# heavily laden solution (dark molasses black)



## DarkspARCS (Jul 28, 2014)

Hello esteemed refiners!

I've run a search on this and the search function gives me 700 hits.. lmao. ive really got no time to review 70 pages on presumed answers on electronic questions so I put this out to the community if you so choose to answer I most graciously appreciate you help if you can direct me to a thread that gives me the process.... PLEASE FORGIVE ME!!

I have a mostly hcl based solution that originated as an AP solution that is chock full of metals. I used this solution to strip gold from electronics - yet upon an xrf reading of the liquor has a 53 percent gold and 5 percent platinum based content as a liquid. I've dried some of the solution to crystals and am thinking a heavy borax cover may produce the 14k metal im looking for - with a heavy acidic smoke that must be avoided when firing in my kiln - but I still possess a gallon of the liquor... and it appears the black particulates are not forthcoming on allowing the metallic content to settle. yes... heavily laden solution (dark molasses black), which coffee filters just let these particulates filter through. are there any solutions - besides placing iron into the mix and letting it settle after the electromotive process finalizes - that will grant me the powders suspended in this solution?

Your understanding and patronage is greatly appreciated!


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## Anonymous (Jul 28, 2014)

Wouldn't copper be a better choice over iron?


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 28, 2014)

DarkspARCS said:


> I used this solution to strip gold from electronics - yet upon an xrf reading of the liquor has a 53 percent gold and 5 percent platinum based content as a liquid. I've dried some of the solution to crystals and am thinking a heavy borax cover may produce the 14k metal im looking for


Don't get your hopes up. It just doesn't make sense. :| 

Dave


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## Claudie (Jul 29, 2014)

It is probably saturated with Copper. Did you use Stannous to test it? Put a drop or two of water in it and see if there is any reaction, like a white or light colored cloud.


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## mls26cwru (Jul 29, 2014)

hmmm.... AP (Acid/peroxide) should not be dissolving gold with lots of copper/other metals present ... did you mean AR (aqua regia)? and even if you do mean AR, I would seriously question those xrf results as gold exists as a compound and not in an elemental state...maybe that is messing up the readings of the xrf? Im just saying that 50+% of a solution being gold seems way to high.


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## nickvc (Jul 29, 2014)

Richard I think we need a lot more information here.
If you do have gold in solution then all the other base metals will have been dissolved as well, was that the case? 
You say it's a high hydrochloric acid solution based on AP, what other acids or oxidisers have you used?
If it is AP simply adding more copper as spaceships suggested should cement any values out ready for refining further or melting, rinse thoroughly before melting.
Trying to melt what you have now will lose you values as chlorides tend to be volatile so again I'd lean more to redissolving your crystals add a little more hydrochloric and then cement with copper
The presence of Pt in e scrap is very rare as far as I know had you said Pd I'd be more tempted to believe your results from the xrf so as has been pointed out I wouldn't raise my hopes on the amount of values you actually have.


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## DarkspARCS (Jul 30, 2014)

there actually was Pd, just didnt mention it. it showed a 5% Pt percentage as well. I based the annalysis off of an XRF reading on a silver bar I was turning in that i'd attempted to clean using a watered down portion of the solution to eradicate the copper attached to the silver tabs i'd cut from pre 1950's circuit breakers I'd acquired. the xrf read a 53% gold base on the silver due to the dried chemicals on its surface - which I later cleaned using a salt and vinegar solution. I will get a copper bar and place it within the solution and see if the lixivant will release the metals onto the copper... hopefully it would work better but i was of an understanding that the solution was mainly copper 1 and copper 2 to begin with so if i drop all of the metals using iron - which i will state yes the solution is heavily ladden with different metals - then start over with the sludge id get better results - and yes i used 30 percent hcl on this so the sludge should be considerable.

THANK you all for your support on this it's interesting to note the chemical reactions of this solution that ive been using for over a year now adding HCL. it's apparent that much of my gold has indeed been going into solution somehow, with the only oxidiser used was the 35% H2O2


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## Anonymous (Jul 30, 2014)

FrugalRefiner said:


> DarkspARCS said:
> 
> 
> > I used this solution to strip gold from electronics - yet upon an xrf reading of the liquor has a 53 percent gold and 5 percent platinum based content as a liquid. I've dried some of the solution to crystals and am thinking a heavy borax cover may produce the 14k metal im looking for
> ...



This post by Dave really does make sense!

What amount of H202 were you using in your HCl? i.e. percentages of each liquid?


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## Pantherlikher (Jul 30, 2014)

Hi...
Are you still adding peroxide? If so, you indeed will be getting gold and other Pms in solution.
You only need a cap full of peroxide to start the reaction. Add O2 to keep it going but putting an air pump with hose bubbling in it.

B.S.


