# 10 liter jacketed reactor



## rusty (Apr 9, 2013)

Just purchased this very cool 10 liter reactor, hopefully it arrives in one piece.

Five minutes after pushing the purchase button the credit card company phoned me to confirm.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Boro...cal-Glass-Reaction-Reactor-10L/551590605.html


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## GOLDbuyerCA (Apr 9, 2013)

*My dream is to purchase one of these * you probably specified the parts which will give the complete process of PMG's. i have looked at several units, 
if you have time, could you elaborate on how you came to your decision to get this one? Vancouver Canada, i need a buddy or two, to get one of these and a garage to operate it in. 

please tell us of your experience with this, Cheers. fine looking unit.


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## rusty (Apr 10, 2013)

Purchased a 5 liter jacketed flask from ebay - arrived in pieces.

While this 5 liter flask was in transit purchased a condenser and a few other goods - useless without the reactor.

Got to looking at that 10 liter reactor on ebay which sells for $1680.00 plus $750.00 shipping for a total of $2380.00 before Customs Duty.

Found that same ebay reactor on Alibaba for $1800.00 free shipping, made an inquiry, no reply and the guy removed the free ship.

Got poking around some more on Alibaba and found this reactor, larger stirring motor, plus additional glass for $1800.00 with free shipping. We'll deal with the Duty when it arrives in a couple of weeks.

My concentrates from the centrifuge are basically slimes, perfect material for the reactor, vacuum assisted evaporation, free heat from my waste oil hot water boiler.

One of the first jobs for this reactor is to vacuum assist evaporate the excess chlorine off my acid bleach leach.

Then I have 3/4 of a 45 gallon drum of milled cat comb waiting to be processed, the milled material will never see the inside of this reactor only the leaches needing to be evaporated down ( concentrated ) before precipitating.

I have plans to build a reactor from fiber glass for the rough leaching of the cat material. Have everything needed to built just need to make some time.

Then I want to make some bio diesel and be able to reclaim the alcohol, I have a full 45 gallon drum of methanol for this purpose but in no rush to purchase another it's expensive so recycling makes sense. 

I also had it in mind to distill some essential oils but not after its been used for refining metals, so any distilling of essential oils will have to be first up.

There you have it, impulse purchase.


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## rusty (Apr 10, 2013)

This reactor below is the standard one, but you can request a different lid style.


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## rusty (Apr 10, 2013)

My reactor is being shipped with the lid style shown on the 100 liter reactor.


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## rusty (Apr 11, 2013)

My reactor is a custom job and is currently working its way through the factory. The glass blowers after forming the flask and various bits will put everything into an oven for annealing and tempering, relieving the stress.

After the oven the joints will be ground, making sure everything fits nice and snug.

Hopefully I'll have some pictures to post of my reactor as it passes through the factory.


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## rusty (Apr 16, 2013)

My reactor ships tomorrow, two crates - can't wait.

No excuses now not to clean out my rats nest I call a shop, to make room for it, and put her to work.

Hope this expensive bit of glass is packaged well and makes the trip in one piece.


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## Golddigger Greg (Apr 16, 2013)

This one looks similar, hopefully it's documented better than this one was.
https://www.gcsurplus.ca/mn-eng.cfm?snc=wfsav&sc=enc-bid&scn=120839&lcn=265668&lct=L&srchtype=&lci=&str=1&ltnf=1&frmsr=1&sf=ferm-clos


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## rusty (Apr 16, 2013)

Golddigger Greg said:


> This one looks similar, hopefully it's documented better than this one was.
> https://www.gcsurplus.ca/mn-eng.cfm?snc=wfsav&sc=enc-bid&scn=120839&lcn=265668&lct=L&srchtype=&lci=&str=1&ltnf=1&frmsr=1&sf=ferm-clos



Government employees what can you expect, I'll bet they don't even know there's supposed to be two packages. There is a contact number though so someone on the GMT area could get themselves deal, looks to be the same size I purchased 10 liter - $1800.00


Wonder if they they seized a Semi load of these reactors, maybe some larger ones coming up at Crown Assets Disposal, have to keep an eye open.

That Government seized reactor probably belongs to one of our forum members.


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## Golddigger Greg (Apr 17, 2013)

As soon as I saw it, I thought about you, hoping it wasn't yours. Yeah, it'd be a good deal for someone that knew it wasn't some kind of strange 'pump'; probably get it for a really reasonable price.


