# Chip for Gold



## ericrm (Jun 25, 2013)

CLOSE to buy :
CLOSE for silver trade :
CLOSE for gold trade : 

availlable unmarked gold 0 g 

(min 10g Au by trade, min 1oz for silver mint bar trade, no minimum with money payment)


I refund 1$ by pounds on shipping for red item on deal over 100$ with paypal invoice and tracking number.


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## ericrm (Jun 25, 2013)

All buying will be made via paypal and requier an invoice if you want to be paid without invoice read the 3rd part


i will buy outright the following : 
price are in cad




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If you sell with an invoice, you can transfer the price in silver mint 1oz bar, return shipping and insurance at your charge. 
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For the material that I buy, you can transfer the price in gold weight and deduct 12% of the weight to be paid without an invoice in solid unmarked gold
ex: gold memory without invoice at gold spot price of 42$cad /g. 15$/42$=0.357g Au by pound of memory minus 12% of the weight


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## ericrm (Jun 25, 2013)

Picture of item will be require before shipment. The material must be already sorted by type of material when i receive it, I reserve to myself the right to send back the package if the content is not as we previously agreed.
Shipping cost of raw material will be at your expense. Return shipping will be at my expense with traking number but will not be insured. I will not be responsible in any case of lost/stolen/border holded material/silver/gold.


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## ericrm (Jun 25, 2013)




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## ericrm (Jun 25, 2013)

...


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## glorycloud (Jun 25, 2013)

You do realize it is "expensive" to ship from the US to Canada.
In any case, just for grins I may weigh up some chips and try and
calculate shipping costs by the USPS to see if it might make sense to
be your first guinea pig. 8)


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## ericrm (Jun 25, 2013)

excellent glorycloud if you could post your location,shipping weight and estimated shipping cost, even if you choose to not send me material, it would be realy nice to have an estimate for futur reference.


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## grance (Jun 26, 2013)

20 bucks for the smallest international flat rate box


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## ericrm (Jun 26, 2013)

grance ,when i ship to the us i dont use flat rate box, i use paypal and a brown box, i usually ship more than 10 lb and it cost me around 1.50 by lb

edit i just did a small experiement with your adress grance . shipping a 5 kg package 30 by 30 by 15 cm expedited parcel with a tracking number would cost me 24.72$ it bring it to 2.25 $ by pound of shipped material.


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## grance (Jun 26, 2013)

hhmmm wonder why it was so much for me. I just whent with what paypal suggested


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## FrugalRefiner (Jun 26, 2013)

Grance,

You answered your own question. PayPal / eBay's shipping calculator is notoriously inaccurate.

Dave


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## ericrm (Jun 26, 2013)

grance i must specify it is price for a package from me to you ,i cannot calculate from you to me... but i would guess is must be about the same...

edit 
paypal caculator is excellent ... ebay is very crappy


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## kurt (Jun 27, 2013)

So your payout rate is about 30% return to the costumer & by the time I figure the shipping in on my end my return is even less 

Maybe its just me but 70% to you on this type material seems a bit high

I am not trying to shoot you & what you are trying to do down Eric but based on my own experience in processing this type material 50/50 seems more reasonable --- I wouldn't mind hearing from some of the other members that actually process this type material

Chem cost of course would be an issue that factors in - I get my chems cheap - very cheap as I buy in large quanity

Kurt


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## ericrm (Jun 27, 2013)

you seem to forget the expense that goes with it ,cost of acid, cost of combustion to incinerate them, cost of waste disposal (because this cost realy do exist),the TIME it take to do them... your 30% is unreal, if you compare as an exemple the blacktop chip witch yield about 4-5g kilo , im more on the 50% minus my expense ratio. 
please do not put that kind of volontary false or unvolontary misleading information here.

if you want to heard more from that material the forum is full of information do it somewhere else ,this is not in general chat. this is a business proposal for the poeple that dont have access or the possibility to treat this kind of material themself.

edit : im realy desapointed about your comment kurt, apparently you think poeple are stupid and cannot calculate for themself. i havent hidded anything ,yield are already on the forum ... thing is that your making false number to make me look bad . plz remove your comment


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## glorycloud (Jun 27, 2013)

I will weigh up some chips I have that I have had in bags around here
and try and send some pictures this weekend.


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## kurt (Jun 28, 2013)

ericrm said:


> you seem to forget the expense that goes with it ,cost of acid, cost of combustion to incinerate them, cost of waste disposal (because this cost realy do exist),the TIME it take to do them... your 30% is unreal, if you compare as an exemple the blacktop chip witch yield about 4-5g kilo , im more on the 50% minus my expense ratio.
> please do not put that kind of volontary false or unvolontary misleading information here.
> 
> if you want to heard more from that material the forum is full of information do it somewhere else ,this is not in general chat. this is a business proposal for the poeple that dont have access or the possibility to treat this kind of material themself.
> ...



