# Calling all experienced refiners



## yusuf1986 (Jul 14, 2015)

I was wondering if anyone has come across gold in SiO2 solution. Basically from what I can understand SiO2 is glass and the only thing that dissolves it is sodium hydroxide and some fluoride acid. The problem is that I've been reading the forums and only hot concentrated sodium hydroxide can melt glass. How would you go about getting the gold from the solution? I tried putting some alcohol in the hard stuff to wash it out but not I'm stuck with alcohol with SiO2 with some gold in the solution. I did the stannous test and it came out positive for some gold but I know nitric acid or any other acid you guys are familiar with probably won't get rid of the SiO2. Help from experienced refiners please! 

My last concern is with the selling, I've heard alot of good things about ARA gold in Texas but Midwestern refiners in Michigan has had a few bad reviews. Where do you guys suggest I can sell to a reputable refiner on a biweekly basis?


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## bswartzwelder (Jul 14, 2015)

I seriously doubt that NaOH can melt glass. It may dissolve it, but I seriously doubt that as well.


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## Geo (Jul 14, 2015)

The material isn't beer bottles is it?


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## Lou (Jul 14, 2015)

What generated the material that put the gold and the glass in solution?

you said you stannous'd it and there's gold there. What color is the solution?


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## yusuf1986 (Jul 14, 2015)

my mom had a some guy 20 years ago make her a 24kt gold mixed with glass cup. This is when the money was good, she passed and I got all this junk but not everything is junk, there's alot of jewelry here. It came out purple with the tin chloride test. I just really suck at this gold refining stuff. I'm doing more damage than getting stuff out, last thing I want is to get only 2 grams of gold from something that had 10 grams in it because I didn't know the proper mixing. 

Sodium hydroxide melts glass but it needs to be in molten form, there are several videos showing this if you search "melt glass" in youtube. 

LOL i love the beer bottle comment....no I didn't get drunk and then faded off into thinking that there must be gold in my Budweiser bottle, LOL...I'm chuckling as I write this. 

I crushed the glass already in a ball mill so now it's sludgy. No doubt there is gold in the solution, I just need to know the chemicals required for recovery. I can try to send a sample to a senior refiner so they can take a look, since I'm new here I hope that I don't get ripped off.


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## yusuf1986 (Jul 14, 2015)

I forgot to mention I have about 5 of these cups not one. 

We can talk about incentives for recovery for since chemicals aren't free, appreciate your time. 


Thanks


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## yusuf1986 (Jul 14, 2015)

I wanted to also mention if electrolysis would be a good method, but I'm not sure if it will recover the stuff.


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## Geo (Jul 14, 2015)

You need to do a lot more reading before trying to do any refining. Sodium hydroxide will DISSOLVE glass by heating the dry crystals to boiling in an iron pan. Of coarse it will also dissolve your fingers, eyes or other important parts of you that you don't want dissolved if you have an accident and spill it on you.There's no need to dissolve the glass when you can dissolve the metal without dissolving the glass. That's the part you need to study on.


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## yusuf1986 (Jul 14, 2015)

I just spoke with a smelter and he told me what to do, basically from what I can understand he asked me if there is anything other than alchohol and glass in the solution in which I replied no. He then proceeded to tell me that I don't need to do anything in terms of seperating the solution chemically, he told me to simply "Heat it up"....like 20 times. He also stated that I will need borax and boric acid to mix with the glass gold solution.......I will eventually get the gold at the bottom after cooling although purity can be debated. He then said if you have any other metals in the solution this will eventually mix with the


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## Geo (Jul 14, 2015)

I apologize. I thought you were being serious. I looked at all your other post. You have been having some really bad luck, or something. First, you had http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22332 1 kilo of "weird stuff" asking questions here which later you got the answer from a prospector. Second, http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22401 you were asking about lost gold. After asking us about it and not hearing what you wanted, you found the answer yourself and went your own way without a clue. You didn't find your lost flakes did you? Thirdly and lastly so far, you have a some kind of glass,gold mixture. Again, you ask questions and ignore replies and seemed to have found your answer by your self. You are a resourceful fellow, why, you don't need the forum at all. How much gold do you think can be painted on four cups? If you had asked before you jumped in, you could have had the gold off the glass within an hour and been done with it. Well, until you figured out that there wasn't enough to reclaim. 

Are you a troll? Do you frequent forums and ask outlandish questions to see how people will answer and then later claim to have found the answer on your own because we are just not collectively knowledgeable enough to help? I am done trying to help you. I will not respond to another post from you. Good luck in your refining and I hope you figure out everything you need to know.

(Edited for spelling.)


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## justinhcase (Jul 14, 2015)

Do you mean Glass Cup's that have gold applied decoratively?
A picture would help,But if they are the kind I have come across they do not have much content and tend to be worth more intact.
There is a transparent decorative table ware that is a translucent Purple that is based on Gold ,Cranberry glass or 'Gold Ruby' glass is a red glass made by adding gold salts or colloidal gold to molten glass. Tin, in the form of stannous chloride, is sometimes added in tiny amounts as a reducing agent. The glass is used primarily in expensive decorations and the classic gold under glass that look's very decadent but is only paper thin?


