# Whats the thoughts from everyone on this ball mill?



## Sancho_n_Pedro (May 19, 2022)

So, I was looking to make my own ball mill, but while looking around for a suitable container came across this (mainly for the container, not the motor):

Vevor 3kg Rotary Tumbler

As its quite a cheap thing, I thought I'd probably give it a try, but before I did, I hoped there may be someone that could give their opinion on something like this?

Thanks (in advance)

Richard


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## kurtak (May 19, 2022)

Sancho_n_Pedro said:


> So, I was looking to make my own ball mill,



What are you wanting to mill - incinerated IC chips - ore - something else ???

How much material (1 kilo - 10 kilo - more) are you wanting to mill at a time ?

Kurt


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## Sancho_n_Pedro (May 19, 2022)

kurtak said:


> What are you wanting to mill - incinerated IC chips - ore - something else ???
> 
> How much material (1 kilo - 10 kilo - more) are you wanting to mill at a time ?
> 
> Kurt


Its for IC chips etc. Was unsure how it would work out so was going to do a small batch and see how that goes. I've got lots of other PCB parts to do too so these would also make there way through incineration and into the ball mill, but as I said, its a trial run initially and the container was the thing that looked more interesting.


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## Alondro (May 19, 2022)

I have to crush my chips by hand. I'm in a residential area, and a typical ball mill is WAYYYYY too loud. 

I'm going to be playing with heating them up and dumping them in cold water immediately to at least make them shatter. Since I do very small batches of only a pound at a time, it won't be enough to trigger a steam explosion. We used to do this as kids with glass bottles all the time to watch them pop into tiny bits. I'll be grinding the fragments between two iron plates: a small one with a hand-hold, and a large plate beneath.

Now, if there's a way to muffle a small ball mill in my garage.... that might be an option.


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## kurtak (May 19, 2022)

Sancho_n_Pedro said:


> Its for IC chips etc. Was unsure how it would work out so was going to do a small batch and see how that goes.


Before buying that tumbler we should talk more about this - out of time for posting more today

Kurt


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## kurtak (May 19, 2022)

Alondro said:


> Now, if there's a way to muffle a small ball mill in my garage.... that might be an option.


That is certainly something worthy of discussing - out of time to post more today

Kurt


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## speed (May 19, 2022)

I dont think its heavy duty enough for IC chips personally.


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## Jimbriese (May 19, 2022)

I bought a vibrating tumbler from harbor freight the big one is $179.00 US and added about fifty or so 3/4 inch balls out of old ball bearings have used it one time and it worked great for small scale on ic chips.


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## Ohiogoldfever (May 19, 2022)

Alondro said:


> I have to crush my chips by hand. I'm in a residential area, and a typical ball mill is WAYYYYY too loud.
> 
> I'm going to be playing with heating them up and dumping them in cold water immediately to at least make them shatter. Since I do very small batches of only a pound at a time, it won't be enough to trigger a steam explosion. We used to do this as kids with glass bottles all the time to watch them pop into tiny bits. I'll be grinding the fragments between two iron plates: a small one with a hand-hold, and a large plate beneath.
> 
> Now, if there's a way to muffle a small ball mill in my garage.... that might be an option.




Surely a plywood box with sound deadening foam would knock the sound down well within reasonable.


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## Lightspeed (May 19, 2022)

i do not think it will work, not large enough to use the size balls necessary (think weight) to have a grinding/impact/crush effect


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## Geo (May 19, 2022)

It's plastic. Find a good second hand cement mixer or buy a cheap one on line. I leave the mixing blades out of mine. It doesn't do too good at crushing but it's great for grinding and milling small stuff.


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## DaddyD (May 20, 2022)

Alondro said:


> I have to crush my chips by hand. I'm in a residential area, and a typical ball mill is WAYYYYY too loud.
> 
> I'm going to be playing with heating them up and dumping them in cold water immediately to at least make them shatter. Since I do very small batches of only a pound at a time, it won't be enough to trigger a steam explosion. We used to do this as kids with glass bottles all the time to watch them pop into tiny bits. I'll be grinding the fragments between two iron plates: a small one with a hand-hold, and a large plate beneath.
> 
> Now, if there's a way to muffle a small ball mill in my garage.... that might be an option.


