# Why there's still people buying ebay guides ?



## Noxx (Jun 27, 2007)

Hey guys,
I was looking on ebay the amount of sold guides (how to recover gold, precious metals, pt, refine it, etc) Why there is still people paying for information when we have a lot of this information here (or even more) ?

Do people think they will get better quality informations and tutorials if they pay for it ??

Just wondering... This is kinda weird.


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## jimdoc (Jun 27, 2007)

Noxx, some people just like spending their money, some might think that everything will be organized to easily understand in what they are buying.
I have been nothing but dissappointed in any that I bought. Especially Megan Rose's stuff. You should make a disk to sell yourself, and tell everybody what they are buying and much more everyday, could be had here for free.
Jim


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## lazersteve (Jun 27, 2007)

Noxx,

Don't forget that some of the sellers on ebay are their own best customers. Who's to say the guide sales are not being artificially inflated by sellers buying the guides from their own other account names ?

Something to think about. :wink: 

Steve


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## GoldWriter2 (Jun 28, 2007)

Everyone is right, the guides on ebay are junk. ESPECIALLY MEGANS'', however, the reasons I think they sell are:

1. Yes, people want to pay to believe, 
2. These books are listed right with the gold and electronic scrap AND
it's an easy impluse item,
3. Not many know of this forum or how or why to use it
4. And all in this forum - including myself- are the ones buying to see what others are doing, and at the same time we are inflating their numbers...


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## Charlena (Jun 29, 2007)

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 

No not everyone is buying them because :

"1. Yes, people want to pay to believe" (well ok I have to give him this one as he must know better than I in that arena)

"2. These books are listed right with the gold and electronic scrap AND 
it's an easy impluse item" (sure but so is both the other Steve and Charles FREE info)

"3. Not many know of this forum or how or why to use it (but aren't you here to change all that?)

"4. And all in this forum - including myself- are the ones buying to see what others are doing, and at the same time we are inflating their numbers... " (while of course I can only SPEAK FOR MYSELF here...I find that statement VERY offensive.)


Please forgive me for being a negative Nancy here but....ugggg
Yo Kitty what gives?
Uggg :evil:


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## joeyjenny310 (Jun 29, 2007)

i would have never found this forum if i was not putting around on ebay myself. got lucky i guess ,everyones trying to sell something its nice to get some help with out having to pay for it ~


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## GoldWriter2 (Jun 29, 2007)

Charlena, my point is, I would BET many on this forum have bought the ebooks and manuals on ebay in an effort to learn MORE. That's the only point. 

Yes, there is FREE info here, but people put value on what they pay for and not what they get for free. Tell people they have $1000 worth of gold or gold to be refined and charge them nothing they will do nothing. Charge them $50 for that informatiuon to tell them what they have in their very own home. Have them inveest in the information and they will takes steps to do something about it.

As far as me helping the forum and getting it KNOWN. NOT ONE SINGLE person has offered help, info, results or suhc. No one has shared their successes, so there may not be much I can do for the forum. It's all being kept hush hush.


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## Noxx (Jun 29, 2007)

> NOT ONE SINGLE person has offered help, info, results or suhc. No one has shared their successes, so there may not be much I can do for the forum.



I did. I told you my story and sent you some pictures of the gold that I refined. Don't say that I did not try.


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## aflacglobal (Jun 30, 2007)

I just wrote you a story on the suff i found to. True it's not thru yet. I am currently taking it apart and plan to keep accurate counts on what i have found , get out of it, and how i will probaly do it. I am going to use it as my source material for experimenting with a couple of new ideas. You won't get your info for this project quickly or all at once . Some things are just slow.

Hell their it is from start to finish, Pictures and all. Even a twist with some new technology. Hell people love that stuff. I'm not doing this for you of course. I am doing it for the education of others. If you learn, that's fine to. I notice you at least seem to be communicating some. That's good.
At least it's something.

You seem to know an awful lot about the in's and outs of the information by others. Mainly rose. I sense something their. What is it ?
But of course if you have done the research for this project. Then that would posibly explain it. Got to ask before you will just be included. They are not just going to come to you. It's that the marketing in you again G.W.
lol.

Take care man,

Ralph


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## GoldWriter2 (Jun 30, 2007)

Ralph and Noxx,

Yes Noxx, got your photos (thanks) but what did the gold come from... just need the completed story.

Ralph, yes I know megan roses stuff, BECAUSE I BOUGHT IT. I bought everything on ebay. Each report each DVD and such. ALL JUNK and rehash. So, yes I know Roses stuff becuase I shelled out voer $200 for all she had and when I recieved the flip pocket book junk I wanteds to puke. What a RIP OFF.

I am seeking MEAT.. Meaning how many fingers produced X gold? An average Cat has X pounds of monolith, and the monolith yield X in Plat, RU and such. Trying to narrow down the FACTS and apply mathmatical formulas.

You see, the profits are all in the math. FInd cpu's for $1.00 each and it yields .50 cents in gold is fine, but it's not fine if you had $1.00 in shipping and $1.00 in materials to get that .50 cents.

You see I am trying to look INTO the merk and SEE if someone can make a better return that say real estate investing, a 401k or even the stock market... becuase THERE IS the story. But if you cannoit make money from it, America will not listen.

I am getting the sense that msot have found, bought or acquired items for recovery, but have never taken the time yet to recover. So, they do not really know IF there is profit in it. And that is what I am seeking, those who KNOW they have amde a profit at it, or have actually seen the gold come out the other side.

So, Ralph and NOxx, I am still here, but for some reason this line of dilaog does not notify me when there is a new post or reply. It only does that to MY orignial post.

And, Ralp you have my phone number...... USE IT.


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## heavymetal (Jun 30, 2007)

Well i see the post and i will give my 2 cents worth. I looked at the guides and i didn't buy none because i thought they were trash. As a matter of fact that is how i found this websight while looking on ebay and i think Noxx posted something about it and i was like "hey just what I'm looking for." I get most of my gold from working the rivers and creeks of North Georgia, it my no be cost effective in dredging, but i don't know or care, I love being under the water for hours on end and i get gold i can say i worked for but enjoyed doing it. family gets to go camping and enjoy the outdoors. It's a hobby, and the people on here from the posts i've read and the replies i have gotten have been friendly and knowledgable. Now i have to take my engine in to get it fixed so i can dredge this year.


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## blueduck (Jul 31, 2007)

ya know i skipped over this post for a month, but for some reason today i clicked on it and read it.

I bought Ms Megan Roses books on Pt recovery, and its taken me awhile to understand what is written in them, and i did not buy them from ebay but directly from the publisher in Parma Idaho thru Megan herself..... I believe she has the information people want but did not put it in the book for some reason or other, in my opinion the books were not worth what i paid for them in the sense they are written haphazardly and not in a technical style i am use to reading..... that does not mean they do not contain information that is relevant to the process of recovering metals from scrap.

I bought the books from her after reading a couple of her posts on the GPAA forum [yes i am a member too of that group of seekers of yellow metal] and then seeking out the information on the web including ebay to see about feedback and negative responses to the books she has written. I too found this forum from an ebay ad, but i was not seeking refining or recovery information as such at that time, I actually was looking at equipment for gold bearing gravel recovery...... although we have other metals and gem stones in the creeks around the county i live in here in Central Idaho, gold remains the easiest to find for me. So after coming to this forum i only found one negative comment about Ms Megan Rose at that time and that came from a fella who builds and sells a machine to recover PGM so was in a direct competition with her for customers it seemed to me... toss out that type of comment and you get no negatives...

Go to the other gold recovery forums and gold mining forums and you find no one has negative comments about her books there either and her posts are rather helpful to the miners around the world. Now i aint trying to champion for anyone, but even PT Barnum knew there was a sucker born every minute and two to take him..... caveat emptor.

Ive scrapped out metal from scrounging it, it aint fun, it aint easy and as soon as someone else in the area sees a person doing that, and doing it weekly the competition gets fierce for the discarded items to the point no one makes any money but the scrap yard dealer, ergo i have scrap in my shop i have not sold and my wife wants me to get rid of it, just not enough of it to pay me to sort it down to the salable stuff and the refuse for what is there. I kick myself for tossing out all those computer components that i had from working on some many computers that died, the precious metals in them would have cost me nothing, but at the time i was under the impression that it would take literally a ton of boards to get any where near an ounce of gold back, let alone any other metal that is worth recovering... now i find that Pd is in all those little multi-layered ceramic caps MLCC and resistors too, that the folks who use tantalum pay for the recovery of those little buggers..... and the world just tosses most of this stuff in the trash cause no one has enough in anyone place to make it worth the effort it seems to make it pay back the equipment and product used to recover the precious metals.

