# Pyrolysis,Sn removal,AP,HCL/Cl



## AztekShine (Mar 5, 2012)

This will be my first attempt! I will succeed no dout. I want to make a complete log but didn't really know where to put it. So I figured this must be the place! I am beginning with my flat packs stored inside smoking boxes for smokeing meats with hardwood powder. And burning them in a smoker huh go figure...I am goinng to leave the lid off and use the body of the smoker like a flue to produce a draft as to increase heat. Thought about a leaf blower but can't afford one yet but this may work fine. I plan on running the boxes once and then when the coal is finished stiring the boxes if I have to and going again hopefully that will do the trick.

Thanks,
Will


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## maynman1751 (Mar 5, 2012)

I hope that you never plan on using that to cook meat on again!!!! :shock: Careful there! Poisons will be released during incineration!


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## ericrm (Mar 5, 2012)

i cant wait to see your result , i suggest to anticipate a way to contain the black fume if your fire isnt hot enuf


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## philddreamer (Mar 5, 2012)

Will, I would keep the cover on & make a couple of holes, one were you can introduce a torch as an afterburner to burn & take care of most of the smoke, the second for some exhaust. 
I'm sure you'll be doing this outside & you don't have neighbors too close... it will stink if you don't burn ALL the smoke! :mrgreen: 

The boxes are S.S.?

Take care & be safe!

Phil


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## AztekShine (Mar 5, 2012)

I will be covering the stainless steel boxes in charcoal ergo covered boxes. I never have used this smoker really have no use for it.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 5, 2012)

I wonder if you could take the lid off and put a weed burner somehow across the top or, maybe, a little into the top? Sort of an afterburner to burn those nasty pyrolysis gases.

I think this is what happens with pyrolysis. Correct me if I'm wrong. As everyone knows, it takes oxygen to burn most anything. When you get organic materials hot enough, with not enough oxygen present to make them burn, the volatile ingredients will vaporize, leaving behind carbon, mainly. This is called pyrolysis. If these very combustible off-gases are too confined and too concentrated and, if any oxygen (air) is allowed to co-mingle with them, the temperature will increase dramatically and an explosion can occur. 

These explosions occur mainly when people are trying to confine the off-gases and condense them to produce an oil. When circuit boards were phenolic and, I heard, contained 40% phenol oil ($40/gallon at the time), I remember people talking (never heard of anyone actually doing it) about using pyrolysis. I knew a guy in Oregon that was pyrolyzing tires. In between explosions, he got a drum of oil (and a lot of fine steel wire and carbon black) from a ton of tires. These systems must be 100% sealed, with zero possibility of air entry.

We're not after any oil, so we can use an afterburner and burn these nasty, toxic, stinking off-gases. 

To pyrolyze openly, the parts must be somewhat confined in preferably a steel box. There must be holes large enough to let the off-gases freely escape into the afterburner, yet not so small that the off-gases can build up in the box. Keep in mind that, the higher the temperature, the faster the generation of off-gases.

After everything that's going to vaporize has vaporized, you can remove the box lid and burn the carbon to white ash. This will allow you to get to the metals.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 5, 2012)

AztekShine said:


> I will be covering the stainless steel boxes in charcoal ergo covered boxes. I never have used this smoker really have no use for it.



I wouldn't cover the holes. You want to release the off-gases, not trap them.


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## AztekShine (Mar 5, 2012)

Why would I put paraphernalia across the top? :lol: No really what is a weed burner..man?

Aaahh yeah I just googled it sry but I couldnt resist. Ya I was looking at them in tractor supply. That would work.

So ya think I should 86 the body and just put the lid on the base?

Edit: posting whyle a poster was posting now re posting


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 5, 2012)

AztekShine said:


> Why would I put paraphernalia across the top? :lol: No really what is a weed burner..man?
> 
> Aaahh yeah I just googled it sry but I couldnt resist. Ya I was looking at them in tractor supply. That would work.
> 
> So ya think I should 86 the body and just put the lid on the base?



