# A Minimal Refining Procedure for beginners???



## car (Feb 19, 2012)

I am new to this whole idea and am just wondering if there is a minimal method to refining chip-boards and all the other gold-plated things? I'm not thinking of making this an ongoing hobby but i have 3 broken stereos, 2 tvs, a baggie full of old broke down cell phones, a box full of old telephones, a useless computer keyboard and probably some more useless junk, that i would like to disassemble and refine into pure gold over this coming summer. I'd really like to do this and pull together a sum of cash, but I dont want to buy any equipment or chemicals. Is it possible I have the needed chemicals already in my garage or laundry room? Is it possible to do this a Cost-Free way? I saw someone say in another topic say that they're first project didn't cost anything. Is it worth it to do it this way? I'm willing to spend the next few months studying for it, I just want to know if I should even bother, given I dont want to invest anything into it.
Also I named everything I can think of that I have to recycle, how much gold do you think it'll yield? Its a freezer baggie full of broke-down cell phones(probably about 10), also a personal organizer and handheld windows pc thingy, and about 10 old school corded phones and maybe the old corded built-in caller id phone that i dont think is working, plus now that i think of it, a texas instruments calculator that no longer works. I think that's a good load, I'm really tempted to churn the gold from it. What do you think??

Thanks


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## martyn111 (Feb 19, 2012)

Sell everything you have to a board buyer, you will need to strip it all down to boards with no trash, then use the money to buy a very small amount of gold.
If you aren't interested in investing in equipment and don't want to use any chemicals thats the only way you will get any gold out of these boards.


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## car (Feb 19, 2012)

Well the reason I posted this in chemicals is cuz thats the main thing I wanted a way around. But equipment is actually the #1 thing I'd like to avoid, I really dont feasibly see myself ever investing in the equipment, are you saying every one of you is using boughten equipment? There must be some in-between no? I dont want to discourage people from answering(which I'm sure I am doing) but I just wanted to clear a few things up before I delve into all this. Is there really no way for a guy to 'pure-profit' this whole operation from scratch? I'm sure I'll have to give in on a few elements, but could you tell me some short-cuts or tricks for a cheap skater like myself. I would really like to minimalize the whole science lab as much as possible, I'm really very serious about this and am excited to make it work.
Thanks for the response btw


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## martyn111 (Feb 19, 2012)

Safety gear is your first investment, goggles, gloves, face mask, apron all of which need to be able to withstand chemicals.
Fume hood is essential if you intend to refine indoors.
If you are going to do it indoors then a dedicated building not in your home.
Chemicals, the minimum you will require is hydrochloric acid,for gold, plus household bleach, hydrogen peroxide and sodium metabisulphite.
The rest you could do with odds and sods you can find around the house.

The best investment you could make at this point is investing your time in reading Hoke's book, get yourself a free copy here
http://dominionrefining.com/files/Refining_Precious_Metal_Wastes_CM_Hoke.pdf

Edit to provide download link


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## qst42know (Feb 19, 2012)

Scrap the wires, aluminum, and steel, save or sell the boards. Hoard your money and buy only what you need.

You do know you can start very small as with an old glass coffee maker don't you?


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## martyn111 (Feb 19, 2012)

qst42know said:


> Scrap the wires, aluminum, and steel, save or sell the boards. Hoard your money and buy only what you need.
> 
> You do know you can start very small as with an old glass coffee maker don't you?




What about the forum mantra 'Safety first'?


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## car (Feb 19, 2012)

Hey thanks man
Very concise, I suddenly feel like I can easily make this work (I'm not doing anything but study until the snow is gone, so hopefully it wont be too scary by then)
I like that I recognize all the names of those chemicals, sounds like something I could find at wal-mart or home depot (am I wrong?)
I actually have a pole building so I'm good on that end, not sure if i should maybe do it behind the pole buiding though? Dont want the farmer to see me and think im making drugs :lol: Some of that equipment seems fishy too, do I need a gas-mask if outside?


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## martyn111 (Feb 19, 2012)

Most of the chemicals I mentioned you probably will find in walmart, being as I am in the UK I'm not entirely sure.
If you are working outside then you could possibly get away without the 'gas mask' as you refer to it, make sure you are upwind of anything you are doing, but note I do not condone this practice, your health is worth more than Gold.


