# TV Show Casting!



## michaeldiscovery (Feb 5, 2014)

Hi!
My name is Michael and I work in development at Discovery Studios. We are the production arm of Discovery Communications and create TV shows for all our networks. 

I am working on a new show about Gold and would like to talk with you about the home gold scene. 

I'm looking for anyone who searches for scrap and refines it. I would love to find someone who uses chemicals to get the gold from e-waste. 

If you're in the Rust Belt (PA, OH, IN, KY, WV) please introduce yourself... but I'll be happy to hear from anyone and everyone.

I can be reached via email at [email protected]

I look forward to chatting.

Michael


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## michaeldiscovery (Feb 5, 2014)

And no... this isn't spam. That is why I included my work email (with an @Discovery.com address). I'm happy to chat on the board, via PM, or via personal email - but no matter how it's done I want to chat and hear your story!

I look forward to talking with some of you.

Best,

Michael


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## necromancer (Feb 5, 2014)

this show should get every tom & harry looking for ewaste


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## resabed01 (Feb 5, 2014)

Even more than it is now?

This last year my e-waste feedstock has pretty much dried up for this very reason.


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## moose7802 (Feb 5, 2014)

Glad I'm not the first to say something but I hope no one goes through with another show.


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## Smack (Feb 5, 2014)

Another show that essentially teaches everyone how to do what you do to make your living, and they will (I'm sure) be hoping that this will be an ego driven casting process so they can get over by not having to pay the cast like it was on the show Top Shot.


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## moose7802 (Feb 5, 2014)

Exactly! :evil: I don't make a living from this but I enjoy it and don't see there being much stuff to refine anymore if everyone and their brother knows about it and starts collecting material and taking it out of my hands. 

Tyler


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## denim (Feb 5, 2014)

As if it isn't tough enough already. I have no interest in showing the world - and every 'non ecology-first' moron out there- how to make it even harder for me to practice my craft. No thanks!


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## moose7802 (Feb 5, 2014)

I think we need a like button for post's :lol: 

Tyler


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## JHS (Feb 5, 2014)

Imagine how many new members it would bring.


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## denim (Feb 5, 2014)

JHS said:


> Imagine how many new members it would bring.



Yes, and imagine the field day Harold would have with all the newbies demanding instant knowledge.


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## sharkhook (Feb 6, 2014)

I can't help but wonder how would you condense all the years of knowledge the people like Harold, Lou, GSP and many others on this forum have into a one or two hour T.V. show? How could it be done even in a season show? I don't see it happening, without someone getting hurt or worse.


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## jeneje (Feb 6, 2014)

The *ONLY* people who will benefit from a show like this is the producers and TV station with their advertising. These type of shows have no business being aired for the public to see. The processes needed to extract the precious metals are not only *Dangerous* but, misused, impact the environment. If, shows like this are allowed to continue being made and produced, we as home refiner and hobbyist will not be able to obtain the chemicals we need. 

For example, Lye, you cannot go into a Home Depot or a hardware store and ask for lye and be able to by it. It is not sold under that name anymore. Unless you know it as Sodium Hydroxide and where to find it in the store, you are S-O-L! 

HCL now come in two forms to the public a weak solution sold as GO-GREEN and in 31.45% back in the pool area. If you have not studied this hobby, you will have no ideal which one to buy. Then when you go to check out, you have to produce your driver lic. before they will sell it to you, and you are only allowed so much.

Yeah, just what we need another show :evil: There, are other reasons why a show like this should not air but, they get into the board rules so I cannot go into them. 

Wake-up!!! Before this hobby too, is a thing of the past.

Ken
edited; Just my two cents here, I think the contact infor link should be removed from his post. I don't think the GRF promotes TV shows, instead they promote helping the home refiner.


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## kurtak (Feb 6, 2014)

I "used to" to buy storage unit's (lockers) - this was before they came out with the "Locker Wars" show --- when I would go to auctions there would be 12 to 20 people at them & they had all been at it long enough to know the real value of what they were looking at & biding on so you could pick the units up at reasonable price & expect to make 2 or 3 times what you paid with the "luck" of getting the "occasional" one that really had something in it (I one time bought a unit for a dollar & got about $5,000 out of it)

Then the show came out - then there was 100 or more people showing up - they saw the show & they were all sure that there was a gold brick in the bottom of every unit they looked at - so they were biding stupid crazy - paying 2 or 3 times what the value you could expect to get out of them (because they were sure there was a gold brick hid inside)

My point is that "The Show" completely ruined it because all of a sudden "everybody" wanted to get in on the act

You think YouTube, Ebay etc. is a bad reflection on what we do (with all the B.S. info out there) this TV program will make it even worse - count on it

sad thing is - it may well happen - because good chance they will find someone that just can't wait to be "The Star" of the show

Kurt


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## JHS (Feb 6, 2014)

IF it airs,i hope they will mension ebay,so i can unload a ton of low grade scrap.
it will drive the price of all the junk we have.
john


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## kurtak (Feb 6, 2014)

Should I send this to Michael as an Email ?  


Hi Michael

Please, Please, Please - DO NOT - produce a show based on Hobby Home Refiners that recover & refine PMs (precious metals) from E-waste --- this is a VERY specialized field that very few people can really grasp the knowledge & understanding of to do safely when it comes to the concerns of impacting the health of them selves - the people around them & the environment in general

EVERYTHING - we do involves toxic & hazardous substances that include fumes, gases, solutions,& chemicals --- ALL of these things are VERY dangerous things to the person that tries working with them on limited knowledge --- & there is no way you can possibly produce a show that would provide anything other then a limited understanding of the over all process - but what your show would do is inspire tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people to attempt doing this at home where they WILL put them selves, the people around them & the environment at risk

Because of the HIGH danger level involved in every step involved in these processes to recover & refine the PMs from E-waste - this is something that should not be aired on public TV like other shows such as Locker Wars or Pawn Stars or Moonshiners, or the logging shows or other so called "Reality TV"

On the Gold Refining Forum we are VERY adamant about new members taking the time - MUCH TIME - to research the things involved in these processes before they even start to ask questions - let alone start to try doing anything - & that is due to the high danger/hazard level of what we do!!!

Those that come to the forum with ether a know it all attitude &/or an un-willingness to spend much time doing there own research are quickly banned from the forum because as a group we have all long ago decided that we are not going to help people hurt them selves!!!

I would like to suggest Michael that instead of looking at producing a show based on Home Hobby Refining/How To Do IT --- that in stead you look at producing a show based on - Refining/How Its Done -by talking with some of the large companies in the industry --- a series maybe of different companies that handle different PM containing metals --- one on a company that handle platinum group metals from catalytic converters - one on a company that handles ores - one on a company that handles E-waste & one a company that handles recycled jewelry --- such a program would show "How Its Done" - rather then a limited information "how TO do it" program that will only inspire people to try something very dangerous at home with limited knowledge 

You can't possibly cover everything you need to know about this in a TV program - not even as a program series

Thank you for the interest though & I hope you will take this to heart so you don't put something out there that could end up hurting a lot of people

Kurt - Member of the Gold Refining Forum


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## kurtak (Feb 6, 2014)

JHS said:


> IF it airs,i hope they will mension ebay,so i can unload a ton of low grade scrap.
> it will drive the price of all the junk we have.
> john



Yap - but that means cost to get it will also go up!!!

People will think their $5 scrap computer is worth $50

Kurt


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## rickbb (Feb 6, 2014)

I could help out, but I'm not a screaming hot head jerk so they would never put me on TV. 

Funny how calm, careful people never get on those shows. :roll: 

And as others have mentioned, e-scrap is drying up due to you(-don't-know-squat-)tube already. It will disappear completely after this "reality" show airs.

Sigh, time to scratch off another home based potential income hobby.


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## resabed01 (Feb 6, 2014)

I've been know to refine a time or two at home so I guess that qualifies me as a "home refiner". I've been studying this craft for several years and still only know the basics.
As a home refiner I am very careful about who knows my activities and for good reason too. Many of these reasons have been discussed at length on the forum... security of myself and family...unwanted attention from ill-informed authorities or eco-tards. There are so many aspects of refining the average person watching TV wouldn't understand.
I plan my recovery and refining activities so they draw the least amount of notice from those around me. I'm very careful with waste disposal, my chemicals are locked up when not in use and ensure spills/drips are contained.

Why on earth would I want to turn the spotlight onto myself? I don't think anybody that takes this craft half serious would.


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## bmgold2 (Feb 6, 2014)

Just like everyone else here I am against broadcasting such a show. My personal thought is that it would be about the same as broadcasting a show about all the bathtub drug chemists out there. It would cause a lot of people to get hurt trying to use chemicals and processes that they are not set up to do safely trying to get some "easy money". Also, there is the waste that would be produced and likely poured down the drain or on the ground because it isn't cheap to properly dispose of toxic byproducts.

More important (to our group) is that it would likely bring about even more regulations and make getting any chemicals at all more expensive and possibly just plain impossible without permits, licenses, and bonds. For the general public, this might also mean that they can't go to the local store and purchase drain cleaner or other household chemicals but would be forced to call a professional plumber who would then be forced to charge even more than they already do because of the new regulations.


