# black sand concentrate extraction



## Laz777

Hi everyone,
new to this forum, found it through a member's youtube vid.
I do some small scale placer mining in northern California and have a question.
instead of giving my black sands back to the river, is there any cost-effective way of recovering the micron gold it contains?
and a tougher question: how much can I expect to recover, say from a gallon volume of dried magnetite where there is no visible gold present?
I know there are a lot of variables in my last question.
one more though: is using mercury to make an amalgam viable and/or legal?
thanks


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## Richard36

Laz777 said:


> Hi everyone,
> new to this forum, found it through a member's youtube vid.


Hello Laz,

Welcome to the forum.



Laz777 said:


> I do some small scale placer mining in northern California and have a question.
> instead of giving my black sands back to the river, is there any cost-effective way of recovering the micron gold it contains?



Crushing and leaching would be the best bet.
Smelting to lead, and processing that would be your second option.
Both have a cost factor, so my suggestion is to have your "Black Sand" assayed, and sell it based on the assay.
I do have market contacts, so that is an option, if interested.

Keep in mind that black sands often contain Palladium, 
at least that's been my experience with the black sands from my area.



Laz777 said:


> and a tougher question: how much can I expect to recover,
> say from a gallon volume of dried magnetite where there is no visible gold present?



No easy way to tell, short of a Fire Assay.



Laz777 said:


> one more though: is using mercury to make an amalgam viable and/or legal?
> thanks



It is viable, and legal, but unsafe if you don't know what you are doing, so study up first.
In my thread, "GoldBug University", I should have a post on prospecting that includes how to use amalgamation as a method to recover fine, and micron gold from crushed black sand.

I hope that this has been helpful.

Sincerely, Rick. "The Rock Man".


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## dorki22

Richard36 said:


> Keep in mind that black sands often contain Palladium,
> at least that's been my experience with the black sands from my area.



Helo Richard.
Can you add some numbers (ppm)? I have access to some black sand in gravel with some gold (max. 2g/t of gravel, source of gold is houndreds of miles northern), but dont know about palladium or how much black sand/1t of gravel. How much Pd in 1 kg of sand is marketable? Can a profit be made?

Oh, I have a question about assey. How much sand is needed for one normal assey? 

Greetings, Simon


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## Laz777

thank you for your reply Rich.
I suspect that it wouldn't be cost effective, but it just bothers me that I know there's some gold that can't be recovered easily using the usual methods most artisanal miners use (clean up sluice, blue bowl, wave table).
I'm new to prospecting and have heard many things that seem to be "miner's talk" (i.e., BS).
most of my prospecting has been on mainly the south fork of the Yuba and the north fork of the Feather.
placer fines command 70-75% of spot currently in the area, though I've been paid as much as 80. 
one regular buyer of mine dropped from 75 to 70, due to the wild fluctuations in spot in the last year.
he's told me the local native gold assays to about 83% (20K) and coupled with the pricing variables and smelting fees, that he's taken a few hits when the price dumped. sounds reasonable, but he doesn't raise his rate when the price is back on the upswing either.
I have run across what I believe to be a small amount of platinum, which of course would contain a trace of palladium. 
anyhow, I have much to learn, glad I found this site.


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## Richard36

dorki22 said:


> Richard36 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that black sands often contain Palladium,
> at least that's been my experience with the black sands from my area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Helo Richard.
> Can you add some numbers (ppm)? I have access to some black sand in gravel with some gold (max. 2g/t of gravel, source of gold is houndreds of miles northern), but dont know about palladium or how much black sand/1t of gravel. How much Pd in 1 kg of sand is marketable? Can a profit be made?
> 
> Oh, I have a question about assey. How much sand is needed for one normal assey?
> 
> Greetings, Simon
Click to expand...


Hello Simon, 

I don't have any numbers in ppm for the sands from my area, and even if I did, the values differ greatly from area to area, 
so an assay would be necessary to determine those values within the sand that you have access to. 

29.16 grams is all that is needed for an assay, 
but I always ask for at least 4 ozs of material for any assay that I do on Ores.

I would suggest an ICP for your sand in order to determine how much palladium it contains.
I do not have ICP equipment, so I can't do that assay for you.

The best that I could do is to do a fire assay, collect the bead, if one were present, and send it off for ICP.
In short, and ICP analysis of you sand, or of a bead collected by Fire Assay would be the way to go.

After getting those results, I could figure out approximate value, and help find a buyer for it.

Sincerely, Rick. "The Rock Man".


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## Richard36

Laz,

Put some PVC tubes with 1/8" holes drilled within them, and capped on one end in an old bath tub, then connect those to an air compressor. This is your churning device. Fill the tub 1/3 of the way with water, and add 1 lb of sodium hydroxide. to this solution add your black sand, turn on the compressor, and let run for an hour or two. This will clean your sand, and strip some base metals. Short of this, you could crush the sand to twice it's starting mesh.

If using the tub method, drain the wash water into another large plastic, glass, or ceramic basin, and wash the sand with tap water for 15 minutes to make sure that all the Sodium Hydroxide has been removed.

Now take the washed, or crushed sand, and proceed to amalgamation by placing the sand in a concrete mixer with a couple table spoons of mercury, and let it churn for 24 to 48 hours, then run the sand through a "Blue Bowl to recover the mercury amalgam. Process as stated in my post under "GoldBug University".

Short the Concrete Mixer, you could wash the sand over a copper plate covered with mercury to capture the fine gold, 
then scrape off the mercury, and process it as you would the mercury recovered by using the blue bowl.

Scrap Metal in a concrete mixer with the water, sand, and mercury works reasonably well to crush the sand, 
as well as amalgamate the gold from it, all in one step.

Just some thoughts that I figured may be helpful.

Sincerely, Rick. "The Rock Man".


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## Drewbie

Can you shock the iron sands (heat them up in an oven then drop them into cold water) to split them to get at internal gold, or does that only work with quartz?


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## Barren Realms 007

Drewbie said:


> Can you shock the iron sands (heat them up in an oven then drop them into cold water) to split them to get at internal gold, or does that only work with quartz?



