# Moving on!



## Palladium (Aug 14, 2021)

It's been a pleasure knowing everyone of you through the years. We have shared some triumphs and we have shared some times of sorrow. We have learned a lot from each other and for that i am a thankful man. I feel like it's time for me to move on now. I've been pretty well put in my place and advised of that. No hard feelings, only sorrow for not realizing my place earlier. Those who know how to contact me can stay in touch off board. I will not be communicating or posting here any longer. When my sacrifices and accomplishments mean so little that instead of meaningful discussions the iron fist of Authoritarianism is slammed down and i'm put in my place instead of civil discussion to spur discourse then it's time for me to go.

I wish each and everyone of you the best moving forward. Stay safe and may your gold be .9999.

Palladium signing off!


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## jimdoc (Aug 14, 2021)

I have to agree. This forum isn't anything without it's members, especially the long time members, I have seen many go that should not have. I lost interest in refining, not precious metals, just the refining part. But consider this place like family. We are at a point where we should be worried about the internet getting shut down by the powers that be, or the power grid going down for what ever reason. Those who have never lived in the ghetto will be very surprised how people react when things get bad. And they are absolutely not ready for it. 

Banning a long time member over trying to get everyone to see the light isn't cool. This place is like a family and looking out for each other should over ride some stupid rules about religion and politics talk. Those in charge of the politics at this time in US are about as incompetent and evil as can be. And the average "citizen" is brain dead to reality. There comes a time when you should not avoid discussing things when it comes to all members safety. When the members are all gone it doesn't matter anymore. 

I have been OK with getting banned here for a long time. I hope you guys the best, but you need to realize that things are going to get bad.


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## g_axelsson (Aug 15, 2021)

No one has been banned the last couple of months except for a couple of spammers. I checked the logs.



jimdoc said:


> Those in charge of the politics at this time in US are about as incompetent and evil as can be. And the average "citizen" is brain dead to reality.



The problem with discussing politics on a forum like this is that the above statement could have been said at any time the last 20 years. The polarization in US politics is ridiculous right now, to the point where someone said in an interview "You have your facts and we have alternative facts." ... or something like that. It got to a point where a medical decision perfectly correlates to the political background while a virus sweeps the globe.

So yes, banning political and religious discussions is an obvious decision. It has destroyed several forums over time. If you still want to warn and save your friends, do it in a PM, we don't care what you are writing privately.

You could even start a facebook group or another forum and put a link in your signature. Just don't start discussions here that rips GRF to pieces.

I didn't have time to this, I'm late for a job now but I felt I had to say something before this gets out of hands and we loose more long time members.

Göran


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## g_axelsson (Aug 15, 2021)

Palladium, I would hate to see you go. It would be a great loss to the forum. You have been here almost as long as I have.  

We have never met, we might not have the same view of the world or even share the same news sources. But I have always considered you as a refiner friend and I deeply respect your knowledge in that area. You always helps people without any hesitation. My view of you are a kind and helpful man.

If you decide to stay or return at a later date, you will be welcome. Sometimes we need a break from the forum. I've been on a couple of hiatuses over time, some even over a year, but it's always nice to return here.
Too many of the old-timers are gone now, some by choice like Harold, some have died like FreeKemist and GSP and some just faded away like Irons, Catfish... and many many more. Even Noxx rarely visits nowadays, but we all made GRF to what it is today. It's a huge collection of knowledge spread over more than a quarter of a million posts.

Whatever your decision is, you made a big contribution to GRF and that is your legacy on the board. Thank you for everything you have done so far and I wish you well wherever you go from here. Please come back some day and just say hi. :wink: 

Göran


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## Lino1406 (Aug 15, 2021)

Sorry for your leaving Palladium. If I understand well you speak about ungratefulness. I assume teachers have more times that feeling, than the opposite. But can they stop being teachers?


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

Lino1406 said:


> Sorry for your leaving Palladium. If I understand well you speak about ungratefulness. I assume teachers have more times that feeling, than the opposite. But can they stop being teachers?



