# 100% ethanol (not at Daves place)



## Research135 (Aug 23, 2015)

What is the simplest way to make 100% drinkable ethanol?. I know the azeotrope is around 96.5% ethanol from whatever source, and that's what Everclear brand bottles and sells commercially (with good margins too!).

I'm looking for a way to make 100% pure ethanol, without benzene or other toxic processes in the middle. I've read that some type of desiccation using oleum/sulphuric acid is practical. I don't know. I'm looking for a simple setup rig, to produce clean ethanol. It doesn't sound like rocket science. 

Thanks guys.


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## 4metals (Aug 23, 2015)

HMMMM......

I know this thread has drifted a bit, but Dave did say he had a stream and some solar potential on the roof so that was fine but do you know something of Dave's brewing abilities he has yet to reveal? 

This is a valid post for the bar and grill but I am splitting it off to its own thread in the bar and grill.


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## Research135 (Aug 23, 2015)

4metals said:


> HMMMM......
> 
> I know this thread has drifted a bit, but Dave did say he had a stream and some solar potential on the roof so that was fine but do you know something of Dave's brewing abilities he has yet to reveal?
> 
> This is a valid post for the bar and grill but I am splitting it off to its own thread in the bar and grill.


 Thanks Doctore. After reading many posts of yours, I would definitely want to read your opinion about this topic. Cheers!. :lol:


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 23, 2015)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 
I swear, I haven't tried to distill any spirits in many years! Now, I have to admit, one of the things I'm looking forward to in the new place is brewing my own beer again. My wife disliked the smell of the cooking, and life got too busy, so I haven't brewed a batch in far too long.


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## Research135 (Aug 23, 2015)

FrugalRefiner said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> Now, I have to admit, one of the things I'm looking forward to in the new place is brewing my own beer again.



Hehe. I suspected that much!.


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## maynman1751 (Aug 23, 2015)

> Now, I have to admit, one of the things I'm looking forward to in the new place is brewing my own beer again.



Hey Dave! I'll drink to that. :lol:


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## 4metals (Aug 23, 2015)

The benzene is used in a process to form a ternary azeotrope and it forms its own azeotrope with the water in the ethanol / water azeotrope. But something about adding benzene to something for human consumption is daunting. Then again drinking 100% ethanol isn't exactly something fit for humans either!

Anyway, I have heard of using a desiccant of calcium oxide followed by separation of the insolubles (calcium hydroxide) and re-distillation sans water. It is primarily not a separation by distillation but by the chemical reaction between the calcium oxide and the water. 

I'd rather have a bit of contamination from lime in my ethanol then benzene. Lime may give you a bit of gas if ingested but benzene is a carcinogen. And I believe benzene is what historically made people go blind from too much moonshine.


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## jason_recliner (Aug 24, 2015)

FrugalRefiner said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> I swear, I haven't tried to distill any spirits in many years! Now, I have to admit, one of the things I'm looking forward to in the new place is brewing my own beer again. My wife disliked the smell of the cooking, and life got too busy, so I haven't brewed a batch in far too long.


I should say so, with not one but two good sized sheds in which to do your, er, "refining"! 8)


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## Anonymous (Aug 24, 2015)

4metals said:


> And I believe benzene is what historically made people go blind from too much moonshine.



I believe you'll find it's methanol mate.


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## jason_recliner (Aug 24, 2015)

Yep, methanol. And it's so easy to get rid of when distilling (you could do it with a thermometer or just your nose) that I wonder whether moonshiners are simply going for quantity over quality. Or enjoy the splitting headaches. We don't know much about the 'shiner culture from over this side of the pond, except what we saw in The Dukes Of Hazzard or similar.

When I was a kid it was true methanol they put into "metho" (methylated spirit). No idea what they use now. But it is so well and truly burned into my olfactory memory that I can still detect it in some wines that have probably spent too long on their skins.