After finding and joining this forum, I find VERY HELPFUL folks here that share information without hesitation, and watching LazerSteve's videos brought it all into line for me of what to look for in the reaction processes. Catfish has shared a couple of spreadsheets with me that he offered to others and i ask if i could have them as well, and both of those brought a better perspective into focus of what they covered. Others have shared books and thoughts that also have been a boon to my learning curve. I learn daily from the posts that are here, and a few times I have personally stumbled upon a phrase or term I did not understand and had to search a few other posts to keep from being confused but for the most part everything is here one way or another.... 

Ms Megan did join this forum after I emailed her and told her that a fella was discouraged with her product, so i spect she has read this thread as well as others, this I know because in an email to me she made a statement concerning one of my posts, no biggie one way or the other, and like I said I aint anyone's personal champion, other than my family. I am a seeker of knowledge which will help my family set victuals on the table in the long term and in the short term provide me with a learning experience that can never be taken away, because i am just a man, no more no less and I have people who depend upon my being around for them.

William
Central Idaho


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## lazersteve (Jul 31, 2007)

William, 

I must say that was a very well put post. It makes me feel like we all are part of a bigger whole that have similar interests at heart. I too learn something here everyday. I have all of the contributing members to thank for this. This single aspect of the forum is what keeps me striving to bring better and more accurate information to the table for everyones benefit. I'm not in this for the money like some. I don't have many secrets to keep. I just want to provide knowledge which as been kept hidden by many for a very long time. 

The way I see it everyone here will benefit by sharing this knowledge freely. We will all become more proficient, safer, and more educated by this open exchange.


Thanks for the great post.

Steve


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## Cobraj (Jul 31, 2007)

Hi all,

This is my first post after reading on here for a week or so. I paid $2. on Ebay to get in here and are very grateful I did. There is allot of knowledge in this forum and that is what I wanted also. I also just bought Megan Roses Platinum kit and am waiting for its arrival. I was a little concerned about comments I read about her stuff on here. I'm a total novice at this so I guess maybe her stuff will impress me, I don't know, I hope so. I believe it was what I was looking for, it sounds like it has some good info and techniques for the best results. 

My interest is in Catalytic Converters for right now. The best and must profitable way to do them. I'm looking at decanning, separating, and having an element to send to a refiner. I have access to converters at a good price and want to get the most out of the converter as possible. 

I have seen some things on cats here that were very useful and across the net. It all seemed to indifferent and I couldn't grasp the whole thing like I would have liked. I'm hoping Megan’s stuff will do this it seems she had a process that was very successful in recovery of PT metals. The ratio of the 3 metal groups in converters shocked me the most. I saw somewhere that on average Platinum 500grams, Palladium 300grams, and Rhodium 200grams are recovered in 1000lbs of honeycomb. The ratio of Rhodium was shocking because most refiners didn't pay anything for it or the most I found paid 75% of recovered Rhodium. 

I could use anything that would help to totally understand this market I have a working knowledge of it but the refining part is new for me. I’m looking forward to posting and reading this forum more often and will be here for the long haul.


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## aflacglobal (Jul 31, 2007)

I paid $2. on Ebay to get in here :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :shock: 


Who , what, and where did you pay this to ?


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## lazersteve (Jul 31, 2007)

Welcome to the forum Cobraj.

Thanks for posting!  

I believe the ebay auction was mine. The $1.05 I charged covers the paypal and ebay fees for posting the auction. I made nothing by providing you the information. I actually wrote in the auction description requesting interested ebayers to perform a Google search that should lead them here for free, but some people are still buying the auction. :? Maybe I should reword the auction?!

Anyway, thanks again for joining and posting!

Steve


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## aflacglobal (Jul 31, 2007)

Welcome to the forum Cobra. Jimdoc is your man for the converters. He has done extensive research in this field. 

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi//phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=713&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


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## aflacglobal (Jul 31, 2007)

Ok Steve, I just thought it was a scalper. :lol:

What about that $ 99 dollars shipping. lol


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## Cobraj (Jul 31, 2007)

Hi all,

LazerSteve, Yeah it was a great deal though. :wink: I couldn't remember exactly what it was but your correct on $1.05 and thank you for the warm welcome all. 

Thanks aflacglobal I will check the post out. 

Great info all! Super videos too LaserSteve!

Still looking to compile info to get a working knowledge of PT recovery from CATs. 

Thanks again! I say charge $2.00 anyway. :wink:


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## jimdoc (Jul 31, 2007)

Blueduck,
I also was not happy with Megan Rose's books, in the
way they were written. She says you can email her with
questions? I bought the books for the info, not to be having
to ask other questions, that should have been answered by
her overpriced "pamphlets". She also never really says what 
the test supplies are, and says they will always be available
from her. Yeah right, if I liked overpaying for everything maybe.
She posted on another forum that you should always get an
MSDS when you get chemicals from somebody, yet she doesn't
even tell you what the ones she sends you are, let alone give
you an MSDS. She wants you to have to buy them through her.
I just didn't like her attitude for somebody selling books like she
does, she should take some criticism from her readers more
seriously when they tell her that her books don't make as much
sense as they should. She babbles about unimportant crap, and 
doesn't go into detail about stuff she should. It's a shame because
she probably could have made the books alot better, but I guess
she thinks she aced them, and she didn't
That is my 2 cents on her books. 
This free forum is worth ten times what her books cost.
Thanks again Noxx and everybody else! 
Jim


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 31, 2007)

If I were a beginner and seriously wanted to earn a living doing this and had some extra money, I would buy every scrap of information I could find. I am saying this assuming that the forum exists and I have read everything on it. Knowledge is King in this business. 

What you've seen on this forum, so far, is a drop in the bucket, even though it's, by far, the biggest and the best source of information on the net. This field is so vast that you'll never learn it all. If you buy any book from someone that has some sort of hands-on experience in this field, I guarantee that you'll learn something new. Everyone that does this stuff, does it differently. Who knows, some little tidbit you picked up may pay off 1000 fold, someday. Also, the more you mature in this field, the more you'll learn from any of these books, when you re-read them.

I've heard Megan Rose's name on forums for the last 5 or 6 years. It seems like 50% of the people love her and the other 50% hate her. I've seen her writing on forums and don't like her arrogance. If her books show the same arrogance, I would have trouble reading them. However, that doesn't mean her books aren't chock full of good information. I just don't know.

When talking about books, my son always says that there's always some good wheat among the tares. You just have to weed it out.

That's why people still buy books on Ebay. If I had a bunch of extra money, I would buy them also.


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## jimdoc (Jul 31, 2007)

Cobraj,
Action mining sells a dvd on leaching with CLS.
It is worth the money. You should be able to build your 
own equipment like they sell or Platinumills machine
on your own. It is just PVC, a pump, tanks with carbon
plates and a power supply or battery charger.
You can see pictures of Action Mining's System IV on their
website, the catalog is downloadable on pdf. They also have
smaller ones, one is just a five gallon bucket that you should
be able to make on your own also. Mike Glenn says on the dvd
that you can make your own, but they won't help you out with
plans or details. Jim


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## lazersteve (Jul 31, 2007)

Ralph said:


> Whay about that 99 dollars shipping. lol



Ralph,

I felt bad telling people that didn't read the description they owed me another $99.99, plus when I let them off the hook, it cost *me* the other $1.04 for the auction post! So I got smart (or so I thought ) and added the actual cost of the auction up with paypal fees as the shipping. Well buyers still were skipping out on the shipping! Imagine that a 1 cent auction with a $1.04 shipping and you're too cheap to pay the shipping! I still can't figure out what makes some of the guys on ebay tick?! Lately I had two guys buy the auction, pay the penny, (skipped out on the shipping) and get banned from ebay the same day?! I wonder why? :lol: I think they were copy cat crooks trying to cash in on the same information. Who knows maybe they were both the same crook!

I'm done ranting and raving,

Sorry everyone... I feel better now  


Steve


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## jimdoc (Jul 31, 2007)

GSP,
The 50% that like her are probably like sheep following
her like she wants them to. You hit it on the head with
the word arrogance. The books are vague and yes there
is alot of good info, But worth the money? I don't think so.
They surely aren't as good as she pumps them up to be
in her Ebay ads. Her arrogance turned me off from any 
further dealing with her. I would like to hear your opinion
on her books if you ever get the chance to read them.
Jim


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 31, 2007)

Once. on the 49ermike.com forum, Megan said she had learned a lot from the George Gadja book, "Gold Refining." She really praised the book. It was like Gadja was her mentor. This really shocked me, since I (and Harold, also) think the Gadja book is the absolute worst book ever written on the subject. It's full of technical errors and, there's probably not a complete sentence in the whole book. It's still widely sold, though, even on IPMI??? Strange. When she said these things, I subconsciously put her in the category of the unknowledgeable. Until I read her material, she's still there.

She also got into an argument, recently, about pin sampling. In pin sampling, you insert a glass tube into molten metal and a vacuum sucks some metal into the tube. You break the glass away and are left with a metal "pin". You cut off portions of the pin to do assays. In the trade, it is a state of the art, accurate, method of sampling and, probably, 90% of all refiners use pin samples and have done so for about 25 or 30 years. Megan said that it sounded like a con and she had never heard of anyone using pin samples. She's supposed to be an expert.


