# I fell for eBay fraud. Some input please?



## Anonymous

Hello everybody, I've been a member for a little while, but this is my first post.
I won several eBay auctions for sterling silver, and I get ripped-off almost every time! I think I've won 7 auctions and 5 of them were scams. I'm afraid that paypal won't take me seriously if I file disputes against all of them. I did get one refund after a long paypal dispute/claim.
I won auction 310045952256 after the seller assured me in a message that it was silver. When I got it, I held a lighter flame to it and it melted! It was tin metal. I decided not to complain.
I won auction 280223327449 for sterling silver, but over half the items I received where Stainless Steel. The auctions said "marked and tested sterling"!! This is the one I got refunded.
200222456521 -- ok this was the worst so far. You can see our messages in the auction - he says he knows it is sterling. IT'S SOLID LEAD! I've wasted alot of time and chemicals trying to refine it too.
I also just won a 700$ auction and the post office says it was delivered, but I haven't gotten a thing.
How is everyone else avoiding these people? Two people with 100% feedback scamed me. Why is nobody else leaving bad feedback? I'd like to hear about your experiences - thanks


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## Buzz

Hi,

In my disputes with eBay and Paypal, if the seller could not PROVE the item was delivered, e.g POD signature, then Paypal refunded me everytime.

Also, a number of times, i've bought from eBay and when the item arrived found it not be as described. I opened a dispute, claiming as such and when paypal told me to return the item to the seller (at my cost) and PROVE it had been returned, again, i was refunded each time.

I've found with eBay that they will screw the seller everytime, it's the buyer that has all the protection.

I recently sold the Megan Rose plat for cats manuals. It was Megan Rose herself that bought them back! :shock: 

She claimed that they hadn't arrived, put a claim in and got her money back, even though i forwarded paypal an email from the US mail service saying they had been delivered 12 days after i posted them!

Buzz


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## istari9

Buzz is right post a claim with E-Bay and even send it onto their Trust and Safety dept. They will deal with the seller in a matter that is fair. I am sorry to say but you cannot believe all that you see, study what a melted pile of metal looks like. That silver (ie Lead) looks suspect to me. Save all e-mails from your sellers as evidence. 
I am sorry for your lose and hope you have better results in the future.

Ray


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## Anonymous

thanks for the help. Now I realize how well the buyer is protected.

The guy that sold me the lead said he made a claim against the shipping company and said they are sending me the check. This guy is definately crooked.

The package that I said I didn't get - well it turns out that usps just made a mistake and marked it as delivered but it was still at the post office. There was supposed to be 1672g of sterling in that, but I only got 686g. I filed another dispute for that one. I realized something was wrong when this guy begged for feedback before I even got the package.

I thought I was being careful by messaging these people before I won the auctions, but apparently they will blatently lie in a message too. I think you're right, I just need to be more careful. Thanks again!


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## Rag and Bone

My favorite scam auction was for a pile of brass screws as "gold scrap". It went for hundreds if I remember correctly.


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## Oz

lliiiii,

You are well protected as a buyer on eBay with a PayPal purchase. I used to sell a lot of bullion on eBay and always had 100% feedback. Then I had a customer say that they received an empty package one day. Now I always offered free shipping and insurance of purchases at my cost. I clearly stated in my auctions that if they did not take me up on the insurance that I would not be responsible for lost or damaged shipments. 

Now I’m not saying it is impossible that they were not telling the truth about it being empty but it would have taken postal workers playing Frisbee with it or destroying the box. I do know they certainly knew the system forwards and back as the immediately told me that they were going to demand that PayPal reverse charge my account if I did not do it on my own as they had done so several times in the past. They chose to take the risk of no insurance yet still felt it was my fault. End of discussion.

After hours of research on eBay and PayPal I found case after case of even if you offered insurance and told them you had no liability for lost or damaged shipments PayPal still sided with the buyer and automatically would withdraw the funds from the sellers account. For those that don’t know eBay owns PayPal now.

Long story short I refunded the purchase price in full to protect my reputation. I just don't understand how a buyer that declines insurance and knows they are assuming all liability somehow feels it is my fault. I am just glad it was only silver. I will always have mandatory insurance with confirmed delivery built into my auctions if I ever sell there again. It still frosts me! Can you tell? :wink: 

But my point is, you are protected.


