# Best mask available?



## JH123 (Mar 7, 2012)

What is the best brand and model of full face respirator available? I have a 2 week old 3m 6900, 6000 series, with p100 filters and wearing it I can smell chlorine, and even smell cigarette smoke when I walk within 3 feet of my buddy that smokes. The filters have less than 2hours use in them and the masks are new. Can anybody name a quality brand and model?


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## publius (Mar 7, 2012)

:shock: 
1. No cartridge respirator will protect you from nitric oxide(s).
2. A P-100 only protects you from particulates 0.03 microns and larger. The band is a magenta color.
3. There are cartridges that are meant for removing other acid gasses. The band is generally a mustard color.
4. A respirator that does not fit your face will not protect you. It should be fit tested by a qualified technician to an industrial hygienist to ENSURE that the mask will perform as intended.
5. Engineering controls (fume hood) should be in place before personal protective equipment (PPE) is employed. PPE (the respirator in this case) should be employed as a last resort!

My 0.02 USD!


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## philddreamer (Mar 7, 2012)

JH, when the respirator is not been used, it must be placed in a sealed container. If you don't, it loses its efficency by picking up "garbage" from the air, like a magnet. Your face must be clean shaven when using a respirator.

Check this set up on e-bay. I won another type, (like the ones firefighters use), on an auction for $56.00, then I came across this one. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380261092883?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I use MOLDEX #8200 cartridges on my respirator.

I hope it helps.

Take care!

Phil


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## Claudie (Mar 8, 2012)

If you can smell cigarette smoke while wearing it, it is either defective, it doesn't fit right, or it has a hole in it somewhere. :|


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## qst42know (Mar 8, 2012)

philddreamer said:


> JH, when the respirator is not been used, it must be placed in a sealed container. If you don't, it loses its efficency by picking up "garbage" from the air, like a magnet. Your face must be clean shaven when using a respirator.
> 
> Check this set up on e-bay. I won another type, (like the ones firefighters use), on an auction for $56.00, then I came across this one.
> 
> ...




There are a couple issues with cartridges you should be very aware of. They are limited to a small concentration of contaminate in the air, and must be disposed of after only 30 days from first exposure. You can't save them indefinitely. Storing them longer puts you at risk of bio hazards. Many infectious diseases would find a warm moist cartridge an ideal breeding ground even if stored in a clean bag. And the effectiveness of activated carbon will fade quickly once opened to the atmosphere. I think this would prove a very costly, risky, very limited option.

Be sure to read the data sheet.

http://www.moldex.com/respiratory-protection/reusable-respirators/8000/cartridges/index.php


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## AztekShine (Mar 8, 2012)

Carterages should be refillable. Because in this business with access to the ability activated carbon can be heated to burn off unwanted contaminates. I reuse my activated carbon by bakeing in oven. Tho I use it to filter my brewing projects. 

Jus thought I'd put that out their. I'll recearch if it's possable as to burning off acid's and such. 

It may be possable. Activated carbon is expensive.


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## JH123 (May 31, 2012)

Just an update to this thread. I now have the filters from 3m that have the mustard colored band and when smoke was blown directly into the filter, not the least bit of it was smelled. I now have more confidence in these.


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## publius (Jun 1, 2012)

JH123 said:


> Just an update to this thread. I now have the filters from 3m that have the mustard colored band and when smoke was blown directly into the filter, not the least bit of it was smelled. I now have more confidence in these.


Please read the acid gasses that the filter will absorb. It will not protect you from nitric acid fumes. Let me repeat that! It will NOT protect you from nitric acid fumes.


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## Dlog Renim (Jun 3, 2012)

does the moustard one would be good for h2so4 and hci and ap ?


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## publius (Jun 3, 2012)

Dlog Renim said:


> does the moustard one would be good for h2so4 and hci and ap ?


The answer is: maybe. Read the insert. Google the manufacturer's part number. Do not trust your health to a guess!


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## Golddigger Greg (Jun 14, 2012)

Is a mask of this type of any use to anyone? Would like to pass the good deal on these along to members, if of use.


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## Harold_V (Jun 15, 2012)

Golddigger Greg said:


> Is a mask of this type of any use to anyone? Would like to pass the good deal on these along to members, if of use.


Can you provide a little information on your offering, so we can better understand what it is? Looks like it uses a fresh air supply. Does it? Can you describe the hose that's visible, if not?
How much? How does one go about procuring one?

