# New Gold Bar 4.73 Troy OZ plus SILVER BARS



## kadriver (Oct 5, 2011)

I just got done with all this metal tonight.

The gold bar will be on the way to the refiner tomorrow.

The silver bars are listed on Ebay under user: bafelous

Do a search for "hand poured silver bars" to see them.

Starting bid is 99 cents each.

Thanks for looking

kadriver


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## eeTHr (Oct 6, 2011)

Very good looking pours. Beautiful.


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## micronationcreation (Oct 6, 2011)

Excellent work, kudos to you.


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 6, 2011)

I've told you this before - you do make gorgeous bars! Of course, you already know that. One question: how did you make the silver bars weigh exactly 5 oz? Pour them overweight and do a lot of grinding, polishing, and weighing? If so, why not just polish them and then stamp the exact weight, like the gold one?

Have you seen this guy's stuff? Pretty nice but I like yours better.

http://www.realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8464


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## kadriver (Oct 6, 2011)

GSP:

These bars are striking to look at when they come out of the mold.

I try not to handle them so that the mirror finish remains when the customer gets them.

So I do not grind or remove any metal at all. Here is what I do:

I use a small 2 fluid ounce plastic cups purchased at the Dollar General or Walmart.

I place a plastic cup on the scale and tare to zero.

Then I add the pure silver crystals to the cup and repeat this with all the silver. I end up with 3 or 4 plastic cups with 5.050 to 5.060 troy ounces in each cup.

Having all the silver pre-weighed allows me to keep my torch going once I start melting. 

I always add about .050 to .060 ozt EXTRA - so each plastic cup contains 5.050 ozt to 5.060 ozt silver crystals.

The result is this - all my bars are over weight by .025 to .050 ozt each.

I mark them as 5 Troy OZ, but they are just a little over.

I could trim the extra off the bottom, but I figure my customers like getting a little extra - and the price they pay reflects this.

I usually get from 5% to 10% over spot for my bars.

Occasionally I will get a bar that is right at 5.000 Troy ounces, but not very often.

Also, the bars I sell on Ebay sometimes get right at spot or a little less, but not very often. I always give the actual weight in the Ebay listing.

The silver that is lost in the process above usually condenses as small beads on the cooler rim of the melting dish and can be recovered after i am done pouring the bars.

I think some of the silver actually goes up in smoke literally during the melting process - but I don't know if this is actually true or not.

I hope this explains why I mark my silver bars at exactly 5 troy ounces (even though they are just a little over).

The reason I put the exact weight on the GOLD bar is to let the refiner know that I know exactly how much the bars weighs to avoid confussion for settlement.

I do not sell my gold bars on ebay due to Ebay & Paypal fees they charge.

Thanks for your interest.

kadriver


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## goldenchild (Oct 6, 2011)

Those are the nicest bars poured by a member on the forum in my opinion. Would you ever make a video of how you do it? I can never get mine to look that nice. I also thought you were polishing them. One thought on the weight descrepancies. Maybe the extra weight is just air trapped in the sponge.


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## kadriver (Oct 6, 2011)

I will make a video on how I pour these bars and post it on the forum.

I use a MAP torch to preheat the mold before I pour the first bar.

I melt the silver crystals with my oxy/accet torch while the MAP torch heats the graphite mold.

When the meltal in the melt dish is nearly molten and almost ready to pour, I remove the MAP torch from the graphite mold - but I leave it lit and standing by.

When the silver is completely molten and ready to pour about 30 or 40 seconds later, I quickly turn off the oxy/accet torch, set it down and then grap the already lit MAP torch. Takes less than 2 or 3 seconds.

I direct the MAP flame on the molten metal in the melt dish and immediately pour the metal into the preheated graphite mold - keeping the MAP torch on the metal as I pour.

I play flame over the molten silver in the mold until it hardens and turn off the MAP torch.

The reason I switch torches is two fold:

1) I was getting O2 absorbtion into the silver from the oxy/accet torch and it would bubble out of the molten silver once in the mold. This made really ugly looking bars!
2) The MAP flame is gentle on the surface of the molten silver while it is in the mold and it produces beautiful little ripples like when a pebble is thrown into a smooth pond.

I leave freshly poured hot bar in the mold and dump the next plastic cup of silver crystals into the hot melting dish.

Then I re-light my oxy/accet torch and proceed to melt the next 5 ounces of silver crystals.

