# Question for Hunters (ID Footprints)



## necromancer (Mar 27, 2016)

Hello All !!
i thought there was a better place to post these (hunters area)

here is my question:

i am looking for your experience on wildlife footprints, these photos were taken just after christmas 2015 in Brantford Ontario Canada. right outside of a friends house who has 3 children that are all under 14 years old

she has been worried for her childrens safety ever since seeing these, Any help would be very much appreciated !!

by the way, the hand in the photo is from a 5' 2" woman, so you can size up the prints










Thank You All !!


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## bmgold2 (Mar 27, 2016)

Looks big but might just be a small hand? Maybe dog or ... wolf ?


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## Shark (Mar 27, 2016)

Right off I would guess wolf. Being unsure, I looked up some old info I had and came with this. I believe it originally came from Wisconsin DNR.


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## necromancer (Mar 27, 2016)

its farm land, no neighbours. i was thinking wolf, but they are not known to be in the area.
but we never know. with the amount of forest they are cutting down & all the chickens on the next farm


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## necromancer (Mar 27, 2016)

thank you Shark, i will forward the photo

always the right answers on the forum !! Thanks bmgold2 & Shark !!


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## Shark (Mar 27, 2016)

The tracks appear a bit melted, making it hard to tell. One of the fast signs is the angle of the two center toe nails. Dogs toe nails tend to point straight forward or outwards from the foot pad, most wild canines tend to curve or point inwards toward each other. That isn't 100% but it is very rare to find one that is off. We aren't supposed to have mountain lions or bears here, but tracks for both have become so common the state cannot deny them anymore. I have seen mountain lion tracks in Iowa 10 years ago, a time when that state denied having any living in that state. Wild animals live where ever they can find a home and food.


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## necromancer (Mar 27, 2016)

agreed !!

the deforestation in southern ontario for new homes & industry is insane, farms are being bulldozed to build million dollar homes.
coyotes are everywhere digging through the garbage & eating loose pets in residential areas
builders do not leave park space anymore, they are too greedy !! which is sad


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 27, 2016)

Never spent any time in the great North, but I know my woods down here.

Definitely large canine, but the track pattern is interesting. Could be a pair of wolves, but the way the toes are spread it looks more like an individual moving slow trying to keep balance. Either stalking or sick.

Don't know, hard to tell without actually being there to read the tracks.


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## GotTheBug (Mar 27, 2016)

They look like big kitty prints to me.

Might be time to invest in a trail cam and know for sure.


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## acpeacemaker (Mar 27, 2016)

Looking at the bottom picture I'm pretty sure it's not cat. Looking at the person's foot print and the spread between the front and back it's too short. Also, some cats tend to draw their elbows out. I remember my first experience with a mountain lion. I had a flat tire up in the mountains where the nearest town was 30 miles and it was still dark on my way to work. I hiked the snowy terrain in search of a house with a landline. Soon after I had noticed tracks in from and back of me. The cat circled me and kept a stalking distance. I found a house right in time. 
I do live right next to a wolf sanctuary, I might stop by tomorrow and ask.


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## acpeacemaker (Mar 27, 2016)

Anyone see this last year? Pretty much in my backyard.


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## necromancer (Mar 27, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> Never spent any time in the great North, but I know my woods down here.
> 
> Definitely large canine, but the track pattern is interesting. Could be a pair of wolves, but the way the toes are spread it looks more like an individual moving slow trying to keep balance. Either stalking or sick.
> 
> Don't know, hard to tell without actually being there to read the tracks.




understood, coyotes are extremely mangy this year, maybe the wolves have it too ?


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## necromancer (Mar 27, 2016)

acpeacemaker said:


> Anyone see this last year? Pretty much in my backyard.



cats have retractable claws, & i hope you killed that for food or to protect your family, i am not a hunter so i dont really agree with hunting. i do realise life is different everywhere though.


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## acpeacemaker (Mar 27, 2016)

Sorry i should have clarified that better. But that wasn't me it was from the news. But the area it came from of what I'm calling my backyard is half of a mountainside. 
I have bear at my backdoor all the time. Never have a problem with them, but the mountain lions will snatch your dog up quick. 
I was raised and been around it probably different than most. My Dad was inducted into the Wildlife Hall of Fame last year.


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## necromancer (Mar 27, 2016)

acpeacemaker said:


> Sorry i should have clarified that better. But that wasn't me it was from the news. But the area it came from of what I'm calling my backyard is half of a mountainside.
> I have bear at my backdoor all the time. Never have a problem with them, but the mountain lions will snatch your dog up quick.
> I was raised and been around it probably different than most. My Dad was inducted into the Wildlife Hall of Fame last year.


