# small button and sand



## Romix (Aug 28, 2014)




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## Claudie (Aug 28, 2014)

Are you sure that's sand? Almost looks like unmelted Gold or maybe clay.

EDIT: Almost forgot, nice looking button there! :mrgreen:


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## Smack (Aug 28, 2014)

Looks like unmelted gold to me, better get a bigger torch.


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## sebass (Sep 1, 2014)

nope ,sand...it is gold , but not melting god . do you have a gas lamp ? i give pictures with my lamp wendsday.oki ?


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## Irons (Sep 1, 2014)

Romix said:


>



I don't see any flux on the Melting Dish. That may be your problem. 8)


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## Claudie (Sep 1, 2014)

Irons said:


> Romix said:
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> 
> >
> ...



I was thinking the same thing. :|


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## Anonymous (Sep 2, 2014)

I'd be more concerned at someone even thinking that it's sand in the first place.

I've also yet to see a melt where there's a perfect gold button and around it unmelted gold in powder form, regardless of how much flux was used (or not.)

Is this a wind up? It just doesn't add up when you look at the deposits on the crucible.


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## heliman4141 (Sep 4, 2014)

Romix said:


>




Im curious,
What are you using to try to melt your Gold? Looks to me like improper heat applied. Without flux it still should have melted, only issue then is the bead would stick to the crucible or may not bead together but instead bead up all over & seperate, properly applied flux in advance of a melt allows the melt to gather & roll easily into a central bead & not stick unless you seasoned it with way too much borax, which is just as bad as not enough because then you have excess borax on the bead when its removed.
I use oxy/acel, its not the cleanest burn but its super fast so if its done fast the contamination is kept at min., propane is much cleaner but its much much harder to reach the melting temps quickly with propane unless you make a small enclosure with hi temp insul to trap the heat on the sides, bottom & top.

Dave


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## Romix (Sep 5, 2014)

I used this lighter to melt gold.




Easily melts gramm, 1 - 2 minutes heating it.

And after melting it in to nice shape i poured cold water in a melting dish.


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## FujiGoldOne (Sep 5, 2014)

You Sir need to get yourself a proper torch compared to what u are using atm.


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## Claudie (Sep 5, 2014)

I think that may be part of the problem. You should also glaze that dish.


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## yar (Sep 22, 2014)

I have never heard of pouring water into a melting dish, why do you do that?


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## Claudie (Sep 22, 2014)

I must have missed something. Who said anything about pouring water in the dish? :|


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## g_axelsson (Sep 22, 2014)

Claudie said:


> I must have missed something. Who said anything about pouring water in the dish? :|


Romix ...


Romix said:


> Easily melts gramm, 1 - 2 minutes heating it.
> 
> And after melting it in to nice shape i poured cold water in a melting dish.


No, I don't understand why either.

Göran


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## Claudie (Sep 22, 2014)

Thank you. I need to learn to read UNDER the pictures  
I wouldn't recommend pouring water into the melting dish. I would think that might break the dish, even if it didn't, it would cause the button to stick in any glazing material that may be present. 
Instead, I will take the button out of the dish with pliers or large tweezers, then dip the button in water.


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## Harold_V (Sep 23, 2014)

FujiGoldOne said:


> You Sir need to get yourself a proper torch compared to what u are using atm.


And you need to stop using the letter "u" if you mean the word_ you_, and spell words out fully. Text lingo is strictly forbidden on this board. 

Harold


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## Harold_V (Sep 23, 2014)

Romix said:


> And after melting it in to nice shape i poured cold water in a melting dish.


As you've seen, that's not a recommended process, nor is it required. When heat is removed from the button, it will freeze (set) within seconds. If you've properly seasoned your melting dish, at that point you can pluck the button from the dish, using a tweezer, without issue. That way you have done nothing to harm your melting dish, which can be reused numerous times. 

The button, plucked from the dish, may have traces of borax attached. Drop it in a small vessel in which you have some dilute sulfuric acid. Heat it (keep it covered with a watch glass) and that will dissolve the attached borax. 

Do not melt in a dish that has not been seasoned. If you don't understand the seasoning process, you really should do more reading. 

Harold


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## machiavelli976 (Sep 25, 2014)

Romix said:


> I used this lighter to melt gold.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have the same cheap chinese torch.
25 grams pure gold button is the biggest done with that . Guess I might run over one troy ounce , without any flux. But must be done something tricky to avoid losing heat.

That means no ceramic melting dish , first .


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## Romix (Sep 29, 2014)

g_axelsson said:


> Claudie said:
> 
> 
> > I must have missed something. Who said anything about pouring water in the dish? :|
> ...



Otherwise it sticks to the dish.


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## Geo (Sep 29, 2014)

Not if you prepare the dish with borax correctly.


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## Romix (Dec 29, 2014)

Rubbish lighter brakes one after another!


