# Campbells or Progresso soup can pyrolysis



## 924T (Aug 12, 2013)

It looks like I'm going to try the tin/soup cans pyrolysis first, before attempting something bigger.

Will any old pair of tin cans work (inverting one over the other), such as a Campbells or Progresso soup can,
or should I be eyeballing bigger game, such as spaghetti sauce or paint cans 

Also, I've noticed that the paint stores now sell new, empty paint cans that have a very shiny finish on the
exterior------is that shiny plating any type of hazardous fumes risk?

Also part deaux: instead of using a second, slightly larger can to invert and place over the top of the can
holding the chips to be pyrolized, would the thicker restaurant grade Aluminum foil, folded 4 or 5 times to
increase the thickness (formed into a shroud that would fit over the chips can) work just as well?

Cheers,

Mike


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## Harold_V (Aug 12, 2013)

Aluminum melts at a temperature that is way too low for either incineration or pyrolysis, so rule it out.

Plating on cans is generally tin----depends on the can, and its intended use. You must distinguish between tin, as a plating, and tin (misnomer), which is actually thin sheet steel. That's what most cans are made of (but tin plated). 

Do keep in mind, many cans have soldered seams. 

I'm not convinced you're on the right track. You'd be better served with a more robust container, but you may enjoy success as an experiment when using a common can. 

Harold


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## g_axelsson (Aug 12, 2013)

I used an old stainless steel thermos that I cut. It gave me two "cans" of different diameter and approximately the same length. The fact that the inner can was made out of one continuous piece of metal made it really easy to get the ash out afterwards.

Incineration in a soft steel can (aka tin can) will oxidize the can and shed iron oxide particles that gets mixed in with the ash. It will also eventually fail when the iron gets too thin.

Göran


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## bswartzwelder (Aug 12, 2013)

Now that many people are on board with using dual cans, I was thinking that empty propane tanks might work better. The top and bottom of ordinary 14.1 ounce and 16 ounce propane tanks are made of a single piece of steel then pressed together. The steel is much thicker than the steel used in soup or paint cans. To use them, you would have to MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THEY ARE EMPTY. This can be done in any number of ways. In the top, where the appliance screws in is a Schrader valve. It's a check valve which keeps the propane (under pressure) in the tank when the appliance in use is unscrewed. You can push a small metal (or better yet, plastic) rod down on the little metal tip which is down in the hole on the top of the cylinder. If you hear a hissing or feel a cool breeze coming from the cylinder, THERE'S STILL PRESSURE INSIDE. By placing the cylinder in a 5 gallon bucket filled with water, you can push down on the valve allowing any pressure to escape. Being under water will prevent any sparks which could ignite the propane. Remember that any propane which does escape could burn violently if a source of ignition is anywhere in the area. The tool which is used to remove the valve from your car tire valve stem can be used to unscrew the Schrader valve. Once the valve is out, fill the cylinder with water to make sure there is no remaining propane. At that point, a hack saw will easily cut the cylinder in half. The tall, thin cylinder is the 14 ounce one and the shorter cylinder which is larger in diameter is the 16 ounce cylinder. I have successfully cut a 20 pound propane tank from my grill in half using this method once its lifetime date stamp had expired.


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## 924T (Aug 12, 2013)

Harold_V, g_axelsson, and bswartzwelder,

Many thanks, guys!

I try to formulate as many of my questions as possible with an eye to new forum members and guests
being able to benefit from the responses and answers, as well as myself, and this thread, with your answers, 
is a perfect example of how the forum can assist someone that is headed in the right direction conceptually, but
doesn't have the application specifics either quite right or optimized, and may be unaware of some
(or all) of the relevant life-safety issues

Who would have thought that soup cans were soldered together? It makes me wonder what the composition
of that solder is, and whether any of it leaches into the soup? 

I had my suspicions about the durability of the Aluminum foil, and those have been confirmed, so that is not
a good 'quick and dirty' replacement for an inverted can.

The Thermos innovation is brilliant, and so is the Propane tank innovation. I don't have such a thermos, or I 
would jump on that approach. I do have both sizes of propane tanks on hand, so that's where I'll start heading.

bswartzwelder, your tutorial with all the safety precautions and tips for cutting a propane tank is invaluable;
it would never have occurred to me to empty the tank(s) under water.

Many thanks, gentlemen!

Cheers,

Mike


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## bswartzwelder (Aug 13, 2013)

Hey, if you don't want to wait for the propane tanks to be emptied, buy a 3 inch and a 4 inch pipe nipple (length to suit your desires). Put a cap on each nipple, put your chips in the smaller one and invert the larger one over it. They can actually be most any size where one will "telescope" into the other, the larger the diameter the better. If they are galvanized, they will probably produce some nasty gasses as the zinc burns off. We already know you will have to do this outdoors, so use a little forced ventilation and stand upwind of it.


