# HCL CL turned red



## plumbers (Oct 28, 2012)

This is a picture from my cell black powder mixed in HCL CL. any idea why its red?


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## philddreamer (Oct 28, 2012)

What type of material did you run thru your cell?

Phil


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## plumbers (Oct 28, 2012)

pens from computers and connectors


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## Lino1406 (Oct 28, 2012)

looks as paint or indicator


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## tek4g63 (Oct 29, 2012)

How many pins?
How much black powder?
How long did it take for the powder to dissolve?

A very gold saturated solution can appear red orange. That's why I ask these questions. 

Also, did you wash the powders really well before moving to the HCl/ CL? Don't know if that would affect the color of your solution or not.


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## Geo (Oct 29, 2012)

did you weigh the powder before you started? was there any powder left? was the weight different? did you use any iron based material or was your cell built using any iron based material? it looks like iron and iron powder would dissolve in hcl.


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## ericrm (Oct 29, 2012)

did you have tiny gold plated spring from hp (theyr are found under the 'pin less cpu), i have had the same result disolving those spring in hcl-cl


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## plumbers (Oct 29, 2012)

Hope this answers all your questions, and thanks for your posts.

tek4g63
How many pins?
I had 4 pound of pins and some gold plated jewery.

How much black powder?
75 Ml in a 500 ml beaker

How long did it take for the powder to dissolve?
10-15 min. 3 additions of clorox.

Also, did you wash the powders really well before moving to the HCl/ CL? Don't know if that would affect the color of your solution or not.
I washed until the rinse water was clear, and tested with amonia.

Geo
no didn't weigh
no iron material that I no off and my cell is pyrex ,lead,and copper mesh.
there is sediment in the bottom of the beaker (see pic).

ericrm
I did have some HP fiber cpu's but i don't remember any little springs,removed them with a torch.


The sulfuric acid i used is liquid fire and it had a red color to it (its dark now). You ask if i weighed the powder , I didn't dry the powder, after rinsing clean I added HCL/clorox to the wet mud. Should i have dried it? I used the instructions that Lazersteve posted in his reactions list, and i didn't see where He said to dry it, but that could be my mistake. I have done it before like this and got good results, with differant sulfuric acid and not as many pins. 
Not sure how I'am going to proceed with this solition, any sugestions?


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## ericrm (Oct 29, 2012)

test with stannous, add water to remove the white stuff(probably sodium chloride),filter,precipitate ... just the way you would normaly do, i think


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## Geo (Oct 29, 2012)

dont toss the solution. it could be a colloid of precious metal. theres tin in the cpu pins as well as jewelry.


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## ericrm (Oct 29, 2012)

geo if it was coloid hcl/cl would have disolved them? 

just in case geo is right add more hcl and javel if the color doesnt change i think your good to go


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## plumbers (Oct 30, 2012)

I added more hcl/cl solution did not change color. Have filtered 3 times still not clear enough to precipatate. when I get it clear I will precipatate and see what I have. 
Geo, I worked my ssss off getting these pins, there is no way I will throw this solition away!  
thanks for all your posts.


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## Geo (Oct 30, 2012)

ericrm said:


> geo if it was coloid hcl/cl would have disolved them?
> 
> just in case geo is right add more hcl and javel if the color doesnt change i think your good to go



thats right. think about this. all the Cl does is add an oxidizer to the hcl to make it work more efficiently. when you dissolve tin in hcl, what do you get? the hcl/Cl didnt destroy the tin, it just dissolved it. once the oxidizer evaporates out all you have left is AuCl and SnCl2 (stannous chloride). this stannous chloride will cause gold to precipitate out anywhere between blue to red suspended in the solution. it would seem to take forever to settle. im not saying thats what it is, im just saying hcl/Cl does not destroy tin and will not remove it from your solutions.


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## butcher (Oct 31, 2012)

What was the reaction when you tested with stannous chloride?
Is there a chance you dissolved some Rhodium plated materials in the sulfuric cell it can make red salts?


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## plumbers (Oct 31, 2012)

Tested positive for gold will post pic later, at work now. It is highly possible that I have rhodium in my cell and solution. Did some jewelry in the cell.


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## plumbers (Oct 31, 2012)

Stannous test picture


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## Labman (Oct 31, 2012)

HAuCL4-4 H2O is yellow. AuCl3 is red. Your solution is orange red (red + yellow) indicate a mixture of both.


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## ericrm (Oct 31, 2012)

Labman said:


> HAuCL4-4 H2O is yellow. AuCl3 is red. Your solution is orange red (red + yellow) indicate a mixture of both.


i think that his stannous chloride result is way to weak to have a orange concentration of auric chloride


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## butcher (Oct 31, 2012)

plumbers,
Try this add a several drops of the orange-red solution to a spot in that nice little spot plate, add a crystal of ferrous sulfate, the test will show a brown ring as the gold is a precipitate of gold around the crystal, now take a pipette and transfer the liquid from this test (the solution barren of gold, leave the brown gold behind) to another spot in that nice spot plate, to this add a few drops of concentrated sulfuric acid, does the solution stay red? If so it is possibly Rhodium.

This can also be used to test for other metals in solution, with other reagents.

