# DMG



## goldsilverpro (Mar 16, 2010)

Good price - even with the shipping!! Lifetime supply for total of $6.45

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dimethylglyoxime-10-grams-%28Chugaev%27s-Reagent%29_W0QQitemZ270544109709QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100312?IMSfp=TL100312164014r38695


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## Irons (Mar 16, 2010)

goldsilverpro said:


> Good price - even with the shipping!! Lifetime supply for total of $6.45
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Dimethylglyoxime-10-grams-%28Chugaev%27s-Reagent%29_W0QQitemZ270544109709QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100312?IMSfp=TL100312164014r38695



He's got 111 sales with 100% feedback. He sells other good things but was leery since he's in Syktyvkar, Komi republic, Russian Federation.

I ordered some, so we will see.

Talk about boondocks. He must have low overhead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komi_Republic


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## Scott2357 (Mar 16, 2010)

That's the guy I was talking about in this thread http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6769
I made an offer, he countered, so I'm getting 30g for $3.60+$5.00 shipping. Enough for three lifetimes for $8.60! :lol: ...Or to share with friends 8)


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## 2002valkyrie (Mar 17, 2010)

I have purchased from him about last November. If yours works let me know because I have mixed 2 batches so far and niether one seems to work on Pd. So I am still using stanous.


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## Scott2357 (Mar 17, 2010)

Hmmm.... Well the last mouse click to close the deal hasn't been done yet. Maybe I should think about it some more.


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## Harold_V (Mar 17, 2010)

DMG is difficult to dissolve, so that may be the reason you haven't enjoyed success. I used to boil mine for a prolonged period of time in order to get it in solution. 

Some time ago it was mentioned that it readily dissolves in alcohol, however. I don't have any specifics on the process, so if you still have some, give that a go. 

Working without DMG isn't very convenient. There are times when it's important to precipitate the palladium, so other values can be determined. The same thing applies to gold, which can be precipitated with a crystal of ferrous sulfate, then the solution tested with stannous chloride. With the gold down, other values are much easier to see. 

Harold


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## Irons (Mar 17, 2010)

2002valkyrie said:


> I have purchased from him about last November. If yours works let me know because I have mixed 2 batches so far and niether one seems to work on Pd. So I am still using stanous.



I have some very pure Nickel powder. When I get it, I will test the DMG on that. If it works on Nickel, it will surely work on Pd.


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## Scott2357 (Mar 17, 2010)

Yes, I believe the mix is 1% DMG in Methanol. Hence 10 grams truely is a lifetime supply for test purposes.


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## 2002valkyrie (Mar 17, 2010)

Maybe I did it wrong :?: Twice but I boiled it till it dissolved both times and the second time I used a procedure listed by Steve using Denatured Alcohol. It won't stay dissolved long, heck I thought about precipitating gold with it. If you get yours to work Irons please let me know. I was impressed by the DMG it comes packaged real nice in approximatly 10g sealed plastic sectioned packaging. See picture. :arrow:


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## Scott2357 (Mar 17, 2010)

Well if we can't get it to work it won't be from lack of trying. Irons, Platdigger and myself bought from this guy. I see some one has made an offer 50 g too. At that rate for the quantity available listed he'll be out soon. I'll bet he has a supplier though.

BTW- Valkyrie, did you try methanol? I see you bought 60 g, maybe you would like to sell some? How long does it take to arrive from Russia?


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## patnor1011 (Mar 18, 2010)

hehe that 50g that was me. I could not resist to have some as I want to do few tests with monolithics. I did offer for 50g for 5$. He replied and I got 50g for 5$+8.60$ postage to ireland. I have paid for that today and will let you guys know when I will get it.


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## 2002valkyrie (Mar 18, 2010)

Scott2357 said:


> BTW- Valkyrie, did you try methanol? I see you bought 60 g, maybe you would like to sell some? How long does it take to arrive from Russia?


Nope no methanol in my lab... Just the first four letters makes it sound hard to get. I had them copy my drivers license when I bought 8 gallons of sulfuric acid last month. I'm going to have to start buying from the chemical supply house in the big city. 
It took 2 weeks to come in after he said he shipped, which was amazing. You know it being white powder and all. As far as selling it, I can't sell what won't work for me. If I find a use for it and believe in it, then I will sell it but I tried it on good Pd and it was a dud. I prepared it according to Hoke so I'm not a believer in this batch.


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## Irons (Mar 18, 2010)

2002valkyrie said:


> Scott2357 said:
> 
> 
> > BTW- Valkyrie, did you try methanol? I see you bought 60 g, maybe you would like to sell some? How long does it take to arrive from Russia?
> ...



Gas line antifreeze is either anhydrous Methanol or isopropanol.


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## Scott2357 (Mar 18, 2010)

Valkyrie,

As far as sulphuric, try battery acid from o'reilly's auto parts. It's cheap 38% but all you have to do is boil to concentrate. I can send you a link to my cheap methanol source in Ala., pm me if you need it. They also have nitric, sulphuric, etc. but shipping on those are high.


