# Nickel in Hard Drives?



## hyderconsulting (Jun 21, 2007)

I need some help from the good people on the forum who have had past experience working in the electronics/computer fields to answer this question. I found a reference that the metal backing plates in which the Neodynium Iron Boron Magnets are glued to in hard drives is Mu-metal. Mu-metal is an alloy of 75% Nickel, 15% Iron and the rest being Copper and Molybdenum. Mu-metal has a very high magnetic permeability which makes it effective at screening static or low-frequency magnetic fields which is required for the magnets in a hard drive to work properly. But are these metal backings for the magnets pure mu-metal or simply a heavy plate or clad of the alloy :?: :?: :?: The thing is if they are all nickel alloy then they would be worth something like a dollar or more in scrap value in each hard drive with the magnets removed. Your help is appreciated. I've been seaching the internet to find an answer to this question but to no avail. Regards, Chris.


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## lazersteve (Jun 21, 2007)

Chris,

I've pulled a few sample and will do some tests and post the results. I just cut into 5 different styles of the magnet mounts and all appear to be homogeneous throughout (not plated). 

This gives me a chance to test using GSP's flow chart for magnetic silvery gray metals. I'll post some pictures shortly.

Steve


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## lazersteve (Jun 21, 2007)

Chris,

I followed the flow chart to determine what metal(s) are in the HDD magnet mounts. Here's what I end up with:



 All types are medium weight 

 All types are magnetic

 All types produce 3-6" red spark trails that do not circle the grinder or starburst.

 The 50% Nitric Acid test produced the results shown here:






I had to stop here until I can identify and mix up some solution B as per the DoD Identifying Scrap document. I suspect the items that produced the green-blue nitric tests will turn red when treated with HCl followed by solution B.

If so, these items will prove to be Hi Nickel Alloy as you suspected. Notice that not all of the tested magnet bases yielded green-blue when treated with the nitric. Also note the 304 Stainless, a penny, and a nickel I used as a control in the photo. The red circles indicate where the nitric was applied on each sample.

I'm open to any members suggestions on further testing of these items.

Steve


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## hyderconsulting (Jun 22, 2007)

I greatly appreciate your efforts, Steve.  I had contacted my buyer of my computer gold scrap (Lenny Snow, SMP, Inc. Trenton, GA) about this and he said no way because he buys HD's for 20 cents per pound for the aluminum content and his buyers don't pay much more for them and definitely not for any nickel in them. But nickel has only recently been high in price. Four years ago it was about $3 a pound while now it is at about $18 per pound. It recently peaked at about $25 per pound and is still falling. If the manufacturers are using nickel alloy in them it really would only recently be a big part of the cost since in years past HD's cost a lot more and nickel a lot less. What I'm saying is that the scrappers could all possibly be missing this one entirely for once. The reason I talked to Lenny about this is because he buys nickel transformers scrapped out of high end communications and stereo electronics and therefore knows something about nickel scrap. I also have another reference in which it states there is a half a pound of nickel in a typical desktop computer and monitor made in 1996. That's a lot of nickel, equivalent to about 2 and a half pounds of stainless steel. I never gotten that much out of one yet. I'm about to the point to go ahead and get a couple of hundred dollars of assays on these things to figure this out for sure. I dismantle a lot of HD's all the way down. I sell the aluminum bodies for MX6000 grade aluminum (65 cents per pound), the circuit boards ($1.70 per pound) and the magnets on ebay ($1.00 per set). I'm keeping the platters and have got a stack of them about ten inches high right now. I'm taking a load of computer scrap to Lenny tomorrow morning and I'm going to talk to him again about this with more info I've gotten. I'll let everyone know if I find out something more and will await your test results. Thanks, Chris.


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## lazersteve (Jun 22, 2007)

Chris,

In the photo only 1 of the mounts (silvery mount #2) showed possible hi nickel alloy (green-blue tint). The lower left one in the photo. The others all displayed a very dark color when exposed to the nitric. The final steps of the test have yet to be performed.

