# 160 pounds of gold pins!



## silversaddle1 (Jul 17, 2010)

Thought you guys would like to see this. That's 160 pounds of clean pins and plated electronic scrap! We are getting an accurate weight count on all our stockpiles and this tub was the first one done. Many more to go.


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 17, 2010)

Oh that is nice looking, can I come play in it. 8)


----------



## silversaddle1 (Jul 17, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Oh that is nice looking, can I come play in it. 8)



Sure! You can climb it and plant a flag on top! :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## EDI Refining (Jul 17, 2010)

These for sale? Or you processin yourself ?


----------



## silversaddle1 (Jul 17, 2010)

P3M said:


> These for sale? Or you processin yourself ?



Neither right now. Someday I'm gonna learn to do it. Until then, keep piling the stuff up. This is the tip of the sword! (Well maybe a third of it!) :lol: :lol:


----------



## Anonymous (Jul 29, 2010)

Could anyone please recommend an efficient method to separate the gold pins from the CPU's?


----------



## goldenchild (Jul 29, 2010)

Looks like youre gonna need a fairly large stripping cell to process these. Where did you get all the material?


----------



## Chumbawamba (Jul 31, 2010)

I commend you on such a clean kitchen. Your wife is gonna be pissed when she comes home and finds a big pile of shit on her immaculate countertop


----------



## goldenchild (Jul 31, 2010)

Chumbawamba said:


> I commend you on such a clean kitchen. Your wife is gonna be pissed when she comes home and finds a big pile of shit on her immaculate countertop


As stated on many other threads... She will change her tune once shes holding the gold in her hand


----------



## rewalston (Jul 31, 2010)

goldenchild said:


> Chumbawamba said:
> 
> 
> > I commend you on such a clean kitchen. Your wife is gonna be pissed when she comes home and finds a big pile of shit on her immaculate countertop
> ...



Oh if only I could get to that point...my wife is getting tired of stepping on motherboards and cards that have fallen out of my stock pile. I keep telling her that once I get there I'll make her a golden bandaid....ooooh if looks could kill

Rusty


----------



## HAuCl4 (Jul 31, 2010)

What is the estimated amount of gold from a pile like that?


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 31, 2010)

12-13 oz.


----------



## goldenchild (Jul 31, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> 12-13 oz.



I would say closer to 5-10oz


----------



## glorycloud (Jul 31, 2010)

Geee, at either estimate it's a nice savings account!! 8) 

Let's see 5 oz at $1181 an ounce = $5905 and 10 oz = $11,810!! 
13 oz = $15,353!! 

Congrats SS!!!


----------



## HAuCl4 (Jul 31, 2010)

What would be the fastest way to recover and refine gold from that pile?.


----------



## qst42know (Jul 31, 2010)

I suspect cyanide would be what the pros would use.


----------



## samuel-a (Aug 1, 2010)

qst42know said:


> I suspect cyanide would be what the pros would use.



Actually, the pro's will, probably melt it into a refiner's bar...


----------



## qst42know (Aug 1, 2010)

Why melt when all the value is on the outside readily accessed? 

Karat scraps yes, but in this case there is no point in blending it with base metals.

Cyanide or a sulfuric stripping cell with a tumbler.

What do the pro's have to say?


----------



## butcher (Aug 1, 2010)

I am no pro, but for home refiner make nitric acid with them, using sodium nitrate, 60% sulfuric acid, distill nitric, use boiling water to keep copper sulfate salts soluble and filter gold foils. reuse copper sulfate, no byproducts.

here's how this hillbilly doe's it.
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6199


----------



## Anonymous (Aug 1, 2010)

> but for home refiner make nitric acid with them, using sodium nitrate, 60% sulfuric acid, distill nitric, use boiling water to keep copper sulfate salts soluble and filter gold foils.