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## rusty (Apr 17, 2013)

Golddigger Greg said:


> As soon as I saw it, I thought about you, hoping it wasn't yours. Yeah, it'd be a good deal for someone that knew it wasn't some kind of strange 'pump'; probably get it for a really reasonable price.




We'll see, I placed a bid on it :shock:


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## rusty (Apr 23, 2013)

Golddigger Greg said:


> This one looks similar, hopefully it's documented better than this one was.
> https://www.gcsurplus.ca/mn-eng.cfm?snc=wfsav&sc=enc-bid&scn=120839&lcn=265668&lct=L&srchtype=&lci=&str=1&ltnf=1&frmsr=1&sf=ferm-clos



Thank you for the heads up on this auction Golddigger Greg, this reactor appears to be the 5 liter version which sells for $1200.00 before tax, freight and customs duty. 

This auction has saved me some serious coinage.


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## Golddigger Greg (Apr 23, 2013)

Congratulations Rusty! :mrgreen: Glad to help out.


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## rusty (Apr 27, 2013)

Ebay sellers who sell fragile goods could learn a thing or two from this Chinese fellow from whom I purchased my reactor from. 

I'm very pleased with this transaction, and will use AliExpress in the future for all my purchases. May as well since it's all made in China anyhow.


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## rusty (Apr 28, 2013)

Ten liter reactor is now assembled, it's being reserved for the distillation of essential oils.

The voltage required to operate could be a disadvantage to some, 220 volts.

Reactor came equipped with temperature probe, the condenser is 24 inches with high efficiency double wrapped coil. Condenser shipped full of Styrofoam beads to prevent breakage, some beads are stuck inside - a quick rinse with acetone will solve this problem.


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## Palladium (Apr 28, 2013)

I like the new avatar Rusty.


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## rusty (May 8, 2013)

The reactor from Crown Assets arrived this afternoon, it's a 5000 ml reactor.

Long time to arrive but well worth the wait, good price.


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## Golddigger Greg (May 8, 2013)

Good to hear that it made it there. How complete is this unit?


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## rusty (May 8, 2013)

Golddigger Greg said:


> Good to hear that it made it there. How complete is this unit?



The condenser is a wee bit small but I have that larger one I purchased for that glassware from ebay that arrived broken, nice addition funnel few stopcocks and vacuum port.

Thermometer tube could have had a larger inside diameter. the 10 liter reactor came with a digital thermometer this 5 liter - none.

The stirring motor is a decent size, 220 volts.

The glass on the 5 liter reactor is very green while the 10 liter has nice clear borosilicate glass.

Had a tough time removing the lid, it was glued solidly to the bottom flask. Not joint grease but real glue. I used Poly Stripper from both the inside and outside to get it loose.

Would I pay the asking price for one of these 5 liter reactors on ebay, probably. That green glass is a real turn off and a great disappointment when I know borosilicate glass is nice and clear free of iron.

The 5 liter is worth about what I paid for it, now that 10 liter reactor is well worth the money. But I understand not everyone needs to go that large, I have a barrel of milled cats to refine, had I the $$$ would have purchased the 20 liter reactor.

I received a PM asking what the reactor was used for.

Here is my reply.

1. The reactor is jacketed, this jacket maybe heated or cooled with a liquid of your choice from an external source.
2. Using hot water to heat the reactor reduces possible breakage as using a hot plate to heat a beaker or coffee carafe requires special care and attention.
3. Reactor comes equipped with an electric stirring motor and paddle which frees up my time.
4. Easy to vent a totally enclosed vessel
5. Using a condenser to reclaim the acid fumes returning them back to the reactor for further use saves money on acids.
6. No loss of precious metals due to spatter or accidental boiling over, your working with an enclosed vessel.
7. I can now do vacuum assisted evaporations, liquids under vacuum require less heat to evaporate or boil shortening the time to bring down to a syrup. This all results in time saving as well savings in energy costs.
8. By speeding up the stir motor I can splash liquids high up onto the heated walls of the reactors, kind like a rotovap to assist in evaporating liquids to a syrup.
9. Using the addition funnel I can add regents one drop at a time or more.

I'm sure there are more advantages I may have missed, bear in mind I've never used a reactor before so it's all a new game to me.


