# Silver Powder in Nitric Acid



## metatp (Apr 27, 2009)

Hi. Pardon my ignorance as I am very new to refining silver, but I did read a lot about it in this forum and elsewhere on the web. My question is around precautions with adding silver powder to my nitric acid solution. I saw the video and how the silver nugget (with other metal in it) started to bubble right away when added to the nitric acid. If I add a silver powder, with all that extra surface area, would the reaction be so quick that a lot of nitric oxide fumes will be generated? 

Thanks,
Tom


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## Oz (Apr 27, 2009)

Yes it will Tom. If you have 70% nitric dilute it with distilled water (no chlorides) and the extra H2O helps absorb some of your NO2 back into solution to dissolve more silver. Start by adding just a pinch of your powdered silver to your diluted nitric to get a feel of how reactive it is. Due this in a fume hood or outside as you really shouldn’t breath the vapors.


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## metatp (Apr 27, 2009)

Thanks. That is what I thought based on chemistry I took a long time ago in college. I plan to dulite the nitric acid to about 30-35%, and testing small amounts at first until I understand the reaction better.


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## metatp (May 6, 2009)

Well, it appears that the advise that was given to me about removing any potential tin that I might have missed has been lost. I know I was supposed to use HCL, but I think I was supposed to heat it. I now have some HCL. Can someone please help with the best way to remove any tin powder in my silver powder? There should be very little (less than 1 oz in the 88 oz I have).

Also, can HCL be used to remove borax flux from melted silver or will I need to get sulfuric acid?


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## peter i (May 6, 2009)

Regarding the borax, i will typically form a drop or crust.

Unless I have to use the casting for something that requires a "nice" surface, light tapping with a hammer will make it drop of.

An alternative to sulfuric acid used by jewellers is sold as "Sparex"
[img:200:234]http://www.aaproducts.com/sparex.jpg[/img]
Picture from here: http://www.aaproducts.com/JewelryChemicals.html


But the sparex is traditionally a very crude product sold at too high a price.

A cheaper and cleaner solution (pun intended) to the problem is to go to the pool supply store and buy a chemical used to lower the pH (I bought mine as "Pool pH-minus")

The chemical you want is sodium hydrogen sulphate (Sodium bisulfate) (people expect jewellery supplies to be expensive, but would never pay a fortune for something the pour into their pool in large amounts).

Check the label on the container to make sure it is the right chemical... there is more than one way to turn a pool sour.


> Sparex
> 2 1/2 lb can of Sparex #2. This fine pickling materials
> comes in powder form. Mix 10 oz. with 1 quart of water. Cleans fire scale and other dirt from metals.
> Replace sulfuric acid and water. Safe to use.


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## Oz (May 6, 2009)

Heat will speed the tin going into solution.


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## nicknitro (May 7, 2009)

HtPatch,

From my experiences with nitric, and tin through numerous suggestions from Herald and Steve, the Tin will most likely present a problem in a nitric solution, I believe the resulting compound would be meta-stannic acid, a gellish compound that will most likely overcome your silver. 

This is only a suggestion, I have very limited experience with silver, I can't recall if it is silver nitrate that is impact explosive simlar to snap pops "little tissue paper bags of rocks that snap when you throw them at a hard surface". Evaporating your solution may make this substance more volatile.

So either way look into this further, what was your planned extraction of the silver? cementation on copper?

Nick


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## metatp (May 7, 2009)

Nicknitro,

I was planning to cement on copper.

I plan to first put a small amount of the silver powder in HCL to disolve any tin if present.

After that step, I plan to test this small of silver in some nitric acid ~30% to test the rate of reaction.

Then I would use copper in the silver nitrate to cement out the silver.

I may melt the silver cement after that.


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## peter i (May 7, 2009)

Silver nitrate is not explosive, but if alcohol is added to the acidic silver nitrate solution, silver fulminate will form, and that is the primary explosive used in the "little tissue paper bags of rocks that snap when you throw them at a hard surface" (typically 1-2 mg in each).

