# Geo's Guessing Contest



## Geo

OK guys, here it is. I know it's not much but it is from the heart. A couple of years ago, i said that i would sponsor a contest to show my appreciation for all the help i have recieved. 

the rules are simple, the person who guesses correctly on either contest will win immediately. If no one guesses correctly, the contest will continue until Feb. 15 2014 at 11:59 PM. The person who's guess is the closest to the actual weight will win that contest. One guess per member on each of the two contest named contest #1 and contest #2. Members with dual or multiple usernames are inelegible to guess with more than one username.Example of guesses,
contest #1 ??.?g
contest #2 ??.?g
The material that will be guessed on is a sample of gold foils. The foils are all military grade because i took the components from military hardware. Other than the pictures, there will be no other clues. Each member will guess the total weight of the foils for contest #1 and and the refined melt weight for contest #2.










The prizes for this contest will be supplied by me and i will ship the prizes anywhere that the USPS delivers to by priority mail. Either winner can supply their own shipping if they wish.

The Prizes, 
for contest #1, the prize will be a 1.7g button of gold refined by me




for contest #2, the prize will be this beautiful 1.9g button of gold refined by me.




Everyone is welcome to guess and i hope everyone has a little fun. Good luck and good guessing.


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## ericrm

cool im first ... i guess 85.1g for both contest


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## Anonymous

60G and 50G


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## martyn111

contest 1 71.3 grams
contest 2 69.3 grams


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## goldaa

contest 1 85.2 contest 2 65.4


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## cnbarr

#1- 63.8
#2- 62.2

Good luck everyone and thank you Geo for the generous contest!


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## bmgold2

contest #1 100.0g
contest #2 91.1g

bmgold2


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## NoIdea

As i really have "NoIdea", i'll go:

contest1 = 90.0 grams
contest2 = 89.0 grams

Cheers

Deano


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## resabed01

I'm going to lowball it;

1 - 45.3g
2 - 43.0g


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## jonn

#1. 57
#2. 53.1


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## dannlee

97.9g (looks a little packed at the bottom?)
40.7g

Nice photos!


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## rewalston

As I haven't done any foils as of yet, this is completely an "un"educated guess.
78g
56g


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## Dawg

#1 - 73.6
#2- 67.8


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## eastky

88.33 grams First
86.33 grams Second


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## g_axelsson

That is an amazing beaker! :shock: 

Contest #1 87.5g
Contest #2 79.8g

After the contest ends you must tell us how much material you started off with.... if you want. 8) 

Göran


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## galenrog

1: 93.6 gm
2: 84.3 gm


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## Golddigger Greg

#1- 98.9g
#2- 89.5g


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## auratus72

37 grams
33 grams


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## modtheworld44

contest#1-65.2grams
contest#2-64.1grams

Can third prize be that beaker in the picture?LOL :mrgreen: 



modtheworld44


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## glondor

Super contest Geo. Nice foils, nice prizes. My guess, foils = 66 g button will be 62 g.


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## Geo

A few more pictures for motivation.


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## Smack

#1 51g
#2 48.2g


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## moose7802

#1 64 #2 61 great contest Jeff. Those are some good looking prizes. 

Tyler


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## niteliteone

I will guess
contest #1 105.0g
contest #2 102.4g


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## SCB

contest #1 116.8g
contest #2 103.6g


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## FrugalRefiner

I'll be an optimist.

Contest #1 - 120 grams
Contest #2 - 115 grams

Dave


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## gold4mike

Contest 1 - 77 grams
Contest 2 - 66 grams


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## Merle

Contest #1 : 47.3 g
Contest #2 : 44.5 g


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## nickvc

1 92.2grams
2 85.9grams


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## etack

125.3g
107.3g

Eric


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## JHS

#1 -41g
#2 -38.5G


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## danieldavies

#1. 111.5grams
#2. 109.4grams


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## shmandi

#1...142g
#2...127g


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## mls26cwru

#1: 35.7g
#2: 20.5g


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## Anonymous

Hehe there are some seriously optimistic bids here. I suspect that the less optimistic ones are from people who have seen that many flakes in a jar pre processing :lol:


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## sharkhook

#1: 102g
#2 94g

Just a wild guess.


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## rich_2137

1... 96.2g
2... 91.8g


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## jeneje

Here goes a shot, #1=135 #2=128 
Ken


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## MGH

Contest #1 264.3 grams
Contest #2 256.4 grams

I know this sounds really high. Maybe I'm way off base, but I do have a reason. Thanks for the contest, Geo.


