# Please help me identify this metal ?



## Q33 (Dec 19, 2015)

I have found this piece, as you can see it on the picture, it has a metallic grey color and shiny,when I saw it on the ground the surface was a black and it had a purple color, but when I took it I saw it has a metallic grey color, in the place where I found this it were also like this with yellow color,brown,green, white, but they were not shiny, pink and purple from which I took this piece were shiny. It was also a lot of quartz there and within this piece with something yellow,which I think it's probably a gold.After an investigate I did on Internet it indicates to be a horn silver (chlorargyrite), but I'm still not sure, I need an opinion. This metallic grey one I refined it with acid sulphuric and I got this grey fluffy powder you can see it on photo. I compared it with silver powder photos on website and it is 100% similar.


----------



## torscot (Dec 19, 2015)

I might be able to assist you, I am familiar with silver in its many forms in nature, both native and secondary forms. I have several questions that could help you make an identification. This looks like no Chloraryrite I have ever seen.

Was this found in nature? example, in or on the ground in the bush. Or is it man made? Example found in an old industrial area. 

If in nature, were these other colors, pink, green, etc. just coatings, or films on the rocks surface. 

Again, if from nature. Did it come from an area that produced silver in the past? The location, I see you are listed as from Macedonia, A province or district, as soon as I know the area I can really focus in on the minerals present.

Was this found as a paste or coating? From you photo you appear to be rolling it around in your hands like putty?

With answers to these questions I might be able to help you identify what you have. 

Some warnings! Native silver is commonly found in veins containing some very bad elements. The worst is arsenic. Nickel and cobalt. All the colors you described are arsenates of nickel and cobalt. 

Your material, if it was silver chloride. You "refined" your material in sodium hydroxide ONLY. your powder should be black. Silver chloride or Chloraryrite would reduce to silver oxide. not native silver. You missed one more step to bring it silver metal.

What it looks like you are rolling in your fingers is annabergite. (Ni3(AsO4)2 · 8H2O) Sometimes found as a pale green or almost white material on decomposed veins. I have found it in such quantities on these veins to make "snowballs" out of it. No silver. Mostly nickel and arsenic. That's a guess based on your description. If my guess is right, don't put this under a torch to try to melt your powder to metal. If you want to live. The fumes could be deadly.

Please answer my questions and I will see I f I or any of the other members can narrow down what you have. And perhaps a photo that shows the colors better. Thank you for joining the forum. There are many people here who are very good at refining metals.

Robert.


----------



## Q33 (Dec 19, 2015)

It is natural.It is found on a riverbed,in the ground,this is paste,other colors like purple, green,etc. are paste too, was not found in silver producing area. Within it I also found a quartz. Thank you for having interest to help me.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Dec 19, 2015)

Q33, you should really be wearing gloves.

Dave


----------



## Q33 (Dec 19, 2015)

I will do it. Thank you for the advice Dave.


----------



## torscot (Dec 19, 2015)

Excellent. It would be hard make an identification on that. So, if we cannot say what it is visually. Let us do some tests to find out. I too am still hoping you have a silver bearing material. Here is how you can find out. It will take the use of some chemicals. But I think this is the only way.

Nitric acid 68% pure. to test you only need a few milliliters. test 2

Distilled water. again only a few ml. test 2

Table salt, non iodized. A few grains. test 2

Hydrochloric acid, (muriatic acid) For testing again only a few ml. test 1

Ammonium hydroxide. again only a few ml. test 1.

test 1. Looking for silver chloride. take 5 grams of your material place it in a small bottle. Add a small amount of ammonia,(20ml) shake it around. let it sit for several minutes. let the left over solids settle. pour off the clear liquid into another clear container. Add 20ml of hydrochloric acid . The reaction will produce a white smoke. do not inhale. When the reaction is finished you have a white precipitate in you jar. Your material contains silver chloride. That white precipitate is silver chloride. If you get nothing your material does not contain silver chloride.

test 2. looking for silver. Take 5 grams of your material place it in a small bottle. Add 5ml nitric acid and 5 ml distilled water. A red smoke should form. DO NOT! inhale this smoke it is dangerous. Leave to react for a hour or so. Pour off the liquid into another clear container. Add table salt. If you get a white precipitate your material contains silver in its native form not as a chloride. If nothing happens your material does not contain silver. 