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## qst42know (Feb 19, 2012)

martyn111 said:


> What about the forum mantra 'Safety first'?



But of course, never make coffee in it again. :lol: 

You can accomplish much and safely with a minimum of equipment. My last batch was over 3 ounces of gold in an old coffee pot, a Corning pyroceram dish, on a hot plate, with a box fan to ensure ventilation. A fume hood would be nice but it's not absolutely vital.

Added note: This was from jewelery not e-scrap!


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## martyn111 (Feb 19, 2012)

qst42know said:


> martyn111 said:
> 
> 
> > What about the forum mantra 'Safety first'?
> ...



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## car (Feb 19, 2012)

Oh i see what you mean about face mask
Yeah I'll probably stay outside and avoid the fumes, I think there might be a face shield laying around here somewhere also, if rubber overall water-waders count as an apron I'm all set.

Thanks a lot martyn111, I feel fully equipped for all this now, time to study chemistry

Hah our coffee maker just broke, if i cant get it to work I can at least scrap the timer clock. Definitely gonna study the pseudo equipment options, Thanks!


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## qst42know (Feb 19, 2012)

The key to being safe is study and start small. A few test tubes can be a big help to learn the reactions.

Start with Hokes book as a free download here on the forum.


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## butcher (Feb 19, 2012)

Car,
When you do decide to begin, I suggest you try processing memory fingers first; this material is easy to work with. And are a good way to get started learning, go to general chat and make a copy of the general reaction list, Go to Laser Steve’s web site, read his documents, and watch his video's, of course reading and studying about the safety of the chemicals and fumes of the acids, and reaction's of acids on metals and the gases produced, while in the safety section read dealing with waste, Hokes book is a fantastic tool for learning about the valuable metals and also the metals that cause trouble in solutions, it is a great tool to learn testing for values in solution, and the basic principles of the way things should be done, as you will see here on the forum this book is always recommended, as understanding what she teaches is very important with any recovery and refining you do, if you only work in electronics’ or with ore, it will not speak much of these, but the principles still apply, also reading the post getting your gold pure and (shinning) you will find Harold wash technique, it will greatly improve the quality of your gold.


Like qst42know, I do not use fancy lab equipment; most of my chemistry set can be found at the second hand store, or in an old kitchen, plastic buckets, 
(For fingers a one gallon bucket with holes drilled in the bottom that sits inside a bigger bucket of HCl/H2O2-H2O or Copper Chloride etching solution, also called acid peroxide solution, you will see this trick when you study Laser Steve’s discussions of this leach), glass canning jars, old coffee pots, electric hot plate, corning casserole dish, coffee filters, aquarium air bubbler, Mapp gas torch, (I also have other torches and furnaces, but you can get by at first without them), well this list goes on but you can set up a lab with very little money invested.

When first beginning do as your doing study a process you plan on using learn every thing you can before beginning, not only will you be able to work better understanding what your doing but you will also know what to do when it does not react the way you expected it to.

Do not just go out and buy all of the things you think you need, wait until you get to the point you know you really need that piece of equipment or that chemical.

Do not expect to make a lot of money or get large bars of gold, expect to spend a lot of time studying working and scratching your head, for very little pay.

Do not just go out and buy a lot of scrap material (E-bay is tempting but you can lose your pants and wallet there), with electronic scrap free is always the best price, learn the true value of what scrap you buy, and also learning to test scrap jewelry is also a must if you work with it.

At first save your most valuable scrap, learn and practice on the lower value or easier materials, until you get some experience.

Study, hard work, dedication, and attention to details makes pretty gold.

Once you have the foils from memory fingers you will also want to use the HCl/Bleach method to put your gold into solution, so you would also need to learn this process.

Different materials will usually use a different process.
And there may be several different processes to learn to get this material recovered and refined from scrap to finished pure melted gold.

Also follow martyn111, advice think safety first.

Welcome to the best place to spend a lot of time learning and then making pure gold.


