# Gold plated china and glass



## Dog Biscuit

Sometime back someone asked about gold plated china and glass. I have accumulated several pounds of this material. It's available everywhere. My favorite places are thrift stores and yard sales. The pictures below show some of the "good stuff" out there. I paid less than $1.50 for the lot. The price sticker, on the plate, came from a retail store where the plate didn't sell. 

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Ooopsiemybad/JunkStoreGold003.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Ooopsiemybad/JunkStoreGold002.jpg

See "Techniques" for my precessing method.


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## aflacglobal

Hey, Now that i haven't seen.


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## goldsilverpro

Figure about $.30 per square inch on the decorated glass. Figure about $.15 for gold leaf on art objects. The statue looks plated. If is is, figure on $.45/square inch. If it's not, it's $.15.


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## Dog Biscuit

I began my quest for gold about two years ago with the acquisition of Megan Rose's material. As you can see in the pictures, I collected anything remotely resembling gold. Then reality hit. I had no idea how to recover the gold, and got no help from the "tutor".

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Ooopsiemybad/Low-yield.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Ooopsiemybad/Low-yield001.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Ooopsiemybad/Low-yield002.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Ooopsiemybad/High-yield.jpg

When I hit upon using AR, I was elated. I processed the entire batch with 2 cups Nitric Acid and 6 cups Muriatic.

Here is the result, a beautiful, but tiny .7 gram button.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Ooopsiemybad/Glasswarenuggets002.jpg

My conclusion on the project: Processing is quick and inexpensive. I think Muriatic Acid/Chlorox may work and be cheaper yet. There is gold, and most of the time this material costs almost nothing. The yield is small, but if you can't bear throwing good gold in the trash, go for it.


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## jimmy759

Alot of china wear is easy to get ahold of for next to nothing and in most cases free. chipped china has no value but if it is gold flked then it does.

I got a bout a pound of paper book ends i have been collecting from old moldy encyclopedias. i'm hoping it has some yield to it as where i live i can get piles of encyclopedias for free.


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## badastro

Where is a good place to get high yield ceramics? Places usually don't sell broken stuff.


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## Dog Biscuit

Most of the higher yield material I processed here came from a Good Will outlet store. This is the last stop for donated materials before they are sent to a landfill. If you go to a retail store, expect to pay higher prices.

If you check the pictures, you will see one piece with a price sticker from a retail store. It did not sell there and made it to the outlet facility. I paid .39 cents a pound (around .45 cents).


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## golddigger

I own one of these Savoy China vases, and will run a recovery and post results in mid January.

The method will be via running the vase through a ball mill, and AR extraction. I will post full results after completion.

Here is an interesting ebay link (not mine), I just found it when I was investigating my vase. Be sure to check out the other items at the bottom of the linked page.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Savoy-China-Weeping-Gold-Set-of-Four-Vases_W0QQitemZ250200018800QQihZ015QQcategoryZ4232QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If the link does not work, run an ebay search on "Savoy China Weeping Gold"

[email protected]


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## lazersteve

Golddigger,

I ran a few gold plated teapots back when this thread was first posted.

I used HCl-Cl and lowered the whole teapots right in. About 70% of the gold stripped off in two passes of ten minutes each.

If you use an AR bath you probably won't need to destroy the vases to get 100% of the gold from them.

Just a thought.

Steve


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## macfixer01

golddigger said:


> I own one of these Savoy China vases, and will run a recovery and post results in mid January.
> 
> The method will be via running the vase through a ball mill, and AR extraction. I will post full results after completion.
> 
> Here is an interesting ebay link (not mine), I just found it when I was investigating my vase. Be sure to check out the other items at the bottom of the linked page.
> 
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Savoy-China-Weeping-Gold-Set-of-Four-Vases_W0QQitemZ250200018800QQihZ015QQcategoryZ4232QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> 
> If the link does not work, run an ebay search on "Savoy China Weeping Gold"
> 
> [email protected]




Hi,
I'm also interested in removing gold plate from china. I agree with Steve though that dipping would seem to be the best method. Personally I'm not concerned with keeping the china intact. However ball milling it would create a fine powdery mess that would probably plug up filters pretty quickly. Besides if it's not necessary why waste the time? You could decrease the amount of solution needed by breaking the item into chunks if necessary. I also wonder if heating might allow the HCL-Chlorox to dissolve the gold completely without resorting to AR?

