# Ever breath silver fume from melting ?



## Dlog Renim (Jul 21, 2012)

Hi all..

So from melting a jewel saying 925 mexico (lass than a gram) no color fume or smell.

what does it do ?

I am asking because i did the mistake.. i gave a call to poisoning center.. they told me my exposure was not long enough.. outside with wind.. the piece dint melt.. it just turned shiny. It started at my ears tip.. like needle. than it went down to my toe.. little bit confuse and dizzy ! I stop and went inside with a cold towel and tried to calm down. Gave a call to anti poison and my last problem was . i am a guy who make panic attack and get scare really easy.. usually i am very careful, i dont know what really happen.. i think i was to tired to think of a simple precaution.. i did outside with smallest piece i could.. my judgement stopped there.. really dint taught about a transparent fume odorless.

So at hospital i was good.. all my vital sing are good and stable.. they gave me fresh pure oxygen and a pill to calm down my panic attack.. now it been about 8hrs from this episode.. i feel not to bad.. but really tire.. cant wait for kid to go bed LOL

next purchase : a close respirator ! lolol

I laugh, but i swear it is just because i try to make this funny even it if not.. I dint like the experience.. and since im scare about anything i dont know.. well i tink i will be way more scare now about acid and reaction.. i have a decision to take.


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## publius (Jul 21, 2012)

I am not a doctor or any kind of medical professional. Could it be Rhodium? I understand it is unpleasant to deadly...


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## Dlog Renim (Jul 21, 2012)

well poison center and doctor told me that i was not enough expose for a long time.. and the ring dint really melt.. and i can see some color change at the tick part of it.. like copper color ?


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## Dlog Renim (Jul 21, 2012)




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## NobleMetalWorks (Jul 21, 2012)

Test your jewelry before you process it. If you plan on destroying it, then there is no reason why you shouldn't use a file and file deep into the metal to insure that it isn't plated, and is in fact solid. Never blindly trust hallmarks, there is a lot of fraud, and a lot of fake material.

A lot of the new silver jewelry coming out of China that is silver plated, uses a base metal that might be a mix of many different metals, some of which you would not want to vaporize or otherwise process as solid metal. 

China Silver Plating is often Rhodium plated on top, the silver layer is so thin that it would rub off and show the base metal quickly, the Rhodium plating prevents this for a time. About 2 years ago I had a meeting with a Chinese supplier of inexpensive jewelry, of the type and quality that is sold on HSN. At the time I didn't purchase even a sample lot because I didn't like the idea that the base metals might have cadmium in it.

With all that being said, the symptoms you are describing could be caused by a panic attack. I am not saying that is what you were experiencing for sure, but that is what it sounds like to me. When you have a panic attack and hyperventilate, you take in and expel oxygen too fast for your lungs to properly process it. So your body becomes starved for oxygen, your heart rate elevates, and the tips of your extremities might start to tingle because of the lack of oxygen. Also you will become dizzy because your brain isn't receiving the oxygen needed. Keep a paper lunch bag close at hand, in your pocket, it folds up easily and can be taken out, and used, without much effort. Concentrate on breathing in and out slowly, into the bag so that you are re-breathing what you expelled. This will help with hyperventilating.

I know, funny I should mention this on this forum, but it happens. It's better to be safe than sorry, so if for whatever reason you are feeling this way at all, it's better to move far enough away from your reaction regardless if it's being caused by gas, or a panic attack. Either could cause a person to pass out, and if you do so near your reaction, it could be disastrous.

Scott


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## Dlog Renim (Jul 21, 2012)

I deal with panic attack for a long time.. and most of what happened to me.. look really like a panic attack.

Most of the time (with my medication) i feel really well. But when i get those panic attack i usually have signal first.. like diarrhea, shakes, swelling, confuse.. when this happen i do almost what you say with the brown bag.. but i dont use it. and usually the panic attack get away fast.

