# Melting Techniques



## Dude4ever (May 6, 2012)

Hi, I would like to know if there is any other way to melt refined gold powder than in a borax glazed dish.
I've read about quartz dishes. But is there some another material that one can use that do not require use of borax?
Is borax actually required for getting the button to shine?

Metal dishes of all kinds would just contaminate the gold, right? What about the kind of ceramic glass used in stoves?


Wikipedia said:


> Glass-ceramic from the LAS-System is a mechanically strong material and can sustain repeated and quick temperature changes up to 800–1000 °C


But as pure gold needs 1064°C to melt, this would need to be researched further. I know this material is mainly made from lithium-, silicon-, and aluminum-oxides, as written on wikipedia. Could this also contaminate the gold? But our regular melting dishes would also contaminate a bit right?

Have someone done some research on this? There is three "systems" for this glass-ceramics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-ceramic

Thought maybe this could start a discussion


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## maynman1751 (May 6, 2012)

I can truly understand your curiosity, but I wouldn't "try to re-invent the wheel". Definitely no metal dish! LazerSteve sells dishes for 3.75, why mess around with unknowns? Maybe someone else has different input.


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## Dude4ever (May 6, 2012)

I won't try that, just see if this could be done and as an improvement or more like an alternative, not an invention  If it is less contaminating and easy/inexpensive, why not. And if you read Wikipedia, it says that this material does not have any pores, that would be beneficial right?
I have bought the melting dish from Steve. I just do not have any borax yet  I am really going to do this as everyone else does, I have ordered borax, but that does not appear on my doorstep before in a couple of days. And I just happen to have a stove with such glass in my garage. It is just me coming up with a suggestion on a sunday evening, with nothing to melt my newly refined and washed gold powder in  I obviously do not want to screw up my powder, so then I ask  Thanks


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## philddreamer (May 6, 2012)

> I can truly understand your curiosity, but I wouldn't "try to re-invent the wheel". Definitely no metal dish!



So true!
If I go thru the trouble of refining my gold, I will definetly use an appoved & simple method for melting it. Maybe you have the luxury of playing with your gold, so in that case,go ahead and experiment. But the simple method of melting gold or silver in a melting dish with a light coating of borax is the way to go. Borax won't contaminate your PM's. (Some members here don't use borax). There're other approved methods, but for the home refiner, the dish is the way to go. IMHO.

Kindly,
Phil

P.S.
You can get borax at the super market... "20 Mule Team" brand.


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## Dude4ever (May 6, 2012)

philddreamer said:


> > I can truly understand your curiosity, but I wouldn't "try to re-invent the wheel". Definitely no metal dish!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I show to my last post above  thanks


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## philddreamer (May 6, 2012)

I once melted a bit of gold I had in a 2 x 4. I had no dish, and was in a hurry.
You just might end up with a few extra "BB's". :lol:


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## Dude4ever (May 6, 2012)

philddreamer said:


> I once melted a bit of gold I had in a 2 x 4.



2x4? like in wood? :lol:


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## jmdlcar (May 6, 2012)

What about this. http://www.ebay.com/itm/300681092186#ht_11698wt_991


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## philddreamer (May 6, 2012)

> 2x4? like in wood?



YUUUUP! :lol: 

I drilled a 3/4 in hole, about 1/2 inch deep, placed my gold and applied the torch! :mrgreen:

P.S. 
Mind you, I don't recommended it, because you'll end up with BB's, as the gold can't roll on a smooth surface and "meet" in the center.


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## Dude4ever (May 6, 2012)

Haha, nice. I thought about wood in a brief moment, but couldn't imagine it would be very pretty 
When we already is into this, what about charcoal and drilling/digging a "dish" into that? :lol: That is pretty easy to work with and would have a smoother surface, but the dust would be a problem 
And it probably would just be a one-time melt


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## philddreamer (May 6, 2012)

Dude, I think that will work better than the 2 x 4, until you get your borax! 8) 

Phil


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## Palladium (May 6, 2012)

I used a 2x4 for some silver one time. You can't preheat it like you can other molds. To say the least i had a mini guyser like your talking about Phil. Made some fine shot though. :lol:


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## Smack (May 6, 2012)

Wood is fine but you should carbonize it first.


