# SMB TROUBLES



## Chipr62 (Nov 28, 2009)

I have been able to obtain the AuCl using HCL and Cl dissolving foils from computer boards. ( I sit and peel the foil from the boards. But have refocused to fingers.) Now I mix SMB with water but seldom get any gold from falling out like Steve does in his videos. 

So my question is - How Many grams of SMB do I dissolve in 100 ml of water? 

I also thought the fingers were just gold and didn't know until recent that the gold is over copper. So call me chemically ignorant but how do I get the gold from the copper that I have already melted?


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## butcher (Nov 28, 2009)

Chipr62, since you have already melted, study some here on the forum, for a while, you will see you need to eliminate the base metals (copper, nickel solder), 
one way is nitric acid, then redisolve your gold, reprecipitate as before.
if you have alot of oxidizer or chlorine you will have trouble getting enough SMB to over come it, before it can precipitate gold, if no nitric is involve, you can boil this off first, and use a saturated SMB solution small additions, and a stannous chloride test to tell if you have gotten all the gold from solution.
I can't remmeber exact amount's but Oz SMB/Oz Au seems to come to mind, others may correct me here,
you will be suprised by reading through this forum what you will learn, and how much gold you will get out of your scrap that would have otherwise been lost,a little study can go along way's, you will find other sources, better ways than you are using now, it can open a whole new world for you, I am not going to cheat you out of that by giving you detailed information of how to dissolve in nitric or another method.
wish you the best of luck getting your gold, ask more question's if you get stumped after reading a while we all will be glad to help.

since you visited lazer steves web site,check it out again make notes and try to follow his processes they work well. 
also read Hokes book (download avail on forum), this book a must.


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## Harold_V (Nov 28, 2009)

Chipr62 said:


> So call me chemically ignorant but how do I get the gold from the copper that I have already melted?


It is very important that you understand the difference between melting and dissolving. Which one do you mean? They are not one and the same, and would require totally different approaches to solve your dilemma. 

If you are dissolving base metals along with values, you're making a mistake that will be troublesome no end. 

Harold


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## glorycloud (Nov 29, 2009)

Chipr62,

I know that this can be confusing at first but try not to get too frustrated.
I am wondering if you may have missed the AP (Acid Peroxide) step and went
right on to the dissolving of the gold foils step. :shock: 

That would not be a good thing as you do want to first use the AP to dissolve
the copper holding the gold on the fingers. Then there are more steps involved like
filtering and washing before you move on to the dissolving of the gold foils.
Anyway, check out lazersteve's videos and I would recommend that you buy
his CD's on the topic, study them and have them for future reference.

You can do this if you do it with some patience. Study and by all means read about doing
this safely!!! 

Good luck amigo! 8)


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## lala14 (Jan 5, 2010)

glorycloud said:


> Chipr62,
> 
> I know that this can be confusing at first but try not to get too frustrated.
> I am wondering if you may have missed the AP (Acid Peroxide) step and went
> ...


 the AuCl using HCL and Cl dissolving foils from computer boards
hey guy have a question i have always done AR this time i did AUCI WICH ITS CHEPER FOR ME WELL . after i did hcl an peroxid i had god results an saw alot of gold foils after clening them as steve say i puld my foils an put to the side to dry the next day i disided to check i had just under a gram . well i disolved them in hcl an clorox beutiful golden yello well after filtering averithing 3 time i had extra waste i know it was garbeg put it to the side well know i add distill water something hapen from yellow i turn green nice green you can see tru well i add SMB NOTHING HAPPEN I DONT KNOW WERE I WENT WRONG LEFT IT ALONE UNTIL TODAY I CHEK AN IT WAS YELLOW AGAIN WIRD I SAID SO I DISIDED TO ADD SMB AGAIN WISH NO REACTION AN NO MURKI WATER OR DUST WERE IS MY GOLD . what am i doing wrong this time with this aucl your help plz


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## butcher (Jan 5, 2010)

from what I can gather from reading your post, it sounds like some copper in solution (green color).

