# Displaying price qoutes as scrap buyer



## raghead (Apr 6, 2015)

hi 

I have a question which bothers me a lot but to which i didnt find an answer . 

i opend recently my own shop where i buy and sell , scrap ,bullion and antiquities . its in the citycenter and the location is quiet good compared to the big competition . 

i thought about doing some advertisment ( low budget max roi ) and noticed that no one is displays any qoutes or prices at least not the jewellers or scrap buyers. 

i know the business , i used to sell before on fleamarkets or buy on ads on the local newspaper/ german version of craiglist etc. , you look at the people ,like a shark on his prey .on some you can put a lot of pressure make a good profit , on others not sooo much . 

my approach would be to have an electronic board or standup display , with my bid/ask qoutes which are the same for all . i calculate with margins of 5-15% but on average 10 %

do you think it would attract more people ? or would i just give a way profits ,because people would sell anyway .? besides giving a way my prices ? 

whats your opionion about that ? 

thanks .


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## silversaddle1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Are you going into business to make money? Most sellers will have an idea of what spot is going into your store. Deal with each customer one on one so you can make the most money you can while still being fair. You can't force someone to sell something.


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## raghead (Apr 6, 2015)

thanks for the info . 
well you can not force some one to sell , but its a difference if the person is in need and needs to sell or if he/she comes with confidence and background information as you said . 
to be honest , i hate to take advantage of people or prey on their weak economical condition . but this are the people on which you make profits . forced sellers .


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## MarcoP (Apr 6, 2015)

Here no one display their price list, but if you ask they will happily give you a printed copy.


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## solar_plasma (Apr 6, 2015)

Better poor and able to look at myself in a mirror, than rich and an [think of the vulgar term you desire to].

I have no clue about buy and sell, but I have a clue about people. I think you should make the price you need to get to run your business. Someone who isn't raped when he comes to you in bad times, will also come back when times are better for him and probably he will talk well about you to his friends. Only my personal view of point.


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## modtheworld44 (Apr 6, 2015)

solar_plasma said:


> Better poor and able to look at myself in a mirror, than rich and an [think of the vulgar term you desire to].
> 
> I have no clue about buy and sell, but I have a clue about people. I think you should make the price you need to get to run your business. Someone who isn't raped when he comes to you in bad times, will also come back when times are better for him and probably he will talk well about you to his friends. Only my personal view of point.



solar_plasma

I agree with that.The profits not always in the product you buy,But in the way you treat your customers.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44


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## solar_plasma (Apr 6, 2015)

remembers me to something :mrgreen: I once used to go to a car repair shop and I always have been treated fair for several years...only one only time he seemed to badmouth my car, wanted me to sell it (way under a scrap price I have been offered from others) to someone he knew and wanted me to buy another ("better") car of one of his customers, which has been far overpriced compared to even autoscout.de. Buying 500 cheaper, selling 2000 higher, nice profit of 2500 without any work, only using connections and fast talk....

Well. Only I smell a rip off, I am gone. I guess I am nothing special. ^^


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## Shark (Apr 6, 2015)

When I sell anything, and feel I was treated fair, I tend to return there when I am looking to buy. When I feel like I have been ripped off in a selling situation I will not return to buy later or return to sell again. Return business is a key part of being successful in my opinion, no matter if your buying or selling.


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## 4metals (Apr 6, 2015)

I have found that all sellers do when they have the lowest price is go beat up the refiners they already deal with to get them to lower their price. It is my opinion that all publishing a daily price does is hurt your position in the long run and drive the profits down. In regards to precious metals it is hard to imagine how much smaller margins refiners can work at and still be honest. 

Years ago I produced spreadsheets which contained my costs and daily metal fixes were input to show me my break even point, and different percentages of profit for each scrap type I dealt with. This allowed negotiations with the seller, who was there representing his material, and kept me aware of my bottom line. 

You are suggesting a similar program but the difference is I viewed it discretely from my desk where the seller could not see my figures. You are looking to negotiate a fair deal for both you and your customer while letting him see the data. 

You sir, have much more faith in mankind than I! It has been my experience, and I've refined an ounce or two, that sellers feel they have every right to make as much profit as possible while refiners are already making a killing so we have every responsibility to make as little as we can to just squeak by.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 6, 2015)

raghead said:


> hi
> 
> I have a question which bothers me a lot but to which i didnt find an answer .
> 
> ...


By an average of 10% margin, do you mean you pay 90%? The biggest jeweler in my town pays 50% for karat gold and buys a lot. 

Americans are probably the most ignorant people on earth when it comes to gold. That's probably because we couldn't own it for 40 years. Because of this ignorance, they are constantly taken advantage of. 

I'm not a fan of posting prices, unless you know what your competitors are paying. Then, you can be higher. It's all money. It's easy to send a person(s) out with some karat scrap, every so often, and find out what the competitors will give for it. Most buyers pick out a percent (60, 70, 92, whatever) and base all the prices on that same percent. If you do post prices, don't post percentages - just so much per gram, or whatever.

Another problem with posting daily prices is that you're locked in to that price (or, higher). I see nothing wrong with making the most you can, as long as you're fair. Every deal is different. Fair is a big hard to define word in this situation. With karat gold, buying from the public, in the U.S., I would say 80-85%, after taking a 1/2 karat off. You can sell, all day long, for 98-99+%. If you have the bucks to wait until the pipeline is filled, you can make a lot of money.

If I were to advertise, I would probably start by saying that I pay the highest prices around. I would tell them that different buyers pay different amounts (in the U.S, the average Jill or Joe really doesn't understand this fact). I would somehow tell them to first take their jewelry to other buyers to see what they offer. Then, I would tell them to bring it to me to see what I offer. Then they could take it or leave it. When they come in, I would tell them to not tell me the other offers (they probably would lie, anyway). I would just give them my quote. Here again, it's very important to know what the competition is paying.