I have seen this done in science class very cool could not do this at the house to many police cars going by I wish I could figure out the last one myself because I crush a lot of ore because you are right they are OMG loud


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## goldshark (May 20, 2022)

I think it is way too small for any production. I think I saw some dimension of 6" x 6". Filled 1/2 way to get any kind of attrition from ball bearings as grinding media. Not really enough weight to do any significant action. But you could always let it run for a couple of weeks. If you put it under your bed, a mattress makes a good sound attenuator. Hopefully you don't have downstairs neighbors.


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## GoIdman (May 20, 2022)

Sancho_n_Pedro said:


> Its for IC chips etc. Was unsure how it would work out so was going to do a small batch and see how that goes. I've got lots of other PCB parts to do too so these would also make there way through incineration and into the ball mill, but as I said, its a trial run initially and the container was the thing that looked more interesting.



I use a the following setup to first grind my incinerated chips then pulverize it more thoroughly.

1) old cast iron meat grinder
2) electric motor (220V)
3) old coffe grinder

I process the chips on the above order...it comes out a very fine powder, which i sieve and follow separation processes until i get the concentrate.

It is a very silent process (except the coffe grinder, but when i work vith that, the neighbours think i`m grinding coffe, so no problem there).

It works like a charm for me, just have to add the material, i re-grind bigger chunks, and re-incinerate if something excapes...alltogether is a very good mechanical machine.

For me the important thing is to work with acids as late in the process that i can (i just hate to work with acids, so i rather do things mechanically to concentrate my stuff)

Be safe

Pete


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## kurtak (May 20, 2022)

Geo said:


> It's plastic. Find a good second hand cement mixer or buy a cheap one on line. I leave the mixing blades out of mine. It doesn't do too good at crushing but it's great for grinding and milling small stuff.


Geo - with a cement mixer you can get three different milling "actions" - crushing - grinding - or combination of crushing/grinding --- it depends on angle of the cement mixer as well as amount of material being milled & your ball load

Don't have a lot of time right now but angle plays a big part in which action you get - the other two things have an effect on how effective the "angle actions" are in the milling

For crushing you want the balls to lift to the top of the drum so they crash down on the material being milled

so you need to set the angle of the cement mixer so it will lift the ball to the top of the drum 

As I say I don't have time to post details right now but here is a pic showing the ball lifting to the top of the drum & falling to get good "crushing" action - once crushing is done you can change the angle so the balls stay in the bottom of the drum for better grinding

Kurt


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## kurtak (May 20, 2022)

Cople more pics of balls "lifting' & before coming to full top & falling

Kurt


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## goldshark (May 21, 2022)

Ball mills are definitely a grind unit and not a crushing action. The friction is what causes the breaking of particles. This is the reason most commercial ball mills are larger in girth, than in length Much more friction in a deeper, higher PSI bed, than a shallow bed. Albeit, you may get a little crushing of the ore from dropping balls, it is not worth the additional energy spent, or the added noise. It is hard to vary the speed on an electric motor driven mixer, but a gas powered one, with a little tweaking of the gear drive or pulleys, may give the needed rotation speed to get the balls to drop, so to speak. As stated earlier, a coffee grinder, or small batch chain impact mill is fairly easy to build, and very much more efficient on the material you are processing, than a ball mill. Directions for a small chain mill can be found on various youtube videos.


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## jphayesjr (May 21, 2022)

Sancho_n_Pedro said:


> So, I was looking to make my own ball mill, but while looking around for a suitable container came across this (mainly for the container, not the motor):
> 
> Vevor 3kg Rotary Tumbler
> 
> ...


I've used rock tumblers and stainless tumbling shot in the past to pulverize lumps of ore. There are typically two problems to consider. 

First, it takes days and days. You say you'll be tumbling mostly PCBs, so you'll be tumbling plastic, fiberglass, some gold film and wire, tin/nickel/steel/lead/copper. You have to chop it finely enough to have a meaningful mass and surface area in relationship to your tumbling shot. Maybe some of the synthetic plastic shot will be hard enough to liberate what you want, while leaving the rest relatively intact. 

Second, you'll wind up with contamination from the base metals tumbling around. It should be an obstacle, just something to plan for unless the ferric metals and or tin get oxidized or sulphated. Then, you need plan B and C. The last time I tumbled ore I had to deal with this myself, it was successful.


