# help!!



## tillsonburgpicker (Apr 20, 2017)

I collected my foils with acid / peroxide 3 to 1 ratio formula, I had lots of junk with my foil so I decided to make a small batch of new A/P and soak my foil & junk for a couple of days.
Now all I have left is yellow acid and still some junk.  
What do I do??


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## kernels (Apr 20, 2017)

The real answer is to know what you are doing before you do it.

The longer answer is . . .

It seems your gold foils (how many fingers ?) were dissolved into the solution, that gold may still be in the solution, or it could have already cemented out on any base metal remaining in in your junk. What is the junk ? What does it look like ?

You want to test the solution with Stannous Chloride to confirm the gold is in solution.

To get the gold out of solution, your best bet is probably putting a copper bar in there and cementing the gold out, although, I'm not sure what happens when you put a copper bar in copper etch solution. I suspect the copper will still replace the gold in solution. 

Assuming the oxidizer in the solution is depleted, you may also be able to use SMB to drop the gold from the solution.

The gold will cement out as a fine brown powder.

Basically we advise against trying to use some magic ratio of HCl to H2O2, Just use straight HCl and an aquarium air bubbler with a small splash of H2O2 to get things started.

Search the forum, there are numerous posts pretty much exactly like yours.


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## nickvc (Apr 21, 2017)

Kernels has pretty much nailed it, by using too much peroxide you have dissolved your gold, chances are that you have gold in both solutions so test both. As to recovering your gold you could simply add more product allowing the gold to be cemented out as the base metals go into solution, be sure not to add anymore peroxide, it is an oxidiser, add an air bubbler to speed the process up in future.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 21, 2017)

Have to ask

Has your AP solution been running for 3 years?
And what have you been studying in that time? :wink:


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## tillsonburgpicker (Apr 21, 2017)

kernels
Thanks for the reply,
I had almost a pound of fingers and cell phone board, not neatly trimmed  
I use 3/1 ratio and a bubbler!
the junk looked like plastic, green in color and some finger bits.
I will admit I screwed up, I was just too anxious to see something happening.
I will test the solutions and go from there

Topher_osAUrus
I scrap as a way to relax, I don't golf, i don't drink (anymore) I don't smoke, I don,t chase women (anymore) my wife wouldn't like that. :lol: 
I also had Home reno, 3.7 engine rebuid ... an a wife's to do list
I had forgotten about this "Gold Mine" of information that is this Forum but I'm back and will learn before :wink: messing up again :wink: :lol: :G


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## butcher (Apr 22, 2017)

Copper think about how it reacts with gold in solution as ions.

You forced the gold metal to give up its electrons, in the strongly oxidized acid solution. the gasses of the acid forced the oxidation of gold, along with other metals you now have in solution with chloride ions (the reduction of your acid took those electrons from your gold.

A good plan of attack is knowing how to give back the electrons to gold ions to reduce the gold back to elemental atoms (gold metal).

We have a fair range of reducing agents that could work, our job here is to pick the right one, one that will not add trash or extra metal or work to our process, and that will leave most of the other metals in solution in solution.

What are some of the reducing agents of gold?
SO2 gas, or SO2 gas generated by a chemical reagent like SMB, FeSO4 copperas, Zn, FE, Cu, Mg, H2C2O4,
CuCl...

Now with an understanding of a simple chart The reactivity series of metals we see that copper will replace gold (and any metal below copper from solution ( it will reduce or give electrons back, to gold and other valuable metals that are ions in solution, and they become atoms that clump together as black powder brown powders.

Copper here will get you going for now until you try something else. But then you're just stuck scratching your head over the next problem you will run into in the process, the only help will be to ask another group of questions to get you outta that mess.

But copper will not reduce other metal ions (the metals more reactive than copper from solution.
See the reactivity of metals...

There are cures for messes (they are simple), understanding the process and basically what happens, but if you did you would not only make less and fewer messes or run into situations where you're just throwing away your money, your gold and your time not knowing what is going on. 

The real cures for this situation are not only copper metal, I suggest is adding a study and research to the mix, A pound of study is worth gold, actually more than gold because without it I am losing gold.

Learning is most of the fun.

PS you will probably have some other insoluble chloride salts (normally white, possibly, copper chloride, lead chloride, or even silver chloride) mixed in with the gold powders, if you only have a little gold it could be difficult to see or find... problems are endless they will never end.
Spending time in research is your key to success, otherwise, without gaining an understanding we will just constantly bumping into the walls in the dark, with the study we can see where to go and figure out what to do when and improve our skills instead of chasing gold dust through the trash.


