# General Question: Why do you refine sterling silver?



## Bushka (Feb 21, 2013)

As the title says, what do you do with the sterling you refine? Do you have a use for it other than as an investment for the future? Is it worth anything more after refining?

Just curious!

Dan


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## rusty (Feb 21, 2013)

Bushka said:


> As the title says, what do you do with the sterling you refine? Do you have a use for it other than as an investment for the future? Is it worth anything more after refining?
> 
> Just curious!
> 
> Dan



http://dendritics.com/metal-calc/


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## Anonymous (Feb 21, 2013)

rusty said:


> Bushka said:
> 
> 
> > As the title says, what do you do with the sterling you refine? Do you have a use for it other than as an investment for the future? Is it worth anything more after refining?
> ...


As *rusty* have posted the link, go and do the calculations on .925 silver and .999 silver. Do the same with gold and other materials. The purer it is, them more it's worth.

Sterling silver, from what I've learned about, and from what I've refined is many times copper underneath. If you get to separate the copper and silver, you'll have almost pure silver, worth more than .925 silver and even sterling silver for that matter.

What you do with the sterling you refine is either to sell it or keep it, or barter with it, or use it to do other refining with it. Heck, you can simply give it away. The choice is yours.

Kevin


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## Bushka (Feb 22, 2013)

Interesting site. BUT, sterling spot is $27 and 999 spot is $29. At $2/ozt difference, you'd make $200 more on 100 ozt of 999 silver. It seems the nitric acid and other materials would cost that much just to get it to 999. No???


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## mikeinkaty (Feb 22, 2013)

Bushka said:


> Interesting site. BUT, sterling spot is $27 and 999 spot is $29. At $2/ozt difference, you'd make $200 more on 100 ozt of 999 silver. It seems the nitric acid and other materials would cost that much just to get it to 999. No???



If you follow the sterling (quality scrap sterling) sales on eBay, you will see it is receiving bids as if it is pure silver. The bid prices have been 95% - 100%, or more, of the spot silver price and people are bidding as if the weight is 999 silver. 

If you plan on making a profit refining silver then you need to look somewhere other than eBay for your sterling.

Mike


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## Bushka (Feb 22, 2013)

mikeinkaty said:


> If you plan on making a profit refining silver then you need to look somewhere other than eBay for your sterling.
> 
> Mike



That's what kind of confused me. It seems sterling is expensive, too. How do you find scrap sterling and make a profit by refining it to 999?

Dan


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## element47.5 (Feb 22, 2013)

> Interesting site. BUT, sterling spot is $27 and 999 spot is $29. At $2/ozt difference, you'd make $200 more on 100 ozt of 999 silver. It seems the nitric acid and other materials would cost that much just to get it to 999. No???



Just a nit to pick w/your post...assuming zero losses, which is fantasy, the silver within a given weight of sterling will weigh 92.5% as much as the same amount of .999 silver. Eg; start with a kilogram of .925 silver, you'd "expect" to to end up with 925 grams of .999 if refined from that kilo of silver. But we DO have losses, and we DO find sterling in the mid to high 91% range instead of .925. And our chemicals cost. So your question is a good point, "how do you make money refining sterling". Only by buying it below its implied .999 weight and/or waiting to sell it until the spot price of silver rises. The ebay sterling market is not only viciously competitive; but anyone unwilling to pay more than pure scrap less refiner's cut is easily outbid by someone who wants an actual replacement for a fork they lost or dropped into the disposal. And yes, any fool who pays 92.5% of actual weight and then pays shipping is overpaying. And there is NOTHING so dumb as to overpay for such an inconvenient form of silver. I used to buy mucho sterling from ebay and probably acquired about 200 lbs of forks and spoons. I was very active $11-$21 and I really slowed down above $24 Ag and stopped altogether at $27. I sold off much of it at $39.50, still have a load of it, and traded lots of it to Jay, scrapman11077 on this forum, for his excellent silver rounds. I would say my average price is about $15-$17. 

The other day I found an old statement from PayPal showing all the junk silver I had bought circa 2000-2001. Three rolls of quarters for $109.75 delivered. About $3.7 * face back then. Nice. Worth about $675 today.


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## Palladium (Feb 22, 2013)

Bushka said:


> Interesting site. BUT, sterling spot is $27 and 999 spot is $29. At $2/ozt difference, you'd make $200 more on 100 ozt of 999 silver. It seems the nitric acid and other materials would cost that much just to get it to 999. No???



