# scrap prices



## Geo (Nov 14, 2015)

For anyone that is holding non-precious metals, do not sell unless you absolutely have to. I sold a small list of metals yesterday to check prices. Shredder steel - $2.00 per hundred pounds. In May, it was $12 per hundred. #2 copper - $1.60 per pound. Aluminum - $.32 per pound. Yellow brass - $.95 per pound.

Regular unleaded $1.85 per gallon on the up side though.


----------



## Grelko (Nov 14, 2015)

Geo said:


> For anyone that is holding non-precious metals, do not sell unless you absolutely have to. I sold a small list of metals yesterday to check prices. Shredder steel - $2.00 per hundred pounds. In May, it was $12 per hundred. #2 copper - $1.60 per pound. Aluminum - $.32 per pound. Yellow brass - $.95 per pound.
> 
> Regular unleaded $1.85 per gallon on the up side though.



I haven't dropped anything off in 3 weeks, so these prices might be a bit off.

Over here, shredder is around $1.75/100, May was around $9.00/100. Copper #1 = $1.85, #2 is $1.65. Aluminum $0.32-$0.36, Yellow brass $1.15/pound.

I don't have the room to keep much shredder and I might take aluminum down once in a while, the rest I'm hanging onto for now.

Regular unleaded is $2.27-$2.35 through town.

There's almost a dozen scrapyards within 10 miles from here, so I get to make some phone calls once prices go back up.


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 14, 2015)

Steel is trading at $15 per metric tonne over here.

Petrol is $7.4 per UK gallon (8 pints)


----------



## Palladium (Nov 14, 2015)

spaceships said:


> Petrol is $7.4 per UK gallon (8 pints)



Wow! :shock:


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 14, 2015)

That's low Ralph 

It hit nearly $10 per gallon for a long time. We have free healthcare over here unlike you guys in the US. It has to be paid for somehow, and fuel duty is one of the things that pays for it. Along with that you have cigarettes at $12 per pack....


----------



## Palladium (Nov 14, 2015)

But the price of gold is the same. lol
:mrgreen:


----------



## butcher (Nov 14, 2015)

"Free health care" that sounds like a pile of bull turds, I do not see anything "free" about it, it sounds like someone is just pulling the wool over your eyes, and the "free" healthcare is costing everyone a lot of money or their gold.
Government, lawyers, doctors and so on, are just stealing from every poor sucker they can, telling them they are getting something for "free", the rich are getting poorer, the healthy are getting sicker, and all of these poor suckers are just dying poor, on this "free" healthcare, that is not helping any of those poor suckers except the pockets of some, and end the end even them poor suckers are just buried with nothing (unless someone put some gold in their casket, but the mortician probably just took it anyway, along with their gold teeth) so no body wins in the end with this bull manure called "FREE" healthcare... 

There ain't nothing free in this world somebody has to pay somehow.
Free healthcare everyone is paying and nobody is getting what they paid for.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Nov 14, 2015)

butcher, I agree that there is no such thing as "free" healthcare. As Jon has said, the taxes on fuel, tobacco, etc. pay for it. 

However, having spent 20 years in the medical billing business, I can tell you that our system in the US is horribly broken, and one of the worst in the world. The ones who profit the most are the insurance companies and the lawyers who file frivolous lawsuits. 

When my wife and I left our "regular" jobs and started rehabbing houses, we had to buy individual health care insurance. Our premiums were running over $1,000 per month. Now, under the Affordable Health Care Act, they're just as high, but we do get some relief from the government. Neither of us have ever come close to receiving services worth that much.

The biggest expense for any medical practice isn't the doctors' salaries, it's malpractice insurance. It accounted for about 35% of the total costs at the Neurology practice I worked at last. We never saw any benefit from those fees, nor did any of our patients. 

Our doctors had to spend more and more of their time "documenting" their services instead of rendering care, because the insurance companies might deny or reduce their payments if the documentation wasn't sufficient in the insurance companies' eyes. Every year, I would have to waste weeks of my own time responding to insurance companies' "post payment reviews". 

