# What can YOU buy for $5000



## toadiesop (Apr 12, 2007)

Apparently the "other" forum.

I don't really know anything about the "other" forum as I applied to it first, spent two days there, did a whole pictorial about what to take out of a PC and then I had some members lead me here. Bad blood, blah blah. I don't care about that and maybe bad blood is the wrong term.. whatever


But I think this is pretty funny. Only $5000?? For a forum??

http://cgi.ebay.com/Scrap-Gold-Refi...7QQihZ007QQcategoryZ46689QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I was going to put this in the "Lazersteve isn't switching sides", but it's locked.


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## jimdoc (Apr 13, 2007)

That is probably just his way to get free advertising on Ebay, since he is "selling something" they shouldn't pull his ad. He know he isn't going to get $5000 or maybe he is buggin.


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## toadiesop (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm just making sure that the ones from here that still post there are aware of this. 

If he is serious on selling, anyone can buy that forum along with all the info that Herold, Goldsilverpro, PM, and many others have provided.

Like I said, I don't know much on the whole "dueling-forums" deal, and I don't really care because this place is #1

But if he really is selling, anything posted there is fair game.

I'm not trying to "stir the pot" so to speak, but it's true, if someone does buy it, they own all the rights to whatever has been posted there.


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## lazersteve (Apr 13, 2007)

I may be wrong but I think it's illegal to sell someones intellectual property without their consent. There may be a gray area in a forum environment due to the public nature of the material. Does anyone know the actual law on this type of implied copyright? Does he have any copyright notices on the forum? If he does sell it, he may be required by law to spilt the proceeds with each of the contributing authors.

Steve


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## sandhog (Apr 13, 2007)

Funny I tried the link and I keep getting 404 error. I'm not a marketing genius but.......

Maybe it's a good idea to have the site up and running if they're gonna link to it. If someone buys it sight unseen I have a really nice car for them to buy too. One owner, old lady owned it, only drove it to work one way.

:lol: 

-sandhog


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## Noxx (Apr 14, 2007)

Whoa, I did not see that one... I had my auction deleted me too because I wasn't selling anything. Now I relisted it and I sell moderators rights. (Well actually the price is 1 billion$)  

Yes this is illegal to sell intelectual property. Any ways to report this ?

I did not know people on the other forum were refering this forum 
Thanks


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 14, 2007)

Noxx,

Actually, Haydn seems like a pretty nice guy. He's certainly not hurting your forum. No one has posted on his forum in a long time. Most all the people he has attracted have ended up on your site. When forums are duplicated, all people usually end up on the busiest, most informative one which, in this case, is definitely yours. On his last post, he even gave a link for your forum. In reality, you're the only game in town. I wouldn't worry about him, were I you.

If he does sell, maybe Harold and I will make some money. We, together, have 36% of the posts and, probably, have 80% of the words written.


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## Noxx (Apr 14, 2007)

Ok lol.

But I asked him recently to «honor his words». He was supposed to keep the link to my forum in a sticky post.

By the way, I don't not understand why he has more members... Is it because his ebay auction is before mine ?

Thanks


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## toadiesop (Apr 14, 2007)

Who cares if he has more members? That's just numbers.

How many members do we have here? And how many of them post regularly?

Quality is better than quantity. 

But on that note........

There's over 100 members here but there's only a handful that contribute. Which is great because the regulars are some of the greatest minds I've ever heard, read, or watched. So maybe these other non-posters, they're like I was a few years ago.... just curious, not sure if this hobby is for them, ect. just browsing, trolling for information 

So to all the registered users who don't post...

I'm a newbie as well but I've researched refining like it was a religion for the past 2 years 

I'm finally putting that information to use as of a few days ago and this forum had a huge part in that. I knew the theory but all I ever got was roundabout answers to any simple question I asked elsewhere. Here, I get videos, 3 page tutorials, when I ask a question it's usually answered within an hour, ect.

So don't be afraid to ask questions here. Speak up and let everyone know why you're here.

151 members (I just checked) :lol: 

So to the 130 whom haven't said anything...

START HERE

http://goldrefining.110mb.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=16





Sorry, I got sidetracked for a little bit. If that forum does sell I would hope that everyone who posted valid info would stand to get some sort of reconciliation. It would only be fair. And I'm glad I brought it up here, I was a little nervous at first posting that here, but I'm glad I did now... 

