# Can anyone explain this very strange precipitation?



## black sands (Jan 22, 2015)

I stumbled across an interesting video of what appears to be gold precipitating in the form of fine shiny leaf-like particles. Please ignore the fact it has an alchemical taste... I know alchemy isn't real... don't need a lecture about it. What I would like is a possible chemical explanation for this apparent precipitation. I've never seen gold precipitate as a shiny golden metal. After some research it seems ethanol has been used in the past to precipitate ultra fine shiny golden particles (isn't there a risk of producing explosives when introducing ethanol to gold solutions?). I've also never seen gold precipitate at the surface of a solution...it seems that contact with air might be catalyzing the reaction? What are your thoughts? 

(Please keep in mind the topic is not about the merits of alchemy... lets not trash the thread with our opinions of the faux science)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLIhMCyqZ_8


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## lanfear (Jan 22, 2015)

Look at the first comment under the Youtube video. It is by our member Geo and should explain it. Don't believe in these videos. For you own safety


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## Harold_V (Jan 22, 2015)

Combining alcohol or ammonium hydroxide with dissolved precious metals isn't in your best interest. 

Harold


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## black sands (Jan 23, 2015)

lanfear said:


> Look at the first comment under the Youtube video. It is by our member Geo and should explain it. Don't believe in these videos. For you own safety



I fail to see how that explains it. I've never seen an oxalic precipitation look even remotely similar to the video posted. How do you get oxalic to drop gold "slow", but more importantly how do you get it to precipitate shiny metal without any matte gold powders coming down simultaneously? I thought maybe the guy just dumped some gold leaf particles in there then started filming, but after watching it a couple of times it really looks like the gold is precipitating at the surface then settling. Just wondering how gold can be precipitated like that without electrolysis and without blowing yourself up.


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## mls26cwru (Jan 23, 2015)

This looks very much like an oxalic acid drop. If you start with a solution that is already adjusted to the proper pH and the solution is cool, the precipitation of gold is very very slow. That is why it is why it is recommended to do this reaction at/near boiling. Even when heated, the resulting precipitant will often ''sparkle."

It is also possible this person did not use enough Oxalic acid to reduce all the gold in solution... that could explain why he still has color in the solution.

Oxalic acid reductions can make for some really interesting chemistry


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## black sands (Jan 23, 2015)

Thank you Harold for the warning. 

Also, thank you mls26 for the details. I have seen and heard of oxalic dropping gold which has sparkly particles mixed in with the matte sponge/powder, but I have never seen or heard of it producing over 90% shiny sparkly gold. Do you know of any other precipitants which can form mostly shimmering metallic particles?

One thing that bothers me is all the white salt encrusted inside the beaker. It's obviously crystallized from the evaporation of the saturated solution, but do you think it's just NaCl? 
Looks kind of different to me.


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## Geo (Jan 23, 2015)

It's just a guessing game with no way to determine the winner. The only person that knows exactly what it is, is not saying exactly what it is in the video. I can tell you that it's not silver. You have been given the best possible answer to what it might be.


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## black sands (Jan 23, 2015)

Geo said:


> The only person that knows exactly what it is, is not saying





Geo said:


> You have been given the best possible answer



First you admit you don't know what's happening....then you try to convince me your answer is the "best".
I really enjoy reading your posts Geo, you are definitely a valuable asset to the forum. But if you don't fully understand a reaction, is it good to force an answer and then proclaim all other answers inferior? Seems just a tad close-minded to me.


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## jason_recliner (Jan 24, 2015)

Geo has provided a plausible explanation.
Of course the other possibility is that "Elias the [adjective censored] Artist" discovered, one afternoon in his basement, the secret that has eluded the finest scientific minds for several thousand years.

I'd put my money on Geo.