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## michaeldiscovery (Feb 6, 2014)

All,

Thank you for taking the time to write your concerns on this message board - and please know that I have read and taken seriously all the responses and PM's. 

At this point there is no show. I am doing research into the world of e-waste gold removal, home refining, small scale refining (using outside refineries), and removing precious metals from recyclable sources. I believe that the key to success in anything is research and that is why I posted this message. Not to learn - and give away - your trade craft but to learn from those of you doing it and see what it's all about. This is not about teaching the public how to mix chemicals to extract metals nor is it about giving away the secrets to your sources. This is about showing an interesting world with unique characters. 
I understand that many may not like the idea of exposing this world on television but someone is going to do it and I would rather it be me than another production company or network. And the reason is, I want to do it with respect- for both the people involved and the environmental concerns.

Also - please note, I'm not just looking for the home chemist... I'm looking for anyone who is finding and refining gold from "waste." I would be interested in chatting with anyone who goes to a local refinery to finish their process.

In conclusion, I am always open to hearing your thoughts - especially your concerns. Please know that this is not about teaching the public the process or encouraging irresponsible behavior, it's about showing how a few smart individuals are surviving in a tough economy. 

If you have any thoughts, would like to participate, or offer helpful information please feel free to respond to this post publicly or via Private Message.

Michael


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## moose7802 (Feb 6, 2014)

I hear the hounds already. :twisted: 

Tyler


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## Smack (Feb 6, 2014)

michaeldiscovery said:


> All,
> 
> In conclusion, I am always open to hearing your thoughts - especially your concerns. Please know that this is not about teaching the public the process or encouraging irresponsible behavior, it's about showing how a few smart individuals are surviving in a tough economy.
> 
> Michael



Also in conclusion this IS our concern and though you may say all you want about how it's not about teaching, anything one sees can be learned from. Knowing human nature, just the process of airing the show will open some people's eyes to the fact, where they were once blind. I chose, on my behalf to keep them blind.


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## moose7802 (Feb 6, 2014)

The only people I see trying to get on this show are the ego driven one's that want to be on TV and don't care about this hobby at All!!! Enough said :evil: 

Oh yeah and I'm new to this hobby but I have made some good friends and this is a tight nit community and I like it. All I can see is this show being bad for anyone who truly enjoys this and makes a little money once in awhile. I really hope whoever PM's you takes a good look inside before going through with a show.

Tyler


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 6, 2014)

> I am doing research into the world of e-waste gold removal, home refining, small scale refining (using outside refineries)...
> 
> ...someone is going to do it and I would rather it be me than another production company or network...
> 
> ...I'm not just looking for the home chemist... I'm looking for anyone who is finding and refining gold from "waste."


It seems to me that the show you're describing has already been done. Watch National Geographic's "Meltdown".

Dave


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## JHS (Feb 6, 2014)

This is not a post about refiners helping one another.
This is a post about commercial exploitation of the forum.
As such this post should be removed.in my opinion.


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## resabed01 (Feb 6, 2014)

There is no secret in this craft, all the information is here in black and white for anybody to search and read. I, myself, couldn't care less if the information is shared or who reads it. That's not the point.

The point is, some of us are urban miners. Digging for gold in e-scrap. And, as the miners did back in the 1800s, we too would like to keep our mines location a secret.

The problem is, there is a type of person that focuses on the goal, not the journey. These type of people are in abundance it seems. They don't have the patience or self discipline to take the time to learn the proper way to extract PMs from scrap or deal with the waste after. That's if they get that far without poisioning themselves and those around them.
Gold fever can cause people to do irrational things, take shortcuts, cheat or steal... it's no different in recovery and refining.


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## MysticColby (Feb 6, 2014)

It seems to me that it depends how much a show like this reveals. There would be a huge difference between "...put the powders in a beaker, add some acids, wait, siphon off the liquid..." and "...mix one part nitric acid and 3 parts hydrochloric acid, aka muriatic acid, to make aqua regia which will dissolve gold..."
Would it be focused on step-by-step how to get gold out of ewaste, or how people are able to get out of ewaste.
either way would produce more refiners and dry up ewaste sources, but one of them would force viewers to do at least some research and make it less likely they will kill themselves and others.


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## michaeldiscovery (Feb 6, 2014)

Again, this is not a show about chemistry or refining. It's about the people searching for gold and PM in unlikely places. It's not an educational show and we will not be giving a lesson on how to refine gold at home.

We're looking for people who do this for real - not just on a commercial level but as hobbyists and on small scale productions. 

I encourage you to contact me if you have concerns or thoughts about this project. Do not rush to judgment. Part of doing research is understanding as much as I can, meeting and talking to as many people as possible, and learning as much of the world as possible. 

I look forward to chatting with anyone who would like to share a bit of information about the world of PM "urban mining"

thank you,

Michael


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## kurtak (Feb 7, 2014)

Michael 

First let my thank you for your interest in what we do here on the GRF & also let me say that Discovery has always be one of my favorite programs to watch along with programs like PBS/NOVA etc. These type programs are very informative & done with real professionalism & good taste --- not really in the same category as the so called "reality shows" (that seem to thrive on B.S. drama) which likely behind the first response fear you are seeing at the start here

And there is good reason for our fear of to much exposure to what we do - the biggest of which is people trying something at home that could VERY much put them, the people around them & the environment at great risk --- As it is - you would not believe how many people we have had come to this forum after watching a YouTube video (done by someone that didn't really know what they were doing) or buying an incomplete &/or even out right wrong instruction manual from someone on E-bay --- Such media is never complete - often wrong & never addresses safety concerns

These people then come here in trouble more often then not asking for help & when we try to get them headed in the right direction all to often they become combative because they don't want to hear that WHAT they did is was all wrong - but rather they want to hear what WENT wrong in what they did --- another words they think they know what they are doing (because they saw it on YouTube or bought the E-bay manual) & they just don't understand what went wrong - & you just can't convince them that doing this is NOT as simple as watch a YouTube video or buy a few page E-bay manual - but to really do this takes MUCH research & study --- So then they think we should become their personal mentors & answer "endless" questions with out take their own time to research/study enough to even know the right questions to ask

YouTube & E-bay with their exposure has caused us enough problems --- then you come along & tell us you would like to expose this to tens of millions more in a Network TV BROADCAST --- so maybe now you can see our concern & why you have received the response you have so far

However - that's not to say there's no flip side to this coin --- I can see a positive side to airing such a program as you propose & Discovery may be the right network if such a thing is going to be aired --- I think you are right Michael - sooner or later - someone is going to air this & I would hate to see it be one of the "Drama Reality TV networks - which would amount to nothing more the YouTube & E-bay reaching millions with drama at center stage in the beat of a heart 

On the other hand - done right - such a program could shed some real & true light on this & help to reduce the wrong & misinformation out there - Here is a short list of positive things I can think of to start with

(1)Yes there are PMs in electronics (& other things you throw away)
(2)there's not as much as you think (no you are not going to get rich quick & easy tearing apart a couple computers)
(3)but yes they should be recycled by responsible experienced recyclers (includes hobby recyclers)
(4) no its not a quick &/or easy path to riches
(5)learning to do it takes MUCH study & research
(6)to do it takes a fair investment for equipment, supplies & chemicals
(7)doing it can be vary dangerous (if you don't know what your are doing)
(8)no you can't do it in an apartment, in your kitchen, or basement etc.
(9)watch out for scams that say other wise (& scams in general)

Yes fellow forum members I think Michael is right when he say's - sooner or later someone is going to air this - the question is - will it be DRAMA Joe - or real refiners :?: 

Kurt


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 7, 2014)

I make my whole living off recycling E-waste. Full time 365 days a year. Sometimes there are 18 hour days, some days we don't step foot in the facility. Everything from huge data centers to aunt Jenn's old PC, we do it all. We bring the equipment in, break it down, sort it out, and sell everything to local recyclers and refiners. We have recycled millions of pounds of E-waste, 18 years of it.

We do not refine anything. Nope, nothing. Several reasons come into play. First, I don't feel I want to invest all the time it would take to learn how to do it correctly and safely. Second, I make a pretty good living doing just what I am doing. I'm not rich by no means, but I live good. Third, I really don't have the time to do it all. It takes about all my time just to keep up with the workload we have.

The reason I say this is to show that even though we don't refine the PM's, there still is good money to be made just doing what we are doing. It's not easy, it's not cheap, and it's not for everyone. Between trucks, insurance, fuel, labor, and all the other overhead, it's work. The last show NG had on called "Meltdown" was a joke. Showed some guys out buying up stuff, a few seconds of them taking it apart, maybe a second or two of the actual process of refining it, most time was spent on the assay and the "Big payout". Laugh! The "profits" we unrealistic to say the least. 

I don't have a problem with Discovery doing a series on this type of work. I just hope that if the program does come to be, that they would show how much time is required to learn the methods and reactions. How much work and scrap it takes to make a gold or silver button.And that they will present it for what it really is, a lot of work for what little you get.


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## Platdigger (Feb 7, 2014)

Well said Silver, and I agree with it all except,
I will have to side with some of the others as to "no show" would be even better.
Which after thinking about it, you most likely feel the same.
If there had to be a show, they should include a segment on what happens if this stuff gets shipped overseas.


