# recovery of silver from karat gold, what happened?



## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

I refined 70 grms of 14 kt gold I inquarted gold with 90 grms of silver 3 grms short of proper amount 93 grms. I didn't want gold to crumble. I used sterling silver from jewelry and candle sticks. Nitric leach was done 2 times everything looked ok. Then proceeded to Aqua Regia. Solution did looked a little green after Aqua Regia. But I wasn't to concerned at the time because I wash powder then refined a second time. Recovered silver using copper when I went to melt silver for my own use this is the results I got.


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

Gold powder and stannous chloride results


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

Stannous chloride test was done with piece of silver ? I recovered I put small piece in 22kt testing solution to see if there was gold but it negative. But to me looks like there is gold. Any help or suggestions an I would be very grateful.


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 22, 2016)

In the first post, I'd guess you have some copper in your cemented silver. Wear gloves!

Second post, I'm not sure what the stannous test is supposed to show us. The gold looks good.

The third post I just don't understand at all.

Dave


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

Sorry for the confusion the second post was dissolving the silver in 22kt testing solution to see if any gold was present an it tested negative. The third post was dissolved silver doing stannous chloride test. And yes do wear gloves when I process. But I should wear them 100% of the time even when testing solution.


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

So dissolved copper will give that look to silver? I have used copper before to cement silver an i never saw that. Thank you for time and help


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 22, 2016)

FrugalRefiner said:


> In the first post, I'd guess you have some copper in your cemented silver. Wear gloves!
> 
> Second post, I'm not sure what the stannous test is supposed to show us. The gold looks good.
> 
> ...



Dave, i believe he is saying that he digested some of the melted silver he tried melting. Then proceeded to test with stannous to confirm/deny gold present in the cemented/melted silver.

What i dont get, is why there is no silver chloride if digested with AR.
Or, if he digested said melted silver with just nitric, why he would think gold is in solution for a positive result anyways :shock: 

But, I don't know if i understood him correctly either.

Galaxy?


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 22, 2016)

Galaxy419 said:


> And yes do wear gloves when I process.


Your fingers say otherwise.


Galaxy, I'm not trying to pick on you. My message is really to everyone else who reads this thread. Wear Gloves!

Dave


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

I didn't use nitric I used 22kt gold testing solution that jewelers use. I know probably not the best way.


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

I totally understand an agree with you on the gloves no worries.


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 22, 2016)

OK, I think I understand. In the third post, why do you think there is gold. You dissolved some cemented silver in some 22K test solution and got a greenish solution? Am I right?


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

I didn't use nitric I used 22kt gold testing solution that jewelers use. I know probably not the best way.


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

I thought there might be gold with my cemented silver because when I melted it an an poured melt into water the result was what I posted in first picture and I have cemented silver before with copper and never saw what I posted in first picture.


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

But stannous chloride says otherwise. Just don't understand the color of the silver. Guess I better start reading Hokes again. And see what I might have done wrong or missed.


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

I apologize for some of my post not making sense I thought I might have gold mixed with the silver I cemented with copper because of the color of the silver not because of the color of the solution after I put silver in 22kt testing solution. But stannous chloride says otherwise. So if I understand correctly the copper I used to cement my silver with was mixed in with my silver powder? And when I melted it the result was what I posted in my first picture.


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 22, 2016)

I think I understand now.

Cemented silver can be very pure, or not so much. I've gotten some of each. If the silver came from inquarting karat gold, dissolving in nitric acid, then cementing with copper, it is very unlikely there will be any gold there. Nitric acid actually does dissolve gold, but it is in such a tiny amount it is insignificant.

Remember that karat gold just means there is supposed to be a certain percentage of gold in the alloy. There is virtually no control over what the other metals can be. Anybody can buy a 14K stamp on eBay, make up their own alloy, cast a piece of jewelry and stamp it 14K.

Dave


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 22, 2016)

Thank you Dave for your time an expert advice! Robert


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 22, 2016)

I'm far from an expert! The colors on your silver look just like the "toning" often seen on old silver coins/flatware/hollowware/etc. If you heat a piece of copper pipe or wire and let it cool, you'll see those same colors from the copper oxides that form.

A lot of factors can affect how clean cemented silver is. Concentration of the solution, other metals in solution, amount of excess nitric, size/type of the copper used to cement, any copper exposed to atmosphere, the alignment of the stars...  

That's just my guess.

Dave


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## Geo (Sep 22, 2016)

Gold test solution is just varying concentrations of aqua regia. AR will not dissolve silver unless it's heated or at least not to any noticeable extent.


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 23, 2016)

Geo I did heat test solution


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## nickvc (Sep 23, 2016)

The granulated silver looks like the result of not enough rinses on your silver cement and the nitric fuming during your melt depositing base metal nitrates onto the surface of the silver. If you are using it to inquart more karat scrap I wouldn't worry too much about a little gold or the colour of the silver it will clean up next batch, if you process white gold alloys and the silver starts to look a slight grey colour it could be PGMs for which you need to run a silver cell or dissolve it all in nitric convert the silver to chloride filter and then cement the PGMs out.


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## upcyclist (Sep 23, 2016)

Silversmiths call that staining on your silver shot firescale. Specifically, it's copper oxides, so your cemented silver has some copper contamination as others have said. One way to avoid some of that contamination is to remove your cementing copper, then add a bit more nitric to your solution. It will preferentially dissolve any remaining copper before it digests your silver (see _Reactivity Table of Metals_).

Like they said, though--if you're just going to use it for future inquartation, don't worry about it. Silver is preferred for inquartation by most, but really it's about having one quarter gold, three quarters more-reactive-than-gold 

Oh, one last question:



Galaxy419 said:


> I refined 70 grms of 14 kt gold I inquarted gold with 90 grms of silver *3 grms short of proper amount 93 grms. I didn't want gold to crumble.*


What? Are those two things connected, that you thought 3 more grams of silver would make your gold crumble? What do you mean by crumble?


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 23, 2016)

Sorry poor choice of words I didn't want finely divided particles.


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## upcyclist (Sep 23, 2016)

Ah, okay. I don't think a 2% change in silver content will change that either way, and actually you DO want finely divided particles after the nitric leach. They're easier for the AR to digest.

--Eric


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## Galaxy419 (Sep 23, 2016)

Thank you for the advice I still have a lot to learn


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## nickvc (Sep 24, 2016)

In honesty I never worried about the gold from inquarting been in powder form as in that state it's easier to remove virtually all the base metals and silver, if a little powder is poured over when rinsing or pouring off the nitric simply put it through a filter later and run it with another batch, this is especially true if you are processing your own material or an assayed bar, you haven't lost the gold its there to be processed later.


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