# Silver ore?



## sterbert (May 24, 2011)

Hello Everyone!

I am so glad I have found this forum! I have been trying without much success to make an educated decision on what do with some ore that I believe is silver.
It is located on a private ranch owned by my father. For years I have enjoyed exploring, rock hounding, and spending time outdoors there with my younger brother, and we have spent many hours becoming familiar with the property. Due to the proximity to the old spanish trail, it did not surprise us much to come upon signs of earlier passing,(rock symbols,old camps etc). So, out of curiosity I decided to do some research on some of the symbols we found, and eventually was able to decipher some of them over time. It appeared that there were indicators of mining activity in that area, and after more exploration we found what we believe is a silver ore quarry, by following an very old marked trail.
Near this sight there was one simple sign left close by, a sign for silver amalgam. Needless to say my brother and I were thrilled about this and obtained some black, heavy crumbly rock ( maybe silver sulfide?) that was layered upon a protrusion of sandstone. Dispersed randomly among this formation of black ore was small pockets of a whitish silver quartz material, of which we gathered a few pieces as well. 

I was wondering if anyone had some advise on the next steps to take with the material? I know assaying seems the logical choice but I am unsure If we even have anything at all. Could someone please leave some input? I have some pictures if that would help, and I will post them here if someone can identify the material enough by sight to proceed with the assay.

With much thanks,

Sterbert


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## darshevo (May 24, 2011)

Be sure to post pictures of your find for sure. We have a resident expert on geology/mineralogy - Rick the Rock Man. He has helped me on many occasions identify ore type and quality that I have found on rock hounding / prospecting trips

Welcome to the forum as well 

Lance


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## Reno Chris (May 24, 2011)

Have it assayed, then you will know if it has any significant silver or gold. 

There are many types of black colored rock, crumbly or not which contain no silver, but some do. Get it tested by a reliable, competent assayer, then you will know what you have. It also makes a big difference the quantity of material you have - a few pounds - a few tons - half a mountain or ? 

Hard rock mining can be very expensive. 

Chris


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## Drewbie (May 25, 2011)

Yeah, you could have it assayed, but where's the fun in that?

Post some close up photos of some of the rocks using a camera with macro feature, so we can live the dream!


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## Reno Chris (May 25, 2011)

For sure I have no desire to squash anyone's dream, but it can be real hard to tell by photo a black crumbly and sooty deposit of Manganese dioxide from a black crumbly and sooty deposit of silver sulfide (acanthite).

By fire assay, telling the difference is real easy.

Chris


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## Harold_V (May 25, 2011)

Drewbie said:


> Yeah, you could have it assayed, but where's the fun in that?


That's a lot like "hold my beer, and watch this."

Assaying, like testing with stannous chloride----is the way one makes (reliable) determinations. Especially for a novice, assuming what one has and going forward with a plan is not the wisest thing that can be done. 

Harold


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## sterbert (May 25, 2011)

Thanks for the input everyone. I am a amateur when it comes to this subject. I will take some detailed pictures of the ore to display here. 
This would be something I might pursue only on a recreational basis. In my estimation there is 50+ tons visible, with many similar formations nearby.
Is mining silver sulfide ( if in fact that is what I have ) feasible? I am definitely going to do more reading on the forum. 

@ Harold : You mentioned a stannous chloride test. Is that something I can do myself? If so is there some reference material, or procedure I can study?

Thanks

Sterling


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## jimdoc (May 25, 2011)

Look for the link to Hoke's book here on the forum.
That will get you started in the right direction.

Jim
There is a link in Patnor1011's profile;
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3494


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## patnor1011 (May 25, 2011)

signature line


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## Harold_V (May 25, 2011)

sterbert said:


> @ Harold : You mentioned a stannous chloride test. Is that something I can do myself?


Yes, you can do stannous chloride tests yourself---and you should, but it's is not used for testing silver. Stannous chloride is used to detect precious metals in solution, each of which displays a unique response to the stannous when they are present. I was simply trying to point out that there are acceptable procedures for testing, and they should be followed. In your case, a fire assay would be almost mandatory, to prevent you from spending endless time pursuing something that may not be present. That was my point. 



> If so is there some reference material, or procedure I can study?


Indeed there is----and we make no secret of the information. You may have taken note that I tell almost everyone they should be reading Hoke. That's precisely what you should do, and withhold experimenting with refining and asking questions until you have a basic understanding of that which she teaches. Once you do have, many of the questions you have will have long since been answered, plus the responses you receive when they are not will make sense to you. It is very difficult for the novice to understand these procedures, in spite of them being very elementary. Hoke's book is the perfect introduction because it is written in terms that those without a chemical background will understand. She emphasizes testing, and provides excellent instruction in doing so, and in making test solutions. 

Harold


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## Richard36 (May 26, 2011)

sterbert said:


> I was wondering if anyone had some advise on the next steps to take with the material? I know assaying seems the logical choice but I am unsure If we even have anything at all. Could someone please leave some input? I have some pictures if that would help, and I will post them here if someone can identify the material enough by sight to proceed with the assay.
> 
> With much thanks,
> 
> Sterbert



Hello Sterbert,
Welcome to the forum.

If you post some photo's, 
I'll do my best to tell you what I know based on what I can see.

If it's manganese ore, it will dissolve in Hydrochloric acid, producing Chlorine gas, 
and will produce Oxygen gas when placed in Hydrogen Peroxide. 

If it's the dark black oxidized version of Acanthite, a Silver Sulfide,
Dissolve a couple Oz of it in 75 ml of Nitric Acid, filter the solution, 
and add a little HCL or a saturated solution of salt water to the filtered Nitric. 