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## Cobraj (Jul 31, 2007)

Hi all,

LazerSteve, no worries bud the public at large is mostly good but it seems Ebay has a anal rate of 75%. I do some Ebay stuff just selling used things I no longer need or buying silver or other bars at a spot price. My brother is heavy in Ebay dealing mostly in auto parts and boy doe she have the stories! Anyway, don't lose sleep over the few slackers that didn't pay shipping. People like that reap what they sow. 

Jimdoc, I will be sure to let you know how it was. Like I said though I'm a novice at this and I might think it is a book. What I was after was a complete package of the best way to do the business from start to finish. (small scale) Now Megan says in her sales pitch that she has the best way to do this. I need to see it all and do it all myself to see. I'm hoping this will give me a complete and working knowledge of what all is involved so I can test different technics myself. I hope to speak to you on other things and questions I might have later if you would. 

My background is automotive related designing and mechanical work for a race team. I do some engineering type work on my team. I love to learn and have a complete understanding of what I'm doing. This is the reason I'm trying to get as much info as possible on this. I could very easily make a machine that does leaching with CLS. I just need to understand it. I'm assuming this book I'm getting will have this type of recovery process or similar. So far I haven't really seen much on the net, still searching!


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## jimdoc (Jul 31, 2007)

Well she probably wrote her stuff in the style of the
Gadja book. She also mentions C.W Ammens book,
and that is a way better investment and cheaper than
her "books". Jim


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## aflacglobal (Jul 31, 2007)

goldsilverpro said:


> She also got into an argument, recently, about pin sampling. In pin sampling, you insert a glass tube into molten metal and a vacuum sucks some metal into the tube.
> 
> I think i remember this. Is that where they were emailing some guy at a refinery about it ? I remember all kind of flack over the subject.


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 31, 2007)

Absolutely right, Ralph. I remember that someone called her on it. I may have gotten my 2 cents in also.


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## blueduck (Aug 1, 2007)

Actually the process is a basic 190 degrees F with acids, rinsing with distilled water as far as i can gather..... if a person buys her cat book then they have to buy her plat book to get the formula, at around $300 total, toss in another 40 for the tire converted into a ball mill and a person is in for more than a penny to start.... but a person has to start somewhere...... 

Being a more of a i see it I can duplicate it kind of fella, this little booklet she writes leaves alot of things out that have to be researched and flipped back and forth to finally get a grasp in the manner it is written.... 

She does recommend roasting the ground catalyst and offers a cheap furnace to build in the booklet making up about a third to half the cat booklet. She also says not to grind the pellets but just roast them to get off the hydrocarbon build up [staying downwind is not a good idea and hopefully the neighbors wont mind the smell either..... [to combat this i hope to back out on an acreage in a few months.... the lawsuit i got involved in just lain did not allow me to do much in the way of funding the past coule years and we just get by for the most part] 

I am not the most edumacated fell in the world, but being self taught in many things allows me the ability to grasp ideas and concepts easier than some, Ms Megan's booklets ive had for about 6 weeks or so and I have had to read them through several times to make things clear in my own mind and then, after all is said and done they are not complete in the fact there is no way offered to turn the Pt and Pd powder into metal except to pay her or some one else to do so and no explanation as to why a home workshop cannot put the powder back to solid [ok i suppose it has to do with the melting point of Pt is about 3150F (1773C)and Pd is a little higher]... and the home smelter may not be able to achieve that kind of heat readily [though my idea is to use browns gas from a homebuilt rudimentary H2 generator into a small gas foundry... film at eleven ;-O]

The best advice i have read so far and it is repeated in many threads on this forum is to purchase C M Hoke's book Refining Precious Metal Wastes, cause evidently the answers lay in that book to many questions.... so i am am saving for a purchase of such a book if from nowhere else at least from Action Mining, they were kind enough to send me a catalog when i called them.... and Megan had the folks at www.minerox.com send me their catalog as they are even closer being about an hour away in Riggins Idaho.... and they suggest that i can purchase most of the needed chemicals though the fertilizer company about 25 miles away or even at the local feed store and not get to far off of the mark for what she recommends using.... anyway i hope there is a way to drop Rh out of the catalyst instead of sending that off to a refiner as she suggests doing in the booklet... maybe there is not. The hype was not what got me to purchase the booklets, but rather the price of the PGM's making it appear that a person can recover the metals and make a fairly good profit margin doing so as a hobby..... though time will tell if her $2000.00 from 6 cats is accurate or not..... treating the monolith as an ore body may be exactly what is needed though, and the missing link in most of the information available elsewhere.

I am also interested in getting the gold metal out of tellurides which are quite common in the streams and rivers around the Central Idaho area, commonly mistaken as metallic magnetic black sands.... but are heavier.

William


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## jimdoc (Aug 1, 2007)

William,
Do you know what the test crystals in Megan Rose's kit
are? She just calls them test bags #1,2,3. I know #1 is
salt to test for silver. #2 she calls COTP nitric acid substitute,
says it is safer and cheaper than nitric, and can be sent 
in the mail, but she never says what it is-only that you can
always buy it from her. She says use a teaspoon full and she 
doesn't even send you that much in the bag. Bag #3 is some
kind of prills, never figured that one out either. Jim


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## aflacglobal (Aug 1, 2007)

$2000.00 from 6 cats

Considering i bought a new one about 2 years ago for $ 235 Give or take for the average i guess. That would be about $ 1400 dollars for 6 of them. Now how the hell am i going to get $ 2000.00 in preciuos metals from this. :lol: 

Did you read the thread link i posted above ? This is from an actual full scale refinery of converters. Note the problems and processes the large scale way. 

Rose ? Now i remember that goofy Name and now i remember where from.
I have run across her in my research ventures on and off. I think i put her right beside that shor thingy ma giggy on the top shelf beside the
plywood stretcher and right next to the sky hook. :shock: 

Yep !!! Right where i left it.


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## Cobraj (Aug 1, 2007)

Hi all,

Amounts of PT metals vary allot. If you bought an aftermarket CAT for your car (which that price sounds right) what you replaced your OEM CAT with is a converter that has almost half of the PT metals in it. OEM CATs are tested to pass with certain levels of emissions, aftermarkets are not as high of quality converter with less PTs. Aftermarket CATs are only tested out of the box not like an OEM CAT where they have to last 60,000 and some now 80,000 or the dealer needs to replace them at no charge!

I have examples of values I'm building in regards to PT metals in each CAT by date and manufacture. Like I said it varies alot from a GM, Ford, European, or Japanese vehicles. Aftermarkets have the least, then Ford, then Chevy, then Chrysler, then European, then Japanese. Then these also vary in size. 

I have had emails from refiners saying what the average payout is to a customer for 1000lbs of honeycomb material they process. Paying only for Platinum and Palladium one said “The spread is huge. Worth $15 to 80 a pound.” One other said, “We pay between $18,000. and $80,000 for 1000lbs of honeycomb.” This varied price is due to the type and make of the converter like I said above. If you have mostly aftermarket converters then you’re going to get less money out of it. If you have mostly European and Japanese converters then you would be in the higher payment area. 

Not all converters are alike or even close, some have more elements then others it all depended on what the manufacture had to put in them to get then to pass the test. European V-6 or V-8 will have the most PTs of all the converters.


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## aflacglobal (Aug 1, 2007)

Yeah i understand all your saying. No problem there.

I just want Her to pull 6 cats and show me $ 2,000 in metals. 

Money yes, That much, No.

I just don't believe it.


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## blueduck (Aug 1, 2007)

First Aflac

yeppers thats right she claims $2000 per 6 of the cats in her different ads and in some emails she sent my way...... and yes i read the amounts you posted which i suspect are correct..... and i have no way of knowing personally how much i can come up with in this venture yet, as ive been reading, and trying to beat the heat wave we had here the past few weeks by being up at night or early in the morning, and not trying to fall asleep with the 3 kids during the day..... so since i aint getting to bed til 1-3 am and i sleep in til 6-7 am i aint getting that early morning start right now.

Jim

From what i gather the "COPT" or crystal oxidizing testing protocol is the "purple prills" and is _potassium permanganate_ KMnO4 which used to be formulated 20% stronger and she says that to each pound or 454g one needs to add 113g of KNO3 [_saltpeter_ bought at the drugstore] to get it back up to strength and according to the booklet this is due to a recent court ruling that made the KMnO4 no longer able to be listed being for "personal use" under the Hazardous substances act, that it is now listed as a "non-personal use oxidizer. [probably becsuse of the the fact it is used in some very interesting formulas for things that go boom in the night or day providing "fireworks" for those who know what to mix it with.

now after reading again the descriptions in the booklet i get mixed information the way it is written, and cannot answer the question of what the 3rd bag is.... this is why i was disappointed, not for bad information, but for vague information...... and the intermixed jumping here and there and back again from testing to antidote to testing to scaling up to testing... using AR and not using AR, calling muriatic acid swimming pool additive and not HCL..... I spect that if I am thins confused maybe others are as well.... but like i said after reading various posts on this forum i have come to the conclusion that I can get it done, just maybe not in the same manner as is written in the booklet.... but I am willing to give the booklet method a fair try and trial.