I am sorry you feel that way Eric but it just not true - I have a lab set up with 2 fume hoods - I have & do process this type material - I just recently incinerated 30 lbs of mixed IC chips - I am near completion of a new incinerator with reburner & baghouse & am having a new funace built for smelting that will hold a # 30 crucible - I buy chems by the 55 gal drum - I have local (town) & state ( DNR - Dept of Natural Resources) approval to do what I do - If you treat your waste right you should have very little you need to pay to get ride of (especially from this kind of material) - I have clients that provide me with CBs by the gaylord box (just took in 4 gaylords of high grade CBs from one client yesterday)

If your not getting right near 6 grams gold (or at the very least 5) from 1 Kg N/S bridges you are doing something wrong in your process

I have been working on e-scrap PM recovery & refining for going on 4 yrs now & a member of this forum for going on 3 yrs - I read the forum "every" day

I have no reason to bash you Eric - I live in the USA - you live in Canada - your not competition to what I do nor am I asking members to send me the same material 

I am simply stating "what I Know" from my own work on this stuff (at least the N/S bridges) the N/S bridges I have run on there own - other chips I have run as mixed lots 

If you are getting as little as 4 grams gold from 1 Kg N/S bridges you really need to look at your process & figure out what you are doing wrong - when I have done them I have gotten right close to 6 gr 

Kurt


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## ericrm (Jun 28, 2013)

i am at a little lower than 5 g kilo , yield rom patnor confirm my own yield , you seem to be the only one that get those kind of number. but the fact isnt realy there. you come in my place saying my price is unfair, that im bad, and my business plan is wrong. _do i go into your shop and tell your customer to not do business with you? there is no respect in what you did ... _ now if you cannot understand that part, this is the internet and i have not the capacity to refrain you to post that kind of unpleasant stuff here. i do not wish you a good day


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## kurt (Jun 30, 2013)

Eric – I am sorry you feel that way but you are the one that asked for both positive &/or negative feed back --- you may be taking my feed back as negative – but really its not

As someone that is in this business legitimately I am trying to help you understand that though you have a business proposition in place - it is one that I feel is a bit flawed – please allow me to explain

First of all lets clear up the recovery data thing - the one & only time I processed N/S bridges by them selves was to get recovery data & I took every precaution to recover full value --- on 1 lb chip I got 2.87 (so I was close to 3 gr) now actual production is different so I can see some loss in production & I would agree that 5 gr per Kg is realistic for production numbers – so at 2 gr pay out that is about 60% (you) 40% (customer)

Now – IF – you were offering a small batch toll refining service 60/40 for 2 Kg would not be un-realistic – Also IF you were doing this as a toll refining service you should have a sliding pay out scale with a minimum (say the 2 Kg) were in you pay the customer a better rate for the more they send you – Example – 2 - 5 Kg then 5 – 10 Kg then 10 – 20 Kg and anything over 20 Kg --- Why – because time is the real cost factor here & you can do one 20 Kg batch in almost the same time as a 2 Kg – so it would take you 10 time longer to do ten 2 Kg batches compared to one 20 Kg batch & you want to pass that kind savings on to the customer & there by encourage customers to send you larger batches

However – you are not offering a small batch toll refine service – you are running a purchase to process business – which means you are going to buy from a number of individuals & then run them all together in one large batch – which means you are trying to capitalize on running a large batch refining business – but only pay out as a small batch toll refining service

I am not saying there is anything wrong with doing this Eric – what I am saying is that because you intend to take advantage of the time saving factor (which can be HUGE) by running large batch processing of small lots purchased together --- you need to pass that savings on to the customers you purchase from

Again Eric – please understand I am not trying to tell you how to do your thing – nor am I saying what & how you are doing it is wrong or unfair – rather I am trying to explain how many people before you have taken a hobby – turned it into a small business & then grown that small business into a large company

They have followed the known to work business model I just laid out & have done it on their own backs (working on narrow profit margins) not on the customers back – meaning you want your pricing to be such that it will attract, grow & keep your cliental & at the same time be competitive with already existing companies &/or companies that come behind you offering better deals

Kurt


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## kurt (Jun 30, 2013)

Now Eric – speaking of competition – I want you to know that I fully intend to provide this very same service - & much more

Please understand this has nothing to do with a direct attack on you meaning I am not trying to steal your idea – undercut you &/or ruin you

Rather – it has everything to do with my own following the how to grow a hobby into a small business into a larger company model that I laid out in my previous post – this is something I have been working on for about 4 years now

