# washington state gold ore



## calgoldrecyclers

anyone happen to know what the host rock is with gold ore in the monte cristo district? ( gold bar/ index washington area)
thanks


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## calgoldrecyclers

hah! i am replying to mine own question. the host rock is serpentinite/ quartz feldspar. and what a glorious day it was when i found it!
hint: look for granite outcrops!


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## Seamus

If you can pulverize the serpentine on site in that area then do so. I have found gold in the serpentine from this general area.


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## Richard36

If there is Serpentine in that area, then there is probably also Dunite and Peridotite. These two rock types are associated with Platinum. Look for them. Heavy gray grains in the black sand from from creeks in areas with Serpentine, Dunite, and Peridotite, are often an alloy of Osmium and Iridium. I have found that Platinum and Palladium often alloy together in black sands as well. Happy prospecting! Sincerely;Rick :!:  P.S. Eclogite, and Pyroxenite are two other rock types found in association with Serpentine. Serpentine and Serpentinite are variations of the same rock type. :!: These rock types are formed by compressive uplift and folding of ancient sea floor. I hope that this information has been of value to you, and everyone else who reads it.


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## Seamus

Richard36 said:


> If there is Serpentine in that area, then there is probably also Dunite and Peridotite. These two rock types are associated with Platinum. Look for them. Heavy gray grains in the black sand from from creeks in areas with Serpentine, Dunite, and Peridotite, are often an alloy of Osmium and Iridium. I have found that Platinum and Palladium often alloy together in black sands as well. Happy prospecting! Sincerely;Rick :!:  P.S. Eclogite, and Pyroxenite are two other rock types found in association with Serpentine. Serpentine and Serpentinite are variations of the same rock type. :!: These rock types are formed by compressive uplift and folding of ancient sea floor. I hope that this information has been of value to you, and everyone else who reads it.


That information is very helpfull. That you Richard.
Jim


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## Richard36

You are welcome. Any questions?


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## Richard36

The rock man commeth! ( laugh! ) I am surprised that no one has took me up on my offer to extend my hand in comradery to all those on this forum. Rocks and minerals were my thing long before I became a prospector and assayer. Ask me some questions people.


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## Harold_V

You may recall that I told you that I know nothing about minerals.

Tell you what I'll do. I have some nice specimens of the gold ore I processed. I'll try to find time to take some pictures for your perusal. Free gold is visible, along with other mineralization. I'd be interested in hearing your comments about the nature of the ore. 

I will not be able to post before Monday night at the earliest. Be patient. It could be even later! 

Harold


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## Richard36

Excellent! I truly do look forward to seeing those photos. Good ore turns me on. Yeah, I hope that I can identify it. If I can't, post it in the Appropriate section of www.fabreminerals.com The moderators there will tell you what it is. Don't shortcut on me now, I still want to see it myself without going to the mineral forum to track it down. ( laugh! ) That was meant to be funny. Anyway, I look forward to it. Sincerely; Rick.


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## Harold_V

Ok, here's a picture of some samples of the gold ore I processed those many years ago. 

The gentleman that provided the ore was a rock hound. He came across the material in the process of pursuing his hobby. His daughter was acquainted with an elderly gentleman (Aldo Gabardi) that was a friend, the same individual that grew the beautiful silver crystals I have shown previously. Through him, we became acquainted. 

He was generous to a fault, providing me with several samples, as shown, below. Three of them were saw cut, about ¼" thick, but the upper left hand piece is as it was purchased, tapered from about ¼" to 1" in thickness. Free gold is visible in all specimens, particularly the smallest piece. 

The dark areas of the sawn specimens are laden with tiny gold particles that shine because of the saw cut. Other areas color the quartz a tan color from the heavy concentration of gold particles. 

The top right piece appears to have a couple bands of what surely must be pyrite, although the bands may also contain gold. The color in those areas is much duller, in keeping with that of pyrite. 

Enjoy! 

Harold


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## allanwcoty

Beautiful specimens Harold, Thanks.


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## Richard36

Wow Harold! those are some excellent samples! Thank you! Alright, the white material is most likely one of the Feldspars, Orthoclase is my guess. It may also be a Carbonate Rock composed of Dolomite. The gray material looks like Galena, a lead sulfide, quite possibly Gold and silver rich, and in your case, it was. Being that these two minerals are found together in this ore suggests that it is of Mesothermal Vein Origin, (390-575 F, and at moderate pressures) and formed in association with Granite. As far as vein systems go, this could just as easily came from a Hydrothermal Environment. This type of mineral environment forms in areas that have undergone volcanism, and, or intrusion by magma, which in turn vaporizes ground water and mixes it with gaseous emanations from the melt, creating either acidic or alkaline fluids that dissolve minerals as the solutions flow upward to the surface, redepositing minerals as the fluid flows, in accordance with the minerals solubility, and solidifying temperature. That is why fractures in rock commonly have seams of material infilling them. this type of vein system is called a Stockwork Vein System, though the system that your ore came from was most likely that of a Massive Metamorphic, or Massive Replacement Deposit. I have similar samples from prospects dug up around here back in the 1860's.


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## Richard36

Any and all minerals containing lead, zinc, or copper should be assayed for their precious metal content. These metals are natural collectors of PM's within Hydrothermal Solutions.


