# How much silver would you say was in 3000 grams of sterling



## jacko (Nov 2, 2011)

I haave a 12 piece set with all the serving stuff of 1913 gorham sterling silver it weighs within a gram or 2 of 3000 and i was was wanting to know how much silver is in it. First of all thanks for all of you guys help on silver recovery im in the middle of refining some jewelry right now. I was wanting to know how much silver was in the set because i thought about taking it to a refiner in texas and they take 10% i was wandering what i would get back.THANKS in ADVANCE.


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## glondor (Nov 2, 2011)

.920 % . Somewhere between 2700 to 2800 grams. Not a lot of experience with it but I have seen pieces marked "sterling" at 918 by xrf and as high as 933. Most pieces are low.Your mileage may vary.


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## jimdoc (Nov 2, 2011)

http://www.dendritics.com/scales/mck.asp?WeightU=3000&Units=g&Metal=Ag&PurityC=.925&Purity=0.925&PrOzt=&Markup=0

Jim


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## Rodthrower18 (Nov 2, 2011)

Jacko, I'm fairly new here as well so I may stand to be corrected but pieces that old from that particular maker might be worth well more than the silver content for a variety of reasons. Do a quick flea bay search on gorham flatware and you might be in for a surprise. 

As for the silver content I've learned from a few of the sages to be conservative on your silver estimates, so a nice round figure would be 90% so 3000 * .90 = 2700g of silver approximate and 2700 / 31.1 = 86.816 Troy ounces of silver.


Just my opinion I'd still look into the antique value before I scrap it. I bought an old Oneida coffee pot at a thrift store a few weeks ago and sold it for $50 on craigslist in a few days. Hope this helps.

Edit: the cost on the coffee pot was $4


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## element47 (Nov 2, 2011)

1913 Gorham sounds like ETRUSCAN which is a LIGHTISH style (meaning not that much per fork in scrap) but is modestly, not extremely prized by collectors. 

Yes? 







Not that style means anything in particular, weight is weight, assuming your weight is all forks and spoons, no hollow-handled knives or serving items. But this style might be salable for more than its scrap weight. 

Simple calculation: the yield in .999 weight = 80% of gross sterling weight. 3000 gms * .8 = 2400 gms. 

2400 gms / 31.1 = 77.1 tr oz * current spot about $34 = ~~$2623. 

The 80% includes ALL frictions: 
The refiner's cut at 10%
Your freight and insurance to the refiner 
The refiner's "pot loss" fee = ~~1%
The refiner's "Free money because we have your goods and you don't and we can say whatever we want" = about 1% 
(often described as "Hey, your Gorham sterling only assayed out at 91.2% fee) 
The refiner's "Hey, look at that, we finished weighing and assaying your goods at that low, low point for silver that week", isn't that a coincidence?" fee. 

You will get a little bit more than the above because you don't have to pay INcoming freight. But 80% was the number I used when I was buying sterling and it was pretty close. 

One of the evil tyrranies of this is, the "percent loss" gets to be a significantly larger number when the price of silver is high. You have a pile of forks and spoons. When silver was $20, the refiner's 10% cut was $154. At $34, the refiner gets $262. Have his chemical/labor costs gone up 34/20 = 70%?


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## Grassbur (Nov 2, 2011)

jacko said:


> I haave a 12 piece set with all the serving stuff of 1913 gorham sterling silver it weighs within a gram or 2 of 3000 and i was was wanting to know how much silver is in it. First of all thanks for all of you guys help on silver recovery im in the middle of refining some jewelry right now. I was wanting to know how much silver was in the set because i thought about taking it to a refiner in texas and they take 10% i was wandering what i would get back.THANKS in ADVANCE.



Element is correct on 2 counts. 

That set is probably worth significantly more then melt value.

Also something to be aware of, Knives often have stainless blades and a rod that goes into the handle. This rod and blade weigh significantly more then the silver handle.


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## element47 (Nov 2, 2011)

By the way, to get the more accurate weight on items *including* hollow-handled knives, separate and remove the knives from a pile of items that includes only solid sterling items. Forks and spoons and butter spreaders, essentially. The master (biggest) butter spreader may also have a hollow handle. Weigh that pile. 

