# is this stuff needed or can i just use borax?



## Roy (May 19, 2010)

I found this it shows how to make flux.
http://www.nuggethunters.org/Poormans-Smelting.html

but do I really need all those ingredients or can I just use borax? how much borax do I use?

and long time no see been waiting patiently for summer to get here so I can start my gold prospecting hunt. :mrgreen:


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## Harold_V (May 19, 2010)

Roy said:


> I found this it shows how to make flux.
> http://www.nuggethunters.org/Poormans-Smelting.html
> 
> but do I really need all those ingredients or can I just use borax? how much borax do I use?
> ...


Flux is a broad term, and can vary considerably. Unless you disclose what you're trying to do, I don't think anyone can advise you what you should use. 

Harold


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## Roy (May 19, 2010)

Harold_V said:


> Roy said:
> 
> 
> > I found this it shows how to make flux.
> ...



I just plan to melt the gold i get from panning once I'm all done I'll just use a torch and the melting dish that a rock shop has for sale. and i'll ask about a cone mold while i'm there. That will be it till i get enough to sell and buy a http://www.noblepack.com/Tools-Casting-Melting-Furnaces-SKU5814-283.asp for the rest of the melting. Yes I plan to do a lot of hard work this summer  since this will be my income till I can get a job.


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## 4metals (May 19, 2010)

Using just borax is fine for melting refined gold or karat gold but for placer gold the mix specified is best because there are usually other elements mixed in with placer gold as in rock pieces etc. The flux using borax sand and soda ash, plus an oxidizer will address these issues better than plain borax.

As far as the handy melt you plan on buying, save your money, they do not last and do not handle melts requiring flux well. Build or buy a small gas furnace, you'll be better off.


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## qst42know (May 19, 2010)

Save your flux slags if you are only planing on using a torch. You have to keep the whole batch hot enough, long enough to allow gravity to collect your values.


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## Roy (May 19, 2010)

4metals said:


> Using just borax is fine for melting refined gold or karat gold but for placer gold the mix specified is best because there are usually other elements mixed in with placer gold as in rock pieces etc. The flux using borax sand and soda ash, plus an oxidizer will address these issues better than plain borax.
> 
> As far as the handy melt you plan on buying, save your money, they do not last and do not handle melts requiring flux well. Build or buy a small gas furnace, you'll be better off.



so what would be a good furnace you would recommend?


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## goldsilverpro (May 19, 2010)

There's a bunch of them on here that you can build.
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/


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## 4metals (May 19, 2010)

If you're handy build one, if you,re not try Action Mining Services website http://www.actionmining.com look at their catalog under propane furnaces. Their smallest holds a #5 crucible and costs $439. Its catalog# is Furnace5.

You can do a lot of melting in a #5 crucible.

They also sell all of the other ingredients for your flux make-up.


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## Barren Realms 007 (May 19, 2010)

goldsilverpro said:


> There's a bunch of them on here that you can build.
> http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/



There is also a kit you can buy if I remember right.


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## Platdigger (May 20, 2010)

May want to try these guys http://www.foundry101.com/search.htm


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## Roy (May 20, 2010)

I'm not at all that handy I'd more and likely miss something and end up putting a crater in my neighbor hood. and since action mining is only a 2 1/2hr drive I'll drive up and check'em out.


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## 4metals (May 20, 2010)

If you're that close you have a source for nitric acid as well. Most on this forum have a hard time getting it. They also sell crucibles, molds, tongs and many useful books. Bring your wallet!


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## Roy (May 20, 2010)

4metals said:


> If you're that close you have a source for nitric acid as well. Most on this forum have a hard time getting it. They also sell crucibles, molds, tongs and many useful books. Bring your wallet!




:lol: my wallet is what I'm trying to save lol. I just watched their video on the wave table man i wouldn't mind wanting one of those lol their cheapest one is 3500.00 lol that defiantly beats panning and blue bowl hahaha, even though panning is fun. for the time being I'll just have to use the long handled melting dish that the local rock shop has for 24.00 before i can buy anything that costs to much.


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## Noxx (May 20, 2010)

4metals said:


> If you're handy build one, if you,re not try Action Mining Services website Their smallest holds a #5 crucible and costs $439.



That's what it cost me to build my #6 crucible propane furnace too. But I had to purchase all new materials, I'm sure one could do it for $250.

Anyway, building one is way more fun than buying one ! And you can do it to your likings.


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## fireengineer2004 (May 29, 2011)

Roy said:


> I found this it shows how to make flux.
> http://www.nuggethunters.org/Poormans-Smelting.html
> 
> but do I really need all those ingredients or can I just use borax? how much borax do I use?
> ...



I have been told, by those on other (prospecting) forums that the formula posted on this site is no damn good - for anything (other than "ruining" gold - their words not mine) so what is the concensus of the gold smelters here? Real or fake - and please qualify your responses with your experience - especially with this particular flux. I - a greener than grass noob - mean no offence to anyone here. :mrgreen:


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## Harold_V (May 30, 2011)

fireengineer2004 said:


> I have been told, by those on other (prospecting) forums that the formula posted on this site is no damn good - for anything (other than "ruining" gold - their words not mine) so what is the concensus of the gold smelters here? Real or fake - and please qualify your responses with your experience - especially with this particular flux. I - a greener than grass noob - mean no offence to anyone here. :mrgreen:


The harsh reality is you won't find many gold smelters on this forum. Smelting is beyond the scope of almost all readers---and generally accomplished only with a large assortment of equipment (crusher, ball mill, floatation cell, furnace). Properly used, the term implies the recovery of values from ores. You may understand that many here don't do that, and for various reasons, not the least important one being that rarely will one encounter an ore that lends itself to smelting where gold is concerned. Most gold that is recovered from smelting is recovered as a secondary product from the recovery of other values. Gold is typically extracted from its source by other means.

There is no "one size fits all" where flux is concerned. The composition of the gangue plays a huge role in what reagents are chosen. Those high in silica benefit from the use of soda ash, for example, which dissolves silica. Fluorspar thins flux, making it less viscous, but it also is very aggressive towards refractory materials. A combination of soda ash, borax and fluorspar can serve nicely, depending on the material at hand. If you have something specific in mind, it would pay you to explore old books, where the subject is commonly discussed. That was the source of the knowledge I gained when I processed my waste materials by furnace. 

Harold


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