# gold Foil Recovery( Need Response ASAP)



## GoldrecoveryNoob (Oct 3, 2019)

I need immediate help, What I soaked in AP solution was CPUs, PCBs and gold plated pins. I let it set there for two months occasional stirring. When I filter the scrap it was stuck together so I put it in a new bath the filtered, the filter paper was filled with gray sludge mixed with foils which I believe is plastic and copper, I passed a magnetic through the sludge and barely got anything magnetic. I don't know what to do next. When I mix the foils with acid bleach solution will it dissolve the copper? If it does when I put SMB will it only drop the gold dust. Someone Respond ASAP I need to finish the process.


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## Johnny5 (Oct 3, 2019)

I don't want to get involved at all, because you have made several mistakes already, and I stopped processing years ago.
However you want someone to help you as soon as possible, so here is the best advice that you can recieve at this time, relax. That is niether a metaphor, nor am I being humorous. You need to stop right where you are, put a lid on everything, until you know exactly what you must do to complete this process. At this time you are on a dangerous path, that could very easily get you hurt, or worse, hurt someone else. 
I am not going to sit here and berate you, and list what you've done wrong. More than likely someone else will though, so if you don't have tough skin, I'd highly suggest you get some quick. It's not that anyone here is making fun of you, it's that you have made some mistakes, and mistakes are not a luxury that people working with chemicals have. I do not have the time to itemize everything you need to know to complete what you've started.
But I strongly urge you to heed my advice to a tee! Cover up all the chemicals that you have that are open, an relax, calm down, chill out(as the kids say), go have some coffee, watch tv, or whatever you need to do to take your mind off of that material for now! That gold is not going anywhere!
You can trust me when I tell you that you will get the help you need. However it's not going to be in your time. There are quite a few contributing members (from around the world) here that I am sure will give you some assistance, but you can not expect them to do it on your clock. 
On that note I do have to head out, but I'll check in later tonight. Best of luck.
P.S. You can help out some of our very anal members (like me), by answering these questions.
Where exactly are you doing this process? Are you inside or outside? Are you near other buildings, structures, people? What EXACTLY do you have for safety equipment? 
There will be other questions, from other members, but if you'll answer these first, it will help get the ball rolling for the others that will step in to help.
Thank you,
Johnny


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## GoldrecoveryNoob (Oct 3, 2019)

This process is taking place in St.Lucia in an unroofed room in my dads recycling business. Me and him are the only ones involved.


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## glorycloud (Oct 3, 2019)

Have you tried soaking the material that is left over in fresh HCL?
It sounds like that the gray "stuff" may be tin. A picture of the
remaining material may help.


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## rickbb (Oct 3, 2019)

Don't know what the gray sludge is, doubt it is either plastic or copper. AP dissolves copper, that's how you get gold foils floating around. The copper the gold is plated to is dissolved out from underneath it. That you have some gold foils you can see indicates the copper was dissolved. 

What was the CPU's? You did remove the heat sinks first right?

In addition, how much "stuff" are we talking about here? A few ounces, pounds, tons?


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## Martijn (Oct 3, 2019)

Welcome to the forum. Your nickname and the remark about your dad's recycling buisiness tells me this is your first attempt and you have thrown in way more you can handle. Stop what your doing and learn first about the best ways to handle different types of scrap. As said, some pictures would help alot. 
Dont expect a quick fix to solve this serious problem. 
I have no experience with the AP process, but have studied it.
The gray slime could be tin paste, but tin paste forms after contact with nitric i believe. 
Wait for more experienced members to explain the exact chemistry behind it. Lots of patience, learning and thick skin will be needed.
A good start is hoke's book. I hope you will put in the time to learn and deal with the waste reponsibly. 
E scrap refining is not as easy as youtube makes us believe.
Be safe.


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## butcher (Oct 3, 2019)

CuCl white will dissolve in HCl.

PbCl2 white to clear often needle-like crystals fairly insoluble in cold water becomes much more soluble in very hot water.

NaCl is soluble in water (about the same hot or cold).