chlorine (bleach) is a strong oxidizer, it is what oxidizes the gold so that it can make a chloride solution with the hydrochloric acid (HCl acid also called muratic acid), this forms an yellow acidic solution of gold chloride salts dissolved in solution, if you used alot of chlorine (oxidizer) or there is still active chlorine in solution, then your sulfite (sodium metabisulfite) will have a hard time trying to precipitate the gold, because the free chlorine left in solution will just re-oxidize the gold and disolve it back into solution again.

bleach is a water solution of sodium hypochlorite, NaClO, it is very unstable when heated, heat can decompose hypochlorite, driving off oxygen and chlorine, sunlight and time can also decompose it,
heating this bleach solution can also form salt NaCl (table salt) and sodium chlorate as salts or disolved in solution, water will disolve these salts,

the gold will be a brown powder when it precipitates (fall out of solution).

stannous chloride test will let you know if you have gold in solution.

I had some difficulty with your question and hope this helps.


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## lala14 (Jan 5, 2010)

butcher said:


> from what I can gather from reading your post, it sounds like some copper in solution (green color).
> 
> chlorine (bleach) is a strong oxidizer, it is what oxidizes the gold so that it can make a chloride solution with the hydrochloric acid (HCl acid also called muratic acid), this forms an yellow acidic solution of gold chloride salts dissolved in solution, if you used alot of chlorine (oxidizer) or there is still active chlorine in solution, then your sulfite (sodium metabisulfite) will have a hard time trying to precipitate the gold, because the free chlorine left in solution will just re-oxidize the gold and disolve it back into solution again.
> 
> ...


THANKS FOR YOUR RESPOND 
I UNDERSTAND YES I TEST FOR GOLD THIR IS SO TO GET IT RIGHT YOUR TELLING ME THAT I NEED TO HEAT IT UP TO DRIVE OF TO CLORING OONE MORE THING IM SORRY THAT I COULDNT RIGHT PERFECT INGLISH IM A MEXICAN IN LEARNING YOUR NATIVE LANGUGE HAHAHA


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 5, 2010)

lala14 said:
 

> THANKS FOR YOUR RESPOND
> I UNDERSTAND YES I TEST FOR GOLD THIR IS SO TO GET IT RIGHT YOUR TELLING ME THAT I NEED TO HEAT IT UP TO DRIVE OF TO CLORING OONE MORE THING IM SORRY THAT I COULDNT RIGHT PERFECT INGLISH IM A MEXICAN IN LEARNING YOUR NATIVE LANGUGE HAHAHA


Please do not type in capitol letters, it means you are yelling.


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## butcher (Jan 5, 2010)

well I am american and I am also learning english.  
no need to worry I can read your post, but just want to make sure I understand the question.
yes heat it to drive off chlorine, if you have salts add water.


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## lala14 (Jan 5, 2010)

butcher said:


> well I am american and I am also learning english.
> no need to worry I can read your post, but just want to make sure I understand the question.
> yes heat it to drive off chlorine, if you have salts add water.


sorry about he caps nope not yelling im calm person but thanks you butcher i will do that since i always use one part nictric acid to 3part hcl an use urea to distroy the nictric reaction an then smb wish work for me for the past 3yrs then faund this site to help me more so i am a newbe to aucl an witsh is cheper but thank you again to all for your help an the question that i might have :lol:


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## Chipr62 (Jan 5, 2010)

Crud!!!! :roll: I understand now AP first then the HCL and Cl after. But my question remains, how many grams of SMB do I mix per 100ml of water?

Respectfully,

Chipr


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## lala14 (Jan 5, 2010)

Chipr62 said:


> Crud!!!! :roll: I understand now AP first then the HCL and Cl after. But my question remains, how many grams of SMB do I mix per 100ml of water?
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Chipr


chipr i use 2 full tsp in a cup of water it works for me know 100ml i will use 2 1/2 to 3 tsp diluted in water :lol:


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 5, 2010)

Chipr62 said:


> Crud!!!! :roll: I understand now AP first then the HCL and Cl after. But my question remains, how many grams of SMB do I mix per 100ml of water?
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Chipr



1 oz. SMB to 8 oz. of hot water.


