# copper from cell phone boards



## kjavanb123 (Apr 23, 2017)

All,

I depopualted a batch of cellphone boards, weighed 955 grams, after depopulation they weighed 220 grams, I used my test pyrolysis ubit then mix the burned boards with equal part soda ash and borax, melt it and got 58.9 grams of copper.



Based on above, copper content in form of laminated in depopulated cellphone board is 26.77%.

I am trying to compile a list of copper content of different type of boards that I already depopulated and smelted.

Using a good pyrolysis, and a simple furnace, I am going to recover copper from the bare boards.

Regards
Kj


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## 4metals (Apr 23, 2017)

Your copper is not pure as you have not refined it in any way. Do you intend to process this copper as an anode material in a copper cell to recover any PM's in the material? Do you have an XRF result of the copper shown indicating other metals present?


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## kjavanb123 (Apr 23, 2017)

4metals,

I recovered this copper just to see how much copper is in depopulated cellphone boards.

I dont think it contains any PMs, as I already leached the gold plating on boards using cyanide and smelt the components.

Unless some other metals are used in copper laminated in fiberglass of boards, I believe it should contain only copper.

I will try to test it tommorow. Not intended to refine this as scrap yards pay good money as copper 1.

Thanks and regards
Kj


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## kernels (Apr 23, 2017)

Hi KJ, I'm quite enjoying your threads, you seem to be doing things differently from most. In your original post, do you mean that you used 220g of Borax and 220g of Soda Ash with the 220g of boards, or did they weigh less after pyrolization ?

Did you just use the same weight of each chemical as the weight of the pyrolized boards ?


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## kjavanb123 (Apr 23, 2017)

Kernels,

Thanks for your words, sorry if my post confused you.

I used a regular mixer, to mill the pyrolyzed cellphone boards which were depopulated.

I then dump all the materials into a beaker it filled up till 250 ml mark, I added 1 part soda ash and 1 part borax so volume wise it matched 250 ml in the same beaker.

So at the end 250 ml of ash on top of it 250 ml of mixed soda ash and borax.

Mix the whole thing again in mixer, feed it to this crucible, as my last graphit crucible broke after 4 melts, despite the fact I pre heated it always.



Next batch will be mix of graphic, internet sound etc card boards.


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## patnor1011 (Apr 23, 2017)

There will be whole lot of some other metals mixed in it. Copper will be dominant of course but you will find also tin, nickel and some very small quantities of some other metals.

http://www.pjoes.com/pdf/23.6/Pol.J.Environ.Stud.Vol.23.No.6.2365-2369.pdf

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/18491/InTech-Recycling_of_printed_circuit_boards.pdf

http://services.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2014/05/ULE_CellPhone_White_Paper_V2.pdf


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## kernels (Apr 23, 2017)

Excellent, thanks for answering the question. Let us know how you go, very interesting stuff.


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## 4metals (Apr 23, 2017)

The actual list of metals contained in typical cell phone boards is quite large. 

I would think smelting with O2 sparging will get rid of most metals by oxidizing them into the slags with the exception of the copper the gold and the silver.

Then a copper cell would make electrolytically pure copper which should get you the highest $ payout, and silver and gold will be in the anode slimes. 

I guess it all comes down to how much they pay per Kg for the mixed alloy copper you are selling and refined pure copper.


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## kjavanb123 (Apr 24, 2017)

All,

Please note that these cellphone boards werr already depopulated and components smelted so the PMs were recovered using lead smelting.

Then the depopulated bare boards that had gold plating on keypads and around it were leached using cyanide.

The leached, depopulated boards then got pyrolyzed, mixed with flux, then melted to get that copper shown in the photo.

Unless I am missing about other metals used inside the cellphone bare boards, then this copper should only contain copper.

I use an air compressor to do scorification so I would think any solders that presented in the cellphone boards that does not report to slag, should using air.

Thanks
Kj


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## kjavanb123 (Oct 12, 2017)

All,

In continue to above threat, I used venturi burner made by following king of random video on YT.

Incinerated whole depopulated boards. I noticed if I use a blender on pyrolyzed boards then incinerate them would result in much better incineration.