AgCl white fluffy takes time to settle, will (darken when rinsed of excess acids) and in light,
Insoluble in acid or water cold or hot.


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## galenrog (Oct 3, 2019)

I just want to know where you got your information from, because it was not here.

This is important. Knowing where bad information comes from helps Forum members teach others where not to go. Example: YouTube is rife with misinformation. Most is from ignorance, some is deliberate. 

I have never done what you did, so I can not help you recover from your mess. 

Time for more coffee.


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## g_axelsson (Oct 3, 2019)

What you have made is a classical mess, take a whole bunch of different gold containing object, dunk it in acid and expect to get something consistent out of it. 

Dissolved tin will sooner or later turn into metastannic acid, that is a grey goo that is hard to filter and something most refiners try to avoid. It will not dissolve in more HCl, so once you made some it is almost impossible to get rid of it. Search the forum and you will find a lot of information here.

If this is what you have made then you just have to deal with it. There are a couple of workarounds though.

Göran


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## GoldrecoveryNoob (Oct 9, 2019)

Here are the pictures.

Scrap Used
*CPU processors
*PCB trimmings
*Gold plated pins
1. I soaked the scrap in AP solution for 2mths because I didn't make it strong and didn't want to dissolve gold.
2. 2mths later the scrap struck together I broke it apart and made a new AP solution and agitated once for a few days.
3. I strained the scrap through kitchen strainers and set it aside.
4. I then filtered and got a grey sludge mixed with a lot of gold foils so I washed it in HCL a few times with the filters also, then with water, I tested it with stannous and it was negative. I still had some some grey muck mixed with foils so I thought it was the filter so I let it sit in HCL+ H2O2 to cut down on it.
5. I filtered again and just got grey muck with few gold particles I tested the water again and it was still negative . This is where I am right now.

What I wanna know
*How to get gold from all the muck
My stannous should be good because it was bought and and opened a few days later.

pictures are attached


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## butcher (Oct 9, 2019)

Scrap Used
*CPU processors
*PCB trimmings
*Gold plated pins
(Trash in trash out)


1. I soaked the scrap in AP solution for 2mths because I didn't make it strong and didn't want to dissolve gold.
2. 2mths later the scrap struck together I broke it apart and made a new AP solution and agitated once for a few days.
3. I strained the scrap through kitchen strainers and set it aside.

(Most of your gold could still be in the scrap).


4. I then filtered and got a grey sludge mixed with a lot of gold foils so I washed it in HCL a few times with the filters also, then with water, I tested it with stannous and it was negative. 

I still had some grey muck mixed with foils so I thought it was the filter so I let it sit in HCL+ H2O2 to cut down on it.
(Which could now have put some gold in solution)

5. I filtered again and just got grey muck with few gold particles I tested the water again and it was still negative. This is where I am right now.

What I wanna know
*How to get gold from all the muck
My stannous should be good because it was bought and opened a few days later.


GoldrecoveryNoob,

Ok so you have made a mess, and want to know how to get gold out of this "Muck"
You also asked for some advice, I can only speak for myself, and how I would deal with this.
Well, I would put all of the "Muck" in one bucket along with a bar of clean copper, with a lid, store in a safe place away from children, pets....

I would not be very concerned about recovering the gold from this mess, although we can get to that point later.

How much time do you want to spend learning how to get gold from doing things you do not understand making a mess from mixing acids and metals, working with dangers you do not understand?

Is this tiny amount of gold in the trash "Muck" worth the health of your family? How much time would you spend chasing your tail after it? 

That time would be better spent educating yourself, Gaining an understanding and learning a skill, and learning how to recover and even refine these precious metals.

Now I would start with learning to deal with waste, basically, the toxic trash like you have in your bucket.

Study, dealing with waste in the safety section, while your safely stored bucket of Muck is doing its chemistry. The time spent in this study will help you gain an understanding of the chemistry we will use to recover your gold foils, and learn how to deal with the toxic solution...

I gave you the first step, I would take on a long journey of learning this skill, if you decide to follow my footsteps, then after you catch up, we can discuss more steps along the journey...

