# Rhodium percent



## jaan777zaibs (Nov 19, 2021)

Hello Respected Members
A person has some material of 10kg. It has 9.7% Rhodium in the laboratory report. It has small pieces of 300-400 grams that collectively, make its weight 10 kg. The material is lightweight, very fragile (can be easily broken), dark black in color with small silvery shining particles as well as small round grain size particles. My question here is should I buy this material and what should be its value as well as how can I process the Rhodium from it? All your valuable answers would be highly appreciated. The pictures and laboratory report are attached.
Kind regards;


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## Lino1406 (Nov 19, 2021)

1. Finely grind 100 mesh and more
2. Try panning


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## jaan777zaibs (Nov 19, 2021)

Thanks for your answer. can you please elaborate it a little more? I can,t understand it completely.


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## Lino1406 (Nov 19, 2021)

100 mesh means 1/100 of an inch, and finer, best 500 mesh - dust. Panning means gravity separation using water


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## goldandsilver123 (Nov 19, 2021)

There's no rhodium.

That's instrument error, this software is made to analyse dense materials, like metals, analysing rocks will result in errors.

If you put a piece of acrylic it will show 10 % rhodium, because of this error


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## jaan777zaibs (Nov 19, 2021)

goldandsilver123 said:


> There's no rhodium.
> 
> That's instrument error, this software is made to analyse dense materials, like metals, analysing rocks will result in errors.
> 
> If you put a piece of acrylic it will show 10 % rhodium, because of this error


Thank you Sir.


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## NanoCat (Nov 20, 2021)

it looks like a schist. We have seen Au come out of schist and PGMs always run with Au to some extent or another. And yes XRF instrument errors are common. Even if the XRF is correct, you still need to figure out how to A. get the Rh into solution and then B. how to get it to a Refinable state. Can't hurt to grind it up super fine, then put it in a Krups coffee grinder SF102 I think the one with replaceable blades. Grind it up to talcum powder size. Now see what happens with HCl, pool shock, and H2O2, really hot. Get that exhaust fan going before you start cooking.


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## MarkSovnin (Sep 24, 2022)

jaan777zaibs said:


> Hello Respected Members
> A person has some material of 10kg. It has 9.7% Rhodium in the laboratory report. It has small pieces of 300-400 grams that collectively, make its weight 10 kg. The material is lightweight, very fragile (can be easily broken), dark black in color with small silvery shining particles as well as small round grain size particles. My question here is should I buy this material and what should be its value as well as how can I process the Rhodium from it? All your valuable answers would be highly appreciated. The pictures and laboratory report are attached.
> Kind regards;


If you need rhodium refined in powder, then I can sell it to you.


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 24, 2022)

MarkSovnin said:


> If you need rhodium refined in powder, then I can sell it to you.


This post belongs in the Buy and Sell section.


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## Ultrax (Sep 24, 2022)

MarkSovnin said:


> If you need rhodium refined in powder, then I can sell it to you.



*It is forbidden to sell or buy rare earth metals originating from Russia.*
Russian Federation is under strict US sanctions due to the aggressive war in Ukraine.

*Sellers and buyers are subject to broad criminal liability for the illegal rare earth metals trading with Russia.*


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## rushmore37 (Nov 30, 2022)

I have small amounts of black powder that contain RH from 10-35% plus likely other PM's. These were obtained via a proprietary lab leach process that ran several separate two pound tests on dressed concentrates from ores in the Mojave dessert and also some from the SD Black Hills. A local coin shop tested a few of these on their 100K+ machine. My question from anyone knowledgeable is how do I best separate and/or refine the materials so as to have them as separate AU, AG, RH, PD, PT, and any others within the mix, so I can get an idea of potential quantities of each. As I recall I ran separate extraction on any AG so that may not still be in the mix, maybe AU too. Is there a ladder that would indicate one should begin with one or another followed by the next, in sequence? If I can get answers to these variables, then I can step up this process in a more logical fashion. I also wonder if a mixer-settler system would be viable that could separate these various metals in sequence and perhaps rare earths as well. Any ideas greatly appreciated -- Thanks!


