# Just curious about what we are allowed to say?



## leavemealone (Apr 17, 2009)

Removed by me.
Sorry


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## Palladium (Apr 17, 2009)

As far as i know you can discuss any topic that you want as long as it makes sense and dosen't get crazy in nature.


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## leavemealone (Apr 17, 2009)

Removed by me
Sorry


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## Palladium (Apr 17, 2009)

If this is about Harold again i wish people would just drop it. If you have something productive you wish to discuss then no one will say anything, but going back again and agin to Harold is getting old. Harold has his ways and that's just Harold.

If he hasn't objected to anything you have said then just ask your questions no matter what it may be and someone will discuss them at will.
But it sounds like your more interested in harold basshing than asking your question which you fear might not be posted or locked.

I'll be happy to help in any discussion that makes sense, but not this topic.


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## leavemealone (Apr 17, 2009)

Removed by me
Sorry


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## Noxx (Apr 17, 2009)

You carry the ip of someone who was kicked in the past. This may not be for nothing ?

P.S. Most of the locked posts are by me. If you have any problems with this, we can surely send me a PM.


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## leavemealone (Apr 17, 2009)

I am not hiding anything,I PM'd you,noxx and lou and stated in both PM's that I had been banned from the forum in the past.That was weeks ago.I have not hidden that fact or tried to hide behind anything.I have kept my posts clean and have not said one bad word about a specific member,reguardless of whether I feel I was in the right or in the wrong.Just please do not put me in the catagory of someone trying to hide behind a different name,because I did bring it to your(and Lou's) attention as soon as I opened this account.But again,I have strictly adhered to the rules.


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## butcher (Apr 17, 2009)

leave me alone lets just concentrate on getting gold and learning, and making friends, whats done is done., how about silver?


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## leavemealone (Apr 17, 2009)

Agreed.I believe it was taken a little out of context,but it would be too futile to rewrite it in a different manner.Besides its not accomplishing anything productive.


I have another problem I need to present and see if anyone else has experienced this.I processed some GF watch bands.I had 9 ounces of 1/20th 10K and ran them in a bath of (2000ml)muratic on the hotplate for a day.Changed the acid about 30 hours later and the second bath of course was lighter at the end of about 30 hours.Once the bands were clearly done,I put them in my 1000ml beaker with clean muratic and boiled it for an hour.The solution after 1 hour was pretty darn clean,so I boiled them in 3 water baths,then one more bath of clean boiling muratic.The acid at that point was perfectly colorless.Well I realized I had no SMB so I decided to just melt the bands into a mold.For some reason I can not get them to melt correctly.I can get any one part of the material to melt,but can seem to get it to all "come together" uniformly.Does this sound familiar to anyone?Today I built a furnace and still cant get it all to melt.
Thanks


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## Lou (Apr 18, 2009)

It is the fact that surface oxides are preventing it from coalescing. HCl removed much of the base metals, which is on track, but you should still consider aqueous refining rather than jumping to melting--generally, the only time anyone should be melting anything is if they're inquarting or they are melting pure material. I have no idea if you want to send out material that is impure and hope on a return, or if you'd rather get it fine and know what goes out the door and what to expect. Doing the latter is preferable for obvious reasons.


Sometimes it is best to let sleeping dogs lie. I didn't read your PM from way back when, but I can strongly advise that you continue with your new leaf turned and keep it that way. We have new ways of making sure people don't come back (wow that sounds sinister) and further security protocols are in the works. We all make mistakes but what separates the miserable from the mighty is learning from them.

I don't like to think any of our moderation is arbitrary, but there's an element of context involved. I'm sure I've cursed on the forum before for emphasis, but what I said was not said in a malicious context.

Either way, there personal attacks shall not be tolerated. There should be no reason to have a perpetual bad attitude here. There is no tyranny--we have posted new rules on what is expected from members and moderators. 

I'm adding to your first post to make my position at least clear.


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## Harold_V (Apr 18, 2009)

leavemealone said:


> I never said harold,or anyone in particular.What I wrote when I started this thread was very well thought out,and I censored everything I wrote as to not offend anyone in particular.


