# E-Scrap to .999 - The journey



## MMFJ (Aug 9, 2012)

This thread is for detailing the steps taken on one 'larger' lot (more than most on the forum typically do at one time) of various e-scrap items collected by dismantling computers and other industrial e-waste. The lot contains 77 lbs of e-scrap, consisting of different ceramic processors, near-full-plate boards, fingers, pins, parts and more - all being processed to recover and refine into .999 gold.

Note that, while the steps and procedures may exactly fit your particular scenario, they may also vary quite differently, as presenting a "step-by-step" process on such a wide range of material is nearly impossible (as can be seen by the thousands of posts on the forum!)

This thread is for an attempt at a "complete loop" scenario of everything that goes on in a MIX of e-scrap items from a 'collector' ('processor' or 'disassembler' some call it) that is sent off to another person to further separate, process and refine to near-pure (i.e., untested) gold and then on to a further refining and acknowledgement of ".999 certified gold" with documentation and certificates, etc.

*AND, ALL THIS DONE UNDER A TIME CRUNCH *:!: 

It starts with various collected/processed e-scrap items;
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=15116&p=152866#p152866 <== gold cap ceramic cpu chips

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15047&p=152093#p152093 <= near full plate boards

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=15035&p=151928#p151928 <= nice gold boards

as well as a few pounds of fingers taken from computer, 'vintage' and 'military' cards, several pounds of gold-plated pins (of many sizes and shapes, etc) and various other gold bearing scrap material (boards, bits, connectors - basically anything that is gold plated!)

Here's a video of the start process - getting everything together in a box - final total weight 77 pounds!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJ4dbp-_PE[/youtube]
Now, we wait for delivery, then, the FUN begins!


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## joem (Aug 9, 2012)

Where is all this mixture of items going that they can refine all and return gold


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## cnbarr (Aug 9, 2012)

Hi Joem,

I was trying to let everyone know earlier in the day that I will be the one refining this lot for MMFJ, I've been tied for most of the day, but I'm here now.

The package should be arriving by tomorrow evening, I am going to do my best to document the entire process with pictures and a few videos. So I am hoping, not so much for a tutorial, but an overview of refining a lot of diverse material simultaneously. It will definitely be a challenge, as well as interesting, 77lbs of assorted material is not the average lot of scrap for the home/hobby refiner.

I hope this can be an informative learning process for many of the members as well as myself!


edited for grammatical errors.


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## Geo (Aug 9, 2012)

i can tell you now that if your not used to keeping track of many things at once its a hard thing to do. i found i didnt have enough equipment and that was just with 12 pounds. ive since added a double burner and bought a starter set of beakers and bought another 4 coffee pots.


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## lazersteve (Aug 9, 2012)

The key to doing larger lots is to be methodical in your inventory, notes, and processing.

First in first out (FIFO) works well on larger lots. Process each part of the batch to completion then move to the next. If you try to run all of it at once, you'll end up running out of space, beakers, or possibly getting confused as to which bucket/beaker/batch corresponds to which yields. 

Keep excellent notes on customer information, weights; including starting weight, clean weight, gold yields, silver yields (if any), chemicals used, waste created, time spent on each batch, and left junk over weights. These numbers will help you streamline the chemicals used and the best methods to tackle similar future lots. These numbers will also help you determine your actual costs to process the lot.

Lastly taking lots of photos helps you by providing visual record of the lot before, during, and after processing.

Eat the elephant one bite at a time.

Steve


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## cnbarr (Aug 9, 2012)

Geo said:


> i can tell you now that if your not used to keeping track of many things at once its a hard thing to do. i found i didnt have enough equipment and that was just with 12 pounds. ive since added a double burner and bought a starter set of beakers and bought another 4 coffee pots.



I completely understand I have had 6-8 different reactions going at once, and it does get quite difficult to micro manage yourself. So I will have at least one or two assistants here to help me maintain everything as well as to meet the timetable for completion. I do have three double burners and many 4000ml and 6000ml beakers as well as an assortment of every size under that.

