# Rhodium ore



## Shecker

I have access to some of the richest rhodium ore on earth. I have 300 pounds of this material at my house right now and can get tons more. This material comes from the South American "platina belt" and is material the Spanish tried to smelt and couldn't do it. Finally they abandoned millions of tons of this material, leaving it for someone with better metallurgical knowledge. In time it was forgotten. How I am getting this material is my secret.

I have decided to offer small amounts of this material t anyone on the forums who wishes to extract rhodium. This material yields a bright green solution with everything I have tried, but straight HCl seems to work the best. This stuff comes in pieces that weigh as much as 20 pounds. I have no means right now to crush this stuff and it has a tendency to flatten before it breaks.

Here is the deal. I have access to far more of this material than I can ever use. After due consideration I have decided to share with others on the forum. But I am not giving it away. What I am asking is 50% of what you receive for processing. You cover the costs of extraction and I cover the costs of shipping. If you think this is far please let me know by emailing me at [email protected] I will send pictures of this material and initial samples to all of those interested.

But remember this -- rhodium is carcinogenic and requires proper fume control.

I will also be running my own material and producing rhodium metal. It starts out red like copper, but is much heavier, and turns gray on drying.
I extract it with just HCl and use iron as a reducing agent. I currently have about 20 ounces of this -- but I have pounds of the yellow alkaline chloride of rhodium. This is made by adding ammonium hydroxide to the HCl solution until a deep blue solution is reached. This occurs at about a pH of 10 to 12. A small addition of HCl drops the pH to about 8 and the yellow rhodium chloride precipitates out. As they say there is more than one way to skin a cat, although getting the cat to hold still must be a real problem.

Please do not ask for a sample of this unless series about doing something with it. Right now my money is very low and shipping costs money. But I will ship a sample to anyone who is series.

Randy in Gunnison


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## Lino1406

Did same with hot water?


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## Shecker

This is completely different from the other material I work on. The other material is near Gunnison, CO. This material comes from South America.

Randy in Gunnison


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## Lino1406

I asked if the same ore that gives "green
with everything", does same also with
hot water?


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## Shecker

This particular material does nothing with hot water. I wish it did. Things would be a lot simpler. But I can tell you this -- a chlorox solution will produce canary yellow ptcl(2). That alone is highly profitable. An HCl solution comes out lime green and yields a great deal of rhodium and ruthenium. I am going to try a bisulphate fusion to see what it produces. A solution of HCL -Cl produces both platinum, rhodium, and ruthenium. Agua Regia would do the same.

Randy in Gunnison


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## Lou

Chlorox won't give you PtCl2 no matter what the nature of the ore is. PtCl2 is not an easy one to make from aqueous solutions Randy. Also, PtCl2 looks like rust; it's not canary yellow regardless of pH. Likewise, you won't be having any alkaline rhodium chlorides. If you think you have rhodium, add some HCl to it and then tell me the colour. I've seen lots of RhCl3 in my time, and many, many, many other PGM compounds and complexes. 

I wish I had access to really nice camera equipment so that I could take photos of all the commonly encountered PGM salts so that people on this forum could see what they really look like in their pure state and not get excited over different colours of solutions.

I can see you dissolving some Ru and Os with hypochlorite, but I _highly doubt_ you're getting platinum out it, or rhodium.


I have a book that I suggest you read. It is by Cotton and Wilkinson, two excellent chemists that I wish were still around. It will teach you wonders about coordination chemistry of the PGMs. Get the 5th Edition.

Advanced Inorganic Chemistry
Hardcover: 1488 pages
Publisher: John Wiley & Sons Inc; 5th edition (March 1988)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0471849979

This book will help you understand why you're being fooled by other transition metals and how the PGMs really behave. It can also give some insight into how you might treat your ore if you knew what was really in it (meaning you have a real assay done by professionals, again try Ledoux).

