# City Trip for Nitric and Copperas



## rusty (May 25, 2013)

If I make the trip non stop It's 3.5 hours from my home to the outskirts of the city, but who can resist visiting Jacks scrap yard in Neepawa if he had known I was coming for a visit would have brought an extra coffee from Tim Hortens, 

Jack also maintains the garbage contract for the city as well he owns the scrap yard so his day start 6:00 am, anyhow he had a bin in the yard with some goodies from a shutdown from which I obtained a PLC and another enclosure with more goodies for the PLC. It is an older unit but still the same should be fun to learn about and see if I can put it to use in one of my projects.

Leaving Jacks head over to Johns Electric, Angus the owner is a super guy he's looking after my Harley Interceptor, of course I'm joking. Just wished I was younger and owned the bike for my own ride. Angus purchased the bike new and has no time to ride it, so it sits inside the shop.

Johns always has coffee brewing, ahh my first morning coffee, nothing like a fresh coffee full of caffeine to start your day. The day is wearing along so I grab my order a new digital thermostat 0 - 250 f along with a 40 amp magnetic relay. Then to top it off Angus gives me a brand new thermostat and older model never used as a freebie which has a much higher temperature rating then the one purchased. Actually told me I could return the one I had bought right then and there, diplomacy dictates that I would not.

Leaving Johns Electric I notice the rear tire is low, so off the the tire shop - free air. At the stations they have these plug n play air stations. They have fresh coffee brewing so I grab one to go.

The rest of the trip is uneventful with the exception of a couple of computers from a landfill about half ways into the big city, as I enter the outskirts of the city hit a restaurant for digs a double order of the breakfast special. After enjoying the meal went up to the till and handed the girl my debit and she now tells me sorry were cash only our ATM was stolen last night.

I tell her this puts us both in an awkward situation as i do not have any cash, but ask if there is an ATM nearby, she points across the street half a block away a Credit Union. I ask if she trusts me that I'll come back had she not I had it in mind to leave here my credit card. She says of course, then a dude waiting says how about I buy your breakfast.

I say that is a very nice gesture but i would prefer you to pass that forward to someone in need. Somehow during all this the dude slips some cash to the cashier yes without further word my meal included. As the guy is leaving the girl tells ,me my meal has been paid for, I quickly ask the fellow just as he is opening the door to leave his name. Darrell he replies, I thank him.

Turning to the cashier I laugh asking if he tipped her, then quickly say don't say as I suspect our mutual friend has graciously done so. I leave and make my way over to the Credit Union to where I withdraw a $20.00 insert this into a deposit envelope and seal it writing Blondie on the front.

Then I had back over to the restaurant handing here the envelope and leave before she has a chance to open it.

I laughed about Darell managing to put me into morel debt for sometime that morning as I wind my way towards another firm from which I purchase my acids. They had some copperas on hold for me.

The backorder ( nitric ) was in as promised, I had the guy open a bag of copperas and the contents were brown to black, told him I would take a pass. He says it is the best there is its water soluble.

On my return trip stopped in at every garden and greenhouse center who all claimed to be sold out of iron sulphate ( copperas ) I finally drove into my yard 8:30 PM, I heard there maybe some copperas In Brandon, but think I let my fingers to the walking before making that trip.

There's a couple of landfill that I could check along the way, never know what you'll find.

Now that I have the new starter installed in my truck I don't have to kiss the woman to have her truck, it's nice to be free.

I have a few ideas in which to implement my new toy the PLC, it turns out that it can be networked into a PC hard wired or over Ethernet to operate and control multiple functions.


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## Claudie (May 25, 2013)

That sounds like quite a day. The story left me wanting to read more, maybe you should become a writer.


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## element47.5 (May 25, 2013)

Nice story, Rusty!


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## patnor1011 (May 25, 2013)

It is not a story, it is a nice day. Sadly very different from my routine day. Sometimes I feel I am living on deserted island. We may be in a crowd but that human contact is disappearing from our life. I seems to encounter mostly people who do not want to even talk with another people or who look on you thinking what they can get, gain, take, grab... from you.


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## rusty (May 25, 2013)

patnor1011 said:


> It is not a story, it is a nice day. Sadly very different from my routine day. Sometimes I feel I am living on deserted island. We may be in a crowd but that human contact is disappearing from our life. I seems to encounter mostly people who do not want to even talk with another people or who look on you thinking what they can get, gain, take, grab... from you.




The one greenhouse complete with gift shop, high class joint - perfect example Pat. 

Even with my recent hair cut I don't reek of money the sales lady was very short with me. I'm sure had I stayed on premise much longer she would have had me escorted from the store.

My wife wants a few fruit trees and was not permitted access to the nursery, Art Knapps in B.C. you grab one of the many golf carts then drive around the nursery adding your purchases to the cart then pay as your leaving. The only thing missing is a Red carpet.

Phoned a few places in Brandon and came up empty, all they carry is an iron chelate. 

