# Need help newbie



## Billydean (Mar 10, 2013)

So I just ran into some scrap 925 and i tried melting it into a bar 1st off I can't get it hot enough to pour and now it all black and nasty looking. How can I clean it? Tried alum and baking soda. In boiling water it dont work


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## element47.5 (Mar 10, 2013)

Why would you melt it? For what purpose? 

Before you did anything at all to it, it was stamped STERLING. 

Suppose you were able to melt it. It would no longer be stamped STERLING. 

So, you go to sell it to someone. They ask "what is this"?

You say "STERLING SILVER. They say "uh-huh, how do I know that?" 

You: "Because...yada yada yada yada......"

Potential buyer then says "you go assay this and bring back the assay with some way for me to know that whatever blob of metal you are offering me is the same one you submitted to assay (Which there is in essence NO WAY to do except to the assayer himself) so I know what I am buying and we'll talk". Cost: About $100. 

You cannot supply a logical or well thought out reason why you chose to melt your sterling. Around here, we're big fans of educating ourselves before we do stuff, whether with torch, with chemicals, or any other other process. We don't believe that any old random chemical lying around the house will work for cleaning silver. We don't believe that just because we think something should work a certain way it will work that way.


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## kadriver (Mar 10, 2013)

Billy Dean

There is much silver out there that is marked 925 but it is not silver at all.

Get some silver test solution and test each piece to verify the silver content before you commit the metal to a melt or any refining process.

You may have base metal in your blob of metal. But you can recover the silver so make sure and save everything.

When I first started refining it did not even know that it existed.

You can make it with nitric acid and potassium dichromate or buy it pre made on eBay.

Hope this is helpful to you.

kadriver


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## kadriver (Mar 10, 2013)

One way to clean the junk off your metal;

Get some sulfuric acid at the hardware store, it is called Root drain cleaner, or Liquid fire.

Combine 100ml distilled water and 5ml sulfuric acid in a heat resistant glass container.

Heat the weak acid solution gently and put your dirty metal into the warm solution.

This should clean the junk and leave a nice clean piece of metal - should take about 10 minutes depending on the junk encrusted on your metal.

kadriver


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## Billydean (Mar 10, 2013)

Basically, I get bored and just wanted to melt it into ingots. I can stamp the stuff sterling! 
And it was all black and tarnished like sliver. When I got it. So I think it's all sliver I cleaned it all up with baking soda and alum* and baking soda. Cleaned up like sliver. I'm building a smelting foundry now so I can melt it and pour in a wood mold. This should be easy since I bulild rocket mass heaters and rocket stove for fun out of cans.


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## butcher (Mar 10, 2013)

Billydean,

It would be interesting if you posted picture of the furnace you are building,
Do you plan on refining your sterling?
If you are and want to refine some karat gold with it, we can help with some of the details.
Have you been reading Hokes book?


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## SilverNitrate (Mar 11, 2013)

Billydean said:


> Basically, I get bored and just wanted to melt it into ingots. I can stamp the stuff sterling!
> And it was all black and tarnished like sliver. When I got it. So I think it's all sliver I cleaned it all up with baking soda and alum* and baking soda. Cleaned up like sliver. I'm building a smelting foundry now so I can melt it and pour in a wood mold. This should be easy since I bulild rocket mass heaters and rocket stove for fun out of cans.


What kind of quantity are you melting? and is it jewelry or flatware?
you need to obtain a temp of 1700F (with no cool air comming in or hot air leaving out) to melt that silver. use borax as the others metals in with that silver can oxidize. Nowadays more and more buyers have XRF analyzers so selling a blank ingot is a little easier, but don't make the bars too thick.


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## Billydean (Mar 11, 2013)

All it's sterling jewelry. But I'd like for it to get hot enough to melt gold and copper I will post pictures of it as soon as I get it out of the idea stage and get something together


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## Billydean (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm not sure if I should build a charcole burning furnace or propane fired?


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## Billydean (Mar 11, 2013)

Ok and I need help on what type of crucible to use ? Iron or clay?


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## philddreamer (Mar 11, 2013)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=17196&p=174067&hilit=never+melt+gold#p174067


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## butcher (Mar 12, 2013)

I would work first on a good torch, Mapp gas and a melting dish will work on the cheap,
to get you started, you can make a small furnace with soft fire brick, but a couple of melting dishes from Laser Steve's web site around 3 dollars each, He used to make and sell the small furnaces he made, if he has them in his store they are well worth the price, if he does not have them any more you can see pictures of his or other members and see how they made theirs to get Ideas how to make yours, the fire brick furnace is not needed to melt silver and gold but helps keep heat in so it is helpful.

We can also help you build a bigger furnace if you wish, (homemade propane furnace and making your own burner), but at this point you really do not have a use for one, the dish and a good torch will do what you will want to do, latter you can work on getting a better torch.

You could later get the torch of your choice, propane and oxygen, acetylene oxygen, natural gas and oxygen, hydrogen and air or oxygen....

Coal or wood, or charcoal, would be messy harder to control heat or keep it hot long enough...
A gas fired furnace would be my choice.


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