# Electronic cigs / vape's



## joubjonn

For the smokers on the forum

I recently switched 100% to a mechanical mod vape. Haven't looked back since. I encourage anyone to give it a try. I no longer wake up in the AM hacking lung. Very impressed. I tried the cheap route once with one of those throw away electric cigs and it was ok for while but ended up going back. This time I got fed up walked into a vape store (they are everywhere now by the way, popping up like crazy) I spent $100 on a Kamry K300 package deal. Threw away my pack and haven't looked back. It's not top of the line but it works great. Got a rebuild able drip atomizer couple days ago. Think I'm gonna have one of the shops build it for me as you can blow your self up with one of those if not done right. Just wondering if anyone else has tried ?


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## cmiller92

I was on one of the E-cigs, and stayed with it for seven months. It worked great and I still got the nicotine that I am addicted too, which I hate. After the seven months it really started to annoy me because I had to buy new batteries, some atomizers didn’t work, and the technical issues just irritated me. I think that the E-cig will make nicotine addiction worse, at least for me it seemed to, because I could smoke it anywhere. By anywhere I mean in the car with windows rolled up, in my house, in my classes at school, so I believe it leads to a higher nicotine intake. 

I went back to cigarettes, which I hate. While deployed I have made two attempts to quit, which is very hard when you are overseas. Once I stopped for 30 days, and the other for 38 days. I know after that time it should be easy not to pick them up again but with the work I do here, it gives me a reason to get out of the office.
When I get back I am quitting for good, notice I didn’t say “plan”. I have found the gum works the best for me. The funny part is I will have lots of stuff to keep me entertained when I get back, because I have obtained a good amount of material to process.

So in a way, this forum will be a big help in me stopping smoking…Imagine that!


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## justinhcase

One of the chap's I use has a good deal on nicotine test kit.
http://oxfordchemserve.com/e-cigarette-refill-nicotine-quantitative-test-kit/
So you can make sure you are getting a good dose.


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## rickbb

FYI, not all of them are equal. 

Guy at work started using them thinking it would help him quit smoking, and wound up in the hospital. Seems something in it was causing a severe allergic reaction in his throat and lungs. 

He spent a week in ICU before they figured it out, dang near did him in!

Apparently these things are NOT, (yet anyway), regulated in any way and the makers can put whatever they please in them.


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## Anonymous

Actually Rick a lot are made by the real tobacco firms now.

I used them for 6 months and as the OP said, they do mean that you don't inhale all the 300 plus toxins that are in a normal cigarette. Perversely the withdrawal is still there because most of the withdrawal symptoms are from the toxins as opposed to the nicotine itself.

Jon


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## Geo

http://time.com/36090/study-e-cigarettes-do-not-help-people-quit-smoking/

http://www.livescience.com/32089-do-e-cigarettes-help-smokers-quit.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/24/health-ecigarettes-idUSL1N0ML0ZU20140324

And on and on. There are drugs that will make you stop smoking by blocking the pleasure receptors in your brain associated with smoking. Without the pleasure producing endorphin's, all the smoker gets is the negative effects.

As an aside, this same subject came up in another thread and was quickly brought to an end. Without some evidence that this is helpful in some way, it's just promoting a modern way to continue a deadly habit.
Do you, by the way, sell these little wonders?


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## joubjonn

no i don't sell anything. nor would i ever. as my 9-5 is plenty lucrative. 


all i can say for me it's working great. i don't have any issues with mine and i have been doing it for about a month. i don't endorse any brand or sell anything related to it. neither do i sell anything related to refining.


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## joubjonn

i have to say, comparing the two (throwing nicotine out of the picture) i would think it is helpfull. your not inhaling smoke, tar, etc into your lungs anymore. i haven't picked up a smoke since i started. i no longer wake up in the morning hacking lunch. so yes i do think they are helpfull. if you don't smoke then it's a little more difficult to understand what i'm talking about.

the negative press going on about this is obivous. governement's are not taxing it yet so it's evil and the tobacco companies are loosing money 

for example, in Malaysia it is illegal to have an ecig, it is also illegal to smoke non-malaysian cigs, they actually have police that will watch for the special band on located on Malaysian bought cigs, if they see your not smoking the right one that was $15 a pack, you get a $500 fine.


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## Anonymous

Geo. Nicotine itself isn't the killer. It's the toxins from the smoke.


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## joubjonn

Exactly. Sorry if I made seem like I'm trying to peddle anything here. That was not my intention.


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## Anonymous

Hey don't worry for myself I didn't read it that way mate.

Jon


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## Irons

Nicotine is a Pesticide.


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## Geo

Nicotine is the active drug in cigarettes that keeps people addicted. The only problem I have with it is the fact that its a crutch people use to prop themselves up. If the goal is to quit smoking, according to the literature, this is not going to help. whether its a short time or a long time, if a person wants to smoke and is addicted to nicotine, substituting one vehicle for another is not going to help. The only way to quit is to quit.


