# All about silver button batteries



## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

This is my first post.I am mainly indebted with Noxx who made possible this wonderful forum,Mercy Noxx.

I am particularly grateful to Mr. Steven Sackett,with Steve I have learned more about gold recovery than the last twenty years,thanks Steve.

It is a pleasure to give thanks to Harold_V for his advices,sometimes rough but always wise and useful.

I would like to take the opportunity to thank Gold Silver Pro,Alfacglobal,Lou and Irons who have supplied information,answered questions or discussed points.

Finally,I tried to make my best shot,my english is not good enough so if I make mistakes,please,let me know.

Best regards

Manuel


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## Noxx

I really like your document, muchas gracias amigo. 

I didn't know there was silver in common batteries. Will see if I can recover some from 'em.


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## goldsilverpro

I downloaded it but haven't read it yet. Watch out for mercury. If I remember right, it was in the button hearing aid batteries.

Welcome to the forum, Juan.


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## agpodt77339

Just wondering... how much is lithium worth?


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

Thank you,GSP.You are right,as always.The batteries that you have mentioned have a lot of mercury,but you can recongize them pretty soon,they are taller than silver cells and do not have a manufacturer´s name behind and do not contain any silver.I promess to show a pic of them as fast
as I can,because if you open them liquid mercury flows down,the good news is that some of them are gold plated.

Best regards.

Manuel


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

agpodt 77339:

Lithium is the most reactive metal,of course,gold has more value than lithium but there are many tons of lithium in spent batteries.Battery manufacturers need lithium.Other guys that need lithium are drugs manufacturers because lithium is used in methamphetamine synthesis.

If you want to check how lithium is in a coin battery just open it like I said and inside the front part there is a yellow powder,this is the lithium compound.Do not worry,this type of batteries do not contain any mercury.

I hope it helps.

Best Regards.

Manuel


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## Lou

I seem to also recall reading/hearing that cadmium is present in some of those silver batteries. 



As far as the lithium goes, it's not the most reactive metal but it is the lightest metal and also the best reducing agent at room temperature. It's fairly expensive (~>$100lb).

Mind you, _most _lithium used in drugs manufacture is used by _legitimate _pharmaceuticals laboratories for making strong bases, for making salts, and also for the Birch reduction you referenced. As information to the forum, that procedure is hardly something amateurs can do--typically it is the Mexican superlabs that manufacture amphetamines in bulk for export to the US and they use that procedure.


Just trying to clear it up.


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

Lou:

It is correct, some kind of rechargeable batteries have silver and cadmium,but they are military types.

I did not know about the lithium price,could be a good bussines.

You are right about lithium reactivity and I was wrong,Cesium is the most reactive metal.

About the use of lithium in meth synthesis I want to say that the "Nazi method" is a process created by German Nazis during WWII,it is not a mexican process.Cooking meth is made everywhere,Superlabs ( in Mexico,USA,or any country) are easy detected so drugs manufacturers prefer common places to process illegal drugs (probably near your home in USA,probably near my home in Mexico). Meth processing and consuming is a shared problem between Mexico and USA and both countries must faced up to its own responsabilities and fight together to defeat drug´s Cartels.

Lou,it is my honor exchanging opinions with you.

Manuel


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## Lou

The reaction you refer to is called the Birch reduction and it uses lithium (or sodium or other alkali metals) in anhydrous ammonia--it has a nice blue colour to it too (from free electron)! It is a very general reaction but finds special use in steroids and fine pharma use and is by no means "special" to illicit materials manufacture. It's just been perverted to that use :-\ Perhaps the Nazis did use it, but I couldn't see why as there are cheaper ways. I'm no historian though. Unfortunately, there are a million other ways to that problematic molecule which is 99% of the problem when combating the horrific substance. As far as Mexico goes, I just know that the majority of large narcotics busts occur there because there is little restriction on the precursors to that and other controlled substances. That, thankfully, is not the case in the US.

I am no organic chemist--that field isn't what I specialised in, but I know that this process was discovered by an Australian chemist, Arthur Birch (a hell of a chemist too, he was very prolific and we owe much research into steroids/hormones to him!!). 

Anyway, if you'd like to discuss this more (particularly the politics), let's do it privately. I don't think this has any relevance to the forum--our interests lie with making money from metals, not making misery.



After post: here's the wiki on the actual procedure in case anyone wants to fact check me-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_reduction


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

Lou:

You are right,I do love discuss with you about all topics,except politics,religion and baseball because friends never discuss about them.I consider you my friend..a big one.

Best regards.

Manuel


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## Lou

Fine with me--we'll keep it to more profitable topics! I really don't get bent out of shape if someone disagrees with my politics, religion, or anything else opinion-wise. I like to think of myself as being open minded so long as someone isn't forcing their idea of what's right down my throat. As Voltaire once said (paraphrased of course): "I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" I try to live by that unless it is someone promoting a dangerous procedure or spreading misinformation that could hurt someone else.


Take good care,

Lou


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## bagus

Hi Juan,
This is my collection of silver button batteries.



I've read your PDF but I'd like to ask about the nitric process, can use diluted nitric acid (1:1) to dissolve the silver? because honesly I don't like the way nitric boiled when dissolving metal?

Best regards,

Bagus,


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

baguskd:

I do not like acid boiling too...but less acid (1:1) will not dissolve all the silver/silver oxide pellet.You can add some hydrogen peroxide or wash nitric oxide gases with lye solution.

Be careful about selecting the batteries...I see in you bag some lithium and manganese dioxide type,remember,small batteries are silver type.

Best Regards.

Manuel


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## qst42know

baguskd said:


> I've read your PDF but I'd like to ask about the nitric process, can use diluted nitric acid (1:1) to dissolve the silver? because honesly I don't like the way nitric boiled when dissolving metal?
> Bagus,



The electrolyte in a silver oxide battery is alkaline, potassium or sodium hydroxide. 

I wonder if boiling the opened batteries first in water to remove the hydroxide might be beneficial? It would certainly reduce the nitric acid consumption.


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## butcher

I noticed the small watch batteries in the bag,

note the larger lithium type batteries (computer type batteries) have enough current capability to short out and explode if put in a bag like that.


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## bagus

butcher said:


> I noticed the small watch batteries in the bag,
> 
> note the larger lithium type batteries (computer type batteries) have enough current capability to short out and explode if put in a bag like that.



There are no lithium batteries in the bag, I've sorted it out and the remaining are silver button batteries only (most of it are SR types).


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## butcher

yes I noticed You had all watch type battery's in your bag, my comment was for other members who may collect or save battery's and as a safety suggestion, Ni cads and other high current battery's can also be a danger, putting a piece of tape to keep them from shorting out is a good idea.


