# Platinum Photography



## rusty (Jul 7, 2012)

The scrap car business was kind to me before the metal prices droped outa sight. Of the many things I may have mentiioned that I had plans for and never started or left incompleted. I'm diving into this large format photography deep.

So far have made the purchase of the following, Cambo 8 x 10 large format camera with Kodak commercial lens along with a dozen film holders plus a reducing back. If you've never held an 8 X 10 in your hands you have no idea how large and heavy this camera is. It's definatly not suited for feild work and should remain in the studio.

Next on the camera list is a Camo SC 4 x 5 which shipped with film holders, and a pair of len's one suited for wide angle the other for macro work.

This afternoon bought a Megavision digital scan back with an adaptor to fit my Cambo 4 x 5., this puppy is going to produce some huge files, but sure beats having to send out negatives to be scanned on a drum scanner. My 8 x 12 negatives for the moment will be sent out for scanning.

This question is directed at Joem, I'm leaning towards the HP Z3200PS wide format printer in either the 24 inch or 44 inch model with post script. Most of my work will be printing out photos or producing negatives to be used in contact platinum printing.

The 8 x 10 negatives once scanned will produce a 40 x 50 print without any loss of definition. Joem do you think I've made the right choice with the HP printer, one guy is trying to sell me an Epson.


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## joem (Jul 7, 2012)

rusty said:


> The scrap car business was kind to me before the metal prices droped outa sight. Of the many things I may have mentiioned that I had plans for and never started or left incompleted. I'm diving into this large format photography deep.
> 
> So far have made the purchase of the following, Cambo 8 x 10 large format camera with Kodak commercial lens along with a dozen film holders plus a reducing back. If you've never held an 8 X 10 in your hands you have no idea how large and heavy this camera is. It's definatly not suited for feild work and should remain in the studio.
> 
> ...




Being that platinum printing is very old and I am not a photographer I can only answer some of the printing needs. We run an Espon driven wide format printer at work for cmyk printing. It has given us absolutly no issues in years. Compared between the both of us you may run directly from your computer but we run with an apogeeX rip ( for proper colour output) but our rip is designed for cmyk/ spot colour printing. Important notes on buying used are:
the print heads maintained and cleaned regularly
Ink has not been allowed to dry ( not as much a problem, ours has sat for months between use)
Proper paper ( substrate) is used.
Guides and straps are not worn or cracked
This stock machine comes with 256mg memory and 80 gigs storage, more is needed if file sizes grow more than this. For example one page of the foil book can be over 125 megs.
see link 
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ga/WF06b/18972-18972-3328061-3328079-3328079-3737540-3737567.html?dnr=1
We have found a conversion to TIFF from Jpeg produces a much better colour results but again our output needs are that of printing to a press not photography.
That's all I know.


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## rusty (Jul 7, 2012)

joem said:


> rusty said:
> 
> 
> > The scrap car business was kind to me before the metal prices droped outa sight. Of the many things I may have mentiioned that I had plans for and never started or left incompleted. I'm diving into this large format photography deep.
> ...



The days of $500.00 / 100 meg hard drives are long gone we now have huge SSD drives reasonbly priced. I'm not concerned about file size and can well imagine a scanned 10 x 12 color print is going to have a serious pixel count generating a huge file. This is the digital age.

You've given me the specs for the HP printer which I have already, been in contact with a rep out of Missisauga earlier in the week he quoted me a decent price for a non post script 44 inch pinter. I was just hoping that you had some previous experiance with this large format printer.


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## joem (Jul 7, 2012)

We run all epson at work, well because they are epson and a quality print driver. If I had a choice I would go with the epson, but it's not as simple as choice because like apple vs pc people will go with what is familiar and causes the least amount of head aches. I went back and re-read your post and have come up to a conclusion; It's not what machine you use to create something that will sell, it's how well the image looks to a buyer. SO if this forum has taught you something it's test and see results. Take a few files you created and ask each seller to print them off for you to see what looks the best. About file size, it will run as slow as the slowest connection in your chain of hardware.


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## rusty (Jul 7, 2012)

joem said:


> We run all epson at work, well because they are epson and a quality print driver. If I had a choice I would go with the epson, but it's not as simple as choice because like apple vs pc people will go with what is familiar and causes the least amount of head aches. I went back and re-read your post and have come up to a conclusion; It's not what machine you use to create something that will sell, it's how well the image looks to a buyer. SO if this forum has taught you something it's test and see results. Take a few files you created and ask each seller to print them off for you to see what looks the best. About file size, it will run as slow as the slowest connection in your chain of hardware.



Point taken poblem is due to cost and demand no one has inventory let along a floor demo model. Pretty much the way the world as gone these days so I have to rely on folks who have used he HP Z3200. to get the pros and cons of this printer.

Consumer reports give the HP a standing aplause with its 12 independent ink cartridges for photo work. I agree Epson poineered print drvers with many printer manufactures emulating the Epson driver but that was way back when every one was still using Wndows 3 and 3.11 which is also history. Gee I'm showing my age.

