# Who would have thought?



## everydayisalesson (Aug 15, 2013)

So I have been posting on ebay now for well over a year. I personally have never had any troubles as I do my best to be completely honest about everything and take many pictures. I then found GRF back in January. I thought this is great, and I have learned a lot. So after collecting many items over the many months that have gone by I had decided to clear out a bunch of it. And I also needed the money, as I am leaving now for a funeral in Indiana. This is the main reason for selling the gold chain I put up, otherwise it would stay in my safe. Thinking people here would be interested and knowing also that it would increase my bids I decided to post in this section of the forum the items I was putting up for sale. 

To make an even longer story short, as I said never a problem on ebay. I sell 8 items over the weekend. The only items that did not get paid for were the items I advertised here. I have some ideas as to why they would do this but I'll just keep that part to my self. I just wanted everyone to know in case there was ever a problem. The buyers names were Sam Love from Homewood, Illinois; Jeff Fuller from Zephyrhills, Florida; and Felix Flores from St. Louis, Missouri. The thing that really gets me is they won't even respond to emails. Now I have to wait four more days before I go to the next bidder.

I had a lot more to say and this may not be the place to do it but as I said I am now leaving for a funeral. Moderators, you can delete if you want and I apologize for this rant but this really was an odd situation.....Mike


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 15, 2013)

At present, the forum has 23,000+ members. There are no requirements for joining and we end up with a wide spectrum of types of people. Just like in society, some are honest and some aren't. We try to weed the bad ones out. Do you know the forum usernames of the 3 people you listed?


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## MysticColby (Aug 15, 2013)

unfortunately, ebay doesn't have any punishment for non-paying buyers (near as I can tell). It seems the worst that happens to them is they won't get to enjoy the gold you were selling. This is because the likely thing for you to do is to cancel the sale to them, so you don't get charged ebay fees, and in so doing, you don't get to leave them feedback.
Whenever that happens to me, I will usually re-list the item. you can offer the next-highest bidder, but I find that once they don't win it, they move on, find a new one, and don't need/want it anymore. more often than not it will sell for more than the first time.


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## NobleMetalWorks (Aug 15, 2013)

everydayisalesson said:


> I sell 8 items over the weekend. The only items that did not get paid for were the items I advertised here. I have some ideas as to why they would do this but I'll just keep that part to my self.



So let me get this right, you posted three items on this forum, that you had up for sale on ebay. Did you have any other auctions that have to do with gold refining up for sale at the same time on ebay? Because frankly, I see a lot of other things besides gold bearing material for refining, or karat jewelry. If you only had three items that contained gold, then those were the only three items you should be posting here anyway.

Also, one of your auctions ended on Sunday, that person has from Monday to Thur to pay, then you may open a dispute only after 4 days, then there is another 4 days the buyer has to pay, so technically the buyer has 8 days to pay for an item.

You jumped the gun a little, if you were to discount Sunday as being a day that a person should pay, your 4th day would be Friday, and Thur on the auctions that ended Saturday.

If I had bid on your items, and you had posted something negative here on the forum about me, I would have raised holy you know what. I would contact ebay, let them know what has transpired, and then fought paying you anything. If you were looking for payment, then you have put yourself into a situation where someone would not want to pay.

And frankly speaking, when you strip the components off cell phone boards, you removed a good portion of the values. And your cell phones are not worth the winning bid even if you were able to extract all the value, after processing you would probably loose money. And the final one, the gold chain, wasn't worth the money the auction went for, when it ended. The people who won your auctions probably figured out their mistake and decided not to pay. Although they should make payment on bids they make, I can see what your problem is. You are selling material for more than it's value, or so close that nobody can make anything off it. You would be better off selling your gold to a local refinery, you could probably get 98% spot on it and not hassle with payments online.

But I want to reiterate, I don't like the fact you are blaming this forum for someone not paying, I don't like the fact you are insinuating it was someone on this forum, and I believe you jumped the gun anyway. If I were you, I would retract your statement because even if it was someone on this forum, after you threw them under the bus before they HAD to pay, you negated any possibility of stating they did anything wrong even after the allotted time would have passed. A person's reputation is very important, specially in this space when it's all we have to go on when judging someone else and doing business with that person.

