# First toll refining job!!



## moose7802 (Nov 21, 2013)

I just got my first toll refining material today from another member here. It is some pretty rich stuff all ceramic cpus. Can't wait to refine all this stuff for him, it's a good feeling to meet another honest member who trust's me to refine for him. Thanks again you know who you are. 

Tyler


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## 9kuuby9 (Nov 21, 2013)

Well enjoy your first job and be correct as possible while your at it. 8) 

PS. I know who you are doing the job for too! I can clearly remember the collection you've got their.


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## moose7802 (Nov 21, 2013)

I pride myself on honesty and my word. I am making a spreadsheet on this lot with each type of cpu, the weight, and the yield. Thanks for the support 9kuuby9.

Tyler


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## Anonymous (Nov 22, 2013)

Now we'll sit back, open the popcorn and wait for the fireworks when you proudly tell him that he's got 3 grammes of gold *giggles kindly*

Hehe good luck with it Moose. 8) 8)


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## moose7802 (Nov 22, 2013)

Not sure how to take that comment, but he will get every gram of gold I get back and I will get every gram of gold out of this. The person I am doing this for personally dropped the material off and trust's I will do him right. Not sure as to why you want to question my integrity or ethics. I will try to not let it bother me but I do pride myself on honesty and my word!

And as far as 3 grams total Au my notes show I should get anywhere between 18-23 grams. Possibly more as there are some pretty rich cpus I have not had the luxury of running yet and can't wait to see the yield on them. 

Tyler


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## Platdigger (Nov 22, 2013)

It was in fun I am sure. We have just seen how many of these things go.
Don't take it personal, as I am sure it was not meant like that.
I am convinced you will do a fine job.


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## moose7802 (Nov 22, 2013)

Thanks platdigger! Well I can promise you this I will be one of the few I guess then that doesn't fit into that slimy, dishonest category. 

Tyler


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## Anonymous (Nov 22, 2013)

Platdigger said:


> It was in fun I am sure. We have just seen how many of these things go.
> Don't take it personal, as I am sure it was not meant like that.
> I am convinced you will do a fine job.



Exactly mate. The dry humour that us Brits use is often misinterpreted by our colleagues in the states :lol:


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## moose7802 (Nov 22, 2013)

Thanks for clarifying spaceships. I for one like a little dry humor, it's hard to interpret things through text. 

Tyler


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## Anonymous (Nov 22, 2013)

Tyler get on a couple of Brit forums and I promise you that for the first few weeks you'll cringe mate 8) 

But when you get the hang of it you'll be typing horrendous comments that people just laugh at!!!!

It's just a slightly different way of thinking.

Good luck with your toll mate I wish you all the best.

Jon


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## moose7802 (Nov 22, 2013)

I appreciate that Jon. I have a tendency to take things a little personal when I shouldn't.

Tyler


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## butcher (Nov 22, 2013)

moose7802,
Relax were on your side,as friends, we all hope you do well in this adventure, for yourself and your customer, keep us posted on your progress, as it will be interesting, we'll sit back, open the popcorn and wait for the fireworks when you proudly tell him that he's got 3 grams of gold *giggles kindly*,or proudly hand him a heavy chunk of beautiful refined gold, that makes his jaw drop.


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## Palladium (Nov 22, 2013)

Something about curiosity and a cat? :twisted: 
Good luck brother i can see your eager to learn.


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## moose7802 (Nov 22, 2013)

Thanks guys. As far as the dry humor...let me put it this way, someone in a bar, you don't really know comes up to you and makes a comment that attacks your pride, your not going to respond to him, your just going to smile at him and say thanks? Yeah probably not and I don't care what side of the pond you are on. Now if one of my friends makes the same comment I would just make a smart*S's remark back. That being said I understand we are all supposed to be friends but I honestly don't know Jon from Adam so yeah I'm going to get a little up tight, but now that I understand what was meant by the comment it's alright. 

