# Building an in ground baler



## rusty (May 9, 2011)

This baler is owned by Davis Trading located in Vancouver Canada, they purchased this machine over 40 years ago and it works daily. The bales are 2 x 3 x 4 ft, I'm told the copper bales weigh around 3000 lbs. I had Gabe send me these pictures this morning to refresh my memory of its construction, this is the baler I want to copy when I get around to building one for myself.

There is still a possibility that my baler could be trailer mounted making it easier to store when not in use or make it portable for other types of jobs like rent it out.

I want to be able to bale up my scrap tin, computer and microwave cases once they are gutted out. Last quote I had was $175.00 a short ton for baled tin..

I have a good running 6 cylinder diesel from an old school bus to run hydraulic pumps and a picker to load the baler with hot water tanks and appliances should I decide to go larger and portable. One of the criteria for bales is that they must weigh no less than 75 lbs per cubic foot for charging an electric furnace.

Right now I'm just tossing some ideas around, hell I may only end of with a small baler that makes briquettes or maybe nothing at all.

Regards
Rusty


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## silversaddle1 (May 9, 2011)

Strange. I don't know where you are located, but I get $240.00 a ton for that same type of scrap, loose. I think I would be looking for a hell of a lot more than $175.00 if I were to bale it. And you may want to look around on the net some. I have seen balers like the one pictured for less than $1000.00, in working condition.


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## Claudie (May 10, 2011)

I get $140 a ton....


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## rusty (May 10, 2011)

silversaddle1 said:


> I have seen balers like the one pictured for less than $1000.00, in working condition.



Your $1000.00 baler is probably for baling cardboard or plastic bottles. I want something with 25 tons or more behind it. 

There's an old garage in town with a car hoist, Hmmm I wonder if the in ground hydraulic cylinder would work for a baler, just think no hydraulic pump required just an air compressor.


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 10, 2011)

rusty said:


> silversaddle1 said:
> 
> 
> > I have seen balers like the one pictured for less than $1000.00, in working condition.
> ...



I don't think you will get as much pressure out of these. 3 tons are about thier max lifting weight.


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## qst42know (May 10, 2011)

I did a little searching for baled steel spot price. All seem to mention "shredded and baled". It will take a monster press to compact steel without shredding unless you stacked it carefully. Before you go to a bunch of effort you may want to find the industry definition of the product you want to produce it's possible there are none but it would be prudent to check.


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## rusty (May 10, 2011)

qst42know said:


> I did a little searching for baled steel spot price. All seem to mention "shredded and baled". It will take a monster press to compact steel without shredding unless you stacked it carefully. Before you go to a bunch of effort you may want to find the industry definition of the product you want to produce it's possible there are none but it would be prudent to check.



Good advice I hope that some forum members take heed with what your saying. Appliance scrap is classified as White Metal Scrap a grade above lathe swarf.

When you get into heavy iron which I dealt in. I torch cut everything into pieces 2' x 2' x 4' or smaller. In other words nothing larger was permitted to be graded as number 1 heavy melt which I shipped to Tacoma Washington. http://www.jsimonandsons.com

If you took in a whole caterpillar as scrap this would be graded oversize and would bring in much less money had you prepared it before shipping. Sometimes the cost of preparing the metal is not worth the time and labor. 

It's a tricky business and its more than I care to explain here as this is a precious metals refining forum and not that of dealing in scrap but we do get our fair share of light tin, aluminum and copper to deal with as none precious metals.

I have 50 plus years experience in the scrap trade, so I'm no noob when it comes to processing scrap. Knowing how to prepare and grade your metals before shipping is the key to success.

The decision to build a baler was not to get paid more for my metals, it makes sense that if I bale ( compact the tin ) I can ship more on the same truck than had I left it as loose tin. Same fuel with more pay load.

