# Mini Scrubber



## sandhog (Apr 21, 2007)

Here's what I'm going to be working on this weekend. I shrank the design down from a design that was for 10,000 cu/ft. I'm going to stuff it all inside a 5 gal. bucket. 

Any comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.





I may add a 2-5gal. sump between the scrubber and the pump. Maybe it will act as a settling tank to recover valuables. 


-Bill


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## sandhog (Apr 21, 2007)

sorry about the typo on the topic.

-Bill


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 21, 2007)

Sandhog,

You've got all the essentials but, I think it's way to small. I think the fumes will go right through it. A 5 gal. bucket is only 2/3 of a cubic foot and a cubic foot of fumes isn't much. I'm under the impression that the fumes have to be in the scrubber for 9 seconds in order for it to be effective. That's why the scrubbers are huge. I may be way off on the 9 seconds. It may be a lot more. One place I worked had a scrubber about 8' in dia X 25' tall. It had a 2600 cfm blower on it that was adjustable. When we ran it more than 1500 cfm, we could see the brown fumes coming out the top.

One guy I knew was burning Xray film. He got pretty good scrubbing by venting the exhaust through a series of 4 or 5 drums containing water. I don't know how that would work with acid fumes. I'm sure the water wouldn't work alone. There would have to be some sodium hydroxide dissolved in it. Another guy had a series of 3 smaller scrubbers tied together, each built on the order of your drawing. By small, I mean 10' tall. Each had a different solution in it. These were hydrogen peroxide, sodium hydroxide, and plain water. He claimed good success.


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## lazersteve (Apr 21, 2007)

Maybe you could do three buckets in series?

Steve


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## sandhog (Apr 21, 2007)

Chris,

I'm thinking pretty small. I was going to use a 200CFM fan. But maybe the bucket is still too small. Maybe I'll have to use a trash can instead. Oh man thats a lot of pvc rings I have to cut.


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## sandhog (Apr 21, 2007)

Steve,

I must have posted in between. :? 
That may work also. 

My intentions for this scrubber is to treat the exhaust fumes before venting them to the outside. I am not going to be venting this back indoors. I would not recommend doing this unless this system is proven to remove all contaminants be some sort of meter. I think I still have a 5 gas meter that I used when I was a miner but I don't know if that would work. If I remember correctly the gases it measured are O2, SO2, CO, CO2, N2O. But I'm not 100% sure.

-Bill


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 21, 2007)

You would need about a 1 cfm fan and maybe that would be too much. If you're producing brown nitric oxide fumes, you'll be able to see them coming out and probably won't need a meter.

To scrub fumes effectively, you can't think small. It's all scrubber volume vs blower size vs dwell time. *It's a math problem.*


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## sandhog (Apr 21, 2007)

Chris,

What did you use for packings in your scrubber. Do you think the PVC will work?

-Bill


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 21, 2007)

The packing has to be plastic pieces with a large surface area. The ring shapes, like you are using, are common. In Hong Kong, we used reject plastic flowers from a factory.


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## sandhog (Apr 21, 2007)

I only have reject live flowers. :lol:


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## lazersteve (Apr 21, 2007)

My backyard pond uses a biofilter that has these large surface area 'rings' with spokes to remove crud from the pond water and airate. Perhaps the company would sell you just these pieces. It's made by Tetra, called Tetra Pond. 

Here's the model I have:

http://www.tetra-fish.com/catalog/product.aspx?id=376

The items you are after are the bio-rings. Here's what they look like:






They are about 1.25" across and 2" tall.

Steve


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## sandhog (Apr 23, 2007)

Thanks for the 9 sec. treatment rule Chris. Kinda like the 5 sec. rule that I use when I drop a piece of food on the floor. :lol: 

My fume hood is going to be 3x3x3=27 Gal. = 4cu. ft.
Trash barrel = 30 gal. about 4 cu. ft.

So my thinking is a 4cfm fan would keep the fumes in there for 1 min.
So fur 9 sec. I could use approx. a 14 cfm fan.

-Bill


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## fafrd (May 21, 2007)

what sort of pump are u using to suck the fumes in with? how big would the pump need to be ?


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## Daniel (May 21, 2007)

I am able to get 30 plastic drums from the farmers in this area almost any time I need them. We have 2 solid growing seasons and they rotate winter wheat... the drums are used to hold glyphosate, "Round-Up". I don't know if there is a residual in the plastic that would react with acid and acid vapor but I am thinking it would work well. I use them for all kinds of stuff. There is generaly no "deposit" held on these as most farm centers don't want them back.

As an added bonus, when you clean them out it kills all teh weeds in your driveway! /woot woot!


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## aflacglobal (May 21, 2007)

Let me ask a few dumb questions here.
Remember I'm no rocket scientist.

I take it the fumes you are speaking of come from AR. I was having a discussion about this with i think it was GSP a while back. I don't understand the need for the fans. I mean i do, but i don't. Fumes have to go somewhere, but my point is why do you need a fan if the fumes you are releasing are neutralized. I guess it makes sense though, because even some of the fumes will still have toxins in them with a semi - professional scrubber system. ( no pun intended)

My question really is not about your set up though. It's more or less about the one on the 10,000 Afftech refiner. The rest of you will know this about me, I'm into this gold dust thing right now. And like i said i understand the principles of all this. I guess what I'm trying to say is if the system 
( scrubber ) on the afftech unit can perform the way it does. Then why can't it be make to work in another configuration.

Hell it seems simple.
Just some clear poly carb tubes with chemicals and a vacuum system to draw vapor Thur. No actual moving pumps . Just vacuum.

