# The Best Source of Scrap



## goldsilverpro

*Manufacturing Scrap*

There are two main sources of scrap. I'm speaking primarily of electronic scrap, but some other types can fall into the category.

First, there is the type that you're all familiar with. This is scrap mainly generated from equipment that is no longer used: computers, auto parts, etc. For the sake of this discussion, let's call it Used Scrap.

The second type is more hidden to you. This is scrap that comes from the manufacturers of these items. Let's call this Mfgr. Scrap.

There used to be an axiom that, of all the gold purchased by electronic manufacturers, to make their parts, only 60% of it went out the door. The other 40% ended up as scrap - rejects, trim, etc. I have no reason to doubt that these numbers still hold true today. I still have a flow chart I made, some 25 years ago, that shows the 15-20 basic categories of scrap that they generate. There's surely a lot more Mfgr. Scrap than there is Used Scrap.

Where does this scrap go? Mainly to medium and large refineries. Local scrap metal dealers get their fair share. Some is landfilled and lost. Some is stolen by employees.

The beauty of the Mfgr. Scrap is in it's form and it's volume. Take pins, for example. Instead of getting pins, here and there, off of used boards, a manufacturer might generate 6 drums of nothing but gold plated pins in a month. That's quite a sight, especially if you dump them out to make sure you're not paying $8 a pound for rainwater. Instead of having to trim silver off of relays from Used Scrap, a contact point manufacturer may generate several buckets of nothing but loose silver/gold/Pt points.

Most Mfgr. Scrap is simpler and more concentrated. Instead of stuffed boards, they have the individual components.

To the amateur, the volume of scrap generated by manufacturers can be overwhelming. Several years ago, I visited 4 small circuit board manufacturers in a very small city in Missouri. One of them had 10 pallet size Gaylord boxes, full of decent circuit board trim. Each piece had some gold on it. 

Electronic manufacturers are everywhere. Often, small towns donate land to manufacturers so they will locate there.

Most refiners don't mess with Used Scrap unless the stuff comes to them prepared. They certainly don't hustle Used Scrap. They go for the Mfgr. Scrap, the easy, huge volume stuff.

Manufacturers aren't in the scrap business. They're in the manufacturing business. Scrap takes up space and they like to get rid of it. Most, especially the smaller companies, are very friendly and will talk to any buyer that seems serious. In small towns, especially, the local scrap metal dealers get the stuff. They often pay one flat low price for everything, no matter how many types are represented. The PM scrap is gravy. In the old days, there was a lot of hanky-panky by the employees that managed the scrap, especially in the huge companies. I imagine some of that still goes on.

One type of scrap that the manufacturers get real serious about is scrap that contains toxic materials, such as lead solder or cadmium in points. Since the EPA set up the "cradle to grave" responsibility act, manufacturers watch this scrap real close. They inspect the facilities they sell this stuff to. Also, some scrap parts are company secrets and some they don't want getting on the second hand market. For this type scrap, the buyer has to sign a "certificate of destruction" and they will inspect his facilities. Sometimes, they sign contracts (usually 1 year) with a refiner. Other than these exceptions, most all scrap is up for grabs.

Most manufacturers send their stuff to refiners. They have to wait for their money and they all know the refiner's reputation for stealing. I've always thought that many would rather sell the stuff outright and avoid the hassle.

Getting scrap from manufacturers isn't for the small thinker. You have to think big quantities and get all your ducks in a row. You have to study the subject, know something about sampling and assaying, and know your scrap.

I've only touched the surface of this lucrative subject and, if there is interest, I'll write more later. Much of my 40 years experience is in dealing with electronics manufacturers, although I haven't done it much in the last 10 years. I imagine everything is still about the same.


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## catfish

Goldsilverpro

This post was very informative and now after reading it, I may want to rethink my present hobbie of just buying scrap karat gold. Funny you mentioned about the large circuit board manufactors in getting rid of thier scrap. I worked for Ma Bell (AT&T) for 30 years in the microwave radio, Electronic switching systems and just about every end of the technical part of the business. I have thrown away a fortune in gold plated items such as the famous gold triode microwave tube 416a, not to mention hundreds of thousand circuit boards that had gold plated pins and chips. Too expensive to return to Western electric and repair.

This kind of posts, not only are very interesting reading, but offers a great insight for us amatuers in the gold recycling business. Too often we get tunnel vision when it comes to looking for gold scrap like consumer electronics (old CPU's) when we forget about the many tons of industrial scrap out there in never never land. Again thanks for the post and keep banging them out. We could all stand to refresh our understanding of paradigms.

catfish


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## lazersteve

I've got many pounds of manufacturers scrap. Everything from aerospace rejects to pounds of continuous gold plated wire still in spool form. I think it's the best scrap you can get. I've even recovered gold from about 20,000 reject crystals for oscillator circuits. They were 1/2" gold plated quartz disc. The laser industry puts out some decent gold plated scrap as well. I've even got flash left overs from gold plated ornament stamping machines isn't that great, but it is gold plated.

Great Post Chris!

