# Incenarating Flat Packs, N/S Bridges, Black Chips...



## philddreamer (Jan 16, 2012)

I joined this great Forum 2 years ago this February, & I learned to process gold & silver scrap jewelry. Then I learned to recover & refine gold using the sulphuric cell. I've also learned to process some e-scrap, mainly fingers & cpu's, but, not enough experience in the other areas of e-scarp. So, I've gotten to the point of having to process this type of material, (black chips), in order to recover safely & efficiantly, any PM's from them. (E-scrap is starting to "come my way" with more frequency & it's time to start experimenting in this other areas & gain some experience.) 
After reading the information, that's been kindly shared by some fellow members, I decided to give it a GO!
So, having at hand 3/4# of flat packs & bridges; 1.4# of ram black chips & 1.8# of an assorment of black chips from HD's, MB, PCB's & others, I've opted to use incenaration in order to get rid of the epoxy & free the metals in them. 
I have a number of B-B-Q"s, so I pick the smallest & less used for incenarating the material, (it won't be used for cooking any more). 
After lighting the charcoal & placed the 3/4# of flat packs & in less than 1 hr. they were done. Now, I used my propane torch to burn the smoke that started to seep thru the sides of the lid, like an afterburner; then I removed the lid, (at this point, the smoke was just about all gone) & finish roasting them with the torch. Then followed the 1.4# of ram chips; & after those, the 1.8# of mixed black chips.
After letting them cool & crushed them & proceeded to boil the 1.4# batch in diluted nitric.
Tomorrow I'll finish rinsing, & proceed to digest in AR.
As soon as I have a yield, I'll post it.

Any comments & advise will be welcome.

Phil


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## recycleordie (Jan 16, 2012)

Good luck with your efforts, and keep safe.


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## kuma (Jan 16, 2012)

Hi Phil!
How are tricks ? I hope your all well!
I just wanted to say nice work chief , I really like the idea of using a lid to catch any smoke and then using a torch as an afterburner , I'll have to incorporate that next time I pyrolyze! 8) 
I look forward to seeing your finished product!
All the best for now and kind regards ,
Chris


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## philddreamer (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks Recycleordie!

Hi Kuma!
I'm going to do some work on the Bar-B's cover, so to introduce air/flame to bring up the heat & ignite the smoke. 

A couple of pic's of the material after 2 diluted nitric boils. Since, its been boil & rinsed in distilled water, waiting for the temp to get a bit above the freeezing point. It's 28F. 
This is from 1.4# of Ram memory black chips.

Thanks!

Phil


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## kuma (Jan 16, 2012)

Hi Phil , hows things? 



philddreamer said:


> I'm going to do some work on the Bar-B's cover, so to introduce air/flame to bring up the heat & ignite the smoke.



Me likey! 8) 
I just wish that I had some way of cleaning up my material just now , I was thinking even the AP process on a small (tiny) scale to clean up the leftover base metals , ah well , patience is a virtue , I suppose ,  :lol: 
Nice work there chief!
All the best and kind regards for now ,
Chris


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## darshevo (Jan 16, 2012)

Crazy to see snow on the west side, its bare and dry here in Spokane, has been most the winter. 

What did you use for a vessel when you did your incineration? Its hard to tell from the pictures what it was originally

-Lance


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## philddreamer (Jan 16, 2012)

Hi Kuma!
Things a pretty chilly out here in Western Washington, expecting more snow, the main dump on wednesday they say. 
Kuma, you might be able to clean some of the ash with water, panning it like Patnor. At least until you can use chemicals.

Lance, I wish you had our snow! :lol: It's hilly out here & a bit of snow or ice makes it miserable to drive around. 
Anyways, I used a porcelain coated pan. I have about half a dozen SS bowls, but I was concerned on getting the fire too hot & having metals stick to it.
It worked fine.
Thank you gentlemen!

Phil


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## kuma (Jan 16, 2012)

Hi again Phil! 



philddreamer said:


> Kuma, you might be able to clean some of the ash with water, panning it like Patnor. At least until you can use chemicals.



For sure chief , I still have my twice crushed and panned material in the wash bucket kept out of the way , and I plan on trying to pan out what more I possibly can at some point soon , even if only for some more practice with the panning as nothing will get thrown .
I really look forward to getting stuck in and leaching the rest of this material and digesting the leftover metalic pieces too , it will take some time yet before I can do any of these things , but for now my collection of materials for processing is starting to look good and it will only get bigger in the meantime , 8) 
Cheers Phil!
All the best and kind regards for now ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## Smack (Jan 16, 2012)

Phil, don't put any holes in your lid, try to keep the oxygen out. If you have a leaf blower or a small fan just point one at the coals if you want more heat, it will get really hot so just watch it and don't leave it unattended when blowing. Then after you crush everything sift it all out through a fine screen and process the bigger stuff separately.


