# Gold Floating In Solution



## Gold-Digger (Apr 22, 2007)

From an acid solution I'm using.. I have filtered a couple small batches and now have gold floating in solution along with a mess of other metallics. Most of these other parts are very fine dust that has settled on the bottom but this bottom mix also contains pieces of gold.

Does anyone have a good suggestion on the best way to separate out this mixed solution? 

Please see the attached JPEG photo which shows the gold floating around. I used a high quality blue paper towel I got at home depot for filtering and it seems to do a decent job. 

Any help would be appreciated.. This gold floating in solution should be high quality so I also wonder if I can use Borax by itself instead of a mix containing lead, sand (silica), etc.


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## Harold_V (Apr 22, 2007)

Gold floats because of the presence of oils. The smallest amount can float the gold----which was used to advantage in floatation mills.

Let me give you something to ponder, and it may affect the way you look at the work you're trying to accomplish. 

The ultimate goal is recovering gold. The best possible position you can occupy is owning gold of high purity----no lower than the industry standard of 9995. 

Oils can be totally eliminated by incineration. Get rid of the oil----get rid of the problem. 

If you approached your process from the perspective of a refiner instead of a reclaimer, you'd incinerate everything, do an HCL wash, then move to AR----that way you don't have any of these problems to plague you. 

You'd be pleasantly surprised to find that once you've done the HCL wash, everything of value will settle out in short order, and you can decant your beaker, discharging unwanted materials held in solution. The gold that comes from this process would be of higher quality. 

Harold


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## rainmaker (Apr 22, 2007)

It doesn't look to me like your filter worked too well!! Try using coffee filters, increasing the number of filters used each time untill you get the desired result. As to the really fine pieces that continue to pass the filter, try just putting the whole batch into a Peroxide/HCL acid solution. The acid will attack most of the base metals if not all of them and leave you with just the AU in the bottom of your container. See the "Tutorials Questions/Comments ~What Acid Bath Are You Using On CPUs".Or you could just dump it all into the acid bath and wait untill only AU is left, then filter.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 22, 2007)

If desired, you can try to pick up the floaters on a paper towel. Fold the towel twice and drag it across the surface. Lightly skim the surface.

Sometimes, a single drop of dishwashing soap on the surface will break the surface tension and allow the particles to settle.


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## Gold-Digger (Apr 22, 2007)

The filter worked o.k. The solution you are seeing is (H2O) water where I dropped in the paper towel I used for filtering. So everything you see in this solution came from the filter. The original solution was put into another container. Sorry for the confusion.

I dropped everything into just plain ole' tap water to dilute the acids on the paper towel. Now before anyone gives me a lecture on tap water just realize I'm using distilled water in my solutions. I wanted to knock down the PH so threw this filtered material into water. I will then re-filter off the water then either dry the filter or start another process. 

Now I just need to get rid of the leftover metals (mostly it looks like an off white powder). I'm guessing a lot of these are silver, salts and solder but who knows? This is where I really need some experienced help...


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 22, 2007)

The only time you need distilled water is when you're dissolving silver in nitric acid. Tap water contains chlorine and this will precipitate silver chloride from the nitric solution. For all other solutions I can think of, tap water is fine. This includes aqua regia and any other solution containing hydrochloric (muriatic) acid. Don't waste your money.


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## lazersteve (Apr 22, 2007)

The off-white powder is usually copper (I) chloride (cuprous chloride)which has not been exposed to air. It will turn light green once exposed to air. To remove it you should rinse with dilute HCl. It will usually take a few good rinses to remove it all. This percipitate comes form letting the solution get too saturated with copper. You should study the Copper Chloride document on my website.

If you have other chlorides in the solution they will be purged by the dilute HCl as well with the exception of silver chloride. Silver chloride will require several rinses of straight HCl. Always finish up your rinse process with plenty of water. Rinse until the water you pour off is completely clear. Placing a small drop of the filtered water on a clean coffee filter and letting it dry will show any color easily.

Steve


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## Gold-Digger (Apr 22, 2007)

Once you've finished using the acid as in my case. What is the preferred treatment in order to flush down the drain.

Is everyone using Baking Soda to normalize Ph plus drop out most of the junk before flushing? Or do you use Lye to get the Ph close to 7 ? Or what would you suggest so I can dump this water via my regular drain.


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## lazersteve (Apr 22, 2007)

The main idea is to remove the base metals first and foremost. From that point neutralization can be accomplished usng either lye or baking soda either is fine. Dumping down the drain may not be the best place to dispose of the liquid. If you have a septic tank I would say definitely don't. 

