# recovering dissolved gold in AP solution



## jimmyreece

having added to much peroxide or being left to sit in the sun to long, all the gold foil in a AP solution has dissolved. now the gold would just cement its self on to the copper powder that is in the solution which is the black and brown powder, is this correct?


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## glorycloud

Is your AP solution a nice clear emerald green color? Keep using the
AP solution you have on more fingers until it gears a dark brownish color
as more and more copper goes into solution pushing your gold that may have
dissolved out of solution.

When you add a drop or two of water and you get an immediate white
cloud in the AP, then your solution is saturated with copper II chloride
and your gold should be found at the bottom of your bucket.

You can also drop a clean copper pipe or bus bar and it should do the
job as well. I was always cheap and I reused my AP solution as much
as possible.


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## jimmyreece

the solution is brown and saturated. the powders that have settled ( brown and black). this is pms, mostly pms or greatly mixed with other metals that have precipitated also ?
concerning the actions of an hcl or AP solutions, the acid dissolves base metals. now all of what is disolved, does that stay in solution or should i assume any or all precipitated powders are a heavy contaminated mixture of all metals ?


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## jimmyreece

when you say it should do the job as well, do you mean push the gold out of solution or cement the gold on to the copper pipe or buss bar ?


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## eeTHr

jimmy---

Remember the purpose of whatever process you are doing.

The purpose of AP is to dissolve the copper, and leave the gold. If you are processing card edge fingers, that's the case.

So, if the copper is dissolved, and the gold is still solid, what would the sediment on the bottom of the container be?

Particles of gold which are very fine, yet larger than colloidal particles, will be black. Unrefined gold particles larger than those are usually brown. You can have both black and brown gold particles in a process like what you are using.

The gold then needs refining, because there will be a little bit of contaminants.

And there may be a little dissolved gold in your solution, but if you reuse the solution for your next batch, it will not be lost, as the copper will continually push it out. After you use the solution so much that it becomes saturated with copper, it should test clean of Au. Or if you want to, you can cement the last bit of Au out of your solution with copper, but you will shorten the life of the solution. Then, Lazer Steve has a way of rejuvenating the saturated solution, anyway.


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## jimmyreece

thank you. you just anwered all my questions i had with the AP process


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## Geo

i had the same question but slightly different.i put whole boards in AP because the material im working with has many boards that are plated on both sides with some really thick gold.almost all of them bears the HP logo and are military grade.ive had a couple of problems right away, some of the boards had a kind of solder mask that would not dissolve in NaOH solution so i used a steel wire brush to remove as much as i could hoping the AP would work underneath.the next was some of the boards had a coating of silver solder over the gold,i tried sulf+nitric bath but it saturated too quickly to be useful so i put them in as is.im now on batch two in a very large bucket with 4 1/2 gallons of HCI and 1 gallon of peroxide.each with as many boards as would fit with the second almost complete.the first batch has over 1OZT of material back in foil and black and brown powder.im concerned about how much gold could be in solution.ill have one more batch after this one with material on hand.can you re-activate the solution with the addition of NaOH in solution? if not ill squeeze the last of my gold out and leech the copper then neutralize the solution.


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## Palladium

If you used nitric and went to hcl you probably have dissolved some of your gold. For me that's also way to much h202 for the ap process. You only need enough to oxidize the copper at the beginning of the process to get it going. After it starts etching the copper the process is self sustaining as long as you use an air bubble to add oxygen to the solution. Are these boards clean of all components?


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## Geo

Palladium said:


> If you used nitric and went to hcl you probably have dissolved some of your gold. For me that's also way to much h202 for the ap process. You only need enough to oxidize the copper at the beginning of the process to get it going. After it starts etching the copper the process is self sustaining as long as you use an air bubble to add oxygen to the solution. Are these boards clean of all components?


the boards that had the silver that went into sulf+nitric were washed before they went into the bucket.all the boards were depopulated with a chisel and hammer.i put 2 quarts H2O2 in the first batch and 2 quarts into the next with the same solution now it is so green its almost brown.id like to use the same solution to do the last batch of boards but im sure its saturated.i tried a little experiment with a quart of the solution.i put it in a fruit jar and placed the jar in a tupperware bin and added 1/4 cup NaOh.the reaction was pretty dramatic with alot of fizzing and heat but no color change.


