# Metallurgy Masters



## Jmk88 (Jun 27, 2020)

I was debating whether to post this here or in ideas...

But wouldn’t a reality show on metallurgy similar to like, the cooking reality programmes be a good idea? 

Hoke said something super inspiring along the lines of “I’m a master of metals. I can manipulate any metallic solutions to separate each one with a great efficiency”. Wording may be off slightly. I believe it was in a newspaper from a long time ago.

A good programme would be something like giving a group of competitors a set amount of filthy solution full of oxides and hydroxides to separate out with the winner being the one that is able to most efficiently produce noble/precious metals at the end? 

I would love to watch/participate in something like that. Other ideas would be they are taken to a place with lots of junk material to choose and process. It could be individuals or teams? 

I think it would be a popular product.


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 27, 2020)

It could be very popular in this group of people and its affiliates :mrgreen: 
But it may be off the territory within the general populous.
I may be completely wrong though 8)


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## kurtak (Jun 27, 2020)

This has already been tried - didn't work out

:arrow: TV Show Casting!

Kurt


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## Jmk88 (Jun 27, 2020)

No what I’m talking about is different.... 

It wouldn’t be about e waste or home refinery.... on the contrary. It would be a competition for people that are above hobby level...

They are given say 4K of metal wastes mixed, iron, copper, silver and gold. Each has the same amount of metal. The task would be to separate each one and melt into metallic form. The one with the highest overall efficiency wins. Could even chuck platinum in just to really separate the pros.


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## Jmk88 (Jun 27, 2020)

I don’t think it would expose industry processes either.

It would simply be based on metallurgy rather than PMs. Nor would it need to even discuss source of material.

I’m talking purely from a skill perspective. In fact... it would be quite a good opportunity to express just how dangerous and destructive the practices can be.


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## jimdoc (Jun 27, 2020)

How many "Metallurgy Nerds" do you think there are in this world?
Most of them are here.


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## Jmk88 (Jun 27, 2020)

I think people find other peoples abilities and intelligence interesting.

I’m not sure every one would see a mix of metallic oxides and want to try to separate them! But I think they would enjoy watching it.


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## jimdoc (Jun 27, 2020)

People nowadays have limited attention spans, and weird tastes. Really weird tastes.


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## butcher (Jun 27, 2020)

I agree people today do have very short attention spans, as well as expect everything to be quick and easy, or just given to them, not willing to put in the years of labor needed to learn a skill, like expecting to learn how to recover and refine metals precious metals from toxic solutions for example from watching a few youtube videos...

Seems we spend more time and trouble trying to get these fellers out of a mess than we do helping them learn these skills.

Then there are the few individuals that overcome their own gold fever and buckle down to learn these skills, those with longer attention spans who were willing to put in the hard work to learn. Who also seem to be the individuals that spend a lot of their time trying to help others learn a little of these skills without poisoning themselves.


I guess I have a very short attention span too, I would not wish to waste my time watching some videos of some guy trying to extract metals and recover them from some toxic mess they made, I feel I have better ways to waste the short time I have left to learn more.


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## Jmk88 (Jun 27, 2020)

I don’t really bother even trying to help them people. It’s a waste of time.

I’m not really talking about a guy that’s made a mess... I’m talking about a purpose made mess.

You lot just don’t have my vision basically....

I’m always ahead of the curve.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jun 27, 2020)

Jmk88 said:


> You lot just don’t have my vision basically....
> 
> I’m always ahead of the curve.



Why do you feel a need to insult those who disagree with you?

Dave


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## galenrog (Jun 27, 2020)

Follow the link Kurtak provided. Michael provided his email address. If he still works there, he may still be interested.

Time for more coffee.


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## Jmk88 (Jun 27, 2020)

It was a joke Dave.... lighten up.

Why are you always so full of joy? 

And anyway who would even find that offensive? What are you a princess?


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## Jmk88 (Jun 27, 2020)

“Why do you feel a need to insult those who disagree with you?”