Scott


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## pgms4me (Aug 15, 2013)

Mike ,I agree with Scott, I have been selling on ebay for 14 years and have had my share of non-paying bidders. I give them at least 7 days before sending a 2nd invoice. Sometimes, (including myself), people are away from the computer for a few days,they could be sick or had an accident. Even though ebay lets you file a non-paying bidder complaint after 4 days ,it's too soon to jump the gun. Donn


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## everydayisalesson (Aug 16, 2013)

Hello all, and thank you for your responses, it looks as though I had 2 for and 2 against. Now that I have the time, I would like to explain my position on this matter. First and foremost, Felix Flores has paid and honored his obligation and his non payment case has been closed. Now I am hoping that does not offend anyone but that is how I see ebay auctions. Once you place a bid, and win, you are now responsible for that item. While I have only been on ebay for about a year, I have been in sales literally my whole life in one form or another. This is the same reason you must write a letter of intent when you are buying a house, you are stating that you are serious about your decision. It was not the fact of them not paying that ticked me off as much as it was that they would not answer the emails that were sent. I have allowed people time to pay in the past and I have also cancelled the sale when they decided they did not want the item. Anyone can make a mistake or change their mind but without communication how could I know. You say that I jumped the gun. Before ever posting my first item on ebay, I researched what and how I should conduct sales as this was a new environment for me. I read two books specifically written by ebay power sellers and I couldn't tell you how many videos I watched. The biggest messages that I picked up on was to make sure I followed ebay guidelines, especially about trademarks, be totally honest with all listings, and be in constant communication with your customers. One other thing stood out from everything I read and that was to take care of business. They said to immediately send invoices and answer any questions that may arise and I have held to this practice since day one. Within moments of an auction closing, I send a thank you and an invoice. From what I learned, many of ebay sales are impulse buys. If that be the case, you want to put that item in your customers hand within days which is why I ship everything I sell the next day. 

Yes, the only things I mentioned on GRF were gold bearing items. I did not come on here to tell everyone about the vintage raggady anne doll because that wouldn't make sense.....by the way, I will be listing that next week, lol.

In the words of ebay....If you don't receive payment, you can open an unpaid item case in the Resolution Center as early as 2 days or up until 32 days after the listing ended (or immediately if the buyer is no longer registered on eBay). 

I do understand that things happen and you cant get back to your computer and for people like that, all is cool and I work it out but the way ebay is set up, if you don't start the process, you don't have a leg to stand on. This is what I read in the community pages too. Give buyers 48 hours, then start the unpaid item case. If no one had bid, it would not have been that big of a deal but the fact was I had a lot of bidders and that means now I am stuck. I am at the mercy of the buyer, they are holding my money. What is the last thing you see when walking out of any store in America? A cashier, if you want it, buy it, if not, don't. Don't hold someones item and keep them from making money.

You also talked about the boards. Scott, I asked someone how much gold they could get off of them and was told about a gram and a half, I don't refine so I took their word for it. If thats the case, they wouldn't lose anything. By the way, thats what Felix bought. Last thing, the necklace, I took spot price (1300), divided by 31 (41), multiplied by .6 for the fact it was 14k (24.6), multiplied by 8.6 grams(211). I started the auction at $175. But honestly, if I said $2000 and someone wanted to buy it, I would not say no. Would you?

Maybe I should have handled it better, maybe not. Gold silver pro seemed to understand what I was saying. I didn't actually accuse anyone of anything. I did make it public knowledge of what transpired and I don't apologize for that. As for reputations, I believe a person is totally responsible for maintaining their reputation. If they bid on something and changed their mind, all they had to do was communicate.


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## Harold_V (Aug 17, 2013)

Very well presented, everydayisalesson. 
Speaking as a moderator, frankly, I like it.