Steve


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## hyderconsulting (Jun 23, 2007)

I didn't gain any new knowledge after talking to my friend, Lenny Snow, about nickel being in the backing plates for the NIB magnets in hard drives. I did learn from another friend of mine that Mu-metal shielding is often in a lot of the older computer cases and sometimes attached to the outside of hard drives in some models of computers. I did not know this before. Again the Mu-metal is about 80% nickel, 15% iron and the balance molybdenum and copper. I did an internet search trying to gleam some more information about how, when and where Mu-metal is incorporated into HD's but I didn't learn anything new. I think I'm going to try to contact some manufacturers of Mu-metal or NIB magnets to see if anyone would be willing to talk some about this. Regards, Chris Hyder.


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## hyderconsulting (Aug 10, 2007)

I'm back again! Had some things going on for a while taking a lot of time and attention. Lost my mom and a close first cousing due to illness.   Also my wife, Susan, has been having great difficulties here recently with her Post Traumatic Stress Disorder affliction but is working hard on her therapy to be alright. I have been listening to everyone at times to what they are posting which is always good. This is the best forum on the internet!  

I have learned some more things about the nickel in hard drives. I was contacted on ebay by a person in Canada who wanted to buy all my hard drive magnets in bulk. He offered $4/lb. with the magnets attached, $6/lb. for the backing plates only. HMMMMM!!! I emailed him back on the premise I would consider his offer and asked him if he was buying them for nickel scrap? I didn't think he would answer the question but he did. He said it was for the nickel. I then asked him if all the backing plates holding the magnets in hard drives were nickel alloy? I told him I heard that only a few were. To my surprise he replied back. He said that as far as he knew all the silver colored ones were high nickel alloy. He also said the gold colored ones were not as high in nickel as the silver ones but still has some nickel in them. Would I sell my hard drive magnets in bulk he asked? I replied I don't think so because I'm getting more money for them on ebay than what he could offer as nickel scrap (which is the truth).

I did an internet search to find a buyer for nickel scrap and who would be interested in buying magnet backing plates. I managed to get one to call me which was Specialized Metal Processors, Inc. in Fort Worth, TX. They would consider buying any nickel scrap I had to offer as long as I provided proof in photos and assays as to what I had in stock. What I'm going to do is lease a Niton metal analyzing gun for one day and zap a bunch of different hard drive backing plates to get a wide range of assays. Probably what I will do is take a magnet set out of a hard drive for analysis and take photos of the hard drive case to identify it with the assay. I can then post photos and assays here on the forum.

I also asked this same company what they would pay for the magnets by themselves without the backing plates since they are neodymium iron boron scrap. They offered $8/lb. which I consider a good price.

I'm going to wait a while before doing any of this, maybe toward the end of the year, for one thing nickel is still falling hard in price. Check kitco in the base metal price index section for latest prices. If anyone knows of a reputable nickel scrap buyer then please let me know. I take what aflacglobal has said about them very seriously in the other posts here on the forum for they can't be all trusted. Regards, Chris Hyder.


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## Bernie Foley (Feb 27, 2008)

Hi all,
I really think your right on about the silver colored hard drive magnet keepers and the backers of the neo magnets from hard drives.
I heated and did a little spark testing and it shure acts like most nickel alloys i have here.It definately is solid and i could buff it to a fine polish.
I have thrown many of the keepers away in scrap steel.
I did refining the old way in the 70's. I very glad to be here on the forum so i can learn the right way to do it again.Thanks so much!
Very good job!......Bernie Foley


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## ddrew (Mar 12, 2008)

hyderconsulting said:


> I did an internet search to find a buyer for nickel scrap and who would be interested in buying magnet backing plates. I managed to get one to call me which was Specialized Metal Processors, Inc. in Fort Worth, TX. They would consider buying any nickel scrap I had to offer as long as I provided proof in photos and assays as to what I had in stock.



Hey Chris,

I wanted to see if you had any luck with this vendor? I live outside Fort Worth, and have a good volume of hard drives that I'm disassembling (mostly for PGM recovery). Since these magnets & supports are a good % of the weight, I'd think they would be a good resource for this material. Can you tell me what they required for documentation? My volumes are not big enough to justify detailed lab testing of the materials. 

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.


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## starzfan0211 (Mar 12, 2008)

I live close to them also. Please let us know. I am kicking myself for thinking about how many of those things I have thrown or given away


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## ddrew (Mar 12, 2008)

starzfan0211 said:


> I live close to them also. Please let us know. I am kicking myself for thinking about how many of those things I have thrown or given away



I think we need to start a new '10 Commandments of Scraping' with the first commandment being:

'Thou shalt not thow, or give anything away...'