My point is that PGMs are quite rare. Your ore may have them present, but it won't be in an easily extractable matrix nor in a form that you can just hit with sulfuric or nitric or HCl even. You won't find the PGMs forming salts (like halides, i.e. chlorides/bromides) which are soluble and amenable to wet chem extraction because those salts are *UNSTABLE* and unlikely to survive the heat and pressure involved in their being thrust from the mantle to the crust and our own familiar terra firma. More likely you'll find Pt as an intermetallic with elements it likes-usually metalloids like As, Te, Se, Ge but maybe C and S.


I'm not saying that your ore is barren, it just sounds like you're extracting iron and copper and other first row d-block transition metals.


Just my thoughts.



Lou


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## arthur kierski

i am in accord with lous remarks----i did not write before because i did not want to destroy mr randi dreams---but i made remarks with 2members of this forum which i exchange information with----i do not say that this ore does not have pgm, but never in these astronomic quantities that shecter told in his thread----20 ounces of rhodium is today 200thousand dollars----


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## Shecker

I refer you the recent article on the South "America platina belt in the International California Mining Journal. The author (whose name I cannot recall at the moment) lists these levels of pgm's from historical records.
This is where Devil Metals were first discovered and first produced.

Randy in Gunnison


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## markqf1

Ahh, It's worth taking a look to see.
He's not trying to sell it to anyone.
Sure, it sounds astronomical and unbelieveable, but it can be proved true or false, ... right?

Mark


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## markqf1

Shecker,
A link to that article would be great.
As I'm sure you know, a standard fire assay with lead as a collecter will not represent the rh values correctly.
If your going to have an assay done, be sure that the company you are dealing with, is very familar with the characteristics of pgm's.

Mark


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## Shecker

Just Google on "California Mining Journal".

Randy in Gunnison


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## Shecker

It was the June, 2008 issue, not the current July, 2008 issue.

Randy in Gunnison


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## Shecker

If I told all of you who is running car loads of this material as fast as they can get it there would be no argument over what I am saying, but I am not going to do. I have my secrets as well.

Randy in Gunnison


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## markqf1

Pgm's and secrets seem to have gone hand in hand over time.

Mark


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## Froggy

I have one of the most experienced pgm labs right here in my backyard, Send me a pm and I will have your ore looked at, and if it holds any value, I can have it all proccessed with a small plasma arc furnace (best &safest recovery available), But I have to warn you , if your bullshitting me , I do not take kindly to anyone wasting my time, and thats a fact........Frog


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## Shecker

Pgm's and secrets do go hand in hand. I have very open on this. All I am seeking to do is help some forum members who need the help. The only thing I am keeping to my self is how I know of it and where I am getting it.
Beyond that I will share information as much as I am able to do.

Randy in Gunnison


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## Shecker

A person that I cannot name (but there NO higher authority anywhere) recently told me that I have more of this I can ever run -- why not share it with those who can do something with and improve the circumstance of these times. That was my intention and it still my intention. I believe in helping ours. This is one of the core elements of my life. If you wish a sample I will send. But other than the fact that what is in it (although not the exact amounts) I claim nothing about it. If you don't want any you don't get any.

Randy in Gunnison


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## markqf1

Sounds plenty fair to me!

Mark


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## Shecker

Testing has shown that this material contains a great deal of gelatin. The Spanish use to smelt with animal parts, particularly the blood of cows. For those of you want a source this is right out of De Re Metallica. This confirms that the point of origin was the Spanish in South America and that this came from the old platina belt._ 

Randy in Gunnison_[/quote]


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## Froggy

I still havnt recieved my chunck for testing?


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## cerise

Have you sent any out yet.I'm working on Fume control.This would be a nice thing to try out the new fume hood .By the way does any one know where i can get a vac pump for pulling air out of the fume box and pushing that air through scrubbers?


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## Shecker

Thus far I have been seeing some gold and a goodly amount of platinum. True to form the rhodium is probably going to require a fusion with sodium bisulphate.

Randy in Gunnison


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## ivanchrist

I am newbie from Indonesia.  

I do small research on black sand containing rhodium.
I'd like to share the technique which i know so far..

