodium metabisulfite yet either, unless I missed it.
I don't wonk, winking any of you deal with dyslexia. But it can be a real challenge to read. Your reading and all the sudden your a paragraph down farther than where you started! And if you don't catch it you miss a lot. Floating letters and lines make it real difficult. Not to mention letters turn or even sometimes change shapes. But I really am far from stupid.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 29, 2016)

Well I got hoke on audio. I realized that this book is so out dated. That using it to refine and reclaim pms in today's erra, with the technological advancements in chemistry. It is for the most part been made obsolete. The techniques used today by most alchemist differ greatly. Unless you live in the 50s this book is of little value other than the combinations of reagents and the basic understanding of pms and set up of equipment and safety and disposal. It is found wanting. Sorry, that's my opinion.


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## jimdoc (Jun 29, 2016)

There are still alchemists today?


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## Refining Rick (Jun 29, 2016)

Oh no he didn't.
Hoke's words are just as true today as then. And fundamentally, the processes are the same too. I also find the way it is written endearing.
"Just toss some gas on that till it's gone." :shock: 
"A couple drops of HCl in a gallon of water tastes bitter....." :| 
It's like June Clever's guide to AR-15 repair.
Alchemists try to make gold. Not reclaim and refine it.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jun 29, 2016)

Hoke's book is regarded in very high esteem here for good reason.

It teaches you how to familiarise yourself with reactions, and what processes are best for what material, and teaches you about testing your material, and so much more.

It was written for every day joe's, that dont have a background in chemistry. To me, that book is just as valuable as this forum, and I would be willing to bet, every member on this forum thats done this awhile would agree.

Fundamentals *that* is the book. ..True, she doesnt mention SMB...but SO2.. Did she deal with printed circuit boards and solder mask? No.. But she teaches the same *fundamental* principle, incineration.

A well revered man on this board, attained enough wisdom from the book to establish a 20 year commercial refining career from it, and was able to retire a good while ago. I am sure the book has impacted a lot more peoples' lives than just Harold in such a profound and remarkable way. But that is ome example that echoes through my mind, as it is an example of the great things that can come if you put in your time, do your studying, work hard, and treat people fairly. 

Technology has come a long way since Hoke's time, true - i will not argue that. But, i will reflect upon the point that. Without the basic understanding of the systems in place before, there is no insight as to where improvement can successfully be done. Technology is a progression. Not a spontaneous revelation.

You cannot fill a cup which is already full my friend.

Edit to fix my typing blunders


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 29, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> Hoke's book is regarded in very high esteem here for good reason.
> 
> It teaches you how to familiarise yourself with reactions, and what processes are best for what material, and teaches you about testing your material, and so much more.
> 
> ...


I agree, l 'm not saying that the book is flawed in it's course of reveling the proper way of refining pm or processes to recover and refine said materials. However, things have changed quit abit in perspective. Even though the basic fundamentals are stable in this environ of processing pm scrap. Even in the header it is explained to the readers, that it is outdated and one should further their research by means of other sources!
Hoke, explains how pm refining in it's beginning 
Was performed by only a few trained individuals and succeeded by apprenticeship to continue it's secrecy. Although the apprenticeship has fallen from the picture. Some of the secrecy still remains. Reading here on this forum I've seen some member say they will not yield certain information, due to the fact it's has they provide for their family's. (Horses mouth)!
I may regret this and will probably get the shaft.
But, if you read most of these threads and some are loaded with lots of good info. But for the most part are stopped in the process by people teing others to study and read. I mean a lot of them end in this way. You ready can get loads of good information here. Tons of it. However it is scattered through out a lot of different threads! The fishing seems endless. And one of the main reasons of this. Is the excuse of people not wanting to repeat this information over and over again. But the read and study thing is produced on this forum more than the actual answers to the question of a individual question of the thread.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not denoting the information on this forum as almost all of it is fanomanal. But Its more like a jigsaw puzzle than a aid. 
Like the other thread on how to improve the forum. One way would be to have in the process section, well noted procedure and clear instruction based on accumulation of factual scientific data on the process. After talking to a chemist friend of mine and putting forth ideas of reclaiming and refining metals. He told me. Sure, there are a few different ways to accomish raids tasks. But there is only one way to preform said actions properly. He also told me almost any nitrate could be used to make some sort of aqua regia. Except calcium nitrate. But, there is only one way to do it properly.
Y'all have a good one, may you drop a ton of pms


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## patnor1011 (Jun 29, 2016)

Gold recovery and refining is not suitable hobby for impatient people. It will take many years to master and learning is rather never-ending process.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jun 29, 2016)

Derek, you might want to review palladium reduction, a thread Geo just started about palladium he recovers from electronics. 

