# something interesting on silver electrical contacts



## ilikesilver (Feb 16, 2013)

Coin Silver

CMW® Coin Silver (90% Ag / 10% Cu) and Elkonium®1 (75% Ag / 24.5% Cu / 0.5% Ni)

Coin Silver and Elkonium® 1 alloys are the most widely used materials of this group for electrical contacts. Elkonium® 1 material sold by CMW displays low transfer tendencies and high current switching capability in a number of automotive applications. Coin silver also has been used in a number of relays and switches because it is more economical than fine silver. It has been used in rotary switches and other sliding contact applications because it has good resistance to mechanical wear. Both coin silver and Elkonium® 1 materials are used in high contact force applications where fine silver has failed by mechanical wear or deformation due to its lower hardness.


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## ilikesilver (Feb 19, 2013)

this is a good example of what ive been working on, large breakers. sure they are not pure silver but most likely like a low grade coin silver. will have to be refined and then purified for quality, but so far i have 8 oz's built up of these little gems. Plus some better pieces that are solid from big plug in units from these industrial cases. ive also got about 15 oz's of coated style with contacts that will have to be broken down also.


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## skippy (Feb 19, 2013)

I can't see any contact on your first pic. Is there one that can't be seen from the glare or is this flatish strip all silver?


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## ilikesilver (Feb 20, 2013)

that hole strip is silver





skippy said:


> I can't see any contact on your first pic. Is there one that can't be seen from the glare or is this flatish strip all silver?


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## qst42know (Feb 20, 2013)

I haven't encountered breakers where the entire arm is silver, at least not of recent manufacture . 

What is the amp rating of these units, and have you filed deeply into them to be sure?


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## Findm-Keepm (Feb 21, 2013)

Altech 2BU20R breakers (shown in your picture) have silver plate in them, over BeCu. Not at all likely to be solid silver. Remember, Silver metal is softer than copper, and to form a spring-like contact, you'll either have to make it thick or introduce another metal, with silver plating.

I think you are showing a spring contact or thermal arm that is merely silver plated.

Cheers,

Brian


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## ilikesilver (Feb 21, 2013)

yes in-deed, these i know are covering brass or copper, but silver is silver and it was all FREE. And i have a lot of it. So refining it will make some nice drops or bars. And now i just purchased a chemical test kit for gold and silver, will have that in a few days. I have been finding in larger units, which i will take a good picture of this weekend and post it, and on my scale the large prongs out of a electrical socket that was in one unit that i had from this hall of stuff that are SOLID silver. Cut one in half to make sure, large and thick. Tonight i was working on two motorola hand radios, boards don't have much in gold content but it is there and silver also. Two parts, one which is the lower antenna mount is solid silver, and another piece right next to it, not sure what it was for was solid also. I was checking out the prongs, they are gold tipped over silver with a few other small pins in the board. Also one small little box on the board has a what looks to be silver or platinum over gold? very strange, i will see if i can take a picture of that also and blow it up. Maybe something you all have seen in the past. Best regards

Happy pickin


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## johnny309 (Feb 22, 2013)

Don't do it....
Why?
Because is more in reselling value ...and not a lot of work and acids.
For my point of view is not black(silver oxide...or "tarnish" and not melted contacts).....which mean that is still in goos shape....
Sell them and buy silver.....and trust me ....you will have a plus to maybe buy some gold.... :idea:


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## kdaddy (Feb 25, 2013)

Been there done that, You are wasting your time with anything other than contacts. What you think is solid silver is not, it's plated.
How do you think you are going to refine silver plated base metal? I have opened every kind of breaker and motor starter known to man and the only solid silver is in the contacts and solder.


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## skippy (Feb 25, 2013)

If it's anything like the silver plate on bus bars, it's really really thin with value only a fraction of the copper weight.


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## ilikesilver (Feb 25, 2013)

Ok so whats wrong with silver plated? everyone here is calling it junk, why? your telling me i cant get the base metal out of the silver, there is no way to do that?tim


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## patnor1011 (Feb 26, 2013)

There is a way but at the end your ounce of recovered silver will cost you probably in region of 3-4 x of spot price. You will end up with silver which will cost you 300-400% over spot.


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## ilikesilver (Feb 26, 2013)

patnor1011 said:


> There is a way but at the end your ounce of recovered silver will cost you probably in region of 3-4 x of spot price. You will end up with silver which will cost you 300-400% over spot.



Thank you Patnor. Thats a lot better explanation than *just dont do it*..

So question, what types of silver should be done, or are there different types like gold 10k up 22K? Is there mixed silver, like the electrical spot contacts, i hear they range around 80 percent silver. should i be saving those instead of the arms. So my understanding of this that PLATED SILVER, really is junk, and not worth messing with do to the price of separating it. Is this correct?