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## g_axelsson (Apr 22, 2017)

Most cellphone boards and many finger boards have several buried layers of copper conductors inside the board. There is a clear risk that some of your gold already cemented inside the boards and will be really hard to get at.
If it seems you get too low yield some of your gold can be hiding inside the boards.

Here is an example of what happened to me when I put a circuit board in AR... the gold is still in there, cemented on the copper.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=17697

Göran


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## tillsonburgpicker (Apr 23, 2017)

Thanks to all for the advice of learn before you make more of a mess.
I should have study hard before I attempted to do this, The numerous videos I watched were not enough!
If my stannous test shows gold in the solution, Can I use sodium metabisulfite to precipitate the gold? or is it cemented and gone forever? :?: :?:


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## g_axelsson (Apr 23, 2017)

tillsonburgpicker said:


> If my stannous test shows gold in the solution, Can I use sodium metabisulfite to precipitate the gold? or is it cemented and gone forever? :?: :?:


Oookay... did you think before writing that question?

If your gold is in solution you can use SMB to precipitate it just as normal.
If the gold is cemented it isn't in solution but metal and you can't detect it with stannous.

Gold is never lost until you throw it away, it might be misplaced or mixed up with other materials. The refiner is the one who can find that gold and extract it in a pure form, but it takes a lot of study and not just watching a few youtube videos.

Göran


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## tillsonburgpicker (Apr 25, 2017)

I guess I should stop asking question until I know everything there is to know about refining? :? 
Or at least formulate my question as if I knew what I'm talking about. :lol: 
I don't want to sound negative, but if anyone who ask "questionable" question on this forum, they are made fun of or told to study all the relevant post. :shock:  
... Sorry, just had to vent, tough day at the office and scrapping and gold refining is how I relax.  
I will try to refrain from asking stupid question from now on. :G


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## nickvc (Apr 25, 2017)

The reason we ask newbies to read and study is for their own good and because they learn more than just the one answer we could give, this is a huge subject and no one knows it all but it helps if we all know the basics as it makes life a lot simpler, also remember no one gets paid to answer any questions members or mods so be grateful if you get any response.


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## upcyclist (Apr 25, 2017)

nickvc said:


> The reason we ask newbies to read and study is for their own good and because they learn more than just the one answer we could give.


Here's a hypothetical situation on why short answers don't work: Say you ask for the best method for gold plated material, and someone says cyanide. So you go get some cyanide. Then you ask which chemicals go in the cyanide leach, and we tell you, so you mix it and start chugging away. 

Where did you learn how to handle cyanide safely? Where did you learn why it works? Where did you learn how to safely treat waste cyanide solutions? Where did you learn why you always keep cyanide solutions basic and never acidic? Where did you learn the deadly (not exaggerating) risks of not knowing the answers to the previous questions?


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## tillsonburgpicker (Apr 25, 2017)

Don't get me wrong, I am very grateful, and I am amazed at how much a lot of members know on the subject.
I was just having a lousy day.  I will be more conscientious next time I have a question.


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## nickvc (Apr 25, 2017)

Sometimes a point just will not register however many times you read it so asking but proving you have tried to learn will get a better response than just asking a simple question that many will assume you should know the answer to, we all have to start somewhere but take the advice to read and learn it will save you a world of grief in the long run, we all mess up but the real measure of a master of this art is knowing how to get out of it.


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## jimdoc (Apr 25, 2017)

At this point of the forum's lifetime, every question has been answered already.
Many dozens of times or more. This means that the searchbox is the one to ask first, because you will get your answer and more. And the searchbox will not criticize anyone.

The searchbox is the new members best friend.


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## UncleBenBen (Apr 25, 2017)

jimdoc said:


> The searchbox is the new members best friend.



A few years in and the search box and I are still pretty good pals! :lol: 8)


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 25, 2017)

tillsonburgpicker said:


> I guess I should stop asking question until I know everything there is to know about refining? :?
> Or at least formulate my question as if I knew what I'm talking about. :lol:
> I don't want to sound negative, but if anyone who ask "questionable" question on this forum, they are made fun of or told to study all the relevant post. :shock:
> ... Sorry, just had to vent, tough day at the office and scrapping and gold refining is how I relax.
> I will try to refrain from asking stupid question from now on. :G


tillsonburgpicker, we all understand how frustrating it can be when starting this field of study, especially when you can't seem to get simple answers to simple questions. To help you understand why we make new members "jump through hoops", please take a look at Why Can't I Ask a Simple Question and get a Simple Answer?, then Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum. They were both created to help our new members.

Dave


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## tillsonburgpicker (Apr 25, 2017)

Dave, 
I owe you a big thank you, those links are full of answers to most of my questions.
Thanks


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