[Edited to remove grammarlessnesses]


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## Research135 (Aug 24, 2015)

4metals said:


> The benzene is used in a process to form a ternary azeotrope and it forms its own azeotrope with the water in the ethanol / water azeotrope. But something about adding benzene to something for human consumption is daunting. Then again drinking 100% ethanol isn't exactly something fit for humans either!
> 
> Anyway, I have heard of using a desiccant of calcium oxide followed by separation of the insolubles (calcium hydroxide) and re-distillation sans water. It is primarily not a separation by distillation but by the chemical reaction between the calcium oxide and the water.
> 
> I'd rather have a bit of contamination from lime in my ethanol then benzene. Lime may give you a bit of gas if ingested but benzene is a carcinogen. And I believe benzene is what historically made people go blind from too much moonshine.


That sounds better and safer than the sulfuric desiccation. Thanks.


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## Lou (Aug 24, 2015)

Do not use sulfuric! Ethyl sulfate esters are potent alkylators.

Best is to ferment mash with Turbo yeast and distill, throwing away the first bit and the highly odorous last but, then distill the azeotrope over lime. You also use, I believe, 3Angstrom zeolite to remove water.


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## g_axelsson (Aug 24, 2015)

In electron microscopy opened bottles of water free ethanol is stored with what they call "Molecular sieve" which is a class of porous substances, including zeolites and some clay minerals.

I wonder if it would be possible to add 4Å molecular sieve to ethanol, let it absorb some of the water, reform it with heat and repeat until the water is gone. The 4Å variety is approved to use in contact with food items.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_sieve

Göran


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## Lou (Aug 24, 2015)

3A zeolite is what you want for water over EtOH. Zeolite = molecular sieve. 

Using alcoholic DMG for Pd analyses, you can buy tax stamp free ethanol. I think it's $5/gal or so as 200 proof USP ethanol.


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## Research135 (Aug 24, 2015)

Cheers gentlemen!.


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## goldenchild (Aug 25, 2015)

Whoa whoa whoa! You guys are way overcomplicating things. Like lou said make some mash (water, corn, sugar, yeast) let it ferment for a week and distil. You'll get some high proof tasty spirits. Or so I've heard.


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## justinhcase (Aug 25, 2015)

I have a number of friend who home brew and get offered "Russian spirits" by the local Polish Community.\
I have always abstained from fear of nasty impurity's .
How would you test a liqueur to see if it is consumable?
There should be a reagent for each possibility.
if a reliable test where known it might save a little misery from accidental poisoning .


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## MarcoP (Aug 25, 2015)

In my area we have 98% (that's what they say) spirit from honey bees, not sure how it's exactly made, but mix it with almonds milk and you have my favorite drink.


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## justinhcase (Aug 25, 2015)

MarcoP said:


> In my area we have 98% (that's what they say) spirit from honey bees, not sure how it's exactly made, but mix it with almonds milk and you have my favorite drink.


I like Mead which is made from honey.
Not sure I would like a drink made from Honey Bee.
Poor old things work hard enough as it is ,they have better things to do than get processed into a liquor :lol:


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## MarcoP (Aug 25, 2015)

justinhcase said:


> MarcoP said:
> 
> 
> > In my area we have 98% (that's what they say) spirit from honey bees, not sure how it's exactly made, but mix it with almonds milk and you have my favorite drink.
> ...


Ops, i meant from honey ... just realized honey bee is the actual name :lol:


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## rickbb (Aug 25, 2015)

justinhcase said:


> I have a number of friend who home brew and get offered "Russian spirits" by the local Polish Community.\
> I have always abstained from fear of nasty impurity's .
> How would you test a liqueur to see if it is consumable?
> There should be a reagent for each possibility.
> if a reliable test where known it might save a little misery from accidental poisoning .



My dad always lit a small cap full of his "shine" on fire and looked at the color of the flame. 

Blue color that is almost not visible is supposed to be pure, any red color to the flame is suppose to indicate the presence of lead. At least that's what he always went by.


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## Anonymous (Aug 25, 2015)

rickbb said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > I have a number of friend who home brew and get offered "Russian spirits" by the local Polish Community.\
> ...



Hehe Rick really? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxd_CH2NIWE

Meths has and always will burn blue 8) 8)


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## Lou (Aug 25, 2015)

Anyone who knows anything about distillation knows to throw away the foreshot, that is the first bit of distillate (methanol), as well as the end where the fusel oil starts to come over. 

