# 300 LBs of gold boards, worth $8/lb?



## reflector (Jun 12, 2011)

hi, all.

i have an opportunity to buy a few hundred pounds of gold boards from a local company, but i'm wondering if they contain enough gold to make it worth the price.

about half of it is "blank" gold motherboards, no chips installed, all the holes are gold plated and it's a multi-layered PCB board, it weighs 1 LB 6 ounces.
photo of front and back are below

the other half are backplane boards, some decent gold plating, gold pins, and all the holes are gold-plated as well. it weighs 3 LB 6 ounces.
photo of front and back of the backplane are below.

i am wondering if it's a worthwhile buy at $8/lb, anyone have any thoughts?

i know there's some gold between the pcb layers so just doing a cyanide wash wouldn't make sense.

i would probably be having it processed through a local trustworthy refiner, crushed and melted down.

i know another guy who has processed gold boards who's told me that he was getting a return of $12/lb on the gold boards he processed through a refiner not long ago.

if anyone has experience with the return on similar boards, feedback would be appreciated.

thanks!


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## samuel-a (Jun 12, 2011)

reflector said:


> i am wondering if it's a worthwhile buy at $8/lb, anyone have any thoughts?



Too high. IMHO


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## reflector (Jun 12, 2011)

samuel-a said:


> reflector said:
> 
> 
> > i am wondering if it's a worthwhile buy at $8/lb, anyone have any thoughts?
> ...



ok.

what would you pay?

any guess as to what the return is?

i'm not looking to make a killing on these, i just want to make a safe 25% margin, and start building up a relationship with this company.


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## samuel-a (Jun 12, 2011)

we are located at different markets.
Loacally, i couldn't pay more then 0.6 a lb and probably get for it 1.2-1.4 a lb from an e-scrap exporter (maybe with 3000 lb i could get a lilbit higher)

I don't know the market where you are located, all i know is that the market for un-populated boards in the US is more developed. 
But anyway, 8$/lb is way too high in my opinoin.


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## silversaddle1 (Jun 12, 2011)

Here in western Iowa you could fetch around $4.75 a pound for the backplanes. The unpopulated boards I don't know. I really don't think you will make _any_ money on them at $8.00 a pound.


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## patnor1011 (Jun 12, 2011)

Do not forget that value of copper is significant (major) part of price for any board. Gold is just icing on that cake. 
8$/pound from hobby gold recovery point of view - run away. What is fair price? You must find out yourself by running sample and calculation. Time, chemicals, waste minus whatever you can reclaim.


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## samuel-a (Jun 12, 2011)

patnor1011 said:


> Do not forget that value of copper is significant (major) part of price for any board.



Hi pat, Even so,
Cu hovers around 40% of scrap mobo's and cards.
that's about 1.6$ worth of Cu (at market price) for one pound of scrap, and that is the avarage for populated boards.

Even big boys will not make money on this deal. :shock:

Edited


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## reflector (Jun 12, 2011)

samuel-a said:


> we are located at different markets.
> Loacally, i couldn't pay more then 0.6 a lb and probably get for it 1.2-1.4 a lb from an e-scrap exporter (maybe with 3000 lb i could get a lilbit higher)
> 
> I don't know the market where you are located, all i know is that the market for un-populated boards in the US is more developed.
> But anyway, 8$/lb is way too high in my opinoin.



i'm in silicon valley.

if you really are getting only 1.2 - 1.4 per lb for this type of board, i would be happy to pay you double that, $2.50 per lb.

sounds like you are reselling, though, not having it processed.

i am hoping someone on this forum has some experience processing these types of boards, and might know what the return is.


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## Aristo (Jun 12, 2011)

There is quite a variation on the recovery on this type of material. Keep expectations low.
The safe way forward is to get a sample and run it prior to making any purchase. You would be surprised how little gold there is on similar"gold" boards.


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## patnor1011 (Jun 12, 2011)

samuel-a said:


> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> > Do not forget that value of copper is significant (major) part of price for any board.
> ...




40% eh?
454g /100 x 40 = 181.6g of Cu from pound of board.
9000$ / tonne = 9$ for kilo = 0.009$ for gram
181.6 x 0.009 = 1.63$ copper worth in 1 pound of boards.

You said hovers... That is correct because if board is populated that percentage would be 50-60% so we possibly talk about 2.04-2.45$ from one pound of boards. 

People tend to think that they get bit more for boards now than before, because gold is higher. That is only half of story as copper price went up too. 
Another thing is that most of recyclers (and I am talking about bigger operations not like most of us do) send their scrap to copper smelters. They are not board smelter or gold smelter - copper smelter. We tend to see gold, think gold but electronic recycling is not aimed at gold recovery. That is just byproduct - one worth going after but just byproduct of bigger picture.

You are right on that even big boys will not make money on that price. I would say that 2$ / pound for unpopulated boards may be more than enough if I will have to pay. They may be mixed in bigger lots of populated boards but that is about it.