You should be able to roast them in salt and then drop them in water to fracture them.


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## Drewbie

Right. I just found the site where I read about it a while back (and promptly forgot half the story)...

http://www.nuggethunters.org/blacksand.html


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## hussin

hi dear all
my name is Hussin Naiji from Iran.
these posts are Interesting to me because i fined Soil samples containing micron gold .These samples are derived from river alluvium that Piled in the back of an old earth dam(of course The dam is ruined now and With over 600 years old).The soil samples were sent to the laboratory and Was answered by 50 ppm .
But the problem is that micron gold extraction techniques is not in Iran.
I need help for micron gold extraction techniques with Minimum investment .
Thousands of tons of soil is.
my email is [email protected]
'm waiting for comments.
sorry my English is bad i have transleted by google translater.
best regards
Hussin naiji


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## butcher

hussin,

I am not sure if you have much skill in mining, but what I would use is what nature used.

The reason the gold was at that dam was because of the nature of the gold, all of the other materials rocks sand and gravel were lighter than that gold, the gold settled at the dam because it was heavier or denser than the other materials, the dam acted as a sluice box riffle trapped and concentrated the gold in that spot of the river.

So that is how I would get that gold separated, by using golds density, material size separation screening, panning, sluicing, shaker tables, blue bowls, dredges, and other equipment, most of this mining equipment can be home made.

How you proceed would some what depend on how much material you are planing to do a day, a yard or a few tons.

I deleted your other post on this subject (double post), do not double post, your question will be read and answered by members, no need to fill the forum server up with your question.


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## Reno Chris

The answer of 50 ppm does tell you what must be done to extract the gold, only that it is present. 
Normally micron gold requires treatment with cyanide to dissolve.


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## hussin

Reno Chris said:


> The answer of 50 ppm does tell you what must be done to extract the gold, only that it is present.
> Normally micron gold requires treatment with cyanide to dissolve.


 hi Reno Chris thanks for your post and time.
sorry I would amend 70 ppm. But in what form? Can I do it manually? For example, a bucket. The amount of cyanide for a bucket? The amount of activated carbon in a bucket?
I'd need more details. there is the link with more details ?
thanks again
Hussin


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## Reno Chris

I would try gravity based techniques like the use of a gold pan to see if the material has gold which can be recovered that way. Google panning for gold to get more information. 
Giving you information on using cyanide to recover gold is not simple. Cyanide is a deadly poison and there are entire books on the topic of how to use cyanide to recover gold. It is not something a beginner should attempt.


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## Irons

Reno Chris said:


> The answer of 50 ppm does tell you what must be done to extract the gold, only that it is present.
> Normally micron gold requires treatment with cyanide to dissolve.



All of that Iron affect the Cyanide extraction, I'm sure, especially if it's finely divided.


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## hussin

Reno Chris said:


> I would try gravity based techniques like the use of a gold pan to see if the material has gold which can be recovered that way. Google panning for gold to get more information.
> Giving you information on using cyanide to recover gold is not simple. Cyanide is a deadly poison and there are entire books on the topic of how to use cyanide to recover gold. It is not something a beginner should attempt.


Your advice is valuable for me. 
thanks my dear Brother.
Hussin Naiji


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## eng166

I am also interested in recovering precious metals from black sands. I have run aqua regia through much of my material. I do use a small amount of nitric acid in the field on select rocks containing white looking metal. If the nitric acid does nothing to the white looking metal I take that rock home for crushing. 

When dealing with magnetic material I can suggest heat quenching it. Get a metal coffee can punch some holes in the bottom , put about 2 inches of cheap char coal in the bottom. I start the coal with a MAP torch. Then in a cast iron tube with a cast iron bottom filled with magnetic material place in the center of the can. now fill the rest of the can with coal. I let mine cook for about 3 hours on the first run and two hours after that because the coal is not hot to begin with. Caution , this stuff gets real hot. Use tongs and welding gloves to keep from getting burned. Quickly pour the material into a 5 gallon bucket about 3/4 full of water. This will fracture the material. after cooling remove the magnetic material with a magnet. The material that is now not magnetic is what you want to clean up in other processes. I have had some small success with gold. I think I have found palladium and rhodium via flatbed XRF scan from a company in Florida , but they can not do business with miners. I am still looking for a reputable company that can do business with miners. After I clean up my now non magnetic material with hydrochloric acid until i can not get any color change. Then I use nitric acid to remove anything else. Now everything left goes in aqua regia at room temp. What I have left looks like this. The weather where I am is to cold to attempt to cook aqua regia to 130 degrees C for now. 

Can anyone think of a mistake I may have done? Does anyone know an honest smelter slant buyer?

I have 3 different assays from 3 different companies. #1 says palladium and rhodium, but they do not do business with miners. #2 says titanium oxide with iron, they will not return my sample. #3 says nickel with chromium and selenium. All three three samples are from the same batch.


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## FrugalRefiner

eng166 said:


> Can anyone think of a mistake I may have done?


Did you get an assay? It would tell you what you have in your material. Is there a chance there is any arsenic in it? I would want to know that before I started throwing any of it in a fire. One of our members had an experience with arsenic. Perhaps Irons will let you know what that was like.

Dave


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## Reno Chris

Its hard to convince folks of this, but there is nothing mysterious or magical about _*"Black Sands" *_ most examples - like 99% - have only tiny traces of gold. Get assays done by a competent, qualified lab. Get a fire assay done or have the test done by AA. If the test shows just a trace or below detection - that's what you have. Almost nothing. 
Most back sands that do have gold, have free gold that can be best recovered with gravity based methods. Meaning it is best processed with jigs, vibrating tables, blue bowls, spiral wheels and the like. 

putting untested back sand into AR is worse than putting whole, fully populated computer boards directly in AR - both will make a big mess, but at least the computer board is likely to have more than just one or two PPM traces of gold.


