# New recycling business



## chozenboi (Dec 20, 2011)

After starting with simply picking up scrap computers off of craigslist and having mild success, I stepped it up and took some notes from Chris's business model. There are a lot of commercial recyclers in my area as well as a lot of backyard recyclers with craigslist and freecycle ads. However, very few of them pickup and none of them payout. So, I offer to payout a modest amount and pickup in my area. I price out my payouts to be able to pull the fingers off to process myself and sell what's left to Chris making a tiny profit after shipping costs and other expenses. I know the prices I list for payout are a lot less than Chris's, but I need to figure in my pickup, disassembly, and sorting time as well as fuel, insurance, web hosting, etc. In doing this, my gold fingers are basically free, resulting in my gold buttons being 100% profit. I know I'd possibly make more sending Chris the complete boards and ram without the fingers being cut off, but what's the fun in that?? I know I've read on here before that if you buy the raw materials, you aren't going to make money. But, I've been keeping track of all of my expenses and income and made all of my money back that I invested in an acetylene torch, glassware, website startup, chemicals, lazersteve's videos and supplies (thanks Steve!) in 2 months plus some. I'm in my 4th month and consistently making enough to keep it fun and worth doing. The biggest problem I have thus far is explaining to the wife a couple times a week that I'll be 30 minutes late for dinner because I'm pickup up more "computer crap" as she lovingly refers to it.

Still being new to refining, I'm sticking with processing fingers using lazersteve's A/P method until I have more time to devote to learning other methods of processing other scrap. For now, Chris gets it most of it.  Any pentium pros I get are put on ebay with a percentage of the sale going to my favorite charity, Make-a-wish. The cases, power supplies and everything else that isn't cost effective to ship is recycled locally. 

I've accumulated a large amount of gold plated pins that I'm going to attempt to use the sulfuric deplating cell as my next method study. I'm not ever looking to process complete boards or anything that requires an incinerator. I just want to learn some things, have fun with my son tearing apart some computers, and make a little money doing it. I've dabbled in regifting donated working computers back to the community, but so far most of what I've received hasn't been from this century to make it worth it to anyone beyond an AOL chat room at 14.4kbps speed. :roll: 

My questions:

1) I'm interested in processing CPUs "in house" next. Is this the next logical advancement? From the reading I've done here, it doesn't appear too difficult, but there appears to be a lot more that can go wrong if it's done incorrectly and a broader variety of methods to process the different types of cpus. I'm a chemical technician by trade, so have the safety portion down, but am still new to learning the methods. I love teaching my 15 year old son about the processes, reactions, safety, patience and payoff for motivation and intelligent work. Thoughts?

2) Can anyone who has done anything similar to this venture offer up any advice for anything they may see that I may be doing inefficiently or just plain wrong? Feel free to pick it apart and offer up brutal honesty. I have a thick skin. The website is http://www.earthfriendlyrecycling.net

Thanks everyone, especially Steve and Chris. And, sorry to be a lurker all this time.. It's never easy typing with acid gloves. 8) 

Eric
earthfriendlyrecycling.net


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## gold4mike (Dec 22, 2011)

You're doing almost exactly what I'm doing.

I too buy cards with fingers, leaving enough cushion to be able to clip the edges off and still sell for a profit. I'm now keeping all the RAM, even after I've cut off the fingers, since Patnor posted his excellent how-to guide for processing the chips from them.

The profit on motherboards, steel, aluminum and copper have paid for all my glassware and chemicals and I now have more infrastructure than I really need. 

I'm processing the higher grade (based only on appearance) pins using poorman's nitric since NAPA sells battery acid in 5 gallon quantities at a good price. Most pins I'm currently processing belong to someone else and it's a hassle to clean out the deplating cell before it's maxed out so I do them as a batch.

CPU's were my next step also and I'm getting better at using just enough poorman's AR to leave just a bit of base metals after the first dissolution to make the second fairly clean.

My goal is to break even cash wise and continue to accumulate as much gold as possible for when TSHTF. That's why I've taken on refining scrap for others for a percentage of the gold. 

This is all still a side business to my side business so the main thing I'm lacking now is time.


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## chozenboi (Dec 25, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback gold4mike, it's good to know I'm not completely crazy. I'm going to dabble in the gold deplating cell hopefully within a couple weeks after I get settled in from my move. I've got quite a bit of stuff to send Chris soon to clear out some of my shop space. It's amazing how fast that stuff accumulates. From a purely business standpoint, I've read here that it's too time consuming, cost prohibitive, environmentally or health hazardous to do anything yourself aside from some card fingers, some cpus, possibly some ram chips to make the time and effort worth the payback. What's the official word on this? I can't see processing whole motherboards or daughterboards myself ever, but what about the touchpad boards that Steve stripped with NaOH? Worth the time to do yourself? What else have people found that is a decent return on time/energy investment for backyard/garage processing?


