# 4KG OF RECOVERED GOLD?



## Ubongrex (Jan 5, 2016)

Hello experts in the house, I acknowledge you all and appreciate your level of knowledge. I have carefully read through Hoke's work and it's quite informative. However, I have an issue I need some clarifications. Is it possible to recover upto 4kg of gold using the processes outlined in this forum? I have a colleague who is into gold and silver recovery business but would not show anybody how to go about it. He recovers upto 4kg of gold. Recently he posted a picture of such recoveries and claims it's about 4kg, take a look at the pictures. 
please



My question therefore goes this way, if this is true, then the idea that gold recovery' doesn't yield much, is actually not realistic .TV Or is there a process this guy is using that is different? Truly I really want to know how to refine gold to yield much quantity using the best and cost effective process. Thanks a


----------



## solar_plasma (Jan 5, 2016)

Doesn't look like gold, not even dirty gold. Can you tell us its specific weight?

You can ask your question yourself, google the yield of e-scrap and you know how many tons of each has to be recycled to get 4 kg.


----------



## MarcoP (Jan 5, 2016)

Looks like he melted 4Kg of pins, easiest way to get there.

Marco


----------



## shmandi (Jan 5, 2016)

You don't even need pins. Just some brass like plumbing etc. Much easier than dealing with 4 kg of pins.


----------



## Ubongrex (Jan 5, 2016)

Marco P 

thanks. But looks like you have an idea of what this guy is doing... please I will be privileged if you could share it with us. thanks


----------



## Anonymous (Jan 5, 2016)

Looks can be deceiving and let's not immediately assume there's anything dodgy going on here guys because it colours the whole thread badly. 

With regards to how much product it takes to produce 4Kg of gold that really depends upon the quality of the raw product. Some mainstream e-scrap runs at 150g per tonne which would require approx 27 tonnes and I have seen some e-scrap that would run at 4 Kg yield with less than 1 tonne of base product. You only need to look at ceramic CPU yields to back this up. Once you get to the enterprise equipment and you can be looking at even higher returns.

The "bars" shown look to have been processed by smelting something along the lines of shredded product. 

So to answer the original question yes it is possible to recover 4Kg of gold from e-scrap using the processes outlined on this forum. 

Hope that helps.

Jon


----------



## Ubongrex (Jan 5, 2016)

Shmanda 

you think this is copper?


----------



## solar_plasma (Jan 5, 2016)

It is all here. You can read how to recover and refine values without poisoning yourself and your environment.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=22351


----------



## solar_plasma (Jan 5, 2016)

Ubongrex said:


> Shmanda
> 
> you think this is copper?



It looks like metal garbage melted together.


----------



## Grelko (Jan 5, 2016)

MarcoP said:


> Looks like he melted 4Kg of pins, easiest way to get there.
> 
> Marco



This is the first thing I thought of, when I saw the pictures also.


----------



## NobleMetalWorks (Jan 5, 2016)

If there is any gold at all in those, I don't even know what to call them. Melted blobs of mostly base metals?

Your buddy is nor sharing information with you, because he obviously has no information to share. He didn't recover any gold in these melted ugly globs.

If we disregard the fact that not one glob of this material is the right color to be pure gold, and just focused on the different colors of the globules themselves, we should ask the question "If this is gold, why are they all different colors"?

Your friend is either outright lying, or has absolutely no clue about anything to do with recovering or refining gold. He's having you on to be sure.

Scott


----------



## jason_recliner (Jan 5, 2016)

Here's a quick and dirty test, which is ironic because it was discovered by a guy named Archimedes who solved the problem by taking a bath.

Gold has a S.G. of about 19.3, and 1000g / 19.3 = 51.8ml.
So each kg of this "golden substance" should displace about as much water as a single D cell (or 'battery').

Edit: This is a negative-only test. That is, if the weight/volume is right then it is not necessarily proved to be gold. But if it does not displace correctly, then it is proven to NOT be gold.