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## Golddigger Greg (May 8, 2013)

Thanks Rusty! Keep me in mind for adopting the little guy if/when you want to bite on the 20L! :wink:


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## rusty (May 8, 2013)

Golddigger Greg said:


> Thanks Rusty! Keep me in mind for adopting the little guy if/when you want to bite on the 20L! :wink:



There wont be any 20 liter reactor anytime soon, both my Pajero and Dodge diesel are down.

I rebuilt the injectors for the Pajero, installed them yesterday only to find my injector pump is either screwed or not getting fuel. I'm hoping its only the fuel shut off needle valve stuck as I can hear the solenoid working. If it need the injector pump rebuilt this is going to cost some serious coin.

The starter quit on the Dodge diesel, that starter would have cost me $450.00 Canadian, ordered a brand new one from fleebay $150.00 postage inclusive but have to wait for it to arrive.

When I have one of those clunkers running making a trip into Winnipeg for a couple of kegs of nitric, I have one keg to return but have to make the deposit on the second keg, a drum of hydrochloric, couple 30 liter pails of 98% sulfuric and some soda ash that should clean out the kitty.


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## Harold_V (May 9, 2013)

rusty said:


> The starter quit on the Dodge diesel, that starter would have cost me $450.00 Canadian, ordered a brand new one from fleebay $150.00 postage inclusive but have to wait for it to arrive.


Can't speak for yours, but the solenoid on the starter on my '94 Dodge Cummins is hard on contacts. One side tends to erode much more than the other. When I had it out (to replace a lift pump) I rebuilt the solenoid, making new contacts from some copper stock I had on hand. To compensate for the contact that tends to erode faster than the other, I increased surface area by making the contact substantially wider. I've seen such contacts offered for sale, so the idea was not mine. Thus far, it has worked flawlessly. You might consider taking a look at yours before discarding. It's an easy fix. 

Harold


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## rusty (May 9, 2013)

Harold_V said:


> rusty said:
> 
> 
> > The starter quit on the Dodge diesel, that starter would have cost me $450.00 Canadian, ordered a brand new one from fleebay $150.00 postage inclusive but have to wait for it to arrive.
> ...



Harold the contacts inside the solenoid are like new, this was the first thing I checked out. The big problem is one of the segments on the commutator is fried, I don't have a growler but I think truing up the armature commutator and undercutting would be a waste of time anyhow.

You might consider keeping your older Dodge Cummins the next generation engine uses common rail injection along with a few other modifications which make the new engine less desirable.

In 93 I purchased the a brand new Dodge extended cab 4x4, 5 speed standard, that truck could go through tires in no time.

First day I had the truck, went to a hitch shop and had one installed, loaded the truck with asphalt shingles then a stock trailer to that new hitch with my Thomas skid steer inside along with more goodies.

Got myself stopped in a roadside check which included DOT, the guy had me pull onto the portable scales, couple of things he told me. The Fords had trouble pulling up onto the scales and that he had more good news and bad for me.

Asked me which i would like to hear first, anyhow the good news was that the class of license I had covered the weight I was pulling but was overloaded for the type of truck and trailer used for the job, had to leave the trailer to carry on my journey. And some tickets to boot.

On the Ranch had a Case 580 4x4 extend a hoe which had a cut down version of the Cummins, 4 cylinder naturally aspirated engine very economical to run, my Massey had a Perkins which I also liked very much.


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## Harold_V (May 10, 2013)

Heh! We have two of those Dodge Cummins trucks. The '94, the one I discussed, gives us 22 mpg, and has been very reliable. 
The newer one, a '99, which has 24 valves, we bought new, a 1 ton cab & chassis, on which we have mounted a 10' box (cube van). 

We took delivery on the cab & chassis by driving about 200 miles (to Oregon). I drove it home, sans the box. It was then driven to Seattle, where the box was installed. Damned thing got just shy of 15 mpg driving it home, and it still does, with the box installed. While the truck has been very reliable (not a single issue), I sure don't much like the mileage it gets. 

Both of them are turbocharged, by the way. 

I agree--your starter sounds like it's toast. 

Harold


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## rusty (May 10, 2013)

Harold_V said:


> Heh! We have two of those Dodge Cummins trucks. The '94, the one I discussed, gives us 22 mpg, and has been very reliable.
> The newer one, a '99, which has 24 valves, we bought new, a 1 ton cab & chassis, on which we have mounted a 10' box (cube van).
> 
> We took delivery on the cab & chassis by driving about 200 miles (to Oregon). I drove it home, sans the box. It was then driven to Seattle, where the box was installed. Damned thing got just shy of 15 mpg driving it home, and it still does, with the box installed. While the truck has been very reliable (not a single issue), I sure don't much like the mileage it gets.
> ...



