# How to clean stainless pan...



## snoman701 (Feb 28, 2017)

Ok, lets say you had a stainless catering pan that had been used for the most vile thing you can think of. Chemical or biologic.

How would you clean it so that you would be comfortable using it to boil down sap to maple syrup? As an added challenge, you are then going to feed this maple syrup to your 2 year old daughter.

I struggle wit this a lot. It sounds goofy, but mixing labware and food ware would be really nice once in a while...but i have to be confident that it's clean. 

For example, right now I'm trying to develop a candy idea of my daughters...and being able to do it in the lab would be SOOO nice. To have things like precision glassware, temperature controllers, etc.


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## UncleBenBen (Feb 28, 2017)

*DO NOT MIX LABWARE WITH FOOD!!!*

Sorry mods for the yelling. But it's as simple as that!!!


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 28, 2017)

UncleBenBen said:


> DO NOT MIX LABWARE WITH FOOD!!!
> 
> Sorry mods for the yelling. But it's as simple as that!!!



*DO NOT MIX LABWARE WITH FOOD!!!*

Now that's yelling.

Dave


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## UncleBenBen (Feb 28, 2017)

Thank you Dave! I don't feel so self conscious now!!

Snoman, what if you cleaned and cleaned and thought OK good enough. Could you live with yourself if you had to take your kids for chelation therapy? 

It sounds drastic, because it is. The dissolved metals we deal with contaminate everything. There is no safe way to make it 'clean' once it's contaminated. Just don't do it!

Pfew! Stepping down from the soap box now! No ill intent meant man, just whole hearted concern.


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## snoman701 (Feb 28, 2017)

So are you saying that if you were doing food grade work, you would only use brand new bright and shiny labware?


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## UncleBenBen (Feb 28, 2017)

If I was doing food grade work I wouldn't worry about poisoning my kids!

DONT DO IT!

Edit: How do I make big red letters?


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## snoman701 (Feb 28, 2017)

UncleBenBen said:


> Pfew! Stepping down from the soap box now! No ill intent meant man, just whole hearted concern.



Not at all....I have forever had this concern. I know certain food establishment owners that pick up catering pans and such from the scrap yard all the time...it weirds me out, because I know what I do in some of those pans. I have a cast iron dutch oven that I've melted lead in. I won't sell it or scrap it without breaking it in half first, because it's a griswold. 

I've got the buckets at the trees right now, collecting sap. I won't use anything other than food grade buckets, brand new. I figure if anything, the fact that you boil off 95% of the "solvent" makes it that much more important to use food grade wares. It concentrates it!

And all of this, and the syrup needs, got me thinkin...I could really use a big stainless catering pan right now. Have I just been being stupid paranoid all my life? If I am, at least I'm in good company. 

Thank you!

Although, I will admit, In college I used my corning hot plate & a thrift store cast iron pan to generate applewood smoke for my cardboard box smoker. I'd probably do it again. lol


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## UncleBenBen (Feb 28, 2017)

Thank you, snoman. You had my blood pressure up ready to hunt you down!

Just never, ever, ever, mix labware with food. College is a little different. I starved while I was there and ate a lot I probably shouldn't have!!

Edit; wouldn't mind a pint of that good syrup though!!


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## snoman701 (Feb 28, 2017)

UncleBenBen said:


> Just never, ever, ever, mix labware with food.



lol...i really want to reuse the gallon jug i brought my distilled water home in, for sap....but i can't bring myself to do it because it's been in the lab. i can't remember doing anything bad with it, but i have also been living in a new house for four months and can't remember the street address. or the zip code.


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## Geo (Feb 28, 2017)

Get a 30 quart turkey fryer. It should hold at least five gallons at a time.


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## UncleBenBen (Feb 28, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> UncleBenBen said:
> 
> 
> > Just never, ever, ever, mix labware with food.
> ...




Like I said! If it's been in the lab. It's off limits for food!

I scrambled my brain drinking ammonia by accident. But with enough study you will regain your faculties!! :lol:


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## snoman701 (Feb 28, 2017)

Geo said:


> Get a 30 quart turkey fryer. It should hold at least five gallons at a time.



