# Solid Sterling Silver 3950 grams



## kadriver (Oct 31, 2011)

Here is our latest haul. It is all solid sterling silver dishes and candle holders with all the weighted material removed.

This will take nearly 5 liters of nitric acid to digest, if my calculations are correct.

Plus there might be some other metals that can be recovered.

Thanks for looking - kadriver


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## Rodthrower18 (Nov 1, 2011)

One word...JEALOUS!!! Congrats kadriver, I hope I can duplicate even a fraction of your success in a year or so. Odd question, does the ka in your name have anything to do with a ka24de?


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## Geo (Nov 1, 2011)

lets see here, 3950/31.1 = 127 X 30 = 3810 nitric cost : 5 gallons = 18.92 liters 220/18.92 = 11.62 per liter 11.62 X 5 = 58.1 3810 - 58.1 = 3751.9 cost of scrap : X? anyway you slice it, thats a good weeks payday.


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 1, 2011)

Geo,

He said 5 liters, not gallons. 

Actually, I calculate 5.86 liters, assuming 91% silver and 67% nitric.


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## kadriver (Nov 1, 2011)

Rodthrower18:

I was a corporate pilot for several years after I got out of the Navy. I was not a pilot in the Navy. While in the Navy, I operated the steam power plants onboard Navy Destroyers - 1200psi. 

As a pilot, I also flew a King Air turbine driven twin turboprop airplane at a local drop zone (skydiving). I adopted the name from that (King Air Driver).

geo, here is how I calculate the income:

First of all, I have never performed these calculations before now - although I did throw some figures together before buying the silver - input from the forum would be welcomed by me.

here goes

3950g sterling X .9 = 3555g pure silver (only 90% to allow for shortage).

3555g divided by 31.1 = 114 troy ounces pure silver.

114ozt X $40 = $4560 income.

I was getting from $40 to $42.60 per ozt with spot silver at $30

$4560 income - $58 for the acid = $4502.00

I paid $3500 for the sterling

So, $4502 income minus $3500 cost = $1002 profit - if silver does not tank while I am busy refining it. I may have left off some costs here due to inexperience - input from the forum would be welcomed.

This is why I want to get two silver cells running at once. It takes about 3 or 4 days to get 25 troy ounces from one cell. And that is if there are no problems (like the contamination I experienced last week).

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11842

At that rate, it would take about (114 troy ounces divided by 4 days = 28 days) 28 days to refine this batch of silver.

I figure I can get roughly the same amount of product in about half the time - 14 days - by constructing another cell.

For me, it is all about cash flow. I need to get this silver converted to cash, the sooner the better. This way I can buy more silver to refine, but not if it is sitting in my shop as anode bars waiting to be placed into the silver cell.

If silver tanks (goes down) significantly, then I might end up taking a bath. But I am used to this sort of treatment in life. And this would be small potatos.

In 2003 I took the equity in my paid-for house and invested in realestate. Millions had been made by some in realestate - why not me?

Three years later the bottom fell out - the worst downturn since records had been kept. I made a fortune, then lost it all and then some. But what a ride!

Any suggestions from the forum would be welcomed.

Thanks - kadriver


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## metatp (Nov 1, 2011)

Kadriver,

I am conservative with profit. For me I would not assume a take home of $40/ozt. If you get it, that will be gravy to pay for any of the inexperience losses or other unexpected downtime losses. Ebay has about 12% in fees. That means that you need $45/ozt to make the $40/ozt. Also, wait for that one that wants to rob you on ebay by saying he received something different from the silver you listed. For me, I would use spot price. I think that is more realistic in the long run. If I am wrong, you just make a bigger profit. Of course, this advise is coming from someone you hasn't sold any silver or gold.

Regards,
Tom


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## Geo (Nov 1, 2011)

the process is the same if your doing an ounce or a ton.the only thing that would change is the amount of energy needed.would it be possible to build a cell that would run a five pound anode?if you had a cell like the one Harold uses it would be a matter of working out how much current at how many amps.


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## Harold_V (Nov 2, 2011)

kadriver said:


> This is why I want to get two silver cells running at once. It takes about 3 or 4 days to get 25 troy ounces from one cell. And that is if there are no problems (like the contamination I experienced last week).
> 
> At that rate, it would take about (114 troy ounces divided by 4 days = 28 days) 28 days to refine this batch of silver.


A little error in your math here. If you can get 25 ounces in four days, you would then divide the 114 ounces by 25, which would be 4.56 X 4= 18.24 days. 



> Any suggestions from the forum would be welcomed.


Your idea of adding another cell is likely the right direction to go. You might consider making it somewhat larger, so you can actually increase production by running that cell alone, then when you have a small amount, you can select the smaller cell. Together you'd have even greater production. 

Might pay you to consider my comments in another post, the one where you use a steam table pot for a cell. All you'd have to do is make a basket and filters, so it's a fast and easy way to go. 

Harold


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## goldenchild (Nov 2, 2011)

Sounds like you might have to upgrade to a tote sized cell. As far as selling. Remember you can sell your silver as you go. Produce your first 25 ozt and sell while still processing. Don't have to sell it all at once right


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## SilverNitrate (Nov 4, 2011)

I just wonder where you can sell the refined product for appx 25% over spot... and if so are there always available buyers?