Needless to say: Don't try that at home!


If it was my silver powder, I'd start out by dissolving 2 grams in dilute nitric acid, just to see if there is a problem or not. 

Small experiments are quick and cheap to perform, and normally save you a lot of time, money and chemicals later.
(But be careful when scaling the preliminary test. The reaction that makes a light froth or raises the temperature a couple of degrees in the test-tube, might make your 5-litre beaker boil happily!)


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## metatp (May 7, 2009)

Thanks. I will try that first.


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## nicknitro (May 8, 2009)

Thanks Peter,

Nick


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## Oz (May 8, 2009)

It certainly does little harm trying a bit with nitric as Peter suggests, a gram or 2 is no great loss if you have problems. I run a good deal of silver and have learned to be careful of tin in nitric, nothing like having to incinerate a few batches to correct it if you miss catching the tin to make you cautious. Let us know how your test goes.


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## metatp (May 8, 2009)

Thank you everyone for your help. I've been sitting on this silver for over 20 years. I even found one 4 oz jar of the silver with the epoxy still in it. I incinerated it (at least what I could remove from the jar. That appeared to work well.

I won't be able to test any of these scenarios for a couple of weeks, but here are the tests I will do on small batches first.

1. Test about 1 oz of the powder as is in 30% nitric acid (adding small amount to see the reaction rate)

2. Test about 1 oz of the powder as is in HCL to see if there is any tin that is removed.

3. Test about 1 oz of the powder by incinerating (incase there are any remaining organics that were not removed)

4. Melting a small amount that went through incineration (from 3 above or from the 4 oz that used to have epoxy)

After these results, I will process the rest of the ~88 oz of silver. I am doing this mainly in the name of learning and teaching my kids (yes safety first). I don't know what to do with the silver cement yet. I will probably melt all of it into ingots (because I think that would be cool). Then I guess I will have to sell it somewhere.

I am so glad I found this forum and the great assistance you all are giving me. Thanks!


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## nicknitro (May 9, 2009)

HTPatch,

You seem like an excellent forum member, I, appreciate you sharing with the forum on your results. I like the idea of sharing the info with your kids as well. It seems hard to relate with family members on refining issues, until payday for most. Kids would absorb the knowledge like a sponge. As you said as long as safety comes first.


Welcome aboard Brother,
Nick


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## metatp (May 10, 2009)

Well, I couldn't wait. I tried 2 and 3 below.

2. Test about 1 oz of the powder as is in HCL to see if there is any tin that is removed.

I did not see any fizzing, but after leaving the sample in HCL for about 8 hours (no heating), I noticed that the solution turned yellow and I can still see fumes coming out. Is this normal? I have not filtered and rinsed the sample yet.

3. Test about 1 oz of the powder by incinerating (in case there are any remaining organics that were not removed)

Unfortunately, there are still some organics left after 20 years. I don't know if it is left over epoxy or toluene that was used way back then. The silver powder has been in a seal jar for the 20 years. After incineration (which didn't appear to take too long), I noticed that some of the sample seems to have a pink or rose color tint to it. After reweighing post incineration, I did not notice a change in weight (less than a gram). The sample started at 28 grams and ended up 28 gram. 

It appears that I may need to incinerate the whole batch before refining with nitric acid 

I still don't know if there was any tin. I will check the weight of the #2 sample post HCL processing.

#1 and #4 will have to weight.

Any thoughts so far?


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## Oz (May 10, 2009)

Toluene will evaporate off easily enough by just spreading your material on a plate, try not to breathe it. If there are organics it is best to remove them with incineration. For your other tests 1 or 2 grams should be enough until you settle on a process. 

Since you are sure you have tin in this mix you will be making stannous chloride with your HCl. In this case you could actually test that you are no longer removing tin with your HCl by using a gold chloride solution.


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## metatp (May 10, 2009)

Well, after rinsing and drying I weighed the sample that was sitting in HCL. There was also a less than 1 gram change in weight. There is not much tin mixed in. I have no gold chloride solution to test.

