# Things you do BEFORE you process an ore



## MadScientistProspect (Jan 22, 2019)

Ok so I'm new to Au chemical recovery and extraction.

I've been reading up on various methods and I've seen the warnings about NOT using any acids on ores before knowing what's in them.

But I'm confused on what my next step is.

I'm in the golden triangle of Victoria and I've got access to a good range of likely ores almost all of which contain large amounts of iron. Arsenic can be an issue and there are a bunch of sulphides in the mix as well.

I know I need to climb the learning curve but I need some direction on where to go next.


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## nickvc (Jan 22, 2019)

I’m not a mining or ore expert but my advice would be to get good assays done to find out exactly what you have in the mix, this will identify any risks you might encounter and also help point you in the right direction for recovery if worthwhile. Ores are not the easiest material to work with due to the mix of elements they contain some of which will interfere or even stop economic recovery, most mining operations use cyanide to recover the gold but even they may have to carry out further processes before attempting a cyanide leach.


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## Lino1406 (Jan 22, 2019)

Next steps:
Have an XRF or ICP assay
Grind to 100 mesh


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## MadScientistProspect (Jan 23, 2019)

One of the things that I find odd on this forum is the repeated suggestion to get an assay done.

I find this odd because (I presume) most of the refiners here are backyard guys or at most small scale. Instead of refining the gold bearing material you collect why not send it off for processing by a professional? 

The openness to sharing and learning methods to refine on a small scale seems at opposed to learning how to develop methods to assess ore prior to refining.

So I guess what I'm saying is.....ok I need to know what I'm dealing with how do I do that? What assay methods do I use? How do I interpret the none gold results?


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## anachronism (Jan 23, 2019)

Well first you need to be able to test for the kinds of metals that you're digging up.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jan 23, 2019)

For basic tests you can perform yourself, read through Quick Qualitative Testing of Rocks and Ore. It's not a substitute for a proper assay, but it can give you some insight.

Dave


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## MadScientistProspect (Jan 23, 2019)

Thanks Dave I'll have a look


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## nickvc (Jan 24, 2019)

Assays are an important part of any mining operation, there are field tests to help identify various elements as Dave has pointed out but you still won’t know what you have in terms of recoverable values or what elements can cause you harm or worse.
Most of the members are working with e scrap where the gold is plated so recovery can be done by sight or they are processing materials where there is an average to aim for, with ores there is no average as such as each mine has different material and element make up.
You can learn to assay yourself and buy the necessary equipment to do so but it won’t be cheap and it takes time and determination hence why we suggest getting assays for ores done before people either waste a lot of time and possibly money or harm themselves by processing toxic elements.


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## Palladium (Jan 24, 2019)

Assays are recommended so you don't kill yourself!
Arsenic would be one reason to have an assay!
Ask Irons.


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## anachronism (Jan 25, 2019)

From a purely financial point of view assays are essential. 

Picture the scene:

Hey I'm sending you 10 tonnes of cons to process.
Great how much gold?
No idea just let me know how much you got.
OK will do (runs off sniggering and rubbing hands.)


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## acpeacemaker (Jan 25, 2019)

Then there was salting.


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## MadScientistProspect (Jan 28, 2019)

anachronism said:


> From a purely financial point of view assays are essential.
> 
> Picture the scene:
> 
> ...



Kind of a stupid example. Who would go to the effort of extracting 10 tonnes of ore or actually more ore than that if you are talking about some sort of concentrate without knowing how much was in it.


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## anachronism (Jan 28, 2019)

MadScientistProspect said:


> anachronism said:
> 
> 
> > From a purely financial point of view assays are essential.
> ...



You'd be amazed at how many people believe they can do exactly that.


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## acpeacemaker (Jan 28, 2019)

anachronism said:


> MadScientistProspect said:
> 
> 
> > anachronism said:
> ...



This guy is a good example. Wound up in the end with arsenic poisoning. 
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=23782&p=251244#p251244

Andrew


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## MadScientistProspect (Jan 28, 2019)

acpeacemaker said:


> This guy is a good example. Wound up in the end with arsenic poisoning.
> https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=23782&p=251244#p251244
> 
> Andrew



I appreciate your concern Andrew but since I identified arsenic as a potential risk for some of the ores I have access to it doesn't really help pointing it out again and again and again.

A useful test or method to determine which have arsenic and which don't. That would be a big help.


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## MadScientistProspect (Jan 28, 2019)

anachronism said:


> You'd be amazed at how many people believe they can do exactly that.



Seriously? 

Gathering more than a sample for testing seems kind of crazy.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jan 28, 2019)

MadScientistProspect said:


> I appreciate your concern Andrew but since I identified arsenic as a potential risk for some of the ores I have access to it doesn't really help pointing it out again and again and again.


Usually, when someone tries to help me, I just say thank you.




> A useful test or method to determine which have arsenic and which don't. That would be a big help.


I gave you a link above.

Dave


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## Shark (Jan 28, 2019)

Gold Fever can and will run rampant very often.


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## MadScientistProspect (Jan 29, 2019)

FrugalRefiner said:


> MadScientistProspect said:
> 
> 
> > I appreciate your concern Andrew but since I identified arsenic as a potential risk for some of the ores I have access to it doesn't really help pointing it out again and again and again.
> ...