Please refer you to my copperas experiment. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=18445


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## Claudie (May 25, 2013)

Too many times in todays society people are judged by their looks, but ya know the funny thing about that is, the guy in the $5000.00 suit and the $1300.00 shoes is usually a bigger thief than the guy in a tee shirt and work boots. :|


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## Woodworker1997 (May 26, 2013)

Claudie said:


> Too many times in todays society people are judged by their looks, but ya know the funny thing about that is, the guy in the $5000.00 suit and the $1300.00 shoes is usually a bigger thief than the guy in a tee shirt and work boots. :|



How right you are.

I have had many service jobs where I go to peoples homes to fix this or that. The poor and so called middle class people were the most gratefull, quickest to pay people. Most, not all, of my rich customers would agree to a price, then after the work was done. They would complaine and demand a cheaper price!

Pat,
if you ever get the chance. Come to rural America. Farm country. 
You may never want to leave.

Derek


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## skippy (May 26, 2013)

GIll, I think you have a good perspective on living!
As far as copperas you could always make your own. I believe incinerated transformer iron is what has been recommended and it is dissolved in sulfuric acid. 
I don't think you'll have any problems figuring out the PLC. I would like to get one too. I've considered making a little automated setup for opening oxygen sensors. Actually, if you have one kicking around I'd be curious how well a plasma torch cuts the steel shell where the inner bore of the shell is plugged with the non precious bearing ceramic piece. I'm curious how the plasma torch would do on the the circumfrance where I marked the red slash on the picture.
Sorry to hijack your thread with this.


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## MEANIE (May 26, 2013)

All times i have used the plasma you need some free space behind the metal your cutting for it to work well....If not it splaters and messes up the tip..

meanie


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## skippy (May 26, 2013)

Thanks - though not what I was hoping to hear. I wonder if the torch was aimed tangential to the circumfrance if that would help?

The couple batches I've done I've cut open with an abraisive disc, which is pretty quick for me now, but I hate the noise and smell.



MEANIE said:


> All times i have used the plasma you need some free space behind the metal your cutting for it to work well....If not it splaters and messes up the tip..
> 
> meanie


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## MEANIE (May 26, 2013)

Just to the left of your pic theres a open spot under the outside case it will cut it like butter and fast ...on clean metal the plasma cuts clean....but if theres oil ,grease, rust, or dirt of any kind it gets smokey and dirty when cutting ...as far as holding the tourch head at a angle it just dont work as well..at lease for me ...i have a miller that cuts up to 5/8 " thick...oh and on another note if you cut Titanium you need to have on tinted goggles it is real brite when cut..trust me on this .lol

meanie


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## MEANIE (May 26, 2013)

Oh man i messed up i was thinking you was talking about cats.. not o2 sensors.. i think there to small to use a plasma on ..ever try a pipe cutter ?/
A small one used for cutting copper pipe?? 

meanie


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## rusty (May 26, 2013)

skippy said:


> GIll, I think you have a good perspective on living!
> As far as copperas you could always make your own. I believe incinerated transformer iron is what has been recommended and it is dissolved in sulfuric acid.
> I don't think you'll have any problems figuring out the PLC. I would like to get one too. I've considered making a little automated setup for opening oxygen sensors. Actually, if you have one kicking around I'd be curious how well a plasma torch cuts the steel shell where the inner bore of the shell is plugged with the non precious bearing ceramic piece. I'm curious how the plasma torch would do on the the circumfrance where I marked the red slash on the picture.



Using a variable speed motor like what is in the picture with the torch angled tangentially would work perfectly in my opinion. After one gains experience with the plasma torch you could carve a sculpture from a solid block of metal.

Most Chinese plasma machines ship with a cheap P80 torch, the outer protective casing is not very heat resistant nor to other types of abuse. But not everyone is going to cut a pile of farm machinery up for scrap not keeping an eye on where your lines are. Even though the P80 has it faults I would not upgrade, as the torch itself is cheap to replace and you can not beat the price on consumables.

I replace the torch at least once a year, but then I abuse it severely.

Early treadmills all used permanent magnet DC motors, the electronics that control the motor usually fault. You can purchase controllers such as the one shown below to run these motors.

The set up below is a project in the making, once the valve has been removed from a propane tank I can replace it with a pipe stub to chuck the tank then rotate the tank holding the plasma torch in a fixed position. The end results would be a perfectly cut tank without having to take the time to mark out he cut line.

Once the top of the tank has been cut free then inverted a few tack welds to hold it in place it can be once again chucked and rotated slowly for welding around the circumference.

The few O2 sensors i had I had cut them open in the lathe but this cost me more in broken tool bits than what one would recover in precious metals from the sensors. I think your idea is much better.

I'll torch one for you. PM for my mailing address should you decide to mail me one.


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## rusty (May 26, 2013)

MEANIE said:


> Just to the left of your pic theres a open spot under the outside case it will cut it like butter and fast ...on clean metal the plasma cuts clean....but if theres oil ,grease, rust, or dirt of any kind it gets smokey and dirty when cutting ...as far as holding the tourch head at a angle it just dont work as well..at lease for me ...i have a miller that cuts up to 5/8 " thick...oh and on another note if you cut Titanium you need to have on tinted goggles it is real brite when cut..trust me on this .lol
> 
> meanie



Hmm, when it comes to rusty scale as much as .250" thick, many coats of thick paint oil and grease I'll take plasma over oxygen torch any day of the week. I've been cutting scrap most of my 64 years. My only mistake was not buying into plasma sooner.

