# I'm REALLY new



## Macker (May 1, 2012)

Hi all,

Ok Iv never done any kind of refining, or know much about chemicals. I'm looking to start doing some refining at home on the side. So I'm looking for info on cheap kits, chemicals and best guides and tips of what to do. Will be much appricated by my good self.


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## Geo (May 1, 2012)

start with this free download, read it well and reference it often.http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs


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## FrugalRefiner (May 1, 2012)

Macker,

Welcome to the forum! 

You can learn everything you need to know about recovering and refining precious metals right here on this forum. You will have to work for it though. There is much to know to do this safely so you have a lot of studying ahead of you. 

Geo has provided a link to an excellent refining book - it's considered to be sort of a bible around here. I would also recommend taking the Guided Tour created by lazersteve.

Take some time to get familiar with the forum's format and learn to use the search functions to find answers to questions. If you get stuck or don't understand something, just ask.

Dave


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## twisted77 (Jun 7, 2012)

im trying to figure out the simplist way of processing my black powder. do i have to desolve it??? or can i just dilute it with water add some baking soda untill it can be filterd and let dry??? or does it have to be desolved? and what is the simplest way? thanks for any responses.... Bruce


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## jimdoc (Jun 7, 2012)

twisted77 said:


> im trying to figure out the simplist way of processing my black powder. do i have to desolve it??? or can i just dilute it with water add some baking soda untill it can be filterd and let dry??? or does it have to be desolved? and what is the simplest way? thanks for any responses.... Bruce




How did you get this black powder? A sulphuric cell?

Jim


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## twisted77 (Jun 7, 2012)

jimdoc said:


> twisted77 said:
> 
> 
> > im trying to figure out the simplist way of processing my black powder. do i have to desolve it??? or can i just dilute it with water add some baking soda untill it can be filterd and let dry??? or does it have to be desolved? and what is the simplest way? thanks for any responses.... Bruce
> ...




Yes Jim


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## Geo (Jun 7, 2012)

dissolve the powder with hcl/Cl. hcl (muriatic acid) can be bought at any hardware store and Cl (household bleach) can be bought at any supermarket. add the hcl first (just enough to cover the material) and then add the bleach a few drops at a time (a dripper works good for this). chlorine gas will be evolved, so do this outside and away from people and plants of interest. stop adding when the powder is dissolved. solution may be green if it is contaminated. this is of little importance at this time. allow the solution to sit out uncovered overnight so the chlorine can evaporate. when you get back to it, filter the solution through a couple of coffee filters to remove any trash into a clean glass vessel and double the volume of solution with water. add SMB (sodium metabisulfite) in a solution of water. if you have 10 grams of powder, add 10 grams of SMB. stir well. watch for a reaction. if the solution is very contaminated (very green) you may not see a change. wait a few hours and the gold should be in a brown powder on the bottom of the vessel. follow with the correct washes and rinses and perhaps repeat the dissolution and washes and rinses for really pure gold.

good luck


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## twisted77 (Jun 8, 2012)

Geo said:


> dissolve the powder with hcl/Cl. hcl (muriatic acid) can be bought at any hardware store and Cl (household bleach) can be bought at any supermarket. add the hcl first (just enough to cover the material) and then add the bleach a few drops at a time (a dripper works good for this). chlorine gas will be evolved, so do this outside and away from people and plants of interest. stop adding when the powder is dissolved. solution may be green if it is contaminated. this is of little importance at this time. allow the solution to sit out uncovered overnight so the chlorine can evaporate. when you get back to it, filter the solution through a couple of coffee filters to remove any trash into a clean glass vessel and double the volume of solution with water. add SMB (sodium metabisulfite) in a solution of water. if you have 10 grams of powder, add 10 grams of SMB. stir well. watch for a reaction. if the solution is very contaminated (very green) you may not see a change. wait a few hours and the gold should be in a brown powder on the bottom of the vessel. follow with the correct washes and rinses and perhaps repeat the dissolution and washes and rinses for really pure gold.
> 
> good luck




thank you jim. i was hoping i would not have to do that being in an apartment(fumes) but thank you for the help much appreciated Sir.


