# Gold Recovery Help(Sodium Bisulphite not doing its thing)



## Innos (Jul 20, 2016)

Hello everyone,first post here,sorry its a cry for help...

As the title suggests,Ive added 25 grams of sodium bisulphite in aqua regia that consisted of 600 ml of water and 600 ml of hcl(33%) and about 20 ml of nitric acid.

This is my first attempt at a gold recovery process so the amounts and possibly method is off but you can never be sure when it comes to internet info so I sorta winged it.

I boiled it and it dissolved stuff pretty well,especially the gold.

I expect the yield to be between 5-15,but i added 25 grams to be on the safe side.

The "metal eating" process with copper 2 chloride was done pretty well in my very uninformed opinion so I don't think any left over metals are causing an issue,except maybe rhodium or platinum thats also in the solution.


The problem is,nothing is precipitating....please help.

"""But you must add your nitric to HCl in VERY TINY AMOUNTS with plenty of PATIENCE, or you will find it impossible to precipitate the gold out of an excessively-nitric solution.
""""
Is this my problem?its a quote from a forum member.


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## everydayisalesson (Jul 20, 2016)

It very well could be your problem but you really didn't give that good of a description as to what you did to get here.
What was your starting material 
Do you use heat to put your gold in solution 
Did you test your solution with stannous chloride 
After dissolving your material did you evaporate your solution 
We need to know more about your situation before anyone can help you. Also, please use the search function for CM Hokes book as every answer you need is in there and can help you get started while your waiting for replies. Your gold is not going anywhere, just make sure it is in a safe location.


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## kernels (Jul 20, 2016)

Nitric acid left in the solution is almost certainly your problem. You didn't specify how you denoxxed your solution, so I assume you didn't do anything to remove the excess nitric ?

I've tried every way under the sun and always return to evaporation to a syrupy consistency (as per Hoke), followed by HCl addition (x3)
I also like to add whatever gold buttons I have lying around into the evaporating mixture to consume the excess nitric (by putting more gold into solution). When you gain a bit of experience, you can basically cut the process down to a single evaporation with gold.


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## jason_recliner (Jul 21, 2016)

Was that sodium bisulfite (NaHSO3), or sodium metabisulfite (Na2S2O5)?

Please would you confirm for us?


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## Innos (Jul 21, 2016)

Wow,so many helpful replies in one day,truly an amazing community I must say!Props to you guys.

Anyway,I'll describe the whole process as concisely possible.

I tore apart 180 phones,of which 150 had gold plated keyboards,discarded the 30 with no gold,separated even the tiniest gold plated pins.Also I separated gold plated stuff from other electronic scrap,around 10 hard drives and 20 other computer components.
The reason I expect such a high yield is most of the phones were very old,even ancient,back then I assume gold plating techniques were not so advanced.
Also fyi I removed all the other components on the phones so I don't contaminate the process too much.I removed them by heating them up and scrapping off the components with the flat back of a butter knife(so I don't scrape off the gold)
Since I had a bunch of thick pins and whatnots I placed all the stuff in a bucket with copper chloride and hcl for 14 days with lots and lots of oxygen for the reaction.
I got all the gold filtered together with the debris and put it all in the aqua regia I described above.
P.S. i heated the aqua regia to boiling point and added lots of nitric because some of the plastic wasn't giving in.After it reached boiling I tapered it down just a little bit and kept it there.

The solution is currently stored in a garage,in a beaker with a watchglass over it.The garage is connected to my apartment so I vent it out everyday,just to be on the safe side.(The tempetures in the garage reach up to 30 C during the day,I hope thats not an issue)

Now the questions,No I didn't denoxx my solution...Considering my situation,what do you guys think the best denoxxing process?
I have some gold pieces I was going to sell or purify myself,theyre 14 carrat however.Would they do?
I could always remove the other metals with copper chloride afterwards.

I didnt test my solution with stannous chloride nor I have any....
I did not evaporate my soluton after dissolving it.

I used sodium metabisulfite (Na2S2O5) to precipitate,is that good,or a total fiasco?


Thanks again for all the help!


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## everydayisalesson (Jul 21, 2016)

OK Innos, you have a mess. The first issue I see that you should try to figure out is your solution really needs to be outside. You could slowly be poisoning yourself and your family and probably damaging everything in your garage. I have only three years in this so I cannot really give you the advice you need except that you need to read Hokes book. Hopefully one of our guys will jump in and help.

