# How much aqua regia per oz of plated scrap jewelry?



## kadriver (Oct 26, 2010)

I am getting ready to refine my first batch to 999 from some gold plated jewelry. I also have some gold plated silverware with base metal that looks like cast iron. I will do the plated jewelry first by itself. Then some of the gold plated silverware.

I will be using an older heavy pyrex coffee pot with a glass lid. I have cut the gold plated jewelry up into small 1/8 to 1/4 inch pieces. There is about 300 grams of material.

I have several questions for some of you more experieced refiners out there.

1) how much aqua regia should I use for this batch of 300 grams of gold plated material? Can I just add the AR and cook it like you would with SOLID scrap jewelry? (SOLID meaning 10k, 14k, that is not plated).

2) OR, should I add nitric acid alone first to dissolve all the base metal? Then neutralize with urea, filter, wash and rinse. Then dissolve the gold left over with AR and proceed from there?

Hope I have not been too ambiguous.
Thank You! - KLS


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## nickvc (Oct 26, 2010)

I suggest you read Hoke before you even start this!
In plated jewellery your going to find all sorts of metals that will cause real problems including tin and lead, these will give you severe headaches trying to recover your values and you will be lucky to get 90% Au let alone 999. 
Hoke is available as a free download here on the forum and I really think you should study it before you start your experiment so that your equipped to sort out these problems or at least be aware of potential problems and solutions to them.
This isn't a dig at you but I hope a timely warning so you avoid problems.
Nick.


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## goldenchild (Oct 26, 2010)

The material you have in that jar actually looks like it could be gold filled but for the purposes of your question I will treat it as plated scrap. First let me tell you that 300 grams of plated material wont yeild much gold. So little in fact that I would not recommend going to AR first as you might lose the gold in the shuffle. 

I also wouldnt use straight nitric as it would be a waste for such a small amount of gold. I would suggest you build a stripping cell and use that. Wait until you've stripped enough material to make it worth harvesting from your cell. Do you plan on plated material being your primary source of gold?

Lastly, if you're sure some of the material you have is gold over silver, you should use straight nitric on it . This way you will dissolve the silver and leave behind the gold plating for seperate processing. As nickvc suggested, read Hoke before even attempting this as the questions you asked are pretty basic things in this great hobby we call refining


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## kadriver (Oct 26, 2010)

Thank you. I don't want to waste my chemicals. I will read Hoke, where can I find it and what is it. Thanks for your input.

I plan on refining mostly SOLID scrap 10k 14k 18k. The plated jewelry is some I have been accumulating and was going to try the process on this.

I am not going to do anything until I have studied all I can.

Using a stripping cell sounds interesting, I would like more information on that process.

Thanks again and don't worry, I take critical input well.
- KLS


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## nickvc (Oct 26, 2010)

Use the search function for any information you want.
C.M.Hoke is tagged onto the signature line of several members and moderators,it really is the bible for refining ,it's old and written by a woman but gives you the basics in an easily understandable way even I can understand it :lol:


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 26, 2010)

Plated costume jewelry is almost worthless unless you have a lot of it. It is usually worth from 5 to 10 cents per square inch of gold plated area. There is some that can be worth about 20 times more, but it is usually marked HGE, Karatclad, etc.

In any case, you don't want to use aqua regia to dissolve everything. You'll end up with so much metals solution that the small amount of gold can easily get get lost in the shuffle. You're much better off first dissolving only the base metals and then removing the solution and dissolving the gold residue in aqua regia or HCl/bleach. Lazersteve has several short videos on his website that explain how to dissolve the base metals using inexpensive muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide. He also sells an excellent, inexpensive, more complete DVD on the subject, I believe. You can also use nitric acid to dissolve only the base metals but it's a lot more expensive.

http://goldrecovery.us/


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## goldenchild (Oct 26, 2010)

kadriver said:


> Thank you. I don't want to waste my chemicals. I will read Hoke, where can I find it and what is it. Thanks for your input.
> 
> I plan on refining mostly SOLID scrap 10k 14k 18k. The plated jewelry is some I have been accumulating and was going to try the process on this.
> 
> ...



I didnt mean to be hypercritical but just informative. You will find however, that we will gladly give you a kick in the @$$ if we feel you are going in the wrong direction. Especially when safety is an issue. Its for the good of you and anyone else reading these posts. Welcome to the forum.



goldsilverpro said:


> You'll end up with so much metals solution that the small amount of gold can easily get get lost in the shuffle.



I said the same thing. What exactly _is_ the shuffle? :lol:


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## goldsilverpro (Oct 26, 2010)

> I said the same thing. What exactly is the shuffle?


Sorry, goldenchild, I really didn't see that you had said the same thing before I posted, Great minds work together, I guess.


