# Renewing the Torch Topic



## juxtaposedsoul (Jul 19, 2011)

Hey Guys,

I checked all the previous posts, and did several weeks of research and comparison shopping, but I cannot seem to find the right torch set-up for my purposes. I would appreciate input/suggestions. I am a small-time "hobbyist" refiner concentrating on silver at this time but intending to refine gold as well. I process only 3-5 troy ounces each week. My torch is just MAPP gas and will not melt more than 1 ounce of silver and get it molten enough to pour ingots. Hey, it was a $60 torch and that is exactly what it is worth. So, what is the next step up from here? I'm trying to find a good oxy-propane rig that doesn't cost a small fortune. Or should I be looking at oxy-acetylene? There seem to be drawbacks and limitations with either option. There are not many oxy-propane set-ups available for a small-timer like me. The oxy-acetylene rigs are abundant but I don't think any are compatible with the size #2 tanks I want to use (40cf oxy and 40cf acetylene). The acetylene tank is also called type "B". Any suggestions on an affordable way to get the heat and BTU's I need? Also, are the jewelers "Little Torches" good for melting and casting? If so, how many ounces can they handle? I do not see myself melting and pouring more than 5 OZT at one time. 

I'm not trying to make anyone repeat themselves. I have read everything on the topic in the forum. But times and gear change. Thanks for any advice.


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## element47 (Jul 19, 2011)

There really aren't (to my knowledge) torch sets sold as "oxy-propane". Any oxy acetylene set can be changed to oxy-propane by changing/selecting tips, and, if needed, the fitting that goes into the propane tank. The regulators are the same, obviously the oxy is the same, and the propane regulator works in the same range as the acet regulator. In recent years, the ICC changed the fitting into the propane tank, it used to be the same as the fitting for an acet tank. This is just a matter of buying a "stem", a 4-5" piece of brass pipe one end that goes into the regulator w/a standard 3/8" NPT thread and the other for the changed fitting for the propane tank, and swapping them. Use teflon tape on the threads just like any threaded pipe. 

As for the tips, I do not think there is any difference between single-orifice oxy-acet heating tips and oxy-propane heating tips. There is a difference between how much fuel you use and what pressures you use, but a little experimentation and you will dial that in, no big deal at all. The exception would be for a rosebud tip, the one that looks like a showerhead. You may never need a rosebud tip for small melts; if you do, THAT tip might be a tad expensive. To cut STEEL using oxy-propane you definitely need a different tip, but these are surprisingly cheap. $10 for the part you have to change. If you never cut steel, you don't need that tip, simple as that. 

The one thing that is a superb idea for safety is to have check valves on the hoses to the torch. I have always preferred to have them at the torch end rather than the tank end; I have also had both. 

I would look around for a used US made set in nice shape where you might be able to get the tanks and a little cart thrown into the deal. I would try to get a brand where the replacement parts and optional tips are easy to get. Victor, Harris, National are some brands that come to mind. There are a lot of people out of work and a lot of these sets available for sale.


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## juxtaposedsoul (Jul 19, 2011)

Element47 (I like that name),

Thank you. I am just a bit hesitant to "rig up" an oxy/acet torch to run propane. I have heard of this type of conversion before, but not in such detail as you provided. I'm not to keen on the idea, however, although I would dearly love to run propane instead of acetylene. How safe can this type of conversion be? And why on earth are there not many oxy/propane rigs on the market? The Smith "Little Torch" is one such rig, and also the Gentec "Small Torch". They are fairly expensive and I fear they may not melt more than 2-3 ounces of silver. I like the suggestion of looking into some used gear. That may be the way to go. Maybe I can find a top-of-the-line brand like Victor for a really good price. But again the dilemma is that most rigs will not hook up to the 40c.f. acet tank. I know there are ways to "rig" that, as well, but I am not too eager to customize any compressed gas blowtorches. I would like to leave well enough alone, but there does not seem to be a "well enough". I just found a Victor-style torch online at Northern Tool & Equip. that seems like it hooks up to the "B" tank that I want. The rig is $219.00 for the hoses, two regulators, two torches, 5 tips including a rosebud, checkvalves and misc. stuff like striker, etc. The tanks and fuel are additional to the tune of $300.00. Refills/Exchanges are about $25.00 per tank.Total starting cost would be about $519.00 + taxes. Is that reasonable? It's a little bit more than I want to spend but I will also check into used gear, too. Thanks again, I appreciate the advice.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 19, 2011)

juxtaposedsoul said:


> Element47 (I like that name),
> 
> Thank you. I am just a bit hesitant to "rig up" an oxy/acet torch to run propane. I have heard of this type of conversion before, but not in such detail as you provided. I'm not to keen on the idea, however, although I would dearly love to run propane instead of acetylene. How safe can this type of conversion be? And why on earth are there not many oxy/propane rigs on the market? The Smith "Little Torch" is one such rig, and also the Gentec "Small Torch". They are fairly expensive and I fear they may not melt more than 2-3 ounces of silver. I like the suggestion of looking into some used gear. That may be the way to go. Maybe I can find a top-of-the-line brand like Victor for a really good price. But again the dilemma is that most rigs will not hook up to the 40c.f. acet tank. I know there are ways to "rig" that, as well, but I am not too eager to customize any compressed gas blowtorches. I would like to leave well enough alone, but there does not seem to be a "well enough". I just found a Victor-style torch online at Northern Tool & Equip. that seems like it hooks up to the "B" tank that I want. The rig is $219.00 for the hoses, two regulators, two torches, 5 tips including a rosebud, checkvalves and misc. stuff like striker, etc. The tanks and fuel are additional to the tune of $300.00. Refills/Exchanges are about $25.00 per tank.Total starting cost would be about $519.00 + taxes. Is that reasonable? It's a little bit more than I want to spend but I will also check into used gear, too. Thanks again, I appreciate the advice.



You might want to hit he pawn shops.


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## element47 (Jul 19, 2011)

You are smart to be cautious, but I can tell you from direct experience it's no big deal. Yes, on the oxygen regulator you are potentially dealing with 3000 psi pressure and that is to be respected, both in terms of not playing with the regulator, keeping everything oil-free, and perhaps most importantly chaining up your tank when in use so it does not tip over and break off the valve. But you are not going to touch the oxy side. Propane has a vapor pressure of about 120 psi. Nominal pressure of an acetylene tank is sort of in that range. I myself have run an oxyacetylene right from a "B" tank, in fact, I have run it from an "MC" tank....one of those dudes that is only a little bigger than a Bernz-o-matic propane cylinder! It is nothing more than getting the correct adapter. No improvising here, get the proper adapter, it's a $10-$15 thing. It's brass, it cannot spark and ignite anything. As you may know, acetylene in a pressurized tank is stored dissolved in a clay matrix soaked with acetone. It thus should not be extracted from the tank at a rate greater than 1/7th the tank volume per hour if I remember correctly. If you do, you will start to pull acetone out of the cylinder which will not burn in a happy way. It will be very smoky. So an MC tank is problematical but a "B" tank is no big deal. You are going to be hanging a modestly heavy regulator off the valve for the tank, but again, I had a 2-stage set which are rather heavy. A single stage, much smaller reg set is surely better here. 

What this means in practice is that you shouldn't, with a "B" tank, be looking to heat up a huge wad of metal with a rosebud tip at full blast for 15 minutes. But...you shouldn't have to, this stuff is massively hotter than a handheld MAPP-air torch. It's actually not all that much hotter but it is the way the torch dumps btus INTO THE WORK. A nat'l gas flame doesn't look all that different from a propane flame, but the difference in the amount of heat it can dump into the work is large. 

The whole thing is no big deal. There's the whole thing about keeping the rig on the clean side, but you have seen these things in scrapyards and they get plenty dirty and greasy. Work outside, have the ventilation you should have anyway, beware of fire hazards and flammable crap lying around. That's about it. Changing the tip(s) is nothing. They just unscrew, you put on a different tip. You make sure the thing is seated and that there is no gross dirt in the joint. It's only hand tight except for the oxy-propane cutting head which requires a wrench. The hose fittings require a wrench, but you'll typically only mess with them once. All the threads on oxy-acet stuff can only go on one way in only one place.


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## cjfeath (Jul 20, 2011)

I was looking to and found this one... Found it and had to go to work so did not research

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## Buzz (Jul 20, 2011)

I was looking on eBay for some more Mapp gas when i found this stuff.

http://tinyurl.com/3zhtpvu

Does anyone know if this will do the same job as Mapp gas?
It is a lot cheaper for sure!