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## Geo (Jan 24, 2015)

My answer? I didn't answer any question. mls26cwru gave an answer and I believe that's what it is. I'm not being closed minded more than just being a realist. It is asking a question that there is no answer. Any answer you get for this question here would just be a guess. If you ask the guy that made the video, he could give you a recipe for poison as quickly as telling you what it truly is. It's like asking how many grains of sand is on the beach or how many stars is in the sky. I'm not trying to be gruff or mean. I'm just trying to be real about it.


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## black sands (Jan 24, 2015)

> Geo has provided a plausible explanation.
> Of course the other possibility is that "Elias the [adjective censored] Artist" discovered, one afternoon in his basement, the secret that has eluded the finest scientific minds for several thousand years.


Jason... I completely agree that Geo gave a plausible explanation. I disagree with you that it is possible that the conventional laws of science were broken. Please re-read the first post if you do not understand my views on the validity of alchemy.




> My answer? I didn't answer any question. mls26cwru gave an answer


Geo... my original question at the start of this thread led to you posting a comment under the video claiming it looked like oxalic precipitation. Then mls26cwru said the same thing which led to you claiming it was the "best" answer. I see no logical reason not to associate the answer with you, as well as mls26cwru. 




> Any answer you get for this question here would just be a guess.


It doesn't have to just be a blind guess. It can be an educated guess based on the very real clues we see during the reaction. You gave us your best educated guess, and I thank you for that, even if I don't yet agree that all other possible explanations are necessarily inferior.




> he could give you a recipe for poison as quickly as telling you what it truly is.


This is exactly why I'm posting my question here instead of wasting my time with the deluded pseudo-chemist.



If anyone else has constructive technical information about precipitating shimmering gold particles similar to the video, I would love to hear your thoughts!


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## jason_recliner (Jan 24, 2015)

black sands said:


> > Geo has provided a plausible explanation.
> > Of course the other possibility is that "Elias the [adjective censored] Artist" discovered, one afternoon in his basement, the secret that has eluded the finest scientific minds for several thousand years.
> 
> 
> Jason... I completely agree that Geo gave a plausible explanation. I disagree with you that it is possible that the conventional laws of science were broken. Please re-read the first post if you do not understand my views on the validity of alchemy.


I was merely being ironic. And ever so slightly jeering, which may or may not have been inappropriate. If so, this anonymous person from across the internet apologises for the sarcasm, but stands by the underlying sentiment, i.e., the ridicule of the OP's purported transformation of silver to gold.

It seems we agree though: that if Terry McCurter is an artist, that my censored adjective has a certain bovine defecation connotation that would be against forum protocol to publish.


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## black sands (Jan 24, 2015)

jason_recliner said:


> I was merely being ironic. And ever so slightly jeering, which may or may not have been inappropriate. If so, this anonymous person from across the internet apologises for the sarcasm, but stands by the underlying sentiment, i.e., the ridicule of the OP's purported transformation of silver to gold.



Sorry Jason, I was rude. I caught your irony, it's just that when the word "alchemy" gets brought up around here the threads always seem to stray off course with sarcastic remarks about alchemy. I was trying to avoid that with the statement made in my second sentence of this thread. But you were just joking about, sorry I reacted strongly.


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## g_axelsson (Jan 24, 2015)

There is another explanation... it isn't gold at all, it could just look golden from the color of the liquid or being an iron hydroxide film (ie rust) that are formed.

You wanted to know how to precipitate gold as flakes? As I understand it (never done it myself) oxalic acid precipitation of gold from a butyldiglyme gold chloride solution falls as small golden flakes. I don't see any proof of that in the video though.

Göran


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## black sands (Jan 25, 2015)

You are right Goran, it might not be gold, although it sure looks like it to me. I think lead iodide forms golden shiny particles that look a little similar.


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## bswartzwelder (Jan 25, 2015)

Look at what the YouTube video producer is saying. He taking silver and turning it into gold. There is no way to do this with standard chemistry as we know it today. The only possible way to do what he is suggesting would be through a nuclear reaction. I doubt he has a reactor in his basement. He has succeeded in making your thoughts run rampant. ITS NOT POSSIBLE TO TURN SILVER INTO GOLD! Everyone who believes what he has purported to have done is naïve and has been duped and it's not even April 1st.