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## yusuf1986 (Jul 15, 2015)

Geo, 

why are you responding? Then you call me a troll, I'm not sure if you like venting out here like that but please get counseling so you can discuss your anger or inner darkness with a professional. I said I needed help, I am resourceful because I know how to use google. For you to dig into my posting means that you have some issue that you want to deal with, all questions asked were sincere. I don't know you and have no plans on getting to know you, I let the last post slide in the last thread but you seriously have some issues...get counseling dude seriously.


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## artart47 (Jul 15, 2015)

Hi Yusuf!
Post some pictures like Justincase suggested. That would give members an idea of what you really have. From your description one can't tell is you have glass with a foil or paint over the glass, a glass with gold inside the glass just to give it color or something else.
It could be that the right process would be to crush it very fine and leach it, or might be to smelt it ...etc. I have no experience with such material but, pictures would help others who do.
Sorry to hear about your mom!
Good luck!
artart47


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## 4metals (Jul 15, 2015)

Molten glass is pretty much its own flux, I would be adding a little fluorospar to thin it maybe a bit more borax and soda ash and melting the glass and pouring into a cone mold. 

Of course this is assuming it is actually a decorative glass. A picture would answer a lot of questions.


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## solar_plasma (Jul 15, 2015)

I hear "gold dissolved in SiO2"...what? Purple glass, or what? Then "only alcohol and glass", uhm what?? Then it is just gold flakes blended into molten glass and ok, they made some cups of it. He ball milled this stuff, leached and got positive stannous...ok, now he asks for what leach he can use? What is he talking about? There is just no congruence in what he claims and asks! 

I guess Geo is right *and *I don't like the way he talks to a respectable member like Geo.


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## Anonymous (Jul 15, 2015)

Yusuf.

Geo used words that are very rarely used on forums these days. He said "I apologise." Yet you still nailed into him. That's not good.


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## nickvc (Jul 15, 2015)

My view best of luck... If it works out great if not I feel you may not get many more responses from those experienced refiners!


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 15, 2015)

yusuf1986 said:


> Geo,
> 
> why are you responding? Then you call me a troll, I'm not sure if you like venting out here like that but please get counseling so you can discuss your anger or inner darkness with a professional. I said I needed help, I am resourceful because I know how to use google. For you to dig into my posting means that you have some issue that you want to deal with, all questions asked were sincere. I don't know you and have no plans on getting to know you, I let the last post slide in the last thread but you seriously have some issues...get counseling dude seriously.


yusuf,

Please take care in how you post here. I understand you're reacting to what others have said, but you've taken it a step further. We don't have a lot of rules here, but we do take then seriously. They're all in the Board Policy-------This should be read by everyone post.

What applies here is "Be sympathetic to other members. There will be zero tolerance for personal attacks on the board. If you are at odds with another, feel free to have a polite debate, but temper your words with wisdom. Post your position, doing so by sticking to the subject at hand. Do not make your comments personal in nature. Flaming is not permitted. No one will be allowed to attack the character of another."

I understand you may have taken offense at the question as to whether you are a troll. Try to understand that we get a bit of that on this forum. Geo is a respected member here and his question was legitimate.

Your post crosses the line into a personal attack when you tell someone they have issues and need to get counseling. When we suspect someone's intentions here, our long term members tend to review their previous posts. That's exactly what Geo did as a concerned member.

We're all here to help, including Geo, who has helped many. You've come here and asked for help. Members have given suggestions, and asked for more information and pictures. I haven't seen you answer those questions so others can help.

If you're here to learn, respond to the questions people ask. Say thank you when they try to help, even if you don't like the answer. If you have a different purpose in being here, your stay will be short.

Dave


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## butcher (Jul 16, 2015)

Gold in SiO2 solution? 

Is the gold actually in solution? If so what was used to put the gold into solution with silicon dioxide?
Then you discuss gold in glass, and melting the glass, or dissolving it, is the gold in the glass, or is it plated onto the glass?

Your discription of the material and your ideas of recovery make it hard for anyone to help you, you do not give a good discription of what you have, you then lead them to certain ways of thinking with your ideas. 
Dissolving glass, smelting, leaching...



Geo was correct, you need to study, so that you can learn enough to be able to ask a question that makes enough sense, so that the members who try and help you, can have an idea of what you actually have, or what you have done, or what your trying to do, to be able to give you any kind of decent answer.

You have not told us what you have, gold in solution, gold melted into glass, or gold plated onto glass or ceramic, or some other odd ball thing.

You have not provided any pictures as suggested, or provided any decent discription of the material, to give anyone a clue as to what you may be trying to discribe.

