# Preview of Electrolytic Process- Equipment List



## lazersteve

Greetings forum members and browsers, 

As promised I'm putting together pictures and videos of the eletrolytic process from scrap to nugget. I'm going to intentionally be brief in this preview in hopes that it will spark some replies and new topic posts from the browsers and members. If I get good feedback on this sample photo I'll move foward with editing my videos which will be posted when Noxx, the forum admin, returns from the woods.











I know it's not much now but let's see what each of you have to say about it. I'll post more as you comment.

Steve


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## sandhog

Are your clamps stainless? I'm having trouble finding stainless clamps. If you know a good source please tell. I was thinking maybe a medical supply house.


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## lazersteve

Yes,

Google BU60X from RS Electronics. 

Jennifer Albany email:[email protected]

Tell her lazersteve sent you.

Steve


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## NaNO3

....


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## lazersteve

Nitrate,

I use the Glycerin formula.

The cathode is lead.

Here's my main one:






I'm putting together a series of short videos on the entire process to help the forum members. 

I'm working on the videos everyday. 

Steve


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## NaNO3

Steve
If you need some web hosting or space to put your files,videos
let me know.I have a server with some room to spare.
thankyou


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## lazersteve

Thanks for the offer, web space isn't the hold up. I'm waiting on Noxx to return as he has already reserved some space on the forum site for this type of content.


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## dwt9999

Steve, 

From the info I have read, It looks like a good amount of materials. The one thing I might add are a couple of buckets, one with some baking soda and hot/warm water(for nutralizing spills and hands when taking a break) and one with hot/warm water and soap for washing hands and cleaning up after spills).

Where can I find a 10amp battery charger??

thanks 
Lew


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## lazersteve

You're right Lew,

I left my pitchers out of the photo because they had product in them.
I use two 1 gallon pitchers for my diluting and filtering vessels. You'll see these in the upcoming video. I have quit using soda in my distilled H20 rinse because I combine these rinses, for minimum losses, with my batch before I dilute and filter. I usually run my cell for a full month (on and off of course) before filtering the gold out. I filter my rinse cup (also not in the original picture, but included below) every few days, refilling it with fresh distilled H2O to keep it from getting too acidic. 






I bought the charger pictured at the local Discount Auto Parts Store for $42. Be sure you get the manually operated type as the electronically controlled ones don't work well for this application. Also you will need to make sure it has a 6V selection and analog ammeter.

Thanks for the post.

It would be great if you could post some images of your work.

Steve


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## NaNO3

Will this cell work on karat gold jewelry?


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## Noxx

No, only plated material...


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## lazersteve

Nitrate,

Not at this time, but I'm looking into the problems associated with this. I hope to have something to test soon. I have some ideas but no experiments yet.

I'l keep you posted.

Steve


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## PRECIOUS METALS

hey steve i wanna give that we have you on the forum

im starting my cell i just bought a battery charger that has to settings 

1st one is 6 volts with 6 amps /and the other 12 volts six amps 

would this be good or do i need a 10 amp 

would setting it on 12volts 6 amps be better


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## lazersteve

PM,

The 6A will do for starters. The amount of current draw will depend on the number and size of anode (positive) items you put in the cell at one time. I started with a 6 A and burnt it out after I abused it with heavy loading. The 10 A has handled everything I've thrown at it to date. The 10 A will not suffice for extra large batches of pins (>1/2 lb). The largest single anode load I've done to date was 1/4 pound at one time and it pegged my 6A model. That's how I burnt out my 6A unit. Suffice it to say, if you stick with what you've learned so far from the forum the 6A will do nicely. I've heard tales of using a 50A (



) charger and larger!!!

Keep the volts at 6V.

Steve


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## sandhog

Steve,

I have a 50A but use it at the 10A setting. I tried it at the 50A setting but didn't really notice much difference in process time. Maybe if it was something larger than pins it would make a difference.


