# Greenish precpitate in AR



## Roj (Feb 24, 2017)

Hello 
I run pulverised ceramic cpus in AR . When I decant the solution I found very fine powder like bright green all 9ver the ceramic . Any idea what is that ?


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## Geo (Feb 24, 2017)

Depends on what you put into it. It could be white silver chloride that is stained with the AR solution.


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## Palladium (Feb 24, 2017)

Its got some green to it, but it also has some bright yellow to it. Since it's cpu's i would venture to guess tungsten oxide.


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## Roj (Feb 24, 2017)

It's actually exactly looks like the picture you posted palladium. How can I get rid of it ?


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## Virothisk (Feb 24, 2017)

If you hit it with AR the gold would be in solution. Id filter the solids a couple of times. Then precipitate. Then refine it.

V


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## Roj (Feb 24, 2017)

Filtering and rinsing this powder is horrible! I will give it try and keep you updated .


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## patnor1011 (Feb 24, 2017)

Settle, decant, rinse.... repeat few times.


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## Roj (Feb 26, 2017)

Rinsing and filtering 150lbs is a lot of fun !
BTW this were already processed with AR . 
This is my second extraction. It test positive for gold , so there is actually gold inside the ceramics. I will post the yiled when I am done .


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## anachronism (Feb 27, 2017)

If you are processing crushed pre leached ceramics then I would agree with Ralph that this is tungsten based residue. 

I look forwards to your results as they will help to close a discussion about gold inside ceramics that has been going on for years. Personally I believe that you will get gold. That given, knowing which particular chips contained the gold is a different exercise altogether. 

To answer your main point. Look up polypropylene filter cloths. They could help you a great deal.

All the best.

Jon


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## frank-20011 (Feb 27, 2017)

hello,

sorry i didn't understand:

"I look forwards to your results as they will help to close a discussion about gold inside ceramics that has been going on for years. Personally I believe that you will get gold."

was the discussions background the particle size of crushed cpu's? (better to pulverise them than only crush em?)

filtering of the sludge into a frit (don't know if it's the right word, in german we say "FRITTE") by vacuum isn't possible?

regards, frank!


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## anachronism (Feb 27, 2017)

Hi Frank

There has been an ongoing debate for years as to whether there are gold bonding wires within the ceramic matrix of these processors. That's what I was referring to.

Jon


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## g_axelsson (Feb 27, 2017)

If it is pulverized fresh CPU:s then it won't say anything about any gold inside the ceramic body.

I thought that this question was decided several years ago.

I'm also so sure of how ceramic CPU:s are made so I can send ceramic bodies to anyone that want to test the theory, but you have to pay for the shipping. Currently I have little under a kilo of leached ceramic cpu:s but there will be more later in the spring.
I like to leach the cpu:s whole so I get the undamaged die.

Göran


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## nickvc (Feb 28, 2017)

Roj I think is processing ceramics that have already been through the recovery process, he was the member who was asking to buy them in quantity, if this is correct then either there are wires inside some of them or the ceramic itself absorbs some pregnant solution.
Goran if you crushed up some of yours and re ran them perhaps you could find out the truth, from the price the OP was offering for processed CPUs he only needs to find 0.1 gram of gold per kilo to cover costs and double his outlay !


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## anachronism (Feb 28, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> If it is pulverized fresh CPU:s then it won't say anything about any gold inside the ceramic body.
> 
> I thought that this question was decided several years ago.
> 
> ...



Hi Goran

It was never decided in a full test, it was merely debated with differing points of view posited. As such I'm glad someone is going through the motions!  

Jon


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## g_axelsson (Feb 28, 2017)

My bad, I read the original post and not the one later down. Yeah, it will say something at least.

I don't have a suitable equipment at the moment to crush the ceramic bodies into a fine powder so the offer still stands, anyone that wants my leftover ceramics can have them for postage only. Only condition is that the result is reported to the forum.

Göran


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## snoman701 (Feb 28, 2017)

I'll give it a try if postage isn't tooooo bad. 

What do you do with your dies? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## g_axelsson (Feb 28, 2017)

Postage for 1 kilo to USA is $15, still interested?

What I do with the dies... well, I'm a collector and I like to look at electronics in my microscope. There also are people that likes to make pictures of open dies. It is also a source of almost pure silicon.
Right now I don't know what to do with it but I'm just hanging on to then just for fun... and there was someone looking for dies to make mosaic from them I think (edit... that was you). There might be a market for them somewhere.

Anyhow, it's easy to see when the leaching is done as the die falls off the ceramics.

Göran


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## snoman701 (Feb 28, 2017)

Yup...I'll send $$ to try the ceramics. 
I think there was someone else saving dies as well. I pull mine with solder still on them. Want to get back to metalsmithing soon. I'm going to put some jewelry together at some point. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## g_axelsson (Feb 28, 2017)

PM sent to snoman.

Göran


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## nickvc (Feb 28, 2017)

My view...
They could well be like jewellery sweeps, if you get it right you extract 90 percent of the gold on the first pass, if you get it wrong a lot less, some definitive data would be good to see if there is any gold left after a proper extraction, that leaves the possibility that either there are gold wires or that the process isn't perfect to extract all the values or refiners are not getting all the values due to other reasons.
Do the acids react with the ceramic to make it possible for it to absorb values ?