Yes, in your mind, you did that. In my mind, what you're doing is proving that you should have been banned, and likely will be again (all of you). 

The point you didn't get, and are not getting now, is that you displayed bad manners in your first response to me. I offered you an out, a simple apology. Not because I wanted you to grovel, but because it would have spoken volumes about your willingness to abide by board rules and your desire to be a part of this community. Instead, you chose to escalate. That's what you're doing now. None of us have been fooled by your multiple registrations---and you are not gaining points by persisting in escalating this issue. 

Drop the subject and get on with refining. Do not come here raising hell as you have done, and do not expect support and sympathy when you get your butt kicked for behaving like a moron. Frankly, we don't want people here that can't behave as an adult, and can't accept constructive advice. Thus far you have shown you are unable to do either, proven once again by the long diatribe you posted. 

You claim to have two awesome kids? 

They must be very proud of you for the way you have behaved on this forum. What wonderful examples you provide for their development.



> I want people to write in and comment about the original post without "taking sides",just be yourself and comment the way you would normally comment(censored of course).



What you want makes no difference. What matters are the rules of the board, which have been spelled out for you in clear and concise English. If you find they are not clear to you, ask for clarification from those that control the board, not the members at large. 

If you find you can not abide by the rules and behave as an adult, displaying proper manners and not insulting others, we don't want you here. Not now, not next week, not ever. You, nor anyone else, is free to flame people on this forum. 

Now, have you learned anything, or are you going to escalate once again?

Harold


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Apr 18, 2009)

levemealone:

Damn!!!!!!!!......You can say whatever you want!!!!..this is a free Forum BUT rules must be obeyed.May I ask you if you know the Forum´s rules?,this is the first thing we have got to do before getting into the Forum.About Forum´s rules there is a golden oneO NOT INSULT ANYONE.

I do not allow the cowardly and unfair attacks on Harold,who insults Harold insults me too.

Harold,I express you my respect,appreciation and admiration.

Manuel


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## oef62nd (Apr 18, 2009)

There was a poll to kick Harold off the forum but someone locked it

I think he was losing.......LOL

Refine Gold......


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## firewalker (Apr 18, 2009)

I was kicked off once for being rude to Harold, and after this I will probley be kicked off again

NOXX:

How can you leave Harold call people names like "moron" and degrade his family like he did in this thread?

That violates at least 2 of the rules Harold posted himself.


> You, nor anyone else, is free to flame people on this forum.



I do not believe I have been dis-respectfull to anyone, just asking a question members would like to see answered.


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## jimdoc (Apr 18, 2009)

The few with problems with Harold should keep it to yourselves.
Nobody wants answers to your questions but you. Most of us 
understand what is being said, and agree with the moderators.
If a few were able to get someone like Harold kicked of the forum
this place would suck. Everybody grow up or shut up. Constantly
bringing this back up is annoying and needs to stop. 
Jim


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## Oz (Apr 18, 2009)

I see but 2 people that do not care for Harold’s moderation. Both have had words with him in the past and been banned. Now go and count the people that appreciate and like Harold’s contributions to the forum. Noxx is the only one that bans people, he is also the owner of the forum. The forum is free, but it is not a democracy it is a dictatorship


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## firewalker (Apr 18, 2009)

I am sorry if I offended you in my question. I did not bring the subject up first.

I was just asking the question about why moderators could break the rules and we pions can not. This thread is a perfect example. 

I do understand that NOXX is the boss, and that all the moderators report to him. I respect all and have learned a lot in this forum. 

For the record, I have PM'd Noxx and moderators without any response.


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Apr 18, 2009)

Oef62nd:

Let me tell you something:just a couple* want Harold out of the Forum.Do not deceive yourself,the poll was locked by Forum´s policys.Harold is recongnized by the vast majority of the Forum´s members.

We all want Harold here,keep it in mind.

Manuel




*edited by Lou: *NO name calling please*; it will make you no better than the people we ban.