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## car (Feb 19, 2012)

Thanks for that butcher.
I downloaded the ebook as recommended and am gonna have to get around to reading it all, I'm also going to make this site(this project) my main objective until I feel ready to start. All of that is really sound advice, I'll have to look into everything you mentioned. I think I have a good load already, and I'd hate to screw it up, I've just been hoarding this junk for no real reason and now I'm realizing the real value of it.
I have some cell phones, some old corded phones, 2 tvs, 3 stereos, 5 disk drives, 3 old school(smaller) disk drives, a broken computer keyboard, a broken mouse, a texas instruments calculator and believe it or not 5 older model dish boxes(which I may or may not try and sell). I'm excited to turn it all to gold, but what should i start with? Given its all about the chip-boards I'm not really sure. Or should I just study and decide after I see it all dismantled?

Thanks for the support


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## qst42know (Feb 19, 2012)

Of the materials you have named only the cell phones contain a notable quantity of gold, the keyboard silver on Mylar. And cell phones aren't the best items to start on. The rest are pretty slim odds you will find much so keep gathering while you study.


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## car (Feb 19, 2012)

qst42know said:


> Of the materials you have named only the cell phones contain a notable quantity of gold, the keyboard silver on Mylar. And cell phones aren't the best items to start on. The rest are pretty slim odds you will find much so keep gathering while you study.



Well that's a bummer, I am still finding cell phones the more I look though.
But I heard old telephones are more of a gold mine than a computer board, the term was "very old telephones", I took this to mean corded phones and not cell phones. Can anybody clear this up?
Sorry for doubting you qst42know, my hopeful thinking is getting the best of me :mrgreen:


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## qst42know (Feb 19, 2012)

You may find some silver alloy switch contacts in old phones. The real old phones sell on eBay though, check them before you destroy them.


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## car (Feb 19, 2012)

good advice, I noticed that also when I tried doing a search on them, didn't think to check the prices though. Wish they had chunks of gold in them, I have nearly 15.


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## Claudie (Feb 19, 2012)

Very old phones does NOT mean corded telephones. People are referring to the old phones from the 1940's and before. If you had a magic machine that could somehow squeeze every fraction of Gold out of the items that you mentioned, I doubt you would have much more than 1/2 of a gram. At today's prices that is less than $25.00. The chemicals to start with are probably going to cost you that much. :|


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## butcher (Feb 19, 2012)

If you are thinking there is a gold mine in electronics, your thinking wrong, yes there is some gold and valuable metals, yes you can get these metals out, it is not easy, and there really is not that much gold in them, otherwise gold would be very cheap, or they would not be throwing electronics in the trash. 

my suggestion if you want to make money find a job at Mc Donald’s hamburger joint they pay a better salary, and do not expect you to work so hard and learn so much.

If you want to learn a very challenging subject, spend your time studying, working hard, and messing with chemicals and metals for tiny amounts of gold, and then this is for you.

yes you can make some money from doing this, but you can also spend many hours for no pay, and possibly cost you more money than working at McDonalds and buying gold with the tips you get from customers.

I really do not know how to explain this their is money recycling trash, and you can probably make just about as much money recycling aluminum cans from trash as you can from recycling circuit boards for gold. You can also make some money (usually with higher value scrap like karat gold), but as with any business how you work has a lot to do with whether the business makes money or goes broke.

From your description it does not sound like you have much material to start with yet.
Think tons of that stuff, for grams of gold.


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## patnor1011 (Feb 19, 2012)

I second what Claudie said. Chemicals will cost more than you will recover. Good thing is that if you do AP you can reuse chemicals for next few batches. I would say that copper and aluminium from listed items will bring you more cash than gold. If you have access to more cell phones you can try to increase volume of material you want to process.


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## car (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks for all the humbling advice guys! 
I'm kinda one foot in and one out at this point, as I mentioned in my original post I was really only interested in a one-pop shot, half an oz. was my preferred goal (granted for all the learning it requires and if things go good I'd be insane not to try and make an on-going hobby of it). I guess I over estimated a lot on gold amounts, I thought I might get lucky and extract half an oz. from all my junk, but I see that's not the case. Unless I find something good that I've overlooked I'm going to have to start collecting more junk. So my question here is what electronics have the gold in them? And is it at all feasible for me to be setting half(even a quarter) oz. as a goal? I know even a small fraction of gold is still a lot of money so I can already see where this is going, but at what abundance of material does a quarter of an oz. start seeming feasible? I assume before you even start mixing your concoction you'd want to have about that amount anyways? I think I can round up some more cell phones but I don't think I can profit on jewelery. Whats the consensus?