Mike


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jul 21, 2016)

You're using the right precipitant, unless its gone bad. My supplier told me, if it smells bad then its good, but if it starts to smell good it has gone bad.. Woft a small smell, dont just go straight to face with it.

You need to denox, it is a requirement.
Evaporate, or dissolve more gold, or use sulfamic acid. There are a great number of threads on each of those options.


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## kernels (Jul 21, 2016)

Hi Innos, from above, it sounds like you had plastic parts in there and were trying to attack them with nitric acid ? Roughly how much nitric acid did you use all-up ? What does the solution look like now ? a Picture would be good for us.


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## Innos (Jul 21, 2016)

As far as the slowly poisoning part,hopefully not,It is a huge garage and I left a hatch open a little bit.It is a risk,so I'd like to end this process as fast as possible.

The smell of metabisulphite is very strong but not bad in any way....Nostrils kinda burn when inhaled so I guess its still good?heh

""Hi Innos, from above, it sounds like you had plastic parts in there and were trying to attack them with nitric acid ""
Definitely,
I used about 20 mililiters of nitric acid,not more,on 1200 mls of water/hcl solution.

I will deliver a picture tomorrow.It is dark green.

I will dennox it then,however is my situation and procedure changed,since ive already added 25 grams of metabisulphite?


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## kernels (Jul 21, 2016)

OK, so a few mistakes, but not the worst we've seen, you should still be able to recover some gold.

Firstly, everything you do from now on will create fumes, these fumes will corrode anything metal and can damage you health, if you can smell it when you walk into your workshop, you need better ventilation.

So, this is what I would do . . . 

1. Filter the solution through at least 2 coffee filters to get rid of any debris, the SMB already used will not be a problem, but I have no idea what the results of dissolving plastic with nitric is, this may gunk up your filter and make filtering take a long time.

2. Get a large, wide-mouth evaporation dish and start evaporating off the solution. You want to keep the temperature around the 75-90 degree C range. Don't boil the solution. I use a hot-plate and 2000mL pyrex (kitchen) jug for this. Obviously, anything that touches the solution will never be used for kitchen duties again.

3. The evaporation will take a whole day, when the solution gets down to the bottom, there will be lots of crystals forming from your used SMB and whatever else might be in there. When it gets down to the bottom, keep swirling the solution every 2 minutes to prevent a hard crust from forming. 

4. When the solution becomes viscous (gooey, syrupy), add a small amount of concentrated HCl and swirl it around, there should be some bubbles forming for a short time. Maybe around 50mL HCl

5. Repeat the evaporation and HCl addition at least 2 more times.

6. Now, you should have a solution with some gold in it that no longer has nitric in it. After the last evaporation, add about 100mL of HCl and about 10 ice cubes. Wait for the ice cubes to melt and start filtering the solution slowly through 3 coffee filters. Filter the solution back and forth between two beakers at least 3 times, this should remove most of the smaller particles. 

7. Your solution should now be very clear, warm your solution to around 30 degree C

8. In a separate beaker, dissolve 10g of SMB in 100mL boiling water.

9. Stir your solution and add the SMB, within about 2 to 20 seconds, the solution should change color and then turn dark, this is the gold dropping out of solution.

Good luck!


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## kernels (Jul 21, 2016)

And I would almost guarantee you won't get anywhere near 15g of gold, maybe 5g if you're lucky.


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 21, 2016)

What type phones are you talking about? Crank? Dial? Push button? Cell? The term "antique" is a subjective one. I've been doing this since 1966 and, at that time, gold plating was about the same thickness as it is today. Like today, this mainly depends on whether or not it's a wear surface. Fingers and pins were plated with about 30 microinches of gold in 1966 and they are plated with 30 microinches of gold in 2016. Also, the chemistry of the gold plating solutions back then was, essentially, the same as it is today. And, as today, they didn't waste gold in 1966 - they knew how much they needed for a particular application and they didn't exceed that. A big difference today is that equipment has improved so that gold can be plated only where it is needed. For example, many pins are gold plated only on the contact point.

Get some tin solder or stannous chloride and make up a stannous chloride solution? 

After AR was used, if there was ANY base metal remaining, there is always the possibility that the dissolved gold cemented onto the base metals and is still with the solids.

