# Question about recovering gold from ore. Thank You.



## NuggetHuntingFool (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello,

I have a relative in Nevada that has found Gold and I need either a chemical, mechanical, or chemical/mechanical process for recovery and extraction of the metals.

For now, we'd like to process 1-2 tons of material per day. This can all be done by hand if necessary, as the pay-out will be well-worth the efforts.

The ore contains gold, platinum, iridium and some silver. It is a sulphurous-complex type ore. Mostly found in the Nevada/California/Arizona regions.

Here come the questions.

1. Is there a method to extract all 4 metals listed above? The Gold, Platinum and Iridium are the most important (obviously).

2. Which methods, besides cyanide, or chlorine can be used to recover the gold from the ore effictively?

3. What would give us the most yield without damaging the environment or worrying too much about highly acidic compounds? Methods involving induction furnaces seem to give the highest chances for success, however, I'm not certain as to which specific process to use.

4. Can somebody recommend a process that will recover Gold/Platinum/Iridium and possibly the Silver (not as important) with the use of an induction furnace? Step-by-step in layman's terms would be preferable because I am by no means, a fully-fledged chemist.


Thank you for the help!


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## Harold_V (Jan 2, 2008)

Seems to me you'd be far better served if you provided a little more information. For one, the yield per ton of each element (an assay report, in other words), and an idea if you have any other (base) metals involved. 

Induction melting is very efficient, but I'm not convinced it can be used successfully for smelting. There are several issues that would complicate such use, including the destructive nature of the fluxes required to dissolve the gangue. They have been used with great success for melting and heating metals, however. 

Collecting the values is another issue. Melting the ore alone may not serve to separate the values from the ore. A collector of sorts may well be required. 

I'm a bit pessimistic when it comes to dealing with ores. Unless you have extremely high grade materials, it's usually beyond the scope of an individual to process them with success. I may have a different opinion if you provide more information. 

Harold


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Jan 3, 2008)

Okay.

Here are the averages from the testing he's had done.

Gold: 1.5 - 12.3 Ounces Per. Ton
Silver: 0.5 - 18.9 Ounces Per. Ton
Platinum: 0.8 - 8.9 Ounces Per. Ton
Iridium: 0.4 - 8.6 Ounces Per. Ton
Palladium: 0.3 - 4.3 Ounces Per. Ton

Iron and Silicon show in the highest amounts. Sometimes 200 Ounces Per. Ton for Iron.

A lot of the ore is sandstone and barite. Easily crushed.
Seems like typical desert geology, aside from the high Au, Ag, and Pt amounts.

This seems like high-grade ore to me. Almost unheard of levels of Pt at times. It seems that if the gold isn't there, the Pt is. If the Pt or Iridium isn't there the gold is. So either way it's like a grab bag of goodies each scoop he takes!

I'd like to process the ore for gold first, then platinum/iridium secondly, then it can be set aside for silver content processing at a later date.

Thank you!


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## Harold_V (Jan 3, 2008)

Can you tell me the assay method?

The very idea that platinum is showing up in such high numbers should make anyone take a second look at what's really going on. It's no secret that the US is not known for platinum deposits of any particular value. I'd find it strange that a private individual has managed to do what huge corporations can't do---even from space, with advanced technology, which is to discover viable deposits of metals that have, thus far, escaped more than a century of exploration. 

The sands of southwestern deserts in the US all show traces of gold, silver, platinum and palladium. Traces, however. Nothing in significant amounts. It all could be related to the disaster that occurred 65 million years ago. 

Ores bearing an ounce/ton gold are considered high grade. Many gold operations are currently recovering 1/10 oz/ton and making money----even when gold was much lower in price. It's all a matter of handling enough tonnage at a reasonable cost. As I said, these things are usually beyond the scope of the home processor. The logistics of setting up an operation are such that the average guy doesn't have a prayer. Permitting, alone, can take years. 

Harold


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not sure if I've got the terminology correct here.

I believe plasma and icp.


I'm not sure if those terms help.

What should I do to start processing this stuff?

Should I go for Pt first? Au first?

All at once?

How would you process material like this? Would you give me an explanation on what you'd do? Given the current data that you've read in this post.

Thanks for the replies. I also understand your skepticism as I'm sure it comes for a healthy amount of retained wisdom gained from your experiences in PM recovery and refining.


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## aflacglobal (Jan 3, 2008)

Welcome to the forum Nugget.


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the welcome.


Anybody have any suggestions yet on a process yet?


Thanks!


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## Irons (Jan 4, 2008)

Don't try to extract it yourself. Set up a concentrator and ship the concentrate to a refinery that has the proper technology to extract the values.
Platinum group extraction from ores is something for the pros to tackle.

The Stillwater Palladium mine buys recycled auto catalyst and adds it to their smelter feed. They can probably do the same for your material. Send them a sample and ask them if they are interested. If they aren't, it's probably not worth bothering with unless you can get a lot of money to set up a plant.

Stillwater doesn't refine their ore, the just produce concentrates that get sent to hreaeus or matthey for refining. If they don't think it's practical then it's something you should reconsider as well.