You can take pictures and we can then discuss further steps that we can take...

I would put away the acids and chemicals, for the time being, we have a lot of things we need to do, to begin preparing for this long journey, we do not want to buy anything we do not need, we can collect scrap but we must learn more of how to prepare it for recovery, we do not want to buy anything including scrap we do not know the value of, we will probably at first try and collect a scrap material like memory fingers we can begin to learn with, which we can save up for use later in the journey.

Get a copy of Hoke's book we will need to refer to it as we learn more.


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## GoldrecoveryNoob (Oct 10, 2019)

Good Day,
My father just wants to know how he will be able to get the gold from the muck. I'll tell him to heat up the solution to chase off the chlorine gas and then test it. We have safety equipment like gloves, respirators, and boots if the chemicals spill.


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## butcher (Oct 10, 2019)

So you are not interested in spending your time learning to recover and refine gold, and only interested in chasing the gold around in the muck?

I do not have time to help chase gold around in the muck, I will spend my time learning to refine and recover gold and learning from and helping others with the same interests.


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## thepickerexchange (Oct 10, 2019)

butcher said:


> CuCl white will dissolve in HCl.
> 
> PbCl2 white to clear often needle-like crystals fairly insoluble in cold water becomes much more soluble in very hot water.
> 
> ...




Thank you Butcher for this. It’s the kind of useful information that someone looking for answers can build on. A beginning point for research. We all say, “Stop! Do your research”

Those of us who are new to these processes don’t know what we are possibly dealing with to know what we are to research. It’s why we come here. For guidance and to be pointed in a direction that builds upon what went wrong. 

Although well intentioned, “Stop what you’re doing and research” is frustrating because scouring the forum is part of the research. The ability to ask for help to understand what we are needing to learn is the beginning point of research. 

Your response has given a very good starting point for someone to build upon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Johnny5 (Oct 10, 2019)

Johnny5 said:


> * Cover up all the chemicals that you have that are open, and relax*,........ take your mind off of that material for now! That gold is not going anywhere!
> *it's not going to be in your time.*
> *you can not expect them to do it on your clock.*
> Johnny





rickbb said:


> In addition, how much "stuff" are we talking about here? A few ounces, pounds, tons?





Martijn said:


> * Stop what your doing and learn first* about the best ways to handle different types of scrap.
> *Dont expect a quick fix *to solve this serious problem.
> *A good start is hoke's book*.
> E scrap refining is not as easy as youtube makes us believe.
> Be safe.





g_axelsson said:


> What you have made is a classical mess,
> *Search the forum and you will find a lot of information here.*
> Göran





GoldrecoveryNoob said:


> What I wanna know
> *How to get gold from all the muck





butcher said:


> Well, I would put all of the "Muck" in one bucket along with a bar of clean copper, with a lid, store in a safe place away from children, pets....
> 
> I would not be very concerned about recovering the gold from this mess
> 
> ...





GoldrecoveryNoob said:


> Good Day,
> My father just wants to know how he will be able to get the gold from the muck. I'll tell him to heat up the solution to chase off the chlorine gas and then test it. We have safety equipment like gloves, respirators, and boots if the chemicals spill.



Do you see a problem?! 
I told you from the very beginning, to stop what you are doing. Others have told you to stop what you are doing. Others have asked you questions that you haven't answered. Others have given you some very solid advice, and you keep insisting that they give you what you want, now. That is a slap in the face, to those people trying to help you. 
I know you are excited, and I know that you are eager. Allow me share some reality with you, It is entirely possible that you have no more than a few dollars worth of gold. In this field, it is VERY possible to spend hundreds of dollars, to extract $10 worth of gold. 

As Galenrog pointed out


galenrog said:


> YouTube is rife with misinformation.


And I have a suspicion, that is where you started. 
As I stated in my first post, you can get the help you need here, and a lot of members will help you.
I purposely wrote this last part at the end, because I want it to be the last thing you read in my post. 
There are some members of this forum that are more patient, and more forgiving, than others. We have one specific member that has very little of both, and will NOT be kind, if he sees that you are not listening to the advice that others have been offering you! Please take this as sincere request, stop messing with the gold scrap. Listen to everything that others are trying to teach you, and remember that they are trying to help you for free.