Steve


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## Noxx

Good post ! Would you mind if I transfer it into the appropriate section ?


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## goldsilverpro

Noxx, that's great. You added the new sections. I didn't notice. Certainly you can move the thread.


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## goldsilverpro

Thanks, guys

Catfish.

Gold Microwave scrap is excellent

One tme I went to an AT&T facility in Seattle (I think). They had 750,000# of mostly gold bearing scrap they were selling on bid.


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## sandhog

Steve,

Is the ornament remnants from the guy in N.J. off of ebay. If so which way are you refining(recovering) it. I've tried A.R and acid peroxide but didn't try reverse electroplating. 

-Bill


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## lazersteve

Bill, 

I've had the ornament scrap a long time and can't recall if I got them from tiger007 or not, maybe I did. I've put them in the cell and used peroxide. They strip in no time flat. I've got 20# laying around because it' not worth the time to strip. The stuff is gold plated, but very disappointing. I don't think tiger007 supplied this stuff.

Steve


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## sandhog

Steve,

I have similar stuff then. I would agree pretty disappointing. Didn't pay much for it though. 

Thanks for the reply.

-Bill


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## bermudanibiru999

Microwave scrap? Telephone switching systems? Umm, can you guys post some pictures of this stuff? I see microwave trash and I run into telephone repairmen everyday on my route. :shock: I work for Fedex.


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## lazersteve

Bermuda Dave,

Here are some photos of the various stuff I have:

Communications Boards (From Central Offices and Cell Tower Cites)
Back:







Front:






And some of the parts that are used in communications circuits by Lucent Technologies:







Lastly,

Some RF fittings used in microwave communications systems:







The boards are not as great as they look, the plate is very thin. They sometimes still have some of the high grade parts pictured in the third photo on them. Everything else pictured here is high grade scrap in my book.

Steve


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## dwt9999

I am blown away at the sheer volume of information on this site.

I would like to know a little more about the mfg. scrap. When you talk with the company do you just offer to buy what they have in stock at the time, or do you try to set up a recuring purchase? 

I mean with the volumes possible, a hobbiest could be at it for years on one mfg. scrap pick-up.

Any more info on this could shed light on new doors for me and the others here I am sure.

Thanks for the WOW!

Lew


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## lazersteve

LEW,

All of the mfg scrap I've managed to get my hands on comes from individuals on the inside track. I've never dealt directly with a manufacturer on a one on one basis. I don't think I could keep up with them due to my relaxed mentality on the recovery/refining subject. I've currently got so much scrap on hand, I'll be at it for several years at my current pace. I don't look at gold recovery/refining as a job, I look at it as a great past time. This takes a lot of the competitive edge out of my purchasing and refining efforts. I like it this way. The techniques that I use are suited to my needs and that works for me. To each his own.
If you want to be a renowned refiner one day that's your business and more power to you. If you want to enjoy a fascinating hobby and end up with a pile of gold bars in your safety deposit box that's fine too. Follow you heart and have a good time doing it. Either way life is too short to waste it on anything you don't enjoy.

Steve


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## bermudanibiru999

lazersteve said:


> Lastly,
> 
> Some RF fittings used in microwave communications systems:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The boards are not as great as they look, the plate is very thin. They sometimes still have some of the high grade parts pictured in the third photo on them. Everything else pictured here is high grade scrap in my book.
> 
> Steve


When you say "microwave", are you referring to telephone electronics? Or the kind of microwaves I cook my TV dinners in? :shock:


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## lazersteve

Microwave communications as in cell towers and industrial lasers.


Steve


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## Anonymous

tremendous post, Goldsilverpro. thanks a lot for all the info


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## goldsilverpro

Thanks, MMN. Good to have another refiner on the forum.


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## aflacglobal

:!: :!: :!: Welcome aboard MetalsManNYC :!: :!: :!:


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## austexjwlry

I noticed silver bearing welding rods on ebay, so I googled them. There are many types available. If you had a welding shop , or manufacturer in your area using lots of them you might turn a profit off refining their nub ends!

Wayne


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## DarkspARCS

O how I miss living in California:

Rocketdyne Corp
TRW Componants
Teledyne Corp
Jet Populsion Laboraties
Boeing Aerospace
Grumman-Northrop Aerospace

the MANY subdivisions and contractors supporting these MAJOR government contractors, all with shops centrally located around the major player's industrial campuses...

All wrapped up nicely - literally ducks in a line - on land surrounding LAX.

Anyone here ever see what the electronics boards look like for missle guidance systems? Fighter jet H.U.D. systems? Actual satellite systems?