At one point, you said you only used 20ml of nitric in 1200ml of AR solution but, elsewhere, you said you used a lot of nitric. Which is right? I don't really consider 20ml a lot in 1200ml of solution. Assuming you've tested the solution and know that it contains gold, I would first try adding another 25g of SMB or, better still, measure out 1/10 of the solution and add 2.5g of SMB. If that drops the gold, add 22.5g of SMB to the remaining 9/10 of the solution.


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## Innos (Jul 21, 2016)

I put 20 ml of nitric,I thought thats a lot since people are going crazy over the amounts of nitric but thats what I I calculated is the least amount for around 5-10 grams of gold and 1200 ml of aqua.

As far as the age of the phones,that is excellent information,that the layer is the same thickness back in 1966 as in 2016,but it is as you said,today very little gold is used because they use it exactly where they need it.

With older phones however,youve got gigantic keyboards plated very well with gold,also some other stuff,pins and such.Some older phones had this squareish pin that was very clearly plated with a lot more gold than other stuff,unfortunately I have no more of them,id post a picture otherwise.

One of the phones was a benefon with a gigantic battery,so it must have been pre 90s I guess,other phones were a bit "younger" thought,between this benefon and nokia 3310.

I did not test the AR solution for gold,but since i put in a lot gold stuff in it,and now its a clear liquid,id say testing is unneccesary.

Excellent idea goldsilverpro I will try that first,takes the least effort and second,if it doesnt work,I will try kernels recipe,sounds very well thought out(Already written it down in my chem book),thank you very much for the info,everyone.

I will keep you guys posted so that even if its all solved and good,someone else has the benefit of knowing how to fix this exact situation.Tomorrow youll get a picture  

One question thought,what about denoxxing with sulfamic acid and 14carat gold,which I later purify with a treatment of copper chloride?


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## Innos (Jul 21, 2016)

goldsilverpro said:


> What type phones are you talking about? Crank? Dial? Push button? Cell? The term "antique" is a subjective one.



Mobile phones,like the one in your pocket  ,just old,with lots of gold.


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## Innos (Jul 21, 2016)

kernels said:


> 2. Get a large, wide-mouth evaporation dish and start evaporating off the solution. You want to keep the temperature around the 75-90 degree C range. Don't boil the solution. I use a hot-plate and 2000mL pyrex (kitchen) jug for this. Obviously, anything that touches the solution will never be used for kitchen duties again.
> 
> 3. The evaporation will take a whole day, when the solution gets down to the bottom, there will be lots of crystals forming from your used SMB and whatever else might be in there. When it gets down to the bottom, keep swirling the solution every 2 minutes to prevent a hard crust from forming.



Honestly,I dont like the idea of evaporating a solution that has dissolved gold in it,it sounds like losses to me,and Im already pessimistic about the possible gold amount so I will do this as a last chance,however it does seem to me ill do it nevertheless,not many better options.


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## UncleBenBen (Jul 21, 2016)

Innos said:


> I did not test the AR solution for gold,but since i put in a lot gold stuff in it,and now its a clear liquid,id say testing is unneccesary



Testing your solutions is always necessary!

Example: I place an amount of gold plated boards in a vessel. I add HCl and heat. I then add nitric acid to create aqua regia. The solution is at a light boil as I watch the gold dissolve. Once the gold is gone I remove from heat and allow to cool. Once the boards are removed, I heat it back up and test with a pinch of sulfamic acid and get no reaction. 

Since I saw the gold dissolve and know there is no free nitric I cool, filter and add SMB and nothing. Yet I saw the gold dissolve so I didn't test with stannous.

What happened? As the last of the nitric was used up the boiling solution loosened the layers of the boards exposing plenty enough copper to cement all the values inside the boards....

This may be what happened it may not be. My point is always test. Make it a habit. Make it standard procedure. But always test your solutions!


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## kernels (Jul 22, 2016)

Innos said:


> kernels said:
> 
> 
> > 2. Get a large, wide-mouth evaporation dish and start evaporating off the solution. You want to keep the temperature around the 75-90 degree C range. Don't boil the solution. I use a hot-plate and 2000mL pyrex (kitchen) jug for this. Obviously, anything that touches the solution will never be used for kitchen duties again.
> ...



And this is why it's hard to get a nice detailed answer to a question on this forum. Someone with zero experience asks a question, you give them a detailed step-by-step answer, then they decide that they actually know better. :lol:


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jul 22, 2016)

OP whay do you mean by use 14k then purify with copper chloride later?

