# Gold filled incineration and questions



## Andrew W (May 6, 2008)

I've got this lot of gold filled that I'm wanting to refine, and I'm wondering if it would be beneficial to melt it down first, pour shot, and then part with nitric, or to just put it straight into AR (omitting those 1st 3 steps).

I've read a few posts about people putting it in AR alone; no incineration nor parting with nitric. I believe catfish has done this with good results, so I'm just wondering if its _that _necessary.

Some of these pieces are pretty dirty and oily, so I'm thinking that it would be a good idea; for *1)* it accomplishes incineration and *2)* it will make a homogeneous alloy - which would allow nitric to dissolve the base metals quicker (correct?).

Now, a question about incineration: I only have one melting dish at the moment that I use to melt the refined gold. Should I get another to use specifically for the incineration/premelt? Also, should I flux the dish first to keep the metal from sticking?

Ok now can I get a little info on pouring shot? I've read a post about it, but I can't seem to find it now. Do I just pour the molten metal into a bucket of swirling water? Does it need to be ice water? Should I pour it all at once or slowly? Is that the gist of it?

Appreciate it,
Andrew


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## Palladium (May 6, 2008)

Thought this may not be how you would want to pour your shot this gives a good example of the method. Video :arrow: http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=52dd41e7363ff1e74838031295dfcd52

Someone write me a small synopsis ( new topic post ) and i will include it in the forum book. :wink:


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## Harold_V (May 6, 2008)

Andrew W said:


> I've got this lot of gold filled that I'm wanting to refine, and I'm wondering if it would be beneficial to melt it down first, pour shot, and then part with nitric, or to just put it straight into AR (omitting those 1st 3 steps).


None of the above. No one in their right mind melts gold filled unless it is used as the added metal for inquartation. It lowers the gold content such that the gold comes out bordering on colloidal. It takes for ever to settle, often with the result of losing some of the values. 



> I've read a few posts about people putting it in AR alone; no incineration nor parting with nitric. I believe catfish has done this with good results, so I'm just wondering if its _that _necessary.


Smart people don't process such low quality gold using AR. AR is not a recovery method, it's a purifying method, with only a few exceptions. One of the immediate problems with the use of AR with base metals is that you risk precipitating some of your values if the acid level subsides before you've dissolved all of the base metals. It may be discarded when you filter, assuming you don't realize what you've done. In addition, the gold that precipitates from such a dirty solution is generally of poor quality, poor enough that even a hard washing won't bring the quality up to standards. If you think about it, there are NO benefits to processing by this method-----it's usually the things passed on by well meaning people that don't have a clue about refining. 



> Some of these pieces are pretty dirty and oily, so I'm thinking that it would be a good idea; for *1)* it accomplishes incineration and *2)* it will make a homogeneous alloy - which would allow nitric to dissolve the base metals quicker (correct?).


No----not correct. The incineration I support 100%-----but do not melt the gold filled material. Why should you? There are no benefits. Gold filled material will process with nitric acid well after being incinerated to remove unwanted substances. It works all the faster when heated. 



> Now, a question about incineration: I only have one melting dish at the moment that I use to melt the refined gold. Should I get another to use specifically for the incineration/premelt? Also, should I flux the dish first to keep the metal from sticking?


You don't use melting dishes for incineration. An old stainless fry pan, purchased from a Goodwill store, serves perfectly well. You can heat the pan from below, over a gas hot plate, or simply place your pieces in the pan and pass a torch over them. Even a simple propane torch will suffice. Remember, all you want to do is get the pieces up to a dull red heat, enough to ignite carbon. Once it's gone, the job is done. AVOID melting. Also-------do NOT melt anything but pure gold in the dish you use for melting the recovered gold powder. Otherwise you're contaminating the recovered gold. 



> Ok now can I get a little info on pouring shot? I've read a post about it, but I can't seem to find it now. Do I just pour the molten metal into a bucket of swirling water? Does it need to be ice water? Should I pour it all at once or slowly? Is that the gist of it?


Shot is prepared by drizzling gold through an orifice, not by pouring from a dish. That gives you cornflakes, as I like to call the resulting metal. When you're ready to pour shot, why don't you bring up the subject again? 

If you mean shot from inquarting, then pouring over the lip of a melting dish, into a deep container of water (don't use a plastic bucket, or glass of any type works well. It should be a metallic container, to avoid breaking when molten gold hits the bottom, as it occasionally does).

You need to read Hoke's book in the worst way! You are poorlly advised at this stage of the game. 

Harold


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## Andrew W (May 6, 2008)

Palladium, thanks for the video! Very interesting.

Harold, thank you for your insight. It's cleared up a few things for me.

I am in the process of reading Hoke's book, and I've found the chapter concerning gold filled. Should I follow these instructions to a T?

In the final washing of the gold powder, she says to wash with sodium hydroxide to dissolve any residual lead sulfate. Would ammonia work for this?


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## Harold_V (May 6, 2008)

Andrew W said:


> I am in the process of reading Hoke's book, and I've found the chapter concerning gold filled. Should I follow these instructions to a T?


It has been well over 12 years since I last looked at Hoke's book, and my copy is in storage, so I am unable to say with certainty that you should follow the instructions. What I proposed works, that I can assure you. 



> In the final washing of the gold powder, she says to wash with sodium hydroxide to dissolve any residual lead sulfate. Would ammonia work for this?


If you followed proper procedure, there should be NO lead sulfate present. When you're evaporating your gold chloride solution, a few drops of sulfuric acid should have been introduced. That would have precipitated any traces of lead as lead sulfate. To insure removal, the gold chloride solution created from the dissolved solids should be absolutely clear of flocculance before precipitation, even if it requires more than one pass through the filter. 

The problems with filtration can be controlled easily by incinerating the solids that remain after the initial nitric/water digest. Everything is gathered in a filter, incinerated to a dull red heat, then given a boil in HCl and water. That should leave solids that process effortlessly.

I don't think you'll find reference to that process in Hoke's book----it is an operation I tried when I had difficulty, and found it to be quite useful. 

I never did any washes with sodium hydroxide, and had no problems with lead. I'd suggest one avoids the use unless absolutely necessary. If it gets splashed in your eyes, the chance of blindness is quite real. 

Harold


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## Palladium (May 6, 2008)

Harold the download of Hoke in my sig line is only like 1 or 2 megs.
Get you a copy. :wink:


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## Harold_V (May 6, 2008)

Thanks, Ralph. I'll likely do so in good time, but right now I'm spread too thin to read the book, even if it was in my possession. 

I put forth an effort some time ago to find my copy, but had no luck. We have so many boxes stored it would take hours to go through them as required. On the positive side, I did find a couple things related to refining, so the time was well spent. 

I keep trusting to memory, and appreciate anyone that can correct anything I post that is not correct. As I've aged, my memory isn't what it used to be. 

Harold


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