On another note, does anyone know if gold plated china items with the "weeping gold" effect contain more gold than non-textured ones? Since it's just a glaze effect, I assume it has to be thicker where the drips are? If the gold somehow all migrates to the surface though, it might not make much difference.

macfixer01


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## Fragum

> I ran a few gold plated teapots back when this thread was first posted.
> 
> I used HCl-Cl and lowered the whole teapots right in. About 70% of the gold stripped off in two passes of ten minutes each.



Steve,

What ratio of HCL to CL did you use?

Mike


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## lazersteve

The HCl-Cl reaction doesn't really require specific ratios to be effective. The main idea is to produce dissolved chlorine gas, but only enough to get the job done. 

Any excess chlorine gas produced is lost as an off gas that creates handling problems. 

The chlorine gas is produced by the reaction of HCl and clorox.

To answer your question about the teapots:

I poured 200 mL of HCl into a 1 L beaker. I lowered the mini-teapot into the HCl and then added approximately 5 mL of clorox. I swirled the flask until the no more bubbles formed. I let the teapot soak for 5 minutes and added another 5 mL of clorox and repeated the soak. I continued this process until the bulk of the gold was stripped from the teapot. I precipitated the solution with SMB.

Steve


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## Fragum

Thanks again Steve!


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## eagle2

Hi Steve:

I`m wondering how you prepared the solution before precipitating with SMB.

Did you heat the solution to drive off most of the residual Cl? 

Also it would need neutralizing to around Ph 1.5 to 3. First I heat the solution to near boiling then add some salt, to help keep the Gold in solution, 

My method of neutralizing is to use dilute NaOH at first, then a Carbonate, and finally dilute Sodium Bicarbonate.

Somewhere, long ago I vaguely remember reading an article in the `Chemical Abstracts` where the author discussed dissolving Gold with HCl-Cl.

He claimed you had to evaporate the entire solution to dryness, to eliminate all traces of free Chlorine, before you could get quantitative results.

Al


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## lazersteve

Al,

Many of the steps you mention about preparing your pregnant HCl-Cl solution for SMB precipitation are not necessary at all. 

The key to proper precipitation is that your solution is not completely saturated with Cl2 gas. If it is this can easily be removed with gentle heating for 10 or 20 minutes.

I *never* perform any pH tests or neutralization reactions (sodium bicarb, sodium hydroxide, etc.) to the HCl-Cl solution.

I *never* evaporate the HCl-Cl solution to dryness. 

I *never* add salt to my HCl-Cl solutions.

I seldom have to heat the HCl-Cl solution to drive off any excess chlorine. 

The best way to get your gold to completely precipitate the first time, every time, is to control the amount of chlorine (Clorox) you add. 

If you choose to use 'Super Bleach', the chlorine generated by the addition of the bleach will be double or more and will require you to remove the extra chlorine generated.

There is a saying in Chemistry which is counter intuitive to normal human behaviour it is :

*"More is not always better"*

Chemical reactions are driven by the proper proportions of ingredients and reaction conditions. Adding too much of, or unnecessary ingredients, in an attempt to make a 'better' reaction can cause undesirable results. In my book this falls into the 'GIGO' category. Even if a chemical compound is part of a given reaction, too much of it is considered garbage with respect to the overall reaction results. 

Think of a reaction as a nice stew, too much of any one ingredient (salt for example) ruins the stew, not enough does the same. :wink: 

Steve


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## eagle2

Thanks for the info Steve!

But I`m wondering, If you don`t do any Ph adjustment. you are precipitating from concentrated HCL. 

Unless their is so much Gold Trichloride (and base metals) in solution that the majority of the HCL has been used up? 

SMB is generally thought to precip Gold best at a minimum Ph of 1. And as the Gold precips the Ph tends to go even lower. Too low of a Ph and you are not supposed to get a complete precip.

I do admit I sometimes tend to get lost in the woods (of stew). :? 

Al


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## shadybear

I would say be sure you check the price if it is good shape before you process. Some of the weeping gold pieces and the savoy can be worth more than the scrap gold value.


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## Anonymous

Hello all,

This is my first post and the best thing I did in my opinion was register for this site. What a ton of information from you folks. Continuing my high on information...

