# Is all that glitters GOLD? How to select plated filled scrap



## kadriver (Nov 20, 2010)

Can someone give me some guidance:

I have several pounds of costume jewelry and much of it is gold in color.

I have carefully sorted through and seperated those gold pieces that are marked filled, plated, or rolled gold.

There is much more gold colored jewelry that is not marked.

Here are my questions:

Can I use any and all gold colored jewelry for gold recovery?

Can I assume that any piece of jewelry is suitable for gold recovery simply because it is gold colored?

Or should I only select the pieces that are marked?

Thank you - kadriver


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## Anonymous (Nov 20, 2010)

While most gold "colored" jewelry contains no gold whatsoever,it is always best to doublecheck.A simple scratch test would let you know one way or another,and assure you did not throw away a $400 necklace because a previous owner broke the clasp and replaced it themselves.That being said,the opposite can be true about marked jewelry.Anyone can purchase a jewelers stamp from ebay and use it for their own disshonest acts.
The only way to know for a 100% fact is to process every piece,outside of that...testing should work just fine.


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## kadriver (Nov 20, 2010)

mic:

By scratch test do you mean scratch the piece on a gold testing stone?

If this is so, then I can always tell I've got a loser when the piece I am testing is hard as a rock and will only scratch little or no material onto the stone.

If these hard pieces can be considered not suitable for refining, then this would go a long way in helping me eliminate some of the scrap I have.

kadriver


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## jimdoc (Nov 20, 2010)

Use a file and really take a bite out of the surface.

Jim


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## lazersteve (Nov 20, 2010)

Set up a small sulfuric cell and give each piece a quick test dip in the cell, if the small section you test strips down to base metal and leaves a fine black powder floating in the electrolyte, it's plated gold. Most costume jewelry that is gold colored and has some kind of mark (Avon, Monet. etc) has some gold plating, but there are some items that are coated with some kind of glaze or enamel that makes them golden colored.

Of course, this is only good for scrap that you own. 

Steve


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## kadriver (Nov 21, 2010)

I will set up a test with sulfuric - Thanks


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## kadriver (Nov 22, 2010)

Lazersteve:

I have watched your video on a sufuric acid stripping cell - very informative.

I have a case full of gold plated flatware and some gold plated pins that I am ready to strip using a sulfuric acdi cell.

I have a suitable container with a lid for a cell, I also have a battery charger with amp readings.

I have alligator clips and acid.

What I need is the anode & cathode bars - I will order these items from your store along with anything else I will need.

What else will I need to get the cell operational?

Also, Once I have my plated items stripped, what is the process for recovering the gold that is left in the stripping cell acid?

attached are pics of the items I want to recover gold from in the cell.

Thanks for your input
kadriver


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## Anonymous (Nov 22, 2010)

If you intend on making a purchase from steve,then I suggest you add a video to you cart.He has several,but any time I purchased something I made sure I got one of the dvd's also.
On setting up your cell,make sure you have a rinse container and running water available nearby in case of a mishap.Make abundantly sure you do not accidently drip any water into your cell.
The entire process,including recovering the gold from your cell,is available on his website.


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## jimdoc (Nov 22, 2010)

Make sure your battery charger is a manual charger-not an automatic.

Jim


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## lazersteve (Nov 22, 2010)

You will need 95% or greater concentration sulfuric acid for the electrolyte.

Here's the cell clean up process:

Black Powder from the Cell

Steve


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## kadriver (Nov 22, 2010)

I ordered some lab grade concentrated sulfuric acid. I have ordered the anode and cathode. I have all the other items needed to make this cell.

I have plenty of running water. I did a small experiment with 25ml of liquid fire (conc sulfuric acid) in a 50ml beaker. I got on all my safety gear and remotely added a drop of water to the acid. It spattered pretty good.

I will take extreme care not to get any water in that cell while I am working around it. I can't wait to strip these pieces of flatware.

Thanks for all your help.

kadriver


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## kadriver (Nov 22, 2010)

My battery charger is manual - from the 1970s

kadriver


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 22, 2010)

kadriver said:


> I ordered some lab grade concentrated sulfuric acid. I have ordered the anode and cathode. I have all the other items needed to make this cell.
> 
> I have plenty of running water. I did a small experiment with 25ml of liquid fire (conc sulfuric acid) in a 50ml beaker. I got on all my safety gear and remotely added a drop of water to the acid. It spattered pretty good.
> 
> ...



