# question about poorman's AR



## Gold Trail (Mar 22, 2009)

I have been lurking around here for a while. And like most newbies to this I have screwed up my share of product. I have had EXCELENT results with the AP methods on fingers, thanks to LaserSteve's website. THANK YOU for the great information. since the AR "incident" as I'll refer to it, I think I'll be avoiding it all together. I was reading Steves post on the Poor Man's AR (seems a little more controled) and have a question or two, i was unable to answer searching the site, which i may add is fantastic. Question one: what should be a set minimum weight of CPU's for this method? Question Two: will this method work on pins? or are they better off in the crock pot? and again a practiced minimum weight? THANK YOU in advance Ryan


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## lazersteve (Mar 22, 2009)

Ryan,

I would suggest a very small sample run to get the hang of the reaction. 5-10 chips will give you an idea of what to expect and a visible yield of gold after melting.

Once you are familiar with the reaction scale up to where you are comfortable. Remember as you increase the batch size the fumes and foaming will increase proportionally. Be very cautious as foam overs occur easily when adding sodium nitrate to hot acid mixtures. 

The additions of solid sodium nitrate should be very small and staged to be sure the reaction has subsided before adding more. Too much, too fast will result in a volcano of toxic gas and liquid. Be sure you have a catch dish (white corning ware baking dish) under the beaker that is large enough to catch the entire volume of any over flows. If the reaction gets too vigorous or begins foaming profusely pull the watch glass cover off the top of the beaker to prevent the eruption from squirting out in the direction of the pouring lip of the beaker.

Proper fume ventilation is a must when working with this method.

Be safe.

Steve


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## Sodbuster (Mar 22, 2009)

Hi guys :
I find those glass trays out of the bottom of an old microwave oven make good catch trays. I use a small round one for catching drips on the bench when filling or pouring between beakers. I hate those drips on my plate steel benchtop. The larg square ones mite even be big enough to to sit a hotplate in and cacth some fomeovers. Thay wont be deep enough for a large spill though if something was to break. When the 12" round one gets in the way on the bench I flip it over and lay it on top of my 5 gallon wash bucket, perfict fit and it keeps those moths outta my wash bucket. Goodwill or Salvaition Army Store always seem to have an abundance of various sizes too.
Just rambeling --------Ray


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## Gold Trail (Mar 23, 2009)

thank you for your reply , Steve. the reason i asked, was that as, Hoke sugested , doing small scale experiments to famerialize your self with the procedures. I have done many "experiments" so to speak,. The yeild were low if none, i believe due to the "small scale". Thats why i wondering about minimun cpu chips to try to process.

SodBuster, your absolutly right about the pan. i was atempting to recover some sludge from fail experiments, when learn glass measuring cups aren't suited for the hotplate. and poof all over the yard it went! As my gold specks and flakes glistened in the sun shine!

Thanks Again everyone for a great forum

Ryan


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## Anonymous (Mar 23, 2009)

try and keep all solder out, I melted the solder on pins and such to remove the pins from the boards works well but the solder causes 2 hard to deal with precipates, a grayish insuluable fluffy stuff, and neat little crystals that are somewhat easier to deal with because they for the most part dissolve in HCL.

In the end, I was using the solution diluted and using a pretreatment of copper sulfate to remove metals lower than copper this will remove troublesome stuff and leave copper in it place.

Jim


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## Sodbuster (Mar 23, 2009)

Gold Trail:
Sorry to hear about your losses in the grass. You'll be thinking about that every time you mow that spot. Have you considered panning for gold in your own back yard? Be shure and show the neighbors your results and watch um go dig up thair yards. I would have a blast with that one.
Silly me ---- Ray


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## semi-lucid (Mar 27, 2009)

*Question Two: will this method work on pins? or are they better off in the crock pot?*

Is "crock pot" a reference to the AP method?


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## Gold Trail (Mar 27, 2009)

if i understand correctly, from researching this site, some people use a crock pot to heat hcl at a low temp to disolve the base metals in the pins faster. how ever, i was wondering if poor mans AR good for pins. I have had a one pound batch in AP for over a week now with little progress. (the pins did have a SS colar on them)


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## Platdigger (Mar 27, 2009)

Try battery acid and strong (I use 27.5%) hydrogen peroxide for the stainless.
Randy


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## Harold_V (Mar 28, 2009)

Gold Trail said:


> i was wondering if poor mans AR good for pins.


It is safe to say, regardless of the nature of AR----it isn't suited to running pins, at least those that are plated on copper alloys. 

It makes no sense to dissolve gold when there is an abundance of base metal present, with few exceptions. It may be a requirement when processing some of the strange ferrous alloys, but even then, if the gold can be stripped, or the base metal eliminated before any attempt at dissolving gold, you are far better served. 

It's a damned shame that the AR process was ever suggested as a way to process plated items. It will take years to get people to understand how stupid that idea is. 

Harold


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## Oz (Mar 28, 2009)

Gold Trail,

Keep Stainless Steel and iron out of AP, it defeats the copper chloride by cementation. It is the copper in solution that does the work in AP. Go to Steve’s website for greater detail on how AP works.


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## wop1969 (Mar 28, 2009)

Oz said:


> Gold Trail,
> 
> Keep Stainless Steel and iron out of AP, it defeats the copper chloride by cementation. It is the copper in solution that does the work in AP. Go to Steve’s website for greater detail on how AP works.