Just before I have the silver in the dish ready to pour, I quickly dump the hot bar out of the mold into a metal pot of cold tap water, set the mold back on the fire brick, ignite the MAP torch (with one hand) all the while keeping the oxy/accet torch on the molten silver in the dish.

I then qucikly turn off the oxy/accet torch and set it down and grab the already lit MAP torch and direct the MAP flame on the molten metal in the dish while I pour it into the hot mold.

I have found this is the most efficient way to do this and it produces the best looking bars.

I do not polished these bars at all. They appear exactly as they do when I get them out of the mold. I dump them into a bucket of cold water right out of the mold.

I pat them dry with a clean cotton t-shirt. I found that rubbing them with anything produces tiny scratches on the surface of the metal that can be seen if held in the light just right.

They sure do look good - almost like a freshly minted proof coin, but they look even better in hand. The photo does not do justice.

Thank you for your input.

kadriver


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm very impressed. They sure look better than any open faced bars I ever poured. Simple but easy to understand why it works. Everything seems easy when you know the tricks. I really appreciate you divulging your secrets.


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## goldenchild (Oct 7, 2011)

I also thank you for sharing. So it seems that persistant heat is the key. While reading your description I heard the 1812 overature in my head :lol: Cant wait to see the vid.


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## stihl88 (Oct 7, 2011)

Perfect as usual!

I think you need to change your avatar to one of these bars Kadriver


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 7, 2011)

goldenchild said:


> I also thank you for sharing. So it seems that persistant heat is the key. While reading your description I heard the 1812 overature in my head :lol: Cant wait to see the vid.



It seems to me that the secret is in the switching of the torches. I think he is using the extreme heat of the oxy/acet to initially melt the silver and then switches to the MAPP, which maintains the melt and provides a reducing atmosphere. As I understand it, MAPP provides a lot of hydrogen.


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## samuel-a (Oct 7, 2011)

It is very hard to maintain high and even temp' throughout the metal pool with a torch, even Oxy/fuel torch.

I have nothing to say about the OP's bars beside that they are absolutely gorgeous indeed.  


Though, The best looking bars are those that freeze slowly and evenly from the bottom up.
To do that, the metal pool should be approx 150-250C+ above it's melting point on pouring, and that should include the walls of the crucible at same temp' inside out (red hot). 
Not to say it can't be done with a torch, only... with a furnace it is much more convenient IMHO.
Also, With a furnace it is easy to maintain a reducing environment which of special importance in the case of fine silver.

In this case (furnace melt), the metal could be poured successfully into the hot mold while the MAPP/propane/butan flame is already set and blazing ontop of the mold, this way, the metal pool will take a few seconds to start freezing and get the desirable smooth surface.

I have a similar setup to that i have described above, though i'm not pouring pure metals, i'm gaining expirience in the meanwhile, pouring Doré for my costumers or silver anodes for my cell.
it takes time to get the hang of it, but the results are awesome.


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## goldenchild (Oct 8, 2011)

Does anyone smooth out their bars by "surface melting"? By that I mean holding a torch on its surface just until it starts to melt and taking the heat away. I've done this a few times.


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## Geo (Oct 8, 2011)

actually that's a known technique called "fire polishing" its used at the US mints. of coarse it only works on metals of a certain purity. fire polishing can give gold a mirror like surface but for it to truly be effective the mold needs to be at or above the melting point of the metal or you can get layering on the sides of the bar and ruin the finish on the sides.


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## kadriver (Oct 8, 2011)

I have used this method to "fire polish" the surface and have gotten good results.

Here is a video of me pouring a 3 troy ounce gold bar back in December 2010.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpAIvk_GDuI

Notice the way the flame is slowly removed from the metal as it hardens.

The bar came out of the mold with a mirror finish with only two small frosty spots from contamination in the gold powder. This is a single refining.

If I had refined it a second time, I think even those frosty spots would have been removed.

Thanks for looking.

kadriver


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## kadriver (Oct 8, 2011)

Actually I just realized that goldenchild was asking a different question.

I have placed silver bars in a dish, then got just the surface of the bar molten and backed the heat away before the whole bar melted.

This produced a smooth surface and if I remember correctly, the surface had no ripples in it, just smooth.

But I prefer the slight ripples with the smoothly rounded edges like the bars pictured at the top of this post.

kadriver


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 8, 2011)

I like the ripples also.


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## jrodgers221 (Oct 15, 2011)

Those are pretty enough for signing.


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## joem (Oct 19, 2011)

Can you pst a video on the Lye and sugar method?


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