I spread out 10 ounces in a plate to air out in the hot Florida sun. I don't think there is any toluene left, but there is an order that disappears when I incinerate. This order was still there after the HCL process. I will incinerated the whole batch first.

I still don't know what the pink tint is on some of the silver after incinerated. I will put this in HCL to see if it changes. My kids think it might be an impurity that came out after incineration.

I also don't know if there is enough tin in the batch to affect dissolving the silver in nitric acid. I will find out in the next couple of weeks while I make sure I have everything I need to safely do test #1.


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## metatp (May 10, 2009)

I finished my first tests. There is definitely tin mixed in and organic material. Out of 56g, I had removed 3g after incineration and soaking in HCL. I will do the same for the rest.

Any idea of which I should do first? I tried soaking 626g in HCL prior to incineration. That was too much at one time for my set up, and the HCL doesn't take the smell away. Should I incinerate first? It is very quick and I do get a clearer solution in the HCL. I only issue I am concerned with is melting the tin while trying to incinerate.

I have abandoned test #1 and #4 until I wash in HCL and incinerate.

I also decided to make some ingot (maybe 2 to 5 oz in size). I am using a torch to melt. Is there a size that is practically too big using this method?

As always, thanks.


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## peter i (May 11, 2009)

HTPatch said:


> .......
> 
> Any idea of which I should do first? .........
> 
> I have abandoned test #1 and #4 until I wash in HCL and incinerate......



Yes, as said previously: *Try to dissolve 1-2 grams in nitric before doing anything else.*

You might be trying to solve a problem that is not even there!
The test you have abandoned is the single most important, because it would tell you if you have a problem at all. If you have a problem with tin it will clearly show, and then it is time to solve that problem.

Learn the kids to start small and wise, and to make a plan before they do so.



> Most people can be trusted to do the right thing once they have tried everything else


 :wink:


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## nicknitro (May 11, 2009)

HTPatch,

Doyou have any gold yet?

It is easy to make your own Gold Chloride.
Just search on the forum.

I may be able to help you, PM Me.

Nick


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## metatp (May 11, 2009)

peter i,

Thanks. You are right. I can still test in nitric first with a small amount. I am pretty sure I will still incinerate first. It is too easy and removes the smell. But if I don't have to soak in HCL, it will save that step. I am guessing that there is a 1/2% of tin in the mixture. Does any of the silver dissolve in HCL at room temp? When I rinsed the solution in water, it turned milky and there was some percipitant which I assume is tin. I added a little HCL again, and it did clear up to a transparent yellow again.

BTW. After putting the incinerated sample (with the pink tint) in HCL, the pink tint when away.


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## metatp (May 20, 2009)

I am back from vacation.

I still need a lot of practice, but with a larger sample (626g), I had about 36g of loss after HCL and then incinerating. I know I lost a few grams in the handling. I will be much better with the rest. I just need to use HCL on smaller batches that will be easier to filter.

Next will be the test in nitric acid before removing the tin and organics before I process the remaining 3000 grams.


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## metatp (May 21, 2009)

> 1. Test about 1 oz of the powder as is in 30% nitric acid (adding small amount to see the reaction rate)



Well, I tested about 15g in about 25-30% nitric acid. The reaction started quickly, but was not a problem. It only took a couple of hours to dissolve it all. Some chunks were a little bigger and took a little longer.

A tan substance was left behind. Most of it floated to the top with the bubbles. I am guessing that this is the organics (epoxy residue) that were still present. I am not sure if the tin is mixed with the floating tan stuff, but it looks like it will be hard to filter. I will let it sit overnight and try to filter it tomorrow. It looks like a mess just with 15g. I can only image how bad it will be with 200g.

I may try this again with some that I incinerated to get rid of the epoxy residue, but didn't wash in HCL.


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## peter i (May 22, 2009)

If you can dissolve most, and the undissolved part is easy to isolate, then I'd try to incinerate the undissolved part and treat it with nitric again.

