# Help with White ceramic IC/ CPU



## Roj (Dec 11, 2016)

Hello everyon
I have had these white ceramic ICE/CPU for years now . They sealed with some type of dye and black sillicone .trying to figure out what would be best way to process them ( Nirtric bath first or AR ? ) my main problem os the protective layer on top sillicone/ some type or dye I have attached pics. Any tip or help will be really appreciated
Thank you


----------



## g_axelsson (Dec 11, 2016)

Hi Roj and welcome to the forum

Nice scrap, looks like microwave circuit modules. I would love to refine that batch.  

The first step is incineration, that will turn the protective epoxy and anything else organic that would create problems later on into ash. My next step would be to use HCl to eliminate tin and some other base metals. Then depending on what's left do another incineration and nitric bath or straight to AR and standard refining.

But if you don't have any experience with refining you should put it on the shelf for a while longer and study the forum, especially the library section. Hoke's book (links found in many members signatures) is also highly recommended to get up to speed with the language we use here.

And as always, run some smaller tests so you don't create a huge mess. A small mess is always easier to deal with.

Göran


----------



## samuel-a (Dec 11, 2016)

Nice scrap... lots of hybrid circuits, would potentially yield some Pd as well.


----------



## goldsilverpro (Dec 11, 2016)

I agree. Good stuff. On the circuit side, the traces appear (because the gold is dull) to be thick film, silk-screened, gold, which might be 15-30 times thicker than the gold on fingers or pins. I don't know what thickness the gold on the back is. I would guess it's pure gold plating about twice the thickness of finger gold. I would probably just use aqua regia.


----------



## anachronism (Dec 11, 2016)

Yep I'd agree on the microwave part Goran. Possibly Nortel/Ericsson base station components. The gold on the back is thick plating usually on a copper substrate which can be quick thick and bonded to a Beryllium Oxide layer (the white stuff.) Pd yes - highly likely as the MLC are usually of the noble metal variety, and some traces and other components can be Pd bearing as well.


----------



## Roj (Dec 11, 2016)

Thank you guys .its actually ceramic tho.


----------



## anachronism (Dec 11, 2016)

Roj, those components have 1988-1991 date codes on them. BeO ceramic substrate was widely used for these components at this time and much later. It's white. 

Not the best things to be incinerating.


----------



## etack (Dec 11, 2016)

looks like the long pieces came out of thermal printers.

Eric


----------



## Roj (Dec 11, 2016)

Keep getting error when i try to reply to the forum


----------



## Roj (Dec 11, 2016)

FH diluted with isopropanol would that do the trick and remove sillicone ?


----------



## Roj (Dec 11, 2016)

Under the black sillicone there is very fine gold bonding wires


----------



## Roj (Dec 11, 2016)

Here is pic of it


----------



## Roj (Dec 11, 2016)

Here we go


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Dec 11, 2016)

Roj said:


> Keep getting error when i try to reply to the forum


Make sure you don't try to use a percentage sign in your post. It's causing an error again. Noxx is working on it.

Dave


----------



## patnor1011 (Dec 12, 2016)

Take one piece and put it in acetone. It may soften that black epoxy down enough so you will be able to scrape it out. If that will work then you can incinerate just those black epoxy stripes.


----------



## Roj (Dec 24, 2016)

Update .
First let me thank all of you , For tips and advises .
I did incinerate them first. and got one issue solved with the black sillicone . and tested couple pieces with AR it did dissolved the gold traces around the chip but it did not effect what so ever the middle part . As its still covered with almost looks like a layer of glass or some type of protected glue. Have no ide what is it .any tip will be appreciated as usual you guys a great help . 
Thank you


----------



## patnor1011 (Dec 25, 2016)

Acetone.
And as it was mentioned by many people here it is not good idea to incinerate beryllium if you value your health/life.