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## joubjonn

Absolutely. No arguing that at all Geo. 

I just couldn't quit it that easy. Some people can. I just fine this to be an alternative. In my opinion a better one.


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## joubjonn

I should say an Alternative to patches or gum which is basically all the same as compared to ecig. Replacements. With different strengths. I never tried the patch but heard a lot of people have issues with itching and the gum tastes nasty and with those two you don't get the other addiction associated with smoking. The smoke and keeping your hands busy while driving.


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## cmiller92

While the gum is an alternative, I find it to be a short term one. When I have stopped smoking out here for a month, the first week I was chewing the gum, but then I stopped completely, no nicotine at all. I think it helped with breaking the hand to mouth habit.

I think with Geos comparison, it is like going from a car to a bike with a small motor, and then after a little bit killing the motor and pedaling.
.


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## Geo

This may actually be a moot point before too much longer. You see, the oils used for the "juice" or "eliquids" is deadly poison. As little as a half drop can kill a child. Since the eliquids are packaged in bright colors and have sweet candy like aromas, its only a matter of time before "accidental" nicotine overdoses involving children will start making the news. All a child needs to do is find an empty, discarded bottle to lick on. The reason it can be purchased now is because the companies making them have not waited for FDA approval. Just because it hasn't been declared a hazard doesn't mean that its not hazardous.


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## necromancer

if i may ? here is my 2 cents, 
tobacco is an addictive drug, (on the addictive side) its no different than crack cocaine, heroin or crystal meth.

if you are addicted to nicotine you are (in fact) a drug addict. thats right, a drug addict.

as a smoker for more then 35 years and someone that has tried to quit many times over the last 20 years, in the last 4 years i have used:

the nicotine patch 21mg & the nicotine gum 2mg, they caused me stomach pain & upset stomach + strange dreams.

the nicotine spray (yuck) your better off soaking your old butts in a jar of water & drinking it. also gave me unstopable hiccups for about 15 minutes after using it.

the nicotine lozenges 2mg, they were ok but i used to many in a day (15 to 20) not within their recommended amount per day.

the pills (champix "canada" or chantix "USA") i would suggest staying away from these, or do so at your own risk. :!: :!: 

best choice if you want to quit is cold turkey, buy gum, candy, straws, tooth picks anything but not something that contains nicotine !
pick up a new hobby like gold recovery  or metal detecting  

there is no such thing as "better nicotine"


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## Geo

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/e-cigarette-poisonings-skyrocket-mostly-kids-n70961


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## goldenchild

Geo said:


> This may actually be a moot point before too much longer. You see, the oils used for the "juice" or "eliquids" is deadly poison. As little as a half drop can kill a child. Since the eliquids are packaged in bright colors and have sweet candy like aromas, its only a matter of time before "accidental" nicotine overdoses involving children will start making the news. All a child needs to do is find an empty, discarded bottle to lick on. The reason it can be purchased now is because the companies making them have not waited for FDA approval. Just because it hasn't been declared a hazard doesn't mean that its not hazardous.



Geo,

I'm afraid you are mistaken on this one. Ejuice is actually a very simple concoction. Propylene glycol (PG) and or Vegetable glycerine (VG) artificial flavoring and nicotine. That's it! So you have 3 to 4 relatively harmless ingredients. Nicotine being the worst of them. And in very small doses like taken in when vaping nicotine is about the equivalent of caffeine. Coffee is actually most likely worse than vaping with all the sugar :lol: All the mainstream medias will tell you it's bad of course. For one, positive news gets no ratings for them. Also, we know big tobacco has a stake in it. They need to tell you vaping is bad. They don't think much of your intelligence however as they want you to believe smoking is "better". 

I cant tell you the number of people that try to say there is antifreeze in it. That's the media at work. On this forum of all places we KNOW that ethylene glycol in NOT propylene glycol. But again that is propaganda. Many are easily made what to think by the media. I'll leave you with this. If there are no "real" studies on the effects of ecigs how can anyone say for sure they are bad?


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## necromancer

goldenchild said:


> If there are no "real" studies on the effects of ecigs how can anyone say for sure they are bad?



They are smoked, anything that is smoked is bad for you. (scientific fact)



goldenchild said:


> Propylene glycol (PG) and or Vegetable glycerine (VG) artificial flavoring



which of the above was meant to be turned into a vapor & put into the lungs ? & how long has the human body had to know that smoke is bad for you ?

i would say before the caveman.


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## goldenchild

necromancer said:


> goldenchild said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there are no "real" studies on the effects of ecigs how can anyone say for sure they are bad?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are smoked, anything that is smoked is bad for you. (scientific fact)
> 
> 
> 
> goldenchild said:
> 
> 
> 
> Propylene glycol (PG) and or Vegetable glycerine (VG) artificial flavoring
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> which of the above was meant to be turned into a vapor & put into the lungs ? & how long has the human body had to know that smoke is bad for you ?
> 
> i would say before the caveman.
Click to expand...