William
Central Idaho


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## jimdoc (Aug 1, 2007)

William,
That is the problem with her info with me also-vague.
I commented to her about not being really clear with
her info in the book, and she had a comment that
started with "you men" and seemed kind of belittling.
If I was an expert I wouldn't have to buy her info, and
she seems to waste half of the pages in her "books" on
info that the reader could do without (goofy comments).
Thanks for the COTP info, her book has no mention of
what any of her samples are, that was my biggest problem
with her selling information, and leaving the reader having
to guess, especially about chemicals.

My guess on the 6 converters being $2000 worth of metal,
she must be talking about the very best BMW cats that buyers
are paying $225 each. That would be $1350 sold without even 
processing, so I can see those bringing $2000 worth of metal,
problem is try finding 6 of those converters to process. You are
going to come across a bunch of lower end converters, and those
are what these people should be giving you an idea of what you
will be getting from them, not ones you probably won't find.
Jim


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## blueduck (Aug 1, 2007)

Jim

Ok and now reading in another part of the booklet she states using DMG or dimethylglyoxime CH3C(NOH)C(NOH)CH3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylglyoxime will drop Pd...... 

But nowhere, and this is the biggest frustration in both the cat and tha plat book for me, can i find a resource readily for such powder.... in the cat booklet she says to do google search to find a huge crucible to roast the monolith in, now I have been around the internet block a few times, and used to be able to find things others were having trouble finding and find multiple itmes or information on unique subjects, but for the life of me i just cannot find the #12 2400 cc capacity crucible 8 1/8 h x 7 1/8, 5 1/6 od ive have searched and tried but no where can i can such a monkey on the net..... and i know someone out there has to still make the big ones......

Another thing i just noticed is that she shows pictures of her "furnace" using a GALVANIZED milk bucket [ok i grew up on a farm and admit i know first hand how to pull teats and get fresh milk] but does not mention that the more than 1100 degrees she is trying to get the thing up to temperature at will burn the galvanization off and if a person is anywhere near those fumes it is harmful to the lungs, and can hospitalize or even snuff a life of a person, not just a laboratory rat.... and i realize that common sense is suppose to kick in around things like that, but i have met far to many folks who just did not think about the things cause they seen it a picture and nothing was written converse to the subject..... 

I don't need to be spoon fed information, but the jumping around and having to re-read something to try and follow procedure has my brain on overload. Coupled with trying to study with my three kids under foot [not a bad thing either, but i have to devote attention to them or they are in to everything not under lock and key] I just end up setting the booklet down and starting over..... I dont have a chemistry background, though i had it in highschool 30 years back [i thought i was gonna try to be a veterinarian until the laws of banking hit me square in the farm] and i have been around various chemicals over the years just not in a lab. Ive been around a few miners who used some different methods to extract gold from their ore too, but alas, like the winds they have passed on and are no longer around to pick their brains [maybe i ought to get a set of younger friends but they tend not to know a thing i want to learn about].

William


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## Harold_V (Aug 1, 2007)

blueduck said:


> Jim
> 
> Ok and now reading in another part of the booklet she states using DMG or dimethylglyoxime CH3C(NOH)C(NOH)CH3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylglyoxime will drop Pd......



Pardon my jumping in here, but using DMG for precipitation is insane. 

Yes, it works, and quite well, but it's not cheap, and it's not convenient. The precipitate is hugely voluminous and difficult to handle. Converting to elemental palladium isn't an issue, it's easy enough to calcine the deep yellow pasty powder that results, it's just that there's so damned much of the stuff. I recommend you use DMG for testing, not recovery. 



> do google search to find a huge crucible to roast the monolith in, now I have been around the internet block a few times, and used to be able to find things others were having trouble finding and find multiple itmes or information on unique subjects, but for the life of me i just cannot find the #12 2400 cc capacity crucible 8 1/8 h x 7 1/8, 5 1/6 od ive have searched and tried but no where can i can such a monkey on the net..... and i know someone out there has to still make the big ones......



Chuckle!! :lol: 

Big ones? That crucible, in the scheme of things, is small. Size isn't your problem. Where you're looking is. You should be looking at foundry supply sources, which is where crucibles are commonly sold. They're made huge in size, at least up to a #400-----probably larger. 

Harold


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## jimdoc (Aug 1, 2007)

William,
I am glad to see I am not the only one frustrated with
her books. I found crucibles on Ebay, but that was a
few years ago after I bought her books. You need to look
into metal casting supplies to get bigger ones.
Have you ever checked out backyardmetalcasting;

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

there is alot of cool info on that site.

She used to tell you where you could buy the crucibles
but you had to buy a case of either 6 or 8. I guess she
didn't make any money on them so she leaves you to
google search for them now.

Harold is right about the DMG, he is the man to listen to 
when he speaks, for you will learn. I found DMG on Ebay but
haven't seen any on there lately. You should only use it
for testing, and use sodium chlorate for recovery. Action Mining
seems to have the best price for that, they have DMG also,
but like Harold said it is expensive. You should only need
a little bit for testing, it is good to have it when dealing with
palladium. Jim


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## blueduck (Aug 1, 2007)

Harold_V said:


> Pardon my jumping in here, but using DMG for precipitation is insane.
> 
> .......



by all means jump!!! I am merely a student [ok an old dog learning new trix] I have limited funds for learning, and am trying to figure out what just exactly is the best way to do things without going any farther overboard than I may have already gone...... Cause i believe a small scale operation can be worth while as more than a hobby for a person like myself who has nearly always been self educated and self employed..... and i dont like the motto "we do it right cause we do it twice".

after joining this forum and reading and beginning to learn again, I have considered going back to school to study metallurgy at the U of Idaho, but i have not figured out the reason why, or what i would do with such a degree at the age i would be when getting it..... [motivation i guess] besides they dont do the things i want to learn until the first part of year 4, maybe the last part of year 3..... so ive pretty much talked myself out of that for now and stayed the course of learning what i want on my own.....

As for foundry crucibles, such ought to come up in a search I would think if a person was looking with the right parameters but I guess whatever i put in just dont match much out there.... I found one place, budget casting supply that has a similar size to what i would like for what i am building.... but there ought to be more than one..... I will keep trying.

Thanks guys, for more than this thread!

William


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## Cobraj (Aug 1, 2007)

Hi all,

Like you said 6 CATs will not equal $2000 unless like you also said you have 6 Large BMW CATs. I saw that was a bit exaggerated.

Hearing about Megan selling this stuff to do the Cats now makes sense. I didn’t know she sold the chemicals to produce the product also. This is a little disheartening because her ad for this kit mentions no first or second parts of a kit, it does mention that this is a second edition which I took to be a revised version of a previous book that was made. It says it is complete. The wording is you get soup to nuts about how to get your product to look like the 12 grams or whatever she has in that bowl, on your own! I know I read in one of the emails that I would be provided 3 contacts that bought the PT metals and one of them would be Megan. I wonder how fair that price would be.

I will definitely need some questions answered later on; I hope you all don’t mind. 

Thanks everyone for your imput, keep it comin!!


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## Harold_V (Aug 2, 2007)

blueduck said:


> by all means jump!!!



OK-----jump I will-----but it's nothing new! (And you damned well may resent hearing it.)

Do you have a copy of Hoke's book?

If not, why not? 

Please do not tell me you can't afford one. Truth is, you can't afford to NOT buy one. It is, without a shadow of doubt, the best book going for a guy that wants to learn to refine metals. 

Please note that I make no claims as to its ability to carry you through extracting values from electronic scrap, or cats, but the principles of refining remain the same, regardless of the source. 

That book will teach you enough to become proficient at refining. You can master the rest by reading here, from guys that are doing it daily. 

In Hoke's book you will find the answers to everything you need to know to process gold, platinum and palladium. It's lacking in silver content, but that's not hard to learn----it has been well discussed on this forum, and there's a couple of us that can give you good, although often conflicting, advice. 

There are lots of idiotic suggestions made daily, here, as well as on other forums, and ebay, where you get the privilege of paying prices for everything. For the most part, people that post aren't knowledgeable about the subject matter-----but they are curious to a fault, and have lots of enthusiasm. Sometimes they're even a little dishonest and are trying to separate you from your money, regardless of the amount. You can spend an eternity following advice from such people, and still not know anything except for what doesn't work. 