Harold


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## NobleMetalWorks (Jun 15, 2012)

Golddigger Greg said:


> Is a mask of this type of any use to anyone? Would like to pass the good deal on these along to members, if of use.



I could be wrong, but think this is what you have there.

I used to work for a pharmaceutical company, these type masks were hung in bright yellow boxes throughout the facility. The round disk on the side is a type of regulator like you find with dive tanks, to keep positive air flow and prevent any air being sucked back into the mask. They are meant to be used with a small pressurized tank that is about a quarter of the size of a dive tank, and is rated for at least 15 minutes of breathing time. Obviously bigger tanks would allow you to wear the mask longer. The problem with these masks is that they are only rated for 15 minutes, that means the regulator, and the material it's made out of, is not made out of material that is durable enough to stand up to very much. If you notice the mask is made out of either rubber or silicon and has no protective coating. We were told during training that if we had to use the mask, to evacuate immediately because the mask itself could degrade to a point it would not be effective, but that would be after the tank ran out of air.

Scott


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## Golddigger Greg (Jun 15, 2012)

I haven't bought these units yet; merely looking to outfit all the items I'll need to set up to refine safely and ran across these new (in original packaging) Drager R26279 full face masks. The hose is 2.5 meters, fittings attached. They are being sold as a lot of 30 units as surplus, but I'll need 10 at the most, leaving quite a few available for others. I've seen these (refurbished) on Ebay and other sites at $45.00 each.
I wanted to find out from members their thoughts on the usefullness before committing to buy and ship them to me. Cost to members would depend on my landed cost of course, but was thinking it would be in the $30 range. Here is another picture:


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## NobleMetalWorks (Jun 15, 2012)

I wouldn't use those masks when working with acids for several reasons...

First, if you are using the mask so as not to come into contact with fumes, you are going to be in for a rude awakening. You not only have to consider your entire face, but you have to consider the rest of your body, your arms, legs, clothing, everything. The corrosive fumes would eat at those parts of your body, and your clothing, the same as they would eat anything else metal or organic around you.

The mask you are showing is only a safety mask, that's why you found them in a huge lot. It's mean to be attached to a small tank so you can throw it on real fast, and breath long enough to make it outside, or to a safety area. It's not intended for prolonged use. The metal around the glass face would corrode, the rubber/silicon that makes up most of the mask would degrade and become brittle or jelly like depending on the material it's made out of.

Your hoses would not hold up under an acid fume attack either, nor the fittings, nor the buckles on the mask, I think you get the point here.

The only type of system that uses positive air flow that is going to work, if you are not using an enclosed reaction system or fume hood with air flow, is a fully enclosed suit. I worked for Johnson & Johnson making the Nicoderm patch. Pure nicotine is so deadly, and such a super solvent, that we had to wear suits, with positive air flow, that were silver lines along with silver lined gloves, and each time we had to use the bathroom or do anything else we had to wear a new suit. Back then, and we are talking when the Nicoderm patch first came out, each one of those suits cost $500. I have no idea what they would be today.

You are not going to find a Mask that is going to protect the rest of your body, your work area, yourself. I haven't found any mask or breathing apparatus for that matter, that would hold up to extended use around acid fumes. Even if you did, it would be so cost prohibitive that you wouldn't be able to sustain the costs no matter how much gold you were recovering.

Personally, and this is only my opinion, based on my own experience working with deadly substances, and recovering/refining precious metals, I would stop wasting time trying to find a mask to do what outside does better. If you are really concerned, look around and find a good fume hood, you can find them dirt dirt cheap if you just bide your time and keep looking. You can buy one 5000 L round bottom flask, a condenser, for right around $100 if you shop around, then all you need to do is build an apparatus that would scrub the fumes. There has been many many posts on how to do that with a fume scrubber, or just with lab glass and the correct connecting glass/tubing, etc.

If you watch any of the video's done by professional chemists that has to do with reactions that produce acid fumes, you will see that they don't even use masks. Also consider the hoses, the bulky-ness of the mask, the equipment it would need to be connected to and how it would affect your being able to pick up a beaker, set it down without sending it flying as soon as you turn one way or another because your hose lines batted it across the table.

