# First Small Batch...I'm Hooked!



## TBoom27 (Feb 1, 2022)

Hi all,

I am new forum member, but have been reading / lurking for a long time. I want to thank everyone here as I finally felt I was ready processed (~490g) of well trimmed fingers via AP. I credit Hoke and the these forums for a successful first run, knowing what I was doing and knowing when I should step back and be sure of what I am going to do next. In the end everything went as it should and I am hooked.

My first run resulted in 2.7g (pic attached) of what I think is good looking powder (to be accumulated before re-refine and melting in a bigger batch.) 




As soon as I refine my bucket/bubbles setup. My next batch(s) will be ~20lbs out new naked RAM PCB cards that have never had chips installed. I need to decide if I should separate the fingers from the PCBs and run them as two separate groups or just leave the cards whole. My gut says whole is fine, my anxiety says separate them so no gold from the fingers has the opportunity to cement inside the board if something gets out of balance in the solution. Either way, second batch should get started this weekend. Woot!

Thanks!


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## butcher (Feb 1, 2022)

Nice looking gold,


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## Liquidau (Feb 19, 2022)

TBoom27 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am new forum member, but have been reading / lurking for a long time. I want to thank everyone here as I finally felt I was ready processed (~490g) of well trimmed fingers via AP. I credit Hoke and the these forums for a successful first run, knowing what I was doing and knowing when I should step back and be sure of what I am going to do next. In the end everything went as it should and I am hooked.
> 
> ...


Very nice cocoa powder! Well done. Lucky you to have found the GRF and Hoke before you ever started; I muddled my way through a few batches learning lessons the hard way until I found the light here. 
I also have 25 lbs (~12 kg) of RAM cards with fingers to process. But these are fully populated with chips, so first I place them on a hot plate to soften the solder and easily remove them with a paint scraper. Now I’m also considering trimming off the fingers or processing them whole. A knowledgeable Home Depot guy suggested a small band saw, where the blade always runs down (safer). But the cards are only 1” (2.5cm) wide, which means your fingers get kinda close to the blade. Need to rig up some sort of wooden block spacer and pushing stick device to do this safely and quickly. Anybody out there have any suggestions or have done this before?
Cheers!


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 19, 2022)

A bandsaw will produce a lot of dust you do not want to breathe.

Dave


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## galenrog (Feb 19, 2022)

Cut fingers with a bandsaw for a few years. Lots of dust. Proper filtering mask and dust collection is a must. Have not done it in several years.

Time for more coffee.


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## Liquidau (Feb 19, 2022)

galenrog said:


> Cut fingers with a bandsaw for a few years. Lots of dust. Proper filtering mask and dust collection is a must. Have not done it in several years.
> 
> Time for more coffee.


I hear you. Got a better way to deal with RAM fingers, or just don’t bother cutting them?


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## MicheleM (Feb 20, 2022)

You could use pincers and a transparent plastic bag , put the RAM module inside the bag and cut it with the pincers to avoid dust


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## AMS-Pro (Feb 20, 2022)

A 6in. straight jaw sheet metal seamer, and a utility blade. Clamp the seamer onto the gold finger and score the ram stick down the edge of the seamer. Snap the green board section off, then open the seamer to remove the remaining gold finger. Voila. 
Alternatively, another option is a manual guillotine paper cutter with a clamp.


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## Martijn (Feb 20, 2022)

Manual metal plate shears is what i use. Clean cut, no dust. 
Added advantage is the fingers are curved by cutting them, keeping them apart and not sticking together in the AP.

If those ram sticks are free from chips, are there any other components on them? Or solder? If not, then don't bother cutting them. 
If you're using AP (without the H2O2), no gold will dissolve, So no gold can cement out.


