# Pints of nitric cheaper than Ebay



## bigjohn (Dec 18, 2012)

Just thought I'd share a source for nitric acid I found. The place is Elemental Scientific, LLC. They sell pints of 70% nitric for $9.99 and there is hazmat shipping but I ordered 5 pints and my total was $96.23 so that beats the $60.00 pints on ebay. This is by no means cheap but, they sell to individuals and ship to a home address.


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## butcher (Dec 18, 2012)

http://www.elementalscientific.net/

http://www.elementalscientific.net/store/scripts/prodList.asp?idcategory=18&curPage=43&sortField=sku


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## bigjohn (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks for the links butcher. I posted from my phone and it's a pain to copy the links.


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## butcher (Dec 19, 2012)

No problem Big John this may be helpful Thank you John.


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## mikeinkaty (Dec 19, 2012)

I ordered 4 of the 16oz bottles. I presume the haz mat fee is not charged 4 times! I told them to cancel the order if it was.

I thought about making and distilling my own but I can't find the Hi-Yield Nitrate of Soda anywhere around here.

Mike


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## Geo (Dec 19, 2012)

mikeinkaty said:


> I ordered 4 of the 16oz bottles. I presume the haz mat fee is not charged 4 times! I told them to cancel the order if it was.
> 
> I thought about making and distilling my own but I can't find the Hi-Yield Nitrate of Soda anywhere around here.
> 
> Mike



dont distill with such a low grade nitrate. use potassium nitrate or calcium ammonium nitrate.


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## bigjohn (Dec 20, 2012)

Mike, the hazmat fee is $27.50 no matter how many pints you buy. The fee is added after you checkout.


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## tek4g63 (Dec 20, 2012)

Bigjohn, Thank you very much for sharing this company with us. I know it took you a while and a lot of frustration to find a place like this. Their prices look fair to me.

Please let us all know when your order arrives. Because if they are easy to work with I will definitely be giving them my businesses! I finally have enough silver to set up my first silver cell, just don't have the nitric.


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## mikeinkaty (Dec 20, 2012)

They called this morning and said the haz mat fee was charged once for up to 8 pints. Anything over 8 pints requires another box and another haz mat fee is charged for the 2nd box. So, if you dilute the fee over 8 pints then that would come out to about $3.50 per pint.

Where can one go to find the spot price for Nitric? :lol: Might be more profit in that spread.


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## mikeinkaty (Dec 20, 2012)

Geo said:


> dont distill with such a low grade nitrate. use potassium nitrate or calcium ammonium nitrate.



Geo, somewhere on this forum I read that it took less Sodium Nitrte?? I don't know that I would have the nerve to buy a bag of ammonium nitrate.

Mike


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## Geo (Dec 20, 2012)

mikeinkaty said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > dont distill with such a low grade nitrate. use potassium nitrate or calcium ammonium nitrate.
> ...



depends on the process. im not even sure you can distill nitric acid from sodium nitrate. all of the "poor man's" recipes use sodium nitrate (like the one pot method) but relies on a different type of reaction.

btw, calcium ammonium nitrate is not regulated like ammonium nitrate. i bought a 50# bag without so much as an ID check.


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## butcher (Dec 20, 2012)

I would prefer sodium nitrate to the other nitrates when making nitric acid, and yes you can distill nitric acid made from sodium nitrate with no problems.
2NaNO3 + H2SO4 -->Na2SO4 + 2HNO3
Byproduct sodium sulfate

Potassium salts are a little less soluble than the sodium salts and tend to trap nitric in the potassium sulfate salts a little easier.
2KNO3 + H2SO4 --> K2SO4 + 2HNO3

Calcium sulfate formed from the reaction of calcium nitrate and sulfuric acid make a rock hard substance known as gypsum or Plaster of Paris, for this reason I do not like using it as much as I do the sodium or potassium nitrates. Calcium nitrate can trap lots of nitric in the gypsum formed usually to get out a good portion of the nitric acid from the salts they normally need to be cooked almost rock hard.
Ca(NO3)2 + H2SO4 --> Ca SO4 + 2HNO3

Ammonium nitrate is just dangerous in my opinion, you can make nitric acid with it and distill with it, but it can form an explosive compound if not done properly (even when wet while distilling) it makes good nitric acid and if it was not for the fact of the dangers involved. Also ammonia is volatile when distilling some could come over before the nitric (ammonia and silver refining also has its dangers).
For these reasons and other I do not recommend using ammonium salts to make nitric acid
2NH4NO3 + H2SO4 --> (NH4)2SO4 + 2HNO3

Ammonium nitrate can be made into potassium nitrate easily using potassium hydroxide this forms large volumes gas of ammonia when reacting.
The potassium nitrate can then be used to make nitric acid with.
NH4NO3 + KOH --> KNO3 + H2O + NH3 (gas)


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## Geo (Dec 20, 2012)

maybe im doing something wrong. perhaps im adding too much calcium nitrate and not enough sulfuric because the gypsum left from my distillation is soft and can be washed out with a swish of water. potassium nitrate on the other hand always set hard as stone and had to be dissolved in boiling water to get it out. ive been making 1 quart batches and noticed that after the concentrated acid comes off, the last 100ml's is very weak, almost water. i figured the sulfuric was depleted and the water was coming from the water crystals in the calcium nitrate. 

what ever the reason or causes, i get a very good workable nitric acid. now that i have mastered the moviemaker software, i will make a video of my rig in action and some of the product. the weather has put me behind so it may be after Christmas before i can get it done.


