# Gold Price, what's happening ?



## Noxx (Aug 8, 2008)

Hello folks,
Just wondering, is there any reasons why the gold price has fallen so much lastly ? It is now 850$/oz...


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## usaman65 (Aug 8, 2008)

time to buy


Dont worry it will go right back up when isrial hits iran.

kev


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 8, 2008)

When I was refining, I always made more money when there was movement in the price of gold. It brings stuff out of the woodwork. I didn't care whether it went up or down, as long as it did something. When it's going up, people sell their scrap because they think it might stop going up. When it goes down, they sell because they think it might go down more. When it's stagnant, people just sit on it and wait around to see what happens.


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## Rag and Bone (Aug 8, 2008)

Noxx said:


> Hello folks,
> Just wondering, is there any reasons why the gold price has fallen so much lastly ? It is now 850$/oz...



The dollar has been climbing out of the toilet and the fat cats have been selling off commodities. I think gold is going to turn around very soon with Russia attacking Georgia. Iran will make some big talk to push the price of oil up and intimidate Israel. These are my predictions! 

For the record, I would rather have global stability and low gold prices than the other way around.


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Aug 8, 2008)

Rag and Bone is right on the money. Literally...

The Dollar is going up.

The value of gold <b>NEVER</b> changes. It's The Dollar that changes.


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## Anonymous (Aug 8, 2008)

Rag and Bone said:


> Noxx said:
> 
> 
> > Hello folks,
> ...



I thaught that I was the only one that noticed, that Iran only really made waves when oil went down, you know thats were they get thier money.
We should just ignore them or do the job of putting them in thier place.


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## Rag and Bone (Aug 8, 2008)

The Iraq war will look like a 4-H bake sale if we get tangled up with Iran. It looks like Israel might make a move. With the position they are in and the way Iran talks, I can't blame them. I wonder what would happen to oil if Iran shutdown the Strait of Hormuz.  

Too bad all that blood and treasure was squandered in Iraq. We kinda needed that.


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Aug 8, 2008)

I guess if Israel attacks Iran then it will be very nasty.

Iran says they have 10,000 missiles that will launch simultaneously at their neighboring countries if they're attacked. Somehow, I believe them...

There isn't a way to shoot down 10,000 missiles... at least none that I know of.


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## Never_Evil (Aug 8, 2008)

Gold did take a $100 drop in the past month....but look over to Rhodium....its back around $7700 and that is where the money is to be made. If you do the chart history of this metal it topped $10K not too long ago. If crap does start up in the Middle East again, this metal will sky rocket faster than any of them, Platinum being a close second.

Its easy for me to be an armchair investor because I have no money. Take my advice with a grain of salt or toss it in the crapper, either way everything will go up soon.


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## SapunovDmitry (Aug 9, 2008)

Maybe it's because of the gold thrown into the market during the war preparation (kind of cashing like with the credit card)?
Look at the Ossetia and the Iraq.


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## Oz (Aug 9, 2008)

I would just hold on to your PMs if you can afford to, as this is probably a short term slide in price. All commodities that trade internationally and are priced in dollars like PMs and oil are taking a hit in price due to the strengthening of the dollar. As a currency gets more value it requires less of it to buy the same gallon of oil or ounce of gold. The reason why I think this will be short term is that it is not that the dollar has gained worth or stability, it is that other currencies have lost value and stability. Read the news in Europe's papers, they are starting to look like a US newspaper when it comes to economics. Therefore on the CBOT dollar index it looks like the dollar is getting stronger compared to the basket of currencies used to value it, when in fact all the fiat currencies are coming unraveled and devalued, it is just that the other currencies are doing it at a faster rate than the dollar at this point and time. The dollar is continuing to lose value with every greenback printed out of thin air to pay off bad debts of corporate America, and every bail-out or nationalization trying to make everything look ok in Mary Poppins Land.

Other countries in general were smart enough not to write the high risk mortgage loans, however they were not smart enough to not buy those loans as CDOs (collateralized debt obligations) in large blocks as investments. So now they too are inheriting the financial woes of the US mortgage industry. Add to that the slowing of the US economy and consumer spending and a Europe’s dependency on foreign tourism for much of their economy. 

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the public at large to realize it is a destabilizing of all currencies that is occurring and go back to the safety of precious metals, instead of over printed promissory notes backed only by faith. Well placed fear and unrest will return to the investment community likely sooner than later. What’s the last bit of good financial or economic news you have seen?

As a side note on Pd, Pt, and Rh. As a group 50% of their consumption worldwide is for auto catalysts. New auto sales are down everywhere, you be the judge on supply and demand. 

