# Extreme amount of Gold plating?!



## reignofonebass (Jul 30, 2017)

Hello all, i am brand new to the forum. I have ran across some telecom Circuit boards that are 16" X 11" and the back side is 100% coated in what appears to be gold. 

well long story short, i am researching before i begin this journey. Safety is always first. i have read quite a few posts here that are educational, and needless to say, youtube videos that are so so.. being brand new to the chemistry required to process this material, its hard to tell the BS from the real advice. 

I have access to about 110 of these boards. they do have connectors, Pins, and certain boards have a large piece of Gold coated bands. it appears as though I'm sitting on ALOT of money here, so i want to be sure that i am doing this correctly. I do not have access to Nitric acid, so thats out of the question I'm guessing. so far, i have began stripping the boards of all components. i have taken a batch, which is just 1 board, stripped of components, weighing 200g, and am giving it a bath in straight Hydrochloric acid to remove Tin. i understand its trash in, trash out.. 

Anyhow, i am coming here to make sure that i am going about things correctly. i am open to any and all input. 
Thanks in Advance!!


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## reignofonebass (Jul 30, 2017)

I know a picture is worth a thousand words.. so here is a sample. anyone think this would be worth refining?


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## butcher (Jul 30, 2017)

With gold, it always looks like more, gold fever there is always gold at the end of the rainbow, my problem when I get there that rainbow seems to have moved on me.

Some thing we need to learn is patience, the gold is there, it may not be as much as it looks like, and we need to come back to reality, we will have to put in a lot of work to learn to get that gold, before attempting.

Why are you worried about nitric acid? that is not a problem, there is no need for acids now if you had them you would have already dissolved your gold and circuit boards into a giant toxic mess, possibly poisoning yourself with the fumes, Not knowing how to get your gold back, and not knowing how to safely dispose of the toxic waste polluting the water supply of all your neighbors.

You do not need nitric or any acids at this point, there is no need to buy a bunch of labware, or chemicals.
We can begin with second-hand kitchen utensils and make many of the chemicals like nitric acid, or ferrous sulfate... 
But let us not put the cart in front of the horse, we first need to learn to harness the team before we hook them up to the wagon and take the wagon through those dangerous mountain passes.

First, we need to do a little home work.
let's get an understanding of safety precautions, and dealing with waste, check out the safety section.
learn where the gold is, how to collect, prepare, and separate the materials for processing. as simple as this seems this can mean success or failure of our project, some metals create huge problems( like tin), even the metals that do not create problems with recovery can pose a problem (copper, for example, can displace your gold), so we need to learn to separate and get at least a very basic understanding of the chemical actions of how metals react in solutions...

My suggestion is to collect some computer memory cards, even if you have to buy then as education tools, along with keeping studying and collecting more scrap in order to get at least a little gold, you may not get as rich off what you have now as you think.

After studying the safety aspects, studying how to separate and prepare the scrap, and collecting more scrap we need to begin study of a simple process, like the (CuCl2) copper chloride etching, wrongly called the acid peroxide process on the forum, with this we can recover the gold, and can go on to study how to dissolve the gold without the king of (dangerous acids) aqua regia or nitric acid, using simple chemicals many people already have in their house or garage... 

Well there we go again putting the horse in front of that cart, we have to really watch that gold fever and not get impatient to get that gold we see shining.

Do not worry about getting that thar gold, it will be there when you are ready, but if you do not know how to harness your horse and tie him to the back of yer cart you are going to have a rough trip through them thar Alps.

Begin with safety and study of dealing with waste, this trip through the Alps will take a little time to learn in the beginning (education is where the real gold is not that shiny glitter of that little bit of gold you see on that circuit board in your hand. We will learn to harness this team in no time, then we can take a nice ride through those dangerous mountains with the skill needed to get us where we wish to go.


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## jimdoc (Jul 31, 2017)

Or you could always sell them on Ebay. Or to someone already set-up to recover the gold safely.


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## reignofonebass (Jul 31, 2017)

Thank you for the reply! I have done some homework, maybe not enough. I am not trying to put the cart before the horse here, and I certainly am going about it safely. What I am doing so far is all outside, with a full chemical suit, heavy duty chemical gloves, goggles, and a respirator. I have the lab ware, and I'm trying to get a yield test completed at this point. I have 110 of these exact radios. 