You cannot learn all she teaches by listening to the book one time. I've read it at least a half dozen times and I learn more every time.

Dave


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 29, 2016)

patnor1011 said:


> Gold recovery and refining is not suitable hobby for impatient people. It will take many years to master and learning is rather never-ending process.


I was told the same thing about falconry, and you know what I'm a pretty dang good falconer. With a wonderful understand of training birds of prey and hunting with them. Its not that I'm inpatient but move faster than others. And to better suit, some of the brightest minds in human history appeared to be impatient. Often bordering phycotic! "To compare impatience to passionate is a common anomaly is human nature!" But all is forgiven. Falconry and future. Can't expect everyone to know this.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 29, 2016)

One only makes mistakes or gose adtray for two reasons, 1 not paying attention and 2 wrong or lacking information! I'm paying attention. And now with audio I'm done with hoke. I'll post a few questions on that if anyone still cares to answers.
Thank you.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jun 29, 2016)

We come here to help.

Dave


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 29, 2016)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Derek, you might want to review palladium reduction, a thread Geo just started about palladium he recovers from electronics.
> 
> You cannot learn all she teaches by listening to the book one time. I've read it at least a half dozen times and I learn more every time.
> 
> Dave


Apperantly you can't! You don't know me,I'm highly audio graphic. I type slow as crap and read slower.
But if we have a conversation now and you record it I will repeat in word for word in 20 years.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 29, 2016)

Right now all I'm lacking is experiance. I got my answers to kovar and reading your forum now for another answers. The only thing that takes time is sifting through the threads to find answers because there not all in one place like a book.


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## UncleBenBen (Jun 29, 2016)

I finally scheduled two whole weeks off of work coming up soon. I was thinking I might try to get a bunch of processing done since I will be house sitting for my in-laws and have a place to keep watch over my solutions and all.

But if it will help, I can spend that time reading the whole forum to copy and paste all the information you might need into a format that will suit you.

That way you won't have to spend countless years learning this stuff like the rest of us. Hell, since we are holding you back, I'll just call out of work tomorrow and go ahead and get started on that.


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## nickvc (Jun 30, 2016)

Myfalconry
There is a very large difference in training birds of prey and recovery and refining of precious metals.
The major difference is if you get the processes or chemicals wrong they can injure or even kill you.
Do you really know already exactly what will happen when you add different reagents together or put different metals into acids?
The reason we promote Hoke is because it gives the reader the basics of the chemistry involved as well as many processes which are still utilised today, maybe in a slightly different manner but still valid processes.
Without that basic understanding whatever the members ,who can be bothered to post, write will be gibberish in the main needing hours of continuous updating so the OP can follow what has been advised or so they can follow the discussion.
I don't get paid to help you or anyone else nor do any other members or the moderators, we all do this for free to try and help and promote safe working and responsible behaviour in regards to the toxic wastes and toxic fumes we produce.
I'm not saying some people cannot learn faster than others but I personally have been in the refining world for over 30 years and I still learn something nearly every day and I'm sure many of the senior members of the forum would echo that, we all also make mistakes and with this particular field they can be fatal ones but by reading and learning you know as you do something that is wrong and can react without putting yourself or others in danger.
To put it simply no one knows it all when it comes to recovery and refining they are just such a huge field of science, you use your success in falconry to base your view that you can do outrun the teachings of HOke and the forum, I learnt to cook and I'm pretty good with most styles of cuisine but does that mean you would let me operate on you should you need it?


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 30, 2016)

nickvc said:


> Myfalconry
> There is a very large difference in training birds of prey and recovery and refining of precious metals.
> The major difference is if you get the processes or chemicals wrong they can injure or even kill you.
> Do you really know already exactly what will happen when you add different reagents together or put different metals into acids?
> ...


