# Proprietary Information - Backdoors



## rusty (Oct 3, 2010)

Please no arguments, I love this forum but sometimes hesitate to keep information regrading some of my projects live - why have I decided to delete them.

The reasons are since it became evident members were communicating behind closed doors it pissed me, this is after all a PUBLIC FORUM, just under the GRF tittle it says Refiners helping one another. In my opinion the concept was good in the beginning but has since become a mockery, I would like to see the forum once again as in the beginning in full disclosure fully public no secrets - make the world proud.

It's not because I feel important,nothing I have made in the way of equipment is proprietary. I have nothing new to add in the way of science, I'm here to learn not to be abused or abuse other members. I'm perhaps blunt at times in my replies but this is who I am, if you would like to exclude me from your reading list add me as foe.

It would be appreciated that should I start a thread asking for ideas or showing a piece of homemade equipment I have built to keep the wife out of it or any other snide remarks. If you have nothing constructive to add do not reply. I may not share your sense of humor.

I do understand the need to keep insider information off the record, proprietary formulas and process's and sources where you obtain your scrap but hey we're just a bunch of back yarders thrown in with a hand full of professionals who are hoping one of us will be a success at refining on the small scale or even make it big.

Please remember these are only my opinions.

As for me wanting to abandon my other account, I had my reasons hopefully you will accept that and respect my privacy on the matter.

Best Regards
Gill


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## 4metals (Oct 3, 2010)

Gill,

I think that you are among the more talented members of this forum when it comes to working with your hands. And I agree to a point that taking a productive topic private hurts those that were following and benefiting from a thread. But there is a limit, I agree that if 2 members decide to go off on their own and develop a unique tool or technique after benefiting from the labors of those who pioneered the project and shared it freely, that is wrong. But if 2 members decide to privately discuss the more mundane details which have been covered countless times on the forum, that's a good thing. Many times I have PM'd members to just answer a simple question and help to prevent the forum from filling up with repeat basics. 

The one thing that you have done in the past is to remove posts or details from the forum. That is annoying as it makes threads hard to follow. I can understand editing, I cannot understand complete removal of posts. We all have the power to not reply to a post which we feel has gone awry. Just like in the real world, sometimes the best thing to say is nothing. 

I do not understand why you had to re-appear under another name but I also do not know all of the details to judge you either way, besides judging is never a good practice, someone always gets bent out of shape. I always read your posts under your other posting name because quite frankly you've made some nice stuff and I felt you had something to contribute, I guess now I'll have to look for postings by Rusty to see what you've built. I would hope in the future you could please not completely remove postings, it is disruptive and your input in the past has been valuable to the forum. 

Welcome to the forum Rusty, may your tenure here be productive as it had been in the past.


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## Chumbawamba (Oct 3, 2010)

Gill,

It seems to me you're trying to communicate something to the GRF community but are having a tough time of it. Here's my suggestion.

Please type up a General Community Guidelines as you would like it to be. In other words, here's your chance to expound your vision of how the GRF community should act with regards to: public information (what should and shouldn't be), proprietary trade data (when it should be used, what constitutes theft of it, etc.), sharing of knowledge and tricks, communication between members, handling disputes, etc.

If Noxx made you Hammurabi of GRF, what would be your Code?

We can all then debate it, adopt it, and abide by it.

Fair enough?


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 3, 2010)

There are about a half dozen topics that I won't talk about in any detail on an open forum. One is my unique methods of processing jet engine scrap and another is the solution used to selectively dissolve only the gold plating and gold braze, and nothing else, from CPU packages. I am the sole inventor of these and I consider them my personal property. The CPU solution took a year of experimentation to come up with. These processes have been the basis of 2 very successful businesses.

In my mind, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. I owe nothing to anyone. Any information I give to this forum is a gift. What I withhold is strictly my business. 

As a one time believer in Ayn Rand's philosophy, I hate altruism and love capitalism. Not the phony baloney capitalism that has evolved in the US, but capitalism in its purest form. If anyone wants these processes that I don't discuss, they are for sale.


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## rusty (Oct 3, 2010)

goldsilverpro said:


> There are about a half dozen topics that I won't talk about in any detail on an open forum. One is my unique methods of processing jet engine scrap and another is the solution used to selectively dissolve only the gold plating and gold braze, and nothing else, from CPU packages. I am the sole inventor of these and I consider them my personal property. The CPU solution took a year of experimentation to come up with. These processes have been the basis of 2 very successful businesses.
> 
> In my mind, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. I owe nothing to anyone. Any information I give to this forum is a gift. What I withhold is strictly my business.
> 
> As an one time believer in Ayn Rand's philosophy, I hate altruism and love capitalism. Not the phony baloney capitalism that has evolved in the US, but capitalism in its purest form. If anyone wants these processes that I don't discuss, they are for sale.



Chris your intellectual property has never been an open topic on this or any other forum that I'm aware of. I'm certainly privy via this forum by your own submission, that you have the knowledge and the means to process precious metals in a unique and profitable manor.

To the best of my knowledge your process's have never been spoken with any member from this forum publically or in private and would never expect you to divulge into these topics just because you know them. 

I would hope you have anyone with whom you do wish discuss your procedures with sign a non disclosure agreement..

I think 4metals got it right when he read my post he managed to shift through my lack of social skills and poor use of the English language in communicating my thoughts. And I would like to direct you once again to his post above.

Best Regards
Gill


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Oct 4, 2010)

Ohhh yeah!!!!...let us keep undeveloped all our secrets,let us stop sharing all our new researches,let us sell our knowledge to the highest bidder,in one word...let us go back to the past!!!!