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## martyn111

Geo said:


> i tried a little experiment with a quart of the solution.i put it in a fruit jar and placed the jar in a tupperware bin and added 1/4 cup NaOh.the reaction was pretty dramatic with alot of fizzing and heat but no color change.



Can I ask what you were trying to achieve by adding the NaOH to your solution?
If you were trying to drop gold from solution shouldn't you have been using either SMB or SO2?

Also to quote Harold on many occasions, if you are going from nitric to hydrochloric or vice versa and don't want to dissolve values, Incineration is the way, washing will not remove all of the first acid.


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## butcher

Something is wrong.


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## Geo

martyn111 said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> 
> i tried a little experiment with a quart of the solution.i put it in a fruit jar and placed the jar in a tupperware bin and added 1/4 cup NaOh.the reaction was pretty dramatic with alot of fizzing and heat but no color change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can I ask what you were trying to achieve by adding the NaOH to your solution?
> If you were trying to drop gold from solution shouldn't you have been using either SMB or SO2?
> 
> Also to quote Harold on many occasions, if you are going from nitric to hydrochloric or vice versa and don't want to dissolve values, Incineration is the way, washing will not remove all of the first acid.
Click to expand...

actually i was trying to remove some of the copper from the solution so that i might re-use it.it didnt work too well.its no big deal, i still have all the solution and have filtered several times and still cant get all the fine gold particles out.i was wondering if i cant get all the fine gold out should i take the solution in small increments and add nitric by the dropper till i dissolve all the fine gold and drop with SMB?


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## Barren Realms 007

If your solution is saturated with copper (white cloud developes when you add a drop of water) let it set and your gold should settle to the bottom. If you have any floaters spray them with a mist of water and they should settle to the bottom as well. Then siphon off your solution and process the material in the bottom. 

HMMM how many times has this been stated on the forum?


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## Geo

another thing i wasnt thinking about when i put the boards in with the solder mask in place was all the slime in my foils and powder,do i rinse in water a few times and incenerate before HCI-CI?


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## Geo

i tried the water and it didnt do anything till i was rinsing the foils out of the bucket go figure then it turned white


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## Barren Realms 007

Geo said:


> i tried the water and it didnt do anything till i was rinsing the foils out of the bucket go figure then it turned white



The white you see doing this is possibly tin that was in your solder.


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## jimmyreece

so the AP solution is technicaly for copper based metals. and that i asume is why ive read that alot of guys seperate their pins with a magnet.
but after seperating the pins, one can still use the AP method for iron based pins, correct , or just Hcl +0 ?
yes i can see where having them mixed can and already has(for me) cause a problem in the solution.
it looked like the gold,copper and iron had a big turff war. i still have the remains to that battle put away. what would be a good fix for that at that point. nitric ?


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## Oz

Ok, we have a few things discussed in this thread, but all of them add up to “is that gold in the bottom of my solution?” or “is there gold in my solution?”.

Why is there no mention of testing with stannous chloride?

Some of the members here do not realize just how good they have it with all of the information that is on this forum, yet they still just often glaze over it. 

A case in point. About 6 months ago I was talking to a refinery that does millions in gold a year. I asked how they determine their end point when precipitating. Long story short, they had never even heard of stannous chloride, nor did they have a good way to determine their end point when precipitating. I described its use and manufacture, then even sent them some pure tin. I offered to walk them through by phone the making of their stannous as well as how to use it once they received the tin I had sent. They were excited to receive it and learn how to use it.

I have yet to get that call.

That my friends is “your” gold going out of their door that you are not paid on when you sell to them, because they do not know how to test! You however have been handed all these years of experience on this forum. If you do not do your work in studying what is offered here, do not expect the refinery you sell to to do it for you!

