# Messing around a little with solder and salt



## Evan2468WDWA (Jun 6, 2014)

I was curious if there is some way to de-solder things with electrochemistry so I tried a little experiment. In a plastic container I put a cup of water and a teaspoon of table salt. Then I cut two short pieces of solder to use as electrodes and hooked them up to an old RC battery charger I had laying around. I put it outside and let it work overnight. When I woke up in the morning this is what I found.




It's difficult to see in this picture, but the solder on one of them was completely eaten way. There was some white powered on the bottom of the container which I don't know the composition of. My knowledge of chemistry is really limited so I'm not really sure what reaction took place. 

I'm thinking this could be used to strip boards. First you buy one of those cheep plastic pools from wall-mart. Next you cut out two circular electrodes slightly less then the diameter of the pool from sheet steal (maybe stainless). Cover the bottom of the pool with one of the electrodes. Fill the pool with water, and add some salt. Cover the electrode with graphite powder. Wait for the powder to settle again. Cover the bottom of the pool with with a layer of circuit boards. Place the other electrode above all this. Hook the electrodes up to an adequate power source and let it do it's work. 

Recovering any gold on the boards might be an issue. I'm guessing it wouldn't oxidize so you could probably pan it out latter, but that would be a lot of panning. They have machines for that so if you were doing enough boards maybe that would be a good investment. So what do you think?


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## butcher (Jun 7, 2014)

Many metals beside just the lead or tin from solder would oxidize,at the anode of an electrolytic cell containing a chloride electrolyte, including copper, gold, and just about any other metal involved.


The idea would not work well unless your just wanting to make a chloride solution with many metals involved, there are simpler way's to make a mess.

Now I hope you have studied enough to understand how to deal with the toxic solution you have created, if not, this is a good time to study dealing with waste found in the safety section.

If this was lead/tin solder most of the lead would be a white insoluble powder lead chloride, only a small portion of the lead will be in solution at room temperature, most of the tin will remain in solution as stannous or stannic chloride.


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## Evan2468WDWA (Jun 8, 2014)

Well I guess this idea is a bust. Maybe if I used some other chemicals like the NaOH talked about in this thread,or maybe a stannous chloride solution in hydrochloric acid like in this you tube video, but it probably wouldn't work unless solder was the only metal I was dealing with. The sodium hydroxide and hydrogen peroxide talked about on this thread seems more promising then using electrolysis. Maybe I should look into that, or maybe I should just forget chemically removing solder. 

In regards to dealing with the waste from my experiment, it seems I'm a bit under equipped. If I'm understanding this thread correctly I need to lower the ph, stick it in a container with some iron and wait for it to cement the tin and lead out. Then I would need to siphon it to another container and raise the ph until the iron comes out of solution and the liquid is safe to discharge. Sense I don't currently have any strong acids I can't really do this right now so I put the solution in a glass jar and will save it for latter.

Edit: Can things cement out when the solution isn't acidic? If so this would be a lot easier for me.


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## Evan2468WDWA (Jun 9, 2014)

I finally found my multimeter and I learned something interesting. The electrode that dissolved was the positive one not the negative one. I figured that it was the chlorine which was responsible for the metal dissolving, but actually maybe it was the sodium. Since sodium is higher in the reactivity series maybe it replaced the lead and tin destroying the Anode in the process. If that is the case then maybe the idea isn't worthless after all. I should figure out some way to test it.


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## solar_plasma (Jun 9, 2014)

Sodium reacts directly with H2O to H2 and NaOH, the chlorine is mostly gassing of, partly it dissolves metals to chlorides and it also reacts with NaOH forming a blend of hypochlorite, a little chlorate and a little perchlorate. NaOH on the other side will precipitate hydroxides or form hydrates. So, using NaCl as the electrolyte with electrodes of different reactive metals, will make a whole chemical zoo, also called a _mess_.


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## Evan2468WDWA (Jun 9, 2014)

Ok definitely bad idea. Sorry about that. Thanks you both for patience with me.


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## solar_plasma (Jun 9, 2014)

Always a pleasure to me, especially when somebody tries to find relevant readings himself and is open for advices and other input.

If you want to have some fun without acids, have a look at modtheworld44's H2O cell.


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## New2refining (Feb 9, 2015)

Here's an interesting question say hypothetically you were to take a gold ingot low purity less than 10k use that as one electrode and your second electrode lets just say is copper or whatever theoretically you should be able to oxidize your ingot down to nothing be left with your mess of metals in your saltwater solution what if at this point you filter out your metal solids and dissolve in hcl, would that leave you with just your pure gold?


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## butcher (Feb 9, 2015)

Nope this does not sound like a good idea.

The gold dissolved at the anode would attempt to plate the copper cathode, silver in the low karat gold would soon form a silver chloride crust on the gold making its oxidation more difficult, you would soon foul the electrolyte with base metals... these and other problems with the idea, does not make this idea a good way to try and recover or to refine the gold.


New2refining,
Welcome to the forum, If your interested in learn how and why things work in recovery of metals, and how centuries of practice of these arts, and scientific work in the arts of recovery and refining of gold and other metals have been found to show what will work and why, and also what does not work well, or at all, and why.

Then study the forum, Hoke's book will introduce you to many of the basic principles, and help give you a good understanding of the basic principles, this book is the best place to get started.

The guide to the forum in the general chat section will help you get started with many thing we do and discuss here, helping you get started.

The forum is a vast library of information on these subjects, with very helpful members who have done tons of research, the vast knowledge of members on the forum, skilled professional's who assist with their vast knowledge, and hobbyist who have studied, and searched most everything they could find, who are willing to share what they have learned through trial and error, All have put together this resource (the best in the world in my opinion) to learn about gold and other metals, and how to recover and refine them. The members encourage study of these subjects, and are very helpful in helping others understand what they are studying, assisting each other in their education.

The forum has covered electrolysis of metals, including gold, a study of this subject on the forum will lead you to understand why what you propose above would not work, and why.
And also learn the principles of electrolysis of metals.

You can also learn why gold needs to be fairly pure before electrolysis in refining is a viable option.

Electrolysis of gold can be used in recovery, in some instances, but in many cases like with karat gold their are much better options, that will give easier and better results.

Before we educate ourselves well in these subjects, we get ideas of how things might work, but after study we see many problems with these uneducated guesses or ideas.

Many try to experiment with these ideas before they educate themselves, trying to get an education by spending time trying to get out of a mess and spending their time trying to find their lost gold, or by trying to reinvent the wheel when they have not even studied it.

When if they spent that same time studying they would know what works and why, and be spending their time recovering and refining metals with proven methods, and the ideas they do have to improve their process comes from an educated knowledge of the basic principles, and not just guessing something may work, and wasting their time finding out it does not work the way they think.

Welcome to the forum, looking forward to your contributions.


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## New2refining (Feb 16, 2015)

I do have one question that would help a lot what would be the best way to refine low karat ingot 10k and under nothing really lower then 10% gold 90% copper etc. I have close to 40 oz. in weight some test just below 10k acid test which would be 8k ?


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## Barren Realms 007 (Feb 16, 2015)

New2refining said:


> I do have one question that would help a lot what would be the best way to refine low karat ingot 10k and under nothing really lower then 10% gold 90% copper etc. I have close to 40 oz. in weight some test just below 10k acid test which would be 8k ?



Would these be gold bars sold on ebay?