I have little use for those who make commitments and then don't follow through. Given the opportunity, I'll ban them from the board for nothing more. It speaks volumes about the sleazy type of person they are. 

Harold


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 17, 2013)

NobleMetalWorks said:


> I don't like the fact you are insinuating it was someone on this forum, and I believe you jumped the gun anyway. If I were you, I would retract your statement because even if it was someone on this forum, after you threw them under the bus before they HAD to pay, you negated any possibility of stating they did anything wrong even after the allotted time would have passed. A person's reputation is very important, specially in this space when it's all we have to go on when judging someone else and doing business with that person.


I agree, it is wrong to insinuate someone is involved in something unless you have proof.



> Without point a finger at specific people I can also say that the way the person writes is very similar to another post I just read.





> I would hate to think someone is promoting their sales on ebay, by playing us for fools. It would be better if that person just came out and said what they were doing!





> Are you the person selling this process on ebay?


Dave


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## NobleMetalWorks (Aug 17, 2013)

I still say posting their names on a public board, when you have no idea if they belong to this board is not only assuming too much and insinuating it was a member of this board was wrong. But more importantly you are using this forum as a way to express your disgust or anger and post extra negative feedback on a forum that has nothing to do with ebay. 

In other words you shouldn't be posting who failed to pay you on ebay on this board unless it was a board member.

Not only that but regardless of when ebay allows you to post a claim, they will do nothing for at least 4 days, and only settle in 8.

When I have a problem with a sale or customer outside of this forum, who I don't know if they are a member or not. I do not post their name and accuse them of non-payment. The two are mutually exclusive. I believe I would only be within my right if I posted my business here, conducted the transaction through this forum, and discussed it or made an agreement through this forum. You conducted your business on ebay and don't even know if your non payment auctions are people who belong to this forum.

Although I agree with Harold and feel the same. I still feel you have accused members or at least insinuated members of this board of non payment without knowing. And in my humble opinion I think when you don't conduct your business through this forum, or at least know for a fact one of the people you have issue with is a member of this forum. You should keep your business disputes and complaints off this forum.

I think you have made it seem it was forum members, and have not been clear about the fact you don't know. You did not PM them here. You did not sell to them here. You did not conduct your business here. So why are you complaining here?

Scott


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## everydayisalesson (Aug 17, 2013)

You know what Scott. I read what you wrote and instantly had many things come to mind I could say to you but I am not going to do that. All I am going to say is maybe I threw that info out there fishing to see who might get mad. Hmmmm.

Good day sir.
Mike


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## its-all-a-lie (Aug 18, 2013)

everydayisalesson said:


> You know what Scott. I read what you wrote and instantly had many things come to mind I could say to you but I am not going to do that. All I am going to say is maybe I threw that info out there fishing to see who might get mad. Hmmmm.
> 
> Good day sir.
> Mike



Are you insinuating Scott is one of your non-paying bidders? I believe the mud is about to get thick around your feet!


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## NobleMetalWorks (Aug 18, 2013)

everydayisalesson said:


> You know what Scott. I read what you wrote and instantly had many things come to mind I could say to you but I am not going to do that. All I am going to say is maybe I threw that info out there fishing to see who might get mad. Hmmmm.
> 
> Good day sir.
> Mike



You need to look for your answers on ebay! I have done business here on this forum, the scrap metal forum, and ebay. I take my business, and my word, very serious. I have no blemishes on my record.

You would have done better to have posted the ebay names of the people you believe owe you payment if anything. But like I said you don't even know if it is a member of this forum. 

I expect the removal of your insinuation, and an apology posted in this thread. I am afraid that nothing short of that will do for me.

And if you would like I will speak with you by phone and express my points directly.

Scott


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## NobleMetalWorks (Aug 18, 2013)

And just one more thing, I sell on ebay, I keep my business there separat from here. I never buy scrap off ebay and have over 1000 transactions. I have been using ebay for well over 10 years and still 100% feedback!