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## gecekurdu42

Hi. This is the great forum. Thanks for to everyone
ı buying to 5 pound watch batteries in my city. İs batteries is % 40-50 silver button batteries. 
So 2-2.5 pound silver button batteries dissolved = 300 - 350 grams Silver Nitrate. ( % 28-30 )
Total watch button batteries % 12 - 15 Silver. 
( Sorry my english very bad )


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

Congratulations!!!!!!!.

By the way,where are you from?

Kindest regards.

Manuel


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## gecekurdu42

ı am live in Turkey. 1 pound watch batteries : 15-25 dolars.


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## gecekurdu42

Juan Manuel Arcos Frank said:


> Congratulations!!!!!!!.
> 
> By the way,where are you from?
> 
> Kindest regards.
> 
> Manuel




Hii Manuel
This İron very problem nitric acid. ((
Breaking the acid.


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## amosfella

Juan, I heard on another thread that you had another process that doesn't involve nitric acid but flouroboric, Do you have any information on this that you'd be willing to share??


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## amosfella

Also, would it be easier to use a ball mill to open the batteries??


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## BAKARAT

Thank you,GSP.You are right,as always.The batteries that you have mentioned have a lot of mercury,but you can recongize them pretty soon,they are taller than silver cells and do not have a manufacturer´s name behind and do not contain any silver.I promess to show a pic of them as fast 
as I can,because if you open them liquid mercury flows down,the good news is that some of them are gold plated.


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## BAKARAT

Can I ask you something? I try to dissolve AgCl with NH4OH. All liquid was brown but AgCl do not dissolve. I pour 1 liter NH4OH for 250s gr chloride.Can you explane me how exactly i have to do it?


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## BAKARAT

I try to recover mercury with no success


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## lazersteve

BAKARAT said:


> Can I ask you something? I try to dissolve AgCl with NH4OH. All liquid was brown but AgCl do not dissolve. I pour 1 liter NH4OH for 250s gr chloride.Can you explane me how exactly i have to do it?



The liquid should turn bluish purple as the AgCl dissolves. A little heat and a lot of stirring helps. The aqua ammonia should be at least 10% concentration, with 28% preferred (conc. NH4OH). Be very careful when using full strength aqua ammonia, it will take your breath away and have you quickly drooling, choking, crying, and gagging (it's a very strong lachrymator)! Never let silver chloride plus ammonia solutions dry out! Always acidify with HCl before storing. 

I've used ammonia to dissolve the silver chloride, then filter and acidify with HCl to precipitate silver chloride that is very clean. The trash, base metal hydroxides, and any solid Rh or Au flakes (if present) end up in the filter. It's a great way to clean up dirty silver cholride. As a rule of thumb silver chloride should never be allowed to dry out or the aqua ammonia will not pentrate the hardened silver chloride unless it is crushed and ground to a fine powder.

Steve


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## amosfella

Could one avoid breaking the batteries by dissolving the bodies of the batteries in hydrochloric acid??


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

May be,but the problem is to recover silver.

Adding AR to the batteries instead on nitric acid leads to dissolve the shell and all material inside battery still undissolved,I mean, you can recover the silver/silver oxide pellet but AR forms a silver chloride film on pellet´s surface and this is the problem.. recovering silver from those pellets is a nightmare,they can not be dissolved by nitric acid or any other solvent,if you try to melt them with Na2CO3 be careful because...the pellets explode!!!!!!!.

Probably,if you mill the pellets to face powder,mix well the powder with Na2CO3 and follow Kunda´s patent instructions then you will get fine silver.

Orignally,I was trying AR but these huge explotions took me to switch AR to nitric acid.

Keep us posted about your progress.

Regards.

Manuel


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## amosfella

I had actually meant to just use HCl and dissolve the bodies. Not using AR. And Then the silver should remain undissolved... Would silver oxide dissolve in HCl??


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## butcher

silver oxide will convert to silver chloride, silver chloride will be insoluble in iron chloride solution.


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

HCl will not dissolve the shell,specially if you have VARTA or RENATA type.

As Butcher pointed out perfectly right,HCl reacts with silver oxide to form silver chloride so you will have the problem that I said before.

Hope it helps.

Regards.

Manuel


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## butcher

here is what I might try:
I generate alot of used acid peroxide (copper chloride).
used copper chloride, and the batteries I would smashed to open case (or pierce with a punch) as I would not want any to blow open and cause damage or safety risk.
hotplate, used copper chloride, old coffee pyrex pot, medium heat, with batteries, let reaction heat to thick syrup, adding more copper chloride, till nothing but white powder remains in thick black solution, lower temp pour off liquid(iron chloride, copper chloride) from now copper chloride and silver chloride white powder, now use some green(air bubbled used copper chloride) some new HCl and peroxide and remove copper I chloride white powder into copper II chloride green solution, leaving silver chloride white powder, at end boil in HCl dilute and treat as silver chloride. ---some of these steps are repeated several times).


the copper/Iron chloride thick black liquid is saved, it will dissolve copper easily when heated, changing copper metal to copper I chloride white powder.


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## amosfella

I went through, and corrected the English. I also added a few of the discoveries from my research from the small bag of used batteries that I got from the local jeweler. Those discoveries are highlighted in blue. 
Now, something I was thinking about. What about dissolving the battery's shell in dilute sulfuric acid?? Isn't dilute sulfuric not supposed to dissolve silver which would leave the silver and silver oxide on the bottom of the pan, lowering the risk that silver may remain trapped in the battery shell??

I haven't tried this yet, and I thought I'd ask the chemical geniuses here before I tried.


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

Amosfella:

I did not try sulphuric acid...may be it works...try with a few batteries and keep us posted.

Kindest regards.

Manuel


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## abnasc

Juan,

Thanks for your directions about silver button batteries recycling!  

I've started some tests, and I've obtained values varying from 5 to 17,5% of sample weight (mostly 12%). Could you say if you still get about 30 to 35%?

But I have one more question: when adding ammonia, I dissolve silver chloride, leaving mercury chloride, that to me appears brown. In your doc, you said we get a black precipitate. Should I use more ammonia until reach this black precipitate or just search for remaining white clumps?

(I read that silver battery Hg contents are 0,2%, but I obtained much more...)

Thanks again!

Alexandre


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

Alexandre:

REANTA batteries have the best silver content,newer batteries have less silver than old ones.

20% in weight is a good value for new batteries.

The brown mud contains a little bit of silver chloride,add a liitle more ammonia.

Kindest regards.