Feel free to add as appropriate . . .

PS: I claim no ownership to this idea - I got it here from someone much more experienced and wiser than I.


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## starzfan0211 (Mar 13, 2008)

I found a place in Dallas called Republic Metals. I just sent them an email asking about the nickel scrap and since I know I am at least interested, e-scrap. I also asked if they allowed people to tour their facility. I will let you know their answer. Their website is www.reliancemetalsinc.com if anyone else is interested.

Also, in my defense, we just started recycling stuff a few months ago and still learning what everything is made of (thanks to the infinite knowledge on this site). Besides, those magnets are cool and the kids love them! Cut me some slack 8)

Since we are on this topic, who has the best way to remove the magnets from the backs?

UPDATE-

I just spoke with a person from Reliance in Dallas. He said that they will take a sample of the backplates and send it out to have it analyzed for content and then see from there. 

As far as boards and all, they send it all out to a third party and they do not allow anyone to tour the facility. 

Just an FYI.


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## ThePierCer (Mar 13, 2008)

I am very interedsted in this thread. I recycled 1000 hard drives in the last couple months. I've sold the aluminum housing ($1/lb), the screws (.75/lb) {lol.. it adds up} and the boards ($2/lb)

I have been holding on to the platters and the magnets/backings for further refining. 

Any updates on your progress will be greatly appreciated.


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## starzfan0211 (Mar 14, 2008)

Still have not heard from anyone about a good way to separate the magnet from the back. Anyone???? Anyone???? Anyone????? (Trying to do my best online Ben Stein imitation LOL)


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## ddrew (Mar 14, 2008)

starzfan0211 said:


> Still have not heard from anyone about a good way to separate the magnet from the back. Anyone???? Anyone???? Anyone????? (Trying to do my best online Ben Stein imitation LOL)



I found a threaded hole in the base, and found one of the longer screws fit in that hole, and used it to push the magnet off. If you don't have that option, you may want to find a stout vice and use a prybar (sells at Harbor Freight or Northern Tool) and pry between the two magnets. That's how I've done it, and seems to work ok. Just don't get your fingers inbetween the two magnets, It hurts like heck if they snap together.


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## starzfan0211 (Mar 14, 2008)

I will try that. I didn't know if you could use a glue solvent or not. 

They have gotten me before. Yep.. it smarted!!!!!!!


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## ThePierCer (Mar 14, 2008)

i dropped one on the floor and noticed the madget moved so i took a big strong screw driver and pryed it off, and did the same for about 30 other ones. I still have about 50 that were just on there to good to move.


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## RandyD (Mar 14, 2008)

I put the backing plate on two wood blocks, so the magnet hangs down and isn't touch the wood, put my foot on the edge of the plate to hold it in place, then "smack" it with a hammer. The magnet pops right off. 

Don't hit it hard enough to bend the plate, just give it a sharp wrap. If you hit it too hard, you will bend the plate and break the magnet.

It actually works better with the magnet hanging down between the jaws of a vise, but then it either sticks to the vise when it comes off or drops to the floor and may break. 

Try it on 3 or 4 and you should get the hang of it.

Randy


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## synthetiklone (Mar 17, 2008)

Hi,
jumping in here without reading the second page of the thread, so may have been answered already.. but..

I have been doing this for awhile now, but with rather larger neos, and backing plates than modern pc hard drives contain.

My neodymium magnets are 1cm (yep 10mm) thick, by about 30mm square. They are VERY powerful, and two of them stuck together cannot be pulled apart unless you have very strong fingers, and they have to be slid apart. If you get your finger stuck between, they will break the skin, and you have to use something to pry them open, and off. They are wicked, and many times ive called them "evil" little ba$#@rds.. they are!



Anyway, how to remove them from the backing.

If glued, the glue is very strong, and has seeped into the micro pores of the chrome etc, with the pressure of the magnet helping the set. This glue when cold can (in my case - always) will break the chromium layer on the neo magnet, rendering it unsightly, and prone to quickly rusting.

