# General Safety Precautions -Everyone Please Read This



## lazersteve

Now that things are getting going in this forum it's time for everyone to get past the Chemistry basics.

First and foremost if you haven't done your homework on EVERY CHEMICAL you are dealing with, you are asking for a disaster. You should use Google and Wiki to look up *EVERY CHEMICAL* you will be coming into contact with.

http://www.google.com and http://www.wikipedia.org

Start with a google search for the chemical name followed by ' MSDS'. Next search wiki for the chemical name and study the information therein. This is very important for your own personal safety!





No amount of gold is worth losing your vision, skin, brain, or LIFE over!

Some of the chemicals used to process the gold change forms from solid to gas when heated or mixed with other substances. Some of the liquid by products produced are deadly and absorbed thru the skin. You need to know how to avoid these things BEFORE you get started.

The number one rule of Chemistry is: SAFETY FIRST!

If you can't find information on a substance PM me and I'll find it for you.

Steve


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## NaNO3

This post was needed.thankyou


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## dwt9999

Steve,

THANKS FOR LOOKING OUT FOR THE NEW GUYS!!!

Lew


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## gb10101

Steve,

Great thoughts on the safety issue....

Have you ever heard of this potential safety issue? The process I am using is a recovery cell, which contains sulfuric acid with a atouch of glycerine. While exchanging e mails with someone who professed to be a chemist, I was warned that with contamination, the acid could becone nitric vs. sulfuric, and there would be the potential of inadvertantly cooking up a batch of nitroglycerine. 

Now, since then I have only been processing my filters etc, and have yet to begin processing in the cell... Would hate to end up in the bottom of a crater so to speak.

PErhaps this is completely incorrect, and perhaps not... Just looking to see if anyone else has eard of this, or if there is another chemical to take the place of the glycerine to eliminate the possibility.

Again, Thanks in advance...

Gary


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## lazersteve

Gary, 

I've never heard of it. 

On the topic however here's what I figure.

Air is almost 80% Nitrogen (78% actually) and about 20% O2 (21%).

Add to this some arcing from a battery charger lead that is acring due to poor a contact with your anode and you can potentially form NO2 which is the basic molecule for the production of nitric acid (HNO3).

As for the production of nitoglycerin there's more to the formula than just mixing A with B. I won't go into that here. Additionally, considering the minute amount of Glycerin used in the cell and the amount of Nitro formed would be minescule, not to mention the fact that the proper chemical ratios to form the nitro would not realistically exisit in the cell. 

I keep my cell covered while it's not in use so it doesn't asorb atomospheric compounds (water, nitrogen, bugs, etc.). I keep my anode connections clean and solid so they don't arc, which reduces the efficiency of the cell thru heat and current losses.

Great post, keep up the good work.

Steve


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## Noxx

Thanks steve for this great initiative.


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## gb10101

Steve,

As ridiculous as it sounds this was worth mentioning if only for my peace of mind.

What you have represented, albeit in greater detail, is what I had surmised on my own. Perhaps part of it was looking for confirmation that others utilizing a cell were employing glycerin as well. While I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent, I am not only new to the recovery world but to chemistry also, which provides me with an opportunity to learn something new.

I will be posting some pictures of my process, materials and final rewards as well. 

Thanks yet again,

Gary


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## lazersteve

Gary,

I've said it before and I'll say it again, no ONE person knows everything. By sharing our knowledge and experiences we will all ultimately benefit.

Your previous post was a great point, I had never even considered the possibilty of nitro being formed while working with the cell.

Thanks,

Steve


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## Anonymous

Steve,
Thank you for your concern for our safety (especially the newbies). All new members of the forum should be directed to the Chemical-MSDS links.
Thanks again,

Arthur


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## zauggart

a great idea ! i have actually printed copys of msds just to have on hand in case ya never know . i also keep a 20litre pail of water close by as well as a fire extinguisher.
Ian


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## Noxx

That's what everyone should do


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## draftinu

Along with your MSDS binder an "Emergency Spill Response Kit" is a good investment!