They're about $40.

I would keep the body but remove the lid. That way, the off-gases will be channeled into the burner.


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## AztekShine (Mar 5, 2012)

What about spraying lighter fluid every now and then. That should do it.


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## Geo (Mar 5, 2012)

the problem with that is this, have you ever put charcoal lighter on a BBQ that wouldn't light properly? if so, how long did it take for your eyebrows to grow back? if you put lighter fluid on the material while its still hot, it will flash combust and perhaps hurt you badly.


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## stihl88 (Mar 5, 2012)

Should be good enough for the mother in-laws steak to be cooked on! While the chips are in their of course 8)


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## AztekShine (Mar 5, 2012)

Geo said:


> the problem with that is this, have you ever put charcoal lighter on a BBQ that wouldn't light properly? if so, how long did it take for your eyebrows to grow back? if you put lighter fluid on the material while its still hot, it will flash combust and perhaps hurt you badly.



Yeah don't try this at home kids.


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## maynman1751 (Mar 5, 2012)

stihl88 said:


> Should be good enough for the mother in-laws steak to be cooked on! While the chips are in their of course 8)


 :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 5, 2012)

Why do you need more lighter fluid? Don't you have glowing coals under the pan?


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## AztekShine (Mar 5, 2012)

I don't have a propane torch/weed burner at the moment. And I figure it will act as an after burner of sorts.With a similar burn surface area as a weed burner. Not as hot tho.


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## AztekShine (Mar 5, 2012)

Ok here we go I'm doing this... See y'all in a couple hrs.


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## AztekShine (Mar 5, 2012)

Wow that was a lot more smoke than I thought would be produced...

Here you go first picture is the 2 batches of coal, I wanted to get as close as I could to incenaration so I put coals on top also as you see in picture two. Picture three is me trying to afterburn with naptha...I think you need between 4 and 6 weed burners to even begin to touch the smoke. It was aweful for about 10min reduced by half for 5more min. and they have been roasting now for 1.5hrs total. I am going to inspect the boxes of chips now.


Ok aparently photos from my ipod are in valid. I will try to load them tomoro from my pc at work. Their in jpeg. At the moment.


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## AztekShine (Mar 5, 2012)

Here's the chips. Even the ones that are still black are chrispy enough to break with the slightest tap. This is good I supose.


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## manorman (Mar 5, 2012)

If you go to the internet and look up how to bulid a Wood Gas generator i think the same set up would work great on Chips, it might even work on whole boards.
FEMA has PDF file on the internet on how to run a car or tractoer with wood gas, i think you could run a gas engine on the gas poduced from the flat packs. 
And if gas prices keep going up you might want to run your car on wood gas,Just a thought.


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## AztekShine (Mar 5, 2012)

manorman said:


> FEMA has PDF file on the internet on how to run a car or tractoer with wood gas, i think you could run a gas engine on the gas poduced from the flat packs.
> And if gas prices keep going up you might want to run your car on wood gas,Just a thought.



The first part was genius but the latter freakin brilliant! I have studied wood gas genarators. And do believe that it would work. I like to think I could be driving around and breaking down flat packs at the same time for free! :twisted:


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## AztekShine (Mar 7, 2012)

So I crushed the chips tonite and am soaking the crushed chips in HCL to remove the tin and what I belive to be some zinc I found in one of the chips. I have never reacted tin before only zinc in HCL. Ill post a pic of a piece of what I think may be zinc and let y'all see what you think. The metal was verry soft. Much softer than I belive tin would be.


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## etack (Mar 7, 2012)

where is all the powder that the gold. the burnt chip resin has the wires.

have you read any post on this.

you should have sold that smoker on craigslist and bought some equipment.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=12631&hilit=chips+flat+packs

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13081

This is just in the last few months.

Eric


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## AztekShine (Mar 7, 2012)

etack said:


> where is all the powder that the gold. the burnt chip resin has the wires.
> 
> have you read any post on this.
> 
> ...