This will be a challenge that I am more then up for and I hope the forum will be here to ride this train with me!


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## MMFJ (Aug 9, 2012)

cnbarr said:


> This will be a challenge that I am more then up for and I hope the forum will be here to ride this train with me!


I'll certainly be interested in keeping tabs....


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## cnbarr (Aug 9, 2012)

Hey Steve,

That was the thought process I've started to work out in my head, although you stated it in greater detail then my brain did. I always find your posts methodical and insightful!

But the first in first out with a preprocess and recovery rotation is exactly what I have in mind.

And MMFJ, I sure hope you keep tabs it is your material! I will do my best to stay current as I work through everything, and you feel free to call me at any time with any questions, you have my number. :mrgreen:


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## glondor (Aug 9, 2012)

This sounds like it should be a contest. : ) My rule of thumb for large mixed batches Is start with what you know well first and progress to the next well known material, and so on. Gives you time to work out processes for the less common material and do the prep work for it. Second rule of thumb, don't bang your head trying to work out a "better" process for something you know is not worth it in the end. Good luck with it Chris! If you need any help, just give me a shout. I guess 77 grams 8)


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## cnbarr (Aug 9, 2012)

glondor said:


> This sounds like it should be a contest. : ) My rule of thumb for large mixed batches Is start with what you know well first and progress to the next well known material, and so on. Gives you time to work out processes for the less common material and do the prep work for it. Second rule of thumb, don't bang your head trying to work out a "better" process for something you know is not worth it in the end. Good luck with it Chris! If you need any help, just give me a shout. I guess 77 grams 8)



Hey mike,
You are right on the contest, unfortunately I don't have an excess of material right now to make that an option!

And I will try my best not to bang my head against the wall, ha ha :lol: , thanks for your inspiration I'm glad to know you and think of you as a friend. Oh and anyone who doesn't know, glondor is good people as well as a great refiner, he's the shirt off his back kind of guy, thanks man!


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## MMFJ (Aug 10, 2012)

cnbarr said:


> glondor said:
> 
> 
> > This sounds like it should be a contest. : ) My rule of thumb for large mixed batches Is start with what you know well first and progress to the next well known material, and so on. Gives you time to work out processes for the less common material and do the prep work for it. Second rule of thumb, don't bang your head trying to work out a "better" process for something you know is not worth it in the end. Good luck with it Chris! If you need any help, just give me a shout. I guess 77 grams 8)
> ...


OK, contest is ON!!! http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=15162
(boy, this sure better be a good load!


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## cnbarr (Aug 10, 2012)

I just got a call from my wife and she informed me that the package has arrived. I'll post some pictures when I get home and get it unpacked and organized.


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## cnbarr (Aug 11, 2012)

Here is a little video I made of the material MMFJ sent me to process. Sorry if the quality is bad I'm not the best with a camera or youtube.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SAwmi2MKdc&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Edit: just figured out how to embed a video!


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## ericrm (Aug 11, 2012)

hahahaha that is gonna be a lot to chew ,i dosent wish to be in your shoe... well in fact i am i have the same stuff at my home but i doesnt have the responsibility :lol: :lol: :lol: 

good luck


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## cnbarr (Aug 11, 2012)

It's a bit to chew on but I have strong teeth! I think the most difficult stuff will be the small bits and pieces and small chunks of boards with pins.


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## MMFJ (Aug 11, 2012)

That 'greyhound' is actually a custom made Doberman, made for a breeder of a world champ. I got it as part of an estate sale from her son, who believes this and some other pieces were made to 'hide' a good amount of gold. We can see on the leg that the piece is plated, but it is pretty thick. If possible, I'd like to see what that piece does by itself....

Charred boards - that was from the guy I bought the load of near-full-plate boards from. He told me "I was gonna refine this myself, but I found it got too hard!" - wonder if this is what he meant..... (if so, no doubt it was not too successful!) :lol: 

At 2:05, be sure to break off those round, black ceramic bits - NICE under there!