In that 4 years I have taken it from a hobby to what you might call a part time side line business/hobby to a full time business/hobby to what is now a legitimate full time small business --- a legitimate small business that is growing its customer base on a regular bases (I am getting more & bigger clients weekly)

Processing the kind of material you are offering to process has been in my business plan all along – it is the very reason I am building the incinerator & having the furnace built that will take a #30 crucible (which I mentioned in a previous post) another words it is simply the next step in the business plan – which is to go from processing just my own stuff to being able to process other peoples stuff as well as my own

So as much as I did not plan to say anything about it here on the forum until it was actually up & running – I now feel it is only fair to you (as well as the members in general) that this is something I have been working on & mention that it is coming soon – very soon (another month or 2 at the most)

So Eric – to be completely fair to you I feel it is necessary to let you know that when I place my own ad here on the forum I will be offering to buy this same material & do so working on MUCH lower margins & it has nothing to do with a personal attack on you Eric --- I am simply following business models that are proven to succeed 

Kurt


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## glondor (Jun 30, 2013)

Am I missing something, I do not see where Eric has laid out a fee structure. There is not enough information in the posts to make a judgement call on the trade numbers. Has something been deleted? If so, it has removed any information value of this entire post. Deleting IS against the rules......


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## FrugalRefiner (Jun 30, 2013)

glondor,

He had listed rates in his first post. The only one I remember was 2 grams of gold for 1 Kg of N/S Bridge chips. There were other rates for other types of chips shown in the photos. It appears he edited his post and removed them. :| 

Dave


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## jimdoc (Jun 30, 2013)

This whole thread should be deleted because of the removed content.
You would think that he should know the rules by now.

Jim


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## CBentre (Jun 30, 2013)

Eric don't take what kurt said the wrong way. I liked the initiative you took to put something together that would benefit you in the current economic conditions were in. Keep your pricing structure in place if you feel those are the numbers you can live with. You may still get some satisfied customers that are in or around your area, I personally have had to deal with the same type of situation with my business. I can only purchase in or around a 10-15% margin because I don't have the connections like some of the other businesses on this forum. Kurt is absolutely right, and you have to come to a realization that other people on here all do similar work regardless if its a hobby or if its a business. Ultimately people will go to where the money is, in my situation I find that I do get customers who realize that their shipping cost outweighs the profits and in turn sell to me for less by the lb because at the end of the day they get more money in return. It has nothing to do with me ripping people off or being shady, my pricing is in place because that is quite frankly the best I can do at this time. Now if I had the connections I'd probably be offering a lot better pricing but its simply not the case. Hope this helps Eric we are here to help one another.


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## ericrm (Jun 30, 2013)

jimdoc said:


> This whole thread should be deleted because of the removed content.
> You would think that he should know the rules by now.
> 
> Jim


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 

for the others thank for the support ,i didnt get any positive offer anyway, kurt i wish you good luck(if you can do 20 lbs batch you definitively be way more productive than i am) 

i have temporary refrain showing my gold sharing as it is unusefull information *for this tread*at the current time. if you wish to remove the post go ahead it was ment as an offer to buy not a 2 page chit chat....

have a nice day and... why do it always endup on me :mrgreen:


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## kurt (Jul 1, 2013)

CBentre – thank you for the reply & yes you are on the right path to growing a business 

Eric – I hope I have not discouraged you from trying to do what you are trying to do – like CBentre - I to really respect both your initiative & desire to turn your hobby into a business & I hope you won’t give up on it

I just wanted you to understand that going from a hobby to a business is not something you do in one big jump (unless you have a LOT of money to invest because its going to cost you more then you make to start with)

Doing what I am now doing has taken me 4 loooong years of much haaaard work & more often then not working for little or nothing & even now I still can not say I have built a successful business – I can only say I am “working” on it – I can’t even claim to be making a profit (spending money to put in my pocket & buy things I “want” to buy) I am “lucky” to pay the bills & make gas money to get back & forth to my place of business – the rest (& I mean all of it) goes right back into the business

I am working on a razor edge & if markets keep going the way they are I will be lucky to survive --- I am really sweating the last load of boards I sent into the smelter because I bought those boards when gold was at about $1450 & I had to pay the competitive top dollar price to get them

I have a long way to go before I can call myself a “successful” business – I can only say I an “in business” working on a lot of hope that I can keep it going & growing

Right now I have to go to work & finish sorting the 4 gaylord boxes of boards I got in so I can pay the costumer out & get them sent to the smelter - & I hope gold doesn’t drop to much more between now & when I get paid for them & then I hope I can find some time somewhere in this week to finish building my incinerator & the other 100 things I got on my list to keep this ball rolling

Its going to be a LOT more LONG days, weeks & months ahead of me before “I” see anything that comes close to seeing a “profit”

Kurt


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## denim (Jul 1, 2013)

Did I miss something? I would have sworn there was a post from Rusty in this thread. Is he still with us? If not I'll surely miss his creativeness. Is anyone interested in toll refining some chips- memory 4kg, others like quads etc about 2kg? Kurt- do you toll refine? Sounds like you are in this to win this. If so, are you in the US. International shipping rates kill a proposition like this. I'd be willing to do something like 50%. I have sent Rusty a pm but have not heard back from him in a few days. Thanks in advance.

