# Mysterious metal sulfide nodules found in PA shale



## Alondro (Feb 25, 2022)

Here are some pics of very dense, VERY hard sulfide nodules I found protruding from several layers of ancient shale in Northeastern PA while on a hike. Many come loose during weathering of the shale and can be pulled straight out. I found others in the adjacent stream bed where they collect in deeper nooks, as they are far denser than the surrounding rock. The SG I've gotten for several is between 5 and 5.5 g/cm3, which seems quite high for rock, and leads me to conclude they must be nearly pure, highly compressed metal sulfide. 

They're extremely hard, as mentioned. It took quite a bit of beating with a rock hammer on solid concrete to break them open. In the pics, you can see streaks of iron pyrite within the mineral. 

I assume they didn't form in the shale, but were rolled into the extremely ancient sea floor, possibly pieces of broken and eroded hydrothermal vents stacks nearby (that region of the Appalachians had multiple periods of plate collisions, volcanism, uplift, and rifting episodes. These would be, therefore, very ancient and possibly contain an unusual mix of metal sulfides.


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## Lou (Feb 25, 2022)

Nice find.

Funny because we would take metal sulfides and dissolve them in strong HCl and leave behind the PGM sulfides which are only soluble in aqua regia (or complexing/oxidizing media, to be precise).


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## Alondro (Feb 25, 2022)

Lou said:


> Nice find.
> 
> Funny because we would take metal sulfides and dissolve them in strong HCl and leave behind the PGM sulfides which are only soluble in aqua regia (or complexing/oxidizing media, to be precise).


So I can test this for PGMs with aqua regia? Or should I try powdering and roasting a small sample too?


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## Lou (Feb 25, 2022)

If it were me, I’d just send it out. Sulfides are dangerous if things aren’t done right.


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## RogueGeochemist (Feb 25, 2022)

Alondro said:


> Here are some pics of very dense, VERY hard sulfide nodules I found protruding from several layers of ancient shale in Northeastern PA while on a hike. Many come loose during weathering of the shale and can be pulled straight out. I found others in the adjacent stream bed where they collect in deeper nooks, as they are far denser than the surrounding rock. The SG I've gotten for several is between 5 and 5.5 g/cm3, which seems quite high for rock, and leads me to conclude they must be nearly pure, highly compressed metal sulfide.
> 
> They're extremely hard, as mentioned. It took quite a bit of beating with a rock hammer on solid concrete to break them open. In the pics, you can see streaks of iron pyrite within the mineral.
> 
> ...





Alondro said:


> Here are some pics of very dense, VERY hard sulfide nodules I found protruding from several layers of ancient shale in Northeastern PA while on a hike. Many come loose during weathering of the shale and can be pulled straight out. I found others in the adjacent stream bed where they collect in deeper nooks, as they are far denser than the surrounding rock. The SG I've gotten for several is between 5 and 5.5 g/cm3, which seems quite high for rock, and leads me to conclude they must be nearly pure, highly compressed metal sulfide.
> 
> They're extremely hard, as mentioned. It took quite a bit of beating with a rock hammer on solid concrete to break them open. In the pics, you can see streaks of iron pyrite within the mineral.
> 
> ...


I suspect these are manganese nodules similar if not identical to manganese nodules on the ocean floor. If so they are Mn-oxide not sulphide.


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## Alondro (Feb 26, 2022)

RogueGeochemist said:


> I suspect these are manganese nodules similar if not identical to manganese nodules on the ocean floor. If so they are Mn-oxide not sulphide.


That's what I initially thought until I broke them open and found clear streaks of iron pyrite through them. That couldn't form in the same place as manganese oxide. That, and the geologic history of the area (there are volcanic remnants just to the north and east of there in NJ) made me think of fragments of ancient marine vent towers worn down and buried in the seafloor sediments, which were then uplifted. 

To confirm, I'll heat a small powdered sample. If it gives off SO2, that'll clinch it.


