# Consulting on PGM refining



## kjavanb123 (Aug 22, 2010)

All,

I was wondering if any of the pros here are interested in doing a in-person training on process of refining PGM from AR dissolving on ward. Plz email. 

Thanks
Kev


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 22, 2010)

Kev,

You didn't provide an email address, so I'll PM

Can you give more detail? Types of scrap you want to run? Quantities? Where you're located? How much you want to spend for a setup? Etc.

Chris


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## kjavanb123 (Aug 22, 2010)

Chris,

You can email me at [email protected] Mostly auto cats, I can produce the black powder using zinc and HCL cl. I am just having some issues with the AR dissovling and separating the Pt and Pd. that is the area i need help with. I am in VA and willing to travel.


Thanks
Kev


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## MariusBY (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi everyone. I tried to extract PGMs powder, used the royal water. Combs cooked in royal water. After that was raised liquid ph.level. And finally disposed of metals with zinc. In Steve dvd. everything seems different, my PGM. Powder is a solid mass of black not know what. It is all metal, they did not disappear, but why is not friable mass had to be like? and one more thing, the weight is too high From 1300grams. cat.converters I got the 22 grams of this black material.


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## Lou (Dec 6, 2010)

Looks like carbon. It's very odd to get a black-colored mass from zinc reduction, usually you get a gray sandy/course powder that is heavy and free flowing.


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## MariusBY (Dec 6, 2010)

It may seem so, but the liquid was filtered well before start work with zinc. strange result. Well let's leave for a short filter proces,a small possibility that the liquid was poorly filtered. I wonder if it can be other causes.


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## lazersteve (Dec 6, 2010)

Redissolve a 1 gram sample in a small amount of AR and see what you get with DMG and stannous chloride tests.

What did you use to raise the pH and to what pH?

What was your source of zinc?

Steve


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## MariusBY (Dec 8, 2010)

I used to raise the pH level pool chemistry,similar to that on DVD. seen. Actually I have no measurements on pH,increasing pH. until see a white precipitate on the bottom. Next step zinc, 300mech.


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## lazersteve (Dec 8, 2010)

Did the combs ave a metal or ceramic substrate?

The swab looks positive.

The fine mesh zinc is contaminated with Cab-O-Sil (SiO2) added as a stabilizer in shipping. I discovered since making the DVD and started using zinc turnings instead. I sell them on my web site now. The turnings go a lot further than the zinc powder does and they do not contain Cab-O-Sil.


Steve


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## MariusBY (Dec 9, 2010)

combs were ceramic. What if I am now filtered this AR. liquid? and I could probably go to the next step, after filtration this.maybe is not necessary to collect the powder PGM and everything return to the AR liquid. The undesirable element of SiO2 which is located in the zinc powder? the sediments on the bottom are SiO2?


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## lazersteve (Dec 9, 2010)

Filter the solution until it is 100% free of sediment.

Keep the solids that end up in the filter for futher testing before disposal.

Proceed as if you had just dissolved the solid PGMs powder in AR.

Steve


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## MariusBY (Dec 12, 2010)

Thank you for your advices and opinions expressed,I will share the results once they are.Sorry for the English grammar errors, please be patient, I'm still studying this language


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## MariusBY (Dec 20, 2010)

Hi all again On this topic,As always I have a big question. More closely connected with Steve DVD. about zinc precipitation and filter a black powder after precipitation. After zinc precipitation we get a black solution with black sponges and between sponges almost invisible pgm.Powder. The question is how after filtering the black solution and collect all black material separate all pgm.powder from black material ? Steve kolect 8,4 grams pgm.powder in dvd. gray sandy course powder that is heavy and free flowing. Please Help me overcome this barrier


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## lazersteve (Dec 20, 2010)

Instead of filtering the fine black sediment from the zinc precipitation, simply alllow the solution to settle and siphon off the liquid from the fine powders. Test the solutoin for PGMs before proper disposal.

Wash the fine powders into a smaller beaker with a spray bottle. 

