# Time for a competition



## anachronism (Feb 15, 2019)

Time for a competition.

Rules: You get to ask your questions BEFORE you provide your answers. Once you put your answers in it's too late to ask again and you get one shot. 

So now we have that out there here goes.

Here's a bag of 660 fuzzies. 

Questions are as follows:

1. How long did it take (in hours) to get the gold into solution.
2. How many litres of solution did it take to get these into solution.
3. How much gold did I get? 
4. How many litres of overall waste were generated? That includes solution, washing, everything.

I'd recommend asking a lot of questions BEFORE making your bids here guys. Let's have some fun. 

For the record: A member already has all the answers and will not be guessing, that way it's all clear and transparent.


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## denim (Feb 15, 2019)

I guess I'll ask 'what process did you use to recover the gold?'

Dennis


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## anachronism (Feb 16, 2019)

denim said:


> I guess I'll ask 'what process did you use to recover the gold?'
> 
> Dennis



AR Dennis.


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## cosmetal (Feb 16, 2019)

Jon,

Forgive my "newbie-ness". Can you be a little more specific regarding what "fuzzies" are? :? 

James


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## acpeacemaker (Feb 16, 2019)

Brought back the memory of taking a 5 lb bag of those and used an "all" a sharp needle hole punch. Poking each individually out. I must of had too much time on my hands back then...

Did you presoak before ar or just straight or any process of getting rid of plastics?


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## Dr.xyz (Feb 16, 2019)

Info for noobs: https://www.custominterconnects.com/fuzzbuttons.html


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## cosmetal (Feb 16, 2019)

Dr.xyz said:


> Info for noobs: https://www.custominterconnects.com/fuzzbuttons.html



Cool . . . thanks Dr. X!

James


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## anachronism (Feb 17, 2019)

acpeacemaker said:


> Did you presoak before ar or just straight or any process of getting rid of plastics?



Straight into AR- the AR leaves the plastic alone 8) 

Jon


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## niks neims (Feb 17, 2019)

anachronism said:


> acpeacemaker said:
> 
> 
> > Did you presoak before ar or just straight or any process of getting rid of plastics?
> ...



Yeah, but you probably needed to rinse the plastic off afterwards, with the rinse waters probably needing to be evaporated down before adding to the decanted AR solution...

Anyway that is a lot of math to do, does the name "competition" implies there is a prize involved :shock: ?

my questions would be
1. What was the C0 of AR - did you warm it up or just left it to sit in a room temperature?
2. What was your chosen method of precipitation?
3. I've heard there could be Beryllium in fuzzies, was there any type of second refining involved or just straight one time recovery cycle with AR?


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## anachronism (Feb 18, 2019)

Hi Nik

The rinse waters don't need any evaporation so factor that into to the requested volumes.

Sure there's a prize. Knowledge 8) 8) 

1. Roughly 70 degrees C
2. SMB
3. The fuzzies we had here showed no Be, and it was a one step refine straight to 99.9% pure gold.


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## denim (Feb 18, 2019)

I'll take a stab at the answers.

1.) 5 hours
2.) 14 liters
3.) 8 grams
4.) 14 liters

Probably way off, we'll see.
Dennis


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## anachronism (Feb 18, 2019)

Whether its close or not Dennis you took a shot. 8) 8) 

Thanks for that 

Jon


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 18, 2019)

Since I have over 100 of these as well, I'm just waiting for the answer!


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## MGH (Feb 18, 2019)

silversaddle1 said:


> Since I have over 100 of these as well, I'm just waiting for the answer!


100 pounds :!: :?: :shock:

Or 100 squares?

Knowing you, silversaddle, it could be either one


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## bigpagoda (Feb 18, 2019)

Did you process all 660 pieces in one batch?


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 18, 2019)

MGH said:


> silversaddle1 said:
> 
> 
> > Since I have over 100 of these as well, I'm just waiting for the answer!
> ...



No, just 100 pcs. If I had 100 pounds, I'd know the answer!


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## anachronism (Feb 19, 2019)

bigpagoda said:


> Did you process all 660 pieces in one batch?



Yes I did.


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## anachronism (Feb 19, 2019)

silversaddle1 said:


> Since I have over 100 of these as well, I'm just waiting for the answer!



Well I'd rather the yield per item wasn't slapped all over eBay.


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## g_axelsson (Feb 19, 2019)

This will be fun! 

After doing some in debt research (reading Jon's old posts) I would hazard a guess of 72.6g of gold, but let's get formal here...



anachronism said:


> 1. How long did it take (in hours) to get the gold into solution.
> 2. How many litres of solution did it take to get these into solution.
> 3. How much gold did I get?
> 4. How many litres of overall waste were generated? That includes solution, washing, everything.



