# what will 2015 bring ?



## Palladium

:?:


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## Barren Realms 007

The $1,000,000 question.


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## MarcoP

I don't want to be pessimistic, just a little sarcastic.

What will 2015 take?


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## goldsilverpro

Whatever "they" want it to bring.


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## FrugalRefiner

New opportunities!

Dave


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## necromancer

i can only hope for the same as 2014 or better :!:


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## g_axelsson

Warmer weather I hope, it's freezing here (-19 ºC or -2ºF) and the heater in the car broke down today...

Göran


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## Barren Realms 007

g_axelsson said:


> Warmer weather I hope, it's freezing here (-19 ºC or -2ºF) and the heater in the car broke down today...
> 
> Göran



Now that's cold.


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## CBentre

A guy who won't be speculating anymore that's all I can say. ......


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## Geo

Well, gold is holding steady around $1200 an ounce and gasoline keeps falling. Everything you buy from electronics to food is directly tied to the cost of fuel. The steak you bought at the grocery store may have as much as 500 gallons of fuel consumed per cow in it. From planting the seed to grow the feed to delivery of the meat to market. As the price of fuel goes down, the price of consumer goods either fall because of lower production cost or rise due to extra demand. Extra spending dollars in the pockets of consumers due to savings at the pump will see people spending more money on non-essential things like a steak dinner. This is all very good news for the economy. With gold holding steady and the buying power of the dollar on the rise, people will be able to buy physical gold causing higher demands which is shoring up the gold markets and keeping gold prices steady as other consumer goods fall.


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## nickvc

Well if the world economy is on the rise then the need to hold physical gold to protect wealth will fall, in honesty it's not all that useful to the general population except for jewellery and in consumer electronics. Fear has fed the market and if that is receding in my opinion so will the price of gold to what level is a totally different matter and I could just as easily be wrong and it could rise to another record level but one thing I do know is that we have absolutely no say in what will occur.


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## kurtak

The only thing you can be absolutely sure that 2015 will bring is another 365 & 1/4 days :lol: 

Kurt


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## kazamir

Larger and faster money printing presses.We may be watching like this. :shock:


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## solar_plasma

More low grade e-waste that isn't worth refining at present.


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## Geo

Nick, fear is still driving the market. It's just now that (at least here in America) people are having more expendable income. Everyone is wanting to hold gold but didn't have the resources to acquire it. I see a rise in the production of gold coinage because the market can now support it. Hoarding gold is alive and well. wealthy entities are stacking it as well as silver coinage. Why spend the resources to make gold coins and bars if no one can afford to buy them? I actually thought about buying some gold to hold myself instead of refining it myself. I am now getting around the same amount of gasoline for $1 that I was getting for $2 a few months ago. Believe me, it really helps out. Opening oil lands here in the states has helped in lowering the gas prices here. It has to effect the world market. I can see a sharp drop in gold prices in the long run unless a new war breaks out or some country goes into default. Barring an economic disaster, the price of gold is on the way down unless the manufacturing market picks way up. I still would buy physical gold if it were my intention on hedging for future returns.


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## necromancer

gas here in the GTA is 99.9 cents a litre (3.76 a US gallon), down from $1.45 a few months ago (5.51 a US gallon)

a gallon of 2% milk is still $4.00 and don't ask about the price of chicken or beef. (+ 13% tax)

http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/6160011-neilson-2-milk-bag-4-l/6000075838900


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## Barren Realms 007

necromancer said:


> gas here in the GTA is 99.9 cents a litre (3.76 a US gallon), down from $1.45 a few months ago (5.51 a US gallon)
> 
> a gallon of 2% milk is still $4.00 and don't ask about the price of chicken or beef. (+ 13% tax)
> 
> http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/6160011-neilson-2-milk-bag-4-l/6000075838900



Gas here is currently $2.12/gal. or close to that.


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## 4metals

Maybe this will be the year that it happens! 

The banks trade much more metal daily then even exists and drive the price (in the direction that favors their position). I've read it is as much as 100 times more than the physical. Sooner or later that bubble will burst, just like the housing bubble did. When that happens I will to be holding physical metal. 

The banks trade metal they don't even have or can't even acquire if they had to deliver all of it at once, yet they are allowed to continue. At least in the housing bubble they had to have a house to sell! In the precious metals market they're selling a promise and it's driving the market. Our predictions about market price and the logic that drove it are based on times when the actual quantities of the metals sold were in a closer approximation to what actually existed. Predicting what can happen when the metal itself is imaginary is another story. Something has to give.

Maybe this year, who knows?


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## necromancer

sky rocketing palladium prices ?

http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/pd1825nyb_.html


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## kurtak

4metals said:


> Maybe this will be the year that it happens!
> 
> The banks trade much more metal daily then even exists and drive the price (in the direction that favors their position). I've read it is as much as 100 times more than the physical. Sooner or later that bubble will burst, just like the housing bubble did. When that happens I will to be holding physical metal.
> 
> The banks trade metal they don't even have or can't even acquire if they had to deliver all of it at once, yet they are allowed to continue. At least in the housing bubble they had to have a house to sell! In the precious metals market they're selling a promise and it's driving the market. Our predictions about market price and the logic that drove it are based on times when the actual quantities of the metals sold were in a closer approximation to what actually existed. Predicting what can happen when the metal itself is imaginary is another story. Something has to give.
> 
> Maybe this year, who knows?



Like I said here :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=21425&p=221204#p221204 (in reference to the underlined in the above quote)

Kurt


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## kurtak

necromancer said:


> sky rocketing palladium prices ?
> 
> http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/pd1825nyb_.html



I have been telling people for a couple years now that if they are going to buy & hold metal that palladium is the better choice of metal

Kurt


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## Palladium

Come on silver! :mrgreen:


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## gold4mike

Looks like it might be starting to shine again...


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## necromancer

if it helps here is the historical silver charts (scroll to the bottom for the longer charts)

http://www.kitco.com/charts/historicalsilver.html


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## patnor1011

Be very afraid of further falling of price of oil. It actually do opposite than what you think, and not just destabilizing whole countries where hundreds of million people live, but our own countries will be damaged too. It will not bring anything good apart from that some entities in the middle of the chain are pocketing insane money right now. I simply cant see corporations lowering prices the same rate as they raised them every time price rose in the past. 
I have yet to see prices of anything but petrol and diesel to fall down to reflect drop in oil price.
Argument that people will be saving on gas and have more to spend on other things and how this will help economy is precisely what "they" want us to think, yet reality is funny - it is easy math. Sit down and crunch some numbers. What you are going to save will be pittance unless you do hundred miles daily. 
2015 will undoubtedly bring more uncertainty and hardship for most of the people. 

But with discussion on topic like this we are again steering in murky waters of individual beliefs, politics, conspiracies...


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## alexxx

I can't see the value of PMs going that much lower... especially silver... But, THEY will do it as long and as low as THEY can... The ponzi scheme MUST go on...

The actual cost of mining is higher than market value, way too much paper traded versus the physical available for delivery, China Russia and India still getting all they can get their hands on, record sales in the real world of physical from all the mints... Oil down... Dollar way too high... something is really happening...

On my end, the lower the prices, the better... There is still some days ahead to stack as much silver as possible, and some gold of course...
When will this madness is going to end??? Good question... maybe 2015 ? 2016 ? Soon enough...

Just stick to physical and avoid paper... and banks...

Alex


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## patnor1011

I would not be too optimistic about price rise of precious metals. Well, they most likely gain value and price may go to thousands or maybe even tens of thousands but.... it is very easy for whoever will be in charge to pull modified 6102 like FDR did. And this time not just in USA but EU and many more countries may follow the suit.


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## Palladium

patnor1011 said:


> I would not be too optimistic about price rise of precious metals. Well, they most likely gain value and price may go to thousands or maybe even tens of thousands but.... it is very easy for whoever will be in charge to pull modified 6102 like FDR did. And this time not just in USA but EU and many more countries may follow the suit.



Yep!


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## Noxx

On a side note, 2015 will be a very exciting year in astronomy!

We have New Horizon coming to Pluto and Dawn is flying towards Ceres (dward planet) in a few months.

They are both +7 years missions coming to fruition


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## necromancer

Noxx said:


> On a side note, 2015 will be a very exciting year in astronomy!
> 
> We have New Horizon coming to Pluto and Dawn is flying towards Ceres (dwarf planet) in a few months.
> 
> They are both +7 years missions coming to fruition



and there is also space travel & exploration, now that private corporations are getting involved in space travel things are getting exciting !!
spaceX's dragon spacecraft is doing things NASA couldn't. i can't imagine what the next decade will bring us all.

i was was about 2 months old when man first walked on the moon, now 45 years later there is plans for sending people to Mars.


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## alexxx

Palladium said:


> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is very easy for whoever will be in charge to pull modified 6102 like FDR did. And this time not just in USA but EU and many more countries may follow the suit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep!
Click to expand...


This is very unlikely.

Especially with Silver... There's just too much in circulation to be controlled / prohibited.
Plus, these days, we use these PMs (again, especially silver) to produce many "essential" goods, that was not the case back in the days when they were almost only used in jewelery, bullions and rare industries. The use was permitted under 6102 for industrial purposes. The % of todays pĥysical silver used for industrial purposes might be around 50%, if not more...

It would be an impossible task to track, monitor, prohibit silver in the US, or elsewhere for that matter, if the dollar would collapse and people started trading it. Gold too I would think...
And the chinese would probably do the exact opposite with their shanghai gold & silver exchange (that deals with physical), facilitating the flow of PMs with a gold backed up currency...

Complex subject indeed... We can only speculate on the outcome...

Maybe we are close to the end game, that's why I keep stacking silver... I believe in it for the "long term", not as an investment... More like a safety net, just in case...

Have you seen the 2015 australian Kookaburra ? it's beautifull.... 

http://www.apmex.com/product/84445/2015-australia-1-oz-silver-kookaburra-bu


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## Palladium

When the paper market in precious metals has been looted they will come after the physical holdings. They don't care how they do it or who doesn't like it. They will pass a law and either you comply or they will make you submit. It doesn't matter to them. Make no mistake the physical side is the holy grail they seek.


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## patnor1011

alexxx said:


> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is very easy for whoever will be in charge to pull modified 6102 like FDR did. And this time not just in USA but EU and many more countries may follow the suit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is very unlikely.
> 
> ..................
Click to expand...


On the contrary, it is fairly easy to do it. All they need to do is just plainly outlaw possession under something like "national interest" and wait. There will be plenty of people willing to earn their 30 pieces of silver by just ratting out whoever they think may have something. 
There are many things which were outlawed like canabis, guns are being slowly taken out of hands of people... 
This one is actually more easy than other, not many people do hold precious metals and it will be easy to single out big holders at first and then go after smaller hoards. Never underestimate their creativity in their quest of "taking".


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## alexxx

Palladium wrote: [/quote]It doesn't matter to them. Make no mistake the physical side is the holy grail they seek.[/quote]

patnor1011 wrote: [/quote]This one is actually more easy than other, not many people do hold precious metals and it will be easy to single out big holders at first and then go after smaller hoards. Never underestimate their creativity in their quest of "taking".[/quote]


Well this perspective is scary...

What's next when they get it all ? Land ? Water ? Physical freedom ? 

How one would protect himself and his family in 2015 and the years to come ?