Starters and generators have four screws holding the field coils in place, I use the plasma to gouge these out.

Your goggle story brought back a memory. once I had 18 electric aluminum trolley bus's to cut up for scrap. I was using a portable welder cranked up on the amps with cheap welding rods soaked in water to sever the aluminum.

With the high amperage then dragging to soaked rod across a sheet of aluminum would make a very jagged cut,having water soaked the rods I could get better mileage from them the cuts were very ugly but I was able to get manageable pieces of aluminum cut free of the bus.

Now that i had a system that worked, hired a guy from the local half way house, showed him how to cut and told him to use the helmet. The next day when I went to pick him up he was suffering from a very bad case of welders flash.

Th Mutt told me he could not see using the helmet, the half way house gave me two guys to replace him.

I had a small RV trailer on site for accommodation, then when I could not find the new guys found that my father who was visiting or rather over seeing his loan had the two half way house guys corked on wine.

I told my father no more wine I had to sober these guys up who were from the half way house one step removed from prison and could go back if they returned to the house drunk.


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## MEANIE (May 26, 2013)

We use a chain saw to cut up aluminum semi trailers. But ya have to have on long sleeve thick shirts. It tosses small slivers of hot aluminum everywhere.

The boys and i use to build dune buggies back in the day. I made my own wide wheels by putting a old vw front spindle and hub in the vice then put the skinny wheel on it , then i mounted the plasma tourch on a stand so i could place it where i needed to make the cut and rotated the wheel as it cut. The next step was to roll a 14in wide sheet the same size as where i made the cut .. then tack it on the wheel half in the vice and the outer half on the other side so i coulld weld it as i turned it and keeping it true with a dial indcator. 
The spindle and hub was used for many things that needed rotated as I cut welded or ground on .If i couldnt bolt it to the hub i just welded what ever it was to be worked on to the hub.

""Hmm, when it comes to rusty scale as much as .250" thick, many coats of thick paint oil and grease I'll take plasma over oxygen torch any day of the week. I've been cutting scrap most of my 64 years. My only mistake was not buying into plasma sooner.""

I was thinking inside a shop you, I hope was out side .. LOL
Yes the plasma are a awesome tool. Never did gouge much with it for the consumables cost so much.. 64 years OMG here i tought of you as in your 30s
i so enjoy readying all your post. For as the builder ,scraper ,DYI and tinker we was made from the same cloth

MEANIE


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## rusty (Sep 9, 2013)

skippy said:


> GIll, I think you have a good perspective on living!
> As far as copperas you could always make your own. I believe incinerated transformer iron is what has been recommended and it is dissolved in sulfuric acid.
> I don't think you'll have any problems figuring out the PLC. I would like to get one too. I've considered making a little automated setup for opening oxygen sensors. Actually, if you have one kicking around I'd be curious how well a plasma torch cuts the steel shell where the inner bore of the shell is plugged with the non precious bearing ceramic piece. I'm curious how the plasma torch would do on the the circumfrance where I marked the red slash on the picture.
> Sorry to hijack your thread with this.



Skippy bonus cutting such thin metal you would have your plasma set at it's lowest amperage which would lengthen the life span of your consumables by a factor of 5 or more. if your planning to purchase a plasma make sure you get one that has pilot arc.

Pilot arc will shoot a plasma stream ( Arc ) from the tip of the torch head just by pulling the trigger, good for cutting expanded metal or that having rusty scale or paint. i paid $800.00 for my 70 amp plasma and use it so much that i gave up my oxygen bottle contract.

You would have laughed your bag off, about a month ago neighbor kid comes into the yard with a deck truck and wants a hole cut into the deck so that he can mount a towing ball, I grab the power cord form the reactor twist the wires together and tape them. While I'm doing this ask the kid if he has used a plasma before - kids being what they are he replies yea plenty of times.

It' raining cats and dogs there's an inch of water laying on the deck my plasma been sitting outside all summer is soaked. I had the kid the torch and face shield - first thing he asks am I going to get a shock from this thing. I tell him to man up and get the job done so that i can get out of the rain, I'm soaked.

Kid pulls the trigger on the gun - no body home its dead. I take the gun and hold the trigger long enough to blow the water out of the torch head - after a minute or so the water is blown free - bingo we have a plasma stream. I give the torch back and he's cutting through all that water making the most imperfect hole I've ever seen. Any how the ball did fit with a bit of hammering.

Last year the kid purchased the old garage in town on a tax sale for $1500.00, it wasn't until later that I noticed the building has three phase power, the building was short lived it burnt to the ground during the summer. This is why he needed the trailer to haul the rubbish away.

Another guy i know bought the old school over in Kellwood the building is 350 ft. by 250 ft. wide on 13 fenced acres.with 3 phase power on a tax sale for $5,000.00.


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