Add a dilute 10% solutoin of HCl (muriatic acid) and allow to react until all fizzing (tiny streams of bubbles) is completed. This removes any zinc left over in the powder.

Allow to settle again and siphon. Now process the mixed PGM powder with a minimal amount of AR as shown on the DVD. 

If you used fine zinc powder as shown on the DVD you will likely encounter an insoluble sand like brown powder. This is Cab-O-Sil (SiO2) a stabilizer added to powdered zinc for shipping purposes. I found this out after making the DVD.

Steve


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 20, 2010)

lazersteve said:


> Instead of filtering the fine black sediment from the zinc precipitation, simply alllow the solution to settle and siphon off the liquid from the fine powders. Test the solutoin for PGMs before proper disposal.
> 
> Wash the fine powders into a smaller beaker with a spray bottle.
> 
> ...



Steve,

If you use the zinc turnings you show on your web site will they have the same stabelizer?


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## lazersteve (Dec 20, 2010)

No.

They are made by yours truly from solid zinc blocks at my buddy's machine shop. I don't use any oils when turning the zinc so it's as pure as I can get it. Occasionally you may find a few tiny shreds of cardboard in my turnings from the cardboard box I use to catch the turnings off of the machine, but they don't affect the zinc reaction and are easily removed in the filter once the mixed PGM powder is dissolved.

Steve


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## Barren Realms 007 (Dec 20, 2010)

Excellent 

Thanks Steve


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## MariusBY (Dec 21, 2010)

from the beginning I made a mistake,mistake is that I cooked ceramics catalyst dust in concentrated AR. And now platinum and palladium soliution is mixed together,after boiling pgm,s in dilute AR. I separate rhodium as Steve made in dvd. but there is a problem now, palladium and platinum is dissolved and mixed in single liquid. How do I remove them after one,first platinum later Palladium? really it does not matter what first. Maybe go back to the zinc? and repeat everything as it should


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## MariusBY (Dec 21, 2010)

Now I understand that my question is incorrect,sorry for that. I ask a little differently,Will it be good if I use ammonium chloride in order to pull out platinum,next pull out palladium with sodium chlorate from the total liquid with platinum and palladium dissolves?


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## lazersteve (Dec 21, 2010)

The DVD demonstrates the answer to your question. 

First use NH4Cl to get the Pt, vacuum filter, concentrate the remaining solution, add sodium chlorate to get the Pd to precipitate. Depending on how much of an excess of NH4Cl you used to precipitate the Pt, you may need to add a little more to get the Pd to precipitate.

Steve


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## MariusBY (Dec 21, 2010)

Ok. Steve, I just wanted to check it. The first time to my on this proces,I want to make things go as smoothly as possible. Very grateful for everything.


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## MariusBY (Jan 1, 2011)

Hello everyone,Happy New Year to all. I continue my practice on PGM refining and here's what I came to.


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## lazersteve (Jan 1, 2011)

DMG is the definitive test for Pd. Check the General Reaction list in the Guided Tour Link for details.

Steve


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## MariusBY (Jan 3, 2011)

And again I am faced with the problem. Filtering platinum,filters washed with ammonium chloride.Everything washed with ammonium chloride to a small petri plate. When I tried to evaporate the liquid, ammonium chloride remained in the platinum powder. How can I get rid of ammonium chloride? As we can see it is quite a lot of amonius cloride in there. The same problem with palladium, but I yet have not tried evaporate.As seen in the picture, the platinum dish is even more of ammonium chloride. I must admit that I made probably more than 15-25% concentration of ammonium chloride.


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## lazersteve (Jan 3, 2011)

For Pt add just enough water water at room temperature to dissolve the excess ammonium chloride and vacuum filter off the colored powder, or you could dissolve the solids in 10% HCl and precipitate the metals with zinc as described here:

Conversion of Colored PGM Salts with Zinc

or 

For Pd dissolve the all of the colored solids in excess ammonia 10%, vacuum filter, and precipitate the Pd again using HCl (32%). The filter will contain base metal hydroxides and mixed PGMs other than Pd as described here:

Purifying Colored Pd Salts


Steve


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