# Is this worth 350 Euro?



## Slochteren




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## jason_recliner

No.

Edit: Actually I didn't realise the Euro had dropped against USD or AUD so far. But at ~1100 Euro/oz, you still need to recover 10 grams to break even. Don't forget your time and chemicals.
In my opinion, there is enough e-scrap around for free (or near free) that you don't need to shell out such big bucks for it.


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## shmandi

It is hard to tell as you didn't post weight and what type processors are there.
But my guess would be, that is not worth 350€, maybe 250.


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## Slochteren

These foto's is al i have, wenn i only count the processors on the right side 106 pieces and calculate with an average of .15 gram (http://www.ozcopper.com/computer-cpu-gold-yields/ 
106*.15=15,90 gr gold a 30 euro p. gram is 477 euro. 
Never done processors, also don't knbow if u get that amount of gold out of it.


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## shmandi

If there are any AMD Athlon or Sempron in batch, your average is much lower than 0.15g. It would be easier to tell if processors were flipped over.

Edit: Some of yields on link you posted are overestimated.


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## sokon

Much better data about yield is this link: http://www.goldextractionprocess.com/material/


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## goldsilverpro

sokon said:


> Much better data about yield is this link: http://www.goldextractionprocess.com/material/


I think the figures given there are based on one kilogram of material.

There are lots of lists on the internet concerning various CPU values and most of them give different numbers (many are copy cats). So, who do you trust? I, personally, don't know these values but, if I suddenly had a need for them, I would probably accept Sam's numbers above all others - the reason being that I trust Sam's abilities.


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## sokon

Sam's list is also very good but there are a small number of processors in his list.


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## Slochteren

Sam's list show for the IBM 0.45-0.55 gr per unit. thats not bad..
I asked the seller for a picture off the other side off those on the right, will be probaly low yield processors... or he thinks only the pins count.


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## patnor1011

Your link show Pentium Pro yield 1g. That is when I stopped reading any further. Any list that list PPro at this rate is a joke.


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## shmandi

Other than Pentium Pro (and a couple more) seems more realistic.


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## patnor1011

shmandi said:


> Other than Pentium Pro (and a couple more) seems more realistic.



That is exactly it. How can newbie know which are and which are not more realistic. List is flawed and good for nothing.


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## shmandi

You are right. That is why it is always good to cross-compare more sources, lists.


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## dannlee

Linking up '_Sam's List_' was right on time here, a yield returned for me had made me curious...

'_Sam's List_' describes 'Intel Pentium/MMX no gold plates: Au yield per unit: 0.072 Gram

I returned 0.56g on eight for an even 0.07g each, and battled storm clouds of tungsten with more filtering and rinses than I wanted to count to achieve that. My stock pot & used filter jar will make a nice chore someday soon.

Prior to this thread a common internet list I'd viewed describes "Intel Pentium & MMX (ceramic) 0.12g /each"

Just one teeny vote of confidence on Sam's Numbers from me.


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## goldsilverpro

Knowing Sam's proven abilities, his figures are surely the result of his own recoveries and/or assays. That's good enough for me. 

This is a field where misinformation can be very costly, mainly in terms of safety and profitability. Our forum contains about 98% of all the PM scrap information on the entire internet. If you want truth, the GRF is where you start. Any wrong statements on GRF (and there are many!) are promptly corrected on the same thread by long-term (usually) members. It's always best to read the whole thread and then read other threads on the same subject. The other 2% on the internet is a pig in a poke, with very few exceptions. My rule is to examine with critical eyes any info that comes from strangers. If I find an important error(s), I usually dismiss all the info as being too questionable to rely upon. 

After 8+ years on the forum, one learns who's info is trustworthy and who's is not. I've read Sam's posts, watched his excellent videos, and spent time on his website. Until proven otherwise, I totally trust Sam's list and only Sam's list.

In about 2000, I knew a guy in Houston that refined gold plated CPU's in aqua regia, on a fairly large scale in 30 gallon tanks. Good CPUs were everywhere back then. One day, he showed me about 50-100 photos, each showing a different CPU with the part#/name and values written on the back. He was getting the assays done by a lab in CA at $100 a pop. I knew the lab and had always heard good things about it. I asked if I could copy the names and values, but he said no.


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## Slochteren

Thx for the info, would have been an interesting list..
I didn't recieve a picture from the other side off those cpu's also i will let it be....


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## Anonymous

I ran a Christmas competition on here and I've posted up hard yield data. Some may credit my data, others may not but at least it's up there.

You might recover your money at 350 euros to be fair but there's not a margin in it of any note. Yield aside, it's not worth it for the time and effort taken to process it, but as a learning experience you wouldn't go far wrong because it would give you enough real gold to work with.