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## kurtak (Feb 7, 2014)

silversaddle1 said:


> The last show NG had on called "Meltdown" was a joke.



silversaddle - was that the show were they show some guy that recovered the platinum from spark plugs - I ask because I didn't see it but a friend was telling me about it - from what he told me about it - yes it sounded like a joke


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 7, 2014)

kurtak said:


> silversaddle1 said:
> 
> 
> > The last show NG had on called "Meltdown" was a joke.
> ...



Yes, that was one episode. There was some things that seemed truthful on the show, but a lot of it was, well, IDK!!!


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## kurtak (Feb 8, 2014)

silversaddle1 said:


> kurtak said:
> 
> 
> > silversaddle1 said:
> ...



That's the problem with it - whether its YouTube - an E-bay short cut manual - or a TV show --- there is always SOME truth - but only enough to inspire people that know nothing to try this & then because they are working on only a fraction of what they need to know the find them selves in trouble or worse end up hurting them selves & or others

That is why for the most part I to am against being a part of anything that is going to promote/inspire others to try something that can/will hurt them

On the other hand - if done right!!! - such a program could help (on a relatively large scale) over come a lot of the BS that's out there - Starting with - yes there is gold in your scrap electronics BUT

(1)no not a lot - it takes tons to get a few oz
(2)no its not a path to quick & easy wealth
(3)no the process is not easy
(4)yes the process can be vary dangerous 
(5)no you can't take short cuts
(6)yes you have to do A LOT of research & study
(7)yes you have to invest money before you see money back
(8) no you can't do it in your apartment, kitchen or basement
(9)etc.

Putting a show together that would show "the truth" about this would take a co-op effort of a fair number of people that really know what they are doing with a fair amount time invested in planning & conditions of what must be aired in the program before the co-op agreed to production --- & as we know time is money & as we know the only place you are going to find a co-op of such people is here

Anything short of that would end up nothing but some clips of some individuals getting their 15 minutes of fame saying - hey look at me & what I can do - & people will go away from watching the show thinking - hey that looked easy - I can do that to --- WRONG

So - the question is - is Discovery willing to pay a co-op for its planning & production time - is Discovery willing to agree to terms set forth by the co-op of what is to be aired - & can you even put the co-op together

What I do know - is that right here on this forum we have the qualified people to make a honest & true depiction of what this is really about - starting at the top with legit refiners & brokers on down the line to legit hobby refiners & scrappers along with an in house attorney to draw up a contract between co-op & Discovery 

Of course thats just my opinion - I've been known to be wrong though

Kurt


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## necromancer (Feb 8, 2014)

having dealt with the producers of a show called "junk raiders" i believe nothing these TV types say, they will exploit you at every chance they get 

i agree this post should be deleted !!!

and i Can Not see Harold sitting on the fence with a electronic shotgun keeping the perspective 1,000,000 new members looking to get rich over night on the single computer they found buried in there garage. 


(Dave C.)


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## moose7802 (Feb 8, 2014)

Very much agree!!! I see no good from another stupid reality drama. That's what it's all about, if you don't have drama you don't have ratings. This will turn into a s#!t show if this show goes through and I see us losing a lot of valuable members because they are sick of the same old questions that are asked time and time again. 

I'm new here and I'm sick of seeing/answering the same old questions. I have studied my butt off and learned a lot without EVER starting a thread with a question I had. The 200 some post's I have are mostly general chat or gallery, some are even answering questions for people, and guess how I am able to answer these question? Because I studied here and it's already here, I typed in the search box and found it on my own. Yes I read through lots of meaningless stuff sometimes to find the answer but it's there. If this show happens this site will be flooded with new members demanding answer's to questions that have already been answered if they would just take the time and read!!! 

Never mind the fact that for a hobbyist refiner like myself, scrap will dry up or be to expensive to get because everyone will keep it themselves or say "hey I saw a show that showed a guy getting gold out of a ram stick just like this, and he got an ounce out of 1 stick so I want $500 a lb" Sorry for the rant but I don't see this show doing the community we already have any good. 

Tyler


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## modtheworld44 (Feb 9, 2014)

I have contacted the OP about this show,so I could hear in his own words what the show is really about.The forum has survived through countless public displays of our craft(refining).There has been so much misinformation spread or put out there on the internet, that we need this chance to try and correct some of it.I myself want the chance to teach it the right way and the chance to show how much work and effort it really takes to get just one gram of refined gold.I've been refining since late 2008 and have yet to break even(I'm getting very close though).I have invested a little over $1,000.00 in this craft and through patients and shear perseverance have finally gotten my total up to $756.00.I know,whats my point? The point is that if Meltdown down didn't break us(with there fakeness),what really makes you think a Discovery channel show will.Micheal has verbally assured me that it will not be fake like Meltdown,and that its not about our chemical process.It's about the character,hunt for materials,the actual time and effort it takes to strip and harvest the materials,and then skip the chemicals and straight to melt and payout.He said they don't want the show to be focused on the melt and payout like Meltdown was,he wants that part to only be about 5-10 minutes at most.Like its already been pointed out,if they don't make the show someone else will and chances are it will lean toward fakeness when that happens.This is my $0.2 cents worth.


P.S If there is any members interested in doing this show can you Please send me a PM.If he can get 5 people within a days travel from each other the shows possible.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44


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## Smack (Feb 9, 2014)

These people are all business, and with that comes contracts and not contracts made up by you but by them and they will remain the controlling party throughout. A verbal assurance is nothing in the real world, they will do or say whatever they think they need to, to get what they want, anything more would mean relinquishing control and that ain't gonna happen brutha. I do agree with your sig line, very fitting.


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## moose7802 (Feb 9, 2014)

All I can say is this is a freakin joke!!!!!!!!!! Nothing good will come of a show. We don't want more people than already have an interest knowing how we get our material. So because you are close to finally breaking even it's OK for you to go on a show and teach how some people of this forum make a living and take money out of their pockets. Yeah good idea. I have only been doing this 6 months and have already made a few grand doing this for fun, but that doesn't give me the right to go on a show and take money out of people's pockets to fill my own. 

Harold or any mod will you please delete this thread. It has nothing to do with helping one another it only has to do with a few trying to benefit from a show and making money for their own. Its already been said it will have no showing of refining and chemicals. So it has no business here.

Tyler


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## modtheworld44 (Feb 9, 2014)

Smack said:


> These people are all business, and with that comes contracts and not contracts made up by you but by them and they will remain the controlling party throughout. A verbal assurance is nothing in the real world, they will do or say whatever they think they need to, to get what they want, anything more would mean relinquishing control and that ain't gonna happen brutha. I do agree with your sig line, very fitting.



Smack

Your right about the contracts,But then again a smart person hires their own lawyers to fine tooth and comb the contract before signing it.If it does not stand up to what was verbally stated then its a no go.Thanks your the first to like it,its a paradox phrase.



moose7802

I am a kind hearted and true person of intention.If I make any money from this,I do intend to make a good donation to our great forum and data base.I'm a very passive person and have said all that needs to be said.I'm glad that you have come this far in so short of a time and hope you continue to profit big.



modtheworld44


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## niteliteone (Feb 10, 2014)

Judas sold out mankind for 30 pieces of silver.
At least he got something of value.
Fiat money for selling out every member here shows how little people care anymore.
All my life I have lived with the motto of "keep your hands out of my pocket and we will get along fine".
I see this show taking money out of the pocket of most members here.

As I said above, at least Judas got something of real value for selling us out :shock: 

PS. Not religious, only as a comparison we all know of. :roll:

edit to add;
Antiques Road Show and Storage wars have already reduced my income to poverty level I wonder how greedy people sleep at night :shock:


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## Harold_V (Feb 10, 2014)

I've been asked to delete this thread, but that's not going to solve the problem perceived by many, be it real, or not. I am neither for nor against the idea. I simply don't want to see this matter fracture the board. 

That being said, throttle back on the comments and just let this thread run its course. It will quickly move out of sight if you stop venting. You've made your positions known. Try to not escalate, as that will serve no real purpose.

The harsh reality is the proposed production can happen, with or without assistance from readers here, and is likely to be more damaging if done from ignorance. 

Harold


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 10, 2014)

It would seem to me that the real issue is starting to come to light here. Yes, safety should be #1, but it's starting to sound more like some members are more worried about what is going to happen to their supply of E-scrap if this show hits the air. Well let me tell you this. I have a friend who has been buying storage lockers for 20 years now. He told us the other day that when all the "locker auction" shows hit, the people attending sales went thru the roof, along with prices. Well now that the Shows have run their course, things are getting back to normal. People have either learned the hard truth or have just lost interest.

I'm not saying that this show would not affect the supply of E-scrap we all depend on. It may, it may not. But one thing is for sure, as long as there is mankind's quest for gold, there will always be interest in how it's obtained.

I think Harold has made the correct choice in allowing the thread to remain. I wish some people from this forum could makeit on the show and maybe help in the production to keep the "wow" factor down to a minimum. Entertain yes, but not to mislead.

If I refined my scrap myself I'd contact the OP myself, but I have nothing to contribute to the idea.