Our system could be fixed by making all insurance companies operate as not for profit businesses. It's the profits from those companies, along with the ludicrous salaries of the executives who run them, that sucks up all the money.

I'll step down off my soap box now.

Dave


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 14, 2015)

I touched a raw nerve there obviously Butcher. Apologies for that. You'll note that I did say "it has to be paid for somehow" in my post and that's why we pay far more tax here that you pay in the US.

It is free at the point of delivery. With the exception of paying £10 for a drug prescription ( a flat fee for a drug costing £3 or £3,000) you pay nothing. Private Medical insurance here is a way of jumping a queue for an operation, or being seen quicker by a specialist. I can phone my Doctor and make an appointment without getting out my insurance details or my cheque book.


----------



## 4metals (Nov 14, 2015)

> The biggest expense for any medical practice isn't the doctors' salaries, it's malpractice insurance. It accounted for about 35% of the total costs at the Neurology practice I worked at last. We never saw any benefit from those fees, nor did any of our patients.



I wonder how the free health care systems in Europe and Canada deal with malpractice? Surely if the government had to deal with it on the same level as we do here in the US they will come up with a way to either limit malpractice lawsuits or limit profits of the insurance carrier.


----------



## Palladium (Nov 14, 2015)

4metals said:


> > The biggest expense for any medical practice isn't the doctors' salaries, it's malpractice insurance. It accounted for about 35% of the total costs at the Neurology practice I worked at last. We never saw any benefit from those fees, nor did any of our patients.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how the free health care systems in Europe and Canada deal with malpractice? Surely if the government had to deal with it on the same level as we do here in the US they will come up with a way to either limit malpractice lawsuits or limit profits of the insurance carrier.



It's quiet simple...... They won't !

Ask the veterans of the VA!


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 14, 2015)

Malpractice suits in the UK are much much less frequent than those in the US. We don't yet have the same level of vexatious litigation here that you experience over there but it's certainly on the rise. There is currently no such thing as a class action in English law for example. 

People do successfully sue the medical profession but it's rare and is usually for something dramatic rather than frivolous. Once our ambulance chasers reach the level of proficiency of those in the US then I fear the whole situation will rapidly go the hell in a handbasket.

I think it's simply a case of different cultures gents.

Jon


----------



## 4metals (Nov 14, 2015)

> I think it's simply a case of different cultures gents.



So you don't get to see commercials with law firms stating " If you have had a medical procedure using "X" and experienced "Y" we can get you money! Call ****bag & ****bag law firm today at 555-WE GET CASH!!!!!


----------



## Palladium (Nov 14, 2015)

Sorry i thought that was a question related to American health care.
When you give something away for FREE, which it isn't, it has no value or incentive any more like it would with a free market type system. It's not the free market that is failing us, it's the governments nose in it!

It's like education here in the states. You give everybody free education ( college ) and all the sudden it has no real value in society. The schools hand out degrees like candy so they can get that federal money. Ask all the people with college degrees making dam near minimum wage how all that student debt worked out for them. Or shall i say how all that debt worked out for me and you to pay!

Not to be political, but look at the mindset of today's youth.
People should be mad at the government and not all this hating on free market principals.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e50fQLyebI[/youtube]


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 14, 2015)

4metals said:


> > I think it's simply a case of different cultures gents.
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't get to see commercials with law firms stating " If you have had a medical procedure using "X" and experienced "Y" we can get you money! Call ****bag & ****bag law firm today at 555-WE GET CASH!!!!!



Extremely rarely. The closest we have got to that so far is the scandal with the dodgy breast implants, and it shows how rare they are simply because I can remember it. 

The ones that spring to mind here are more on the lines of compensation claims for working with asbestos, mining machinery (white finger,) and hearing problems. Most campaigns tend to centre around work related illnesses or accidents both in the workplace or in the street (like tripping over a badly fitted flagstone.)

With regards to Ralph's post. We have had this healthcare system since the 1950s. It certainly isn't perfect however it provides a level playing field across the whole country. You can choose to pay for insurance (as I do) or not but either way if you are ill you are going to be treated (edit: treated to exactly the same standards) regardless of your financial position. 

