# SMB Hot Or Cold??



## Thomascorley (Jun 23, 2013)

Hi all,

I have had some success this weekend, I managed to successfully and safely dissolve the gold off some ceramic CPUs. I Also managed to neutralise the nitric acid and got my Ph level down to 1 as recommended by the good folks of "Gold Refining Forum" ... now I have a solution ready for SMB. Which temperature is best for dropping gold? I'm guessing that dissolving the SMB in hot water will be helpful.

------So should my gold solution be hot or cold?-------

Any constructive assistance would be much appreciated, I did consult the Hocke book prior to this post but unless I'm mistaken he talks mostly of using metallic precipitants.

Cheers for reading.


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## philddreamer (Jun 23, 2013)

> So should my gold solution be hot or cold?-------


Cold. You can add your SMB dry, it won't hurt nothing. 1 gram SMB per gram of gold expected from the solution.



> ...he talks mostly of using metallic precipitants.


...She talks mostly...

Don't forget to stannous test!
Take care!
Phil


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## butcher (Jun 23, 2013)

The sodium metabisulfite produces SO2 gas in solution, the SO2 gas is what reduces the gold ions in solution back to gold metal powders, a cold solution will hold gas longer than a hot solution, with the cool or cold solution the SO2 gas can stay in solution longer where it is needed to reduce the gold.

Gold precipitates better from a dilute solution, the water in the solution as well as the acid is important for the reaction of the SMB to be able to form the SO2 gas.

Read the title of the book again, it is not Hocke book, it is refining precious metals by C.M. Hoke.

C.M. Hoke's discusses several chemical reagents to precipitate gold, as well as cementing it out of solution with metals.


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## Thomascorley (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks for the input.



_"Read the title of the book again, it is not Hocke book, it is refining precious metals by C.M. Hoke._" 

It never ceases to amaze me how pedantic folks can be on this site. The Moto says "Refiners helping one another" Not sure how the needles corrections help. 

I was incorrect by saying " The Hocke Book" I just used that expression so that every one here would know what I was talking about. Any one here who enjoys learning new skills also appreciates that their is a lot of time and effort spent on researching. Especially when these skills are acquired in your own time. Internet forums are a valuable place to share knowledge and bounce idea's with people from all different walks of life. So why bother with the snobbery? Why not just post in a way that you would expect others to post to you?

Thanks for Help/explanations really is much appreciated.


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## jimdoc (Jun 23, 2013)

"Hoke" seems to be the most commonly misspelled four letter word around here.
If you can't get her name straight, then you really should find another hobby.

Jim


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## Palladium (Jun 23, 2013)

> pedantic



Pedantic can save a person or persons life, not to mention a lot of money. Pedantic's should apply to all circumstances surroundings one profession and not just for the important details, but for the minor one's as well. It's a discipline, not an imperfection ! I guess nuclear plants and space programs shouldn't worry about pedantic's either.


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## butcher (Jun 23, 2013)

Thomascorley,

You really misunderstood my post, it was not snobbery, and I always post in a way I expect others to post to me, If I call you by the wrong name I would not mind it one bit if you corrected me, and reminded me of your correct name, so that I could call my friend by his proper name, and on this forum I think we also should call C.M. Hoke by her proper name also (and at least know the name of her book).

My friend this was not snobbery, I do not do that, I was trying to be helpful.

And I will also not put up with snobbery on the forum, that kind of thing does not happen here on this forum, as it may on other places in the internet, but here also we will try to correct things we see wrong, not to be snobs, but to be helpful, after you are here for a while I believe you will see things differently.

I did not intend to rub your feathers the wrong way, and am sorry they got ruffled, but may be you will call Hoke's by her proper name now, and we can forget this matter and go on to help each other to learn more.

Take care my friend.


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## Palladium (Jun 23, 2013)

It's the pedantic's that will jump up and bite you in your arse ! :mrgreen:


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## butcher (Jun 23, 2013)

I had to look up the word pendantic, I have never heard the word or phrase before.

