# Acid / Bleach = Chlorine, Vacuum Extraction



## rusty (Apr 13, 2013)

Excess chlorine from acid / bleach leach removed without boiling under vacuum.

As soon as the vacuum pump was turned on a cloud of chlorine formed on top, then once this was drawn off a steady stream of chlorine gas has been bubbling off and rising from the liquid. 

Safer than ammonia, hold a piece of litmus paper over the exhaust port of the vacuum pump, if chlorine is still present it will bleach the litmus.

No heat is applied to the flask.


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## solar_plasma (Apr 13, 2013)

Very cool!


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## lazersteve (Apr 13, 2013)

This will happen with a warm solution that contains excess NOx as well when the conditions are right.

Steve


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## Palladium (Apr 13, 2013)

When i use urea and go to vacuum with a buchner you can denoxx a lot this way to.


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## squarecoinman (Apr 13, 2013)

Rusty , thank you very interesting post 

scm


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## ericrm (Apr 13, 2013)

Rusty, how long did it took to "dechlorine" your 4000ml solution?


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## rusty (Apr 14, 2013)

ericrm said:


> Rusty, how long did it took to "dechlorine" your 4000ml solution?



Approximately 5 minutes, this leach had been sitting in direct sunlight for the past 1.5 weeks so I would think some chlorine had evaporated naturally on it own accord.

I had purposely chosen a black plastic pail which would absorb heat from mother nature to assist ridding me of the chlorine, even then it was not completely removed.

Under negative pressure ( vacuum ) chlorine wants to boil off, had an interesting experience with another solution containing sulfur dioxide this afternoon as the gas was being drawn from the flask moisture from the air formed as a condensate on the outside of the vacuum hose for the first 2 or 3 inches leading from the flask.

Sulfur dioxide at one time was used as a refrigerant.

The principal behind refrigeration is using a substance capable of rapid evaporation absorbing heat as it does, add a few drops of rubbing alcohol onto your skin and blow across it. Your skin immediately feels cools as the alcohol rapidly evaporates. 

Refrigeration systems are hermetically sealed units built to recycle the refrigerant in an evaporating and re condensing circuit, commonly using capillary tubes singular or in multiples to restrict the flow of refrigerant where it rapidly evaporates into the evaporator on reaching the end of the tubing.

Yesterday while using nitric to leach out some metals from some slimes I had an eruption, the flask suddenly boiled over. The cause of this is when the particles being digested become very small the acid acts more vigorously on these which will cause a boil over.

This will no longer be a problem once my reactor arrives, the reactor can be set up to work under positive pressure to emulate atmospheric pressure at sea level to eliminate such events as liquids boiling over.

I'm approximately 400 meters above sea level, at this altitude water boils at 209.667 °F rather than the 212 °F we've been taught in school.


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## Marcel (Apr 14, 2013)

As the chlorines passes trough your pump, they may eat up the internal metallic parts over time. Apart from that a very nice finding!


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## rusty (Apr 14, 2013)

Marcel said:


> As the chlorines passes trough your pump, they may eat up the internal metallic parts over time. Apart from that a very nice finding!




Thanks for the heads up Marcel, I should have mentioned that the vacuum pump used for my process has no exposed metallic internal parts and that its made from PTFE aka Teflon which is chemically resistant to many chemicals.

This includes ozone, chlorine, acetic acid, ammonia, sulfuric acid and hydrochloric acid, aqua regia, nitric acid with the exception of fuming nitric. I've added a more complete list in the attached PDF file.

The only chemicals known to affect these coatings are molten alkali metals and highly reactive fluorinating agents.

Ten years ago while picking and drying morel mushrooms, i would put my morels inside a large black plastic bag to absorb heat from the sun then taped the opening closed with a hose tightly inserted. 

The hose plumbed into the intake manifold of my truck on a vacuum port, my morels would dry in record time without being bleached out by the suns rays, I ended up with a premium product.

Saved me the time of not having to build a drying rack or turning the mushrooms or having to worry about theft as the product traveled with me and not left unattended back at camp.


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## solar_plasma (Apr 14, 2013)

That I call STYLE!

Can you pump fluids like acids, too, with this pretty baby?


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## rusty (Apr 14, 2013)

solar_plasma said:


> That I call STYLE!
> 
> Can you pump fluids like acids, too, with this pretty baby?



No it will not pump liquids, you would need a pump designed for this application.

Already i purchase my nitric acid by the keg and soon would like to purchase hydrochloric by the drum, I have this PTFE acid pump in my ebay wish list.

