# Iodine solution questions



## Oz (Apr 17, 2008)

I have been trying to wrap my head around iodine and it seems that there is much contradictory info out there. I want to experiment with putting gold into solution from the black sands I have saved over the years from panning for gold, as well as some scrap precious metals. 

I had wanted to start with just trying to change the iodine between an elemental/oxidized state and its reduced form with chlorine bleach and sodium hydroxide to see if I could manipulate it. Before investing the money for iodine crystals I tried precipitating a small amount out of a 2% tincture with limited success. I used 2 ounces of 2% USP iodine and tried to drop it out of solution by adding equal parts of distilled water. Since that did not work I assume that they must have added some sodium or potassium to the tincture to make it miscible with water.

Next I tried 2 ounces of 2% USP iodine and added ¼ cup hydrogen peroxide and a half ounce of muriatic acid. It got immediately dark and then started to precipitate an almost black fluffy material. Unexpectedly though it was too great a volume of dark precipitate for the amount of iodine I had started with, and was light enough to be lifted to the top by the ?hydrogen? bubbles. When nothing else was being precipitated I filtered it anyhow and washed it with distilled water 2 times. I then added a sodium hydroxide solution (lye) and it rapidly became crystal clear. 

Questions;
Is the washed black precipitate that I dissolved in sodium hydroxide and distilled water indeed crystallized iodine?

If I add chlorine it should go red/brown, if excess chlorine will it cause the iodine to re-crystallize out of solution?

Am I understanding terminology correctly that elemental/oxidized state is liquid and reduced is solid (crystals)?

Are there 2 states in a liquid? I had read that I should keep it red/brown in solution when dissolving gold but when ready to precipitate the gold out to take it to clear with a sodium hydroxide aqueous solution. At that point I should get a fine black gold powder settling.

Thank you very much for your time.


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## OMG (Apr 17, 2008)

Check your iodine, I think "tincture of iodine" has some kind of alcohol in it. Maybe that is causing trouble? Other sources of iodine don't use alcohols.
I only know a little about iodine. One thing is that if you make iodine compounds (with metals, etc) and put in free chlorine, the chlorine will take up those metals to make chlorides and will kick out free iodine (I2 the solid).
mI2 + Cl2 -> mCl2 + I2
(where m is the metal)

In my opinion, I think that black powder would be iodine (I2). You might be just over estimating how much powder is actually there. For example, a big pile of powder (say gold) melts down to only make a tiny little button of solid gold. Also.. there isn't much else the dark powder could be.

With fresh tincture of iodine, I would just try adding a bit of hcl and bleach to generate free chlorine, which should break up the sodium iodide and form sodium chloride and free iodine.
actually I will try it myself. I have some tincture of iodine I think.


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## OMG (Apr 17, 2008)

Oh, and you should search wikipedia for all those things.
iodine
sodium iodide
tincture of iodine
It will help alot.


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## Oz (Apr 17, 2008)

OMG,

I hope you do try and post your results! The easy way would be for me to just buy crystals online but I think it is better to learn to manipulate it like this first, then starting with lab grade crystals until I understand it. Then I can eliminate a lot of problems that I may have once precious metals are involved.

I had done a bit of looking and had the same impression as you that an “iodine tincture” was iodine dissolved in an alcohol. That is why I tried mixing with equal parts of distilled water, my rational being that iodine will not dissolve in water. Since it did not work, I did some more research and found out that sometimes sodium or potassium is added to allow it to dissolve so thought that may be the case with my tincture.

You have a very good point on the volume of black precipitate (from hydrogen peroxide/hydrochloric acid reaction) I had as it was very finely divided, did not dissolve in water washes, and went rapidly into solution with sodium hydroxide. It was cool enough that there was no sublime reaction (I believe that it starts to sublime at 68* F).

You suggest “With fresh tincture of iodine, I would just try adding a bit of hcl and bleach to generate free chlorine, which should break up the sodium iodide and form sodium chloride and free iodine”. By free iodine do you mean I2 with the sodium chloride staying in solution?