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## Platdigger

91, 88


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## artart47

OK Geo here goes!
Contest #1 109grams.
#2 107.5grams
artart47


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## truandjust

Going to guess 67g for #1 and 67g for #2. Thanks for hosting this GEO, I've enjoyed reading all of your posts and watching your videos.


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## Woodworker1997

Contest #1 137.5g
Contest #2 119.8g

Derek.


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## niteliteone

spaceships said:


> Hehe there are some seriously optimistic bids here. I suspect that the less optimistic ones are from people who have seen that many flakes in a jar pre processing :lol:


I'm feeling optimistic here  
I started here on the forum with a 100 ml container of mil spec plated foils from finger boards that look similar to what is shown in the pictures, fluffed and not well packed. (I hope :shock: )
I was actually surprised at how many numbers are below 100 grams.

Did I mention, I am optimistic 8)


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## Anonymous

niteliteone said:


> spaceships said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hehe there are some seriously optimistic bids here. I suspect that the less optimistic ones are from people who have seen that many flakes in a jar pre processing :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm feeling optimistic here
> I started here on the forum with a 100 ml container of mil spec plated foils from finger boards that look similar to what is shown in the pictures, fluffed and not well packed. (I hope :shock: )
> I was actually surprised at how many numbers are below 100 grams.
> 
> Did I mention, I am optimistic 8)
Click to expand...


Haha yes I think you mentioned it once or twice 8) 

I may be a tad overly pessimistic because sadly although Ive done beakers that have 100s of mill of flake in, I have sadly never done military ones!


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## Geo

ok, come on guys. there are many more people here than this would want a little free gold. :lol: 

heres a couple more photos from the foil gathering. sorry about the quality, my son took the pictures. :mrgreen:


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## 5962rz

192.1g
183.1g
???


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## pattt

Ok, I'll give it a Guess :lol: 

1) 150 grams
2) 145 grams

Just a wild guess I guess :mrgreen:
Good luck to all. 

Pat


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## freechemist

*contest #1*: 521 g
*contest #2*: 443 g

Thanks, Geo, for the contest - and the beautiful gold-buttons to win. Should my optimism lie on the winning side accidentally, I will donate it's value to GRF, instead of letting it ship to Switzerland.


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## RoboSteveo

#1 -143grams
&#2- 134 grams


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## Anonymous

Bah foul! :twisted: :twisted: 

Those later pics show the bulk of those flakes better than the jar cos they are in someone's hand!! 

Restart lol :shock: :shock:


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## moose7802

I agree I want a redo! I'm just kidding 8) 

Tyler


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## Geo

the foils in the last pictures is not all the foils in the beaker. just trying to show as much as i can without adding any more information to keep everything fair. 8) if i had shown all of the foils gathered while wet, well that might be a different story.

i need to keep this at the top if i can so members that haven't logged on in a while will see it.


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## shaftsinkerawc

Wild Guess? #1 = 116.63g
#2 = 104.97g


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## MysticColby

great community-building!

contest #1 = 233.3g
contest #2 = 222.2g

I guess that makes me an optimist?


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## chambersjr

94.3
93.1


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## yar

#1 253 g
#2 246.5 g


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## ctgresale

contest #1 72g
contest #2 70g


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## Sharding757

#1 127
#2 109


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## artart47

In the spirit of the kids in the back seat yelling,"ARE WE THERE YET?" 
"DID WE WIN YET? DID WE WIN YET? DID WE........" Ha ha!
artart47


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## bmgold2

artart47 said:


> In the spirit of the kids in the back seat yelling,"ARE WE THERE YET?"
> "DID WE WIN YET? DID WE WIN YET? DID WE........" Ha ha!
> artart47





Geo said:


> the rules are simple, the person who guesses correctly on either contest will win immediately. If no one guesses correctly, the contest will continue until Feb. 15 2014 at 11:59 PM.



Looks like nobody got it exactly right. Still time left for anyone who didn't guess yet.

Go back to page 1 for the contest pictures and rules.


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## Geo

Hey guys. Nice turn out so far and we're at the halfway mark. There's plenty of time to get your guesses in. Two different contest and two chances to win, shipping paid, i would guess even if i was a millionaire :mrgreen: .

Well, again, good luck and good guessing.


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## solar_plasma

contest #1: 373,7g
contest #2: 331,9g


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## solar_plasma

If I should win, donate it to the forum, - the shipping cost and taxes would be horrible.


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## nickvc

solar_plasma said:


> If I should win, donate it to the forum, - the shipping cost and taxes would be horrible.




The same thought crossed my mind and if I win please do the same.


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## flyfisherman

#1-91.7g.
#2-83.5g.


