# I want information, how recover palladium and silver from electronic devices



## Nagnath Sargar (Jul 20, 2017)

If material in the form of silver epoxy .. inside this have silver and palladium.. must recover both. How to separate both? 
some of the electronic chip's that need to recover gold and sliver. How to done it?


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## jimdoc (Jul 20, 2017)

It is all here, just type what you are looking to learn in the search box.
You found the right place, just do some more homework.


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## Lino1406 (Jul 20, 2017)

Silver epoxy is ordinary, but what does palladium there?


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## justinhcase (Jul 21, 2017)

My Gram Mother would have washed your mouth out with soap.
"I want" is a statement of fact and not a polite request.
When asserted loudly it can be mistaken for a demand which is quite impolite.
The more I mature the more I appreciate the small things my Gran taught me.
"please may I have" a much more pleasant way to phrase a request.


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## anachronism (Jul 21, 2017)

The guy is Indian so there's a chance that something has been lost in translation. We have trouble interpreting some people's native english language sometimes and I bet that we wouldn't to a stellar job of understanding the basics of Punjabi let alone the nuances of the language.


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## justinhcase (Jul 21, 2017)

anachronism said:


> The guy is Indian so there's a chance that something has been lost in translation. We have trouble interpreting some people's native english language sometimes and I bet that we wouldn't to a stellar job of understanding the basics of Punjabi let alone the nuances of the language.


If they have put in enough effort to become as fluent as they are, I would think polite coaching on the finer points of polite communication might be welcome.
Of course some find it hard to understand the value of such things.
My spelling may be atrocious, but my spoken word and table manners are up to speed. :lol:


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## kurtak (Jul 21, 2017)

justinhcase said:


> My Gram Mother would have washed your mouth out with soap.
> "I want" is a statement of fact and not a polite request.
> When asserted loudly it can be mistaken for a demand which is quite impolite.
> The more I mature the more I appreciate the small things my Gran taught me.
> "please may I have" a much more pleasant way to phrase a request.



Why am I NOT surprised that you find fault with such a nit picky issue - rather then try to help with the "real" issue (of refining) with ether some advice (about refining) &/or some questions to get advice (about refining) going in the right direction :roll: 

Kurt


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## kurtak (Jul 21, 2017)

Nagnath Sargar said:


> If material in the form of silver epoxy .. inside this have silver and palladium.. must recover both. How to separate both?
> some of the electronic chip's that need to recover gold and sliver. How to done it?



Nagnath

You have not really provided enough information about the material you are working with in order for us to provide proper answers

Are you talking about IC chip from circuit boards ? --- or some other type material ?

In any case - you are talking about epoxy with precious metals tied up in the epoxy - therefore I would "think" the first step would be incineration to turn the epoxy to ash followed by ether chemical leaching - or smelting

The actual process would be more involved - but we need more information about the material before we can help with more detailed information of actual processing

Kurt


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## justinhcase (Jul 21, 2017)

kurtak said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > My Gram Mother would have washed your mouth out with soap.
> ...


Why am I not surprised you fail to understand the point of some one you find unpalatable?
"Manners maketh man"
It was my understanding encouraging good forum etiquette was to be encouraged.
"Manners must adorn knowledge, and smooth its way through the world. Like a great rough diamond, it may do very well in a closet by way of curiosity, and also for its intrinsic value; but it will never be worn, nor shine, if it is not polished. "Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 21, 2017)

Let's get back to trying to help the OP.

Dave


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## anachronism (Jul 21, 2017)

kurtak said:


> Why am I NOT surprised that you find fault with such a nit picky issue - rather then try to help with the "real" issue (of refining) with ether some advice (about refining) &/or some questions to get advice (about refining) going in the right direction :roll:
> 
> Kurt



Edited - the post wouldn't have made any difference and probably wouldn't have helped.


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## g_axelsson (Jul 21, 2017)

Nagnath, you are asking a couple of quite basic questions.

My suggestion is that you should put some work into basic learning of refining, that way you will be able to ask the relevant questions as well as understand our answers.
* Hoke's book "Refining precious metal wastes" : Links in http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/Hoke to both her books.
* The library contains a lot of good threads : http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=85

There are a ton of threads about refining chips, gold and palladium. Spend some time to read those threads before starting to ask questions and you will get a lot more help.

