# poor mans nitric



## Geo (Nov 7, 2011)

i cant find the post on the one pot method for nitric acid.if i remember right you start with hcl acid and heat till boiling and then add sodium nitrate dry and wait till the fizzing stops then remove from the heat and let it cool.decant to a plastic bottle and put it in the freezer untill it freezes then decant the acid to a clean container.should be like 35% nitric.


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## jimmydolittle (Nov 7, 2011)

I did a Google search for what it's worth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yE7v4wkuZU This is more closely to what you said: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/6247-diy-nitric-acid/


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## philddreamer (Nov 7, 2011)

Geo, check this information that Butcher shared:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=10863&p=105627&hilit=how+to+make+home+nitric#p105633

Phil


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## eeTHr (Nov 7, 2011)

Geo---

You use sulfuric acid.

If you use new battery acid, but don't evaporate the water out, and add dry potassium nitrate to it, I believe the water in the sulfuric about equals the water that would be added in the full "long way" formula.

I did it once, and it seemed to work pretty well. It's been awhile, though, so I don't remember the exact steps. I estimated the water compensation from the "long way" formula here on the forum.


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## Geo (Nov 7, 2011)

ok,sulfuric acid.got that,i also have around thirty pounds of sodium nitrate.if i can make this work for now it would be great.i have potassium nitrate i bought from Ebay (two 10 pound bags) for distilling nitric acid but i had to take my rig down to do some remodeling.its a monstroustinous contraption :shock: that i will take some pics of when i set it back up but right now i need a couple of cups of nitric and i dont think the neighbors would have any that i can borrow. :lol:


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## Emmjae (Nov 7, 2011)

Is this the one your looking for? 
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=315&hilit=concentrate+nitric+acid&start=20#p2572
I used this receipe for a long and and it always worked for me.

Mike


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## Geo (Nov 7, 2011)

yes.thats the one i was looking for.thank you for the link, Emmjae.


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## Geo (Nov 8, 2011)

i have left the solution in the freezer all day and decided to check the product so i took a 1 gram button of silver and added 10 ml or so and instantly got fluffy white precipitate.i still have salt in the solution.should i wait longer or just use this for AR and wait to set my still back up?


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## qst42know (Nov 9, 2011)

I have had no luck with poormans nitric of a quality that I can use on silver. I suspect chloride contamination of the nitrate source. 

I have not tried distilling as yet.


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## Geo (Nov 9, 2011)

silver was the reason i needed it so fast.tomorrow i will go with the pickle jug to get enough clean nitric to do this one batch.i have sodium nitrate,hcl acid,copper,pickle jug with a lid,chemical resistant poly tubing,H2O2,salt,ice and a heat source, i believe that if i apply the right amount of thought processes to this i can make a relatively clean nitric acid without setting up my still. i have one OZT of gold plated silver contacts i want to melt and refine, let me find my camera and ill snap a picture.


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## qst42know (Nov 9, 2011)

Assay grade nitrates from a reliable company specializing in quality products for fire assaying still show chlorides in their nitrates in the MSDS.

I would be interested in how things turn out.

[edited for clarity]


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## butcher (Nov 9, 2011)

Edit: I had this pasted in my word progam to print out, for my note book and added it here by mistake but it is so good I will leave it here, Harold says (testing):

You have a solution that is not well defined. It may or may not contain platinum group metals, but the bold gold reaction masks anything that may be present. 

In such a case, I'd place a drop of the unknown solution in a spot plate cavity, and then add a crystal of ferrous sulfate. That would precipitate the gold, leaving the balance of the values in solution. You could then split the drop and test with stannous chloride and DMG, to determine the presence of palladium and/or platinum. The test strips are nice----but they won't replace stannous chloride in all cases. Harold

Here is what I intended to post:

Sulfuric acid and sodium (or potassium) nitrate to make nitric acid, also form a sodium (potassium) sulfate salt, even freezing out these salts, I believe the salt is still contaminating the nitric for use on silver,

Silver sulfate is not very soluble at all.

If just a little chloride in nitric acid it can be eliminated using silver nitrate (forming insoluble silver chloride), which can be filtered or decanted out.

Distilling is best approach if using homade nitric for silver, it would leave behind the sulfate salts, and you can check for, or eliminate any chloride with silver nitrate solution.


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## Geo (Nov 9, 2011)

if my understanding about how this works is correct.add nitrate and copper to the jug.have poly tubing attatched to a hole in the lid and run the poly in your recieving vessel where you have melted the end and melted vent holes to let the NOx fumes to bubble out.place the recieving vessel in a salt water ice bath and add H2O2 per the required amount.since its a 1 gallon jug ill use 700 ml hcl acid to 900 grams of nitrate and 8 standard ounces of copper.ill be using a 1400 ml beeker to recieve and after i add the tubing ill add glass marbles to difuse the NOx gas and slow it down to produce a stronger acid, then ill add 600 ml of H2O2 to the recieving beeker.place nitrate and copper into the jug,add the hcl and screw on the lid.to speed things up i will add a little heat but very little as the AR is created and dissolves the copper heat will be produced by the reaction and i dont want a runaway reaction with my reagents getting into my poly tubing.


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## butcher (Nov 10, 2011)

Sulfuric acid and sodium (or potassium) nitrate to make nitric acid, also form a sodium (potassium) sulfate salt, even freezing out these salts, I believe the salt is still contaminating the nitric for use on silver,

Silver sulfate is not very soluble at all.

If just a little chloride in nitric acid it can be eliminated using silver nitrate (forming insoluble silver chloride), which can be filtered or decanted out.

Distilling is best approach if using homade nitric for silver, it would leave behind the sulfate salts, and you can check for, or eliminate any chloride with silver nitrate solution. Butcher


http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6199&hilit=killing+two+birds+one+rock

Kill two birds one rock.

This process works for gold plated copper, to make nitric acid at same time you get the gold and make copper sulfate.

Geo you are dealing with most likely silver so they would not be a good candidate in the boiling flask here (unless you would want to deal with silver sulfate), but you could use this process to kill a few more birds with that rock with some thought on process adjustments


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## Harold_V (Nov 10, 2011)

Geo said:


> i have one OZT of gold plated silver contacts i want to melt and refine,


I question your need to melt first. Given the low percentage of gold that is present, all you'll do is complicate the process of separating the gold, which will become VERY finely divided, from the silver solution. They should process perfectly well by simply dissolving the silver in heated dilute nitric. Am I missing something?

Harold


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## Geo (Nov 10, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > i have one OZT of gold plated silver contacts i want to melt and refine,
> ...


 i was going to follow an experiment posted by lazersteve.i understand there's no need to melt the material before hand but that's what he did in the video.it was just this one ounce i was wanting to try, i have a few more ounces of the same material and possibly two or more pounds of just silver contacts Ive been saving.i just thought it was an interesting video and something i might enjoy repeating.now im not sure, without the proper nitric acid all my silver will have to wait untill i get my shop built.


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