# Obtaining nitric acid in the UK



## Lookslikejames (Sep 6, 2016)

Hi All, 

I am new to the forum and have been reading as much as possible, especially Hoke's guide, in an effort to learn as much as possible before I start up. I am waiting for a medical report from my doctors before I can apply for a licence for Nitric acid, but after reading some posts in here I'm a little concerned that I won't be able to get a licence. Has anyone from the UK applied for a licence and got one for the purpose of hobby refining? It would be good to hear people's experiences so I can see what the pitfalls are. I'm really interested in doing this as a hobby, it would be massively disappointing to not be able to even start!


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## Simon007 (Sep 8, 2016)

What you need a licence to obtain nitric? And get from a doctor?? I am from the uk and I know it's difficult to purchase, but you can buy it on eBay and there is a company that advertises ar on eBay and looking at their website it sells nitric on its own and there is nothing that I've noticed that says you need a licence, however I haven't tried to buy anything yet as I'm getting info before refining! Also there is a company called canna that sells nitric acid at 38% for plant food or something, I did see a video on YouTube where a guy was using that to refine.


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## justinhcase (Sep 8, 2016)

Simon007 said:


> What you need a licence to obtain nitric? And get from a doctor?? I am from the uk and I know it's difficult to purchase, but you can buy it on eBay and there is a company that advertises ar on eBay and looking at their website it sells nitric on its own and there is nothing that I've noticed that says you need a licence, however I haven't tried to buy anything yet as I'm getting info before refining! Also there is a company called canna that sells nitric acid at 38% for plant food or something, I did see a video on YouTube where a guy was using that to refine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Out standing research.
You may want to look at the issue a little more in depth.
The Deregulation Act[1] is the result of a UK Government initiative to cut bureaucracy in business and retail, including that associated with the sale of poisons and precursors. The provisions affecting chemical supply came into effect on 26 May 2015, and have resulted in substantial changes to the Poisons Act 1972[3].
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/licensing-for-home-users-of-explosives-precursors/licensing-for-home-users-of-poisons-and-explosive-precursors
Regrettably the nice safe world where every one could be trusted with powerful agent is no more.
There has been a steady stream of individuals coming to light who think that it is necessary to harm people of other belief systems,and most of what we use to refine can be used in an offensive way. 
So for the safety of all the people of the world we need to control such precursors. 
The Home office license is the cheapest alternative,You could also set up a trading company and invest £20-30,000 and address the Money Laundering Regulations 2007. The Terrorism Act 2000 (as amended by the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, the Terrorism Act 2006 and the Terrorism Act 2000 and Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Amendment) Regulations 2007) instead.
All holy worth while if it stops one idiot walking into a crowded public aria with a pressure cooker bomb.
You may need to invest a little more time and be a bit patient.


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## Simon007 (Sep 8, 2016)

Well I never stated I knew what I was talking about, I was surprised to read that, I never said you don't need a licence, all I know is what I wrote, I know there are people on eBay selling nitric (albeit from Europe) and a company selling Aqua Regia on eBay and on the same companies website sell nitric too, just saying, I don't know anything about licences hence the question marks and yes I do need to look at it more in depth hence I stated I am getting info before I refine


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## Simon007 (Sep 8, 2016)

Also I have done a quick search and I mean quick so please don't think that I know what I am talking about but, I can find no legalities for an individual to purchase nitric acid, also the said company will let me order 1 litre of nitric for £12.99 with free postage and let me pay on PayPal! Also I know what you are talking about, with all this terrorist problems has made it a problem but let's face it are terrorists going to go through legal channels to buy it? Like I said I can buy it on eBay, there is a company in Latvia selling it and Italy plus the company in the uk so it's not hard to buy.