If you truly study what is written here you will be in the position of "knowing" what you are shipping out, and if you are being paid fairly.

Yes, this became a rant. My apologies.


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## dtectr

Geo said:


> i tried the water and it didnt do anything till i was rinsing the foils out of the bucket go figure then it turned white


The copper chloride (the bad kind) is readily soluble in even very dilute HCl. When most of the HCl is rinsed away, you have only water & copper chloride, which is insoluble in water & immediately precipitates as white mud. 

If you remember from lazersteve's video the first rinses were with HCl, for that reason. Try adding a little HCl to the foils/white residue - the solution should clear immediately. You're not going to harm the foils with just HCl & add your rinses to the stock pot. 

I use water now, with copper based materials only after several rinses with HCl. And we're not talking gallons at a time - just enough to cover the foils, and remember to give them a good stir to expose any that is trapped between foils.


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## jimmyreece

your absolutly right about stannous chloride testing Oz. and i have to admit i was slow to develop the habit of using it too.
and thats when i learned how common it was to have values in both solution and the sediment at the bottom at the same time. for a while i was going by the belief that values were only in one or the other.


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## Geo

dtectr said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> 
> i tried the water and it didnt do anything till i was rinsing the foils out of the bucket go figure then it turned white
> 
> 
> 
> The copper chloride (the bad kind) is readily soluble in even very dilute HCl. When most of the HCl is rinsed away, you have only water & copper chloride, which is insoluble in water & immediately precipitates as white mud.
> 
> If you remember from lazersteve's video the first rinses were with HCl, for that reason. Try adding a little HCl to the foils/white residue - the solution should clear immediately. You're not going to harm the foils with just HCl & add your rinses to the stock pot.
> 
> I use water now, with copper based materials only after several rinses with HCl. And we're not talking gallons at a time - just enough to cover the foils, and remember to give them a good stir to expose any that is trapped between foils.
Click to expand...

ok good looking out.i tried a small batch of pins in AP just to see how it would turn out and after the foils released from the pins i rinsed the pins in tap water and got ALOT of white precipitate as mud.it mixed with the foils and i was going to try heated HCI before reading this now i know im on the right path.the white mud wont dissovle in water.i came to realize before i made a blunder about using HCI after sulf cell and nitric wash.i would have been scratching my head wondering where my gold went lol


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## Obsessed

I have been doing this for quite some time and due to my extreme impatience I have ended up with A LOT of various jars and containers with different combinations of a/p, acid/bleach, some with SMB. When I test the solutions most of them turn VERY bright blue immediately. Considering I can't remember EXACTLY what is in each jar is there a way I can pull the gold out of these solutions. I KNOW that there is probably a few ounces in all the containers combined. Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!


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## Grelko

Obsessed said:


> I have been doing this for quite some time and due to my extreme impatience I have ended up with A LOT of various jars and containers with different combinations of a/p, acid/bleach, some with SMB. When I test the solutions most of them turn VERY bright blue immediately. Considering I can't remember EXACTLY what is in each jar is there a way I can pull the gold out of these solutions. I KNOW that there is probably a few ounces in all the containers combined. Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!



Welcome to the forum,

PLEASE, BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE, put everything aside for now, trust me your gold isn't going anywhere, I've messed up before also.

This link has a download for the book by C.M. Hoke that you really need to read, before you accidently hurt yourself or others. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19798 It tells you everything you need to know about the basics for learning how to recover and refine gold properly.

The safety section of the forum here http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=47 It has the information you should learn and use, so that you can do this without injuring anyone.

This link, has alot of information regarding the Acid/Peroxide method http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12914

The library has tons of great information that will help you along the way. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=85

When I first came here, these links helped me very much, ESPECIALLY the book by C.M. Hokes Guide To Refining Precious Metals and the Safety section. 

Without reading this book, and without learning the proper safety, it's like getting on an airplane. The plane is your material, the book and safety section combined is your parachute, if you jump before you exactly what to do, or accidently forget something, the ground will hurt you alot.