1. Crush the ore until 400-800mesh
2. Roasting the ore until 500oc for about 2-3hours
3. let it cool and soak it into HF+Nitric Acid to get rid off any SiO2 and heat it up for 2-3hours
4. Heat it up untill dry. then adding Aqua Regia, heat it up for 2-3hours to dilute Au, Pt, Pd
5. Siphon the liquor and separate the residue from the Aqua Regia leaching. (the residue might contain Rh, Ir, Os)
6. Process the mother liquor with sodium metabisulfite for Au, salmiac for Pt, sodium chlorate for Pd. (remove the nitric first by heating)
7. Process the residue with sulfuric acid. heat it up for 2-3hours.
8. Dilute the sulfuric acid with lots of water before siphoning. (4water : 1 sulfuric acid)
9. After siphoning, process the sulfuric acid with tin or iron. (pH 1)
10. i get black powder.

and that's all i know.. i am still working it/the black powder out to get pure rhodium. Am i making a mistake on above technique? :?: 

The black sand is SiO2 sand with lots of Fe and 5% rhodium.(reports from local metallurgy lab)
I tested it using steve method for rhodium and it is positive.  

Any advice will be regarded. I need help on making pure rhodium.


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## Lino1406

should be 9-10hrs, and
NaCl added.
Alternative: melt with NaHSO4


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## Shecker

My approach to black sand is very different. First you need to know if the pm's are physical mixed within the black sands, or structurally intermixed within the black sands. The first is an ionic bonding problem, the second is a chemical dissolution problem. Wet magnetite carries a very powerful surface ionic bond when wet. It is capable of holding fine pm's with incredible tenacity until the bond is broken. Thorough drying breaks the bond, yet most resources advocate processing black sands when wet. Pm's that inter grown with magnetite will require a different approach. Don't use HF. The stuff is a nightmare. Just as a thought try something that I came up within several years ago. Fuse your black sand with an equal amount of copper carbonate (or even sulfate) for about an hour over a camp fire.
This breaks the magnetite down and creates a copper/pm fraction that is a whole lot easier to manage. When cooled the balance of the magnetite can be magnetically separated and should contain little in the way of pm's. I developed this when I had access to a lot of copper carbonates ores and too much time on my hands.

Randy in Gunnison


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## ivanchrist

Thanks for lino and shecker.  

I cant get any sodium bisulfate in Indonesia. importing chemical stuff is very restricted.
I am still looking for substitution for NaHSO4 or might want to produce it.
I read a post in wikipedia about producing NaHSO4. 
NaCL + H2SO4 = NaHSO4 + HCL or
NaOH + H2SO4 = NaHSO4 + H2O... :?: 
sounds impossible to produce, am i right?

And i dont know about "... the pm's are physical mixed within the black sands, or structurally intermixed within the black sands..."
sorry,i am really new guy in this field.

"...Wet magnetite carries a very powerful surface ionic bond when wet. It is capable of holding fine pm's with incredible tenacity until the bond is broken. Thorough drying breaks the bond, yet most resources advocate processing black sands when wet. Pm's that inter grown with magnetite will require a different approach..." and what does it mean? :?: 

Roasting at 500oC for 12hours will break/open up the sulfide, wont it?
i just read the procedure and follow it....that's all i know..


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## Shecker

I will endeavor to answer your questions. I use to roast sulfides over a campfire. They volatilize at fairly low temperature. For drying magnetite I would put it in the sun and stir it every now and then. Once the ionic bond is broken by thorough drying and magnetite can be removed by magnetic separation. Let me illustrate: I have a friend who was considering developing a placer on a river in the western US. He gave me a sample of the black sands and asked that I chemically separate the pm's. I dried the sample and the pm's separated cleanly from the magnetite.

In the case of intergrown pm's within magnetite fine grinding and acid digestion would work nicely. If dealing with just gold try HCl and H2O2.
If dealing with platinum group metals try HCl and Cl (directions are available on the forum). There will always be some dissolution of iron and perhaps some precipitation on the iron oxide (I never found this to be a problem).
Another approach is flotation. I use to have a black sands that was intergrown with gold and pgm's. Fine grinding and flotation using a xanthan collector and Dowfroth 250 produced a clean separation of the pgm's.

