# Trash buring furnace



## goldnugget77 (Jul 27, 2009)

I was wondering what you guys think about this for incineration of polishing dirt.

1) For example can this be done in a north American downtown city,
I notice that he does not have a scrubber so 
2) Will there be lots of smell and fumes.

I have e-mailed that fellow once and as usual he is very eager to sell his products.
So you cant really get straight answers



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GtIWd-OVlM


----------



## 4metals (Jul 27, 2009)

He doesn't have a scrubber but he does have an afterburner. Afterburners are effective at smoke reduction and even elimination by allowing a second burn of the smoke to complete combustion. I've used them effectively in big cities with no smoke. The surprising thing is his stack is metal. Most ovens with afterburners utilize refractory chimneys to deal with the high temperature necessary to complete combustion of the smoke. 
What does he claim the feed rate is, any oven will smoke if it's overloaded, and even a poor design won't smoke if it's underloaded. It's all about how long the smoke is in contact with the burn zone of the afterburner. Retention time is critical as is a combustion air source.


----------



## goldnugget77 (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi 4metals 
Thank for your reply.
The purchase of a machine like this one is on my agenda
Which companies are well known for making these machines.


----------



## 4metals (Jul 27, 2009)

They can get pricey, but an incinerator to burn approx 150 pounds per hour gets pretty large. I've never bought a new one but I've always found used incinerators to rebuild. The body and refractory lining are the bulk of it and usually what you get at a used equipment company, believe it or not animal crematoriums work well. 
Then I always used Incinomite burner systems from Midco International for burners and damper controls. 
There are options, what and how much are you burning?


----------



## goldnugget77 (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi 4metals 
I will be burning jewelers polishing waste things like roughe and the paste from buffing the jewelery.
The amount I am not sure 
I would say about 500 pounds a day
Thanks


----------



## 4metals (Jul 27, 2009)

Wow polishing sweeps, I thought all of that business went overseas. They're few and far between in the NYC area and they once were incredibly abundant. If you're burning 500 pounds a day that's a substantial quantity, I hope you can sustain it. Guys burning less use burn out ovens that jewelers used to burn out the wax for casting but you won't get by at 500 pounds a day. I knew a guy who built the home made sweeps burner detailed in Lowen's book "Small Scale Refining of Jewelers Wastes" he claimed he burnt 25 pounds an hour in it with no smoke. I tend to believe him because he was on 47th street in the Jewelry district in midtown Manhattan. I can scan the picture from the book if you're interested. You could probably build 2 of them for a fraction of the cost of an incinerator.

The one advantage to burning polishing sweeps is that they have a positive BTU value so once they're ignited they keep burning and all you have to do is keep the afterburner hot.


----------



## goldnugget77 (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi 4metals 
Thanks for your reply
The amount for the figures of the waste was something I said without really thinking to much about it.
It is really approximate
I would be interested in the pictures and more details if its not going to take up too much of your time
Thanks very much


----------



## Palladium (Jul 27, 2009)

4metals said:


> It's all about how long the smoke is in contact with the burn zone of the afterburner. Retention time is critical as is a combustion air source.



You are correct.
Federal law is .8 Sec At 1600 Degs F.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16393066/Alumco-Sweat-Furnaces-Forum?secret_password=1ylorjbjrtq5nhg0ytmj


----------



## goldnugget77 (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi Palladium
Thanks for the link
There are many choices of machinery in that link.
Which would be the right machine for my needs


----------



## Palladium (Jul 28, 2009)

None of them. I used to build these systems years ago. I watched the video of the oven they built. It would be interesting to see how it held together after say 24 hours of hard use.I can't tell what size plating them used on the body, but it looks kind of thin to not be insulated. Even at one inch thickness the plate will warp over time without some reinforcement welded to the out side of the skin and refractory lining the inside. If it were me i would use 1/4 steel plate with refractory lining the inside. If done right it would last more years than you would probably use it. It don't look like it has an afterburner on it. I really don't know what the heck that thing is. It appears to be what we use to call a smoke box that was designed into old copper wire burning furnaces. I think you can imagine the smoke that would come off of burning 2,000 lbs of insulated copper wire at a time. :shock: It works something like the EGR system on a car, recirculating gas smoke and vapor to be re burnt in the combustion chamber process again. But i don't understand the way he has it set up. He also claims no smoke, but yet we don't know because we can't see the exit stream on the outside of the building, nor do we know what he put into the oven. If you look when he tilts the camera up you can see a hole in the ceiling with a beam of light coming through it and you can see the smoke in the room. Smokeless :lol: 