Somebody tear this subject apart for me. Point out the pros's and cons.
If it works for this why can't it be improvised to work here.

Thanks,

Ralph :?: :?: :?: 



Note the valves on the line to prevent feed back between the tubes


PRINCIPLE OF OPERATIONS
1. Alloy is loaded into the Glass Reactor ( alloy must be in soft grains format ).
2. Vacuum is generated inside the Glass Reactor by Fumes / Vacuum Pump : two ways valve
connects Pump to Scrubbers, loading valve ( EVL ) is closed (ON condition), silver filtration
valve (SF) is closed (OFF condition).
3. Acids are slowly loaded into the Glass Reactor thru pinch valves, the Glass reactor is
heated by I/R Ceramic heating plates.
4. Fumes generated by the reaction are collected thru glass spiral refrigerator ( water-cooled ) and
washed into the six sequential Scrubbers ( Scrubber 1 to Scrubber 6 ) for neutralization.
5. When needed during the refining process and at the end of the reaction, Glass Reactor is
strongly air-cooled by three Fans : at process end, water is loaded into the Glass Reactor thru
H2O valve.
Note : Adequate cooling and water quantity are needed to warrant final gold purity.
6. Glass Reactor is back to atmospheric pressure by opening EVL.
7. Vacuum is generated inside Gold Container by Pump : twoways valve connects now Pump to
Gold Container, silver filtration valve ( SF ) is open, filter valve ( EVF ) is closed.
8. Liquid is filtered from glass Reactor to Gold Container thru Silver Filter where AgCl powder is
fully captured. The liquid, cleaned from AgCl, is transferred into Gold Container and becomes
in contact with gold precipitant ( Gold Reagent ) previously loaded into Gold Container. The
gold precipitate under pure gold powder form inside the

Well that sucks. Still havent figured the picture thing out yet. lol

Just look at the manual and see.

Ralph

Scrubbers on Afftech http://www.afftech-refiners.com/English/The%20method_files/Afftech%2010000PC%20video%20rid.wmv


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## aflacglobal (May 22, 2007)

Any ideas???


yes, the fumes are self neutralized inside the scrubbers… we can explain how it works… I am very proud of this method which is very efficient and very easy to understand..conceptually it is based on a different approach than actual in place with other systems :

we have six scrubbers…3 of them are dedicated to neutralize the toxicity of the fumes ( only the toxicity not the acidity)

3 others are dedicated to neutralize the acidity… this seem a small step..it is not !!!! : when you want to neutralize together toxicity and acidity..you need a very complex chemical which never works 100%... this way it is possible…with a patent designed by myself…. 

Ralph


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## goldsilverpro (May 22, 2007)

Sounds like peroxide in the first 3 and sodium hydroxide in the last 3. Probably, any strong oxidizing agent would work in the first 3.

Am I close? 

I knew a guy in Houston, about 7 years ago, that had a 3 stage scrubber and this is what he used. The 3rd stage was water.

If your system is totally sealed, I can see how you wouldn't need a blower. The fumes can only exit through the scrubber. The cooling of the fumes probably prevents the fumes from exiting too fast.

Ralph, has your patent been issued yet? If so, perhaps you could provide us with the patent number.

BTW, on conventional scrubbers, the blower is located on the tail end. It "draws" the fumes through the whole system


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## aflacglobal (May 22, 2007)

I wish it were my patent, G.S.P.

This one belongs to the Doc over at Afftech.
Even though we are in cahootes. Their are some things he will not let go of.
Not yet anyway. :x 

Ralph


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## Destroyer (Jun 4, 2007)

I used to work for ExxonMobil and I was also in the Army so that means I know exactly nothing for sure and a little about everything. If you had a fifty or one hundered gallon plastic water tank(or Larger I have two fifty gallon tanks from Northern Equipment) like the type used by Mobil car washers that would work real well I would think that with crushed charcoal sandwiched between a demister might work real well.
Also a CF meter would serve you well http://www.thermalmassflow.com/variable-area-flow-meters.php
I did learn this you can't control what you don't measure. I would find someplace cheaper or used even. Also why vent the mist out? why not recycle it if it does not impede the process. If you are burning then metal 55 gallon drums would work if you are demisting Acid vapor the Plastic would be the only thing to use for the whole system.


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## aflacglobal (Jun 4, 2007)

Welcome Destroyer !!!!!    
Give us a little about yourself.


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## Destroyer (Jun 4, 2007)

aflacglobal said:


> Welcome Destroyer !!!!!
> Give us a little about yourself.


 Okay I will do it in the why am I here what did I do wrong and how am I going to fix it forum, I know how these threads can get hijacked . http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=532&p=4514#p4514


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## aflacglobal (Jun 4, 2007)

I know how these threads can get hijacked 


:?: :?: :?:


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## Destroyer (Jun 4, 2007)

aflacglobal said:


> I know how these threads can get hijacked
> 
> 
> :?: :?: :?:


 well in my Gaming clan the topic is X and we go off in a different direction hence Hi Jacked. Like this forum is Safety so no one would think to look for my intro here. So it becomes a post someone has to read over just to get to the topic at hand...see see I am doing that right now.... :twisted:


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## aflacglobal (Jun 4, 2007)

I knew i had this somewhere. To dam many C.D.'s to keep up with.  


Now here is some good information on fumes and techniques to handle them.

Ralph


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## aflacglobal (Jun 4, 2007)

huuummm.
Now i see,said the blind man. 

Thanks destroyer.


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