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## justinhcase (Sep 8, 2016)

Simon007 said:


> Also I have done a quick search and I mean quick so please don't think that I know what I am talking about but, I can find no legalities for an individual to purchase nitric acid, also the said company will let me order 1 litre of nitric for £12.99 with free postage and let me pay on PayPal! Also I know what you are talking about, with all this terrorist problems has made it a problem but let's face it are terrorists going to go through legal channels to buy it? Like I said I can buy it on eBay, there is a company in Latvia selling it and Italy plus the company in the uk so it's not hard to buy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Ordering controlled precursors from over seas may not be the best idea.
There may well be some company's who will flout the guide lines.Even the transport of Nitric acid through conventional post is an offense.
The cheapest legal transport I know of in the U.K. cost's £50 a shipment minimum so I tend to order 100L at a time.
Being a U.K. resident you will know well it is down to the kind of relationship you have developed with your local police and council that will dictate how the legislation is interpreted.
We had a case of a local chief constable issuing his own wife with a notice for a defective cycle light.as she was on her way down the shops to buy him some supper.
My advice to any one is keep squeaky clean as any mistake will be with you for a long time and affect every thing form your employment to your mortgage.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 8, 2016)

justinhcase said:


> [
> We had a case of a local chief constable issuing his own wife with a notice for a defective cycle light.as she was on her way down the shops to buy him some supper..




Wow... :lol: .

I'd like to think he was doing it to get back at her for something... But, if not, he surely began his tenure in the dog house after that..

:lol:


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## Simon007 (Sep 8, 2016)

Well the company in the uk which is a genuine legal company which supplies chemicals do not charge delivery and the package is supplied in un Certified HDPE bottles with a Leak Proof wadded cap for extra security, also delivery for nitric acid if it is less than 70% but greater than 65% then the UN LQ22 applies therefore a company could ship this to you in 1 litre containers without the need for ADR shipping. There are a number of carriers that accept LQ shipments. This is how most lab chemicals are shipped. I am getting this from the Internet.

I am not trying to undermine you or even tell you that you are wrong, but with small quantities I have not heard that you need a licence and the fact that companies are not asking if I have one, sort of leads me to believe that I don't need one. Mind you I am making the presumption that you only want 1 litre at a time!


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## justinhcase (Sep 8, 2016)

Simon007 said:


> Well the company in the uk which is a genuine legal company which supplies chemicals do not charge delivery and the package is supplied in un Certified HDPE bottles with a Leak Proof wadded cap for extra security, also delivery for nitric acid if it is less than 70% but greater than 65% then the UN LQ22 applies therefore a company could ship this to you in 1 litre containers without the need for ADR shipping. There are a number of carriers that accept LQ shipments. This is how most lab chemicals are shipped. I am getting this from the Internet.
> 
> I am not trying to undermine you or even tell you that you are wrong, but with small quantities I have not heard that you need a licence and the fact that companies are not asking if I have one, sort of leads me to believe that I don't need one. Mind you I am making the presumption that you only want 1 litre at a time!
> 
> ...


Please do Presume away.
They must have very lenient guide lines on hazardous substances.if they do.
Employee safety is normally there number one concern and if you look they normally specifically prohibit any thing that may cause problems.
May be the Home office has it wrong,I am sure YouTube is a much better source for information.
Good Luck.


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## Simon007 (Sep 8, 2016)

I am not getting my information from YouTube, I was making a comment that I did not know that you need a licence, I stated that I don't know anything and that I am learning which is why I haven't ever posted anything, all I know is that I can personally purchase nitric from a genuine company that is registered and can draw my own conclusions from that, I do get the impression that your flaming me because maybe you think I am telling you that you are wrong, which I am not, the thing that makes forums great is that all members have info or views or something like that, no one is 100% right and everyone has an opinion, ok I am wrong and I apologise for my opinions, good luck in your quest and hope you don't wait long for your licence.


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## justinhcase (Sep 8, 2016)

I did that particular research in 2014.
"Dear Justin
Thank you for your email.
The licence requirements apply only to the purchase of regulated substances up until 3 March 2016. After that date they will also apply to possession and use of the substances by members of the general public.
As you cannot yet demonstrate to a supplier that you need the substances for the purposes of your trade, business or profession at the current time, you would need to apply for a license in order to purchase the substances.
You do not need a license for the substances currently in your possession. If you are not set up as a trading business by 3 March 2016, you will need a license even for the substances in your possession.
Kind regards,
J. Fanshaw
CBRNE unit
[email protected]"

