# Chemical Common Substitute Source Matrix



## Chumbawamba (Oct 22, 2009)

Since I spent so much time and effort (and money) over the last week compiling a list of common chemicals that can be used in our fun little hobby here, I thought I'd put it all together into a useful document so that others might benefit from my toil and not have to repeat the effort.

I'll go ahead and post it here in this message, even though the formatting is going to be lost due to the non-translation of hard tabs. I wanted to also attach the original Microsoft WordPad document (in RTF or Rich-Text Format) that I typed this into for those wishing to have a formatted copy for printing or whatever, but the forum software does not allow RTF files to be attached (why?)

I tried to put it in (what I think is) a sensible format that gives as much information as possible about each product and what chemical composition one might expect to find in them. I sorted by chemical name in alphabetical order.

Please comment, critique, and above all, please suggest additions based on ACTUAL, CONFIRMED products that you've found in the marketplace, and please try to include as much information as possible in the same manner that I have here. I'll collect all the suggestions and continue to add to the document as time permits.

I would eventually like to put this all into a database and have it hosted somewhere on the web so that people in other hobbies (rocketry, etc.) might also benefit. In fact, I was set to proceed to develop a database and a web application to automatically format the data and allow searching but then I realized I would never get it done if I went that route, so I went ahead and just plowed it into a text document. This should suffice for now. It will certainly make finding this stuff a lot easier for others.

Lastly, this is certainly a US-centric resource. However, the non-USA participants here might still find this information useful.


Chemical Common Substitute Source Matrix (C2S2M)

This document is intended to serve as a resource for locating chemicals and compounds used in the processing of precious metals from local consumer sources. Additions and corrections are welcome!

Notes:

1. The heading (appearing in bold) for each chemical lists the chemical name and (when applicable) a common name (in parenthesis) for ease of reference. Common names (and "Other Names", when applicable) are also given for cross-referencing.
2. Symbols appearing after the chemical composition indicate the physical state of the product, as follows: (a) = aqueous, (s) = solid
3. The price listed is likely to be regionally (and historically) relevant and should be used as a general indicator only. Prices WILL vary regionally and over time as inflation eats away at the value of the Federal Reserve Note.
4. Unit quantities are generally stated as indicated on the product packaging. Unit sizes may vary by product or manufacturer. 
5. Products are listed in the order of the highest concentration of the chemical composition down to the lowest.
6. When available, the MSDS sheet for a particular product is included after its listing (prefixed by "MSDS").



HYDROCHLORIC ACID (MURIATIC ACID)

Scientific Name: Hydrochloric Acid
Chemical Composition: HCl
Common Name: Muriatic Acid
Other Names: Chlorane, Spirit of Salt

Product Composition Retail Source	Department	Price/Unit

Crown Muriatic Acid 31.45% HCl(a) Lowe's Paint $6.98/gal
Muriatic Acid 31.45% HCl(a) Pool supply Varies
Kem-Tek Muriatic Acid 14.5% HCl(a) Lowe's Pool/Garden	$10.98/2 gal


HYDROGEN PEROXIDE

Scientific Name: Hydrogen Peroxide
Chemical Composition: H2O2
Common Name: Hydrogen Peroxide, Peroxide
Other Names: Dioxidane

Product Composition Retail Source	Department	Price/Unit

Klean Strip Wood Bleach Solution B	~30% H2O2(a) ACE Hardware	Paint $24.99/1 gal
- MSDS: http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/WB19B.pdf
Jasco Wood Bleach Solution #2 ~30% H2O2(a) ACE Hardware	Paint $24.99/1 gal
Baquacil 27% H2O2(a) Pool Supply $17.99/1 gal
Hydrogen Peroxide 3% H2O2(a) Grocery/Drug


POTASSIUM NITRATE (SALT PETER)

Scientific Name: Potassium Nitrate
Chemical Composition: KNO3
Common Name: Salt Peter
Other Names: Nitrate of Potash, Vesta Powder, Saltpetre

Product Composition Retail Source	Department	Price/Unit

Spectracide Stump Remover 100% KNO3(s) Lowe's Garden $6.47/1 lbs
- MSDS: http://www.spectracide.com/NR/rdonlyres/CD2F3A98-1D58-4498-8C59-24AC39F29A9B/0/SpectracideStumpRemoverMSDSNOV01.pdf
Green Light Stump Remover 98% KNO3(s) OSH Garden 


