# Help me about gold-copper cyanide process.



## tesaygo (Jun 18, 2017)

Hello, here in our country Philippines there are alot of source of gold-copper ore. But no one attempt to try new technique to process to recover gold on a high gold+copper ore. Most people in my country only knownhow to recover gold using MERCURY, AND FEW our CYANIDING. I only known basic procedure of cyanidation of gold ore. 

My my experience alot of CYANIDE WAS CONSUME during processing of gold-copper ore. Which is really dissapointment, i recover few grams of gold but expend too much on cyanide. So no one here in our country attemp to process GOLD+COPPER ORE.

CAN ANYONE HERE TEACH ME NEW TECHNQUE, PROCEDURE.... 

take note i am not a college graduate, i just love read that why i learn about it.

By the ways guyz, i already try leach the gold-copper ore in a sulfuric acid, then wash it to lowered the pH level, then leach it again in NaCN(cyanide). But it doesnt work...

Please teach me. Thanks


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## Lino1406 (Jun 18, 2017)

If you grind the ore and do panning - will you get a meaningful enrichment?


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jun 18, 2017)

Depending on the ore type, it may or may not lend itself well to direct cyanide leaching. Or it may need initial treatments. Sulfate ore is one, but, I have no first hand experience using cyanide, just what I have read in my books and on here.

Deano, goldsilverpro, and Anachronism are three gentlemen that have personal experience with cyanide leaching. Deano has over 40 years commercial ore leaching, GSP and Anachronism mainly work on electronics I believe, but they still have a wealth of wisdom when it comes to cyanide practice.


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 18, 2017)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> Depending on the ore type, it may or may not lend itself well to direct cyanide leaching. Or it may need initial treatments. Sulfate ore is one, but, I have no first hand experience using cyanide, just what I have read in my books and on here.
> 
> Deano, goldsilverpro, and Anachronism are three gentlemen that have personal experience with cyanide leaching. Deano has over 40 years commercial ore leaching, GSP and Anachronism mainly work on electronics I believe, but they still have a wealth of wisdom when it comes to cyanide practice.



Don't forget Reno Chris. 

Take me off the list. About 35 years ago, I spent a year and a half, almost daily, working with miners (assays, tests, etc.), and I vowed to never, never do it again. I kept my vow.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jun 18, 2017)

:lol: 

I don't think that type of people is strictly set to miners.

There are plenty of people that have that same mind set, who are in to "high grade/milspec" computer parts, and everything they have and touch is (of course) the best of the best. 

Which, when they send the stuff to be processed and find out that their estimate was off, we the refiner, are automatically the lying, stealing, cheating one. When in reality it comes down to lack of knowledge and/or not getting a proper sample and assay.

A bit off topic from the original post, but -back to it

I completely forgot about Reno Chris. He too would certainly be a wealth of knowledge to get you started, tesaygo.

I think all of the gentlmen listed though, would want assay information, and pictures of the ore. As well as much, much, more detail on it.


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## anachronism (Jun 18, 2017)

Topher my thanks. 

However I'm in the same position as GSP. My slight knowledge is based around e-scrap not mining. You're really down to Deano and Reno. Hey that rhymes!

In all seriousness it's a completely different approach, rather than different chemistry, Dean once described e-scrap to me as equivalent to concentrated ore product and the cap fits. The contaminants in e-scrap are also completely different to those in ore. 

Jon


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## tesaygo (Jun 18, 2017)

Lino1406 said:


> If you grind the ore and do panning - will you get a meaningful enrichment?



Yes after grinding or after ballmill we test it on panning if there a visible gold powder. And sometimes also with copper. So i need here how to her rid of copper.


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## tesaygo (Jun 18, 2017)

goldsilverpro said:


> Topher_osAUrus said:
> 
> 
> > Depending on the ore type, it may or may not lend itself well to direct cyanide leaching. Or it may need initial treatments. Sulfate ore is one, but, I have no first hand experience using cyanide, just what I have read in my books and on here.
> ...




