# Members stealing content, claiming as their own work



## patnor1011

I decided to put up this thread as I want to explain what happened. You all know about my work with processing IC I even noticed some people started to call it Patnor`s method. 
Well everything from start to finish is here : http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=11827

I mentioned several times and in several other places here that this idea was brought to my mind simply by being here and observing what other people did. Like Deano our McGyver who started pyrolysing boards and my endless discussions with several other members. Well I put together guide and reported to all people here what I did and offered everything for members in good faith that I have to give back something to people who taught me most of what I know in this field.

I just learned (I know I am not the first and not the last) that one member is here not to learn but just to steal whatever we discuss about, simply interested in making money of our hard work. How do I know this? He is not active member, number of his posts is 0 yet he sell number of guides on how to refine gold.
His name is* Testywolfe*. 
Ebay link: http://myworld.ebay.ie/testywolfe
Forum link: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=26632

It is interesting to read description of his auctions. Typical ebay vulture.
He is even using my own pictures on his ebay auction where he sells "his copywrighted" guide.


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## glondor

What can we do to help Pat ?


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## Palladium

http://ocs.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReportItemMember&items=140788903578&state=1&&active=1&seller=testywolfe&guest=1


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## patnor1011

I just got "his" handbook from one of his buyers. It is my writing word after word, he added few things, like claiming that this is what his father taught him 30 years ago :lol: and copyright notice telling you he will lawsuit you if you try to steal his intellectual property. All my pictures too. 
Funniest thing is that he even used my yield numbers and then distorted picture of my button claiming that that is second button he got from another double sized batch. :roll: 

Now serious question. My guide was put up on ebay to get some extra funds I can then send as donation to forum or if somebody will collect for some person in distress or need as I did (you can confirm this Ralph) so this Testywolfe feller just rob us all of this opportunity. Tell me, should I put it back in here (as it was up until today before I start seeing red and deleted it) along with his bastardized - stolen version of my work, or should I keep it for myself only?


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## patnor1011

Palladium said:


> http://ocs.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReportItemMember&items=140788903578&state=1&&active=1&seller=testywolfe&guest=1



I did that but I do not have any big hope of ebay to react or so something decisive we all know what ebay is here for. Fees, fees, fees...
Keep it in scribd. We will make public knowledge from this method, I will make sure that thief is not going to earn much more from my hard work.


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## lazersteve

Vultures are all over the internet. They will steal any and everything they can so they don't have to work for their pay.

Not much you can do unless you want to pay an attorney to hunt him down and spend some serious money getting him to court.

You have exposed him here, that is what's important. I looked through some of his other ebay 'auctions', he claims to have a 'secret' solution to stripping gold from plated scrap... it's a bottle of Ferric Chloride from Radio Shack. 

Do you know what email the booklet was delivered from?

Steve


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## glondor

Is it odd that he purports to be in Winchester Virginia USA but the Ebay site is Ireland?


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## jimdoc

glondor said:


> Is it odd that he purports to be in Winchester Virginia USA but the Ebay site is Ireland?




I thought that also, but I think that is because of Patnor's link, and his being in Ireland.

I think the guy should get banned from here for good.

Jim


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## glondor

I agree. His ad says "his" guide on silver is coming out in a few days. I am sure we will find a lot of material in it from this site. Heads up. I recently found a whole lot of work by a member here being flogged on a site without the members knowledge. After a few PM's i think they took care of it. Be vigilant.


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## patnor1011

I got booklet from another ebay member. Right after I bought it from him. He got my money and he will get my feedback that is for sure, but I still do not have "his" method, his father taught him 30 years ago. I will wait. Then it will get my money back.


