# Silver Shot - A New Experiment



## kadriver (Mar 2, 2013)

I had some cement silver that I was getting ready to cast into anode bars for my silver cell.

But instead I decided to try and make some silver shot.

I drilled a 1/8 hole in a melt dish and suspended it over a large stainless soup pot full of cold water.

I added a submersible pump to circulate the water as I poured the shot through the hole in the melt dish.

I also added some ice just before I poured the molten silver.

I should have glazed the shot dish with borax before I started, but my Anheusers kicked in and I forgot to do it.

I rinsed it real good with distilled water then dried over low heat to remove any dissolved chlorides (chlorine).

The hole plugged up a couple of times and some of the silver made "nails" instead of shot.

Oh well, it should digest nicely in my silver cell. Saved time having to weight it out and cast bars.

It was fun doing something new - any critique would be welcomed.

kadriver


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## cnbarr (Mar 2, 2013)

Hey Ka, always a pleasure reading and seeing all if your posts!

I have done similar before, but with gold, I took a new melting dish and drilled a 1/8" hole in the center then 5 or 6 evenly spaced holes around the first. It works great for making shot, but glazing it first makes a huge difference in it's performance, as I'm sure you quickly discovered by the silver nails you made! :mrgreen:


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## element47.5 (Mar 2, 2013)

All you need is Maxwell's Silver Hammer to drive those silver nails!

Incidentally, the idea that you might simply pack the direct cement-crystal harvest (or...the one-time-through crystals you intend to re-run through your cell) into a "snowball" (once thoroughly washed, of course) without any sort of ingotizing *or* even this type of shotting I found pretty interesting. Obviously this would be a big fuel savings. 

Seems to me the raw crystals would stick together better than shot. That would be quite cool, to have sort of a mortar and pestle and try to compact your raw cemented silver into a snowball, including embedding the anode lead into it. A silver lollypop!


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## cnbarr (Mar 2, 2013)

element47.5 said:


> All you need is Maxwell's Silver Hammer to drive those silver nails!



"Bang bang Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon her head, bang bang Maxwell's silver hammer made sure she was dead! "

Love the reference and the Beatles, Sargent peppers lonely heart's club band is my two year old sons favorite movie!!! He loves it.


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## glondor (Mar 2, 2013)

That's a beautiful bowl of silver. Nice set up as well. I do look forward to your posts. Always something interesting.

I believe there is a post by GSP or 4metals that explains how to get really tiny shot. It has to do with the proximity of the shot dish to the water. Closer produces smaller shot, if I remember correctly. (But not too close) :shock: 

I did freepour some silver shot once with Wrecker45, Jim with the torch and I holding the dish. When the molten silver hit the water.... It exploded, and the shot was like sand. The loud bang made us both jump. Surprisingly, all the silver was in the water. I think I poured too fast and from too close. 

Jim and I got the Bang part, you got the silver nails...


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## Palladium (Mar 2, 2013)

Another trick i do with one of my melting dishes is about half an inch from the top lip i drill a small hole for pouring shot. Most people use a separate dish and have to heat it, hold it in place over the water, what have you. I melt the gold in the dish keeping it tilted slightly away from the side with the hole. Not that it will spill out because you can almost fill the dish up because of the location of the hole. Once the metals ready i tilt the dish while heating the hole and it runs through like mercury through your fingers. Makes nice little bb's.


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## Woodworker1997 (Mar 3, 2013)

Wanna sell some of that shot? Even some nails? 

Derek


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## mikeinkaty (Mar 3, 2013)

_x_


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## kadriver (Mar 3, 2013)

I was trying to get nice uniform size shot.

The nails (that's what my wife called them when I showed her this batch) were a total surprise.

Toward the end of the pour the hole got plugged up with some trash and the show was over.

I still had about 2 ozt in the shot dish and maybe 6 or 7 in the melt dish so I just poured the metal straight into the water from both dishes.

The pile of metal that I poured directly into the water turned out better than that poured through the dish with the hole.

I have made "sand" out of the silver myself. I got the metal way too hot in the melt dish and when I poured it into the water it exploded into tiny balls of silver about the size of sand.