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## lazersteve

All,

The amperage drawn is proportional to the amount of gold placed in the cell. The more gold the more current draw from the charger. If you only put one small item in the cell at a time the current won't go over one amp. If you try to process one pound of pins in one batch the current draw shoots up until the gold is reverse plated then the current drops back down when the gold has been removed. I'm posting a slideshow demonstrating this tonight, I've got to be able to get away from the forum posting long enough to work on the two videos and this slideshow. I'm hoping to have them all up before midnight eastern time. I'll get on the slideshow first, and post it shortly.

Steve


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## MacDaddy

RS Electronics has a $50 minimum order. Same clips at same price can be found at:
*http://www.ace4parts.com*
Can order with paypal or other.


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## Lucia

Is it possible to use an arc welder instead using a battery charger?


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## lazersteve

The voltage must be between 5-6 volts, excessive amperage (>10 Amps) could possibly destroy the anodes if too great. I would stick with the charger unless upscaling the device by many factors.

Steve


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## Paige

I have a variable amp charger and sometimes it works better on lower amps.


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## scavenger

I have been using saltwater and a stainless cathode enclosed in a conductive crucible I got from a local factory. It will dissolve everything I put in it in about 3-4 hours with no toxic fumes. I think this crucible could save a lot of time and sulphuric acid if just doing small amounts of gold plated in your method. If the gold ANODE is enclosed in the crucible the dissolved gold collects in the crucible and u would have less acid to process. I've tried this using saltwater and it works fine.


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## goldsilverpro

scavenger,

How strong is the saltwater that you are using? Does it dissolve every thing - gold, copper, etc.? You get no chlorine fumes coming off the anode?

Your rig is very similar to the Shor patent, #4612093. He puts the anode in a .5 micron ceramic porous cup. A big difference is that he is dissolving solid karat gold. He needs much stronger solutions to do this - either full strength HCl or a saturated table salt solution (about 370 grams of salt per liter = 3 pounds per gallon). He starts either solution off with a catalyst of hydrogen peroxide - the equivalent of about 10 drops to 50 drops of 3% H2O2 per gallon of solution. He then drops the gold with sodium bisulfite. I would think that using the stronger solutions, especially the conc. HCl, would produce lots of chlorine gas.

Porous cups were discussed here - on both pages:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=485

What you are doing is very interesting. Please give us more details.


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## scavenger

It basically dissolves everything to slime . I just use rock salt. I keep the ph around 6 in the anode bowl and about double that in the cathode bowl. I was going to filter the lot and do a do a HCL wash when it is full then put it to HCL/Cl. I cant smell anything when it is operating. There is obvious hydrogen bubbling of the cathode but zero noticeable fumes. I am interested in finding a better electrolyte to speed things up. Thanks for the info on the peroxide. I'll give it a try.


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## goldsilverpro

Are you saying that the cathode solution pH is 12 (twice 6) or that you use twice as much salt in the cathode chamber? For salt, the pH is no indication of the concentration. How many grams of salt, per liter or gallon, do you use or, do you just dump some in? 

Are you dissolving pins or what? What final color is the anode solution? I think you're on the right track but, I don't like the slime thing.


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## scavenger

I mixed roughly 1 tablespoon salt with 1 liter hot water. I added my gold plated cpu covers anode to the bowl and my stainless rod to the cathode bowl and added more salt while watching the amps. When when they would go no further I stopped adding salt and did a ph test. I dont know much about ph but the amps increased a lot more when I added salt to the cathode bowl.


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## lazersteve

Scavenger,

Very interesting stuff you are doing. Salt is one of the items I've been mentally experimenting with also. I'm beginning to look at salt and hydrogen peroxide cleaved by photochemical means to produce hydroxyl ions which in turn will hopefully yield chlorine in situ. Nothing concrete yet, just all in my head and gathering documents for now. I would love to see some photos of your cell design.

Steve


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## scavenger

In my first post I mentioned I had tried saltwater in the anode crucible to dissolve the gold plated part. It dissolved the lot to a brown/green gunk not just the gold. If using sulphuric I assume it would just leave the gold mud.


