# Gold not dropping with smb



## travis86 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ive processed a small batch of fingers, pins, 1 cell phone board using the AP method and worked pretty well my first time. I added just shy of 2 grams of Bondies Stump-Out which is basicly SMB to my HCl-Cl solution and nothings happening. Im pretty sure I added a bit too much bleach and found on the forums to dilute my solution with water or heating it so the extra chlorine comes out of the solution<---(Mentioned by LAzerSteve so im going to go with this approach) What I cant figure out is do I let it boil on my hot plate or simmer? Would I need to add more smb to the mix after?


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## glorycloud (Oct 7, 2011)

If it is a small batch of fingers, you may not have much gold to drop.
Let it sit over night and see if you have a dusting of powder on
the bottom of your container.


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## travis86 (Oct 7, 2011)

I know it takes awhile for it to drop but I figured I would have seen a little dust or something within 4 hours. But im pretty sure I added to much bleach which wouldn't help out.


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## Claudie (Oct 7, 2011)

It's a good idea to let the solution sit for 24 hrs so the Chlorine can evaporate off. Then dilute it with 3 parts clean water, not tap water as most tap water has Chlorine in it. Then mix in an equal amount of SMB to what you expect to be Gold, example: if you have .50 grams of Gold in solution, add approximately .50 grams of SMB. Then let that solution sit for another 24 hours so the Gold can precipitate from the solution and settle on the bottom of your container. If you started with less than 1/2 of a pound of fingers, you may not see the powder very well until you siphon the solution off. Be careful not to pull any solids from the bottom of the container when you siphon the solution off.


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## eeTHr (Oct 7, 2011)

travis---

Do not boil solutions with dissolved gold in them. You can lose values from sudden explosive boiling, and from excessive vapors escaping with gold in them.

Chlorine evaporates out easier than nitric.

Some people set it out in the sun all day, and some let it sit over night.

Some just warm it for an hour or so on a hot plate set to a temperature safely below boiling, or use an old electric coffee pot to warm it, or even a little coffee cup warmer (which is not quite as hot, but will work, just takes a little longer).

Adding water won't get rid of nitric or chlorine, but some water is chemically necessary for precipitation (If you evaporate all the water out, then add SMB, nothing will happen till you add some water, then you get a sudden, instant precipitation as long as there is no nitric or chlorine). Excessive contaminants in the solution may hamper precipitation, but it sounds like what you have there should drop all right.


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## travis86 (Oct 7, 2011)

Thank you eethr! There is about 100ml of tap water in the solution from me cleaning the filter of all gold containing liquid with a squirt bottle. I will put the solution on my hot plate on a low setting. Ithought it wouldnt make sense to boil it since my gold would evaporate, I just wanted to make sure since you guys are the pros and im a newb.


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## Geo (Oct 7, 2011)

place your reaction vessel into a larger container such as a Pyrex sauce pan or casserole dish and add water till it either reaches the top of your solution or just under the top of the pan which ever comes first. place on your heating source and put it on the lowest setting and let it gently warm. do not let it come to a boil. cover the reaction vessel with a watch glass or a glass plate. the heat will drive off the chlorine in about an hour after the solution gets too hot to touch comfortably.


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## travis86 (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks for the tip Geo. I have my solution in a coffee pot currently and I added a little more water and put it on a coffee pot warmer for 20 mins and took it off. I have a few little clumps in the bottom with some dust


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## yvonbug (Oct 7, 2011)

Hi! Mind if I butt in? I'm haveing the same problem. But I was also wondering, I'm useing water from a well. And we think there is a softener system on it. Plus, we think the iron content is kinda high,( cuz it ruins our kool-aid, and tastes kinda yukky). I used to use distilled water for everything. But haven't for the last 2 batches. The big batch I did about a year ago came out fine. This batch isn't dropping at all.


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## Claudie (Oct 7, 2011)

Iron can be a problem. I use well water too but mine is filtered with a Royal Berkey water filter. Well water can also contain gasses that may affect the process. Hydrogen Sulfide is a common problem with well water. I do not know if this would present a problem or not. Maybe one of our more knowledgeable members can offer an answer.


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## dtectr (Oct 8, 2011)

Water "softening" simply exchanges a sodium or potassium ion for a calcium ion, which is why glass cleaned with "softened" water still exhibits spotting (white explosion) from the salts. Or, an excess of calcium = an excess of sodium or potassium salts.

Softened water does NOT equal purified water. The effects of excess sodium or potassium salts will have to be explained by some of our chemists.

Distillation, or Reverse Osmosis (RO) is necessary for PURE water, though I can't justify the waste inherent in RO. (3 gallons waste to one gallon purified)

IMHO


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## Geo (Oct 8, 2011)

a couple of the most common problems with getting gold to precipitate out is (1) you have free chemicals that keeps dissolving the gold as it precipitates out and (2) excess amounts of precipitant being used. one scenario has no visible change in the solution (1) and the other the solution changes color and even sometimes looks like muddy water and the precipitate will not settle (2).in both of these scenarios the answer would be to heat the solution (1) to drive off the free chemical so the gold can precipitate out and (2) drive out the sulfur dioxide gas thats holding the gold in suspension. a third scenario is the less frequent but more troubling answer: there was never any gold in the solution to start with.


