# Invest in silver



## ronii (Apr 10, 2013)

I am confused to thinking that is silver good option for invest? Is it profitable business? I want to invest in silver about feel fear and hesitation to invest in it. Would any one like to suggest me some tips about it? I shall great thankful to you.


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## squarecoinman (Apr 11, 2013)

ronii said:


> I am confused to thinking that is silver good option for invest? Is it profitable business? I want to invest in silver about feel fear and hesitation to invest in it. Would any one like to suggest me some tips about it? I shall great thankful to you.



Dear Ronii, with all investment you will take a risq , no matter if it is silver or gold , stocks. If you want a fast profit silver is not the way to go. if you however have some money and you do not need it, and can wait for maybe a long time then you should consider it.

Since you feel fear and hesitation and ask if it is a good business I would say that you should not invest in silver. 
Silver can be a profital business and is for many people, but they know what they are doing.

If you question would have been " do you think the silver price will go up in the next 30 years" , the answer would be Yes. But since it is not clear if you want to invest for a week or a few months I would say do not invest .

or give some more information, is it for your pension , what is you time span ? 

kind regards 

scm


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## butcher (Apr 11, 2013)

I cannot tell you how to spend or save your metal,or your money, but I will tell you how I think about this.

Here in the United states we use coins for money, one of them is a quarter, or one quarter of a dollar, 25 cents, I remember being able buy a pack of cigarettes for a quarter, or a gallon of gas for a quarter, one of these quarter coins (and most of those coins did not contain silver), today gas is about 4 dollars, cigarettes similar, or about 16 of these same quarters, the gas did not go up in price, the cigarettes did not go up in price.

In 1935 to 1965 they made these quarters out of 90% silver and 10% copper, and they were worth one quarter of a dollar then, so when you bought bread you could get so much bread for a quarter, today you can buy that same amount of bread (with one of them silver quarters made of 6.5 grams of 90% silver) or about 6.25g x.90=5.62 grams of pure silver at today's spot price $27.50/31.103 grams per ounce =$0.88per gram, so the bread today would cost $.88 x 5.62grams of silver = $4.94
the bread did not go up in price, the silver did not go up in price, the same amount of silver buys the same amount of bread it did 80 years ago.

So if the bread or the silver did not change value what did?

The value of our money today to buy bread, and our money is worth less as time goes on.
so I say if you have silver, you should be able to buy bread later, when our dollar loses even more value in the future.

Sure it looks like silver cost a lot of money today compared to years back, and it does, looks like bread also cost us so much more, because our money is loosing value, and my opinion is we are heading for a very hard in the future, so I believe if you can spare a few dollars today to buy silver you will be able to eat bread in hard times later.

Several years back I bought silver rounds for $2.30 today they are worth 27.50 were else could I have made that kind of profit? surely not by gambling with my money and losing it it in the stock market, surely not in any bank, and years from now when I am old, I will be able to buy bread with these silver rounds and have enough to eat when our dollar bill has lost even more of its value.

I will not tell you to invest in silver or gold, but for me I believe it to be a wise investment if I wish to eat later.


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## Dawg (Apr 11, 2013)

I'am with you Butcher. One thing I considered before doing any refining was how much I can afford to lose. I've never really made a profit considering the expense of material ect. I didn't start doing this to make a profit. Each pay period I have a set amount to be spent on silver at what ever the price and I stack it in my safe at home. Been doing this for about 2 years now. I also refine once I get a stock built up which usually takes between 6-8 months, I then take it to a refinery and exchange it for Bullion ( 40% Gold/60% Silver) yes I take a loss at current prices and refiner cut . I dont think of it as such (I'm not a good bussiness man) I would rather have my paper money invested in hard metal than in a paper dream world I have no physical control. I keep minimal currency in the bank and stopped investing in the market, I just dont trust the people in office. This may sound extreme but I would rather have hard metals than paper any day.
Just my 2 cents worth 

Roger


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## squarecoinman (Apr 11, 2013)

Dawg and Butcher 

I have silver at home and gold and i do not trust paper money / banks / stocks so i do not disagree with the 2 of you 
in fact i agree very much. 

However I was trying to answer ronii question ( should i invest in silver ? ) 
and Ronni first post was "I am gold trader and have much knowledge and experience about gold. I like to learn every thing that's why I have join this forum"

his second post was "Hello to all we provides best business coaching services for free. If any one want to get free service where he can get all information and tactics and strategies then just join our community."

now my thinking is If you are a business coach and a gold trader with much knowledge and experience , but you wonder about silver investment and feel fear then maybe the best thing to do is to stay away from silver and first gather a lot of knowledge about silver as a investment.

for people that are not gold traders and business coaches my answer would have been differend more like the answer from Butcher

scm


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## Palladium (Apr 11, 2013)

I don't know about the investment side, but i do know when questions don't add up to make sense. Something don't seem right!