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## PeterM (Feb 26, 2022)

Alondro said:


> Here are some pics of very dense, VERY hard sulfide nodules I found protruding from several layers of ancient shale in Northeastern PA while on a hike. Many come loose during weathering of the shale and can be pulled straight out. I found others in the adjacent stream bed where they collect in deeper nooks, as they are far denser than the surrounding rock. The SG I've gotten for several is between 5 and 5.5 g/cm3, which seems quite high for rock, and leads me to conclude they must be nearly pure, highly compressed metal sulfide.
> 
> They're extremely hard, as mentioned. It took quite a bit of beating with a rock hammer on solid concrete to break them open. In the pics, you can see streaks of iron pyrite within the mineral.
> 
> ...





Alondro said:


> Here are some pics of very dense, VERY hard sulfide nodules I found protruding from several layers of ancient shale in Northeastern PA while on a hike. Many come loose during weathering of the shale and can be pulled straight out. I found others in the adjacent stream bed where they collect in deeper nooks, as they are far denser than the surrounding rock. The SG I've gotten for several is between 5 and 5.5 g/cm3, which seems quite high for rock, and leads me to conclude they must be nearly pure, highly compressed metal sulfide.
> 
> They're extremely hard, as mentioned. It took quite a bit of beating with a rock hammer on solid concrete to break them open. In the pics, you can see streaks of iron pyrite within the mineral.
> 
> ...


I have assayed material like that to which contained gold in unbelievable proportions. Even coal can and will contain gold under certain conditions. see that video links. There is very little about the Genesis of Gold on the internet, though I have researched it for over 40+ years. In my opinion, Nature makes gold when Sulfur, Carbon and Iron are met under the proper conditions, but that's for a discussion some other day and not on this forum.
Respectfully,
PM
CRYSTALS OF GOLD ON THE COAL

Gold from Ash...


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## Alondro (Feb 26, 2022)

PeterM said:


> I have assayed material like that to which contained gold in unbelievable proportions. Even coal can and will contain gold under certain conditions. see that video links. There is very little about the Genesis of Gold on the internet, though I have researched it for over 40+ years. In my opinion, Nature makes gold when Sulfur, Carbon and Iron are met under the proper conditions, but that's for a discussion some other day and not on this forum.
> Respectfully,
> PM
> CRYSTALS OF GOLD ON THE COAL
> ...



I've been finding some vids that show some dense sulfide ores contain incredible amount of PMs... and some contain none!

I'll just have to do some tests on a few small ground up samples and see if anything shows up. A teaspoon's worth of powder from the 3 largest nodules should be enough to do a basic chemical assay.


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## PeterM (Feb 26, 2022)

Alondro said:


> I've been finding some vids that show some dense sulfide ores contain incredible amount of PMs... and some contain none!
> 
> I'll just have to do some tests on a few small ground up samples and see if anything shows up. A teaspoon's worth of powder from the 3 largest nodules should be enough to do a basic chemical assay.


I use and old instrument that I use as a tracking device. When I want to test for gold I grind up a sample then expose it to the heat and the machine does the rest. If I get an indication, then I would subject the ore to a series of chemical pre-treatments which now can break down the complexes that nature makes and then is the basis for a Flow Sheet for the ore to process. It sounds complicated but after prospecting and development of 40+ years there is a method that is sound and a path to follow that repeats itself.
Good Luck
PM


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## Platdigger (Feb 27, 2022)

Hey Peter, Joseph Cummins, I used to chat with him quite a bit, he still kikin?
BTW I have one of those Vreelands.


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## PeterM (Feb 27, 2022)

Plattdigger, I recently have emailed him, with no response..? Hum? I will rewrite him, maybe he didn't see my email? I don't like the thought of him not being around as I will be a young 72 next week myself. Joseph was truly a Grandaddy on the Vreeland Spectroscope. When I first started out in prospecting in my early 20's most of the mentors I had(and they were old jakes already) used a Spectroscope of sorts in their toolkit. Pictured in images 007 is my personal unit we
here I added a handle be left handed. Nice to hear from you Platdigger....


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## BlackLabel (Feb 27, 2022)

Forget about the first video (Crystals of gold on the coal).
First, I viewed it in the browser and didn't see, who made it.
I wondered about the look of his gold in the vial. These pieces don't look like nuggets nor molten beads (except the smallest at 8:05). These are gold plated or painted pebbles.
Maximov Ro is well known for his fake videos. He digs out huge nuggets (a couple hundered grams each) just by scratching in the ground a litte bit. I'm sad about every click he gains with his fake-click-bait-bullshit.


