# All important metals recovered from electronics



## angiealanabrodie (Jan 17, 2017)

Ok, so I'm the "completist" kind of nerd that has only a chemistry minor. What I'm interested to do is to develop a process for recovering everything worth recovering from a mother board in the easiest and most TIME efficient and economical steps:

1. In a bucket, place all mother boards and circuit boards of all kinds with acid peroxide. 

Strain and remove things that have come under soldered.

Separate copper and black chips ets. Remove junk.


What other metals can be recovered from this green liquid and how?

2. Process the filter and other small bits of gold plating and other possible precious metals. What other metals would be collected with the gold plating at this time?

This goes into aqua regia. I plan on using muriatic acid plus spectrocide stump remover (potassium nitrate)

I will filter this solution when I dissolve all I can.
What metals could be left in the filter at this step?

I plan on neutralizing with sulfuric acid. I realize I could use urea. Since I am a biology major, I must ask- could this be neutralized with urine? 

Any way, my next step: precipitate gold with smb. Since I do not know how much gold I will recover, should I use iron sulfate? Can I make my own iron sulfate? What is the best/easiest way to drop the gold here? What could drop with it? What metals could be left in the solution once stannous says there is no longer gold in solution?

Also, I have added tin solder to muriatic acid to make a stannous chloride test. This test never has a color change on paper, but when I use a white plastic spoon, the stannous chloride does show a dark precipitate, but it's not an instantaneous color change. Is something wrong here?

Then I plan on making buttons of the precious metals I recover with an acetylene torch. I have a crucible that says it's for aluminum. It seems pourous. I also have a graphite crucible. Which is best to use for my process I'm trying to develop? 

Just fyi, I plan on using a home made charcoal kiln for the copper etc. 

What I definitely want to make sure I can recover is silver, palladium and platinum if it's there. I would also like to recover the copper, nickel, and lead.

My hope is to create an efficient process in a small scale, but can be improved on to efficiently process unknown metal combinations on a large scale- to eventually be so well developed that I can throw an entire computer or TV into the process and end up with all important metals being seperated. 

Can anyone share their thoughts?
Your time and consideration is much appreciated!


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## g_axelsson (Jan 17, 2017)

I've seen your type of member from time to time so you won't listen to what I have to say.

Stop what you are doing! Don't do any experiments! The risk is you will hurt others or yourself. At least you will make a mess.
http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/Making_a_mess
(Follow the "to read" links on that page)

Besides, you are too late, it's already been made.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=25023

Göran


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## patnor1011 (Jan 17, 2017)

By completist you probably meant that you made complete mess. I am sorry to tell you that but as Goran also mentioned, it cant be done like this. Nobody is doing it that way as it is impossible to recover all values from this. You certainly can recover small portion of values in starting material but in order to do so you will spent more than you gain on chemicals not to mention spent time and cost associated with waste disposal. And there will be so much waste produced this way you cant even imagine how much. You will need buckets upon buckets of acid to properly dissolve all metals in printed circuit boards. One last thing is that you will never dissolve all metal inside if you do not completely incinerate it before. By just dunking boards in acid you risk losing dissolved values which will cement up on any undissolved metal. 
We can talk about it for hours but that make no sense, you need to spend some time reading this vast forum just to get an idea about how complex this topic is.


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## Elektrikis (Jan 17, 2017)

I have personal metod.

1. Remove all gold platings on motherbord(leach metod).
2.Remove aluminium and chips.
3.Grinding powder.
4.seperate metal powder.
5.Leach in used foto ixer after silver remove. Ideali remowe cooper. I have 2 tons per mont spent fixer.
6.Electrolyse cooper.
7.Melt tin,lead,nickel togeder.
8.Electrolyse pure tin.


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## aga (Jan 17, 2017)

angiealanabrodie said:


> Ok, so I'm the "completist" kind of nerd that has only a chemistry minor. What I'm interested to do is to develop a process for recovering everything worth recovering from a mother board in the easiest and most TIME efficient and economical steps:
> 
> 1. In a bucket, place all mother boards and circuit boards of all kinds with acid peroxide.


Sounds frighteningly familiar. Certainly isn't going to save any time ; quite the reverse.

You really should listen to the good advice these guys give (for free) and act accordingly.

The reason PM extraction & refining is done in specific ways is that the mistakes and plain errors have all been done before, and better/best ways found.

There really is nothing new under the Sun.


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## Grelko (Jan 17, 2017)

angiealanabrodie said:


> Ok, so I'm the "completist" kind of nerd that has only a chemistry minor. What I'm interested to do is to develop a process for recovering everything worth recovering from a mother board in the easiest and most TIME efficient and economical steps:



Fast enough?

I'll be using this method once it starts getting warmer outside. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11064&hilit=depopulating

Edit - You do end up with a lot of acid waste at the end though.


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## kernels (Jan 18, 2017)

Just another note, Nitric acid is converted to Sulfuric acid using Sulfamic acid. You cannot 'neutralize' using Sulfuric acid . . . and peeing into the bucket is not likely to help much either.


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## anachronism (Jan 18, 2017)

kernels said:


> Just another note, Nitric acid is converted to Sulfuric acid using Sulfamic acid. You cannot 'neutralize' using Sulfuric acid . . . and peeing into the bucket is not likely to help much either.




Not QUITE Kernels mate. It's a by-product as opposed to a straight conversion.


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 18, 2017)

Trying to collect and separate all the various metals found on boards is best called a "Fool's Errand."


