# Making a Ring



## haveagojoe (Aug 2, 2014)

Hi everyone, I am new to the forum but have been reading and collecting e-scrap for a while now, my aim is to produce around 6 grams of gold which should be enough to make a ring. 

I was wondering if any of you forum members had attempted forging a ring with gold you have recovered? I would love to hear about your experiences, even see some photos maybe? 

I have looked into the various processes for recovering gold but i am starting to think that as gold for jewelery is not usually very high purity, perhaps it would be appropriate to recover foils from boards and pins using copper chloride and simply melt them into a blob and cast it directly into a ring mould? some slag would come off as in cuppelation, and It would certainly be a much quicker process and the impure metal would be more durable than soft 999 gold. Maybe I would need to use Borax to bring the melting temp down... 

Any thoughts?


----------



## solar_plasma (Aug 2, 2014)

I find this is a very interesting subject, too, since had the same idea, making rings of refined gold.

Though I have only read and no practical knowledge, I believe, I can answer some of your questions in a valid way. Some impurities can make it impossible to get a good jewelry alloy, for example small amounts of lead will make it brittle. My first gold button, before I joined, was yellow, black and silver, very ugly. So, using gold from an impure source will make refining necessary. The next problem occurs when trying to make the new alloy, get a good and homogeneous solution of the metals with each other. Until now I can only guess, that temperature and the right fluxes are the key to achieve this.

I have seen nice youtube videos about casting gold rings in sand. Try a search.

If you find good forum links about making jewelry alloys, let me know.


----------



## haveagojoe (Aug 2, 2014)

thank you solar_plasma, thats useful info... glad this raises interest, to be honest im surprised there are not already threads on this subject as it seems like a logical next step after recovering your gold.

so you think it would be better to try to produce high purity gold and then create a specific alloy from there? perhaps you are right...

i found this page which gives some lists of different jewellery alloys:
http://www.keytometals.com/page.aspx?ID=CheckArticle&site=ktn&NM=230

The obvious easy choice would be 18k red gold at 75% gold and 25% copper, don't you think? although 22kt yellow gold would be neat. i have also heard that pre-mixed alloying compounds are available

from the last table it would appear that the final stage in the production of the ring has a great effect on its strength- suggesting that simply casting and annealing the metal would produces a ring which is far less strong than if it had been worked (rolled, hammered etc)

as you point out, it would be important to create an even, homogenous alloy, but if i start with high purity gold, and melt it at a high enough temperature i think this should not be a major problem. 

thanks again for your input - the ring has to be good or she might not marry me! :lol:


----------



## Geo (Aug 2, 2014)

You may not want to use just refined gold to make a ring. The metal would be so soft it would bend when you close your hand. So you would want to make a karat gold by adding a base metal. You would have to decide what color gold you want your ring to be. There's several different colors you can make like rose gold,green gold, yellow gold,white gold and a few others. Six grams of pure gold will make almost 14.5 grams of 10K.


----------



## Harold_V (Aug 2, 2014)

haveagojoe said:


> I was wondering if any of you forum members had attempted forging a ring with gold you have recovered?


The vast majority of the gold I recovered was used for making jewelry, considering my customers were jewelers. 



> I would love to hear about your experiences, even see some photos maybe?


I made one ring myself, a $2½ US gold piece, which was made of 18K gold. Unfortunately, I was burglarized several years ago, and it was amongst the casualties, so I don't have it to photograph. 



> I have looked into the various processes for recovering gold but i am starting to think that as gold for jewelery is not usually very high purity


Sorry, but I don't agree. However, you are most likely confusing alloying with desirable elements with contamination with undesirable elements. It's not the same thing, and there's a huge price to pay for having the wrong elements present, typically manifesting itself as gold that is no longer ductile. 



> perhaps it would be appropriate to recover foils from boards and pins using copper chloride and simply melt them into a blob and cast it directly into a ring mould?


Not in my opinion, although you could achieve some degree of success by that method. That's assuming you didn't have to do any type of work in which the gold was reformed after it was cast. That would include setting diamonds or other stones. What you proposed here allows for lead to be included, which is death on gold quality. Even traces render gold brittle. 



> some slag would come off as in cuppelation, and It would certainly be a much quicker process and the impure metal would be more durable than soft 999 gold.


You are now thinking in the right direction, although still misguided. Gold is alloyed with silver, copper, and zinc, all to help keep color balance, to extend the amount of gold required, and to maintain malleability. If you combine other elements, or if any of them are oxidized, the end result can be brittle gold, or gold with inclusions that can't be removed when finishing the ring. The last item mentioned, inclusions, are the chief reason why most jewelers won't reuse old gold, although some do. Gold can be melted a limited number of times before it has oxidized beyond a pont of being useful. When that happens, the inclusions I spoke of become troublesome, manifesting themselves as tiny irregular dots in the casting that won't accept a polish. As the ring is buffed, they become more and more pronounced. Melting recovered foils would offer an unreasonable opportunity for this very thing to happen. My money says don't do it, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. 



> Maybe I would need to use Borax to bring the melting temp down...


