# Average Time Mylars Have To Sit In Nitric/Peroxide?



## Anonymous (Dec 19, 2012)

Hello members,

I'm doing my first (1 lb) batch of keyboard mylars and I'm needing some info.

I have mixed a 50/50 of Nitric Acid and Peroxide. I am using 200 ml of Nitric and 200 ml of Peroxide. When I place the mylars in the acid, some of the mylars turn from a silver/white color to a grey, while some others don't seem to change colors at all... or I'm not leaving them in the solution long enough.

So, my question is "What is the average time to keep the mylars in the acid solution?" I don't want to take them out too soon, and yet, I don't want to think it takes 5 minutes per mylar when I have many more to do.

Some of the mylars did turn black and I can see that they must be stripped of the silver, while some of the black mylars don't appear to change at all. I think those are the carbon ones.

I'll also post my results and my yields from this 1 lb batch. If I get it right the first time, I'll do at least 4 more 1 lb batches to get an average yield from 1 lb of mylars. I have about 60 lbs to work with right now.

*[UPDATE]*
I meant to add that the the Nitric I have is 69.5%. Do I need to add more Nitric to make it 55% Nitric to 45% Peroxide?

Kevin


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## Smack (Dec 19, 2012)

.../,,/


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## Anonymous (Dec 19, 2012)

Smack said:


> 50/50 is fine, I use a pyrex cake pan for the shape and about the same volume of chemicals. I have the sheets cut in thirds and put them in one at a time untill they get close to not being covered by the chemicals. Then I go do something else for a few minutes like 10, 15, 20 don't really matter, they will be there when you get to them. By this time they should all be black and clean of any silver, then I pull them out one at a time and mist them with a spray bottle and distilled water into another container, let it drip well then on to the next one. I put all the stripped sheets that I think may still have silver on, in with all the circuit boards bound for the refiner, just in case I missed any silver. Don't stop at one pound, you should be able to do them all at 4 lbs., when your done take some silver that you've already refined once and dropped with copper and put into the solution to make sure all the nitric is spent, or you could save it until you have more mylars ready to do, up to you. Either way, when the reaction stops your ready to add your copper to cement out the silver. If you don't use up all the nitric, when you add copper you will have a vigorous reaction. Nitric ain't cheap so try to use as much up on new scrap (like your mylars) as possible.
> 
> Can some one merge this with http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=12285&hilit=mylars
> 
> If my quick math is right you should be able to get over 100g of silver with that amount of nitric.


Thanks for the reply Smack!

I have some pictures I'm going to post, but there are also some time-frames I'm noticing about some of the mylars.

*No# 1.* Some of the mylars have been in the solution for more than 30 minutes and they're just now turning dark grey, to a brownish color then to a black.

*No# 2.* Some of the mylarss that are silver in color never changed colors at all, even after 30+ minutes soaking in the acid. I'm starting to believe that some of the mylars will take at least an hour or even longer to strip the silver off of it.

*No# 3.* Some of the mylars change colors almost instantly when they're put in the acid, turning them black. 

*No# 4.* My rinse tray has a darker grey/brownish color after rinsing the mylars. I'm thinking my rinse is rinsing some silver in the rinse tray.

*No# 5.* What do I do with the rinse tray? I'm sure I can process that too, but the video I saw from Samuel-a doesn't explain what to do with it.

I'm making progress, but it's starting to get dark now and the sun is down. Can the solution stay outside overnight? I have a drawer that I can place the solution in and keep it covered.

Also, the video slideshow I saw inspired me to start my processing, but it don't mention anything about using copper to drop the silver, nor, how much Nitric/Peroxide to use per pound. Also, it doesn't explain what to do with the rinse tray.

One more thing... I want to see the yield from this first batch of mylars, so, what do I do to get the most out of the Nitric without having to waste any of it by adding Hydrochloric Acid to it? In other words, how can I get the silver out and still use the same batch of Nitric/Peroxide?