Although, whomever buys it for $5000 can't be that smart to begin with... :?:


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## Harold_V (Apr 15, 2007)

I was asked to moderate that forum, a request I honored gladly. It is a worthy place to spend some of your time, and, thus far, has been free from people that are trouble. I've noticed a respectable level of intelligence, although the forum has had little activity. 

As far as which is better, does it really matter? The real advantage of having more than one forum on such subjects is the ability to escape particular individuals that may have an agenda. Personalities are always a problem, so one may very well find one forum more suited to their agenda and desires than the other. Combined, they can be a force far better than either one alone, so both should be well attended and supported. It's not like one must fail for the other to succeed. Far from it. It's far more likely that if one fails, the other will be close behind. I, for one, will cease to post when there is no audience that requests help. 

I learned refining the hard way, although by having Hoke's book at my side, the experience was nothing short of a pleasure. Not withstanding, there were folks along the way that did everything in their power to discourage me. The worst offenders were other refiners, most likely somewhat jealous of others plying their trade. Fact is, it's not a high skilled thing to learn-----very unlike learning one of the skilled trades, precision sheet metal man, machinist, toolmaker, cabinet man, etc.. 

There are those that you will encounter that will discourage you at every turn. You've seen an excellent example of that very thing here on this forum via the negative posts by one individual, reluctant to contribute anything of substance that might help the guy trying to enjoy his hobby in his off time------yet spouting words beyond comprehension and value, as if to strut his finery. 

While it's nice to understand chemistry at the level of a chemical PhD, it is NOT a requirement to being able to extract and refine metals. These functions are basic and elementary, and are fairly well documented. As long as one is willing to read and learn from those that went before them, they can learn these basic operations to satisfaction, even turning them into a respectable business. That, in no way, is intended to detract from the value of a good education, just a mention that those of us that do not have the luxury of such an education need not be excluded from refining.

Read what contributors have to say, and ask questions. Do it on *both* of these forums. Everyone will be all the richer for the support. 

Harold


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## toadiesop (Apr 15, 2007)

Those are words of a wise man Harold. Well said.

And I agree wholeheartedly. So he's not trying to sell it?

That's really all this post was about , the selling of other peoples intellectual property. 

More power to them and I will visit now and again, but I'm just curious about the ebay deal.

see there's 1 BILLION (for this forum last I read :lol: !!! )

and then there's $5000. 

$5000 doesn't seem like a lot for someone in this hobby/business

No one has answered whether the "other" forum is really up for sale or not, and I'm not trying to start a forum playground fight at recess, I was just stating that it was for sale at a reasonable :roll: price for anyone that would type "gold recovery" into the ebay search bar.

Some people are pissed, some people defend. Sorry I mentioned it. 

I'm gonna go play with my cell.


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## Harold_V (Apr 15, 2007)

toadiesop said:


> So he's not trying to sell it?



Chuckle!

I'd be a fool to speak for someone when I don't know their agenda, but, no, as far as I know, it's not really for sale------although if someone were to make an offer --------who knows? 

In all my years of refining, I encountered only a few that cared to be involved. Based on that, it would be my opinion that Haydn, like Noxx, has used that particular medium to promote readership. Considering folks that think electronic scrap as a source of precious metals, it seems to be a natural. 

The number of people that are seriously interested in processing precious metals is not great. The number that are interested for the sake of the metals instead of monetary gain is even smaller. My initial motivation was to own pure gold, which was not legal at the time. Fortunately, by the time I was in the position to have much in my possession, ownership was legalized. My quest for the metal never changed, although when it became my source of income, I had a totally different outlook on the metals. I'm still a hoarder at heart, however! 

I think it was a good and useful thing that you brought the subject to the attention of readers. As I've stated, both of these forums should be supported and promoted------particularly by and for those of you that intend to pursue extraction and refining. In all seriousness, you can save yourselves a considerable amount of time and effort by relying on others that have traveled this course before you. That's not to say you can't accomplish the task without help-------it just makes success come faster and easier. As I said, I learned refining with no assistance at all. The only thing I ever gleaned from another refiner was the method of producing shot instead of flakes. Simply pouring molten gold from a dish will not yield shot. Here, and at the other forum, you have experienced refiners willing to share their knowledge. I'm not convinced many understand the gift being offered. 