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## Harold_V (Jun 8, 2012)

twisted77 said:


> i was hoping i would not have to do that being in an apartment(fumes) but thank you for the help much appreciated Sir.


You were talking with Geo, not Jim. Both are great guys!
You can simply melt the black powder, but I do not recommend that course of action. It isn't pure gold, and will be all the more difficult to process once melted. If your objective is to sell the resulting product, you may get just as much from an impure button as you would one refined to high purity. Let your objective make the decision for you, but, remember, gold that is already finely divided (the black powder) is very easy to dissolve as compared to a button. 

Harold


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## twisted77 (Jun 8, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> twisted77 said:
> 
> 
> > i was hoping i would not have to do that being in an apartment(fumes) but thank you for the help much appreciated Sir.
> ...




Opps Didnt Realize That. Sorry GEO Thank You For Your Advice Sir!!! And Yours Aswell Harold. So Harold You Suggest Doing What GEO And Jim Said? Its Just That Im Worried About Fumes In The Apartment. And Being New To This It Freaks Me Out Abit. I Want To Learn More Than Anything Though. Someone Told Me To Mix Black Powder And Borax 50/50 And The Impurities Would Rise To The Top In The Melt. And Once Cooled Can Be Tapped Off With A Hammer (Slag)??? Not Sure If This Is True. But I For Sure Want The Pure Gold. So Im Stuck On What To Do??? Thanx For The Input Though Its Nice To See That People Care And Are Willing To Share There Well Earned Info!!! Thanx Bruce


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## Geo (Jun 8, 2012)

Bruce, never process with chemicals in your living space. if a fume hood isnt an option, at least do it outside, maybe at a family members house or a close friend you can trust. if you follow my directions, there will be some chlorine gas, too much for indoors in a living space but very little when done outside. what ever you decide, be sure you understand what you are doing and a good expectation of the outcome.

you cant refine gold with just borax.


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## twisted77 (Jun 8, 2012)

Geo said:


> Bruce, never process with chemicals in your living space. if a fume hood isnt an option, at least do it outside, maybe at a family members house or a close friend you can trust. if you follow my directions, there will be some chlorine gas, too much for indoors in a living space but very little when done outside. what ever you decide, be sure you understand what you are doing and a good expectation of the outcome.
> 
> you cant refine gold with just borax.





ok. Thank You GEO. Where Would You Get sodium metabisulfite from? and i guess you can handle and wieght the gold powder? so you can add the right amount of sodium metabisulfite.


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## jimdoc (Jun 8, 2012)

You can get sodium metabisulfite from a wine making supply store.

Jim


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## twisted77 (Jun 8, 2012)

jimdoc said:


> You can get sodium metabisulfite from a wine making supply store.
> 
> Jim





Thank You Jim.


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## twisted77 (Jun 8, 2012)

Geo said:


> Bruce, never process with chemicals in your living space. if a fume hood isnt an option, at least do it outside, maybe at a family members house or a close friend you can trust. if you follow my directions, there will be some chlorine gas, too much for indoors in a living space but very little when done outside. what ever you decide, be sure you understand what you are doing and a good expectation of the outcome.
> 
> you cant refine gold with just borax.





So GEO, should i filter the black powder and let it dry. and then follow your steps to desolve with muratic acid and clorox etc?


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## Geo (Jun 8, 2012)

i dont filter gold powder. it ties up gold in the filter. let the powder settle for as long as it takes for the solution to become clear, then slowly pour the solution off into another glass container. you said its from a sulfuric stripping cell. place a glass container in a glass plate and gently pour the acid from the cell into the container. try to leave all the powder in the cell. leave a small amount of acid with the powder (you cant pour it all off without pouring off the powder). add a couple hundred ml's of water to another glass container that can withstand high temps like a coffee pot or lab beaker, slowly add the powder with the small amount of acid to the water. this will create quite a bit of heat so go slow and keep checking. depending on the volume, it can bring the water to a boil quickly.

let this sit a couple of days for the powder to settle. follow with a couple of water rinses letting the powder settle each time. on the final rinse, decant water down to the powder and you are good to go with the refining part.