Thanks i will contact them, but maybe you can just teach me HOW.


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## geedigity (Jun 18, 2017)

That is easy. To contact either Reno or Deano, simply search out their names and when you find them, select their name and select pm and send them a pm. It is pretty easy once you do it.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jun 18, 2017)

Not a whole lot of CN using members it seems! But, the ones we have that do use it, are at the top of the game.

One day I will have a segregated section of my lab devoted to cyanide processes, but right now I am far from that point. I have read a great deal about it, but compared to actually *doing it*, that isn't even close!
I just want to be 100% sure that I have all of my ducks in a row, and know as much as humanly possible before I start playing in that field.

Heck, by that time, you may have your all inclusive system up and running and being produced for the masses, Jon. Which, by the way, I still eagerly watch that thread looking for production updates.

Tesaygo, until you hear from the CN veterans of the forum, I can suggest a couple good pieces of literature that will help get you a better understanding of ore and the cyanide process as a recovery method.

:arrow: Cyanide Practice by Von Bernewitz 

:arrow: The Metallurgy of Gold by Sir TK Rose 

:arrow: ..there is another book I have, but it is a pamphlet and untitled. I may end up scanning and loading a pdf if you need further information

**Links** 
:arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=22668&p=237971#p237971

:arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22978&p=268822#p268822

Those are a couple good threads by Deano, I dont have Reno's threada bookmarked anymore, as my laptop and phone both died within a couple weeks of each other.


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## Deano (Jun 19, 2017)

There are two types of copper bearing gold ores.

One type is cyanide leachable for gold with very little copper leaching. The recoveries of gold from these ores are often dependent on fine milling and the form of the gold mineralisation, some of these ores will cyanide well for gold with low cyanide consumption.

The other type is cyanide leachable for gold with leaching of most of the copper as well. These ores are often but not always secondary ore types.
In these ore types the gold is generally encapusulated by the copper minerals and is not available for cyaniding until all of the copper mineralisation has been removed.

The simplest method of recovery is flotation to get a float concentrate containing most of the gold and copper. This concentrate is then sold to a smelter.

A second method of recovery is VERY DEPENDENT on the ore type, it is most definitely not a universal method.

A vat leach is run using a very low cyanide level (around 50ppm) at very high pH (12 - 13). A lot of optimisation is required to get the best CN level and pH for the particular ore.

This is a very slow leach but it has the effect of leaching very little copper, it does, however need a lot of time to operate so the need for a vat leach.

There are a lot of pre-leaches using ammonia etc. but these are not even remotely something I would recommend for a small scale beginner type operation.

Deano


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## tesaygo (Jun 19, 2017)

Deano said:


> There are two types of copper bearing gold ores.
> 
> One type is cyanide leachable for gold with very little copper leaching. The recoveries of gold from these ores are often dependent on fine milling and the form of the gold mineralisation, some of these ores will cyanide well for gold with low cyanide consumption.
> 
> ...



Thank you Deano, do you have knowledge about flotation process, so i can recover gold-copper ore. I only knew cyanidation process, but on flotation zEro at all. What chemical need to be use? How much chemical need to be use per ton of gold copper ore. Things need to be observer during processing. Etc.

Deano can i get your email, so you can teach me more. About flotation and some cyanidation technique. Or maybe you can visit our country, i well tour you.


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## anachronism (Jun 19, 2017)

Dean sets up flotation plants commercially in many countries worldwide so if you're willing to pay his commercial fees then I'm sure he would help.


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## tesaygo (Jun 19, 2017)

anachronism said:


> Dean sets up flotation plants commercially in many countries worldwide so if you're willing to pay his commercial fees then I'm sure he would help.


  why do i need to pay for his commercial fee is i can make him my business partner which he can earn more money that what i should pay for his commerial fees. As long as his flotation process of gold-copper ore is really working for this situation for sure we can earn many money  because we dont have any competeror here. NO ONE HERE HAS INTEREST ON GOLD-COPPER ORE.