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## butcher (Mar 28, 2016)

This bear broke into my truck this winter, breaking the front windshield, and the passenger side window my fault for leaving my lunch in the truck, normally he just makes a mess of our trash cans.


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## acpeacemaker (Mar 28, 2016)

Butcher that just reminded me of this girl I work with. She drives a little Honda civic and had a bear rip the entire drivers side door off for a little bag of Doritos. It's interesting the smallest things like that they will go after.


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## solar_plasma (Mar 28, 2016)

With this kind of wild life and long distances between spots of civilization I understand you guys do not want to give up your right on guns  really amazing!


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## necromancer (Mar 28, 2016)

mountain lions, bears & germans Oh My !! (just joking Solar_Plasma)

i guess we are much safer with wolves than bears and mountain lions, my friend lives in a single story old wood planked house
no match for a bear !

Vielen Dank für das tolle Essen und der Great Beer !!
hope google translated that well.


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## solar_plasma (Mar 28, 2016)

When it comes to food, beer and culture at all, I am more of a dane (in fact danish minority) :lol: ...german beer is not the worst though, I love Tsing Tao beer, which where constituted in the time Tsing Tao was german colony - I call it one of the last really german beers...it is mild and somewhat sweet compared to other beers I know. 8) 

Since a decade wolves come back to Germany, but they are so shy and seldom (about 100 at all), that even if anybody tries to spot them in there habitate he needs a lot of knowlegde, luck and time. The few encounters every couple of years are a headline in the media. Only a few shepherds have greater problems with them.


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## jason_recliner (Mar 28, 2016)

solar_plasma said:


> German beer is not the worst though


German sausage is the wurst :mrgreen:


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## solar_plasma (Mar 28, 2016)

Actually I like rib eye steak the most, but it has to be raised up in ger. Same for every other meat...no chlorine, no gene fodder, less or no hormones. Antibiotics is an issue though.

Most of what americans believe to know about germany is only correct for the south...bavaria and kindred. But this is a culture of it's own.  The real north has probably more in common with Denmark, Belgium, Scotland and the Netherlands than with bavaria I would guess.


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 28, 2016)

I watched a documentary last weekend that was mainly about the large cat species around the world becoming more aggressive. The researchers wound up following a worldwide outbrake of CDV(canine distemper virus) that had infected entire populations of wild cats, making them more aggressive and more tolerable of humans. That's a scary combination.

They said there was a large cat rescue sanctuary in Texas that had to put down I think it was like 60 animals after an outbreak recently. 

That show and this thread reminds me of being literally hunted by a pack of wild dog/coyote mix breeds about 12-13 years ago. Only time I ever waded that Creek that I had left my trusty .380 laying on my bed instead of putting in my backpack. Probably the most scared I've ever been in my life. I'm pretty sure they had it in mind to eat me if they could have pushed me into shallow enough water!


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## macfixer01 (Mar 28, 2016)

solar_plasma said:


> Actually I like rib eye steak the most, but it has to be raised up in ger. Same for every other meat...no chlorine, no gene fodder, less or no hormones. Antibiotics is an issue though.
> 
> Most of what americans believe to know about germany is only correct for the south...bavaria and kindred. But this is a culture of it's own.  The real north has probably more in common with Denmark, Belgium, Scotland and the Netherlands than with bavaria I would guess.





Back maybe 13 or 14 years ago a previous employer sent me to some training at their facility in Kiel Germany. It wasn't long after the beginning of he Mad Cow scare. I found it funny that all the restaurants in Kiel (far north in Germany) were advertising they only served beef from Argentina? I knew UK and US beef were in question at the time, but I thought it a bit strange at the time they were getting beef from a country so far away? I never realized at the time all the murky connections between Germany and Argentina, that started back in the days of WW2.


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## Lou (Mar 28, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> I watched a documentary last weekend that was mainly about the large cat species around the world becoming more aggressive. The researchers wound up following a worldwide outbrake of CDV(canine distemper virus) that had infected entire populations of wild cats, making them more aggressive and more tolerable of humans. That's a scary combination.
> 
> They said there was a large cat rescue sanctuary in Texas that had to put down I think it was like 60 animals after an outbreak recently.
> 
> That show and this thread reminds me of being literally hunted by a pack of wild dog/coyote mix breeds about 12-13 years ago. Only time I ever waded that Creek that I had left my trusty .380 laying on my bed instead of putting in my backpack. Probably the most scared I've ever been in my life. I'm pretty sure they had it in mind to eat me if they could have pushed me into shallow enough water!