----------



## g_axelsson (Jan 5, 2016)

jason_recliner said:


> Here's a quick and dirty test, which is ironic because it was discovered by a guy named Archimedes who solved the problem by taking a bath.
> 
> Gold has a S.G. of about 19.3, and 1000g / 19.3 = 51.8ml.
> So each kg of this "golden substance" should displace about as much water as a single D cell (or 'battery').
> ...


So the question now is, what is the SIZE of the scales used?

4 kilo of gold is 0.2 liter, does it look like that or more in volume?

I thought "Eureka" ment "give me a towel" in Greek...

Göran


----------



## jason_recliner (Jan 5, 2016)

g_axelsson said:


> I thought "Eureka" ment "give me a towel" in Greek...


A widely held myth. The reason he took a bath at all was _actually_ his wife was yelling "You reeker! You reeker!".


----------



## kurtak (Jan 5, 2016)

jason_recliner said:


> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> > I thought "Eureka" ment "give me a towel" in Greek...
> ...



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Kurt


----------



## nickvc (Jan 5, 2016)

There is one small blob in the second picture that could and I stress could be a decent gold alloy but it certainly isn't fine gold, the rest as the guys have said looks like the guy is simply melting metals from e scrap or whatever together, there could be gold amongst the mix but it certainly won't be anywhere near 4 kilos. If he is just melting anything then I struggle to see how he's making it pay, low grade bars can be a pain to process further so payouts tend to be lower and depending on the other base metals considerably lower than karat scrap.
I'm a great believer in recovery to achieve a decent return, refining on most product is a waste of time as producing high purity will not improve the payout unless you have a market for the produced metal better than what the big refining houses pay, it's possible your friend is selling those blobs on to a refiner but I bet it will be based on low returns, he may well be making money but if you could get one bar of mixed gold and silver from that mix I bet an assay would show how much value he's losing on selling as is.
If you know your way around recoveries and refining then ask your friend to give you a small percentage of the material he's melting and prove the point by showing him how much the stuffs really worth. If he doesn't want to wait for his money then I'd suggest melting all the metals together, stir it extremely well, and take a dip sample to have assayed, even if he can't pour a 4 kilo bar at least he would know what exactly he has got against what he's been paid.


----------



## Ubongrex (Jan 5, 2016)

Wow! thanks so much. I think I'm cool with these information. It does not even glow like gold.... got me thinking seriously... but it's all good now


----------



## solar_plasma (Jan 5, 2016)

It does not need much other metals to discolor gold. Only high copper content can give it its yellow color back. 

Beneath you see pure gold on the left and dental alloy at about 70% gold / 5% platinum (+16 g/cm³) on the right.

Nevertheless, what your friend has made is some kind of brass (copper, zinc and other basemetals, maybe with some parts per 10000 of gold traces, if he used goldplated material.


----------



## 4metals (Jan 5, 2016)

I have seen rather large bars made up of gold doré bars which were all small melts like shown. They were accumulated from small mining operations in Africa and sent to a collector to refine. They yielded over 90% gold and were quite easy to refine with the aqua regia process. 

If it is high grade doré gold it will process nicely in a reactor like in the picture.




This vessel will process 3 kilo's at a time. They make larger but this is the biggest that a small operator can pick up and empty by hand, if he gives you 4 kilo's at a time you can split it into 2 equal sized lots and drive the reaction harder to reduce the time required without risking boil over. 

I would melt them into 1 bar and take a sample for assay.


----------



## Anonymous (Jan 5, 2016)

Bjorn your post makes my point. Thanks 8) 

I'm a little confused as to how one can therefore look at the metal in the pictures and say that it's merely a tiny tiny percentage of gold without knowing any more than "it's come from e-scrap." Could someone apply their science head please and take their assumptive head off and enlighten me as to how these statements can be made with credibility given the lack of facts presented.

It's been said on many occasions that we are "men of science" and in situations like this, that statement baffles me.

Edit: I've just read 4metals reply above mine that he posted as I was typing. I concur completely and still ask the question that I asked in the paragraph above.


----------



## 4metals (Jan 5, 2016)

From the number showing on the scale, 1710, and not knowing the units it is unlikely all of the gold is showing on the scale. Scales, at least here in the US, come with 3 modes, grams, pennyweights, and troy ounces. 

