# gold cleanup for sale



## Anonymous (Mar 1, 2008)

Hi There; I was given some gold that was covered with mercury and am in the process of cleaning it up for sale. I have so far burned the mercury off with a torch on charcoal blocks and am left with 25 buttons of various sizes [11 oz. total]. I would like to melt these all together into one mass. Since I do not have a crucible I'm thinking of melting this with a torch in a heavy cast iron mortar. My question is, will this work and what kind of flux do I need to further clean this up. What do I need to do to separate any silver or other metals to make this mass pure gold? Thanks to anyone who can help with this. Clem


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## Harold_V (Mar 1, 2008)

Clemhz said:


> I have so far burned the mercury off with a torch on charcoal blocks and am left with 25 buttons of various sizes [11 oz. total].


I trust you didn't do this inside, where you could breath the fumes. If you did, see your doctor immediately. 



> I would like to melt these all together into one mass. Since I do not have a crucible I'm thinking of melting this with a torch in a heavy cast iron mortar. My question is, will this work and what kind of flux do I need to further clean this up. What do I need to do to separate any silver or other metals to make this mass pure gold? Thanks to anyone who can help with this. Clem


It will work alright, but you'll probably lose the mortar (cast iron does not like getting heated unless you do it uniformly. It will most likely crack if you do it with a torch). 

Now that we've cleared the air on the mortar breaking-----let me tell you why it's a really bad idea. 

Assuming you are successful in melting the material, using a flux (which would be borax), what you'll do is form a bond with the vessel, assuming it hasn't been rusted or otherwise oxidized to the point where the flux can't overcome the oxide coat. In essence, you'll have soldered the material to the vessel. A very bad idea, one that should not be done. 

One does NOT melt metals in metallic vessels, not without a refractory wash, and even then it's not a great idea. Such material should be melted in a melting dish, which is typically made of clay. The dish would be coated with borax after being pre-heated, so the charge will not stick. The alternative is a crucible, which can be made of graphite/clay or silicon carbide. I don't like using the type used for assaying because they tend to have a limited lifespan. Crucibles are best heated in a furnace, not by torch, although that can work if you have a large enough tip for the torch (rose bud). Melting dishes are cheap, easy to handle, and have a considerable lifespan, assuming you buy those of decent quality (made of white clay) and season them properly before use. 

Extracting the values isn't easily done unless you understand refining procedures. To give you step by step instructions isn't reasonable when the information is available in a form that will provide all that is necessary (in the way of knowledge) to permit you to process the material properly. My advice to you is the same advice I offer to anyone that wants to refine, but hasn't a clue. Buy Hoke's book. Not because I have an interest in the book. I don't. Don't have an interest in the sources, either. I simply understand the power of the book and know that it is a single source that will teach you the things you should know in order to process waste materials to extract values. 

The subject you broached has been beat to death on this forum----and my answer remains constant. You can get a lot of helpful information here, but in order for it to make sense to you, it really helps if you have a basic understanding of refining procedures. That's what the book is for. It is also a kindness to those of us that try to help others. It keeps us from repeating the same information over and over when all it takes is for readers to meet us half way by learning the basics before taking the plunge. 

Assuming you procured the book, it's entirely possible you'd have no questions once you understood what it teaches you. It is written in plain English, in language that permits even a person with no chemical education to understand what to do, and how to do it. 

My advice for the moment is one of two things. Sell them as they are, or buy the book. Do NOTHING until you've made a decision about what you'd like to do with them. That way you won't do stupid things that can place you in harms way, or do damage to the material that will complicate the recovery of values. 

Harold

edit: corrected typo


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## SilverNitrate (Mar 3, 2008)

Harold_V said:


> Clemhz said:
> 
> 
> > I have so far burned the mercury off with a torch on charcoal blocks and am left with 25 buttons of various sizes [11 oz. total].
> ...



Wonder if doctor says he's alright now?


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## skyline27 (Mar 3, 2008)

He hasn't responded. I hope he's ok. 

Perhaps we should start a ticker for refiners lost in the line of duty.


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## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2008)

Thanks for the heads-up on the mercury issue. Of course I did the torching of the mercury outside, and whenever the fumes started blowing in my direction, I held my breath. Anyway I got the job done. Common sense is a good thing, no? Now that I think back on this, I probably should have used nitric acid to get rid of the mercury first and then torched it, all outside of course. Thanks for your concern, I am just fine.


