# 12 ppm Gold



## geubrina

Hi everybody,

I want to report, my last hunting result:

Copper ore with 12 ppm Gold. Is it possible to take out the gold?


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## Platdigger

12 parts per million is a little less than 12 grams per ton.

They mine gold ore at even less gold than this......but only on a large scale.
With cyanide heap leaching being the norm.
Randy


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## mike.fortin

says ppb not ppm for gold. mike.fortin


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## Platdigger

Yes, but doesn't it say 12,000 ppb?


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## geubrina

Yes, 1 ppm is equal to 1000 ppb.

What is the economical ppm for small scale gold hunter like me?


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## Harold_V

All depends on how you intend to recover the values. There's no one-size-fits all in this scenario. 

If you processed the ore for copper, you'd gather the gold as a by-product. 

It may be possible to extract the gold with cyanide----but if that doesn't work, I'm of the opinion you have no alternative but to process with a furnace, recovering the copper. The entire project is likely beyond the ability of the hobby refiner.

I'm open to correction. 

Harold


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## SapunovDmitry

Well, if his hobby is smelting it is still possible, but what can he pull out of it? 12 grams per ton in even 30-50 kg of copper furnace is less then 600 mg of gold (cause there will be losses in the process). If you want your homemade nugget it is more likely to get it through chem process.


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## geubrina

Many thanks Harold and Dmitriv. 

Yes, I have done hunting for almost 2 years now. There is high content of gold ore, but the quantity is very small.

The ore, I found is sulphide type, and the mineral around is very complex, but there is big quantity for sulphide type of ore. I mean the ore body for sulphide is usually bigger compare than oxide type of ore.

So, as per you opinion, what is the economical ppm (gram per ton)?


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## SapunovDmitry

I am not sure, but i think it strongly depends on your size.
If i had to calculate it, i would sit down and think how much would i spend on two main stages of the process.

1.First smelting and pulling out "dirty" copper out of the ore (with all gold, silver and other base metals).

2.Electrolysis of your copper .

2.1 Storing, shipping and selling your copper.
2.2 Making pure PMs through various processes.

Of course you know these stages better than i do, but i wrote it to show that everything depends on your size and the amount of production you make. 
Some books (at least my old russian) state that if the copper plant is big enough it can live without selling copper and only sell PMs and this alone in some cases can recover production costs.


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## Harold_V

Yep---what Dmitry said. 

In Utah, there is what is commonly known as the world's largest open pit copper mine (Kennecott Copper). It has been in operation for well over 100 years, and has gone from being a mountain to a huge hole in the ground. 

They published their recoveries on a regular basis in mining journals. It is common knowledge that the amount of gold that they recover will pay for 10 months of their operation. They also produce a large amount of silver, with small amounts of platinum group metals, along with many other elements. 

To process an ore of that nature requires a huge amount of equipment and a large investment. It is very unlike the high grade ore I processed years ago, where you can build a small ball mill and agitation tank and effectively recover the values. I truly believe it's beyond your capability, if for no other reason, financially. 

I'll be watching, with interest, to see how it goes. I hope I'm wrong!

Harold


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## geubrina

Yes, I think both you are right.

By the way, Harold, how high is the content of the ore you found in the past? I am eager to know, to set up my own standard.

This week (probably next week), I will go again and see what other ore is possible to work with.

I have been thinking, if I can take out the gold and the copper, maybe I still can cover the cost and get some profit.


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## Harold_V

geubrina said:


> how high is the content of the ore you found in the past?


The ore that I processed was about 325 ounces/ton. Very unusual, and only a small amount----four five gallon buckets full. It was a tremendous learning experience, and yielded equipment that I used time and again in refining. 



> I have been thinking, if I can take out the gold and the copper, maybe I still can cover the cost and get some profit.


Luck! 

Please do keep us posted. 

Harold


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## geubrina

Thanks for your support, Harold!

