# please help i need your knowledge



## jaythenutz (Jan 28, 2015)

Hello everybody first of all let me introduce my self my name is Jay and I think this is the best site hands down , heads up in the whole WWW realm. I have really enjoyed everybody’s wealth of knowledge and even the rants and raves lol. I have been treasure hunting for a little over five years and yes Harold I have read hokes several time along with C.W. Ammen’s book and pretty near every word on this and Steve’s site that being said I can really use some help help from anybody who has a little time to share. 
Ok so here is my problem I was introduced to a guy thru a friend who has some PM scrap he would like to refine so I take some samples of some of the stuff he has in large quantities so ii can work up a essay and a operating cost for him. So I did some contacts silver on copper pretty simple the contact buttons were about 50% silver 50% copper heated them to about 1200 F. with a prod was able to push the silver halves off of the copper halves then further cleaned with HNO3 and water. So then there is this wire that looks like just thin copper wire like the stuff in the back of crt monitors. So I started by putting it I AR but it didn’t do any thing at all to it , I found out why each strand has a plastic insulation on it so ok I melt a bunch of it then corn flake it and that was that AR made short work of that but tested negative for gold, I also for shits and grins put a hand full in to nitric and water and just ended up with that beautiful blue juice. So im thinking no brainer its pretty much pure copper. Ok so here is my problem I tell the guy my findings and he says ( quite rudely I might add) that I was wrong that he has been doing this for 14 years and he guarantees there is gold in the wire . he goes on saying that not many people know about this type of wire that the gold is powder and is fused into the copper electrically and can not be tested or extracted with chemicals . Only by a electro bath where by charging an acid solution and adding the wire after 15 minutes the gold separated from the copper. I was just wondering if any one has herd of such a thing. I know what my gut and the science is saying but I could be wrong, any one who thinks they know all will be there greatest down fall , I always say any way. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I post some pics..
//thanks //Jay


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## jaythenutz (Jan 28, 2015)

sorry here are some pics of the wire.


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## eastky (Jan 28, 2015)

Spaces in your post would make it more readable. Don't post one long run on post.


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## shmandi (Jan 28, 2015)

I am no expert but that looks like copper wire to me. Sometimes insulating paint has more yellowish tone and it could look like golden.
Where does the wire come from? Why you think it should contain gold? Remember: gold is not used without the reason.


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## solar_plasma (Jan 28, 2015)

> he goes on saying that not many people know about this type of wire that the gold is powder and is fused into the copper electrically and can not be tested or extracted with chemicals .



It is hard to answer this without breaking the forum rules, but I try: Nonsense. Since gold doesn't dissolve in nitric, it WILL be left in the solids, IF there is any gold.




> Only by a electro bath where by charging an acid solution and adding the wire after 15 minutes the gold separated from the copper. I was just wondering if any one has herd of such a thing.



Sounds like sulfuric stripping cell.


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## solar_plasma (Jan 28, 2015)

One possibility: There is that little gold, that you can't find in a small test. Unlikely. How much did you test? You could calculate the areal and the weight of gold at the most thin plating thickness. Somewhere on the forum I think I read how small concentrations of gold can be tested by stannous.


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## butcher (Jan 28, 2015)

Why would there be gold in this wire, what would be the purpose, if there is no reason to use gold in wire a manufacturer is not going to use gold, where did this wire come from?
I have seen aluminum and copper wire with a insulation coating that can be several colors even yellowish. 
It sounds like your friend just wants to believe there is gold, and you may have a hard time trying to get him to see he is wrong, no matter what you do to prove it to him. 

If you used nitric (without chlorides) and ended up with a blue solution (copper nitrate) and seen no flakes of gold, or black powders, you have as I would suspected pretty much proven there is no gold in the wire, even if you used homemade nitric and had some trace of chloride in your nitric acid any gold would have precipitated as foils or black powder, as the copper in the wire dissolved, it would have cemented out any gold.

You could test the copper nitrate solution with a piece of clean copper to see if any gold cements out (if for some reason the solution had chlorides) but I really do not think you will find any gold in the wire.

Electrolytic recovery would not give much any different results, copper wire used in electrical is fairly pure copper, already refined using the electrolytic cells, any gold in the copper already removed when they refined the copper.


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## jaythenutz (Jan 28, 2015)

Thanks everybody those were exactly my thoughts as well, im thinking he paid too much for it in a auction. and is looking for a mid evil alchemist to bail him out..lol


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## kurtak (Jan 28, 2015)

looks like aluminum with a varnish coating - I could be wrong - just saying

Edit; opps - my bad - I looked at the pictures - then posted - then read the OP -  - its copper

Kurt


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 28, 2015)

If magnetic, I would think it is copper plated steel. Bend a piece until it breaks (don't cut it - it will smear) and then look at the end in good lighting, preferably with an eye loupe. If it's white or gray, it's aluminum. If it's pink, it's copper.


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## jaythenutz (Feb 1, 2015)

yeah the guy is certain that there is gold there, he filed a bit of the shielding off and then hit it with 18K test solution and it did not turn green or blue. He told me that it comes from the inside of jet aircraft turbines 

which kind of makes since but i can melt it a few strand at a time with a Bic lighter. I don't know much Jets but pretty sure the turbines burn hotter the 320 f.


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## Palladium (Feb 1, 2015)

People believe the urban myth ebay information no matter what you tell them. He will believe what he believes even when confronted with indisputable facts of science. Those are the kind of signs that say you don't want or need him as a client. Storm clouds are already building on the horizon.


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## jaythenutz (Feb 1, 2015)

yeah that's why i haven't even started putting my cell back together. i am just going to tell him the process he is talking about i have no understanding of it. thanks for the input everybody , i knew the science was good but

he has so much of it i was hoping to learn something new.


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## Smack (Feb 1, 2015)

Degaussing wire


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## Palladium (Feb 1, 2015)

jaythenutz said:


> yeah that's why i haven't even started putting my cell back together. i am just going to tell him the process he is talking about i have no understanding of it. thanks for the input everybody , i knew the science was good but
> 
> he has so much of it i was hoping to learn something new.



But you did learn something new!


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## g_axelsson (Feb 1, 2015)

jaythenutz said:


> yeah the guy is certain that there is gold there, he filed a bit of the shielding off and then hit it with 18K test solution and it did not turn green or blue. He told me that it comes from the inside of jet aircraft turbines
> 
> which kind of makes since but i can melt it a few strand at a time with a Bic lighter. I don't know much Jets but pretty sure the turbines burn hotter the 320 f.





Smack said:


> Degaussing wire



Enameled aluminum degaussing wires wouldn't give any colors with 18k test solution. By the way, that's the wrong way to use the testing solution. Read up on "touch stone".

Göran


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