# Flower garden border - shale



## alloy2 (May 31, 2015)

Richard what is your take on the rock border along the outside of this flower garden, I broke one open and it looks like there maybe some metallics present.


----------



## Richard36 (Jun 1, 2015)

The orange and yellow stains are Goethite and Limonite, both are iron minerals formed from the weathering of Iron Pyrite.
It could contain gold in micron form, but it doesn't look promising.


----------



## alloy2 (Jun 13, 2015)

Thanks Richard. I have since found something with a bit more promise.

Assay shows everything but the kitchen sink, 21 elements with Platinum at 17ppm


----------



## g_axelsson (Jun 13, 2015)

17 grams platinum per ton is huge, what type of assay was made and what is the error of measurements?

Göran


----------



## galenrog (Jun 13, 2015)

Yes, indeed. 17ppm, or 17gpt is an EXTREMELY rich ore. I suspect that you may have been given erroneous information. I do, however, concede that your new source could be rich with platinum. I would also love to see a copy of the assay. If it proves true and it is exploitable, you could have a new line of work.


----------



## alloy2 (Jun 14, 2015)

C-con the largest cat buyer for western Canada did an XRF homginized and pressed 3 buttons. 


They calibrate the Niton every two weeks, if I could figuré out how to do a screen shot smart phone would gladly post the assay results.

A bit of history on my discocery. The gracel coming from the pit goes through a wash plant to remove silt.

The wash plant has three pits the sample came from the first pit where the larger stuff settles out.

Yesterday managed to grab a sample from the seconed pit where the fine sludge sertles out befor the water goes into third pit where the pump picks it back up as recycled water.

From this seconed pit after running a cupful of slimes in AR discocered this is where the flour gold ended up.

The flour is so fine it goes into AR almost imediately.

My original plan with using Ccon was to have them to act as my broker so that I could ship to Stillwater in Montana. Even though the numbers look good from the assay still not good enough for Montana this material needs to be dressed up more

Rings for a new 12 inch centrifuge build should be ready Monday.

Goran was right the first build was a disaster but did work to a point and gave me a better understanding of how these things are supposed to work.

I have since aquired all the drawings for the Hy-G centrifuges manufactured by my deceased friend Don Bremner. Using what I learned from my own build along with some of Don's technolgy will get it right this time.


----------



## acpeacemaker (Jun 14, 2015)

Screenshot is usually power button and the volume down button at the same time. Can also be the home button with down. AB,AB,down,up,down,up then you yell out Mortal Kombat. :lol:


----------



## alloy2 (Jun 14, 2015)

acpeacemaker said:


> Screenshot is usually power button and the volume down button at the same time. Can also be the home button with down. AB,AB,down,up,down,up then you yell out Mortal Kombat. :lol:



Thanks we now have a screen shot of the assay.


----------



## alloy2 (Jun 16, 2015)

New 12 inch centrifuge build drum and rings are made drom AR400 steel.

This centrifuge can process 160 lbs a minute slurry containing 60 percent solids.


----------



## alloy2 (Jun 24, 2015)

Cheap centrifuge build.


----------



## Lou (Jun 25, 2015)

So how exactly do these work?

I'd love to have a centrifuge out of titanium or glass lined steel, but if I had to choose between one of those and a Lamborghini...hm.


This doesn't filter does it, this just gravity concentrates stuff, ostensibly?

Lou


----------



## g_axelsson (Jun 26, 2015)

A correct working centrifugal concentrator have water inlets in the bottom of the riffles and forces water in to fluidize the material. As gold is heavier it sinks faster and is concentrated in the bottom. The higher g-forces in the centrifuge is amplifying the difference in settling time between lighter and heavier material. When the riffles are full the centrifuge spins down and the material is washed down in a central hole in the bottom.

Gill's first centrifuge was a disaster since he skipped the water inlets and the material only compacted into a solid mass. When that happens matter stops to move around and it just sits there, squeezing the water out of the material. When the riffles are filled up any additional material is just washed over the edge. Like panning gold in a gold pan without shaking it, just pushing the material over the edge.

Göran


----------



## 4metals (Jun 26, 2015)

Emak in Turkey makes a centrifuge which is useful for small refiners. It looks like this;




It has 2 opposing sleeves to hold the material you are centrifuging. This is the top of the unit and you can see one of the sleeves in the unit. On the floor is one of the buckets made for the liquid you are centrifuging. 




One excellent application is for Jewelers sweeps which classically filter slowly. 5 minutes in a centrifuge and the solution is on top of a well packed layer. I like to add water and mix the packed sludge, effectively rinsing, and run it a second time. 

