# Ru and/or Os contamination in Pt.



## HAuCl4 (Aug 19, 2011)

Lou: What process is best to clean up Ru and Os contamination in Platinum with the objective of highly pure final product?. Hydrolysis or distillation?. Or maybe something else entirely?. Cheers. :?:


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## Lou (Aug 19, 2011)

HAuCl4 said:


> Lou: What process is best to clean up Ru and Os contamination in Platinum with the objective of highly pure final product?. Hydrolysis or distillation?. Or maybe something else entirely?. Cheers. :?:




Base and acid oxidizing milieu and distill into KOH soln.
Easy peasy sans the deadly poison part.

Why do you ask?


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 20, 2011)

The process for Ru looks too involved and I was wondering, since I'm not interested in refining the Ru, if there is a simple way to get the Pt mostly/completely cleaned up quickly.
Pt hardened with Ir is much simpler to process.


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 20, 2011)

This is a pic of a sample of a lot, amongst other "scrap", I bought for... literally a song. 8) :mrgreen: 
The best I have found online about it is:
http://data.aerometals.co.uk/search.asp?metal_id_displayed_=&metal_id=&metal_id_displayed_=..+Platinum+Alloy&metal_id=216&metal_id_displayed_=&metal_id=&metal_id_displayed_=&metal_id=&matgroupid=216
They look like knitting needles, but they are mostly Platinum!. Anyone know what they are?. :shock: :idea:
I'm storing them for now. Maybe I can sell them at a premium. :idea:


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## Harold_V (Aug 21, 2011)

HAuCl4 said:


> They look like knitting needles, but they are mostly Platinum!. Anyone know what they are?. :shock: :idea:


Knitting needles?
I'm thinking tungsten, for TIG welding. 

Why do you think they're platinum?

Harold


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 21, 2011)

'cos I ain't dumb, and I scratch tested with SnCl2. :lol:


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## Lou (Aug 21, 2011)

Bend them. If they bend, they're likely pure Pt, or an alloy close to. If they don't bend but rather snap, they're tungsten.

Or just put them in ammonia and hydrogen peroxide (base pirahna), if they're tungsten/tantalum they will readily dissolve.


Or sell them to me


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## jimdoc (Aug 21, 2011)

I have seen a lot of platinum plated sewing and knitting needles on Ebay.
I doubt very much that they are solid platinum.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Platinum-Tapestry-Hand-Needles-Size-24-2-Pkg-/370530589043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5645581973

Jim


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## qst42know (Aug 21, 2011)

Aero company deals in tungsten alloys. I didn't see any precious metals but I didn't look very hard.

http://www.aerographite.com/detail-tungsten-products-14.aspx


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## Harold_V (Aug 22, 2011)

HAuCl4 said:


> 'cos I ain't dumb, and I scratch tested with SnCl2. :lol:


Note that I'm not buying it (your scratch test). I still say it's tungsten. 

Harold


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 22, 2011)

You must be quite a hit at parties, Harold. :lol:


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## Lou (Aug 22, 2011)

They're not grey enough to be W.

Heat them very hot with an oxidizing flame, that will tell the tale.


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 22, 2011)

It is what it is. 90-10 Pt-Ru. Not for sale I'm afraid. :shock:


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## Lou (Aug 22, 2011)

I understand. Surely you must be using them to learn the great art of refining platinum group metals?


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## Harold_V (Aug 23, 2011)

HAuCl4 said:


> You must be quite a hit at parties, Harold. :lol:


Lets just say I'm not the most popular guy in town. 
So then, they are platinum metals?
Any idea of their intended use? 
Lou commented on the color, but ground W is, indeed, quite white and shiny. Electrodes for TIG look very much like the samples you have shown. The one big difference, one I can not explain, is why they have a preformed cone. That's typical of TIG welding for some metals (not aluminum), but they generally are not preformed. 

Harold


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 23, 2011)

Lou said:


> I understand. Surely you must be using them to learn the great art of refining platinum group metals?


Indeed!. An art for sure. 8)
Will try good ol' smelting with lead after I alloy them with some gold to drop the melting point. :shock:


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 23, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> HAuCl4 said:
> 
> 
> > You must be quite a hit at parties, Harold. :lol:
> ...


No idea of their original intended use, and you are right about the conical shape at both ends. Maybe to repair large catalysts at chemical plants?.


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Lou said:


> HAuCl4 said:
> 
> 
> > Lou: What process is best to clean up Ru and Os contamination in Platinum with the objective of highly pure final product?. Hydrolysis or distillation?. Or maybe something else entirely?. Cheers. :?:
> ...


This distilling involves inyecting chlorine, right?. Can it be done without that?. Notice the objective is removing completely traces of Ru .2-.5%, which I would not mind losing to fumes or long term stock pot, or simply losing them in trade for simplicity and speed. :?: :|


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## Lou (Aug 26, 2011)

Ruthenium is quite insoluble in aqua regia.

Typically it's done from basic milieu a la hypochlorite. Osmium is distilled from nitric acid containing solutions.


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 27, 2011)

Lou said:


> Ruthenium is quite insoluble in aqua regia.
> 
> Typically it's done from basic milieu a la hypochlorite. Osmium is distilled from nitric acid containing solutions.


OK thanks a lot Lou. So, in broad strokes: dissolving blacks/sponge (mainly Pt) in aqua regia, filtering out the insolubles, dropping gold, filtering, then distilling out whatever traces of Ru, Os, that are left in the solution, then doing a bromate hydrolysis for the rest of the contaminants, would yield Platinum at the best it can be done chemically?. 
Further purification would be by physical means like zone refining/re-crystallization/other. Is this broadly correct?. :?: 8)

edit to add: Trying to stay away from TBP Sx extraction, but would it help with the purity an order of magnitude or more?. :?:


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## Lou (Aug 27, 2011)

There's no distilling the Os and Ru out of solution really. They don't go into solution in aqua regia.


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## Palladium (Aug 28, 2011)

I went to the aero web site and it appears they have all kinds of products. Could you post a link to the product data sheet that matches that product so i can look at it?


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 28, 2011)

Palladium said:


> I went to the aero web site and it appears they have all kinds of products. Could you post a link to the product data sheet that matches that product so i can look at it?


I couldn't find a link either.
Lou: I don't understand. Do they become tetroxides inmediately or what?. INCO and Matthey both have a "distillation" step early in their process, and they say they get the Ru out early because it affects the other processes if it is left in.


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## Lou (Aug 28, 2011)

Your INCO flow sheet is incomplete, as is your knowledge of Ru and Os chemistry.

I've attached a better but still incomplete flow sheet.


There are easily five different total PGM purification schemata out there.


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## HAuCl4 (Aug 28, 2011)

cheers Lou. Will study!. 8)


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