I know you guys probably deal with guys like me all the time and its probably frustrating when most of them get over-whelmed and disappear, so thank you all for putting up with me and sharing all your secrets on this forum.  (I'm not saying goodbye I'm just saying thank you) I really love what you guys do and am more interested in doing the alchemical trick of turning trash into treasure than making quick-cash (well... maybe some quick-silver). 
Thanks


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## Geo (Feb 20, 2012)

it takes roughly 150 desktop computers to make an ounce of gold.

it takes roughly 2,000 cell phones to make and ounce of gold.

but out of the same amounts your looking at about 20 ounces of silver, not to forget about the palladium at about 6 ounces. this came from a web search so yields could be higher or lower. but the point is, if your going to refine part of it, you might as well get it all.


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## car (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks Geo.
Yeah I even collect copper so I hear ya, plus isn't silver a growing market lately?
I had a feeling it was by the truck loads, we could get out the calculator and do some math (i think 1000 grams is an ounce, no?) but if we assume gold to be $2000 an ounce and 2000 cell phones make an ounce, that makes every cell phone worth $1(Granted we know what we're doing, your calculations are head on, and gold market is exactly $2000 oz.). 500 cell phones = quarter ounce, I have a lot of collecting to do. I have one junk desktop and one junk laptop, where do laptops fall into all this? I guess I DONT have 500 bucks stashed away in my junk hoard.
-Still Hopeful 

EDIT to mention palladium: wow just noticed it at the bottom, that's one awesome metal, its almost at $700, its 6x more abundant than gold, for 25 desktops there's $700 worth of palladium alone in it.
-Growing hopeful by the minute


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## Geo (Feb 20, 2012)

31.1 grams in a troy ounce. 31.1g = 1OZT

cell phones may have $0.85 worth of PM's in it. but that's stretching it.

laptops are worth more in spare parts with a little over half the PM's a desktop has.

the real money in electronics is the copper, aluminum and steel that accumulates while collecting the "good" parts.


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## patnor1011 (Feb 20, 2012)

Geo said:


> it takes roughly 150 desktop computers to make an ounce of gold.
> 
> it takes roughly 2,000 cell phones to make and ounce of gold.
> 
> but out of the same amounts your looking at about 20 ounces of silver, not to forget about the palladium at about 6 ounces. this came from a web search so yields could be higher or lower. but the point is, if your going to refine part of it, you might as well get it all.



I know that these are only rough estimates but I would say that they are on really high side.
20oz Ag in 150 desktops? That is about 4,1g per desktop and that looks to me too high of an estimate or expectation.
6oz Pd in 150 desktops? That is about 1,25g per desktop and while I know Pd can be found in monolythic capacitors I do not think there is 70+ grams of them in one desktop. There is about 3-4grams (maximum) of monolythics in one desktop (mobo, RAM, video and network card, DVD/CD rom) and some Pd may be inside black chips.

I have no problem with your silver estimate but do not think you can find one tenth of your estimated Pd content in 150 desktops.


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## Geo (Feb 20, 2012)

yea, thats from the web. i thought it was wildly over estimated too. thats why i said it was from the web. im just saying if it were only a fraction of all that, if your going to go after any of it, you might as well get it all.


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## patnor1011 (Feb 20, 2012)

No probs, I was just reacting to what Car said. 



car said:


> ...EDIT to mention palladium: wow just noticed it at the bottom, that's one awesome metal, its almost at $700, its 6x more abundant than gold, for 25 desktops there's $700 worth of palladium alone in it.
> -Growing hopeful by the minute



Sorry to disappoint you but my data show something different. You look at about 50-100 grams of monolythics in 25 desktop and that will get you 2-4g of Pd maximum 40-80 $. There will be some more in black chips but probably less than in monolythics so lets say we look at one tenth of what you thought there is. I dont know where else there may be Pd in desktops apart from monolythics and black chips.


