# What about "The other PGM's"?



## nwinther (Thursday at 4:27 AM)

When reading the forum, Gold and Silver takes up most of the attention, followed by Platinum and Palladium. Sometimes Iridium gets a mention and even less so, Rhodium.
But two PGM's are hardly ever mentioned: Ruthenium and Osmium.
So what gives?

Gold and silver are obvious leaders, as it's readily available (relatively) and fairly easy to recover/refine. The PGM's as a group being harder to refine and in less supply makes them obvious step-children. But why are Osmium and Ruthenium never discussed? They should be as abundant in, say, old silver as Iridium and Rhodium (maybe even more so) and command extremely high prices. They should (intuitively) be present in many a silver/PGM stock pot.

If it's because they are difficult to refine, I'd still expect someone out there who's cracked the code, sending out calls for PGM "wastes" or residues (whatever is left after the competent (hobby?) refiner has recovered/refined the Palladium and Platinum or even the Rhodium and Iridium)?

Happy New Year, by the way.


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## Yggdrasil (Thursday at 4:50 AM)

nwinther said:


> When reading the forum, Gold and Silver takes up most of the attention, followed by Platinum and Palladium. Sometimes Iridium gets a mention and even less so, Rhodium.
> But two PGM's are hardly ever mentioned: Ruthenium and Osmium.
> So what gives?
> 
> ...


The obvious reasons are:
Scarcity, though not in ores more than Ir and Rh I guess, but in products. They are simply not used much.
Toxicity, they are both extremely volatile and toxic, so much that most refineries won't even touch them.
Reason two commands highly specialized setups, often even sections dedicated to these metals.
This is probably a very rudimentary and simplified reasoning, but it should give some ideas.
A search for Osmium and Ruthenium tetra oxide will also give some ideas.


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## Lino1406 (Thursday at 4:53 AM)

nwinther said:


> When reading the forum, Gold and Silver takes up most of the attention, followed by Platinum and Palladium. Sometimes Iridium gets a mention and even less so, Rhodium.
> But two PGM's are hardly ever mentioned: Ruthenium and Osmium.
> So what gives?
> 
> ...


Reasons: both metals produce oxides in air, some of which are volatile and toxic especially osmium which is held under argon and, there is no demand


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## orvi (Thursday at 8:24 AM)

nwinther said:


> When reading the forum, Gold and Silver takes up most of the attention, followed by Platinum and Palladium. Sometimes Iridium gets a mention and even less so, Rhodium.
> But two PGM's are hardly ever mentioned: Ruthenium and Osmium.
> So what gives?
> 
> ...


Ruthenium could be found in metal oxide resistors alongside silver. But it´s refining is very complicated due to very nature and chemistry of Ru. Very very insoluble in acids, only possible way how to get it into solution with let´s say less trouble is basic oxidative melt/smelt. 

These metals are very difficult to sell, because demand is very focused, and streams are scarce. Toxicity of these metal salts is very high, with volatile oxides of OsO4 and RuO4 being very, very nasty stuff, unforgiving. Causing quick blindeness and even death.

So no, Ru and Os aren´t present in stockpots. With acidic processing, they won´t even dissolve. And to the osmium - there is little to no osmium in basic scrap or appliances. Only special applications.


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