I will go to that area again. Also, I would like to post one more picture.

Both Minerals are found in adjacent veins (only one feet away). We call it yellow vein and white vein. Both are Sulphide for sure.


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## Harold_V

Heh! 

I wish I knew more about ores and geology in general. You have posted pictures of some very interesting specimens, including the one that is an obvious copper ore, well oxidized, in a different forum. 

I'm having a hard time understanding why these ores aren't being pursued by those that have means. To my untrained eyes and mind, they look very promising. 

Harold


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## geubrina

Yes, Harold, there are many specimens of minerals in our area. But, for a big scale mining company, they want to find a big phorpyryr ore body.

Here, the minerals are many kinds (complex) but no big quantity (as a company standard, the quantity is small). 

Also, you know, the regulation here is not so good. Everybody can interpretate as they want...  

But, in Papua Island, there is huge ore body and huge US company (Freeport) exploiting the copper and gold...


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## jsargent

geubrina said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I want to report, my last hunting result:
> 
> Copper ore with 12 ppm Gold. Is it possible to take out the gold?



12 ppm is roughly 11 grams per ton or about 1/3 of an ounce. This puts it well within the range of small scale economic extraction. It's possible to build a simple vat leach system that will hold 3 tons of very finely crushed ore and extract it with any of the common methods discussed here. It's all a matter of scale. It'll cost some $$$ to set things up but once it's up and running, you're golden, as they say. This is assuming the ore is not loaded with arsenic or other nasties. I know a guy in California who discovered the landscaping sand from his local garden center had enough gold in it to extract so now he has a few tons delivered each weekend like clockwork. :wink: 
Heck if you can pull out an ounce of gold over a weekend, not to mention a considerable amount of copper, that would support most any habit, even prospecting.


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## mike.fortin

what dose he do with all his sand after he get out his gold? mike.


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## qst42know

I think I would find another landscaper that wanted to pick up free sand. :wink:


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## mike.fortin

haha. i dont now any body who pickups sand. just delevers it. mike.


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## Pawnbroker Bob

jsargent... Whould you care to share where in Cali your friend lives?  

I am curious if my hunch is correct. 

PB


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## geubrina

jsargent said:


> geubrina said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi everybody,
> 
> I want to report, my last hunting result:
> 
> Copper ore with 12 ppm Gold. Is it possible to take out the gold?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12 ppm is roughly 11 grams per ton or about 1/3 of an ounce. This puts it well within the range of small scale economic extraction. It's possible to build a simple vat leach system that will hold 3 tons of very finely crushed ore and extract it with any of the common methods discussed here. It's all a matter of scale. It'll cost some $$$ to set things up but once it's up and running, you're golden, as they say. This is assuming the ore is not loaded with arsenic or other nasties. I know a guy in California who discovered the landscaping sand from his local garden center had enough gold in it to extract so now he has a few tons delivered each weekend like clockwork. :wink:
> Heck if you can pull out an ounce of gold over a weekend, not to mention a considerable amount of copper, that would support most any habit, even prospecting.
Click to expand...


Yeah, you are right. This will be a nice work for an ounce a week work. But, frankly speaking, I am not so good in the processing and it seems, it need at least USD 10,000 investment to do so, I guessed.

When I have the cash and knowledge, surely I will start small processing.

Any ideas how to build this mill, is welcome!


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## jsargent

> Yeah, you are right. This will be a nice work for an ounce a week work. But, frankly speaking, I am not so good in the processing and it seems, it need at least USD 10,000 investment to do so, I guessed.
> 
> When I have the cash and knowledge, surely I will start small processing.
> 
> Any ideas how to build this mill, is welcome!



