# RAM recycling



## Swissgoldrefiner (Jan 14, 2021)

Hello, 
I just recived 100kg of RAM gold fingered and i want to process them.
The only part which is containing gold is the finger or it worth to workout as well the other component?
What's usually the yield from 1 kilo of gold fingered ram?

Thanks!


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## nickvc (Jan 14, 2021)

Welcome to the forum.
I may be wrong as I’m no expert at e scrap but I believe there is more gold in the chips than on the fingers but if I’m wrong I’m sure someone will correct me.


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## Swissgoldrefiner (Jan 14, 2021)

But in video on youtube, it looks like the most of people recycle only the fingers. 
I didnt find any discussion in the forum about RAM. If you can suggest any recip it can be nice.


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## nickvc (Jan 14, 2021)

Search treating chips and the processes here on the forum there is plenty of information available, some go for incineration other people simply crush to release the bonding wires.
Most things about recovery and refining are covered here and in detail you just have to search and read, if you can’t understand something ask and you will be answered so long as you do your part and read.


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## kurtak (Jan 14, 2021)

Swissgoldrefiner said:


> But in video on youtube, it looks like the most of people recycle only the fingers.



That's because those videos are only about how to recover & refine the gold finger "part" of the RAM

The process for recovering & refining the gold "inside" the IC chips that are on the RAM is a "completely" different process then the process of doing the fingers

The gold on the fingers is only about half "or less" of all the gold in/on RAM 

The other half "or more" of the gold on/in RAM is the gold inside of the IC chip

If all you do is recover the gold from the fingers - then you will recover "less" value in gold - then the value of the RAM if you sell the "whole" RAM to a company that buys circuit boards

In other words the whole RAM as it is - is worth more then the gold on the fingers if you process the fingers only

The gold in the IC chips is VERY small gold bonding wires inside of the epoxy casing so it has its very own process to get that gold

To process the IC chips you first have to incinerate (burn) the chips to turn the epoxy to carbon &/or ash

Then you need to mill (crush) the carbon/ash to turn the carbon/ash to a fine powder (80 mesh or finer)

you then need to sift the milled carbon/ash through an 80 mesh or finer screen to get rid of larger "non" gold wires & the silicon dies inside of the chips

Then you need to pan &/or wash off as much of the carbon/ash as possible so that you end up with a concentrate of mostly gold bonding wires 

At this point if you still have bits of carbon in the concentrates you need to incinerate the concentrates to turn the carbon to ash (note - your concentrates will still heavy stuff in the concentrates like small bits of non gold wires, broken bits of the silicon dies &/or fillers/binders that were in the epoxy)

once you have the concentrate with the gold bond wire you can process the concentrates for the gold

You can ether process it with an AR leach (wet chemistry - a hydro process)

Or you can do a smelting process (a pyro process)

Kurt


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## Geo (Jan 14, 2021)

Depending on vintage and make, the chips will contain roughly twice the amount of gold the fingers yield.


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## Swissgoldrefiner (Jan 15, 2021)

nickvc said:


> Search treating chips and the processes here on the forum there is plenty of information available, some go for incineration other people simply crush to release the bonding wires.
> Most things about recovery and refining are covered here and in detail you just have to search and read, if you can’t understand something ask and you will be answered so long as you do your part and read.



To be honest i search with RAM word and i dont get any result...but, yes..i will loook more for it.
thank you


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## Swissgoldrefiner (Jan 15, 2021)

kurtak said:


> To process the IC chips you first have to incinerate (burn) the chips to turn the epoxy to carbon &/or ash
> 
> Then you need to mill (crush) the carbon/ash to turn the carbon/ash to a fine powder (80 mesh or finer)
> 
> ...



But that looks lot of work...dosent really worth for it...no? Incineration is hard to do in small lab or place...
Thank you for you help!


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## nickvc (Jan 15, 2021)

You gave in to easily, there are hundreds of posts about ram chips and chip processing in general you just have to look and read.
If you can’t be bothered to recover the gold from the chips sell the ram as is it’s worth more untouched, I can give you a contact who will buy it as is but if you semi process it then you are left with an unknown product and the price will be much less.
There are no easy refining or recoveries in e scrap in most cases, learning recovery is the hardest part refining is really very easy.


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## Shark (Jan 15, 2021)

nickvc said:


> There are no easy refining or recoveries in e scrap in most cases, learning recovery is the hardest part refining is really very easy.



Very wise words, often repeated, but seldom listened to.


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## Swissgoldrefiner (Jan 15, 2021)

nickvc said:


> There are no easy refining or recoveries in e scrap in most cases, learning recovery is the hardest part refining is really very easy.