We have recently begun charging tuition fees for higher education. That's degree level education, I'm not sure but is that what you guys call College education?


----------



## 4metals (Nov 14, 2015)

So what were that young ladies credentials to be on the televised interview? Leave it to FOX to find the worst of the worst and put her up there to make a fool of herself!

Unfortunately a lot of people employed here in the US who get healthcare as part of their condition of employment seem to think that it is "free" and only those who pay to pick it up on their own really get to realize the actual cost. Those who get healthcare with the job never seem to care how many tests a doctor wants or what medications are prescribed. I would suspect in a scenario with a one payer system where everyone is covered that would still exist.


----------



## g_axelsson (Nov 14, 2015)

Here in Sweden we also have a high tax burden but I'm happy to pay it and wouldn't want to change to the US system.

My mother got cancer 15 years ago. She got good care, free treatment (chemicals and radiation treatment) and checkups every six month for ten years. She recovered without any problems.
The cost? I don't know but in the end I guess a couple of hundred dollars. She even got her travels refunded as a part of the public health insurance in Sweden.

We all get sick and we all need medical care sooner or later. Maybe the government isn't the best on making an effective organization but at least there is no profit skimmed off the system. No insurance companies either and virtually no malpractice suits.
In 2000 Sweden had only about one tenth of the number of lawyers per capita compared to USA.

I've never heard anyone ever leaving their house because of medical bills here.

Found this diagram when researching...





(Source : http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries/ )

Oh.. Scrap steel $2.5 per 100 pound two weeks ago and copper $1,62 per pound four days ago while unleaded is roughly $6.30 per gallon.

Göran


----------



## 4metals (Nov 14, 2015)

> You can choose to pay for insurance (as I do) or not but either way if you are ill you are going to be treated (edit: treated to exactly the same standards) regardless of your financial position.



So if you get nothing for paying, why do you pay for insurance? Surely I'm missing something here!


----------



## g_axelsson (Nov 14, 2015)

You can get a private health insurance in Sweden too, it will give you treatment in a private facility in a shorter time span than the public health care system where there are queues sometimes and for certain procedures. But the level of treatment is basically the same.

Göran


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 14, 2015)

Nice graph Goran.

Effectively the US system is waaaayyy different to the rest and far far more expensive overall.

Yes your private health insurance provides the same kind of benefits as ours.


----------



## 4metals (Nov 14, 2015)

And the cost for private insurance?

For example here in the good old USA my wife and I get to pay a premium of just under $1200 a month for coverage, plus we have a $3,000 per person deductible after which insurance pays 80% and after $10,000 spent, insurance picks up 100%. And the deductible resets every calendar year.

In real terms after co-pays and prescriptions we spend over $20,000 a year for insurance. Thats for two semi old people! Hate to think what it will become when we're very old!


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 14, 2015)

4metals said:


> So what were that young ladies credentials to be on the televised interview? Leave it to FOX to find the worst of the worst and put her up there to make a fool of herself!



From what I have seen of Fox I would have to agree with you. Bill O'Rielly makes me want to reach into the screen and punch him.

4metals I am a 48 year old smoker and I pay $140 per month for worldwide coverage. I'll duck and await the flak and cussing shall I ? 8)


----------



## 4metals (Nov 14, 2015)

> 4metals I am a 48 year old smoker and I pay $140 per month for worldwide coverage. I'll duck and await the flak and cussing shall I ? 8)



Well I'm a 64 year old non drinker, non smoker as is my wife, and we are both active and healthy. Amazing how much money is wasted to make the rich richer.


----------



## Geo (Nov 14, 2015)

Try relying on medicare or Medicaid.


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 14, 2015)

4metals said:


> > 4metals I am a 48 year old smoker and I pay $140 per month for worldwide coverage. I'll duck and await the flak and cussing shall I ?  8)
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm a 64 year old non drinker, non smoker as is my wife, and we are both active and healthy. *Amazing how much money is wasted to make the rich richer*.



Were you referring to the higher premiums you pay?