Manuel


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## Ian_B

Just out of curiosity Juan what is the concentration of the aqueous ammonia that you use? is it regular unscented household grade or industrial 30% ?

Edit to add* 
In the manual that you posted you never mentioned this but what kind of reaction happens to the solution after you add the Nitric acid to the batteries? I just made a small test batch of a little less then Half of what you have mentioned I used 100gr of batteries to just under 500ml of 35% +/- 4% Nitric. An almost immediate colour change of clear to orange occurred the batteries innards were very much exposed and i still waited the 30mins but the solution never changed from the dark orange colour. currently the solution is being passed through a filter 

would I be correct in assuming that this colour change is from the metal casing of the batteries? 

Thank you


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

Ian_B:

I used 15 % regular grade solution of ammonia.

Nitric acid is a powerful oxidant,so it takes place an oxidation reaction of all metals in button cells,then oxides are turn into nitrates,wich they are all soluble in water.

Hard to say about where the orange colour comes from,some times rubber seal(specially VARTA batteries) reacts with nitric acid changing solution´s colour.

Do not worry about colour except when you have formed silver chloride,if silver chloride is not white then there is some contamination.What colour is your silver chloride?.

Keep us posted about your progress.

Kindest regards.

Manuel


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## Ian_B

after the first precipitation the silver chloride was a very very light tan colour to white I believe it just needs to be rinsed a few times more to clear it up.

will keep you posted

thank you


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## Goldfinger4

Why don't you drop the silver directly from the silver diamine complex? I think returning it to silver chloride is unnecessary..
Simply give sugar to the solution and heat to 70°C (not boil).


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## Ian_B

After reading your reply Juan I recalled seeing some orange seals on some of the batteries that I had used in the first "test" batch I found a couple of VARTA shells but I was unable to find the seals that went with them and I was unable to find any orange seals anywhere in the residue/shells that were processed. This led me to believe that the orange colouration that I noticed in the solution was from the seal itself being dissolved in the Nitric Acid. 

To partially prove my theory I took 10grams of Maxell Batteries. I cut them the exact same way as in the previous 100 gram test. I used 40ml's of Nitric acid and stirred the solution a couple of times within the 30mins. The first thing I noticed was the solution instead of being the Orange colouration from the first batch was a very very dark green. After filtering solution and cleaning up residue with some water and passing through the same filter the solution lightened slightly. 

I then added a solution of 20mls of distilled water with roughly 6grams of salt dissolved as best as possible. Immediately the Silver Chloride dropped out of solution and was a bright white colour, the remaining solution was a light green colouration. 

After rinsing the Silver Chloride twice with distilled water the colour of the rinse water was a light light yellow tint. After the third was the water was for the most part completely clear.

This leads me to believe that the Varta Batteries are to blame for the tan colouration that occurred with the first test of 100grams of Silver Oxide batteries

The next test that I will do when I get a chance is to either dissolve 1 Varta battery in a test tube with around 5mls of Nitric, do a 10gram batch of Varta Batteries with 40mls of Nitric, or disassemble 10 grams of Varta batteries and remove the seals process the batteries the same way and then use 40mls of nitric with just the seals from the Varta Batteries to see if the seals react to the Nitric and if so what colouration the Nitric acid takes on.


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

Ian_B:

NICE JOB!!!!!....

Keep us posted about your progess.

Regards.

Manuel


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## Ian_B

I have yet to carry on the tests with the varta batteries however I did process roughly 80grams +/- 3grams of verified Silver Oxide Batteries that were from Maxell, Sony, and Reneta if I had to guess I would say 50% were maxell and the rest made up the balance.Most of the Maxell batteries were very thin and small so possibly a thicker battery would have a higher Silver Oxide to battery casing rario. After processing exactly to the T from the document I melted and have a button that weighs 15.3grams I believe I have an additional at the very most 1 gram in the rinse water used that i have yet to process and in the filters used.

So If i had to put a number on it I would say around 16grams of Silver from the 80gram test batch of SR batteries


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## qst42know

As a safety caution update when deciding to work with silver oxide batteries. I just bought a silver oxide watch battery new. The paper packing indicates a mercury content the metal package does not. House brand from Radio Shack.

Some safety measures for dealing with mercury might well save your health.


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## Goldfinger4

And where do you find used batteries? Maybe one should ask watch sellers nearby..

The Meth story is correct! Yesterday I visited the military historic museum in Dresden and they show Meth pills used in the Second World War. They produced millions
and even gave them to children who had to help in anti air batteries at night.


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## dvdczar

can anyone suggest somewhere that pays the supposed $100 a lb for lithium? all of my searches have proven nada they all seem to want to charge a fee to take it.


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## goldenaxe

Hi everybody,

I am new here and interested to adopt the Precious Metal Recovering from waste as business. I have come to know by reading this thread from start to end that about 2 grams of silver can be recovered from 10 grams of Silver Oxide button cells. 
I want to ask that can we also get some precious metals from Alkaline and Lithium batteries also? If you than how? 


Thanks


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

Goldenaxe:

Alakline batteries contain zinc and carbon.Lithium batteries contain lithium but no PM.

Best regards.

Manuel


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## goldenaxe

Juan Manuel Arcos Frank said:


> Goldenaxe:
> 
> Alakline batteries contain zinc and carbon.Lithium batteries contain lithium but no PM.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Manuel



Thanks Juan,

It means that we should only concentrate on Silver Oxide buttons.


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## traderdans

Silver Oxide Batteries are at least 25% silver by weight. Ask me how I know.


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## patnor1011

Just read whole of this thread. 
This is how we know.
And some of us who did few will go for up to 40% of weight.


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## necromancer

butcher said:


> yes I noticed You had all watch type battery's in your bag, my comment was for other members who may collect or save battery's and as a safety suggestion, Ni cads and other high current battery's can also be a danger, putting a piece of tape to keep them from shorting out is a good idea.




thank you butcher for addressing this matter

yes, they will blow up and catch fire if shorted out, not fun at all
please use tape on them, it may only happen once in 10 years but you do not want it to happen in your home while your family is asleep


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## mkakavan

Juan Manuel Arcos Frank said:


> baguskd:
> 
> I do not like acid boiling too...but less acid (1:1) will not dissolve all the silver/silver oxide pellet.You can add some hydrogen peroxide or wash nitric oxide gases with lye solution.
> 
> Be careful about selecting the batteries...I see in you bag some lithium and manganese dioxide type,remember,small batteries are silver type.
> 
> Best Regards.
> 
> Manuel




So does it mean that for example S44 or Duracell 303/357 silver oxide batteries do not contain much silver since they are bigger than the rest?