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## kernels (Jan 18, 2017)

anachronism said:


> kernels said:
> 
> 
> > Just another note, Nitric acid is converted to Sulfuric acid using Sulfamic acid. You cannot 'neutralize' using Sulfuric acid . . . and peeing into the bucket is not likely to help much either.
> ...



No, it is a straight conversion HNO3 + H3NSO3 → H2SO4 + N2O + H2O

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfamic_acid#Reaction_with_nitric_and_nitrous_acids

and . . . really, the point was that the author had suggested he wanted to 'neutralize' with Sulfuric acid.


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 18, 2017)

kernels said:


> anachronism said:
> 
> 
> > kernels said:
> ...


I'm no chemist but I think it's a false statement to say that nitric acid is converted to sulfuric acid. According to the equation, the nitric acid reacts with the sulfamic acid and the result is sulfuric acid, nitrous oxide and water. Big difference, to me.


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## Lou (Jan 19, 2017)

It's a redox reaction, if we're picking pepper and both sulfuric acid wnd nitrous oxide are the main products. N2O escaping pushes the equilibrium towards producing sulfuric acid, which is a stronger acid than nitric and by far than sulfamic. Consider the laughing gas a leaving group.


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## mark.balcorp (Jan 20, 2017)

aga said:


> angiealanabrodie said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, so I'm the "completist" kind of nerd that has only a chemistry minor. What I'm interested to do is to develop a process for recovering everything worth recovering from a mother board in the easiest and most TIME efficient and economical steps:
> ...


So what is the consensus opinion on the best ways to extract gold from PCB/e-waste currently?


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## aga (Jan 20, 2017)

Just follow the procedures you find in the book, and anything you read after searching this forum.


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## anachronism (Jan 20, 2017)

aga said:


> Just follow the procedures you find in the book, and anything you read after searching this forum.



What book?


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## patnor1011 (Jan 21, 2017)

mark.balcorp said:


> So what is the consensus opinion on the best ways to extract gold from PCB/e-waste currently?



Copper smelter.


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## aga (Jan 21, 2017)

anachronism said:


> What book?


There's this book which has some refining information in it written by someone called C.M. Hoke quite a few years back.
It's a bit old, but still very handy ...
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19798


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jan 21, 2017)

aga said:


> anachronism said:
> 
> 
> > What book?
> ...



Ahh, the good book... Excellent read for the layman and chemist alike.. 

I wish she were still alive. I would love to have a conversation with her... ...but at least she left a couple great pieces of literature to help idiots like me get proficient at purifying metals


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## 4metals (Jan 21, 2017)

Hoke's book is an excellent read but it was written a long time ago long before e-waste ever existed. So while the principles are still valid, e-waste is not covered. 

Unless I am mistaken, there are no definitive text's for e-waste. This forum is likely the best you will find.


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## justinhcase (Jan 21, 2017)

4metals said:


> Hoke's book is an excellent read but it was written a long time ago long before e-waste ever existed. So while the principles are still valid, e-waste is not covered.
> 
> Unless I am mistaken, there are no definitive text's for e-waste. This forum is likely the best you will find.


Though Ms Hoke douse not cover any electronics her self.
I was talking to one of my old Technicians called Peet B.
Was involved in the first Mosfit's for P.A. on navel ships right up the close of Nortel.
He recognised the Name Hoke not the spinster daughter but her farther.
Apparently in the birth of electronics he was quite a leading light.
He was quite involved in most of the early studies on the conductance of alloys with a view to there use in electrical circuits.
I do feel sorry for Ms Hoke in her day daughter where quite often kept at home deliberately by quite abusive means. brought up to serve there parent almost like an unpaid servant.
I can see why she would be given the part of the business that involved communicating with less informed outsider's.
Knowing quite a number of individuals who are very high functioning in there particular field I do not think Mr Hoke would have had the inclination to dumb down to the level of most who needed instruction.
Thank you Ms Hoke for your patience and help that like all good righters still touch's us to day.
I hope she found a life and a love beyond her farther.


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## aga (Jan 21, 2017)

Amongst the Awesome things about C.M. Hoke is how she condensed seriously complicated chemistry into processes that anyone can do, and end up with precious metals - that is sheer Genius.

I'm extremely happy that she wrote those books.

Turns out that a bit of chemistry knowledge is pretty much useless - need to know the whole kaboodle before branching off on wierd, untested paths.


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## anachronism (Jan 21, 2017)

aga said:


> Turns out that a bit of chemistry knowledge is pretty much useless - need to know the whole kaboodle before branching off on wierd, untested paths.



Ahhh. Learn you have young padawan. :lol: 

I seem to recall saying something to that effect when you first joined, and now you get where I was coming from.


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## butcher (Jan 21, 2017)

We need to be able to see when we are wrong if we want to be right.


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## kernels (Jan 22, 2017)

Lou said:


> It's a redox reaction, if we're picking pepper and both sulfuric acid wnd nitrous oxide are the main products. N2O escaping pushes the equilibrium towards producing sulfuric acid, which is a stronger acid than nitric and by far than sulfamic. Consider the laughing gas a leaving group.



Yep, this is pretty much what I was getting at, but recognised it was not worth arguing about just so I could win fake internet points. Always a pain when you try to help and the grf hivemind turns against you.


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## aga (Jan 22, 2017)

kernels said:


> Always a pain when you try to help and the grf hivemind turns against you.


Quick ! Everyone ! Protect the Queen ! Protect the Brood ! Protect the Honey !

Nah. It's not like that, just there are people here who really do know what they're talking about.

(clearly not me)

Accept the info as intended instead of something personal.


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