Another thought would be a hydroxide fusion. You can make all the potassium hydroxide you will ever need from wood pulp by passing water through the pulp and cooking down the solution. The fusion would be carried out in a metal gold pan over a camp fire until the KOH melts and when cooled the gold would be extracted in water. This should also open the black sands up for acid digestion after it has been thoroughly washed.

Anything else I can help with just let me know.

Randy in Gunnison


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## ivanchrist

thank you for the explanation. i really appreciate it.

I need time to apply it. Wish me luck.

regards


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## ivanchrist

For shecher,

I have translated your method and ready to process the black sand.
I am interested at appplying Fusion the black sand with equal amount of copper carbonate/sulfate.

I will fuse 2kg black sand with 2 kg CuSO4. 
I also want to try the hydroxide fusion. I would like to know how much potassium hydroxide to fuse with black sand? and how long?
Would it be ok if i substitute potassium hydroxide with NaOH?

You explained about "the fusion which would be carried out in metal gold pan over a camp fire until KOH melts and when cooled the gold would be extracted in water." ( it means that after the fusion with KOH, the gold will easily dissolve in water?)

because you mention this statement after above sentence," this should open the black sand up for acid digestion after it has been thoroughly washed."
This one makes me confused. if the gold is easily dissolved in water after KOH fusion, why the gold need to be processed for acid digestion esspecially after being washed. Won't the gold gone with the water?

thanks
regards


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## Shecker

KOH works just fine as a substitute for NaOH. It's fusion with the black sands
will open the grains of black sands up. It will dissolve some gold and the reulting gold hydroxide will be a reddish-brown in color. It will not dissolve
any silver or platinum group metals. But after thorough washing (the first washing will bring out the now water soluble gold hydroxide and a little extra may appear in subsequent washes) the black sands will be ready for digestion with AR or HCl - Cl. For rhodium a second fusion with sodium bisulphate may be necessary.

You can also make KOH by running water through wood pulp and cooking the water.

Randy in Gunnison


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## ivanchrist

Thank you for your explanation. Today i apply your method.
wish me luck.

regards


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## shadybear

Shecker said:


> KOH works just fine as a substitute for NaOH. It's fusion with the black sands
> will open the grains of black sands up. It will dissolve some gold and the reulting gold hydroxide will be a reddish-brown in color. It will not dissolve
> any silver or platinum group metals. But after thorough washing (the first washing will bring out the now water soluble gold hydroxide and a little extra may appear in subsequent washes) the black sands will be ready for digestion with AR or HCl - Cl. For rhodium a second fusion with sodium bisulphate may be necessary.
> 
> You can also make KOH by running water through wood pulp and cooking the water.
> 
> Randy in Gunnison



So how do you get the gold back out of the water or from gold hydroxide to 
metallic gold


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## Richard36

I agree. I would like to hear a little more about this process as well. 
I would also like to see a photo of that Rhodium ore. 
Further more, I would like a golf ball sized sample for my ore collection, If you (Shecker) would be so generous.

Sincerely; Rick. a.k.a. "The Rock Man".


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## acsphilip

If you believe you have that much Rh, then i would be willing to test your ore for free. Please email me at [email protected] to discuss further if you like , visit our website www.acslabs.com for further information.


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## Anonymous

How much does it cost to process one ounce of rhodium, using the system everyone is describing?


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## CHARLIE GREENLER

Mr. Frog, I dont supose I could get some leads for pgm testing ,even if it is in your back yard!!!!!!!! I have some tight compact cubic rhodium pyrite from molebdonit hydrothermal mud veigning (super mud).Its realy rich too.It makes good mirror and is expencive.The hard rock is rich too (super altered aventurine quarts).Soaked in AR any rhodium should be left behind as black chunks ,bits, pieces,and residues ect....I also electrolosise to kill the isotopes, but a good assayer or someone to front samples to to get an assay done would realy make $$$$$$$$$$.As I have some tonage myself worth 1/4 of a million per tone!!!!!! Boiling or leting soak in molten potasium salts (sodium bisulfite) cyanide also works, concentrated sulfuric and electricity works to disolve !!!!!!!!


