# using gold plated jewlery



## redneckdude (May 24, 2013)

can i use gold plated jewlery for the acid method and not have to inquart any silver to dissolve the metals from the jewlery and keep the gold or do i have to inquart silver with it. thank you for your time.


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## jeneje (May 24, 2013)

redneckdude said:


> can i use gold plated jewlery for the acid method and not have to inquart any silver to dissolve the metals from the jewlery and keep the gold or do i have to inquart silver with it. thank you for your time.



What Acid method are you talking about? There are several ways to de-plate gold off of plated jewelry, pins, memory...etc. We would need more information on the feed stock to help.

Ken

edited; you *Do Not* inquart plated jewelry if this is what you needed to know. I do suggest you download and read Hokes Book on refining.


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## Claudie (May 24, 2013)

I don't understand you post for sure. What base metal are you dealing with? 
Maybe do some reading, here is a good place to start: Guided Tour viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873


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## its-all-a-lie (May 24, 2013)

What would be the purpose of inquarting plated jewelry? Read Hoke's book, read it again, and when you are tired of reading it, read it again. If you have questions at that point, i am sure someone will be more than willing to help you. You have been a member here less than 1 hour and have already posted 2 questions. Read Hoke!


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## artart47 (May 25, 2013)

Redneck!
I believe this is the second time in two days that I've read a post where you are asking if you can shortcut the process and not inquart. I gave you advise, so did Claudie.
The fact that you are now asking about plated jewelry , last post was if you only did 6k, tells me that you have no idea what you would be doing or why and that you have a lot of studying to do before you ever open any chemicals!
I woulden't tell the children hanging around the construction site how to start all the construction equipment, put it in gear and where we hide the keys so they can play after we go home.... also I woulden't help someone who doesen't appear to want to aquire an understanding of refining gold jewelry screw things up and per-haps injure themself, others or cause an environmental situation that could be an excuse for government to run us out of being small refiners!
Go back to the responses you got on the "6k post" and get started. or, if youare unwilling to do your homework, then just be a middleman and resell for a profit!
artart47


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## griptheweasel (May 25, 2013)

artart47 said:


> Redneck!
> I woulden't tell the children hanging around the construction site how to start all the construction equipment, put it in gear and where we hide the keys so they can play after we go home.... also I woulden't help someone who doesen't appear to want to aquire an understanding of refining gold jewelry screw things up and per-haps injure themself
> artart47



While I agree with the 2nd half of your statement, in that anyone who comes on here really ought to read up on and understand _why_ the refining processes work and how best to perform them safely, I have to disagree with the first portion of your statement comparing another board member to a child. I would have to assume that all members here are adults and should be treated as such, not children whom we must hide dangerous information from so as not to hurt themselves. All the information on this forum could allow anyone to either kill themselves ten times over, or successfully refine thousands of ounces of precious metals. The choice is theirs to make.

redneckdude, as to your original post, it really does seem like you don't fully understand how the inquarting process or "acid process" (I'm assuming the HCl/Bleach method?) really work, and you're just trying to find the "easiest" way of turning some scrap jewelry into pure gold. What you should really be looking for is the _proper_ way of _recovering_ and _refining_ your scrap jewelry into as pure a gold as you desire. I would advise you look into the ways of either dissolving the gold plating from the base metal in the jewelry, or dissolving the base metal from the jewelry while keeping the gold plating intact. Just browse through the Chemical Processes section of the forum and see what strikes your fancy.


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## butcher (May 26, 2013)

I see this A little differently.

I do not think any one was comparing another board member to a child, beyond the point that the child could not run the equipment, and would have no understanding of how, and if they did they could get hurt or hurt someone else, the children should not be given the keys.

I do think it was a good analogy, when people come here to learn refining they are like kids to this art, they may think they know enough to run the equipment, seeing a video or reading some half baked instructions on the internet about dissolving everything in aqua regia and precipitating pure gold simple as that, no need to study, heck this is simple any kid could turn the key and pull on a few levers on that crane at the construction site and get the job done, heck he seen it done in a video.

Everyone here treats others like adults, we even treat our very young members like adults, (also sometimes the young members act more like adults than the adults do), but as adults sometimes we need to be shown we are over our head and jumping into the drivers seat before we are really ready, thinking this whole recovery refining thing is some simple thing, we may need an analogy like the one above to get us to realize it is not as simple as we first think it is, this is a complex chemistry we deal with, it seems very simple on the outside, but simple it is not, it can take years just to get a basic understanding of the reactions and what is happening when we put metals in acids, it can take years just to be able to understand the basics, even for a smart man who study's hard, even with the very easy books to understand like Hokes, and even with members trying to explain these basic principles on the forum, it takes a while to grasp these principles, then there are many different materials and processes that have their own aspects to learn, and I do not think any one man can learn all there is to this in one lifetime, this is a huge field of science to learn and understand, new members really have no understanding of how complicated it is, or the dangers involved, we do not treat them like kids, but we do try to get these grown men or women to understand the are like kids on a crane in the construction yard, when they jump in and dump acids and metals together with literally no understanding of what they are doing, like the kids in the construction yard they would only hurt themselves or others if they did not step back, get an understanding of what they are trying to do before they pull those levers. 

