# Harvesting Cats Comments



## lazersteve (Dec 5, 2007)

Here is where you should post your comments to my latest PGM tutorial found here:

Harvesting Cats

Steve


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## aflacglobal (Dec 5, 2007)

Great video Steve. And the picture quality is awesome.
They just keep getting better. 
:wink:


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## Anonymous (Dec 9, 2007)

Not only great video but excellent sound quality also. All of them have been great Steve. Quick ? though. Instead of the 10 minutes using a cutoff wheel could you use a cutting torch or would that destroy the honeycomb?


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## aflacglobal (Dec 9, 2007)

welcome to the forum reverend.


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## loco (Dec 9, 2007)

IMHO I just think steve likes to keep things nice and clean and neat for all his projects. I have heard/read which researching PGM processing from cats that it basicly boils down to retieve how ever you can the material inside. some methods may cause cause a loss of some material so beware, and know that may be the outcome from choices you make.


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## aflacglobal (Dec 9, 2007)

I would think a cutting torch should not really matter. EXCEPT :!: 

Watch out for the fumes. Just think of the polluants that are trapped on the inside of the cover. Once heated these will become concentrated and vaporized. I wouldn't want a lung full of that. Nope, no sir.

Plus i think the reason Steve recommends the cut off wheel is because when you go to cutting into something like this the dangers of just getting burnt alone from the process is very highly likely. Even for the people who do this for a living it can be dangerous. The home refiner would be better off using the wheel. Me i want the biggest torch i can find. :shock:


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## lazersteve (Dec 9, 2007)

Reverend,

I'm glad you liked the video.



Reverend said:


> Instead of the 10 minutes using a cutoff wheel could you use a cutting torch or would that destroy the honeycomb?



I've never tried using the torch. I try to save my gas for melting gold and small welding jobs. It would be interesting to hear from someone that has used a torch as to how long it takes to get thru the shell. 

I estimated the elapsed time as 10 minutes, it may have been a little less.

I doubt the catalyst would be damaged by a torch.

As with most of my videos they are meant as guides and the procedures are not carved in stone as far as the equipment is concerned in most cases.

Steve


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## Lou (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm more afraid of using a cut off wheel than a torch. My friend's son is disfigured from a faulty cutting wheel breaking and hitting through the face shield and in the face. He had plenty of experience operating an angle grinder for years, it just happened that he had a bad wheel.

Oxypropane would be much cheaper than using oxyacetylene. Petrogen would also be nice.

Or, the fastest, cleanest way I can vouch for on cutting open a cat is with a plasma cutter. They're expensive rigs but are a very fast and useful tool.


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## Irons (Dec 10, 2007)

Along time ago, I read an article from a Popular Mechanics from the WWII era exhorting people to make a home Sulfuric Acid plant for the War effort. They used Platinum on Asbestos for the catalyst but crushed and cleaned auto cats would probably work even better.

It works by burning Sulfur in air and passing the resulting SO2 with air through a heated tube with cat. The resulting SO3 goes into water to make H2SO4.

In case you're wondering where the cats that are sold to recyclers go and who refines the PGMs:

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/platinum/myb1-2006-plati.pdf


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## aflacglobal (Dec 10, 2007)

> I'm more afraid of using a cut off wheel than a torch. My friend's son is disfigured from a faulty cutting wheel breaking and hitting through the face shield and in the face. He had plenty of experience operating an angle grinder for years, it just happened that he had a bad wheel.



When i went thru machinist school i had a wheel fly apart on me on a surface grinder-polisher. You can hold the wheel thru the center of the hole with a screw driver. Then tap the wheel with something metal. If you hear a ringing you are good to go. It you don't here a ringing and it sounds dull you could have a hair line crack that you cannot see. But when that wheel starts spining at a few thousand rpm's it can just fly apart. If the wheel get to hot from grinding it can affect the glue that holds the material together resulting in a bad day. Don't let the wheel over heat. Even if you remove it for a couple of seconds every now and then it will help cool it down.


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## daveerf (Dec 11, 2007)

I believe the cat shells are usually made of 400 Series Stainless Steel and a torch may not cut fast with the oxidizing effect like on regular Steel. I think it will melt through it though, but it's quite slower. The plasma cutter will go very fast and you can get a smaller 110V version that's not nearly as expensive as the 220V or 3 Phase models.

The absolute fastest way is with a hydraulic shear but those are very expensive.

A circular saw with a thin metal cutting disk might work and it's less likely to cause injury due to the light weight of the disk and being under a guard and below you, but this is theory on the speed or even feasibility, as I have never tried it. Key word is "theory" lol
However, the plasma cutter is the fastest and still in the price range of a beginner if you get a small 110V one used. It also won't blow flames on to the honeycomb like the torch , resulting in noxious fumes , and will just put a light spray of sparks out. I'm guessing the time would be about 10 to 15 seconds to run the plasma cutter tip around the cat and may be faster depending on your experience and size of the plasma cutter.