Back to Eric's post, http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=21628&hilit=investment

[/quote]so here is what i think would be a better investment for your money

land with wood and a well, guns and amo, tools, farm animal, medical equipment and supply

touth brush, bleach, 40% alcool, bic ligther, deodorant, big bag of floor, rice, pasta and sugar, dog food, a good old gold watch,

so what would you guess that would be better than gold or silver.[/quote]


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## Palladium

alexxx said:


> What's next when they get it all ? Land ? Water ? Physical freedom ?



Actually they already have control of all of that now. You only have the illusion of those things to make you believe. 
Canada may be different, but the illusion is still the same.


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## necromancer

Palladium said:


> alexxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's next when they get it all ? Land ? Water ? Physical freedom ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually they already have control of all of that now. You only have the illusion of those things to make you believe.
> Canada may be different, but the illusion is still the same.
Click to expand...


no, canada is no different. thanks to our prime minister we are becoming more like the US every day.

i don't mean like the american people, i mean controlled by the powers that be, i haven't seen any use of drones in our skies (yet)

but changes arise that do make some of these changes necessary. but the board rules suggest that is a conversation for somewhere else.


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## Geo

I don't know about other places but in Alabama, there is no safe haven when your talking about land. There will never be anything like "squatters rights" like you hear elsewhere. All land in Alabama is posted whether there is a sign up or not. You are trespassing on any land that is not public grounds. Large tracts of country side that looks like open property is all owned by someone and the law says that unless you are the owner, you have no legal right to be there. Therefore, if you happen to be on open property and spotted by any law enforcement official, you can be stopped and questioned. You must provide ID or you can be held up to 72 hours for identification purposes. If you can identify yourself, you are asked to provide proof you have a legal right to be there. If you can not provide proof, you will be ordered to move to public property or the nearest road.


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## Palladium

necromancer said:


> but the board rules suggest that is a conversation for somewhere else.



This is not a political discussion. Political and religious discussions happen when you become ideological. We live in a politically correct world where we are afraid to discuss something because it will somehow offend someone. Someone is always going to be offended no matter what the subject matter is, be it political or the type of puppy dog one likes. NOT to discuss something only serves those who wish to silence the opposing side of a discussion.


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## Palladium

Totalitarianism is never content to rule by external means, namely, through the state and a machinery of violence; thanks to its peculiar ideology and the role assigned to it in this apparatus of coercion, totalitarianism has discovered a means of dominating and terrorizing human beings from within ones self.
or
Self censorship.


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## necromancer

Palladium said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> but the board rules suggest that is a conversation for somewhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a political discussion. Political and religious discussions happen when you become ideological. We live in a politically correct world where we are afraid to discuss something because it will somehow offend someone. Someone is always going to be offended no matter what the subject matter is, be it political or the type of puppy dog one likes. NOT to discuss something only serves those who wish to silence the opposing side of a discussion.
Click to expand...



i just didn't want it to go into political or ideological conversation. (i would have 100% headed that way)

as a Canadian i know i have the right to vote, the right to be anywhere public at any time of day or night, the right to free speech & the right to peaceful demonstration. i also know that i *do not* have the right *not to be* offended or insulted. and i think that is a very good thing !

simply taking into account that this is a international forum about gold recovery & refining. last thing i want is "another" warning PM form a mod.


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## Palladium

It's all good brother!


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## rickbb

Geo said:


> I don't know about other places but in Alabama, there is no safe haven when your talking about land. There will never be anything like "squatters rights" like you hear elsewhere. All land in Alabama is posted whether there is a sign up or not. You are trespassing on any land that is not public grounds. Large tracts of country side that looks like open property is all owned by someone and the law says that unless you are the owner, you have no legal right to be there. Therefore, if you happen to be on open property and spotted by any law enforcement official, you can be stopped and questioned. You must provide ID or you can be held up to 72 hours for identification purposes. If you can identify yourself, you are asked to provide proof you have a legal right to be there. If you can not provide proof, you will be ordered to move to public property or the nearest road.



Here in North Carolina you have to post your property before anyone can be arrested for trespassing. You can order them to leave your property, (takes 2 times and the LEO has to hear you say it), and then they can be arrested if they don't leave. Which takes care of any would be squatters but leaves it open for people to just walk through or even hunt on it in the case of land speculators who own the land but don't live on or any where near it. 

As for being stopped and searched, that can happen anywhere in the US at any time. All that's needed is for the LEO to "think" you look suspicious, and you can be ordered to stop, empty your pockets and if you don't comply, felony resisting. Boom. This is what has NYPD mad at the mayor, he wants them to stop the stop and frisk program, which in my mind is as un-constitutional as it gets. 

Can you imagine just walking down the street minding your own business and a cop walks up, puts you in hand cuffs, empty's your pockets on the sidewalk, looks up your ID and if you demand to know what for, go to jail for "resisting"? And heaven forbid if you have a few thousand dollars on you, they can take it from you right then and there, no questions asked. "Drug money" is all they have to say, boom your is money gone. You have to get a lawyer and sue them to get it back, if you ever do. You don't even have to be charged with anything, nothing, your money is still gone. I hate to even think what would happen to you if you get "caught" with a pocket full of little gold bars or silver. 

This is not things that "may" happen, it's the law of the land right now, has been since 1981.


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## necromancer

rickbb said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about other places but in Alabama, there is no safe haven when your talking about land. There will never be anything like "squatters rights" like you hear elsewhere. All land in Alabama is posted whether there is a sign up or not. You are trespassing on any land that is not public grounds. Large tracts of country side that looks like open property is all owned by someone and the law says that unless you are the owner, you have no legal right to be there. Therefore, if you happen to be on open property and spotted by any law enforcement official, you can be stopped and questioned. You must provide ID or you can be held up to 72 hours for identification purposes. If you can identify yourself, you are asked to provide proof you have a legal right to be there. If you can not provide proof, you will be ordered to move to public property or the nearest road.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here in North Carolina you have to post your property before anyone can be arrested for trespassing. You can order them to leave your property, (takes 2 times and the LEO has to hear you say it), and then they can be arrested if they don't leave. Which takes care of any would be squatters but leaves it open for people to just walk through or even hunt on it in the case of land speculators who own the land but don't live on or any where near it.
> 
> As for being stopped and searched, that can happen anywhere in the US at any time. All that's needed is for the LEO to "think" you look suspicious, and you can be ordered to stop, empty your pockets and if you don't comply, felony resisting. Boom. This is what has NYPD mad at the mayor, he wants them to stop the stop and frisk program, which in my mind is as un-constitutional as it gets.
> 
> Can you imagine just walking down the street minding your own business and a cop walks up, puts you in hand cuffs, empty's your pockets on the sidewalk, looks up your ID and if you demand to know what for, go to jail for "resisting"? And heaven forbid if you have a few thousand dollars on you, they can take it from you right then and there, no questions asked. "Drug money" is all they have to say, boom your is money gone. You have to get a lawyer and sue them to get it back, if you ever do. You don't even have to be charged with anything, nothing, your money is still gone. I hate to even think what would happen to you if you get "caught" with a pocket full of little gold bars or silver.
> 
> This is not things that "may" happen, it's the law of the land right now, has been since 1981.
Click to expand...


sounds like the toronto area police. rape you in the middle of the road & then make up some excuse to make it look like they had reason.
and everyone knows "the police would never lie"......... but there is only millions of stories about the police & misuse of authority.


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## Palladium

THE worse show ever put on tv in my opinion was "Cops".
It glorified the police violating peoples rights and made it cool. Now it's just accepted practice!


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## necromancer

Palladium said:


> THE worse show ever put on tv in my opinion was "Cops".
> It glorified the police violating peoples rights and made it cool. Now it's just accepted practice!



and that was the plan. cops all over the world watching and thinking "i can do that"


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## rickbb

Palladium said:


> THE worse show ever put on tv in my opinion was "Cops".
> It glorified the police violating peoples rights and made it cool. Now it's just accepted practice!



I agree, I watched one episode where they stopped some old drunk on a bicycle at night because he doesn't have a light on it, then they taze him and arrest him because he "resisted" and didn't "comply" with the officers "commands".

The old guy was just trying to get home, geeze leave him alone. Was that really worth the tax payers money, bust a old drunk guy on a bicycle just trying to get home?


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## Palladium

They got George Jones on a riding lawn mower ! :mrgreen: 

Check this guy out!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmZaUT4_bU4[/youtube]


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## Barren Realms 007

Palladium said:


> They got George Jones on a riding lawn mower ! :mrgreen:
> 
> Check this guy out!
> 
> [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmZaUT4_bU4[/youtube]



He has the right to go to jail for stupidity.


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## 4metals

It would be interesting to see what happened to the guy. And so many cops wonder why nobody respects them any more!


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## Palladium

I noticed in the beginning of the video it looked like they were on private property. Then i heard the cop say " Old something another road " and wondered if it was an abandoned road or private property. He kind of looked like he was hiding himself from something when the guy just happened along and the cop seen him, that's not a normal road or place for that cop to be i don't think. I know around here if the road and right of way is not maintained by the city they the city doesn't have jurisdiction to write you a ticket. Just because a road has a name doesn't mean it's patrolable by a government entity. Roads are assigned names on private property for the sake of 911 service around here, but the fact remains it's still private property. So if that was the case then i say yes the guy can ride his lawnmower where he wants. Follow him to town, get it on the dash cam, and then enact your traffic stop lawfully. If he was on private property then everything the drunk guy was saying was the truth and he had every right under the "color of law" to resist. I'm not anti government i just think if we are a nation of laws then dammit ALL should play by those rules.


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## Palladium

In a stunning Tuesday report, Gallup CEO and Chairman Jim Clifton revealed that “for the first time in 35 years, American business deaths now outnumber business births.”

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/01/14/economic-death-spiral-more-american-businesses-dying-than-starting/


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## rickbb

Palladium said:


> In a stunning Tuesday report, Gallup CEO and Chairman Jim Clifton revealed that “for the first time in 35 years, American business deaths now outnumber business births.”
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/01/14/economic-death-spiral-more-american-businesses-dying-than-starting/



The chickens have come home to roost. Maybe now that it's starting to affect CEO's and the board, they will think twice about shipping companies and their jobs off shore.


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## Palladium

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIhDdST27g[/youtube]


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## necromancer

and lets not forget they busted Johnny Cash for picking a flower. seems drinking and picking a flower will land you in jail in Starkville, Mississippi.
best thing is they gave him a pardon..... four years after his death.


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## necromancer

Palladium said:


> I noticed in the beginning of the video it looked like they were on private property. Then i heard the cop say " Old something another road " and wondered if it was an abandoned road or private property. He kind of looked like he was hiding himself from something when the guy just happened along and the cop seen him, that's not a normal road or place for that cop to be i don't think. I know around here if the road and right of way is not maintained by the city they the city doesn't have jurisdiction to write you a ticket. Just because a road has a name doesn't mean it's patrolable by a government entity. Roads are assigned names on private property for the sake of 911 service around here, but the fact remains it's still private property. So if that was the case then i say yes the guy can ride his lawnmower where he wants. Follow him to town, get it on the dash cam, and then enact your traffic stop lawfully. If he was on private property then everything the drunk guy was saying was the truth and he had every right under the "color of law" to resist. I'm not anti government i just think if we are a nation of laws then dammit ALL should play by those rules.




it looks like the cop was waiting for "Steve" guess you can't tazer anyone giving out parking tickets in town. (PURE EVIL)


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## solar_plasma

Thanks for getting a vision of where we will be in Europe in 10 or 20 years. It is the fear that makes people call for more safety and less freedom..._Fear is the path to the Dark Side._ (Yoda)


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## necromancer

solar_plasma said:


> Thanks for getting a vision of where we will be in Europe in 10 or 20 years. It is the fear that makes people call for more safety and less freedom..._Fear is the path to the Dark Side._ (Yoda)



you won't have to wait that long, have you watched the news ??

“Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.”
- Yoda


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## solar_plasma

Yes I have. But the europeans are some funny peoples, the danes voted down the euro against their own government's will, the germans forced Shell without knowing hard facts to scrap an offshore platform instead of dumping it, -just by stop buying there. Scotland nearly became an independant state. You never know for sure, what comes next. :lol: 

We still have some arch democratic structures here.


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## necromancer

do you mean "harsh" democratic structures ?


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## solar_plasma

I mean that the mean people have a lot of power by chosing what they spend their money on, by changing their mind about political parties and by going to the court. And it can get fast, they are comparably well educated and dynamic.


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## necromancer

that sounds like much of the world.


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## Palladium

WOW ! I can't wait until i'm this good refining gold! :mrgreen: 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk&x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534[/youtube]


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## kurtak

:shock: WOW :!: --- & I thought I was good at getting a consistent group of three in a 3 inch circle from 20 yards with a conventional re-curve bow (which I can no longer shoot due to hand injury)

Kurt


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## Palladium

Forget gold! This is where i'm going to invest my money!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOJaDDO38kk[/youtube]


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## Palladium

Just finished my latest centrifuge project.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq6T5BojXc8&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]


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## kurtak

:shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: Just goes to show - there's more then one way to scrap a washer 8) :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Kurt


----------



## johnleivers15

reminds me of my days of being a singleton...I used to have foam party's round my house (dads house) using the washing machine........ was a good time!!!


----------



## Palladium

The run on the market has started! There's shortages in Beijing, China!
New field of exciting exploration has driven the gold market to new heights much like fracking has for oil!
Markets react in sudden surge for demand!
Gold is the new crack of the bull market!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569660/Chinese-pan-for-gold-in-the-sewage.html


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Palladium said:


> The run on the market has started! There's shortages in Beijing, China!
> New field of exciting exploration has driven the gold market to new heights much like fracking has for oil!
> Markets react in sudden surge for demand!
> Gold is the new crack of the bull market!
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569660/Chinese-pan-for-gold-in-the-sewage.html



That give new meaning to what has been happening to gold spot prices. Falling in the crapper. :roll:


----------



## Palladium

Yep! But like with any good stepchild you can only beat him down so much! He will act out and when he does it will be attention getting!
The demand is in the market. I had two phone call from people wanting gold today because of the market price be down. I had to turn them away. I have one client who bids for all my clients sales and right now he's taking it all! Theirs no room for anybody else. Now true i'm just a small fish in this big pond, but i get the feeling theirs starting to be more fish than fish food! The markets not right for the economy. I have a feeling were haven't been coming out of an economic depression, but merely riding the low point of a trough up to it's rise ready to plummet from the crest into the on coming turbulence again. Call me crazy! :mrgreen:


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Palladium said:


> Yep! But like with any good stepchild you can only beat him down so much! He will act out and when he does it will be attention getting!
> The demand is in the market. I had two phone call from people wanting gold today because of the market price be down. I had to turn them away. I have one client who bids for all my clients sales and right now he's taking it all! Theirs no room for anybody else. Now true i'm just a small fish in this big pond, but i get the feeling theirs starting to be more fish than fish food! The markets not right for the economy. I have a feeling were haven't been coming out of an economic depression, but merely riding the low point of a trough up to it's rise ready to plummet from the crest into the on coming turbulence again. Call me crazy! :mrgreen:



I'm in agreement with you on these point's. I thought the last rise was going to be the take off but it didn't happen. Paitence


----------



## g_axelsson

Palladium said:


> The run on the market has started! There's shortages in Beijing, China!
> New field of exciting exploration has driven the gold market to new heights much like fracking has for oil!
> Markets react in sudden surge for demand!
> Gold is the new crack of the bull market!
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569660/Chinese-pan-for-gold-in-the-sewage.html


Yes, it has started but the price at 385 pound per ounce quoted at the end seemed way too low to be correct... until you check the date of the article. It was written in 2007!

If you just now notices the run on the market you have already lost! :mrgreen: 

Göran


----------



## solar_plasma

:mrgreen: I love to read your posts, guys!!!

I started reading, stopped breathing, checked the spot prices...lower than the last weeks...my heart stopped beating for a moment: what did I miss?? ...okay, better reading on and.... having the best laugh of the day!


----------



## kurtak

solar_plasma said:


> :mrgreen: I love to read your posts, guys!!!
> 
> I started reading, stopped breathing, checked the spot prices...lower than the last weeks...my heart stopped beating for a moment: what did I miss?? ...okay, better reading on and.... having the best laugh of the day!



Yes indeed :lol: :mrgreen: 

Kurt


----------



## solar_plasma

I didn't know where to post it, but I wanted to share this link about very impressive photos with historical character:

http://pulptastic.com/40-rare-historical-photographs-must-see/


----------



## Palladium

The power of the picture!
Thanks for sharing!


----------



## maynman1751

Very cool! I don't think that I could paint the tower or the bridge!!!! :shock: At second thought, I know I couldn't!!!!! Barrrfffff!!!!!! :lol: Great pics of great and horrible history. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Geo

4 children for sale, Inquire within? And she was hiding her face in shame, poor thing. She must have been pretty embarrassed posting a sign like a person would if they were selling puppies. Can you imagine years later when someone would call one of them worthless? "No I'm not. My mom said I was worth $5."

I know that time has a way of changing things, but I can't imagine a world where I would consider selling one of my children. I can see me killing or dying to keep them though.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Geo said:


> 4 children for sale, Inquire within? And she was hiding her face in shame, poor thing. She must have been pretty embarrassed posting a sign like a person would if they were selling puppies. Can you imagine years later when someone would call one of them worthless? "No I'm not. My mom said I was worth $5."
> 
> I know that time has a way of changing things, but I can't imagine a world where I would consider selling one of my children. I can see me killing or dying to keep them though.



The depression.


----------



## METLMASHER

Someone paying for them, provides proof of a disposable income, enough to spare beyond keeping the children alive. Most likely, it was an attempt to save them from starvation.


----------



## 4metals

So this is my moment of fame, somewhere in photo 19 you can find me. Unlike Mr Clinton I was likely inhaling!


----------



## Barren Realms 007

4metals said:


> So this is my moment of fame, somewhere in photo 19 you can find me. Unlike Mr Clinton I was likely inhaling!



That's priceless...


----------



## Palladium

Get you chemicals now! It won't be long before you won't be able to. 
http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/tsca-reform-detailed-analysis-of-frank-01972/


----------



## solar_plasma

Would this protect us against highly toxic, mutagen and biological persistant agricultural chemicals, too? :mrgreen: Probably not...


----------



## rickbb

I tried to read that but dang near fell asleep. Whew.


----------



## Palladium

You have to pass it to find out what's in it ! :mrgreen:


----------



## METLMASHER

Valid point. The trend is to bore even the analysts to tears, so that they show up, bleary and drowsy, and wanting to look like they read the whole thing. 

If anyone _has_ read it, kudos for your diligence! Please quote it, if any part of it was worth reading. I have *no* time for political cr4p, and that is pages of exactly that. At age 44, I value my time quite a bit more highly than that, which is why I spend it here.


----------



## Palladium

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcmIkaNt2_4[/youtube]


----------



## acpeacemaker

2015 has brought me a saddened heart.I had to admit my little 11 year old girl into a mental rehab. The doctor had a strong diagnosis of symptoms for psycosis and/or schizophrenia. The only thing I can do is stay highly motivated, educated, and embrace what I can with open and loving arms.

Andrew


----------



## FrugalRefiner

Andrew, I'm very sorry to hear that. I hope they can find some therapy that will help her deal with her condition. My thoughts will be with you.

Dave


----------



## Geo

acpeacemaker said:


> 2015 has brought me a saddened heart.I had to admit my little 11 year old girl into a mental rehab. The doctor had a strong diagnosis of symptoms for psycosis and/or schizophrenia. The only thing I can do is stay highly motivated, educated, and embrace what I can with open and loving arms.
> 
> Andrew



Andrew, I am sorry to hear about your troubles. I have taken care of someone close to me with sever bipolar disorder for a long time. It's not easy being a caregiver and it's even harder when it's a child. Stay strong.


----------



## Barren Realms 007

acpeacemaker said:


> 2015 has brought me a saddened heart.I had to admit my little 11 year old girl into a mental rehab. The doctor had a strong diagnosis of symptoms for psycosis and/or schizophrenia. The only thing I can do is stay highly motivated, educated, and embrace what I can with open and loving arms.
> 
> Andrew



Very sorry to hear this. You have the heart and support of the forum. Is it the little one in the picture playing?


----------



## Palladium

I'm also sorry to hear about your daughter brother! I'll say a prayer for your family tonight!


----------



## acpeacemaker

Thank you guys for the encouragement and support. Parenting isn't easy as is, but this is a whole different ballgame. I am ever so greatful that i have been hardwired with more patience than most. 
Being around the health field for a decent part of my life. One thing I've learned is always get a second opinion. I definitely intend to do so. The problem is we nor the counselors can depict if part of it is lies trying to defy getting in trouble. Or if she really hears voices or a little of both. The other is her temper which goes to 100 in a split second and literally comes from nothing. Plus add all the new stuff a girl gets around this age, so she is really out of balance right now. I wish this on no one as its already been more than a rough beginning. The worst feeling is hugging your 11 year old daughter in tears behind locked doors. With both feeling like she is being punished for expressing what's going on in her head.

Barren,
The pic of the little girl is my 3 year old. This situation is with my 11 year old which actually they are literally a spitting image of each other.

Thank you guys
Andrew

Ps Thank you Pd, we most certainly can use as many as we can get.


----------



## solar_plasma

I wish you and your family all the best, Andrew! In hard times I try to say myself, hey, it could have been worse and then I focus on what still is good (in fact those will seriously be my last thoughts). There seem to be 60% chances, that juvenile schizophrenia will not get chronified. Also a sudden development seems to have better prognosis, that if it came sneaking. So, there are good reasons to think the best. I guess you know this already. 

My prayers are with you and your daughter.


----------



## maynman1751

Best wishes for you, your daughter and your family. You have the support of your second family here. I know a caregivers life is not easy. Stay strong Brother.


----------



## acpeacemaker

She gets to come home Monday. The doctor has her on a low dose of abilify and will be shooting for a winging off point in approximately 6 months. Your right Bjorn, there is a strong possibility that she can come away from it or it not sticking altogether. (I think that is what you meant by chronified but wasnt sure.) 
The one thing about the medicine was if we cut her off too soon; her having a relapse would be way worse. 

Anways thanks to all,
Andrew


----------



## Geo

Educate yourself about all meds you or loved ones are taking. Even though the side effects are real and shouldn't be ignored, sometimes they are a necessary evil. Abilify and drugs like it tend to cause suicidal thoughts and seems to effect females twice as bad as males. Learn the signs and symptoms because when it comes to that, there may not be a second chance. http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/abilify/suicidal+thoughts

Not trying to scare you but the professionals very nearly killed my wife a few years back. They put her on a drug that requires bi-monthly blood test and didn't test her once in the three months she was on it. By the time I realized that something was bad wrong, she was almost dead from lithium toxicity. I didn't know the symptoms and every time I asked her how she was feeling, it was always "I'm fine. I feel good". I took her to the local ER and they did some test and told us to go home and they would follow up the next day. By the time we arrived home, the hospital was calling saying there was an ambulance on the way to pick her up, she had a lethal dose of lithium in her blood. we made it to the hospital before the ambulance made to my home. She spent two days in the ICU and three days in a regular room over thanksgiving holiday. She was released thanksgiving evening. I was with her when she finally came to herself. Up until that moment, everything was fine and the world was great. She looked at me and asked where she was and I broke down. And the doctor that prescribed the meds and the clinic she was going to said, "oops, our bad" and that was it. Since she didn't die and there was no (visual) permanent damage, no lawyer would accept to represent us in a malpractice suit. 