----------



## Roj (Dec 30, 2016)

I am amazed of the results. This was from the above ceramcis . Total was about 12lbs. Thank you again . Without this forum and amazing people here that share their knowledge helping others , I would not be able to do it .


----------



## goldsilverpro (Dec 30, 2016)

$267 per pound. I'm not surprised. Thick film has always been one of the most lucrative items.


----------



## Topher_osAUrus (Dec 30, 2016)

Very nice.


----------



## goldsilverpro (Dec 30, 2016)

So, how did you process them? Incineration, then AR on the strips?


----------



## Roj (Dec 30, 2016)

I did incinerate them little bit just to get the black sillicone off . But then i had still the problem with the protective layer of very stronge glassy type which was covering the bonding gold wires . I went by patnor advise put it in actetone for over night that actually exposed enough gold . Then i rinsed with water and soap and put the ceramic in AR . This pic is for incinerated sillicone with gold wire I didnt process them yet . Will do it separately . I will post the yeild for it as soon I am done .


----------



## Roj (Dec 30, 2016)

Oh the other type I did put them in HCL just to get rid of the silver and other capacitors and then they were straight to AR . They were the easiest to process


----------



## Roj (Dec 30, 2016)

Here is after AR


----------



## aga (Dec 30, 2016)

Awesome !

It is fascinating to see people actually doing real chemistry and getting a result !

Thank you. That has made my day.


----------



## patnor1011 (Dec 30, 2016)

Acetone is so strong solvent it actually dissolved my thick rubber gloves I was using when I was stripping glue layer from laptop mouse pad circuits. I put like 100 pads in a bucket with about 1l of acetone overnight. In the morning I put on gloves and started scraping swollen glue off pads using one of them. I did like 3/4 of them then I noticed glove fingers were longer and whole glove felt strange so I took them off and after another while they looked like anything but gloves. Scary stuff.


----------



## Roj (Dec 30, 2016)

Just make sure you wash it very well before processing it in AR otherwise you could have combination of making Chloropicrin. Thats what i read .


----------



## g_axelsson (Dec 31, 2016)

Roj said:


> Just make sure you wash it very well before processing it in AR otherwise you could have combination of making Chloropicrin. Thats what i read .


That is nothing I have heard about in refining. How is it even possible as chloropicrin contains carbon and the synthesis includes nitro methane.

I would like to add a "citation needed" to your claim. Where did you read that?

Göran


----------



## Roj (Dec 31, 2016)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2439


----------



## aga (Dec 31, 2016)

Yes, it seems that it is possible to make chloropicrin with acetone/AR, but not so easy, as garage chemist says in that post :-

"Only drawback is that both HCl and HNO3 need to be of maximum concentration.
(I tried it before with 65% HNO3 and it didn't work)"

With any 'contaminants' in that reaction (like Au !) they'd all be in competition with each other, reducing the amount of chloropicrin (and other products) dramatically, possibly to undetectable levels.

It's always tricky to know what is meant when someone says 'A + B makes Z'. I once copied an experiment which 'failed' dismally. Turned out that it didn't fail, just that the amount of Z produced was so small that it could only be detected with a $20,000 machine.


----------



## g_axelsson (Dec 31, 2016)

I forgot about the acetone treatment. Now I see how it might form, but as aga wrote, the probability is really low since we don't use fuming nitric acid. There is no use of it in refining.
The ceramic parts were also rinsed in water and soap after the acetone treatment so in this case I think it's safe to say that the risk of forming chloropicrin is negligible.

Good catch though, it's good to get a new view to eliminate dangers. I think a good recommendation could be to let pieces dry out between acetone treatment and aqua regia.

Another thing we try to teach our members is to never smell the reactions... not like they do it on ScienceMadness. :mrgreen: 

Göran


----------



## Roj (Dec 31, 2016)

Lol Goran . I never intended to smell it unless I am having fight with my wife :mrgreen: .
I just wanted to highlight the rinsing with water and soap to be safe .thats all  . Thank you all again cheers


----------