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## Anonymous

Richard36 said:


> You are welcome. Any questions?


Well,
could You give a name of a creek with Dunite in it's bank gravel, please? :roll: 
Best Regards,
Hugo


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## Richard36

I am not sure of any specific creek names where Dunite can be found as a part of the stream sediment gravels, but Curry county OR. does have PT group metals in the black sands found there. Native PT nuggets are not uncommon as well, from what I have read about my region. So, the best that I can say is for you to go check it out. Hopefully you find a Highgrade pocket, and come out smiling. I hope to hear your story if you do. I Will look through my books as well, and if I can find a creek name with that rock type, I will make an additional post with that information for you. Sincerely; Rick.


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## Anonymous

Thank You very much, Richard.
Hope, one Day, we will hunt for Pt nuggets and ore together in your beautifull land.
Best Regards,
Hugo


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## Richard36

Dunite is a variety of Peridotite, and contains less than 45% total silica, and no quartz. It is composed almost entirely of Olivine, Which gives the rock its recognizable greenish or brownish coloring. In the Cascade Mountains, this rock was formed by differentiation of Basaltic magma while it was in the molten state. These rock types are frequently associated with deposits of Nickel-bearing Pyrrhotite, Chromite (Chromium), Platinum, and rare metals. Prominent mineral occurrences in Peridotite have been found in the Northern Cascades of Washington. Serpentinite Is formed by the metamorphism of Olivine rich intrusions in a water rich environment. These intrusions are usually composed of Peridotite, Pyroxenite, and Lherzolite, sometimes also of Amphibolite (originally metamorphosed from Dolomite rock), and Gabbro. Serpentinite is also the Host Rock for Platinum, Nickel, and Chromium. I hope that this information has been helpful to you and everyone else who reads it. If you or anyone else have any questions pertaining to Economic Geology / Minerology, make a post, or send me a PM. I will respond. Sincerely; Rick...


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## markqf1

Speaking of platinum bearing rocks, check this out.

http://www.e-goldprospecting.com/html/gold_lateritic_-_saprolitic_de.html


Mark


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## Richard36

Thanks for the link! It does have allot of useful info. I was familiar with the Al, Cu, Au, Ag, & Fe, associations with Bauxite, and Greenstone, but had totally spaced the association of Pt, & Ni with Laterite in association with Bauxite and Greenstone. Good link! The OR. and WA. Cascades are filled with emplacements fitting this description. In my region, the North Santiam, Quartzville, and Blue River mining districts contain contacts fitting this description. An out of publication book that would be of interest on this subject would be "Metaliferous mines of Oregon". It contains the history, production, and geology of all mines in my state from 1840 to 1920, and a few up to 1950. Interesting reading if you can find a copy. I found the copy that I refer to in a public library.


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## markqf1

Thanks Rick,
I'm a little more interested in the geology here in N. Ga.
I am a member of a prospecting club http://www.weekendgoldminers.com here that has properties in the Ga. counties mentioned on the link.
The old timers (1930's)probably wouldn't have been looking for pgm's.

You are the "Rock Man" here.

What do you know about the saprolite and auriferous quartz and schists her in N. Ga?
I've found sulfides to be an enemy although possibly profitable..
I am a rockhound just like you. :lol: 

Mark


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## Richard36

I am unfamiliar with Saprolite. neither could I find it in any of my books to read about it. Quartz, of course is created by magmatic differentiation in subduction zones associated with mountain building. Water within the melt is important for the creation of quartz, and that is why quartz often contains gold, and other metals. The water at great pressure and temp. combines with sulfur, and chlorine which dissolves all the minerals at depth. This water migrates to the surface through cracks, fractures, and microscopic spaces within the overlying rock(s). As the water cools, it deposits the minerals onto the cooler rock surfaces in accordance with each minerals solubility, and solidifying temp. When infilling cracks and fractures, the vein system formed is called a "Stockwork Vein System", and when fine to microscopic gold infills spaces through out the rock of a massive area, It it is referred to as a Desseminated hydrothermal load environment. A note of importance here, Sulfides form below the water table, and Oxides form above the water table. As for Schists, What type of Schist? (Chlorite, Mica, Albite, Greenstone, etc.) Each type of Schist has its own Geologic occurance, and associations. I need to know what type to be able to give you any useful info. I hope that what I have wrote so far has been of interest, and of use to you, as well as all who read it. Maybe I should start a new thread entitled "Ask the Rock Man", lol! Sincerely; Rick...