Where can I get me a nice ceramic spot plate like that one? That way I can retire my white plastic egg holder that I use now, I like the looks and size of your spot plate.


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## plumbers (Nov 1, 2012)

butcher,
I don't have any ferrous sulfate, can i use SMB?
if your serious about spot plate, flea bay item #310464449346
thanks


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## butcher (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes, SMB would also precipitate the gold in your spot plate, the Idea is to remove gold from the test to see what other metal may be in solution, the ferrous sulfate will not only remove gold in the test but is also a test for gold in solution.

If you have 10% sulfuric acid, and an old scrap transformer, ferrous sulfate is very easy to make, I have made several post describing how to make it.

If I expect PGM in solution my choice of reagent to precipitate gold is ferrous sulfate rather than sodium metabisulfite.


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## Labman (Nov 2, 2012)

ericrm said:


> Labman said:
> 
> 
> > HAuCL4-4 H2O is yellow. AuCl3 is red. Your solution is orange red (red + yellow) indicate a mixture of both.
> ...


I not only see the purple stannous chloride test result but also a yellow precipitate (on the left) an indication of very concentrated gold. (Weak is the correct spelling not week which is seven days)


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## butcher (Nov 2, 2012)

If this was from aqua regia, and a concentrated gold solution then yes the color would make sense, as when concentrating a gold solution of aqua regia we do see this color, from yellow to orange red but as this came from a HCl/NaClO solution, and unless he evaporated it down to the point of large volumes of salt, I do not see this color being from concentrated gold in solution (although I suppose it is possible), if he took his solution this far down in concentration, but I would also expect some value in the salts of possible gold pushed out of solution.

This is an interesting mystery.


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## ericrm (Nov 2, 2012)

thank you for the answer ,i didnt know for the yellow precipitate ... weak/week please do not look at my pass message for misuse of world you would not have the time to do anything else after :lol: but thank you :mrgreen:


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## butcher (Nov 2, 2012)

ericrm, I have no trouble understanding your messages, and I do not know if you speak English or not but I am sure you are doing the best you can.

ericrm, I am just trying to be funny here:
Can I ask if when you typed misuse of world in the (pass) past message did you mean to say misuse of word? 
Seems like I do seem too much time on my hands.

:lol:


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## ericrm (Nov 2, 2012)

:lol: i didnt know if you where serious or not ,anyway i think it is pretty funny... i have brain issue,memory trouble, adult add, and i thin i do a little dislexia(some bad case in my familly, i can wrote a word in many different way in the same text, but the worse of all im a french quebecois that speak english by sound ....... well please offer me some forgiveness as im a "good: person

all in all i think for the low end im doing quit good :mrgreen:


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## plumbers (Nov 2, 2012)

butcher and all 
I did the test you sugested, see picture for results. I had problems filtering I believe it had lead in it because after filtering when I sprayed the filter with water it clouded the top of the solution . After realizing that I siphoned it and now I'am ready to precipitate. The test shows possibly Rhodium (the way I see it), whatever it is since it looks to me like SMB does not pull it down with the Au I'am going to drop it with the SMB and if need, I'll incinerate and then AR to hopefully fine gold. I believe that I should have washed the black powder more than I did. I have over 4 pounds of pins to do and I will wash it better to see if that is what caused my red collored solution.
Thanks for all your help
plumbers


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## qst42know (Nov 2, 2012)

If you carried over some lead from your cathode in your cell powder and put it in solution, precipitate it with a few drops of sulfuric acid and filter before you precipitate the gold.


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## plumbers (Nov 2, 2012)

qst42know said:


> If you carried over some lead from your cathode in your cell powder and put it in solution, precipitate it with a few drops of sulfuric acid and filter before you precipitate the gold.


 
Thanks for your reply , I did that and now have a very clear redish orange solution. Im sure some of the pins i used had lead on them also.


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## qst42know (Nov 2, 2012)

If your pins had silver bearing solder on them dilute and filter your solution to get the silver chloride out. I suspect silver may the cloudiness you see when adding water.


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## butcher (Nov 4, 2012)

From the spot plate test besides a little bit of gold in solution with the stannous test, I do not see much in the yellow color of the test with sulfuric, it is not indicating Rhodium in solution, you could test for iron in the solution barren of gold, Hokes describes the test on page 100 of her book, iron can give a wide range of colors to our solutions like yellow, green, brown, as well as others.

Iron can look a lot like gold in solution, and can easily be mistaken for gold in solution, sometimes testing the solution is the only way to tell the difference, many chemical reactions may not give the colors we expect, especially with many variables involved, although colors of solutions are many times indicative of what might be in solution, the color or looks alone cannot be relied on, testing the solutions is the only way to be fairly be sure what is, or is not in our solution.

There are many more tests for metal anions and the Cations in solutions than the ones we normally use here on the forum, reading some information on qualitative analysis, can help you learn more about testing solutions, when they puzzle you with the colors they form.

Thank you for giving me the Ebay number of the little spot plate, I ordered me one it’s cost was $8.25 with shipping, a very good deal, now I can replace my big plastic egg holder with a real spot plate, it will use up less space on the lab table and clean much easier.


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