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## philddreamer (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks for the tip Smack!
I'll give the screening a try & process the coarser material separate from the fines. The issues that I've encountered are because of the fines, mainly, settling of the fines.
Also, in the 1st pic you can see the smoke ignited to the left. On my next batch, I'll add more charcoal so there will be heat at that higher point, (where the smoke is escaping from under the cover), plus, I'll use a blower; I'm sure that will ignite all the smoke.

Kuma, just hang in there brother, & continue collecting more material; in essence that's what I've done.

Thanks!

Phil


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## kuma (Jan 16, 2012)

Hi guy's , how are tricks? :mrgreen: 
Thanks for the extra tips on the pyrolyzation stage guy's , I'm deffinatly taking all of this on board!



philddreamer said:


> Kuma, just hang in there brother, & continue collecting more material; in essence that's what I've done.



For sure chief! 
In all honestly it's been a whole lot easier to find free old computers and equipment over here than I initaly thought it would be , I basicaly just get enough to keep me out of trouble as and when I need it , and so far it's working out for me! :mrgreen: 
The chemistry thing will happen as and when it can , so for the time being I have all the time in the world ( ish , :lol: ) to carry on learning what I can about the different processes and the reactions that will occur , and I've got to say so far I'm loving it!
All the very best guy's , and kind regards ,
Chris


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## Smack (Jan 16, 2012)

If you pyrolyze properly, any dust that is left shouldn't cause you any problems. Do your nitric then filter through a automotive paint strainer to hold back any powder and values, filter the resulting solution through your coffee filter or buchner to finish cleaning it up and drop your silver, then A/R the rest and if there is still a bunch of foreign material left you can use the paint strainer again to speed up the filtering through your final filter. But remember to not pour straight acid through the paint stainer as it is paper, the acid needs to be diluted, both nitric and A/R. They shouldn't charge you anything for the strainers either. If you don't want to use the strainers because of the paper you can get a paint strainer from home depot, it's like a mesh bag (white)then just pour through a funnel. I use some bucket top strainers I got from dudadiesel. They go from 75mesh to 600. They are the way to go, so you don't have to dilute and you keep you chemical waste volume to a minimum. Just trying to help. Sry if it's kind of mixed up, or not in perfect order, not everybody has access to all the same stuff.


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## philddreamer (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks Smack, I'm following you. I just sifted the 3/4# from flat packs & now the waffers & coarser material is in nitric. 

The first 1.4# ram chips are in AR, & the reaction is slowing down. I'll add a bit more nitric, if no reaction, then let it settle overnite. Stannous test; decant & vacuum filter.

Thanks again!

Phil


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## philddreamer (Jan 16, 2012)

I won this auction a while ago. I hope is in good working order.
I'll get me a compressor, like the ones on a dredge, & set it up outside...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160713323665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Phil


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## kuma (Jan 16, 2012)

Hi guy's , how are tricks? 



Smack said:


> If you pyrolyze properly, any dust that is left shouldn't cause you any problems. Do your nitric then filter through a automotive paint strainer to hold back any powder and values, filter the resulting solution through your coffee filter or buchner to finish cleaning it up and drop your silver,



I hear you too there chief , thanks!



philddreamer said:


> I won this auction a while ago. I hope is in good working order.
> I'll get me a compressor, like the ones on a dredge, & set it up outside...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/160713323665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
> ...



Wow , want (need) one! :shock:  :lol: 
Well , I'm going to pike it for toinight and head off to my pit! :mrgreen: 
Many thanks guys , 
With kind regards and best wishes for now ,
Chris


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## philddreamer (Jan 16, 2012)

Ram chips processed in AR solution stannous tested; positive for Pd.


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## samuel-a (Jan 17, 2012)

philddreamer said:


> Ram chips processed in AR solution stannous tested; positive for Pd.




Phil

Did the preceding Nitric leach tested positive for Ag/Pd ?

I suspcet it will as i mentioned before.


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## philddreamer (Jan 17, 2012)

Hi Sam!
No, I did not. I should have... yesterday I was so wrapped up crushing ceramic cpu's, checking an AP process, starting the nitric on the flat packs & more, that I forgot to test the nitric solution; I guess I was just to focused on the gold in the AR. So, I was surprised to get, (what seems to me), & positive for Pd in the AR. 
I ran the material in nitric until all reaction stopped. I adde a bit more nitric & increased the heat, but there was no reaction, so I proceeded to rinse & then the AR. I need to slow down.

Another 1.5 hours before sunrise, then I'll head out back to the shed.

Thanks!