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## lazersteve

Odds are the green gunk is a copper compound. When sulfuric is used in the arrangement shown in my videos the only precipitate is a black powder which is the gold. Be sure you get concentrated (90% >) sulfuric acid. Rooto brand drain opener is what I used in the video.

Steve


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## scavenger

Here is a pic of my saltwater set up. The cup in the middle is made from fusilica and is used for melting gold via electricity. Molten gold wont stick to it.
I have dissolved gold plated cpu plates in the cup just using saltwater and end up with a mess of green/brown gunk. I added HCL to the gunk and it cleared to reveal some black gunk on the bottom which I presume is the gold as the gold had nowhere else to go. It takes a few hours but I'm sure the process can be sped up by adding a drop or two of peroxide or clorox.


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## scavenger

Tried hot saltwater with a few drops of peroxide on a 9 carat ring. After 1 hour I got whats in the picture. I filtered out the debris and added SMB. Brown gold dropped. The copper remained in solution untill I dropped it with aluminium.


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## lazersteve

Scavenger,

Looks promising. How much of the gold ring remained after the first hour? Did you weigh your salt before adding it to the electrolyte? You should put together a tutorial summarizing your findings.

Great job!

Steve


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## aflacglobal

I though everyone might find this helpful.

The Galvanic Table lists metals in the order of their relative activity in sea water environment.

http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/corrosion/galvanic.htm

Ralph

I remembered this from my commercial coatings days.


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## scavenger

About 2/3 of the ring was eaten as I was using non stainless clip and could not immerse the entire thing. It was roughly 2 tablespoons rock salt to 1 litre hot water. Seems to work faster hot. Doesn't work as well on pins. I melted what I got from the the ring and it looks great. About 1 gram. I'll try a tutorial after a few more experiments. Thanks for the tips guys.


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## lazersteve

Scavenger, 

Have you tried increasing the amount of salt? This may make the reaction go quicker due to the increased available chlorine. Of course, you'll draw more current from your supply with more salt.

When you get the process all fleshed out I would like to add it to the reactions list. Would you mind if I do this?


Steve


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## scavenger

Thats fine Steve. I just did 8 grams of gold silver mix rolled into a leaf shape. I left it overnight and precipitated this morning. I'll weigh it after its finished dropping.


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## scavenger

I mixed up a fresh batch of hot saltwater. More salt this time. 1/4 cup to 1 litre. Now using a stainless bowl (which I hope my wife doesn't notice missing) as negative. I added the same gold/silver and am getting a much faster reaction. More salt is good.


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## lazersteve

Scavenger, 

This is turning out to be a very useful process. The last thing that I would consider changing is your anode configuration. The clip lead is bound to decay and contaminate the gold bearing solution. Have you tried any high density graphite? You need to keep the current density on the anode below 30 mA / cm2 with graphite to avoid decay in salt water electrolytes. The gold item can most likely be placed in the anode compartment and the chlorine produced will attack it as it's produced. If a connection is required you can simply place the anode on top of the gold material in the bottom of the anode compartment.

I have plenty of high density graphite if you need some to experiment with, PM me your address and I'll donate some to your project. 

When you finish tweaking your cell, I'm going to build one like yours. I've done a few tests of my own already with other salt electrolyte combinations using Pt as the anode and graphite as the cathode in an undivided cell. I'll share the details when you complete your tests.

Steve


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## aflacglobal

Interesting indeed. :wink:


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## Paige

Is this similar to the shor system?

If so, they recommend the gold be held by titanium wire.

If not, I go crawl back into my hole.