A gallery in Nippogon Ont uses an Epson his smalle prints look alright but with his larher prints it's evident of definaition losses. The guy is using a 12 meg digital camera where he sould be using upwards 33 megs. And people are are happy buying this crap, I want a supourior print and that 10 x12 inch negative will give it to me. But then I'm targeting a different market were quality is demanded.

The 4 x 5 Cambo is to get my feet wet, mistakes are not as costly for begining. Besides an 11" x 14 print is acceptable.in platinum ot any other choice of doped paper.

Think I'll go with the HP Z3200ps 44" model.


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## rusty (Jul 8, 2012)

The HP blog on printing a large negative used for platinum printing. http://h30507.www3.hp.com/t5/Professional-Photography/bg-p/147/label-name/platinum printing


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 8, 2012)

Gill, just an idea that you might research,

Most of these wide format printers (including the HP, I think) can also be used to print on thin adhesive vinyl, in rolls, for use inside or outside in the sign industry - banners, billboards, vehicles, etc. I'm pretty sure it would require a special ink for outside, though. I was thinking it might provide you with a side business to help pay for this monster. I may be wrong, but I would think that there are a lot of small sign shops that don't have this equipment. Maybe you could provide a printing service for some of these guys. They would provide you with the artwork on disk. You print it. For most of this type stuff, you would probably charge by the square foot.

Here's a Canon printer pdf I found on a sign supply site.
http://www.usa.canon.com/app/pdf/printer/imagePROGRAF_Full_Line_Brochure.pdf

Vans:
http://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&q=wide+format+vinyl+signs&oq=wide+format+vinyl+signs&gs_l=img.3...4056.20874.0.21751.23.8.0.15.15.0.118.776.7j1.8.0...0.0.z8hj_-3Wvus&biw=1116&bih=463&sei=Z7r5T7qxL-_22AXrhNQ8#hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=wide+format+vinyl+signs+van&oq=wide+format+vinyl+signs+van&gs_l=img.3...49718.51379.0.51904.4.1.0.3.0.0.93.93.1.1.0...0.0.-7BrhX0WVek&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=91b2865717af36d9&biw=1116&bih=463

Other stuff:
http://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&q=wide+format+graphics&oq=wide+format+graphics&gs_l=img.3...2708.17008.0.18375.20.8.0.12.12.0.99.645.8.8.0...0.0.4N6nV8I7H64&biw=1116&bih=463&sei=E7v5T5KEIK6I2gXootz0Bg


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## Irons2 (Jul 8, 2012)

Metal replacement toning

Metal replacement toners replace the metallic silver, through a series of chemical reactions, with a ferrocyanide salt of a transition metal. Some metals, such as platinum or gold can protect the image. Others, such as iron (blue toner) or copper (red toner) may reduce the lifetime of the image.[citation needed]

Metal replacement toning with gold alone results in a blue-black tone. It is often combined with a sepia toner to produce a more attractive orange-red tone. The archival Gold Protective Solution (GP-1) formula uses a 1% gold chloride stock solution with sodium or potassium thiocyanate.[7] It is sometimes used to split tone photographs previously toned in selenium for artistic purposes.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_print_toning

Or this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinotype

Platinum prints, also called platinotypes, are photographic prints made by a monochrome printing process that provides the greatest tonal range of any printing method using chemical development.

Platinum prints are made by photographers and favored by collectors because of their tonal range, the surface quality and their permanence. A platinum print provides a broad scale of tones from black to white. The platinum tones range from warm black, to reddish brown, to expanded mid-tone grays that are unobtainable in silver prints[citation needed].

Unlike the silver print process, platinum lies on the paper surface, while silver lies in a gelatin or albumen emulsion that coats the paper. As a result, since no gelatin emulsion is used, the final platinum image is absolutely matte with a deposit of platinum (and/or palladium, its sister element which is also used in most platinum photographs) absorbed slightly into the paper.[1]

Platinum prints are the most durable of all photographic processes. The platinum group metals are very stable against chemical reactions that might degrade the print—even more stable than gold. It is estimated that a platinum image, properly made, can last thousands of years.[1] Some of the desirable characteristics of a platinum print include:

An absolutely non-reflective surface of the prints, unlike more typical glossy prints.
A very delicate, large tonal range.
Not being coated with gelatin, the prints do not exhibit the tendency to curl.
The darkest possible tones in the prints are still lighter than silver-based prints. Recent studies have this attributed to an optical illusion produced by the gelatin coating on RC and fiber-based papers. Platinotypes that have been waxed or varnished will produce images that appear to have greater D-max than silver prints.
A greatly decreased susceptibility to deterioration compared to silver-based prints due to the stability of the process and because they are commonly printed on 100% rag papers.