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## kadriver (Oct 27, 2010)

Hello: Thanks to you people, I think I just saved myself some grief and some money. I have put off the idea of trying to refine this jar of plated scrap jewelry. I will save it for later on down the line after i have some experience and more knowlege - I found the Hoke book at my public library. 

This is a wonderful forum - keep it up - WOW!
KLS


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## butcher (Oct 28, 2010)

kadriver, that is a wise decision, taking time to learn will save you money, time and trouble, and possibly your health. the gold will still be there and you will have an education of how to get it.


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## patnor1011 (Oct 28, 2010)

Hokes book is in my signature for download. You will not loose anything even purchasing hard copy as this book is a must have for anybody who want to refine gold.


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## Texas (Oct 29, 2010)

C.M.Hoke is tagged onto the signature line of several members and moderators,it really is the bible for refining ,it's old and written by a woman but gives you the basics in an easily understandable way even I can understand it :lol:



sorry my question, not wanting to sound sexist, but Hoke was a woman?
oh! the reason is book is so simple and easy to understand ... Thanks for your legacy Hoke ... Thanks for your legacy Hoke


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## Palladium (Nov 25, 2010)

Texas said:


> sorry my question, not wanting to sound sexist, but Hoke was a woman?



Yes !


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## Palladium (Nov 25, 2010)

Palladium said:


> Texas said:
> 
> 
> > sorry my question, not wanting to sound sexist, but Hoke was a woman?
> ...



I've spent the last hour or two researching who she is and where she came from, even her kin folks. Does anyone know what her whole name is? What year she was born? Guess what famous person she was related to who invented a torch? I'm trying to chase down the family tree and see how interesting this story can get. 8)


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## Harold_V (Nov 25, 2010)

It is rather interesting that Hoke was a woman, but, aside from her suggestion to use gasoline for incineration, she didn't miss a lick in that book. What she teaches will serve anyone perfectly well, assuming their interest is in ending up with fine gold. She doesn't treat silver with much interest, due in part to its relatively low value at the time, but even silver should be addressed with respect, especially if it is used for inquartation. When it is, it becomes the carrier of platinum and palladium, both of which are found in dental gold, and to a lesser degree, in jewelry. 

Where her book shines brightest is in teaching how to test. A person that can't test is subject to making poor purchases and likely to discard values unnecessarily. 

I admonish readers to read Hoke, in spite of how much they may think they know. Read her book until it makes sense. It will serve you better than any one other source of information. As you progress in your refining skills, it will become apparent just how valuable she was to the small time refiner. Remember, it was illegal for residents of the US to refine without a federal license, until January of 1975------so there was little incentive for anyone to publish on the subject. I expect it was not a big profit maker for her. Her reward, like that of most artists, comes well after her passing. 

I note the post above mine----her father was the man after which the Hoke torch was named. He was a well known authority on platinum in his day. I know little more. 

If memory serves, the C in her name stands for Comfort. Strange name. 

I stand corrected on her name, which is Calm. Thanks, GSP & jimdoc. 

There is precious little information available on the Hoke family. 

Harold


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## jimdoc (Nov 25, 2010)

This is what i found;

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=7947&p=74473&hilit=hoke#p74473

Calm Morrison Hoke


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 25, 2010)

Her name is Calm Morrison Hoke.

http://books.google.com/books?id=mpxTAAAAMAAJ&q=calm+morrison+hoke&dq=calm+morrison+hoke&hl=en&ei=p8LuTOGnOMP_lgfNjdGsDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&tbo=1&tbs=bks%3A1%2Clr%3Aall&q=%22calm+morrison+hoke%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=


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## Palladium (Nov 25, 2010)

http://genforum.genealogy.com/hoke/messages/682.html

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1438999.pdf

http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&Search_Arg=c+m+hoke&Search_Code=GKEY%5E*&CNT=100&hist=1&type=quick

http://cabinetcardgallery.wordpress.com/category/photographer-morrison/


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 25, 2010)

Someone recently gave a link with a photo of her. I think it was in Google Books.


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## jimdoc (Nov 25, 2010)

http://books.google.com/books?id=9VJIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA53&dq=cm+hoke&hl=en&ei=0OOgTO2-FoL_8AbKrcSDAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFYQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=cm%20hoke&f=false


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## qst42know (Nov 25, 2010)

So you think she's holding a bouquet to cover the purple stains on her hands?


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 25, 2010)

OOHHHH that's cold. 8) 

She is kind of cute, and built like a brick #$&% house... :lol: 

They even mention the number of teats on animals and why they are necessary, ahh the hogs come home to roost.


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## necromancer (Jun 27, 2014)

bumping for the info on hoke


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## Richard NL (Oct 2, 2016)

necromancer said:


> bumping for the info on hoke


Her father's company ?
http://www.hoke.com/about.html
Timeline is empty


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## jimdoc (Oct 2, 2016)

Spam link above that has been overlooked;
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8208#p79076


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## justinhcase (Oct 2, 2016)

Richard NL said:


> necromancer said:
> 
> 
> > bumping for the info on hoke
> ...