Paige


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## paveprince

Does the salt water electrolisis method require inquartation. Im still a little confused about inquartation. Is inquartation needed for electrolisis? yesterday i mixed 1 table salt shaker full of table salt with 1 1/2 cups of tap water in a pyrex beaker. i have a plating machine so i used a carbon rod as my cathode. the rod was placed in the salt water solution. i placed a 14ky gold ring on a rhodium plated copper hook into the same solution connected to my other lead . i turned on the machine to i think 9 volts. immediately vigorous bubbles began to form mostly around the carbon rod. i noticed that the ring was releasing a green substance into the solution. i think it cas copper. i dont know. in a period of about 10 to 15 minites i noticed the ring was half desolved. the solution was now bluish green and cloudy . also was a black gunk that mostly stuck to the carbon rod. finally the hook and ring desolved to the point they both fell into the solution so i turned off the machine and retrieved a small piece of what was once a ring. i let the gunk and cloudy stuff settle to the bottom over night . in the morning i filtered the solution into another beaker via a funnel with a paper filter in it . now in the new beaker was a clear light green liguid. i didnt know what to do at this point so i added about a 1/4 cup of sodium bisulfate thinking i would drop gold or any thing for all i cared , but the solution turned to a beautiful gold color. with nothing dropping anywhere. i later found out i needed sulfite not sulfate . im new so have a good laugh at my expence . what did i do ? what do i do next ? I still have everything the gold colored liguid the green gunk in the filter, everything. what does one suggest i do next?


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## NobleMetalsRecovery

Anyone know where to get them? Thanks


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## lazersteve

PavePrince,

You should test your yellow liquid with stannous chloride to be sure you are on the right track. If so I would use aluminum to cement everything out of the pregnant solution and process the powder that precipitates out. 

Start by rinsing the precipitated sludge several times with boiling water. Next treat the sludge with hot 50/50 nitric acid. Be sure to test the resulting solutions with stannous so you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Rinse three more times with boiling water, and then dissolve the remaining sludge with AR or HCl-Cl. When the remaining sludge is all in solution test with stannous and precipitate as required.

Steve (Noble Metals),

I can get the requested item if you PM me.

Steve


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## paveprince

where can i buy some nitric acid


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## NobleMetalsRecovery

Does anyone know where to get a "Fusilica cup" ?


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## lazersteve

Steve,

It's just a standard fused silica crucible. I can get them if you want one.

PM me for more info.

Steve


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## banjags

what would happen if a person just used salt water and peroxide without the inside cup? What purpose does the cup serve other than a smaller bowl... thus less wasted chemicals.


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## aflacglobal

The bowl has a 5 micron pore size. It only allows certain size ions to pass thru it. Thus blocking and seperating out the unwanted metals.


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## paveprince

banjags, i did that once in a pyrex beaker. greenish mud clouds form and swirl around. i used a carbon rod cathode. black residue would cling to it. this according to the hoke book is i think gold. when you disconnect the current though its still on the rod but comes off easily with a spray bottle of water.what i want to know though. what is in the green clouds? gold ? silver? copper? im desolving gold rings with stones in them . the stones fall out after some time. its preatty cool. im still confussed on how to re trieve the gold though. one time i filtered the mud from the solution. it was dark grey. i dryed it out added borax , nuked it with my torch. and got a rich gold colored bead. what i want to know is . was there silver in my bead or did the alloys in the ring filter out into the liquid. or was it in the mud ? heeeelllllllllpppppp mmmeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!! some body. the rings were all 14 karat yellow gold . about 25 grams worth. didnt get much gold though. about 1.8 gr or so. so i think i had substantial loss. i thirst for more input and guidance.


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## paveprince

oh ya i tried the salt cell with gold rings using a flower pot i got from hobby lobby (no hole in the bottom). this worked well because the carbon rod did not get bound up with deposits from the rings. i also tried to bag the rings to catch the pieces of gold that did not desolve or to catch the gold mud but this was a messy pain in the a$$. the nylon tears. and leaks into the solution defeating its purpose. the nylon seems to soak up some of the metals so im going to nuke the nylon to see if gold , or some kind of metals appears. also the solution during this process gets up to about 125 to 130 degres ferinhite (sorry for the bad spelling). there is lots to discuss. hope we can figure it out.


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## ALPHABiT

Let me check if i understood all or i got (probably) something wrong...

[img:640:480]http://www.monetaio.it/portal/Collezione_Privata/capito.jpg[/img]


Where:

1 - Is simply a stainless bowl with no soulders.
2 - Is a Ceramic Crucible. Can i use a Graphite one too ?
3 - Is water + 10 mL of hydrogen peroxide 3% per liter + salt (how much?)
4 - Is a stainless clamp where i put my solid gold to liquify
5 - Is water + salt without iodine (36 grams per 100)


Can you check if all this is correct, and eventually correct me where i'm wrong ?

