# Gold and silver 2017



## solar_plasma (Oct 20, 2016)

Where do you see the gold and silver spot in 2017?

It seems to me everyone in Youtube and other media expect it to up again to 1800 or more. I have given up to see any logical necessity for it to go up or down, because there is more gold and silver out there, than there is needed by the industry. But if a critical number of investors expect something to rise, it will rise.


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## UncleBenBen (Oct 20, 2016)

solar_plasma said:


> Where do you see the gold and silver spot in 2017?



On the kitco banner at the bottom of the page. :wink: 
:lol: :lol: 


If gold does hit $1800, would that mean the economy will have likely tanked again as well?


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## solar_plasma (Oct 20, 2016)

:lol:

As I said, I do not see any absolute reason, why gold or silver would go up or down or stay where it is. It is nothing but crowd psychological effects, since there is no real shortage that couldn't be covered, substituted or avoided. The economy is what it is and I do not expect it to change anywhere. Again, what people believe regarding the economy might have a greater impact on the market.


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## Shark (Oct 20, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> solar_plasma said:
> 
> 
> > Where do you see the gold and silver spot in 2017?
> ...




Did I miss something? when did the economy make any great improvement?


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## anachronism (Oct 20, 2016)

I think the upcoming debacle oops election is going to have an effect.


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## UncleBenBen (Oct 20, 2016)

You nailed it there Shark!

We're probably screwed either way with what the outcome of the presidential auction will be. Bjorn's right, the masses are going to do and think exactly what the media tells them to do and think. So the real power to control the money is going to stay where it's always been.


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## anachronism (Oct 20, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> You nailed it there Shark!
> 
> We're probably screwed either way with what the outcome of the presidential auction will be. Bjorn's right, the masses are going to do and think exactly what the media tells them to do and think. So the real power to control the money is going to stay where it's always been.



You nailed it too BenBen. The manipulation of the media over here in the UK is atrocious wrt this election. One candidate has it all in their pocket because of the money people behind them. Then again, take my country and the Brexit referendum as an example of what happens when the public go against the establishment and the spin and vote with their true feelings. The result was a surprise that literally shook the world.


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## UncleBenBen (Oct 20, 2016)

I hear you there, Jon. I both hope and fear that the public will be causing the world to shake a lot more in the months and years to come. Once enough people realize what's really going on, it's going to get ugly. 

Makes me wish I would have gotten into this gold thing a whole lot sooner!!

As it stands now, I'll be relying a lot more on lead! :mrgreen:


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## g_axelsson (Oct 20, 2016)

Wait a minute... you mean the comedy series I've been watching is for real? Oh my dog...  

For the spot prices I think I will be right as usual, it will go up some days and down some days. It will still take as much AR to dissolve gold as last year and there will be 100 percent in every lot for me to skim a few for every lot I refine.

Business as usual in other words.  

As a final note, aimed as much to myself as anyone else. I know there is an election this year so I will accept comments as seen so far in this thread, but if you need to name a candidate or a party then you are probably talking politics and that is not good for the forum. There are plenty of other places to discuss that... just saying, you know.
I'm pestering all my friends by discussing politics.  

Göran


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## IdahoMole (Oct 21, 2016)

It doesn't matter who wins the election because either way half of the population is going to be irate and the country may well be un-governable. If she wins the US debt will continue to rise and must, at some point, collapse. If he wins it may still happen but at least we have a shot at some other outcome. Either way I see chaos and fear in the short term. Should be good for PM prices. And as mentioned, lead.


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## upcyclist (Oct 21, 2016)

g_axelsson said:


> For the spot prices I think I will be right as usual, it will go up some days and down some days. It will still take as much AR to dissolve gold as last year and there will be 100 percent in every lot for me to skim a few for every lot I refine.
> 
> Business as usual in other words.


That's where I'm at. I have silver/goldsmith friends that try to time their raw material buys to the market, and I laugh at them. Especially when the price continues to go down and they're already sitting on enough silver for 3 years' worth of jewelry. 