Now I do have solid electrical prongs from a high voltage unit, definately solid, cut one in half no copper core. Is this a mixed silver, probably with some other junk metal, what about those, can those be separated?

Thanks for your help
tim


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## pimpneightez (Feb 26, 2013)

These are what you want. A little bit of work but when you get the hang of it they come off pretty easy with the right tools.


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## pimpneightez (Feb 26, 2013)

Just wondering why you can't just dump silver plated stuff in nitric for a specific amount of time just to remove the silver plate. If you leave some behind oh well. You wouldn't have gotten it anyway. I know there's a reason but just can't remember right now. Can you tell when nitric starts reacting with copper? Silver dissolves pretty quick in nitric amirite?


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## skippy (Feb 26, 2013)

Why not? Because you are in a two steps forward, one step back situation, when the copper starts being exposed, the silver will start cementing out on the metal. You'll end up using a lot of nitric acid, although if you can get it bulk price you may do ok.


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## Captobvious (Feb 26, 2013)

what about reverse electroplating? Seems to me like that would be the easiest way to handle this.... just a thought, possibly wrong


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## pimpneightez (Feb 26, 2013)

Ohhhh yeah I remember now. Damn cementation!


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## ilikesilver (Feb 26, 2013)

pimpneightez said:


> These are what you want. A little bit of work but when you get the hang of it they come off pretty easy with the right tools.



so what does that stuff come from? and whats the silver content, solid or mixed? how do u get the silver out if its mixed?

tim


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## kdaddy (Feb 26, 2013)

If you would put some of your effort into reading and using the search function, you wouldn't need to ask.


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## pimpneightez (Feb 26, 2013)

That's a mixed bag of starter contact points,breaker contact points anything that has a contact point really. some came out of washing machines various electrical switches and there is also some fuse elements from high amprage fuses. I believe most of it is around 80% coin silver. some had gold plate and some had copper plating. It's almost 7 ounces and took me about a year to hoard. I don't come across that stuff to often but I know where to look now and I'm getting more every week. Hopefully by the end of this year I can get about 12 ounces. To make the silver pure your going to have to do some searches on the site it's all here.


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## ilikesilver (Feb 27, 2013)

kdaddy said:


> If you would put some of your effort into reading and using the search function, you wouldn't need to ask.



I was always told that if you don't ask questions, you don't learn anything. If you don't like me asking questions, don't read my topic please. Thank you

and by the way, i have read a lot of this forum and searched it. There is very little on these types of electrical contacts.

Tim


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## kdaddy (Feb 27, 2013)

I don't have a problem with you asking questions that have been answered over and over and over. There's tons of info on silver contacts, deplating silver, types of scrap, and everything else, here for everyone to read. Go back and read your posts. Does this sound like someone who has read and researched? You should learn to test for PM's before you post misinformation on scrap. I am sorry that your feelings are hurt but it doesn't alter the facts stated in this post or my previous one.


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## johnny309 (Feb 27, 2013)

First if my message disturb you...you can ask a moderator to delete it.

So first of all you search what everybody search...a easy way to find silver (or gold..in other cases)....on the level of ten's of toz...
If you had the time to read the posts related to silver...where is found,how can be process,the losses of acid on plated item,etc....you will know better that a working product have more resale value that the silver that is in it.
In both processes... recovery...and refining...of silver....is knowledge...alot of reading.....not just simple 2 answer...and thats that.....
You will see when you begin your processes....what I am talking about.....
You got to read alot... :idea:


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## ilikesilver (Feb 27, 2013)

I'm not trying to upset anyone. I just believe that asking a question doesn't hurt anything. I've read, and still am. But when your tired of reading you ask questions. If I offended anyone, I am hole heartidly sorry. I will try to keep the questions to a minimum, and I plan to keep reading, because there is a lot to learn before jumping in.

Again, Sorry
tim


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## CBentre (Feb 28, 2013)

pimpneightez said:


> That's a mixed bag of starter contact points,breaker contact points anything that has a contact point really. some came out of washing machines various electrical switches and there is also some fuse elements from high amprage fuses. I believe most of it is around 80% coin silver. some had gold plate and some had copper plating. It's almost 7 ounces and took me about a year to hoard. I don't come across that stuff to often but I know where to look now and I'm getting more every week. Hopefully by the end of this year I can get about 12 ounces. To make the silver pure your going to have to do some searches on the site it's all here.



That's good to know, I have over 1000lbs of semi truck starters to dig into. Should be some nice sized contacts there, eh!