Once I get this batch completed and understand the time it takes to complete the whole process, I can perfect the method and get better yields, not unless what I recover is what it actually is to recover.


Kevin


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## Smack (Dec 19, 2012)

...,,//


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## samuel-a (Dec 20, 2012)

testerman 

I'm assuming you used tap water to rinse the mylars, the rinse tray get discolored due to chlorides in the water.
The reason i suggested to use tap water and not distilled is simply the price difference, nothing else.

200 ml of 69% nitric will easily dissolve up to 150g of silver when cold (even more when hot).
The problem is that each mylar removed from the main nitric solution, some of it is lost in favor of the rinse tray.

Since the Silver on the mylars is very pure, i strongly stand against copper cementation.
Silver chloride methode is not favored by many, mainly becouse the wash cycles, but in this case the silver chloride desn't need much wasing at all.
It is up to you to choose which methode to proceed though...

Any case, you should read up some more here on the forum about the two procedures.

------

When you put the mylar in solution, try to see a change. The moment you see some change that means that the silver is off. That usually doesn't take any more then few seconds).
As you saw for yourself, there are quite a few colors left after the dissolution (black, gray, transparent etc'...). Try to compare the colors with an area that not yet been in the bath... that's about it.


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## Anonymous (Dec 20, 2012)

Below are some pictures I took yesterday and one today to show what the rinse dish looked like when I was finish for the day. But, when I opened up the drawer today to take out the rinse dish, it was completely clear, and not the color you'll see in the last photo. I remember reading it on the slideshow that I need to let it settle overnight and it'll clear up.
















I'm convinced some silver is in the rinse batch. I'll put both the nitric and the rinse solution together once I finish the rest of the mylars that are still soaking (about 30 minutes now).

*Question.* I have some clean copper pipe, and after everything settles by tomorrow, do I place the copper in the solution to get it to start dropping/collecting the silver? Samuel-a video says to use Hydrochloric Acid. I guess there are more ways to do this than one. Copper seems to be easier, being as though no acids are needed, yet the Hydrochloric method seem to work too. Any input appreciated.

Kevin


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## etack (Dec 20, 2012)

samuel-a said:


> testerman
> 
> I'm assuming you used tap water to rinse the mylars, the rinse tray get discolored due to chlorides in the water.
> The reason i suggested to use tap water and not distilled is simply the price difference, nothing else.
> ...




I often wondered if you were to use a strong H2O2(higher than 3%) and HCl if this would remove the silver as a AgCl and make recovering the silver easier without all the wasted liquid.

It seems that your silver nitrate would get too diluted and you could never fully recover the all that was still on the Mylars as silver nitrate residue. However you would be able to see the AgCl that was recovered.

Eric

When you only have PPM in your rinse water HCL will be the quickest way to recover them. The Cu will work just take longer


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## Anonymous (Dec 20, 2012)

samuel-a said:


> testerman
> 
> I'm assuming you used tap water to rinse the mylars, the rinse tray get discolored due to chlorides in the water.
> The reason i suggested to use tap water and not distilled is simply the price difference, nothing else.
> ...


Sam,

Thanks for your input. I was making my post when you made yours. Once I complete the rest that I have, I'll let it settle for the night.

After that, all I do is add a few ml of Hydrochloric Acid and give it a swirl? and let it settle for a few hours or until it cements?

Kevin


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## Anonymous (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks for the input *etack*. 

So, according to how much Nitric I used, I should be able to do 10 pounds of mylars, that's if 15 grams is the average amount to be recovered from 1 lb of mylars. Since I used 200 ml of Nitric (69.5) + 200 ml of Peroxide (3%), at 150 grams per that amount I used so far, I might can do 11 pounds of them.

Also, I'm thinking maybe a stronger Peroxide might be what I need because everyone of the mylars I soaked, I have personally felt the exposed silver on them, yet, some of them never changed, and some of them took at least an hour just to start to change. There is no sheeting or plastic covering them at all. For some reason I think the solution isn't strong enough, but on the other hand, some of the mylars turn from grey to completely black within seconds.