I can take 100 oz from sterling to 999 for $25 or less. Profit $175 give or take.


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## mikeinkaty (Feb 23, 2013)

Bushka said:


> That's what kind of confused me. It seems sterling is expensive, too. How do you find scrap sterling and make a profit by refining it to 999?
> 
> Dan



Well, you could always subscribe to estate sale listings and/or be very good at refining it.

Mike


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## Bushka (Feb 23, 2013)

element47.5 said:


> > Interesting site. BUT, sterling spot is $27 and 999 spot is $29. At $2/ozt difference, you'd make $200 more on 100 ozt of 999 silver. It seems the nitric acid and other materials would cost that much just to get it to 999. No???
> 
> 
> 
> Just a nit to pick w/your post...assuming zero losses, which is fantasy, the silver within a given weight of sterling will weigh 92.5% as much as the same amount of .999 silver. Eg; start with a kilogram of .925 silver, you'd "expect" to to end up with 925 grams of .999 if refined from that kilo of silver.



What's the nit? Are saying that they pay $27 for the sterling, but only pay $27 for 92.5% of it?


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## Bushka (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm gathering that if you do it in volume like Palladium, then you can make money on that margin. That, or buy when silver is cheap like element did.

Thanks!


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## element47.5 (Feb 23, 2013)

> What's the nit? Are saying that they pay $27 for the sterling, but only pay $27 for 92.5% of it?



No, using your numbers, I am saying that a kilo of sterling worth $27 * 32.15 tr oz = $868.05 refined to a theoretical 925 grams of .999 * 29.74 tr oz = $862.46 is actually punitive to the one who refines to .999. 

I am actually agreeing with you in every other sense of your original post, that if you buy sterling today at its scrap value and refine it and sell the resulting .999 for its scrap value today there is little or nothing to be gained other than refining experience. If you can make neat looking hand-poured bars and sell them for over spot, good for you. I think that is atypical. Realize that 99.99% of sterling items are stamped STERLING and thus are "self-assaying" (even though the assay is a skosh overstated) whereas the most beautiful, shiny, concentric-freeze-ring silver bar you or I may pour is NOT an assayed item and thus is not the same thing as a Johnson Matthey or Englehard or even Silvertowne or APMEX or AMARK or NTR or Pamp or PanAmerican bar. 

This is why, after sending in mucho sterling to that refinery in the middle of the country whose name starts with an "M" and achieving less than satisfactory results, I have instead gone with trading Jay several batches of sterling for the Golden State mint rounds he offers. Those deals have turned out perfectly, he flipped them around immediately and exactly as specified. I still have lots of sterling flatware, but most of it is either brand new or among the (what I call) "top ten" brands/lines that are always in demand. Examples would be Gorham Chantilly or Buttercup or Strasbourg, Towle Candlelight or Craftsman or Rambler Rose, International Prelude...maybe half a dozen others. I don't feel right throwing brand new Gorham sterling in original packaging into the melt bucket.


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## Palladium (Feb 23, 2013)

In the essence of profit their is some money to be made but only by running large volumes. The number i state above are only for chemical use. Your time involved to process the 100 oz is another question. Especially on small lots like above when it would take a lot of effort for $175


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## Bushka (Feb 23, 2013)

element: I got what you are saying now. You are absolutely correct.

palladium: Is it the same situation with gold? I guess there isn't much "goldware" around to refine, so I guess the value in gold is in recovering it from computers and other electronics.

Dan


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## NobleMetalWorks (Feb 23, 2013)

Bushka said:


> Interesting site. BUT, sterling spot is $27 and 999 spot is $29. At $2/ozt difference, you'd make $200 more on 100 ozt of 999 silver. It seems the nitric acid and other materials would cost that much just to get it to 999. No???



I get well over spot for the silver and gold I refine.

If you are selling to a refinery, you get whatever that particular refinery pays out for silver, however, if you are selling to a jeweler, or casting into bars and selling it that way, you can command a premium above spot.

You can make even more if you are turning your refined metal into a retail product, often times you can sell for 50% above spot or better, depending on what the item is.

In the end, it's how you sell your refined material that should dictate how pure you refine it.

Scott


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## element47.5 (Feb 23, 2013)

On the contrary, there are kilotons of junk and good, broken, but no-longer-wanted jewelry out there, and scamming it out of people is a giant industry.


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## kadriver (Feb 24, 2013)

Bushka,

Your profit MUST be made when you buy. I don't know where you live, but where I am located there is a rich source of scrap gold and silver if you know where to look.