For every hollow dinner knife, figure 1/2 tr oz gross sterling. If you crush the handle and empty it out, it will weigh somewhere between 13 and 18 grams on Etruscan. On bigger styles, they will lean a little more than 1/2 tr oz, but in general, hollow knives rarely weigh more than 20-22 grams, on big fat more modern styles. The average I would say is 16-18 gms. Some will weigh more, some less. 

When it comes to lighter, more dainty hollow handled items, they will weigh quite a bit less, often 5-10 grams. 

So right off the bat, if you have a "12 piece" (I am going to assume = dangerous) that you mean 12 "PLACE" setting (meaning 12 dinner forks, 12 salad forks, probably 24 teaspoons, etc; etc; you're talking about losing about 12 oz right off the bat because you have to subtract the gross weight of the dinner knives (figure 1.5 tr oz) and add back in 1/2 tr oz. Then you have to do that with all the other stuff. 

Don't let me get your hopes up too far...it is difficult to get wildly above scrap for anything but some very, very desirable patterns, and Etruscan isn't quite in that group. It isn't all that rare and the "look" isn't as popular as it once was. 

DO NOT, DO NOT send any hollow handle stuff to your refiner!! He will 1: Hate you, and 2: Realize that you are a newbie and probably take advantage. Either take the handles apart yourself and make sure they are clean inside, or don't send them at all. I don't mean to insult any refiners. Sending hollow-handle stuff shows you are a numbnut.


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## jacko (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks for all the pointers guys it would be great to know a easy way to rip apart those butter knifes. I buy and sell alot of gold and silver on ebay but with this set it has a monogram on them and i would not be able to get much more than scrap price. So i thought i woyuld send it to the refinery and send a little bit of gold with it to cover the rewfining cost and the premium on the bars i want then throw them in the safe. It would be great rto know a way to tear them butter knifes apart.


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 2, 2011)

I'm sure there are many ways to get the foil off of knives. The fastest way I've seen was done by a guy that put them into a crucible in a crucible furnace (an electric furnace would also surely work) and heated them for awhile at a temperature just below the melting point of the sterling - whatever, don't melt the sterling! The resin in some of them burned (I know) and the plaster of Paris type crumbled (I think). The ones I've seen done this way could easily be pulled apart when cooled and most of the junk dumped out. I've never actually done this, myself, so don't yell at me if it doesn't work.


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## element47 (Nov 2, 2011)

My advice, for what it's worth: NEVER EVER send mixed metals to a refiner! Why? Because if you send just one hollow handled knife and or a plated fork along with a batch of sterling, the refiner won't just pick out your plated item. Oh, they will pick out the plated fork all right, because they can recognize it in an instant, and they will never actually melt it. But they will weigh your whole batch and adjust YOUR ENTIRE LOAD downwards in assay percentage. Now, ALL your .925 sterling is .887 sterling and that fork just cost you the better part of $100. 

This even goes for sending in coin (.900) silver along with sterling. Unless you really know the refiner, never send in mixed types of metals. That is my opinion, based upon painful experience. 

There are several ways to "de-handle" knives. It depends on whether the handle is filled with powder = casting sand, or "cement" = some kind of goop which looks like hot glue, solidified. One way is just to crush the handle in a biggish vise. Usually the handle will split along a mold line. If the handle is filled with casting sand, the sand will start to spill out, then you can pull out the blade, then keep opening up the handle with a junk screwdriver and tapping it so that all the sand drains out. 

One thing I will tell you is WEAR GLOVES as the edges of the sterling are RAZOR SHARP and will cut your hands to SHREDS. 

Another way is to take a biggish adjustable wrench, either pipe or crescent, clamp the knife so that the blade is vertical, and place the wrench + knife on a flat surface that you can pound on. Whack the handle good and hard with a heavy hammer. Again, the handle should split or start to split. Sometimes it's useful to take a junk screwdriver and pry the halves of the handle apart once they start to split. Gradually, tap and pry the sand out. 