I hate to have to waste my solution after I finish the 1 lb batch, so, how can I collect what I did strip so far and still save the solution for later, or do I need to do the 10 lbs worth?

At the rate of me rinsing the mylars, I'm going to end up with a 1 gallon or more waste bucket if I need to processing 10 lbs of mylars. Or, can I let the waste gar settle overnight and siphon off the water from that?

Thanks again for all the input too. I really enjoy what I've done so far, yet, I don't want to waste anything either.

Note:... We've been having 40 mph winds here today. My stuff is secured and covered, but the wind is kicking hard and the temp is dropping like crazy right now.

Kevin


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## Pantherlikher (Dec 20, 2012)

Interesting thought on your waste water... Can you let it stand in an open container in the cold?.. Would the water freeze? You could take the ice out and quick rinse and "distill" the waster water down concentrating your waste solution...

BS.
Wondering what temperature Nitric mixed with silver and water freezes...


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## Anonymous (Dec 20, 2012)

Pantherlikher said:


> Interesting thought on your waste water... Can you let it stand in an open container in the cold?.. Would the water freeze? You could take the ice out and quick rinse and "distill" the waster water down concentrating your waste solution...
> 
> BS.
> Wondering what temperature Nitric mixed with silver and water freezes...


I would need to take a small portion and freeze it (not in my freezer though) outside when the temp gets to freezing. But, I am not sure if Nitric/Peroxide mix would even freeze under conventional freezing.

But I like the idea you gave.

Kevin


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## Anonymous (Dec 20, 2012)

I just came from Wikipedia and also read the MSDS sheet for Nitric Acid and cannot find any information on the word "freeze", "freezing" or "frozen" for the acid. 

It's 41 degrees Fahrenheit outside right now and it's going to get to 28 degrees tonight. I'll know by the morning if it freezes, especially the rinse bowl. I'm almost convinced it won't freeze. Also, I think I need to place the gar in another container in case it does freeze, and possibly crack my gar.

*[UPDATE]*
It's now 39 degrees @ 5:06 PM CST.


Kevin


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## Geo (Dec 20, 2012)

its a little late but, did you happen to wash the mylars before processing? certain cleaning products used to clean keyboards contain components that may inhibit the action of the acid. oils from your hands have the same effect as well as air borne pollutants such as cigarette smoke (ever walk into the house of a heavy smoker and look at the ceiling), cooking oils from frying chicken or many other sources. wash the next set in "Dawn" and dry before processing.


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## Anonymous (Dec 20, 2012)

Geo said:


> its a little late but, did you happen to wash the mylars before processing? certain cleaning products used to clean keyboards contain components that may inhibit the action of the acid. oils from your hands have the same effect as well as air borne pollutants such as cigarette smoke (ever walk into the house of a heavy smoker and look at the ceiling), cooking oils from frying chicken or many other sources. wash the next set in "Dawn" and dry before processing.


You know what?.. I thought about doing that before I processed them. I bought (2) 40 lb boxes of mylars plus a gaylord of keyboards. The mylars I just processed without washing. The good thing is that I only started with just one pound of them. I have at least 50 lbs more to work with.

I'll definitely do that on my next batch because I'm too convinced that some of the mylars aren't being stripped well enough when parts of them are being stripped. I am thinking, if the Nitric is going to strip the mylars, it's going to completely strip them, not part of them. As you can see in my photos above, some of the mylars got stripped slowly, while the rest of the same mylar never changed colors at all. I can't see some parts turning completely black and the other parts staying the same color as when I first put them in the acid.

Again, Geo, thanks for that bit of info. I'm definitely going to do that on my next 1 lb batch. I figure some lukewarm water and some Dawn should clean them more to get the silver really exposed.

Kevin


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## Geo (Dec 20, 2012)

wear rubber gloves during and after washing. do not handle them with your bare hands after washing. this same advice is applied to the sulfuric stripping cell material. the same effects come into play.


