# Platinum?



## Anonymous (Mar 6, 2007)

Off topic a bit I know. Sorry. I am a newbie, and have been trying to educate myself. Platinum group metals (PGM), platinum, paladium, rhodium are found in significant amounts in automotive catalytic converters. Today's PGM prices in US dollars: 
PLATINUM $1194 
PALLADIUM $345 
RHODIUM $5975 
IRIDIUM $460 
RUTHENIUM $850 

Shor international sells a gold recovery system (Simplicity) for $545. It mentions Platinum, but it seems pretty steep for a 1 cubic foot plastic tub and some chemicals. 

PGM recovery from catalytic converters sounds exciting to me. Anyone investigated this? Any advice?

Have a nice day.


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## socorban (Mar 6, 2007)

That system is basically a leaching system and not wortht the money, you rbetter of buyng am op bucket and chemicals your self for much cheaper.

You need alot of monolyth to make it worth while, i have about 200 pounds of it that im to lazy to process , one day i will i guess.

The more miles on the car it comes from the less metals remain in the converter, over time the metals are expelled to a point.

to my knowledge you can use an aqua regia set up it think precipitating is slightly dfifferant, i havent really looked into it much yet i only got the converters cause they were all free from a friend who owns a scrap yard. 

Im pretty sure ishor gives a run down on how to process platinum, ya basically break up the monolyth and soak it and process it like you would harddrive platters or anything platinum plated.


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## lazersteve (Mar 6, 2007)

Khan,

I've got 15 or 20 lbs of the crushed honey comb material that I plan on processing one of these days. Each cat is made using between 2-4 grams of Pt per unit from what I've read. That's about all I can add.

Steve


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## socorban (Mar 6, 2007)

yes steve you are correct, typical converters have 2 to 4 grams depending on size from factory new, but time the car runs it loses some, a very minute bit at a time but loses noen the less.

I actually learned about platinum in converters from an environmental report i read which stated that loss factor and the environment. It was over a year ago, but if i remember correclty it was about half loss of metals between 80 and 100 k miles assuming it was not at an idle running excesivly.


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## Anonymous (Mar 6, 2007)

socorban said:


> That system is basically a leaching system and not wortht the money, you rbetter of buyng am op bucket and chemicals your self for much cheaper.
> 
> You need alot of monolyth to make it worth while, i have about 200 pounds of it that im to lazy to process , one day i will i guess.
> 
> ...



I'm very interested Socorban, you obviously must have given the issue thought. I'm guessing 200lbs should have 40-80 grams platinum maybe? Shouldn't that be worth about $1500-$3000USD today?

Also, I wouldn't know how to process harddrive platters or anything platinum plated like you mentioned, but would love to be pointed in the right direction.
Thank you.
Ghengis


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## Noxx (Mar 6, 2007)

Yes, I would like to have more informations too. Wich hard drive has platinum ? What is the amount of it ? How to refine them ? Wich model has platinum ?
Thanks


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## socorban (Mar 6, 2007)

Well platinum is still troy ounce measurements, although im not sure of each monolyths (the honey comb inside) yeild becuase they are used and like i said over time and usage you lose some, i do have many newer ones from totald cars as well so those should be decent. I just havnt got around to dealing with them im kinda on a gold obsession at the moment, i keep sayin a few more pounds and i'll process them, that was about 50 pounds ago, obviously the metal case is useless and bulky so i cut em off right away and scrap them and keep only the monolyth.

Its actually not hard getting the platinum out its jsut like refining boards but with monolyth instead. 

As far as the hard drives, or the platters i should say in them, Platinum was used lightley in them 5 years ago and back, once broken up the foil is about 10% for 5 years and older.

newer ones 5 years ago to now have about 35% in the foil. Platinum is used in them for ita superior magnetic properties as a base metal. usually they are silver and platinum, some copper as well. All you really need to do is bend up the platters untill the coating cracks up, pull as much off as you can, give the foil a nitric acid bath to get rid of the lower precious metal and then process the platinum with sub zero ( aqua regia) im pretty sure can do it.


