# Testing, refining and melting silver



## imagine (May 22, 2013)

Hi there, I got myself some silver plates, vases etc. Everything is marked 830S which is the Norwegian code for silver. Though I don't know if its plated or not.
I have been trying to look around the forums here to find some guides, but so far no luck... I must say that the forum is kinda messy.

So far I've read this one: http://shorinternational.com/RefineAgInstruct.php
And watched this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq1W-QdMsWQ
Both have given me a certain amount of knowledge. 

I was hopeing someone here would give me either step by step advice on what I should do next or link me to some guides.
I want to make a hobby out of this


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## FrugalRefiner (May 22, 2013)

Imagine,

Welcome to the forum! I can, indeed, provide you some links. Understand that you'll have to put in a fair amount of effort to understand recovery and refining, but if you follow the links below, you'll have a good start.

The first rule is to be safe in everything you do. Before you jump into any of the processes you see discussed here, be sure you understand the potential hazards and do everything you can to minimize the risks. Read EVERYTHING in the Safety section of the forum, especially the Dealing with Waste topic. No amount of precious metal is worth jeopardizing your health or the health of those around you. 

I strongly encourage all new members to follow the Guided Tour created by LazerSteve. It will provide an introduction to the forum and numerous valuable links including the General Reactions List. Be sure to follow the link to his web site as he has many outstanding videos, a collection of great reference documents, and he sells a lot of the supplies needed to get started including detailed instructional DVDs. Samuel-a also has a lot of videos, guides and tutorials at his web site Gold-N-Scrap.

Download C. M. Hoke's book. There is a digital copy you can read on screen here: _Refining Precious Metal Wastes_. If you prefer a printed copy, you'll find a link to a printer friendly version in my signature line below. You'll see her book mentioned repeatedly here on the forum for good reason. It is probably the best book ever written for the beginner who wants to learn refining. It is written in layman's terms and will provide a solid foundation that will help you understand everything you read here on the forum. You'll also find a tremendous amount of information in the two Forum Handbooks compiled by aflacglobal, Forum Handbook Vol 1 and Forum Handbook Vol 2.

Once you understand the basics you can start to try some small scale experiments. If there's something you don't understand or you get stuck, there will be someone here to help you.

Best of luck,
Dave


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## imagine (May 22, 2013)

Thank you. Now I have a good source of reading material.


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## imagine (May 24, 2013)

Nitric Acid is obviously almost impossible for private persons to get here in Norway.

I guess the only other way is to use electrolysis? I have some experience with electrolysis as I made a set up for seperating hydrogen from water. Though I do not really understand the process of doing this with silver. Can anyone try and explain me the process?

I have read Hoken's guide.


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## TomVader (May 24, 2013)

You can make nitric acid with sodium nitrate and sulfuric acid. Member Lazersteve's recipe is the best. You'll have to distill it to get all the salts out. Be sure to take ALL of the safety precautions VERY SERIOUSLY. The gases produced in making nitric acid and in digesting metals with nitric acid are DEADLY. Be safe and good luck!


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## imagine (May 24, 2013)

The problem is that sulfuric acid is also hard to come by. Basically any chemicals that can either be used to make bombs, or make chemicals that can be used to make chemicals that can make bombs... 

So I'm basically kinda bound to go for the electrolysis way. It's way too expensive and a pain in the rear getting chemicals for the chemical way...


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## RoboSteveo (May 24, 2013)

Hi Imagine,

If you go to the Board index, scross down to Processes then select "Electrochemistry", you should have all the info you need on making a Silver cell, also if you check out LazerSteves links you can purchase any supplies you may need to build one. Do some reading and you should be on your way.
Hope this helps.


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## imagine (May 28, 2013)

Been smelting some of the silver into shots, making them easier to refine. There is actually someways I could possibly achieve to get nitric acid. I dont really have that much to choose from, so what are the lowest concentration i can use for productive refining of silver?


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## butcher (May 29, 2013)

imagine,
I understand your enthusiasm to get started, most of us, when we first start we have that enthusiasm.
But with this enthusiasm, we make many expensive mistakes, doing things before we actually learn, buying things we do not need, or trying processes that get us into messes and lose our values, and can hurt us or others.

The most important aspect of this skill is knowledge, anyone can melt a lump of metal, or put a metal into acid, but the real skill is knowing how when why and understanding the fine details of recovery and refining.

The metal can be tested to determine what you have,(along with the markings stamped on the metal),a test with nitric or schwerters solution would have told you what you have.

