# Borax for fireproof fume hood



## MarcoP (Jan 3, 2015)

I've searched the forums for something related to this but I've found nothing.

It seems the saturating ~1:11 borax:water and using it for the first hand of paint (can't remember the English name) and let it dry for 2 weeks would make a fireproof coating.

My fume hood is simply waiting for fireproof paint and the exhaust, if borax can be used then I only have the exhaust to be made.

What's your thoughts on this, would it work?


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## necromancer (Jan 3, 2015)

i think the word would be: "white wash"

why do you need to fire proof ? you could use fibreglass panelling, it's cheap. no idea of acid or acid fume resistance though.

http://www.idealproducts.ca/FiberglassReinforcedPanels.aspx


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 3, 2015)

necromancer said:


> i think the word would be: "white wash"
> 
> why do you need to fire proof ? you could use fibreglass panelling, it's cheap. no idea of acid or acid fume resistance though.
> 
> http://www.idealproducts.ca/FiberglassReinforcedPanels.aspx



Fiberglass is acid resistant but not fire resistant.


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## necromancer (Jan 3, 2015)

thank you


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## MarcoP (Jan 3, 2015)

necromancer said:


> i think the word would be: "white wash"
> 
> why do you need to fire proof ? you could use fibreglass panelling, it's cheap. no idea of acid or acid fume resistance though.
> 
> http://www.idealproducts.ca/FiberglassReinforcedPanels.aspx


I'd like to be better safe then sorry specially when it's cheap to do so. I'm also installing a main safety switch on my fume hood to again be safe rather then sorry.

Fiberglass is a great idea, thanks, I could use those panels after the white wash ... I just would like to avoid spending €80/Kg for a certified fireproof coating and nobody in my area is able to tell me if it is resistant to acids or not.

"primer" is the word that I couldn't remember earlier.

Just noticed Barren's reply, so If I got it right and adding new infos I could use borax as primer and cover with fiberglass panels!?

Edit: sp


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## FrugalRefiner (Jan 3, 2015)

MarcoP said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> > i think the word would be: "white wash"
> ...


No. Fiberglass is *not* fire resistant. If you're planning to do any incineration or melting under your hood, do not use fiberglass. Harold made that mistake with his first hood and set his shop on fire. 

Dave


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## MarcoP (Jan 3, 2015)

FrugalRefiner said:


> MarcoP said:
> 
> 
> > necromancer said:
> ...


Thanks Dave, yes I'd like to melt and incinerate too in it as I would like to avoid to be there when the wind changes direction. Sure I'll be using a mask but those are not really safe as I originally believed so I'd like to do everything inside a fume hood.


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## necromancer (Jan 3, 2015)

this is what i thought you meant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewash


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## MarcoP (Jan 3, 2015)

necromancer said:


> this is what i thought you meant.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewash


Intresting but no, they use carbon dioxide while I'd like to use borax as primer to fireproof it.
Then, possibly, a simple hand of water paint and the usual cardboard for spills etc..

Hopefully it can be done, it would be cheap enough for everyone to make.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jan 3, 2015)

Marco, you didn't mention in this thread what your hood is made from. I used a borax solution as a fire *retardant* many years ago in my travelling jewelry days. Our table coverings had to be retardant, and mine were plain cotton cloth. I soaked them in borax solution and dried them. They were able to pass the test. They were not fire proof. If you held a flame to the material it would burn, but when the external flame was removed, the flame in the cloth would die out. I don't have any experience with it on anything other than cloth.

As with anything new, I'd suggest a small scale test to see if it serves your needs.

We have a couple of materials available here that you may or may not have there. They are used as backing materials for stone and tile work. There are a couple of varieties (Durock and Hardie board come to mind), but they are both cement based materials. The material comes in sheets, usually about 3 feet by 5 feet, and in thicknesses from 3/8 inch to about 5/8 or 3/4 inch or so. It's fairly easy to work with and will not burn. I have not tested any of it for acid resistance.

Dave


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 3, 2015)

They do make fire resistant fiberglass but it's probably quite expensive.
http://www.lbie.com/ptf.htm


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## Palladium (Jan 3, 2015)

Gypsum drywall board painted with a latex based paint has served me more than well. I painted one of my two fume hoods with epoxy and the other with latex (exterior, not interior) paint 4 years ago and you can't tell the difference between them. It has held up to all the moisture, chemicals, and heat with no kind of problems what so ever and believe me it has seen some action!