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## MMFJ (Apr 11, 2013)

butcher said:


> buy a pack of cigarettes for a quarter, or a gallon of gas for a quarter, one of these quarter coins (and most of those coins did not contain silver), today gas is about 4 dollars, cigarettes similar, or about 16 of these same quarters, the gas did not go up in price, the cigarettes did not go up in price.
> today you can buy that same amount of bread (with one of them silver quarters made of 6.5 grams of 90% silver) or about 6.25g x.90=5.62 grams of pure silver at today's spot price $27.50/31.103 grams per ounce =$0.88per gram, so the bread today would cost $.88 x 5.62grams of silver = $4.94
> the bread did not go up in price, the silver did not go up in price, the same amount of silver buys the same amount of bread it did 80 years ago.


Great analogies.

Another that I favor is that, no matter what period of time you review, 

1 toz silver = a "gentleman's meal" 
(today it is just as true as ever - a ~$30 meal isn't for everyone, but common enough for a 'gentleman') 

1 toz gold will buy an outfit for a king 
(while I don't go around shopping for "kings clothing", but it seems to me that ~$1500 should purchase some pretty nice duds!)

Invest? Depends on how you look a that term. If for 'retaining value', I say YES. If you consider that as "make loads of money in a few minutes", well, you are in the wrong part of town!

And, to directly reply to the original post, 


> is silver good option for invest? Is it profitable business?


These are really two very distinctly different things (IMHO). Investing is a long-term strategy while 'business' (and certainly a 'profitable' one) is what you do on a day-to-day focus, whereby you must buy for a low enough price that you can add your costs of business (including a vast number of things like transport, time, knowledge, etc.) and still sell for an additional amount (which is the 'profit' part).

Can you do that with silver and gold? Sure. It is easy? Well, if it were, then you would see people doing nothing else......


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## mikeinkaty (Apr 11, 2013)

I have 4 kids with families and they are at mid life and are all struggling to keep ahead of the wolf. I don't know what the future holds but since I have the resources I decided to stock up on bullion not for just my protection but for theirs too. Me and the wife struggled too at mid life and if the economy had collapsed then we would have gone down with it. I don't want my kids or grandkids to ever not have enough to eat (like my parents and grandparents at times) so I decided to dedicate 10% of my resources to hard currency. 

Buying bullion is boring but refining it yourself is fun! Refining it yourself is a litle more expensive but hey, I don't care for golf.

My purchase of bullion is more of an insurance thing than an investment. One rarely makes a profit on insurance.

Mike


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## ilikesilver (Apr 12, 2013)

Here is my thinking... back when the stock market crashed around 2006 my wife and I lost almost 30G in stocks, our nest egg for retirement. I was laid off from Bosch, a 480 billion dollar world wide company. Being in my mid 40s, enough said there, have had a very hard time finding a good job that paid like bosch did and had the benefits. Currently still looking, but am working. No descent health insurance, no dental insurance, and my nest egg is pretty much shot. Luckily i have been a coin collector sense i was 10 years old. I can remember the days getting silver in change at the local store. when i was 13 had my first job working counting bottles at the local 5 & dime. It was nothing to get a roll of silver or two a week, even red notes and blue notes in currency, silver certificates stuff like that. I currently have emassed quite a coin collection through trading and buying over the years. That is my nest egg now.
The US doesnt have the economy it use to. The jobs were you could go to work for and they would train you are gone. IBM doesnt hire full time anymore, they are all 6 month contracts temp basis. Whens the last time you heard anything about digital, or GE? All the jobs are oversea's now adays. 
So weather you decide that in your local economy is it worth investing in silver, or gold, or platinum or whatever. There is a lot to consider.

By low, stock pile it, then sell high down the road. Look at the trends at what the metals have been doing in the last 5 years. I prefer silver, because you still can buy it cheap, then in my case refine it for a higher profit later. Depending on how you decide to do it, its still gonna take some time to work out whatever process you decide, bullion, or scrap. good luck.


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## butcher (Apr 13, 2013)

ronii 
Has been banned, he had spam in his signiture line, was trying to sell silver to the members (he may or may not have had), his signiture line stated he is in new york, his IP says he is typing these posts from pakistan, this and another one of or fine members suspected fraud, that was enough for me, he is gone.


