# People are going mad



## goldenchild

Check these auctions out. I have won auctions from this person and (i believe she) sells really good stuff, but I guess the gold fever has really hit hard. I felt bad that I had missed bidding on them until I saw how much it took to win them

#120493060928

#120493061863

For the first one I calulated that if was entirely 14k gold filled (which they werent) and had absolutely no wear (which im sure there was) and you could yeild 100% of the gold off of them it would be worth $89.73. It sold for 202.50 :shock: Im thinking there was some shill bidding going on or this person has no clue how to buy scrap. Maybe they thought it was solid gold and were getting the deal of the century. If not I hope they won it to fix up and resell. The seller won big on this one.


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## Anonymous

I feel like there is shill bidding quite often. I know there are lots of people checking out ebay, but every time I bid on something, even if there was no bids and it is going to end in a day or two or even less, seems someone comes out of the wood work and starts bidding against me. Some things I bid on are so obscure and may have a 7 or 10 day auction with no activity then, I bid, bam theres someone else just waiting to drive up the price.

Jim


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## goldenchild

What your saying sounds typical. I dont think that its shill bidding but people just waiting till the last minute to put there bids in so that they can get it for the least amount of money. This is because it usually takes a person or two to bid in order for other people to start bidding. I guess people feel that if no one bid on it then there must be something wrong with it or the item is not worth the money. I go to live auctions in my area and its the same thing. One person bids and then others join in and it becomes a frenzy. Ive seen auctions go for way more than they are worth because of competitiveness. Maybe thats what happened with these two lots. Its kind of a paradox really. Everyone is trying to get the best price for the auction so they wait till the last minute but since so many people do it the price goes way up. Wanting to beat everyone out they overbid.


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## Anonymous

I dont know how many people out there want a distilling flask, but it seems they want everyone that I do.  
Also, seems everyone wants the same test tubes as me as well  
And it seems the items are listed every day, day in, day out, but the marker never has room for me to buy one of anything that I want.
Ahhhh, that just me, feeling like the whole world is out to get me.

Jim


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## g_axelsson

I've seen extreme examples of last minute bidding... one of my auctions of old computer gear went from no bids with a starting price of 99 cent to $105 in the last minute of the bidding. That was for a set of old cables to connect some equipment to a computer from 1975.

Personally I always tries to put in my bids in the last five seconds so no one can react on my bid. The downside is that I sometimes forget to bid.  

/Göran


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## hphoa

Your right people are going mad over gold,I seen it before when Gold was 200.00 an ounce.as for glass where, I HAVE A PLACE THAT ETHER HAS IT OR WILL MAKE IT.LET ME KNOW & WE CAN WORK OUT DETAILS


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## AlanInMo

james122964 said:


> I feel like there is shill bidding quite often. Some things I bid on are so obscure and may have a 7 or 10 day auction with no activity then, I bid, bam theres someone else just waiting to drive up the price.
> 
> Jim



Sorry Jim I'm guilty as charged :lol: sometimes I bid (small if it's worth it) on 7-10 day auctions simply as a way of tracking the item on my summary page wihout having to look through my "Watching this item" list..


james122964 said:


> I dont know how many people out there want a distilling flask, but it seems they want everyone that I do.
> Ahhhh, that just me, feeling like the whole world is out to get me.
> 
> Jim



Well I bought all the lab glass I needed this week so maybe you can win one now..  Is there any particular item you had your heart set on having? I may have duplicates.. :lol:


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## Anonymous

I dropped my 250ml round boiling flask, 24/40 neck(I think), just so everyone know, they do not handle hitting the floor very well  
I will most likely just order some new glass from a seller. After I move some gold this week. I have a local jeweller that is going to buy some from me, he is testing the drill filings and is supposed to call me with quote on tuesday.

Jim

Edit* I should add that I baught the original gold at a local pawn shop when gold was in the 700 range (baught from them at 90 percent of spot) and I took my little scale to Kmart and wall mart and baught all the little clearance stuff that was marked at 10 -20.00 (during the same time frame) I baught all the material that yielded a price within 15 percent of the spot price. With gold over a 1000.00 again I stand to make some decent money on this investment.


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## goldenchild

james122964 said:


> I dropped my 250ml round boiling flask, 24/40 neck(I think), just so everyone know, they do not handle hitting the floor very well



Jim,

just out of curiousity what are you using this boiling flask for? Are you distilling nitric? Also have you tried outside of ebay? I mean is there a particular reason you need it from ebay? I did a google search for 250 boiling flask and there are thousands of places to order from. The site I looked at was for 18 bucks.


