# Help with Hcl/Cl going clear



## Rprepublic (Jul 15, 2013)

So i am in the middle of my first refining using Hcl/Cl to dissolve the gold and A/P to recover it. The "AR" turned a yellow upon dissolving the gold and I allowed it to sit for 48 hours, then brought to a boil for 5 minutes. I let it sit for another 12 hours or so checked with stannuous chloride and it tested positive. I then added SMB and the solution turned clear. Everything Ive seen has the solution turning brown and the gold dropping. I have read Hoke but don't remember hearing anything about the solution going clear. Is there something I'm missing? Or could it be due to using poor mans instead of legit AR? Any help would be much appreciated. 

Thanks,
Casey


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## TommyA (Jul 15, 2013)

I believe it always turns clear before the specs of gold become visible. You need only to wait awhile for it to occur.


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## Rprepublic (Jul 15, 2013)

Yes but i never saw it go through the brown phase. It was a rather small amount of gold so i can learn the ropes before doing my larger quantities.


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## TommyA (Jul 15, 2013)

How much smb compared to amount of gold? I remember having problems when using too much smb and when the ambient temperature too cold.


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## Rprepublic (Jul 15, 2013)

Probably around .5 grams gold to roughly 1 gram of smb. The temps around 80F. What did you do to get it to precipitate? Thanks Tommy!


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## resabed01 (Jul 15, 2013)

You never said what you started with or how much. Foils are very deceiving as they look like you have lots of gold but in reality, you don't. 
The gold probably dropped when you added SMB but if you had a small amount of gold, you might not see it.
Let the solution stand for a day or two and look for brown sediment collecting at the bottom.
Did you retest with stannous after the drop?


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## Rprepublic (Jul 15, 2013)

I think your right im just being impatient. Im starting to see very minute amounts of powder at the bottom. I'll give it a couple days and then retest. Thanks for all your help!


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## Geo (Jul 16, 2013)

Rprepublic said:


> So i am in the middle of my first refining using Hcl/Cl to dissolve the gold and A/P to recover it. The "AR" turned a yellow upon dissolving the gold and I allowed it to sit for 48 hours, then brought to a boil for 5 minutes. I let it sit for another 12 hours or so checked with stannuous chloride and it tested positive. I then added SMB and the solution turned clear. Everything Ive seen has the solution turning brown and the gold dropping. I have read Hoke but don't remember hearing anything about the solution going clear. Is there something I'm missing? Or could it be due to using poor mans instead of legit AR? Any help would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Casey



the reaction makes the solution turn clear. this is normal. let me clarify something, you say hcl/Cl and then you say "AR". these are two totally different processes. if you dissolved the foils in muriatic acid and bleach, that is not AR. AR is Aqua Regia, and is a very old process thats been used since antiquity. you should know the difference before you start the process. if you try to tell someone how you did the process or need to ask a question, its best to at least know the names of the processes used.


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## glorycloud (Jul 16, 2013)

I just dropped some gold with SMB and I was expecting to get the
normal "yoo-hoo" colored cloud and while there was some cloudiness,
the vast majority of the gold just immediately dropped to the bottom
of the glass container after adding the SMB. Maybe it was just because 
what I ended up with after washing and drying was about 34 grams of gold?

Anyway, it has been a long while since I have processed and refined
anything so it was fun to get back in the saddle again. May the gold
when melted be spherical and not asymmetrical like I usually get! :lol:


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## Rprepublic (Jul 17, 2013)

Geo said:


> Rprepublic said:
> 
> 
> > So i am in the middle of my first refining using Hcl/Cl to dissolve the gold and A/P to recover it. The "AR" turned a yellow upon dissolving the gold and I allowed it to sit for 48 hours, then brought to a boil for 5 minutes. I let it sit for another 12 hours or so checked with stannuous chloride and it tested positive. I then added SMB and the solution turned clear. Everything Ive seen has the solution turning brown and the gold dropping. I have read Hoke but don't remember hearing anything about the solution going clear. Is there something I'm missing? Or could it be due to using poor mans instead of legit AR? Any help would be much appreciated.
> ...



I am perfectly aware of the difference between AR and HCl/CL, however Hcl/Cl is commonly referred to as "poor mans Aqua Regia" hence the " " around "AR". If you fully read my post you would likely understand that I understand that. Having just joined the Air Force and waiting to go to BMT I would rather not use Nitric just to be on the safe side. And yes I am aware that Hcl/Cl is not inherently safe.


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## kkmonte (Jul 17, 2013)

Rprepublic said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > Rprepublic said:
> ...