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## rusty (Jul 8, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> Gill, just an idea that you might research,
> 
> Most of these wide format printers (including the HP, I think) can also be used to print on thin adhesive vinyl, in rolls, for use inside or outside in the sign industry - banners, billboards, vehicles, etc. I'm pretty sure it would require a special ink for outside, though. I was thinking it might provide you with a side business to help pay for this monster. I may be wrong, but I would think that there are a lot of small sign shops that don't have this equipment. Maybe you could provide a printing service for some of these guys. They would provide you with the artwork on disk. You print it. For most of this type stuff, you would probably charge by the square foot.
> 
> ...



Links 2 and 3 very inpressve sighnage, no compassisom to your carved sighns which are true works of art.

Years ago I fooled with 35 mm then abandoned the hobby to cloth and feed my dependents, now that I have disocovered large format photogaphy using platinum as an altenative printing process have become obsessed with the quality of the images. Combine this with the digital world your only limited by your imagination.

I'm gambling that what I have in mind will soon pay for this printer, it's not like I'm charging it to my credit card.

The gods work in mysterious ways, Pat told me last summer that she was moving back to B.C. this event took palce several weeks back. She purchased a 32 ft Class A motor home and has now decided she wants to come back. The motor home fits perfectly into my plans for open road photgraphy, wished I could elaborate more on this but prefer to keep my plans confidenctial for the moment.
.
My decision has been made to go with the HP Z3200 printer, they have invested plenty of reseach and development towards the alternitive printing process to make the extra cost well worth while.

Yes GSP the HP will print onto adhesive vinyl, silk and canvas, the local building inspector has the sighnage market covered.

I do wish to extend my gratitude and thanks to Noxx for starting the gold forum, with out it I would never have discovered the use of platinum in photography


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## rusty (Jul 8, 2012)

Irons2 said:


> Metal replacement toning
> 
> Metal replacement toners replace the metallic silver, through a series of chemical reactions, with a ferrocyanide salt of a transition metal. Some metals, such as platinum or gold can protect the image. Others, such as iron (blue toner) or copper (red toner) may reduce the lifetime of the image.[citation needed]
> 
> ...



Forum members should take the time to learn how to recognose a platinotype, we found one hidden behind a framed picture when the backing was removed.

During the contrucion of the CN railway a notible photographer recorded events such as tunnels and bridges being built, the particular photo Pat found was of a tunnel in the Fraser Canyon, she got over $600.00 on ebay. The box of picture frames came from the landfill sat untouched in our basement for over a year before the discovery of the photo.

You just never know when and where good fortune wil strike. Many of these old platinum prints are overlooked at estate and yard sales.


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## rusty (Jul 11, 2012)

Found a brand new forty four inch HP Z3220PS for $4975.00 which I ordered this morning, should be here Tues of next week. Not a bad price considering the Sony A900 camera body used are selling anywhere from 2 to $3,000.00.

The Sony A900 is a full frame digital 24 megapixels, this camera accept AF ( auto focus ) lenses from older Minolta 35 mm camera's.


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## rusty (Jul 16, 2012)

Picked up the HP Z3200ps printer this afternoon along with a nice Sony A900 24 digital camera, now to assemble the brute and find a home for it.

The load of scrap going into the city paid for everything including lunch.


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## rusty (Jul 17, 2012)

Working the printer up to height so that I can install the stand and paper tray. Almost need forklift to lift this brute.


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## dcorley001 (Jul 21, 2012)

Your making me jealous Rusty. I used to make direct contacts from my 8x10 negs then copy them with a Polaroid MP system so I could enlarge them on my 4x5 enlarger. Used an wooden Eastman 2D with an extension bellows for some of my field stuff. Had a 12inch Commercial Ektar hanging on the front end. Chromes shot on 50 asa Fuji Velvia at 8x10 are gorgeous. Still have a monorail 4x5 and holders hanging around somewhere but my lab went away long ago. Know anyone who needs some 5x7 cfh's?


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## Palladium (Jul 21, 2012)

I don't even want to know what a printer cartridge cost ?


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## rusty (Oct 3, 2012)

Palladium said:


> I don't even want to know what a printer cartridge cost ?



Each print - paper and ink works out to about $0.85 square ft..

I must thank Joem for mentioning that he uses a RIP application, after researching its purpose ordered mine this evening. The RIP software cost almost half of what I paid for the printer - ouch.

On a side note I'll be cutting my own picture frame stock and needed a good miter saw, so I bought the Milwaukee 12" compound which is manufactured in Taiwan. 

The saw cut a perfect 45* angle right out of the box, couldn't ask for a better saw.

Best Regards
Rusty


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## rusty (Oct 26, 2012)

Joem sending PM's does not work from my computer the spam blocker is blocking anything I send so it's public.

I'm looking to purchase an IT8 reflective scan target, could possibly use a transparency. If you have a spare to part with let me know how much I can PP payment.

Best Regards
Gill

Please disregard, found my target hidden inside the Xrite package.


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## joem (Oct 26, 2012)

ok, just keep yours air tight and light sealed when not in use


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