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## Bill R

Hussin, Dam sediments are usually fine grained sand to silt size particles. The richest gold concentrations should be where the flow of the river or creek first encounters the dam pond, when the current stops the gold should fall out quickly and seperate itself from the rest of the silt, which takes some time to settle out (muddy water takes all day to clear). You should see if it can be panned out gently in a gold pan, if so, then you should be able to sluice the material through a "beach box" which is a wide sluice with a thin veneer of water designed to extract gold from beach sand, tropical soils also typically carry very fine grained gold and they use a similar setup with two layers of burlap over a carpet, the gold falls through the burlap and sticks to the carpet. If the gold is too fine grained to catch using traditional equipment there are other ways that will work. Before you go and dump cyanide all over everything, you should check out "Mineral jigs" on the internet, you could buy a used one and retrofit it for your unique sedimentary environment (smaller holes and shot). More modern machines such as Knelson concentrators (the company has a catalog on the internet) can catch very fine grained gold and are made for applications like you describe, another comapany to check out is Icon a Canadian company that also specializes in fine grained gold recovery (Iconcentrator.com). Please by all means check out these techniques for recovering fine grained gold before using cyanide, low concentration cyanide heap leaching is for hard rock clasts on the order of 1 to 1/2 inch diameter, to wash your material would require large vats using a higher concentration of cyanide and several washes, you would have waste water to deal with, I would only use cyanide if I had alot of final concentrates under lab conditions,and AR would probably work just as well for small quantities of concentrate. Good luck


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## Irons

FrugalRefiner said:


> eng166 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone think of a mistake I may have done?
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get an assay? It would tell you what you have in your material. Is there a chance there is any arsenic in it? I would want to know that before I started throwing any of it in a fire. One of our members had an experience with arsenic. Perhaps Irons will let you know what that was like.
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...


That's right, FR. $100K worth of medical bills and I still have not broken even yet, but I'm working on it. :mrgreen: You might get lucky and never have a problem. It took 30 years before I got nailed by an Arsenic mineral that had never been reported in this State (Maine)before. It came out of a crack in a ledge where I had already recovered a quantity of Gold fines, so I didn't pay much attention to it, since it had a Gold-like color to it. My bad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic_trisulfide

""Roasting" As2S3 in air gives volatile, toxic derivatives, this conversion being one of the hazards associated with the refining of heavy metal ores:

2 As2S3 + 9 O2 → As4O6 + 6 SO2"


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## hussin

Bill R said:


> Hussin, Dam sediments are usually fine grained sand to silt size particles. The richest gold concentrations should be where the flow of the river or creek first encounters the dam pond, when the current stops the gold should fall out quickly and seperate itself from the rest of the silt, which takes some time to settle out (muddy water takes all day to clear). You should see if it can be panned out gently in a gold pan, if so, then you should be able to sluice the material through a "beach box" which is a wide sluice with a thin veneer of water designed to extract gold from beach sand, tropical soils also typically carry very fine grained gold and they use a similar setup with two layers of burlap over a carpet, the gold falls through the burlap and sticks to the carpet. If the gold is too fine grained to catch using traditional equipment there are other ways that will work. Before you go and dump cyanide all over everything, you should check out "Mineral jigs" on the internet, you could buy a used one and retrofit it for your unique sedimentary environment (smaller holes and shot). More modern machines such as Knelson concentrators (the company has a catalog on the internet) can catch very fine grained gold and are made for applications like you describe, another comapany to check out is Icon a Canadian company that also specializes in fine grained gold recovery (Iconcentrator.com). Please by all means check out these techniques for recovering fine grained gold before using cyanide, low concentration cyanide heap leaching is for hard rock clasts on the order of 1 to 1/2 inch diameter, to wash your material would require large vats using a higher concentration of cyanide and several washes, you would have waste water to deal with, I would only use cyanide if I had alot of final concentrates under lab conditions,and AR would probably work just as well for small quantities of concentrate. Good luck


hi Bill R.your post is for me The Holy Grail. thanks again .i have given my answer .
best regards 
Hussin Naiji


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## Dunamis

Good day friends, I've black sand sample assayed with this result attached and whish to request for good info on processing the gold out though the samples were taking fromtailings of local miners after processed with local sluice box in a mines around my place.thank you.


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## FrugalRefiner

According to your assay, there was no gold in your sample.

Dave


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## Dunamis

hello frugalrefiner, there was a mistake in the file I sent. two samples were sent for analysis the first was to test for zinc in the sample it was a different sample,the second was the tailings of the local miners. I've re attached the results. thanks for the observation.


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## Platdigger

If it is truly that rich, smelt it.


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## Dunamis

hello platdigger, could smelting the material release all the gold content? I'm initially considering using gold concentrator or any tools tools that can recover the material better


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## Platdigger

I don't see why not. You may have to experiment to get the best flux mixture.
Of course you can try concentrating further first. Depending on the size and shape of the gold particles
will lend the ore to concentrate better one way or another.
Have you tried a blue bowl or shaker table? Not sure what you are asking here really.


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## g_axelsson

I agree with Platdigger, if it is that rich smelt it with a flux that makes the other minerals fluid. There's enough gold there so you shouldn't need to add any collector metals.

A curious result though, there are no silver or copper in the sample. I thought most placer deposits contained those metals as contaminants in the gold.

Göran


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## solar_plasma

g_axelsson said:


> I agree with Platdigger, if it is that rich smelt it with a flux that makes the other minerals fluid. There's enough gold there so you shouldn't need to add any collector metals.
> 
> A curious result though, there are no silver or copper in the sample. I thought most placer deposits contained those metals as contaminants in the gold.
> 
> Göran



And then rich in tantal, maybe this is typical for Nigerian ore?


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## g_axelsson

solar_plasma said:


> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Platdigger, if it is that rich smelt it with a flux that makes the other minerals fluid. There's enough gold there so you shouldn't need to add any collector metals.
> 
> A curious result though, there are no silver or copper in the sample. I thought most placer deposits contained those metals as contaminants in the gold.
> 
> Göran
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then rich in tantal, maybe this is typical for Nigerian ore?
Click to expand...