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## 4metals (Jun 19, 2017)

I suggest you spend some time studying, based on what is on the news about the current political climate in the Phillipines, I doubt you could get a consultant to travel there no matter how luctative a deal it seems to be.


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## Deano (Jun 19, 2017)

Much as the Phillipines is a lovely country, I have absolutely no desire to travel there in the near future.

To learn how to run a float plant you really need to spend some time at an operating plant with a competent owner/operator.

At my stage of life I have seen enough of these plans where all that it needs is some of my expertise and possibly a lot of my money. Not interested.

However, if you want I am still happy to advise from a distance.

My first preference would be to extract the copper by heap leach or vat leach and recover the copper on steel scrap in a Kennecott cone or similar.

This is not the quick leaching step you might expect, there is an initial flush of high tenor copper in the sulfuric acid but after that there is a long leach and copper recovery stage. The advantage of this sulfuric leach system is that the whole thing can be run with little more than commonsense, a pH meter to keep the pH just above 1 and basic equipment in the pumping and leach pad areas. Do not think that the leach cycle will be finished in a couple of days, weeks if not months will be required.

After the copper extraction phase has finished the heap is turned alkaline with a lime or caustic treatment and then cyanided.

Deano


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## Mr.c (Aug 19, 2017)

Looks like you and i had the same problem. Since you being in Philippines and me being in same neighbouring third world country, i believe legality issues and environmental factors for dumping chemical waste is not a problem.

My head ore was with <0.5% copper content. You'll need to pre-treats the ore powder with diluted sulphuric acid first with addition of hydrogen peroxide and let it drain. Just keep topping up your tank with sulphuric acid until the discarded liquid is approximately p.H 4. Take a 100ml sample of said liquid waste and drop some NaOH. You should see some precipitate. If you noticed light blue precipitate, that means you still have copper in the ore. BUT! Fe2oh precipitate also looks blueish but darker(slightly greener?) so you need to get used to it first. When you are confident that no more copper is left in the solution, rinse the ore powder with water until you are sure that no more residual acid/salt is left.

Repeat the same steps with nitric acid. This time without H2O2. That should clear out most of the metals that would interfere with cyanide leaching. Only after that, proceed with your cyanide leaching. 

Thats what I did since i have no economical value for the rest of the minerals in ore except Au. Thats true for at least where i live. It all comes down to whether pre-treating with said acids is profitable to you or not. In my country 40kg sulphuric acid 98% only cost about 30 us$. If the rest of the members would like to recommend me methods of collecting the other minerals, please feel free but flotation method is far from my reach. Also I'm still learning as i go so if you see any mistakes, you are welcome to educate me. Cheers!

My head ore contains zinc, high amount of fe though I never got it assayed.

Mr.C OUT!


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## Aeon13 (Aug 30, 2017)

Interesting post Mr. C

May I asked some questions:

1. why are you adding hydrogen peroxide in your pre treat solution?

2. are you using vat leaching method?


Thanks Mr. C


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## Iggy-poo (Aug 30, 2017)

Aeon13 said:


> Interesting post Mr. C
> 
> May I asked some questions:
> 
> ...


Adding Hydrogen Peroxide will convert sulfides to sulfate, thus generating more sulfuric acid and freeing up the metal ions.