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## car (Feb 20, 2012)

Well just some questions guys. I'm going through my cell phone bag and had to put a few back together that were already ripped apart by someone. Looking at them, there's a lot of gold, are all these gold lines real gold? And what about the tiny writing that looks the same, even a little picture of a battery where the battery goes, this couldn't also be gold? My point is I'm having a hard time separating whats gold and whats not. Also are the charger teeth gold plated also? Same with the battery teeth, cuz these look the same as the gold lines(which I'm assuming is the gold we're referring to).
Another thing, what about 'pagers' (remember the 90s when those were all the rage?) anything in them? I found this motorola tiny pager looking thing, not sure what it is unless its someones garage door opener. :lol: How about them also? or remote controls? I only ask because cell phones have that piece of gold that connects the antenna, although remotes aren't exactly antennas, but pagers kinda are. If you haven't noticed I don't understand the technology or golds usage in it.
Every bit counts even if its one billionth the size of a crumb.
Thanks in advance for any light shed.

@patnor1011, yeah not a disappointment, I should have figured as much when I thought I was the only one noticing palladium's true potential, quite a few of you guys would be self made millionaires by now if you could turn 25 PCs into $700(not to mention the other PMs)


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## Geo (Feb 20, 2012)

most everything that's gold colored in a cell phone is gold plated, but its there for shielding and is very thin. it shields the electronics from outside radio interference.


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## butcher (Feb 20, 2012)

Car,
Sterling and Karat gold scrap is an obtainable source, I recommend you look for these, the electronic scrap adds to the pocket but not as much as the higher value scrap, but if you do not spend time educating yourself, on value, what to buy and how much, and how to resale, recover or refine, you can loose everything in that pocket.

Education is the real gold mine, quit looking for it in that shinny lil bit of gold plating on one cell phone, and dig into the real gold mine, the forum, and Hokes book.


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## butcher (Feb 20, 2012)

Car, I notice you reading this now.
Hoke's, also has another book on testing, pawnbrokers guide is also a very valueable tool, buying and resale is another option.

If you want to chat here we can.


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## car (Feb 20, 2012)

butcher said:


> Car,
> Sterling and Karat gold scrap is an obtainable source, I recommend you look for these, the electronic scrap adds to the pocket but not as much as the higher value scrap, but if you do not spend time educating yourself, on value, what to buy and how much, and how to resale, recover or refine, you can loose everything in that pocket.
> 
> Education is the real gold mine, quit looking for it in that shinny lil bit of gold plating on one cell phone, and dig into the real gold mine, the forum, and Hokes book.


 
Haha, I was waiting for someone to yell at me about going to study, I know I've been provoking it. But I've been reading the forum looking for things that speak to me at my level. Thanks butcher, I agree I need to make my way around to serious studying, I'm still greasing the wheels on this whole endeavor but that's not gonna get me to the end result. 
I do recall my brother telling me he found a gold necklace at a pawn shop that didn't seem to know it was real gold, is this what you guys do? I'd hate to steal grandmas jewelery(rest her heart) and melt it down, solely because I'd consider it antique and would feel bad(even if it were mine). But is that profitable? I see what your saying about knowing what your dealing with and understanding the business end. So could it be more profitable as refined gold than its current state as jewelery? I'm guessing you'd just have to get lucky and get a good deal on it. Did i miss anything on places to find jewelery? Your right my supply is short by a long shot so I'll keep an eye out.
Thanks for sticking with me everyone!


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## butcher (Feb 20, 2012)

Although the higher price of gold has brought many people's attention to it, there is literally tons of jewelry and sterling that is being scrapped.

Many people have no Idea about its value in that old shoe box of mismatched broken or just old jewelry, some think it is all worth something much more than it is (actual junk), or think that the ole junk is just not worth that much, many people may need a few dollars so they take this junk to a buyer, he may or may not give them a fair price, many buyers do not, or at a second hand store although rare you may find a sterling silver cup the store worker missed for 50 cents, at a garage sale you may ask the lady does she have any junk jewelry she has to sell, she may say yes boxes of that old junk.

If you know how to test, read hallmarks, be able to calculate value, you can give people a fair price, you may outbid the competition (pawn shop or cash for gold), who know the lady at the garage sale, may just be looking for you her friends all could sell there junk for a few dollars'

I live in the country, and so I do not frequent garage sales, I do buy scrap from my local gold dealer, for melt value, so I pay a little more today, but years from now when I need some bread it will be worth more dollars (and I will be able to buy as much bread as I can today).