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## SilverNitrate (Mar 3, 2008)

Clemhz said:


> Now that I think back on this, I probably should have used nitric acid to get rid of the mercury first and then torched it, all outside of course. Thanks for your concern, I am just fine.



then you will have mercuric oxide to contend with. Really the only way to remove a mercury saturated metal is to melt it completely, (smelt it) drive off the fumes and scrub the gases. Mercury forms an amalgam which actually soaks into the gold or silver just as water can wet into a block of wood.


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## skyline27 (Mar 3, 2008)

Where do mercury fumes end up?


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## Shaul (Mar 4, 2008)

Sky;

That depends on where outside is. If it's in your garden, they could end up on your roses which you smell, or on your vegetables which you eat.

Be aware of where all those toxic fumes are going, they don't just disappear.

Work Right, Work Safe.


Shaul


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## skyline27 (Mar 4, 2008)

That's kinda what I thought. Trashing the neighborhood long term to make a buck today. 

Pardon me, Clemhz, but I hope that mercury has rendered you as impotent as an over-cooked noodle.


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## calgoldrecyclers (Mar 9, 2008)

Well, now. lets not forget absorbing mercury fumes through the membranes. if you dont have some sort of setup to capture mercury vapors, dont even think about "melting" mercury. now we know who's producing all our acid rain.
how come no one that has ever refined gold, suddenly thinks they know what they are doing?
knowledge is key in any aspect that has to do with chemicals/acids/elements.


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## skyline27 (Mar 9, 2008)

It's only a matter of time before a small scale refiner gets nailed for destructive practices. This will endanger the livliehood of many of us, not to mention the community. If you can't do something in a safe and ecologically responsible manner, you have no business doing it at all.


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## Absolutsecurity (Mar 9, 2008)

Should have retorted that amalgam first and then wet processed it - a very bad idea messing with mercury unless you have prior experience with it and its dangers! 

Never heat mercury unless you intend on condensing its vapors for recovery - mercury just doesnt dissapear it stays in the food chain - goes up in air - drops out - gets into plant life - gets into food chain and then ends up in us!

Glynn


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## SilverNitrate (Mar 9, 2008)

some of us have the drive to do it. Like smoking cigarettes, we know it can kill us, but we do it anyway.
No matter how much we try to avoid the fumes and contact its guaranteed that any of us refiners' toxicology exam will reveal that we have an elevated amount of heavy metals, NOx, halogen, free redicals, sulfoxides and formain in our systems, but I think say doing this will make our off-spring more resilliant to these toxins.


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## skyline27 (Mar 9, 2008)

You have every right to harm yourself, if you think it's worth it. The problem starts when you affect others (neighbors, other refiners, future generations). If you're willing to sacrifice others in your pursuits, then you have about the same level of morality as a meth cook.


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## Anonymous (Mar 9, 2008)

OK,OK,Ok, I get it. This burning of the mercury was done way up in the mountains, away from plants and neighbors[there are none]. I won't be doing this again and if you want to talk about acid rain, talk to your big corporations about how they pollute the air. On a lighter note I do appreciate the comments I've recieved from all of you. Mabye I should get a hair analysis done, do ya think? Let's not beat this subject to death,OK?


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## Lou (Mar 9, 2008)

Wow, I'm a bit at a loss...


Erm... I'd go get some chelation therapy. 

I work with metallic mercury all the time, no worries with it.

Working with mercury vapour---bad, working with mercuric nitrate--VERY bad. Don't dissolve mercury in nitric acid, the salt is every bit as poisonous as cyanide, but your death is much more protracted. Then there's disposal.

Frankly, I wouldn't deal with mercury wastes if I were a private individual--too much liability.

You can distill off the mercury in a glass retort even, done at about 350C with vacuum assist.


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## istari9 (Mar 9, 2008)

The old time proper way to remove mercury from soils (gold) was to distill it and reconstitute it into the natural liquid state. Be aware though this is a heavy metal and though the fumes are VERY BAD. It can also be absorbed through the skin. The metal will never leave you and will wait until enough is absorbed before it begins to cause real harm. I worked with a guy on a crucible project. The company built a huge crucible to remove gold from mud sludge. Well to make this story shorter the man had worked with mercury so much he was toxic with it in his system. It made him appear pale as well as other problems he encountered.

Ray


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## skyline27 (Mar 9, 2008)

"Common sense is a good thing"


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## EVO-AU (Aug 29, 2008)

Clemhz: Amen Amen ! ! You hit the nail on the head. If all these spouters did as much as they erupted, maybe we would be better off.
evo-au


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## SilverFox (Oct 15, 2008)

I think everyone was mostly worried about your health(I hope); Even holding your breath you prob took more then a healthy dose.

If you could smell any fumes whatsoever you breathed it, doesn't have to be smoke to make you sick.