Thanks


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank

mkakavan:

Not at all...SR-44 silver oxide batteries are the best because they contain ... 1 gr. of silver!!!!,but they are pretty expensive so it is quite rare to find them .People prefer LR-44 manganese oxide battery because it is cheaper.

What I mean in my work is that you have to add an exact quantity of nitric acid,more acid than needed will rise costs and NOx gases,less acid than needed will not dissolve the silver/silver oxide pellet.

I hope it helps.

Kindest regards.

Manuel


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## kadriver

Our scale only goes to 10 pounds and this bag pegged it out.




Looks like I'll be cutting open batteries so quite some time.

This will be my first venture into recovering metals from old batteries.


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## g_axelsson

Better sort them first, some of the flat ones are lithium batteries, for example a CR2016 I spotted in the picture.

Göran


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## Palladium

At the beginning of the year i had a client contact me about processing a ton batteries a month. Most people try to hammer mill the batteries open but this will lead to a high iron contamination. They were pulling as much iron out as possible with several methods but it was time consuming and troublesome. It was causing problems with the recover and refining stages because of the high iron content. I used a little physic and some engineering and $ 30,000 dollars later came up with the answer. I love silver batteries ! One important part is to do a good water wash to remove as much potassium or sodium as possible before you start the refining process. Once those problems are removed ( The opening of the batteries and Base that eats the acid ) then recover is simple. Here's the first video of them starting to get the design down pat.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oF8GvEKnhg&list=UU3lLIWQksiZIClYudB5gK3Q

I ran two types of tests – first filling a tube with batteries and heating them horizontally configured coil. I ran the heat for just 1.1 seconds and about 1/3 of the batteries exploded. Leaving the heat on longer would have certainly exploded all of them as every battery was expanded and ready to go.



We then changed the coil configuration to a vertical coil where we could just dispense the batteries down through the coil. With this configuration, we made a make shift paper funnel and dropped a handful of batteries through the coil. You could see smoke coming from the end of the tube, but we only had 1-2 batteries blow.



With this test we were running with 7.5kW of power and while we did not get any batteries to blow, they did get quite hot to the touch and most, if not all the gaskets had expanded. We feel the vertical approach would be the best approach to process a high volume of batteries, however the job would require more power and a special induction coil from rectangular tubing.



We are thinking that 25kW of power would be required for this job, which has a $31,000.00 budget and to design and build the proper coil you would be looking at $2-3,000.00. We do have a 25kW system in our lab to run further tests with, if your customer has the budget for the systems and is willing to fund the building of the proper coil for continued testing.



Right now the coil length we had was about 6” in length and we think we need to be about 8-10” in length, with a more robust design to handle the additional power.



I look forward to your review and response


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## Harold_V

I would recommend caution in that process, as you're likely to inadvertently introduce some mercury batteries. 

Harold


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## jason_recliner

That's a really interesting idea, Palladium. If I may contribute a thought...

Obviously the speed is pretty high (and a constant) when dropped through a vertical chute. As you've pointed out, to get the heating/time you want you need a longer induction coil which linearly requires more power. Diagonal feed will reduce the velocity but clogging is going to be trouble.

If it's still in the brainstorm stage, what about a hopper that feeds the input of a horizontal tube, on which you have a conveyer belt feed of adjustable speed? It would be fairly cheap to tool one up and could potentially give you huge savings in power costs in the long term.


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## edsikes

. i have been told that acetic acid will break down the silver oxide as well does this actually work? has anyone tried it to any effect?


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## edsikes

ok so i received a reply to my post. thank you manuel for the answers! 

apparently acetic acid will break down the silver oxide. but WONT break down the metallic silver also found in the battery nitric is needed for that so it makes more sense to just use nitric and have it all done in one shot


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## MarcoP

I've probably got my hands on a regular supply of mixed watch batteries and now I have two newbie questions.

Reading Manuel's document it says to use enough nitric to dissolve only AgO2/Ag, an excess would instead dissolve even the Fe/Ni casing. But with my little knowledge I've learned that more reactive metals like Iron and Nickel will dissolve before the less reactive Ag thus leaving me perplexed. How come, here, AgO2/Ag will dissolve before Iron and Nickel and not cementing back on them?

The other question I have in mind is how much per kilo, or per pound, would you be willing to pay for a batch of only silver oxide batteries? In mind I had about €40 per kilo (about $20USD per pound), am I too tight, too generous or about right in my calculation?


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## MarcoP

I hate bumping but it seems that posted content during determinate hours doesn't show up in the new posts list in time for the majority to read it.
Could anyone answer the first of my questions above please? Don't really care about the second one because everyone costs may be different...

Thanks in advance.


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## solar_plasma

It is Ag2O, not AgO2.

In Ag2O the silver doesn't need to be oxidized, it is monovalent and stays monovalent if dissolved in HNO3 and it should readily dissolve. Surely faster than the massive metals, which have to be oxidized and have a smaller surface exposed to the acid. For the rest of your question I can't give an answer and I participate your confusion.

I can only raise a new question: Is it only because of the exposed surface? This would make sense, if both the Ag2O AND the Ag are in the shape of fine powder or porous. Waiting too long Fe and Ni would start to oxidize and reduce Ag+ back to Ag0.


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## g_axelsson

My guess is that the silver oxide batteries are made of stainless steel. Stainless steel is resistant to nitric acid, nitric is an oxidizing acid and the stainless steel is covered in a thin surface of oxides that shuts the acid out, it passivizes the surface of the metal so it doesn't dissolve.

I don't have any yield numbers as the few button cells I have is not enough to do any serious statistics with.

Göran


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## solar_plasma

https://www.google.com/patents/WO2011113903A1?cl=de

This patent tells both of them can be used: stainless steel or any nickel coated deep-drawable steel. Maybe both explanations are true.


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## jungle_Dave

The Cathode is a pressed disk Ag20 with layers of KOH (NaOH) to form the positive charge,

Ag20 + H20 +2e --> 2Ag + 2OH..

Any mercury would be in the zinc anode if I am not mistaken.

The cathode is the only part of the battery that's interesting on a small scale, How are people cutting the batteries?
Thanks


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## jungle_Dave

Just did my first batch!

After reading everything on this post, doing some outside research and a few experiments I took a 75 gr sample of the kg or so I have on hand of 100% confirmed silver oxide batteries .

I opened the lip of the battery with a pliers / wire cutter combination.

1) I places these exposed batteries in a water bath, in 24 hours this solution turned a brown tan color.
a) ph tested the water as found it was very alkaline.

2) filtered the leach solution and saved the the brown sludge and black particles.

3 ) washed the batteries again 2 times and tested the rinse until it was in the normal range.