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## Geo (Jan 25, 2015)

This is a picture of an oxalic acid drop of mine. It is more diluted but it looks a lot like what was in the video.


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## necromancer (Jan 25, 2015)

Geo said:


> This is a picture of an oxalic acid drop of mine. It is more diluted but it looks a lot like what was in the video.




that is extremely beautiful, it's like photos i have seen of deep space, thanks for sharing !!


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## black sands (Jan 27, 2015)

bswartzwelder said:


> Look at what the YouTube video producer is saying. He taking silver and turning it into gold. There is no way to do this with standard chemistry as we know it today. The only possible way to do what he is suggesting would be through a nuclear reaction. I doubt he has a reactor in his basement. He has succeeded in making your thoughts run rampant. ITS NOT POSSIBLE TO TURN SILVER INTO GOLD! Everyone who believes what he has purported to have done is naïve and has been duped and it's not even April 1st.



Wow, did you even read the starting post? It clearly states that I don't believe it is a transmutation. I think it is a precipitation, as do other smart people on this thread. I also clearly asked not to trash the thread with lectures about alchemy. Please read and understand the topic if you are going to join the discussion.





Geo said:


> This is a picture of an oxalic acid drop of mine. It is more diluted but it looks a lot like what was in the video.



GEO!!!!!! Thanks so much for posting the picture....it does look very similar to the particles in the video.


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## Anonymous (Jan 27, 2015)

You can get the same type of drop with SMB too. I've done it a few times.


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## black sands (Jan 28, 2015)

spaceships said:


> You can get the same type of drop with SMB too. I've done it a few times.



Really? What did you do differently in order to get smb to drop shiny golden particles instead of the normal matte powder?


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## Anonymous (Jan 28, 2015)

I have to be completely honest and say that it's always been from HCl/Cl and not from AR. 

It's usually been from second refine and when dropping from a hot solution instead of a cold one. Other than that I am afraid that I am not chemist enough to be able to give you a proper answer. 

Jon


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## Harold_V (Jan 29, 2015)

spaceships said:


> I have to be completely honest and say that it's always been from HCl/Cl and not from AR.
> 
> It's usually been from second refine and when dropping from a hot solution instead of a cold one. Other than that I am afraid that I am not chemist enough to be able to give you a proper answer.
> 
> Jon


Doesn't matter how it is dissolved. On only a VERY few number of times I experienced the same thing, and I used nothing but AR. I also precipitated with SO2 from a cylinder for the vast majority of my refining experiences. Prior to that, I used ferrous sulfate, but never had the same experience with that precipitant. 

I typically precipitated from iced solutions, quite heavily concentrated, so temperature doesn't appear to be a controlling factor. Mine happened when cold, while you appear to have had a similar experience with a hot solution. The only thing we may have had in common was, as I recall, the few experiences I had all came with a second refining, not from the first one. 

All I can say is having gold precipitate that way was one of the things that was mesmerizing. 

Harold

edit:
One of the things I can report is that the gold didn't precipitate immediately, as was normally the case. Instead, the solution absorbed the SO2 and displayed a paling of color, then it would suddenly flash to minute shiny particles of gold in suspension, much like looking at bronze paint.


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## black sands (Jan 29, 2015)

Thank you both for the additional info. I think it's very mysterious how gold can precipitate so differently on rare occasions even though the same usual chemical protocols are followed. It has to be some unforeseen environmental variable causing it. Maybe a difference in the number of solvated electrons present. I don't know, but I would like to find out so we can replicate it at will. 

So do you think the golden particles are forming as crystals, or as amorphous metallic agglomerations?


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## Harold_V (Jan 29, 2015)

Indications are, at least in my example, that crystals were formed. 