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## New2refining (Feb 16, 2015)

These would be my own crappy bars from unrefined gold recovered from ap and also from gold filled pocket watch cases many failed attempts in refining learning process. That's why some vary greatly in karat iv seen refinit systems using dilute nitric to electropart low karat 6k I've tried my hand at electroparting to no success pretty sure ive lost a few oz of gold I've built a system built to a spec I found online and I was left with a brown powder sup to be gold and a solution polluted with base metals and the sup gold seems to be copper so idk if I screwed up and my gold is in the base metals Orr the solution and needs to be precipitated that's why I need a better way to refine I kept all my solutions and filtered base for hopefully later recovery if some one has an idea how to or if its a lost cause I'd hate to lose that much but live and learn educate then practice. I have some experience with chemicals but prefer not to use em if pos


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## butcher (Feb 16, 2015)

All of the answers to your question here, is easy to find, Hoke's book is the best place to begin your study.
Information found on the forum can supplement what you learn from Hoke's book.

By starting with Hoke's book and studying it, not only will you learn what to do in this case, you will be dealing with less failed attempts in your attempts at recovering and refining.

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I noticed in one of your posts above, I seen where you mentioned reading your cell with an voltmeter, (which is a small load on the cell (I am assuming the power supply was disconnected here).
And you seemed confused as to where oxidation occurs... or which is the oxidizing agent in the chemical reaction of the cell...

You basically have two different cells when one is powered by an external power supply (electrolytic cell) and when you put your voltmeter as a load across a cell of two dissimilar metals in an electrolyte (a galvanic cell) the positive and negative are different of these two types of cells. (a battery is a different cell if it is powering a load (galvanic cell) , or if it is being charged by a battery charger (electrolytic cell), the polarity of the electrodes are different, (as the oxidation and reduction of the electrodes is different in these two types of cells).


In an electrolytic cell when current is supplied (or powered) from an external source like a battery or a power supply used to drive a non spontaneous oxidation/reduction reaction, the positive is the anode where metal is oxidized to ions, and the cathode the negative where metal ions are reduced an plated out or settle in the cell as metal precipitant (metal cations move to cathode)n and (anions move to the anode.
(Note: this would be similar to a charging a battery)

Now without the external power source:
It is not called an electrolytic cell, but is called a galvanic cell.
When you hooked up the voltmeter to the electrodes (if the power supply was disconnected) and your meter was a load on the cell, you basically change the operation of your cell.
You now have a galvanic cell (where current can be generated by the electrochemical reaction of the cell, of two dissimilar metal electrodes in an electrolyte (acidic or basic solution) (here the cell acting as a battery discharging into an external load your voltmeter), 
Here the anode is the negative, where oxidation takes place, and the cathode is positive where reduction takes place.
(Note: this would be a battery supplying power to a load)

Oxidation occurs in both types of cells at the anode, and reduction at the cathode. but the positive and negative poles are not the same, in the two types of cells, (or whether the battery is discharging or being charged back up by an external power supply).

In battery's they name (wrongly) the positive pole the anode, but this is only true when charging the battery. When the battery is supplying power to lights or a load, the cathode is the positive pole, and the anode is negative.

Confusing I know.
Just remember oxidation is always the anode, and reduction at the cathode...
Oxidation is loss of electron, reduction is the gain of electron...


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## New2refining (Feb 16, 2015)

I've actually read hokes book and nowhere have I e found an answer to my question as to where my gold is and how to recover if you have a page number as to help I would appreciate the help


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## butcher (Feb 17, 2015)

Then you need to read it again, where you will find many things you missed, you will understand more every time you read the book.

I could sit here and quote many pages and chapters from her book to get you out of this problem but it would not help to educate you in the art and sciences of gold recovery and refining.
I could sit here and type a step by step process, and answer a hundred questions you will have along the way to get the little bit of gold from the mess you have now, but that would not help you very much.

Or I could point you in the direction to begin to learn the science and art of recovery and refining, pointing you in the proper direction, getting you to study, which will help you the most to learn and understand what you need to understand with this complicated art and science. 

Testing for gold in solutions, testing for gold content in metals, (she actually has a book on testing metals also that goes into more detail on that side of the picture), basically all of your questions here are answered in her book in great detail, and a thousand more questions you will have after this one.

Right now your focus is on getting a tiny bit of gold out of scrap, and in attempting to do so you are just losing it in the messes your making, (wasting your time hunting a tiny minnow fish and not learning how to catch those big schools of fish), your going about this all backwards, your trying to learn a complicated science my mixing chemicals and metals, (probably from reading a tiny bit and seeing some video), and then trying to get a little bit gold out of the messes your making from a lack of education and understanding.

When you should be focusing on getting an understanding, and the education needed, which then you know how to recover and refine these precious metals, and understand the chemistry and reactions involved, and know how to deal with most any problem...

If you can forget about getting a tiny bit of gold for the time being, and focus your attention on learning, and gaining an understanding, you will have much more success.

Patience, even with your own education and the time it takes, patience is something this science will teach you, and without patience you will struggle with all of this.

Label and save what you have now, in a safe place, and manner, learn how to deal with it before you begin to try to mess with it.

Start again with Hoke's book. Focus on study. when you get to the getting acquainted experiments in the book work on them. learn what she is teaching you with them, take notes, when you get to chapters that teach you about dealing with the gold you have now take notes, but do not worry about attempting to recover or refine this lot, just yet, study for now.

Start your forum study in the safety section, and dealing with waste in that section.

Then move on to the guide to the forum, in the general chat section.

Do not worry about recovery or refining just yet you will be getting gold in due time after you educate yourself.

Start with a simple material, and study it well, like memory fingers and how to recover gold from them, once you recover the gold foils, study how to refine the gold from the foils, using a more simple process like HCL/NaClO...

Working with more simple materials, and processes, and learning from them, and your study of these processes, then when you move on to dealing with more complicated scrap, and processes, and its study's, you will have some experience to go by, of seeing and knowing how things react, and you will gain more skill in what your studying from experiences of your past work and seeing the reactions.

Right now you see all of this as something simple, we can give you some simple answers to this one problem and you will get gold a tiny bit of gold in your dish, (one tiny little fish), well we can give you a few pages of answers, and get you out of this bind, to where you can recover gold from your previous mistake, but that will only lead you to a tiny bit of gold. and a million more questions without answers, and lead you up to your next failed attempt at recovery or refining (still not knowing how to catch your own fish)...

Give a man a fish he can eat one meal, and tomorrow he will be hungry again, Teach a man to fish and he can catch many meals on his own and may not suffer hunger tomorrow.

You do not need an answer (one fish) to this one question, you need to learn to fish (so you understand how to recover and refine precious metals). With study of Hoke's book, and your study of the forum, with a little help from members when you run into something you do not understand, and you can learn to become a fisherman of these precious metals.

If study and focus on the education, the fish will become easy to catch, it may take some time to learn, as there is a lot more to it than first meets the eye.

You say you read Hoke's and do not know the answers to your above questions, well your eyes missed it.
All of the answers were plainly in sight in her book, your too busy trying to get a minnow from the messes your making now, trying to recover and refine gold without an education, you missed the big school of fish she was trying to show you how to catch.

Cement the metals you have in solution using a clean copper buss bar, dry and save the metal powders, read up on dealing with waste and treat your toxic waste solutions for safe disposal.

Save the dried powders and the melted blob of metal you have now, and concentrate on studying, soon enough you will know exactly how to deal with this, and get your tiny bit of gold back from this mess, and most any other problem that may come along, you will learn the science and art of recovery and refining...


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## New2refining (Feb 17, 2015)

I have the knowledge I need I'm just pissing in the wind I don't like using chemicals if I don't have to and in my attempts to eliminate them in my refining I overlooked a simple step which is to karat my gold up before using salt water reverse electroplating to refine however if I use a dilute nitric solution it's actually perfect for lower karat parting but here we go again with those pesky chemicals I so like to avoid I'm actually very educated I just choose to ask redundant backwards questions I know the answers to. So put simply I'm right back to where I started, I was just hoping there was an easier way to get my gold back at this point maybe something I missed. But I guess not thanks anyway.