I watched the video a few times and dont recall steve talking about what you mentioned, can anyone go into detail on this?


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## Oz (Mar 28, 2009)

Sure I can, please read in detail what he has provided for free on his website (read the pdf) to fully understand how AP works. Understanding the electromotive series of metals and combining it with what you learn about AP reading the PDF will give great insights as to why Fe would cause problems. If you still have questions he will probably answer them.

There is no way anyone can expect Steve to be all inclusive as to what you may choose to put in AP. As an example I do not recall him mentioning the hazards of a gold complex in a uranium ore and he probably never will. 

To cover all the bases in refining requires that you pay someone as a consultant on retainer or by the hour so that if you have a question about something that does not go exactly as expected you can ask them to fix it. I am not trying to be harsh but Steve gives great information on here for free at great cost of his time. In addition he gives fantastic information that can be purchased (with live support) at less than I personally would ever consider profitable.


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## wop1969 (Mar 28, 2009)

Oz said:


> (read the pdf)



Oz, I have been reading till my head is spinning :? 
but in that I have not seen a PDF on his site about the Ap Process, can you post a link to the PDF in question? I would have read that first if i seen it.


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## Oz (Mar 28, 2009)

Here it is http://www.goldrecovery.us/goldrecovery/documents/CuCl.pdf in case that does not work because of needing to sign in at his website the PDF is titled “CuCl2 as an Etchant”. For the record I do not remember it mentioning Fe. This is why I suggested you combine what this document explains with the electromotive series of metals. 

You mention reading until your head is spinning. Might I suggest that you focus on one aspect of refining at a time? Reading your posts I appreciate your enthusiasm and this is a fantastic site but there is no possibility that I could learn all the aspects of refining at once that you are attempting. Then again I am not the sharpest pencil in the box, but my lead is not broke either. 

If you overload yourself all the finer points could be missed. In refining it is the finer points that make the difference.


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## Platdigger (Mar 28, 2009)

semi-lucid wrote:

Is "crock pot" a reference to the AP method?[/quote]

The "crockpot" method usually refered to here, is just hcl (muratic) heated in a crockpot.


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## wop1969 (Mar 28, 2009)

Duely noted.

I wont deny being a gluten for self induced abuse 

Also, I Found the PDF, Tnx


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## Oz (Mar 28, 2009)

If you like self imposed abuse I can understand it to a degree. I do my best work under duress as I become exceedingly focused. But in refining if you miss a fine point it can kill you, especially with ores. 

Call me overcautious but I am constantly amazed at the indifference given to such supposedly safe electronic scrap in regards to beryllium copper and lithium to name 2. Please look up the possible hazards as there are hundreds of fingers containing beryllium on one motherboard. 

I do not mind making money but I intend on living long enough to enjoy spending it. 

There are more important things than iron in your AP.


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## wop1969 (Mar 28, 2009)

I did read about that in another post and from that I decided that Iwould not bother with the slot pins on the MB for now or mabey forever?


does the CPU socket pins have any beryllium in them?


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## Oz (Mar 28, 2009)

I cannot say with certainty as to all cpu sockets, but in general terms any motherboard connection that requires spring tension for electrical contact has a very high probability of containing beryllium copper. it is the dust that I worry about the most as these guys tear boards apart.


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## wop1969 (Mar 28, 2009)

so is it semi safe to revers plate the pins?

but not safe to get them off the board?

if removal is the issue, would it be safe to just desolder themfor removal?


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## Oz (Mar 28, 2009)

I am not a chemist so I would hesitate to give opinions on reactions in solution. I can say with authority that any removal of parts from a motherboard should include the use of a particulate mask at the minimum. It may not be the dust you create, it could also be what is laying there ready to be stirred up from the lifetime of the board itself. 

Have you looked up the hazards?


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## Gold Trail (Mar 28, 2009)

Oz. there some possible hazards in removing parts from the pc boards. 

Perhaps i am spoiled, owning a computer de-Manufacturing company. I have access to more gold than i could ever refine, nor intend to refine. I dont remove ANYTHING soldered to the PCB except cutting the fingers off of edge cards , selectivly. Even at that, i stay an hour or two once a week after the employees have left and dig around in the gaylord boxes. Most of the PC scrap is "flash Plated" making it not even worth while to look twice at. besides, what we get wholesale for memory, processor chips and mother boards, even as a hobby, i am not convinced in home gold refining on a hobby level is even worth it.

The only pins i mess with are high end milspec pins from DOD scrap we process.

Ryan


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## wop1969 (Mar 28, 2009)

Gold Trail said:


> Oz. there some possible hazards in removing parts from the pc boards.
> 
> Perhaps i am spoiled, owning a computer de-Manufacturing company. I have access to more gold than i could ever refine, nor intend to refine. I dont remove ANYTHING soldered to the PCB except cutting the fingers off of edge cards , selectivly. Even at that, i stay an hour or two once a week after the employees have left and dig around in the gaylord boxes. Most of the PC scrap is "flash Plated" making it not even worth while to look twice at. besides, what we get wholesale for memory, processor chips and mother boards, even as a hobby, i am not convinced in home gold refining on a hobby level is even worth it.
> 
> ...



So mabey we should all just sell the MB's  for good reason


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