# What a find! I was surprised!



## DylanDownright84 (Apr 6, 2017)

So I'm going through an order of 513 grams of scrap silver I got yesterday and find this... not sure why someone would ruin this beauty by fashioning a ring out of it, but wow! It's a 1/10 Oz fine gold 5 dollar piece!


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## Palladium (Apr 7, 2017)

Have you tested that with a file and nitric?


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## Refining Rick (Apr 7, 2017)

Does it say "replica" and "copy" on it in the first picture?


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## anachronism (Apr 7, 2017)

Refining Rick said:


> Does it say "replica" and "copy" on it in the first picture?



It certainly does Rick.


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## kurtak (Apr 7, 2017)

anachronism said:


> Refining Rick said:
> 
> 
> > Does it say "replica" and "copy" on it in the first picture?
> ...



So its most likely a copper nickel alloy (or maybe brass) that may or may not be gold plated (if its not gold plating it is likely titanium oxide plating - like on drill bits)

Kurt


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## silversaddle1 (Apr 7, 2017)

Junk.


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## justinhcase (Apr 7, 2017)

I have found a number of "Replica" Coins in jewellery.
One very ruff replication of a Krugerrand in 375Au.
Also replica Sovereigns in low karat gold.
If you are wearing it as jewellery you do not want full 22 karat or it will rub off like a crayon every where.
Worth checking. Hope for the best, Be prepared for the worst.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 7, 2017)

I haven't tested it, but it does have a messy engraving on it that says "copy." I don't have any nitric so I'm taking it to a buddy of mine who's way more knowledgeable than I am considering I'm still a noob. I'm still surprised as to why someone would go through the trouble of all this. Thanks everyone! It was any ugly ring, but the more I study it the more it does look fake. Well, I was excited for about 30 minutes anyways. Haha. I'll keep on keepin on.


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## Refining Rick (Apr 7, 2017)

Nice finds are out there. I for one am now hooked on the little bags off "gold" jewelry at yard sales and thrift shops. You know the 1 buck a bag stuff. I have found enough karat gold in them to pay for them many times over. Usually its that small odd bit in the bottom that you see and just know. Once I spied a small gold cross in one that looked nice. Turns out I was right. A little under a gram of 14K, but not only that in the same bag was a 14K gold and pearl pendant that weighed 2.5 grams without the pearl. Paid $2 for the bag. Even scored a 14K scorpion tie tack at Goodwill for $1 once. Then give away all the "non suspected gold" jewelry to the kids and crafty people I know. 
Deals and finds are out there.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 7, 2017)

Rick, awesome finds buddy! I've only been doing this for 3 months now, but I plan on doing that exact thing. Gonna do some yard sale hopping in the coming months. Even going panning for gold up on Contrary creek and it's tributaries this month with a guy who knows alot more about this stuff than I do. Gonna keep my fingers crossed and will definitely post pics of any finds I come across to share with you guys. This hobby has been a saving grace from the Ptsd and I can't get enough of it!


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 7, 2017)

Anyone interested in telling me what to look for when using a precious metals acid test? Seen a few videos, but I'm still not sure what I'm looking for and didn't get any instructions.


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## jimdoc (Apr 7, 2017)

DylanDownright84 said:


> Anyone interested in telling me what to look for when using a precious metals acid test? Seen a few videos, but I'm still not sure what I'm looking for and didn't get any instructions.




http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=1765


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## justinhcase (Apr 7, 2017)

DylanDownright84 said:


> Anyone interested in telling me what to look for when using a precious metals acid test? Seen a few videos, but I'm still not sure what I'm looking for and didn't get any instructions.


The best thing you can do is buy a set of test needle's.
They will give you a standard sample from 8k to 22k.
Then get your self some plated junk and have at it.
The difference is quite obvious once you have seen it.but is quite complicated to explain.
I still use my test needle's from the department of standards to check scratch test's as the acid may deteriorate but the test alloys always stay the same.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 10, 2017)

Thanks Justin. I'm currently about 5 minutes from rinsing a small batch of pins and plated e-scrap from an AP mixture. I've got some gold filled scrap sitting in a similar mixture and it appears that the filled stuff is actually going into the AP. I see some gold particles floating, but there's alot of black stuff in the mix. Gonna search the forum for some more information. Hope I can find some. Not entirely sure what I'm dealing with, but as always, my fingers are crossed.


