# gaslighting



## justinhcase (Dec 7, 2015)

I just wanted to say a word about a particularly destructive and evil method of manipulation being use by some people.
I first became aware of this while working for a sheltered housing unit for a U.K. City.as part of my training I was instructed on how to spot the effect's with in problem family's.
Later I came across it again while employed by a number of foot ball club's who where having a problem with crowd control.
Both cases where very hard to pin down and prove as part of the operating tactic is to have your wishes carried out by proxy .
Since I have started to trade precious metals I have run across a number of individuals who use this set of techniques.
Be informed.once you have an understanding you will be able to recognize it as it is being perpetrated and walk way. 
As in all conflict resolution the best advice is to simply walk away as these individuals are expert's on turning any tiny weakens into a weapon.
Gaslighting is a sophisticated manipulation tactic which certain types of personalities , most notable Raving sociopaths
use to create doubt in the minds of others.
Effective gaslighting can be accomplished in several different ways. Sometimes, a person
can assert something with such an apparent intensity of conviction that the other person
begins to doubt their own perspective. Other times, vigorous and unwavering denial coupled
with a display of righteous indignation can accomplish the same task. Bringing up
historical facts that seem largely accurate but contain minute, hard-to-prove distortions
and using them to “prove” the correctness of one’s position is another method. Gaslighting
is particularly effective when coupled with other tactics such as shaming and guilting.
Anything that aids in getting another person to doubt their judgment and back down will
work.
Gaslighting is just one of the many weapons in the arsenal of personalities hell-bent on
having their way, even if it means doing so by subtle and covert means of conning others.
In my experience they are narcissistic and most especially, the aggressive personalities, it
is that they will do whatever it takes to secure and maintain a position of advantage over
others. And some of the most effective means at their disposal are tactics that conceal
their malevolent intent while simultaneously prompting their “target” to accede to their
desires.
Deception is often the key ingredient in manipulation. Deception can be accomplished by
outright denial, distortion of key aspects of events, and a variety of other methods,
especially the more sophisticated lying techniques.
a really accomplished liar can deceive another person by merely reciting a litany of
absolutely true things — while deliberately and cleverly leaving out one or two crucial
elements that would change the entire character of what they’re trying to make you
believe. But a common element among all the tactics manipulators use is that they cause
the person being targeted to doubt their gut instincts about what’s going on. Their gut
tells them they’re under attack or that someone is trying to get the better of them, and
they intuitively go on the defensive. But because they often can’t find any clear, direct,
objective evidence that the other person is merely trying to disadvantage them, they start
doubting and questioning themselves. This is the real secret of effective manipulation. If
the “target” were solidly convinced they were in the process of being done in, they’d more
likely put up more resistance instead of capitulating. Manipulators know this. They win by
getting the other person to back down or give in.
It is one of the most insidious form's of abuse and it will not end once you have shown them the door.
As there self worth is tied up in there ability to control others once you have broke free there will be a marked increase in both the aggressiveness and frequency of the abuse.
Then having failed them self's to bring you to heal they will engage others to press home the attack. 
While you are in the midst of such unbridled evil thing will seem dark to you,they will depend on the fact that stress is accumulative and will be banking on you eventually giving in.Much like a fat man buying a poker hand.
But out last them and realize that it is 99.9% fantasy intended to manipulate you or others and it evaporates like mist.
Play both fair and safe.
together we can make the world a safer place for every one.


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## kurtak (Dec 7, 2015)

And just what the heck does any of that long winded post have to do with recovery & refining of PMs :roll: :roll: :roll: 

Kurt


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## NobleMetalWorks (Dec 7, 2015)

kurtak said:


> And just what the heck does any of that long winded post have to do with recovery & refining of PMs :roll: :roll: :roll:
> 
> Kurt



I was thinking the same exact thing. How does this relate to what we do on this forum, or in regards to precious metals? Is this a warning about dealing with a certain type of scam artist when buying or selling precious metals?

Posting the context of what you are relating this to might help understand why you posted this.

Scott


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## justinhcase (Dec 7, 2015)

kurtak said:


> And just what the heck does any of that long winded post have to do with recovery & refining of PMs :roll: :roll: :roll:
> 
> Kurt


You have to get your hand's on some of the most valuable material on the planet before you can refine it.
Such people would gut there grand mother for half a rotten hot dog.
They will do the same to you if you are buying or selling precious metal.hell if you have any ability they will even try to enslave you.
Do you not think it is important to be abreast of the latest understanding about such people so they can be stamped out.
May be you already know all about it but the great majority of people are not that way inclined so the possibility never even enters there mind's.
If My post stop's just one person falling into such an evil trap I know it was worth the effort.