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## anachronism (Mar 1, 2017)

nickvc said:


> My view...
> 
> Do the acids react with the ceramic to make it possible for it to absorb values ?



Ha! There's a Pandora's box you could open right now mate.


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## nickvc (Mar 1, 2017)

anachronism said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> > My view...
> ...



Well it's always good to open up a debate on whether members are getting all the values they could from their hard won or paid for scrap :shock:


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## Roj (Mar 9, 2017)

Hello everyone so after long 2 weeks filtering and decanting. Finally results are about 35 gram of pure gold . It's was fun experience but I don't think it was worth the time and effort I put In it .now that been said I have no idea and can accurately assume it was the gold wires inside the ceramics or or was it the left over gold traces all over the 150lbs . But one thing for sure I will not be doing this again :mrgreen: . But it was fun experience.


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## Roj (Mar 9, 2017)

Also I am sure there is still gold left . Because it's almost impossible to get all the value from pulverised ceramic powder.specially the tungsten powder it's horrible to rinse .


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## anachronism (Mar 9, 2017)

Hang on Roj. Do I read this right? You got 35g of gold from 150 pounds of pre processed processors that you ground up?

Jon


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## 4metals (Mar 9, 2017)

Let me summarize what I think was said here.

35 grams recovered = 35/31.103= 1.125 T.O.

150 lbs x 14.583 = 2,187.45 T.O. starting weight

1.125 T.O. / 2,187.45 T.O. = 0.00051 troy oz per [stt]pound[/stt] whoops :mrgreen: Troy oz

or; [stt]0.00000514[/stt] % yield. double whoops :mrgreen: :mrgreen: .0514%

Not trash but not a candidate for aqua regia.


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## g_axelsson (Mar 9, 2017)

4metals said:


> Let me summarize what I think was said here.
> 
> 35 grams recovered = 35/31.103= 1.125 T.O.
> 
> ...


Your numbers are not reasonable, 4metals... as I prefer metric I'll ignore the troys...  
0.00000514% = 0.0514 grams per ton. He got 35g from 0.075 ton.

You went the wrong way when going to percent and mixed up the units.


> 1.125 T.O. / 2,187.45 T.O. = 0.00051 troy oz gold per troy oz feed stock
> = 0.051 % yield



This must be the first time I have corrected you. :wink: 

Göran


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## 4metals (Mar 9, 2017)

Hmm so much for air math, next time I break out the calculator. 

the 14.583 is to convert avoirdupois pounds to troy ounces but you are correct, metric is way better.


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## Roj (Mar 9, 2017)

anachronism said:


> Hang on Roj. Do I read this right? You got 35g of gold from 150 pounds of pre processed processors that you ground up?
> 
> Jon



Thats right .


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## Roj (Mar 9, 2017)

Filtering stages . Nightmare lol


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## anachronism (Mar 10, 2017)

Thanks Roj. Frankly I'm impressed. 

There's ways to improve that filtering process but given you paid $2 per pound, if you can reduce the time taken and improve efficiency then I think it's a worthwhile venture. Especially if you have multiple jobs going at the same time. What do you think of it on that basis? 

I'd also be interested to see what silver you got. 

Jon


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## kurtak (Mar 10, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> 4metals said:
> 
> 
> > Let me summarize what I think was said here.
> ...



:shock: that's a lot of math

35 grams (recovered Au) divided by 150 lb (starting material) = .23 grams per pound :mrgreen: 

But the real question still is --- is the gold coming from "inside" the ceramic - or is it gold left over from incomplete processing in the first place (gold plating under silicon dies etc.)

Roj - where there ceramics that still had the silicon die struck to them :?: 

It would be interesting to see an actual fire assay done on the ceramic AFTER they are run to "completion"

One thing I am (relatively) sure of is that there are no gold "bonding wires" in the ceramic - but that does not mean gold is not applied/used in some other way "inside" the ceramic

As already pointed out - filtering "pulverized" ceramic is a "nightmare" :!: :!: :!: 

If it turns out there actually is gold "inside" the ceramic I think I would be inclined to go with smelting (after pulverizing the ceramic) rather then wet chemistry 

The other question would be - if there is gold inside the ceramic - is it in "all" types ceramic CPUs - or - just some types :?: 

Kurt


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## nickvc (Mar 10, 2017)

As you have recovered 35 grams so far that shows a return of 28 grams over cost less chemicals and time or $1100, that's not bad pocket money, there are ways to speed up certain things like filtering.
The question still remains where does the gold come from?


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## 4metals (Mar 10, 2017)

Over the years I have learned some of the best (albeit unexpected) yields come from refiners processing material they have no business processing.


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## Roj (Mar 12, 2017)

I actually do this as a side business as my main income comes from another business . I have attached some pics of the already processed ceramics before I pulverised it. I did not buy this 150lbs actually were what i processed past 3 years and been putting them on the side  . They were mixed models mostly intel 468 / pentium pro / some AMD / Alpha / HP . pretty much all high yield older ceramics . Btw I still belive I have gold left there . 
I did not recover the silver or any other PM beside gold .
I want to thank each and everyone in this awesome forum . Because without your knowledge and information you make it available to all I wouldn't be able to do any of this.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 12, 2017)

If I would have to guess where that gold you recovered came from I would rather guess that it came from dried out AR or metal salts deposited on remnants of undissolved metals than any wiring or printing inside ceramic package. 
These metal salts are quite visible on your feedstock and there is quite a lot of it.


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