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## PreciousMexpert

MSDS binder an Emergency Spill Response Kit
i went on the internet to find the binder and the kit and i could not fin it


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## lazersteve

Buy a binder at WalMart along with some plastic sheet protectors. 

Place all of your MSDS's in the sheet protectors and clip them into the binder.

Keep this binder handy in your work area for quick references in case of emergencies.

Steve


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## jfraz

thank you for all of the knowledge you give us for our general safety.


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## Trigg3r

Thank's for the reminder Steve. As newbie most ( if not all) the process of refening can be very dangerus.
to all new ppl on the forum i advise to look in the safety topic, as well , it has a lot of very god precautions given by experinced ppl.
this forum has been the quite a found for me, it has absolutly everithing i ever planed to achive, im not a chemist, nor a refiner, this is to start a hobby, and safety is, with out any doubt, the number 1 concern for me.
My best toghts to u all.


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## bklopsy

Thanks Steve. 

The issue of safety and taking precautionary measure can not be stated enough. As a newbie I have tried to be as cautious as possible and yet today I experienced my first slight boil over when adding a little extra subzero to my solution. 

I thank you for your concern and your leadership. 

Brooks


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## antonio0615

Thank you Steve. I am a beginner who has learned a lot. But have not actually tried anything yet. I have learned about safety also. I look at the pictures everybody places here of gold they have recovered and I think, 'I sure wish I could do that. ' I have a little amount of gold. But it's not processed yet. I want to be sure of what I am doing first. Like you mentioned , I don't want to lose an eye, poison myself etc. Thank you for the safety tips.


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## lazersteve

Antonio, 

I applaud you on your post, it shows your are not only determined, but cautious.. both are very good qualities to have when refining.

I look forward to seeing your first golden nugget in the gallery section.

Steve


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## old thompson

You can also find saftey info on chemicals from the CDC National Institute for Ocupational Saftey and Health _ Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards_.

Use the search function.http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/search.html

:shock: :shock: :shock:


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## Lonnie

Yes Safty should always come first so I'm pleased to see this topic . 

gb10101

I think it's nitric acid you do not want to mix with Glycerin . But yes I have read of this danger . But I agree with who ever said it to google up every chemical you plan to touch . Plus google up hazards assoated with using said chemicals and even mixing them . 

Simple things like never add water to concentrated acid , always add concentrated acid to water ( slowley ) could save an eye or a serious chemical burn or possably your life . 

So yes Steve thanks for this topic as suggested reading , everyone should spend plenty of time learning safty related do's and do nots .


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## capt_dugout

As a noob here this was one of my first steps and yet here I am again. The more I learn the more questions become aware of that need answers proir to beginning. This being said it occured to myself that some might just simply read msds sheets. With many years of hazmat exp. I know that many hazardous materials can not be stored without msds sheets on the property (check your state and federal codes .. http://www.fedcenter.gov/assistance/facilitytour/hazardous/) . This could result in an unexpected expense associated with this hobby (Gov. fines) that could end the hobby. 
Keep the msds sheets in the vicinity of tour work in plain sight, should there be an accident emergency response would have valuable info on hand as to the possibilities as to why you are unconcious on the floor and treat you properly.
For me it will be some time before i try to process any gold as I know how toxic some of these chemicals are and I will need to construct seporate storage facilities with spill containment for different chemicals, this will help when the feds show up as I am sure they will (due to popular misuse of many chemicals I will be aquiring) I plan on having all my ducks in a row and epa has a lot of info http://www.fedcenter.gov/programs/chemical/ ... for now will be collecting e-scrap and educating myself until I haver safer facilities.


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## dtectr

Smart man. Like my grampa used to say, "Measure it twice & cut it once." He also said, "trust in G**, but tie up your horse."