Ok---------lets talk gold!!

Harold


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## Anonymous (Apr 15, 2007)

Harold_V said:


> s help.
> 
> There are those that you will encounter that will discourage you at every turn. You've seen an excellent example of that very thing here on this forum via the negative posts by one individual, reluctant to contribute anything of substance that might help the guy trying to enjoy his hobby in his off time------yet spouting words beyond comprehension and value, as if to strut his finery.
> 
> Harold



How old are you, Harold? 4?

Since I KNOW FOR A FACT you are disparaging me and my education and anything I have to contribute on this forum, I thought I'd establish just what is wrong with the formal education and experience that has landed me at my current job as chief metallurgist at my current refinery employer?

You are a johnny one note HAS BEEN, who bootstrapped his learning and won't let anyone forget it. Has it ever occurred to you there are people on this forum, such as myself who are curious about what you hobby guys are trying to do? You left the business. Goldsilverpro left the business, I'm still in the business, and I'm supposed to take a backseat because I use multi-syllabic words which are over your head?

What arrogance as well as what immaturity you continue to display. 

Has anyone besides me noticed lazersteve hasn't posted anything new since he broke down and bought your Bible by Hoke?

Take a bow, Harold. You're a real asset around here...that is when you aren't sitting on it.

a man named Sue


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## lazersteve (Apr 15, 2007)

I want to set the record straight concerning a previous post for anyone who was following this thread until it went south.



Sue said:


> Has anyone besides me noticed lazersteve hasn't posted anything new since he broke down and bought your Bible by Hoke?



This is not a factual statement by any stretch of the imagination. The day I received the Hoke book I made this post:

http://goldrefining.110mb.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=215

The date was April 3, 2007. 

Since then I have made 86 posts to 51 topics and 2 new tutorials. I will continue to post as I have been an average of 10 post a day everyday.

I don't understand how this type of conversation keeps working it's way into a forum that is meant to be fun and educational for ALL the members regardless of their background, nationality, or education level.

Since I received the book by Hoke on April 3, 2007 I have made it thru 13 chapters to date. I have not encountered anything in the text that would make me stop posting on this site. The book doesn't even mention electronic scrap so far and probably won't. It's a great text with a bit of redundnacy in several of the chapters I've covered so far. It's an excellent guide to the general techniques surrounding the use of AR in precious metals processing. I have also ordered another text to assist me in learning assaying that will not affect my posting habits to this forum.

Steve


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## Anonymous (Apr 15, 2007)

You might ask Harold why he insists on continuing to work his distaste for me into his posts? 

Granted I don't write something everyday,
but, I can't help but notice since the Hoke has landed in your life, you stopped the karat cell you promised, and I don't recall any many new videos on all the new stuff you've learned in the first 13 chapters?

It's a fact...you can't read and make videos at the same time.

When you first started posting it was a video tutorial everyday. Now there's hardly a photograph from you, let alone many videos. Why is that?

And since when is this forum only about electronic gold recovery? Who cares if Hoke wrote on electronic gold recovery or not? 

And if this is a forum primarily about electronic gold recovery, then why did Harold insist you buy Hoke and read it. Sounds & appears to be a distraction technique to me.

Do you need me to requote Harold V's uncalled for dig at me in his newest post on this particular "General Chat Thread?"

Want me to go find all the digs at me and my education and current employment as a younger refiner currently employeed from Harold.

Might make for a long post.

a man named SUE


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## Harold_V (Apr 15, 2007)

Considering gold electroplated materials are a relatively new phenomenon, there is no coverage in Hoke's book in regards to processing them by any method. It's probably safe to say that there was no such thing available to be refined, so there was no need. 

If you go back far enough in time, gold plating was used in very heavy applications. I had occasion to process some early wave guide materials that yielded gold that rivaled gold content of some gold filled objects. In excess of 3% was recovered, but the batch was run with cyanide, not sulfuric, and incomplete stripping was the result. The project was halted at that point. 