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## Anonymous

I do use it for distilling nitric. I always try ebay - looking for that deal - hardly ever have a gotten a deal though.
I most likely will just buy some stuff next week. I am ramping up for higher production



Jim


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## goldenchild

james122964 said:


> I do use it for distilling nitric.
> 
> Jim



Excellent. I get by using the 50% nitric with lazersteves formula but would like to be able to make 70% for certain operations. I know it exists somewhere on this forum but since I have your attention would you mind telling us all the equipment you would need to do this and detailed instructions on how. On a side note... I went out today to see how much I could get for an ingot loaf that weighs exactly 31.1 grams. The jeweler I talked to said he would buy my ingot at 22k melt value because he has no way of testing 24k. He said he would have to take it to NYC to use some machine that costs like 40 grand. It uses xrays I believe. So then I asked if he would buy it at 100% 22k melt and he said yes. So Im going to use some silver and make the ingot 22k. I basically found a source that will buy my gold at 100% melt value! Im pumped.


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## eeTHr

goldenchild;

Good thinking. I had similar thoughts about that sort of thing.

Why spend the time and cost of refining to 9995 if the buyer can't recognize it anyway?

But I think that a jeweler who is going to actually use it himself _should_ want 9995, and therefore should know, or find out, how to recognize it.

Just thinking out loud.

8)


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## Anonymous

My guy uses a stone and acids, hes just not to quick about it. I was there when he drilled the hole, weighted the drillings, he took half and I got half. He will call with quote for the rest. I have sold to him before and he is fare, just takes his good old time, I have never been upset with his pricing and I know he is just protecting himself also.

There are many sources on the internet about distilling nitric acid, I unfortunately have never been good at explaining how to do stuff. 
I can tell you on u-tube, nerd rage has lots of information and they seem to be on their game.

I actually got 2 replacement flasks today for 17.98 which includes shipping, I guess I just had to do some whining and complaining, just like when I tell my wife that wont work or something turns out to work right after I tell her   

I know that my guy would not be happy if he found 2 karats worth of silver mixed in, but, then again hes not paying me at 22k.
If you give him 24k but he pays you 100 percent at 22k that is .916 percent of spot, not bad, I personally think you should reconsider cutting the purity, exspecially if this is the first time selling to him. I would be suprised if he could not actually tell 24k that would not seem like a very good jeweller to me. 

Jim


Jim


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## goldsilverpro

james said:


> I personally think you should reconsider cutting the purity, exspecially if this is the first time selling to him



I agree with james. Diluting to 22K seems to be a little deceitful and shady to me. You'll get away with it only once. Good way to burn bridges. The guy must make a profit and 91.6% isn't a terrible price.


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## eeTHr

The point is that if the guy wants to _buy_ 22K, then you _tell him_ its 22K, and make sure it actually is that or a little over.

He tests it for 22K, it shows good, he pays for 22K, everyone is happy.

Why he wants to buy 22K, though, I don't know. Well, he _did_ say that it's the highest he could test for, but I wonder what he does with it? Isn't it usually better to alloy just before pouring? And how would he know what the other metal(s) in it are? Doesn't it make a difference?

I do know that 24K can legally be only 995, so unless a buyer appreciates and acknowledges a greater purity, then that's all he expects when buying it as "24K," rather than 999. If you tell him you have 9995, and he doesn't give a hoot, then it's just a waste of time and chemicals, no?

Who would sell their Cadillac for the price of a Chevy, just to get a warm fuzzy feeling? I like the feeling of a fair and honest trade, where both parties know exactly what's going on with it. OK, one time I was moving cross-country, and I didn't want to drive, so I gave my old but good-running car to a neighbor kid who couldn't afford one otherwise. But that's different.

Actually, I would prefer a customer who wants 9995 because it shows that he knows what he is doing, and would probably be more reliable, and less likely to give me problems in the future.

:?:


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## goldsilverpro

So, you're saying that he wants to buy 22K? So, you're making 22K and selling it for some discount below 22K. Surely, the guy's smart enough to not give a full 22K price for 22K gold.

Maybe, the guy wants 22K, max, because, when he sells, he won't be exceeding his max evaluation limit of 22K. Therefore, his "gray area" would be smaller.

I think we interpreted this as your saying that he was giving a full 22K price for what you told him was 24K gold.

Just what are you saying?