If I understand the definition of the word it is normally a negative term used to describe a person who is trying to show off his book learning, or is overly concerned with obscure facts, or trivia, and is showing off usually in a tiresome way, mostly quoting unrelated details or facts, being too concerned with literal accuracy and formality. 

Well that is some word there, but I do not believe I was being pendantic.

But here on the forum we are very concerned with details, and we are concerned with the obscure facts, and we are concerned with the formality, and even the literary details in how we write on the forum, as in this field the details are very important, the small details can mean the difference in success or failure, in recovery or refining it is normally the small details that will cause you the most trouble and grief, just try and precipitate your gold with sodium metabisulfate (instead of sodium metabisulfite), and see if the detail of one letter in the word make any difference, just skip one small part of a process which can also be the difference between having gold, or a just having one big mess, one small detail in chemistry wrong and you could have a very dangerous situation like an exploding glass vessel in your face, or a lungful of deadly gases knocking you to the floor, or cause you to be blinded for life.

I do not believe I am pedantic, but I do believe the details in chemistry are very important, and when we discuss these on the forum it is very important we pay attention to these small details, and on the forum doing our best to get our spelling correct, can be not only very important in communicating our ideas, but just like refining gold it can help to refine us to be able to communicate better, and many times the better communication can help to keep us out of problems and dangers in our refining or work with chemistry of these metals.

What if we did not care how we spelled, or made our posts on the forum, haphazardly writing the chemical names, or instructions, what if we just sloppily wrote a posts of a very dangerous recovery or refining, not stating all of the steps or left out important details, or safety precautions out in the stages, where one mistake in the process could make an explosive mix?

Would this be the place you would wish to learn from? Would you want to perform these dangerous steps of these chemical reactions, using these sloppy instructions of misspelled words and missing details as instructions, without understanding those small important details? 

Wouldn't you rather be able to spell Hokes, and learn to recover and refine pure gold?


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## Thomascorley (Jun 23, 2013)

OK........

I understand in this line of work their are some things that are absolutely critical, given the potential disaster that can result from the miss-use of words/ incorrect spelling. I always make quite considerable effort to make sure that posts are accurate. I wouldn't even dream of posting some thing related to chemical process with out being 110% sure that all information provided is sound. Its seems that as soon as some one slips up no matter how trivial, every one here just wants to jump on the band wagon and have a good stab at the new guy, 

"Jim doc" is a prime example. 

"Hoke" seems to be the most commonly misspelled four letter word around here.
If you can't get her name straight, then you really should find another hobby.

Spelling a persons name wrong means you should find another hobby? 

Would you (Jim doc) find that a particularly constructive comment? 

No doubt some one will be quoting my use of the word "trivial". 
Nuclear power plants, space programmes ect, of course being pedantic saves lives. Even NASA makes mistakes, I doubt any of them were related to an incorrect spelling of a author's name. 

Butcher,

I have to apologise for getting so easily ruffled! I liked your reply, it was fair and constructive. I now understand why you felt compelled to correct me.

I know their must be people reading my post thinking that "*He's just not getting it*". I work in an industry where you have to get it right or you lose obscene amounts of money or endanger peoples lives. I value the detail, it saves money/time/lives. I realise why the spelling mistake is causing offence, its the principle of making sure information is finite. Its just that I find it difficult to not be offended by people candidly passing judgements. 

Rant over, no doubt I have opened my self up to yet another onslaught of colourful comments. :lol: 

----On a good note----

I successfully precipitated gold for the first time this evening! So very happy about that.


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## Smack (Jun 23, 2013)

Think about how pedantic scientists have to be, like NASA. Ah it's just one number off, no big deal. Ah, it's just a small problem with an O-ring, no big deal right? Take Sodium Metabisulfate and Sodium Metabisulfite, one will drop your gold and one will not. Lucky for a lot of people that's the end of it because if Sodium Metabisulfate were to cause an explosive reaction there would be a lot of maimed people out there just over one little bitty letter. Everyone here is under the microscope, if you don't catch your mistake it's more than likely that someone else will. So if you can't handle being corrected in a public forum, I recommend that you send a private message to someone with your questions.


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## Thomascorley (Jun 23, 2013)

"_I had to look up the word pendantic, I have never heard the word or phrase before_".