There are many dangerous, even deadly fumes that some of these chemicals can make when combined, so please trust me when I say to stop what you are doing and read as much as you can before you jump into anything farther.

Edit - reworded/spelling, added link to Library.


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## butcher

Obsessed,
Grelko has given you the best advice possible, if followed you gain the understanding needed to become proficient at recovering and refining gold, and do it without harming yourself or others, this is a field of work that takes a lot of studying to get good at, and in fact the more you learn the better, and more you will be able to do in this field of work, like any profession, precious metal recovery and refining is not a simple matter, and can be something you will learn more of, the more you study and practice the profession, a profession in which you can learn more of your whole life and never know it all.

The answer to your original question is very simple, you will find it in Hokes book, and in the forum in hundreds of posts, but if you look for the answer there, you will also find answers to your next thousands of questions, and many more you would not even think of to ask. the real wealth is not in that batch of gold you seek, but in the education that gives you the understanding to get that gold and the gold you did not even know about that may have been right under your nose and you walked right past it, or threw it out with the trash...

Your answer is even in the safety section with dealing with waste, the one topic which is more valuable than the metals you have in your colored solutions.


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## Brainbomb

I have dissolved all metals from circuit boards in muriatic acid. I now have a sludge. What should be my next step? I have read that I need to now soak it in Aqua Regia to dissolve the gold. I am mainly after the gold right now, but I want to be able to recover the other nobles. Please help!


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## FrugalRefiner

Brainbomb said:


> I have dissolved all metals from circuit boards in muriatic acid. I now have a sludge. What should be my next step?


I suggest a lot of study. Here are some links to get you going:
Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum
Acid Peroxide Process Information Thread Q & A's

There are many other discussions of the processes you're using, but those will get you started.

Dave


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## rhwhite67

What is the best way to get Palladium dissolved in AP out. I am guessing that just as with Gold sticking a sheet of copper in it will do the job as it would cement out on the copper or eventually would precipitate as the AP solution became endpoint saturated with copper but just wondered if there might be a faster way. Ron


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## jason_recliner

Cementing palladium on copper will work very well. Agitating the solution will greatly hasten the process. Got an air bubbler?
If possible, use a solid copper bar rather than thin sheet material. Sheet may break down into flakes.


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## Geo

You also need to raise the PH by adding a base or by diluting the solution. If not, the cemented Pd will just go back into solution. If the solution is too acidic, it just chews up the copper. So, it's either dilute, raise the PH or saturate the solution with copper.


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## Charlesncharg

Oz is right. I have been referencing this forum since the day i discovered it, maybe 6+ months ago, and only until this last month i havent had the need to post anything at all. Because if you actually read through the literature provided by the forum for free and the other posts to this forum virtually ever question you could ever think of has been asked and thoroughly answered. Just takes a little reading time and patience. I'm just saying.


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## Radu

Hello everyone
I am dealing with some issues with the AP process. I read a lot on this forum but cannot find a solution to my mistakes and cannot find a way recover my gold.
This was the firs process I ever did 6 months ago and I want to repair it
First mistake: Pins and fingers in the same solution
Second: Did not process through HCL to remove base metals
Used Muriatic 33% with small increments of hydrogen peroxide 35%
After 3 hours almost every metal dissolved and ended up with a grey sludge with gold foils inside.

If the gray sludge is mostly copper how could I dissolve it so I can filter out the gold foils?


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## butcher

With the concentration of the hydrogen peroxide, some of the gold also dissolved and may still be in solution, or cemented back out of solution as black powders...

Add a clean bar of copper to cement any gold from the solution, separate the solid sludge from the solution.

HCl alone will dissolve much of the powders forming soluble metal chlorides, so you can put much of the tin, nickel, and copper back into solution, leaving your gold and the more insoluble lead chloride, the lead chloride is soluble in boiling hot water...