Edit: Here's the link. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=21663

Sam's one of the few people on here who have posted what they have done and been honest about yields, I have a lot of time for his data, as does Chris above. 

Regards

Jon


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## Ahmed Lotfy

If you talk about the purchasing price as scrap , i think it is a littel bit more expensive than the cost here in Egypt 

if you talk about the value of gold content 

you have arround 110 Ceramic CPU with estimated gold content ( 110 * 0.15 ) = 16.5 grams = neary 500 Euros + the gold in the other balck fiber CPU + little amount in the green fiber CPUs + RAMs + VEGA cards 

so Ithink you can refine gold with value of 550 : 650 Euros ( If greater numer of Ceramic CPUs have more gold cntent you would have more ) 

My estimation based on Gold price 30 Euros/ Gram


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## patnor1011

Ahmed Lotfy said:


> If you talk about the purchasing price as scrap , i think it is a littel bit more expensive than the cost here in Egypt
> 
> if you talk about the value of gold content
> 
> you have arround 110 Ceramic CPU with estimated gold content ( 110 * 0.15 ) = 16.5 grams = neary 500 Euros + the gold in the other balck fiber CPU + little amount in the green fiber CPUs + RAMs + VEGA cards
> 
> so Ithink you can refine gold with value of 550 : 650 Euros ( If greater numer of Ceramic CPUs have more gold cntent you would have more )
> 
> My estimation based on Gold price 30 Euros/ Gram



Please read whole of this thread again. Only some can have that number you estimated and most will not get even close to that.
What made you to pick 0.15 estimate for all of them?


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## Ahmed Lotfy

[/quote]

Please read whole of this thread again. Only some can have that number you estimated and most will not get even close to that.
What made you to pick 0.15 estimate for all of them?[/quote]


OK

i dont know what exactly the brands of CPUs becouse the most ie rear view , but thay have some of AMD K6 and the most is more higer value 

there is many sheets and tables and youtubes for estimations of specific kinds of ceramic CPUs 

according to the minimum avarage results from all those sources i can estimita avarage yield of those CPUs as 0.15 gram / CPU as minimum if not more 

for Example the Intel pentium CPU some sources says it have 0.49 gram / CPU not only 0.15 

but 

for my personal experiance 

i have read that green fiber CPUs have less than 0.05 grams per CPU , i found it is only arround 0.01 grams / cpu , i dont know if plugging and unplugging of cpus affect on yields becouse of the fraction or not ?!! , and also there is nice valu in monolitic capicitors on thos CPUs , and in the part of Copper as heat sinck 
plus the silicon dye ant that may made the total value close to the 0.05 grams gold ( just the grran fibers CPUs )

if you have another information please advice


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## g_axelsson

Ahmed Lotfy said:


> there is many sheets and tables and youtubes for estimations of specific kinds of ceramic CPUs
> 
> according to the minimum avarage results from all those sources i can estimita avarage yield of those CPUs as 0.15 gram / CPU as minimum if not more
> 
> for Example the Intel pentium CPU some sources says it have 0.49 gram / CPU not only 0.15
> 
> but
> 
> for my personal experiance
> 
> i have read that green fiber CPUs have less than 0.05 grams per CPU , i found it is only arround 0.01 grams / cpu , i dont know if plugging and unplugging of cpus affect on yields becouse of the fraction or not ?!! , and also there is nice valu in monolitic capicitors on thos CPUs, and in the part of Copper as heat sinck
> plus the silicon dye ant that may made the total value close to the 0.05 grams gold ( just the grran fibers CPUs )
> 
> if you have another information please advice


I suggest that you do your searches for yield numbers here on the forum and not on youtube, those numbers are only a dream.

You have noticed it yourself, there is very little wear of the surface of cpu pins. Especially with the ZIF sockets used for everything from 486 and onward with pins. You probably got what was there to get.

Göran


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## Ahmed Lotfy

g_axelsson said:


> Ahmed Lotfy said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is many sheets and tables and youtubes for estimations of specific kinds of ceramic CPUs
> 
> according to the minimum avarage results from all those sources i can estimita avarage yield of those CPUs as 0.15 gram / CPU as minimum if not more
> 
> for Example the Intel pentium CPU some sources says it have 0.49 gram / CPU not only 0.15
> 
> but
> 
> for my personal experiance
> 
> i have read that green fiber CPUs have less than 0.05 grams per CPU , i found it is only arround 0.01 grams / cpu , i dont know if plugging and unplugging of cpus affect on yields becouse of the fraction or not ?!! , and also there is nice valu in monolitic capicitors on thos CPUs, and in the part of Copper as heat sinck
> plus the silicon dye ant that may made the total value close to the 0.05 grams gold ( just the grran fibers CPUs )
> 
> if you have another information please advice
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest that you do your searches for yield numbers here on the forum and not on youtube, those numbers are only a dream.
> 
> You have noticed it yourself, there is very little wear of the surface of cpu pins. Especially with the ZIF sockets used for everything from 486 and onward with pins. You probably got what was there to get.
> 
> Göran
Click to expand...