Right now I'm just learning as I go, and by as I go, I mean a yield test. Firstly. These boards are not easy to get to and require a lot of work to get to. I'm just wondering if it will be worth all the effort with this many boards.

I don't know where to start with the calculation of yeild. I understand they are very thin, but from what I gather from other places and people experience. The yield should be high, considering the volume of boards and the surface area alone. 

Can anyone help with the calculation? 

And what kind of dollar amount would these go for on eBay?


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## kernels (Aug 1, 2017)

The visible gold plating on those boards are ENIG, a very thin gold plating, so it looks like much more than it really is. They are however still very good quality boards to process if you get them cheap enough.


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## butcher (Aug 1, 2017)

Try the forum search, try gold plating with GSP as an author, GSP is a math wizard, He has many posts on calculating the amount of gold, thickness, value... You may find answers to the question there.

The math normally just goes over my head, so I am no help.

The gold plating on the circuit traces are thin, very thin, companies try to save every penny they can to make profits, they will not use precious metals where they are not needed, they will use as little as they can get by with.
There is no reason to have a thick coating of gold on the copper traces of the circuit board, unlike memory fingers or gold plated copper connectors where the physical wear of plugging in und unplugging the connection would cause friction and wear, where the protective coating of gold could be fairly easily rubbed off by mechanical action and the copper or base metal of the pin would be exposed to oxidation and a bad connection...


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## anachronism (Aug 2, 2017)

The boards do yield well particularly the first board. Butcher these are boards from Ericsson or Nortel microwave Base stations 3G/4G. 

I refine a lot of tonnes of these.

The plating is not necessarily as thin as you would think because the boards sell for many thousands of dollars each, and are designed for extremely low rates of failure. A few bucks of extra gold really isn't a concern in this application.


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## patnor1011 (Aug 2, 2017)

I bet that there is several times more gold in those three BGA IC than what you see as a plating on that particular board. Throw in other IC to process and sell depopulated boards on ebay. While hundred of them do look like big amount at the end of the day it is too little to excite some refinery and too much to process in buckets.


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## snoman701 (Aug 2, 2017)

anachronism said:


> The boards do yield well particularly the first board. Butcher these are boards from Ericsson or Nortel microwave Base stations 3G/4G.
> 
> I refine a lot of tonnes of these.
> 
> The plating is not necessarily as thin as you would think because the boards sell for many thousands of dollars each, and are designed for extremely low rates of failure. A few bucks of extra gold really isn't a concern in this application.



Sweet...i just bought a load of these that I had to take apart. Hoping for more. Thanks for the info!

Also got the amplifiers...what a pain to take apart. Everything is rivetted to the aluminum heat sink.


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## anachronism (Aug 2, 2017)

That'll be the silver plated aluminium heatsink then?


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## silversaddle1 (Aug 2, 2017)

I'd put those on E-Bay so fast your head would spin. Want to make twice what the gold's worth without refining anything, there's your answer!


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## snoman70 (Aug 2, 2017)

anachronism said:


> That'll be the silver plated aluminium heatsink then?


No actually....I'm used to seeing it in the splitter boxes, but none in these.

Not that I do anything with the silver aluminum anyway. I didn't figure it to be worth my time. Am I wrong? 


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## g_axelsson (Aug 2, 2017)

snoman70 said:


> anachronism said:
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> > That'll be the silver plated aluminium heatsink then?
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Great first post! :lol: 

Done a lot of reading the last six years and finally decided to participate? :mrgreen: 

Göran


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## snoman701 (Aug 2, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> snoman70 said:
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lol...somethin like that.

I don't know how, but I guess I had two accounts. It's ok, I've got just as many if not more personalities.


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## g_axelsson (Aug 2, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> lol...somethin like that.
> 
> I don't know how, but I guess I had two accounts. It's ok, I've got just as many if not more personalities.


So Snoman, registered in 2013 isn't your account then? :wink: 

... what happened to Snoman7?

