# Refining 33 kilograms of ceramic CPU`s



## Todor (Apr 9, 2017)

Hi there, in the next couple of days we are going to refine 33 kilograms of ceramic CPU`s- gold plated only(i mean every one has the yellow plate), like 386, 486, Intel pentium, pentium pro, cyrix and so on. I have got some pictures from the preparing proces. Some other pictures and data, later on....


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## geedigity (Apr 9, 2017)

It would be interesting to see what each type approximately yields. That may not be possible, since it looks like they have been mixed up. 

Since it is a medley of CPUs, I would opine that the data you obtain would only be specific to your particular batch of material. In my experience, even processing CPUs of the same type has resulted in a range of what yield to expect. Reportedly, this variation in yield can be due to manufacturing location, year manufactured, recovery technique, etc. 

It still will be interesting to see what kind of yield you get, however.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 9, 2017)

Run the caps separate.

Otherwise you will be continuously cementing gold on them until they are dissolved. Its much easier to run them in dilute nitric until the foils shed off, then just run the pieces of the processors with the pins and braze directly in ar, making sure all metal is dissolved.
Then rinse them (ceramic pieces) with dilute hcl until there is no color change. 

After the caps shed the foil, you can process them in their own batch of ar, or hcl bleach.

Looks like fun!


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## geedigity (Apr 9, 2017)

Good catch on removing the caps or heat spreaders prior to processing. When I first processed some CPUs, I did not remove the caps and I found later that a good portion of the braze remained in between the cap and ceramic part. 

I now remove the caps with a oxygen/propane torch first. The brazing can be somewhat stubborn at times, but it is definitely worth removing them. I have found however, that if one does it correctly, the gold on the caps can be stripped with hot AR without dissolving the whole cap. It becomes a matter of timing and not letting the AR run to completion. I think Jon mentioned this technique sometime back. In order to get most of the gold from the caps, it will require subjecting them to multiple leaches using a fresh batch of AR or Sodium Nitrate and HCl.


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## Todor (Apr 10, 2017)

Here it is some other pictures of the process refining those CPU`s, we just added 5 more kilograms different gold plated chips. Please, don`t ask me what is the exact process, because a refiner doing it for us. That is happened on our place far from populated area and every acid that is left will be properly disposed.


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## snoman701 (Apr 10, 2017)

This forum needs the popcorn emoji!

Please photograph the drop!


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## anachronism (Apr 10, 2017)

Arrghhh I'm cringeing.


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## snoman701 (Apr 10, 2017)

anachronism said:


> Arrghhh I'm cringeing.



Again....popcorn emoji would be perfect!


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## g_axelsson (Apr 10, 2017)

anachronism said:


> Arrghhh I'm cringeing.


Me too, for several reasons...

Those Pakistani refiners... but what can you expect from a third world country like that... :mrgreen: 

Göran


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## kernels (Apr 10, 2017)

I love the temperature control system . . . stoke the fire! temperature is getting low :lol:


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## kernels (Apr 10, 2017)

Also, in the pics it looks like most of the ceramic DIP ICs are not broken up ???


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## kernels (Apr 10, 2017)

And I see a lot of copper lids. Luckily they have a BIG bottle of Nitric


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## Todor (Apr 10, 2017)

> I love the temperature control system . . . stoke the fire! temperature is getting low :lol:


WRONG!



> Also, in the pics it looks like most of the ceramic DIP ICs are not broken up ???



WRONG!
Do you know that these chips let more than 12 grams au per kg(these are not the ceramic CPUs)



> And I see a lot of copper lids. Luckily they have a BIG bottle of Nitric


WRONG!
Man, you have got 234 posts, and i see that you don`t understand nothing about AU refining!


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 10, 2017)

Everybody step back and take a breath please. 

Let's keep the discussion constructive and on topic.

Dave


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## richard2013 (Apr 10, 2017)

Todor,, calm down work with fun,, it's just on a fun day critic

There's nothing to be strong and posting in all caps, not unless you are high in Gold Fever.


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## kernels (Apr 10, 2017)

:lol: What is WRONG ? The three pictures above show . . . a fire . . . lots of ICs that are not broken up enough . . . some gold plated lids that have not been removed ? 

Seriously, I was just having some fun based on the pictures, no intention to cause personal offence!


