# How Do You Quickly Identify Metals? Eg. silver, platinum ect



## austexdude (Sep 27, 2008)

Hi everyone!

I am fairly new to this, BUT, I am very interested.

This is what I want to do.

I want to set up an area where copper, alum, silver, gold, platinum, pallidium, and any other valuable metal can be seperated. I want to save this up for a number of years (until just before the dollar completly tanks out) and then cash it all in.

Here is my question.

Can someone help me to be able to determine the various types on elements and the methods used to do this?


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## Harold_V (Sep 27, 2008)

Read Hoke. 

You should also research Schwerter's solution, which is used for an instant test for silver. 

Harold


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## austexdude (Sep 28, 2008)

Thank you so much my friend!

I will have to follow up on that.


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## Lou (Sep 28, 2008)

Generally I do it by taste. If it tastes like gold, probably is 


Aside from the joke, your best bet is to read Hoke, both her refining book, and her book (also available free on this forum) on testing.


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## Anonymous (Oct 7, 2008)

I use the Acid test ordered from e-bay.


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## Richard36 (Mar 11, 2009)

Yes, I can help you out. So can my suggested books. Feel free to contact me, and I'll point you in the right direction, or you can send me samples, and I can Identify the metals, as well as separate, and refine them for you. Sincerely;Rick


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## Harold_V (Mar 12, 2009)

Richard36 said:


> Yes, I can help you out. So can my suggested books. Feel free to contact me, and I'll point you in the right direction, or you can send me samples, and I can Identify the metals, as well as separate, and refine them for you. Sincerely;Rick


I am seeing a consistent pattern of you offering readers to call you, making your information not avaialbe to anyone but the one that calls. That isn't how this forum operates. If you have something to share, do it publicly. If you intend to become a valued and welcome member of this forum, _stop the spamming_. 

There will be no further warnings. Any future spam will be deleted. Be advised. 

Moderators----follow up in my absence, please. 

Harold


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## steveonmars (Apr 8, 2009)

Harold_V said:


> There will be no further warnings. Any future spam will be deleted. Be advised.
> 
> Moderators----follow up in my absence, please.
> 
> Harold



Thanks harold, too many of us read this forum for the info available. Someone like this doesn't need to be selling info on the side by using this forum.

BTW does anyone have a link to the free Hoke testing book, I haven't heard of that one so I'd like to get it.

Thanks,

Steve


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## patnor1011 (Apr 9, 2009)

http://rapidshare.com/files/204807747/Refining_Precious_Metal_Wastes_C_1__1_.M_Hoke.pdf

repaired link


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## Oz (Apr 9, 2009)

Patner,

Thanks for sharing that with the forum but rapidshare says “file not found, please check the link”.


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## steveonmars (Apr 10, 2009)

Patner,

I had the same error. Maybe someone has another link? I'll search for it again and if I find it I'll post a link.

Thanks

Steve


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## steveonmars (Apr 18, 2009)

Harold, I've been looking for somewhere to buy the Schwerter's solution. ebay didn't have any. Can you tell me where to find it?

Thanks,

Steve


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## Harold_V (Apr 18, 2009)

steveonmars said:


> Harold, I've been looking for somewhere to buy the Schwerter's solution. ebay didn't have any. Can you tell me where to find it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve


It's nothing more than potassium dichromate dissolved in reagent nitric acid and distilled water. Could be tech grade would suffice. I never tried it. I would recommend against using tap water. 

I recall that I used about 20 grains (15.432 grains = 1 gram) of potassium dichromate dissolved in 3/4 ounce of nitric, and 1/4 ounce of distilled water. That's enough solution to do a huge number of tests. Place your solution in a bottle with a glass dabber, with a ground glass stopper. Plastics do not hold up well with this substance. You can buy those nice little bottles at jewelry supply houses, or from chemical supply houses. 