Educate yourself and don't rely on the doctors to do the right thing.


----------



## acpeacemaker

Geo I'm with you 100% 
I'm really sorry you had to go through that situation. What a terrible ordeal. I actually have a simalar story about a nurse that killed my father in law. She kept giving him to much of (something that really slows the heart down). When it wasn't needed at all and he never came to. Turned out all she got was a slap on the wrist.

I do appreciate the concerns and awareness of the side effects. I have tossed it over in my head quite a bit. So much as to the point of myself almost having a breakdown. I talked with the doctor, counselors, and her caseworker. Which the caseworker was the best help. What it boils down to is you alone know your kid better than anyone in this place and you know whats best for your children. The caseworker said Educate! Educate! Educate! So I've read, re-read, talked, read more, contimplated, and cried. Still have tons of info to go through. We had to form a provider plan for them to let her leave. She was on a 72hr hold. After that we could immediately pull her out. However, they told us she needed to show improvement with interacting and with some of the things she was saying. Or they could ask for a 90 day residential treatment. It was a toss up between 2mg of abilify or risperdal. They want to see how she reacts to abilify while under lockdown. But, I only agreed to 2mg. They can't go any higher on the meds without consent.

Like I said before though, I most certainly intend to get a second opinion.I have the option to terminate medication and just getting therapy. What makes it bad is its just my wife and I now. So now all the family, and friends that we do and did have are almost a 1000 miles away. I don't even have 1 friend here to have a little close support. (Other than my wife) 
This ride is definitely taken a toll on me though and I'm supposed to be the strong one.  
If anyone does have personal history or such with dealing in these strong antipsychotics and do not mind sharing with me. I would be greatly appreciative. You can pm me if you would like.
I hope this came out ok as my mind is kind of shot today.
Thank you 
Andrew


----------



## butcher

Andrew, 
You do have the strength and what is needed to deal with this.
I do not believe I would trust modern science, or all of their drugs.
We may not be able to help you with answers, but you do have the support of many friends here on the forum.
Stay strong my friend


----------



## kurtak

Andrew

I am so very, very sorry to hear about this - You have my heart felt hopes & wishes for the best going out to you :!: 

Kurt


----------



## acpeacemaker

Thanks butcher and kurt for the well wishes.
We got her back and seeing a therapist for an explosive disorder. This has been by far the worst month I think we could possibly go through. For anyone thinking there's always someone going through something worse. This has drained us not only emotionally but now we don't have a dime to our name. To top it off I had the "landlord" of my storage facility call me to say if I don't pay them $130 by 4:00pm we lose everything we own. I can't pay anything. Awesome 

Take care
Andrew


----------



## Palladium

Sometimes i feel like this squirrel !

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgDa_cpgHWs&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]


----------



## patnor1011

That is real hunger.


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## Barren Realms 007

That was so funny. If he had held out a little longer the battery was going to die.


----------



## Palladium

Speak of the devil! 
Ok ! So i'm sitting in my shop this morning and i hear a ruckus behind me. I have 3 cats so it's nothing new to hear them digging around. I turned around just in time to get a face full of chipmunk! No shit !!!! As soon as i turned around in my chair this chipmunk was on me like a duck on a june bug and run slap up my pants leg and across my computer with a cat in hot pursuit. I'm trying to grab the cat. The cat is trying to grab the chipmunk and all i can keep thinking back to is that Chevy Chase movie and thinking to myself, please god not the gold!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muhd05GBjMU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]


----------



## Palladium

It wasn't but a couple of months ago this fellow came waltzing into my shop. That time though the cats stood back and looked at me like " Hey! you going to do something about this!"


----------



## Barren Realms 007

At least he didn't run inside the pant's leg. :lol: 

I don't think those gloves would protect you from that possum, they have some mean teeth. I killed 3 that had gotten into my old house over a period of a couple of years.


----------



## Palladium

Another fine example of Pyroceram in action!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIcACBjxlXk[/youtube]


----------



## Palladium

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/07/captain-kidds-treasure_n_7237340.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063


----------



## Palladium

Only problem is they made 100 billion during that same time period. 
100 billion - 6 billion = 94 billion profit!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JApYiAFHWP8[/youtube]


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Palladium said:


> Only problem is they made 100 billion during that same time period.
> 100 billion - 6 billion = 94 billion profit!
> [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JApYiAFHWP8[/youtube]




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JApYiAFHWP8


----------



## acpeacemaker

Dealt with a lot of this.


----------



## rickbb

That dude must have been the guy at Advance Auto Sunday. 

I went in for a battery and had to stand in line and listen to the counter guy deal with a young lady for 30 mins on what color anti-freeze she needed in her car.

He was trying to sell her yellow and she wanted clear. :roll:


----------



## acpeacemaker

LOL Rick :mrgreen: 
I worked at a main O'Reilly's shipping hub for a few years. There a large number of people like this. Its really kind of sad.


----------



## solar_plasma

Sometimes some roe deers are passing through my garden when shifting from one field to the other. This time I stalked it to its next stop and made an evidence foto


----------



## Palladium

I've posted pictures of the possums and chip monks around my shop before. This spring I was headed up the driveway and snapped these.


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## Barren Realms 007

I'm surprised they don't run off quicker. Pretty lucky they stand there for you to take a picture. Beautiful animals.


----------



## nickvc

I followed a herd of deer down the lane I used to live on for 1/2 mile plus there were around 10 - 15 in the herd, they only went back to the fields when the buck decided he had had enough fun slowing down the traffic..


----------



## Palladium

Those deer right there will come up and eat tater chips out your hands while your having a bbq in the back yard.
I have two boys 8 and 9 and they love it! I don't let them sit in front of a tv or play video games all day long. I make them go out and chase the wild life. :mrgreen:


----------



## Palladium

The two in the front of the picture are mine and the one in the back is their cousin. I even included a picture of myself for the first time anywhere.


----------



## Platinum

You need to chase down that grasshopper and give him his legs back. :twisted:


----------



## acpeacemaker

This one of mine made the news.


----------



## Platinum

I always hear about a shortage of deer. Around here i have more than i could ever kill if i wanted to. I have 40 acres and the deer know if anything i'll feed them and mean them no harm. When hunting season starts my deer population doubles. I woke up one morning and their was a deer asleep next to my front porch. He was waiting for breakfast! :mrgreen:


----------



## Barren Realms 007

Platinum said:


> You need to chase down that grasshopper and give him his legs back. :twisted:



That is hilarious. I don't know what is whiter the sand or your legs.


----------



## Anonymous

Hah Frank. Joking aside though- hats off for showing a pic of yourself Palladium. 8)


----------



## goldsilverpro

Red headed and full of mischief. Fine looking boys, Ralph.


----------



## glorycloud

Nice catfish there as well!! I bet it fried up nicely!! 8)


----------



## Grelko

Palladium said:


> Get you chemicals now! It won't be long before you won't be able to.
> http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/tsca-reform-detailed-analysis-of-frank-01972/




Noticed this as I was looking through it.

(Lautenberg Section 18(d) contains an "exemption" section, like most prior bills, that specifies those State statutes or administrative actions that cannot be restricted. Unlike S. 1009, however, Lautenberg provides additional criteria to exempt a statute or administrative action applicable to a specific chemical substance and related to water quality, air quality, or waste treatment or disposal. This limitation both clarifies and narrows the type of statute or administrative action that would be exempt from preemption.)

Wouldn't the chemicals used for processing un-wanted electronics, jewelry etc., be classified as "waste treatment or disposal" and possibly fall under "exempt" as long as you are disposing of it properly?


----------



## Palladium

The language of the bill is unimportant. Its the underlying pretense of where its all going. It demonstrates a pattern towards an ending.


----------



## Grelko

Palladium said:


> The language of the bill is unimportant. Its the underlying pretense of where its all going. It demonstrates a pattern towards an ending.




Very true, they could ban all major, and other certain types of chemicals or add a new license that only certain buisnesses are allowed to get. Guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## Palladium

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJm3cRRvPoM[/youtube]


----------



## goldsilverpro

I've always said that, as a whole, Americans are the stupidest people in the world when it comes to precious metals. Probably something to do with our not being to own gold (other than jewelry) for about 40 years. Before that, everyone knew at least how to bite it.


----------



## solar_plasma

No more EU-money for Greece, what's your guess, how will this influence the precious metal spot, the Euro and the USDollar?


----------



## Palladium

China's stock market lost about 7.7 % or close to a trillion dollars Friday also!
I would like to see a market move, but come Monday it will probably be business as usual. Then again this could be the domino that starts it all, but the way it's all rigged you never know. The banks have corrupted China just like they have the U.S. Their companies are trading at price to earnings ratios of 100 to 1 and higher. They have all that free money just like they have been propping it up here. It will be interesting to see what happens when communism meets capitalism head on! When all this happens globally it's going to get ugly!


----------



## macfixer01

Another ominous development I just became aware of today... Will gold, silver, and gun dealers now be forced out of business through coercion of the banks by regulators to close the accounts of businesses they don't like? I have to say it does fit with all the underhanded methods used so far by this administration.

http://youtu.be/pwlQgNisgqA

Macfixer01


----------



## Palladium

Anybody watching whats going on in Greece? Everywhere you read it keeps saying Greece is in default. That's bull s**t ! They want everyone to believe that so that they can install fear before this vote coming up. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. I love how they are calling it a default in the news, but the IMF has not declared Greece in default. Why? Well because as soon as they file the paperwork and make it official the credit default swaps kick in and the insurance companies have to cover the bonds. Now where have we seen this play out before? Hummmm..... Think back to 2008 here and the companies like AIG! The IMF don't want Greece to default because if they do it will start a chain reaction. I'm with Greece, hold their feet to the fire. What a scam! They are waiting to see what happens with the vote before they decide what they will do with Greece. Not only that, but China is tanking, Venezuela is having problems and now so is Puerto Rico. Stock market is rocking right along and gold and silver are getting beat down.


----------



## MarcoP

I'm following it from very close and I believe it's a setup from Tsipras to stop the history from repeating it self, they do not want to get robbed again. Sure things aren't going well but not even close to default! They want to send a message, a scary one, and get better deals from Europe.

On the other side, Spain, did an excellent job meeting EU requirements. If Greece didn't is simply because they haven't work on it and now they want to get a shortcut? Just politic I reckon.


----------



## jason_recliner

goldsilverpro said:


> I've always said that, as a whole, Americans are the stupidest people in the world when it comes to precious metals. Probably something to do with our not being to own gold (other than jewelry) for about 40 years. Before that, everyone knew at least how to bite it.


The problem is, they didn't know WHY* to bite it.

* The correct answer: All real gold coins contain chocolate.