Several problems with that,first the time it would take to make enough acid to process 160lbs of pins would be almost inconcievable,second,running a boiling acid through any traditional filter is almost not possible.They tear and rip apart too easily,especially with nitric and sulfuric acids.However if you can find a synthetic filter you may be ok.
I would have suggested seperating those really thin plates,however 160lbs would take you an aweful long time.I always keep my material seperated by surface to mass size,and material containing silver goes into a seperate pile.
You have many choices to choose from,but it depends on your experience and tools.The easiest way would be nitric.I get 55 gallons for $210(about $3.80 a gallon),If you can get it at that price I would suggest doing them all in nitric.You can always deplate them in a cell,but of course there's the energy and time consumed to do them all.Unless you have a tumbler they will have to be constantly attended to,not to mention how many times you will have to change the acid.My cell is about 20 gallons with a tumbler and a drain spout about 3 inches from the bottom.This way I can run countless pounds of material,let it settle over night,drain the (relatively)clean acid on top,put it to the side,then rinse my gold into another vessel for washing.Then you can put the acid back in the cell and keep going.I currently use a 4 gallon container for my tumbler and can effectively process about 10lbs at once.
The least expensive method for most people is either the cell or AP.


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Aug 1, 2010)

Might want to think about running a magnet first.


----------



## goldsilverpro (Aug 1, 2010)

$60/pound would be 8 oz. Many refiners have CN stripping capabilities - it's so easy and fast to do, that's how I would do it. For some, they might just melt it, cast it into bars, and ship it along with everything else. It would be one of the two. Heaven forbid, no professional refiner on the planet would ridiculously dissolve the base metals. That would surely be a loser. However, this is a hobbyist forum. You do what you can do.


----------



## samuel-a (Aug 1, 2010)

qst42know said:


> Why melt when all the value is on the outside readily accessed?
> 
> Karat scraps yes, but in this case there is no point in blending it with base metals.
> 
> ...



well... sorry for the confusion, but by "pro" i didn't ment for the home refiner, rather to the large recycler's that also salvage the copper, zinc, lead, silver, tin, iron and beryllium that present in this kind of lot.


----------



## Anonymous (Aug 1, 2010)

> Heaven forbid, no professional refiner on the planet would ridiculously dissolve the base metals. That would surely be a loser.


I can see how what I wrote was confusing to some,I was reffering to the "really thin plates" I mentioned in the beginning,being processed in nitric.
I am sure you read the part about me running 10 lbs of pins at a time in my cell,so obviously I only dissolve certain pins in nitric.I will try to be more specific.My apologies.


----------



## butcher (Aug 1, 2010)

Mic I do not think you understand the killing of two birds one rock 
it is how I would refine them as I do not use the sulfuric or tumbler cell, and do not have a source for bulk cheap nitric acid.

Quote:but for home refiner make nitric acid with them, using sodium nitrate, 60% sulfuric acid, distill nitric, use boiling water to keep copper sulfate salts soluble and filter gold foils.

Mic Quote "Several problems with that,first the time it would take to make enough acid to process 160lbs of pins would be almost inconcievable,"

the process makes nitric acid as it deplates the pins.
and you have distilled nitric.
copper sulfate can also be used.

Mic Quote "second,running a boiling acid through any traditional filter is almost not possible.They tear and rip apart too easily,especially with nitric and sulfuric acids.However if you can find a synthetic filter you may be ok."

the copper sulfate solution filters easily no problem using paper filters to seperate gold foils from copper sulfate solution.


----------



## Anonymous (Aug 1, 2010)

> Mic I do not think you understand the killing of two birds one rock


You mean "Killing two birds with one stone" and yes I do know what it means.I just misunderstood what you meant.
I am not familiar with that process,so I will not speculate.


----------



## goldenchild (Aug 2, 2010)

I think nitric would be the wrong way to go about this. Straigt AR would be bad for sure. You would need about 68 gallons of nitric(if you're lucky) to get rid of all the base metals. Cyanide or a stripping cell would be the way to go. Since most of us on the forum have never handled or even seen cyanide in use(which I think is a good thing) most would resort to the stripping cell.


