# My new love if from italy...



## Marcel (Mar 21, 2012)

Just arrived today and I fell in love with it. 1 Kg bench top furnace. Digital controlled temperature up to 1120 C°. 30 mins melting time. Graphite crucible. Have to read a lot before I can push the button first time....


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## AztekShine (Mar 21, 2012)

How much? $


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## supercharged04 (Mar 21, 2012)

new toys are fun enjoy. 8)


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## Marcel (Mar 21, 2012)

AztekShine said:


> How much? $



It was 499€ and since it was imported from autria, I still await customs. Maybe 100€ more.. :-(

I have researched a lot around, there are similar furnaces from chinaand they do cost less, but the quality is also not comrable and the shipping very high (around 100 USD to the US or EU) and the customs regulations not very clear.
And then, if there is a problem, I dont want to send the thing back to china..
2 Kg china furnaces sell for around 399 USD. But becareful at compare.


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## Harold_V (Mar 22, 2012)

I do not mean to rain on your parade, but those of us who are familiar the furnaces of that design hate them (ask GSP how well he likes them). You'll come to understand why when you put yours in service. 

Hint----keep watch on how short the crucible life is, and how expensive it is to replace. 

You would have been FAR better served to have put your money in to an acetylene/oxygen torch system. 

Harold


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## goldenchild (Mar 22, 2012)

I thought I was about to see a Lambourgini. Then I would have been jealous. 8)


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## samuel-a (Mar 22, 2012)

Marcel

Congrats on your new purchase.
It sounds a little pricy with a total of about 600€. But italians know how to build quality.
I own similar type electric kettle furnace suited for 2 Kg, i bought it second hand along with two new crucibles, a crucible tongs and a digital scale for 600$.

I couldn't be happier with it. The crucibles are indeed pricy so i limit my use and combine whatever i can to melt as bigger bathecs as possible.


Few weeks ego, it stoped heating all of a sudden... So i began investigating.
As it turned out, the previous owner was very sloppy in the way he handeled his molten metals or the way he charged it and i have found a huge silvery looking lump draind in the main chamber right down to the work coil leads, eventually the coil lead had succumbed.
Long story short, i had to chizel away the heating coil around the cup (the main chamber) and replace it, all in all it cost me 40$ for new coil and some refactory cement. 
This ordeal yielded few positive things: 1st, about 15g of gold and about an once of silver... i wish "accidents" like that will happen more often... :mrgreen: 
2nd, i learned exactly how it is built, now i can confidently open it and fit other shapes crucibles... basically use it as a side up door furnace (though limited in size).

Anyways, here's a tip to make the crucible life a little longer.
While new, I smear the outside of the crucibles with a thin & even layer of refactoy cement, about 1mm thick or slightly less and let it dry for a week before usage.
If the crucible is not used for clean metals, the entire inside is coated with thin borax layer.
It is a bit more labor intensive but well woth it as you can prolong the graphite life many times over that way.


I don't know if you made the wrong choice or not, that's up to what you need to do. Though you will find eventually that your work will also require you to have a torch rig as well.
Would i buy it again now, probably not. Not because it's not a good product, but because the usage is limitd for my need vs. a side door furnace.

Here's the burned coil:


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## bagus (Mar 22, 2012)

samuel-a said:


> Marcel
> 
> This ordeal yielded few positive things: 1st, about 15g of gold and about an once of silver... i wish "accidents" like that will happen more often... :mrgreen:



15 gr of gold? so you basically got the furnace for free then? lol


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 22, 2012)

It's an over priced gadget. You should have searched the forum before wasting your money.


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## samuel-a (Mar 22, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> over priced



agreed!


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 22, 2012)

I apologize for coming on so strong. I didn't mean to insult anyone. I guess these things are one of my pet peeves and just seeing one raises up the hairs on the back of my neck. It will work for some things, sort of. For what you pay for them, I feel you end up with an extremely limited piece of equipment. They really do look neat, though. It's so easy to use a torch or build a simple gas furnace that will run rings around one of those things.


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## Harold_V (Mar 23, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> It's so easy to use a torch or build a simple gas furnace that will run rings around one of those things.


That's really the long and short of the thing. I used mine when I had it (purchased new), even covered the crucible with refractory to prolong life, but it simply wasn't convenient to use. In the end, it sat on a shelf, never to be used again. 