Aristotle conceives of ethical theory as a field distinct from the theoretical sciences. Its methodology must match its subject matter—good action—and must respect the fact that in this field many generalizations hold only for the most part. We study ethics in order to improve our lives, and therefore its principal concern is the nature of human well-being. Aristotle follows Socrates and Plato in taking the virtues to be central to a well-lived life. Like Plato, he regards the ethical virtues (justice, courage, temperance and so on) as complex rational, emotional and social skills. But he rejects Plato's idea that to be completely virtuous one must acquire, through a training in the sciences, mathematics, and philosophy, an understanding of what goodness is. What we need, in order to live well, is a proper appreciation of the way in which such goods as friendship, pleasure, virtue, honor and wealth fit together as a whole. In order to apply that general understanding to particular cases, we must acquire, through proper upbringing and habits, the ability to see, on each occasion, which course of action is best supported by reasons. Therefore, practical wisdom, as he conceives it, cannot be acquired solely by learning general rules. We must also acquire, through practice, those deliberative, emotional, and social skills that enable us to put our general understanding of well-being into practice in ways that are suitable to each occasion.
Such formalities seem to have been forgotten.
We are literally the living descendents of the Alchemist, who helped humanity define logic and scientific debate.
But have let our forum be taken over by people of a Narcissistic personality.
John was the most obvious of Malignant Narcissist who cost us such wealth as Harold.
Then the Covert Narcissist took over.
I would love to thank Harold, I started out on this page as a complete novice experimenting with furnace.
Now I operate the largest independent operation in south-west England.
All thanks to Harold's model.
But I can not even thank him as he was driven off by lesser people.


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 15, 2021)

I do regret any skilled person leaving the forum.

But this, Justinchase, should be beneath any of us.
Talking bad about someone not able to defend themselves, what kind of ethics is that?
I do know you and Jon had some kind of skirmish, but that has nothing on this forum when one of the parts are outside.

I am tempted to say shame on you, especially when starting the lecture with Socrates, Aristotle, Plato and ethics


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

Yggdrasil said:


> I do regret any skilled person leaving the forum.
> 
> But this, Justinchase, should be beneath any of us.
> Talking bad about someone not able to defend themselves, what kind of ethics is that?
> ...



John invited me into partnership.
So as due diligence I did undertake a full investigation.
Not anything I would share on a public forum.#but if you were ever thinking of getting into bed with the man.
Yes, I will save you a fortune!


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## shintoc (Aug 15, 2021)

New here, but to see educated professionals f any area leaving is truly sad, as it leaves many to have to work through it without the taught guidance and wisdom 


PM & PGM
Now.. where’s the coffee


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

shintoc said:


> New here, but to see educated professionals f any area leaving is truly sad, as it leaves many to have to work through it without the taught guidance and wisdom
> 
> 
> PM & PGM
> Now.. where’s the coffee



Don't worry, the best people had to work it all out for them self.
With a little help from Ms Hoke.
If you consistently need help with the puzzle, maybe you should not try to charge people.
We get paid because we can solve such problems. 
It is a skill hard learned and paid for in gold.


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

Yggdrasil said:


> I do regret any skilled person leaving the forum.
> 
> But this, Justinchase, should be beneath any of us.
> Talking bad about someone not able to defend themselves, what kind of ethics is that?
> ...



I am kind of thinking that is you John!
Just could not resist defending yourself.
LOL
and yes, malignant narcissists do not get compassion or understanding any more.
We simply hunt them down and isolate them, so they can not harm others any more.


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 15, 2021)

Sorry mate.
I have never lived in UK, although I have done some work in Peterhead and Aberdeen.

Justin is it?
You have just failed your own ethics class.
There is NO honour to Harold, GSP and the others, bad mouthing some one behind their back.

I would not react like this, if you did not start your "lesson" by quoting these great thinkers. 
For then stouping this low....

If you have read my posts, you would not mistake me 
for Jon.
I think I'm honored to be compared to him by the way.

Enough of this dirty laundry, lets get back to refining.
And once more, shame on you...


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

Yggdrasil said:


> Sorry mate.
> I have never lived in UK, although I have done some work in Peterhead and Aberdeen.
> 
> Justin is it?
> ...



Why would you think I have had the time to read you post.
You are the one trying to defend an individual who has been proved defective in court five times.
Refining and honesty are intimately entwined.
Gold attracts the very worse in humanity.
But our profession demands a higher moral fortitude.
It does not take a talented observer to see what has been going on.
Might I suggest Prof. Sam Vaknin as a good starting point for further study.
It is time people took the blinkers off and stop letting such abusive individuals benefit from such abusive treatment of others.


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 15, 2021)

I have just realized I have broken one of my own rules,
for that I will apologize to the forum.

The rule is:
One should prize others in public and correct them in privacy.