Harold


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## Geo (Jan 29, 2015)

Crystals. I agree with Harold. Crystals will reflect the light without diffusion.


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## black sands (Jan 29, 2015)

Hmmm.....interesting


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## Anonymous (Jan 30, 2015)

Thanks Harold. Good to get the consistencies and discrepancies out there. So the only thing we had in common on our drops was the second refine. Well that's a start I guess.

So effectively temperature, and solution (AR or HCl) don't have an effect. I can add another if you like? My solutions were not heavily concentrated so that contrast takes that one out of the picture too. 

I did hear someone once making reference to the acidity of the solution but I have no idea whether that is a factor, but another thing I would agree upon Harold is that that every time it happened to me it precipitated exactly as you said it did. Not immediately, and yes then suddenly. Almost in the blink of an eye - does that fit with your experience? 

Jon


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## Geo (Jan 30, 2015)

I've also noticed that everyone that reports having this happen used H2SO4 somewhere in the process. I'm not sure that it has anything to do with it though as most everyone uses it before precipitating gold.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jan 30, 2015)

Irons made a post a few months ago in the Iron(II) chloride to Iron(II) sulfate thread that caught my interest. It may provide a bit of insight.

As Irons quoted, "From concentrated solutions the metal often separates in lustrous laminae. A soft, yellow gold sponge is produced by addition of a small proportion of oxalic acid and a large proportion of potassium carbonate to a concentrated solution, the resulting mixture being then boiled with more oxalic acid."

I haven't been able to experiment with it yet, but it's interesting.

Dave


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 30, 2015)

Like Harold, once in awhile, when dropping gold I got this beautiful display of bright shiny gold particles floating around in these swirling patterns. I never could figure out what I did different. It was like it popped up at random.

As far as the video is concerned, it appears to be total BS. It doesn't look to me like gold at all. If anything, it looks more like silver. Actually though, it looks like something worthless made to move a bit with a little heat.

One of these days I'll tell you about the 2 years I spent working with a guy, all day, every day, that fancied himself as an alchemist. If you asked him what he was, he would say an alchemist.


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## black sands (Jan 31, 2015)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Irons made a post a few months ago in the Iron(II) chloride to Iron(II) sulfate thread that caught my interest. It may provide a bit of insight.


Great info! Thanks for adding it to the thread. I wonder if the potassium carbonate works due to raising the pH, or if the molecular components are the key.





goldsilverpro said:


> As far as the video is concerned, it appears to be total BS. It doesn't look to me like gold at all. If anything, it looks more like silver. Actually though, it looks like something worthless made to move a bit with a little heat.


You really think those golden particles look more like silver than gold? I guess you are referring to what is called "allotropic silver", which can have a golden color. Or are you leaning towards the idea of it not being a precipitation at all, but just particles thrown into a solution? That's what I thought at first, but it sure looks like the particles are growing near the surface before settling. It would probably be easier to tell what's happening if we could watch the video at high speed. But I'm not sure how to do that with a youtube video.



goldsilverpro said:


> One of these days I'll tell you about the 2 years I spent working with a guy, all day, every day, that fancied himself as an alchemist. If you asked him what he was, he would say an alchemist.


Ha! How on earth did you last so long with such a partner? What's the craziest thing he ever said to you?....other than "I'm an Alchemist".


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## jason_recliner (Jan 31, 2015)

black sands said:


> Or are you leaning towards the idea of it not being a precipitation at all, but just particles thrown into a solution? That's what I thought at first, but it sure looks like the particles are growing near the surface before settling.


That was also my first thought. The beaker sides are very conveniently caked with opaque gunk and I would not be even mildly surprised if there were gold flakes dumped onto the surface.


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## Geo (Jan 31, 2015)

If it's a fake, someone really put some effort into it to stump so many people that have seen first hand precipitations. The gold color could come from the red liquid. Silver foils would reflect the same light from that color solution. How many silver colored metals come out of solution shiny?


