# Gasoline storage



## 4metals (Apr 5, 2014)

OK not refining related but this is the "Bar and Grill" 

I recently discovered a source of ethanol free 91 octane gas about an hours drive from my house. Since I have 13 gas powered pieces of equipment, not counting cars, I was tired of spending a hundred dollars every season to get one or two of them running again because of the ethanol we now have in most gas. 

I heard about this station selling the ethanol free and drove there (about 70 miles) and filled up four 5 gallon gas cans to have some on hand. The difference it makes in my equipment is very noticeable and I expect the machines are better off for it. Needless to say I am hooked. Also needless to say the local repair shop likely isn't as happy about this as I am. A benefit of this "new" gas is it can be stored long term, just like gas in the old days, (wait a minute, this is gas from the old days!). 

I discovered a website which locates all of the stations selling ethanol free gas http://www.pure-gas.org
If you click on map, a locator comes up showing all of the stations in your area. I happen to be in a small pocket of northeastern Pennsylvania where there is none available close. 

Since it is a trip every time I need more gas and since pouring gas from a 5 gallon can with those new government conceived safety caps always results in gas spilled (now how is that safe!), I am looking into a larger size, transportable storage tank with dispensing capability so I don't have to lift and pour. I have seen a few on the market, and they have optional pumps (hand crank) but they are pricey and I thought I could tap into the diversity of our membership and come up with either some ideas or some recommendations. 

The ethanol free gas is about $.20 per gallon more than the gas with ethanol, but the gasoline apparently costs more than the alcohol so it makes sense. Word is the gas has more BTU per gallon and it makes up in performance for the price. Besides if I factor in the cost of repairs to my equipment vs. the cost per gallon, I likely could add in excess to $1.50 a gallon to the price and still come out even, so it is very much worth the price. 

By the way, I do not store any gasoline in my house, it is always stored in an outbuilding and it always will be. (Safety first!)


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## dannlee (Apr 5, 2014)

Check your State Fire Codes, ours in Minnesota forbid filling a portable fuel container larger than six gallons at a public station.

Ignore any rumors or boasting about this or that brand gasoline and put stabilizer/preservative in every batch.

Up in the Northern Midwest we are dependent on summer/winter blended gas. What atomizes in August is like kerosene at -20°F, and putting winter blend gas in something when its 85-95°F is a sure way to get vapor lock from fuel flash evaporating in the fuel lines. I've asked our 100% petroleum station when they change over and they care not, are oblivious to the refinery/terminal shipping schedule. Try to keep only enough fuel on hand to stay seasonal, if you have leftovers that carry through to next year the stabilizers will have kept it from turning into turpentine.

And remember there are 21 or 28 approved gasoline blends that cover the entire lower 48 States, no longer can you count on iso-octane & naptha as major ingredients - you may be getting xylene, toluene and benzene cocktail as long as the BTU content remains above a certain point. A sniff of the fuel odor can usually flag those that smell like paint remover. I'm not saying its a bad thing, just they're included for the refineries convenience not ours. The best gas available up here is Marina gas but they want a dollar-per-gallon premium for it. Back East in the Mid-Atlantic the best gas has a slight twinge of diesel odor to it and no paint-remover smell at all.

Five or seven years ago when fuel prices spiked up I paid for 5-gallon cans by filling up with cheap gas - then the price of plastics rose along with gas prices, so just that first 5-gallon fill bought the cans once gas rose $1.25 or $1.50 a gallon. Keep an eye on yard, estate, garage sales for cheap containers!


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## 4metals (Apr 5, 2014)

Pennsylvania sets the quantity at 30 gallons for filling at a gas station. 

But thank you for that, I would have never dreamt of that possible restriction.

Ethanol free gas is pure gas just like they sold before they came up with E10 gasoline. It can be stored without additives and does not degrade. Unlike gasoline with alcohol additives.


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## Ian_B (Apr 5, 2014)

Check your local scrap yards I have been able to find a number of interesting items there including 600 gallon military fuel tanks with hooks for lifting and set ups underneath for a fork lift. exactly the same as the one pictured below






if you google "Battery Powered Fuel Transfer Pump" you can find a number of pumps reasonably priced


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## bmgold2 (Apr 5, 2014)

Thanks 4metals for posting that link. Nothing close to me here in Pennsylvania either though. I know that the new ethanol fuel can really mess up air-cooled engines. Repair shops are probably getting a lot of business repairing all the lawn mowers, chain saws, motor cycles, and all the other air-cooled engines. I have a small motorcycle (scooter) that only has around 2000 miles on it and no longer runs because of this new fuel.

