# Finally got a button



## mrsanders02 (Feb 17, 2014)

I have been enjoying working at this hobby for about a year, mostly very small amounts in test tubes. I finally accumulated enough cinnamon colored powder to do a melt, and purchased a MAPP torch. After cracking three cheap crucibles I went down the beach and collected a couple rocks, used a grinder to create a depression in one and seasoned it with borax. Put in the powder and heated till liquid. These two little buttons total about 5 grams.
How do they look ?


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## bmgold2 (Feb 17, 2014)

Look GREAT to me. I'm also working with very small amounts of material and acids. I'll be happy to get one like your little one from my efforts for my first button. I'm getting closer. Right now I have a small bottle with my dissolved gold in it and am waiting for my order of SMB to get here. I still need the MAPP gas torch.

I'll probably use a cupel for my melting dish for my first button just because I still have a couple of them left. Seeing your buttons of gold encourages me to keep going. I love to see other people's first gold. I love seeing everyone's gold no matter if it is their first one or not but that first one seems special to me.

I have no intention of selling my first button so I'm not real concerned about getting a large button. Something big enough to pick up will be fine with me. My actual plan is to put it in a cardboard coin holder and put it with my coin collection just to look at and compare with any future gold I might get.

Good job and thanks for posting it.


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## butcher (Feb 18, 2014)

The gold looks great.


Now you can spend a couple of dollars on a good melting dish.


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## artart47 (Feb 18, 2014)

Hi Mrsanders !
Great looking buttons you have there! Good job. Now you're hooked! 
Curious, how did the rock dish work for you? does it take a long time to get hot compared to a regular meltting dish?
Keep up the good work! artart47.


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## g_axelsson (Feb 18, 2014)

A warning here, rocks are not generally suitable for melting metals in. Thermal expansion can easily flake off pieces of rock or totally crack a stone sending melted metal all around.

I'm speaking from experience, I had a too close call in my youth. I tried to melt some copper and silver and put it in a depression in a rock, then took a gas welder and blasted it with heat. I must have heard a sound because I flinched and closed my eyes just before the small piece of rock hit and made a small blister on my eye lid! :shock: 

... since then I have made it a rule to never apply excessive heat to anything not designed to take it.

Nice gold, it deserves a proper dish! 8) 

Göran


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## bmgold2 (Feb 18, 2014)

Check out this thread on seasoning and using a melting dish.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=6122

Also, try Lasersteve's site and watch his video.

http://goldrecovery.us/site.asp

Keep up the good work.


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## mrsanders02 (Feb 20, 2014)

Thanks all for the kind words and feedback.
For those that expressed concern over my home made rock melting dish, I first tried several store bought crucibles, and a Corian cup.
The crucibles cracked before the material melted, the Corian cup cracked on cool down.
I collected several varieties of rock from the beach, grey and pink granite, some smooth mudstone and some smooth sandstone. I heated them to red hot with nothing in them first, expecting them to explode,blow apart or at least crack.
The pink granite did flake off a few small pieces on first heating, but that stopped. The grey granite worked the best, but has developed a small crack on one end, not close to the depression that I ground into it for the metal, but bears careful watching. After I felt reasonably confident they would hold up, I seasoned them with melted borax, they have a nice glassy surface now. I have used the pink granite twice and the grey one three times. The grey one has a better depression in it.
I have since taken delivery of a set of crucibles with a wire "whip" handle. They had good reviews on Amazon, cost about $21. I hope they work as well as my home made device. The rocks worked for the small amount of metal I was working with, but I have about an ounce of foils to go now.
The next step is finding an outlet to sell some, I could use a few dollars for more supplies and equipment. So far I'm only into it for about $140.00,but I am ready to ramp up I think, I have close to an ounce of foils and a couple of pounds of RAM and Chips to process.
BMGold2, I really like your idea of keeping the first button, I think I'll do that. I'll process some more foils and sell the next button.
AtArt, The rock actually seems to hold the heat better than the crucibles and cups I used before, I was surprised that they worked at all, and really surprised that they worked SO well. As I said I was careful to try them a couple times before putting metal into them. I use a large stainless bowl filled with sand, and place the crucibles,cups and rocks into the sand. The bowl is placed on an aluminum plate. I wear safety glasses and gloves and watch carefully for cracks and half expect an explosion at all times.
Butcher, Thanks, can you recommend a source/ brand for good melting dishes? What do you use? I only resorted to the rocks because everything I tried up to that point cracked and broke. I lost small amounts of material each time. I am going to try the ones I just bought on Amazon this weekend, but I am open to suggestions. That's why I come here, You guys are the best. I would never have been able to get this far without the forum. Thank you all!