The pump is pneumatically driven, requires compressed air.

The tire shops that handle large tractor tires use a similar pump to remove and replace calcium chloride in tires. The calcium chloride is added for weight to give the tractor better traction. 

Calcium chloride is being replaced in favor of beet juice which is non toxic to field or crop should a tire rupture.

A comprehensive list of tire ballasts used toxicity and freezing points, also included in the list is foam fill for flat free tires. 
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/2009/01/comparing-types-of-liquid-tire-ballast/
'

PTFE acid pump on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ashton-Air-...659?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a6a2e8493


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## solar_plasma (Apr 14, 2013)

> hydro-carbons



...then it's obviously explosion protected...well, no electricity...would like to know, how they handled the risc of static electricity..but that acid pump...I love it!


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## rusty (Apr 14, 2013)

solar_plasma said:


> > hydro-carbons
> 
> 
> 
> ...then it's obviously explosion protected...well, no electricity...would like to know, how they handled the risc of static electricity..but that acid pump...I love it!



PTFE has very good dielectric quality's, static electricity would not be a problem.

http://www.druflon.com/ptfeprop.html


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## skippy (Apr 14, 2013)

Rusty, I believe your pump is a step up and constructed all from ptfe unlike the last one you posted which has a body made of PE and diaphragms of teflon, if anyone wants the extra resistance make sure all the wetted parts are teflon or fluoropolymer. PE is pretty good though and should be fine for most things people here might want them for.

I have also seen peristaltic pumps come up on ebay at pretty good prices, they use use a bunch of rollers to push fluids (gases too) through a flexible tube. Viton tube would give good chemical resistance. A common brand is called masterflex. It might be a cheaper way to go.


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## rusty (Apr 14, 2013)

skippy said:


> Rusty, I believe your pump is a step up and constructed all from ptfe unlike the last one you posted which has a body made of PE and diaphragms of teflon, if anyone wants the extra resistance make sure all the wetted parts are teflon or fluoropolymer. PE is pretty good though and should be fine for most things people here might want them for.
> 
> I have also seen peristaltic pumps come up on ebay at pretty good prices, they use use a bunch of rollers to push fluids (gases too) through a flexible tube. Viton tube would give good chemical resistance. A common brand is called masterflex. It might be a cheaper way to go.



This is the same pump i had linked to earlier, and yes all the wetted parts are made from PTFE.

Here are the specs on the pump purchased.

Welch Chemical Duty dry pumps use PTFE on wetted parts for corrosion-resistance. PTFE construction allows the pumps to handle aggressive vapors and gases. Select were pumping corrosive gases in the rough vacuum range - 10 to 760 Torr (mm Hg). Use for applications such as degassing, vacuum filtration, desiccation, aspiration and distillation of organic, acidic and basic vapors. Supplied with muffler. All motors are TEFC, thermal overload protected, and are wired for 115V, 60Hz 1Ph. Inlet tubing required is ¼ in. I.D. vacuum tubing.

Specifications:
Free Air Displacement - 0.45CFM / 12.7 L/min
Max. Vacuum - 25.5 in Hg
Ultimate Pressure - 110 Torr / 146 mbar
Single Stage


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## skippy (Apr 14, 2013)

rusty said:


> solar_plasma said:
> 
> 
> > That I call STYLE!
> ...



Rusty I meant this one is not all ptfe wetted components. I forgot that your pump in your first post on this thread wasn't suitable for fluids, so I was wrong to compare your pump withe the one pictured above.


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## skippy (Apr 14, 2013)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COLE-PARMER-MASTERFLEX-7540-01-PERISTALTIC-PUMP-DRIVE-7014-20-PUMP-HEAD-/360620561940?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item53f6a91614

Here's a pic of a peristaltic pump. Pretty inexpensive, but I don't know how much a length of suitable viton tube would be. The pump heads can be found separate for even less. I bet you could find something in your junk pile to drive something like this and be in business for a really cheap.


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## rusty (Apr 14, 2013)

skippy said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/COLE-PARMER-MASTERFLEX-7540-01-PERISTALTIC-PUMP-DRIVE-7014-20-PUMP-HEAD-/360620561940?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item53f6a91614
> 
> Here's a pic of a peristaltic pump. Pretty inexpensive, but I don't know how much a length of suitable viton tube would be. The pump heads can be found separate for even less. I bet you could find something in your junk pile to drive something like this and be in business for a really cheap.



Fairly simple pump, from what I read elsewhere it is most suitably used as a dosing pump.


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