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## Reno Chris (Sep 1, 2017)

As Deano says, there are different types of copper - gold ores and there is no one universal treatment that works well with all of them. If the ore is oxidized, then that will be harder (minerals like Azurite, malachite, chrysocolla, etc.). The only thing I could suggest is a good acid pre-leach to capture the oxidized copper, but he says he has already tried that and it didn't work. I dont know if Tesaygo really understands the chemistry on this, and that is a major problem. Perhaps the problem could be solved, but not knowing all I can say is it is not a simple 1,2,3 and your done process. All sorts of other factors come into play, the size the material is crushed to, any other metal contaminants, how well it was leached, what was used to raise the pH before cyanide was added, how the pH is controlled during cyanide leaching, etc. Mixing acids and cyanide is deadly. 
You dont float oxidized copper ores, you float to capture sulfides. In an unoxidized ore you capture all the sulfides (normally mostly a mixure of pyrite and chalcopyrite in many copper ores) and smelt them, separating out the gold, silver and other metals in the copper refining phase after smelting. This may not be of much use to tesaygo even if what he has is unoxidized sulfide ore unless he has a copper smelter nearby that will take concentrates on a custom basis. 
In any case, its not a super easy thing to do. There is a reason why no one is looking at the copper-gold ore - the extraction is difficult. I know of a decent deposit here in Nevada of oxidized copper-gold ore and it sits unworked because its too expensive to work it if you need to do a double leach with acid first then cyanide.


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## tesaygo (Sep 7, 2017)

Reno Chris said:


> As Deano says, there are different types of copper - gold ores and there is no one universal treatment that works well with all of them. If the ore is oxidized, then that will be harder (minerals like Azurite, malachite, chrysocolla, etc.). The only thing I could suggest is a good acid pre-leach to capture the oxidized copper, but he says he has already tried that and it didn't work. I dont know if Tesaygo really understands the chemistry on this, and that is a major problem. Perhaps the problem could be solved, but not knowing all I can say is it is not a simple 1,2,3 and your done process. All sorts of other factors come into play, the size the material is crushed to, any other metal contaminants, how well it was leached, what was used to raise the pH before cyanide was added, how the pH is controlled during cyanide leaching, etc. Mixing acids and cyanide is deadly.
> You dont float oxidized copper ores, you float to capture sulfides. In an unoxidized ore you capture all the sulfides (normally mostly a mixure of pyrite and chalcopyrite in many copper ores) and smelt them, separating out the gold, silver and other metals in the copper refining phase after smelting. This may not be of much use to tesaygo even if what he has is unoxidized sulfide ore unless he has a copper smelter nearby that will take concentrates on a custom basis.
> In any case, its not a super easy thing to do. There is a reason why no one is looking at the copper-gold ore - the extraction is difficult. I know of a decent deposit here in Nevada of oxidized copper-gold ore and it sits unworked because its too expensive to work it if you need to do a double leach with acid first then cyanide.




Thank you sir Reno,
Sir Deano give me an advise to pre leach in acid the copper-gold ore first, using H2SO4 maintaning a pH level of 1-2, then after acid treatment to remove copper, wash the ore with water to remove all acid left on ore, then adjust the pH for cyanidation process.

By the way what you mean about "You dont float oxidized copper ores, you float to capture sulfides. In an unoxidized ore you capture all the sulfides" are you refering on floatation? 
Sir Reano do you have any idea or suggestion for treatment of copper-gold ore, any other process. I only know how to process using cyanidation.

Thanks alot


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## Mr.c (Sep 11, 2017)

Aeon13 said:


> Interesting post Mr. C
> 
> May I asked some questions:
> 
> ...



Sorry about the late reply. Been busy with work. 

To answer your first question, what Iggy said is right. The idea is to convert the sulfides to sulphur or sulphates. Theoretically h202 aid in removing sulfide metals and there are some papers available for that process which i can't recall.

For the second question, yes. I'm using vat leaching method. 

As for the OP: what Dean might have told you could be the same process as what I'm doing. Maybe do some small scale leaching (eg. 5kg grounded ore) with different ratios of acid pre treatment to find out which works for you. As Reno said, this acid pretreatment doesn't work with oxidized minerals so keep that in mind. 

Just as a reference, currently my head ore seems to increasing in Cu content and have to use about 17kg/ton of nitric acid 68% concentrate.


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## tesaygo (Sep 11, 2017)

Mr.c said:


> Aeon13 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting post Mr. C
> ...