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## mike.fortin

Buzz said:


> Hi,
> 
> In my disputes with eBay and Paypal, if the seller could not PROVE the item was delivered, e.g POD signature, then Paypal refunded me everytime.
> 
> Also, a number of times, i've bought from eBay and when the item arrived found it not be as described. I opened a dispute, claiming as such and when paypal told me to return the item to the seller (at my cost) and PROVE it had been returned, again, i was refunded each time.
> 
> I've found with eBay that they will screw the seller everytime, it's the buyer that has all the protection.
> 
> I recently sold the Megan Rose plat for cats manuals. It was Megan Rose herself that bought them back! :shock:
> 
> She claimed that they hadn't arrived, put a claim in and got her money back, even though i forwarded paypal an email from the US mail service saying they had been delivered 12 days after i posted them!
> 
> Buzz



Most round hear know me. Im the won who won those kits you put on ebay. The trackin you sent me still is RI995610432GB. I done just lookd again.its old but still there. I never got nuthing from you and that be the truth. Yea I got mymoney back because dont got what I piad for.Id sure like to know who sined for my stuff cause it wernt me! Id like to call them up I will pay you again if I can catch up withem.
[img:944:665]http://members.aol.com/mylazeboy/buzzenglund.jpg[/img]


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## scrapman1077

ALWAYS LOOK AT THE SELLERS FEEDBACK, anything that looks bad, run away and look elsewhere. Been there done that.


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## Anonymous

scrapman1077 said:


> ALWAYS LOOK AT THE SELLERS FEEDBACK, anything that looks bad, run away and look elsewhere. Been there done that.



I'm not stupid enough to ignore feedback. People I buy from usually have 100% feedback or close to it. Some of those sellers still scammed me when it comes to buying silver (I've had good luck with non-silver auctions). EBay has just stopped sellers from leaving bad feedback, so people haven't been very honest when leaving feedback for sellers because the seller could retaliate with negative feedback. Because of the new policy, this should improve in the future, but right now feedback is still misleading. 

I think sellers should be able to leave bad feedback, BUT it shouldn't be included in the buyer's selling-feedback. Both buyer and seller feedback are important, but they should be kept seperate. Overall, the new policy is a move in the right direction, but it still isn't ideal.


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## Anonymous

OK, here is an update on my situation. The guy who sold me the pile of lead wants me to go to USPS and show them the box to try and "prove" that I didn't receive anything in the package. I replied and said that I'm not the type of person to blatantly lie to USPS in order to help him commit fraud against me and USPS. In paypal, this is still a dispute, but I'll probably make it a claim very soon.

The 710$ auction - well, paypal is spending a very long time deciding the outcome. I filed the dispute, and he changed it to a claim the same day. He told paypal that I'm a liar and that I'm trying to steal from him. This guy lives in my state, SC, so if the paypal thing doesn't work, I'll think about small claims court. Does anyone know if I would have to go to court where the seller lives (3.5hr away), or would he have to come to me?


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## Oz

No lawyer here but perhaps both parties would need to go to the court it was filed in. Kinda hard to be the opposite one would think.


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## istari9

As my son is a lawyer, he states you file the claim in your district and get a summery judgement against him. Then send him to collection and tag his bank account. There is a lot you can do with a winning case.

Ray


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## Anonymous

Thanks. If paypal doesn't decide in my favor, I'll give that a try. The case with the guy that sold me the lead would be overwhealming just because the messages he sends to me is 100% proof of the fraud. The 700$ case would be more difficult, but I think I'd still have solid proof.


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## Anonymous

I don't think this seller has a leg to stand on. You should send the information about him asking you to lie to USPS. As it has been stated here all the burden of proof is on the seller. He can prove that you received the goods but with you opening a claim that the goods received were not as described and offer to return it to the seller there is nothing he can do. For a buyer this works out very well, as a powerseller myself it can get frustrating. The one thing I can never believe is the amount of supposed stolen accounts out there. I get dinged at least twice a month with claims stating that the account that was used was stolen. 