----------



## Palladium (Nov 14, 2015)

I'll agree with it provides a somewhat level playing field. It's all the society over there knows so it only has the standards of today to judge it's accomplishments on. Health care is not a problem as far as i can tell here in the U.S. besides them destroying it. Before everybody jumps on me let me explain in what rearguards i make that statement. I mean by that the government makes out like people are dying on the streets because the big bad for profit system is letting them die in the parking lots of the hospitals or die in the streets. True if your a veteran of the VA, that's true government health care for you! True free market health care is not the greatest by today's standards, but even if your the poorest of the poor here in this country you can get free treatment. That was made possible by the generosity of many organizations which have all but been put down by government regulations. Ask the little sisters of the poor? When i had my cancer back in 05 i didn't have insurance or the means to pay for the health care i needed. It was through the generosity of the medical establishment where i was diagnosed that i received the treatment that would later lead to saving my life. Those people treated me just as good if not better than they would someone with top rate insurance. There was no discrimination because of my status or income level. Hell, i think they felt more pity for me than they did the rich man. I went here recently for a check up and i can rest assure you that what i observed in today's age has changed dramatically! Now the first question is not "how may we help you", but "do you have insurance" and if you don't they send what i will call a salesman out to quote: "see what programs you qualify for". They have taken the word health care out of the health care system like they have taken the word justice out of the criminal justice system.

It's not about Fox! It's about the mindset of today's youth or tomorrows leaders shall we say. That's not an isolated example either. You can look everywhere and see examples. If people weren't thinking that way then Bernie Sanders wouldn't be a presidential contender. It's all socialistic thinking that the government can run you life better than you can and you NEED them to show you the path to the land of milk and honey for everyone. I to am not against free social programs of any sort, i'm all for it! But what they are doing is not in the public's best interest as much as it is in the interest of " Special interest " or agendas.


----------



## 4metals (Nov 14, 2015)

4metals said:


> Amazing how much money is wasted to make the rich richer.





spaceships said:


> Were you referring to the higher premiums you pay?


Well if what Dave said,


frugalrefiner said:


> The biggest expense for any medical practice isn't the doctors' salaries, it's malpractice insurance. It accounted for about 35% of the total costs


Is true, and I don't doubt for a minute that it isn't, the higher premiums benefit the lawyers and the legal system which here in the US is mysteriously dominated by.........lawyers!!!! Go figure.


----------



## 4metals (Nov 14, 2015)

Ralph,

I don't have much issue with having the insurance private, I do have issue with paying 35% more than it costs for health care. I also mind that a doctor will charge one price from someone without insurance and accept a fraction of that as payment from an insurance company. It's kind of amazing to me that auto mechanics have a book that serves any mechanical malfunction that can possibly exist and lists the cost of repair. (Or at least the time to repair it) Why can't health care have the same list? Medicare uses it, and insurance companies use it, but individuals pay as much as they can squeeze out of you. 

Trouble is health insurance is a necessity today, why the health insurance industry is allowed to operate as a for profit business is amazing to me. That tacks on another 15% on top of everything else. It's a necessity, and as such it should only be allowed to charge a set profit over its cost. (And a lobbyist shouldn't be able to suggest what that profit over cost is!)

Interestingly Goran said he doesn't recall hearing of anyone being put out of their home for medical expenses in Sweden. I personally know 2 people here in the US that were. And they had insurance.


----------



## patnor1011 (Nov 14, 2015)

Private health insurance in Ireland will get you access to private hospitals or as it was mentioned you can jump queue for some treatment or procedures. Also nice one bed room with big TV in hospital. I do not own one, but when I had my rough time few years back I was in such a bad shape that my consultant put me in private room anyway, I did not had to pay anything for that. I also still do have direct access to him and can jump queue if I feel bad. It probably also depend on your doctor, perhaps compassion I do not know. 
There is also free health care in Ireland, poor or people with small income do have access to totally free health care where they just pay like 50c for an item on prescription. System may not be perfect - high fees charged by advisers and management, waiting lists.... but it works. 
Well, I do not want to get to politics but few cuts in military spending can provide all necessary health care for people who need it. At the end of the day it is their money why not to allocate it differently than they are being spent now.


