# How to separate different metals



## coiote_25 (Apr 7, 2012)

Hi guy´s...

My name is Manuel, i´m from Portugal and i´m a goldsmith.

First of all, let me begin with a word of apology for my english, because it´s very rusty. So, if anything don't make any sense to you guy's, don´t panic...!!!

I decid to dissolved my old scrap gold; paladium and plate jewellery in AR and also i decid to add a few motherbords and cpu´s (electronic junk) that i have colect over the years, and now i have no idea how to separate them.

What i should do...? Can anyone help me, please...

Can you guy´s give me a step by step procedure...?

Thanks

Best regards


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## jimdoc (Apr 7, 2012)

coiote_25 said:


> Hi guy´s...
> 
> My name is Manuel, i´m from Portugal and i´m a goldsmith.
> 
> ...



You joined Sun Sept. 18, 2011 and haven't read the forum at all?

Jim


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## coiote_25 (Apr 8, 2012)

I Jim, thanks for your reply...but what i need is realy a big help here.
I know that í have made chea**.
Why are you giving criticism? Are you truly interested in helping me? 

I now how to precipitate the metals, but i don´t no what i precipitate first.

I have a bucket with 21,13 gal (80 l) with a solution that contains gold, palladium, silver, Copper, (Zinc, Tin and other non metals that become motherboard´s and cpu´s dissolution).

Can you help me please...?

Best regards


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## kurt (Apr 8, 2012)

coiote_25

First of all Jim is not criticizing you – he is making a point – in fact a couple of points

Point (1) you joined the forum almost 6 months ago & you clearly have not done any reading about how to recover &/or refine precious metals because if you had spent even one hour a day reading for that 6 months you would not have done what you have done in the first place. (put everything – including circuit boards together in AR) now you have a real mess!!!

Point (2) if you had done any reading at all in the time since you first joined you would see that this same question has been asked & answered a hundred times before so instead of asking – “how do I fix this problem” – you would instead be asking – “do I understand this to be the right procedure in the case of my problem”

Now you might say – I am to busy to be spending time reading & studying about precious metal recovery & refining I just want my question answered --- well then if you are to busy to take time to learn about it before you start into it – then I (& most likely other members) are to busy to spend time answering the same old question that has already been answered a hundred times before.

So coyote_25 --- what you need to do is down load & read Hokes book (a free down load here on the forum) as well as taking some time reading the forum. Then come back & ask if – “in your case” – “will this or that procedure work &/or do I understand this or that procedure right or not)

Kurt


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## kurt (Apr 8, 2012)

coiote_25

To help you understand the point I was making.

What you did here to start with (put “everything” in AR) was a BIG mistake. – In fact a very big mistake & a mistake that could have been avoided had you done some reading/studying & maybe even some question asking before starting out.

Now you have a mess – a BIG mess --- but it can be fixed

It’s not as easy as “just” dropping each metal out separately though – instead you are going to need to “recover” metals in general so that you can then start parting different metals out with different procedures that will then lead to being able to “refine” the different PMs.

But first you need to do a lot of reading & studying – first to get an understanding of what you did wrong here – so that second you can avoid making the same mistake in the future & third so you can then come back to this problem & fix it.

Put this problem on the shelf in a covered container – read study & ask questions about what you are reading & studying – run some new batches following specific instructions to specific case situations to learn specific processes – then come back to fix this mess.

And if you really want to learn refining – Hokes book is a MUST READ!!!

Kurt


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## coiote_25 (Apr 8, 2012)

Hi again...

in fact i do not do my homework, i mean first of all have study de Hook book and then try to refine the different metals.

But the thing is, that i have made the mistake a few months ago, in fact in past July. After that, i start googling anf see forum and videos on youtube, one after another, but i don't find the solution to my problem. Mean while, i have a car accident and i was in coma for three months and also i´ve brake a legg and a five ribs, and i past a few months in hospital try to recover my health first. Mean while i my dauhgter was born and i never came here again until yesterday...so i will try harder to fix my problem and i will search and read even more to recover the most precious metal i can. But tell me, is it possible?

Can i precipitate all the metals and then siphoning, wash it and melting everything and start over again to refine the different metals?

What do you guy´s thinking?

I'm sorry it this is poorly written and confusing but as you know i´m portuguese and the fact that my english is very bad and rusty complicates even more the procedure and the reading.

Thanks any way, any help will be appreciate it.