 I understand I do really! And with falconry If you train a raptor And do it wrong especially with imprints, you will end up hurt. For every action or process in life there are basic fundamentals that guid you to knowledge. Wherer it be falconry, mechanics physics, gold refining and even driving a car. Hoke gives excellent information. And though I remember and understand safety, chemicals and processes of recovery of pm. I was just simpley saying that it is lacking in its instruction on the process of the material that most come here to work with. I have not learned anything much yet and agree that everyday in many factors I will learn something new. But I do remember hoke and what it teaches. And though process dose not differ greatly many small factors in chemicals used can cause issues.
Thank you for a kind none sarcastic response. I will continue to learn.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 30, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> I finally scheduled two whole weeks off of work coming up soon. I was thinking I might try to get a bunch of processing done since I will be house sitting for my in-laws and have a place to keep watch over my solutions and all.
> 
> But if it will help, I can spend that time reading the whole forum to copy and paste all the information you might need into a format that will suit you.
> 
> That way you won't have to spend countless years learning this stuff like the rest of us. Hell, since we are holding you back, I'll just call out of work tomorrow and go ahead and get started on that.


Here is a better idea Mr smartly pants. Write a book on processing computer scrap in detail. I'll by one!


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## UncleBenBen (Jun 30, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> Here is a better idea Mr smartly pants. Write a book on processing computer scrap in detail. I'll by one!



Haha! I can't help it. The sarcasm really is genetic. And I do get it honest!

I didn't write it, but GSPs book is worth way more than the $35 he sells it for. I highly recommend it. Great source of info on e-scrap.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=22327&p=233617#p233617

P.S. Still would like to see some pics of your bird(s)!


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## FrugalRefiner (Jun 30, 2016)

OK, let's tone it down a notch everyone. myfalconry, you got off to a rough start here. A lot of people do. Many get through it and become valuable members of the forum, including some of our moderators. There are quite a few members here who are dyslexic, including some of our moderators (I'm one of them). If you truly have an eidetic memory (audio graphic isn't a recognized term outside of an urban dictionary), that's great for you! Just keep in mind that the ability to repeat something verbatim, and the ability to understand what those words mean can be two different things.

So let's try to get off to a fresh start. You'll find a treasure trove of information here, but it's not a book. This site was created as a forum, so by its nature, the information is scattered around. That's certainly not the most efficient or convenient format, but it is what it is. I wish you the best of luck in your journey here. We're here to help if you need it. I always recommend new members visit the Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum thread.

Dave


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## nickvc (Jun 30, 2016)

Myfalconry
You response heartens me, take your time this is not something to rush into, you will get it, you will recover and refine, spend time doing what we all hate in honesty studying, it will pay off, you will come to regard it as time well spent.
Slow down and enjoy the journey, it's a world of horror and suspense and with the right knowledge gratification at the end, I'm not here to kill your dreams but feed them, without imagination and the correct information all hopes are dreams that become nightmares.
You can do this, no you don't need to be a Nobel prize winner, I'm not, I'm just an average guy who learnt the hard and expensive way how to recover and refine, you don't need to learn that way, it's all here and free, you just have to apply yourself!
I wish you luck and hope to one day see your first buttons 8)


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## 4metals (Jun 30, 2016)

Most people will sit down and read a book like Hoke, or any technical book for that matter, and just have all of the words on the page blend together in a blob. 

The most valuable thing for a new refiner is the ability to recognize when things are happening. Hoke suggests some familiarization tests which any new refiner should do. Get out of your head recovery or refining and build a foundation based on visually seeing what a positive stain is for gold looks like by doing small scale, test tube sized reactions. Read and when you recognize that a test is being described, stop, make notes of what you will need to do the same test, and do it. Don't read on because it will all blend together in your brain and you will get nothing out of it. 

Learn the tests, see what the results look like first hand, and you will have a foundation of refining knowledge that will stay with you.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 30, 2016)

4metals said:


> Most people will sit down and read a book like Hoke, or any technical book for that matter, and just have all of the words on the page blend together in a blob.
> 
> The most valuable thing for a new refiner is the ability to recognize when things are happening. Hoke suggests some familiarization tests which any new refiner should do. Get out of your head recovery or refining and build a foundation based on visually seeing what a positive stain is for gold looks like by doing small scale, test tube sized reactions. Read and when you recognize that a test is being described, stop, make notes of what you will need to do the same test, and do it. Don't read on because it will all blend together in your brain and you will get nothing out of it.
> 
> Learn the tests, see what the results look like first hand, and you will have a foundation of refining knowledge that will stay with you.


