# Been working thru this mess



## mikeinreco (Feb 19, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183081112142?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Thanks for looking


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## niks neims (Feb 20, 2018)

Wow, Ebay prices really are unreal... 70 bucks for ~240g of fingers??! AND there is low yield ENIG pieces mixed in.... How much (little) gold could you possibly hope to recover from that lot? Who keeps buying this??!

-Artūrs


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## Joko sulistyo (Feb 20, 2018)

I hope you can post here about how much gold can be recovered with that price.

Sent from my ASUS_Z008D using Tapatalk


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## rickbb (Feb 20, 2018)

Trimmed gold fingers are only bringing in $20 per pound at one of the highest paying buyers out there.

A lot of 8 oz. is worth $10, max, without shipping.


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## niks neims (Feb 20, 2018)

rickbb said:


> Trimmed gold fingers are only bringing in $20 per pound at one of the highest paying buyers out there.



See, now that seems a little low (actually Boardsort pays 30, just checked )

If I were to buy some (fingers, not ENIG), I would think end price of about 100 eur/kg looks fair - I would expect to recover about 150 EUR worth of gold from there with current spot price....

So for OP`s lot of 240g it would be about 30 bucks, shipping icluded 


-Artūrs


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## shmandi (Feb 20, 2018)

But it's gold! 
Joke. 
He(she) may even get lucky on eBay. I just think adds like that shouldn't be posted here on forum. 
Maybe in "Overpriced scrap section"


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## g_axelsson (Feb 20, 2018)

I don't see a problem with ads like that posted here. It tells a lot about the seller as well as it educates new members here.
It isn't like we would keep quiet about overpriced auctions. 8) 

This is my personal opinion, we have never discussed ads like this among the moderators.

Göran


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## niks neims (Feb 20, 2018)

shmandi said:


> I just think adds like that shouldn't be posted here on forum



I agree with Göran - as long as there is discussion allowed regarding asking price, there is no problem with threads like this one. It`s hardly a positive advertisement 

-Artūrs


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 20, 2018)

Free markets are awesome. You can ask anything you wish, but if buyers won't pay, well, no sale.


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## niks neims (Feb 20, 2018)

silversaddle1 said:


> Free markets are awesome. You can ask anything you wish, but if buyers won't pay, well, no sale.



Problem is - many newbie would be buyers are cutting corners, not doing their homework and getting hurt - mistakenly assuming that the "asking price" shares some coherence with the actual yield data... I think that should be right up there in beginner section - little bit below safety warnings - in big red block letters - DO NOT TRUST THE PRICE THAT IS BEING ASKED HAVE ANY RELATION WITH ACTUAL YIELD!.....

-Artūrs


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## mikeinreco (Feb 20, 2018)

Thanks for all the wonderful replies.........Honestly I have no idea of yield or what it's actually worth....Hoping for best offer....Thanks again for all the comments I love this forum!!!


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## geedigity (Feb 20, 2018)

In my humble opinion, as stated in the past by a respected member, as long as the ad describes what is being sold, the asking price could be anything that someone is willing to pay. Trying to protect people from buying items that are not worth the asking price is really not up to us nor is it right for us to dictate that, unless they are our minor children where we are responsible for their well being. 

Here on this forum, a person can read about how it is probably not in their best interest to rush into something they don't understand, especially when it comes to buying scrap and refining. 

If someone is willing to pay top dollar for something, why is it wrong to sell it to them for the price you want to? If the buyer doesn't know what they are buying, isn't it the buyers responsibility to understand what they are doing? Why doesn't the buyer have to be accountable or responsible? As long as the item(s) that is for sale and is as described, people will pay up to the price they will pay until they won't. 

I don't sell on ebay, but have bought some items from there. If I think the item is reasonably priced, I buy, if not, I don't. That seems pretty fair to me. 