I never used the word "pendantic" I said "pedantic" 

Padantic :-
Synonyms: abstruse, academic, arid, didactic, doctrinaire, donnish, dry, dull, egotistic, erudite, formal, fussy, hairsplitting, learned, nit-picking, ostentatious, overnice, particular, pedagogic, pompous, priggish, punctilious, scholastic, schoolish, sententious, stilted 

I underlined the actual Synonyms I was originally referring too.
I never new one word had so many meanings


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## Thomascorley (Jun 23, 2013)

Smack said:


> Think about how pedantic scientists have to be, like NASA. Ah it's just one number off, no big deal. Ah, it's just a small problem with an O-ring, no big deal right? Take Sodium Metabisulfate and Sodium Metabisulfite, one will drop your gold and one will not. Lucky for a lot of people that's the end of it because if Sodium Metabisulfate were to cause an explosive reaction there would be a lot of maimed people out there just over one little bitty letter. Everyone here is under the microscope, if you don't catch your mistake it's more than likely that someone else will. So if you can't handle being corrected in a public forum, I recommend that you send a private message to someone with your questions.



I think you might have failed to grasp the nature of my last post. I clearly offered sympathy with those trying to explain the importance of why being pedantic is important.


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## Smack (Jun 23, 2013)

You posted while I was typing so just pretend I posted first.


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## Palladium (Jun 23, 2013)

Yeah you might want to pick another person to vent your frustrations toward. You won't like me.


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## Geo (Jun 23, 2013)

misspelling by one letter can make the difference between a pleasant first experience when refining or a white knuckle, tension filled roller coaster ride that will suck the life out of you (figuratively speaking). take the compound most of us precipitate gold with. one letter off and sodium metabisulfite turns into sodium metabisulfate. two similar yet different things that if, misspelled can ruin days, weeks, months of work of work and make a terrible mess.


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## Thomascorley (Jun 23, 2013)

"Yeah you might want to pick another person to vent your frustrations toward. You won't like me."

So you jump on the wagon yet cant take the criticism?


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## Thomascorley (Jun 23, 2013)

"misspelling by one letter can make the difference between a pleasant first experience when refining or a white knuckle, tension filled roller coaster ride that will suck the life out of you (figuratively speaking). take the compound most of us precipitate gold with. one letter off and sodium metabisulfite turns into sodium metabisulfate. two similar yet different things that if, misspelled can ruin days, weeks, months of work of work and make a terrible mess."

I think the importance of spelling has been well covered by now. Have read any of the other posts? Thanks for the input.


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## Palladium (Jun 23, 2013)

I think your missing the whole point here. This conservation started because of your attitude. The same attitude your seem hell bond on demonstrating time and time again through out this thread. Don't be the instigator and then cry the victim part. You want to keep this argumentative stance going?


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## Thomascorley (Jun 23, 2013)

Palladium said:


> I think your missing the whole point here. This conservation started because of your attitude. The same attitude your seem hell bond on demonstrating time and time again through out this thread. Don't be the instigator and then cry the victim part. You want to keep this argumentative stance going?



I have to confess looking back at the posts it wasn't you who said:

"Hoke" seems to be the most commonly misspelled four letter word around here.
If you can't get her name straight, then you really should find another hobby.

Jim

Please accept my apologies. In answer to your question:

This conversation started because I spelt "Hoke" wrong. The follow up to that were some comments that I felt were unnecessary. I have gone great lengths tonight to explain why I was offended. I believe I have done so in a fair and just manner. It would appear that I am not the only making spelling mistakes, your last post you spelt "bound" wrong but do you see me lecturing you on the importance of spelling? What makes you think I am crying victim? I am doing my best explain my thoughts and opinions.

" Yeah you might want to pick another person to vent your frustrations toward. You won't like me."
Is that a threat? 


