# chloroauric acid



## teddy garcia (Dec 24, 2011)

hello forumer's
im teddy garcia from the philippines, i want to ask if chloroauric acid has been spilled on a clay surface soil and the soil sip it in and lasted for about a year ,can it still be recovered to gold?
secondly if gold powder ( thru precipitation ) mix in soil can it still be recovered?
thank you very much for explaining in advance !


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## Geo (Dec 24, 2011)

i see no reason the gold cant be reclaimed if its in a confined space. it may be difficult because of the form it was in, auric chloride from what i understand will convert back to elemental gold in the presence of organics and clay and soil should have alot of organic material.some of the other members may be able to help with a process to reclaim the gold.


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## jimdoc (Dec 24, 2011)

Has the soil been rained on over this year period? That would probably affect the answer. I would think that rain would carry the gold away or spread it around.

Jim


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## teddy garcia (Dec 24, 2011)

thanks so much for the answer guys !
i guess i will have to show you the clay that i was pertaining too, it turned rusty colored and i think some precipated gold was stuck in it? i really dont know
but yes sometime it rains.
i just got some history that someone wants to conceale some gold and dissolve it thru aqua regia 
and hid it on this small property, i tried digging for it and i found this type of clay?
sounds funny and unbelievable but its true...


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## jimdoc (Dec 24, 2011)

I think if someone was going to hide some "liquid gold" they would have it in a plastic tank to avoid metal detectors finding it. As that is probably their point in hiding it as liquid. I think if it was to leak out it would have a certain smell to it?

Jim


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## philddreamer (Dec 24, 2011)

Hi Teddy!

Who was processing; what happened, how did it leak; & how much do you think is in the ground?

Phil

P.S. Okay, after re-reading, I understand that someone tried to hide the gold by dissolving it. I read that in Europe, during the WWII, gold was dissolved I hidden in plain sight from the the German troops, they couldn't identify the liquid that was in front of them.


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## teddy garcia (Dec 24, 2011)

i got history that someone wants to conceal a hidden loot bigtime, and afraid that it would be discovered.. but i could not prove it yet...as of this time
there are some symbols left buried..
but i got some of them just like this broken glass in which i think a sign og kings water or aqua regia? ( just my own assumption guys )


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## jimdoc (Dec 24, 2011)

Lots of whiskey bottles had crowns on them, I doubt anyone would make a bottle for aqua regia and mark it with a crown. I have old newsletters on treasure hunting that had a book chapter at the end of each. They told of an old guy that hid his gold in "liquid form" tanks underground. I am pretty sure it was fiction, but it made you wonder.

Jim


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## philddreamer (Dec 24, 2011)

Teddy should have some of the dirt asseyed; the purple color might just be indicating the presence of gold. It would be the way to prove the presence or absence of any PM, I would think...

Phil


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## teddy garcia (Dec 24, 2011)

thanks so much phil and everybody out there, i will try to find people who knew somthing about refining here in the philippines
i already had about 100 sacks of this rusted clay it starts at 40 feet deep and ends at 50 feet and they are a top of a 5 feet thick wooden boards
i also found this symol "deposit" in a broken dark brown reddish bottle..


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## qst42know (Dec 24, 2011)

Toxic waste dump site? 

Beware of mystery drums of who knows what. It was the "old" way to deal with hazmat troubles.


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## jimdoc (Dec 24, 2011)

Deposit just means that you had to put a certain amount, say 5¢ deposit, that you would get back when you returned the empty bottle.

Jim


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## philddreamer (Dec 24, 2011)

Could he make a simple test with stannous?
If it was AR, if he takes a clumb of the clay, placed it in a heating vessel,
added some HCl, applied some heat, then stannous test? 
Would that give him a clue?

Phil


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## teddy garcia (Dec 24, 2011)

i found some theeth with gold fillings and crown in it..stuck in the clay,i'm not familiar with any chemical treatment to check presence of gold in the clay . besides we are short of technology here in PI , some gold was not attack by the acid i presumed
maybe someones in a hurry back then and not cautious enough to finish the job, i am just wondering if indeed there is chloroauric gold present in the clay would i still be able to recover and pull it out it as metal? is there such a procedure?


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## philddreamer (Dec 24, 2011)

Now that looks better. It seems to give some positive clues. Others with more experience could give you better expert information that I can.

