# Curious about your first time



## Sacgemini (Mar 17, 2018)

Hi I'm new here, as well as to the whole gold refining process, and as I am getting acquainted with the forum I must say I really admire the community and the vast wealth of knowledge one could inherit if truly seeking it. My interest was sparked when I pulled a power supply out of one of a handful of old pc's I have out in the garage to start scrapping it for copper (or see if it was even worth the effort). For the heck of it I went online to see if youtube had anything worthwhile on the topic and it did but for a different topic, scrapping pc's for gold. Having worked at Intel I wonder why I didn't think about that sooner.

Anyway I'm kinda curious as to someone's very first trial run through the process of an estimate (if even possible to estimate) of their yield (specifically looking for how much was lost) and the weight of their first button.

Thanks!
-Tim


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## nickvc (Mar 18, 2018)

Welcome to the forum Tim.
Your first idea to strip the base metals from your computer scrap is spot on as there is more value in them than the gold in virtually all computer scrap. I’m not saying you cannot get gold and other precious metals from e scrap but it does take a lot of scrap to make a decent button and also a lot of knowledge and work, the one good thing is that all you need to know is here on the forum if you want to learn the arts of recovery and refining and the best news is that’s it’s free and discussed in detail by some of the finest refiners on earth.
As to your question about the first button it depends on what quantity of scrap members had to work with, if you want a bigger button karat scrap is a better route unless you can source considerable amounts of e scrap to cherrypick.


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## Shark (Mar 18, 2018)

I think the majority, like myself, started out by going after the gold content. I had no thought about how much, I just wanted to learn how to get it out. My first button of gold was from many drops that often only weighed a few tenths of a gram. I saved all those powders up until I had a dirty looking button. I re worked that button and did manage to get it a little better. 
The first button and the refined version can be seen here.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=20981#p216088

While I like to think I have got better at refining, there is always those days that make me feel like I know nothing and have to start researching again. It has been a very interesting journey.


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## Sacgemini (Mar 18, 2018)

Thank you Shark and nickvc for your feedback and thanks for having me! Nice to know I'm on the right track, which is now leading me towards the path Shark hit on...I want to see if I can do it. With a handful of towers, several old laptops, 2 big boxes of computer parts that include CPU's that I got from laying out the circuits inside of them and never used this would just be a win-win situation clearing out the part of the garage at the same time. Collection also includes a box of old cell phones, wireless routers, cable boxes etc. I'm very intrigued, capable of learning, and have the resources at my disposal. I need a new hobby anyway Lol

And cool pics Shark, Thanks for sharing! I bet you still have that button somewhere safe


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## Shark (Mar 18, 2018)

Sacgemini said:


> Thank you Shark and nickvc for your feedback and thanks for having me! Nice to know I'm on the right track, which is now leading me towards the path Shark hit on...I want to see if I can do it. With a handful of towers, several old laptops, 2 big boxes of computer parts that include CPU's that I got from laying out the circuits inside of them and never used this would just be a win-win situation clearing out the part of the garage at the same time. Collection also includes a box of old cell phones, wireless routers, cable boxes etc. I'm very intrigued, capable of learning, and have the resources at my disposal. I need a new hobby anyway Lol
> 
> *And cool pics Shark, Thanks for sharing! I bet you still have that button somewhere safe*



Sadly no, it is the only button I have ever sold. However I do still have all the gold I have recovered since then, not counting jobs I have done for other people.


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## g_axelsson (Mar 18, 2018)

Sacgemini said:


> 2 big boxes of computer parts that include CPU's that I got from laying out the circuits inside of them and never used


If you have engineering samples of CPU:s then it would be a lot more valuable as a collectors item than as a source of gold. Since you have worked on Intel I guess you are familiar with S-codes, the model number Intel is using. If I'm not totally wrong the engineering samples were marked with Q and four letters and numbers.
Prototypes and engineering samples are very much sought after by CPU collectors.

Göran


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## Sacgemini (Mar 18, 2018)

That's a valid thought Goran, but I'm more interested in learning the process than I am making a buck off of them. And I will make sure to hang on to a few items specifically for my personal collection.


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## Sacgemini (Mar 18, 2018)

Shark said:


> Sacgemini said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you Shark and nickvc for your feedback and thanks for having me! Nice to know I'm on the right track, which is now leading me towards the path Shark hit on...I want to see if I can do it. With a handful of towers, several old laptops, 2 big boxes of computer parts that include CPU's that I got from laying out the circuits inside of them and never used this would just be a win-win situation clearing out the part of the garage at the same time. Collection also includes a box of old cell phones, wireless routers, cable boxes etc. I'm very intrigued, capable of learning, and have the resources at my disposal. I need a new hobby anyway Lol
> ...