 I kinda started doing this. Iv taken the most common metals found in computer scrap and to see how each one reacts in hcl. Put a piece of each in seperate contatainers. (I have not done it with any noble metals yet.) took notes on each. How long it took to disolve, temp, color and extra.
I will have some nitric acid tomorrow. I have a small portion of gold set aside for my first attempt at refining. I under stand the math behind it and have my calculations worked out I believe. I could be wrong. And some if not most of it is based on what I gathered from Hokes book.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 30, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> myfalconry76 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a better idea Mr smartly pants. Write a book on processing computer scrap in detail. I'll by one!
> ...


 It's ok no offence taken! Here you go.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 30, 2016)

Try this again. Here's my American kestrek north America's smallest. Falcon


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 30, 2016)

me and my Harris hawk


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 30, 2016)

a hunting trip with my red tailed hawk.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 30, 2016)

I have a ton more, but they will have to star charging me for storage.


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## UncleBenBen (Jun 30, 2016)

Very nice! Gorgeous birds!! I had a chance at getting apprenticed into falconry once. At the time I thought I had landed a contract to work two years in the Virgin Islands so I passed it up. By the time the contract fell through I had lost my chance with the birds.  

Thanks for giving me some sarcasm back. I love it! I really do recommend GSP's book. It's a good one! 8)

Start a thread about them in bar and grill. I'm sure the mods would be OK with it.


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## myfalconry76 (Jun 30, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> Very nice! Gorgeous birds!! I had a chance at getting apprenticed into falconry once. At the time I thought I had landed a contract to work two years in the Virgin Islands so I passed it up. By the time the contract fell through I had lost my chance with the birds.
> 
> Thanks for giving me some sarcasm back. I love it! I really do recommend GSP's book. It's a good one! 8)
> 
> Start a thread about them in bar and grill. I'm sure the mods would be OK with it.


Thank you for the advice, I may start a thread in bar and grill. Its a very rewarding experiance and you still have a chance. The studying and exam is the hardest part. That and finding a good sponsor for your apprenticeship very important. I'm banning on trapping a prairie falcone in November And get serious about hunting duck this year!


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 1, 2016)

First successful stannos test

 hope the rest of the process hose this easy


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## UncleBenBen (Jul 1, 2016)

Right on! Looks like Purple of Cassius to me!!


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 1, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> Right on! Looks like Purple of Cassius to me!!


Its definitely purple. One problem I may have and could use a tad bit of advice. I read here on the forum that it's not recommended to use urea to neutralize nitric acid. I've been adding little doses of nitric waiting for the reaction to stop. When I no longer see a reaction from the nitric, dose that mean it's done when there is no fizz and the gold is disolved? And hokes book says to boil off exces nitric then add more hcl. Any advice on that would be helpful? And what exactly happens to the nitric? Dose it do it's jod then go away or is it still there?


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jul 1, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> UncleBenBen said:
> 
> 
> > Right on! Looks like Purple of Cassius to me!!
> ...



Correct sir, urea just causes problems, especially if you have pgm's to deal with. -sulfamic acid is the preferred "quick method" to remove excess nitric, the bonus is it turns nitric to sulfuric and helps you to be able to filter off lead sulfate.

Try a little addition of HCl, if there is no more reaction after a while, I would say it is complete (depends on if you have the solution running hot or ambient temperature though, cold takes longer and isnt as noticeable at times)

Yes, Hoke speaks of evaporating Nitric from solution 3 times, try not to boil it, you will lose values. Nobody likes that! And, pay close attention to the small bubbles forming at the surface, when they start to come about, that is telling you nitric is close to its azeotrope in solution and can effervesce (and violently!) also making one lose their precious gold. 

Sometimes i wish nitric just did its job then went away, but alas, it does not. It can decompose over time, and with heat as well, but it generally needs some coercing to get removed completely, so filtration and precipitation can be achieved without destroying filter paper and you are not redissolving your gold immediately after ppt.

Harold has given us a great trick, where an added button (of known weight) can be added while evaporating nitric off, it makes it go much quicker. Since nitric is being evaporated, and used to work on some more gold.

Hope this helps, awesome birds you have there as well! Thanks for sharing.
Topher


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## Phishin_ca (Jul 1, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> UncleBenBen said:
> 
> 
> > Right on! Looks like Purple of Cassius to me!!
> ...



I believe urea has fallen out of favor. I know of 2 commonly accepted methods. 
1. Sulfamic Acid (search for "Sulfamic Denox")
2. Drop a gold button of known weight into the solution. It must be large enough to use up the remaining nitric acid. (search for "harold nitric button denox")

Shawn


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## UncleBenBen (Jul 1, 2016)

it looks like Topher and phishin got it!

