# Problem dropping metals / gold from Aqua Regia with SMB



## cmf21 (Jun 17, 2013)

I dissolved some ore in Aqua Regia. My solution is this yellowish orange color. When I test it with stannous chloride I get this dark purplish color. I took half of my solution and and added some Urea (is this supposed to be mixed with water?) until the fizzing stopped. I then added some smb which started turning the solution a darker color. After a few minutes, the solution quickly goes black / dark, and starts fizzing up almost overflowing the beaker and immediately turns into this yellowish solution.


Can anyone explain what might be going on. I thought that once the solution goes black it should start dropping out stuff. Why would my solution turn back to that yellow color. Is it because I don't have all the nitric out?


I went ahead and tried everything again with the remaining Aqua Regia but when I added the urea, I still got some fizzing but it also formed this thick whitish layer at the top of the solution. Don't know what happened there.


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## kkmonte (Jun 17, 2013)

General consensus here is to put the urea away and use it for your lawn. You should be removing excess nitric either by evaporation and additions of HCl or by adding a gold nugget and that will use up excess nitric.


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## cmf21 (Jun 17, 2013)

I thought about ditching the urea and just adding some more hcl. Maybe I'll try that. Any ideas as to why my solution went black and suddently fizzed and back to yellow?


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## solar_plasma (Jun 17, 2013)

Don't get me wrong, but at this point you have no clue. Download Hoke and read it, then follow the guided tour. First then you have the background to go on. Many of us have started like you, so don't feel bad. But stop that and do your homework first, if you love your life.


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## kkmonte (Jun 17, 2013)

cmf21 said:


> I thought about ditching the urea and just adding some more hcl. Maybe I'll try that. Any ideas as to why my solution went black and suddently fizzed and back to yellow?



I would guess that it's because you have excess nitric, the solution should go brownish (dirty looking) when gold starts to get precipitated. However with the excess nitric present, it's acting as an oxidizer and re-dissolving the gold that gets precipitated. I've never used AR or nitric in particular, just HCl/Cl and AP, this is just going from what i've read. I know after I have dissolved gold in HCl/Cl, after I have heated it to drive off excess chlorine, if I add SMB right the, it will fizzle as the chlorine neutralizes the SMB (or maybe the SMB is neutralizing the Chlorine).


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## patnor1011 (Jun 18, 2013)

It is hard to say what is going on. Everything is just a guess since you do not know what you put in AR.
Ore is a no go with AR.
You need to know what is in your ore and what is not there so assay is a start. You also need to treat it before you attempt to recover anything from it.


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## solar_plasma (Jun 18, 2013)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1379&start=40

There is a download link for Ammen's book, there's a lot about treating ores,too. At all I find it helpfull to read both, Ammen and Hoke. Just remember some methods described in the books are outdated, like mercury aided recovery, urea (guess it is a beloved method in palestine, though - ok, bad joke!) or tasting filtrates as a cation test :lol:


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## Seny2021 (Dec 16, 2022)

Hi guys 
I need help with precipitation 

I added some smb to my solution and it first turned brown the full black
Is this normal?


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 16, 2022)

Seny2021 said:


> Hi guys
> I need help with precipitation
> 
> I added some smb to my solution and it first turned brown the full black
> Is this normal?


Seny we need a lot more info if we are going to be able help you.

What was dissolved and with what was it dissolved?

That is the first thing, then other questions may come later.


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## cejohnsonsr1 (Dec 16, 2022)

That’s pretty much what you should expect to see. You really should do a stannous test before adding the SMB to verify gold in solution. And again after to verify that it all precipitated. By the time you read this your gold should have been long settled. But the answer to your question is yes. First it turns a muddy brown color and then, if there’s enough gold in solution, it will turn a much darker color.


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## Seny2021 (Dec 17, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Seny we need a lot more info if we are going to be able help you.
> 
> What was dissolved and with what was it dissolved?
> 
> That is the first thing, then other questions may come later.


Well I had a litle bit of gold that had processed few days ago and wanted to refine it using aqua Regia so I did. 
But I added in to the aqua Regia some ram and graphics card fingers too 

After I newtrilize using urea I used 500ml of distilled boiled water and added 4tb spoon of smd mixed and threw it in and the reaction was dark black. 

Thankfully this morning woke up and came to chack its kind a green and can see some gold at the bottom


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 17, 2022)

Seny2021 said:


> Well I had a litle bit of gold that had processed few days ago and wanted to refine it using aqua Regia so I did.
> But I added in to the aqua Regia some ram and graphics card fingers too
> 
> After I newtrilize using urea I used 500ml of distilled boiled water and added 4tb spoon of smd mixed and threw it in and the reaction was dark black.
> ...


If you dissolve the Gold, ALL metal must be dissolved, if not, some of the Gold will cement out,
and with PCBs that can be inside the PCB.