You'd be far better served to spend some time trying to learn a little about what you'd like to accomplish, as adding borax in NO WAY will bring the melting temp down. That's total nonsense. I will suggest that it does help in cleaning up the gold, absorbing some of the oxides, but borax, in and of itself, will not significantly improve the overall quality. Refining will. If that was not the case, there would be little reason to refine gold for reuse. 



> Any thoughts?



Oh, yeah, and based on years of experience. You've seen them expressed, above. 

Harold


----------



## haveagojoe (Aug 3, 2014)

Harold and Geo, thank you for clearing up some of the gaps in my understanding. I can see now that the only way to do the job properly would be to refine the gold to high purity and then use it to make karat gold. I am still collecting e-scrap, so I will have time to study and learn more before attempting the process. 

The other decision I must make is whether to cast the ring, or to work it from a hot lump of metal. i am attracted towards the latter, partly because it may be difficult for me to locate a centrifuge for casting, and partly because i have read that worked metals have greater strength and hardness than cast ones. any opinions on this? below are videos showing both methods

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmR8-zjBsik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCNZYDJLkWo


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Aug 3, 2014)

haveagojoe said:


> The other decision I must make is whether to cast the ring, or to work it from a hot lump of metal. i am attracted towards the latter, partly because it may be difficult for me to locate a centrifuge for casting, and partly because i have read that worked metals have greater strength and hardness than cast ones. any opinions on this?


If you're just making one ring, you could make a rough casting in sand. It won't have the nice finish of a casting made in investment, but you would at least have something shaped like a ring to start with.

Gold alloys do work harden, but you can just as easily harden a simple casting by hammering the rough casting.

Dave


----------



## solar_plasma (Aug 3, 2014)

Some gold smiths offer, that one can come to their shop and make his own ring by himself with the help and guiding of the smith. That will not be cheap, but you can make itself from your own gold and the end product will be of a better quality, than you can expect from your first try alone at home.


----------



## haveagojoe (Aug 3, 2014)

thanks Dave, yes i have been looking into rough casting also. apparently it is possible to cast quite adequately in a mold made from cuttlefish bone as was done in Roman times. i love this idea! even easier than the lost wax method and the materials and equipment required are minimal. This video shows it nicely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V6hiF2LB5s

thanks solar-plasma, yes i have heard it is possible to make a ring at a goldsmith's workshop with their guidance, but that's not really for me, mostly because of the expense. the main appeal of the project to me is that almost all the investment will be in the form of my own time and work. however, it would be great to sit and watch a goldsmith at work, if they would allow it


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Aug 3, 2014)

haveagojoe said:


> thanks Dave, yes i have been looking into rough casting also. apparently it is possible to cast quite adequately in a mold made from cuttlefish bone as was done in Roman times. i love this idea! even easier than the lost wax method and the materials and equipment required are minimal. This video shows it nicely:


Cuttlefish bone will work too. Again, it will be a rough casting, so be sure it is heavier than the finished piece to allow for filing and sanding to the final shape and size. Be sure to cut some vent channels to allow air to escape. Since you're just relying on gravity to fill the mold, good venting is very important.

I would never remelt jewelry as he did, especially pieces that have been soldered like that chain, but you've already learned that.

Good luck,
Dave


----------



## MysticColby (Aug 4, 2014)

When you cast a ring, you need a sprue. that sprue needs to be as thick as the ring, preferably thicker. this is primarily because the metal will contract as it cools, so you want metal that is still liquid to be able to fill the gap. what I'm trying to get at: I'm not sure 6g will be enough. yes, you can make 14.5g of 10K out of it, but that's only about 1.3 ml - maybe twice the volume of your ring (depending on your style).
I found this picture for one way to make a ring:


just imagine only having the top ring. the ring would only account for maybe 20% of the volume.
It's best to fill molds from the side as there is less turbulence.
I would say 18K is probably the highest karat you want to use. higher than that and it's likely too malleable. malleable is fine for a thick pendant, but not so good for a ring that would be worn.


----------



## jonn (Aug 4, 2014)

If you just want to make one ring,i would suggest the following. Alloy your gold to the proper karat and melt into a ball. Roll or flatten your ball to about 1"round. Droll a hole through the middle creating a washer. Put your washer on a tapered mandrel and roll it over forming a ring. You could add details to the top of the ring while it's on the mandrel. Use small punches with any detail you want to produce the desired design. Post pictures on the forum. Good luck.


----------



## haveagojoe (Aug 4, 2014)

thanks MysticColby that's a valid point which i hadn't really considered. i can imagine that a simple drop cast would require quite a large funnel for the metal to be poured into in order to avoid choking. I have no idea how much extra material i would need to account for the sprue but i would guess that a little more than double the volume of the ring ought to be sufficient? This aspect also seems to point towards a cuttlefish bone cast, as the funnel and sprue length can be made comparatively short. either way i think i'll have to collect some extra gold just to be sure  

john I like your idea too; while some of the metal will be 'lost' when drilling through the flattened lump, the amount may be proportionally less than can be achieved with a cast. There are some interesting videos demonstrating how to make a ring from a silver coin using a similar method to the one you have described.... 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=548qCuDHe_Q

and well, since nobody has posted any photos yet i thought i might post just one, maybe get the ball rolling... its not my own but its a lovely example of an 18karat cuttlefish bone cast and an inspiration for me:

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Beached-2-155344385


----------



## jonn (Aug 4, 2014)

You shouldn't lose much, just drill over a crucible and catch the shavings. Personally i would use a punch press. But drilling would work. You might be able to find some round mortising chisels online.


