# What do you think about this?



## nickmarch (May 27, 2009)

eBay Item Number 250430553836

4 Bars @ 55.3 total troy oz

Have you ever heard of Jayco refinery?

Would you risk bidding?


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## EDI Refining (May 27, 2009)

Off Topic - sorry

GoldrushGang.com - these type of website seem to be popping up like theres no tomorrow


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## Lou (May 27, 2009)

Ask him for the measurements on the individual bars, bear in mind that it's a nominal measurement because they appear to be trapezoidal in cross-section . Look about the right size, but not the right color. Also, I wonder on the contraction on the back...

It's simple enough to do a displacement test to get the volume, and from that the density. Anything over 17 would make me strongly believe it is gold.


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## dick b (May 28, 2009)

I'm not sure if they are real. But if they were mine, I would have taken them to a Jeweler and paid to have them appraised. 
If they are real fine gold they could be worth around $50,000.00. 
I can't imagine putting them on ebay without knowing for sure if they a real, unless he knows they are fake and is trying to make a fat killing.
Somebody is going to be surprised, just wish I knew if it was for the good or bad!


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## nicknitro (May 28, 2009)

The Bars Say JetCo not JayCo. They have an Ebay Store specializing in copper bullion bars. 

Spray some copper bars gold color after stamping them fine gold, doesn't seem to far fetched does it.

Maybe, if they were bought a while ago, is all I would hope for. With maybe gold selling at 250-300 an ounce. Then they switched to copper for cost purposes.

I and I'm sure others would be interested in the outcome. Either way.

Nick


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## nicknitro (May 28, 2009)

Wait, 

I can save you the time and frustration.

Check out this Ebay auction. 380114191375 They sell the "Unique" Gold Paperwight for $12.95 Pretty pricey for bronze.


Sorry, 
Nick


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## markqf1 (May 28, 2009)

Hey Lou,
Sounds like you have heard of a Greek guy named Archimedes.
Displacement and therefore density, can tell you an awful lot about them.
If you don't have them in your hand, you will still have to take his word as to the measurements.

Mark


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## goldsilverpro (May 28, 2009)

The photos are such that the dimensions of the bars are fairly measurable - I used an architect's rule that measures in decimals. The ruler in the photo helps. After correcting the measurements with the ruler (on my screen, the 6" ruler measures 3.8"), here's what I came up with. 

Bottom width - 1.437"
Top width - .995"
Bottom length - 3.00"
Top length - 2.526"
Thickness - .75"

The average width is (1.437 + .995)/2 = 1.216"
The average length is (3 + 2.526)/2 = 2.763"

The volume for 1 bar is 1.216 x 2.763 x .75 = 2.52 cu.in. = 41.33 cc
The volume of 4 bars is 165.3 cc
The weight of 4 bars is 55.3 tr.oz. = 55.3 x 31.1 = 1720 grams

The S.G. = 1720/165.3 = 10.4
This calculation does not consider the depression on the bottom of the bar.

For some reason, I can't get the Ebay listing again in order to re-check my measurements and more closely examine the markings and the depression. If I properly did the measurements and calculations, what metal would these be made of? It is surely not gold. The S.G. of silver is 10.5. I have seen these paperweight replica bars made of gold-plated silver, gold-plated copper base, and gold-plated lead base. I have seen more lead base than any other type.

I would guess the bars are gold-plated silver or lead - probably lead. It could be some weird worthless alloy that I haven't considered. With the depression, the actual S.G. could easily be closer to lead - 11.3 - very possible.

Maybe the guy removed the auction and that's why I can't get it. Maybe someone suggested that he file into a bar and he discovered it was silver (or, most probably, lead).

My final guess is that the bars are made of lead.


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## g_axelsson (May 28, 2009)

Someone must have reported him, his account has been terminated.
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=cilbarnesmiller541&ftab=AllFeedback

I'm impressed by the fast handling, normally Ebay ignores any reports it get for counterfeit goods but now it might have been so obvious that they had to do something.

/Göran


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## goldsilverpro (May 28, 2009)

I guess I should have read all the posts before I wasted all that time. However, I kind of enjoy trying to figure those things out. Looks like I was right about the lead, though.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Unique-Gold-Brick-Paperweight-Bar-Ingot_W0QQitemZ380114191375QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_Bullion?hash=item588092440f&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A30


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## dick b (May 28, 2009)

That was what I thought too. (Plated Lead)

I figured the bars to be 1"w x 3"l x .5'd and thought that 14 ozt was not too far off in weight to size, but was unsure how easy it would be to plate lead since gold is absorbed in lead.

What really caught my attention though was the custom stamps. Jayco was not hand stamped because all the impressions were identical and the words fine and gold were custom stamps too. 

The other thing I noticed was the color seemed off, fine gold would not of been that dark.

I just didn't seem that someone trying to run a scam would go to that expense to try and fool the buyer.

I'm cautious though, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!


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## goldsilverpro (May 28, 2009)

It looks like these aren't even gold plated. According to the link I gave, they are painted.


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## dick b (May 28, 2009)

Chris:

I didn't look at the link that you gave. 

I was looking at the ebay link that was first posted in the thread.

Now after looking at your link, it looks like the poster bought four of those bars and was trying to fool the buyer into buying them as gold.

Not much doubt of the scam now. When I tabbed the link on ebay the were bid up to $510.00. 

That would have hurt spending that kind of money for lead!


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## Anonymous (May 28, 2009)

g_axelsson said:


> Someone must have reported him, his account has been terminated.
> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=cilbarnesmiller541&ftab=AllFeedback
> 
> I'm impressed by the fast handling, normally Ebay ignores any reports it get for counterfeit goods but now it might have been so obvious that they had to do something.
> ...



Yes I to am impressed with how quickly ebay handled the fraud, less than 2 hours from the time I hit the report this auction link at the bottom of the ad.

Could not stand the thought of someones kids going hungry over a bad investment buying lead at $510.00 possibly more with 5 days left on the auction. Barnum and Baily had it right a fool born every minute.


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## oldtimmer (May 28, 2009)

If that one was no good, how about this one? It at least looks a little be better:

137 grams. PURE 14K SOLID BULLION BAR SCRAP GOLD INGOT

Ebay link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/137-grams-PURE-14K-SOLID-BULLION-BAR-SCRAP-GOLD-INGOT_W0QQitemZ300317487399QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_Bullion?hash=item45ec513127


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## goldsilverpro (May 28, 2009)

It almost looks too perfect. Maybe it was polished.


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## Oz (May 29, 2009)

Agreed, it looks way golden for 14K.

I'm just trying to remember what it is that happens every minute...


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## Anonymous (May 29, 2009)

If my opinion counts, I saved a picture locally then exploded the view of a 14k ring he is selling then another of the 14k ingot to compare the output of his digital camera. The ingot appears to be slightly darker by maybe 1%.

I did note layering on the side of the ingot indicating cooling was rather rapid.


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## nicknitro (May 31, 2009)

Sorry Guys,

I reported him. I felt he was trying to get money for false hope. Especially with the reference to Jayco, not Jetco Refinery.

My question is, for the second auction mentioned here. The 14K bullion bar. Wouldn't the cost be very near spot for this auction. I reallize the seller is probably loseing money with EBAY fees at 12% a little less for him "PowerSeller". What would you expect for a profit from this auction? Less chemicals, of course, and would you include start-up cost if you needed to purchase say silver for inquartation? 

Thanks for your help.
Trying to rationalize a purchase like this.

Nick


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