# Making Nitrate Salt



## w0lvez (Nov 20, 2010)

I have a water that contains high level of nitrate, what can I use to turn it to a nitrate base salt? :?:


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## lazersteve (Nov 20, 2010)

If the nitrate is a dissovled salt, simply evaporate the water. Your nitrate salt will also likely be contaminated with whatever other dissolved solids are in the water.

Steve


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## butcher (Nov 20, 2010)

wOLvez, 
You can make sodium nitrate, potassium nitrate or nitric acid, there is a world of things in chemistry you can make with the nitrate.

I believe this nitrate water would already have some metal cation, sodium, calcium, potassium, magnesium, Iron, and so on depending on source, (most waters will contain these metals naturally, lets take distilled water (rain), when it hits the ground and it will pick up dissolve calcium and magnesium metals from the rock) so your water most likely contains these evaporation of your nitrate solution would leave the nitrate salts of these metals, or by adding sulfuric acid to this high nitrate water solution and distilling should give a weak nitric acid (if you added some copper it would also help in driving off the NO2 gas from your boiling rig, leaving copper sulfate behind, this NO2 gas if bubbled into water (some peroxide can help here), this would give a weak nitric acid, which can be concentrated up to 68% by evaporation.

nitrates have been leached from urine, and barnyard soil, bat cave's from dung on floor, many early pioneers made money for selling their nitrates, and so on for thousands of years, they have been used to make gunpowders,fertilizers and so on.

KNO3 can be made from nitrate soils and wood ash.
pottasium hydroxide can also be leached from wood ash. 
and of coarse if you have any hog fat left over, you can make soap with that hog lard and wood ash, and if you drive a diesel can use the byproduct of your soap factory, to get to town and sell your gold.

sorry I did not give all the details, but if you study you will learn more than from me.


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## w0lvez (Nov 21, 2010)

I


butcher said:


> I believe this nitrate water would already have some metal cation, sodium, calcium, potassium, magnesium, Iron, and so on depending on source, (most waters will contain these metals naturally, lets take distilled water (rain), when it hits the ground and it will pick up dissolve calcium and magnesium metals from the rock) so your water most likely contains these evaporation of your nitrate solution would leave the nitrate salts of these metals, or by adding sulfuric acid to this high nitrate water solution and distilling should give a weak nitric acid (if you added some copper it would also help in driving off the NO2 gas from your boiling rig, leaving copper sulfate behind, this NO2 gas if bubbled into water (some peroxide can help here), this would give a weak nitric acid, which can be concentrated up to 68% by evaporation.
> 
> nitrates have been leached from urine, and barnyard soil, bat cave's from dung on floor, many early pioneers made money for selling their nitrates, and so on for thousands of years, they have been used to make gunpowders,fertilizers and so on.
> 
> ...



The process I used to make that nitrate water is very unique. *There is no metal dissolve because I used water instead of soil*. I put Distilled Water in a 20 gallons aquarium with a lot of biofilter (Aerator with sponge/foam). Few drops of Ammonium Hydroxide is added daily for 2 months.

It takes a lot of wood andtime to have an ash. It takes a lot of ash to have potash.


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## Platdigger (Nov 21, 2010)

Interesting.
Do you have an idea of what your costs are of pumping air into that water
(20 gallons), for that amount of time?

Also, am I correct in saying that what you have now, is basically ammonium nitrate disolved in water?


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## w0lvez (Nov 21, 2010)

Platdigger said:


> Interesting.
> Do you have an idea of what your costs are of pumping air into that water
> (20 gallons), for that amount of time?
> 
> Also, am I correct in saying that what you have now, is basically ammonium nitrate disolved in water?



Air pump has a very low wattage so it will not cost that much. Once you already have a colony of bacteria in the filter that converts *Ammonia to Nitrite and Nitrite to Nitrate* it will only take few days to convert Ammonia to Nitrate. Honestly as of now I completely have no idea what is dissolve in water. I tried to boil it and everything evaporated. But I'm sure that it has high amount of nitrates using a test kit


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## butcher (Nov 21, 2010)

the test kit may be detecting very small amounts of nitrates? 

I too would expect ammonium nitrates,from what you are discribing, but then again this seems like a lot of speculation, as to the reactions going on in this water solution, your test kit may show positive but they could possibly be just a very small amount, depending on the reaction of your test kit and how it works?

look how sensitive stannous chloride is for gold, just because it shows the gold is there, does not mean you will get it out.

Boiling may vaporise off what you have, consider temperature may be too high and maybe slow evaporation at lower temperature.

What you have by theory may not be what is in the pot, or what you have in the pot may not be as much as you think?

something I have is alot of wood and wood ash from heating my home and clearing property, leaching wood ash with rain water is not much trouble for me, and the KOH is very useful and free, and it works great for removing the Hair from deer and animal hides before tanning the leather, or neutralizing my acidic solutions and dropping out metals from these solutions.