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## mikeinkaty (Dec 20, 2012)

Geo said:


> maybe im doing something wrong. perhaps im adding too much calcium nitrate and not enough sulfuric because the gypsum left from my distillation is soft and can be washed out with a swish of water. potassium nitrate on the other hand always set hard as stone and had to be dissolved in boiling water to get it out. ive been making 1 quart batches and noticed that after the concentrated acid comes off, the last 100ml's is very weak, almost water. i figured the sulfuric was depleted and the water was coming from the water crystals in the calcium nitrate.
> 
> what ever the reason or causes, i get a very good workable nitric acid. now that i have mastered the moviemaker software, i will make a video of my rig in action and some of the product. the weather has put me behind so it may be after Christmas before i can get it done.




Geo, do you distill yours? if so, what concentration do you get and what do you estimate your per liter cost is? I not distilling then how do you deal with the sulfates? Or maybe your not using it for silver??

Mike


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## Geo (Dec 20, 2012)

i distill my nitric to as close to 67% as i can by checking the concentration first with its reaction to copper. as the first acid comes from the condenser, it reacts strongly to copper.this lets me know that its dilute and the more concentrated it gets the slower the reaction happens. i catch the first 100ml's or so in one container and as the concentration goes up, i switch containers. lately the last 100ml's or so seems to be diluted so i switch the containers back. after the batch is run, i evaporate as much water out as i can until the acid starts to decompose. as long as you use glassware that has never had chlorides in it, you can use this nitric acid for any process including refining silver. this acid is as good as the acid you buy from chemical stores. 

sulfuric cost $26 per 5 gallons as auto battery electrolyte at the parts store. after evaporating, i get about 6 quarts of concentrated sulfuric acid from the five gallons. a 50# bag of calcium nitrate at the feed store was $25. i use double the weight of calcium nitrate to sulfuric thats 2 parts nitrate to 1 part sulfuric by weight. thats $4.33 per quart of sulfuric not counting electricity. a quart of sulfuric weighs about 3.5 pounds so thats 7 pounds of nitrate at $3.50, total of $7.83 per quart plus electricity, about $8 per quart. no shipping, no headaches (unless you breath the fumes). i do my distilling out away from everything.i have one neighbor thats upwind from my land, my next neighbor downwind is about a football field length from me maybe a little more. if the condenser works properly and you dont run the heat too high, there shouldnt be much fumes left over from the production of acid.


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## mikeinkaty (Dec 23, 2012)

Can the specific gravity of acid be tested with a hydrometer?


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## MGH (Dec 23, 2012)

Sorry this probably isn't much help to anyone else, but just thought I'd mention (gloat) I can buy lab grade nitric acid, 65% - 70% from a local chemical supply house. Not sure if they sell to the general public, but they did let me set up my own personal account since they are also the regualar supplier to our lab at work. I can get 2.5 liter bottles for $15.30 - and no shipping or hazmat charges. I just go pick it up after work. They're 3 minutes from the office. 

I might need to process more silver.


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## butcher (Dec 23, 2012)

Can the specific gravity of acid be tested with a hydrometer?

Yes But,
hydrometers can be made with many different scales, and can be calibrated for many different uses, so not just any hydrometer would work.

you can check the specific gravity with a thermometer, volumetric flask, and a scale, and get a pretty close idea of the specific gravity of the liquid.

let everything get to the same temperature usually 20 deg C, measure weight empty flask, fill flask to the measurement line, (no bubbles), weigh again, (divide difference in mass by the volume), the better the scale and measurement flask, and less variation in temperature the closer the density can be figured.


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## mikeinkaty (Dec 24, 2012)

Before I bought mine online I went to Graingers. They do not keep it on location. It has to be called in and shipped. And, they only ship Nitric Acid to a business and to a bon-a-fide business address. I have bought a lot of stuff from Graingers on a cash ticket before and just tell them that I'm retired from xxxx oil company. That part is not a lie - I did work 35 years for a major oil company just down the street from this Graingers store. My med cards have the company name on it!

Mike


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## bigjohn (Jan 9, 2013)

Just wanted to update. I received my nitric yesterday. Shipping was a little slow, but I did order around the holidays. 5 pints delivered was $96.48 Definitely a better deal than feebay.







Edited for spelling


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