I agree with you, will let you know how i manage it.
Thanks


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## ashir (Jan 31, 2021)

Swissgoldrefiner said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> > There are no easy refining or recoveries in e scrap in most cases, learning recovery is the hardest part refining is really very easy.
> ...


Instead of ram, search for ic chips. Almost all ic chips have same mathods , if some have diffrence then you will find during studies.. Fingers have a diffrent mathod, kurtak gives you most easy mathod to work with chips. This mathod can be used on small or large scale. You can use same mathod on all ic chips( not ceramic).
Try to learn inciniration , so you can find some easy and safe mathods of inciniration. 
One more thing... untill an authantic person not recomend you, try not to fiollow youtube.


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## Stowmaster (Feb 4, 2021)

Hello everybody! When processing the memory sticks, I got:
4 mg approximately from good finger coverage 1 board
1 mg approximately from finger flush 1 board
0.55 mg from 1 ddr1 chip 
0.47 mg on average from 1 ddr2 chip, ddr 2 chips differ significantly
0.2-0.3 mg from the board, if you rework the solder and the rest of the board without fingers and chips.
Perhaps someone the result was more, but not much.
When buying memory sticks, I look more at the number of chips rather than weight.
BR Stowmaster


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## Rreyes097 (Dec 7, 2021)

I'm also looking for a good informative thread on here that helps me with learning the process for these ic chips. I've got 772 grams of ic chips. From mostly ram. But they are all the kinds of chips that have no metal legs. So can someone point me in the right direction for learning how to process these specifically the chips without legs. Is wet ashing really that dangerous? Can I just incinerate? I really need a good detailed thread. My searching skills aren't coming up with the kind of thread I need. I'm more then happy to research and read. But I'm not finding the specific one I need.


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## Martijn (Dec 7, 2021)

I've lost all my bookmarks since the new site took over. But there is a 14 page long thread about specific results of ram ic cpu etc. Can't find it anymore.


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## MicheleM (Dec 7, 2021)

Wet ashing method is dangerous and it creates a lot of acid waste , you can incinerate. In your type of RAM chip the gold bonding wires are beneath the tiny black epoxy resin on the back. Personally I polverize the epoxy resin with an engraver machine under a sheet of transparent plastic to avoid dangerous dust diffusion in air. I use a transparent box with water to harvest the dust. It is a slower method but, less dust than other methods. No burning , no crashing, no acid.


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 7, 2021)

This thread should help: Gold inside chips (black, flatpacks - not CPU)

Dave


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## Rreyes097 (Dec 7, 2021)

I have an engraver. But I'm not really following you on the rest. But I found a thread that has all the quantity findings as well as process. It says to put in HCL to boil x3. Then incinerate. It did not specifically say to sieve. But in the other methods it was done so I'm assuming it was done in this method then AR and drop gold as normal. But when it comes to incinerating am I just literally hitting it with the torch or am I cooking it in a pan till it becomes white ash?


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## Rreyes097 (Dec 7, 2021)

Seen the thread thanks. But not sure if I'm able to pan out the ash? I think that's what I gathered from that thread. My main question since I've never done it before is incineration do I hit it with the torch or do I put it in a pan and let it cook on a burner? Does it have to be flame on the pot or pan or can it just be a hot plate?


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 7, 2021)

You should pyrolize the ICs first (bringing them to high heat without oxygen), then incinerate. It's all covered pretty well in the link I gave you.

Dave


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## Rreyes097 (Dec 7, 2021)

So pyrolizing is heating in pot or pan and incineration is direct flame? And you're suggesting to do both? Am I correct? Because I've never incinerated or pyrolized anything yet. But looks like I'm going to try it. I'm using a 200 gram test batch. I have about 800 grams total. Of just ic chips without legs. I just need a sieve. And I'll be in business.


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## MicheleM (Dec 7, 2021)

Rreyes097 said:


> I have an engraver. But I'm not really following you on the rest. But I found a thread that has all the quantity findings as well as process. It says to put in HCL to boil x3. Then incinerate. It did not specifically say to sieve. But in the other methods it was done so I'm assuming it was done in this method then AR and drop gold as normal. But when it comes to incinerating am I just literally hitting it with the torch or am I cooking it in a pan till it becomes white ash?


For that kind of RAM chips you know exactly where the gold wires are placed inside the chip so you can remove exactly that part with the engraver, without destroy the entire chip. For your amount of chips HCl and boil is not necessary: you can remove the tin balls manually (and reuse them to make stannous chloride), but again my point of view is to create less acid waste possible. If you want speed , go for HCl or CuCl2 to remove tin , pyrolyze/incinerate , panning, and then HCl + strong oxidizer to get gold in solution


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## Rreyes097 (Dec 7, 2021)

So your advice is to not boil in HCL but still use it? That or copper chloride 2. Correct? And remove the solder balls manually? How so? Is that what you use the engraver for? The pic is what I'm working with. Just these specifically.