The real value of Hoke's book is to detail testing and AR processing for those that are starting out and have no clue. I think that is mentioned in the book. It was written in plain talk, so a person without a chemical background could read and understand how to process waste materials. It is redundant because the processes involved are similar, if not identical. She made it easy by detailing each alloy that one might encounter, so you can address a given chapter for needed information. Truth is, you can lump most of the types of alloys together and refine them by the inquartation/nitric process-----but would you know that had you not read the book? 

It's extremely unusual for those in the know to disclose successful procedures where refining is concerned. It is, and has been, a closely guarded "secret" as long as I can recall. Hoke's book is one of the few exceptions available to the novice. I recommend it highly, even though it does not detail stripping with sulfuric. Once stripped, the information in the book is more than adequate to allow the reader to turn out gold quality that rivals the "big boys". 

Harold


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## lazersteve (Apr 15, 2007)

Harold,

I've greatly enjoyed the book. I haven't been able to read much of it this past week due to my work load, forum activity, and visiting relatives. I have learned much from it. I completely understand why electronic scrap is not included in the book, you or one of the other members, made that clear before I ever bought the book. I think the main idea that the book conveys is to engrain the process of refining into the reader. She stresses performing the experiments listed in the book, in order to associate the process with the results (learning by doing). This approach is right up my alley. I will finish the book soon. 

I feel like most of the forum members think I'm geared towards electrolytic refining because of my tutorial posts. That's not the case. Of all the gold I've recovered and processed, less than 10% was processed using the cell. More than 80% was recovered using peroxide-acid. About 5% was processed using AR, and the remaining 5% was processed with other methods while I experimented to find the process that suited my needs ( safe, efficient, and economical ). I have lots more gold scrap to process. I'm sure I will be performing more experiments to find ways that meet my needs. As I perform these experiments I will share my ideas and experiences with the forum.

I'm not into gold recovery to get rich. I'm not in it to prove anything to anyone. I'm not doing it to become a professional refiner. I'm doing it just for fun. I know that's hard for the professional refinery guys to understand, it's just the way I want it. It works for me and that's what matters to me. I get a great enjoyment form sharing my experiences with others. To me it's about relaxing and enjoying myself. As long as I have fun and can share with others, I'm happy.

Steve


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## Harold_V (Apr 15, 2007)

Steve,

Your objective, near as I can tell, is very much as mine was. I wasn't interested in the money potential, although I sure didn't mind that the fruits of my labor were valuable. My father worked in hard rock mining in his early years, and was always a prospector of sorts, so I had an interest in gold as long as I can recall. 

As a boy, I was fascinated by several things. Radio & electronics, chemistry and mechanical things all held my interest. I turned to refining when my mother's godmother passed and left her humble home to my mother. When we cleaned it out, I found two pairs of wire frame eyeglasses and an old gold wedding band. I hauled them home with the idea of extracting the values, and it blossomed from there. Once I got started, I was hooked! 

In the end, refining exposed me to the chemical industry, satisfying to a small degree, my interest. If I had my life to live over, I'd likely go to school and get a degree in chemistry, but that was not in the cards for me as a child. 

Right up to the day that I sold my refining business, I was still in awe as gold precipitated from solution, and even more so by watching platinum and or palladium precipitating. To folks like me, lacking in education, it is all shear magic! 

I can truly understand how and why you enjoy your hobby. In a way, I regret having allowed mine to become a business, although it was the gateway to my early retirement. 

Harold


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## lazersteve (Apr 15, 2007)

Sue,

I read the book on my lunch breaks at work. I make videos after work in the evenings and on the weekends. The two have nothing to do with each other when it comes to timing. Perhaps I set the forums expectations for my rate of video productions too high with my initial set of videos and their accelerated production timeline. 

You and Harold butt heads it's obvious. That's between you two and I hope you both can find a way to work around your personal feelings towards each other. I don't think that should stop anyone else from getting what they want out of the forum.

I have been discussing the karat cells with some other members both publicly and privately. Here is one such public post:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1994

I've been working with another member on the final details of the cell. I want to make sure I get it right the first time thru so I'm doing my homework first. Please forgive the delays.

I'm only one person and I can't keep up the breakneck pace of posting to the forum, working a full time job, sleeping, eating, and socializing without a break. To produce a video a day is not feasible for me at this time. I'll be lucky to make a single video this coming week with my upcoming schedule. As for making post concerning Hokes book, I haven't given it any thought with everything else I've been doing. Truthfully, I felt like I deserved a break and was stepping back a little to let some of you more experienced refiners make a few videos of your own while I take breather. 