Yep those post are what I have been following. Also patnor's PDF. The only difference between what Phil and I did was soak in HCL first. In my pics that is only about 10-15 chips. That smoker worth bout $15 used. How did you do your last batch of chips Eric? I would apreciate some first hand experience. And some equipment tips would be helpful also. Oh and on a $15 limit.

Im going to assume you aren't getting enough info from the pics so I'll fill you in. That's about 15-20 chips in that pan. You can almost count em from the ceramics. 2lbs completely fills the bottom about an inch and a half deep. Did you think this part threw before replying???

Will


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## AztekShine (Mar 7, 2012)

Oh and by judging the reaction of the soft white metal in the HCL. And knowing what is inside chips from experience. What do you think the soft white metal is?

It resulted in a yellow liquid.


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## AztekShine (Mar 7, 2012)

HCL Soak.

Last night the acid was grey looking. Today it is green tinted. Shurely copper, if not some nickel. The latter I haven't noticed being discussed in PC's.

Edit: I see now that nickel is present I ceramic copasitors.


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## jack_burton (Mar 7, 2012)

Are you using heat for your HCl leech?


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## AztekShine (Mar 7, 2012)

No. Should I? It seams to have worked thoroughly. I've been wrong before tho.

I understand why It would be nassicary but I didn't notice anything.


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## AztekShine (Mar 7, 2012)

Upon further investagation I think you may mean that nickel wouldn't be present unless I heated it.


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## AztekShine (Mar 7, 2012)

AztekShine said:


> Oh and by judging the reaction of the soft white metal in the HCL. And knowing what is inside chips from experience. What do you think the soft white metal is?
> 
> It resulted in a yellow liquid.



I see upon further research tin does turn HCL yellow. Looks like I may have made stannous chloride. From metal from a chip. Very interesting .


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## Geo (Mar 7, 2012)

most electronics solder will have some mixture of tin and silver and antimony . some of the very old stuff from the early 70's will have some lead in it as well.


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## AztekShine (Mar 8, 2012)

Oh, last night I put some on a q-tip to "test" my HCL I drained off. No color change , but the yellow liquid was almost jelly like.


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## Geo (Mar 8, 2012)

put some in a plastic bottle and freeze it, if its tin it will precipitate out as a snow white crystal and then turn darker if the solution stays below 20°F for a few days.


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## Acid_Bath76 (Mar 8, 2012)

Check it out.


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## AztekShine (Mar 8, 2012)

@ Geo will do!

@ Acid bath, thanks I hasent had time to find that yet. But it will be my new project! That is so brilliant.


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## AztekShine (Mar 9, 2012)

http://www.instructables.com/id/Woodgas-Can-Stove/step1/Materials/?f=m

Here is something that I think could be implamented in incenaration. The middle part two can piece placed over the chips.
Much larger Ofcourse.


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## AztekShine (Mar 12, 2012)

:shock: sliped on the ole touch skreen!


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## AztekShine (Mar 12, 2012)

I like to call this...Two bottels one pump!...lol anyways AP is started now I have all my supplys needed. Except a crucable and borax. But ill order that his weekend. Thanks for the tin Steve!

Edit: My AP is HCL covering the chips by a couple centimeter and 2.5ml of H2O2 added to each jar. The jar system is daisy chained and I have injection ports on he lids. As not to have to remove the lid to add H2O2 or Cl in the next process.


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## Geo (Mar 12, 2012)

AztekShine said:


> I like to call this...Two bottels one pump!...lol anyways AP is started now I have all my supplys needed. Except a crucable and borax. But ill order that his weekend. Thanks for the tin Steve!
> 
> Edit: My AP is HCL covering the chips by a couple centimeter and 2.5ml of H2O2 added to each jar. The jar system is daisy chained and I have injection ports on he lids. As not to have to remove the lid to add H2O2 or Cl in the next process.



hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's not enough solution for that amount of metal. it will quickly saturate and turn brown. then the copper will plate back out onto the material and it will clear with a red "rust" on all the material. when you add more H2O2 ot will turn green and then back to clear shortly after.