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## Smitty (Dec 11, 2007)

I've tried to remove the combs by several methods and it seems like the bandsaw with metal cutting blade similar to a hack saw is the method I used most often. 

Torch : I've had several combs that I have come across with hot melted steel from torches on them during the removal of the cat from the automobile. Cutting the cat with a torch will come very close to the combs. Make sure you angle the cat down so that the hot steel falls away from the combs. If you do came across steel on the comb, just take a chisel and carefully remove the steel from the comb. This option is fast but can be messy if you are not good at cutting with a torch.

Plasma torch : Never tried it but I hear it has a clean cut and fast, but again expensive.

Hand cutting wheel on a drill : It keeps slipping from the steel casing and sliding off the side. Throws a lot of sparks and make sure you clamp that sucker down good. It takes a lot of time also. Looks like Steve was using a pneumatic hand saw. I had not tried that but it looks great. 

Hacksaw : It works, but it takes a lot of elbow grease. It'll take awhile to cut thru the casing.

Chopsaw : Hear it works , but never used it before. I'm guessing it might be a little heavy and good clamping a must.

Band Saw : I have used this most often. Make sure you get a metal cutting bandsaw blade. Time to cut is not too long and does not emit any fumes.

You can decide which will work for you. Hope this helps somebody.

Very nice video Steve. Are you going to redo some of the gold videos with this new camera?


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## lazersteve (Dec 11, 2007)

Smitty said:


> Very nice video Steve. Are you going to redo some of the gold videos with this new camera?



Smitty, 

It's the same camera, I just process the videos differently after filming now. Unfortunately my hard drive(s) were filled early on when I started filming and I foolishly pitched the older originals. For this reason I will have to refilm the early videos to regain the quality that I had lost in the early format conversion process. I'm very swamped with my side businesses and new refining videos so that is a job for another day. That is on my to do list however.

Steve


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## dixie (Jan 1, 2008)

Harbor Freight tools has a very nice automatic band saw that can be bought on sale for 149.00 most of the time. I bought mine when it was onsale for 149 and I also had a 20% off coupon so I paid about 125 with tax.

They also have an air shear for 19.95 on sale if you have an air compressor to push it with.

Mike


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## loco (Jan 1, 2008)

a couple guys have mentioned just plain and simple cutting the cats in 1/2. and then sticking a small rod/stick or whatever and pushing out the cakes. not sure if there is ever an instance this won't work or is a bad idea. just what a couple have mentioned.


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## Anonymous (Jan 22, 2008)

so the PMG is in the honeycomb also??
i thought it was just along the walls of the honeycomb??
nice video btw


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## Gotrek (Jan 29, 2008)

Reciprocating saw works the best, quicker and safer then a cut off wheel and still just as precise. The draw back is a need for some form of clamp to keep the cat stable.


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## loco (Jan 29, 2008)

Gotrek said:


> The draw back is a need for some form of clamp to keep the cat stable.




that and the going threw blades very quickly.

-Rich


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## agpodt77339 (Jan 29, 2008)

The blades don't get used up that fast. I got a saw over a month ago and am still using the same blade. The blades cost about $10 for 15 blades at Home Depot, so even if you went through a lot, they aren't that expensive. I have cut open converters, cut through wood, several bolts, and several other items and it is still working good. As long as you don't snap them in half, they can last a while.


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## Gotrek (Jan 30, 2008)

loco said:


> Gotrek said:
> 
> 
> > The draw back is a need for some form of clamp to keep the cat stable.
> ...



If you use it properly and let the saw do the cutting it should last almost forever. I use short demolition/fire/rescue rated blades last me about 1 year working on sheet metal every day. A little cutting oil and it should last forever.


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## Froggy (Feb 3, 2008)

I have used all of the above mentioned, and a chop saw (like a muffler shop has) is by far the most effective,fastes method, like 10 seconds!!!!! And all the pretty sparks are fun to watch.


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## synthetiklone (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi all, unfortunately, I am on dialup and cant get the complete vid to download properly, but reading your msgs here, I thought Id better add some info on what Ive seen.

We have a local recycler that buys converters from over the whole lower region where I live.. about 300 kilometer radious north of city. Anyway, he pays top dollar (NZ$30 to $50) per cat converter, and is very busy everyday "cracking them open. I'll explain what I've seen for his process which is simple.