Göran


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## snoman701 (Aug 2, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> snoman701 said:
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> > lol...somethin like that.
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Honestly, Snoman registered in 2013 very well could be me as well...not all my personalities talk to each other....so sometimes I have to use hearsay to figure things out!...I didn't even know I had the 70 account.

I would have skipped 7. It's eBay's fault. I tried registering many many years as Snowman, and they suggested I use snoman70, and it has just sort of stuck. Less usernames to remember. 

I didn't even know the 70 account was mine. I was trying to log in to this account, and had the username messed up and the password wasn't working. So I just started working through old passwords and bam, it logged me in. Didn't even notice it was a second account until I didn't get alerts on tapatalk when someone posted something in reply.


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## reignofonebass (Aug 2, 2017)

Anachronism, do you happen to have a figure of yield per board or per 200g's I am doing this in my backyard, and refining via buckets. I have an unlimited supply of these. About 100 or so per week, as well as tons of additional telecom equipment. All 100% legal of course as they are all being thrown in the trash.

I'm brand new to the process and trying to determine what I'll get out of 100 of these


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## snoman70 (Aug 2, 2017)

He'll probably just want to buy them off you if they are worth shipping!


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## reignofonebass (Aug 2, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> anachronism said:
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> > The boards do yield well particularly the first board. Butcher these are boards from Ericsson or Nortel microwave Base stations 3G/4G.
> ...



These RRUs B12,S sell for 22,000 each... so yeah not a cost factor you wouldn't think


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## anachronism (Aug 2, 2017)

Since you've asked such a straight question, it deserves reciprocation. If you were to deal with a company in the US who buys these boards to refine and who both knows the value and is willing to work with you you can make a very tidy income even at the levels of boards you have access to. More of an income than you would get by refining them yourself once you take into account time, materials and equipment.

I wouldn't want to start spitting yield figures out publicly because frankly it's where I make a chunk of my living but rest assured that if you take my advice at the beginning of this post you can do well for yourself. Happy to publicly help in how to break down and segregate the values though if that's of benefit.

Jon


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## reignofonebass (Aug 2, 2017)

anachronism said:


> The boards do yield well particularly the first board. Butcher these are boards from Ericsson or Nortel microwave Base stations 3G/4G.
> 
> I refine a lot of tonnes of these.
> 
> The plating is not necessarily as thin as you would think because the boards sell for many thousands of dollars each, and are designed for extremely low rates of failure. A few bucks of extra gold really isn't a concern in this application.




These particular boards are macro base stations servicing 1900mhz & 850mhz. They are the latest technology aside from 5G.

Do you happen to know the specs of the plating? Are these worth stripping of Gold? 

I'm hearing both ends of the spectrum here.. not worth doing, and good yield lol. 


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## snoman701 (Aug 2, 2017)

Here's the deal. When you normally see boards of this nature, it's a very thin coating of gold...a flash. The flash is put there for primarily one reason. Gold is non-reactive. It won't tarnish. It will protect the conductive service from corrosion. There's lots of other reasons...increased conductivity, I'm sure some RF mumbo jumbo that Goran can be more specific on....stuff like that.

The flash is often seen on computer components...or cell phone components...even some flat screen television components. Consumer grade equipment. 

What has happened, is that a majority of the members have gotten so sick of seeing flash gold and people thinking they've hit the jackpot....and most of the time they are right.

When I have something that i question the value of, the first thing I question is what is the value of this board working. When it comes to a cell phone, a television, or a computer part...not much. When it comes to one of these boards...it's measured in $1,000's per hour, plus the cost of diagnosing and repairing the problem. Same can be said for medical equipment. Same can be said for data acquistion and some scientific eqiupment. 

Now, as for refining yourself. 

You can recover visible gold plating by cutting it clean from the rest of the board. This can be done with either AP method or copper chloride method. 

You can recover the gold wires within the BGA chips. 

Beyond that, it's going to be beyond the capabilities or ease of doing yourself. ON EDIT: AND it's going to be a huge amount of chemical waste, and really not be all that much fun. 

If I had a constant source of this board, and I really wish I did, what I would do is simple. I'd strip it's BGA chips to process myself and cache the rest. Once I got to a point where i had over 1,000 lbs of boards, I'd either sell them direct to a packager or have them toll refined at one of the companies that does such.