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## Tndavid (Apr 10, 2017)

DylanDownright84 said:


> Thanks Justin. I'm currently about 5 minutes from rinsing a small batch of pins and plated e-scrap from an AP mixture. I've got some gold filled scrap sitting in a similar mixture and it appears that the filled stuff is actually going into the AP. I see some gold particles floating, but there's alot of black stuff in the mix. Gonna search the forum for some more information. Hope I can find some. Not entirely sure what I'm dealing with, but as always, my fingers are crossed.


Just a little bit of info. If you have access to nitric, and forgive me if you have mentioned otherwise, but a dilute nitric nuke will work wonders with your gold filled material.


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## justinhcase (Apr 10, 2017)

Tndavid said:


> DylanDownright84 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Justin. I'm currently about 5 minutes from rinsing a small batch of pins and plated e-scrap from an AP mixture. I've got some gold filled scrap sitting in a similar mixture and it appears that the filled stuff is actually going into the AP. I see some gold particles floating, but there's alot of black stuff in the mix. Gonna search the forum for some more information. Hope I can find some. Not entirely sure what I'm dealing with, but as always, my fingers are crossed.
> ...


I would agree,AP is great for ram fingers,but nitric is my go to first leach for base metals.


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## Tndavid (Apr 10, 2017)

You should be able to access the process via the search engine. I don't mind giving you some pointers under 1 condition. That condition being that you have read all our safety topics and waste disposal topics as well. But then again I'm new as well and I'm sure there are other way more experienced gentlemen on the board that may lend a hand as well. Show your safe,responsible and not trying to reinvent the will and you will be ok here. These are great great people!!!!


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 11, 2017)

You guys have no idea how much I appreciate your help! I've already purchased 5 boxes of baking soda for the disposal process. I read somewhere that a rusty nail can neutralize the garbage, but I can't recall. Here's some pics of what I'm doing as we speak. And sadly I have no access to nitric. I'm using poor man's aqua regia. Hcl 31.45 and h202. The gold filled is still in the mix, that's the pic of the bottom. The e-scrap are the pics of the jar with the unbleached coffee filter with the gray sludge in it in which there's also the gold foils.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 11, 2017)

Would the bleach and Hcl route be the best way to do the gold filled? I'm gonna give it a try tomorrow when I have more light and also, the most important part, I can do it outside of the shed so I can avoid the fumes. I have a ventilator, but I'm not taking any chances.


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## Tndavid (Apr 11, 2017)

Don't take any chances and you need more than baking soda for the waste disposal. Please read up some more before you end up with a bunch of waste. Hcl and h2o2 is AP. Poor man's AR is another thing all together. I've never ran gf using anything but Nitric or the proverbial poor man's version. As you read you'll learn the processes and chemicals to use with each. I'm gonna save you some lectures and tell you to use the search function and download hokes from Dave's (frugalrefiner) sig line. You'll pick it up if you are willing to cover your beakers and start the reading. Trust me I started the same way. I asked questions, what do I do here what do I do know. And thankfully they didn't tell me. They gave me the opportunity to learn as will you. Give it a chance and if you need any help afterwards let us know. There is a plethora of knowledge here. These gentlemen have put in years and years to give us this wonderful place. You just gotta go get it!!! It's not about reaching the destination, it's the journey getting there.  Good luck and be safe my man.


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## justinhcase (Apr 12, 2017)

again I agree,Ms Hoke is the single best thing you can study for a first step.
Read her book several times and it will all string together properly


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## Palladium (Apr 12, 2017)

No hcl and bleach will not work for gold filled.


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## anachronism (Apr 12, 2017)

Palladium said:


> No hcl and bleach will not work for gold filled.



Absolutely 100 percent correct. It's no good at all for this.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 12, 2017)

I'm reading Hoke's book as well as searching the forum for everything. I've been toying with the AP method, in tiny amounts, and it seems to be getting me some results. I got a ton of scrap 925 yesterday from a pawn shop owner who practically gave it to me and I found a thick 925 ring, but it has a 14k oval w/ initials on it and it's a separate piece to the ring, but for all my efforts I can't get the damn thing to separate from the ring. I wish I had some nitric! You guys rock! Thanks for the replies and I'll take any suggestions or help you can offer.