You do not always need to learn just how to use chemicals here, there is information in this forum for a wide range of ways people can use the gold or silver for profit.

You are just hurting yourself if you do not dive in and study this gold mine of information.
Even if you never touch an acid bottle there is information here you could use one day.

I knew you were on the fence, and that once you learned how little the gold was in your scrap that you may decide to get back on the other side, studying will not cost you anything, but a little time, and who knows you may find that hidden treasure in this map the forum has made.

I just wish I knew what I know now, when I was a young man.

And If I do not learn today, when I am older, I will regret I did not take the opportunity to do so.


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## Claudie (Feb 21, 2012)

Very well said Butcher.


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## car (Feb 21, 2012)

Thanks Butcher, I am a young man so your point has hit home for me. I think I may or may not have some scrap laying around already, but in these few days I've already began seeing items differently, and I think I know what to feasibly expect to get from them. Even if I never act on this endeavor being here has already changed my perspective on my day to day life, I'm sure it will pay off ten fold someday, even if I walk away right now and never look back. But as for now I'm going to go get lost in the forum, everyone feel free to add anything else to this topic. I'm sure there's hundreds of nooby topics like this but I think this thread turned out really well, for lifting a nooby spirit and also humbling them to how the game works and what to feasibly expect, I know it really helped me. Not so sure it belongs in the Chemicals section though.
Thanks for everything everyone, this is a great community!


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## car (Feb 21, 2012)

Just want to say, I also have a metal detector and live in a 100 year old farm house but have never used it here. This place has made me realize how stupid I've been for putting it off this long, maybe THAT will be my big break. I know you guys have a metal detector section also, I'm excited to graph off this lot foot by foot and go looking.


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## butcher (Feb 21, 2012)

Years ago my daughter at 12 years old got a job babysitting for a neighbor (newborn premature), she also worked a vineyard (grape fields), she did not make much by the hour, (the wet backs she worked with made more by the hour), I told her to save her money and buy silver, silver then was about $2.80 per ounce, payday she would buy silver with her hard earned money, at seventeen years old she wanted to buy a piece of property, she cashed in her silver for $10,000 dollars and put it down on the property 6 Acres of beautiful forest trees some four foot diameter, well we started cutting trees and digging stumps & putting in a road, and clearing her a home pad, she made a deal with me, if I borrowed money on my house she would pay me back, I borrowed 50 thousand against my home, and we put her in a well electric and septic system, doing much of the work ourselves, we found a double wide manufacture home a guy gave me if would take it apart and moved it, we moved it out there and put it together and fixed it up, at the age of 23 she had paid off the loan she promised, and she owned her own home on 6 acres of forest land in the country worth $230,000 at that time.

Car, save those pennies, work hard, if you do not have a job start one, or start your own small business, buy silver, and when you have time to relax grab that metal detector and have fun.

A young man nowadays had best learn hard work, and put his money into the valuable metals, the dollar is loosing value fast, and it looks like hard times are on the way again, if a young man is smart he will work hard and get ahead in this game, or possibly go hungry later.

Do not be grasshopper summer may come to an end before you know it, prepare for winter.


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## Claudie (Feb 21, 2012)

That's good advice Butcher. If you can't afford to buy Silver, save those pennies anyway, the Copper ones.


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## nickvc (Feb 22, 2012)

For what it's worth my opinion is you seem bright, keen and eager to learn, put it to use and read up on sources of values, how to find them and how to identify what's worth saving and what's best sold on.
The forum is full of useful tips and breakdowns of values and for you your best bet is to locate more material and keep saving up till you have enough to start your experiments in recovery and refining.
The whole world is looking for an easy buck but in this business as your starting to see it's far from easy and knowledge is the key to success. The value of e scrap is mainly in base metals the precious metals are but a small part and should be viewed as a bonus unless you can find big volumes on a regular basis.
Start by looking how others are trying to source material, our own Joem has some good ideas, collect and learn as you go, make some money selling the base metals and hoard your sources of values until you have enough to make it worth your while or simply sell on and buy bullion.
There's many ways to make some money from this business and no one size fits all it all depends on whether you want to refine, it's not for everyone, or simply consolidate and sell. Get reading it's on here it just takes some effort to find it and then to put it into practice.
I wish you luck and remember the forum helps the most those who help themselves.


