# BlueOak Raises $35 Million For Its Ewaste Refinery



## Evan2468WDWA (Jun 28, 2014)

What do you think about this company? 

http://www.wired.com/2014/06/blueoak/


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## 4metals (Jun 28, 2014)

It all sounds good when written up by some-one who writes articles for publication but knows little about the process. Don't you think for a single minute the established refineries, already processing with the most cost effective methods, would take in the smaller collectors lots if it was cost effective. 

The problem is you cannot process a small lot of e-waste and quantify the value to pay the customer easily. It is often worth less than the cost to process it in small individual lots. So how will they pay the customers? Maybe they have some sound ideas about how to do this and I would love to see their plan discussed, but as far as I know, from seeing a lot of this stuff, the ability to quantify the value of a small lot is exactly why the small guys burn crush and sift to make powder which is assayable and metallic fractions which can be melted with copper. 

While it is true there is more gold and other PM's per ton than natural ores, the natural ores are relatively consistent when coming from a source and once the protocol is established the extraction process can proceed. With e-waste you have a wide range of possibilities and mixtures of metals put together with no consideration of future recovery. There is no one method that can work for all of it. 

I wish them luck, but I think they will stall because the small guys scrap cannot be done in small lots at a profit.


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## Evan2468WDWA (Jun 29, 2014)

Thanks for the reply 4metals. I don't really think much of there business plan as well. I don't really know that much about the refining industry, but from what I've read I'm not sure that the niche they are trying to fill is really that empty. If you got the the scrap buyers & sellers section of Scrap Metal Forum you can find many different people willing to buy e-waste in small quantities. I assume that when they build up enough of it they send it off to a large refiner in another country. So really it seems like they will still have to compete against large refiners even if they do take small lots. 

I think they would be better off focusing on buying low value per weight e-waste locally. If they buy stuff which isn't very economic to ship to a large refiner then they can avoid having to compete much. Perhaps a good item for them would be hard drive platters. They have valuable materials in them, but not much per weight so they aren't very economical to ship long distances which seems like a good mix for them although I don't know if there is enough valuable material to be worth it even in large amounts. From what I've read on the forum many of the people here don't think they are worth it. 

Then again the company found people willing to give them 35 million dollars. I can't imagine myself every convincing someone to invest 35 million dollar in and idea I've had so maybe they know something I don't.


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## justinhcase (Jun 29, 2014)

Do you chaps get any subsidies over there? over here if you start up a green company of any sort you can apply to a hundred different departments and public body's for a cash hand out.
also do not forget unlike most of use there are some people who are looking for a business that will loos money.
Particularly the kind of people who have $35mill to put into a slim hope who will actually be better off after they have been assessed by the old tax man if they show a healthy loss.
I think there was a case over your side of the pond this month about some celebrity who were caught setting up a fake agency for exactly that reason


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## Evan2468WDWA (Jun 29, 2014)

It might have something to do with subsidies (I believe we do have subsidies in the US) or tax shelters. I don't know that much about either of those things. I found something with a bit of searching that might be relevant. 



> Under pressure from environmental groups, such as the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition, some computer-makers have established rules to ensure that their products are recycled in a responsible way. Hewlett-Packard has been a leader in this and even operates its own recycling factories in California and Tennessee. Dell, which was once criticised for using prison labour to recycle its machines, now takes back its old computers for no charge. And last month Steve Jobs detailed Apple's plans to eliminate the use of toxic substances in its products.


http://www.economist.com/node/9249262

Maybe they pressured the people in Silicon Valley into giving them money, but that doesn't explain the $35 million from the Arkansas Teachers’ Retirement Fund and the Arkansas Development Finance Authority. I hope they have a sound business plan because for the sake of Arkansas's Teachers. 

One more interesting thing from the article I quoted. 


> TiTech's systems—more than 1,000 of which are now installed worldwide—rely on spectroscopy to identify different materials. Paper and plastic items are spread out on a conveyor belt in a single layer. When illuminated by a halogen lamp, each type of material reflects a unique combination of wavelengths in the infra-red spectrum that can be identified, much like a fingerprint. By analysing data from a sensor that detects light in both the visible and the near-infra-red spectrum, a computer is able to determine the colour, type, shape and position of each item. Air jets are then activated to push particular items from one conveyor belt to another, or into a bin. Numerous types of paper, plastic or combinations thereof can thus be sorted with up to 98% accuracy.


Gives me a bit of renewed hope for DIY spectroscopy.


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## 4metals (Jun 30, 2014)

The TiTech system of separation is an effective method for pulling the values from the mass so to speak. The pre granulation to a uniform size is a pre-requisite and doing this on a small scale is the issue I see as a problem for their business model. 

Do they expect to get in a 50 pound lot, clear the system, empty the bins and restart in order to quantify a small lot? Then individually melt and assay the payable fraction? 

These granulator setups are fed with a pretty constant flow of fork lift sized loads and disperse their sized particles across very large lengths of conveyors, do they think they will be saying "Hold up now, clean out the machine, this shopping bag of chips is next?" I don't think so!

That is, in my humble opinion, the fly in the ointment!


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## Irons (Jun 30, 2014)

It might work if they payout 10% of the actual values. E-scrap is essentially Copper ore with trace precious metals.

on edit: There is a setup charge for each lot of incoming scrap. Having been burned by that little scam in the past, it jumped-out at me.


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## 4metals (Jun 30, 2014)

I did not see their rates anywhere, but if they keep 90% and cover the lot fees with a setup charge they must be awesome sales people. They sold 35 million worth of investment. 

Who were those investors, I have a bridge I want to sell!


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## Evan2468WDWA (Jun 30, 2014)

Well one thing I can say for sure is that I wouldn't invest money in the company. Not that I actually have any money so it's kind of a moot point.


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## necromancer (Jun 30, 2014)

4metals said:


> I did not see their rates anywhere, but if they keep 90% and cover the lot fees with a setup charge they must be awesome sales people. They sold 35 million worth of investment.
> 
> Who were those investors, I have a bridge I want to sell!




the sales crew got there pitch from reading this site 8)


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## Dadiola (Jul 1, 2014)

justinhcase said:


> Do you chaps get any subsidies over there? over here if you start up a green company of any sort you can apply to a hundred different departments and public body's for a cash hand out.
> also do not forget unlike most of use there are some people who are looking for a business that will loos money.
> Particularly the kind of people who have $35mill to put into a slim hope who will actually be better off after they have been assessed by the old tax man if they show a healthy loss.
> I think there was a case over your side of the pond this month about some celebrity who were caught setting up a fake agency for exactly that reason



Most states have economic development authorities that have cash to lend (or provide grants) to woo companies to their respective states. I am a lender for the WV Economic Development Authority so I am always competing with my neighboring states to get companies to locate here. It may well be that they were provided a low interest loan or grant for a portion of their project.


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## 5ixb (Jul 1, 2014)

"did not see their rates anywhere, but if they keep 90% and cover the lot fees with a setup charge they must be awesome sales people. They sold 35 million worth of investment. 

Who were those investors, I have a bridge I want to sell!"



Al Gore


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## necromancer (Jul 1, 2014)

5ixb said:


> Al Gore




not the same guy who invented the internet ?? :lol:


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