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## bobinpasask

Richard, I would like to ask a question about an outcropping I found up here in Northern Canada. The physical size and shape of the outcrop is as follows:
Seven (7) horizontal benches all about 3-400 yds. long. The first (lowest) bench is approx. 12-15 ft. high, then runs back to the second bench at about 6-8 ft. high and back to the third about 5-6 ft. high and so on untilt he 7th bench at about 3 ft. high.
I have prospected for about 15 years now but am NOT a geologist, so don't know all the terms you have been using. 
Under the microscope, the sample looks like an agglomeration of crystals (sorry for the layman's terms) With black (unknown) and white (quartz) crystals mixed. 
I sampled from the darkest area (also wet) at the time. The samples were sent to an assay lab for Gold, Platinum and Pd.
Results were sample # 1 = <5 ppb Au, 10 ppb Pt 20 ppb Pd
Sample # 2 = 25 ppb Au, 20 ppb PT and 20 ppb Pd

Would you say I am wasting my time taking more samples ??
Thanks, Bob


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## Palladium

Richard36 said:


> I am unfamiliar with Saprolite. neither could I find it in any of my books to read about it. Quartz, of course is created by magmatic differentiation in subduction zones associated with mountain building. Water within the melt is important for the creation of quartz, and that is why quartz often contains gold, and other metals. The water at great pressure and temp. combines with sulfur, and chlorine which dissolves all the minerals at depth. This water migrates to the surface through cracks, fractures, and microscopic spaces within the overlying rock(s). As the water cools, it deposits the minerals onto the cooler rock surfaces in accordance with each minerals solubility, and solidifying temp. When infilling cracks and fractures, the vein system formed is called a "Stockwork Vein System", and when fine to microscopic gold infills spaces through out the rock of a massive area, It it is referred to as a Desseminated hydrothermal load environment. A note of importance here, Sulfides form below the water table, and Oxides form above the water table. As for Schists, What type of Schist? (Chlorite, Mica, Albite, Greenstone, etc.) Each type of Schist has its own Geologic occurance, and associations. I need to know what type to be able to give you any useful info. I hope that what I have wrote so far has been of interest, and of use to you, as well as all who read it. Maybe I should start a new thread entitled "Ask the Rock Man", lol! Sincerely; Rick...



Very informative Rick.
I really like you are of expertise.


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## Richard36

bobinpasask said:


> Results were sample # 1 = <5 ppb Au, 10 ppb Pt 20 ppb Pd
> Sample # 2 = 25 ppb Au, 20 ppb PT and 20 ppb Pd
> 
> Would you say I am wasting my time taking more samples ??
> Thanks, Bob



I am not sure of the conversion mathematics on parts per billion to oz per ton. But personally, I do not even raise an eyebrow unless the material I assay contains at least 1/4 oz per ton Gold. The reason being the cost involved with the extraction, transporting the run of mine material, the crushing, separating the ore minerals from the gaunge (tailings/worthless rock), prepping the concentrated ore minerals, leaching or amalgamation to recover the gold from the ore minerals, and finally refining the gold itself. If you have all the equipment needed, and you are sure that any ton, or yard of ore extracted will produce enough valuable metals to pay for the steps involved to get to refined metal in hand, or concentrated ore minerals that can be shipped to a smelter that is willing to buy them, then by all means, proceed. If in doubt, proceed slowly, and with ample investigation. I have made the mistake that you are trying to avoid. It can be rather expensive, even on a small miner level. Some where on this forum I saw the mathematics for calculating ppb to oz per tn. I failed to write the equation down. If anyone knows where that is at, I would appreciate being told where to look, or a cut & paste of that equation made to a new post here. It would be of help to me, and to Bob. As for the black crystals in quartz, I will have to look that up. Black crystals in quartz could be good! Could be bad too, might cause you to glow in the dark! lol! Uraninite, Pitchblende, and a few other Uranium minerals are black, and form in quartz veins associated with Granite. They could just as easily contain tin, titainium, niobium, tantalum, thallium, or thorium. Thallium and thorium are radioactive. There are other metals that those black crystals could contain, but the metals that I listed are the most likely. What are the crystals shape, and how many sides do they have? That information would help me out allot, short of seeing a photo. Anyway, I hope that this has been of help to you. Sincerely; Rick...



Palladium said:


> Very informative Rick.
> I really like you are of expertise.



Thanks Palladium. I like to talk rocks. I hope that it shows. lol!


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## Platdigger

Well, one part per million is aproxamately 1 gram per ton. Therefore one part per billion is aprox. one miligram per ton.
In other words 1000 ppb would be one ppm.

To be exact, one ppm would be one gram per metric ton.
One ppb would be one miligram per "metric" ton.
Hope this helps.


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## markqf1

Rick,
Saprolite is not a particular type of rock. It simply means rock formations that are highly weathered and decayed.
This is what made it so conducive to hydrualic operations by the 29ers.
The schists around here are mostly mica and hornblende.

I have found a "spot" that I believe to be on a fault as the granite intrusive stops at the creek and, there is no sign of it on the other side. The strike and dip indicate that it should have carried on across to the other side of the creek.

As of yet, I have not found a geology map to support my theory.

On my next trip up there, I intend to investigate it further.