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## necromancer (Dec 29, 2014)

this is a ok torch,







slowly heat your melting dish until hot, sprinkle some borax over the dish & make sure it is melted & 100% covered

then ad your gold powder for melting.

if you use a dry dish your gold powder will blow away & while melting some will absorb into the dish.

does anyone have a link to Lazersteves video ?


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## Shark (Dec 29, 2014)

http://goldrecovery.us/site.asp

Lots of useful information there. Scroll down and find links for the video's you need.

Edit: The login information is on the page as well.


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## Romix (Dec 29, 2014)

Dish is rubbish also, need to get new one, made of graphite.


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## martyn111 (Dec 29, 2014)

Romix said:


> Dish is rubbish also, need to get new one, made of graphite.



As you are UK based and in need of reliable melting dishes, these are the ones myself and spaceships use.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2Pcs-Gold-Silver-Platinum-Refine-Silica-Melting-Melt-Dishes-Pot-Casting-/371220912990?pt=UK_Crafts_JewelleryMaking_GL&hash=item566e7d9b5e

I have no financial interest in you buying these dishes, only posting the link so that UK based members can benefit from using reliable equipment at a reasonable price.


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## necromancer (Dec 29, 2014)

i also like using one of these, i have a propane torch that i set under my melting dish while i am melting with mapp gas.

its not needed but is a handy device.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WHIP-HAND...821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebacd894d

edit: forgot to ad link


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## Harold_V (Dec 29, 2014)

Romix said:


> Dish is rubbish also,


Perhaps you can tell us why? Dishes such as those shown are the very dish recommended for melting gold and silver in small quantities. What problem have you experienced that makes you think you are different from all others, who enjoy success using that very dish?



> need to get new one, made of graphite.


No, you don't. 

What you really need to do is start paying attention to the information that has been provided to you. In doing so, you may discover that your gold melting venture is far less challenging. You seem to think that the methods you've chosen are acceptable. They aren't. No one (in their right mind) melts gold in an unseasoned melting dish, nor do they pour water in the dish once gold is melted. A graphite crucible is NOT recommended, nor is there any benefit in using one. Not for gold. Quite the contrary, if you are using a heat source that is borderline capable of melting your gold, it most likely won't be able to melt it at all in a graphite dish/crucible, as the heat losses will be far more extreme. 

Harold


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## Anonymous (Dec 30, 2014)

As Martyn has pointed out we use the small crucibles combined with a Mapp Gaz torch. 

You don't need any insulation at all. In fact we melt with the crucible resting on a piece of plasterboard. I don't know what you guys call the gypsum coated wallboard in the US? but this is perfect and doesn't catch fire. 

We've melted up to 90G in one of these with one torch with no problems whatsoever.

Harold's words make a lot of sense Romix. Listen to the guys who have been there, done it, and worn the tee shirt. They are genuinely trying to help, not hinder.

Jon

Edit for context.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 30, 2014)

spaceships said:


> As Martyn has pointed out we use the small crucibles combined with a Mapp Gaz torch.
> 
> You don't need any insulation at all. In fact we melt with the crucible resting on a piece of plasterboard. I don't know what you guys call the gypsum coated wallboard in the US? but this is perfect and doesn't catch fire.
> 
> ...



Sheetrock


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## Anonymous (Dec 30, 2014)

Ahh! Thanks Barren


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## necromancer (Dec 30, 2014)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> spaceships said:
> 
> 
> > As Martyn has pointed out we use the small crucibles combined with a Mapp Gaz torch.
> ...




drywall in canada


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## Harold_V (Dec 30, 2014)

When individuals post *nonsense* such as has been posted on this thread, there's the risk of newbies assuming that what they read is acceptable practice. Sort of reminds me of watching productions on youtube, made by those who either have no clue, or intentionally intend to mislead readers. All of us have an obligation to speak out, correcting the misinformation, otherwise this board will have little credibility. 

Harold


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## necromancer (Dec 30, 2014)

Harold_V said:


> When individuals post *nonsense* such as has been posted on this thread, there's the risk of newbies assuming that what they read is acceptable practice. Sort of reminds me of watching productions on youtube, made by those who either have no clue, or intentionally intend to mislead readers. All of us have an obligation to speak out, correcting the misinformation, otherwise this board will have little credibility.
> 
> Harold



if i may be so bold as to ask ?
could you point out the nonsense, it would be helpful to us all if we could correct any of the misinformation.

i would not think any members intended to mislead others.

thank you for pointing this out to us, i always welcome your honesty.


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## g_axelsson (Dec 30, 2014)

necromancer said:


> Harold_V said:
> 
> 
> > When individuals post *nonsense* such as has been posted on this thread, there's the risk of newbies assuming that what they read is acceptable practice. Sort of reminds me of watching productions on youtube, made by those who either have no clue, or intentionally intend to mislead readers. All of us have an obligation to speak out, correcting the misinformation, otherwise this board will have little credibility.
> ...