Do tell more! Sounds like an experience. Wild dogs are becoming an increasing problem in many places. 

@ macfixer01
Ever see "Boys from Brazil"?


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## macfixer01 (Mar 28, 2016)

Lou said:


> UncleBenBen said:
> 
> 
> > I watched a documentary last weekend that was mainly about the large cat species around the world becoming more aggressive. The researchers wound up following a worldwide outbrake of CDV(canine distemper virus) that had infected entire populations of wild cats, making them more aggressive and more tolerable of humans. That's a scary combination.
> ...




Hi Lou,
No, I never saw Boys From Brazil but Mengele was known to be living in Argentina for many years after the war. A lot has come to light in recent years about the rat line of Nazi's who escaped from Germany to Argentina after the war, and the Red Cross's and Vatican's complicity in supplying false identities. There was an interesting really series on tv recently documenting research into whether Hitler himself escaped to Argentina also? Just a small part of what they found: They verified an underground tunnel between the bunker and the airport, eyewitness reports of a plane of Germans including Hitler landing in Spain just days before his reported suicide, reports of German U-boats still operating for months after the war in Germany ended (2 surrendered there and others may have just been scuttled), and reports of U-boats being resupplied by a base in Tenerife as a stopping point on the long trip down to Argentina. The suicide in the bunker story seems less and less probable, and I think it's pretty well forensically proven the skull that was claimed to be Hitler's was actually from a female.

Macfixer01


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 29, 2016)

Lou said:


> Do tell more! Sounds like an experience. Wild dogs are becoming an increasing problem in many places.



OK Lou, It'll be a long one but I'll try and give the details as accurately as I can recall. I've never told the whole story to more than a handful of family and friends. But here goes...

It was perfect weather, late spring/early summer, so naturally I called in sick so I could spend the day in the creek and catch up on some fishing.

I parked the truck off an old dirt road by a small Creek that led 200 yards to the main Creek. Then wade upstream 3-4 miles to a bridge and walk the roads back to the truck like I've done many many times.

I was taking my time try to be as quiet as possible. After the first mile or so I was easing around a bend in the creek and saw that a huge sycamore tree had fallen almost all the way across the creek. It looked recently fallen as it still had most of its leaves, and was still a good 20 feet tall laying down.

As I slowly got closer to the tree I started noticing streaks of muddy water flowing past me. I thought eh, probably turtles digging around under it. A bit closer and I could hear a little splashing. At 10 yards I could swear I was hearing bubbles being blown in the water. Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency had been releasing river otters in the area for several years, so I got excited thinking I was going to get to see a show.

I got a show alright. And they weren't otters!

I was waist deep as I eased around the top of the tree and found an opening in the branches. First thing I saw was a German Shepherd sized dog in maybe 20 inches of water, with its head underwater trying to catch something. I took another step and saw the 2nd dog at the same time he saw me. It gave the most menacing growl I've ever seen. I took another step and the 3rd dog on top of a well worn trail running straight up the 10 foot high left Creek bank let out a yelp/bark and came down the bank straight towards me sounding like Cujo.

The first two were headed toward the left bank as the 3rd was coming toward me. He came out about chest deep and was jumping back and forth going nuts not more than 15 feet in front of me. As he got to the water I was reaching back to unsnap my holster...damn, it was still laying on my bed at home. I think I felt my heart drop down around my kidneys somewhere.

Now, these dogs were shaped overall like a coyote. Pointy ears, snout, same thick bushy tail. They were marked and colored like a Rottweiler, and the size of medium German Shepherds. Apparently from the same litter.

I still wasn't overly scared at that point since they couldn't get to me without swimming. The 3rd started backing away toward the left bank. I moved a few feet to the right bank and grabbed 2 softball sized rocks. As I picked up the 2nd one, I hear a loud crack from the left bank. I spun around to see all 3 dogs run up the left bank and into the super thick patch of river cane, sumac, and 15-20' tall poplar saplings.

This is when all hell broke loose.

That cane thicket erupted into motion, whipping back and forth in all directions. This was accompanied by a sound that instantly froze me solid. It was like 20 packs of wolves sounding off at the same time. But not. Imagine the horn on a freight train, with an old air raid siren, and a heard of elephants going at the same time. Even though it was REALLY loud, it was the intensity of it more than the volume. I could almost feel the percussion from it in my chest as much as I could hear it.