I'm relaxed, actually I'm probably one of the most laid back kinda people you will meet, but pi** me off and you won't like what happens. But as I said I'm relaxed and as they say it's all good just don't like when I feel my character is being attacked. Jon if you ever come to this side of the pond and get out of that cold rainy gloom and want to get some rays in sunny SoCal I would buy ya a beer. 

Tyler


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## AndyWilliams (Nov 23, 2013)

moose7802 said:


> Thanks guys. As far as the dry humor...let me put it this way, someone in a bar, you don't really know comes up to you and makes a comment that attacks your pride, your not going to respond to him, your just going to smile at him and say thanks? Yeah probably not and I don't care what side of the pond you are on. Now if one of my friends makes the same comment I would just make a smart*S's remark back. That being said I understand we are all supposed to be friends but I honestly don't know Jon from Adam so yeah I'm going to get a little up tight, but now that I understand what was meant by the comment it's alright.
> 
> I'm relaxed, actually I'm probably one of the most laid back kinda people you will meet, but pi** me off and you won't like what happens. But as I said I'm relaxed and as they say it's all good just don't like when I feel my character is being attacked. Jon if you ever come to this side of the pond and get out of that cold rainy gloom and want to get some rays in sunny SoCal I would buy ya a beer.
> 
> Tyler



You've got the right sense. Were the situations reversed, Jon would not have been as polite as you were about his comment.


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## Anonymous (Nov 23, 2013)

Ouch! I'm not even sure how you can say that but hey- onwards and upwards.

How's that refining coming along Tyler, where you up to so far?


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## moose7802 (Nov 23, 2013)

Actually almost done already just waiting for silver and lead to settle after diluting my AR solutions and adding sulfamic. Now all that's left is to clean up 3# of K6's that have a bunch of thermal grease on them. Will definitely post a pic of the nice button once I'm done. 

Tyler


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## moose7802 (Nov 24, 2013)

Well here it is all done 13.11 grams from 8# ceramic cpus. Have a very happy customer with the look of this button.


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## g_axelsson (Nov 24, 2013)

Looking good, and you are a lot faster on refining than I am. :mrgreen: 

Thanks for refining publicly, it increases the confidence in toll refining again.

Göran


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## AndyWilliams (Nov 24, 2013)

Looks great! How much were you expecting to yield?


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## moose7802 (Nov 24, 2013)

I was expecting a little more but I also thought I had 2 more #'s of chips than I actually had. So my yield was really spot on for the actual amount I had. This button has been picked up already and another roughly 12#'s of ceramics dropped off. 

Tyler


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## steyr223 (Nov 25, 2013)

hey Tyler
I'm right around the corner if you need any help :mrgreen: 

Im an experienced gofor :lol: 

Steyr223 rob
Nice job


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## Anonymous (Nov 25, 2013)

Hi Tyler- can you clarify what 8# means please? I'm trying to work out what your average yield per chip is and I'm obviously a little confused- because heck I'd love to get that yield from 8 !!!

Cheers

Jon


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## FrugalRefiner (Nov 25, 2013)

Jon,

In the U.S., we use the # symbol to indicate pounds. 8# would be 8 pounds, sometimes also abbreviated as 8 lb. Our pound is about 453.59 grams.

Dave


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## moose7802 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks Dave for clarifying that for him. My yield was 1.5 grams per#. Almost 6# of it was pentiums and K6's.

Tyler


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## Anonymous (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks Dave and thanks Tyler.

What was the average proc count per pound please?


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## moose7802 (Nov 25, 2013)

Honestly Jon I couldn't even tell you. It was a pretty random batch with 3/4 of the weight coming from the low yield pentiums/K6's. How about this Jon I got another 12# from my client last night and I will try to keep a chip count this time in comparison per #.

Tyler


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## Anonymous (Nov 25, 2013)

Works for me Tyler!


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## moose7802 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks Rob for the offer I might have to take you up on it soon. Jon I have weighed and counted this batch of cpus and there is a little over 12# and 202 cpus. So this batch is also a little over 4# heavier than the last. 

Tyler


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## moose7802 (Nov 26, 2013)

Here's 8# of the second batch in AR. Jon it's roughly 120 cpus. 