If any one is thinking of suggesting that I have an attitude problem then please take time to read all of the post's. The problem with reading text that somebody else wrote is that it is very easy to assume that the person who wrote is shouting at at the monitor. I can assure you I am not shouting. The idea that I am hell bent on demonstrating a bad attitude is false, If some one is going to be good enough to post some thing in direct relation to a conversation. I will do my best to reply in a fair manner. Palladium why are asking me if I want to keep this argumentative stance going? had you read my earlier post properly you would have noticed that I incorrectly quoted you, of which have just apologised. you would have also noticed that I whole heartedly sympathise/ agree with the importance of correctional input.


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## Palladium (Jun 23, 2013)

Well enough then.


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## jimdoc (Jun 23, 2013)

Thomascorley said:


> "Jim doc" is a prime example.
> 
> "Hoke" seems to be the most commonly misspelled four letter word around here.
> If you can't get her name straight, then you really should find another hobby.
> ...




Yes, yes I would.

Jim


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## necromancer (Jun 23, 2013)

Thomascorley said:


> I never new one word had so many meanings



thats english, and nothing more. flip through the dictionary & see how many words have only a single meaning (not many)


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## Geo (Jun 23, 2013)

its not members nit-picking, its the rules. 



Noxx said:


> Welcome to this forum ! I hope you will pass good time over here.
> Please follow those rules:
> -Do not use Racism/Sexism/Bad Taste/Violent language.
> -Do not spam.
> ...



when a new member is told to correct spelling, their attitude quickly shows if they are willing to take the guidance offered or will lose the chance to learn refining from the best resource on the net.


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## Bigwood247 (Jun 23, 2013)

jimdoc said:


> "Hoke" seems to be the most commonly misspelled four letter word around here.
> If you can't get her name straight, then you really should find another hobby.
> 
> Jim


It could of just been a typo ??


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## jimdoc (Jun 23, 2013)

Bigwood247 said:


> jimdoc said:
> 
> 
> > "Hoke" seems to be the most commonly misspelled four letter word around here.
> ...



Then that brings up checking on what you are posting before, or right after you post. 

Jim


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## kkmonte (Jun 23, 2013)

I feel I have to comment on this. While I agree with importance of accuracy in a "profession" or "hobby" like this that we all love (we wouldn't be here if we didn't), I do agree that people around here do love jumping on the "grammar and spelling police" bandwagon way too much. If you are posting chemical formulas or asking for chemical names, then by all means, jump all over the person that makes a mistake. 

When the occasional person comes in here and says "hey guyz, ples expln me how 2 make lots of $$$ from refining gold, lst all steps req! Thx" Again, jump all over him.

But when someone makes either a spelling mistake (or a typo) on a harmless word like Hoke, I don't see the need to jump and tell him to find another hobby.


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## Geo (Jun 23, 2013)

correct spelling and the best grammar you can use has been stressed on the forum since i joined. there are other reasons than safety but safety is the first and foremost reason. this has been discussed before. i dont mean to ruffle feathers but the rules apply to everyone, even new members, who apparently did not read the rules. since most people joins without looking at the forum rules need to be made aware of them as soon as possible.


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## Thomascorley (Jun 24, 2013)

Geo said:


> its not members nit-picking, its the rules.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Rule No.4* Try to correct spelling mistakes, I did Try very hard to make sure all grammar and spelling were accurate.
*Rule No.7* Has a spelling mistake, sympathetic, not sympathic. 

I'm glad that I'm not the only one here who thinks whilst spelling is essential, their are some situations where a little grace/discretion is used.


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## Palladium (Jun 24, 2013)

Well apparently everyone seems to have missed the point again!!! This thread was rocking right along and a moderator ( Butcher ) said something the offending party didn't like. Then the offended party took a stance of attitude, which apparently still seems to be happening even as we speak. It's not about people jumping on people or anything else. It's about this persons attitude and how they have responded. I approached it because i KNEW how this was going to turn out. Was i picking at you? You bet i was! Did you prove me right? You bet you did. Please remember it was a moderator who corrected you. This is not a democracy on this board. If you don't like board policy or being corrected then you are more that welcome to find the door. I will not waste my time trying to teach other only to be disrupted by people who can't seem to conform. Do we really need to keep doing this? Are you going to be that hard headed and argumentative that you can't just say i see and let it go?