A little more about what Topher mentioned about the addition of HCl. Sometimes when adding the nitric (or nitrate for poor man's AR) you will get no reaction, or just a slight one. Always add more HCl at this point to make sure the reaction didn't stop because of a lack of HCl instead of the lack metals left to dissolve. Excess HCl won't cause problems like excess nitric will.

When Hoke speaks of evaporating(don't boil gold solutions) and adding HCl, that is one of the means of dealing with excess nitric. Doing as you are by adding small amounts of nitric will leave very little if any extra to deal with. Then all it takes is bit of sulfamic acid instead of hours and hours of evaporation.

The sulfamic acid reacts with any nitric left in solution to produce a bit of sulfuric acid, nitrous oxide gas, and water. The sulfuric, as the guys mentioned gives the added benefit of converting any lead to its insoluble sulfate to be filtered out prior to precipitating the gold.

Looks like you are picking it right up bird man! Keep it up. Soon you will be just as hooked and crazy as the rest of us! Bwahahaha!

Ben


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 1, 2016)

Bigolly it ain't rocket surgery!!! :lol: 
This was a bit of solution I dipped out for a test run. Looks like the other stuff I've seen. What do y'all think? Dropping the rest now. It may need one more AR treatment and a hcl was. Then I should be good to melt. I'll post a pick of the rest. When it settles and gets filterd!


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 1, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> it looks like Topher and phishin got it!
> 
> A little more about what Topher mentioned about the addition of HCl. Sometimes when adding the nitric (or nitrate for poor man's AR) you will get no reaction, or just a slight one. Always add more HCl at this point to make sure the reaction didn't stop because of a lack of HCl instead of the lack metals left to dissolve. Excess HCl won't cause problems like excess nitric will.
> 
> ...


 I don't know you but something tells me you were crazy befor you started.  
I know I am. I think I got it this time. Now if I can just replicate what I did over and over again.


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## Phishin_ca (Jul 1, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> UncleBenBen said:
> 
> 
> > it looks like Topher and phishin got it!
> ...



It may just be me, but I have been doing minuscule amounts of material over and over again. I learn something each time, and I get more confident. That or I am certifiable... Like Ben :lol: 

In all seriousness, I have produced a lot more waste than required and yielded far less than expected. The knowledge gained is worth more than anything to me, even if I never mess with it again! Precipitating gold and watching the brown powder melt into shiny gold is pretty awesome. 

Going to pick up 2 racks of decommissioned Sun servers and a SAN this weekend. Time to collect some more material!


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 1, 2016)

Phishin_ca said:


> myfalconry76 said:
> 
> 
> > UncleBenBen said:
> ...


I'm going to pick up another ten pound of ram in the mourning. The best thing is it's free. There's no one around here that deals with it and all the computer stores haul it to the dump. A few of them decided to let me have the stuff as long as I come get it. Ain't nothing Like free money. And your right it is a rewarding learning experiance. I will admit there was a long sigh of relief when I seen it precipitate to the bottom of the jar. Thank y'all for the help! Very greatful.


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## UncleBenBen (Jul 1, 2016)

Phishin_ca said:


> That or I am certifiable... Like Ben





myfalconry76 said:


> I don't know you but something tells me you were crazy befor you started.



Well, I did meet my wife at a psychiatric hospital! She was a nurse there, and I was doing some electric work. It worked out pretty well. I get my therapy for free now! :lol: :lol:

Edit: Whether I want it or not... :roll:  :lol:


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 1, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> Phishin_ca said:
> 
> 
> > That or I am certifiable... Like Ben
> ...


 Electrical work! Gotcha.


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 2, 2016)

Quick question, sorry!
But I have a container of the concentrate sufalmic acid tile cleaner from the hardware store. That today I realized I had it. Just for future reference will it work for removing exes nitric? I know its the same stuff, but is there anything in it that will hurt?


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## Phishin_ca (Jul 2, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> Quick question, sorry!
> But I have a container of the concentrate sufalmic acid tile cleaner from the hardware store. That today I realized I had it. Just for future reference will it work for removing exes nitric? I know its the same stuff, but is there anything in it that will hurt?