Dave


Dave don’t think you can do me like you did Jon.

:lol:


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## Lou (Jun 27, 2020)

We colonists just have trouble understanding you Brits’ advanced humo(u)r.


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## galenrog (Jun 27, 2020)

Lou said:


> We colonists just have trouble understanding you Brits’ advanced humo(u)r.



I have relatives that are English. I understand this statement. Except that it is not “advanced”.

Time for more coffee.


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## niks neims (Jun 28, 2020)

Jmk88 said:


> Dave don’t think you can do me like you did Jon.



get your head out of your butt, Jon was miles higher & better for this place than you'll ever be, some nerve you have comparing you to himself; and yet his arrogance got the best of him and, sadly, he left... though, I liked to poke fun at him and did disagree a lot, I must admit, since he choose to leave I find this place has lost a bit of the fun and with it some pull for my interest  

now I come here for the convenient kitco ticker, mostly 

I was sure sooner or later there will be another rebel to challenge the authority and rustle up this place a bit, I just hoped that he will bring along something else than just plain toxic ungrounded arrogance ;/


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## jimdoc (Jun 28, 2020)

niks neims said:


> now I come here for the convenient kitco ticker, mostly



There are times that even that ticker can not be trusted.


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## kurtak (Jun 28, 2020)

Jmk88 said:


> No what I’m talking about is different....
> 
> It wouldn’t be about e waste or home refinery.... on the contrary. It would be a competition for people that are above hobby level...
> 
> They are given say 4K of metal wastes mixed, iron, copper, silver and gold. Each has the same amount of metal. The task would be to separate each one and melt into metallic form. The one with the highest overall efficiency wins. Could even chuck platinum in just to really separate the pros.



No - what you are talking about - is the same thing as proposed in the thread I posted a link to

Whether its a show like Gold Rush - or Moonshiners - or Gold Recovery from E-waste - or refining in general - it's ALL about competition

At the end of a Gold Rush show - which competitor got the most gold at the end of the week

At the end of Moonshiners - which competitor got the best/most distilled spirts

Locker Wars - in the end it's a question of which competitor (storage unit buyer) got the best find

Etc. Etc. --- ALL these shows are about competition

If you read the "whole" thread I provided a link to - you will see that at first I thought it was a bad Idea - but then changed to actually trying to "promote" the idea

Here is the problem - in order to do such a show - the producer (like Discovery) has to have competitors (they prefer at least 9 --- or more which can be weeded out to 4 - 5) AND they need them ALL to be with in a few hours drive (prefer no more then 3 - 4 hours) of each other

That is so that they can go from one competitor to the next in order to cover/record each competitor for the results of a one week show --- in other words - you need to find enough competitors in a relatively small area for them to first look at - & then weed them down to a number needed to actually do the show

In other words - to do a one week show they need all the competitors to be relatively local - not spread all over the world

At least that is what Mike (from discovery) told me when I talked to him on the phone --- he told me (because I lived in Wisconsin) we could do the show IF (big if) I could find enough competitors within a relatively small mid west area of the USA --- on the other hand - if the only other competitors I could find were spread out all over the greater USA they (Discovery) would not be able to do the show because of time constraints going from competitor to competitor to do a one week show (each week)

Just my two cents - based on my actually talking to (Mike) an actual producer of these type shows

In other words - likely not going to happen

Kurt


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## Jmk88 (Jun 28, 2020)

Nick Neims is definitely Jon’s other account.... I’m just saying.

Or his boyfriend. One of the two.


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## kurtak (Jun 28, 2020)

Jmk88 said:


> Nick Neims is definitely Jon’s other account.... I’m just saying.
> 
> Or his boyfriend. One of the two.



Really :?: Dave (&/or some other Mod) please don't tell me we are going to have to put up with this kind of crap - again :shock: :roll: :?: :!: 

Kurt


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## kurtak (Jun 28, 2020)

jimdoc said:


> niks neims said:
> 
> 
> > now I come here for the convenient kitco ticker, mostly
> ...