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## kurtak (Feb 10, 2014)

modtheworld44 said:


> The forum has survived through countless public displays of our craft(refining).There has been so much misinformation spread or put out there on the internet, that we need this chance to try and correct some of it. <<< snip >>> the chance to show how much work and effort it really takes to get just one gram of refined gold. <<<snip>>> The point is that if Meltdown down didn't break us(with there fakeness), <<<snip >>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> 
> modtheworld44



modtheworld44 - thanks for seeing my point --- Personally I have - no interest - what so ever - in being on TV so that I can say - hey world look at what I can do & then walk around with my head all swelled up because I got to have my 15 minutes of fame --- & I most certainly would not want to be a part of something wherein I was one part of a random selection of others taking part wherein I had no say in the final product that goes to air --- WHY ??? 

Because the ONLY way you are going to ever see a program that give's a TRUE depiction of what this is all about is if everyone that has a part in it - is on the same page AND those people would have to have a say in what is covered in the show --- It would have to be a co-op effort with the people doing it & the production company dedicated to wanting to put the truth out there

Even then I really have no desire - to be on the show - Though I would take a part in helping with the planning if this could come together with the right people (& we do have those people here on the forum - its just a question of whether or not they have time & interest)

Here is the way I see it ------- right now - there is a HUDGE amount of miss information & down right false information out there --- this is a real problem & it is in fact what is making it hard to get material &/or driving up the cost of getting material

I do this on a large enough scale (although still really as a hobby - but one I squeak a living out of) that I see the truth in what I say on a regular bases 

People bring me boards (often) that they have stripped off 1/2 or more of the values in there attempt to ""get the gold" - AND - then they still think those boards are worth top dollar - & when I ask what they did with the stuff they stripped off the answer is - "I tried to get the gold" --- when I ask what they did the story's are down right scary & of course waste is just dumped --- often I am called to come & get what people have left & I find my self in an apartment, basement, or garage with open containers of chemicals & toxic waste all over the place

I used to be one of those people - that was during the 6 or 8 months I was trying to do it before I found this forum & really learned how to do it

I have had people call me to come & look at what they have & end up losing out on making a deal because it turns out they are already selling on E-bay (& I pay very close to boardsort prices - so I am paying top dollar) they were hoping to sell at E-bay price to someone local so they would not have to deal with E-bay fees & hassles --- I can not compete with E-bay --- in fact I had a guy bring me 2 oz of pins just a few days ago (they were high grade mil/med speck pin's) I offered him a price based on 2 gr/lb - he walked out with his pins feeling insulted & like I was trying to rip him off --- why ? - E-bays says they are worth 10 time there real value

People ask me all the time - "what do you get out of A computer - $50 - $60" --- & that's what they think there old computer is worth --- most of these people are just glad to get ride of it -but that's what they think it is worth - until I educate them

That's just stuff I have personally seen - I have had people that bring me stuff tell me of people they know that tried & failed (meaning more of the above -right here in my area - that I have not seen)

What does that all add up to - I would say about 1000 lbs of material per year lost to failed attempts with the failed attempt dumped down the drain or in the ditch on some country road with the people that failed lucky they did not hurt them self &/or others (& that is just what I see - there's more - in my area I only hear about) and several 1000 lbs more lost to E-bay because I can not compete with E-bay

Now - none of that is really hurting me all that much because I still get enough material to keep my own ball rolling (handled around 15,000 lbs of boards last year) but it would have been nice to add the failed attempts & lost to E-bay stuff to my work

So - it is my opinion that it would be good if something, somewhere, some how could be done to educate the public to the truth & the fact that his is not a path to quick & easy wealth &/or that the stuff is not worth what it sells for on E-bay & that learning to do it takes much research - study & investment.

Is that going to happen - I don't know - I just know that if nothing is done to correct the above problem - the above is only going to get worse because the current ball of false &/or mis-information is going to continue to roll & get bigger - like a snow ball being rolled to get big enough to build a snow man

Again - I have no desire to be on or in the show - but I would certainly put my time into helping put such a show together - provided it was working with the people that could really pull it off - & here is the ONLY place I know of to find those people --- real people with real set ups & real concerns - whether legit business or legit hobby's

Other then that - I will continue to do what I do & do it well & continue to improve on it - with little concern for the YouTube/E-bay/TV Bull you know what - because though it has an impact on me it is small compared to what I have managed to put together in spit of it all 



Kurt


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## kurtak (Feb 10, 2014)

silversaddle1 said:


> It would seem to me that the real issue is starting to come to light here. Yes, safety should be #1, but it's starting to sound more like some members are more worried about what is going to happen to their supply of E-scrap if this show hits the air. Well let me tell you this. I have a friend who has been buying storage lockers for 20 years now. He told us the other day that when all the "locker auction" shows hit, the people attending sales went thru the roof, along with prices. Well now that the Shows have run their course, things are getting back to normal. People have either learned the hard truth or have just lost interest.
> 
> I'm not saying that this show would not affect the supply of E-scrap we all depend on. It may, it may not. But one thing is for sure, as long as there is mankind's quest for gold, there will always be interest in how it's obtained.
> 
> ...



Silversaddle - please note that I underlined your last sentence - I did so because You & what you do is in fact a segment in the truth of all of this --- you & boardsort & Dynamic (Dynamic being the company I broker the stuff I don't process to) are all members of this forum (although you are the only one of those three that is really active) 

Without going into one of my long winded post - let me say that "part" of what the program needs to show is that for MOST people - they are going to be better off selling their stuff to a broker like you &/or to someone that collects & sells to someone like you - because trying to GO FOR THE GOLD in fact requires far more investment in time & money then the average Joe can expect to get out of it trying for the gold at home

Kurt


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## kurtak (Feb 10, 2014)

niteliteone said:


> edit to add;
> Antiques Road Show and Storage wars have already reduced my income to poverty level I wonder how greedy people sleep at night :shock:



niteliteone

I know just what you mean - Pickers - is another show you can add to that list --- go back to my first post in this thread & you will see that I posted how storage wars ruined that very same thing for me - it put me out of that business

But the truth in that is that its because of how the show is presented - not in that the show exist --- another words its because the show is presented in such a way that it leaves people with the impression that EVERY storage locker has a gold brick hidden inside of it that it caused a mad rush of people showing up at auctions for their chance at that gold brick & that was going to make them rich & bring an end to financial troubles

The first few auctions I went to after that show came out was crazy - I watched people buy lockers that had nothing but garbage in them for $200 - $300 & I mean lockers that had already been cleaned out by the person that had stored stuff in it but they left the "garbage" behind --- there wasn't even any junk left in them (junk at least has some value - even if it's just scrap)

What the show did/does not show is ----------

(1) one locker in 100 (or more) MIGHT have a gold brick hiding in it
(2) you have to know & understand the value of selling used stuff
(3)What has & has not resale value
(4)how much work goes into cleaning the unit out -taking it home - unloading it - sorting it out - marketing - & how much you have to haul to the dump to the dump to the dump
(5) that MOST units you are only going to make 2 to 3 times (maybe 4 times) what you paid - after A LOT of work - if you bought based on knowing & understanding the above

So it's not that they did a show about it - rather it's that the show they did - did not give a true depiction - thereby giving people a false impression about it

So yes - that show ruined a business I was in for about 3 years --- I tried going back about a year later but no change

Kurt


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 10, 2014)

One word i dislike is "greedy". 

There is no such thing.

My job as a seller is to make as much money off an item as I can. And I mean in an honest, truthful way. Not by deception or falsehoods, but by finding the right buyer who is willing to pay the best price. That is not greed, that is good business.

As a buyer it's my job to buy something as low as I can. Again in a honest, truthful way. I always let the seller start off the deal with an asking price. It's not my job to educate the seller on what their items may be worth. They may ask too much, they may ask too little, or they may be right on target. I can either pass, buy, or counteroffer. I am not forcing the seller to make a deal, that's his choice. That's not greed either, it's just good business.

Example: We all know here on the forum that Pentium Pro's do not contain a large amount of gold. Going rate from some of the buyers is around $50-60 per pound. Over on E-bay a single PP can bring anywhere from $25.00 to $45.00 each! Now why would a seller sell them anywhere else other that E-bay. Since you do not know what the end user plans on doing with the processor, you can't say they overpaid. 

Look at it from another way. Say I as a buyer just bought up 1000 PP's on E-bay for $35.00 each. Now there or some on here that would laugh me off the forum for overpaying. But what if I just sat on them for a few months and all the sudden something happens to drive the gold prices way up? Say back up to the $1900+ range. Now I sell the PP's for $75.00 each? My small investment has now more than doubled. Greedy?

I point this out to show that not everyone who buys E-scrap on E-bay does so just to refine. There are plenty of newcomers out there who are not yet educated, there always will be. They can be foolish with their money, but they will learn. And there are also plenty of smart people out there who know how to look at things from a different point of view and are able to profit from it. 

There is much more to this business than just refining gold and I hope this show may shed some light on that.


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## bmgold2 (Feb 10, 2014)

I can't see this show actually showing the REAL truth. They will have to pick and choose the parts they show to bring the most viewers. Consider the national gold prospecting shows. In a half hour or maybe an hour you see them digging up a couple pans or buckets of material out of the river and then when they show the clean up ... Look at that! WOW!