All this stuff does is dissolve traces of silver, which react with a blood red color. The solution, as prepared, is a deep bright orange color, and translucent. The reaction will be opaque, so once you've seen the reaction, it will be obvious to you when you have silver present. 

If you test materials that are either copper based or nickel based, you will see a greenish color develop instead of red. If you test stainless or platinum group metals, you see no reaction at all. 

Hope this helps.

Harold


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## Palladium (Apr 18, 2009)

Starting on page 88 of hoke's book it explains how to test for all metals. I read it last night and it was most interesting.

:wink: :wink: :wink:


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## patnor1011 (Apr 19, 2009)

here is the link again:
http://rapidshare.com/files/204807747/Refining_Precious_Metal_Wastes_C_1__1_.M_Hoke.pdf


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## steveonmars (Apr 20, 2009)

patnor,
Thanks. I already have it and it's great. Everyone needs to download this if they don't have the book.

Harold,
I did find it (I think) on ebay. It's sold as silver testing acid and looks like it's a pinkish to redish color. Does that sound right? It's also sold in the same little .5 oz plastic bottles the gold test acids are sold in. Would it be OK to leave it in the plastic or should I tranfer it to glass? I hate using glass if I can avoid it just because of the potential for accidents. Also, a .5 oz would last me forever so it would be easier to just pay someone on ebay rather than try to make it myself.

Thanks guys,

Steve


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## Harold_V (Apr 21, 2009)

If they're using plastic, it likely is a grade that will resist nitric. As for the color, think of mercurochrome. If it resembles that, that's the right color. Unless the price is outlandish, it's worth a try. If you were near I'd give you the potassium dichromate. I have a pound or more, which I intend to use in the passivation of 300 series stainless. 

Harold


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## steveonmars (Apr 21, 2009)

Harold,

Thanks, I see the potassium dichromate is selling for $10 a pound on ebay (+ $7 shipping) and I'd never use anywhere near that much so I'll try the testing solution. I looked up potassium dichromate on wiki and it's a red color so the color of the testing solution looks right. They just don't call it Schwerter's solution and use the generic silver testing acid name for people who don't know what it's real anme is.

Palladium,

I noticed your link for the Gold Refining Forum Handbook VOL 2 (Final) here. I dodn't know it was finally done. I just started reading it and it looks great so far. Thanks for the link!

Steve


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## Anonymous (May 1, 2009)

austexdude said:


> I want to set up an area where copper, alum, silver, gold, platinum, pallidium, and any other valuable metal can be seperated. I want to save this up for a number of years (until just before the dollar completly tanks out) and then cash it all in.



This is a bad plan. You want to save up and then trade something of intrinsic value for worthless paper? You might want to rethink that.

Peace


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## qst42know (May 1, 2009)

If the silver test acid you are looking at is the same as being offered with the gold test acids its not Schwerter's solution. It is for testing "Sterling silver" it will not indicate if an item contains silver. 

The color is brownish pink and a drop on Sterling or better leaves a pure white spot, if its not sterling the color of the drop turns green, blue, or gray.

The front of the label reads "Silver Testing Solution". I would guess it is only stabilized AR as the label says it contains nitric and HCL. I bought some with the karat streak test solutions from a local jewelers supply house.


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## steveonmars (May 1, 2009)

qst42know said:


> If the silver test acid you are looking at is the same as being offered with the gold test acids its not Schwerter's solution.



Thanks for the heads up. Where do I find the real Schwerter's solution then?

Steve


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## Harold_V (May 2, 2009)

qst42know said:


> If the silver test acid you are looking at is the same as being offered with the gold test acids its not Schwerter's solution. It is for testing "Sterling silver" it will not indicate if an item contains silver.


That may not be true. The gold test kits with which I was familiar did include potassium dichromate (which makes Schwerter's solution) for testing base metals along with silver. There were three dropping bottles, each of which contained specific test solutions. If the color of the solution resembles mercurochrome, and is made with an orange salt (potassium dichromate), nitric acid and distilled water, it is, indeed, Schwerter's. 

