# Obscure Gold Find- Electrum?



## scrappappy (Sep 14, 2016)

I recently picked this up as a scrap purchase, assuming it was at least 14K. It had some information with it about being an old "Celtic Money Ring" made from Electrum (Gold Silver Alloy), but since didn't know much about the subject I was just interested in buying it below spot. But when I had a chance to look into it some more under closer inspection, the surface does seem to have the consistency of something that could be quite old. Anyone familiar with this sort of thing? Or what the gold purity might be?


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## galenrog (Sep 15, 2016)

The problem with attempting to identify alloys based solely on images is the images. Based on what I see in the images provided I will offer the opinion that this is a silver plated item. The ends look a lot like copper in several of the images. Of course, should images of better quality with better lighting be posted, I could well change my mind.

Past time for coffee.


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## scrappappy (Sep 15, 2016)

Thanks galenrog. I took the pictures with some pretty bad lighting.. hadn't considered that. I'll try to take some more with natural light tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback


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## g_axelsson (Sep 15, 2016)

That surface looks cast and not as a genuine old object. Looking at how it's made I would think that the original object was hammered into a square thread and then twisted to make that form. In that process there wouldn't be any small nodules stuck to the surface. That is clearly an artifact from casting. (Small air bubbles on the surface of a wax model.)

Compare it to the surface of the ring on this page.
https://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/03/31/what-is-celtic-ring-money/

But to be sure I suggest you take it to an antiques or coin dealer for valuation.

Göran


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## scrappappy (Sep 15, 2016)

Thanks Goran! Under a magnifying glass it does look very much like what you described - like a square wire that was twisted around. I see what you mean about the nodules.. but the strange thing is that some of the nodules have like a pink-ish hue that looks kinda crystalized when looking at them closely. The knobs on the end of the ring are definitely more of a copper/brass color when looking in person. I tried to take a few more pics with hopefully better lighting. I think the twists in the texture can be seen a little better in the last pic. Here goes..


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 15, 2016)

The ends definitely look copper, as well as some of the edges of the twists.
Did you file a deep notch and see a color difference?
Test the streak and the filed spot?


It could just be the lighting playing tricks again though.
That is a pretty interesting piece though. I like it.
Hope you got a good deal on it


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## g_axelsson (Sep 15, 2016)

Is it just me or is the end covered by a small cap? It just looks more like a bad replica or homemade jewellery.

Now I noticed that the twisted part is striated in the "valley" of the twist, something you easily could get when making a square wax string and that is easily transferred over to the casting. I made that discovery when I cast my first gold ring, I had to polish off some finger prints from a flat surface.

Gold is a very noble metal and doesn't dissolve easily. Sitting in the ground wouldn't dissolve gold in one place and then crystallize in another spot. Just look at the surface of a hilt fitting that's been in the ground for the last 1300 years.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Flickr_-_portableantiquities_-_Hilt_Fitting.jpg

The more you show me the more convinced I get that it isn't an ancient object.

Göran


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## scrappappy (Sep 15, 2016)

Yes, the ends are capped with a different type of metal. It seems to be wrapped around the ends of the wire.

My question about the crystal like appearance of the nodules was in relation to impurities.. if that could possibly be part of a natural Electrum alloy? I guess in a more general sense, would a natural gold nugget have inconsistencies in the surface textures if it were stretched and twisted in a similar fashion. I only ask because if it was Electrum it would be unrefined it's natural state.

Thanks for the info about surface attributes being transferred over in castings. That's very helpful


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## goldsilverpro (Sep 15, 2016)

Maybe nickel plated copper. Doesn't look white enough for silver.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 15, 2016)

Read the wiki, it goes into great detail about electrum composition, natural and human made.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrum

An excerpted text:
"Electrum consists primarily of gold and silver but is sometimes found with traces of platinum, copper, and other metals. The name is mostly applied informally to compositions between about 20-80% gold and 20-80% silver atoms, but these are strictly called gold or silver depending on the dominant element..."

Seems like electrum would generally be a green gold, but in the wiki they say:
." It has also been produced artificially, and is often known as green gold. The ancient Greeks called it 'gold' or 'white gold', as opposed to 'refined gold'. Its colour ranges from pale to bright yellow, depending on the proportions of gold and silver."

Hope this helps


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## scrappappy (Sep 15, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> The ends definitely look copper, as well as some of the edges of the twists.
> Did you file a deep notch and see a color difference?
> Test the streak and the filed spot?
> 
> ...



Thanks Topher. I haven't filed into it yet.. just covering the bases to make sure it's not an artifact first.
The lighting isn't the best, i think i messed up using the black background it makes the colors look off. The edges are the same as the rest, i think it just caught a shadow or something
Didn't wager much for it, so no real worries here. It's been interesting reading about Money Rings in the meantime so it's been worth it either way.


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## scrappappy (Sep 16, 2016)




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## upcyclist (Sep 16, 2016)

Those look like casting artifacts to me as well. Museum gift shop replicas are also a common thing in people's jewelry boxes.


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## scrappappy (Sep 16, 2016)

I think you guys are probably right. I was looking at it some more under magnification and it does look like it was probably cast. It's a shame because the info slip that came with it had an asking price of $1,500 so I hope nobody paid anything close to that. The insert was from a coin shop in California that went out of business awhile back from what I could find online.
The weight does seem heavy for anything copper plated.. maybe tungsten or something along those lines. I think I'm just gonna break it in half to see what's inside but still trying to get rid of the "what if" thoughts before I do it. Breaking it should keep anyone else from going through the same trouble down the road. Anyway, thanks for the feedback gang!


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