I don't know what the word would be. What's worse than terrified? I was shaking so bad that I dropped one of my rocks. I bent over to get it and almost had my face in the water feeling for it when something splashed in front of me. I popped up straight and saw about a 2&1/2 foot long 3 inch thick piece of sycamore branch bob back to the surface.
Instant relief. Somebody from the right bank threw me a club to help. Scanned the bank. Nobody there. WTF!?!?! Time to go!!

I noticed when I turned to look at the right bank the screaming or whatever it was stopped. When I turned to the left bank it would start again. I quartered away from it and it stopped, so I started pushing my way upstream as fast as I could in waist deep water. The dogs followed snarling growling and popping their teeth for next half mile.

Every so often one would run out onto a gravel bar raising hell at me. Eventually made it to where the strip of bank they were on narrowed down to a steep bluff and they stopped following.

I have no idea what I encountered that day. The amount of fear was almost incomprehensible. It was like some primordial, prewired instinct that said leave now or you will die type of thing. I still wake up from dreaming about it like I did yesterday morning. Trembling, soaked in sweat.

Well that's the story. Sorry it was so long and if anybody knows what that could have been with those dogs, or if anyone has experienced anything similar I'd love to hear it.

P.S. I heard that scream again later that summer at the bridge I mentioned. Only in the middle of a cloudy moonless night. But that's a whole other story!!!

P.P.S. Oh, and the dog with his head under water. From the looks of the droppings I saw in the area, they were catching and eating craw daddies. (crayfish for the more civilized folks!)


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## upcyclist (Mar 29, 2016)

Wow. Scary.

The only think I can think of is that some other mammal(s) (prey? other dogs? human?) was in the area, and you couldn't see it/them, but the dogs could smell 'em. And at least one of them was in the cane on the left bank. 

I bet you don't leave your .38 on the bed any more


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 29, 2016)

upcyclist said:


> I bet you don't leave your .38 on the bed any more



I upgraded to .40 after the second encounter with the screaming whatsit! Still have no idea what to make of it, or the sheer power and force behind that scream. The thing had to have lungs like steel drums. Half expected a T-Rex to come crashing out of the bushes on me!


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## acpeacemaker (Mar 29, 2016)

Chupacabra :mrgreen: although the wiki picture doesn't really look like what I've always heard it to be.


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## nickvc (Mar 29, 2016)

The only footprints we have to worry about belong to bipeds who can't tell the difference between their own belongings and ours, unfortunately we aren't allowed guns so they seem to be on the increase...


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## FrugalRefiner (Mar 29, 2016)

nickvc said:


> The only footprints we have to worry about belong to bipeds who can't tell the difference between their own belongings and ours, unfortunately we aren't allowed guns so they seem to be on the increase...


The only footprints I ever feared seeing while hunting were the bipeds! They are the most dangerous animals out there. 

Dave


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 29, 2016)

UncleBenBen said:


> upcyclist said:
> 
> 
> > I bet you don't leave your .38 on the bed any more
> ...



Sounds like big foot. Yes I believe in big foot, laugh at me if you want to. 8) Make sure you keep a check down wind of you for noises.

I have a friend in KY that came eye to eye with one when he looked out of his trailer window one night he said. He said his window was 9' off the ground and there was a telephone wire down the next morning. He said he shot his window out that night. Scared him to death.

One of the eariest places I have been trough at night was Texarkana.

Worst scare I ever had was camped out the first night of a 4 night trip in Central America with 3 other friends. The idiots threw there meal scraps in the weeds. Middle of the night I am woke up by them scared to death because there was a panther moving around the outskirts of our camp. Couldn't build a fire because it was the rainy season. A couple of the guys were out in an open area contacting the base by radio. I walked out to see what they were finding out and about the time I reached them I herd the panther dart past me. We were not allowed to have guns with us. And I promised myself after that night I would never go back into the bush with out a gun and I have. I always have something with me.


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 29, 2016)

acpeacemaker said:


> Chupacabra :mrgreen: although the wiki picture doesn't really look like what I've always heard it to be.


 
Hahaha! Pretty sure el chupacabra would make a tasty snack for whatever this was! And yes I know how crazy the story sounds and that's why I've never really told it much, except about the dogs. But I figured after this long maybe if I could get some good ribbing and ridicule then just maybe that could point me toward some answers about it!

I haven't even gotten to the 2nd run in with it, which was much more personal and scary. And I even had my pistol that time!

