# platinum question



## myfalconry76 (Jul 15, 2016)

Sorry guys but I'm a little confused on this. From what I understand if I read it right. Platnium solution should be red! Is this correct? I've done a stannous test and there is platinum in the solution, but it's emerald green! Dose it change cholor as it evaps. Or did I miss something? Just to throw this in. I got it under control with the safety stuff. I like life  
Thank ya thank ya thank ya


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## Lou (Jul 16, 2016)

Easily the colored washed out by copper or nickel...


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## Geo (Jul 19, 2016)

Agreed. Copper or nickel or any other metal that is green in solution. I would say, from experience, dilute what you have by half with water and cement the values on copper. Agitate the solution frequently or add a bubbler just for the agitation. It does help oxidize the copper. After a day passes, remove the solution from the container and move the black powder to another container and add clean water. Add the solution back to the container and replace the copper. Any amount left may takes several days to completely cement out. You will have the most of the PM's after the first day.Once all of the PM's are out of solution, rinse them well with water. Once the copper(II) chloride Is dilute enough, it turns into milky green/white copper(I) chloride and it mixes with the black powder. Let it settle and decant the solution into a clean container. Be careful not to pour out any solids. Add to the solids a solution of water 90% and HCl 32° baume 10%. This will dissolve the copper(I) chloride but not the PGM powders. Repeat the water and dilute HCl rinses a few times until the solution stays color free. End with a water rinse. If you dissolve these powders, you will have your red solution. A word of warning, Platinum and by acquaintance, all other PGM's, are toxic when in an ionic state or when it is in solution. Pt is the primary component in chemotherapy treatments for cancer. The Pt kills the cancer at one rate of speed and it kills the person at a slower rate of speed. In theory, The cancer should die first. Platinum chloride is toxic to all living things.


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## nickvc (Jul 20, 2016)

To repeat Geos warning wear proper gloves, lab wear and avoid splashes when working with PGM solutions keep your work area clean and wash it down well if you do spill some solution, no one is sure how much exposure you need to become ill from them so keep the risk as low as possible.


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## Lino1406 (Jul 20, 2016)

While PM stannous test will end in black, after initial red/orange, copper or nickel will not


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 20, 2016)

nickvc said:


> To repeat Geos warning wear proper gloves, lab wear and avoid splashes when working with PGM solutions keep your work area clean and wash it down well if you do spill some solution, no one is sure how much exposure you need to become ill from them so keep the risk as low as possible.


 From what I've been reading about toxicity of pgms. It doesn't say anything about iminate death. There are a few health issues that can arise from exposer but even those are treatable. And studies on people that work with or around pgms for long periods of time are inconclusive. Not saying I'm not going to do my best to prevent health and safety problems. If proper safety is adhered to I shouldn't have any issue.even with minute exposer. Yet I will still do my best to mitigate that.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 20, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> From what I've been reading about toxicity of pgms. It doesn't say anything about iminate death. There are a few health issues that can arise from exposer but even those are treatable. And studies on people that work with or around pgms for long periods of time are inconclusive. Not saying I'm not going to do my best to prevent health and safety problems. If proper safety is adhered to I shouldn't have any issue.even with minute exposer. Yet I will still do my best to mitigate that.


I doubt I will change your mind, since you've discounted much of the advice you've been given in the past, so I won't waste my time trying.

For the benefit of anyone else who reads this thread in the future, Geo and Nick have given valid warnings about the dangers of platinum salts. Do NOT be comforted by myfalconry's statements. Platinum salts are very dangerous, and once one develops sensitivity to them, it is NOT treatable.

Dave


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jul 20, 2016)

Wel... He does have in his signature "on the word of no one, or, take nobodys word for it"

Guess he wants to find out for himself like todd


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## nickvc (Jul 21, 2016)

To repeat my warning, Geo's and Dave's.
Look up platinosis causes and effects and read it very carefully and fully digest what it says.
The problem is it's caused by small amounts of salts which never leave the body, like mercury poisoning it's progressive, your fine one day next your ill and stay ill or worse.


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## 4metals (Jul 21, 2016)

To discount or otherwise minimize the severity of platinosis is a disservice to others who may be reading this. It affects those who ignore its existence as those who are well aware of it's potential equally. 