----------



## patnor1011

what you see in news and TV about Greece is mostly scam. Closing banks was key point to show Greeks what is going to happen if they will not obey. Talk about fat lazy Greeks not paying taxes and such. Well every country does have fat lazy people who do not pay taxes, there is not more of them in Greece than in any other country. It is just a way to scam other EU taxpayer to accept they have to foot the bill for bailing other countries, but fact is that all this is an interest paying game between banks. You do not bail people or country, you are saving banks. Money borrowed to Greece does not go to Greeks, they just travel between banks acquiring interest payments and we are going to pay that interest, among with Greeks. 
Most of Greece debt was acquired without any benefit for Greeks - bulk of it is military spending. It is amazing to see that Germans borrowed Greeks money to buy German made weapons which they do not really need anyway, that may be one of the way of German economic miracle. That kind of spending do not benefit Greek people only Germans. Oh and do not think I am against Germans, that is actually brilliant strategy but sometimes you do have to accept losses and that is what Germans are afraid of. It was all good for German and French banks to "borrow" money to Greece when they kept getting interest but now comes the hard part to accept that there will be no more of interest profits and perhaps or most likely complete loss of investments.

Do not be naive, there are countries with much higher debt than Greece and not just in EU. They still somehow function and watch closely and carefully what is going on. Greece is a test run, the same as was Cyprus.


----------



## solar_plasma

But you have to differentiate between german tax payers and german banks and industry (which are international owned). The german tax payers do not have any benefit from this big game theatre. In fact it is going downwards for them.

All in all, I think it is wrong to speek about nationalities, the big players aren't (not only) nations anymore, they are lobbies and interest groups fighting each other and for higher gainings.

Btw in the 80s Helmut Kohl said it was too early to start the €, but France required it as a premise for the union of east and west germany. Understandible, since a united germany made people somewhat afraid in the context of history. Financially a big mistake.


----------



## patnor1011

When I mentioned Germans (in fact many times) it was not directed on people, rather financial institutions. Well there is no secret that Germany (elite - financial and industry) is main force behind euro, french are just sidekick for voting purposes. 
I agree that German taxpayer is loosing with all that pretended bailouts, they will be fleeced probably to the same extent as greek along with all of the other EU taxpayer. Problem is that debt accumulated by Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Spain, France.... will never be repaid. It is simply impossible so we will end up being EUS. European Union of Slaves. Some big reset will come likely in our lifetime.


----------



## solar_plasma

Btw do you guys know this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vr_slBV6kI

I just wonder why this piece of information is released now. I do not believe there is one hidden force with a master plan, but I think there are a lot of them. :lol: Who wanted this to be released and why...


----------



## patnor1011

That W.Clark interview is quite old story, it circulate net for quite long time mostly in shorter version.


----------



## Palladium

http://www.globalresearch.ca/greece-the-one-biggest-lie-you-are-being-told-by-the-media/5460508


----------



## nickvc

Palladium said:


> http://www.globalresearch.ca/greece-the-one-biggest-lie-you-are-being-told-by-the-media/5460508





That sounds about right to me :evil:


----------



## maynman1751

The same thing is going on in the USA!!!! The greedy bankers are screwing this country royal. New World Order my a$$! :twisted:These guys (elitists, bankers i.e. Goldman-Sachs) should be prosecuted and imprisoned or better yet executed!!! My.02!!!


----------



## Palladium

NYSE:

Just a "Glitch" here folks! Nothing to see!


----------



## patnor1011

That "glitch" was market in free fall, they did not wanted to see what happened in China so NYSE was "glitched".

Another interesting thing is real time map of ddos attacks. 
http://map.norsecorp.com/


----------



## Palladium

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94UcyJnRcGU[/youtube]


----------



## solar_plasma

Maybe Europe should have started becoming a United Europe, before it became a European Union. Equal tax laws, equal social welfare benefits etc. - everything measured at the best working and most humanic examples. A federal law and local laws, just like the USA or its foster child Germany with its small federal states. A monetary union, if at all, should have come at last.


----------



## JHS

We The People Of The World,
Spend beyond our means,and wonder why we are in this situation.
If you do not like it,change it.You the people have the power to change the government.
DO IT.
JOHN


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## solar_plasma

If it were that easy... I think our democracies are the best possible social constructs, but we the people have been prehistoric men for 1000 000 years and only the last 3000 years we suddenly think we are destined for greatness - there is just too much prehistoric man in our neurochemistry. Errare humanum est.


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## rickbb

solar_plasma said:


> If it were that easy... I think our democracies are the best possible social constructs, but we the people have been prehistoric men for 1000 000 years and only the last 3000 years we suddenly think we are destined for greatness - there is just too much prehistoric man in our neurochemistry. Errare humanum est.



Exactly, we are all still tribal, us vs. them. Until we evolve beyond that we will always be as we are, one crisis to the next.


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## JHS

Then go prehistoric on there butts and pick up your club.LOL
john
P.S.by no means am I suggesting violence.


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## Geo

Passive resistance. Stop using their money and become self sufficient. It's easy to have an opinion about something good or bad but usually it is influenced by some personal connection like mortgage rates too high or the high cost of fuel or quality of utilities. Something that effects you personally. The people that are most worried are people who stand to lose something either way. The banks make money from the money you give them for saving or paying on debt. Each Dollar you deposit is worth much more to the bank than just one dollar. The bank can loan that one dollar many times and thereby collecting multiple payments on that single dollar. It's making money from nothing, literally. I know that banking is a must but the only way to hurt a bank is to not deposit money into it. If you have direct deposit, your paycheck goes directly into your account. Your bank can loan your money to someone else. As long as your account stays in the black, you are an asset of that bank. It is a very twisted world. We should all go back to the barter system next spring for a couple of months and see how many banks will last 60 days without a deposit.


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## Anonymous

I'm so glad we declined the Euro here in the UK. The things that Greece are getting up to are scandalous. The UK is the strongest growing European economy too. The Eurocrats started off by telling the world how our austerity measures were wrong and harmful and then have had to completely U-turn and admit that they are working. 

In the words of Winston Churchill, “I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.” 

Left wing politics thrives on other peoples' money and goes wrong when that money runs out.


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## kurtak

Here is an interesting article Iread on market watch the other day -----------

China Wants Control Of Gold Market


“Given that China is the epicenter of the physical gold market, it does make sense that the Chinese government would want its physical Shanghai gold market to supplant the Comex derivative market (and others) as the primary global price-setting mechanism,” said Anthem Blanchard, chief executive officer of online precious-metal retailer Anthem Vault.

China is, after all, the world’s largest producer and one of the biggest buyers of the metal, often running neck and neck with India as the globe’s top consumer.

Last month, the Bank of China became the first Chinese bank to join the group of lenders that set the London Bullion Market Association’s gold price benchmark, and two more Chinese banks are reportedly working to become members. 

“This will allow Chinese banks to participate in the gold market on a global basis,” said Julian Phillips, founder of and contributor to GoldForecaster.com.

The LBMA Gold Price replaced the historic London Gold Fix in March. 

New York and London have generally been the hubs for setting gold prices. But with “so little gold going through Comex in physical terms, this is a distortion of demand and supply as it only reflects the trading picture of speculators in New York,” said Phillips. He noted that only 5% of contracts are delivered on Comex after notice has been given of this intention.

“Control over the gold price is exercised in New York and London, leaving China at the mercy of those two centers,” he said.

So despite China’s huge presence in the physical market, it hasn’t had much control over the global gold price.

Having New York and London as the price-setting locations has “kept gold prices well below the level of demand and supply should reflect,” Phillips said. China does not want an uncontrolled gold price, but it also “does not want the U.S./U.K. to have control over this market if they are minor players.”

On Thursday, August gold futures settled at $1,159.20 an ounce on Comex in New York, and in London, the afternoon LBMA Gold Price was $1,164.25.

Gold prices haven’t found much support in the wake of China’s recent stock-market drop, but Blanchard said that if Chinese stock investors become “increasingly disillusioned” about losses in the country’s stock market, gold prices could “benefit greatly.”

Meanwhile, China’s greater presence in the world gold market could also help the country’s currency.

China can “promote yuan trading in gold, with Chinese banks taking up stock and selling it to other buyers in yuan,” Phillips said. Add that to a yuan gold “fix” price in Shanghai, expected before the end of the year and you will have a market “that is not distorted by the banks, their proprietary trading, or control of the gold distribution system globally.”

Instead, “China will hold these reins,” he said.

In the end, it may be really about China operating independently of the U.S. financially, Phillips said.

Gold isn’t just a commodity, it is “money” and recognized by all global central banks as such, he said. 

To have a global multi-currency system, the expectation is that gold will act in a pivotal role alongside the U.S. dollar , sterling , the yen and Swiss franc —and, this year, the yuan, he said. 

He believes the dollar will lose a lot of its influence in global trade—“so it is not just about gold for China, it is a new monetary system relatively independent of the U.S. and the dollar.”


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## Geo

I don't think China is as big a player as they would have the world believe.In fact, they may have to start selling off huge chunks of gold reserves to shore up their failing economy. http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/inside-the-ticker/chinas-stock-market-crash-is-just-beginning/ar-AAcHnWG


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## maynman1751

> In the words of Winston Churchill, “I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.”
> 
> *Left wing politics* thrives on other peoples' money and goes wrong when that money runs out.



Sounds like the U.S.'s administrative strategy. :x


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## rickbb

maynman1751 said:


> In the words of Winston Churchill, “I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.”
> 
> *Left wing politics* thrives on other peoples' money and goes wrong when that money runs out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the U.S.'s administrative strategy. :x
Click to expand...


Unfortunately it has been a very long standing policy. Seems neither the right or left is willing to actually pay for anything. The only difference in the left and right now days is the left wants to spend on domestic programs and the right wants to spend on the military but neither wants to find a way pay for any of it.


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## Anonymous

I can't speak for the US, but in the UK the left wants to spend on people who won't help themselves, and allow them to live a life free of contribution. The right wants working families to have at least as good a lifestyle as those who live on benefits.

Which I happen to think is entirely fair and justified. 

We have a situation ever here where people who have never bothered working have more money than those that do.


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## 4metals

> I can't speak for the US, but in the UK the left wants to spend on people who won't help themselves, and allow them to live a life free of contribution. The right wants working families to have at least as good a lifestyle as those who live on benefits.



That pretty much sums it up over here in the US too!


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## solar_plasma

Here, they want to make us believe it is the same and simple minds even do, but in fact they just want to distract attention from the fact that many jobs are paid far too low. I say this, while I am quite lucky with a status equal to a studied civil servant. And why are they paid to low? Because the employers in the free enterprise do have a mighty lobby in Germany, - the common employees mostly not. Worst for all jobs that are a females domaine like for example nursing of all kinds.

Middle-left wing in Germany tries to change this, while the middle-right wing only has two things in mind: to cement their power by nursing the big ones and to lull the common people.


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## Anonymous

The difficulty is that the left seems to forget that private enterprise and companies are the root of the economy. Without that your systems feeds off itself, and the end result is no money anywhere. The left lost the election here because people perceived them as hating business and hating successful people. without successful people there is no true economy.

The bit I don't understand is this- why do they call company directors who earn £1M per year "fat cats" and despise them even though they give hundreds of people jobs whilst at the same time they adore a footballer can earn £200,00 per WEEK and contribute nothing to the economy?


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## g_axelsson

Thumbs up on the footballer quote, but try not to take this thread into discussing politics, please.

In the end it doesn't matter much if right or left have the power in a country, the real power is the economy and with our global economy we are all in the same boat... except for North Korea.
Now with that said, stupid politicians can always destroy a country, but stupid politicians comes in all flavors on all sides.

Peace brothers!

Göran


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## justinhcase

the world keep's turning,People keep making the same mistake's
One day people will learn a better way of communicating and working together.(well we already have but not meany people do so)
Until then we just have to do our best and help one person every day with out hope of compensation.
May be it will catch on.