Have you read Ms Hokes book yet?
How much was dissolved?
How did you deNOx the Solution?
How did you prepare your AR?

Wht you describe, is typical for low concentration dirty solutions.


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## Shark (Dec 17, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Wht you describe, is typical for low concentration dirty solutions.


Perfect description. 

The blackish color is from drag down of other metals and will need cleaning up to produce high quality gold. When the drop comes down and stays a lighter brown color is a goodbsign of decent purity.


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## eaglekeeper (Dec 17, 2022)

kkmonte said:


> General consensus here is to put the urea away and use it for your lawn. You should be removing excess nitric either by evaporation and additions of HCl or by adding a gold nugget and that will use up excess nitric.



Using Sulfamic acid to remove excess nitric acid is a widely excepted method....aside from not using too much nitric from the beginning.


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## eaglekeeper (Dec 17, 2022)

patnor1011 said:


> It is hard to say what is going on. Everything is just a guess since you do not know what you put in AR.
> Ore is a no go with AR.
> You need to know what is in your ore and what is not there so assay is a start. You also need to treat it before you attempt to recover anything from it.



As Patnor1011 has said above.

Also on the safety side of things,
Your ore *could* contain some pretty nasty elements and dissolving them makes them more easily absorbed into the body.... probably should know what's there first.


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## Seny2021 (Dec 28, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> If you dissolve the Gold, ALL metal must be dissolved, if not, some of the Gold will cement out,
> and with PCBs that can be inside the PCB.
> 
> Have you read Ms Hokes book yet?
> ...


I haven't read any book yet 


I used sulfuric acid to denox 

And my AR was 1 nitric acid and 3 Hydrochloric acid

Sorry for taking so long 
TO answer


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 29, 2022)

Seny2021 said:


> I haven't read any book yet
> 
> 
> I used sulfuric acid to denox
> ...


So you have not read the book, and not studied the forum, obviously!
And you have not deNOxed anything.
Sulfuric do not deNOx.

So what have you been doing?

We all do this for free on our own free time and you show us the “respect” of doing nothing but asking for help?

There are three tings we ask from new members, and you have been here long enough to not be considered new any more.
1 read Hokes book so you can gain a minimum of refining understanding and have a platform to build on,
2 study the safety section of the forum to get your awareness for you own and others safety in focus.
3 study dealing with waste so you can treat your waste products in a safe and acceptable way.

So until you have done these things, I suggest you stow away your experiments in a safe place.

Edited spelling


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## eaglekeeper (Dec 29, 2022)

Seny2021 said:


> I haven't read any book yet
> 
> 
> I used sulfuric acid to denox
> ...



Never *pre-mix* your AR.... just add the nitric acid in small increments, that will mostly solve your denoxing issue.


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## Seny2021 (Dec 29, 2022)

eaglekeeper said:


> Never *pre-mix* your AR.... just add the nitric acid in small increments, that will mostly solve your denoxing issue.


I'm going to try that right now was about to prepare AR


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## Seny2021 (Dec 29, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> So you have not read the book, and not studied the forum, obviously!
> And you have not deNOxed anything.
> Sulfuric do not deNOx.
> 
> ...


I meant Urea


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## Seny2021 (Dec 29, 2022)

Okay I have started reading the book and already find it I testing 


Seny2021 said:


> I meant Urea


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 29, 2022)

Seny2021 said:


> I meant Urea


Worse, it do not fully decompose the Nitric compounds, and...
Urea can create explosive compounds when in contact with Nitrates.
Use Urea for what it is, a fertilizer.
For deNOxing you use Sulfamic acid in a hot solution.

But do what I told you, set your stuff away in a safe place and study the book and the sections I recommended.

Have you studied the forum at all...?
You have been doing everything wrong, so what have you been doing since you became a member?

Drop youtube completely (its a potential killer in this respect) and if you absolutely NEED to use Youtube, watch Sreetips, Owltech, and a couple other members, they make good and safe videos.


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## Seny2021 (Dec 30, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Worse, it do not fully decompose the Nitric compounds, and...
> Urea can create explosive compounds when in contact with Nitrates.
> Use Urea for what it is, a fertilizer.
> For deNOxing you use Sulfamic acid in a hot solution.
> ...


I haven't been too active 
On the group 
Thanks for the motivation


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## Seny2021 (Dec 31, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Worse, it do not fully decompose the Nitric compounds, and...
> Urea can create explosive compounds when in contact with Nitrates.
> Use Urea for what it is, a fertilizer.
> For deNOxing you use Sulfamic acid in a hot solution.
> ...


Followed the advice é and kept all aside 
Ordered 20l nitric acid 20hcl and some sulphamic acid will start a new journey with sulphamic acid.


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