Harold all the Dodge Cummins came out turbo charged, then later on they were Inter-Cooled.

For those that do not know what inter cooling does, I'll give a brief explanation. Incoming air goes through a radiator ( Inter Cooler ) that handles nothing but the incoming air once the air is cooled it become more dense it contains more usable oxygen. 

This extra oxygen give a more compete combustion, supposedly better fuel mileage along with more pulling power and cleaner emissions.

Works on the same principal as water injection custom installed on gasoline engines, the molecular make up of water is of course as we all know H2O


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## rusty (May 10, 2013)

Assembled the 5000 ml reactor, checking for leaks and test run the stir motor.

Awesome little motor, at 20 rpm grabbing the stirring shaft as tight as I can by hand I can not stall the motor nor does it slow down.


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## rusty (May 18, 2013)

In total it cost me $500.00 to make this post.

The 5000 ml reactor purchased from Crown Assets is the same unit sold on ebay, with shipping would set you back in the neighborhood of $1800.00 not counting customs duty and possible tax on entry.

That said, the reactor is a piece of JUNK, it appears to made from Soda glass, borosilicate is not green. The stainless steel is of the poorest quality it rusts, the bottom drain valve it poorly designed - it leaks.

I tested the flask using water, then went to hot AR, had to put a beaker under the drain valve to catch the drips.

The top and bottom supports are misaligned, basically the only value in this unit is a stir motor with a controller.


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## rusty (Jun 7, 2013)

Sometimes I just hate living Rural, we only have a Co-op hardware and its a half hours drive from home, then for anything industrial electric it's an hours drive so your whole day is shot going for a $10.00 part.

These past two days I've been busy converting the reactor over to hot oil, that was a hoot. The electric shop sold me a 40 amp relay which was supposed to have a 110 volt coil find out later its 220 volts so I had to reconfigure my wiring to the thermostat.

Johns Electric gave me the thermostat which was old new stock, the new ones are all digital, needless to say I like shopping at Johns Electric.

The hot oil heating system is currently under going testing, this system will be far superior to using water which evaporates rapidly, I'm constantly having to baby sit the reactor keeping an eye on the water level, the hot oil system will relieve me from this task freeing up my time doing more useful things.

My reactor is going to smell like Kentucky Fried Chicken, used Canola cooking oil.

I can now set the temperature and paddle speed and leave it running unattended for extended periods of time.

The cold water recirculating system charged with antifreeze has yet to be tested. Should the freezer compartment not be able to keep up to the cooling demand I went back to the landfill site this afternoon to get the condenser from that commercial cooler. 

The evaporator has two separate circuits while the condenser has only one, plus a place to mount another fan.

The condenser is so much more easier to work with having only one circuit. Plus in the lower section of the fridge I can keep me Budweiser cold.

Hopefully everything is systems go as I have a load waiting for the reactor.


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## rusty (Jun 7, 2013)

One small coolant leak at the electric pump, fixed and ready to load tomorrow as the reactor is very hot at the moment and needs to cool down. The Canola oil had no trouble bringing the temperature up to 90 degrees Celsius. 

The thermostat cycles on every 15 minutes for 5 minutes, the vessel which holds the oil is wrapped in ceramic wool.

I should have used oil to heat the reactor in the first place, I think the oil heats up much quicker than water, it certainly has the capability to reach much higher temperatures. 

As the water gets ho, the steam coming off has a cooling effect on the liquid below keeping the water from boiling without using an excess of energy, at least that's my theory.

The condenser coils look really cool filled with antifreeze.


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## butcher (Jun 8, 2013)

I think your having way too much fun. :lol:


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## rusty (Jun 8, 2013)

butcher said:


> I think your having way too much fun. :lol:



Absolutely, I went to the Onanole landfill and hit the jack pot.

Two large diesel catalytic converters already cut and waiting for me in the metal pile, 1400 watt microwave tested on site with my 4500 watt inverter before loading. A compete surround sound system with remote and speakers AM and FM, tunes for the shop.

Half a truck load of e-waste, POS terminals and laser bar code scanners.

On top of all this excitement managed to load the reactor before leaving home.


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## rusty (Jun 8, 2013)

Should have made a well for the thermostat probe, as you can see the probe was not submerged in oil, thus the thermostat was running wild. Not sure how hot it got before the Pex plastic tubing melted, the pipe connected to the pump actually burst.