Dennis


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## CBentre (Jul 1, 2013)

kurt said:


> CBentre – thank you for the reply & yes you are on the right path to growing a business
> 
> Eric – I hope I have not discouraged you from trying to do what you are trying to do – like CBentre - I to really respect both your initiative & desire to turn your hobby into a business & I hope you won’t give up on it
> 
> ...



Thanks Kurt, I appreciate the trans-parity. I have spent the past two years trying to get something going for myself, the first was in a totally different field and I can honestly say it never failed but it was a lot more difficult and not as interesting as this industry. Over the past year I've spent many hours researching, building relationships, trying to educate myself and of coarse going beyond my means doing things that other people wouldn't even consider just to make sure my bills were being paid. I've invested my blood,sweat and tears and can say i'm in this for the long haul and I truly believe in treating customers as fair as possible because one of two things can and will happen. 1) people will respect you for who you are and 2) When they get burned by someone else they will always remember the ones who treated them fairly. As for refining it's always in the back of my head but as of right this moment I have to much to lose and not enough to gain to offset the losses and I have simply worked too hard over the past 12 years to get to where i'm at in life.


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## arthur kierski (Jul 8, 2013)

what is the translation for --CBs---?
thanks Arthur Kierski

ps:my yeald for bgas is 5,2grams per kilo


Arthur


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## ericrm (Jul 8, 2013)

thank you mr kiersky , nowing your work value ,and being just a little under your yield is for me an honor .\

i just posted a picture of my latest batch (only one button the rest is unmelted) 

im now open for trade


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## patnor1011 (Jul 9, 2013)

Yield can vary that depend in composition of your batch, size of chips, technique of harvesting... My average is the same, it is in my second ebook too - cca 5g/kg.

If somebody get less then perhaps he had more of bigger types in the batch, more of ones with metallic heat spreader, more solder on bottom part...

If somebody got more then opposite happened to be in his batch.


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## ericrm (Jul 9, 2013)

patnor what you say is very true , i got a batch of ripped of the board bga (with all the solder ball) and the ratio of blacktop vs green board is very lower than my heat removed one, about 45% /65% rather than 50%/50%...


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## g_axelsson (Jul 9, 2013)

I can report a yield of 2.1g for 200g of black plastic tops from BGA:s. I had removed all of the fibre boards and heat spreaders before weighing and processing.
There could be a small amount of gold to add to that number as I just have started denoxing some gold leached from the fine silt that I panned off the concentrate. By judging of the colour there should be at most 0.1g that I missed.

It is wise to run whatever material you remove just to check how well your separation worked, then you know how to tweak it to make it better.

... this 2.1g pushed my gold powder collection to over 50g, soon I'm going to refine it again and then melt it... just some more gold first... :mrgreen: 
... hmmm those flatpacks in the corner looks tempting... see you later...

Göran


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## Phil.elmer (Aug 5, 2013)

ericrm said:


> open for trade : availlable gold 10 g + (min 2g Au by trade )
> 
> exchange rate will be negotiated before shipment
> 
> ...


So this chip has gold too ,, 
thanks dude .


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## ericrm (Aug 5, 2013)

i dont know what specific chip your talking about , but i would say yes :lol:


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## patnor1011 (Aug 5, 2013)

I wish you good luck Eric, I know what I talk about. 
I get odd email or pm 1-2 times per month from guys who claim that they do have tens or hundreds of kilograms of IC. They want me to have them toll refined. When I tell them it will be 30-40 % minimum and that it depend on type and amount I never get reply back. 
(with exception of s/n bga those I may do for tad bit less depend on amount and what is on offer) 

People like to think they sit on gold mine and think you can afford to work for them for free. In my eBook it look easy but every step require a lot of time and tedious work. Watching every step as it is easy to lose values if one get too excited or lacking patience.

I also come to conclusion that no matter how good you are, people will always think that there was more in there and that is why toll refining is quite hard. Your offer is probably the best, outright purchase or swap leaves no room to doubt. You take all the risk as there are IC out there which do not contain gold bonding wires and I can guarantee that there will be some percentage of those in mixed batches. Everyone need to decide which route he want to go - one can process, have it toll refined or sell. Members do have plenty of choice.


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