Scott


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## AndyWilliams (Aug 18, 2013)

everydayisalesson said:


> I sell 8 items over the weekend. The only items that did not get paid for were the items I advertised here. I have some ideas as to why they would do this but I'll just keep that part to my self. I just wanted everyone to know in case there was ever a problem. The buyers names were Sam Love from Homewood, Illinois; Jeff Fuller from Zephyrhills, Florida; and Felix Flores from St. Louis, Missouri. The thing that really gets me is they won't even respond to emails. Now I have to wait four more days before I go to the next bidder.
> 
> I had a lot more to say and this may not be the place to do it but as I said I am now leaving for a funeral. Moderators, you can delete if you want and I apologize for this rant but this really was an odd situation.....Mike



Mike, 

Don't pay too much attention to Scott. I think his defense mechanism is to belabor a point beyond where most people would bother to argue, just so the other party tires of the argument. 

As I see it, you didn't do anything wrong, no apology needed. Notably, Scott is the only person demanding that you apologize.

It is a weird coincidence that you had slow payers on those items, and that those were the only items you advertised here. Making that connection isn't a far-fetched proposition. I appreciate that you posted the names, as I wouldn't want to do business with folks who don't come through, timely, on their commitments, notwithstanding the more than generous time limits of Ebay. I certainly don't think you should stand mute, making no comment, because you don't know their user names.

Andy


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## patnor1011 (Aug 18, 2013)

Open dispute in resolution center. If they will not pay forget it. You will get your final sale fees back and you can either send offer to second highest bidder or re-list items again. They get unpaid item strike. Problem sorted.
It happened to many people and you are not first nor last. You do not know reason why they did not pay you can only speculate about reason. No need to waste time with waiting, be sure that you will block them from bidding in future. That is all you can do.


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## everydayisalesson (Aug 18, 2013)

Thank you gentleman for your responses. No I am not insinuating Scott has done anything. As a matter of fact I really doubt it was him. What I was doing is poking fun at his challenges. But Scott, I will accept your apology whenever your ready to give it.....................For what you say?.................Your second comment above points out how this is my business, and somehow you have decided to make yourself a part of it without invitation. I posted in the ebay section as a mere point of information. If all of them would have payed, they would have been vindicated and I would have retracted my statements. This did not happen, one person payed and the others did not pay which shows that I was right in alerting this forum to the unscrupulous behavior of the other two gentleman. Scott, we could go back and forth on this forever but I am not going to do that. You want to be the winner of this pissing contest?(sorry for the language) You win. Now you can go and tell all your buddies what a big man you are.

Mike


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## NobleMetalWorks (Aug 18, 2013)

AndyWilliams said:


> Mike,
> 
> Don't pay too much attention to Scott. I think his defense mechanism is to belabor a point beyond where most people would bother to argue, just so the other party tires of the argument.
> 
> ...



Well I'm sorry you felt that way Andy, I posted exactly what I thought, and when it seems I am misunderstood I make an attempt to explain it more clearly. You may call that whatever you like. I simply think it's wrong to accuse people on this forum when there is no proof, innuendo and insinuation seem poor substitutes for facts and empirical data to me. When you accuse without proof, it seems you are really just causing drama and pointedly disrupting what this forum I think is all about. Then when you do it with the purpose of making other people angry:


everydayisalesson said:


> All I am going to say is maybe I threw that info out there fishing to see who might get mad.


I am not sure why anyone would be surprised when someone is mad. I don't know why it's a surprise when someone stands up and says that what is being done, effectively accusing unknown people on this forum for cheating him, which really amounts to attacking everyone's credibility, is wrong. How can that be right?

So next time I have a problem with someone paying me on an ebay auction, I can post there names here, not knowing if they are a member, and everyone will be okay with that?

