# Hats and what to do with them



## anachronism (Mar 30, 2017)

Guys

Any pointers on the hats in this batch and the best way to get to the insides in a timely manner? 

All advice and guidance welcome.


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## g_axelsson (Mar 30, 2017)

What exactly do you mean with "hats"? Is it the transistors or the connectors?  

Göran


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## anachronism (Mar 30, 2017)

The top hats Goran. I'm pretty well sorted on the connectors.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 30, 2017)

Probably transistors. I would say hammer but if you get bigger quantities then I have seen nice small shredder which can be ideal for this kind of material.
http://www.filamaker.eu

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaz6Ff23fsA[/youtube]


If you put screen on bottom you can shred them to desirable size.


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## snoman701 (Mar 30, 2017)

The only way I've managed to get inside is a hammer. The top hat seems to be crimped on steel.

If you've got a medium amount, drilling a hole the same size as the body of the top hat in a plate of steel, then hitting them from the side with a chisel should work. I'd want 20 or 30 holes in a line so I could work in batches. I've probably got a couple pounds of these, so I'll be interested to see what you come up with.




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## snoman701 (Mar 30, 2017)

Ok.....just tried this. 

47% nitric....the bubbles are coming from the plated base. 








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## goldsilverpro (Mar 30, 2017)

TO5s. Kovar. Try hot 40%, by volume, HNO3. When the kovar is gone, use AR. Some of these have a gel-like material in them. I haven't processed those but I think some members have.


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## snoman701 (Mar 30, 2017)

After 30 minutes. 








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## snoman701 (Mar 30, 2017)

I had to continually add acid as the reaction shifted from the copper base to the cap. You have to maintain a constant free acid %. But after 30 minutes they just fell apart like that when I dumped the test tube.


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## anachronism (Mar 30, 2017)

goldsilverpro said:


> TO5s. Kovar. Try hot 40%, by volume, HNO3. When the kovar is gone, use AR. Some of these have a gel-like material in them. I haven't processed those but I think some members have.



Thanks Chris.

Sno thanks for the pics - looks good.


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## g_axelsson (Mar 31, 2017)

Found this post from Chris http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5535&p=47531&hilit=gold+transistors#p47531

Göran


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## anachronism (Mar 31, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> Found this post from Chris http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5535&p=47531&hilit=gold+transistors#p47531
> 
> Göran



Thanks


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 31, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> Found this post from Chris http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5535&p=47531&hilit=gold+transistors#p47531
> 
> Göran



Read the whole thread. Arthur got very good yields. You might experiment a little with the acid concentration. I'm thinking 40% but it's been a long time.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 31, 2017)

Looking a little more closely, some of those may not have any gold on them, although it may be the photo. Generally, if you can't see any gold on the outside, there is likely no gold on the inside - check them. During my time in this business, I've seen them go from (1) everything gold plated to (2) everything but the top hat gold plated to (3) nothing gold plated, with a few other steps in between. The real old fully plated ones are often coated with black paint.

The smaller top hats are TO18s, I believe.


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## modtheworld44 (Mar 31, 2017)

goldsilverpro said:


> Looking a little more closely, some of those may not have any gold on them, although it may be the photo. Generally, if you can't see any gold on the outside, there is likely no gold on the inside - check them. During my time in this business, I've seen them go from (1) everything gold plated to (2) everything but the top hat gold plated to (3) nothing gold plated, with a few other steps in between. The real old fully plated ones are often coated with black paint.
> 
> The smaller top hats are TO18s, I believe.



The (2) kind are easy to Identify while still on the board just look for the small square gold plated tab that sticks out the side of the base part.If not a (1) or (2) I leave them on.I can provide a picture if that would help.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 1, 2017)

Some of the "hats" I got with the nasa scrap, just wouldn't let their foils go, even after repeated dilute nitric leaches (hot). Finally, I decided to add about 5 mL of sulfuric to the hot nitric leach, and it took off like a bat out of hell. Now there are tons of little hat foils floating around.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 1, 2017)

Great idea, Topher. That very well could be the best way to run them.

Snoman,
I doubt very much that the header is copper. Note that the leads are sealed and insulated from the metal with glass. If I recall, Kovar and Alloy 42 (I think) are used for these glass-to-metal seals since their coefficients of expansion are the same as the glass. This prevents micro cracks and leakage. Copper wouldn't serve the same purpose.


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## snoman701 (Apr 2, 2017)

If the "header" is the base, i have no clue what it is made out of. There is a pretty big variety in these parts. Some have a stamped base filled with adhesive, some have the hermetic seal as you describe...I think that some are actually built in reverse, where the silicon chip is actually mounted to the hat, then the bottom filled.

The picture that I posted, if you look close enough, shows that the edges of the transistor were eaten away, while the cap was mostly untouched. I may be able to show a better picture if I can figure out how to crop. It is just a transistor though, a hermetic seal is not always necessary I don't think, as I'm almost positive I have composite structures that just have a top that is glued in to place. 

Either way, I don't think that my method is practical for more than a hundred or so...I much prefer the idea of just eating the entire thing up.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 2, 2017)

goldsilverpro said:


> Great idea, Topher. That very well could be the best way to run them.



It worked great for some of the ones with 3 leads, but the square topped ones, and ones with multiple legs had seemingly no effect after the first and subsequent leaches.

I suppose I should clarify, in case someone wants to try that.

I had a hot 40% nitric solution. I diluted 5 or 10mL of sulfuric with about the same amount of water (didn't want to just dump sulfuric in to hot nitric and have it erupt). It immediately went to work on the iron in the parts...and did so, with vigor. Had I not only had my beaker 1/3rd full, it surely would have been an overflow accident. So those that do end up trying nitric with a bit of sulfuric, be cautious.

Edit to fix quote


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## Findm-Keepm (Apr 3, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> If the "header" is the base, i have no clue what it is made out of. There is a pretty big variety in these parts. Some have a stamped base filled with adhesive, some have the hermetic seal as you describe...I think that some are actually built in reverse, where the silicon chip is actually mounted to the hat, then the bottom filled.
> 
> The picture that I posted, if you look close enough, shows that the edges of the transistor were eaten away, while the cap was mostly untouched. I may be able to show a better picture if I can figure out how to crop. It is just a transistor though, a hermetic seal is not always necessary I don't think, as I'm almost positive I have composite structures that just have a top that is glued in to place.
> 
> Either way, I don't think that my method is practical for more than a hundred or so...I much prefer the idea of just eating the entire thing up.



The header is populated, and the "cap" is then resistance welded to the header.

Here's a look inside a virgin header:

http://www.talonix.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=15212

Cheers,


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