# How much gold do you think could be extracted from these?



## dlb92 (May 23, 2012)

These are gold plated transistor caps used in the first minute man missile ~1960. This little bag weighs between 1.5 and 2 pounds (I dont have an accurate scale at the moment).

The small circles are so thin I cut one in half and you cannot see what the core metal is but it is not easily flexible.

One company in california said he had no idea if they were worth anything and would melt them for free and pay me if they found anything.

Another company rated A+ with BBB said give him $100 and he would send back 98% of any gold they found.

Anyone here have any opinions? Not sure who to trust. If this was 10% gold we're looking at $2000, 50% gold $7000. What if I send this to someone and they keep the gold and tell me its not worth anything. Seems there should be an easier way to figure this out..how did they do it 6000 years ago??


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## maynman1751 (May 23, 2012)

If you have them in your possession, weigh out a certain amount and process them. Then, according to the return, if any, you can figure what the rest will yield. Or there are several trusted members who would possibly process some for you.


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## samuel-a (May 23, 2012)

dlb92

Hard to tell honestly.

If the shapes are not too complex, you can work out an estimation of the plated surface area of one piece and apply it for the rest of your lot.
The only real unknown here is the thickness of plating. You could estimate it by dissolving one piece in moderately warm dilute nitric and see what happens with the gold foil...
If it crumbles to gadzillion tiny pieces then you are looking at flash plating (5-10 microinch).
If it crumbles to just several pieces then it might be anywhere from 15-30 microinch.
If it keeps its original shape more or less then it might indicate 30 microinch or more.

You can work out the calculation using these links:
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=822
http://www.goldnscrap.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72:gold-plating-calculator&catid=49:calculators&Itemid=66


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## etack (May 23, 2012)

do a surface area calculation on them they are plated. Use 50 as gold plating thickness in http://www.goldnscrap.com calculator.


http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=822

http://www.goldnscrap.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72:gold-plating-calculator&catid=49:calculators&Itemid=66

50 micro inch plating is $0.80 a square inch at $1560 gold

did a search and came up with this http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5535&p=47508&hilit=+transistor#p47508
Test Test Test

Eric

You beat me Sam


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## dlb92 (May 23, 2012)

> If it crumbles to gadzillion tiny pieces then you are looking at flash plating (5-10 microinch).
> If it crumbles to just several pieces then it might be anywhere from 15-30 microinch.
> If it keeps its original shape more or less then it might indicate 30 microinch or more.



This sounds interesting, I do have a minor in chemistry but where does one obtain nitric acid? Does everyone else agree with the above approximation?
I need to cut one in half so the inner core is exposed otherwise it won't dissolve will it?

Most of the bag is full of hundreds of those round plates you see, the rest is the caps you see and there are only those two shapes.




samuel-a said:


> dlb92
> 
> Hard to tell honestly.
> 
> ...


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## Oz (May 23, 2012)

PM sent


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## samuel-a (May 23, 2012)

etack
Great minds think alike... lol
8) :mrgreen:



dlb92

There might be some overlap with these three genral "grades".

One more thing that help me fine tune the determination of which grade a plating belongs to is:
Once the dissolution is over, i'm boiling the solution for 1or 2 minutes and see how much damage occurred to the foil's integrity.
The smaller the damage, the heavier the plating.

This is usually done in a test tube.


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## dlb92 (May 23, 2012)

Where to get nitric?


HCL would work if core was not copper/silver right?


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## etack (May 23, 2012)

Sam I love you calculator. I use it often as of late. I was given over 30000 pins some in bags most came on two reels. I just hope that my area calcs. where right. :lol: 


Eric


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## samuel-a (May 23, 2012)

etack said:


> Sam I love you calculator. I use it often as of late. I was given over 30000 pins some in bags most came on two reels. I just hope that my area calcs. where right. :lol:
> 
> 
> Eric



Eric

Do share your experiance and observatons once you are done with it.


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## dlb92 (May 23, 2012)

So I learned how to make nitric acid on youtube.

I'm going to count all the plates and post my results when I am done. Pretty sure I'm going to have a very large surface area.


