# What happens if you use too much hydrogen peroxide in poor man's ar?



## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 25, 2021)

What happens if you use too much hydrogen peroxide in poor man's ar.


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 25, 2021)

You do not use HydrogenPeroxide in poormans AR.
It is a mix of HCl and some nitrate salt, sodium or potassium nitrate usually.


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 25, 2021)

What you don't use hydrogen peroxide I thought you could with hcl ?


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 25, 2021)

That is not poormans AR.
You can use HCl H2O2 to dissolve Gold, Pt, Pd and so on.
But that is not poormans AR.
And too much peroxide should not cause problems, I believe.

You can also dissolve PMs with HCl and chlorine gas or Sodium Chlorate and so on.


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 25, 2021)

Does sodium chlorate or bleach crystals also precipitate pgm


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 25, 2021)

As far as I know, no, not for Chlorate at least.
But too much bleach can increase the Ph to a level that can form hydroxides.
And that will be a different ballgame.
Allthough it is used to separate PGMs it is then done under strictly controlled conditions.


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 25, 2021)

I want to say I boiled a car cat in hcl/ peroxide for like 2 hrs and then filtered liquid and used bleach crystal or sodium chlorate gto precipitate rhodium and palladium ; if I remember rite. 
What happens when you get hydroxides ?


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 25, 2021)

Please study more and keep the chemical names correct.
Sodium Chlorate is not bleach.
Sodium hypochlorite is usually what is called bleach and it is usually in a solution that is akaline, around 11ish 
to keep the hypochlorite stable if I remember correct.
What did you use??


If hydroxides form when the salts are in 
the correct valence, the PGMs can be precipitated 
one at the time. It is called hydrolysis.
Search for bromate hydrolysis.


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 25, 2021)

I used sodium hypochlorite along time ago to precipitate the phm from cat converter solution of HCl/ peroxide


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 25, 2021)

Ok.
And why did you do that?
Was it successful?

Or are you now suffering from the result of that or is this something else all together?
I'm kind of lost at what you have done and hope to accomplish.

One thing that is very clear is that you need to study more. Maybe you should outline your plan here before you do anything as well.
Then we may advice before something goes wrong.


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 25, 2021)

No nothing I have done , I was using HCl to put PD in solution ,and I was under impression peroxide would help to do this but I couldn't find guideline for the amount of peroxide to add to HCl.


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 25, 2021)

One moment you say you have precipitated with hypochlorite, next you say you just asking how much peroxide. 
I'm confused.
What have you done and what have you not done?
Regarding the amount of peroxide....
Just like with nitric in AR, cover with HCl and add small amounts of peroxide until dissolved.

But seriously, you really need to study more.
No more spoonfeeding until you show you have done some serious attampt to study.
PGM salts are dangerous stuff to handle.

Edited writing error.


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 25, 2021)

I had to put some PD into solution and was not sure if adding to much peroxide would hinder the cementing process, cemented with copper powder so much better than using buss bar .

https://imgbox.com/58CTxekO


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 25, 2021)

Any oxidizer in surplus will hinder any kind of precipitation. 
But chlorine and peroxide only needs time and or heat 
to break down or gas out from solution.
They will redissolve metals during precipitation if in excess, but not like Nitric with brown fumes/gases.
The issue with copper powder is dissolving the excess copper after, without dissolving the Pd.


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 25, 2021)

New problem my metal washing silver now starting to develop light green it looks like it's getting wet again wtf .. 
Can I use household ammonia to dissolve copper or what should I do now


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 25, 2021)

Is this related to the topic in this thread?
Or do you have other projects?


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 25, 2021)

No the cemented pgm on copper we're a beautiful palladium ccolor literally 30 min ago , now it's developing a green copper look . This is real time like now. Pictured below is like 45 min ago . Compare the 2 do I use ammonia to get rid of copper


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## Yggdrasil (Sep 25, 2021)

Ammonia is good to get rid of copper.
Smelly but I think I read it works best with a bit heat and small amounts of peroxide.
Don't take my word for that.


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 25, 2021)

Damn thanks I appreciate it , I thought I was home free.


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 26, 2021)

So when we cement PGM with copper we are just collecting the pgm black powder on the copper pieces.The pgm seems to come off the copper


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 26, 2021)

After cementing PGM to copper does the black powder or sponge pan out the same as if it were metal ?


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## nickvc (Sep 27, 2021)

Cementation is the process of exchanging a more reactive metal for a less reactive one.


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## Martijn (Sep 27, 2021)

Panning cemented metal dust will be difficult. It's still heavy but a good part will stay suspended in the water for some time. You'll flush out pgm's. 

But why would you want to? 
If you cement from a clean filtered solution, there is nothing else than precious metals. And a bit of copper.
Cemented metals are supposed to fall off the copper. Let settle out, rinse and refine. 
The powder is very fine metal dust. 
You cement your values from dirty solutions and selectively precipitate them from clean solutions.


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 28, 2021)

Ok so basically it should look like this fine black powder pictured below. 
I read somewhere you still have to heat the black powders to drive off residual acid is this correct?


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## Martijn (Sep 29, 2021)

I guess treating pgm dust is the same as washing gold powder. 
Rinse with hot water several times. Boil with a little sulphuric in water if it stays suspended too long. Rinse again. 
Boil in HCL a couple times. 
Rinses with hot water. 
Clean powder? 
Really no clue.. just guessing.
Anyone else got some input?


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## Sorrycantseeme (Sep 29, 2021)

Oh we can't be guessing . Thanks tho , I'll find it in search I guess sometimes it's hard based on the title of the post.
If I could rename this post I would switch it to
" Putting pgms into a sample to test with stannous keep the hcl & peroxide proportioned as needed." 
I was using a tiny bit of HCl then I had peroxide bottle and just a few drops was too much compared to HCl used .
Another thing I did this time different thanks to spot plate was I put the cement on the plate with a dab of HCl then used a plastic coffee straw to touch the peroxide in the bottle and see how fast it started to dissolve on spot plate .
I was able to see the cement start to go into solution with just two dabs of hydrogen peroxide ..
Then after that I tested it and it was a lil color , I could still see black not quite dissolved yet so I remember reading that adding a lil distilled water would make it go into solution better so I added 2 drops of water and mixed it up and the black pgm dissolved within seconds I tested again and bright red.

Then I went over to stock pot added half a water bottle and started agitating .
Suspended copper tubing over the bubbler.
The copper tubing was completely submerged , waited a few seconds pulled it out and all the sudden the pipe was black I literally had to bang the pipe on the wall of bucket to knock it off .
So it appears by diluting stock pot it dissolved much more pgms ... And when they say black pgm bonds tightly too copper it literally has to be smacked to keep copper exposed to cement more pgm .


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