----------



## solar_plasma (Nov 14, 2015)

Say what you want and I might be wrong... If I had to choose I'd rather like to be poor in Germany, than to be poor in the USA :lol: on the the other side, IF I had to be poor in the states, I would disappear into those incredibly large forrests, prairies and canyons and would never be seen again by any human :mrgreen:


----------



## Shark (Nov 14, 2015)

My vascular surgeon recently told me that 40% of his income went for malpractice insurance. I was also told very near those same figures for a ENT doctor (ear/nose/throat specialist). I ask my heart surgeon but he declined to give a specific number, but he did state that it was a large part of his income. My cardiologist isn't social enough to discuss things of that nature. Since January 2015 my insurance has paid out well over $400,000 in medical bills on me alone, and that does not count for any medications or doctor visits my wife had. Insurance can be a good thing, but we have now been informed that our current insurance will be going up 400% by the end of this year. We can either keep it (not likely at that cost) or go with a lower grade of insurance that will cover about 30% less than our current coverage.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Nov 14, 2015)

Palladium, I've been struggling with a response to some of your statements because you've made it so political. You blame the government for destroying a system you believe is not a problem. 

I worked inside the system for 20 years, including physicians' offices and hospitals. People do die on the streets and in parking lots because they lack insurance, or at least they did before many of the changes that were mandated by the government. Before anti dumping regulations, countless patients died during, or as a result of, being transported from private care settings to government supported facilities before they were stabilized. 

Yes, the poorest of the poor could get care, but don't believe for a moment that it was of the same level as someone with good insurance. 

I don't know where you were treated for your cancer, but unless it was a purely charity based facility, if you were uninsured, it was those who *were* insured that paid for your care. It's known as cost shifting. Those with insurance, or the means to pay for their care, paid higher charges to help pay for those without insurance. The government you vilify has numerous programs that help pay for the "uncompensated care" rendered to uninsured patients. I know this because part of my job was to analyze uncompensated care we provided to get our piece of those pies.

Again, I don't know where you went 10 years ago, but when I left the business in 2006, NO ONE was treated without being asked for their insurance information unless they were found down or brought in by ambulance with severe trauma. The system has worked that way for decades.

I respect your right to your opinions and beliefs, but in some ways, they're similar to some statements made by new members who've seen a few youtube videos and think they understand refining. They believe their statements are correct, but those of us who've been deeply involved for years can see the errors in their beliefs. 

I'm not going to address some of your other comments, because it will just lead to a discussion of politics, and I'm sworn to prevent that on this forum.

Dave


----------



## Palladium (Nov 14, 2015)

I didn't say someone else didn't pay for my health care. I also said i don't have a problem with SOME socialist programs, and yes that's what they are. I didn't say i wasn't ask about insurance, but back then my financial standing was secondary to my access to health care, now the first question is about money and not health care. So by my understanding because my beliefs or experiences may be different then others I'm not entitled to that view or can't express it? That in and of itself is political. Stating ones view about the world we live in or our experiences is not political, but realistic. There were no condemnations of others thoughts or beliefs, only those of personal observations from different people in different cultures and parts of the world. True our views may be different, but discussing differences is how people come to compromise or become educated. I don't blame the government for destroying a system that has problems. It was doing a slow but methodical job of that itself, but in free market that will correct itself. Everything has problems and nothing is perfect. What i am saying is if you think the government is the answer to fixing your problems with ANY system then you are very much in need of education. Don't take it from me. You only have to look to history for the proof! Special interest and agendas are you enemy which are a product of government intervention on their behalf and not the free market.


----------



## 4metals (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm not really sure a free market would help the system in the US. It has been a free market and all of the big players, the insurance companies worked together to make a system that benefits them more than it benefits the users of the system. 

When big business is involved and huge profit potentials exist, free market goes out the window. As much as I think government should stay out of it, there comes a time when government should get involved to set limits or regulate the industry. Set boundaries so the big business cannot shave the consumer. 