Thanx.


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## lazersteve

Everything looks good to me.

You can experiment with the amount of peroxide needed.

All salt solutions are saturated = 36 gm/100 mL


I would *not* allow the SS anode clip to enter the anode cavity. Lower the gold only on to the liquid. Make a gold hanger for this or make your gold into an anode with a hook shape.

Do not use graphite for the membrane.

The dissolved gold may go into solution or may leave gold sludge. Experiment and test with stannous to determine how the gold reacts.

I probably should build one to test everything out.


Steve


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## ALPHABiT

> I would not allow the SS anode clip to enter the anode cavity. Lower the gold only on to the liquid. Make a gold hanger for this or make your gold into an anode with a hook shape.



Maybe can i solder a silver wire on gold ?



> Do not use graphite for the membrane.
> The dissolved gold may go into solution or may leave gold sludge.



That's ok.



> Experiment and test with stannous to determine how the gold reacts.



Awaiting your PM! 
Ty.


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## lazersteve

I would use a gold hook to hang the karat gold into the cell. Melt your karat gold into the shape of an anode and include the hook in the shape. When the anode decays the hook will remain undissolved. Add this to the next melt for the new anode. You can connect your positive lead to the hook. 

Send me your mailing address via PM and I'll get you a quote for the tin metal.

Steve


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## Palladium

aflacglobal said:


> The bowl has a 5 micron pore size. It only allows certain size ions to pass thru it. Thus blocking and seperating out the unwanted metals.



Here is a great site for filter bags that can be used for cells and bagging plates. ( cheap too ) :arrow: http://www.filterbags.com/filter_bag_pricing.htm


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## Froggy

The filters are cheap but the housings!!!! :shock: They claim the housings are for acid but stainless?


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## Palladium




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## ALPHABiT

> I probably should build one to test everything out.



I made lot of tests, and i can say something about this now.
It works to dissolve solid karat gold: but u'll got silver chloride in solution (if u use tap water cleaned up with Cl), not only putting inox in it...

But it can be usefull to store AG in chloride form, and not dissolved in liquid (very less volume).


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## ALPHABiT

> I would think that the voltage would be less, for a given amperage, the closer the electrodes are. The solution has a certain resistance, per unit distance. The closer the electrodes, the shorter the electron path.



I used 24V 10A . 10cL (not mL) of H2O2 per liter of H2O+salt.

50 grams in a bit more of 1 hour dissolved.

Suggests to work safer ?


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## Anonymous

This question may sound ignorant ,but here goes ,I am new to this field and overly excited about trying to do this . I have gathered up some materials and have a basic IQ ability .A little concerned about safty and health risks in working with all this .NEED GOOD INSTRUCTION from real people that are succeeding at this . Can any one dirrect me or give advice on where to start. ??? I have gathered CPU's finger boards , and some gold plated jewelry ,and silver plated materials .My experience is in melting and molding silver into ingots . I have the desire , have been ripped off from ebay information and trying to find real help!.Dont mind paying to learn ,but want to learn the best info that is safe to use :roll:


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## Noxx

Don't pay anything to learn. Everything you want to know is here and free.

I would suggest you to take your time and read a lot of the posts already on the forum. Then, if you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer.


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## docone31

Noxx,
I am new to this, and I have read, and read untill my head spins. There is so much information for the layman. It is incredible! I am really excited at this prospect. I have plated gold, karat gold, do not trust refiners, and basically want the satisfaction of doing it.
I have met some really decent people already.
Is there an actual simple way of using acids, breaking down the karat gold and refineing it?
I got an Ishor unit, and I am so sorry I did. It arrived with a broken cell, missing parts, and I have been led around and around. I tried to download the Hoke book, but the link is broken.
I am on a lot of forums. I have never spent so much time just absorbing all the information presented here. It is incredible! Photos, formulas, processes. Absolutely amazing.
Does anyone here have a thread on how to do it? I actually have two PhDs. I am so glad none of them recquired chemistry. My head spins.
It is like being in a toy store for the first time. Where do I start? I want to jump right in, however I also want to know what I am doing. You know, the "where fools rush in" thing.
What a great forum! You guys ROCK!


