# What is AP



## gary492 (Feb 10, 2012)

What is AP


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## Meh (Feb 10, 2012)

Shorthand for Acid/Peroxide

2 parts ~31% HCL to 1 part 3% H2O2.

Al


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## niteliteone (Feb 10, 2012)

gary492 said:


> What is AP


Gary492,
Hydrochloric acid mixed with hydrogen peroxide. 
This is one of the best processes to remove base metals from electronic scrap before trying to process the gold.

try this link: http://goldrecovery.us/forum_search.php
AP gives 3,520 hits on GRF alone.
This is the best search engine to get the answers you are looking for.


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## lazersteve (Feb 11, 2012)

Gary,

Welcome to the forum.

Have you read all of the links in the Guided tour below?

Steve


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## Anonymous (Feb 11, 2012)

Gary,
Please *do not *start a new thread again! Since you have been here,5 days,you have started 8 threads.
What is Smb 
Gold plated parts 
First time with cellphones 
First Time HELLPPPPP 
AR Help 
Right way video 
What do i do now cellphone BIG HELP NEEDED 
What is AP 
You have been advised several times,to download and read,Hoke's book.You have also been advised several times to use the search feature at the top of the page.The catagories that we have on the main page,are there for a reason,so that members know where to go to find an answer to a problem.The search feature is also there for a reason,so that members can utilize it to also try to locate an answer.I understand you're eagerness to get started,and unfortunately your age is actually working against you in this situation.You need to slow down a little and breathe man,you have plenty of time still to learn all of this.But I am warning you,by you starting all of these threads and asking redundant elementary questions,you are creating the most frusterating situation that we members deal with.....not listening.When I see contributing members giving you good advice,it is a slap in their face when you pay no attention.And you are doing this because they are not telling you what you want to hear.But you had best understand this,they are telling you what you need to hear.Because most of us do this on a daily basis,we know what needs to be done.I am sorry that I cannot make your gold magically appear for you,believe me,we all wish we could do that.But you have to start at the bottom of the learning chart and work your way up,and unfortunately,using chemicals is a ways off for you.
Several years ago,I found myself addressing a new member(much like you),that was hell bent on working with chemicals,without the proper knowledge that ones needs first.I will tell you what I told him........If you hurt someone,hopfully it will only be you.Could you live with yourself knowing that you hurt,or worse killed,someone you love all because you refused to take the time to learn what is being offered to you for free?
I know you don't know me because you have not been here long enough,but I am very mean when it comes to new members not listening to good advice.However I am trying to remember your age and not get too frusterated with you.Most everybody here(myself included),is old enough to be your father,or grandfather.So slow the heck down and listen to what is being told to you.I give you my solemn promise,if you are given bad advice,someone will catch it and fix it.With your eagerness,and desire,you need to be right here on this forum where we can all keep an eye on you,and help you.The gentleman above me(Steve),will be one of your biggest assets since you are starting from scratch.He has an incredible website,with links,and documents,and videos,and he also sells most of the equipment you will need to do this,but that is down the road a little ways still.Like he said check out the "guided tour" in his signature line,and read the forum handbook.And here is some of the best advice you will get on this forum.............download and read Hoke's book! There is a reason why you have been told that so many times before.It will become your,recovery and refining bible.On that note,it is very late here,and I am tired.I will keep a close eye on you,as will others.Best of luck young man.
Johnny


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## nickvc (Feb 11, 2012)

Gary take the above post in the way it's meant Mic / Johnny has been around here for a long time and has seen and done it all, he also has a short fuse for those that won't listen, take advice or rubbish respected members. Be grateful he's taken the time to tell you how it is and given you the benefit of doubt.
As he stated you seem keen and obviously you aren't stupid so harness that eagerness and do the necessary reading and research while keeping a keen eye out for any material that might yield some values....once you know what to do with them!


