# i went to the store and find borax and lye,what you think?



## ericrm (Nov 3, 2012)

i found those 2 product at h&h ,wonder in some canadian poeple have used it and what you know about them.
sodium hydroxide is far from cheap 3kg 22$+tx,but seam pretty clean by eye and when i disolved it didnt see any crap in it...
the borax was 5$+tx ... but i havent play with it i will try to glase a dish later... in the mean while if someone know something...


----------



## Marcel (Nov 3, 2012)

Great country, here in Germany *Borax* has been prohibited (dont ask me why). 
All we can get here is:


----------



## butcher (Nov 3, 2012)

ericrm, 
These product brands are not familiar to me, although the chemicals are, they can be fairly pure chemicals for what we use them for, check the labels and MSDS sheets, that will usually tell you what they contain, I cannot read the labels in your language, but borax is usually mined and sold pretty pure (minor impurity does no harm with our use), the bottle of sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) (Lye) on the label say's 100%, although many of these chemicals sold for every day uses can have some impurities they can be used for our processes. 

You could try to neutralize a little of the lye with HCl in a test tube forming table salt, check the dissolved salt for impurity and look and see if you can see anything undissolved, or an off color. (Who knows, you may find more impurity in the salt you buy at the store to use on your French fries).

Sorry I am not much help on this particular brand.


----------



## etack (Nov 3, 2012)

I think we need to neutralize Marcel's pic :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :lol: 


Eric


----------



## Geo (Nov 3, 2012)

Eric, the label says 100% pure lye crystals. i dont believe it gets better than that unless you buy lab grade. i think that will work great for what you intend to use it for.

Borax is Borax. the only difference between that and lab grade is what you bought contains more water.


----------



## butcher (Nov 3, 2012)

I would just incinerate that picture. It could contaminate the metals in the melt.


----------



## GotTheBug (Nov 3, 2012)

As a result, all of marcel's future posts will be read in middle eastern accent.


----------



## ericrm (Nov 3, 2012)

im not always so good on safety but im 100% sure that chronic exposure to this picture will lead to nervous system deterioration...




goldsilverpro said:


> Most slag spills occur when the material foams over. This is usually due to using borax or other fluxes that contains waters of hydration. Standard grocery store borax has a formula of Na2B4O7.10H2O, which is 47% water. The water converts to steam, which expands and foams over. Borax is part of most all flux mixtures. Especially in an electric furnace, I would always use anhydrous (meaning no water) borax - Na2B4O7./quote]
> 
> i cant find the msds... of that particular one...


----------



## acpeacemaker (Nov 3, 2012)

http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/material/borax.php

I was always going to try an oven with laundry style borax, but never have.


----------



## qst42know (Nov 3, 2012)

I use the laundry borax Twenty Mule Team. It works fine.


----------



## ericrm (Nov 3, 2012)

acpeacemaker said:


> http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/material/borax.php
> 
> I was always going to try an oven with laundry style borax, but never have.




i have just look at the web site and if i understand right i could test the borax depending on the melting temp to know if it is anhydrous or not

((Sodium tetraborate Na2B4O7
20 Mule Teem Borax Package
Sodium tetraborate Na2B4O7 *melts at 741°C *(1,366°F)
Sodium tetraborate, decahydrate, Borax
Na2B4O7·10H2O melts at *75°C (167°F)*, -8H2O, 60°C

Sodium tetraborate, pentahydrate Na2B4O7·5H2O melts at -H2O,* 120°C *(248°F) ))



qst42know said:


> I use the laundry borax Twenty Mule Team. It works fine.


 have you used it as a flux for other metal or just small dish glazing?


----------



## qst42know (Nov 3, 2012)

I have used it in primitive fire assays, as a brazing flux, and for melting dishes.

You just have to account for expansion, it swells like a marshmallow in the microwave but shrinks and melts just as fast.

The anhydrous crystals would be far more friendly to furnace linings and insulation though.


----------



## ericrm (Nov 3, 2012)

ok, thank you


----------



## NoIdea (Nov 3, 2012)

butcher said:


> I would just incinerate that picture. It could contaminate the metals in the melt.



I will never be able to keep a straight face again when borax is mentioned. :lol: 

I have been contaminated for life. Than pic is so wrong in so many ways. :lol:


----------



## Geo (Nov 3, 2012)

Eric, you can heat the borax in a pan and drive out a large percentage of the water. notice the powder is very blocky and rather large crystals. after baking, the powder is very fine with very small crystals.


----------



## goldsilverpro (Nov 3, 2012)

NoIdea,

I love your subtle humor. Must be a NJ thing.


----------



## Palladium (Nov 4, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> Must be a NJ thing.



:?:


----------



## NoIdea (Nov 4, 2012)

Palladium said:


> goldsilverpro said:
> 
> 
> > Must be a NJ thing.
> ...



Ill second that. :?:


----------



## Palladium (Nov 4, 2012)

I think he meant NZ. :mrgreen:


----------



## BJL1984 (Nov 5, 2012)

Would heating the Laundry borax till it foams then breaking down the foam and collecting for later use help the fact that it has so much water just a thought, And to marcel isnt borat only useful if you are in the market for superior potassium LOL, i had to make the joke I couldnt help myself


----------



## goldenchild (Nov 5, 2012)

NoIdea said:


> butcher said:
> 
> 
> > I would just incinerate that picture. It could contaminate the metals in the melt.
> ...



That pic would make a great avatar pause................. not


----------



## NoIdea (Nov 5, 2012)

That pic would be great if i wished to diet, it has a way of putting me off my food. :shock: 

Deano


----------



## patnor1011 (Nov 5, 2012)

He is a fine British actor. His impersonations are perfect. Just watch what he has to say in his latest movie about dictatorship. :lol: 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1E9MiUECXU[/youtube]


----------