What happen today seem to be like got a little ''buzz'' from what ever was in there.. and than both came togeter.. that is what i told the doctor.. i am not sure on what i am ''high'' right now.. the fume, the panic attack, or the medic i took to calm down (ativan)

If some one wanna make some test on this one.. i can send it .. the only thing.. what ever happen with.. ( i dont care of the color or physic looking ) i want it back .. ill pay shipping back and forward ( even in dust lol ) it goes in my dad Urne.. just want to put it back there


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## Harold_V (Jul 22, 2012)

Check that ring with a magnet. 

Harold


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## Dlog Renim (Jul 22, 2012)

did that.. nothing happen


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## Harold_V (Jul 22, 2012)

That's good news. 
Do you have nitric? File a deep notch with the corner of a file, then apply a single drop. What happens?

Harold


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## Palladium (Jul 22, 2012)

Dlog Renim said:


> it goes in my dad Urne.. just want to put it back there



Could you elaborate on that one?


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## Dlog Renim (Jul 22, 2012)

Palladium yes with pleasure 

So my dad (52 years old) died really quick from Bones cancer (about 3 years ago). My dad was a wunderfull man. But he had some default to ... He was hanging with wrong people if you see what i mean. When last miles came to him, he game me that ring with no really explication. It is a ring from the ''clan''. When he left us.. all i had from him was that ring. He did the best move he could before leaving, to give his body to science. Not to long ago i receive is ashes from University who made some search on is cancer. So now my dad is in my living room in a Tupperware because i don't have the money to berry him.

So this ring.. from who it come is kind of important to me.. But what that ring represent is a other thing.. so thats why i wish to put the ring back with my dad ashes. Melted, crushed,.. i will prefer to see the ring like that than a BIG eagle and some special marking at the bottom. Only mysterious about that ring.. are the number punches in the back. Probably for a treasure i will never put the hand on.

He must be laughing at me, looking at me trying to melt is ring and get sick HAHAHA.


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## Irons2 (Jul 22, 2012)

Sorry about your Dad. 52 is too young to die.

Urn to put ashes in. 

Mexican Silver is often cut with Cadmium.

I know that feeling. If I even get a whiff of PGM solutions, I can feel a panic attack coming on within 15 or 20 minutes. My body has be come so sensitized that I have to be very careful when working with PMs in solution.

One thing I learned in Organic Chemistry: Stay away from Organic Chemicals. My Organic Chemistry Prof. died of multiple Cancers at 37. When they opened him up, the Surgeon just sewed him back up and when he awoke, he was told to go home and settle his affairs. 3 Months later, he was dead.


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## Dlog Renim (Jul 22, 2012)

so from what i see.. it was more a panic attack than a reaction to the fumes from trying to melt ?

But in other words.. does pure silver make fume that can hurt ? 

Because if so.. i wont try to equip myself for melting silver..


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## ericrm (Jul 22, 2012)

Dlog Renim said:


> so from what i see.. it was more a panic attack than a reaction to the fumes from trying to melt ?
> 
> But in other words.. does pure silver make fume that can hurt ?
> 
> Because if so.. i wont try to equip myself for melting silver..



be realistic EVERYTHING YOU DO even just handling board without glove(no acid- just the board)is bad for you.......
you must do exactly the opposit - equip yourself to protect you...


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## Dlog Renim (Jul 22, 2012)

i mean.. wont equip myself for melting the silver. I don't have any space for a fume hood.. I dont say i will never get equip.

But be sure i wont try to melt more of this on my balcony with a propane torch.. I will concentrate my effort and money on something i know i can handle or deal with ..

For now i will keep reading my hoke book ( doing is translation so i can understand 100%) 
Also i will keep trying yo get some material to work with

And probably buy myself a nice oxygen respirator mask .. since i know my body is really reactive to any king of strong product !


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## Geo (Jul 22, 2012)

silver shouldnt smoke when melted. theres another metal involved. dissolve it in nitric acid and cement it back out on copper. you will have your dust and the ring will be gone.


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## Westerngs (Jul 22, 2012)

All metals, if vaporized and inhaled can cause metal fume fever. Symptoms are much the same as experienced by dlog renim.

But the ring looks like it didn't really melt much, so there was probably not a large enough exposure to cause metal fume fever.