It obviously isn't 1710 ounces.

If it is in grams, 1710 grams is under 2 kilos.

If it is in Pennyweights 1710 grams is 2.65 kilo's. 

Either way what is showing is not 4 kilo's.


----------



## Anonymous (Jan 5, 2016)

171 oz would be 4.84Kg though. Still not 4Kg- closer to 5Kg.


----------



## solar_plasma (Jan 5, 2016)

> I have a colleague who is into gold and silver recovery business



aha...recovery, not mining




> 4kg of gold.



There are 11bars on this weight, but there are more in the picture above, so I assume those to be the 4kg
assuming the bucket is a usual household bucket and this is a typical kitchen weight, those bars have a volume of 500-1000 cm³, so the metal has a density around 4-8g/cm³, typically for basemetals



90% gold dorè would have a density around 17g/cm³

in the best case it could be 80% silver and a little gold 

...but until he finally measures the volume, nobody can give a more scientific answer...my two cents


----------



## Ubongrex (Jan 5, 2016)

4 metals

the units is in grams and this bars originate from Africa precisely here in Nigeria. The picture with the scale is 1710g about 1kg 710grammes while the other picture without the scale is actually 4kg after weighing.


----------



## Ubongrex (Jan 5, 2016)

4metals

If what you are saying is actually worth considering, then its easy to say that those bars actually originating from Africa just like the ones you saw could actually contain some reasonable amount of gold. What do you think?


----------



## Ubongrex (Jan 5, 2016)

Solar-Plasma


that calculation is actually revealing


----------



## Anonymous (Jan 5, 2016)

What I WOULD say is that if it originates in Nigeria then I wouldn't be paying anything up front for this and I would be paying on results. They have college courses over there based on how to con people. Watch your back. 

When you mention paying on results the sellers very often disappear.


----------



## goldsilverpro (Jan 5, 2016)

Maybe the guy had 4kg of all gold plated pins and, due to his ignorance, assumed they were solid gold. If so, maybe he believed the old myth that all he had to do to refine it was "melt it down".

Has anyone suggested testing the bars with a drop of nitric? That would be the first thing I would do.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Jan 5, 2016)

Ubongrex said:


> Is it possible to recover upto 4kg of gold using the processes outlined in this forum? I have a colleague who is into gold and silver recovery business but would not show anybody how to go about it. He recovers upto 4kg of gold. Recently he posted a picture of such recoveries and claims it's about 4kg, take a look at the pictures.
> 
> My question therefore goes this way, if this is true, then the idea that gold recovery' doesn't yield much, is actually not realistic .TV Or is there a process this guy is using that is different? Truly I really want to know how to refine gold to yield much quantity using the best and cost effective process. Thanks a


Ubongrex, I'm going to circle back to your original post and question. When our veteran members say that gold recovery "doesn't yield much", they're usually trying to caution new members who say they've collected some old electronic scrap and they want to recover all the gold they believe is there. In that case, they are usually correct. A few computers aren't going to yield much gold. But, as several members have described, if you have enough of the right type of scrap, you can certainly recover many kilograms of gold from them using the processes described in Hoke's book and here on the forum.

I think that was what several members assumed, even though you never said this was from electronic scrap. I see in your profile that you are in Nigeria, and that these bars originate in Nigeria. It is possible there bars are primarily gold. It is also possible they are primarily base metals.

Several members have mentioned testing the specific gravity of the bars. If you can actually get your hands on one, the test can be done easily, at least for a rough result. You'll need an accurately graduated container, some water and a scale. First, weigh the bar in grams. Next, fill the graduated container with enough water to cover the bar when you put it in. Bring the water up to one of the graduated marks. Then add the bar and check how much higher the level of the water is. That will tell you the volume of the bar. Finally, just divide the weight in grams by volume of the bar in milliliters. That will give you a rough idea of the specific gravity.

So, let's say you fill a graduated cylinder to the 50 ml. mark, and when you add the bar, it raises the water level to the 60 ml. mark. The volume of the bar is about 10 ml. Let's also say the bar weighs 190 grams. If we divide the weight (190) by the volume (10), the specific gravity would be 19, which is about the specific gravity of gold. If the weight was only about 70 or 80 grams, the specific gravity would only be about 7 or 8, indicating it was mainly base metals.

