# Starting a small refinery from start to waste



## 4metals (Sep 2, 2017)

Every once in awhile it is nice to start up a thread and get some new ideas and input. Back in 2009 I started a thread about an assay lab small refinery but it was centered mostly on karat gold refining assay and melting and other than assay techniques and a basic layout it didn't go very far. But today, in 2017 there are more members doing different scrap types and I think it's time to try this again. This is the original thread, http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=4789

An example of what can be improved on is waste treatment. It wasn't touched in the first thread but between that thread and now, most of our refining members use the basic waste treatment but since then there have been threads applying GSP's concept of wicking filters to treatment and maybe we should have a "waste treatment room" in this refinery and link other threads as well as summarizing for completeness. There are other things too, members have small silver cells using stainless bowls to refine their silver. There are guys running small copper cells after smelting their scrap. There's pyrolysis, Deano's carbon felt cell, and many other little tweaks that have been put together by members and maybe putting them all into one thread we can come up with the ideal "GRF Refinery Design" 

I'll start by saying the basic refinery needs a section for Aqua regia work, a hood and a scrubber would be ideal. We have beat these topics to death on this forum and there are threads dealing with how to make hoods and scrubbers but maybe links and photo's of what members have done and what is working will be helpful. 

Another option that is pretty handy is using a storage container as a refinery. The church I attend just purchased a 40 foot high bay container for a charity clothing program and I was pleasantly surprised that it only cost $2,250 delivered. While other members of the church were oohing and aahing about the size, I was thinking, wow, I could build a nice little refinery in there! I have even seen multiple containers linked together. I don't know the mechanics of the linking but interconnecting doors and passageways turn multiple containers into larger work spaces. 

So if there is any interest in this thread, lets start on what processes should be given space in the refinery. So who wants to make a list to start us off? Once we generate a list of what we feel is best to do in our little refinery, we can start going into detail about the different pieces of equipment needed to do it.


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 2, 2017)

In addition to things you've mentioned I can think of an area for weighing chemicals, metals, etc., a place for mixing testing reagents and other chemicals, storage for chemicals, labware, etc., and a melting area. 

Dave


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## Smack (Sep 2, 2017)

That's the thing though isn't it? Space...It boils down to exactly what your going to process because if you're only going to do karat scrap, the space can be quite small. On the other hand, if you're going to do any amount of electronic scrap, you'll need quite a lot more space. One good thing is if your starting out doing electronic scrap, having the space for karat scrap now becomes a non-issue.


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## 4metals (Sep 2, 2017)

A melting area needs to be (ideally) resistant to fire. So logically it is the same room where you can locate your burn out hood where a small scale refiner would incinerate sweeps with a torch in a frying pan as well as a pyrolysis chamber for pyrolysis of e-scrap. This only needs to be a 4 or 5 foot wide 30" deep sheet metal hood with a good exhaust blower. 

In this hood you could melt metal in a gas furnace, and with a combination of the gas furnace and a pyrolysis chamber a small operation could burn circuit boards for smelting. Realistically a hood this small would only accommodate a furnace with about a #10 crucible capacity, but that would handle 100 ounce copper anodes easily. 

A melt area or a dedicated room is a good place to start because everyone refining gets to the point where they need to melt, either by torch in small refractory dishes or in a gas furnace.


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## upcyclist (Sep 5, 2017)

Especially if we went with a modular approach (even if only in concept, as in "pick and choose the areas you need for your individual operation), those doing cyanide work will want a separate workspace and storage.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 5, 2017)

4metals said:


> A melting area needs to be (ideally) resistant to fire. So logically it is the same room where you can locate your burn out hood where a small scale refiner would incinerate sweeps with a torch in a frying pan as well as a pyrolysis chamber for pyrolysis of e-scrap. This only needs to be a 4 or 5 foot wide 30" deep sheet metal hood with a good exhaust blower.
> 
> In this hood you could melt metal in a gas furnace, and with a combination of the gas furnace and a pyrolysis chamber a small operation could burn circuit boards for smelting. Realistically a hood this small would only accommodate a furnace with about a #10 crucible capacity, but that would handle 100 ounce copper anodes easily.
> 
> A melt area or a dedicated room is a good place to start because everyone refining gets to the point where they need to melt, either by torch in small refractory dishes or in a gas furnace.



I had a huge reply typed out...but cant find which device it was done on.

The short version-
This burnout hood, same principle as a fume hood, cept flame retardant, correct?

Bag filters? Or another means of dusting recovery/volatized gold recovery?(cheaper than electrostatic means, anyways)?

Is melamine a suitable medium for ita structure? (Since asbestos is going to murder everyone, allegedly)

Do you have a drawing or a sketch of a design?

For some reason I see a mix between a fume hood, and a good kitchen exhaust fan (I only think of the latter, because you mentioned the furnace... I cant envision a furnace sitring in my fumehood)

I would love to have a good burnout hood, one thats SO good, I can safely do assays!

...sorry, guess that wasnt the "short versionv


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## Iggy-poo (Sep 6, 2017)

A Blacksmith's forge hood is a good alternative:
http://www.blksmth.com/Coal_Forge_Hood_1.htm


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 6, 2017)

Iggy-poo said:


> A Blacksmith's forge hood is a good alternative:
> http://www.blksmth.com/Coal_Forge_Hood_1.htm



I would like some method to recover any metals that get sucked up and out, whether it be from dusting or getting volatized off. 