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## artart47 (Jan 31, 2015)

Hi friends!
It was durring a time when I had so much gold bearing stuff comming in and was recovering and refining day and night (Not real large batches) also, I was doing all the material that I had stockpiled. I have no notes from that short time so, I recalling from memory.
I had one drop from an HCl/Cl disolution that produced the familiar tan gold powder but it was speckeled with a lot of pretty good sized gold crystals mixed in the powder. The remarkable thing was that there was also extreamly small gold crystals that nearly covered the surface of the solution. When I was washing the powder i could tap the beaker to bring a lot of the metalic gold to one side of the beaker. Like panning.
I remember that that perticular batch was in a beaker that had some scratches on the inside that would always collect gold powder, this time the scratches had gold powder and many gold crystals in them.
I woundered at the time if the scratched had seeded the growth of the metalic gold.
artart47


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## Anonymous (Jan 31, 2015)

Geo said:


> I've also noticed that everyone that reports having this happen used H2SO4 somewhere in the process. I'm not sure that it has anything to do with it though as most everyone uses it before precipitating gold.




Not me mate. I have never used H2SO4 in the processes that resulted in this effect.


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 31, 2015)

The term, allotropic silver, is one of those BS alchemy terms that in the real world are meaningless. The only way to change the color of metallic silver throughout is to alloy another metal with it.


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## black sands (Jan 31, 2015)

Thanks for the additional info artart47.




Geo said:


> If it's a fake, someone really put some effort into it to stump so many people that have seen first hand precipitations.


I agree. This is why I think it is a precipitation. If it wasn't, I think it would be more obvious to the experienced members here.




goldsilverpro said:


> The term, allotropic silver, is one of those BS alchemy terms that in the real world are meaningless. The only way to change the color of metallic silver throughout is to alloy another metal with it.


It looks like these scientists didn't have any problem replicating it.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0047720673900058

The discoverer (M. Carey Lea) was an elected member of the National Academy of Sciences. I wouldn't call him an alchemical BS artist.


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## butcher (Jan 31, 2015)

http://www.chemistryexplained.com/A-Ar/Allotropes.html 

Allotropes are different forms of the same element. Different bonding arrangements between atoms result in different structures with different chemical and physical properties. Allotropes occur only with certain elements, in Groups 13 through 16 in the Periodic Table.


B	C	N	O
Al	Si	P	S
Ga	Ge	As	Se
In	Sn	Sb	Te
Tl	Pb	Bi	Po

Carbon can be in the form of a diamond, a different form of carbon, with different physical properties, I have never heard of silver doing any like that. I cannot find any evidence of silver forming an allotrope of silver. getting a different form of silversalt in a chemical reaction would not make it an allotrope.


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## black sands (Feb 1, 2015)

You would think it's all BS considering we never hear about it nowadays. But then I find it strange that published scientists would discuss it in a serious manner in peer-reviewed journals, including numerous methods of preparation. Doesn't really matter, I'm not that interested in gold colored silver. :lol:


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## Geo (Feb 1, 2015)

It basically comes down to practicality. Can you get gold from sea water? sure, but there's no practical way of doing it. Nuclear scientist may get very excited to find a new element in an atom smasher but if it takes a nuclear explosion to make a measurable amount, why would any of us really care? This carries over from my original take on it. If it were a member here, we could ask about it and try to replicate it. Without the input of the person that made the video, every hypothesis or guess just invites others to try and refute it. Topics that have a question that can not be answered will eventually cause a disruption. Of course this is just my opinion and we all know about those.


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## patnor1011 (Feb 1, 2015)

I can second that. I managed to drop gold with significant amount of golden particles among usual tan mud using just smb.


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## black sands (Feb 4, 2015)

Geo said:


> Without the input of the person that made the video, every hypothesis or guess just invites others to try and refute it. Topics that have a question that can not be answered will eventually cause a disruption.