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## Geo (Feb 17, 2015)

All the salt water is doing is putting all of the metal into solution. Once you do that, it's no safer than any other process we use.


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## g_axelsson (Feb 17, 2015)

If you want to refine gold then you have to learn handling chemicals.

If you don't want to mess with chemicals then you can only recover gold and concentrate it by mechanical methods.

The only non chemical way to refine gold is to sell the scrap on ebay and then buy refined gold with the money.
... or pay someone to do it.

Göran


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## kurtak (Feb 17, 2015)

g_axelsson said:


> If you want to refine gold then you have to learn handling chemicals.
> 
> If you don't want to mess with chemicals then you can only recover gold and concentrate it by mechanical methods.
> 
> ...



Correct :!: 

Kurt


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## New2refining (Feb 17, 2015)

So if all the salt water bath does is part all my metal then I should be able to dissolve in ap cement out with copper powder refine with hcl/cl which would make it a pretty effective way of parting my impure gold.


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## Geo (Feb 17, 2015)

New2refining said:


> So if all the salt water bath does is part all my metal then I should be able to dissolve in ap cement out with copper powder refine with hcl/cl which would make it a pretty effective way of parting my impure gold.



That is one way, though you will need to use some concentrated H2O2 at least 35%. The 3% stuff you get from the drug store is not strong enough and you will wind up with gallons of solution for a small amount of gold.


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## New2refining (Feb 17, 2015)

I ran my powder this morning through ap and I have a beautiful half inch layer of bright yellow gold precipitate sitting on bottom looks like I found my gold and my electroparting all my metals worked great for me thx for everyone who helped talk me down off my cliff


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## Profikiskery (Feb 17, 2015)

Post us some pictures when you can.....and congratulations. I have made pure silver but have yet to pour anything. The stuff is so shiny I just watch it. It like watching a fire in the fire place. 

Craig


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## New2refining (Feb 17, 2015)

It is really cool to look at in hcl suspension it streaks through it ill def post some pics when I get a chance it is pretty to look at. I'm def gonna refine more in hcl/cl just to be sure it's pure either way its pure enough to put some green back in my pocket which by now my wife is bout ready to cut my head off, I've processed over 1000 computers about 1500 printers and close to 500 flat screen monitors not incl the money invested in scrap like antique pocket watch cases which people try to screw you on price for some reason everyone on eBay seems to think they are solid gold. I did fare pretty well on a cpl of old Philadelphia cases 2" size I was told they were plated with 10-14 karat mine tested 1-18k and the other 22k filled so I ain't complaining I paid 40 for the pair.


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## New2refining (Feb 17, 2015)

I do have another question about an old container of ap solution I noticed a heavy black layer just on the bottom maybe gold? I added some powdered copper and not really any change. I filtered it and didn't really get much to speak of in the filter as it sat I noticed the same black layer any ideas?


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## Barren Realms 007 (Feb 17, 2015)

New2refining said:


> I do have another question about an old container of ap solution I noticed a heavy black layer just on the bottom maybe gold? I added some powdered copper and not really any change. I filtered it and didn't really get much to speak of in the filter as it sat I noticed the same black layer any ideas?



Not a good idea to use powdered copper. Use a copper bar or copper pipe.


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## NobleMetalWorks (Feb 17, 2015)

New2refining said:


> I do have another question about an old container of ap solution I noticed a heavy black layer just on the bottom maybe gold? I added some powdered copper and not really any change. I filtered it and didn't really get much to speak of in the filter as it sat I noticed the same black layer any ideas?



If gold was dissolved into your AP solution, copper will force the gold back out of solution as the copper is dissolved. You should know this if you are familiar with the reactivity series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactivity_series

If you have read Hoke, I would suggest reading her again. When stating what you have accomplished, it is confusing because you are using terms in the incorrect way. For example, if you dissolve a bar in AP, that is mostly copper. The brown powder you find is not a precipitant. If the powder is brown, it is probably gold that never dissolved into solution, and thus was literally left over when the copper was dissolved into your AP solution. That means it's parted, mostly likely finely parted.

It's painful for those who know better, to watch someone stumble around, seemingly in the dark. When Butcher gives you good solid advice, and you choose to respond in a combative way, and refuse as well to follow it, claiming instead you already possess the knowledge yourself it seems ego-centric at the very least.

The title of your post is:


> Messing around a little with solder and salt



We do not "mess around" with anything here, we take what we do very serious. And in case you did not already realize this, when you use salt in an electrolytic process, or in your case a galvanic cell, you are still producing things that are considered dangerous. You should understand the chemistry you are employing better, you do not yet understand enough to even realize what you are doing is still considered dangerous. When you are using a salt water or brine cell, you are creating Chlorine, and perhaps chlorine gas, which happens to be very dangerous indeed. I hope you are doing this in a well ventilated area.

Again, I notice the terms you are using are not correct, when you ask a question like this:



> Edit: Can things cement out when the solution isn't acidic? If so this would be a lot easier for me.



You are not cementing in a scenario like this, you are forcing what is in solution out because of the change in PH. Cementing is when you displace something, by introducing something else where as in the example of cementing silver from a silver nitrate solution is done by adding copper, and the silver cements out on the copper.



New2refining said:


> I've actually read hokes book and nowhere have I e found an answer to my question as to where my gold is and how to recover if you have a page number as to help I would appreciate the help



If you didn't find the answers in regards to your questions, it's because you didn't read Hoke, or if you did, you didn't pay attention, nor did you retain the information. You are using a shotgun method of refining, where you accumulate a bunch of information you obtain all over the internet, some of it good, some of it bad, some of it dangerous, some speculation and perhaps even alchemy. You then try multiple ways of doing several different things with the same solutions or materials in an attempt to affect some sort of positive outcome.

In doing this, you are creating solutions where you are not sure what is actually involved in the solution. Producing gases you are not even aware of. Creating messes you do not understand are dangerous, nor how to recover or even test for values in solution, and it goes on and on. You are on a path to harming yourself or those around you. It's like a train wreck in slow motion. You should stop, take advice of those that know far more than you do. Study, and then study more, and then study until what is being said to you makes complete sense, and you realize that you really don't know very much of anything at all. Properly humbled, perhaps then you will be ready to take serious direction from those that know far more than you do, using the correct terms to do so in order to affect a positive outcome. But until you stop what you are currently doing, and do what you have been advised to do, you will continue to make mistakes, and potentially put yourself and those around you in a situation where real harm can come to you or them. 

There were so many other things that I could mention about your post, but I started to feel that I was just being negative, and really don't like expressing myself in that way. I would like to say that you should be careful using text shortened phrases, for example IDK instead of I Don't Know. Text speak is not really acceptable on this forum, as you would probably realize if you did any serious reading prior to posting what you have.

I would also like to say this, for any given material or situation, there is already a process in place or perhaps several that will allow you to experience a positive outcome, and that you should be following. It's all fine and dandy to familiarize yourself with specific reactions, and if you were really reading Hoke you may have come to the conclusion, at her suggestion, that familiarity tests are the smart way to start any serious attempt at understanding the chemistry we use in what we do here. But to re-invent the wheel, to follow the directions of dubious internet sources, to rely on the sales pitch of companies like you mentioned is not the proper way to learn. In order to advance your cause and serve your purpose properly, I would suggest taking the advice of senior members, specially those who give of their experience and time freely, without compensation, just to help people like you. Stop what you are doing, study, before you harm yourself or others.