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## 4metals (Dec 25, 2011)

> I've read here that it's too time consuming, cost prohibitive, environmentally or health hazardous to do anything yourself aside from some card fingers, some cpus, possibly some ram chips to make the time and effort worth the payback



I personally have only seen the large scale side of reclamation and I've often wondered if it is feasible for a small scale scrapper to refine electronic scrap and make a living. I would sure like to hear from a few small scrappers to get an idea of what a small scale full time scrapper can average in PM yields if processing themselves.


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## chozenboi (Dec 25, 2011)

Well 4metals,

I tend to accumulate fingers and do them as a large batch. It takes very little extra time to process 5 lbs of fingers versus 1 lb of fingers. I always tend to get pretty consistent yields using Steve's AP method. There are a lot of factors involved in actual yield, but I can usually tell by looking at the overall content of fingers and guess within a a couple grams what the end result will be. My only personal experience with refining myself has been with the gold card and ram fingers and some sterling silver refining. I've found I'm not as fond of cementing silver and dealing with nitric when seeing the nice shiny gold button after a gold run. As far as making a living, I highly doubt that the average Joe could make a living doing backyard refining. I stay very busy getting a constant supply of raw materials and would need to quadruple my current intake, processing, shipping, and scrap resale capacities to make what a full time minimum wage employee makes. :roll: That's just me personally though. I can't speak for the rest of the small scale scrappers.


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## 4metals (Dec 26, 2011)

The one guy locally that I know who does this full time has an in at the county recycling collection center and he gets a lot of circuitry for free and all from one spot so there is a minimal effort. 

I know he is selling 2 1/2 to 3 ounces every 4 to 5 weeks because I take it into the city to sell it for him. He also has silver and palladium which he hasn't sold yet. Don't know his overhead but he works from his house and doesn't use too much chemical. He does it full time and has lots of time to play.


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## chozenboi (Dec 27, 2011)

3 oz at $1600/oz = $4800 average per month x 12 months = $57,600 per year (presumably tax free). That's not bad at all for full time work. I like my full time job and keep this side deal as a side deal. It's mostly to bond with my son, teaching him the fruits of efficient labor, business sense and ethic, and being honest and safe. I enjoy creating an atmosphere for him where when he wants a new xbox game or money for the movie theater, he has an idea how much work and effort it requires to earn the money he's going to spend. Teachings like this are becoming more rare nowadays with more businesses not allowing minors to work. Kids can't even get paper routes any more.


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## butcher (Dec 28, 2011)

"It's mostly to bond with my son, teaching him the fruits of efficient labor, business sense and ethic, and being honest and safe. I enjoy creating an atmosphere for him where when he wants a new xbox game or money for the movie theater, he has an idea how much work and effort it requires to earn the money he's going to spend. Teachings like this are becoming more rare nowadays with more businesses not allowing minors to work. Kids can't even get paper routes any more."


chozenboi, I agree and we wonder what has happening to the younger generation, heck they think they just need to drug them up on attention dependent drugs so they will not see the what is happening around them, or even react like they should, do not teach them hard work, responsibility, or any morals, well I am not going to say anymore It bothers me too much.

Thank goodness we still have people with common sense raising their young-uns, it means we still have a glimmer of hope, chozenboi , I salute you and your son, and hope both of you prosper in the metals trade and life.


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## chozenboi (Jan 3, 2012)

Butcher,

Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately, you're absolutely right. When my son asks for new games and I point him toward the pile of towers that needs to be disassembled, it's no wonder I don't get accused of running a child labor sweat shop. If the only thing that I teach my son is that if you want something, you can have anything, if you work hard and smart enough for it.


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## spooks69 (Jan 8, 2012)

I plan to put my 12 year old daughter to work. She needs to earn that Cell phone..LOL

www.thortekrecycling.com


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## slickdogg (Jan 8, 2012)

spooks69 said:


> I plan to put my 12 year old daughter to work. She needs to earn that Cell phone..LOL



My 9yr old daughter is somthing else, last week i had a stack of old nintendo games, i was removing the boards from, by the way.....(these have nice fat fingers, and large Ic's)
she decided she didn't want to watch she wanted to help.
well now she has gold fever!

I only get my kids on the weekend ( nasty divorce )
This weekend she came over, with my two boys....ones 11yrs the other is 13yrs 
all they want to do is play there video games :x 
However, my daughter comes to me and says: "daddy what are we getting the gold from next"
I said "don't you want to do other stuff, color or play games....she says no "i have more fun taking stuff apart with you" then she says "don't worry daddy you don't have to pay me like a real job"
it was too cute, guess you just had to be there.
so i spent yesterday tearing things apart with her :lol:


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## butcher (Jan 8, 2012)

don't worry daddy you don't have to pay me like a real job"

She means pay in gold, smart girl she wants real money.

