# Telecom board samples



## kjavanb123 (Nov 10, 2016)

All,

In continuation to our smelting video, we depopulated following boards, and smelted the components.

Boards consist of 72 kg (158 lbs) telecom boards as shown below,













More photos in next threat.


----------



## kjavanb123 (Nov 10, 2016)

There were 8 server boards, and total of 6 large telecom boards with lots of ICs as seen in photos below,







The batch we smelted also consisted of 8 kg of misc cards (graphic, sound, network, etc cards).

There was 20 kg small CPU socket motherboards and 10 kg large CPU socket motherboards as seen in photos below,







Regards
Kj


----------



## kjavanb123 (Nov 10, 2016)

All,

In regards to my telecom boards post under the "Types of PM scrap", which consisted of 72 kg (158 lbs) mixed telecom and some server boards, 8 kg (17 lbs) mixed graphics, network and sound cards.
20 kg (44 lbs) small CPU socket motherboards, and 10 kg (22 lbs) large CPU socket motherboards.

Gold button weighs 10.330 grams and assay 936.



Regards
Kj


----------



## anachronism (Nov 10, 2016)

Kevin

How have these been processed because your bar represents a mere fraction of the gold that you should have recovered.

Where is the majority of it?


----------



## kjavanb123 (Nov 10, 2016)

Hi,

We used the same smelting equipments and procedure for this lot as for previous lot of 34 kg mixed small and large CPU socket motherboards.

I was skeptical when first saw the gold powder from our smelting, but by looking at the dark brown palladium nitrate solution from smelting the same materials, I suspect most of the ICs used palladium.

Regards
Kj


----------



## kurtak (Nov 10, 2016)

anachronism said:


> Kevin
> 
> How have these been processed because your bar represents a mere fraction of the gold that you should have recovered.
> 
> Where is the majority of it?



Jon 

It came from these boards :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=24795#p262192

So really - considering that there is a fair amount of lower grade boards in with the higher (telecom grade) the 10 grams recovery is not to bad for the 158 pounds of starter material --- depending on how you look at it - ether the small socket mother boards brought down the recovery of the telecom - or - the telecom brought up the recovery of the small sockets 

In reality it was a batch of "mixed" boards - not really a batch of telecom & if you do the math it comes out at about 4 ozt per ton - which though "maybe" a little low - its in a plus/minus margin I would expect (based on the "mix" I see) --- at best (its hard to tell by pics) he might have run short by 2 - 3 grams on the batch (or an ozt per ton)

Keven 

It would be nice if you put ALL of your posts "related" to the "same" batch in the same thread rather then spreading it out to 3 threads about the same batch - spreading it out over more then one thread makes it hard to follow the process of starting material to finished recovery

Could one of the mods maybe combine these three threads into one ?

This thread 

Plus :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=24795&p=262192#p262192

Plus :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=24798&p=262196#p262196

Kurt


----------



## anachronism (Nov 10, 2016)

In terms of the ratios of Gold/Palladium in general networking boards you're looking in the region 4.5:1, so given your gold yield that would be approx 2.2g of Pd.

I promise you that you are not recovering all the values.

Kurt I have to disagree mate. I double checked against the weights and pictures on the other thread. These yields are nowhere near what should have been recovered.


----------



## anachronism (Nov 10, 2016)

Let me add some maths to this in the hope of making things clearer. 

You have a total sample size of 110Kg with a gold yield of 10.33g which equates to an overall return of 93.9ppm Au.

The lowest type of board in that batch is the S775 PC boards (steel socket) and those refine out to more than that! You're losing large percentages of gold and you need to address this in your process. I'm happy to help but you need to understand that if you're looking to do this for other people they are not going to be happy with these numbers. Lose your own gold by all means but not somebody else's gold  

Whilst it's possible that you have a particular batch with no gold in it, it is highly unlikely given the product shown.


----------



## kjavanb123 (Nov 10, 2016)

Anachronism,

This was my own batch, so it was not from a client. Again majority of the 158 lbs of telecom boards were considered low in Au, but again from the palladium nitrate solution color and later stage of Pd refining from the volume of canary yellow powder, it seem like Pd and Ag will be the profit.
Also you need to consider the weight of materials and expected gold.

Kurtak,
Thanks for your comment. Sure I will try to post under one thread. 

My partner just got 104 kg of mixed small and large CPU socket motherboards and 16 kg of mixed grahic, sound cards etc. 

This is going to be our next batch. 

Regards
Kj


----------



## anachronism (Nov 10, 2016)

kjavanb123 said:


> Anachronism,
> 
> This was my own batch, so it was not from a client. Again majority of the 158 lbs of telecom boards were considered low in Au, but again from the palladium nitrate solution color and later stage of Pd refining from the volume of canary yellow powder, it seem like Pd and Ag will be the profit.
> Also you need to consider the weight of materials and expected gold.



Kevin I do consider the weights and expected gold. I refine commercially and have plenty of actual refinery returns on all the types of material you processed, and this was the basis upon which I have made my comments. That hard data is (if you excuse the pun) worth it's weight in gold.