These are no fail tests. If you do not get a white precipitate from either of the tests. What you have is as good as mud.

Good luck!
Rob.


----------



## Q33 (Dec 19, 2015)

Thank you Rob, I will start working on it, it will take me some time finding acids, the place I live it is very difficult to find. Thank you again.


----------



## torscot (Dec 19, 2015)

If you cannot find the chemicals, send me a sample by mail, I am in Canada. And I'll test it for you. I can forward you my address by private message if you're interested. You have caught my curiosity with this. All I ask is if it's silver bearing that I may have a small specimen of this for my collection. I collect native silver from around the world and have nothing from your area.
Rob.


----------



## Q33 (Dec 19, 2015)

Rob I will look for acids first, hope I will find them, if not I will send you a small specimen, and of course if it is silver bearing, I will give you a small specimen for your collection.


----------



## patnor1011 (Dec 19, 2015)

Riverbed hmmm - metallic ore/rock coated with mercury?


----------



## Q33 (Dec 20, 2015)

It is not a rock coated, it is a paste.


----------



## Q33 (Dec 20, 2015)

Rob, this is my email: send me your address, and I will send you two specimens, one for testing, and the other for you, to have it on your collection, in case it is silver bearing.


----------



## Q33 (Dec 20, 2015)

Rob I will tell you something hope it has significance identifying this ,one day, I took a yellow paste I have found along with this specimen and dissolved in sulphuric acid and water, though it was gold, because it was a lot of quartz in it, and in that moment nothing happened, and I left that container I didn't had time to clean it, after a few days when I took that container I saw that yellow paste had turned to white. What do you think of it?


----------



## butcher (Dec 20, 2015)

Sounds like that gold you seen could have been fools gold, possibly iron pyrites.
There are also tests you can use for a test on suspected gold, the gold pan or a small pocket knife can be used, gold is heavy it has a density much higher than most things you will find in the river bed, panning the gold it will stay in the pan after rocks and most of the sand is panned away, pyrite is lite and will pan out even before the rock or sands, gold is malleable, the pyrite will crush to pieces under the pressure of the pocket knife. there are other tests but these will pretty much tell you if what you have in that river bed is gold or fools gold.


----------



## Q33 (Dec 20, 2015)

Thank you for helping butcher, I will do the tests and I will post the results.


----------



## torscot (Dec 20, 2015)

Butcher is correct about pyrite. Try Butcher's crush and pan test. That is a very quick way to answer if you have gold. You will need a magnifying glass to see the gold IF there is any. Pyrite contains Iron and sulphur, so it would react in sulphuric acid. Sulphuric acid will not react with gold, silver or platinum. Iron pyrite was at one time a source for sulphuric acid. Pyrite is known for sometimes carrying gold. But in quantities that you and I could never recover. Only 1-2 grams per 1000 kg's. A waste of your time to try to recover. There are ways to test it yourself. Go to this topic for info. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=10932

Because of all the different colours you have described. Just one more question. You have stated that this is natural, from a riverbed. Is this totally natural?, example the water coming down from the mountains without any chance of pollution. Or, is it down river from any old industrial sites or towns? 

I have sent you an email with my address, so you can send a sample of the silver material for me to test. I do not have the ability to test for gold because of the minute quantities involved, and I have no interest in gold. So, that's all I can say about gold.

Just a suggestion. I now have your email, thank you. Perhaps edit the post that contains it to remove or alter your email address. This forum is public. So, as is your email is out there for the world to see and use.

Robert.


----------



## Q33 (Dec 20, 2015)

Rob this is totally natural.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Dec 20, 2015)

For anyone trying to identify an unknown mineral, take a look at the Quick Qualitative Testing of Rocks and Ore thread. You'll find a couple of versions of Raymond "Duke" Maulsby's tests for minerals.

Dave


----------



## Q33 (Dec 20, 2015)

Thank you very much Dave.


----------



## Q33 (Jan 2, 2016)

It was also quartz with something yellow within this grey metal which I think probably it's gold.


----------



## jimdoc (Jan 2, 2016)

Isn't this the same as in your last topic?
Why start a new one?


----------



## Q33 (Jan 2, 2016)

It's same topic I have changed the searching place, from silver, to prospecting and ores.