4) I left 100 ml of water in an 1500 ml flask ( just enough to cover the batteries) added 300 ml of nitric acid (52%) in 5 stages.
This produced more fumes then I expected, but was able able to vent it safely.

5) once the nitric acid stopped reacting I decanted the solution to 600 ml of water, this produced a very blue solution with hints of green. I was left with the battery casings and some black powder which I saved for later.

6) Filtered the solution to remove more of the seals and some more black powder.

7) Added table salt to the solution, got an immediate reaction with a white cloud that settled in 30 or so minutes to form thick course off white clumps with a hint of tan. The solution lost its blue color and turned green.

8) took a sample and added extra salt to this noticed no more white precipitate.

9) decanted the green liquid to a storage vat filtering as I went left 100 ml of the solution in the flask.

10) added 600 ml of cold water to the precipitate and the solution turned a very light green.

11) decanted again, this time saving a small sample of the precipitate, added ammonia to dissolve, noticed no black sludge in the test tube.
(I later found that the batteries were Hg free) 

12) decanted again and washed with hot water, mixed and let settle this produced a tan colored solution.
I repeated this twice, the third solution is now clear with a very fine snow white powder.


So now I have my AgCl precipitate, clear solution, green solution and tan solution.
Im pretty sure my green solution is the zinc which I would like to drop and save but whats the tan solution?

Any ideas?


Thanks

Dave


----------



## Harold_V

jungle_Dave said:


> So now I have my AgCl precipitate, clear solution, green solution and tan solution.
> Im pretty sure my green solution is the zinc which I would like to drop and save but whats the tan solution?
> 
> Any ideas?


Well, yeah, I do have, but please understand I'm not trying to give you a bad time. 

Have you given any thought to testing? Stannous chloride, DMG and various other testing procedures to help you identify what you really have? It's all in Hoke's book, as are the instructions for making the test solutions. Until you know and understand these procedures, you're going to have an endless supply of things that mystify you. 

You shouldn't be too interested in what others think. They may be wrong. That's why you should read more, and learn to do your own testing. I found it to be the best possible solution when I had unknown substances in solution. 

Tan solution? No solids? Have you tested for palladium? 

When you have traces of palladium mixed in silver (in solution), it's not uncommon for the solution to have a green color, which will shft towards brown as the percentage of palladium increases. 

Test. That's conclusive. Much better than guessing. 

Harold


----------



## jungle_Dave

Harold_V said:


> jungle_Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now I have my AgCl precipitate, clear solution, green solution and tan solution.
> Im pretty sure my green solution is the zinc which I would like to drop and save but whats the tan solution?
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yeah, I do have, but please understand I'm not trying to give you a bad time.
> 
> Have you given any thought to testing? Stannous chloride, DMG and various other testing procedures to help you identify what you really have? It's all in Hoke's book, as are the instructions for making the test solutions. Until you know and understand these procedures, you're going to have an endless supply of things that mystify you.
> 
> You shouldn't be too interested in what others think. They may be wrong. That's why you should read more, and learn to do your own testing. I found it to be the best possible solution when I had unknown substances in solution.
> 
> Tan solution? No solids? Have you tested for palladium?
> 
> When you have traces of palladium mixed in silver (in solution), it's not uncommon for the solution to have a green color, which will shft towards brown as the percentage of palladium increases.
> 
> Test. That's conclusive. Much better than guessing.
> 
> Harold
Click to expand...


Hello Harold,
Not too hard on me at all 

Your quite right about testing.
Im waiting on stannous crystals in the post, I did not think about palladium even being possible in this solution :shock: but the only way to find out is test.

The tan liquids only showed up with boiling water washes.. 
Until I get my stannous chloride I'll take a test tube, heat that to 100 C and see what that does.

Thank you and best regards,

Dave


----------



## Palladium

The tan solution is your zinc in a base solution (KOH), or at least the majority with a couple of things included. The HOT water wash is an essential step if your going to run these type batteries. Temperature as well as KOH concentration plays a part also. This step will save you acid in so many ways! Once the wash step is done your acid consumption is insanely low! Removing those steel cases is the real trick to processing these batteries i have found. The rest is easy!


----------



## jungle_Dave

Palladium said:


> The tan solution is your zinc in a base solution (KOH), or at least the majority with a couple of things included. The HOT water wash is an essential step if your going to run these type batteries. Temperature as well as KOH concentration plays a part also. This step will save you acid in so many ways! Once the wash step is done your acid consumption is insanely low! Removing those steel cases is the real trick to processing these batteries i have found. The rest is easy!




Hi Palladium!
I got the alkaline leach idea from you 8) 
In retrospect I over did it a bit with the nitric acid but better safe then sorry on my first run.
These steel caps are and remain the bottle neck in this process, I'm getting a vice to speed things up for my next run, lets see how that goes. 

Next step, identify and separate the base metals then neutralize the solutions. By the way, CP metallic zinc is really expensive here, as I get fixers too that will be a big bonus !

Thanks again,

Dave


----------



## Harold_V

jungle_Dave said:


> The tan liquids only showed up with boiling water washes..


I'm not too proud to say that that's an experience I had frequently, and never did manage to solve. I had no idea then, nor do I now, what the source of that brown solution was, but just like in your case, it developed when doing water washes, and was barely perceptible with HCl washes. In my case, there was no chance it was related to a base, as I didn't process that way.

In my case, it was from bench filings from certain customers. They consistently yielded the brown solution, while it was never a problem processing waste materials from others. This material carried through the refining process and was some what troublesome when the gold was melted, as energized particles would fly from the melting powder, sparkling as they went. 

I exhausted my limited testing ability in an attempt to identify the material. I was never successful. That's the price one pays when they're not educated as a chemist. 

Because it appeared to be lost in melting, I melted all such recovered gold, which was then used as my added gold when evaporating. That way it was refined a third time, assuring it was totally removed. It was NEVER found in a second refining, so the process appears to have worked adequately. 

Harold


----------



## g_axelsson

A tan solution and something going through filters after the gold is precipitated... I would suspect tin and just the right chemical environment. If there is too strong nitric in the AR then the tin chloride would have turned into metastannic acid.
When we use too much SMB (or SO2) we get a brown response on stannous testing.

I don't know how to test it without expensive analytical equipment though. A hint would come from letting the solution dry up on a surface and then use an XRF on it.

Göran


----------



## Harold_V

Göran,
It should be noted that, in my case, this substance was not a solid. Filtering, for example, didn't offer any degree of separation. It also had no role in how a solution filtered, unlike metastannic acid. I question if it would be related to tin, but at the moment it probably makes as much sense as anything one might propose! :lol: 

Harold


----------



## saadat68

Hi
I am new and have some questions

All of button cells that labeled *AG or LR* *are not* silver oxide. right?