I had considered it, but it's too tall....you want low walls. Keep the area spread out so it collects lots of heat and lets off lots of steam, then doesn't condense on the walls.

Lots of guys use a big ole barrel stove, then weld (or drop in) in a pan of their own creation. There's still some lead seamed tin work out there. 

Prolly just use a nesco baking pan, that way I can hook a temperature controller up to it to keep it from burning. 

This is my first time, if I like it, I'll fab up a proper boiler for next year.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Mar 1, 2017)

Go to a thrift store and find a corning pyroceram quiche pan or pie pan.

They have plenty of surface area for evaporating quickly.

I love corning. It's a godsend.


I found the quiche pan on the left for $1.99
The pie pan on the right was $3.99

These ones are my houseware. All of the ones that have went out to the lab, stay out there.. Even if I just took it out of the cabinet, put ice in it, and took it to the shop. It stays. Paranoid? Over cautious? Probably. But, I'd rather be safe than sorry.


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## kurtak (Mar 1, 2017)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> Go to a thrift store and find a corning pyroceram quiche pan or pie pan.



Topher - that's not going to work for cooking maple sap down to maple syrup - you need MUCH more capacity as well as MUCH more surface area for cooking sap down to syrup --- it takes MANY GALLONS of sap to get a gallon of syrup 

Its been a couple years now since the last time I cooked syrup - but the last time I did it was a banner year for the sap run & the sugar content of the sap was higher then normal --- we were pulling about 600 - 800 gallons of sap "per day" for something like 2 & a half to 3 weeks (so literally thousands of gallons of sap) If I remember right our net syrup at the end of cooking was about 130 - 140 gallons - there was 3 of us working it & each of us keep 25 - 28 gallons for personal & we sold a 55 gallon drum to a wholesale buyer

Here are some pics - in the last pic you see most of the steam being vented out the back of the sugar shack which was assisted with a high speed high volume fan - & even the steam would sometimes build up so think in the sugar shack so thick you could hardly see the cooking pans

Kurt


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## Topher_osAUrus (Mar 1, 2017)

Holy cow.

I had NO idea it was that intensive of a process. Thats incredible.
Thank you for sharing Kurt (and setting me straight).

Sounds like it must be a labor of love.


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## kurtak (Mar 1, 2017)

Here are some pics of our sap collection set up - the last of our trees (end of the line) was about a 1,000 yards back off the road - so we had 3 - 55 gallon barrels we would dump the sap in - then seal the barrel & put compressed air to it to push the sap out to a 450 gallon tote in the back of the truck


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## kurtak (Mar 1, 2017)

The cooking pans - in these pics the pan are just "starting" to heat up so there is not a lot of steam being produced yet

the pans are 7 foot long by 3 & a half foot wide


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## 4metals (Mar 1, 2017)

We have had sap running for 8 days now here in N.E. Pennsylvania. This year it's taking about 45 gallons of sap to get a gallon of good syrup.


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 1, 2017)

You've got my mouth watering, Kurt!!   

You just can't beat some real maple syrup! Come to think of it, we haven't had any in a while. Going to have to plan a road trip to visit with Mennonites and stock up on some stuff!!


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## 4metals (Mar 1, 2017)

We were traveling last week (by car) and always stop to eat at Cracker Barrel. I had pancakes and their maple syrup, which looked a bit thin. Now it is called all natural syrup, 60% Maple 40% corn. All natural, true but not natural Maple syrup. 

Damn you have to read all the labels these days!


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## anachronism (Mar 1, 2017)

I'm a Brit. Maple syrup sucks. Its horrid. Bring the hate.


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## 4metals (Mar 1, 2017)

Please Jon, you make it so easy!

If you didn't cut all the trees down over there you would still appreciate a good thing!


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## anachronism (Mar 1, 2017)

But but but....

It's squidgy and horrid and gross.


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 1, 2017)

anachronism said:


> But but but....
> 
> It's squidgy and horrid and gross.