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## goldsilverpro

CHARLIE GREENLER said:


> I also electrolosise to kill the isotopes,



That seems like a strange statement. The only way I can think of to "kill" (or, change) an isotope would be through transmutation. Please tell me how you can affect a nuclear change using an electrolysis process that only involves electrons? Cold fusion? This whole thing smacks of alchemy. Do you believe that the rhodium in there an "immature" metal?

Some pure gold or rhodium that you're actually able to put on a scale and weigh would go a long ways in this conversation.

From what you say, you already know how to do this and the numbers you give are huge. So far, how much gold and/or rhodium or their alloys have you sold? If you can concentrate them, surely you could sell them. Or, is the problem that they don't show up in a fire assay? What something is worth is only what you can sell it for. As the old saying goes, money (Au or Rh in this case) talks and BS walks. Show us the metal! Talk is cheap.


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## Palladium

Yeah he keeps screaming about that ore.


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## Brett6050

Shecker said:


> I have access to some of the richest rhodium ore on earth. I have 300 pounds of this material at my house right now and can get tons more. This material comes from the South American "platina belt" and is material the Spanish tried to smelt and couldn't do it. Finally they abandoned millions of tons of this material, leaving it for someone with better metallurgical knowledge. In time it was forgotten. How I am getting this material is my secret.
> 
> I have decided to offer small amounts of this material t anyone on the forums who wishes to extract rhodium. This material yields a bright green solution with everything I have tried, but straight HCl seems to work the best. This stuff comes in pieces that weigh as much as 20 pounds. I have no means right now to crush this stuff and it has a tendency to flatten before it breaks.
> 
> Here is the deal. I have access to far more of this material than I can ever use. After due consideration I have decided to share with others on the forum. But I am not giving it away. What I am asking is 50% of what you receive for processing. You cover the costs of extraction and I cover the costs of shipping. If you think this is far please let me know by emailing me at [email protected]. I will send pictures of this material and initial samples to all of those interested.
> 
> But remember this -- rhodium is carcinogenic and requires proper fume control.
> 
> I will also be running my own material and producing rhodium metal. It starts out red like copper, but is much heavier, and turns gray on drying.
> I extract it with just HCl and use iron as a reducing agent. I currently have about 20 ounces of this -- but I have pounds of the yellow alkaline chloride of rhodium. This is made by adding ammonium hydroxide to the HCl solution until a deep blue solution is reached. This occurs at about a pH of 10 to 12. A small addition of HCl drops the pH to about 8 and the yellow rhodium chloride precipitates out. As they say there is more than one way to skin a cat, although getting the cat to hold still must be a real problem.
> 
> Please do not ask for a sample of this unless series about doing something with it. Right now my money is very low and shipping costs money. But I will ship a sample to anyone who is series.
> 
> Randy in Gunnison





Shecker said:


> Testing has shown that this material contains a great deal of gelatin. The Spanish use to smelt with animal parts, particularly the blood of cows. For those of you want a source this is right out of De Re Metallica. This confirms that the point of origin was the Spanish in South America and that this came from the old platina belt._
> 
> Randy in Gunnison_


[/QUOTE]
Hi Randi I have the same problem it's so hard to extract rhodium from ore can you send me a pic of your ore is it creamy whitish colored rock? With grey to blk banding?


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## Yggdrasil

Hi Randi I have the same problem it's so hard to extract rhodium from ore can you send me a pic of your ore is it creamy whitish colored rock? With grey to blk banding?
[/QUOTE]

Brett!
Have you read and understood the whole thread?
Anyway he have not been on the forum since 2011 so you may wait a long time for answers.


