# Cell getting hot fast



## chrishawn (Mar 30, 2015)

Hi everyone 
Thanks for all advice or help with this problem
I have ran several pounds of pins over the past few weeks using 98% sulfuric, copper mesh basket and 4 amp battery charger with a 12v lamp in the positive terminal. Everything went fine as I ran the pins, after about 100-150 grams the cell would start to hit 100 degrees. I would shut it down for cooling and start my 2nd cell. So now my acid started getting hot 100 degrees+ in less than 2-3 min. I figured there was too much water in solution so I started with fresh acid out of the bottle and it is doing the same thing. I checked the volts going into the acid and my meter showed 2.65v and 1 amp so I don't think its the charger. Any ideas would be great
Thanks to all at the GRF
Shawn


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## MrMylar (Mar 30, 2015)

I ran into the same problem last week.

Did you fold the copper mesh at the lip a few times where you connect the positive lead? If not, then that's most likely your problem. If it is folded, then there may be a problem with your charger.


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## chrishawn (Mar 30, 2015)

Yes after decanting the acid from the mud. When I start the acid is around 85 degrees as soon as it hook it up the temp jumps to 97-98 degrees and I can not even run for 2-3 min before it hits 102-104. So I shut it down. Both of my used acids for the 2 cells and the fresh acid is doing it.


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## chrishawn (Mar 30, 2015)

Thanks MeMylar
Yes it is folded over 1 time


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## chrishawn (Mar 30, 2015)

Here is a few pics of the charger


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## MrMylar (Mar 30, 2015)

Post a picture of your basket. Also, it may serve you well to fold it one more time.


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## chrishawn (Mar 30, 2015)

Here is some pics of the basket I had to pull out due to heat


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 30, 2015)

The only things I know of that will make it heat up is excessive amperage or a hot plate.


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## jason_recliner (Mar 30, 2015)

What is the wattage of your bulb? Is that a 21W brake lamp or a 5W tail lamp?

Edit: Scratch that, you said you're getting 1 amp, so you must be using a brake lamp. Try a tail lamp bulb, which will limit the current to under half an amp.


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## chrishawn (Mar 30, 2015)

I am using a 12.8v 26.9w bulb
Here is a few pics
I did look up the humidity and it is at 60% Could that affect fresh acid?


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## chrishawn (Mar 30, 2015)

It is a single filament


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## MrMylar (Mar 31, 2015)

From the look of your basket, I think that's the problem. I fixed my overheating cell by folding the lip of the copper two times and crimped it good with my hands. From what I was told about my problem, which was dissolving my copper along with heating up my solution is that too much current was going down the basket at a high rate. By folding the basket two times and crimping/squeezing the folded pieces good, it limited the current to the cell and I was able to do hours worth of cell stripping with the power being shut off only to change the stripped material. During the whole time I was using the cell, I would occasionally touch the side of the cell and it was only lukewarm and never getting hot enough to be too hot to touch.

While others may not agree, but from the way I see your basket around the lip area, that appears to be your problem. I could be wrong, but it worked for me.

See the photo below for the sample basket. Pay close attention to the lip (top rim). It's folded twice, about 1/4" each time.


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## solar_plasma (Mar 31, 2015)

What degrees? °C or °F? Some of us, I at least, use the alternative possiblities that seldomly, that we(I) need to look it up, what it means for us(me).


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## jason_recliner (Mar 31, 2015)

solar_plasma said:


> What degrees? °C or °F? Some of us, I at least, use the alternative possiblities that seldomly, that we(I) need to look it up, what it means for us(me).


If it's "cool" at 85, it had better be °F.

Also, this. I do like that some wise guy has edited the label. :mrgreen:


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## maynman1751 (Mar 31, 2015)

Your basket looks a little flimsy. Are you sure that it's not touching the bottom and shorting out the anode and cathode through the 'mud'?