If Silver is present, you should see a white precipitate of Silver Chloride form within the solution.
(The same result as you will get by testing with Stanous Chloride.)

I forgot the exact testing details without consulting my notes, but a Sodium Sulfite solution is more sensitive for detecting Silver within Nitric Acid solutions by producing a black ring on the the surface of the solution being tested.
The thicker and darker the ring, the greater the amount Silver the Solution contains.

(I need to go "Re-Read" my notes to be sure on all that, which, I will do, and post.)

I'd like to look at some photo's of the Silvery Sulfides and the surrounding Rock-Types, as well as the Black Material.

A photo of the Black Material "In-Place" where you found it, 
so that I could see it's relation to the surrounding rock would be helpful, 
as would good, clear, close-up shots of everything photographed.

An "In Place" photo of the Silvery Sulfides would be helpful as well.


I hope the above tests help you out, 
and I look forward to checking out the photos you post of what you found.

Sincerely, Rick. "The Rock Man".


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## Reno Chris (May 26, 2011)

> *This would be something I might pursue only on a recreational basis. Is that something I can do myself? If so is there some reference material, or procedure I can study?*



Studying and learning about silver and silver ores is great, but seriously, there can be a lot of issues with hard rock mining. 

What is the status of the land?
Do you own it? does someone else own it? Is it federal land like a national forrest? What state is your deposit located in?

Even processing small lots in 5 gallon buckets could be very expensive. Your nitric acid waste could contain a whole lot more in the way of heavy metals than just silver. Digging it out can also be very expensive, especially if you need to blast. 

A stannous test is a qualitative test - will tell you if a certain metal is present or not. It will not tell you how much is present - for that you need a quantitative test - like a fire assay. That should cost you about $50 or so. The problem with a qualitative test like adding chloride to a solution to precipitate white AgCl or using sodium sulfide (not sulfite) solution to drop black silver sulfide is that if you have moderate amounts of silver, amounts not hardly worth your time, it will only tell you that yes, silver is present. It wont tell you if 1 - lots of silver is present, or 2 if only a moderate amount of silver is present. A fire assay tells you exactly the number of ounces present in each ton of rock - so you know if you have a little, medium or large amount.

Chris


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## sterbert (May 26, 2011)

Gentlemen, 

I apologize for the rudimentary understanding I have concerning all of this. I am abjectly seeking reassurance I suppose. It certainly is not my intention to 
saturate everyone with inept questions, that have probably been repeated and answered numerous times here on this site. I am going to begin to enthusiastically consume Hoke's book this weekend, and devote some more time familiarizing myself with this forum. Then I am planning to attempt to get some help at identifying the material from a friend who is a chemistry teacher. If all proceeds well, then I will have the material sent for an assay. 
I plan on returning to the property this weekend to take more detailed pictures, as requested by Rick( Thank you for the advise!). THEN, I hope to be able to participate in a somewhat more competent discussion, and potentially positive contribution to this forum. 
I personally want to thank everyone for their welcoming nature, and all the helpful responses in regards to this topic. Please forgive me my enthusiasm and eagerness. This is a personal adventure of sorts. My family has a strong history of prospecting and mining for several generations, concluding with my grandfather, who sadly passed away several years ago. My excitement has even surprised my father, who with a wink muttered something about it " being in your darn blood".  

@ Chris, the property is owned by my father in Utah. He has water and mineral rights as well. I have his permission to proceed as I see fit. The material is quite easy to remove as it is on the surface in what appears to be in glacial type deposits atop a sandstone base. This will be a small recreational endeavor if anything at the most.

Much Regards,

Sterbert


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## Harold_V (May 27, 2011)

sterbert said:


> the property is owned by my father in Utah.


I was born and raised in Utah---a state rich in mineralization and with a strong history of mining and smelting. 28 smelters were known to exist in Utah at one point in time, including the still operational Kennecott Copper Corporation in the Oquirrh mountain range. I trust you live near?

I lived in the Salt Lake Valley for 56 years, leaving Utah in '96. Care to disclose (loosely) where you live? It need not include a city---just a general location (I'm curious).

Harold


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## Reno Chris (May 27, 2011)

> *in what appears to be in glacial type deposits atop a sandstone base.*



I hate to say this but assuming your geological description is correct, I'm going to guess its manganese not silver. That geologic description just screams manganese to me - I've seen ones like it in the field. Silver salts are far less soluble than those of manganese. Manganese is present in many rocks including sedimentary rocks. Manganese salts can be dissolved out of rocks through normal weathering processes, and once dissolved, like any water solution it would seep downward to a bedrock foundation (like your sandstone base) as the waters dry they leave behind their salts and manganese will react with oxygen to produce MnO2 an insoluble black material.

Here is a very easy qualitative test you can do for manganese dioxide. Get a handful (no more than a couple ounces) of the black stuff we are talking about. Take it to your chemistry teachers school - he / she can do this as an after school demonstration for any kids that want to watch. Place the couple ounces of material in a large 1000 or 1500 ml beaker. Get a larger tray for overflow and place the beaker in the tray under an exhaust hood. Have your chemistry teacher friend mix up 200 ml of 1 to 1 diluted HCl acid. Slowly pour the diluted acid into the beaker. Because its highly likely that you will also have some calcite (Calcium carbonate) mixed into the mineral specimen, it may foam up strongly (hence the large beaker and overflow tray) as the calcite releases carbon dioxide. As the foaming dies down, add more acid. Eventually you will get all the acid into the beaker. Open up the hood enough to get a wiff of any gas coming off the rock - don't suck in lots of it - Chlorine gas is quite poisonous and a slight trace will be plenty enough for you to identify its presence. Your chemistry teacher friend will be able to recognize it if you cant. 

Chris


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