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## solar_plasma

@ Jon
Their has to be some fair equilibrium. In Germany it is growing wild. After 20 years there are double as many super rich in Germany and they have become 20% more rich in the same time. In the 40 years before the numbers have been quite stabile. In those 20 years the number of people with low wages have grown from 17% to 23%. In short: rich is getting richer and poor is getting poorer, - and this hasn't been the case until 1990 in Germany. Germany's big business has earned more than ever the last 20 years, while 99% haven't benefited at least or have even suffered. Small and medium sized entrepreneurs do have really a hard time, too.

The time has gone when we had statesmen instead of politicians, former Bundeskanzler from Adenauer over Schmidt to even Kohl and an opposition, that made a great job, too. It wasn't perfect, sure, it cannot be. But since 20 years I only see a Punch-and-Judy show, a farce.

Nevertheless, we still have law and order, human rights and all in all....yeah....yes... :roll: freedom, - well compared to most of the world, great freedom and great safety.


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## solar_plasma

g_axelsson said:


> Thumbs up on the footballer quote, but try not to take this thread into discussing politics, please.
> 
> In the end it doesn't matter much if right or left have the power in a country, the real power is the economy and with our global economy we are all in the same boat... except for North Korea.
> Now with that said, stupid politicians can always destroy a country, but stupid politicians comes in all flavors on all sides.
> 
> Peace brothers!
> 
> Göran



Well, this is a priori a somewhat political thread, but as long as we stay polite and peacefull, just tell each other our subjective perspectives, everyone can benefit from looking through his friend's eyes.

edit: btw. for a better understanding, I am not left nor right, I just try to judge things rationally and that is, how I understand all comments here. So maybe this isn't political anyway, but a discussion about economics, ethics and morality.


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## Anonymous

I'm with Bjorn on the theory here Goran mate. Polite and no militancy either way 8) 8)


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## Palladium

Politicians are tools, literally!
It's the banks that cause the majority or problems.
I can't believe Greece gave in!


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## g_axelsson

Just a friendly reminder to keep the discussion peaceful, as it has been so far. 8) 

Göran


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## patnor1011

Well Tsiparas may have surrendered himself along with some MP's but people are out in force and streets are burning. This is a situation they can not contain. Lets not forget that capital control was imposed with 60 euro a day maximum withdrawal allowed and this is not going away, this measure is going to stay in place for a very long time. People will not swallow this like they did in Cyprus. Greece is much bigger country, I dare to say that it is just a matter of time when military will have to step in and history may repeat itself. It is not long ago when elite was threatened in similar way by ordinary citizens and army stepped in with government of colonels.


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## Palladium

Part of the bail out deal you're *not hearing on the news* is the worst part to me. The banks have the right to go back 6 months and nullify any laws that have been passed by law makers. Not only that, but they have veto power going forward from this day on! Their is no more government by the people in Greece anymore! All they get to do is keep the name of their country. 

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss!


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## Anonymous

Ouch I wasn't aware of that bit Ralph.

Mind you, when you make it so easy for people to evade tax that they don't pay any, and you let people retire in their prime, what do you expect to happen to the finances of a country?


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## Palladium

The EU parliament must be allowed to tell the Greek government how to run itself, including ridding the Greek parliament of the troublemakers that, in the EU's view, precipitated the crisis in the first place. This is how the agreement reads: "The Greek authorities shall … modernize and … put in place a program, under the auspices of the European Commission … for de-politicizing the Greek administration."

The EU will have veto power over all legislation even before it is presented to Greece's parliament or to the citizens: "The government needs to consult and agree with the Institutions on all draft legislation … with adequate time before submitting it for public consultation or to Parliament."


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## justinhcase

The foundation of Greek democracy (and by default all our own democratic system's)was, first of all, the principle of freedom: Freedom to take part in directing and participating in the various democratic institutions and to live as one pleased. On top of that were two principles of equality: equality before the law and the right of all free male citizens to speak in the legislative assembly. 
The seismic disturbances in that aria must be Cleisthenes spinning in his grave.
What a pity even the oldest of Civilization's can not act in a civilized manner.


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## Palladium

Here in the U.S. we are a Republic! Everybody wants to use the word Democracy and the government would have you believe it to. The difference being that in a Democracy if 51% percent decide to say " You can't have guns " then guess what?, you can't have guns! In a Republic like ours your rights are protected by the constitution even if 99% agree or disagree. At least that's what we use to believe in here. Now a days i'm not sure what we have. 

The Pledge of Allegiance says " and to the Republic for which it stands " not " and to the Democracy for which it stands. Republics are meant to protect the minorities from the majority so that one can't rise up and rule over the other with suppression. Democracy is the majority rules no matter what.

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html


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## justinhcase

Yes you have made great stride's in the last sixty years to include minority's in you system of government.
But until we find a way to govern the finite resources of the planet in a civil way we will be doomed.
The individual has importance but not at the expense of the system as a hole. 
I do not think Human's have evolved enough to see passed there own need's ,let alone take into account the need's of others.
I wish I could take a nap and wake up when we had passed this embryonic stage of development .imagine if we ever learned to work together to harvest the bounty of our solar system.
There would be absolute abundance.


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## patnor1011

spaceships said:


> Ouch I wasn't aware of that bit Ralph.
> 
> Mind you, when you make it so easy for people to evade tax that they don't pay any, and you let people retire in their prime, what do you expect to happen to the finances of a country?



This is what they want you to believe.
Fact is that there is not more tax evasion in Greece than in any other EU country. It is a myth created to make it easier for politicians to ruin their own taxpayer saying they have to "bail out" Greece. Fat lazy Greeks not paying taxes is a PR spin nobody in their right mind believe anymore. 
And the same goes for retirement story. Here they took couple of civil servants with their pension entitlement and make it look that every Greek do have the same entitlements. Well quite a lot countries do have the same and even better entitlements for their own civil servants. Truth is that a lot of Greeks work in Public service but lets not generalize and talk about them as that they are all lazy tax evading retirees. In my country every police can retire after just 15 years of service getting golden parachute severance payment and 5x national average retirement payment. Think about that - retired in 33, even Greeks can only dream about that. Irish public servants getting multiple pension entitlements, every country does have their own privileged caste.

Their problem was caused by greed of bankers and euro bureaucrats which got them to join EU and euro by perpetuating fraud when they clearly could not met conditions. It all came to an end after just few years. Greek people do have not much to do with what is happening now. This crisis was designed and set to motion long time ago. It is not just about Greece but about Europe as a whole, this is asset stripping where whole nations and people are bled to death.


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## patnor1011

I think that Greece is done and no amount of money will help them. Not when all money which go towards them carry interest payment. There must be something going on when somebody do not want to let them go, what is the point to pour water to bucket full of holes. 
They should be left go bankrupt and whoever "borrowed" them money should take hit and swallow bullet. That is what normal capitalism look like. I would never borrow money to someone while it is apparent he cant pay back. Even Ireland will not be able to repay loans they got, they are barely able to pay interest payments. The same goes for Spain, Portugal and there are more countries which will follow suit - Italy and France are living on borrowed time too. USA, dont even want to go there, they owe more than rest of the world countries debt combined. Interesting question is who do we all owe that money to?


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## butcher

The printing press, Heck they just need to print more money on the printer, with nothiong to back the money up like gold, soon the paper will cost more than the money is worth.
Sounds to me like history repeating itself, depressions and wars usually follow.


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## justinhcase

I think that is probably why a good number of people are here in the first place.
I know I started to take an interest in metal once I learned how the world bank worked.
None of the paper asset's are actual backed by any thing concrete.
I find the tactic of charging people interest on money that never actual existed cunning and despicable in almost equal quantity's
And looking at it from a system's point of view it has a calculable limit of expansion.
then what?
when the amount of interest accruing is greater than the system's ability to ever support.
Where is all this interest being concentrated?


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## Palladium

It's all a pyramid scheme. Those at the top will never be known. That's the scary part!
We're just scurrying worried about our credit scores and when the next I phone is coming out. Right is wrong and what's bad is now considered normal or good. Up is down. Dogs sleeping with cats. Morals and ethics be damed!


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## macfixer01

patnor1011 said:


> I think that Greece is done and no amount of money will help them. Not when all money which go towards them carry interest payment. There must be something going on when somebody do not want to let them go, what is the point to pour water to bucket full of holes.
> They should be left go bankrupt and whoever "borrowed" them money should take hit and swallow bullet. That is what normal capitalism look like. I would never borrow money to someone while it is apparent he cant pay back. Even Ireland will not be able to repay loans they got, they are barely able to pay interest payments. The same goes for Spain, Portugal and there are more countries which will follow suit - Italy and France are living on borrowed time too. USA, dont even want to go there, they owe more than rest of the world countries debt combined. Interesting question is who do we all owe that money to?




The whole world is just one big Ponzi scheme. It only works because everyone is used to accepting worthless paper for their labors based on the assumption that others will then accept the worthless paper from us when we go to spend it. It's hard to believe that will go on forever?


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## justinhcase

Has any one ever read Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies a 1997 transdisciplinary nonfiction book by Jared Diamond.
It is a fascinating look on the subject of human development.
One of the first people to put an overview I feel is accurate enough to study man kind as an interactive set of system's.
If you look at the subject as a hole it is only the birth and destruction of individual civilization's that fuel's the growth of man kind.
In history the progression of which people's where at the tip of any one pyramid was controlled by natural force's and influence.
Now we have moved into an era where man him self can control the feed back loop's that guide our future.
Very scary as I do not think we as a species are any where ready to turn off the auto pilot and drive the ship our self's.
like a five year old in a Ferrari the lesson's will come fast and are going to be very painful.


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## Palladium

Here's something else i though about today. When countries, states, and cities want to raise money they issue bonds. In order to do that they pledge collateral to back the bonds. Now that Greece has pledged their assets to the banks then where does that leave the bond holder when Greece collapses. Their nothing to back the bonds in terms of physical assets now. You can't even have a fire sale. Their is nothing left to sell. Them bonds aren't owned by the banks, they are owned by investment groups and pension funds that use individuals money to invest in them. The bonds will be worthless to investors and the banks already having got paid one time for the bonds and have taken Greece's physical assets will turn around and ask for another bailout so the quote " System " doesn't implode and the individual will not only lose his money, but the banks will again have won again. 

The wheels on the bus go round and round!


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## Anonymous

Ok I'm going to pitch my tent on gold going up later this year in a big way- - from possibly October onwards.

China have told IMF that their gold reserves are only at 1800 tonnes, that’s one reason why gold price is going down at the moment. But everyone knows that in reality it’s between 4000-8000 tonnes, and they going to announce it in October, as they want yuan to be include in SDR basket.

And as soon as they admit that to the public, people will start buying all the gold they can get their hands on.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/16/imf-g20-china-idUSL2N0XD1LI20150416

edit: Addition for context

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-21/october-world-will-change-china-preparing-something-big


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## Anonymous

If all goes according to plan they want to show that their currency is stronger then the USD and that it should replace the dollar as the benchmark currency and having much larger gold reserves will be the foundation of that. 

We all know they have been buying gold from around the world for many years now, and should be in a position to carry off this "coup." There's going to be less free gold in the world, so it's going to cost more when the true reserves are revealed.