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## gary492 (Feb 11, 2012)

sorry i got ahead of myself i love you guys u care so much i will read cm hokes book thank you everyone


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## kuma (Feb 11, 2012)

Hi Gary , how are tricks today?
I hope your well!



gary492 said:


> sorry i got ahead of myself i love you guys u care so much i will read cm hokes book thank you everyone



No worries chief , you'll get there if you really want to , 8) 

Ms C. M. Hoke ; 'Refining Precious Metal Wastes' , http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs

All the very best with it , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## nickvc (Feb 11, 2012)

gary492 said:


> sorry i got ahead of myself i love you guys u care so much i will read cm hokes book thank you everyone




That's all that we want to hear Gary, be warned this hobby can be very addictive and chemistry interesting when you can hold some gold or another precious metal in your hand won by your own efforts 8)


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## butcher (Feb 11, 2012)

gary492,

I am counting on you to show us you can become one of our better forum members, you have started out a bit eager, and have ruffled a couple of feathers, but I think once you settle down get some study under your belt you can find a home here, these are all a great bunch of men, and all can be your friend, but you will also need to give them the respect of when you ask a question, and they give advice, pay attention to that advice (or else do not waste their time asking a question you really do not want to hear the answer to), I think you will really enjoy Hoke's book, funny thing is every time I pick up that book I find something in there I did not see the first time I read it, it is kind of like a good movie, you see things watching it the second time you did not notice the first time.

Your apology and willingness to buckle down and read Hokes is showing me your headed in the right direction and on your way to becoming an accepted member of this forum, and that you can learn to recover and refine.

Most all of us have been ahead of ourselves, this gold fever seems to have a way of making a sane man look crazy.


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## Anonymous (Feb 11, 2012)

After seeing the direction this thread has taken,I could not be any happier.Two very big thumbsup Gary.


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## maynman1751 (Feb 12, 2012)

mic said:


> Gary,
> Please *do not *start a new thread again! Since you have been here,5 days,you have started 8 threads.
> What is Smb
> Gold plated parts
> ...





butcher said:


> gary492,
> 
> I am counting on you to show us you can become one of our better forum members, you have started out a bit eager, and have ruffled a couple of feathers, but I think once you settle down get some study under your belt you can find a home here, these are all a great bunch of men, and all can be your friend, but you will also need to give them the respect of when you ask a question, and they give advice, pay attention to that advice (or else do not waste their time asking a question you really do not want to hear the answer to), I think you will really enjoy Hoke's book, funny thing is every time I pick up that book I find something in there I did not see the first time I read it, it is kind of like a good movie, you see things watching it the second time you did not notice the first time.
> 
> ...



Thank You gentlemen for putting this young man on the correct path to his success and safety! John.


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## jimdoc (May 23, 2012)

minirctopics said:


> Now i know! Thanks for ur post.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...


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## Monkey-boy (Jul 10, 2012)

Hi, need your wisdom
Can 6% hydrogen peroxide be used or does it have to be 3%????
Thanx


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## jimdoc (Jul 10, 2012)

Monkey-boy said:


> Hi, need your wisdom
> Can 6% hydrogen peroxide be used or does it have to be 3%????
> Thanx



Yes it can be used you just need less.

Jim


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## Monkey-boy (Jul 10, 2012)

I have done a little test with the ap process and I guess it didn't work to well. My solution turned thick like washing up liquid. Does anybody know why this happened?


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## jimdoc (Jul 10, 2012)

Monkey-boy said:


> I have done a little test with the ap process and I guess it didn't work to well. My solution turned thick like washing up liquid. Does anybody know why this happened?




I think you will have to give a little more information.

Jim


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## Monkey-boy (Jul 10, 2012)

Hi jim, I put 150ml of nitric acid in with about 50ml of hydrogen peroxide 9% (unable to find 3%)
It bubbled and fizzed for about 10 mins and then turned to a thick substance. I only had 3 ram sticks in it and it's not done much.


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## maynman1751 (Jul 10, 2012)

Monkey-boy said:


> Hi jim, I put 150ml of nitric acid in with about 50ml of hydrogen peroxide 9% (unable to find 3%)
> It bubbled and fizzed for about 10 mins and then turned to a thick substance. I only had 3 ram sticks in it and it's not done much.



I hope you mean 150ml of HCl! :shock: Nitric* IS NOT *used in AP. I'm thinking that maybe you need to put everything up and do some reading and studying before you blow yourself up or poison yourself!