Phil


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## teddy garcia (Dec 24, 2011)

thanks a lot phil, will have to test the clay's . to realy find a way,will ask around..


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## qst42know (Dec 24, 2011)

Did you stumble on a hidden grave?

Acid would not have effected the man made porcelain but would have eaten the roots off that tooth.

This is getting very strange.


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## teddy garcia (Dec 24, 2011)

no it is not a hidden grave sir, the location is a ww2 camp,


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## philddreamer (Dec 24, 2011)

Teddy, I'm not an expert on testing soil or ores, but, this is what I would do if I was you. 
First, find some tin (stannous), no lead in it, 95% tin minimum. Also some hydrochlouric acid, (muriatic). 
Take 5grams of stannous & dissolve in 30ml of muriatic acid. This solution is stannous chlouride & it is used to test the presence of precious metals, by dipping a cotton swab into the stannous solution & then in the "suspected solution". Gold will give a purple color, black if gold content is higher. 

Now, take a couple of ounces of the clay, break it into powder & place it in a glass coffee pot.
Add muriatic acid until all the powder is under the acid.
Apply heat until a light boil starts, then lower the heat.
At this point, take the cotton swab & dip it in the stannous solution,
then touch the clay solution & tell us the color on the swab tip.

Be careful handling the chemicals!!! They can kill you & you won't be able to enjoy your gold! (If indeed you find any)

Take care & be safe!

Please, GRF experts, could you share your advised!

Phil


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## qst42know (Dec 24, 2011)

A prison camp?

In that case these remains belong to their respective families.

Is there a POW MIA agency there?


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## teddy garcia (Dec 24, 2011)

i will list down the chemicals and find where to buy it phil, and follow your instructions carefuly,i will take pictures of the process and post here the results.. thank you very much
PS 
will take some samples to a gold refinery here for assay also
but my concern is maybe they are not familiar with this kind of situation.
anyway i'll try

my suspicion is someone dissolve golds here back then
i keep finding buried crucibles and different kinds of broken laboratory bottles


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## teddy garcia (Dec 24, 2011)

i dont know sir..about MIA agency's


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## butcher (Dec 24, 2011)

I have to agree with Quest4toknow, the remains (teeth) should be returned to family, But I wonder if they would ever get to the family, if they are turned into authority's, I really doubt it, unless someone would do DNA testing on all of the prisoners family, and then the teeth, and many of these men we probably had no record of them being in that prison camp, or what happened to them? could these be one mans teeth (you said not a grave, and I do not think a prisoner would be buried with gold, if he was sick and had gold teeth falling out he would trade them for food or supplys, but I do not think these men were in camp long before any thing value was taken from them including gold in their teeth(that is if they had not had everything taken from them before they ever got to this camp), i the guard's would probably broken their teeth out of the prisoners mouth’s or pulled them, by order of officers, these are probably teeth from several prisoners (and you may find more) this I think would be the buried treasure you seek not some liquid, or powder, although a possibility).

If they were using aqua regia they may have been recovering the gold (you said you found melting crucibles, to me this means they were most likely melting it back into gold), now I do not think officers or people high in rank would want or need to hide gold in liquid form, but maybe a guard doing the work (for the officer), may have been steeling some of the officers loot. like buried teeth, or maybe a bottle of aqua regia or precipitated gold powder, a metal detector, and maps of the camp may yield clues on where to look, the bottles could have been anything, not necessarily acids, but the crucibles are more likely close to where the values may have been processed, where from there did guards sleep, and use the toilet? People are like animals they use the same trails, over and over most every day until something changes their pattern, find the guards trails to his hiding spot.


Can you find any old map of prison camp? Where guards lived and prisoners were kept other buildings (or clues building foundations) (trash dumps) fence lines or wire?


being gold in a war camp the guards may have been pulling prisoners teeth and any value they had, they may have been using aqua regia to dissolve the gold on site, and melting it, but I do not think they would have buried the liquid or dumped it into the ground, (could be wrong) they would dump the waste liquid though, and could have buried some gold.

If you have heard these stories about this place, many other people most likely have heard the story too, and many people may have searched for the hidden treasure. Unless something happened to the man who hid it (he would have went back and got it), most treasure stories (probably have no treasure), but the gold capped teeth are a good indicator some one did not get all of this (are these teeth gold? Or could they not have been gold (or look like valuable metals, and were discarded and not worth processing?), Maybe another clue?).