SODIUM BORATE (BORAX)

Scientific Name: Sodium Borate
Chemical Composition: Na2B4O7-10H2O
Common Name: Borax
Other Names: Sodium Tetraborate, Disodium Tetraborate

Product Composition Retail Source	Department	Price/Unit

Twenty Mule Team Borax 100% Na2B4O7 Walmart	Laundry $2.98/5lbs
- MSDS: http://www2.prosarcorp.com/msds_frame.asp?site_id=196&msds_id=685&lang=en


SODIUM HYDROXIDE (LYE)

Scientific Name: Sodium Hydroxide
Chemical Composition: NaOH
Common Name: Caustic Soda, Lye

Product Composition Retail Source	Department	Price/Unit

Roebic Crystal Drain Opener 100% NaOH(s) Lowe's Plumbing	$12.99/2lbs
- MSDS: http://www.roebic.com/pdf/hdcryMSDS.pdf


SODIUM HYPOCHLORITE (BLEACH)

Scientific Name: Sodium Hypochlorite
Chemical Composition: NaClO
Common Name: Bleach
Other Names: Sodium Chlorate(I)

Product Composition Retail Source	Department	Price/Unit

Chlorinate Liquid 10% NaClO OSH Pool/Garden	$6.99/2 gal
Clorox Regular Bleach 5-10% NaClO
- MSDS: http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/products/msds/bleach/cloroxregularbleach0809_.pdf
Clorox Outdoor Bleach Cleaner 5-10% NaClO
- MSDS: http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/products/msds/bleach/cloroxoutdoorbleachcleaner8-09.pdf
Thompson's WaterSeal Deck Wash	3% NaClO OSH Flooring $6.99/1 gal
Clorox Scented Bleach 1-5% NaClO
- MSDS: http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/products/msds/bleach/cloroxscentedbleachesmsds8-09.pdf


SODIUM METABISULFITE (SMB)

Scientific Name: Sodium Metabisulfite
Chemical Composition: Na2S2O5
Common Name: SMB
Other Names: Sodium Pyrosulfite, Sodium Disulfite

Product Composition Retail Source	Department	Price/Unit

Stump Out 98% Na2S2O5(s)	Garden/Nursery	Garden $7.99/1 lbs
- MSDS: http://www.bonideproducts.com/lbonide/msds/msds271.pdf


SULPHUR (S)

Scientific Name: Sulphur
Chemical Composition: S
Common Name: Sulphur, Sulfur

Product Composition Retail Source	Department	Price/Unit

Bonide Sulfur Plant Fungicide 90% S(s) OSH Garden $7/1 lbs
- MSDS: http://www.bonideproducts.com/lbonide/msds/msds141.pdf


SULPHURIC ACID

Scientific Name: Sulphuric Acid
Chemical Composition: H2SO4
Common Name: Sulphuric Acid, Sulfuric Acid
Other Names: Oil of Vitriol

Product Composition Retail Source	Department	Price/Unit

El Diablo Drain Cleaner 94.19% H2SO4(a) OSH Plumbing	$29.79/1 gal
Floweasy Drain Opener 94.19% H2SO4(a) ACE Hardware	Plumbing	$32.99/1 gal
- MSDS: http://www.floweasy.com/download.php?act=download&docId=123
Liquid Lightning Drain Opener (Blue)	94.19% H2SO4(a) OSH Plumbing	$9.99/32 oz
- MSDS: http://www.liquidlightning.net/LiquidLighting_MSDS.pdf
Liquid Lightning Drain Opener (Red)	44.25% H2SO4(a) Walmart
- MSDS: http://www.liquidlightning.net/Wal-Mart%20Red%20Label%20%28Black%20Bottle%29%20MSDS%20Sheets%2012%2004%2007.pdf
Glentronics (Qual) Battery Acid 36% H2SO4(a) Napa Auto Parts $12.99/1.5gal

* Special note on battery acids: Battery acids are normally classified by their Specific Gravity (S.G.) An S.G. of 1.28 equates to approximately 38% H2SO4 by volume, whereas an S.G. of 1.265 equates to approximately 36%.