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## goldenchild

Hmmm foils? 
#1 = 30g
#2 = 27.51g


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## blk03001

Taking a guess

Contest 1: 25.7g

Contest 2: 24.3g


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## kole55

1....144gr 2....138gr


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## Geo

we have a couple of close calls but no one has hit the magic numbers yet. 5 more days to get those guesses in.


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## Esau Nisalile

#1 113.7
#2 111.3


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## GOLDbuyerCA

HI Geo, i used your photo, as an illustration of clean material, of value to deplate by a Cyanide process. in the KCN Chemistry process. Nice pictures, good material. thanks for the hint of plating thickness. " better than average " much better. say near 3 times. still, i am going to go with. and it is a low ball guess :> "" quite sweet, good half liter, " i have big eyes, " i am going to guess 11.7 grams stripped. 8.7 grams recovered. that is my swag on it. gl Geo and winner. Edit, i left out the proper decimal place of my SWAG, my value by eye guess, would be 5.8 grams stripped and 4.2 grams Gold button recovered. if it is better than this good for you "Geo" out task at hand is good recovery,"" , enough for ten fill ups of gas, . Cheers, again Nice photos. giving back, for value received, is the hallmarks of a good man. let us get out there and find this good stuff. Thomas in Vancouver.


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## kurtak

#1 = 18 grams
#2 = 15 grams

Foils always look so impressive 

If I win donate it to the forum

Kurt


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## bmgold2

I'm not promising this is right but here's a list of guesses so far to help save people from going through all the pages before they make their guess. I tried real hard to get this to keep the spacing the way I had it...This is the best I could come up with.

If you haven't guessed yet, WHY NOT? 



Code:


Username      #1               #2


ericrm			85.1		85.1

spaceships 		60		50

martyn111 		71.3		69.3

goldaa			85.2		65.4

cnbarr			63.8		62.2

bmgold2		       100.0		91.1

NoIdea			90.0		89.0

resabed01		        45.3		43.0

jonn			        57		53.1

dannlee		        97.9		40.7

rewalston		        78		56

Dawg			73.6		67.8

eastky			88.33	86.33

g_axelsson		        87.5		79.8

galenrog		        93.6		84.3

Golddigger Greg	98.9		89.5

auratus72		        37		33

modtheworld44   	65.2		64.1

glondor		        66		62

Smack			51		48.2

moose7802		64		61

niteliteone		105.0	102.4

SCB			        116.8	103.6

FrugalRefiner		120		115

gold4mike		         77		66

Merle			47.3		44.5

nickvc			92.2		85.9

etack			125.3	107.3

JHS			         41		38.5

danieldavies		111.5	109.4

shmandi		         142		127

mls26cwru		         35.7		20.5

sharkhook		         102		94

rich_2137		         96.2		91.8

jeneje			135		128

MGH			        264.3	256.4

Platdigger		        91		88

artart47		         109		107.5

truandjust		         67		67

Woodworker1997	137.5	119.8

5962rz			192.1	183.1

pattt			        150		145

freechemist		521		443

RoboSteveo		143		134

shaftsinkerawc	        116.63	104.97

MysticColby		233.3	222.2

chambersjr		94.3		93.1

yar			        253		246.5

ctgresale		        72		70

Sharding757		127		109

solar_plasma		373.7	331.9

flyfisherman		91.7		83.5

goldenchild		30		27.51

blk03001		        25.7		24.3

kole55			144		138

Esau Nisalile		113.7	111.3

GOLDbuyerCA	        11.7 (5.8)  	8.7 (4.2)  Not sure which was the guess

kurtak			18		15

metatp                      89.0          87.0

auone                        207           154

denim                        20             17

ferrous                       95.4          83.6

Magua                        100            98


EDITED to add a few more guesses


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## metatp

Hope I'm not too late.

My guess is;

contest #1 89.0g
contest #2 87.0g

Hope those are not taken yet.

Tom


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## dannlee

Since I have now processed some foils...

I'd like to amend my hazarded guess to 33.3% of my original greed, errr, guess...

dannlee: 97.9 / 40.7 revised to 32.6 / 13.55

I know that this maybe NOT to be allowed, no worries... 

Fought through my first tiny set of lids, fingers and traces, been proven how I exaggerate things gold!


