# droping gold gold, not brown gold



## drifter_046 (Oct 24, 2009)

Hi all, Ive just been playing with some scap jewelery and hcl / bleach - anyway here's what i have, 
Looks like its dropped out as crystal? gold, not the usual brown powder. It had at first settled out as ultra fine specks and has clumped together with a bit of stirring. Anyone else had this? This is the second time i've had this happed - both times I tried to speed up the dropping process by heating up the auric chloride solution to near boil after adding an extreme excess of smb.


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## Lino1406 (Oct 24, 2009)

Could be gold chloride, add stannous chloride,
see what color develops (or totally disappears)


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## lazersteve (Oct 24, 2009)

Lino1406 said:


> Could be gold chloride, add stannous chloride,
> see what color develops (or totally disappears)



It might be more prudent to add stannous to a small sample of the solution and precipitate instead of adding stannous to the entire solution. 

It's always best to keep tin out of your solutions.

Steve


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## Lino1406 (Oct 25, 2009)

Always right!


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## drifter_046 (Oct 25, 2009)

Thanks guys, 
So whats the biggest size I could expect to grow a gold crystal ? 
Has anyone been successful in growing large crystals? Big ones grow in nature, it must be feasable for me to grow some in the shed. :mrgreen:


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## Harold_V (Oct 26, 2009)

drifter_046 said:


> Thanks guys,
> So whats the biggest size I could expect to grow a gold crystal ?
> Has anyone been successful in growing large crystals? Big ones grow in nature, it must be feasable for me to grow some in the shed. :mrgreen:


I refined for more than 20 years, and precipitated gold on a daily basis. It's safe to say that in all those years, I achieved crystalline precipitates only a few times----no more than three. 

If you find the method by which you can do it routinely, it might be interesting to read how it's done. I could never duplicate the process, in spite of my feeble attempts. 

Harold


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## qst42know (Oct 26, 2009)

For repeatable crystal growth you may need to change to vapor deposition. I think both Lou and Steve are working on this type of project.



http://theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/079/index.s7.html#sample18


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## Irons (Oct 26, 2009)

SO2 is not very soluble in water at elevated temperatures, that may be why it took an excess of reducing agent. Try adding it slowly, to slow down the precipitation and leave some of the crystalline gold in the beaker to act as a seed. Adding some NaCl to about 1% concentration might also help.


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## drifter_046 (Oct 27, 2009)

Yep salt is the answer, i just tried it with some dirty, filthy, salty aucl - added smb with heat. Crystals within 10min.
tried another test with clear aucl with added colloidal gold - it went brown / cloudy. I reckon this will go crystal too, eventually. EDIT: nope, just dropped out as normal brown gold powder

Harold, I think you worked too clean to get the good stuff :lol: 

Anyone else going to try this?

Got me thinking about the formation of nuggets found in salt lakes.......
see here for more info 
http://www.janetsgoldnuggets.com/


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## Irons (Oct 27, 2009)

drifter_046 said:


> Yep salt is the answer, i just tried it with some dirty, filthy, salty aucl - added smb with heat. Crystals within 10min.
> tried another test with clear aucl with added colloidal gold - it went brown / cloudy. I reckon this will go crystal too, eventually. EDIT: nope, just dropped out as normal brown gold powder
> 
> Harold, I think you worked too clean to get the good stuff :lol:
> ...



:mrgreen: 

I think you can cut back a little on the Salt.


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## drifter_046 (Oct 27, 2009)

Irons said:


> :mrgreen:
> 
> I think you can cut back a little on the Salt.



:lol: there's a bit there yes.. but this is what was formed with the hcl/bleach process, I assume its salt, maybe copper chloride?


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## Irons (Oct 27, 2009)

I wonder what the Assay on the Gold from the cruddy solution will be.

If anything, filtration and cleanup time is reduced considerably. Time is money.


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## drifter_046 (Oct 27, 2009)

Irons said:


> I wonder what the Assay on the Gold from the cruddy solution will be.
> 
> If anything, filtration and cleanup time is reduced considerably. Time is money.



Is there a bootyfab way of checking purity?


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## lazersteve (Oct 27, 2009)

Melt the resulting flakes and see what you get.