Regards
Rusty


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## seawolf (May 10, 2011)

If the main idea is just to take up less space for transporting to the scrap yard a smaller unit to just flatten the average computer case say 30" X 30" would be a lot easier to build and maintain. About the same area but only an inch or less thick. Five times the volume in the truck / trailer to the buyer. It will shred easier for him to.
Mark


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## rusty (May 10, 2011)

seawolf said:


> If the main idea is just to take up less space for transporting to the scrap yard a smaller unit to just flatten the average computer case say 30" X 30" would be a lot easier to build and maintain. About the same area but only an inch or less thick. Five times the volume in the truck / trailer to the buyer. It will shred easier for him to.
> Mark




Bales are easier to store and handle for loading, no worries about loose tin flying free from the load. I try to keep my trips to the city limited, it's a full day for me starting out at 5 am returning usually well after 9pm.

It was the same thing when I lived in B.C, the only difference is that I would leave the yard at 11 or 12 pm, grab a couple of hours sleep in the truck before the scrap yard opened. When you haul large loads of scrap your a target for the D.O.T. and let me tell you from first hand experience the men who wear the uniform should never have been given any authority over another.

They have the power to decertify your truck on the spot. I'm supposed to be retired enjoying life, not cramped up sleeping in the cab of some old truck. So you can see it's a bit more involved for me, than flattening some computer case's.

I know how to flatten washing machines and such like appliances, run a cat over them.

The very first car crusher I ever saw was a sheet of plate steel over 12 inches thick 6 ft wide by 10 ft long, they hoisted this sheet into the air then let it drop onto the car below sitting on a cement pad.

The second car crusher was a stationary unit operated with cables, if you have ever seen an old International TD 24 you could see first hand that cables were used instead of hydraulics to operate the blade.

I'm no new comer when it comes to heavy equipment, building a small press would be a piece of cake.

Regards
Rusty


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## trashmaster (May 15, 2011)

Don't underestimate the power of a cardboard baler;;; They are only limited by there settings..

Most cardboard balers are set to very low pressure settings::As in the pic's from your friend ,, he is not crushing the material only reducing the the space it takes up,, and making it easyer to load and transport.... 

I think a cardboard baler is just the thing for you on computer scrap and such,,, You will have to load it about1/4 full and compact it and see if this enough reduced in size for you ;;; might have to start with less material ,,, might have to campact several times and add a little more each time to get the bale size you want ...

You do not want to over load the compacter as some in to middle may not compact as good as that on top,,, so add a little at a time ...;;;;

as for the weight of your bale ,,, That furnace is fired up 24/7 anyway ,,, They do not fire it up just for small amounts of material.... 

Do a little research on balers ,,, I think that you will be surprised as to what yhey can do;;;


paul


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## qst42know (May 15, 2011)

trashmaster said:


> Don't underestimate the power of a cardboard baler;;; They are only limited by there settings..
> 
> Most cardboard balers are set to very low pressure settings::As in the pic's from your friend ,, he is not crushing the material only reducing the the space it takes up,, and making it easyer to load and transport....
> 
> ...



Don't overestimate the limitations of of the design. You can't just dial up the pressure switch in a cardboard baler and expect all else to hold. The pump, hoses, frame, platen guidance, and cylinder seals all have limits.


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## chrisp (May 15, 2011)

as far as scrap prices go, there are a few things that affect what your gonna get paid. #1 where your located in association with a MAJOR processing facility (ie a port or a train yard which leads straight to the port) #2 how much money you can make the dealer!!! of course the man with only a cut-apart storm door and a bag of cans that comes in on a bike is going to get 55 cents on clean extrusions compared to the guy with a flat-bed loaded to the hilt (which is going to be about 90 cents) in a scrap yard there are 3 pay classes 1st the guy on the bike(low), 2nd the people that bring a couple tons of assorted scrap every month or so(mid) 3rd and finally theres the guys that bring in at least 10 ton per week (ie steel, tin, aluminum, copper anything the dealer haddles alot of volume hope this helps someone or gives some ideas


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