As a dive instructor I often found myself smelting new lead weights because students would lose my belts. Even though you done breath the white smoke from the let pot your still getting that waxy smell, (which contains lead).

I would always wear a respirator rated for fumes each time I dealt with something toxic.


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## Harold_V (Oct 15, 2008)

SilverFox said:


> As a dive instructor I often found myself smelting new lead weights because students would lose my belts.


Interesting. What type of ore did you start with, and how was it acquired? 

Harold


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## butcher (Oct 16, 2008)

Harold he might of melted and confuse it with smelting


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## Harold_V (Oct 16, 2008)

That's certainly my guess. 

I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to terminology. Not that I have things right all the time-----I don't. It would be nice, however, if the term smelt was used in the correct sense. Rarely does a home refiner smelt-----the action of recovering metals from ores via furnace. We melt our metals, we do _not_ smelt our metals. 

Harold


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## SilverFox (Oct 16, 2008)

Harold_V said:


> SilverFox said:
> 
> 
> > As a dive instructor I often found myself smelting new lead weights because students would lose my belts.
> ...



If you had noticed my post was full of typos. I did not think anyone was going to waste the time pointing those out.

As for the Metal used I was melting tire weights, which I got freely from the auto repair down the road from my dive center.

And your right, I was melting them. No ore was involved.


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## Harold_V (Oct 16, 2008)

SilverFox said:


> And your right, I was melting them. No ore was involved.


Just as I expected. However, I hope you can see how others might get the wrong impression. 

I don't mean to belabor the point, but we should all try to use proper terms when discussing these issues. All too many toss some words around as if they make no difference, but they do. Those that are trying to learn are often lead in the wrong direction. Without a few speaking out, I can see how poor practices can become commonplace. No one benefits ----- and precious resources and time are wasted with readers pursuing improper guidance. 

My purpose here is to try to educate, and share the experiences I had when I refined. I would be remiss in my purpose if I allowed comments that are wrong to stand. Please don't take it personally. Try to learn from the experience, just as others may. 

Harold


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## butcher (Oct 18, 2008)

Harold seems Harsh but I think he is really just a softy, and a good one to learn from, I have a hard time with proper terms also but it does make a better forum and we all do benifit, when we can use them, also learning the difference helps me to get more Gold because if'n I melt it it just changes form of the same thing, but if I smelt it with flux in bone ash it can leave me a purer button.


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## eemtek (Nov 9, 2008)

i use celantro as a weekly thing to help prevent metal poisoning.. It bonds with metals in the fat cells and increases metals output in the urine.. Right now im working on the foot electrolosis thing. I didnt believe in it at first, but it does do something that does work.. Its not how the sales pitch says it works, but i think it actually frees the heavy metals back into the blood for the liver to clean.. I actually get really tired for a few hrs after treatment, but feel better than normal after.. when i get a chromatograph running i want to test my blood and urine during these processes.. if anyone knows anything into these, please add into the info..


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## butcher (Nov 9, 2008)

if you have mercury in your gold a retort is one way of dealing with it.

say you have gold, silver, lead. tin,and mercury,and other base metals.

nitric will eliminate most of the base metals, 

(this solution has silver, lead and mercury and other base metals (Pd will disolve also)the silver lead and mercuy can be seperated from each other leaving the base metals by adding Hcl to make into aqua regia and treat as noted below)

lead,silver,and mercury are insoluble as chlorides.

gold and tin soluble as chlorides as well as other base metals.

many of these metals would need an oxidizer to disolve in HCL to make them chlorides, example nitric acid in Aqua regia, (4.5 patrs HCl 1 part HNO3) this will dissolve gold (PGM's if heated) and most all other metals making them a chloride solution.

then you will need to eliminate the oxidizer to prcipitate the metals from the chloride solution, boiling will remove the nitric evaporating it boil down to thick syrup but not to crystals add some hcl to keep it wet and do this again three times since we have lead add a few drops of sulfric acid to help it precipitate in later steps. I add some warm water and filter out insolubles from this.

then to this liquid add water to it till at least three times the volume.

this by itself will cause a white precipitant let sit till settle(I let sit over night cooler the better) I usually add a little table salt to see if any more silver is in solution if so it will precipitate a little more.

now this white powder is your silver,lead, and mercury, insoluble as a chloride, these can be seperated from each other. lets call this our silver group precipitant, see below how to seperate these.

the liquid contains your gold,(PGM's) and other base metals like tin copper ect. 

