# Converting PC Power supply for use with silver cell



## kadriver

I am not an electrician or computer expert. Please be very careful.

This info is for demonstration only. If done incorrectly, then you could get electricuted or cause a fire and burn your house down!

Here is the procedure that I used and got good results:

First, I removed a pc power supply from an old computerand check the panel on the side.

The one I have uses an orange wire for 3.3 volts - this will work for the silver cell voltage.


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## kadriver

Next, find the main plug. The one I have has 20 pins.

On this main connector there is a green wire.

cut this green wire, and any black (ground) wire.

I used the black wire right next to the green one.

Once both of these wire have been cut from the 20 pin connector, strip off some insulation to expose the ends of each wire - about 1/2 inch.

Then, join these two wires with a wire nut.

If you don't do this step, then the power supply will not energize when you plug it and turn it on.


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## kadriver

Try to find a power supply that has an on/off switch so you don't have to unplug it all the time to turn it off.


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## kadriver

Next, locate a DC outlet plug that has an ORANGE wire.

The orange wire is the one that will produce 3.3 volts.

Cut the orange wire and one of the black wires.

Strip the ends of each wire and install alligator clips.

I use a solid copper alligator clip to attach to the anode pole sticking out of the top of the anode basket.

The cheap nickle plate ones do not last long at all but can be used for the cathode connection.


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## kadriver

Here is what the wires look like when they are in use.

The orange wire carrying 3.3 volts at 28 amp goes to the adode bars on top of the cell.

The black wire goes to the cathode wire that is connected to a hard graphite block in the bottom of the cell.

Hope this is helpful.


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## kadriver

Here is a video on youtube of the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CulknomS9hE

kadriver


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## samuel-a

Nice post Pete.

Only one thing i can add and is important.

Once the green and black wires are connected, you have to make to sure, when you turn on the PSU (or plug it in the wall) that there is a load, meaning, you need to connect the cell before energizing it or the PSU will short and shut down permanently.

There are some types of PSU's that use their internal fan as a load, in this case, ther's no worry...


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## metatp

samuel-a said:


> Nice post Pete.
> 
> Only one thing i can add and is important.
> 
> Once the green and black wires are connected, you have to make to sure, when you turn on the PSU (or plug it in the wall) that there is a load, meaning, you need to connect the cell before energizing it or the PSU will short and shut down permanently.
> 
> There are some types of PSU's that use their internal fan as a load, in this case, ther's no worry...


Thanks samuel-a. That is the problem I was having. I could test the connection no problem with my voltmeter, but when I connected it to the cell, it would short. I will try you suggestion tonight.

kadriver for the great post!

HTPatch


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## notch

samuel-a said:


> Nice post Pete.
> 
> Only one thing i can add and is important.
> 
> Once the green and black wires are connected, you have to make to sure, when you turn on the PSU (or plug it in the wall) that there is a load, meaning, you need to connect the cell before energizing it or the PSU will short and shut down permanently.
> 
> There are some types of PSU's that use their internal fan as a load, in this case, ther's no worry...



The 5 V. supply needs to have a load on it in order to work properly. I've found that a resistor in the 5- 10 K ohm range from the red to black wires,works, that way you won't have to worry about having it set up.


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## metatp

Well, I don't know why my power supply is not working correctly. I test the connection, and it is at 3.4v, but when I connect it to my cell, it powers down. I tried connecting it to the cell and then powering on, and I get the same thing. It tries to power up, but then powers down. maybe i need another power supply. I will try some of the other wires to see if the same happens.

Regards,
HTPatch


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## samuel-a

HTPatch said:


> I test the connection, and it is at 3.4v, but when I connect it to my cell, it powers down. I tried connecting it to the cell and then powering on, and I get the same thing.



Once you powered it with no load or a resistor (as notch suggested), it will default.... but you could still get voltage readings...
I'm no electrician and don't know exactly how it works... if you can, grab another PSU, brigde it (green + black), connect your cell and then powder it up.

If the PSU was functional when removed from the tower, there's no reason why it will not work.

good luck


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## notch

HTPatch said:


> Well, I don't know why my power supply is not working correctly. I test the connection, and it is at 3.4v, but when I connect it to my cell, it powers down. I tried connecting it to the cell and then powering on, and I get the same thing. It tries to power up, but then powers down. maybe i need another power supply. I will try some of the other wires to see if the same happens.
> 
> Regards,
> HTPatch



The Power Supply could be Current-Limiting. Try connecting it to a dummy load. A low value resistor around one Ohm or less and measure your voltage.

If it's drawing more Current than the Power Supply is designed for, it will shut down.


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## Geo

what about a 3v flashlight bulb.


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## NoIdea

Geo said:


> what about a 3v flashlight bulb.



