# Honey instead of Karo syrup?.



## Tankman (Oct 30, 2012)

Do not know if this has been done before (I did search the forum first), I tried using honey instead of Karo syrup. The result was silver metal, but I cannot test it for purity. If anyone can give more input to this, would be appreciated.


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## publius (Oct 30, 2012)

Any source of carbon (from what I can find in my research) could be used. I assume cellulose would also work. I can't see using something as expensive as honey for this process.


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## kadriver (Oct 31, 2012)

I use common table sugar and get excellent results.


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## butcher (Oct 31, 2012)

kadriver,

Does your silver taste as sweet as it looks? :lol:


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## HAuCl4 (Oct 31, 2012)

According to the US Bureau of I dontrememberwhat, the NaOH + H2O2 method is the best for purity, costs, and minimal waste. There's a patent I posted here a long time ago, where they evaluated all methods of processing AgCl into Ag. :idea:


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## MysticColby (Oct 31, 2012)

AgCl + NaOH + H2O2 -> Ag + other?
I'm curious how that happens. isn't H2O2 an oxidizer? and shouldn't Ag2O need reducing to get to Ag? seems like it's the opposite of what is needed.
maybe Ag2O + H2O2 -> 2Ag + O2 + H2O?
I can see that being a very clean reaction if it works. how quickly does it go?


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## butcher (Oct 31, 2012)

I believe the peroxide can also be a reducer in the caustic solution.

Hydrogen peroxide can act as an oxidizer or act as a reducer depending on the reaction it is used in.

I have used the reaction with converting silver chloride and it does work well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide


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## MysticColby (Nov 9, 2012)

I was looking into the possibility of adding H2O2 at the same time as NaOH (to a beaker of AgCl in water).
Looks like H2O2 and NaOH react to form Na2O2 (at least in concentrated forms, I'm not sure about dilute), but it might be a reversible equilibrium reaction.
Is this a problem or should all NaOH be removed before adding H2O2?
I notice HCl does not react with H2O2, maybe that could be used to remove all NaOH before adding H2O2?


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## butcher (Nov 9, 2012)

If sodium peroxide (Na2O2) is formed in this reaction, the reaction should go further, as there is water involved in the solution.
Sodium peroxide and water will form sodium hydroxide and hydrogen peroxide:
Na2O2 + H2O --> 2NaOH + H2O2
The hydrogen peroxide would further decompose in solution leaving the solution basic,
Forming sodium hydroxide, water, and oxygen gas.
NaOH + H2O2 --> NaOH + H2O + O2 (gas)

I would not wash the silver oxides in HCl you would form silver chlorides of the fine powder, even if the whole crystal of silver oxide did not convert to chloride these crystals of silver would be coated in a silver chloride shell.


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## MysticColby (Nov 12, 2012)

Thanks for the help 
I recently realized my work uses silver halide films, so I offered to take the ones we throw away off their hands for them ^_^


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## saadat68 (Aug 10, 2018)

Because table sugar is non-reducing so we can not use it 

Can we use date syrup? date has many glucose 
Glucose of date is 103 and glucose of corn syrup is 115


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## g_axelsson (Aug 10, 2018)

publius said:



> Any source of carbon (from what I can find in my research) could be used. I assume cellulose would also work. I can't see using something as expensive as honey for this process.


This is an old post but I can't see anyone commenting on this yet.

Carbon is very inert at room temperature so it won't work. There is a huge difference between carbon and it's compounds. To turn silver oxide into silver at room temperature we need something that can work as a reducer at that temperature.

Karo syrup is a glucose syrup so it contains glucose, a reducing sugar. The common white sugar we use is not a reducing sugar, it's made up of sucrose so it should not work as well as the reducing sugars. But if Kadriver is using table sugar with good results it might somehow work anyway or it might be a mixture of different types of sugar.
On the other hand, sucrose is made up of a linked glucose and fructose molecule so it might break down and react with the silver oxide in the same way as glucose does. The silver oxide mixed with sodium hydroxide and heated by the reactions is a quite aggressive chemical environment.

As a side note, reducing sugars are called so when they have a free aldehyde or ketone group. 

Ref.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_syrup
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reducing_sugar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar

Göran


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## Palladium (Aug 10, 2018)

I use table sugar without a problem also.


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## nickvc (Aug 11, 2018)

I’m with palladium I always used table sugar if I had to convert silver chloride and had no problems.


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