TIN (Sn)

Scientific Name: Tin
Chemical Composition: Sn
Common Name: Tin
Other Names: Stannum

Product Composition Retail Source	Department	Price/Unit

Multicore Lead Free Solder 96% Sn(s) Radio Shack	Electronics	$3.99/0.5 oz
- MSDS: http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/uc/rsk/Support/MSDS/6400025_MSDS.pdf
Oatey 95/5 Lead Free Plumbing Solder	95% Sn(s) OSH Plumbing	$10.79/8 oz
- MSDS: http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/instance_assets/assets/MSDS_Sheet/SOL160E5_OATEY_%2095_5_%20LEAD_FREE_SOLDER.pdf
Oatey Safe Flo Lead Free Solder 95% Sn(s) OSH Plumbing	$13.69/8 oz
- MSDS: http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/instance_assets/assets/MSDS_Sheet/SOL210E5_OATEY_%20SILVER_%20LEAD_FREE_PLUMBING_SOLDER.pdf


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## Chumbawamba (Oct 22, 2009)

I'll add that one thing I noticed when walking the aisles of the various stores I visited is that if you see a jug or container sealed in an external plastic bag, that usually means it's Good Stuff(TM) that folks like us would want to investigate  The bag is, I assume, there as an additional barrier in case the product packaging gets damaged in some way.

For example, drain cleaner in an external plastic bag is usually a good indication of a high concentration sulphuric acid.


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## lazersteve (Oct 22, 2009)

Great list! Here's a few additional items:

Sodium Nitrate- Nitrate of Soda, solid
Sourced online Amazon.Com : Bonide Nitrate of Soda 4 pounds
MSDS :Nitrate of Soda MSDS

Sodium Bisulfate- ph Decreaser, Dry Acid, Solid Sulfuric Acid Substitute
Sourced online at any Pool Chemical Supply House: Sodium Bisulfate
MSDS: NaHSO4 MSDS

Dilute Sulfuric Acid 35%- Battery Acid liquid 5 gal bag in a box. Boil down to make Concentrated Sulfuric Acid
Sourced at local auto parts store: NAPA or Oreilly's OReilly's Battery Acid
MSDS: Battery Acid MSDS

I'll post some more later.

Steve


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## seemore (Nov 2, 2009)

Chumbawamba said:


> Since I spent so much time and effort (and money) over the last week compiling a list of common chemicals that can be used in our fun little hobby here, I thought I'd put it all together into a useful document so that others might benefit from my toil and not have to repeat the effort.
> 
> I'll go ahead and post it here in this message, even though the formatting is going to be lost due to the non-translation of hard tabs. I wanted to also attach the original Microsoft WordPad document (in RTF or Rich-Text Format) that I typed this into for those wishing to have a formatted copy for printing or whatever, but the forum software does not allow RTF files to be attached (why?)
> 
> ...


glyerince


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## qst42know (Nov 2, 2009)

Oxalic acid

Bondex wood bleach SKU 11221 

https://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(y51gk4vac30ghy55lzs1ow45)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=11221

MSDS: http://www2.itap.purdue.edu/msds/docs/10504.pdf


The link is a bit uncooperative. It is listed under deck cleaners or search using the SKU number.

It is also available elsewhere.

http://www.painterstoolbox.com/catalog.cfm?dest=itempg&itemid=1250&secid=16&linkon=subsection&linkid=20


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## butcher (Nov 4, 2009)

here's a few for the project:
soda ash-Na2Co3 (sodium carbonate),(washing soda)--grocery store-pool supply

sodium sulfite (NaSO3)
sodium bisufite NaHSO3---pool supply house

urea (NH2)2CO -fertilizer 46-0-0

HNO3 nitric acid (aqua fortis) --mining and industrial supply

Ammonium hydroxide NH4OH (Harts Horn) --grocery

Sodium Chloride NaCl (table salt)--grocery

Sodium nitrate NaNo3 (saltpeter) (soda ntter)--fertilizer

Ferrous Sulfate FeSO4 (copperas)(iron sulfate)--make transformer iron/ dilute sulfuric acid--garden soil ammendment

