# What is this stuff?



## radron33 (Nov 27, 2013)

We made 6K gold from jewelry (gold and silver). Dissolved in Aqua Regia. Spilled it and soaked it up with paper towels rinsed and evaporated solution back down and dropped gold with SMB. And it looks like gold crystals instead of the dirty water look. The gold looking crystals settled to the bottom and the powder looks golden instead of the usual dark brown powder. Picture of solution included. Does anybody know what this is?

Thanks, Ron. ( radron33)

Sorry, my bad. We did dissolved the the base metals of the 6k gold in nitric acid and water first then the AR.
Just forgot to mention it in the original post.


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## artart47 (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi !
You don't disolve the 6k alloy with AR. AR is used to refine the gold after the base metals have been removed.
You mixed the 6k alloy so that you would be able to recover the gold by disolving the silver and any other base metals out of the alloy thus leaving only the gold behind.
The first thing that you need to do is safely put away what you have created and learn the basics of recovery and refining precious metals. Your safety is at risk and your efforts will end in disapointment if you don't understand what you are doing and why yu are doing it. How to do it in a safe manner and how to deal with the wastes that you will be producing.
People here will help you to learn to produce quality precious metals but, you have a lot of work to do before continuing with chemistry.
First! Take the guided tour of the forum
Second! Download a free copy of Hoke's book, offered here on the forum. Read it untill you understand what she is teaching you.
Third! stud the safety section.
Then you can search for member's posts, tutorials and videos that deal with what you are trying to do.

Welcome to the forum and we look forward to seeing your first gold!
artart47


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 27, 2013)

Nothing that I know of is called aqua regina. It's aqua regia. If you're going to be around here, you really should learn the proper terms.


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## radron33 (Nov 27, 2013)

goldsilverpro said:


> Nothing that I know of is called aqua regina. It's aqua regia. If you're going to be around here, you really should learn the proper terms.



Sorry about that auto spell did that. I did not know there were harsh critics here.
If I ever post here again I will check for spelling and grammar errors, so that people can 
Focus on the question and not errors.


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 27, 2013)

Sounds good to me. There are lots of critics on here and you'll find them to be quite stubborn. Correct spelling is one of the basic criteria here, especially when chemicals are concerned. For example, if you type sodium metabisulfate instead of the correct sodium metabisulfite, a rookie might buy the wrong thing and then wonder why his gold didn't drop. Google the definition for aqua regina. I just did and found nothing except from articles written by people that obviously didn't know what they were talking about. Aqua regia means king's water. Regina means queen.


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## niteliteone (Nov 27, 2013)

I wonder how many highly flammable or possible explosive compounds are now in that beaker :shock: :?: 
Most paper towels made contain some cotton fibers, which a little study will quickly show bad things come from mixing the 2 materials :shock: 

What ever you do, *DON'T* add any ammonium to remove the silver chloride that is in your solution, you might not survive to tell us about that mistake :shock:

Cover your beaker and store it in a safe (spill proof) location and READ to learn what to do with this mess


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## butcher (Nov 28, 2013)

radron33,

Yes we are very critical here about spelling and grammar.

We do expect members to do their best to insure what the post is readable. This helps, not only for us to show a more personal professional approach as refiners, but also helps us to be understood by other members, many of which have to translate.

Our spelling mistake may not only make it hard for others to understand what we are saying, but could actually get someone hurt, little things are important, one letter in a word can make a big difference. Especially where you are discussing chemistry, look at these words sulfate, sulfite and sulfide, very different chemicals one of which can produce a very dangerous gas when acidified, if I was discussing a procedure and used the wrong spelling in it, I could hurt someone by using the wrong word or spelling. For these reasons and more we do prompt all readers to do their best to correct spelling and grammar, and do the best they can, not all of us have the ability to get good grades in grammar, or can win a spelling Bee, but we can try our best and use spell check.

radron33, 
We all are working with extremely dangerous chemicals, when you cannot even use the correct word for the chemical your using this leaves one who reads your post to wonder if you know what you are talking about, or if you have studied enough to even know what you are doing and can do it safely, this can make members think they should not tell you something that you may not understand if they spent the time to answer a question, thinking you have not spent enough time to study the basic principles and safety.

We all make spelling mistakes and grammar errors, but we all also should try to put our best foot forward, use spell check programs if we need to, and work to do our best.

I think you can understand this, as long as you do not let your pride get in the way.

I have seen gold precipitate as a gold color metal instead of the smaller brown crystals of gold metal, believe it has something to do with how the gold is reduced.

Precipitation starts out with a gold ion getting back its lost electron, precipitation can actually happen in less than 0.1 second with billions of these gold ions being reduced (gaining electrons) at the same time, into gold atoms, first forming atoms of gold, these atoms clashing and combining to form invisible colloidal gold particles, forming colloids of gold particles as these gold ion change back to gold atoms and these atoms bumping into each and combining with each other forming clusters of gold colloidal particles, taking billions of atoms in one cluster to make one gold colloidal particle, and billions of these colloidal partials floating around in solution bumping into each other colliding and growing to larger colloids, until they grow to a crystal of gold getting large enough to sink to the bottom of the beaker by gravity.