There is no smoke. The PG or VG is vaporized. Vaping would be the same as drinking PG or VG. Have you seen how many things PG is already used in? Your body can tolerate it as much as anything else. And well... VG is VG. I don't think I need to defend artificial flavorings as they are already in so many things we ingest on a daily basis. It would be a moot point. Again, that leaves us with nicotine. If you want nicotine to be the bad guy then you have to put coffee and soda right along side of it. They have the same effects. I just don't understand why e-cig is so much scarier than the stuff that is already out there?


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## necromancer

i would agree that simply breathing todays air is bad for us all.

ingesting is very different then inhaling, i see you are a smart person & do you agree that:

""ingesting is very different then inhaling"" the stomach has acids that destroy organic & non organic matter, the lungs do not. 

i am just saying that we "as humans" don't know the true effects of vaping, its too new ! we will see the medical effects in 10 or 20 years.

it may turn your lungs into polymer in 20 years, we don't know yet. we must take the unknown into account.

(this may need to go into the debate section) :roll:


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## rickbb

Irons said:


> Nicotine is a Pesticide.



Yep and a very good one. I use it in my garden, boil 2 cigs in a pan of water, let it cool and filter into a quart spray bottle. Add a teaspoon of plain liquid soap, (NOT the kind with antibacterial crap in it), fill with water and you have the best insect killer money can buy.

Keeps the dreaded Japanese beetles off the roses better than anything you can buy in a store.


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## Woodworker1997

I love my vaporizer. I've had it for three months. I only had one cigarette in the past few weeks and it tasted horrible. 
My breathing has become easier, I have lots more energy and vaping is way cheaper.

Just my opinion.

Derek


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## necromancer

rickbb said:


> Irons said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nicotine is a Pesticide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep and a very good one. I use it in my garden, boil 2 cigs in a pan of water, let it cool and filter into a quart spray bottle. Add a teaspoon of plain liquid soap, (NOT the kind with antibacterial crap in it), fill with water and you have the best insect killer money can buy.
> 
> Keeps the dreaded Japanese beetles off the roses better than anything you can buy in a store.
Click to expand...


but not good on tomato's or potato's. tobacco is a toxin to them.


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## Anonymous

Cigarettes contain cadmium - vaporisers don't. Case closed really.


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## necromancer

spaceships said:


> Cigarettes contain cadmium - vaporisers don't. Case closed really.



lol, 
due to the sites regulations i am unable to fully comment on your rational.

what i said above is:
if you are addicted to nicotine you are (in fact) a drug addict. thats right, a drug addict.
drug addicts will say and do anything to get themselves to believe that what they are doing is acceptable.

as a smoker of 35 years & still a smoker right now, i know this, its true.
i am not talking about something i seen on the Dr. Phil show i am talking as a smoker & "if you are addicted to nicotine you are (in fact) a drug addict"

the comment i replied to is not a comment of a logical, rational human being.

no insult intended, its very tough to get a drug addict to see the truth !


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## necromancer

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/nicotine/nicotine_data_sheet3.shtml

http://www.chemicalspec.com/Food-Grade_PG.pdf

http://www.humco.com/_pdfs/data-sheets/1031-Glycerin.pdf


links from: the largest e-cigarette website in the world
dedicated to protecting ex-smokers' rights, protecting the right of smokers to switch to far safer alternatives..... etc.


your putting it in your body, glad i smoke tobacco, talk in 20 years


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## necromancer

notice how it says "far safer alternatives"
and in no way says "safe alternatives"


Hooray for english wording, causing confusion the world over  

would you switch these 2 sayings for $8.54 billion dollars a year ??


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## Anonymous

Necro I don't deny that I must be a drug addict if I smoke, so no offence taken at all sir.

My comment was actually rational in the context it was intended because the debate was about ecigs vs normal cigs, not smoking in general.

ecigs don't produce the 300 plus toxins that normal cigarettes produce, Cadmium being one of them. So from my laymans perspective the ecig wins over the normal cigarette hence my comment mate. Tada!

Pretty rational I would propose 8)


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## Geo

Which accentuates the fact that they are being mislabeled as a smoking cessation product. The reason it's so hard to quit smoking is the nicotine addiction. By consuming nicotine, you are not breaking the nicotine addiction but just mode of consumption. Just because there are no studies saying that the oils and aromatics used are detrimental to a persons health doesn't mean that it's safe, It just means the studies have not yet been conducted. If it takes 5 or 10 years for symptoms to show up, the people over it now will be making the profits and the people 5 or 10 years from now will have to deal with the lawsuits. Perhaps the first child's death due to nicotine poisoning and the ensuing criminal investigation and wrongful death lawsuit will cause lawmakers to force the makers and marketers of these potentially deadly products to conduct the proper studies.