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## snoman701 (Aug 2, 2017)

Oh...I'd also pull the coaxial connectors off. You will not get yield from any of the incinerating toll refiners on those. Sell them on Ebay by the pound or find someone on here to toll them for you. They will be best done with cyanide, as I'm almost positive it's gold on stainless. If it's gold on copper or brass, disregard this whole statement.


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## reignofonebass (Aug 2, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> Here's the deal. When you normally see boards of this nature, it's a very thin coating of gold...a flash. The flash is put there for primarily one reason. Gold is non-reactive. It won't tarnish. It will protect the conductive service from corrosion. There's lots of other reasons...increased conductivity, I'm sure some RF mumbo jumbo that Goran can be more specific on....stuff like that.
> 
> The flash is often seen on computer components...or cell phone components...even some flat screen television components. Consumer grade equipment.
> 
> ...




First, these are not consumer grade by any means. These power the entire cell phone infrastructure and cost the carrier (AT&T,T-Mobile, Sprint) over $22,000 each. I understand the flashing, but in the application, I think it may be thicker due to the RF involved. Keep in mind. These are 160watt radios that operate on -48v DC and are exposed to the elements anywhere from 60ft 10 800ft in the air. Maybe Goran can chime in and correct me. About the thickness.


Reselling the Radios (ericsson RRUs B2'S, B12's ; RRUW's ; A2 modules (which have the ceramics) and the list goes on) in usable condition is something I'd do, and would probably be 20 times more profitable, however I have no clue where or how to find a buyer that is interested in building telecommunications infrastructure in a 3 world country (most are still operating on 3G).

These boards are in perfect condition, and practically brand new (some of them have the factory seal from Ericsson) 

Selling the radios ready to go is something I'd like to do as it's most profitable, but I don't think is a reality. Unless someone here has the hookup lol

Note. These are not stolen, they are bought, paid for, not assetted or tracked and 100% legal. 




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## snoman701 (Aug 2, 2017)

That was my point...I trust Anachronism's posts when it comes to thickness and value of the boards. I do believe them to be of value, greater than consumer great equipment.

I assumed you were one of the telecom techs tasked with removing these, no concerns about hot property. 

My concern is mostly for your safety. In terms of things that are easy to process, your best bet is the BGA chips, then having the boards toll refined, or selling them outright. What state are you in?


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## reignofonebass (Aug 2, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> That was my point...I trust Anachronism's posts when it comes to thickness and value of the boards. I do believe them to be of value, greater than consumer great equipment.
> 
> I assumed you were one of the telecom techs tasked with removing these, no concerns about hot property.
> 
> My concern is mostly for your safety. In terms of things that are easy to process, your best bet is the BGA chips, then having the boards toll refined, or selling them outright. What state are you in?




The BGA chips don't appear to have much Gold under them. That'd be the last place I would think of as the choice component to strip. Maybe I'm blind lol. I'm in GA


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## jimdoc (Aug 3, 2017)

reignofonebass said:


> The BGA chips don't appear to have much Gold under them. That'd be the last place I would think of as the choice component to strip. Maybe I'm blind lol. I'm in GA
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It's not under them, it's inside them.


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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

jimdoc said:


> reignofonebass said:
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> > The BGA chips don't appear to have much Gold under them. That'd be the last place I would think of as the choice component to strip. Maybe I'm blind lol. I'm in GA
> ...



Jim,

Thank you, just watched a video about it. Mostly the gold is in the top epoxy chip. Odd


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## g_axelsson (Aug 3, 2017)

I could tell you a whole lot about rf mumbo jumbo, but I'm not doing it today.  

Whenever I'm questioning the thickness of gold plating I put a small piece in a test tube and hit it with some nitric acid. If the plating is thick it comes off in a large chunk, while thin plating breaks up in small pieces.
Another way is just put a drop of nitric on the surface and watch how fast it reacts. There is a couple of videos on youtube where Successful engineer is testing different plated boards with nitric acid.
http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/ENIG

I haven't tested any boards like this so I can't tell you about the thickness of the plating.