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## w0lvez (Nov 22, 2010)

butcher said:


> the test kit may be detecting very small amounts of nitrates?



The test kit can only detect up to 160 ppm(mg/L) of nitrates. When I tested it a month ago the level of nitrates is already off scale because the color of the solution is much darker.



butcher said:


> I too would expect ammonium nitrates,from what you are discribing, but then again this seems like a lot of speculation, as to the reactions going on in this water solution, your test kit may show positive but they could possibly be just a very small amount, depending on the reaction of your test kit and how it works?


I'm 99.9% sure it is not ammonium nitrate because it can rarely form naturally. The simplest way to make it is by mixing nitric acid and ammonium hydroxide.



butcher said:


> nitrates have been leached from urine, and barnyard soil, bat cave's from dung on floor, many early pioneers made money for selling their nitrates, and so on for thousands of years, they have been used to make gunpowders,fertilizers and so on.


Urine, dung, non nitrate based fertilizers and any decaying organic material will slowly oxidize to ammonia gas. Using ammonia gas dissolved in water or Ammonium hydroxide will speed up the Nitrification Process. 


butcher said:


> KNO3 can be made from nitrate soils and wood ash.
> pottasium hydroxide can also be leached from wood ash.


Wood ash produce Potassium and Sodium nitrate. *A drum full of wood ash will only produce few grams Potassium and Sodium nitrate*. I tried extracting potassium carbonate from wood ash. It don't even reach a teaspoon of potassium carbonate out of 1.5L bottle full of ash. But the quantity depends on what kind of wood the ash came from


It's only nitrates without any metal ion bonded on it if I am not mistaken. I think a carbonate is still needed to be dissolve in the nitrate water to have a solution of nitrate salt
*Potassium Carbonate - Potassium Nitrate
Ammonium Carbonate - Ammonium Nitrate 
Sodium Carbonate - Sodium Nitrate*

*My biggest problem* is I can find a single super market selling Soda ash,washing soda or sodium carbonate. Only laundry detergent and bleaches are sold. :x :x :x


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## Platdigger (Nov 22, 2010)

Have you checked the ph of this water?


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 22, 2010)

w0lvez said:


> *My biggest problem* is I can find a single super market selling Soda ash,washing soda or sodium carbonate. Only laundry detergent and bleaches are sold. :x :x :x



Try a pool supply store for PH up and I think you will find soda ash.


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## lazersteve (Nov 22, 2010)

Lowes carries soda ash in the swimming pool section as pH up also, check the label.

Steve


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## w0lvez (Nov 23, 2010)

I know it sounds a little stupid but it's true I ask 2 pool keeper already but they don't even know what pH is. They both told they are only adding chlorine and nothing more.
Sodium Bisulfate, Soda ash and Ammonium Hydroxide is very hard to find here. It can only be bought where lab chemicals are sold I takes 3hrs drive just to go there


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## Barren Realms 007 (Nov 23, 2010)

w0lvez said:


> I know it sounds a little stupid but it's true I ask 2 pool keeper already but they don't even know what pH is. They both told they are only adding chlorine and nothing more.
> Sodium Bisulfate, Soda ash and Ammonium Hydroxide is very hard to find here. It can only be bought where lab chemicals are sold I takes 3hrs drive just to go there



If they are not adjusting the PH don't listen to what they tell you. The PH in a pool needs to be adjusted at times.


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## butcher (Nov 24, 2010)

Na2CO3, sodium carbonate (washing soda) (soda ash), can be found in many soap products, sometimes in a fairly pure state as washing soda, some automatic diswasher powders have soda ash and sodium silicate. look closely at the lables of store products.

CaCO3, egg shells, calcium carbonate,

CaCO3 MgCO3,dolamite,calcium magnesium carbonate,

CaCO3, tums antacid, calcium carbonate.

K2CO3, potash,potasium carbonate

CaO, lime calcium oxide

NaHCO3, sodium hydrogen carbonate, baking soda

NaHSO4. sodium bisufate, sodium hydrogen sulfate



list could go on and on.

if you have a nitrate solution many of the metal cations will make an Ionic bond with the nitrate.

if you have nitrate in solution in any appreciable amount, it should be no problem to form a soluble nitrate salt, remember all nitrate's are soluble.

and if much nitrate in solution should be no problem to get NO2 fumes, then forming nitric acid.

even adding copper sulfate and sulfuric acid then distilling, would first vapor off water, then dilute nitric (if sufficient nitrate in solution).

Nitrate---brown ring test--- solution to be tested and freshly prepared FeSO4 solution + 1 drop of conc. HNO3 added along side of test tube = brown ring forms at junction of sol and acid.


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## qst42know (Nov 24, 2010)

If your goal is to produce your own nitrate you will get a much higher concentration of the beneficial bacteria if you avoid the dilution with aquarium water.

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/saltpeter.html


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