And guys, if Nagnath is going to be scolded for anything it is not grammar. The guy is from India and some words might not translate straight over, grammar even less.

Feel free for scolding him for registering and then in 10 minutes asking quite basic questions. That isn't time enough to read the forum rules. :wink: 

Göran


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## jimdoc (Jul 21, 2017)

This is a PM I got from Nagnath;
Sir please send me link related to this subject. Which is mentioned in subject. Also want idea recover copper from sludge. The sludge is produced from electronic chip's. Please give me ur mobile number this is for me to explain u

I think he wants someone to hold his hand and answer all his questions.
I don't think the rudeness is from translation. Adding a few pleases doesn't make him polite.
I suggest that nobody gives him your mobile number, as you will probably get a new best friend.

Jim


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## 4metals (Jul 21, 2017)

For the last year we have been trying the more gentle approach. We have been trying to help new members who pose questions without the first 15 replies being read Hoke. But sometimes they do want as Jim suggests to have their hand held, and that just doesn't happen, nor should it. There is work involved in learning refining and those of us who have done the work and experienced success, realize that. 

But what if we, the body of contributing members of the forum, were to answer questions like these seriously, without commenting on grammar or what part of the world the OP is from. What we would have is valuable threads for specific scrap types that we could edit out all of the trash (of which this thread has a lot) and post it in the library. Then when any one of us gets the same type of material it is easy to look it up and see how others suggest doing it. So I suggest we answer the question seriously, as Kurt tried to do before this thread again fell off track, and generate something that all members, present and future, may benefit from. 

So...... Kurt started with incineration...... any opinions as to what is next? 

(PS. Read Hoke is not an acceptable answer!)


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jul 21, 2017)

4metals said:


> So...... Kurt started with incineration...... any opinions as to what is next?
> 
> (PS. Read Hoke is not an acceptable answer!)



Depends on if there is any amount of ferrous materials in the feedstock.

Assuming it does, have magnetic legs, or something else ferrous.
I would have to assume -pyrolisis, incineration, crushing, magnetic separation, sifting, crushing oversized pieces, sifting again (sieve, if you prefer that term), then 50/50 nitric leach.

After that is the big moment of truth, isnt it?
Do you drop the silver as a chloride, then cement the Pd on copper?
Do you scavenge the Pd with DMG, then cement silver with copper?

I would venture to say, the avenue of approach (after dissolving the precious parts) is dependant upon what the concentration of metals is in solution.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 21, 2017)

4metals said:


> So...... Kurt started with incineration...... any opinions as to what is next?


Pyrolysis might be a better first step, followed by incineration. Then as Topher said, it depends on what's left. Rather than guessing, I hope Nagnath can provide some more information on exactly what he's working with. Pictures are always helpful, as is any information about where the scrap has come from. I hope he'll return and give us some more details.

Dave


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## 4metals (Jul 21, 2017)

The material I have seen were ceramic substrates with a palladium silver epoxy coating. These would require a different approach. I agree with Dave that the OP has to come back and clarify what his material is and ideally send some photo's as well. 

As usual, more information up front generates better methods of processing.


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 2, 2017)

jimdoc said:


> This is a PM I got from Nagnath;
> Sir please send me link related to this subject. Which is mentioned in subject. Also want idea recover copper from sludge. The sludge is produced from electronic chip's. Please give me ur mobile number this is for me to explain u
> 
> I think he wants someone to hold his hand and answer all his questions.
> ...



I'm on the finishing.com forum every day and there are probably more people on there from India than any other country other than the US. Many of these initial Indian posts sound very demanding and pushy - "Here's a list of what I want and I want it right now." Actually, it's not that bad but, sometimes, it's close. I've gotten used to it and It really doesn't bother me. The forum owner always lets it slide and usually tries to answer every post. Maybe rudeness has a different definition in India. Also, it seems a person's 2nd and 3rd posts in the thread are more polite.


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## Shark (Aug 2, 2017)

When using translators to make posts or to speak with someone that uses another language it is best to use as few words as possible. This helps to avoid losses in the translation. It can make the message sound very demanding, but it is getting the main context across. Sometimes there is no direct translation for a word or phrase and it gets even more complicated. Many times people use translators to learn another language and those errors or etiquette's are carried across into their speech as well. While these translators have came along way over the last 15 years or so, they still leave much to be desired. It is a shame with all the advance in computers these translators are still so far behind in their field.


