# Refining a herogoneous bar



## Anthony.dev (Oct 14, 2016)

Hello I'm new here and looking for some help.

I have a mixed bar from the assay office 13.57% silver 22.38% gold and 27.84% palladium total weight is 1835.6g

I have been offered 97% value for gold and 93% for palladium.

Now I was thinking how would I get 100% or 99% market value for them ?

Would I have to remelt them separate them into separate bars to just have gold in one and palladium in an other ?

I'm guessing this would be difficult but any help would be appreciated 

Are there any companies that help with this service ?

Thanks in advance


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## Barren Realms 007 (Oct 14, 2016)

Welcome to the forum.

Since you are new to refining and you have been offered the payout percentages IMHO I would sell the bar as is.

The learning curve to process this bar and the set up costs for the equipment would be more than you would gain from processing the bar at this point. 

If you want to learn to refine the bar in the future you can continue to read up on it here on the forum. And as you read up on processing you will come to realize there are plenty of dangers in working with the solutions to process this material.

Did the buyer say anything about the silver in your bar?

What is the make up of the other 36% of your bar?


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## FrugalRefiner (Oct 14, 2016)

I would agree with Barren, with one minor exception; At the rates they've offered, I wouldn't worry about the silver.

22.38% gold * 1,835.6g. = 13.2 troy oz. * $1,251/oz. * 97% = $16,029.

27.84% palladium * 1,835.6g. = 16.43 troy oz. * $645/oz. * 93% = $9,856.

13.57% silver * 1,835.6g. = 8.01 troy oz. * $17.40/oz. = $139.36.

The gold and palladium are worth around $26 thousand dollars. The refiner has offered you very fair rates for a mixed bar. Take the offer and let them keep the silver assuming the rest of the bar is base metals.

Dave


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## anachronism (Oct 14, 2016)

As Dave and Frank have said- assuming the rest of the bar is in fact base metals- take the money and run.

It's a lot of work for very little return to try and process it. 

Jon


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## 4metals (Oct 14, 2016)

What form was the sample the assay office assayed? Did they produce the bar?

The reason I ask is this sounds very much like dental alloy which is notoriously difficult to get a homogeneous bar to begin with. If you took this to a refiner they would melt it and chances are the alloy would layer and make good sampling difficult. The only way to sample this is to add substantial copper to homogenize the melt. If the remaining 35 ish % in the bar is copper then this may have been done already. And who pronounced this a homogeneous bar? That is an odd claim as bars of this material are rarely homogeneous, the sample needs to be representative and as homogeneous as possible, that's what matters. But bars of this composition often layer on cooling. 

The rates you have been offered are very fair, a refiner would add on a melt and assay fee and probably offer less. I agree with the consensus here, take the dollars. Whoops, I mean take the pounds, you're from across the pond.


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## Anthony.dev (Oct 16, 2016)

Thanks for the reply's guys much appreciated.

I am hoping this won't be a one off and I will bE doing this on a regular basis, fingers crossed.

I have shopped around and I agree that what I have been offered is very fair but I would like to know a way to maximise the price for the gold and the palladium.

Has anybody had any experience in separating the metals?
Any advice on how to start or where to go for help ?

Again thanks


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## FrugalRefiner (Oct 16, 2016)

Well, as Barren said above, this is the best place to learn the art of refining.

I recommend starting with C. M. Hoke's book, Refining Precious Metal Wastes. It is written in layman's terms, and will give you a good introduction to the principals of refining. You'll find links in my signature line at the bottom of my post.

I created a thread a while back called Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum. It will get you familiar with how the forum works and provides some suggestions for searching and getting the most out of your time here. The forum software was updated a few months ago, and the options for "board style" changed. I haven't had the time to update that portion yet, but most of the rest of the thread is still relevant. Be sure to follow the link to lazersteve's Guided Tour of the forum, as it includes many more helpful links.

Before you dive into any of the processes you read about, spend a lot of time in the Safety section. Everything we do is hazardous, and you need to understand the risks and how to minimize them before you begin. You also need to know how to deal with the hazardous wastes you'll create in the process.

We also created a section called The Library, where we gathered some of the best threads on the forum and edited them down to make them a little easier to read.

That should get you started.  

Best of luck,
Dave


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## 4metals (Oct 16, 2016)

Actually they are not all that difficult to separate but you will need to be able to melt the bar and add enough silver to the melt to inquart the bar to digest in nitric. 
That will separate your silver and Palladium from the Gold. Then the silver can be dropped with hydrochloric acid as a chloride and reduced to a metal to melt. The Palladium can be separated with Dimethylglyoxime but that will be costly. You could cement the Palladium and dry it and digest it in aqua regia and add ammonium chloride and sodium chlorate to drop the Palladium salt. 
This may be a bit overwhelming for a beginner. Plus you need a oxygen assisted torch to melt the Palladium. 
After all of this you may still be charged to assay each metal and still be discounted a fee percent by the buyer. 
At the stage of the game you are at right now, I still vote you take the cash and learn on material that is easier for a start up refiner. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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