We could look at the flip side. How some sellers on ebay are able to sell items so cheap, is beyond me. However, I try not to get fooled there either. Just because something is priced low, dosen't mean I should expect quality. We don't go around saying we need to protect people from buying things too cheaply. To me, this would be similar to saying, people shouldn't buy fingers because they are over priced. In both situations you may have paid too much. Maybe you really wanted a quality product or wanted to get rich off of the gold fingers. Maybe the buyer had different intentions for the fingers. 

We have a member on this forum who frequently paid more than the pm value of the scrap sold on ebay. It turns out that his intentions were to make excellent videos of him refining the scrap. All I can say, is well done!! 

Notice that my opinion above assumes the seller and buyer are not misrepresenting items or being fraudulent.


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## niks neims (Feb 21, 2018)

mikeinreco said:


> Thanks for all the wonderful replies.........Honestly I have no idea of yield or what it's actually worth....Hoping for best offer....Thanks again for all the comments I love this forum!!!



no need to be sarcastic, you kind of brought it on yourself - what is more - the nature of your original post is very ambiguous (perhaps you left it so intentionaly, suspecting your offer isn`t fair?) - without checking Ebay username there is no way to tell - either you are the buyer or the seller... So from our perspective you could be unsuspecting forum member that is about to be taken for a ride by dishonorable trader... a situation we must remedy immediately 

still I apologize if I misread you and your intentions were pure... If I may inquire further:

1) if you had no idea of yield - why are you asking 69 $, how did you arrive at that number?

2) Now that you know the yield (4-4.5g/kg) do you intend to change the asking price?


-Artūrs


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## mikeinreco (Feb 21, 2018)

My intentions are pure and true there may be a hint of sarcasm in my voice I appreciate the honest feedback.....I deal with thousands of pounds of low to mid grade ewaste each month but just getting into these higher end recovery items.......I am just going by past sold listings on ebay......Thanks again


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 21, 2018)

niks neims said:


> mikeinreco said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for all the wonderful replies.........Honestly I have no idea of yield or what it's actually worth....Hoping for best offer....Thanks again for all the comments I love this forum!!!
> ...



Let me address a few things in this post. First off, I don't think the OP was being sarcastic in his reply. I thought he made it clear that he was the seller in one of the post. Second thing, why do you say the seller is dishonest? Who are you to say that? Have you dealt with the seller before? The seller's auction is not misleading in any way. He has good photos, shows the weight, and says he does not know what the yield amounts will be. Seems pretty straight up to me. As for the asking price, what's fair? Just because you buy stuff to refine doesn't mean that's the only way to make money off the scrap. Asking price is just that, asking. He is open to offers in the auction. If it were my auction I'd leave it just like it is and let it ride. I see lots of things sell for stupid money at auction, and I've spent stupid money on some items myself. I need no one to tell me how to spend my money at a auction. If I lose, I lose. If I win, I win. If I really want it, money is of no matter.


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## mikeinreco (Feb 21, 2018)

I lowered it by $10........Ive been selling boards as is for many years and just trying to determine if this is worth the extra effort to go one step further......I'm not set up to refine anything myself in a safe manner so I don't do that.....If this forum is not to learn then I may be in the wrong place.......Ive been reading thru old posts and have determined for me this is the best way to try to sell my material right now and was just offering it up for anyone interested.......Thanks for replies and I will continue to learn and possibly will refine in future but with young children at home its not my plan to try to use chemicals in my kitchen


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 21, 2018)

mikeinreco said:


> I lowered it by $10........Ive been selling boards as is for many years and just trying to determine if this is worth the extra effort to go one step further......I'm not set up to refine anything myself in a safe manner so I don't do that.....If this forum is not to learn then I may be in the wrong place.......Ive been reading thru old posts and have determined for me this is the best way to try to sell my material right now and was just offering it up for anyone interested.......Thanks for replies and I will continue to learn and possibly will refine in future but with young children at home its not my plan to try to use chemicals in my kitchen



I refine nothing myself either and do well. Remember, it cost to refine stuff. I support your auction and I will tell you that that's exactly how I do my own. Research completed items to formulate a price, list it correctly with good photos and description and let it run. Someone may buy it. maybe they wont. But never lower the price. Let them bring the offer to you.