I would take it to your local dump on amnesty day. This is a day the dump lets you bright all your hazardous stuff in without penalty. Most landfills have several amnesty days each year some even once a month.

Does anyone else have any good suggestions on this important topic? 

Steve


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## Anonymous (Apr 22, 2007)

Harold_V said:


> Gold floats because of the presence of oils. The smallest amount can float the gold----which was used to advantage in floatation mills.
> 
> Harold



Hogwash. Oil is only one reason why gold can float. Another fine example of Harold my way or no way gibberish. 

To jump to the assumption the presence of oil is the onlypossible reason, or even the first thought or primary reason electronic gold foil floats in the experimenter's solution is major error thinking. 

Only scientific testing can reveal why gold foil properly pre-treated with a proper solvent to eliminate any oily residue might still float. 

Of course, a little research into the properties of surface tension of any given liquid, in this case H2O molecules from the tap might be another place to seek for causality explanations for floating gold foil so pictured.

Harold can be forgiven I suppose since he sold his one trick pony refinery, known as the bench jewelers' refinery, a long 12 years ago. Elsewhere on this forum, Harold has admitted boxing up all his reference books, except for the Hoke booke he flogs the forum with, all the while sitting upon thousands of ounces of silver, since 1994. 

As a point of reference, the price of silver was approximately $4.60 London Fix for the low during 1994, and in the $5.70s for the 1994 high.

Looked at the price of Silver recently, Harold? Going to fire up your vented directly to the outside fume hood plus your whiz bang furnace and turn all that trashy thousands of silver ounces into $14.00 silver ingots, carefully stamped with their purity and stamped with your special tooling stamps? Might have to stop 24/7 posting on this forum to refine all that awful silver. What a pity. 

a man named Sue


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## Noxx (Apr 22, 2007)

Sue,
your posts are going nowhere. You are always after Harold and this is no good for our community.

We are in the oblication to ban you, you broke Forum rules many times, even after warnings.

This forum exists for gold refiners helping one another. Not to be after others.


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## Fever (Apr 22, 2007)

Sue said:


> Harold_V said:
> 
> 
> > Gold floats because of the presence of oils. The smallest amount can float the gold----which was used to advantage in floatation mills.
> ...



Is this kind of grade school bullshit really necessary in this otherwise outstanding forum? :roll: 

Fever


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## Noxx (Apr 22, 2007)

I totaly agree.


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 22, 2007)

I agree also


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## Harold_V (Apr 22, 2007)

goldsilverpro said:


> The only time you need distilled water is when you're dissolving silver in nitric acid. Tap water contains chlorine and this will precipitate silver chloride from the nitric solution. For all other solutions I can think of, tap water is fine. This includes aqua regia and any other solution containing hydrochloric (muriatic) acid. Don't waste your money.



Yep! I refined from late 73' until I sold the small business in '94----and used tap water exclusively aside from handling silver in certain stages, and making test solutions. The contaminants in tap water have no effect on gold-------although I'm sure there could be some that could. Distilled water is, for the most part, simply not needed. 

I even used tap water when dissolving inquarted gold. There's no harm--even with chlorinated water---the trace of chlorine precipitates a minor amount of silver, which is recovered at a later date. 

Harold


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## toadiesop (Apr 22, 2007)

I agree as well. It has been said many times that Sue has much experience but never says anything of value.

I don't know him, and I'm definitely new to refining, reclaiming, ect, but I'll put this message out to Sue himself...

Look, we're all here for the same reason and us newbies look forward to every post that the veterans type. I consider you a veteran in the refining field, but you seem off kilter and combative.

Add to that, most of the time you are proven wrong. Please reconsider staying here and share some of your experiences.

Thanks, 

a newbie.


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## mike.fortin (Apr 23, 2007)

Sue-You suggested a solvent pre-treatment to use on computer gold to help it not float. Would you name some solvents? Are they reactive in acid? Would Dawn dishwashing liquid work on this floating gold? That is what oldtimers tell me to use in my goldpan on flour gold to help break surface tension. Thanks. Mike


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## rainmaker (Apr 23, 2007)

At one time in my life, I did caneing and to cause the cane to be more pliable faster, I used glycerin to break the surface tension, no soap bubbles. You can get it at any pharmacy. It only takes a drop or two per gallon of water to do the job. Something to try, not sure if it will work well for this application or not.

Gary


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## Noxx (Apr 23, 2007)

Mike, Sue has been banned.
But you should try with Dawn. It should works.


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## austexjwlry (Jun 27, 2007)

Mike.fortin

I believe the solvent Sue suggests is probably a caustic- like lye. as referenced in Hoke instead of burning, as a pretreatment to remove oil.