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## AztekShine (Mar 12, 2012)

No Sir you are not bearing bad news in the least! I am most greatful.

I see your jar is full of metal tho. Mine is full of pyrolysed plastic and ceramic for the most part. And being that a gallon of HCL can hold 3lb of Cu, I figured it would work ok. I just checked it and it's going strong still. 

If theirs something I may not be taking into consideration please let me kno. I tend to make mistakes by not thinking things through sometimes.

Either way I will keep a close eye on it. If it gets too dark I should add more HCL?


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## Geo (Mar 12, 2012)

if it begins to look like what you see in my picture, start your solution over. i believe what had happened was, the solution ran out of hcl. this happened before i had PH test strips, so there was no way for me to know for sure. it was ¾ of a pound of pins in 1 full quart of hcl. in the pictures, you can see the white copper chloride in the bottom of the jar.i finished the reaction in a gallon jug.


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## dtectr (Mar 13, 2012)

Go to lazersteve's site and download the CuCl II document- it takes some time for it to absorb completely (at least for me! ) but it is actually the CuCl II that effects the dissolution of the base metals. The addition of H2O2/air injection is the means to generate/regenerate it. Periodic additions of HCl do help to maintain the proper ph.


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## AztekShine (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks ... I've been reading that this whole time too... Lol I know I may be sounding like a smart ass but I really am searching and studying everything I can. It is hard to wrap your brain around but I think I got it.


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## AztekShine (Mar 13, 2012)

Tonite I checked them again and I noticed no color change. 

I expected the AP to darken. I added 3 ml of H2O2. 

We will see in the Am if their is any darkening of the AP.


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## AztekShine (Mar 15, 2012)

AP is darker today. Bight not be enough base metals to darken it much more. I am going to let it run a few more days and then go to HCL/Cl.


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## AztekShine (Mar 19, 2012)

6 days after AP started. Solution has been getting darker. I'm going 4 more days to keep it in line with Steve's CuCl PDF. 

The pins I can see have a silver color to them and look completely whole. I'll get a pic up in the am.

EDIT!...Ok so Saturday I unplugged my bubbler. The AP was still translucent dark green. I just went to plug it back up and the AP is so dark light will not pass threw it. 

My pins are still whole. No noticeable change to anything. I didn't add anything. 
I don't recall reading about something like this happening. After stopping O2 introduction that is.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 19, 2012)

AztekShine said:


> 6 days after AP started. Solution has been getting darker. I'm going 4 more days to keep it in line with Steve's CuCl PDF.
> 
> The pins I can see have a silver color to them and look completely whole. I'll get a pic up in the am.
> 
> ...



The addition of 02 is what keeps the AP rejuvinatd to do it job.


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## AztekShine (Mar 19, 2012)

Ya its transparent again. That's interesting! Ok here we go as promiced.


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## Geo (Mar 19, 2012)

do you have PH test strips? your reaction may be on the high side. have you added any fresh hcl?


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## AztekShine (Mar 19, 2012)

I have a electronic PH tester. No I havent added any HCL. What are you considering, Geo?


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## Geo (Mar 19, 2012)

3-4 would do it,anything higher than that will need some more acid.


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## AztekShine (Mar 19, 2012)

10-4

The ph tester I have is a POS. it's for soil but reads to 3.5, It peg'ed out...before it started reacting ,lol... I'll see if I can order some paper. 

At any rate it's lower than 3.5...


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## AztekShine (Mar 23, 2012)

Last night I washed twice with HCL and 3 times with hot water and started HCL/Cl. It turned yellow just as advertised. So I let it sit over night. And I'm ashamed to say it has green in it. 

I kno I can clean it so I'm going to continue with HCL/Cl process. Then clean my sponge when HCL/Cl is done.

Stannous test positive but light in the first wash.

I'm shure some of you are smiling right now :lol: ya the newb isn't as badass as he thought he was!

