# Extracting gold using borax? Can someone explain?



## NobleMetalWorks

I stumbled (literally, I was using stumbleupon) across a video on youtube that claims to show how you can extract gold using borax. I understand the purpose of using borax when you melt gold, for seasoning a crucible and attracting some contaminants, and for heating reasons etc. What I don't understand is how they can make this claim, when it seems like they are extracting the gold out of dirt material, recovering it, and the last part melting the gold into a button using borax. I was expecting to see some process totally different from others I have read about, but it just seems like a fairly common process. I don't see any borax being used to extract the gold, only to melt and maybe remove some impurities.

If I am missing something, can someone please explain it to me?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Sawj0HyF0&feature=related[/youtube]


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## samuel-a

These are 9:48 minutes of BS and i really feel like i want to punch the "Borax Expert" straight in the face.

They took an almost meaningless detail, like using borax to substitute the use of mercury, where infact they should have focus on better sluicing and panning of the concentrates.


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## NobleMetalWorks

Thank you, I was worried that I was missing a significant part of my brain having missed the part where they would have used borax instead of mercury, good point by the way.

I bet the guy panning immediately used mercury as soon as the borax rep left. Matter of fact, I think I saw a video recently with guys half naked using mercury bare handed, and that guy looks like someone in the other video. Hmmm...


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## peter og peter

Hello All
Regarding the video so I have not a knowledge of its contents.
But when I heard the expert I could recognize his dialect, same as my DANISH. So googled him and he works for GEUS. Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland (GEUS).
He does a great job to educate workers in the mining industry in the 3 world to avoid mercury poisoning. so it's probably not so bad.
Best regards, Peter.


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## samuel-a

The goals are noble indeed. Mercury does have horrible long term effect (which could be easily avoided btw).

This does not change the fact that 99% of what said in this video is plain rubbish.


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## AztekShine

I see no where that mercury is used that they used borax.


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## NobleMetalWorks

Yeah, that was my point. Usually they would add mercury to the trammel, pour off the waste and retain the mercury amalgam. Then the mercury amalgam is strained through cloth until most of the mercury has been squeezed out, then you are left with a ball of mercury/precious metal amalgam. Then the excess mercury is burned off, I think the ratio of precious metal to mercury is something like 1/5. Then the mercury is burned off when the gold is melted. The borax was only used after the gold had been extracted. At best the borax was used to refine impurities, not extracting the gold.

Also, I think a very simple wet scrubber will allow the reclamation of incinerated mercury, right?

If I'm wrong about any of this, someone please correct me. It just bothers me that the video claims that borax is used to extract gold, when in fact that just simply isn't the case. Seems like it's just propagating a misconception.


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## AztekShine

Probably disinformation to fool the public.


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## butcher

After watching video, I do not see any misinformation, beside him saying the words pure gold, (although it should result in a high quality of gold, most of the lighter metals were removed in the sluice and panned off, the soap in panning and grinding and re-panning also helped to remove some other metals and to keep the fine gold powders (normally picked up as amalgam with mercury).

I agree with the author of teaching these miners of how to process without use of the mercury, and the way he is teaching them would produce gold of the same quality of gold they were producing without poisoning them and their children.

I am sure the gold is sent out to be refined, the video is not talking about refining gold but is a good video of recovery of gold, without the use of creating toxic waste.


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## NobleMetalWorks

I agree, milling and panning the gold in the way they do is much better than using mercury in the mill to collect the gold into an amalgam. But Borax wasn't used to extract the gold, not at any point, extraction was done by trammel and panning so far as I can tell, but then again I have only read about gold extraction and watched video's, so far to date I have only recovered and refined. Borax was used to melt the gold and draw out impurities I thought, not draw gold out of any material.

The only difference I can tell, between extracting with Mercury and this video just seems to be the absence of Mercury, and substituting it with a trammel, nothing more. They didn't substitute anything for Mercury itself, and Borax would be used in either process, regardless. Sounds like a commercial for Borax "Start using Borax, get cleaner and more gold, and make more money".

I think they should have spent more time on the trammel and the material they used "felt" to capture the heavy minerals, after all that was the entire point of the video, wasn't it?


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## samuel-a

SBrown said:


> Sounds like a commercial for Borax "Start using Borax, get cleaner and more gold, and make more money".



You read my mind SBrown...
I can't see the point in all of this, that's all.


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## Anonymous

I'm still a beginner to the recovery/refining industry, yet, after watching that video I still don't see the use of Borax the way the video depicts. I can see it being used for the crucible and maybe putting it in the bath water to help keep the gold from floating away. Other than that, it's probably a Borax commercial.

I still have dirt that I classified into 5 classifications and I'll maybe do one batch of dirt to see if it'll help make the gold stay on the bottom in the water. I'll report what I get once I try it. Speaking of Borax, I bought a box last year before moving here and I still haven't found it yet. It may be out in the shed.. I hope.

testerman


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## butcher

Soap keeps the fine gold from floating on the surface tension of the water, in the video they used hand soap, I use a few drops of dish soap.