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## kadriver (Nov 4, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> A little error in your math here. If you can get 25 ounces in four days, you would then divide the 114 ounces by 25, which would be 4.56 X 4= 18.24 days.



Your right, I must have been tired when I did that calculation - I'm usually pretty good at math - I stand corrected.



Harold_V said:


> Might pay you to consider my comments in another post, the one where you use a steam table pot for a cell. All you'd have to do is make a basket and filters, so it's a fast and easy way to go.



I think I remeber reading about that in another post - I will read the post again and ask questions. I like the idea of having a large cell and a small cell and choosing one, the other, or both depending on the amount of silver I have to refine.

I run my silver cell in a spare bathroom at my house where I live. I keep it there so I can watch it and not have to run over to my shop to knock the crystals down as they grow. 



SilverNitrate said:


> I just wonder where you can sell the refined product for appx 25% over spot... and if so are there always available buyers?



I sell my refined silver bars on Ebay under the user name "bafelous". I have sold many bars there and have built up a bank of positive feedback from satisfied buyers. I routinely get from 10% to 12% over spot price.

At first some of the bars sold below spot. But now, after building a little trust, I can't make them fast enough. They have really caught on - but they don't go as high as the big name bars like Englehard or Pan American.

The big name silver bars fetch 15% or more over spot - just check the prices on Ebay and you can see for yourself. Search in the "completed listings only" on Ebay to see what the item actually sold for. If you look at current listings that are still being bid on, you won't get an accurate value as that price could change.



goldenchild said:


> Remember you can sell your silver as you go. Produce your first 25 ozt and sell while still processing. Don't have to sell it all at once right



Yes, I do sell as I go. I don't save the bars until I have a large lot. As soon as I make the bars I sell them immediately in a one day auction on Ebay. In most cases the silver metal is turned into cash the day after it is listed.

I am a small outfit and cash flow is important. I wish I could keep some of the silver that I make.

I may start saving some of the left-overs. I usually have a few grams or an ounce left over from the batches I make. This left over silver could be set aside for "retirement". I normally throw it in with the next batch or use it to make fresh electrolyte.



metatp said:


> Ebay has about 12% in fees. That means that you need $45/ozt to make the $40/ozt



This is true and I will have to take this into account when doing the calculations - thank you for pointing it out.

kadriver


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## TXWolfie (Nov 4, 2011)

kadriver said:


> Harold_V said:
> 
> 
> > A little error in your math here. If you can get 25 ounces in four days, you would then divide the 114 ounces by 25, which would be 4.56 X 4= 18.24 days.



Your right, I must have been tired when I did that calculation - I'm usually pretty good at math - I stand corrected.

We will let you slide on your math, since you make the bars so shiny.


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## SilverNitrate (Nov 4, 2011)

kadriver said:


> I sell my refined silver bars on Ebay under the user name "bafelous". I have sold many bars there and have built up a bank of positive feedback from satisfied buyers. I routinely get from 10% to 12% over spot price.
> 
> At first some of the bars sold below spot. But now, after building a little trust, I can't make them fast enough. They have really caught on - but they don't go as high as the big name bars like Englehard or Pan American.
> 
> ...


You do have to keep in mind that on average eBay is collecting 10% on the sell of the items. So if they do bid or buy now and pay Paypal (which you must accept) expect a bill totaling 10% of what you sold at the end of the month. 
I on the otherhand try to strive for a minimum 10x spot for silver but the form is quite small and quantity is limited.


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## Harold_V (Nov 5, 2011)

SilverNitrate said:


> So if they do bid or buy now and pay Paypal (which you must accept)


Wrong! (Speaking from experiences, as recently as last week)
One has no obligation to accept paypal as the only method of payment, _*in spite of ebay's insistence that it be used*_. They've gone far out of their way to make you believe it's true, but it's not. 

Harold


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## kadriver (Nov 5, 2011)

Harold is right. A buyer wanted to send a money order and I said yes, as long as it did not violate any of Ebay's policies.

I said this to them because I believed that Ebay had put out the word that Paypal was the only form of payment authorized when making a transaction on their site.

I automatically (and incorrectly) assumed that other forms of payment were forbidden.

But the money order came and I shipped the item. We left feedback and all was well.

Something in me still believes that only Paypal is authorized. It is amazing how easily we can be deceived by strong marketing.

kadriver


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## samuel-a (Nov 5, 2011)

kadriver said:


> It is amazing how easily we can be deceived by strong marketing.



eBay owns Paypal since 2002, it's only natural they will push their own services.
As far as i ever knew, money orders, checks and wire transfer are allowed on eBay... maybe i need to be updated?


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## metatp (Nov 5, 2011)

Watch it, because I think their protection is based on using Patpal now. Though it really is only a buyer protection not much of a seller protection.


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## gold4mike (Nov 11, 2011)

I believe metatp is correct. eBay has eliminated checks/money orders as a choice to accept payment when you list your item. I doubt that the buyer/seller protection will apply if you have chosen to use a different payment method, since the policy is a function of PayPal, not of eBay.

I do continue to accept checks and money orders but let the buyer know that I will wait 10 business days after I deposit their check to make sure it has cleared my bank before I ship the item. 

You can simply mark the item as "Payment Received" so the automatic (if you have it set that way) non-paying bidder alert doesn't punish your buyer.


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