Now, go watch some YouTube videos of people going out to the river with their shovels, buckets, sluice box and gold pan. They usually don't show the whole day either but in the end many of them get out the magnifying glass and show you the gold they got from their days work.

Which one is going to convince you to go out looking for gold or join their club? Which one is going to get the advertiser's money?

If you watched a show about getting gold from electronic junk and it showed someone spending days/weeks/months collecting junk then more days tearing it apart and then found out that, after spending hundreds of dollars on chemicals and equipment and a week or month waiting for the base metals to dissolve to make less than minimum wage on your gold, would you want to jump up an go digging through the garbage? What if they showed the bill to get rid of all the non-recycled trash you are left with. What about the jug of toxic waste you need to figure out how to get rid of?

No, it's going to show someone gathering up some old computers, a pile of shiny gold parts, and a button or bar of gold at the end. It will probably show a little bit about actually removing the parts and maybe a bit of the refining process (most likely the melting) but the real time consuming bits will happen between commercials.

I could be wrong and hope I am but in the end it's all about the ratings and the advertiser's money. Maybe they can figure out a way to show the reality of this and still get viewers. Maybe it won't encourage too many people to try it without the proper knowledge and safety equipment. Most likely though, it will cause a lot more people to get ripped off buying stuff with the dreams of striking it rich or people expecting that their trash is worth a lot more than it actually is. Some more people will probably hurt theirself or other people or pollute the environment in an attempt to get the gold like they seen on that show.

I hope anyone considering being on this show is doing everything completely legal and by the book. No slipping under the radar when you've been show on TV doing this stuff. Everybody is going to know what you are doing (or what they think you are doing). Not just the police and IRS but the neighbors too. That guy's got gold in that shed.


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## patnor1011 (Feb 10, 2014)

bmgold2 said:


> I can't see this show actually showing the REAL truth.
> 
> ............
> 
> Not just the police and IRS but the neighbors too. *That guy's got gold in that shed*.




Enough said.


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## Geo (Feb 10, 2014)

The refining community (craft,discipline,art,hobby, or whatever else you want to call it) has always held a certain degree of secrecy. Before the time of mass communication, information was conveyed by oral teachings or written in books. There was a time when this information was considered heresy and being in possession of materials pertaining to it was punishable by death. Many people have made their fortunes with this information but I'm sure that many more have lost everything, including their lives trying to protect it and keep it secret. For some, its not a question of greed more than self preservation. For example, why should I enable more people to undermine my, already stretched and limited, available resources. I'm not opposed to this type of information being public knowledge because I have done my own share of passing along information. If I were asked to participate, I would decline. As it is, I can choose when and where and how much to share on my own. If I were the least bit pressured, even as far as time, thats when my participation would come to an end. My only hope is that whatever the conveyance of information is to the public, that it should be accurate and come with the appropriate safety warnings.


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 10, 2014)

patnor1011 said:


> bmgold2 said:
> 
> 
> > I can't see this show actually showing the REAL truth.
> ...



While I do understand that there are a ton of hobby refiners out there, there are some of us that actually do have secure facilities that we do our work in. I do not hide anything from the IRS, neighbors, or local government. Pretty hard to keep a low profile in a small town when you are always driving thru with truck loads of computer equipment. If someone were to break into my building they would take the tools and other "quick" cash items. Be pretty tough to load out a bunch of PCB's without getting noticed by someone. I always keep a couple of 5 gallon "bait" buckets by the door, full of copper to distract thieves. Chances are they will grab them a run as the alarms go off.

This show has a great potential to show the truth. How do you know it won't? 

Truth?

I had to laugh as I watched "Meltdown" today. Guy buys a pile of crap in a container and pulls out a urn full of dog ashes. WOW! Silver!!! At the melt the urn (about the size of a small coffee pot, maybe) weighed out at 8 pounds melted!!! Oh yeah, I sure believe that. And another guy on the same episode buys a bunch of junk trophies and finds one that is silver. Well he says it won't fit into the furnace so he smashes it down in size with a hammer. Funny thing is as he's smashing this junk up you can clearly see the plating coming off the base metal. What a joke.

But it got worse. In another episode they trophy guy buys a casket because it has "Solid Gold" letters on the lid. OK, not likely, but we'll roll with it. So he pays like $500.00 for this new, unused casket and hauls it to his shop. Now a smart person would just open the lid, unscrew the gold letters, and put the casket up for sale on CL or someplace to be used as a prop. Nope, we have to destroy the casket with sledge hammers to get 3 gold letters off the lid. Really? Not very businesslike now was it?

I would only hope that this new show is more realistic that that joke "meltdown" show was. What a disservice to the public that was. Michael, if you are reading this, maybe you should watch those episodes and see how "NOT" to do your show.


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## patnor1011 (Feb 10, 2014)

Well. Why not real truth?
It is simple, it would be very boring show.


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 10, 2014)

patnor1011 said:


> Well. Why not real truth?
> It is simple, it would be very boring show.



LOL!!!! Yep, can't agree more! While I do enjoy what I do for a living, I can't see it as any more entertaining than most other jobs. But then again, people enjoy watching what other people do for a living. Hell, look at Mike and "Dirty Jobs"! Say that show has done well.


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## moose7802 (Feb 11, 2014)

One big joke!! I hope the show tanks just like meltdown. As it surely will if it's a truthful show on recovery and refining. I'm done with this thread. :evil: :evil: :twisted:


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## kurtak (Feb 11, 2014)

patnor1011 said:


> bmgold2 said:
> 
> 
> > I can't see this show actually showing the REAL truth.
> ...



I have to agree with silversaddle on this one - If I had to worry about EXPOSURE for fear of thieves &/or government authorities I would no longer be doing this because my supply would have dried up in the first year 

This stuff comes from the public when they are done with it & need to get ride of it - exposure is what bring the stuff in - Sure I have a couple of scrap yards & some computer shops that I get my larger loads from but I also tell everyone I can what I do --- That's How I Get My Stuff

All my relatives, friends & neighbors know That's how I get/ got their stuff --- they tell others - so I get more stuff

I have business cards I carry with me - I hand them out as much as I can - I get more stuff

I have 2 scrap yards that don't handle e-scrap - they have cards sitting on their desk to hand people that bring stuff in - I get more stuff

I have several computer shops that hand my cards out (they don't take in stuff - they generate enough of their own) - I get more stuff

Most of the stuff I get from the above public source's I get for free - they are just happy to get rid of it 

I have 2 scrap yards that take stuff in - this is one place I get my truck &/or trailer loads from - I have to pay for this stuff

I have several computer shops - again where I get truck &/or trailer loads from - I pay for this stuff

I have several Joe public scrappers that I get larger lots form - I pay for this stuff

Exposure is how I get my stuff - I guess if I was afraid of exposure - I to would be saying - "no - don't tell anyone - it's hard enough to get stuff"

The reality is that if you don't let what you do be known - you are not going to get stuff --- the stuff is there - & someone is going to get it - & that's the guy that's lets him self be known

At 58 years old the one thing I have learned in life is that its when you hide what you are doing that (1) you have to worry about thieves (because they think you have more then you do (2) you have to worry about the authorities (because your activity is suspicious so your neighbors call the authorities on you to have you checked out (3) you will not grow &/or succeed

Hiding is why drug users & dealers (& other criminals) get busted - there activity is suspicious 

Kurt


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## niteliteone (Feb 11, 2014)

Exposure is also what brings in the unscrupulous members of society.
Every time they air the "Medical Marijuana" shows, all of a sudden the news is full of "Home Invasion" robberies where the target was medical pot growers. Most of the time someone dies in these.
The bad guys watch these shows more than the good guys who actually have jobs
Sometimes things are kept secret for good reasons. How many here have had thieves steal from them :?: 
Now imagine the thieves KNOW you also refine gold :shock: 

That IS what this type of show WILL show the bad guys :shock: 
Now think of your wife and children :shock:


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## patnor1011 (Feb 11, 2014)

Kurt, you talk about totally different kind of exposure.

I am concerned about junkies sitting in front of TV wandering what to do when they see show where somebody unscrew few computers and end up with lump of gold. (refining part will be excluded in show so they show people with screwdriver for few minutes and then lump of gold at the end)

Those junkies will have their Edison moment and will go on the job.


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 11, 2014)

OMG, please, do it for the children! :mrgreen:


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## kurtak (Feb 11, 2014)

patnor1011 said:


> Kurt, you talk about totally different kind of exposure.
> 
> I am concerned about junkies sitting in front of TV wandering what to do when they see show where somebody unscrew few computers and end up with lump of gold. (refining part will be excluded in show so they show people with screwdriver for few minutes and then lump of gold at the end)
> 
> Those junkies will have their Edison moment and will go on the job.



Pat - I understand - especially after the deal we went through a while back with testywolf the guy that tried taking your manuals & other stuff he found on this forum & tried selling it on E-bay as his own copy righted stuff - those types are most certainly out there - but I don't think Discovery is going to give away anybody's full name, town, street address, state & zip code &/or your social security #

They are going to give "general" location west Texas or central Iowa, or southern Ohio or ---------- & most likely a stage name like goldman or scrapper can be used

Kurt


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## niteliteone (Feb 11, 2014)

silversaddle1 said:


> OMG, please, do it for the children! :mrgreen:


How can people have an "Adult" conversation when the immature don't seem to know how to :shock: 
Since the immature have exposed themself I am done with this conversation. :roll:


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## Platdigger (Feb 11, 2014)

Not that we can decide whether this show happens or not, but, perhaps someone who knows how, could set up one of those poll threads were we could vote on it. At least the general opinion of this forum on this matter would be known.
yes?