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## Brett6050

Okay so no one goes to this site anymore?


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## Shark

At least one of the previous persons has died since this post was active. Possibly more have also.


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## Yggdrasil

Brett6050 said:


> Okay so no one goes to this site anymore?


Plenty people go to this forum, since it is the best forum for precious metals.

But the person you quoted has not been on the forum since 2011.
He left for some reason, it can be health, loss of interest or what ever.

Some people just leave when they don't get the information they want, instead of the information they need.
The real world can be a disappointing place.

It may be wise to check when a member was last active before asking them questions.
Hold your pointer over their name/avatar and this information will be showed.

Edited for clarity.


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## jphayesjr

ivanchrist said:


> I am newbie from Indonesia.
> 
> I do small research on black sand containing rhodium.
> I'd like to share the technique which i know so far..
> 
> 1. Crush the ore until 400-800mesh
> 2. Roasting the ore until 500oc for about 2-3hours
> 3. let it cool and soak it into HF+Nitric Acid to get rid off any SiO2 and heat it up for 2-3hours
> 4. Heat it up untill dry. then adding Aqua Regia, heat it up for 2-3hours to dilute Au, Pt, Pd
> 5. Siphon the liquor and separate the residue from the Aqua Regia leaching. (the residue might contain Rh, Ir, Os)
> 6. Process the mother liquor with sodium metabisulfite for Au, salmiac for Pt, sodium chlorate for Pd. (remove the nitric first by heating)
> 7. Process the residue with sulfuric acid. heat it up for 2-3hours.
> 8. Dilute the sulfuric acid with lots of water before siphoning. (4water : 1 sulfuric acid)
> 9. After siphoning, process the sulfuric acid with tin or iron. (pH 1)
> 10. i get black powder.
> 
> and that's all i know.. i am still working it/the black powder out to get pure rhodium. Am i making a mistake on above technique? :?:
> 
> The black sand is SiO2 sand with lots of Fe and 5% rhodium.(reports from local metallurgy lab)
> I tested it using steve method for rhodium and it is positive.
> 
> Any advice will be regarded. I need help on making pure rhodium.


What is salmiac? Thanks for sharing.


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## Yggdrasil

jphayesjr said:


> What is salmiac? Thanks for sharing.


Ammonium Hydroxide, we call it Salmiakk in Norway too


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## BlackLabel

With only one "k" at the end in German (Salmiak).


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## Shark

BlackLabel said:


> With only one "k" at the end in German (Salmiak).


Thanks guys, this is the type things that help us to better understand other languages.


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## Yggdrasil

With shame I have to admit I made a mistake.
Ammonium Chloride is called Salmiac /Salmiak(k).
It is besides refining used as flavouring in Liquorish


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## jphayesjr

Yggdrasil said:


> Ammonium Hydroxide, we call it Salmiakk in Norway too


thanks


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## Yggdrasil

jphayesjr said:


> thanks


Read my last post here


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## gultekin

Shecker said:


> I have access to some of the richest rhodium ore on earth. I have 300 pounds of this material at my house right now and can get tons more. This material comes from the South American "platina belt" and is material the Spanish tried to smelt and couldn't do it. Finally they abandoned millions of tons of this material, leaving it for someone with better metallurgical knowledge. In time it was forgotten. How I am getting this material is my secret.
> 
> I have decided to offer small amounts of this material t anyone on the forums who wishes to extract rhodium. This material yields a bright green solution with everything I have tried, but straight HCl seems to work the best. This stuff comes in pieces that weigh as much as 20 pounds. I have no means right now to crush this stuff and it has a tendency to flatten before it breaks.
> 
> Here is the deal. I have access to far more of this material than I can ever use. After due consideration I have decided to share with others on the forum. But I am not giving it away. What I am asking is 50% of what you receive for processing. You cover the costs of extraction and I cover the costs of shipping. If you think this is far please let me know by emailing me at [email protected]. I will send pictures of this material and initial samples to all of those interested.
> 
> But remember this -- rhodium is carcinogenic and requires proper fume control.
> 
> I will also be running my own material and producing rhodium metal. It starts out red like copper, but is much heavier, and turns gray on drying.
> I extract it with just HCl and use iron as a reducing agent. I currently have about 20 ounces of this -- but I have pounds of the yellow alkaline chloride of rhodium. This is made by adding ammonium hydroxide to the HCl solution until a deep blue solution is reached. This occurs at about a pH of 10 to 12. A small addition of HCl drops the pH to about 8 and the yellow rhodium chloride precipitates out. As they say there is more than one way to skin a cat, although getting the cat to hold still must be a real problem.
> 
> Please do not ask for a sample of this unless series about doing something with it. Right now my money is very low and shipping costs money. But I will ship a sample to anyone who is series.
> 
> Randy in Gunnison