Mark


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## Richard36

markqf1 said:


> Rick,
> Saprolite is not a particular type of rock. It simply means rock formations that are highly weathered and decayed.
> This is what made it so conducive to hydrualic operations by the 29ers.
> The schists around here are mostly mica and hornblende. Mark



Thanks for the info on Saprolite. Mica Schists are prime regions to look for Garnets, especially Pyrope, Almandine, and Andradite, as well as Rhodolite, (a mix of Pyrope and Almandine in its chemical composition). Hornblende Schist in contact, or association with Granite, Greenstone, Diorite, or Gabbro would be prime ground to search for gold. Gold should be available as native element, as well as invisible complexes bound up in Sulfides, and Oxides. Black sand from such regions will usually contain gold alloyed to the surface of the magnetic, and non magnetic portions. It often takes a 10 power magnifying glass in bright sunlight against a blue background to see the yellow metallic sheen of the gold. 



markqf1 said:


> Rick,
> I have found a "spot" that I believe to be on a fault as the granite intrusive stops at the creek and, there is no sign of it on the other side. The strike and dip indicate that it should have carried on across to the other side of the creek.As of yet, I have not found a geology map to support my theory.
> Mark



It might be a fault, it may well also be the eroded surface of a Granite intrusion. If it is an intrusion into existing overlying rock, the contact point with the surrounding rock should show signs of melting, and mixing of the two types together. If it is clearly different with no signs of melting, or high heat at the contact, then it most likely is a fault showing an uplifted chunk of Granite. There are other possible options depending on what the other surrounding rock types are. If you know what the other rock types are in association with the Granite, I could probably give you more info. Without a photo of the contact, this is the best that I can do to help out. I hope that what I have wrote has been helpful, and of use to you, as well as others.
Sincerely; Rick...


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## Richard36

Platdigger said:


> Well, one part per million is aproxamately 1 gram per ton. Therefore one part per billion is aprox. one miligram per ton.
> In other words 1000 ppb would be one ppm.
> 
> To be exact, one ppm would be one gram per metric ton.
> One ppb would be one miligram per "metric" ton.
> Hope this helps.



Thanks, Yes this helps out allot.



bobinpasask said:


> Richard, I would like to ask a question about an outcropping I found up here in Northern Canada. The samples were sent to an assay lab for Gold, Platinum and Pd.
> Results were sample # 1 = <5 ppb Au, 10 ppb Pt 20 ppb Pd
> Sample # 2 = 25 ppb Au, 20 ppb PT and 20 ppb Pd
> Would you say I am wasting my time taking more samples ??
> Thanks, Bob



So, if my math is correct, 
Sample #1 contains 5 mg Au,10 mg Pt, & 20 mg Pd per metric ton.
Sample #2 contains 25 mg Au, 20 mg Pt, & 20 mg Pd per metric ton.

If this is the quantity that you could expect to recover per metric ton of ore, then yes, you are wasting your time. If the bead recovered contained that many milligrams of each of those metals, as in a standard fire assay, it is a different story entirely because each milligram of recovered metal is equal to 1 oz per ton. I hope that this has been of some help. Sincerely; Rick...


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## markqf1

Thanks Rick,
Next chance I get, I will snap a couple of photos for your veiwing pleasure.

Mark


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## Richard36

markqf1 said:


> Thanks Rick,
> Next chance I get, I will snap a couple of photos for your veiwing pleasure.
> Mark



Thanks. I look forward to seeing them. Questions and comments from others are welcome.


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## markqf1

Rick,
There is a post for you under "The rock man".
I've noticed that this forum is not geared toward prospecting and ore analysis.
But it sure has alot of experts on refining.

What a bargain!

Mark


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## Richard36

markqf1 said:


> Rick,
> There is a post for you under "The rock man".
> I've noticed that this forum is not geared toward prospecting and ore analysis.
> But it sure has alot of experts on refining.
> 
> What a bargain!
> 
> Mark



I agree, and that's a new thread topic that I'll start soon. ("Ask the Rock Man").
If you have a rock, mineral, or geology related question, make a post. I will reply.
I look forward to answering questions from those who post them.
Sincerely; Rick...


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## bobinpasask

Thanks Rick for your discussion. The black crystals are many-sided and contain 6, 8 and 10 sides and are intermingled with the clear quartz. The sides are sharp and angular suggesteing (I think) formation in place rather than rounded edges as might be found in a sedimentary deposit. ??

There was a forest fire through here two years ago and the outcrop is easily followed now that I have found it. I will attempt to investigate on strike and see if there are any better locations with, perhaps, darker outcrops. I will also take along the scintillometer this time to see if any radioactivity.

thanks again,
Bob


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## Richard36

bobinpasask said:


> Thanks Rick for your discussion. The black crystals are many-sided and contain 6, 8 and 10 sides and are intermingled with the clear quartz. The sides are sharp and angular suggesteing (I think) formation in place rather than rounded edges as might be found in a sedimentary deposit. ??
> thanks again, Bob



Thanks, and you are welcome. I am enjoying being able to answer questions from those who have them. I am confused as to what mineral those black crystals are. They should all have the same number of sides (crystal faces). Since you gave me multiple numbers, speculation would not even be accurate. If you could post a photo, that would take all the guess work out of it for me. A clear picture showing the crystal structure would be sweet. Identification would be fairly simple then. The sharp sides are indicative of weathering out of an "In Place" (In Sittu) deposit. You are correct, if the sides were worn, they would have became so by tumbling in some waterway, and thereby have the surface, and edges abraded rough, and round. Wind and sand can abrade rocks, and minerals in a similar way, but usually not in a uniform manner, whereas tumbling in water with sand can, and will. 