I have several pieces of gold plated / gilded pottery. All pieces are completely covered and are marked 22 karat gold - hand painted. 

Is this worth processing if I accumulate several pounds of material? How much gold is really on the pottery or how much would you estimate it will yield much of the lot consists of vases and tea pots. I figured it will have more gold than PM chips etc since the chips are plated with a fine (finer) amount. I don't mind the cost really, as I do a little at time as far as purchasing, I don’t care about selling my recoveries, just finding the gold and having a fun hobby.

I saw the web video and the gentleman processed 6 ounces of chips, yielding a 3 gram button in the end. Any information, thoughts, opinions etc will be helpful. 

Aaron


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## macfixer01

taylora said:


> Hello all,
> 
> This is my first post and the best thing I did in my opinion was register for this site. What a ton of information from you folks. Continuing my high on information...
> 
> I have several pieces of gold plated / gilded pottery. All pieces are completely covered and are marked 22 karat gold - hand painted.
> 
> Is this worth processing if I accumulate several pounds of material? How much gold is really on the pottery or how much would you estimate it will yield much of the lot consists of vases and tea pots. I figured it will have more gold than PM chips etc since the chips are plated with a fine (finer) amount. I don't mind the cost really, as I do a little at time as far as purchasing, I don’t care about selling my recoveries, just finding the gold and having a fun hobby.
> 
> I saw the web video and the gentleman processed 6 ounces of chips, yielding a 3 gram button in the end. Any information, thoughts, opinions etc will be helpful.
> 
> Aaron




Aaron,
Recovering 3 Grams from 6 Ounces of chips would be quite a haul! I'm not saying it's impossible but to contain that much gold I believe they would probably have to be specialized Mil Spec components, not the common PC processor types we mostly talk about here. I'd be interested in seeing that video you're referring to, do you have a link?

You might try the Search function here on the forum for more info on recovering gold from ceramic and porcelain. I seem to recall someone here estimated 30 to 40 Cents per square inch? I could be wrong, again that's just from memory and gold is higher now than when the post was written. If I find the information I'll see if I can direct you to it.

Welcome aboard,
macfixer01


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## Anonymous

Mac,

Sorry for the late reply I was busy with work this week. The website is http://www.goldrecovery.us/ and is Lazer Steve's Gold Refinging Page. I'm sure he said 3 gram button or had 3 grams of powder gold. I'll wait till you reply, you know what your looking for. Anyway if you have not already seen the site it is pretty interesting watching the man work on refining. It is great for new comers like me to watch also. Good info and he stresses safety with his process. 

Regards,

Aaron


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## macfixer01

taylora said:


> Mac,
> 
> Sorry for the late reply I was busy with work this week. The website is http://www.goldrecovery.us/ and is Lazer Steve's Gold Refinging Page. I'm sure he said 3 gram button or had 3 grams of powder gold. I'll wait till you reply, you know what your looking for. Anyway if you have not already seen the site it is pretty interesting watching the man work on refining. It is great for new comers like me to watch also. Good info and he stresses safety with his process.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Aaron




Hi Aaron,
This is one of those D'Oh! moments. The post I was thinking of was on the first page of this same thread.

Per Goldsilverpro: Figure about $.30 per square inch on the decorated glass. Figure about $.15 for gold leaf on art objects. The statue looks plated. If is is, figure on $.45/square inch. If it's not, it's $.15.

Also I'm well familiar with Lazer Steve's website and yes it's excellent. I think you're way off on both the source material and the starting quantity though. If it's the Ap video you're referring to then he started off with 600 Grams (about 21 Ounces) of edge fingers from ISA cards. He ended up with 3 Grams of impure gold that still needed to be dissolved and precipitated, which would result in a little more loss. He's good but there just aint that much gold to begin with in them thar hills!  

macfixer01


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## lazersteve

Aaron,

Macfixer is right on the money. I've never pulled 3 grams of gold out of a mere 6 ounces of any type of electronic scrap.

Steve


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## jimmy759

Continuing with the subject of gold on dishes or ceramic figurines.

What about scraping the gold off and capturing it for refining.

I have full access to a thrift type business where a lot of gold plated or gold covered plates and the what not are chipped and just thrown out.

I have just started saving this stuff. But because of its weight and bulkiness it is becoming a hinderer on my limited space.