Tin will give you a lot of white voluminous slimy precipitate, and the main problem is, that it is hard to remove it from the silver solution.

The silver you dissolve and pour off without problems is just what you want. 

Based on your experiment I would:

- Treat with nitric, collect the silver solution.
- wash the undissolved part with demineralised water, and add the wash-water to the silver solution.
- dry and incinerate the undissolved part
- weigh
- dissolve in nitric if it is worth the trouble.

- cement the silver with copper or use one of the other methods for reducing it.


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## metatp (May 22, 2009)

I look at it this morning. It pretty much looked the same as it did last night. There was a lot of stuff stuck to the glass around the edge of the solution. I stirred with a glass rod. A lot of the tan stuff fell to the bottom, but the rest stuck to the stirring rod.

The solution also has gone from a clear colorless liquid to a slightly yellow tinted solution.

Peter, I can try what you say, but it will be hard to get all the undissolved material out of the glass beaker.

Tom


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## metatp (May 22, 2009)

Well it wasn't fun trying to filter that mess. It was also difficult to clean the glassware with the stick residue. I don't know if it was because of the tin or epoxy residue. Probably both. The solution after filtering is cloudy even after sitting for an hour. There doesn't seem to be any precipitation. It this normal? I will add the copper and see how the cementing goes.

Tom


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## metatp (May 23, 2009)

I am done with my initial tests. Since I found three more 4oz jars of 80% silver epoxy, I will incinerate it all first. See picture of cementing silver with copper, and the silver product. I just have one question only silver, or could tin still be in their?

We took the copper nitrate and decided to try and cement the copper with iron nails. The solution turned black so I don't know how that is going.

I few more practice runs and I will be ready to video tape with the kids.

Thanks peter, oz and nicknitro for your help.

Tom


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## nicknitro (May 23, 2009)

Tom,

Looking pretty good.

I would be slightly concerned with the clumping of the silver, I have mostly fine powder from my cementations. Was this cementation from the incinerated batch? If not, I would probably recommend an incineration, and a second go in nitric.

LazerSteves videos, show the AgCl form nitric to be very hard clumps, which he had to knead to break up for further processing. Don't let me alarm you though, most of my cementations were small scale so far, maybe the higher concentration from your 4 oz. is what makes the difference.

Congratulations,
Nick


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## lazersteve (May 24, 2009)

Nicknitro said:


> LazerSteves videos, show the AgCl form nitric to be very hard clumps, which he had to knead to break up for further processing.



Nick,

The silver chloride you are referring to was allowed to dry out. I have since learned not to let my silver chloride dry out if I'm going to convert it using wet chemistry.

Steve


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## metatp (May 24, 2009)

Nick,

It is actually a very fine powder. If you touch it, it collapse.

It was not incinerated or soak in HCL. there was about a 1g difference in weight (16g to 15g). This is the same loss I got with the incineration and HCL soak. It is very shiny. The picture does not do it justice.

I with try incineration and any HCL wash, because I am curious. Will any of the silver dissolve in room temp HCL?

I also cemented the copper. It worked pretty well, but I only got 2g. I think the rest was left on the iron. The solution was a dark black.

I still need more practice, but it was very fun to watch.

Thanks,
Tom


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## nicknitro (May 24, 2009)

Sounds Good Tom,

1. The copper will bond to the iron I believe. Not Sure, but sounds right from what I have read. Maybe zinc powder, it should drop out the copper, however take your time adding to the nitric as it will fizz up quite abit.

2. Silver is hard to dissolve in HCL when it is in a bar form or solid form, as the silver forms AgCl which shields the reaction from going any further. Being powedered, I would be concerned as to where it will head to. My guess is that most of it will turn into AgCl , which may not be what you want, as you will have to process it further to get silver metal again.

Maybe just hot water washes will be fine for now, unless you are really worried about the tin. In which case, I think you are in the same boat as I am in looking into makeing your own silver cell or buying one. I don't know how knowledgeable you are with electrolytic solutions, but you have done very well so far.