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## nickvc

I think that there is much confusion over where exactly the gold going into China actually goes.
The Chinese as a people love gold whether as jewellery, high karat, or as coins or bars as investments.
The country is also a large manufacturer of jewellery and electronic goods much of which is exported.
China's gold imports over the last 5-8 years has been growing but then again so has its exports and domestic demand for jewellery and investment gold.
If you want to read more look at the gold councils report on China and its import export and domestic consumption.
With many economies growing and improving investors are leaving gold for better returns so I'm not sure what the future holds for prices but a further drop wouldn't surprise me but then what do I know :shock:


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## Geo

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/gold-is-only-going-to-get-worse/ar-AAdErAH


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## francis32

Geo said:


> http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/gold-is-only-going-to-get-worse/ar-AAdErAH


"Prices will drop to $984 an ounce before January"

Ouch!! Maybe it will create a lower price for gold novelty items during the holiday season and therefore increase the demand of the metal making it spike back up? Who knows.

Francis


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## patnor1011

Only paper gold is tumbling. Real gold (in coins or bars) is harder to obtain and premium on them rise by the day. The same apply for silver. I am not bothered by these analysts and predictions, my metals are long term investment.


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## 4metals

What is ironic is that commodities prices are tumbling because of a slow down in China's economy and there is a glut of these commodities on the market. That actually makes sense as they were over produced to meet the demand which has slowed. 

But more gold is traded as paper and likely doesn't even exist, so how is there a glut to cause prices to drop. Maybe there's a paper shortage! My philosophy has always been take physical possession of all of your precious metals. We don't need no stinkin' paper!


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## Palladium

The calm before the storm !
It's all a lie. From the numbers they are giving us to the reports they issue. They have all lied so much until one don't know what the other one is lying about. It doesn't matter what segment of any market or government you look at if it's about money in any way it's a lie.
I trust nothing i'm told and only half of what i see. Theirs no fixing it, only propping it up until it self destructs. Every time i turn the tv on or read the net all i hear is about how rosy it all is and how i'm the happiest I've ever been according to some politician, activist, or poll. It might be for the 1%, but the other 99% of the sheepeople are fixing to get a real eye opener. It boggles the mind if you look at it and know what to look for. 
God help us all!


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## Barren Realms 007

Palladium said:


> The calm before the storm !
> It's all a lie. From the numbers they are giving us to the reports they issue. They have all lied so much until one don't know what the other one is lying about. It doesn't matter what segment of any market or government you look at if it's about money in any way it's a lie.
> I trust nothing i'm told and only half of what i see. Theirs no fixing it, only propping it up until it self destructs. Every time i turn the tv on or read the net all i hear is about how rosy it all is and how i'm the happiest I've ever been according to some politician, activist, or poll. It might be for the 1%, but the other 99% of the sheepeople are fixing to get a real eye opener. It boggles the mind if you look at it and know what to look for.
> God help us all!




Yes, but not many want to look at the real picture.


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## maynman1751

> sheepeople



Key word in the statement!!!! :shock: Ralph is informed!!!! 8)
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!


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## kurtak

Palladium said:


> I trust nothing i'm told and only half of what i see.


When I hear someone say --- "well its getting better"

I say --- who's been telling you lies --- & you believe them 

Kurt


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## Richard NL

The monetary system, money creation, loans, inflation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8LyEKxDYbM
From Zeitgeist Addendum 2008.


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## JHS

All I can say is,planet X is soon going to change everything.


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## Palladium

http://www.coinweek.com/bullion-report/bullion-direct-another-bullion-biz-bankrupt-vault-virtually-empty/

http://about.ag/BullionDirect.htm


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## Anonymous

Palladium said:


> http://www.coinweek.com/bullion-report/bullion-direct-another-bullion-biz-bankrupt-vault-virtually-empty/
> 
> http://about.ag/BullionDirect.htm




Ouch another company who didn't actually possess the gold they claim to have. A bit like the US federal reserve eh? 8) 8)


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## 4metals

> "[Bullion Direct] interpreted the provisions of the Terms of Service agreement such that when a customer placed an order, the precious metal was not actually purchased unless the customer agreed to take actual delivery of the product."



This is amazing to me! The reason these vaults exist is to securely store the customers metal. I have clients who are smallish guys that use these services to trade their metals. The reason they use them is for the trade to be done quickly they need to physically have the metal in the vault. So a secure vault that can trade your metal (for a fee) is a good solution. 

I guess their vault was secure from outsiders with bad intent. Too bad the operators were the bad guys.


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## justinhcase

There was a Gold dealership prosecuted for fraud last year.
Not only had this firm bought and sold nonexistent material,but to add insult to injury had been charging client's to store the nonexistent gold.
Some client's had been regularly paying into the scam since the early eighty's.


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## Geo

Anyone else notice that gold is worth more than platinum by over a hundred dollars an ounce.


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## 4metals

I can't believe that it isn't temporary, the last time it dipped below gold I traded in some gold kilo bars for Pt kilo bars, I think it will again be up above gold, and I bet a chunk of my retirement on it!

The platinum group metals are harder to refine than the gold so with prices down, production will decrease and demand will increase, and so will the price. Unless of course they trade 93 ounces of paper platinum for every 7 physical ounces like they do with gold. Then the banks will ruin that market too.


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## Palladium

https://youtu.be/x-GDwTfOLFo


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## Palladium

Hummmmmm......Greece suspends work at Canadian-run gold mine, http://apmobile.worldnow.com/story/29831308/greece-suspends-work-at-canadian-run-gold-mine


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## Palladium

The word vulture comes to mind. http://m.toledoblade.com/World/2015/08/18/Greece-gives-German-firm-rights-to-run-14-airports.html


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## Palladium

So let me get this right. You're so concerned about your country that you run for president and then as soon as you get the bailout agreement approved for the banksters the very next day you resign. I bet he's laughing all the way to the bank, literally. http://m.nydailynews.com/news/world/greece-pm-alexis-tsipras-resigns-calls-early-elections-article-1.2332165


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## patnor1011

How can anyone call it bailout when it is just a loan, they go from one debt to another. What is going on there is pure ponzi. First they needed just 100. Second time 200 and now third time they need 400. Give it year or two and they will need 800.


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## Palladium

300 billion owed by 11million people = about $27,000 per person.
18 trillion owed by 320 million people =$56,000 per person.
See the numbers? Hell I'd be better of living in Greece. Lol


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## rickbb

Like Regan said, "deficits don't matter".

As long as you can keep making the monthly payment, the total you owe is just some imaginary number.


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## Palladium

Andddddddd..... 
BOOM !!!!!! Goes the dynamite
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2015/08/21/stocks-eye-reprieve-despite-mortal-blow-from-chinese-data/


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## Palladium

The article says "Elsewhere in commodities, silver declined 1.43% to $15.34 a pound" ! :shock: :shock: :shock: 
:mrgreen:


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## Barren Realms 007

Stocks have been on a decline for the last 90 days if you look at the charts. 

I would like to find where I could get silver for $15 a lb. Heck I might just stock up on it at that price.


The artical said that gold was up during the day, heck I looked at it at 4:30 this morning before I went to work and it was up. So the drop in the stocks g=had little to do with it.


I would say get ready for a health correction.


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## richard2013

$15/lb silver? very bad publishing, is that an intended unit mistake?,,,lol


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## Palladium

Advice from a stock broker.

"You're getting to buy in at lower prices. So the most important takeaway would be, don't discontinue your participation, keep investing, invest even more," said Peay.

The American stocks alone has lost nearly 2 trillion in market capital in the last two days. He still gets his fees regardless of if goes up or down. Fees, the new old scam.


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## Anonymous

Hold the line chaps and keep a firm grip on your cojoneys. The gold price is about to go completely whappy over the next few months. 

If you sell right now I firmly believe you'll lose a fortune. Look at what's happening in the world finance markets and we're not even close to the IMF meeting in October.....


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## Palladium

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-12/russian-bank-caught-using-fake-gold-reserve-capital


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## justinhcase

Well I guess we know now who it is that has been buying up all the gold plated bar's form eBay.
what I can not understand even though there is a record 228 ounces of paper claims on every ounce of physical gold they have on deposit as reported before, and as it increasingly appears there is a major global physical shortage.
How can they keep hammering the price down and keep a straight face.
When will common sense kick in and the paper gold bonds just Puff out of existence. 
Every body knows it is all hokum but they still keep trading financial devices they know are about to kick the bucket and have no value at all.what are they planning to do time share each bar between the 200 claimants.
How long can a dead horse keep going.


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## JHS

So I guess your saying.
$1100.00 x 228 = the real price of gold.
cool :lol:


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## kurtak

JHS said:


> So I guess your saying.
> $1100.00 x 228 = the real price of gold.
> cool :lol:



:lol: :lol: :lol: Yep - that's right - IFFFF :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=21425&p=221204&hilit=fraud#p221204

Kurt


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## justinhcase

kurtak said:


> JHS said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I guess your saying.
> $1100.00 x 228 = the real price of gold.
> cool :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: Yep - that's right - IFFFF :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=21425&p=221204&hilit=fraud#p221204
> 
> Kurt
Click to expand...

That would be very nice :twisted: 
Sort out one or two bottle necks in the world.


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## Palladium

How many you need?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cheap-Custom-Made-24K-Gold-Clad_60212477197.html?spm=a2700.7724857.35.1.4OsJSQ


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## justinhcase

Palladium said:


> How many you need?
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cheap-Custom-Made-24K-Gold-Clad_60212477197.html?spm=a2700.7724857.35.1.4OsJSQ


Excellent!!
Why don't we just do what every one else is doing,Set up our own Bank!!
A few hundred bars of thous and one or two of our own real bars and we will be laughing.
No one seems to mind that much,may be fantasy banking will become as popular as the fantasy foot ball every one is always going on about.
:roll:


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## 4metals

Interesting thought. It explains why the big banks want to drive prices down. In the unlikely event that they suddenly grew a conscience and tried to buy themselves out of the problem, it would be easier with a lower price. 

Wait a minute, did I just type conscience and big banks in the same sentence? Wrong!!!!


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## Anonymous

I'm just hanging in there until the results of the IMF meeting next month.....


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## Palladium

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7BrR412wyo[/youtube]


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## JHS

a bank is a good idea,could someone research how to get a government bail out and apply for it before we start? :lol:


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## Palladium

Interesting email I got from Paypal today.
Person to person payments will not be available for payments sent from Puerto Rico after October 30th.
These changes will be effective on October 30, 2015 for all U.S. users.


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## Geo

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/why-the-fed-is-driving-gold-prices-higher/ar-AAesR6x?li=AA4Zjn#page=1

Excerpt : 

To see why gold and gold miners will move up from here, you need to know two important concepts:

-- When the Fed raises rates, the dollar is driven higher because foreign investors are drawn to U.S. assets. They’re chasing higher interest rates and the more robust economic conditions that causes the Fed to hike rates. They have to buy greenbacks, which pushes the dollar higher. In contrast, the dollar is weakened when the Fed signals it will delay rate hikes. That’s where we are now.

-- The dollar and gold have a natural inverse relationship. Dollar down, gold up.


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## butcher

The problem I see is printing money with nothing to back it up, now they are printing gold without anything to back it up.
Gold sold as printed money (gold stock) ( where they can print as much gold as they want without having the physical gold to back it up), DE-values our physical gold price until the people who bought the printed gold want to cash-out, someday the country will want there money from the banks like they did in the depression, only to find out the bank does not actually have all of their money, and then everyone goes broke.
we can also just say that old green paper money is useless, and have to begin printing a different color of money.
unless the shell I trade you for that piece of bread has value itself, or has value to back it up, sooner or later you may figure out my shells are worthless and can be picked up on the beach easily, now we are still trying to hope our shells still have value while they just keep printing out more shells with nothing of value to back them, those that kept some bread or physical gold, may come out ahead when this shell game come to its peak.