If you're investing and/or speculating, by all means care about the price of PMs. If you depend on PMs for your daily cash flow, it doesn't matter as much--you just save on the good days so you can ride out the bad ones.

And if you're both investing in them AND using them as a daily commodity, I highly suggest you do them separately. Invest with your profits, not your supply chain.


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## Geo (Oct 26, 2016)

If a large country decides to repatriate it's gold stores held in other countries, it can be seen as a crisis is about to happen. It causes other countries to pull it's gold and the effect snowballs out of control. It has happened before when Germany demanded it's gold back from the US in 2014 and 2015. https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-repatriates-more-gold-bundesbank-100251153.html?ref=gs

It is a fact that the US holds markers for more gold than it actually has in storage. People who buy gold coins regularly were often told that the gold they had already paid for could not be delivered. When pressed about it, they had to tell people there was no actual date or time when their gold could be delivered and all sales of gold coins and bullion stopped. After Germany, other countries were spooked and wanted their gold immediately. There first few were lucky and was able to get nearly all of their gold reserves such as China. I'm surprised that gold didn't spike again around this time. If the same thing happens again, it could actually lead to war. Countries store gold in other countries almost like an insurance policy. Or, that's the way it used to work. When a country demands it's gold back, it could point to hostilities between the two countries. If all countries decide they want their gold from the US, someone, or a lot of someones, is going to be very disappointed.


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## 4metals (Oct 26, 2016)

> It is a fact that the US holds markers for more gold than it actually has in storage.



The article didn't say that, it said Germany wanted metal back and it received it. When you talk of investors not getting their gold when they ask for it I think you are referring to the fact that more gold exists on paper than physical metal but I do not believe the Federal Reserve Vault in NYC has ever traded metal it doesn't physically have, it is a repository for physical assets. Now brokerage houses and big banks are a different story, but for now, I believe when a country stores its metal in a Federal Repository it stays there.

OK this is a cue for all of the conspiracy theorists to chime in. Please support all claims with references!


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## solar_plasma (Oct 27, 2016)

Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Goldreserven

Germany has got half of its gold from 2013-2015, the other half will be brought "home" continiously until 2020.

This makes me believe, there is no shortage of gold anywhere. Sure, contracts on contracts on... which easily could happen to be nothing worth anymore like any other snow ball system. But there is as much metal as is demanded, pretty much in balance between 900-2000 in $ of 2016. Sure, we never know, where the value of money will go....other than that it will surely not raise its value.


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## anachronism (Oct 28, 2016)

Bjorn

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist I prefer logic and to add to this I am in business. If I had gold anywhere and told them I wanted it returning would I feel comfortable if it took years to deliver? Hell no. All my alarm bells would be shrieking.

Go to your bank to get your salary this month and see how comfortable you feel when they offer to pay you in instalments. You good with that? Didn't think so.

Tell me how that one works if it is all there and available, because I am struggling to see how their proposal demonstrates no shortage of "real" gold.

Edited for context.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 28, 2016)

Hi!


> I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist I prefer logic and to add to this I am in business. If I had gold anywhere and told them I wanted it returning would I feel comfortable if it took years to deliver? Hell no. All my alarm bells would be shrieking.



As a thing between me and my bank/customer/anyone I would agree, but transactions between nations are governed by a different set of rules. And I think they are considered safe by most rules. Or else...  :evil:


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## anachronism (Oct 29, 2016)

Of course they run on a different set of rules- it's "other peoples' money" and they all cover up for one another to protect the status quo. :x 

Being logical about it someone else's gold in your national bank's possession should be available immediately on request. It's been used elsewhere, for other purposes and they are all as bad as each other. Most of the physical gold in this world is in China.


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## anachronism (Nov 9, 2016)

Well what do you know? Looks like you guys had your own "Brexit" moment. Interesting times ahead!


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## UncleBenBen (Nov 9, 2016)

anachronism said:


> Interesting times ahead!