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## Harkey1

hey guys,
I am glad to know that I am not the only one to go to thrift stores buying odd things to process. Today I am stumped. I purchased a plate (ceramic) that was labled "gold foil plated". I have broken it in to pieces to test which method to extract. The first thing I did was to try to go straight to aucl3.
The gold on the bottom of the plate came off great. The top did not budge. the top is more glossy. Iam thinking it has a light coat of poly (urethane). how to easily remove this. I tried to lightly heat a piece and it bubbled and the gold foil stuck to me. I scraped some of the flakes into the solution and it did just floats and does not disolve. Any help?
Thanks
Glenn :?:


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## Harold_V

Just a thought. Perhaps a low temperature glaze, applied after the gold, so it is permanently encased in the glaze?

If that's the case, a trip through a ball mill will free the gold for extraction.

If you were to break the piece and put it in AR, I expect you'd see minor dissolution on the edges. Might be worth a try. 

Harold


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## Harkey1

It all eventually came off after a long soak in Hcl and bleach. It dropped just fine. I have another question. I did the same thing with another platter that said that it was gold leaf plated. It was on a ceramic (clay) type of material. It came off just fine. I am wonderinng if some of the solutions has soaked into the ceramic (clay)? I am thinking about crushing the material and putting it through another Hcl and bleach bath. What would you suggest? that or just a water rinse of the powder?


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## Harold_V

Harkey1 said:


> I am wonderinng if some of the solutions has soaked into the ceramic (clay)?


Stannous chloride is your friend. 



> I am thinking about crushing the material and putting it through another Hcl and bleach bath. What would you suggest? that or just a water rinse of the powder?


I'm assuming you mean the ceramic material. An immediate rinse after dissolution of values should be adequate in removing the values. I expect that you will lose traces, but the only way to effect what would be considered a complete recovery would be to run the material in a ball mill, extract the values, then separate the liquids from the solids via the use of a filter press. including a rinse. Might even have good success with a centrifuge. Beyond that, rinsing several times after extraction might serve the same purpose. The negative aspect is the large volume of solution generated. 

If the material in question is hard fired, it is much like glass. I expect that very little would be lost to absorption. 

Harold


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## Nickpearl

Hi all;
I've experimented also with the ceramic and gold trimmed glasses. I used HCL-peroxide to lift the gold.
It dissolved in the solution, so I dropped with SMB. First time, 1/3 gram - not sure how pure.
Second time, I tried to AR the small amount dropped with SMB from the HCL-Peroxide. Well, it disappeared. I have a clear liquid (no longer yellow) but no precipitate. 
Third time same as second time but used a variety of gold trimmed china and glass. Again after precipitating with SMB, I rinsed the powder and then AR'd it. I then filtered (to remove glue, sealant and other gunk) and precipitated. I now have powder on the bottom of the beaker but the gold also plated the sides of the beaker. I seem to do this alot.
Just wanted to share. I'm a bit nervous in using clorox, I manage to get the occasional whiff of the stuff I do use so obviously I'm not being as careful as I need to. In the meantime, I'll stick with what I know and keep trudging along.


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## Nickpearl

Continuing my third time above with gold-trimmed glassware: The gold that seemed plated on the walls of the beaker came off with boiling, and now I have powder and flakes. I'll dry and melt to see how much I end up with, but it is pretty.


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## Nickpearl

All that flake in the above beaker melted to 2 grains of AU - a whole $7 bucks worth. That from a bag of plates, cups and gold rimmed glasses.
Oh well, sure was fun. I think I'll use the .15 - .20 per square inch measure from now on. I may even go through the bag of dishes to estimate exactly how much went into those precious two grains.


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## goldsilverpro

> All that flake in the above beaker melted to 2 grains of AU - a whole $7 bucks worth. That from a bag of plates, cups and gold rimmed glasses.
> Oh well, sure was fun. I think I'll use the .15 - .20 per square inch measure from now on. I may even go through the bag of dishes to estimate exactly how much went into those precious two grains.



Doesn't surprise me in the least.