In the US we pay more for health care and even internet than most of the world, for what is for most of us, mediocre service at high prices.


----------



## butcher (Nov 14, 2015)

With the world's systems based on greed, for power, control, money, or wealth... it makes us all sick unhealthy, and poor.
How can a system based on greed help us get healthy or help us stay healthy. with it we all die with our poor souls still owing the bill. Heck we even have to pay for that death, or our family's go to the poor house paying for it.
Nothing is free at some point we all have to pay the Piper.


----------



## Smack (Nov 15, 2015)

Butcher are you implying that debt gets passed on to family? The only way a debtor/lender can get paid is from an estate, if there is not enough equity or value in the estate to satisfy the debt, the lender writes it off as a loss and the estate becomes insolvent, debt can not be passed on to family members, aka Inheriting Debt. If there is a married couple the spouse would assume the debts though.


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 15, 2015)

Not that I don't like what y'all are talking about but I think it has run off topic. Can this be split up please.


----------



## Harold_V (Nov 15, 2015)

Palladium said:


> So by my understanding because my beliefs or experiences may be different then others I'm not entitled to that view or can't express it?


Depends. 

Express all manner of views so long as they revolve around the topic of refining. 

If you value your membership on this board, that's right. You *SHOULDN'T* discuss it, as it is beyond the scope of this board, and violates one of the rules that typically leads to banishment, that of discussing politics. Such discussions tend to divide the board, creating acrimony that takes energy away from the topics at hand, the refining of precious metals.

There are certain rights that must be used with necessary caution. For example, one's "right" to free speech does NOT extend to crying "fire" in a packed theater when there is no fire. You, or anyone here, has a right to their chosen opinions, but the right to express them does not extend to doing so on this (privately owned) board. 

It is my advice that this topic come to an abrupt end. 

I trust you get my drift. 

Harold


----------



## CBentre (Nov 26, 2015)

Geo just wanted to respond to the orginal topic. Shred / steel is at a 8 year low. It looks like it's still gonna dip a little more . Last year China was making billets and sending it to N.America cheaper then we can recycle and process shredded scrap steel. Basically flooding the market and leaving a lot of yards with large quantities that were over paid for. Now a lot of yards are selling just for cash flow. Not much anyone can do at this point but try to weather the storm. My personal opinion is we won't see much of a change until the next presidential election but that's just speculation based on previous data. People have to be a lot smarter with their money over the few months or so. There is a lot more going on it the commodity markets to discuss here and a lot of it would almost be a breach of forum rules so I can't go into too much depth here. 

Hope all is well Geo .......


----------



## Geo (Nov 26, 2015)

Thank you, doing as well as can be expected.I went to my pulmonologist a couple of weeks ago for my annual sleep study. My pressure settings on my bipap went down, way down. It's an indication that my overall lung function is improving. Hopefully I will get to where I do not need it at all. My doctor is pleased with my progress. They did an ECG on my heart and neck. My heart was a little enlarged but nothing to worry about but the carotid artery on the right side of my neck is 64% blocked. He said it was mild right now and we may be able to improve it with a modified diet and cholesterol meds. I go back next week for a PFT and recommendations about a cardiologist.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Nov 26, 2015)

Geo said:


> He said it was mild right now and we may be able to improve it with a modified diet and cholesterol meds.


Oatmeal! Be careful about the meds - they can have some nasty side effects.

Dave


----------



## Shark (Nov 26, 2015)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > He said it was mild right now and we may be able to improve it with a modified diet and cholesterol meds.
> ...




Geo,
Those side effects can be a lot worse than the disease. I had some serious reaction to a couple of antibiotic's as well as blood pressure drugs and they made me miserable as well as those around me. It also played a big part in why I had so little to say on the forums these past months, I knew if I couldn't stand myself, no one else could either. Things are settling down now, but it is still a day to day thing for me. Eat your oatmeal, and take care of yourself. You really don't want to go through some of things I have this past year.


