# Increasing the concentration of 30% Sulfuric Acid



## w0lvez (Jan 5, 2011)

Is it possible to make a pure sulfuric acid by distilling the one used in the battery? What type of distillation is needed for this?


----------



## Harold_V (Jan 5, 2011)

w0lvez said:


> Is it possible to make a pure sulfuric acid by distilling the one used in the battery? What type of distillation is needed for this?


Lazersteve has discussed this topic endlessly. One evaporates sulfuric acid to concentrate---no distillation is required. 

Harold


----------



## w0lvez (Jan 5, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> Lazersteve has discussed this topic endlessly. One evaporates sulfuric acid to concentrate---no distillation is required.



Yes, I already done that but the it seems like nothing happened. Is there any other liquid used in 12v battery? I'm not sure if it's even sulfuric acid because there is no marking on the bottle. I bought it from a store that sells battery. They call it battery acid but there are few others call it as distilled. I live in a country with too many idiots. After going to few all stores that sells battery, they all don't know what sulfuric acid is.


----------



## Claudie (Jan 5, 2011)

What is the PH level of the liquid you have purchased?


----------



## w0lvez (Jan 5, 2011)

Claudie said:


> What is the PH level of the liquid you have purchased?



The pH is lower than 6. The test kit I have can only measure minimum pH 6 and 8.8 is the max.


----------



## butcher (Jan 6, 2011)

distilled water is used in battery's
32% sulfuric acid density 1.25-1.28 has very acidic PH, closer to PH 1.
to get 98% you would need to evaporate about 2/3 of solution off as mostly H2O, when white fumes of SO2 gas form it is as concentrated as possible.
you can also test specific gravity, sulfuric acid is heavier than water, conentration of sulfuric to water content can be determined by specific gravity.
did you get distilled water?


----------



## Claudie (Jan 6, 2011)

I wondered if he may have distilled water is why I asked about the PH level. He also stated that the container had no markings, I would think Sulfuric acid would be labeled as such.
Distilled water could be around 6 while Sulfuric acid would be lower.


----------



## w0lvez (Jan 7, 2011)

I bought another from a different store who said it's distilled. The pH level is 7 so it is really distilled. Is car battery a Sulfuric Acid generator? From distilled water it turns sulfuric? :?: :?:

The first one I bought is sulfuric acid after all but a very weak one. More or less 5% because 5 ml weights 6 grams. :mrgreen:


----------



## eeTHr (Jan 7, 2011)

w0lvez---

By "distilled," they are referring to _distilled water._ Distilled water is used in batteries to avoid fouling the battery with impurities.

In other words, they sold you water.


----------



## butcher (Jan 7, 2011)

battery acid will not be much less than 30% sulfuric acid usually 32-35% H2SO4.
the first one I suspect is also just water not acid, take a small portion and drop some baking soda on it no reaction just water but if foaming reaction acid.

depending where you are they may sell concentrated sulfuric acid as pipe sink drain cleaner, caustic soda (lye) (sodium hydroxide is also a drain cleaner (the opposite of an acid, a very strong base.


----------



## w0lvez (Jan 9, 2011)

butcher said:


> the first one I suspect is also just water not acid, take a small portion and drop some baking soda on it no reaction just water but if foaming reaction acid.
> 
> depending where you are they may sell concentrated sulfuric acid as pipe sink drain cleaner, caustic soda (lye) (sodium hydroxide is also a drain cleaner (the opposite of an acid, a very strong base.



All drain cleaner here is Caustic Soda.

I collected the liquid in the battery and replace it with distilled. The liquid collected was acid. I first charge the battery before testing it. Yes, it's working. I first doubt using pure distilled will not work because there is no electrolyte. By charging the battery electrolyte is being produced. If the battery is discharged the concentration goes down. If I'm not mistaken by removing the weak acid in the battery adding sulfuric acid brings the power back without charging. :roll: :roll: 

I'll try to make pure sulfuric acid by overcharging it. Without the cap I don't think explosion is possible. For safety reasons I will do it outside and 500m away from it :twisted: :twisted: :evil: 
*Car Battery generates sulfuric acid*. Myth Confirmed


----------



## qst42know (Jan 9, 2011)

If you only added water, my guess is you just ruined your battery, you just don't know it yet.