The harder ones to deal with are the cement-filled ones. I have found that these require heat = melting the cement to extract the stainless blade. Propane torch. And this can get to be a problem because if you overheat the handle, it can accumulate gas and burst. This usually blows the blade out with modest force, but it also splatters the molten cement all over everything, you included. The way I have dealt with these is to FIRST clamp them in a wrench or a vise (as above) and punch a gas-relief hole or two at the non-blade end of the handle. You can use a nail or a punch, but don't skip this step! Or, whack it good and make sure the handle at least starts to split and you can see a separation, a gap. If you don't create these holes, it's very easy for the thing to burst and spatter cement in your face. Using a vise, clamp the knife such that the blade hangs downwards, heat up the handle, and the blade will eventually drop out. Then you keep heating the handle so that the cement burns off. When it is molten, the cement is nasty, vile stuff. Wear goggles.


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## jacko (Nov 2, 2011)

Hey thanks alot guys after the first 2 i was beating them things open in no time and come to find out the refinery was only going to give me a half ounce or under for them each and they weighed between 17-19 grams . Hey if anyone needs a english bulldog puppy i raise them and could swing you a heck of a deal for the help. THANKS AGAIN.


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## Grassbur (Nov 2, 2011)

jacko said:


> Hey thanks alot guys after the first 2 i was beating them things open in no time and come to find out the refinery was only going to give me a half ounce or under for them each and they weighed between 17-19 grams . Hey if anyone needs a english bulldog puppy i raise them and could swing you a heck of a deal for the help. THANKS AGAIN.



Now that is an intriguing proposal! I love those dogs


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## SilverNitrate (Nov 2, 2011)

Most so called refiners dont refine the metal or engage in smelting... 
Most simply melt down whats sent in then analyze with a XRF gun, then pay you. That buyer may then add something e.g. silver or copper to a big melt to get it to exactly 925/1000 and make jeweler's shots out of it. Or that buyer would ship it directly to an exchange who would warehouse the metals and have a large scale refiner make 999fine bread loafs for deliveries of hard assets.


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## dsv (Nov 4, 2011)

jacko said:


> Hey thanks alot guys after the first 2 i was beating them things open in no time and come to find out the refinery was only going to give me a half ounce or under for them each and they weighed between 17-19 grams . Hey if anyone needs a english bulldog puppy i raise them and could swing you a heck of a deal for the help. THANKS AGAIN.




Looks like I may not be a dollar short but definitely two days late. I take it the 12 place settings are ready for refining? the reason I'm asking is that I've been keeping an eye out for an antique silverware for our upcoming 25th anniversary. I do agree the monogram makes selling it harder but never know who might have the right name.  

not trying to change thread, only adding to earlier comment about value whole rather than refined.

dsv


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## nickvc (Nov 5, 2011)

SilverNitrate said:


> Most so called refiners dont refine the metal or engage in smelting...
> Most simply melt down whats sent in then analyze with a XRF gun, then pay you. That buyer may then add something e.g. silver or copper to a big melt to get it to exactly 925/1000 and make jeweler's shots out of it. Or that buyer would ship it directly to an exchange who would warehouse the metals and have a large scale refiner make 999fine bread loafs for deliveries of hard assets.



No responsible refiner will add anything to unrefined metals to make shot. The contaminantion of various other metals makes for a very poor finish and depending on exactly what the contaminants are a failed batch of castings. Most large bullion houses have streams of scrap and only clean stamping scrap will be fed directly back into production anything with solder or castings goes back into the refinery. I remember many years ago while I was at Johnson Matthey a batch slipped through with some rhodium plating, it cost them a lot of money as no problems turned up until the final finishing....it wouldn't polish to a bright finish!
Never take the chance always use fine metals and top quality metals to make alloys as any money you think you can save will be lost if a manufacturer has failed products!


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## jacko (Nov 5, 2011)

It has a M monogram i have everything but the knifes and i still have them just not in usable shape.


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## qst42know (Nov 6, 2011)

I know it's late, but I have had good luck using a box knife and a vice.

Grip the knife handle flat in a vice and score the silver down the length of the handle with the box knife. Turn the handle 45 degrees diagonal in the vice and with a little squeeze the thin handle splits like a peanut shell.


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