sulfur dioxide SO2 gas--welding gas supply house

ammonium hydroxide NH4OH --can make houshold ammonia and HCL 

sodium chlorate NaClO3-- weed killer-- can make electrolisis salt

ammonium chloride NH4Cl -- hardware tinning cleaning solder iron

dimethylglyoxime

Iodine (I) --horse hoof medicine for thrush--farm store

phosphoric acid H3PO4--delime,rust treatment

corn syrup dextrose (karo light corn syrup) --grocery

zink Zn -- roofing supply, conduit fittings, or pure zink

ammonium nitrate NH4No3 --fertilizer

stannous chloride SnCl2 can make tin/HCl

carbon C -carbon sources homade softwood charcoal, flour

tin shot Sn --(95% tin Solder)--hardware


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## chemist (Nov 16, 2009)

This is great information!
I was wondering where everybody gets all this stuff.


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## Nopyrite (Nov 28, 2009)

First, let me say a great big THANK YOU for this forum. So much good info here. Today I was in an ACE hardware store in Stuart, Fl. Remembering someone's post here that said to "look for bottles in plastic bags, this is the good stuff." I stated checking the shelves and found not one, but two items that I do not see on your list. One is labeled LIQUID FIRE drain cleaner priced at $20.99 per gallon. I checked it closely, but could not find a description of the contents. The bottle is bright RED. The second was labeled ROOTO and it did say "Concentrated Sulfuric Acid." The price was $13 for a half gallon and the bottle was WHITE. Keep up the good work.
Phil


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## butcher (Nov 28, 2009)

sulfuric acid , liquid fire concentrated.
I get MSDS it will usually give alot of info, stores should be able to get you copies but most of the time the kid working there doesn't know what they are, although by law if the store handles this here by law they are supposed too know.
http://hazard.com/msds/f2/cbf/cbfqv.html

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/liquid-fire-drain-opener-p-27045.html

http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/22350.htm


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 28, 2009)

Nopyrite said:


> First, let me say a great big THANK YOU for this forum. So much good info here. Today I was in an ACE hardware store in Stuart, Fl. Remembering someone's post here that said to "look for bottles in plastic bags, this is the good stuff." I stated checking the shelves and found not one, but two items that I do not see on your list. One is labeled LIQUID FIRE drain cleaner priced at $20.99 per gallon. I checked it closely, but could not find a description of the contents. The bottle is bright RED. The second was labeled ROOTO and it did say "Concentrated Sulfuric Acid." The price was $13 for a half gallon and the bottle was WHITE. Keep up the good work.
> Phil



"Liquid Fire" will do a desent job on items but it is not as good a "Clobber" that has been discussed other places on the forum. And I'm not sure of the purity of liquid fire.


Here is a link to the MSDS sheet on Clobber. I can check for one next week since there is a local supply company that handles it. Unless the manufacturere is known and their website has the info but I don't have that info on hand.

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5618


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## lala14 (Jan 3, 2010)

lazersteve said:


> Great list! Here's a few additional items:
> 
> Sodium Nitrate- Nitrate of Soda, solid
> Sourced online Amazon.Com : Bonide Nitrate of Soda 4 pounds
> ...


steve hi im a new be to start i love your videos an to say the chemicals are house hold item when i was actuly going to a local chemystry store whish was not chip but my question can i use Sodium Bisulfate- ph Decreaser as a suplament insted of SMB thank you lala an sorry with english im mexican lol


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 3, 2010)

lala14 said:


> steve hi im a new be to start i love your videos an to say the chemicals are house hold item when i was actuly going to a local chemystry store whish was not chip but my question can i use Sodium Bisulfate- ph Decreaser as a suplament insted of SMB thank you lala an sorry with english im mexican lol



Bisulfate _*can not *_be used in place of bisulfite for use as SMB!


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## rustbucketguy (Jan 11, 2010)

SMB is available from home brewing suppliers in the form of Campden tablets. It is also available as RIT dye remover and in some products for rust stain remover for concrete, porceline, or clothing: if it is not listed on the ingredient list, DON'T ASSUME. SMB deteriorates in the presence of water, including high humidity to form sodium metabisulfATE. Freshly dissolved SMB should have the distinctive SO2 odor or it will probably not work right. The chemical reactions rely on the SO2 being present. SO2 is the active component in the sterilizing of wine wort, finished beverage, and bottles. Lumpy product is one indication that the powder is no longer usable. Do not allow SMB (strong reducing agent) to come in contact with strong oxidizers such as nitric acid, nitric acid substitutes, or bleach because bad chemical things will happen.