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## Alondro (Feb 27, 2022)

PeterM said:


> I use and old instrument that I use as a tracking device. When I want to test for gold I grind up a sample then expose it to the heat and the machine does the rest. If I get an indication, then I would subject the ore to a series of chemical pre-treatments which now can break down the complexes that nature makes and then is the basis for a Flow Sheet for the ore to process. It sounds complicated but after prospecting and development of 40+ years there is a method that is sound and a path to follow that repeats itself.
> Good Luck
> PM


Oh wow, one of those old specs. We had one in the college chemistry lab back in the 1990s.


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## Alondro (Feb 27, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> Forget about the first video (Crystals of gold on the coal).
> First, I viewed it in the browser and didn't see, who made it.
> I wondered about the look of his gold in the vial. These pieces don't look like nuggets nor molten beads (except the smallest at 8:05). These are gold plated or painted pebbles.
> Maximov Ro is well known for his fake videos. He digs out huge nuggets (a couple hundered grams each) just by scratching in the ground a litte bit. I'm sad about every click he gains with his fake-click-bait-bullshit.


Alondro scratches the ground in his backyard, "OH WOW! I FOUND A HUGE NUGGET!" Pulls out lump of 'gold' the size of a semi truck.

No one believes it, because New Jersey. XD


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## PeterM (Feb 27, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> Forget about the first video (Crystals of gold on the coal).
> First, I viewed it in the browser and didn't see, who made it.
> I wondered about the look of his gold in the vial. These pieces don't look like nuggets nor molten beads (except the smallest at 8:05). These are gold plated or painted pebbles.
> Maximov Ro is well known for his fake videos. He digs out huge nuggets (a couple hundered grams each) just by scratching in the ground a litte bit. I'm sad about every click he gains with his fake-click-bait-bullshit.


I agree there is so skepticism on that author.


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## PeterM (Feb 27, 2022)

Alondro said:


> Oh wow, one of those old specs. We had one in the college chemistry lab back in the 1990s.


Well Alondro, they still work today. There can't be too many left out there that are operational but mine is and I baby it. Anything new with not be as good, as inexpensive, and as reliable as what I have. Again, I use it as a tracking device, it gives me the direction to follow to make Flow Sheet Discovery to break an ore. Gold will be $3K per ounce Bank of America say's in the near future, much discussion on Kitco as well on the subject.


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## slsmp40 (Jun 24, 2022)

PeterM said:


> I use and old instrument that I use as a tracking device. When I want to test for gold I grind up a sample then expose it to the heat and the machine does the rest. If I get an indication, then I would subject the ore to a series of chemical pre-treatments which now can break down the complexes that nature makes and then is the basis for a Flow Sheet for the ore to process. It sounds complicated but after prospecting and development of 40+ years there is a method that is sound and a path to follow that repeats itself.
> Good Luck
> PM


You know they still make those vreeland specs. About 10k the last i had through. Probably sounds expensive until you look at other analyzers and they cost 10x as much. 
That is a flying by the seat of your pants machine every way about it.


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## PeterM (Jun 24, 2022)

slsmp40 said:


> You know they still make those vreeland specs. About 10k the last i had through. Probably sounds expensive until you look at other analyzers and they cost 10x as much.
> That is a flying by the seat of your pants machine every way about it.


Very well could be, but fortunes have been discovered on that (<$10K instrument and probably <$3K if found used) then any other device I know of because it's portable, quick and easy. Pictured is my own Vreeland.


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## slsmp40 (Jun 25, 2022)

PeterM said:


> Very well could be, but fortunes have been discovered on that (<$10K instrument and probably <$3K if found used) then any other device I know of because it's portable, quick and easy. Pictured is my own Vreeland.


They are loved machines, I don’t think I have seen any used for sale in a long time. In an industry that makes a machine for average 5-10 years and then most are total paperweights at 25 years the vreeland just keeps churning out useful data. They are truly the top of their little analytical mountain.


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