Scott


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## New2refining (Feb 17, 2015)

Regardless of how much research you do there is still a point where you have to get your hands dirty so to speak and some of us learn better hands on. I don't do anything half hearted I put both feet in and get wet needless to say I have more than enough knowledge to know exactly what I'm doing and the by products as well as I may be new to refinement of precious metals i am by no means new to chemistry yes there is still much to learn about certain process but what I already know is proven I am furthering my education in refinement with every process and maybe some new ways as well, it's pioneers like myself that discovered the methods you use today to refine. I like to pose ridiculous questions to see how people react as much as I love chemistry I love people and interaction to see how people will respond. You really don't think I know what's in my acid peroxide solution or better yet to use a buss bar to cement out. Its good to see that most of you would likely stop some hair brained kid from killing himself or someone else. As far as my title I'm just reposting from a thread someone else started I don't mess around with anything.


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## New2refining (Feb 17, 2015)

It's nice to see many of you are very passionate about what you do, not everyone is cut out for this. I tend to learn everything I can then test what I know against what I don't forcing myself to learn even more. Take gold for example gold has a three dimensional crystalline structure , as does quartz rock and glass. Most people don't know quartz and glass both contain gold and platinum in mono atomic form, by placing your quart rock or glass in a microwave kiln we can now add the missing electrons needed to grow the gold or platinum yea it takes many repeated steps of heating in intervals to achieve the proper temp without destroying your microwave but yea it's possible to remove gold from stuff like this, ten years ago mono atomic studies were pipe dreams and now there being proven everyday. So when I'm not crushing up brown beer bottles and growing gold and platinum in my microwave I'm busy trying to salvage old electronics and gold filled jewelry seems to be a cheaper method of getting precious metals than burning up 7 microwaves in an afternoon. And it's nice to meet some people who love what they do and treat it as the art that it is.


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 17, 2015)

New2refining said:


> Most people don't know quartz and glass both contain gold and platinum in mono atomic form, by placing your quart rock or glass in a microwave kiln we can now add the missing electrons needed to grow the gold or platinum yea it takes many repeated steps of heating in intervals to achieve the proper temp without destroying your microwave but yea it's possible to remove gold from stuff like this, ten years ago mono atomic studies were pipe dreams and now there being proven everyday.


Sorry but there will be no discussion of alchemy in any form on the forum. This will be your only warning.

If this "baby" "immature" gold in quartz can't be detected or assayed by conventional means, such as fire assay, yet can be made to "grow" and become "mature" by other means, we absolutely don't want to hear about it.


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 17, 2015)

New2refining said:


> I like to pose ridiculous questions to see how people react as much as I love chemistry I love people and interaction to see how people will respond.





Wikipedia said:


> In Internet slang, a *troll* (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.


Dave


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## Harold_V (Feb 18, 2015)

New2refining said:


> Regardless of how much research you do there is still a point where you have to get your hands dirty so to speak and some of us learn better hands on. I don't do anything half hearted I put both feet in and get wet needless to say I have more than enough knowledge to know exactly what I'm doing and the by products as well as I may be new to refinement of precious metals i am by no means new to chemistry yes there is still much to learn about certain process but what I already know is proven I am furthering my education in refinement with every process and maybe some new ways as well, it's pioneers like myself that discovered the methods you use today to refine. I like to pose ridiculous questions to see how people react as much as I love chemistry I love people and interaction to see how people will respond. You really don't think I know what's in my acid peroxide solution or better yet to use a buss bar to cement out. Its good to see that most of you would likely stop some hair brained kid from killing himself or someone else. As far as my title I'm just reposting from a thread someone else started I don't mess around with anything.


I have been too busy to follow this thread, but I'm not too thrilled with what I've seen thus far. 

My advice to you is to come down off your high horse and start paying attention to those who have offered their expert advise. If you choose to do otherwise, you're not going to do it here. 

Do we have an understanding?

This is not a rhetorical question. I want a response. One that is not forthcoming will be interpreted as "go to hell". That's not a smart way to deal with me if you have hopes of remaining on this board. 

Also, take note. We do not allow text lingo. If you have something to say, spell it out. No more of your shortcuts. 

Harold


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## NobleMetalWorks (Feb 18, 2015)

New2refining said:


> Regardless of how much research you do there is still a point where you have to get your hands dirty so to speak and some of us learn better hands on.



There is no point where you literally should be getting your hands dirty, you should be wearing proper protecting from subjecting your literal skin to becoming dirty in any of these processes. If you learn better "Hands On" then perhaps you should be benefiting from hands on instruction, from a Professor that knows better, so that you can learn under their direct supervision. Chemistry is nothing to experiment with, certainly when you have very little actual or practical experience with it.



New2refining said:


> I don't do anything half hearted I put both feet in and get wet needless to say I have more than enough knowledge to know exactly what I'm doing and the by products as well as I may be new to refinement of precious metals i am by no means new to chemistry yes there is still much to learn about certain process but what I already know is proven I am furthering my education in refinement with every process and maybe some new ways as well,



First, we do not do anything with our heart in regards to chemistry or the processes we use to accomplish our end goals. Half Hearted would mean that you were kind of half way WANTING to do something. It has nothing to do with your ability to actually do anything if you are describing your knowledge or understanding. Putting both feet in and getting wet, in regards to what we do here is not only ridicules to even suggest, but foolhardy enough to mention that it is dangerous for you to suggest this might be some kind of admirable trait. I am sorry to state it in this way, but this is the truth of it. To jump in with both feet, without knowing what you are doing is not just foolhardy, it is plain stupidity. If you cannot see or understand this fact, then there is no good reason you should be attempting any of this, period, at all, in any shape, form nor fashion. You are dangerous, and not in a romantic "full hearted" way. You are painfully, and very obviously BRAND NEW to chemistry, as well you also obviously do not benefit from any formal training in chemistry as you have not even accumulated enough understanding nor knowledge to use the correct terms, to understand how utterly ridicules some of your suggestions sound, nor to express yourself in any way that would lead even the most novice of chemists to believe you have even read one book. I would tend to believe, and assume to be far more likely, that you have watched videos, read short paragraphs on specific things hoping and looking for some new novel and exciting way to invent gold out of pure nothing. And by the way, I hate to break this news to you. You have not found any "new" way to process anything. Matter of fact you are like a child, stumbling around, trying to walk and once learning how to put one foot in front of the other cracking a giant smile in thinking you are the first person to ever take a first baby step. Yet all of us have been walking for decades and smile because we understand you have just barely taken your very first baby step, and seem so playfully excited about doing so.



New2refining said:


> it's pioneers like myself that discovered the methods you use today to refine.



You sir, are no pioneer. You are so far removed from a time when people were carefully exploring and yet still encountering deadly accidents as to sound utterly ignorant in thinking that you could possibly be a pioneer of chemistry. Please, give up this romantic view of chemistry. We are dealing with in-organic chemistry almost always, and when we are forced to deal with any organics, wish to rid our solutions of it by using, in-organic chemistry. We most likely, as human beings, know everything about traditional inorganic chemistry today, as we will ever know. There are only so many elements that can be put together in only so many ways. It is set. So please, no pretending, no fantasies about being a pioneer. It only again makes us all painfully aware of just how little education you possess in the area of chemistry, and as well I am sure it is insulting to those who have obtained degrees in this field as well, or others who have learned over years on their own.



New2refining said:


> I like to pose ridiculous questions to see how people react as much as I love chemistry I love people and interaction to see how people will respond. You really don't think I know what's in my acid peroxide solution or better yet to use a buss bar to cement out.