Squidgy? That's a new one on me! :lol: 

You obviously have never had my wife's pan cakes, or my mother's good southern biscuits, smothered in real butter and real maple syrup! Haha!! :mrgreen:


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## 4metals (Mar 1, 2017)

He's likely confusing it with Aunt Jemima's 100% corn syrup with artificial coloration.

From an actual cooking taste test the top 3 were all genuine Maple syrup!

http://www.epicurious.com/archive/everydaycooking/tastetests/maple-syrup-taste-test

But what can we expect? They love a desert called Spotted Dick over there?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_dick

How about some spotted dick with maple syrup? Naahhhh I'll pass!!!


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 2, 2017)

4metals said:


> How about some spotted dick with maple syrup? Naahhhh I'll pass!!!



With a side of penicillin perhaps!?! :shock:  
:lol: :lol:


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## snoman701 (Mar 2, 2017)

Do you do your finishing in those pans as well Kurtak? 

Did you plumb each individual tree to a central collecting tank? or have to go around dumping buckets? If central, what diameter tubing do you run from the tap to the tank? Happen to know polymer?


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## kurtak (Mar 3, 2017)

snoman701 said:


> Do you do your finishing in those pans as well Kurtak?



That's kind of a yes & no answer --- the pan on the left (first pic in third set of pics of OP) was used as a preheat/evaporate "starter" pan - in other words cold sap would go in that pan where it would start to heat up as well as start evaporation 

Then the pan on the right (same pic as above) had a divider in it dividing the pan into a front compartment of one third of the pan & a back compartment of two thirds of the pan - if you look close at the pic of the pan (this post) you can see the divider --- the front one third compartment was the "finish" compartment of the divided pan

So - when first starting out the pan on the left (first pic in third set of pics of OP) was filled with cold sap as well as "both" compartments of pan on right

Then - as the sap level evaporated down in both pans - sap was transferred from the back compartment to the front compartment of the divided pan & sap from the "starter pan" transferred to the back compartment of the divided pan & then the starter pan topped off with cold sap again

So the flow was - cold sap goes to starter pan to preheat & start evaporation - then preheated sap transferred to back compartment of second pan (as level goes down) to "continue" evaporation/concentration - which is then transferred to front compartment as level goes down where evaporation/concentration continues until that compartment becomes full compartment of syrup --- which is then drained - compartment washed - refilled & cycle restarted/continued 



> Did you plumb each individual tree to a central collecting tank? or have to go around dumping buckets?



Per the underlined - no - that is normally a "vacuum system" where a vacuum is used to "draw" the sap from the trees to the central tank --- & the vacuum lines are normally put in "permanently" (left year around) 

The trees we tap are on someone else's property - the land owner did not want permanent lines running through his woods 

So we had to use collection bags that hang on the tree taps (first pic of second set of pics of OP) - because the trees we tap go back 1,200 - 1,500 feet off the road we set up a system using 55 gallon drums & compressed air to transfer the sap from the woods out to the truck (see pic of drawing)

The way it works --- sap collects in bags on trees - bags are emptied into buckets - buckets emptied into 55 gallon drums - when drum is full drum is pressurized with compressed air which pushes sap out to truck

Drums are set in locations so you don't have to carry sap to far - drums are laid on ground with small bung hole at the bottom with sap transfer line attached - large bung hole at top - 2 inch treaded elbow with funnel (in large bung hole) used to fill barrel - when barrel is full - elbow/funnel is removed & replaced with large bung cap with air line fitting - barrel is pressurized to transfer sap to 450 gallon tote in back of truck

Sound like a lot of work - but its not really - three of use could collect & transfer about 600 - 800 gallons of sap from the woods to the truck in about two & a half hours 

At the beginning of the season we can lay the system out AND tap all our trees in a day - at the end of the season we can roll the system up - pack it out & haul it home in about a half a day

Kurt


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## kurtak (Mar 3, 2017)

anachronism said:


> I'm a Brit. Maple syrup sucks. Its horrid. Bring the hate.