Without exception, any vat leach system you build will require very fine grinding of the ore. Something in the range of less than 300 mesh. The finer the better. You can do this on a small scale using a cement mixer loaded with fist sized quartzite pebbles or other hard rock or steel balls or sledgehammer heads or something similar. Add some water and let it run untill the slurry is ground fine enough to where you can't feel any grit with your fingers. Then experiment with the slurry to your heart's content. Try something as simple as muriatic acid and chlorox bleach. There's plenty of leach recipes available right here on this forum. Work it out on the 5 gallon bucket scale first before scaling it up. Investment money has a way of being attracted to anyone with the grit and determination to actually produce a bit of shiny yellow metal out of a pile of rocks and dirt, so I wouldn't worry too much about the $$$. It will come if you got the gold.


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## Harold_V

jsargent said:


> You can do this on a small scale using a cement mixer loaded with fist sized quartzite pebbles or other hard rock or steel balls or sledgehammer heads or something similar. Add some water and let it run untill the slurry is ground fine enough to where you can't feel any grit with your fingers.



I wonder------have you experienced this type of operation, or are you just speculating?

There's a reason I ask. A ball mill that does not run at the proper speed will be as destructive on itself as it is on the charge. I fully expect that would be the case with a cement mixer. 

Harold


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## butcher

Harold, I have powdered alot of rock in an older cement mixer, it does need repair every once in a while,but works well, but not suitable for larger operation, works for me at least till I build a ball mill.
for a mining operation stamp mills are easy to build(I have built a miniture stamp mill, a one stamp, for handfuls of material), a ball mill can be built easily, any of these are very loud.


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## jsargent

Harold_V said:


> jsargent said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can do this on a small scale using a cement mixer loaded with fist sized quartzite pebbles or other hard rock or steel balls or sledgehammer heads or something similar. Add some water and let it run untill the slurry is ground fine enough to where you can't feel any grit with your fingers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder------have you experienced this type of operation, or are you just speculating?
> 
> There's a reason I ask. A ball mill that does not run at the proper speed will be as destructive on itself as it is on the charge. I fully expect that would be the case with a cement mixer.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...

 Nay... verily I have done it and experienced the joys of disturbing the neighbors with a cement mixer running 24/7. A regular old cement mixer from Sears is the poor man's ball mill and for experimental leach operations where you just need enough powdered ore to leach in a bucket or barrel it'll work fine. My problem is finding a mill that will produce 300 mesh or finer grind at a rate of a couple tons or more a day. I think I have settled on a rotary collider mill. Ran some of my ore thru a demo unit last week and it did a great job.


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## Harold_V

Thanks for both replies. 

I don't doubt the cement mixer works------nor did I say it wouldn't. What I did say is that it will be as destructive on the mixer as it is on the feed. 

The action of a mixer isn't exactly proper, although it does come close. In order for a ball mill to work efficiently, the charge should be taken to the apex of the drum, and dropped. Cement mixers, minus the paddles, don't do that, and if the paddles are used, they interfere with the proper action when the balls drop due to being diametrically opposed to one another. If you don't know, ball mills do their work by crushing, not abrading. 

If a substantial charge of balls is used, and the mill is operated at the proper speed, a thin shell doesn't provide the necessary resilience to prevent damage to the drum, and the sliding action of one operated below optimum speed abrades the drum as fast as it abrades the material being crushed. It's a losing proposition, although I agree, it certainly would work to some degree. 

As for running it 24/7-------if it had the proper action, unless you lived remotely, there is no doubt in my mind, your neighbors would have shut you down. The noise level of a properly operating ball mill is difficult to tolerate. A cement mixer doesn't come close to that kind of noise level. Speaking from considerable experience, if it matters. 

Harold


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## Palladium

For some interesting information Google Intec gold process.
Or Intec copper process. BrCl2 is kind of interesting. :wink:


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## geubrina

Dear Everybody,

2 Weeks ago, a friend coming with a handheld Spectrometer and the machine shows: 0.03% to 0.09% of Iridium. He said, the percentage might not be accurate but it sure contain Iridium.
12 ppm of Gold and 0.09% of Iridium!