How do you know there is even gold to prexipitate without a stannous test?
-you said your solution is green, that means heavy base metal contamination, which usually means the gold is trying to cement out while base metals go into solution.

And there is a good way besides evaporation.
-sulfamic acid. Its quick, cheap, and easy.


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## jason_recliner (Jul 22, 2016)

kernels said:


> Innos said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly,I dont like the idea of evaporating a solution that has dissolved gold in it,it sounds like losses to me,and Im already pessimistic about the possible gold amount so I will do this as a last chance,however it does seem to me ill do it nevertheless,not many better options.
> ...


I don't have a problem with questioning what he doesn't understand. I've certainly been there myself.

Innos,
Boiling the hell out of it will splatter it all over the place. But evaporating at a moderate temperature as directed will not lose your gold. 
Gold does not vaporise at 90°C.

The intent is to gently evaporate, not boil, to concentrate the syrup to the point where fresh HCl will react with any existing nitric; this releases NOx as gasses.
Slow and steady wins this race.


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## g_axelsson (Jul 22, 2016)

This thread made me feel ancient, I'm too is pre 90s. :lol: 



Innos said:


> I did not test the AR solution for gold,but since i put in a lot gold stuff in it,and now its a clear liquid,id say testing is unneccesary.



Testing is vital. I admit that I don't test regularly myself while refining, only when I suspect there might be gold in the wrong place. But on the other hand I don't have any problem with precipitating my gold either and anything with possible precious metals in solution goes to my stock pot. The two areas where I use testing the most is to check anything that I move to the waste stream and to test some incoming materials for precious metals.

Innos, if you have a problem you should test. Making stannous isn't hard and you have everything needed at home already. Even solder from electronic scrap can be used. I've done it.
If you are too lazy to make the effort to test your solution people might feel less motivated to help you, you have to put some effort into it yourself.

With nitric acid and some gold plated scrap it's just an hour to make some gold standard solution to test your stannous too.

Göran


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## Innos (Jul 22, 2016)

kernels said:


> And this is why it's hard to get a nice detailed answer to a question on this forum. Someone with zero experience asks a question, you give them a detailed step-by-step answer, then they decide that they actually know better. :lol:



No kernels!
I'm very grateful for your step by step!Really!
Please don't let my misunderstood comment stop you from helping other people,because you clearly have lots of experience,from what I can gather.

To be absolutely honest,other projects have caught up with me and I do not have a whole day to stand around and monitor the evaporation,I might in a while,but I want to finish this as fast as possible due to vapors in my garage.
Again thank you for the step by step,I will definitely use it,this time or next!


Innos,
Boiling the hell out of it will splatter it all over the place. But evaporating at a moderate temperature as directed will not lose your gold. 
[/quote]

 now I know.


Topher_osAUrus said:


> OP whay do you mean by use 14k then purify with copper chloride later?



I have some jewelry I meant to purify,turn into 24 carat powder,they are 14 carat pieces,thats why I meant purifying the rest of the metals with copper chloride after the precipitation,however from what I can remember SMB precipitation is gold(and platinum?)specific so this might be unneccesary then?All in all I suggest that maybe I could drop some jewerly pieces into the AR,to dennox.

Gonna put up the photos now.


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## Innos (Jul 22, 2016)

photos: http://pho.to/AEEKg
I ordered sulfamic to dennox and stannous to test,it will take awhile though.


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## Refining Rick (Jul 22, 2016)

That is a lot of acid.


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## Platdigger (Jul 22, 2016)

This is just a thought, but, if it is possible to break down plastic with nitric or AR,
you now would have petroleum products also in solution.


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 22, 2016)

Innos said:


> kernels said:
> 
> 
> > And this is why it's hard to get a nice detailed answer to a question on this forum. Someone with zero experience asks a question, you give them a detailed step-by-step answer, then they decide that they actually know better. :lol:
> ...



 now I know.


Topher_osAUrus said:


> OP whay do you mean by use 14k then purify with copper chloride later?



I have some jewelry I meant to purify,turn into 24 carat powder,they are 14 carat pieces,thats why I meant purifying the rest of the metals with copper chloride after the precipitation,however from what I can remember SMB precipitation is gold(and platinum?)specific so this might be unneccesary then?All in all I suggest that maybe I could drop some jewerly pieces into the AR,to dennox.

