# Refing karat gold with Electrolytic Cell Questions



## lazersteve (Mar 31, 2007)

This topic was created for your questions and comments on the Refining karat gold with Electrolytic Cell Tutorial.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=192

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 6, 2007)

What is the deal with this cell? Can you give the details of the process before before you make the rest of the videos? I watched the cathode video and am quite curious.


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## lazersteve (Apr 6, 2007)

Chris,

The cell is modeled after a patent that claims to process karat gold.

The initial forum post is here:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=192

I've never run one of this type so I'm going to give it a whirl and share my adventures with the forum. :lol: 

You mentioned in one of your other posts that you have a large cell that can do the same with karat gold. Does it work well? 

This design catches the gold as a powder in a nylon bag around the anode made of the karat gold you are dissolving. The base metals and silver go into solution while the anode dissolves.

If you want the patent info just shoot me a PM and it's all yours.

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 6, 2007)

I don't remember mentioning a karat gold cell but I have always thought it would work using my super duper secret modification to the sulfuric cell but, I haven't tried it.


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## sandhog (Apr 6, 2007)

GSP,

I promise I won't tell anyone :twisted:


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## Fever (Apr 6, 2007)

Yea, me niether! Spill the beans, GSP!


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## lazersteve (Apr 6, 2007)

Hey guys,

Ease off the gas pedal a bit and he might share a tid bit with us in due time. :lol: 

There's more than enough secrets floating around this forum to keep us all busy.

Steve


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## AuMINIMayhem (Apr 20, 2007)

When building a "Cell", what would happen if you used gold for the anode AND the cathode ? (ok, I'm wikked confused about which one you're plating to and which one is the feeder material you're trying to refine)

Like I said in the other post, I'm really new to this, so I'm going to ask stupid questions for a while until I figure it out a bit..  thanks for your patience.


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## lazersteve (Apr 20, 2007)

There are several types of cells. This type does NOT plate the gold out. Instead the gold turns into a powder and is caught in a nylon bag which is around the anode (positive lead in an electrolytic cell). All the other base metals and silver stay in the solution (electrolyte). The karat gold is the anode and the graphite rod is the cathode (negative in an electrolytic cell). This is a more complex cell design and you should work on the other version which removes plated gold before trying to tackle this one. You will also need more specialized equipment for this one.

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 20, 2007)

The anode (+) is always the one that dissolves. The cathode (-) is the one that plates. To plate, you must have a metal dissolved in the solution. In this strong sulfuric system, since there is essentially nothing dissolved in the solution, nothing will plate onto the cathode. The gold dissolves from the anode but, it immediately precipitates and forms a powder and, therefore, it is not dissolved and doesn't plate out.

If your sulfuric is too weak, there is a much better chance of dissolving copper and nickel, and both of these can plate out on the cathode.

You could probably use about anything that's conductive for the cathode as long as it's something that doesn't fall apart, like carbon.


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## lazersteve (Apr 20, 2007)

goldsilverpro said:


> In this strong sulfuric system, since there is essentially nothing dissolved in the solution, nothing will plate onto the cathode



This topic is concerning the Karated Gold Electrolytic Cell. No sulfuric is used in this one, the electrolyte is ammonium chloride and table salt. I too was confused at first with the content of the posters question, but I determined he's referring to the karat cell by checking the topic at beginning of the thread.

It's hard to say now as I am confused too :?: 

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 20, 2007)

It's interesting that ammonium chloride figures in most all of Peter Shor's patents. I would bet that it's the secret proprietary ingredient that he sells.


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## lazersteve (Apr 20, 2007)

I hope not because in my Karat Gold Cell:Mixing the Electrolyte tutorial I will demonstrate to everyone how to make it with two common household ingredients! I'm sure you know what they are Chris. :wink: I'll demonstrate proper mixing ratios and techniques as well as proper Ph testing. I hope to have the free time this weekend to get back on that tutorial. The next segment will cover the anode construction which is very simple, so I may get to the electrolyte tutorial also this weekend. 

I've been in a specialized training course all week at work and my wife has started a new job so my schedule has be all mixed up this week. I'm going to try and get back on track with my tutorials soon. I also have a contest that is ending in a very disappointing 2 winners tonight at midnight. I am working on a contest for the active members next... stay tuned. :wink: 


Steve


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## Fever (Apr 20, 2007)

lazersteve said:


> I am working on a contest for the active members next... stay tuned. :wink:
> 
> 
> Steve



Sweeeet! Whatcha got? Huh? Huh?......... HUH?  

Fever


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## lazersteve (Apr 20, 2007)

Fever, 

I'm thinking of a top prize of $100  worth of gold or 5# :shock: of scrap gold headers as in the previous contest, but I haven't completely decided yet. I figure the stakes will be bigger for the Active Members since they will be required to do more than just a simple post. I'll be posting more information tonight with the rules after midnight when the Silent Newbie Contest expires.

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 20, 2007)

What do you mean by headers? The top hat types of transistor headers - TO5's? TO18's?


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## Noxx (Apr 20, 2007)

I presume site admin can't win 
Lol.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 20, 2007)

Maybe all members with at least one post can do the voting. Maybe, all members. I would think you should be eligible, Noxx.


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## lazersteve (Apr 20, 2007)

The headers are 30 pin dual in line as pictured in the first contest.

Yes the site admin will be eligible. I will exclude only myself from winning. 

Any member with at least 1 post will be able to vote.

Any member who has posted at least once will also be eligible to win.

I'll post more after midnight when the other contest expires.


Steve


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## lazersteve (Apr 20, 2007)

Noxx, 

You should change your ebay advertisment to include 'contests with gold prizes'. 

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 20, 2007)

What do the headers yield, Steve?


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## lazersteve (Apr 20, 2007)

I haven't processed any of this particular batch. I figure a pound of headers will produce 3/4 pound of *PINS* or better. The pins are partially plated (75% of the length). Other pins of similar plating quality and fully plated have yielded between 1 and 3 grams per pound. These appear to be of average quality plating and should yield about 1 gram per pound of *PINS* since they are partially plated. 

I don't like making blind quotes but if I had to guess I would say 5# of headers will yield about 3.75 pounds of pins or about 3.5 grams of gold. DON"T HOLD ME TO THIS EXACT AMOUNT !!! it is a good ball park. I would say 2.5-3.5 grams of gold is a good broad estimate. I'll try to get an actual pin weight to help the estimate. Give me some time.

I would call these mid-grade scrap.

Steve


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## Noxx (Apr 20, 2007)

lazersteve said:


> Noxx,
> 
> You should change your ebay advertisment to include 'contests with gold prizes'.
> 
> Steve



Hehe, I like the idea !


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 20, 2007)

Was the $100 worth of gold vs 5# of headers an either/or thing or, have you decided to just go with the headers?


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## lazersteve (Apr 20, 2007)

I just plucked the pins out of 4 headers here are the results:


Total Weight 16 Grams

Pin Weight: 5.5 Grams

Plastic Weight: 10.5 grams

From this we have 5.5/16= .344 

5# x .344 = 1.72 pounds of pins from 5# of headers.

*Average* yield per pound 100% plated= 2 gms.

*Average* yield per pound 75% plated= .75 X 2 = 1.5 gms

The gold yield estimate is :

1.72 pounds X 1.5 gm/pound avg estimate = 2.58 gms *ESTIMATED YIELD* for 5# of headers


I hope this helps,

Steve


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