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## aflacglobal (Jan 11, 2010)

Welcome to the forum rustbucket.


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## methods (Sep 1, 2010)

The list worked great - thanks!

Managed to collect most of this stuff I wanted at Lowes 
You can add Lowes as an EasyFlow source btw. They had several flavors of Sulfuric double bagged.
CVS had the Borax, Walfart was out but carried it.

Had some of the items I wanted on hand already - like the 10% bleach and Tin solder

Still need to go find the Hydrogen Peroxide, some Sulphurs, and for some reason I could not find any Hydrofluoric acid at Safeway :mrgreen:

If anyone asks what you are planning to do "with all that stuff".... tell them you are making Toothpaste. :idea: 
I said that last year while buying an equally bizarre batch of chemicals (for my reef tank) and the checkout lady was *not* impressed.

On a serious note - I was a bit disappointed with how hard I had to look to find out if the filters were rated for acid gas. Seemed like all they wanted to do was state which B.S. standards they were in compliance with (of which there were 5,000).... the illusion of safety. CYA first, then maybe we will tell you what it actually protects you from :roll:






-methods


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## Barren Realms 007 (Sep 1, 2010)

There are so many captions you can put for that picture. But I am going to keep my mouth shut... 8) 

You are being safe. 

Now what about the hard hat? 

Do you have your rubber boots (pants legs on outside).

Is your SCBA close by? 8)


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## methods (Sep 2, 2010)

:mrgreen: 
*Clarification: The filter pictured is a 60921 and is not rated for acid gas. That is an Organic Vapor filter.

-methods


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## Photobacterium (Dec 28, 2011)

Chumbawamba said:


> SULPHURIC ACID
> 
> Scientific Name: Sulphuric Acid
> Chemical Composition: H2SO4
> ...



I just looked at the Liquid Lightning at Walmart.

It was very heavy by weight. It felt a lot heavier than water.

Looking up the SG of Sulphuric Acid ... 1.84
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfuric_acid

I am wondering if that is an indicator that this Walmart Liquid Lightning might be the higher purity H2SO4 ?

It said, "Virgin Sulfuric Acid + 12 Buffers" on the label..

*Do the Buffers Bugger the usefulness of this H2SO4 as a feedstock for Nitric, or as an electrolyte for a cell ?*

I don't remember if the label was red or blue.

I'm talking about this stuff - from their website -







SECTION 2-HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS
CHEMICAL/COMMON NAME CAS NO. %WEIGHT OSHA PEL TLV 313
Sulfuric Acid 7664-93-9 44.25 3mg/m (3) 1mg/m3 T
SECTION 2A – NON HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS
CHEMICAL/COMMON NAME CAS NO. %WEIGHT OSHA PEL TLV 313
SECTION 3 – PHYSICAL DATA
PH 1.3 BOILING POINT: 530 degrees F *SPECIFIC GRAVITY (H2O=1): 1.843*
VAPOR PRESSURE (mm Hg): 1.7mm 250 degrees F VAPOR DENSITY (AIR=1): greater than 1.0
SOLUBILITY IN WATER: Complete PERCENT VOLATILE (BY WEIGHT): 7%
EVAPORATION RATE (EITHER=1): Less than 1.0 WEIGHT/GALLON: 16.00 LB
APPEARANCE: Clear to dark brown with no odor

http://liquidlightning.net/webadmin/doc_manager/uploads/125_Liquid%20Lightning%20MSDS%20Red%20Label%20Walmart.pdf

"Liquid Lightning Red Label"


*About Napa H2SO4 - I have the 1 1/2 gallon container (plastic container in a cardboard box) from Napa. I am beginning to suspect that it is diluted. * I followed Steve's recipe for using a piece of iron in dilute sulfuric to convert silver chloride to metallic silver. I am using a piece of "just plain iron" and I am noticing distinctly more dark precipitate when I add more sulfuric, by volume, than in the Video.