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## Geo (May 23, 2012)

youtube huh? the best source for DIY chemicals is right here on the forum. theres alot of information on youtube thats misleading and some is down right dangerous. try to learn the screen names of some of our more prestigious members on youtube and follow their advise and you should be ok. or you could look it up here on the reactions list in the guided tour. making nitric acid should be ranked around 4 or 5 of the most dangerous processes because the fumes can kill you and the acids used can maim or kill you. i'm 48 and on every med made for COPD and have never smoked a cigarette in my life, but i have made quite a bit of nitric acid in my younger days.


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## Oz (May 23, 2012)

dlb92 said:


> So I learned how to make nitric acid on youtube.



If you want to make nitric acid would certainly find your directions on this forum. We rapidly correct any false information posted. Try starting here 
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=14266&p=143264&hilit=cold+nitric+acid#p143264

Having said that, I would cut one each of your caps and disks into quarters and try HCl (muriatic acid available at your local hardware store) with just a capful of Dollar Store H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide). Not knowing your base metal under your gold plating there is a high probability this will digest it leaving you foils. If it does, I will go into the household products to digest your foils and precipitate your gold.


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## dlb92 (May 23, 2012)

Oz said:


> dlb92 said:
> 
> 
> > So I learned how to make nitric acid on youtube.
> ...




That is exactly what I was going to try first after I get them all counted.


This is actually a pretty cool video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yE7v4wkuZU


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## dlb92 (May 23, 2012)

Does anyone know what the average thickness of military/space gold plating was in the 60's?


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## Geo (May 23, 2012)

Nurdrage makes some good videos. pay attention to their warnings. they do their experiments in a lab environment. i you attempt any of their experiments please be safety aware and use all the right safety gear. no filter can filter nitrogen dioxide fumes, NONE.


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## Geo (May 23, 2012)

milspec can be anywhere between 30 to 80 microinches, even more on special equipment.

i think type (3) class was thicker than type (4)class for electronics on PCB's

plugs and fingers and slot connectors were type (1) and type (2) which is thickest


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## Geo (May 23, 2012)

i would love to have a truck load of these.


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## dlb92 (May 24, 2012)

So I have ~1989 (15 ounces) of 12mm round plates and 198 transistor caps (4 ounces). If I did the math right its ~697 square inches for the plates, I'm guessing another 70 square inches for the caps.

So at 50 micro thats about $600 worth of gold right.

Funny thing is my dad bought these for $1 when he retired, he could have got a lot more, and many were thrown away.


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## dlb92 (May 25, 2012)

So this is after 10 minutes in about 30mL of 30% hcl and 5mL 3% H202


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## dlb92 (May 26, 2012)

I'm having some success, I keep putting fresh acid with a little bit of h202 and I had a pure gold flake break off where it had eaten away at the inner metal .

I suppose I should have weighed it before I started this then I could determine exactly what % gold each disc is. I'd have to drive a ways to get to a scale that sensitive though. But I guess I can multiply my results by whatever number of discs I have.

i covered the jar with a latex glove maybe that will prevent the acid from evaporating or it will just eat through the glove..

Seems to need to be around 25-30% HCL for it to start dissolving the metal inside any lower and nothing happens. Overnight the liquid turned from greenish-yellow to a pretty dark gold-yellow (Does this mean its kovar?)

heat should speed this up right? I put it in a hot water bath on my patio guess we'll see..I also found some 10% H202 whitening strips.


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## maynman1751 (May 26, 2012)

Don't use too much H2O2 or you could dissolve the gold. You want to keep as flakes. Do you have a bubbler?


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## dlb92 (May 26, 2012)

maynman1751 said:


> Don't use too much H2O2 or you could dissolve the gold. You want to keep as flakes. Do you have a bubbler?




No I don't have any equipment. Its on my christmas list now that I'm done with school and can afford it.

Once I'm left with flakes I'll know there is nothing left when the hcl doesn't turn colors right?


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## maynman1751 (May 26, 2012)

dlb92 said:


> maynman1751 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't use too much H2O2 or you could dissolve the gold. You want to keep as flakes. Do you have a bubbler?
> ...



You can get a pretty cheap aerator at a pet store, but don't use an air stone. Just melt and seal the end of the plastic tubing and poke small holes through the last inch of the tubing.
Not necessarily color change. Just look to see that all of the solids, minus the gold flakes, are dissolved.
Any more questions or doubts, please ask!


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## dlb92 (May 26, 2012)

Check it out guys!

Anyone wager how much of this I have? Multiply this amount by 2200. If only I had a scale.