The boxes were a 'bonus' for you - figured you could use them for something - storing all your gold in all the different sizes, if nothing else! ;O

3:34 Garbage??? Be sure to check those thin strips? I'm pretty sure you will find they are plated, though I could be mistaken. Also, all the little brown strips contain tiny gold wires....


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## cnbarr (Aug 11, 2012)

I just found loaf of alloy, it weighs 137g, I wonder what's in it?


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## MMFJ (Aug 11, 2012)

cnbarr said:


> I just found loaf of alloy, it weighs 137g, I wonder what's in it?


That's the one I told you about - the guy I got it from says they melted "pure gold" and "copper" (please don't ask...... :lol: - that's all I can say about it...

Would be interesting to know if it has anything real in it (there's two more "loafs" I can get....)


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## cnbarr (Aug 11, 2012)

MMFJ said:


> That 'greyhound' is actually a custom made Doberman, made for a breeder of a world champ. I got it as part of an estate sale from her son, who believes this and some other pieces were made to 'hide' a good amount of gold. We can see on the leg that the piece is plated, but it is pretty thick. *If possible, I'd like to see what that piece does by itself....*
> 
> Charred boards - that was from the guy I bought the load of near-full-plate boards from. He told me "I was gonna refine this myself, but I found it got too hard!" - wonder if this is what he meant..... (if so, no doubt it was not too successful!) :lol:
> 
> ...


*
*

The dog I will process alone, I am curious myself.

Unfortunately, the garbage is just that, garbage. They are all copper plated and copper in the brown ribbons.

And thank for the boxes I already have a use for them.


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## poudouche (Aug 11, 2012)

Hi 
I read your posting , please advise if you would be interested to process cellphones boards on a regular basis ,This will be uniform rather than a mix of different gold bearing materials
what will be your conditions so we can start an experiment as soon as you will be available Which quantity of pounds of clean cell phone boards can you handle how long it will take like for 50 pounds , 100 pounds or bigger lots
please advise
poudouche


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## ericrm (Aug 11, 2012)

poudouche may i ask you how much value in gold you think or know(nothing badly said here), that there is in one lbs of cellephone board


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## cnbarr (Aug 11, 2012)

poudouche said:


> Hi
> I read your posting , please advise if you would be interested to process cellphones boards on a regular basis ,This will be uniform rather than a mix of different gold bearing materials
> what will be your conditions so we can start an experiment as soon as you will be available Which quantity of pounds of clean cell phone boards can you handle how long it will take like for 50 pounds , 100 pounds or bigger lots
> please advise
> poudouche



My honest advise would be, if you have access to that large of a quantity of cell boards on a regular basis, you would be far better served to outright sell them or send them to a large refiner ARA or NTR. to have them refined.


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## MMFJ (Aug 13, 2012)

After just getting off (another - I've lost count...) phone call with cnbarr, I just want to say that he has been in 'near constant' contact with me, either with PMs or phone calls, as well as the public updates you have seen here.

Time will tell how good a refiner he is (of which I have no doubts, btw), but as a *COMMUNICATOR of what is going on*, step by step along the way, I could not ask for more.

I can tell you from experience, there are those that show no commitment to this, which is, in my opinion (as the one taking the biggest risk in trusting a 'stranger' with all my hard-earned gold bits), one of, if not the, most important parts of doing refining for others. 

cnbarr has made me feel comfortable in all this, and I just wanted to acknowledge that.


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## cnbarr (Aug 13, 2012)

Hey Everyone,
Just a little update on my progress so far, I made a little video again,
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMIDc4nCtNk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Does anyone ever make a video, then watch it and say "damn I sound like an idiot?" or is it just me?

Oh, and thank you MMFJ for the kind words, I learned at a young age that "communication is key" whether it good or bad news. And thanks GFR I look forward to the comments.