Gonna put up the photos now.[/quote]
Its ok, if you have other things to do. During evaporation process. 
As I'm myself am very freash to the gold recovery scean. My first run of a pregnant solution I added a little to much nitric. It's not like evaporating water, just turn it on and let it boil. You put it on at a slight simmer, so you don't boil off your gold. (from what I was told) At this rate of evaporation you can do pretty much whatever you want. As long as it's done in a safe place away from children and pets and secure. I went to work and came home to still have to wait some more. Maybe I had the heat to low. But it work out. As much as I want to watch it all happen. It takes time. If you get in to much of a hurry you will loose values and cause can problems. Relax and take it slow. Waiting for it to evap isn't that bad and it saves a buck on the use safulmic.
I got in a hurry and I believe I lost at least 3g of Au. Not anymore. If I loose anyone it will be from some other stupid mistake.


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## kernels (Jul 23, 2016)

No worries Innos, I very much enjoy helping people every day, but unfortunately I'm not anywhere near as experienced as some people on this site !

I suggested evaporation instead of Sulfamic / Urea for denoxxing for two reasons -> 1 - By doing the evaporation, you are not introducing any more chemicals into the mix. 2 - I have not had ANY luck with denoxxing with either Sulfamic or Urea, I have tried both and both times I ended up with gold not dropping from solution because of Nitric still in solution. 

Maybe one of the forum member that actually successfully denoxxes solutions with Sulfamic can do a demo video for us ? ? ?

Yes, that is quite a lot of acid, but really, all of us used way too much acid on our first attempt, and most of us probably still do.


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## Innos (Jul 23, 2016)

kernels said:


> Maybe one of the forum member that actually successfully denoxxes solutions with Sulfamic can do a demo video for us ? ? ?



I have Urea.Stannous Chloride and sulfamic acid are coming in the mail within a week I hope.
Maybe I'll be that forum member  

Ill try to dennox with urea and sulfamic acid.

If it doesnt work ill use the evaporation method

myfalconry76,unfortunately,or maybe fortunately,Im paranoid as far as safety measures are concerned and I cannot leave anything that produces heat unsupervised for longer periods,especially if that heat source is boiling chemicals...


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## Innos (Jul 23, 2016)

Platdigger said:


> This is just a thought, but, if it is possible to break down plastic with nitric or AR,
> you now would have petroleum products also in solution.



Yeah the process was such that plastic had to be dissolved,Im guessing around 15 grams of plastic,maybe more maybe less.So its quite possible,you just gotta boil the hell out of it and then let it sit for a day and its gone.

How do petroleum products affect my solution?

Any comments on the pictures?
The color difference yellow-green is intriguing,any guesses?


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 23, 2016)

Innos said:


> Platdigger said:
> 
> 
> > This is just a thought, but, if it is possible to break down plastic with nitric or AR,
> ...



For the majority of processing applications you need to take boiling out of your vocabulary and have the patience to evaporate or heat solutions.


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## Innos (Jul 23, 2016)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> For the majority of processing applications you need to take boiling out of your vocabulary and have the patience to evaporate or heat solutions.



Thats logical,however,the plastic wasnt budging so I increased the temperature which did the job.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jul 23, 2016)

kernels said:


> Maybe one of the forum member that actually successfully denoxxes solutions with Sulfamic can do a demo video for us ? ? ?



There is a member who has done this already.

Geo made a video not too long ago.
Theres also a good thread by Göran where it talks about sulfamic and has links to almost every thread mentioning it


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## g_axelsson (Jul 23, 2016)

This is the sulfamic thread http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=23767

Göran


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## Innos (Aug 13, 2016)

Hello everyone,again  
Sulfamic finally arrived(took it long enough),I added it and it had zero reaction,no fizzing,nothing,it did dissolve by itself over time so I guess that's alright.
Interestingly enough,after I added it the colour of the solution changed to brownish-red.
I tested the ph,got some strange results,before sulfamic it was 6.5,afterwards around 4.5.
Took a 75 ml sample and added a lot of metabisulphate to test if anything will happen.The reaction was very strong,lots of foaming and fizzing and an instant colour change to brown,which did not happen before(denoxxing).Pictures attached.
I'm currently waiting to see what happens after 48 hours in the sample and then I'll drop metabisulphate in the whole thing(if you guys agree,maybe you have some other great tips like sulfamic  )
Also one more thing,theres platinum in that solution and some other stuff which is why I didn't like the idea of evaporation,forgot to mention that.