The thickness of gold is limited on decorative glass or ceramic pieces. It is a dark black/brown liquid (most is made by Englehard under the name "Hanovia Liquid Gold") usually applied by brushing or silkscreen and then fired to burn off the organic matrix, brighten the gold, and make it adhere. If it is applied too thick, it will not cure properly and this can affect the appearance and the adherence to the substrate. Therefore, the gold thickness (or, thinness) is about the same on most all of this type material


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## resabed01

My first attempt at china and glass was about as expected from what I've read here. 175 pieces total of cups, plates, glasses, ashtrays, teapots and so on. I know the number of pieces is irrelevant because it has to do with surface area of the plated portion but counting pieces is my simplified way of keeping track how much I processed. I stripped them with HCL-Cl and in the end I dropped 0.33 grams of powder with SMB. Maybe a bit more is still in the solution because it took a very long time to come down.
I found it labor intensive for two reasons, first because everything needed to be washed before hand to keep dirt and junk out of the solution (I hate washing dishes...lol). The second was it took a long time to dip each piece, agitate, wait, remove and rinse before moving onto the next piece. For my first attempt at this I tried to keep the volume of the stripping solution to a minimum and the vessel I chose somewhat restricted me there. Some larger pieces needed to be dipped two or three times to get all the gold.
The main problem I ran into was during my stripping I found the solution lost it's ability to strip gold after about 1 hour. Then it would be necessary to give it another shot of bleach to get some stripping action happening again. This was fine for the first few times but after 10 to 15 additions of bleach I was starting to wonder about my stripping solution's makeup.
The wife continues to collect all sorts of gold plated glassware. She does so without spending a cent. The stuff is mounting here as we have several large rubbermaid tubs full of the stuff. So it looks like I'll be processing another batch in the spring.
Next time i think I'll find a larger vessel for stripping with so maybe I can dip several smaller pieces together and large objects can dip in one pass. That will make things move along faster.

I was also toying with the idea of taking an old dishwasher and converting it to strip glassware. I've seen them with plastic and stainless steel tubs. Not sure how well they would hold up to the HCL for the short term. Remove whatever base metals not deemed necessary for the stripping, things like the heater would need to go. Then once it's ready, load it up with glassware, Add the HCL to the bottom of the tub and give it a shot of Clorox before shutting the door to run.
With a setup like that one could strip a lot of glassware in a short period of time.


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## qst42know

Any metal inside would be a no-go. Which includes exposed metal of the plastic (sometimes nylon) coated wire racks.

How about a poly drum tumbler? 

You don't care if these items are broken in the process, right?


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## Nickpearl

Thanks Goldsilverpro for your comments, at least I know I'm on the right track. I'll continue since I'm now addicted and plated contacts and gold fill are not as prolific as I like them to be (cost wise).

Resabid01 - Here's what I do with processing and it works fine:
1. Three buckets with lids (the cat litter kind, or any five gallon or so) Four buckets when you count my final clean up before setting in the alley. I drilled holes in the bottom of one and placed it in the second. I fill with my solution, starting with one gal HCL and half gall HP. Then I load it up, cover it, swish it from time to time, and even use a plastic rubber turkey roaster. It sits outside (getting cold) on a 10" square low heat warming thingy (plugs in, not too warm at all).

Time is my friend. Even the larger plates not submerged in the solution will melt their paint off. Takes about a day per batch, maybe two. I'm working on a set I got at auction, 100 pieces, some with thick bands of gold, some with thin. My next experiment will be with entirely gold covered ceramics.

When I'm ready, I either pull the whole top bucket out, let it drain, then dip in third bucket with clear water. Rinse. Then I transfer to another bucket just to clean completely before I pack up and set on my trash can (will be gone before noon). When I'm done, I'll transfer the liquid in the main dipping, plus the first rinse bucket, to a large glass topped jar (huge jelly type jar) and drop with SMB. After all those stages, I'll weigh it, then decide to melt, or to AR, or to split the batch to do both. I assume I should just AR it since pure is what I'm after.

I suspect some gold is not gold at all, or that some have more gold than others. Again, I haven't been too precise in costing all this out, I'm sure I'm paying way to much (40 cents a piece or less, sometimes more for all gold covered ceramics and decorator plates) and the chemicals. Since I'm not working and don't want to, I've got the time. After all, I will get the gold. Hope it goes to like 3-4 thousand an ounce before I kick the bucket.
Hope you find this helpful.
Nick
PS: The reason I like this is the same reason I've tumbled semi-precious stones for 30 years. I set the tumbler with stones and grit and wait 7-10 days. Then I get to see how well I did. Then the next stage. So if I can work, wait, discover, then work, wait, discover, I get satisfaction (most of the time).