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## nickvc

GSP i think reading the post that the buyer is offering melt value which to me is certainly not 100% of spot but scrap value,i think someone has not understood the offer that was made,if the offer is based on the scrap value then alloying down i feel is acceptable but if hes offering 100% at 22carat then i feel its only fair to allow him some profit, and to alloy it down would to me be unfair.


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## eeTHr

GSP;

Wow, what a mixup! :lol: 

First of all, my original post about this was a reply to goldenchild, so it's not in reference to what _I_ was saying about _my_ customer, it's what _he_ was saying about his dealings with _his_ customer.


goldenchild said:


> The jeweler I talked to said he would buy my ingot at 22k melt value because he has no way of testing 24k. He said he would have to take it to NYC to use some machine that costs like 40 grand. It uses xrays I believe. So then I asked if he would buy it at 100% 22k melt and he said yes. So Im going to use some silver and make the ingot 22k. I basically found a source that will buy my gold at 100% melt value! Im pumped.



Does it make sense now? :lol: 

Don


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## goldsilverpro

> Does it make sense now?



No


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## eeTHr

GSP;

Well, I interpret what the jeweler told him to be, essentially, "I will pay you 100% for whatever amount of gold that I know, by testing, is in there. But since I can't test higher than 22K, I'll have to rip you off for any extra that it contains, if you want to accept that."


nickvc;

I don't know about the melt value/scrap value thing. I guess the scrap value could be considered what the jeweler could get from a refiner if he sent it in with some scrap jewelry? That amount would be minus any refiners fees, which vary so much there is no way of figuring _what_ price he meant.

Since the jeweler was using this term in making an offer, and an offer must be a _known_ amount, I would assume that he was refering to spot. But since I wasn't there at the time, I don't really know exactly how the offer was put.

I guess that I felt that, by "melt value," the way the jeweler used it, that he meant whatever portion of the alloy was gold, and that he could only pay for a 22K portion because of his testing limitations.

Don


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## Anonymous

eeTHr said:


> GSP;
> 
> I guess that I felt that, by "melt value," the way the jeweler used it, that he meant whatever portion of the alloy was gold, and that he could only pay for a 22K portion because of his testing limitations.
> 
> Don



I read that an think the jeweller is expecting gold that is not intentionally alloyed which would be 24k, but since he can not test to prove 24k (got a bad feeling about this, what jeweller can't tell 24k) he will pay you 100 percent at 22k. He is not expecting alloyed gold.

Jim


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## goldsilverpro

Jim said:


> I read that an think the jeweller is expecting gold that is not intentionally alloyed which would be 24k, but since he can not test to prove 24k (got a bad feeling about this, what jeweller can't tell 24k) he will pay you 100 percent at 22k. He is not expecting alloyed gold.


That's the way I see it.


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## eeTHr

We won't know for sure until goldenchild returns.


james122964 said:


> If you give him 24k but he pays you 100 percent at 22k that is .916 percent of spot, not bad


What I'm wondering is, if he actually excpected 24K, then why didn't he just say "I'll pay you 90% of spot"? Why did he relate the price to his testing limitations instead?

And if he wasn't sure what the fineness was, how could he reliably alloy it for use?

On the other hand, if he was planning on using it as-is in jewelry, and _selling_ that jewelry as 22K, then that means that his profit margin was based on paying 100% for 22K---and if _that's_ the case, then what good would it be to give him 24K? It would be too soft, anyway.



james122964 said:


> got a bad feeling about this, what jeweller can't tell 24k


I agree. There may have been a little more to the conversation than goldenchild felt was necessary to include in his post.

:idea: 

Don


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## goldenchild

Wow what did I start here lol? Let me clear this all up. I brought in a 24k ingot that weighed exactly 31.1 grams. I asked how much he would give me for it and he said he would give me full value for what it would be worth if it was a 22k ingot. This is because (from what he told me) he has gotten screwed over by buying 24k and it turned out to be 22k. 22k acid is the highest he can test for I guess. He isnt a large scale operation I suppose. Decent size but not the biggest. So anyway... Instead of screwing myself over the 8.4 percent (2.6 grams) of the 31.1 grams of 24k, I will put 2.4 grams of silver (to be certain it is 22k) in it so that it WILL be 22k and I get full value. He said he will give me !!!100%!!! melt value. I have had him make me custom jewelry (I will post a pic soon) and have a good reputation with him. I guess thats why hes willing to do so. Ive seen him work and he doesnt do that for everyone. He has kind of taken a liking to me because I really know my stuff when it comes to gold. He gives me pointers on things everytime I see him. So... Why he cant test beyond 22k is really no concern of mine as long as hes giving me full value  What hes using it for also no concern. Worst case scenario: he bait and switches and offers 91.6% melt value for 22k (which I would never accept) and I go back and refine it again and go elsewhere. Even still 91.6 percent melt is excellent. Im wondering how many people can say that. Oh and lastly: someone mentioned if it mattered what metal you used to alloy (and someone correct me if im wrong) but I would say no. It depends what you want. Especially at such a high karat like 22k. Do you guys know you can make gold any color under the sun? Check these links out. I plan on making a deep green dragon ring next.