----------



## solar_plasma (Aug 4, 2014)

Another option:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ring+coin

since a gold button pretty much has the shape of a coin, this method should be easy to adapt.


----------



## Dan Dement (Aug 7, 2014)

Guys,

WE make custom jewelry for a living. WE make NICE custom jewelry for a living. First, You got to decide what you want to have made. Second. WE always start with fresh 24kt gold and not some leftover metals as the gold remelts fine but not so for all the alloys. Figure out what you want to make and start with fresh 24kt gold if you want yellow. If you want white, go with Palladium or Platinum. We make the design in CAD, grow the model on a Rapid Protoyping machine, direct cast the resin, and finish and set the stones. Normal time is 7 working days from when you have the model approved.

Using old metal usually comes out with a inferior casting which makes for a poor quality ring. When you get the metal refined for under 2%, why take the chance?

Dan


----------



## haveagojoe (Aug 8, 2014)

Hi Dan, useful stuff, thank you! I hadn't thought of using CAD, and the current rise of 3D printing could make this kind of thing much more straightforward. However in this case the ring will be just a simple band, no stones (she's not that kinda girl -phew!). I am really drawn towards a cuttlefish bone cast for its simplicity and artisan quality, and the interesting patterns it makes. Also it means that I can take a direct impression from an existing ring without needing to play about with wax etc. 

I take on board what you are saying about the purity of the metal. I haven't even started processing my electronic scrap yet but I intend to refine it to high purity before smelting into an alloy. My girl has decided she would prefer white gold, so as you suggest I will go for platinum or palladium, and with a little silver to make 18karat. I have heard that it is also possible to recover these from electronic scrap and refine using acids, but I think I will most likely simply buy a small piece, since i will only need a couple of grams. I'm sure I had an old palladium ring somewhere but haven't found it yet :roll:

I read the smelting palladium ought to be done with an indirect heat from a hydrogen-oxygen flame, otherwise the metal can get blown away by its force, or pick up carbon impurites from the burn. And apparently that type of torch is the only thing which will get hot enough. Any advice on smelting at high temperatures like that?


I also heard that placing a tiny strip of zinc across the funnel opening of the mould can improve the flow of hot metal when drop casting gold- the zinc melts immediately into the alloy but at the same time stops it from splashing up off the bottom of the mould.

Would love to see your stuff Dan!


----------



## kdaddy (Aug 9, 2014)

I made rings for my wife and I with just a torch and hammer. The gold will work harden so you have to anneal it as you go. Mine is a 12+ gram and the wife's is 4+. I prefer the minimalist look so mine is just a rectangular bar shaped into a ring, her's is a hammered finish. The work hardening seems to be fairly durable, its nowhere near as soft as annealed. I have made all kinds of stuff with silver as well. A hammer, couple of files,...

K


----------



## haveagojoe (Aug 9, 2014)

awww c'mon kdaddy we've got to see pictures of those! proper hand made. are you saying that fine gold without alloying seems to be durable enough, after work hardening? or did you start with karat gold?


----------



## kdaddy (Aug 10, 2014)

I used gold that I recovered and refined twice. The photo's just don't catch the true color. I made these a few years back and there doesn't seem to be a lot of wear. In my opinion, work hardening is fine unless you plan to wear the item while laying brick or turning wrenches etc...


----------



## Dan Dement (Aug 10, 2014)

Like I said, we do it for a living. My customers expect high quality work. Too many things can & will go wrong so I just wish you the best and hope the results make her happy. Understand that Palladium melts at 1600C and you need to do it in a vacuum or it's going to be very brittle. Stick to Platinum as it like O2

God liuck to you!

Dan


----------



## haveagojoe (Aug 10, 2014)

yayyyyy! thanks kdaddy that's what i'm talking about! they are lovely  
Very reassuring to hear from first hand experience that pure gold can be used in that way. Definately got to consider doing it this way, since there can't be anything quite as cool as 24kt fine gold 
It was also useful to know the weights too so I can visualise what I might make. great contriubution


----------



## haveagojoe (Aug 10, 2014)

Thank you Dan, more useful stuff  After some more reading I am discovering, as i think you might also be suggesting, that working with platinum group metals is a bit of a different ball game to gold, partly due to the higher temperatures and partly due to some different behaviours of the metals in the casting process. Perhaps I should walk before i run huh? :lol: 


i have to say, this has been a really fun thread, thanks everyone for your sharing your knowledge and experience


----------



## kdaddy (Aug 11, 2014)

You can buy cast and polished karat gold anywhere, even the grocery store. The wife has an obscene amount of jewelry but this is her favorite ring. Hand make a ring for her and the panties evaporate....


----------