Anyway, the cure for methanol poisoning/blindness is in fact ethanol, so keep a bottle of known good booze and one can deal


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## goldenchild (Aug 25, 2015)

Lou said:


> Anyone who knows anything about distillation knows to throw away the foreshot, that is the first bit of distillate (methanol), as well as the end where the fusel oil starts to come over.
> 
> Anyway, the cure for methanol poisoning/blindness is in fact ethanol, so keep a bottle of known good booze and one can deal



Yup. The foreshot should be proportionally very little. Even when distilling hundreds of gallons the amount of methanol is quite unsubstantial. The tails won't hurt ya but will taste crappy.


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## jason_recliner (Aug 25, 2015)

goldenchild said:


> Lou said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who knows anything about distillation knows to throw away the foreshot, that is the first bit of distillate (methanol), as well as the end where the fusel oil starts to come over.
> ...


It doesn't take much methanol to ruin it though. And unfortunately some people just can't comprehend the concept of measuring. The boiling points of methanol and ethanol are far enough apart to make it dead easy. I gave some cider to a mate to distil for me. Unfortunately he throws away the heads (or foreshot as you call it) by fixed volume rather than by checking when it's ready by temperature, smell or taste. So now I have one giant bottle of undrinkable metho instead. But at least it takes up less space!

I need my own "ethanol cleaning" machine...


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## Anonymous (Aug 26, 2015)

In the UK you can get banged up for owning a still - - is it the same in the US?


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## Lou (Aug 26, 2015)

Oh it's the same in the colonies. There are, of course, exemptions, hoops, hurdles, red tape you name it, but you can distill if you want to play by the rules.

Like most things, it's about money--tax money.


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## jason_recliner (Aug 27, 2015)

This colony too.
My local brewing shop sell items "For distilling your own water, sir. Up to 5 litres," which is legal.
There are also large reflux heads for sale, but without pots. General purpose contains which 'just happen to be the same size as the heads' are for sale a few feet to the left.


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## justinhcase (Aug 27, 2015)

Personally i find distilled liqueur to strong to be good for me and sworn of them meany years ago.
may be a little brandy after a good meal but that is about it.
If you are drinking enough to justify a still of your own your liver can not have much time left.
Better to buy your drink and string out the detrimental effects.
As Henry Charles Bukowski said....
Find what you love and let it kill you. Let it drain from you your all. Let it cling onto your back and weigh you down into eventual nothingness. Let it kill you, and let it devour your remains.
For all things will kill you, both slowly and fastly, but it's much better to be killed by a lover.


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## Research135 (Aug 27, 2015)

jason_recliner said:


> This colony too.
> My local brewing shop sell items "For distilling your own water, sir. Up to 5 litres," which is legal.
> There are also large reflux heads for sale, but without pots. General purpose contains which 'just happen to be the same size as the heads' are for sale a few feet to the left.


I believe the "general rule of thumb" to be: Distill it and drink it, or burn it, or whatever, but don't sell it without a license, taxes, etc. I guess you can ever "barter" with it, and be ignored, unless in large scale. In some muslim countries, you can get executed... so there goes the "general rule of thumb".


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## jason_recliner (Aug 27, 2015)

justinhcase said:


> If you are drinking enough to justify a still of your own your liver can not have much time left.


Who said anything about justifying it? :lol:


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## Anonymous (Aug 27, 2015)

jason_recliner said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > If you are drinking enough to justify a still of your own your liver can not have much time left.
> ...



Hehe good answer Jason. Don't see the difference between having a 'still and brewing your own beer/wine though Justin. It's all alcohol and saying that one type is likely to lead to liver failure more than another is merely semantics.