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## Geo

dannlee said:


> Since I have now processed some foils...
> 
> I'd like to amend my hazarded guess to 33.3% of my original greed, errr, guess...
> 
> dannlee: 97.9 / 40.7 revised to 32.6 / 13.55
> 
> I know that this maybe NOT to be allowed, no worries...
> 
> Fought through my first tiny set of lids, fingers and traces, been proven how I exaggerate things gold!



sorry dannlee, one guess per. Besides, how do you know your first guess wasnt the closest? :shock:


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## Smack

dannlee said:


> Since I have now processed some foils...
> 
> I'd like to amend my hazarded guess to 33.3% of my original greed, errr, guess...
> 
> dannlee: 97.9 / 40.7 revised to 32.6 / 13.55
> 
> Fought through my first tiny set of lids, fingers and traces, been proven how I exaggerate things gold!




32.6 down to 13.55? OUCH! You should be testing your solutions if that's your typical loss. Well, you should always test after you drop your gold.


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## dannlee

Thanks Geo, I guess we'll find out in a day or so...

Smack, truth there I know. Test and save anyway for now 

Comment was nothing about reclaiming technique, just admitting my little skrat brain amplifies things looking at gold and/or gems.

I can show y'all five little 8-10 point diamonds I dug out of clay tailings that STILL look marble sized to me, after washing 100 buckets of gumball clay to find them.


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## auone

hi everyone
#1 207& #2 154


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## denim

#1 - 20g, #2 - 17g


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## bmgold2

LAST DAY!

Last chance to make your guess. Come on, it's a chance for FREE GOLD!

Go to the first page for the contest rules and pictures and here:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=19910&p=204676#p204676

to see a list of guesses so far. I've updated that message with the guesses up to this point. I still make no guarantees that it is perfect but I did my best at recording each guess all in one place to make it easier than searching all the posts.


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## ferrous

#1 95.4 #2 83.6


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## Magua

#1: 100g
#2: 98g

Thanks for the great information and videos!


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## g_axelsson

Maybe a bit late... but anyone that hasn't put in a guess yet could have help from this thread.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=9457

Göran


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## Geo

Ok, the time has come. First, let me say that it's been a nice turn out on this and I appreciate everyone who took the time to guess for these meager prizes. 
Next, i have to apologize as I have lost the SD card with the photos of the beaker on the scales. Not to worry, I had the weights written down. The weight of the foils was 128.3g so our first winner is Sharding757 with a guess of 127g. The weight of the final melt was 42.8g so our second winner is resabed01 with a guess of 43.0 . 




Congratulations Guys!!! 

Please PM me with a mailing address and i will get your prize's mailed out as soon as possible.


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## sharkhook

Congratulations to the winners!


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## jeneje

That is 1.38 oz. at today price = $1821.20 Wow!!! Nice going guys. Great contest Geo, Well done!!
Ken


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## kurtak

Oh well - you can't win them all  

That's a nice "Paid Day" there Geo 8) 

Kurt


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## resabed01

:shock: Wow, thanks Geo! 

I never thought there would be that much difference in pre and post refining weights. I calculated 5% loss in my guess because those foils looked pretty clean, boy was I off that mark!

Just goes to show how deceiving foils can be.... as with most e-scrap.


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## bmgold2

resabed01 said:


> :shock: Wow, thanks Geo!
> 
> I never thought there would be that much difference in pre and post refining weights. I calculated 5% loss in my guess because those foils looked pretty clean, boy was I off that mark!
> 
> Just goes to show how deceiving foils can be.... as with most e-scrap.



If there is that much loss with the clean looking foils, just think about those "gold drops" being sold on Ebay from melted pins.

Thanks Geo, it was fun and educational even if I didn't win.


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## dannlee

Thanks for the pleasure of seeing open prognosticating to yield - neat to see where the bulk/yield estimates went!

I'll try and trust my eye next time, the 40.6 melt was in the ballpark - but light on the raw foils. Live and learn?

Congrats Sharding757 & resabed01 - good show!


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## Geo

The yield is fairly consistent with what i would normally expect. Harold told a story about a man that brought him a plastic bowl (whipped topping or margarine with a top) full of moist foils to refine. The bowl weighed a little over a pound. I believe that dried and fluffed, it would fill a half gallon jug. The melt weight was in the 6 OZT area. Well the man swore that Harold had ripped him off, cheated and stole from him. From the time I've been on the forum and have gotten to know him through his post and stories, Harold can be described as many things but never a cheat or a thief. If he said that's what the weight was, I trust that it's what the weight was.

I have always said that foil weight will never match refined weight but I never stressed how big of a difference in weight that there was. I knew that the guesses would swing wide in both directions and also assumed that most would guess the two weights close together because the foils do seem to be nice and clean which almost ruled out one person guessing both weights. It was a good contest in my opinion but then I might be a little biased.  

Again, congrats to our winners and thank you everyone for participating.