Well, teach me now how to take the benefit out of this ore!

Cooperation is also welcome!


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## jsargent

geubrina said:


> Dear Everybody,
> 
> 2 Weeks ago, a friend coming with a handheld Spectrometer and the machine shows: 0.03% to 0.09% of Iridium. He said, the percentage might not be accurate but it sure contain Iridium.
> 12 ppm of Gold and 0.09% of Iridium!
> 
> Well, teach me now how to take the benefit out of this ore!
> 
> Cooperation is also welcome!



WOW! That's roughly between 10 ounces and 30 ounces per ton of iridium.
I would love to experiment on a few pounds of the ore if you want to ship me some. I may be able to find design an economical protocol for extracting the iridium. What about the other platinum group elements?


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## geubrina

Well, I am thinking of a way to process this ore....

If only, I can process this ore, ... hmmm, if only, ....


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## Richard36

The piece on the right is a different material. I am not sure as to what it is, it may well have a high manganese or antimony content. This is just a guess at what it is. To visually identify this mineral, It would have to be a photograph of a sample with the mineral showing its crystal shape and structure. Short of that, you would have to send me a piece so that I could do some chemical tests on it to identify what mineral it is, and what metals, ( elements ) it contains. Sincerely; Rick.


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## kjavanb123

Dear Friends,

Just joined this great and very informative site. We have tailing dump from a copper leaching factory that has some gold and silver in it. Also according to fire assay result, 12-18 grams of Au per tons, and 50 grams of Ag per tons. I will try to attach the gold and silver extracted by someone who did it for me on 4kg samples, and 67 kg of sample from tailing dump. There are 5 million tons of tailing dump laying there for last 40 yrs and no one has ever thought of doing anything with them. Plz tell me what would be the process to extract the gold and silver from the copper leaching tailing dump? Small scale would be a good way to start. This person who did this is slick and unreliable. Plz advise.

This is the first Gold and Silver recovered from tailing dump. (4kg sample )


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## Anonymous

If you have deep pockets, heap leaching. you grade off some new ground with a slight incline, lay out a big tarp. Then spend a couple of years trucking the tailings onto the tarp, bulldozers level off each layer. 

When this is completed, set out a sprinkler network using cyanide, which gradually seeps through the heap pile onto the trap then into a catch pond then pumped through activated charcoal where the gold is collected then processed.

You will also more than likely have to leave a huge environment deposit with energy and mines department to cover the proposed cost of reclamation of your work site.

The actual process an easy one, good luck with paper work and financing.


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## kjavanb123

Dear Sir,

As I mentioned in my post, I am looking for a small-scale operation to process 20tons of the tailing for gold and silver. This person who refine the samples for me is not sharing the info hence me seeking the process here.

Thanks if you advise the least expensive yet productive methods of extraction. Should I dissolve the tailing dump with Aqua Regia? Then using rectifier extract gold and silver? 

Thanks


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## Anonymous

I hope this is not an April fools joke, precessing 20 tons of tailings with Aqua Regia - is not your cheapest method. Nor in my opinion even a viable option.

Maybe someone else on the forum has a better option for you. If the heap pile were mine and I had all my permits in place - cyanide would be my choice.

This is a very big undertaking, leaching a large tailings pile. You have to apply for permits, which may take years to have approved.

Precessing the tailings pile once relocated will take years for the cyanide to extract the gold.

Reclamation of your site, probably the most economical part of your project, most companies just walk away from the environment deposit leaving the clean up to Energy and Mines.

I do not approve of companies walking on the deposit, perhaps making my veiws public will inform others of their practices.

Usually the company proposing a heap leach will be a new start up, with sharp lawyers to advise them in the matters of bankruptcy.


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## Irons

If these tailings had been treated with Cyanide, they would be alkaline and probable contain Cyanide residues. Any acid would be neutralized and HCN would be released.

I would take a sample of the material and do a titration to see how much acid would be lost.