Another bonus application is for small karat gold refiners doing small scale waste treatment dropping metals as a metal hydroxide sludge. This is classically run through a filter press, a costly piece of equipment. This is the sludge sampled on a spoon in the bottom of the buckets used in the centrifuge generated after 5 minutes in the centrifuge. The clear liquid was poured off leaving a firmly packed metal hydroxide cake.




The small centrifuge has 2 sleeves each holding about 1 gallon. They make one holding about 5 gallons per sleeve.


----------



## alloy2 (Jun 29, 2015)

Yes I would have to agree my fist centrifuge buid was a dismall failure but disagree with goran on the nesessity of having a fliudidised bowel.

Fir those of you that add sugar to your coffee 
If you stir viguourisly in a circular motion you will notice the liquid in the cup forms a vortex in the center of the cup.

Put more energy into stirring the liquid will overflow the rim of the cup.

Centrifug e for gold and precious metals recovery is meant to compact materiial by their specific gravity.

If you fed the centrifuge flower gold dust covered feathers and water feathers would be retained while the flowee gold dust and water would be rejected.

Same would happen if you fed the centrifuge a mixture of flower gold flake and nuggets. Your going to loose the flower and manority of flake while retaining the nuggets.


----------



## 4metals (Jun 29, 2015)

I agree with Alloy, the centrifuge works by the action of the more dense particles displacing the less dense particles. A fluidized bed would defeat the purpose. 

The centrifuge I posted on the post above is not a flow through system but it still uses the centripetal force to put the more dense particles on the bottom and the less dense on top. 

A flow through system uses the flow of water to rinse the less dense particles free of the bowl while the centripetal force pushes the denser particles to the wall where the flow through of water will not displace them so they are retained in the bowl.


----------



## g_axelsson (Jun 29, 2015)

I'm not going to repeat all the arguments I wrote once. Here is the post I wrote about centrifuging and gold extraction from milled material (ore or IC:s).

IC cons for Resabed01 http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=17717&start=0#p180573

/Göran


----------



## alloy2 (Jun 29, 2015)

g_axelsson said:


> I'm not going to repeat all the arguments I wrote once. Here is the post I wrote about centrifuging and gold extraction from milled material (ore or IC:s).
> 
> IC cons for Resabed01 http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=17717&start=0#p180573
> 
> /Göran



Goran I freely admit that centrifuge was a failure. The main reason it failed was operator error, I fed more material into the centrifuge than the small six inch bowel was capable of handling as a consiquence of my ignorance at the time valuble material was lost with the discardd material leaving the bowel.

Maybe someday we can come to terms and have a meaningfull discussion on centrifuges and how their used to amplify the specific gravity of a given material bh artificial means.

Until then I have no further comment to make on the subnect.


----------



## g_axelsson (Jun 29, 2015)

4metals said:


> I agree with Alloy, the centrifuge works by the action of the more dense particles displacing the less dense particles. A fluidized bed would defeat the purpose.
> 
> The centrifuge I posted on the post above is not a flow through system but it still uses the centripetal force to put the more dense particles on the bottom and the less dense on top.
> 
> A flow through system uses the flow of water to rinse the less dense particles free of the bowl while the centripetal force pushes the denser particles to the wall where the flow through of water will not displace them so they are retained in the bowl.


I disagree, just as the riffles in a washing plant stops working if they are filled up with gravel so does a centrifuge too. When the material settles on the bottom (or wall) it won't move any more. Any solids locked in will remain locked in until it is removed or washed away with water. In a fluidized centrifuge a carefully adjusted flow keeps the material from settling hard and allows the more dense particles to sink faster and concentrate in the bottom.

The centrifuge you showed above is great for it's cause. It might look like the heavy particles are working it's way to the bottom but that's only from initial settling. When the particles have settled they are stuck and won't move. Any lighter particles must be free to move to be able to wash away.

If the material is in a clay state, as the metal hydroxides there might be some movement for a while when the material is wet enough. Just as a stone on dry clay just sits on the surface, but when the clay is wet the stone can sink.

Göran


----------



## 4metals (Jun 29, 2015)

There is a centrifuge on the market used for a flow through application to remove metal hydroxides from a waste stream without a filter press. http://www.dfwind.com/Saginaw-/Industrial-/Barrett-clarifuge-no-225-1-gallon-40-lb-cap-20132.DO

The bowl has a finite capacity before solids you are trying to collect will start to flow out of the bowl. If the bed was fluidized the capacity to collect solids would be diminished. 

I think the bowl in Alloy's centrifuge also has a finite capacity to concentrate values and after it has filled to capacity it will overflow and values will pass out of the bowl. Göran's point of a fluidized bed makes sense to a point as it will allow the more dense particles to pack in further but in a scenario where the centrifuge is passing solids out of the bowl, fine tuning the operation to the point where the values are retained and the less dense and lesser value overburden will pass out of the bowl is difficult. 