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## Anonymous (Dec 20, 2012)

Geo said:


> wear rubber gloves during and after washing. do not handle them with your bare hands after washing. this same advice is applied to the sulfuric stripping cell material. the same effects come into play.


Done deal. I just got back from the Dollar Store. We actually had run out of Dawn. I bought the 32 oz size. I'll keep me some for myself.

Again, a very well informed suggestion. I'll never forget this.

Kevin


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## Smack (Dec 20, 2012)

/..,,


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## Anonymous (Dec 20, 2012)

Smack said:


> Your planning on filtering your solution before dropping right? The one pan looks like some of the carbon may have come off, but filtering should leave your solution clean.


The pan on the left is the solution, the one on the right is the rinse pan. 

And speaking of filtering, I can use a regular coffee filter? And should I use distilled or tap water for the rinsing?

You know what I meant to ask?... Is it safe to bring the rinse gar inside or should I just leave it outside? It's in a drawer outside that has two big drawers, one on the top and the other on the bottom. It's now down to 37 degrees here. It's suppose to be 28 degrees by 5:30am in the morning.


Kevin


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## Anonymous (Dec 22, 2012)

Pantherlikher said:


> Interesting thought on your waste water... Can you let it stand in an open container in the cold?.. Would the water freeze? You could take the ice out and quick rinse and "distill" the waster water down concentrating your waste solution...
> 
> BS.
> Wondering what temperature Nitric mixed with silver and water freezes...


Here is what I found out from leaving the solution outside.

It will not freeze. So, unless I do another freeze test on it, it won't freeze. It even got down to not only 28 degrees (F) last night, it got down to 23 degrees (F), and still no freezing.

Right now I have around 1600 ml of solution/rinse, and now I need to know if I should siphon off the solution or not. I bought them in the house because it's cold outside and although the solutions have cleared up quite a bit, and I can see the silver settling on the bottom, it's still not as clear as I know it was once before.

I'll post pictures of the rinse gar and the main solution gar today. 

The main solution was crystal clear, but I added the rinse to the empty gar and then the main solution to it. It's been outside since yesterday and it has cleared up, yet it's still not crystal clear. I can see through it and I can see the bottom from the top of the gar, which appears to have silver settling down on the bottom.

Maybe it settling in the house where it's warm inside, it should settle by later tonight.

Again, once I filter and let the solution settle, should I siphon off the extra rinse water or do I add the HCl to the solution?

Thanks again for all the help and advice.

Kevin


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## Anonymous (Dec 23, 2012)

I completed the 1 lb batch already and let the solution and rinse gar settle. Now I have over 1600 ml of solution/rinse mixture.

From this point, do I siphon off the solution, or do I add the HCl?

If you notice in the photos below, the first photo is the main solution with a mixture of rinse solution on the left and the 100% rinse solution on the right.

I was thinking that I will need to use my other 1000 ml beaker and mix both solutions together to give them an even amount of mixture. But I'm still not sure if I will need to siphon off the extra solution or add the HCl to them as they are.

I also noticed that I need to filter the solution, so, my question is "Do I use a coffee filter? and since there is silver settled on the bottom already, do I use a rinse (distilled water) and put the silver in its own beaker?











My next batch I'll possibly eliminate the need to filter when I clean the mylars in some Dawn and dry them well before using the Nitric/Peroxide.

Thanks again for all the help.


Kevin


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## Geo (Dec 23, 2012)

why create AgCl if you dont have to. draw or siphon the clear solution from the powder and cement what will drop with copper. thats just one step.converting to AgCl adds extra work and adds other stuff to the mix.


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## Anonymous (Dec 23, 2012)

Geo said:


> why create AgCl if you dont have to. draw or siphon the clear solution from the powder and cement what will drop with copper. thats just one step.converting to AgCl adds extra work and adds other stuff to the mix.


Thanks for the info Geo.

I'll try this method. Since I have plenty of mylars to work with, it's not a problem to do.

Also, from the siphoned solution, should I filter it first or save it for the next batch?

And what about the silver that already dropped to the bottom? Will that get picked up by the copper?


