# I bought a hho torch but I'm having hard time getting cemented powders to melt



## Sorrycantseeme (Jun 20, 2020)

Any idea why I'm having a hard time getting the pgm powders I recovered from cementing to melt in alumina crucible with hho torch ?


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## FrugalRefiner (Jun 20, 2020)

Can you post a picture of your torch head next to your crucible? Ideally, a picture of the torch lit and heating your material.

I used to use an HHO torch for jewelry repairs. While it got quite hot, the flame was very small. The torch tips were actually hypodermic needles. So they were effective on small items, but struggled on larger pieces. And I was just soldering pieces, not trying to melt them. I was also working with gold, not PGMs which have a much higher melting point.

It looks like your crucible is sitting on a brick. The brick will draw heat away from your crucible nearly as fast as you can put it in with your torch. You need some insulation around your crucible like some ceramic wool or something similar to help the crucible retain the heat you're trying to apply.

So bottom line, I suspect your torch is too small for what you're trying to melt, but that's just a guess until I see the torch in comparison to the crucible.

Dave


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## Sorrycantseeme (Jun 21, 2020)

I thought it would at least melt lil bit


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## FrugalRefiner (Jun 21, 2020)

Well, your torch is a bit bigger than the one I used, but it still may not be up to the job. You can try using some insulation around your crucible. You might also try melting something with a lower melting point, like silver, to see if it can do that, then work your way up to PGMs.

Dave


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 21, 2020)

Hmm!
Scrathing my bald head here.
It may be the picture, but is that color right for a Hydrogen flame?
Should it not be blueish white?
Are you actually using hydrogen in it?


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## butcher (Jun 21, 2020)

I agree the picture looks like the flame lacks oxygen or is a reducing flame, the carbon on the melting dish also looks to be carbon.

I also wonder if the fuel being used is hydrogen and not some other hydrocarbon gas fuel being used in the torch?

Even if a torch can achieve a hot enough temperature to melt certain metal, it may fail to do so if your melting dish or what it is sitting on is a big heat sink and absorbs the heat produced faster than the torch can provide it, sucking away the heat needed to be able to melt the metal.

From the picture, the dish looks to be sitting on a concrete floor which will absorb a lot of heat from the melting dish.


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 21, 2020)

Another observation that missed me first time.
There are only one valve there, are there no separate O2 line to the torch?
Or are it supposed to use premixed H2 O2?
That would be quite dangerous would it not?


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## FrugalRefiner (Jun 21, 2020)

The torch I used only had one valve as well. The oxygen and hydrogen are not separated as they are produced, so there is simply the one control. The gas bubbles through a reservoir that can be filled with the solution the user chooses, which affects its temperature when it burns. If I remember correctly, we used acetone in ours. There was a list of possible solutions and the resulting temperature. There was very little gas volume in the reservoir, and there was a flashback arrestor at the top. I never had any issues with the one I used.

I've seen videos of home made units and flashbacks are a definite concern with them.

Dave


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 21, 2020)

Thanks Dave.
Reassuring :wink:


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## goldandsilver123 (Jun 21, 2020)

Yggdrasil said:


> Hmm!
> Scrathing my bald head here.
> It may be the picture, but is that color right for a Hydrogen flame?
> Should it not be blueish white?
> Are you actually using hydrogen in it?



Probably he is using NaOH as the electrolyte, the color is from Na. Or the solution is contaminated

Must increase the BTU power of the torch, which is more gas, tip temperature is quite different from crucible temperature.

In this scale I would use an LPG/O2 torch


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## Sorrycantseeme (Jun 21, 2020)

The black came from heating the dish with these 2 on the left , mapp and old fashioned blow torch filled with propane .
Yes I'm using sodium hydroxide and methyl alcohol is there a better solution .

I don't understand I seen the XRF 2 different machines . 
One read 80% PD the other read 66% PD . 
How is it possible it won't melt .


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