In a situation where what passes out of the centrifuge is clear water it is easy because you can visually see when it becomes ineffective. When you pass some solids but not all, and the values are fine particles mixed with overburden which is also fine particles, it is impossible to see its effectiveness. 

So I can see Göran's point about a fluidized bed allowing what is collected to be a higher percentage of values than an non fluidized bed, I question is the benefit worth its cost.


----------



## alloy2 (Jun 29, 2015)

Eighty eight thousand versus fifteen hundred dollars.


----------



## g_axelsson (Jun 29, 2015)

alloy2 said:


> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not going to repeat all the arguments I wrote once. Here is the post I wrote about centrifuging and gold extraction from milled material (ore or IC:s).
> ...


I don't think it's me that have to come to terms as how centrifuges work and the physics behind. I still say that your centrifuge had a fatal construction error, just as your current one seems to have.

At the time you were talking about how great your centrifuge was and how good it was working. I would never do such claims without any proof, for example a successful extraction of gold from milled IC:s. As you now admit that it was a failure it means that you had no proof at the time and that it worked great was just wishes.

This forum is based on facts and not wishes, I just want to keep the forum based on reality and I will contest any claims based on wishes in any area that I'm having any expertise in. I might be wrong, but prove me wrong by showing something that works, not dreams under construction.

Last time your claims made at least one member to lose material they had worked hard for, I'm a moderator now and I have a responsibility to our members to look out for them and rise a warning flag when I see something untested or wrong.

So, did your last centrifuge have a construction error in it or was it working fine but operator error made it fail?

Göran


----------



## g_axelsson (Jun 30, 2015)

4metals said:


> There is a centrifuge on the market used for a flow through application to remove metal hydroxides from a waste stream without a filter press. http://www.dfwind.com/Saginaw-/Industrial-/Barrett-clarifuge-no-225-1-gallon-40-lb-cap-20132.DO
> 
> The bowl has a finite capacity before solids you are trying to collect will start to flow out of the bowl. If the bed was fluidized the capacity to collect solids would be diminished.
> 
> ...


The advantage of a centrifuge when removing solids from a liquid waste stream is obvious and I don't doubt that. The solids compact against the wall with clear water flowing over the top. When the system have reached it's capacity it has to be spun down and cleaned out before taken into service again. This could easily be done automatically or by an operator in a short time.

If you use a centrifuge for concentrating ore (or from other sources) where you are sorting denser material from lighter with a water flow then a centrifuge with riffles becomes a sluice on steroids. But a normal sluice works because turbulence washes out the material behind the riffles and fluidize the materials. When a sluice becomes filled up with material it stops working or works a lot worse than when there is open space behind the riffles.
For a centrifuge with riffles it's almost impossible to create a water flow that would give enough turbulence to grab the lighter material and wash it out at the end. Therefore the centrifuges used in mining uses a separate water flow from the bottom of the riffles to fluidize the concentrate and allow the heavier particles to sink to the bottom of the material that have collected in the riffle. Example of this is Knelson separators.

Knelson separator






It seems that Falcon concentrators uses a slightly different way, I haven't found a description good enough to see what the main difference between the both types are, but it also creates a fluidized bed somehow.

Falcon separators
http://www.seprosystems.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82&Itemid=471

At least the Knelson separator needs to be spun down and cleaned out when enough material has concentrated in the riffles. For the Falcon concentrator I don't know if it's a continuous system or if it needs to spin down for extracting the concentrate, but I have a feeling it is continuous operating and constantly delivers a concentrate.

I've already spent too much time researching this subject, so if anyone wants to dive into and do some research, feel free to do so and report back here. It's always fun to read about exciting technology. 8) 

Göran


----------



## alloy2 (Jun 30, 2015)

Goran you only read and retain parts of my posts you can use as amunition.

I said my centrifuge was opperator error in that I over fed the bowel exceeding it's capibilitys.


----------



## jeneje (Jun 30, 2015)

Gill, you back at it again. :lol: 

Ken


----------



## Lou (Jun 30, 2015)

Yeah when I think centrifuge I think one meant for filtering slurries and doing solid/liquid (or liquid/liquid in SX) separations.


----------



## alloy2 (Jul 1, 2015)

jeneje said:


> Gill, you back at it again. :lol:
> 
> Ken




Yup. 

Sometimes being stupid pays off with new discoverys being made.

I used potasium metabisulphate to precipitate some gold running short on pariance decided to zinc out the gold from a large coloum of soloution.

What I found is that the bubbles from the zinc reaction helped to drop the au as a side benifit as a coagulated brown mud.