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## justinhcase (Aug 27, 2015)

To brew a good wine or beer take's some real skill and good ingredient's,only one of my fried can do it right.
Where as distilled liqueur is easy enough until you get to aging ,I have always thought it would be interesting to get hold of a good old brandy barrel and see if cheep grain alcohol would take on the subtlety of a drinkable whiskey.
I was always brought up to water my whiskey so you can actually taste what is on your pallet,I know the modern take is simply to down your shot with out it touching the side's.To me that is much like drinking orange squash concentrate with out any water.
Even Monkeys eat fermented fruit but once it become to strong a liqueur through distillation greater care is called for. There is a great difference to your gut form 5% and 40-100%.
To be quite honest it was one incident that put me off the stronger stuff,I and some friend had Sunday lunch with wine then brandy&coffee, just as we where leaving some bright spark bought a round of Absinthe.
Then to be polite every one in the group also bought a round of Absinthe which no one could polity turn down,I wish I knew what happened next,I have absolutely no Idea until the next morning.
I stay away form strong liqueur now,still feel ill just thinking about it.


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## Research135 (Aug 27, 2015)

IMO what gives you the hangover is not the ethanol, but the "other stuff" in it. Absinthe being particularly nasty. If you drink half a bottle of clean vodka (a lot for most people), and follow it with a lot of water (to combat body dehydration caused by the ethanol) before going to bed, you don't even have a hangover. At least I don't


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## Shark (Aug 27, 2015)

If you like a sweetish tasting liquor, try substituting a small amount of white raisins for part of the yeast. It will give it a distinctive sweet flavor. I have used it to make wine for years, that is if you like your wine around 50-60 proof, :mrgreen:


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## Anonymous (Aug 28, 2015)

Research135 said:


> IMO what gives you the hangover is not the ethanol, but the "other stuff" in it. Absinthe being particularly nasty. If you drink half a bottle of clean vodka (a lot for most people), and follow it with a lot of water (to combat body dehydration caused by the ethanol) before going to bed, you don't even have a hangover. At least I don't



Good point and true. I was actually going to reply to Justin in that vein because let's face it if you're going to pick the worst liquer to get wasted on, and suffer a major hangover then it's probably that horrible nasty chemical concoction they call Absinthe!

The original recipe from the Victorian era contained opiates, the new version is just slime...


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## Research135 (Aug 28, 2015)

Yes. That Artemisia_absinthium plant has an allucinogenic alkaloid. Good to get rid of worms though.

Similar story with tequila and mescal: It's the alkaloids in them, that give you the bad trip, not the ethanol.

That's why my original query was how to make 100% pure ethanol. I can add clean water later, or lemon juice... or what have you. No need for rat poison (Strychnos nux-vomica, or its cousins) in my drink...


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## justinhcase (Aug 28, 2015)

Much of absinthe's dubious reputation is due to often-repeated urban-legends and rumors based on misinformation, exaggeration, 19th century politics and media hype. History and science do not bear them out.
To further confuse matters, unscrupulous modern marketers in under-regulated countries exaggerate these myths, combine them with modern falsehoods, and use them as marketing gimmicks to lure the credulous thrill-seeker.
To put it concisely: Absinthe is an anise and wormwood flavored distilled spirit, made from aniseed, fennel and wormwood. Absinthe takes its name from the main adjunct flavoring aside from anise, Artemisia absinthium. The common French name for this species is “grande absinthe”.
Although it is often referred to as a “liqueur”, this isn't really accurate today, since according to the modern definition of liqueurs they are pre-sweetened; absinthe is not. Technically, absinthe is an aperitif spirit, a before-meal tipple. Pre-sweetened absinthe was known as crème d'absinthe and was of considerably lower proof.
Although wormwood-infused drinks have been used as medicine and beverages for thousands of years, when we speak of “absinthe” we are evoking this very specific distilled spirit that rose to popularity in France and Switzerland beginning in the 18th century.
There are many traditional drinks from around the world that contain Artemisia absinthium wormwood—vermouth, Scandinavian besk, Polish piolunowka, some aquavits, etc.—and yet they are not absinthe. It takes more than simply including wormwood as an ingredient to be able to be justifiably categorize a spirit as absinthe. Authentic, pre-ban style absinthe will have these characteristics:
• Contains Artemisia absinthium wormwood as a primary ingredient.
• Has a main characteristic flavor of aniseed and absinthium wormwood.
• Does not contain sugar or other sweeteners. (it will not bear the term "liqueur" on the label)
• May have a mildly, but not exceptionally bitter taste.
• Colored by infusion of natural herbs, although there are also clear, uncolored types. Does not contain artificial or FD&C colors.