Having said that, Hoke's book is none of that. It is a book that is virtually perfectly written for the novice, for it was intended to instruct low volume consumers of gold in ways to reclaim their waste materials. An understanding of chemistry isn't even required, for which I was eternally grateful. I have no schooling on the subject, yet managed to found and run a commercial refining business that enjoyed unexpected success. 

Get the book, and study it until you understand what it says. Get your hands dirty in small volumes until you are comfortable with what you're seeing and can predict results. You will come to understand the wisdom in my harping on the book. 

Harold

You near Pocatello?


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## catfish (Aug 2, 2007)

Hi Harold:

I finaly received my copy of C.M. Hoke's book, "How to refiine precious metals waste."

I spent most of the night reading it. I am impressed and now I wish I had odered it months ago. One of the most impressive parts of the book is that the writer lays it out in very simplistic terms as to where any one can undersand it.

I can see why you are abig advacate of Hoke. 

Thanks for the info,

catfish


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## blueduck (Aug 2, 2007)

Harold_V said:


> blueduck said:
> 
> 
> > by all means jump!!!
> ...



No i do not have Hokes book yet. Before joining this forum i knew nothing of Hokes book, and even after reading the virtues of her book i was at first hesitant to get a copy until i read more good reviews of it by you fellas that are recovering values daily and praise the volume so highly for beginners [from the many posts that ask beginner questions i figured it out that it must be a really well written treatise]. On to affording and not affording..... I got into a jam a few years back, and ended up in bankruptcy court and tryed my damnedest to save the 5 acres and house we were purchasing, the banksters did not want to play they seen i bought the place for about half of what it was at that time marketing for and just poked and prodded and continued on with a forecloseure sale outside the contract i signed..... ive been in the Idaho courts doing my own paperwork for the past 2.5 years [try holding a steady job and doing research and writing papers and attending hearings when theings are not going the way the rule book says they are supposed to go] finally after many months of near sleepless nights i finished my appeal paperwork in June only to have the final brief sent back for having the wrong color of paper on the front cover [i had a light yellow and it was supposed to be tan, ended up as cream cause even the fricking coopy shops that carry all colors for the lawyers dont have a printable tan in the poundage required by the Idaho supreme court] after the correction of the color of paper and the addition of a few words here and there, and submitting it in the mail i slept for about 2 days.... this past month i have been looking to get back into working at something [ergo the recovery of PGM's from cats due to the fact i have worked on on off for the local wrecking yard on semi-truck wrecks the past 19 years, mostly lumber roll overs] People dont want my sawmill service currently, even though a few are building they find it easier to get lumber from the building supply's..... My wife works at a steady job in advertising, manages storage units for a former boss, does hair at he funeral home once in awhile [she used to work there as secretary and the new lady wont touch dead folks hair] she teaches karate and kickiboxong a couple days a week to stay in shape [she is a former world champion kickboxer and retired professional boxer]..... so i take care of the 3 kids, 2 of which wil be going bak to school in 3 weeks, but daycare here for them is $9 per hour.... just about what the going rate for most work around Cetral Idaho is..... so i could work out, and pay more than i can bring in this summer for daycare... economically it sux.... needless to say we are behind in a couple things, have no credit cards though, just one car payment that because of a rig dying on my wife we had to keep her able to drive last winter and still be able to haul kids around or she could have stayed using my pick up...... but the cost of living goes up and the income levels have stayed the same.

A friend wants me to resaw a good portion of his material he has bought from tearing down old timber frame buildings, not a problem except i would have to purchase another type of saw mill, I had to turn down $150,00.00 contract from him last year when i culd not get the logs to saw [found the logs 4 months later but the contract was already filled] Ive been sawmilllling on and off for 21 years since buying my portable sawmill, the uniqueness has worn off, but my dad told me just yesterday that the reason recovering precious metal intrigues me is that it is not much different from taking a log and making lumber from it, taking a hunk of jewlery or computer scrap or ore body and getting out of it what is there that others either cannot or wont.... 

Broke i may be that is temporary, poor i am not for that is a state of mind.... the one thing i learned from listening to Ross Perot years ago.... before he ran for president of the corporation of the united states.

We struggle daily to make ends meet, yet I know more ways to make a fe dollars than most people ever think of... some of it takes more than i have to get the return that more than pays the investment off, I was hoping that my slight edge with the wrecking yard would be enough to get me in the door and going along with what information I purchased from Megan Rose, knowing i still had to set up certain things hopefully being able to scrounge some and used some second hand items too] and still knowing i had to buy some chemicals outright.... this is where this forum has proven beneficial in several charts and graphs and references that sorts things out in my mind..... but Hokes book is on my list to purchase. I sit with several thousand dollars in tools i have bought over the years out in the shop, useless until i sell them then i would need any given tool the next week and replacement is atrocious, i started a list a couple days ago after the neighbors garage was set afire by his girls and her friends [accident they say but i heard the fireworks going off, thought at first it was gunfire across the way up on the hillside about half a mile away, but the dog scrambled for the house which meant fireworks]... anyhow it was enlightening to make an actual list of the big items i know i had, but never wrote down cause they are out there waiting where i put them.... 

As far as where i am at I currently live on the Nez Perce Indian Reservation in Kamiah city limits, my property i am in court over is about 6 miles outside of town in a quiet little subdivision of what used to be like minded people tel the property values soared and they sold out. Pocatello is about 13 hours by road, and about 200 miles as the crow flys.... Idaho is one of the few states where you cannot get everywhere in short order, I live about 30 miles from a wilderness area that is bigger than some of the states back in the east.

I will survive, And i will end up with Hokes book, and i will end up with some sort of PG metals either sold or laying around collecting dust, cause i have started this venture and will see it out [mom sez it cause there is mule in my dads background but i think she was just funnin me years ago]

William
Central Idaho republik


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## lazersteve (Aug 2, 2007)

William,

Please check your Private Messages and reply to me accordingly.

Thanks,

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 2, 2007)

William,

I hope someone makes a photocopy of Hoke's book and sends it to you, gratis. My copy was stolen about 10 years ago or, I would do it.

I feel very sad for you in your situation. It's just further proof that no one owns their property, unless they have a land patent and are not part of the corporation, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA or, the corporation, THE STATE OF IDAHO or, any other governmental corporate agency, which are all written in all-caps. I even read that Wilson's first term was the last time we've had a president under the constitutional, The United States of America. Since then, they've all been presidents of the corporation, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Same with governors. Wouldn't surprise me, in the least.

Keep fighting.


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## Charlena (Aug 2, 2007)

And bless your awesome awesome determination William and know that you have really helped me with your story, it is exactly the kind of gratitude adjustment i've been needing and I'm excited for you and me now!
BOY I was in a apathetic YUK too! Thanks hun!
You ROCK!

Feel free to add me to your network of go to 's for what ever I can help ya with!

God I love this forum....^5 NOXX ya done good here kiddo! :!: :!:


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## aflacglobal (Aug 2, 2007)

Man i really do feel for you. I to have hit the skidds on ocassion or two. Hell i'm half way on one now. But i have come to find out that no matter how hard i think my life is , their is always some one who is worse off than me.

I don't see you as a quitter, so i'm guessing your going to come out alright. I know you probaly keep thinking when, Hell i do all the time. You would think that the odds of winning would eventually run in our favor.

But no matter what happens we get up the next day and do it again. We all do. This is what determines the i cans of the world from the i can'ts of the world. I'm sure everyone here on the forum will help in any way they can. That's one thing i love about this place. The human element side of it.

It's not about money or glory. It's about helping each other for the betterment of the cause. Be it gold, family, or life.

Good luck William. 

Ralph


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## Cobraj (Aug 2, 2007)

HI,

Well I didn't hear of Hokes book till now and I thank you for that! I will be buying it as soon as I can find it. Thanks Harold!


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## blueduck (Aug 2, 2007)

Everyone 
thank you for the words of encouragement, what I posted is just what has happened and it is my life and I live it every day the best I can and my family survives..... If there was quit in me, I would not have made it to the Idaho supreme court by myself, or actually with the support of my wife. Believe it or not I would not trade what has happened to me for a different life even at this point, for the knowledge I have gained is worth more than a so-called stress free life many think they lead.

As for help, you all have helped me in my search for knowledge more than words can put forth, Lazer_Steve has probably been more help than anyone else with his videos on his website, as just getting a visual on what someone else uses to get things accomplished and the colorations in the processes is a huge help in knowing what something ought to look like, that he has offered more than that for helping out is above anything I expected, mostly because i dont expect things from anyone to fall my way, I tend to give more of myself to others when possible.... The PDF books and the video that others have posted are also a help, some more than others, and reading through them makes me want to expand my hard copy library even more.