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## mjgraham (Aug 13, 2012)

cnbarr said:


> Does anyone ever make a video, then watch it and say "damn I sound like an idiot?" or is it just me?


Not just you, I try my best not to have to talk or do timelapse videos...


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## MMFJ (Aug 13, 2012)

cnbarr said:


> Does anyone ever make a video, then watch it and say "damn I sound like an idiot?" or is it just me?


I've done hundreds of recordings, and was even on the air as a DJ many (oh, MANY....  years ago.

Guess, what, you do get better with practice - but you never stop sounding like an idiot to yourself (though I'd have to say other than the pauses and the cigarette...., this video was pretty good)


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## CBentre (Aug 13, 2012)

Hey this is one of the best threads I've followed in my short history here and must say well done. You'd almost want to refer to it as a documentary type setting. Hope this experiment works out well for the both of you. Entertainment with results, can't get any better then that.


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## Geo (Aug 14, 2012)

i would definitely use AP on the boards. if i can make a suggestion. i would form the copper chloride from clean copper and refrain from adding peroxide to the boards.make the copper chloride like you were doing the boards,but add a piece of copper pipe or other clean piece until the solution is nice and green. stop the bubbler and remove any copper thats left and gently add the boards to keep from splashing or spilling. dont add any more peroxide. start the bubbler.the gold should come off in nice big sheets.


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## etack (Aug 14, 2012)

If you like the stripping cell it could be done in a few hours with that. I don't like the cell all that much. So I don't use mine that much, but it's all my material and I have time.

Eric


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## cnbarr (Aug 19, 2012)

Hey everyone,
Sorry for the slow update, I've been tied up in the shop with very little time to get away, But here is my progress report.

I have got all the plated boards processed, there was 23.6lbs combined with the large and small boards, and of that there were 4.2lbs that were just copper plated.





The yield on these boards were far less then I had anticipated, I based my surface area calculations on the plating being 10 micro inches, which would have been just under a gram per pound, but it was actually about half that. You can see in the photo how thin the plating really is when copper is showing through. :roll:


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## cnbarr (Aug 19, 2012)

I have made it through most of the cpu's, there was a total cpu weight of 22.4lbs, with 14.2lbs of them being assorted ceramic cpu's, 4.2lbs black fiber, and 3lbs mixed green fiber. I've processed and precipitated 9.5lbs of the ceramics in four separate batches, first with a nitric bath, then into AR. I current have the last two batches of ceramic cpu's in a nitric bath, and two batches that are settling after precipitating. Here is a picture of the recovered powders so far.



Of the ceramic cpu's they produced 317.8g of plated lids that were dissolved to completion in nitric and foils were recovered and added to a beaker of foils recovered from 2.4lbs of plated pins.




I still have a batch of fingers and bits and pieces of plated material to process, once I've recovered all the foils, I will run them through AR and precipitate to combine into one beaker to wash and refine.

Sorry if things sound kind of jumbled, I have been multitasking for a solid week because my helpers bailed out on me, so I'm finding it difficult to focus my writing on one topic. Please feel free to comment and ask questions if you would like more in depth detail about what I've done or processes I've used?


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## cnbarr (Aug 19, 2012)

Oh and I am also collecting all the silver chloride, into one jar, from all the nitric baths.


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## MMFJ (Aug 19, 2012)

GREAT STUFF!!! 

Now, for all you 'guessers' out there, be sure you have made your guess in the CONTEST (with nice prizes, I think...... 
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=15162&p=153518&hilit=.999+the+contest#p153518


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## MMFJ (Aug 19, 2012)

Just got a call from cnbarr......

He lives in an area very near the WILDFIRES that are happening right now and he told me they are LESS THAN 2 MILES FROM HIS HOUSE!!!

He was explaining to me that, should the winds shift, there would likely be an evacuation in his area and he had his plan;
1. To get his wife and son out safely (no doubt!)
2. To grab anything that is still in solution and get it out (dedicated, but really????)

As we were talking, I heard a siren in the background, then the phone went dead and I haven't heard anything again.