There is enough porous material in a battery to retain some acid and act as a weak electrolyte. You didn't create additional acid you converted it with electricity from existing sulfur compounds.

You may be able to save this battery if you replace the fluid with electrolyte of the proper strength.


----------



## w0lvez (Jan 9, 2011)

qst42know said:


> If you only added water, my guess is you just ruined your battery, you just don't know it yet.
> 
> You may be able to save this battery if you replace the fluid with electrolyte of the proper strength.



Wrong guess, I already did it and it's working fine. According to a lot of sites using pure distilled water is the right way. :shock:


----------



## Claudie (Jan 9, 2011)

By stating *"Car Battery generates sulfuric acid. Myth Confirmed"* you have confirmed that it is a myth, and I think you're right. :|


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 9, 2011)

w0lvez said:


> qst42know said:
> 
> 
> > If you only added water, my guess is you just ruined your battery, you just don't know it yet.
> ...



If you will go back and look at your sites again you might find that when replacing the water in a battery that has lost some of it electrolyte you are supposed to use distilled water to replenish the fluid. If you have a brand new battery that you are just putting into service you use diluted sulfuric acid and not just distilled water. The use of distilled water is because or impurities in regular tap water.


----------



## qst42know (Jan 9, 2011)

w0lvez said:


> qst42know said:
> 
> 
> > If you only added water, my guess is you just ruined your battery, you just don't know it yet.
> ...




You lose water to evaporation it must be replaced. If you removed fluid to replace with only water you screwed up.


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 9, 2011)

He will find out the hard way if he is in the cold weather and the battery freezes and busts.


----------



## eeTHr (Jan 9, 2011)

w0lvez---

I'm sorry if it seems like I mislead you about the distilled water. I assumed that you had a basic knowledge of the lead-acid type of batteries that regular cars use.

The liquid inside is supposed to be about 33% sulfuric acid, and the rest is distilled water.

During normal use of the car, the _water_ will evaporate over time, and needs to be added back in, to maintain the correct percent of dilution, and to keep the battery plates covered in the electrolyte solution.

The sulfuric acid has such a high boiling point that it does _not_ normally evaporate over the life span of the battery, and should never need replenishing.

For to replace the evaporated water, though, distilled water should be used. It seems that this is what the people at the battery store thought you wanted.

In the U.S., it is fairly common to buy car batteries without any liquid inside, and you put the 33% sulfuric into it before installing it in your car or motorcycle.

Also, after long use, the lead plates dissolve somewhat, and that can develop sediment on the bottom which can build up until it shorts out the lead plates. I have heard that some people empty the electrolyte out of the battery and flush it out, then put in fresh electrolyte, and that sometimes works to extend the life of the battery, if there is enough surface area left of the lead plates.

So auto parts stores here sell the 33% sulfuric electrolyte solution for car batteries.

I hope that gives you a better picture of what we are all talking about.

P.S. If you would put a real place in the "Location" field of your personal information, maybe someone from your area could tell you where to get the things you need.


----------



## butcher (Jan 9, 2011)

In your battery with low sulfuric content, all you will do by overcharging it is boil off the water you put in as hydrogen gas, the over charging will split the water to hydrogen, hydrogen will vapor off at the cathode plates.

w0lvez, if you do not want to have to buy another battery, you need to replace the sulfuric acid in the water.

sulfuric acid is very common byproduct of inceneration of pyritic ore, or burning coal, I do not know what country you are in but I would think most all countrys it should be fairly easy to get, company's who generated sulfuric from their scrubbers were looking hard for way's to get rid of this acid byproduct.

sulfur is also very common, a person could make their own sulfuric acid from that, I would go to all that trouble before I destroyed the battery I needed for transportation (it is 30 miles to town were I work, and I sure would hate to be walkin to work).