Now that you have identified the likely cause it seems pretty logical as I've heard of 'salting out' being used in some other chemistry reactions. The salt occupies the solvent and the dissolved substance has no where to go but out of the solution. Saturated salt solutions can also be used to dry ethereal layers of solutions.

Very interesting, I'll have to try this myself.

Steve


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## drifter_046 (Oct 29, 2009)

drifter_046 said:


> Irons said:
> 
> 
> > :mrgreen:
> ...



The salt dissolves easily in water, so I assume it's just plain old salt from the acid bleach process.



lazersteve said:


> Melt the resulting flakes and see what you get.
> 
> Now that you have identified the likely cause it seems pretty logical as I've heard of 'salting out' being used in some other chemistry reactions. The salt occupies the solvent and the dissolved substance has no where to go but out of the solution. Saturated salt solutions can also be used to dry ethereal layers of solutions.
> 
> ...



any luck?


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## Gold Lady (Dec 10, 2009)

I am just a nubie to the forum so I have a few questions for anyone with the answere I need. Does any one out there have SO2 gas that they can do a precipitation on my pregnant au solution. I don't want to buy a tank of SO2 at the cost of $400.00 before I know that it will work on my solution. It is a safe soution to work with. I leach head ore only with great success but have not figured out the best way to drop the gold but I like what I see when it drops out as pure yellow gold.
Gold Lady


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## Harold_V (Dec 10, 2009)

You likely understand that only someone local to you can give you a hand with your solution. 

I'm curious why you think your solution might be exempt from precipitating gold? I used it for 20 years without issues. 

Be advised, it is not a harmless gas (or solution, as the case may be when you buy it bottled). Breathing SO2 does serious damage to your respiratory system, and is likely listed as a carcinogen. Use with care (fume hood strongly advised). 

Harold


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## butcher (Dec 10, 2009)

golden lady sounds like you are looking for a chemical to precipitate your gold with, SO2 gas, these will produce SO2 gas in acid solution's,sodium metabisulfite (wine supply store), sodium sulfite, sodium bisulfite (check pool chemicals), sodium disulfite, sodium pyrosulfite (check stump removers).

ferrous sulfate (copperas) (Iron sulfate) look for in garden supplys(green not oxidized brown), or can be made with soft Iron from old transformers burn them wash and use dilute sulfuric acid to dissolve Iron(new battery acid and 3 parts water good here), can evaporate to crystals if needed.

there are other precipitants that can be used also to get gold from solutions,

metals will also precipitate gold and valuble metals from acidic solutions, by replacing the metals such as gold in the acid, with another metal , a metal higher in the reactive series, (look up reactivity series and read about this), Example copper or Iron, will replace the gold in the acid and push out the gold as a precipitant.

I also noticed you have been looking for something to precipitate your gold as a golden powder, I would forget this Idea, and just go for the gold as a Beutiful brown powder.

ores are difficult to work with, there are many different leach methods and the type of ore may determine one method better than another, the ore is made from so many different things, the rock is formed from acids or alkalie that can effect a leach of these, concentration, and pretreatment is very important to success, depending on ore type, like particle size roasting ( depending on ore type can be dangerous as things like arsenic is possible), some rock can be sulfide made from sulfuric acid, carbonates , etcetera, these acids or bases , can complicate your leaching chemicals, also base metals in the rock can use up your leach strength before you get values out of the rock, also with ore you are working normally with base metals and values in your solution which complicates a clean precipitant of gold from solution, these can also make it hard to precipitate gold from solution, here is where displacing them with a metal higher in reactive series works somewhat better, then refinining your precipitants.

hope this gives you a place to start find your answer's you seek, reading through this forum, you can find the answer's you seek, it takes time so patients is needed, also Hokes book ( download avialable on forum) is a great book to learn from, another book well worth the price to me was recovery and refining of precious metals written by C.W. Ammen, I bought my copie years ago from Action mining, 

http://www.actionmining.com/

Ps my wife wants to know if yer a guy or girl miner?


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## drifter_046 (Dec 10, 2009)

Can any one shed some light on the reaction when using SMB?
I'm assuming the sodium replaces the gold in the aucl to give free gold and table salt as a by product.. (which is why i am getting heaps of salt mixed with the dropped gold crystals) where does the sulpher componant of the smb end up? 