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## MarcoP (Jan 3, 2015)

Dave you are right, that's a detail of the section of the timber I've used



I will also look for details about fireproof fiberglass and latex paint, thanks GSP and Palladium.

Palladium, how come did you paint just the exterior? Shouldn't be the way around?


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## FrugalRefiner (Jan 3, 2015)

Marco, we know that as plywood.

If I understood Palladium correctly, he was saying he used an exterior type paint instead of an interior type. So he painted the interior of his hood with exterior type paint.

Dave


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## Palladium (Jan 3, 2015)

Yep what Dave said.
I built and finished it just like you would normal drywall and then just painted it with exterior paint like you would anything else. The duct work after the fume hood is made of 2x4 bracing and 7/16 osb plywood with the insides painted with the same paint.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jan 3, 2015)

So we don't confuse anyone, Palladium, do you do any melting or incineration in your hood or do you use it strictly for chemical work? Marco is wanting to use his hood for all purposes.

Dave


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## solar_plasma (Jan 3, 2015)

Fireproof does not necessarily mean it will never burn. It only means, that it will withstand fire for a definated time, this could be minutes. If you really want to build in a known fireproofness, then you would need to use testet materials. If it is just for yourself and not based on any laws and rules, you could use something like acid resistant painted eternit panels and rockwool. But this would only make sense, if you use expensive fireproof thermoinsulating safety glass for the front.

Maybe better just to pevent uncontrolled fire.


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## Palladium (Jan 3, 2015)

5/8 type X gypsum drywall is fire resistant. I use my fume hood for both. I have had several large open fires in my fume hood without a problem. You just need clearance from the wall.


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## solar_plasma (Jan 3, 2015)

Btw. if I remember right, wood burns 1mm per minute. A fireproof coating will in the best case prevent it some time from inflammation. If there is any good source of heat, it will pyrolyse, coated or not. The pyrolysis gasses will cause a flash over, when their concentration is within the ex-range and enough heat and oxygen are present. Very theoretical though. There is a good ventilation and you would probably be near and use a fire extinguisher very soon.

If the ventilation pipes are inflammable, you would have another problem in the case of fire :!:


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## solar_plasma (Jan 3, 2015)

Palladium said:


> 5/8 type X gypsum drywall is fire resistant. I use my fume hood for both. I have had several large open fires in my fume hood without a problem. You just need clearance from the wall.



correct.


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## MarcoP (Jan 3, 2015)

solar_plasma said:


> Maybe better just to pevent uncontrolled fire.


Indeed, preventing is the best way to go but I've heard of accidents happening to experienced people thus I'd like to play safe when I can.

Too late for gypsum drywall now, it sounds like a great idea, fumehood it's already made. I will have to look how much it costs fireproof fiberglass and if too expensive I'll try with borax as primer and latex exteriors paint on a small board, test and then do the fumehood. I think I'll be mostly set like this and then I could concentrate on the exhaust.


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## MarcoP (Jan 3, 2015)

solar_plasma said:


> Btw. if I remember right, wood burns 1mm per minute. A fireproof coating will in the best case prevent it some time from inflammation. If there is any good source of heat, it will pyrolyse, coated or not. The pyrolysis gasses will cause a flash over, when their concentration is within the ex-range and enough heat and oxygen are present. Very theoretical though. There is a good ventilation and you would probably be near and use a fire extinguisher very soon.
> 
> If the ventilation pipes are inflammable, you would have another problem in the case of fire :!:


I'll have to stick with PVC tubings...


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## necromancer (Jan 3, 2015)

MarcoP said:


> solar_plasma said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe better just to pevent uncontrolled fire.
> ...



fire code drywall 5/8" is only good for 45 minutes of protection, quarterdboard (1 1/4" X 16" X 10') would be good but may be hard to find in smaller amounts. 

you can use wonderboard with a coat of durabond?

then use fire resistant paint.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 3, 2015)

You can double the layers of dry wall and it will increase the protection time.


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## MarcoP (Jan 3, 2015)

necromancer said:


> MarcoP said:
> 
> 
> > solar_plasma said:
> ...