Well their bright when connected to 3VDC, and come in many pretty colours. :mrgreen: 

Sorry Geo, im just in one of those moods :lol: 

Deano


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## notch

Geo said:


> what about a 3v flashlight bulb.



Not enough of a load to test, although in might be good to act as an indicator light.

An old Toaster might do in a pinch. Measure the resistance at the AC plug with the lever down. The label on the Power Supply will tell you what the Current rating is. Use that as an indicator as to how much of a load it will take before it Current Limits.
The safety features are there to protect us from ourselves.


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## winterssoul

For a load to prevent he psu shorting you can use an old cd drive,hard drive or anything similar I don't know about those old floppy drives but using one of those(cd hdd) should solve the shorting problem hope this help and I apologize for any typos I'm using my black berry to type this


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## metatp

winterssoul said:


> For a load to prevent he psu shorting you can use an old cd drive,hard drive or anything similar I don't know about those old floppy drives but using one of those(cd hdd) should solve the shorting problem


Thanks for the suggestion. I tried a DVD drive and that worked. Thanks.

One more question for anyone. To test this, I connected the PC power supply to my current silver cell. I did not remove the power supply I was using. I noticed the amount of amps doubled. Does anyone see an issue with running both of them together? The crystals appear to be growing faster and they look the same.

Thanks,
Tom


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## metatp

I spoke too soon. It was not because the DVD drive was connected, it was because the other power supply was running. When I shut off the other power supply, the PC power supply shorted out. I am now trying to run both of them at the same time and see what I get today.


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## johnny309

A load is necessary on the 5 volts rail in older PC power supply(named AT and they have a start button)....the never version(named ATX ...like the one that Kadriver has...has a resistor load internally) 
Another thing...if you are planning to go over 10 amps on the 3.3 volts rail it is better to use more wire...meaning more orange wires together and more black wire together ....


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## Grassbur

would the same procedures work for converting this power supply from a pc. it has 8 outlets labled P1 (20 pin), (P2 & P3), (P4 & P5), (P6 & P7 & P8) the last 3 groups seem to be connected or run from the same hot wire. my guess is there is a total of 4 hot wires coming off this unit. if i wanted to get the full 5 volts and 25 amps into one wire and not short out the unit. what steps would i take to do this and would i need to add any devices to this if i wanted to regulate the voltage?


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## Geo

the color code of the wires are somewhat universal,not all power supplies are the same but the color codes are.red,yellow,orange and black + green.yellow = 12v,red = 5v,orange = 3.5v,black = Ground.


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## bisjac

kadriver said:


> Next, find the main plug. The one I have has 20 pins.
> 
> On this main connector there is a green wire.
> 
> cut this green wire, and any black (ground) wire.
> 
> I used the black wire right next to the green one.
> 
> Once both of these wire have been cut from the 20 pin connector, strip off some insulation to expose the ends of each wire - about 1/2 inch.
> 
> Then, join these two wires with a wire nut.
> 
> If you don't do this step, then the power supply will not energize when you plug it and turn it on.




just so everyone reading this topic knows. if you are nervous about dealing with wires, there is an option.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3606/pcipowerbr.jpg

the bottom item in that pic. its a power switch for a "motherboard" for the 20pin to plug into. it can power the PSU on and off with the switch on it, just as if it were plugged into a real mobo.

this set cost me 100 bucks, but that power switch unit alone goes much cheaper.
http://www.hwtools.net/PDF/SWEX_brief.pdf
http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4H.html
http://www.hwtools.net/index.html *main site*


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## jmdlcar

Hi all, I have a computer power supply from a HP mini tower 160 watts would it be able to put out amp to be use with silver cell? Thanks Jack


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## Harold_V

jmdlcar said:


> Hi all, I have a computer power supply from a HP mini tower 160 watts would it be able to put out amp to be use with silver cell? Thanks Jack


Yes, but that's conditional on two things. The voltage that is available, and the size of the cell. Unless you have some strange condition(s), you need less than 4 volts, and amperage will relate to the surface area of the anode(s). If memory serves, you can run at about 50 amps/square foot. I ran lower and enjoyed success. I'm not convinced the power supply will provide an ideal voltage. I used to use a Variac to control voltage, which, in turn, controls amperage. 

Harold


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## jmdlcar

Hi, The output is 3.3v at 7.0a so can the silver cell be 1 quart or can it be bigger? Thanks Jack


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## philddreamer

Hi Jim!

When I was building my silver cell, Chris (GSP) helped me out. My cell work better than I expected!
Here's a note:


> At most, each amp applied will both dissolve and deposit about 4 grams of silver per hour. However, for best results, the amps used should be limited to about 10 amps per gallon of solution and about .35 amps per square inch of anode surface area, only calculating the side of the anode facing the cathode. At that amperage (actually, current density), the voltage will fall between 3-4V in a well constructed cell.
> GSP



I hope this helps.