Regards
Buzz


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 20, 2011)

Buzz said:


> Sorry, the link didnt work and i can't seem to edit it either!
> 
> Regards
> Buzz



Here you go.

http://tinyurl.com/3zhtpvu


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## juxtaposedsoul (Jul 20, 2011)

BarrenRealms 007, Element 47,

Thanks guys. Pawn shops- great idea! All right, so this is what I have learned: I should get an oxy/acet rig with the size tanks I want. I can use that just fine, or I can safely convert to oxy/propane with the proper adapter. Propane will run plenty hot with oxygen for melting silver/gold, and should be more cost effective than acetylene. It will also generate more BTU's so the lower temp than acetylene is offset and hardly noticeable. Won't work for "welding" but I don't want to weld. The search is on for my "permanent" rig! I think I will sell all my MAPP/propane stuff on eBay because it is really ineffective but still in great shape.

Cjfeath, I checked out the set-up you found at Home Depot, and although I have not actually used it myself- and I am certainly no expert on torches yet- I can relay to you the following critique: yes, it works pretty well...for about 10 minutes or so. The problem other members of this outstanding forum have pointed out is that the tanks are tiny and the oxy lasts 10-15 minutes max. New bottles are at least $10 each and the cost adds up very quickly. All in all it is not a viable set-up for someone refining even on a small scale, although perhaps it would work for someone refining and melting on a very, very small scale. If I am wrong I trust one of the generous and much more knowledgeable members will correct me.


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## Harold_V (Jul 21, 2011)

juxtaposedsoul said:


> If I am wrong I trust one of the generous and much more knowledgeable members will correct me.


You are not wrong. 
I used one of the large oxygen cylinders when I refined---if memory serves, they're 245 cubic feet. Refill cost was right at $16.00. It's not cheap to get the bottle, but the savings and convenience of extended use quickly repays the initial cost. 

Harold


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## Buzz (Jul 21, 2011)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Buzz said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, the link didnt work and i can't seem to edit it either!
> ...




Thanks Barren! No idea why it wouldn't work for me, they normally do.

Anyone have any idea whether this stuff would be of any use?
I'm just looking at the cost of it.

Regards
Buzz


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## NewBullion (Jul 22, 2011)

After taking great advice from Harold, I went out and got myself a new torch. Oxy / Propane with a heating tip similar to the Rosebud....I hope. Just waiting for a wrench to arrive so I can tighten the regulators to the cylinders correctly..........can hear, feel & smell hissing of escaping propane. The torch is 18" long which feels just right. However they only come with 90 degree heads. The nozzle is a FUTNOZ-PHNM. I'll let you'll know how it goes. I decided against acetylene for many reasons.......cost, availability, safety....


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## Harold_V (Jul 23, 2011)

NewBullion said:


> After taking great advice from Harold, I went out and got myself a new torch. Oxy / Propane with a heating tip similar to the Rosebud....I hope. Just waiting for a wrench to arrive so I can tighten the regulators to the cylinders correctly..........can hear, feel & smell hissing of escaping propane. The torch is 18" long which feels just right. However they only come with 90 degree heads. The nozzle is a FUTNOZ-PHNM. I'll let you'll know how it goes. I decided against acetylene for many reasons.......cost, availability, safety....


The right angle leaves a little to be desired, but it's something you'll get used to in a hurry. 
Indications are, *you did good*! 8) 

Harold


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## NewBullion (Jul 23, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> The right angle leaves a little to be desired, but it's something you'll get used to in a hurry.



Yeah. It's only until they get to 26" or 37" long torches, that they offer 75 degree heads. 
Just lit the torch. It's more like a flamethrower with the tip. :shock: Only turned the propane regulator slightly and the flame was rather large. Not what I was expecting. Turned it all off and just staring at it now. I'll pluck up the courage again in a minute and adjust the settings. Everybody stand back!! :roll:


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## juxtaposedsoul (Jul 23, 2011)

Hey NewBullion,

Where'd you find the rig? I am searching high and low for an oxy/propane set up right now, with no luck. I don't think anyone actually makes one except for those tiny little jewelers torches. Did you just buy everything separate? I have been advised I can buy an oxy/acetylene rig and convert it to propane buy simply buying a propane tank and an adapter to go from the tank to the acetylene regulator. I'd like your thoughts on that. Congratulations on the set-up, I am mildly envious as I am still without a real torch. Would you please elaborate on the various reasons you decided against acetylene? I would really appreciate it as it is looking more and more like I will be going that route. Thanks.


