# You are in over you head



## Eaheisler (May 13, 2013)

This is a warning to everyone who thinks they can pick up a few pieces of glass beakers, siring rod, & bang you're raking in the cash. I have invested a large amount into gold fill items. As it stands I have over 8k clean grams of this stuff. Ready to be weighed and refined. But, what I didn't look into was my waste chemicals. Or that the 2.5L jug that I bought wouldn't be enough.... At this point I'm pot invested (roughly $4k) in this idea & with good income coming in it's a hit I can swallow but, if you were to ask me right now the idea or the money I've invested into it I would take the cash. 

Just something to put down in the center for lessons learned the hard way pile.


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## rusty (May 13, 2013)

Eaheisler said:


> This is a warning to everyone who thinks they can pick up a few pieces of glass beakers, siring rod, & bang you're raking in the cash. I have invested a large amount into gold fill items. As it stands I have over 8k clean grams of this stuff. Ready to be weighed and refined. But, what I didn't look into was my waste chemicals. Or that the 2.5L jug that I bought wouldn't be enough.... At this point I'm pot invested (roughly $4k) in this idea & with good income coming in it's a hit I can swallow but, if you were to ask me right now the idea or the money I've invested into it I would take the cash.
> 
> Just something to put down in the center for lessons learned the hard way pile.



Plenty of members on this forum would gladly give you $4,000.00 for 8000 gr ( 17.64 pounds ) clean gold filled scrap.


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## AndyWilliams (May 13, 2013)

rusty said:


> Eaheisler said:
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> 
> > This is a warning to everyone who thinks they can pick up a few pieces of glass beakers, siring rod, & bang you're raking in the cash. I have invested a large amount into gold fill items. As it stands I have over 8k clean grams of this stuff. Ready to be weighed and refined. But, what I didn't look into was my waste chemicals. Or that the 2.5L jug that I bought wouldn't be enough.... At this point I'm pot invested (roughly $4k) in this idea & with good income coming in it's a hit I can swallow but, if you were to ask me right now the idea or the money I've invested into it I would take the cash.
> ...



So very true. I certainly would!

17.64 pounds of 1/20 10k = .3528 pounds of gold. At just a third of a pound, at $1400/ozt, that's over $7k of gold. 

So let me know, I'll even pay shipping!!


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## Palladium (May 13, 2013)

AndyWilliams said:


> rusty said:
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> > Eaheisler said:
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Not to knock your numbers, but those are theoretical numbers. Were it just a few grams that type of miscalculation wouldn't effect the outcome very much, but when you increase the numbers those slight miscalculations make for big disappointments. Gold filled yield numbers are nowhere near as correct when it comes to marginal errors as karat numbers. Many more variables.


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## AndyWilliams (May 13, 2013)

Palladium said:


> AndyWilliams said:
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> > rusty said:
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Point taken. That's why I only use the worst GF numbers and undercut purity and current spot. Heck, just the spot volatility can submarine the return!! But looking at a $4k buy, I'd be comfortable if the theoretical worst case was a projected $3k over the buy. I could lose nearly 40% of the of the gold and still break even. The $4k mark is about what I would actually offer to a seller near me. On this, I would use the other $68 for shipping!!  And if the GF was better. . . 8) 

Thanks Palladium, I appreciate what you have to say!


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## element47.5 (May 13, 2013)

It sounds to me like you've learned a valuable lesson and actually made money doing it! 

This isn't an endeavor for everyone. It's not like cooking in the sense that your ingredients, if you destroy them, are pretty cheap. Even if you try to prepare a very fancy meal and destroy everything into a fetid mess, it would be hard to blow more than $50. You can always drink the wine afterwards. And, most cuts of meat will not blind you or destroy your lungs. Or cause you to become involved with the authorities such that they impose a huge fine. I guess one could eat badly prepared food and get food poisoning, but as uncomfortable as that may be, generally it passes. 

I guess if you wanted to get into woodworking, there might be any number of ways you could cut off your hand or have a splinter injure your eye. 

But this refining stuff, is quite a bit different and higher stakes. Your raw materials cost a lot, it is relatively easy to lose them, and the reagents can seriously injure you. 

Like most buy-sell endeavors, I believe the money in refining originates at the buy side. It sounds like you have that reasonably down. The ability to refine IMO is another profit opportunity but the profit per (unit labor + chemicals + safety gear + waste disposal + exposure to legal liability) is a much, much smaller number than exchanging cash for intelligently bought raw materials. Myself, I have a modest background in chemistry and try as I might, I just cannot justify getting into the refining part, much as I would like to. I don't have a good space to do it. I don't see myself gathering enough raw mat'ls. The dangers of handling the reagents scare me. I have nothing but respect for those who are either professionally engaged in this or are high-functioning amateurs. 

So congratulations are in order, I think. It doesn't sound to me like you've invested in any high-cost anything other than your raw materials and as you've seen, those are eminently salable as they are. There is no shame, as far as I am concerned, in deciding that refining is something you can't execute, for any of a number of good reasons. As we say in the stock market, it is better to be out and wish you were than be in and wish you were out.


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## Geo (May 13, 2013)

if your very careful, the initial cost of equipment makes for a sound investment over the long run. start up cost is the biggest hurdle for any endeavour. its what makes most of the small companies that fail go belly up. think about it this way, on the next batch, all you will have in the way of expense is chemicals (unless you break something).


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## Eaheisler (May 13, 2013)

I'm going to give it a try, I have all my materials a place up in the mountains to do this off grid so no neighbors to deal with &, I need to take some leave anyway. I have something like 42 use or loose days of vacation so a 3 week trip up to the mountains seems in order. I'll take the nitric acid and other chemicals I need (just enough) and enough GF weight to eat up the acid and see what happens. Worst case I loose some money but, I gain the knowledge don't burn up my entire stock &, will be able to make a more informed decision.


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## nickvc (May 14, 2013)

Whether you refine in your back yard, garage or in the wilds always think safety, make sure you understand the risks and avoid all fumes, work upwind or use a hood or a fan. When you have completed your processes make certain the waste solutions are treated correctly to make them harmless to the environment before disposing of them and the really important part is to have a full understanding of the processes before you even start.
You can do this just take your time and don't try to rush the processes until you know exactly the likely outcome, small additions of acids allowing time for them to work so you don't get boil overs and a good method statement at hand to check your progress is no bad idea.
I wish you luck and look forward to seeing your finished gold.


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## total-resale (May 15, 2013)

Perfect example of why you should start off small and work your way up. I am steadily turning a small profit and I haven't even melted my first powder yet (stockpiling)
I buy lots, take out what I like, combine and resell whole or strip and resell. The gold I will get is just a bonus =) I have all new glassware, all the chems and PPE and I am out zero dollars. Don't be in a rush, take it slow, be smart, and it all works out.


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## Eaheisler (May 26, 2013)

I rushed into a process and ended up with a mess. Nothing to do with my GF items just some of the other scrap I've been accumulating. At this moment I'm at a tactical pause because, I'm not lost I'm just off the grid and, heading in an unknown direction.


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