> But but but....
> 
> It's squidgy and horrid and gross



:lol: - personally I am not a real big fan of maple syrup ether (but I am not a big fan of sugar to start with - other then in my coffee)

I do it for two reasons --- money & fun :!: 

Money = $15 per quart = 60 per gallon X 130 gallons = $7,800

$7,800 divided by 3 people working it = $2,600 divided 3 weeks work = $866 per week

Though that may not be great money - its not bad money - AND ---------

Its 3 buddies spending some time out in the woods together after a looong winter - AND - while keeping an eye on the evaporator pans & stoking the fires - we play cards - drink LOTS of beer - & tell old stories of our exploits in life (hunting, fishing, old girl friends, etc. stories) 8) 

OK - so we tell a bunch of lies - or at least stretch the truth a bit (or a lot) :twisted: :mrgreen: 

Plus you make the rounds to other cookers to see how they are doing - drink more beer - tell more stories (OK - more lies) 8) :mrgreen: 

All in all - its about 3 weeks of fun & a good time had (OK - so by the end - its more like "had by a good time") :twisted: 

All with the bonus of making some money to boot :!: 8) :mrgreen: 

Kurt


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## snoman701 (Mar 3, 2017)

I've seen both setups around here...where you've got the PVC all over the place, then quite a few guys with buckets hanging.

Actually, I've never seen the bag method, it's interesting...going to have to check in to it some more.

It's not something I'll ever do for money (although I should, I could probably set up the fence-rows of some local farm land with a vac system on the cheap). 

I first learned of it on accident when I was a kid. We cut a branch off a maple tree and dad showed me how the sap was sweet. So I started collecting it in a bucket. Pretty soon, the bucket was full. 

Twenty years later, my brother in law says, "I tapped the trees this year with the kids and made this" tiny jar of syrup. 

And fifteen years after that, my daughter asked what the little shack in the front of a "neighbors" property was for. I told her that they make trees bleed, collect the sap, and turn it in to syrup. She was intrigued. So, I popped some plastic T's in to the trees in our yard and plumbed it to collect in a five gallon bucket.

If she enjoys it, maybe we'll make enough to give to close friends and family next year. She has already said that she does not like the taste of "tree water". Personally, I like it, but can't have much of it. I think I'm on the edge of being diabetic, so I try to save my guilty pleasures for those of the chocolate variety.


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## 4metals (Mar 3, 2017)

If you think too much urea in aqua regia (added too fast) can boil over..... that's nothing compared to boiling syrup. You get to a point where, if you are not careful or you're in too much of a rush, and boom, over it goes. Sticky nasty clean up.

Up here you run a ring of animal fat around the finishing kettle and if the boil gets up to the ring, it just drops instantly when it hits the grease. I know some guys hang a slice of fatty bacon on a string over the boiler for the same reason.


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## anachronism (Mar 3, 2017)

4metals said:


> If you think too much urea in aqua regia (added too fast) can boil over..... that's nothing compared to boiling syrup. You get to a point where, if you are not careful or you're in too much of a rush, and boom, over it goes. Sticky nasty clean up.
> 
> Up here you run a ring of animal fat around the finishing kettle and if the boil gets up to the ring, it just drops instantly when it hits the grease. I know some guys hang a slice of fatty bacon on a string over the boiler for the same reason.



So even the way it's MADE is gross. Eww just ewwwww.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 3, 2017)

When dissolving certain materials in a bucket, there is a possibility that it will foam over. When I suspected this might happen, I often used my finger to wipe a very thin layer of grease or oil around the top of the bucket (or, beaker). Like 4metals with the syrup, the foam breaks when it hits the grease. Just takes a little bit. I've used whatever was handy - stopcock grease, motor oil, etc., as long as it didn't contain silicone. Silicone tends to produce more gold "floaters" on the solution surface. One drop of silicone oil can totally destroy a plating solution.

The oil/grease on the side of your nose works well for this, if you can get enough of it on your finger. In emergencies, when I saw the foam was going to go over, I have quickly rubbed my finger on the side of my nose and then wiped the oil around the top of the bucket. Usually works. Might have to spray it also. This nose oil is quite special, as you can see in this link. Whether it's true or not, I've heard it only occurs in nature's creatures in 2 places, on the side of the human nose and in a shark's liver.