Make sure that you take that scintillometer with you so that you can check for radiation when you go back. Collect any rock fragments with crystals showing good crystal shape & structure. There are allot of mineral collectors around that would be willing to buy good specimins. You could make a post to ask questions, trade, or sell them at http://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?t=302 Sorry that I could not be of more assistance to you. I hope to receive a few more questions soon. Sincerely; Rick...


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## Anonymous

I also found ore with gold and silver and ? pretty new at this just wondering how to have it processed? found it in eastern washington I know some guys who process it using hydrochloric acid nitric acid and t10 to the second power what is that ?. also don't know just how sketchy these guys are. not that it matters I can always get more have myself about 80-100 lbs of ore out of an old mine


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## Anonymous

Hey what if it assays at about 80percent metals when ground to fine dust at 330lbs of


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## Richard36

biggdogg said:


> Hey what if it assays at about 80percent metals when ground to fine dust at 330lbs of



Sorry that it has taken so long to reply, I have been away from my computer for awhile. 

The first thing that you should do is have that ore checked out to see what metals it contains. It may well contain one or more metals that would make it valuable for their content, with gold and, or silver as byproducts. You would do well to have some lab perform a spectrographic analysis on it, or a chemical analysis to determine what metals are within it. Spectrographic is best, but chemical will work, and is alot cheaper. I can do the chemical analysis. If interested, send me a PM. 



biggdogg said:


> I also found ore with gold and silver and ? I know some guys who process it using hydrochloric acid nitric acid and t10 to the second power what is that ?.



This is a recovery process that utilizes aqua regia, to which some type of carbon compound is added that is suposed to strip the gold from solution by causing the gold in solution to bond to it, thus causing the gold to precipitate out as a nearly pure metalic dust bonded to the carbon precipitant. I am sceptical about how well it works. I have never tried this product. ( T10 precipitant ) The aqua regia must be neutralized before adding the T10, or the gold will be be redissolved by the aqua regia. Anyway, I am not convinced of the effectivness of this method. Further more, the silver would be lost to the tailings during filteration due to reaction with the chlorine producing insolubale silver chloride. The silver could be recovered from the tailings with Ammonium hydroxide, filtering the solution, then adding more muriatic, or hydrochloric acid to the ammonium hydroxide to cause the silver to reprecipitate out as a white powder, (silver chloride). This precipitate could then be placed in a glass dish with sulfuric acid and aluminum foil to convert the silver chloride to a gray powder known a cement silver. This product can then be smelted to produce metalic silver, and then further refined with the methods found elsewhere on this forum. 

My suggestion is to use some method to seperate the ore minerals from the gaunge matierial, thus concentrating the portion containing the values, then smelt them to lead as in a scorification assay, then use the scorification process to convert the bulk of the lead to lead oxide, (litharge). Once the lead has been reduced to 1/5 of its original volume, it can be disolved in aqua regia and the precious metals recovered from that solution with the aqua regia method, which can be found elsewhere on this forum. 

Hopefully your ore is of high grade. If not, you may well spend more than the recovered precious metals are worth. Just a word of caution. I hope that this has been of some help to you.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## Palladium

Welcome back Rock Man.


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## Richard36

Palladium said:


> Welcome back Rock Man.



Thanks for the welcome back. 

I look forward to answering any and all rock and mineral related questions. It has been a few months since I was here. I am surprised that I have had as few questions as I had. Anyway, I am back, and eager to chat, so ask away people. no question is to small or insignifigant. The only stupid question is the one not asked. 

Keep your eyes open for those soft (3 on Mohs scale of hardness, and can be scratched with a piece of copper wire)[though sometimes they can be as hard as 5 and require a knife blade to scratch them, and in this case they will feel quite heavy as well.] reddish brown rocks, such as cinnabar and ollitic ironstone. 
They can assay out as high as 30 oz per ton gold! 

I bet that gets some attention! lol!

Anyway, it is good to be back. I hope to answer some questions soon. General chat is welcome as well.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## butcher

Good to see you back rockman,
last time up in the hills I did collect some high Iron ore, oxidized by exposure, very heavy, and Iron so high it looks like rust, also has alot of pyrite, something I did notice about this is there was a silvery gray crystal layers and would fracture at these layers, the gray crystal does not show any sign of oxidation or corrosion even where exposed to elements,
with rainy season just starting havent got the old cement ball mill going yet, but will powder some and see what I can come up with,
I can test for copper silver gold and the platinum group's, but would have to do some homework to check for other metals higher in series, even if this is rich in anything besides the more precious I don't think I'll go through all the goverments red tape etc..to persue it, but would be fun and educational to figure out what's in that ore, I am here in southern oregon and as you know a very good and historical mining area, Josephine creek is just on the other side of the $8 mountain from my property, where gold was first discovered in southern oregon, the creek and county named after the young girl Josephine one of oregons first settlers.


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## Richard36

Thanks for the reply butcher.