I have a pile of those ive been hording as well, i guess i really should get on that stuff soon, i could be sitting a nice chunk of change.

Im almost positive actually aqua regia can process platinum as well, i'll hafta recheck all my notes... hmm i think actually in ishors aqua regia guide it mentions platinum, i'll hafta check that too


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## jmelson (Mar 6, 2007)

Noxx said:


> Yes, I would like to have more informations too. Wich hard drive has platinum ? What is the amount of it ? How to refine them ? Wich model has platinum ?
> Thanks


I seriously doubt hard drive platters contain Platinum. The old ones were iron oxide, the newer ones are all plated media, usually a nickel alloy over aluminum. It has to have some magnetic properties, and I don't think Platinum has any ferromagnetic property.


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## lazersteve (Mar 6, 2007)

Hello,

I'm no authority on Platinum Refining but I do have more information.

1) You must use boiling AR to extract. There is one other way I have researched using none other than Hydrogen Peroxide. 

2) To drop the Pt from solution use Ammonium Chloride (NH4CL). 

3) The melting temperature is higher. Pt melts at 1768.3 °C 

4) Hard Drive platters DO have Pt in them, I'm not sure of the percentage, but I'm sure they do contain Pt. It's sputtered on them as a protective layer, not for any ferromagnetic properties ( Pt isn't magnetic ). Older drive platters with a yellowish tint are the useless iron oxide variety, the silvery colored ones are Pt sputtered.

The Pt pictured below is all I've managed to recover. It's fairly dirty on the surface and could use refining. It did not come from any of the above mentioned sources.

Steve


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## Noxx (Mar 6, 2007)

How many grams do you have ?
BTW, it is beautiful nuggets


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## lazersteve (Mar 6, 2007)

2.5 Grams.

P.S. I sent your Urea out today.


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## socorban (Mar 6, 2007)

JM, 
yes the platters do have platinum, the newer the better. Its not an exuberant amount but its there. I have a pile of newer ones and some i already broke up and gave a nitric bath and acid tested an sure enough there is platinum!

Not enough to justify paying alot for each but if you get em free keep em!


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## Noxx (Mar 6, 2007)

I will ask my local computer repair shop if they can keep them for me


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## PRECIOUS METALS (Mar 7, 2007)

hey steve if i break a cat converter in agua regia will it work


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## lazersteve (Mar 7, 2007)

PM,

It's more complicated than that. The AR must be boiling to dissolve Pt.
This is very dangerous.


Steve


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## dwt9999 (Mar 7, 2007)

From what I have read, the platinum can be recovered with AR when it is heated to a simmer for 30 min to 2 hr. However the rhodium needs to be processed at nearly 7000' I don't remember if that was F or C. So I would probably save the catalytics until you have enough to send to a Refrinery such as:
http://www.specialtymetalsrefiners.com/index.htm

The following link is to the catalytic page of their site:
http://www.specialtymetalsrefiners.com/catalytic_converters.htm

I just hope I can get my hands on enough to make the trip.

Lew


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## ThePierCer (Mar 10, 2007)

i have about 200-250 platters. They are all the metalic looking ones, not the gold finish. Does anyone have any idea how much platinum might be in them? Would it be worth it to process them now, or wait till I have many more?

From what i understand, it's just the foil on top. And I believe someone said just fold them and take the foil. Is this correct?


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## lazersteve (Mar 10, 2007)

Welcome,

Here is the forum link to the topic in question:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=83

Steve


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## platinumill (Apr 2, 2007)

The most simple way to recover the PGMs from catalytic converters is using the Platinumill. It is the safest and easiest. You recover around 85-90% of the PGM's and get paid for the waste.


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## austexjwlry (Jun 20, 2007)

Socorban

The way I process my platters is in at least 10lb lots no reason for this just seems enough to be worth trouble. I use a small 12" three in one shear to cut in half then into like 1/2" pieces. Aviation snips and large shears will work but are hard on hands. 