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## jimdoc (Dec 24, 2011)

For those of you that enjoy reading about treasure.
Here is a link to the book I was referring to earlier in this thread;

E. Earl Webb's
Secret Things, Secret Places 

http://treasuresecrets.com/id29.htm

There are 18 chapters and I think they get to the old mans gold in the ground around chapter 12.

The newsletter used to be very good, but I stopped getting them a few years ago.
He sends them to me free a lot now, I guess since I subscribed for so long.
The latest one was really good about old copper.

It really is worth it if you are a true treasure hunter.
Home page;
http://treasuresecrets.com/id26.htm

A while back the website showed the same Google warning that the forum did for a while.
But it looks like it is fixed now.

Jim


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## patnor1011 (Dec 24, 2011)

I hope your story do not involve Gen.Yamashita. There were way too many schemes even here, when one gentleman was in possession of a map with location and even weight of gold hidden in tons on about 40+ places. 

I just dont understand one thing in your story. If somebody want to hide big amount of gold - dissolved why would they pour that in ground? 40-50 feet deep? Who would dig that deep hole and then do not store liquid in proper containers? 
It rather seems like disposing - hiding waste not like hiding anything of value.


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## Smack (Dec 25, 2011)

Sounding like Nazi activity there...


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

i cannot answer all your questions. i may know little of whatever happened here 68 years ago, my little knowledge that it is in fact a ww2 camp. but not prisoner of war camp..
i am not soliciting anything.. i need just a little knowledge about recovering precipitated gold from clay layer just in case .. or chloroauric acid was dump into the clay
justin in case , just in case ,there is something of value that was put chemically in the layers.

yes i dug 60 feet deep it is because i am amazed to what i found, each layer is 10 feet thick all different colors and different materials..in fact i can assure it is not normal and it was man made. who did it and why did it still remains a mystery to me..
it is that i found this rusty yellow orange clay at 50 feet down to sixty and my workers starts to have acid burns all over their hands and feet that i felt there must have been contamination or acid in this layer.

beside the numerous colors of clay layers that i found that must be a result of chemical contamination
and a layer of sand that has gold glitters all over..

i shall post my pictures not for any reason but to answer some of our questions of what this could be..i am not an expert of anything chemically

i will follow what mr Phil instructed me to do..check the clay maybe just maybe there is something worthwhile considering all the abnormalities.

thank you very much people for the suggestions and advices, i realy do appreciate it


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

green clay 10 feet thick


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

blue clay 10 feet thick


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

white coarse sand with charcoal 10 feet thick


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

sand with gold dust colored metals


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

this are the wooden boards 5 feet thick compressed under..the layer of this rusty clay i was pertaining to was a top of this thick wooden boards brushed or sprayed with asphalt. it is like holding the load of the rusted layer.. i cleaned the asphalt and lime to expose the wood in the photo


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

this is the last layer i got that was sitting on a five foot thick wooden planks.. IF just IF by chance there is some chloroauric liquid spilled here or any amount of precipitated noble metals as the case maybe... is it possible to recover it at this point? or would have it expired?
thank you very much and more power!


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## qst42know (Dec 25, 2011)

You may want to consider this could be a chemical dump for a munitions factory. As such you may be exposing your workers to all sorts of toxins. This might only be some Army's liability you are digging in.

Your crucible looks like an ordinary red clay building brick to me.


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## Harold_V (Dec 25, 2011)

qst42know said:


> Your crucible looks like an ordinary red clay building brick to me.


Yes, I agree, it does look like nothing more than a brick. It would serve very poorly for melting. 

This entire thing is a little strange. Brings to mind the Oak Island pit, although somewhat different. 

Harold


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## Photobacterium (Dec 25, 2011)

qst42know said:


> Did you stumble on a hidden grave?
> 
> Acid would not have effected the man made porcelain but would have eaten the roots off that tooth.
> 
> This is getting very strange.



yes. reminds me of some episodes of NCIS.


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## publius (Dec 25, 2011)

I am a construction inspector by trade. This is what I'll use as a basis for my opinion.