At least you have a pic of it! A symbol of accomplishment


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## cosmetal (Mar 18, 2018)

Sacgemini said:


> Hi I'm new here, as well as to the whole gold refining process, and as I am getting acquainted with the forum I must say I really admire the community and the vast wealth of knowledge one could inherit if truly seeking it. My interest was sparked when I pulled a power supply out of one of a handful of old pc's I have out in the garage to start scrapping it for copper (or see if it was even worth the effort). For the heck of it I went online to see if youtube had anything worthwhile on the topic and it did but for a different topic, scrapping pc's for gold. Having worked at Intel I wonder why I didn't think about that sooner.
> 
> Anyway I'm kinda curious as to someone's very first trial run through the process of an estimate (if even possible to estimate) of their yield (specifically looking for how much was lost) and the weight of their first button.
> 
> ...



Greetings, neighbor.

Welcome to the fun house!

I still consider myself as a newbie. I have gold powder from my drops - not much, around 2 gms. But, no pics as I'm not finished with my recovery lessons and building my refining equipment. The truth be told, I need to locate my oxy/acetylene torch which is buried in a 10' x 30' storage unit. Of course, it's in the back of the unit behind all of my wife's goodies. :roll: 

PM me if you want to get a cup of coffee and compare notes and progress. 

Best,
James


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## glorycloud (Mar 19, 2018)

Sacgemini said:


> That's a valid thought Goran, but I'm more interested in learning the process than I am making a buck off of them. And I will make sure to hang on to a few items specifically for my personal collection.



I will send you two non ES / CS / mech sample / Intel confidential CPUs for every 
ES / CS / mech sample / Intel confidential CPU that you want to send me. That way
you can have double the material to start learning the processes taught here for
the recovery and refining of Au. 8) 

PM me if you're interested.


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## g_axelsson (Mar 19, 2018)

I would have made the same offer but Glorycloud beat me to it.  
Better go with him as he's more "local" than me. I just hate to see rare stuff destroyed just for an experiment when there is so much scrap that have no value except for the gold.

Göran


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## g_axelsson (Mar 19, 2018)

Oh, and my first gold button... was 30 years in the making. Ended up with 50 grams of nice but not so shiny gold. I think I had some serious palladium contamination.

I started to collect gold plated electronic scrap when I was a teenager. When I found this forum and learned how to refine gold I finally produced some fine gold powder. I collected this powder for several years until I had over 50 grams. Then I re-refined it and made my first real button.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=19840

I had made some mg-sized buttons as a test for yield on some components before I made the big button, but that doesn't count.
One IC recovery, milli gold button.
Yield from a single card, single gold finger refining.

Göran


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## rickbb (Mar 21, 2018)

My first button was about 3g, nice little melt puddle. 

But I lost it. 

Long before I found this forum I "learned" from useless-tube. Thought it was cool to follow a video to make a melting dish out of a block of charcoal. 

Had a nice melt going and just when I was ready to turn the heat off the "dish" cracked open, turned to ash and the gold poured itself out on the fire brick the charcoal dish was sitting on.  

I guess it's not really lost, I still can see that shiny gold spot that has been absorbed into the brick. :roll:


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## paras_gupta08 (Mar 23, 2018)

Hi

I have just joined this forum. I have never been on a forum before. I need help with refining and other metal reactions.
I have low quality solder alloy (SnPb) it contains traces of copper, silver and cadmium.
I want to remove/minimize these contents to get only SnPb.
I plan to make solder wire for soldering on electronics.

Can someone please help me?
Please guide me how to get 99.99% purity by removing everything except SnPb from the low quality mixture of the metal that I have.

Thanks in advance.
I am new to metallurgy but very excited and want to learn.
Pleaseeeee help me out.


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## artart47 (Mar 23, 2018)

Hi Tim!
Welcome to our forum.
I collected foils in a mason jar for quite a while . Then one morning I dissolved them in HCl/Clorox. I was so scared that I'd spill the beaker or drop it.
With the coaching of the old-timer forum members I dropped the gold and ended up with a 19gram beautiful button. I got a compliment from Harold! I know how singers on American Idol feel when they get an ovation from Simon! LOL.
Art.


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## FrugalRefiner (Mar 23, 2018)

paras_gupta, please don't double post. I deleted your other post since it was the same as this one.

Take a couple of minutes to read the forum rules. There is a link at the top of every page.

Dave


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## paras_gupta08 (Mar 23, 2018)

Hi again

Sorry for double posting before.

