# Build mercury retort



## saadat68

Hi 
I want to make a mercury retort and have some problems. 
Unfortunately I can not find black iron fittings and cap. I can find these:
Coupling 4" like: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91TM20lAqPL._SX385_.jpg for body retort and galvanized fittings. 

After reading this topic http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=661&start=30#p273651 
I found that I can not use steel pipe for my retort.
If I find a suitable gasket I can make this design with black iron. But I have some questions.
http://uupload.ir/files/ayln_htb12j0ihxxxxxadxpxxq6xxfxxxq.jpg

1- I want use a 4 inch iron pipe and weld a sheet on bottom of the pipe. Can heat damage welds and make a leak? 
2- How much thickness needed for pipe/body retort ?

Thanks


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## anachronism

Oh not yet another thread.


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## 4metals

Sadat,
Part of the problem with finding things on the forum is the fact that it is scattered about the forum. There are other threads about retorts and you woild better adding your questions to an existing thread rather than starting a new one, which you do far too much. 

To answer your question, yes a weld would withstand the heat you will apply to the retort.


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## saadat68

Maybe it is better to use this design. It is very simple :
http://projects.inweh.unu.edu/inweh/inweh/content/1223/IWLEARN/Outreach%20Materials/issue-2-october-2006-english-2_2.jpg

Is it safe ? I think steam explosion may occur in this design

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Thanks
I thought new thread is better because other threads is old and also I want add some images from my retort. Moderator, merge my topic in another topic please


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## saadat68

Hi 
On bottom there is some leak (Tested with water). I want to add powder with crucible and it is bottom of the retort so I think it is safe.
What do you think ? can I use this with some leak on bottom ? Is it safe?

http://uupload.ir/files/944_747575_(1).jpg


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## saadat68

Any advice ? Can I use this with a little leak on bottom ? :shock:


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## Topher_osAUrus

I dont know for sure if this is a viable option.
But, have you tried loctite thread sealer? Or maybe even teflon tape?(i dont think it does well with high heat situations), maybe another means of getting it sealed?

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't take the chance with mercury fumes, but I have a family that depends on me..

Surely there is a better way to go about this..

Sodium thio solution can dissolve silver oxide...not saying thats a better way, since I am unfamiliar with it's chemistry concerning mercury. But, there has to be a less dangerous way.

I know that the pressure is immense in your situation, since you prematurely got an expensive workspace and what not. But, you simply cannot jeopardize your health, and those around you, for a little metal.

Whats wrong with the traditional methods of battery recovery?


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## saadat68

Hi Topher
I found retorting Hg is best method. I want to use traditional method but I must find a way to remove Hg

Tonight I will search about Sodium thio leaching but I don't think it can remove Hg. Also some of powder are silver metal.

And about loctite thread sealer, It is not good Idea because heat is above 400 C and I want open and close it continuously 

Thanks


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## Topher_osAUrus

https://www.google.com/search?q=high+temp+thread+sealant&oq=hifh+temp+thread+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.4680j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

One of those should be able to work then


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## saadat68

I don't think can find them here 
No problem I will use flange but first must find a material for gasket. There is ceramic sheet/paper here but I don't know does it works or no
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Edit: 
Ceramic paper doesn't work. 

Can I use mica sheet? The water Absorption is <1%

I can solve all of problems If I could use fittings with some leak on bottom
I don't think these models are sealant completely 
http://rachel.golearn.us/modules/en-practical_action/Manufacturing,%20handicraft,%20process%20industries/Mining%20and%20Mineral%20Industries/KnO-100361_A%20simple%20retort/page1.html

http://www.bandmcrushers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Simple-retort-300x200.jpg


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## saadat68

Hi
This is own design. I want to build condenser like this design(*It is vertical*). Is there problem in this design ?
Thanks

http://uupload.ir/files/u7aa_fghjk.jpg


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## saadat68

I need some advise because I want to build my retort tomorrow 
Thanks


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## 4metals

That design looks fine, I would however continually have cold tap water flowing into the water cooling pot and overflowing to a drain. This is non contact cooling water so it has no chance of being contaminated with mercury. The one mistake I have seen often is the condenser is allowed to get too hot because the water is static in some designs and this limits the ability of the mercury to condense. Cold water flow fixes that.


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## saadat68

Thanks 4metals 
I decided use conventional design with few changes yesterday 
I try to finish it in 7 days and then add some pics 

I prefer to use condenser without circulation. For this goal I will build a bigger condenser and longer pipe than conventional design but if it doesn't work I add a pump for water circulation


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## Topher_osAUrus

saadat68 said:


> ... but if it doesn't work I add a pump for water circulation



Maybe this is a dumb question, but, isnt this something you want to be certain works the first time.?