Going back on this thread I would guess the rubbish thing is
* Melting gold in an unseasoned dish
* Pouring water in the dish to loosening the gold
* Stating that the dish was "rubbish"
* Suggesting that melting gold in a graphite dish should give better result

The last point is even contra productive, melting gold in a graphite mold would reduce any base metal oxides into metal that alloys with the gold, reducing the quality of the final product. Normally copper chloride for instance is converted into copper oxide and absorbed by the borax but in a graphite dish it would be converted into copper and alloyed with the molten gold.

And just to add a small note, it might be possible to melt gold with just a dish on some sheet rock / drywall / plasterboard / gipsskiva (last one is in Swedish 8) ) it will be easier to melt with a better insulation on the bottom, reducing the heat loss. That's plain physics.

Göran


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## necromancer (Dec 30, 2014)

g_axelsson said:


> necromancer said:
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> > Harold_V said:
> ...




thank you,


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## Harold_V (Dec 31, 2014)

necromancer said:


> if i may be so bold as to ask ?
> could you point out the nonsense, it would be helpful to us all if we could correct any of the misinformation.


Göran covered it perfectly well, and I thank him.



> i would not think any members intended to mislead others.


I can't speak for his motive, but Romix has posted a series of comments that simply can't be allowed to stand. It is clear, at least to me, that he has a poor understanding of what he's trying to accomplish. As I said, there are those who don't know, and may interpret his comments as being acceptable, sending the wrong message to those who are here trying to learn. 

Harold


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## necromancer (Dec 31, 2014)

Harold_V said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> > if i may be so bold as to ask ?
> ...



thanks Harold, Göran was more on the ball then myself, i did see that Romix was a newbie with a lot of bad info + lack of experience.

just wanted to be sure it was only Romix. we do see over & over that many new members want all the answers / methods made into a tutorial video & mailed to there home so they can get rich over night. but all the experienced members know better & get a bit frustrated answering the same questions many times a month.

Dave


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## Geo (Dec 31, 2014)

Dave, That's the beautiful thing about the forum. The seasoned members answer questions whenever they can until they get burned out. As the new members learn more, they take up the slack of the older members by providing information that they learn. As long as the information is sound, the progression of information through the ranks can travel a long time. Without members who clearly know better correcting the small mistakes, the information being passed along gets corrupted. If the new members coming through the ranks learn misinformation, they teach it to the next hopefuls. Members like Harold takes the time to correct the mistakes before it has a chance to be passed on. It's a lot harder to unlearn something wrong than to learn it right the first time.


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## Anonymous (Dec 31, 2014)

g_axelsson said:


> And just to add a small note, it might be possible to melt gold with just a dish on some sheet rock / drywall / plasterboard / gipsskiva (last one is in Swedish 8) ) it will be easier to melt with a better insulation on the bottom, reducing the heat loss. That's plain physics.
> 
> Göran



Goran there is absolutely no "might" about it. It's practical, extremely easy, and works every time. The Mapp Gaz generates more than enough heat to allow it to work both quickly and safely. 

Happy New Year to you mate I hope you're having a good evening 8) 

Jon


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## necromancer (Dec 31, 2014)

Geo said:


> Dave, That's the beautiful thing about the forum. The seasoned members answer questions whenever they can until they get burned out. As the new members learn more, they take up the slack of the older members by providing information that they learn. As long as the information is sound, the progression of information through the ranks can travel a long time. Without members who clearly know better correcting the small mistakes, the information being passed along gets corrupted. If the new members coming through the ranks learn misinformation, they teach it to the next hopefuls. Members like Harold takes the time to correct the mistakes before it has a chance to be passed on. It's a lot harder to unlearn something wrong than to learn it right the first time.




i fully agree. just wish this post was posted on youtube :lol: 

thanks Geo + Howard and everyone who enjoys the GRF like i do (Happy New Year)


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## joekbit (Mar 20, 2015)

Harold_V said:


> Romix said:
> 
> 
> > Dish is rubbish also,
> ...



Thank you Harold

(unseasoned crucible) 

For some reason I can not see the images. I am assuming his dish is a borosilicate. They need to be seasoned before use. That being said, you can recover the crucible. I have done it. Use a scribe ( sharp pointy object) and chip out the contamination and save it. At that point you will have a rough surface, season it until it is smooth and clear, like a piece of fine porcelain. Take the material you chipped out, pulverize it, and use dilute HCL, hot, I did mine in a microwave. Just a few seconds is all it takes and the dirty glaze will break down. At that point you can use your choice to recover any gold that was suspended in the glaze chipped from the dirty crucible.

It works. I recovered over 1/2 a gram from a dirty crucible doing just that. Time spent about 1 hour. The crucible shines like a mirror and has melted 4 grams since.


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## Romix (Jun 23, 2015)

Romix said:


> Dish is rubbish also, need to get new one, made of graphite.


No, I'm wrong, it's a very good dish, specially working with pure precious elements. 
In graphite it might alloy with carbon, could it? 

I wont to know material it made from, electric furnace out of it will be perfect for start, for low melting point elements and solders.


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