I agree. Just thought some of the pros here might have witnessed a similar looking precipitation and could share their experience.


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## Lou (Feb 4, 2015)

I skimmed this thread.

I too have had gold form platelets/crystallites in this fashion, mostly when I was using a selective organic precipitant.


I would say that factors to achieve such a result would be:

1. Lower concentration
2. Slow growth of nucleates
3. Presence of chelators (for instance, Versenol 120 perhaps even sulfamic or EDTA) to manage the growth.


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## black sands (Feb 5, 2015)

Lou said:


> I skimmed this thread.
> 
> I too have had gold form platelets/crystallites in this fashion, mostly when I was using a selective organic precipitant.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your experience Lou. Do you think the posted video is showing a precipitation? If so, doesn't the solution look pretty concentrated?


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 5, 2015)

WARNING!! This is meant to be a story and not a set of instructions. When I did this, I was young and fearless. I still am fairly fearless but there are certain things I won't do. There probably are some dangers in the below process. Should one have concerns about adding the acetone to the AR? Will it explode under certain conditions? Are any of the gases produced toxic? It had a strong unique stink about it. This is a don't-try-this-yourself story, is what I want to say.

Story:
After reading Lou's post and thinking back on this, I did find a method (in the 60s) that would produce those swirling beautiful crystals every time. I dissolved about an ounce or two of pure gold in AR, added some acetone, put it all in a beaker on a magnetic stirrer, and dropped the gold with a form of EDTA, Versonol 120, an alkaline, syrupy, liquid chelating agent made by Dow. When V120 combines with AR, some formaldehyde is released. The formaldehyde (I think) is what drops the gold.

I've seen gold crystals form occasionally in the refinery but these were the most beautiful. I stuck a glass slide in it, let it dry and then looked at the gold crystals, at about 1000-1200 power under the huge B&L Metallograph that we had at work. The crystals were mostly all separated into brilliant perfect hexagons of like size. I almost needed sun glasses to look at them.


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## black sands (Feb 5, 2015)

Awesome GSP! Great info for the thread. 

Even though this thread was started because of a video that's based on false premises, I still think it's good to compile different experiences with precipitating gold in this beautiful form. There doesn't seem to be much literature on the specific subject.


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## NobleMetalWorks (Feb 10, 2015)

Very interesting speculation...

I can comment on the BDG speculation:



g_axelsson said:



> You wanted to know how to precipitate gold as flakes? As I understand it (never done it myself) oxalic acid precipitation of gold from a butyldiglyme gold chloride solution falls as small golden flakes. I don't see any proof of that in the video though.
> 
> Göran



I have used Butyldiglyme (BDG) often and to good effect. During my own process, and I suspect this is probably most likely the case with most of the processes where BDG is used to extract gold from an acidic solution, just prior to reducing the gold I wash it with HCl. This removes any of the other metals that may have carried over into the BDG. After this part of the process, the solution is a very nice gold to orange-ish gold color, but I have yet to see it ever as red as this video looks. Also, BDG is an oily solvent, I have yet to see anything stick to the sides of the reaction vessels when I use this process. Also, when Oxalic acid is added, it's a reduction process that causes the gold to clump, not flake, although it does sometimes float.

A few things that bother me about what the poster as written are thus. First, the poster describes themselves as being an artist, "Elias the Artist", which might be the first hint that this is not real, but rather a performance piece by a self proclaimed artist of sorts. Although I have not spent the time attempting to google this artist, nor the name of this proclaimed alchemy (which is a bunch of crap by the way) process, "VITRIOL of the MOON & MERCURY " does also lead me to believe that "Vitriol" if referring to chemistry would be iron or copper sulfate salts and their derivative, sulfuric acid. This would explain the red color if in fact it is iron in the solution. Mercury is self explanatory but as for the "moon" I am not sure what they might refer to, a moon cycle perhaps, 24 hour period?

Regardless....