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## justinhcase (Dec 7, 2015)

any one who is upset about my giving there business secrets away can meet me after school behind the bike shed's
8)


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## NobleMetalWorks (Dec 7, 2015)

I didn't get my college education in Metallurgy, material handling or chemistry, which of course I now wish I did, and am now back in school for. Instead on of my degrees is a Masters in Psychology. I am still trying to wrap my head around how this post relates to what we do.

You are warning people that sociopaths exist in the world? Or scam artists? Are you explaining G how to spot someone like this? Are you saying that people shouldn't trust others?

Scam artists and sociopaths or as well, psychopaths, often are the very nicest people who you might meet. The type of person it seems you are talking about is someone who uses NLP or some type of brainwashing technique or is very simply a control freak. The type of person who mentally abuses their spouse for example. But not usually the person you would meet who will try to scam you, or rip you off. Like I said above, those particular people tend to also be the very nicest and seek to gain your trust rather than argue with you until you do as they wish.

Scott


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## justinhcase (Dec 7, 2015)

NobleMetalWorks said:


> I didn't get my college education in Metallurgy, material handling or chemistry, which of course I now wish I did, and am now back in school for. Instead on of my degrees is a Masters in Psychology. I am still trying to wrap my head around how this post relates to what we do.
> 
> You are warning people that sociopaths exist in the world? Or scam artists? Are you explaining G how to spot someone like this? Are you saying that people shouldn't trust others?
> 
> ...


By my count I have detected five actively operating in the aria.
You see a shark in the water you call out.
In Africa if you see a venomous snake on the path and do not kill it you are held responsible for any one who it bite's.
And do not worry about your qualification's,i have been asked to train a great number of university graduate's who could not find there bottom with a guide wire.
Mostly how to interact with violent offenders with out getting killed.I would have expected some one so qualified to have a better understanding of the issue.Gaslamping happens to every one in work at home and in the pub.It is a despicable form of abuse indicative of class A offender's.Have you never read up on the subject. I do not understand how you consider a group of individuals bereft of all compassion or empathy"Nice People" no matter how good there emotional camouflage.
They have the mind of a Anaconda.
I am only a beginner in the art of noble metal refinement but I have been handling offensive threat's to my client for over twenty years.
I do not put forward a subject such as this with out truly believing in it's importance.


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## jimdoc (Dec 7, 2015)

Sounds like you are describing what we call "crackheads".
I haven't seen any since I moved out of Philadelphia.

Jim


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## NobleMetalWorks (Dec 7, 2015)

jimdoc said:


> Sounds like you are describing what we call "crackheads".
> I haven't seen any since I moved out of Philadelphia.
> 
> Jim



Yep, that sounds like a crack head to me as well.

I did not mean that sociopaths or psychopaths are nice, but rather they put forth extreme effort to come off as being so, specially scam artists.

My original intent in seeking a degree in psychology was specifically to be a criminal psychologist. I also have a lot of experience bouncing, running security and owning bars. I have seen my fair share of numskulls to be sure. Still, your description sounds like something else totally different. Perhaps the fault is mine, but what you describe sounds like a mentally abusive spouse, not a scam artist.

Scott


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## justinhcase (Dec 7, 2015)

jimdoc said:


> Sounds like you are describing what we call "crackheads".
> I haven't seen any since I moved out of Philadelphia.
> 
> Jim


well cocaine dealing ,extortion and any high value commodity will attract these people like sharks to chum. 
It is such an effective technique that most people will never realize that they have been manipulated,let alone that they have been used to manipulate others.
we have just had a large scandal at the highest office of our government resulting in one suicide. 
The pressure these people put there victim's under is unimaginable for any one who has never been subjected to the full force for a good period of time.
We are lucky enough to have an entire branch of government dedicated to proper conflict resolution.
It is a basic foundation of civil society to be treated fairly and equally.unless you are treated that way you have no motivation to look after your fellow citizen.It is a two way street.
By eroding the pubic confidence in each other they hold us all back.It is why the dark ages lasted so long and we have such an unequal world with such misery.
At the heart of each and every large issue of conflict I am convinced you will find one of these people.
I did draw heavily from the research of Dr George Simon PhD a clinical psychology from Texas Tech University who has specialized in disturbances of personality and character for almost 25 years.his opinion is at one with mine.


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## realhumangold (Dec 7, 2015)

Since the topic has gone this far there is a Movie "Gaslight" from the 40's that deals w/ this technique. There was an earlier version made in England. The American version was a large hit and starred many fine actors like Ingrid Bergman. I think Harold is on his way. Goodbye.............h


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## justinhcase (Dec 7, 2015)

realhumangold said:


> Since the topic has gone this far there is a Movie "Gaslight" from the 40's that deals w/ this technique. There was an earlier version made in England. The American version was a large hit and starred many fine actors like Ingrid Bergman. I think Harold is on his way. Goodbye.............h


That is exactly where the technique got it's name from.
It has now become part of the diagnostic standard in observational physiology.


