# Length of time to melt a gold engagement ring?



## AngelaQ (Jul 3, 2015)

I'm writing a novel and my character is needing a blacksmith (all she has handy at the moment) to melt her 3-4 oz gold engagement ring. How long would that take to melt it and have it cool enough to form a nugget to hand back to her in a piece of cloth? Thanks in advance!


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## jimdoc (Jul 3, 2015)

AngelaQ said:


> 3-4 oz gold engagement ring




That would be one giant ring.


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## AngelaQ (Jul 3, 2015)

jimdoc said:


> AngelaQ said:
> 
> 
> > 3-4 oz gold engagement ring
> ...



LOL, ooops, I meant grams...


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## justinhcase (Jul 3, 2015)

3-4 oz is a bit of a large chunk of metal to use as a ring,most weight form 2-4 grams.
And to give you an estimate of the time it would take to melt metals into a blob would depend on the period you are setting your novel.
An early forge with just charcoal and a bellow's would find it very hard to do ,and not meany farriers would have the small type of furnace and crucibles needed.
But before travel most small town's and some villages would have had some one who would trade and work in silver and gold.
A more modern work shop from the 1920 onward would have had a gas/oxygen blow torch up until quite recently which would do the job in second.


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## AngelaQ (Jul 3, 2015)

justinhcase said:


> 3-4 oz is a bit of a large chunk of metal to use as a ring,most weight form 2-4 grams.
> And to give you an estimate of the time it would take to melt metals into a blob would depend on the period you are setting your novel.
> An early forge with just charcoal and a bellow's would find it very hard to do ,and not meany farriers would have the small type of furnace and crucibles needed.
> But before travel most small town's and some villages would have had some one who would trade and work in silver and gold.
> A more modern work shop from the 1920 onward would have had a gas/oxygen blow torch up until quite recently which would do the job in second.



Yeah, the oz was a mistake, I meant grams. I panicked I'd put ounces in my novel (which would have involved recalculating the amount she'd get for it (in money)) but luckily I had it right in the manuscript. 

The novel is set in 1294 England...


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## 4metals (Jul 3, 2015)

Once metal is cast, or poured into a bar, it is usually water quenched and cools very quickly. I used to pour 100 ounce gold bars and dump the molds into cold water while it was still glowing red, pull off my gloves, and put my hand in and pull it out seconds later. Never burned me once. 

Just like the blacksmith in the old west movies quenching a red hot horseshoe by dunking it in water, the shoe hissed, the steam rose off the water and the shoe cooled right down.


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## 4metals (Jul 3, 2015)

This is what a goldsmith's shop looked like in that era.


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## AngelaQ (Jul 4, 2015)

4metals said:


> Once metal is cast, or poured into a bar, it is usually water quenched and cools very quickly. I used to pour 100 ounce gold bars and dump the molds into cold water while it was still glowing red, pull off my gloves, and put my hand in and pull it out seconds later. Never burned me once.
> 
> Just like the blacksmith in the old west movies quenching a red hot horseshoe by dunking it in water, the shoe hissed, the steam rose off the water and the show cooled right down.



Thank you! I'll definitely add that detail and visual then...


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## Palladium (Jul 4, 2015)

That was a real interesting period of time in history including for gold also.


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## resabed01 (Jul 4, 2015)

To be fair, I think 2-4 grams for a ring is only a modern thing with karat alloys and casting techniques.
In the 13th century, I would guess a ring could be somewhere around 1 ounce or more. Really, 1 ounce of gold isn't all that much metal.


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## justinhcase (Jul 4, 2015)

resabed01 said:


> To be fair, I think 2-4 grams for a ring is only a modern thing with karat alloys and casting techniques.
> In the 13th century, I would guess a ring could be somewhere around 1 ounce or more. Really, 1 ounce of gold isn't all that much metal.


Would you really consider having a ring the same size as a $20 gold coin?
It would be quite a hand full even split into four ring's.


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## its-all-a-lie (Jul 5, 2015)

justinhcase said:


> resabed01 said:
> 
> 
> > To be fair, I think 2-4 grams for a ring is only a modern thing with karat alloys and casting techniques.
> ...




1 ounce would not be far fetched. I have a few rings that are over half an ounce in weight, one being a high school class ring. I am currently having a ring made that will weigh just over 20 grams. This ring weighs over 1.5 ounces. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MENS-DIAMOND-RING-SOLID-14K-YELLOW-GOLD-48-GRAMS-Size-11-/161739127367?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=q6KFfYkgBm3b8ASi3rLQiT%252FzJOs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Uncommon? Maybe. But they are out there, and probably in a larger quantity than any of us would imagine.


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## Palladium (Jul 5, 2015)

In that time period gold was considered a sign and a store of of wealth and the bigger the ring or item the more your standing in society. I believe the most popular items was crosses and sword pommels.


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## AngelaQ (Jul 5, 2015)

resabed01 said:


> To be fair, I think 2-4 grams for a ring is only a modern thing with karat alloys and casting techniques.
> In the 13th century, I would guess a ring could be somewhere around 1 ounce or more. Really, 1 ounce of gold isn't all that much metal.



I forgot to mention that this is a time travel, so the ring is very much modern...


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## AngelaQ (Jul 5, 2015)

So, on the length of time, if the blacksmith had a crucible for it, and the forge was already hot... how long would that take to melt 3-4 grams of gold...