I try to buy sterling and 925 silver for as little as possible, we usually pay about 10 cents to 25 cents per gram on average.

Yard sales, thrift stores, consignment shops, estate sales.

I recently found a 14k gold necklace at an estate sale for $5 - the mark was incorrectly stamped, you could only see the top of the "4" and part of the "k" and the 1 was missing all together.

It weighed 24 grams valued at about $700 - of course my wife seen it and immediately wanted to keep it - so I agreed and she wears it daily.

BUT, the only reason i was ale to spot this error (thats where you make your money - shopping for other peoples errors) was due to my years of experience looking at and evaluating pieces of gold and silver jewelry.

My wife bought a small gold pendant with a large CZ for $1.99 at the thrift store. There was no mark on the metal so the folks at the thrift store assumed it was just a piece of costume jewelry (thats why it was priced so low). My wife, who can spot a piece of gold at 10 paces, could tell by the look of the piece that it was gold, and that the person pricing the item had made an error so she bought it. Turned out to be 14k gold just like she thought.

But the real kicker is this; the CZ was NOT a CZ. It was a 1.2 carat DIAMOND! She took it to the "Diamond Exchange" in Mount Pleasant and they offered her $1200 on the spot.

You can make money on eBay buying silver if you know what to look for and you are very careful. One wrong move and you can ruin all the profit.

kadriver


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## Bushka (Feb 24, 2013)

Kadriver I'm in northern NJ. Occasionally we'll go to yard sales or consignment shops looking for Fiestaware, so I'll take your words of advice. I guess I need to get a gold test solution since I pretty much don't know what I'm looking at otherwise. :shock: 

Thanks.


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## saadat68 (Nov 5, 2017)

Hi
Which is correct?

We have 100 gram silver sterling scraps so they contain 92.5 gram silver
Price for 999 silver is 0.55 USD per gram 

We must pay money for 85 percent of 92.5 gram silver 
92.5 x 0.55 = 50.87 USD
50.87 x 85% = 43.24 USD 

We must pay money for 85 percent of silver sterling 
100 gram sterling x 85% = 85 gram 
85 x 0.55 = 46.75 USD


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## snoman701 (Nov 5, 2017)

I don't think you are making much sense.

Your numbers suggest you are trying to determine what you can pay on silver to make a profit.

Silver at 16.80 / toz ==> 16.80 USD / 31.1035 g = 0.54 USD / gram Ag

Traditional Sterling is 92.5% Ag / 7.5% Cu, thus 0.54 USD * .925 = 0.50 USD / gram Sterling Silver

What you buy/sell at is determined by your market.


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## saadat68 (Nov 5, 2017)

Thanks
I want to know formula ? I searched in forum and many of users say we pay 85 percent 
But I didn't understand 85 percent of silver value or sterling


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## snoman701 (Nov 5, 2017)

saadat68 said:


> Thanks
> I want to know formula ? I searched in forum and many of users say we pay 85 percent
> But I didn't understand 85 percent of silver value or sterling



Either way...you buy it as cheap as you can.

If I'm offering someone cash on the spot, I'll offer 75% of melt (75% of fine silver value). If I'm buying competitively, I'll pay more.


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## saadat68 (Nov 5, 2017)

OK got it
Your formula is like this calculator: 
http://www.mandmgoldexchange.com/gold_calculator.html

Just you buy 75% and they buy 85%. Right?


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## 4metals (Nov 5, 2017)

Try this sheet, it allows for charging 75% to 85% when buying 925 sterling. 

All you can change is the price of silver, the program does the rest.

View attachment sterling buy sheet.xlsx


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## saadat68 (Nov 5, 2017)

Thank you 
I got it. Here I think 84 percent is common but I need more research in local market


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## silversaddle1 (Nov 6, 2017)

There's another point of view here. I make conchos and spots for horse tack out of sterling. The customer pays for X amount of sterling to make each concho. Any scrap left over is mine. So I have zero in it. It is well worth it to me to have these cans of scrap sterling silver refined into bars or rounds just to save storage space.


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## 4metals (Nov 6, 2017)

> I make conchos and spots for horse tack out of sterling.



So that's why you use silver saddle as a forum name, makes sense!

I tried google and it cannot define concho. Can you describe what a concho or a spot is, as it related to horse tack?


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## FrugalRefiner (Nov 6, 2017)

See OK guys, I'm asking for some advice..

Dave


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