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## Topher_osAUrus (Apr 10, 2017)

Personally, I think thats a beautiful pile of ceramics.
Can't wait to see the end result!


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## mls26cwru (Apr 10, 2017)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Everybody step back and take a breath please.
> 
> Let's keep the discussion constructive and on topic.
> 
> Dave




I couldn't agree with this more... lets not try to run this guy off my insulting him and personally attacking him and try to get him to see the error of his ways so that some poor soul isn't downwind of that kind of cloud of NOx again. I would rather see a constructive promotion of responsible and safe refining than to run off another refiner through character attacks and relegating them to the realm of hand-me-down knowledge and youtube refining practices.

PLEASE, Todor... you MUST work on and practice much better safety procedures and habits because what you are showing in your pictures are going to get someone hurt or killed... it is not a matter of if, but when.


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## Todor (Apr 11, 2017)

No offence taken, but the the refiner is doing this for 25 years. Also as i said - this process is done in the remote area, and the leftover acid will be given to special company for disposal to wich i have to pay charge. So please, don`t think we are some brainless people blinded with the gold fever. 
I put the topic in "data" because i wanted to share my result, as i shared my results and experience with Umicore and the mobile phones.
This is not an easy job and it took me years to get to here and find the right people for the job.


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## anachronism (Apr 11, 2017)

Todor

I'm not getting personal mate. I'm genuinely expressing my concern. No more, no less. I also think I know you  

Jon


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## kernels (Apr 11, 2017)

Ok, so in a non attacking way, I would love to know what is going on there. 

From the brown cloud you have to assume they have gone straight for AR ? Maybe Nitric ? Wouldn't PMs cement out on the stainless pot ?


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## nickvc (Apr 11, 2017)

I think it must be a nitric process as stainless will atart dissolving in AR or any other solution with hydrochloric in.


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## anachronism (Apr 11, 2017)

As Nick said...

Mind you if these guys have been doing this for 25 years maybe the pot is Titanium.


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## Todor (Apr 11, 2017)

As far as i know this is deluted nitric acid, then we removed the caps. after that the ceramics with the gold flakes will be poured in AR.
I forgot the "water" from the boiling stainless pod contains silver, the refiner said. On these 40 kilos of CPUs, there will be good 200-300 grams of silver.


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## anachronism (Apr 11, 2017)

How much gold is the refiner estimating you'll get?


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## mls26cwru (Apr 11, 2017)

This kind of refining should be done in a lab... period, end of story.

This 'refiner' has been doing this for 25 years? you mean they have been polluting the atmosphere with toxic gas for that long? They have been putting other people's lives and health at risk for over two decades? They have been unconcerned with the ramifications of what they have been doing for years? Just because it is 'far away from people,' does that make it right to willfully pump highly toxic materials into the air/water/environment?

I'm sorry Todor, but the person that did this refining for you is a hillbilly/bush refiner that (assuming you took the pictures) put you at some terrible risk. If this were in the States, I would have kicked this guy off my property and reported him to the authorities/EPA, and if its a business I would contact OSHA. I am not trying to be an ass... that's just how bad this guy's refining practices are. The photo evidence is THAT damning.

I am glad you said something about the left over acid being treated... BUT... is that you who is sending it out for treatment, or is that what he 'says' he is doing with it? I would be very scepitcal of anyone who just did an aqua regia digestion in the mater of which you photographed actually caring enough to send their waste acid to be processed.

If this guy is your employee, then please look into improving your safety, material handling, and fume control... If you hired this guy to do a job, fire him and don't ever use him again. Find someone who is a more responsible (both ethically and environmentally) refiner.

I do not want you to take this as a personal attack, nor should you take this with any offence... I have wrote what I wrote out of concern. When I see an accident, I try to help and make sure people are okay. That is all I am trying to do here.


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## Todor (Apr 11, 2017)

Please, don`t tell me that all the small refiners, hundred of members of this forum that refine like us have laboratories and fume control. In the 2010 BP polluted all the Mexican gulf- what happened to them? I think we have to close this forum and the Hoke`s book has to be forbidden.

Once again this process at the pictures is done at my property, far from populated area, and the leftover acid will be sent to special company.


