# Electrolytic Cell Questions / Help Request



## Anonymous (Mar 2, 2009)

Hello all,

I've been reading everything I can find on this forum, I have Hoke's book and I've been watching Lazersteve's videos on the electrolytic cell. I have deplated about 1 pound of headers into the cell. Cell and header samples are shown in the pictures..

#1 Film of white stuff in the bottom of the cell~

I have a thin film of white compound now showing in the bottom of the cell. On a couple pieces I have deplated the gold and some of the nickel from from the headers but I wouldn't think it would have generated all of the white film. 

#2 Why so much foam?

The solution is foaming after only 5 minutes or so of deplating. The foam rises to about 1/2 to 3/4" thick after 10 minutes and I have to stop and wait until the foam settles to continue. One time the foam rose high enough to touch the SS anode while power was applied. I did not use glycerin in the solution because I have read here in the forum that it is not necessary. Im using "Liquid Lightning" drain opener for sulfuric acid. "Virgin Sulfuric acid with twelve buffers" is written on the label and the acid was much darker than I see in Steve's videos when brand new.

#3 Process ~

It is my understanding that when I am done deplating, I dilute and filter per Lazersteve's videos. Is that it with the cell method? Do I not need to precipitate? If not, i'm assuming lower purity gold in the end correct?

#4 How much for my first run?

I have already wasted some fingers trying the Ishor starter kit AR method with no success. I want to risk as little of my scrap as possible until I am succesful with refining a batch. I have deplated 1 pound of the headers shown in the picture into this solution. Do you think I have enough gold in solution to see if I can complete the process succesfully?

#5 Other info you may or may not need to asess my situation~

The lead cathode always bubbles when power is applied to my cell. I used a 1/4" 304SS rod for the anode instead of the plate used by Lazersteve. 

Thank you for your help. I appreciate all the information I have received so far from all of your posts.


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## lazersteve (Mar 2, 2009)

jobshop03 said:


> #1 Film of white stuff in the bottom of the cell


Likely a component of your 'twelve buffers' or possibly an odd material from some of your scrap. It shouldn't cause a problem in the long run.



jobshop03 said:


> #2 Why so much foam?


Twelve buffers. The best acid to use is boiled down battery acid from NAPA, $14 for 5 gallons of 35% H2SO4 or Technical grade concentrated H2SO4. Next best is likely the Rooto Brand as pictured in my videos.





jobshop03 said:


> #3 Process ~
> It is my understanding that when I am done deplating, I dilute and filter per Lazersteve's videos. Is that it with the cell method? Do I not need to precipitate? If not, i'm assuming lower purity gold in the end correct?


Check this post:
Black Powder from Cell

Black powder directly out of the cell is very dirty and should not be melted without cleaning.




jobshop03 said:


> #4 How much for my first run?


I typically run the cell for 12 to 24 hours of actual stripping time before harvesting. With high grade scrap you can process after 1-3 pounds and get a decent nugget. If the cell starts plating out on the positive side it's most likely saturated and needs to be cleaned.




jobshop03 said:


> Do you think I have enough gold in solution to see if I can complete the process succesfully?


 You should process at least 1 pound of good pins (no plastic weight included) before cleaning to test it out.

Steve


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## butcher (Mar 3, 2009)

maybe solder tin and lead?


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## Anonymous (Mar 7, 2009)

Ok. I have made it this far. From my sample batch (1 pound of plated material), It now looks like I have auric chloride  

Next I will drop the gold with storm precipitant and move on from there. Hopefully I will have enough gold powder to melt and see the final product before I process a large quantity of scrap.

Question #1

I made the auric chloride using the Muriatic acid / clorox method. What happens If I don't wait 12 hours for the chlorine to dissipate before precipitating? Yes, I'm going to wait but I really want to see the gold drop :roll:


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## butcher (Mar 7, 2009)

you can do light boil to remove the oxidizers that keep gold in solution redisolving the gold trying to precipitate.


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## lazersteve (Mar 7, 2009)

If it were me I would evaporate off at least half of the liquid in your beaker since you are doing a small quantity. This may help the gold form better clumps and not produce so fine of a particle size when the SMB is added. The very diluted solutions tend to produce very fine particles of gold which settle slowly.

Steve


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## Harold_V (Mar 8, 2009)

I agree with Steve. It's obvious, by the color of the solution, that you have very little gold dissolved. 

Harold


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## Anonymous (Mar 8, 2009)

Well, now i'm stuck. I waited 4 hours after producing the auric chloride, light boil on the hotplate for 15-20 mins added 2 teaspoons of storm precipitant to hot water and........ almost nothing. The solution cleared up a bit then stopped. No dark color, no precipitation.

I know there isn't much gold dissolved in the solution, but this is a trial run to know I have the process correct before refining a larger quantity.

Question #1

Is there anything I can do here to save the solution? Or do I just let it sit for another day to see if I get precipitate?

Question #2

I saw your posts Harold and Steve AFTER I tried to precipitate. If I can still evaporate and attempt to precipitate, can I evaporate with a light boil on the hotplate?

arrrgh :?


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## qst42know (Mar 8, 2009)

A couple questions on your material. 

How did you make electrical contact with each pin while they are still in the plastic?

Did you strip a pound of these including the plastic weight?

The blue card sockets you show in your photo are the type that contain precious little gold plating.