What is the price for buying 1 kilo batteries ? (50 percent silver oxide and 50 percent others)

Thanks


----------



## butcher

https://www.google.com/?trackid=sp-006#q=button+cell+battery+labeled+AG+or+LR+


----------



## saadat68

butcher said:


> https://www.google.com/?trackid=sp-006#q=button+cell+battery+labeled+AG+or+LR+



I need Yes or No
can't find answers from google


----------



## FrugalRefiner

saadat, when someone takes the time to respond to your question with a link, you could at least take 10 seconds to follow the link. I did, and in the very first search result, it says in the preview: "AG batteries (often called BUTTON batteries) are non-rechargeable cells, in either Silver Oxide or Alkaline chemistry." The next time someone makes an effort to help you, you should make an effort too.

Dave


----------



## saadat68

FrugalRefiner said:


> saadat, when someone takes the time to respond to your question with a link, you could at least take 10 seconds to follow the link. I did, and in the very first search result, it says in the preview: "AG batteries (often called BUTTON batteries) are non-rechargeable cells, in either Silver Oxide or Alkaline chemistry." The next time someone makes an effort to help you, you should make an effort too.
> 
> Dave



Dave I checked that link but I can not find my answer.
I think it is misunderstanding because my english is not good. 
But really I need yes or no!!!

because I don't understand. I need a person say me AG/LR batries may have a silver or no ? for example ag1 or ag2 or LR66 or ...? they are silver or MnO2 ? I can not find answer in google

Thanks


----------



## jimdoc

Did you look at the first post of this thread?

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3212&hilit=silver+batteries#p27240


----------



## saadat68

jimdoc said:


> Did you look at the first post of this thread?
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3212&hilit=silver+batteries#p27240




Hi yes I read that document
I want to know LR and AG are not silver? all of them ? 
See this link: 
https://www.afundeal.com/ssuo-ag4-lr626-377a-alkaline-cell-1-55v-alkaline-button-cell-battery-10-batteries-silver

It is AG and it is silver!!! and also 1.55 v 
I think all Of Ag are Mno2


----------



## butcher

AG, or LR designation has nothing to do with silver in a battery.

Simple Answer is
NO


----------



## saadat68

butcher said:


> AG, or LR designation has nothing to do with silver in a battery.
> 
> Simple Answer is
> NO



So they are MnO2 ? 
Thanks :wink:


----------



## g_axelsson

I googled and the first link I got was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_cell

Göran


----------



## saadat68

> http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=5107



Look at this image. Some of the cells are golden. is there any gold in them ??? :shock: 



I find such as them in my cells too.


----------



## butcher

Probably not gold, maybe brass, try a drop of nitric acid and see. I cannot see them wasting gold unless these are used in some kind of critical equipment like maybe medical, or life safety, military, space, or some other similar devices... even then it is doubtful they are plated in gold, but we have seen stranger things and today they can plate the gold so thin you can see through it.


----------



## saadat68

butcher said:


> Probably not gold, maybe brass, try a drop of nitric acid and see. I cannot see them wasting gold unless these are used in some kind of critical equipment like maybe medical, or life safety, military, space, or some other similar devices... even then it is doubtful they are plated in gold, but we have seen stranger things and today they can plate the gold so thin you can see through it.


Why I must first separate silver oxide cells ? Can I crush all of cells ( MnO2 + Silvers and Littium cells ) with a crusher and leach them in acid :?:


----------



## Topher_osAUrus

saadat68 said:


> butcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Probably not gold, maybe brass, try a drop of nitric acid and see. I cannot see them wasting gold unless these are used in some kind of critical equipment like maybe medical, or life safety, military, space, or some other similar devices... even then it is doubtful they are plated in gold, but we have seen stranger things and today they can plate the gold so thin you can see through it.
> 
> 
> 
> Why I must first separate silver oxide cells ? Can I crush all of cells ( MnO2 + Silvers and Littium cells ) with a crusher and leach them in acid :?:
Click to expand...


If you do that, you will face countless issue's.. Go with the tried and true method.. Separate first!


----------



## saadat68

Topher_osAUrus said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> butcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Probably not gold, maybe brass, try a drop of nitric acid and see. I cannot see them wasting gold unless these are used in some kind of critical equipment like maybe medical, or life safety, military, space, or some other similar devices... even then it is doubtful they are plated in gold, but we have seen stranger things and today they can plate the gold so thin you can see through it.
> 
> 
> 
> Why I must first separate silver oxide cells ? Can I crush all of cells ( MnO2 + Silvers and Littium cells ) with a crusher and leach them in acid :?:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do that, you will face countless issue's.. Go with the tried and true method.. Separate first!
Click to expand...

can you say what issue for example ?


----------



## Topher_osAUrus

excessive use of acid
other metals going into solution first
and more I'm sure others can add


----------



## saadat68

Topher_osAUrus said:


> excessive use of acid
> other metals going into solution first
> and more I'm sure others can add



more acid is not really a problem if we can crush many cells in a faster process

I think just MnO2 and LiO are excess materials in this way. I want to find a fast way to refining many cells for example 2 ton in a year 8)


----------



## Topher_osAUrus

saadat68 said:


> Topher_osAUrus said:
> 
> 
> 
> excessive use of acid
> other metals going into solution first
> and more I'm sure others can add
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more acid is not really a problem if we can crush many cells in a faster process
> 
> I think just MnO2 and LiO are excess materials in this way. I want to find a fast way to refining many cells for example 2 ton in a year 8)
Click to expand...


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery
Go to the "chemistry" section of that wiki, and look at the numerous types of lithium cells, lots of different materials in them that all could give you alot of headaches. But, this is just my opinion..


----------



## FrugalRefiner

saadat68 said:


> Why I must first separate silver oxide cells ? Can I crush all of cells ( MnO2 + Silvers and Littium cells ) with a crusher and leach them in acid :?:


saadat, you really have to start doing some of your own research.

From a P&G Product Safety Data Sheet at PG.com:


> CAUTION: Battery can explode or leak if heated, disassembled, shorted, recharged, exposed to fire or high temperature or inserted incorrectly. Keep in original package until ready to use. Do not carry batteries loose in your pocket or purse. Keep batteries away from children. If swallowed, consult a physician at once. Under certain misuse conditions and by abusively opening the battery, exposed lithium can react with water or moisture in the air causing potential thermal burns or fire.


You can find these answers easily with a Google search.