I've got a bunch more silver cementing out right now so I will probably do this again - maybe use Palladium's idea and put the hole up high on the melt disk then just pour through the hole.

This silver is not for sale right now. It's going to be run through the silver cell.

kadriver


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## Palladium (Mar 3, 2013)

Put some borax over the hole in the dish and melt it until it glazes the hole through to the back side of the dish.


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## kadriver (Mar 4, 2013)

I drilled a hole up high on the side of the dish and glazed with borax as suggested.


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## kadriver (Mar 4, 2013)

It worked real good. The hole became plugged one time but I just worked the pool of molten silver over the hole and it started pouring again.

The shot came out pretty good, This is all new to me and I will have to work on my technique.

I'll be using shot made from cement silver from now on in my electrolytic silver cell - its much easier and takes less time.

The hole in the side of the dish eliminates setting up that complex rig I used earlier. Thanks again Palladium.

kadriver


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## mjgraham (Mar 4, 2013)

so pretty


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## Palladium (Mar 4, 2013)

Are you using a mapp torch with little bottles (Hand held) or are you using a torch set up with separate ox and propane?


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## Palladium (Mar 4, 2013)

I should have looked before i ask. :roll: 

The reason you were making nails and not bb's was because as the metal cool it starts to solidify and drag ( Viscosity ). This elongated the silver. That tells me you need more heat. With a hotter pour they would come out bb size. The same with the hole plugging up, more heat. You can buy ax ox bottle filled with gas for about $80-$100. Just make sure it is certified. Don't lease one! Buy one! To much trouble with deposits, paper work, and for the rent on one for a year you could have bought it. When it runs out just take it to them and swap it out $15. Then you need a torch kit also this one does fine for $99. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Welding-Kit-Oxy-Acetylene-Welcing-Cutting-Torch-Kit-Fits-Victor-Metal-Working-/310568967910?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item484f5a5ee6 Then all you need is propane. You can get a gas bbq grill bottle swapped out for about $20-$25. All together about $250 and you will have a nice torch set up cable of handling what ever you may need in the future. Plus with that much gas and ox for $40 you can do a wholeeeee lot of melting with plenty of heat.


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## kadriver (Mar 4, 2013)

Palladium,

I used the MAPP torch to preheat the silver while I got my Oxy/Acet torch set up.

I know MAPP will melt the silver, but I used the Oxy/Acet to do the actual melt and pour of the shot.

I added some more heat while making the shot and over heated the silver.

I had heated it to its boiling point (unintentionally) and it burst into tiny balls of silver in the tank with a loud bang when it hit the water - kind of scary but I knew what it was because I had experienced it before, but it still made me jump.

Making the shot is a new process for me. I'll get better at it as I gain experience.

kadriver


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## kadriver (Mar 4, 2013)

I got these photos so I might as well post them - this is my man-cave.

Here is my work station where I clean and weigh and test the metals before I process them.


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## kadriver (Mar 4, 2013)

More table space


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## kadriver (Mar 4, 2013)

Cabinet storage


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## kadriver (Mar 4, 2013)

Chemical Storage


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## kadriver (Mar 4, 2013)

Work Bench


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## kadriver (Mar 4, 2013)

Glassware Storage


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## kadriver (Mar 4, 2013)

More Glass


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## its-all-a-lie (Mar 5, 2013)

I would have to spend a week working nonstop to get my work area as organised as you have yours and if i did it i wouldnt be able to find anything when i need it.


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## Palladium (Mar 5, 2013)

Very organized indeed. Nice Kevin! Is that a waffle/pancake griddle and if so is that independent temperature control for each side?


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## kadriver (Mar 5, 2013)

The electric heater in the fume hood is a dual electric coil type that I got from the thrift store for $8

It has seperate controls for each side.


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## mjgraham (Mar 5, 2013)

Wow, and I was impressed about the silver, very nice all around!