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## Musika

Just as far as general safety goes, a good bucket of sand at hand has been a good thing to have around in my experience. Puts out fires much safer than water. (When working with liquid aluminum, water turns to instant steam and can cause serious steam burns, thus sand was a great idea)

Just my two cents,

Musika ♫


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## paul49601

Thanks guys. I am really new. I know nothing about this yet but will learn rapidly. I know about MSDS
from being in the military and working in factories but I see that I had better do my own due dilligence.

I used to own a computer business and threw out thousands of old computers that went to the dump
because the closest recycling place is 120 miles away. Now I will try to become the recycling place
and hopefully limit the waste in the dump and yet make a profit.

Any adivce you can give would be appreciated. My overall goal is to recycle EVERYTHING. I do not want
to be part of the problem in the landfills.

Thanks Again
Paul


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## Red Serpent

Thank you indeed !


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## Hoplit

As a new member on this board I have to express My respect to- and thankfullness for- the initiative ofYours Steve to write about the precautions to be obsevant to :!: 
Thanks a lot 8)


lazersteve said:


> Now that things are getting going in this forum it's time for everyone to get past the Chemistry basics.
> 
> First and foremost if you haven't done your homework on EVERY CHEMICAL you are dealing with, you are asking for a disaster. You should use Google and Wiki to look up *EVERY CHEMICAL* you will be coming into contact with.
> 
> http://www.google.com and http://www.wikipedia.org
> 
> Start with a google search for the chemical name followed by ' MSDS'. Next search wiki for the chemical name and study the information therein. This is very important for your own personal safety!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No amount of gold is worth losing your vision, skin, brain, or LIFE over!
> 
> Some of the chemicals used to process the gold change forms from solid to gas when heated or mixed with other substances. Some of the liquid by products produced are deadly and absorbed thru the skin. You need to know how to avoid these things BEFORE you get started.
> 
> The number one rule of Chemistry is: SAFETY FIRST!
> 
> If you can't find information on a substance PM me and I'll find it for you.
> 
> Steve


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## cleanbucket1

New guys or not, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT and should be taken very seriously by EVERYONE. Thanks for the post...


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## steyr223

Awesome stuff Steve
Must be nice to be thanked
since. 2007.
Thanks steyr223


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## Anonymous

Steve, you saved my life and I'm sure many others too by your precautionary WARNINGS. I'm not a chemist nor have I used/mixed chemicals like the ones for recovery/refining before. Although I have bought some chemicals for my recovery/refining process, I'm going to read all about them and the dangers they pose. 

Thanks so much for the information and the "Heads Up" warning.


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## tolwagen

lazersteve said:


> Buy a binder at WalMart along with some plastic sheet protectors.
> 
> Place all of your MSDS's in the sheet protectors and clip them into the binder.
> 
> Keep this binder handy in your work area for quick references in case of emergencies.
> 
> Steve


 LazerSteve

Is there a link anywhere to all the various chemicals, their rols, hazards etc? PULEEZE


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## jimdoc

tolwagen said:


> lazersteve said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buy a binder at WalMart along with some plastic sheet protectors.
> 
> Place all of your MSDS's in the sheet protectors and clip them into the binder.
> 
> Keep this binder handy in your work area for quick references in case of emergencies.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> LazerSteve
> 
> Is there a link anywhere to all the various chemicals, their rols, hazards etc? PULEEZE
Click to expand...


Check all the links in his signature line. Also check out the videos on his website, they will help you a lot.

Jim


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## woody1960

lazersteve said:


> Now that things are getting going in this forum it's time for everyone to get past the Chemistry basics.
> 
> First and foremost if you haven't done your homework on EVERY CHEMICAL you are dealing with, you are asking for a disaster. You should use Google and Wiki to look up *EVERY CHEMICAL* you will be coming into contact with.
> 
> http://www.google.com and http://www.wikipedia.org
> 
> Start with a google search for the chemical name followed by ' MSDS'. Next search wiki for the chemical name and study the information therein. This is very important for your own personal safety!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No amount of gold is worth losing your vision, skin, brain, or LIFE over!
> 
> Some of the chemicals used to process the gold change forms from solid to gas when heated or mixed with other substances. Some of the liquid by products produced are deadly and absorbed thru the skin. You need to know how to avoid these things BEFORE you get started.
> 
> The number one rule of Chemistry is: SAFETY FIRST!
> 
> If you can't find information on a substance PM me and I'll find it for you.
> 
> Steve


yes this is so true if you want to live be safe first plese


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## MrBurritoMan

My first post in this forum is right here and I want to start off by saying thanks to all of you who have compiled all of this extremely useful data in one place. I have been trying to start up my own process for years now and with all of the piecemeal information I haven't had much hope that I would make anything other than very expensive sludge or hurting myself.