After dissolving as much as you can test all of your solutions for dissolved gold, and use copper to cement any from solution.
After removing as much base metals from the powders as you can from the gold by washing, you can then redissolve the gold, and precipitate it from the solution...


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## Radu

Thanks a lot.
Most of the gold precipitate out of the solution and keeps precipitating as black powder. I even tried sinking a copper bar into the solution but it seems there are no powders to attract.

So i guess there is no hope if i just try HCL and Bleach to get only the gold out of the solution?


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## anachronism

Radu said:


> Thanks a lot.
> Most of the gold precipitate out of the solution and keeps precipitating as black powder. I even tried sinking a copper bar into the solution but it seems there are no powders to attract.
> 
> So i guess there is no hope if i just try HCL and Bleach to get only the gold out of the solution?



You could always test the solution for gold before adding a copper bar. If there is none, there's no need to add the bar and waste your valuable time. 

Test test test. 8) 8) 

Jon


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## g_axelsson

Circuit boards are made from pure copper, nickel plating and then gold plating. Tin and lead can be included too if the board was soldered or having a coating of HASL (Hot Air Solder Levelling).
Pins on the other hand is seldom made from pure copper as a base, it's often an alloy so there might be zinc, tin, phosphorus, silicon, ... and that can easily form a grey sludge of unknown content. The peroxide could easily oxidize any tin and now you have metastannic acid too.

And I agree with Jon, test, test and to be sure... test again. :mrgreen: 

Göran


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## Geo

From your post, when you said "almost all metal dissolved". In the future, ensure all metal dissolves. it would have been much easier.


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## Radu

Thanks a lot everyone. I am now working clean but this is an old mistake and had to recover something from this disaster )


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## Radu

Also I want to atach an image showing a golden button from a previous process, but after melting these pieces also showed up :?:


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## Radu

Hello guys,

I almost processed all the fingers in AP solution. Gold foils coming out just fine, but also some gray sludge decanted with the foils. Is it gonna dissolve in fresh hcl to separate from the foils? Or what method should I use to separate them?

Thanks


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## glorycloud

Fresh HCL should dissolve the grey sludge.


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## Radu

glorycloud said:


> Fresh HCL should dissolve the grey sludge.



Thanks a lot!


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## Radu

I also have a question!
I see some people try to add concentrated peroxide to hcl/bleach when dissolving gold.
Has anyone tried that and saw something different? :?: :?:


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## Yggdrasil

Hi
I can't say about peroxide to HCl/Bleach mix, It really should not be neccessary.
HCl/Bleach will dissolve gold powders or foils and even PGM powders by itself.
HCl/Peroxide will dissolve same, but none of these methods are well suited for solid metals.
The HCl/bleach mix has to be watced more closely so one don't add too much Bleach, 
since it will neutralize the HCl.
Not so much a problem with HCl/Peroxide.


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## firespot

I realise this is an old post but I made the same mistake. I believe I added to much peroxide to my AP solution. The gold foil that was on the chips has come off, but I am not seeing any solid foils in the liquid. I think it has gone into solution. What is the best method of recovering the dissolved gold foils from my AP solution? Thanks.


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## nickvc

If you have any more edges to strip simply add them to your solution, as the copper dissolved any dissolved gold will cement back out of solution, it will look like black powder and not gold.
Also make sure all the metals have dissolved from the chips as if any is left your gold could have cemented back out onto it.


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## anachronism

firespot said:


> I realise this is an old post but I made the same mistake. I believe I added to much peroxide to my AP solution. The gold foil that was on the chips has come off, but I am not seeing any solid foils in the liquid. I think it has gone into solution. What is the best method of recovering the dissolved gold foils from my AP solution? Thanks.



You probably havent dissolved the gold. You've possibly plated the gold with Tin from the solder on the components. It's there but under the Tin.

This whole "dissolving gold in AP thing" has become one of these urban myths that grows in stature with each passing year. Yes it's technically possible to dissolve gold with too much peroxide BUT the reality of the situation is that it both extremely rare, and it will all precipitate out back onto the base metals you are exposing by doing so. It does so as dark/black powder. 