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## ilikesilver (Feb 28, 2013)

those things must be monster in size


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## CBentre (Feb 28, 2013)

ilikesilver said:


> those things must be monster in size


Between 30-40 lbs a piece


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## kdaddy (Mar 1, 2013)

The starters from trucks won't have any silver contacts, the solenoid should. The starters with silver contacts are from industrial electric motor starters like 480v 3 phase and such.


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## ilikesilver (Mar 1, 2013)

kdaddy said:


> The starters from trucks won't have any silver contacts, the solenoid should. The starters with silver contacts are from industrial electric motor starters like 480v 3 phase and such.



how big are those kdaddy? 100 pds or so


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## ilikesilver (Mar 1, 2013)

kdaddy said:


> Been there done that, You are wasting your time with anything other than contacts. What you think is solid silver is not, it's plated.
> How do you think you are going to refine silver plated base metal? I have opened every kind of breaker and motor starter known to man and the only solid silver is in the contacts and solder.



Kdaddy i thought solder was mixed also, or is it on computer boards real silver. I remember reading on the forum that a lot of boards contain tin and silver


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## patnor1011 (Mar 1, 2013)

Silver in solder is like 1-5% on newer boards.


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## johnny309 (Mar 2, 2013)

Is like in photo in the attachement (the content of Ag in solder)....but the recovery......is not for the begginer......

P.S.: if it only involveves solder.....the easy way will be HCl....you will make SnCl(for testing)....and recover Ag under a form of AgCl (is then process to silver metal or an oxide).....
But if you have more material to process.....maybe with other materials bearing Ag and Pd....I'll study more the Parker process..... :idea:


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## kdaddy (Mar 2, 2013)

Pics of starters, solder not worth it unless you have a huge amount


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## Geo (Mar 2, 2013)

contacts in automotive alternators are like 50% silver by weight. the last time i processed some, it turned out very well.

alternator bridge rectifier, rather.


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## skippy (Mar 2, 2013)

Geo, are you talking about brushes, or slip rings maybe? I just looked up alternators and I'm not seeing where the silver is going to be on the rectifier.


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## ilikesilver (Mar 2, 2013)

I understand a lot better now why you all said not to bother with those silver coated arms. the cost of the chemicals wouldn't be worth it. that starter looks pretty big, so the contact points must be big also. thank you all for a informative forum, neat pics guys


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## Geo (Mar 2, 2013)

its the actual rectifiers. between aluminum or copper heat sinks.


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## skippy (Mar 3, 2013)

I have to say that's pretty interesting Geo. I guess there are some pretty serious heating concerns in auto alternators that would lead to the use of silver for the superior heat conductance. I tried to find some more info, I couldn't find anything specific to the typical constuction of automotive diodes, but I found that some power diodes do apparently use silver leads from the semiconductor junctions. Maybe some use silver cans too? The heat sinks in some cases are silver, silver plated, or gold plated too from what I was reading.


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## Geo (Mar 3, 2013)

the parts that i processed looks like silver contact points but had some major differences. these were solder-less contacts apparently because they looked used but didnt have any solder and didnt appear to have been sweated off. i cant tell you the make or model because all i received was the buttons. i was told they came from alternator rectifiers. it could have very well been avionics or some type of military vehicals. they dissolved totally in nitric so that tells me they were not tungsten alloy and the solution was deep green so there was at least some copper involved. for all i know they could have come from high end European models. some of those cars have an astounding amount of precious metals in their overall make up.


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## nh6886 (Mar 13, 2013)

Here are some of the contacts from 480v 3ph breakers with analysis. You can tell the tungsten ones visually by the waffle pattern on the back. It takes a long (by comparison) time to get the silver into solution from the the silver/tungsten contacts the upside is the solution is very clean. Read the many cadmium warnings on the forum before making a mess or worse breathing the fumes from melting the solder.
All the Best,
John


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## CBentre (Mar 15, 2013)

Here's a few more silver items to throw up here for this thread, anyone have any experience with either? The second picture is from a automotive wiring harness and the first is from some RF equipment.


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## Smack (Mar 16, 2013)

The second pic is brass with tin over it unless your test proved otherwise. The first pic looks like silver over brass, the color looks right on that one.


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## etack (Mar 16, 2013)

What I have found to be true in contact points is that are from repairable units will have Ag alloy points and disposable units will have AgW points. lots of motor starts and relays are repairable whereas most breakers are not. This is not to be taken as a rule but as a guide. if you buy whole units to scrap this will help in knowing the cost of them. I personally buy them all as the contacts run 40%.It helps to know what the contacts weigh when you look at them. This is the time you buy points off ebay to just get a mix to know the different weights and sizes. I have small sample that i use to show people and to use to gauge what the return will be. 

Eric


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