----------



## alloy2 (Jul 4, 2015)

Hypothectically speaking if you had a cenrifuge coloum ten feet tall the heavier precious metals would collect in the first couple of bottom rings while copper and other lighter would find preferance in ring slots higher up.

Fractional recovery, is it possible.


----------



## g_axelsson (Jul 4, 2015)

alloy2 said:


> Hypothectically speaking if you had a cenrifuge coloum ten feet tall the heavier precious metals would collect in the first couple of bottom rings while copper and other lighter would find preferance in ring slots higher up.


Not practically, you need really good trimming of the speed, the size of the material and flow rate. If just a bit off most solids would fill up the first ring, then the next one and so on. When a ring is full any new material will just skip over it and go to the next ring, no matter if it's heavy or light.

If it was that easy you could just skip the last 9 feet of the centrifuge as they only would collect light material. But the real world isn't that easy which you will find out.


alloy2 said:


> Fractional recovery, is it possible.


You forgot the question mark, but the answer is : No, not with solids and a simple centrifuge.

Göran


----------



## alloy2 (Jul 15, 2015)

Lou said:


> So how exactly do these work?
> 
> I'd love to have a centrifuge out of titanium or glass lined steel, but if I had to choose between one of those and a Lamborghini...hm.
> 
> ...



Never thught of having the ezposed.parts glass lined, I suppose it wouls worl aa mosr hihh end domestic hot water tanks are glass lined.*

Bearings were an issue for me but have since discovered that ceramic bearings are alkilin and acid resistant.

For your intended purpose I don"t think a fluidized bowel is nessesary.


----------



## alloy2 (Jul 15, 2015)

Goran the Au in the gallon jar was recovered after using the new centrifuge you said would not work.


----------



## g_axelsson (Jul 16, 2015)

I can see a gallon jar with some brown sediments in the bottom and colored liquid above. Is it all gold? That's a lot! It must be kilos!

Last time you told us your first centrifuge was working and showed us a lot of pictures of colored liquids and sediments but now you admit it was a disaster, what makes this any different?

Göran


----------



## alloy2 (Jul 19, 2015)

The beautiful peacock colors of arsenic.


----------



## alloy2 (Aug 7, 2015)

g_axelsson said:


> I can see a gallon jar with some brown sediments in the bottom and colored liquid above. Is it all gold? That's a lot! It must be kilos!
> 
> Last time you told us your first centrifuge was working and showed us a lot of pictures of colored liquids and sediments but now you admit it was a disaster, what makes this any different?
> 
> Göran



Larger bowel with deeper riffles.


----------



## g_axelsson (Aug 7, 2015)

alloy2 said:


> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> > I can see a gallon jar with some brown sediments in the bottom and colored liquid above. Is it all gold? That's a lot! It must be kilos!
> ...


You didn't understand what I asked.

Last time you showed pictures on jars with brown sediments and colored liquids above that tested positive for leached gold and you told us it was working but now you admit the first centrifuge was a disaster. So the pictures of brown sediment wasn't gold and no proof of a working centrifugal separator.

This time you show us similar pictures on brown sediment with colored liquid above it. Why would that make any proof of a working centrifuge when the last time it apparently wasn't a proof?
Where is the gold? Is it the sediment? Dissolved in the liquid? Wat was the starting material and how much? How much gold was extracted and how much went straight through the centrifuge? How much concentrate was left over after you run the material through the centrifuge?

If you don't know then you don't know if the centrifuge is working or not.

Göran


----------



## alloy2 (Aug 7, 2015)

g_axelsson said:


> 17 grams platinum per ton is huge, what type of assay was made and what is the error of measurements?
> 
> Göran



Goran the local ready mix gets its gravel from a pit located in a precious metals zone, after washing the gravel the heavier metals such as Pt. settle out in the first pond fine gold carries over with the slimes to the the second pond, water carries over to a third pond where it is picked up by the pump to be recycled.

I'm currently working the slimes from the second pond.


----------



## Research135 (Aug 7, 2015)

A titanium mine maybe?. :shock:
XRF is useless for this type of work.


----------



## alloy2 (Aug 7, 2015)

Research135 said:


> A titanium mine maybe?. :shock:
> XRF is useless for this type of work.



Agreed, but XRF is a good starting point.


----------



## Research135 (Aug 7, 2015)

alloy2 said:


> Research135 said:
> 
> 
> > A titanium mine maybe?. :shock:
> ...


I politely disagree. A mining quick fusion assay takes about an hour, and costs less than $10.00 . If you are seriously prospecting, I recommend that route.


----------



## alloy2 (Aug 7, 2015)

Similar to Wisdom's You Can Smelt Too,


----------



## alloy2 (Aug 25, 2015)

Small ball mill FOB $1000.00 cdn, located Penticton B.C..


----------