Scott


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## NobleMetalWorks (Aug 18, 2013)

everydayisalesson said:


> Thank you gentleman for your responses. No I am not insinuating Scott has done anything. As a matter of fact I really doubt it was him. What I was doing is poking fun at his challenges. But Scott, I will accept your apology whenever your ready to give it.....................For what you say?.................Your second comment above points out how this is my business, and somehow you have decided to make yourself a part of it without invitation. I posted in the ebay section as a mere point of information. If all of them would have payed, they would have been vindicated and I would have retracted my statements. This did not happen, one person payed and the others did not pay which shows that I was right in alerting this forum to the unscrupulous behavior of the other two gentleman. Scott, we could go back and forth on this forever but I am not going to do that. You want to be the winner of this pissing contest?(sorry for the language) You win. Now you can go and tell all your buddies what a big man you are.
> 
> Mike



Perhaps we can start a new section on the forum for all people on ebay that fail to pay on an auction, regardless if they are forum members or not. Maybe I am wrong, and we should make blanket innuendos, attacking everyone's credibility so that this forum builds a name for itself for harboring unknown people who fail to pay on ebay auctions. I think what you have said demeans this forum. I think it demeans each and every individual who belongs to this forum. What you have effectively done is held everyone of us as being possible suspects for your auctions not being paid on. You stood in our room, and pointed a finger at all of us and said "one of you has not yet paid on my auction" when you are not even sure anyone here is to blame.

I take offense, I expressed it in a way I think makes logical sense. I am not arguing, I am stating my opinion. I am not looking to win anything, so far as I am concerned I have lost something here and you are the one who took it from me, as well as anyone who is associated with this forum. I think you stated your post very cleverly, I think you did exactly what you stated you did, you wanted to make people mad because you were upset someone didn't pay on your auction, and guess what, your master plan worked.

If you think this is an argument sir, you are gravely mistaken. This is me, standing up for what I believe is right, against something I think is petty, and cheap, and wrong. This is me believing that there are still good people in the world, and even better ones that belong to this community, and I believe for the most part, most people are what I describe regardless if there are a few bad apples. And I believe you have gone out of your way to insult all of us, and I wish you could understand why it matters so much.

I think you are too caught up in your own indignant self righteous pursuit of the money owed to you by people who you don't know but think are members of this forum. I think that you didn't think through what you were doing, before you did it.

I still expect an apology, I do not take making stabs at my credibility lightly, and nor should you. I didn't state anything about yours, and did not deserve your comments. If I did something wrong then I ask please, let a moderator tell me so and I will be more than happy to post a public apology in this thread for all to see.

Scott


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## Harold_V (Aug 18, 2013)

Ok, knock it off you guys.

The only problem I have with any (or all) of this is that we don't know for certain that the buyers are readers of this forum. If they are, they shouldn't be, but unless or until their identity can be ascertained, they will most likely remain. However, I'll have no problem banning them if everything is as been stated. I don't want anyone on this board who isn't responsible. 

While there may be a sense of accusing the board in the comments posted, I fail to see how it would be in jeopardy. If facts have been reported, I endorse what has been said. 

Unfortunately, this board has open registration. No screening involved--anyone can become a registered reader, providing almost nothing in the way of credentials, or disclosing who they are, or what they have in mind. We're going to get our share of nut cases or trouble makers. 

Get back to refining. Scott---take a deep breath and relax. 

Harold


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## everydayisalesson (Aug 18, 2013)

Scott, that was the first time you addressed me in a polite manner. Maybe I mistook what you said but it seemed to me every comment you were making was to belittle me. I got back up cause I didn't like the way I left off. I do apologize if I have offended you and I apologize to anyone else I may have offended. As I stated before, maybe I was right, maybe not. You guys have a good night,.................even you Scott.

Mike


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## niteliteone (Aug 18, 2013)

Harold_V said:


> (snip)
> We're going to get our share of nut cases or trouble makers.
> Harold


Hey !!!
I resemble that remark. :shock:

Anyway, I made the first bid on the necklace\cross and in no way feel slighted by this thread, but instead insulted that the winner basically stole my chance to purchase that item by out-bidding me then failing to pay as implied by the bidders contract.

Any person that partakes in that type of activity needs to be publicly flogged and called out as the lowlife their actions prove they are where ever they are to be found. People have the right to know who abuses others in any way. How else will people know who the abusers are if we are not allowed to speak of them publicly.