A mask is not the right way to -protect yourself from acid fumes. HOWEVER, having these around in case you have a massive spill, or in case a reaction goes terribly wrong and you need to escape, would be a good idea. It could mean the difference between being able to breath and evacuate the area, or not being able to breath and trying to crawl your way out. Remember, these fumes are heavy and like to sink to the floor.

And thank you for posting better pictures of the masks. If anyone buys one of these, and need a container to hang it on the wall in, or they need the small air tank, I can get both, used, I'm nut sure what the price would be but I can put you in direct contact with the person who has the equipment and you can deal with them directly.

Scott

Scott


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## NobleMetalWorks (Jun 15, 2012)

I would also mention this. Wearing a big bulky mask might also give you a false sense of security and embolden you to make mistakes you otherwise might not have.

Scott


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## Golddigger Greg (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks Scott for the information! I've been studiously reading since joining the forum and have found that opinions and views expressed by you and others here are of extreme value; which is why I posted my query. I knew they (the masks) are of somewhat limited use, but not being 100% up on all regulations in all jurisdictions I thought that there may be a use for some members. If I do pick these up I'll post in the proper forum, of course. :wink: 
By the way, I love this place! ...back to Hoke...


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## butcher (Jun 15, 2012)

I wonder if the mask would work for dredging gold using an air compressor and small tank. 30 buck's sounds like a good deal.


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## NobleMetalWorks (Jun 15, 2012)

butcher said:


> I wonder if the mask would work for dredging gold using an air compressor and small tank. 30 buck's sounds like a good deal.



It might work for awhile, but the fittings and seals are all wrong, the metal would corrode over time, even with cleaning it really well. Once salt starts to corrode metal, it expands the fittings and it no longer can keep a seal.

Scott


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## butcher (Jun 15, 2012)

I dredge in fresh water, not the ocean, I believe I have seen some masks that looked something like those at the mining supply house, but they could be totally different.

Golddigger Greg, I can read the name Drager on the paper, would you have a model number or some other marking to identify the mask this company I believe made diving masks, as well as other gas masks.

For safety evacuation that thing seems like it would take time to get on and fit, and get the tank supplying oxygen, for a fifteen minute escape, I think I would be out of breath before I could get the mask was on.


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## NobleMetalWorks (Jun 15, 2012)

butcher said:


> I dredge in fresh water, not the ocean, I believe I have seen some masks that looked something like those at the mining supply house, but they could be totally different.
> 
> Golddigger Greg, I can read the name Drager on the paper, would you have a model number or some other marking to identify the mask this company I believe made diving masks, as well as other gas masks.
> 
> For safety evacuation that thing seems like it would take time to get on and fit, and get the tank supplying oxygen, for a fifteen minute escape, I think I would be out of breath before I could get the mask was on.



I'll tell you this, it's not easy. I believe it's actually an OSHA requirement if you are working in certain conditions, but I'm not totally sure. The tank is made to carry, not wear it's just the mask you have to slip on.

For fresh water dredging it might work, I just don't know enough about the mask to even made a good educated guess. And there is a possibility that they are not what I think they are, they could be something totally different, although they do look exactly like the ones I was trained to use.

I would be interested to know more about the masks myself. =)

Scott


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## butcher (Jun 15, 2012)

Oh OSHA, now that makes sense. 

Like wearing hardhats on top of a 1000 foot tower, poor guys below us were always running trying not to get hit from the falling hard hat, we would yell head ache to warn the ground crew when we dropped something.


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## philddreamer (Jun 15, 2012)

I bought a similar one some years ago to use while dredging in the cold, and found out that the "lens" or clear shield, makes everything look tiny under water. Definetly, some are be to used above water only, while others for underwater. :shock: 
If you plan to use it for dredging, try it in your bathtub first! :mrgreen: 

Phil


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## Golddigger Greg (Jun 16, 2012)

I've been looking for hours now through the Drager site trying to figure out what these are exactly. The model number isn't the R26279 my earlier post indicated, that is merely the part number for the 5-point head harness. The metal trim on the visor is stainless steel. The visor itself has three options available; polycarbonate, coated polycarbonate (for scratch resistance), or triplex which has high chemical resistance. The hose assembly is an option that would have been custom tailored for the specific use of the original buyer. I'll have to contact them on Monday to find out the specifics on these things by the looks of it.
Edit: I ended up traveling yesterday (18th) to pick up some servers and wasn't able to find out any more information on these, and they were already sold by the time I could phone again. The lot of 30 sold for CAN$895.00, so right about the $30 a piece I was thinking..., next time I guess! Greg


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## Golddigger1214 (Sep 24, 2020)

I'm wondering if anyone here could tell me if the 3m p100 60926 filter is sufficient when using the AP method for gold recovery from electronics. 