It doesn't sound good, no matter what (he said he was going to send a picture of the FLAMES he could see over the tops of the houses) - I told him to GET OUT, but he was waiting until an evacuation was called.....

I only hope he and his family are safe! 

Not suggesting anything political or religious, but those so inclined, please consider sending a good thought for their safety.


EDIT: 7:04 PM - I did get a text from him - with a picture of the smoke (couldn't see any flames, but it is a small phone pic...) that is just over the top of a neighbor's house, with the comment that the fire is still 0% contained.


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## joem (Aug 19, 2012)

Sending all the good thoughts I am able to turn those flames back away from the houses


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## maynman1751 (Aug 20, 2012)

Praying for the safety of you and your family ........ and your property!


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## cnbarr (Aug 20, 2012)

Hey, thank you for the kind words and thoughts!

The fire is only 5% contained at this point, with the steep terrain they can only fight it by air, but the winds have kept the fire moving away from any houses.

So we're in the clear for now, thanks again!


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## Geo (Aug 20, 2012)

Glad to hear it. i thought about it all night since i saw MMFJ post about it.


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## cnbarr (Aug 20, 2012)

Hey Geo,
thank you I do appreciate it, the fire so far is not a threat to any homes, but the national forest is definitely being brutalized!

Thank you all for the well wishes!!!


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## butcher (Aug 21, 2012)

cnbarr, 

I know how stressfull those fires can be when they are close to your home, this fire came close to burning my property, fire line less than a mile from my home, hot cinders falling into my property, which is well maintained for fire danger. 

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=bisquit+fire&rlz=1R2RNQN_enUS457&oq=bisquit+fire&gs_l=hp.3..0i10l10.14657.20250.1.29922.12.12.0.0.0.3.1766.13452.3-1j0j1j2j5j3.12.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.zhB_slY4UII&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=581af0f994761529&biw=1024&bih=583


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## Rodthrower18 (Aug 21, 2012)

Glad all is well cnbarr. Praying for this thing to finally get taken under control. Continue to stay safe my friend.


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## cnbarr (Aug 23, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the well wishes, the fire was 75% contained as of yesterday, and no injuries or casualties. So as far as a fire goes you can't get much better then that.

Thanks again,
Chris


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## cnbarr (Aug 24, 2012)

Hey everyone,

So last night I finished up MMFJ's material with a second refine of the powders I collected through out the whole process, (wipes sweat from forehead) that was a long two weeks. Sorry I wasn't more diligent about staying updated, it was definitely hard to break away, but here is a few pictures during the washing and drying,


The silver weighed in at 39.3g




I'm pretty proud of this one, those are some sexy balls, I was trying to compete with butchers balls! (if your new and haven't read through the forum this won't make sense to you yet.)


and the final weight 47.6g, it was a little less then I had anticipated, but the plated boards were not as good as I had thought. But for being done in two weeks time I am happy with the results. I have not melted the powder yet, MMFJ and I are still looking into options to have the purity certified before we decide the melt.

Any comments, thoughts, or questions would be great?

Thanks,
Chris


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## Rodthrower18 (Aug 24, 2012)

Chris that is some good looking stuff you got there my friend! I long for the day when my batches of stuff will have those types of yields.


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## maynman1751 (Aug 24, 2012)

Wowser! Nice job Chris! 8)


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## MMFJ (Aug 24, 2012)

Looks nice!

I am looking forward to the 'shiny stuff' in hand as well! 8) 

For all following this thread, THE CONTEST IS OVER!!! 

Yep, seems odd, with only one part of the results in, but strangely enough, it is..... http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=15162

Thanks to those that played along!


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## cnbarr (Aug 24, 2012)

Hey thanks, it was quite the journey I definitely enjoyed it. I'll post a picture if the button when I melt.