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## mikeinreco (Feb 21, 2018)

I appreciate your kind words silver........I'm not a rookie by any means when it comes to the scrap metal game........I may be a little naive about what this smaller precious metal stuff is worth but if you give me price list per LB and a pocket full of money I can buy and sell scrap all day long......Thanks again and am very interested in this forum as well as any type of scrap.......I find this forum a wonderful source of info and I learn something new everyday!!!


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## rickbb (Feb 21, 2018)

niks neims said:


> rickbb said:
> 
> 
> > Trimmed gold fingers are only bringing in $20 per pound at one of the highest paying buyers out there.
> ...



Call them up and see if they will buy 8 oz of trimmed fingers. See how quickly they hang up the phone.


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## shmandi (Feb 21, 2018)

I have no problem with overpriced listing on eBay. But since it is advertised here on forum and offered to members, my opinion is that price should be fair. On some other forum things are usually offered to members cheaper than advertised elsewhere. Forums are communities of people sharing same interests, some times members become some sort of online friends. 
Buy anyways, members here should know what scrap is worth. Only some new member that is not enough educated yet could make mistake assuming that goods advertised on trustful forum have fair price.
But who am I to judge. Respected members are ok with that, so it is ok with me too.


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 21, 2018)

Just remember that something that is worth XXXX when gold is worth XXXX an ounce will also be worth XXXX if gold goes uo to XXXX an ounce.


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## niks neims (Feb 21, 2018)

rickbb said:


> See how quickly they hang up the phone.



rickbb, In no way I was trying to argue against what you were saying, it`s just that the Boardsort is my go-to price check site, so do you mind sharing the website of the company that you were refering to previously? If you`d like, you can send me that in private message form - I am always trying to expand my knowledge and understanding of e-scrap market 

And, hey, silversaddle1 please don`t be mad at me  let me take this opportunity to express my greatest thanks to you - you are currently one of few active guys here who are generally focused on the trading part of the e-scrap business - a realm that I feel I am venturing very heavily towards  I am learning very much from your posts and hope to learn great deal more 

Also, so far seems that mikeinreco really is a stand-up guy, good luck in your endeavors, man 

*BUT:*
C`mon guys, enough with this enabling and justification of dubious ebay pricing. I have seen the "free market", "alternative value", "investment value", "buyers choice", etc. argument few too many times here in recent history, and frankly I feel it is time to call it out - it is hypocritical, it is morally dishonest and it is a logical fallacy! 
You must agree, that you understand, that it is in the nature of the people (internet users especially ) to seek the path of least resistance, so you must understand that in a very "meta-way" each high asking price sets the stage for an overpriced market... If enough sellers participate in this circus then it starts a vicious cycle - and eaven good-natured, pure-hearted seller like OP unknowingly participates in price fixing - in turn setting up some poor sucker buyer to get hurt... Ok, it is too philosophical of a discussion - whether getting hurt metaphorically by trade is in any way comparable with getting hurt by acid... So let me just say that, so far, I have always been amazed by the level of care and emphasis on one`s well being, that GRF users dedicate to complete strangers and I do not understand why, when discussion moves from losing fingers to losing dollars, suddenly the position switches to, very cynical "each man for himself" rhetoric...

Of course this little forum can`t save the world or change ebay, but as the front page says "Gold refiners helping one another"... not to mention that it would severely damage GRF credibility if obviously overpriced offers would go unchallenged by it`s members...
/end rant 

-Artūrs


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## UncleBenBen (Feb 21, 2018)

niks neims said:


> C`mon guys, enough with this enabling and justification of dubious ebay pricing. I have seen the "free market", "alternative value", "investment value", "buyers choice", etc. argument few too many times here in recent history, and frankly I feel it is time to call it out - it is hypocritical, it is morally dishonest and it is a logical fallacy!