Dear Randy 
we have stocks of platinum rhodium osmium concentrate in Turkey. We trying to find a real buyer refinery on the world. Can you advice any real buyer refinery ?
Platinum %8 Rhodium %4 Osmium %4
Best regards

Gultekin Cici
Semi Mining Ltd. Co.&Turkey
[email protected]


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## justinhcase

One of the most effective reactions for rhodium I have seen is concentrated sulfuric acid (97 %) at 400 °C which leads to red plate-shaped single crystals of Rh2(SO4)3.
And I quote.
"The reaction of elemental rhodium and concentrated sulfuric acid (97 %) at 400 °C leads to red plate-shaped single crystals of Rh2(SO4)3 [trigonal, _R_3, _Z_ = 6, _a_ = 806.8(1) pm, _c_ = 2204.8(4) pm, _V_ = 1242.8(4) × 106 pm3]. The same reaction carried out at a temperature of 475 °C leads to orange crystals of Rh2(SO4)3*·*2H2O [orthorhombic, _Pnma, Z_ = 4, _a_ = 920.46(2) pm, _b_ = 1244.47(3) pm, _c_ = 833.37(2) pm, _V_ = 954.61(4) × 106 pm3]. Thermal analysis and X-ray powder diffraction measurements were performed to investigate the decomposition and resulting residues of the compounds. For both compounds, the decomposition occurs through two steps and is finished at around 1000 °C at the stage of elemental rhodium. Additionally, both sulfates were characterized by means of IR spectroscopy."
How exactly you reflux 97% sulphuric Acid at 400c and what I can only expect to be several hundred PSI I do not know.
It would be interesting to find out if it can be achieved with any level of safety outside a specially constructed acid-resistant bunker to sit your primary reaction vessels in.


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## orvi

justinhcase said:


> One of the most effective reactions for rhodium I have seen is concentrated sulfuric acid (97 %) at 400 °C which leads to red plate-shaped single crystals of Rh2(SO4)3.
> And I quote.
> "The reaction of elemental rhodium and concentrated sulfuric acid (97 %) at 400 °C leads to red plate-shaped single crystals of Rh2(SO4)3 [trigonal, _R_3, _Z_ = 6, _a_ = 806.8(1) pm, _c_ = 2204.8(4) pm, _V_ = 1242.8(4) × 106 pm3]. The same reaction carried out at a temperature of 475 °C leads to orange crystals of Rh2(SO4)3*·*2H2O [orthorhombic, _Pnma, Z_ = 4, _a_ = 920.46(2) pm, _b_ = 1244.47(3) pm, _c_ = 833.37(2) pm, _V_ = 954.61(4) × 106 pm3]. Thermal analysis and X-ray powder diffraction measurements were performed to investigate the decomposition and resulting residues of the compounds. For both compounds, the decomposition occurs through two steps and is finished at around 1000 °C at the stage of elemental rhodium. Additionally, both sulfates were characterized by means of IR spectroscopy."
> How exactly you reflux 97% sulphuric Acid at 400c and what I can only expect to be several hundred PSI I do not know.
> It would be interesting to find out if it can be achieved with any level of safety outside a specially constructed acid-resistant bunker to sit your primary reaction vessels in.