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 15, 2007)

I was a little different. I love to refine and I love earning a living doing it. I love the magic of gold chemistry. I love making the gold disappear and then resurrecting it, better than when it started. I love the dangers, the colors, the smells, the difficulty to conquer it, the challenges of getting it all and getting it pure, having purple of cassius stained hands, the beauty of pure molten gold, etc., etc..

And, everybody has to eat. It's nice to be able to make an excellent living doing something you'll never tire of.

My copy of Hoke was taken about 10 years ago and I haven't replaced it. I probably read it through 10 times and always found new things. Every sentence has meat. I think she uses redundancy to stress points. When I first read it as a novice, only the main points sunk in. When I knew more, upon rereading, I always found new things. The last of the book is 100's (it seems like) of varied, well explained tidbits, many of which had nothing to do with aqua regia. Somewhere in the book, she mentioned the sulfuric patent. The patent and the book both came out in 1940 and she didn't know much about it yet. Look in the index for Western Electric or sulfuric.


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## lazersteve (Apr 16, 2007)

The book is very well put together. I especially like her attention to references, pricing, and sources (despite being outdated). It inspires me to want to assemble a guide from all the material herein in the same format, like a guide book fo modern scrap refining and recovery. Of course, I don't have the free time to assemble the book and other details associated with the production of such a guide.


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## Harold_V (Apr 16, 2007)

goldsilverpro said:


> the beauty of pure molten gold,



That has to be one of the most rewarding of all the experiences. As a rank novice, one that had no experience with precious metals, the beauty of pure molten gold was one of the more pleasant of surprises. Who could have imagined a metal with a golden luster would have a green luminescence when molten? Who could imagine that it would sit, perfectly tranquil and quiet, not reacting with its environment. 

Assuming one has done a good and proper job of refining, and melted with clean utensils, the resulting pool of metal simply glows, without a sign of oxidation. Once cooled, it will show no signs of coloration aside from the color of pure gold. That is truly a treat for the eye. Eye candy, if you prefer. 

After reading these comments, I came to realize that refining precious metals, particularly gold, became my drug of choice! It brought years of personal satisfaction to a very busy life. 

Harold


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## jimdoc (Apr 16, 2007)

One thing I see in Hoke's book is she mentions test needles of
the various platinum alloys, and of colored gold. Does anybody
know where these could be found nowadays? I asked a few different companies and even suggested that they make them as they are no where to be found, by me anyway.
I think that test needles for the platinum metals would be a help to alot of people, as they are tougher to distinguish from similar metals, besides specific gravity.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 16, 2007)

I couldn't find them either. If you can find a jeweler that works in platinum, you could probably buy tiny pieces of pure Pt and the various Pt alloys from him. If the pieces are small enough, they shouldn't cost much. He has small pieces of scrap and also, he buys his metals in a shot form and would probably part with a small piece of this. You could do the same with white golds and color golds. All you need is very tiny pieces. It's best to get the stuff from a jeweler than to use pieces of jewelry which you can't always trust. Call around and tell the jewelers you're trying to accumulate as many reliable alloys as possible.

Eventually, you'll have a good collection. The problem, of course, is to organize the various alloys and keep them from getting mixed up. If the pieces are malleable, as they should be, you could carefully flatten them (or, ask the jeweler to do it) with a small hammer and then use a small set of stamps or simply scratch the numbers on to label them.


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## jimdoc (Apr 16, 2007)

I have been buying some marked jewelry, but like you say that cannot always be trusted, and that is what I want to be able to test in an easy way to make sure they are honestly marked, and for the unmarked.
If anybody on the forum has a way to make some pt alloy test needle sets or stars, you should be able to make some $ on Ebay.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 16, 2007)

The only thing I don't follow in the Hoke book is to always use ferrous sulfate to precipitate the gold. With today's purity requirement of 99.99%, it's virtually impossible to get that purity with FeSO4 - the iron is the problem. I do know why she uses it. FeSO4 gives the cleanest separation of gold from the Pt group, which is good. But, if you use FeSO4, you'll probably have to reprocess the gold and use another precipitant for the second drop, in order to get high purity. I prefer photo grade sodium sulfite (Na2SO3). Sodium metabisulfite is OK. It is best to melt the first drop before redissolving it.