The brick is a brick. The depression serves two functions. One, it reduces the volume of clay required to make the brick. Two, it adds a better structural bond between each each course of bricks.

The other experience I would like to relate is from a conversion of an old railroad switch yard to a shopping center, here in northern Virginia. Along with the marine clay (that is pale green) the contractor discovered ash pits that were 11 feet deep or deeper. One of the issues that posed the greatest hazard and cost the most in time and additional monies was the abatement of arsenic associated with the ash pits.

My point in writing this is that there may be hazards that are hidden and may need to be further investigated...


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## patnor1011 (Dec 25, 2011)

I would advise you to have assay done. Try to send samples of your yellow clay and powder with golden looking metal to few places. You may send some samples to Japan, Australia, England, USA. It will take some time but you are dealing with unknown and you invest your time and money to something which may or may not prove to be worth of doing. With results it will be much easier to choose appropriate method. 
To have this material assayed (the best is to do it on few places to have option of comparing results) is the best what you can do as this and only this will tell you what to do next.


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## butcher (Dec 25, 2011)

It seems you may be mining a dump site, the green clay may be high in copper, as well as the blue clay, the yellow or brown may be high in iron, who knows the sand and gold dust could be brass?

You can test these clays for metals (as some of the colors of these "clays" look like fairly pure metal salts you can test for metals in them using acid tests, and flame tests, you can also tests for acids like chlorides sulfates and so on in these metal salts.

There should be some record of what was in this area (chemical weapons factory, prison camp, chemical plants, or whatever), I think searching history for the area may give some clue of what you are digging into. talk to the elderly people they may be able to tell you what happened there.

the dental work found, and this metal salt chemical dump in this location is good clues to almost verifying the use of aqua regia story, to dissolve gold in the area, the clays may just be dangerous acidic metal salts (waste), may just contain base metals, so an assay would be worth doing.

Without knowing what you’re digging into you may be putting yourself and others in danger.

How close is this camp dump site from wells, people use to drink from, they may be being slowly poisoned by this site, even digging into it may spread the contamination (if heavy rains come).

look at this as contaminated soil, not a treasure hunt, be very careful of what you do, study, and get help from others, who may be able to do testing, find out what this is and how to deal with it properly, please be very careful, if there is gold I hope you find it, but if this is just a dangerous chemical dump I hope you deal with it properly to keep people from getting sick, or cancer or poisoned slowly from it.


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## jimdoc (Dec 25, 2011)

I think you should be using gloves when dealing with those unknown substances. Holding them in your bare hands could cause you problems. Butcher is right, don't let the dream of treasure blind you from the harsh reality of what you may be digging in. 

Jim


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

this is turning to be a trasure hunt forum.. i am very sorry to brought up my findings here
i truly appreciate you guys here giving me your precious wisdom and analysis. this is a great forum with great people

i understand not to focus too much in what is valuable but instead focus to what is unknown with caution.
i had panned out my glitters in the sand maybe a year or so...tested it with acetelyne .. after a while it turned to glowing red
and melted like a blob of something gold colored...after which when it cooled down it returned to its original form again ( gold dust ) i have plenty of this material it is so visible that the ratio of one spoon full of sand is 20% of it..

it cant be eaten by nitric acid..i took it to 2 top metal refining companies for testing but the result is negative for gold.. i ask them what metal is it? they answered they have no idea...that how it is here in our country, we are lacking of proper technology in metal assaying

but i also have small quantitiy of real gold finds like for example when we were at 38 to going 39 feet we found an small incencse holder
with a couple of gram of dental gold..still attached to a teeth. 
another five feet or so.. i found a 4 gram of meleted gold like a small bullet.. mixed in clay.. tested it for 21k.

i realy think that chemistry can unlock some of the mystery and at the same time warn us in upcoming health dangers.

ps
my grandfather owns the whole property since 1929
but only driven out by occupying military personel at the outbreak of the pacific war
and reclaimed it after US forces won the war.