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Kurt


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## Jmk88 (Jun 28, 2020)

Kurt there is nothing wrong with having a boyfriend...

I’m personally more towards the thought it’s his other account.

And how am I even a rebel? What does that even mean? What because I dare to answer back green names? And yellow ones? 

I literally suggested a tv show and the usual suspects are getting all upset about it. I eat bully’s for fun. It’s like a hobby of mine. I seek them out and enjoy their competition. It saves them picking on people that don’t enjoy it.


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## jimdoc (Jun 28, 2020)

Jmk88 said:


> Kurt there is nothing wrong with having a boyfriend...
> 
> I’m personally more towards the thought it’s his other account.
> 
> ...



If that is why you are here, for your amusement, you shouldn't be here long.
There are people here to handle that already. I vote this guy is gone, especially if he keeps it up.


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## Jmk88 (Jun 28, 2020)

I wasn’t aware there was a voting process...

And if logic is to be the precedent; your assumption regarding my purpose of being here (which is very inaccurate) is acknowledging ones self as being a bully? 

I was once told by someone “if you’ve got nothing positive to say, don’t say anything”. 

And I was also taught to expect reactions to my actions... ironic given the context of the forum? 

Do you say hcl or nitric are alone responsible for the dissolution of gold? No they both act which forms a react. So don’t make out like I’m here causing trouble and people like you don’t.


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## jimdoc (Jun 28, 2020)

Whatever, enjoy your stay while it lasts. With your attitude problem, it won't be long.


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## Jmk88 (Jun 28, 2020)

If you would like to explain to me what you feel I have said that would demonstrate an attitude problem I am more than happy to clarify.


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## jimdoc (Jun 28, 2020)

Jmk88 said:


> If you would like to explain to me what you feel I have said that would demonstrate an attitude problem I am more than happy to clarify.



No need for that. You are full of yourself. I don't need you to clarify a damn thing.


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## Jmk88 (Jun 28, 2020)

Yes... that has been said before.

Although that’s slightly different to having an attitude problem. 

Anyway, best regards.


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## galenrog (Jun 28, 2020)

So far, this thread reminds me of a kindergarten playground fight.

Play nice, children. I do not want to hear about who did what to whom. Just play nice.

Time for more coffee.


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## niks neims (Jun 29, 2020)

jimdoc said:


> niks neims said:
> 
> 
> > now I come here for the convenient kitco ticker, mostly
> ...



how so? ...the joke probably flew over my head 
I won't be selling any of my physical gold based on that ticker, but seems to me it is accurate enough to gauge the tendencies of PM spot prices; if there is a "+" and a green number under the gold price I feel that my pile of boards have become more valuable, and this has been a productive day for me overall, even if all I did was browse some forums and procrastinate  it's all about perception....



Jmk88 said:


> Or his boyfriend.



I wish, though we'd probably fight all the time and there would never be any beer left in the house 
But I could learn a lot about business side of e-waste from him, he was very stingy about what he would share, but I got the impression that he was very knowledgeable and quite successful at that and one of the few guys on here worth listening regarding business side... if and when he did decide to divulge something worthwhile... too bad he was too much of a sphincter and couldn't get along with authority here, let his ego ruin a good thing and left because of his own damn foolish pride. I cant imagine he's too happy about that currently, I actually think he will come back some day 

don't mind me, Jmk88, your thread is shite anyways, and will soon be gone along with you, so I'll just use it to work myself through the complex emotions that whole Dave/Jon malarkey left me with, since it ended so abruptly.
I still think Dave was 100% in the right (Dave is always right), but why do I still feel sad that Jon left like that, every time I log on here?.... go figure..., maybe I should've asked him out or sent a d*** or nipple pic when I had a chance ;


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## jimdoc (Jun 29, 2020)

niks neims said:


> jimdoc said:
> 
> 
> > niks neims said:
> ...