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## twisted77 (Jun 9, 2012)

Geo said:


> i dont filter gold powder. it ties up gold in the filter. let the powder settle for as long as it takes for the solution to become clear, then slowly pour the solution off into another glass container. you said its from a sulfuric stripping cell. place a glass container in a glass plate and gently pour the acid from the cell into the container. try to leave all the powder in the cell. leave a small amount of acid with the powder (you cant pour it all off without pouring off the powder). add a couple hundred ml's of water to another glass container that can withstand high temps like a coffee pot or lab beaker, slowly add the powder with the small amount of acid to the water. this will create quite a bit of heat so go slow and keep checking. depending on the volume, it can bring the water to a boil quickly.
> 
> let this sit a couple of days for the powder to settle. follow with a couple of water rinses letting the powder settle each time. on the final rinse, decant water down to the powder and you are good to go with the refining part.




Ok GEO So do this above first. then go to the muratic acid and clorox part that you told me yesterday. and then you can melt your powder. and then the powder should be a tan or brown color i am assuming. Thank you so much for sharing this with me GEO. its hard for me to ask people for help, i truly do appreciate it all you guys!!!


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## Geo (Jun 9, 2012)

yes, this part is called recovery. when you use the stripping cell, you are recovering gold from gold plate. it will always be contaminated from this process. refining follows recovery. you refine by dissolving the gold along with any impurity's and then precipitating just the gold and (hopefully) leaving the impurity's behind in the solution. SO2 gas (sulfur dioxide) will precipitate the gold from solution selectively, meaning it will precipitate the gold and leave the other metals in solution. we use sodium metabisulfite or sodium sulfite (do not mistake this for metabisulfate or any other sulfate) a source of this chemical is "Bonide" brand stump remover. do not get "spectracide" brand as it is a different chemical. be sure to read the label before using, it must contain sodium sulfite. another chemical that will selectively precipitate gold is "copperas" (ferrous sulfate). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/copperas
many members use this chemical.it is sold in most home improvement stores in the lawn and garden center.

after you dissolve the gold using the muriatic acid and clorox and let the chlorine evaporate out of solution, you will use either of these chemicals to precipitate the gold from solution.you can dissolve the gold and precipitate it over and over and each time it gets more pure leaving impurity's behind. though normally two dissolution's and following Harolds wash's and rinse's will have you producing pure gold quickly.


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## maynman1751 (Jun 9, 2012)

> after you dissolve the gold using the muriatic acid and clorox and let the chlorine evaporate out of solution, you will use either of these chemicals to precipitate the gold from solution.*you can dissolve the gold and precipitate it over and over and each time it gets more pure leaving impurity's behind. though normally two dissolution's and following Harolds wash's and rinse's will have you producing pure gold quickly.*



Follow these extra steps that Geo has pointed out. The washing and re-refining are important if you want a quality product. Otherwise your gold will still be contaminated and not nearly as valuable.


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## twisted77 (Jun 9, 2012)

Geo said:


> yes, this part is called recovery. when you use the stripping cell, you are recovering gold from gold plate. it will always be contaminated from this process. refining follows recovery. you refine by dissolving the gold along with any impurity's and then precipitating just the gold and (hopefully) leaving the impurity's behind in the solution. SO2 gas (sulfur dioxide) will precipitate the gold from solution selectively, meaning it will precipitate the gold and leave the other metals in solution. we use sodium metabisulfite or sodium sulfite (do not mistake this for metabisulfate or any other sulfate) a source of this chemical is "Bonide" brand stump remover. do not get "spectracide" brand as it is a different chemical. be sure to read the label before using, it must contain sodium sulfite. another chemical that will selectively precipitate gold is "copperas" (ferrous sulfate). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/copperas
> many members use this chemical.it is sold in most home improvement stores in the lawn and garden center.
> 
> after you dissolve the gold using the muriatic acid and clorox and let the chlorine evaporate out of solution, you will use either of these chemicals to precipitate the gold from solution.you can dissolve the gold and precipitate it over and over and each time it gets more pure leaving impurity's behind. though normally two dissolution's and following Harolds wash's and rinse's will have you producing pure gold quickly.