Unless your acid or the water were hot it should not have had this reaction just from a drop of water. You are spending money you don't have to ordering lab grade.


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## Harold_V (Nov 23, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Unless your acid or the water were hot it should not have had this reaction just from a drop of water. You are spending money you don't have to ordering lab grade.


I agree that reagent, or lab grade is a waste of money, but I strongly disagree with the reaction not happening. That's exactly what it does---and the reason _one does NOT pour water to acid_, especially concentrated sulfuric. The reaction is violent and sure, turning the small amount of water to steam almost instantly. 

If you must dilute sulfuric, it should be poured VERY slowly to as large a body of water as is possible, and stirred constantly. Even then, you risk a steam reaction. 

I had no problems, ever, pouring water to nitric or HCl, but it's wise to get in the habit of never pouring water to acid, for it can be very unforgiving. 

Harold


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## kadriver (Nov 23, 2010)

From now on i will use roto drain cleaner.

Thanks for the info.

kadriver


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## kadriver (Nov 23, 2010)

I realized that I had all I needed to set up the sulfuric acid stripping cell.

Lazersteve was right on - those plated flatware pieces stripped quickly.

I cant say as much for the plated pins & wires. I stood in from of that cell for 6 hours dipping each pin one at a time. 

I know there has to be a better way than stripping each pin one at a time.

I finished all the flatware in about 2 hours. I got about 1/4 the way through the pins and I had to stop.

I thought about putting the pins between two stainless steel mesh, and clamping then together with stainless wire and doing the whole lot all at once.

Can somebody give me some insight on how to get these pins stripped fast.

Thanks.

kadriver


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## jimdoc (Nov 24, 2010)

You should use copper mesh,not stainless for the pins.


Jim


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## kadriver (Nov 24, 2010)

I will get some copper mesh to finish the pins.

What is the problem with using stailess steel?

Is there a certain way to configure the copper mesh with the pins inside?

Thanks - kadriver


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 24, 2010)

kadriver said:


> I will get some copper mesh to finish the pins.
> 
> What is the problem with using stailess steel?
> 
> ...



Go look at Steve's video again and pay close attention to how he has his basket made for stripping the pins.


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## kadriver (Nov 24, 2010)

got it - thanks
kadriver


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## kadriver (Nov 24, 2010)

Are there values in the rinse water?

How can I get the values out of the rinse water?

Filter and wash?

Thanks - kadriver


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 24, 2010)

kadriver said:


> Are there values in the rinse water?
> 
> How can I get the values out of the rinse water?
> 
> ...



There is possibly values in your wash water. After you finish your processing let everyhing settle to the bottom (24-48 hrs) and then siphon off the liquid and test the material on the bottom if ti is gold then process it.


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## Harold_V (Nov 24, 2010)

kadriver said:


> Are there values in the rinse water?
> 
> How can I get the values out of the rinse water?


Hoke discusses solutions, and how one sends them to the "stock pot". 

Stannous chloride is your friend. 

Solutions should **always** be tested for traces of values. If they are in solution, they are sent to the stock pot, where they are cemented. If they are not in solution, but found to be in suspension, you can generally allow the solution to sit idle for a day or so, at which time anything of value should be found sitting on the bottom. 

The exception to the above is when working with silver bearing solution. For example, if, after cementing, you find your solution still displays a slight amount of silver (determined by a drop of HCl in a small sample, yielding a white cloud), salt or HCl should be added to the solution, then it should be allowed to settle, at which time it can be separated from the resulting silver chloride and discarded appropriately. 

Harold


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## kadriver (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks Harold, I have completed about 18 hours of continuous stripping in that cell.

i have disassembled it and put it and the rinse water up for the next day or two.

In my photo there was a thick brown colored mass coming from the lead cathode. Can anyone tell me what the brown scum is?

After about 2 hours I checked the cell with a flashlight. I could not see through the liquid, but there is about 1/2 inch of dark mud all over the bottom of the cell.

My cell was wider, and not as deep as Lazersteves.

I stripped the whole case full of flatware, all the pins (I used a copper basket I fashioned out of 1" copper tube with a copper cap brazed to it). I also stripped about 10 pounds of scrap plated costume jewelry.

When I seen that 1/2 inch of mud, I got real excited about what the cell will yield in terms of gold metal - should I be excited, or is 1/2 inch going to give me 10 grams?