The answer may be simple but without knowing what the question actually is, or the material actually is, your not going to get anywhere with this, or a helpful answer.

Geo was trying to help, you now owe him an apollogy, for your rudeness. 

Study so you know enough to ask an intellegent question, provide better details (pictures, or discription), also understand members like Geo are trying to help where they can.

Just as I hope my reply here will help you.


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## yusuf1986 (Jul 16, 2015)

Thanks for all of the responses, I appreciate the help. I can confirm and say the that the amount of help is greater than the criticism on here. Upon melting the solution I got 3.4 grams of gold, not a lot compared to how much glass was present. From now on when I post my questions I will provide an image, hopefully this will change the dynamics of the question. As to the whole situation with the other member, please remember that even though I've heard many praises on the said member I sincerely believe that calling someone a troll is offensive. I noticed that several posts are leaning towards geo's expertise but I never disrespected him in the first place and I believe he should have gotten an equal or possibly a greater emphasized warning since he launched the attack on another thread and again on this thread, I understand that the forum isn't trying to lose a respected member but I also think that the 'little guy' doesn't need to be criticized by everyone for not knowing what to do, even though it may be constructive to tell someone that he is lost....we need to be tolerant in that these posts consist of words and some words may spark emotions that may be unwanted.
Much respect to those who help and keep it positive! 8)


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## Geo (Jul 16, 2015)

I am going to suspend what I said about not responding to you. Like you said, I don't know you and have no intention of ever knowing you. That doesn't change the fact that I am concerned with your well being. You see, I know what this stuff can do to your health. There are a few things that is very apparent. You do not know enough about this subject to be trying to refine. You do not know enough about this subject to talk about it coherently. you do not know enough about this subject to ask informed questions. You do not know enough about this subject to understand the answers. This is not an attack nor is it an insult, just a fact. Ignorance of a subject does not make one stupid, just ignorant. From your username, I assume you are 29 years old. That should mean that your are old enough to tell a question from a statement. I never called you a troll, I asked if you were one. For you, this forum is just a place and the people here is just faceless, nameless people at a keyboard. To me it is home and the people here is my family. The members who have spoken up for me did not do it out of any special consideration (thank you guys), if I were wrong, I would be told quickly to mend my ways. I don't feel you owe me an apology because there's nothing you can say that would offend me but that's not my call. I studied on this forum for over a year before I tried to truly refine but I do understand being impatient. I am a staunch believer in tolerance of new members. That tolerance is short lived if the new member refuses to try and learn for themselves. When you were first told to read Hoke's book (which is a free download from the forum) you made a joke about it. That's okay if you think you can refine without it, which you obviously can't. Where you see me attacking you, I see me being concerned about your health and trying to guide you in the right direction. Sometimes I am gruff and can't phrase my thoughts as well as I should and for that I apologize. If you want to learn how to refine, you should stop trying to refine and start reading. Stop being impatient and study. I have been in some form of gold recovery and refining for about as long as you have been alive. I can only hope that some day you will do something that will surprise me and actually learn how to refine.


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## solar_plasma (Jul 17, 2015)

> Upon melting the solution I got 3.4 grams of gold, not a lot compared to how much glass was present.



Start learning what the word "solution" means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solution

There is no such thing as "gold dissolved in SiO2"!

As a colloid it has been used to give glass purple color. Read "colloid": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloid

If you can see the golden flakes in that glass, it is no solution, but it is just gold molten into glas.

The last one is the only case, that makes any sense. You may not be a troll, but by refusing to learn, persistently using wrong terms and talking inadequately to helpful, earned and respected members, you ARE in fact functionally trolling!


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## kuma (Jul 19, 2015)

Hi all, I've just come across this vase online with gold inlaid and it reminded me of this thread, is this the kind of material that you were alluding too Yusuf?

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Handcrafted-Gold-Glass-Vase-by-Lesley-Ray-22887031.html

Purely out if interest, 

Chris


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## yusuf1986 (Jul 19, 2015)

Kuma, that's exactly how it looked like. I think that it's the fact that everyone thought it was purple gold which stated as Cassius or purple of cassius. 
Geo, I take your apology sincerely. I had a friend who had aspergers who took an online class and eventually got kicked out, nicest guy ever but the disorder keeps him from having any type of emotions. His criticisms were to the point and eventually insulted the professor, the basic notion that we type somethings and send it out is a bit puzzling because there really is no tone. I appreciate your experience and I could totally understand where you're coming from, my brother is a pharmacist and witnessed a building fire while in school because of some student forgetting to remember that nitrates are really not friendly towards organic materials. So, thanks again and no I have no intentions of developing isotopes of cesium :lol: lol


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## kuma (Jul 19, 2015)

I thought as much, it was the first time I'd seen anything like it, but like I say, it reminded me of this thread and it seemed to make sense,

Chris 

Edit to add, I knew exactly what Geo was referring to when he mentioned 'beer bottles', I remember that giggle, I mean thread, well, :lol:


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