Now as far as the oven goes to burn your jewelers waste, I have never dealt with so i don't know what all goes into the design of one, But it shouldn't be that hard to do. Now the after burner to eliminate the smoke i do know about. If it were me and i built on of these i would go with an afterburner type system just to make dam sure it worked. If you had one of those little things this guy is making and you throw ed a little smoke in the air you might get a visit from the EPA, and they would not approve that thing there. They get really picky about there air quality now days. You could run it off of Nat gas or propane fairly cheap.

How much you looking to spend ?


----------



## 4metals (Jul 28, 2009)

I think Palladium is right I looked at the video again and it isn't an afterburner, it looks more like a centrifugal dust collector. I think the concept is smoke goes out the rear of the noisy little box and comes in the square duct where it spins out the particulates and they go back into the burn box and the rest goes up the stack into that properly flashed hole in the roof. I'd keep away from that rig. I'm waiting for the wife to get back from NY to scan the pics from Lowen's book, need another day, sorry.


----------



## Oz (Jul 29, 2009)

Just a silly thought for a second. 

I wonder if some auto catalyst honeycomb might be able to be used in an after burner capacity if the furnace was regulated with draft to achieve the proper temperature at the catalyst.


----------



## qst42know (Jul 29, 2009)

It doesn't take much metals contamination to spoil a cat.


----------



## lazersteve (Jul 29, 2009)

Here are photos of the Lowen's book burners that 4Metals is talking about (sorry for the poor quality photos of pictures, scans would be much better):







Incinerator






Burner Photo






Burner Diagram






Afterburner Detail.

4Metals, If you would please post some better quality scans when you get the chance, I don't have a scanner.

Steve


----------



## Palladium (Jul 29, 2009)

I was studying about this process and ran across this between Peter Shor and Daniel at Precious Metals West.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/articles/2002/aug02/0802let.html


----------



## goldnugget77 (Jul 29, 2009)

Hi Friends
That is really something.
As usual I get more info than what I was expecting
Thanks Guys


----------



## teabone (Jul 29, 2009)

Looks like Daniel got embarrassed , I enjoyed reading that , thanks Palladium !


----------



## Palladium (Jul 29, 2009)

Yeah, I don't care much for Peter Shor or Daniel either one, but i have to say he straightened that little bit out quick.


----------



## Platdigger (Jul 30, 2009)

You know Palladium, you may have this Peter Shor guy all wrong.
Now granted, I don't know the guy, but his patents seem good, and I think all he has really done is try to run a buisness.
yes?


----------



## 4metals (Aug 3, 2009)

After scanning these diagrams from Lowens book and copying the text I must admit the description he gave lacks some detail. When I see how this looks I'll post some comments on construction, I have seen these used and they can really be quite effective and inexpensive to build.


----------



## golddie (Aug 3, 2009)

Hi 4metals
Thanks for posting those pictures
If you can write about the construction that would be nice.
How can an average person build one of these things
Thanks


----------



## 4metals (Aug 3, 2009)

While Lowen says you can leave out the grills I don't agree,, they provide a place for the unburned sweep to stay with air beneath to burn more completely, and when they are burnt they fall to the bottom to be scooped out easily. 

The burner in the afterburner is a pipe or tube burner which is nothing more than a pipe with holes drilled in it to provide a long line of flames to the inner tube. I suggest googling Charles A Hones, a manufacturer of burners specific to burnout ovens and heating equipment. Request a catalog, they make pipe burners with their "buzzer" style air intake which will work well and they also make the gas jets Lowen refers to to dry wet sweeps, also highly necessary. 