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## lanemfg (Feb 20, 2022)

I have an old paper cutter like what we saw in grade school many moons ago, that I took the blade and backing off, and made that to mount on on of my steel work tables, works like a charm for cutting off fingers from ram or slot cards. I have also used it with great success to cut motherboards into smaller pieces which makes them easier to burn off in a wood stove to get rid of plastic and resin before moving forward with that kind of thing.


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## galenrog (Feb 20, 2022)

Liquidau said:


> I hear you. Got a better way to deal with RAM fingers, or just don’t bother cutting them?


No, I do not. All circuit boards that now come my way are sold to various buyers that sell to end recyclers. 

Time for more coffee.


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## kurtak (Feb 20, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Manual metal plate shears is what i use. Clean cut, no dust.
> Added advantage is the fingers are curved by cutting them, keeping them apart and not sticking together in the AP.


Yap - that works great - if you have a metal shears

OR -----------



lanemfg said:


> I have an old paper cutter like what we saw in grade school many moons ago, that I took the blade and backing off, and made that to mount on of my steel work tables, works like a charm for cutting off fingers from ram or slot cards.



That's what I did 

picked the paper cutter up at a yard sale for like $5

using the blade from this type paper cuter









Paper Trimmers, Guillotine Paper Cutters in Stock - ULINE


Uline stocks a wide selection of Paper Trimmers. Order by 6 p.m. for same day shipping. Huge Catalog! Over 40,000 products in stock. 12 Locations across USA, Canada and Mexico for fast delivery of Paper Trimmers.




www.uline.com





tried every other method you can think of - this works best (IMO)

The edge of the metal table needs to be a sharp edge - like the edge of a 1/4 inch piece of plate steel

When I wore out the original paper cutter blade I just made my own blade out of 1/4 inch steel (sharpened the cutting edge with a curve)

fingers fall off into a bin under the table 

Kurt


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## Liquidau (Feb 20, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Manual metal plate shears is what i use. Clean cut, no dust.
> Added advantage is the fingers are curved by cutting them, keeping them apart and not sticking together in the AP.
> 
> If those ram sticks are free from chips, are there any other components on them? Or solder? If not, then don't bother cutting them.
> If you're using AP (without the H2O2), no gold will dissolve, So no gold can cement out.


Thanks 


Martijn said:


> Manual metal plate shears is what i use. Clean cut, no dust.
> Added advantage is the fingers are curved by cutting them, keeping them apart and not sticking together in the AP.
> 
> If those ram sticks are free from chips, are there any other components on them? Or solder? If not, then don't bother cutting them.
> If you're using AP (without the H2O2), no gold will dissolve, So no gold can cement out.


Thanks Martijn,
There are 5 flat pak chips on each, about 1cm square. Surface mount so not much solder. AP should be fine. Just need a bigger bucket or use fewer per batch I guess….


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## GoIdman (Feb 21, 2022)

Liquidau said:


> I hear you. Got a better way to deal with RAM fingers, or just don’t bother cutting them?


Since I am not pressed by time to refine my fingers and I am doing it mostly for hobby, i have a different approch to fingers. I try to separate them mechanically and delay to work with acids as much as possible (obviously until refining) and create as little waste as possible.
I have made a video posted on youtube (  )of removing finger foils with soldering iron. I am working to develop the best way of processing RAM sticks with almost zero waste (half way there, the process exists I just have to build the machinery for it  ).
Right now like others stated trimming with a metals sheet cutter works, then AP then refining.

Be safe.

Pete.


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## Liquidau (Feb 21, 2022)

GoIdman said:


> Since I am not pressed by time to refine my fingers and I am doing it mostly for hobby, i have a different approch to fingers. I try to separate them mechanically and delay to work with acids as much as possible (obviously until refining) and create as little waste as possible.
> I have made a video posted on youtube (  )of removing finger foils with soldering iron. I am working to develop the best way of processing RAM sticks with almost zero waste (half way there, the process exists I just have to build the machinery for it  ).
> Right now like others stated trimming with a metals sheet cutter works, then AP then refining.
> 
> ...