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## Grelko (Aug 13, 2016)

Innos said:


> Took a 75 ml sample and added a lot of [stt]metabisulphate[/stt] to test if anything will happen.
> 
> I'm currently waiting to see what happens after 48 hours in the sample and then I'll drop [stt]metabisulphate[/stt] in the whole thing



Metabisulf-ITE

Sometimes it takes a little time to get the proper word memorized. I kept spelling it wrong, so I put it in my signature "in song form" :lol:


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## Innos (Aug 13, 2016)

Grelko said:


> Innos said:
> 
> 
> > Took a 75 ml sample and added a lot of [stt]metabisulphate[/stt] to test if anything will happen.
> ...



Hahaha,entertaining response.Thanks I'll definitely memorize it now


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## anachronism (Aug 13, 2016)

Innos there's a whole world of mistyping out there for you to find in refining!

Wait till you confuse Dimethylglycine (known as DMG) with Dimethylglyoxime (the right DMG for Palladium/Nickel testing) and end up scratching your head....


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## Innos (Aug 13, 2016)

anachronism said:


> Innos there's a whole world of mistyping out there for you to find in refining!
> 
> Wait till you confuse Dimethylglycine (known as DMG) with Dimethylglyoxime (the right DMG for Palladium/Nickel testing) and end up scratching your head....



Haha thanks for the tip,I'll need it because I'll do the palladium extraction as well 
However,when I'm ordering chemicals i triple check,no money and time to waste.


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## Innos (Aug 13, 2016)

But back to the topic  ,considering theres a bunch of almost literal crap in my AR such as copper,nickel,lead and whatnot,Will the SMB drop pure gold or will i have to further refine.
Also any tips that are not obvious to the newbies?

Moderator's Note: Please keep your posts at a G level on our forum. A spelling/grammar checker, as well as the Preview button, are also recommended before you press the Submit button on a post. Please keep in mind that many of our members have to use translation software to read the forum, and spelling and grammatical errors make that effort even more difficult. We understand that everyone makes an occasional mistake, but we ask that you make your best effort.

FrugalRefiner


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## rewalston (Aug 13, 2016)

Innos said:


> But back to the topic  ,considering theres a bunch of almost literal crap in my AR such as copper,nickel,lead and whatnot,Will the SMB drop pure gold or will i have to further refine.
> Also any tips that are not obvious to the newbies?


I would drop it with SMB, then do your washes, then being that your gold is in powder form I would dissolve it with HCl and bleach to refine it again. Then redrop and do your washes.

Rusty


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 13, 2016)

:twisted:


Innos said:


> But back to the topic  ,considering theres a bunch of almost literal crap in my AR such as copper,nickel,lead and whatnot,Will the SMB drop pure gold or will i have to further refine.
> Also any tips that are not obvious to the newbies?



SMB will work pretty selectively, but you should convert the lead to lead sulfate with sulfuric acid so you can filter it out. Copperas is very selective as well, and is better to use in dirty solutions, since SMB can precipitate copper out as well.

A second refine is always a good idea. Switching precipitation methods helps remove pesky problem metals that follow the gold.


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## anachronism (Aug 13, 2016)

As Tofer point out copperas or ferrous II sulphate as it's known in europe is better for really dirty solutions. Then use SMB for a proper refine. One thing though- copperas will still bring some copper down, and a good wash between refines never hurt anyone.


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## kurtak (Aug 14, 2016)

Hmmmm - I am sorry I missed this thread until now (just been to busy to read everything on the forum let alone post replies) but I can't help but wonder why in the world no one solved this problem in the beginning by telling Innos to simple cement his solution with copper (in order to "recover" his gold from a very dirty solution that had free nitric in it) & then get him headed down the right path to "refine" the cemented recovered gold 

Its been 3 weeks & 4 days now since he first posted his problem & he has "just now" recovered his gold (based on what I see in the first two pics) which means he still needs to "refine" it

Had he been told to cement it with copper at the beginning - & then been instructed to refine it - with ether HCl/Cl or AR using drop by drop additions of nitric (so as not to end up with free nitric that needs de-noxxing) he could by now be showing us a nice gold button