So I built a trading company for that reason,once you have your first years Tax returns this demonstrates to a supplier that you need the substances for the purposes of your trade,which is now my business and part time profession 
I have been up and running for just under two years, I was chuffed to get my own hallmark.
One of the benefits of staying with in the legislation is Nitric for only £2 a liter.that makes very good incentive for company's willing to deal under the counter.
They will just say they thought you where a business so there is no risk for them.
And Regarding " thing that makes forums great is that all members have info or views or something like that, no one is 100% right and everyone has an opinion," I hope that the prominent slant is for the right information.If you do not have an informed perspective it might cause other members problems if they follow bad advice. 
I do try and only post if I feel I have a handle on that issue.and only correct if I have positive proof.
Regards
Justin


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## Simon007 (Sep 8, 2016)

You really have missed my point, I didn't realise you needed a licence, I wasn't saying you didn't need one, and I was saying that there are companies in the uk, registered legitimate companies selling to people who don't have a licence, which compounded my surprise to needing a licence, I wasn't telling you or anyone else on this forum that you don't need a licence. Also I can go to any hydroponics shop and buy canna ph grow, which is 38% nitric acid, which is more than the 3% stated licence requirements, its so great that you only post when your correct, I suppose forums don't work with discussions?

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## justinhcase (Sep 8, 2016)

Simon007 said:


> You really have missed my point, I didn't realise you needed a licence, I wasn't saying you didn't need one, and I was saying that there are companies in the uk, registered legitimate companies selling to people who don't have a licence, which compounded my surprise to needing a licence, I wasn't telling you or anyone else on this forum that you don't need a licence. Also I can go to any hydroponics shop and buy canna ph grow, which is 38% nitric acid, which is more than the 3% stated licence requirements, its so great that you only post when your correct, I suppose forums don't work with discussions?
> 
> Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk


I suppose if they are supplying lager scale horticulture of a questionable nature why would they not go all the way and make explosive precursors available to all. 
Sorry I am a home office licensed security officer and always advise as best I can with in the legislation.
If you want to discuss doing things that are a criminal offense on an open forum have at it old boy.
You seem to know some of the fine print despite not having heard of the legislation before.
I only buy concentrated acids so had completely forgotten about the 35% limit .I know hair stylists are besides them self's as they can not get H2O2 any more,a buy product of the July 7th bombing.
So I do kind of frown upon the security services best efforts to keep us safe being by passed.


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## goldenhaha (Sep 8, 2016)

Simon007 said:


> You really have missed my point, I didn't realise you needed a licence, I wasn't saying you didn't need one, and I was saying that there are companies in the uk, registered legitimate companies selling to people who don't have a licence, which compounded my surprise to needing a licence, I wasn't telling you or anyone else on this forum that you don't need a licence. Also I can go to any hydroponics shop and buy canna ph grow, which is 38% nitric acid, which is more than the 3% stated licence requirements, its so great that you only post when your correct, I suppose forums don't work with discussions?
> 
> Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk



I would quit trying to spar him Justin because he thinks he is always right. Go on about your business and see who is right you or him.


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 8, 2016)

Guys, no one is going to win this "debate". You've both made your points, repeatedly. 

In the state of Ohio, in the US, it is illegal to set off fireworks, yet they are sold legally as long as you tell the folks at the store you're going to set them off somewhere else. Of course, people set them off here all the time. Even though it is illegal, the police don't converge on their homes and throw them into shackles. We could have a similar debate over whether it legal, right, advisable, etc., 

There are the laws. And then there are exceptions and loopholes. If you really want to see them eliminated, and see enforcement tightened even further, you make a big noise about them until the authorities take notice. 

Let's get back to discussing recovery and refining of precious metals. 

Dave


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## Simon007 (Sep 8, 2016)

I don't think I'm right at all, I am new to all this and will learn everything from knowledgable people on here, also I don't wish to fight to win any debate, I have learnt something today and am always open to learn plenty more.