Or salted ore... Dunamis, is someone trying to sell you this ore or have you recovered the sample yourself from the mine tailings?

Göran


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## RGJohn

Dunamis said:


> hello frugalrefiner, there was a mistake in the file I sent. two samples were sent for analysis the first was to test for zinc in the sample it was a different sample,the second was the tailings of the local miners. I've re attached the results. thanks for the observation.



Goodness, do I read your analysis correctly? Over 61% gold?!?
Or is that reported as an oxide as one column seems to suggest? Still pretty hefty amount. Almost unbelievable. And if this is a tailing, whatever must be the primary concentrate? 
Then there appears to be a list of several exotic elemental including rare earths in near phenomenal amounts. I would think anybody with as little as a wheelbarrow full of this stuff would be fixed for life.
Pity that the lab that performed the procedure did not have a piece of stationery with their letterhead on it upon which to report these marvelous results.


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## Dunamis

Hello mentors, kind regards for the responses. sincerely, little knowledge available for the local miners here and with my years of experience in precious metals recovery especially in silver recovery from spent fixers and from contacts and the likes,I've been thinking on how to also recover gold from waste materials. searching for these,I've little or no result for years until I was employed to work in a mines where I've opportunity to go through some researches and some threads on this forum where I got good info onvalues in some tailings. the analysis was done in Nigeria Geological survey agency lab with XRF .,it was the result page I scanned and I keep asking my self is it through though I panned the sample taken personally to have the black sand before I sent it to lab. I've little knowledge in refining and that's why I solicit for good info on how to handle this. thanks


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## Platdigger

I would not have panned these cons before sending off for a assay.
All you know now is how good your panning was.
Unless of course you plan on panning all your cons the same.
I have an ore that is around 2 grams per ton. I can pan this out or down to just about any concentration I choose to.
So having an assay done to your panned results make very little if any sense.


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## Dunamis

Platdigger said:


> I would not have panned these cons before sending off for a assay.
> All you know now is how good your panning was.
> Unless of course you plan on panning all your cons the same.
> I have an ore that is around 2 grams per ton. I can pan this out or down to just about any concentration I choose to.
> So having an assay done to your panned results make very little if any sense.



sir, I took 300g of the tailings and panned it ,I was left with 124g weighed and sent for assay. all I was after then was to be sure if it contains gold because at the mines average of 13 - 15tons of the tailings are produce daily


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## solar_plasma

Without knowing much about ores I think this is [stt]near to[/stt] implausible. If someone tries to sell those tailings to you, I believe, he wants to scam you or there are other dubious reasons for this. Be sure to take some samples yourself. Just my two cents.


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## solar_plasma

Why would anyone leave 20% Au in tailings?? 100 tons (one week production) of those tailings equate to the nominal GDP (52 weeks!) of Nigeria. So, only running those tailings, not the ore itself, for one year, no Nigerian has to work the next 50 years. Gratulations! You solved Africa's problems! Maybe it is a language problem and I didn't get it right, but what I understood sounds like complete nonsens.


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## Dunamis

solar_plasma said:


> Why would anyone leave 20% Au in tailings?? 100 tons (one week production) of those tailings equate to the nominal GDP (52 weeks!) of Nigeria. So, only running those tailings, not the ore itself, for one year, no Nigerian has to work the next 50 years. Gratulations! You solved Africa's problems! Maybe it is a language problem and I didn't get it right, but what I understood sounds like complete nonsens.



uhmm, well I'm sending the remaining sample for assay in another lab for clarification. I will post the results in the next 3 days


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## solar_plasma

Did you collect this sample yourself or did someone give it to you? I believe this sample is a fake.


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## Dunamis

solar_plasma said:


> Did you collect this sample yourself or did someone give it to you? I believe this sample is a fake.



Solar_plasma, I went on research to the mines and while moving round to see their activities I saw them using locally made sluice box and I picked samples from their tafilings by myself labeled and travelled down to my base.


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## Dunamis

Good day all, it was a nice trip to Nispo lab where I met Jeff and Raf,I hand over my samples to them for assay. we all first examined the samples under hand held microscope and we noticed even free gold but most were attached, immediately Raf instructed Jeff to use their hand held XRF to do the analysis, Jeff came up with a wonderful results, virtually closed to the previous assay I did before and even Raf demanded for the materials to be bought from me if I don't mind. he suggested during the analysis that leaching will be better of. many thanks for the contributions from everybody.


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## solar_plasma

Tell Raf and Jef to read the forum and learn what to expect from xrf and what not. Or did they fire assay it?



> even Raf demanded for the materials to be bought from me if I don't mind.



...and now you are believing, we are naive enough to do this, too? :|

Reality check:


> 100 tons (one week production) of those tailings equate to the nominal GDP (52 weeks!) of Nigeria. So, only running those tailings, not the ore itself, for one year, no Nigerian has to work the next 50 years. Gratulations! You solved Africa's problems! Maybe it is a language problem and I didn't get it right, but what I understood sounds like complete nonsens.


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## eastky

solar_plasma said:


> Tell Raf and Jef to read the forum and learn what to expect from xrf and what not. Or did they fire assay it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> even Raf demanded for the materials to be bought from me if I don't mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and now you are believing, we are naive enough to do this, too? :|
> 
> Reality check:
> 
> 
> 
> 100 tons (one week production) of those tailings equate to the nominal GDP (52 weeks!) of Nigeria. So, only running those tailings, not the ore itself, for one year, no Nigerian has to work the next 50 years. Gratulations! You solved Africa's problems! Maybe it is a language problem and I didn't get it right, but what I understood sounds like complete nonsens.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Just my thoughts on this ore. Just with his mentioning Nigeria throws up a red flag. Everyone on the forum knows about gold scams from there. I don't know this fellow and I maybe wrong. He starts posting about this high grade ore and someone reads it contacts him through PM and works up a deal to buy and gets scammed.

I have read enough on this forum to see that members here lookout for the community and will call people out on what seems bogus or to good to be true. That's what makes this a great forum.