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## OMG (Apr 17, 2008)

yep. I2 the solid (at room temp). The chlorine will steal the sodium and make sodium chloride (table salt). Or it would steal the potassium in the case of potassium iodide. And both NaCl and KCl are soluble in water.
When you added sodium hydroxide, the iodine would have stole the sodium from the hydroxide and made sodium iodide (and some sodium iodate and water). NaI is soluble in water, so thats why it cleared up.

btw, I believe Big Brother U.S.A. watches for large purchases of iodine, they say its because it is a chemical you can use to make meth.


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## Palladium (Apr 17, 2008)

What about bromide and chlorine.


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## OMG (Apr 17, 2008)

Ya, bromines strength lies right between chlorine and iodine. I've been experimenting with it a bit. I would like it better if stayed as a liquid and didn't emit that stank. I figure using a liquid to dissolve gold (and other metals) would be way better than using a solid or a gas. (iodine and chlorine respectively)
But, I also heard that Iodine is more selective for gold than the others. I'm not sure why that would be.


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## Palladium (Apr 17, 2008)

OMG :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=19690#19690


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## Oz (Apr 17, 2008)

OMG,

I found out the fed regulation issue with a Google search on iodine, and apparently they are even watching for people buying more than one 2oz. bottle at the drug store. I don’t get it since it can be bought online so easily already in crystalline form. 

I follow your reaction up to the addition of the hydrochloric acid. What is its function in the reaction?


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## OMG (Apr 18, 2008)

I was just saying to use hcl and bleach to make free chlorine. But maybe you only need bleach. If I get time ill try it this weekend.


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## OMG (Apr 19, 2008)

I put tincture of iodine and bleach together.
It just separated itself with the iodine and ethanol on top and the bleach on the bottom. So i guess the tincture of iodine is just I2 in ethanol. So you'd have to find a way to get rid of the ethanol to make it pure iodine. (possibly heating it???)
I continued and added hcl to try to make free chlorine, but it didn't produce any chlorine at all, it just made the iodine clear.
I think some hydrogen iodide might have formed because it gave of a slight smell of something I haven't smelt before.
Then I added some sodium hydroxide to neutralize the hcl.
And then I added some hydrogen peroxide.
The reaction is still going (I'm just in for a coffee), but the solution is turning dark again, so the iodine must be coming back out.


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## Oz (Apr 20, 2008)

It would be tough to evaporate out the alcohol without loosing the iodine. You would need to keep it under 68* so you didn’t loose the iodine to the atmosphere as well.

It is sounding like you are getting similar results as I did with the hydrogen peroxide/hydrochloric acid. Your results may be a bit different than mine since you used sodium hydroxide to neutralize your hcl and I don’t know if you still had bleach mixed in. I’m glad to have someone interested in this that has a better chemistry background than I do. I look forward to hearing the conclusion of your test! 

Thanks again for your interest and input.


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## OMG (Apr 20, 2008)

I heated the test jar a bit (in a bath of water) and the solution turned brown and had bit of a shimmer on the surface. The brown was probably the iodine, but I think I lost about 1/2 of it because it was pretty pale brown.
I read a classroom chemistry thing on the internet and it said that you 'can' precipitate dissolved iodine (as in NaI, or KI) with just bleach. But I think the iodine in the tincture of iodine is pure iodine already (not NaI or KI) they just dissolve it in ethanol.
So if I were you I'd look into getting some iodine crystals or sodium iodide or potassium iodide and stay away from the ethanol.


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## Oz (Apr 28, 2008)

Sorry I kinda dropped off the map, life gets crazy and this is hobby. Thanks for all of your input, and I agree it would be easier (and cheaper) to just buy crystals but this was for learning to work with it before adding gold to complicate things. As a side note, I had a few containers of different iodine solutions with loose fitting lids in an area that got up to about 80* F and the lids and walls now have a dark brown/red precipitate on them. I’m guessing that since iodine sublimes at 60* F that that is what happened. I might try making up an inverted “U” tube out of glass with one end fitted to the top of a stoppered bottle 3/4 full of an iodine solution, and the other end submerged into a beaker of water. 

The iodine should evaporate before anything else found in a tincture of iodine and I could just rinse out the tube with a small amount of chlorine or sodium hydroxide solution periodically to claim the iodine. If there is excessive heat or evaporation it would show in the beaker as red and could be returned to the beaker for a repeat evaporation.

This would also be handy for reclaiming iodine from the leach process if I take it that far. Enough iodine for any decent quantity of gold would be costly enough that I wouldn’t want to loose any I don’t have to.