I am taking it a spoonful at a time. I believe the Video calls for 200 mL distilled water & approx. 35 mL, I would have to check my notes. Whichever - I mixed in the same proportions, with 100 mL H2O since I had less Silver Chloride. Now, maybe 6 days later, the white Chloride is slowly disappearing and there is more dark color precipitate. I am about to add another "Tablespoon minus" of Napa H2SO4.

I am getting the 'behavior' that is shown in the Video, by adding WAY more Napa H2SO4 than in Steve's recipe. That's why I wonder if the Napa H2SO4 is dilute, compared to for example the Rooto that Steve uses in the Video. Though I think I'm mixing up Video's, Steve uses Rooto in the Cell Video.

"Gravity: 1.265"

I looked at the Napa page ... it has the SG of the more dilute H2SO4. Nothing like reading the instructions !! 8) 

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NBE9002_0006559869


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## methods (Dec 28, 2011)

The Virgin concentrated sulfuric is kind of lame in that it is very dirty and brown - every brand I have tried is the same. 

I bought up some cheap battery acid (~30%) and boiled it down to concentrated - it is clear - and I am a lot happier with that for my lab. If you have an acid that you suspect of being dilute just bring it up to 100C - any water will boil off leaving you concentrated acid. Keep it air tight after that as it is hygroscopic and it will actually pull moisture out of the air and dilute itself.

-methods


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## spooks69 (Jan 7, 2012)

Tin

Tin sinkers at Wlmart


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## bswartzwelder (Jan 8, 2012)

Kem-Tek 2 gallon pack available at The Home Depot for $11.98. It is the 31.45% stuff.

Butcher, is Sodium Nitrate also called saltpeter? I have only ever heard of Potassium Nitrate called saltpeter.


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## Geo (Jan 8, 2012)

saltpetre is potassium nitrate.also salt peter, nitrate of potash and KNO3.


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## Captobvious (Apr 2, 2013)

Chumbawamba said:


> SODIUM HYDROXIDE (LYE)
> 
> Scientific Name: Sodium Hydroxide
> Chemical Composition: NaOH
> ...



Please forgive the necro-bump but according to the MSDS here it sounds like plastic buckets would be safe, but not sure if these would be considered "organic" in nature which therefore would not be safe to store NaOH until needed to neutralize solutions such as decontaminated spent AP or HCL. Been searching for a while now on this one and from what I can tell it's safe in stainless steel for sure, it'll make glass go wonky (therefore not safe) and the different metals it reacts to such as Aluminum, tin, etc. I'd rather not store it in my stainless steel pot until needed as I don't consider that to be a really safe storage solution.

Would be really interested to hear how the vets handle storage of NaOH (Caustic Soda) til needed.


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## butcher (Apr 2, 2013)

sodium hydroxide dry prills you can buy them in steel 55 gallon drums, and for the NaOH (caustic soda) solutions you can buy it in HDPE plastic barrels, I would store it in the container you bought it in, unless for some reason the container was not suitable for storage.


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## Captobvious (Apr 2, 2013)

butcher said:


> sodium hydroxide dry prills you can buy them in steel 55 gallon drums, and for the NaOH (caustic soda) solutions you can buy it in HDPE plastic barrels, I would store it in the container you bought it in, unless for some reason the container was not suitable for storage.



Butcher, perhaps I should rephrase slightly. The other day I was cleaning up aluminum heatsinks (ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQq5XhTH46E one of samuel-a's videos) and while it worked great now I have a stainless steel pot (deep soup pot maybe a few inches deep with solution) of caustic soda that I'm going to use to neutralize solutions with. Would this be safe to store in a plastic bucket (typical plastic painters buckets you get at the hardware store) until I'm ready to use it to neutralize waste solutions? Yes I can neutralize it as is and discard, however I'm a "use the whole buffalo" type and would rather not waste it if possible.


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## Geo (Apr 2, 2013)

warm to hot sodium hydroxide may react to the polymer resin if concentrated enough.the more concentrated and/or warmer, the greater the reaction.


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## Captobvious (Apr 2, 2013)

Geo said:


> warm to hot sodium hydroxide may react to the polymer resin if concentrated enough.the more concentrated and/or warmer, the greater the reaction.



In this case it was never heated, but long story short, not safe in plastic buckets then is what I'm taking away from this, yes?