What about so2? there's no sodium to replace the au in the aucl solution or does the sulpher form some sort of salt with the chlorine?

cheers


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## lazersteve (Dec 10, 2009)

drifter_046 said:


> Can any one shed some light on the reaction when using SMB?
> I'm assuming the sodium replaces the gold in the aucl to give free gold and table salt as a by product.. (which is why i am getting heaps of salt mixed with the dropped gold crystals) where does the sulpher componant of the smb end up?
> 
> What about so2? there's no sodium to replace the au in the aucl solution or does the sulpher form some sort of salt with the chlorine?
> ...



Drifter,

Here's a link:

SMB Equation

If your solution is dirty the salt may be something like copper I chloride which is insoluble in water, but soluble in excess HCl. If it's truly table salt (NaCl) it is easily dissolved in water.

Steve


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## Gold Lady (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks Butcher for your great information. I have used iron sulfate and SO2 GAS as a precipitant and I also have C.W Amens book. I was looking for an assay lab that I can send my pregnant solution to that uses SO2 gas to see if it works on my leaching chemistry. I use a chlorine leach on head ore and it works great. I have used activated carbon to seperate the AU from the other metals in solution and striipped the activated carbon colum with hot caustic soda and precipitated it with SO2 gas at a friends lab and it worked great. I am just looking for the easiest and fastest way to precipitate the brown powder. How do you fire the brown powder? Do you use a muffler frurnace or an electric one? What is the flux that you woud use on the iron sulfate as everything as heavy as iron will drop as well. I have been messing around with head ore off and on for 20 years but I have a web site business that takes up most of my time. www.vitalion.com 
Thanks,
Joyce


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## Gold Lady (Dec 13, 2009)

Thank you Harold for your reply. I have been looking for an assay lab that uses SO2 gas as a precipitant and can't seem to find one. Do you know a lab that uses SO2? Please let me know where they are located and I will send my solution to them. I know that so2 gas will precititate the AU out of my solution. My question to you is, can I 
precipitate the AU in my pregnant solution with so2 gas with out using the activated carbon and caustic soda? My pH ranges from a 5-8 when I am finished and my soluton is hot. I use a chlorine leach.
Joyce


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## butcher (Dec 13, 2009)

as for the brown powder with possible iron sulfates, i would not melt it .but roast out the sulfides, leach base metals and re- refine, till my powder was gold. 
and for melting I use a torch.

I have looked into a SO2 generator, from chmicals, and I see something that looks more promising than burning sulfur, and may even generate a steady stream of gas, still haven't got to a point I can post it yet but will as soon as the theory is ready for everyone to shoot holes in it.


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## nōnāgintā trēs (Dec 10, 2012)

I've been scrapping for over a year now with AR and BDG. I tried the HCL+Clorox method for the first time last week. I heated, added SMB, and it looks like a snow globe full of gold in my jar. I believe it's a result from the heating. Heat to near boiling for a half hour, then add SMB in liquid form... Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!


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## Geo (Dec 10, 2012)

nōnāgintā trēs said:


> I've been scrapping for over a year now with AR and BDG. I tried the HCL+Clorox method for the first time last week. I heated, added SMB, and it looks like a snow globe full of gold in my jar. I believe it's a result from the heating. Heat to near boiling for a half hour, then add SMB in liquid form... Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!



actually, its better to chill the solution instead of heating. a heated solution will drive off the SO2 gas needed to precipitate the gold. you must have added way more than needed to precipitate what gold is there.


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## glondor (Dec 10, 2012)

LOL 3 year old bump!


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## scrappile (Dec 10, 2012)

glondor said:


> LOL 3 year old bump!




Speaking of old ones,

Did your Fume hood work out, seems I saw the starting pictures,

and transformer plates, I have a fifty pound one , stripped of copper though,..


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## nōnāgintā trēs (Dec 11, 2012)

Geo said:


> nōnāgintā trēs said:
> 
> 
> > I've been scrapping for over a year now with AR and BDG. I tried the HCL+Clorox method for the first time last week. I heated, added SMB, and it looks like a snow globe full of gold in my jar. I believe it's a result from the heating. Heat to near boiling for a half hour, then add SMB in liquid form... Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!
> ...



No, I heat the gold chloride solution, then add 10g. SMB mixed with about 20ml water. Works fine. Turns the jar into a snow globe!


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