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## Gratilla (Apr 13, 2013)

Any member seriously considering speculating (errr, investing) in silver should take a long look at the charts. (Click on the Kitco banner - www.kitco.com - at the bottom of the page.)

The chart shows support at $27/oz; if it breaks through this, silver is going waaay down. *IMO*.

<Previous performance is no indication of future .... etc, etc, etc>


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## butcher (Apr 13, 2013)

Gratilla, 
Actually I hope it does go way down, I will be able to afford more, and I know it will also go way up later, actually I try to get a little bit of silver at any time I have an extra dollar, whether it is up or down, it does not really matter to me, down is better I get a little more silver weight for my paper money, and I know which way my paper money is going and that is down, and I do not see any chart showing my paper has a chance to go back up like the charts for silver show, look at silver for the long term over the years on kitco, ask yourself if you would not have wanted to put a few of those paper dollars you had years ago into silver then.

When silver was $2.30/troy oz. and I had a spare paper dollar I bought some, when silver went up to about $40.00 and I had a spare dollar I bought some (I did not blink at the price) and even though I knew the price would not last long at that price, I know some day when I needed bread the silver would be worth more than I was spending that day.

I do not ride or play the market, buying and selling as an investment, or to make money, for me the investment is for long term just like a retirement plan, or a way to save for bread when hard times come, I have survived hard times in my life, and if I can put a little metal in the ground now while I have food on my table, I know that it can help me to keep food on that table at a later date when it will not be as easy.

I am not a gambling man, but if I was I would say precious metals are a sure bet, they may not be the best bet, but I believe them to be a safe bet, when gambling you can make a gamble and some things you gamble on can make you a lot of money, but those same things can lose you a lot of money, with silver I feel it may not rise and fall that fast and it will of course do both, but over all it has just been a steady rise (especially if you are comparing it to our dollar bills). so for me I feel it is a safe bet that I will be able to trade my silver for bread, when my dollar bill will not buy me a crumb of bread to make a watered down soup with.


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## kkmonte (Apr 14, 2013)

butcher said:


> I cannot tell you how to spend or save your metal,or your money, but I will tell you how I think about this.
> 
> Here in the United states we use coins for money, one of them is a quarter, or one quarter of a dollar, 25 cents, I remember being able buy a pack of cigarettes for a quarter, or a gallon of gas for a quarter, one of these quarter coins (and most of those coins did not contain silver), today gas is about 4 dollars, cigarettes similar, or about 16 of these same quarters, the gas did not go up in price, the cigarettes did not go up in price.
> 
> ...



Hmm, while I liked reading this, (and at first I was like, wow, great way of looking at it!) I was thinking that I didn't think something was right. Tell me what you think Butcher.  

According to this site: ( http://commodityhq.com/2012/a-brief-2000-year-history-of-silver-prices/ ) , the price of silver was $0.25/ounce in 1932. So your 1932 quarter that contained 5.6grams of silver, the silver value was only ~4.5 cents. So the bread you were buying, you were buying it with the $.25 cents that it represented, not the 4.5 cents of silver. Right?


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## MMFJ (Apr 14, 2013)

kkmonte said:


> Hmm, while I liked reading this, (and at first I was like, wow, great way of looking at it!) I was thinking that I didn't think something was right. Tell me what you think Butcher.
> 
> According to this site: ( http://commodityhq.com/2012/a-brief-2000-year-history-of-silver-prices/ ) , the price of silver was $0.25/ounce in 1932. So your 1932 quarter that contained 5.6grams of silver, the silver value was only ~4.5 cents. So the bread you were buying, you were buying it with the $.25 cents that it represented, not the 4.5 cents of silver. Right?


I believe you need to look at the value of the 5.6g silver buying the bread, not the 'cents' values. 

Once you translate the value of something into some other form of exchange, it clouds the context. Butcher's story of bread is similar to my 'once of silver buying a meal' story (and it will hold true for any story...) - it doesn't matter the exchange "rate", silver and gold hold their overall value. 

Another story that might help you understand this is that, when I was young, my family was pretty poor (I never knew how poor until I got older, but I always remember how much 'fun' my Mom would make it that we were having beans and cornbread - again....), but we always would look for the silver dimes, quarters, etc. in any sort of change we could get. We often would have little 'carnivals', sometimes in our backyard, sometimes a booth at the fair, etc., where we all worked (oh, don't tell the Child Labor Board....  and collected tons of change. Then, we would go sit at the kitchen table and sort through, looking for the 'missing' ones out of a collection that my father always kept in his closet (I recall seeing it only a few times in my early life as we were not allowed to touch the coins for fear of them losing values - or something - I never was really told that...). Over time, we lost interest in all that sorting, but the collection always was there. Even in the toughest times, my parents wouldn't dip into it - they always seem to find a way to get by without going that far....