It maintained its shape better than what is in the picture i just bent it to see if there was any underlying metal. I had it cut in 3 peices and its still in 3 peices


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## Geo (May 26, 2012)

without a scale, it will be a guess. as thick as the foils are, id guess 2 grams per pound. the base metal isnt all that thick and its plated on all surfaces.


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## dlb92 (May 26, 2012)

Geo said:


> without a scale, it will be a guess. as thick as the foils are, id guess 2 grams per pound. the base metal isnt all that thick and its plated on all surfaces.[/quote
> 
> Guess seems a little low that's like 5 micro for area that's played


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## Geo (May 26, 2012)

millspec pins only yield 4 grams to the pound and they have much more plated area and less base metal. my guess was conservative. i hope for you that im wrong but ive processed a lot of millspec material and i cant see it being more. 

always underestimate yields and that way, if its over, you are surprised in a pleasant way instead of the other way around.


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## dlb92 (May 26, 2012)

Well if the yield is that low would you all advise I process them all this way myself


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## Geo (May 26, 2012)

all i can tell you is, if it was mine, i would process them myself. i really couldnt advise you to process anything because i dont know your level of understanding of the processes involved or the environment you would be working in. thats a decision you will have to make yourself. if you are confident that you can handle all the processes of recovery and refining you shouldnt have much of a problem as thats some very straight forward material with no contamination. i cant think of any better material to learn with.


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## dlb92 (May 26, 2012)

Geo said:


> all i can tell you is, if it was mine, i would process them myself. i really couldnt advise you to process anything because i dont know your level of understanding of the processes involved or the environment you would be working in. thats a decision you will have to make yourself. if you are confident that you can handle all the processes of recovery and refining you shouldnt have much of a problem as thats some very straight forward material with no contamination. i cant think of any better material to learn with.



Once I get to foils what do I do with it sell it?

I'm going to do it one more time punch a hole in center so , you can see full foil, the picture
One of the foils bent in half so it looks smaller guess one of my pharmacies has a mg scale I can use


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## Geo (May 26, 2012)

weigh out 100 ml's of material. recover the foils and weigh the foils (dry). that will give you a rough average you can expect. keep in mind that foil weight will never match refined weight. 

go to lazersteves website and watch his free videos on processing gold foils from fingers. its the same principle. www.goldrecovery.us

username : gold
password : goldm1ner*

he also has a small selection of items in the shopping section that may help you out.

i recommend you also watch the sulfuric stripping cell. that may be a better process for what you have.


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## dlb92 (May 26, 2012)

I will look up tonight after work, I'm sure website will tell me but if you dissolve core and all that's left is gold playing why wouldn't it be pure, also if it was totally refined what do you do with it (besides keep it cause it's really cool)


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## Geo (May 26, 2012)

well, first of all, foils would be considered pure gold. but there will always be contamination. either as salts of the base metal or undissolved solids. as foils are exposed to the environment, it gets contaminated from the air. theres dust, and believe it or not, metal floating in the air, salt,hair,lint,organic matter,skin,poop, anything and everything is attracted to the foils because they are magnetically charged.reclaiming the foils is the first part of the process, the next step is refining. there are several ways to do it by the beginner and again theres a video on steves site that shows you how to dissolve the foils. after they have been dissolved, you will precipitate the gold out as gold powder. follow this with Harolds washes and rinses and you should have a nice quality end product that many here on the forum would buy from you at or near spot price.


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## dlb92 (May 26, 2012)

If you melted the foils wouldn't that be almost as good? what percent of would the foil themselves be ? I'm not sure I can watch hundreds of dollars dissolve into solution


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## Geo (May 26, 2012)

:lol: thats why you dont do it until you know what your doing. if you just melt the foils, it will be contaminated. its impossible to say to what extent. you can clean them as best you can to lessen the contamination but its kind of redundant if you plan to refine it later. if you dont want to refine it at all, i would suggest you make a deal with one of our members that will do it for you. we have a few moderators among the ones you can call on. most everyone here refines in some capacity. the more established members understand that to short change or deceive or cheat another member in a deal made on the open forum would be detrimental to their standing on the forum. many here do business here so it would benefit them to do the best they can do and give you the best percentage they can. word of mouth is a very powerful thing on the forum.


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## dlb92 (May 26, 2012)

Ok so I have an issue..when I came home the foils were breaking apart floating on top of solution and one of them was turning black, what does that mean?