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## Geo (Jul 10, 2012)

you basicly added two oxidizers together.


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## Monkey-boy (Jul 11, 2012)

@ jim
Yes sorry it was HCI I used


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## butcher (Jul 12, 2012)

Monkey-boy,

Assuming your trying the copper chloride leach, HCl, and dilute peroxide, and these are the reagents you used, except your peroxide was stronger 9%, you added a lot of oxygen to the mix which can attack the gold, as well as the copper, putting both metals into solution, also you spoke of adding ram sticks, if these were whole memory and not trimmed fingers you also have tin in solution, this tin and dissolved gold can make a mess to deal with, the gold can form colloids, this and oils and dirt on the ram and copper in solution, can be a hand full for a beginner to learn to deal with.

I am not sure this is what you have, but from what I can gather from the posts it sounds like it to me.

you could have diluted the peroxide with water, used less and used air as the primary oxidizer from a small fish tank air pump, you could have also trimmed the finger off the memory sticks and avoided the tin in solution, have you visited Laser Steve's web site and learned from him how to get the gold off of the memory fingers? If you follow his instructions you should have no trouble getting gold from the memory fingers and processing it to refine a nice pure button of gold.


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## wade brenckle (Jul 19, 2012)

I was reading and watched Lazer Steves video on AP with fingers. Awesome to say the least ! I also saw a post in here somewhere, that said you cant do cell phones in AP. You'd would lose value. I only had a few fingers and some cleaned cell phone boards. And a few green, very thin pieces that had paper thin, dark brown transparent film that was stuck to it. Easy to tear off. They had the smallest little fingers I have ever seen. All together everything weighed about 5 Oz's. I used 1 1/2 hcl and 3 oz %3 Peroxide. All in a Powerade bottle. Just an experiment. Shaking hard over 2 days. Most of the visible gold is floating around in the emerald mix. I see millions of pieces ! So small they can pass through a coffee filter.  I see why you'd loose value. Maybe three dollars in gold. My question now is if this were a large amount of gold, can it be evaporated down and dried ? Even if it can be done, there is green stuff from the thin board with the stickies. And pardon my Ignorance, but what is that transparent film with micro looking wires in it ? Thank for any Answers.


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## wade brenckle (Jul 19, 2012)

5 min after I ask a Question I read on to see Lazer Steves answer to Questions about AP. I'll Read that now. Will still listen to an answer though. Even if only It's go read NuckleHead. :mrgreen:


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## butcher (Jul 19, 2012)

That is the advice I would give "Go read nucklehead", it is the best way to learn. :lol:


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## publius (Jul 19, 2012)

butcher said:


> That is the advice I would give "Go read nucklehead", it is the best way to learn. :lol:



That, and "practice in small batches."


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## goldpete (Aug 12, 2012)

hi everyone 
i noticed at the top of this post that hcl and peroxide is the best thing for processing electronic scrap .
thats great for me because im processing computer parts and cell phones , curcuit boards and pins.
now my question is :

my daughter who is a hair dresser can get peroxide that is 12% which is a higher percentage than ive seen mentioned on this post so far . 
will this be ok and how do i use AP ? 
do i still soak my material in nitric first , or is that what AP is for ?

from what i can figure out , AP is used prior to using AR

OR 

is AP used instead of AR


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## lazersteve (Aug 12, 2012)

Pete,

Check out the Guided Tour below and all links therein for details on processes and what they are used for as well as many other required reads.

Steve


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## goldpete (Aug 12, 2012)

lazersteve said:


> Pete,
> 
> Check out the Guided Tour below and all links therein for details on processes and what they are used for as well as many other required reads.
> 
> Steve


oh never mind 
i did say yesterday that i found the guided tour confusing , 
ill just wait till someone else asks the same questions and ill get my answer then


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## jimdoc (Aug 12, 2012)

goldpete said:


> lazersteve said:
> 
> 
> > Pete,
> ...




????


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## martyn111 (Aug 12, 2012)

goldpete said:


> my daughter who is a hair dresser can get peroxide that is 12% which is a higher percentage than ive seen mentioned on this post so far .
> will this be ok and how do i use AP ?