I would say READER and or BUYER beware of this ore.


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## solar_plasma

But they seem to become smarter and more subtile. :lol:


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## eastky

solar_plasma said:


> But they seem to become smarter and more subtile. :lol:



Yes they do.


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## kurtak

XRF results on this type material can not be counted on an XRF is not designed for testing this type material

An XRF is designed to test metal & the alloys of metal 

Kurt


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## Dunamis

hello, I've never and will never ask anyone to buy any materials from me. what I requested for is good info on how to recover the gold. simple


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## solar_plasma

Read the safety section, study Hoke's and the forum
Incinerate, calcine or roast (depending on kind of contents/contaminants)
dissolve basemetals in HCl
wash
AR (about 1ml HNO3/g gold)
settle/decant
denox (gold button method or sulfamic)
drop gold (SMB, SO2, FeSO4 or oxalic)/Harold's washes/melt button or rerefine/ show button to the forum
check barren solution for gold
check solids for gold
sell the solids to someone processing tantalum or save it for later, when you are a billionaire and can process it yourself
precipitate waste solution and sell solids to someone processing the other valuable metal contents or save it for later, when you are a billionaire and can process it yourself
save Africa with those billions of Dollars lying on the street in Nigeria

here you are. simple.


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## solar_plasma

20% Au in tailings.... this mine's tailing yards, as wide as the eye can see, must be shining and sparkling in the Nigerian sun in this land, where even the poorest have toilets of pure gold. :mrgreen:


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## Dunamis

solar_plasma said:


> Read the safety section, study Hoke's and the forum
> Incinerate, calcine or roast (depending on kind of contents/contaminants)
> dissolve basemetals in HCl
> wash
> AR (about 1ml HNO3/g gold)
> settle/decant
> denox (gold button method or sulfamic)
> drop gold (SMB, SO2, FeSO4 or oxalic)/Harold's washes/melt button or rerefine/ show button to the forum
> check barren solution for gold
> check solids for gold
> sell the solids to someone processing tantalum or save it for later, when you are a billionaire and can process it yourself
> precipitate waste solution and sell solids to someone processing the other valuable metal contents or save it for later, when you are a billionaire and can process it yourself
> save Africa with those billions of Dollars lying on the street in Nigeria
> 
> here you are. simple.



thanks for the info, pls I've a question. can I reuse the AR?


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## rickbb

Dunamis said:


> thanks for the info, pls I've a question. can I reuse the AR?




No, when finished it will be diluted, contaminated with base metals and mixed with other chemicals as part of the process to recover the gold. You will have to treat it as hazardous waste and remove the various metals it will contain before safely disposing of it.

When you've read more on the process it will make sense.


----------



## Dunamis

rickbb said:


> Dunamis said:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for the info, pls I've a question. can I reuse the AR?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, when finished it will be diluted, contaminated with base metals and mixed with other chemicals as part of the process to recover the gold. You will have to treat it as hazardous waste and remove the various metals it will contain before safely disposing of it.
> 
> When you've read more on the process it will make sense.
Click to expand...


cool thank you for the info,is there any other leaching methods that can be recommended, I read few thread some suggested SSN leaching, cyanide. I want available chemicals, nitric is expensive and not available chemicals due to insurgent activities.


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## Dunamis

hello. how long does it take to leach the materials in the AR?


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## Harold_V

Dunamis said:


> hello. how long does it take to leach the materials in the AR?


I'm assuming you're talking about concentrates, or ores. 
You don't. 
It can't be stressed enough that AR is not an acceptable process for extracting values from ores or concentrates. That is true in almost all cases, although the process can work. The consumption of acid and the huge volume of hazardous waste, to say nothing of the complications of dissolving all manner of troublesome materials, makes it not a good idea. 

Harold


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## solar_plasma

Harold, did you read, that his "tailings" contain 20% Au, which he concentrated to 60%? I still don't believe there is any thruth in this. I mentioned AR only because of this already almost only is gold, a gold content comparable to jewelry.


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## Dunamis

solar_plasma said:


> Harold, did you read, that his "tailings" contain 20% Au, which he concentrated to 60%? I still don't believe there is any thruth in this. I mentioned AR only because of this already almost only is gold, a gold content comparable to jewelry.



solar_plasma, I'm scared about your writings. if you can't help on good info as regard my request better don't write, either you believe or not it doesn't change my materials content. 
Harold, indeed I've read a lot about your posts and kind regards to your vast experience and good manner of approach on this forum. I once had similar encounter on materials like this on recyclebiz.com when some guys attack me on my Africa cat, when I post on catalytic convertor in Nigeria then, all were saying it is not available in Nigeria until someone came up with the volume he got when he visited Africa. this is a social media and my respect for this forum is that even things that cant be taught in universities are being taught here recently I've been on Hooke's book and could say it was wonderful to have in my archives. pls I don't take offend in anybody post but kudos to the good work on the forum


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## solar_plasma

If you are not a scammer, which I can't know, then i believe there are mistakes in what you told us, you are not aware of. I imagine mountains of tailings (left overs after processing/concentrating ore) with 20% og gold in it, only a little less than in my gold ring I wear. I told what I would do, if I had that stuff and could be sure the assay is correct. Read Ammen's, read Hoke's, read the many threads about ore's and some old free books mentioned in the forum could also help somewhat.


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## Harold_V

solar_plasma said:


> Harold, did you read, that his "tailings" contain 20% Au, which he concentrated to 60%? I still don't believe there is any thruth in this. I mentioned AR only because of this already almost only is gold, a gold content comparable to jewelry.


I must say that I probably didn't understand the claim, but I have had personal experience with extracting values from relatively high concentrations. That would include a substantial amount of gold mixed with black sand. It works, but presents its own problems. I would recommend it only under the worst possible scenario. 

And---and there is an and-----I would determine what percentage of silver is contained within, assuming the particles of gold are of any substance, as silver would slow, maybe even stop, extraction. That's one of the benefits of using cyanide, although unless the values are very fine (small) in nature, it may not function all that well, either. 