The presence of silver will be indicated by the solution turning color, with pure silver yielding a blood red reaction. As the silver content subsides, the reaction will be a less vivid red color, leaning towards brown. You are not concerned with the color on the surface of the material after the test. 

When all else fails, if you must test for silver and you don't have Schwerter's, a drop of nitric acid will turn the surface of silver a cream color, and the solution will remain colorless. The resulting solution will precipitate silver chloride if salt of HCl is introduced. If the silver is alloyed, given a little time, the color of the drop of nitric will shift towards a green color, getting bolder until the acid has been consumed. 

Harold


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## Oz (May 2, 2009)

Back in the day some 30 years ago at the markets I used to haunt buying and selling they did test with dilute nitric checking the surface of the item as to texture and color both before and after the acid was washed off. Having said that, Schwerter's solution is the way to go.

Just because they did not know better does not mean you need to follow in thier footsteps.


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## Harold_V (May 2, 2009)

Oz said:


> Back in the day some 30 years ago at the markets I used to haunt buying and selling they did test with dilute nitric checking the surface of the item as to texture and color both before and after the acid was washed off. Having said that, Schwerter's solution is the way to go.
> 
> Just because they did not know better does not mean you need to follow in thier footsteps.


Nitric can serve to make tests to a fairly reliable degree, although I would not recommend one make purchases on the strength of the test results. That applies to gold, of course. Silver can be tested reliably with Schwerters, assuming you have enough experience with the reactions. It's a good idea to test various alloys to become familiar with the color reactions, which turn more towards brown as the silver content diminishes. Some of the Scandinavian countries have silver standards that are much lower than sterling. I processed flatware that was marked 720, or 72% silver. 

Fact is, ten karat and lower will react to nitric, leaving the surface a darkened brown color. That's the results of dissolving traces of alloy, leaving behind the partially divided gold. 14 K and above will remain unchanged aside from being well cleaned. I already described the effects nitric has on silver, so, yes, nitric alone can be very telling, especially when you've made countless tests and are able to interpret the results. 

The nice thing about Schwerter's is it tells no lies. You need not interpret anything----if you see red, you know you have silver. The only remaining test would be to file a notch in the item and test for base metal (silver plating instead of solid silver). Schwerters will serve for both tests. That's the reason it is included with gold testing kits. You can test for base metals in gold filled and plated items. 

I agree-----that others fail to use good and accepted procedures is no reason for others to fail to do so. 

Harold


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## Oz (May 2, 2009)

Harold,

They were not all that experienced nor educated. Those teen years were some of the fondest times of my life, I would go to a huge market and buy from one vendor and sell to another. One time I made gas money and food for me and my gal and a movie after on only one transaction 2 booths apart. The funny part was after I had an agreement as to the price of the item I was selling, the buyer informed me that it was contingent on an acid test. He needed his friend to do it for him as he did not have a test kit. His friend was the man I bought it from after having him test it in front of me before I put my cash down. 

I only wish I could find a market like that still around knowing what I do today. There would be little reason to refine, just trade.


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## qst42know (May 2, 2009)

This is what I have. Bought with the gold "K" test acids. The silver acid is the only acid with color it's not red at all but somewhat purple. On sterling it leaves a white spot. On plate over nickel silver the solution turns blue/green, plate on brass it lifts the plate right off. 

Its possible Schwerters won't stay in these cheap LDPE plastic bottles?

If you are looking to detect the presence of silver this is not the solution.


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## Harold_V (May 2, 2009)

I agree----that is not Schwerters-----but it shows definite signs of being nitric acid, which is evidenced by the color remaining after the test, the light cream color I mentioned. 

I have no idea why the solution is discolored--although it may be intentional. Also, take note that nitric acid turns dark with exposure to light. 

Harold


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