There are times when you click on that ticker to go to Kitco's site, and the price is very different than what was shown on the forum's ticker. I am not talking about a slight delay either, and it isn't all the time, so you never know when it is wrong. I would trust Kitco's site prices before the forum's ticker.


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## Jmk88 (Jun 29, 2020)

Nick..... I have no words. Rare. I applaud you on that.

And with that, have a nice day. I don’t think we need to correspond again.

Best Regards,


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## rickzeien (Jun 29, 2020)

What in the heck is this guy contributing to this forum. In one thread he has insulted or ticked off at least 3 of the best contributors on this forum. 
If you say black he says white. Nothing but an instigator and not worth keeping him around. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Jmk88 (Jun 30, 2020)

My main concern is that you have a bunch of like 60+ year old dudes.... obviously feeling very threatened by a man 30 years their junior....

“Remove him for having an opinion that differs to ours”. I would argue this is part of the current downfall of first world civilisation. Conformity appears to be the only voice left in today’s world. Ironically, this is always pushed on by the “golden generation”. The generation that have never known war, just gluttony and excess sports and entertainment. 

Your generation has produced nothing but violence on our screens and in our political system, yet your generation has never had a world war or any real contribution to the world beyond nuclear progression. Which has done us wonders.... who’s really the problem, the oppenheimers or the chaps that questions what oppenheimers genius will be used for? I would say in a room full of oppenheimers, the chap would be silenced and removed.

Hence nagasaki and the other two. Silencing voices for no reason is not really something I care to be removed from. 

“Ban him, remove him”. Just like anyone that questions the status quo; that’s why Jon never got on. This is reflected all across western society.

You older generation should hang your heads in shame. There’s a reason our forefathers made sure there was a system in place that almost guarantees people with such a mind never get into any position of real power. 

You have a “herd” mentality and I’ve not “insulted” anyone.


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## niks neims (Jun 30, 2020)

jimdoc said:


> There are times when you click on that ticker to go to Kitco's site, and the price is very different than what was shown on the forum's ticker. I am not talking about a slight delay either, and it isn't all the time, so you never know when it is wrong. I would trust Kitco's site prices before the forum's ticker.



I hadn't noticed that; thanks!


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## butcher (Jun 30, 2020)

I guess that sums it up what is wrong with me, I am over 60, and I have never started or been in a world war.

Not some young snot-nosed 30 years my junior, full of -- well besides himself, which likes to spend his wasteful life entertaining himself on some chat room internet disrupting a bunch of ole farts educating themselves in a useful art.

With a forum of over 49 thousand members, I guess we will have to deal with a few smart ash snot noses now and then.

Jmk88, 
I try to give everyone the benefits of the doubt, but I am beginning to come to the conclusion, You are not here to learn and share with others as much as you are to put another feather in your bonnet, advancing your own ego fighting the establishment like some misguided rebel.



The internet is full of trolls, who gain pleasure from disrupting forums with their misguided agenda's if you noticed they do not last long here on this forum.


If you continue to disrupt the forum, you give us ole farts a hard choice to make, to allow some snot nose to continue to disrupt the forum of ole farts trying to learn, or for them to ban him and justify his ranting.

You are young and have a good chance to learn something from these ole farts, but if you keep up this nonsense you may just lose that opportunity.

I am sure there are things you can teach us ole farts also, but you will also lose that chance if you keep up disrupting the forum.


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## Jmk88 (Jun 30, 2020)

You say troll; I say bully’s. 

You lot keep whining and I’ll keep making my money. I imagine well all be happy then.

Yea I won’t let new people that genuinely want to share thoughts and ideas be put off By a load of old guys who think they “own” the process and the science. Who in reality answer with a variation of “yea it’s dangerous blah blah blah” to any query any one asks. Probably reflected in your self description as the “establishment”. You aren’t. And never will be. 

That’s the beauty. It’s a principle that no mans pen can influence. It’s just your arrogance makes you think you are the establishment. 

I can honestly say not one person that’s commented on this thread has helped my technical ability whatsoever. 