----------



## HAuCl4 (Aug 2, 2010)

Been thinking. If I wanted all the gold in 1 day or less at minimal expense and without having a large electrolytic copper plant, I still don't know what I would do.

A large flat sulphuric cell with large flat electrodes seems to be the cheapest, fastest I can think of, but for some reason it doesn't satisfy me.


----------



## dtectr (Aug 2, 2010)

mic said:


> > but for home refiner make nitric acid with them, using sodium nitrate, 60% sulfuric acid, distill nitric, use boiling water to keep copper sulfate salts soluble and filter gold foils.
> 
> 
> Several problems with that,first the time it would take to make enough acid to process 160lbs of pins would be almost inconcievable,second,running a boiling acid through any traditional filter is almost not possible.They tear and rip apart too easily,especially with nitric and sulfuric acids.However if you can find a synthetic filter you may be ok.
> ...


mic
do you have a photo of your set-up? you can e-mail it or PM me, if you want. I saw the youTube video for tumbler - just wondering how everyone is adapting it.
thanks
jordan
P.S. if this is off topic, I apologize.


----------



## Chumbawamba (Aug 4, 2010)

GSP,

How would one go about processing this pile with cyanide? A "Reader's Digest" version will suffice, but the more details the better


----------



## lazersteve (Aug 4, 2010)

I'm not GSP, but here's a collection of *some* of his previous Cyanide posts:

GSP Cyanide How-Tos

Steve


----------



## goldgetternews (Aug 4, 2010)

silversaddle1 said:


> Thought you guys would like to see this. That's 160 pounds of clean pins and plated electronic scrap! We are getting an accurate weight count on all our stockpiles and this tub was the first one done. Many more to go.



Hope I'm doing this right, it is the first time I have replied on this forum.
Impressive pile, it makes my few rolls of pins look like an anthill.
Years ago I stripped the plating from some pins and fingers but not enough to amount to anything. However I have seen vials of gold from electronic scrap in tourist shops in Arizona. It looked like a lot of gold but in reality was not much at all.


----------



## goldgetternews (Aug 4, 2010)

goldenchild said:


> I think nitric would be the wrong way to go about this. Straigt AR would be bad for sure. You would need about 68 gallons of nitric(if you're lucky) to get rid of all the base metals. Cyanide or a stripping cell would be the way to go. Since most of us on the forum have never handled or even seen cyanide in use(which I think is a good thing) most would resort to the stripping cell.



You would spend a fortune on Nitric or AR
There is a refining supply in NY. I think Corning, they sell all kinds of equipment. I konw the have stripping cells.
I have even considered using a ball mill to separate the gold from the base metal, then separate it just as if placer mining that way eliminating most chemicals.


----------



## Harold_V (Aug 5, 2010)

goldgetternews said:


> I have even considered using a ball mill to separate the gold from the base metal, then separate it just as if placer mining that way eliminating most chemicals.


That must be some ball mill. Are you sure about separating values from base metals by that system?

Harold


----------



## arthur kierski (Aug 5, 2010)

here we have a product called gold stripper(cianide based)---1litre strips 8grams of gold---
if you have (let say )10ounces of gold =311grams----you will need about 40 (litres) of the product at a cost of 6dollars per litre=240dollars plus less then a kilo of zinc powder to precipitate the gold
i do this almost every week and works very well----last week i did this work with 80 kilos of cellphone boards and obtained 0,13 grams of gold per kilo=10,4grams---i could have done with 1,5litres of gold stripper---but i used 4litres because of space---so with 24dollars i made 400dollars of gold
By the way:gold in celllphone boards have a maximun of 0,13grams of gold per kilo(barren boards)------thanks and regards to all
Arthur


----------



## Oz (Aug 5, 2010)

Sure enough Arthur those of us in the US envy your nitric/cyanide pricing and availability. 