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## Tndavid (Apr 12, 2017)

Pics of the ring?


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 12, 2017)

Sorry about the crap pics. I went at it for over an hour and only got one corner off. There's an obvious seam and it's a separate piece from the ring. I thought I had it when I got the one corned pried up and could see that it was just a gold oval set ontop of the ring. Just have no idea what's holding it there.


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## Tndavid (Apr 12, 2017)

Search poor man's nitric. Drop it in, the silver will go into solution and if the oval is gold, it will be left in the beaker. Sounds easy. And will be after a little research.


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## Palladium (Apr 12, 2017)

Its probably soldered and your not getting it hot enough.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 13, 2017)

Gonna try heat again tomorrow with the mapp torch, just gonna have to go slow cuz there's only about 180°F difference in melting points between silver and 14k gold I believe, the gold melting lower than the silver. (Correct me if I'm wrong please). If that doesn't work, I'll try the poor man's nitric. I really appreciate the input everyone. I love this forum! There's so much education on here and I just wanna learn everything at once hahaha.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 13, 2017)

And just to be clear, poor man's nitric is the same as poor man's aqua regia? I'm currently searching poor man's nitric and poor man's aqua regia is what I'm getting. So far I've purchased Hcl 31.5, hydrogen peroxide, stump out/sodium metabisulfite, Ammonium nitrate (in the form of instant cold compresses from Walmart), isopropyl alcohol (rubbing), nail polish remover (can't remember) a ton of baking soda, fish tank bubbler with tubing, and a bunch of hardware and safety equipment. Only thing I've attempted so far is the AP method on some filled gold jewelry scrap shown in some of the above pics. Still researching the processes for everything else. Again, the search function has been my main problem, but I'm being vigilant.


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## Palladium (Apr 13, 2017)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/app.php/googlesearch?cx=010858541960826805633%3Ak0elucy8sci&q=poor+mans+nitric&sitesearch=


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## upcyclist (Apr 13, 2017)

IF you want to separate the two, the mass will probably keep it from heating too quickly. If you hold the ring upside-down, the gold part will drop off when the solder melts.

That's if you even want to separate them--melting them together would probably make for an approximate inquarting of the karat gold.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 13, 2017)

Any suggestions on what process I should use? I'm only experienced do the AP method at the moment. I got a hot plate as well. Was gonna try a small batch of e-scrap with some gold scrap I've collected and do it together. I'm most likely going to attempt it this weekend. Saturday most likely.


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## butcher (Apr 13, 2017)

DylanDownright84, 
Here is my suggestion, collect scrap do not worry about processing it yet (study how to prepare the materials).
Then get a good batch of memory fingers, and study the copper chloride leach (what you call AP) study it well then just when you think you know everything about it study it more), use it to recover gold from the memory fingers, keep studying. the memory fingers only deal with a few metals (none of which will complicate things, this way you observe reactions and gain more understanding.

Then work on karat or placer mined gold, learn it well and work on recovery and refining.

Then you gain a good experience in the reactions and complications with these easy materials to recover and refine, then you keep studying to gain more knowledge on the more complicated materials involving other metals or materials that make recovery or refining more difficult.

Do not make the same mistake I did by going out and buying chemicals you may need, buy what you need now, and learn to use them and learn to use them safely, (a lot of your study should be safety related, dealing with waste is a good place to start). I have chemical I purchased ten years ago I still have not needed. I have fancy expensive lab glass I still do not wish to use or break (much of my lab glass is stuff from a kitchen) even many of the chemical I use now I make or come from other reactions as byproducts)...

You do not need to spend much money to get started, your lab can be built from supplies of a grocery, hardware and second-hand stores, many lab supplies can be found at your local second-hand store (or even your wife's kitchen (note I said study safety taking your wife's kitchen supplies is not acting safely). then if you need special lab glass buy it (with the gold you have from your melting dish), after you know you will actually need it.

To learn this most of your work will be study and research, without that under your belt before you try to recover and refine you just as well start throwing gold into the trash because that is where it will go without you even knowing it.


Do not get gold fever and attempt processing your materials before you gain a good understanding of the processes and problems you will likely face and have a clear understanding of how to correct things gone wrong or how not to make a thing go wrong...
99% study and 10% lab will = shining gold in your melting dish. lab work with little study = your gold in your trash. the idea is to get gold out of the trash not put it there unknowingly.


