# Need some advice on dealing with Antique dealers



## ctgresale (Dec 4, 2011)

Hello all, I want to ask everybody a question to get kinda a second opinion. I've meet an antique dealer this weekend at a friends house and to make a long story short when I had a chance to talk with her when no one was around I asked about what she did with her scrap silver that she gets when to beat up or broken to sell to her clients. I was pleasantly surprised when she immediately said that she sells it straight to the scrappers, and she wanted to know if I was, and where my place was. After discussing this for awhile she told me that she would sell me sterling silver whatever's @ 75% of that daily spot and as for her spot prices she named Kitco. 1st question is this about the going rate to buy sterling silverware at, excluding the price that people pay on EBay, ( some things look like spot + on there ) ? #2 she brought out a silver ware set to show me what kind of things she would let me buy, and she said " you know on the knives you don't count the blade just the handle, and that is just counted as 1oz ? is that about right or close enough ? And #3 and last question is my math correct with the amount of Nitrate just to have some idea over head cost since I've heard that was the more expensive part of digest the sterling to later process in a silver cell, I came up with about 1.5 gallons of 70% to digest 10lbs ? Thanks for the input. 

Thanks
Steve


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## ps2fixer (Dec 4, 2011)

A quick note, make sure your offering on actual silver content and not the whole weight. Sterling is commonly 80%, 92.5%, and 95% depending where it came from and how old it is. Also be sure to test everything to make sure it isn't plated silver. The local coin dealer (scraps gold/silver as well) has came across a lot of stuff marked 925 which was only silver plated.


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## wrecker45 (Dec 4, 2011)

the large knives have about 15 grams. the small ones are about 10 grams on average... Jim


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## element47 (Dec 5, 2011)

I have used 80% as a delivered, all-in price when buying sterling on ebay. That means if silver were $40 (just to make the math easy) then I could buy sterling for $32 an ounce and make no money. If you can buy for 75%, you should. However, whether or not you yourself chemically refine the sterling into .999 is a completely different consideration. I have thought long and hard about doing this. It has much to do with your living circumstances, how expensive chemicals are, whether you wish to invest in the ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED safety gear, whether you have kids around, and several other factors. I came to the conclusion that I could not justify chemically refining, even though I have hundreds of pounds of sterling forks. Your mileage may vary. I believe that if you are paying 75-80% of spot for sterling and then chemically processing and refining it, you will make zero or less unless and until you can produce the super nice looking bars that kadriver does (search for some of his posts) and that takes rigid adherence to procedure and a very disciplined approach. I am sure that kadriver gets a lot of satisfaction out of his efforts and I would too if I made such pretty bars. But it is only because he seems to be able to sell them for significantly over spot that he makes money. 

Every time you touch this stuff, you encounter relentless, vicious frictions that can not be avoided. when you buy a fork on ebay, unless you happen to know that that particular pattern weighs so many grams, you take the risk that that particular 7-1/4" fork may be lighter than the last one you bought. Only a few ebay sellers list the weights of their offerings, and once they do, everybody knows those weights, and all it takes is one buyer who will pay a teeny teeny bit more than you. You have to pay incoming freight, and insurance, if you so choose. 

Let me just state it this way: * If you are interested in gathering bullion, there is almost nothing you can do that is more dumb than overpaying for sterling silver forks*. And the reason is because it is such a disfavored form. You will find the ebay sterling market intensely, intensely competitive. It was a different story when silver was $9 and $11 and $13 and $15, and almost all the sterling I bot on ebay was when the price was in the teens. I accumulated many hundreds of pounds of it. To buy it today you will find yourself looking at dozens and dozens of auctions and maybe, just maybe, winning one or two.

If your time is worth anything, my opinion is you are much better off buying secondary name-brand yet generic silver bars when they are on sale for $1 an ounce over spot. Like Amark or Sunshine or SilverTowne. If you do that, you have assayed .999 material right now and somebody else has the responsibility of delivering it. That's just my opinion. I would be thrilled to be able to refine my sterling silver but the math simply does not work out, and the effort does not take into account the hazardous materials and toxics generated. I admire the people who do this. It takes serious skill and focus and patience.


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## Harold_V (Dec 9, 2011)

ps2fixer said:


> Sterling is commonly 80%, 92.5%, and 95% depending where it came from and how old it is.


That isn't correct. Sterling is never (technically) anything but 92.5% (±). That's what sterling means in the scheme of things. Any other alloy is known by other terms. 90%, for example is referenced as coin. I am unaware of any 95% silver, but encountered silver flatware marked as low as 720 (from one of the Scandinavian countries). Perfectly legal, just not sterling. 