He has a phenumatic guillotine rig, where the blade has a V notch cut into it so the converter dosent slide while cutting. It is about a foot wide. There is a hole in front and behind the blade, which allows the internals (ceramic bits) to fall down into a large canvas sack. Directly in front of the operator, there is a solid flat anvil strength block, with a ramp down into one of the holes, this is for banging the open end of the converter on to free up anything stuck inside. The operator stands up high, via 1.5 meter ladder, on a small decking, so everything falls into sack. He has a foot operated phenumatic switch. The operator is ALSO MOST IMPORTANTLY wearing plastic coveralls, with a sealed face mask, and full face clear shield, into the plastic suit is pumped clean fresh filtered outside air, so the operator is always under a positive pressure, no particles are able to enter the suit, and apparently it is quite pleasant and cooling for non-stop cat recycling!

Now all this sounds like an expensive setup, well, when you see it, it sure looks very homemade, and the phenumatics and simple lever gearing for the guillotine are very simple. It is a grunt machine for the home hobbyist, but, from what I gather he receives per sack of ceramics, and doing the calc on what he pays for the raw converters, and that he offers a free bin (  ) and free pickup regionwide from all the mechanics, and muffler shops, He travels the 300km radius twice a week, staying away while doing the "rounds". He was making on the hundreds of thousands of NZ$, and platinum prices have gone up since then. He sends all the sacks to Japan, and has had a VERY bad experience dealing with an outfit in China, as in sending a container of gold pins/etc, and plat ceramic, and never hearing, or seeing from them again.. I heard he even traveled there to chase them up, but they'd dissapeared! So be wary if dealing in China, or anywhere..

Anyway, I dont know what your area might be like for competition, but if you can afford it, get a guillotine setup welded together, it is REALLY fast, and really simple (unless you leave your hand under the blades of course, but Ive never seen a one handed worker down there yet!) if you have to open them everyday or so, and try and buy and turnover more... there is big money from what I see in this industry, and this guy I talk about is at the moment worried, as some people have been poking around, making enquiries, and he thinks they are setting up competition to him. He is onto a good thing, and I'd be worried too.


Anyway.. regards all...

SK


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## Froggy (Mar 8, 2008)

I went down to techemet, they use a welding machine, one of those wire fed blue ones, suppose they turn it all the way up then its just melts right through, they do thousands a day like that..


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## Buzz (Mar 9, 2008)

These things look quite handy, quick too

Check out the video

http://tinyurl.com/368d4l

Regards
Buzz


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## Gotrek (Mar 10, 2008)

Froggy said:


> I went down to techemet, they use a welding machine, one of those wire fed blue ones, suppose they turn it all the way up then its just melts right through, they do thousands a day like that..




Wire fed = Mig or Flux Core, isn't that a huge waste of consumables? A fire/rescue blade on a sawzall(reciprocating saw) cost 8$ and will probably last you 1000 cat converters (*WARNING* out of thin air guesstimate)

One roll of flux core is 11-13$ it would last you maybe 100 converters per 2lb spool, If you are using gas (hopefully not) the price goes up.


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## Froggy (Mar 11, 2008)

After cutting the cats open they seperated what was inside, there is a wire mesh (dont know what its made of) that is wrapped around the substrate, they had Huge pressed bales of this mesh, at least 10 pallets!!!! Also very little dust. If any of us had the problem of finding the most effeciant way of gutting cats, ,,, would be a nice problem to have...


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## markqf1 (Mar 20, 2008)

The guillotine idea sounds great, maybe even fun!
I bet it would attract a little attention in a subdivision though.  

Mark


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## Froggy (Mar 20, 2008)

Goteck, the fire rescue blades only last about 10-20 converters and thats at the pipe(removing the converter), it would never work on the body..... it would flat tear it up////


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## Gotrek (Mar 24, 2008)

I'm surprised. Maybe you're forcing your blade and not letting the blade do the cutting.

I do exhausts in my driveway and My blades last a long time maybe 25-30 jobs


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## Anonymous (Apr 19, 2008)

New to the forum,,,, and lookin at starting harvesting in Milwaukee,

jsut wondering if the honeycomb needs to be crushed or can it be processed as a unit,,,

where are the metals located ,,, throughout the ceramic or deposited on the surface,,,

i would think that would affect the method of extraction from the metal


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## Scott2357 (Apr 19, 2008)

Crushed or whole is ok. PMs are coated on the surface.


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## flankdrive04 (Jun 10, 2008)

There is alot of focus on how to cut cats open. Here is Australia we do it the redneck way, length of broom handle and a hammer. You can get it all out in about 3 minuites flat! good if you have a big stack to do! :lol:


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## flankdrive04 (Jun 10, 2008)

...you might even try a hydraulic wood spliter. My neighbour has a 30ton unit with a 1 1/4 inch thick (hardened and sharpened to a knife edge) blade on the back.

I think I will convince him to give it a go!!! :twisted:


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