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## butcher (Oct 10, 2019)

thepickerexchange,

I understand the frustration, but good advice is just that.
I have taught myself many different skills, and I find that studying and learning basic principles is always the best place to begin, and keep learning and gaining a better understanding of the principles as you continue to learn and gain more knowledge in the field of work.

I have taught myself for example electronics, I can repair or build almost any device I desire.
In the beginning, I did not even know the language or terminology used.
I subscribed to a magazine about electronics, I could barely understand the articles in the beginning, but I would keep reading them, and little at a time bit by bit I would begin to learn the language, understand the basics, learn on simple circuits, learn to read schematics, learn to calculate the complicated formulas, learn to build and repair most anything electrical or electronic related...

We all start somewhere, learning the basics is a good place to start.

So we have members who wish to learn electronics, they start by getting a high voltage power supply transformer and an Xray tube and begin to wire it up with what they think they have learned from some idea they got from some yahoo making a youtube video, after the sparks and the smoke clears from the light show and the experiment does not go the way it did in the video, they ask for help (ASAP), well my response would be for them to stop and put away the acids, and get back to the basics, study the basic principles.


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## GoldrecoveryNoob (Oct 10, 2019)

We processed 3kgs gold scrap which include mostly pins and fingers with a few processors.


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## GoldrecoveryNoob (Oct 10, 2019)

He says he'll wait and start research on electrolysis and do more on the chemical process.


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## GoldrecoveryNoob (Oct 10, 2019)

I thank you guys for the help it just that we spent a ton of time with the process letting it sit there for 2 months before starting anything.


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## Johnny5 (Oct 10, 2019)

GoldrecoveryNoob said:


> I thank you guys for the help it just that we spent a ton of time with the process letting it sit there for 2 months before starting anything.


Very glad to hear this.
I know it disappointing, and I'm sure you and your dad must be very excited right now to finish this up, but if you do this right, you'll look back on this day, and be glad you waited. My first button of gold was less than 1 gram, since then I have recovered and refined many pounds of gold. And I owe almost all of my refining knowledge, to the members here. You'll get there. You are in the right place, and that is the most important thing.


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## butcher (Oct 10, 2019)

While doing some study on dealing with waste, you will learn some of the basic principles.
During this time the copper in the bucket will be undergoing a chemical reaction to recover any gold that can be recovered from the solution (that is if it can be reduced).

During your study of waste treatment you will learn of some of the very imprtant basic principles of recovering and of refining, one of which you have already started, by adding the clean bar of copper to the solution.

The copper will displace gold from solution, or cement the gold, Here were are using copper as a reducing agent, just the same as if we used a chemical reducing agent.

The solution then we can save and use later for a recovery process, or treat it as waste, preparing it for safe disposal...

The Muck, well lets just dry it out, for now, we can deal with it later and recover the gold from it.

Now the solution is bassically an chloride solution of copper and many other metals, which could be used as a cupric chloride or ferric chloride leach, but lets go ahead and treat it for waste, basically using it to learn more by doing what we have studied.

So we took the bar of copper out after it has done its job of displacing any gold or valueble metals from solution, and brushed off any black powder or salts from the copper bar back into the solution with the muck, we let the this settle overnight while we studied more in the safety section, we decanted the solution without disturbing the muck, washing the muck in water and drying it out for recovery later...

Then we get us a claen piece of iron rebar, here we will use again what we learned from our study of dealing with waste, and more about the chemisty of recovery and refining, we will put the iron into solution, not all metals will react to the iron, the iron is also a reducing agent, just like the other chemicals we use to recover and refine gold, here the iron is selective of what metals it will reduce, or what dissolved metal ion it will change back into metal, with this process we will recover our copper as metal, we can save it for use in recovery or refining with or use it in many different ways.

At this point we have a iron chloride solution and other very reactive metals, we could save this solution, for as ferric chloride leaching process to recover gold or silver or just treat it further for waste...

