# To Harold



## ffallan (Oct 27, 2011)

Hi, Howard, Palladium and all those that have replied to my jibberish. I don't remember all of your code names. UPDATE: I have large amounts of gold here unless the stannous lies? I bought the tin from Lazersteve, thanks for helping me! I wasn't sure of my solders metal content. As I progressed deeper into my solutions/material the brown went to blue and now purple/violet. I dropped out a test size of 2 gallons of solution. The gold looks like there is about 5 big kitchen spoonfuls of gold mud in the bottom rim of a 5 gallon bucket. I could have kept processing and had the same result but its really is nice to be able to predict the outcome, and know I can stop trying to find it if it isn't there. But who knows with what I was doing I could have found a new metal not yet discovered to man but deadly just to look at. I want to thank all of you that put your time into the forum, I know I have learned some things here. 
I posted on the general chat forum and met a couple of real nice guys. (NOT) then they said they would tell an administrator on me after they attacked my post. Its titled, "too good to be true",I flagged the post unfriendly deck. Maybe the administrator can investigate who has nothing nice to say. I will post pics when I melt some powder. If I go by the book I should have an unlimited supply of this stuff. The material I start with is full of metals, I concentrate the metals and wash out the dirt. I start with Sluice, pick, shovel, blasting, classifiers, Gallons upon gallons of water, etc,. I have put much work into it, however, the Au is attached to sulfides and Ag, Thats why its been taking a while, i DON'T KNOW IF i WANT TO GO AFTER THE SILVER or sell that material to a commercial refiner? I wouldn't be surprised if there is platinum and palladium too? I have pictures of Stannous colors from different levels of concentrations, i'm using three buckets, I have more of this material I just kept concentrating over the last few months, it looks like i'm on to something!... if anyone is interested in the stannous colors from my solutions I can post them, I don't want to post pics if nobody wants to see. Just thought I would let you Gentlemen/Ladies know where I'm at in the process and looks good if I don't screw up. I am a little excited just from the colors of the stannous. I can't thank you guys enough.


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## eeTHr (Oct 27, 2011)

Everyone likes to see pictures of starting materials, people's processing setups, resulting powders, stannous tests, and melted button or bars.

There is always something for people to learn from others' work.

So post away---the more pictures, the better, I think.

I can't answer for Harold, though.


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## Palladium (Oct 27, 2011)

I wouldn’t mind seeing the test. Do you have a torch? Try melting a small sample and see what it looks like.


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## ffallan (Oct 27, 2011)

OK, I will figure this phone out and get them on when I do. Its still under water but you can bet im going to be torching it, very exciting chemistry. I just wish it was warmer so the chemicals would work. I use 2 crock pots for keeping it warm but I have very much of this stuff, I need about 10 crock pots because it helps concentrate the gold I have found. Its just easier to condense than try to work with 15 gallons of diluted solution, I don't let it go dry just til about 2 inches of thick metals and acid. Some of the stannous test on the solution shows no color until its more concentrated...naturally this happens as everyone knows I'm sure. On the crock pots top and all through the solution is a thick white crust. Is that the Ag? its definitely a salt I know that. It turns the stannous test blue. I have been putting it into a container so its just all salts and some solution covering it. I think I can make some money doing this. Now to just get the mud/metal salts to a metal! One thing at a time...


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## Harold_V (Oct 27, 2011)

As much as it pains me to have done so, this person was banned from the forum. I am not averse to his being reinstated, but only with the idea in mind that he learn to address his fellow readers with respect. We can't have folks on the forum that keep things off balance. 

I am open to comments from readers, regardless of your position in this matter. Needless to say, be mannerly. 

Harold


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## nickvc (Oct 27, 2011)

Harold I don't think you had much choice here.
I think it's a shame when anyone gets banned but I still believe we need to maintain an orderly way of communicating with each other, with good manners and respect. By all means disagree with posts and threads but be polite and refrain from name calling like kids in the playground and post with the best descriptions and English possible so our many members who aren't English speakers by birth can understand and follow the discussions.
This is the place to be to learn refining and it's a privilege to be here not a right!


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## qst42know (Oct 27, 2011)

I expect he will be back, but with a better attitude. 

When he does I hope he understands it's hard to help someone when they won't get to the point, or the issue is spread among several threads.


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## Anonymous (Oct 27, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> I am open to comments from readers, regardless of your position in this matter.


Although I was not the one that requested he be banned,it would have only been a matter of time before I did.I can deal with him being harsh at Harold,we all know Harold WILL take care of him,however I will not allow him to act like that to Ralph or Pat. He did not offer an apology,instead he started this new thread "To Harold",and I have yet to figure out what he was getting at here.I am not opposed to having him come back,as long as he minds himself,and contributes,or tries to learn.