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## Nickpearl

qst42know
Active Member
Posts: 2301
Joined: July 15th, 2008, 11:31 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA
November 24th, 2011, 1:13 pm
Re: Gold plated china and glass
Any metal inside would be a no-go. Which includes exposed metal of the plastic (sometimes nylon) coated wire racks.

How about a poly drum tumbler? 

You don't care if these items are broken in the process, right?

Hi Q; actually you might have something there. I have several large rock tumblers. I could easily break up and fill twelve pounds of material.
Anyone know if HCL-HP creates gas?
That's all I'd be worried about.


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## qst42know

Yes chlorine gas in solution, you most likely would need a vent.


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## solar_plasma

I got 1g unrefined but brown gold from 4100 cm2 golden surface of gold painted china, that's 635,5 square inch or 1,573564122738002 mg/sq inch. 

There may be some 10-100 mg left in the solution since it precipitated badly from the large amount of liquid.

I paid 45€. Expensive gold. :lol:


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## goldsilverpro

solar_plasma,

I apologize for being so anal, but your figure of 1,573564122738002 would only be true if the figures of 1g and 4100cm2 were both accurate to 16 significant figures which, of course, they aren't. If the 1g were measured on a balance that only measured to the nearest gram, the answer would be 2 mg/in2, if I remember my math correctly. If I am wrong, someone please correct me. In general, I think the answer can have no more significant figures than any of the numbers used to derive that answer. Calculators give us the idea that their answers are more accurate than they really are.


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## solar_plasma

Sorry, I just copied from the on-screen calculator  ofcourse you are right!


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## Pantherlikher

I have a tough time trying to justify your calculations using so much solution on so little material.
Granted, as a test to see how much should be generally there vs. cost. Unless you grind to powder the starting material. Use various glassware for more acruate results and less solution used, it would be difficult to get accurate results.

For me:
Glassware Free
1gal. HCL $8.
1quart Bleach $3.
3 days washing glassware...Wont go there
I ended up with about a gram of dirty powder and have more then half of both chemicals.

Is it worth the effort? Up to you personally. There are alot of fully covered pieces that would be but few and far between. 
For me, it's adding to the pile so spending the time isn't to bad.
I haven't found the mother load of materials, yet, so I'll keep doing it production line style. As the solution slows and takes to long, I move it to dissolve AP powders and then drop the 1st time.

B.S.


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## solar_plasma

It was material like that, manufactured by different "Bavaria"- manufactures from the 50-60th. There is no effort in it, easy done. I did't want to break it, since my daughter can use it for porcelain painting.

After this experience I would tend to call it low-grade. Maybe smaller gold applications are thicker. I don't know.

I had calculated with 1-10 g. So, I was right with that. :lol: Though I was pretty sure I would get 3 g. :roll: It is definately not worth buying on ebay, even when you shoot it for the lowest possible prices (I did).


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## Pantherlikher

ok... Those are the best of the best as far as yield goes...Obviously fully covered but tend to be hard to find in general. So your results would be the best you can get as far as volume start to finish.

So all gold trimmed glass would be below low yield. Not worth the effort unless free and you don't mind the labor...and washing dishes...

There are alot of speciality whiskey bottles and the like that can have alot covered. 

Thanks for exploring the potential as you do.

B.S.


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## solar_plasma

Nope, compared to the yields I read in this thread, they are absolutely LOW-grade. They just look as if there were much gold.

My theory is that the manufacturers have optimized their processes on that type of china in order to use the absolutely minimum of gold. If there are only spots of gold they will use more common porcelain paint, which is quite thick. The cheapest colour I could find contained 12% gold and costs about 100€/10ml if I remember right. I would guess you can paint 300 cm2 with 10 ml, which would be 1,2g/300cm2.

I had 1g/4100cm2.


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## Pantherlikher

So the machine applied trim for bulk productions would be even less. The Christmas glass mass produced are most common here in the states at local auctions I goto but sometimes I find better hand painted pieces. These are removed faster then when actually washing them. I didn't expect much out of any glass trimmed but some hand painted might give alittle more as it's not a measured amount applied uniformly.

To make things even more interestingly a waste of effort is a show I saw, How it's made, I think that demonstrated how someone came up with a mix that when fired and rubbed, looks identicle to gold trimmed but contained non.

B.S.


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