Here are my answers :
1. 3.5 hours
2. 9.8 liters of AR solution
3. 72.6 g
4. 22 liters of waste

Without any motivations. :mrgreen: 

And I have a question for you, but it will not affect my answer. :wink: 
How did you test for beryllium in the fuzz buttons?

Göran


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## Shark (Feb 19, 2019)

g_axelsson said:


> This will be fun!
> 
> After doing some in *debt* research (reading Jon's old posts) I would hazard a guess of 72.6g of gold, but let's get formal here...
> 
> ...



Sorry that just struck me as very funny and I couldn't resist it, :lol: 

Even though I know "spell check???" can do weird things at times.


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## anachronism (Feb 19, 2019)

g_axelsson said:


> Here are my answers :
> 1. 3.5 hours
> 2. 9.8 liters of AR solution
> 3. 72.6 g
> ...



Aha! OK I have an XRF and had no Be in the ones I tested. Admittedly I didn't test all 660 of them, but I tested them by type.


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## g_axelsson (Feb 19, 2019)

Follow up question... can you detect Be with your XRF? I had the impression that the window of the detector usually is made of Be because it is more or less transparent to X-rays and Be is a too light element to be easily detectable by XRF.

In debt ... in depth ... okay, English isn't my first language but I should have spotted that one.  :lol: 

Göran


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## anachronism (Feb 20, 2019)

Sure does. Beryllium/Copper alloy is one of the non PM presets too.


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## goldandsilver123 (Feb 20, 2019)

anachronism said:


> Sure does. Beryllium/Copper alloy is one of the non PM presets too.



I assume you have a XRF gun and what I think your EDX do is see ~97% copper and nothing else, then it knows the other element is Beryllium.

Beryllium is only readable in high power (4 kW x ray tube) WDX spectrometers, and "For beryllium analysis by XRF spectrometry, surface treatment is essential."

Beryllium Analysis in Beryllium Copper Alloy:
https://www.rigaku.com/en/products/xrf/primus2/app5028


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## anachronism (Feb 20, 2019)

OMG!! I might be wrong - damn that's so heinous. 8) 8) 8) I don't think I can survive the shame lads but I'll do my best. 

Now did you want a guess in the competition Goldandsilver123?


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## g_axelsson (Feb 21, 2019)

Jon, it's not about being right or wrong or even rubbing it in your face... though, the last part is fun. :lol: 

When the XRF is analyzing a copper beryllium alloy it assumes any missing x-rays is caused by the beryllium. Anything out of the normal beryllium copper alloy will probably confuse the instrument. Add to that the gold plating and I would expect the XRF to try to match the signal seen to a copper gold alloy instead.

I know you are careful and is handling the waste with respect, so I'm writing this both for your sake and anyone else that follows this thread. Don't rely on an XRF to tell you that there is no beryllium in electronic scrap. If you suspect that there is beryllium there, thread carefully and treat any solution as if it does have beryllium in it.
We are creating toxic solutions anyhow, so it shouldn't be a big problem even if we dissolve any beryllium. We dissolve lead all the time and huge amounts of copper when we hunt for the yellow metal.

Göran


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## anachronism (Feb 21, 2019)

Hey I'm good Goran hence the emojis. 

I don't have a problem with being wrong. It means I've learned something 8)


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## rickzeien (Feb 21, 2019)

Dr.xyz said:


> Info for noobs: https://www.custominterconnects.com/fuzzbuttons.html


Yes. Thanks for the link!

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


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## g_axelsson (Feb 21, 2019)

Jon, I know you can take it or I wouldn't rub it in your face.... also using emojis :mrgreen: 

I've just ordered a new passport, so when you least expect it I might drop in and give your XRF a run for it's money. :wink: 

Göran


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## crbaker41 (Feb 21, 2019)

4 hrs
10.3 liters
65.8 gr
16 liters waste


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## snoman701 (Feb 21, 2019)

2.5/6/86/10


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## Dr.xyz (Feb 22, 2019)

Looks like a trick competition.

Why use liters of solution when amount of metal won't require that much? Why immerse all material at once, most of it is plastic and increases volume unnecessarily?


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 22, 2019)

I will collect the most importan*t* prize here anyway ;-) 
in the increased knowlegde department 

But let me just ask one question:
Was the whole lot simultaneosly immersed into solution during recovery?

Edited for spelling :shock:


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## g_axelsson (Feb 22, 2019)

Dr.xyz said:


> Looks like a trick competition.
> 
> Why use liters of solution when amount of metal won't require that much? Why immerse all material at once, most of it is plastic and increases volume unnecessarily?