A couple years ago, my Mother, who is now 87, gave me that little suitcase of coins, silver certificate bills, etc. when she moved into a nursing home. As I went through it, I was reminded of those times as a child, but then I also looked at the reality side of things - there was a huge bulk of pennies (about $10 face value) and 'worthless' paper (silver certs, $2 bills, some "rare" [my Mom thought...] consecutively numbered $1 bills and one old $50 bill). Counting it all up, there was certainly no 'fortune', but the ~$300 fv silver coins - saved at the same time as most of the bills (she had put the $2 bills and some Susan B. Anthony $1 coins, etc. in over the years) added up to much more than the paper - notwithstanding the possibility of any of them being collectible (which only 2 coins had any 'better than junk' value - wasn't really any reason we couldn't look at them other than 'out of sight, out of mind' I guess, though I wish now we would have made it a bit more common as I would have continued the practice of saving them - and hopefully actually buying a few more over all these years).

I took the bills to a coin shop and they told me to just spend them for fv - not being in 'perfect' condition, that is all they were worth (checked eBay, yep - face value...), yet at today's pricing, even that $50 bill didn't buy much (a nice dinner for my wife and I) - but in the early '60s when it was put away (at a very trying time, with 6 growing kids...), it could have fed us all for a week - or more. Yes, it made me sad to spend it, but the truth is that paper will never buy more than it will today and holding it will only buy less. But, that silver, in the same quantity that would have bought a meal back then, will still buy a similar meal today.

And, one other thing about this - in my situation or as was told on one episode of "Pawn Stars" several years ago - there is something about having that little bit of "wealth" sitting in the closet. You know it is there if you really need it, but for some reason, you just never really "need" it bad enough to sell it. I was in a pretty bad financial situation awhile back and so I went through the collection, sorting and packaging various coins, photographing and documenting everything, getting ready to eBay it all so I could feed my family. However, somewhere in all that, something inside me made me find another way, going out and doing something else to make some money instead of selling my Dad's silver. And, keeping that for a 'worse' time (though I couldn't at the time feel like there would ever be one...). There is something about having a 'rainy day' package of silver in the closet - it seems you are always "wealthy" and walk around with a better attitude about yourself. I've come to believe in what the "Old Man" said on Pawn Stars "You never sell your silver" and, even though I still have all the listings on my computer, I'm very sure I never will. I've passed a few coins on to my sons and a bit is set aside for my grandson where I hope to one day instill those same values.


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## butcher (Apr 14, 2013)

MMFJ,
Great story,

Yes I know what you mean about that little box of silver stored away for hard times, and being able to find another way to get out of the bind you are in at the time, without having to dip into your small treasure, there was a time when I was Homeless, we sold almost everything we had in Texas, after buying an old truck, we loaded with only our most prize possessions and necessity's, left Texas with just over a thousand dollars, and broke down in southern Oregon, l two young kids and a wife to feed, no job, no home and a broken down truck that needed the transmission rebuilt, we did not have much left, but a few treasured possessions left, no home, we broke down very close to where i live now, we had 600 dollars to our name, jobs were impossible to find, all of the lumber mills were closing and everyone one looking for work, being from another state, and no transportation, address, Etcetera, things were tough we had some hand tools, guns and even a couple of silver rounds we could have pawned and gotten a few dollars, to buy a little bread, but these were all we had, we knew if we had to we could have given those up, but also knew we needed them, so we got by finding other ways to survive while still keeping our small treasure, we most spent of our last bit of our paper money getting our truck fixed, lived in the woods and cut and sold fire wood to buy what little bread we could, hunted for a little meat, until I was able to find a few small low paying jobs, it took years to get back on our feet, and things slowly got better over the years, better jobs... we finally got back on our feet and bought 6 acres of land and cleared the woods and put a home on it, today I still have my guns tools and those few silver coins (which today will buy us as much bread as they would have back then, I have also added a little silver to it as I could, I also know that if I need it someday I know where it is buried.