I think that is the wrong Hoke. :roll: 
Might be useful if any one needs "a Manufacturer of Precision Fluid Control Solutions"
But unless it was started by a distant relative of some description I can not see a direct connection to our beloved patron Ms Hoke.


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## 4metals (Oct 2, 2016)

I do believe the Hoke torch, which was invented by her father for melting Platinum, was what got her involved in the jewelry industry to begin with. 

The company in the link may or may not be associated.


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## Richard NL (Oct 3, 2016)

justinhcase said:


> But unless it was started by a distant relative of some description I can not see a direct connection to our beloved patron Ms Hoke.


I can see a direct connection: same name and a timeline dating back to 1925.
http://www.hoke.com/about.html


I've got it:
According to this website, it is indeed the same company.
http://www.petropages.com/directory/supplier/hoke-incorporated

Double-check whether this is the real firm.(in the article no second Hoke inc.in the article)
https://goo.gl/yxr8z5

Have a nice day.


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## g_axelsson (Oct 4, 2016)

The information I have found so far on miss Hoke...
http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/Calm_Morrison_Hoke#Publications

Göran


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## Richard NL (Oct 4, 2016)

Nice article and picture of miss hoke.

https://www.scribd.com/document/326359916/The-Brooklyn-Daily-Eagle-Sun-Aug-21-1927 / 

https://bklyn.newspapers.com/image/59847133 /


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## FrugalRefiner (Oct 4, 2016)

Nice find Richard.

Dave


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## Richard NL (Oct 4, 2016)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Nice find Richard.
> 
> Dave


Thank you.

Göran,
Appearances in the press http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/Hoke
Thank you.

More publications from Calm Morrison Hoke:
Testing precious metals with the touchstone, C M Hoke 1932.
Something New—Aluminum Jewelry, C M Hoke 1932. http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=20913

The source of this information:
http://www.worldcat.org/wcidentities/lccn-n87831063


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## Richard NL (Feb 5, 2017)

Another little find, From C.M. Hoke: "The jeweler tests his metals." July/August 1935.

https://www.scribd.com/document/338482052/Hoke-The-jewler-test-his-metals-July-August-1935
/
https://www.docdroid.net/vbVxgyS/hoke-gems-gemology-july-aug-193515-32.pdf.html


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 5, 2017)

Another nice little find Richard. 8) 

Dave


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## g_axelsson (Feb 5, 2017)

Thanks! I've added it to the wiki page. Now, if we just could find "Testing Precious Metals with the Touchstone, Jewelers Technical Advice Company, 1932".

 

Göran


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## Topher_osAUrus (Feb 6, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> Thanks! I've added it to the wiki page. Now, if we just could find "Testing Precious Metals with the Touchstone, Jewelers Technical Advice Company, 1932".
> 
> 
> 
> Göran


Is this what you are looking for?View attachment Hoke Gems Gemology July-Aug_1935.15-32.pdf

It is, actually, Hoke testing with a touchstone. Which was featured in "gems, gemology"

-nevermind, it is actually identical to richards find above.  

There was also a pdf entitled "metal finishing" where hoke was one of the authors. It gives a bio of her 40 or 50 pages in.. But, its too large and I cannot upload it. For anyone with interest, search google books for "metal_finishing.pdf hoke" and google books will bring it up.

Truly remarkable woman..


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## Richard NL (Feb 27, 2017)

Topher_osAUrus said:


> Is this what you are looking for?Hoke Gems Gemology July-Aug_1935.15-32.pdf
> It is, actually, Hoke testing with a touchstone. Which was featured in "gems, gemology"
> 
> -nevermind, it is actually identical to richards find above.


Actually i think it is not: Testing Precious Metals with the Touchstone. C.M.Hoke (Brass World,1932,28,92-93).— Explains the principles of touchstone testing of precious metals and describes the preparation of the aqua regia, precautions to be taken in testing of silver articles.
Page 25 https://goo.gl/XmgrBZ

And actually, this is not my find, it is the one i uploaded!
The top one is the one I did find. https://goo.gl/SBDngd
It starts at pages 15.
So to shorten it I removed the first 14 pages, and did want to remove pages 19 to 32.
Because we had to go to ballroom dancing lessons I was out of time, and not able to delete these last pages.



Topher_osAUrus said:


> There was also a pdf entitled "metal finishing" where hoke was one of the authors. It gives a bio of her 40 or 50 pages in.. But, its too large and I cannot upload it. For anyone with interest, search google books for "metal_finishing.pdf hoke" and google books will bring it up.


Sorry I can not find it.
You can uploaded here: https://www.docdroid.net/
If it fails try this: https://goo.gl/mv67av
Or this one: https://goo.gl/nUO0um

And a request to a moderator to split/move the tread.
It makes it easier to find stuff. :lol:


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