The gold atoms and colloids or crystals are neutral (non polarized) this allows them to combine (crash together and join together to form a bigger particle, to grow as the move around in solution until they are overcome by gravity and sink to the bottom as precipitated gold,

If as these gold atoms forming combine to form colloids, and the conditions in solution make these colloids become polarized (impurity's, tin in solution) as ions attach themselves to these neutral gold atoms forming into colloidal clusters, (these impurity's or even other ions in solution) can attach themselves to these colloidal clusters in the outer shell forming, these other Ions can be polarized, (positive or negative) depending on conditions, let say our colloidal cluster forming begin to get outer shells of positive ions.
Now our gold colloidal clusters will stop growing and will not become larger crystals, because these colloidal particles become polarized by the polarized ions of their outer shell, now these colloids being polarized begin to repel each other (same polarity will not come together forming crystals) millions of these colloidal gold particles pushing each other around in solution not getting bigger, keeping each other in solution, and in motion so that they never grow large enough to precipitate, by forming crystals large enough for gravity to sink them, leaving your gold basically invisible to the eye.
Note light reflection may detect these colloids if large enough to color the solution with the reflected light particles, as in the case of the colors we see in colloidal gold solutions, for example in our test for gold where we purposely make colloidal gold, using a tin chloride solution with our gold solutions forming the purple of Cassius in our test for gold ions in solution.

Also note in this solution of colloidal gold, in which the gold is already reduced, gold particles clusters of gold atoms formed into colloids (and these polarized colloids repelling each other), this means the gold is already reduced to metal, with these gold atoms having all of there missing electrons back, and these colloidal polarized clusters repelling each other. This means that even though we cannot see the gold or the colloids, we also cannot test for the gold in this solution (our stannous chloride test we use, will not work to reduce the gold ion (the gold is already reduced) and will not form gold colloids the size needed to give the reflected purple color (different sizes of colloids reflect light differently giving different colors depending on size), we cannot precipitate the gold, we cannot test for the gold to see where it is, we cannot filter these colloids from solution (they are way too small), basically this is where a good portion of our gold can be lost, with dirty solutions or with tin in solutions of our refining operations.

I have precipitated gold that looked like tiny gold flakes its rare but will happen, it would have to be because of how the gold atoms grew into crystals of combined gold atoms.

I hope this helps, and I also hope you do the best you can with your spelling and grammar, I do the best I can with mine.

PS: An attitude does not go far on this forum, it is one thing that can cause a member to lose his right as a member here, especially one towards a well and respected member like GSP, and a disrespectful attitude towards one of the moderators.
I think you will find this forum a great place to learn from, and make good friends on, if this is what you enjoy, it would be a shame to mess that up over a little pride on being asked to spell the acid we use the best you can.


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## Harold_V (Nov 28, 2013)

radron33 said:


> Sorry about that auto spell did that. I did not know there were harsh critics here.


I'm worse than harsh, and not very understanding when I observe anyone with an attitude. If you want to get my attention, use the contraction of the two words et cetera, and spell it ect.

We demand proper English here, and will allow only those who don't use English as a first language any slack. There's too much to risk by being slovenly in one's posting. We already struggle considerably from all the fools that have posted misinformation on the internet, so we certainly aren't going to encourage anything like that here. 

Also, if you hadn't picked up on the idea, don't use texting lingo on this board. I'll ban a guy in a heart-beat if he doesn't observe that rule. Plain and simple, I expect more respect from those with which I share what little I know than to have them speak to me (and all readers) as if they are nothing short of morons. Many of us here are sharing knowledge that was hard won--and we ask nothing in return (although respect is expected). 



> If I ever post here again I will check for spelling and grammar errors, so that people can Focus on the question and not errors.



Good for you. Now you understand. 

By the way, if you have the least bit of interest in learning to refine, you'll either read here, or read and post. You'll come to a point in your venture when other sources simply won't be able to provide the type of guidance you may require. 

It's very easy to get along on this board. Simply observe all the rules. That, of course, becomes impossible with the wrong mindset.

Harold


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## butcher (Nov 28, 2013)

This is why we love Harold the bulldog and protector of the forum; He not only helps us to learn this very valuable art and skill, but also helps to keep our forum the best place to learn.


Harold is a value asset and friend to me, and the forum, he has shared an awful lot of his valuable information to help me and others learn this skill, (without him and GSP), it is doubtful that many of us would ever had a chance to learn refining, these professionals willing to share their hard won knowledge, to the common hobbyist wishing to learn, I still remember well my first posts, and the scolding from the ole bulldog, and my scolding was over my terrible grammar, and my terrible writing skills, well that scolding hurt, but it also helped me to work hard to improve my self and my skills, not only in refining but in communicating with others through writing on this forum, I still need improvement, but thanks to Harold, my skills in writing have improved, which has helped me in many aspects of my life...

Harold thanks for being there when we need you, sometimes we need a good friend to tell us when we are on the wrong path and to help lead us in a better direction.


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