# MAPP torch for gold melting?



## Captobvious (Mar 12, 2013)

All I have currently is a MAPP torch (single bottle, handheld type) will that be hot enough to melt gold? If not are there other types of fuel that would be compatible with the torch that might work better? I've been searching threads high and low but I can't seem to locate a definitive answer to this.

This is the kit I currently have
http://www.menards.com/main/tools-h...torch-propack-torch-kit/p-1509565-c-10163.htm


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## jimdoc (Mar 12, 2013)

Captobvious said:


> All I have currently is a MAPP torch (single bottle, handheld type) will that be hot enough to melt gold? If not are there other types of fuel that would be compatible with the torch that might work better? I've been searching threads high and low but I can't seem to locate a definitive answer to this.
> 
> This is the kit I currently have
> http://www.menards.com/main/tools-h...torch-propack-torch-kit/p-1509565-c-10163.htm



That will work with small amounts, just not as quick. That is what I use for now.

Jim


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## IntelGold (Mar 12, 2013)

I have been using Mapp Gas and it works fine and gets hot enough. I use it with my Rothenberger Super Fire 2 Torch and its great.


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## Captobvious (Mar 12, 2013)

Cool, thanks for the info, and yeah we're only talking small amounts for now ie around 10 grams


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## jmdlcar (Mar 12, 2013)

Hi all,

Here is the one that got but I don't know if it is better or not.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/203371801?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=ts+8000&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=203371801

Thanks
Jack


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## RicRock (Mar 12, 2013)

jmdlcar said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Here is the one that got but I don't know if it is better or not.
> 
> ...



I have this one as well and having a lot of trouble melting silver.

Been trying to use a graphite melting dish, just ordered a different one so we'll see.


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## jmdlcar (Mar 12, 2013)

RicRock,

Have you ever melted gold with it or has anyone else? I hope it will or I will have to pay someone to melt my powder when I get any.

Thanks for the info
Jack


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## metatp (Mar 12, 2013)

RicRock said:


> jmdlcar said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all,
> ...


Try using ceramic fiber as insulation around the melting dish. It makes a big difference. Lazersteve introduced it to me, and I have no problem melting silver now. If you want a sample, please let me know. I have a couple of spare pieces you can try. what I have is 1 inch thick and 8 pound density.

Regards,
Tom


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## jmdlcar (Mar 12, 2013)

metatp said:


> RicRock said:
> 
> 
> > jmdlcar said:
> ...


Tom,

What is it call and where did you buy it?

Thanks
Jack


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## RicRock (Mar 12, 2013)

Something like this?

http://compare.ebay.com/like/271076265186?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar


How exactly do you use it? Do you set the melting dish on it and melt from the top?


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## jmdlcar (Mar 12, 2013)

RicRock,

I haven't use it yet. I just don't want to start and find out it won't work.

Thanks
Jack


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## metatp (Mar 12, 2013)

jmdlcar said:


> RicRock,
> 
> I haven't use it yet. I just don't want to start and find out it won't work.
> 
> ...


That's why I tried it first. Then I was sold and bought some. I can send you a piece to try. If you think it works well, you can get more via a number of avenues. What I do is place a piece on the bottom of the melting dish and then place it around the dish.


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## metatp (Mar 12, 2013)

If Noxx still has some available, you can buy it from him.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=17135&p=173478#p173478


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## jmdlcar (Mar 12, 2013)

metatp said:


> jmdlcar said:
> 
> 
> > RicRock,
> ...


metatp,

Do you have picture of what it look like?

Thanks
Jack


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## metatp (Mar 13, 2013)

jmdlcar said:


> metatp,
> 
> Do you have picture of what it look like?
> 
> ...


You can look a the link I sent in the last post. The pieces I have look like the picture below.

Tom


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## RicRock (Mar 18, 2013)

I purchased a silica dish like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390440976853?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

and was able to melt sterling silver in a few minutes with my TS8000 torch. Before, I couldn't get it to melt in a graphite dish.


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## metatp (Mar 18, 2013)

If you want melting dishes, I recomment Lazersteve website.
http://goldrecovery.us 

I have been using them with no problems melting silver with my TS8000. Will ceramic fiber insulation, I am able to melt using propane.

Tom


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## jmdlcar (Mar 18, 2013)

metatp,

Thanks for the ceramic fiber it came today. I will put to good use. How long will it last? Is there I could on it to make it last longer? Again thank you.

Jack


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## AUH-R (Apr 30, 2013)

jmdlcar said:


> metatp,
> 
> Thanks for the ceramic fiber it came today. I will put to good use. How long will it last? Is there I could on it to make it last longer? Again thank you.
> 
> Jack



Bump, anyone have an answer to these questions?

Thanks.....


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## butcher (May 4, 2013)

I use the ceramic fiber blanket for boiler refractory, and also in furnaces, the brand of ceramic fiber wool (cerawool),one of the brands, I use is made by AP green, Narco, Harbison, Walker.

You ask how long it will last, well it could last forever, but this statement needs some clarification, the fiber wool is like fiber glass it will not rot, it can withstand very high temperature, but you can also melt it with your torch (just as you can melt fiberglass or regular glass,now this does not mean it will melt right away if you have the yellow cooler part of your torch flame playing on the blanket, but if you focused the hotter blue part of your torch on the ceramic fiber wool you can melt the glass, this is Good stuff, how long it will last depends on how you use it, it could last you your lifetime or you can burn holes in it.

