# silver



## richardbal (Jan 28, 2012)

Hello 
need your help???
i have a CUSO4 electrolyte 1 Liter put into the solution one silver plated spoon conected to the(plus + wire) and a inox sheet conected to(minus - wire ).i run the electrolyse with 5V/10A.
questions??? 
1-on the inox is a white gas bubels?? what is that? is that SO2????
2-on the inox is a dark braun color sludge??? what is that? Ag or Cu?

after 20 minuts the silver is going up from the spoon in many pieces isnt disolved into the solution.the spoon is now red is look like copper.
i filter the silver ,wash it in water many time diluet some hno3 in des water and put the silver inside ,and heated but no way to dissolve the silver.
what is wrong!!!!
can i melt the silver direct?
what is the problem why the silver didnt dissolve in HNO3????
thanks for any help
richard


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## rusty (Jan 28, 2012)

It's possible your silver plated flatware was over plated with rhodium.


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## richardbal (Jan 28, 2012)

hi rusty
no i dont think that ,many time i get the silver outand was all normal
but this time i try to do it in another way ???and isnt work
richard


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## butcher (Jan 28, 2012)

richardbal, 

I am having some trouble understanding your problem, as we do not seem to speak same language.

I have tried something similar to what you are doing, I found the silver would plate out with the copper on the cathode (negative pole), it would just make a brown red fluffy plate and fall to bottom of the jar, as copper and silver powder, I also found I had to dissolve the whole anode spoon or piece (positive pole).

This works great to break down the metals to powders, but in my opinion will not separate the copper from the silver. and after experimenting with trying to reclaim the silver, I found I had learned a whole lot, spent a tremendous amount of time, spent more money than the silver is worth, went to a heck of a lot of work to get the silver back, and had fun, and I think I can say this is not the way to get silver.

In solution the copper sulfate would split copper (Cu+) move's to cathode (negative) and gets an electron to become metal powders. The sulfate (S04-) moves to anode (positive) and gives up its extra electron, and copper in the spoon dissolves with this to make more copper sulfate in solution.

I do not think you have pure silver, I believe you have copper and silver, and these can be mixed as sulfates, which may not melt unless converted to metals or the sulfates removed. (iron in melt of washed powders and flux may help), or convert these powders to chlorides making a soluble copper chloride and insoluble silver chloride, convert silver chloride to silver metals before melting.

As I said the silver plate is very thin, and you can spend dollars trying to make pennies, it is very difficult to get silver off of plated scrap (safely) and would be very hard to justify doing it.

Hydrogen (H+) can be gas at cathode (negative pole), and Oxygen can be gas at anode (positive pole).


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## richardbal (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi Butcher
thanks for your answer,sorry my english isnt that good.i am from germany and with the time my english is verry bad???
so let me explain you just a bit more.
in the solution is the silver in kind of smal pieces ,you can see it well.i try to disolve it in Hno3 with heat is no way to get the silver dissolve??
that is my problem!!!
i ask you agin what can be wrong why the silver didnt dissolve into the Hno3.all another problems are not so difficult to find the solution
or with heat and borax or redesolve the silver agin after metlting
thanks you a lot
i have read many time in forum u are kind of expert in this area
thank you
richard


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## richardbal (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi Butcher
thanks for your answer
but the silver not plate out on the cathode,is plate out when u chake the spoon is like explosive all silver go up from the spoonand fall down to the ground.
on the cathode is just a braun sludge verry fine .
is no silver on the cathode,the silver fall to the bottom under the anode ,and i am sure is no copper on it,i can see it under the microscope.
is no powder is just still in pieces verry thin.tomorow i will send you all pictures if you like?no need to dissolve the spoon or the cathode because you have just base metal the silver is deplated and you can get it out just with filter. just for your information i get always from 1 kg spoon fork and kniefes about 40 to 60 gr silver to 90% purety
is that not enough??

so the after filtering and washing the silver .i try to dissolved in Hno3 and des water.i heat and add hno3 but no way the silver stay as smal flacks.
that si the big problem what is the solution .did u think if i try to dissolved in a sulfuric acide concentrated at 95% will dissolve??that what i will try to do tomorow and will let you know the rsult
thanks


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## philddreamer (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi Richard!

If the silver falls off the anode, placing the flatware in a bag will catch the silver flakes. Then rinse properly & melt it. You could then save it, sell it, or run thru a silver nitrate cell for higher purity.

Now, have you tried incinerating the silver powder before trying to digest in 50/50 nitric?

Are you also aware that no "cartridge type" respirator will filter out nitric fumes? You need a fume hood if you are doing this inside, or you must do the process outside. Please be careful!

Take care & be safe!

Phil


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## richardbal (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi Phil
that is exactly what i will gona do tomorow,filter the silver flaks and wash it many time in hot water and melt it .
no Fil i didnt tried incinerating the silver powder before trying to digest in 50/50 nitric !! can u advice me more what will help if i do??what will change?? you know my question is why the Hno3 didnt disolve the silver flaks is strange no?????
dont worry i do that for some time now i have all stuf to be save and the fumes hud is working fine.is no danger because is a verry small test is just some gramm of silver and not more.
thanks for your advice to be carefull yes we must what we deal with is dangerous what will help tonnes of silver if we are sick later
richard


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## philddreamer (Jan 29, 2012)

Richard, it is possible that something is "coating" the silver & prevents the nitric from attacking it. An example, if silver gets oxides or chloride on its surface the nitric can't attack it, that's why it is recommended to incinerate when switching from one chemical to another. To "incinerate" we mean to apply heat until dull red.
I'm not a chemist, so forgive me for not been able to explain better.

I'm glad you have taken the safety steps.

Phil


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## butcher (Jan 29, 2012)

I still believe you will find copper mixed with silver, you could also be getting silver sulfates (or copper sulfates), I do not know if nitric would dissolve these.

If it was silver, nitric would dissolve it.

Also if it formed silver sulfates you may not be able to just melt. (Without a chemical flux conversion in the melt).
If you’re silver is not leaving the anode (I would suspect silver sulfate, more than if it did leave the anode and plate to cathode, where it is more likely converted back to silver metal. (although it can be silver plate that did not react with acid and electrical current also), (I just do not know here),(if trying to melt, I would try some Iron metal filings, a little crushed glass, borax, sodium carbonate, and charcoal cover), (make two small test melts one with this flux one without), (see if that makes a difference in what you get).

You can also see if you smell sulfur when you try to melt without flux.

Silver chloride as Phil Dreamer, say's is also posssible if any chloride was involved. (salts , water ??).


Can you give more details of your cell, voltage current, electrolyte, additives, temperature, your results with copper sulfate seem different that what I noticed in the cells I ran, how many pounds of material have you run in this cell, or have you just started? 

I am no expert in any kind of area, I do like to learn, but I am just like you learning. we just learn from each other.

By the way I can barely speak English and it is my only language, I think you guys who speak another language and English also have a bigger brain (more brain cells), your English is very good, but sometimes it is hard for me to tell what the English man say's, and a little harder if your English is not real great, I get lost easy with words, (but I have never been lost in the woods).


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## philddreamer (Jan 29, 2012)

"I get lost easy with words, (but I have never been lost in the woods)."

:lol: :lol: :lol: I like that one, Butcher! 8) 

Phil


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## richardbal (Jan 30, 2012)

Hi Phil
you are rigth,the silver didnt dissolve into HNO§ because is a silver sulfate
thanks for your help and you show me the right way to not be lost more then butcher.heheheheh
well nice to have this forum and you guys .you are always a big help.
and just for information i speak 4 languages and sometime
isnt easy to have the control on all words
thanks you agin


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