# Rinsing Filters



## dmarth10 (Nov 3, 2008)

Hello all,
Im have the black sludgy pgm power on a couple coffee filters. I am going to be trying to rinse them off into a pyrex bowl to add some AR. Does anyone know a really effective way to rinse off the sludge from the coffee filters into the bowl without leaving any on the filter? I wanna get as much off as possible without any fibers from the filters. I dont really thing burning the filters is a good idea because there would be lots of ash mixed in with the pgms then. 


Ideas???

David


----------



## viacin (Nov 3, 2008)

Hello dmarth10, Welcome to the forum!

I am by no means an expert on the subject, so maybe someone else will chime in as well. Here is what I have seen posted lately on the subject. 

You could try some of the ideas listed in this post. However, this was written on the pretense that there was no PGM present. I am not sure if it would affect the process, but there are several other good ideas here as well: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3488&highlight=filters

Also, I believe it is possible to incenerate your filters to a point that the ash is gone. Harold is a strong believer in this method from what I understand.


----------



## dmarth10 (Nov 3, 2008)

I've searched this forum for an hour. I cant find out how to incinerate a filter. I read put it in a s.s. pan and heat from the bottom. I think that would make ash though. When they say burn off the carbon, are they talking about the ash? Just heat the pan from the bottom and stir the ash and pgms until all ash is gone?


----------



## viacin (Nov 3, 2008)

Have you seen this? http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=2834


----------



## dmarth10 (Nov 3, 2008)

It says the pgm salts are water soluble but I have raw, just precipitated with zn, pgms. I dont know how to get them out. Steve or Noxx or any experianced refiners have any tips?


----------



## lazersteve (Nov 3, 2008)

David,

1. Set up outdoors
2. Set up a beaker that will hold the filters.
3. Cover the filters with HCl.
4. Add in a couple cap fulls of bleach and stir
5. When the PGMs are all dissolved rinse and wring the filters out throughly.
6. Repeat until clorox additions until no more dissolves.
Your PGMs will now be in the liquid.

Steve


----------



## dmarth10 (Nov 4, 2008)

Steve,
Will this dissolve Rh as well? Also, I sent an email for the invoice for your new pgm video, can't wait to buy it!


----------



## lazersteve (Nov 4, 2008)

David, 

It all depends on the state of the Rhodium.

If the filter still shows a residue after extracting with HCl-Cl you can burn it to get the Rhodium if it doesn't dissolve.

Steve


----------



## dmarth10 (Nov 4, 2008)

Steve,
I have been trying to find out how to burn a filter. I read a lot last night from the forum and tried searching the Internet and came up with nothing. I tried to burn a filter with black sludgy rh pt and pd in a ss measuring cup. I heated up the cup with a mapp torch. It just turned the filter to an ash. So now I have my pgms in a mess of ash. I can't figure out how to burn ALL of the filter away. Can someone help. I really don't want to use h2so4. That's out of my league.


----------



## lazersteve (Nov 4, 2008)

David,

I save all my filters up over several months before burning. This makes the process worthwhile. There's no real reason to waste your time processing tiny amounts of filter ash for the small returns. Accumulate the filter ash and process in bulk later when you have enough to warrant the chemicals and time.

Steve


----------



## butcher (Nov 5, 2008)

also with filters, tissue paper fine powder ect, a trick I use is a spray bottle with alcohol spray with fine mist to wet before using torch on powder or paper ash , this helps me keeps torch from blowing your values away, especially if I am melting and not just incenerating them.


----------



## Harold_V (Nov 5, 2008)

dmarth10 said:


> Steve,
> I have been trying to find out how to burn a filter. I read a lot last night from the forum and tried searching the Internet and came up with nothing. I tried to burn a filter with black sludgy rh pt and pd in a ss measuring cup. I heated up the cup with a mapp torch. It just turned the filter to an ash. So now I have my pgms in a mess of ash. I can't figure out how to burn ALL of the filter away.



I used old stainless frying pans for incineration. Lou suggests that you may contaminate the material with chromium and nickel, but I also incinerated only that which was yet to be processed. 

When you incinerate, all you have to do is raise the temperature of the material above the combustion point of carbon, then provide adequate oxygen. It will be totally eliminated, leaving behind only trace elements from which the substance is made, and are not combustible. 

Trying to incinerate in deep containers is not in your best interest. One of the best small containers I found was a stainless steel frying pan that is used by the Boy Scouts. They're small enough to concentrate the material, and large enough to serve well. I heated the pan via a gas hot plate, with a burner adjusted for maximum flame. When the readily combustible materials have been burned, I then raised the temperature of the pan by playing a rosebud on the bottom side, keeping it constantly in motion to avoid melting the pan. Once the entire bottom was dull red, I then played oxygen on the contents. Any traces of carbon were immediately eliminated. When you have accomplished your mission, the ash will not glow red. 

Dry your filters and remove all you can mechanically, then store them for re-processing, as Steve suggested. It makes no sense to process them one at a time. 

Harold


----------



## SilverFox (Nov 5, 2008)

lazersteve said:


> David,
> 
> 1. Set up outdoors
> 2. Set up a beaker that will hold the filters.
> ...




Are you saying that Bleach and HCL will Dissolve Platinum metal group metals? I just tried this experiment with a small bit of catdust, My dust turned a really nice color white, but my beaker was still filled with little metal flakes.

Or are you saying that this only works with PGM converted to Salts?


----------



## lazersteve (Nov 5, 2008)

HCl-Cl will dissolve PGMs from cats and also the fine black PGM powder precipitated with zinc.

It takes longer (or higher temperatures) to get the PGMs from cats, but the black powder precipitated with zinc is much easier to dissolve.

The PGM salts will dissolve in plain water.

Steve


----------



## SilverFox (Nov 5, 2008)

Thanks for the clarification, guess ill give it another go.


----------



## Platdigger (Nov 5, 2008)

Silverfox, I don't think those metal flakes you are seeing are pgms.
Randy


----------



## butcher (Nov 5, 2008)

The PGM salts will dissolve in plain water.

steve are you saying(PGM-Cl) soluble in water, 
or just the crystals disolve and leave pgm salts (powder) ?
and are you talking about the precipitant or the acidic PGM chloride solution just diluted.
and why are you using zink to ppt them? is this with other metals Base gold removed(final stages), and not ammonium chloride and sodium chlorate? as used in Aqua regia solutions.


----------



## lazersteve (Nov 5, 2008)

Pd/Pt ammonium chloride salts are soluble in water.

My DVD covers all this in full motion video. :wink:

Steve


----------



## butcher (Nov 5, 2008)

ok didnt notice you were talking about ammonium chloride salts the ammonia explains it.
I will order video as soon as I get caught back up on credit card.
video sounds very interesting and if like your other works I know it will be exellent and worth every penny.


----------