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 12, 2014)

I guess niteliteone needs to learn what the green "sarcasm" icon means.

I'm pretty sure Harold would agree that this conversation has been nothing but "adult".


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## kurtak (Feb 12, 2014)

Platdigger said:


> Not that we can decide whether this show happens or not, but, perhaps someone who knows how, could set up one of those poll threads were we could vote on it. At least the general opinion of this forum on this matter would be known.
> yes?



If the question in such a poll was --- Do you want to see a TV show done about recovering & refining PMs from E-waste ? ----- I would say NO - absolutely NOT

But that is not the real question at hand here - As Platdigger has pointed out in what I underlined in his above quote - we don't get to decide if there is - or is not going to be a show --- we only get to decide if we want to be a part of it - or not

Michael from Discovery did not come asking us - Do you want to see a show about E-waste PM recovery & refining (yes or no)

Rather he came here letting us know that they are going to do a show & the question is --- Do you want to be a part of it (yes or no)

This show is going to go to air (whether done by Discovery or someone else) --- that means tens of millions of people are going to see it (whether you want them to or not)

That means we have been given the opportunity to make a choice (& there are only 2) they are (as "presented") -----

(1) Let the cast of the show be a random selection of people that care about nothing but getting their 15 minutes of fame - which will most likely result in thousands of people thinking they to can do this & get rich quick & our greatest fears will come true - one of which will be this forum flooded with want to bee's (go use a computer that has never logged on to this forum - type in gold refining as a search - this forum comes up at the top of the list)

(2)By way of co-op effort - put a cast together that is going to work together to show the truth about this - that it's not a quick & easy path to wealth - that it takes MUCH time & dedication to learn to do it let alone do it - that you can't just do it anywhere - that it requires a fair sized investment before you see a true return - that it takes large amounts of scrap to get even a small button - & htat unless done right there are dangers & hazards involved

My first choice is --- Do Not Do A Show

but being as how that is not even a choice to make --- & thereby still needing to make a choice from the actual & remaining choice's

My second choice is #2 

That is the choice(s) as it has been presented to us by Michael from Discovery --- But there is still a third choice that can be made - which is to make no choice at all - sit on the fence & let the chips fall where they will - & then HOPE when the show does go to air - it doesn't cause your worst fears to come true

Please understand that I am not trying to divide this forum &/or that I am not even trying to promote this show --- I am simply saying that if there is going to be a show - then I have put a voice to what kind of show I would like to see & what kind I would not want to see --- believing that the only place you are going to find the real & up standing home hobby refiners that could pull off the show I want to see are right here --- AND - I am both glad & proud to be a part of such dedicated & hard working individuals in a craft that few can accomplish &/or grasp - & that will remain true regardless of any show &/or its outcome 

Kurt


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## kurtak (Feb 12, 2014)

silversaddle1 said:


> I guess niteliteone needs to learn what the green "sarcasm" icon means.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Harold would agree that this conversation has been nothing but "adult".



I was going to comment - but then I thought - naaaaa - one devil in the tread is enough :mrgreen: 

Kurt


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## jeneje (Feb 12, 2014)

Kurt, you have talked to Mike, "right". Have a question here? We all would like to see the truth told about home refining - that would be GREAT!! Here's the kicker...if, the truth is told (which it should be). How many people do "you" think will continue to watch a show with no drama in it? How many advertisers would pay, to show there products on a show with no long term following.* "Not many if, any"*

I understand your point about what you are saying but, the bottom line in this is the all mighty* "DOLLAR"* if, they can't sell ads they can't produce the show. Look at "Moonshiner" look at the drama there. It's entrainment, A show like this is educational, and for the most part not all of what we do will ever be aired.

The reason I say this is, the danger of the chemicals. Mike and the discovery channel would be *"FOOLS"* to air how the precious metals are extracted. To many people want to "SUE" now days for any reason. This would only open up an opportunity for those kind of people, and don't think for one second, a parent or wife that loses a loved one over a show, that shows how to do this, would not be at the lawyers office in a heart beat. 

*Yes, I read your post about what he said he would not do.* I don't believe that. 

Second, and please, I do not mean this is the wrong way. The general public could care less about a scrapper going around picking up what they consider "TRASH" trying to make a few dollars. My point here is this, a show without drama is a show without a following. The liability to show all of what we do is far more then they are willing to take.

I may be wrong but, without drama and the use of chemical extraction aired on the show, I don't think they have a show.
Ken


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## artart47 (Feb 13, 2014)

Hi Friends !
I just would like to share my observation. Please don't be offended. this is how I feel and and is at the core of my fears and distrust!
I am a 60 year old father of young children. A large part of my earnings has always come from scrap metal and since meeting the wounderfull folks on this forum a few years ago it also includes precious metals refining.
All the government seems to be doing , in my opinion, is crush any way for the people to earn a living. It's almost as though they would rather have me to give up and be collecting a check/ benefits from the leftests because then I must support them. 
When the Discovery guy said," to show how a few smart people are making it in rough economic times" I could only think of the ruling class siting in their council rooms with their city attourneys comming up with way to take this away from us and make it "the kings scrap" 
With a mass of uneducated and opertunistic novices ravaging the country side trying to "get the gold out" as a result of such a show, I believe it would bring the end of small/home/hobby refining! Can you imagine the battle-cry when they come up with a video of some moron dumping heavy metal waste solution in his yard next to a schoolyard, or being hospitalized for poisoning with a heavy material that we don't use here for leaching gold.
artart47


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 13, 2014)

Well I spent an hour talking to Michael last night. Quite the nice guy who seems to have a good working idea of what it takes to do what you do. He listens to what you have to say and understands the concerns about safety.

It sounds like the show is going to be a go, with us or without us here on the forum. I find it funny and interesting that if you go read the threads about Dave's show "Meltdown", most are happy with it. So what's the difference? What is OK with Dave's show that is not OK with Michael's? The Meltdown show did not come on here asking for imput from you guys. Not once. Yet people liked the show, fake as it was in part, but still fun to watch.

This guy is willing to talk to anyone who would like to visit with him, send him a PM and see for yourself what he has in mind.


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## modtheworld44 (Feb 13, 2014)

silversaddle1 said:


> Well I spent an hour talking to Michael last night. Quite the nice guy who seems to have a good working idea of what it takes to do what you do. He listens to what you have to say and understands the concerns about safety.
> 
> It sounds like the show is going to be a go, with us or without us here on the forum. I find it funny and interesting that if you go read the threads about Dave's show "Meltdown", most are happy with it. So what's the difference? What is OK with Dave's show that is not OK with Michael's? The Meltdown show did not come on here asking for imput from you guys. Not once. Yet people liked the show, fake as it was in part, but still fun to watch.
> 
> This guy is willing to talk to anyone who would like to visit with him, send him a PM and see for yourself what he has in mind.




silversaddle1

I have talked to Micheal 3 times already and have gotten great responses from him.This show will be made with us or with out us.I choose with us.It's like you stated above,if you can support Meltdown,then why not support something thats going to be truthful and more accurate than meltdown.The sooner Micheal gets our co-operation the sooner he can make the show.If you don't want to believe what we are telling you then contact me via PM and I'll give you his direct number,since he said I could.All we are asking is that you hear what he has to say,then decide 100% on which way to go.I was not sold on the Idea either when I first read this post,so thats when and why I contacted him via email.Honestly I didn't even know if I would be contacted back,so when he did call I was surprised.I think that yall will be surprised too,But the only real way to know is call him and find out for your self.


modtheworld44


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## kurtak (Feb 13, 2014)

I have also talked with Michael on the phone & feel quit confident (like silversaddle & modtheworld) that he wants the show to be a real show about this & not some drama BS --- in fact he asked me my opinion about a couple guys that he had concerns about being drama look at me types -- His concerns came from reading here on the forum which shows me that Michael is not just looking for anyone &/or just following this thread - he is doing his research about both people & the work/process involved

I feel confident that he wants the show to be one that would meet the approval of the more up standing & out standing members of this forum

I believe those are the people he is looking for to do the show with

Rather then just speculating on what it might be - contact him & talk with him - he actually understands the concerns we have for a bad show

Kurt


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## Anonymous (Feb 13, 2014)

Well he wouldn't want me on the show. Not only am I in the UK, but I'm short, fat, ugly, and.... ginger!!


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## Geo (Feb 13, 2014)

they wouldnt want me either as ive been told that im mechanically inclined, i screw up everything. :lol:


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## Platdigger (Feb 13, 2014)

Wouldn't that be "declined" :lol: 

Seriously though, I would say if there had to be a show, you Geo would be an excellent choice to be on it.