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## anachronism (Apr 11, 2017)

You'd be right Todor- there are lot of people on this board who don't refine with fume hoods and labs, but there are also a lot who do.

Again nobody is getting antsy with you, they are getting genuinely concerned for you so please take that as it's meant. The right way.


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## 4metals (Apr 11, 2017)

Although this will not lower the total NOx emitted by this process, it would be much safer to add the pieces at a controlled rate to the heated tank full of acid, as the reaction slows, more pieces are added. The reaction shown is the equivalent of a run away reaction, if it had to be stopped for any reason, it is difficult to stop. When you control the addition rate, it is easier to control. 

Even when using a professional refiner who is using a fume scrubber, the parts are fed in at a controlled rate so as not to overload the capacity of the scrubber. Another way to control the reaction rate is to add all of the parts, all of the water, and controlled addition of the nitric. 

But for a remote back yard operation I can understand the concern expressed here.


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## mls26cwru (Apr 11, 2017)

So just because someone else released toxic waste into the environment, its okay for you to do it? Just because its far away from people, its okay to release a toxic corrosive gas into the air? Would you be okay if I released a cylinder of chlorine gas up wind of you? Come on... that is a terrible stance to take, both ethically and professionally. As a refining community, we all have to take a higher moral standard considering the materials we work with.

I realize that that the amount of pollution that batch put into the air is nothing compared to what industry does, but that is not at the heart of what I am trying to tell you. What I am trying to tell you is your refiner (not you) has terrible practices and it will end up costing you in the long run. Let me just point out a couple examples.

First - That pot of acid is over open ground. If something happens (like the pot falls over, or gets dropped, boils over, runaway reaction etc...) there is nothing to catch the acid. Environmental concerns aside, you would lose THOUSANDS of dollars in gold from a simple mistake. I think just about everyone here can testify to the benefits of using a catch-pan form personal experience. 

Second - That cloud of NOx... that's a pretty dense cloud of gas. If the wind changes or someone is not paying attention, just a sniff or two of that will probably send someone to the hospital. And there are simple ways of mitigating that like 4metals mentioned.

Third - I see no safety gear at all. The picture of the guys pouring 'liquid' could just be the addition of water and I am hoping they were using gloves and eye protection for the dangerous stuff.

These are all big red warning flags. Especially if someone is calling themselves a 'professional', because this kind of behavior is anything but. 

One last thing that I should clarify what I meant... in my last post I said this should be done in a lab... I should have said in a controlled environment. Something as simple as a good work platform and basic safety gear. There are a couple guys here that built simple sheds in their back yards so they could have a dedicated space for refining. When you do that, you can control more aspects of your refining environment and make things safer, easier, and cleaner... all of which lead to better yields and more money. Not all of us have a dedicated lab, but those that take what they do seriously, do. Be weary of a 'professional' refiner who doesn't work in a controlled environment. Chances are they are not getting you the best yields on your material.


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## Rougemillenial (Apr 11, 2017)

I'd have to agree with the critics on this one. I really doubt that these guys are trustworthy. If they're using a wood fire as a heating source, what makes you think they have access to proper waste disposal methods? not trying to guilt trip you here but these people are most likely going to take the 'waste' that still has PMs that they're to lazy to cement out with copper and dump it into some soon to be superfund site where the ground can't even be stood on without burning the flesh off the bones of those unlucky enough to be there. 

I by no means find you responsible as these guys clearly promised a higher level of service than they're capable of providing. That cloud of gas is atrocious. No temperature control, no catch pan, no waste disposal, shady operation, careless workers. Seems like they want more than a fair cut of gold from you. I'm concerned that they'll give you a small fraction of the gold they recover, telling you that that's the yield they got. I seriously think they might even try to con you. 

I hope you can report them to the proper authorities as at least in North America, you can sue them and press charges for fraudulent credentials and multiple environmental protection violations. The lawsuit can provide the money you lost from the incompetent practice of these people. these people are why amateur chemistry has a terrible name. I feel really bad for you man. Hate to see people fall into these traps.


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## 4metals (Apr 11, 2017)

The so called refiner operates his business as a refiner to go? I hope that Todor is treated well by these guys and I hope he can understand our concerns. If anyone were to get a whiff of that cloud of NOx and call the authorities, they would come looking for the property owner and the responsibility would fall 100% on the property owner. I seriously doubt the terms and conditions were in writing and I also doubt the refiner is operating legally as a corporation. 