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## kurtak (Dec 7, 2015)

justinhcase said:


> I do not put forward a subject such as this with out truly believing in it's importance.



Justin

It doesn't matter - this forum is not about psycho analysis - its about recovery & refining of PMs --- yet it seems though even when you do post about refining you can't refrain from expressing your great psycho analytical wisdom --- its in 70 - 80 % of your postings

Guess what Justin --- unlike Scott I do not have a degree in it but I have a library with many books about it - meaning I have spent a great deal of time studying it & I suspect that is true of many others on this forum

I log on to this forum everyday to ether learn about or contribute to the subject of refining - not to learn about psycho analysis - I have MANY" books on that subject - if I want information about that subject I will go pull a book off my book shelf or go buy another one

Please stop posting it here & that includes sneaking it in to posting about refining --- I for one am getting tired of reading it (slipped in) to "much" of what you post

We are all aware of the crooks, scam artist & psychos in the world - we don't need you to tell us about them - & we didn't ask you to be our local head doctor

Talk about refining - or find another forum to talk about this other BS

Kurt


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## justinhcase (Dec 7, 2015)

kurtak said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > I do not put forward a subject such as this with out truly believing in it's importance.
> ...


Carry on old boy.
If you do not feel you might be taken by one of these chap's I have no problem with that.
What I do object to is getting in the way of some one else who may not have your hardened personality.
If you do not like the string why take part and use so much energy.
Live and let live old boy.Is that ever some thing you would consider?


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## kurtak (Dec 7, 2015)

justinhcase said:


> If you do not like the string why take part and use so much energy.



Justin

I am simply informing you what the forum is about --- & what it is NOT about

You seem to have an **obsession** with this psycho thing - this is not the place for it - take it elsewhere - or ------

as realhumangold said -


> I think Harold is on his way. Goodbye.............h



Kurt


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 7, 2015)

What is a moderator to do? Speaking only for myself, I try to let this forum run itself. For the most part, it does a good job of it. Our members are here for a common purpose, and generally stick to the subject at hand. When someone strays too far, fellow members usually try to guide things back in the right direction, and that is good for the health of the forum.

If I, as a moderator, start stepping into threads every time I see a topic drift, I run the risk of stifling others when they consider making a post. That's not my job here.

Having said that, I think this thread has been a complete waste of my time, both in reading it, and in replying to it. We're here to discuss recovery and refining of precious metals. *Let's stay on that topic*. 

I will not lock this thread for the reason I've stated above, but I hope *no* *one* will feel a need to reply to this thread to defend their position on either side. Let it go, or be gone.

Dave


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## glorycloud (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks Dave. 

I got a migraine just reading the initial post hoping that somehow it would have something to
do with refining!


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## g_axelsson (Dec 7, 2015)

Good call Dave!

I agree with you 100%

Göran


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## NobleMetalWorks (Dec 7, 2015)

I feel like I have fed a troll, or something along those lines.

I agree with you Dave, and thank you...

Scott


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## Smack (Dec 8, 2015)

He explained the post in his 5th sentence. Pretty easy on the brain I'd say.


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## Smack (Dec 8, 2015)

jimdoc said:


> Sounds like you are describing what we call "crackheads".
> I haven't seen any since I moved out of Philadelphia.
> 
> Jim



More like describing the people we elect.


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## Harold_V (Dec 8, 2015)

FrugalRefiner said:


> If I, as a moderator, start stepping into threads every time I see a topic drift, I run the risk of stifling others when they consider making a post. That's not my job here.


That someone may be at risk of being stifled isn't an issue, not when the topic matter goes beyond the scope of the board. 

This board is not for those who hope to present their knowledge to others on topics beyond precious metals and closely related subjects. We have provided a couple fora for those who may wish to wander a bit, but when a post, ANY POST, becomes controversial, draws attention from others in the way of complaints, draws energy away from the board in non-constructive ways, _*especially*_ if the topic at hand is NOT related to the subject matter for which this board exists, it's time to intervene. 

I have a "take no prisoners" approach to moderating. I'm not the least bit interested in how others may feel on the subject, as I've had more than a few experiences that have proven, beyond a doubt, that a moderator must be firm. What he/she says goes----and is not up for discussion or debate. That, of course, assumes that said moderator has the ability to be fair with readers, and has a firm understanding of what problem(s) may exist. 

I took note that realhumangold commented " I think Harold is on his way."

Yep. And I've arrived. I fully intend to see that this nonsense comes to an abrupt halt, which I will not do by locking this thread. It will be accomplished simply by stating that I haven't banned anyone recently. Anyone care to step forward? All it takes is a rebuttal. 

I now consider this matter closed, if you get my drift. 

Harold


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