I believe that anyone who suggests a ridicules question, and then later wishes to retract it and save face at the same time would also propose that they were just doing it to see how people would respond. But it is a childish attempt to lead people to believe that you are just doing it as some sort of social experiment. What you are proposing is the reason for the way you have conducted yourself would really amount to, if you were being honest, your thinking you could mislead and trick all of us, as if you are more intelligent or somehow more knowledgeable, would amount to trolling, or instigating conversation for your amusement. And that would not be acceptable in any case. It's all fun to tease and joke, but when it comes down to information used to do what we do here, we do not allow humor to cause us to post information that is dangerous, damaging, demeaning, etc. I doubt seriously you understand what a buss bar is, but I don't doubt, after I have said this, that you will hurry and seek out the information by entering it in a google search, so that you can pretend you knew all along. To cement out, a buss bar made of the right metal could be used, but it's not a buss bar specifically you would use, but a solid piece of the correct metal. You see, you missed the suggestion prior and why the suggestion was made, to use a solid piece of metal, in this case copper, instead of copper powder. You made the mistake of assuming powder would for whatever reason be better, and didn't realize you were being told that a solid piece of copper would be. 



New2refining said:


> Its good to see that most of you would likely stop some hair brained kid from killing himself or someone else. As far as my title I'm just reposting from a thread someone else started I don't mess around with anything.



You are the hair brained kid we are trying to keep from killing himself. Also, dangerous mistakes do not distinguish between male nor female. By expressing "himself" as the person who would potentially make the mistake, you do realize that you are really talking about yourself, without even realizing when you did so that you were. Even you realize the way you are acting is dangerous.



New2refining said:


> I've processed over 1000 computers about 1500 printers and close to 500 flat screen monitors



I seriously doubt you have processed over 1000 computers, I doubt even more the 1500 printers or close to 500 flat screens. If you have, then please tell us all what you were able to obtain from 1500 printers that were of value, and the 500 flat screens. I would be even more curious if you could tell us WHY you would want to process any flat screens or know what parts of the flat screen are even worth processing, and what process you used to obtain what would be considered values.



New2refining said:


> Take gold for example gold has a three dimensional crystalline structure , as does quartz rock and glass. Most people don't know quartz and glass both contain gold and platinum in mono atomic form



To simply, and easily put your argument about "mono atomic gold and platinum" to rest, without arguing I would simply tell you to study a little more about Chemistry, specifically van der Waals force, Enough said on that. To understand why gold exists in quartz, you should really study a little Geology. The reason gold is in quartz is because of geological forces. First, it took the folding of stratified rock over millions or perhaps billions of years. Next it took gold and the minerals that comprise quartz millions of not billions of years to accumulate in enough quantity so that once they were folded, through plate tectonics, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and made their way to a place where they then became heated to a point they turned to liquid slurry, and then were forced up through "veins" or tubes into stratified and folded rock on the surface, or close enough to the surface that we could mine the gold within a reasonable enough distance to the surface to allow it to be possible, and then solidified. As the quartz and whatever else including gold cooled, the quartz tended to accumulate separate from the gold because they do not have an affinity for each other. This is why we see VEINS of gold, and why some small amounts of gold are also captured, and suspended within quartz. But none of it is "mono-atomic". Gold exists within quartz because it bubbled up through the earths crust with the minerals that created quartz, but not in a "mono-atomic" state.



New2refining said:


> burning up 7 microwaves in an afternoon. And it's nice to meet some people who love what they do and treat it as the art that it is.



Just what you are attempting to do with microwaves alone is incredibly dangerous. Do you not understand, that in order to keep your microwaves from burning up you need to separate the material you are putting in your microwave from interacting with the inside of the microwave? Is even that simple concept utterly lost upon you? Not that I am suggesting putting anything metal in a microwave, or anything not food in a microwave is acceptable at any time, but honestly, come on.



New2refining said:


> by placing your quart rock or glass in a microwave kiln we can now add the missing electrons needed to grow the gold or platinum yea it takes many repeated steps of heating in intervals to achieve the proper temp



Glass? No, Quartz might contain gold, but not glass unless it was done on purpose to create a specific type of glass. By microwaving anything, you are not "adding" electrons otherwise you would literally be metamorphosing food into something else when you used a microwave to heat food. Do you not understand even enough about science to realize how utterly impossible, and totally ridicules what you are proposing sounds like? Do you also realize that you cannot "grow" gold, that it only exists because a sun went super-nova at some point. To understand this, you would need to study a little about cosmology, astronomy, etc. I am going to forgo explaining this process. But it should be evident that it would stand to reason, that creating gold atoms in your microwave or "growing gold" would be impossible if only you simply realize how gold was created and why it exists in the first place.

I want you to think about this for just one moment before you try to respond. I have only replied to a few of your posts on this thread, and in every single one I have pointed out numerous things that were incorrect, wrong, absolutely outside the realm of possible, and more. I could go on and continue to point out where you are misleading, incorrect, absolutely wrong, expressing things that are dangerous in nature, etc but I hope, and think, that I have already said more than enough to bring these things to your attention. Perhaps after reading far more than you have, studying even more than that, reading even more again, following very concise instructions, practicing over and over and over, interacting with people here in a more humble and respectful way you might, just perhaps, gain enough experience and knowledge to effectively and efficiently recover and refine precious metals. But you have much further to travel in this respect than someone who comes to this forum knowing nothing. And this because you really do seem to think you know things that you must first un-know before you can accept what we already know to be truth. Alchemy is a belief, it's mysticism, it's believing in magical processes that have no basis in actual scientific explanation, it's believing that something is possible without empirical data, without physical proof, without any form of scientifically rigorous testing. The very first thing you need to do is take all that you believe or think you know that is related to alchemy, and discard it. Put it so far outside your mind that it never, ever comes up in conversation again, because it is absolutely, without any doubt, incorrect in every single possible way.

I get the feeling you react the way you do because you desperately want respect. You should realize if you are old enough to be married, that respect is not something you can trick people into feeling towards you. It's not something you can fool people into feeling towards you. It's not something you instantly attain by posting absolute crap without even realizing how dangerous and useless your information is. It is something earned. And in this rodeo you are just a rodeo clown among cowboy legends, and not even wearing a very good clown suit.

Scott


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## rickbb (Feb 18, 2015)

I'm starting to enjoy this one, hope it doesn't get locked too soon. I've missed the last few of these. :lol:


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

Here's for starters older flat screens and newer have large gold fingers the Length of the screen many older hp printers have quite a bit of gold in them mainly the older print heads were heavy gold plated pins and springs I've recovered close to 1/4 gram from a single printer. Aside all that I've been saving gold e-scrap for close to 7 or 8 years now and 1000 would be an massive underestimate. And to take literally I get my hands dirty is just bordering on absurd, I pose dumb questions to see the true character of people on this forum, and so far I could care less if I'm not welcome here, ooh what will I ever do. And further more I have my masters in organic and inorganic chemistry. With a full lab to my disposal. And don't need advice or help from anyone here I was testing the waters to find the level of intelligence on this forum. This is why I stopped responding because frankly I just don't care. It's the same on every site and forum pretty much out there.


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

I don't get to sit at the cool kids table the real issue here is none of you ever grew up past high school mentality and yeah I get off on screwing with tools that are mentally inferior and newsflash mono atomic gold exists in many elements wether your inferior brain can comprehend it I was dumbing down the science for idiots like you might grasp it. And yes microwaving glass and quartz glass being made from sand which can contain gold as well both contain gold in mono atomic form which obviously you know nothing about. But why do I bother trying to explain something you'll never understand, take care and shove your stupid forum like I give a crap


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## g_axelsson (Feb 20, 2015)

New2refining said:


> I pose dumb questions to see the true character of people on this forum, and so far I could care less if I'm not welcome here, ooh what will I ever do.