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## Geo (Jun 24, 2013)

Thomascorley, believe me, this is nothing personal. i am not bashing but just pointing out the rules. i would do the same for any new member. you are not being singled out, i dont know you that well. no one is here to make you look small but to try and guide new members safely through some very dangerous processes. just being here is a privilege and should be considered as such. no one here is attacking you but rather extending a helping hand. remember, you came to us to learn.


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## bswartzwelder (Jun 24, 2013)

I have certainly made my fair share of mistakes. I even found where Butcher had made a mistake by reading a wrong number from a chart. Once he saw where the error was, he took a huge amount of time correcting calculations based on that particular data. He wasn't angry or resentful, but thankful for the constructive criticism. He acknowledged his error and gave credit for the correction where credit was due, even though I didn't consider it necessary. He has proven himself over and over again where forum members needed help. Almost every other forum member has been very helpful and free with their knowledge and advice. This is a tribute to ALL the forum members who have reached out to help one another. Their time is just as valuable to them as mine is to me and while there is no monetary charge, it's actually far from being free. Heartfelt THANK YOU (yes, I'm yelling it at the monitor, and the dogs don't know what wrong), but it's worth shouting.

Now, lets get back to some R&R (OOPS, that's Recovery and Refining).


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## kkmonte (Jun 24, 2013)

Palladium said:


> Well apparently everyone seems to have missed the point again!!! This thread was rocking right along and a moderator ( Butcher ) said something the offending party didn't like. Then the offended party took a stance of attitude, which apparently still seems to be happening even as we speak. It's not about people jumping on people or anything else. It's about this persons attitude and how they have responded. I approached it because i KNEW how this was going to turn out. Was i picking at you? You bet i was! Did you prove me right? You bet you did. Please remember it was a moderator who corrected you. This is not a democracy on this board. If you don't like board policy or being corrected then you are more that welcome to find the door. I will not waste my time trying to teach other only to be disrupted by people who can't seem to conform. Do we really need to keep doing this? Are you going to be that hard headed and argumentative that you can't just say i see and let it go?



Palladium, I don't see where the OP took a stance of attitude. He simply responded to butcher's comment (he even started off his post with a Thanks). He also ended his post with this: "Thanks for Help/explanations really is much appreciated." I guess the "attitude" you are referring to was his comment on people being "pedantic" on the forum (which is spot on by the way).


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## glondor (Jun 24, 2013)

If there is any place to be pedantic It is in the teaching of science. Since this forum is dedicated to the teaching of the science of refining, it is more than appropriate. To that end, Qualify your questions, leave out abbreviations, do not use text speak, check your spelling and take any response from experienced members as a gift of their time and effort, directly aimed at YOUR specific need, given freely. 

Think of this more as a classroom than some sort of internet chat room, and behave like someone with a lot more knowledge than you is trying to help you reach YOUR goals. It is never a good sign when someone starts a relationship by trying to correct the teacher. 

I guess the first lesson here is it is proper to be pedantic in teaching about things that can maim or kill you. Sometimes you just have to conform to the rules.


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## kkmonte (Jun 24, 2013)

glondor said:


> If there is any place to be pedantic It is in the teaching of science. Since this forum is dedicated to the teaching of the science of refining, it is more than appropriate. To that end, Qualify your questions, leave out abbreviations, do not use text speak, check your spelling and take any response from experienced members as a gift of their time and effort, directly aimed at YOUR specific need, given freely.
> 
> Think of this more as a classroom than some sort of internet chat room, and behave like someone with a lot more knowledge than you is trying to help you reach YOUR goals. It is never a good sign when someone starts a relationship by trying to correct the teacher.
> 
> I guess the first lesson here is it is proper to be pedantic in teaching about things that can maim or kill you. Sometimes you just have to conform to the rules.



Did you even read my previous post? Sure in the teachings of Science, be pedantic. However when someone misspells (or even makes a typo) a proper Name, is that reason to jump all over him and tell him to find another hobby?

Here Glondor and JimDoc, this is for you guys!


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## glondor (Jun 24, 2013)

No I did not read your previous post. I read the OP. I was replying to the OP. I don't know who you are or what you said.