All in all, if I think Pt group is present, I use FeSO4 first and then redo it with Na2SO3. If you use Na2SO3 first, you will probably track over a little Pt group into the gold. This can be obvious when you melt the gold. Only a small amount of Pt will make the button appear dirty or, the button will have fern-like crystals on it. If I know there's no Pt group, I'll use the Na2SO3 for the first, and only (I hope), drop.

If you don't keep the FeSO4 dry and out of the light, it can convert from light green to the brown ferric sulfate, Fe2(SO4)3, which doesn't work to drop gold. Keep it in a sealed brown or amber bottle. FeSO4 is very safe and the cheap technical grade is available in 50# bags. Better still, find a chemical company that repackages tech. grade chemicals into smaller quantities. Photo grade Na2SO3 is available from large camera shops that handle developing chemicals.


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## lazersteve (Apr 16, 2007)

Hoke also mentions the use of SO2 gas in cylinder form. Has anyone seen it at any local suply houses? If so how much does it cost and at what type of store?

Chris or Harold,

Do you guys know if the gas SO2 is more specific than Na2SO4 at dropping exclusively gold ?

Steve


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## lazersteve (Apr 16, 2007)

Hoke also mentions the use of SO2 gas in cylinder form. Has anyone seen it at any local suply houses? If so how much does it cost and at what type of store?

Chris or Harold,

Do you guys know if the gas SO2 is more specific than Na2SO4 at dropping exclusively gold ?

Steve


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## Harold_V (Apr 16, 2007)

First the test needles. 

I have never encountered any made for the platinum group----and I'm not convinced you'd find any that worked to your satisfaction. It's easy enough to distinguish palladium from platinum, which are the two metals you're most likely to encounter. A drop of nitric on palladium will provide enough solution to react with stannous chloride or dimethylglyoxime.

Test needles and dropping bottles, plus a touch stone, used to be available from jewelry supply houses----marketed by Vigor. I doubt you'd find them at a jewelry store. Rio Grande in New Mexico could be a source, but I don't have their catalog to verify that they're still available.

I would highly recommend you not try to assemble your own samples if you're interested in testing karat gold. Between dishonest benchmen that under karat, and marking laws that permitted a variance of a full K, depending on how an item was manufactured, is sure to lead to error in your samples, and the test is difficult, at best, with known samples. 

Truth is, once you get past the learning curve, it would be rare to have need for them. Mine sat unused once I got established. That might not be true if you ran a pawn shop, or got involved in buying frequently. 

The most important thing you can do is learn to distinguish karat gold from gold plate or gold filled. You can do that with nothing more than a small three square file and a dropping bottle of nitric. Bottom line is you have to go through the learning curve and train your eye to recognize the reactions. 

SO2:

I started precipitating with ferrous sulfate, and it works very well. If you have a clue about the amount of gold you intend to recover, very little is left behind, and it readily washes from the gold if you use a proper washing technique. My washes were always done by boiling the gold powder in a fume hood, washing with HCL and tap water, followed by a boiling rinse, followed by a wash with ammonium hydroxide, taken to a boil, decanted, followed by a water rinse, also taken to a boil, decanted, then followed by a second wash with boiling HCL and water, with a final tap water rinse, and finally drying, all in the same beaker, all done in a fume hood, with heat control. You have to be very patient in drying the gold, otherwise you experience steam explosions with gold being lost to spattering. Done slowly, it's not a problem. 

You can see contamination being removed by the above process. The final wash is generally void of any color, so it's a good indicator that you've removed contamination. Further, the color of the gold powder is a good indicator of purity. The lighter the color, the higher in purity you'll find the gold to be. 

The problem with using ferrous sulfate as opposed to SO2 is that it markedly increases the volumes of solutions, so it requires larger and larger vessel with which you conduct your refining. I used nothing but lab grade containers (Kimax or Pyrex glassware), so I was limited to size, which was a problem as greater amounts of gold were processed. Changing to SO2 to precipitate permitted handling larger volumes because there was no increase in solution volume by its use. You can precipitate up to 18 ounces of gold from a 4 liter beaker, assuming you start out with an iced, concentrated solution. Precipitation is an exothermic reaction, so a beaker full of ice ends up a beaker full of warm or hot solution after precipitation. Cooling is important if you expect to precipitate all the gold. 