I just had a friend of mine from Lima come to your town. If I had known in advance I would have put the 2 of you in touch so you could show her around. You would have enjoyed the company, sweet girl.


----------



## Chumbawamba (Aug 5, 2010)

Arthur, so by "barren board" you mean all the components are stripped, leaving just the PCB? If so, what do you do with the rest of the components, since they contain PGMs and some silver?

I have often considered mulling or ball milling the boards since they are small and easy to handle in a smaller mill. The idea would be to produce a nice pile of "ore" and then process it further with incineration, then various chemical leaches. Would this be a way to go, in your experience, or is the cyanide leaching method you use preferable?


----------



## goldenchild (Aug 5, 2010)

Chumbawamba said:
 

> Arthur, so by "barren board" you mean all the components are stripped, leaving just the PCB? If so, what do you do with the rest of the components, since they contain PGMs and some silver?
> 
> I have often considered mulling or ball milling the boards since they are small and easy to handle in a smaller mill. The idea would be to produce a nice pile of "ore" and then process it further with incineration, then various chemical leaches. Would this be a way to go, in your experience, or is the cyanide leaching method you use preferable?



Don't incinerate boards from e-waste.


----------



## qst42know (Aug 5, 2010)

Arthur.

I was wondering if it was necessary to depopulate the boards to strip in cyanide or is that the way the boards came to you?


----------



## arthur kierski (Aug 5, 2010)

the boards are depopulated and the population(chips,contacts,small ics etc)are incinerated and then nitric to extract ag and pd-and at last ar to extract the gold
the barren boards after depopulating is where the gold stripper is used-----
i hope that in this thread i answered the various question asked----
oz,it was a pleasure to see you in the forum again----your friend woul be welcomed here in Saõ Paulo


----------



## Oz (Aug 6, 2010)

arthur kierski said:


> oz,it was a pleasure to see you in the forum again----your friend woul be welcomed here in Saõ Paulo



Even if I am still short of time here I will always make time for you privately. You are good people with intriguing questions. Those questions have led me down paths that I would have not taken otherwise, for that I thank you. We have had fun together, both learning from the other.


----------



## HAuCl4 (Aug 6, 2010)

Will cyanide leach the gold well with so much copper in there?. Wouldn't the copper cement the gold out of solution?. I have read and seen cyanide used for leaching metals out of ores, both in tanks and heaps, but not for gold plated copper. Is there a manual for this process?. 

Interesting.


----------



## Oz (Aug 6, 2010)

Most electronics have a nickle barrier between the gold and copper. If you really want to know cyanide GSP is your man.


----------



## Harold_V (Aug 6, 2010)

HAuCl4 said:


> Will cyanide leach the gold well with so much copper in there?. Wouldn't the copper cement the gold out of solution?. I have read and seen cyanide used for leaching metals out of ores, both in tanks and heaps, but not for gold plated copper. Is there a manual for this process?.
> 
> Interesting.


I had one negative experience stripping some heavily plated copper base alloys that lacked the nickel barrier that prevents migration of gold in to the base metals. Once the gold plating is perforated, there is aggressive dissolution of the base metal, slowing, if not stopping, further removal of the plating.

As I recall, there are buffered stripping compounds that limit that problem, which tends to be a non-issue if the nickel barrier is in place. Modern plating techniques demand it be there.

Harold


----------



## HAuCl4 (Aug 7, 2010)

Thanks Harold. So cyanide has little effect on nickel, but will readily attack the gold plating?. Will nickel cement the gold out of solution?. I'm sure there must be many nuances to this process. Mmmm.


----------



## Lou (Aug 7, 2010)

Gold complexes much more easily with cyanide than copper let alone cyanide at low CN- concentrations. The electrochemical series loses way to the thermodynamics of forming a stable complex.

So keep the concentration low. A few organic molecules around to hinder unwanted redox might also be beneficial.