IF you're in a situation where you think you used too much peroxide and there are no visible metals then a quick stannous test will reveal all. 

In the vast majority of cases it's what I said at the beginning- Tin plating back over your gold. Hmm maybe that's what lead to this whole thing in the first place...

Regards

Jon


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## Radu

Yggdrasil said:


> Hi
> I can't say about peroxide to HCl/Bleach mix, It really should not be neccessary.
> HCl/Bleach will dissolve gold powders or foils and even PGM powders by itself.
> HCl/Peroxide will dissolve same, but none of these methods are well suited for solid metals.
> The HCl/bleach mix has to be watced more closely so one don't add too much Bleach,
> since it will neutralize the HCl.
> Not so much a problem with HCl/Peroxide.



Since you mentioned that non of these methods are suitable for solid metal...What possibilities do I have to redissolve a gold button in order to refine.. I do not have nitric...the only chemicals I have are household..HCl, bleach, or peroxide 34%. It will take forever. Any one done this before?


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## nickvc

If you can thin down the metal providing a larger surface area it will speed things up, so make it as thin as possible.


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## Yggdrasil

As Nick says!!

Pound it as thin as you can, cut it in thin stripes and twist it into a spiral like shape.
This will crate the maximum availabe surface comparing to the volume.
And since you have 34% peroxide, I would go for that, in order to avoid neutralizing the solution.

I have used it in several occasions. 
Just add a few ml into the HCl and stir, when the bubbling has stopped add a few ml more.
*Make sure you have headroom in the vessel to avoid bubbling over.*

I have always kept the solution cold (room temperature below 20 deg C).
The speed may increase by increasing the temperature, but the oxidiser (Peroxide or Bleach) will break down/evaporate faster then.
Depending on the amount of metal, it may or may not be important in your case.
Good luck


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## Radu

Yggdrasil said:


> As Nick says!!
> 
> Pound it as thin as you can, cut it in thin stripes and twist it into a spiral like shape.
> This will crate the maximum availabe surface comparing to the volume.
> And since you have 34% peroxide, I would go for that, in order to avoid neutralizing the solution.
> 
> I have used it in several occasions.
> Just add a few ml into the HCl and stir, when the bubbling has stopped add a few ml more.
> *Make sure you have headroom in the vessel to avoid bubbling over.*
> 
> I have always kept the solution cold (room temperature below 20 deg C).
> The speed may increase by increasing the temperature, but the oxidiser (Peroxide or Bleach) will break down/evaporate faster then.
> Depending on the amount of metal, it may or may not be important in your case.
> Good luck




Yeah I bubbled up a couple of times ) I know how that feels :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Radu

Thank you guys a lot! You are gold :G


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## firespot

anachronism said:


> firespot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realise this is an old post but I made the same mistake. I believe I added to much peroxide to my AP solution. The gold foil that was on the chips has come off, but I am not seeing any solid foils in the liquid. I think it has gone into solution. What is the best method of recovering the dissolved gold foils from my AP solution? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You probably havent dissolved the gold. You've possibly plated the gold with Tin from the solder on the components. It's there but under the Tin.
> 
> This whole "dissolving gold in AP thing" has become one of these urban myths that grows in stature with each passing year. Yes it's technically possible to dissolve gold with too much peroxide BUT the reality of the situation is that it both extremely rare, and it will all precipitate out back onto the base metals you are exposing by doing so. It does so as dark/black powder.
> 
> IF you're in a situation where you think you used too much peroxide and there are no visible metals then a quick stannous test will reveal all.
> 
> In the vast majority of cases it's what I said at the beginning- Tin plating back over your gold. Hmm maybe that's what lead to this whole thing in the first place...
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jon
Click to expand...


After straining the fingers from the AP, they were clean, no sign of any gold or tin on the fingers where there was a bunch before. Only explination is, the AP solution reacted with the city water that I used to rinse the fingers...DUHHHHH!!!!!