Thanks again!


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## Yetos

So what I need?

1) glasses for my eyew

2 gloves for hands

3) a Mask for vapors/fumes

4) a plastic cover of body, 

is that enough to start?

or I need certain typew of Glasses,
special kind of mask
special plastic and gloves?

and shoes? helmet?

PS new to forum and recovery, 

until now I only use HCL to solve scrap, no more process.


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## jimdoc

Yetos said:


> So what I need?
> 
> 1) glasses for my eyew
> 
> 2 gloves for hands
> 
> 3) a Mask for vapors/fumes
> 
> 4) a plastic cover of body,
> 
> is that enough to start?
> 
> or I need certain typew of Glasses,
> special kind of mask
> special plastic and gloves?
> 
> and shoes? helmet?
> 
> PS new to forum and recovery,
> 
> until now I only use HCL to solve scrap, no more process.



Number one on your list should be study this forum, until you understand what you will be doing, before you do it, or make a possibly deadly mistake.

Jim


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## joekbit

Given that im a new guy and no one has posted here in over a year i thought i would add my comments.

SAFETY FIRST

There are more important things than precious metals. Do you like your green grass? Do you like fishing? Do you like life? Fresh air? My previous experience and background required me to carry a federal hazmat certification for many years. Some things got ridiculous but most were very valid. If you really want to know the hazards, learn from history. Try a search for "Love Canal" or maybe the Mississippi river on fire. So many examples, so much history.

My hope is to move deeper into this. I already have my designs in my head that I plan on using for my own safety, the safety of my neighbors and the environment. Chlorine and nitric fumes for example, can kill you. Waste liquids can contain high concentrations of many different metals. Contact with your skin can result in absorption into your body, and cause serious long term affects as well as immediate problems.

Never assume the PPE you are wearing will protect you. Read the MSDS related to each of the chemicals you use. Ensure you have the proper protection for each process based on the chemicals used in that process. Example: A activated carbon filter on a respirator (mask) will protect you from chlorine base fumes but not Nitrites.


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## kSharp

Incredible.... Literately just found out about this, anything helpful in a pm would be valued tremendously as there is a lot to read. 
Hello and thank you.
James.


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## FormidableRogue

Safety is priority, when I was younger I had a hatred for all things with 8 legs.... So I took it upon myself to rid the world of the blight. While innocently enough trying to conjure up the perfect Spider Control Serum™ I ended up with a not so mild form of Mustard Gas.... (Bleach+Ammonia=extreme unpleasantness)as I sat on my a$$ clutching my eyes and wondering why my chest wouldn't expand, I vowed to be more diligent when educating myself before I wadded headlong into areas that professionals spend years researching. Thought I'd share a close call, maybe there's a fellow yellow hunter that shares my disposition of spiders....if your out there buddy, for god sakes read first man. For all that's good and decent, read first!


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## refiningviman

FormidableRogue said:


> Safety is priority, when I was younger I had a hatred for all things with 8 legs.... So I took it upon myself to rid the world of the blight. While innocently enough trying to conjure up the perfect Spider Control Serum™ I ended up with a not so mild form of Mustard Gas.... (Bleach+Ammonia=extreme unpleasantness)as I sat on my asclutching my eyes and wondering why my chest wouldn't expand, I vowed to be more diligent when educating myself before I wadded headlong into areas that professionals spend years researching. Thought I'd share a close call, maybe there's a fellow yellow hunter that shares my disposition of spiders....if your out there buddy, for god sakes read first man. For all that's good and decent, read first!


 thank god you're ok. That mixture is so dangerous, and possibly explosive. Hydrazine and chloramines are no joke. They can kill you very rapidly from the get go or give you cancer and then kill you. 