Oz


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Aug 9, 2008)

Bingo Oz!

The beginning of all of this is to OUST The Federal Reserve. Seeing as how they aren't even a part of our government it should be easy to do. It is however, the exact opposite and not easy to do at all. They have their dirty, lying, cowardly hooks in every part of our system and they need to be severed. The sooner, the better.

Here is the funny part of it all. They print the money that's worth nothing, and collect interest on it. With the interest they buy real things like Gold, PGM's, Silver and Oil. They laugh all the way to the bank... The Constitution also states that it's illegal for anybody but the government to print money... nobody has respect for this wonderful contract anymore...

We're being scammed and stolen from, but as long as Fox News, CNN, and the like are in control of the information then Americans won't realize it until it's too late.

Personally I think people that promote disinformation and Orwellian methodologies are some of the worst kinds of criminals this world has ever seen.


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## SapunovDmitry (Aug 9, 2008)

Looks like it makes sense.
Maybe you're right Oz.


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## Oz (Aug 9, 2008)

Yea, the Federal Reserve is no more federal than the Federal Express mail service. All it would take to remove the Federal Reserve would be a Congressional vote, thats how we got it in 1913. Good luck having that happen though, it will require serious civil unrest. The very reason bankers convinced our politicians to allow the Federal Reserve system to be implemented was that it meant that Congress could get funds for whatever they wanted without direct taxation or approval by issuing bonds as collateral to the Federal Reserve and receiving 10 times the face value of these bonds as spendable greenbacks. Notice I said w/o direct taxation, like anything the excess cash put into the system dilutes the existing cash on hand devaluing it. In essence an indirect taxation without informing the public, or having to open themselves to the criticism of having another tax, or increase in tax. Currently Government expenditures account for 20% of gross domestic product in the US, this is what they openly admit to at least.


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Aug 9, 2008)

And it wasn't ratified by The States either... go figure...

A healthy respect for The Constitution would make all of these Economy, Mortgage, Monetary, Foreign Policy issues fade away... but noooo. Why would they? Oh I remember... Because it makes them accountable again!


Good stuff Oz.


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## Oz (Aug 9, 2008)

The individual states did in essence “ratify” it. It was the states representatives “elected congressmen” that voted in Congress to approve it.


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 9, 2008)

The Fed is the master of the biggest tax we have. They, alone, are the creators of inflation, the hidden tax.

The Fed's entire purpose of existence is to siphon off money from the citizenry and put it into the hands of the elite. And they're really good at it.

I am presently reading "The Creature from Jekyll Island", which is about the Federal Reserve. Great book about this privately owned cartel.


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## Oz (Aug 9, 2008)

GSP, 

I’ve had that book for many years, I even used to buy them as gifts to people that I thought might have the patience and desire to read it. It is not the easiest read and if I remember right it runs about a thousand pages. It is however the best all encompassing book on how money works with emphasis on the US system that I have ever read to date. Given the economics of today’s world it would not be a bad idea for me to re-read it again.


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## Oz (Aug 9, 2008)

Noxx,
You must be buying a lot of gold! Reading this press release out of Dubai it appears that Canada is hogging it.
Note also by the import/export numbers how much they are stockpiling. 


Dubai Multi Commodities Centre (DMCC) announced today that gold trade through Dubai reached $13.07bn in the first half of 2008, an increase of 48% from $8.84bn during the same period in 2007.
In the first six months of 2008, a total of 265 tonnes of gold was imported into Dubai. During the same period, gold exports from Dubai reached 179 tonnes, an increase of 26% from 142 tonnes in 2007. Gold price averaged $910 per ounce during the first half of 2008, up from $650 per ounce during the same period in 2007. 

In the second quarter of 2008, gold trade grew by 26% to reach $6.01bn from $4.764bn in the same period in 2007. In the second quarter of 2008, Dubai imported 143 tonnes and exported 64 tonnes of gold. 

In terms of trading partners, India, Switzerland and Canada were top importers from Dubai, while India, Malaysia and Switzerland were top exporters to Dubai. 

Ian MacDonald, Executive Director for Gold & Precious Metals, DMCC, said: 'Demand for gold has been resilient to global market conditions. Despite high volatility in prices, gold trade through Dubai continued to surge, reiterating the emirate's prominence as a global centre for gold and precious metals. 

'The sharp rise in prices seen earlier this year has been a prime driver in improving export volumes, and has boosted the role of gold as an inflation-hedging instrument. Given the current bullish sentiment of investors and gold's 'safe haven' status, the outlook for gold trade is promising in the remaining months of 2008, he added. 