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## butcher (Jun 24, 2013)

What a commotion this has caused, I had no idea that suggesting re reading the title of a book would cause these reactions.

Hokes book is so important to this forum and such a good resource to learn from, out of respect we should at least get here name right if nothing else out of respect for this lady who has provided such valuable information to all of us.

Reactions to this suggestion has caused many to jump on this band wagon and express their views on the subject, many of these views have very valid points, some not so valid, I do not see this as much as being spelling police as had been suggested, but trying to keep our forum as accurate and as readable as possible, many of us understand how simple spelling and grammar can make reading this forum not just easier, but also possible for those who have to rely on translators to read the forum, we also understand how safety and understanding procedure or even the chemicals used can be much easier when we all do our best in writing what we do. 

We also want to keep and maintain the forum the best we can, we all are writing this forum, we all make it what it is.

We can have a sloppy forum, which no one can read, where we do not care what we say or how we say it, spitting out inaccuracy, and arguments with one another, or we can all hold up the higher standards for ourselves and for our forum, helping to improve our forum and ourselves.

The rules of the forum set the standards that Noxx the forums founder and members decided on to keep the forum the best they could, to run smoothly and to be a great place to learn, they did not make unfair or unnecessary rules, which would be hard to follow, they set these rules with an understanding for every member, and to set the stage for this forum to survive and prosper and not be ruined into a mad house.

This forum is made by all of us members who are a part of it, and as members in a way we all are the policemen of our forum.

(kkmonte, you have a nice badge there but it is not an official forum badge, so you should not wear it here on the forum, but you can wear it while you police yourself if you wish).

But as policemen of the forum our job mostly is to police ourselves and do the best we can to make this forum the best we can, to help others where we can.

Sometimes this help comes from hearing things we may not wish to hear at the time.
Sometimes we need our friends to tell us such things, other wise how would we learn and strive to do better if our friends were not true friends and tell us when we were doing things wrong and we could not see it.

I did not see much wrong with any of the comments of members in this topic I can agree with the issues on both sides of this fence, but I also believe reactions on both sides of the fence just brought up more reactions, like those balls hanging on strings banging each other back and forth, I think we can all agree we want our forum to be as best as possible for all of us to learn, and to see our forum survive as the best place possible to learn recovery and refining from, many comments here on both side's were trying to point toward that goal, but after a while the banging of these balls reacting with one another could get out of control, or almost annoying.

I seen mostly a reaction to a simple suggestion, and then more reaction because of that reaction, some good can come from this discussion, but it can also easily get out of hand, we can all agree we need to write the best we can, we can all agree we want to learn the best we can and to do this we need to be able to read and understand what others wrote. 

Since joining this forum I have tried hard to improve my writing skills, not that they are that good now, but when I first made a post here I was told it was unreadable.

I knew what I was trying to say, and I must admit those comments hurt, as I had been reading the forum for quite some time before I decided to post, and those comments cut like a knife, I could not see what was wrong with my writing, I could read it, it also took me some time to understand what others were saying about my writing, and took me time to learn to do better, and since that first post I have tried hard to do the best I can to improve my writing skills, I still have room for much improvement, but I have done the best I can and am glad I did, now I know these forum police were just trying to help me (and save their poor old eyes), funny thing is now when I see a post written like my first one I just skip over it and do not try to read it most of the time, now I can see what these forum police were talking about, when they said my writing was unreadable.

Now my job as forum police is to police myself, and try to help others where I can, help all of my friends where I can even our new friends, and to try and help all of us make this the best forum we can.

Sorry I spelled pedantic wrong; I will try and pay more attention next time.

Now what was this topic about?

SMB hot or cold, any one wants to help answer this question?


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## glondor (Jun 24, 2013)

Cold. The reaction with smb is exothermic, (it generates heat) The sulfur dioxide gas created by the reaction will stay with cold water longer. This allows for better reactions.


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## kane333 (Jun 24, 2013)

That was a good save.