Other traditional absinthe ingredients include petite wormwood (Artemisia pontica), melissa (Melissa officinalis) and hyssop (Hyssopus officinalis).But not Opium!!In the eighteenth century Opioid's where commonly added to drinks to one's taste form a tincture the consumer would carry with them.The problem being the tolerance's to opioid's each person had was so diverse a standard liquor that would not instantly kill a first timer would have no affect on some one with a moderate tolerance. 

Instead Absinthe is very high in alcohol content, usually in the 55% to 72% range (110 to 144 proof); for comparison, whisky is generally around 40%, or 80 proof. Absinthe, a high-proof concentrate, is intended to be served diluted with iced water at a ratio of approximately three to five parts water to one part absinthe. Alternatively it is used in small proportions as a cocktail ingredient, much like bitters
Thujone, the primary volatile oil in wormwood, is present in only in trace amounts in absinthe due to its resistance to distillation, and is safe at these levels. The current “100mg thujone” and “ extra strong” hype on many absinthe retail sites is a "legal high" marketing gimmick aimed at the gullible and uninformed. The role of thujone in the so-called “secondary effect” is greatly exaggerated, as is the effect itself.The similarity in effect to THC was an untested conjecture in the mid-1970s and is unsupported by later studies. Thujone is a dangerous neurotoxin at large concentrations and is NOT a hallucinogen or a psychedelic and has no reasonable recreational potential.

The base of the problem is again alcohol and at the concentrations found in off the shelf versions do represent a very large problem to any one who imbibes that kind of concentration, Yet an other modern misnomer drinking very strong spirit's that where meant to be watered down straight.


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## jason_recliner (Aug 28, 2015)

spaceships said:


> Research135 said:
> 
> 
> > IMO what gives you the hangover is not the ethanol, but the "other stuff" in it. Absinthe being particularly nasty. If you drink half a bottle of clean vodka (a lot for most people), and follow it with a lot of water (to combat body dehydration caused by the ethanol) before going to bed, you don't even have a hangover. At least I don't
> ...


Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.


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## Research135 (Aug 28, 2015)

Research135 said:


> What is the simplest way to make 100% drinkable ethanol?.
> *I'm looking for a simple setup rig, to produce clean ethanol.* It doesn't sound like rocket science.
> 
> Thanks guys.


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## rickbb (Aug 28, 2015)

If your only looking for small volumes for personal use, you can use a lab glass ware distillation setup. No need to make anything when you can just buy what you need from any lab glass supply house. Couple of flasks, a condensing tube, some hoses to connect to running water, and viola! You have a still.



Both my brother and I did that for our "science fair" projects in high school. (We come from a long line of "do it your selfers.)

Used the old family recipe using malted corn, watered it down to about 60% alcohol to make it smooth enough to stomach. 

Then dad "confiscated" it of course. :lol: And the school wasn't real keen on it, but we both got A's.

Edit to add:

And if you want peach brandy, just add some syrup from a can of peaches to flavor it. Women like it better that way. 8)


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## Research135 (Aug 28, 2015)

My inlaw aunt and cousins from Italy, buy the 96.5% pure stuff (with huge taxes) from the store, then add lemon peels and sugar, and make a somewhat 50% liqueur called "limoncello", only for family consumption (illegal to sell, etc). It smells and tastes very, very good. A little shot is served with/after coffee, after each of those marathonic 5-7 course meals that go from midday to 7 p.m. 

They told me they want to make their own alcohol, from sugar or potatoes, instead of buying the overpriced, taxed, stuff.


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## Research135 (Aug 29, 2015)

Found this pic on the net. Amongst others it's a diagram I like. Sizes can be easily customized. I like 50 gallon drums!. Comments welcome!.


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## rickbb (Aug 31, 2015)

Really small volume.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Educational-7-400-2-Distilling-Apparatus/dp/B006582LF8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441032262&sr=8-1&keywords=distillation+kit&pebp=1441032265394&perid=11GG6VJ9SG1KZZK15N9B

A years worth at one time.

http://www.amazon.com/10-gallon-WHISKEY-upgraded-thumper/dp/B00V5BG0YS/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1441032458&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=5+gal+distillation+kit


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## goldenchild (Aug 31, 2015)

rick,

I think something like this would be a little better (master distillers kit). http://www.pelletlab.com/distillation_equipment seems that you could control your heat better. I already have a few condensers and all the glass. I'm thinking of getting the 2000ml heating mantle to do my 69% nitric runs.