No way...It is time to share...information means power,let us power all GRF Members.

I deeply respect GSP´s point of view but I disagree with him when he says that he hates altruism..a man that shares with us his life time hands on experience in PM recovery is a great altruistic man ,this man is Mr.Chris Owen,better konwn as GSP.A selfish man does not gift anything to anybody,GSP has given to us 3416 useful posts...I am sure that one day (I do not know when) GSP will post all his secrets.

Manuel


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## Anonymous (Oct 4, 2010)

Juan Manuel Arcos Frank said:


> Ohhh yeah!!!!...let us keep undeveloped all our secrets,let us stop sharing all our new researches,let us sell our knowledge to the highest bidder,in one word...let us go back to the past!!!!


Hang on juan.I believe there are more people here that will agree with chris on this,than disagree.
The whole reason I asked gil to post his ball mill again,was because It was a very well made "introductory" model for any recreactional refiner.That is the whole reason I didn't post mine.I took my first ball mill and advanced and advanced.Granted it could use some improving still,but my best friend is the only other person that knows about it or has set eyes on it.I have no problems with helping "steer" someone in the right direction,but I have a couple of tricks that I keep all to me.Anything that I learned on this forum I am grateful for,however I feel it was simply a stepping stone to get to where I am today.If you are not moving forward,you are either stagnant,or moving in reverse.
Chris,and any other person on here,has every right to keep whatever info they want to themselves.What you wrote makes you sound selfish,I am not saying that you are,I am just saying that it sounds like you are.
If everyone knew it all,then we would never end up with cheap,or free, scrap.


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## rusty (Oct 4, 2010)

Let's not twist this out of shape, keep it forum related - PLEASE.


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## 4metals (Oct 4, 2010)

Mic,

Ball mills have been around since the dawn of time, Fred Flintstone used one down at the quarry. If you think that you have come up with something so unique that it has never been seen, maybe you just haven't seen enough ball mills. There are so many different feeding and emptying mechanisms for mills it will make you dizzy. By saying what you said you have probably cost yourself more than you will know. Nobody likes to share knowledge with someone who uses them as a steppingstone only to move on and snub the group from which so much was gained. 

If I want to buy a ball mill, I'll go to Paul O Abbe and get the best, most efficient, long lasting mill on the market so your silence won't effect me. It's the small one man operators who can benefit from innovation and they are no threat to each other or to you. 

Enjoy your mill, but don't expect too much help when you really need it. This forum is for refiners helping refiners, not a stepping stone to bigger things.


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## Anonymous (Oct 4, 2010)

So funny,this went from me sticking up for chris,to being told not to expect any help if I ever need it.
4metals,you took what I said out of context and twisted my words and placed insinuations in there.I would suggest you leave it alone.There was no harm intended by what I wrote.I agree with chris whole heartedly,are you going to tell him,that he should not expect any help when he needs it,simply because he has a few ideas that he has chosen not to divulge?!?!?
I think NOT!So don't say it to me!


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## Harold_V (Oct 4, 2010)

What the hell----has everyone gone mad here? 

How about we get back to the topic of choice, precious metals, and leave the acrimony behind?

Harold


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## HAuCl4 (Oct 4, 2010)

Today I patented nitric acid. You are now warned not to use it without paying me a 100% royalty. :lol:

Lighten up guys... 8)


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## joem (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm worried that this forum will be shut because of bickering. I'm new(ish) to this type of recovery and this forum, but have found the information worth it's weight in gold and have donated to the forum to keep it going financially. Please let us get on with the sharing of info, keep what you want to keep and share what you want to share and get happy again.
I have respect for all of you and find useful info in any post, thanks


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## rusty (Oct 4, 2010)

Chumbawamba said:


> Gill,
> 
> If Noxx made you Hammurabi of GRF, what would be your Code?
> 
> ...



For one I would never have allowed linking to private websites taking members off site is non appreciating and unhealthy for GRF as a whole. I have always been bothered by the fact I have promoted GRF actively in my ebay listings inviting new people to join this wonderful forum.

I can not deny the good information and videos that accompany the intent but can not feel at the same time the forum's membership suffers for it with so many members asking questions and getting replies privately we are left in the dark. These Q and A's really should be posted here on GRF unless it's in the form of private tutelage.

On another note there are members who would rather give instructions on refining via email or by PM ask yourself WHY. 

We have many very knowledgeable moderators who fortunately for us the GRF community are talented in the arts of refining, all of which give us sound advice for the asking along with the task of baby sitting when things get out of hand.

If one GRF member decided to take the given information from one of our professional refiners then write a book exploiting that mans talents for his own profit . I can only imagine how that man would feel.

In essence this is how I feel about the GRF, my talents are mechanical. my posts can be interesting so I'm told. When our members are taken off site I feel exploited.

Now you guys can lay into me, maybe use the PM or email function to keep it tame on the forum after all we do have some female members. 

If your on-line hello Yvonne, I miss your presence you always had something interesting to say or ask.

The next time I leave I will leave you with my posts fully intact. You can expect one more thread by me with pictures and a short video along with a breif description of my centrifugal liquid extractor. Inappropriately named filter which it is not.


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## Harold_V (Oct 5, 2010)

joem said:


> I'm worried that this forum will be shut because of bickering.


Do not fear. Before I allow anyone to destroy that which has been created here, I'll personally kick a little butt. It takes but a key stroke to ban a reader----a function with which I am very familiar. 

You guys park your damned egos and get back to the subject matter of this board. I've seen enough from all of you. 


And-----if you can't *play nice*, please leave the forum and save me the trouble of seeing you off. 
Harold


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