I'm learning tho the best way I kno how, from mistakes. 

That's my philosophy: if you never make mistakes you will never fully understand why you are doing what your doing.


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## butcher (Mar 23, 2012)

If it is just a little (light) green the copper will not hurt much, but if it is loaded with copper then it does become a problem.

It does not take much copper to color solutions.


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## AztekShine (Mar 23, 2012)

10-4 

I just got home and the second wash is nice and yellow!


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## AztekShine (Mar 23, 2012)

Here's the first and second wash. This is to date the coolest chemistry experiment I have ever done :mrgreen:

Whoops uploaded backerds :x


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## butcher (Mar 24, 2012)

Looks like lot of copper in both could just be pictures.


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## AztekShine (Mar 24, 2012)

It's not the light... When I washed the 2nd run same deal. The copper must have settled. Because when I dumped it it went dark. Not transparent at all. 

If I'm getting so much copper does it mean my gold isn't desolveing as much? Or is it all goin in solution. Because Im pretty shure I'm getting a lite reading with SnCl.

Edit: I was wrong I am not getting a positive test with SnCl .


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## Geo (Mar 24, 2012)

tiny pieces of copper foils break off if you agitate the material, if its pins, then its tiny slivers of copper that didnt dissolve.either way all you can do is keep washing it. now would be a good time to give it a good boil in some fresh hcl.


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## AztekShine (Mar 24, 2012)

I'm gona make new SnCl tomorrow. Their has to be Au in their!


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 24, 2012)

AztekShine said:


> I'm gona make new SnCl tomorrow. Their has to be Au in their!



Assumption is the mother of all screw ups.


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## AztekShine (Mar 24, 2012)

Is it still assumption if I make new SnCl? And then test it? :lol:


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 24, 2012)

AztekShine said:


> Is it still assumption if I make new SnCl? And then test it? :lol:



Nope, it is called intellegence then. Not to be confused with military intellegence which is an unknown field of study 8) .


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## jimdoc (Mar 24, 2012)

Do you have any known gold solution as a standard to test your stannous? You can't say the stannous is bad just because the test isn't positive. You need to test the stannous to trust it for your testing of your solutions.

Jim


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## AztekShine (Mar 24, 2012)

I do not. I kno I need to make some test solution . I will have it after this run is over.


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## AztekShine (Mar 24, 2012)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> AztekShine said:
> 
> 
> > Is it still assumption if I make new SnCl? And then test it? :lol:
> ...


 8)


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## AztekShine (Mar 26, 2012)

So correct me if I'm wrong but I may be getting so much copper in my HCL/Cl wash that the gold Is precipateing out.


Or it's possabily not desolveing the gold due to too much copper.


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## AztekShine (Mar 26, 2012)

Ok I had a simcard and a old phone with 2 gold squares about 3mm. Squares chipped off and I riped the sim. Tore it in to pieces and put it in a 1dram bottle. Added 2ml HCL and 1ml Cl.

Tested my stannous 5min later and its -Au but my HCl/Cl jars gives me a verry light green neon for about 20 seconds. Paladium? Or just Cu(II)Cl? 

I'm going to let the gold solution soak overnight and test again.


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## butcher (Mar 26, 2012)

Copper dissolved in solution will not reduce gold dissolved in solution. Both metals are already oxidized in solution (both missing electrons), (copper Ions cannot give gold any electrons to reduce the gold).

The copper dissolved in solution can make it harder to precipitate the gold if enough copper is dissolved in the solution.

If gold is dissolved in solution elemental copper metal will replace the gold in solution, here the copper will loose electrons and dissolve into solution, and the gold dissolved in solution gains these electrons from the copper and changes to elemental gold metal as powder, or plating out onto the copper metal left in solution, 

And if the solution is thick and loaded with copper or organics, tin, oils, or other trash this elemental gold may form colloids in solution and not precipitate easily, these colloids your stannous chloride will not test for as the gold is already reduced to metals, these colloids will not settle as powders, they keep each other repelled in the solution, and thus can be a major loss of gold, here is where keeping the tin out of solution, using incineration, clean work habits and ridding base metals can save you many head aches and save you from loosing much of your gold.