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

4 grams in clay


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## butcher (Dec 25, 2011)

You can learn to do some of your own testing
search for books on assaying and chemically testing of metals, analysis of anion and cations.

http://www.rod.beavon.clara.net/anions.htm

http://www.docbrown.info/page13/ChemicalTests/ChemicalTestsc.htm

http://www.mcla.edu/Undergraduate/uploads/textWidget/1712.00001/documents/Section_11.pdf

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=flame+tests+for+metals&oq=flame+tests+for+metals&aq=f&aqi=g3g-v2g-j4g-b1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=5609l17203l1l17672l39l27l0l6l6l3l234l2904l5.13.2l21l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=214f322f61c06282&biw=1152&bih=660


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

melting


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

melting turned red liquid


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

melting turns to a blob of metal


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## philddreamer (Dec 25, 2011)

Teddy, don't melt on metal. If you have any precious metal, it can stick to the spoon, (stainless steel) & then you will have trouble recovering it!
You ned to get a melting dish & coat it or glaze it with borax. 

Phil


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## teddy garcia (Dec 25, 2011)

some dental gold i already cleaned with water mix in clay along the way down


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## RGJohn (Jan 8, 2012)

teddy garcia said:


> some dental gold i already cleaned with water mix in clay along the way down


 I think that 'tooth' is too large to be 'dental gold' if my understanding of dental gold is correct. I associate that term with human dentition. This looks more like gold holders for animal teeth. Maybe some kind of necklace.
-----
Is your assumption regarding chlorauric acid and the clay really of more interest to you than the substantial amount of gold in the tooth photo? And if so, why? You would search for gold where there is no indication of any while ignoring that which is in your hands. Curious priorities.


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## qst42know (Jan 8, 2012)

> I think that 'tooth' is too large to be 'dental gold' if my understanding of dental gold is correct. I associate that term with human dentition. This looks more like gold holders for animal teeth. Maybe some kind of necklace.




Those are human teeth. The long one a front incisor including root.

http://www.uic.edu/classes/orla/orla312/INCISORS.htm


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## Rogerwirecable (Jan 12, 2012)

I was stationed at Clark AFB 25 or better years ago, quite often we would find remains, bombs, ammo, dog tags. If you are near Clark or Angles City, the POW camp is Camp O'Donnel. A Large number of US service men died there along with 3X as many Phillipino's. The Old Clark AFB still has VA administrations there taking care of the cemitary on the base. I know the gold fever is tough but do what you feel in your heart. Just my thoughts

Roger
(Ret.) MSGT USAF 1979-2000


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## teddy garcia (Jan 31, 2012)

thank you very much for the valuable precautions and advices to the nice people in this great forum !
am ok now and thankful to all ! specialy to phildreamer, again thanks and stay safe everybody !


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## donnybrook (Feb 1, 2012)

Interesting experiment. Firstly I think if the gold was in AR and it was spilled onto clay and if the clay contained iron and other metals within the periodic table then the gold would possibly have precipitated unless it lost its chlorine factor over time. The advice on stannous chloride is excellent but I would however weigh say 10 ounces of clay and redissolve this by boiling with AR. Go through the filtration procedure and use urea to drive of the nitric then add sodiumetabisulphite to see that it precipitates.Let it settle and filter. That should give a result. But SC is a positive test. Those are my thoughts only I am not a Chemist.
donnybrook


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

thank you donnybrook

i read many articles about using aqua and precipitaing gold out of it from computer pins , celphones , etc etc...and i tried to do it after avery long practice and guidance from mr phildreamer, i failed twice bringing out nothing but brownish sludges and when dried and fired just evaporates..breathed some fumes and had minor acid burns in my hands..each trial process teaches me a lesson in precaution, safety and leaves me thinking on what might went wrong in my procedure..i never surrendered because i always got positive results when i test my digested solutions in stannous chloride.

i had two samples of clay in different depth levels , all had different color and properties, which i digested in AR individually
one yeilds out purple , and the other sample yeilds out yellow orange
im half finish expirementing with the purple sample now and extracted 1 almost one gram of gold in a 10 gram clay sample but i felt i could have extracted more gold if i didnt rush things ( anyway its just a trial ).. i only digested the sample in ar for half and hour, filtered it , going thru all the process finaly adding SMB but after stirring when i saw the powder drop in the bottom ( never waited long ) and dropping the Au. dring it, then firing it with torch getting elemental gold

i also discarded a lot of samples digested in AR...... the solution that might contain gold or different metals.
i will post some pictures of my expirements
i never tried ar heard AR all my life until now.. so please bear with my bo boo's and mistakes


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

making AR with hydrochloric acid and nitric acid following the molar ratio


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

my stannous test from my first clay material


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

my second sample digested in AR stannous test


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

after all the procedures adding smb in my purple result sample


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

this is what i got at the bottom


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

filtering and drying the powder


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

firing my dried powder wrap in filter paper


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

i heard a cracking sound not knowing that my crucible broke after wich i turned off the heat and saw my button of gold


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

here it is from a 10 gram sample of clay,
thanks to the tutorial and guidance of phildreamer and all great forumers here.
but i know this is only an experiment, got to learn more and try again.