I need to get the glass and form it but will post my results if you still have an interest.


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## OrygunSunset (May 21, 2008)

Let me start by stating that I am not a Chemist - But I am studying to work in Medicine.

I started researching Iodine last fall - Probably 150 hours just on Iodine.


Iodine is the Heaviest Halogen that has the highest melting and boiling points and is the least electronegative ( beside Astine which is ultra rare) 

Your body has to have Iodine and Chlorine for metabolic processes and you cannot live with out either one. 

Fluorine and Bromine - You can ive without.

Since Iodine is the Heaviest it is displaced from the Human body by the lighter Halogens Br, Cl and Fl respectively. 

The receptors on the Thyroid get filled and displace Iodine with lighter Halogens.

I know that we get Iodine from Iodized salt - which is kind of a silly vehicle if you think about it from a Chemical perspective.

NaCl delivers I Cl on a mole level has 30,000 atoms for every one Iodine atom. As well Cl competes for absorpotion in the GI track.

Yet the human body is much like a Car engine - which any mechanic can attest that it can run under a wide range of conditions. The Human body is the same and it recycles what it can of Iodine, we get just enough to stop us from getting goiters and having our offspring develop as cretins with retardation. Areas of the US that used to be goiter belts The Great lakes, the Missoula flood plains, anywhere the topsoil was striped by glaciers. 


Iodine has key roles in every thing from your immune system to componets of your tears, saliva, semen , vaginal fluids, mucous and mucus membranes. It plays a key role in Apoptosis of mutant cells ( bad DNA transcription - sometimes cancerous cells) It is critical to heart beat, muscle contraction. Dry mouth, cold feet, chilled, brain fogs, fatigue, lethargy can all be due to a lack of Iodine. 

One key role that Iodine plays for what we do in refining Gold and PM is that it Chelates the Heavy metals, Mercury, Lead, etc Aiding in removal from our bodies.

I could go on and on. Funny thing is that the Pharmaceuticals can't patent an Element.

By the way in the 1930's a Pharmaceutical company bought a medical iodine solution and filed it away.


In my studies, I now ask why we put Mercury in fillings, and brush and seal our teeth with a toxin that is only slightly less toxic than Arsenic. 

Sodium fluoride (NaF) and sodium fluosilicate (Na2SiF6) area "general protoplasmic poison." When present as a soluble salt, it is readily absorbed from the alimentary tract. A 2 per cent solution of sodium fluoride kills mucosal cells, and its ingestion leads to a severe hemorrhagic gastroenteritis; in part this corrosiveness is due to a toxic action on mucosal capillaries and is seen even after parenteral administration. Hydrofluoric acid is corrosive even on intact skin, where it causes painful penetrating ulcers which heal slowly.
The systemic actions of fluoride are presumably related to the inhibition of one or more enzymes controlling cellular glycolysis (and perhaps respiration) and to the binding or precipitation of calcium as CaF2. (from a manual on Clinical Toxicology of Commercial Products) 

Their is enough SF in a 1/2 tube of toothpaste to kill a small child (Funny No poison labels or skull and crossbones ) It is much more lethal than lead. 

Since 1945 we have been attacking cavities with fluoride, this is like Chemo for cavities - The difference in cavities in populations with Fl in the water and not is about one cavity. Both with and with out regular dental visits.

Fluoride is slightly less toxic than Cyanide.

[\RANT OFF] I could go on and on, but I will not. Yes the Feds as of Aug 07, Iodine is a controlled items large purposes with need are tracked.

I have been supplementing with Iodine since last November, first with a tablet and then with Lugols Solution Orally or I will paint the bottom of one foot ( I alternate then take about 4-5 days break 4-5 days on 4-5 days off, by the way if you have fungus problem or yellow brittle toenails, paint them with Tincture of Iodine is one thing that I have read - none of this is meant at medical advise. 

Your body only absorbs the Iodine that it needs, when take orally excess Iodine pass in your urine. The Japanese people Iodine intake is 13,000 that of our RDA/RDI. They rank in the top 1-2 in longevity among the the industrialized world. I could go on.


My point if your looking to buy Iodine vis-a-via Lugols Solution which is 5% I /10% KI.

