# Fake catalytic converter, test for Pt



## Todor (Jan 26, 2014)

Hi all,
I would like to ask what is the most easy and fast way to test for platinum in a car catalytic converter. I know they do some drilling on the cat and do a chemical analysis, but the hot AR and then test with tin choride for platinum is time consuming. Is there any other way to test for platinum for like 5 minutes, except the XRF gun costing 20 000 dollars.
Thanks for your time


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## kurtak (Jan 30, 2014)

Todor said:


> Hi all,
> I would like to ask what is the most easy and fast way to test for platinum in a car catalytic converter. I know they do some drilling on the cat and do a chemical analysis, but the hot AR and then test with tin choride for platinum is time consuming. Is there any other way to test for platinum for like 5 minutes, except the XRF gun costing 20 000 dollars.
> Thanks for your time



Todor

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a "fake" cat --- what you might find is cats that have been pre-washed by someone to recover the PGMs in them - meaning someone has done a leach wash on them as a whole cat (comb/biscuit still in the canister) to recover most but not all of the PGMS in the cat - Even these will still have "some" PGMs in them so they will still test positive for PGMS

Next - an XRF is not going to tell you anything - the PGMs in a cat are so finely divided & distributed in the wash coat that covers the ceramic biscuit that an XRF won't detect them

Next - dissolving a small sample in AR (or HCL/CL) & then testing with stannous (tin) chloride is only going to tell you that PGMs are there - not how much Pt &/or Pd &/or Rh (platinum, palladium, rhodium) is in the cat --- & as mentioned above - even prewashed cats will test positive with this test.

So - the only real way for a hobby refiner to even come close to a real test on a single cat would be to do a fire assay & then part the assay bead --- which is way more complicated then an AR/stannous test

You think an XRF is expensive - the analytical equipment used by the large refining companies start in the 100 plus thousand dollar range

Bottom line - is there a "quick & easy" way for a guy like you or me to test a cat & determine value --- NO

Kurt


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## Gratilla (Jan 30, 2014)

kurtak said:


> ... dissolving a small sample in AR (or HCL/CL) & then testing with stannous (tin) chloride is only going to tell you that PGMs are there - not how much Pt &/or Pd &/or Rh (platinum, palladium, rhodium) is in the cat --- & as mentioned above - even prewashed cats will test positive with this test.



*Spectrophotometric Analysis* n. The determination of the structure or quantity of substances by measuring their capacity to absorb light of various wavelengths. (TheFreeDictionary.com)

I first came across this in a research document detailing determination of gold in lab samples (using stannous chloride). Apparently it's very accurate (and probably needs some expensive equipment).

But ... some time back I considered adding a method for detecting and measuring gold to my test kit. This was to consist (unfortunately it's still on my ToDo List) of 10 small glass bottles/vials containing predetermined quantities of gold chloride in solution (equivalent to 1 gm/ton, 2 gm/ton, etc of Au) tested with stannous chloride. So the bottles would have increasing intensities of purple as the known quantity of dissolved gold increased.

To test an unknown sample, leach with (say) SSN, add SnCl2 and compare the colour against the standards and voila. (Is it that simple?)

Of course we all know that SnCl2 can also test for Pt and Pd, returning different colours.

A mix of Au/Pt/Pd might be problematic by this method though.


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## jimdoc (Jan 30, 2014)

The site about converter scams is no more;

http://catscams.com/

Don't know why they didn't leave the info up.

Jim


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## kurtak (Jan 31, 2014)

jimdoc said:


> The site about converter scams is no more;
> 
> http://catscams.com/
> 
> ...



Interesting - it was a very informative site - maybe instead of doing the intended purpose of informing people what to look for concerning scams it was teaching people how to scam :?: 

Kurt


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## etack (Jan 31, 2014)

Sounds like a Cease and Desist order or at least a recommendation from their attorney.

Eric


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