Dave


----------



## anachronism

Having seen a completely self sustaining fire from a skid full of these at a recycling centre first hand, (where the firefighters refused to listen to the site owner and hosed them down causing a major blaze) then personally I wouldn't go anywhere near them. There are much easier things to recover PMs from.


----------



## saadat68

FrugalRefiner said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why I must first separate silver oxide cells ? Can I crush all of cells ( MnO2 + Silvers and Littium cells ) with a crusher and leach them in acid :?:
> 
> 
> 
> saadat, you really have to start doing some of your own research.
> 
> From a P&G Product Safety Data Sheet at PG.com:
> 
> 
> 
> CAUTION: Battery can explode or leak if heated, disassembled, shorted, recharged, exposed to fire or high temperature or inserted incorrectly. Keep in original package until ready to use. Do not carry batteries loose in your pocket or purse. Keep batteries away from children. If swallowed, consult a physician at once. Under certain misuse conditions and by abusively opening the battery, exposed lithium can react with water or moisture in the air causing potential thermal burns or fire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can find these answers easily with a Google search.
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Man I know google and use it. your posts are not my answers!
I said first crush cells with a crusher and then leach. you say assemble them manually ??? they don't explode this way?!


----------



## FrugalRefiner

saadat68 said:


> Man I know google and use it. your posts are not my answers!


Then I won't waste any more of your time by trying to answer them. 

Best of luck to you,
Dave


----------



## saadat68

FrugalRefiner said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man I know google and use it. your posts are not my answers!
> 
> 
> 
> Then I won't waste any more of your time by trying to answer them.
> 
> Best of luck to you,
> Dave
Click to expand...


Dave thanks for your answers but your answers that find in google are unrelated to my question
I ask can I crush and leach whole of cells and you say assembling cells may explode


----------



## Barren Realms 007

saadat68 said:


> Man I know google and use it. your posts are not my answers!
> I said first crush cells with a crusher and then leach. you say assemble them manually ??? they don't explode this way?!



I understand the language barrier we have here. Let's correct some of the terminology or wording that you should be using.

Crush means to squeeze or push together. I think the correct wording you should be using it to tear apart or disassemble. 

To do 2 tons a year that is about 85 lbs. a week of batteries that you will be processing if you process the same amount each week. With the safety concerns of dealing with the batteries that do not have silver in them it would be well worth your time to do a manual separation from the batteries that do have silver in them.

The extra costs of the chemicals to process the bad batteries would justify the time it takes to do the separation of the two groups. 

The health, fire and safety reasons alone would justify the time it takes to separate the groups.

There is a list of batteries that has been posted on the forum that shows the different one that have silver and the ones that do not have silver in them. I think it was posted about 3 or 4 years ago.

There have also been some posts made about the different marking that show the ones that have silver and the ones that do not have silver and if I remember correctly pictures of the different markings were posted on the forum also.

To process the quantities that you are talking about processing you would want to consider a hammer mill to run the separated batteries through to disassemble them for processing.

Please try to be a little more careful in your wording when you reply to the forum members that try to give you answers your reply did not came across very nicely.


----------



## Topher_osAUrus

saadat68 said:


> Man I know google and use it. your posts are not my answers!
> I said first crush cells with a crusher and then leach. you say assemble them manually ??? they don't explode this way?!



Rude...

In a crusher they could short and explode.

Disassembling manually is really the best way. But, if you pioneer the way to do bulk lots on a hobby level. You will be set.


----------



## saadat68

OK
Understood
Thank You

It is very bad. I can recovery maximum 1000KG in year this way


----------



## anachronism

Saadat you've got guys on this forum who do this for a living already. I'm one of them. Please trust me when I say that there really are much better things to spend your time on than these batteries if you are looking to recover precious metals. 

You have to factor in your own time, and for material like this it's not time well spent when you can pick up better material without really having to try. 

I mean this well and please take the genuine advice in the spirit it is intended.


----------



## saadat68

anachronism said:


> Saadat you've got guys on this forum who do this for a living already. I'm one of them. Please trust me when I say that there really are much better things to spend your time on than these batteries if you are looking to recover precious metals.
> 
> You have to factor in your own time, and for material like this it's not time well spent when you can pick up better material without really having to try.
> 
> I mean this well and please take the genuine advice in the spirit it is intended.


I can buy cells easier than others like escrap in my country


----------



## anachronism

Sure, I know you can because it's what nobody wants and it's also hazardous waste.


----------



## FrugalRefiner

Thanks Barren. I'm afraid I confused saadat with another member, and failed to notice the language barrier was because he was from Iran.

Saadat, you asked if you could crush all the batteries together instead of sorting them. As Barren has said, crush mean squeezing, or pushing, or pressing them together. If you hit a battery with a hammer, or squeeze it with pliers, you would crush it. This would be dangerous, as lithium batteries might burst into flames or explode, and at the least would expose you to hazardous fumes.

I did not say you should assemble (to put together), or disassemble (to take apart) them manually. You should sort them manually. That means you should separate them into different piles; all the lithium batteries in one pile, all the silver batteries, in another, etc. If you disassemble lithium batteries, yes, they can explode. That's why you need to sort them, and only crush the silver oxide type.

I'm not sure I understand the quantity you have available. In one post, you mentioned 2 tons per year. In a more recent one, you said you could recover 1,000 kg per year. Either way, that's potentially a lot of silver. It will take a lot of work and a lot of chemicals, and it will produce a lot of waste, but it's a lot of silver. 

Dave


----------



## saadat68

OK thanks Dave 
So you say I must sort silver oxide from lithium cells and then crush with a hammer mill? 
How about MnO2 cells ? Any safety risk? (crush Mno2 cells with silver oxide cells)

I can buy 2 ton cells if find a fast way for recovery silver. I want trip to 3 or 4 city and buy cells 8)


----------



## Barren Realms 007

saadat68 said:


> OK thanks Dave
> So you say I must sort silver oxide from lithium cells and then crush with a hammer mill?
> How about MnO2 cells ? Any safety risk? (crush Mno2 cells with silver oxide cells)
> 
> I can buy 2 ton cells if find a fast way for recovery silver. I want trip to 3 or 4 city and buy cells 8)



Please refer to the items as batteries not as cells. When you call them cells it confuses people from other areas of the world that read the forum because they are called batteries and not called cells.


----------



## FrugalRefiner

saadat68 said:


> OK thanks Dave
> So you say I must sort silver oxide from lithium cells and then crush with a hammer mill?


I said you need to sort them. I've never processed batteries, so I can't say whether crushing them in a hammer mill is a good idea or not.



> How about MnO2 cells ? Any safety risk? (crush Mno2 cells with silver oxide cells)


I don't know. As I said, I don't process batteries. I'm afraid you'll just have to do some studying on your own.



