# Newbie Questions from Toronto, Ontario, Canada



## stevenrossi (Dec 20, 2014)

Hello All

My name is Steven Rossi and i am new to this forum. 

I've been browsing for a few weeks here and i've been able to find a lot of great information!

I've tried this before using a ball crusher (powder form honey comb), HCL, Nitric...etc and i gave up because I was unable to bear the fumes!

I just recently purchased Lazer Steve's DVD and i'm excited for it to show up!

Either way - I own an auto recycling facility in Toronto, Ontario (Canada) and i'm looking into the risk/reward of refining PD PT and (HOPEFULLY) RH from the converters we get from our cars (150-300 per month!). That said - a few things that I was wondering

1) Does anyone have a rough idea of how much PT/PD/RH can be extracted from common vehicles? I KNOW this varies but i am looking for a report or just a rough idea on just how profitable this may be. I mean we're all willing to handle acids, time, fumes...etc for something and that something has to be profit, right? So my main question is - on a GM converter (Breadload, Tahoe...etc) or Import (Civic or Mazda) does anyone have a yield report? For example - "I leached a GM breadloaf cat and i got XX GRAMS of XX and XY Grams of XY" Just so i can see. From what i understood, in the past - i was told to expect up to 1 OZ of PT from as few as 3-4 standard GM converters. If this is the case - profit can be realized. Currently, for GM converters, we are paid about $150 each CAD in cash. Figuring standard 2 step distribution and 30% margins of profit - this piece must be worth $300 or so to the refinery that purchases it. My question is - how "worth it" is this??!! Of course, i get the converters (essentially) for free - but if i get paid $150 for a GM "Breadloaf" how much more can i get if i refine that same converter myself. 

2) Based on the answer above, if there is a good potential of profits to be realized - what equipment is necessary to get started? The most common form of extraction is leaching (from what i see) and i am not against it - but i would love to hear / see some of the benefits of smelting - i feel that is safer and I can have access to purchasing that equipment much easier - depending on the process! What equipment do you need? How can i build it? How to handle fumes? (I'll be working indoors)

3) Are there any links, articles, or advise??? People i should contact? Anyone in Toronto want to partner up? Work together? 

Thanks!!

Steven Rossi


----------



## AndyWilliams (Dec 20, 2014)

I seem to remember that there were a couple of people on here who attempted to do the same thing. That is, team up, refiner and yard owner. From my memory, it never was "worth it" because of the large upfront cost, for the small amount of return, and the time it took to get that return.


----------



## necromancer (Dec 20, 2014)

may you may want to look into removing the ceramics from these & sending them to a refinery ?

it may be more profitable to send out loads every 6 or 12 months then to hire a "on site" person to recover the PM's

there are many posts here on refineries in north america.


----------



## stevenrossi (Dec 20, 2014)

I agree with your point - in the future, if this option doesn't turn out well for me - i will look for a refiner. However, it is more "curiosity" that makes me wonder just how much converters yield for refiners. I suspect that there has to be decent profits to be realized for refiners to send trucks from the US to Canada to buy, even at $150 - $200 per piece. 

Any other insight or yield ideas?


----------



## ferrous (Dec 22, 2014)

stevenrossi said:


> I agree with your point - in the future, if this option doesn't turn out well for me - i will look for a refiner. However, it is more "curiosity" that makes me wonder just how much converters yield for refiners. I suspect that there has to be decent profits to be realized for refiners to send trucks from the US to Canada to buy, even at $150 - $200 per piece.
> 
> Any other insight or yield ideas?



i find higher end cars / older have a better return vs aftermarket or your average honda civic or ford escort. based of my buyer i have to separate them all to get a better return


----------



## nickvc (Dec 22, 2014)

The forum had a member that spent 100s of thousands of dollars trying this and decided that the best method was to crush, sample, assay and sell on to the big boys with huge arc furnaces.
Their charges are less than you lose in the substrate you can't filter the solution from, if you have quantities, plus getting all the values into the solution isn't the easiest.


----------