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## Geo (Apr 2, 2013)

subjective.there is no really right answer to that without knowing concentration and storage conditions. i believe a plastic container would be safer than glass. dont store in plain steel either.its ok to perform task in steel but i wouldnt store it in a steel container. concentrated sodium hydroxide will dissolve glass if heated. sodium hydroxide is a very strong base that acts like an acid to organics.316 stainless steel or better will store caustic soda with no problem.


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## Captobvious (Apr 2, 2013)

Geo said:


> subjective.there is no really right answer to that without knowing concentration and storage conditions. i believe a plastic container would be safer than glass. dont store in plain steel either.its ok to perform task in steel but i wouldnt store it in a steel container. concentrated sodium hydroxide will dissolve glass if heated. sodium hydroxide is a very strong base that acts like an acid to organics.316 stainless steel or better will store caustic soda with no problem.



Ok good to know, I think for now I'll just keep it in the Stainless steel pot in a safe place until I need it. Currently waiting on my ph test strips to arrive so I'm not certain of the concentration, etc.


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## butcher (Apr 2, 2013)

I use a 5 gallon plastic paint bucket, the bucket hold a solution of over saturated sodium hydroxide, I soak memory cards fingers removed (or other circuit boards in) to remove the solder mask (green covering over circuit board traces) this also helps to break down the solder so the surface mount chips can be scraped off easily.
I do not heat, just let it sit till done, my buckets are checked periodically to see how they are holding up, acids and caustics and just plain sunlight can make them brittle over a fairly long period of use, all and all these buckets hold up pretty well, I get good use out of them, the sunlight may do more damage in the long run, but also I am sure the acid or caustic will also help to deteriorate them over time.

This caustic soda is reused, when memory cards have loosened chips and the solder mask is loose or bubbled, I pour caustic soda into another 5 gallon pail, allowed to settle, and decanted back into the main bucket for removing solder from surface mount circuits and solder mask, I may add a little more fresh NaOH to keep the solution over saturated.

The memory is rinsed in water (minimum water), this rinse water is settled before using the alkali rinse water to treat other waste solutions to raise the pH of those acid solutions, the memory rinsed in some slightly acidic waste water solution, rinsed, and then scraped to remove chips, loose solder mask, and powered solder traces, then they are put into another 5 Gallon pail, which I add my used copper chloride solution and copper is dissolved from the boards.


This type barrels will work great also for storage, (or cut in half to use as containers to do processing in), they also have these in smaller sizes, you may be able to find some used barrels or containers locally where a local company buy’s chemicals in these.
http://www.bayteccontainers.com/rcwb55.html?utm_source=googlepepla&utm_medium=adwords&id=37814825897&utm_content=pla&gclid=CJGt35DVrLYCFYx_QgodbnAATw


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## Captobvious (Apr 2, 2013)

Good info Butcher, thanks!

So if I'm to understand this correctly, once you remove the fingers, you'll use the caustic soda to remove the solder and mask at the same time? If so you may have just made my life so much easier. Also do you secure your lids tight or loose on your buckets? I would assume to be loose, but just want to clarify.


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## butcher (Apr 3, 2013)

The memory fingers were trimmed from the memory and processed in the copper II chloride leach (acid peroxide) to remove gold foils, these foils are processed for gold, from 2.25 pounds of close cut memory fingers I got 6 grams of gold, about 2.6 grams of gold per pound of close cut memory fingers.

The remaining memory had traces of gold plate and the memory integrated chips, and the copper, I wanted to remove, the caustic soda solution broke down the solder and loosened solder mask and chips (with NaOH the bucket lid just sits loosely on top to keep rain and critters out), most of the solder mask bubbled or flaked off, the solder basically, the tin dissolves in the caustic soda, the lead most likely just disintegrates, and chips could be pried loose, at this point they were removed and neutralized the chips were removed, the copper also removed with copper II chloride solution, from this I will get the copper back as powder (for reuse), and will also have a fun time getting back that trace of gold from the insoluble powders, the integrated memory chips will be added with the other Integrated chips I store in buckets with filter papers and other traces to be recovered later.


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## Captobvious (Apr 3, 2013)

note to self, stop wasting time scraping off chips from memory sticks with a heat gun lol, thanks for the info Butcher!!! :mrgreen:


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