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Apr 18, 2009)

Firewalker:

Stop that game...Harold is a model of gentleness and tolerance.You guys have provoked him.You violated the rules first then the responsibility and the consequences fall on you.You have started it,you can stop it.

Manuel


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## Harold_V (Apr 18, 2009)

firewalker said:


> I was kicked off once for being rude to Harold, and after this I will probley be kicked off again
> 
> NOXX:
> 
> How can you leave Harold call people names like "moron" and degrade his family like he did in this thread?



Read my comments again. *No one was called a moron.* I commented on a behavior, an observation that is difficult to refute. I said this person is behaving like one. He is. If his behavior changed, he would no longer be behaving like a moron.

Regards "his family"------what I stated is fact. Any parent that displays disrespect for authority is setting examples for children that are not in their best interest. I am the one that made the observation. I am no more responsible for this person's behavior than I would be responsible if he was accused of fraud. What he does reflects on him, not the world around him. He is solely in control of his actions. If he isn't able, or refuses to conform to the rules set forth on this forum, he is displaying characteristics of a criminal mind and should expect to have that pointed out to him, just as it was pointed out to you. 



> That violates at least 2 of the rules Harold posted himself





Harold said:


> You, nor anyone else, is free to flame people on this forum.





firewalker said:


> I do not believe I have been dis-respectfull to anyone, just asking a question members would like to see answered.


You, having worked in law enforcement, should know better than all, that this forum must operate with rules and regulations. You surely understand that there must be a party that insures that occurs. *I am that party.* It is my job to get in your face, or the face of anyone that violates board rules. Do you have any examples where I have made any questionable comments towards those that have manners?

My advice to you, or anyone else that feels their opinion of me, or others, is more important than observing rules, trying to be a welcome member of the forum, is to leave. You told the world that you would not be back, yet you are here. It is obvious to me that you feel it more important to "have your say" than to cooperate. That does not bode well for your future here. 

Anyone that must ask a question about what they can say, not knowing what would be acceptable, should leave. They don't have a clue how to get along in polite company. 

Anyone that is unhappy that they can't say what they want, when they want, should leave. 

We have been fortunate to have gathered a collection of knowledgeable people here, people that bring to the table information that has, previously, been out of reach for the average guy. What we don't need is people behaving like morons, driving these folks away. 

The constant barrage of negative posting from a few individuals is serving to tighten security, ultimately ending in the permanent expulsion of individuals that find their need to speak out more important than the operation of the board's intended purpose. 

Those that prefer to remain would be well served to undergo a change of attitude. That would include reading posts with the intended message instead of turning everything that is said into a perceived problem when that was not the intention. 

Harold


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## lazersteve (Apr 18, 2009)

firewalker said:


> For the record, I have PM'd Noxx and moderators without any response.



Perhaps you did something wrong when sending as I have not seen it today?




firewalker said:


> That violates at least 2 of the rules Harold posted himself.



Harold posted the rules after Noxx and all the moderators put in their 2 cents and signed off on them. To tell someone they are acting like a moron is not calling them a moron, just that they are behaving like one. Acting like a moron can be changed, being one cannot.




oef62nd said:


> There was a poll to kick Harold off the forum but someone locked it
> 
> I think he was losing.......LOL



Keith,

Your poll was childish and deserved to be locked. There is no place on the forum for foolishness like this. 

Johhny,

You were banned for good reason. In my opinion your attitude has improved since then. Keep up the good work and don't let your personal feelings get in the way of your progress here. Life is too short to live in the past.


Let's all put aside our petty differences and learn something useful here, not squabble like little children over meaningless rhetoric.

Like who you do, and dislike who you do, but don't express it in your post either directly or indirectly.

All,

Respect here is something you earn by your deeds, not through knowledge, class, money, popularity, position, number of posts, or who you can defame.

As for this entire thread I think it's a perfect example of what all the forum members who are truly interested in learning to refine *DO NOT* want to see on this forum.

Please stop this childish discussion as it's interrupting the progress on my latest video and doesn't really deserve the time and energy I've already devoted to reading and responding to it today.