I really do not know your dealings with Jon and it is not 
my buisiness.
I still mean it is not correct to slander people that can not defend themselves.

If you have anything else feel free to PM me


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

Yggdrasil said:


> I have just realized I have broken one of my own rules,
> for that I will apologize to the forum.
> 
> The rule is:
> ...


No, I am very careful to never give anyone reason for slander.
It can be quite expensive.
So I always temper what I say with what I can willingly prove in court.
And yes, that is the objective with narcissistic individuals, put them in a position where they can not harm others.
And much like any venomous snake, we are morally obliged to permit their continued existence.
So the least we can do is point them out so other people do not stand on them.I mean if Spaceship was still on the board.
He would have gaslighted every one into paying for cool aid, mostly made of cyanide.
I and several of my associates are still analysing his actions and subsequent manipulations.
Quite fascinating how someone like him can infiltrate and divide.


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 15, 2021)

justinhcase said:


> No, I am very careful to never give anyone reason for slander.
> It can be quite expensive.
> So I always temper what I say with what I can willingly prove in court.
> And yes, that is the objective with narcissistic individuals, put them in a position where they can not harm others.
> ...



Justin, that's enough! Actually, it's too much.

Jon is not here to defend himself, so your continued attacks and innuendo against him are violating forum rules. If you choose to continue the attacks, you won't be here any more either.

Dave


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

FrugalRefiner said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > No, I am very careful to never give anyone reason for slander.
> ...



Sorry, I did not mean to cause offence.
But I do think John is still on the board, just under another name.
I did not see anyone defend my good name while he was spreading untruth and innuendo about me.


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## cosmetal (Aug 15, 2021)

Palladium said:


> It's been a pleasure knowing everyone of you through the years. We have shared some triumphs and we have shared some times of sorrow. We have learned a lot from each other and for that i am a thankful man. I feel like it's time for me to move on now. I've been pretty well put in my place and advised of that. No hard feelings, only sorrow for not realizing my place earlier. Those who know how to contact me can stay in touch off board. I will not be communicating or posting here any longer. When my sacrifices and accomplishments mean so little that instead of meaningful discussions the iron fist of Authoritarianism is slammed down and i'm put in my place instead of civil discussion to spur discourse then it's time for me to go.
> 
> I wish each and everyone of you the best moving forward. Stay safe and may your gold be .9999.
> 
> Palladium signing off!



Peace and health, Palladium. We all need these more than ever. Thank you for sharing your refining knowledge.

James


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

I do not get that most of my criticism is from Frugal Refiner.
Now, I do not know what personal relationship I have stood on.
But two threats of banning in as may days is significant.
I come from the south of Ireland, A land I will not describe further.
But just let us say, as a survivor, I am considered as a specialist in conflict resolution.
I am preprogramed to cause certain individuals what is called "Narcissistic injury".
This is a very effective way to triage most normal individuals from their more predatory percentage.
It is what I have been paid for since I was sixteen, retired by twenty-two and fifty still hard-wired.
But boy does the Irish defence force basic training in Phycological profiling relating to potently destructive individuals still pay off.


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## kurtak (Aug 15, 2021)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Justin, that's enough! Actually, it's too much.
> 
> Jon is not here to defend himself, so your continued attacks and innuendo against him are violating forum rules. If you choose to continue the attacks, you won't be here any more either.
> 
> Dave



Thank You Dave :!: :!: :!: 

justincase - you can thank Dave because I was "very much" considering digging up OLD private messages between you & I concerning the matter between you & Jon --- let me put it this way Justin - If I was to post those PMs & as well bring up some of the open discussions from back then Jon would be the one to come out looking like a saint - not you (& Jon is certainly no saint) you have your own "shady past" - on this forum Justin 

So as I said - you can thank Dave - that I don't bring your own words to bear here as wittiness of your own colors



> Narcissist



It might just be well worth your while to take a closer look at the image in your own mirror 

Kurt


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

kurtak said:


> FrugalRefiner said:
> 
> 
> > Justin, that's enough! Actually, it's too much.
> ...



Look up the definition of "Flying Monkey"
The fact you are still trying to defend such a person proves what a powerful and detrimental influence such people are.
I put the proper research point in and mention the professor who is spearheading this education.
I know you will never believe me.
But maybe you will be leave a professor of high standing both sides of the iron border.