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## ChucknC (Jan 4, 2008)

You are extremely limited in your choices.

1)Flotation. Works extremely well, but the chemicals are expensive and some are potetioally toxic.

2)Cyanide. One of the most effective leaches known. It is simple to nueralize with bleach. The main problem is it is hard to come by and the regulations are outrageous.

3)Acid and Alkalai Leaches. Work well, but the costs are prohibative.

4)Gravity methods. A shaker table or sluice are extrmrmly effective when setup and designed correctly. These would be the primary methods to concentrate the values to a workable amount by elliminating all the less valuble junk first. Below 200 mesh or if the values are complexed, the gravity methods are ineffective.

5)Direct Melting. A very inefficient process that starts with melting the values into a mass then chemically recovering them. Like I said, very inefficient.

6)Mercury. If you don't have the proper setup or are nervous about using merc. don't.

7)Sell to a processor. This is probably your best bet. Sell the ore to a respected and reputable processor or refiner. ALWAYS check refrences.

As a small scale miner, these are the only choices I see for you. Now if you were working an ore that was in the pounds per ton range, it'd be diffrent.

Chuck


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## usaman65 (Jan 4, 2008)

how bout mercury???

kev


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Jan 4, 2008)

As for the shaker table method it seems like a logical step towards concentration, however, I think the ore is more complex than that.

Cyanide seems effective. How much gold can cyanide actually dissolve? 

How much cyanide would it take to have 1oz, or 1Lb dissolved?

The cyanide can be neutralized by bleach. What is the compound that's left over and how toxic is that?


Also, I'm working with more than just gold too. Silver and Pt groups are also commonly found in this ore.

I'd like methods that allow me to concentrate then recover the gold and platinum then perhaps set aside the ore for silver processing at a later date.

Forgive me but I have no real experience in this field.


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## Harold_V (Jan 5, 2008)

Please take my advice and have the ore assayed by the fire method. If values shows in a fire assay, they can be recovered by conventional methods. If they don't show-----run like the wind. Some of the trick methods being employed today are the tools of crooks, who use bogus results to encourage investors. They drive a nice BMW, which is paid for by the fools that believe their nonsense. None of this may make much sense to you right now, but if you follow it long enough, you may come to understand what I'm talking about. 

Cyanide will dissolve an ounce of gold per ounce of cyanide, but that's assuming there are no cyanicides present. Sulfides do not lend themselves well to cyanide processing, and the platinum group metals are not recovered at all by that method. 

You could expect reasonable recovery of gold with cyanide, and perhaps silver, depending on how finely divided each metal is, and how finely the ore is crushed. Gold readily dissolves in cyanide, as does silver, but the presence of other elements may make them less than amenable to the process. Cyanide is best used very dilute, at which time it doesn't react with base metals. 

In my limited experience, I had to use bromine to oxidize the one gold ore I processed with cyanide. It was way different from that which you described-----the head assay ran over 300 oz/ton in gold. Tailings assayed well under an ounce. 

Harold


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## ChucknC (Jan 5, 2008)

As a small scale miner myself, I'll tell you right now harold is absolutely correct. You really need to have the assay done to be sure what you have. If you don't, you have no idea where to start.

One of the byproducts of using bleach to nuetralize cyanide is sodium nitrate. Common fertilizer. Still if you go this route, I'd advise you to get some hands on training before you just jump in cold.

I'm not sure how you'd go about getting the PGM's. Pt and it's associated metals have such a high melting point that it's hard to say which way to go.

Chuck


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## Harold_V (Jan 5, 2008)

ChucknC said:


> I'm not sure how you'd go about getting the PGM's. Pt and it's associated metals have such a high melting point that it's hard to say which way to go.
> 
> Chuck



Assuming the material was processed by smelting, the PG metals would be recovered by dissolution by other elements in the molten state. One need not achieve the melting point of the values to do so. Lead, for example, will dissolve gold, even when the temperature of the lead is barely 1,000° F. 

Harold


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## Harold_V (Jan 5, 2008)

NuggetHuntingFool said:


> Thanks for the replies. I also understand your skepticism as I'm sure it comes for a healthy amount of retained wisdom gained from your experiences in PM recovery and refining.



Understand that I'm not trying to wet on your charcoal. It's just that pretty much everything you've said so far makes very little sense. It sounds more like someone is promoting someone with grandiose claims that have nothing to do with reality. 

Kennecott Copper, in Utah, processes huge amounts of ore to recover copper, which is the prime objective. I used to live in Utah and am well acquainted with the operation. They have, literally, moved a mountain in the more than 100 years of operation. Along with the copper, they recover a large number of other elements, including gold, silver, platinum and palladium. Many other exotic elements are also produced. 

My reference books are all in storage, but to give you an idea of the ratio, lets assume that they produce 100,000 ounces of gold annually. By contrast, they may produce only 5,000 ounces of platinum. 

The point is, nowhere in the continental US is there a significant deposit of platinum-------yet you're telling us that you have it in abundance. 

I don't think you're lying to us-----but I do think that you're not being told the truth. The problem is to discover what the truth is. 