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## Anonymous (Mar 11, 2010)

Note: before you add SMB to HCL/CL, let the HCL/CL sit for a good 12-24 hours so the chlorine can vapor and your smb add doesn't fight against chlorine to precip your gold. 

good luck


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## Anonymous (Jun 2, 2010)

I am working black sand ore and have the same problem. When I dilute the auric solution it turns pale green. This is copper in the solution? How do I remedy this? The undiluted auric is a very nice, heavy amber color. I found smb at a wine making supply store for $10 for 5lbs. Should I do a prewash to my ore first? Any responce welcome.


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## lazersteve (Jun 2, 2010)

prospector bill said:


> I am working black sand ore and have the same problem. When I dilute the auric solution it turns pale green. This is copper in the solution? How do I remedy this? The undiluted auric is a very nice, heavy amber color. I found smb at a wine making supply store for $10 for 5lbs. Should I do a prewash to my ore first? Any responce welcome.



Could be iron in the ore.

Have you done a stannous chloride test on the solution before and after dilution?

Steve


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## Anonymous (Jun 3, 2010)

Yes I have, a very dark purple color. I now see one has precipitated and is now clear with brown powder on bottom. Too much bleach maybe? I know what your going to ask next, about a cap full in 100ml.


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## Anonymous (Jun 4, 2010)

Sure enough, I heated my #2 batch and got a chlorine smell. I need to make sure there's no more in my solution before I try to precipitate. Batch #1 (that precipitated) I didn't know what was going on so I let it set over night. It was cold that night and I'm supposing the chlorine dissipated enough for that to happen. Yes I'm sure there's iron in the black sand ore as pirite or mica. The HCL/CL didn't affect it, that I could tell, or another material that is almost as heavy as gold with a silver/gray color. I don't have any nitric acid yet so that will have to wait. At first I thought it might be lead but the HCL/CL would have taken it in solution right?


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## lazersteve (Jun 4, 2010)

prospector bill said:


> Sure enough, I heated my #2 batch and got a chlorine smell. I need to make sure there's no more in my solution before I try to precipitate. Batch #1 (that precipitated) I didn't know what was going on so I let it set over night. It was cold that night and I'm supposing the chlorine dissipated enough for that to happen. Yes I'm sure there's iron in the black sand ore as pirite or mica. The HCL/CL didn't affect it, that I could tell, or another material that is almost as heavy as gold with a silver/gray color. I don't have any nitric acid yet so that will have to wait. At first I thought it might be lead but the HCL/CL would have taken it in solution right?




Lead chloride is mostly insoluble in cold solutions. So lead would remain in the solids.

If you are getting a good purple test and SMB doesn't cause a brown precipitate, then it's very likely too much chlorine in solution is to blame. Heating the solution should drive off the chlorine. Cold weather will only make the chlorine more soluble in the solution and is not desirable when trying to precipitate.

Iron is readily attacked by chlorine in muriatic acid. It will go into solution forming an orange-yellow colored solution. At a certain level the iron will force any precious metals out of the solution as solids.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Steve


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## manorman (Jun 4, 2010)

I have a sample of ore I put into HCL Clorox, I get a very dark gold color when I test with stannous chloride it goes clear with a light black precipitation my guess is iron, does any one know for sure?
Mike


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## lazersteve (Jun 4, 2010)

manorman said:


> I have a sample of ore I put into HCL Clorox, I get a very dark gold color when I test with stannous chloride it goes clear with a light black precipitation my guess is iron, does any one know for sure?
> Mike



Sounds like iron to me. Potassium Ferrocyanide will tell for sure.

Testing for Iron

Steve


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## manorman (Jun 5, 2010)

Thanks, Steve very good info.
mike


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