# DROPPING PALLADIUM WITH CHLORINE



## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Hi, I have a queastion :
I have some silver palladium alloy contacts from relay(a lot from a USSR phone central) this from photo,
I dissolve this in nitric and drop the silver with HCl and after I add some urea and ammonium chloride to check platinum if is present (negative) I check the solution with sncl and the colour is turn in brown black(this mean possitve for palladium) and I try to bubble some chlorine gas in solution to drop palladium and is not happen nothing (I DONT CONCENTRATE THE SOLUTION AND I DISOLVE THE CONTACTS WITH THAT BASE METAL FROM PHOTO WICH I BELIEVE IS NOT COPPER and I try to drop with alluminium and form a dark grey slug)
Trying to drop palladium with chlorine if the solution contain base metals is a problem?
What to make to get the palladium out from solution (I don't have access to DMG and sodium chlorate and formic acid , I have only 12.5%ammonia)?
Dropping with alluminium from that solution and after boil the slug in in hcl and dissolve back in small amount of nitric and try again to bubble chlorine(after denox) will work to get red brick palladium salt ?


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

A lot back and forth here. 
Dropping with Aluminum is never a good idea if you suspect base metals.
It will drop all, better use copper which will drop only PMs.

One place you say you try to drop with Ammonium Chloride, next you say you have 12.5% Ammonia.
Do you have both or only one?


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## Palladium (Aug 10, 2022)

I had some of those years ago from some rotary switching circuits for Bell South. It was a good find considering they paid me to haul it off! If i remember right it's about a 1/4 gram for contact head. I sold mine. It was a long time before i even found refining. Somebody else will have to help you with the chemistry though.


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

I have ammonium chloride 99% 1kg and 4 litre 12,5% ammonia


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Palladium said:


> I had some of those years ago from some rotary switching circuits for Bell South. It was a good find considering they paid me to haul it off! If i remember right it's about a 1/4 gram for contact head. I sold mine. It was a long time before i even found refining. Somebody else will have to help you with the chemistry though.


what 25% palladium content for each had contact?


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## Palladium (Aug 10, 2022)

A 1/4 gram in weight for each contact if it was separated from the base metal.
Mine were from the 60's and were 95% Pd 5% Ag if i remember.


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

I have some copper bars but not big the dimensions is like two fingers and is plated with stannous( wich can I remove with nitric bath) is good for cementing?
I READ ON THE FORUM USING COPPER FOR CEMENTING PALLADIUM IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE MAKE SOME OXIDE ON COPPER AND AFTER THE DROPPING IS STOP


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Palladium said:


> A 1/4 gram in weight for each contact if it was separated from the base metal.
> Mine were from the 60's and were 95% Pd 5% Ag if i remember.


this contain a lot of silver I will be happy to be around 10-20%palladium


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

AND RETURN TO MY PROBLEM TRYING TO BUBBLE CHLORINE IN PD SOLUTION WICH CONTAIN BASE METALS IS A PROBLEM?


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## Palladium (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> this contain a lot of silver I will be happy to be around 10-20%palladium


Dam! That sucks! But if you have enough of them it will add up!


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

is have arround 360 relays


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

but only around 250 are full with contacts


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

I collect around 1kg of material from all


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> I have some copper bars but not big the dimensions is like two fingers and is plated with stannous( wich can I remove with nitric bath) is good for cementing?
> I READ ON THE FORUM USING COPPER FOR CEMENTING PALLADIUM IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE MAKE SOME OXIDE ON COPPER AND AFTER THE DROPPING IS STOP


Stop shouting please.
Just a question, how much refining have you done and what kind of facilities do you have?
Cementing PGMs need to be done in a proper way with a lot of stirring.


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> AND RETURN TO MY PROBLEM TRYING TO BUBBLE CHLORINE IN PD SOLUTION WICH CONTAIN BASE METALS IS A PROBLEM?