Enjoy every second you can they grow up so fast.


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## Harold_V (Jan 9, 2012)

slickdogg said:


> ...she says no "i have more fun taking stuff apart with you" then she says "don't worry daddy you don't have to pay me like a real job"
> it was too cute, guess you just had to be there.


Cute, indeed!
I have but one child (I think she's mine----but I don't know that she is). From age 15 to the present (she's now 48 years old), she has referred to me as harold (that's assuming she has referred to me at all). We haven't spoken in years, and I expect we never will again. 

You are one lucky guy! I'd be thrilled to have a child that thought of me as her dad, and wanted to spend her time with me. Well done! 

Harold


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## Smack (Jan 9, 2012)

That's great Slick, need more of that going on these days. The wife and I couldn't have kids, you know we tried like hell though. December 30th was our 20th, I got lucky with her, just no mini-me, but we have fun. Got my brother and sister's kids that were a hand full. Anytime I thought I had to have a kid I would go spend the day with my brother's 4 kids. lol


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## seauatthetop (Jan 9, 2012)

Good day everyone I'm new to the board .The cost to do recovery from a to z can a small start up make money


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## Smack (Jan 9, 2012)

It can. Will it? Buy low sell high is the name of the game.


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## spooks69 (Jan 12, 2012)

Or pick up your raw material for free!

With 100 Emails, and some word of mouth...I have an appointment tomorrow to pick up some stuff, I have to get a U-Haul to grab 4 pallets of pc's and servers on Tuesday, and then go to another school to get 20 pc's on Thursday.

I'm in a VERY under served market. And am the ONLY Tech Recycler to offer free Pick up. All of this and I just decided to start this business last week. Start with Schools! But be prepared to take CRTs too.


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## chozenboi (Jan 16, 2012)

Spooks69 and anyone else,

How are you approaching government agencies such as schools? Are you going through the administrative offices or directly to each school? Who usually handles the old computers for the schools? Who is your first contact? I'm doing well with the public, but I could do much better.


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## Smack (Jan 16, 2012)

By now most every place is set up with what they are doing weather it's someone picking the stuff up for free, paying them for it or paying to get rid of it at a recycling center like some around me are still doing :roll: . I had one place tell me that the place that takes their stuff is certified by the DEQ., so I went out to my truck, got my book and showed them proof that there is no such thing. Didn't really say much after I showed them that so I think they were either bs-ing me or just feeling me out, or maybe even someone knows someone or is related. If someone wants to let me take the stuff for free or even pay me to take it that's fine, but unless what they have is some seriously laden with PM's scrap I'm not paying a dime for it, it's way too much work and very time consuming. What I get for free keeps me busy enough, besides if it gets to the point where I can't keep up and I have to hire people and God forbid set up payroll for more then 2 people, it has turned into just another job or business. On a side note: The State of Michigan used to have monthly auctions for years and sold all used computer equipment from all over the state right in Lansing. I went for about a good 10 years when I was working on computers, fixing them up and reselling them. After that market went to hell I stopped going around 05, and now they don't even have the auction anymore. I think what happened was some large recycling company lobbied the state to get a contract for all of it, someone like Great Lakes Electronics maybe. Just my opinion, that's usually what happens if you have enough money to pull it off and there is money to be made.


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## chozenboi (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm overrunning a lot of "pick up for free" outfits by purchasing escrap. I still put monthly ads on freecycle offering to pick up items which gives me a nice pile to cash in on, but it also nets me a bunch of items I really don't want since I take everything they need to get rid of instead of cherry picking. On the items I buy, I'm pricing it to make a reasonable profit. I ask for a minimum pickup amount outside my local area to make it worth the drive. I'm just looking for more ideas to continue to make a profit and moderately increase my intake base.


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## swainmarshall (Jan 20, 2012)

Recycling is a business tool as well as economic development tools. recycling is one types of change direction development responsibility and opportunity for communities. there have also developed skill and quality of care . in that business are regularly update and change with market position.


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## joem (Jan 22, 2012)

This is a good thread.
I also include my kids, they trim wires, remove screws, and sort boards, then we go on saturday mornings to the scrap yard and recycle center and count the cash together. With some extra money we head for sushi, korean, or mexican, they really love to eat diffrent foods. 
But yeah it's a family affair and I'm hoping to teach them to be self sufficient when the needs arise if all possible. They have been asking when I'm doing my next foils so they can see the gold again.


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## Claudie (Jan 25, 2012)

slickdogg said:


> spooks69 said:
> 
> 
> > I plan to put my 12 year old daughter to work. She needs to earn that Cell phone..LOL
> ...



That's worth more than all the Gold in California....