Now the iron chloride solution we can use lime or NaOH, to treat it further for waste, here we will also learn much more form the chemisty, converting the metals to oxides and hydroxides, with each and every step in learning to deal with the waste and our study of the process we will begin to learn many of the important basic principles we need to understand to learn to recover and refine precious metals.

The Muck may have a few flakes of gold, but it is worthless comparing it, to what you can gain in by just spending your time learning how to deal with your toxic waste safely.

Spending our time studying we can learn to recover and refine gold and know where to find it.

Chasing gold flakes around with acids and electronic scrap, and making muck is just a very slow and hard way to learn how to get gold, that is if you can find it.


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## butcher (Oct 10, 2019)

Here we have a graph that can help us understand a little more of the process,

At the bottom of this graph, we see pH and numbers which indicate if the solution is acid or it is the opposite of an acid (basic or caustic) or more alkaline...
The lower the number the more acidic, the higher the number the more basic or alkaline the solution is.

Water is at pH 7, if we add acid we lower the pH down towards zero, if we add lime or NaOH we raise the pH number towards 14.

On the left of the graph, we see a value scale for the amount of metal concentration in milligrams per liter...

Within the chart we see metal ions dissolved in a solution, this chart will contain some of the metals you could be dealing with in recovery of scrap from electronics, but the chart does not show all of the metals involved...

So in a quick look at this chart, we see that all of these metals are more soluble in a more acidic solution, and the metal ion concentration goes down as the solution becomes more basic.

The metals are also all over the chart, there is no one pH where we can remove all of these metals from solution. 

Note, how the lead is still very soluble at a pH of 8.5 while at this same pH the copper is at its lowest solubility...
How silver can remain in a basic solution that will not hold other metal ions...

Copper in solution at a pH of 6 copper has a solubility of 20 mg/l and at a pH of 8.0, the solubility of the copper is 0.05 mg/l.

Note how some metals will precipitate as the solution becomes more basic and then redissolve again as the pH of the solution gets higher or even more basic, metals such as chromium and zinc are amphoteric, being soluble at both alkaline and acid conditions.

Chromium reaches its least theoretical chromium solubility of 0.08 at a pH of 7.5.
If both chromium and nickel are present a pH value that precipitates both ions must be chosen. It is common to utilize a pH of 9.0 – 9.5 to precipitate both metals.

With our study of dealing with the waste, we will learn more of how this can be helpful to not only dealing with our toxic solution but also gain valuable insights and more of an understanding of how these metals react in a recovery or refining proces...


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## Martijn (Oct 11, 2019)

As you follow butcher's very well put together step by step tutorial, please be so kind to take pictures and post what you are doing. It can become a very helpfull post for many like you. Referring to this post would guide them through the basic learning steps. 
Once you are done with that more steps and answers to your questions will follow, i am sure. Good luck. 

Knowlegde is priceless, treasure it


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## butcher (Oct 11, 2019)

That is how I learn, I get some kind of question in my head, Dang it now I want to find an answer, I look up and down, high and low, what do I find?

Questions, more questions, and I find many answers that I did not even know I had a question for, yes I finally found the answer to my question, but now I am looking for more answers.

I find more answers looking for the answers ----than most anyone who is just asking a question, we can answer his question and he goes home with one simple answer to his question, after getting home if he understands the answer, he may just be standing there what now that did not get me anywhere...

While I am out there looking and digging more answer, and more answers to my questions, I go home with more answers and a whole lot more questions to dig for tomorrow.

Ask a question get an answer. Now what?

Look for the answer, and you will find more questions along with that answer, and go home with more questions and answers...


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## GoldrecoveryNoob (Oct 17, 2019)

butcher said:


> While doing some study on dealing with waste, you will learn some of the basic principles.
> During this time the copper in the bucket will be undergoing a chemical reaction to recover any gold that can be recovered from the solution (that is if it can be reduced).
> 
> During your study of waste treatment you will learn of some of the very imprtant basic principles of recovering and of refining, one of which you have already started, by adding the clean bar of copper to the solution.
> ...