As long as the peroxide that your daughter can get looks like water (not the cream type of peroxide) then you can use it, may supply is from a hairdresser, 12% like you are talking about, works fine.

Please see the quote from Butcher earlier in this thread.



butcher said:


> Monkey-boy,
> 
> Assuming your trying the copper chloride leach, HCl, and dilute peroxide, and these are the reagents you used, except your peroxide was stronger 9%, you added a lot of oxygen to the mix which can attack the gold, as well as the copper, putting both metals into solution,
> 
> you could have diluted the peroxide with water, used less and used air as the primary oxidizer from a small fish tank air pump





goldpete said:


> do i still soak my material in nitric first , or is that what AP is for ?



Better not to soak in nitric just in case there is solder present, tin in nitric is a nightmare, but you can remove it from the mix by pre soaking in HCl with added heat.



goldpete said:


> from what i can figure out , AP is used prior to using AR



With fingers and foils you can dissolve the gold with HCl /Cl which is an easier process for newcomers to use as the chlorine can easily be removed if you add too much, just heat, don't boil, and the excess chlorine will be liberated.



goldpete said:


> is AP used instead of AR



AP is a recovery process, releasing the gold from the substrate, AR is a refining process, dissolving the gold plus any remaining base metals and then selectively precipitating the gold from solution. Therefore AP isn't used instead of AR as the two processes are used to obtain different results in the overall processing of material.


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## lazersteve (Aug 12, 2012)

goldpete said:


> oh never mind
> i did say yesterday that i found the guided tour confusing ,
> ill just wait till someone else asks the same questions and ill get my answer then



What portion of the Guided Tour is losing you?

Your feedback is important so I can fix problem areas with the post.

Steve


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## goldpete (Aug 12, 2012)

martyn111 said:


> goldpete said:
> 
> 
> > my daughter who is a hair dresser can get peroxide that is 12% which is a higher percentage than ive seen mentioned on this post so far .
> ...


awesome , so does that mean if AP is a recovery process ...... then i should use hcl/cl and then filter , wash and then use AP ?


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## ericrm (Aug 12, 2012)

no it mean you should use AP to free gold from contaminant(witch are the board,other base metal,plastic etc etc...)
hcl/cl is a refinning process (or cleaning your gold if you want) after that there is no need for another AP
edit you would use hcl/cl to dissolve your high purity gold 95%(just a number to show the idea),filter to remove big impurity like small plastic or board piece,or dirt,or silver and lead sulphate(when you will be there).
and than precipiate with smb to have clean gold powder


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## goldpete (Aug 12, 2012)

ericrm said:


> no it mean you should use AP to free gold from contaminant(witch are the board,other base metal,plastic etc etc...)
> hcl/cl is a refinning process (or cleaning your gold if you want) after that there is no need for another AP
> edit you would use hcl/cl to dissolve your high purity gold 95%(just a number to show the idea),filter to remove big impurity like small plastic or board piece,or dirt,or silver and lead sulphate(when you will be there).
> and than precipiate with smb to have clean gold powder


oh ok thanks , so basically i use AP instead of a nitric soak ? , then i use hcl/cl as AR . then evaporate etc


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## ericrm (Aug 12, 2012)

exactly :mrgreen:
except that hcl/cl doesnt need to be evaporate to a sirup ,just heated a little will drive the clorine out of solution


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## goldpete (Aug 13, 2012)

ericrm said:


> exactly :mrgreen:
> except that hcl/cl doesnt need to be evaporate to a sirup ,just heated a little will drive the clorine out of solution


thats awesome , thankyou so much , 
thats exactly the kind of info i needed , your a legend


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## goldpete (Aug 13, 2012)

how do i make AP , how much peroxide etc


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## ericrm (Aug 13, 2012)

if you could remove the legend commentary plz ,i feel like other newb will take it as a positive mark on me when i have and still say a lot of eroneous thing,i would apreciate it
thanks

also those kind of info are here all around,you just need to read alot to get them(when i mean read a lot ,i realy mean it pass a few 100hour here you will have all the base knowledge,after that you will be able to go real and gain experience

go read the number 4
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=562
once you read number 4 click on 'Acid Peroxide Must Read' just under


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