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## spooks69 (Jan 25, 2012)

chozenboi said:


> Spooks69 and anyone else,
> 
> How are you approaching government agencies such as schools? Are you going through the administrative offices or directly to each school? Who usually handles the old computers for the schools? Who is your first contact? I'm doing well with the public, but I could do much better.



Sorry I've been crazy busy. I set up a mailchimp.com account and emailed all of the "Tech Coordinators" in a 3 county area. I just picked up a free lcd projector that still works! and have added a lot to my fingers bucket!


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## pinwheel (Aug 30, 2012)

Getting stuff for free is easy. That is the easy part. Its too early in the market cycle to be trying to out compete people like me by paying for the materials. You will also have to deal with crack heads who steal everything they bring to you which is not a great way to do business. You will get buried by labor costs unless you have prison labor or over the border labor. I run it as a business and have acres of stuff stacked 2-3 gaylords high and it never stops coming in from everywhere all the time. The real challenge is building a streamlined tear down system and afford the manual labor costs to tear it all down and keep up with the flow. I am at the stage where figuring all that out is crucial. 6 years into it I am only now making a small post tax profit and have yet to ever get an actual paycheck. We use only american labor which seems to be rather rare in this industry.

If I were just doing this as a hobby I would not go down the take everything for free route. I would focus only on circuit boards and maybe whole pc towers so that my manual labor would be minimal. I would probably make more just doing that. But we are trying to build a business that will eventually span the entire united states. My payoff will come later if it ever comes.

There are a lot of secrets in the industry and no one is going to help you learn anything because every time a vendor teaches you something they just lost money or created competition. Everything you learn must be learned the hard way by doing it yourself. At least that is how I did it. You will never stop finding new ways to make money from this stuff. I am still trying to sort it all out.


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## Meh1 (Oct 15, 2012)

Ill tell you how I started getting into this type of business. At the beginning of the summer I was working a full time job. And like most of you gentlemen and ladies on this forum you want to work smarter. So this led me to getting into scrapping any and everything people wanted to get rid of for free with the main money coming in from: copper, aluminum, brass and steel in that order. Took me about a month of doing this in my free time to be able to pay my bills doing it, just a slight learning curve at the beginning. Being in school for electrical engineering I knew at least a little about the precious metals content within electronics. I was also able to see where electronics recycling was starting to head (witnessing first hand what is wasted by schools, and in industry, not to mention the waste generated by the average citizen), towards a massive boom. So it became almost natural to start looking into it further. Thanks to all who post their invaluable hard earned information on this forum . It has been an education and I know enough to be dangerous at this point and learning more each day :shock:. Now then on with my narrative, I started to talk to local businesses and wham I have more electronics than I could possibly process by myself (I had hoped to finish school before creating a business and now that is not going to happen: good problem to have, not complaining), so i approached a few other bright friends about getting in on it. They are more than on board and in fact I have a teacher helping in the process of making it a full fledged business, he was integral in convincing me that now is the time to create a business plan/business. A strike while the iron is hot type thing. As yet there is no one in this entire region, about a 150 to 200 mile ring, that does this type of recycling. So this is definitely a viable business idea for this region. Now that all being said we are moving slowly towards an eventual goal of having a large scale operation. And now I would like to pose a few questions for the experts on this site. I'm not asking to be hand fed, but I would like to know: how have you started your businesses? Did you start very small and move towards the larger scale? Or did you get business loans and go straight for the larger scale operation. Is it viable to work from not only electronics but also junk jewelry? Is it better to not get a business loan and save over time, towards the eventual goal of scaling up? I appreciate your advice. Thanks for reading my long winded post. And I hope that I have maybe helped to answer the original poster at least a little with my own experience. Warmest Regards -John


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## butcher (Oct 16, 2012)

John,
I ran a small business for several years to make a living, I chose to start small reinvesting profits back into the business, and let the business grow, this worked for me.


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## Meh1 (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it.


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## nickvc (Oct 18, 2012)

John you seem to be a sensible young man so use that brain. The last thing I would want is to be thrown headlong into a business I didn't fully understand and having the bank looking over my shoulders 24/7. Start small and build your business, if it makes good money expand the operations slowly, if you need staff when you decide you need two new workers employ one If I remember the figures correctly a member of staff has to make 3.5 times his salary to pay his way. The early struggles, balancing the books and been owner, receptionist, salesman, toilet cleaner, tea boy and labourer give you a full view of how your business operates for the time when and if it arrives to take it to the next level. Enjoy the business or get out, I know several very very successful businessmen who work harder and longer, take less holidays than their staff and will probably leave some very wealthy relatives when they shuttle off this world who do not enjoy the success they have achieved, work has become an addiction, beware money is only useful for what it can buy and the good it can do if used properly.
I wish you luck and hope you find the way forward, in honesty no other person can answer the question what should I do, but you!


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