# Newbi q on tin oxide > tin cloride



## Wyndham (Jun 14, 2008)

As a potter I have some tin oxide and would think there is an easy way to make my stannous chloride but how to go about it.
I also have a large supply of zinc metal powder that I think would be useful to drop out gold in AR but is there another reaction that Zinc would benefit in 
Lastly I've tried to watch the videos but they don't load up, is there a WM player version that I need, I have win 2000 w latest player and service pack.
I'm just starting to learn and am very interested in how it all works together. Wyndham


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## Harold_V (Jun 14, 2008)

Wyndham said:


> As a potter I have some tin oxide and would think there is an easy way to make my stannous chloride but how to go about it.



It may be that you can not use the oxide for stannous chloride. You'll have to wait for the opinion of those that understand chemistry well. 



> I also have a large supply of zinc metal powder that I think would be useful to drop out gold in AR



That's not a good idea at all, unless you are trying to recover values from a batch that has gone bad and does not respond to common (selective)precipitants. 

Zinc is not selective, so you'll precipitate copper along with gold, plus anything else of value. Look at zinc for use in a recovery process, not a refining process. 

Harold


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## Wyndham (Jun 14, 2008)

Thanks, I wanted a cheap way to create tin chloride for my pottery ingredient as stannous chloride is not available locally.
The other question I have is about the sulphuric acid + hydrogen peroxide, It seems in the few post I read that in 12 v cell that everything below gold is dissolved into solution and some post remark on a black gold powder in the bottom of the cell as , if I have it correct, gold plating floating from the cell reaction. I must have something wrong or mixed up 2 or more methods???
Wyndham


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## Harold_V (Jun 15, 2008)

Wyndham said:


> Thanks, I wanted a cheap way to create tin chloride for my pottery ingredient as stannous chloride is not available locally.
> The other question I have is about the sulphuric acid + hydrogen peroxide, It seems in the few post I read that in 12 v cell that everything below gold is dissolved into solution and some post remark on a black gold powder in the bottom of the cell as , if I have it correct, gold plating floating from the cell reaction. I must have something wrong or mixed up 2 or more methods???
> Wyndham



Sounds to me like you've mixed two operations----one that dissolves base metals, the other that strips gold from base metals. 

As I refined only with nitric acid and AR, I'll leave the answer to someone that has experience with those two processes. I don't want to lead you astray, and I'm afraid that's all I'd do if I responded with what I think. 

Harold


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## OMG (Jun 15, 2008)

The 4 types of processes people mainly talk about on this site are:
AR - aqua regia - for dissolving all metals
AP - acid/peroxide - uses muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide to eat away at the metals underneath of gold plated circuits, etc.
(this is the one that leaves little foils of gold floating on this surface of the AP mix.
AC - acid/chlorine or HCl-Cl - uses muriatic and bleach to dissolve all metals
Reverse Plating Cell - uses sulfuric acid with the gold plated items as the anode (or connected to the anode) and kicks the gold off of the items and leaves it as black sludge in the bottom of the electrolyte tank.


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## OMG (Jun 15, 2008)

I don't know about the tin oxide(black powder) to stannous chloride. I would think it should, but Tin is weird.
Just mix some up and see if it works.


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## Wyndham (Jun 15, 2008)

> Reverse Plating Cell - uses sulfuric acid with the gold plated items as the anode (or connected to the anode) and kicks the gold off of the items and leaves it as black sludge in the bottom of the electrolyte tank.


So does this method only kick off the gold or after the gold then the base metals?
I have a titanium anodizing unit that is a transformer and a variable resistor about like the old scale trains of the past.
The reverse e plating, can it work with battery sulphuric acid or does it need to concentrate to a higher % and is this where the copper screen or basket come into play to hold the pins.
After you deplate, then you dilute then filter to recover the gold. Would you then put in a crucible and reduce with flux and flour as in a assay or what other path to get the gold.
Since I have the titanium unit, I'm leaning to try this, if there is an ideal amp please let me know. Thanks. I'm starting to see a light at the end of the train tunnel, OMG, it's a train :lol: 
Wyndham


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## Lino1406 (Jun 19, 2008)

1. The cell - dissolves 1stly other metals
leaving the gold which is the noblest
2. Stannic oxide - you can't transform
to stannous chloride. But it would be intaresting
if at 1127C it transforms to Tin
3. Zinc - is good for cementation - that is
rejecting silver from silver chloride in sulphuric
acid, also many pm's from their cyanide salts


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## Harold_V (Jun 19, 2008)

Wyndham said:


> So does this method only kick off the gold or after the gold then the base metals?


In theory, only the values are recovered. Amperage decreases as the values are stripped. 



> The reverse e plating, can it work with battery sulphuric acid or does it need to concentrate to a higher % and is this where the copper screen or basket come into play to hold the pins.


My understanding is that the sulfuric should have a specific gravity of 1.68 (I could be wrong, I'm trusting to memory). Sulfuric, as used in batteries, is too dilute----but many of these guys buy in in bulk from auto supply stores, then concentrate by evaporation. 



> After you deplate, then you dilute then filter to recover the gold. Would you then put in a crucible and reduce with flux and flour as in a assay or what other path to get the gold.


All depends on your objective. If it is for fine gold, melting the recovered material is a mistake. 

While, in theory, only values are extracted in a cell, the harsh reality is that traces of contaminants find their way into the gold as well. You have a golden opportunity to reprocess the recovered values before melting. They can be easily washed by boiling in dilute nitric (after incineration), then dissolved by the method of your choosing, and precipitated after filtering. By this approach, you have the best chance of producing fine gold. Be certain to include a vigorous washing procedure after the final precipitation, which will remove the majority of drag down contamination. 

If, by chance, you have no concern about the quality of the recovered values from the stripping cell----you can melt them directly by melting under a heavy flux cover. I don't advise doing so------it's much easier to purify the recovered values before they are melted. 

Harold


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## Wyndham (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks Harold for the in depth response. It takes me several times going over some of the same stuff for it to stick, but in my defense, this is more important than a cake recipe and I know little mistakes can led to big problems.
It is very appreciated that those with the level of knowledge that they have, share with all. Wyndham


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## markqf1 (Jun 20, 2008)

Wyndham,
Cake recipes are every bit as much of chemistry as refining is.
But it sure is a whole lot less expensive to make a mistake.  

Mark


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