Wayne


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## mike.fortin (Jun 28, 2007)

Wayne--thanks. Somehow burning doesn't seem to fit what Sue was saying. Lye might be it. Are there other causticks beside lye? Sounds like I need to get one of them Hoke books you all talk about. Mike.


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## aflacglobal (Jun 28, 2007)

Mike,

I posted some books for refining on one of my treads. They should help
greatly. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=559


Ralph


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## P_CARROLL (Jun 29, 2007)

rainmaker said:


> At one time in my life, I did caneing and to cause the cane to be more pliable faster, I used glycerin to break the surface tension, no soap bubbles. You can get it at any pharmacy. It only takes a drop or two per gallon of water to do the job. Something to try, not sure if it will work well for this application or not.
> 
> Gary



Maybe thats why glycerine is used in the cell. For surace tension reduction so the gold goes to the bottom.


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## Gene Gindling (Apr 12, 2008)

From my understanding those blue shop towels contain silicone. Anyone trying to paint something who accidently wipes it down with one of these is in for nothing but a bunch of fish eyes.
Just a thought.


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## Rag and Bone (Apr 12, 2008)

I had a nasty mess of cpu pieces, foils and pins from several test batches. I took the whole works and did 3 rinses of HCl. Then I soaked it in a cold barn in HCl-Clorox for 3 weeks, adding more clorox periodically. Filtered the auric chloride, now the nasty mess is a pretty jar of auric chloride! 

ON the floating gold note, I had the same problem when I first started out last year. Since I started cleaning my equipment better and pre-washing my scrap the floating gold problem is gone.


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## eagle2 (Apr 14, 2008)

I just use a surfactant and a stirring rod. The pieces will then settle much quicker.

My surfactant is Triton x-100. There are many types, including Dawn and Glycerine.  

Al


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## steveonmars (Apr 14, 2008)

aflacglobal said:


> Mike,
> 
> I posted some books for refining on one of my treads. They should help
> greatly. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=559 Link repaired
> ...




This link didn't work, can you put up another link. I haven't been able to find Hoke's book yet but I'm reading as much as I can on this subject.

Thanks,

Steve


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## Rag and Bone (Apr 14, 2008)

steveonmars

Harold has a link to perchase the Hoke book attached to his posts, on the bottom.


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## Palladium (Apr 14, 2008)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=559


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## steveonmars (Apr 14, 2008)

Rag and Bone said:


> steveonmars
> 
> Harold has a link to perchase the Hoke book attached to his posts, on the bottom.



Thanks Rag, I found it.

Steve


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## Anonymous (Apr 15, 2008)

The gold floats because of the surface tension of the water,not because of any specific type of water or any oil.The easiest way to solve this promlem is to break the tension on the surface of the water.Any gold prospector worth his weight can tell you a tiny amount of dish soap and water sprayed onto the surface of the gold bearing water will break the surface tension,forcing the "floating gold" to fall.Of course now you have introduced the chemicals from the dishsoap into your gold solution.This shouldnt be a problem as long as you rinse well.
Johnny


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## Rag and Bone (Apr 15, 2008)

Oil most definitely will cause gold to float. Just a little bit from your hands is all it takes to have foils and powder floating on the surface, very annoying. It's easy to prevent by cleaning the scrap and equipment beforehand. I'm talking about electronic scrap which is my only point of reference.


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## Scott2357 (Apr 15, 2008)

Several aquatic critters like pond skates rely on water surface tension to do their thing. You ever notice a skate will stand high and moves easily in clean water but hardly ventures far from shore if the water is muddy or contaminated in some other natural way. Surface tension is weaker and some of the little hairs that support them fall beneath the surface. A drop of soap spread across the water is deadly since they can never get above the water line and drown.


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## Harold_V (Apr 15, 2008)

mariannalice said:


> The gold floats because of the surface tension of the water,not because of any specific type of water or any oil.


While gold of thin cross section will float on clean water, it's not true that oil isn't a problem, as you've already been well informed by others. 

The floatation process that concentrates values relies on oil to function. 

If you want to minimize gold floating, cleanliness is critical, not only with your vessels that contact the product, but with the product itself. Those of us that have refined on a commercial basis know and understand the value of incineration. 

Harold


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## eagle2 (Apr 15, 2008)

Most electronic scrap is contaminated with grease or greasy dirt. Just put there by the factory or picked up from usage.

A short dip in warm Sodium Hydroxide will make a big difference in getting rid of the grease and also prepare the surface, so that the next step will work much better.

Al


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