Phil


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## jmdlcar

Hi, So it should work. I will be doing 1oz at a time if it is that much. I will be going to yard sales to see what can fine and what can buy. Thanks Jack


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## Harold_V

jmdlcar said:


> Hi, So it should work. I will be doing 1oz at a time if it is that much. I will be going to yard sales to see what can fine and what can buy. Thanks Jack


Hardly worth the effort, Jack, but yes, it should work quite well. I was thinking you had 5v as the lowest available. You likely understand from that, that I don't know a great deal about power supplies from computers! 

The point about not being worth the effort---it's a bit of work setting up and running a cell. A small one such as you propose will be a great learning experience, and guide you in building a larger cell in the future. I definitely would not discourage you, but it's going to take a long time to process silver that way. You'd want something larger if (or when) you have more to process. 

Harold


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## jmdlcar

Hi, That power supply output are +3.3V @ 7.0A, +5.0V @ 12.0A, + 12.0V @ 6.0A, - 12.0V @ -0.1A and +5. 0Vsb @ 1.5A now can someone let know. Thanks Jack


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## FrugalRefiner

Jack, I'm not sure if you're waiting for any further answers. I can't tell if you've asked a question:


> ... now can someone let know


If you're unsure of how to modify your power supply for use on your cell, go back to the beginning of this thread and read through it again. kadriver does a good job of explaining it.

If you're still wondering if you can use your power supply to run a 1 quart cell, the answer is yes it should work. Although it doesn't put out as many amps as the one kadriver uses, that shouldn't cause you any problems. Your cell will probably not try to draw more than the 7 amps your power supply can provide. If it tries to pull more than the power supply can provide, the power supply could shut down in the same way it does in the case of a short. If it does then you'll know you need a bigger power supply.

Dave


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## Geo

Grassbur said:


> would the same procedures work for converting this power supply from a pc. it has 8 outlets labled P1 (20 pin), (P2 & P3), (P4 & P5), (P6 & P7 & P8) the last 3 groups seem to be connected or run from the same hot wire. my guess is there is a total of 4 hot wires coming off this unit. if i wanted to get the full 5 volts and 25 amps into one wire and not short out the unit. what steps would i take to do this and would i need to add any devices to this if i wanted to regulate the voltage?



it should be the large red wire. the rest of the diagram is the same as in earlier post.


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## jmdlcar

Thanks I have a already modifly it I just to make sure it was big to do the job. The size of the cell won't be no bigger then 1 quart. I need a piece of hard graphite for the cathode. My question is will a brush out of a electrical motor work for a cathode? Thanks Jack


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## Geo

i dont think motor brushes are just graphite. i know they contain copper but im not sure what else they contain.


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## FrugalRefiner

Jack, a piece of stainless steel will work well for your cathode and may be easier to come by and to work with depending on the design of your cell.

Dave


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## jmdlcar

FrugalRefiner said:


> Jack, a piece of stainless steel will work well for your cathode and may be easier to come by and to work with depending on the design of your cell.
> 
> Dave



Do you use stainless steel? Should it be square and what size should it be? About the wire how should I attach the wire to the stainless Steel? Thanks Jack


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## philddreamer

Jack, remember that the anode will need about .35 amp's per square inch of anode facing the cathode.
So you need to decide the size of the anode first, according to your power source; then the cathode should be made at least the same square area as the anode facing it, or up to twice the area of the anode.

Phil


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## Palladium

Here is a simple design I made from Harold and Chris's recommendation. I use a stainless steel (Non-magnetic) 300 series mixing bowl I got for $1 at trade day. I then took a kitchen cutting block (hdpe) and cut it into two pieces. Cost $7Wal-Mart. http://www.professionalplastics.com/HDPECUTTINGBOARD
Couple of yards of muslin cloth Walmart $4. I then cut a 3in round hole with a whole saw. Drilled four holes in the top for stainless steel screws to run through so the two pieces can be clamped together. Take and cut two pieces of cloth 10in x 10in and push them through the whole to form a sock that hangs out the bottom. Then lay the other piece on top and screw them together like a sandwich. Then sit the cover on the bowl and let the sock hang down into the solution. The anode is your silver and your cathode is the whole bowl. Just clip a lead on the rim of the bowl and your good to go. The paper towel is for reference only. It takes me only a few minutes to break it down if I have to.


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## Palladium

The prize. :mrgreen:


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## metatp

I use stainless steel and it seems to work better than graphite for me.

Tom


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## nickvc

Personally I think the prize should go to the cell that's one of the best pieces of lateral thinking and use of easy and cheap to obtain materials that I have seen and to top it all I suspect it works really well and is easy to use 8)


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## Oz

Nice crystal Ralph.