That's the way I would do it, at least in the U.S., as a small buyer of karat scrap. Maybe different in Germany.


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## 4metals (Apr 6, 2015)

In New York City they advertise what they pay as a percentage, some guys as high as 99.6 for a kilo of karat scrap. It's one thing for a customer to know what rate you charge and another for everyone to know the best rates you give. Somehow the guy with 5 ounces wants the rate the guy with 500 ounces gets. It is all relative, some guys are paid for silver, others not. Everyone seems to have their own deal. 

It is one thing to advertise what you are paying on a daily basis but to post your rate is a slippery slope.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 6, 2015)

4metals said:


> In New York City they advertise what they pay as a percentage, some guys as high as 99.6 for a kilo of karat scrap. It's one thing for a customer to know what rate you charge and another for everyone to know the best rates you give. Somehow the guy with 5 ounces wants the rate the guy with 500 ounces gets. It is all relative, some guys are paid for silver, others not. Everyone seems to have their own deal.
> 
> It is one thing to advertise what you are paying on a daily basis but to post your rate is a slippery slope.


Damn, is it different here, or what? At those %'s, are you talking from various types of buyers or from a guy that just walked in off the street? 

If I were a gold buyer, here in Podunk, MO, I would buy from buyers. In Podunk, Anywhere, there are lots of gold buyers and most that I've seen don't have New York knowledge. I could probably buy just gold filled from buyers and make enough to live on. Have to travel, though. Need some cash to start with.


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## 4metals (Apr 6, 2015)

The 99% payout is from refiners paying small collectors.

But all over the northeast they claim to pay in excess of 95% at the "We buy gold stores" Gold buyers are prepared to speak to you in terms of grams, pennyweights or troy ounces, whichever you don't understand.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Apr 6, 2015)

What do they do when you understand all of them, go to Drams or Grains?


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 7, 2015)

4metals said:


> The 99% payout is from refiners paying small collectors.
> 
> But all over the northeast they claim to pay in excess of 95% at the "We buy gold stores" Gold buyers are prepared to speak to you in terms of grams, pennyweights or troy ounces, whichever you don't understand.



Not here. No one quotes any numbers at all to the public. They run big, "We Buy Gold" ads in the throwout newspapers and have signs up. Most respondents sell their gold at whatever price they're quoted.


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## Pantherlikher (Apr 7, 2015)

Interesting thoughts from around the world.

As an automotive technician running a few private shops. I've seen and heard all the horror stories from others.

People that knew my work never second guessed my prices or why they needed something done. Because I was up front and told them everything. If I broke something trying to fix something else, I'd tell them and offer to fix it free. ALL thanked me for honesty and paid some or all of the broken fix. I had customers for 6+ years at one place. When they got a bad vibe from the new owner, they asked me and I had to tell them that it was a pleasure working on their autos. New owner couldn't afford me anymore as he lost most of the customers to greed.

Running a flea market stand is not all the fun you'd think either. Buying stuff at auctions or yard sales and then trying to double your $ no matter how much it's worth kind of thing still is not enough for customers. Gotta always try to get a better price for something.
Others market stands would overprice something and let the customer think they got something for less.

Gold buying is entirely different then both. Least every place I've visited. 30% market value was the best price I've heard. And not 1 would explain what the item was worth based on facts, like purity, weight, value. Only give an offer. But advertise they pay the most around.

My biggest concern/ problem? is I need to sleep at night with a clear conscience knowing I was fair and honest. To me it is the most important thing.

B.S.


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## raghead (Apr 7, 2015)

thanks for the many replies . 

well i intented to display my qoutes in euros , for example :

18ct/750 at 23,15 

the price my refiner pays 25,69 

the better jewellery or "scrap " jewellery i would sell at a bigger premium/margin as jewllery and not scrap . 
in order to attract more traffic ,the lower margin of 10% , so i may get more and better items at the shop , which i can sell for better prices . 


but i see the logic behind your points which sound more reasonable than my assumptions .


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## solar_plasma (Apr 7, 2015)

Bad price for that stuff. ESG pays 33,22 €/g Au (incl. all fees) todays price for jewelry.

http://www.scheideanstalt.de/gold-ankaufskurse/

I did not see that you are in Germany. Try to watch some documentary reports on youtube about gold scam. One of four goldbuyers is really honorable and pays up to 100% of gold content. He makes the profit with those jewels, he can resell as is. The other make bad prices in the best case, obvious scam in the worst.


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## 4metals (Apr 7, 2015)

I cannot see how any refiner can profitably pay 100% for gold content and not have to be a bit shady.

Sure, they keep the silver, but what happens to jewelry that is under karat. Surely he does not take a loss. 

In the US refiners charge a premium for chemical stone removal. You cannot melt the lot and pay on assay as you will damage the stones. So they pay on out-turn, or the gold that comes out after refining. Typically they pay 99% of the gold recovered plus a refining lot fee. Maybe the company solar is referring to steers his clients into using his stone recovery service for a fee. I could fill his refinery with goods having valueless gemstones and under karat goods and he will be out of business in no time. (I know a refiner who refers to those valueless stones as aquarium gravel) 

There is more going on there than is apparent at first glance!


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## solar_plasma (Apr 7, 2015)

ESG is testing the material and offers a price. They do not pay for stones, but for silver and all pgms. I don't know. Perman666 has done some more business with them. According his experiences regarding mlcc's (can be found in the forum), they have been very fair as far as I remember. I wished they would not be so far away from here, would love to see how they work.


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