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## mrsanders02 (Feb 20, 2014)

BMgold2, I watched almost all the videos on lazersteve's site before I even got to the point where I had any powder to melt. Actually I would have never got there without him. This place is a tremendous resource and all you guys are great. I think I did it right on the first two crucibles,started slow, applied heat gradually, I think they were just cheap junk. Probably was a mistake to try the Corian cup it worked for the melt but shattered as it cooled. 
I just realized it sounds like I am making excuses, that is not my intent. I have made PLENTY of stupid mistakes trying to learn this stuff, but I have done the studying , reading and used the resources available here. And safety is a primary concern. No amount of gold is worth injury.
I really like my eyes, lungs and fingers.


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## butcher (Feb 20, 2014)

http://goldrecovery.us/pricing.asp


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## mrsanders02 (Feb 20, 2014)

Thanks for the link Butcher. 
I hate to be a pain in the A**, but can I get you to tell me which cup or crucible YOU prefer?
I looked at this site early on, before I was ready to do any melting, the multiple choices just confused me then.
I have a little ( very little ) more experience now, at least I know a bit more what to expect. 
I would much prefer to buy stuff from someone connected to the forum like Lazersteve, I think he probably vetted his products better 
than any place on Amazon. I just kind of forgot he sold equipment.
I understand if you are reluctant to make specific recommendations, but I am wondering what worked best for you ?
So which one do you like best?

Thanks again,


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## butcher (Feb 21, 2014)

Item # 20 works well for a general purpose 3" melting dish for $4.25, I normally buy a few at once, using the older dishes for dirty melts.
Later as you melt more metals you may find a need for the different types of dishes, or the crucible or the cupel which each have their own applications.

There are several places you can buy your melting dishes or supplies, Laser Steve is very reasonable on his prices, he may have some other things you can use as well.

Here is another source for supplies I like to use. 
http://www.lacywest.com/downloads.htm

I am not advertising for any one.


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## lazersteve (Mar 6, 2014)

The fire clay dishes are good for gold and silver melts, but only last for a few uses depending on how dirty the material is and how well you prepare them (drying and glazing). Water and hot iron in your flux will eat them up quickly. 

All of the silica (white) dishes are good for more melts and more durable. They can also be used for PGMs in a pinch, but don't last as long when subjected to the higher temps of melting PGMs. 

For PGMs I recommend the Long Life High Temperature (#29) dish. These dishes last much longer.

All oven ware have to be treated properly to last. You must take care not to get them wet for the longest life. Fire clay items must also be slowly heated before use to drive off any water trapped in the structure. Rapid heating or cooling of fire clay will result in cracking which ultimately leads to failure of the item.

Cupels are used primarily for assays, but some guys use them for very small scale melts (<5 grams). They are usually destroyed after one melt. 

Any dish that cracks or becomes vitrified (glass like surface bubbles ) should not be used for melting as these conditions indicate approaching failure of the dish structure. 

It is advisable to keep several dishes on hand for each metal type. Reserve one set of dishes for clean melts and the other for dirty melts. You should have dishes devoted to each metal you work with as well (Au, Karat, Ag, Sterling, Pt, and Pd) .

Steve


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## sharkhook (Mar 6, 2014)

Thanks, butcher and lazersteve, that is some of the best description of how to choose a melting dish i have found.


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