# AgCl reacts with Fe



## clas (Jun 1, 2014)

at the test that i started yesterday i have a problem

i leave the AgCl to dry ,but it reacts with the bawl that use 

i saw at the bottom of the bawl corrosion, so my AgCl is contaminated with Fe

what is your opinion ?

continue the procedure and go to put Na2Co3 or go back and re-bath the AgCl with HNO3?

thank you


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## solar_plasma (Jun 1, 2014)

Though iron would not be my first choice at all and precipitating silver as silver chloride only as a test, not for recovery, you can just go on doing that trick: put your powders in a beaker, add an excess of iron powder, heat to 50°C for 15 min, remove magnetic particles and wash with HCl, then with water.


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## butcher (Jun 1, 2014)

clas,
It sounds like you are doing things before you have spent enough time to learn how, this would just cause many problems and put yourself in danger.

Take some time to learn what equipment is needed and how to use it, what procedures work best and how to do them, above all learn how to do this work safely, and treat your waste responsibly

Iron being more reactive than silver will take the chloride from silver chloride, dissolving iron making an iron chloride, as it reduces the silver chloride back to metal silver, any silver chloride that came into contact with the iron, has most likely became silver, the bulk of your silver not in contact with the iron is still silver chloride.

There are several methods to convert silver chloride back to metallic silver.

Silver chloride needs to be converted back to silver metal before being melted, as the silver chloride is volatile in a melt, and much of your silver will go up in smoke if melted before being converted back to silver.

This conversion of converting silver chloride back to silver, can be done with a flux in a fusion prior to and during the melt, in a chemical reaction, like what you were discussing in your other post using sodium carbonate...

Light will convert silver chloride back to silver, this works good for film where the silver chloride is in a thin layer in the emulsion of the film, but where the powders are packed together as they are in recovery or refining we cannot get enough exposure of light to all of the silver chloride particles, so this wont do us much good in recovery or refining.

Sodium hydroxide and Karo syrup (or dextrose sugar, corn sugar), to convert silver chloride back to silver.

Iron with dilute sulfuric acid will convert silver chloride to metallic silver.
Aluminum with HCl acid will also convert silver chloride back to metal silver.

Silver chloride can also be reduced by other methods, borohydride, or formaldehyde...

I find silver chloride a problem, getting it clean, it can easily drag metals or impurity’s with it in its clumpy nature, not that easy to remove these impurities in the washings (which can also effect the conversion process later), the conversion of silver chloride back to metal is not as easy as it sounds, most of these procedures are contact methods, where getting good contact of all of the finely packed silver chloride particles, in good contact with the reducing agents is sometimes difficult, thus it becomes difficult to get all of the silver chloride reduced back to metal before melting it.

I avoid making silver chloride when I can because of the difficulties involved in getting a purer product, and in conversion of the silver, losses of silver, which are more likely in the processes involved, which can be higher if everything is not done properly.

Cementing the silver from the silver nitrate solution just makes it so much easier, and better in my opinion.

Study and make things easier and safer for yourself.


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## clas (Jun 1, 2014)

butcher said:


> clas,
> It sounds like you are doing things before you have spent enough time to learn how, this would just cause many problems and put yourself in danger.
> 
> Take some time to learn what equipment is needed and how to use it, what procedures work best and how to do them, above all learn how to do this work safely, and treat your waste responsibly
> ...



Butcher the problem that came up is that AgCl corrision "eat" the bawl, that i have it inside. It was not what i wanted to do , but i use a wrong bawl.(it was inox with ceramic/porcelain layer on )
Do you think that now that my AgCl is contaminated the best thing to do is to use a magnet and then HCL or use again HNO3 to clean the AgCl?


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## solar_plasma (Jun 1, 2014)

There is nothing magnetic in it, you did not understand the method I described. This makes clear, Butcher is right about you need to learn a lot before proceeding.


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## clas (Jun 1, 2014)

solar_plasma said:


> There is nothing magnetic in it, you did not understand the method I described. This makes clear, Butcher is right about you need to learn a lot before proceeding.



i read carefully your answer above , how i can remove the magnetic particles before the HCL wash?


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## solar_plasma (Jun 1, 2014)

with a magnet?

Butcher is probably right about, that it needs some acid too in the case of silver chloride. Reducing silver iodide with iron works fine, even without acid, but this compound is more unstable than silver chloride.

Save the powders in a flask with some water upon and do as Butcher told you.


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## butcher (Jun 2, 2014)

clas,
I do not know what the bowl was made of, if just Iron, and there is not a large amount of iron mixed with the powders, you can dissolve the remaining iron with HCl. (this may also reconvert any silver back to chloride, that was converted to metal by the iron), you may have some iron hydroxides that will not dissolve in the HCl, I would not worry that much about them, iron and silver does not form an alloy, and if fluxing your melt the iron will end up in the slag glass.

As far as your choice of conversion of the silver chloride to metal, that is up to you, It does not hurt to try different methods to see what works best for you and which you like better.

Study will be your best friend in learning what you are trying to learn, and it can also help you do what your trying to do without harming yourself, I know you bought some fancy refining machine, but without study and proper proceedures, and understanding, and the safety needed, the fancy machine will not help all that much.

I would not go any further until I knew I was working safely, I would also do some study on the proceedures I plannned to try, or study several proceedures to decide which may work the best in my case, so I had a better Idea of what to expect, and more of an idea how it is done, studying how to perform the reactions safely, knowing how to deal with the fumes and the toxic waste produced in these reactions.


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## clas (Jun 2, 2014)

butcher said:


> clas,
> I do not know what the bowl was made of, if just Iron, and there is not a large amount of iron mixed with the powders, you can dissolve the remaining iron with HCl. (this may also reconvert any silver back to chloride, that was converted to metal by the iron), you may have some iron hydroxides that will not dissolve in the HCl, I would not worry that much about them, iron and silver does not form an alloy, and if fluxing your melt the iron will end up in the slag glass.
> 
> As far as your choice of conversion of the silver chloride to metal, that is up to you, It does not hurt to try different methods to see what works best for you and which you like better.
> ...



thank you butcher!

you are very clear! 

tomorrow i will have photos and the result from the assay office from my first try


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## Lou (Jun 4, 2014)

You need not remove iron from silver chloride cementation to metallic silver--it won't contaminate and can be fluxed out to give a black slag. All you will need to do is add borax and carbonate and melt. Just be sure to test melt some of the silver to be sure it is chloride free (do this in a well-ventilated area).


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