# Aqua regia with concentrated peroxide.



## zzz (Sep 30, 2012)

HCl 30-33% + H2O2 >=30% 

ratio of HCL and H2O2 in solution: 1/1


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## cnbarr (Sep 30, 2012)

I appreciate your effort to get attention of your post by changing the title several times, but the process your describing, (and don't take this the wrong way, I mean no offense), is just a variation of the AP process. It is described here on the forum in many threads with many variations of it's use. If I remember correctly, it was one of our forum members (maybe lazersteve?) who invented or first employed the use of AP in the refining process. (If I'm wrong someone please correct me) 

Again please don't take offense, it is just that Hcl/H2o2 is not a new process here on the forum.


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## zzz (Sep 30, 2012)

cnbarr said:


> I appreciate your effort to get attention of your post by changing the title several times, but the process your describing, (and don't take this the wrong way, I mean no offense), is just a variation of the AP process. It is described here on the forum in many threads with many variations of it's use. If I remember correctly, it was one of our forum members (maybe lazersteve?) who invented or first employed the use of AP in the refining process. (If I'm wrong someone please correct me)
> 
> Again please don't take offense, it is just that Hcl/H2o2 is not a new process here on the forum.



I apologize because I did not know that someone had already published.


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## philddreamer (Sep 30, 2012)

Hi LM!


> I apologize because I did not know that someone had already published.


That's why one of the first thing we recommend to all new members is, to use the search engine on the upper right hand corner, before asking questions or making comments. Just about all questions about recovering and refining precious metals have been covered in this great Forum.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12914&p=152321&hilit=ap+process#p129150

Welcome to GRF!
Phil


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## Geo (Sep 30, 2012)

theres not a lot of information about precious metal recovery and refining that hasnt been discussed on the forum before. with that being said though, anytime you feel you have some information that will be helpful, please post it on the open forum because you never know what may be useful and what may not be useful.


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## zzz (Sep 30, 2012)

philddreamer said:


> Hi LM!
> 
> 
> > I apologize because I did not know that someone had already published.
> ...


I've tried to search something before post, but forum is too large and i'm losting in searching...
thanks for all


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## zzz (Sep 30, 2012)

Geo said:


> theres not a lot of information about precious metal recovery and refining that hasnt been discussed on the forum before. with that being said though, anytime you feel you have some information that will be helpful, please post it on the open forum because you never know what may be useful and what may not be useful.



Of course, thanks.


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## philddreamer (Sep 30, 2012)

LM, if you can share with us how much expirience you have with recovering & refining PM's and also what type of material you process, that gives us an idea of how to help you; or discuss the methods you prefer to use and compare notes. 8) 

Phil


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## cnbarr (Sep 30, 2012)

zzz said:


> I apologize because I did not know that someone had already published.



No need to apologize, I actually just realized that you just joined the forum, so welcome to the forum. Sometimes I have a hard time conveying my thoughts into written word, and it doesn't sound as fluid as many of the more articulated members here.

Geo and phildreamer make very good points and are very knowledgeable as well, absorb as much as you can.

Welcome again,
Chris


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## goldsilverpro (Sep 30, 2012)

cnbarr,

I would consider what zzz mentioned as being a different process than what we call the AP process. As it's normally used by the forum, the AP process is used with HCl (2 parts) plus some very weak 3% H2O2 (1 part) to dissolve the base metals but not the gold. What zzz suggests is to dissolve the gold with equal amounts of HCl and strong 30% H2O2, plus heat, as an alternative to aqua regia. Everyone knows that, with what we call the AP process, if too much H2O2 is used, the gold will dissolve along with the base metals. Also, most dissolve the gold foils resulting from AP with HCl/bleach or AR. Using enough H2O2 to purposely dissolve the gold is rarely discussed. I think Lou uses this process for some of the PMs. 

Welcome to the forum, zzz.


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## zzz (Sep 30, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> cnbarr,
> 
> I would consider what zzz mentioned as being a different process than what we call the AP process. As it's normally used by the forum, the AP process is used with HCl (2 parts) plus some very weak 3% H2O2 (1 part) to dissolve the base metals but not the gold. What zzz suggests is to dissolve the gold with equal amounts of HCl and strong 30% H2O2, plus heat, as an alternative to aqua regia. Everyone knows that, with what we call the AP process, if too much H2O2 is used, the gold will dissolve along with the base metals. Also, most dissolve the gold foils resulting from AP with HCl/bleach or AR. Using enough H2O2 to purposely dissolve the gold is rarely discussed. I think Lou uses this process for some of the PMs.
> 
> Welcome to the forum, zzz.



Yes, it is just that...Anyway, you can also remove base metals with HCl, than, if you are sure that silver is not present, you can
also dissolve copper with concentrated ammonia, making tetramminic copper (deep blu color), if you not want to dissolve gold. 
This is useful for plated pin for example or other gold that not contain silver, otherwise you can keep silver with gold, melt, and sell as alloy.

Thanks for welcome.


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## grance (Sep 30, 2012)

I only use H2o2 3% and 30% no nitric. the shiping cost of nitric is to much and ther are no loacal supplyers except for granger and there prices are just obsured was gonna try the hcl/bleach but the h2o2 works for me and if it aint broke dont fix it


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## cnbarr (Sep 30, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> cnbarr,
> 
> I would consider what zzz mentioned as being a different process than what we call the AP process. As it's normally used by the forum, the AP process is used with HCl (2 parts) plus some very weak 3% H2O2 (1 part) to dissolve the base metals but not the gold. What zzz suggests is to dissolve the gold with equal amounts of HCl and strong 30% H2O2, plus heat, as an alternative to aqua regia. Everyone knows that, with what we call the AP process, if too much H2O2 is used, the gold will dissolve along with the base metals. Also, most dissolve the gold foils resulting from AP with HCl/bleach or AR. Using enough H2O2 to purposely dissolve the gold is rarely discussed. I think Lou uses this process for some of the PMs.
> 
> Welcome to the forum, zzz.