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## 4metals (Aug 4, 2017)

What gets me is not that the request sounds rude. 

I attribute rude to either translation or different cultures and i get over it, but when a new member asks and then disappears when asked questions from members actually trying to help him, that is annoying!


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## Shark (Aug 4, 2017)

4metals said:


> What gets me is not that the request sounds rude.
> 
> I attribute rude to either translation or different cultures and i get over it, but when a new member asks and then disappears when asked questions from members actually trying to help him, that is annoying!



Yes, I can see how that would be very annoying.


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## anachronism (Aug 4, 2017)

Annoying? Hehe it's downright rude.


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## nickvc (Aug 5, 2017)

Over the years I have learnt to be more tolerant to those members whose first language isn't English as explaining let alone translating what we do is not easy but those whose mother tongue is English I'm afraid if they come with a bad attitude I tend to ignore their posts :evil: 
Manners are important but translating them not so easy so give a little slack to those who are trying to learn.


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## justinhcase (Aug 5, 2017)

They say ignorance is bliss.
They are quite right once you have a basic understanding of human phycology you will find your basic reaction to people changed.
We all adapt our hand shake protocols based on our environmental demands.
Some adapt their actions to better communicate with others on an honest level, some to manipulate others around them to their maniacal benefit.
Both schools of thought use and manipulate the same base programming for to different reasons.
The trick is to learn to distinguish between the two.
It takes years of training in extremely adverse environments to fine tune your natural ability to do so.
But in the last twenty years, we have developed our understanding and analytical techniques to the point where we can detect people with hostile intent no matter how well they think they have camouflaged their intention's
I find they tend to give them self's away in the little things such as manners.
You then look at them a little more carefully, if they are on the straight they will not mind.


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## Simon007 (Aug 5, 2017)

Justinhcase, sometimes you amaze me, you are so quick to judge someone publicly when they get something wrong or doesn't say something that you approve of, but people in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones, sometimes I find your posts hard to read because your spelling is atrocious and the grammar isn't much better. Now being as you either write your posts on a computer or a mobile device, both have a spell check function. Now like I said glass houses and all that!
Now honestly I couldn't careless if your spelling is rubbish, I don't say anything, because what is the point? Where does it get us? The word is get over it! Now how is your Punjabi? Is it top notch? Maybe you could speak to the op in his language. No one is better than anyone else in this world and with the world wide web its a very small world, there's too much crap that people have to deal with, why make more?
Thing is the text, the written word on forum's or text messages or whatever, have no emotions, so one lot of words can be read differently by different people.


Now you will probably take this all the wrong way and retaliate by saying to belittle me!

Let's have more peace in this world.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## justinhcase (Aug 5, 2017)

Simon007 said:


> Justinhcase, sometimes you amaze me, you are so quick to judge someone publicly when they get something wrong or doesn't say something that you approve of, but people in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones, sometimes I find your posts hard to read because your spelling is atrocious and the grammar isn't much better. Now being as you either write your posts on a computer or a mobile device, both have a spell check function. Now like I said glass houses and all that!
> Now honestly I couldn't careless if your spelling is rubbish, I don't say anything, because what is the point? Where does it get us? The word is get over it! Now how is your Punjabi? Is it top notch? Maybe you could speak to the op in his language. No one is better than anyone else in this world and with the world wide web its a very small world, there's too much crap that people have to deal with, why make more?
> Thing is the text, the written word on forum's or text messages or whatever, have no emotions, so one lot of words can be read differently by different people.
> 
> ...


If you had the slightest understanding of me you would understand I only retaliate to actual attacks.My particular form of neural diversity lets me see things in others that most miss.it always amazes me when people can not see the blatant patterns.but they cant.that is the way it is.I make a very good living at it.
As with every thing I always back up my gut instinct with qualitative testing and further research.
I do not want to give away the techniques that I depend on.
But the first and most basic test in the security industry is called "The Challenge".
It is simply saying hello and asking what some one's intent is.
It can be adapted to any situation, and the more probing you want that contact to be the more forceful you make it.you can tell a lot about people in the area from there reactions.
I specialize in the soft approach.It would be interesting to see your reactions to a mildly defensive or aggressive interdiction.