And it shouldn't be a big surprise that most of the gold in BGA chips is in the top epoxy piece, it is there to protect the bond wires from physical damage. And every solder ball is connected to the chip via a thin wire and there is a lot of them on a BGA.
http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/BGA
http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/Bond_wire

Göran


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## kernels (Aug 3, 2017)

This thread has a surprisingly large amount of fantastic information. Actually both sides of this conversation is correct, those boards are simultaneously very high yielding and very low yielding . . . 

The difference is how you process them. 

Anarchronism will have some form of leach or smelting operation set up where he does not dissolve away all the copper to get to the gold. So the yields for him are very good, because those boards do have a lot of gold for their weight.

The vast majority of us hobbyists end up dissolving away copper to get the gold, when doing so you create a vast volume of hazardous waste acid. So for us, the yields from those boards are not worth the time and effort to treat the waste. I have processed a few of those boards, they are 100% guaranteed a thin flash plating. 

By comparison to the visible gold, bond wires inside ICs add up quickly and the majority of your processing is mechanical or with water, so much less waste to deal with.


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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> I could tell you a whole lot about rf mumbo jumbo, but I'm not doing it today.
> 
> Whenever I'm questioning the thickness of gold plating I put a small piece in a test tube and hit it with some nitric acid. If the plating is thick it comes off in a large chunk, while thin plating breaks up in small pieces.
> Another way is just put a drop of nitric on the surface and watch how fast it reacts. There is a couple of videos on youtube where Successful engineer is testing different plated boards with nitric acid.
> ...




Just watched successful engineers ENIG video. So I have the 14kt gold test kit which is not just nitric acid, but nitric and HCO combined. When I drop it on the plating, it takes about 3-4 minutes to start reacting in the manner in the video. .. do I assume this is not ENIG based on these findings?


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 3, 2017)

Could be that your test acid is old and not too reactive anymore


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## snoman701 (Aug 3, 2017)

reignofonebass said:


> Just watched successful engineers ENIG video. So I have the 14kt gold test kit which is not just nitric acid, but nitric and HCO combined. When I drop it on the plating, it takes about 3-4 minutes to start reacting in the manner in the video. .. do I assume this is not ENIG based on these findings?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Hard to say without a baseline of ENIG to compare to. Got old computer parts? Find visible gold plating that isn't a finger. 

I'll let Jon comment more on his methods, but I think he said that he doesn't process these himself. He contracts that out. The boards are incinerated in controlled conditions, then the ash and remnants are essentially melted into a metal component that is refined for the metals.


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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> Could be that your test acid is old and not too reactive anymore



It's definently not old, manufacture date is 4/16/17. And I peeled the plastic seal from the bottle. When dropped directly on copper, it reacts with a hellacious red cloud


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## anachronism (Aug 3, 2017)

Not entirely sure why you're doing an acid test. It's gold.


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## snoman701 (Aug 3, 2017)

anachronism said:


> Not entirely sure why you're doing an acid test. It's gold.



He's trying to determine the thickness of the gold, but it's too thick to react with the copper below. :lol:


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## anachronism (Aug 3, 2017)

snoman701 said:


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> ...



I thought I had already covered that but hey I guess if you ask enough people you'll eventually get the answer you want. Regardless of whether it's right or not. :lol:


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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

anachronism said:


> snoman701 said:
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LOL. Hey now, cut me a break, I got the Gold fever boss man lol


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## snoman701 (Aug 3, 2017)

anachronism said:


> snoman701 said:
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People don't trust you. 
On Edit: Let me be clear, this is a sarcastic comment in jest. If there is a takehome on this post, it's the last line!
You had said that, but other people told him it was just enig...because that's what everybody thinks any visible gold is.

I'm yet to find an occasion where you are wrong in what you share, you just limit what you share.


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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> anachronism said:
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For what it's worth. I think he's right. I got about 300g in an AP bath right now. It's breaking off in larger chunks, and also some smaller chunks. The 400ml it's in is littered with Gold right now. I'll send a pic when I get my gloves, suit, and respirator back on before I go into work


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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

reignofonebass said:


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Here is a pic of what I pulled off of one of the boards.