GSP,

I stand corrected, you are absolutely right, I always put that process to the back of my head, since with AP it should be avoided. 

Thanks for correcting me on that, GSP. and to zzz my apologies.

Chris


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## goldenchild (Sep 30, 2012)

zzz,

How do you keep the H202 from rapidly exhausting? I tried using ethylene glycol before but found that the reaction is still too vigorous.


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## butcher (Sep 30, 2012)

You are generating chlorine in solution, oxidizing a portion of the HCl acid to chlorine gas which is what dissolves the gold or platinum group metals, cold temperatures or diluting with water will help to keep chlorine in solution and then mild heating of the solution then generates more chlorine gas and concentrates the solution, small additions added down into the bottom of the solution also helps (a pipette and small piece of hose), as if you pour it from the jug into the acid much of the H2O2, will form a large amount of chlorine as soon as it hits the acid, and vapor off before it has a chance to mix into solution (or similar with bleach if you’re using this oxidizer, instead of concentrated peroxide to generate chlorine gas in solution with the HCl acid), sometime when I use the HCL/ NaClO (bleach) or the H2O2 as an oxidizer I will add the oxidizer to the powders first, and then add small additions of acid (kind of backwards than we normally use them (as the chlorine generated subsides and the reaction ceases then I will add more acid, this is usually done with mild heating and sometimes dilution to keep the gases in solution a bit longer, or can be done with cold solutions to keep gas in solution and just giving more time for the reaction to complete the work.


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## zzz (Oct 1, 2012)

cnbarr said:


> goldsilverpro said:
> 
> 
> > cnbarr,
> ...



No problem, thanks.


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## zzz (Oct 1, 2012)

goldenchild said:


> zzz,
> 
> How do you keep the H202 from rapidly exhausting? I tried using ethylene glycol before but found that the reaction is still too vigorous.



I add 1/1 ratio concentrated hcl/h2o2..i not do anything to keep h202 cause the gold dissolving is so rapidly that it deems necessary.


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## zzz (Oct 1, 2012)

butcher said:


> You are generating chlorine in solution, oxidizing a portion of the HCl acid to chlorine gas which is what dissolves the gold or platinum group metals, cold temperatures or diluting with water will help to keep chlorine in solution and then mild heating of the solution then generates more chlorine gas and concentrates the solution, small additions added down into the bottom of the solution also helps (a pipette and small piece of hose), as if you pour it from the jug into the acid much of the H2O2, will form a large amount of chlorine as soon as it hits the acid, and vapor off before it has a chance to mix into solution (or similar with bleach if you’re using this oxidizer, instead of concentrated peroxide to generate chlorine gas in solution with the HCl acid), sometime when I use the HCL/ NaClO (bleach) or the H2O2 as an oxidizer I will add the oxidizer to the powders first, and then add small additions of acid (kind of backwards than we normally use them (as the chlorine generated subsides and the reaction ceases then I will add more acid, this is usually done with mild heating and sometimes dilution to keep the gases in solution a bit longer, or can be done with cold solutions to keep gas in solution and just giving more time for the reaction to complete the work.



Thanks for the advice...in my case I've never seen chorine gas comes off from the solution, only with smoke that smells like bleach.
Adding a little bit of naoh, maybe we can intercept some excess of chlorine, or maybe stay in solution.


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## tiajeanbean (Oct 1, 2012)

can i just ask when this solution has disolved the gold what do you then do to precipitate the gold?


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## goldenchild (Oct 1, 2012)

butcher said:


> You are generating chlorine in solution, oxidizing a portion of the HCl acid to chlorine gas which is what dissolves the gold or platinum group metals, cold temperatures or diluting with water will help to keep chlorine in solution and then mild heating of the solution then generates more chlorine gas and concentrates the solution, small additions added down into the bottom of the solution also helps (a pipette and small piece of hose), as if you pour it from the jug into the acid much of the H2O2, will form a large amount of chlorine as soon as it hits the acid, and vapor off before it has a chance to mix into solution (or similar with bleach if you’re using this oxidizer, instead of concentrated peroxide to generate chlorine gas in solution with the HCl acid), sometime when I use the HCL/ NaClO (bleach) or the H2O2 as an oxidizer I will add the oxidizer to the powders first, and then add small additions of acid (kind of backwards than we normally use them (as the chlorine generated subsides and the reaction ceases then I will add more acid, this is usually done with mild heating and sometimes dilution to keep the gases in solution a bit longer, or can be done with cold solutions to keep gas in solution and just giving more time for the reaction to complete the work.



Ah. I thought we were talking solid pieces of gold. I also forgot to mention that the H202 I was using was in order to preserve nitric in solution. I guess that is a bit different than just H202 and HCL. Here is what I was experimenting with in the past. Its a shame I cant control it as it eliminates the red fumes. Oxygen is actually the gas that gets created! Maybe I will mess with this one day again. Im thinking I will use pure ethylene glycol if I do.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PhE7GIUrxA&list=UUulJxV7L-c3hiBhghfk1MYA&index=12&feature=plcp[/youtube]


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