You are right even in desperate times if you have a little silver, you know you can buy bread with it if you have to, but you also know that if you give that up you will be left with nothing after that bread is eaten, so you will find another way if at all possible to get by, also as long as you still have that little bit of silver it can give you more confidence to be able to get through that hard time, knowing you still have at least something to buy bread if you have to, but you also know it will not hurt man to go hungry either, that little treasure can help to keep you from becoming too desperate, a desperate man will not see the few options he has in front of him to be able to overcome a bad situation, when a man is not desperate he can find opportunity even where there does not seem to be any, he can see his options. so in a sense that silver can be your desperate savings, or your opportunity savings, to keep you from getting so desperate in hard times, and give you more opportunity in good or bad times.


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## skippy (Apr 14, 2013)

butcher said:


> MMFJ,
> Great story,



That was a hell of a story from yourself too. I don't want to be maudlin, but it was inspirational.


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## mikeinkaty (Apr 14, 2013)

Gratilla said:


> Any member seriously considering speculating (errr, investing) in silver should take a long look at the charts. (Click on the Kitco banner - http://www.kitco.com - at the bottom of the page.)
> 
> The chart shows support at $27/oz; if it breaks through this, silver is going waaay down. *IMO*.
> 
> <Previous performance is no indication of future .... etc, etc, etc>


Buy it on the way down and on the way back up. It's called dollar-cost-averaging. Mike


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## mikeinkaty (Apr 14, 2013)

My mother-in-laws 20lb stash of silver coins is what got me started with this hobby. Fortunately for us (and for her I guess) she never had to spend those coins. But she had them and now we have them. They are there and that is comforting. Mike


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## ilikesilver (Apr 14, 2013)

Gratilla said:


> Any member seriously considering speculating (errr, investing) in silver should take a long look at the charts. (Click on the Kitco banner - http://www.kitco.com - at the bottom of the page.)
> 
> The chart shows support at $27/oz; if it breaks through this, silver is going waaay down. *IMO*.
> 
> <Previous performance is no indication of future .... etc, etc, etc>



Im still somewhat young, i can wait for it to go back up.


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## Dawg (Apr 14, 2013)

Wow these story's are direct from the heart. I sold off about 300 oz to help my son's family their insurance isnt that great this was about a year or a bit longer ago just got back from Afganistan. But I was glad to have it to help. My son knows my passion for refining kept telling me no Dad there is no need for you to do this we will get thru it, this was when I was out of work. It didnt matter though family is blood and I'm glad I had my stash. I'm back to working and seems I've gotten more back than I' had to cash in I just buy/stack/refine when I can


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## kkmonte (Apr 14, 2013)

MMFJ said:


> kkmonte said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm, while I liked reading this, (and at first I was like, wow, great way of looking at it!) I was thinking that I didn't think something was right. Tell me what you think Butcher.
> ...



I'm not trying to offend anyone, just playing devils advocate. 

Exactly my point. I wasn't alive (and neither were my parents) in 1932, however I'd probably guess that the people using quarters for currency was using it as US currency. Do you think the average person back in 1932 knew how much silver a regular old "quarter" contained? I wouldn't think so. Of course this was during the great depression so that might skew things a bit (not sure in who's favor).

A good friend of mine (who is kind of a conspiracy theorist) always told me the story about the 1 ounce gold coin always able to buy you a really nice suit. Back in the 50's this was true and its mostly true now (of course you could buy a "more expensive suit with multiple 1 ounce coins now, but a $1600 suit is probably pretty decent). But I have a hard time believing that the value of things don't fluctuate. Of course gas and cigarettes goes up and down in price. Gas has increased dramatically due to supply and demand and monopoly control. Bread is on the rise due to new vectors of grain sale, and cigarettes go up because of legislation. What if you compare those items to bricks or eggs? or even black pepper and salt?

While I won't disagree, that the dollar has come down in value considerable, and can have a similar effect. The $5000 you have in the bank now might only be able to buy $4000 worth of goods in 5-10 years, however I have to still believe that the cost of things definitely fluctuate. I was always told the best way to invest is to have a diversified portfolio. You don't want to have all your eggs in one basket (PM's for instance). The "smart" investor types recommend (i think, i'm doing this from memory) somewhere between 7-15% of your portfolio gold/silver. Since i'm an active member of this forum, and I do like Silver/Gold, my plan is going to have 15-20%. I also hope the person who asked the question about investing in silver realizes just who his audience is when he takes a poll. That's like going to a fat convention and asking "Is chocolate cake good, should I eat some?". LOL.

What happens if someone has all of their hard earned money in gold their entire life, and then someone figures out how to turn lead into gold? Don't you think the value of gold would go in the toilet? What about astroid mining, discovering new metals/elements. I don't think that is a question of if, I think it's a question of when.