Many of us men and women of the forum (most of us here) ( most of us OLD kids on the forum) started off this way, jumping in pulling levers without knowing what we were actually doing), until we found our selves running into problems, and then spent the time to study, it was only after we spend that time studying do we understand how little we really understood before, and began to understand how dangerous we were to ourselves and others, when we jumped before we really should have, and just how dangerous this field can be, where we could poison or selves or others around us, or have a flask blow up in our face from simply mixing a couple of chemicals and metals together.

siannopollo, when you suggested:
I would advise you look into the ways of either dissolving the gold plating from the base metal in the jewelry.
How do you advise we do this (other than cyanide), and if I took your advice How do I use this chemical without harming myself or others, I have never used it, should I just mix up a batch, and try it before I learn more about it, I am a kid at this process, (and at this point I would be like the kid in the construction yard on that crane), I have read a few things, but I also have learned enough from years of reading about it, that I really do not know enough to try it, but if I thought I have read enough to try it and jumped in before I was ready and ran into problems, could you give me advice? how about an antidote, I feel sick,and these acid fume are stinking up the house, after trying this can you help, or would it be too late.

I would rather you make an analogy, to try to get me to understand,before I jumped in over my head, That I was like a kid on the crane in the construction yard, pulling levers I knew nothing about, so that I may be able to understand that I really do not know enough about cyanide to be try it without a heck of a lot more study, before I came to you asking for the antidote. 


To learn a complex science and its dangers it takes time and study, no man or women should jump in mixing acids and metals before they have done a lot of research, to get an understanding of the dangers, and the basic science and safety measure.

All of us gold refining kids had to start somewhere, and Hokes is a great place to begin, then the safety section and dealing with waste, and studying the forum, before we even think of mixing chemicals and metals.


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## artart47 (May 26, 2013)

Standing ovation Butcher!
You have a way with words That I don't. When I first came here I would read Harold tell someone how it is and think " who does he think he is trashing a new guy". I've been here, per-haps three years and now I see how much I diden't know back then! If I was wanting to dump anything into nitric and Harold and other caring members told me to put it aside and study and then I come back with more posts trying to get members to help me dump it into nitric or poorman's, I'd be fortunate to have had Harold there to smack me upside the head and make me do my homework!
I have only given advise to a few people and feel an anger with this guy not listening. It's anger because he could get into serious trouble and he is insistent on going ahead anyways! For the first time I thought of why Harold seems to be short of patience with people who know enough to be dangerous and insist on continuing instead of learning and taking advise. He's been through that since the begining of the forum.
I want to see him make his first button, not see him back here with a mess asking how to fix it.
Good luck Redneckdude.
Thanks Butcher.
Herold....I'm doing my homework!
artart47


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## griptheweasel (May 26, 2013)

I guess I tend to take a more libertarian view on safety, in that as long as you're not endangering the lives and safety of others, it is up to the person you look at in the mirror to guarantee your own safety. Especially with something like recovering and refining precious metals at home, the burden of learning how to do all processes safely falls upon myself; Not my friends, not my wife, not any of the members on this forum. For some people, no amount of suggestion and imploring will force them to do what we know to be the right thing, which is to be safe with potentially dangerous chemicals. For those who do care, I imagine most are already reading the proper safety precautions of how to deal with the chemicals used in refining. And considering it's hard to read even one thread on this forum without hitting upon some aspect of safety, no one reading or posting on this forum has much of an excuse for not performing their refining in a safe manner.

When dealing with people who don't seem interested in listening to advice, no matter how prudent it may be, I like to think of this:


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## butcher (May 26, 2013)

artart47, 
I remember when you were the new kid on the block, I also remember you posting some processes that produced some very nice gold. I think we all needed a slap up side of the head from Harold at one time or another. :lol:


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## its-all-a-lie (May 27, 2013)

There is always that one child who has received direction from someone and learned the process. This kid is amazing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmzV--3iJjo

The only problem i have is he does not wear his seatbelt.


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## redneckdude (May 27, 2013)

I thank all of yall for the advice and I know that I have a lot of homework I wasn't trying to piss people off with my questions. was just trying to get some info and the acid method I was talking about was the nitric and hydrochloric method. I understand that there are safety matters and dangerous fumes with this method. and sorry if I seemed like the kid in a crane. but I am an adult and I also understand about safety precautions, being in the military for seven years. trust me I have had a lot of safety precautions. the reason I asked about the gold plated jewelry was that I was curious because is isn't karated gold but only plated and was wondering if it would even matter if I inquarted more silver because it isn't karated gold. I understand the inquarting method of adding silver the gold to get it down to a six karat alloy. so that it is easier to desolve. thank you for your input and time. and yes I will do the homework.


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## redneckdude (May 27, 2013)

thank you jenje for your answer.