Everyone here is guilty of spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc. errors. I, myself, am a perfectionist when it comes to spelling, capitalization, punctuation, grammar, etc. One thing I notice is, even something the veterans are guilty of, is the use of the "sub" command here in chat. We could go so far and correct each other all day long that KNO3 or H2SO4 are mislabeled because it should really be KNO3 and H2SO4. You decide. No disrespect meant, but the bandwagon should be gone by now. :arrow:


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## kkmonte (Jun 24, 2013)

butcher said:


> (kkmonte, you have a nice badge there but it is not an official forum badge, so you should not wear it here on the forum, but you can wear it while you police yourself if you wish).



It wasn't for me, I was giving it to the other Spelling and Grammar police around here Butcher. I still believe that people are human and whether by accident, or lack of the knowledge of the correct spelling, some people need to relax and not jump all over a person for misspelling Hoke (or something similar).


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## jimdoc (Jun 24, 2013)

kkmonte said:


> butcher said:
> 
> 
> > (kkmonte, you have a nice badge there but it is not an official forum badge, so you should not wear it here on the forum, but you can wear it while you police yourself if you wish).
> ...



Drop it already, nobody else cares about your feelings.
Carry on with refining.

Jim


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## Geo (Jun 24, 2013)

add SMB cool if not chilled. it can be dry or in solution. i use dry SMB to gauge the presence of free nitric. it takes some time and practice but it is effective. after the addition and the following stannous chloride test, with a negative test for gold, slowly warm the now spent solution with precipitating gold to drive out the SO2 and get a quicker drop.


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## kkmonte (Jun 24, 2013)

jimdoc said:


> kkmonte said:
> 
> 
> > butcher said:
> ...



That's not being too sympathetic JimDoc! You're not following the forum rules here!


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## jimdoc (Jun 24, 2013)

kkmonte said:


> That's not being too sympathetic JimDoc! You're not following the forum rules here!



I wasn't trying for sympathetic, I was hinting that you should shut up.
I am going to shut up, I suggest you do the same. 
I am sure others are not amused by this thread, and I will not be adding to it any more.

Jim


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## Harold_V (Jun 25, 2013)

Thomascorley said:


> _"Read the title of the book again, it is not Hocke book, it is refining precious metals by C.M. Hoke._"
> 
> It never ceases to amaze me how pedantic folks can be on this site. The Moto says "Refiners helping one another" Not sure how the needles corrections help.



I'm late to this party, as I've not been on the forum much of late, but one thing you must understand, assuming you hope to be on the right side of those of us who operate this board, is that we DEMAND that readers use proper terminology, and avoid text type messaging. You are a guest in the home of the owner, and we have been assigned to oversee the operation such that misinformation (of any kind) is not propagated. There's a good reason for that, and I'm not too keen on anyone who wishes to make an issue of our demands. 

When someone corrects you, assume the attitude that you are being corrected in your best interest. If, by chance, the person doing the correction happens to be a moderator, you risk getting on the wrong side if you respond in any way but one of appreciation---in particular, my wrong side. I take a very dim view of that type of activity, in particular if you choose to get involved with Butcher, who I consider one of the finest people to have become a member of our "family". You will, at all times, speak to him with respect. He has earned it, and I will settle for nothing less. 

So then, now that I have established the fact that you will behave, and not make waves because someone has corrected you, understand that you have just waved the red flag in front of the bull. Any further disruptions at your hand will most likely have you dealing with me, and that's not going to be pleasant, of that I assure you. 

You have visited the only site on the internet in which you can learn proper procedures. For that you must (and will) pay a price. That price is that you will adhere to our guidelines and mandates. You will do that without acrimony, or you won't be here at all. 

Do we understand one another?

Harold

Edit:

I am quoting from your previous post:

"Nuclear power plants, space programmes *ect*, of course being pedantic saves lives. Even NASA makes mistakes, I doubt any of them were related to an incorrect spelling of a author's name."

There is NO _ect_. That isn't a word, nor is it a contraction of words. What it is is a misspelling of the contraction of two words et cetera. How in hell did it become ect?

Do you get the point? You come here with your errors and then take offense when someone tries (mannerly) to correct you? 

If you choose to respond to this post, choose your words carefully. 

