# Barren and Joem Conversation



## joem (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks Barren
but I thought you were banned??
(kidding - I read your other post)


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 18, 2010)

I am I just got a stay of execution. 8)


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## joem (Dec 18, 2010)

serious? or maybe not.
Your one of the smart ones on this forum, banned I think not.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 18, 2010)

joem said:


> serious? or maybe not.
> Your one of the smart ones on this forum, banned I think not.



Thank you for the compliment. It means a lot. I try to give back more than I get. But I don't seem to get along well with certain people. But I try to the best of my ability. I just want everyone safe, secure and profitable. Even if my spelling sucks. 8)


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## joem (Dec 18, 2010)

I tell my students...
"take the knowledge not the attitudes"

I did get a little caught up in attitude at my beginings on this forum but then took my own advice and I mostly try to only comment on data and just read the drama and let it go - but hey we are only human, passionate yes, but only human. I do enjoy reading your views on subjects.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 18, 2010)

Thank you and I will have to compliment you on how far you have come since you have been on here. You have made a great adjustment and done a good job.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 18, 2010)

That is the best way for you to learn. That is how I got to where I am now. And answering questions from people and and getting corrected when I have been wrong. I will still never forget one of my 1st questions I had not been on here very long.



> _"I have seen this question asked before and I can't seem to find it again.Can you drop silver from HCL with non iodized table salt? Does the solution need to be cold or hot? Thanks in advance."_



So see we all have to start some where. I can be a humbaling experience. And most of it has been the best time I have had in years and has given me new life. To watch someone grow is the best experience in life you can have. And that is why I like helping people here. There are good times and bad times, some will learn and some will not, some will stay and some will go. And you will just have to learn not to take things personal to heart and understand that people like Harold, Steve, Lou, 4metals and everyeone else are here to help and protect you. And you never know how you might develope a friendship with.

And learn to develope patience.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 19, 2010)

UH OH Stay of execution is over... 8)


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## joem (Dec 19, 2010)

Surprised to see that this part of my new advertising topic has become its own thread. But I guess if new people read this they must realise that it's a knowledge based forum based on smart, not smart choices, but mostly experience. It's a modern kin to listening to your elders and learning. Most importantly post pictures because in my experience a good percentage of the younger generation do not want to read but just point and click for instant gratification, they do not have less ability to learn, they just do it in a different way. 
I am glad and humbled to be here. LONG LIVE THE FORUM.
ps. and read hokes


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 19, 2010)

These few posts were just put in a different are of the forum because they had no relevence to refining. I think Steve did that.


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## lazersteve (Dec 19, 2010)

Splitting the post into two topics seemed logical to me as the first two posts had to deal with advertising and the section here seemed to be you two guys causally talking amongst yourselves, so I moved it to the Discussions Forum. 

This is a new thing I'm trying: Segment the threads into relevant topics to keep discussions on target. I'm considering going back through many of the threads and splitting them as I have done with this one to keep the meat of the thread on the bones of the opening topic. Of course this is a monstrous undertaking and won't make things better overnight, but you have to start somewhere.

This may also help noobs navigate the forum easier while still allowing for side conversations such as this one to occur.

Steve


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## joem (Dec 19, 2010)

Very good , I like it.
I will keep this in mind when I have a casual conversation
thanks steve


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 19, 2010)

I think it was a good thing to do and didn't mean for it to go so far off topic. And I feel it will clear up some of the confusion that occours.

Thanks Steve


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## Anonymous (Dec 19, 2010)

Merry christmas to all,and to all....a winning lottery ticket.


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## joem (Dec 19, 2010)

mic said:


> Remember what I told you barren about special treatment for different members?One person does something and gets banned or threatened to be banned,another one does the same thing and gets a special thread just for their conversation.Funny huh?



I hope this is not about me? I'm just a humble member who asks more questions compared to the answers I give and it takes at least two people to create a converstaion. I see nothing special here, just talk not particularly related to gold recovery.