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## niteliteone (Feb 13, 2014)

kurtak said:


> I have also talked with Michael on the phone & feel quit confident (like silversaddle & modtheworld) that he wants the show to be a real show about this & not some drama BS --- *in fact he asked me my opinion about a couple guys that he had concerns about being drama look at me types -- His concerns came from reading here on the forum* which shows me that Michael is not just looking for anyone &/or just following this thread - he is doing his research about both people & the work/process involved
> 
> I feel confident that he wants the show to be one that would meet the approval of the more up standing & out standing members of this forum
> 
> ...


Now that's priceless :shock: 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## resabed01 (Feb 13, 2014)

Harold_V said:


> That being said, throttle back on the comments and just let this thread run its course. It will quickly move out of sight if you stop venting. You've made your positions known. Try to not escalate, as that will serve no real purpose.
> Harold




That's some good advice there Harold.


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## rich_2137 (Feb 14, 2014)

spaceships said:


> Well he wouldn't want me on the show. Not only am I in the UK, but I'm short, fat, ugly, and.... ginger!!


Lol :mrgreen:


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## kurtak (Feb 14, 2014)

niteliteone said:


> kurtak said:
> 
> 
> > *in fact he asked me my opinion about a couple guys that he had concerns about being drama look at me types -- His concerns came from reading here on the forum*
> ...



Not sure what you meant by that niteliteone - but if you are insinuating that I am one of those guys that is a drama type that can't wait for my 15 minutes of fame to say hey world look at me --- then all I can say is fine - you have an opinion (which you are entitled to) BUT - (1)then you don't really know me & (2) you really have not been following anything I have been saying because ----------

(1) in the very first place my first reaction &/or opinion to this is/was NO don't do a show
(2) I have said repeatedly I personally have NO desire to personally be on the show
(3) & I have continually said that IF there is going to be a show then I want to see it done so that it gives a true depiction with the kind of people that have the concerns to do it right & that would work together to insure its done right so that it does NOT end up being a show done by drama types that care about nothing but getting their 15 minutes of fame

niteliteone --- apparently are not really following what I am saying here - you have an opinion - that opinion is based on your greatest fears - your greatest fears tell you your opinion is absolutely right - & therefore anything out side of your opinion is absolutely wrong - & therefore no matter how you look at the coin you can't see that it has 2 sides to it - your coin is a 2 headed coin & no matter how much you flip it - it keeps coming up heads (bad)

My coin has both a heads & tails side to it - it has been flipped into the air but has not yet landed - when it lands it will land ether heads (bad) or tails (good) --- meaning - if when it lands - if no one that cares enough about this gets involved - then the coin is going to land heads & the drama types will win & it will be the show we all fear (me included) --- I want the coin to land tails - I want it to have a cast of people that really care about this & care enough about it that they work together to make it the show it needs to be - guys like Geo or silversaddle or lasersteve or butcher or even a guy like you --- those are just examples of the type of people I would like to see do this show & we have many more here like them 

This show - Is Going To Happen - My opinion of whether there should be a show - or not - has no bearing on the mater at hand --- if it did I would say no No NO until I was blue in the face --- that is my opinion about doing A show

The problem is that no mater how much I say - DON"T DO A SHOW --- I am not going to stop it from happening 

Therefore I have one of 2 choices to make they are

(1) do nothing - let the chips fall as they will & HOPE that it does not end up being just another drama filled bunch of BS show--- OR ----
(2) care enough about this to at the very least promote what I can not stop from happening - & try to get the RIGHT people involved - so it ends up being a show with the right people that have the right set ups to do this right so it gives a true depiction of what this is really about

Do I have to be or even want to on the show --- NO --- there are others that are as qualified & for sure others that are more qualified - others that I would much rather see on it then me

I am in no way simply promoting "hey lets do this show" --- rather I am promoting - if we can not stop the show from happening - then lets get together & put every effort possible in making the outcome of the show be one we could live with --- & we have the people here to make that happen

I have been a member here long enough to be able to say that I am proud to know these people & be a part of them - I can only hope they to will care enough to take action & thereby take a part in influencing the out come for the better of something we could live with

Kurt


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## solar_plasma (Feb 14, 2014)

Dear Michael,

I don't know any "scene" here and you will find no freaks and no sensation here, just boring shoptalk about electrons and complexes. Anyone who wants to stay here is normally expected to read Hoke, the safety section etc. or to leave. I do not know, why this should not be the case here, but this decision is not up to me, so I don't care. You want to learn about refining? There is no royal road, you have to read and study like everyone else. All you want to know, can be learned, but it can't be told. 

@all
*And I think time has come to listen to Harold's advice.*


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 14, 2014)

Kurtak,

I don't think niteliteone's comment was directed at you.

BTW, niteliteone, I thought you were done with this conversation? Why are you back?


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## niteliteone (Feb 14, 2014)

silversaddle1 said:


> Kurtak,
> 
> I don't think niteliteone's comment was directed at you.
> 
> BTW, niteliteone, I thought you were done with this conversation? Why are you back?


Correct.
Now lets see if he is big enough to apologize like I asked for in the PM I sent him


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## Smack (Feb 14, 2014)

So now if we don't take part "We don't care"? If ya can't stop it from happening then just give in, that's an interesting mindset ya got Kurt.


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## Geo (Feb 14, 2014)

in my meager understanding of such things, i believe there are two kinds of television shows for this type of thing. (1) reality type show : we have all seen the type, Gold Rush, Bering Sea Gold, Storage Wars. anyone with real world knowledge in any of this can tell that its scripted and therefore are fictitious. (2) documentary type show : Gold Fever, antiques roadshow, American Pickers. event though they are not true documentary shows, they seem to be unscripted and therefore non-fictitious. like ive said before, these shows are ratings driven. if its a good show, whether its fiction or not, the ratings are good and the show enjoys a nice long run. if the subject matter is unpopular or controversial, the ratings seem to be higher if the participants act in an even more unpopular or controversial way. what we, as a whole, do as a hobby or pastime or living is not unpopular or controversial. what it can be is very time consuming and boring. have you ever sat and watched a gold drop? have you ever sat with a reaction for hours monitoring a reaction? have you ever sat and pulled pins day after day, hour after hour for a few grams of gold? who wants to watch a show that is as exciting as watching paint dry? these shows take operating capital and no one in their right mind will sponsor this type of show without expecting to make money. they make their money from the commercials. if people dont watch the show, they cant see the commercials. i cant see how a non-established, non-personality can expect enough of a following to keep a show afloat without adding reality type drama to keep ratings up.


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## kurtak (Feb 14, 2014)

niteliteone

Yes you are right - as you say in your last PM to me - I have checked in on a the forum a couple of times since I received your first PM this morning 

I do that often from my "I phone" when I am out & about - just to see what is going on & stay current - but I never post from my I phone - trying to type on that little phone key pad is a pain in the butt so I wait till I get home to my computer

So my first apology to you is that I did not apologize in the time frame you expected &/or that I did not do it from my I phone when I checked in to only read & stay current --- I am sorry

My second apology to you is for my misunderstanding your reply to one of my previous postings & thereby responding with a post based on my misunderstanding & I am most certainly sorry if what I said offended you in any way --- that was not my intended purpose

I will even say it one more time - it was not my intent to offend you - if I did I am truly sorry - I just misunderstood what you said & was hoping to straighten that out

so maybe you also misunderstood me --- thats ok - I am not offended - it happens all the time here on the forum - so I don't expect an apology from you - there is no need for one - misunderstanding happen - I am man enough to just let it go at that - a misunderstanding

Kurt


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## silversaddle1 (Feb 14, 2014)

Ain't it great that we can all get along and admit mistakes and still all be friends with a common goal? Good job everybody!


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## kurtak (Feb 14, 2014)

Smack said:


> So now if we don't take part "We don't care"? If ya can't stop it from happening then just give in, that's an interesting mindset ya got Kurt.



Smack 

the answer to that question is --- NO - I do not think if you don't take part (in the show) that also means you don't care & if I have left that impression then I need to apologize - not just to you but to the forum as a whole --- because if I have left that impression then I am not say what I mean to say in a way that it is understood the way I hope for it to be understood --- That is my fault - I am not choosing my words &/or wording them in away to convey them as I hope to

For that I truly do apologize - I will have to go back & read again some of my postings to see how what I say - isn't what I hope or mean to say

Kurt


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## niteliteone (Feb 15, 2014)

Kurt,
My apology is also offered for any misunderstanding and your apology is also accepted.
(Quick hand shake)
Now lets get back to refining and let these words before us pass into the wind 8) 

I still don't like the idea for this show (personal reasons) that don't need to be posted in the forum but I can understand others reasons for wanting to do the show.
We are all just "" talking and expressing "" ourselves like families should do with things they don't see eye to eye with, but We are still a family 8) 

Thank You.


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## g_axelsson (Feb 15, 2014)

Think of all the scores of new members this will bring...



RealRefiner923 said:


> Hi, this is my first post.
> 
> ..ehh..  ...see, I'm on this reality show and I bought a refining kit from ishore and followed the instructions and put all my circuit boards, jewellery, ect, ect into it. My problem is that I can't get the gold out and we are going to shoot the next episode tomorrow so I haven't got time to read any long threads on the forum so just give me the quick information I need to get to that shiny button in the end. Preferably a video would be great as I don't like to read!
> 
> Ps. If you could hold my hand that would be great!