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## Irons

necromancer said:


> rickbb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Irons said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nicotine is a Pesticide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep and a very good one. I use it in my garden, boil 2 cigs in a pan of water, let it cool and filter into a quart spray bottle. Add a teaspoon of plain liquid soap, (NOT the kind with antibacterial crap in it), fill with water and you have the best insect killer money can buy.
> 
> Keeps the dreaded Japanese beetles off the roses better than anything you can buy in a store.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> but not good on tomato's or potato's. tobacco is a toxin to them.
Click to expand...


Tobacco can carry the Tobacco Mosaic Virus that can affect other members of the same Family, such as Potatoes and Tomatoes. Boiling would likely kill the Virus


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## bmgold2

Irons said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rickbb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Irons said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nicotine is a Pesticide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep and a very good one. I use it in my garden, boil 2 cigs in a pan of water, let it cool and filter into a quart spray bottle. Add a teaspoon of plain liquid soap, (NOT the kind with antibacterial crap in it), fill with water and you have the best insect killer money can buy.
> 
> Keeps the dreaded Japanese beetles off the roses better than anything you can buy in a store.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> but not good on tomato's or potato's. tobacco is a toxin to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tobacco can carry the Tobacco Mosaic Virus that can affect other members of the same Family, such as Potatoes and Tomatoes. Boiling would likely kill the Virus
Click to expand...


I have a friend that used to make a tea from old cigar butts that he used to kill bugs in his garden. I've seen it instantly kill all kinds of pests. On another note, I think I read once that some of the E-cigs were being made using nicotine extracted from non-tobacco plants like tomatoes. If that's true, I'll bet that really got the big tobacco companies fighting to ban the E-cigs.


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## steyr223

You guys are all allowed an opinion! I guess. 

But your all wrong  

I have smoked tops tobacco for the last 20 years 
They don't have near the nicotine of regular smokes
Nor a lot of the toxins

Yes i am an addict ,but only when i don't have them :shock: 

I dont wake up coughing and breath just fine.

You know you would figure the government would have 
Found a way to exploit this by now .or maybe they have?

Jewiz whatever happend to dmso. :lol: 
Steyr223 rob


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## artart47

Hi friends!
An old man was married to his wife for 45-50years. he loved being married. he and his wife had a whole lifetime of memories, played golf, went out for dinners, went camping with their children and many other things.
His wife passed away! The poor guy is devestated. His adult children rally around him. they take him out to his favorite place to eat, but it's no longer enjoyable because he always shared the experience with her and she's no longer there. They take him camping, he goes golfing and doesen't find it pleasurable anymore. even being home he looks up expecting her to be there. He has shared every pleasure with her and no longer finds anything enjoyable with out her. Don't be surprized if he rushes into getting remarried....
I examine my smoking. When do I really enjoy a cigarette? When I'm bustin my ass, pouring concrete, choppin clay shaping a pool bottom, etc... I stop for a minute to have a smoke, just finished eating a good meal have a cigarette. right after sex. I have a friend that for decades I've share everything plesurable with. Nicotine isen't my friend and will no longer be a problem after a week or so. My friend is the actual cigarette. the act of smoking the cigarette, looking at it, watching the smoke rise....even anticipating going to have the cigarette as I'm finishing the meal. 
Look at the tabacco ads! never show anyone doing something that you hate while smoking .
I believe that when you stop smoking, the wife just died! and even months later you're going to have trouble finding enjoyment with out the cigarette there to share it with. That could be why so many people quite for a long time and then finally give up and go bach to smoking.

It's just my thoughts about it. 

artart47


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## necromancer

well no matter what is said here or there, i can't see in any way that vaporizing liquids and breathing it in could be better or safer for us.

to me tobacco is tobacco, freshly dried covered in arsenic & formaldehyde, or be it extracted & refined to its most pure & clean form or made in a lab from synthetics, it's all the same "to me"

i truly don't enjoy smoking its just one of those things i feel i need to have (it sucks) and at $10 bucks a pack its not a cheap habbit


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## jimdoc

You should convert that $10 per pack into gold every week.
When you crave a cigarette, just look at your growing pile of gold.

Jim


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## necromancer

i wish it was that easy !!


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## solar_plasma

The worst thing about tobacco is, that it contains natural polonium-210 which emits alpha particles, fairly harmless as long it finds no way into the body, but a real 44.mag to the oxigen bridges of the dna, if ingested or inhaled. 

Nicotine itself is probably only very addictive, it doesn't cause cancer directly.

The rest of toxical substances in the smoke will be found in every pyrolysis, inclusively in your grilled steak and the smoke you inhale under the barbecue.

Even I am a strong smoker, I can't stand smoking ecigs, getting coughing. But compared to tobacco, they are probably only dangerous, if you smash them on your head.
As everywhere: dosis venum facit.


