# Ammonia and surfactant



## pslyde (Mar 25, 2013)

Currently, I use ammonia with surfactant. It's not the yellow stuff; the ingredient label says ammonium hydroxide, water, surfactant. I have to be very careful when boiling. And then it takes many rinses with water to get rid of the surfactant. I only do ammonia wash once the hcl and water washes stop being productive. Which brings up a question: do you think that there are any PM's in the ammonia rinse and subsequent water rinses? I've been saving the liquid (separately from everything else), just in case.

I've had no luck finding surfactant-free ammonium hydroxide, short of ordering it online and paying hazmat fees. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## butcher (Mar 25, 2013)

pslyde, I have no Idea what you are using this ammonia on, or why, so it is hard to give any advice

Except that ammonia and metals can create explosives, for this reason you should have a very good understanding of the reactions you use it in, also ammonia waste should always be kept separate from other waste for this very reason.

surfactants are usually soaps, surely you can find some more pure ammonia solution, and boiling is a good way to put ammonia in the air as gas, depending on concentration you could just be boiling off ammonia gas, just wasting what ammonia you have, ammonia has a very low boiling point.



ammonia is a gas its boiling point is -33.3 deg C. or -28 deg F.

ammonium hydroxide's boiling point can be below the boiling point of water.
25% NH4OH boiling point 37.7 deg C. or 99.8 deg F.
32% NH4OH boiling point 24.7 deg C. or 764 deg F.

I do not see how you could boil and clean out the soap or whatever the surfactant is unless you are talking about distilling, and even that would not make much sense to me.

Surfactants are usually organic compounds that are amphiphilic, meaning they contain both hydrophobic groups and hydrophilic groups Therefore, a surfactant contains both a water insoluble (or oil soluble) component and a water soluble component. Surfactants will diffuse in water and adsorb at interfaces between air and water.
There are also metal anionic surfactants with: sulfate, sulfonate, phosphate, and carboxylates. alkyl sulfates, ammonium lauryl sulfate, sodium lauryl sulfate as well as others.

Refining is dangerous enough, ammonia in refining is extremely dangerous, but adding organic Surfactants to this could really case a dangerous situation in my opinion.

Look for clear household ammonia, try a different store, the Grocery stores, Wall-mart Bi-mart, True Value hardware, Lowe's or other hardware stores, you may even have it at the dollar store.


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## pslyde (Mar 26, 2013)

I am aware of the dangers, and treat it carefully, but thank you for the warning. Never hurts to be cautious, especially if someone even newer than myself reads this thread.

I use it for washing gold precipitate, after hcl and water washes become unproductive. Then I rinse it several times with water to get out as much surfactant as possible. I was wondering if the ammonia rinse or subsequent water rinses contain PM's. I wonder if there are trace amounts that may be worth concentrating and processing in the future.

When I say ammonia, I mean ammonium hydroxide, bought as the clear household ammonia. If you notice, the household ammonia that you buy at those stores all include surfactant on the labels. Which is why I'm looking for somewhere that carries surfactant-free ammonia. Or have I just not been to the right store?


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## Lino1406 (Mar 26, 2013)

Aim: purifying gold from last traces of AgCl
One alternative could be using solution of ammonium chloride
with NaOH


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## solar_plasma (Mar 26, 2013)

> surfactant.



Generally, whenever possible, I would try to buy pure chemicals, produce them by myself or maybe purifying them, if it can be done safely. There are just too many unnecessary variables to deal with. Ok,if there is something many have tried out to be save or a chemist says that's ok, it probably will be ok... I dislike the usage of such blends.


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## lazersteve (Mar 26, 2013)

ACE hardware carries 10% ammonium hydroxide in quart and gallon jugs. Great stuff, no additives. It is not advisable to use ammonia in your reactions for several reason. As others have stated ammonia compounds can be explosive, especially when dry. Ammonia also has a bad habit of showing up later when you are trying to neutralize your wastes before disposal. 

If you must use reagents that contain ammonia, keep all of the waste solutions from your work in a separate container and keep them acidified.

Steve


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## pslyde (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks, Steve! Exactly what I was looking for. Guess I missed a place when I was shopping.

Edit: The nearest ACE is almost an hour away. Yeah, I live in the middle of nowhere. So I called every hardware store within that radius, to no avail. ACE did have it: and a few other things that I usually have to make several stops for. ACE is my new favorite place to shop. Also, the people there really are that helpful.


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## gaterg (Apr 4, 2013)

While you are at ace they also sell sulfuric acid in a bottle labeld "ROOTO". They sell it in the plumbing supply section.


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