I found that SO2 would drag down a trace of palladium, but only from concentrated solutions. A second refining, which was my routine, would always eliminate the traces, even if they were not washed from the gold powder on the first refining cycle. 

You may encounter problems buying SO2. I think it all depends on industry in your area, although, with the changes due to EPA, that may not be true. Remember, I've been out of the game since '94, and have no clue what it's like to buy chemicals currently. 

SO2 is commonly used by many, including the wine making industry, but it can be difficult to obtain in small bottles. You'll come to realize, if you try using it, that it borders on the impossible unless you have a fume hood. It's dreadful stuff to work with otherwise. Solutions retain a large amount and are suffocating to work with after the fact. It is discharged readily by boiling a solution, but, again, that requires a fume hood. 

The platinum group will usually hitchhike with the gold solution, but in small amounts, too small to precipitate by conventional means. I recovered the traces on scrap iron, which, of course, eventually requires the use of a furnace for recovery. Sort of a vicious cycle, which, in the end, dictates that you have quite a bit of equipment if you intend to recover all values. It took years for me to build everything I needed. 

Harold


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## catfish (Apr 17, 2007)

Jimdoc:

I have been buying karat gold for some time now and the most important thing one learns is to never trust a hallmark or someone telling you that it is real karat gold. I test every peice of gold I buy. I have a high end gold tester, gold test picks and all test acids. (and a good magnet) I trust the test acids only.

I use the gold tester to see if the item has any gold content. Then I look for hall mark (karat marking) and make sure that there are no letters following the hall mark, like gold plated, gold rolled or electroplated or any other markings. Then I file a notch in each item with a small edged file about 1/16 inch deep. Then I start with my highest acid, like 18k and then work down to 10k if necessary to determine the actual karat rating. I have a good set of picks and the whet stone but never use them for they are not reliable in heavy plated or rolled gold. You only have to get burned once and you learn to test, test and retest. 

I have a simple proceedure that I go through when I find gold for sale.

I take and run a stong magnet through the pile of metal. This will seperate any ferrous metal.

I then take and look for hall mark karat rating. Put that in a pile marked with 10k or 14k or etc.

I then test it with my gold tester and reverify the karat test.

I then take each item and file it with a edged file (rat tailed file) about 1/16 inch deep and start with 18 karat test nitric acid and observe and work on down to the actual karat rating of the gold. Note! this test will seperate the plated, filled or rolled gold from the real stuff.

I then separate all the finial tested items that tested postive for gold into thier proper pile.

I then weigh each pile and determine the actual gold content in each pile by using the magic number of 24k/10k (example)=.417. Besure to take into consideration that there is 1/2 karat tolerance in the manufacture of the gold item. I always use the number of .39 or 39%, 55% and 72% of actual pure gold content. 

Once I have came up with the accumilated actual gold content, I make the seller an offer to purchase the entire lot for a certain amount, cash, depending on the monthly average spot market price of gold. I usually I pay from 60 to 70% spot. It depends on the floating average price of gold.

PS. always test chains and ropes, both on the chain itself and the clasp. they can be misleading.

Also don't pass up good gold plated, rolled or filled items. I buy them too. I ususlly figure that I will mine out about 1% to 3% gold from good stuff. Gold filled and rolled has more gold than plated. Just do the math and you can come up with some good items to recover or refine.

Lots of luck

Catfish


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 17, 2007)

Catfish

I really admire the way you approach this buying. You seem to have all the angles down pat.

My son hates his job and I've been trying to get him to go out and buy scrap, starting with karat gold. He likes the idea but doesn't feel he knows enough. I've given him links to your forum posts but, I doubt if he's read them. He's been around PM scrap all of his life and likes it. 

When he was in middle school, we were living in Malibu. In middle school, he was taking a jewelry making class. Most of the kids were rich and they would bring in silverware and gold jewelry from their homes, to melt and make jewelry. At the end of year, I gave him $500 and told him to buy all of the scrap from the other kids. He only spent $100 and brought home about $800 worth. He's had the bug ever since.

He's in the Dallas area, like your son. Dallas is a big city and I imagine it would support a lot of buyers. Does your son buy full time?


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