Posting stupid questions usually tells more about the person posting them and I have formed my opinion about you.

Either you are stupid or just trolling and I won't miss your contributions either way.

For a shining example of how someone with great knowledge and integrity once started posting on this board, look at freechemist first post to the forum : http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9058&p=86035#p86035
That is how it should be done.

Just shut up, no one is buying your mono atomic gold theories. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

If I was a moderator I would have banned you myself, now I just have to lean back and watch some one else doing it. :mrgreen: 

Göran


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

for all those who say you cant do it without chemicals can shove this where the sun dont shine its called chemistry something you can all take a page from respectfully the pioneers changing the game to a safe alternative
Gold recovery using environmentally benign chemistry is imperative from an environmental perspective. The spontaneous assembly of a one-dimensional supramolecular complex with an extended {[K(OH2)6][AuBr4] (α-cyclodextrin)2}n chain superstructure formed during the rapid co-precipitation of α-cyclodextrin and KAuBr4 in water. This phase change is selective for this gold salt, even in the presence of other square-planar palladium and platinum complexes. From single-crystal X-ray analyses of six inclusion complexes between α-, β- and γ-cyclodextrins with KAuBr4 and KAuCl4, we hypothesize that a perfect match in molecular recognition between α-cyclodextrin and [AuBr4]− leads to a near-axial orientation of the ion with respect to the α-cyclodextrin channel, which facilitates a highly specific second-sphere coordination involving [AuBr4]− and [K(OH2)6]+ and drives the co-precipitation of the 1:2 adduct. This discovery heralds a green host–guest procedure for gold recovery from gold-bearing raw materials making use of α-cyclodextrin—an inexpensive and environmentally benign carbohydrate.


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 20, 2015)

New2refining said:


> for all those who say you cant do it without chemicals can shove this where the sun dont shine its called chemistry something you can all take a page from respectfully the pioneers changing the game to a safe alternative
> Gold recovery using environmentally benign chemistry is imperative from an environmental perspective. The spontaneous assembly of a one-dimensional supramolecular complex with an extended {[K(OH2)6][AuBr4] (α-cyclodextrin)2}n chain superstructure formed during the rapid co-precipitation of α-cyclodextrin and KAuBr4 in water. This phase change is selective for this gold salt, even in the presence of other square-planar palladium and platinum complexes. From single-crystal X-ray analyses of six inclusion complexes between α-, β- and γ-cyclodextrins with KAuBr4 and KAuCl4, we hypothesize that a perfect match in molecular recognition between α-cyclodextrin and [AuBr4]− leads to a near-axial orientation of the ion with respect to the α-cyclodextrin channel, which facilitates a highly specific second-sphere coordination involving [AuBr4]− and [K(OH2)6]+ and drives the co-precipitation of the 1:2 adduct. This discovery heralds a green host–guest procedure for gold recovery from gold-bearing raw materials making use of α-cyclodextrin—an inexpensive and environmentally benign carbohydrate.


Hmmm... That still sounds like you're using chemicals in your "chemistry". 

I guess I'm just too dumb to understand the distinction.

I promise I won't post on your threads anymore.

Dave


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## NobleMetalWorks (Feb 20, 2015)

New2refining said:


> I don't get to sit at the cool kids table the real issue here is none of you ever grew up past high school mentality



I'm sorry, did you say that you possess a degree in chemistry, or any of the other sciences? When you say "none of you ever grew up past high school mentality" you might lead someone to believe that you have gone further in your education, which I find hard to believe considering the way you have behaved on this forum. I happen to hold more than one graduate degree, yet I would never accuse anyone who posts intelligently of never moving past a high school mentality. It's not so much the education you receive or seek, but rather the education you have received , sought, and then intelligently employed that matters. In saying that, I would venture to say, and suspect, that there is far more intelligent and thoughtful people who post good solid information on this forum, who never obtained any degree, and then many who have. What you have said is only meant to insult the people who do contribute to this forum, and truly has no basis in fact.



New2refining said:


> and yeah I get off on screwing with tools



I have read about people with those types of sexual fetishes, and I doubt that there is any place on this forum where that type of act would be acceptable to express in any form. If we are to take what you said in a way not literally, but more metaphorical, then screwing around with tools or chemistry or acids or anything for that matter pertaining to the recovery and refining of precious metals is just pure folly, and dangerous.



New2refining said:


> that are mentally inferior



I think we can say with a fair amount of authority, that if anyone is mentally inferior, it would most likely be yourself, and not anyone who is a regular contributing member of this forum.



New2refining said:


> and newsflash mono atomic gold exists in many elements wether your inferior brain can comprehend it



It does not take a mentally inferior, nor a mentally superior brain to comprehend the fact when considering mono-atomic gold. All you have to do is refer to the science that has already been proven, time and again, in reference to the subject to realize that what you are talking about simply is not the case.



New2refining said:


> I was dumbing down the science for idiots like you might grasp it.



By all means, if you can refer to any empirical data, peer reviewed studies, actual scientific information that has been vetted, that proves your belief then please make it available for us to review, until that time I will refer to the actual real world evidence based in scientific proof.



New2refining said:


> And yes microwaving glass and quartz glass being made from sand which can contain gold as well both contain gold in mono atomic form which obviously you know nothing about.



If Quartz contains gold in amounts that can be recovered, then using a microwave kiln to melt and accumulate that gold might be possible. I don't know that it is, but it could be in the same way that crushing quartz and subjecting it to different extraction methods works. But you are not adding electronics and creating gold out of nothing, that is just pure bull crap. You seem to exist in a fantasy world where the laws of physics do not exist. Perhaps if you are able to transcend this reality and exist in some possible reality where the physical laws of nature are vastly different than in this reality, what you claim might be possible. But then again, those realities if they existed would be governed by a utterly different set of natural laws that would not allow you to exist because the same physical laws that allow you to exist, are also applied to the elements that we are discussing here.



New2refining said:


> But why do I bother trying to explain something you'll never understand, take care and shove your stupid forum like I give a crap



I get the feeling you feel humiliated, and feel that you need to attempt to humiliate those who have attempted to help you, or have commented on, and pointed out the parts of what you have stated that can in no way be true or real. This is my own personal perception. If you instead humbled yourself, realized that you could learn far more than you might impart on this forum. Respected those that have come before you, who in some cases possess decades worth of accumulated knowledge on this subject, then perhaps you will be ready to learn something of real value. But until that time, and so long as you believe so fervently that you are more correct than everyone else here, you will not benefit from being here and probably should choose to exit on your own. There is the door, it's nice and wide and can even accommodate your over inflated sense of self importance. It's the upright rectangle in the wall, just over there. The shiny knob about halfway up is what you use to open it, and if you need any help understanding how to make the door function please feel free to ask. We will be locking the door behind you until such a time as you can politely knock and ask to return, but until that time, if I were you, I would not expect anyone to invite you in as you have already proven to be the type of person who is intent on ruining the party.

I wish you luck, and hope you don't harm, injure or worse, yourself or those around you when you are "getting off" on playing with your chemistry kit. 


