# PGM future market price



## kjavanb123 (Oct 5, 2011)

All,

Any speculation about the PGM future market prices?? Looking at the daily prices for 3 sisters Pt, Pd and Rh they litterly plungin. I seriously think someones just control the precious market prices it aint just an exchange.

Kevin


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## eeTHr (Oct 5, 2011)

Anything that can be boutht and sold on paper only, with leverage, is suseptable to some manipulation, limited by margin calls. But from what I have read, the big banks don't have margin calls to them, so they can run the prices anyhere they want.

They have already been caught doing this with gold, and especially silver when the big fluctuations occurred. Right now it looks like they want silver to be at 30, and gold at 1650.


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## kurt (Oct 6, 2011)

I recently heard that they have come up with a new alloy to use in place of Pt &/or Pd in making cats. If that is true it is going to have a big affect on demand for Pt & Pd (lower demand) which is going to affect value (lower price)

Kurt


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## kjavanb123 (Oct 6, 2011)

so i guess catalytic converter business is going down with this new market too. ouch


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## Lino1406 (Oct 7, 2011)

Do not need cats


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## patnor1011 (Oct 13, 2011)

Lino1406 said:


> Do not need cats



Spot on. You dont need cat on electric car. Go for lithium that will be commodity of tomorrow.


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## Palladium (Oct 14, 2011)

If i was a betting man i would go with palladium for a 20 year investment. Think eco friendly.
Think hydrogen fuel cell.


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## Lino1406 (Oct 14, 2011)

Agreed. However...you should be aware that
the wet dream of fuel cell developers is finding
cheap alternatives to palladium and platinum,
so... 20years?


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## kjavanb123 (Oct 17, 2011)

All,


Thanks for your feedback. I have this delimma to deal with right now, so your quick opinion on this would be apperciated. Due to new sanction on Iran banks, the Japanese firm which we suppose to ship the catalytic converters to can not wire the money to our banks. I want to suggest to send us Pt or Au bars instead of money. which one should we accept once it is approved by the Japanese regulations?

Thanks
Kev


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## nickvc (Oct 17, 2011)

Well gold is readily acceptable worldwide at a known price while platinum might cause more issues to sell. This could be complicated if you can find an end buyer who wants platinum you might get better prices for it but in general I'd go for the gold option due to it's easy trade status, don't forget brokerage charges as this will come off your part.


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## bubba (Oct 25, 2011)

kurt said:


> I recently heard that they have come up with a new alloy to use in place of Pt &/or Pd in making cats. If that is true it is going to have a big affect on demand for Pt & Pd (lower demand) which is going to affect value (lower price)
> 
> Kurt



If you have been around converters as long as I have, you seen this "breakthrough" technology make news many times. Before the recession hit, the auto makers would book metal a year in advance, usually around september. Someone got smart and realized that if they released some obscure project they they had been researching on platinum substitution, that showed the "potential" for silver, nickel, copper, gold or some other metal to take the place of pgm's, they could manipulate a 5-10% drop in the price within a couple of days. That would give them enough time to go out long on their metal contracts at a reduced price
Probably the first time I heard of substitution, it was in the late nineties. Five to ten years ago, it was as though the car makers were taking turns. One year Ford would come out with their "research" the next year Nissan, the next year Honda.
We will have pgm's in catalytics, along with internal combustion engines for many,many more years.


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## Lou (Oct 25, 2011)

Physics.


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## kurt (Oct 28, 2011)

bubba said:


> kurt said:
> 
> 
> > I recently heard that they have come up with a new alloy to use in place of Pt &/or Pd in making cats. If that is true it is going to have a big affect on demand for Pt & Pd (lower demand) which is going to affect value (lower price)
> ...



Interesting (but not surprising) It was my brother that told me about this - he said he read it in a science mag & nickle was suposed to be part of the alloy - he couldn't remember the other metals in the alloy - just that it was suposed to do away with the need for PGMs in cats

Kurt


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## philddreamer (Oct 28, 2011)

Kurt wrote:
"I recently heard that they have come up with a new alloy to use in place of Pt &/or Pd in making cats. If that is true it is going to have a big affect on demand for Pt & Pd (lower demand) which is going to affect value (lower price)"

Taking a look @ the prices @ the bottom of this page can already be showing that to be so... :roll:


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## bubba (Oct 28, 2011)

philddreamer said:


> Kurt wrote:
> "I recently heard that they have come up with a new alloy to use in place of Pt &/or Pd in making cats. If that is true it is going to have a big affect on demand for Pt & Pd (lower demand) which is going to affect value (lower price)"
> 
> Taking a look @ the prices @ the bottom of this page can already be showing that to be so... :roll:


 
Really?......that's an interesting observation. From 1995 on through about 1999, prices on catalytic converters did not move........for like 4 years! I was paying $24 for Large GM. Thats $24. For four years straight.
Fast forward 10 years. Now we have to make new price sheets almost every week.......and now those Large GM are $120.00. sound like its something that is going away?
Platinum is an element that can change the physical properties of something without being changed itself, not something easily duplicated. The downfall to all of the substitutions they have tried, is that they get dirty, even palladium gets dirty, when compared to platinum. Thats why you don't see much palladium in diesel converters.


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## Joeforbes (Nov 15, 2011)

kurt said:


> bubba said:
> 
> 
> > kurt said:
> ...



I read about nickle alloy catalysts for automobiles, but the alloy contained a considerable amount of Rh. Enough to make it not cost effective to replace the Pt and Pd with Ni at least.


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