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## AztekShine (Feb 23, 2012)

Ya man I'm 31. I was watching Burt Wolf on PBS, he was somewhere panning for gold. That resparked my rock hound! Which long story short, here I am! I have a background in chemistry...more like a backyard but I kno a lil. I'm also buying silver every chance I get. All of this is a new hobbie for me. I keep atleast 2 projects going all the time. I grow edable mushrooms and brew alcohol. I'm going dredging for gold when the weather turns with someone I met on Vagold which is where I found this forum! I'm not in it to get rich! Jus looking forward.

This is a great forum. Very kind and careing people. Do your homework , read Hoke! 

For me FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION!


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## scraper1 (Feb 28, 2012)

car said:


> Well the reason I posted this in chemicals is cuz thats the main thing I wanted a way around. But equipment is actually the #1 thing I'd like to avoid, I really dont feasibly see myself ever investing in the equipment, are you saying every one of you is using boughten equipment? There must be some in-between no? I dont want to discourage people from answering(which I'm sure I am doing) but I just wanted to clear a few things up before I delve into all this. Is there really no way for a guy to 'pure-profit' this whole operation from scratch? I'm sure I'll have to give in on a few elements, but could you tell me some short-cuts or tricks for a cheap skater like myself. I would really like to minimalize the whole science lab as much as possible, I'm really very serious about this and am excited to make it work.
> Thanks for the response btw


Doe's A surgeon preform surgery with outa scalpel?


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## Rockman (Jun 10, 2012)

martyn111 said:


> Safety gear is your first investment, goggles, gloves, face mask, apron all of which need to be able to withstand chemicals.
> Fume hood is essential if you intend to refine indoors.
> If you are going to do it indoors then a dedicated building not in your home.
> Chemicals, the minimum you will require is hydrochloric acid,for gold, plus household bleach, hydrogen peroxide and sodium metabisulphite.
> ...



I have been researching and reading makin my list of necessary chemicals to disslove gold. Can anyone help me out with what I can use as substitutes to accomplish the process. I live in the sticks and only have a small hardware store with a very limited selection of chemicals. The shipping costs on these chemicals is high and if I can use common household chemicals it would sure make things simpler.

Stannous Chloride crosses with ??? :?: 
Sodium Metabisulfite crosses with ??? :?: 
32 % hydrocloric acid crosses with Muriatic Acid ??? :?: 
70 % Nitric Acid crosses with ??? :?: 
98% Sulfric acid crosses with battery acid 30% not as efficent but can be done ??? :?:


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## jimdoc (Jun 10, 2012)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6873#p6873


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## butcher (Jun 11, 2012)

Stannous Chloride crosses with??? 

You can make your own stannous chloride (tin dissolved in Hydrochloric acid) (HCl is also called Muriatic acid, used in cleaning brick and concrete, or for swimming pools).

HCl (hydrochloric acid can be made from NaCl, (rock salt and sulfuric acid, with the HCl gas formed from the reaction bubbled into water).

Ferrous sulfate (also called copperas, or iron sulfate) you can also test for gold using a crystal of copperas in a spot plate it will test for gold for gold in solution, and the copperas will precipitate gold from solutions (you can make this copperas from 10% sulfuric acid and the soft iron plates from transformers (I have a couple of posts with details).

Sodium Metabisulfite crosses with??? 
SMB it is used in wine making to sterilize the bottles, also called SMB, sodium sulfite will also work, some stump removers are actually SMB, (some stump removers are potassium nitrate, which is another useful chemical to have on your shelf) ferrous sulfate will work similar to SMB in precipitating gold although the chemistry is a bit different. 

32 % hydrochloric acid crosses with Muriatic Acid???


Yes, see above, check the hardware store, brick or construction supply houses, or pool supply house. 

70 % Nitric Acid crosses with???. 