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## NewBullion (Jul 24, 2011)

3rd time of writing because something keeps deciding to delete everything Ive spent ages putting together :x 




juxtaposedsoul said:


> Hey NewBullion,
> 
> Where'd you find the rig? I am searching high and low for an oxy/propane set up right now, with no luck. I don't think anyone actually makes one except for those tiny little jewelers torches. Did you just buy everything separate? I have been advised I can buy an oxy/acetylene rig and convert it to propane buy simply buying a propane tank and an adapter to go from the tank to the acetylene regulator. I'd like your thoughts on that. Congratulations on the set-up, I am mildly envious as I am still without a real torch. Would you please elaborate on the various reasons you decided against acetylene? I would really appreciate it as it is looking more and more like I will be going that route. Thanks.



Hi juxtaposedsoul.

I bought the torch, hoses, regulators, and flashback arrestors as a kit. Had to get a cylinder key / spanner seperately which is certainly needed. Waiting for correct flint ignition sparker "thing" to arrive too. Don't like using a cigarette lighter. I've put a deposit down (technically bought) on the propane and oxygen cylinders, both full, and I just pay for refills from now on. I get my deposit back whenever I decide to hand them back in. Probably in 10 years time when I'm a millionaire :roll: 
In my shopping search, I came across torches for oxy/acet, oxy/propane, oxy/any fuel. I'm sure conversions can take place but not being an expert of any sort, I assume each torch to their own, and each one might be different. The oxy/acet torches come with an extra dial to adjust the flame I believe...or at least some do. My torch is not a welding torch but a cutting torch. It only has a dial for oxy & propane with a lever/trigger. The regulators are quite simple too. You might want to find ones with readings. I decided against acetylene, because it's harder to get here in the UK. If you can find it, it's more expensive. I can go to my local petrol station 2 miles away and get a refilled propane cylinder and a cup of coffee. O2 delivered to my door and empty one taken away. Also, if something was to go wrong with a propane cylinder, I might irritate 100 neighbours. If something goes wrong with an acetylene cylinder, I would have 1000 ex-neighbours angry with me about why the sides of their houses are missing. :shock: However, I'm going to find out how to use my torch correctly because a 4-5ft long flame, 2 ft high, on a low setting, seems crazy. It's not what I was expecting but I'll keep ya'll posted. Dangerous! I had to make an anode so resorted to my electric furnace, I have to get another crucible if Im to ever melt melt my final bars using it because this one if covered in flux and junk. First attempt.....fail....when I poured there was just a big fire again. Not sure if it was too hot when pouring if there is such a thing. I cooled it off in a bucket of water, and then this bobble appeared & cooled. Looked like a silver fossil. I hit the bobble because it sounded hollow, "bursting it" and all this water came out. I will be sure to get to work on the torch very soon though/this week as I would like to use that instead. Even if I can use it to build a larger furnace somehow.

http://www.parweldltd.com/ Similar company to the one I used.
http://www.hilouk.co.uk/contact.aspx I got details of a local supplier from here. This is the company I purchased from. Might be worth emailing them to see if they export or know somebody who does. 

I tried to find some info for your side of the water, but wasn't easy. Here is a list of companies in Canada but from reading a few, not all of them might offer what you need. Just a case of ringing some of them, and if they don't sell the torches, they might know a man who might. 

http://ca.kompass.com/live/en/g53029901070201w4641008/flame-welding-cutting-machinery-equipment-metal/welding-equipment-oxy-propane-1.html

Ebay is another source but I couldn't find much on the US site except for a 36" Gentec oxy/propane torch.......but I can't find details for Gentec to see if the sell smaller versions. 

I hope some of this might have helped a little. 
Disclaimer: I am a total newbie. Any corrections from the experts would be greatly appreciated.


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## juxtaposedsoul (Jul 24, 2011)

Hi NewBullion, 

Thanks for the reply. It is difficult to find an oxy/propane torch over here. There are millions of oxy/acetylene rigs available. It looks like the decision is being made for me. Sounds like you have a fire-breathing dragon for a torch. I, too, suspect a 4-5 foot flame isn't ideal. All kidding aside, be careful and let me know how the melts go with the new rig. I may just buy a kit for oxy/acetylene and go that route since that is all anybody sells here in the U.S. When you get a nice bar post a pic or two in the "Silver" forum for all to see. Thanks again!


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## element47 (Jul 24, 2011)

I must say, I am a tad puzzled by your rig. Perhaps it is the difference in format between US & Euro rigs if you are in Europe. 

No way should you have a 4-5 foot long flame. No way at all. That is completely out of control. Something is not right. You must be feeding gargantuanly too much fuel to the thing. I am at this moment skeptical that one could adjust the flame to that size even if they wanted to, that is so much fuel that I am surprised the flame can even sustain itself without blowing out. 