I divide into roughly three piles and put pieces into three 5 gallon buckets then slowly pour as much hydrochloric straight out of bottle as I can before the reaction runs me away from the bucket. Usually approximately one pint to start. It hisses, then sizzles, then makes a definite boiling sound. The reaction causes boiling solution in the bucket to rise quickly; don't add too much acid too fast or it will boil over. The fumes will violently rise almost like setting off a co2 fire extinguisher about 5 ft high. As reaction slows down add as much acid as you feel comfortable with but try not to let boiling rise past 1/2 full mark on bucket. It's so fumey people will still think you have a campfire going! The hydrochloric is straight out of the bottle from Home Depot 30% solution I guess.

After the first few additions of acid the reaction slows down a little. When you've added about 1/3 gallon or so you'll notice the whole batch turn into a somewhat liquid, almost solid greenish yellow salt. The reaction is so fast and hot I believe the water is being boiled out of solution. I call this an "aluminum salt" because the core of the platters seem to be made of aluminum but I'm not sure what it is. Don't add more acid at this point. It wouldn't hurt anything but isn't necessary. I use a spray bottle (409 etc...) adding a little water by spraying a little at a time which gets everything going again. More fuming & boiling; the more water you add the faster it works but again don't add too much or it will boil over! The heat of this reaction is impressive, I have even split the bottom of a couple buckets sitting on ground. It is best to put bucket into tupperware bin large enough to hold entire content of bucket. Keep adding water until acid is depleted.

At this point I use a "nylon" mesh kitchen strainer to catch large pieces from all three buckets. They will be approximately 1/2 dissolved and add them all to one bucket for further treatment. Repeat acid solutions until all is dissolved. At the last couple of additions you will notice yellowish tinge to solution; remember that platinum in solution can have a yellowish tint. I've just added this to stock pot ( 55 gallon drum) to deal with later, as I was still finishing up on foils. Two points to remember are that 30% baum hydrochloric isn't pure and that platinum/palladium alloyed to silver or aluminum may possibly be dissolved by hydrochloric. Also the water is boiling out of solution making acid stronger & stronger. Test your solutions before throwing out! Don't worry about first few additions as acid will attack base metal (aluminum) first.

I jockey back and forth from three buckets to keep them going but I should probably use just one at a time. If you ever put your head over bucket while boiling you'll never do it again, really bad hot acrid fumes.
Solutions may need to be diluted to filter with any speed. Filtering this much liquid with fluffy white aluminum precipitant looking stuff in it is a big chore; allow some time for it. I allow some settling to occur so smallest pieces of foil have a chance to settle before pouring off top fluids. If you wait too long white powder looking stuff will settle on top of fine pieces of foil forcing you to start over at removing finest foils. I probably take a little loss at this point because of impatience. Wash foil repeatedly. Dissolve foil in AR. I used to only boil down to remove nitric, will still do so to reduce volume of liquids but also will use urea to make sure nitric is killed. Precipitate with ammonium chloride.

To dissolve all ten lbs. in three buckets will take an 8 hr day with breaks and lunch etc. You will dissolve between 2 to 2 1/2 lbs of aluminum core for each gallon on hydrochloric depending on how efficiently you work and how patient you are at letting the acid be at least close to killed before straining.

This is just how I do it, figured it out playing around, does not make it the best way! My refining technique needs refining! Please be very careful!

Not counting yellow fluid I pour/filter off foils to deal with separately,losses in finest foil, etc., I'm not sure how much I'm not fully precipating but still test positive for platinum after most or all has come down that I patience for, I'd estimate realistically only about 5% recovery by weight of foils from the older platters more on newer platters. I'm not sure where my losses from stated 10% content is coming from. Other techniques may work much better.

I have very little patience! 

Wayne


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## Harold_V (Jun 20, 2007)

austexjwlry said:


> I have very little patience!
> Wayne



Chuckle!

That's not exactly a good quality when it comes to refining precious metals!  

What you just described is very much like refining an incinerated carpet for gold content. Lots of work----but can be very rewarding. I won't forget the day a customer showed up at my door with a can of filings, and a small carpet runner under his arm. The runner yielded almost six ounces of gold!

For the record, I did all of my work in a fume hood. I can't even begin to imagine working with HCL otherwise. 

Harold


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