Steve


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## Harold_V (Apr 18, 2009)

oef62nd said:


> There was a poll to kick Harold off the forum but someone locked it
> 
> I think he was losing.......LOL
> 
> Refine Gold......



Yes, a pole introduced by you under yet another of your registrations. You were the only one to vote. Go figure!

You don't learn -----you just keep trying to break the rules. Your time is limited here, as you will soon discover. 

Harold


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## glorycloud (Apr 18, 2009)

There was only One who could speak to the storm and command it to cease. I wish the winds and waves that froth about the forum could be stilled with a word but they can't and they probably won't. People will continue to be people and friends, that's all there is to it. 

I, for one, am grateful for the advice, mentoring amd instruction that are graciously given for free. Hat's off to the founder, the moderators and all those who choose to make this forum a friendly place where all are welcome. 

For those who insist on their right to throw stones, please stop. Lay them down and either play nice or quite frankly: go find a better place to releace your toxic BFRC. Please!!! 

In the words of Forest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that."


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Apr 18, 2009)

If they continue attacking I continue defending.I am used to seeing in front of my enemies.I do not care if I lose the whole day.


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## firewalker (Apr 18, 2009)

Point well taken from this end. Harold, I apoligize in front of everyone for the dis-respect I have shown you. I got involved when there was a confrontation between you and johnny, johnny being a good friend. I do dis-agree with your opinions some times, but from now on, I will address any differences via PM

Steve, I did PM the moderators and NOXX when the first incident happened. I heard back only once from Lou. 

Harold, I did say I would not be back, but the refining of gold is to important to me.

Have fun with gold everone.......Jack


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## Palladium (Apr 18, 2009)

firewalker said:


> but the refining of gold is to important to me.



That's the spirit Jack. :wink: :wink: :wink:


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Apr 18, 2009)

Jack:

Here is my hand...Let us shake hands and go back to work.

Have a nice day.

Manuel


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## Oz (Apr 18, 2009)

Firewalker,

It is nice to hear your change of heart, I was concerned when your first post being back was in support of a detractor. 

You mentioned “Harold, I did say I would not be back, but the refining of gold is to important to me.” This is indeed the best place to learn refining, is it not?

All segments of society have rules, the rules here are simple and easy to live with, as well as necessary in my opinion.


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## Anonymous (Apr 18, 2009)

I am pretty sure firewalker said Johnny will have a post when he returns home.

Thanks all.


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## oef62nd (Apr 18, 2009)

Lets get back to refining gold check this out

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4706


Refining Gold


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## leavemealone (Apr 18, 2009)

> From Johnny
> Agreed.Besides its not accomplishing anything productive.


Ok guys I just got home.

I am not sure why this is still going on.It was not accomplishing anything and it was negative so I dropped it yesterday.
I am not continuing with any of this,I agreed to drop it and I moved on and even went as far as to try to help a couple of other people last night.
This was childish and immature and I never should have brought it up.I didnt think that what I originally wrote would have caused this much drama,and I am sorry for it.I don't like assumptions and allegations made about me when most of the people making them do not know me.Just because I did something immature does not make me an immature person.
I want to extend a personal thanks to butcher.Your one sentence comment,carried more wisdom and maturity than I have seen in a long time.I appreciate you helping to pull me in a different direction,rather than push.I don't know you,and I think that I am missing out on what could be a very good friend,and we can all use some more friends,especially in this economic crunch we are all in.I'm sorry if I offended anyone,wasnt my intentions,like I said,It was stupid and immature and I am too old to be doing stuff like that.Steve I know that nothing I do reflects on you,but I guess I am personally sorry to you.Other than jack you know me better than anyone,and other than jack you have helped me financially more than anyone.Without you buying what you have from me,we would have spent a few hungry nights here at home.  

EVERYONE....even though I didnt mention anyones name and didnt call anyone names,that did not give me any right to post what I did.It seemed harmless at first,I realize now how wrong I was.

I want the record to show that I did drop this yesterday,and I was not involved in it going this far.I just got home,I saw how far it has gone,and felt I need to humbly apologize and ask that everyone please accept my apology and move on as I did yesterday.