This is the normal configuration of how an oxyacetylene "kit" would come in the US. You would have more, different sized heating tips, but they would would all look about the same. 

To weld, you screw a heating tip onto the mixing handle. You just open the fuel tank valve a little: more than just a crack but not full on. You adjust your fuel regulator to about 4-6 lbs of acetylene. With propane, probably around 6-8 lbs. Whenever you adjust your regulator outputs, you have to have the torch valves open so that excess pressure of either gas can escape, or, underpressure can fill the lines and the torch without backpresssure. Thus, a little gas escapes. The regulator pressure adjust procedure should start by unscrewing the big knob so that it feels a little loose. That corresponds to zero output. With the fuel tank valve a little bit open and the torch-handle fuel valve somewhat open you turn the reg knob clockwise and you will feel it get a touch harder to turn at some point. Only a little bit after you feel it get harder to turn, keep turning clockwise, and the low pressure gauge should start showing 1-2-4 lbs of pressure and that's where you want it for acet, maybe 6-8 lbs for propane. You will dial this in a little now and again as the amount of fuel in your tanks is drawn down, but in essence, you will never touch this again. You leave it where you like it and turn on and off your welding operation using the valves on the handle and the tank. Once you have 6-8 lbs at the torch end as indicated by the regulator, shut off the fuel valve at the torch handle. You haven't ignited anything, you are just checking fuel flow. 

Now you move to the oxy cylinder. Start by unscrewing counterclockwise the regulator adjust knob to that loose condition. That is zero output. Make sure your face is nowhere near the glass faces of the regulators, turn your head away, and crack open the oxy valve. *Remember that there are thousands of lbs of pressure in the oxy cylinder and if the regulator fails and blows out the glass faces of the gauges, they'll embed into your skull. So when you open up Mr. Oxy, your face and head are out of picture. *Once cracked open, the oxy valve is a different type than the fuel valve, is a double-packed valve, and should be opened all the way, slightly snug against the stop in the open position. In practice, most people do not do this, they just open the valve some, but it is the correct practice to open it all the way against the "open" stop. 

Now you do the same thing as with the fuel. Open up the oxy valve on the torch handle some. Start turning the oxy regulator until you feel slight resistance, and you'll see the low pressure gauge on the regulator get to 4-6-8 lbs. Close the torch handle oxy valve. 

Now, your regulators are set to 4-4 or 6-6 or 8-8, pretty much matched oxy and fuel pressure and you are ready to WELD or BRAZE. (Not cut steel) 

You screw the heating tip of your choice on to the mixing handle, turn on fuel, light up fuel, adjust, turn on oxy, adjust, get your flame where you like it, and start to burn metal. 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Now NewBullion, I have two comments on your rig. 

First, it appears to me that what you have is a DEDICATED cutting torch. I say that because you have that lever handle, and furthermore, that lever handle is way back on the body of the torch. You will note that on your typical welding-cutting outfit I have pictured, there is a mixing handle that does not become a cutting handle UNTIL the attachment with that lever is attached to it. That big lever is characteristic of the cutting head, or a cutting torch. That lever opens a valve and lets high-pressure oxygen out at full blast to impinge on steel you have already heated red-hot. The full-blast oxygen chemically oxidizes the steel you wish to cut into slag and physically blows it away. 

On the set I have pictured, you will note that the cutting head has 1: the lever to open the hi-pressure oxygen, and 2: another valve. That valve controls the hi-pressure oxygen flow. The hi-pressure oxygen pressure is in the neighborhood of 20-25 lbs. When using the style of rig I have pictured, IN ORDER TO CUT, you crank the oxygen pressure up to 20-25 lbs AT THE REGULATOR. The oxy valve that you just opened a little to WELD WITH when your pressure was 4-6-8 oxy you OPEN ALL THE WAY. Then, you use the valve on the cutting head more as a CHOKE...and turn down the oxy flow at the cutting head valve to produce your low-temp flame. You heat up (it's called pre-heat) the steel you wish to cut until red heat. When you depress the lever, oxy is turned on full blast and away you go. 

So when I look at your rig which I am not familiar with, I do not see any "third" valve. This leads me to believe you have a dedicated cutting torch there. I myself do not think you want this type of setup. 

Secondly, the type of tip attached to the torch end of your rig is a pre-heating or rosebud type of tip. A rosebud tip should go on the normal 2-handle mixing handle and, while it is typically a bigger and thicker tip than a normal cutting tip, it's just a bigger, 2-valve tip and has NOTHING to do with cutting. No third valve, no lever. Indeed, it surprises me somewhat that you can even screw such a rosebud tip onto your dedicated-cutting handle. It looks odd to me. 