Thanks Pete, an interesting approach I had not seen before. I can’t seem to find what you did for depopulating the RAM chips. Is there a link? Cheers!


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## Liquidau (Feb 21, 2022)

Liquidau said:


> Thanks
> 
> Thanks Martijn,
> There are 5 flat pak chips on each, about 1cm square. Surface mount so not much solder. AP should be fine. Just need a bigger bucket or use fewer per batch I guess….


On second thought, perhaps the exposed solder will provide a problem by dissolving in the AP and potentially fouling up the gold recovery. Should they be HCl leached first to remove all tin/lead/antimony?


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## GoIdman (Feb 22, 2022)

Liquidau said:


> Thanks Pete, an interesting approach I had not seen before. I can’t seem to find what you did for depopulating the RAM chips. Is there a link? Cheers!


This was my first and only video i made so far, since i do not have too much spare time (i have two small "daredevil" children  i have to deal with ), but i have a setup with an electric heat gun and perforated sheet rotating drum, which helps to depopulate the remaining chips from the sticks which will go for further processing to recover the remaining gold plating and copper and the fiberglass.
The video is the first of the "0 waste" series i am about to do.

Be safe.

Pete


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## CoinzCollector (Feb 23, 2022)

Very Nice! This is why I am here, to be quiet and learn. Im not old but older and want something to do after I retire. Love coins as well.


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## dpgold (May 28, 2022)

TBoom27 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am new forum member, but have been reading / lurking for a long time. I want to thank everyone here as I finally felt I was ready processed (~490g) of well trimmed fingers via AP. I credit Hoke and the these forums for a successful first run, knowing what I was doing and knowing when I should step back and be sure of what I am going to do next. In the end everything went as it should and I am hooked.
> 
> ...


How did the rest of the batches turned out? Did you process entire rams?


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## dpgold (May 28, 2022)

some rams have gold beside the fingers, I am thinking how I could get rid of the lead and thus de solder the chips at the same time and separate MLCC's or whatever smaller electronics are there as well. The AP without H2O2 just the bubbler, is great but I still don't know if solder (which cold contain lead) is going to affect everything. According to the reactivity series table the lead will make the copper which was dissolved to become solid (cement out) and then you need to separate gold from lead? Removing lead first with an acid bath?


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## Alondro (May 28, 2022)

Liquidau said:


> Very nice cocoa powder! Well done. Lucky you to have found the GRF and Hoke before you ever started; I muddled my way through a few batches learning lessons the hard way until I found the light here.
> I also have 25 lbs (~12 kg) of RAM cards with fingers to process. But these are fully populated with chips, so first I place them on a hot plate to soften the solder and easily remove them with a paint scraper. Now I’m also considering trimming off the fingers or processing them whole. A knowledgeable Home Depot guy suggested a small band saw, where the blade always runs down (safer). But the cards are only 1” (2.5cm) wide, which means your fingers get kinda close to the blade. Need to rig up some sort of wooden block spacer and pushing stick device to do this safely and quickly. Anybody out there have any suggestions or have done this before?
> Cheers!


You can use tin snips to cut off the fingers. The chips on mine I popped off with a small old knife I'd ground the pointed tip off and ground into a chisel-like tip. Getting under the edge of the chip and giving a tap popped them off easily for the more modern RAM cards. Those with the wire leads, I just cut down one side with the knife, popped up, and then pulled off. Did it while watching TV.


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## Yggdrasil (May 28, 2022)

Lead will go with Tin in HCl.
But any gold traces that might or might not be on the surface of the PCBs is going to yield next to nothing.
So the question is if it’s worth the effort.


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## Shark (May 28, 2022)

I trim mine with a small metal shear from Harbor Freight. The chips come off in a rotisserie oven using a basket similar to a toaster for an open camp fire. Takes maybe 8 to 10 minutes to do a pound. Leave enough room for the chips to slide around inside the basket and it helps pry off the ones that are loose.