Keep close watch on who's providing the information to your family member-----and look to see how they can profit by promoting what is likely nothing more than BS. A fire assay, like I've already recommended, can answer a lot of questions. DO NOT allow others to pick the assay source. Make it one of your own choosing, and do not disclose the source to anyone until you have an assay report in hand. 

Pursuing this advice can save you one hell of a lot of money and heartache. 

Harold


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Jan 5, 2008)

Supposedly those figures I posted are averages from 4 or 5 assay reports.


I guess I'll have to see when I receive the ore samples.


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## Harold_V (Jan 5, 2008)

Part of what troubles me is that the reports are not consistent. You mentioned that when one element is low, the other is high. I'd be more inclined to think that the person running the "assay" is screwing up than you have such a wide swing of concentrations. That's particularly troubling when the "assay" leans high on platinum. 

In spite of all the hype you are receiving, the harsh reality is that if an ore doesn't fire assay, it usually doesn't produce, either. I'm of the opinion that's the case because the metal isn't there. 

Way too many charlatans have infiltrated the prospecting field, often doing nothing more than providing false information to keep prospectors coming back again and again, paying for worthless "assays". 

Be suspicious of anything and everything, and include in that everybody. Even your family member. All too many are blinded by the prospect of instant wealth and riches, and will gladly accept words of support from any source. They truly want to believe they have values, even when the evidence is overwhelming that they do not. 

Trust me on this one. It's one hell of a lot easier to say to your friends and acquaintances, "I was wrong-----he really does have the metals", than to find enough ways to apologize to family for having lost all you are worth by being stupid. 

Luck-------I hope you folks really have the values, but I'm not willing to bet that you do.

Harold


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 5, 2008)

An adjunct to this thread. Read "The Big Con" (especially "The Pitch"), halfway down in the very 1st post. I wrote it several years ago, on another forum.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=395&highlight=lie


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## aflacglobal (Jan 5, 2008)

I still love that story every time i see it. 
:wink: :wink: :wink:


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Jan 5, 2008)

Well believe me, if we're being scammed. I'll know it.

This is the reason I'm turning to this forum. People like yourselves have a lot of experience in this field.

I'm hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.

I guess I'll just have to see what some members here have to say about the ore when the time comes. If it does work out, then we stand to make great money, however, I won't ask anybody to hold their breath because I'm not holding mine.

Good information on those posts too.

I'm not sure how reputable these companies are, but here are some of the assay report laboratories.


Rogers Research
Mckenzie
Iseman consulting

Some of the samples were fire assayed too. I've read some reports this morning.

Thanks


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## ramalyus (Jan 17, 2008)

As a person that sells and trade gold and refine gold all my life what you are saying does not exist and dont waste your time.Regular ore runs in the niebourhood of .2-.5 oz of gold per ton you are speaking of numbers that do not exist.If you are right and they do exist just smelt the ore .Cynide would leave the platinum behind, concentrators would loose some of the sulfides ,a good smelters would cost you $700us per ton and would take 8 hours with 99.54% recovery.


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## Baja Bob (Jan 18, 2008)

You might need more information about your ore, size of the gold particles, what minerals are in the ore and in what combinations. So other things you'll have to know is road access, water consumption, power availability, power consumption. You won't get it all with a one pass hydrometalurgy, smelting might work and even then you'll have to drop the pms one at a time. Baja Bob


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 18, 2008)

Baja Bob,

Welcome aboard. I also just saw your name on the Electroplating 101 forum.


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## Irons (Jan 18, 2008)

Prospectors have a tendency to High-grade a deposit when ore sampling. More often than not, values are concentrated within a narrow 'vein' and just taking a highly concentrated sample does not give an accurate view of what the recovery would be in a real mining scenario. It may not be intentional, it's just human nature.

I noticed that Barite was mentioned as one of the constituents of the ore. Besides having a very high specific gravity which would raise hell with gravimetric separations, Barium will form a complex with Platinum in solution.

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/compounds/text/Pt/C4Ba1H8N4O4Pt1-13755323.html

platinum barium tetracyanoplatinate (II)

* Formula as commonly written: Ba[Pt(CN)4].4H2O
* Hill system formula: C4Ba1H8N4O4Pt1
* CAS registry number: [13755-32-3]
* Formula weight: 508.536
* Class: complex cyanide

Synonyms

* platinum barium tetracyanoplatinate (II)
* barium cyanoplatinate
* barium platinocyanide
* barium tetracyanoplatinate (II)
The Barite deposits i've seen tended to form barite nodules (roses). Some PGM deposits also tend to do likewise with darker 'nodules' that have a higher PGM concentration than the surrounding rock.


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Jan 18, 2008)

Jeez you guys are friggin' smart!

Okay the ore is mainly basilica and iron.


The ore seems to have been created by a hydrothermal event.

You know that super-heated water can dissolve heavy metals.

I think the ore is trapped inside the basilica and was deposited there as the water cooled. The water could no longer hold on to the minerals.

Not exactly sure though... I'm not God!


Thanks again all.


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## Baja Bob (Jan 18, 2008)

have you googled Carlin deposits, some are in Nevada.
they might have some information you
can use. Baja Bob


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