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## solar_plasma

Geo said:


> Nicotine is the active drug in cigarettes that keeps people addicted. The only problem I have with it is the fact that its a crutch people use to prop themselves up. If the goal is to quit smoking, according to the literature, this is not going to help. whether its a short time or a long time, if a person wants to smoke and is addicted to nicotine, substituting one vehicle for another is not going to help. The only way to quit is to quit.



Very true. Everything else is more or less to deceive oneself. I wonder, if I could quit a third time... :roll: I am mostly annoyed about the money, that could be spend for better things like 10 ounces of silver per month :lol:


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## Geo

This is off topic and I hope that it doesn't shine a bad light on me (any more than normal). Even though I have never smoked a cigarette nor consumed any type of tobacco. Up until my breathing problems became very apparent, I smoked marijuana. It is classified as a controlled substance and illegal under federal law. I was never part of the drug trade because I never bought or sold any. I grew what I smoked. When it became clear to me that my lungs were in bad shape, I quit, And then I got sick. Much like other things that people believe, some true and some not so true, there is research that indicates that consuming it through the lungs as a smoke actually helps COPD because of it's anti-inflammatory properties. I wouldn't recommend anyone use it for that purpose. I can say that when I was smoking it, I breathed much better than after I quit. Do I think that this is what caused my COPD? I don't think it would have made a bit of difference what I was smoking, the damage was caused by acid. Is it as good as medicine from a doctor? There are medicines that work well to control COPD and do not cause further harm to your lungs. Would I use it for that purpose if it wasn't illegal? Depends on what the doctor says. When I was able to do it, I liked it. It was much cleaner than drinking without the terrible hangover. Would I ever recommend it to anyone? Of coarse not. Never put your self in a situation that could cost you your livelihood (random drug test at work) or your freedom (criminal charges). At the time, I was young and had no responsibilities. People say that you cant get addicted to marijuana but I sure did. I was irritable, cranky and hard to get along with if I didn't have it. It was one of the hardest habits I ever had to break because I really wanted the stuff. I determined that for whatever else I was good for, I wanted to be a good father. I quit somewhere around twenty years ago and didn't take it back up.


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## solar_plasma

This is absolutely not off-topic and makes the discussion more differentiated and more nuanced. There is just no black or white, when we talk substances, which both have medicinal and toxical and/or addicting effects. As long as I smoke my menthol cigarettes I have almost no problems with my pollen allergy, which makes the decision to stop much harder to me, though I know, the cigarettes will shorten my life, if I don't stop.

By the way, there is no doubt, if alcohol was been invented today, it would be prohibited in shortest time....for good reasons.


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## rickbb

Irons said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rickbb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Irons said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nicotine is a Pesticide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep and a very good one. I use it in my garden, boil 2 cigs in a pan of water, let it cool and filter into a quart spray bottle. Add a teaspoon of plain liquid soap, (NOT the kind with antibacterial crap in it), fill with water and you have the best insect killer money can buy.
> 
> Keeps the dreaded Japanese beetles off the roses better than anything you can buy in a store.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> but not good on tomato's or potato's. tobacco is a toxin to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tobacco can carry the Tobacco Mosaic Virus that can affect other members of the same Family, such as Potatoes and Tomatoes. Boiling would likely kill the Virus
Click to expand...


Very true, but what most people don't know is that cigarettes don't have any tobacco in them. The tobacco is boiled, puréed and the liquid extract is modified with various chemicals and then soaked into tissue paper. 

When you smoke a cigarette you are smoking paper that has been soaked in the liquid extract. That's how the tobacco companies can so easily add more nicotine, (and much other stuff they don't really want you to know about), than was in the original tobacco plant.


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## Anonymous

Can you back that up Rick?


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## solar_plasma

Regarding those cheap brown ugly cigarillo-like cigarettes I would believe it :lol:


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## dannlee

If you doubt reconstituted tobacco is used - let's see your proposal of an alternate system that will produce large enough supplies in huge lots that will keep the 'Brand' recognizable no matter which of the 50 States in which they are purchased... The rural USA warehouse filled with women hand sorting 600-pound pallets of leaf was rapidly disappearing by the 1980's - probably a few left but they produce specialty export-only products.

Lets looks at the US market: 35% of males / 22% of females (28.5% roughly) from a population of 317,820,000 were estimated to smoke. Rounding the consumers to roughly 90,000,000 let's assume they burn 10 cigarettes a day for 905,787,000 units. Multiply that by 365 makes 330,612,255,000 units annually consumed....

Modern tobacco has become such a mass-production industry once it leaves the farmer it's unbelievable. The curing process that destroys most of the nicotine from heat (without the heat cure trying to consume dried tobacco is about like licking an electric fence) and accelerated enzyme & microbial leaf starch & sugar breakdown is handled in tractor trailer sized batches... then they go all scientific on it to level the product to a minimum standard...