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## butcher (Apr 14, 2013)

Did you know copper metal was in the penny, if you did do you know some of those coins you are spending today at the store can contain that valuable copper, silver was similar, people were well aware that coins contained silver, although some may have believed the mercury dime was made of mercury, the way I see it price does not fluctuate, it just seems to go in one direction up, :lol:


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## kkmonte (Apr 14, 2013)

butcher said:


> Did you know copper metal was in the penny, if you did do you know some of those coins you are spending today at the store can contain that valuable copper, silver was similar, people were well aware that coins contained silver, although some may have believed the mercury dime was made of mercury, the way I see it price does not fluctuate, it just seems to go in one direction up, :lol:



Yea but we are a lot smarter then people back in the 30's.  They didn't have google back then!


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## MMFJ (Apr 14, 2013)

While the "cost" of something does fluctuate, the "value" doesn't....... Again, mixing the two causes a lot of confusion. As the cost of gas(cigarettes, bread - whatever) rises (due to a massive number of reasons....), that then "floats all ships" and the cost of everything else rises (including the cost of silver and gold), yet the VALUE did not change - the 1toz silver still buys a meal, 1toz gold still buys a nice suit.......


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## zito (Apr 15, 2013)

I may well be wrong here, but I don't believe people in the '30's thought about the silver value of the quarter they had just spent, because all "money" had that value inherently. Coins had their silver value, and I believe that even paper money could be exchanged for gold at banks, at a fixed rate, or so I seem to recall reading or hearing about. Other members with knowledge of that would be able to say if that's right or not.


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## Anonymous (Apr 15, 2013)

kkmonte said:


> butcher said:
> 
> 
> > Did you know copper metal was in the penny, if you did do you know some of those coins you are spending today at the store can contain that valuable copper, silver was similar, people were well aware that coins contained silver, although some may have believed the mercury dime was made of mercury, the way I see it price does not fluctuate, it just seems to go in one direction up, :lol:
> ...


We may be smarter than back in the 30's, but we're definitely weaker than back then. And when you think of Google, Smartphones and all the technology out there, just think about how dumbed down we've become. I bet the average person nowadays don't know how to use a pencil or ink pen anymore, all because of the typing. The same with many other things, we're being evolved into not thinking for ourselves and letting technology think for us.

And what Butcher said earlier aught to make us understand something..... and that is, for 1), you better start keeping and collecting every penny you can find that is 1982 and earlier. After 1982, all the pennies are mostly Zinc, which is worth nothing compared to copper. Spend the 1983+ pennies and keep the rest. Look at Canada, they done away with pennies already, and right now people are selling Canadian pennies for $0.50 - $9.00 each, just for a copper penny or a few of them. $0.50 face value is sold on eBay and elsewhere for $10 a roll.

And in case you haven't heard, the Obama Administration has plans to do away with the us penny too. They are also talking about changing the metals used to make quarters, dimes and nickles, with less valuable metals, yet, non magnetic. 

To *Zito*,
Yes, you once could take your $1, $5 and other silver or dollar certificate and take it to the bank and get that value worth of silver or gold, whichever your certificate said. I believe it was 1972, when Richard (Tricky Dick) Nixon stopped it. Whatever the exact year, it was his administration that did away with paying out gold and silver from the certificates. I believe that's because there's no more gold or even silver in Fort Knox.

Silver, like all metals are going down like crazy, yet I notice around Tax Season, that's when it happens. It'll go back up, and right now is definitely the time to buy it while you can. gold too, palladium and other metals.

Kevin


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## kjt124 (Apr 16, 2013)

kkmonte said:


> Yea but we are a lot smarter then people back in the 30's. They didn't have google back then!



Probably going to ruffle a few feathers here, but people are most certainly not smarter than they were in the 30s. We simply have more access to looking information up. Information is closer to our fingertips than it ever was before. Unfortunately it is having the opposite effect on the vast majority of the population. People are more impatient, lazy, forgetful, and carry a more over-developed sense of entitlement than any generation in the past. I catch myself doing it as well. Calculations I used to perform in my head with ease I now reach for the calculator...

In the 30s people knew how to think for themselves because there wasn't a huge bank of information to easily tie into. In addition, there weren't 250 channels of mind numbing non-sense on the TV distracting them from a quarter of every day. I doubt many people today would be able to survive if they were suddenly placed back in the 30s. Darwinism still worked a little bit back then.

As for gold and silver - invest as you please, but it isn't money if you can't hold it in your hand. I have my tiny pile of silver and nearly non-existent pile of gold (hopefully to continue to grow) and I have a heck of a lot more faith in it then the artificially propped up petro-dollars that I currently trade for bread and eggs.