Oh boy, I can see you getting reamed out here. I've never heard of HCl/Cl referred to as "poor man's AR". I always thought "Poor man's AR" was HCl, sodium nitrate and water. And I fully read your post and the quotes around the AR didn't make that clear to me. 

You didn't mention how much material you started with, and how much gold you are expecting. From my experience doing fingers, the solution won't turn brown unless there is alot of gold in the solution. You also didn't mention if you diluted the solution, how much solution you had prior to dilution and how much you have now. My guess is that it didn't turn brown because you didn't have enough gold in solution (or had too much liquid). Do you see a slight brown powder in the bottom of your beaker?


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## Geo (Jul 17, 2013)

Rprepublic, i do come off as blunt sometimes and i really dont mean to. before you get too deep into what you are doing, i would like to suggest you stop trying to refine until you soak up some more knowledge. your last post shows your inexperience in the field. hcl/Cl dissolution is never and never will be referred to as "poor man's AR" by anyone that knows the difference. i would not try to belittle you on the point but you really should use the search feature and check your facts before you make such assertions. "poor man's AR" is a work around method for people who cant source nitric acid. it is a combination of hcl and a solid nitrate (sodium nitrate,potassium nitrate,calcium nitrate) and even though the reaction is slightly different for each, the overall process is the same. aqua regia is the name of the solution containing the classic formula of 3 parts hcl and 1 part nitric acid. without the nitrate, it cant be called AR. do some searches before you reply to this post.


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## Rprepublic (Jul 18, 2013)

Geo said:


> Rprepublic, i do come off as blunt sometimes and i really dont mean to. before you get too deep into what you are doing, i would like to suggest you stop trying to refine until you soak up some more knowledge. your last post shows your inexperience in the field. hcl/Cl dissolution is never and never will be referred to as "poor man's AR" by anyone that knows the difference. i would not try to belittle you on the point but you really should use the search feature and check your facts before you make such assertions. "poor man's AR" is a work around method for people who cant source nitric acid. it is a combination of hcl and a solid nitrate (sodium nitrate,potassium nitrate,calcium nitrate) and even though the reaction is slightly different for each, the overall process is the same. aqua regia is the name of the solution containing the classic formula of 3 parts hcl and 1 part nitric acid. without the nitrate, it cant be called AR. do some searches before you reply to this post.




I yield to you! You're right I was associating the Hcl/Cl method as poor mans AR. I know I have a lot more to learn just like anyone starting out in this field/hobby. I've finished Hoke through the first time but will probably have another go around at that and Vol I & II. I used the last of my Testing solution and have some more on order, and so I will be doing some more research before moving on. As I said in my other post this is my first refining after many recoverys. Just trying to figure out why the smb is not dropping anything out as of yet. Thanks for the help!


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## mls26cwru (Jul 18, 2013)

one thing that I have found that helps me see the minuscule amounts of dropped gold is to take a spoon or knife and GENTLY stir the solution... it doesn't take much but you should see the fine layer of precipitated metal draw into the middle of the beaker. be careful though, too much stirring will unsettle what has precipitated and throw it back into the liquid you are trying to separate it from and you will have to wait for it to settle again.


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## steyr223 (Jul 19, 2013)

Hey people how is everyone in the head today?
To the op
You said " this is my first refining after many recovery's ,"

Question : did you only try to refine only part of your foils

Like geo said (i think it was geo) foils are very decceiving 
I had a 5 gal bucket when tipped so all the foils (no solution but slightly moist) 
Would gather to one spot ,my entire hand would dissapear to the wrist
This was only 7 grams and like you came from many recovery's

Hope this helps
Steyr223 rob


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## Rprepublic (Jul 19, 2013)

Very well could be, but I'm pretty sure there's still gold in solution. My stannuous chloride came in today so I will see here pretty soon. It was four boards 10" x 4'' completely plated on one side and 1/4 on the other, a couple cell phone boards and 1/4 pound of trimmed fingers and maybe a few milligrams came out. I'm thinking a little more than that should come out. Well see.


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## steyr223 (Jul 21, 2013)

Depending on if the boards you put in were
Some military or specilized sound testing boards
(Most of the time 98% of the plated boards are only
1 micron)you probaly wont see motr than 1/2 gram of 
Au
Now about the powders after smb can be very deceiving
I have seen a pinch (seemed like 1/4 gram) melt into
2-3 grams and i have seen enough to fill 1/2 tsp melt
Into less than 1 gram
Steyr223 rob


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