I don't know, Artūrs, maybe it's loyalty to this forum, or just that I've recently been thrown into a position that I need to make the very most of my stockpile of scrap. Or maybe just my own naivety but I don't really see it as hypocritical at all. It's getting the most out of ones work.

I've put in lot of overtime collecting what I have collected. I've also paid way too much money in the beginning for scrap that I didn't have a clue of it's value until I put in the time and study.

We deal with precious metals. It has always drawn the con artist by the very nature of it's value. I have to think this forum weeds most of that out by it's very nature as well. I have found some great friends here that I would trust with anything. 

Believe me, I've struggled with the profit versus refine it all since the beginning. This was supposed to be a great hobby. But the more I learn the more I don't see a problem with selling scrap at more than I would pay for it.


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 22, 2018)

niks neims said:


> rickbb said:
> 
> 
> > See how quickly they hang up the phone.
> ...



Let me tell you a story. I've been doing this stuff for now on 27 years. I have had some really good stuff come and go. Once I had a guy from New York in the warehouse looking to buy some boards to refine. He was starting his own refining business. His plan was to buy escrap and have his refining company refine it for him. He had been doing karat scrap for 30 years and was expanding to, as he put it, "an unlimited supply of metals." Well I had a nice pile of 70's vintage pin boards that I was planning on keeping so I could harvest all the pins and stash them. He seen them and had to have them. I said no but he insisted. He offered three times the current value at that time for them. I sold and asked him if he understood he will lose money and his reply was "Any education cost money." He would come out and buy from me about every six months. He passed away a few years ago. The point is that even though we know what something's worth to us, we don't know what it's worth to someone else. My tow chain in my truck is worth 20 bucks. But to the guy stuck in a snow drift who does not have one, it's worth 50.


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## nickvc (Feb 22, 2018)

I rarely get involved in these discussions but I’m a great believer in a free market, if members were melting pins and selling at vastly inflated prices then I would feel it was doing the forum no good service but if memebers are using good photos and true descriptions of what they are selling then that in my opinion fair, I might not want to pay their price and I’m sure many other memebers will feel the same but in truth it’s like going to an auction, you set a price in your mind and someone pays twice that and you can’t understand why but I have to assume they have their reasons or know more than I do. 
As has been pointed out several times no one has to buy so I see no foul her, if allowing for fees and charges you can sell for more than the big buyers pay then I say good luck.


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## shmandi (Feb 22, 2018)

So what?
We all have stories selling things for unreasonable price. And probably most of us sell things on eBay for more that they are worth. Me too. But I just don't advertise adds here.
There used to be theme The Best of Ebay for overpriced scrap.


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## rickbb (Feb 22, 2018)

niks neims said:


> rickbb said:
> 
> 
> > See how quickly they hang up the phone.
> ...



No worries, was just keeping it focused on the OP's auction item. I doubt any experienced e-scrap buyer would bother with 8oz. Which is why it may do well for him on eBay. 

Obviously if you had tons you would send it directly to a refiner and cut out the middle man, we all would.

In the past I've sent, (or tried to send in Boardsort's case), as identical a shipment as possible, (PC mother boards), to 3 or 4 different buyers. Boardsort didn't want it, said it was too small a batch and then stopped all communication with me. It doesn't matter what price they post if they won't take your shipment, then it has no value at all, at least to them. Which was my point, 8oz is not worth $30 a pound, even to Boardsort.

Of the others cashforcomputerscrap.com took what I had, (gladly I might add), and paid me almost a dollar a pound more than the others. He gets all my e-scrap now, I do check the prices before shipping anything, but they almost always come out on top for price and super quick payment.


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