Best regards


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## steyr223 (Apr 8, 2012)

Hello everyone
Do the familiar tests in holks book they really help
Understand 1 thing
If you can actually put a cap on top your project put it on the shelf
as stated above ,do a couple of fresh batches successfully
Then came back and fixed this
you would jump leaps and bounds in experience compared to just getting your 
question answered.
also I don't believe you understand how long it would take
to answer your question on this form :shock:
Best regards 
steyr223


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## Geo (Apr 8, 2012)

cement all the values using copper. either a copper buss bar or clean copper pipe. put the copper in the solution for 2-3 days. after this, any gold, silver, palladium or platinum will be in a black powder on the bottom of the container. siphon the solution from this powder and test with stannous chloride to make sure all PM's have been removed, and then you can selectively dissolve the metals in the order they need to be addressed. after rinsing the powder in hot boiling water, place the powder in dilute nitric acid (50/50) and water and heat the solution. this will remove the silver and palladium.decant solution to a clean container leaving the remaining powder.process whats left in cool AR, this will remove the gold leaving the platinum behind and the last metal to process.

hope this helps.


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## coiote_25 (Apr 8, 2012)

Hi Geo,

thanks for your help.

I would do what you advice me as soon as possible, but tell me, what do you think to be the best pH to do this? 

Many many thanks...

Best regards to you guy's...


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## Westerngs (Apr 8, 2012)

I would go about this problem a little differently.

First, you have silver, gold, palladium platinum for sure?

If so, I would first evaporate the solution do remove the majority of the nitric. I would then dilute it with water and add small amount of hydrochloric acid. This would cause the silver to precipitate as silver chloride which can be filtered away and treated via the Karo process or some other process. Loook in the silver section of the forum.

I would then add sodium metabisulfite to precipitate the gold. The process is also here in the forum.

Lastly, I would either cement out the palladium and platinum together for further separation later. Or you can separate at this point, whatever your preference is.

All of these processes can be found in the forum.

A word of advice... If you decide to go this route, try the entire procedure on a small sample, half a liter or so, before you try it on the entire batch. That way if you run into any problems it will not make the mess you already have worse. I all goes well, do the entire batch. If things go wrong, cement is a better way.


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## Geo (Apr 8, 2012)

if you cement the whole batch,the PH should be on the low side of neutral.as a matter of fact, it should have enough acid already.

Westerngs makes a good point,but if you are unfamiliar with the processes, cementation is a sure way of retrieving all the values and then you can start over and do it correctly.


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## butcher (Apr 8, 2012)

“Zinc, Tin and other non metals that become motherboard´s and cpu´s dissolution.”


The above mixed with your jewelry gold in an aqua regia solution?

These are trouble makers, and doing whole circuit boards may have cost you money, I hope you did not throw away the materials you added to this solution in the beginning, as that may very well be where the valuable metals are at right now, you may have already cemented them out onto remaining copper under layer of the circuit boards, or you may have precipitated them out when zinc(zinc replacing the valuable metals in solution), , depending on how much solder some of the gold can be locked up in solution as colloids in solution with the tin.
How easy does this solution filter?

you could already have cemented the values out especially if these were whole circuit boards you treated, the values could have cemented out onto remaining metals in the circuit boards, (under solder mask, in between layers of fiberglass, or other places where acid can not reach well and elemental base metal or copper remained un-dissolved), you could find you did not leach as much valuable metal as you think, you could have even of lost some of the values from the jewelry cemented into circuit boards.

Filter, save filter, test solution with stannous chloride, if positive for values, then 
cement them on copper, test solution for values with stannous chloride when no more powders form on copper.

Study there is so much to learn, reading Hokes book could have saved you money.


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## kurt (Apr 9, 2012)

We need to back up a bit here (or at least I would)

First of all I would assume after sitting as long as this has there are solids settled in the bottom & possibly crystals formed – The solids &/or crystals could be were values are tied up (along with non values) 

So the first thing I would do is siphon/decant the majority of the solution off the solids (this would include crystals “if” they have formed)

If there are crystals dissolve them (along with any other solids) with hot distilled water – then filter out remaining solids – wash solids out of filter & put in jar with water (we will deal with these later & they are still going to be acidic yet so don’t dry) dry the filter & set aside – add filtered solution to decanted solution.

The solution --- at this point I would not worry about doing a stannous test as the solution is so dirty a stannous test is going to be unreliable. I would then cement with iron instead of copper - & yes – iron is going to pull down all the unwanted garbage along with the values – but – this is what I have found --- in a solution this dirty – copper will not pull down all of the values – on the other hand – if you use iron – as the garbage cements out – it helps (assists) in cementing out the values.