Specifically 3:1 hcl / peroxide on incinerated ic chips, mixed pins and fingers. 

I have an exhaust system with a scrubbing system set up, but wanted to be overly cautious so the mask was a must for me. Also, I'm looking to find a good lab supply company that provides both items like lab glass, filter paper, etc and chemicals as well. 

And lastly if anyone could please tell me how I can fix a mistake when precipitating the gold from my hcl / bleach mixture with sodium metabisulfite. Nothing happened other than the sodium metabisulfite sinking to the bottom. Well the color of the liquid turned a slight mustards olive greenish color. 

Thank you in advance for any answers and information.


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## philddreamer (Sep 24, 2020)

Same type I use...

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Multi-Gas-Vapor-Cartridge-Filter-60926-P100-60-EA-Case/?N=5002385+3294780252&rt=rud


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## Martijn (Sep 24, 2020)

Filtercartridges are for short term use. To clean up a spill e.g. 
The filter medium looses its filtering capacity fast atfer breaking the seal. You will have to renew your cartridge every day to be sure. Mabe more often, depending of the exposure to gases and capacity of the filter. 
The gold recovered could possibly yield less then the cartridges willl cost you. 

Keeping the HCL level low in AP will keep expelled gases low. As long as your fume hood is drawing enough air you will be fine. 

A 3:1 ratio HCL H2O2 can be too much to start with as H2O2 can dissolve your gold.


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## Golddigger1214 (Sep 24, 2020)

Thank you for your response. With regards to the hcl peroxide mix I have come to see what you are talking about. I now have luqid AP with lots of gold the size of dust. Its very pretty to look at, but I'm unsure of how to get the gold out of that specific liquid. Do I just filter and rinse, do I need to use zinc to get it out or sodium metabisulfite. What are my options here? I was thinking to add a little more hcl, but wanted to ask. Any response that is not negative is appreciated. 

Also, what do most use in their scrubbers? Activated charcoal, baking soda, urea.


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## Martijn (Sep 27, 2020)

You need to keep your gold in elemental form and all base metals in solution. Thats why you are using Copper 2 Chloride leach. Filtering trough a normal paper filter works fine. 

SMB is only used when gold is *in solution*. Meaning being dissolved and turned into auric chloride.
The SMB turns it back to metallic state gold. 

Zinc is something used with silver i believe. But its way to far from gold in the reactivity series to get a clean precpitate. Cementing is more a last resort or a recovery step. Not for final refining.


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## Martijn (Sep 27, 2020)

Sorry. Forgot to answer your questions... 
Yes. Just filter and rinse. Ready for another batch.

After that, just barely cover the filter and foils in HCL in a beaker. Or a scrubber flask set up. 
Genyly warm up to 40 or 50 degrees celsius. And add a few drops of nitric. 
Cover with a watchglass and watch and enjoy making yellow juice. If fizzing stops completely, add some drops of nitric and enjoy some more. Bubbles   :lol: i love watching it.
If almost all foils are dissolved, take the watch glass off to allow more evaporation of NO fumes. 
Cool the yellow juice close to freezing point and filter. 
Then drop with SMB. One gram of SMB for one gram of gold. 
Scrubber liquid: NaOH 10% or a H2O2 solution for nitric fumes. 

Martijn.


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## Golddigger1214 (Sep 28, 2020)

Ok that actually makes sense now. I think my problem is I don't have any nitric acid. I've strictly been using hcl/ peroxide then hcl/bleach. But from what I've read so far, nitric is the way to go. I think I'll hit the store tomorrow and pick up a little. Thank you so much. Not sure where this hobby will take me, but at least I know I've got competent people to turn to if I need help.


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## Martijn (Sep 28, 2020)

HCL & Bleach works fine for foils after AP. So i've read. No need to get nitric just for that. 
There are many different oxidizers for gold. I just use nitric, because i have enough for my study/hobby to last a couple more years. 
If you are inquarting karat gold, you'll need nitric. 

With nitric you can use too much and then you will need to neutralize before you can drop the gold. 

Martijn.