...there may not be another try to fix any issues

Which begs another question-
How do you plan on finding out if it isnt working?


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## 4metals

> Maybe this is a dumb question, but, isnt this something you want to be certain works the first time.?



Our friend Mr Saadat seems to enjoy re-inventing the wheel. I cannot think of one thing he has asked about where he didn't have some reason why it had to be altered before he even tried it. 

Some guys like to live on the edge.


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## saadat68

Topher_osAUrus said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... but if it doesn't work I add a pump for water circulation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this is a dumb question, but, isnt this something you want to be certain works the first time.?
> 
> ...there may not be another try to fix any issues
> 
> Which begs another question-
> How do you plan on finding out if it isnt working?
Click to expand...


I just want to heat retort for 20 min and check water temp!
If water was hot so it doesn't work


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## saadat68

4metals said:


> Maybe this is a dumb question, but, isnt this something you want to be certain works the first time.?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our friend Mr Saadat seems to enjoy re-inventing the wheel. I cannot think of one thing he has asked about where he didn't have some reason why it had to be altered before he even tried it.
> 
> Some guys like to live on the edge.
Click to expand...


In some designs in web they don't have any condenser so I thought a condenser without circulation is enough
But If you say it must has circulation, OK I will add a pump


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## saadat68

Unfortunately I couldn't find a suitable gasket so I decide to use this design 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL9deyMSzs8&list=PL3abwjc2nPD9e1LNizx-4I8lFdph7dELo

http://uupload.ir/files/tdmh_img_20170818_165213.jpg

I don't like this design and also I don't like reinvent the wheel but I think I can increase efficiency with adding a pipe and condenser.

What do you think ?

http://uupload.ir/files/74ru_img_20170818_165213_-_copy.jpg


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## jason_recliner

Disclaimer: I haven't watched this and don't intend to waste 17 mins of my weekend doing so; I merely became aware of its existence a week or so ago. There may well be something useful in it for you as long as you also consider your safety, for I would not be surprised if it includes at least one instance of mercury with bare hands in it, making tea with it, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDwsY1yx8XI


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## butcher

saadat68,

The blue pipe (added there), drawn in your design (picture) would defeat the proper operation of the pipe retort. Do not mess with the welded sealed inner pipe.

actually you cant add it to the outer pipe where the torch is introducing flames and extremely hot gases.

The hot gases, and Hg fumes are condensed in the water at the bottom of the inner pipe and then after flowing through the small hole in the bottom of that pipe (below water level), the hot gases bubble up through the chilled water into the outer pipe, where the cooled non water soluble gases would enter up the outer pipe, where your torch would volatilize any combustible fumes. 

Good retorts are cheap and easy to buy, buy one, or stick with a known working design, do not alter it, there is science behind this, which you are unaware of, the working designs are made with these principles taken into account, and experimenting without a deep understanding of that science or principles would be well just a foolish thing to do, find a new one and be done with it, and keep your health to enjoy your gold..


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## saadat68

Thank you jason and butcher
Today I find a gasket that it's thermal resistance is 450 °C 
http://atbfa.sabaec.com/host/atbfa/newpdf/Ferolitespecial.pdf

I think it is good and can use it. Isn't it ?

So I can use conventional design 
http://nevada-outback-gems.com/Reference_pages/Retort01.jpg


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## butcher

Conventional design (in the picture you posted), works well if you use it properly. 

Understanding how to properly setup, and use the equipment is just as important as having the proper equipment. It does not work well or at all if used incorrectly.

Note:
In my opinion, I do see something wrong in the picture, the discharge pipe should not be under water.
If the retort is heated, and the temperature is lowered it will create a vacuum and suck back the cold water into the hot retort, which could shatter it in a possible implosion (backwards explosion). using a wet sock on the end of the discharge pipe --with the discharge pipe inside the wet sock but above water, and the lower part of the sock dipping into the water to keep it wet and cool.


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## saadat68

Thanks butcher yes I know palladium said me before
It is just image

I am worry about gasket. 450 centigrade temp resistance is enough ?


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## saadat68

I am very hopeless
My retort and also my burner don't work. Both of them don't work!!!
I just wast my time and my money.

This is my retort :
It has a little leak. ( very little )

http://uupload.ir/files/aazc_img_20170822_191519.jpg

http://uupload.ir/files/twcg_img_20170822_191525.jpg


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## butcher

If it is the gasket leaking , you can get high temp gasket papers, or make a copper gasket, and use powdered graphite mixed in a little motor oil to seal it. if it is in the weld drill or clean the hole and re-weld it.

The gasket (or copper) can be made with a ball pien hammer, holding the gasket sheet steady and hammering against the sharp edges of the steel to cut your gasket. for the center cut an X so the gasket is not pushed into the hole by the hammer, the bolt holes are first cut with the round part of the ball pien hammer, if they do not cut all the way through use one of your bolts to hammer it on through (like a paper punch).