I see questions like how much for this boards, that boards again and again. Answer is that you hardly make profit if you pay for electronic scrap trying to process it yourself. You can only make money if you buy boards cheaper and sell them for few $ extra. That is the only way to make money from "boards".
If you buy them and want extract gold dont forget to calculate your time, chemicals, hardware and waste disposal. Your end product (button, powder) will probably not cover your costs. It all depend how much you pay for material or if you pay at all.

Most of people here do this as hobby and cherry pick nice and easy pieces and sell the rest. These people are making money.
Some people here try to squeeze the last drop and leach kilos of boards and pins and spend liters of acids, scour ebay looking for yellow.... They have fun. Sometimes not.


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## reflector (Jun 12, 2011)

Aristo said:


> There is quite a variation on the recovery on this type of material. Keep expectations low.
> The safe way forward is to get a sample and run it prior to making any purchase. You would be surprised how little gold there is on similar"gold" boards.



thanks, that is sensible advice.

but even keeping expectations low, i would still like to try to figure out what a safe buy rate is.


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## reflector (Jun 13, 2011)

thanks for the response, patnor.

i'm not really doing this as a hobby, nor intending to process the materials myself, i just don't have the time nor skills to do that on a large scale, better to outsource to a professional, IMHO.

i will be taking the materials to a smelter, xstrata copper.
in fact, i will be having my very first lot of materials processed this week, about 20,000 lbs of motherboards, cpus, and memory.

i will have some info coming back when i get the settlement report in 30 days.

my best guess based on info i get from associates who process is that standard PC boards will return (after processing fees) about $5/lb, cpus might be $25-$250/lb depending on type, and memory will be about $20/lb.

not quite sure where gold boards will fit in that range.

i've been trying to educate myself about gold content of various electronic scrap, been checking out the gold content list that aflacglobal posted:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28911037/Gold-Content-List-in-CPU-Chips

also came across this list which seems like it may be copied from the one above:
http://www.ozcopper.com/computer-cpu-gold-yields/


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## Aristo (Jun 13, 2011)

In your first picture, if you remove the gold plated strips on the outer edges, I have seen those strips run at $8.00/lb with gold at around 1300. There is a wide variationon plating, so buy low: $1.50/lb.


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## samuel-a (Jun 13, 2011)

Well said Patnor.

Thank you for the correction, i took the price of pound as it ware a kilo, sorry about that.
I'll edit my post.


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## patnor1011 (Jun 13, 2011)

reflector said:


> my best guess based on info i get from associates who process is that standard PC boards will return (after processing fees) about $5/lb, cpus might be $25-$250/lb depending on type, and memory will be about $20/lb.



That is pretty close to company in Europe (Umicore) who pay about 8,5 euros for kilogram. 
That is 12.18$ so 5.5$/lb 
It looks to me that you get good deal.

To your board I can say only what Aristo already said. From my own experience I know that even they look nice - result may be different. I once had few kilograms similar boards but much smaller. Unpopulated boards for smoke detectors. They were full of holes and nearly covered with plating. It looked on some spots like they are painted with gold. I ran them in AP thinking that I got jackpot but result was disappointing. Only some foils rest of plating just broke to super fine flakes and powder. I am sorry I have no pictures and exact notes. If I was you I would not pay more than you usually pay for computer boards. I would be actually tempted pay less as in populated board where you have the same amount of plating but it is covered with solder and components + extra plating on pins.


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## reflector (Jun 13, 2011)

patnor1011 said:


> To your board I can say only what Aristo already said. From my own experience I know that even they look nice - result may be different. I once had few kilograms similar boards but much smaller. Unpopulated boards for smoke detectors. They were full of holes and nearly covered with plating. It looked on some spots like they are painted with gold. I ran them in AP thinking that I got jackpot but result was disappointing. Only some foils rest of plating just broke to super fine flakes and powder. I am sorry I have no pictures and exact notes. If I was you I would not pay more than you usually pay for computer boards. I would be actually tempted pay less as in populated board where you have the same amount of plating but it is covered with solder and components + extra plating on pins.



that is a good point, however, you should also consider the source.
smoke detectors are generally inexpensive devices, the manufacturer would not be looking to use heavily gold laden boards in their devices.
a network storage company will be willing to pay more for materials cost.

but yes i will heed your advice, and try to buy low.


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## Claudie (Jun 13, 2011)

Smoke detectors are a good example of electronics that contain radiation. Yes, I said radiation. You should use caution on some items like medical or x-ray equipment too. You never know what's in there.
Claude


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 13, 2011)

Smoke detectors

http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/sources/smoke_alarm.html


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## macfixer01 (Jun 13, 2011)

goldsilverpro said:


> Smoke detectors
> 
> http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/sources/smoke_alarm.html




For some entertaining reading, search Google for info about The Radioactive Boy Scout. He purposely collected smoke detectors to remove the Americium. Seemed like just a typical adolescent mistake when I first heard about him. What he's done since though makes me wonder if he's mentally unbalanced?

macfixer01


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## Claudie (Jun 14, 2011)

Read about the Mayapuri radiological accident, it fits in perfectly with scrapping. :shock: 
http://www.jplabs.com/india%20major%20radiation%20accidents.pdf
It is number 9 in this list.