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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

reignofonebass said:


> reignofonebass said:
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And some more pics



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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

reignofonebass said:


> reignofonebass said:
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And some more






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## anachronism (Aug 3, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> People don't trust you.
> 
> You had said that, but other people told him it was just enig...because that's what everybody thinks any visible gold is.
> 
> I'm yet to find an occasion where you are wrong in what you share, you just limit what you share.



Well I think I've about heard it all now.


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## snoman70 (Aug 3, 2017)

anachronism said:


> snoman701 said:
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Bahaaa....not even close my friend. Not even close.


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## anachronism (Aug 3, 2017)

What does that mean? Please enlighten us all. You've chucked a pretty harsh accusation out there and then come back with a cryptic reply - from multiple accounts I might add, so please explain yourself.


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## g_axelsson (Aug 3, 2017)

reignofonebass said:


> Just watched successful engineers ENIG video. So I have the 14kt gold test kit which is not just nitric acid, but nitric and HCO combined. When I drop it on the plating, it takes about 3-4 minutes to start reacting in the manner in the video. .. do I assume this is not ENIG based on these findings?


I assume your test acid is nitric acid and HCl.

That test acid is dissolving gold too, so it will not react in the same way as the pure nitric acid successful engineer is using. You can use this test acid but you need a baseline to compare with.
For example using an old computer memory, the fingers are gold plated. And as an ENIG sample you can use any consumer grade board with golden solder pads.

Another way to test plating is to use a pencil eraser, it rubs off the gold and exposes the white nickel below. It takes some experimenting and experience but it is a simple and fast method used in the plating industry. And you need known samples to compare to in this case too.

High grade or low grade depends on the process the person is using, chemical costs, waste amount, how we value our time and so on. The large surface area that are gold covered and the plastic top BGA:s makes these boards good in amount of gold per board at the same time the large boards would be a lot harder to process compared to gold plated fingers.

A large refinery is recovering the copper too so the copper is a bonus. For the home refiner, even if we recover the copper it costs more to dissolve it than we get paid for the copper in the end, so the copper is a cost. Depending on your prices of chemicals, to recover the ENIG gold it might cost more than the gold is worth. In this case, selling the cards looks better all the time.

This type of boards is the sort I'm stockpiling, I don't care about processing it myself at the moment but I want to be paid for the full gold content so some day I will send out tons of boards to someone that pay on assay. I'm not yet there, but sometime in the future.

The difference between enig and gold plate can be seen in this thread. There were a couple of gold covered distances (probably enig) that I first dissolved in the test tube, it only produced a fine powder of gold on the bottom. Compare it to the plated finger and you realize quickly that the plating is a lot thicker.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=23737

If you want some easy gold, cherry pick the BGA:s and don't mess with the ENIG.

Göran


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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> reignofonebass said:
> 
> 
> > Just watched successful engineers ENIG video. So I have the 14kt gold test kit which is not just nitric acid, but nitric and HCO combined. When I drop it on the plating, it takes about 3-4 minutes to start reacting in the manner in the video. .. do I assume this is not ENIG based on these findings?
> ...




What dollar figure would you buy these for?

And I'll take some more pics tonight. Looks like the gold flakes are coming off in the HCI &a Hydrogen peroxide solution in about 1/16 - 1/8th inch pieces..


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## g_axelsson (Aug 3, 2017)

I can't give a dollar figure without testing a representative sample or I have to lowball the numbers.

Most of my scrap I get for free, several companies gives me their scrap if I just take it all, the good and the bad parts. I'm refining as a hobby so scrapping computers or sorting cables is fun and I'm not counting my time as a cost. In that case even the iron case from computers are an income.

The one time I've paid for scrap I paid a dollar a kilo for 100 kilo of graphic cards and other expansion cards.

I recommend that you look at boardsort or another company buying cards to get a feeling of what values are in scrap boards generally.

I would probably base a valuation on the amount of BGA:s and not on the visible gold. It's pretty but it would take a lot of time and money to get it out.