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## MicheleM (Dec 7, 2021)

In the picture I see different kind of chips: the RAM bga that I was talking about are those with one "stripe" of black epoxy in the middle of the chip (gold is there and I remove only that stripe with the engraver, so very small amount of pulverized material from which i pan the Au), tin balls are at left and right and I remove them with a chisel or a knife, 50 grams of that RAM are more or less 250 pieces and I spent almost 45 minutes to remove the balls manually. Anyway if you have mixed BGA chips , as I saw, I suggest go with incineration method, you can still remove manually the tin balls if you have time and do not want too much acid waste


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## Martijn (Dec 7, 2021)

Found the thread i was talking about.








My results of specific types of IC chips, flatpacks and BGA


Not possible to remove all. He cut out an exposed part like I used to do too. What remains is inside epoxy about 6-8 times longer than the exposed part and cant be easily removed before incineration. OK Pat. At least the exposed bit is cut off. I had visions of the whole thing being processed...




goldrefiningforum.com





Pyrolyzing is heating without oxygen, to turn all combustible material into gas/smoke and carbon. This smoke needs to be burned properly to avoid toxic smoke into your lungs or the air. 
Incineration is done with air turning the carbon into ash which you can pan out.
Study it very good before attempting anything. And try one chip first before burning a whole batch at once. Increase the amount as you build up experience.


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## orvi (Dec 8, 2021)

wet ashing works, but it is just very very dangerous process. hot sulfuric acid do bad, very bad things to anything what is holding water. like your skin, eyes, face etc...  you end up with few liters of acidic organic/carbon sludge. many underestimates the hazards of this waste and directly pour it down the drain. organics could be very harmful to you and the enviroment, so to NOT CREATE TOXIC WASTE is the best way how one could go.
and incineration could be done properly in manner, that only carbon dioxide and water vapour goes to the enviroment. no smoke, no fumes, no smell  you need high temperatures, plenty of oxygen and plenty of time for the fumes to burn properly.
two stage furnance with afterburner and air support is advisable. you could go also for the pyrolysis methods. from point of simplicity, burning the stuff directly in the flame with plenty of air supported win. 
you should try small sample of the chips (say 50 g) in the setup you elaborate, to see if it is working or not. 

also, be aware that old stuff could contain toxic metals like cadmium or beryllium. cadmium oxide is volatile at the incineration temperatures, beryllium dust could be present. this isnt fun, it could easily kill you, besides of contaminating whole area with cadmium or beryllium ashes. modern electronics still contain lead. lead oxide also vaporizes, altough not that badly as CdO.
i also have a batch of very old IC chips, many from 70ties, 80s... very good gold content  but i still dont have the courage and equipment needed to do it safely and properly. searching for some indirect methods, which dont involve burning/heating the stuff. grinding/leaching, grinding/sluicing etc. 
anyway, with modern stuff, i will go directly to incineration without any doubt.
be safe


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## Geo (Dec 8, 2021)

Rreyes097 said:


> So your advice is to not boil in HCL but still use it? That or copper chloride 2. Correct? And remove the solder balls manually? How so? Is that what you use the engraver for? The pic is what I'm working with. Just these specifically.


BGA ram chips needs only be incinerated, milled, (sluice, gold wheel, blue bowl) gravity separation and leaching in AR. No real base metal to speak of.


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## Rreyes097 (Dec 9, 2021)

I don't know what gold wheel and blue bowl is. And it needs all that?


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## MicheleM (Dec 9, 2021)

Rreyes097 said:


> I don't know what gold wheel and blue bowl is. And it needs all that?


You have to separate gold from lighter ashes, there are different "instruments" that (almost all based on gravity separation) can do the job, try to use the search function


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## Martijn (Dec 9, 2021)

Gravity separation of bonding wires in water. Add a touch of dish soap to the water just to break surface tension, (carefull not to make soap bubbles) or you'll be floating wires out of the sluice/blue bowl/gold wheel/ pan.


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## swaminair (Aug 3, 2022)

Great stuff by forum members.Experience speaks.Thanks a lot.


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## netgeek3 (Aug 4, 2022)

My $.02 worth:

We process tons of memory modules and the folks here who have said there's more gold in the chips are definitely right. The ratios vary based on memory type (IC vs SDRAM vs DDR, etc), but without a doubt, you are losing a great deal of the value by processing only the fingers. It does take work to process the chips (less for BGAs) but it is well worth it, especially if you start to put a fair amount of them together. Separate your different RAM types and you will simplify your work. Incineration/pulverization/gravity separation/chemical processing - that's the ticket. Pyrolization prior to incineration will help ensure a more thorough conversion of the epoxy to ash, but that's up to you.


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