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 27, 2012)

You might want to test your solution for vlues if you have stnnous chloride, there is a possability tht with the aamount of solution you are using for your test that some of your gold might get dissolved into your solution. A test of this nature with a smaller amount of solution would work better.


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## dlb92 (May 27, 2012)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> You might want to test your solution for vlues if you have stnnous chloride, there is a possability tht with the aamount of solution you are using for your test that some of your gold might get dissolved into your solution. A test of this nature with a smaller amount of solution would work better.



Since I don't have any tin powder laying around can I put a peice of a tin can into hcl for the stannous chloride?


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## etack (May 27, 2012)

when you are on Steve's website check out his de-plating cell videos. This would be done in hours instead of weeks.

fast and simple

Eric


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## goldsilverpro (May 27, 2012)

dlb92 said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > You might want to test your solution for vlues if you have stnnous chloride, there is a possability tht with the aamount of solution you are using for your test that some of your gold might get dissolved into your solution. A test of this nature with a smaller amount of solution would work better.
> ...



I may be wrong, but I don't think that so-called "tin cans" are commonly made with tin coated steel any longer. Tin is expensive. Buy some 95% tin solder to make the stannous chloride.


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 27, 2012)

dlb92 said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > You might want to test your solution for vlues if you have stnnous chloride, there is a possability tht with the aamount of solution you are using for your test that some of your gold might get dissolved into your solution. A test of this nature with a smaller amount of solution would work better.
> ...



Tin can will not work. You can go to home store or hardware store and get some 95/5 plumbers solder and cut it up into some small pieces nd soak the in HCL till you get no more reaction, heat helps with this. Then filter your solution thru a coffee filter and you are ready to go.


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## dlb92 (May 27, 2012)

This is kind of exciting, I filtered the acid from the jar I thought was dissolving my gold from the first round disc and this is what I got.

I also tried one of the barrels and an intact circle.

Does anyone know what material this barrel is made out of? It seems completely resistant to the HCL.

Also how do you recommend getting the tiny particles in the filter paper? I tried a magnet cause someone said the particles were magnetically charged but it didn't pick anything up.


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## goldsilverpro (May 28, 2012)

If it's magnetic, it's probably Kovar, which is 54Fe/29Ni/17Co


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## dlb92 (May 28, 2012)

So I watched Lazersteve's videos but it doesn't say what to do once you get the black precipitate with smb.

If the barrel was Kovar wouldn't the HCL dissolve it eventually? It was in a 100C bath for a couple of hours and is still in one piece.


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## Geo (May 28, 2012)

Kovar is iron based, AP has a hard time breaking it down. especially such a large piece. did you try a magnet to see?


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## dlb92 (May 28, 2012)

Geo said:


> Kovar is iron based, AP has a hard time breaking it down. especially such a large piece. did you try a magnet to see?



Both the circles and the barrels are magnetic..


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## Geo (May 29, 2012)

if the foils are liberated from the pieces, theres no real need to dissolve the whole piece. this may be a good time to read up on the sulfuric stripping cell. if you want to continue using AP, i would suggest doing small lots and pulling the Kovar out as soon as the foils come loose.


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## dlb92 (May 29, 2012)

Geo said:


> if the foils are liberated from the pieces, theres no real need to dissolve the whole piece. this may be a good time to read up on the sulfuric stripping cell. if you want to continue using AP, i would suggest doing small lots and pulling the Kovar out as soon as the foils come loose.



That makes sense I was just curious to see what the metal underneath was and if it was worth anything since it didn't dissolve like the metal in the discs. I guess the discs have more gold than the barrels.

I read up on the sulfuric stripping cell but it seems like a pain for all the small pieces I have and I don't really want to deal with sulfuric acid. I actually have 4oz of material reacting in hot HCL right now in a glass container in a hot water bath in a styrofoam "cooler".

I'm thinking about turning the foils into a ring or something like that as a keepsake since I lost my original wedding ring.


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## dlb92 (May 30, 2012)

So when I'm done and I have a lot of dark green liquid and want to preciptate any gold that might have dissolved using SMB, do I just add SMB solution to the liquid and siphon it off like he does in the video to get to the mud?

I read the gold is black, does the washing with water or HCL turn it from black to gold or both?