Kevin


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## Geo (Dec 23, 2012)

any silver powder thats dropped is either one of two types (silver chloride or silver oxide) and nether will be effected by the copper. i would just siphon or draw off the solution and cement from there and keep that separate from the other powder which needs to be further processed before melting. cemented silver can be melted and cast into anode bars for a thum cell or sell as is. if the silver was clean (no other type PM's) and the copper is clean, the cemented silver should be 99% to 99.5%. 99.5% is considered bullion grade.

the powder that dropped, GSP could tell you how to test if it is an oxide or chloride. if it were me, i would treat it all as a chloride just to be sure. that way, nothing gets left behind.


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## Pantherlikher (Dec 23, 2012)

I'll have to do a search again to find it but LaserSteve did a post on melting everything and pouring the melted mylars off to reduce the bulk down leaving concentrated silver. Any clue as to where it ended up? A possibility perhaps?.
It seemed like a great idea when I read it.

BS.
Wondering how many different mylars I'm finding in anything with a keypad...


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## Smack (Dec 24, 2012)

,./


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## Anonymous (Dec 24, 2012)

Smack said:


> Steve used a heat gun to melt and shrink them down without burning them, that was the first step anyway.


After using a heat gun, you then take a torch to it to burn the plastic away. I did one mylar like that so far, but I haven't concluded the results yet. I dedicated a melting dish to that mylar. I won't be using the dish for anything else. I may try one pound of mylars to see how it turns out.

Keep in mind that burning the mylars will produce smoke and soot, which is very toxic if you breathe it in. Make sure you do this outside. I wouldn't even do it under a fume hood if I had one because of all the soot that will come up.

Kevin


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## Anonymous (Dec 24, 2012)

I've been making progress, yet, I'm in need for some guidance.

*No# 1.* I tried the copper to drop the silver and it is phenomenal. It's so cool to look at the silver get attracted to the copper the way it does. On the humor side of this, it would have been nice if I knew that if that silver build up thick on the copper, it stands the chance of dropping off the copper like a piece of jelly or slime back into the solution. :shock: 

*No# 2.* I noticed that after I had scraped the silver off the copper and put it in a clean beaker, after about 30 minutes or so, it'll turn from the sludge/paste back to a liquid.

*No# 3.* In the first photo below, after filtering my solutions in the beaker, this is what is left. It looks like carbon. 
Question 1: Is that carbon?




*NO# 4.* I noticed that once the blob of silver dropped off the copper back into the rinse solution while trying to pull the copper out, it starts to dissolve within 30 minutes.
Question 2:What do I need to do to keep the silver from being redissolved once I take the copper out the jar and scraping the silver into the beaker?




*No# 5.* I have done a filter of the solution, but silver seem to drop to the bottom of the beaker.
Question 3: How do I collect the silver from the bottom of the beaker when the copper doesn't seem to collect it?




Thanks again for all the information and help. This is very exciting and I'm glad to be part of a loving and helping family here.

Kevin


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## Geo (Dec 24, 2012)

Kevin, you still have free nitric. dissolve more silver with it. you dont want to scrape the silver off the copper. dissolve silver until no more will dissolve even if you have to warm the solution to make it dissolve more. when you cement the silver, leave the copper in solution and let the silver fall off until no more action is seen. the solution will be blue. the silver will stay in elemental form.


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## Anonymous (Dec 24, 2012)

Geo said:


> Kevin, you still have free nitric. dissolve more silver with it. you dont want to scrape the silver off the copper. dissolve silver until no more will dissolve even if you have to warm the solution to make it dissolve more. when you cement the silver, leave the copper in solution and let the silver fall off until no more action is seen. the solution will be blue. the silver will stay in elemental form.


That's very informative *Geo*. I think I'm getting the gist of it now. Let me ask you.

Since the silver should just compile until it doesn't collect anymore, and the solution turns blue (which one of my beakers is doing now) should I return the scrapings into the solution and let it do its job, or should I leave the silver I scraped off in the beaker?