Members who have been here long enough remember a very wise and valuable member here known as Freechemist, a PHd chemist who worked for a major refiner in Europe and succumbed to idiopathic fibrosis of the lung. Here was a man who had forgotten more than I have ever known about Platinum group metals, yet sadly he was a victim of platinosis. 

Do not underestimate the risk.


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 21, 2016)

FrugalRefiner said:


> myfalconry76 said:
> 
> 
> > From what I've been reading about toxicity of pgms. It doesn't say anything about iminate death. There are a few health issues that can arise from exposer but even those are treatable. And studies on people that work with or around pgms for long periods of time are inconclusive. Not saying I'm not going to do my best to prevent health and safety problems. If proper safety is adhered to I shouldn't have any issue.even with minute exposer. Yet I will still do my best to mitigate that.
> ...


 what the check are you talking about??? I haven't discounted any advice anyone has given me. I was simply stating what I have read. Don't blame for what the data states and other sources. I am talking precautions to be safe and healthy as everyone should. If I'm wrong and your so concerned with it maybe you should write some of the authors of theses documents and express your concerns to them. Even someone in this thread stated no one really knows how much is to much. I do promote safety and your concerns as I like my crappy life. But to jump down my throat and totally disregard the context of my post in such away other than adding clarity, well that's just being a bully. To further this note, I would also like to add I enjoy this forum and it's contents. I find it informative. But when some one makes a comment about littiture they have read and the information it contains. If it is wrong you can set your ego aside and give viable reasons instead of degrading the person who post it add clearity.


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 21, 2016)

4metals said:


> To discount or otherwise minimize the severity of platinosis is a disservice to others who may be reading this. It affects those who ignore its existence as those who are well aware of it's potential equally.
> 
> Members who have been here long enough remember a very wise and valuable member here known as Freechemist, a PHd chemist who worked for a major refiner in Europe and succumbed to idiopathic fibrosis of the lung. Here was a man who had forgotten more than I have ever known about Platinum group metals, yet sadly he was a victim of platinosis.
> 
> Do not underestimate the risk.


 Even though this post dose not go into detail about said topic. I find it a much better response. Way smoother. Thank and I will not underestimate the potential harm. Thank you!!!


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jul 21, 2016)

Can you post up some links to these articles/documents you speak of?

All i can find is information outlining the dangers of pgm salts on the human body.


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 21, 2016)

http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2689.pdf


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jul 21, 2016)

I didnt see anything in there about it being safe... Or that there is treatment/cures for sensitivity or poisoning.
That was a msds that read like a horror story. Not really anything i would want to take lightly.

Id rather be safe than sorry.

Hopefully im not the only one.


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## 4metals (Jul 21, 2016)

If this was football our behavior here would amount to piling on! The falcon man has acknowledged the potential of exposure and all continued postings can only lead to provocation, so let's all play nice and move on. 

Thanks for providing the link. I still think your birds are cool, and a natural solution to my groundhog issues!


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 21, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> I didnt see anything in there about it being safe... Or that there is treatment/cures for sensitivity or poisoning.
> That was a msds that read like a horror story. Not really anything i would want to take lightly.
> 
> Id rather be safe than sorry.
> ...


I didn't say it was safe, precautions should be taken. Over exposer is bad. And like I said I value my life. That's why I have modified my fume hood with a hinged plexi glass front. With holes and arm length gloves bonded to those holes, kinda like a incubator for babies where you can stick your arms in the gloves. But I must say I did this to protect myself from toxic fumes from the beginning.


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 21, 2016)

4metals said:


> If this was football our behavior here would amount to piling on! The falcon man has acknowledged the potential of exposure and all continued postings can only lead to provocation, so let's all play nice and move on.
> 
> Thanks for providing the link. I still think your birds are cool, and a natural solution to my groundhog issues!


Groundhogs, you would need a large furugenious hawk or a golden eagle. That's not to say that a large female red tailed hawk couldn't take one. But Groundhogs are very strong from digging and would put on one hell of a fight and have very strong jaws and large incisers to boot.
I highly recommend falconry to anyone who loves birds of prey and hunting.


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## 4metals (Jul 21, 2016)

Well those groundhogs certainly get plenty of exercise digging up my garden. And a week doesn't go by that I don't see a Bald Eagle fly over my pond but apparently they have no interest either. Must be a lot more tender easy takings around than bothering with a muscular old groundhog. 

At least my .22 still works!