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## patnor1011

That used to be true some time ago. Not applicable now. Gold is being hammered no matter what dollar is doing. That is only possible because of paper gold which is "printed" in the same rate as dollar. Both dollar and gold are essentially ponzi scheme and will come to an end one day soon. The same is with euro or japanese yen.


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## Palladium

That's the new trick. You're right it use to be manipulated by printing which at least kept it half honest, but now it's all digital. No more printing just button strokes! Just remember it all for your benefit and to keep your money safe!


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## jason_recliner

butcher said:


> The problem I see is printing money with nothing to back it up, now they are printing gold without anything to back it up.
> Gold sold as printed money (gold stock) ( where they can print as much gold as they want without having the physical gold to back it up), DE-values our physical gold price until the people who bought the printed gold want to cash-out, someday the country will want there money from the banks like they did in the depression, only to find out the bank does not actually have all of their money, and then everyone goes broke.
> we can also just say that old green paper money is useless, and have to begin printing a different color of money.
> unless the shell I trade you for that piece of bread has value itself, or has value to back it up, sooner or later you may figure out my shells are worthless and can be picked up on the beach easily, now we are still trying to hope our shells still have value while they just keep printing out more shells with nothing of value to back them, those that kept some bread or physical gold, may come out ahead when this shell game come to its peak.



Reminds me of the sub prime mortgage fiasco. That went well. [Edit: Sarcasm]


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## patnor1011

That went well for somebody only. Not for the people who got houses and paid some of their mortgage, then lost houses along with money already paid. Now they are without house, and without that little bit of money they had before.


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## 4metals

> Reminds me of the sub prime mortgage fiasco. That went well.



Come on! All of the banks had their wrists slapped. You didn't think they would have to pay back anybody did you? 

Here in the US the banks keep getting "free" money and use it to abuse whomever they can. They have moved on from un backed mortgages to un backed gold inventory. It's a natural progression. I'm sure Ivy League trained financial wizzards all study that in their freshman year when they take Greed 101.


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## Palladium

4metals said:


> Reminds me of the sub prime mortgage fiasco. That went well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure Ivy League trained financial wizzards all study that in their freshman year when they take Greed 101.
Click to expand...



That's why when a banker says "CEOs have some attributes that would serve a president well, but running the country might be better left to a politician" you might want to listen. That ain't what the banks told Greece was it ?????

Of course your right Jamie !!! Those CEO's probably wouldn't know anything about running a company if they didn't have the banks and the politicians telling them what needed to be done! Jamie Dimon for president folks !!!

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/20/jp-morgan-jamie-dimon-presidential-candidates


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## Palladium

http://www.silverseek.com/commentary/future-gold-and-silver-mining-simple-pictures-14894


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## Palladium

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/05/11/one-of-the-most-important-scientists-in-the-world-most-cancer-research-is-largely-a-fraud/


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## UncleBenBen

Great article! Especially the mention of fluoride. I spent some time reading on it a few years ago and was horrified by some of the things I learned. From big aluminum avoiding the high price tag of disposing of the toxic waste of aluminum production by deceiving the public into actually paying to dispose of it in our bodies!
I read that it was fed in large doses to people in Russian prisons and to Jews in concentration camps to keep them 'docile'. A look at the ingredient lists of many antidepressants like prozac will show flourides as ingredients.
I can't help but think the proof of this calming effect on humans is the fact that most people still think of fluoride as healthy. It's a sad, sad world the 'haves' have made for all us have nots.


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## Palladium

Ever wonder why the price of gold and silver, and commodities are going down and what's going on? What's better than controlling the paper market? Controlling the physical market! If you put downward pressure on commodity prices then you can push debt ridden companies into bankruptcy and buy the physical companies for pennies on the dollar. Think about what happened to AIG and Lehman Brothers! Then what do you know the prices will rise! and who owns that debt and stands to profit the most from the companies collapse? Why the people manipulating the paper market and our old friends over at Goldman Sachs of course!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/glencore-sinks-to-all-time-low-on-continued-debt-fears-1443435063

and who is Glencore? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glencore


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## Palladium

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/28/swiss-watchdog-opens-probe-into-precious-metal-manipulation-by-ubs-hsbc.html


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## Palladium

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyKIvnied-o[/youtube]


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## Palladium

4metals said:


> Reminds me of the sub prime mortgage fiasco. That went well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on! All of the banks had their wrists slapped. You didn't think they would have to pay back anybody did you?
> 
> Here in the US the banks keep getting "free" money and use it to abuse whomever they can. They have moved on from un backed mortgages to un backed gold inventory. It's a natural progression. I'm sure Ivy League trained financial wizzards all study that in their freshman year when they take Greed 101.
Click to expand...



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T4BUzzUJNg[/youtube]


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## Barren Realms 007

Palladium said:


> 4metals said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of the sub prime mortgage fiasco. That went well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on! All of the banks had their wrists slapped. You didn't think they would have to pay back anybody did you?
> 
> Here in the US the banks keep getting "free" money and use it to abuse whomever they can. They have moved on from un backed mortgages to un backed gold inventory. It's a natural progression. I'm sure Ivy League trained financial wizzards all study that in their freshman year when they take Greed 101.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQTCS6aWRSc[/youtube]
Click to expand...


The video will not play. It says it has been disabled.


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## FrugalRefiner

Played for me. Windows 10, IE 11.

Dave


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## Anonymous

http://www.kitco.com/commentaries/2015-10-06/-Prepare-For-The-Most-Epic-Bull-Market-in-Gold-Stock-History.html

As I have said before - hold the line guys


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## Palladium

I'm starting to believe what i write! :mrgreen:


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## patnor1011

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 



Palladium said:


> I'm starting to believe what i write! :mrgreen:



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Anonymous

Ralph and Pat.

I'm hanging on to my gold and unless I'm mistaken you might be too. It's gonna dip but then it's gonna climb like mad IMHO but only those who have the balls to hang on will benefit.

Jon


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## patnor1011

Only fool or weak hand will part with his metal at these times. Whoever invested in metals and consider it as long time investment or retirement fund may very well live like a king when that time come.


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## rickbb

patnor1011 said:


> Only fool or weak hand will part with his metal at these times. Whoever invested in metals and consider it as long time investment or retirement fund may very well live like a king when that time come.



Depends on when you retire, if you're at that age now and bought when prices were high, you'll lose. Timing is everything.


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## justinhcase

patnor1011 said:


> Only fool or weak hand will part with his metal at these times. Whoever invested in metals and consider it as long time investment or retirement fund may very well live like a king when that time come.


I wish I could afford to stock pile, but I have to cash in every week so I can pay the next week's client's.
also found this .
There Is No Silver Shortage - Confirms The Perth Mint https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBookuZHf_U
Made a very good argument against all the nay Sayers and panic merchant's that think metal is going to run short any time soon.


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## Palladium

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Iwv042meQ[/youtube]

WOW ! :shock:


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## patnor1011

1:30 If it goes wrong there is solution.


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## Palladium

I talked to my psychiatrist and he told me it was a good idea to bring a gun to a tutorial and to post it to Youtube !
I'm all 2nd amendment, but folks like that bother me!


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## maynman1751

Their coming to take me away, their coming to take me away.......to the funny farm where life is beautiful all of the time........
This dude is still circling the airport waiting for the landing lights to come on!!!!! :shock: He needs the men in white coats. :roll:


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## Geo

Yep, side arm prominently placed where he is sure to get a good shot of it. "If you come to steal my broth can, I'll plug you full of holes" *spits*


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## Palladium

I love building things with my hands!

http://s189.photobucket.com/user/aflacglobal/library/Coal%20Furnace


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## Anonymous

Wow the guy in that video is a walking talking timebomb. Seriously scarey.


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## patnor1011

Palladium said:


> I love building things with my hands!
> 
> http://s189.photobucket.com/user/aflacglobal/library/Coal%20Furnace



Nice.


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## Palladium

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-24/overstock-holds-3-months-food-10-million-gold-employees-preparation-next-collapse


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## Palladium

Get your foot off my throat !!!!! :shock:


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## Barren Realms 007

Palladium said:


> Get your foot off my throat !!!!! :shock:



Isn't life in the markets great. :roll:


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## Palladium

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get your foot off my throat !!!!! :shock:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't life in the markets great. :roll:
Click to expand...


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## Barren Realms 007

Palladium said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get your foot off my throat !!!!! :shock:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't life in the markets great. :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Shorts are covering.
Some are taking profits (too early IMHO).
The people that sold PM's the last few months are chasing to get back in. 
The bond markets are in the toilet.
Currencies are trashed. The dollar is back to falling again.
Stocks are puking up like a teenager on their first drinking binge after drinking a 5th of Jack Daniels. They have blow through their bottom end resistance points.
China is buying a lot of gold to shore up it's currency.
Japan is buying a lot of gold as well.
China is buying more gold each month. Just wait till their holiday is over this week and see how much their market drops come Monday.
China and Japan have money flowing out of their banks like the levees broke in New Orleans again and they are trying to pump the water out.
They say unemployment is falling, but they are not accounting for the ones that have quit reporting and can't find work.

I wouldn't surprised to see gold at $1350-1375 by the end of the month but don't chase it up when you are buying.

Silver dollar for dollar will be your best buy. The problem is unloading it for as close to spot price like you can with gold.

Have fun everyone. This will test how good your nerves are.

8) :lol:  :mrgreen: :twisted: :roll:


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## kurtak

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get your foot off my throat !!!!! :shock:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't life in the markets great. :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shorts are covering.
> Some are taking profits (too early IMHO).
> The people that sold PM's the last few months are chasing to get back in.
> The bond markets are in the toilet.
> Currencies are trashed. The dollar is back to falling again.
> Stocks are puking up like a teenager on their first drinking binge after drinking a 5th of Jack Daniels. They have blow through their bottom end resistance points.
> China is buying a lot of gold to shore up it's currency.
> Japan is buying a lot of gold as well.
> China is buying more gold each month. Just wait till their holiday is over this week and see how much their market drops come Monday.
> China and Japan have money flowing out of their banks like the levees broke in New Orleans again and they are trying to pump the water out.
> They say unemployment is falling, but they are not accounting for the ones that have quit reporting and can't find work.
> 
> I wouldn't surprised to see gold at $1350-1375 by the end of the month but don't chase it up when you are buying.
> 
> Silver dollar for dollar will be your best buy. The problem is unloading it for as close to spot price like you can with gold.
> 
> Have fun everyone. This will test how good your nerves are.
> 
> 8) :lol:  :mrgreen: :twisted: :roll:
Click to expand...


Good post Frank - I think you are spot on :mrgreen: 

Kurt


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## Barren Realms 007

Thanks Kurt. It is actually a lot worse out there but I didn't want to give anyone a heart attack. :roll:


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## gold4mike

It's gettin' fun! Lost my job last July after 20 years at the same company, rolled my 401k to a rollover IRA, invested 75% of it in gold and silver mining stocks and used some to pay down debt.

The last 4 weeks I made back all the cash I pulled and more. I believe (and hope) that this is just the beginning. As more people look for a place to park their cash the gold and silver trade is going to get more crowded. Those of us who have kept the faith while precious metals were pummeled will be rewarded for our patience.


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## richard2013

Gold bulls still fighting, due rampant PM manipulation time comes paper money will gain just selective trust and the Great Depression version 2.0 will come. :roll:


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