Good thing my Canola oil comes cheap as in free. have to wait for the reactor to cool down before I'm able to replace the melted pipes. In the meantime back to mowing the lawn.


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## butcher (Jun 9, 2013)

Maybe you can also add another High limit (safety) thermostat in series with the working thermostat, to limit the temperature to a maximum set point.


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## rusty (Jun 11, 2013)

butcher said:


> Maybe you can also add another High limit (safety) thermostat in series with the working thermostat, to limit the temperature to a maximum set point.



Something like a high limit therm-o-disc used on a cloths dryer and a million other applications would work, only problem is these reset themselves on cooling. A manual start relay will not work in this application as once the power has been interrupted even with the main thermostat it would not come back on.

The therm-o-disc come in thousands of temperature settings at an economical price.

I would have to find one that does not reset itself automatically but would require manual reset.

In the meantime I have remedied the problem using a $0.30 Tridon clamp to secure the probe coming from the thermostat assuring that it is in constant contact with the oil.


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## g_axelsson (Jun 11, 2013)

Don't know if it's possible, but the therm-o-disc could be placed in series with the holding current for the starter relay, once tripped it will drop the starter relay and everything has to be cooled down before it is possible to restart.
Add a neon bulb across it would also give a visual signal that it is too hot if you try to start the heater again.

Göran


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## rusty (Jun 11, 2013)

g_axelsson said:


> Don't know if it's possible, but the therm-o-disc could be placed in series with the holding current for the starter relay, once tripped it will drop the starter relay and everything has to be cooled down before it is possible to restart.
> Add a neon bulb across it would also give a visual signal that it is too hot if you try to start the heater again.
> 
> Göran



You mean something like this LED with induction coil, these came from a commercial hot water tank.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, the heater is working fine as is, the error was on my part being in too much of rush not checking everything was secure for systems go.


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## plante1999 (Jun 12, 2013)

Rusty, I got a few question as I may be interested in the 5L reactor. I'm in Canada too.

Would you get rid of your 5L reactor?
Do you think it is fixable?
Is there many missing pieces?

On a side note, I know there is usually customs fee from a costly item such as your 10L reactor, where they large, or present at all?

Thanks


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## rusty (Jun 12, 2013)

plante1999 said:


> Rusty, I got a few question as I may be interested in the 5L reactor. I'm in Canada too.
> 
> Would you get rid of your 5L reactor?
> Do you think it is fixable?
> ...



Re: 5L reactor, yes it is repairable. Freight to and from glass blower makes it impracticable cost wise when a replacement flask is cheaper coming from China. At present I'm not going to invest the $450.00 in a new flask.

As the small reactor is now I'm able to use it for processes not needing to be heated.

I have an insurance claim against the small reactor which was approved by Purolator.

The large 10 liter reactor shipped in three separate packages and yes I had to pay Duty on it, you better have a good story ready for Canada Customs when they phone or your shipment maybe seized by Customs if they suspect the reactor is going to be used for illicit purposes.


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## rusty (Jun 12, 2013)

The reactor comes with a whole set of rules of its own not documented, I would suggest using water inside then bring the reactor up to working temperature for a few hours. What this does is season the parts having different expansion rates.

Once the reactor has cooled down go over all the fittings making necessary adjustments by tightening the bolts as needed. Once this has been done you should not have to check on these fittings again for some time to come.

After I run a load and empty the vessel, I leave the bottom valve fully open then flush with fresh water to remove any possible grit from the bottom valve. Before reassembly I wipe down the glass to glass surfaces on the lid to vessel surfaces removing any possible grit that could score the surfaces.

When I eventually get around to processing the milled cats, rather than use the PTFE paddle to agitate the media will use air injection to assist agitation.

Then with removal of the spent media mount a vibrator onto the reactor frame.

As for processing finely divided powders, rapid and constant stirring can cause problems especially when the acids are hot. At the moment this function is controlled manually turned on as I feel its needed for short durations. As you can see from the attached picture my boil over was contained within the reactor.

Had I been using a beaker on a hot plate would have used a corning ware casserole to contain the boil over, then I would have had to spend time reclaiming the spill and cursing myself for letting it happen in the first place.

In case of a possible bottom drain failure I keep a Rubbermaid container large enough to hold the contents of the reactor should the bottom drain valve for some reason fail.


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