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## Shark

Radu said:


> Yggdrasil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> I can't say about peroxide to HCl/Bleach mix, It really should not be neccessary.
> HCl/Bleach will dissolve gold powders or foils and even PGM powders by itself.
> HCl/Peroxide will dissolve same, but none of these methods are well suited for solid metals.
> The HCl/bleach mix has to be watced more closely so one don't add too much Bleach,
> since it will neutralize the HCl.
> Not so much a problem with HCl/Peroxide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you mentioned that non of these methods are suitable for solid metal...What possibilities do I have to redissolve a gold button in order to refine.. I do not have nitric...the only chemicals I have are household..HCl, bleach, or peroxide 34%. It will take forever. Any one done this before?
Click to expand...


Another long shot, but you might find some sodium nitrate at a farm and garden supply type store. Or a potassium nitrate from a stump remover powder.


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## Radu

Shark said:


> Radu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yggdrasil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> I can't say about peroxide to HCl/Bleach mix, It really should not be neccessary.
> HCl/Bleach will dissolve gold powders or foils and even PGM powders by itself.
> HCl/Peroxide will dissolve same, but none of these methods are well suited for solid metals.
> The HCl/bleach mix has to be watced more closely so one don't add too much Bleach,
> since it will neutralize the HCl.
> Not so much a problem with HCl/Peroxide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you mentioned that non of these methods are suitable for solid metal...What possibilities do I have to redissolve a gold button in order to refine.. I do not have nitric...the only chemicals I have are household..HCl, bleach, or peroxide 34%. It will take forever. Any one done this before?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another long shot, but you might find some sodium nitrate at a farm and garden supply type store. Or a potassium nitrate from a stump remover powder.
Click to expand...


What is the water/nitrate ratio?


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## Shark

I don't use a ratio. I add the hydrochloric, enough to cover the material well with a small bit of water and heat it to moderate heat(medium mark on my hotplate). Then I add the nitrate, usually a sodium nitrate for me, in small quantities. It will take some minutes for it to react, adding a tiny bit of sulfuric acid will speed it up if available. Once it starts allow it to react until it completely stops then add more nitrate.

For example, judging by the size of beads in your picture, I would place them in a 100ml beaker, add about 20ml hydrochloric, about 5ml of water, heat it up, then add maybe 1/8 of a teaspoon of nitrates. Allow it to fully stop reacting, and add more based on the amount of material I had left over. Afterwards it is standard filtering and washing.

If you have a gram of sodium nitrate, the amount of available nitric will be slightly less than a gram potassium nitrate will provide. Working with a small amount, and with in reason, there is no noticeable difference in them. There is a way to calculate the exact amount but I haven't done it for many years. Geo, butcher and a few others might can help with exact numbers better than I can.


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## Radu

Shark said:


> I don't use a ratio. I add the hydrochloric, enough to cover the material well with a small bit of water and heat it to moderate heat(medium mark on my hotplate). Then I add the nitrate, usually a sodium nitrate for me, in small quantities. It will take some minutes for it to react, adding a tiny bit of sulfuric acid will speed it up if available. Once it starts allow it to react until it completely stops then add more nitrate.
> 
> For example, judging by the size of beads in your picture, I would place them in a 100ml beaker, add about 20ml hydrochloric, about 5ml of water, heat it up, then add maybe 1/8 of a teaspoon of nitrates. Allow it to fully stop reacting, and add more based on the amount of material I had left over. Afterwards it is standard filtering and washing.
> 
> If you have a gram of sodium nitrate, the amount of available nitric will be slightly less than a gram potassium nitrate will provide. Working with a small amount, and with in reason, there is no noticeable difference in them. There is a way to calculate the exact amount but I haven't done it for many years. Geo, butcher and a few others might can help with exact numbers better than I can.



Thanks a lot! I'll do it just like you said, in small increments, see what happens. It's the third day of waiting for the button to go in solution in concentrated AP but seems that nothing is happening.


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## Radu

By the way, I managed to refine some other foils. I have to test for purity. Sorry for the image quality.


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