With this knowledge I have gained from making many of the mistakes your beginning to make now, I can tell you whatever you do with these metals at this point will be a mistake, until you begin to get an understanding of how and why, and spending a lot of time studying, before you even think of beginning, whether it is purchasing chemicals or supply's, buying scrap, preparing scrap, or melting or trying to process using acids or other chemical processes, at this point you should understand all you have learned is enough to make costly mistakes, and all you will do is put yourself or others in danger from what you know now.

this is to try to help you see the futility of trying something as complicated as recovery or refining of precious metals before you really have a good understanding of what all it contains,

Like picking up a scalpel and deciding to become a surgeon before you even spend and time as a medical student, you patients most likely will not survive the surgery, like medicine the recovery and refining of precious metals and its chemistry is a skill and an art, that can take a lot of study and understanding to perform successfully, chemistry has specific rules and laws that you must understand and follow, to be able to perform that chemistry, it is not as easy as it appears to you before you spend the time needed to get the basic knowledge and understanding.

You said you do not know if the silver was plated, if it was melting it would be a mistake, as it just mixed the small amount of silver with a very large amount of base metal.

If the article was sterling or a higher grade of silver, by melting it you have destroyed it easily recognizable value, which makes this metals worth more and easier to sell, if it was sterling unless you have a process in mind to use the sterling in, to recover the silver and then refine it, like in-quartering gold or dissolving silver in dilute nitric to the cement out a more pure silver to be able to refine it in a cell, then melting it at this point was a mistake. 

My suggestion is put up your money, and your torch and acids. And put your enthusiasm to good use where it will do you the most good, to learn to become a precious metal recover-er and refiner, put your focus on understanding and learning the art and skills first, get a good understanding of how things work and why, spend your time reading and doing the required homework and study, follow the suggestions given on which material needs to be studied, and following the links the older members provide to help you with your study, after you have studied enough to get a really good understanding of exactly what you must do and what to expect, study one process at a time, working with one material (every materials use different processes which need studying), I suggest after you have read hokes and done all of the getting acquainted experiments, then begin with a material that has few problems and is easy to understand (memory fingers), working on a more trouble free process you build skills and understanding, preparing yourself for the harder more troublesome processes.


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## imagine (May 29, 2013)

Well thank you for a long and informative post.

I have allready read over 50% of hoke's book, I just think that it's not a very good educational book. He repeats himself many times over many pages and the book is so chaotic. He jumps from one thing to something completely different. Well thats my opinion though. I understand that this is not something to jump into, so I guess I should try and read it again.

I have found out that most of the pieces are 830/1000 silver and what I have smelted was not plated. I just took the smallest and thinnest piece I had and did some test with my burner. I have not started to really smelt and refine all the scrap silver i have, but I have tried to do some small experiments. Anyway, your post made me want to read over that book again and I will try to get myself some more knowledge before trying to go any further.


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## butcher (May 29, 2013)

The book has an overall theme, that you may not see when you first read it, this book was written by a young lady, notice how she prepares different types of materials, even before processing them, even though scrap materials may seem similar to the untrained eye, she will use different processes to recover and refine them, reading this book the first time you may not catch all of the details she is teaching, in fact even after you read it a couple of times you may still miss some important clues, after you learn more and get a pretty good understanding of recovery and refining, you can still go back to this book and learn more, C.M. Hokes book holds many secrets, like a good movie you see something new every time you read it, this book gives the basics of overall recovery and refining of most any materials, even materials that are not described in the book, the getting acquainted experiments and testing procedures are invaluable in understanding many problems, and helping you to learn to get out of those problems, reading and understanding this book is only a tiny bit of beginning of learning, the forum is another book which you will find as a library of knowledge, like a goldmine its nuggets of value take work to get, but when you find these nuggets it makes the work seem like child's play for such valuable information, you are on an adventure in this gold mine, like mining it may take you a little time and practice to recognize the nuggets which are so valuable, but as you get more experience as a miner you will find more of these valuable nuggets, and get better at recognizing them and finding them, believe it or not what you will find in your study you will find worth more than that gold material you have collected so far, or most likely more valuable than the metals you will be able to collect in several years, so with your going to the books you are actually getting much closer to those valuable metals that your seeking than you could with a torch or your wallet or the acids.

Enjoy the journey through the real gold mine.


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## kurt (May 29, 2013)

imagine - butcher has given you some VERY good advise Hokes (the book) is the bible to learning & understanding the basics of the art of refining precious metals --- if you can not understand what she is explaining in her book - then you are not going to understand answers to your questions --- Why? - because you are not going to be able to ask the right questions if you don't read & understand the basics taught in her book.