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## Palladium (Aug 31, 2012)

I got some gold in today that Chris refined and i just want to take a minute to give this man his praise. Dam fine job brother!!!! He was worried about the way the button looked because he didn't have a perfectly clean dish to melt it in. If you can produce that quality of gold with a dirty dish brother you have my vote any day. I can tell from the look of it that the man knew how to not only refine his gold properly, but also from the way the ingot is poured i can tell the man knows his work. I would highly recommend him to anyone looking to get some refining done. and all this during a forest fire to. Keep up the good work!!!!


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## cnbarr (Aug 31, 2012)

Palladium said:


> I got some gold in today that Chris refined and i just want to take a minute to give this man his praise. Dam fine job brother!!!! He was worried about the way the button looked because he didn't have a perfectly clean dish to melt it in. If you can produce that quality of gold with a dirty dish brother you have my vote any day. I can tell from the look of it that the man knew how to not only refine his gold properly, but also from the way the ingot is poured i can tell the man knows his work. I would highly recommend him to anyone looking to get some refining done. and all this during a forest fire to. Keep up the good work!!!!



Hey Ralph,

I appreciate the kind words, I take them with the* utmost humility*, it truly means a lot to me brother  , to hear that from a member such as yourself. I had been refining for about 15 months before I found GFR, and it is due to this forum and many of it's members that my refining advanced in leaps and bounds in a positive direction. 

So anyone reading this who is new, whether you've refined before or not, the wealth of information here is immeasurable, and can and will help you in your refining just search, read, and absorb all that you can. 

Ralph, thank you again for the kind words, I will post a picture of the gold I sent you and one that I poured just tonight as soon as I can. My computer fried out a few days ago so I've been setting up new one (pain in the butt when that happens and you don't back up to an external drive, oops my bad).

Thanks again bro,
Chris


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## MMFJ (Aug 31, 2012)

Palladium said:


> I got some gold in today that Chris refined and i just want to take a minute to give this man his praise. Dam fine job brother!!!! He was worried about the way the button looked because he didn't have a perfectly clean dish to melt it in. If you can produce that quality of gold with a dirty dish brother you have my vote any day. I can tell from the look of it that the man knew how to not only refine his gold properly, but also from the way the ingot is poured i can tell the man knows his work. I would highly recommend him to anyone looking to get some refining done. and all this during a forest fire to. Keep up the good work!!!!


I'd love to see the pics! 8) 

BTW, on the contest - I wanted to publicly notify the winners - I haven't forgotten, just haven't had time to take the prizes to the post office (who knew, the winners would be in Canada! and I can't post there from online......). In case you didn't know, we've been 'getting mobile' for the last two weeks and we are almost done - my wife's headed out on Sunday - I got a 'reprieve' for a few days (had some issues selling off part of my shop - getting 4 pallets of cards out, 40-some shelves of product and two wooden-built mezzanines, selling a forklift... - that really took priority.....


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## cnbarr (Aug 31, 2012)

Here is the picture of the gold sent to Palladium, and the picture of the gold I melted this afternoon,





Thanks again Ralph I do appreciate the kind words!!!


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## MMFJ (Aug 31, 2012)

I like the top picture better (1. it is more gold 2. it's MY gold! 

Palladium says it is 'top notch' - that's good enough for me - dirty dish or not! Nice job!


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## glondor (Aug 31, 2012)

Nice job Chris. I know how difficult it can be to get that result with escrap. Keep up the good work. Cheers Mike


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## cnbarr (Sep 19, 2012)

Hi all, I hope all is well with everyone,

I figured, rather then starting a new thread, I would just continue to post in this thread with refines I have done for other forum members.

Here is a few pictures of a bar I just poured and sent off today for another member,








Thanks,
Chris


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## samuel-a (Sep 19, 2012)

Very nice bar Chris.
Excellent work !


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## cnbarr (Sep 19, 2012)

samuel-a said:


> Very nice bar Chris.
> Excellent work !



Hey, Thanks Sam, 
the refine didn't quite produce what I anticipated as far as yield was concerned, but I feel quite confident in the purity!

Thanks again


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