# The Seawater Pipedream



## Long Shot (Nov 4, 2014)

One can learn a lot from others if they are willing to do two things. Shut up and listen, especially if you have asked a question or two. This doesn't mean you have to agree with or believe everything you hear. What it does mean is that if you have asked a question and don't like the answer you should not get arrogant and tell the person they are wrong or worse yet, rude because of the way the question was answered. My experience on this forum is that knowledge and good advice are freely given from very wise people. If one does not want to take that into consideration then one is free to either move on and try it their way or, in a tactful way, challenge what they have been told, and that may come from previous beliefs or formal education or experience. I don't think most here mind a challenge to what they have said and may, in fact, enjoy a debate on any given view on a subject. The point of all of this is that some people are extremely arrogant, bullheaded, ignorant or just plain stupid when it comes to some things.

Enter the post about the electrical engineer who wanted to extract Au from seawater. This post was a textbook example of the above. I hate to judge a book by it's cover but sometimes the introduction tells what the whole book is going to be like and you really don't have to read the book to know what is inside. My interpretation of the introduction is a rich (he didn't need anyones money), arrogant (probably comes from huge money and has never been told no), self centered (he was and is right and everyone else is wrong or rude), egotistical (goes along with right and rude), and fairly ignorant dude (claims to have a high degree of education but has to question reasonably basic electrical theory of which he should be a first rate expert). At the risk of offending engineers here on this board I do have to cite my experiences over the years. I have worked in tech for many years and have been exposed to and worked for directly or indirectly, engineers of various disciplines. There seems to be three types - the incompetent, the calm and wise and the young, arrogant, know it all type. You don't need to say much about the incompetent, they just are and they stumble through life going job to job and hopefully don't make decisions that get people killed. The calm and wise - mine and everybodies favourite, they will listen to what your take is on something, have a reasonable fact based debate on the subject, may let you try it your way (and are man or woman enough to admit your way is better and go with it) or may not (after all it is their ass on the line) but don't yell and scream or stand over your shoulder and generally get a good, competent result accomplished. A lot of this has to do with a good attitude and knowing one can catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar. Then you have the young, arrogant, know it alls. I've only worked with two of these guys and our seawater man would be a mirror image of them in my humble opinion. The first of the two, let's call him PJ, was so bad that I saw several well seasoned tradesmen just put down their tools and walk away when he started to shoot his mouth off. I was really surprised that he didn't wind up in the hospital with a ball peen wedged firmly in a certain orifice. Our seawater man would just be a gem to HAVE to work for, like the Filipino labours he suggests he can hire for 4 or 5 $ a day, as I am sure he isn't too far away from the attitude of PJ. I am also sure that if this poor labourer fell into his "process" and was killed Mr seawater wouldn't blink an eye, just hire another one, and although I can't say for certain, this is probably why he lives and operates in the Philippines. He has money, they don't and he can call the shots which probably explains his attitude. Kinda rings of an early James Bond film doesn't it?


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## g_axelsson (Nov 4, 2014)

Yes, it was an interesting discussion. What fascinated me most was that he never once checked the numbers himself. Anyone that is calling him or herself an engineer should be able to do a simple calculation to see what the numbers are telling them. Even after I pointed out that the website "Wisegeek" had made an error and their calculation was off by a factor 1000 he still tried to motivate the higher number with "local volcanoes".
Another noteworthy point was that any hydro power plant that get a restriction in the water flow will produce less energy and cost money, but that never registered in his golden dreams.

By the way, I hope I'm a type 2 engineer. 8) 

Göran


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## Palladium (Nov 4, 2014)

I think it was a scam that just didn't have time to develop. Just a feeling!


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## jason_recliner (Nov 5, 2014)

I thought so too. "I don't need your money" is often followed up with "Who wants in?". Even telemarketers here (by which I mean offshore call centres) now start with "I just want you to know I'm not selling anything" about 20 seconds before they try to sell you something.


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## Geo (Nov 5, 2014)

I love refining but what I really get a passion for is the , for lack of a better word, human experience. What does a person do for any given or particular situation. When I make outlandish remarks, I expect people to call me out about it. I do have "tells" that some people ignore. When I'm talking about something that I have first hand knowledge, I will say something like "this will happen if you do that". If it's something that I have read from studying or heard first hand from the author, I will say something like "from what I understand". Most people have similar tells and that is what I do, I look for other peoples "tells". Someone that's good at "pushing someone's buttons" does this. When someone post some utterly absurd scheme like it's brand new and they are the only one that knows what it is, I can be very blunt and rude. It's a very simple way to gauge a person by the way they react when being met with emotions they are unfamiliar with, like indifference or rejection. Retaliation in the form of name calling is a child's maneuver. It show's the person is used to throwing a tantrum and getting their way. General hostility towards anyone that disagrees with their preconceived notions is the lone wolf. It's their way or the highway. Lone wolves don't stay long on the forum. The last is everyone else. If they are sincere and want to learn, you can always apologize and explain why. We are in no way required to teach anyone any thing or even answer a single question. Everyone that joins this forum as a beginner should go ahead and eat a slice of humble pie and shut up and listen. I try to soak up as much as I can when I'm on the forum, I don't just log on to rant and rave about stuff. This is a huge resource that, in my opinion, has no equal for any amount of money. It should be respected as people respect their closest friend. If you don't respect your friends, before long, you wont have a friend. Disrespect this forum, ... I think you can see where I'm going with this.