Many new members come here thinking the short cut to learning precious metal recovery & refining is to simply is ask a "few" questions - get a "few" answers - & then be on their way to refining --- Its not that simple (like youtube videos would lead you to believe) the internet is FULL of mis-information &/or incomplete information & much of that info will get you into trouble

Learning refining takes MUCH research, study, & expermentation to learn the processes - Hokes book is the starting point of this & its not just a book you read - but rather a book you study

Many of the chemicals you need to refine are them selves toxic & hazarous & with them you create even more toxic & hazardous fumes & waste - you need to learn about chemical handling, fume control & waste management before you do anything (things youtube & other internet info does not teach you)

Read (study) Hokes - then research, read & study this forum - then ask questions (all in that order) & you will see that you have found the BEST place in the world to learn about refining right here ---This is how & where I learned to do it

Concerning not being able to get nitric acid in Norway --- you "need" nitric to refine silver - even to do it in an electrolytic silver cell - so if you can't get it you need to make it (instructions are posted here on the forum) the chemicals for doing so you should be able to find at hardware stores as drain cleaners & stump removers - look on the lables of drain cleaners - some are made of sulfuric acid, some are sodium hydroxide (you want the sulfuric) then look for stump removers - some are made of potassium nitrate & you can use that instead of sodium nitrate

Welcome to the forum

Kurt


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## imagine (May 29, 2013)

Yes indeed. I made this thread when I first found the interest and it was more meant to be a informating gathering thread more then Q&A.

As I said I have read mostly of hoke's book (apologizing for saying "he") and it's not that I do not understand it, it's just that I find it poorly written. I do understand it's a refiners "bible" and the information it hold is worth gold, so sorry for talking down on it. But as I mentioned earlier I have to bite the apple and read it again and probably again. I feel the replies have been more in a "Don't think this is easy, newbie" tone, thats why I feel like I have to defend myself. I am not a person who only want to make shortcuts, the thing is I only want to learn. the more knowledge im fed, the hungrier I get. And my eager in my hobbies is probably too much sometimes.

I felt like the Nitric acid concentration question got the ball rolling, but I only asked because I want the tools on-hand. That way I can start doing theese small experiments in the learning process, like testing for silver as an example.

Considering the safety precautions, I am a reasonable guy, I won't do things without making sure I have done enough precautions forehand. Considering we are dealing with toxic chemicals/fumes and molten metal, make me even more aware of the hazards. 

About getting Nitric Acid in Norway, I seem to have found a sulotion. That is also why I asked for concentration, so I didn't look into the wrong thing. And yes, after not getting answered here I did some searchin on the electrolysis and found out I need silver nitrate, which i need nitric acid for.

Please understand that im not trying to just make a fast buck, I am wanting to learn this and keep it as a hobby because of my fascination of the process. Im sorry if I come out aggressive, I just want you guys to know im here to learn


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## butcher (May 29, 2013)

We understand we have all been in the same boat.

All of the answers to about any question you can think of have been answered, and while your studying and finding these answers, you will generate many more questions to look for the answers to, as you keep searching even these will be answered, there seems to be no end to the questions I have and no end to the answers I find on the forum.

you have only begun this journey it is a long journey with many adventures along the way, you have just taken the first step and keep wondering when you will get there, this is a long ride, sit back and enjoy it, you will be amazed at all of the answers you are going to see along the way, and you know what, you do not even have to ask any questions to be able to see these answers, since I have been here I do not think I have asked any questions, I have not had time to ask questions, I have been too busy finding the answers.

Sit back and enjoy the boat ride with the rest of us busy here learning.


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## 9kuuby9 (May 29, 2013)

butcher said:


> We understand we have all been in the same boat.
> 
> All of the answers to about any question you can think of have been answered, and while your studying and finding these answers, you will generate many more questions to look for the answers to, as you keep searching even these will be answered, there seems to be no end to the questions I have and no end to the answers I find on the forum.
> 
> ...



That's some Great quote's you've got their Butcher, you never cease to amaze me!

Let's all enjoy this beautiful journey!


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## imagine (May 30, 2013)

Im not buying anything yet, but is 65% nitric acid good enough for refining silver? I found out that I can atleast get a hold of that, if not ill have to make it myself.


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## g_axelsson (May 30, 2013)

That will work just fine. Usually people dilute their nitric for it to work better.

Greetings from Sweden. 8) 

Göran


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