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## Claudie (Jan 20, 2012)

How do you refill those air tanks? :|


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## Geo (Jan 20, 2012)

i used to do some diving for mussels we used Gast oilless compressors for our breathing air supply.we also used compressed air cylinders that held 3600 psi, $15 to refill at the dive shop.these were full sized cylinders that we used to refill our scuba tanks with.bought two used cylinders for $100 each.


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## philddreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

Claudie, I'll be checking with one of the diving outfits around here & find out if they will refill them; also, I'm planning on using a T80 compressor, instead of the tank, used when diving for gold. First, I have to find out in what condition it's in.

Hopefully I'll be able to continue with the processes today since the temp is above freezing. It's been miserable the last few days. My vacuum filter runs thru a small scrubber & it kept freezing up. Ice on the ground, in the shed, made it unsafe. 

Now comes the flood watch! :shock: If the snow melts too fast, like it usually those, my basement will flood. Nothing worse than to walk down to my basement in the morning & step into 2" of water! It has happened twice in the 3 years we've been here.

Oh well, life goes on! 8) 

Phil


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## Claudie (Jan 20, 2012)

I have an uncle that lives by the harbor out there. He was trying to tell me they got a foot of snow, from the looks of your picture, he must have been telling the truth. :shock:


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## Harold_V (Jan 21, 2012)

Claudie said:


> I have an uncle that lives by the harbor out there. He was trying to tell me they got a foot of snow, from the looks of your picture, he must have been telling the truth. :shock:


Location, here, is everything. I live south of phildreamer. We received 17" of snow (measured), but we are also high enough that we avoided the freezing rain that followed. The night it began, our temperatures rose, while others dropped. Only Friday did the valleys begin to thaw, while our thaw began three days ago. Our 17" of snow is now down to about 5". 

Freezing rain occurs when warm, moist air goes over cold air (temperature inversion). We've seen three major ice storms since moving here in '96. Each one resulted in the same ending---trees and power lines downed in the lowlands, and no freezing rain at our location. Are we lucky, or what?

Harold


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## kurt (Jan 21, 2012)

Phil

Hope you didn't dispose of that nitric - it will have a fair amount of Ag & some Pd for sure.

Instead of panning (at least to start with) I use a couple of 1 & 2 gallon jars (you can use a bucket but I like using the jars so I can see how its going) put the ash in the jars (or bucket) add plenty of water & just enough dawn soap to brake suface tension (soap added "only" to the first wash) stir it up really good & give it just enough time to settle the heaver stuff (30 - 45 seconds a minute at most)then like panning give it just a bit of the same side to side shaker motion as with panning to really settle the gold wires & then pour off - repete washing & pour off (no more soap) untill you get a relatively clear pour off.

Doing this will make your panning easier & more effective - it gets rid of the ultra fine stuff that clouds up the water & acts like a drag in the panning. (its also a good way to get rid of clay when panning placer material)

Kurt


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## kurt (Jan 21, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> Claudie said:
> 
> 
> > I have an uncle that lives by the harbor out there. He was trying to tell me they got a foot of snow, from the looks of your picture, he must have been telling the truth. :shock:
> ...


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## kurt (Jan 21, 2012)

opps - hit the submit button before writing my post (dam touch pad on my laptop)  

anyway - I have lived in Spokane 2 different times now - I was there durring the ice storm back in the mid 90's

I'm back in Wisconsin now helping to take care of my mom & dad. It sounds like Washington is having a normal Wisconsin winter - While here in Wiconsin we are having a normal Washington winter. :lol: 

Kurt


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## samuel-a (Jan 21, 2012)

kurt said:


> Phil
> 
> Hope you didn't dispose of that nitric - it will have a fair amount of Ag & some Pd for sure.
> 
> ...



Kurt, i'm not saying this out of certainty, but this could be a good way to loose some values in this case.

Anyhow, unless smelting is done, i this going after the Pd and Ag is not worth it. So paning might do the trick.
The panned and leached ahes could potentially be collected and sent to a refinery for toll processing. Though, very large amount is needed.

Harold, i have seen snow less then 10 times in my life... am i lucky? :mrgreen:


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## kurt (Jan 21, 2012)

Hi Sam - my bad - I need to put things in there right order.

If you are going to use the AR leach to recover your gold (& possibly Pt) then after crushing use a magnet to remove magnetic metals - then nitric to remove primarily copper (lots of big pieces of copper) but this also puts Ag & Pd in solution.

Siphon of the Cu/Ag/Pd nitrate (well settled & clean) wash with D-water & let settle good & clear - repete 1 or 2 more times - this will get most (not all but most) of the Cu/Ag/Pd nitrate - clean & well settled (you want "very" little to no acid showing with a litmus test)

cement the Ag & Pd out with copper (I cement only the original nitrate & first 2 washes mixed together (you may need to evaporate some here depending on how much water used in the washes - you want it dilute but not to dilute) the next 1 or 2 washes are getting to dilute to worry about (I add HCL to the more dilute washes to recover the last of the Ag)

This is where I implement the the more vigorous washing (before panning) I was talking about.