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## lazersteve

Begin with the basics and very simple acquaintance tests with every process you plan to use.

Start with reading the Guided Tour link in my signature line. Be sure you follow the four main links therein.

The General Reactions list will get you up to speed.

Next be sure to make some stannous chloride, as Harold stated once, it is your eyes into the solutions.

Let us know if you get lost or side tracked.

Ask questions first, before you mess up and have to back track.

Most of all, enjoy yourself, be very safe, and be responsible,

Steve


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## docone31

Steve, I am watching the melting video on your site as we write.
I appreciate all the help. This is like sustenance to my brain.
I always measure twice, cut once. I will probably drive a lot of nuts with my seemingly redundant questions.
Today, as I explored this site and met some of us folks, I did a wax, invested four rings, burned out, cast some silver. Meantine I read, and read. The burn out smell is still in the house. I do love it.
Thanks Steve.
I appreciate it.


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## ghut

dicone,

Sounds like you are burning out without proper ventilation. A few years ago, a good friend became very ill after burning out for a couple days without ventilation as the fan motor went out. It, also, cost him hundreds of dollars to have his duck work cleaned and sanitized afterwards. Every professional jeweler and dental lab owner that I know properly vents thier burn out ovens. If you use the chemicals and processes you will learn on this forum with the same attitude you apparently apply to your burn out you're going to jepordize you health in a very, very bad way.

By the way, I use the Shor system for a portion of my refining needs with the expected results. But, I didn't wait 18 months to open the package and inspect the contents, nor would I do that with anything I order. I don't know of any supplier that would honor a damage claim and year and a half after the item was received.


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## docone31

I am glad you got use from your unit. I really am.
I had a Foredom unit, that I recieved, that after two moves, and several years, I took out of the box and used it.
I had no idea, that a ceramic cell, unused in the box, without apparent damage, would self destruct. I understand about consumeables. I had no idea the ceramic cell was a consumeable.
I also appeciate the concern about the burn out kiln. Fortunately, the room I built for the Fizzer Cell, also contains my kiln, and high temperature gear. There is no duct work, outside from an high volume evacuation fan. I do not use a Moon Suit to check the pyrometer, so there is some odor when I enter the room.
What we do, has some techniques that recquire using proper techniques. Ventilation, cleanliness, tool care, and disposal protocol. I use a vaccum caster rather than a spin caster. I have had blow outs with rotating mass.
After 25yrs of doing what I do, I also, have seen some things. It is with that in mind, rather than jumping into something head first, I research, sometimes for years.
There is a right way, wrong way, and a stupid way. I have done my share of stupid things in my days. I have the scars to prove it. The few apprentices I have had, I prefer to itemize what can happen if.... They laugh, but I like to think some remember. Simple things can have serious consequences.
Ever seen what happens when recasting pewter and a slightly moist piece gets thrown into the melt? I saw that at a casting shop I worked at when I was a teenager. There are not a lot of words to describe it. Pewter rain.
The person was an experienced caster. He knew better, just wanted to hurry up the casting. My back was to him, and we spent the next week getting pewter off everything!
I deeply appreciate your concerns. I share them. I would want to reach out and and help someone accomplish their goal and live to repeat it also.
Thanks.
After 25yrs, I can still utilize all the advice I can recieve. When someone miligrains a bezel, or cuts a vertex, after a while we learn a better way. It is important to never forget what we first learned, and why. With all the things I do for the shop and the time constraints, I do need to be called back to the basics, even if they are employed.
I appreciate it.