If you can do this simple, quick, non-destructive test and tell us the results, we may be able to provide a little more help.

Dave


----------



## 4metals (Jan 5, 2016)

> If what you are saying is actually worth considering, then its easy to say that those bars actually originating from Africa just like the ones you saw could actually contain some reasonable amount of gold. What do you think?



There are some red flags. First is the fact that the supplier is not talking or showing anyone anything. Second is from years of first hand experience, the BEST fake gold I have ever seen for sale has been from Africa. And I have seen it as bars, granules, nuggets, and even refined sponge. Their fakes looked as good as the real thing and their scam is always to get you to pay before you refine it. I have learned to avoid the entire melting and sampling process I just take a small piece and dissolve it in nitric and water. If it all dissolves it's a fake. This will also tell you if it is gold filled or plated pins melted as there will be some residue of the sample that will not dissolve in the nitric and water, that is the gold. 

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of gold in Africa, read this thread http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=22243 this guy is from India and he has buyers in country in Africa buying this material. Obviously real gold and also real proof that it can be done. What you would need to process 4 kg is much more modest. 

Be wary of new business partners who don't want to give you the entire story. Get a sample and an assay from a reputable lab. If it is doré gold bars you can refine them and do well. The problem in Africa, it seems, is not having gold, it's selling it and converting it to currency. You will have the same issues with refined gold if you process this. If this is real and you can produce high purity gold bars, we can give you resources to sell your refine metals and teach you how to do it. First find out if it is real.


----------



## Ubongrex (Jan 6, 2016)

Frugal Refiner

thanks, I will give it a try as soon as I can

4 metals, OK I've noted your advice. Thanks


----------



## Ubongrex (Jan 6, 2016)

Frugal Refiner and 4metals

Thanks a lot, I will give it a try


----------



## kurtak (Jan 6, 2016)

4metals said:


> Be wary of new business partners who don't want to give you the entire story. Get a sample and an assay from a reputable lab. If it is doré gold bars you can refine them and do well.



The only problem I see with that is if the suppler is a scammer he could provide a "sample" that would assay "good" & then "sell" the larger lot that is worthless

The only way I would put my money down on something like this is to be given the entire lot - melt & pour it to one bar with a pin tube sample taken from the melt & then have that assayed & then pay out on the assay

I don't know of a single legitimate refinery that would pay me on my say of what I think is in a dore metal - or pay me on a sample of what I say represents a larger amount - or for that matter pay me on an assay of my own --- the ONLY way they will pay me is if I send ALL the dore - which THEY will assay - & then they pay AFTER they have assayed

Kurt


----------



## kurtak (Jan 6, 2016)

solar_plasma said:


> It does not need much other metals to discolor gold. Only high copper content can give it its yellow color back.
> 
> Beneath you see pure gold on the left and dental alloy at about 70% gold / 5% platinum (+16 g/cm³) on the right.



solar_plasma is absolutely right - it takes a surprising "small" amount of PGMs &/or nickel to "bleach" the yellow color out of gold giving it a silver color (which is why they use those metals for making white gold alloys) other metals like silver, zinc & tin also have a bleaching effect on the color of gold but not as much as the PGMs or Ni

Nickel (as well as PGMs) will also bleach copper in the same way (very little needed to turn the copper white)

Here is a pic of some dore metal from some of my smelting - the cone of the left has a couple pounds of silver in it & other white metals & is about 69% copper --- the cone on the right however is 87% copper & 1.76% gold - it only has 2% silver 4% tin 1% lead & the remainder is Ni, Zn, & Fe so as you can see it doesn't take a lot of "white" metals to bleach the copper very near to white --- you have to get the light to hit it just right in order to see even a ting of yellow color from the copper - the white metals are only 11% of the alloy

Kurt


----------



## 4metals (Jan 6, 2016)

When you take into account the only metals that are not silver or metallic grey in color are gold and copper, there are plenty of metals out there capable of taking that bright yellow luster off of gold.


----------