The end of the afterburner at the front end is open to the room, it provides air intake to the afterburner and provides necessary air to combust the unburnt smoke. The back end of the afterburner has a blower with a nozzle aimed up to induce a draft to exhaust the burnt smoke to the chimney. 

Make sure the doors close pretty tightly to minimize air leakage because if the gaps are too large this thing will smoke because the air will leak out of the burn chamber and not pass thru the afterburner. Gasketing would serve you well here. 

I've seen these things work and for jewelry sweeps they are very effective.


----------



## Refiner232121 (Aug 3, 2009)

What they have here is impressive
http://www.charlesahones.com/gas_burners.htm

But its up to you to construct something to your needs
From what i can see they don't have furnace like that in the picture from the Lowns book


----------



## 4metals (Aug 3, 2009)

If you want a furnace like in Lowens sketch you'll have to find a welder to make you the body of the burner to the specs in the sketch. Then you'll have to add a pipe burner for the heat source in the afterburner and another burner to burn the wet stuff. If you start out without the burner for the wet material a little kerosene will get the sweeps burning just fine. 

The printed Hones catalog has more than their website. Also the newer models have safety features and pilot lights which you may not want to pay for.


----------



## aflacglobal (Aug 3, 2009)

The guy from UTUBE sent me an email. $ 2,000 for the unit he said. Huuummmmmmm ???

Here's his website, check it out. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: http://www.emakmakina.com/index.asp

Were it me the design of the afterburner from the book is really crude at best, I would design it different. It would be more efficient and pass E.P.A. Inspection should you have a visit from them. All you need to meet the E.P.A.'s guidelines for Small Source emissions is a data logger. Which can be had for about $ 200.00 If you did it yourself you could build a good one ( Sweeps Furnace ) for $ 2,000. Automated controls and all.


----------



## kjavanb123 (Nov 24, 2013)

4metals said:


> After scanning these diagrams from Lowens book and copying the text I must admit the description he gave lacks some detail. When I see how this looks I'll post some comments on construction, I have seen these used and they can really be quite effective and inexpensive to build.



Hi,

Pictures are no longer available, please kindly advise.

Regards,
Kevin


----------



## 4metals (Nov 27, 2013)

I just looked at the pictures on page 1 of this thread, I had posted pictures from Lowen's book as did Steve. I see them on my computer.


----------



## niteliteone (Nov 28, 2013)

4metals said:


> I just looked at the pictures on page 1 of this thread, I had posted pictures from Lowen's book as did Steve. I see them on my computer.


I think he might be referring to the attachment included under the last picture on that post. I tried to open it and the site says it no longer exists on this site.


----------



## grainsofgold (Feb 14, 2015)

4metals said:


> While Lowen says you can leave out the grills I don't agree,, they provide a place for the unburned sweep to stay with air beneath to burn more completely, and when they are burnt they fall to the bottom to be scooped out easily.
> 
> The burner in the afterburner is a pipe or tube burner which is nothing more than a pipe with holes drilled in it to provide a long line of flames to the inner tube. I suggest googling Charles A Hones, a manufacturer of burners specific to burnout ovens and heating equipment. Request a catalog, they make pipe burners with their "buzzer" style air intake which will work well and they also make the gas jets Lowen refers to to dry wet sweeps, also highly necessary.
> 
> ...



I'm revisiting this project again and my welder has some time open to work on it for me- I want to make a scaled down version of Lowen's sweeps burner that he constructed out of a metal barrel with the after burner.

My idea is to design and build out a metal box shape rather than a barrel that we can load stainless steel restaurant pans in with the sweeps and polishing dust and use the after burner in the same fashion as Lowen's = but inside the chamber where we would load the pans should we use gas stove burners underneath them to heat the pans/chamber ? How hot should inside the chamber get to ? 1000-1100 degrees Fahrenheit for a few hours for a complete burn ?

Thanks

Grains of Gold


----------



## Harold_V (Feb 15, 2015)

I'd shoot for the 1,100° threshold. Key to success is igniting and eliminating carbon. 

Harold


----------