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 30, 2022)

rushmore37 said:


> I have small amounts of black powder that contain RH from 10-35% plus likely other PM's. These were obtained via a proprietary lab leach process that ran several separate two pound tests on dressed concentrates from ores in the Mojave dessert and also some from the SD Black Hills. A local coin shop tested a few of these on their 100K+ machine. My question from anyone knowledgeable is how do I best separate and/or refine the materials so as to have them as separate AU, AG, RH, PD, PT, and any others within the mix, so I can get an idea of potential quantities of each. As I recall I ran separate extraction on any AG so that may not still be in the mix, maybe AU too. Is there a ladder that would indicate one should begin with one or another followed by the next, in sequence? If I can get answers to these variables, then I can step up this process in a more logical fashion. I also wonder if a mixer-settler system would be viable that could separate these various metals in sequence and perhaps rare earths as well. Any ideas greatly appreciated -- Thanks!


Much to comment here.
First PlatinumGroupMetal salts are very toxic. 
So you might consider having it refined by a proper lab or sold directly.
But to do that you need a proper PGM assay, which are not cheap.

I do not think anyone would buy on a XRF assay, even with a 100k machine they may not necessarily have sufficient precision.


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## galenrog (Nov 30, 2022)

It is my opinion that the local coin shop you mention has an XRF machine loaded with a Precious Metals Library. This means the software is designed to identify precious metals, and metals commonly associated with precious metal alloys.

This likely being the case, and I would need actual evidence contrary to change my opinion, such software commonly misidentifies arsenic and many sulfide compounds as iridium, rhodium, or platinum. 

This has been discussed on the Forum innumerable times and demonstrated by several members.

In short, an XRF device, regardless of how expensive, is only as good as the combination of software, also called library, calibration, and operator knowledge and expertise, with operator knowledge of library limitations being primary.

Time for more coffee.


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## rushmore37 (Dec 2, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Much to comment here.
> First PlatinumGroupMetal salts are very toxic.
> So you might consider having it refined by a proper lab or sold directly.
> But to do that you need a proper PGM assay, which are not cheap.
> ...


Appreciate your response. Do you have any suggestions as to "proper lab" s, or direct buyers? When I last checked, there were a couple large operators but they wanted a minimum value of $5-10,000, but when you are working on tiny lab results you really do not know how much value is in these tests. A PGM assay makes a lot of sense but again, who does these and approximately how much do they cost, since they are not cheap, and how much material do they need per test in order to assay? On the other hand, results of these could be much more valuable than the costs since major plus or minus decisions could be made based on them. Thx!


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## rushmore37 (Dec 2, 2022)

galenrog said:


> It is my opinion that the local coin shop you mention has an XRF machine loaded with a Precious Metals Library. This means the software is designed to identify precious metals, and metals commonly associated with precious metal alloys.
> 
> This likely being the case, and I would need actual evidence contrary to change my opinion, such software commonly misidentifies arsenic and many sulfide compounds as iridium, rhodium, or platinum.
> 
> ...


Thank You for your observations. Yes, I will check on their machine specifics as I know already about the false positives regarding PGM's of some of this equipment. On the other hand, the leaching process that extracted these results is a sound process developed by a long-time processor/professor, but it was necessary to scale it down to lab size and it is possible that some of the results may have slightly changed. Dressing the ore before leaching is paramount. Also, I substituted a few ingredients in order to keep the process "green" in case I decided to do this in CA, rather than transport the cons to another state. Testing during the process showed that the results were as good or better than what might have been expected but the truth will be in the pudding, so to speak, after assay(s). Then again, these tests were done several years ago and then interrupted by health issues and a few major surgeries which I am now finally recovering from. Coffee sounds good but the days of late have had nights that have been very late and days too long.