I was just re reading this post am I supposed to mix the Greg stuff back with the water?
Also I put the solution in the sun to heat up I tested it but it was still negative.


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## GoldrecoveryNoob (Oct 17, 2019)

How long would I have t keep the copper in there.


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## butcher (Oct 17, 2019)

I was just re-reading this post am I supposed to mix the Greg stuff back with the water?

At this point lets just dry out the "Greg stuff".

Also, I put the solution in the sun to heat up I tested it but it was still negative.

Good.

How long would I have t keep the copper in there?

The copper will consume excess or free acids or oxidizers, and if there were metals of value dissolved in solution the copper will dissolve to replace these metals, which will cement out of solution loosely onto the copper, and falling off as metal powders.
This is a contact process stirring now and then will help to help the metal ions in solution come into contact with fresh copper, it can also help to knock off any build-up of precious metal powders covering the copper...
How long well as with any chemical reaction, it will take as long as it takes. Much will depend on conditions, the composition of the solution, concentration, temperature, pH, how much free acid, if the solution is stirred, how clean the copper is and stays, exposed surface area, as other factors

If you brush off the copper and leave it in the solution for a while and check it again and find the copper is clean and shiny it has finished or is not reacting...
If after checking you find more black powders coat the copper you still have metals in solution.


I doubted you have values in solution, the copper will only react to any excess acid or valuable metal ions in solution, it will not dissolve any further after that.

You can leave the copper in the solution until you understand the next steps, Have you been reading about dealing with waste in the safety section? If so then we can move on to more steps, if not let us spend time studying so we can gain an understanding of what to do and what to expect...

After the copper has finished reacting, you can brush off any clinging black powder from the copper if there is any back into the vessel, leave it to settle overnight, and decant the liquid from the black powders or insoluble, do this by not disturbing the liquid if possible leaving the powders at the bottom, to filter.

You could add this filter to the "Greg stuff" you are drying out.

I do not expect you will have any values in solution but this will tell the story.

After you remove values from solution (If any) we could save this copper solution for recovery processes.

But we will recover the copper from the solution.
By what you are learning about when reading dealing with waste.

You may not have seen the copper reacting in the last step (if no values were in solution), but we will see a clearer reaction in our next step of cementing the copper from solution using a piece of rebar.

Where are the pictures?
Where are your questions you are getting as you study dealing with waste?


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## GoldrecoveryNoob (Nov 11, 2019)

Good Day Everyone so I have been putting the waste in a large container with copper but nothing happened as you said there is probably no excess acid. Now I have the grey muck and the scrap that still had on gold. I washed the grey muck with distilled water and filter( It is still like muck) and left it alone in a container. Now I washed the scrap that still had on gold with distilled water and the wash water was green(assuming the copper in the scrap reacted with the acid and made I guess green copper salts?). I wanna find out how to filter the green copper salts and deal with the grey muck now.


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## butcher (Nov 11, 2019)

Good day,
You can move forward any way you wish, and take advice from anyone you wish.

Before I go further have you been studying how to deal with waste?

If you have been then you should be gaining an understanding of where to go next.

So nothing happened when you added copper, can you explain why nothing happened, (besides maybe the acid was all reduced to salts), why was there no chemical reaction, why adding copper did not give a reaction...?

Spend some time on some more important things, let us look at dealing with the hazardous toxic waste we have generated so far.


Take the solution as you learned in your study of dealing with waste and put a clean bar of iron or steel in it. Observe what happens, tell me now is the acid all "used up" what is going on and why? Is there a chemical reaction now? Why? What happens?




We can use a couple of bases like NaOH, and lime, so you can look for a source of those while you are studying the lye we can use to help remove some of the chlorides from the muck, along with some other trash or salts of metals, we could also use an electric hot plate with a solid iron burner plate, and a Corningware casserole dish (pyro ceramic dish) with a lid.