The world lost two people this year who were insignificant to most, but very good people to me, the first was my dad-in-law in february, he was a logger who was injured in 1992 and built an entire metal shop from books from Dave Gingery including a foundry, taught himself gun smithing including the old cold rust blueing [where i get my understanding of how to make nitric acid from scratch] and a patriot in the hardcore sense. The other fella passed a couple weeks ago, and was my mentor in the lawball game, he was born in the depression join the army when he was 15 and fought in Korea.... deserted and spent time in Lompac prison, owned the California mattress factory in the early 1960's and sold it for nearly half a million and moved to Idaho and became a logger.... above other things he was a thinker, and tinker, his dad was a gold miner and he taught me about gold, some about leaching, and a whole lot about the life most people never get to experience, He showed me where there is a safe in a river that 3 men stole in 1952 and more than likely it has the missing coins from the Panama Exposition that are so rare now...... this was all part of a lawsuit back in the early 1990's so it is public record.... his dad was one of the fellas who stole the safe, along with another fella who died in 1990 and owned the local brothel til the forest service took it away from him [the mustang ranch was not the first house that the government owned and operated] Jack was a safecracker and a character. But my mentor would have loved that i was getting into this recovery end of precious metals and would have been right here giving advice had he not gone blind from diabetes and the cancer taken away most of what he knew or at least the meds they gave him for the pain of bone, lung and brain cancer..... [he was logging where they were spraying agent Orange in the back country in the early 1970's, and had the symptoms of some of the soldiers from Viet Nam ive met over the years who were exposed to it] Knowledge is key to everything, and no matter what the world thru the evil perpetrators who think they are in charge of things try to take away, they can never take away knowledge unless through drugs. He too was a patriot, even though he had went awol and spent time in the pokey for it, The return of rightful government was his hope that one day would happen.... anyhow his knowledge is lost, as is the knowledge of my dad-in-law... both taught me metal working that i did not already know, both were self taught machinists and like them, I am about as independent as a person can get tht still has to rely on other s from time to time to get where I am going.

That I have happened upon this awesome group of folks is perhaps by chance, or fate or the will of Almighty God.... I cannot say, but a group of folks that have shown by their posts and actions they are a family of like minded individuals who care about what they do a a hobby or business and want others to share in it as well as far as recovery and refining goes.

I guess i cannot say it enough, you folks are great, and i appreciate the comments and thoughts and offers of help. I feel so not alone when I read what you all have written, and that GSP knows more than he lets on about the corporation I really feel at home.

I am just a GOAT [generalist of all trades] but when I take on a project I know I can do, I get it done as best I can and perfect my mechanics of it if possible to be as good as the best in the trade or business, for I was brought up that way of doing things.

William
Central Idaho


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## Cobraj (Aug 6, 2007)

Hi all,

Now I really need help! It seems that someone that knows Megan is on this board and forwarded her my post on this thread. To that person I say thanks for taking my post out of context. After waiting nearly 3 weeks to put the money together; then asking Megan to post it on Ebay again; then trying to buy it on the last day of the auction and it saying that the seller has prohibited me from buying this auction; then after an email to her on the last hour being able to buy it; then waiting nearly a week for the kit to show I receive a letter from the publisher stating that I have been refunded my $186.45 in full because “To me, this material (forum post)clearly indicates that you have purchased the wrong item.” I guess I need to believe her then. Sounds like an omen to me! 

Thank you, Harold, for posting about Hokes book I will now be looking for that. Jimdoc, thank you for sharing about Action mining selling a dvd on leaching with CLS. Thank you others I've surely forgotten. 

That being said I’m in a boat load of doom now with 6 CATs and 2 More on the way with nothing to do but look at them. What I wanted to do was process the CATs myself since a refiner doesn’t get or give you what they are worth, they have to make a buck too. 

Now I’m afraid of buying anything other than Hoke’s book and Action Mining DVD. What can I do to get started? Not getting that kit has my head spinning, maybe I better post after awhile.


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## blueduck (Aug 6, 2007)

CobraJ

Megan herself is a member of this forum but to my knowledge has not posted anything anywhere yet...... and she was not a member until i informed here about the forum around the middle of June after i became a member, lloking for anyone who anything bad/ negative to say about her books. actually searching on the internet on different forums i did not find anything at all to the negative, though the information suer highway system has many off ramps to get lost on and dead end and a person cant look through everything even with a good search engine. But only recently on this forum has anyone said anything negative other than one fella way back in March, and he was selling a machine so I personally took that as a neutral comment cause when you are selling something along similar lines you tend to pump up your product and downplay the others even if the others are better..... its called business.

After paying out over $300 for Megan's platinum recovery booklets, I am not unhappy, just frustrated that the information is not what I expected, and not as complete as a couple of other folks agree, as to the value, there is always value in books, and perhaps saving you $190 the publisher sent your money back because you did not purchase both the booklets needed to recover platinum that she / they sell.... I dont know and I can not say. But according to several of the fellas on this forum Hokes book is the one everyone needs, and a couple fellas that have the action mining DVD say it is good and you could build the system they sell for $8000 from the video and action minings parts they sell for replacement to do the leaching procedure.... I personally dont know. I have a few cats sitting here to get started with too that a friend took out of some cars he junked out this spring [one of the many reasons I went looking for a process to recover the scrap precious metal] and after finding this forum I have come to the conclusion that taking a deep breath and learning the process of gold recovery along side of the Pt, Pd and Rh recovery is the thing to do and thee guys [and gals] that are doing it already are the most helpful folks in the world when it comes to the new fellas..... It has vigorously made me think of returning to college in the metallurgical field or other such degree, though I really do not know what I would do with such a degree at this time and my age [44 currently and gradually aging daily]

Visit action mining website and use their toll free number and get their catalog sent to you cause the pdf version isnt bad to look at, but it takes awhile to load/save and i always found a hard copy better than an electronic one. And then look at www.minerox.com and call and ask for their catalog too, they both have similar books and some are less from one than the other.... and verse-visa. And i suspect there are other places out there where books are even less and some places more.... 

The one thing that Megans booklets do not tell you that is pertinent to the end result of having a bar of metal is that for the home hobbyist it is unlikely that they can melt the Pt powder, or the Pd powder into a solid chunk do to the high heat needed to do so, and this is why she would like to "bid" on your powders you would recover it is just another frustrating part of the lack of information presented in the form a person pays out for.... 

William
Central Idaho


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## Cobraj (Aug 6, 2007)

Hi all,

Thanks for the post BlueDuck. I just ordered from Action Mining at www.infomine.com. They had some stuff I was looking for at a good price. I bought a 3 part DVD set they have 

•VIDEO - 3 ITEM BUNDLE FOR CATALYTIC CONVERTER PROCESSING $199.00
Educational material necessary to fully understand the recovery procedures for PGMs. Includes: video "The Leaching Process of Catalytic Converter Material", video "Investigating & Understanding Fire Assaying", and book "CLS Leaching Manual".(S&H NOT INCLUD [...] 

and will buy next week (hopefully)

Refining Precious Metal Wastes $89.95
BY C M HOKE, HARD BOUND, 362 PAGES. REFERENCE MANUAL OF PROCEDURES, EQUIPMENT, SAFETY, AND TECHNICALITIES OF REFINING GOLD AND SILVER. FROM THE ADDITION OF COPPER AND ZINC FOR MAKING JEWELRY, GOLD ALLOYS, PLATINUM, AND ELECTROPLATING. DETAILED WITH DRAWING [...] 

Sounds like this will give me better information, but I have to save up for Hoke's book.


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## Cobraj (Aug 6, 2007)

Hi all,

Melting PT metals would be no problem for me because I have access to both Natural Gas/Oxygen setup and Hydrogen/Oxygen setup. These I believe are the 2 best ways to heat PT metals as far as I know. I don’t know the whole process yet but I will.


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## lazersteve (Aug 6, 2007)

CobraJ said:


> Refining Precious Metal Wastes $89.95
> BY C M HOKE, HARD BOUND, 362 PAGES. REFERENCE MANUAL OF PROCEDURES, EQUIPMENT, SAFETY, AND TECHNICALITIES OF REFINING GOLD AND SILVER. FROM THE ADDITION OF COPPER AND ZINC FOR MAKING JEWELRY, GOLD ALLOYS, PLATINUM, AND ELECTROPLATING. DETAILED WITH DRAWING



You can get it at

IPMI #1105

for $74 + shipping. Be sure to let them know Lazersteve sent you! :wink:

Steve


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## Harold_V (Aug 6, 2007)

Cobraj said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Melting PT metals would be no problem for me because I have access to both Natural Gas/Oxygen setup and Hydrogen/Oxygen setup. These I believe are the 2 best ways to heat PT metals as far as I know. I don’t know the whole process yet but I will.



The best possible way to melt these metals is with an induction furnace, which would likely be well beyond affordability unless you are involved in a business with considerable volume. You will find you're seriously limited as to the amount you can torch melt, although it is an acceptable way to melt the metals in small volume. Been there, done that. 

