# AP time reduction ?



## tamerakshar (Jan 15, 2009)

this question is basically for Steve, but others are welcome;
i read this while searching "Tin acts as a catalyst when oxygen is in solution and helps accelerate chemical attack", so can we apply this to the AP process to reduce time of reaction???????
thx


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## Harold_V (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm not Steve, but this I can tell you. Keep tin out of your processes as much as is possible. It complicates filtration. Reserve it for testing (stannous chloride), and nothing more.

Harold


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## tamerakshar (Jan 15, 2009)

okey dokey, by the way regarding the post refering this page:
http://www.bodyworkzsupply.com
the mentioned SN is not Tin it's Sodium Nitrates, just read their abbreviations


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## butcher (Jan 16, 2009)

if you added sodium nitrate it would not be acid peroxide (used to attack only base metals primarily), but would become a homade Aqua regia, and then would attack gold along with base metals,.


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## tamerakshar (Jan 16, 2009)

hey butcher, i'm talking about another post where other members were talking about SN in water will attack solder to free out components and they thought SN is tin while it was an abbreviation for sodium nitrate


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## tamerakshar (Jan 16, 2009)

Steve, where are you ?


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## lazersteve (Jan 16, 2009)

Tamer,

Sorry for the delay response, things have been hectic at work for me lately.


Assuming you are asking about tin plus oxygen as a solvent for solder, I would have to agree with Harold don't add any tin to your reaction solutions due to the difficulties in removing tin from the products. Whether it would work or not would have to be determined experimentally. Either way it's probably not a good idea in refining or recovery.

If you are asking about Sodium Nitrate as a reagent you will need to add an acid to it plus some heat to get things moving. Expect NOx fumes (red brown nitrogen oxides) and work safely. Your solution will attack all precious metals except silver which will be converted to silver chloride and tend to slow or even halt the reaction if in a high alloy form (as with some lead free solders). Base metals will be dissolved preferentially to precious metals in this reaction. Any gold dissolved in the initial reaction will be cemented out by the accumulation of base metals in the solution.

All in all solely for the purpose of removing solder I would not use either method.

Steve


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## Platdigger (Jan 16, 2009)

Or if you want to add your sodium nitrate to sulfuric acid, this will make a weak form of nitric for disolving base metals.

Randy


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## tamerakshar (Jan 16, 2009)

sorry Platdigger, but your reply seems a little in-appropriate !!!!!


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## tamerakshar (Jan 17, 2009)

hey guys, why you all got me wrong except for Harold.
i'm asking about adding tin to the ACID PEROXIDE mixture to make it fast, then i remembered that other post about removing solder ( a complete different prcoess stage of refining)
the guy who post it thought SN is Tin, while actually it was Sodium Nitrates.
thx all


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## Oz (Jan 17, 2009)

Tamerakshar,

Although Platdigger’s reply was not the “exact” answer to your question (yes you were very specific) but it does clarify for others that may be confused by the nitrates mentioned above as well as Aqua Regia. Many on this forum reply to others stating something that would be obvious to the person asking the question just so others can learn from it where it may not have been obvious to someone new to refining. 

You have 5 posts to your name on this forum, yet for all I know you are a college educated analytical chemist. Perhaps you found the information inappropriate, but if you are well educated in chemistry it did you no harm to hear something you already knew, but keep in mind that the forum is for everyone’s benefit not one individual. 

Be slow to criticize Platdigger giving good 1 line information.

I think that most understand your question but they are not replying for your benefit only.

As to your question, Harold and Steve told you that tin in solution can cause a mess when you have to filter. If you still have questions on using tin you may need to clarify what you are asking.


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## Lou (Jan 17, 2009)

Oz said:


> As to your question, Harold and Steve told you that tin is a mess in HCl when you have to filter. If you still have questions on using tin you may need to clarify what you are asking.




Actually, it's tin with conc. nitric acid that gives the most problems (it forms an intractable gel).


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## Oz (Jan 17, 2009)

Thank you for the correction Lou. I will also edit my post to avoid misinformation.


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## tamerakshar (Jan 20, 2009)

Oz, thx for your reply but,
i've been a member here for at least 6 months and i've never thought to post until i gave up searching here and googling.
lets say i read most of the guides, watched videos and searched the whole forum before thinking to post.
the post i made was a suggestion.
finally my words for platdigger was a very polite reply for what he said (if you noticed, he edited his post !!!!!)
and you know what, i've tonnes of scrap ready for refining but i'm waiting to get my hand on every little piece of info. to get a good, cheap, less toxic results from the first batch.
®TeE ThE EdE®


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## Oz (Jan 20, 2009)

Tamerakshar,

I am glad to see you did not take my comments too harshly. I by no means meant to suggest that you posted something without thought and research first, I am probably more guilty of that. 

My only intent was to point out that Platdigger’s post had merit in the context it was written in and perhaps gave clarification for others that was not needed for you. Much as I wrote in reply recently to a tool maker of all people on how to use a lathe as a milling machine. He obviously did not need that information but it would clarify and perhaps help others.

I do not have all the answers and welcome others corrections of my posts. As you can see I needed to edit mine after Lou pointed out a mistake I made that I should well know better considering how much stannous I have made.

No hard feelings I hope.


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