Now I've got plenty of ribs and Budlight for anyone that wants some.  
(one catch you have to bring gold) :wink:


> Here is my hand...Let us shake hands and go back to work.
> 
> Have a nice day.
> 
> Manuel


My hand is out also for anyone that is willing to shake.

I need to add this.....I realize what started all of this, I was not looking at harold as an authority figure.That was my first and biggest mistake.I am sorry harold for not giving you the respect you deserve.If I didnt know a dam thing about you,everyone else here would make sure that I knew everything I needed to know about you!That is a very commendable following of friends.....and thats a list I want to be a part of if you'll let me join it.If I see something that I feel should be brought to your attention in the future I will send you a PM.
I hope everyone can feel the sincerety and humility I am offering.I have fallen,will you guys please help pick me up and brush me off so I can try to shine again?


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## firewalker (Apr 18, 2009)

woof woof, save a sandwich for me ...Jack


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Apr 18, 2009)

levemealone:

Let us shake hands...you never ceased to shine.The Forum was made to help each other.

Regards.

Manuel


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## leavemealone (Apr 18, 2009)

<- hands jack a half rack and a 6 pack.
And juan a smoked turkey leg and a couple of cold coronas.


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## Oz (Apr 18, 2009)

Leavemealone,

If you are serious it might be a good faith gesture on your part to disclose all of your identities and ask Noxx to close all but one. I do not know the moderators opinion of you at this moment but it provides an opportunity for you to be judged as to just how serious you are about this change by giving full disclosure.

Personally it would go a long way as to changing my opinion of you, as deceit is very distasteful to me. The more honest you are, the more inclined I am to believe you.


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## leavemealone (Apr 18, 2009)

I am sorry you feel that way oz.However the other 2 accounts (one mine,and one my wifes)were already closed.This is the one and only account that I have.And as far as deceit,I notified noxx and lou when I opened this account and made them aware that it was me,so I did the right thing there.Lou has stated that he did not remember recieving it but I gave him the information(day and time)it was sent,and offered to forward him a copy.
If you believe that disclosure = honesty,then here.My name is Johnny.I have owned a tree service in central florida for 15 years(since hurricane Erin in '94).Married the love of my life when I was 20,been married every since and I swear shes more beautiful now than she was then.I have a myspace account(just look up JW in cocoa fl.)On june 19th 1989 I broke both of my legs and my left arm in a very bad motorcycle wreck.Later that same year I was the youngest person to be enrolled at ITT tech.In seventh grade I got double 700's on my asat testing.One of 3 people in the schools history(at that time) to ever do that.A little over 10 years ago I pulled a man from a burning car after he almost killed the 4 of us,from passing out drunk behind the wheel.I love to fish and hunt,and especially spend time with my little buddy(my son).Hes ten and looking forward to his 11th birthday this tuesday(wants to spend the day at the skate park with me) :wink: 
I have processed for about 2 1/2 years and I swear I am going in reverse at all times.Oh heres one.......2 months ago I dropped(dont ask me how)a single drop of nitric on my left shoe.I have a scab still to this day.And it is nasty.I love experimenting on things,always trying to reinvent the wheel,unsuccesful so far.I could spend the rest of this year watching steves videos,and be happy to do so.Sometimes I feel satisfied just watching others process.I am infatuated with the look and feel of gold.Jack sent me almost a full ounce to pay for our thanksgiving and christmas last year,and I almost didnt sell the darn thing I was so impressed with it.Oh and I told a lie to someone I know.....I told them I helped make it.Complete bs but I was so ashamed that he was able to get that much and I havent been able to get anything that I could help myself.We love going to auctions.I want to go on the rest of the night,this is quite liberating,but I suspect that I have shared enough.
I hope this helps you get an image of me.If you ever have any questions don't be afraid to just pm me.I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
Johnny


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## Palladium (Apr 18, 2009)

Welcome to the forum Johnny. Aren't kids the greatest.