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## Claudie (Jul 30, 2014)

35% Hydrogen Peroxide is pretty strong stuff and will dissolve some of the Gold, but the color still leads me to believe it is Copper. I am thinking that if you dilute the solution and let it settle, any Gold in there should settle on the bottom of the container as a dark powder.


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## Anonymous (Jul 31, 2014)

Claudie said:


> 35% Hydrogen Peroxide is pretty strong stuff and will dissolve some of the Gold, but the color still leads me to believe it is Copper.




Only if it makes up a high enough percentage of the AP solution. Using a tiny amount of 35% H2O2 in a bucket full of HCl isn't necessarily going to dissolve some of the gold Claudie.


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## nickvc (Jul 31, 2014)

Jon what you said is not totally true, any oxidiser introduced into the solution will dissolve some of the values or base metals until exhausted, the way to tell is use stannous to test what is in solution.


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## Anonymous (Jul 31, 2014)

I agree that it's technically not totally true, and that stannous should be used to test for the gold in solution. However by the same logic what Claudie said is not totally true, and this was the point I was making mate.


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## Claudie (Jul 31, 2014)

He didn't say how much of the 35% Hydrogen Peroxide he used. If he followed a lot of the videos out there, he could have used as much as 33% volume. The dark color makes me think it's probably more other metals than Gold, but I don't understand for sure how he did the XRF. The way I understand it, he tested a mostly Silver bar with some solution on it, maybe I am reading it wrong. :|


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## DarkspARCS (Aug 6, 2014)

I used the typical three to one in a measured cylander - 3 parts hcl to one part h2o2. the hcl was 39%, h2o2 35%. over the course of a year I'd ad a little hcl into the solution which worked admirably. I might note too that I've stripped pins of different base metals with this as well.

an interesting note is that the small diluted solution I used to clean the silver actually is what coated it with the gold. The silver stripped the solution of it's gold... Wondering if I used silver instead of copper if it would drop out the gold powders, I could gather the silver later however the silver grabbed that gold quickly, and that is what the xrf read...

The use of Stanous in this case imho wouldn't be an available measure due to all of the metallic substances within it. It seems apparent to me that the 3 ounces of silver I have should be parted and dropped separately until the powders are dropped. I was interested in iron only to drop all the meatallic contant out and work with the sludge via hcl alone... this may be my solution but all I can do at this point is get a validation on that outside the silver.

I can take a fifth of the solution and dilute it to a 3 to one with water and run a bubbler in it and see if indeed powders drop but I'm of the mind that the powders dropped would be copper II - which may molecularly be bound with the gold and other pgm content there in - a good possible choice. I could probably do a stannous test at that point...



> Don't get your hopes up. It just doesn't make sense


 I know. that's why I've posted this lmao.... if there is a 53% gold content in the solution it doesn't make sense....


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## Anonymous (Aug 7, 2014)

Richard

Thanks for confirming the volume of H2O2 used. It's helpful. As Nick quite rightly pointed out that's enough to have dissolved gold into solution.

A Stannous test would confirm or deny the presence of gold in solution. For the 30 seconds it takes to do it it's well worth the effort as it will prove or disprove the theory that there is gold there. As you used HCl then the vast majority of your silver should be insoluble silver chloride powder anyway. 

Jon


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## nickvc (Aug 7, 2014)

If your stannous test reports gold in solution just add a copper sheet and cement any values out, decant all the solution carefully and filter the sludge, several hot hydrochloric rinses and then dissolve any remaining sludge in AR or acid chlorox, test the rinses for any values as Pd can dissolve in hydrochloric, in fact test everything always it's amazing how much you will learn as to how and why values are dissolved.


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## DarkspARCS (Aug 8, 2014)

thank you gentlemen... when I can Acquire the needed copper sheet I will work the solution accordingly!

I must note here that in the future I should stick to the 3% h2o2 formula lol.. more gold will probably appear in my attempts!!


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## Anonymous (Aug 8, 2014)

Richard, beat a piece of copper pipe flat and use that. Any decent plumbing copper will do, or even stripped copper electrical cable.


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## richoc (Aug 11, 2014)

5-1 witer distiled water
Tap water co will screw this up bad
Let settle if it turns blue water with black Goo atvyhe bottomthe blue water isccopper 
Keep washing out in this wayvfiller your pour off unfilled the water is clear.
Dry you sludge and then melt it .
Now you can start all over and refine it.


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## DarkspARCS (Aug 17, 2014)

yup - the 5 to one water works the black sludge is on the bottom of the blue water excellent recommendation thank you! AMAZING....


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## patnor1011 (Aug 20, 2014)

richoc said:


> 5-1 witer distiled water
> Tap water co will screw this up bad
> Let settle if it turns blue water with black Goo atvyhe bottomthe blue water isccopper
> Keep washing out in this wayvfiller your pour off unfilled the water is clear.
> ...



What?


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