He also said that the region will witness more initiatives in a shift towards gold exchange traded funds (ETF). Earlier this year, DMCC in association with the World Gold Council launched the Sharia-compliant gold shares, the first dollar-priced security of its kind, to be listed on the Dubai International Financial Exchange (DIFX).


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Aug 10, 2008)

Well to my knowledge the amendment was "passed" when most of Congress was on Christmas break with their families. Therefore it was never "properly" ratified.


Just what I've gathered.

Also, The I.R.S. is The Fed's strong-arm. Not to say that good people don't work for The I.R.S. I'm sure most of them are unaware too.

Our Forefathers would have bled for these things if required...

Sad... 4 months out of every year is basically worked for nothing. That's the real kicker that gets people interested... and pissed-off!


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## Oz (Aug 10, 2008)

Now that you mention it Nugget I do recall there was some shenanigans as to Christmas break, they had already tried to pass similar legislation several times unsuccessfully. I do not unfortunately know enough about congressional rules and procedure to know if legal process was followed or not. It is amazing how few are actually present for some very important votes on a regular basis. 

It is much like your mention of the IRS, the federal income tax was to be a temporary tax to handle war debt. 

You can insist and even be correct that neither is legal all the way to prison for refusing to comply. Legal or not they are the “law”.

What concerns me the most is that all fiat currencies eventually fail due to governments inflating the money supply to suit their own desires and expenses. As fiat currencies become valueless due to overprinting, the public at large will eventually demand a currency backed by something to stabilize economies. It will most likely be gold and silver. The last time this happened in the United States president Roosevelt signed executive order 6102 on April 5th, 1933. This order nullified all private contracts that calling for payment in gold. Private individuals were allowed to keep $100 in gold coins and there were exceptions for dental and jewelry needs but the rest of privately held gold had to be turned in to the Federal Government paying individuals $20.67 per ounce. Violators of this executive order were subject to fines up to $10,000 and 10 years in prison. 

Having confiscated US citizens gold for $20.67 Roosevelt then promptly raised the US official gold price to $35 for an instant increase of 41% in value of the governments gold compared to the paper money they issued to the citizens to “confiscate” it. So even in a gold and silver backed currency government will steal from and fleece its citizens.

So this is how he funded his “New Deal” trying to bring the country out of the depression by federally funded work programs. So why did the public allow this? It was the depression with 25% and greater unemployment, farm commodity prices falling causing farms to go into foreclosure, and even banks going under, for of all things going bankrupt due to the carry costs and taxes on aquiring repossessed property. As this happened property ended up with a worth of pennies on the dollar. The public was ready for drastic measures due to the terrible economy.

Starting to sound familiar yet?

An interesting side note is that in 1944 the Bretton Woods agreement came in that fixed the major currencies of the world against each other, the US also allowed all foreign governments to redeem their dollars for gold at the rate of $35 per ounce. It wasn’t until 1964 and Lydon Johnson’s “Great Society” and the beginnings of the Vietnam conflict expenses that US citizens lost the backing of gold and silver for their currency allowing the Federal reserve to print dollars to pay bills at home and abroad with abandon. This also greatly increased the supply of US dollars held by foreign countries. We were fast becoming the consuming country we are today instead of the producing country we were. This devaluation of the dollar was ok with foreign governments as the US government kept the gold window open for them to redeem their dollars for gold at the rate of $35 an ounce for these dollars even after 1964, just not its own US citizens who were stuck with devalued fiat paper. 

In about 1963 President of France Charles de Gaulle shortly after restructuring the Franc due to inflation creating the “new” Franc worth 100 old Francs, started redeeming dollars for gold as the gold the dollar represented was worth more than the dollar itself (still held at $35 an ounce until 1971) due to over printing of fiat dollars by the Federal Reserve. This continued by France as well as other nations until 1971 when President Nixon faced with an ever dwindling gold reserve closed the gold window to foreign governments as well. In short time this forced all currencies into the fiat system. 

As much as I think we will end up having currencies backed by an asset again I worry about how that will manifest itself looking at history. Things will be very bad indeed before the public can believe, and the government can admit, what has actually been done in the last 100 years. The one thing I am sure of is that our wealth will be confiscated once again when we are given the new “New Deal”. 

My apologies to those I may have bored, but it seemed that some had interest and I have kept this in General Chat. I did not set out to make posts on economics 101, and do not hold myself out as any kind of authority. Please, those with a better understanding than I possess on the subject feel free to correct any errors. 

Oz

Ps; Nugget you are surely right in your thoughts on our forefathers that founded this nation and that wonderful document the Constitution. It was with much blood, sweat, and tears that we accomplished these things under the fundamental cry of abolishing “taxation without representation”. Look at what our elected representatives have done with it!