Tyler


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## butcher (Nov 26, 2013)

Hot spots can be created with powders or solids sitting on the bottom of a heated vessel, these can sometimes cause the vessel to crack or break, I do not know how hard you are heating that vessel, but in any case using a corning dish between your hot plate and the vessel, can help catch your values if something does go south.


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## moose7802 (Nov 26, 2013)

Thanks for the advice Butcher as I usually do have corning ware under my beakers. This thing is super thick and so big I don't have a dish big enough to put under it. It's a 12,000 ml beaker and I just have it on between low and warm heat setting. I don't heat my solutions hot ever just a little heat to speed it up a bit. I can grab it by the bottom with my hands. 

Tyler


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## moose7802 (Nov 28, 2013)

Well here it is from the second batch 18.85 grams! It got scratched trying to pull it out of the dish. Spaceships-120 cpus still have 3.5#-79 cpus of K6's to run.


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## 9kuuby9 (Nov 28, 2013)

you're Doing pretty good! Enjoy the toll refining. :mrgreen:


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## Anonymous (Nov 28, 2013)

Haha Tyler, as Kuuby says you're doing really well. I'm beginning to get jealous because I've got nowhere to refine my gear for a short while and I'm having to get someone to do it for me!

Looks really good. There's no "here's 3g and be grateful for it" goin' on here that's for sure. 8)


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## butcher (Nov 28, 2013)

Nice, keep up the good work, and posting your progress, we may see someones jaw drop yet.


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## jonn (Nov 28, 2013)

Beautiful job Moose :mrgreen:


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## moose7802 (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks guys I truly appreciate the encouraging words! So far I have done a little over an ounce now for my client with 2 batches of ceramics.


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## Geo (Nov 28, 2013)

one thing i have learned on my own and confirmed here on the forum, the thicker your vessel is, the more susceptible it is to thermal expansion. i would still use a catch pan just to be safe.


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## Harold_V (Nov 28, 2013)

Geo said:


> one thing i have learned on my own and confirmed here on the forum, the thicker your vessel is, the more susceptible it is to thermal expansion. i would still use a catch pan just to be safe.


Correct. Pyrex made it perfectly clear that the heavy wall cylinders they sold were not to be heated. Their heavy duty Griffin beakers, for example, had a heavier rim, but the balance of the beaker was not thicker, otherwise they were more susceptible to thermal failure. 

I have to admit---I never used a catch pan when refining. However, my setup was such that if I experienced a broken vessel (very rare), I could recover virtually 100% of the lost solution, so long as it wasn't a large volume. It would all be contained within my fume hood. 

While I commented that it was very rare to experience a broken vessel, by that I mean one that has become more than one piece. Cracked beakers were relatively common, as they got badly abraded inside, due to processing polishing wastes. As they degraded, they'd eventually crack around the bottom, but rarely came apart. I kept watch and discarded a beaker the moment it showed a crack. 

Harold


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## moose7802 (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks Jeff, I don't heat my vessels hot at all, I can pick them up from the bottom with my bare hands. I am working on trying to find a dish that will hold that beast of a beaker in the picture. Thanks Harold I totally understand what is being said so my question is then, since I am barely heating it can it still break? 
Tyler


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## butcher (Nov 28, 2013)

Crock pots work well for heating solutions, even solutions containing powders that would be difficult in glass-ware, the crock pots heat from a thin heating element wrapped around the crock it heats from the sides not the bottom where the powders settle.

I think you should check it out to see if the vessel you are using was designed to be heated, you sure do not want a failure and take a chance of losing that gold, that would be a hard way to learn a lesson...

Corning Pyroceram dishes also work great, and can handle solids being heated in the bottom of the dish, these also come in several sizes.


