# Pocket Gold



## Long Shot (Mar 29, 2016)

Hey All. So...I live in southern Ontario, just south of where gold was discovered back in the early 1900's (Eldorado). This drove an aggressive but short lived rush to this area and is an easy matter to look up with a search. There is a wide band of gold containing quartz in that area but it is so thin that unless the price gets way up there it is not worth lode mining. Placer gold is non-existent around here and this is mainly due to glacial action - some say there are large placers at the bottom of lakes both around here and specifically in Lake Champlain Vermont due to that action. I have often wondered though if one might find "pockets" of gold in and around river rocks both currently in rivers or creeks and on old high banks. Has anyone local ever looked into this? Probably a dumb question as if someone has and found some they are probably not going to tell anyone about it! Just curious. The area would be from Marmora to Bannockburn to Tweed areas.


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## torscot (Mar 30, 2016)

I have a few gold specimens from that area. in calcite, quartz and arsenopyrite. All need magnification to be seen. There are no reported alluvial deposits in the area that are recorded. As you said, glaciation, it's all down ice now. "float" Ore bearing rock that has been moved down ice by glaciers. If you want a real long shot that might pay off, Check the rock piles and fenclines to the south south west of known gold bearing zones. Just make sure you know what the gold bearing rock looks like. look for rock with square edges, not rounded, so the glaciers haven't moved it far. Rotten Pyrite, and weathered calcite. If anything you would have to look really close because remember most of the gold was not visible to the naked eye. A lot of the gold there was locked up in arsenopyrite. Your best bet is to create your own placer. crushing. Many of these old prospects have returned to farmland today, and the waste rock is in the fencelines or just under the surface around the old exploration shafts. Just remember only a few of those old shafts even had gold. There's one wives tale in the area that an oldtimer crushed and panned the waste rock from the Richardson mine and found enough gold each day to survive the depression. That's one or two grams a day of backbreaking labour. I've read that story in a couple places. Another rumor that has circulated recently and I can't confirm it, is that the current owners of the Richardson mine property has opened it for mineral collecting (for a fee). If you know where the Richardson mine was located in Eldorado, it might be worth an afternoon trip to see if this is true. You're not far. You might as well go to where there was actually gold found in reasonable quantities, bring home a bunch of likely rock, crush it pan it and see what's leftover.

There are several good internet articles on the Eldorado gold rush. I have a well written book entitled _Ontario's First Gold rush ELDORADO_ by Gerry Boyce. Published 1992. This covers the historical aspects of the gold rush with many of the finds, frauds, and lies that went along with it. 

Good luck, It's still there. Only in minute quantities. Oh, and remember most of this area is now private property. Some of the landowners don't like mineral collectors. Don't ask how I found that one out  

One more note. Gold was discovered in Hastings County a few miles north of Madoc ON in 1866 on the site of the Richardson farm. Ontario's first "real" gold discovery, soon to be known as Eldorado Ontario.

Rob.

Edited twice for correct date and county


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## Reno Chris (Mar 30, 2016)

Perhaps I am not understanding your question, but concentrations of gold in rivers and around river rocks are placers, and you say there are no placers. Glaciers destroy placer deposits. Placer concentrations form by natural processes of flowing water and erosion, which wash away lighter materials and leave behind concentrations of heavy materials like gold. Glaciers turn over and mix every thing up, destroying those natural concentrations. People who say there are rich placers under lakes have no idea what they are talking about. Lakes are scour spots where glaciers dig down and then are often sealed by mixed piles of glacial moraines. 
On the other hand, the term "Pocket gold" as normally used by prospectors and miners means rich spots in veins and other hard rock deposits in the earth - materials that are "in place" and not eroded or moved. They can be found at any point - not necessarily around rivers or streams.


