# New 30 Day Lockout Policy For New Members



## srlaulis (Apr 26, 2013)

I just thought I would start a new thread to see what type of "Yay" or "Nay" feedback it would get. In this thread, I am not looking for thoughts or debate...just a "Yes" or "No" if you agree or disagree.

The idea is all new members will NOT be able to post for 30 days from the time they register with GRF.

*I vote Yes!*


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## joem (Apr 26, 2013)

I say no
there are some smart new members who we can learn from right away.


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## jimdoc (Apr 26, 2013)

joem said:


> I say no
> there are some smart new members who we can learn from right away.




Maybe certain new members can be banished to the "no post zone" if they need it.

Jim


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## jmdlcar (Apr 26, 2013)

I say NO cause how can they learn without asking. After I read any thing then some time I forget 1 hours later. My wife said cause I'm getting old. And search alway don't work.

Jack


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## glondor (Apr 26, 2013)

I say no. It would not be good policy. The alternative would be paid membership with paid members only sections and limits on messaging and access for non paying members. I don't really like that idea either. Noxx and Co. have put together a fine forum here, and I hope it remains the same. We just have to be diligent in "taking out the garbage". The moderators do a good job.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 26, 2013)

This has been suggested several times. I say no, emphatically no.


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## Geo (Apr 26, 2013)

this has been discussed 15 ways from Sunday and the consensus is always the same.i believe it falls under the domain of censorship. for the most part, we (as members) are self policing and it works pretty well. you will always have new members coming on screaming and crying about all the stuff they have messed up and cant figure out what to do. how they react to the replies they receive will tell you what kind of member they will become or whether they will be booted out fairly quickly.if the new member is willing to take the advice and do what they are instructed to do by the people who know what they are doing (misinformation doesnt stand for long) then they will have no problem fitting in.on the other hand, if the become demanding or disruptive or combative, its adios amigo. consider it a weeding out process of whos worthy to be a member and whos not.


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## CBentre (Apr 26, 2013)

I say No but im in favour of a paid membership


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 26, 2013)

CBentre said:


> I say No but im in favour of a paid membership


Another terrible idea that's been kicked around several times in the past.


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## Harold_V (Apr 27, 2013)

The idea of having new readers unable to post isn't all bad, but by allowing new readers who don't have the wisdom to do their homework to post quickly, they float to the top, where they are challenged, and often banned as a result. 

The only problem I have with this scenario is I come across looking like a heavy, although that's not exactly by accident. Once I see that a reader has a poor sense of direction, and isn't willing to listen to advice tendered, demanding instant gratification instead, I tend to aggravate by insisting on him/her doing their homework, which includes reading Hoke's book. What that does is provide an indicator that the individual is sincere---that there is a real desire to learn, and that they understand that it's not so simple as to hold your mouth just right while you add two frog eyes to the mix, resulting in fine gold. They tend to have every reason in the book why they need their question answered, but it has been my experience that when basic questions are answered, all it does is lead to more basic questions. Until a reader understands the theory involved, it doesn't really matter what they are told, none of it makes sense, anyway. 

Armed with my thoughts, above, it is for that reason that I insist everyone read Hoke's book. 

Do I think it's the best book available for refining? Probably not. But what I KNOW is that it will teach the very things one must know and understand in order to make decisions about refining. That's true, even though she did not discuss processing escrap, which was unknown in her time. The theory remains the same, however. 

If you guys don't mind seeing me lean on people like this, I'm fine with it. They need to be sorted, as they become VERY disruptive, as the most recent event showed, once again. 

I'd appreciate hearing from those who feel I should change my tactics. My only real purpose in being here is to try to be helpful, so if I'm doing things that offend the average reader, I need to know that. 

Mean time, I'm really proud of how you guys have been handling these problem readers. You lay it on the line----which is all anyone can ask. The old saying goes "you can lead a horse to water, but---"

If they choose not to drink, maybe it's time they found a new hobby. I can help them do that. 