Edit: Having read Lou's post on your other thread regarding the Pd, I would suggest that relying upon the Pd and Ag is not a sure fire option.


----------



## kurtak (Nov 10, 2016)

anachronism said:


> You have a total sample size of 110Kg



Ahhh - OK - apparently I misunderstood --- I thought the total sample size was 72kg of which 8kg was miscellaneous cards, 10kg large socket MB, 20kg small socket MB & the remainder (38kg) telecom & some server boards

So yes - if the sample/batch size is actually 110kg - then its falling quit short - especially considering 72kg of the 110kg is network boards

Kurt


----------



## kjavanb123 (Nov 10, 2016)

On that note then, some of the gold is missing during oxidiZation of lead, because the stationary furnace was small this time as they put the lead dore ingots into it would push some of the molten lead out without oxidizing then skimming off the lead oxide.

We will double check that for next batch which is going to be a more consistant batch of small and large CPU socket motherboards.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards
Kj


----------



## clearsteam (Nov 10, 2016)

Are you pyrolizing before smelting? This would make a difference.

Although you say you are pyrolizing both stages of your video appear to show smelting. Maybe it was just the way thevideo was cut, but it appears as if all the chips are fed into the smelting furnace raw.

If you have the equipment pyrolize the chips for an hour or more at above 550c (ideally 850 for me to lose all the metals below copper). all that remains will be ash silicon dies and silver ,gold and pgms. If you go straight to smelting I suspect a lot of values would be lost. 

(I am a novice and still reading, its just what I have gathered readingand learning how to use a small muffle furnace)


----------



## kjavanb123 (Nov 10, 2016)

Clearstream,

Thanks for your comment. I presume your suggestion would make sense if one try to melt a batch of ICs then it would make sense.

In my case, after depopulating boards all components including ICs and slots aluminum caps etc undergo a pyrolysis then to rotary furnace for smelting.

I have tested this before and also from our smelting procedure, pyrolyzing or not pyrolyzing ICs or SMDs make no difference, as lead oxide during smelt will eat everything up and alloy with metals in materials.

Again, our next batch which has more known type of boards, will tell how efficent our process is.

Regards
Kj


----------



## clearsteam (Nov 10, 2016)

Thanks for your reply, 
it is still not clear what process you are using before the smelting, in the same paragraph you say that you do, then you say that it doesnt make a difference. Perhaps its the language barrier. If you are applying heat beforehand, are you pyrolising? (heat without oxygen) or incinerating (burning in presence of Oxygen)?,both will lose values in the fly-ash, but much less will be lost with true pyrolysis, oxidizing the carbon only when the hot charge is brought into oxygen rich air again. If your metal is molten at the end of pyrolysis it is better termed first smelting surely and many more values would be lost by not doing a proper pyrolysis first. 

In Uk scrap refiners, pyrolisis is only allowed for an assay of a small sample, the rest is processed by shredding, then magnets, then chemical/electrical /smelting processes and up to 40% of the gold values flow off with the plastics because EU regulations prevent them from pyrolising all of it at the start.


----------



## kjavanb123 (Nov 10, 2016)

Clearstream,

Our smelting is based on using lead oxide plus fluxes and components in a rotary furnace.

This part melt down everything metallic and alloy them with lead, and plastics and non metallics end up in slags.

The produced lead ingots then are fed into a stationary furnace where they get oxidized and the oxide layer is skimmed off, while a known amount of silver is added to molten lead which collects all the PMs.

Skimming off the lead oxide continous until only silver which does not oxidize remain, that silver is cooled off, brushed off from any impurities and dissolved in nitric to get gold, silver and palladium nitrate solution then chemically separated and precipated.

I posted a video of this process titled Smelting video.

As for pyrolysis and incineration, I have tested both methods before, and we use pyrolysis on components before we smelt them.

No losses experienced on components from boards, I only recall reading about possible losses occure when incineration or pyrolysis of keyboard mylars or x-ray films.

I once smelted components from 100 kg mixed motherboards without pyrolysis, and other times I pyrolsys, gold recovered in both cases matched.

Regards
Kj


----------



## anachronism (Nov 10, 2016)

kjavanb123 said:


> No losses experienced on components from boards, I only recall reading about possible losses occure when incineration or pyrolysis of keyboard mylars or x-ray films.
> 
> *I once smelted components from 100 kg mixed motherboards without pyrolysis, and other times I pyrolsys, gold recovered in both cases matched.*
> 
> ...



They may have matched but all that says is you lost the same amount of gold both times.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Nov 10, 2016)

I've merged the thread from the gallery into this one since there was so much discussion regarding the yield and the starting lot.

I've left the thread dealing with the palladium issues where it was, as it's dealing with a refining problem.

Dave


----------



## clearsteam (Nov 10, 2016)

Something I found last month that should be of interest regarding pyrolysis. theres much that can be taken from this for any home refiners with a muffle/ashing furnace. going straight to the melt will lose you a good 10% and I suspect much more.

High recovery recycling route of WEEE: The
potential of pyrolysis http://www.metallurgie.rwth-aachen.de/new/images/pages/publikationen/emc2015_fdiaez_id_5076.pdf


----------