A suitable melting furnace that would be far more flexible can be built for less money, and would accept crucibles that are greater in capacity and lower in price by a long shot. The crucibles in question are not made of graphite (although one of the available formulations is graphite/clay), so life expectancy is huge by comparison. 

Harold


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## samuel-a (Mar 24, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> For what you pay for them, I feel you end up with an extremely limited piece of equipment. They really do look neat, though. It's so easy to use a torch or build a simple gas furnace that will run rings around one of those things.





Harold_V said:


> A suitable melting furnace that would be far more flexible can be built for less money, and would accept crucibles that are greater in capacity and lower in price by a long shot. The crucibles in question are not made of graphite (although one of the available formulations is graphite/clay), so life expectancy is huge by comparison.



My next big setup step is already planned out, where i'll probably scrap my kettle furnace (to be used on other projects) and use the controller, switches and thermocouple of a larger side door furnace and an incinirator unit (separately), both of which will be attached to a filtration and scrubbing unit i'm designing.


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## Marcel (Mar 25, 2012)

Well it might be regarded as a gadget, I will try it out, if I cannot work with it properly I will resell it on Ebay, they sell used almost as much as new. :lol: 
I checked that before. As for the crucible: There are sources from china etc. where you can get them much cheaper. Cant say anything about quality but there is a second source.
THen you can also use crucibles made of SS for not PM- material and even quartz, which cost more but should last much longer.
I am planning to melt alloys , not only fine refined stuff (sinse that is to much chemicals for me). Then sell the alloyed material to a large refiner who will pay according to the XRF results.
That way I omit the last refining steps, which are not well suited for my equipment and experience.
In the US you have much space and can build any furnace in some garden shelter, here we are in an area where my neigbours are just a few mtrs. away, so everything has to be set up indoors with limited space, ventilation etc. I cannot go out f.i. in my garden and grill some lbs of flatpacks as it was done here, I always have to think about minimal odors, fumes and attraction.
In this sense, a small furnace is better for my purpose than any gas powered, self-made oven or torch.


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## butcher (Mar 25, 2012)

Maybe you need a small torch on a back pack, and get up into the woods on a camping trip, should be some nice mountain somewhere, you could spend the night, build a campfire, get away for a bit and melt some gold.
Or find some friend mechanic, or welder that will let you use their shop for a few hours, he may like a brew, and watch you melt some gold.
I would not try this stuff in your living quarters. Outdoors or under a fume hood. Or some other safe place. Even the small furnace could start your home on fire. 

Just be sure your working safely that little bit of gold will not pay for all of the trouble it could cause if you do not work safe.


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## nickvc (Mar 26, 2012)

I'll second Butchers concerns and hope that you Marcel take the comments in the manner in which they were made, to protect you,your family and your home.
I can also see Marcel,s point of view, I find it pointless to refine when a recovery only can yield the same returns but cheap assays help me ensure I don't get ripped off, also space here in Europe is not as easy to find, we are a very crowded continent not like north America where houses can be on 1/3 acre of land + , houses like that in Europe cost $1 million dollars +...
Please Marcel make sure that whatever your doing your taking care of your health, don't take unnecessary risks with chemicals or with furnaces both can and do cause major injuries.


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## Harold_V (Mar 26, 2012)

nickvc said:


> we are a very crowded continent not like north America where houses can be on 1/3 acre of land + , houses like that in Europe cost $1 million dollars +...


Interesting!
Susan and I live on 5½ acres of land---purchase price was $17,500, which was almost fully recovered by harvesting trees prior to building. Many of my neighbors live on more---some of them much more. One house is built on 60 acres, for example. 

Harold


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## Geo (Mar 26, 2012)

i have a meager 1 acre and the charter on the sub-division says there can only be one domicile per lot.


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## joem (Mar 27, 2012)

Geo said:


> i have a meager 1 acre and the charter on the sub-division says there can only be one domicile per lot.


Compared to you guys, I live in a matchbox on an ant hill.
I only have an 1800 square foot townhome (row) on an 800 sqaure foot patch of construction grade dirt. But hey I still make money from my e-waste efforts and I would still even if I lived in a "van down by the river".


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