Ok Thank You Sir. I Appreciate Your Wealth Of Knowledge And For Sharing With A Complete Stranger... Thank You Thank You Everyone. You Guys Rock. Have A Great Weekend. And Ill Let You No The Out Come!!! Bruce


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## twisted77 (Jun 9, 2012)

twisted77 said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > yes, this part is called recovery. when you use the stripping cell, you are recovering gold from gold plate. it will always be contaminated from this process. refining follows recovery. you refine by dissolving the gold along with any impurity's and then precipitating just the gold and (hopefully) leaving the impurity's behind in the solution. SO2 gas (sulfur dioxide) will precipitate the gold from solution selectively, meaning it will precipitate the gold and leave the other metals in solution. we use sodium metabisulfite or sodium sulfite (do not mistake this for metabisulfate or any other sulfate) a source of this chemical is "Bonide" brand stump remover. do not get "spectracide" brand as it is a different chemical. be sure to read the label before using, it must contain sodium sulfite. another chemical that will selectively precipitate gold is "copperas" (ferrous sulfate). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/copperas
> ...


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## lazersteve (Jun 9, 2012)

Check out this post and follow the links therein:

Washing Gold Powder

Steve


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## Geo (Jun 9, 2012)

when you precipitate the gold powder from the first dissolution, it will still be contaminated due to a process called "drag down". it is a physical process that happens near the end of the precipitation where the gold will "drag down" base metal from solution as it precipitates. decant solution down to the powder.add water to the powder to fill half the container. bring this to a boil, this will dissolve any water soluble salts. boil for a few minutes and let the solution cool. decant down to the powder. repeat this rinse. next add water to one quarter of the container and add to the water fresh hcl to complete one half fill of the container. bring this to a boil, continue to boil for 15-30 minutes. do not allow to boil dry. remove heat and allow to cool. decant down to the powder. if the hcl discolored on the first boil, repeat until the boil stays clear.next rinse with water, bring to a boil, remove the heat and allow to cool. repeat this rinse. next, add ammonium hydroxide and water 50/50 to fill half the container and bring to a boil. this is to remove certain salts and traces of silver chloride. remove heat and allow to cool and decant to powder. next, follow with 2 water rinses and 1 hcl rinse followed by 1 water rinse. 

i know it sounds like a lot to do. but think about it this way, how pure do you want your gold and how much are you willing to do to get it pure.


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## twisted77 (Jun 9, 2012)

Geo said:


> when you precipitate the gold powder from the first dissolution, it will still be contaminated due to a process called "drag down". it is a physical process that happens near the end of the precipitation where the gold will "drag down" base metal from solution as it precipitates. decant solution down to the powder.add water to the powder to fill half the container. bring this to a boil, this will dissolve any water soluble salts. boil for a few minutes and let the solution cool. decant down to the powder. repeat this rinse. next add water to one quarter of the container and add to the water fresh hcl to complete one half fill of the container. bring this to a boil, continue to boil for 15-30 minutes. do not allow to boil dry. remove heat and allow to cool. decant down to the powder. if the hcl discolored on the first boil, repeat until the boil stays clear.next rinse with water, bring to a boil, remove the heat and allow to cool. repeat this rinse. next, add ammonium hydroxide and water 50/50 to fill half the container and bring to a boil. this is to remove certain salts and traces of silver chloride. remove heat and allow to cool and decant to powder. next, follow with 2 water rinses and 1 hcl rinse followed by 1 water rinse.
> 
> i know it sounds like a lot to do. but think about it this way, how pure do you want your gold and how much are you willing to do to get it pure.




Ya it does. but i have to learn it. so this process is the first out of the sulphuric cell before muratic and clorox process or after this process? just trying to put all the pieces together in the right order. sorry Geo This Has Turned Into A Book for you and i feel bad bro. But i want it right the first time you no what i mean? thanx Geo I Think We Must Be getting to the end just have to have it all in order...


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## martyn111 (Jun 9, 2012)

twisted77 said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > when you precipitate the gold powder from the first dissolution
> ...