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## Harold_V

nickvc said:


> Personally I think the prize should go to the cell that's one of the best pieces of lateral thinking and use of easy and cheap to obtain materials that I have seen and to top it all I suspect it works really well and is easy to use 8)


Ralph's?

I agree, to say nothing of the beautiful crystals he grew. In my mind, his setup is excellent for the guy that intends to run small lots. 

Harold


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## butcher

Thanks Ralph, nice job, I like the anode bag Idea, If you used clear Plexiglas you could see inside the cell.


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## Palladium

I thought about that Butcher but from what i have read plexiglass don't like nitric or fumes.


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## RESET

Harold_V said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I think the prize should go to the cell that's one of the best pieces of lateral thinking and use of easy and cheap to obtain materials that I have seen and to top it all I suspect it works really well and is easy to use 8)
> 
> 
> 
> Ralph's?
> 
> I agree, to say nothing of the beautiful crystals he grew. In my mind, his setup is excellent for the guy that intends to run small lots.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...


I don't know about small. HDPE is available in 4'x8' sheets and commercial mixing bowls go all the way up to 50 gallons.

All that aside. I think this is going to be my cell when I am ready to start purifying silver from cementing.


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## samuel-a

Palladium said:


> I thought about that Butcher but from what i have read plexiglass don't like nitric or fumes.



Ralph

You can use Al racks to hang you anode bag, of course you need to insulate it.
I just hanged the anode and the bag (tied to it) together by a tightening clamp.
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=11546&hilit=bowl#p116045

Those are some nice crystals btw.


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## scrappile

samuel-a said:


> HTPatch said:
> 
> 
> 
> I test the connection, and it is at 3.4v, but when I connect it to my cell, it powers down. I tried connecting it to the cell and then powering on, and I get the same thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once you powered it with no load or a resistor (as notch suggested), it will default.... but you could still get voltage readings...
> I'm no electrician and don't know exactly how it works... if you can, grab another PSU, brigde it (green + black), connect your cell and then powder it up.
> 
> If the PSU was functional when removed from the tower, there's no reason why it will not work.
> 
> good luck
Click to expand...

Edit to add leak voltage  
Solid state components can have voltage show on a digital meter and not provide it for a load, 

It's the "Crowbar " circuit for protection , this is a screen shot , much better than 
I could explain,

Edited for size 
may be just a blown fuse for those that connected with out a load, some are board mounted with some in a fuse holder close to the AC Power cord inlet


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## mikeinkaty

I have a LOT of DC wall transformers and several adjustable voltage regulators. The wall transformers cost nothing and the adjustable voltage regulators (3 amps max) cost me about $3.00 to build.

I need to see a well designed cell made for light duty. Anyone have pics or a web URL?

Forgot to say that I also have two 20 amp DC variacs that I used for electrolysis on cast iron carpenter planes. Voltage is variable.

Edit - I just saw Palladium's setup. That is neat! I already have a SS bowl and some plastic too. One question - how do you connect the lead to the silver bar? Will a large bowl prevent the crystals from growing to the bag?

Mike


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## Palladium

I pour a silver rod about 6 inches long, lay the bars in the bottom of the bag, and stick the rod on top. The bars will dissolve down first and then the rod will begin to eat away until it's almost consumed. Disconnect the rod portion that's left and then lay it on the bottom and start over again.


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## mikeinkaty

Has anyone ever put an ampmeter in the cell circuit to see what it is actually drawing? Generally speaking the more distance between the anode and cathode the more voltage is necessary to provide a given current. And, how hot do your cells get when in operation?


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## Clneal2003

I'm still very unclear on how to tell what power supplies I can use. I've seen the stainless steel bowl design a few time on the web but haven't pin pointe what people are using as the power supply? I like the stainless steel bowl design because it's a smaller set up and since I haven't attempted the electrolytic cell yet... I know if I screwed up I wouldn't lose as much as if I jumped into the deep end. Can you simply hook up a manual battery charger to the cathode and anode? I'm very small scale yet intelligent... But I can never seem to find what people use for their power supplies. Those always seem to get left out of the photos. I'm looking for something simple... Not a volt meter with power supplies and amplifiers and flux capacitors


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## FrugalRefiner

Clneal2003 said:


> But I can never seem to find what people use for their power supplies. Those always seem to get left out of the photos. I'm looking for something simple... Not a volt meter with power supplies and amplifiers and flux capacitors


Try reading this thread again from the beginning.

Dave


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## GotTheBug

I finally gave up on atx power supplies. So frustrating to me figuring out how to keep it from shorting and the over voltage protection.
In true fashion, for me, and maybe Deano, I built the beast. Results will be forthcoming when I finish the rest of the setup, but it does run 7.5 volts at around 200 amps.


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