Scott


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## MarcoP (Feb 20, 2015)

New2refining said:


> for all those who say you cant do it without chemicals can shove this where the sun dont shine its called chemistry something you can all take a page from respectfully the pioneers changing the game to a safe alternative
> Gold recovery using environmentally benign chemistry is imperative from an environmental perspective. The spontaneous assembly of a one-dimensional supramolecular complex with an extended {[K(OH2)6][AuBr4] (α-cyclodextrin)2}n chain superstructure formed during the rapid co-precipitation of α-cyclodextrin and KAuBr4 in water. This phase change is selective for this gold salt, even in the presence of other square-planar palladium and platinum complexes. From single-crystal X-ray analyses of six inclusion complexes between α-, β- and γ-cyclodextrins with KAuBr4 and KAuCl4, we hypothesize that a perfect match in molecular recognition between α-cyclodextrin and [AuBr4]− leads to a near-axial orientation of the ion with respect to the α-cyclodextrin channel, which facilitates a highly specific second-sphere coordination involving [AuBr4]− and [K(OH2)6]+ and drives the co-precipitation of the 1:2 adduct. This discovery heralds a green host–guest procedure for gold recovery from gold-bearing raw materials making use of α-cyclodextrin—an inexpensive and environmentally benign carbohydrate.



I doubt smart people can also be rude. Why didn't you just give us the URL of the article you copied and pasted here (http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n5/full/ncomms2891.html), did you want to make it yours?


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n5/full/ncomms2891.html#figures

you all can take a page from this book and stop destroying the environment. I work in this field and develop new ways everyday for refining gold. I'm pretty sure I'm the one with the full lab paid for by your tax dollars. So for all you so called hobbyist your the biggest problem with gold refining there is more waste and environmental damage from hobbyist than large companies that are refining. Pretty soon they will all be refining this way or not at all, and your so precious chemicals will become illegal to even obtain. so have fun while you can.


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## lanfear (Feb 20, 2015)

If you are this smart and still think you can grow gold there has to be a short circuit somewere. But i guess that if i copy a key sentence from your post and paste it in Google, i will get a perfect match. Thanks for the amazing contributions to the forum, and have a good life.

Edit for norwegian autocorrect


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

gold in microwave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZBCgPuvmzI


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

it was meant to have the link since i posted it just keep on destroying the earth for a few dollars because that makes more sense.


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## NobleMetalWorks (Feb 20, 2015)

New2refining said:


> for all those who say you cant do it without chemicals can shove this where the sun dont shine its called chemistry something you can all take a page from respectfully the pioneers changing the game to a safe alternative
> Gold recovery using environmentally benign chemistry is imperative from an environmental perspective. The spontaneous assembly of a one-dimensional supramolecular complex with an extended {[K(OH2)6][AuBr4] (α-cyclodextrin)2}n chain superstructure formed during the rapid co-precipitation of α-cyclodextrin and KAuBr4 in water. This phase change is selective for this gold salt, even in the presence of other square-planar palladium and platinum complexes. From single-crystal X-ray analyses of six inclusion complexes between α-, β- and γ-cyclodextrins with KAuBr4 and KAuCl4, we hypothesize that a perfect match in molecular recognition between α-cyclodextrin and [AuBr4]− leads to a near-axial orientation of the ion with respect to the α-cyclodextrin channel, which facilitates a highly specific second-sphere coordination involving [AuBr4]− and [K(OH2)6]+ and drives the co-precipitation of the 1:2 adduct. This discovery heralds a green host–guest procedure for gold recovery from gold-bearing raw materials making use of α-cyclodextrin—an inexpensive and environmentally benign carbohydrate.



There does exist what is called "organic aqua regia" you can read more about it here;

https://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/89/i14/8914notw4.html

However, there does not yet exist a practical way to employ this in what we are doing everyday, and talk about on this forum, as of yet.

I use an organic solvent myself, you can read about it here:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4933

As well as many other places on this forum. However, you will still need to employ acids in refining gold extracted this way.

I even use other novel methods that are less dangerous than some other processes, but in each, it is required that I also use acids at some stage.

Gold can be extracted in many different ways, and refined in still many other ways. Some of which are more benign than others but each requiring steps in the process that do create acids, bases or other harmful by-products such as gases or residuals that require proper processing or disposal. There is no method currently that would allow someone to recover and process precious metals without using some method that required serious safety precautions in order to prevent the possibility of serious injury, harm, or in some cases even death.

I would like to say, one last thing in regards to your offensive drive by posting. In posting information, it's always the best practice to note your reference material. Since you did not, and since you seem to be stating certain things as if you wrote them yourself I thought perhaps it might add clarity by providing a link to the document you have obviously plagiarized in your attempt to lead us to believe you possess any intelligence at all. So for those who are interested, you can read the full documentation here:

http://www.gibbgroup.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Book-of-Abstracts-Final-copy1.pdf 

In your narcissistic rage, you have exposed yourself to be a specific type of person. Those types of people do not last very long here and never gain the satisfaction through their bad behavior, they so desperately seem to be seeking. Allow me to describe the way I personally might view someone like you. I picture you, angry, upset, standing on your office chair while it swivels and you attempt to keep your balance. Pointing at the computer screen, yelling, screaming, face beat red, blood pressure over the top, spittle flying from your mouth between the few teeth left in your head, loosing your mind and saying things that make no sense at all while your neighbors desperately call for the police to knock on your door because to them, it sounds like someone is doing very bad things to a wild animal. If it were not so obvious that you are on a path of self injury instead of self discovery, I might even smile and chuckle at your infantile attempts to anger those who have tried so very hard to help you in ways you cannot even begin to comprehend. Perhaps, once you have learned to properly write, and read, and have read enough, studied enough, practiced enough, and then changed your name and finally request to be a member of this site and behave like a normal human might, one who is respectfully seeking understanding and knowledge and willing to share actual proven methods of processing, recovering and refining precious metals you might, just perhaps, elevate yourself and become a productive contributing member of this forum. But until that time, well, all I have to say that I believe you might understand is simply, duh.

Scott


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## NobleMetalWorks (Feb 20, 2015)

New2refining said:


> gold in microwave
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZBCgPuvmzI



At no time in this video does this person actually show live, recovering any precious metals from glass or anything else for that matter. Is says he does, but even the silver he produced, and showed melting in the home made microwave kiln he admitted to buying.

Do you not think in your wild, crazy and deluded sense of reality even, that if those things we are saying are not possible actually were, that industry would be employing those methods to extract, recover, refine or otherwise process precious metals?

Do you honestly believe this person would imparting this type of information on a cheap fold up table, at an event that is obviously very small in nature? Do you truly believe that if this person were able to extract any amount of any precious metal worth anything, he would not be able to afford the proper microwave he admits costs $3,000? Are you honestly not capable of thinking of these things all on your own without someone having to explain what seems obvious to me?

Scott


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 20, 2015)

Please don't feed the troll.
Scroll down to the fourth post.

Oh, sorry new2, I lied.

Dave


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

And in context I think you might understand , umm wait a sec I'm not quite sure I speak dipshit, it's okay you win your the smartest guy on the forum, it's kind of like being the smartest one on the short bus.


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## NobleMetalWorks (Feb 20, 2015)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Please don't feed the troll.
> Scroll down to the fourth post.
> 
> Oh, sorry new2, I lied.
> ...



Dave,

Understood, at this point I am going to take your advice. It's hard for me, when I see information that is so obviously misleading and incorrect, to allow it to stand without a response. I fear others may come along later, read what he has stated, and make an unfortunate and costly mistake because of it.

But I do understand what you mean, and do realize that what I say could be considered feeding an obvious troll.

Thank you

Scott


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

just because recovering gold in a microwave from glass and quartz isnt economical doesnt mean that it cant be done try educating yourself. its okay i realize now i accidentally got on the short bus my mistake. Be my guest and disprove it.


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

the video wasnt proof if youd like proof i can provide it. But i can see it might take me all day


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## Barren Realms 007 (Feb 20, 2015)

New2refining said:


> And in context I think you might understand , umm wait a sec I'm not quite sure I speak dipshit, it's okay you win your the smartest guy on the forum, it's kind of like being the smartest one on the short bus.