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## patnor1011 (Jun 14, 2011)

I was talking about unpopulated boards from smoke detector, I am absolutly positive they are not radioactive. I am confident that there is not even slight possibility to get irradiated even if you open and scrap smoke detector. Radiation is so small that you will have to stick it to your body for prolonged time.
People will get fairly more radiation from Fukushima than recycler from processing smoke detectors. It is like telling somebody from Central Africa that he may froze to death in winter.
Maybe my avatar confused you but we are not children. There are hundreds of risks associated with recycling electronics. While getting irradiated is possible too, the chance of this is remote compared to being exposed to sillicone dust, beryllium, carcinogenous flame retardants from cutting boards and pins


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## Claudie (Jun 14, 2011)

I wrote that for some of the new guys. The smoke detector was just an example of a common electronic that we all run into that does contain radiation, even if it is a small amount. No harm meant and I did not mean to sound like I was scolding anyone. Stabbing oneself with a screw driver or getting zapped by a capacitor is more likely to happen than getting radiation poisoning from anything, it just doesn't hurt to know that it is out there.


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## patnor1011 (Jun 14, 2011)

No harm taken or intended :lol: 
Friends forever.


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## Harold_V (Jun 14, 2011)

Claudie said:


> I wrote that for some of the new guys. The smoke detector was just an example of a common electronic that we all run into that does contain radiation, even if it is a small amount. No harm meant and I did not mean to sound like I was scolding anyone. Stabbing oneself with a screw driver or getting zapped by a capacitor is more likely to happen than getting radiation poisoning from anything, it just doesn't hurt to know that it is out there.


Absolutely! In this case, ignorance is not bliss. Those that choose to get involved with refining should have a firm understanding of any and all risks, so wise decisions can be made. None of us are harmed by gaining knowledge.

Harold


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## radical351 (Jun 14, 2011)

i was buying boards like this, on ebay they were going for 10 -15 $ lbs
and he was selling alot of them. i dont know if he still has any or not.
i looked up his ebay name "buggs789" and the last time he sold them was in feb. 


its like fingers getting 100 a pound.


ray


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## Aristo (Jun 14, 2011)

"its like fingers getting 100 a pound."

What does that mean?


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## Claudie (Jun 15, 2011)

The gold plated fingers trimmed from ISA cards are selling for around $100 a pound on e-bay


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## Sodbuster (Jun 15, 2011)

Over $150 a lb. if this one sells.

http://cgi.ebay.com/16-lbs-SCRAP-GOLD-COMPUTER-FINGERS-THOUSANDS-THEM-/120730474134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1c18d696


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## reflector (Jun 15, 2011)

Sodbuster said:


> Over $150 a lb. if this one sells.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/16-lbs-SCRAP-GOLD-COMPUTER-FINGERS-THOUSANDS-THEM-/120730474134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1c18d696



oh yeah that's kofk, aka american recyclers.
i was just talking to him today about his mixed ceramic cpu listing.

some of his pricing as well as his reasoning is a little wacky.

he wants you to pay 3 grand ($100/lb) for mixed, mostly ceramic high grade cpus, but claims not to have the time to separate them out or even spread them out for a photo so you can see all of what you're buying.

just puts them in a pile with only some cpus visible and expects you to pay thousands.
don't understand people like that...


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## patnor1011 (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, if you mix them it will be mixed where heavier items may be in bottom of pile. From picture I see only nice ceramics on top and quite a few light plastics underneath. 
Or you may see them mixed on top too not only ceramics on top layer.


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## Claudie (Jun 15, 2011)

In pictures, the Pentium Pros always land face up, did you notice that? :|


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## darshevo (Jun 15, 2011)

When I post cpus for sale I always put them in a nice square. Separated by type and always face up. Seems like I make a little extra doing it that way, could just be escrap voodoo too  

-Lance


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## Aristo (Jun 15, 2011)

There is usually a defiance of the laws of gravity when it comes to displaying ceramic CPUs. The lighter ones (fibre etc) usually goes to the bottom. One the other hand, by experiment,random tossing of CPUs usually end with bottoms up. The picture posted from ebay is a prepared lot for the camera.I am sure that is not shocking to anyone here.


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## pinwheel (Jun 20, 2011)

I carry a gamma scout with me 24/7. There is no substitute for knowledge in this regard. http://www.gammascout.com/ Although due to Fukushima you will have to wait half a year to get one.


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## DNIndustry (Jun 30, 2011)

***&DO NOT BUY***
I think I know where you are buying them from. I got buurned by the same BS, 
They look like a dream in pictures but in reality they are bunk
They are electroless gold that binds to activated nickel substrate. 
Its so thin it looks like paint....Get it wet ....LOL
Do not buy these. Id say they are worth less than copper.
Thats primarily what they are.
at least you only got 300 lbs...i had 1200  i made out though...sent em back.*


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