How do you suggest getting the metal fuzz buttons out of the sockets?

Time is also money if you have employees, in some cases it's cheaper to use a bit more chemicals instead of labor.

Göran


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## anachronism (Feb 22, 2019)

Dr.xyz said:


> Looks like a trick competition.
> 
> Why use liters of solution when amount of metal won't require that much? Why immerse all material at once, most of it is plastic and increases volume unnecessarily?



Not trick at all Sir. If you want to spend days taking the metal out of the connectors then be my guest- I've done it before and I'm never going back there after the time it took.

Any guess to make?


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## anachronism (Feb 22, 2019)

Yggdrasil said:


> I will collect the most importan prize here anyway ;-)
> in the increased knowlegde department
> 
> But let me just ask one question:
> Was the whole lot simultaneosly immersed into solution during recovery?



Nope they were done in batches in the same liquid. 8) 8)


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 23, 2019)

Please elaborate a bit, because now I'm confused 


> anachronism wrote:
> February 19th, 2019, 10:58 am
> 
> 
> ...


And then later 


> anachronism wrote:
> February 23rd, 2019, 1:08 am
> 
> 
> ...



Which one is it?
One batch or multiple?
I'm sorry if I seem peristent here, but you opened the "bag" ;-)


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## Dr.xyz (Feb 23, 2019)

That's just what I was meaning too.

So you did not use a big vessel with all material at once and a lot of solution?

Of course there's no need to remove buttons from plastic mechanically, just a splash of AR and they dissolve and/or fall off on their own pretty quickly. Then replace empty holders with full ones, smaller batches, less solution.


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## anachronism (Feb 23, 2019)

I said one batch. As in all 660. I didn't say all at once in one jar of liquid. 

This is a language thing.


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 23, 2019)

I'll have to agree on the language issue here  Check under my posts  
My understanding of batch is all in one.
There may be many batches in one job, so let us leave it at that, since I know how it was done now.
Thanks for the clarification Jon


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## anachronism (Feb 23, 2019)

Thanks Ygg.

Xyz feel free to make an educated guess.


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## Dr.xyz (Feb 23, 2019)

Hold your horses a little while longer, I'm going to think about this over the weekend. This is dead serious.

:lol:


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## bigpagoda (Feb 23, 2019)

This is killing me. I've never done the "fuzzies" before so I can't really guess but I want to know!!!! Hope you took pictures.


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## snoman701 (Feb 23, 2019)

In that case it’s 3 liters...1 leech 2 rinse then a few days


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## Shark (Feb 23, 2019)

bigpagoda said:


> This is killing me. I've never done the "fuzzies" before so I can't really guess but I want to know!!!! Hope you took pictures.



Ditto, me too, and I can't wait to find out myself.


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 24, 2019)

Well here it comes.
My totally uneducated guesstimate  :mrgreen: 

1.) 4h (Leach only)
2.) 3 l (2.5-liters + addition used 6 rounds, I don't know much about fuzzies size, weight or such)
3.) 36.3 g (I didn't dare going higher, since I don't expect Jon to be in kahoots with Merlin in the alchemy division) 
4.) 10 l (rounded from 9 liters (2 washes times 3 liters + leach liquor))

I guess I have to give my 2 cents to contribute to the fun :lol:


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## Platdigger (Feb 24, 2019)

3h/4L/70g/8L


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## kurtak (Feb 25, 2019)

Ok I will take a stab at it :mrgreen: 

3 h
4 L
80 g
7 L

Kurt


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## anachronism (Feb 25, 2019)

Dr.xyz said:


> Hold your horses a little while longer, I'm going to think about this over the weekend. This is dead serious.
> 
> :lol:



Just waiting for your numbers then I'll close this one off and post the results.


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## rickzeien (Feb 25, 2019)

Not an educated guess, just for grins.
4 hours
1 liter
64 g
3 liters


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## markscomp (Feb 25, 2019)

how much did the fuzzies weigh if the fuzzies could weigh fuzzies?
serious what was weight of just fuzzies ? no bag or container?


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## markscomp (Feb 25, 2019)

oh yeah and were the springs removed?


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## anachronism (Feb 25, 2019)

markscomp said:


> how much did the fuzzies weigh if the fuzzies could weigh fuzzies?
> serious what was weight of just fuzzies ? no bag or container?



No idea I didnt bother weighing them. I counted them as per the initial description. The way I did them is in that too Mark.


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## markscomp (Feb 25, 2019)

was heat applied to solution?