I reaf Lou, 4metals and the rest when I need real help. Or I message KA. Couldn’t care for one person that’s on this thread to ever speak to me again; on the contrary, other than Lou I wouldn’t want any one to really communicate with me going forwards.


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## butcher (Jun 30, 2020)

Due to his continually disrupting of the forum, Jmk88 has been given a month (ban) to think if he wishes to communicate nicely with the ole men of the gold refining forum and learn something from them.


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## jimdoc (Jun 30, 2020)

Thank You.


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## galenrog (Jun 30, 2020)

jimdoc said:


> Thank You.




You beat me to it.

I do not think Jmk88 is in any way a bad person. Just arrogant and self righteous. Similar to what I was before reality happened.


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## kurtak (Jul 1, 2020)

butcher said:


> Due to his continually disrupting of the forum, Jmk88 has been given a month (ban) to think if he wishes to communicate nicely with the ole men of the gold refining forum and learn something from them.



Thank you very much butcher - it is truly sad that after coming back from his first banning & apologizing to the forum for what got him banned in the first place that he had to resort back to the same behavior

Maybe - if he comes back - he will become an actual contributing member

Over the years we have seen "some" come back from banning & become "good" contributing members - sadly - all to often they at some point resort back to their disrupting nature --- so guess we will have to wait & see

Anyway - thank you for putting an end to this - we can now get back to the purpose of this forum - which is discussing refining

Kurt


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## Jmk88 (Aug 1, 2020)

Well if you think I’m going to change my ways.....
I’m not.

I’m back but.... and this time I’ve mastered silver. 

Every time you ban me I just up my game and learn something new.....

I have at that time, produced 5 200g bars of 99.95 silver cement. And I still think my tv show idea is a good one... haters are going to hate. Ducks are going to quack. Somethings you just accept and roll with it. If you don’t like ducks... don’t visit the pond right? 

I maintain my point... anyone other than Lou that has commented on this thread need not contact me going forwards.

Good for you now if you can just refine your childish attitude (butcher edited your CHILDISH COMMENT)

If you can refine your attitude you will be welcome here, if not well then your choice, think about it before saying something else childish.


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## Jmk88 (Aug 1, 2020)

I don’t know....

The way it’s going... the next ban I’ll probably learn platinum.

: )


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## butcher (Aug 1, 2020)

Why not just become a contributing member here and learn and share what you learn.
You have an opportunity not many have, why blow it to the wind over some foolish ego pride?
Let us stop the nonsense and spend our time learning and sharing.

We do not have time for games.


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## Jmk88 (Aug 1, 2020)

I know I’m joking....

We can all have a sense of humour. I’m the first to laugh at myself.

There really is no malice behind me! 

Do you like my silver butcher?


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## butcher (Aug 1, 2020)

It is hard to tell from just seeing pictures. it could be bread for all I can tell from here.

In any case, I am glad you are learning to recover silver, when it comes to the forum or recovering and refining of the precious metals, I do not joke around, I am glad to see you back, and hopefully we can get past this nonsense and get back down to some serious bussiness of finding and getting and recovering and refining.


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## kurtak (Aug 1, 2020)

Jmk88 said:


> I’m back ... and this time I’ve mastered silver.
> 
> Every time you ban me I just up my game and learn something new.....



Well good for you - Glad to hear that in your time away you have "mastered" something else



> I have at that time, produced 5 200g bars of 99.95 silver cement.