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## torscot (Mar 30, 2016)

Reno Chris, I just saw your post as mine was uploaded. The original 1866 discovery was pocket gold. A phenomenally rich cavern that was discovered by accident. the calcium based minerals had weathered out over the eons and left this cave of gold. Only one like this was ever discovered in the entire gold district. Even this mine didn't produce a profit, it was used by promoter's, speculators and tied up for years in legal wrangling. Ahhhh, gold mining.
RL


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## Long Shot (Mar 30, 2016)

Thanks Torscot - you must be local as I have read and heard most of what you post. Yes, a cavern discovered by accident and laden with gold. I might disagree with your remark about profitability though, local lore rumors 100 lb bags were removed by the shovel full for this particular site. I think the Richardson's did alright, and to agree, not so others.The "rush" yielded very little in the big picture except merchant profiteering and a polluted environment.

Reno Chris - I have followed many of your posts and comments and have good respect for you. This particular area has a large granite pluton and is very close to where the ancient sea bed meets the beginnings of the Canadian Shield formation. The area south of this has had mines of talc, fluorite, iron and gold. The Richardson Mine my friend speaks of was a - for the lack of better expression, an ancient gas / super-heated liquid bubble on the edge of the pluton that survived or was below glaciation. Interestingly, lore has it it was discovered digging a fence post hole. Wish I had that luck brother! The entire circular area was staked and mined (the brother of the man who invented the Gatling Gun had, and I think his family still does have, an open mine claim there). Most of these mines were of the arsenopyrite variety and thus there is a big arsenic problem in the area. However, nuggets have been found which is why I raise this question. I also totally agree with your assessment of lake bottom deposits - just that I've read that there is speculation of a large placer in Lake Champlain. Who knows? Kind of comes down to just how much demand there is versus costs to recover.

I agree that glaciation would tend to REALLY stir things up. That is part of the question I suppose - gold is 19 times heavier than water so I wonder if there are "pockets" to be found where, regardless of glacier melt and / or action, nature would sequester. I suppose the old adage "gold is where you find it" comes in on this one.


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## nickvc (Mar 31, 2016)

I am not a miner but always read any posts concerning mining because I have no chance of doing any in my neck of the woods.
If I understand what Chris is saying the problem with moving glaciers is that they scour the earth like huge dozers, the pressure they exert will scour down and into bed rock and then move it on elsewhere .
I guess the best thing to ever know is where it deposited any of those values scoured from the original site, now if you can work that out you may end up a very rich man 8)


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## Long Shot (Mar 31, 2016)

That's the speculation about Lake Champlain Nick. Just try to get past the environmental roadblocks to dredge there!


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## nickvc (Mar 31, 2016)

Can't you scuba dive it like that show, I think I would want to know a little more about the bottom of the lake, use sonar to map out the lake bed contours and then do some dives to see if there is any gold down there, as I say I'm not a miner so my thoughts could be rubbish


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## torscot (Mar 31, 2016)

The pegmatite formations of the Bancroft area that have provided so many fine mineral specimens slightly to the north, have been reported to have been upwards of two miles below the surface when formed. So my assumption on the gold deposits south of there is they were formed at the same levels. So yes, most of that has been exported to to the U.S.A. by weathering and glaciation over the last few billion years and is more than likely is in Vermont, or even further south today. 

There's a string of posts on here about some fellows on a hobby basis looking for and finding minute quantities in alluvial gold in OH. (I couldn't find it this morning after a quick search, I remember reading it though) There's only one place that came from. Northern Ontario. I have heard of the gravel crushers in the gravel pits near London Ont. being ruined by large pieces of copper float being fed into them. This originated in the Upper peninsula MI plus or minus 250 miles to the north as the crow flies. I have personally collected silver specimens in the bush as far south as 2 miles below Cobalt ON. Silver float from the same area has been reported as far south as Temagami, 30 miles away. 

If you're interested, I have a copy of the book _Placer and float deposits of Ontario._ I think it's now available on line too. 

I have read of those hundred pound bags coming out the Richardson mine also. What about the poor stockholders that put up $300,000 in 1869 based on those bags. Only to have the sheriff seize the assets before the year was out.

As you say, It's were you find it. That's why I mentioned to check the fencelines and rock piles in that area. Who knows?

I am in Guelph, ON. and have collected minerals in Marmora and the Bancroft area a few times.

Rob.


