# palladium



## Bobo (May 27, 2016)

How to recover palladium from ceramic varistors??? I need all details. Anyone????


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## nickvc (May 27, 2016)

Welcome to the forum.
Before you get answers I think it might pay you to explain what experience you have in recovery and refinement of precious metals. If you obviously know your stuff then we can help, if you don't then you need to study and read here on the forum so you understand the answers. 
We rarely have time for a step by step instruction so it's a case of help yourself and we will fill in any questions or process you get stuck on.


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## patnor1011 (May 27, 2016)

There is no palladium in ceramic varistors.


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## auratus72 (May 27, 2016)

Hi, most multilayer ceramic SMD (surface mount device) varistors have silver palladium internal electrodes but SMD M.O.V. (metal oxide varistor) do not have palladium but some silver.


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## kurtak (May 27, 2016)

Ball mill them & then smelt them - you need a flux of borax/soda ash/cryolite (the cryolite dissolves the crushed ceramic so it will slag off) you will need to add silver or copper to the smelt as a collector metal because other wise there is not enough silver & palladium by its self to get a good separation of the metal & slag when you pour the smelt to the cone mold

You can then part the metals - or - sell it as alloyed dore metal

Kurt


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## Anonymous (May 27, 2016)

patnor1011 said:


> There is no palladium in ceramic varistors.



That's not 100 percent true old friend. It depends upon the type.

Jon


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## patnor1011 (May 28, 2016)

I thought varistors are different from capacitors. Varistors are mage with zinc oxide granules.


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## solar_plasma (May 28, 2016)

multilayer chip varistor

I just hope they do not yield that much. I left them all on the boards that I gave to the scrapyard... :roll:


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## Anonymous (May 28, 2016)

On telecoms boards they can be a pretty good yield. Sorry Bjorn I know that's not the answer you were looking for. You're also looking at Platinum as well. 

Jon

Edit for additional info.


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## justinhcase (May 28, 2016)

If it is a high yield board with lot's of gold plating and you are going to process it your self,stripping off the any thing you think might have a P.G.M. and separating them into Pt ,Ta, and Pd content is very useful.
Not because it gives a good return,but because it ,makes refining your Au easier and saves you trying to separate P.G.M.'s later which can be a pain.
Work intensive and low return so best left for your board smelter unless they get in your way.better hourly rate in MacDonald than picking them off.


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## Anonymous (May 28, 2016)

I've learned in my time on the board that some guys literally do it for the fun and hobby. As such even though I might disagree, they actually enjoy spending hours taking stuff from boards and as such it's a case of each to their own. You'd actually be quite surprised if you saw the yields from some of those chips though and no smelter is going to take less than tonnes of them. If a "smelter" takes a tonne of those boards then you can rest assured that they are a packager not a smelter. Unless of course you have terms with a high level refiner who will take small parcels at no penalty which is a rare arrangement to have.


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## justinhcase (May 28, 2016)

If you shop around you can find some quite reasonable operators ,the larger they are the more open to a civil negotiation they are. 
Happy relationships that last for decades are the most profitable as conflict is the enemy of profitable progress .
A good working partner will not expect you to leave chunks of easily claimed gold for them ,like wise Only PCB's with obvious value should be included in the lot's you send them, life is a two way street.
If it is not profitable for you to recover why not leave it for your working partner.
They get payed by the complete return on the smelted lot as they add your tun to ten of there own. 
If you are not dealing with some one who is sending lot for smelting may be you should be.


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## Anonymous (May 28, 2016)

justinhcase said:


> If you are not dealing with some one who is sending lot for smelting may be you should be.



That was really the message in my previous post Justin, you mentioned dealing with board smelters however you really meant dealing with packaging companies. I'm not looking to have any angst over this however it's two separate things. The yields from each option are very very different.


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## modtheworld44 (May 28, 2016)

spaceships said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > If you are not dealing with some one who is sending lot for smelting may be you should be.
> ...



spaceships

Your right on the gold on that one,and that's why I am my own end man refiner.



modtheworld44


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## Bobo (May 29, 2016)

Electrodes in CV are made from palladium. I am sure. Metalization on both sides are combination of silver and platinum. I try to melt it with HCl and nitrat acid. I got a mud. But whats next??? Melting on high temperatures?? To get clean palladium from that mud.


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## justinhcase (May 29, 2016)

Presumably, it depends on what your objective is.
I would love to develop to the point of accurately being able to assay sea water.it will never pay but the technical disciple and ability would be a thing I would feel proud to have achieved.
I find that I do not make enough profit from processing anything under 2p.p.t. Au(parts per thousand gold) if I have to buy the material.
I do save up stock as low as 1p.p.t Au but I do not process it yet as it would only waste my time to do so.
Anything under that is Umicore Territory for when it requires continuous furnace running years around.
I have not seen any other system that offers such a good rate on all elements with a very dependable accountancy system.
I can not see a point in trying to compete and only know of operations in Switzerland and Denmark similar in scope and efficiency.
Which is why they have such a good hold on the market.
Best to find someone who will let you ship a good load and pay you on results rather than have an operator try and value a small lot by eye and low ball you.
when someone values a lot by eye without it being processed they have to pay you less than the lowest possible return,or they would risk overpaying for some lots.
That way they know no matter what they will be in profit and with luck they will make a good deal more than that. 
Most of the electronic waste company's I have look at charge their clients in the first place so are in profit before any recycling anyway.
Which is why I stay out of that side of the trade as much as I can,what little I do help transport is as a service to one client,not a bad bonus tho.every little helps


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## justinhcase (May 29, 2016)

Bobo said:


> Electrodes in CV are made from palladium. I am sure. Metalization on both sides are combination of silver and platinum. . I got a mud. But whats next??? Melting on high temperatures?? To get clean palladium from that mud.


the most reliable method utilises a controlled atmosphere in a tube furnace and a vacuum casting set up..
P.G.M.'s are quite demanding to refine which is why they where not used commercially until after the 1940's.
I recover most of my Pd from my silver cell using D.M.G.
I have only just bought a tube furnace and have yet to have a working tube made.
There are way's of wet processing but none really produce an end product which would stand up to proper scrutiny.
In the U.K. unless it is of an observable high grade you will be lucky to get seventy present of spot.
Johnson Matthey has most of the trade and make the most of there monopoly.
You have a good number of years to look at the process.
I am not sure what you meant by "I try to melt it with HCl and nitrat acid".
but I would say you lack understanding of the most basic concepts from that statement.
Platinum group metals are the most advanced processes in refining so please try to walk before you organise a moon landing.
Regards
Justin


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