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## Irons (Mar 18, 2010)

Scott2357 said:


> Well if we can't get it to work it won't be from lack of trying. Irons, Platdigger and myself bought from this guy. I see some one has made an offer 50 g too. At that rate for the quantity available listed he'll be out soon. I'll bet he has a supplier though.
> 
> BTW- Valkyrie, did you try methanol? I see you bought 60 g, maybe you would like to sell some? How long does it take to arrive from Russia?



We can do the best we can to validate the DMG. If it's a preparation issue, I think a solution can be worked out. :mrgreen:


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## gold4mike (Mar 18, 2010)

If you know any Go Kart racers near you many burn methanol. We paid $2.50 per gallon at our local track. Most dirt tracks for auto racing will have it as well, or you can check with the local racing parts supplier. You bring a jug and they'll fill it for a couple of bucks. You want the clear - no dye.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 30, 2010)

just got it yesterday. I got 50gram well packed in 11 days. :mrgreen:


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## Irons (Apr 5, 2010)

2002valkyrie said:


> I have purchased from him about last November. If yours works let me know because I have mixed 2 batches so far and niether one seems to work on Pd. So I am still using stanous.



Mine arrived Friday, about 2 weeks. It's good DMG.

I made a 1% solution in anhydrous Methanol (HEET gas line antifreeze in the Yellow bottle). The DMG dissolved in a few seconds except for a few larger crystals which took a few minutes. The solution was water clear.

I made a 1% NiCl2 solution by dissolving pure nickel powder in dilute HCl.

I took a few drops of the Nickel solution, put it in a test tube and diluted it with distilled water until there was just a faint color.

I added 3 drops of the DMG solution. There was no change.

I added Household clear Ammonia solution drop by drop. The first drop turned rose red and subsequent drops formed the classic rose colored flocculent reaction, a positive test for Nickel.


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## qst42know (Apr 5, 2010)

DMG functions the same for testing in straight alcohol?

If that's the case why struggle with water?

Is there a time when one might prefer one over the other?


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## lazersteve (Apr 5, 2010)

PGM ammonium chloride colored powders are not soluble in straight alcohol so they may not test properly if some water is not present. 

I see no other reason why water is needed. As long as your PGMs are dissolved in an aqueous solution already or you dissolve the test sample of colored powder in water before testing, I guess DMG in straight alcohol may be a better idea.

Steve


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## Irons (Apr 5, 2010)

lazersteve said:


> PGM ammonium chloride colored powders are not soluble in straight alcohol so they may not test properly if some water is not present.
> 
> I see no other reason why water is needed. As long as your PGMs are dissolved in an aqueous solution already or you dissolve the test sample of colored powder in water before testing, I guess DMG in straight alcohol may be a better idea.
> 
> Steve



It's much quicker to make and the test works very well.

I will try it tomorrow using anhydrous Isopropanol.


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## Harold_V (Apr 6, 2010)

qst42know said:


> DMG functions the same for testing in straight alcohol?
> 
> If that's the case why struggle with water?
> 
> Is there a time when one might prefer one over the other?


I would recommend dissolution in alcohol, with the addition of water. That way the solution won't be inclined to evaporate quickly. While I never tried the alcohol trick, I would think that a bare minimum, just enough to dissolve the prescribed amount, then the solution taken up with distilled water to the desired level of concentration. 

Harold


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## Irons (Apr 6, 2010)

More expensive isn't always better. Anhydrous Isopropanol is available as Iso-HEET gas line anti-freeze in the red bottle. It's about twice as expensive as the Anhydrous Methanol based HEET and doesn't work as well.
The first thing I noticed was that the DMG didn't dissolve as quickly or completely.
When added to the dilute Nickel solution, it immediately formed a milky suspension.
Adding the Ammonia gave a positive reaction but the color wasn't as intense and the solution remained milky.
My conclusion is that the anhydrous Methanol HEET (yellow bottle) is the solvent of choice. You can buy it almost anywhere in the US, although it may be a seasonal item in some stores. Wally World had a 4 pack on sale for $4.
Folks who reside elsewhere should be able to find an equivalent product. Check the ingredients on the label.


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## Lou (Apr 6, 2010)

Dissolve it in ethanol; 1%-5% w/v works fine as a test for nickel and palladium. Using this reagent is about as simple as it gets--Irons gives good instruction


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## Irons (Apr 6, 2010)

Lou said:


> Dissolve it in ethanol; 1%-5% w/v works fine as a test for nickel and palladium. Using this reagent is about as simple as it gets--Irons gives good instruction


I guess I'll have to try denatured EtOH tomorrow and report back. :mrgreen:


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 6, 2010)

The cheap 91% Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol sold almost everywhere might work.