The trash dumpsters of these facilities - back around 1995 - were free and clear targets for escrappers... 8)


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## goldsilverpro

DarkspARCS said:


> O how I miss living in California:
> 
> Rocketdyne Corp
> TRW Componants
> Teledyne Corp
> Jet Populsion Laboraties
> Boeing Aerospace
> Grumman-Northrop Aerospace
> 
> the MANY subdivisions and contractors supporting these MAJOR government contractors, all with shops centrally located around the major player's industrial campuses...
> 
> All wrapped up nicely - literally ducks in a line - on land surrounding LAX.
> 
> Anyone here ever see what the electronics boards look like for missle guidance systems? Fighter jet H.U.D. systems? Actual satellite systems?
> 
> The trash dumpsters of these facilities - back around 1995 - were free and clear targets for escrappers... 8)



For 4 or 5 years, I worked directly across the street from Rocketdyne in Chatsworth. The company I worked for was the world's largest seller of PM plating solutions. When Rocketdyne was first working on the space shuttle, the plan was to coat the entire thing with thick plated layers of various PMs, with the outer layer being gold, due to it's high infra-red reflectivity. I spent a lot of time in meetings at Rocketdyne. Of course, they went with the cheaper tiles, which worked great when they didn't fall off.

This same company I worked for was also, at the time, the largest refiner W of the Mississippi. I spent much time in most of the companies you listed. Don't forget ITT Cannon.


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## gbaldwin75

wow, where can i find this? i live in mentor, ohio and i wouldnt even know what to look for. i rarely ever find towers that people want to get rid of here.


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## eesakiwi

The last time I was at the scrapmetal yard I noticed they were putting some scrapped brass/copper tube boilers into the containers.

They had cut thru the outer layer & then thru each end of the boilers inner tubes to break it up.
What I could see was, a brass end plate of the boiler, it was about 3 feet diameter & 2 inches thick with over 300 x 7/8 holes in it.
Theres about 300 peices of 7/8 dia copper tube welded into those holes, they were all cut short, about 6 inchs say,(by the cutting end of the cranes they have there).
To weld all of the tubes in there they must have used some sort of silver/copper solder/brazing filler rod.
Normally its 30% silver or more.
But, this brazing rod layer was about 3/8 inch thick over a 3 foot dia plate, actually two of them! (each end)

I don't know if they put all of that stuff in the same container & sell it as brass/copper with silver welding filler metal or not.
I think it'd go as 'Brass'.

Anybody ever scrapped something like that? Its a huge peice of metal to process & I wonder how much Gold is in that silver?
Since most old silver still contains a little gold.


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## Harold_V

eesakiwi said:


> Since most old silver still contains a little gold.


I'm not sure I agree. They've been parting silver electrolytically for a long time. Gold has always been valuable---they weren't about to leave any behind. 

If you have a source of information, I'd be interested in reading *anything* (that has credibility) that supports the notion that old silver contains gold. 

Harold


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## DarkspARCS

Harold is spot on... silver's purity, at least that which has been a product fom developed nations, has been refined to .999 purity for hundreds of years now. There, however, exists under developed nations who have produced aloidial silvers (such as Pahkistani and t.o.c. Mexican silvers) that contain values of other pm like gold and palladium. There's other silvers produced as such out there derived from dental alloys as well, lol... which contain mercury and lead.

They get out there past the refiner because they were crafted by individual hobbyists who's objects d' art became a sought after commodity. I even created a ring a long time ago that contained gold fillings, .925 silver, and platnum foil in an alloidial mix using the lost wax casting technique. The jeweler who I hired to set the center blue topaz, and two blue saphires and two diamonds asked me what was in my gold because it was the hardest he'd ever worked with. I told him platinum, he then grunted lol.


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## grimm123

man oh man do i feel terrible now, i used to work at a hobby industry company and i remember tossing out about 4-5 lbs of gold plated connector pins :shock: 
if i had known there were ways to process it out, i would have taken it all home  
they were rather large pins too, 2mm thick, 5mm wide and 15mm long! 
they had come from the factory that makes them and failed our QC checks so the maker was replacing them at no cost to us so we tossed all the reject pins and housings....that sucks thinking back that it could have been recovered.


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## mlgdave

ok, dumb question perhaps? I have access to a used mining supply yard, they literally have tons of equipment from ball mills to pumps, old crucibles, furnaces, leaching columns, carbon filters etc.

I know about ball mills already but I have only dealt with ball mills containing free milling gold and not sulphide type ores, what else should I hunt down in their yard? I would likely not buy any of the equipment only offer to clean it. I had a deal in place 2 years ago to clean the ball mills but now will look further into what im missing?

mlgdave


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## dtectr

if you find nearly workable ball/rod/? mills at killer prices - let us know!


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## mlgdave

I built myself a small ball mill/amalgum barrel for 120 bucks and have used it over and over and over with no problems! 
I bought a metal drum cement mixer, welded the seam from the inside and voila! 

I can take pictures after I pick it up later today (been lugging it around for 4 years, didnt know why until this week)

mlgdave


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## Barren Realms 007

mlgdave said:


> I built myself a small ball mill/amalgum barrel for 120 bucks and have used it over and over and over with no problems!
> I bought a metal drum cement mixer, welded the seam from the inside and voila!
> 
> I can take pictures after I pick it up later today (been lugging it around for 4 years, didnt know why until this week)
> 
> mlgdave



Pictures always help they can give some ideas on what one can do.


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