You can say that again! Is it bad that I've had this song stuck in my head for weeks now? :? 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DZ0GFRcFm-aY&ved=0ahUKEwiD6rK04ZvQAhVEKCYKHUsZBVsQyCkIHDAA&usg=AFQjCNEqFqS6f4sLPDGCqZHOOiQy6ehKAg&sig2=IpWs5US-moS2OWxor07S5A


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## anachronism (Nov 9, 2016)

Yeah but for the right reasons. It may surprise a few people that I'm a bit of a rebel at heart....


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## kurtak (Nov 9, 2016)

anachronism said:


> Yeah but for the right reasons. It may surprise a few people that I'm a bit of a rebel at heart....



:mrgreen:


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## kurtak (Nov 9, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> anachronism said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting times ahead!
> ...



Song title = Its The End Of The World

Kind of depends on your world view :lol: :twisted: 

Kurt


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## UncleBenBen (Nov 9, 2016)

kurtak said:


> Kind of depends on your world view



Round. It's definitely round! :lol: 
Kurt, you suppose the price of new AR15s will be going back down now? :mrgreen:


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## kurtak (Nov 9, 2016)

anachronism said:


> Well what do you know? Looks like you guys had your own "Brexit" moment. Interesting times ahead!



In deed :!: Sometimes the world needs a good shake up to let the powers that be know they really don't have the control they think they have :mrgreen: 

Kurt


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## kurtak (Nov 9, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> kurtak said:
> 
> 
> > Kind of depends on your world view
> ...



Not sure if the price of AR15s will go down - but I sure like watching the price of PMs going up 8) :mrgreen: 

Kurt


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## kurtak (Nov 9, 2016)

:shock: that $28 spike in gold I saw early this morning was sure short lived  

Kurt


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## 4metals (Nov 9, 2016)

I interpret that as the banks saying how do we insulate ourselves from damage and then quickly realizing that they can likely manipulate the price like they have been doing all along until someone who cares (and someone with some say) does something about it. 

The more things change the more they stay the same! (Alphonse Karr - 1849)


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## UncleBenBen (Nov 9, 2016)

4metals said:


> I interpret that as the banks saying how do we insulate ourselves from damage and then quickly realizing that they can likely manipulate the price like they have been doing all along until someone who cares (and someone with some say) does something about it.
> 
> The more things change the more they stay the same! (Alphonse Karr - 1849)



I like your interpretation, 4metals! Only it could be someone with some say, followed by millions who are actually willing to do something about it. Finally. 
:wink: :wink: :twisted:


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## galenrog (Nov 9, 2016)

Yes, it will be interesting times. Where gold and other metals will go I will not even speculate, since I am typically wrong. 

BenBen, I can appreciate having you having a song stuck in your head. My well addled brain has been alternating between Time Warp and Hot Patootie for over a month. I was being so obnoxious about it that my wife started playing ABBA again. Sad.


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## UncleBenBen (Nov 9, 2016)

galenrog said:


> I was being so obnoxious about it that my wife started playing ABBA again. Sad.



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## anachronism (Nov 9, 2016)

Oh I'm sorry but Abba rocks. A guilty pleasure for when no-one is watching.


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## 4metals (Nov 10, 2016)

Amazing Gold went into the $1330's on election night in the US. Classically everyone turns to metal in unsure times as a safe haven. Well for all of their crying about Trump being an economic disaster the bank's sure sucked the wind out of that sail quickly, today, two short days since the election, it is in the $1250's.

Speculators playing with other people's money, let the investors think doom is just around the corner so they run up the price of gold and then pull the plug and suck the money out of their pockets too!


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## FrugalRefiner (Nov 10, 2016)

At one point Tuesday night / Wednesday morning Dow futures were down 800 points. Dow closed up something like 250 points by the end of business Wednesday. I'm sure somebody made a boatload of money, meaning that somebody else lost just as much. :| 

Dave


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