Those silvery gray crystals are well worth having assayed. They might only be a variety of iron pyrite, but not likely, but even if they are, they will most likely contain some amount of gold and silver. What you are describing sounds alot like Sylvanite, (AgAuTe4 ) a silver gold telluride. The other possibilities are Argentite-Acanthite, ( Ag2S ) a silver sulfide, Glaucodot (Co, Fe)AsS, a cobalt iron arsenic sulfide, Skutterudite, (CoAs2-3) a cobalt arsenide. If it contains Cobalt, that is a strategic metal, and is worth looking into. If it contains enough to cause nitric acid to turn pink, you have a high grade cobalt ore, and is definitely worth mining. If it turns sulfuric acid red, it contains tellurium, and is worth mining for the its tellurium content as well as the gold and silver that it would contain. 

I am familiar with southern Oregon, and the Chetco is prime dredging ground. Too bad most of the gold is in the wilderness area, Though most of the drainage in that area does contain placer gold. All mineralized rock in that area should be well scrutinized. Just because you can not see the gold does not mean it is not there. Mineralized rock from that region will more often than not contain invisible micron gold bound up in solid solution within the sulfides, and or oxide minerals found there. Another point of interest is chrome ridge. It gets its name from its Chromite content, and is the largest Chromium deposit in the U.S. Uvarovite garnet, Chrome diopside, and Alexandrite can be found there as well.

Thanks for the post. I hope to hear back from you, and good luck. 
I look forward to reading and responding to further posts from you and others soon.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## Irons

Richard36 said:


> bobinpasask said:
> 
> 
> 
> Results were sample # 1 = <5 ppb Au, 10 ppb Pt 20 ppb Pd
> Sample # 2 = 25 ppb Au, 20 ppb PT and 20 ppb Pd
> 
> Would you say I am wasting my time taking more samples ??
> Thanks, Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure of the conversion mathematics on parts per billion to oz per ton. But personally, I do not even raise an eyebrow unless the material I assay contains at least 1/4 oz per ton Gold. The reason being the cost involved with the extraction, transporting the run of mine material, the crushing, separating the ore minerals from the gaunge (tailings/worthless rock), prepping the concentrated ore minerals, leaching or amalgamation to recover the gold from the ore minerals, and finally refining the gold itself. If you have all the equipment needed, and you are sure that any ton, or yard of ore extracted will produce enough valuable metals to pay for the steps involved to get to refined metal in hand, or concentrated ore minerals that can be shipped to a smelter that is willing to buy them, then by all means, proceed. If in doubt, proceed slowly, and with ample investigation. I have made the mistake that you are trying to avoid. It can be rather expensive, even on a small miner level. Some where on this forum I saw the mathematics for calculating ppb to oz per tn. I failed to write the equation down. If anyone knows where that is at, I would appreciate being told where to look, or a cut & paste of that equation made to a new post here. It would be of help to me, and to Bob. As for the black crystals in quartz, I will have to look that up. Black crystals in quartz could be good! Could be bad too, might cause you to glow in the dark! lol! Uraninite, Pitchblende, and a few other Uranium minerals are black, and form in quartz veins associated with Granite. They could just as easily contain tin, titainium, niobium, tantalum, thallium, or thorium. Thallium and thorium are radioactive. There are other metals that those black crystals could contain, but the metals that I listed are the most likely. What are the crystals shape, and how many sides do they have? That information would help me out allot, short of seeing a photo. Anyway, I hope that this has been of help to you. Sincerely; Rick...
> 
> 
> 
> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very informative Rick.
> I really like you are of expertise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks Palladium. I like to talk rocks. I hope that it shows. lol!
Click to expand...


1 PPM = 1 gram per Metric ton. (1000 kilos) 1000 PPB=1 PPM


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## Richard36

Irons said:


> 1 PPM = 1 gram per Metric ton. (1000 kilos) 1000 PPB=1 PPM



Thanks Irons. 
That is the equation I was refering to, and is much appreciated.

I look forward to further rock and mineral related questions from those reading this thread. 
general chat is welcome and appreciated as well. 

Sincerely; Rick.


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## Richard36

I just posted some photos under "The Rock Man".
Three are of that "Red Ore" that can have as much as 30 oz per ton Gold.

Enjoy!

Sincerely; Rick.


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## g_axelsson

butcher said:


> Last time up in the hills I did collect some high Iron ore, oxidized by exposure, very heavy, and Iron so high it looks like rust, also has alot of pyrite, something I did notice about this is there was a silvery gray crystal layers and would fracture at these layers, the gray crystal does not show any sign of oxidation or corrosion even where exposed to elements,



Hi Butcher!

I would suggest that you learn a few basic tools of testing in the field. One of the easiest test is to use an unglazed porcelain (or china) fuse. With it you can make a streak test, rub it against the unknown mineral and check the color of the streak. Most sulphides and oxides creates a black or gray streak in contrary to most silicates that gives a white streak.

The silvery crystals you describe sounds to me to be a silicate, possibly muscovite. Any sulphide would have been affected by weathering processes and should have shown some sort of change on the exposed areas. Do a streak test and tell us the color.

The next test to do is a hardness test. For example to see the difference between chalcopyrite and pyrite you only need to scratch it with an iron nail. Pyrite is quite hard while chalcopyrite is softer.

Just as in refining, don't run around blindly. There are a number of easy field tests you can do. Hardness, streak test, magnetic test, fracture, luster, cleavage, crystal form, color (but this is not very good), and so on. For more on this topic read wikipedias article on Physical properties of minerals.