----------



## Harold_V (Jan 10, 2011)

w0lvez said:


> Wrong guess, I already did it and it's working fine. According to a lot of sites using pure distilled water is the right way. :shock:


Wrong! It's the right way to top off a battery that has lost electrolyte to evaporation or electrolysys---but *not when the sulfuric acid has been removed*. Batteries must have a given specific gravity in order to function as they are intended. If the electrolyte in your battery isn't correct, it won't be long until you understand that perfectly well. If you live where it freezes, you're going to get baptism by fire. Batteries that are low on charge or deficient in acid tend to freeze. Once that happens, it's toast. 

Harold


----------



## eeTHr (Jan 10, 2011)

w0lvez---

In the beginning, you could have just Googled, "how a car battery works," or "how battery acid works," or "what is battery acid?"

So far, you have only three things to deal with in understanding the concepts which people have been trying to help you with: 1. Car battery, 2. Sulfuric acid, and 3. Distilled water.

You seemed to have misconceptions about _all three!_

Whatever the purpose for obtaining concentrated sulfuric is that you have in mind, I hope you can understand why it could appear to be evident that you are probably a serious injury just waiting to happen.

If you continue to hold, what seems to be, a contrary attitude toward those trying to help you, and to _appear_ to be either lazily shortsighted in doing some of your own research, or have a lack of ability to fully understand what research you do; then my guess is, you will find that people will hesitate to feed you any information at all, with the thought that it may turn out to be disastrous for you and those around you.

I hope I am mistaken about this.


----------



## Harold_V (Jan 11, 2011)

eeTHr said:


> I hope I am mistaken about this.


Trust me---you're not mistaken. If there's anything I won't tolerate its an individual that has no clue, asking for advice, then ignoring what he is told. Such individuals are generally not looking for advice, but support for less than wise decisions they have made, and are prone to defending their stupidity by insisting they are right instead of capitalizing on the often hard earned knowledge they have been handed by others. People of that ilk will receive nothing from me in the future, and if they persist in being the morons they appear to be, I'll see to it personally that their stay here is short. Very short, indeed!

I just went through this (privately, via PM's) with a reader (who will remain unmentioned) this weekend. One peep from him that isn't acceptable and he's gone from the forum. None of us need tolerate morons that think they have answers when they don't have a clue and prefer to kill the messenger. He's lucky it was by PM. He'd have been banned immediately had he posted any of his asinine comments publicly. I refuse to allow anyone to disrupt the forum as that would have. 

Harold


----------



## w0lvez (Jan 27, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> Wrong! It's the right way to top off a battery that has lost electrolyte to evaporation or electrolysys---but *not when the sulfuric acid has been removed*. Batteries must have a given specific gravity in order to function as they are intended. If the electrolyte in your battery isn't correct, it won't be long until you understand that perfectly well. If you live where it freezes, you're going to get baptism by fire. Batteries that are low on charge or deficient in acid tend to freeze. Once that happens, it's toast.
> 
> Harold



In the discharged state both electrodes turn into lead(II) sulfate (PbSO4) and the electrolyte loses its dissolved sulfuric acid and becomes primarily water. It is relatively simple to determine the state of charge by merely measuring the specific gravity (S.G.) of the electrolyte, the S.G. falling as the battery discharges.

I think using distilled water will shorten the life of the battery. It also breaks a chemistry safety rule *"Always Add Acid to water not water to acid"*



eeTHr said:


> w0lvez---
> 
> In the beginning, you could have just Googled, "how a car battery works," or "how battery acid works," or "what is battery acid?"
> 
> ...



I think your the one who don't fully understand it.If your sulfuric acid is 30% what do you think is the 70% of it?