Thanks again for all your help *Geo*. My wife is amazed at what I'm doing. She is now calling me "*The Mad Scientist*".

I can say one more thing too.... None of what I'm doing is discouraging to me. I assume all risks, yet, I'm not doing this for just the money. It's for the experience of being able to do it. That is the pleasure of this for me. 

Ohhh,,, before I forget. I now notice a smell that smells like chlorine when I started using the copper. Is that what I'm smelling? I do have my front and back door open and the house is ventilated. It's not strong at all, but when I stand near the beakers, I can smell the chlorine (I think). 

Kevin


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## qst42know (Dec 26, 2012)

Don't process in your house!

Nitric acid doesn't belong in your house.

Don't process in your house!

Have you read the MSDS for nitric acid?

Your health is worth more than any amount of silver.


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## Smack (Dec 26, 2012)

Ohhh,,, before I forget. I now notice a smell that smells like chlorine when I started using the copper. Is that what I'm smelling? I do have my front and back door open and the house is ventilated. It's not strong at all, but when I stand near the beakers, I can smell the chlorine (I think). 

Classic....I wonder if you'll see 2013


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## Anonymous (Dec 26, 2012)

qst42know said:


> Don't process in your house!
> 
> Nitric acid doesn't belong in your house.
> 
> ...


I took it outside and will process there.




Smack said:


> Ohhh,,, before I forget. I now notice a smell that smells like chlorine when I started using the copper. Is that what I'm smelling? I do have my front and back door open and the house is ventilated. It's not strong at all, but when I stand near the beakers, I can smell the chlorine (I think).
> 
> Classic....I wonder if you'll see 2013


I wonder if I see the next day, anyway. Point taken. No more processing with Nitric or other acids inside. I also had my doors open and I have read the MSDS sheet on the Nitric. Prolonged exposure or enough of it is deadly, but I don't believe I exposed myself to it that much. I know any amount can do you in, but I just hope that I didn't do myself or my family any harm or damage.

The reason I say I thought I smelled chlorine is that I thought that the Nitric was being used up along with the copper and the silver, leaving my tap water smell in the jar. The smell was only right in the exact vicinity of the beakers, and not throughout the house or even a foot away from the beakers.

If I'm not here by 2013, it was my time to go, yet, if I do see 2013, I don't want to put my health at risk either. No more processing inside the house.

Kevin

*[UPDATE]*
Below is the link to the MSDS sheet on the Nitric Acid.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0183.htm


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## Geo (Dec 26, 2012)

what you were smelling is NO and/or NOx. a person can detect as little as 1ppm, 14 ppm is deadly. not alot of leeway. because the silver on mylars is so fine, the reaction is fast and somewhat subdued it happens quickly unless its really cold. solids react longer and create the red fumes you would recognize.heating the solution forces the acid to react longer and and more fiercely absorbing more silver. when it absorbs all it can at ambient temperature, heating will make it dissolve more.


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## qst42know (Dec 26, 2012)

Thanks Kevin.

Stay safe.


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## butcher (Dec 27, 2012)

Many of these fumes can be heavier than air, they could be filling your house with toxic acidic fumes at floor level (where you may not notice, you may also begin to notice metals in the area corroding after several days, some of the fumes from our solutions may not have that much smell (some can even smell somewhat sweet to us), others we can get to where we do not smell them any more after a little while, but this does not mean they will not cause us harm.

Kevin, do not take chances and stay safe, do not count on just your nose to tell your of dangers, use your brain also, how many tiny silver buttons would you be willing to trade for your health? Keep your health and the silver.


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## Anonymous (Dec 30, 2012)

Thanks to the insensitive comment


> Classic....I wonder if you'll see 2013


I had been wondering and worrying about my demise, yet, at the same time, I've done so much research about Nitric Acid, I can tell this much... 