So I am really quite baffled by what you got going there. If I may say so. You might have a rig that is suitable to melting a kilo of silver at a time, but by the time you are melting that much silver, I don't think torch would be the method I'd use. 

A cutting head (and I wouldn't be using that at all) should produce an inner cone, light blue flame between 1/4" and 3/4" long measured from the end of the tip, and a darker, outer, "feather" flame about 5-8" long. Depress the lever and the flame should get a lot noisier with the rush of full-blast oxygen, the inner cone goes away, and the whole flame turns lighter blue and maybe gets to be a foot long. But no way 4 feet. That is big time wrong.


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## juxtaposedsoul (Jul 27, 2011)

Element47,

If I may chime in one more time, I would like to sincerely thank you for the excellent response you posted. There is a ton of great and vital information there for not just me but anyone new to using dual-fuel torches. Truth is I used oxy/acetylene torches a great number of times when I was a younger man and worked on concrete pumps. I did a lot of steel fab and also a lot of arc welding. But that was 20 years ago so for all practical purposes I am new to this. I am still hunting the right rig for myself but also spending a lot of time learning how, and buying the equipment necessary, to distill acid. No rush on the torch as I want to be sure it is suitable. One thing I noticed about NewBullions rig were the strange-looking regulators. These do not appear to actually have dial indicators. Maybe I am wrong. Just a thought, as it would certainly be vital to know what pressure you have.


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## gold4mike (Jul 28, 2011)

Element47,

I too appreciate your long, detailed response. I bought a small National Torch 3A to use with Propane / Air. I had no idea where to start since I bought it used. I had the propane regulator set at just under 20 pounds, lit the torch, started adjusting the air. All of a sudden I heard what sounded like an M-80 going off beside my head and caught a glimpse of the fireball that shot past my right ear.

The force of the explosion blew out the flame. I quickly turned off the propane valve and checked myself for missing pieces. All I managed to do was singe an eyebrow, my hair, moustache and beard - thank goodness.

It turns out that the hoses are friction fit over stab fittings on the torch and 20 pounds of pressure forced the hose off which shot a lot of propane toward the flame. The explosion also split the tip. In the process of ordering the new tip I found that I was supposed to use 4 pounds of propane pressure for that tip. 

These are the kind of lessons that stick with you!


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## juxtaposedsoul (Jul 30, 2011)

Got my rig today...finally. Wow, I never thought I was indecisive but it sure was hard to settle on a torch. I ended up with the Port-a-torch by Harris. It uses the small size 1 cylinders but they are refillable and I do not do a great many melts. The rig cost 280.00 at Lowe's and then I exchanged my new tanks for a pair of crappy old tanks with gas for another 50.00. So, 350.00 altogether. Is it worth it? Oh my, yes, indeed! I just melted 28.6 grams of silver in roughly 90 seconds. Sure, that may not be a big deal to the veteran refiners here, but for me it was like magic. I mean, I was spending 20-30 minutes trying to melt the same exact piece of silver with my old MAPP torch just 3 days ago. And so now I know exactly what Harold and most everyone else was telling me: an oxy/acetylene torch is not a luxury, it is an essential piece of equipment. That's all for this thread, I guess, since the matter is resolved. Thank you to everyone who contributed information and insight. And for the love of god, BE CAREFUL with that torch Gold4Mike!


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## element47 (Jul 31, 2011)

Sounds good! 

Take note of the "test dates" on your exchange cylinders. If you don't use them a lot, these cylinders are supposed to be hydro-tested every 5 years, especially the oxygen one. Do NOT let that tank remain in your possession 5 years over the last test date, or even particularly close to 5 years You will, uhhh, find that is not that "exchangy" any more! Don't worry about $10 worth of oxygen left in it...swap it before it gets out of test date, whether you need to or not.


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## juxtaposedsoul (Jul 31, 2011)

Element47,

Thanks for the info. I will check the date on each cylinder, and when I exchange them. Kind of sucked giving up my two brand new cylinders for these crappy gaspony exchanges but at least I have my rig up and running. Also, please forgive my math on my last post. I was so excited about how awesome the new torch is that I incorrectly said the whole set-up cost $350 but it was actually $330 plus taxes. Therefore, anyone who is considering upgrading to an oxy/acetylene torch can do so for the same amount. Of course, you can spend more money for a better rig, too, but this one is fine for me.


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