Add the "Muck" to the casserole dish cover with water and heat it up (keep it below a boil).
Lower heat, as much as you can to keep the solution as hot as you can, and yet not have the solution actively moving, so we can let all of the insoluble settles, you may see some light fluffy white stuff that will easily move around and takes time to settle, this would be silver chlorides, give them time to settle. 
after everything that will have settled, we can decant the solution, but we want to do this keeping the wash water as hot as possible, move the wash water to another vessel, it may be clear but murky or may be colored from copper, after cooling you may see some needle-like crystals form in the wash water, that will be the lead chloride which is more soluble hot and only slightly soluble cold. You can reuse the cool wash water again to remove more lead. Continue these washes until you no longer get lead salts when the wash water is cooled...

Using what you have been studying in safety use your PPE and take other precautions...


Now with the muck in the dish on the hot plate I would cover with water and add about as much NaOH as you have "Muck" we will add just a little heat and stirring with a glass rod, fiberglass rod or similar, you may see the "Muck changing colors or getting darker. The caustic will help us to remove some of the chloride salts (from the "Muck") and some of the more amphoteric base metals... After stirring the powders well under low heat and keeping the powders crushed, the metal chloride salts are becoming metal oxides and hydroxides, again letting every settle we will decant.

We can use this caustic wash in our waste treatment later after the iron has done its chemistry...

Now we can dry out the 'Muck" preparing it for an oxidizing roast.

Keep up with your study, of dealing with waste, so that you can gain an understanding, and maybe keep your eyesight for a little longer...


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## Rotz (Nov 2, 2020)

butcher said:


> CuCl white will dissolve in HCl.
> 
> PbCl2 white to clear often needle-like crystals fairly insoluble in cold water becomes much more soluble in very hot water.
> 
> ...



White/gray dust coming when I process mixed stuffs like pin with plastic. and it is coming suddenly when I add a drop of distilled water.

Especially I have 2 gray powder,
when use nitric,
when use AP, 
It is almost looking same. 
I will try your metodology, 
I will take a little dust sample, 
I will try in water with room temperature, (not dissolve)
if not dissolve, hot water, (not dissolve)
if not dissolve, hcl & water with room temperature, (not dissolve)
if not dissolve, hot hcl & water (a little bit dissolve) Should I increase the amount of HCl 
if not dissolve I don't know how I proccess  
_
As I understood stannic chloride also not dissolve hot water or HCl. I need confirmation please.

"It might be tin oxides (metastannic acid) and then it will be hard to dissolve or filter." Göran 
I guesss this is my answer about my last sentence. I found from another page. _

Thank you for your helps.


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## rickbb (Nov 2, 2020)

Rotz said:


> when I process mixed stuffs like pin with plastic.



Problem number 1, don't process mixed stuffs. Each item has it's own simple method of recovery. When you mix them you make messes and lots of waste.


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## Martijn (Nov 2, 2020)

Rotz, tin paste or metastannic acid (grey) formed by nitric acid and tin is eliminated by roasting the slimes and leaching the tin oxide in HCL. 
Silver chloride is only to be expected in nitric when tapwater is used or not washing properly after AP. CPU ceramics can hold HCL if not roasted. 
Excess copper 1 chloride (white) in the AP process is dissolved by adding a bit HCL to the AP, air and time. Or test a bit from a filter in a test tube with HCL. It should dissolve very fast. 
Adding distilled water to used AP can push water insoluble copper 1 chloride out of solution and create a white cloud. Or are you adding it to a nitric solution?

Study a lot and test small. 

Avoid solder in any process. 
Martijn.


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## Rotz (Nov 3, 2020)

Martijn said:


> Rotz, tin paste or metastannic acid (grey) formed by nitric acid and tin is eliminated by roasting the slimes and leaching the tin oxide in HCL.



As I understood you mean 
1. seperate dust
2. burn (it converts to oxide)
3. dissolve in HCl



Martijn said:


> Silver chloride is only to be expected in nitric when tapwater is used or not washing properly after AP. CPU ceramics can hold HCL if not roasted.
> Excess copper 1 chloride (white) in the AP process is dissolved by adding a bit HCL to the AP, air and time. Or test a bit from a filter in a test tube with HCL. It should dissolve very fast.
> Adding distilled water to used AP can push water insoluble copper 1 chloride out of solution and create a white cloud. Or are you adding it to a nitric solution?
> 
> ...