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## markscomp (Feb 25, 2019)

my best guess 

close to 4 hours into sol.
1 gallon or enough to cover the material which depends on the container 3800 ml? 
63 g or roughly 2,250 ppm based on roughly 6.5 lbs of material
1.5 gal of waste material or 5700 ml or 1.5 times the amount to cover the material

I get by with a little help from my friends 

audited by the law firm of Dewey, Cheatem and Howe LLP


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## Dr.xyz (Feb 25, 2019)

OK, revelation time.

1) One working day.
2) 1l (or less if you are good)
3) 70.1g
4) 2l (or less if you are good)


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## anachronism (Feb 26, 2019)

Dr.xyz said:


> OK, revelation time.
> 
> 1) One working day.
> 2) 1l (or less if you are good)
> ...



If I'm good? *chuckles* Right ho. 

What about trade offs? Yes it could be possibly done in under a litre however it would take far longer and be less time efficient- and I'm not sure that this would make it "being good."

So the trade off is to get a balance between volume and time and in my humble opinion achieving that balance is the "good" bit rather than just achieving one piece of the picture.


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## anachronism (Feb 26, 2019)

Hi guys

Results time (with explanations)

1. How long did it take (in hours) to get the gold into solution. 2 hours 20 minutes from prepping the beakers to finishing the dissolve.
2. How many litres of solution did it take to get these into solution. 5.8 litres (see below)
3. How much gold did I get? 82.2g of gold. 4 x 9 on first drop and clean using Dean's method of washing.
4. How many litres of overall waste were generated? That includes solution, washing, everything. 7.1 litres including water washes.

Notes:

I ran this in premixed AR- initially each beaker contained 2 litres HCL, 0.5 litres water, and 200 ml of HNO3. The temperature was built up to, and ran at approx 70 degrees C. 

The balance I was looking for was to get the product dissolved in quick time in a reasonable volume of liquid. It was more of a commercial approach where time is money rather than one where there was all the time in the world. 

Pic of the filtered pregnant AR ready to drop is below. Thanks everyone for taking part. 

Hmm who was closest guys?


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## MGH (Feb 26, 2019)

Hi Jon,

That's very cool, and a nice yield. Thanks for sharing.

Now where did I put that bag of fuzzies... oh, yeah... I don't have one


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 26, 2019)

Time to count my fuzzies up! I had thought that the last time these were discussed on the forum everyone concluded that the yields on these were outstanding, some claims too good to be true. I have to ask, did you re-weigh the plastic to try to find out what just the fuzzies weighed?


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## denim (Feb 26, 2019)

I knew yields were good for fuzzies but didn’t think they were that good. Thanks Jon!
Dennis


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## anachronism (Feb 26, 2019)

silversaddle1 said:


> Time to count my fuzzies up! I had thought that the last time these were discussed on the forum everyone concluded that the yields on these were outstanding, some claims too good to be true. I have to ask, did you re-weigh the plastic to try to find out what just the fuzzies weighed?



Nope because I'm only interested in the gold, not what I can sell them for.


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 26, 2019)

I'm not selling mine either, I'll have them refined.


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## Dr.xyz (Feb 27, 2019)

Way too much volume, I am so disappointed...  

Better than expected yield, tho.


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 27, 2019)

Thanks for the numbers Jon  
The yields are way over what I would have expected, deep into what I would have called "the Alchemy division" before this.
So now I have a serious problem, I really want to find some of these


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## anachronism (Feb 27, 2019)

Dr.xyz said:


> Way too much volume, I am so disappointed...
> 
> Better than expected yield, tho.



What are you disappointed with? Excuse me but comments like this don't sit well with me. Please explain your thinking.


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## snoman701 (Feb 27, 2019)

Dr.xyz said:


> Way too much volume, I am so disappointed...
> 
> Better than expected yield, tho.



I'm really quite impressed with the lack of waste...more specifically, the lack of rinse waste.


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 27, 2019)

Yggdrasil said:


> Thanks for the numbers Jon
> The yields are way over what I would have expected, deep into what I would have called "the Alchemy division" before this.
> So now I have a serious problem, I really want to find some of these



Older Sun servers and random old IBM servers.


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## anachronism (Feb 27, 2019)

Yep as Silversaddle rightly pointed out- the servers with these in are rare now.


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## Yggdrasil (Feb 27, 2019)

That is just what I expected, well I just have to count then jumping over a fence after bedtime then.
I guess thats the closest I will get to them


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 28, 2019)

Yggdrasil said:


> That is just what I expected, well I just have to count then jumping over a fence after bedtime then.
> I guess thats the closest I will get to them


 
Oh, I don't know about that. They are still out there. In fact, we just scrapped about 4300 pounds of them about a mouth ago, came from a regular customer who had shut down a small comm site. It's kind of a crap shoot as some have the good fuzzie connectors and some have a newer, cheaper type.


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