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## 4metals (Aug 5, 2017)

I use a much more simplistic approach, I never over analyze a situation, I read or listen to what is said, often it is easy to actually miss what is going on by over analysis. An example of this is my wife. She is quite noticing of outward appearances to the point where it can affect how she comprehends a situation. If I am talking to her and happen to be wearing one of many shirts with an acid hole in it (tiny holes, nothing big), she cannot hear what I am saying, she is just focused on that hole. I think the same applies to over analyzing any situation. 

I strive for consistency in business and my responses to business and to members of this forum. I attribute this to the fact that I was raised by 2 honest parents who taught me to respect other people and their positions, and try to evaluate every situation from the perspective of the other guy. So consistency is the goal and I tried my level best to show that to the OP and get past any language barriers and help him. But his actions, or inactions, on this thread show me that he isn't worth the effort.

So Jon is right, the OP is being rude, plain and simple.

edit; Re-reading the example I used about my wife, I want to add she is a wonderful kind and caring woman, she just is really sensitive about the acid holes in my clothes!


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## Simon007 (Aug 5, 2017)

Justinhcase, no your right, I don't have the slightest understanding of you, the same as you don't me, or the op, but you passed a judgment before reading the whole story, you attacked me once just because I asked a question. And I'm sorry, you don't retaliate to an actual attack, you attack before anyone gets the chance. Now I know everyone is different, but why always be on the defensive all the time, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Yes there are people who do the same things on here, and they also come and go quick enough. But I love to know where you got your qualitative testing from and how much actual research you did on the op, maybe your right, maybe he is another chancer on here, but does the world need another pitbull snarling and spitting trying to get a bite in? The attack approach is not the way forward as it always breeds attack and arrogance is not an excuse.

4metals I am exactly the same, read the whole book, don't over analyse things and you see so much more. But maybe the op isn't worth the time or maybe he struggled to understand what is going on in here!
But why label people before they have the chance to defend themselves?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## justinhcase (Aug 5, 2017)

Simon007 said:


> Justinhcase, no your right, I don't have the slightest understanding of you, the same as you don't me, or the op, but you passed a judgment before reading the whole story, you attacked me once just because I asked a question. And I'm sorry, you don't retaliate to an actual attack, you attack before anyone gets the chance. Now I know everyone is different, but why always be on the defensive all the time, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Yes there are people who do the same things on here, and they also come and go quick enough. But I love to know where you got your qualitative testing from and how much actual research you did on the op, maybe your right, maybe he is another chancer on here, but does the world need another pitbull snarling and spitting trying to get a bite in? The attack approach is not the way forward as it always breeds attack and arrogance is not an excuse.
> 
> 4metals I am exactly the same, read the whole book, don't over analyse things and you see so much more. But maybe the op isn't worth the time or maybe he struggled to understand what is going on in here!
> But why label people before they have the chance to defend themselves?
> ...


Innocent until proven guilty is for the criminal courts.
In trade it is Buyer beware!you are responsible for your own well being do not leave it in other's hands!
I only have a limited resource to invest, so I only invest it when I know it is safe.
I was interested as I do have a number of U.K. contacts that have a large family and business interests in that area who have said they would love for me to visit.
If he had been serious I would have been happy to take a working holiday to get him up and running.
My basic training was doing night time emergency response for the sheltered housing division for a large U.K. city.
Family dispute's, Drug Adicts and people under the protection of local court or community services.
The rest I learned my self, tends to focus your mind when you have to wear a stab vest to work every night.
I did draw heavily from the research of Dr George Simon PhD a clinical psychologists from Texas Tech University who has specialized in disturbances of personality and character for almost 25 years.His opinion
is at one with mine.
P.S. 
Personal side note to any one who would like to discuss further in privet.
I have noted in a number of papers that there is a lot of interest at present in the phycology of successful business persons.
If the research is to be believed 60% of the top company CEO's are clinical Sociopaths the remaining 40% tend to be neurologically divergent, mostly dyslexics.am I the only one who can see a battle going on?


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## anachronism (Aug 5, 2017)

4metals said:


> edit; Re-reading the example I used about my wife, I want to add she is a wonderful kind and caring woman, she just is really sensitive about the acid holes in my clothes!