And another thing - why has no one suggested that Innos read Hokes so as to get a more clear understanding of the refining process - such as - learning to make & use stannous to test his solution for gold (&/or PGMs) etc. etc. etc. --- (I did not read every post in this thread so maybe someone did instruct him to read Hokes & I just missed it)

Anyway - don't mean to sound harsh - but :?: - just wondering why with all the knowledgeable members we have on this forum Innos is not showing us a refined gold button - after 3 weeks & 4 days --- when the problem could have been solved on day one (cement with copper) to "recover" the gold - & by the end of the first week he could have been showing us a nice melted "refined" button

Again - I apologize for not catching this thread until now 

Kurt


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## g_axelsson (Aug 14, 2016)

At pH 6.5 you don't have a lot free nitric or any acid at all. Try add some hydrochloric acid to the mix. This will convert any nitrates into nitric acid so the sulfamic acid can work... if there is any nitrates left.

Same goes for SMB, it only works in acidic environment where it breaks down to create the SO2 that precipitates the gold.

And start with small tests at first so you don't make a big mess.

Göran


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## Innos (Aug 15, 2016)

kurtak said:


> Hmmmm - I am sorry I missed this thread until now (just been to busy to read everything on the forum let alone post replies) but I can't help but wonder why in the world no one solved this problem in the beginning by telling Innos to simple cement his solution with copper (in order to "recover" his gold from a very dirty solution that had free nitric in it) & then get him headed down the right path to "refine" the cemented recovered gold
> 
> Its been 3 weeks & 4 days now since he first posted his problem & he has "just now" recovered his gold
> 
> ...



Alright well I guess a defensive argument is in order since I may seem spoiled and bratty by seemingly refusing to read Hokes book and just ask for specific instructions.
I've downloaded Hokes book as soon as it was suggested,great book,but it is old,and I believed there might be some more relevant information provided by experienced people,those who willed to do so.I have not read the whole thing,only small sections,those I deemed important.I'm working on another project that has a deadline in September and that's where i spend most of my time,Any free time is spent on gold recycling.
Also,I waited about 2 weeks for sulfamic,I had urea,but members suggested sulfamic and after reading on it I decided that's the best course of action(I have lead in my solution).

I'm greatly appreciative on all the help I've been given,I must say I am shocked,as this must be one of the best and most helpful communities on the internet(and that is very important since it includes work with dangerous chemicals)

I intend on reading the WHOLE forum and Hokes,as soon as I finish my other project,and intend to help people,just as others are helping me.

Stannous has not arrived,Ive ordered a reship and awaiting it anxiously.

Also I've missed the whole copper thing,it sounds useful and exactly what I need but it seems I missed it :?
Must be in Hokes,I will find it.

Also a question,does anybody have experimental knowledge as which ph is best for adding SMB(a member said acidic,but that is a broad area  )


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## Innos (Aug 15, 2016)

rewalston said:


> Innos said:
> 
> 
> > But back to the topic  ,considering theres a bunch of almost literal crap in my AR such as copper,nickel,lead and whatnot,Will the SMB drop pure gold or will i have to further refine.
> ...



I was considering this,only instead of HCl and bleach,doing the AR all over again,and doing it right this time.
But HCl and bleach sounds more tempting,simpler.



anachronism said:


> As Tofer point out copperas or ferrous II sulphate as it's known in europe is better for really dirty solutions. Then use SMB for a proper refine. One thing though- copperas will still bring some copper down, and a good wash between refines never hurt anyone.



I'm ordering it right now,if I dont use it now I surely will use it next time


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## rewalston (Aug 15, 2016)

Innos as your gold is in powder form the HCl and bleach will dissolve it easier and there is no NOx that has to be removed, just heat the solution to drive off excess bleach, or let it sit a day to let it gas off.

Rusty


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## Innos (Aug 15, 2016)

rewalston said:


> Innos as your gold is in powder form the HCl and bleach will dissolve it easier and there is no NOx that has to be removed, just heat the solution to drive off excess bleach, or let it sit a day to let it gas off.
> 
> Rusty



Excellent tip,I will definitely do that then.
(but I appreciate the advice for the ferreous 2 sulphate  )

Just an interesting bit of information,When i added the SMB before denoxxing(I know stupid rookie mistake)
The next day I had two layersn top gold,bottom dark green,opposite of what happened to Goran I think(found an old thread).Could this be just due to high level of impurities OR not enough SMB   (or both).


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