----------



## kurtak (Nov 27, 2015)

CBentre said:


> Geo just wanted to respond to the orginal topic. Shred / steel is at a 8 year low. It looks like it's still gonna dip a little more . quote]
> 
> A few weeks ago I had the owner of one scrap yard I deal with tell me that if sheet iron (often referred to as tin) goes much lower he is going to have start charging costumers to take it
> 
> ...


----------



## CBentre (Nov 27, 2015)

Unfortunately it's a sad reality. Yards around here are currently at around $40.00 Canadian a net ton . (2000 lbs) That's what peddlers off the street would be getting to bring in. Most guys can't get out of bed for that. Off topic but I was reading an article last week regarding oil prices and Sudai Arabia openly admitted they will continue to pump oil to try and force all the non efficient companies around the world out of business. knowing they are putting their own country into debt by doing so. Almost seemed like we have the same type of situation going on in the metal industry without pointing fingers at anyone.


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 27, 2015)

kurtak said:


> CBentre said:
> 
> 
> > Geo just wanted to respond to the orginal topic. Shred / steel is at a 8 year low. It looks like it's still gonna dip a little more .
> ...



What he should be doing is buying as much as possible at low prices and holding it until they go up again. This happened 8 or so years ago, and within a year it had bounced from £20 per tonne to £90 per tonne. 

A couple of thousand tonnes would give a scrap yard a return over 12 months that would beat most other legal investments. The daft thing is that people often can't see past tomorrow and they miss the opportunity because of that.


----------



## CBentre (Nov 28, 2015)

That does hold some merit but there's a lot of variables. If you have the money and can afford to sit on it you could possibly pull it off. Either way it's a gamble . There is no guarantee prices will bounce back. If countries can manipulate the markets so they are the only players and get away with it then it will still continue to be a challenge for most N.American companies.


----------



## patnor1011 (Nov 28, 2015)

We do have recession for like 8 years now with no sign of improving. It rather look that whatever was done last 8 years was just kicking the can down the road. Who knows for how long it will be possible to kick it further and when it hit the wall finally. Anyone who think that financial crisis which started in 2008 is over is deluding himself. Things need to get to real bottom to start improving.


----------



## Grelko (Nov 28, 2015)

patnor1011 said:


> Things need to get to real bottom to start improving.



The only thing is, where exactly IS the bottom? What are the chances of seeing silver around $4 and gold near $300, like back in 2000/2001?

I'd slowly start investing in all sorts of things right now, while the prices are still low. However, I do feel that prices will drop a bit more, so I wouldn't go TOO overboard with it. I'd have to say, if you have the room/money to hang onto your aluminum, copper, or buy some silver, gold etc, start saving up.

Gas prices are still decent around here "about $2.35/gallon", but it's getting to be ALMOST LITERALLY 1 house per block, that's up for sale in my area right now.

I'm not sure if some of the scrapyards near me, even know what's going on right now either. One place is offering 35/Nton, another is at 50/Gton ($44.64/Nton) for shredder "clean tin is higher", copper #1 at 1.55 here, and 1.80 there. You really need to keep track of all of them. I went to 3 different yards in a single trip about a week ago. I spent about $3.50 more on gas, but made an extra $20, so I'm not complaining.


----------



## patnor1011 (Nov 28, 2015)

Bottom will not reflect itself in low price of gold or silver. I meant something like end of couple of too big to fail financial institutions and chaos what will come with that. Every scam comes to an end at some stage.


----------



## rickbb (Nov 30, 2015)

Geo said:


> For anyone that is holding non-precious metals, do not sell unless you absolutely have to. I sold a small list of metals yesterday to check prices. Shredder steel - $2.00 per hundred pounds. In May, it was $12 per hundred. #2 copper - $1.60 per pound. Aluminum - $.32 per pound. Yellow brass - $.95 per pound.
> 
> Regular unleaded $1.85 per gallon on the up side though.



When I first started doing this as a hobby I came across some thick sheet copper and since copper was going for $3 a lb. I thought I better hang onto this. Now I'm making yard/garden art out of it since copper is now less than a buck a pound.