I'll play the devil's advocate for a moment, and assume that there really is a 60% gold concentration. If that be the case, there's not a doubt in my mind---I'd go after the values with a furnace. With such a high concentration of values, even if one achieved just one heat per crucible (you would get more), it would most likely be the most economical and reliable method to operate. If a collector was required, I believe I'd use silver. After all, we're dealing with a very critical value, so that would justify the investment. 

I do have an issue with the idea that those who created the dump site would have left behind visible gold. Not saying it wouldn't have been possible, but it certainly makes little sense, especially when one considers that mercury has been used with reckless abandon in such a case. 

Lets leave it like this. I'm skeptical, but open to evidence to support the claim. Mean time, it is my recommendation that no one get involved with this project, aside from providing guidance where it may be appropriate. Mean time, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck -----

Harold


----------



## Dunamis

Harold_V said:


> solar_plasma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Harold, did you read, that his "tailings" contain 20% Au, which he concentrated to 60%? I still don't believe there is any thruth in this. I mentioned AR only because of this already almost only is gold, a gold content comparable to jewelry.
> 
> 
> 
> I must say that I probably didn't understand the claim, but I have had personal experience with extracting values from relatively high concentrations. That would include a substantial amount of gold mixed with black sand. It works, but presents its own problems. I would recommend it only under the worst possible scenario.
> 
> And---and there is an and-----I would determine what percentage of silver is contained within, assuming the particles of gold are of any substance, as silver would slow, maybe even stop, extraction. That's one of the benefits of using cyanide, although unless the values are very fine (small) in nature, it may not function all that well, either.
> 
> I'll play the devil's advocate for a moment, and assume that there really is a 60% gold concentration. If that be the case, there's not a doubt in my mind---I'd go after the values with a furnace. With such a high concentration of values, even if one achieved just one heat per crucible (you would get more), it would most likely be the most economical and reliable method to operate. If a collector was required, I believe I'd use silver. After all, we're dealing with a very critical value, so that would justify the investment.
> 
> I do have an issue with the idea that those who created the dump site would have left behind visible gold. Not saying it wouldn't have been possible, but it certainly makes little sense, especially when one considers that mercury has been used with reckless abandon in such a case.
> 
> Lets leave it like this. I'm skeptical, but open to evidence to support the claim. Mean time, it is my recommendation that no one get involved with this project, aside from providing guidance where it may be appropriate. Mean time, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck -----
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...



Harold, I salute you. open mind.your comment is helpful thank you sir


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## kurtak

Harold_V said:


> I'll play the devil's advocate for a moment, and assume that there really is a 60% gold concentration. If that be the case, there's not a doubt in my mind---I'd go after the values with a furnace. With such a high concentration of values, even if one achieved just one heat per crucible (you would get more), it would most likely be the most economical and reliable method to operate. If a collector was required, I believe I'd use silver. After all, we're dealing with a very critical value, so that would justify the investment.
> 
> Harold



Harold is spot on here - smelting is the best way to treat this material - There are a number of pretreatments that NEED to be done before smelting 

Smelting is the ONLY way I would consider for this type material - not saying other methods wont work - just that smelting is by far the better way to go

Dunamis - you need to start doing A LOT of research before you start doing any processing - this is NOT an ask a few question get a few answers kind of thing to learn - & I am not talking just about smelting - but ALL of it "requires" MUCH research - with out research (lots of it) you will only run into troubles :!: 

I have been doing this for 4 plus years now - & I am still doing research - every day :!: 

Kurt


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## solar_plasma

> because at the mines average of 13 - 15tons of the tailings are produce daily



One or two trucks loads a day with a content comparable to 5K scrap. Tell us when you through all the gold on the market, so we get some short positions 8) Joke aside, I really hope for you, that you aren't getting scammed by your local contacts or by the gold fever. C.W. Ammen's book seem to be a good start for someone interested in the basics of processing ores. Try a search.


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## Dunamis

kurtak said:


> Harold_V said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll play the devil's advocate for a moment, and assume that there really is a 60% gold concentration. If that be the case, there's not a doubt in my mind---I'd go after the values with a furnace. With such a high concentration of values, even if one achieved just one heat per crucible (you would get more), it would most likely be the most economical and reliable method to operate. If a collector was required, I believe I'd use silver. After all, we're dealing with a very critical value, so that would justify the investment.
> 
> Harold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harold is spot on here - smelting is the best way to treat this material - There are a number of pretreatments that NEED to be done before smelting
> 
> Smelting is the ONLY way I would consider for this type material - not saying other methods wont work - just that smelting is by far the better way to go
> 
> Dunamis - you need to start doing A LOT of research before you start doing any processing - this is NOT an ask a few question get a few answers kind of thing to learn - & I am not talking just about smelting - but ALL of it "requires" MUCH research - with out research (lots of it) you will only run into troubles :!:
> 
> I have been doing this for 4 plus years now - & I am still doing research - every day :!:
> 
> Kurt
Click to expand...


Kurtak, 
really you have said it all. I've been on different articles,books and researches. this is one of the write up I stumbled upon http://mine-engineer.com/mining/minproc/cyanide_leach.htm
I believe it worth giving my time and money. I've been trying gold recovery from waste materials for years with no results and now I think if I got necessary technical way on this it worth it. I'm one of the few Nigerians that started silver recovery from spent fixers in those days. it wasn't easier coming about it then but at last I got it, I did fabricate an electrolytic cells to recover my silver later I adopted chemical precipitation. sincerely it was a journey that pay off at the end so I'm on with this project and I believe it shall be successful,a lot of lessons of life have shown me to keep trying and learning new things "we learn better when we learn always" I'm different from people that doesn't read. long time ago I was taught to read wide if I want to grow wide.
I'm still humble and give respects to you guys that are in front Previous metal wise and to those we are equal(people like me that are still trying to put their fit right)