Also, I dissolved some gold plated silver jewelry this evening after I put the cell up for the night.

After the silver had dissolved I let the container coll outdoors. When I went to get it i was amazed to find these beautiful crystals in the bottom. Can someone tell me what they were?


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## Harold_V (Nov 25, 2010)

My money on the crystals is they're silver. Now we need the opinion of someone that knows chemistry, to explain to me why I'm wrong! :lol: 

Try this. Remove a trace of those crystals, dissolve in distilled water, and see if you can cement silver with copper. 

I expect the sludge you recovered is going to be very light in weight---not much in the way of values. Please do keep us posted, however, for I may be very wrong. 

Harold


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## Oz (Nov 25, 2010)

Maybe I missed something in his posts but that 2nd picture sure looks like silver nitrate to me. Did that come out of a sulfuric stripping cell? He did mention gold plated silver. 

I have cemented silver on copper from sulfuric before, but I have never tried concentrating it in solution to grow crystals in a sulfuric acid solution.


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## kadriver (Nov 25, 2010)

OZ - No, the crystals came from a completely different process. I dissolved some gold plated, silver jewelry in nitric acid AFTER I had completed using the stripping cell.

Sorry, I should have put that picture under a different post to avoid confussion.

When I wokw this morning those crystals were one of the first things to pop into my head - SILVER NITRATE CRYSTALs - must be. They sure were pretty.

I have already dissolved them in boiling water so I could remove the gold foils that were left after boiling in nitric acid.

Thank you all - kadriver


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## kadriver (Nov 26, 2010)

I recovered the gold from the cell.

The amount was very small just as Harold said it wouold be - but not too bad.

I have included a picture of the gold after i boiled it in Nitric acid.

the large container is from the cell, the small one is from the rinse water for the cell. I think I could have recovery more from the rinse water if i would have applied some patience.

Also, I used too much aqua regia to dissolve the gold. It took nearly 12 spoons of urea to neutralize the AR.

Then I was startled to see what appeared to be precipitation in the filter. I thought it was lead because I noticed it after I added the sulfuric acid before filtering.

When I added water to rinse the filter the precip dissolved. Then I realized that the AuCl was saturated with urea. I added more distilled water and it all dissolved - my inexperience, but I learned another lesson tonight.

I dropped the gold and will wash & rinse tomorrow.

I actually did four seperat processes for this batch:

1) gold plated silver jewelry
2) gold filled and rolled scrap (using lazersteves dvd)
3) inquarted karat gold scrap jewelry (with graphite stirring rod)
4) harvested the stripping cell.

Stirring the molten golld 7 silver with that graphite stirring rod was really a unique sensation.

I did each process individually, then combined then just before adding aqua regia. Unfortunately i did not get a good weight on the stripping cell gold before I tossed everything together.

The stripping cell looked at least like a couple of grams.

I may run the gold powder through a second refining to get it as pure as I can.

Thanks for looking.

kadriver


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## Harold_V (Nov 26, 2010)

Well done!

Congrats.

Harold


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## kadriver (Nov 27, 2010)

I started with the stripping cell and kept adding gold as I got it.

I added some more karat scrap jewelry today and added it to the other four processes already in progress. I got this bar for my efforts.

Thanks to this forum I have gained a little confidence in my refining.

Sorry I did not take the time to get the weight of the gold from the cell.

Thanks for looking

kadriver


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 27, 2010)

Congrat's, nice looking color there.


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## butcher (Nov 27, 2010)

UREEKA


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## kadriver (Nov 27, 2010)

Please notice that there is a little bit of frosting on the surface of the bar.

Is this normal, or are there impurities that are causing this?

Thanks - kadriver


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## Harold_V (Nov 28, 2010)

I noticed the slight frosting, and would attribute it to something that doesn't oxidize, and of very low percentage. I might suggest that it may be traces of silver chloride, although that's just speculation. Washing the gold with ammonium hydroxide can serve to limit, if not eliminate, any traces of silver. The color of your bar is very good as far as I'm concerned. 

You could have poured a smoother bar by heating the mold (more, if you already did) and playing a reducing flame on the surface of the ingot as it cooled slowly. that prevents the irregular surface you produced. You may have poured the gold on the cold side, too, considering it froze rapidly. All in all, you did very well. 

Harold


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