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## Shark (May 28, 2022)

short clip of the chips being removed.


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## soutex (May 29, 2022)

I've only done RAMs once and nowhere near finished with them, so not sure if my comments are even valid.

Considering the legs of ICs are cheap base metal I don't bother taking them off cleanly by desoldering because, in my opinion, the legs are waste material anyway - I don't see the (monetary) value in recovering that. I use a straight screwdriver and run that beside the body of the IC a few times so it breaks the legs. The added bonus is I then have less waste material to process before I can process the chips further.

As for whether to keep the boards whole or not and whether there is anything else worth anything, you will find surface mounted capacitors that should have Palladium - atleast my research says to keep the tan colored ones, anyway. The flat part of the screwdriver and a little sideward pressure works well at breaking those off too. Cut the fingers off the card. The gold only goes as far as to ensuring a durable connection with the motherboard RAM slot. Under the soldermask, it is Copper.

On a sidenote as an FYI, I once had a Chevy Blazer and in the back, mounted to the ceiling, there was a detachable light that took rechargable batteries. It didn't work so I stripped it. There appears to be a LOT of gold plating on it - I'm of the belief that any automotive electronic device considered for "emergency" use or a safety device will contain gold plating on the PCBs that can be processed along with the RAM fingers. Cellphones and calculators too, if I'm not mistaken.


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## Ohiogoldfever (May 29, 2022)

dpgold said:


> some rams have gold beside the fingers, I am thinking how I could get rid of the lead and thus de solder the chips at the same time and separate MLCC's or whatever smaller electronics are there as well. The AP without H2O2 just the bubbler, is great but I still don't know if solder (which cold contain lead) is going to affect everything. According to the reactivity series table the lead will make the copper which was dissolved to become solid (cement out) and then you need to separate gold from lead? Removing lead first with an acid bath?




I find AP pretty forgiving. Just use one labeled vessel for dissolving solder. Then move them once the solders gone. 

I have a few 1.5 gallon buckets with lids that have been going for better than a year now. Once you’ve got the cycle down it’s just a matter of moving things every now and again. 

If you keep emptys it’s easy to pour off the solution, rinse things clean with Freash HCL poured into the same solution. 

Then AP into the bucket. Moving liquid rather then the material is helpfully


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## dpgold (May 29, 2022)

Ohiogoldfever said:


> I find AP pretty forgiving. Just use one labeled vessel for dissolving solder. Then move them once the solders gone.
> 
> I have a few 1.5 gallon buckets with lids that have been going for better than a year now. Once you’ve got the cycle down it’s just a matter of moving things every now and again.
> 
> ...


I am not sure I understood everything, should I keep an AP batch separately to remove the solder and then use another AP batch to separate the gold foils? Should I wash the material well of traces of solder before I put them in a new batch?


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## Martijn (May 29, 2022)

Read this tread:








Cemented palladium


I had enough free time to work on some secondary stuff I have been collecting. I process whole boards, such as ram, video and sound cards, some CPU's, and a few other high end boards in AP to both liberate the foils as well as chips and SMD's. Through a screening process, the chips are removed...




goldrefiningforum.com


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## dpgold (May 29, 2022)

thank you


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## Ohiogoldfever (May 29, 2022)

dpgold said:


> thank you


Yes, I remove solder in one bath, pour the solution into another bucket, rinse the material with HCL. Pour that rinse material into the solder bucket. 

Then use copper chloride to remove the foils and proceed. 

The tin or lead is easy to deal with as long as you keep it separate from your remaining solutions. 


If my solder (tin) bucket contains foils it’s easy enough to filter them and rinse before adding to another batch. 

I don’t recover and refine in one batch. Rather a series that ends up where it needs to be. 

One of the quarks of using AP to liberate the values. Remove the foils with AP, rinse, then refine.


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