I would like to hear about the yield from Todor to see if some of the suspicions expressed are accurate. I do not think this thread should be viewed as critical towards Todor, rather it is my hope that it is a learning experience of things that shouldn't be done in one's backyard.


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## Todor (Apr 13, 2017)

Ok, i will leave the polemics behind. Will took notice, maybe will spend money for proper lab. At the end we have got the results - 32.25 Kg of ceramic CPUs + 5 more Kg of different gold plated chips(not as good as ceramics CPUs). Here is what we have got: + 300 grams of Ag


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## glorycloud (Apr 13, 2017)

215 grams of Au and 300+g of Ag, correct?


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## Todor (Apr 13, 2017)

glorycloud said:


> 215 grams of Au and 300+g of Ag, correct?


Yes, that is correct. The Ag is still chloride if im not mistaken, and it could be possible to find another few grams of gold+ there is another fluid that could contain up to 10-15 grams of gold.


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## anachronism (Apr 13, 2017)

That's a pretty reasonable yield for that kind of material. Thanks for sharing.


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## butcher (Apr 13, 2017)

Todor, Thanks for showing the results of your hard work, that hunk in the picture brightened my day.


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## Rougemillenial (Apr 14, 2017)

So at current prices that's over $11,000 USD in gold. Congratulations on your successful result  . That hunk of gold in the picture makes my day. Personally I wouldn't refine these things myself either as I really don't like working with aqua regia due to the lack of good equipment. I respect the choice of finding someone to refine it for you. Knowing when to ask for help is a sign of true intelligence. It's better for someone else more comfortable to refine your stuff and split the profits than potentially hurting yourself by doing something that you aren't really experienced enough to do.


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## Tndavid (Apr 21, 2017)

That's a nice hunk of gold for sure!!!!


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## Patry0t (May 6, 2017)

I'm a CPU collector, it actually hurts me to see so many of these vintage CPUs go to destruction. Can you please save me 5-10-15 peaces, maybe one of each type next time?


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## g_axelsson (May 7, 2017)

Patry0t said:


> I'm a CPU collector, it actually hurts me to see so many of these vintage CPUs go to destruction. Can you please save me 5-10-15 peaces, maybe one of each type next time?


Take a look here to see if I have something you are interested in.
http://www.home.neab.net/gandalf/CeramicCPU-2015/sales.htm

Göran


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## Patry0t (May 8, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> Take a look here to see if I have something you are interested in.
> http://www.home.neab.net/gandalf/CeramicCPU-2015/sales.htm



I'm interestein in those that are for 0$, and maybe some more cheap ones!


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## shmandi (May 8, 2017)

Patry0t said:


> I'm interestein in those that are for 0$, and maybe some more cheap ones!



I don't think that you can get CPU for 0$ from somebody that knows that there is 0.1g gold inside.


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## g_axelsson (May 8, 2017)

Yeah, anything for $0 just means that I haven't priced it yet.

Göran


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## Patry0t (May 8, 2017)

g_axelsson said:


> Yeah, anything for $0 just means that I haven't priced it yet.
> 
> Göran



Ahh sorry to hear that. I don't care about the gold. I know this sounds strange on a gold refining forum, but I collect the CPUs, not process them 
I would be more than happy for any donation I can get


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## g_axelsson (May 8, 2017)

Patry0t said:


> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, anything for $0 just means that I haven't priced it yet.
> ...


No worries, I could donate a couple of CPU:s if you donate some gold scrap to me. But it must be worth my time or I could just refine the CPU:s straight away.
I do care about the CPU:s as I'm collecting vintage computers, but I'm also collecting gold. :mrgreen: 

What the CPU collector and vintage gaming crowds doesn't want, I just refine to get the gold.

Göran


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## archeonist (May 21, 2017)

Thank you Todor for the effort in posting your results.


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## johnny309 (May 21, 2017)

archeonist said:


> Thank you Todor for the effort in posting your results.


Yes indeed....thank you....because you do what other users only "chat" about it(how many grams is in it,I have this,I have that ...will I get rich....). 
You just do it.
Or may I say ...the team do it.... because in posts you use often "we".
Congratulations.


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