Some study into redox reactions will clear this question up for you, better than my answer can.

I answered the question you had on testing with stannous that may help on the other thread, if you keep your process and questions in one thread it may be less confusing to you and us also.


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## AztekShine (Mar 26, 2012)

I hear ya. Sorry I thought I might be helpful for a member when searching for that particular answer. I'll keep it all here for now on. I kinda figured some were getting tired of my log also. But thanks alot Butcher!


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## butcher (Mar 26, 2012)

the rest of the story. questions on stannous chloride:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=13616


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## AztekShine (Mar 26, 2012)

Is their a tin reagent? 


I soaked in HCL 24hr I kno tin is reactive highly. 
I don't see any. In my HCL/ Cl. Wash.


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## butcher (Mar 27, 2012)

If your solution filters easily it is a good indication the tin is low in the solution.
If tin is in your solution you will know it when trying to filter.

Your solution looks good as far as I can tell from the picture, clear, not very much copper at all; you are on the right track.

Try and not get confused by my discussion, of dirty solutions, I was speaking in general terms, not necessary specific to your solution.

(Gold chloride solution could test for a tin in a chloride solution, but in this case it would be a waste of good gold, I just posted this as a thought not to be practiced, unless your goal is to test your stannous chloride solution).


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## AztekShine (Mar 28, 2012)

Butcher,
They pretty yellow bottle is my gold standard solution. Yes I'm getting purple from it with SnCl. That makes me happy :twisted: 

What's killing me is those other two jars that look like AP are actually HCL/Cl  
I have let them set open over night wih lids off and still no purple with SnCl.
I have a test tube with my green HCL/Cl and copper wire in it to see if I can get the Au to cement if their is any that the SnCl may be missing for some reason. I'm getting nothing. I believe it's my NaCLO ratio is off. 

I'm learning that's what's important.


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## maynman1751 (Mar 28, 2012)

I think your gold, if there is any, is tied up in undissolved base metal. I would decant the liquid, rinse the solids with water (add this to your decanted liquid), and run the solids back through AP and see if you get a lot of green. I don't think you removed all the base metal the first run. Like Geo said, not enough liquid for the amount of material. Meanwhile you can try to cement your decanted liquid with copper to see if there are any values. There probably isn't enough gold in solution to register on your stannous test. This is just my best guess. Maybe someone else has a better approach.


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## AztekShine (Mar 28, 2012)

Ya that's my thoughts exactly. I was debating on running AP again. I am.

Edit: we'll not exactly the not enough acid part for the base metals is false. The majority of the mass in the jar is plastic.


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## AztekShine (Apr 2, 2012)

Ok just to keep things in order. I ran AP a few more days. Washed rinsed recycled. And back to HCL/Cl.

I filtered old HCL/Cl, went threw filter like water. 8)


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## AztekShine (Apr 4, 2012)

Ok so repeated HCL/Cl and it looks good. Repeating HCl/Cl two more times.

Here's a pic of 2nd run beside 1st.


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## butcher (Apr 4, 2012)

The copper content is still high, it is very hard to tell from just looking, but it does not look to be very high in gold content, also it needs filtering, rinse filters and save, what did your stannous chloride test show of these solutions?

If your solutions filtered easily as you know by now, the tin content in solution is not too high.

If both of these solutions are from HCl/bleach, it appears to me you added the chlorine too early in your process, (HCl and dilute H2O2 would have removed most of the copper from these powders), or (neutralizing rinsing then incinerating and treating the powders nitric acid would have removed copper from the gold).

If I understand this you had powders of copper, gold maybe some other metals, these solutions are from treating these powders with HCl and bleach.

The darker solution if test positive for gold, I would put a clean copper buss bar in it, cement values and start over.

The lighter solution if it tests positive for values, you may be able to precipitate the gold after filtering solution.