Harold


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## Harold_V (Apr 27, 2013)

jmdlcar said:


> I say NO cause how can they learn without asking. After I read any thing then some time I forget 1 hours later. My wife said cause I'm getting old. And search alway don't work.
> 
> Jack


This is the very problem we have. They refuse to try to learn on their own, asking for readers to post information that has been posted time and again, and is totally covered in not only the forum, but in Hoke's book. What we want them to do IS read---research---read Hoke's book, and follow the threads that pertain to their interest, so they gain a basic understanding. Once they do, they won't have need to ask what have become stupid questions. I might also add, they should follow the links in lazersteve's sig line. He's gone well out of his way to provide excellent information that is helpful to the new kid on the block. 

What we've been dealing with is individuals who refuse to do anything except ask questions----questions that shouldn't be being asked *because they don't know enough to be asking the question*. If they did, it wouldn't be being asked. Without that basic knowledge, the answer will be meaningless, leading to yet more questions, which will stop only when they arrive at the point to which they have been advised to be-----informed. 

None of us have the time it takes to hand feed each and every person who comes to this board. If they can't show enough initiative to follow commonly dispensed advice, to be perfectly honest with you, I don't want them here. They become exceedingly disruptive and combative, demanding they be told everything instead of applying themselves to learning. I will make it perfectly clear in this case. If anyone comes to this forum and demands such treatment, and they can't be banned, I will be the first to resign my position as moderator. At that point, it will have become clear to me that I am truly wasting my time. I will have no part of a forum where readers are free to make demands that are not reasonable. 

Harold


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## solar_plasma (Apr 27, 2013)

Until now, I have not seen any case on this forum, when somebody asked, not got the right answers. And also no answer can be a good answer. I like the moderator's clear rhetoric and the responsible and authoritative (see below) leading style. I don't see the necessarity to change anything.



> Authoritative parenting (*source: wikipedia*)
> 
> The parent is demanding and responsive. When this style is systematically developed, it grows to fit the descriptions propagative parenting and concerted cultivation.
> 
> ...


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## kurt (Apr 27, 2013)

Harold – it is my personal opinion that the job you do in policing the forum is nothing short of great --- it’s a nasty job – but a job that needs doing none the less in order to keep a forum such as this on its intended course.

In the 2 years that I have been a member on this forum I have watched you ban members on occasion - but never have I seen you do it without that member being given fair warning & ample opportunity to straighten up & fly right - & most always (if not always) your banning someone has not been on your warning alone – but has rather come on the heals of multiple warnings from others of the more prominent members of this forum 

Some may think you are to harsh because the forum is open as a free “to” all --- but that doesn’t make it a “free for all” --- Thanks for the job you do!!!

As far as locking new members out from posting for 30 days I don’t think it would solve anything because it often takes asking a few stupid question to get pointed in the right direction --- the out come for the individual asking the stupid question is in how they respond to the answers they get pointing them in the right direction --- they ether have the wisdom to follow the direction – or it goes over there head & they give up – or they hit a brick wall because no one will any longer waste their time trying to help them.

Kurt


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## Geo (Apr 27, 2013)

CBentre said:


> I say No but im in favour of a paid membership



there was a fellow Canadian of yours who had the wisdom and foresight to create a forum that was open and free to anyone that wanted to learn refining.he wanted the forum to always be available to everyone with an interest in refining.you should check out some of the back history of the GRF and why it will never be a paysite.

Harold, you have my utmost respect and i feel i can speak for a great many here when i say that this forum would not be the same without you.i do try to read all new post daily but when i see your name,thats the ones i go to first.i will always consider you to be a mentor and hope you continue contributing to the forum and helping its members for as long as you see fit.


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 27, 2013)

Harold_V said:


> If you guys don't mind seeing me lean on people like this, I'm fine with it.


There is no sense in creating rules unless there is someone to enforce them. The rules here are few and serve this forum well. I'm fine with it as well.

The only thing that saddens me is that Harold has to spend what little time he is able to devote to this forum acting as the enforcer rather than providing the advice we have all benefited from.