To get them apart simply MILDLY heat the assembly, by mildly I mean dont go above 80 degress CELCIUS at all, and try keep the temp even lower than this. Basically, just hot enough for it to be uncomfortable to hold for more than a couple of seconds. (hows that for a technical laymans definition !). Id say 60 degrees would be a good measure.
I initially used a pot of hot water, left them in there for some 20 minutes to let the heat soak through, but I now use the edge of the barbecue hotplate as I've had plenty of practice and know the temp, and production line, having 5 on the barbie at once - last on then first off is ready to go, and timing perfectly to do quantity quickly.

If you go over 100 degress CELCIUS (not Farenheight) you WILL reduce the magnet strength. Neos dont like it hot!

ALSO, neos definitly dont like sharp knocks, or hard taps with a hammer for example, this will also reduce the magnetism, as it knocks the internal magnetic particles out of alignment. One of my purcasers has a gause-o-meter tester, and we checked some sample damaged ones, with hitting, and heating them, and they lost considerable power, with 160 degC being complete loss of magnetism, and heavier taps with hammer (until cracking) reducing power down to about half. (it was important to me to resell them and quote the best strength I could). FYI, their peak flux density is around 1.3 Teslas, which is very good. These are also known as N45 grade.
Anyway..
When the assembly is ENTIRELY warm/hot, even into the middle where the glue is, it will soften up the glue, and then you can twist / slide it apart, DONT PRY IT OFF.. it may still crack, or damage the chromium plating. Sometimes, a light tap with hand & alittle leverage will cause the bonds to quickly twist apart, remenber, DON'T tap it off directly with a hammer! (unless you care not for your wee neo!)

For my super duper neos, I have to place base in a vice, and use a special aluminium tool I machined up to twist it off, but before this I used an ordinary adjustable spanner / crescent (made of iron, it would stick to the magnet, sometimes rather voilently, causing damage to my finger, or the plating).

Check first, before heating procedure that there are no dimples (protrusions) made in the base plate to align the neo. If they have dimples there may be no glue, or minimal, as the dimple (protrusion) and the maget sits in place as is. For thin 1mm neos, even prying off *may* crack it.
After you have them seperated, If there is any glue left on the magnet / base plate, when it is cold, it can chip off (watch the sharp blade near a neo, it could whip the blade through your finger pretty quick (especially my neos  )

ALSO, if you cant chip it off, and sometimes I require a final clean up, you can use acetone to dissolve the glue.
I havent yet tried an overnight acetone bath for the whole process, as my method for me works well, but this might be an idea to try. Note acetone evaporates quickly in open air, and I'm not sure on pressures for an enclosed container.. pls check if you decide to try this. The acetone has to seep between the two, so may not work well. Also, must mention, acetone is very flamable, use ventilation, and minimal contact - usual precautions, and do your homework, as I'm sure you must, being a member of a group dealing with more dangerous chemicals. 

My interest in this thread is mildly great as I've saved all the backing plates (being themselves 10mm thick and rather large and heavy).
I took them to a recycler as scrap stainless (  ) and they told me: "nope sorry, magnetic, they're only steel", and offered me so little I decided to keep them in case I had a use for the perfectly symmetrical lumps of something I now know as not-steel ! (thanks to this thread)

Phew..

Now my book is finished,  I shall continue on with reading the second page of this thread.

Thank you all for a most intriguing read..


Regards

SK

As a side note, most new hard drive neos are elongated single piece dual poles. That is with both N-S poles on one side. These are great for lots of things, but where you require single poles (great for even more things!), you find the center line, (check it if you like with another single pole thin neo magnet - it will center itself, perpenducularly standing upright, if correct polarity. Gently score a deep groove along it with a gentle dremel cutter, and crack it in half, gently. Did I mention being gentle in this process?  Most of the time (with practice) you get a clean cut, like glass or ceramic tile cutting. You must then coat, within the hour or better sooner, the cut sides with a moisture barrier coating (I used resin). Do quickly as ANY moisture in air will begin a rusting / oxidising process from the inside out, even after you have sealed it.

FYI. Neo magnets are patented with royalties still being paid on every single unit manufactured. These royalties aren't required/paid in the second hand / recycled markets as far as I'm aware.


There you go, neo magnet mastery 101.


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## hyderconsulting (Mar 18, 2008)

I'm sorry for not replying back concerning your questions. I've been tied up on projects this whole winter and haven't had any time to view the forum.