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## kurtak (Aug 15, 2021)

justinhcase said:


> I do not get that most of my criticism is from Frugal Refiner.
> Now, I do not know what personal relationship I have stood on.
> But two threats of banning in as may days is significant.



You should pay close attention & heed that advice :!: :!: :!: 

Kurt


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## niks neims (Aug 15, 2021)

Am I the only one who kind of thinks justin could be Jon in hiding, he was a relentless a-hole, too, pbuh...

That being said I'm sad and it's bad that Jon left. And Palladium shouldn't leave either.

No politics rule is shite, I would've loved to jump in on that discussion... The view "discussions on divisive subjects ruins forums" is a fallacy, it keeps it alive...

Frugal (Dave) is a cool moderator, but c'mon man - loosen up a little, let guys have their fun, we are all big boys here, ain't nothing getting hurt but feelings


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

The only person I had time for except Harold was 4metals.
Have not seen him for quite some time.
I liked the people with more knowledge than ego.
Still, I did not give in to them when I was ten, and they were beating on my back because I would not admit to their being a god.
I did not give in to them then, and aged fifty, I will never give in to them now.


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## niks neims (Aug 15, 2021)

justinhcase said:


> The only person I had time for except Harold was 4metals.
> Have not seen him for quite some time.
> I liked the people with more knowledge than ego.
> Still, I did not give in to them when I was ten, and they were beating on my back because I would not admit to their being a god.
> I did not give in to them then, and aged fifty, I will never give in to them now.



You start to worry me, you are not foaming at the mouth, are you?


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

niks neims said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > The only person I had time for except Harold was 4metals.
> ...



No .
Sunday lunch and a box of wine.


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## niks neims (Aug 15, 2021)

justinhcase said:


> niks neims said:
> 
> 
> > justinhcase said:
> ...


Fair enough, I feel you.
Go ahead, have your fun.
Good manners requires you ask Palladium to stay, though. He is a decorated member...


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## justinhcase (Aug 15, 2021)

niks neims said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > niks neims said:
> ...


There are far too few gentlemen left in this world.
Most of us have retired from public interaction because we find it just far to caustic.
Thanks to the goddess, we have a small enclave of safety in Devon.
Palladium is always welcome on the Ms C,M Hoke Facebook page.


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## Martijn (Aug 16, 2021)

I have to say i want palladium to stay. Him leaving would be a great loss for our community. 
I think he's right to say there is something very wrong with the way things are going in the world, not just in america. 
He is concerned with the wellbeing of his friends and wants to warn us of the dangers ahead he sees coming. 
Nothing wrong with that. Admirable in fact. 

So much polarisation and distraction that we loose sight of the big picture. Who can possibly grasp the complete complexity of our world today? 
So many conspiracies and sites, and they're all discarded as wack jobs. Walk with the masses and be silent. So hat's off to you for daring to stick your head out. 
I guess time will tell if they were right. Some will be prepared some will not. But if we're thown back into dark ages, things will get rough. Humans are animals. 
People are pampered for too long to be self reliant. 
Some don't even build in a kitchen in their new home. 'I have worthless zero's and one's on my bankaccount. Until power's out...

Palladium, if you should come to read this, stay. Don't let the question of the presence of a creator ruin a beautiful thing. Yes, forum rules are there for a reason. Some may even take offence in a statement that denying a creator is rediculous. You can't save them all. 
I admire and respect your strong belief and i believe that you are a good man. Thanks for the warning, i will keep a close eye on things and do what i can to get through the first rough times if when the manure hits the fan. 
Basic skills and crafts with natural materials are the first things you have to know. 

Again. Stay. Ride it out until the end here with us! 

Martijn.
Edited for spelling.


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## kurtak (Aug 17, 2021)

I *AGREE* :!: :!: :!: 

Thanks for post Martijn :!: :!: :!: 

I don't have time to post more right now  

Kurt



Martijn said:


> I have to say i want palladium to stay. Him leaving would be a great loss for our community.
> I think he's right to say there is something very wrong with the way things are going in the world, not just in america.
> He is concerned with the wellbeing of his friends and wants to warn us of the dangers ahead he sees coming.
> Nothing wrong with that. Admirable in fact.
> ...


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## Lino1406 (Aug 19, 2021)

Yes! I would not let go Palladium


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## MicheleM (Aug 21, 2021)

These are hard times for everyone, a break could be healthy. I hope to read you again Palladium, thank you for your precious contributions , good luck and stay healthy

M.M.


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