/Göran


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## dick b

Thanks. Interesting article to read.
dickb


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## butcher

Thanks Goran, I am quite familiar with the pyritic and chalcopirte ore in my area, the china plate information will help me to run less blind, I can use help to identify ore, there are so many different types, some I do recognize, any help in this field is appreciated.


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## qst42know

The bottom of a spot plate is unglazed porcelain, and the top side is useful as well. :lol:


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## Richard36

butcher said:


> Last time up in the hills I did collect some high Iron ore, oxidized by exposure, very heavy, and Iron so high it looks like rust, also has alot of pyrite, something I did notice about this is there was a silvery gray crystal layers and would fracture at these layers, the gray crystal does not show any sign of oxidation or corrosion even where exposed to elements,





g_axelsson said:


> Any sulphide would have been affected by weathering processes and should have shown some sort of change on the exposed areas.



Hello g_axelsson.

In most cases, yes you are correct, but not all sulfides react readily with the Atmosphere. I know this to be a fact. There are plenty of places around here up "Quartzville Creek" that have sulfides that have been exposed to the atmosphere for thousands of years, and they are still shiny showing little if any oxidation. Most do decompose slowly, but not all. Probably has alot to do with the "Accessory Metals" bound up within them in solid solution. ("Accessory Metals" are metals not linked to the "Chemical Composition" of the mineral itself, but are within it, such as "Gold" is not part of the "Chemical Formula" for "Iron Pyrite", but is often found within it).

Aside from dissagreeing on this point, everything else you said is spot on.
As you said, it might not be a sulfide at all. 
If not, it would be a variety of mica, as you have said, and would therefore explain the ease of cleavage along that mineral seam.

My guesses were based on what I thought might be being described.

If Butcher could post a photo, chances are that I could identify the mineral in question. 

Questions, comments and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## butcher

Goran thanks again, rereading what you wrote, I noticed you said pyrite was hard and chalcopyrite was soft, in my area I find the opposite, here pyrite is so soft some types my thumb nail will crush, and some of the high copper chalcopyrite from mines I have worked was so hard a hammer has a time cracking it, also the fine pyrite can float almost and the chalcopyrite is much denser, was this a typo? and that link you posted was very helpful thanks.

one problem with book pictures of ore for me is that they either show a purer form of the mineral or rock, and in the field they usually are not that pure, and book pictures show one rock that may have a certain color and up in the hills this type may have several differing colors.

one way I found out about sulfide's years ago, I was trying to break up some chalcopyrite from an abandoned mine, and trying to find out what was in this old mine , why these men dug so far into this mountain? for years I would get crushed rock from there and pan it but couldn't find anything worth digging for, that far into a mountain, especially so far from the nearest road and back when wagons and mules were probably all these men had, and this ore would have to have been hauled some 30 t0 40 miles by wagons to a stamp mill to be processed and in those days those wagon roads, would have had to have been much worse than todays 4 wheel drive roads through these very steep mountains, these men would not have gone to this trouble for a worthless rock, well after years It dawned on me they were mining an ore that could not be panned and I probably could not see the mineral in this rock, done a study on mining and so I began to crush,and was going to try to leach it I had the idea to see if heat would make this hard rock crush easier, so I got out my torch and started to torch this rock to test this theory , to my surprise it did not shatter as many rocks do, it started to melt like glass, and gave off this familiar smell of sulfuric acid, what the heck is this? I questioned myself, so I looked for an answer, thats when I found out that most rocks were actually made from acids or bases, and this one was chalcopyrite, and when I leached this rock it is very high in copper, some gold, but my understanding of the leaching process was not so good at that time, so I probably did not get all I could from that ore, but it was a great expierience, and I did I did learn alot, since then I have studied alot, and from all of the knowledgeable people on this forum I have learned so much, and would really like to learn as much as possible about these rocks and minerals,and about refining, for me its not as important to get rich, if my family has a roof, and bread for supper, and the bills paid, I am happy, for me its to learn, (coarse it don't hurt when I put a little button in the poke for the day I can't put bread on the table), and with all of you guys so willing to share what you have learned I am gratful, for me, we can never learn it all, and when we quit learning, we are dying, or brain dead zombies. and when we think we know it all, we might as well become brain dead zombies. these newbies to the forum afraid to ask questions why? we all on this forum probably have learned just as much from the newbi, as we have from the profesional refiners on the forum, they ask many good questions, and when they get their answers we all learn. these newbies also have expierience of things we have not, I feel none of us are smarter than the other we just all have different expieriences in life, well of coarse there are a very few stupid people, but they would not be interested with all us for long. they would be brain dead zombies, thanks fellers for making this forum so GREAT.

Well I am like you were Rick about posting pictures, only I am also a computer dummy, I will TRY and get some picture inside the my computer, and post them. Rock Man I think I speak for many reader's when I say great to have you share your learning with us,


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## Richard36

butcher said:


> one problem with book pictures of ore for me is that they either show a purer form of the mineral or rock, and in the field they usually are not that pure, and book pictures show one rock that may have a certain color and up in the hills this type may have several differing colors.



Thanks for the reply Butcher.