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## Palladium (Mar 5, 2013)

I seen one myself in a thrift store last week and thought about buying it. Only thing was it was a single temp unit. Ive never tried the griddle. I use only the GE dual burner type coil hotplate. It's a work horse! It would seem to me that the increased surface are would make for greater heat dissipation with the griddle. I find with the coil setting under my Pyroceram dish the heat transfer is more efficient and makes for a quicker heat build up when i'm using 2-4000 ml beakers with a lot of volume. It can take a long time for a solution of that size to go from 0-60 in the1/4 mile. I like to run my processes fast and hard sometimes and like you have just found what works and stuck with it. I'm not much for deviating off the beaten path but if it's an improvement i'm willing to try it. Chris has mentioned it as well as others.


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## kadriver (Mar 5, 2013)

I know I've seen it before, but could you post a picture of the GE that you have - I want one.

Thanks - kadriver


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## Palladium (Mar 5, 2013)

http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-Dual-Burner-Hot-Plate/12442588 The right side with the small burner. Don't let that fool you it's the hottest side and fastest because of it's compact design. The left side puts out just as much heat but is about 20% slower on the heat up.


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## philddreamer (Mar 5, 2013)

Call Wal-mart before you head out, they may not have hotplates in stock any more!
I just bought an Oster (2 burners) at Target; I went to 2 Wal-mart in my area, "don't sell them anymore" they said; niether does HomeDepot nor Lowe's. "Too many fires from people not using them safely", they all said.
You might be able to order it on line and have it delivered to you, though.
Phil


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## kadriver (Mar 6, 2013)

Ah yes - I've seen this particular one at the Walmart store.

I'll get it soon before they quit selling - good price too.

kadriver


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## SilverNitrate (Mar 6, 2013)

Beautiful workspace reminds me of when I built the first lab back in 1994. Silver is such a messy substance with stains that never remove. Enjoy it now.
The cheapest hot plate will always work. when one goes out disconnect the coils and whatever then connect the live wires directly to the opposite ends of the coil. I make my hot plates last 10x longer and never pay more than $10 for them.


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## samuel-a (Mar 8, 2013)

Palladium said:


> Another trick i do with one of my melting dishes is about half an inch from the top lip i drill a small hole for pouring shot. Most people use a separate dish and have to heat it, hold it in place over the water, what have you. I melt the gold in the dish keeping it tilted slightly away from the side with the hole. Not that it will spill out because you can almost fill the dish up because of the location of the hole. Once the metals ready i tilt the dish while heating the hole and it runs through like mercury through your fingers. Makes nice little bb's.



Yup, pretty useful trick i might add.
You could use either end of the crucible. Though in any case... furnace melting is superior over torch.


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## mikeinkaty (Mar 8, 2013)

Palladium said:


> http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-Dual-Burner-Hot-Plate/12442588 The right side with the small burner. Don't let that fool you it's the hottest side and fastest because of it's compact design. The left side puts out just as much heat but is about 20% slower on the heat up.



I have my hotplate on a timer like this one: http://www.conservationmart.com/images/Product/medium/10491.jpg

Mine is a 12hr timer but I rarely set it for more than 2 hrs. Saves burning dishes! I wish mine was a 2 hr timer.

Mike


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## GOLDbuyerCA (Mar 8, 2013)

*Nice Homey pictures* good lighting, nice set up for your craft. a picture from me, telling forum viewers, to save the small silver capacitors, 
as they are valued by builders, of audio , or power supply designs. the small silver cap, in photo, the big ones, make good rings. Cheers, Nice photos.


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## MysticColby (May 16, 2013)

kadriver, you and I always have very similar things we do, techniques, and ways that we like to do things. *high five!* I'm always searching for things I want to try, and find that you've already outlined a way to do it that I find to be the best way I've read so far.
...except my work area is far more temporary and less organized than yours :*( my glassware is in cardboard box, materials like filters and stir bars are in a tool box, buckets and chemical storage box are in a shed in the back yard. everything is taken out and used on a table in the back yard. renting and roommates suck.