But please note if the fraction affect on the very thin plated layer in the green fibers CPUs , the effect of this fraction on the heavy platted thick ;ayer in the ceramic CPUs well be neglectable 

please also consider the pure gold wires inside the ceramic CPU not only the pins


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## patnor1011

Ahmed Lotfy said:


> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahmed Lotfy said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is many sheets and tables and youtubes for estimations of specific kinds of ceramic CPUs
> 
> according to the minimum avarage results from all those sources i can estimita avarage yield of those CPUs as 0.15 gram / CPU as minimum if not more
> 
> for Example the Intel pentium CPU some sources says it have 0.49 gram / CPU not only 0.15
> 
> but
> 
> for my personal experiance
> 
> i have read that green fiber CPUs have less than 0.05 grams per CPU , i found it is only arround 0.01 grams / cpu , i dont know if plugging and unplugging of cpus affect on yields becouse of the fraction or not ?!! , and also there is nice valu in monolitic capicitors on thos CPUs, and in the part of Copper as heat sinck
> plus the silicon dye ant that may made the total value close to the 0.05 grams gold ( just the grran fibers CPUs )
> 
> if you have another information please advice
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest that you do your searches for yield numbers here on the forum and not on youtube, those numbers are only a dream.
> 
> You have noticed it yourself, there is very little wear of the surface of cpu pins. Especially with the ZIF sockets used for everything from 486 and onward with pins. You probably got what was there to get.
> 
> Göran
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But please note if the fraction affect on the very thin plated layer in the green fibers CPUs , the effect of this fraction on the heavy platted thick ;ayer in the ceramic CPUs well be neglectable
> 
> please also consider the pure gold wires inside the ceramic CPU not only the pins
Click to expand...


*There are no pure gold wires in ceramic CPU.* Nobody on this forum ever seen single one. The only gold bonding wires in CPU are in black fiber CPU in a black substrate in a center of a CPU. Some old green slotted CPU with green square IC mounted in center do have similar substrate with bonding wires. I have never seen any bonding wires in ceramic CPU and never heard of that being true. 

This again show that too much of youtube and internet surfing will hurt you, not only financially.

This thread seems like Déjà vu. I asked you to read whole thread again. OP too came with wild numbers from internet, he was pointed to more correct numbers and reported yields on forum and whole matter quietly slipped away. Now you came in, somehow found this old thread and instead of reading though you did exactly the same - using obscure lists with wild numbers you want to believe in even that you yourself got 1/5th of what you found on these lists. 
Most of the lists floating around were created by people who are selling cpu on ebay. Grossly inflated and many times just guessed numbers.
Real numbers come hard. To get real numbers cost money, it is very hard to make consistent batches and repeated experiments to fine tune this knowledge. But here you can get real numbers by combing through many hundreds and thousands of posts and make personal notes. It also cost money - time is money.


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## Ahmed Lotfy

patnor1011 said:


> Ahmed Lotfy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahmed Lotfy said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is many sheets and tables and youtubes for estimations of specific kinds of ceramic CPUs
> 
> according to the minimum avarage results from all those sources i can estimita avarage yield of those CPUs as 0.15 gram / CPU as minimum if not more
> 
> for Example the Intel pentium CPU some sources says it have 0.49 gram / CPU not only 0.15
> 
> but
> 
> for my personal experiance
> 
> i have read that green fiber CPUs have less than 0.05 grams per CPU , i found it is only arround 0.01 grams / cpu , i dont know if plugging and unplugging of cpus affect on yields becouse of the fraction or not ?!! , and also there is nice valu in monolitic capicitors on thos CPUs, and in the part of Copper as heat sinck
> plus the silicon dye ant that may made the total value close to the 0.05 grams gold ( just the grran fibers CPUs )
> 
> if you have another information please advice
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest that you do your searches for yield numbers here on the forum and not on youtube, those numbers are only a dream.
> 
> You have noticed it yourself, there is very little wear of the surface of cpu pins. Especially with the ZIF sockets used for everything from 486 and onward with pins. You probably got what was there to get.
> 
> Göran
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But please note if the fraction affect on the very thin plated layer in the green fibers CPUs , the effect of this fraction on the heavy platted thick ;ayer in the ceramic CPUs well be neglectable
> 
> please also consider the pure gold wires inside the ceramic CPU not only the pins
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *There are no pure gold wires in ceramic CPU.* Nobody on this forum ever seen single one. The only gold bonding wires in CPU are in black fiber CPU in a black substrate in a center of a CPU. Some old green slotted CPU with green square IC mounted in center do have similar substrate with bonding wires. I have never seen any bonding wires in ceramic CPU and never heard of that being true.
> 
> This again show that too much of youtube and internet surfing will hurt you, not only financially.
Click to expand...