That is a problem that I had back when I started out around 15 yrs ago, and got serious about prospecting.
Most "Rock and Mineral Books" are composed of photos taken from Private, as well as a few public collections.
As collectors, most strive to get samples that are as pristine as possible, and that does not help the novice all that well.

I suggest going to a few "Rock & Mineral Shows".
You will be able to look at, and handle various mineral samples there, as well as purchase specimins to add to your own collection of "Ore Minerals", and practice "Mineral Identification Tests" with them.

Here are some books I suggest that you, and others get to study with, as well as look up and read in concerning anything that I have posted about "Minerals and Geology".

National Audubon Society
Field Guide to North American Rocks and Minerals. To order by phone, (800) - 733 - 3000
ISBN 0-394-50269-8

Simon & Schuster's guide to 
Rocks and Minerals http://www.SimonSays.com
ISBN 0-671-24417-5

Dorling Kindersley Handbooks
Rocks and minerals http://www.dk.com
ISBN 1-56458-061-x

REBO PRODUCTIONS
Minerals Encyclopaedia http://www.rebo-publishers.com [email protected]
ISBN 184 0134 046
ISBN 1-84053-163-0

David & Charles
Minerals & Gemstones of the World
ISBN 0-7153-0197-7



butcher said:


> I will TRY and get some picture inside the my computer, and post them.
> Rock Man I think I speak for many reader's when I say great to have you share your learning with us,



Thanks for the compliment. 
Happy that I could, and can help.
I will be looking forward to seeing those photos.

Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Sincerely; Rick.


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## CHARLIE GREENLER

Hay Rock Man how much is a complete assay????????The material is Rhodite (rhodium ore).MANGANES,NICKLE,IRON,MOLEBDONITE,COPPER,CHROME,GALLIUM,IRRIDIUM,PLATNUM,GOLD,OSMIUM,PALLADIUM,RHODIUM,RHENIUM,RUBIDIUM,AND RARE EARTHS.I can drive the material to you .Do you have an ICP OR A HANDHELD EX-RAY SPECTOMETER.How do you assay? It is a complex ore !!!!!!!A freind of mine just had a 5600 pounder processed .(over 80 ounces of rhodium after it shot for 45 ounces)!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Charlie


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## Richard36

It sounds like you pretty much already know close to what all you need to know.
If you desire precise percentages of all those metals, send a sample to "Reed Labs",
and have a sample ran through a spectroscope.

That would be an honest suggestion from me.

Sure, I'll assay it for it's gold and silver content, but not the PGM's.
I can also test it to determine what other metals are within it, 
but what you seek is different from that.

Check out reed labs, unless your desire is simply to check the results that you have against what I can recover and test for the presence of.

Sincerely; Rick. "The Rock Man".


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## kjavanb123

Hi,

I know this is an old post but my experiment today is related to PGMs in river beds from ophiolite and dunite zones as was nentioned by Rick.

I picked ~200 grams of soil from dried river bed that at the source where all these grayish mountains and chromite ore mines.

Here is what screened sand prior to blue bowl process;



This is the sand after 20 mintues in blue bowl water was removed by a syringe;



Here is a shot of band of soil that black sand has accumlated;



Here is the black sand under the loupe 40 times bigger; notice the difference in color compare to serpantitie or dunite soils,



And



I think next step would be collecting more samples from upper river closer to the mine, concentrate them and pan the black sand follow by lead smelting to find out what possible PGMs it might contain.

Thanks forum for this much information.

Regards
Kj


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## Paul goldbugg

Richard36 said:


> The rock man commeth! ( laugh! ) I am surprised that no one has took me up on my offer to extend my hand in comradery to all those on this forum. Rocks and minerals were my thing long before I became a prospector and assayer. Ask me some questions people.


Hi Rock man 
I have been prospecting a old forgotten mining area that never had more than prospects for cu,au,ag, metals. The only thing i ever found in my pan 
Was a small piece of platinum. The record books say they had 2.5 opt au in one vein arsenopyrite. I have ore that has assayed 10gpt au 13opt ag was the lowest one so far. When i found it i had (recommended) action mining do 2 assays that came back crazy high amounts of au and up to 60 opt ag.
The book says metamorphic series of schist, conglomerate, quartzite, and greenstone cut by veins of quarts. There is a guy from Idaho that look at it but he ended up shafting me. Never got to see one assay from the samples he took but he said there were pgms. I know nothing about PGMs really not even a good prospector but this old digs found me. Love to talk to you about it.

Paul


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## Paul goldbugg

Paul goldbugg said:


> Hi Rock man
> I have been prospecting a old forgotten mining area that never had more than prospects for cu,au,ag, metals. The only thing i ever found in my pan
> Was a small piece of platinum. The record books say they had 2.5 opt au in one vein arsenopyrite. I have ore that has assayed 10gpt au 13opt ag was the lowest one so far. When i found it i had (recommended) action mining do 2 assays that came back crazy high amounts of au and up to 60 opt ag.
> The book says metamorphic series of schist, conglomerate, quartzite, and greenstone cut by veins of quarts. There is a guy from Idaho that look at it but he ended up shafting me. Never got to see one assay from the samples he took but he said there were pgms. I know nothing about PGMs really not even a good prospector but this old digs found me. Love to talk to you about it.
> 
> Paul


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