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

here it is in a closer view, ( honestly i never tested it if it was realy gold ) just kept it in my drawer


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## butcher (Feb 1, 2012)

You need melting dish it is not the same as the ceramic crucible for lab work.
I like the pictures, looks like your making good progress.

Can you get the melting dish from your area or from website's. Laser Steve sells them also.


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## teddy garcia (Feb 1, 2012)

thank you butcher ! i will do that
this are my chemicals and solutions and things
i am doing it only on sundays


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## teddy garcia (Feb 2, 2012)

making stannous chloride solution


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## teddy garcia (Feb 2, 2012)

soft boil the sample in AR for 30 minutes


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## patnor1011 (Feb 2, 2012)

If I may advise I would like to point that you need something like catch pan on your heater. Do not heat acidic solutions in glass directly on hot plate. In case they break you may have catastrophe at hand. Not only that you will lose values, you may have splash accident and you will destroy that hot plate too. Use ceramic dish plate with sand. That will contain any spill when (not if) your glass jar break. I use square ceramic container - something like this one:
http://manila.olx.com.ph/corningware-french-white-baking-pan-4pc-iid-101029901
filled with water and with few pieces of cotton gauze like this:
http://www.globaltextiles.com/html/images/upload/tradeleads/584/583640.jpg
and my container with chemicals placed on top of that gauze.

Also if you make your stannous from anhydrous tin chloride crystals there is no need to heat that at all. Tin chloride powder will dissolve in HCl without any problem, in fact it will dissolve even in water and you can add small amount of HCl and piece of tin later to keep it fresh for longer time.


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## butcher (Feb 2, 2012)

Put a flat plate of metal (or screen wire), between stove burner and your glass.

Set stove in something like tub to catch spill if glass breaks, I use fiberglass tray to set my stove on.

Nice lab, I will bet you can not wait untill sunday to be a chemist.


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## teddy garcia (Feb 2, 2012)

ha ha its my garrage butchet, i set up there
patnor 1011 thanks for valuable advices together with butcher , will follow your instructions


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## teddy garcia (Feb 19, 2012)

hello again great people

i recently tested one of my unknown ores, powder it first then i first wash with HCL for 10 minutes ( soft boil )
then decant and put my ore in AR solution
medium boil for approx 2 and a half hours
after cooling tried to swab the solution twice in a cotton and in a tissue paper in my stannous chloride
( 2grams tin powder in 30 ml of HCL )

and i get confused with the color result

since i dont know what is in my ore i guess the colors in stannous test will tell if i should heat more time to dissolve more any values?

thank you very much !


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## teddy garcia (Feb 19, 2012)

powder it first


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## teddy garcia (Feb 19, 2012)

in AR digest


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## teddy garcia (Feb 19, 2012)

this is the solution after filtering


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## teddy garcia (Feb 19, 2012)

my stannous test
in cotton


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## teddy garcia (Feb 19, 2012)

and in a doubled layer tissue paper
thank you very much 
more power to all !


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## Geo (Feb 19, 2012)

it doesnt look like gold.


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## teddy garcia (Feb 19, 2012)

yes geo. sad to say i guess no gold in the solution at all


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## teddy garcia (Feb 19, 2012)

what do you think sir's , shall i continue to precipitate my unknown solution? i was thinking that it might be iron sulphides or ferrous sulphides that is giving me a reddish orange solution, and a brownish yellow light orange color in stannous testing, and i am also thinking that it might had some values in it and i just didnt give it enough time to be heated or boiled, can i have some peice of advice? many thanks !


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## butcher (Feb 19, 2012)

teddy garcia,

If testing were showing negative results I would not try and spend time getting nothing.

