# A new debate:Pandora's Box.. (for the "pro's" only



## AuMINIMayhem (May 9, 2007)

I hate even opening up this line of dialogue, but I *HAVE* to ask..

Has anyone ever considered using HF, yes Hydrofluoric Acid, for refining gold bits leftover from cutting up circuit cards, etc.? HF is reallllll good at eating glass and destroys quite a bit of the crap that might be in the gold.. also, I'm not quite sure, but I believe it makes a damn fine "leaching agent" (correct me if I'm wrong).. a lot of companies use HF in their baths, from what I'm finding.. Anyways, just curious.. I don't have any access to HF and I sure as hell wouldn't even go near the stuff, personally... I've had my run-ins with it at work which wound up ending in ER visits over a very dilute solution (Alodine 1201 which has cyanide and HF {0.1%}).. not my idea of fun, but it does have potential, I think, to be extremely effective in Au recovery. 

Thoughts? (I would have put up the skull and bones if I knew the HTML tag for it)

Let me note.. if you do not know about HF, don't even think of messing with it! That stuff is extremely hardcore! Even very dilute solutions can be potentially fatal. Just don't do it without the proper equipment, training and first-aid treatment on hand. I'm only bringing this up to start a new discussion and to satisfy curiosity, that's it. 

I highly recommend reading these links if you're even remotely interested in working with HF..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid

and the MSDS for HF

http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMSDSs/MSHydFluoricAcid.html

quote: (from the MSDS)
"HF differs from other strong
acids in that it not only causes surface burns but rapidly penetrates the skin, even in dilute solution,
and causes destruction of underlying tissue and even bone by the extraction of Calcium. For this
reason, washing the burn with water is not sufficient. A neutralizing agent which will also
penetrate the skin is required. The effect of HF, i.e. onset of pain, particularly in dilute solutions,
may not be felt for up to 24 hours."








*
"I'm a little verklempt! Talk amongst yourselves..I'll give you a topic: Hydrofluoric Acid.. good for refining or good for nuthin'?.. Discuss!"*


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## goldsilverpro (May 9, 2007)

I wouldn't touch it. There's absolutely no refining process that uses HF. There is absolutely no refining process that would benefit from the use of HF.

I worked for a plating shop that had a 500 gallon 63% HNO3, 7% HF solution. They also had a 300 gallon 10% HF. Someone was always getting burned. One guy lost his arm. He dropped some parts into the 10% HF and went after them - it looks so innocent. The HF came in a special 55 gallon drum. I was drawing some out and got 1 drop on my skin. It created a painful white burn, not unlike a sulfur match burn, that went nearly to the bone. It never happened twice. I've never used it again, except for etching glass. That's about the only thing it's good for.

I realize that you are Mayhem and you just earned your name.

There's no reason to discuss this further. You should remove the post. Somebody might be stupid enough to get some.


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## jimdoc (May 9, 2007)

I agree that it should be removed, or a safety post put up to warn people to never try it. Even if it isn't mentioned people may stumble across some and try it if they don't know the risks.


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## mike.fortin (May 9, 2007)

Chris, goldbay.com auction site owner, Dave, uses HF all the time in creating his spectacular crystal gold specimens. He must have learned what strength and what safety precautions. He might be a resource for those determined to try it. I agree, its nasty. 
I won't even etch glass with it. I tried one time. I bought of bottle glass etch solution at the arts and crafts store. Then someone told me it probably had HF in it. I called the manufacturer on the label on the back. Their tech support claimed there was no HF in their glass etch solution. Never told me what it was or if they did, I forgot. 
I googled hydrofluoric acid and found that it is routinely used in the Niobium, Tantalum, Molybdenum refining industry. Mike


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 9, 2007)

AuMINIMayhem said:


> I hate even opening up this line of dialogue, but I *HAVE* to ask..



goldsilver.. yeah, that's why I hated to ask.. but google HF and gold and you'll see there are a number of people using it in their washes.. that's why I posed the question in the first place..  (BTW.. "Mayhem" is not _that_ kind of mayhem.. LOL!.. more like "Tom-foolery" with a little "hijinks" sprinkled on top).. but I digress.. I thought I was pretty clear in my first post how serious the stuff is.. not to mention the thread title itself ..

Ok.. I'll leave it up for a few.. if you reallly feel that strongly about it (don't worry I feel as strongly about how dangerous it is as you do), I'll take it down..


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 9, 2007)

mike.fortin said:


> He might be a resource for those determined to try it. I agree, its nasty.
> I won't even etch glass with it.



okay.. I gotta delete this thread...


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## Noxx (May 9, 2007)

Already done


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## mike.fortin (May 9, 2007)

Mayhem--I just reported what I learned at a gold show in Victorville California from talking to Dave at his booth. No intent to offend you. Mike


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 9, 2007)

none taken...


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## lazersteve (May 9, 2007)

Albert Einstein said:


> "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."



I think this says it all.

Steve


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 9, 2007)

PMSL!.. good call, Steve :lol: 

again, let me re-iterate, this was just a thought meant to engage and bring forth some "alternative" thinking, please don't mess with the stuff.

A quick little story.. the first optics firms I worked at (which had damn near pure HF for "cleaning" optics and such) had a hatchet above one of the benches I worked at that said "HF Disposal Kit" on it.. knowing very little at the time I had to ask one of the guys that worked there, Charlie, what it meant, it was obviously a joke, but I didn't get it.. He said and I quote: "Well kid, that's the easiest way to take care of any accidents", at which point he made a sweeping motion like he was chopping his arm off.. needless to say, I tripled up on my "silver shield" gloves when I needed to use it..


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