Lou


----------



## Harold_V (Aug 8, 2010)

Lou said:


> Gold complexes much more easily with cyanide than copper let alone cyanide at low CN- concentrations. The electrochemical series loses way to the thermodynamics of forming a stable complex.
> 
> So keep the concentration low. A few organic molecules around to hinder unwanted redox might also be beneficial.
> 
> Lou


Yep---what Lou said. When using cyanide for heap leaching, or even in vats (agitation), if the percentage of free cyanide is held under .02%, copper is not dissolved, nor does it precipitate any of the gold or silver. That's the beauty of using cyanide for processing ores, assuming they are amenable to cyanide. The only consumption is that which dissolves the values, assuming there are no cyanicides present. 

Tons of ore can be leached for a few dollars. Cyanide, when it was readily available, was not expensive. 

Harold


----------



## goldsilverpro (Aug 8, 2010)

HAuCl4 said:


> Thanks Harold. So cyanide has little effect on nickel, but will readily attack the gold plating?. Will nickel cement the gold out of solution?. I'm sure there must be many nuances to this process. Mmmm.



The cementation reaction requires that the metal (that's doing the cementing) must dissolve. For example, when you use copper to cement silver from a nitrate solution, the copper dissolves at a predictable rate. 

In the case of cyanide, the nickel doesn't appreciably dissolve enough to maintain a cementation reaction. However, any exposed copper will dissolve rapidly and will cement the gold.

Simply put, when gold is dissolved, it is done through an oxidation reaction. When it is cemented, it is reduced. You can look at these as opposites. By maintaining the temperature and oxidizer concentration at a high enough level, it is possible to swing the reaction to the oxidation side and prevent the reduction (cementation) of gold onto exposed copper.

When tumbling in a cement mixer for an extended time, the nickel will tend to wear off mechanically and expose the copper. For this reason, enough cyanide and peroxide are used to dissolve the gold quickly - about one or two minutes is normal.


----------



## HAuCl4 (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks Lou, Harold and GSP. Never thought about it that way. With ores, cyanide basically leaves the crushed rock barren of metals (heap or tank).

So cyanide leach would be the method of choice for this 160 lb lot of plated material?.


----------



## Anonymous (Aug 8, 2010)

Harold wrote:


> When using cyanide for heap leaching, or even in vats (agitation), if the percentage of free cyanide is held under .02%, copper is not dissolved,


Gold Silver Pro wote:


> However, any exposed copper will dissolve rapidly and will cement the gold.



Someone care to ellaborate?
And why cause the sollution to be spent,when you can recover with carbon,and incinerate,and save the solution.


----------



## goldsilverpro (Aug 8, 2010)

mic said:


> Harold wrote:
> 
> 
> > When using cyanide for heap leaching, or even in vats (agitation), if the percentage of free cyanide is held under .02%, copper is not dissolved,
> ...



If my math is right, if the pins are worth $60/pound at a $1200 market, and, if the CN dissolves the gold with 100% efficiency, I figure it will take about 100 gallons of .02% CN solution to do the job. Don't forget that the .02% is a maximum figure - if the CN is made weaker than that (or, if the pins are higher than $60/pound), it will take more solution. Since you will never get 100% efficiency with the CN, it may take twice (or, 10, or, 100 times - I really have no idea) that much solution. In practice, you maybe could use less solution and then occasionally analyze the free CN and add more NaCN to bring it up to snuff - I can see potential problems with this, however. The weak CN solution will dissolve the gold very slowly - maybe, it will take weeks - maybe, it will never completely dissolve all of the gold. Also, you will probably have to tumble the parts. Then, there are potential losses in the incineration.

To strip the 160# with strong CN/H2O2 in a mixer, you might end up with a total of 15-30 gallons of solution, including rinses. It could all be stripped in about 30 minutes. Then, you zinc it and, if you are good at all of this, you will have pure gold bars the next day. The efficiency can be close to 100%, if you do everything right.