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## redneckdude (May 27, 2013)

also anther thing from the kid in the crane, one of the inquarting methods that like is: 6k: Gr X Kt = Pg, Gr - Pg = Bm, Pg X 3 = Mn, Mn - Bm = Ag. Gr = grams, Kt = karat divided by 24 (ex; 14k divided by 24k = .583), Pg = pure gold, Bm = base metals already in the karat gold, Mn = total metals needed to produce alloy of 6k, Ag = amount of sterling or 925 silver needed for 6k alloy. do anyof you use this method of inquarting.


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## artart47 (May 28, 2013)

readneckdude.
I've only mastered AP and have only begun using nitric (AR) for doing inquarted jewelry. Nitric scares me and I'm learning slowly. second batch.
All the plated stuff I've collected I've stockpiled. after I get skilled at AR I'll get to it
They say that the sulfuic acid cell is the way to go with plated. If you go to Lasersteve's webbsite and usen the search they have great videos about building and using the cell. Lasersteve also sells everthing for building it .
be patient, read and learn everthing you can find untill you fully understand how the process works and the operation of the cell, how you recover your gold from the solution.
Safety is a must! read everything about the hazards of hot sulfuric acid.
To answer your question about plated stuff. You could recover the thin gold by dissolving all of the base metals but it would take so much acid and produce a geart amout of wastes to deal with. From what I understand, the stripping cell is much more effitient. It disasociates the gold from the surface and drops it as a powder that can be processed when the cell is full.
Hope this helps. artart47


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## redneckdude (May 28, 2013)

thank you artart47 for the input. thats what i was thinking with the ar method. about doing two nitric baths for the begining to disolve all the base metals in the plated jewlery, then washing the gold with distilled h2o then, running it in aqua regia to dissolve the gold, add a couple drop of sulferic to disipate all the lead out. once that is done add in urea to nutrealize the acid, then drop it with sodium metabisulfate. thank you for the info and advice.


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## jeneje (May 28, 2013)

redneckdude said:


> thank you artart47 for the input. thats what i was thinking with the ar method. about doing two nitric baths for the begining to disolve all the base metals in the plated jewlery, then washing the gold with distilled h2o then, running it in aqua regia to dissolve the gold, add a couple drop of sulferic to disipate all the lead out. once that is done add in urea to nutrealize the acid, then drop it with sodium metabisulfate. thank you for the info and advice.


redneckdude, why are you using HNO3(nitric) on gold plated? Also AR (aqua Regia) on foils? From what I have read on this thread you would be better served to stop what you are doing, and do a little more research on the type of material you want to process. It is recommended that gold plated jewelry be put into a gold cell or at the least AP to remove all the plating as foils. Then use HCL/CL to dissolve the foils and SMB to drop the gold and then washed with Harolds washing technique. SMB Stands for sodium metabsulfite not sodium metabsulfate. Sodium metabsulfate will not drop gold as I understand it.

Just my 2 cents here.
Ken


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## g_axelsson (May 28, 2013)

Just an advice to you and other reading this thread, be careful how you spell things...



redneckdude said:


> ... drop of sulferic to ...


Sulphuric or sulfuric is corrrect, no problem we understand...



redneckdude said:


> ... nutrealize the acid...


... yet again no problem but it is spelled neutralize ...



redneckdude said:


> ... drop it with sodium metabisulfate...


... which is a correct spelling of the wrong chemical. It will not drop any gold. What you want is sodium metabisulfite.

Notice how easy just one letter wrong can be the difference between failure and success.
If you had bought sodium metabisulfate and asked for help but spelled it sodium metabisulfite then no one would know why it didn't work.

Göran


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## artart47 (May 29, 2013)

The king's message to the camander concearning the capture of a solder who is either a traitor or a spie for the king who is acting as a traitor to infiltrait the enemy.


EXECUTE NOT,RETURN TO ME!

or

EXECUTE,NOT RETURN TO ME!

The power of a comma!
"ate/ite"

artart47


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## g_axelsson (May 29, 2013)

Do you mean "solder" or "soldier"?  

Göran


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## redneckdude (May 29, 2013)

again just a thought i had i have been reading hokes book link on here and it has given me alot of info.


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## butcher (May 29, 2013)

Sounds like your on the right track now, keep up the good work, soon you will be amazed at all of the information available to you, it will take some time to get the the whole picture and of how and why, but it will revealed to you, as you research. the more you research and study the more information you will find, which will be helpful to all aspects of this business and art, and to help you get a better understanding of the precious metals from buying, testing, recovery and refining and other uses in this industry.
As in any science or work, education and experience are the keys to success.

You have just taken your first step in a long journey, enjoy the trip.


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## redneckdude (May 29, 2013)

man sorry for the spelling. also I have been watching lazersteves video tutorials and they have been really helpful as well. and with hokes book. maybe now I wont sound like a complete retard. again from your new guy the kid in the crane thank you all for the helpful criticism and advice.


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## artart47 (May 31, 2013)

Soldier. long day, not much sleep. I was posting while having first coffee trying to wake up. ha ha!


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