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## everydayisalesson (Aug 13, 2013)

Hello all, if you want to use propane, I would first hook it up to a grill or lantern to burn off excess. Then do the little trick under water," I liked that idea." Propane is heavier than air and will flow to the lowest point and accumulate. Being in the midwest, a lot of people around here heat with propane. Every year you hear of an explosion which has occurred due to a leak and then concentration of the gas in a lower point. Most of the time this is a basement or crawl space. There are rules in place now so that installation is made away from the house and usually lower than the foundation if possible. I am not a gas guy, found this out from my neighbor who is a fireman and thought I would share. Safety first.


Mike


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## Rustjunkie (Aug 17, 2013)

Stainless steel pots and pans hold up to extreme heat better than anything I have seen and can easily be found in the trash or at thrift stores very cheap.


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## 924T (Aug 17, 2013)

bswartzwelder,

I am seriously focused on your propane cylinders schema, and am taking action in that direction. I scouted around
the house, and I have 4 of the 16 oz. Coleman cylinders, 1 late 1960's Bernzomatic 14.1 oz. that has never been
used (and was stored on its side), and there's 1 more 14.1 oz. with my torch on it that I haven't located yet. I'll probably buy 2-3 more 14.1 oz. cylinders at Menards later today.

Except for 1 tank, these all are full, so to use the gas up I'm going to try to duplicate Goldnscrap's firebrick furnace,
and incinerate some chips that way. I was all set to order in one of those Hybridburners side-arm-torches, but the money
got gobbled up by some household issue, so I'm hoping that a generic torch will achieve similar results. So, this will
allow me to test drive the propane approach to incinerating/pyrolizing IC chips as a learning/familiarization experience.

I did locate a Ryobi chop saw that will cut up to 4" diameter pipe, for $129, and I'm thinking it would guarantee me
perfectly straight cuts on the propane cylinders, once they're emptied, valve removed and filled with water.

Regarding your pipe nipple suggestion, I called all the hardware stores in my area, and the largest diameter pipe
they carry is 2"; I was referred to a pipe company, and the shortest length of 3" and 4" pipe they sell is 21feet long.
The prices were too steep for me: $7.44/10.59 per foot, $5.00/7.00 per cut, and $7.80/10.80 per threading, so it 
would have been over $20 apiece for a 1' section of 3" pipe, threaded, and I'd have to get 21 of them, and that's
not including the cap.

Cheers,

Mike


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## NoIdea (Aug 17, 2013)

Morning All, me thinkith i have posted these pictures somewhere butt for the sake of this post, here they are again.

The exit pipe is fed directly into the burner.



View attachment 1


Cheers Deano


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## 924T (Aug 18, 2013)

Deano,

Thanks for putting these pictures on a second tour of duty!

I'd been trying to locate them, because I wanted to take another look at your pipe arrangement
that feeds the gasses into the flame.

What is the inner diameter of the pipe you used?

Also, can you run a Kg of chips in this at a time? If not, how many grams of chips do you normally
run in a load?

Lastly, is that Koawool around your feed hatch?

Cheers,

Mike


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## 924T (Aug 19, 2013)

noidea,

I didn't have my glasses on last night, and I thought the white stuff around your pyrolizer access hatch
was Kaowool-----------

Well, with my glasses on tonight, I can see that it's not Koawool, but maybe some type of braided material 
that looks like the heat seal used for kitchen oven doors?

I'm interested in finding out what you used there.

Cheers,

Mike


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## NoIdea (Aug 19, 2013)

924T said:


> noidea,
> 
> Well, with my glasses on tonight, I can see that it's not Koawool, but maybe some type of braided material
> that looks like the heat seal used for kitchen oven doors?
> ...



Hey Mike, the seal is that found in the doors of wood burners to seal the glass window and the metal frame it sits in, i think it's a type high temperature glass rope.

The pipe is 10mm ID, dont go any smaller as you run the risk of carbon build up and blockage, and kg lots should be fine.

Hope dat helps

Deano


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## ilikesilver (Aug 19, 2013)

that rope you can buy at any wood stove or pellet stove store. I just replaced mine after 8 years on my pellet stove. winter is coming!! sorry


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## bswartzwelder (Aug 20, 2013)

Hi Deano,

Haven't seen many posts from you lately. Hope all is well in NZ. When you mentioned 10 mm and the I.D. on that pipe, it just seemed small to me as that converts to about 3/8 inch. I thought it would need to be much larger, but since the gasses cannot go anywhere else except through the pipe, the smaller diameter does sound like it would work. Also, since the gasses will flow through that pipe at a speed determined by the pressure in the pyrolyzer chamber, as the pressure would try to increase, the gasses would just flow faster. Seeing your pictures (again) had me wondering about your design, so I started looking through the your old posts. You started a thread on December 10 or 11, 2012 and included more pictures, drawings, and videos. It was really interesting to see the whole unit, but for some reason, I can hear the audio on both the videos, but the video portion doesn't come through. It's kind of "whited" out. 

Mike,

The propane cylinders wasn't really so much of my idea as it was just a revision of someone else's idea. I truly liked it, and wish I would have thought of it before I spent hundreds on the pyrolyzer I am in the process of building. I had everything here. The old propane cylinders and a brand new el cheapo charcoal grill all assembled, but still needs the screws tightened down.

Note: edited to add additional dates for Deanos pyrolysis unit.


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