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## Anonymous (Dec 19, 2010)

No joe.Barren has told me several times that he is impressed with how fast you have progressed and you haven't done anything wrong.It was a subject that has been witnessed before and of course I do not want to raise any eyebrows so I keep it under my hat,or in PM's,emails,or phonecalls.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 19, 2010)

Yea I getcha. 8)


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## lazersteve (Dec 19, 2010)

mic said:


> Remember what I told you barren about special treatment for different members?One person does something and gets banned or threatened to be banned,another one does the same thing and gets a special thread just for their conversation.Funny huh?




Johnny,

Please read my post above again. No one is being 'singled-out' and there is definitely no back room conspiracy going on behind the scenes. I've been thinking a lot lately about how noobs must feel when they arrive at the forum and search on a subject. First they get either hundreds of results, or none at all. Then if they click on one of the results they end up on a thread (or in the middle of one) that is riddled with information that is both relevant to their search and information that is way off topic from their search. 

If you feel I was singling someone out, why did I not split the other posts higher up in the same thread made by the same group of posters? You'll notice that out of three pages of posts in the thread, I only split the last few posts from the thread since they were not relevant to the original thread.

It is my new goal to try to help the new guys find there footing here by sorting some of the wheat in the threads, from the chaff in the threads. No one's post was altered or deleted, just relocated to a more appropriate section. As a moderator one of my jobs is to keep the forum in a clean user friendly format. You'll notice I'll be splitting more threads in the upcoming weeks. I will not decide whether to split the thread or not based upon who the poster is, I'll decide based upon the relevancy of the post to the original topic or question. When I split a thread I pay special attention to the continuity of the conversation to be sure nothing is lost in the split. After a thread is split, both threads should still be easy to follow and make sense.

I know my explanation is not as glamorous as a conspiracy theory, but like most things in life, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Relax and try not to read too much into what goes on here on the forum. It's not about 'us' against 'them', it is about everyone working together efficiently and safely to help one another refine precious metals.

I feel like after a few months of splitting and relocating threads the forum will become a much easier place to navigate for noobs and pros alike. Maybe after a year of this everyone will begin putting posts in the right section and replies will begin to remain focused on the original subject matter. I know it won't ever be perfect, but it sure as hell can't be any worse than the mixed up mess of posts we currently have. Granted some posts will not be 100% in line with the original topic, but you would have to agree that there is a lot of room for improvement.

Steve


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't think he was directing it or referring to you Steve.


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## Oz (Dec 19, 2010)

That is one heck of a job you're putting on your shoulders Steve, even just doing so on current threads and none from the past. I welcome you to alter or delete anything I have posted that does not materially add to the forum.


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## joem (Dec 19, 2010)

Hi Steve
You can also delete any of my non relevent posts that go no where.
But might I suggest you start a new thread explaing all this and have people discuss and express concerns there. This thread between barron and myself has now been overshadowed and now we have both read it it no longer pertains to pm recovery.


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## lazersteve (Dec 19, 2010)

Again, my intention is not to delete anyone's post, but I will likely be moving some around. I may even end up combining a few of the threads for continuity sake.

Just so I'm clear, this is not about any one person in particular, or any thread or post, it's about making the forum a better place to be.

Steve


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## joem (Dec 19, 2010)

I'm not hurt or insulted in any way. You just do what you have to do as a moderator. No worries.


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## Lou (Dec 19, 2010)

You know what's worse than off topic posts?


Seemingly inflammatory or argumentative posts that certain members like to make and then edit_ de facto_ when a small flame war has started or moderation begins to get involved.
It is very irksome indeed to see only one person's response to obvious instigation and prevents me and my fellow moderators from arbitrating disputes effectively.

I've seen this multiple times by a handful of members who should know better. I've now taken to just deleting those posts that are edited to have no content at all because they serve no purpose and take up space in the thread and disturb the flow of reading. It angers me to see a thread go south do to silly _ad hominems_ and implications over light bulbs and such but only see ONE side of it.