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## solar_plasma (Mar 31, 2015)

Whatever, if anyone has a question, I don't want to check the plausibility first if it is celsius, fahrenheit, kelvin or bananas...my pupils get just 0 points each exercise they "forget" the unit - it's lazy and just a no go.


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## Anonymous (Mar 31, 2015)

solar_plasma said:


> Whatever, if anyone has a question, I don't want to check the plausibility first if it is celsius, fahrenheit, kelvin or bananas...my pupils get just 0 points each exercise they "forget" the unit - it's lazy and just a no go.



Do I detect that you may be a little vexed Bjorn? hehe :lol: :lol:


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## solar_plasma (Mar 31, 2015)

Maybe today I am just not as tolerant as I use to be :lol: I have to organize a class project (11-12 yo pupils) about recycling within 8 times 45min (90min are already gone with indroduction and collaborative dismantling of 2 PCs), that will end in an exhibition in front of 1600 pupils (7-19 years old) plus teachers. ... I am quite lucky I have almost everything at hand and know what and how to do 8) triple hooray on GRF


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## Palladium (Mar 31, 2015)

jason_recliner said:


> solar_plasma said:
> 
> 
> > What degrees? °C or °F? Some of us, I at least, use the alternative possiblities that seldomly, that we(I) need to look it up, what it means for us(me).
> ...



Even the map is politically correct.


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## chrishawn (Mar 31, 2015)

Thanks maynman
I did not know it could short out if it touches the bottom. I will try a different basket tonight.


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## bswartzwelder (Mar 31, 2015)

The only thing which will cause a cell to heat up is the power applied to it. Unless it is heating up from mixing water in with your acid or placed on an external source of heat. Using a bulb in series with the cell will limit the current through the cell only if it is wired in series with the cell and power supply.

Plus terminal - light bulb - anode of cell - cell - cathode of cell - negative terminal.

If the light is in parallel with the cell, it will not limit the current at all and full current (minus what the bulb uses) will go to the cell. One thing which may also may the cell heat up quickly is the size of the cell. If the cell is small, it will heat up more quickly because the current density will be higher than with a larger cell with more acid.


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## MrMylar (Apr 1, 2015)

bswartzwelder said:


> One thing which may also may the cell heat up quickly is the size of the cell. If the cell is small, it will heat up more quickly because the current density will be higher than with a larger cell with more acid.


Thanks for the info because that could be a possible problem too. I didn't think of that, just as I didn't think about the cathode and anode being too close could cause a Faraday, or it could possibly heat up the solution to where it's getting to that point of the Faraday effect. 

If you get both the cathode and anode too close, it could make the solution "pop" "INSTANTLY". It happened to me. I connected the positive to the cell, and "POP" and I removed the positive cable. After reviewing the basket, I noticed that the basket was too close to the lead contact as I removed the basket from the cell.

The quickest way to do a "Process-Of-Elimination" is to simply fold your basket at the lip end and post the results after that. It's fast, easy, safe and one way to prove or even disprove a "theory". Just do it. If that doesn't work, then you move on to the next possibility. Read, study, do, and learn from that.

The advice I've received from this forum alone is worth an "UnLimited Amount" of the money I'll ever recover from refining. I would even like to know what your problem could be also because I run a sulfuric cell too. I know that either it'll work correctly or you'll have noticeable problems like whether the cell is too hot. Whether you are dissolving your materials along with the base metals.

Some "seem-so-mysterious" problems are very simple to fix and understand them once they're explained to you.

I know one thing for sure, when I ever do a copper wire mesh basket, I'll always fold my lip at least two times at the rim. It worked for me, and for me, it was and still a lesson learned, that I'll never forget.


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## chrishawn (Apr 1, 2015)

Thanks you guys
I did fold my basket 2 times and ran the last of my pins. It did strip them but did get hot 104-105F after 5-6 min. My cell is in an small dish so that could be the problem. I calibrated my new ph meter and tested my acid and it read 245-265 so I don't think there is much water in the acid. I will be getting more pins soon so I will have to wait to run again. I will post results then.
Thanks again for all your advice
Shawn


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