I sypher off the liquid (decant) from the white precipitant and filter the liquid then add a precipitant to precipitate the gold (example SO2 gas, ferrous sulfate. sodium metabisufite, ect) this precipitates gold as brown powder let sit 24 hours (which will need rinsing and washed and refined again for purity) decant solution it will contain the PGM's and any base metals, Platinum and rhodium can be precipitated (and if lucky after platinum oxidizes palladium) using ammonium chloride, sodium chlorate will precipitate palladium.

now to seperate the silver group metals from the white powder above containing silver, lead, and mercury. 
these are insoluble as chorides in water. 
well lead is slightly soluble in boilng water and this can de used to seperate the lead from silver and mercury. boil in water then while hot filter the liquid lead cloride, from insoluble silver and mercury(when the lead chloride solution cools it will re precipitate the lead chloride)..

now ammonia will disolve silver but not the mercury this can be used to seperate them, by adding ammonium hydroxide disolving silver and filtering from insoluble mercury (which will not disolve in ammonia).

now since this silver solution still contains a chloride by adding nitric to make the base NH3 back to a acidic solution with HNO3 the silver will precipitate as a chloride and in sunlight silver chloride turns kind of gray violet looking.
that will leave the insoluble mercury, to test can be disolved in a little dilute Aqua Regia and hag a piece of copper wire into it the mercury will plate to it, wiping copper wire will show a bright shining coating of mercury plating.
I hope I didnt make to many mistakes on this.


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## eemtek (May 27, 2009)

istari9 said:


> Be aware though this is a heavy metal and though the fumes are VERY BAD. It can also be absorbed through the skin. The metal will never leave you and will wait until enough is absorbed before it begins to cause real harm. Ray



check you blood work first for metal/toxins. then start eating fresh celantro / basel and garlic.. dont cook or pickel it up, just eat it fresh with food. best cure for heavy metals i have found next to edta iv injections.. I do those ionic foot baths too, i test the water before and after. and even let the unit run to test the water after it.. metals do come out as salts.. my feet feel like sharp pins sometimes. I runt the machine with some epsoms. If your really daring, use leg above the water as an anode, use the tens patches.. then use the water as a cathode, graphite rods work well.. do one foot at a time and adjust voltange and amperage until uncomfortable.. My foot felt like it was on fire.. like something trying to come through.. the water was a differnt smell this time.. smelled like gas.. moral of story, this placebo makes me do feel good in the morning..


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## nicknitro (May 27, 2009)

EEMtek,

This sounds interesting. I thought you were talking about thos Kinoki Foot Pads at first. i don't think I'd have enough gall to try this though.

Clemhz, What was your question again? This might help us all get back on track.

Good Luck,
Nick


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## eemtek (May 28, 2009)

the footpads do kinda work.. basically sweating works better.. fresh celantro has enzymes that actually dig in your fat cells and pull out heavy metals. then it is excreted in urin.. fresh garlic.. eat lots til you smell it.. it really coats your lungs with mucus that has sulfates in it.. i did it once where i ate a whold garlic clove set with a meal.. few hrs the smell came.. vampires were scared.. but later that night i coughed up phlem and examined it. it had fibers.. fiberglass fibers! if i am right i was working with fiberglass 3-4 weeks earlier.. what else did it drag up.. my guess if you freshly tar your lungs everyday, this will not work on you.. 

these are suggestions, as with all medicin, it doesnt work on everyone.. or we would be clones :lol: 
hope it helps.. also look into chlorene and cancer, then check cyanide and cancer.. pick your evil


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## rainmaker (Sep 16, 2009)

As for removing mercury safely, I read that the old timers would place their gold/mercury sponge in a hollowed out potato, wire the halves together and bake it. The heat would vaporize the mercury and when you opened up the cut potato all you would find was your gold.

rainmaker


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## 4metals (Sep 16, 2009)

I heard about the potato trick while at Keene Engineering in the 80's we were there to buy a retort to take to Ecuador for cleaning up our amalgamations. There wasn't a heck of a lot to do at night in the Oriente (the Ecuadorian outback) so one night we tried it while sitting by a campfire with the wind to our backs. It works! Just don't eat the spud!


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## Anonymous (Sep 30, 2009)

I am a newbe, but at least I recognize I have a lot to learn. Want to as fast as I can too.

Harold_V mentions a great book by Hoke. Tried to find it, but not enough info. 

How about a title and/or full author's name? Thanks in advance.

Great site, exactly what I am looking for! 8)


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## jimdoc (Sep 30, 2009)

Just look at the bottom of any of this member's posts; PalladiumThere is a link to the Hoke's book there as well as some other good info to download.
Jim
This link will work;
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1666


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