Shouting again.
Brown is not Pd it’s one of the things that is called false positive.
Can you post a picture if your test?


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

Check on you tube for Sreetips.
He have a good video on bubbling chlorine through a Pd solution.


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Stop shouting please.
> Just a question, how much refining have you done and what kind of facilities do you have?
> Cementing PGMs need to be done in a proper way with a lot of stirring.


I refine a lot of silver and gold ,PGM never, I HAVE BASE CHEMICAL ( HCl,sulfuric,ammonia,ammonium chloride,pmb,SMB and I don't have stirrer but I can make something for stirring in solution when is cementing on copper


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Shouting again.
> Brown is not Pd it’s one of the things that is called false positive.
> Can you post a picture if your test?


is not brown is black when I was add a lot of sncl directly in main solution become darck brown black


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> is not brown is black when I was add a lot of sncl directly in main solution become darck brown black


and now I don't have any sncl because im not in my house


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Shouting again.
> Brown is not Pd it’s one of the things that is called false positive.
> Can you post a picture if your test?


believe me , I make a lot of tests on stuff wich contain palladium an the test is same black ,now I don't have any pictures.


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Shouting again.
> Brown is not Pd it’s one of the things that is called false positive.
> Can you post a picture if your test?


become dark brown black when I add all sncl (wich I prepared ) directly in main solution makeing a vortex dark brown black


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Check on you tube for Sreetips.
> He have a good video on bubbling chlorine through a Pd solution.


I know hot to bubble chlorine but I ask if I can bubble in a solution with base matala inside


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

RIGHT NOW IN LAST MINUTE I can get formic acid 85% and with this will be easy to get palladium out from solution with base metals?????


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> is not brown is black when I was add a lot of sncl directly in main solution become darck brown black


If you put stannous directly into solution you will convert any PGM/Gold int colloidal metal.
Which mean you will have to dissolve again , because now it is metal not an ionic solution.
This is how the different metals look in stannous by the way.
Of course if is very concentrated it goes into the blackish region of color.


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> I know hot to bubble chlorine but I ask if I can bubble in a solution with base matala inside


Have you looked at the process from Sreetips?
He has it more or less all there.


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> If you put stannous directly into solution you will convert any PGM/Gold int colloidal metal.
> Which mean you will have to dissolve again , because now it is metal not an ionic solution.
> This is how the different metals look in stannous by the way.
> Of course if is very concentrated it goes into the blackish region of color.


it was just a sample I don't need the palladium from that sample


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> RIGHT NOW IN LAST MINUTE I can get formic acid 85% and with this will be easy to get palladium out from solution with base metals?????


Formic acid is not used to drop the Pd but to convert the Pd salts to Pd black/powder.


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Have you looked at the process from Sreetips?
> He has it more or less all there.


yes is a good way to get pure palladium, he extra refine the palladium in final dissolving the red brick in ammonium and drop again with HCl and after calcinated


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> it was just a sample I don't need the palladium from that sample


One never know when people say put Stannous into solution.
If you look at the image I sent, you see they have used cotton buds.
We recommend either that or paper strips.
If the test is too dark, dilute by double and try again.


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> yes is a good way to get pure palladium, he extra refine the palladium in final dissolving the red brick in ammonium and drop again with HCl and after calcinated


As far as I know there are no issue with the base metals.
But check the video thoroughly and search the forum. It is all here.


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Formic acid is not used to drop the Pd but to convert the Pd salts to Pd black/powder.