400°C sulfuric sounds like a lot of fun  I am scared of it even at room temperature


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## BlackLabel

From acid's point of view, it's not funny.


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## fishaholic5

Ok, in relation to Sheckers post on pgms going into solution with acids that would not normally put them in solution...
There are particular ores that due to complex displacement reactions can result in pgms going into solution as the sulfates.

Cheers Wal


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## jphayesjr

Yggdrasil said:


> With shame I have to admit I made a mistake.
> Ammonium Chloride is called Salmiac /Salmiak(k).
> It is besides refining used as flavouring in Liquorish


Yummy


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## jphayesjr

jphayesjr said:


> What is salmiac? Thanks for sharing.


Your basic idea is correct. To what temperature do you heat the mixture at step 3? There are a few videos in YouTube that are basically correct to help you get pure metal from what I am inferring is black metal oxide powder. You need to include safety equipment and procedures. Rhodium is highly toxic as are its' salts, Osmium has many toxic compounds, and in some reactions can emit toxic gasses. Your black powder may contain that as well as some iridium.


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## Yggdrasil

jphayesjr said:


> Your basic idea is correct. To what temperature do you heat the mixture at step 3? There are a few videos in YouTube that are basically correct to help you get pure metal from what I am inferring is black metal oxide powder. You need to include safety equipment and procedures. Rhodium is highly toxic as are its' salts, Osmium has many toxic compounds, and in some reactions can emit toxic gasses. Your black powder may contain that as well as some iridium.


That is not correct. Neither Rhodium , Palladium, Platinum or Iridium are toxic as metals, but are quite toxic/hypoallergenic as salts.
Toxicity includes very many salts of metals.
Osmium and Ruthenium I can't say as metals, but they have this habit of forming TetraOxides which are very nasty.


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## Yggdrasil

I think it’s like this:
The less reactive a metal is, the safer it is, regarding toxicity, allergies and such.

Excluded radioactive metals of course.

Correct me if I’m wrong, this is just an idea if mine.


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## Hotdogg78

Shecker said:


> I have access to some of the richest rhodium ore on earth. I have 300 pounds of this material at my house right now and can get tons more. This material comes from the South American "platina belt" and is material the Spanish tried to smelt and couldn't do it. Finally they abandoned millions of tons of this material, leaving it for someone with better metallurgical knowledge. In time it was forgotten. How I am getting this material is my secret.
> 
> I have decided to offer small amounts of this material t anyone on the forums who wishes to extract rhodium. This material yields a bright green solution with everything I have tried, but straight HCl seems to work the best. This stuff comes in pieces that weigh as much as 20 pounds. I have no means right now to crush this stuff and it has a tendency to flatten before it breaks.
> 
> Here is the deal. I have access to far more of this material than I can ever use. After due consideration I have decided to share with others on the forum. But I am not giving it away. What I am asking is 50% of what you receive for processing. You cover the costs of extraction and I cover the costs of shipping. If you think this is far please let me know by emailing me at [email protected]. I will send pictures of this material and initial samples to all of those interested.
> 
> But remember this -- rhodium is carcinogenic and requires proper fume control.
> 
> I will also be running my own material and producing rhodium metal. It starts out red like copper, but is much heavier, and turns gray on drying.
> I extract it with just HCl and use iron as a reducing agent. I currently have about 20 ounces of this -- but I have pounds of the yellow alkaline chloride of rhodium. This is made by adding ammonium hydroxide to the HCl solution until a deep blue solution is reached. This occurs at about a pH of 10 to 12. A small addition of HCl drops the pH to about 8 and the yellow rhodium chloride precipitates out. As they say there is more than one way to skin a cat, although getting the cat to hold still must be a real problem.
> 
> Please do not ask for a sample of this unless series about doing something with it. Right now my money is very low and shipping costs money. But I will ship a sample to anyone who is series.
> 
> Randy in Gunnison


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## Yggdrasil

What is the intention of this quote Hotdogg78?
You do not ask anything or add any information?
Just echoing whats been posted before??


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