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## glorycloud (Apr 14, 2017)

butcher said:


> DylanDownright84,
> Here is my suggestion, .......
> 
> Do not get gold fever



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Quote edited for conciseness and to maximize understanding of this VERY common malady. 

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 14, 2017)

Very much appreciated butcher! I was gonna start another experiment this weekend but decided to hold off. I'm still reading through hokes book. All I have going on at the moment is some gold filled scrap in AP. Not trying to start anything just yet. I have been reading all the posts on the forum I can about the poor man's nitric method and have decided to hold off for now. I did find a place locally that sells nitric acid though, industrial chemicals inc. In Richmond, Virginia. Just gonna keep with making silver bullion and stirring the AP mix daily until I decide what to do next. The AP method worked great on the e-scrap, except I have this thick gray sludge in with the foils. I haven't gotten any further than the filtering part and it's all still in the filters sitting in a glass jar. I'm on a pretty tight budget so I get stuff from the dollar store and then the cheap utensils from Walmart. Thanks for the replies everyone!


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## nickvc (Apr 15, 2017)

Do not skimp on your beakers or look for Corningware to process in, if your glass breaks it will cost you a lot more than a few dollars!


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 15, 2017)

Thanks Nick! I've got a few pyrex glass measuring cups, but am in dire need of beakers and whatnot. Gonna search around and see if I can find a set somewhere that won't break my wallet.


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 15, 2017)

Dylan, do not heat those pyrex glass measuring cups. They're made for measuring, not heating. They're very thick, and as they're heated, stresses are created between the hotter and cooler parts. So even though they're pyrex, they can fail catastrophically. You'll find that beakers and other pyrex labware intended for heating are much thinner, which reduces the stresses involved.

Dave


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 15, 2017)

I understand being on a tight budget Dylan, but proper set up is something that shouldn't be skimped on, glassware, ppe and other safety stuff in particular.

Don't get me wrong, you can do great work with some second hand coffee pots, so long as you have a good corningware pyroceram piece underneath it, for when it inevitably fails. It may last a week, a month, a decade.. But, after processing lots and lots of escrap, or jewelry with stones, it's going to fail. Just be prepared. 

Then, with the money that you make from your first bits of gold you carefully recover and refine, invest some in better equipment, and a little in more scrap to keep the ball rolling. Trust me, it's possible. So long as you get your escrap free or cheap, or pay 50-75% spot for karat and goldfilled stuff, eventually you will have all your necessary gear and come out ahead.

A fume hood is also a necessity, so is good nitric, if you are planning on recovering and refining silver.

It was mentioned earlier, but, goldfilled in AP, just simply isnt the way to go. I suppose it may eventually reach your end game result, but to have it recovered and refined may take 3 months +++, instead of the 2-3 days it can be done in, with the proper procedures. 

Butcher is the king of advice, saying to study while you collect and save. Well, those words of wisdom are spot on, and second to none. This place is a cornucopia of knowledge, ripe for the picking. You may have to sift through to find what you seek, but I can GUARANTEE that it's here. All you have to do, is go right on ahead and help yourself, and the forum will be more than kind in return.

If my sorry arse can do it, ANYONE can.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 16, 2017)

Topher, Dave, thanks a bunch! I've halted all further acquaintance testing. I spent much of the weekend cleaning a heaping pile of scrap 925 as well as acid testing a bunch of stuff. Still reading Hoke's book, not a speed reader, but I'm learning. The gold filled scrap is still sitting in my AP mixture in the shed and it's turned damn near black. Looks like black coffee. I've been good about writing down notes on everything I've done so far. I still stir it a few times a day and it looks like the metal is starting to disappear into the solution and I'm seeing tiny little gold flakes floating around or settled in the bottom. Curious to see what else it's gonna do with more time. After shattering the first glass jar I just put the jars in the sunlight during the day.  I still have filters with foils in them mixed in with a thick grey sludge. I've read what to do next and watched videos, but am taking you guy's advice and reading before proceeding.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 18, 2017)

Here you go guys. Here's the 2 mixtures I've had going for about 3-4 weeks now. Haven't gone any further accept for a daily check and agitation.


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## DylanDownright84 (Apr 18, 2017)

Better pic


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