I have a feeling it would be uneconomical. There are tailing recovery operations ongoing in South Africa, but without tax breaks, they probably wouldn't pay.


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## kjavanb123

Irons said:


> If these tailings had been terated with Cyanide, they would be alkaline and probable contain Cyanide residues. Any acid would be neutralized and HCN would be released.
> 
> I would take a sample of the material and do a titration to see how much acid would be lost.
> 
> I have a feeling it would be uneconomical. There are tailing recovery operations ongoing in South Africa, but without tax breaks, they probably wouldn't pay.



There is no taxing on the tailing here in Pakistan. This process of extraction is being done using smelting + acid + rectifier on 60kg sample. I wanna know the detail of that process.

I have a furnace that can smelt 1tons of tailing every 2 hrs. It has a large qunatity of silica when is smelted. which can be thrown away, the heavy metal portion is left for chemical process. what is the best chemical process. dont worry about permits as that is being taken care of. Just need to know if I dissolve the tailing in AR, what is the rest of the process to get the gold and silver.

thanks


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## blueduck

instead of a cement mixer would an old truck tire be something that would work for sample ball milling? ok add some plywood and a couple of mandrels and make it similar in nature to the one profiled in the pdf here...

www.acc.umu.se/~widmark/bigtumbler.pdf

I suspect that everything is relevant to the pieces of iron used for "balls" that would ride up the tire with the material being processed..... 

And one that might not work to well is found at http://www.gizmology.net/mixer.htm which used a five gallon bucket to crush cat litter for sand casting...... 

and what about using that spray in truck bed liner inside the drum of a cement mixer???? that stuff wears like iron in a pickup bed, and if it needed to be sprayed in thicker so what? would it not work to save the wear on the metal? cost effective?

Does anyone know of a small jaw crusher like the old Denver units that aint been made in 40 years? or where one might be sitting that aint been scrapped out in the past couple years..... yeah i know lots of questions, suggestions and comments...... all to once.... should keep visiting regualr like and not sporadic.....

www.mcnalls.com I decided to try my hand at peddling some small scale and recreational equipment to at least the local market this year and my wife put the catalog up on a website...... most everything in the catalog i end up rering cause we do not have storage or a storefront...... but at least ive sold a couple of products in the past 2 weeks that i did order in.... and the season aint even started yet!

William
Idaho


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## AuMINIMayhem

gustavus said:


> I hope this is not an April fools joke, precessing 20 tons of tailings with Aqua Regia - is not your cheapest method. Nor in my opinion even a viable option..


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 

OMG!.. I was thinking the same thing.. seriously, that's a LOT of material to go through for such a small yield.. practically a mining operation.. well, essentially I guess it is..

doing this on a "small scale"?.. no way.. this could only be done with a very large processing facility and more than likely a serious Cyanide leaching operation.. am I wrong?..


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## semi-lucid

geubrina

Is there any arsenic in the ore samples your looking at? 

Any garlic smell if you tap on it with a hammer?


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## jsargent

kjavanb123 said:


> There is no taxing on the tailing here in Pakistan. This process of extraction is being done using smelting + acid + rectifier on 60kg sample. I wanna know the detail of that process.
> 
> I have a furnace that can smelt 1tons of tailing every 2 hrs. It has a large qunatity of silica when is smelted. which can be thrown away, the heavy metal portion is left for chemical process. what is the best chemical process. dont worry about permits as that is being taken care of. Just need to know if I dissolve the tailing in AR, what is the rest of the process to get the gold and silver.
> 
> thanks



It sounds like you're putting the cart before the horse. You say you're melting the ore FIRST, then acid leaching the metallic fraction? Granted, you have a large furnace but the fuel costs eat into your profit margin I would think. If it were me I would study the Resin in Pulp process, set up a row of Pachucka tanks, get a ball or rod mill and crush the pile to <250 mesh and use cyanide and an appropriate ion exchange resin bead to capture the values. An acidic halogen leach would probably work too, but as Irons points out, any acidification would release cyanide gas from residual cyanide in the tailings. This could ruin your day. Be careful and good luck.