I am dealing with huge quantities of solder here. Around 10-12 tonnes per month.
I buy solder scrap and want to refine it, then make solder wire to be sold for industrial use to electronic companies.

I want help with refining of solder. I want to learn how to remove other components from SnPb namely Copper(Cu), Silver(Ag), Antimony(Sb), Iron(Fe)

The composition of the metal scrap I have usually contains about 60% tin, 35% lead and 5% other metals.
I want to remove these 5% other metals to refine my solder.

Please help.


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## jimdoc (Mar 23, 2018)

This is mainly a precious metals refining forum.
Sounds like you are already in over your head with those quantities, and asking what you are asking.
There may be people here to give you some advice, but be patient.


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## g_axelsson (Mar 23, 2018)

There is a way to refine the solder according to an old report. If it is economically or even practical I don't know.

It was done using molten salt electrolysis at 400-500 C, I'll try to find it...
Found it! http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22889&p=240305#p240305
Even Ammen discussed it so I guess it's fair use on this forum.  

Göran


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## paras_gupta08 (Mar 23, 2018)

g_axelsson said:


> There is a way to refine the solder according to an old report. If it is economically or even practical I don't know.
> 
> It was done using molten salt electrolysis at 400-500 C, I'll try to find it...
> Found it! http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22889&p=240305#p240305
> ...



Hi g_axelsson

Thanks for the reply. I am going through as much reading material as possible here.
But I am a noob considering the chemistry involved here  
It's taking me time to understand the procedures and whether or not they will give the results that I desire or not.

I really appreciate you spending time and trying to help me out. Thanks a lot buddy.  

(I can illustrate with pictures the current procedures that I undertake to try and refine the scrap solder if that helps. But I want to better the technique and make it more efficient and scalable for huge quantity. At present I am unable to achieve even 98% purity.)


I am still eagerly looking for a solution to my problem.


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## paras_gupta08 (Mar 23, 2018)

jimdoc said:


> This is mainly a precious metals refining forum.
> Sounds like you are already in over your head with those quantities, and asking what you are asking.
> There may be people here to give you some advice, but be patient.




Hi jimdoc

I understand that it is a precious metals forum here. People would be more interested in extraction of silver or antimony from solder.
But what I am seeking here is quite rudimentary. I hope there are people out there on this forum who might be able to help me out. I just want to learn to refine my product and need help with it.
I have been using sulphur, activated carbon, agitation, filtering using a big metal sieve techniques.
But unable to get desired results. These methods were suggested by some people in the same line of work as me. But they too do not have much knowledge about the chemistry involved here.

Thus I am trying to seek help from people who actually know what they are doing and can help me out.
I want to learn. I want to apply it to the problem I am facing.


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## Lino1406 (Mar 24, 2018)

The solder is paste/solid form or both? Is it feasible to make it dry powder? does it contain organics?


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## paras_gupta08 (Apr 3, 2018)

Lino1406 said:


> The solder is paste/solid form or both? Is it feasible to make it dry powder? does it contain organics?




The solder is in solid form i.e dust, bars, wires, slabs, slag waste, etc. but all are solid. It is high in impurities and have traces of other metals as I have mentioned earlier and that is what I need to refine to get 99.99% purity of solder.
(The paste is separate from solid we keep the batches entirely separate and the solid solder is not mixed with the paste.)

What do you mean by organics? please elaborate so that I can answer your question better.


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## Lino1406 (Apr 3, 2018)

If the state is powder, or small particles, aqua regia will dissolve constituents other than Pb, Sn, Ag which will make a white sediment as PbCl2, SnO2, AgCl. Extract Ag or leave it. Convert to oxides with NaOH. Water rinse, dry and melt with iron nails, coal, sand etc.


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## paras_gupta08 (Apr 3, 2018)

Lino1406 said:


> If the state is powder, or small particles, aqua regia will dissolve constituents other than Pb, Sn, Ag which will make a white sediment as PbCl2, SnO2, AgCl. Extract Ag or leave it. Convert to oxides with NaOH. Melt with iron nails, coal, sand etc.




The solder is not in powder form. A part of it is. But majority is in the form of solid solder sticks, bars, slabs. Weighing from 2kg to 25kg each.
I can melt it in liquid state. I have the equipment for that. But dont know how to convert it into powder form.
Pls suggest accordingly.

P.S
My main aim is to get purified solder. I want to remove other metals with least expensive method. Even if I am unable to recover the other substances its not a thing to worry about. My main objective is to make 99.99% pure solder at least possible cost.


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## rickbb (Apr 3, 2018)

In order to sell solder today it cannot have any lead in it in order to be RoHS compliant.