I'm reading this:
http://www.goldnscrap.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73:refining-karat-gold-and-silver-jewelry-using-inquarting-method-part-2&catid=25:scrap-gold-9k-24k&Itemid=20


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## Geo (May 30, 2012)

if you rinse and wash according to Harolds instructions, it will be a light brown to tan color.


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## dlb92 (May 31, 2012)

What a disaster! My glass canning jar fell apart inside my cooler (note jar in picture) so I had to pan for gold particles out of 2 gallons of hot acid/water.

Regardless I got everything, here is what was done (about half) and the rest is in the acid again. All this from about 5oz of material and half is still in jar.


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## dlb92 (Jun 2, 2012)

here is completely stripped/demagnatized foil,

What do you think?


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## goldenchild (Jun 26, 2012)

dlb92 said:


> What a disaster! My glass canning jar fell apart inside my cooler (note jar in picture) so I had to pan for gold particles out of 2 gallons of hot acid/water.



At least you were clever enough to have it all contained outside of the jar. What was the final yeild of this lot?


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## acpeacemaker (Jun 26, 2012)

Panning in 2 gallons of acid? I've come across the breaking issue before, and I just used a very large funnel and a charmin plug and got everything back fairly quickly.


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## dlb92 (Jan 14, 2013)

So i finally processed all those gold things in HCL. I bought a hot plate and stirrer and boiled it in 31% HCL for about 16 hours. This is what remains after washing.

It is still wet but I weighed 1.89583333333333333333 troy ounces. 

How much is this worth?


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## Geo (Jan 14, 2013)

hard to estimate wet.dry it and then weigh it.


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## dlb92 (Jan 14, 2013)

How should i dry it? let it sit for a few days?



Geo said:


> hard to estimate wet.dry it and then weigh it.


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## Geo (Jan 14, 2013)

use a heat resistant NON-metallic (Pyrex or corning-ware) container and gently heat them.cover them will a cover or at least cover with a paper towel to keep dust out.


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## dlb92 (Jan 14, 2013)

Geo said:


> use a heat resistant NON-metallic (Pyrex or corning-ware) container and gently heat them.cover them will a cover or at least cover with a paper towel to keep
> 
> The glass ware weighs .11 pounds and once I removed the water the combined weight was .17 pounds so roughly .85 troy ounces out of 18 ounces of scrap
> 
> There is still some green at bottom once I took out water should I wash this with HCl some more?


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## trashmaster (Jan 15, 2013)

Congrats;;;;; Great looking flakes;;; Yea I would go back and use heralds washing instructions ... You have 24K GOLD FLAKE just a little dirty yet ..

Graet Job.


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## lazersteve (Feb 3, 2013)

db,

Please let us know the final weight after the foils are dissolved, precipitated, and melted.

Steve


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## joem (Feb 19, 2013)

dlb92 said:


> What a disaster! My glass canning jar fell apart inside my cooler (note jar in picture) so I had to pan for gold particles out of 2 gallons of hot acid/water.
> 
> Regardless I got everything, here is what was done (about half) and the rest is in the acid again. All this from about 5oz of material and half is still in jar.



A good lesson on having an external safty bucket with your jars.


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## ilikesilver (Feb 26, 2013)

dlb92 said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > use a heat resistant NON-metallic (Pyrex or corning-ware) container and gently heat them.cover them will a cover or at least cover with a paper towel to keep
> ...



nice closeup of what you got, when you gonna melt it down?


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## patnor1011 (Feb 26, 2013)

ilikesilver said:


> dlb92 said:
> 
> 
> > Geo said:
> ...



Why would he even consider melting it?
They are just foils and still dirty. They have to be dissolved and processed properly. What he did so far is that he reduced most of base metals but now need to do actual refining to get pure gold.


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## GoldmanM (Mar 7, 2013)

Hi dear all
first of all apologise for my english, second thanks a lot on evety member of this forum for help and advise, so, also i must say , i'm total beginer. I want to use this tread because i have same question, but and same disaster, i mix hcl 15-18% and hidrogen peroxid 35 % ratio 2:1, solution react fast, and start to bubling, popup wet cloth and speal out, after all i start to colect foils from fingers with wet tip tweazers, also second mystake arenot jar on botom. Now i want not to repeat same with material on pics and i want to tell mi from eye how much is posible to get yeild, and best way to get out.
All is weight allround 5 kgr.
Thanks.


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