Also - If you had to do the work that goes into one store-bought cigarette you'd know they are still cheap at 40¢ each! In 3rd world countries each tobacco plant has been visited up to 1,200 times before it gets the main stem chopped - and that's before field curing, stalk - leaf hanging and rough sorting before auction... I've been told the only thing harder than producing decent tobacco is producing decent bourbon


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## goldenchild

rickbb said:


> Very true, but what most people don't know is that cigarettes don't have any tobacco in them. The tobacco is boiled, puréed and the liquid extract is modified with various chemicals and then soaked into tissue paper.
> 
> When you smoke a cigarette you are smoking paper that has been soaked in the liquid extract. That's how the tobacco companies can so easily add more nicotine, (and much other stuff they don't really want you to know about), than was in the original tobacco plant.



So if I take a cigarette and boil it and then filter it I will have tissue paper? Hmmmmm :|


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## Anonymous

goldenchild said:


> So if I take a cigarette and boil it and then filter it I will have tissue paper? Hmmmmm :|



No you wouldn't because it's tobacco not tissue paper.


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## goldenchild

spaceships said:


> goldenchild said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if I take a cigarette and boil it and then filter it I will have tissue paper? Hmmmmm :|
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you wouldn't because it's tobacco not tissue paper.
Click to expand...


I got a little nervous. Thought I might have been using tobacco leaves on the john :shock:


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## Geo

Tobacco does contain "fillers" which is a blanket term that includes every thing that's intentionally added that's not tobacco such as additional nicotine.


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## Anonymous

True Geo but it's not tissue paper. Seriously that's a foil hat theory.


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## necromancer

my wife was reading this thread, now i think she is going to get me to try a vaping......

she's always telling me i stink :mrgreen:


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## joubjonn

My wife is certainly happier. I don't smell like crap anymore

I switched to the iTaste MVP. I saw in another post you had got an iTaste WW I think. I like it a lot. My Kamry pretty much fell apart. Plastic tank and what not.


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## patnor1011

I am on electric for about a year. I occasionally take regular cigarette but throw it away right after one puff, cant stand that taste in mouth again. I use eGo-T and I am happy that I decided to try them year ago. I mean I would not be able to stop, I tried many times but since year ago I just enjoy menthol taste with minimum nicotine and all smokers symptoms like cough, short breath... disappeared. 
I do not even need to mention obvious financial effect, I now do have quite a lot of extra money which previously went up in smoke.


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## joubjonn

Nice Patnor!
I have eGO W drip atomizer but I'm still learning to build coils so I got the adjustable voltage type iTaste and I like it a lot. Dual coil tank. Just need to get a better mechanical mod first for my dripper


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## necromancer

joubjonn said:


> My wife is certainly happier. I don't smell like crap anymore
> 
> I switched to the iTaste MVP. I saw in another post you had got an iTaste WW I think. I like it a lot. My Kamry pretty much fell apart. Plastic tank and what not.



iTaste V V

here is the post http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=20441#p209409

best deal on the net here http://www.fasttech.com/product/1400400-authentic-innokin-itaste-vv-v3-0-variable-volt

$39.54 usd no shipping fee world wide

so far i am liking this thing


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## necromancer

A SHORT READ..... sorry caps  

systematic review of what the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tells us about health risks

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/


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## goldenchild

necromancer said:


> A SHORT READ..... sorry caps
> 
> systematic review of what the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tells us about health risks
> 
> http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/



Article after article seems to keep pointing towards vaping being much less harmful than cigarette smoking. To me its just logical when you think about what ejuice is made of.


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## necromancer

yes, as i dig further into the scientific studies it has become more and more evident.

and even if it is bad for me, my wife is much happier even though i still have to walk around the back of my building to vape.

as the saying goes, Happy Wife, Happy Life. (for your wife)


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## rickbb

spaceships said:


> Can you back that up Rick?



Yep, worked at a plant one summer, made me sick as a dog just smelling it all day. I only lasted a month, same as when I worked in the fields one summer, good money but it made me sick, absorbing all that sap from walking in head high plants all day. Yuck.

Have many friends working for various plants, all but one of the major makers are almost within stones throwing distance from me. As I sit here writing this I'm 4 miles from BnW main plant and corp. office. It's well known among people in the "bacca" trade. Years ago 60 Minutes did a show on how they are made, not exactly a secret.

Open one up, and look at the material. Does it look like a plant leaf with all the veining and stems? No, it's thin, uniform and almost transparent, like tissue paper. Compare that to a good cigar, cigars are actually made from chopped up leaves and wrapped in a leaf.

They use paper instead of chopped up leaves because they can control the burn rate better and it burns evenly. Something that plant leaves won't do. They can also make it burn when your not drawing on it, so you have to buy more. If you lay a cigar down it will go out, not a cigarette, it burns right up.