----------



## jimdoc (Jan 2, 2016)

I see. Maybe a moderator will merge all the posts in with this one?

Jim


----------



## Q33 (Jan 2, 2016)

Probably.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Jan 2, 2016)

jimdoc said:


> Maybe a moderator will merge all the posts in with this one?


Done.

Dave


----------



## Reno Chris (Jan 3, 2016)

The photos are of a very low quality, hard to see what something is when through the photos one can barely see. 
Identifying stuff by photos is a total guess anyway. 
Even in riverbeds, man made materials can be found. I have found lead, odd alloys, iron, aluminum and of course gold and silver in riverbeds. 
Finding in a riverbed is no assurance of a natural product.


----------



## Q33 (Jan 4, 2016)

Thank you for posting, it is totally natural, I have found it in a vein, and a piece you see it on the photo it's just a tiny piece of that what I have found.


----------



## Q33 (Jan 4, 2016)

I will try to make a better photos.


----------



## Q33 (Jan 4, 2016)

Here is another photo


----------



## Platdigger (Jan 4, 2016)

Hello Q33, Welcome to the forum.
I see there is Lead-zinc-silver as well as copper-gold mining in your beautiful country.

I also see were there is a new discovery of Au-As-Sb-Tl.

Be very careful treating an unknown ore with acids. If there is arsenic in your ore you could poison yourself or others very quickly with just one breath.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Jan 4, 2016)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Q33, you should really be wearing gloves.
> 
> Dave





Q33 said:


> I will do it. Thank you for the advice Dave.


 :evil: 

Dave


----------



## Q33 (Jan 5, 2016)

Thank you Platdigger.


----------



## torscot (Jan 10, 2016)

When this subject was first posted I had offered to help Q33 to identify his unknown material. He was quite willing and immediately sent me three samples of his material for me to examine and test for him. I rec'd his package last Monday.

The material rec'd was an alluvial clay that when wet had a very strong dull silver colour. I screened the material with a 200 mesh screen to get the fines. The larger pebbles were white calcite and dolomite. When dry it was very hard and still had the silver colouring.

It was obvious by the dry weight that it did not contain metal. (extremely light weight). I said I would test it though. Took a samlple dissolved it in Nitric acid, filtered the remaining solids. Added HCI to filtered soloution. NO precipitate. I ran some HCI through the filter also in case there was silver chloride formed during the nitric process. Then left the filter in the sun for two days. NO colour change. This pretty well rules out silver, lead. Tested the same amount of material using AR, Filtered, dropped a small piece of iron into soloution. NO precipitate. That rules out most other metals.

Looked at the clay under 80x scope. Consisted of very heavily worn (rounded) calcite and heavily worn rounded flakes and micro particles of muscovite mica. I provide a link to a site showing and explaining this mineral 

http://www.mindat.org/min-2815.html 

Qenen, the material that is colouring your clay "silver" is muscovite mica. So finely ground by stream action as to form a clay. Muscovite mica in nature can have a silver colour to it. But, it does not contain the element silver.

The test that clinched the ID was taking the screened material and placing it in water, in a jar, and back lighting it with a flashlight. The light penetrated. Light does not penetrate rock or metal. Biotite mica is translucent, and the light shone through.

I am sorry my friend. But there is no silver or as far as I can detect, any precious metal in the samples you sent me. 

You can have the material tested by XRF, or XRD to get the elements present. These are professional services, and cannot be done my myself. They would have to be sent out for that. These are just quick simple little field tests that I use and have done for you. 

Things to remember about precious metals in their NATIVE forms when you are prospecting. They are metal, and will not crush to dust when hit with a hammer. A magnifying glass is your best friend.

Look in places where precious metals have been found in the past. Learn the basic geology of the area you are looking in. Learn the types of rock that hosted those deposits. What kind of rock were the deposits in. Learn, learn learn. Your country has been prospected over for thousands of years. (several thousands) If your government has a geological service or a department of mines and minerals look into the publications by them as a starting point. Go to where it has been found in the past and work out from there

Good luck, You never know what you might find in nature, but today I know you didn't find silver. 

Robert.


----------



## kurtak (Jan 10, 2016)

Robert

Job well done & thanks for posting :!: 8) 

Kurt


----------



## Q33 (Jan 10, 2016)

Robert, thank you very much, for testing it.


----------