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## jsargent

kjavanb123 said:


> Dear Friends,
> 
> Just joined this great and very informative site. We have tailing dump from a copper leaching factory that has some gold and silver in it. Also according to fire assay result, 12-18 grams of Au per tons, and 50 grams of Ag per tons. I will try to attach the gold and silver extracted by someone who did it for me on 4kg samples, and 67 kg of sample from tailing dump. There are 5 million tons of tailing dump laying there for last 40 yrs and no one has ever thought of doing anything with them. Plz tell me what would be the process to extract the gold and silver from the copper leaching tailing dump? Small scale would be a good way to start. This person who did this is slick and unreliable. Plz advise.
> 
> This is the first Gold and Silver recovered from tailing dump. (4kg sample )


Good Lord... I went back and read your original post and see that you have 5 million tons of tailings at roughly a half ounce per ton. :shock: This is worth doing right. The material has already been leached once for copper correct? I assume this was done using sulfuric acid, so that simplifies things somewhat. To extract the gold values with economy you may be able to set up a small pilot heap leach operation and use cyanide, once you get rid of any acidic residues. This is a very long term operation so may not be best for you. A much faster method would be the Pachucka tank + halogen leach method. Expect to spend some money setting things up but once you're up and running, it's a very simple operation and highly efficent as it is a continuous operation, though you can also do it by batch method. You can find my email on my website if you want to contact me. I'd be happy lend a hand as time permits.


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## geubrina

semi-lucid said:


> geubrina
> 
> Is there any arsenic in the ore samples your looking at?
> 
> Any garlic smell if you tap on it with a hammer?



I did not check the arsenic. And it did not smell garlic, when I tapped with a hammer.


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## kjavanb123

jsargent said:


> kjavanb123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Friends,
> 
> Just joined this great and very informative site. We have tailing dump from a copper leaching factory that has some gold and silver in it. Also according to fire assay result, 12-18 grams of Au per tons, and 50 grams of Ag per tons. I will try to attach the gold and silver extracted by someone who did it for me on 4kg samples, and 67 kg of sample from tailing dump. There are 5 million tons of tailing dump laying there for last 40 yrs and no one has ever thought of doing anything with them. Plz tell me what would be the process to extract the gold and silver from the copper leaching tailing dump? Small scale would be a good way to start. This person who did this is slick and unreliable. Plz advise.
> 
> This is the first Gold and Silver recovered from tailing dump. (4kg sample )
> 
> 
> 
> Good Lord... I went back and read your original post and see that you have 5 million tons of tailings at roughly a half ounce per ton. :shock: This is worth doing right. The material has already been leached once for copper correct? I assume this was done using sulfuric acid, so that simplifies things somewhat. To extract the gold values with economy you may be able to set up a small pilot heap leach operation and use cyanide, once you get rid of any acidic residues. This is a very long term operation so may not be best for you. A much faster method would be the Pachucka tank + halogen leach method. Expect to spend some money setting things up but once you're up and running, it's a very simple operation and highly efficent as it is a continuous operation, though you can also do it by batch method. You can find my email on my website if you want to contact me. I'd be happy lend a hand as time permits.
Click to expand...



Dear Sir,

Thanks for your respond. I will email you with more detailed information on this matter.


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## kjavanb123

Hi all,

in regards gold/silver extraction from tailing waste, the person who got that gold in picture has told me about his latest methods of extraction. It uses electric furnace to just evaporate the soil containing silica and the rest of unwanted stuff, and work on the remaining which is mostly precious metals. Hmm he is pretty cool, I just gave him 30kg of tailing sample. This is huge business considering his numbers and total quantity.

I will keep you posted with the updates.

Thanks
Kev


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