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## jimdoc (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree with his departure. If he returns, he will have to understand the simple rules of this forum.
And if he strays from these rules, his next departure should be permanent. If he is truly intent on learning this "hobby" then an attitude adjustment would be in his best interest to stay here and learn.
If he wants to keep his bad attitude then he should be on his own, good luck with that.

Jim


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## Claudie (Oct 27, 2011)

The guy was begging to be banned. Insulting members, calling names, refusing to apologize, and acting like the forum owed him something. Hopefully he will learn from this experience, come back with some manners and respect, and become a valuable part of the forum.


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## patnor1011 (Oct 27, 2011)

I feel little bit sorry for him. Let me explain. Firstly from what he wrote here so far I do believe he will be better off on some mining forum. He need help but it seems to me he is not going to accept anything what is even slightly different from his beliefs. Note post where he stated he may found some metal not yet discovered or unknown to man in bottom of his bucket. He simply put way too much of effort in something what he want to believe in. All this effort and not any single assay of material he work on. 
When we work on electronic or karat scrap we at least know what is in there, while he work with some ore or ore concentrates where he cant have a clue what is in there without proper assay. 
I do read every single post on this forum. It takes a lot of time but I do not complain as it gives me opportunity to learn. I reacted how I reacted solely because that new thread was nonsense. Imagine yourself going to shopping center where all units will be empty with staff telling you we have unlimited supply of stuff but don't know what and maybe we will start selling later (or something like that).
He was getting answers he didn't like on his first thread so he just deleted few posts. Another thread which was mutilated by poster so anyone coming and reading it will be left with nothing just time wasted and confusing statements. That is main reason why I asked him purpose of that new thread as I have seen his previous one with posts he deleted. 
I don't mind having him back, I don't even expect apology that kind of comments do not offend me. What I am sure about is that I do not look forward to read or think too much about his future posts until he takes some time and start thinking not dreaming.


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## Palladium (Oct 27, 2011)

Yeah i tried to have patience with him myself. Maybe he just has issues. :roll: 

Moving on now..........


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## Geo (Oct 27, 2011)

at first i thought it was a language problem but as he kept posting i realized that even though he was asking for help he wasnt seeming to accept the help or advise given like he had a preconceived notion of what the answer should be. he did seem excited and expected us to be excited with him that he finally stumbled upon some little sucess.


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## Harold_V (Oct 27, 2011)

Geo said:


> at first i thought it was a language problem but as he kept posting i realized that even though he was asking for help he wasnt seeming to accept the help or advise given like he had a preconceived notion of what the answer should be.


I have been moderating for just a couple months shy of ten years. Needless to say, it's not on this forum, for it isn't that old. 

My point is that in my many years of trying to be helpful in an area where I may have some expertise, one of the issues I have encountered is where an individual is not seeking guidance, but support. As you suggested, they have a preconceived notion on what they expect as an outcome, so anything that doesn't support their hopes (and often dreams) is looked upon as something negative-----as if you are, somehow, trying to bring them down. It's a damned shame they take that attitude, for in some cases you can save an individual a tremendous amount of wasted time and grief.

Having stated my thoughts, the next issue I'd like to address is the one whereby a person fancies him/herself as being creative---that they're quite sure they're on the threshold of the latest and greatest concept. Problem is, they tend to ignore sound principles of physics-----laws that man has observed, not created. They're bound to fail---but they won't have their dream taken from them. 

In such a case---what to do?

I'm all for inviting this gentleman back, with the understanding that we speak in clear, concise English on this forum, to the best of our ability, and we do not insult our fellow readers. If he can display the manners he has learned as a military person, there's no reason why he can't co-exist with all of us. 

Harold


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## eeTHr (Oct 27, 2011)

I was seeing red flags all over the place with this guy, but they were so subtle, that I thought he just might be on the level. I guess others thought so too, because they did try patiently to help him.

But then I started seeing his different threads showing up, and the confusing way he was communicating---I wasn't sure if he was asking for help, or just trying to convince others that he knew all about everything to begin with. Or was he trying to sell his "wonderful" concentrates, after attempting to establish himself as some kind of ore guru who had just struck it rich?

Very confusing, to say the least. Wow. :shock:

I do know that con artists will get angry if you don't buy in to their game. So when in doubt, I politely ask a few simple but realistic questions, and see which way they go. It's not fair to jump to conclusions, but I have doubts about the guy. ...Just sayin'.


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## niteliteone (Oct 27, 2011)

To me, IMHO, he sounded like a meth head. Only an example.
If he is taking medications for his past ailments that might be of some explanation for the eradic ramblings he had.
Just an opinion.
Tom C.