Anyway, be careful when you melt stuff, as someone else already mentioned, some silver alloys contain cadmium, and those fumes are very toxic.

Be safe.


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## Lou (Jul 22, 2012)

Silver has a significant vapor pressure too, so when you melt it, some of it goes up in smoke!


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## Palladium (Jul 22, 2012)

http://emj.bmj.com/content/19/3/268.long :?:


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## Dlog Renim (Jul 22, 2012)

tank you for the link palladium

from what i understand, some people can be longer under these certain condition, because their body adapted to these MFF.

I guess mine is really fragile !!

Not a good feeling.. i guess that is why i cant paint my house by myself, unless there is a GOOD ventilation or a short exposition.. fuel car gas make me the same thing.. when i put some in my car.. some time i get weird there to. 

Next step.. oxygen tank lol


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## kadriver (Aug 13, 2012)

When I first began working with silver I had an experience that hurt me.

I was used to working around hot metal, brazing, welding, and heating of metal during my career in the Navy.

I never used any breathing protection or suffered any ill effects that I could detect.

After cementing some silver (when I first began refining) I was melting some silver with a torch and melt dish inside my shop.

I did not use any breathing protection and thought I would be fine - it smelled the same as any other molten or hot metal smelled.

The next day I was in bed all day long with flu like symptoms - I remember the fumes from the molten silver rising into my face and nostrils as I breathed.

Today I always use cross ventilation by opening two doors, and I wear a particle respirator with double filters installed.

So far - no more bad reactions to fumes.

kadriver


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## lazersteve (Aug 13, 2012)

It's called metal fume fever and can occur when melting metals in a closed area.

GSP has a story somewhere about a friend who loved to what the silver melt over the furnace porthole and ended up dead. NOt sure of the exact details, but I believe Chris stated he thought it was from the silver vapors. He warned me back then about melting silver with poor ventilation.

Regardless of how much fun working with these metals seems to be, one must never lose sight of the inherint dangers involved with the processes. Besides melting metals, be extra careful of PGMs, nickel solutions, lead solutions, cobalt solutions, cyanide solutoins, silicon and other dust, and many more hazards of the recovery and refining workplace. 

Steve


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## Geo (Aug 14, 2012)

we are definitely our own worst enemies. the things we do to ourselves is and should be illegal. i am the cause for my illness and it makes me feel bad advising people to do things that i know will hurt them. the only consolation in this is that im able to pass along as much safety knowledge as i have. if i dont give advise about how to safely do the processes, the person may follow unsafe directions found on the internet.


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## lazersteve (Aug 14, 2012)

Safety should always be your number one concern. Many people research how to recover a precious metal, but never think to research the other hazards they will encounter in the process. This is exactly why I put a post on safety in the Guided Tour... I wonder how many people actually go to the safety link?

Steve


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## pugle1 (Oct 12, 2012)

lazersteve said:


> Safety should always be your number one concern. Many people research how to recover a precious metal, but never think to research the other hazards they will encounter in the process. This is exactly why I put a post on safety in the Guided Tour... I wonder how many people actually go to the safety link?
> 
> Steve



I'm new to the forum, and new to this hobby. I've been reading, researching and studying all for this very reason. I work in the chemical industry (mainly hydrocarbon solvents and esters / ketones and such) but I've been in my line of work for over 25 years. I'm the kind of person that is always asking questions in order to learn more. Much of the advice and comments read in this thread are common sense and are good to heed. At work I had a bad experience with zinc oxide powder (used mainly as a white paint pigment). After driving down a particularly bumpy road with several pallets of 22kg bags of this stuff in the back of my truck, the trailer was foggy with the dust produced. Breathing that fine dust in sure lead to a strong bout of "welder's fever" ... not pleasant at all. The MSDS said that the symptoms I was exeperiencing were typical .... the same as would be experienced breathing in zinc fume from a hot process. 

I agree ..... SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY!!! .... short cuts are never a good thing.

My 2 cents worth. Thanks folks for all the great tips and info....


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