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 2, 2022)

rushmore37 said:


> Thank You for your observations. Yes, I will check on their machine specifics as I know already about the false positives regarding PGM's of some of this equipment. On the other hand, the leaching process that extracted these results is a sound process developed by a long-time processor/professor, but it was necessary to scale it down to lab size and it is possible that some of the results may have slightly changed. Dressing the ore before leaching is paramount. Also, I substituted a few ingredients in order to keep the process "green" in case I decided to do this in CA, rather than transport the cons to another state. Testing during the process showed that the results were as good or better than what might have been expected but the truth will be in the pudding, so to speak, after assay(s). Then again, these tests were done several years ago and then interrupted by health issues and a few major surgeries which I am now finally recovering from. Coffee sounds good but the days of late have had nights that have been very late and days too long.


You could start by telling us what procedure you are following.
The majority of lab procedures are done for research papers and do not scale or transfer well to real life condition.
We have professional PGM refiners as members, so by giving us more information they might chime in and give some good advice. 
Anyways, I would guess all your questions have already been answered before, so search the forum.

Regarding green chemicals, that is like a mirage, many talk about them but the moment you have dissolved a metal it is as “dirty” as anything else.
Especially is that a extremely dangerous perception if one deals with PGM salts.

Which chemicals are you talking about?


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## rushmore37 (Dec 3, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> You could start by telling us what procedure you are following.
> The majority of lab procedures are done for research papers and do not scale or transfer well to real life condition.
> We have professional PGM refiners as members, so by giving us more information they might chime in and give some good advice.
> Anyways, I would guess all your questions have already been answered before, so search the forum.
> ...


Yes, I agree with you on the scale or transfer to real life conditions, as I too have experienced this with many things. As time permits I will also search the forum and have already learned some valuable info there. When I speak of green ingredients, I am taking into consideration the entire process so that anything made dirty can also be made un-dirty via filtration, neutralization, etc. Oftentimes, the results at a certain stage might be further transferred to an external (or internal) refiner or other processor for finishing and completion, probably even in another acceptable state or jurisdiction. I can't really get into specifics at present because it is too premature until I am more confident of the total envisioned process and actual results obtained. Many times even small solutions to problems can open up larger gateways for progress. Also taken into consideration at each level are the steps that might be needed to go from lab to pilot to small scale to even medium or large scale.


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 3, 2022)

rushmore37 said:


> Yes, I agree with you on the scale or transfer to real life conditions, as I too have experienced this with many things. As time permits I will also search the forum and have already learned some valuable info there. When I speak of green ingredients, I am taking into consideration the entire process so that anything made dirty can also be made un-dirty via filtration, neutralization, etc. Oftentimes, the results at a certain stage might be further transferred to an external (or internal) refiner or other processor for finishing and completion, probably even in another acceptable state or jurisdiction. I can't really get into specifics at present because it is too premature until I am more confident of the total envisioned process and actual results obtained. Many times even small solutions to problems can open up larger gateways for progress. Also taken into consideration at each level are the steps that might be needed to go from lab to pilot to small scale to even medium or large scale.


Fair enough.
Anyway I doubt there are procedures not known by our professional refiners that will have merit outside a lab.
And what ever procedure you use, if it actually work, it will most likely already be in use by our members.

If you want advice, we need to know what you are doing.


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## rushmore37 (Dec 4, 2022)

It seems the procedures used to obtain my lab results samples, which consisted of a leaching process, are now a mute point, since it appears I will likely have to send these samples to a third party lab/refiner to generate those actual assay results. At that time I can then begin making decisions as to a direction to go. I have not proceeded with anything beyond obtaining these leach results, so there are no procedures that I have taken in that regard as yet. I have done assays of gold and silver before, but to assay PGM's is a process beyond my capabilities at the present time. One could monkey around with Aqua Regia and things, but it would be helpful to know what ingredients are more or less present, prior to experimenting in ways that might otherwise alter values of things that may or may not be economic in nature. My primary goals are towards scaled production of desired product, assuming the assay results point to an economic given direction.


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