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## CASACEO

I am new to the forum. I have had some successes on my own with the help of hoke google and some other sources. I found this video previously and everyone so far has given great answers to the question. I would like to add something though... The difference between melting and smelting. melting is what you do to a material that is metal, without flux. What you would do with pure PMs. :idea: Smelting is what is done to remove impurities from gold and reduce/oxidize other materials out. Since gold does not oxidize borax affects lighter elements that oxidize and rise to the surface. 

The only other thing i'd like to add at this time is about mercury. It's impact on people is notable, but it's damaging affects on the ecosystem are a greater concern. The 'borax rep' doesn't have a problem with the people poisoning themselves, it's the people and animals who they are poisoning, the unintended victims, with their extraction processes using mercury for amalgamation.

(for everyone that misunderstands smelting and thinks adding a (edited by Harold) ton of borax all at once to impure gold is going to result in pure gold you'll end up with a dish full of boric glass... I came across this forum and posting because I made this mistake. I think it's not actually a problem except I keep running out of oxygen before reaching an even molten mixture. I need a bigger tank. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any point...)


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## Geo

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=14035

careful.


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## Harold_V

CASACEO said:


> Smelting is what is done to remove impurities from gold and reduce/oxidize other materials out. Since gold does not oxidize borax affects lighter elements that oxidize and rise to the surface. ////////Please correct me if I'm wrong on any point...)



Ok, lets talk about borax. It does not do as you suggest---give cause for lighter elements to rise to the surface, not if they're metallic. What it does is absorb oxides, allowing the base metals that may be present to readily alloy with gold. It is a necessary addition when melting pure gold, but only in moderation. There is generally enough present in a properly seasoned melting dish to serve the purpose. Once melted, pure gold does not benefit by borax, although the melting dish does, as it functions much like a lubricant, allowing the gold to flow freely, without sticking to the dish. That is not true if the borax is dirty. 

Not to pick fly specks from pepper, but we try to be very precise in the things we say on this forum. That's to avoid someone getting the wrong impression, or for those who don't use English as a first language to not encounter statements that make no sense, or are dangerous when misinterpreted. To that end, I have appointed myself the forum language cop (in spite of having need to be corrected myself on many occasions). Please note that you used a word that doesn't exist. The word is ect. There is no such word. If you meant etc., the contraction for two words, et cetera, please take note of its proper spelling. 

Please remember---spell check is your friend. Don't be afraid to use it. 

Should you take note of errors in my posts, please feel free to correct me. So long as you do it mannerly, it will be accepted in the spirit in which it is offered. I might not be so agreeable if you are rude. Readers likely can regale you with tales of me and my exploits with folks who lack manners. (Not insinuating you do not, I hope you understand). 

Welcome to the forum.

Harold


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## butcher

CASACEO, 
why get a bigger oxygen tank, if you need an oxidizer why not just use nitrate in your flux.


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## CASACEO

butcher said:


> CASACEO,
> why get a bigger oxygen tank, if you need an oxidizer why not just use nitrate in your flux.



I would need a bigger oxygen tank to attain an even melt. I will try some nitrate in my flux as you suggested, however nitrate will not melt the mixture without fuel. I have been using a MAPP Oxygen torch for my melting.



Harold_V said:


> (Not insinuating you do not, I hope you understand).


I do understand, now. I am not insulted and will choose my vernacular more carefully in the future. Also, thanks for explaining more about borax.


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## butcher

CASACEO,
I thought you were discussing smelting, and using oxygen from a tank to oxidize base metals, I misunderstood.

Nitrate is not needed to melt gold if it is refined; here you have removed the base metals.

For ore nitrates can be used as an oxidizer in the flux to oxidize metals in the smelt, helping to separate them from the gold which will not oxidize, letting the base metal oxides mix with the slag glass from the borax (and sand or glass used), this of course would be best done in a furnace.


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## 911Met

A new fine research article on Borax Method to Recovery Gold by Rasmus Køster-Rasmussen, MD PhD came out. The core of it posted on http://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/mercury-free-gravity-borax-method-gbm


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## richard2013

I would say the extraction is panning but turning the impure gold powder into a button was using a borax, in the video it shows using a cheap clay dish same material used in garden clay pot, its very cheap here in our PH area. Around $.50Cent to $ 1 dollar price with very strong supply than a 3inches ceramic dish here will cause us $16 to 20$. :shock: If they will not use borax they will have problems with gold sticking to that clay dish. This could just be word misrepresentation, we can even see in the video the borax was used as to cover the dish after clay dish seasoning.

We can see they are just practical and leave the refining stage to the gold buyers, after all gold buyers will just payed 80% to 90% spot price regardless of its a 99.9% Au button. :mrgreen:


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## Geo

Smelting is an ancient form of gold recovery and refining. It will not get the gold pure. The pictures prove the gold is impure. There is nothing new about it. Cupellation is another ancient form of refining that will actually produce a more refined product. This also is not new. Just because it has fell by the wayside, when someone comes across it, it seems like it is a new way of doing things. There is seldom any new refining technique discovered that has any practical use and normally it's just a new twist to an old process. Borax will absorb some oxides and lock them in the slag but unless the metal being melted is already basically pure to begin with, it's not much of a difference. As mentioned, it is used as a lubricant so the tiny prills of metal can come together to form larger pieces.


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