Some of the pins can't seperate easyly so I just try to see what happen if I work mixed material. I can't remove all of the tin. Because I processed some of the wireless and little pcb parts like phone etc. They have tin everywhere. I guess it comes from tin (solder). 

After filtering, for the washing something remain in bunchner, I add distilled water. Then solution in erlenmeyer produce white dust. This is only valid for the nitric process. 

As I understood, the situation is different at AP, it is looking CuCl (copper chloride)

Is tin a problem just in nitric acid or the same problem applies to AP?


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## Martijn (Nov 3, 2020)

Separate dust? Just incinerate with filter and all solids together. 

Or your distilled water is containing Chlorides, or you are pushing some salt out of the nitric solution that is less soluble in water. Perhaps change the capture beaker/flask before rinsing? 

I have not had problems with small amounts of solder in AP, only Cu1CL forming after a while, which is just a sign of low HCL level, or Cu1CL forming faster than the oxygen can convert to Cu2Cl.

Cut as much as possible solder off. HCL can get expensive to treat PCB's


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## Rotz (Nov 3, 2020)

Martijn said:


> Separate dust? Just incinerate with filter and all solids together.
> 
> Or your distilled water is containing Chlorides, or you are pushing some salt out of the nitric solution that is less soluble in water. Perhaps change the capture beaker/flask before rinsing?
> 
> ...



%35 HCL 3$/5lt

Thank you for your support.


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## Martijn (Nov 3, 2020)

The margins on e-waste are small if you can process industrial style. As a hobby scrapping pcb's is very time consuming. Many have given up or moved on to other resources. 
Recognizing the valuable parts on pcb's and learning how to treat them separate is a rewarding hobby both in acquiring some gold and a lot of knowledge. You will not get rich from it and will have to treat a lot of waste chemicals with toxic metal salts. 

But having to treat whole piles of bare pcb's with HCL just to get the solder off to recover tiny amounts of PM's is cutting away from the small profit there is to be made in my opinion.
That is if you don't count the hours you will put in from start to end. 

How much e-waste are you planning to do? Just a bit or a steady supply?

Turning in the stripped and cut boards could leave you with the valuable parts to process and some cash from the scrapyard. The real value is in the components. The visible gold on pcb's (ENIG plating) is often much thinner compared to plated pins and contact fingers. Which is only microns thick. How much time and money are you willing you spend for a bit pm's? 

Please try to be clear about what process you used on which material when asking questions. It's not clear to me when you're talking about AP or HNO3. Gets confusing for me and new members can make wrong assumptions. 

For example: did you put cell phone boards in nitric? 

Martijn. 
Here is a link to get you on your way of studying the forum. 
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=28521

And: 
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=796
Have fun. Be safe.


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## Rotz (Nov 3, 2020)

Dear Marjtin,

Nobodyy dont work on this issue academically. I start small trial to learn as operational. All of the scrap dealer collect this items then sell to europe. Because no refinery in Tr. I want to proceed with small step than I will make my own business. I have supposed to be know the toxics, acids, wastes before start because I am chemist. I see your concern because I see somebody which you answer. They have nothing and they dont know anything. But I have still readed since 1 month here. Everyday I notice new topic. I force myself for to be patient. I bought a fume cupboard, hammer mill. I rented a workplace. I notice if you want to make money, I have to find cheap waste. Chemcal is very cheap and I can reach every chemical inluded CN. Of cource I dont use ) just I want to express my opportunity. I understood that depopulation and distmastling is very important. Then true process. I also reserching machine from china in this issue. However I research, I start this job oldschool and primitive style. But I promise myself about improve this situation. I hope I can be catch success. Firstly I want to keep strike a ledger. I like to learn and I am a skillful man. I am verygood about mecanic and electric. I improved myself. So I believe I will learn this business but I am not sure can I gain money. This is my story. I am consuming a time a lot. This forum is invaluable. Thank you. I will read the links thank you.


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