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## Lou (Apr 6, 2010)

Should work even better looking at the structure. 

I'm astounded how cheap that DMG is... it's absurdly expensive from Aldrich!


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## Irons (Apr 6, 2010)

I tried the denatured EtOH and it also gave a milky solution, but not as bad as the Isopropanol.

I'm sticking with anhydrous Methanol. For a buck, you can buy enough Anhydrous Methanol to make a lifetime supply of DMG solution.

Keep it in a well sealed glass bottle, in a cool, dark place and it should last a very long time.


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## Oz (Apr 6, 2010)

I dissolve mine in 50% distilled water and 50% grain alcohol (190 proof) with mild warming. If you are worried about the alcohol interfering with some tests it is easy to remove. After you have dissolved the DMG in 50/50 H2O/ethanol, evaporate most of the alcohol off by reducing the volume 50%. It is a good idea to filter this before use whether you have removed the alcohol or not.


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## markqf1 (Apr 8, 2010)

Thanks Oz,
I'm glad to see that we're on the same page.
There are many ways to skin a cat. 8) 

Mark


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## Palladium (Apr 8, 2010)

markqf1 said:


> There are many ways to skin a cat. 8)
> 
> Mark



That's just wrong in sooooo..... many ways.


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## Scott2357 (Apr 12, 2010)

Finally got mine too after 4 weeks. Was beginning to get worried since most everybody got their's in about 2 weeks. Will mix a batch tomorrow and report back.


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## metatp (Nov 29, 2010)

Irons said:


> More expensive isn't always better. Anhydrous Isopropanol is available as Iso-HEET gas line anti-freeze in the red bottle. It's about twice as expensive as the Anhydrous Methanol based HEET and doesn't work as well.
> The first thing I noticed was that the DMG didn't dissolve as quickly or completely.
> When added to the dilute Nickel solution, it immediately formed a milky suspension.
> Adding the Ammonia gave a positive reaction but the color wasn't as intense and the solution remained milky.
> ...


Well, we don't seem to have HEET in South Florida. No Heet, but no snow either. That's ok with me. 

STP has a product that removes moisture, but no idea of the ingredients. I tried isopropyl, but it would not stay in solution. It dissolved when hot, but precipitated at room temp. I tried it several times. I also tried testing it when it was hot, but could not get much of the rose color for nickel, just very faint. Does the amount of nitric or HCL in solution effect the test? 

I will continue to look for HEET when I am in Central Florida.

Thanks,
Tom


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 29, 2010)

HTPatch said:


> Irons said:
> 
> 
> > More expensive isn't always better. Anhydrous Isopropanol is available as Iso-HEET gas line anti-freeze in the red bottle. It's about twice as expensive as the Anhydrous Methanol based HEET and doesn't work as well.
> ...



That is alcohol.


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## patnor1011 (Nov 30, 2010)

Alcohol...

http://www.ehow.com/list_6906881_types-alcohol-chemistry.html

http://www.chemguide.co.uk/organicprops/alcohols/background.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol

http://www.ehow.com/list_7230415_main-types-alcohol.html


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## butcher (Nov 30, 2010)

Thanks, patnor1011
them moonsine instruction's are a little too simple, need better recipee's :lol:


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## metatp (Apr 18, 2012)

I have an extra 8.5g of DMG powder that I can give someone that may need it. First one to request it and give me a mailing address can have it. I also have extra Nitric Acid, but won't mail it. If you are local to Pembroke Pines, FL, you can pick up a 2L bottle.

Regards,
Tom


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 18, 2012)

metatp,

PM sent.

Thank you!

Dave


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## metatp (Apr 18, 2012)

DMG was taken.

Thanks,
Tom


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## metatp (Apr 18, 2012)

I got a PM for two member and for some reason I am having problems sending PMs. I will try later, but I should be able to send some to both of you. It is difficult to dissolve. Use this thread to see how other members dissolve it.

Thanks,
Tom


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## NobleMetalWorks (Apr 18, 2012)

I PMed you, did you get it?

And thank you for the info about dissolving...


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## metatp (Apr 18, 2012)

SBrown said:


> I PMed you, did you get it?
> 
> And thank you for the info about dissolving...


Yes


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## NobleMetalWorks (Apr 18, 2012)

Thank you so much! Just let me know what I can pay you for it... =)


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## metatp (Apr 19, 2012)

No payment is necessary. If you want to give, just give to the forum or to Lazersteve's site.

Regrads,
Tom


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## NobleMetalWorks (Apr 19, 2012)

I surely will, and thank you again. If you need anything yourself please ask.


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 27, 2012)

I have to bump this thread to give thanks and recognition to *metatp*. 

He got 2 PMs regarding his DMG before he was able to post that it was gone. He sent what he had to SBrown. So did he tell me "Sorry, too late."? No! He came up with some more and sent it to me!! 8) 

That is above and beyond!

Thank you Tom!

Dave


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