The slight dust on the bottom of your beaker may be all that was there.

Have you tested your solution for the presence of any remaining gold?


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## Anonymous (Mar 8, 2009)

qst42know said:


> A couple questions on your material.
> 
> How did you make electrical contact with each pin while they are still in the plastic?
> 
> ...





There is now a tiny bit of powder in the bottom of the pyrex container. If it is gold I would think that it is not even enough to melt. I would just rather not spend 10-20 hours deplating and not know that my process is correct. What should I do next? How could I test the tiny bit of powder in my solution? If I filter, I would probably lose it all in the filtering process.. my guess.


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## qst42know (Mar 8, 2009)

Test the *solution* for dissolved gold with stannous chloride. 

Pour the solution from the beaker carefully and no filter is needed.

Did you strip them while still in the plastic?


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## Harold_V (Mar 8, 2009)

The color of the solution after you attempted precipitation indicates to me that you have precipitated gold, but very little. As you've alluded, it settles, but can take considerable time. Allow the solution to settle until it is clear of any solid substances, then decant. A fine layer of gold will be found at the bottom. If you wash it using a good procedure, it may agglomerate and can then be handled. You'll have so little that melting may be a waste of time. Store it and combine it with future lots.

Be certain to test the solution with stannous chloride. While I am of the opinion it is now barren, that may not be the case. NO solution should be discarded without first testing with stannous chloride, which is known to be active. 

Harold


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## Oz (Mar 8, 2009)

Harold_V said:


> If you wash it using a good procedure, it may agglomerate and can then be handled. Harold



If after decanting you add a little bit of HCl/water 50:50 and heat on the hotplate it will clean it a bit of base metals that may have been dragged down. If you swirl it a bit a few times in the beaker while heating you should see the agglomeration Harold spoke of.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 8, 2009)

jobshop,

Since you posted the photo of the blue connectors, I've been curious as to how you ran them. Did you run each pin separately?

It looks like all the gold is out to me, although it looks minuscule in the photo.

Could the powder be copper(I) sulfate? Is it grayish? Does it dissolve in HCl?


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## Harold_V (Mar 9, 2009)

goldsilverpro said:


> It looks like all the gold is out to me, although it looks minuscule in the photo.


Yep, that's what I thought, too. The color of the solution is influenced by the miniscule particles of gold, giving it a strange coloration. I used to see that frequently if my gold came down fine enough. Often took the better part of a day to settle. You could see a distinct line of gold settling, with the area above the line clear of particles. 

Harold


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## Anonymous (Mar 9, 2009)

Yep I came back into the shop today and there looks to be a fine layer of gold on the bottom. I am going to siphon off the solution and test the powder at the bottom. If it tests for gold I will go ahead and run a big batch in the cell. Thanks everyone for the help so far. 

Steve


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## Anonymous (Mar 9, 2009)

goldsilverpro said:


> jobshop,
> 
> Since you posted the photo of the blue connectors, I've been curious as to how you ran them. Did you run each pin separately?
> 
> ...



To run a header in the cell:
I use 304SS wire .032 dia bent back over itself 3 times. This wire will then snap into the header and deplate all the pins. 


I am going to siphon and wash the solution, then test the powder at the bottom this afternoon. I will post what I find.


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## Oz (Mar 9, 2009)

Jobshop,

That is a neat and simple way to run those.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 9, 2009)

How long do you leave them in? Have you examined the pins to see if they were completely stripped? Where they touched the plastic? Where they are shielded from the current flow? I would doubt that they are completely stripped, but I may be wrong.


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## qst42know (Mar 9, 2009)

jobshop03 said:


> Yep I came back into the shop today and there looks to be a fine layer of gold on the bottom. I am going to siphon off the solution and test the powder at the bottom. If it tests for gold I will go ahead and run a big batch in the cell. Thanks everyone for the help so far.
> 
> Steve



Keep in mind stannous chloride does not reveal precipitated gold, only gold still in solution. 

How did you intend to test this precipitant?

On a very small amount it may not merit redissolving or the rinse steps. Combining it with the next batch of material from the cell may be the most frugal.


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## Anonymous (Mar 9, 2009)

goldsilverpro said:


> How long do you leave them in? Have you examined the pins to see if they were completely stripped? Where they touched the plastic? Where they are shielded from the current flow? I would doubt that they are completely stripped, but I may be wrong.



They stop foaming after 1 minute or so, I pull them out and I can tell they have been stripped. I see a nickel layer or copper, etc. After deplating I have looked at a few, bent the pins back and it looks like they all deplate. In some instances on a 48 pin header (ex.) 2 or 3 pins do not deplate. All you have to do is rotate the wire, deplate again and almost always the remaining pins will be deplated.


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## Anonymous (Mar 9, 2009)

qst42know said:


> jobshop03 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep I came back into the shop today and there looks to be a fine layer of gold on the bottom. I am going to siphon off the solution and test the powder at the bottom. If it tests for gold I will go ahead and run a big batch in the cell. Thanks everyone for the help so far.
> ...




How could I verify that the powder at the bottom of the solution is gold? I would like to prove my process before moving on.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 9, 2009)

From the photo, it looks exactly like gold. Put a little in a test tube, dissolve it in a few drops of AR, and test with stannous chloride.

Break a few pins out of the plastic to check for complete stripping. Dissolve the pins in 50/50 nitric and look for small flakes of gold.


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