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## Golddigger1214 (Sep 29, 2020)

Ok thanks!


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## kainkelly (Sep 29, 2020)

I am glad I found this thread, saved me from buying something that would have not helped make work safer. (I was looking at a supplied air mask even though I will be working under a fume hood.)


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## Abdoulapapatte (Feb 24, 2022)

i would like to know why any mask can't protecte me against nitric acide 
thank you


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## Martijn (Feb 25, 2022)

There are NO(x) mask filters, but they will saturate at a given point. Depending on concentration levels. 
Before you start smelling fumes, you will have inhaled some. 
Masks are a corrective control measure. To clean up a spill e.g. 
You need preventive control measures. Like not creating a red cloud of NO fumes. Not adding too much nitric too fast is the most important one. 
Closed reaction vessels and scrubbing the fumes, having a fumehood to keep any accidentally escaped fumes away from you. 

Having to rely on a mask is a sign of poor chemistry practices. 

If you create a BFRC (big freaking red cloud) and you're 'safe' under a mask, think about who else will be exposed to that toxic gas once its blown out of your workshop or outdoor area? 
Be responsible and contain toxic gases. 

Prevention is the mindset you need to have. 

Martijn.


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## Martijn (Feb 25, 2022)

And once the sealed cartridge package is opened to the air, the lifespan will be very short. Days if you're lucky. So every day a new cartridge to be sure.


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## kurtak (Feb 25, 2022)

Abdoulapapatte said:


> i would like to know why any mask can't protecte me against nitric acide
> thank you



First you need to understand that the cartridges are nothing more then a very small fume scrubbers (which is why they are designed for one time use)

What fumes the cartridge will scrub depends on the scrubbing media in the cartridge - different media scrub different gasses

Nox requires it's own media

Most - if not all cartridges you buy at the local hardware store are not designed with a media to scrub Nox - that is because fumes from nitric acid is not common - so they are designed to scrub other gasses but not Nox (they are designed mostly to scrub the gasses from paint spraying or chlorine from swimming pool cleaners)

Because the cartridges are basically very small scrubbers - they also have very small amount of scrubbing media which in turn means very limited fumes can go through them before the media is saturated with gasses & then becomes ineffective in scrubbing more fume --- which is why they are designed for one time emergency use & NOT for on going &/or continued use

Edit to add; - you can get cartridges that will scrub Nox - but you wont find them at the local hardware store - you have to look for them (industrial suppliers) --- & they are still limited to *one time* use

Kurt


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## Zhazham (Feb 25, 2022)

I don't know if my approach for personal safety is totally wrong. I make reactions outdoors. In a place no other peoples are around. Adding nitric in small amounts at the time, walk at least 20 meters away and wait. Literally i'm in an island. I'm always wearing full face over pressure mask with 2 filters on my back. Filters are for acidic gases. 

I got this mask for free. It was previously used for renovating houses with possible asbestos. I changed filters for acidic gas filters and replaced dead battery with modern power box (10€). Few times wind whirls blow a little bit of fumes to my face but no harm was done as mask is blowing fresh air out from the mask. Nothing gets in. It is a type of Scott autoflow- mask.

But better never to turn my back on reaction vessel.


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## Martijn (Feb 27, 2022)

Zhazham said:


> I don't know if my approach for personal safety is totally wrong. I make reactions outdoors. In a place no other peoples are around. Adding nitric in small amounts at the time, walk at least 20 meters away and wait. Literally i'm in an island. I'm always wearing full face over pressure mask with 2 filters on my back. Filters are for acidic gases.
> 
> I got this mask for free. It was previously used for renovating houses with possible asbestos. I changed filters for acidic gas filters and replaced dead battery with modern power box (10€). Few times wind whirls blow a little bit of fumes to my face but no harm was done as mask is blowing fresh air out from the mask. Nothing gets in. It is a type of Scott autoflow- mask.
> 
> But better never to turn my back on reaction vessel.


Some things to consider:

What is the lifespan of the filters you've changed once opened? How long have you been using them? 

What is the NOX absorption capacity of a filter? How do you know you've reaced the limit? 

Do these 'acidic gases' filters include NO, NO2 and NOX, which is indicated by the international color code blue? 
If not, you're breathing NOX gases, thinking youre safe! 


Limit the production of fumes and contain or scrub the fumes. 

Masks are false safety!!!

Use proper techniques and equipment. 

Martijn.


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