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## g_axelsson

I'm not a smoker so I don't have much to add to the discussion.
The "paper" is actually made of tobacco leafs, reconstituted leafs and stems...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vBtq8-Snm8

No, I'm not going to start smoking after seeing that video. :wink: 

Göran


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## necromancer

rickbb said:


> If you lay a cigar down it will go out, not a cigarette, it burns right up.



they put fire retardants in the cigarette paper to keep it from burning if left unattended.
to many people burning there homes down

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_safe_cigarette


yummy






EDIT: added photo


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## rickbb

g_axelsson said:


> I'm not a smoker so I don't have much to add to the discussion.
> The "paper" is actually made of tobacco leafs, reconstituted leafs and stems...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vBtq8-Snm8
> 
> No, I'm not going to start smoking after seeing that video. :wink:
> 
> Göran



Same way they make paper, pulp up some fiber, treat it with chemicals, add the "secret sauce" and roll it out flat.

_"edited to correct spelling"_


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## goldenchild

rickbb said:


> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a smoker so I don't have much to add to the discussion.
> The "paper" is actually made of tobacco leafs, reconstituted leafs and stems...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vBtq8-Snm8
> 
> No, I'm not going to start smoking after seeing that video. :wink:
> 
> Göran
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same way they make paper, pulp up some fiber, treat it with chemicals, add the "secret sauce" and roll it out flat.
> 
> _"edited to correct spelling"_
Click to expand...


Question. Why the "oriental" tabaccos?


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## rickbb

goldenchild said:


> Question. Why the "oriental" tabaccos?



I'm guessing it's more of a marketing thing, and most likely just orental flavorded, (whtever that is). 

Tobacco orginated in North America, any place else that grows it now is growing a US hybrid designed to grow there. (Read cheap labor.)


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## necromancer

vaping is going good, 

i went from spending $300.00 a month on tobacco
to spending $32.18 (shipping included) a month on ejuice

for a savings of: $267.82 a month or $3213.84 a year, i saved enough to vacation for a week with my whole family every year.


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## joubjonn

I'm spending about the same as I did before. But only because it's now a hobby. I got into the rebuildable drip atomizers and mech mods. Using different gauge kanthal wire and coming up with new coils and wicks. It's a lot of fun. Couple guys at work are just as into it. We compare builds every day out in the smoke shack.


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## goldenchild

necromancer said:


> vaping is going good,
> 
> i went from spending $300.00 a month on tobacco
> to spending $32.18 (shipping included) a month on ejuice
> 
> for a savings of: $267.82 a month or $3213.84 a year, i saved enough to vacation for a week with my whole family every year.



I'm glad you came around on the subject. I think you are starting to see all the positives in vaping vs cigarettes (besides the financial benefits). How do you feel? Healthwise that is. I bet 100% better


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## patnor1011

I am on innokin brand for about year, I use tobacco mix 11-18mg with a few drops of menthol or lemon flavor. I see major improvement healthwise after year of quitting regular cigarettes. I do have one occassionaly but only manage 4-5 puffs then I have to stop it just does not feel right. I had like 20 in last year. Truth is you will never stop I mean you will always have that urge no matter how much time will pass. Smoking is highly addictive, should be classified as narcotics are.


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## necromancer

goldenchild said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> vaping is going good,
> 
> i went from spending $300.00 a month on tobacco
> to spending $32.18 (shipping included) a month on ejuice
> 
> for a savings of: $267.82 a month or $3213.84 a year, i saved enough to vacation for a week with my whole family every year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad you came around on the subject. I think you are starting to see all the positives in vaping vs cigarettes (besides the financial benefits). How do you feel? Healthwise that is. I bet 100% better
Click to expand...



yes, its a 180o flip.

i have never had any hard health effects from smoking other then some wheezing on hot summer days, i will see this summer if it's the same.

my wife does enjoy that i don't stink up the house with smelly clothing & tobacco breath but i still have to go out doors to use my vaporizer.


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## necromancer

patnor1011 said:


> I am on innokin brand for about year, I use tobacco mix 11-18mg with a few drops of menthol or lemon flavor. I see major improvement healthwise after year of quitting regular cigarettes. I do have one occassionaly but only manage 4-5 puffs then I have to stop it just does not feel right. I had like 20 in last year. Truth is you will never stop I mean you will always have that urge no matter how much time will pass. Smoking is highly addictive, should be classified as narcotics are.



i also have an innokin (itaste V V) my ejuice is smooth tobacco 24mg, i just placed a order for menthol smooth that i am going to mix.

i found canadaejuice.com good prices & lots to choose from and there customer service if very helpful.


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## patnor1011

I buy stuff for pennies directly from manufacturers in china. My monthly vaping cost me like 2 packs of regular cigarettes.


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## necromancer

patnor1011 said:


> I buy stuff for pennies directly from manufacturers in china. My monthly vaping cost me like 2 packs of regular cigarettes.




china ? the same china that is recycling sewer wastes to get cooking oil ? and telling people there is only a 10% chance you will get sick from using it
personally i do not buy any food grade "anything" from china just don't trust it at all :!: 

my wife bought a big box of snow peas from costco (grown in china) i brought them back because i have no idea where they were grown & whats in the soil

please be careful with your chinese ejuice.