(gets back off his soapbox...)

Kevin


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## mikeinkaty (Apr 16, 2013)

kjt124 said:


> kkmonte said:
> 
> 
> > Yea but we are a lot smarter then people back in the 30's. They didn't have google back then!
> ...


And young people are much less self-reliant. Heaven help us if another depression hits like it did in the 1930's. Mike


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## MMFJ (Apr 16, 2013)

kjt124 said:


> Probably going to ruffle a few feathers here


The only feathers ruffled for me is those that make me say "Yep, I agree!"

"Entitlement fever" is rampant, true knowledge (those things you need to survive, not all the 'fluff' stuff) is waning (oh, I just was guilty - used the spellchecker to verify 'waning'!  ), and one of the worst to suffer - kindness toward your fellow man......

Want to know just how well you might survive in the '30s? Move to Ecuador! Well, maybe not the '30s, but certainly a more 'survival world' type situation - you really find out what you are made of.... 

It is actually one of the reasons I moved here - to re-establish my 'core', and I have to say, in that respect, it sure isn't deficient - every day there is something that reminds me (actually, today was a _repeat_ reminder - I had to run to get my laundry in from the "dryer" [no electric or gas used here!] line before the pouring RAIN, sadly, I am so spoiled to having it just sit in the machine until I'm ready to get it - and, of course, hitting the 'wrinkle-free' button......). 

Another 'reminder' is that I am spoiled about printing out various things whenever I need them. Here, printing is a LUXURY for the most part. There are shops that will print for you, but you have to take it on a disk or USB and they charge typically $.10 per page - you figure out in a hurry just how spoiled you are when you have to save the file, go down the street and pay for it to be printed - and then find out you have a mistake! (Oh, I know, all that talk about computers and such didn't fit in the '30s point, but then, that is part of the point!)


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## kkmonte (Apr 28, 2013)

kjt124 said:


> kkmonte said:
> 
> 
> > Yea but we are a lot smarter then people back in the 30's. They didn't have google back then!
> ...



Yea, you are right. What I meant to say was about access to facts, etc. I also agree that technology is making people dumber and lazy. I was a surveyor for 10+ years, and while doing all the calculations out in the field was fun, using all your geometry you learned in school, etc. I would always reach for my laptop with autocad on it now. I'm also the same way with my GPS. If I use the GPS to get somewhere, I'm not even paying attention to where i'm driving, i'm paying attention to the screen and the woman's voice telling me which way to turn. If I ever had to go back to a complicated place, I would never use GPS to get there, if i need to remember the path).


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## AndyWilliams (Apr 28, 2013)

kkmonte said:


> According to this site: ( http://commodityhq.com/2012/a-brief-2000-year-history-of-silver-prices/ ) , the price of silver was $0.25/ounce in 1932. So your 1932 quarter that contained 5.6grams of silver, the silver value was only ~4.5 cents. So the bread you were buying, you were buying it with the $.25 cents that it represented, not the 4.5 cents of silver. Right?



Ironically, the price of a loaf of bread in 1932 was under 10 cents. I found, in one place (http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/30sfood.html) a jumbo loaf of sliced bread for 5 cents in 1939. That silver, though it be in the form of a quarter, does the same job now, as it did then.


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## pena4250 (May 11, 2013)

Graded Silver Eagles MS 70 or 69, low mintage years, especially if they are PROOF'S. The US Mint I believe has already stopped minted the 2013, rumor so don't quote me..... Graded coins wether it be silver or gold is the way I go... Do your homework, you will see.... Yes I have 1-5oz bars of silver but graded coins are they way to go IMO.....


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## Cap1 (May 5, 2022)

ilikesilver said:


> Here is my thinking... back when the stock market crashed around 2006 my wife and I lost almost 30G in stocks, our nest egg for retirement. I was laid off from Bosch, a 480 billion dollar world wide company. Being in my mid 40s, enough said there, have had a very hard time finding a good job that paid like bosch did and had the benefits. Currently still looking, but am working. No descent health insurance, no dental insurance, and my nest egg is pretty much shot. Luckily i have been a coin collector sense i was 10 years old. I can remember the days getting silver in change at the local store. when i was 13 had my first job working counting bottles at the local 5 & dime. It was nothing to get a roll of silver or two a week, even red notes and blue notes in currency, silver certificates stuff like that. I currently have emassed quite a coin collection through trading and buying over the years. That is my nest egg now.
> The US doesnt have the economy it use to. The jobs were you could go to work for and they would train you are gone. IBM doesnt hire full time anymore, they are all 6 month contracts temp basis. Whens the last time you heard anything about digital, or GE? All the jobs are oversea's now adays.
> So weather you decide that in your local economy is it worth investing in silver, or gold, or platinum or whatever. There is a lot to consider.
> 
> By low, stock pile it, then sell high down the road. Look at the trends at what the metals have been doing in the last 5 years. I prefer silver, because you still can buy it cheap, then in my case refine it for a higher profit later. Depending on how you decide to do it, its still gonna take some time to work out whatever process you decide, bullion, or scrap. good luck.