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## Lookslikejames (Sep 9, 2016)

So... does anyone have any guidance or help for me lol? :shock:


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## justinhcase (Sep 9, 2016)

Lookslikejames said:


> So... does anyone have any guidance or help for me lol? :shock:


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/licensing-for-home-users-of-explosives-precursors/licensing-for-home-users-of-poisons-and-explosive-precursors
It is an offence for a member of the public to acquire or import any of the regulated substances without holding a valid EPP licence issued by the Home Office.
If found guilty of this offence, there is a maximum penalty of 2 years’ imprisonment and/or a fine.
Unlicensed the maximum concentration you should have is only• nitric acid: 3% ,•hydrogen peroxide:12%


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## Barren Realms 007 (Sep 9, 2016)

justinhcase said:


> Lookslikejames said:
> 
> 
> > So... does anyone have any guidance or help for me lol? :shock:
> ...



Why don't you just make a single thread about the rules in your area and the explinations behind them and then you can just post a single link to that thread when something like this is asked and it would save a lot of agrivation. IMHO


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## justinhcase (Sep 10, 2016)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > Lookslikejames said:
> ...


I will try and put the U.K. legal situation into a concise form if you think that will help.
There are two routs for people to go as a hobby or as a business,both have legal obligations but the home office have produced some very good guide lines(they what to make sure no one should have any excuses not to have understood.) so I will just list the necessary reading with links to the relevant document.
It is all very well publicized and any one who runs a basic search would have easily found the information.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Sep 10, 2016)

justinhcase said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > justinhcase said:
> ...




I think it would be the best thing to do as far as this subject goes. And links from any other information that comes to light could be added. I think it would kind of calm down the problems that come up when this subject starts getting discussed.


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## Lookslikejames (Sep 11, 2016)

I have found all that information already and am starting the application, but thanks anyway. The reason for my post was just to hear from others on their experience when applying, and to see how many people have actually managed to get a licence.


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## darkminos (Jul 27, 2020)

So... did you get the licence in the end?  

Asking because I applied about 30 days ago and awaiting a reply.

Thanks


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## darkminos (Jul 30, 2020)

For anyone looking at this post in 2020. I have applied for a epp licence about 36 days ago (that's 36 working days) and still waiting for a reply. I did chase them and they did say that my application is still being reviewed. I will update once successful (or not :shock: )


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## darkminos (Jul 31, 2020)

Woop-woop! Just received the email!



> Good Morning,
> 
> Your application for a licence to import, acquire, possess and use poisons and/or explosives precursors has been granted. The licence has been placed in the post today and should be with you shortly.
> 
> ...


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## Bigjobs (Aug 11, 2020)

Congratulations on your licence.

Can I ask what you had to provide as part of the application?


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## darkminos (Aug 12, 2020)

Bigjobs said:


> Congratulations on your licence.
> 
> Can I ask what you had to provide as part of the application?



All the requirements are listed on this page:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ors-and-poisons-licence-application-checklist

In a nutshell, ID (passport), 2 x Proof of address, You need a countersignature on all the forms, and if you are not British then you need to provide a certificate of good conduct.

When filling out the form you need to state which chemicals you would like the licence to cover, what are you going to use them for, what concentration you need, and what quantity at any given time you would like to purchase.


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## Bigjobs (Aug 12, 2020)

Ah, thanks very much.


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## Simon007 (Sep 22, 2020)

Congrats on your licence, I still am going to get a licence myself, in the 4 years from when I posted I have still been learning and collating material. 

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## darkminos (Oct 4, 2020)

My advise would be apply for at least 25L of whatever you will need, be it Nitric Acid or Sulphuric Acid. The biggest challenge was to get anyone to sell it to me in small quantities in the UK after finally getting the licence, half the companies only sell to educational institutions and the rest only to businesses. In the end I found companies that will sell to me, but they are in mainland Europe and postage is expensive. 

In the end I was forced to distill my own nitric acid (quite labour intensive, and now regretting that I didn't just order from Europe). I did however order 98% Sulphuric Acid from a company in Europe (distilling sulphuric acid from drain cleaner is too dangerous in my oppinion so was happy to pay the postage).

The oxymoron being that I think you might find someone in the UK that will sell you those in quantities of 25L+. My licence only covers 5L Nitric and 500ml Sulphuric so I really struggled to have anyone take me seriously...



Simon007 said:


> Congrats on your licence, I still am going to get a licence myself, in the 4 years from when I posted I have still been learning and collating material.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk


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