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## Dunamis

uhmm, different school of taught on the cons or ores. I stumbled on different method, SSN leaching on web as quoted 
"February 4, 2008
I recently came across this simple solution for gold refining and I copy the recipe directly as is:"SSN Leach.7: 1 (Saturated salt and Nitric acid) this is one of the best leaches for leaching gold and complex hard to leach oresand can be enhanced with addition of a small amount of Iodine. The only downside is that once you have leached your ore or carbon you must neutralize the nitric before you try toextract any of the precious metals out of the pregnant leach. Follow the directions very carefully and you will have an excellent leach for your ore and carbon. This is a mild but very aggressive leach for gold and other precious metals such as the platinum group metals (PGM's). It is not as harmful to the skinas the AR leach nor are the fumes quite as toxic, but we still recommend care and caution when making and handling this leach.DIRECTIONS: NOTE: This recipe is for 2 gallons of leach; you just use the same ratio to make any amount you want. Be sure that you have a well-ventilated area when mixing any chemicals . . . do not breath the fumes!1. Bring 2 gallons of distilled water to a boil in a coated metal pan . . . like the gray/black ones used for canning.2. Add in about 6 pounds of non-iodized salt and stir in very well. You want to fully saturatethe salt into the water.3. Let the solution cool overnight and let all of the excess salt settle to the bottom of the container. Some salt may still be floating on top or stuck to the sides of the container . . . just tap on the side of the container and they will settle to the bottom.4. Dip out 7 quarts of the saturated salt water into another plastic or glass container. You will have a lot of salt gathered in the bottom and approx. a qt of water, just save this for thenext batch and repeat the process but use approx. 5+ pounds of salt on the second and future batches. We just use plastic buckets with lids on them.5. Now to your 7 quarts of saturated salt wateryou add 1 quart of Nitric Acid and mix it together. BE CAREFUL OF THE FUMES that are released. DO NOT BREATHE THEM!6. If you want the leach to be more aggressive. . . which you probably will not need because it is very aggressive as it is . . . you can add upto 1 ounce of iodine. This is the iodine that you buy at a feed store that is used on livestock. It is 7% solution of iodine and costs$20 a gallon."The solution must be neutralised before precipitation. Simple Urea works well. Add small amounts of Urea until fizzing stops.Now use Sodium Metabisulphate to drop yourgold as a brown mud to the bottom of your container. Wash mud with ammonia to make sure all other impurities are dissolved , rinse with distilled water, dry and melt your gold.!Hope this is helpful.Johan Reyneke- Pretoria"


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## g_axelsson

Dunamis said:


> Now use Sodium Metabisulphate to drop your gold as a brown mud to the bottom of your container.


Sodium Metabisulphate doesn't precipitate gold, Sodium Metabisulphite does.

As for the rest of the description I have no experience of it and will not comment on it. I still recommend smelting, just as Harold did.

And I'm still skeptical to the amount of gold in your analyze and the lack of common contaminants. It almost sounds like a famous scam from USA. The geologists sampling an area got high gold readings in the morning samples but less later in the days. They were not allowed to use their own tools for sampling and in the end it was found out that the owner of the property added gold dust or gold containing material to the tools during the night. It was enough to transfer back to the samples and hint of a large gold ore. I can't find that report right now but here are some recommended readings about gold scams :
- http://www.nbmg.unr.edu/dox/sp22.pdf
- https://web.archive.org/web/20110810042432/http://minerals.state.nv.us/forms/mining/DiggingDeepIntoMiningHandout.pdf

Göran


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## Dunamis

g_axelsson said:


> Dunamis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now use Sodium Metabisulphate to drop your gold as a brown mud to the bottom of your container.
> 
> 
> 
> Sodium Metabisulphate doesn't precipitate gold, Sodium Metabisulphite does.
> 
> As for the rest of the description I have no experience of it and will not comment on it. I still recommend smelting, just as Harold did.
> 
> And I'm still skeptical to the amount of gold in your analyze and the lack of common contaminants. It almost sounds like a famous scam from USA. The geologists sampling an area got high gold readings in the morning samples but less later in the days. They were not allowed to use their own tools for sampling and in the end it was found out that the owner of the property added gold dust or gold containing material to the tools during the night. It was enough to transfer back to the samples and hint of a large gold ore. I can't find that report right now but here are some recommended readings about gold scams :
> - http://www.nbmg.unr.edu/dox/sp22.pdf
> - https://web.archive.org/web/20110810042432/http://minerals.state.nv.us/forms/mining/DiggingDeepIntoMiningHandout.pdf
> 
> Göran
Click to expand...


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## Dunamis

Sincerely, this forum is great, some things are coming to my memory. I remember my university days when we do tutorials among course mates especially on outcrops students came up with topics and dissect.

so far from few things i got:
1, I need to use rare magnet to remove irons in the cons
2, I need to use HCl to remove contaminants and base metals 
3, I need to incinerate the materials
4, then I can follow any method chosen, if smelting I need good flux that can do the job,
if leaching then I will follow the type and the instruction. precaution; it must be perform outdoor. I'm learning from the forum oooo


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## solar_plasma

Fire assay using litharge could also be something you want to look into. There is a lot written about it on the forum...and again in Ammen's Recovery and refining of precious metals. Also the usage of collector metals is described there and the extraction of gold from lead with zinc. The book isn't too expensive, now and the there is a link to older versions.


----------



## necromancer

Dunamis said:


> solar_plasma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would anyone leave 20% Au in tailings?? 100 tons (one week production) of those tailings equate to the nominal GDP (52 weeks!) of Nigeria. So, only running those tailings, not the ore itself, for one year, no Nigerian has to work the next 50 years. Gratulations! You solved Africa's problems! Maybe it is a language problem and I didn't get it right, but what I understood sounds like complete nonsens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uhmm, well I'm sending the remaining sample for assay in another lab for clarification. I will post the results in the next 3 days
Click to expand...


watching this show http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3701166/ (fool's gold) in Ontario Canada
they stated that there may be as much as 40% Au in the tailings piles.

fact or fiction ? who knows for sure. the series was a very short run (8 parts only)


----------



## Dunamis

solar_plasma said:


> Fire assay using litharge could also be something you want to look into. There is a lot written about it on the forum...and again in Ammen's Recovery and refining of precious metals. Also the usage of collector metals is described there and the extraction of gold from lead with zinc. The book isn't too expensive, now and the there is a link to older versions.



thanks, I've been searching for the links to the old version. do you have the link pls?