Your plan to remove everything except the 65% tin and 35% lead to make solder to sell needs work.


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## paras_gupta08 (Apr 3, 2018)

rickbb said:


> In order to sell solder today it cannot have any lead in it in order to be RoHS compliant.
> 
> Your plan to remove everything except the 65% tin and 35% lead to make solder to sell needs work.




I am ready for the work involved. I am just trying to learn to be able to fully understand the processes involved. Please teach me how can I refine it.

In our domestic market the solder containing lead is accepted for use.
For now, i do not intend to sell internationally, so the RoHS compliance is something I need not worry at the moment. It will come at a later stage when I intend to expand beyond the domestic market.

Also, can you shed some light as to what is the chemical composition of RoHS compliant solder? How is it made?


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## jimdoc (Apr 3, 2018)

I don't think your solder is "contaminated". There are lots of different varieties of solder for different purposes. That is what you should be looking into, to make all these different types.
Or separating the lead and tin for reloading purposes.


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## paras_gupta08 (Apr 3, 2018)

jimdoc said:


> I don't think your solder is "contaminated". There are lots of different varieties of solder for different purposes. That is what you should be looking into, to make all these different types.
> Or separating the lead and tin for reloading purposes.



I agree it is not "contaminated". My choice of words might be wrong here. But it was only to suggest what I intended to do.
Please help me out here.
What are the possible solutions you can think of?

I will begin trying out the possible solutions on a small sample first and post the images and the final result of each procedure.
I am greatly thankful to have found this forum and I hope I will be able to find and learn a lot here.

Thanks again everyone.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 4, 2018)

My first time, she and I were both about 14 or 15 and..................

My first time working with gold, chemically, was in purifying a large gold electroforming bath in a company I worked for, 52 years ago. The 50 gal gold bath ran 4 tr oz per gallon and was used to electroform gold slip rings about 1/8" thick. It was a cyanide solution and the gold itself was added in the form of PGC, KAu(CN)2. Today, the bath would cost about $300K. Back then @ $42/oz, it was about $10K. The slip ring base was a potted resin and, since it took about 24 hours of plating to get that thickness, organics would leach from the resin and would contaminate the bath. Before I started there, they would make up a fresh one every couple of months and have the old one refined. Of course, they got screwed on the refining and had to pay the PGC premium on the gold. It was expensive. I discovered that by evaporating down about 1/4 - 1/3 of the bath every couple of weeks, the PGC, having a much lower solubility cold than hot, and with the other chemicals in the bath having a quite high solubility, I could precipitate about 90-95% of the PGC in a very pure form. The remaining PGC in solution was sent out for refining. All in all, it saved a lot of money.

I've already discussed this at least a couple of times. My first time refining was at another company I worked for, still in my 20's. Half the building was the largest gold refinery W of the Mississippi and the other half made up the Western Division of the largest seller of PM plating solutions and equipment in the world, at that time. I was the head chemist for both, although I had never refined an oz of Au in my life. The refinery had a Wohlwill gold purification set up, but, because of too much impurities building up in the solution, they were having trouble getting the 99.99% Au purity that they had to have to be able to use the refinery gold in making PGC for the plating baths they sold. At that point, there were having to buy, at a premium, 4N Au on the open market. My 1st thought was to add a certain form of EDTA, as a liquid, to the solution to chelate the metal impurities and prevent them from co-depositing. I took a sample and added a little EDTA to it. To my disappointment, all the gold dropped out! 

However, after thinking about this for the rest of the day, I saw the possibility of a new method of refining gold. I experimented for 2 or 3 weeks and came up with a viable production method. During that time, I sent quite a few samples out for a full spectro analysis and every sample I sent out came back at least 4 Nines. We scrapped the Wohlwill cell and started producing nothing but 4 Nines gold in the refinery using my process. The only problem was that, if the refiners didn't follow the process to a tee, the solution was guaranteed to foam over, big time. After another couple of weeks with a lot of foamovers, I fine tuned the process, retrained the refiners, and all went smooth after that, with only an occasional foamover. I would guess that, in the 4 or 5 years they used it, about half a million oz of 4N Au was produced. The company was bought out by Occidental Petroleum and they soon destroyed it. I think it ended up being owned by Ford before it failed completely.


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## snoman701 (Apr 4, 2018)

goldsilverpro said:


> My first time, she and I were both about 14 or 15 and..................



So did you use a really strong liquor??


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## rickbb (Apr 5, 2018)

paras_gupta08 said:


> Also, can you shed some light as to what is the chemical composition of RoHS compliant solder? How is it made?



It is made without lead, that's all. Tin/silver, tin/copper, tin/antimony, etc.


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