No contest, IMHO!!!


----------



## samuel-a (Aug 8, 2010)

A question for the pro's.

can one melt assorted computer pins and collect the gold with lead/silver and then cupel it?


----------



## qst42know (Aug 8, 2010)

I'm not a pro but I have tried that very thing. 

That would be very inefficient as all the base metals would need to be dissolved into the lead and then oxidized back out either as a slag or absorbed into the cupel.

It is done in a fire assay but difficult in quantity.


----------



## CHARLIE GREENLER (Aug 8, 2010)

About how much palladium and silver would that pile produce?????I have 50 pound of mixed pins -n- stuff myself.


----------



## goldsilverpro (Aug 8, 2010)

CHARLIE GREENLER said:


> About how much palladium and silver would that pile produce?????I have 50 pound of mixed pins -n- stuff myself.



Very possibly - none. For what technical reason would these be present? Palladium can be used as a migration barrier in place of nickel, but the only place I've seen that used is on plated jewelry, due to people being allergic to nickel. That whole pile looks gold to me, with the exception of very few little pieces.


----------



## HAuCl4 (Aug 9, 2010)

goldsilverpro said:


> mic said:
> 
> 
> > Harold wrote:
> ...




1 day...Good enough for me!. Thanks a lot GSP.


----------



## goldenchild (Aug 9, 2010)

I wonder if SS has been taking this all in. SS have you decided on how you'r e going to attack your 3 heaps?


----------



## silversaddle1 (Aug 9, 2010)

Yes, I've been keeping an eye on the thread. Been busy adding to the pile since I posted it. I have added another 15 pounds of pins. I had to start a new bin for them. Looks like 160 pounds of pins will fill a rubbermaid commercial grade tote. These totes contained cow medicine and are heavy duty. So, I'm up to 175 pounds of pins and there is plenty more to pull. Just got a whole box of mid 70's Winchester cable ends to clean. Those are my favorite type of pin to clean as they have real nice looking pins in them. I will try to post a new pic if I can find time.

I think the cyanide route would be the way to go as I have about 100 pounds of fingers to refine as well. It would be nice to just take it all to one place and have it all done at once. I'm in no hurry, it's kinda like my stash. We make our money on all the other stuff we scrap out of these mainframes, the pins/fingers are the cream!


----------



## rewalston (Aug 10, 2010)

Hey Silversaddle, mind if I ask what your source for pins were? I've been pulling pins from motherboard and IDE cable, etc...I must really be bored 

Rusty



silversaddle1 said:


> Yes, I've been keeping an eye on the thread. Been busy adding to the pile since I posted it. I have added another 15 pounds of pins. I had to start a new bin for them. Looks like 160 pounds of pins will fill a rubbermaid commercial grade tote. These totes contained cow medicine and are heavy duty. So, I'm up to 175 pounds of pins and there is plenty more to pull. Just got a whole box of mid 70's Winchester cable ends to clean. Those are my favorite type of pin to clean as they have real nice looking pins in them. I will try to post a new pic if I can find time.
> 
> I think the cyanide route would be the way to go as I have about 100 pounds of fingers to refine as well. It would be nice to just take it all to one place and have it all done at once. I'm in no hurry, it's kinda like my stash. We make our money on all the other stuff we scrap out of these mainframes, the pins/fingers are the cream!


----------



## silversaddle1 (Aug 10, 2010)

rewalston said:


> Hey Silversaddle, mind if I ask what your source for pins were? I've been pulling pins from motherboard and IDE cable, etc...I must really be bored
> 
> Rusty



We do a lot of data center computer recycling. So there are large mainframe type computers, servers, disk arrays, etc. And we get tons of cable. Many times we will find layers upon layers of cables under a raised floor. It looks like they never removed any of the old cable, just layed newer stuff right over the old. The older cable is where we get a lot of the pins from, but also from backplanes, and the computers themselves.


----------

