# Pouring "shots" with air pressure



## samuel-a (May 29, 2011)

A while ago iv'e been discussing with one of my refined gold buyers about the subject, he suggested the following design, explaining this is how the pro's are making small casting grains, either alloys and fine gold.

I guess the entire cup and lid should be made out of clay or other ceramic material and heat should apply to it to counteract the freezing caused by the air pressure. He didn't mentioned bottom holes diameter and amount so i'm assuming 1/8" or less is required.

I still don't have the required setup to try this design and share my experience, but hopefully someone will find it useful.
One thing that i can think of, fine gold for example would probably needs to be heated to above 1200C for this pour to be successful.

Any thoughts?


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## eeTHr (May 29, 2011)

You could possibly stick a paint removal heat gun nozzle into the end of the handle. You would need to have a way of keeping the lid on, though.


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## Harold_V (May 30, 2011)

Unless you have a huge volume of gold to shot (thousands of ounces), that setup isn't required. A simple single port (1/8" in diameter) in the bottom of a melting dish, to which gold is poured from another melting dish, will yield a volume of gold few can hope to acquire. 

My point is you can keep things very simple and still achieve exceptional results. 

Harold


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## samuel-a (May 30, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> My point is you can keep things very simple and still achieve exceptional results.



Yes, i totally agree with you.
But was interested with the whole idea, how viable is it and how well will it work.

My next point was actually similar to yours and as a gesture to your bowl of conflake, which really inspired me, i took this picture of only 1.6 Ozt simply poured slowly to a deep 40" tank.


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## Harold_V (May 30, 2011)

That's pretty good results for pouring, Sam. I never had much success by pouring--generally got cornflakes instead. Only when I was given the tip about dribbling from an orifice did I finally come up with shot on a consistent basis. The only exception to that was the odd occasion where I'd make strings of gold. By circulating the water, that came to an end. I'd use a small pump in the bottom of my tank which started the water swirling. That's all it took to end the problem. I'd also ice the water because I generally melted a large amount at one time, and hot water doesn't cool the gold fast enough to prevent molten gold from hitting the bottom. I was restricted to depth--only about 14" in my tank. A deep one would have been an improvement. 

Harold


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## rusty (May 30, 2011)

The shot maker described in the attached file is on my todo list. The shot maker is for making lead shot used in shotgun shell reloading but should give you ideas of how to convert to making nice round gold shot.

Regards
Rusty


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## samuel-a (May 30, 2011)

Thanks Gil. 
It really does open my mind to new ideas.


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## Militoy (May 30, 2011)

samuel-a said:


> A while ago iv'e been discussing with one of my refined gold buyers about the subject, he suggested the following design, explaining this is how the pro's are making small casting grains, either alloys and fine gold.
> 
> I guess the entire cup and lid should be made out of clay or other ceramic material and heat should apply to it to counteract the freezing caused by the air pressure. He didn't mentioned bottom holes diameter and amount so i'm assuming 1/8" or less is required.
> 
> ...



Not that I'll likely need such an arrangement in the near future - but I'm trying to put my head around exactly how the thing works. Is the melt poured into the top, and then the pressure applied after the top is sealed - or does the density of the molten charge prevent air from venting out the top and splattering the gold? Seems to me if the latter is the case, the top melt would still vent after the resistance of the material in the bottom of the bowl exceeded the weight of the incoming melt. If it is an open system, how is the mass of the melt balanced against the air pressure? :?:


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## qst42know (Jun 1, 2011)

What is gained by the air pressure besides additional technical difficulty?

Are you looking to make rounder shot, smaller shot?

If smaller is the goal I would try smaller holes and perhaps higher temperatures. 

For rounder shot pour further from the water alowing the beads to set up before they hit the water.


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## Anonymous (Jun 1, 2011)

Oh Heck! I saw the title was "Pouring Shots" and I got all excited! Sam you should know better than to say something like that around me! :mrgreen:


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## 4metals (Jun 1, 2011)

I agree with Harold, keep it simple. 

This simple setup has produced as little as a few kilo's of gold shot up to 750 ounces in a single pour. Simple, no compressed air, just gravity and cold water.

Start with a tank and a simple rack to hold a drilled crucible over the water.


Then pre heat the drilled crucible until it is red hot. I just suspend it over the gold while it's melting, an unglazed clay-graphite crucible is best.


Then place the hot drilled crucible in the rack over the water


And pour


then wait for it to all run out



and there's the shot on the bottom


now you just drain the water, dry the shot, sell it, and buy more scrap.
OH and it looks like this.


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## qst42know (Jun 1, 2011)

Nice tool 4metals.

Have you ever tried pouring from different heights?


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## samuel-a (Jun 2, 2011)

Very nice setup 4metals, thanks for shring your pics.

qst42know
I guess the usage of air pressure is to make smaller beads rather then rounder ones, i'm not sure. This is not my idea after all.
As harold and 4metals mentioned K.I.S.S, this setup has no use unless huge amount of gold is poured and client want small beads. I tend to agree with that opinion.

As per your suggestion to use smaller holes, i think there's a limit to how small it can get due to the high surface tension of the molten gold.

This thread turned out better then i expected and probably stop me from a wild goose chase. Thanks all.


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## Harold_V (Jun 2, 2011)

4metals said:


> OH and it looks like this.



Damn, that's some real pretty shot, 4metals. 

Harold


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Jun 2, 2011)

4metals:

WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I do thank you for sharing it with us.

Have a nice day.

Manuel


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## Oz (Jun 4, 2011)

Samuel,

If you with to make very fine shot of pure gold, you should look up the atomizer 4metals has written about elsewhere on the forum. The intent was originally to reduce particle size for rapid digestion or high silver content karat gold, but it would work for pure gold as well.


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## samuel-a (Jun 4, 2011)

Thanks Oz.

Iv'e read the post again (the one with atomiter), the angled wood idea that Harold mentioned there looks promising to me, much more simpler and i can probably try it the very next time i pour metlas.
I have a flat and smooth piece of alumina that i can fix at a 50-60 angle just above water line (or just under?). 
I assume, since it is a refactory material, it will work even better then wood and nothing will stik to it. (anyone think otherwise?)


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## samuel-a (Jun 5, 2011)

samuel-a said:


> Thanks Oz.
> 
> Iv'e read the post again (the one with atomiter), the angled wood idea that Harold mentioned there looks promising to me, much more simpler and i can probably try it the very next time i pour metlas.
> I have a flat and smooth piece of alumina that i can fix at a 50-60 angle just above water line (or just under?).
> I assume, since it is a refactory material, it will work even better then wood and nothing will stik to it. (anyone think otherwise?)



Well.... that was a bit disappointing..
I fitted a contraption that will hold the piece of alumina just above water line... look what happens next.
I tried it when submerged as well but got similar effect, maybe changing the angle of the contraption and high of pour may bring better results.
Not really what i would want pure guld to look like. On the other hand, it can be wonderful for inquarted metals.
Those leafs are very thin and nothing sticks, it just slide off into the water.


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