You can make nitric acid from the potassium nitrate, or sodium nitrate fertilizer, and sulfuric acid ok for most reactions, but for silver the sulfate salts formed need to be removed by distilling the nitric acid, other sources of nitric acid is mining supply houses and chemical warehouses. 

Poor mans aqua regia is one of these nitrate salts in HCL. 

98% Sulfuric acid crosses with battery acid 30% not as efficient but can be done??? 

Battery acid, sulfuric acid can be concentrated up to around 98% by evaporating off the water, another source is some brands of drain cleaners.

Nitric acid has an azeotrope around 68% so that is as high as you can concentrate a weak nitric acid using evaporation, but that is as strong as you will need it for aqua regia, and the nitric acid is diluted with water to dissolve silver and, or base metals.

HCl azeotrope is somewhere around 20 %.

There are other methods to dissolve gold and some of the platinum group metals, depending on what you are processing, HCl/NaClO (bleach) (sodium hypochlorite), or HCl/32% H2O2 are some of the more common solutions.

Study Hokes book and the forum and learn the tricks before spending too much on supplies.
[


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## Rockman (Jun 11, 2012)

butcher said:


> Stannous Chloride crosses with???
> 
> You can make your own stannous chloride (tin dissolved in Hydrochloric acid) (HCl is also called Muriatic acid, used in cleaning brick and concrete, or for swimming pools).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. I am specifically looking for information to dissolve gold. What household chemicals can be used to disslove gold instead of 

Muriatic Acid can be used for 32 % hydrocloric acid 
potassium nitrate, or sodium nitrate fertilizer can be used for 70 % Nitric Acid
battery acid which is 30% can be used and refined in liue of 98% Sulfric acid 
sodium sulfite will also work, some stump removers are actually SMB, (some stump removers are potassium nitrate can be used for Sodium Metabisulfite
(tin dissolved in Hydrochloric acid) (HCl is also called Muriatic acid, used in cleaning brick and concrete, or for swimming pools can be used to make Stannous Chloride


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## maynman1751 (Jun 11, 2012)

> (some stump removers are potassium nitrate can be used for Sodium Metabisulfite



Wrong! Nitrates cannot be used to drop gold, but can be used to make Nitric. That's what Butcher meant.


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## butcher (Jun 11, 2012)

Bonide stump remover MSDS
http://www.bonide.com/lbonide/msds/msds271.pdf
sodium pyro sulphite, is just another name for sodium metabisulfite.
(Edited spelling mistake and added another link)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_metabisulfite

Spectracide brand stump remover MSDS
http://www.spectracide.com/~/media/Spectracide/Files/MSDS/Other/SpectracideStumpRemover_MSDS_DEC0308.ashx

Check labels and MSDS sheets.


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## kadriver (Jul 17, 2012)

In this video there is a picture of Stump Out (mfgrd by Bonide).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNq3Tp99XOE[/youtube]

Stump Out can be bought at Home Depot and at Ace Hardware. When you buy, ask for an MSDS and they will give you one.

It is sodium metabisulfite and it can be used to precipitate gold from Gold Chloride solutions.

Before use, dissolve in water to make a saturated solution and run it through a filter paper because it does have small amounts of dirt and other solids.

The filtered solution will work nicely to precipitate gold powder from AuCl2 solutions.

kadriver


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## kadriver (Jul 17, 2012)

Edit for spelling 

Also, make sure to do the precipitation outside or in a fume hood.

When the Stump out (in solution or powder form) is added to the AuCl, a poison gas is given off that will gag you.

I think it is sulfur dioxide gas. If you breath this gas then it will mix with the moisture in you lungs and form sulfuirc acid.

kadriver


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## Harold_V (Jul 18, 2012)

kadriver said:


> Before use, dissolve in water to make a saturated solution and run it through a filter paper because it does have small amounts of dirt and other solids.


I wonder how many of the readers would have drawn that conclusion? I expect not many, as I have read that the precipitant has been applied dry by some. 
Hygiene in the lab is key to the desired end result. A tough lesson for some folks to learn.

Harold


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## lazersteve (Jul 27, 2012)

I routinely use dry SMB to precipitate gold. I purchase chemically pure SMB.

There are many over the counter (OTC) substitutes for refining chemicals that contain impurities. Some of these contaminates can be removed with filtering others can not.


Steve


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