> I can buy 2 ton cells if find a fast way for recovery silver. I want trip to 3 or 4 city and buy cells 8)


One of the best pieces of advice Hoke gives is to start small. You don't know how to process these batteries, but you're talking about processing 2 tons per year. I suggest starting with 1 kg. Time how long it takes to sort them. Measure the chemicals you use. Figure out what it will cost to treat the waste. If it seems profitable, try 10 kg. If that works, try 100 kg. Some processes can be scaled up. Some can't. Only you can decide if it works for you.

Dave


----------



## saadat68

Barren Realms 007 said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK thanks Dave
> So you say I must sort silver oxide from lithium cells and then crush with a hammer mill?
> How about MnO2 cells ? Any safety risk? (crush Mno2 cells with silver oxide cells)
> 
> I can buy 2 ton cells if find a fast way for recovery silver. I want trip to 3 or 4 city and buy cells 8)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please refer to the items as batteries not as cells. When you call them cells it confuses people from other areas of the world that read the forum because they are called batteries and not called cells.
Click to expand...

Sorry I mean button cells 
I think it is better sort all of them and just dissemble silver oxide with a pillar. there is no fast way 
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/alkzincairnomercury_psds.pdf


----------



## saadat68

FrugalRefiner said:


> saadat68 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK thanks Dave
> So you say I must sort silver oxide from lithium cells and then crush with a hammer mill?
> 
> 
> 
> I said you need to sort them. I've never processed batteries, so I can't say whether crushing them in a hammer mill is a good idea or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about MnO2 cells ? Any safety risk? (crush Mno2 cells with silver oxide cells)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. As I said, I don't process batteries. I'm afraid you'll just have to do some studying on your own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can buy 2 ton cells if find a fast way for recovery silver. I want trip to 3 or 4 city and buy cells 8)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of the best pieces of advice Hoke gives is to start small. You don't know how to process these batteries, but you're talking about processing 2 tons per year. I suggest starting with 1 kg. Time how long it takes to sort them. Measure the chemicals you use. Figure out what it will cost to treat the waste. If it seems profitable, try 10 kg. If that works, try 100 kg. Some processes can be scaled up. Some can't. Only you can decide if it works for you.
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

OK
Thanks


----------



## saadat68

Many impurities are in my solution like ZnO , MnO2 and some Nickel and copper and ...
Can I get silver purity above 95% with cement and then melting with borax ? or need a silver cell?

Can I sell a 95% silver to shops ?

*Edit : Got my answers here*
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24302&p=257407#p257405


----------



## Barren Realms 007

saadat68 said:


> Many impurities are in my solution like ZnO , MnO2 and some Nickel and copper and ...
> Can I get silver purity above 95% with cement and then melting with borax ? or need a silver cell?
> 
> Can I sell a 95% silver to shops ?
> 
> *Edit : Got my answers here*
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24302&p=257407#p257405



You are trying to process something that you don't even know if you have a buyer for it. You need to find a buyer and see what they will pay before you start processing this material. Since you are in another country there is no way we can inform you if there would be a buyer of your finished material and what their requirements would be,


----------



## saadat68

How much pure silver do you get from silver oxide batteries ?
Any new feedback ?


----------



## patnor1011

saadat68 said:


> How much pure silver do you get from silver oxide batteries ?
> Any new feedback ?



Your answer is right in this thread. It is roughly 1/3 of the weight.


----------



## saadat68

anachronism said:


> Saadat you've got guys on this forum who do this for a living already. I'm one of them. Please trust me when I say that there really are much better things to spend your time on than these batteries if you are looking to recover precious metals.
> 
> You have to factor in your own time, and for material like this it's not time well spent when you can pick up better material without really having to try.
> 
> I mean this well and please take the genuine advice in the spirit it is intended.


I must listened to your advice 
I was very unskillful


----------



## saadat68

I don't want to distill mercury and work with mercury fumes in my small workshop so I decide switch to wet method that Juan explained in first post. 
*I think we must review it because we talk about mercury. I think this process has two problem*

This is process for removing mercury:


> The liquid of the container is a mixture of nitrates(AgNO3,ZnNO3 and HgNO3) but we
> have got to recover the mercury first .Add common salt to the liquid and you will get a white precipitate of white clumps
> of AgCl and HgCl,stirr well,let settle down,wash with tap water,let settle down again and
> pour off the washes.
> To the white precipitate add NH4OH until all the white clumps dissolve,you will see at the
> bottom there is a black precipitate of Hg(NH2)Cl,filter the liquid,wash the filter and keep
> the black powder of Hg(NH2)Cl in a secure and hermetic container to recover the Hg.
> To the filtrated liquid add HCl to reprecipitate the AgCl forming the white clumps
> again,now free of mercury


Problem 1:
When we add Hcl to silver nitrate solution we get probebly a mix of HgCl2 and Hg2Cl2 with silver chloride 
HgNO3 + 2 HCl → HgCl2 + H2O + NO2


Code:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury(II)_chloride

HgCl2 is soluble in water so in washing step we remove some Hg with water. This water has mercury contamination :shock: 

Problem 2:
The black residue after adding ammonium hydroxide and washing step is a mix of Hg and Mercuric amidochloride
This is the reaction:
Hg2Cl2 + 2NH3 → Hg + HgNH2Cl + NH4Cl



Code:


https://books.google.com/books?id=Vr0aCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA296&lpg=PA296&dq=hgnh2cl+solubility&source=bl&ots=mvKL4AcDSi&sig=KyQx3BFamas6_3zorZOwXiXPUrQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjt66vl8tvXAhVH6KQKHZUCD744ChDoAQgjMAA#v=onepage&q=hgnh2cl%20solubility&f=false


Mercuric amidochloride is slightly soluble in cold water and decompose in hot water.


> SOLUBILITY IN COLD WATER: 0.14 G/100 CC; SOLUBILITY IN HOT WATER: 100 G/100 CC (DECOMPOSES)
> Weast, R.C. (ed.) Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 68th ed. Boca Raton, Florida: CRC Press Inc., 1987-1988., p. B-108


Ammonium hydroxide has water so some HgNH2Cl will dissolve in water and goes to next step. (participating with silver chloride, converting to metal and melting!)



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I starting to think distillation is a safer and better method to remove mercury from silver now!!!
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Thank you


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## saadat68

What is best way to wash batteries for removing potassium hydroxide? 
This is my process:
Wash with hot water
Let to settle 
Decant after one day

But even after 2 days I had very small particles in water. If I want to filter it takes one week for one liter of water!!!

Is there any silver in this water ? It is bright gray from decant step


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