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jul 21, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> I didn't say it was safe, precautions should be taken. Over exposer is bad. And like I said I value my life. That's why I have modified my fume hood with a hinged plexi glass front. With holes and arm length gloves bonded to those holes, kinda like a incubator for babies where you can stick your arms in the gloves. But I must say I did this to protect myself from toxic fumes from the beginning.



Ah, that sounds pretty safe... And interesting to say the least.

Please forgive my misinterpretation of your post. Im sorry for the misunderstanding. 

That does sound like a very good fume hood though. Id love to see some pictures. Whenever i see something thats done in a very creative and clever way, it gets the ol' juices goin' upstairs, then those gears start cranking...eventually spawning ideas (after the smoke clears)


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## Lou (Jul 21, 2016)

Glove box is the way to deal with the yellow salt, if you're going to manipulate it for thermal reduction.


When it goes for calcination, a silica boat, about 5" wide by 5" deep by 30" long, coated with ZrO2 wash with platinum sheet lining the inside is loaded with the still damp (NH4)2PtCl6. This can then be reduced in a tube furnace in a stream of Ar/5%H2 gas firstly at 400 C for 2.5 h and then at 900 C for 2.5 h until no more white smoke (NH4Cl) is seen. 

Lou


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 21, 2016)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> myfalconry76 said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't say it was safe, precautions should be taken. Over exposer is bad. And like I said I value my life. That's why I have modified my fume hood with a hinged plexi glass front. With holes and arm length gloves bonded to those holes, kinda like a incubator for babies where you can stick your arms in the gloves. But I must say I did this to protect myself from toxic fumes from the beginning.
> ...


I'll get some pics of it up when i get back home, this job I'm on here in Memphis only last for two weeks. But my fume hood is built from a d projector tv. I removed the insides, blocked of the front where the screen was. Sealed it tight. Then cut a widow that was 24x34 in the back. The tv case has a taper to it like most tv's and my exhaust is st the highest part of that taper. My vacume pump bubbles vapor through my stock pot, vapor from my stock pot is then through a bucket of water the through a bucket of rock and charcoal then its pulled through a hepafilter then out the vacume pump. Is this right? I truly do not know. But it dose take all the smell away.


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 21, 2016)

So if they treat cancer with platinum then in another 80 years there will be enough platinum in crematorium to make it worth recovering.


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## 4metals (Jul 21, 2016)

> So if they treat cancer with platinum then in another 80 years there will be enough platinum in crematorium to make it worth recovering.



It is worth recovering already from the dental material and pacemakers.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 22, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> Topher_osAUrus said:
> 
> 
> > myfalconry76 said:
> ...



Just across the river In Memphis,TN. Where are you working at?


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## myfalconry76 (Jul 22, 2016)

Working through a temp service, cleaning the electric plant. It's like working in a giant bird cage. It's a big tank sorta thing that water flows through lined and crossed with pipe spaced about 3" apart. From what I understand the pipes heat the water to create steam to turn generators. I guess, my job is to take this thing that is like a giant saw and about 40lbs and run it between the pipes to cut away a substance that is just slightly softer than red brick. It SUCKS!!! Hot muggy and physically painful on my hands back and arms. 10 he shifts for 12.00 a hour. And every minute I'm cussing wondering is it worth it. The hight point is the end of the damn day. At least they pay a 50.00 day perdium and pay for my hotel.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 22, 2016)

myfalconry76 said:


> Working through a temp service, cleaning the electric plant. It's like working in a giant bird cage. It's a big tank sorta thing that water flows through lined and crossed with pipe spaced about 3" apart. From what I understand the pipes heat the water to create steam to turn generators. I guess, my job is to take this thing that is like a giant saw and about 40lbs and run it between the pipes to cut away a substance that is just slightly softer than red brick. It SUCKS!!! Hot muggy and physically painful on my hands back and arms. 10 he shifts for 12.00 a hour. And every minute I'm cussing wondering is it worth it. The hight point is the end of the damn day. At least they pay a 50.00 day perdium and pay for my hotel.



Ah ok. So you are cleaning out the tubes from the heat exchanger. Yea nasty dirty work. Good luck with it. Weather here right now is hot a humid so I feel for you doing this work. Good luck.


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## Daniel0007a (Sep 21, 2022)

Well, your sample prob very contaminated with copper or nickel or both. Here a video on how to purify Pt from waste I found it very interesting.