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## MysticColby (May 7, 2012)

jmdlcar said:


> What about this. http://www.ebay.com/itm/300681092186#ht_11698wt_991



in the picture, he's probably melting lead. much lower temperature. at temperatures that glow, graphite will start to burn. can't use it for very long, but it will work for one or two small melts.

wood also works. same problem as graphite, though: it burns away, but it takes time. only for small melts.
I tried using wood with a partial hole drilled in it as a mold, blackened with torch, poured in melted silver, and it sputtered. not a very pretty casting. My guess is that it burned the wood, and the gasses released from that could only travel through the metal, so they did. If the metal is smaller (maybe 1 oz?), the gas can go around or not build up.

the reason for borax is that it provides a smooth surface with which the molten metal will glide on so it won't stick to the dish. it really does make it easy to use.


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## Harold_V (May 8, 2012)

Dude4ever said:


> Hi, I would like to know if there is any other way to melt refined gold powder than in a borax glazed dish.
> I've read about quartz dishes. But is there some another material that one can use that do not require use of borax?


It is highly unlikely that you will produce gold that won't benefit from the use of borax. It serves more than one purpose, both of which are very important to the end result. 



> Is borax actually required for getting the button to shine?


Even the greatest quality of gold has some trace of impurity. Some don't really show, but base metals oxidize, so without the presence of borax, such oxides are not removed from the surface. You can see evidence of that by melting less than great quality gold under a full covering of borax. Because it is isolated from oxygen, and the presence of borax immediately absorbs any exposed oxides, the gold may be bright and shiny, but that doesn't guarantee that it is pure. Re-melt without a flux cover and take note of the changes in the surface. 

Pure gold does not discolor when melted. If a haze forms on the surface, in particular if it has color, the gold is contaminated. It will always benefit by the presence of borax. Beyond that, when gold is melted in an untreated vessel, it rarely will pour without leaving streamers behind. A properly seasoned melting dish or crucible will permit the gold to flow easily, as if the dish has been lubricated. 

I do not recommend that you melt gold without the use of borax, but I also don't recommend that you use an excess. Season a melting dish as you have been advised (by reading the forum) and get on with the task of melting when it is timely to do so. I strongly advise you to not get creative and to experiment unless your objective is to build a better mousetrap. Follow convention, until you understand what you are doing, and why. Only then can you make intelligent decisions. 

Read Hoke, and gain an understanding of the basics before you fancy yourself clever and wish to make changes. It's apparent, at least to me, that you hope to run, yet you are not able to walk yet. 

Read Hoke. 

Read Hoke again. 

Read the forum, and learn from the mistakes of others. 

Harold


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## JamesR (May 10, 2012)

Hello. This is my first try at melting and pouring a gold ingot. Is it possible to do the melt directly in a graphite mold? Are there melting dishes in the form of ingot mold so to eleminate the pouring process? I'm a little shakey and my pours will be small. It seems like a good idea and would give a more even spread without pre heating the mold. If this works, should I add Borax to the melt?


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## Smack (May 10, 2012)

The graphite won't last long melting in it and fluxing in it will make for a mess on the graphite that you will have to scrape off.


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## Harold_V (May 11, 2012)

JamesR said:


> Hello. This is my first try at melting and pouring a gold ingot. Is it possible to do the melt directly in a graphite mold? Are there melting dishes in the form of ingot mold so to eleminate the pouring process? I'm a little shakey and my pours will be small. It seems like a good idea and would give a more even spread without pre heating the mold. If this works, should I add Borax to the melt?


If your pours are small, you may be perfectly served by simply melting your gold in a large metling dish, and allowing it to freeze there. It's easily removed with a tweezers if you get after it immediately after it freezes, but before the borax coating in the dish solidifies. 

Melting without borax isn't a good idea. It *lubricates* the melting dish, preventing gold from fusing to the dish, and allows the gold to flow easily, so it coalesce in a common mass. It also absorbs traces of oxides. Pure gold is very capable of being melted without flux (borax), but the likelihood that you will produce such quality is not good. 

Read the forum and learn how to season and use melting dishes. They will most likely serve your needs perfectly well. 

Do not melt in a mold. Not unless you have an intert atmosphere, which is highly unlikely. 

Harold


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