Hello Mr. C
Do you use nitric acid to pretreatment your gold-copper ore as you mention here? What do you think is the best to use H2SO4 or nitric acid, i know that nitric is more expensive than h2so4, but nitric dissolve alot of none valuable metal but also dissolve Silver, unlike h2so4 dissolve selected minerals. 
By the way, can you illustrate how do you operate your VAT leaching, i like to know more what else i need to improve and try which is better way to maximize the extraction of gold. Lets help each other.


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## Iggy-poo (Sep 11, 2017)

tesaygo said:


> Mr.c said:
> 
> 
> > Aeon13 said:
> ...



Some thoughts about the use of Nitric Acid Leach:

The main thing is that it is illegal here because miners used it in the past and cause severe long-term damage to the environment.
Just because it's legal to discharge untreated waste doesn't mean you should. If you can't make a decent living by properly treating your waste, you should find another line of work.
Nitric Acid will also dissolve elements like Palladium, which is a potent carcinogen. People drinking the water downstream will suffer the consequences.
Neutralizing Sulfuric Acid leach and recovering the Copper and other metals should more than pay for the cost of treatment and release mostly harmless Sodium Sulfate.
Neutralizing Nitrate leach will release Nitrates into the environment and make it more difficult to recover the Copper.
Be a good citizen and study the consequences of your actions.


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## tesaygo (Sep 11, 2017)

Iggy-poo said:


> tesaygo said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.c said:
> ...



Hello Iggy,
I agree that improper disposal of acid such as nitric and sulfuric really can harm people and our environment, most local miner here in our country doing that, due to lack of knowledge on proper disposal. Not only in disposal but also lack in knowledge in processing or recovering precious metals. Its really hard to educate them.  very hard.

But i am aware of proper disposal of acid but i dont dispose my acid instead we re-use and re-use and re-use.
Does anyone here know if there is a solid or powder form of sulfuric acid? I really hard to transport a liquid form of sulfuric acid. And nitric acid just asking.
Thanks Iggy


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## Iggy-poo (Sep 11, 2017)

Hi,
You can use Sodium Acid Sulfate (NaHSO4). It's like partially neutralized Sulfuric Acid, but in a powder or pellet form. Folks who carry pool supplies usually carry it. In pools,it's used to lower the pH. I use it often and it works well.
If you set up an electrolytic recovery cell, it would strip the Copper and rejuvenate your Sulfuric acid, which could be recirculated.
If you don't have electricity, a couple of Solar Panels could be used instead.
No need to use a pump to recirculate, just use an aquarium pump to inject air into your return line. Like they do with an aquarium. it will carry the rejuvenated acid and aerate it at the same time.


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## Aeon13 (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr.c said:


> Sorry about the late reply. Been busy with work.
> 
> To answer your first question, what Iggy said is right. The idea is to convert the sulfides to sulphur or sulphates. Theoretically h202 aid in removing sulfide metals and there are some papers available for that process which i can't recall.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the answer Mr. C.Appreciated. 


I get the feeling that we are using almost the same methods of leaching gold. You are using vat leaching 

which is what the majority of people use here. And yeah the government is not strict at all in terms of 

chemical disposal. It's good we have this forum for us to know the proper way of dealing with wastes.


I will just ask some questions about your methods for me to compare and learn new things that you are 

doing there which maybe is better since we are in an almost the same situation.

1. Are you using zinc dust to precipitate your gold?

2. Are you doing your assays yourself?

3. Are you using Stannous Chloride to test your cyanide solution for possible gold left?

I don't have access for assays as of the moment that is why I am not sure what other elements are present 

in the ores here. I hope to find soon.

Thanks Mr. C!


For the OP. 

I agree with Tesaygo when he says that many miners are really hard to educate. Specially if these miners 

are older than the one teaching. They think that their experiences are all they need. Plus the government 

are not regulating them. The rivers are the waste dumps. So sad.


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