This gives you a good clean minimal (or no) base metals & minimal ash for the AR leach.

Smelting is certainly another way to go - but for small batch AR leach I have had very good results using this process. It removes the base metals, removes & recovers the Ag/Pd & minimizes the ash for the AR gold leach.

Kurt


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## kurt (Jan 21, 2012)

Opps - I should add one more step in this process - you don't get a really good crush the first time around because of the base metals (copper & magnetic wires) interfering with the crush.

So after the nitric treatment & before the vigorous washing I do another crush with a metal rolling pin on top of a 1/4 inch piece of tempered glass. Do it wet - the reason I do it on top of a thick piece of tempered glass is it squeegee's off real nice & you don't loose gold being smeared into a metal suface.

Kurt


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## Harold_V (Jan 22, 2012)

samuel-a said:


> Harold, i have seen snow less then 10 times in my life... am i lucky? :mrgreen:


Indeed you are! I hate the damned stuff.

Harold


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## nickvc (Jan 22, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> samuel-a said:
> 
> 
> > Harold, i have seen snow less then 10 times in my life... am i lucky? :mrgreen:
> ...




Totally agree there Harold...lovely on a Christmas card or to look at on the television....vile to live with if like us here in the UK the world comes to a dead stop with an inch of snow! :twisted:


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## Harold_V (Jan 22, 2012)

nickvc said:


> Harold_V said:
> 
> 
> > samuel-a said:
> ...


Interesting comment, Nick. When I lived in Utah, snow was commonplace. It took a huge storm (well over a foot) to shut down the city, but, here, in Washington, I've had my eyes opened. The snow, here, is wet and slippery. I no longer laugh when I see drivers struggling with an inch of snow. I can't drive in it, either, yet I generally had no issues with driving in over six inches in Utah. 

Your snow in the UK must be much like ours here in Washington. 

Harold


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## philddreamer (Jan 22, 2012)

Another big problem here in Washington is the hills in most of our neighborhoods. 
I remember one snow fall, & I "had" to take my oldest daughter to high school, (she "had" to meet with her friends), in my old '73 Dodge van. We went half way up the hill, then "stalled" & down the hill, out of control, doing 2 - 360 degree spins... :shock:
I told my daughter, YOU'RE MISSING SCHOOL TODAY!!! :evil: 

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## philddreamer (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm finishing the process of the 3/4# of flat packs. I decanted & started rinsing the material, which will be followed by AR.

The 1.4# from ram chips I'll be doing a sample test of the brown sediment in HCl/Cl. 
I was only able to precipitate about .5g out of the solution, (which now test positive for Pd!? I get a yellow-green swab.) I think some of the gold cemented because of the solution been saturated with base metals.

Phil


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## Smack (Jan 25, 2012)

.5g of silver?


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## philddreamer (Jan 25, 2012)

Smack, that's .5g of gold from the 1.4# of ram chips, (the second pic with the brown sediment). I believe there should be more, I either didn't dissolve properly or the gold cemented.

I'm filtering the AR from the 3/4# of flat packs & getting ready to precipitate.

Phil


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## Geo (Jan 25, 2012)

every time i use poor mans AR on ceramics, i wind up with gold in the sediment. ive only done four batches of CPU's and two batches of IC's and it was the same each time. so what i do is run the AR once for about a half hour and pull it off. stannous will usually show barren solution or very weak positive.this solution will hold most of the silver and lead.i then do another run.i understand this doubles the waste chemicals but the second run is usually a very strong positive. i have room for the plastic drums to hold spent chemicals so no problems there. im usually cementing in one while adding to the other.


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## philddreamer (Jan 27, 2012)

The result from the 3/4# of flat packs is .7g of gold. There was a positive stannous test for Pd, but that will go to the stock pot.

Phil


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## patnor1011 (Jan 31, 2012)

philddreamer said:


> The result from the 3/4# of flat packs is .7g of gold. There was a positive stannous test for Pd, but that will go to the stock pot.
> 
> Phil



3/4# is it 0.75 lb? 340g?


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## philddreamer (Jan 31, 2012)

Pat, that's correct .75lb or 340g. Sorry!

Phil


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## patnor1011 (Jan 31, 2012)

No problem. It looks that RAM chips yield will be in region of 2g Au from kilogram. Or 1g from lb. That is pretty much the same I got from last batch.


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## philddreamer (Feb 1, 2012)

That's good to know, I won't try to squeeze any more out of my batch! :mrgreen: 

Pat, did your batch test + for Pd?


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## patnor1011 (Feb 1, 2012)

Yes, I do have picture somewhere home, my chips were mixed, from RAM sticks but pretty much all types and ages imaginable.


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