But seriously, I don't know if it was some escaped exotic pet or something along those lines. I do know it scared the living hell out of me twice, and for a guy that up to that summer had spent essentially his entire life in the woods, usually alone, I haven't done it since. At least not alone, and outside of a campground.


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## acpeacemaker (Mar 29, 2016)

Growing up I had an aunt and uncle that had 800 acres next to a place called Exotic Animal Paradise. One day we were out playing around in the woods and heard a loud screeching growl. Looked up and saw 2 black swinging tails off hanging from a tree. Turned out 2 panthers escaped. That was the scariest longest run back to the house we had as kids. Then there was the time I was fly-fishing on the Arkansas. There's a right way and wrong way to run from a bear. You can play dead all ya want. Ive seen them first hand in action at work.


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## UncleBenBen (Mar 29, 2016)

acpeacemaker said:


> There's a right way and wrong way to run from a bear. You can play dead all ya want



You are so right. Same with most animals. I have no doubt that if I would have panicked and tried to run from those dogs I wouldn't be writing this.

And I sure ain't gonna lay down and let ANYTHING chew on me!! Whatever it is would be in for a fight! And all's fair in a situation like that! I'll take your eyeballs home in my pocket bear!

Edit: I say that yet I ran out of the woods like scared puppy from something I didn't even see.


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## kurtak (Apr 2, 2016)

UnceBenBen

that's quite the story --- sounds like wild dogs (or better put - dogs that have gone wild) we used to have a real problem with them "many" years ago here in central Wisconsin when I was a kid - people would have litters of pups & then when they couldn't get rid of them (sell or give away) they would take them out to "remote" wooded areas & turn them loose (this was before animal shelters were a popular thing) the problem was that by the time the owners turned them loose they were old enough to be able to survive on there natural predator instincts - but they also had no fear of man do to their short domestic life & so they had "no fear" of man --- reports of attacks by them became common enough that they needed to be eliminated through hunting 

It took something like 5 - 6 years to fully eliminate the problem & was at least in part responsible for promoting local animal shelters & spade nutter programs

Personally it is my policy to NEVER leave home with out one or the other of the items in the picture --- the .357 mag. goes with me in the woods & the .45 auto goes with me to town (& yes I have my concealed carry permit)

A buddy of mine showed me a picture of a sign (BIG State sign) we have at the boarder when you cross over from Illinois into Wisconsin - it says -------

WELCOME TO WISCONSIN --- then under that it says ------------

Criminals & Terrorist - BEWARE - we have armed our citizens with concealed carry permits - if you have intent to do harm you may want to consider going back to Illinois were they have made it easier for you :mrgreen: 

Kurt


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## Shark (Apr 2, 2016)

> WELCOME TO WISCONSIN --- then under that it says ------------
> 
> Criminals & Terrorist - BEWARE - we have armed our citizens with concealed carry permits - if you have intent to do harm you may want to consider going back to Illinois were they have made it easier for you



That made me smile.

I must say I like my Sig's for town, even in the local woods around here. Since the bears have started showing up in numbers, and the hog population is growing I have my easy carry rifle for the deeper woods.



And yes it is a hunting rifle.


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## Lou (Apr 2, 2016)

My woods personal side arm gun is my Glock 20 with hard cast lead. It's discouraging to most all critters in North America.


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## canedane (Apr 3, 2016)

My guess will be it is footprint from a taxman, with a little luck it is only a wolf.
Henrik


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## UncleBenBen (Apr 4, 2016)

canedane said:


> My guess will be it is footprint from a taxman, with a little luck it is only a wolf.
> Henrik



I laughed my head off at that one!!

Kurtak, I want that sign printed on a T-shirt.
We had a big problem here in the 80s with wild dogs. Probably the same reasons you describe.

I remember being about 8 or 9 years old. We were all out mushroom hunting, me my younger brother and our buddy we grew up with on one ridge. Our Dads one or 2 ridges over when we hear dogs yapping and running the ridge toward us.

We squeezed up a cedar tree together. Me being the oldest, my dad always made sure I had an old .22 revolver strapped to me with strict instructions on what to do if we heard dogs near us. I pulled it and gave the ol' 3 shot SOS. Dad replied with 3. I aimed at one of the dogs, who weren't the least bit concerned with the gunfire, and shot 3 times to confirm and hit it at least once. The dogs ran off in Dad's direction, big mistake for them. He and my buddy's dad dropped 3 more before they got away.

They had been hunted out by the early 90s, or so we thought! The run in at the creek would have been around 2003. It's a shame those 3 were so mean, they were some really good looking dogs!


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