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## webster2872

Hi all
This thread has been quite for a while and I would like to know if any of you people have experemented futher with this. I realize that it is a tremendous amount of work, but has anyone thought about doing a tutorial on the process. It would be a big help to me, even if the tutorial was in slide show format. Also would like answer to a question. Would this process work done on a hot plate outside, Thanks Robert


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## butcher

Very popular process, see www.goldrecovery.us, also read this forum, many easy processes and help here, checkout Lasersteves posts, welcome to forum


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## usaman65

Bump!!!!! Interested in salt karat gold process!

kev


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## bmgold

I'm interested in the salt water karat gold cell. Here is my understanding of this process. Keep in mind that these are my thoughts and I am likely to be wrong so someone correct me where I am wrong. 

From what I can tell, you have an outer container where the cathode (negative) connection is made which is probably a carbon or graphite rod.

??? Maybe stainless steel or other metal???

And, you have an inner container made from a fused silica crucible or a clay flower pot with the hole plugged. 

???is this the same as a clay crucible???

In this inner container you would have your karat gold connected as the anode (positive). 

a salt water solution would be put into both the inner and outer containers. A little hydrogen peroxide might also be added but I'm not sure which part or maybe both parts. 

I'm certain the anode will be destroyed but what goes where?

Gold chloride is soluble so it should, I think, go into solution. Does it stay in the inner chamber dissolved or is it electrically precipitated at the cathode side into the outer container?

Silver chloride is insoluble so it should stay in the inner container as a precipitate. 

Copper chloride is soluble so it should end up wherever the gold does. 

From that point I expect the solutions and/or precipitates would be cleaned and refined as needed. (filtered, washed, dissolved, precipitated, etc.)

Anyone care to comment on and correct my thoughts? It sounds like a cheap method if it works.


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## lazersteve

BMgold,

The method works albeit very slowly. As you know from the other processes I use, slow is not always a problem for me. The real problem for me with this one is the attention it requires.

I tried it on a 2+ ounce anode of karat gold I poured from melted jewelry, suspended with a platinum wire in the anode compartment. After 2 hours the cell quit working and had to be cleaned and set up a second time. After a total of two clean out cycles (6 hours) I gave up on the process. The bar only lost a small portion of mass in the process (about 15 grams out of 77).

The gold was partially dissolved in the anode compartment and partially precipitated in the anode compartment.

The silver chloride stayed in the anode area also.

It seemed to me like the crucible became passivated after the third reload cycle. I think something was going on where the membrane no longer passed ions as the current would not flow even in a freshly set up rig.

I never pursued it beyond this.

The cathode is just a SS dish and you clip the negative power lead directly to it.

I'm certain with some experimenting this could be a viable method.

Here's how my anode looked after 6 hours:







Steve


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## bmgold

Thanks for the reply. I have very small amounts of gold so I may or may not give it a try but I'll take your word for it that it does work a little and for a little but probably not worth doing. 

Dealing with small quantities of gold, etc makes it hard to justify the cost of nitric or other stuff and I hoped this might be the answer. 

That's not to say I haven't or won't spend more time and money on this quest for gold than it is worth, but I have a limited amount of time and money to spare.


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## Kbow

Steve came and visited me and my dad and let me tell you we had a great time. Steve brought us a cell ready to go and taught us how to use it. It works great. We have a good many pins to do in a copper mesh strainer.

I also did two small buttons from from computer boards yesterday. (my first.)  5.4 grams small but a good start.

Steve,

I can not thank you enough for taking time to come up and share your world of knowledge with us.

Kbow


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## lazersteve

Keith,

I'm glad you and your dad enjoyed my visit. It was fun to go to the mountains for a short while. I really love helping others learn refining and recovery of precious metals.

Please PM me as I'm looking for a few scrap items.

Steve

P.S. The Platinum and Palladium DVD is ready if you or your dad want a copy.


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## Kbow

I will let dad know aobut the videos!

I sent you a pm.


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## Kbow

Steve,

Did we use glycerin when you came? I know we used the drain cleaner but do not recall any glycerin. Does it go by another name by chance?

Thanks,

Keith


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## lazersteve

Keith,

Skip the glycerin, it has been determined that it's use is undefined and it can be eliminated from the reaction.