3. If you haven't already LazerSteve has some very helpful videos on silver/gold/ melting/ and anything else you can think of related to refining. The link to his page is right under his name on this page.

Good Luck and Nice Job,
Nick


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## Harold_V (May 24, 2009)

It was common for me to wash my cemented silver with HCl if it was quite dirty. One of the instances where I did so was when recovering silver from electrical contacts that were made of silver and tungsten. The wash water was always a deep blue color, and the quality of the silver was improved considerably. I did not do a hot wash, just added about 20% HCl to the container and stirred well. 

Once you've done a wash by this method, I think you'll find the silver will settle immediately after you've stopped stirring. You can decant and rinse rapidly as a result. You need not fear any of the silver dissolving. The only change you should notice, aside from getting rid of unwanted substances, is that the silver will be cleaner and brighter in appearance. HCl does not dissolve silver readily, and only sparsely at best. 

Harold


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## nicknitro (May 24, 2009)

No cheese curd-like precip of AgCl, Harold?
Does this only happen when the silver is in solution as silver nitrate?

Sounds great, I will have to try it to see the results. Does this only happen when the silver is in solution as silver nitrate? Thanks for the help.

Thanks as Always Harold,

Nick


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## Harold_V (May 25, 2009)

nicknitro said:


> No cheese curd-like precip of AgCl, Harold?
> Does this only happen when the silver is in solution as silver nitrate?


I should have been more explicit. 

The process I mentioned is for washing the recovered silver (the cemented silver)----_not silver nitrate_. Needless to say, if you add HCl to silver nitrate, you'll end up with silver chloride, which should be avoided unless that is your objective. 

Harold


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## metatp (May 25, 2009)

I tried a larger batch (300g) that was incinerated and washed in HCL. I used 25% nitric acid. Not a good idea. The reaction was way too fast. Lots of brown fumes. I couldn't even add the whole 300g. I think I am going to melt the silver powder into bigger pieces. I could also do a lot of smaller batches. Any other suggestion.

Thanks,
Tom


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## goldsilverpro (May 25, 2009)

The nitric reaction on silver is easily controlled. First, cover the silver with distilled water. Then, add a small increment of nitric. When the reaction subsides, stir it and add a little more nitric. Repeat until the silver is dissolved. Try not to overadd. You'll quickly get the hang of how much nitric you can add at one time and the frequency of the additions. You may have to add a little more water. At the end, the amounts of water and nitric should be approximately equal - this will prevent crystallization when the solution cools. To dissolve 1 gram of silver, it will take about 1.22 ml of nitric, more or less. I usually estimate how much nitric (and, water) I will need and measure it out before I start. This is only an estimate. It could take a little less or a little more.


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## metatp (May 25, 2009)

GSP,

Thanks. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I will try that next time. For now, I have a dark brown or black solution I need to fix. What is this crystallization? Is that possibly what I have now?

Thanks,
Tom


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## goldsilverpro (May 25, 2009)

If you take a portion of nitric acid and dissolve enough silver to consume all the nitric, clear crystals of silver nitrate will form when the solution cools. To prevent this, the solution is diluted with water. If you didn't add enough water and the crystals do form, they are dissolved by adding more water. This is sped up by warming and stirring. Shoot for a 50/50, nitric/water solution at the end. This ratio will prevent crystallization and, at the same time, it won't give an excess of solution to deal with.


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## metatp (May 25, 2009)

OK. Sorry to be such a pain. I am trying to salvage the mess I made. The solution was very black with still lots of material that did not seem to dissolve. There were no more bubbles, so I filtered the solution. After filtering, the resulting solution was clear (no color). I used copper piping to start the cementing. The silver started cementing off quickly, and the pipe dissolved fairly fast. That was about nine hours ago, and the copper is still dissolving (and I think silver is still dropping).