The other problem that no one seems to be addressing is selling the metals. While there is a market for the platinum group, it is not like the gold market, where you can get near spot price for your values. I would encourage you to explore the market and determine what buyers will pay before you get heavily invested in processing, only to find you're passing the values to the buyer instead of yourself. My experience when I sold a large lot of platinum left a great deal to be desired. I found every buyer I contacted to be less than honest, and, in the end, took a substantial loss.

Harold


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## P_CARROLL (Aug 6, 2007)

All I can say is Hokes book is better than Ammens for me and I have both.


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## Cobraj (Aug 6, 2007)

Hi all,

Thanks P-Carroll I will be getting that book next week. 

Harold, The best source for the sale of resins I found so far that pays for all 3 PT group metals resins they pay:

Platinum; 
89% of the value of the Platinum spot (based on the current market price determined on the date of completion of order) 3 to 12 days turnover.


Palladium: 
80% of the value of the Palladium spot (based on the current market price determined on the date of completion of order) 3 to 12 days turnover.


Rhodium: 
80% of the value of the Rhodium spot (based on the current market price determined on the date of completion of order) 3 to 12 days turnover.



89%,80%,80% doesn't sound to great but it is the best I saw so far. There are no other fees and they pay shipping costs. Does anyone else know of a better deal?


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## aflacglobal (Aug 6, 2007)

Now I really need help! It seems that someone that knows Megan is on this board and forwarded her my post on this thread. To that person I say thanks for taking my post out of context. After waiting nearly 3 weeks to put the money together; then asking Megan to post it on Ebay again; then trying to buy it on the last day of the auction and it saying that the seller has prohibited me from buying this auction; then after an email to her on the last hour being able to buy it; then waiting nearly a week for the kit to show I receive a letter from the publisher stating that I have been refunded my $186.45 in full because “To me, this material (forum post)clearly indicates that you have purchased the wrong item.” I guess I need to believe her then. Sounds like an omen to me! 

Alright, i see a cat fight coming here. One, who cares Megan. Two, if see pissed, good for her. Three, move over bacon, now their's something meatier.

I guess you can tell by my tone that i still don't care for some folks. Personally i don't even know the woman. But i have seen how she deals in here business and how she conducts herself when confronted with it.

Well i'd say they are starting to feel the pinch. Not the bite,but that little prick. You start to ask yourself well if they are giving it away, why would i buy it from megan ? This is where we become the threat. Let here act like a kid. I would expect no less. I think we had another scroundal like that on the forum not long ago. 

Rose i just one of the people who have taken advantage of people for far to long. Thier are a coule of others. One's in my sites. I think most know who that is. These people thrive at the control of information. Simple information at that. They take advantage of people to a criminal extent. Well if it ain't illegal, it should be. About like the medical profession. I understand cost and profit. I also understand the need to put value in that information or tecquinque. It is valuable. But come on people, $ 500 for some plasitic and graphite. Dam, i said it. Or how about $ 300,000 for a kidney. One that was probaly donated at that. Oh here's one. I give blood.
I get hurt and go to the hospital. They charge me for the blood. :shock: 
WTF. See somethings just don't make sense.

Why not be like gold bug or platinumills and show up and introduce yourself. Nooooooooo!!!!! Instead i am going to lurk in the shadows and act like a 3 year old. I'm laughing my ass off here. My god.

When i start getting feedback of this kind it just lets me know the screws are tighting and the vise is getting tighter. Let's me know i'm on the right track. :wink: 

Rock the boat, don't rock the boat baby.
Rock the boat, don't tip the boat over.

Actually i have had a good day. Thank you for asking.

ROCK ON GOLD REFINING FORUM.


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## jimdoc (Aug 6, 2007)

Wow, I guess I am on her "no sell to list" also.
Jim


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## blueduck (Aug 6, 2007)

I dont know about a no-sell list, but I sent an email over a month ago and got no reply, and i never posted anything at all about her books god, bad or indifferent at that time. It was a bout the time I offered whoever had the 200 oxygen sensors a quarter a piece if they shipped them to me..... even at that i might have been over stepping my boundaries of knowledge at the time, but i figured if a big company could offer that I could compete kinda.... but the fella did not take that as an offer..... and I took that price from another post that one of the fellas put up and in that they wanted a ton of the little units make a person wonder at that.

Anyhow I believe that as more hobbyists get into the PGM's the buyers will have to straighten up their acts, cause no one can suffer through a network of folks who post free information as to who does the best at price and honesty in the buying realm and scaling out. And though i prefer a face to face buyer, since I live in the middle of Idaho state, i know I will have to ship and trust the people I ship to not to take me on weight or price [been there done that with lumber, lost some really nice specialty wood to a buyer with a A-1 rating, cause i did not brand my wood... only once way back in 1994 but such has stuck in my craw ever since]. 

networking with like minded folks has its benefits for other reasons too.... and although I have always went by the standard "advice is worth what you pay for it" this particular forum is worth way more as the fellas giving the advice and help are truly informative and helpful...... for free.

William


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## jimdoc (Aug 8, 2007)

I have a question about an older Ebay post for info.
It was one of those information sellers about computer 
scrap that said that there is a certain hard drive that
has close to an ounce of gold in it. Does anybody know
what hard drive he was talking about? Just curious, not
curious enough to buy the info for , but I figured one of 
you may know. 
Jim


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## Harold_V (Aug 8, 2007)

An ounce of gold? My guess would be the ones you place your Maple Leaf in-----otherwise I'm not buying it. 

I say nonsense. This guy surely must be looking for suckers. 

If it got down to conductivity, silver is a better conductor, so it would be used for that purpose, and as far as I know, it's not. 

I can't imagine the need for a large volume of gold in such a device. Even guidance systems for military aircraft wouldn't have a high concentration of gold----in spite of the fact that some of the components are actually made of gold alloy (balance screws in the gyroscopes).

Harold


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## Charlena (Aug 8, 2007)

I have been a techie since 98 and I’ve never heard of such a thing either.

However I do recall back in the days of 2 ft x 1 ft (that’s a estimate only as its been darn near 20 years since I saw it but..) or bigger hard drive that before I even knew what a computer was I was still a scrapper and we came across a couple of these so called "hard drives" and I only knew they were hard drives because as we tore them open someone who knew about computers then was explaining how they work. BOY this thing was huge in comparison to that of even the XT!
I guess it was to a VERY large server or something. I remember having to lay it on the ground, mount it and use a huge ratchet to get the torque broken on the cover...I couldn’t believe how tight it was. These days I understand why that was. 
But anyways what I was getting at was that something like those are the only things I can think of that may possibly have anywhere close to that much gold in them. Based on the size and the fact that gold wasn't as expensive, technologies were very new and they may have been experimenting with such things...? Who knows...but now I’m interested in finding out!


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## jimdoc (Aug 8, 2007)

I think he said it was a chip/heatsink? I figured it 
must be some super rarity military or nasa item,
that the common person will never see anyway.
He mentioned it as a teaser to buy his info.
The load of computers and parts I got yesterday
had some different looking very old hard drives
in the parts boxes. that is what got me thinking
about what that guy stated again.
Thanks. Jim


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## Charlena (Aug 8, 2007)

jimdoc said:


> The load of computers and parts I got yesterday
> had some different looking very old hard drives
> in the parts boxes. that is what got me thinking
> about what that guy stated again.
> Thanks. Jim



Those really old MFM drives if that is what you mean ..can be very valuable at times. Look em up for kicks before you do anything with them. Ive seen them sell at times for 100-200 dollars . Vintage computing is sooooo weird that way. Heck a couple years ago if you had an old "clicky" keyboard brand new in the box, you know those really old early keyboards that everyone swore by that made that clicky sound when hitting the keys? 1000 dollars and sometimes more for a new one...and even an old beat up one missing keys and all dirty brought you 500. I dunno what that trend was all about but it didnt last long. made me sooo mad...I must of had truckloads of those old dinasours and I got rid of them because I was tired of hearing from everyone.."what in the heck are you ever gonna do with that old thing???" well I sure made sure they SAW the things selling for 500 bucks no matter what condition when it was going on! I'm now ignoring those voices when they start in on me.


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## jimdoc (Aug 8, 2007)

Charlena,
There was a few of those mfm drives, they are in pieces already.
There was an older one that was twice as thick as those, that is in \pieces already also. I will have to check it for a name or identification.
The clicky keyboard thing is also news to me. I have probably scrapped a bunch of them, even new in the box ones. You never know about the value of anything untill you check it out.
Thanks. Jim


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## lazersteve (Aug 8, 2007)

I can't imagine a hard drive cpu or board containing an ounce of gold. I have several very old hard drives on hand. Here's some photos:

[img:582:1134]http://www.goldrecovery.us/images/oldhdd.jpg[/img]

These have date codes from 89-91. They are twice as thick as 'normal' drives.

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 8, 2007)

Steve, how much gold do you think is in them?