I was able to buy 2 16oz bottles of Lugols Strong Iodine Solutionfrom Wal-mart for about $34 each - Special order - I talked with the Pharmacist. Without reason need- you are limited to 1oz of Lugols Strong solution and from JCrows it is about $28 + shipping.

I special ordered lugol's solution from Wal-Mart pharmacy. The price was $28 & tax for 1 pint. Since it seems like people are having a hard time finding it I will try giving you the brand. It is Humco, Strong Iodine Solution, Quality Rx Prescription, Lugol's Solution. It contains 5% iodine, 10% pot. io-dide, pur. water. Says can be used internally.


Walgreens, and other Pharmacies have the Tincture of Iodine - I am unsure of the alcohol base I have heard wood alcohol or methanol, I have no proof. 

I know that Rite Aid - carries a decolorized Iodine - they add ammonia to decolonize it, but add some H202 (3% HYDROGEN PEROXIDE) it will bring the color right back or if you add a few drops of I2 to water and add a capful of H202 it will cause the color to disappear.


I am unsure of what chemical reaction is taking place. 

For the Chemist on the board: I ask if my chemistry is sound and logical. This was what won me over was the common sense and no super duper wonder product being hyped just a lowly element and about 70 Doctors and Private researchers. 

The Iodine supplementation is only an extra line of protection to the extra chemicals that the general public isn't knowingly exposed to.

I will also post under Safety for others consideration. @ Mods if this is out of line please let me know. 

Btw I have learned more in a short time here, the access to the digital Library, and the excellent GRFH VOl 1 is an excellent primer - I have'nt had a chance to dig in to Hoke yet, I have a ton of info, I am taking a Metal working class and a Blacksmithing class at my local community college to broaden my knowledge, I think that I might look into some advanced Chem classes this summer, it is easier to think outside the box and tackle a problem with more foundation.


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## turbo (Jan 5, 2009)

Hi Guy's it's me again.  

Iodine is also used in methamphetamine Production.

I looked up the proces that is used to extract the iodine from the ethanol (2 or 7% tincture.)

I have tried the methode and it works, i left the bottle in the cooler overnight and when i opend it this morning there was there were the pure iodine crystals, they were beutiful metallic like dark aluminium.
The crystals do vaporate very quickly so make sure to store them right.

Here is the procedure:

Iodine Crystals. Take one 20 oz, plastic Coke Bottle and pour 4 Bottles 2% tincture into it.

Add Hydrogen Peroxide to this. Use only 1/2 a bottle of Hydrogen peroxide. After this you know, the gallon jug that the Muriatic acid comes in take the cap off and fill this cap level with the acid. Add the acid to the coke bottle (Place in a freezer for at least 30 mins).

Get a clean mason jar on top of this place 1 coffee filter and pour the contents of the iodine +muriatic+Hydrogen Peroxide into the filter ( do it slowly don't over pour) well once you get though with the filtering on top of the coffee filter will be a black substance ( This is iodine crystals) dry them by wraping in more coffee filters till you get a pretty good thick pile around the original filter place on ground and step on it to get the rest of the liquids off.

Turbo.


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## butcher (Jan 5, 2009)

Turbo, you say bottles full, can we get that in ounces or milliliters?


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## turbo (Jan 6, 2009)

Hi butcher 

Over here they sell in bottles of 250 Milliliter and they are qute expensive. 10 euro a bottle.

But then again if it's possible to reuse the idoine over and over again it becomes incredible cheap.

So im first going to use it on the grinded flatpacks to see if it works well.

Turbo.


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## Lou (Jan 6, 2009)

You need to purchase sodium or potassium iodide. Both are relatively cheap. Iodine is easily made from an aqueous solution of that salt to which dilute sulfuric acid has been added. After the solution is acidic, add hydrogen peroxide and your iodine will precipitate out in high yield. This can be filtered off from the solution, rinsed with ice cold distilled water, blotted out, and then sublimed.



Lou


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## butcher (Jan 6, 2009)

Lou when you say subimed this sounds like vaporizing iodine and condensing the gas, is this correct?

I have heard that Iodine can be seperated from gold by electrolytic cell, gold to cathode and iodine to anode,

did concider using an iodine leach once but, I have no expierience to referene to it. and keeping Ph >8 seems very important so pyrites arent disolved as much,
did you see this http://www.prospectorsparadise.com/html/leaching.html


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