Wonderboard lite not available in Europe http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/tools/international.aspx but I got the idea of what it is and from tomorrow I will go and look for all the options given by you all.

Basically, from what I gather, borax as primer is not good enough to slow down wood combustion... sometimes following Iron's signature it's a must as I can see.


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## jason_recliner (Jan 3, 2015)

Consider having more than one extinguisher on hand if many different operations are conducted under your hood.
Dry chemical AB(E) extinguishers, red with white band, are good for most things but they make a mess. (Though not compared to a fire taking hold.) Also they are usually filled with sodium bicarbonate, which needs to be seriously considered around acids.
A CO2 extinguisher, red with black band, might be a good addition. They cost more, but you can also give a short squirt and put them away without having to get them refilled, which you have to once you crack the seal on a dry chem AB(E). But you must be careful using them on loose paper fires and the like, in case you scatter burning material everywhere.


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## GotTheBug (Jan 3, 2015)

Why not just line it with cement board with a 1/2 inch space behind?


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## MarcoP (Jan 4, 2015)

jason_recliner said:


> Consider having more than one extinguisher on hand if many different operations are conducted under your hood.
> Dry chemical AB(E) extinguishers, red with white band, are good for most things but they make a mess. (Though not compared to a fire taking hold.) Also they are usually filled with sodium bicarbonate, which needs to be seriously considered around acids.
> A CO2 extinguisher, red with black band, might be a good addition. They cost more, but you can also give a short squirt and put them away without having to het them refilled, which you have to once you crack the seal on a dry chem AB(E). But you must be careful using them on loose paper fires and the like, in case you scatter burning material everywhere.


Jason since the very first day I always had and still have a bag of sand. Used for sand bath but always ready for sucking up any big spills, none has happened yet, and in case of fire.
In most MSDSs I've checked, under the firefighters section, I always found sand as possible extinguisher so having some around made me feel little safer.

Sodium bicarbonate is also near by from a long time, at harm reach and close to water. It has been said too many times how important those two are in case acids comes in contact with skin or eyes (that's why glasses are to be worn) but I never though I could use it as extinguishing media.



GotTheBug said:


> Why not just line it with cement board with a 1/2 inch space behind?


Basically Wonderboard is a cement like panel, and yes, that's in the wanted list too.

Thanks


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## Irons (Jan 4, 2015)

I recently picked-up about a 1/3 ton of 300mm square Slate tiles. When I build my new Hood, I will use them for the liner. Already checked them for heat resistance and ability to resist spalling. I think for $45 bucks it was a good deal. Many areas of the World, non-porous Ceramic Tiles are readily available and fairly inexpensive.


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## Palladium (Jan 4, 2015)

Irons said:


> I recently picked-up about a 1/3 ton of 300mm square Slate tiles. When I build my new Hood, I will use them for the liner. Already checked them for heat resistance and ability to resist spalling. I think for $45 bucks it was a good deal. Many areas of the World, non-porous Ceramic Tiles are readily available and fairly inexpensive.



Here in the South where i live we have many towns that were built around the textile industry. It those towns the factories usually built housing for their employees who worked in the mill. Their are thousands of houses still in existence that used them tiles. Around here when a house is tore down those tiles go for good money.


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## MarcoP (Mar 11, 2015)

Since I decided to put chemistry aside to learn more and recovering enough material to minimize losses I was able to make some room and finally put my future fume hood in place.

It will use two regulated 12v ~165cfm fume extractors, will be painted with few diluted epoxy resin hands, 12v natural led lighting, a cheap UPS and plexiglass or something cheaper to close it. The front will always have 10cm, 4", opening and could be raised by 10cm steps. The vents will not suck air directly, but they will rather push air into the exhaust tubes to create vacuum. At 100cfm per inch square and calculating the loss of suction I should be able to be ok with the always open 4" square opening.




*Click to view full size.

Note, there is a small lip in the front to avoid spills and a good vacuum pump it might get in one day ... [stt]I will replace the picture with a better one as soon as I can[/stt].

Marco


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## necromancer (Mar 11, 2015)

you can also "Parge" that with portland cement

Parge = Paint on a surface


just mix the portland cement thin enough so you can use a course brush to put it on, use 2 or 3 coats.

to make sure it stays on you can attach expanded metal (lath) to the wood before parging


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