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## lazersteve (Aug 8, 2007)

Chris,

I don't like to speculate on unknowns such as these critters. I'm sure it's not much. Proper tests would be the only way to confirm the correct figures.

The platters are coated with ferric oxide in these old drives, no gold, no platinum. I assume the chips and pins are more or less about the same as standard plastic pack chips and header pins. 

The only items on these boards I can think of that may have higher precious metals content than todays components are the surface mounted parts. These drives were made back before the newer fabrication technologies emerged for SMD's. Thus the monolithics would likely contain both gold and platiunum, some were even made with palladium end contacts. 

Maybe one day I'll get around to providing an accurate answer to this question.

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 8, 2007)

Just a total guess, off the top of your head, in the form of a range. Your guess would probably be closer than anybody else's. Any information is better than no information.


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## lazersteve (Aug 8, 2007)

Chris,

If I had to pull some numbers out of the hat I'd guess that a pound of the *plastic ics* from these boards would yield a gram of gold. Also 500 grams of the old monolithics could conceiveably produce 1g Pd, 1g Au, and 1/2g Pt or more. Probably some silver and ruthenium too.

These numbers are just guesses based upon my experience with this type of scrap and should not be considered hard figures by anyone. I could be way off. Milspec equipment would also provide higher yields.

Steve


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## jimdoc (Aug 8, 2007)

I had a few that looked like the ones in Steve's pictures.
The biggest one was a Seagate ST-4038. Here is a link to
a website selling one for $175. I know there isn't that much
precious metals in there. I should have checked this stuff out
before I rip stuff apart. You don't think a 32mb hard drive should
be worth anything but scrap, but you never know.

http://www.aacomputech.com/aacomp-bin/web_store/web_store.cgi?product=MFM_RLL&cart_id=5527510_74571

http://www.mbiusa.com/mbi_000041.htm

There is no picture on that site, but this page has a picture of it;

http://paulaxford.com/computer_collection/pc_comps.htm

I guess everybody should remember to check the older stuff for
collectors value before you rip them apart.
Jim


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## Charlena (Aug 8, 2007)

I will wait till you make the "how and how much to recover from old MFM drives" DVD


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## Charlena (Aug 8, 2007)

jimdoc said:


> I had a few that looked like the ones in Steve's pictures.
> The biggest one was a Seagate ST-4038. Here is a link to
> a website selling one for $175. I know there isn't that much
> precious metals in there. I should have checked this stuff out
> ...



YES everyone please check into stuff before you rip into it. You will be amazed at how much some of the vintage stuff sells for. Just do a basic "vintage computer" search on ebay. then look at the completed sales items. Some of that stuff you'de never ever guess to sell at what it does. Thats all I do is collect old hardware and do research on it. Im pretty dang good at it now. 
Pays off too
I just sold 16 old dinasuaric motorola cell phone modem thingies that were way obsolete, new but so old people would laugh at you if you asked them to buy them. I sold them for over 1000 bucks. I think it was like 1250 plus shipping.  oh and my costs? 0 my time and labor in retrieving them...housing them. but all in all it was 100% profit. Hey I see an ebook on ebay in my future! LMAO NOT


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## aflacglobal (Aug 8, 2007)

Hey I see an ebook on ebay in my future! Is that you Rose :?: 

:shock: :shock: :shock:


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## Cobraj (Aug 9, 2007)

Hi all,

The question of hard disks having Platinum is Yes, they do but the newest ones made today have 35% platinum in the fine coating on the disk. Today and disks from say 3 years ago have 35% Platinum. It is a Platinum/Cobalt alloy, the reason it’s used is for its magnetic properties which increases the amount of data that can fit on the disk. I have never assayed any but plan to down the line. 


Info, there is more online:

*Hard Disks

Platinum coated computer hard drive disks. 
Click on image to enlarge or order. Platinum and data storage
The need for modern computers to store very large amounts of information has brought a rapid increase in the use of platinum to improve the data storage capacity of hard disks. The first hard disk drive, introduced by IBM in 1957, used fifty disks, each measuring 24 inches in diameter, to store just 5 megabytes of data. Nowadays, PC hard disks are available which can store 125 gigabytes (125,000 megabytes) of data, and capacity is increasing all the time. Manufacturers aim to continually reduce the average number of hard disks in each drive, so technology which can offer denser data storage is eagerly sought after. 

Inside a hard disk
A hard disk drive looks and operates much like an old fashioned record player. Information is recorded and retrieved by a magnetic head mounted on a moveable arm, which hovers over a rapidly spinning disk. Each drive contains one or more disks; the disks in desktop PCs are usually made of aluminum, whereas high quality glass is often used for disks in laptop computers. 

The disks are coated with a cobalt based alloy which has magnetic properties. This magnetic layer stores individual pieces of data, or "bits", in a series of circular tracks. The amount of data which can be recorded on a given surface area depends largely upon the strength of the field generated by the magnetic layer. Adding platinum enhances the magnetic qualities of the cobalt alloy, enabling data to be stored at higher densities and improving access times. 

All disks contain platinum
Information storage requirements continue to expand at rapid rates, fuelled by the growing use of computers for video and audio applications. Today, all hard disks contain platinum in their magnetic layers, compared with around 50 per cent in 1997. The proportion of platinum in the magnetic alloy has been increasing steadily over time, from less than 10 per cent five years ago to over 35 per cent, on average, today.*


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## badastro (Aug 9, 2007)

Some of the newest hard disk platters contain atom thick layers of ruthenium...

Regardless, there is one ebook on ebay that discusses how to deplate platters in "minutes". I don't know how good the information is, but it seems to be unique.


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## Charlena (Aug 10, 2007)

Cobraj said:


> Info, there is more online:
> 
> *Hard Disks
> 
> b]*


*
can you please post a link to that info hun?
thanks!*


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## Cobraj (Aug 10, 2007)

The big guy 

http://www.platinum.matthey.com/applications/harddisk.html


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## aflacglobal (Aug 10, 2007)

J.M. >>>>> :shock: :evil:


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## Cobraj (Aug 10, 2007)

LOL, alot of info on that site. 8)


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## Buzz (Oct 19, 2007)

Hi All,

I think the guy claiming you could get nearly an ounce of Gold from a single chip was probably going on about one of these.

Click Here

I saw one on eBay last year and it went for about $170 i believe.

Regards
Buzz


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## Buzz (Oct 19, 2007)

In fact there's a few on eBay at the moment.

Check out this seller:

Click Here

Regards
Buzz


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 19, 2007)

Buzz,

Those long links sure make the page impossible to read, with all of the horizontal scrolling that is needed. The links can be renamed and thereby shortened. I needed to do that once and Steve showed me how. Here's the link on how to do it:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=368


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## Buzz (Oct 19, 2007)

Test

Click Here

It works!
I always wondered how you did that.

Cheers PSG (and Steve)

Buzz


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## Buzz (Oct 19, 2007)

oops GSP even....sorry


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 19, 2007)

It works! Pretty neat, huh. Now, can you edit your previous posts to shorten the long links? We've all been through this.


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## Buzz (Oct 19, 2007)

All done, thanks for your help! 

Buzz


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## aflacglobal (Dec 24, 2007)

Ebay guides. Now here's one for Megan Rose.

Check out the addresses for her quote publisher.

Pen Press PO Box 232 Durkee, Oregon 97905-0232
Or
Pen Press
PO Box 321
PARMA, ID 83660-0321

No physical addresses. ?????? Small p.o. box #'s.

Now lets see about this. :arrow: 
Profitable Recycling Made Easy, by Nancy Stone 
Queen of scrap metal recycling, 
Nancy takes the mystery out of the "recycling leftovers"
after the gold, silver, platinum, and palladium have been recovered.
Those scrappy leftovers will make you a tidy sum as well.>>> http://members.aol.com/origppress/advntool.htm

Oh, i just love this. :twisted: :twisted: :arrow: Pen Press, (208) 722-7722
10AM - 3PM MOUNTAIN Time Zone Please; Monday - Friday and some Saturdays
If it rings, let it ring a few; sometimes takes Nancy Stone (office mgr) a while to get to the phone.

OMG, is she for real. The quote: Queen of scrap metal recycling answering phones.    This is just to much.

And the best part. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: I'm an old-timer, I Prefer Cash, Money Order or Cashier Checks in US Funds. 
Shipping for personal checks (US ONLY) will be held 2-3 weeks.
No credit cards, no paypal. Just send cash, checks or money orders.
http://members.aol.com/origppress/ordrinfo.htm

Sure i will.

And this :arrow: 
For approximately $20 in cost, you can recycle gold. Even less expensive, you can nibble gold and sell it to the author

No problem Miss Rose, I trust you.

Oh and check out her Gold Nibbler cd. 

Note that she is pushing a pamplet about recovery from Capicators and other sources of electronic ic's. Huuuummmmmm.

This is just something i ran accross. The real fun is yet to come. 

Stay Tuned. :wink:


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