Göran


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## snoman701 (Aug 3, 2017)

reignofonebass said:


> What dollar figure would you buy these for?
> 
> And I'll take some more pics tonight. Looks like the gold flakes are coming off in the HCI &a Hydrogen peroxide solution in about 1/16 - 1/8th inch pieces..
> 
> ...



When I buy these, I buy them as the whole unit, in the aluminum case. I pay 0.30/lb for the entire unit. I then scrap the aluminum back out for about 0.33 / lb. I usually break even.

If I were to find some of these in the clean boards, my price ranges between 0.30/lb and 5.00/lb depending on who I'm buying from. 

Most likely, I'd be paying around $3.00 / lb cash. If check, I could probably do a bit more, but I am limited on my weekly allowance. Boardsort will pay telecom on them which is around $4.00 / lb, check. 

Now...if I could find some of the technicians that are uninstalling them, most would be very happy to sell me the entire units for 0.30/lb, as the yards are only paying them 0.09/lb. 

Frankly, 100's of lbs a week of boards is a lot of takeapart. Those things are buried behind a billion screws. I am fast, but takeapart gets old. I've always got a pile of it going. 

I lowball all my buys, and have to really want something before I'll pay more. Frankly, most of what I buy is 0.30/lb...I've just learned what hidden values are. All I have to spend is my weekly allowance. I'll pile the boards up until I have a bunch, then I'll toll them out.


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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> reignofonebass said:
> 
> 
> > What dollar figure would you buy these for?
> ...




I understand that, and yes, I get these out of the box and they are about 300 screws to get apart. 

Honestly, I love tinkering. I love learning new things. Chemistry is something I've always been interested in so this is right down my alley.

I've been separating aluminum / boards / copper.

One thing I can't identify is the modules themselves which appear to have a lot of silver. It's not aluminum because it's too heavy. And I know it isn't steel. It's shinier than polished aluminum.. may be a lot more cash there? 


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## snoman701 (Aug 3, 2017)

Post a picture. Is it magnetic?

Likely silver or nickel plated steel. 

Jon is probably right, these are silver plated on the inside. I don't actually have the radio cards...I had all the other modules in the rack, but not the radio cards. Theoretically, cleaning silver off from aluminum is really easy...you just dip in nitric acid. The aluminum is non-reactive, or at least reacts very slowly, so the silver is dissolved into silver nitrate. Problem is, the million and one screws to get all of the plated crap off. With silver only being worth 0.50/g, I can't see those million screws being worth the few grams I'd get. 

It has been rumored that there is solid silver in some of these though. Jon?? We may not trust you, but we are curious if you have you have an opinion. lol

So are you a tower climber, or just a tech guy? I'm still trying to figure out how to meet these guys around here!


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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> Post a picture. Is it magnetic?
> 
> Likely silver or nickel plated steel.
> 
> ...




I wish I had access to nitric acid. Can't buy it anywhere... would make my life much easier and I don't want to deal with agency's watching my every move lol

I manage all the guys who do the work on the tower and in the shelter. Used to be a site engineer before I was promoted. 

I'll send a pic when I get home


I'm including part numbers in the pics attached here. I have been able to find any documents indicating the specs on the plating for these boards. If anyone has resources I don't. Please let me know!















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## eastky2 (Aug 3, 2017)

Are you using a bubbler in the AP or just a bucket containing AP and stirring or shaking the bucket every so often?

Gold foils will hold together or breakup into small pieces depending on the amount of agitation of the liquid.

Little or no agitation the gold will come off in large pieces. Takes longer for the foils to release from the base metals. A lot of agitation and the foils will come off in smaller pieces and will release quicker.


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## eastky2 (Aug 3, 2017)

anachronism said:


> What does that mean? Please enlighten us all. You've chucked a pretty harsh accusation out there and then come back with a cryptic reply - from multiple accounts I might add, so please explain yourself.



Jon I don't think he meant any harm. I think you might of misunderstood the way he put his reply.

Putting all bickering aside. Even though I find you abrasive in some of your replies to people I do read all your post. 

I will say that you have learned the gold recovery from ewaste very well. 

I will say if you replied to a post and told someone to pass on trying to recover the gold from something you know what your talking about. If I come across the same thing I will pass it on.