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## PeterM (May 23, 2022)

I built a stand to hold my three rubber lined tumblers. the tumblers were made by Scott-Murray years ago and if your lucky to find one get it I used Model B Liner and lid gasket Stock # 1-0268 $58.90 also I used steel balls purchased from www.ballbaron.com I bought the not perfectly round ones, they are much cheaper then perfect ones used in Pin Ball machines 678-696-5302 ask for Dave, he'll hook you up with a good deal, I believe I used balls 1-1/16 diameter balls but that up to you and your requirement. If by chance you find and old tumbler case, the rubber liners can be found at Kingsley North, Inc. 1-800-338-9280
Good Luck
P


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## jphayesjr (May 24, 2022)

jphayesjr said:


> I've used rock tumblers and stainless tumbling shot in the past to pulverize lumps of ore. There are typically two problems to consider.
> 
> First, it takes days and days. You say you'll be tumbling mostly PCBs, so you'll be tumbling plastic, fiberglass, some gold film and wire, tin/nickel/steel/lead/copper. You have to chop it finely enough to have a meaningful mass and surface area in relationship to your tumbling shot. Maybe some of the synthetic plastic shot will be hard enough to liberate what you want, while leaving the rest relatively intact.
> 
> Second, you'll wind up with contamination from the base metals tumbling around. It should be an obstacle, just something to plan for unless the ferric metals and or tin get oxidized or sulphated. Then, you need plan B and C. The last time I tumbled ore I had to deal with this myself, it was successful.


I use balls, wheel lugs, and cobalt steel nuts in a cheap cement mixer these days, and scrub while wet with rare earth magnets, then remove non magnetic base metals. Then, air dry and smelt pulverized ore. For PCBs, a heavy duty yard waste chopper first, then milling, incineration, wash, magnet, melt with flux and recovery metal, then cupelation.


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## jphayesjr (May 25, 2022)

PeterM said:


> I built a stand to hold my three rubber lined tumblers. the tumblers were made by Scott-Murray years ago and if your lucky to find one get it I used Model B Liner and lid gasket Stock # 1-0268 $58.90 also I used steel balls purchased from www.ballbaron.com I bought the not perfectly round ones, they are much cheaper then perfect ones used in Pin Ball machines 678-696-5302 ask for Dave, he'll hook you up with a good deal, I believe I used balls 1-1/16 diameter balls but that up to you and your requirement. If by chance you find and old tumbler case, the rubber liners can be found at Kingsley North, Inc. 1-800-338-9280
> Good Luck
> P


My friends who are lapidary artists consider the Scott Murray line the gold standard of rock tumblers. Good choice for smallish batches.


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## jphayesjr (Jun 3, 2022)

Lortone bought the company and makes newer versions--in warranty-- of the desired models for lower prices that a lot of used equipment vendors are charging for old out of warranty Scott Murray machines. You might get lucky in Ebay and snag one at a bargain, but only if you have time.


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## RockiB (Jul 6, 2022)

Sancho_n_Pedro said:


> So, I was looking to make my own ball mill, but while looking around for a suitable container came across this (mainly for the container, not the motor):
> 
> Vevor 3kg Rotary Tumbler
> 
> ...


I own that for some art glass I hope to make, and it's really small. It's acrylic, not plastic. The way it closes is interesting, but an old pot with the lid clamped shut would be much more useful than this container imo


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## goldshark (Jul 7, 2022)

Junk yards are my go to place for salvaging used mechanical stuff. Out here in Colorado, there are still scrap steel yards that separate used ski lift towers, you can cut to whatever length you desire, speed reducers, drives you have to engineer for the size of mill via new resources such as Northern Hydraulics, Bailey Hydraulics, Surplus City ,whatever. Not too hard to resource components for a2'x 4'L ball mill for around $1,000, labor excluded, batch plant. That should make a ball mill for a considerable production.Some scrap yards don't allow browsing due to OSHA regulations. Find one that still allows browsing. A well constructed junk yard ball mill will allow you to grind enough whatever, to make you a wealthy person, if you grind the right stuff.Rock tumblers are BS compared to a no She_ ball mill . This is not some thing you would set up in a close residential area though. Go big, or go home.


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