* I learned a lesson that may have cost me myself and my family's health and (or) life. I'll never do any processing indoors. Period.
* I learned that one MSDS sheet on Nitric Acid and many other chemicals is NOT complete. I've found out more about nitric acid by reading more than one MSDS pdf file. 
* I learned that there are different exposures... inhaling the gases, vapors and (or) fumes. Skin contact. Ingestion (swallowing).
* I learned that there are red gas, brown gas, and white gas/smoke. Inhaling any of those are deadly.
* I leaned that there are ppm (parts per million) that are deadly, and from one of the MSDS sheets I read, it is between 2 - 24 ppm.
* I leaned that if you don't experience any symptoms within 48 hours of exposure, you more than likely haven't been exposed to much to cause you any harm. 

I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but when I started my nitric peroxide mix, I did it outside and I only had a total of 400ml mixture (200ml Nitric + 200ml Peroxide). By the time I bought it in the house from rinsing the mylars, I had a total of 1600ml, using tap water. So, it was diluted by 1200ml tap water. I know.. still, it's dangerous. 

Once I bought it in and started using the copper, that's when I started smelling the chlorine (or at least I thought it was) only in the direct vicinity of the beakers. No gases were in the air and no color or odors in the air. During all that time it was in the house while I was working and observing the process, I had all my doors open, and during that time, we had winds up to 40 mph and it was cold, even in the house. It wasn't room temp in here.

Although 2013 isn't here yet and I still may be doomed, but I have not a single symptom... and it's been approximately 5 days since I started with the copper inside. But, again, never again indoors for me.

On an ending note of the above, can I make a recommendation to all members here?

If you know that someone has done something to potentially harm him/herself, it will only add to their fears if you make comments that will put them into hysteria. *NEVER* make a person feel doomed, even if they are. People need to hear advice, not insensitive remarks about their mistakes. It does that person no good and they can't focus correctly and they might even do something foolish all because someone has told them that they might not even see the next day because of what they did. Guide them to where to call, where to go, actions to take. That might make the person feel a bit easier about their condition.

I indeed learned my lesson. I will also post in the safety section to the links to ALL the MSDS sheets I've downloaded so far. Because of my mistake, I learned about Nitric Acid in a way that I'll never forget. Again, I feel fine and have had no symptoms at all. There are three humans and 1 dog in here and no one has changed as of yet.

Below is from after sitting a few days outside now. The first picture is from after the copper being placed in the solution, yet, the beaker to the right isn't reacting anymore. The copper is still there. I did change it once before after it got dissolved. The beaker on the left, I had to add more copper today because the other piece dissolved, and it's cold outside right now too, so I know the reaction will be slow.










Thanks again for all the help and support.

Kevin


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## Smack (Dec 30, 2012)

Jar


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## Anonymous (Dec 30, 2012)

Smack said:


> Jar


I'm not sure what that mean.

Also, you taught me a lesson to be well learned. I'm am not upset with you or anyone here at all. It's all good.


Kevin

*[UPDATE]*
just looked for what it may mean.
From: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jar



> a : to make a harsh or discordant sound
> b : to have a harshly disagreeable or disconcerting effect
> c : to be out of harmony; specifically : bicker
> 2
> ...


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## butcher (Dec 30, 2012)

testerman, 

I do not think it is anyone's intentions to make anyone fear any thing except that which should be feared (or respected), like using acids indoors without a fume hood, I think you wrote a good post and I agree with most of it. 

I also believe there is no harm in telling someone that what they are doing is dangerous and they could kill themselves if they continued doing it.

Yelling stop do not keep going or you can die, to a man who is blindly walking towards a cliff may wake him up and help to save his life (if he gets scared and jumps well what can I say he may have just walked off the cliff anyways).

I think you need to look at the good intentions and concerns for your well being, and thank these guys for bringing this to your attention,(no matter how they yelled it), not try and make them think there was something wrong with yelling stop and using a strong enough words like they did to try get you to look further into where you were going.

To me a jar is a glass vessel, I am not sure what Smack was referring to but. I would not have thought any of those webster terms would apply.

Could he have meant to Jar you awake?

You did seem to wake up from that Jar.

I am sure he will explain what he meant.