Hi, I am a pensioner on USA and Australia pension incomes and have stopped paying taxes to both counties. I live permanently in Australia. Unfortunately I will be tied to the US tax system forever which means that if I buy gold/silver coins/bullion at 50-100% premiums + sales tax + having to worry about capital gains when I sell them means that the spot price of gold/silver would have to double in order for me to even break even. I understand that gold would hold its value better than fiat currency but having to wait a long time to make a profit does not seem worth it considering paying 20% capital gains back to the IRS and being pulled back into the taxing system. Some times I feel that its better just to trade the gold for goods and services.


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## goldshark (May 6, 2022)

In my opinion, you should be able to take a silver certificate to the mint or bank, and redeem it for the value in silver, in weight, when the note was issued, in todays dollars. In other words, if you had a 1 dollar silver certificate issued in 1932, when silver was worth $1.00 an ounce troy, and todays price is $22.00 T/oz. you should be able to exchange your $1.00 silver certificate for $22.00 today. Unfortunately the US monetary system is a Ponzi scheme, and the previously mentioned exchange, is a great example of what the dollar does in relation to inflation, and how our monetary system works. This is why precious metals will always be a great hedge against inflation, and not a really good investment with greater returns than an investment paying a higher than inflation rate return.


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## silver1 (May 6, 2022)

I converted a lot of my gold to silver. It's probably 90% silver, 10% gold. 
I bought and sold almost all my big ticket items with gold and silver. I've bought houses, cars, equipment, anything i can with silver and gold. Look around, they're more people than you think. I'm not planning on paying Capital gains tax. I figure i've got 30 years left. I'm betting on the wheels falling off the government by then. Matter of fact, i'm waiting on it now. Everything i have is for my kids and grand kids anyways. Fair is fair, but they don't get to dictate the fair part, i do!


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## goldshark (May 6, 2022)

I like your attitude and savvy.


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## goldshark (May 6, 2022)

Unfortunately, inheritance taxes and capital gains taxes still come into play with the guvmint. A good attorney can set up a partnership with the family members to enable you to gift them annually. Start now, as you can do a one time large gift, tax free, then an annual gift of X amount, as long as you live.


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## silver1 (May 7, 2022)

Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesars. After that.... You're going to have to come and take it! 

I used to be that guy who ate Apple pie and waved the flag. I did my part and contributed. A LOT! Things changed about 2006 for me. I started seeing what was happening with all the wealth i had worked hard for all them years. Now granted it wasn't a lot, but dammit.... i worked hard for it! Then about 2007 i found the answer i was looking for. Anybody know what happened about Feb. 2007? Well a group of guys got together from all walks of life and decided to start sharing information that contained value. Welcome to the Gold Refining Forum! 15 years! 

Well in that 15 years i have been able to go from just a redneck to...... a successful redneck refiner. I have also been able to capitalize not only on the knowledge, but in the free spirit it was given. It's turned out to be one of the best decisions of my life. I've also learned a lot about the powers that be that controls our monetary systems. I've learned the game is always rigged from the start in the houses favor. Like i said, I don't mind doing my part, but after that you're just stealing from me. I guess for me it's about whether or not you chose to participate in their system or not. I get to chose whether or not i want to play the game and by that i get to chose the rules of *MY* game, not theirs. Now not all people can do that. It's according to the system you exist in and the rules. Luckily for me i'm in the good old USA. I and i alone am the purveyor of my existence and of my destiny. I need no other system put in place to survive or exist. In order to really survive and thrive i would argue we need less. These system are for others benefit, not ours. I am my own sovereign entity appoint by my own god given rights. Gold and silver offers freedom. Freedom from all those systems that seek to enslave us. A fee man asks permission from no one!


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## markscomp (May 7, 2022)

gotta correct you "A fee man asks permission" sounds like a fed asks permission - just saying


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## markscomp (May 7, 2022)

Silver1, send me a pm - the email and contact system here is odd, stuff vanishes or get erased


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