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 21, 2022)

Daniel0007a said:


> Well, your sample prob very contaminated with copper or nickel or both. Here a video on how to purify Pt from waste I found it very interesting.



The last post you are adressing was made in 2016, so don't expect any replies.


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## Daniel0007a (Sep 26, 2022)

I heard Platnium is very hard to dissolve in Aqua Regas even 70% Nitric will give you issues. PMC (Poorman chemist) made some Pt chemical complexes but he had a hard time making them. However, One method is to run pt threw electricity with HCl. Highly concentrated HCl and chlorine gas with Pt if the Pt is thin enough. 

Pt electrodes would be ideal for me but many on eBay are fake. Pt in HCl with electricity generates chlorine in situ.


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 27, 2022)

Daniel0007a said:


> I heard Platnium is very hard to dissolve in Aqua Regas even 70% Nitric will give you issues. PMC (Poorman chemist) made some Pt chemical complexes but he had a hard time making them. However, One method is to run pt threw electricity with HCl. Highly concentrated HCl and chlorine gas with Pt if the Pt is thin enough.
> 
> Pt electrodes would be ideal for me but many on eBay are fake. Pt in HCl with electricity generates chlorine in situ.


Have you read C.M. Hokes book?


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## orvi (Sep 27, 2022)

Daniel0007a said:


> I heard Platnium is very hard to dissolve in Aqua Regas even 70% Nitric will give you issues. PMC (Poorman chemist) made some Pt chemical complexes but he had a hard time making them. However, One method is to run pt threw electricity with HCl. Highly concentrated HCl and chlorine gas with Pt if the Pt is thin enough.
> 
> Pt electrodes would be ideal for me but many on eBay are fake. Pt in HCl with electricity generates chlorine in situ.


Not hard, but slow. Rolling it flat, or atomizing the metal greatly reduce the dissolution time. Nitric won´t do anything on solid metal Pt.
What you intend to do ?


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## Daniel0007a (Sep 27, 2022)

Make Hydroplatanic acid (HPtCl6).


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## Daniel0007a (Sep 27, 2022)

If i can afford to I may Electroplate Pt wire or a bar and add conc HCL in a beaker and run electricity threw it and vent the chlorine thus the chlorine and HCL should dissolve the Pt slowly. Nurdrage told me once that electroplating pt in HCl creates chlorine gas. I prob set up a round flat bottom flask with stoppers and vent the chlorine if I wanted too.

I mean a 13 volt (0-2) amp power supply.


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 27, 2022)

Daniel0007a said:


> If i can afford to I may Electroplate Pt wire or a bar and add conc HCL in a beaker and run electricity threw it and vent the chlorine thus the chlorine and HCL should dissolve the Pt slowly. Nurdrage told me once that electroplating pt in HCl creates chlorine gas. I prob set up a round flat bottom flask with stoppers and vent the chlorine if I wanted too.
> 
> I mean a 13 volt (0-2) amp power supply.


Any voltage over 3-5 volts in salt water will create Hydrogen and Chlorine.
Cheaper to use Graphite electrodes and HCl, then vent the chlorine into the HCl bath for dissolving the Pt.
Simplest though is Aqua Regia


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## Daniel0007a (Sep 27, 2022)

Sadly it is Illegal for an individual to buy Nitric acid I made 1.6 moles of Nitric acid in 6-8 moles of HCl but that was too weak.


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## Daniel0007a (Sep 27, 2022)

At least in Quebec.


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 27, 2022)

Nitric is always available, but it might need licenses or permits to have and buy.
A tips to you.
Keep away from dissolving Platinum Group metals, their toxicity are much higher than any other salts we encounter.
Even many professional Refiners will not touch them.


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## Daniel0007a (Sep 27, 2022)

Yes I know they are more toxic but for me NItric acid is restricted I don't have a professional lab. Homelab.









Nitric Acid


Reagent ACS Solution, (~15.8M) RESTRICTED COMPONENTS REGULATIONS OF THE EXPLOSIVES ACT Prolab Scientific is registered with the Explosives Regulatory Division of Natural Resources Canada (NRCan). This chemical is available only to canadian schools and industries. It is no longer...




prolabscientific.com


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## Daniel0007a (Sep 27, 2022)

I wish i could safely make Nitric acid with drain cleaner and potassium nitrate salt but I stay clear from it since for me it can be very dangerous.


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