The washing process starts as Geo mentioned, after the first precipitation of gold powder, meaning after you have dissolved the gold and selectively precipitated it from solution. 
Therefore, the process starts after the hydrochloric acid / bleach and precipitation process


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## Geo (Jun 9, 2012)

the washes and rinses will be after you dissolve the powder and precipitate the gold back out of solution.
1. reclaim the gold using sulfuric cell.
2. collect powder and separate from acid.
3. refine the gold powder by dissolving the gold and precipitate it back from solution.
4. purify the refined gold powder by washing and rinsing impurities from the powder.
5. further refine the gold by a second dissolution and precipitation.
6. further purify by washing and rinsing impurities from refined powder.

if your goal is to acquire gold to sell to a refiner, reclaiming the gold from the cell and melting will work because they will refine it anyway.

if you want to refine gold to a pure state to horde as a hedge or treasure for later generations, then you will need to refine the gold yourself or pay to have it done.


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## twisted77 (Jun 10, 2012)

Geo said:


> the washes and rinses will be after you dissolve the powder and precipitate the gold back out of solution.
> 1. reclaim the gold using sulfuric cell.
> 2. collect powder and separate from acid.
> 3. refine the gold powder by dissolving the gold and precipitate it back from solution.
> ...





Ok Awsome Thank You Geo. You Have Helped Me And My Family Tremendously!!! Thank You To Everyone. This Forum Is A Treasure!!! And I Am Definitely Keeping My Gold for Hedge. Maybe Sell Some But Not All. And Keeping All My Silver... You Guys Are very kind! God Bless All Of You And Your Homes. Bruce


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## twisted77 (Jun 10, 2012)

martyn111 said:


> twisted77 said:
> 
> 
> > Geo said:
> ...




Thank You Martyn...


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## twisted77 (Jun 10, 2012)

twisted77 said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > when you precipitate the gold powder from the first dissolution, it will still be contaminated due to a process called "drag down". it is a physical process that happens near the end of the precipitation where the gold will "drag down" base metal from solution as it precipitates. decant solution down to the powder.add water to the powder to fill half the container. bring this to a boil, this will dissolve any water soluble salts. boil for a few minutes and let the solution cool. decant down to the powder. repeat this rinse. next add water to one quarter of the container and add to the water fresh hcl to complete one half fill of the container. bring this to a boil, continue to boil for 15-30 minutes. do not allow to boil dry. remove heat and allow to cool. decant down to the powder. if the hcl discolored on the first boil, repeat until the boil stays clear.next rinse with water, bring to a boil, remove the heat and allow to cool. repeat this rinse. next, add ammonium hydroxide and water 50/50 to fill half the container and bring to a boil. this is to remove certain salts and traces of silver chloride. remove heat and allow to cool and decant to powder. next, follow with 2 water rinses and 1 hcl rinse followed by 1 water rinse.
> ...




Geo the final HCL rinse you have at the end is it just pure HCL? or is it diluted with water? and you dont ever boil completely dry right? always should have some liquid left to decant off the powder correct? you are only boiling for a few minutes at a time is what i have gatherd. thank you Geo


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## Geo (Jun 11, 2012)

the last hcl wash serves two purposes. it acidifies the solution after the ammonia wash, and removes any traces of copper oxide that may have made its way past the first hcl washes. it can be diluted as can the previous hcl washes. because muriatic acid in the states is almost as concentrated as you can get, you could safely dilute with water 50/50.never let any washes or rinses boil dry. the objective is not to evaporate the solution and any wash should not go that long. you should be mindful and never leave these processes unattended. setting a time limit to the washes is frowned upon by Harold (he is the man that pioneered the sequences) the washes should be continued until the solution stays clear after boiling.


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## twisted77 (Jun 11, 2012)

Geo said:


> the last hcl wash serves two purposes. it acidifies the solution after the ammonia wash, and removes any traces of copper oxide that may have made its way past the first hcl washes. it can be diluted as can the previous hcl washes. because muriatic acid in the states is almost as concentrated as you can get, you could safely dilute with water 50/50.never let any washes or rinses boil dry. the objective is not to evaporate the solution and any wash should not go that long. you should be mindful and never leave these processes unattended. setting a time limit to the washes is frowned upon by Harold (he is the man that pioneered the sequences) the washes should be continued until the solution stays clear after boiling.




