# lazersteve's "Finger's in AP" video question



## Despotic (Jun 24, 2010)

Over on lazersteve's website ( http://www.goldrecovery.us ) he has a video showing how to process gold fingers from edge cards in AP. 
During the part that Steve add's the peroxide and the solution begins to turn yellow he say's that the yellow color is auric chloride.
I have read on this forum that AP will not dissolve the gold. If my solution contains auric chloride then some of the gold has been 
dissolved and I will need to precipitate that gold with smb.

Am I understanding this correctly?

-Craig


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## lazersteve (Jun 24, 2010)

Despotic said:


> Over on lazersteve's website ( http://www.goldrecovery.us ) he has a video showing how to process gold fingers from edge cards in AP.
> During the part that Steve add's the peroxide and the solution begins to turn yellow he say's that the yellow color is auric chloride.
> I have read on this forum that AP will not dissolve the gold. If my solution contains auric chloride then some of the gold has been
> dissolved and I will need to precipitate that gold with smb.
> ...



Craig,

Later in the video I explain that only traces of the gold will into solution if you do not use too much peroxide. I also explain that when the copper levels reach saturation levels the dissolved gold will be precipitated as black powder.

Yes, AP will dissolve gold as seen in the Gold Solvents document on my website, however copper saturation will force the dissolved gold out as long as there is not too much peroxide present. This is why I use 3% peroxide and add it in very small doses only as required. An air bubbler will eliminate the risk of dissolving yor foils. SMB is not the best way (or even effective) to precipitate gold from AP solutions.

Steve


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## Despotic (Jun 24, 2010)

Thank you Steve,

I should be on track then. I used 2 and 1/2 quarts HCL -- 6 cups peroxide 3% ( added throughout 36 hours ). 874 troy grams of fingers.
Every thing is looking fine, exactly like your videos. Solution went from clear ---> yellow ---> green/yellow ---> transparent (murky) black/green/yellow with lots of foils.
Most of my foils are intact, the way the looked when they were on the fingers, but a lot of them have broken into smaller pieces.
Is that normal?
Is my solution to strong? I mean strong enough to dissolve the foils? 
Also, is there anything else I should watch out for?

-Craig


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## lazersteve (Jun 24, 2010)

Despotic said:


> ... I used 2 and 1/2 quarts HCL -- 6 cups peroxide 3% ( added throughout 36 hours ). 874 troy grams of fingers.
> Every thing is looking fine, exactly like your videos. Solution went from clear ---> yellow ---> green/yellow ---> transparent (murky) black/green/yellow with lots of foils.
> Most of my foils are intact, the way the looked when they were on the fingers, but a lot of them have broken into smaller pieces.
> Is that normal?



Yes. The ones that break up are typically the ones that had thinner plating on the fingers.



Despotic said:


> Is my solution to strong? I mean strong enough to dissolve the foils?



I would say not too strong. Some foils may have dissolved, but if you use the solution until it turns a dark chocolate brown color there will be no gold in solution. You may have to add some more fingers or plain copper to get the dark color. If you haven't please read the Copper Chloride document on my website.



Despotic said:


> Also, is there anything else I should watch out for?



One of the biggest mistakes noobs make is not rinsing the copper I chloride out of the foils before they dissolve the foils in HCl-Cl. The copper I chloride appears as tan, gray, or off white mud mixed in the foils. It is easily dissolved with multiple washes of HCl. After you wash 2-3 times with HCl be sure to rinse the foils clean with water. If you add the rinse water and a cloud of white appears, you still have CuCl and the foils require more HCl rinsing.

Steve


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## Despotic (Jun 25, 2010)

Great info Steve!

You're right about us noobs dissolving the foils when they still contain copper I chloride.
Seeing the little yellow flakes can cloud the mind with thoughts of a button. 
Important steps could be over looked, rushed or forgotten completely.
I'll stay focused and try to do my first run correctly.

Thank You Again Steve,

-Craig


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## texan (Jun 30, 2010)

SMB is not the best way (or even effective) to precipitate gold from AP solutions.

Steve[/quote]


Steve please elaborate more on this...

I have some ideas on this but I would like your take...

Texan


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## lazersteve (Jun 30, 2010)

The best method to remove gold from pregnant AP solutions is with copper saturation. 

Use the AP until it is chocolate brown and no gold will remain in the liquid. 

The gold precipitates as a fine brown/black powder.

Steve


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## Despotic (Jul 5, 2010)

Everything went as planned but I'm a little confused on the copper I chloride.

I've had my gold foils setting in HCL for over a week now. I agitate very well at least once a day.
I know this is a little over kill but I've been busy with work so why not allow them to soak... right? 

I have lots of black powder in my gold foils, so much that when I agitate the foils the HCL becomes murky. 
It looks exactly like the gold being dropped from AuCl with smb before it settles.
When I allow it to settle the HCL is crystal clear. 
Is this indeed gold, copper I chloride or something I wasn't aware of?

-Craig


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## lazersteve (Jul 5, 2010)

Despotic said:


> Everything went as planned but I'm a little confused on the copper I chloride.
> 
> I've had my gold foils setting in HCL for over a week now. I agitate very well at least once a day.
> I know this is a little over kill but I've been busy with work so why not allow them to soak... right?
> ...



Copper I chloride washes out of the foils in a few passes of only a couple minutes each with stirring. Be sure to rinse one last time to be sure the acid does not discolor again and finsih with a water wash or two. A prolonged soak is not necessary and servers no real purpose as far as Copper I chloride is concerned as it is highly soluble in HCl.

The black powder is likely gold in the foils, move on to HCl-Cl or AR, filter, then SMB.

Steve


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## goldenchild (Aug 24, 2010)

This is the most current posted thread on fingers in AP so I figured I would bump it. Ok let me start out by saying that I absolutely understand the Acid Perioxide(sorry Lou) method and how it works. I know that the aim is to get as many fingers off of the cut boards intact. But what if my aim IS to dissolve the foils? Tell me what you guys think of this and why or why not its a good idea.

I want to set up a rig like in Steve's video with the buckets and drilled holes and whole shebang. The inner container will hold the fingers and the outter container will be filled with juuuust enough HCL to cover the fingers. I then add just a bit of 27% hydrogen peroxide to the mix. Being that the peroxide is so strong it should only take a small amount to put the fingers into solution. I then rinse the inner container off into a container seperate from the rig. I discard the boards and continue doing this to new batches until the solution is so saturated with copper that the gold drops out. 

So now I have 2 buckets. 1 saturated with copper solution and the values on the bottom(some gold possibly still in solution) and another bucket with a very dilute concentration of dissolved gold. Combine the buckets into 1 and then drop out any remaining gold out of solution if stannous test shows positive. 

Notes

-The volume of liquid shouldnt be much as the peroxide is very strong and doesnt need much to digest batches + I will only need to add small amounts of H2O2 to rejuvinate

-I plan on harvesting the gold when I fill about half of a 5 gallon bucket so there isnt so much liquid to process


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## Barren Realms 007 (Aug 24, 2010)

I wouldn't do this if I were you. It is not going to speed up your processing, it is going to make it more difficult for you. The old flakes are easier to deal with than the disolved solution. Get the flakes in a container and then dissolve them. And I would dilute your peroxide with 5 cups water and 1 cup 32% peroxide.

Don't try and reinvent the wheel.


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