:wink:


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## leavemealone (Apr 18, 2009)

Thank you,and yes they are.I tried to put pictures up of mine at halloween but couldnt get them to fit.They help keep me young,especially hunter.
Thanks again.
Johnny
Has anyone had any experience with spectrophotometry?I have about 24 atomic absorption lamps that I am trying to sell.I think I will put them on the "Things for sale" catagory.
Thanks again Palladium.


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## Lou (Apr 18, 2009)

I have just a little experience with spectrophotometry  and I responded to your thread. 

If I don't need any of them (due to compatibility issues or me having some), I'll be sure to help you write a good listing and advertisement so you get top dollar for them. You can put them on a better site than ebay too. 24 of those ought to pay for a decent Christmas, new it's about 10K depending on the type of lamp (if it's hollow cathode, usually cheaper).


Lou


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## leavemealone (Apr 18, 2009)

> new it's about 10K depending on the type of lamp (if it's hollow cathode, usually cheaper).


They are hollow cathode,but if I ended up with half of that Id probably die of a heart attack,or joy!

Hi lou.Thanks for writing.I can use all the help I can get,I need to sell them in the next week or two,Id rather not say why but I talked to steve about the problem.I sold 26 already on ebay and a guy bought them before I knew what they were really worth.Then to make matters worse he took 2 weeks to pay,and hes in north korea.Well I am grateful I at least got the money I did.I owe a ton of thanks to jack for researching these for me and finding a good informative website.You know how depressed I was getting about all of it and I owe you so much thanks.
But lou if you could help I would be very grateful,unless the 2 people that contacted me already don't end up buying them.I don't know if they want me saying thier names so I won't out of respect to them.
Thanks so much to everyone for helping me see my fault and opening your arms to me.
Johnny


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## Harold_V (Apr 18, 2009)

For the record, I have received a very polite and welcome PM from Johnny. I think he has been exceptional in asking forgiveness and wishing to become a valued member of this forum. 

From me, he gets a big *thumbs up!* It takes a real man to recognize shortcomings and to ask to be forgiven, becoming a valuable member of this exceptional forum!

After all, isn't that all we, as moderators, have ever asked from readers?

You're aces, Johnny. Lets try to move forward with a good and comfortable relationship. I hope you become one of the indespensible members. You certainly are displaying all the right things. 

Harold


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## leavemealone (Apr 18, 2009)

> It takes a real man to recognize shortcomings and to ask to be forgiven


Do real men cry when they read responses like that?If so then I am a real man.If not..........then it must just be the onions.
Thank you harold for the kind words,coming from someone that grew up without a father,you really touched me.


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## glorycloud (Apr 18, 2009)




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## Platdigger (Apr 18, 2009)

Cool!....


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## qst42know (Apr 18, 2009)

I'm glad that storm has passed.


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## Oz (Apr 19, 2009)

Leavemealone,

I thank you for your unabashed candor in response to me. I also wish to publicly state to the rest of the forum that I found my self in the position of needing to apologize to leavemealone after a PM discussion, as I had wrongly associated him with another member that had multiple accounts. I am of the opinion that a man’s word is his most valued possession that he has true control of. I also believe in promptly apologizing when I am wrong.

I wish him the best in his new endeavors.


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## Harold_V (Apr 19, 2009)

firewalker said:


> Point well taken from this end. Harold, I apoligize in front of everyone for the dis-respect I have shown you.


Apology happily accepted! 8) 

We really need to get this forum back on track. All too much valuable time has been wasted for everyone----when everything could have been avoided by folks simply having respect for the other guy--even when they may not like him (or her), and what they stand for. 

There is too much at stake for readers should this forum fall into disrepair. Noxx, our worthy leader, has his studies to tend to, which should be his top priority. Those of us that moderate try to keep the board running smoothly so he has no worries. To me, it's an important calling. I see Noxx as the son I never had.... and I want to insure that his creation, this very forum, is successful. 

Lets all get on the tongue of the wagon and start pulling in the same direction. All of us will accomplish so much more!

Thanks to all for their support and cooperation, especially my most dedicated and faithful follower and supporter, *Juan Manuel Arcos Frank*. Gracias, amigo!

Harold


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