I collected the black stuff and what appeared to be undissolved silver, covered it with water and added nitric. There are some small amounts bubbles, but very very small and not too often. I waited about 6 hours, and the solution is still a dark black with sediment on the bottom. I added a pinch on silver powder to see if it reacted quickly, but it did not. Just a couple of bubbles every once and a while. I tried a silver (not plated spoon) to see what would happen. There were a some tiny bubbles, but I'm not sure if the spoon was dissolving or cementing silver. I added a little more nitric, stirred, but nothing more.

Anyone have any suggestions/help. 

The powder I started with before dissolving in the nitric should be about 98-99% silver. It was incinerated first and then soaked in 31% HCL prior to adding to 30/50 nitric/water.

Thanks,
Tom


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## Harold_V (May 26, 2009)

Not sure what your question is. If it's the remaining material, dissolve a sample in AR and do a test with stannous chloride for values. 

If you used too much nitric, it will continue to dissolve the copper until either it is gone, or the free nitric has been consumed. What I'd suggest is to take a drop of the solution and add some salt or HCl. If you don't get a cloudy reaction (silver chloride) you can consider that silver as all being cemented. The one problem that you face, assuming you used too much acid, is some of it may re-dissolve. 

Before you make any determinations, stir the cemented silver well, so any dragged down silver nitrate will be liberated. Keep copper in the solution until you are sure none remains. 

Harold


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## nicknitro (May 26, 2009)

Harold,

Thank you for clarifying and thanks for all your help.

I have a question about the "black material left over". If the solution was spent of the nitric ions, (25-30%), could the black stuff be a precipitant from another base metal. I have had the same black stuff precip out of a few of my first very dirty solutions, after letting them sit. I know the tin should be taken care of from incineration and hcl wash, so suggestions? 


Hope it all works out for ya HTPatch.


Thanks Again,
Nick


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## Harold_V (May 26, 2009)

nicknitro said:


> could the black stuff be a precipitant from another base metal. I have had the same black stuff precip out of a few of my first very dirty solutions, after letting them sit.


Not being a chemist, I can only assume that it could be---and it could also be fine particles of carbon. I would not discount the possibility that there could be greater values included, however. I suggested dissolving a trace in AR for testing to insure that you wouldn't toss the baby with the bath water. If a test reveals no values, it's most likely safe to discard. 

When I encountered things like this, I always incinerated. That way, if there was carbon present, it was eliminated. 

Harold


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## nicknitro (May 26, 2009)

Harold,

Once again 2 steps ahead of me. Carbon, seems very logical, as his solution originally contained an epoxy-type resin. 

Tom, I don't believe I ever asked what the specifics of the source were. What was the application for this material, again, if you already stated.

Good Luck,
Nick


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## metatp (May 26, 2009)

Carbon makes sense. When I incinerated, it was about 6 lbs at once. I can see that the incineration may not have been fully complete. Carbon could be trapped in the chucks of silver powder. It also looks and acts like carbon in solution. I was constantly stirring yesterday, but after sitting overnight, the black starting settling out. The source of the silver is from 80% silver filled epoxy that has been washed in toluene about 20 years ago. There is a small amount of tin filled epoxy added by accident.

One question, could the carbon slow down the chemical reaction with silver and nitric acid?

The cementing process seem to be complete this morning. I will test later today. I did constantly stir the solution yesterday, and that lead to more reactivity. I stirrred it again this morning. I think I just made a batch a little larger than i was set up to handle.

Thanks Again.

Tom


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## Oz (May 26, 2009)

If it makes sense that your black residue is carbon from incomplete incineration of large batches you should incinerate that portion again. Carbon is a collector of values, and in this case if it was an epoxy could even be encapsulating some silver.

Harold preaches incineration and for good reasons. It is the best way to eliminate traces of one acid before proceeding to another, and as mentioned carbon is a holder of values.


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## metatp (May 26, 2009)

Oz,

Now it makes sense why the reaction was continuing, but very very slowly. I guess I need to stop taking short cut that make the final process longer.

I do think it is amazing that I think I will have losses, but there are ways of getting the value back  .