And I'm going through it Dave. Your post was/is helpful but a bunch of people saying over and over again beware of arsenic isn't.

I'm hoping to get a body of information from different sources not just rely on one so I'm looking for more information. I wouldn't want to rely on just one link for something like this.


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## nickvc (Jan 29, 2019)

I know from your responses that you don’t want to hear about assays but they are the most important part of your approach to what you have, as pointed out if done correctly they will tell you how much gold you have and what other elements are present, these other elements can be toxic and some can make recovery of the gold uneconomic. There are certain ores which are high grade but because of other elements just can’t be mined economically, if Deano were to add comments to this I’m sure he could give much more detail than I ever could he really understands mining and recovery of gold from ores which in fairness I don’t.
Knowing by testing what you may have in the mix is a good start but certainly not something to gamble your hard earned money or health on, I know we all sound miserable doubters but it’s for a good reason we don’t want anyone hurt or worse or lose all their money chasing nonexistent or uneconomic values.
The simple truth is that until you have an assay done you cant formulate a plan to recover any gold you may have, had you had free gold then it would make formulating a plan for recovery much easier but from what you are implying that’s not the case.


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## anachronism (Jan 29, 2019)

As Nick said - and to add to that:

An assay will not only tell you what you've got but it also helps you to decide HOW you are going to recover the gold, and the precise method depends upon the other other metals and compounds present.


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## MadScientistProspect (Jan 29, 2019)

anachronism said:


> As Nick said - and to add to that:
> 
> An assay will not only tell you what you've got but it also helps you to decide HOW you are going to recover the gold, and the precise method depends upon the other other metals and compounds present.



I never said I didn't want to hear about assays. 

What I don't want to be told is to "get an assay done".

What I'm looking for is learning how to do the testing myself which includes assaying methods.


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## galenrog (Jan 29, 2019)

Dave posted this on the 23rd. 


FrugalRefiner said:


> For basic tests you can perform yourself, read through Quick Qualitative Testing of Rocks and Ore. It's not a substitute for a proper assay, but it can give you some insight.
> 
> Dave



You replied that you would take a look.



MadScientistProspect said:


> Thanks Dave I'll have a look



Time for more coffee.


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## nickvc (Jan 29, 2019)

MadScientistProspect said:


> anachronism said:
> 
> 
> > As Nick said - and to add to that:
> ...




No disrespect but you will need very deep pockets to perform the assays for all the elements that could be present, I applaud your desire to learn more to help you in your quest and learning how to test for certain elements will be a great asset but you have to be realistic and accept that you will struggle to do all the work yourself or any cheaper than a lab set up to do exactly what you are proposing.
I think we all wish you well and would love to hear of your successes in the future as we seem to have very few of them from our mining members, whether that’s because they are just keeping a low profile or because they failed I don’t know.


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## rickbb (Jan 29, 2019)

The field tests that Dave pointed to will tell you if you have any gold to bother with before embarking on learning how to assay. Even though it's a single link, it is a compilation of many years of skilled professionals on this forum. Just like the tutorial section. Very few of us home/hobbyists have the knowledge or experience to add to those links. So when some one points you to them, you can bank on it being one of, (if not the), best places for you to start anywhere on the internet.

Can save you more than a little time and money.

Another option is to see if you can get a job or internship with a local company that does assay's. Then you can learn literally everything about assays with someone else's equipment and get paid for doing it too. Who knows there may even be an old timer near you that will take you under their wing and teach you.


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## acpeacemaker (Jan 29, 2019)

Actually, I wasn't saying anything about arsenic other than the fact in the end this individual got it. I was agreeing about the people's or persons that get fever so bad they'll invest the time and effort to take 10 tons of crap rock without knowledge of whats in it. (Whether they lose money, or give away money.) Hence why an assay(s) is important. 

I understand you would like the first hand of how to do certain testing with the criteria of assays yourself. I saw someone point out there is a lot of money in just the start of that. True. Also another said maybe an internship or something similar. Also true, but good luck. Why? People forget this isn't just science and chemistry. Its an art form. (Not everyone can be an artist)I'm not saying this as a discouragment or to be a jerk, but just a fact and different perspective of looking at things. 

I work for an underground assay lab for the largest producing sulphide/telluride gold mine in Colorado. Internship was not there but when I first started with trucks to climb the ladder. I was lucky and befriended an old timer. Quite a few I've come acrossed in the general field usually have their own setup at home. There's an old saying "artists never stop never stopping."

Dave's link is spot on.

Since arsenic is already on the table, and I haven't seen anything about it yet. This mine's specific lab hiring contract requires extensive bloodwork testing twice a year. Just another thing to think about in processing ore. Its not cheap and to be honest I hate it. Its not just a flu shot.

Good luck on the venture,
Andrew


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## MadScientistProspect (Jan 29, 2019)

Update on my progress.

I've found some assays from the local area and a bunch of other information.

That has pointed me at some low hanging fruit.

A bunch of relatively recent sedimentary layers with around 0.100 to 0.250mg/kg in the screened material <100um (ie with the large gravel and sand fractions removed.). 

Pros: 
1. no arsenic or sulphides.
2. free gold just very very fine
3. screening can be done while processing for larger free gold with gravity separation. 

Con: 
1. Masses and mass and masses of iron.
2. Gold is in the recirculating slurry and handling that material without loss is tricky.


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