Also you need to make sure your testing procedure works, did you use a Known standard to test your testing solution's.
Was there free oxidizer or some other cause in condition of your acid solution that would make the test method not work, or like other metals in solution masking the color of the reaction?

Is this the best or only way to test for values in this ore, or would a fire assay be a better choice?

Was the ore roasted and sulfide converted before leaching the ore?

Did your leach only leach out the Iron and leave the values if any behind, that is if the ore had values to begin with?

Before trying to precipitate any thing else from this solution, I would try a different test on it, take a small sample and (make sure the excess oxidizer is removed from the sample) use a spot plate or white plastic spoon, add a few drops of the solution, put a crystal of ferrous sulfate in it, see if there is a brown ring around crystal (gold), after this reacts, take an eye dropper and remove the liquid on the outside from this brown ring (more clear solution from this spot plate), put this drop of liquid on Q-tip or filter paper and retest this drop with stannous chloride, to see if you may by chance have some kind of PGM.

If negative, I would consider not wasting more time trying to get something from nothing.
Look into maybe a fire assay of the ore, or some other test to determine if it has value, if it does show positive for value you may also have to experiment to find a leach process that works to get the values out.

The color of the solution does look very interesting and looks like it may contain values, but looks can be very deceiving.


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## teddy garcia (Feb 19, 2012)

thank you very much for the much needed advices butcher, fire assays cost much here maybe around $140 for the test, by following your advice i guess i will have more confirmation, i knew nothing about the content of the clay ore, but i had a preminilary washing of the sample by dilluting it with HCL and applying medium heat on a hot plate for 10 to 15 minutes i suppose and decanting the HCL before digesting it in a new AR solution.

usually experience refiners like you and a lot more in this forum had a reliable and trained eye by looking at a stannous test color and by looking at the solution. it might not be a hundred percent but i trust your personal opinions.

best regards


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## butcher (Feb 19, 2012)

Teddy Garcia,
Sometimes tests can be hard to judge, or then other times there is no doubt, sometimes something may interfere with the tests. 

You should be able to do your own fire assay, it takes just a little study, to make the flux, you can use a collector metal like lead, melt, pour into cone mold, break off slag glass, then cupel lead button, and use acids to part the metals, your home assay may not be as accurate as one done by a professional, but it can be good enough to tell you if this ore is worth working on.



A simple test in the field for gold in sulfide ore:
Any gold sulfide ore may be dissolved by fusion with a pinch of powdered mineral, in a surplus mix of one part ammonium chloride and 2.5 parts of ammonium nitrate,
The melted fusion is cooled, then dissolved in a few drops of HCl hydrochloric acid, putting a drop of this solution on filter paper, and a drop of stannous chloride added, a red to violet color indicates presence of gold 
This will not tell you how much is present, but can be an indicator of the presence of gold.


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## teddy garcia (Feb 23, 2012)

thank you very much for your words of advices butcher,........... can iron sulfite in an ore ( excessive ) hamper any detection from stannous testing? and can hamper dropping of the values? ...........i would like to know what is the color of an iron sulfite once digested in aqua regia as the case maybe,
is there a way to get rid of the sulfites before proceeding to aqua regia so the ore is free from hindrances to be check by stannous and precipitate?

best regards !


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## butcher (Feb 23, 2012)

Iron sulfites do not break down in acids easily, sometimes there may be gold locked up in the structure of iron sulfides, leaching without converting the sulfides (by roasting) will not leach this bound up gold, but free gold in the ore can be leached.

Grinding to powder and roasting to red hot holding heat an hour or more will break down, the iron sulfide will drive off SO2 sulfur dioxide gas, caution some ore has arsenic and other deadly fumes. 

Leaching ore with iron sulfide I really do not believe would interfere with the stannous test for gold.

A big problem with leaching gold from ore when using non selective leach is the ore can contain metals, that use up the leach, and cement or precipitate the values from the leach solution, so concentrating values is important, by some means, floatation, panning or other gravity mechanical means, and pre-leaching of base metals from values.

Ore can be very complex and its chemistry can work against the chemistry of the leach.

Before wasting time and acids, you should determine the value of the ore if any (assay, and knowing its chemistry or what it is composed of can also help in determining what methods may or may not work.

I only play with ore a little as a hobby, and really know very little about it, and I always want to learn more, but what I have learned is it can be very complicated to work with.


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