The values co-deposit with the fine particles of copper (& other base metals) being cemented out by the iron. The cementing takes less time & settles better. (doing this will actually assist in pulling down most – if not all colloidal that may have formed) 

Lets get this far – then we can start dealing with procedures to get rid of base metals that should have been dealt with in the beginning.

Kurt


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## Harold_V (Apr 9, 2012)

coiote_25 said:


> Can i precipitate all the metals and then siphoning, wash it and melting everything and start over again to refine the different metals?


I can tell you how to recover the values, but you're going to have to read and understand the refining process before you'll be able to refine what you recover. Do NOT expect readers to hold your hand through that process. 

You should test your solution with stannous chloride. Make sure you have values before you attempt anything. You may not have, especially considering you have added a lot of base metal, which, as has already been stated, was a huge mistake. 

Assuming you find values present, insert copper pieces in the solution. That should start cementing the values, but will leave all of the base metals behind, still in solution. Do NOT discard any of the solids that are likely to be in the container---for they may well contain values as well. 

It is VERY important that you have stannous chloride. If you do not, do not attempt the recovery. In fact, if you don't have, don't even come back asking until you do have. Without it, there's no way you can tell where you are, and if you're accomplishing your mission, or when it's completed, assuming you have values. 

When the solution tests barren, allow all of the solids to settle well, and siphon off the now barren solution. Rinse the solids well, and remove all traces of the black precipitate from any copper that remains. The black you see will be the values. When the solids have been well rinsed, so rinse water shows no color change, dry the material and put it in storage until you understand how to refine. 

Harold
Edit:
I took note that you have been advised to cement with scrap steel. If you provide enough copper, you WILL effect a full recovery of values without dragging down all of the copper. The smaller the amount of copper used, the slower will be the reaction---so if you have only a little, expect it to take days. I would recommend you avoid cementing the copper unless you have no other options. 

The advice to get all crystallized materials back in solution is dead on. You may be able to do that by simply heating the solution and stirring well. Add a little more water, so it can't grow crystals again if you do. 

Remember to not discard anything that's solid----for you have no idea where the values are.


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## coiote_25 (Apr 10, 2012)

Thank´s guy´s i will do my homework. I will read the Hook book as soon as possible and then try to fix the big mistake that i´ve done. However, as i say before on my first post, i´m no expert in english and as a matter of fact it´s very rusty, and what i know, i´ve been learning here and there on the web. So, i´will have very difficults to understand the Hook´s book, because demand specialized technical linguistic knowledge.

I hope you guy´s can give me a big hand here.

Thank´s for everything.

Best regards


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## jimdoc (Apr 10, 2012)

coiote_25 said:


> So, i´will have very difficults to understand the Hook´s book, because demand specialized technical linguistic knowledge




Have you tried this version?








Hoke Portuguese Brazil Refining Precious Metals


Hoke Portuguese Brazil needs proper formatting and spell check. Google docs open to public https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0up4cIOrr0rOTk0ZmU1NzMtMzdiYS00NzFhLThjODItOTRhMGFjYmI2YmFm




goldrefiningforum.com





Jim


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## Nadeem (Jan 5, 2023)

Geo said:


> cement all the values using copper. either a copper buss bar or clean copper pipe. put the copper in the solution for 2-3 days. after this, any gold, silver, palladium or platinum will be in a black powder on the bottom of the container. siphon the solution from this powder and test with stannous chloride to make sure all PM's have been removed, and then you can selectively dissolve the metals in the order they need to be addressed. after rinsing the powder in hot boiling water, place the powder in dilute nitric acid (50/50) and water and heat the solution. this will remove the silver and palladium.decant solution to a clean container leaving the remaining powder.process whats left in cool AR, this will remove the gold leaving the platinum behind and the last metal to process.
> 
> hope this helps.


2 
3 days in enough?????


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## Martijn (Jan 6, 2023)

Read the whole thing: 


Nadeem said:


> 2
> 3 days in enough?????


with some agitation, probably yes. 
But it also says: _"siphon the solution from this powder and *test with stannous chloride* to make sure all PM's have been removed"_ 
so it could be enough. but test to be sure. Always.


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## AuggieDog (Monday at 10:30 AM)

jimdoc said:


> You joined Sun Sept. 18, 2011 and haven't read the forum at all?
> 
> Jim


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