Well that IS a lot kinder than calling her out as borderline OCD :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I have a similar thing going on here though 4metals, but don't tell anyone OK?


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 5, 2017)

anachronism said:


> 4metals said:
> 
> 
> > edit; Re-reading the example I used about my wife, I want to add she is a wonderful kind and caring woman, she just is really sensitive about the acid holes in my clothes!
> ...



I suppose then its a consensus amongst all refiners, that all of their better halves dislike the "ruining of your good clothes/shoes", and the time we devote to metal.

...and I can only assume, that your wives also like to spend the money made from that metal as well.. Sometimes before it has even cleared the account. :lol:

My wife recently "when do you have paypal money coming in again, I want to spend 175 on these curtains... Aren't they pretty"
Me - "sure babe"


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## anachronism (Aug 5, 2017)

Ahh well actually my other half has her own money to spend. 8)


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## Topher_osAUrus (Aug 5, 2017)

anachronism said:


> Ahh well actually my other half has her own money to spend. 8)



Mine does too, and a lot more than me! :lol:


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## upcyclist (Aug 7, 2017)

justinhcase said:


> They say ignorance is bliss.
> They are quite right once you have a basic understanding of human phycology you will find your basic reaction to people changed.
> We all adapt our hand shake protocols based on our environmental demands.
> Some adapt their actions to better communicate with others on an honest level, some to manipulate others around them to their maniacal benefit.
> ...


My only comment on this (nope, not getting into the glass houses discussion!) is that generally such fine-tuned motive analysis is culture-specific. I'll bet your radar for bad motives is well developed when you are in your usual environment, but different cultures have different tells. 

For example, some African businessfolk can make me batty, but they're not being dishonest or even slick--it's more about how business gets done in Africa. And since their cues are a little different, they're harder to read.


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## justinhcase (Aug 7, 2017)

upcyclist said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > They say ignorance is bliss.
> ...


Hard to read so you must engage further.
An honest individual will be more open and less aggressive to question.
It is a little like a personal game of chicken some times.
But nice foke do not escalate a situation.
It is a dirty hand's on enviroment but it is the basis of all front line activity.
Individual interaction is where the rubber hits the road.
distinguishing friend from foe is a very important skill.the more valuable the commodity you deal with the more important that skill will be to you.
I personally chose to use every advantage that has been presented to me by modern understanding of human analysis.
got to love the U.S. B.A.U.
and you are very correct to question my qualifications to operate in Africa.
I am licensed and trained for Main Land Europe.
having just renewed my license I can quote it exactly." To work in the Security sector as a front line operative, manager, supervisor or employer of a licensed security operative in any licensable sector or as the director or partner of a company or partnership providing licensable services with in the U.K. and Europe"
If I had a client going into Any African state on business I would hand them on up to Black Water.
It would be the best in country service for the job, though they are not very subtle..


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## rickbb (Aug 9, 2017)

justinhcase said:


> .....I would hand them on up to Black Water.
> ........ though they are not very subtle..



And that is the very definition of understatement. :wink:


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## g_axelsson (Aug 18, 2017)

Nagnath Sargar, please, no double post! Keep it in one thread.

Your new thread with the same question has been deleted.

Göran


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## Nagnath Sargar (Aug 21, 2017)

Nagnath Sargar said:


> If material in the form of silver epoxy ..which is used for soldering connections on PCB board material is in the form of paste.inside this material silver and palladium.. must recover both. How to separate both?
> Also I have 20 kg polypropylene tissue paper which is used for gold cleaning there is some amount of gold I want recover gold from tissue. How possible it.


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## MRN (Feb 3, 2018)

After reading all the posts from various members, I conclude that Nagnath is uncouth, which is normal as a Indian, he must have read the responses to his posts, yet he never thanked the respondent.


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## rickbb (Feb 6, 2018)

Nah, he only posted twice and was last on the forum Aug 23rd. 

He didn't get an immediate answer so he moved on. Probably to useless tube.


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 7, 2018)

One time, my wife got cyanide itch from handling my dirty clothes. She was not happy.


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## anachronism (Feb 7, 2018)

goldsilverpro said:


> One time, my wife got cyanide itch from handling my dirty clothes. She was not happy.



Not happy? I bet that went down like a cup of cold sick Chris. 8)


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