I see on YouTube in some clips he dissolve the contacts silver palladium alloy with copper ,recover the silver and after in dirty solution with base metal he add sodium carbonate and after formic acid and get the palladium


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> One never know when people say put Stannous into solution.
> If you look at the image I sent, you see they have used cotton buds.
> We recommend either that or paper strips.
> If the test is too dark, dilute by double and try again.


yes yes the colour don't was brown that greenis but more darker I make a confusion with that greenish dark colour believeing is brown


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> yes yes the colour don't was brown that greenis but more darker I make a confusion with that greenish dark colour believeing is brown


and for platinum I know that orange , I have platinum contacts and some diode with wires and I test them


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> I see on YouTube in some clips he dissolve the contacts silver palladium alloy with copper ,recover the silver and after in dirty solution with base metal he add sodium carbonate and after formic acid and get the palladium


Formic acid is usually used on pure powders to convert it to metal.
Not drop all.
Better and cheaper with cementing then.
If you don’t have stirrer use an aquarium pump and pump air bubbles in the solution.

But seriously there are several things we ask from user here.
Study C.M. Hokes book.
Search and research the forum
Make plan that includes how you treat your waste.

Be aware that the salts of PGMs are very toxic and proper safety gear and rules must be followed.

Edit for spelling


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## Golddigger76 (Aug 10, 2022)

Also for PGM,'s make sure that your solutions are as concentrated as much as possible, I evaporate mine with heat after dropping silver with salt/water or Hcl.
Several times I tried to cement onto copper from catalytic converter acid leach and even with air bubbling in platinum and palladium will cement onto the copper bar like it is being plated instead of being dislodged by the air.


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## kurtak (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Have you looked at the process from Sreetips?
> He has it more or less all there.


Could you provide a link - I have not seen that one but certainly would like to see it

Kurt


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## kurtak (Aug 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> *Formic acid is not used to drop the Pd* but to convert the Pd salts to Pd black/powder.





Yggdrasil said:


> Formic acid is usually used on pure powders to convert it to metal.
> *Not drop all*.


Per the bold print - actually yes you can use formic acid to drop Pd direct from a Pd solution

It requires Ph adjustment (with sodium carbonate) as well as getting the ORP right long with heat

I believe 4metal posted a number of years ago the proper Ph - ORP & temp

here is a video by OwlTech showing how it is done - though he does not actually use Ph &/or ORP testing he simply uses chem reaction indicators when doing his chem additions - & the temp plays a critical roll

you need to move up to "about" the 19 minute mark - everything before that is about getting to the Pd solution for dropping the Pd with formic acid (& sodium carbonate)



You can use the same formic process for silver & as well (I believe) Pt --- not sure about gold or other PGMs

If you have Ag/Pd/Pt all in the same solution it well drop all of them so it's not selective in that way

It does not drop copper & metals above copper though if you over do the sodium carbonate (Ph adjust) you are likely to get copper & other metals to come down as carbonates

Kurt


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## kurtak (Aug 10, 2022)

Golddigger76 said:


> Several times I tried to cement onto copper from catalytic converter acid leach and even with air bubbling in platinum and palladium will cement onto the copper bar like it is being plated instead of being dislodged by the air.


Two possibilities why this has not worked for you (actually three)

1) you where working with very concentrated solution

2) your bubbler was not providing aggressive enough agitation so you were not getting a good "strong" flow of the solution over the surface of the copper

3) combination of the above two

Edit to add one more thing --------

You MUST have the bubbler (agitation) going BEFORE you put the copper in the solution !!!

If you put the copper in the solution - & then turn the bubbler on - what happens is as soon as you put the copper in (without agitation) the PGMs in fact plate to the surface of the copper - & once you have that PGM plating on the surface of the copper- the solution can no longer get to the copper which then shuts down the cementing process

ALWAYS start your agitation before putting your copper in 

Kurt


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## kurtak (Aug 10, 2022)

Cementing PGMs is a "bit" more difficult then cementing gold or silver

However - *when properly done* - it will must certainly cement PGMs & do so with great success - *when properly done*

Aggressive agitation & good strong flow of the solution over the copper are key to it working properly

It has been discussed on this forum many times but here are two of the best discussions about it

If you follow these instructions you should not have a problem cementing PGMs with copper









