# NaNO3 substitution ?



## Noxx (Mar 2, 2007)

Hello,
I have 25 lbs of KNO3 sitting happily here and I would like to know if it is possible to use it instead of the NaNO3 in the Aqua Regia method. 
-Will it makes the same acid strengh ?
-Is it the same proportions with HCl ?
-Same precipitation methods ?
Thanks !


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## NaNO3 (Mar 2, 2007)

Goldman on ebay says you can but its a bad idea.
Send him a email he can help.


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## lazersteve (Mar 2, 2007)

I don't know about how the potassium would affect the effectiveness of the AR mix, but either will form the HNO3 required plus a salt that stays in solution (NaCl or KCl).

I would assume that as long as you adjust the ratios of the salt in your formula to account for the difference in atomic weights of potassium vs sodium you would be okay.

Both substances contain the same molecule you want 'NO3', you can actually make Nitric Acid out of either salt. Here is a quick how to (this is a VERY DANGEROUS ACID, It will stain your skin, eat your flesh, burn your eyes, and it's vapors can kill you two weeks after you breath them !!!) BE CAREFUL, BE SAFE, DON'T BE CARELESS OR STUPID! I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE if you bring about your own SELF DESTRUCTION!:

Mix two parts of the salt (Na or K Nitrate) to 1 part H2SO4 conc (Sulfuric Acid- Main line septic line cleaner from hardware store) and distill (all glass rig) the HNO3 out of the mix. You can get 60-70% HNO3 this way if you keep the still head temperature at 83 C and the receiving flask on ice. 

There is even a 'speed method' where you mix the above chems, let sit overnight, filter out the solids and use as is. I've never tried this one so I can't vouch for it. 

Personally I use the lab grade 70% stuff when I need HNO3.


Steve


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## NaNO3 (Mar 2, 2007)

.....


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## socorban (Mar 3, 2007)

I think "rooto" is a better brand of drain opening sulfruic acid, very little adatives and its still clear. Ive ran inot problem with openers that have alot of addatives and color.

http://www.unclejoes.com/drain_cleaners.htm I get "rooto" off of this site for my recovery cell method, but you can use it for any of the sulfuric acid needs


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## lazersteve (Mar 3, 2007)

My local ACE hardware sells this exact stuff for $20 / gallon, I use it for my electrolytic cell also.


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## tarvus (Mar 27, 2007)

lazersteve said:


> I don't know about how the potassium would affect the effectiveness of the AR mix, but either will form the HNO3 required plus a salt that stays in solution (NaCl or KCl).
> 
> I would assume that as long as you adjust the ratios of the salt in your formula to account for the difference in atomic weights of potassium vs sodium you would be okay.



I routinely use potassium nitrate instead of sodium nitrate in making my AR. It works equally well as compared to sodium nitrate.

I used to weigh it out using 1/2 pound per liter on HCL. Now, I just use a measuring cup. I find a half cup is pretty darned close to 1/2 pound.


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## Mr_Edd2nd (Dec 20, 2010)

Hey Lazer been following a few comments on nitric and as a chemist or alchemist i make a jolly god baker. i recently tried to make some nitric acid and i dont think it worked well because it wont do squat to copper anyways i decided to call it quits for the day and put a stopper in the flask that had pottasium nitrate and sulphuric in it well after cooling down the stopper is completely stuck solid and then i see it is also a speed method of making nitric!I am a little weary of reheating the flask to release the vacume pressure. Any ideas here because its been sitting in my shed for about three weeks now.
And yes i gave my science teacher too much grief at school and now hes laughing his ass off.
regards edd




> Mix two parts of the salt (Na or K Nitrate) to 1 part H2SO4 conc (Sulfuric Acid- Main line septic line cleaner from hardware store) and distill (all glass rig) the HNO3 out of the mix. You can get 60-70% HNO3 this way if you keep the still head temperature at 83 C and the receiving flask on ice.
> 
> There is even a 'speed method' where you mix the above chems, let sit overnight, filter out the solids and use as is. I've never tried this one so I can't vouch for it.
> 
> ...


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## lazersteve (Dec 20, 2010)

Ed, 

Which method did you use to make the nitric acid? The 'fast method' you quoted does not produce the best results. For better results use sodium nitrate and the 'Cold Method' described here:

First Version of Cold Nitric

Cold Nitric Acid Q & A

Goldenchilds video of the process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-UkqAs2MWE

If you followed these directions you should have gotten good nitric. If it's cold outside you'll need some heat to get things going with the reaction of nitric acid and copper.

Steve


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## goldenchild (Dec 21, 2010)

lazersteve said:


> Goldenchilds video of the process:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-UkqAs2MWESteve



Just wanted to add to this. Since the production of this video I have further refined (pun intended) the recipe for this process. I now use only 600 grams of NaNO3 and 200ml of H2SO4(Rooto drain opener). This makes for better results across the board. With this formula you now only need to condense once to get all the salt out. Also, I now use a 1 liter griffin beaker with watchglass or 1 liter boiling flask for this process. This makes the yeilds greater as a minimal amount of liquid escapes the vessels when boiling along with less acid being lost in every condensation.


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## lazersteve (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks goldenchild, 

My numbers are all based upon the theoretical quantities, in reality the reagents are always slightly different grades and purities (especially when using store bought products). 

Everyone who uses the recipe will find slightly different optimum values based upon the source and quality of the reagents they are using.

Steve


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