(ie... I was ready to send Barrenrealms (?) a large donation to help him in his bad fortune. (sick wife and son) That is until people started talking about how this was not a one time event and he had actually screwed over several members, over a year or so.
I wouldn't have known that if it were not talked about here in an open forum.

Scott,
Even though I understand what you are saying and agree with the better part of it, I also feel it is not your place to admonish the OP for doing something if you are not part of the situation, like I am.
I want to know who these people are so I will Never have a financial transaction with them here or on fleebay.

Just my 2 cents worth, after taxes.


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## niteliteone (Aug 19, 2013)

I received a second chance offer this morning on the necklace and accepted it. (Thanks for the offer everydayisalesson).
Paid for it within minutes of doing so, like everyone should do when they purchase anything on these auction sites, since their is no financial benefit gained buy waiting to pay for your purchases.


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## everydayisalesson (Aug 28, 2013)

So Jeff Fuller contacted me and stated he has been in the hospital. I told him that I hoped he was feeling better.

Mike


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## macfixer01 (Aug 28, 2013)

everydayisalesson said:


> So Jeff Fuller contacted me and stated he has been in the hospital. I told him that I hoped he was feeling better.
> 
> Mike




Yeah well one never "truly" knows I guess, no matter what our suspicions are. We tend to want to believe people but sometimes I feel like Charlie Brown about to attempt kicking that football (and be duped yet again). Back in the early 2000's when I was selling regularly on Ebay I'd often get one excuse or another for why someone hadn't replied to any emails or paid yet. Being sick or in the hospital was a frequent excuse, just as often they'd blame it on their computer being down. Of course back then I could easily find on Ebay where they'd made bids or paid for items in other auctions during the time I was trying in vain to get a reply from them.


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## knujiv1 (Aug 28, 2013)

Just an a quick note of caution for anybody wanting to wash their Ebay dirty laundry here. Publishing Ebay user names in association with their real-life names (or any other of their private information) would be a violation of Ebay's User Agreement, and could subject the violator to various punishments by Ebay ... possibly even permanent suspension from the site. 

I realize this hasn't exactly happened here, but it has come very, very close. 

Just thought a "Heads Up" was called for.


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## chlaurite (Aug 28, 2013)

knujiv1 said:


> Just an a quick note of caution for anybody wanting to wash their Ebay dirty laundry here. Publishing Ebay user names in association with their real-life names (or any other of their private information) would be a violation of Ebay's User Agreement


You serious?

If eBay won't do their own laundy, _someone_ has to. Way, *way* too many scammers there to let anonymity stand. At this point, I have a 66% "won but the seller flaked" success rate there - And I pay within 5 minutes of the auction ending, yet had three of four _actively refund_ my payment - You can haz "reserve bid", morons???. I could care less if they suspend my account. Anything I actually win, I don't get anyway, so... They can ban me if they want.

Nothing but a wretched hive of scum and villainy in the first place.


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## Geo (Aug 29, 2013)

when i deal with Ebay, its normally something small and inexpensive but i do always find items that have a "buy it now" option. ive only ever bid on two items and didn't win either. if it doesn't have a buy out price, i normally skip over it.


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## gold4mike (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm currently at 4000+ feedback and 99.6% positive on eBay. I list mostly fixed price listings and require immediate payment via PayPal due to the number of non-paying bidders I encountered. 

If you can pick the number you'd like to get for your item and skip the auction process you might find it a desirable way to avoid those who don't seem to want to honor their commitment.

eBay does refund your fees when you file a non-paying bidder claim but it's a hassle I don't have time to bother with.

It has its faults but eBay has become a substantial part of my livelihood. You simply have to find ways to insulate yourself from the riff-raff.


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## pgms4me (Aug 30, 2013)

I am just chiming in here to agree with you mike, i am at th same level as you are. i have only experience about 1 non-paying bidder per 200 items over the last 15 years. its not hard to make ebay work. people selling items at retail stores have more problematic transactions than that. I have met many forum members through the things they sell on ebay. It is true that some peope are not cut out for online business. too difficult when not in person I guess.


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