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## metatp

Congratulations winners!


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## MGH

Geo said:


> I knew that the guesses would swing wide in both directions and also assumed that most would guess the two weights close together because the foils do seem to be nice and clean which almost ruled out one person guessing both weights. It was a good contest in my opinion but then I might be a little biased.


Biased or not, I agree, very nice contest. Thanks again for offering up those prizes, and also for this particular lesson. Even the losers got a good education.


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## niteliteone

Great job Geo and the rest that participated  

One question.
What did you use to recover the foils :?: 
AP, nitric or what.


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## Geo

niteliteone said:


> Great job Geo and the rest that participated
> 
> One question.
> What did you use to recover the foils :?:
> AP, nitric or what.



AP with various components. if i had to break it down it would be something like, half pins, a quarter from odd components like thyristors and relays and the rest was gold traces from boards.


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## flyfisherman

So , the foils were wet then? For some reason I though they were dry. There is no way dry foils could loose that much weight ( about 86g) after refining.


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## Geo

The foils were dry. They were recovered through AP and rinsed in clean water and rinsed in clean hcl and then rinsed in water again and then dried. If you look at the photos closely, you can see hints of green in several places. Also, i believe there was a substantial amount of nickel left on the foils.

If you have ever processed pins in AP before, you may notice that the gold tube that was the pin may start to float. This is gas building up inside the gold tube. Even though it is floating, it doesn't mean that all the base metal is gone. The acid must travel from the open end to the closed end. If the pins are good enough quality for the gold to maintain its shape, the trapped gasses can float a far larger load than just the gold. This can mislead a person into believing that the dissolution of the base metal is finished. when you look at it from this point of view, its entirely possible and in this case, absolutely true. 

For me, it doesn't matter who won as i have nothing to gain. That was the weights, believe it or not.


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## niteliteone

flyfisherman said:


> So , the foils were wet then? For some reason I though they were dry. There is no way dry foils could loose that much weight ( about 86g) after refining.


The devil is in the details :shock: 
With Geo using the AP process, that is.
Whenever I use the AP process, I always have dirty solutions when refining the foils. Just the nature of the beast with that process. So the difference looks normal as far as I have seen with my own recovery ventures. 8) 
So the numbers are completely "believable"  
If you want clean foils that give a clean yellow solution, process the fingers in nitric to recover the foils from clean cut fingers. When I had a supply of free nitric, that was all I used for foil recovery. Sadly my father passed away, so now I have to pay for it.


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## flyfisherman

I do like this contest , dry foils or wet, it would be nice if we have more of this activity . Maybe with the silver this time :idea: This type of the guessing contests really help to edicate the people. For myself i would never guess that there is so much difference between dirty foils and refined. Does anyone know what % of the purity the unrefined foils are? Since they are designed to withstand metal on metal friction ,i think there has to be a good amount of base metal in the gold alloy overvise pure gold being so soft would be striped very fast.


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## niteliteone

Generally the whole plating will be close to pure (.9997 per spec.) as applied to the board at time of plating on top of a nickle layer that is used as a boundary layer and is between the gold plating and the copper on the board.

So depending on how well you removed the base metals under the gold plating will determine the recovered purity of the foils.
When I did mine with nitric, my recovery was over 90% of start weight of the foils. When I used the AP method, I never got any better than 85% recovery no matter how hard I tried.
Just the nature of the processes abilities  
Hope that helps.


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## Sharding757

This is a first! I've never really won anything (always the underdog) LOL. Without words at this time! Thanks for the congrats guys...It will give me a good specimen to shoot for in my refining.


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## artart47

Hey thanks Geo!
That was exciting! "did we win yet? "kinda thing. I was surprized by the difference too. But, I've seen that even with my first half mason jar full when I came here. They sat for along time in HCl and I boiled it very well before it went to HCL/chlorox . Still the loss was large.
Cool I got very close on the gross weight! Surprized myself!
Congrats to you winners!
artart47 


edit; correct term


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## Geo

Sharding757 has received his prize and resabed01 may still be waiting for his to clear customs. If you did receive your prize guys, please respond to this thread.


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## Sharding757

Yes Sir! Received and Happy!!!


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## necromancer

wow hard to believe that those foils weighed that much 

i didn't make a guess on this contest


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## resabed01

The button arrived today Geo. Well done on refining this. Thank you again!


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## Geo

Very Good!! Ok guys, thank you again to everyone that participated. This was a great adventure and you are all a great group of people.


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## FrugalRefiner

Thank you for hosting the contest Geo!!!


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## Sharding757

Yes, thanks for Hosting this Geo!


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