The heat from burner was so high even I was pointing it to material in open air, some of copper wires melted into beads.

Here are some photos,
Starting materials,



Incinerating the material, it turned out to be a cool photo,



Final product,



I will try to ball mill and see if I can use my homemade blue bowl to separate copper beads from ash.

Thanks
Kj


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## kernels (Oct 12, 2017)

Thanks for sharing Kj, very interesting work.


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## 4metals (Oct 12, 2017)

Was this just a test melt? Given enough material, the metals will pool and a flux cap can be easily broken away from a poured bar, no blue bowl or crushing required. Just drill and tap and hang them in a copper cell.


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## anachronism (Oct 12, 2017)

4metals said:


> The actual list of metals contained in typical cell phone boards is quite large.



This is very true. That lump of metal is no more than an alloy of lots of things. You can't draw any results from it without further refining or tests.

Edit: It IS pretty though but that's where the usefulness in reporting yields constructively ends.


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## kjavanb123 (Oct 13, 2017)

Kernel,
Thanks for your kind words. I will upload more as this project evolves.

4metals,
This was from 1007 grams of pyrolyzed bare circuit boards which I already smelted components and recovered PMs. 

Since we depopulate and smelt components we are left with big pile of bare boards which I used my last pyrolysis setup to pyrolyze few kg of them.

This is my attempt to utilize this cool venturi burner furnace I have built to incinerate these bare boards which components already smelted, and recover copper.

I used a mortal and pestel to pulverize the incinerated boards, interesting result, as seen in the following photos.

Starting material, incinerated bare circuit boards which was done using my venturi burner,



After milling using mortar and pestel,



I am going to sieve the ash then run it through my blue bowl to see if any copper pieces carried with the ash.

By sifting the ash and run it in bluebowl I plan to remove as much ash as possible to save on using flux for melting the oversize copper pieces.

My next project is to build a afterburner based on design from 4metals, pyrolyze, and incinerate 6kg of misc boards, smelt it follow by oxygen sparging and assay before and after sparging.

I will use electrolysis to part copper and recover PMs.

So stay tuned.

Regards
Kj


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## autumnwillow (Oct 13, 2017)

Based on my experience using soda ash (an oxidizing flux) for copper (a base metal) should be avoided as this will result in losses.

You can use boric acid/borax mix instead, 50/50. 

Though I am not sure how will you oxidize the other base metals without using soda ash.


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## saadat68 (Oct 30, 2017)

Is there a way to recovery copper from boards with acid leaching?


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## kjavanb123 (Oct 30, 2017)

Saadat,

It is possible to leach bare boards using acid, but it requires pyrolysis followed by incineration and milliing. 

I tried smelting the incinerated and milled bare boards with good result. 

I used the same flux mentioned by 4metals in his smelting thread.

5 parts soda ash, 2 parts borax and 1 part silica in my case I used pulverized glass.

Mixed that flux 1:1 ration with ash and smelted great result.

Best regards
Kj


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## saadat68 (Oct 30, 2017)

Thanks
Why they need pyrolysis ? 
I can not use smelting method because my workshop is small and this boards have Pb too that it is dangerous for me 

In many patents and journals they said best wet method is leach with sulfuric acid and H2O2 
This is process: 
Crush >> Mill >> leach with sulfuric acid with 10.0 vol% hydrogen peroxide>> electrowinning
We can get silver and gold in anode slime 
I want to refine low grade boards (for example TV boards) just for copper.

I think mixing sulfuric acid and H2O2 is very dangerous. Right?


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## Topher_osAUrus (Oct 30, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> Thanks
> Why they need pyrolysis ?
> I can not use smelting method because my workshop is small and this boards have Pb too that it is dangerous for me
> 
> ...



How would the gold and silver be in the anode slimes if the copper isnt melted into an anode?

It would all be mixed in with the junk and ash left over from your leach.

If you milled everything then smelted all the metallics into a copper anode, then you could electrorefine the copper and the PM's would be left over in slimes, but just electrowinning a leach solution is only going to remove the metal ions that are dissolved in the solution, nothing more.