When it (ethanol fuel) first came out around here, I stopped at the hardware store to find out if, since it now contains alcohol, we don't need to use dry gas any more. No such luck. In fact, now they have special, high priced additives that are supposed to help with the alcohols tendency to absorb water. We try to use high octane gas in all the equipment here but don't know if that is a long term solution. I think whoever decided to start adding the alcohol to the fuel either didn't consider the damage it does to small engines or just don't care. Maybe eventually the small engines will be made to be able to run on the ethanol fuel but, for now, repair or replace those engines pretty regularly seems to be normal. I'm not sure but I think part of the problem is the rubber hoses and O-rings soften and dissolve in ethanol and then plug up the carburetor and fuel filter.

In the end, it will probably mean that small, air-cooled engines will cost more or be replaced with something else (?electric?).


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## Lou (Apr 5, 2014)

I actually like E85--it's 105 octane. Sure, you get 10-15% less fuel economy, but it's 25-30% cheaper, burns cooler and more boost can be made on high performance engines.

You should be able to order a 55 gallon drum or two of gasoline and have it delivered. Never done it with regular pump gas (just VP products and methanol), but I know there are distributors for gasoline that deliver by the drum. The 30 gallon restriction on fill is coincidentally less than the DOT restriction on how much gasoline one could put into a drum in the back of their pickup truck.

FYI, benzene, toluene, xylene (BTX) ups the aromaticity content and the octane rating but is less often used nowadays (ethanol doing the work instead). Higher octane means slower burning/less knocking so more power is developed. I'd recommend adding those to fuel to spice up the pump 87 to 100 + octane.

Messing around with all this will require adjustment to the fuel/air ratio to get the stoichiometry right as it will make the engine run significantly more rich.

Cheapest solution might just be finding/making the wetted components out of FKM which is compatible with any fuel.


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## joubjonn (Apr 6, 2014)

Thanks for reminding me I need siphon 30 gallons out of my boat that has been in storage for a year 

That's gonna suck. I did put stable in it but I'm sure it's not enough protection. It's got a 2008 GM350 engine in it.


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## GotTheBug (Apr 6, 2014)

joubjonn said:


> Thanks for reminding me I need siphon 30 gallons out of my boat that has been in storage for a year
> 
> That's gonna suck. I did put stable in it but I'm sure it's not enough protection. It's got a 2008 GM350 engine in it.




SeaFoam, the kind in the can, not the ocean, shall be your best friend.


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## 4metals (Apr 6, 2014)

Are you sure you had ethanol gas mix in your tank? Most of the places selling the ethanol free are marinas because it gives so much trouble to boats. The alcohol causes the mixture to absorb water form the air. I read somewhere that an E10 gasoline can absorb 140 times more water than pure gasoline.

When I look up Houston on the pure-gas website there is only one seller of ethanol free gas even close to Houston. Louisiana and East is loaded.


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## joubjonn (Apr 6, 2014)

Pretty sure it's at leased 10%. It's a wake boarding boat so I got all the gas on the trailer. We are moving it to Galveston bay next summer. So I should be able to get marina gas at that point. I have heard of sea foam. How can that help me. I assume that since the gas is a year old I'm screwed.


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## Ian_B (Apr 7, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5faqSGWSlo


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## joubjonn (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks!
Think it's ok to just add that now and then in a month or so to the tank and when I change the oil I should be fine to run that gas? I really don't want to siphon out 30 gallons of gas. I don't know what I would do with 30 gallons of bad gas.


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## GotTheBug (Apr 7, 2014)

I had never seen that Seafoam video, awesome! I have used it to bring several engines back to life that were thought completely gone by previous owners. As for using year old gas, presumably sitting in a marine environment the whole time, I think it's taking a chance. My redneck method would be the smell test. If you're going to run the gas, I would overdose it with seafoam first, like half a can to that 30 gallons. Typically I run seafoam and stabil in all my equipment fuel, and seafoam in vehicles about every six months. Having tried several out there, I've always come back to it.


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