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## Palladium (Nov 28, 2013)

I'm as paranoid about my gold solutions as Dale Dribble is about the government. I use pyroceram under my beakers and then the hotplate sets in a large plastic shallow pan designed as a drip pan for a water heater. For me it's not only the breakage problem, but the fumble fingers part. I've came closer to accidents many more times than i've had to worry about breakage. Handling beakers full of gold solutions should be taken with the greatest of care and coordination. It's very important that you develop a good work ethic as well as a procedure that you can follow step by step each time. Call it standard operating procedure. I'm still as nervous today as i was when i first started when it comes to handling solutions in the final stages. Even though i might be able to recover the gold, the last thing i need to be doing is breaking, dropping, or knocking over a $5,000 beaker. When you become complacent is when you make mistakes.


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## moose7802 (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks Butcher, this beaker is actually designed for one of those big stand up reaction vessels. It is a very pricey piece of glass. Thanks palladium I totally understand what everyone is saying that was the first time i used that beaker because I just got it. I will find a dish big enough to put it in but in the meantime I have a tub that I can put under my hot plate if any problem was to arise. I really appreciate all the great advice

Tyler


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## Palladium (Nov 28, 2013)

If you're going to being doing large volumes i use to use the 5 gallon bucket method as i called it.


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## moose7802 (Nov 28, 2013)

Meaning AR with no heat in a plastic bucket? I did a second refine on this batch and dissolved all of the powder in a 200ml beaker with 100ml of hcl and 25ml of HNO3. After that I was holding that little beaker with 2 hands considering there was almost $800 worth of Au in it. I have never been so nervous or careful holding a beaker. :roll: I totally understand what palladium is saying! I know I'm fairly new to this and have a lot to learn but I do try and pay attention to small details and have a strong work ethic. My practices will only get better especially with all the great advice I am receiving. Truly appreciate it guys!!! Hope everyone is having a great Thanksgiving in the states. 

Tyler


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## Palladium (Nov 28, 2013)

I take a 5 gallon bucket and place it in a large vessel with water like a Cajun turkey cooker. A single serving line warmer from a closed restaurant will work also. I then take another bucket and drill holes in the bottom and place that in the first bucket. It works as a strainer. Then you can add your chips and chemicals. When you need to agitate the chips or see how much they like to be finished you can simply raise the bucket out of the other bucket spin it once or twice and put it back in. You can use 2 gal buckets and so on also.


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## moose7802 (Nov 28, 2013)

That's how I have my AP. That is a great idea! I never thought about it for AR but that would make rinsing and straining a breeze! Thanks a lot palladium

Tyler


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## steyr223 (Nov 29, 2013)

Just for the record I have used cracked beakers many many times over before they actually break of course I had them in a corningware dish to not lose any values.

Actually most of them didn't break they just started leaking out the crack.

Now the ones that get me are the silent
Breakers ,i had one break just sitting in the sun (no visible scratches) i went to pick it up and it completely seperated (two perfect pieces) 
I have now learned to check before i touch(this has saved me.twice) you can siphon if very carfull.

Palladium
I used to get really upset I mean really upset when I knocked over my beakers or stepped on it ,fell on it ,slipped on it.
the worst one I had is when I went to grab it (about $400 worth of auric chloride) instead of grabbing it all I did was slam it against the wall. :shock: 

I don't get upset anymore I just take my shirt off throw it on top of it mop it up and refine it another time 8) 
Steyr223. Rob


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## moose7802 (Sep 1, 2016)

Miss doing this!! Cant wait to get a house where I am at now, so I can get back at it! Hope all is well around here!!


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## butcher (Sep 2, 2016)

moose7802,
I hope you get that house I miss seeing the gold from your melting dish.


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## moose7802 (Sep 2, 2016)

Thanks Butcher!! Its definitely been too long since I have frequented this forum and can't wait to get back at it! My little one is 2 years old already, man they grow up fast! We are trying for another one right now and then its house buying time. The housing market here is just super crazy expensive here so I'm kind of looking for the perfect property, that needs work or an empty lot that I can build my own on. I will be melting again soon and can't wait, take care and best wishes to all!


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## jonn (Sep 2, 2016)

It's great to see you back Moose!


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## moose7802 (Sep 3, 2016)

Thanks Jonn, as I said before can't wait to start refining again once we get a house up here!


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## Tndavid (Sep 6, 2016)

Beautiful work..


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