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## Geo (Aug 31, 2015)

My grandfather was a locally known man for making very good moonshine. He passed that knowledge down to my mom who taught it to me. Using fifty pounds of dry corn. Use whole corn and keep it wet and covered by a blanket until it sprouts. Cook the sprouted corn until it gets very soft. Let it cool until it can be handled with a bare hand. Mash the corn into a fine pulp. Add the corn to a fifty five gallon drum and one pound of yeast and fifty gallons of water. Let the "still beer" ferment for seven days. Remove the small bung and install an adapter to reduce to three eights threaded. Attach three eights copper tubing about a foot long and attach a small canister that you can place a fitting in both ends. Attach the tubing to one fitting in one end of the canister. The canister is called a "thump keg" because of the sound it makes. Make sure the thump keg is horizontal. I have found the canister from older model vehicles emissions control works good. Attach a length of copper tubing to the other end of the thump keg that will coil and can be run through a tub or bucket and seal where the tubing goes through the bottom. Fill the tub or bucket with ice water and replace ice as it melts. Heat the drum to 175° but do not exceed 210°. Once the thump keg starts thumping, the alcohol will start flowing soon after. You can expect 5 gallons of relatively pure alcohol from fifty gallons of still beer made with fifty pounds of corn. The next five gallons contain a small amount of alcohol and is used to "cut" the the first five gallons to make a good 100 proof.


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## Research135 (Aug 31, 2015)

Thanks all for the posts and the recipes.

Geo: Isn't fermented sugar supposed to give a cleaner and cheaper alcohol yield?. Corn seems such a waste of a resource.

What's the most reasonably precise procedure to get rid of methanol, at the beginning?.


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## Geo (Aug 31, 2015)

:lol: :lol: I did say moonshine.


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## rickbb (Sep 1, 2015)

Geo said:


> :lol: :lol: I did say moonshine.



Also known locally as "corn licker"


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## goldenchild (Sep 2, 2015)

I always liked hillbilly pop.


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## justinhcase (Sep 2, 2015)

I was brought up on Poitín.
But that is kind of hard to come by in south west England so have to make do with single malt's and brandy now a day's.
Considering the state some of the old boy's use to get them self's into this is not a bad thing :roll:


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## Anonymous (Sep 2, 2015)

justinhcase said:


> I was brought up on Poitín.
> But that is kind of hard to come by in south west England so have to make do with single malt's and brandy now a day's.
> Considering the state some of the old boy's use to get them self's into this is not a bad thing :roll:



Oh? You said further up the page that you stay away from strong spirits, or have you begun drinking the hard stuff again?


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## justinhcase (Sep 2, 2015)

spaceships said:


> justinhcase said:
> 
> 
> > I was brought up on Poitín.
> ...


A watered whiskey before a meal and a brandy after is S.O.P. for most gentlemen.
I have found Hitting the vodka or strong corn liquor to be extremely detrimental to the digestion a thing I longer imbibe.
Quality Not Quantity old boy,Quality Not Quantity.
You know well how discerning my pallet is.
but then again where I was brought up when we say drinking we mean Drinking.
A good number of my friend have pate instead of a liver so I am very glad to have learned the difference .


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## Research135 (Sep 2, 2015)

According to the Bible, Noah invented the thing... so it can't be that bad... :lol:


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## justinhcase (Sep 3, 2015)

Research135 said:


> According to the Bible, Noah invented the thing... so it can't be that bad... :lol:


I do hope we can stay above Noahide Law on this forum.
If we are going to start using religious text's to guide our actions we may be in a little bother.
One man picked up sticks on the Sabbath, he was taken into custody because a punishment was not known. The LORD told Moses that the man in custody must be killed.
I do a heck of a lot more than that most Sabbath day's 8)


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## Geo (Sep 3, 2015)

TSK TSK!! You guys should know better. This is an international forum so please leave any reference of religion at home.


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