http://jewelrymaking.allinfoabout.com/features/goldalloys.html

http://chemistry.about.com/od/jewelrychemistry/a/goldalloys.htm



PHEW hope this clears everthing up :mrgreen:


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## Irons

goldenchild said:


> Wow what did I start here lol? Let me clear this all up. I brought in a 24k ingot that weighed exactly 31.1 grams. I asked how much he would give me for it and he said he would give me full value for what it would be worth if it was a 22k ingot. This is because (from what he told me) he has gotten screwed over by buying 24k and it turned out to be 22k. 22k acid is the highest he can test for I guess. He isnt a large scale operation I suppose. Decent size but not the biggest. So anyway... Instead of screwing myself over the 8.4 percent (2.6 grams) of the 31.1 grams of 24k, I will put 2.4 grams of silver (to be certain it is 22k) in it so that it WILL be 22k and I get full value. He said he will give me !!!100%!!! melt value. I have had him make me custom jewelry (I will post a pic soon) and have a good reputation with him. I guess thats why hes willing to do so. Ive seen him work and he doesnt do that for everyone. He has kind of taken a liking to me because I really know my stuff when it comes to gold. He gives me pointers on things everytime I see him. So... Why he cant test beyond 22k is really no concern of mine as long as hes giving me full value  What hes using it for also no concern. Worst case scenario: he bait and switches and offers 91.6% melt value for 22k (which I would never accept) and I go back and refine it again and go elsewhere. Even still 91.6 percent melt is excellent. Im wondering how many people can say that. Oh and lastly: someone mentioned if it mattered what metal you used to alloy (and someone correct me if im wrong) but I would say no. It depends what you want. Especially at such a high karat like 22k. Do you guys know you can make gold any color under the sun? Check these links out. I plan on making a deep green dragon ring next.
> 
> http://jewelrymaking.allinfoabout.com/features/goldalloys.html
> 
> http://chemistry.about.com/od/jewelrychemistry/a/goldalloys.htm
> 
> 
> 
> PHEW hope this clears everthing up :mrgreen:




Be careful with alloys containing Cadmium. The fumes can make you very ill or worse.


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## goldenchild

Irons said:


> Be careful with alloys containing Cadmium. The fumes can make you very ill or worse.



Truth. Heavy metal poisoning can't be fun. Tomorrow's the big day. I will see if my jeweler will keep his word. I alloyed my 24k brick with silver and it now weighs 33.8 grams. 

Here is another interesting auction.

120495255390


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## goldenchild

I sold my brick today for an interesting price. As I said I had alloyed my 24k brick with 2.4 grams of silver making it weight 33.8 grams. Since this was .2 grams short of the 2.8, when calculated, the gold would be calculated as just short of a troy ounce. 30.9608 to be exact. I told him that I calculated using grams and he said he used pennyweight. So he calculated it his way and came up with $1214.00. I wasnt complaining. He then scratch tested it and put a deep gash using a file into it and it was "perfect". I somehow got more than melt value for a troy ounce. 8) BTW the auction on my last post has been relisted. I wonder what happened there. 120499606963


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## Anonymous

Sorry to ask, but whats his name, location? Na, just kidding.
He gave you a good bit over spot on 24k for you 22k, not making much sense to me. Unless hes used to paying way over spot.
Well anyways seems good for you.

Jim


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## eeTHr

goldenchild;

Just to clarify: When you brought back your gold in the 33.8 gram piece, did you inform him that it was 22K this time? (I would assume that he knew it was a different piece, because of the weight difference.)

Don


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## goldenchild

eeTHr said:


> goldenchild;
> 
> Just to clarify: When you brought back your gold in the 33.8 gram piece, did you inform him that it was 22K this time? (I would assume that he knew it was a different piece, because of the weight difference.)
> 
> Don



I told him in our first conversation that I was going to go back and make it 22k. So... Yes. He knew it was 22k.


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## eeTHr

Thanks much, goldenchild. My mind was getting all tangled up on that. I feel a lot better now.

8)


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