What you said about various alloys is correct in that you can make reference to them as solid silver, or as silver flatware. To call anything but Sterling (92.5% silver) sterling is not being truthful. 



> Also be sure to test everything to make sure it isn't plated silver. The local coin dealer (scraps gold/silver as well) has came across a lot of stuff marked 925 which was only silver plated.


It's worse than that----I encountered several items made in Mexico that are marked sterling that have no silver content at all. They are German silver, or nickel silver. 

Harold


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## mdghamon (Feb 16, 2012)

Harold, 95% silver was the old British standard. It is still used on rare ocasions. Michael


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## nickvc (Feb 17, 2012)

To be totally accurate its called Brittania silver and it assays at 95.84%.


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## Chiptech81 (Feb 17, 2012)

Be careful when buying antique silverware, the handles may appear solid but sometimes they are not. The actual silver can be hollow and filled.


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## Harold_V (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks to both of you (mdghamon and nickvc). I learned something new today!
I can honestly say, I never encountered that designation in all my years of refining. 

Harold


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## mdghamon (Feb 17, 2012)

Harold, I found some britannia standard silver when stationed in Scotland back in 78. Some really nice pieces were produced back in the late 1800's. Not used very often now but the Royal assay offices maintain it as one of their finer standards.


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## SuperSLO (Feb 19, 2012)

I just thought I'd chime in on buying sterling from antique dealers, on Ebay, or elsewhere. I don't find much with dealers, but I offer .75/gram (current spot 33.28) to local finds. However, everyone thinks if they have a piece of sterling, or a set of flatware that they should get spot price without even doing the math thing X .925. I get lucky every once in a while, like the Gorham bowl I bought at a yard sale for $10.00 which weighed in at 18ozt. (Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while) I buy on Ebay to feed the silver cell, and generally stick to the 'plates and chargers' section. I line up some potentially below market value auctions and can usually land some weight (delivered to my door) at 90% of spot after the .925 calcs. Wrecker45 was very accurate estimating the knives, which is why I don't mess with flatware or candlestick holders....too much work just to get the stock to the crucible.
Sure, I could buy pure silver rounds and bars, but what fun is that?!?! All my calculations = break even after I polish the bars I make. Now if silver spikes, of course there's potential for profit, but if profit were my main goal, I'd refine crude oil!....Bottom line, for me, it's a hobby that doesn't cost much...... :lol:


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## wrecker45 (Feb 19, 2012)

i bought antique cast iron chocolate mold. it has 8 molds of teddy bears in it. i melt and pour my sterling in them, and end up with a bear that is just over a lb. :mrgreen: Jim


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## joem (Mar 1, 2012)

wrecker45 said:


> i bought antique cast iron chocolate mold. it has 8 molds of teddy bears in it. i melt and pour my sterling in them, and end up with a bear that is just over a lb. :mrgreen: Jim


 Now that's cool


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## Westerngs (Mar 1, 2012)

There is sterling silver sold today in the US that is greater than 92.5% silver. I know of 93.5%, 95% and 97%. The first two are used mainly in jewelry and the the last is used as a reflective coating in dvd manufacture.


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## Harold_V (Mar 2, 2012)

Westerngs said:


> There is sterling silver sold today in the US that is greater than 92.5% silver. I know of 93.5%, 95% and 97%. The first two are used mainly in jewelry and the the last is used as a reflective coating in dvd manufacture.


I don't have any issues with the idea that there's silver of different concentrations being sold, but I do take issue with the use of the word *sterling* to represent them. Sterling, by its definition, is an alloy of silver and, generally, copper, 92.5% silver, 7.5% copper. Alter the percentages and the alloy is no longer sterling. They might be represented as solid silver, but not sterling silver, nor would I expect them to use that terminology. Why would any manufacturer include more silver than would be required by law? Historically, if anythng, they've under alloyed, not over alloyed. 

Harold


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## nickvc (Mar 2, 2012)

When I was at JM we sold many forms of karat alloys, platinum and silver and due to the strict hallmarking rules here in the UK everything had to be exactly what it was sold as ie. 14k would be 585, 18k would be 750 and silver 925, there were and still are exceptions such as some hardenable alloys which had higher silver content and the solders which were all under 925 for the silver and always under for 18k white and 22k gold and platinum. 
Those who melt and refine silver will be aware of the fact that it rarely assays at 925 and I'm sure it's the silver solder that reduces the fineness down to around the 915/920 that you usually get.
The same can and does apply to 18k white, 20k plus yellow alloys and platinum it's not going to be plum if it's had much solder used on it, while the slight deficit makes little difference if you have decent margins those buying on very tight margins can take a hiding buying without a melt and assay.


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