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## Harold_V (Nov 5, 2014)

One thing I can tell you with certainty. As long as I'm appointed to be a part of those who oversee this board, individuals who behave as he did will be quickly dispatched. I don't give a rats butt if he, or anyone, is a part of this board, but if they choose to be, they best be on their best behavior. 

I'm an old pro at being abused by others--it's something I no longer tolerate. They behave, or they're gone. I gave him every opportunity (somewhat unlike me) to take a second look at things, to keep his attitude in an acceptable manner, and to treat readers with respect--the same respect that he demanded, but certainly had not earned. He chose, instead, to perpetuate his attitude, as if, somehow, that would help his case. 

He got what he deserved. Too bad it lasted as long as it did. That may not be the case in the future. 

I believe in two things. A fair trial, and a fine hanging, all in the same day, if possible. Treat readers (along with other moderators and me) with respect, and it will be returned in kind. Run your smart mouth, as if you feel you have rights not bestowed upon you, and things get rough in a hurry. 

I may appear to be harsh, but have you folks noticed that I have no issues with those who behave? I try to practice what I preach. 

Harold


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## Long Shot (Nov 5, 2014)

Göran - you have posted on some of my questions and have freely offered PM help if I needed it so yeah, Type 2 in my books buddy! And yes as well guys to the notion this dude was cooking a scam. Con men talk fast and try to steer away from facts by playing the shell game. I have to wonder where he went to school (if indeed he did) and how he managed to get a degree (if he has one) with his attitude. Any professor I have had would have chewed him to shreds and he would not have that attitude by the final year if he made it that far. I think his school may be Yougonnakillsomebodytube. I support Harold's decision to put him in his place, something that very few have done in his life it seems ( as I alluded to). Another child of the entitlement generation if my spidey sense is working properly.

Geo - very interesting perspective and comments as usual. You sure did call him out and he showed the exact colors myself and every one else could see and you likely expected. It makes me wonder how people like this can "step into a room", behave as they do, display flagrant arrogance (and ignorance) and then wonder why the others in the room would prefer it if they left. I thought GSP gave the guy a very good and civil explanation of why his idea wouldn't work and the dude basically just spat in his face by asking stupid questions he should have known or could have easily sourced answers to.

I spent a bit of time as a guest on this forum before joining. When I first started watching posts I thought the likes of you, Harold, Butcher, etc., (and I thought Butcher went pretty easy on this guy) were pretty hard on people - especially the noobs. I have full comprehension of why now. Mr seawater is not the first to behave as he did and it awes me the amount of people who join yesterday and either start making stupid statements, attempting a con, crossing the seniors, mixing things up willy nilly, the day after. This is a great wealth (priceless really). I started thinking when I was about 40 that what a waste of knowledge and experience is lost when an old person dies, that no one records that wisdom, it is just lost. Obviously some of that gets passed on to offspring but some have no offspring. Others are viewed as "crazy old men" by many but I can tell you from first hand experience that although one may appear crazy they still have wisdom. It is too long of a story but I found out that if you sleep with your horse's blanket on in a lumber camp you won't get the crabs other people brought back from going to town. This followed by "Have you ever seen a lousy horse son?". I spent a lot of time around horses when I was a kid and the answer is no. This same fellow also told me of cures for poison ivy and foot fungus - your own urine. That last one is probably knowledge to a few but I don't know about the crabs one! Point is, I respect a wise, experienced person's input when I ask a question, or am just told for that matter, and I am glad and proud to be associated with you guys (and gals). It is very fortunate for those to come that there is a record of this wisdom here on GRF.


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## Long Shot (Nov 5, 2014)

And I thought I was the only one up this time of day Harold! Actually, I am on call and got called out at 2 AM and couldn't get back to sleep so I can't say it is a normal practice for me to be pontificating at this time of day.


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## Harold_V (Nov 5, 2014)

Long Shot said:


> And I thought I was the only one up this time of day Harold! Actually, I am on call and got called out at 2 AM and couldn't get back to sleep so I can't say it is a normal practice for me to be pontificating at this time of day.


I am a night person. My normal turn-off-the-light time is about 5:00 AM. During the summer, I often see the sun before I retire for the day. 

My hours tend to allow me access to the board when things are calm----and I can dedicate the required time to dealing with those who don't behave. 

Get some sleep, Long Shot! 8) 

Harold


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## solar_plasma (Nov 5, 2014)

Palladium said:


> I think it was a scam that just didn't have time to develop. Just a feeling!



Just what I thought, either scam or pretending to be someone he is not. If he was, he could easily find/pay some engineers to calculate his scenario for him, if he wouldn't be able to by himself.


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