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## Anonymous (Dec 30, 2012)

butcher said:


> testerman,
> 
> I do not think it is anyone's intentions to make anyone fear any thing except that which should be feared (or respected), like using acids indoors without a fume hood, I think you wrote a good post and I agree with most of it.
> 
> ...


Yes Indeed. I personally have to thank Smack for that comment. I'm sure he meant well, yet, I've been walking around here thinking "*Any day now, and I'm out of here*".

This has been an experience I'll never forget, and at the same time, I now know the exact respect Nitric Acid and any other chemicals need. No short cuts and no half-stepping or rushing. 

I can say this much too "This DID wake me up". For sure.

Much Love to all of you, especially you *Smack*, because I needed a smack on that one.

Kevin


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## butcher (Dec 30, 2012)

I forgot to mention your beakers of blue solution, looks like dollar signs cementing out of solution, looking good.


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## Pantherlikher (Dec 30, 2012)

Lookin like $$$ in your sites and looks like you'll see it in the end...
Anything on melting and pouring off excess mylars to cut down on them?..
I'm guessing it would take quite a while for silver to drop to the bottom before being able to pour the mylar out.

BS.
If you can smell it, RUN!


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## Anonymous (Dec 31, 2012)

butcher said:


> I forgot to mention your beakers of blue solution, looks like dollar signs cementing out of solution, looking good.


LOL... It looks like knowledge signs to me. :shock: Man, I'm so impressed with the knowledge here on this site. I really enjoy this.

I thank you so much *butcher* for the compliment. 



> Lookin like $$$ in your sites and looks like you'll see it in the end...
> Anything on melting and pouring off excess mylars to cut down on them?..
> I'm guessing it would take quite a while for silver to drop to the bottom before being able to pour the mylar out.
> 
> ...


Yes.. If I smell it... I'm running away as fast as I can. No joke.

I'm planning on doing my washing and drying tomorrow. I'm thinking about natural drying, but I do have a hot plate too. I'll post my results by the new year hopefully.

I thank all of you here on this forum. You've all made me a more responsible person, even though I should have been as responsible anyway. We live and we learn.... hopefully.


Kevin


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## Smack (Dec 31, 2012)

jar 
/jär/
Noun

A wide-mouthed, cylindrical container made of glass or pottery, esp. one used for storing food.


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## Anonymous (Dec 31, 2012)

Smack said:


> jar
> /jär/
> Noun
> 
> A wide-mouthed, cylindrical container made of glass or pottery, esp. one used for storing food.


Thank you Smack. And thank you for the stern warning you gave. Hopefully no one has to learn the hard way, as I almost did.

Kevin


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## Anonymous (Dec 31, 2012)

After placing the mylars in solution and rinsing them, do you have to let the solution settle overnight or can you add the copper immediately afterwards to drop the silver?


Kevin


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## Geo (Dec 31, 2012)

why would it have to settle? are there particulates floating in the solution? you can filter and cement as soon as its stripped.


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## Anonymous (Dec 31, 2012)

Geo said:


> why would it have to settle? are there particulates floating in the solution? you can filter and cement as soon as its stripped.


Thanks *Geo*... That's exactly what I wanted to know. 

So, that means that when I filter the solution, the silver will go through the filter because it's in liquid form back into the new filtered solution?'

If I clean the mylars as suggested before processing, do I still need to filter the solution?

Kevin


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## Geo (Jan 1, 2013)

you should filter every type solution before you precipitate and especially if you see something floating around in it. your final product is only as clean as the solution you are starting out with.


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 2013)

Geo said:


> you should filter every type solution before you precipitate and especially if you see something floating around in it. your final product is only as clean as the solution you are starting out with.


Point Made.

Watch what I'll be showing today in the "Gallery" section of the forum. It's not much, but it's a job well done.

*Geo*, Love you bro. Thanks for your help and inspiration. 

Kevin


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## Anonymous (Jan 3, 2013)

Look what I did!

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=16774&p=169525#p169525

Kevin


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