----------



## g_axelsson

Dunamis said:


> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dunamis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now use Sodium Metabisulphate to drop your gold as a brown mud to the bottom of your container.
> 
> 
> 
> Sodium Metabisulphate doesn't precipitate gold, Sodium Metabisulphite does.
> 
> As for the rest of the description I have no experience of it and will not comment on it. I still recommend smelting, just as Harold did.
> 
> And I'm still skeptical to the amount of gold in your analyze and the lack of common contaminants. It almost sounds like a famous scam from USA. The geologists sampling an area got high gold readings in the morning samples but less later in the days. They were not allowed to use their own tools for sampling and in the end it was found out that the owner of the property added gold dust or gold containing material to the tools during the night. It was enough to transfer back to the samples and hint of a large gold ore. I can't find that report right now but here are some recommended readings about gold scams :
> - http://www.nbmg.unr.edu/dox/sp22.pdf
> - https://web.archive.org/web/20110810042432/http://minerals.state.nv.us/forms/mining/DiggingDeepIntoMiningHandout.pdf
> 
> Göran
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Was it something you wanted to say?

Göran


----------



## Dunamis

g_axelsson said:


> Dunamis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dunamis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now use Sodium Metabisulphate to drop your gold as a brown mud to the bottom of your container.
> 
> 
> 
> Sodium Metabisulphate doesn't precipitate gold, Sodium Metabisulphite does.
> 
> As for the rest of the description I have no experience of it and will not comment on it. I still recommend smelting, just as Harold did.
> 
> And I'm still skeptical to the amount of gold in your analyze and the lack of common contaminants. It almost sounds like a famous scam from USA. The geologists sampling an area got high gold readings in the morning samples but less later in the days. They were not allowed to use their own tools for sampling and in the end it was found out that the owner of the property added gold dust or gold containing material to the tools during the night. It was enough to transfer back to the samples and hint of a large gold ore. I can't find that report right now but here are some recommended readings about gold scams :
> - http://www.nbmg.unr.edu/dox/sp22.pdf
> - https://web.archive.org/web/20110810042432/http://minerals.state.nv.us/forms/mining/DiggingDeepIntoMiningHandout.pdf
> 
> Göran
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was it something you wanted to say?
> 
> Göran
Click to expand...


no, you have also help my quest to beware of vices in gold recovery. thank you


----------



## jungle_Dave

Hi Dunamis,

I live in Brazil and see people waste gold all the time here. Watch any of the popular tv shows on discovery channel and have a good laugh (or cry) watching people throw away massive amounts of perfectly good material.
That said Brazil is as famous for gold scams as it is for samba!
Enriching ore samples is common practice here so it would not surprise me people do this in Africa too.
If what you have is a concentrate (which it must be) Id pan it first and save the leftovers for further processing.
Anyone feel free to correct me if you think Im wrong.
This would greatly reduce your chemical expenditures or improve your smelt test.
Always be wary of anyone standing on top on a hole with a smile on there face offering you the chance of a lifetime.
Due diligence pays of in the end.


Best wishes and best of luck!


----------



## kurtak

jungle_Dave said:


> Hi Dunamis,
> 
> I live in Brazil and see people waste gold all the time here. Watch any of the popular tv shows on discovery channel and have a good laugh (or cry) watching people throw away massive amounts of perfectly good material.
> That said Brazil is as famous for gold scams as it is for samba!
> Enriching ore samples is common practice here so it would not surprise me people do this in Africa too.
> If what you have is a concentrate (which it must be) Id pan it first and save the leftovers for further processing.
> Anyone feel free to correct me if you think Im wrong.
> This would greatly reduce your chemical expenditures or improve your smelt test.
> Always be wary of anyone standing on top on a hole with a smile on there face offering you the chance of a lifetime.
> Due diligence pays of in the end.
> 
> 
> Best wishes and best of luck!



Its called "salting the claim"

Kurt


----------



## Pagal12

Dunamis said:


> Harold_V said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> solar_plasma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Harold, did you read, that his "tailings" contain 20% Au, which he concentrated to 60%? I still don't believe there is any thruth in this. I mentioned AR only because of this already almost only is gold, a gold content comparable to jewelry.
> 
> 
> 
> I must say that I probably didn't understand the claim, but I have had personal experience with extracting values from relatively high concentrations. That would include a substantial amount of gold mixed with black sand. It works, but presents its own problems. I would recommend it only under the worst possible scenario.
> 
> And---and there is an and-----I would determine what percentage of silver is contained within, assuming the particles of gold are of any substance, as silver would slow, maybe even stop, extraction. That's one of the benefits of using cyanide, although unless the values are very fine (small) in nature, it may not function all that well, either.
> 
> I'll play the devil's advocate for a moment, and assume that there really is a 60% gold concentration. If that be the case, there's not a doubt in my mind---I'd go after the values with a furnace. With such a high concentration of values, even if one achieved just one heat per crucible (you would get more), it would most likely be the most economical and reliable method to operate. If a collector was required, I believe I'd use silver. After all, we're dealing with a very critical value, so that would justify the investment.
> 
> I do have an issue with the idea that those who created the dump site would have left behind visible gold. Not saying it wouldn't have been possible, but it certainly makes little sense, especially when one considers that mercury has been used with reckless abandon in such a case.
> 
> Lets leave it like this. I'm skeptical, but open to evidence to support the claim. Mean time, it is my recommendation that no one get involved with this project, aside from providing guidance where it may be appropriate. Mean time, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck -----
> 
> Harold
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Harold, I salute you. open mind.your comment is helpful thank you sir
Click to expand...


----------