:mrgreen: 

Göran


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## bmgold2 (Feb 15, 2014)

RealRefiner923 said:


> Hi, this is my first post.
> 
> ..ehh..  ...see, I'm on this reality show and I bought a refining kit from ishore and followed the instructions and put all my circuit boards, jewellery, ect, ect into it. My problem is that I can't get the gold out and we are going to shoot the next episode tomorrow so I haven't got time to read any long threads on the forum so just give me the quick information I need to get to that shiny button in the end. Preferably a video would be great as I don't like to read!
> 
> Ps. If you could hold my hand that would be great!



Welcome to the group RealRefiner923,

I hate to be the one to tell you this but your gold was probably evaporated into the air. You can probably recover it from your fume hood scrubber but not before the next episode. I'd suggest melting some gold plated fingers into a believable looking "gold drop" and use that as a prop. Don't get too greedy though. Keep it below 10 Troy ounces or the viewers will start to doubt your results.

SORRY GUYS and girls. This would be a good place for one of those Smilies but I just can't bring myself to use them. Moderators, you can delete this if you want but PLEASE don't delete me. It's just a joke. I really hope this show doesn't stoop to fake results.

EDIT: Seeing that this thread has pretty much run its course, I'd suggest closing it now. Michael can always start a new topic to let us know when this show is made. You'll probably get viewers from this forum just to check out how you did. I personally don't have cable TV but would probably watch this show if it is online. I'm not saying I think it should be made but since it IS going to be made anyway, I'd check it out. I watched a few clips of Meltdown just because it was mentioned here.


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## Auggie (Feb 16, 2014)

Good Lord, I realize I'm late to the game here but please tell me no one actually responded to this guy.


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## kurtak (Feb 16, 2014)

Auggie said:


> Good Lord, I realize I'm late to the game here but please tell me no one actually responded to this guy.



LOTs of people have contacted him - I know because I have talked with him (that doesn't mean I intend to be on the show)

Keep in mind there are 26,600 members on this forum - & only about 30 (plus or minus) that post actively --- the rest are lurking

Kurt


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## bmgold2 (Feb 16, 2014)

I know most of those who have posted here are against this show being made at all but, since it is going to be made (with or without our help), it probably would be better that someone who knows the dangers be involved instead of just someone who learned how to do it from YouTube being on the show and not mentioning the dangers or the issue of waste disposal including the fumes. I really hope they show fume hoods, scrubbers, gloves, goggles, etc. and really push the safety issues. That won't stop people from trying it but at least they should get the idea that this isn't something you should do in your kitchen.


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## jeneje (Feb 16, 2014)

I too have talked with Michael, the show will focus more on finding the scrap then refining it. I had talked with him in detail about the show and from what I was told, the only part of the refining you will see on the show is going into a "work area (lab)" and the final result, "Button" 

My understanding is, he wants five scraper to follow and record how they find there scrap, the struggle that is involved in tearing it apart, and why they do it? He seems to think "This will help the scrapper" How yet I have not figured out. Anyway from my conversation with him, No refining processes will be shown. 

Ken


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## CBentre (Feb 16, 2014)

solar_plasma said:


> Dear Michael,
> 
> I don't know any "scene" here and you will find no freaks and no sensation here, just boring shoptalk about electrons and complexes. Anyone who wants to stay here is normally expected to read Hoke, the safety section etc. or to leave. I do not know, why this should not be the case here, but this decision is not up to me, so I don't care. You want to learn about refining? There is no royal road, you have to read and study like everyone else. All you want to know, can be learned, but it can't be told.
> 
> ...



After reading through 5 pages of comments I believe this is probably the best one to come to light. Michael please don't take this the wrong way but the way I see it is very simple. 
What you want is information on how people are surviving in these tough economical times? 
I think your going to have to discover that on your own. Perhaps reading post's for a year might help, but I really don't see how us giving you trade secrets would benefit us. I wish you the best with your experiment and I will keep an eye out for the debut.


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## Auggie (Feb 17, 2014)

It's schlock. All these types of shows serve to do is dilute the playing field for those who are already in it. The only result of contributing to an effort like this is encouraging schlock and making it more difficult for everyone involved to find PM scrap once all the rank amateurs enter the field and lay waste to it.

Don't do it. People like Michael should be shunned. All he wants to do is exploit you so he can make an easy paycheck. There is nothing to be gained from this other than bragging rights with your friends, and if you want that, go pick up a cheap DV camcorder and make your own reality show and publish it to YouTube and keep all the rights and control for yourself. You'll even have a bigger audience.


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## sharkhook (Feb 17, 2014)

I have avoided this thread since my first post for many reasons. You want to know how people are surviving in these tough times, it is so simple it would never make any television show. *They do what they have to.* Scrap junk, cut trees, rake yards and mow lawns and every thing in between. They take job's at the convenience stores, restaurants, and any other place that will hire them. Often at way less pay than they used to make before these tough times hit. There is no way they want the answer to "How people survive these tough times". It will be a show about how people can make money by finding PM bearing materials. Not how they can make a dollar selling scrap metal, where much of the money is really at for a scrapper. A better question to ask would be how those who aren't surviving on there own are getting by. But there is no ratings in that question. How about something useful, like how to get a business up and running, for low capital, that would need to create jobs for those who are out of work, but that isn't ratings friendly either. Even for a scrapper that is making decent money, forgetting about the gold content, the work to survive on that alone is more than they can fit into a decent 2 hour show, but a series could be some real "reality" show material. Entertainment T.V. and reality shows are anything but "real" there is always an angle to boost the ratings, no one wants a show about hard, monotonous, often time repetitive, labor. If the show succeeds at the knowledgeable level, great, I would be more than happy to apologize. In return for an like apology if it goes south into a "reality" show like so many on T.V. these days. 

Kind of venting my dislike for t.v. shows, I don't watch much television because of the unrealistic "reality" of it. I don't have cable or satellite anymore. I have an antenna, and seldom use it. Want reality, wake up and record your average day, that is reality, by you and for you.


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## Geo (Feb 17, 2014)

Ok, I think I understand. This brings another question to mind, if there is to be no refining, why bring this to a refining forum? There are several decent scrap metal forums where the people will actually be happy to be a part of a scrapping show.


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## Platdigger (Feb 17, 2014)

Because Geo, it is not just scrap he is interested in. It seems he wants to exploit were you find your "pm" bearing scrap, ya see.


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## Geo (Feb 17, 2014)

Uhhh... I've heard there was gold in poop before. Never actually refined any to do a guess as to how much though.

Seriously, gold is where you find it. There's actually a topic named for PM bearing scrap here on the forum. I have found gold and silver in many places that I would never have thought to look except by accident. If you cant find PM content in just about any dumpster in the city you live in, your not doing it right. If anyone here thinks i would let someone follow me around and film my fat a..self crawling in and out of dumpsters, just think about it in your mind and get your seven chuckles that way because it's not ever going to happen. :lol:


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## MysticColby (Feb 18, 2014)

he came to this forum because there are no good "I want to make money in ewaste, where do you get your materials?" forums.

The funny part is that I would love to see a show about getting gold from ewaste. But not so much "Storage Wars" style; more like "How It's Made". I would love to see starting materials broken apart, time-lapse video of gold dropping, etc. It's funny because I know most people wouldn't like that show; also that they shouldn't make a show like that because of irresponsible people that get caught up in a craze. I know I'm a minority in hating drama/"reality" shows (maybe not here on this forum, but the general public at least).


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## Pantherlikher (Feb 19, 2014)

I have 2 cents to put in so...
"reality" TV is a joke and made to make $$$ not show reality.
My wife watches Hoarding because she says I'm a hoarder...used to say that... She realized nothing I have is "gotta have and save". It all has a purpose and if I can't get to it, it'll be gone when I find it again.

That being said, a show showing the life of a surviver would be interesting but not great for ratings.
1/2hour shows chop alot out for time. Like "meltdown" I finally was able to watch. Interesting but not enough to stay afloat.

I think Geo's fat a$$ in and out of dumpsters would make great TV as there have gotta be times when disaster strikes and that a$$ hits the ground. or gets covered in stanky mess.

Even that would not show the "reality" of spending 12+ hours of hard labor for a few pennies to put food on the table.

B.S.
...Just sayin it would be funny... I've been there...


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## butcher (Feb 19, 2014)

Is this show a comedy?


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## Palladium (Feb 19, 2014)

Turning into one. lol
I've just been watching.


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## CBentre (Feb 20, 2014)

Palladium you have one hell of a sense of humour, that's hilarious. You know, come to think of it. I heard there is this casting job available. Discovery kids or something along those lines. They could use someone with that kind of humour to give the show some spice. Last I heard they were trying to go after some refiners because they finally discovered there's gold in electronics. If it were me, I'd be pointing those cameras to the stars and jumping the next closest asteroid to start drilling. Just sayin.


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## Palladium (Feb 20, 2014)

Funny how the haters hate you when your famous. I've had enough be famous now i just enjoy being infamous.


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## CBentre (Feb 20, 2014)

Hey if your gonna dream, dream big. That way you will truly never be disappointed with your results, there's always that bigger picture and a lot bigger goals to look forward to.


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