This type of precipitation, if it is in fact gold, can be explained as being many different things causing the visual affects and precipitation. For example, some amino acids will cause gold to collect to a specific size and then precipitate, but this does not seem to be the case in this video. The way whatever material it is, makes it's way to the bottom would lead me to believe that what we see and assume as being shiny, isn't metal at all, but air bubbles. And the thickness of the precipitated material on the bottom is not compact, it's actually very finely divided gold, if it is in fact gold at all. I have seen this exact type of precipitation of gold many times, as I use this process myself. Here are a few pictures, although my lab glass is clean, you can imagine if it was not. And the solution can become very red if the solution is reduced, or too much of the precipitant is used. Here are the pictures:

In this one you can see very finely divided gold, with air bubbles included. This would be after about 30 min - 1 hour of precipitation. Also notice how much precipitated gold there seems to be on the bottom. To give some perspective, this is in a 1000 ML beaker. This is approx 1.2 grams of gold.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56505223/2012-09-29 04.08.06.jpg

In this picture you can actually see the gold collecting on the top of the solution, notice how the gold looks to be crystals, but in fact it is not. Also notice how the air bubbles are under the precipitated gold. The gold is actually floating as you will see in the next picture.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56505223/2012-09-29 04.08.19.jpg

I am adding this picture just for reference and interest. This is what the picture above looks like from a birds eye view looking down into the beaker:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56505223/2012-09-29 04.06.18.jpg

It looks like a lot of gold, but in fact it is actually very very little. You can see it is very finely divided.

Depending on how much of the precipitant is added, the temp of the solution, how saturated the solution is, etc you will get different color solution, sometimes darker red, sometimes lighter. I am not sure why someone would apply heat, but if they did so, the precipitant would accumulate and create garbage on the sides.

One last thing I would like to mention. When this particular precipitate is added, under the right conditions, if there is excess acid present, it will cause a black bubbling on the top similar to what you might see if you add SMB to a solution of AR with unspent Nitric acid. That would account for the black dots around the upper part of the inside of the beaker in the video. This is what I suspect happened.

Someone dissolved a dirty or alloyed material in an AR solution that was made traditionally, being that the "artist" did not add as much nitric as needed, but instead made a traditional solution 1:3. Because the alloy was not dissolving fast enough, heat was applied to dissolve whatever they were attempting to dissolve. There was very very little gold actually involved, if we use my picture as an example it is most likely there is far less than a gram, or even half gram total. I am just guessing, but this seems to me to be the case. So while the solution was still hot, too hot to be adding a precipitant, hydroquinone was added. Because there was too much nitric acid still in solution, because they used a 1:3 ration instead of only adding as much as was needed, when the hydroquinone was added, it reacted with the Nitric acid and bubbled up black. Because the beaker was still too hot, it made a gunky mess on the sides of the beaker, and the black dots on the side of the baker, are actually where the hydroquinone foamed up to. Because the gold was so finely divided, air bubbles were able to form within the finely divided gold matrix. As more and more finely divided gold collected, the precipitated gold would weigh heavy enough to drag it down to the bottom of the beaker. Because we are forced to watch this process through dirty glass, it causes the bubbles to look like shiny gold, or silver but this is only because the poster has suggested this is what it is. If we were to look at this video not thinking it to be shiny gold being precipitated or transmuted from a solution, we might think something totally different.

In any case, that's my own two cents. I have seen this reaction enough times to be almost certain that this is what it is, however I may not be correct in my assumptions and must be fair in stating I could be utterly wrong. But it does seem to be the most plausible in my mind.

The white material that looks to be something crusty, could be residual from makeup, as hydroquinone is an ingredient commonly found in makeup, and might be the source for the video posters precipitant. Although I cannot be sure because I use lab grade hydroquinone.

Scott


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## black sands (Feb 10, 2015)

Thanks for the great details Scott. I think silver was referred to as "luna" or "moon" during the old times.


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