So you have managed to produce a kilo of silver (5 200g bars) - which you "claim" is 99.95

I say "claim" because you also said the bars were poured from silver "cement"

Normally/generally when we refer to silver cement it is a reference to a process using copper to "cement" the silver from solution --- this process rarely if ever produces 999 plus silver as this process generally results in at least some copper contamination --- generally speaking - cementing silver will result in silver that runs anywhere from 97 to at best 98.5 - which is then run though a silver cell to produce 99.95 - 99.99 silver

That said - it is possible to produce 99 plus silver by cementing with copper - but - it requires taking "very" specific steps in the process to cement the silver with little or no copper contamination --- &/or you can put the copper contaminated silver cement through some washes to clean it up to 99 plus silver

So - if you used copper to cement your silver - it would be cool if you could tell us how you produced your 99.95 silver bars from your silver cement - did you use "very specific" steps to cement your silver with a purity of 99.95 --- or did you do some washes to the cement to reach a purity of 99.95 --- or did you run it in a cell to reach that purity :?: :?: :?: 

So if you cemented the silver with copper - please give us some "details" on how you went from silver cement to 99.95 bars because if you just cemented the silver & then poured the bars it is likely not 99.95 silver 

On the other hand - your reference to silver cement could be silver you produced using the salt(or HCl) lye sugar process - which most certainly can produce 999 plus silver - is that the method you used :?: 

In other words - tell us more about what you have actually done/learned in you time away --- I am actually interested 

Kurt


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## Jmk88 (Aug 1, 2020)

I just cemented with copper and then I washed it all in very dilute sulphuric. Probably about 10% strength.

I then boiled in water washes and let settle before decanting.

I actually read the washing process here. 

I haven’t melted it myself but a stone setter has taken 31 grams and he has said it tested at 99.95.

I haven’t melted because I washed my crucibles in dilute sulphuric which destroyed my crucibles.


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## Lou (Aug 1, 2020)

I still maintain that a final wash in the filter of Ag cement with borax, nitre, soda ash solution (say 50 g/L borax, 25-50 g/L nitre, 5-10 g Na2CO3) is the best way to clean it up of most everything but gold.


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## kurtak (Aug 1, 2020)

Jmk88

I posted my last post before seeing your picture 

I am not butcher but I hope you don't mind if I comment & I hope you will take it in the true spirit of trying to help you --- in other words this post is in "no way" meant to be posted with malice &/or disrespect

Whit that said - there is something "very wrong" with the silver in that picture

Two things that "stand out" in that picture - that tells me there is a problem is (1) it is so full of holes it looks like a sponge --- melted silver should be "relatively" smooth - with "maybe" a "few" holes as a result of oxygen being expelled when it is cooled - there are WAY to many holes for it being oxygen expelled during cooling (2) it is VERY gray looking - it should be MUCH more "sliver" in appearance

This is what your melted silver should look like (those are kilo bars)

Kurt


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## Jmk88 (Aug 1, 2020)

Kurt - that is not melted silver. It’s silver cement after washing in a stainless steel bowl and then being bashed out. A jug if you like.

Lou - I have lots of cement and I will apply your advised method.


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## kurtak (Aug 1, 2020)

Jmk88 said:


> Kurt - that is not melted silver. It’s silver cement after washing in a stainless steel bowl and then being bashed out. A jug if you like.



Ok - that makes more sense - nice "solid" cake of cement in that case :mrgreen: 

Kurt


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## Jmk88 (Aug 1, 2020)

Thanks! 

I’m going to apply Lous kind advice after breaking it all up. I also have another jug to bash out.


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## jimdoc (Aug 8, 2020)

niks neims said:


> jimdoc said:
> 
> 
> > There are times when you click on that ticker to go to Kitco's site, and the price is very different than what was shown on the forum's ticker. I am not talking about a slight delay either, and it isn't all the time, so you never know when it is wrong. I would trust Kitco's site prices before the forum's ticker.
> ...




Today, right now, it is showing Nov 10, 2019 at 18:20. That's a bit off, time-wise and price-wise.


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## niks neims (Aug 8, 2020)

jimdoc said:


> niks neims said:
> 
> 
> > jimdoc said:
> ...



Yeah, 1460 doesn't sound right ))
Looks like it glitches from time to time


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## galenrog (Aug 8, 2020)

niks neims said:


> jimdoc said:
> 
> 
> > niks neims said:
> ...



It is not a ticker.

It is not a glitch.

It is an ad that links to Kitco.

Got to pay the bills.

Time for more coffee.


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