I've worked with all sorts of weird materials as an amateur chemist. And some of my ideas were rather stupid but others were downright regrettable and probably illegal looking back. One very close call involves material that I did an organic leach with a mix of acetone, Methyl Ethyl Ketone, and turpentine. The leach did remove a lot of polymer crap from my precious metal ore. However when the material dried out after decanting the majority of the liquid (or so I thought) I added a mixture of straight pool acid and 60% peroxide used as a septic tank cleaner. 

Unfortunately for me and probably the small town I used to live in, the solvents did adsorb to the material and make a highly explosive oil of organic peroxides. I closed the bucket so I can move it which in hindsight was a huge mistake. I picked it up and it bumped into the fence, rather normal, but what should have been routine dings to the bucket became an enormous explosion. Like, beyond sticks of dynamite. within inches of me. If the lid didn't give way, I'm absolutely certain I and a good 50 meter radius area would have been leveled into a pink stain mixed with wood pulp and glass dust.

It's a rather poetic way of saying that there would've been casualties and extensive property damage, I'd even go as far to say that it would've been a state or federal class disaster :shock: 

Another stupid idea was open incineration of circuit boards and everything else including batteries and capacitors in my backyard fireplace. I honestly shouldn't need to explain why this is a stupid idea.

The 3rd most stupid mistake, worst to basic nuisance, is probably the paint can bomb. I tried incinerating stuff in a paint can but on a basic charcoal grill without extra air flow. The reason why it exploded might be due to the reaction conditions. Low temperatures makes the ethylene oxide formation more favorable along with other things like crown ethers. Probably the absolute worst contributing factor of the failure was mixing it with potassium nitrate then lighting off the gas which turned out to be a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen along with other explosives. It pretty much annihilated the paint can. Would've severed some arteries without my safety equipment. 

another thing I screwed up with was most likely safety measures. At the time I didn't realize that the salts of metals like copper can go through skin even though I knew other salts can go through skin. So I was covered with the salts aerosol almost constantly thankfully I didn't get too much and although I was rather sick on several occasions with zinc and copper poisoning, nothing really bad happened because I wasn't working with nitric acid which would dissolve lead and due to my impure reagents had a bunch of sulfate ions floating around which dropped the worst of the metals out of solution, though still my lead levels were at about 7ug/dl and probably could've been as high as 10 at one point or another even though I showed no symptoms of lead poisoning until I contracted pneumonia. However considering the length of time I worked on it, I probably have several horseshoes up my behind to still be alive. Also I was sick so more lead than usual would be floating around in my blood and my lack of access to proper lab equipment as an amateur so that didn't help me at all. It's also illegal where I live to do amateur chemistry so I had to be on the down low so I don't get myself arrested or most likely killed.

Another note I should make is that the main reason I did the project in the first place was for mental health reasons as at the time I was probably not that stable at the time because I was undiagnosed and thus not treated. I turned out years later to be suffering from bipolar disorder which honestly is not that surprising. 

So in conclusion, don't go into unknown territory without having a clear head no matter how much you know. Also, although it's true that I had no idea that I was bipolar, I did have some rather severe bouts of depression and was even hospitalized at a few points in time for nervous breakdowns. Thankfully that is years behind though that lab will probably forever haunt me despite how well it worked out in the end. Though I've since relocated to a different county so the people who really want my head on a stick, on an alias for a reason. my online mentor from Romania was named Viman so that's why I named my profile refiningviman as a sort of commemoration. 

Also I know these things may seem like easily avoidable mistakes, However many people who are just starting may and have fallen into these sorts of traps and they unfortunately aren't so lucky


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## jhop1994

It’s always a good start when safety comes first. Appreciate the warm up advice.


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