please have a look 

this is old laptop CPU 

what is the metal which those wires made off ? the total weight of those wires may be less than 0.25 gram

in the ceramic cpu under the golden platted plate in the middle of the lower side of cpu you well see shorter wires arround the silicon Dye also very thin wires 

it weems to be gold 

is it something else ? so which metal it is ?


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## Ahmed Lotfy

http://goldrecovery.us/images/MMX_wires.jpg

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=59898#p59898


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## patnor1011

Everyone here process ceramic CPU by breaking it in several parts. CPU which do contain black epoxy are easily identified and whoever spend some time on forum knows this epoxy should be processed further. But this is no excuse to inflate potential yield because gold from this epoxy is actually reported in a total yield. By saying this I mean that you cant simply say that "0.7g reported yield will be 0.15 because of wires inside".


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## modtheworld44

patnor1011 said:


> *There are no pure gold wires in ceramic CPU.* Nobody on this forum ever seen single one. The only gold bonding wires in CPU are in black fiber CPU in a black substrate in a center of a CPU. Some old green slotted CPU with green square IC mounted in center do have similar substrate with bonding wires. I have never seen any bonding wires in ceramic CPU and never heard of that being true.




patnor1011


I have been milling this over in my mind since you first posted this response and was wondering if you could better clarify the part I highlighted in deep blue.

What I mean, is are you saying you have never seen any ceramic CPU's with PURE gold bonding wires(which connect from substrate to silicon die)?

I don't mean any disrespect in asking you this question,I'm just confused and stumped at your response.
Thank you in advance if you are willing to clarify this for me.



p.s I hope I got the quotes to work right,I only wanted the above quoted.



modtheworld44


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## Grelko

patnor1011 said:


> I have never seen any bonding wires in ceramic CPU and never heard of that being true.



I've always wondered about this. If there aren't any bonding wires, then how does the electric get from the pins on the bottom, to the IC on top? It would just be completely ceramic between the two sections. (I never broke any apart)


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## patnor1011

As far as I understand it connection is made by some printed paste or something like that. Not with gold bonding wires.


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## Grelko

patnor1011 said:


> As far as I understand it connection is made by some printed paste or something like that. Not with gold bonding wires.



Interesting. I'll have to find more information about this later, thank you.


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## Shark

I think it was Lou who stated the bonding wires in ceramic cpu's were molybdenum. Very old post and I didn't book mark it as I was looking into something different.


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## Barren Realms 007

I think all of you need to go back to processing 101 of ceramic CPU's and do some searching and reading. :mrgreen:


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## Shark

Done.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=+processing+101+of+ceramic+CPU%27s+


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## modtheworld44

Shark said:


> Done.
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=+processing+101+of+ceramic+CPU%27s+




I really needed that,Thank You So very much LMAO :mrgreen: :lol: 



modtheworld44


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## g_axelsson

A standard ceramic CPU is made of several layers of ceramics bonded together. between the layers (while the ceramics is still unfired, also called green) is screen printed conductors of molybdenum. The ceramic body is then fired and the molybdenum that is exposed is then gold plated. On the bottom or side, pins are brazed or soldered and in the cavity bond wires are used to connect landing pads on the die with the exposed gold plated conductors. For bonding wires aluminum or gold can be used.

Inside the ceramic body is the molybdenum conductors and the only gold is the exposed gold and the gold under the die.

To use gold inside the ceramic body would be problematic. Thermal expansion and contraction will break conductors over time unless it expands with the same rate as the ceramic body. Molybdenum is the solution on this problem and it is cheaper that gold.

Göran


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## goldsilverpro

The only ones I've studied are the older side-braze packages. There were 3 layers of alumina ceramic. The ceramic is made by blending alumina powder with about 5% glass powder (called glass frit). The green ceramic is fired above the melting point of the glass. The glass melts and bonds all the alumina particles together. The glass also bonds the 3 alumina layers together. The internal conductive traces are made by silk screening molybdenum-manganese paste (containing a glass frit, I think) onto the ceramic and then firing it. If I remember right, tungsten was used for traces in later years.


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## Shark

Thanks guys, that is similar to what I read, but since I only half read something that wasn't tied to my research, it only half stuck. I would love to see a video on the process of making a ceramic CPU, that would be very interesting.


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