I would probably just mix both of these solutions together, give them a good boil with the copper buss bar to cement values and collect powders and start over.


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## AztekShine (Apr 4, 2012)

Ya too much copper no doubt. Neither solution test positive for Au :| 

But I put some of the dark solution in a test tube and a black powder cemented to the copper. 

Someone stated earlier in this thread as to the fact that these IC chips may not contain Au ... I looked closely without magnification tho when I was crushing the chips and seen no gold wire. 

I'm ever so slightly bummed. But I am learning! I'm open to the option of this being a pratice swing.

Edit: when I said that the solution looks good, I ment better.


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## butcher (Apr 4, 2012)

The black powder cementing on copper sounds promising, this makes me believe you can have traces of values in solution.


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## AztekShine (Apr 4, 2012)

Ya I was kinda stoked about it but trying not to get my hopes up.

My gold standard test positive but not so much any where else. 

Why exactly would my SnCl not work on my copper filled "AuCl" ?

Edit: oh ok " collides" repell each other and keep in suspension... 

So I can plate the collides out with Cu? But not drop or test for them?


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## butcher (Apr 4, 2012)

If they are gold colloids, they have already gained back their electrons and converted to metal, so they would not reduce (gain electrons) from the copper metal, so the copper would not cement colloids, but that does not necessarily mean that some may not be trapped in with other metals reducing from solution.

Since you said this solution filtered easily tin should not be a major problem (it forms colloids easily with gold solutions), also dirt or other organics can be a reason for colloids.

Just some thought, you may not have much gold in solution, depending on your process and the methods you used, it could be cemented on metals in your first process, or in other powders or filters in your previous attempts to recover or refine, if you saved that materials you can get it back after you learn a little more, for now I would not worry about gold content in this solution, cement it out on copper, test solution, treat it for waste.


AztekShine, you have learned a little bit so far, and have tried a few things on your own and asking questions along the way, it did not work, but it has showed you that you do have a lot to learn.

I would consider not doing that again, what is that saying about trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Try going back to Hokes Book, reading and doing the experiments she teaches, study a process in steps taking notes, like recovering and cleaning memory finger foils, work on this until you understand it,
The study the HCL/ Bleach method well, understand it well before experimenting, do some small scale experiments, test tube size, until you understand it, then do the same for the next process, take learning in steps small steps, small experimenting, learn to walk before trying to run.

Basically forget about getting gold right now, concentrate on learning, and some small experiments, to understand what your learning, collect materials, and when your ready you will not only have the knowledge you need to process those materials, but you will be able to do it without asking tons of questions and making all of the mistakes and wondering were all that gold is going that you should have had from all of that scrap.

I hope this gives you some ideas to improve the methods your using to get gold.


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## AztekShine (Apr 4, 2012)

Absolutely. Thanks Butcher!


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## AztekShine (Apr 4, 2012)

I still have all my filters and wash water. And if it is cemented on the BM's in he chips I should be able to bet it out.


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## AztekShine (Apr 7, 2012)

HCL/Cl solution from second run is not plateing out BUT the first HCL/Cl solution is plateing out a good amount. Sunday I will purchase a torch and see what I got!


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## AztekShine (Apr 9, 2012)

So I just scraped the cement off my copper. Filter is very heavy with what little bit of black powder is in it. Drying in oven now.


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## AztekShine (Apr 9, 2012)

Pre heated crucible, dumped charred filter with gold powder. And my torch isn't hot enough  I didn't realize that people were useing propane strictly in a furnace. At any rate their was some copper wire Added stupidly to cement before I added solid copper so lesson learned the hard way their. All of the copper pieces solidified and their is one section that can be seen bright yellow in the copper mess. Also under the copper mess their is still some black powder slightly melted together to where it can still be re-powdered with pressure.

Looks like I'm going to have to pick back up in Arkansas. See y'all their!


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## butcher (Apr 9, 2012)

I would not melt, incenerate and and refine, the powders or small wire pieces will be easier to refine.


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