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## Long Shot (Apr 1, 2016)

Hey Guys. Thanks for that info Rob - tomorrow being Saturday perhaps I'll go to the town library and see if they have that book in stock. I have searched the MMND info and there are spotty occurrences of silver, gold, copper all over the area between Bancroft and Madoc. Having researched placer formation a few years back I agree that any large placer would not be found around here due to glaciation, as has been stated, just like a scouring bulldozer. It is said one can find the mother lode by carefully backtracking and sweeping the flow path. Because those formations have long since been clipped off (two miles worth) large veins and thus, decent placers, are unlikely. I am very familiar with the Bancroft area and agree with what you say.

Nick - Lake Champlain is long and deep and as Reno has said, a wide mix of aggregate would likely be overbearing any placer deposits. It is just speculation to my knowledge based on glacial movement theory. Prospecting as you suggest is way out of my league financially, geographically and likely demographically ( I don't think the Americans would be very cooperative entertaining a Canadian in a venture like this). I like watching snow and ice banks melt on a warm spring day for this very reason - it gives one a visual of what it might of been like as the glacier was melting / retreating / classifying on a very small scale.

I guess my original thoughts on this is that regardless of glaciation, gold is heavy (dense) and as the melt happened it is hard to believe that ALL gold would have been washed or pushed away from an area known to have gold bearing rock. Maybe I'm completely out to lunch and maybe I didn't clearly state my thoughts in the OP but I would think that somewhere along the line, given the highly fractured nature of the native rock there are isolated, small placers, a few small nuggets or fines that would have settled out in those cracks. Not sure. I guess the only way to find out is to go crack shooting.


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## g_axelsson (Apr 1, 2016)

Only way to make placer deposits is with flowing water. That is what sorts the material based on density.

Flowing ice locks the gravel, sand and boulders frozen in place inside the ice. When the ice moves over the bedrock it drags along any loose boulder, grinding the bedrock with the rocks frozen in the bottom of the ice pressed down with the force of a km or more ice above.
Any placer deposits from before the ice age that isn't in a crevice or deep hole in the bedrock is just pushed away with all the other gravel, and a lot sitting on bedrock will be removed when the bedrock itself is crushed by the ice.

New placer deposits are formed today in rivers and streams, but if the sediments that the stream is running through doesn't contain much gold there will not be any large deposits.

I live right in a landscape formed by the ice. There are a few areas with gold ores "upstream" and the ice have transported it here and also mixed it well. So whenever I go panning in the area I find a few microscopic grains of gold but never in concentrations that would make it worthwhile. It's just a nice way to spend a day at the river.

Göran


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## torscot (Apr 2, 2016)

Here's a link to the the book on placer and float from the OGS (Ontario Geologial Survey) Or now known as ministry of northern development and mines. 229 pages of Ontario localities. Page 7 dealing with esker sedimentation, Hastings county, might prove very interesting to you. it shows no known placer or float deposits in your area.

http://www.geologyontario.mndm.gov.on.ca/mndmfiles/pub/data/imaging/MDC017/MDC017.pdf?expires=20070311062216&secretname=.

Here's another link I have found absolutely invaluable when searching their website. This is an old search engine that is still useable. I can't seem to access it from the current site. The link's saved on my computer and still works. The new search engine ( if you want to call it a search engine)I have found very difficult to use unless you enter all the information you are trying to search for before you click search. Useless and frustrating.

http://www.geologyontario.mndm.gov.on.ca/mndmfiles/pub/data/imaging/MDC017/MDC017.pdf?expires=20070311062216&secretname=

Here's another one for you. You must have Google earth installed on your "confuser". It shows every abandoned mine and prospect recorded in the MNDM Database. Thousands

http://www.geologyontario.mndm.gov.on.ca/

Open the link to OGS earth. Open the Abandoned mines link. It will all unfold infront of you, if you have Google Earth.

If you want to find placer gold in Ontario. The Vermillion River, Sudbury. You'll easly get colour in your pan. As Goran said, it's a great days relaxation. In the Placer and float book, there's one local that records nuggets up to 6 oz. When your heart stops racing, I can assure you it is a printing error. That claim is now surrounded by provincial park. When it's abandoned it will no longer be legal to prospect or collect there. You need a boat to get into it too. Don't waste your time getting excited over that one.

Have fun. You'll have more information in front of you than you could ever digest.

Rob.


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