Harold


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## Thomascorley (Jun 25, 2013)

Harold_V said:


> Thomascorley said:
> 
> 
> > _"Read the title of the book again, it is not Hocke book, it is refining precious metals by C.M. Hoke._"
> ...




Hi Harold,

Please do not take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be patronising in any way. I have chosen to para-phrase (if that is the right description) only to deliver my concluding thoughts and opinions precisely.

I was over defensive of Butchers comments. 

I tried to make peace.

The forum rule book has spelling mistakes.

I understand that when posting, every word will be understandably under the microscope.

Where I was accused of prolonging this debate, I say I was just responding to replies. 

Where I put "ect" the correct abbreviation should have been "etc" commonly used in the UK. Apologies, fortunately you were still able to understand what I had wrote.

I'm more than happy to follow forum rules.

"mannerly" corrections are fine, not all of the responses to my post were exactly mannerly, most un-mannerly posts were sent after I apologised to butcher, (apology also included complete sympathy to original post) 

I have no doubt that just even replying to this post will be seen as an attempt to ruffle feather's, it wasn't. I just a wanted chance to explain.

I wanted time to think about what has been said so I could give a level headed response. 

Again I would very sincerely like to apologize to butcher, His response to my complaining rant was very polite and mannerly, I did my best to respond to his post in kind having realising my mistake. 

It is very difficult to get a message across in my own words when every one else is interpreting them in their own.

I hope this has been interpreted the way I intended. I just want to learn,share and enjoy posting with other members.

Sorry to those I offended. Its a shame because I would like nothing better to meet face to face with whom ever has a grievance with me so that I can put thing right. I haven't the attitude problem I am perceived to have. I take pride in treating other's with respect.


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## Palladium (Jun 25, 2013)

Very well said sir !


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## Thomascorley (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks Palladium


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## glondor (Jun 25, 2013)

Very well said indeed Thomas. Welcome to the forum. Talk about trial by fire eh, as long as we don't feed the trolls, this is generally a happy and well mannered place.
You will find there is no place on the web, and perhaps even in brick and mortar institutions that have the wealth of knowledge that can be found in these pages. You can literally read for years. Learn the search function, read, cross reference, review Hoke's excellent book. Share your experiances and ask your questions, show your effort and show your work. Most of all..... Enjoy. Cheers


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## butcher (Jun 26, 2013)

Thomascorley, I think you will make a fine member of our group, really this is a good group to know and learn with, little bit nit-picky at times about small details :lol:


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## Thomascorley (Jun 26, 2013)

Thanks Glondor, 
You are right their is wealth of knowledge on this site. Glad to be here 

Butcher
Thanks again, You must be a pretty decent person to have shown so much grace in my ignorance. Look forward to be talking about Refining with you. Its the little things that matter most.


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## bswartzwelder (Jun 27, 2013)

Thomascorley,

If I haven't already said it, Welcome to the forum. You will see in the future as new members join, some want to be spoon fed answers to their questions without doing any of the work. Others feel it is a privilege they have been granted and again, want the fruits of other peoples knowledge. Those people either don't last too long or they quickly learn what will and what will not happen on the forum. Many newcomers have very little to no actual knowledge of chemistry. They get chemicals and think they're going to invent a new process to save the world from losing gold to the scrapyard. What they will end up doing is hurting (or worse yet, killing) themselves, their friends, relatives, neighbors, and pets. Any experiemnt they try has most likely already been tried.

I have been amazed at how some things change, or don't change. Take for example precipitating gold from your solution. The most common way is to drop it with sodium metabisulfite. SMB is relatively inexpensive, easy to obtain, and it works well. C. M. Hoke, in her book, preferred copperas (which doesn't even contain copper). Oxalic acid can also be used to precipitate gold and is very selective. I would have never know much of this without the forum.

Again, welcome and be sure to share your experiences with us.

Bert


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## Thomascorley (Jun 28, 2013)

Thanks for input Bert,

I understand totally where you are coming from. I'm no expert by any means, but reading through some of the post's on this site even I noticed, the person asking the question doesn't appear to have done any research at all. Just looking for that quick fix! 

Cheers


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