I LOVE MY COUNTRY, BUT I FEAR MY GOVERNMENT!


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Aug 10, 2008)

Oz. You're the man.

I too fear what the repercussions of these things will be. Especially that I have young children and one due any hour now... I don't want them to grow up in a depression and it's starting to look like it's right around the corner.


I don't care what the penalty for hording gold or silver becomes. They'll never find mine  and what they don't know, won't hurt them!


It's good that we type about these things as well Oz. Not many people know about this sort of thing and like I was saying. Once they find out they're shocked, then angry. I hate to say it, but anger is probably the only thing that will stop this runaway train of corruption.

Best regards.


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## Oz (Aug 10, 2008)

Hopefully it will not be scenes like this where the woman found it more economical to burn money rather than try to use it to buy fuel that would have provided less heat. On that note, it was due to excessive printing of Germanys Mark note to repay war debt that was the primary mover of this. Again, sound familiar?


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## Shecker (Aug 10, 2008)

I do not know how any f you feel about prophecy but there is one that is pertinent at this point. I cannot cite the source credit to a memory long too old) but it said that just before the crash and all of fiat currencies the monetary powers in the world will believe that they will have solved the problem of a falling dollar and brought prosperity back to America -- and while they congratulate themselves it will collapse around them. This collapse in fiat currencies is suppose to occur in a single day, starting in Japan and moving westward. Each country will watch the previous country's economy utterly unwind, and then they will watch their own do the same.
The only value then will be metals and they skyrocket. There will a global panic to get them. Those who have metals (even steel and copper)will emerge as the leaders. Just a thought.

Randy Hecker


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## Oz (Aug 10, 2008)

Well it is already looking to be an interesting week! As the markets are prepping to open they are listing ask prices as;

Au $856.10
Ag $15.26
US dollar index @ 76.14

PMs down and dollar up over the weekend. We will see when actual trading starts on Globex at 6, then Sydney and Hong Kong come on line with active buying and selling.


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## Noxx (Aug 10, 2008)

Gold price took 7$ since the opening a few hours ago.

So far so good !


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## Noxx (Aug 11, 2008)

Duh ! -20$/oz. now...


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## Oz (Aug 11, 2008)

At this moment it is -$30 compared to NY Friday’s close.

The dollar is still climbing compared to the euro, adding to that gold traded flat in the E.U. 

The thing to remember is discounting the wild swings in gold you can watch the long frame moving averages. It is not so much that the value of gold changes, its more a function of individual currencies have a change in value. Currently it is a “perceived” change in value for the dollar because of weakness in the E.U.

Rest assured that all currencies are going down in value as all fiat currencies always do. I know that doesn’t help when you see 2 less hundred $ bills in your hand when you sell an ounce of gold though. If you can afford to hold on to what you recover now until prices go up, and take advantage of lower raw material costs while gold is down. I believe it was GSP that said when prices move, so does the Gold. 

A good example to show the value of the dollar is that minimum wage when I was a kid was $3.35 an hour. Now consider if I had bought a house with a 30 year loan on it at that time. Right now minimum wage is about $7 an hour. So the lowest of low job one could have now pays twice as much for that same hour of labor. That means near the end of my 30 year loan I am paying my mortgage payment each month with half the amount of work hours each month. That does not count the fact that in my area that same house from 25 years ago is now worth 3 times as much measured in dollars. 

This is how much the dollar has lost in purchasing an hours worth of labor, as an hour is still an hour. The house value (an asset like gold) has gone up even more because the population continues to grow, and the greater population is competing for the same asset, land. Things like precious metals and land are not renewable resources, there is a finite quantity that can be mined or developed. 

Things will equalize but the governments of the world are pulling out all the stops trying to convince that all is well.

But cheer up, the Canadian dollar is currently up even compared to the dollar. 

Oz

Ps; chances are that when gold corrects it will do so just as rapidly. More bad economic news is on the horizon and we are entering the physical gold buying season instead of the normal paper shuffling of the market.


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## SapunovDmitry (Aug 11, 2008)

Maan.It is down to december's line. 826 per Oz now...
Will it ever start climbing :shock: ?
BTW Has anyone that book about Fed in PDF or something? Always wanted to know how does it work.


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## Rag and Bone (Aug 11, 2008)

The buying opportunities just keep getting better.  

I like the ETFs GLD and SLV. You can trade gold and silver and avoid the headache of keeping physical metal around. I think there is also a new ETF for Pt. I'd like to see gold drop to $600 and ride it back up to $1000, or more!


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