Who knows, maybe soon they will go back to making pennies out of all copper instead of the copper clad base metal they use now.


----------



## Grelko (Nov 30, 2015)

rickbb said:


> When I first started doing this as a hobby I came across some thick sheet copper and since copper was going for $3 a lb. I thought I better hang onto this. Now I'm making yard/garden art out of it since copper is now less than a buck a pound.



Buy copper now that it's low, make yard/garden art, sell them for $10-$20 or more each 8) 

There's a couple people at the huge yardsale/market over at Rogers Ohio, that make all sorts of things from old soda/beer cans, like windmills, mobiles, bird baths etc. They seem to sell quite a few of them.

A guy that lives up the road a few miles, gets old pallets, salvages the good pieces of wood/nails and makes bird houses from them.
Another one, gets old furniture "recliners, dressers etc." off the curb, reupholsters it and sells them out of his garage. The next town over, a guy rebuilds washers/dryers and sells out of his garage. 

They all seem to make a decent living from it, but I haven't bothered to ask if they had another job. Might just be a hobby.


----------



## Geo (Dec 1, 2015)

Commodity prices is still in a downward spiral. Gasoline is expected to drop to $1 per gallon in a few months. It will take time for people who buy by weight to realize that prices are not going to rebound and what they paid so much for is now only worth pennies on a dollar. In a few months, you should be able to buy any kind of scrap metal dirt cheap. I can't for the life of me understand how gold has held up this long. There must still be people buying big chunks of gold out there somewhere to keep supporting the gold prices as they are. When commodity prices drop, production slows down. You can see this by looking at mining products. Mines are cutting back and even some are closing production. This will have a negative effect on stored stocks of raw metals. It just takes longer for the price to drop on a loaf of bread because it is much farther down the chain of supply and demand. How much does a loaf of bread cost to produce? You must plant the seed, harvest the grain, process the flour, bake the bread, package and ship to the market. Not counting on all of the raw materials to make all of the equipment and just count fuel. Every step uses fuel. As the fuel cost drops, production cost drops. The companies can only make that kind of windfall for a short period of time before they lower the price of their product or another company will just start producing the same product at a much lower cost.


----------



## Smack (Dec 1, 2015)

I took a load in today, the guy that runs the non-ferrous scale said "You shouldn't bring that stuff in right now", I was like "What?" then proceeded to give him some S. The guy lives a 1/4 mile from me. I said "Look Larry, even though price may not be at a premium, space always is". Needless to say, it was ugly at the cash machine.

While I was there I looked over the circuit boards they have been taking in for get this, 20 cents a pound. You should have seen all the finger cards, memory and pocs in it.


----------



## Anonymous (Dec 1, 2015)

Lol so buy it at $25 per pound 8) 8)

edit- SORRY I meant $0.25 per pound.


----------



## upcyclist (Dec 1, 2015)

Smack said:


> I said "Look Larry, even though price may not be at a premium, space always is".



Hahaha--ain't that the truth!


----------



## Pantherlikher (Dec 1, 2015)

The small town scrap yard here is a penny/ lb. for light steel and the rest is crap as well. But clipping Christmas lights is still free for me so.
They buy circuit boards for about 15 cents/ lb. Does not matter what it is, same price so I cherry pick which takes forever since wires pay more and takes a lot of my time...

As well as repairing everything around the house.... Even the 4 kids... 
I'd hurt the guy responsible for building the houses around here. Everything I look at already needs to be fixed. And it was built in the late 8o's...Should last a little longer. Or at least been built to code... The builder is not even allowed to build a dog house around here now but it's way to late now...

On a positive note here:
After throwing $1,000 into it, I finally got the coal heater running nice for winter... Except for the back draft effect from having the chimney outside... Tough 1 there but still learning how to...


B.S.
...Take what you can get because space and comfort costs more...


----------



## CBentre (Dec 1, 2015)

Country's such as Sweeden and China are still stock piling gold Geo. Russia was buying large amounts last year as well. Not sure if they continued purchasing after the U.S. put sanctions on them or not . I do know they have their hands full right now with oil prices.


----------