To do this, I was wondering if an in line carbon filter would be sufficient, (they make high end activated carbon air filters for central air units). 

If not, what would be the best (cheapest, [I know those 2 adjectives don't usually go together] ) way to reclaim losses in the burnout hood.
I've read a fair bit about a bag filtration setup, but have yet to see a diagram of one for the small guy. 

I'm sure there must be more ways to get back the gold besides that and electrostatic means.


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## 4metals (Sep 6, 2017)

If you have a walk in type hood where you can stand in there and work over a furnace or slide in a metal work table to do torch work or small lot incinerating, it will be good to collect any soot or particulates that burn off. The typical blower for a melt operation is a steel squirrel cage, or better yet a heat slinger style blower where the motor is out of the heat path. Even though you are over the furnace, the heat is sucked out pretty quickly and I would think a slide in particulate filter could serve as a particulate trap. And they are simply changed from inside the hood as it only covers the exhaust hold that ties into the fan. 

A 8 foot wide walk in hood made by a tin knocker which is about 4 feet deep would serve well and be versatile. I could see mounting the melt furnace off to one side but having the air source and gas piping coming in from the rear wall so any roll about table could easily roll over the furnace without interference from piping. That could include a roll about pyrolysis drum to fit over the furnace and allow the furnace to burn off the volatiles from the pyrolysis process. 

A simple melter in a hood can now accomplish melting your metals or smelting pyrolyzed circuit board metallics and even a roll into place pyrolysis chamber. Multi purpose versatility keeps setup and operating costs down and makes you more versatile. The more materials you can process and process efficiently, the more industries you can serve. 

And if we did use the modular approach, the melt/hot room will only take about 10 feet of a standard container.


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## cuchugold (Oct 26, 2017)

For "refining" a few oz of gold or less per day, very little space or equipment is needed. A kitchen or a toilet space can be enough.

For "recovering" 3g of gold per Ton of dirt via cyanide heap leaching, you may need several football fields in an open terrain.

Recovering the lion share of a gold deposit in the middle of the amazon forest, with only once a month helicopter visits for fuel and food, and surrounded by critters, is again another problem.

I believe a "one size fits all" concept is a good mental exercise. Perhaps a list of processes and equipment for increasing batch amounts is a more useful exercise?. Just a suggestion.

I was HAuCl4 in a previous incarnation, but lost my password and old email access.

Since 4metals asked for a list, here's one:

1-Sampling and assaying, from quick and dirty to ICP.
2-Gold refining, 1 oz or less, 400 oz or less, bigger sizes. Purity from 995 to spectroscopically pure.
3-Silver, 1 oz or less, 5000 oz or less, bigger sizes. Purity from 999 to spectroscopically pure.
4-Platinum group, quick and dirty small sizes, to commercial sizes.
5-Mining and recovering.
6-Secondary recovery of metals electronic scrap, and catalytic converters. Small sizes to big industrial.
7-Whatever, and liquid waste processing and recovery of metals and chemicals used.


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## 4metals (Oct 26, 2017)

> I was HAuCl4 in a previous incarnation, but lost my password and old email access.



Welcome back old friend. It's been a few years!


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## philddreamer (Oct 26, 2017)

Welcome Back!
Did you have any dreams while in that "enchanted forest"!? :shock: 

https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=7329&hilit=gold+sphere&start=30#p69383 

Phil


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## nickvc (Oct 27, 2017)

Agreed nice to have you back on board, I still have to thank you for opening up the secret that was the Miller process all those years ago :G


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## cuchugold (Oct 27, 2017)

You guys are all too kind. Thanks. A little older and hopefully wiser. A lot to read to catch up!.

Plenty of giggles rereading that gold sphere thread. Thanks PhilD!.


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## anachronism (Oct 27, 2017)

Good to see you back. I read a lot of your old posts. 8) 

Jon


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## kurtak (Oct 28, 2017)

cuchugold said:


> For "refining" a few oz of gold or less per day, very little space or equipment is needed. A kitchen or a toilet space can be enough.



I Hope this is a reference to the amount of space needed for small scale refining & NOT a suggestion to do it in your kitchen &/or bathroom --- just saying - we DON"T what "new" members to get the idea its ok to do refining in their kitchen &/or bathroom because its NOT :!: :!: :!: 

NEVER do any refining in ANY part of your house :!: :!: :!: 

Refining is a "TOXIC" & CORROSIVE process & NEEDS to be done ether out side or (better) in a lab that is set up with proper fume control 

Kurt


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## snoman701 (Oct 28, 2017)

kurtak said:


> cuchugold said:
> 
> 
> > For "refining" a few oz of gold or less per day, very little space or equipment is needed. A kitchen or a toilet space can be enough.
> ...


Amen

I'm refining in my garage. I have adequate ventilation for the fume hood, but the garage in general does not unless I leave the attic fan on as stuff rusts just from my acid containers, etc.

Next spring I will be installing a refining specific building, as I can't afford to let all of my fabrication machinery succumb to rust, nor will I be able to afford heat while running adequate exhaust. Going to have to put up some temporary walls for winter.

I cannot stress this enough, ventilation and use specific space is a necessity. If you don't have it, do not refine indoors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cuchugold (Oct 28, 2017)

Fair points guys. I wish to focus on mining and recovery really, and not engage in fruitless discussions this time around. Peace. :G


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