----------



## qst42know (Jan 27, 2011)

One last time.

Read the whole thing but pay close attention to this paragraph.



> *Sulfation of Batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 for a 12v battery, or 6.2 for a 6 volt battery. Sulfation hardens on the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate Volts and Amps.



And this.



> Hydrometer readings should not vary more than .05 differences between cells.





> •Low electrolyte level - battery plates exposed to air will immediately sulfate.



The link to read the whole thing.

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html


----------



## w0lvez (Jan 29, 2011)

qst42know said:


> One last time.
> 
> Read the whole thing but pay close attention to this paragraph.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure but I think that only happens if charging because they even repair broken battery. I saw a lot of open battery when I bought graphite electrode. 
I think they are collecting rain water, I wonder if it's sulfuric?

It won't happen anyway because the alligator clip is melting. It's a lot easier by heating but when it reaches below 50ml out of 100ml it looks like it's stuck there. I'm only using a heating device with fix heat that is used for coffee. Do 98% fumes?


----------



## lazersteve (Jan 29, 2011)

A coffee burner will not get hot enough to fully concentrate battery acid (35% H2SO4) to concentrated 98% sulfuric acid.

Check the Data section for the boiling point of sulfuric acid at various concentrations, the temperature is about 3-5 times what a coffee warmer will get too.

Steve


----------



## w0lvez (Jan 30, 2011)

Maybe the wind strong make it evaporate after leaving overnight. 

It leaves a water line so it appears it's not moving but it all evaporated leaving white crystals. What was that white crystal?


----------



## Palladium (Jan 30, 2011)

Lead(II) sulfate


----------



## w0lvez (Jan 30, 2011)

Using Induction cooker do I need to put oil on the pan or it's ok to put the beaker directly on dry pan? :?:


----------



## butcher (Jan 30, 2011)

sulfuric can be nasty hot and concentrated, a catch basin can help from loosing acid should you break a vessel, a sand bath can help to keep thermal shock down to minimum, also how fast you heat or cool, always give glass time to expand or contract with slow change of temperature.


----------



## niteliteone (Dec 13, 2011)

w0lvez said:


> By charging the battery electrolyte is being produced. If the battery is discharged the concentration goes down. If I'm not mistaken by removing the weak acid in the battery adding sulfuric acid brings the power back without charging. :roll: :roll:
> 
> I'll try to make pure sulfuric acid by overcharging it. Without the cap I don't think explosion is possible. For safety reasons I will do it outside and 500m away from it :twisted: :twisted: :evil:
> *Car Battery generates sulfuric acid*. Myth Confirmed




I'm sorry but.
Are some people really this smart. :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## butcher (Dec 14, 2011)

niteliteone, 
Just because someone has trouble understanding something has nothing to do with his intelligence, maybe we are just not explaining it to him in the way he can understand, he may need some help to understanding the chemistry of what is happening in terms where he can grasp it, these concepts that we understand may be foreign to him.

W0lvez, may be very intelligent in his own environment, and we (if were in that environment) may be the ones asking Him for help, and looking like fools because we do not understand what he does.

Lets treat each other with respect and understanding, trying to look at the problem standing in his shoes, many here have more education or more experience in one field or another than I have, sometimes I have a hard time understanding what they are saying (I do not speak their language (chemistry or whatever), it is not that I am less intelligent that I may not understand, but may be that I have not the experience in life that they have had, but if these smart people come to me to learn what I know and what I understand and I tried to teach them these same smart people would be just lost in the woods.

Also if someone cannot grasp something that is dangerous to him we should discourage its use, if we cannot help him to understand, not make fun of him.


----------



## niteliteone (Dec 14, 2011)

I do apologize.
I just wish that people knew their limits and would not play with things that can hurt/kill them until they had a better knowledge of what they are doing.

Tom C.


----------



## butcher (Dec 15, 2011)

Your a big man Tom C,
I bet we can help W0lvez, and he can help us.


----------