Steve


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## Ignatz61

Ok,
I have set up a cell for doing 2 lbs of gold plated parts at a time. I am suspending a perforated 2" PVC pipe in a column of sulfuric acid, electrical hook up as usual. I can limit the amps to around 8-9. I get about 95% striped when I dump the container. I have to pick through the striped parts and pull out the ones that need a little more stripping and either through them back in the next batch or hand strip in a small cell.

After I stripped a bunch of copper parts and dumped the processed parts in a bucket I got a phone call and they sat in residue acid and some wash water. I noticed about 20% of this batch had gold still on them, after soaking for about an hour all were copper colored. What would have caused these to get coppper coated?
I now know they have to go into the water right away but can anyone explain the chemistry here?
Thanks JOhn


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## Palladium

lazersteve said:


> Keith,
> 
> I'm glad you and your dad enjoyed my visit. It was fun to go to the mountains for a short while. I really love helping others learn refining and recovery of precious metals.



Steve where in ala did you go? You said mountains and we only have them up north. You sound like santa now.  

Thanks for every thing you do Steve. :wink:


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## lazersteve

Ralph,

My wife and I made the 700 mile round trip to North of Decatur in one day with four or five hours spent at the members house giving him and his father some hands on training.

We really enjoyed the trip, but it was greuling to do all in a single day. I wish I had more time to stay and teach them more. As it was we didn't get home until 3:30 AM.

I hand delivered his DVDs and a complete cell set up to them. In return he gave me some cash, four catalytics (1 foreign, 1 GM loaf of bead, 2 OEMs), and a low power military range finding laser (NT172) complete with optics. The optics and laser were all mounted on a very nice sled. I'm still hunting wiring information for the laser if anyone has the specs on it.

All in all my wife and I had a really great trip and it was nice to get away.

Steve


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## Palladium

You the man Steve. 

I use to live just north of Decatur years ago. That's up around Athens and limestone alabama. Hope you enjoyed the ride.  It's some of the prettiest spots in the state up around the area. They call it the tennessee river valley even though it's in Alabama. And man does that river produce some good fishing. :wink:


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## 61 silverman

can this salt water process be done without a fume hood -- indoors no fumes produced ???


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## lazersteve

Anytime you mix electricity and saturated salt water you can expect chlorine gas. 

For this reason you need a well ventilated area.

Steve


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## Platdigger

Hey Mark, is this cell used for deplating or refining?
Randy


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## jamthe3

Steve,

Thanks so much for sending the parts so quickly. Its greatly appreciated. If its okay, I have one (at least for now--LOL) silly question. When making the copper mesh basket, am I correct in believing that it is in place of the SS anode and hung on the Pyrex itself as opposed to wrapped around the SS bar?

Cheers,
John


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## lazersteve

John,

The bar used when you are stripping medium sized items with the clip. The copper mesh is used without the bar.

Sorry I had to change dishes on you my supplier of the others discontinued the deep dish. You should mount the bar outside the shallow dish so you don't get it in the acid.

I'm working on locating another source for the deep dishes and will send you one if i can find them.

Steve


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## jamthe3

Thanks Steve, I was wondering just that very thing. If one pops up, cool, but don't lose any sleep over it either way. 

Cheers,
John


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## aflacglobal




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## Anonymous

All of you are incredible smart with all of this lingo. I hope to learn all I can!!!
lazersteve you have helped alot in just one day of research. Thanks!!


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## amon13

Hello i wonder can i use a anode and catode from a automobile battery
for the cell??? :?:


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## lazersteve

I found a source again for the deep dishes like the one in my videos, if anyone is interested.

Steve


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## Barren Realms 007

lazersteve said:


> I found a source again for the deep dishes like the one in my videos, if anyone is interested.
> 
> Steve



Excellent.


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## Geo

i want to bump this thread. has anyone else tried the saturated salt cell with any success?


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## NobleMetalsRecovery

Does anyone know where to get the Fusilica cups? Thanks, Steve


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## lazersteve

What size cups? I sell a variety of sizes of fused silica dishes on my website, the smallest of which is around 2.5" in diameter.

Steve


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