# My first button



## bob h (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks to the forum and Butchers advice on the processing of my powders,my first button weighed in at 4.5g. The starting material weighed 12g


I am currently processing about 77g of pins of which I will have another small button to post.Thanks again


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## jack_burton (Feb 22, 2012)

Very cool, looks nice and pure!


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## ericrm (Feb 22, 2012)

very nice
i love shinny button 
if i may ask ,the fact that the button is not perfectly round (to what i have experienced)mean it doesnt have gotten hot enuf to melt very liquid ...
can someone on the forum tell me if it have incidence in capacity of borax to absorb impurity?or anything that would be good to know?


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## its-all-a-lie (Feb 22, 2012)

you said the starting material weighed 12g, do you mean the powder you melted?


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## Geo (Feb 22, 2012)

the button looks good but that puddle of borax could make it hard to get it out without damaging the dish. that is way too much borax for that much gold, notice how the sides of the dish looks wet, the entire surface of the dish should look like that. the borax serves two purposes, it lubricates the dish and traps TRACE amounts of impurities. if your using borax thinking it will clean your gold then thats the wrong assumption as it should be clean before you start. the gold is so much more dense than the borax, the borax never enters the matrix of the gold. the gold needs to be swirled around inside the dish carefully after the gold is melted so the gold can come into contact with the borax as well as picking up any stray BB's. after you retrieve your button and assuming the dish is still intact, put it in a heat resistant glass container and add some diluted sulfuric acid and boil it until the borax has dissolved and then recondition the dish correctly.


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## Harold_V (Feb 23, 2012)

ericrm said:


> can someone on the forum tell me if it have incidence in capacity of borax to absorb impurity?or anything that would be good to know?


Yes, borax can and does pick up impurities, but they must be oxides, or non-metallic substances. 

Did you notice the color of the flux coating? It should be clear---but it has a hint of green on my monitor. That's a sign of having picked up a contaminant. The sole exception where color is concerned is if the flux coating picks up a hint of pink or purple, each of which are a sign of colloidal gold. 

The amount of flux in the dish is excessive, so removal of the button will border on the impossible. I'd reheat the button, getting it hot enough to move freely in the flux. It's a good idea to superheat the gold somewhat, so it will move freely, then to swirl the dish, causing the button to move about. That ensures that no powder remains un-melted. Once swirled, allow the button to freeze, and, while it's still red hot, it should be removed from the dish. I used a tweezers to remove them. The flux remains molten for a few seconds after the gold has frozen, assuming you have heated the dish adequately. That provides the small window of opportunity to remove the button. 

Harold


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## bob h (Feb 23, 2012)

Thanks for the comments everyone,I placed the button back in the dish for the picture and to get the comments of the members.I know now that I had to much borax and yes it did not pluck out of the dish easily. I was using a oxy/acet torch with a small tip, I was having a hard time getting it to melt and when it finaly did go I got so darned excited I pulled it out a little to early,I did not swirl it around the dish and there still are quite a few BBs stuck on the sides of the dish. I was not sure of the contents of my powder when I started because it was given to me in a dissolved state and evaporated. I saved all my solutions and tested with stannous. I expect my next one will go smoother. 
Thanks everyone.


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## ericrm (Feb 23, 2012)

they'r is a few thing that bugs me in what you wrote
did you start with 12 g of gold power in your dish and end up with a 4.5 g button??
i use oxy acet torch, single flame, and gold melt in few second...

ok, im not sure if this is your case but here what i think
if you start with 12 g of powder you have lost 8 g of material,and gold and metalic impurity dont vannish,your borax didnt absorb 8g of material, you probably blown it off
when you use your oxy acet torch ,did you put it at the lower possible setting? mine is so low that you dont even hear the sound of the gaz comming out.i got a 1/8 inch blue point very very hot with GENTLE flame forming a cone around it 
(watch pictures)
also did you isolate your dish?
to work well and and fast ,you isolate your dish ,your heat your dish SLOWLY but to glowing hot,your borax will be very liquid than your add your powder, after that it doesnt even took 10 sec to melt your gold to very liquid 
hope this is good for you


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## jack_burton (Feb 23, 2012)

I think I read it and understood he started with 12g of pins/material and ended up with a 4.5g button. I could be wrong.


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## its-all-a-lie (Feb 23, 2012)

that was my question also, if he started with 12g gold powder, he has lost a considerable ammount in the melt. is there a type of pin that will produce that much gold from 12 grams?


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## ericrm (Feb 23, 2012)

no the very best yield are about 10% by weight as glondor shown in his contest


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## kuma (Feb 24, 2012)

Hello all , how are tricks?
I hope all is well!
My guess is that he may have been working with 9k gold.

(4.5/12) x 100 = 37.5

( 9 karat gold being 37.5% fine gold , :roll: )
I could be well off , it would be interesting to hear what the starting material actualy was!
All the best everybody, and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## bob h (Feb 25, 2012)

My starting material was 12g of unrefined and unknown karat powder that tested positive with stannous,now keep in mind that this was my first melt and I was reluctant to melt it from the top for fear of blowing my gold out of dish so I heated my dish from underneath and was only able to get it to melt when I used another torch from the top. my button weighed 4.9g and then I soaked it in sulphuric to clean the excess flux it weighed 4.5g. I learned alot and I know I did not achieve the purity that I shoud have but next time will be better. Thanks again for all the comments


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## kuma (Feb 25, 2012)

Hello Bob , How are tricks?
I hope your well!
If I may ask , what do you reffer to when you say "unknown karat powder" , just to satisfy my own curiosity ?
When I think of gold in powder form , I automatically think of natural flower gold or a precipitant from a gold bearing solution , I've not heard of karat gold in a powder form before , :roll: 
Sorry for asking chief , just interested!
Nice work by the way!
All the best with it , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## bob h (Feb 26, 2012)

Hi Chris 
Thanks for asking, The powder in my second picture is the same material that I started with. When it was given to me i was told that it came from dissolved jewelry, I do not know what the karat was but your guess is pretty good. I'm sure I lost some in the refining but I did keep all my solutions
Thanks
Bob


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