It should work fine. 
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20553


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jul 2, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> Quick question, sorry!
> But I have a container of the concentrate sufalmic acid tile cleaner from the hardware store. That today I realized I had it. Just for future reference will it work for removing exes nitric? I know its the same stuff, but is there anything in it that will hurt?



Is it the tub of it? Crystallized or is it an aqueous bottle?

I just went and bought two tubs from home depot and noticed that they had a couple liquid bottles, thought about trying it out, but i went with the tried and true crystal form. I figured it was best to stick with what i know works, and works well at that.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi//phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=23767

Thats another great thread where sulfamic has been covered in great detail. It's a good one.


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 2, 2016)

It's the tub! Ironically I moved all my building supplies. And sat it on some computer towers because I had no where left to put it. And just realized what it was. All the while I was thinging yesterday, I wish I had some sufalmic acid. Duh...


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 2, 2016)

So I got it all dropped, I think I may have lost a bit somewhere. I ended up with 3.14g. Of powder, I started out with 35 ceramic processors. One Pentium Pro, two other gold cap Pentium that were just a little smaller than the pro. One gold cap M somethin and the rest where Intel and AMD.
Dose this seem short or am I just wishful thinking?


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## nickvc (Jul 3, 2016)

No disrespect is meant by this comment but the smaller the amount of gold your working with the bigger potential loses you will incur, if you had 100 grams of refined gold powder the loses would probably be the same as you have now, this is allowing for good processing techniques.
The one point to remember is that so long as your testing and keeping all the items and solutions any loses will at some point be recoverable.


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 3, 2016)

nickvc said:


> No disrespect is meant by this comment but the smaller the amount of gold your working with the bigger potential loses you will incur, if you had 100 grams of refined gold powder the loses would probably be the same as you have now, this is allowing for good processing techniques.
> The one point to remember is that so long as your testing and keeping all the items and solutions any loses will at some point be recoverable.


 I keep everything.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 3, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> I keep everything.


Don't let it get out of hand. Set up a stock pot system and process your used solutions on a regular basis or you can find yourself buried in buckets of toxic waste.

Dave


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 3, 2016)

FrugalRefiner said:


> myfalconry76 said:
> 
> 
> > I keep everything.
> ...


Thank you for the advice Dave. I'm still working on getting a system built of some sort. To evaporate wastes to a powder or cake, after I double check for pm! I do have a stock pot. I've used about a half gallon of hcl and about 200ml of nitric so far on two projects. I'm not in over my head yet. And will try not to be! Once again thank you, for the advice! 8)


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## nickvc (Jul 4, 2016)

Daves advice as usual is spot on.
It's important to keep up on your wastes, they soon become a major headache if you don't, also it keeps any values you may have lost or missed in a more easily treated form, set your system up ASAP and keep it fed and moving so you don't have to spend precious weeks treating it all later, a little attention every time your in the lab is all it takes to avoid that loss of time and trouble.


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## upcyclist (Jul 5, 2016)

I'll vote for "don't let it get out of hand", too. I even adapted some of my processes to my habit of forgetting to turn off the bubbler in my "copper-dropper" bucket a day prior to moving that waste on to the next stage. Now I just have a settling bucket--the waste goes there, and is next up in the neutralization bucket after the copper has settled to the bottom.


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 8, 2016)

Well, it could have been worse. I got 6.58g on my very first refine! The smallest button my (first attempt) turned out to test around 18kt. My second the larger one did pass 24kt. I doubt it was of high purity. I ran both through AR. The one difference is I use sulfalmic on the second larger one to dnox the nitric and it probably got rid of any lead.


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## UncleBenBen (Jul 8, 2016)

Nice job bird man! I can't tell from the fuzz and glare, but it looks like a pipe on the larger button. That's a good sign.

It will only get better from here. Adopt good washing procedure on your gold powder. It makes a world of difference in the button. It's pretty neat to see how much cleaner the powder gets as it goes thru the washes. Keep it up!!

Ben


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 8, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> Nice job bird man! I can't tell from the fuzz and glare, but it looks like a pipe on the larger button. That's a good sign.
> 
> It will only get better from here. Adopt good washing procedure on your gold powder. It makes a world of difference in the button. It's pretty neat to see how much cleaner the powder gets as it goes thru the washes. Keep it up!!
> 
> Ben


 Thanks, I got entry more cp scrap to go through I should have another pile to start by the end of the week. And my phones camera sucks it's real shaky. Probably from the kids and I dropping it and getting thrown a cross the room.


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