# Some kind of oxidation / reaction?



## lmills148 (Apr 28, 2011)

Hello everyone,
I haven't been around in a while but the site looks great. I stumbled across something interesting on another forum I'm a member of (an electrical forum?) 

pictures here
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/copper-has-black-residue-flakes-23605/

Its interesting because there are 2 electrical panels very close to each other. 1 is showing very severe type of oxidation.

I thought perhaps someone here may be able to ask the right question and help us conclude what it is (or could be) 

Thanks guys


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## 4metals (Apr 28, 2011)

Sorry but the electricians forum won't let non members see the photo's.


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## lmills148 (Apr 28, 2011)

4metals said:


> Sorry but the electricians forum won't let non members see the photo's.


I didn't know that I'll repost them. 

thanks


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## jimdoc (Apr 28, 2011)

Chinese drywall was causing problems like that. But I don't know why it would affect one box and not the other. Unless there was new drywall put up only around the box with the problem.
I couldn't see the pictures either, maybe you could copy them and then post here.

Jim


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## lmills148 (Apr 28, 2011)

that should work


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## lmills148 (Apr 28, 2011)

as You can tell its not your typical oxidation and there doesn't appear to be any excessive heat damage.


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## rusty (Apr 28, 2011)

jimdoc said:


> Chinese drywall was causing problems like that. But I don't know why it would affect one box and not the other. Unless there was new drywall put up only around the box with the problem.
> I couldn't see the pictures either, maybe you could copy them and then post here.
> 
> Jim



I'll second that jimdoc, Chinese drywall.


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## lmills148 (Apr 28, 2011)

Any Idea what could be in it that would cause that?


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## jimdoc (Apr 28, 2011)

Just google Chinese drywall problems. You will get the whole story.
I forget the details, or I would give them to you myself.


Jim


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## lmills148 (Apr 28, 2011)

ok Thanks for the help guys
stay safe
Lloyd


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## jimdoc (Apr 28, 2011)

This Wiki link has lots of info;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_drywall


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## Claudie (Apr 28, 2011)

A picture of the surrounding area may give a clue.


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## lmills148 (Apr 30, 2011)

CPSC doesn't seem to think that the problem drywall will effect electrical components.

http://www.cpsc.gov/info/drywall/electrical031811.pdf

I'll look into pics of the surroundings.


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## Claudie (Apr 30, 2011)

lmills148 said:


> CPSC doesn't seem to think that the problem drywall will effect electrical components.
> 
> http://www.cpsc.gov/info/drywall/electrical031811.pdf
> 
> I'll look into pics of the surroundings.



If it affects copper pipe, it will affect copper wire. :roll:


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## Claudie (Apr 30, 2011)

Sulfur will turn copper black. You stated that the two boxes are very close to each other so that should rule out anything in the air, unless one was left for a period of time with the cover removed. Another thought, they should be in different stud runs. What is located under the wall that could possibly migrate up between the studs and into one box but not the other?


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## lmills148 (Apr 30, 2011)

All good questions.


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## qst42know (Apr 30, 2011)

I would hate to have to do service work on such a panel. Replacing a faulty breaker you would never know if the connection was reliable.

Anyone read any studies on the plastic insulation being tested? The white wire in the last photo seems to be carrying some staining within the plastic.
Keep in mind the wire may have been made elsewhere as well.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Apr 30, 2011)

qst42know said:


> I would hate to have to do service work on such a panel. Replacing a faulty breaker you would never know if the connection was reliable.
> 
> Anyone read any studies on the plastic insulation being tested? The white wire in the last photo seems to be carrying some staining within the plastic.
> Keep in mind the wire may have been made elsewhere as well.



Servicing or making repairs to the panel such as changing a breaker and leaving the job to your satisfaction is not that much of a problem. The solid wire you can clean up with some plumber's sand cloth and the stranded wire you can clean up with a plumbers copper fitting brush. I keep trying to pick my brain and remember if I have run across this problem before but I can't seem to pull it out of my head. If the oxidation is only on the exposed part of the wire and not under the insulation I would not be too concerned about it except on the ground wire's. Even then I would not be too concerned about it because of the past derateting factor of the ground and there should be some room to play with to allow for the corrosion not to cause a problem.


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## trashmaster (May 2, 2011)

did you notice that none of the ground wires are affected? they look like new striped wire::::


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## eeTHr (May 2, 2011)

lmills---

I've seen black stuff like that run the entire length of the wire, under the insulation.

Or sometimes only a few inches.

I always figured it was bacterial, rather than corrosion. The reasons I thought that is because it only had a thin layer, and no build-up; and it sometimes only affected one wire or two, out of many. Also, it didn't build up onto the terminals, either.

:?:



P.S. I've seen it on outdoor equipment boxes, which were all-metal areas (no drywall).


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 2, 2011)

trashmaster said:


> did you notice that none of the ground wires are affected? they look like new striped wire::::



That is correct in the 1st panel(1st photo) but look at the 2nd panel that is effected(2nd photo) and the grounds show oxidation on them.


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