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## metatp (Jun 2, 2009)

I took everybody's advise and things are going great. The key was to incinerate more completely with smaller batches. Rinsing with 30% HCL also made things much easier. I have been experimenting with different amounts of silver with nitric acid, and have the reaction to a very manageable rate with between 100g-200g of silver per batch. It amazes me that even with the incineration and HCL wash, I still get a little left over non-silver residue, but no more black solution or sticky residue.

I tried some sterling silver, and the reaction was much slower.

After removing the silver, I even precipitated the copper with Iron nails. Ugly black solution, but it was fun to see the copper forming on the nails. Maybe I will try aluminum next time.

Right now I just have the cemmented silver. I will try my hand at melting ingots this summer. Hope it is as educational as refining the silver.

Thanks all!!
Tom


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## metatp (Jun 29, 2009)

Here is the fruit of my labor so far. This is a batch of about 1000g-1200g of silver. I just love that pretty blue color.


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## Oz (Jul 2, 2009)

You might wish to take a small sample of your “pretty blue” solution and add a few drops of HCl or a few grains of sodium chloride (table salt) to it and see if you get any cloudy white reaction. If you do then you still have silver in solution that still needs time to cement on copper. BTW the white cloudy material that may form with this test is silver chloride. 

Nice job!


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## metatp (Jul 2, 2009)

Thanks Oz.

I did tested. I guess I am learning. Since I used up most of the nitric acid in dissolving the silver, the cementing with copper was slow. When I thought it was first done, I tested it and silver was still in solution (got a little silver Chloride cloud). By the next day, the test showed no silver. It has been filtered and rinsed thoroughly. I will be trying to melt some small ingots in the next couple of days.

Again, thanks for all your help. I learned a lot and am thinking about trying some gold. 

Tom


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## nicknitro (Jul 3, 2009)

Tom,

Nice Job Bud!

If you do venture into gold processes, which I hope you do, first build up a descent stock to experiment with. Just some friendly advice.

Good Luck and Happy 4th,
Nick

By the way, I love the pavers in the background. LOL


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## Oz (Jul 3, 2009)

Tom,

I am glad if I had something to say in this thread that had value to you.

As for the gold it is not hard to grab a few junk computers or a damaged piece of jewelry. You will not get rich quick but the education you gain could prove the real gold you mine.

Just wait until we get you sucked into platinum group metals ;-)


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## metatp (Jul 4, 2009)

I was playing around with some melting today. Didn't take pictures of the ~1 oz loafs I made. I was just practicing. I did decide to re-melt some and pour it into a bucket of water. Interesting shapes, but i think I will stick with the loafs.


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## metatp (Jul 8, 2009)

Peter,

I was reading some old posts to see out using Sparex to remove the borax. I see that you also suggested using "pH-minus" I actually got some of that from a friend of mine. Do you know how much I should use/put in water? 



peter i said:


> But the sparex is traditionally a very crude product sold at too high a price.
> 
> A cheaper and cleaner solution (pun intended) to the problem is to go to the pool supply store and buy a chemical used to lower the pH (I bought mine as "Pool pH-minus")
> 
> The chemical you want is sodium hydrogen sulphate (Sodium bisulfate) (people expect jewelery supplies to be expensive, but would never pay a fortune for something the pour into their pool in large amounts).



Thanks,
Tom


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## Platdigger (Jul 8, 2009)

Will also disolve gold and even rhodium to some degree.


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## peter i (Jul 9, 2009)

HTPatch said:


> Peter,
> 
> I was reading some old posts to see out using Sparex to remove the borax. I see that you also suggested using "pH-minus" I actually got some of that from a friend of mine. Do you know how much I should use/put in water?
> 
> ...



I just use "a heaping spoonful" to 500 mL of water, that's roughly a 10% solution by weight. Heating the solution will make it work faster.

(you should end a quote with a [/quote] rather than a


> to make it work)


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## metatp (Jul 9, 2009)

THANKS!

Sorry for yeling, but this should help greatly.

Tom


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