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## Harold_V (Oct 8, 2011)

Geo said:


> there was never any gold in the solution to start with.


That's why stannous chloride is required. Refining gold shouldn't be a guessing game.

Harold


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## yvonbug (Oct 8, 2011)

Hi Harold! It's been awhile, Huh?-Yvonne-


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## Harold_V (Oct 9, 2011)

yvonbug said:


> Hi Harold! It's been awhile, Huh?-Yvonne-


Indeed it has. Sounds like you've moved a couple times. Times are tough for lots of folks. Hope you're doing ok. 

I'm curious. Do you finally understand the significance (importance, really) of testing with stannous chloride?

Harold


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## yvonbug (Oct 9, 2011)

Oh yes, I do. I've been looking for my tin solder roll I just bought, I think my hubby took it to work. But I'll get it back (if there is any left of it). I told him that was a "no touchy" item. Yes, and it makes life alot easier, like you said, it shouldn't be a guessing game. You get alot of let downs without it. I think my problem is too much free chlorine? I'm calming down now, so things should clear-up. I know better than to rush this stuff. That's when I forget where I'm at and mess everything up. :roll:


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## yvonbug (Oct 9, 2011)

Uh, I forgot, is heating it the only way to get rid of free chemicals? In this Acid-Clorox method? And can Sodium Sulfite go bad? Even when stored in an airtight container?


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## arthur kierski (Oct 9, 2011)

when gold is dificult to drop with smb,i add a small quantity of naoh and stirr the solution until it darkens(mantaining the ph acid)-------with me always works---
Arthur


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## Geo (Oct 9, 2011)

although heating will drive off both nitric acid and chlorine there's no need to heat chlorine solutions as chlorine will evaporate at room temperature. excess chlorine will evaporate out in a night and day and a quick and harmless way to check is to waft your hand over the vessel toward your face and sniff, if you smell strong chlorine smell there's still chlorine gassing off. *DO NOT DO THIS WITH NITRIC SOLUTIONS* you will smell chlorine even if the solution is ready but if there's no sting to the smell it should be weak enough to dilute and precipitate. AR on the other hand is another story. nitric acid will not evaporate at room temperature and must be removed from solution by other means. heating is one of them, by heating the solution to a simmer but not boiling and keeping it there will cause the nitric to evaporate out of solution.


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## eeTHr (Oct 9, 2011)

The word "simmer" means at or just below the boiling point. I know what you mean, but beginners might not.

The boiling point of AR is significantly higher than that of water, because of the nitric. So, as the nitric evaporates off, the water can suddenly boil explosively, throwing solution out, even with a watch glass.


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## Geo (Oct 9, 2011)

yvonbug said:


> can Sodium Sulfite go bad? Even when stored in an airtight container?



shelf life varies depending on environment in a cool dry area in an airtight container up to 12 months or longer but dont trust the results after 18 months, in conditions less favorable 6-9 months at the most.


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## yvonbug (Oct 9, 2011)

OK. That's probably my problem. All I have left right now is a little container, airtight, that is around 2 years old. I plan on ordering a new bottle of SS on Tuesday, but I needed the gold to sell so I could get it. Gee, my very own little catch 22. Another question. My hubby did in fact run off with my roll of lead free solder. But he has some "silver bearing lead free solder" that I can use. I don't remember if mine said "silver bearing". Would that effect the testing? Does it make any difference? I've never noticed it saying that on the label.


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## Claudie (Oct 9, 2011)

yvonbug, if you want to private message me your mailing address, I will send you a sample of some 99%+ tin powder. You can use it to make some Stannous for testing, but don't tell everyone that I just gave it to you as I don't have a lot to give away.


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## Geo (Oct 9, 2011)

if you use silver bearing solder it shouldn't alter the testing ability. as a matter of fact im using a two pound roll of high content silver solder to make my test solution. after dissolving it leaves the silver as a black powder. i was going to process the solder for the silver anyway so this is getting some extra usage out of it. :lol:


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## Claudie (Oct 9, 2011)

MSDS for Tin Powder http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925265


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## Claudie (Oct 9, 2011)

Well, I had good intentions but it seems that Tin powder is on your states list of hazardous materials, so I won't be able to mail it to you. If you can figure out a way of receiving it without breaking any laws, let me know. The laws in some states are too strict these days. :|


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## Palladium (Oct 9, 2011)

I have a 5lb roll. I will send you some tin solder if you if you pm me your info.


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## yvonbug (Oct 10, 2011)

Well, Geo says the silvers OK, so I'll use it. I can get tin solder, that's what I had that my hubby borrowed. I just noticed for the 1st time that it comes with silver, too. Now, all I need, apparently, is fresh SS. Which I should get on Tuesday. So I'll just cap everything till then. Thanks for letting me butt in! :lol: Everybody's been great! -Yvonbug-

PS I'll let you all know how it goes after Tuesday.


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## marlyn (Jun 21, 2016)

arthur kierski said:


> when gold is dificult to drop with smb,i add a small quantity of naoh and stirr the solution until it darkens(mantaining the ph acid)-------with me always works---
> Arthur



It seems like NaOH did the trick in order of dropping, but when I stir NaOH balls, almost all black powder disappears again 

Do you have any idea, how many grams of NaOH I should use comparing to expected gold amount ?


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