I still haven't done any testing on the backing plates yet. I put the project on the back burner for a while since the price of nickel fell so much last year. Nickel pricing has recovered quite a bit since then but is still not as high as it once was at around $24 a pound. One reason is stalled working on this is that I'm getting more for the hard drive magnets selling them on ebay than what I would get as nickel and magnet scrap at current pricing.

I am going to work this out eventually and post what I find. About removing the magnets from the backing plates, I ran across a post somewhere else on the internet where the user said he removed the magnets by heating the plate up some to loosen the glue and then working a piece of dental floss in behind it. He may not have even heated the magnet up to do this. If I find something out for sure I'll post it. Regards, Chris.


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## Anonymous (Apr 2, 2008)

wanted to inject here if ok. I had access to a Niton (?spelling) so we took the opportunity to shoot some of these peices, and at first it appeared to be 79% nickel.. WoW so we just ground down a bit and low and behold it appears there is just a *very *heavy nickel wash over scrap (steel). 
Blows my Nickel sale. But I thought I would share this info as there has been much talk surrounding this. I hope this helps.

We also shot some hard drive platters and they too showed a Nickel moly wash but when ground down appears to be some nice Aluminum plates ...


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## starzfan0211 (Apr 3, 2008)

Chris,

What are you selling them as on ebay? What category listing are you using? Can you send me the ebay number of one of your auctions so I can look at it and steal some ideas from you????  

Thanks

Robert


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## geekzilla (Apr 16, 2008)

ThePierCer said:


> I am very interedsted in this thread. I recycled 1000 hard drives in the last couple months. I've sold the aluminum housing ($1/lb), the screws (.75/lb) {lol.. it adds up} and the boards ($2/lb)
> 
> I have been holding on to the platters and the magnets/backings for further refining.
> 
> Any updates on your progress will be greatly appreciated.



The boards? You mean the boards off the HD's? If so, that sounds like a pretty good price. My family and I have been going through our hard drive supply and have separated every part-group into its own container until we figure out what is the best way to recycle (a.k.a., get money for) each part. 

Do you take the flat-packs off the boards first? What about the pins? Do you pull them off for gold recovery first?

Chris


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## synthetiklone (Jun 7, 2008)

ANALYSIS UPDATE:

On my huge heavy neo magnet holder plates. The ones I had were 10mm thick, and were curved like a C shape to accomodate the two large neos.
Confirmed that they are Mu-metal, and indeed have nickel in them, but mostly on a very thin surface layer.
I took the lot (about 30kg) to a local recycler to analyse with test gear.
They tested surface and found 85/15 nickel/iron %, and cut in half, tested center to find 2/98 nickel/iron %, and the same with a micron abraded surface.

So there you go, mostly iron with 2% nickel, and a fine surface layer of nickel, probably there to simply protect the iron from rusting.

These figures are from *MY* Mu-metal pieces, and are quoted from memory, I have exact written down somewhere and will edit when and if I can.

I got about NZ$16 for the iron content, with the nickel classed as a contaminant!

SK


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## GeeDub (Feb 9, 2009)

ThePierCer said:


> I've sold the aluminum housing ($1/lb), the screws (.75/lb)



???????
Is there something about Hard Drive screws that I am missing?
-G


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## pimpneightez (Jun 22, 2011)

GeeDub said:


> ThePierCer said:
> 
> 
> > I've sold the aluminum housing ($1/lb), the screws (.75/lb)
> ...


could be stainless or aluminum.


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## Photobacterium (Dec 7, 2011)

some of the projects I worked on as a design engineer involved using high-nickel content steels for electro-magnets.

we used them because of their material properties, Mu-R and maximum flux density "off the charts".

the Alloy I like personally is Allegheny Ludlum 4750. The first time I used it was for creating a magnetic field for an YiG sphere, the second time was for a surgical electromagnet.

Because the hard drive manufacturers have gone to the trouble of paying for neodymium magnets, it is just plain logical that they would use a steel that "likes" to carry magnet flux "lines".


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## Smack (Dec 7, 2011)

Almost always the Phillips head hard drive screws are just steel and the Torx bit screws are always SST. (stainless). Watch on some screws on other things that are not magnetic they can be plated brass and worth more as brass scrap.


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