Fuzz Button Interconnects, need some advice


okay, back a while ago, I found a bunch of fuzz button interconnects... like the ones from this thread: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=16018&hilit=fuzz+button&start=20 after doing some research on them, I was figuring on Be/Cu/Au wire was most likely what I was dealing...




goldrefiningforum.com













When In Doubt, Cement It Out


When In Doubt, Cement It Out This is advice I often give to new members who find they've created a bit of a mess, and they're wondering how to recover their values (gold, silver, PGMs, etc.). Perhaps they've followed a process they've seen on YouTube that left out some important details...




goldrefiningforum.com





Kurt


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

kurtak said:


> Cementing PGMs is a "bit" more difficult then cementing gold or silver
> 
> However - *when properly done* - it will must certainly cement PGMs & do so with great success - *when properly done*
> 
> ...


Thanks Kurt!


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 10, 2022)

kurtak said:


> Per the bold print - actually yes you can use formic acid to drop Pd direct from a Pd solution
> 
> It requires Ph adjustment (with sodium carbonate) as well as getting the ORP right long with heat
> 
> ...



Thanks, I didn’t know that.
I have only seen it used on pure salts/ solutions.


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## mythen10 (Aug 10, 2022)

kurtak said:


> Per the bold print - actually yes you can use formic acid to drop Pd direct from a Pd solution
> 
> It requires Ph adjustment (with sodium carbonate) as well as getting the ORP right long with heat
> 
> ...



THIS IS WHAT I SEARCH a lot of time a simple way to get palladium out from dirty solution(with base metals) BUT NOBODY CAN GIVE ME A GOOD ANSWER AND IT WAS SO EASY.
I see a lot of movies where they get palladium with potassium hydroxide and formic acid but me I don't have acces to potassium hydroxide and this is the reason I don't search anymore how to get with formic acid.
And yesterday I see on internet a movie in wich he use sodium carbonate not potassium hydroxide with formic acid, and I remember the formic acid is cheap and easy to get it is used to treat bee ,and I say this is what I search a lot of time.Is not important if main solution contain base metals just drop silver if is present and after add sodium carbonate until change the colour and in final some formic acid and put on stove at 80⁰c and add little sodium carbonate and palladium will start to drop. THIS IS A EASY AND QUICK WAY VERY GOOD THIS IS WHAT I SEARCH


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## Golddigger76 (Aug 12, 2022)

> kurtak said:
> 
> 
> > Two possibilities why this has not worked for you (actually three)
> ...


My bubbler was not set up properly to have enough agitation. I have since started using a magnetic stirrer with a copper bar hanging inside of the beaker while being stirred and heated. This is working out very well and no more pgm plated bars.
I have been considering trying to cement the PGM's with copper powder with stirring and heat instead of the bar hanging into the beaker.


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## frederickdoc (Nov 26, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> AND RETURN TO MY PROBLEM TRYING TO BUBBLE CHLORINE IN PD SOLUTION WICH CONTAIN BASE METALS IS A PROBLEM?


Hi I see this is a newer thread.im new to to this site.Anyway how are you trying to bubble chlorine. Myself i don't use any harsh chemical so I've been testing trying stuff ,much safer and environmental friendly.i might have your answer tho


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 26, 2022)

frederickdoc said:


> Hi I see this is a newer thread.im new to to this site.Anyway how are you trying to bubble chlorine. Myself i don't use any harsh chemical so I've been testing trying stuff ,much safer and environmental friendly.i might have your answer tho


As I told in the other thread, Welcome to us.
But read the rules of the forum, then read C.M.Hokes book, it is free here on the forum.
Then read the safety section and dealing with waste in the forum.

Youtube is NOT your friend when it goes to refining, it is actually for the most part a shorter road to agony and despair.

You did not reply to my other post.
As for this post, Mythen will not answer, he has been banned, and will not answer your post.

Please use proper punctuation and line shifts.
It is hard to read some of these posts if they get long, additionally some members have to use translators to understand.
Without a proper sentence construct these tools also struggles.


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