# Flim-Flam



## goldsilverpro (Jan 26, 2010)

Since this article is posted in many places on the internet, I'm sure many of you have read it. In fact, it may have already been posted on this forum and I just didn't notice it. I just discovered it this morning. We all have heard about the 400 oz gold plated tungsten bars that have turned up in several banks and storage facilities around the world. This article is the best I've seen to explain all this. I think it may possibly all be true. It has a ring of truth about it and it certainly seems to make things fall into place and make sense of all this mess. However, I admit that I can occasionally be gullible when it comes to conspiracies.

I first read it here:
http://www.daily.pk/fake-gold-bars-in-bank-of-england-and-fort-knox-14477/

I didn't read this one thoroughly, but I think it's the same. I added it because of the photos, the better organization, and because it seems that this is where the article originated:
http://www.viewzone.com/fakegold.html

The author is Dan Eden. I don't know of him but I'll try to research his credentials


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## Irons (Jan 26, 2010)

One comment from the article:

"Sir, There is a non-destructive means to test bullion for inclusions. As a Machine Shop Inspector for the Boeing Company I used an eddy current instrument to check plating thickness of finished machined parts. Its transducer puts out a signal which bounces off the substrate, telling the Inspector how much distance from the probe on the surface to the substrate (plating thickness). This instrument was calibrated in thousandths of an inch, but there are machines in industry which can read in a scale that would be useful for thicker (1/8 inch) platings as mentioned in the article.

An Inspector would need 5 to 10 minutes per bar to inspect and document. A certain minimum number of readings covering all surfaces would be made. As this is not new technology, I imagine that Fort Knox has already done so, and not told us. ...or they already know if indeed they are the perpetrators.

Paul Mill "


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## AKDan (Jan 26, 2010)

One thing that makes it so plausable is that once the chain of custody is established on these bars they are not checked with every transaction. If moved, they are simply moved from secure location to secure location, paperwork and chain of custody in tact. There is no reason to assay with every move, unless the chain of custody has somehow been broken.

Once the bars have been manufactured and they enter the trading system I am pretty certain that is where they remain. Very unlikely that they will ever be discovered, unless the chain of custody is broken, or there is some reason to suspect them. All in all, it seems that it is a risk that someone though worth the effort.


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## nickvc (Jan 26, 2010)

Dirty dealings in high places, corrupt politicians ,the US and UK involved :shock: Now come on GSP you know that cant be true :roll:


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## jimdoc (Mar 2, 2010)

More on the tungsten story;
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/german-prosieben-tv-channel-finds-500-gram-tungsten-bar-wcheraeus-gold-foundary-bank-origin

and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0-hGHJSgNA&feature=related


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## Irons (Mar 2, 2010)

Here's an interesting page:

http://tungsten-alloy.com/

or if you need ready-made bricks:

http://www.tungsten-alloy.com/en/alloy13.htm


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## qst42know (Mar 2, 2010)

You think this one has been adulterated?

http://www.tungsten-alloy.com/paperweight.htm


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## Irons (Mar 2, 2010)

qst42know said:


> You think this one has been adulterated?
> 
> http://www.tungsten-alloy.com/paperweight.htm



here's an even better one:

http://www.tungsten-alloy.com/en/alloy11.htm


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## qst42know (Mar 2, 2010)

What do you think the odds are they would make Maple Leaf coins if you ask nice?

The Wild Wild West has nothing on the Rabid Far East. :evil:

How about that even criminals are losing jobs to the Chinese. :twisted:


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## Palladium (Mar 3, 2010)

qst42know said:


> How about that even criminals are losing jobs to the Chinese. :twisted:



I can't stop laughing.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 3, 2010)

:lol: :lol: :lol: in unemployement office when filling forms. 
Occupation: Criminal
Reason for leaving your last employement: Job outsorced to Huan-dong gang


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## Lou (Mar 3, 2010)

This scam would be ridiculously difficult to perpetrate and would require governmental resources---to cast a SOLID, not powder metallurgy, tungsten bar would require a *monstrous* furnace! Probably costing many tens of millions of dollars. The gold could then be cast around the tungsten bar to whatever thickness is needed, as gold brazes beautifully to tungsten!

The density is only equivalent if they are both cast, otherwise it's topped at 90-92% of theoretical, easily discernible with density tests (maybe not via the hand).

X-ray fluorescence would not work for detecting fakes, and I doubt that other conductivity based test would work too well.

Best way is to drill--and if your bit melts half way through, there be tungsten!


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## qst42know (Mar 4, 2010)

Advances in powder metallurgy are making this more accessible. 

Using *Hot Isostatic Pressing* porosity can be reduced to 1% or less. Densities superior to casting can be achieved. The items are heated to the plastic deformation temperature and subjected to extreme pressure essentially collapsing the pores.

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=924

A company such as Irons linked likely owns or has access to the high pressure furnaces needed and obviously doesn't care what the end use of their product is.

These high pressure furnaces are fixed in size and cost the same to run full or not. Several of the companies doing this type work will fit small lots in with their normal runs with similar parameters.

My brother has some experience with this type of work and first described this process to me. Fascinating process but has nothing to do with PMs, sorry.


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## markqf1 (Mar 5, 2010)

Or does it?
Maybe what most people think they have, is not what they actually have.

Mark


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