Let me make something abundantly clear-- if you need to edit your post such that a "?" or a blank message space is left, you really need to reconsider posting such remarks. Don't have anything nice to say? Don't say it on the open forum, I don't want the extra work and bad atmosphere. If you've really got a problem with someone and need to act like a kid, chew them out privately until they tell you to cease and desist (which you will do). Open harassment and not letting things go is childish and churlish behavior that is not conducive to the educational ends of a forum. 

Our moderation team doesn't single people out--the offenders usually do it themselves and get earmarked as troublemakers. That someone would even dare imply that is upsetting because it is entirely without merit. Harold, Steve, Chris, 4metals, Noxx, and myself go out of our way to decide remediation in a democratic and fair way; it's actually very difficult to get permanently banned, especially if you're a contributing member that is obviously sharp. 

Some may argue that the right to edit replies should lie with the poster. I certainly agree, but I'll temper that with this caveat: if you edit your reply to preclude or interfere with moderation, you will be held culpable more so than the instigator. *
Hear me now and be warned! I will not tolerate this revisionist history.* I expect my fellow moderators will hold my position with me.


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## Harold_V (Dec 20, 2010)

Lou said:


> Our moderation team doesn't single people out--the offenders usually do it themselves and get earmarked as troublemakers. That someone would even dare imply that is upsetting because it is entirely without merit. Harold, Steve, Chris, 4metals, Noxx, and myself go out of our way to decide remediation in a democratic and fair way; it's actually very difficult to get permanently banned, especially if you're a contributing member that is obviously sharp.


My experience, thus far, is that those that are trouble will continue to be. It's a mindset---one that is not easily abandoned. They often see themselves as a victim, when, in fact, they are the instigator. 



> Some may argue that the right to edit replies should lie with the poster. I certainly agree, but I'll temper that with this caveat: if you edit your reply to preclude or interfere with moderation, you will be held culpable more so than the instigator.


One of the capabilities of administration is the ability to lock individual posts (I have administrative privileges on the Chaski board, so I know this first hand). Posts that have the potential to inflame can be locked so they can not be edited, so evidence is preserved in the original post. Perhaps Noxx would explore the possibility of extending that permission to those of us that are global moderators. It would help, tremendously, in keeping the record straight. I would also encourage anyone that feels the need to respond to less than flattering comments to QUOTE the comment, so a record is made that can't be deleted by the instigator. 



> *Hear me now and be warned! I will not tolerate this revisionist history.* I expect my fellow moderators will hold my position with me.


Not a question in my mind. You have my unwavering support. In fact, I propose that anyone that alters a post without posting an apology for the acrimony that results should be given time to think about their attitude----and if that doesn't serve the purpose, they should be banned. 

Harold


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## patnor1011 (Dec 20, 2010)

We all know many huge social networking or discussions forums. If somebody have desire of his discussions to be seen by public lets use them and move to facebook f.e.
We may be better served to keep this forum focused on main purpose - gold refining. When we mention AR, nitric, gold in thread like this we only create one more entry in search for members looking for relevant info, and that is not what they will find here.


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## joem (Dec 20, 2010)

Moderator: Please delete this thread. It is a repeat of what has been said in other threads and no longer pertains to pm recovery.


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## Harold_V (Dec 20, 2010)

joem said:


> Moderator: Please delete this thread. It is a repeat of what has been said in other threads and no longer pertains to pm recovery.


I feel it should remain as an example of what we shouldn't do, and what can be expected for those that can't keep their nose clean----_*or stay on topic*_.

I'm locking the thread, so there will be no further comments accepted. Mean time, lets try to get back on topic. If you, as readers, understood how much of my time you waste with this nonsence you might see things differently. I feel it's no different for the balance of my fellow moderators. All of us have busy lives and should not have to waste our precious time reading stupid jokes or comments that do not pertain to the scope of this forum---the promotion of safe and successful refining of precious metals. 

Harold


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