You may also need to flatten your flange, start with a good flat file (not too coarse of teeth, hold the file flat when you file diagonally across the surface (forward direction only), then get a flat level board lay a glass pane on it, then a sheet of sandpaper, sand the flange on the paper in circular motions until the flange is flat as the glass.
If done right (all you may need) to seal it could just be the graphite and oil, not too much oil just make a thick paste to brush on the flange or gaskets, a thick layer is fine, the oil will burn out of the graphite...

You are not hopeless, and neither is your retort, or your burner, just do not give up so easily, you are almost there, you are just not finished yet. Unless you quit, quitters never win, persistence ( or trying until you get it will. Where would we be today if Edison, and others quit when things did not go right (the first or the hundredth time they tried)? We would still be reading by the campfires in our caves.

You are almost there I can see light at the end of the tunnel (Cave).


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## canedane

Saadat, if you make the gasket out of cobber like Butcher told, heat it up with a gas burner and drop it into water, the cobber will be soft again, and will be a better gasket.
Henrik


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## butcher

Thanks, Henrik good point.

Copper is work hardened by hammering or bending...
Annealing the copper as canedane recommends would be important to soften the work hardened copper.


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## snoman701

Keep your copper gasket small. You only want it to be about a centimeter wide. If you can make one out of say, 4 or 6mm copper wire, and solder the ends together with silver solder, then anneal it, it'll be best.


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## butcher

I was thinking more copper sheet.

If I done it that way using copper wire, I would overlap the ends of the wire (the solder could melt during operation).


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## snoman701

Sorry, long time jewelery mistake....silver braze. Silver solder is sold in four grades...super easy, easy, medium and hard 

My point was just to minimize the surface area of the gasket so that you get greater sealing force at the gasket interface. The nice thing about the #6 copper wire is that it will flatten right out, and in the process, form a super tight seal.


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## saadat68

butcher said:


> If done right (all you may need) to seal it could just be the graphite and oil, not too much oil just make a thick paste to brush on the flange or gaskets, a thick layer is fine, the oil will burn out of the graphite...



Thanks all
I don't understand
Do I use copper gasket and graphite powder together to seal retort ?
I like to make copper gasket and test it if it doesn't need graphite powder

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My gasket wasn't soft 
http://atbfa.sabaec.com/host/atbfa/newpdf/Aerolite1000.pdf
http://uupload.ir/files/ifsz_img_20170824_133534.jpg

Yesterday when I opened my retort and flanges, I saw the gasket has been very softer than before so I decided to test retort again with water and it works.  
But I must close flanges very tight with screws


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## butcher

The graphite gasket you have will work with flat flanges, bolted together, you can keep it in good condition and reusable by using the powdered graphite and a little oil, we discussed.

pencil lead, is not lead, but it is made from (carbon) graphite, it is more trouble than buying powered graphite, but you can split several pencils and powder the black (lead) graphite, mix to a paste with a tiny bit of oil, and use it for a high temp gasket sealant, and corrosion inhibitor. It can be used with many different types of gaskets,to help make them seal better, in high temperature applications, even the copper gaskets...

besides being a sealant, and corrosion inhibitor, it is also a great lubricant to keep parts or fitting (threads...) from seizing or galling under the higher working temperatures...

If you use it to lube locks (one use for powdered graphite lubricants) (and a possible source for small amounts of the black powder), do not use oil with any graphite in a lock mechanism. Use the graphite powder dry, oil can collect dirt in a locks mechanism.


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## saadat68

OK, Understood
Thank you 
As you said my gasket has some graphite and it is cheap just 3$. Graphite powder is not and I don't think can find it, But I can buy a graphite gasket that after what you said it will be a better sealer

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What happen if retort has a very little leak? For example 5 drop of water in 30 minute with below conditions 

I want to add one kilo cemented silver from silver oxide batteries in retort that it may contains 2 to 4 gram of mercury. 
I think there isn't pressure in retort, So if sometimes retort has a little leak, does mercury go out from retort? Is it dangerous ?


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## butcher

The pencils (you write with) are made of graphite powders, the black part that makes the black lines on paper.
the gasket you have are made from graphite powders and a bonding (glue) compounds.
The old used up gaskets you have could be used for a source of graphite powders...


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## snoman701

If you have stores that sell art supplies, you can usually get a large chunk of graphite to draw with, or even powdered graphite in a jar.

Another source that might be easy to find in a junk yard is carbon brushes from motors.


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## Topher_osAUrus

Farm supply stores sell graphite powder


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## saadat68

Thanks all
I got it 
Now I must fix my burner 
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8471&p=276311#p276311


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