All through this forum there are nuggets that people seem to pass on. I read all the post here. Just because someone doesn't have a lot of post on here doesn't mean they don't throw out a nugget every once in awhile.

Jon I want you to know the most important thing I have gained from you here on the forum is the following statement. When the people in the USA realize how much metals that are really in ewaste. 

Now people can go and search for that phrase. Thanks Jon


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## reignofonebass (Aug 3, 2017)

eastky2 said:


> Are you using a bubbler in the AP or just a bucket containing AP and stirring or shaking the bucket every so often?
> 
> Gold foils will hold together or breakup into small pieces depending on the amount of agitation of the liquid.
> 
> Little or no agitation the gold will come off in large pieces. Takes longer for the foils to release from the base metals. A lot of agitation and the foils will come off in smaller pieces and will release quicker.




No bubbler, just stirring every day. 


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## anachronism (Aug 4, 2017)

Thanks East. I hear you. I get a bit tetchy when my integrity is apparently questioned. I'm a lot of things but I'm not dishonest. 8) 

Jon


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## snoman701 (Aug 4, 2017)

anachronism said:


> What does that mean? Please enlighten us all. You've chucked a pretty harsh accusation out there and then come back with a cryptic reply - from multiple accounts I might add, so please explain yourself.



Oh Jon...you are much too sensitive today. Please see both of my posts:



> That was my point...I trust Anachronism's posts when it comes to thickness and value of the boards. I do believe them to be of value, greater than consumer great equipment.





snoman701 said:


> I'm yet to find an occasion where you are wrong in what you share, you just limit what you share.



Seriously Jon...no insults intended. I find your nuggets of information to be invaluable. I was honestly confused as to how so many people kept saying ENIG after you pointed out that you deal in tons of these boards, and that the coating is not ENIG. That motivated my sarcastic comment...when you posted so clearly that these are of value, and others kept calling them ENIG. 

I have a tremendous amount of respect for your abrasive personality...please remember that any time you may feel that I have rubbed you the wrong way.


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## anachronism (Aug 4, 2017)

Although it might be one of Butcher's "kiss my ass moments" I'm not sensitive more protective. :lol: 

Thanks for the explanation though I do appreciate it, and I will find a way to return the "favour" :twisted:


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## rickbb (Aug 4, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> Theoretically, cleaning silver off from aluminum is really easy...you just dip in nitric acid. The aluminum is non-reactive, or at least reacts very slowly, so the silver is dissolved into silver nitrate.



Wouldn't it be easier to put them in lye to dissolve the Al from underneath the silver coating? Then you would have metallic silver foils to wash and melt and not have to recover it from nitrate first.


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## etack (Aug 4, 2017)

rickbb said:


> snoman701 said:
> 
> 
> > Theoretically, cleaning silver off from aluminum is really easy...you just dip in nitric acid. The aluminum is non-reactive, or at least reacts very slowly, so the silver is dissolved into silver nitrate.
> ...



No a big part of the money in them is the Al. its high grade in big chunks. there's little money in them to start with $1.50-$3.00# it total metal value depending on sidewall thickness and plating thickness.

Eric

T


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## jrobison0307 (May 24, 2022)

anachronism said:


> The boards do yield well particularly the first board. Butcher these are boards from Ericsson or Nortel microwave Base stations 3G/4G.
> 
> I refine a lot of tonnes of these.
> 
> The plating is not necessarily as thin as you would think because the boards sell for many thousands of dollars each, and are designed for extremely low rates of failure. A few bucks of extra gold really isn't a concern in this application.


Any more information you'd like to share about these boards 5 years later


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## kurtak (May 24, 2022)

anachronism is no longer an "active" member here so you likely will not get an answer

Kurt


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## jrobison0307 (May 24, 2022)

Thanks brother, I appreciate that


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## jrobison0307 (Dec 11, 2022)

I have read this thread more than once to say the least. I have about 200 of these units, havent even had the seals broke on them, I have taken some apart over the years. I was hoping to learn but under circumstances I will be looking to get rid of them. Should I take them all apart and seperate the boards. Would someone here share with me what they would do in my case? Are would anyone be interested in some of them? Any response or advice would be greatly appreciated.


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