For you, take documentation of the item received. Take pictures of it and even a weight pic if you can. Keep all emails regarding the sale, paypal may request them. Make sure your claim is accurate and that you are willing to return the item. You may have to pay shipping.

I would give you a 98% chance of winning. If you return the goods (make sure to get a signature) I don't see how they cant refund you. Either way the seller has had the funds in question taken out of their account, this is a good thing as the only way a buyer can totally get screwed is if the seller removes all funds from his account. If paypal cannot get money from the seller they wont give you a dime. They certainly wouldn't take the hit~


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## qst42know

Lying about USPS shipments is a Federal offence so is mail fraud. Have you talked to your postmaster? Bring copies of your emails. See if they will send a letter on your behalf. Even the most stubborn crook yields to the Feds. 

Paypal/eBay first.

With the postage paid and added services it would be easy to determine if your package was light 1000g when sent.


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## majorday

I hate scams... I was looking on ebay and saw a few of these silver bars. So i did my homework and guess what I found. It's fake, there all fake. I hope you get your money back. Good luck

http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/

[img:365:400]http://i16.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/fb/b9/a9fe_1.JPG[/img]


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## Rag and Bone

Do you know the composition of those bars? I saw them periodically while looking for silver. 

I wonder what they say? Maybe..."You've been had. Made in China."

It would be cool to see how they're made.

Stay warm muchachos


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## oldtimmer

I have used USPS for years. I have lost too many packages that were deliver confirmation. Delivery confirmation is a joke. Plain and simple. I have had numerious packages that were "Quote" delivered at or around 8:30 in the morning. My mail does not arrive before 11:30. I have gone to the post office to file a complaint and was told that, basically there was nothing that I could do about it. Since then I have made the insurance manditory on anything that I sale. I have not lost a package since I have started it. I also request that the seller add insurance and I will pay for it.

Paypal and Ebay side more to the seller than the buyer. The money comes from seller fees. I have lost a few claims where I had all of the proof, but still lost. I had one seller that did not agree with the paypal findings and split the loss with me and refunded me 1/2 the cost.


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## nicknitro

You would think so but No, Paypal will always side with the buyer unless you have delivery confirmation and insurance. Period. I have been screwed over by Paypal because one buyer said they received nothing on a free shipping 0.99 cent Item I refunded the money, still got blacklisted with over 100 positive feed backs and 100%. It cost me more to sell and ship the item, and then to refund no questions asked after it stated no refunds in the auction. The buyer insisted I was fraudulent. The whole time saying my Item was not as described. Hello, I thought you didn't receive it right?

Ebay sellers beware, Always get delivery confirmation and insist buyer pays for insurance, unless you can eat say a couple grand for the ten ouces you sent off to Joe The Plumber.

Nick


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## hoardpm

So in short. Buy e-bay. Sell somewhere else.


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## nicknitro

Didn't mean to discourage, but yup thats what I do now. I really have no problem with Ebay, It's there company they own PayPal that I can't stand. They get money for nothing and still treat their customers like crap. I think Ebay would do much better if they hooked up with Google Checkout, or Microsoft. Good luck Friend.

Nick


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## Anonymous

I've been selling on ebay since June of 1998 and never had a problem with them or paypal. it's my customers who are sometimes deceitful.

When Paypal introduced online shipping and I started to use this service, it kept my customers honest. Paypal provided insurance and a tracking number.

Whenever I have to use Canada Post for a service Paypal does not provide, I log into paypal later in the day to enter the tracking number the post office issued.

Buying goods off of ebay not much different than attending a live auction, buying a used car or a previously lived in home. You either trust your own judgment or pay a service to inspect.

When spending large sums of money on ebay use a reputable escrow service. Pay the fees and quit whining about getting screwed.

If the seller refuses to accept an escrow your antenna should be twitching.


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## nicknitro

Well Gustavus,

We will have to agree to disagree. However, your comment about Canada post, I thought it didn't matter if you got a tracking number or not, as once it hits customs, they reserve the right to open all mail, and after it enters the canadian post, your tracking is worthless, as it is not honored in canada. That's what the USPS told me, I have heard many more horror stories from USPS employees with international Ebay sales. 


Best of Luck to you as well,
Nick


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