Do you see that twinkle of light in the corner of your eye? That is your life expectancy on the forum diminishing if you continue to talk to members this way.


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

and yeah i do find it quite amusing that so many people get there panties in a twist. its meaningless words your reading from some stranger on a computer try not being so emotionally invested in what everyone says.


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

thats my point i dont care boot away i find it quite amusing if i really gave a crap and was so mad id open a billion dif accounts just to piss you off even more but i dont get emotionally invested in complete strangers ramblings. Lets call this one pysch exp. 2110


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

its quite funny this all started because i said it was possible to part my gold alloy using a galvanic cell then using hydrochloric acid and peroxide to dissolve base metals , followed by hydrochloric acid and Sodium hypochlorite to refine. I was told i dont know what im talking about and I dont know what i could be creating. Truly defining because I have used this method many times to refine, was just curious if anyone else had. If someone could please tell me how or what it is im creating that is dangerous that I dont already know I will gladly stand defeated. Just because someone doesnt follow your rule book doesnt mean it cant be broken.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Feb 20, 2015)

New2refining said:


> its quite funny this all started because i said it was possible to part my gold alloy using a galvanic cell then using hydrochloric acid and peroxide to dissolve base metals , followed by hydrochloric acid and Sodium hypochlorite to refine. I was told i dont know what im talking about and I dont know what i could be creating. Truly defining because I have used this method many times to refine, was just curious if anyone else had. If someone could please tell me how or what it is im creating that is dangerous that I dont already know I will gladly stand defeated. Just because someone doesnt follow your rule book doesnt mean it cant be broken.



You are using a lot more chemicals to process your material with the combination of solution's you have stated above than what is necessary. This leads the way to the possibility of a greater loss of your PM's and a larger amount of waste solution's to deal with. I have used the processes you have mentioned above except for the galvanic cell. I don't have to be kicked in the head to be told that there is an easier, safer and less time consuming way to process material than what you are stating.

I am also old enough to know better than to talk to my piers in a disrespectful manner and willing to listen to what they have said and take into account that they might possibly know a better way of doing thing's than what I might be doing.

You might not like the person that is advising you and as you say this is the interent and things don't always come across the same way as they do when you are speaking to someone in person. But at least have the decency to ask question's about what you are being advised or suggested to do rather than flying off at the blink of an eye and attacking someone here just because they don't agree with you.


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## NobleMetalWorks (Feb 20, 2015)

I tend to agree with Dave, that feeding the exotic fantasies with empirical data and real science only encourages a troll to continue on what seems to be his intended mission, that of disrupting the real value of this forum.

I would encourage everyone else to follow Dave's lead, and not feed the troll. It's becoming evident that he enjoys this in a morbid fashion, but if we do not respond to his obvious and infantile trolling we will take all wind out of his sails. In responding in this way, by not responding, he will move along and find another forum to harass or to extol the virtues of his wild claims and imagination.

Scott


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

just because someone has a different approach to the same task be it backwards, or harder or even at a loss of metals telling someone it cant be done and they dont know what they are doing when you dont have a clue as to who they are is disrespectful, I treat people as i am treated, I never asked for help nor did i say it was even how i process my gold all I did was pose a question if it was possible. I wanted to see if anyone else had done it this way. I was just further exploring ways of refining. It could have very easily been replied yes it can be done that way however its not the best or most efficient way not that it cant be done and you dont know what your doing. Sorry I take offense when someone tells me I'm wrong and have no clue as to what i am doing i am very capable. whatever was said I truly dont care. I know what methods are proven and what are not. I was just exploring different ways of skinning a cat. Just because something isnt the best way to do it, I take pleasure in exploring any potential of perhaps discovering something easier or new.


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## Geo (Feb 20, 2015)

New2refining, if you are experienced in refining and you call yourself "New2refining", isn't that a little like misrepresentation? If you had disclosed that you used and understood the copper(II) chloride process and was having some sort of difficulty, the responses you would have received would be much different. 

Let me enlighten you to some certainties here. We are a close knit group first and foremost. If you attack one, you attack us all. Anyone can be in this group no matter your age, ethnicity, social status, gender, orientation, country of origin, or any other factor that separates one from another. You can be part of this group. To be a part of this group, there are rules that you must abide by and most of them are as simple as "treat people the way you want to be treated". One thing to keep in mind is this is not a free for all. This is a serious forum because the subject matter can be and is very dangerous. Each of us are guest here with no guaranty of continued membership. It is entirely up to you whether you stay here or not. If you truly want to stay and learn, you will watch your P's and Q's and try not to ruffle too many feathers. When you ask a question, it should start with "please" and end with "thank you" because no one here has to answer any question and if they do, it should be considered a gift. 

Let me give you some advice, stop the name calling now as it is not tolerated. It doesn't have to be direct as innuendo will have the same effect.
Do not mention alchemy again. You will never get gold out of beer bottles and to try and argue the point is meaningless. If you can do it, great, get rich and leave us ignorant people doing it the old fashioned way.
Apologize for offending anyone. It's only polite and it makes you a better person. 
Conduct yourself as though you are in a class room. Ask an intelligent question and you will get an intelligent answer.

All the best, Jeff.


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

I am truly sorry for being offensive toward anyone. I can admit when I am wrong and yeah I didnt need to say the things i did. As far as intelligent questions can anyone please if they have the time answer this. What would be the purpose of dropping certain values like lead with sulfuric prior to precipitating my gold from Aqua regia is it for the sole purpose of higher refinement I for one havent noticed much of a difference if I do or not it seems like an unnecessary step?


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## Geo (Feb 20, 2015)

Lead is a contaminant that most try to avoid. After the dissolution and before filtering, the sulfuric will precipitate the lead as lead sulfate which can be filtered out of solution. Old electronics has a lot of lead in it.

Lead in gold will make the gold brittle and unsuitable for jewelry making.


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## New2refining (Feb 20, 2015)

that makes sense i usually refine e-scrap with acid and peroxide and aqua regia for all my other scrap broken jewelry etc. Probably not a lot of lead in jewelry hence why i dont need to drop it, thank you.


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## Geo (Feb 20, 2015)

We use the abbreviation "AP" here loosely. Copper(II) chloride, (AP) , is a recovery process where you dissolve the base metal leaving the hard to oxidize metal (gold, silver, PGM's ) behind with the exception of palladium that will dissolve in AP. Acid/Peroxide using HCl and hydrogen peroxide of 35% concentration is a refining process because it will put gold into solution. The terminology is subtle but can lead to misunderstanding. A good example of why proper spelling and correct terminology is a must.


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## lanfear (Feb 20, 2015)

Dont be taken in by this guys BS. He needs to be removed from this forum at once. He is the biggest forum troll I have ever seen. Dont feed it.


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## butcher (Feb 20, 2015)

We have one less member new2refiner on the forum, his childish pride got him a boot out the door.


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## rewalston (Feb 20, 2015)

butcher said:


> We have one less member new2refiner on the forum, his childish pride got him a boot out the door.


I'm afraid that he will probably be back a multitude of times under different names, as he said he doesn't care and likes to stir the water.

Rusty


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## Geo (Feb 20, 2015)

Oh well, C'est la vie. He brought it on himself. Let this be an example of what not to do to any non-member guest or "lurkers", I'f you want to be a member here, behave yourself.


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 20, 2015)

I'm locking this worthless thread.


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## Harold_V (Feb 20, 2015)

rewalston said:


> butcher said:
> 
> 
> > We have one less member new2refiner on the forum, his childish pride got him a boot out the door.
> ...


If he returns, he will be discovered. I'll personally pursue this matter and see to it that he is reported to the proper authorities, and see to it that his employer is notified of his less than acceptable behavior. 

Harold


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