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## 4metals (Jul 5, 2015)

Probably 5 minutes, certainly under 10. Certainly enough time for them to share a stein of grog!


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## Geo (Jul 5, 2015)

In medieval times, it was common for each settlement to have someone that can assay. Raw, unrefined gold and silver was used in parts of the world that had virgin metal and as trade spread, coins of the realm and points beyond was routinely assayed to assure fineness. The art of assaying was more widely used then than it is today. Wiser and weaker.


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## 4metals (Jul 5, 2015)

> The art of assaying was more widely used then than it is today.



Today we put our trust in electronics (XRF) and our cash in someone else's pocket. The age old fire assay is still the best and most accurate way to do it. 



> I forgot to mention that this is a time travel



So she can get a price for her bead from a modern cash for gold guy, travel back in time for a good old fire assay, and when she see's the difference she can bring the cash for gold guy back to the medieval times and have him publicly flogged!


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## martyn111 (Jul 5, 2015)

4metals said:


> So she can get a price for her bead from a modern cash for gold guy, travel back in time for a good old fire assay, and when she see's the difference she can bring the cash for gold guy back to the medieval times and have him publicly flogged!



Ha Ha, If only that was possible 4metals


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## AngelaQ (Jul 6, 2015)

Thanks everyone! Does this work then? She has no expertise in this kind of thing, so she couldn't just call it a crucible...



> He stoked the fire in his forge higher, pulled out a dark gray, ceramic-looking beaker, and dropped her ring inside. With tongs held in gloved hands, he gripped the container and held it over the hottest part of the fire.
> [small bit of dialogue with another character cut as it has no relation to the melting]
> Ten agonizing minutes later, the blacksmith poured the molten gold into a small mold. With another pair of tongs, he fished out her diamond, and then plunged the mold into a bucket of water. Steam flashed high _tshhhhh_, obscuring him momentarily.
> Shortly, he handed Katy a piece of wool with a lump of gold no bigger than a green pea on steroids and her diamond on top.


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## 4metals (Jul 6, 2015)

> He stoked the fire in his forge higher, pulled out a dark gray, ceramic-looking beaker, and dropped her ring inside



Actually he would be pulling out what they referred to as a flask back then and it would be glowing bright red, as it is the same temperature as the forge. So you wouldn't know it was dark grey. 

And the diamond would be in pretty poor shape after the high heat and the quick water quench. Classically they would clip off the prongs retaining the diamond and it would fall free. 

And he wouldn't plunge the mold into a bucket of water just the solidified gold.


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## jason_recliner (Jul 6, 2015)

One would take the gold from the mold before dropping it into the cold.


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## rickbb (Jul 6, 2015)

He definitely would remove the stone first and then after the poured gold in the mold became solid, (just a few seconds is all that would take), then dump the still hot bead out of the mold into water then. It'd still be very hot, enough to steam like crazy.


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## g_axelsson (Jul 6, 2015)

A 4 gram button doesn't steam like crazy, it says pffft and then it's cool.

Göran


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## rickbb (Jul 6, 2015)

Depends on how big a container of water you put it in. A big bucket yes your right pfft is all. Small cup, more steam.

But either way no cloud of steam like she wrote about.


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## g_axelsson (Jul 6, 2015)

It will be a small pffft in a small cup also, it's all down to the amount of energy stored in the hot gold. 3-4 grams can't produce a lot of steam.

Göran


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## 4metals (Jul 6, 2015)

This is all sounding very technical and quite specific.......but once you throw in the time travel piece, a pffft or a hisssssss doesn't really make much difference does it?


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## Geo (Jul 6, 2015)

After all, it is fiction. You could have them melt it with dragons breath.


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## patnor1011 (Jul 7, 2015)

Geo said:


> After all, it is fiction. You could have them melt it with dragons breath.



lol
or he could have used philosopher stone and turn crucible and tongs to gold along with ring.


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## nickvc (Jul 7, 2015)

Angela if you want historical accuracy don't have the diamond as a modern brilliant cut, ie a round cut many faceted stone.
In antiquity diamonds were cleaned and polished due to the difficulty, their hardness, in cutting them so the stones were the same shapes that nature produced them in with a little shaping and polishing to increase their lustre.
Perhaps the first cut stones were cushion cut, that we would call cut anyway, but I think even those didn't arrive till the 18/19 th centuries.


Edited for accuracy.


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## AngelaQ (Jul 7, 2015)

nickvc said:


> Angela if you want historical accuracy don't have the diamond as a modern brilliant cut, ie a round cut many faceted stone.
> In antiquity diamonds were cleaned and polished due to the difficulty, their hardness, in cutting them so the stones were the same shapes that nature produced them in with a little shaping and polishing to increase their lustre.
> Perhaps the first cut stones were cushion cut, that we would call cut anyway, but I think even those didn't arrive till the 18/19 th centuries.
> 
> ...



True, except this is a modern ring that traveled with her back into time. I didn't include this part, as it didn't have to do with melting, but the rest of that last paragraph actually had the blacksmith noting its unusual cut:



> Shortly, he handed Katy a piece of wool with a lump of gold no bigger than a green pea on steroids and her diamond on top. “I’ve never seen such a curiously cut stone. Where did you acquire it?”
> “Er. In France.” She tied the cloth into a knot and put the bundle into her money pouch.


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## AngelaQ (Jul 10, 2015)

Thank you guys for helping me get the details right! It's now back from the proofreaders, and about to be formatted for publishing...


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