# Slightly magnetic 800 flatware



## Anonymous (Dec 14, 2010)

So I stumbled upon some flatware marked "Italy 800" and now have about two pounds of it.

I took it down to sell to the local coin an scrap place and the girl seemed excited about it. However when she acid tested it, she looked a little puzzled, and left and went to speak with someone else. She came back and took a big notch out with a file and re-tested. She said she wasn't sure about it and "wasn't authorized" to purchase it from me. :shock: 

She honestly didn't know she said. :shock: ??? She said the acid test had an unusual reaction..

I took my gigantic magnet to it and it seems *slightly* magnetic.... like just a slight pull towards it. When I took an ordinary knife out of my kitchen drawer it pulls violently towards the magnet in comparison... I say violently because I pinched my finger when I did it lol

What do I have? Poop-soup? If the stuff is 800/1000 silver, could the other 20% be a magnetic material, causing the slight magnetic pull? What about the funky acid reaction?


----------



## Harold_V (Dec 15, 2010)

Why it's mildly magnetic I can't say, but if you can gain access to a couple drops of nitric acid you can test to determine if they are a silver alloy, or not. 
Filing a notch was a real good idea, to insure that if the pieces are not solid, the core will react differently. 

When you test silver with nitric, sterling tends to turn a rather cream color, and the solution will yield silver chloride if you apply a little table salt. That would be a white substance, and if there's enough silver dissolved, it could form a curd. That is not to suggest that I think the material is sterling---it's just intended to give you an idea how the tests look. 

Assuming the marking represents 800 fine silver, a test with nitric would yield very similar results, but if you allowed the drop of nitric to remain long enough, the drop of solution that forms would slowly turn a greenish color, the result of silver and copper dissolving (that's assuming the alloy is silver and copper).

If you test the filed groove and get a green reaction from the bottom of the groove, but a distinctively different reaction near the top, that's a pretty good sign the piece isn't solid silver, but plated. Plated flatware is generally made of a white base metal alloy, so when silver is worn away, the color is still similar to that of silver. 

Testing, in this case, is everything. A fast and easy test would be to file a notch, then apply a drop of Schwerter's solution. When applied to silver, it displays a blood red reaction. As the silver content of the item in question goes lower, the blood red color shifts towards a brown color, so with some training you can, more or less, evaluate the material to some degree. 

Hope some of this helps. Without acid, you're pretty much at the mercy of others.

Harold


----------



## Irons (Dec 15, 2010)

Nickel Silver

Nickel is magnetic, so, if it was plated Nickel Silver (Cupro Nickel), your reaction to the magnet would fit.

Personally, I would regard with suspicion, articles made in Italy.


----------



## philddreamer (Dec 15, 2010)

Thru the years I bought silver plate; when & ran into the forum earlier this year, I tried de-plating the silver. I ended up with a mess. Come to find out, I had a fare amount of nickle silver or also known as German silver. Yeap, there is no silver in it, with a few exeptions. It doesn't mean it has no value, some of the craft work can be excellent & of interest to many folks. Check for hallmarks & craftman and try selling it.

Phil


----------



## kadriver (Dec 16, 2010)

This is the way I test items such as you have described above:

Take one of the forks and cut off about 1/4 inch of one of the fork prongs.

Put this in a test tube and add about 2 ml 70% nitric acid & 2 ml distilled water.

Carefully heat the test tube until the metal dissolves completely. It may take a few minutes. Do this outdoors as the fumes are very poisonous.

Once cooled your solution should be blue or green in color. Next, add a few grains of common table salt to the liquid in the test tube.

If silver is present, then the table salt will react with the silver nitrate solution and form a cloud or glob of white cottage cheese looking material - this is silver chloride and you can assume the metal is silver. If nothing happens then there is probably no silver.

OR

Once the metal is dissolved, allow it to cool. Add about 2 or 3 ml distilled water (don't add tap water for this test as it contains chlorine and the chlorine will react with the silver nitrate). Then take a long piece of heavy gauge copper wire and insert it into the liquid. If your solution contains silver, it will very quickly begin to form (cement) silver metal on the copper wire that is submerged in the solution. As the silver forms, the wire will appear to grow to twice it's size. If you shake the wire, the silver will fall off to the bottom of the test tube and more silver will begin to form on the wire. If nothing happens, then your metal is probably not silver.

Some precious metals are slightly magenetic and should not be excluded (Hoke).

kadriver


----------



## Harold_V (Dec 17, 2010)

The problem with testing by that method is that one without experience may not be able to discern the difference between plated and solid silver items. In each test, similar results can be expected. I agree that one with experience would easily make the determination by those tests. 

In order to test silver with confidence, a file, nitric acid and Schwerter's solution are pretty much indispensible. By using them in tandem, you can make determinations without dissolving a portion of the item in question, although the testing is be considered destructive. Filing a deep notch in the item is a requirement. 

Harold


----------



## kadriver (Dec 18, 2010)

I have never heard of this chemical:

Schwerter's solution

Is it a test solution that can be made, or must it be ordered?

It sounds very handy in testing silver.

kadriver


----------



## lazersteve (Dec 18, 2010)

Check the Guided Tour Link (General Reactions List) for the details of making it. Several recipes were posted around the forum as well, I have summarized them in the Reaction List along with test result photos.

Steve


----------



## Harold_V (Dec 19, 2010)

kadriver said:


> It sounds very handy in testing silver.


Frankly, it is THE test for silver. It, alone, gives a blood red reaction when applied to silver. When applied to silver plated items, if a notch is filed, it will react with both silver and base metal, yielding a compromise of color. Best thing you can do is make a small batch and place it in a small acid bottle with a dauber. It takes just a tiny drop for a test, so an ounce of solution will last a long time. Become familiar with the reactions by testing known items---pure silver---sterling---coin---plated, etc. Do allow tests to remain for a period. When testing alloyed silver, the off color can be slow to develop, but develop it does!

(Reagent grade nitric, distilled water and potassium dichromate)

Harold


----------



## Irons (Dec 19, 2010)

Here's an inexpensive source for the reagent:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SILVER-Testing-Solution-test-acid-tester-Instructions_W0QQitemZ260525442538QQcategoryZ494QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m8QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5763823382944476871


----------