It's an old sign painter's trick to use this nose oil on your finger to quickly remove small amounts of wet oil-base paint when you've screwed up. It's amazing how thoroughly the paint is removed with 1 swipe and how easily the paint is removed from your finger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_sebum

In places where they rent rug shampooers, they usually sell anti-foam solution in small bottles. We all know that water from a spray mister will knock down foam fairly well. I used to put about an inch of anti-foam in the spray bottle and then filled it with water. Works better than water alone. Sometimes, though, the foam was rising too fast to use spray. In that case, I have quickly unscrewed the spray lid and poured a little of the anti-foam solution directly into the foam. Some brands of A-F work better than others. If I remember, Rug Doctor was weak and it didn't work as well as other brands. I did use it when nothing else was available.


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## 4metals (Mar 3, 2017)

Jon thought it was gross when I said to use food grade oils to kill the foam while boiling syrup, what do you think he would think about good old fashioned nose grease !!!!


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## anachronism (Mar 4, 2017)

Fatty slabs of bacon and nose grease..... Deep joy.

Seriously gentlemen you're not selling this one very well. 

I refer you both to my previous comment regarding grossness.


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## Geo (Mar 4, 2017)

I'll have to try the nose grease on my next process with sulfamic acid. If for nothing more than to see how it works.


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## jimdoc (Mar 3, 2018)

Automated Syrup System is Sweet Sweet Madness

https://hackaday.com/2018/03/03/automated-syrup-system-is-sweet-sweet-madness/


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## shmandi (Mar 4, 2018)

kurtak said:
 

> drink LOTS of beer


Unless you brew your own beer, you probably drink most of your profit


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## Palladium (Mar 4, 2018)

Maple! I'm with the Brits on this one!
Though we have Maple syrup, here in the South i'm a Sorghum syrup boy! 
Love to sop me some biscuits!!!! :mrgreen:


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## Shark (Mar 4, 2018)

Palladium said:


> Maple! I'm with the Brits on this one!
> Though we have Maple syrup, here in the South i'm a Sorghum syrup boy!
> Love to sop me some biscuits!!!! :mrgreen:



I love maple syrup, but good Sorghum with real butter and a hot biscuit is a meal in it's self.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 5, 2018)

Palladium said:


> Maple! I'm with the Brits on this one!
> Though we have Maple syrup, here in the South i'm a Sorghum syrup boy!
> Love to sop me some biscuits!!!! :mrgreen:



Sorghum's always been my favorite, too. Butter and sorghum together are the best thing on biscuits, period. My grandparents had little saucers at the table where they premixed the butter and sorghum. When I was a kid, there were local sorghum stands out in the country, where you could buy it by the jug. 

Maple syrup never turned me on - too thin. I sure like those maple candies in the shape of a maple leaf, though.


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## Palladium (Mar 5, 2018)

Ohhhhhh....... You had to remind me of the butter. 

Memories!!!!!!
We had milk cows and i remember pouring milk from the pitcher on my cereal and i ALWAYS wanted the cream off the top! I don't think to many people know what real milk taste like now a days. I learned to milk a cow when i was about 8-9 years old. Most people don't even understand the saying "The cream rises to the top".

Hot cornbread and fresh cold milk!


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## 4metals (Mar 5, 2018)

I'm in dairy country, I can get all the raw milk I need and skim the cream. Also my own homemade maple syrup, which happens to be in the middle of a run! 

At our church in the fall we have an oyster stew dinner, fresh oysters (they're not local) boiled in raw milk and biscuits with local honey. Good stuff!


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## Shark (Mar 5, 2018)

When I was 6 maybe 7 I remember feeding the cane into the mule drawn crusher. I was the smallest, so I could fit under the draw arm with out stopping. The up side was the feed man could chew all the fresh sugar cane he wanted, about 50 yards away were the cooker's where my grandmother worked the pans. Once all the family cane had been worked the whole system, workers and all, hired out to the next farm to get their cane cooked off. Those were good times as all that hard worked seemed like fun and not work at all. And we always had fresh butter and milk. I can always recall my grandmother sitting by the fireplace, in her rocking chair, working a churn. Now I am hungry again, :lol:


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