Dave


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## Dan Dement (Apr 27, 2013)

As a relatively New guy who has been on the receiving end of some Newbie Fire, I must say "Don't change a thing"! Spammers & Idiots are not tolerated and that is how it should be. Few people can put you in your place like Harold and I have had the pleasure of receiving a Dress down and survived and hopefully accepted as part of the group. GRF is a daily pleasure and some of us have different area's of expertise related to Refining but are not actual Refiners. I gladly contribute as the enjoyment of the forum is priceless.

Leave it alone,

Dan


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## CBentre (Apr 27, 2013)

Geo said:


> CBentre said:
> 
> 
> > I say No but im in favour of a paid membership
> ...



I am grateful Noxx has created the forum so please do not misinterpret my intent. It was more towards protecting the safty or well being of others. There is a very fine line in this type of work where pleasure becomes dangerous. There are many people I've come across lately who think this stuff is a walk in the park and don't realize what they are playing with. The last 5 all said the same thing "all the info is on net". That's fine and dandy but two of the five never graduated high school and based on their vocabulary I wasn't 100% sure they could even read a book. This is where im most concerned becasue everthing is so freely available these kids are being armed with information that they may or may not interperate the right way and it could lead to deadly consequences. 
Harold great job, it may seem like its never ending but you may have done a lot more then you realize by simply banning someone who has the potential to be a danger to themselves. This should not get overlooked, you are doing us all a great service. Thank you


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## Smack (Apr 27, 2013)

The way your doing it is fine with me Harold. It's obviously not broken so no fixing required.


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## resabed01 (Apr 27, 2013)

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I can't view or read post without being logged in? This is why I'm confused when I see a new member with <2 post count and a join date of less than a day posting and saying they've done the searches and read Hoke when they ask a basic question they obviously didn't research. It's like they are framing their question with the Hoke been read disclaimer so they don't get flamed or turned away and told to search.

We all should be reminded that posting here is a privilege, one that could be earned for new member isn't such a bad thing. It would give the new member time to do their searches, investigate their interest paths and prepare their questions for when they do earn their privilege to post. It's not censorship, it's a right of passage, so to speak.

For those that seen a YouTube video and had their interest tweaked so they sign up to ask how to turn old computers into gold bars will quickly find there is no "recipe" and their fast answers won't be found here, unless of course they put the effort in to look for them.
So, those that don't have the patience to wait the lockout period will move on.

For those that are serious and have a genuine interest in recovery/refining will stick around and be a asset to the community.

I'm a member on many forums, one very high volume board in particular has such a policy. Some of the new members complain but they quickly get over it. It's quite effective in reducing spam posts. Also, it lets the new members know what a privilege it is to be a member and they are less apt to abuse that privilege knowing they would be locked out for another period should they be banned. The sense of entitlement to the board is mostly curbed and it's well respected as a valuable resource. 

The Mods here do an outstanding job with the board. Sometimes I see the mods go to great lengths to correctly detail a procedure to ensure the new member does things correctly and safely. That's good.

But then there are times I wonder if the new member is playing around and yanking the boards chain just for their jollies. That's bad.



I vote yes,


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 27, 2013)

resabed01 said:


> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I can't view or read post without being logged in? This is why I'm confused when I see a new member with <2 post count and a join date of less than a day posting and saying they've done the searches and read Hoke when they ask a basic question they obviously didn't research. It's like they are framing their question with the Hoke been read disclaimer so they don't get flamed or turned away and told to search.


Actually, it is possible to read on the forum without being logged in.

If you do a Google search (or other search engine of your choice) and you find a link to a page on the forum, you can click on the link and read the linked page without being logged in.

I'm not totally against restricting certain members' ability to post. I even proposed that members be required to pass a simple test before they are granted permission to post in the Starting to get irritated with newbs thread. But it appears the Moderators do have the ability to restrict a member's ability to post while still allowing them to read as Harold just did with Ingotmaker in the Complete Noob thread:


Harold_V said:


> He will simply have to be content to read, for he is no longer able to post.


Perhaps this is the best solution for those who don't accept the advice they are given to study.

Dave


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