This is how I've been making silver shot:
-drill a 1/8" hole in a new melting dish (drill from the bottom side, it tends to break the edges of the side the drill comes out of), sprinkle borax in the dish
-melt ~500g silver (I only make shot out of 0.999 silver cell-refined silver)
-near end of melt, put melting dish in furnace, on top of the silver's crucible (to preheat it - get to glowing red-hot).
-fill a 5 gallon bucket with ice water, put a stainless pan at the bottom
-suspect dish as close to water surface as possible (I use 2 wood sticks, normally used to mix paint, to support part of a a K-23 fire brick that is about 1/2" thick with a hole in the middle, then the dish goes on top of that in the hole. dish is about 1/2" above water).
-slowly pour silver into dish, do not have dish more than 1/4 full. careful of crucible being too close to plastic bucket and wood support - this is surprising how well it works if it's as little as 5 inches away.
-allow a minute for shot to cool, then recover stainless pan with shot in it
-pour shot into a colander with ~1/16" holes, suspended in a bucket of water so water is above level of shot, stir with hand. This removes any tiny pieces.
-remove from colander onto a paper towel. while allowing to dry, pick out pieces you don't like (such as those nails and any sharp or hollow pieces).
-collect the BBs that went through the colander and the nails on a different paper towel, allow to dry, add these to the next batch of shot you make (probably shouldn't do this if you're making shot out of sterling silver).
-save shot in air-tight case with a few packets of desiccant
-about 90% recovery (10% of the shot is out of spec and re-melted next time)

Things I should probably do differently:
-maybe 1/16" or 3/32" holes in the dish instead of 1/8"?
-water pump to stir the water, but be careful about splashing possibly touching the dish
-before the small-hole colander, first pour shot into a colander with ~3/8" holes. this will make it easier to remove the nails

Things I've noticed:
-pouring silver into dish too fast resulted in more nails. a lot of the time, this also produced a giant glob of shot that was stuck together. My theory is that the metal is entering the water so quickly that it's not getting cooled fast enough to form shot, and is sticking together. I've tried dishes with multiple holes, and they resulted in even bigger clumps of shot with very few pieces actually being saved. possible solution is to have a smaller hole in the dish.
-I've never had the dish clog up. probably because I preheat everything to glowing, which is well beyond the melting point. I also don't use a torch to keep the metal hot while pouring.
-At end of pour, there's always about 3 grams of silver that froze in the dish, plugging the hole. At the next melt, during the preheating, this always drips into the next melt, so it isn't a problem. If you want to remove it before then, I have dissolved it in dilute nitric (maybe 5 ml nitric in 200 ml water) with a little heat, this also removes any borax from the dish, which I find handy (after doing this, soak the dish in water to remove any nitric that may of soaked into the dish, then slowly heat the dish before the next use to drive off any water).

I'll post pictures of shinies and equipment when I get home ^_^


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## samuel-a (May 18, 2013)

Very impressive mystic !

I'm pouring the shot with the drilled crucible shown above.
It takes about 20-25 seconds to pour 1 Kg (with circular motion) into 13" height water.
Same as you, 9.5-10% rejects that goes back to the furnace.


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## kadriver (May 22, 2013)

Very nice looking silver shot you guys.

I am using cement silver for making my shot.

I use the shot in my silver cell anode basket, placing an electrode bar with electrical pole on top of the shot in the filter basket.

I never thought of using a colander to sift out the nails form the good shot - great idea.

I have found (as palladium pointed out) that the temperature of the molten silver is important to the formation of good shot.

The temp should be high, but not high enough to cause the molten silver to explode when it hits the water.

Too cool temp makes for bad shot formation and many "nails".

I have been fishing out the nails and cutting then up with wire cutters. 

My shot does not have to be pretty as it goes right into my silver cell anode basket.

kadriver


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## MysticColby (May 23, 2013)

hmm, if it's just feed for a cell, couldn't you not bother making shot and just make corn flakes instead? (pour straight from a dish into water) no where near as uniform of pieces, but that, as you said, isn't a requirement.


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## andrew john (Oct 22, 2013)

wow that is a realy nice lab set up Kadriver. I wonder if thy will do another lab set up compition again? You could be in to win  

Realy like your work and the way u post Kad, well documented and pictures to show us all what u mean. Keep up the great work mate.


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