Ok Thank You. And Dont Worry I Would Never Leave It Unattended Geo. Thank Sir Now I Will Read This Hundred Times And Then Go Get Some Gold... I Cant Wait!!! Thanx Geo


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## saifudin (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi Geo, 

I am very new here. Can I use either Sodium Metabisulfite and Sodium Sulfite to precipitate gold? Any Do's and Don'ts in selecting either one? Thanks


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## tek4g63 (Jun 13, 2012)

saifudin said:


> Hi Geo,
> 
> I am very new here. Can I use either Sodium Metabisulfite and Sodium Sulfite to precipitate gold? Any Do's and Don'ts in selecting either one? Thanks



I believe either one can be used and they both work the same way. I believe the"blondie"brand stump out that several members use is sodium sulfite. If you have a local place that sells supplies for wine making I believe you can purchase sodium meta bisulfite, at least that is what I have heard other members post.

I personally made the rookie mistake and bought chemicals from a company called "Shor". Lucky for me I found this great forum before I used any of them! (actually found GRF while waiting for my shor purchase to arrive at my house). Shor would not let me return my purchase so for now I use their over priced, relabeled, SMB. Be smarter then me, while your new don't buy anything until you have studied,and re-studied exactly what your planning on trying. Good luck!


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 13, 2012)

Although I have used SMB quite a few times, I usually used sodium sulfite. They both work well.


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## Geo (Jun 13, 2012)

hey Thad, thats "Bonide" stump out.


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## tek4g63 (Jun 13, 2012)

Thank you geo. My phones auto correct strikes again.


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## tolwagen (Jun 20, 2012)

Geo said:


> start with this free download, read it well and reference it often.http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs


Where can I download and print this book for free?


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## maynman1751 (Jun 20, 2012)

tolwagen said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > start with this free download, read it well and reference it often.http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs
> ...


I think that you can download it right from the url that was posted.


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## jimdoc (Jun 20, 2012)

This post has a direct link to download Hoke's book;

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8547&p=79774&hilit=hokes+book#p79774

Jim


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## tolwagen (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks guys, you're awesome. I have literally started with this recovery experiment only a week ago, and haven't even really looked into which chemicals etc to buy - I'm still in the process of pulling out pins and finding the best ways to do this. So I am VERY happy to have stumbled upon this website, and I'm sure we'll be seeing lots of each other!


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## jimdoc (Jun 21, 2012)

tolwagen said:


> Thanks guys, you're awesome. I have literally started with this recovery experiment only a week ago, and haven't even really looked into which chemicals etc to buy - I'm still in the process of pulling out pins and finding the best ways to do this. So I am VERY happy to have stumbled upon this website, and I'm sure we'll be seeing lots of each other!



You are doing great by reading Hoke's book right from the start. Just take your time and know what you are doing before you do it. Study the forum also, to learn tips for ways with easier to find chemicals. And don't forget to show us pictures of your gold.

Jim


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## tolwagen (Jun 21, 2012)

Busy downloading the book as we speak. Any other relevant literature which I can download for free? I really need to get more knowledge into all of this - I know you guys get some "ready made" chemicals there in the States, but I'm in South Africa - still have to do my mixes etc manually


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## jimdoc (Jun 21, 2012)

tolwagen said:


> Busy downloading the book as we speak. Any other relevant literature which I can download for free? I really need to get more knowledge into all of this - I know you guys get some "ready made" chemicals there in the States, but I'm in South Africa - still have to do my mixes etc manually



Look through the book section there are links there for many different titles.

Jim


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## tolwagen (Jun 21, 2012)

Ok, Downloaded and saved. Let the reading begin!


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## butcher (Jun 21, 2012)

I have bought the book, spent around 60 dollars, it was worth every penny, I love my little C.M. Hoke book. it is so much easier to read in bed at night than a stack of printed paper off the computer.

Now If I could get this huge stack of printed paper from the computer in my living room (about refineing metals) put into a small book my wife would be happy.


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