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## Smack (Oct 28, 2011)

Guess I would have to read his other post to find the disrespect. It's easy to forget how it was when you first started, I have not. Most of us that have been doing it for a while and have had good results look at the noob's in a whole different way from how you acted when you were a noob. Empathy can be a stretch I understand. But these people are excited and instead of going off on them like I have seen, maybe just point them in the right direction like Hokes book and leave it at that. Then someone else will chime in and tell them don't expect us to hold your hand you need to do your research or something of that nature but all a comment like that does is escalate the persons frustration. And when someone want's to know something in this GOTTA HAVE IT NOW SOCIETY we live in and they get a less than constructive comment you could expect a knee jerk reaction. I know that's not the right thing for them to do but at the same time they have not had the same amount of time to calm down that we have. I've done a bunch of reading here and have taken the bad with the good and averaged it out to an overall good forum, information and ego wise. The stuff I don't care for goes in one eye and out the other.

Steve


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## patnor1011 (Oct 28, 2011)

Smack said:


> Guess I would have to read his other post to find the disrespect. It's easy to forget how it was when you first started, I have not. Most of us that have been doing it for a while and have had good results look at the noob's in a whole different way from how you acted when you were a noob. Empathy can be a stretch I understand. But these people are excited and instead of going off on them like I have seen, maybe just point them in the right direction like Hokes book and leave it at that. Then someone else will chime in and tell them don't expect us to hold your hand you need to do your research or something of that nature but all a comment like that does is escalate the persons frustration. And when someone want's to know something in this GOTTA HAVE IT NOW SOCIETY we live in and they get a less than constructive comment you could expect a knee jerk reaction. I know that's not the right thing for them to do but at the same time they have not had the same amount of time to calm down that we have. I've done a bunch of reading here and have taken the bad with the good and averaged it out to an overall good forum, information and ego wise. The stuff I don't care for goes in one eye and out the other.
> 
> Steve



You are right and that was exactly what happened. He was nicely pointed to right direction several times by quite a few members. Try to go through all his posts and threads.


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## TobyRoby (Nov 5, 2011)

I feel like you responded appropriately. I am a noob, been silently watching and reading for several months now. I desperately want to succeed as we all do. I understand when you constantly recite "READ, READ, READ". Read is what I have chosen to do. I have had marginal success. I still have some solutions to recoup. I for one thank you for all you do and the advice you give. One day, hopefully soon, I will be a much better participant.

Thanks for all of the good advice.


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## Harold_V (Nov 5, 2011)

TobyRoby said:


> I feel like you responded appropriately. I am a noob, been silently watching and reading for several months now. I desperately want to succeed as we all do. I understand when you constantly recite "READ, READ, READ". Read is what I have chosen to do. I have had marginal success. I still have some solutions to recoup. I for one thank you for all you do and the advice you give. One day, hopefully soon, I will be a much better participant.
> 
> Thanks for all of the good advice.


You're welcome. 
One of the things that becomes very obvious as you progress, is that refining, especially gold, is not difficult. If you follow instructions well, and understand what to do, when to do it, and why it's done----it quickly becomes routine. It is for that reason I continue to stress reading ---especially Hoke---where you learn terminology and testing, and come to understand the way each of the metals behaves. Once you have that knowledge, you can make decisions on what to do, and how it should be done. Until such a time, everything seems to be complicated.

Welcome aboard. I appreciate your support, but most of all, I appreciate your attitude. 

Harold


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## Claudie (Nov 6, 2011)

Nice looking button Toby! Well done.


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## butcher (Nov 6, 2011)

TobyRoby , only two posts? and gold button too boot, we all need to take your advice.


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## TobyRoby (Nov 13, 2011)

Ha! I am not qualified to give any advice, yet. I can share some thoughts though.

1. I have made, and I am STILL making all of the mistakes that the other newbies are making. But it is my nature to be pretty much non-functional unless I understand my actions and why I do them.

2. I am way too lax on taking notes. I have a tendancy to log only my successes not failures.

3. I am often too impatient.

4. I have two gallons of solution that I need to recover. Often I think that I understand something so I am constantly trying to work with more than I need to in a learning environment. This always results in way too much time evaporating and then not succeeding.

5. I have spent way too much effort with nitric acid I believe. Acid peroxide is much more suited to my needs. I have begun to concentrate on this more. 

If I were to ask a question at this point in time, I would ask for evaporation tips. I wonder if Hoke's idea of a syrup is a bit different than my own. I would like to see a photo of someone's point in evaporation that they add HCl.

This little adventure has been extremely fascinating and I have no intention of failing. Therefore, I must read and I must understand. I cannot expect anyone to do this for me.


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