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## g_axelsson (Oct 30, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> I think mixing sulfuric acid and H2O2 is very dangerous. Right?


Right!

Göran


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## FrugalRefiner (Oct 30, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> I think mixing sulfuric acid and H2O2 is very dangerous. Right?


Mixing sulfuric acid and H2O2 creates a solution called Piranha solution. Like the vicious fish it is named after, it will eat the flesh off your bones, then eat the bones.

Dave


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## saadat68 (Oct 31, 2017)

OK 
Thanks so I must use smelting method that it is not suitable for me and my conditions


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## scrapparts (Nov 3, 2017)

FrugalRefiner said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> > I think mixing sulfuric acid and H2O2 is very dangerous. Right?
> ...


Sulfuric Acid (alone) will do the same exact thing!

scrapparts


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## anachronism (Nov 3, 2017)

HCl fumes in a papercut sting a bit too. 8)


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## saadat68 (Nov 24, 2017)

Hi
I have a question
Shredded circuit boards can contain mercury switches, mercury relays, nickel cadmium batteries, or lithium batteries. Batteries are recognizable but mercury switches and relays not for a amateur refiner or labor

So How smelters or refiners deal with this problem ?


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## snoman701 (Nov 24, 2017)

I've seen quite a few mercury wetted relays...always well marked. Also always hermetically sealed.

The only other time I've seen hermetically sealed relays was on aeronautical equipment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## silversaddle1 (Nov 24, 2017)

Another thing to mention is that you are not going to get #1 copper price for that no matter what. You will find many scrap yards will not pay top dollar for stuff they don't know what it is. Even copper bars that are refined and cast are a hard sell at some yards. So make sure you have a reliable market before you go chasing the goal.


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## UncleBenBen (Nov 24, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> I've seen quite a few mercury wetted relays...always well marked. Also always hermetically sealed.



Nope. Not always.

I came across a couple of nurse call badges recently. They work by emitting IR signals at a certain rate. The signals are received by IR sensors mounted in the ceiling throughout the clinic. 

I had no reason to suspect mercury switches at all. I mean the things clip on to a lapel or a shirt pocket and are in constant movement. I spent hour researching and could find no real reason for it, but they did contain small LED shaped mercury switches.

I didn't know it was what it was until I went to pull the part off and it separated and I saw the little bead of liquid metal in the dome of the switch.

I took a few pics...


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## snoman701 (Nov 24, 2017)

In constant movement until one makes a habit of sleeping for two hours a shift in a hidden corner of the hospital. 

Useful little gadgets...not only giving out constant location, but also how busy said employee is.


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## UncleBenBen (Nov 24, 2017)

Ah, that's the use! 
Not so much on the tracking end but to save battery life when the badge was sitting in a nurses car all weekend. That hadn't occurred to me, I guess I was too dumbfounded at finding Mercury in something so mundane!

And that's probably why the system never got put into use. I'm sure the nursing staff were put into a mutinous state over it. Can't say I could blame them. I don't want my every move tracked either!!


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## saadat68 (Nov 27, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> They do it by filtering the particles, then electrostatic precipitation of the remaining particulate matter, then condensation of vapor.
> 
> Edited to remove crabbiness. But I would strongly suggest to the poster that they work on nailing the basics, and taking advice given in other threads.



Thanks
How small refiners deal with toxic metals ? Do they have condenser too ?
All of users here advice me refine another resource instead of button cells because they contain a little mercury 
But electronic scarps have mercury, cadmium, beryllium and ...


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## snoman701 (Nov 27, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> Thanks
> How small refiners deal with toxic metals ? Do they have condenser too ?



For many, they don't. They deal with toxic metals by not processing them. By buying it, and selling it at a profit. For those that do, they invest the time in to studying how to keep these toxic metals in solution. 

I would not look to e-scrap as a material source. 

If you look at the members here who make money off e-scrap, they make it by buying it in bulk, sorting and evaluating it, and selling it in bulk. They do NOT process it to make money, they process it to determine it's value. 

The few select members that are incinerating e-scrap without exhaust filtration and scrubbing are doing so in a manor that is releasing dioxins and furans as well as heavy metals into the environment.


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