"China Turns Sewer Waste Into Cooking Oil"
http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/10/31/sustainability-gone-awry-chinas-gutter-oil-industry


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## joubjonn

i think Patnor's talking about http://www.fasttech.com/

that is where you want to buy hardware, anything from mech mod's to batteries. 1/4 of the price. most of it is knockoff's but thats fine with me. actually most of the vape shops around me buy everything from them and mark it up x4. i have not bought any juice from them, not that i wouldn't, i'm just a bit more particular on what i get. i like mostly 100% VG with 6-12mg/ml nicotine. i get my kanthal wire from whoever sells it the cheapest.


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## patnor1011

What do you think where is your stuff coming from?
Everything even remotely connected with vaping is coming from china.


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## joubjonn

or the Philippians, like this guy
http://bevapehappy.com/shop/preorder-gi2-70-watt-mod-by-grand-innovations/

i want it so bad! but $300 is just too much cash for a vape box.


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## joubjonn

their are a few US companies that are making this stuff, you pay ALOT more for it, most of the stuff coming from china are knockoff's. like the drip atomizers/mech mods/etc. yea i'm sure those cheap throw away things they sell in the gas stations are all chinese made for sure. but the good juice and the name brand stuff is mostly made in the US or the Philippines, surprisingly they are the ones with the most innovation on this stuff, making quality too. and it's very expensive. your talking $300 for a name brand US made mech mod and dripper compared to $40-50 from fasttech.com knockoff.

http://www.johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com/
good juice in the USA

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10007050/1573500-patriot-style-Patriot rebuildable-dripping-atomizer cheap knockoff from China $5

http://www.vaporlabsonline.com/Innovape-Patriot-24K-Gold-Full-Unit_p_910.html
real one made in the USA $99


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## necromancer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kSiyfPQFo#t=43

A recent study performed by Dr Farsalinos revealed the presence of some potentially harmful-to-inhale ingredients in electronic cigarette liquids


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## goldenchild

The video is vague at best. It seems they are just trying to raise money. Once again... if you buy from a reputable dealer the only ingredients in e-juice are polypropylene glycol/vegetable glycerin, nicotine and artificial flavoring (sometimes natural).


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## necromancer

yes, knowing is always best. we will see in a year or so.

science will find out soon enough, i still think its 99% better then smoking tobacco.


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## goldenchild

I found another benefit to vaping last night. Last night I happened to look down at my forearm and saw a tick. It was just starting to borough into my skin. When I pulled it off my skin ever so slightly came up with it. I promptly put a drop of e-juice on it and it killed it dead! Lights out game over instantly. I wonder if there is a market for edible bug repellent?


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## butcher

As a kid we grew tobacco and used it for several medicinal purposes, bug in the ear, smoke was blown into the ear (not sure if it killed the bug or not, or smoked him out), but the warm smoke would help with the ear aches, poultices were also made of tobacco as well as other many other plants, and things like bee honey (many times using carbon).

Tobacco was chewed, sniffed and smoked, even by us young-uns.

The lit end of a cigarette was good for chiggers and ticks, or to burn the infection from a sore.
The carbon ashes worked for a poultice, although carbon wood was better to suck out poisons.

Many things, which can be poisonous, may have medicinal properties if used in limited quantity, I suspect nicotine would also.

Nicotine I believe has been used as an insecticide

I have smoked since before I went to school as a young man; I learned to roll cigarettes before I learned my ABC's. When I was a child in diapers I had a tobacco pipe as a pacifier, I am an addict to nicotine, and tobacco in several forms (half a century later).


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## necromancer

does anyone use e-juice with alcohol in it??

i tried it and did it ever make me sick......


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## Shark

In the early days of zoo's with live animals, nicotine was used as a tranquilizer. It was used on wild animals with the intent of moving them into a zoo. The main problem was they could not use it as today's tranquilizers are used. Today, the species and the animals size determine the amount and type. With the nicotine type the best they could achieve was a 50% survival rate. Species, weight, and other factors normally used to determine the amount needed did not work with nicotine. One half of all wild animals shot with nicotine died with in minutes. It was determined later that animals that survived the first dose had a higher tolerance for future doses. To consistently kill an adult elephant an amount of nicotine equaling one carton, or 200 cigarettes would work 100% of the time in an animal that had never been injected with it before. Those finding played an early role in things like patch's and gums to curb cigarette usage. It was also one of the items used to place the patch and gum out of the reach of children when sold, thus the age requirement for their purchase. I also still smoke, and use the e-vapor type more now. I don't see it as a replacement or even an improvement over tobacco usage. But, with common sense it does avoid the added chemicals, especially the tar, which is the real lung killer from everyday smoking.


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