The ceramic fiber wool is a good insulator refractory, where you need a light weight insulation that will slow the convection of heat, (carry heat from one side to the other), the air in the fibers also helps, in some applications the fiber wool can be coated with a wash coat of slip type refractory like Sairset mortar, if you have a place that needs a harder silica surface coating, but in this thin application of the Sairset silica coating when dry would crack easily if the wall or the ceramic blanket was moved, or disturbed, in applications like where it needs a little more strength a castable refractory would be used with a wash coat of Sairset fire-clay, other areas like around a burner we would use fire brick which can also have a wash coat if needed, not all fire brick is equal, the light weight brick will not conduct heat as easily as the tougher dense hard type of a fire brick, there are several types of refractory material each will have a certain application in a boiler or furnace. 

Not sure if this answers your question.


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## MEANIE (May 4, 2013)

If you have a boiler repair place. That repairs boilers that are used in home heating. They use the ceramic fiber insulation in boilers. If you go by there shop most the time they will give you scrap pieces for free for they toss them out......Also they use castable refractory cemet that you can buy to make your own mini furnace.

Todd aka meanie


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## Geo (May 4, 2013)

a little pricey but there when you need it.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/chimney-sweepreg%3B-furnace-cement-gray-16-fl-oz


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## jmdlcar (May 4, 2013)

If I buy Rutland 600 Castable Refractory Cement, 12.5 lbs would that be enough to build a furnace? I know it should build a small furnace could build a bigger one?

Jack


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## MEANIE (May 5, 2013)

The best i can tell you is if you make one smaller than the bucket it comes in
like a coffee can one. the floor and sides are poured and whats left from the center is use to make a lid for it, heres a link to look at them.
http://backyardmetalcasting.com/ccfurnace01.html
The rutland you are talking about is only rated for 2200f.
If you can find a boiler repair place near you they have castable refrac that 
rated at up to 3000f. and most will sell you a 50# bag. 

MEANIE aka Todd


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## jmdlcar (May 5, 2013)

I have a TS8000 MAPP torch what is the max heat it will put out?

Jack


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## MEANIE (May 5, 2013)

I am sorry jack but thats like saying how fast can my chevy go.
AS in heat do you mean how hot will the max temp of the flame be or how many btu,s it will put out?
or will it work to melt pms?
I think it will melt these that are under 2000F degrees
in one of the little homemade furnaces
Aluminum Al 659 1218
Brass (85 Cu 15 Zn) Cu+Zn 900-940 1652-1724
Bronze (90 Cu 10 Sn) Cu+Sn 850-1000 1562-1832
Cast Iron C+Si+Mn+Fe 1260 2300
Carbon C 3600 6512
Chromium Cr 1615 3034
Copper Cu 1083 1981
Gold Au 1063 1946
Hydrogen H -259 -434.2
Inconel Ni+Cr+Fe 1393 2540
Iron Fe 1530 2786
Lead Pb 327 621
Magnesium Mg 670 1240
Manganese Mn 1260 2300
Monel Ni+Cu+Si 1301 2400
Nickel Ni 1452 2646
Phosphorous P 44 111
Silicon Si 1420 2588
Silver Ag 961 1762
Stainless Steel Cr+Ni+Mn+C 1363 2550
Steel-High Carbon Cr+Ni+Mn+C 1353 2500
Medium Carbon Cr+Ni+Mn+C 1427 2600

There just to many variables how you use it to be shure

Todd
edit first numbers are celsius second are fahrenheit


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## jmdlcar (May 5, 2013)

Do you think I could have problems with Rutland 600 Castable Refractory Cement and TS8000 torch to melt gold?

Jack


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## MEANIE (May 5, 2013)

I am not smart enough to tell you yes and be right
but if you make a coffee can furnace and use a porcelain crucible in it i think it will work out for you..
allso when you mix up the cement use as little water as you can. Cover it with a moist towel so the water in it will evaporate and not form a skin on it . Then let it dry for a few days . Then you need to heat it slowly so you do not get a steam explosion.( Its where the water turns to steam and is traped in the cement and causes the cemet to blow out chunks)

Please let some others chime in here that knows more.
Or tell you in the right words so you dont get hurt.


Todd


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## AUH-R (May 5, 2013)

Thanks for the reply butcher.

Best wishes,


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## Geo (May 5, 2013)

Jack, if you are just using a propane torch without any oxy, the refractory at 2200F should work just fine. 2200 is its rating but it can withstand temperatures much hotter. it has to be rated due to insurance purposes. many such things give a rating at its lowest range instead of its highest. which means there is an operating range to work with. its not going to melt or blow up if you heat it to 2300F.


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## jmdlcar (May 5, 2013)

Geo, I have the propane tank and mapp take (yellow). I know the mapp tank will get hotter then the propane tank. Should it still be fine?

Jack


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## butcher (May 5, 2013)

cast-able refractory is soft and flake off easily it is a good insulator for your furnace if applied several inches thick, you should use some type of support, like pieces of thick wire welded to your furnace wall, or some type of screen wire screwed or riveted in spots to your furnace wall, as support (kind of like re-bar in concrete), also you should use a wash coat of refractory mortar on the outside surface, like Sairset, it will cook hard and form a solid crust on the surface of the walls (kind of like hardened stucco, and withstand a higher temperature, than the cast-able refractory would alone, and can handle the flames of your burner better, to repair the furnace you will remove the flaked washcoat, cut grooves into any cracks of the cast-able refractory and apply another wash-coat of Sairset.


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## nealbert (Yesterday at 5:29 PM)

metatp said:


> That's why I tried it first. Then I was sold and bought some. I can send you a piece to try. If you think it works well, you can get more via a number of avenues. What I do is place a piece on the bottom of the melting dish and then place it around the dish.


use it like insulation, pack around the bowl and maybe cover half of the top of bowl. it will work and help a bunch. i get mine 1" off ebay


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