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## Palladium

Maybe someone needs to give him a call. :mrgreen: 

Wolfe's Relics & Trinkets
238 cather lane
Winchester, Virginia 22602
Phone: 540-877-9795


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## joem

He bought my guide and I gave him positive feed back because the transaction was correct. I did not know ( nor can I really prove anything).
My guide is registered and ebay will have to respond in an issue. It's also made difficult to copy my guide since it's a paper version only and since our names ( Steve and mine) and web sites are in all photos and scattered accross all pages it makes it harder ( not impossible) for anyone to sell as Their own. Patnor you should add watermarks to your guide on each page and every photo.
edit: for clarity


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## kurt

I agree – this guy should be banned - & told way he is being banned - & furthermore he should be informed that his claims of holding & selling copyrighted information on the process of recovery & refining of PMs is fraudulent & that he may well find him self in a law suite if he does not remove his claim to legal copyright ownership of material he has copied from this forum

In order for a copyright (&/or patent &/or trademark) to hold up in court the owner of the copyright (patent or trademark) has to be able to PROVE “original creation” --- another words they have to prove that their idea &/or work “originated” with them – that they were the “first” to come up with the idea, invent the thing &/or “publish” it as their own “intellectual” work 

It has “nothing” to do with being the first to file for the copyright (patent or trademark) – rather it has “everything” to do with being able to “prove” the copyright (patent or trademark) originated with you --- & therefore if it can be “proven” that it was not your “original creation” your copyright (patent or trademark) holds no legal footing (or standing)

Therefore anything that has been posted on this forum CAN NOT be “later” copied by someone else & then be copyrighted (patented or trademarked) by them & still retain any legal standing against someone else distributing said idea, work or invention.

Why? --- because every post posted here on the form has a date & time stamp on it & therefore it can be “proven” that any “later” claim to copyright (patent or trademark) is in fact NOT the “original creation” of the person making the claim to holding the copyright (patent or trademark) but that “in fact” (1) the idea, work or invention originated with someone else & (2) this idea, work or invention has already been made “public knowledge” (due to “fact” that this forum is open to public – same as posting something in the paper or other “public” media)

The “fact” is that when someone that takes information that has “already been made public” & files a copyright (patent or trademark) on that work for the purpose of “their own sole profit” is committing “fraud” (& they can be prosecuted for such) because they are making claim to an idea, work or invention as their “original creation” when in fact it is not.

So – in my opinion – the first thing that should happen here is that this guy should be informed that what he is doing is “stealing” “public information” claiming it as his own – which is fraud - & that therefore he “needs” to remove his claim to copyright from his ebay ads (or he could find himself losing everything he is trying to do for his kids in a law suit he can not afford) & then he should be banned 

That’s just my opinion – I will leave it to the moderators to decide (the “threat” of legal action is usually enough) or (send him this post in a PM if need be)

Its one thing to just sell information as information – it’s a whole other thing to sell it as your own with a legal right to be the only one able to sell it when in fact that is not true

Sorry for the long post but guys like this really tick me off

Kurt


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## kurt

patnor1011 said:


> I just got "his" handbook from one of his buyers. It is my writing word after word, he added few things, like claiming that this is what his father taught him 30 years ago :lol: and copyright notice telling you he will lawsuit you if you try to steal his intellectual property. All my pictures too.
> Funniest thing is that he even used my yield numbers and then distorted picture of my button claiming that that is second button he got from another double sized batch. :roll:
> 
> Now serious question. My guide was put up on ebay to get some extra funds I can then send as donation to forum or if somebody will collect for some person in distress or need as I did (you can confirm this Ralph) so this Testywolfe feller just rob us all of this opportunity. Tell me, should I put it back in here (as it was up until today before I start seeing red and deleted it) along with his bastardized - stolen version of my work, or should I keep it for myself only?



Patnor - you should have "no fear" in putting "your guide" back on ebay for sale - this guy has "no legal footing" to stand on - in fact - because of the date & time stamp on "your original" posting of this to the forum - you can "prove" that it was your original work - not his - & that you made it a matter of "public knowledge" & that he in fact "stole" it from here on the forum & is now trying to claim it as an "original creation" of his own & you could therefore counter sue him for fraud.

The only way (excepted by the courts) for him to "prove" the idea was his fathers from 30 years ago would be if he &/or his father had wrote down the process on paper put it in a "sealed" envelope - mailed it to them self - left the envelope sealed to be opened only in court - in order to prove it was their original idea by the post office time stamp of the "sealed" envelope

In fact - that is a way of protecting original creation &/or intellectual property without actually getting a copyright, patent or tradmark on it. Put it on paper - put it in a sealed envelope - mail it to your self - leave it sealed till needed in court --- the post office time stamp proves it as your work before any copyright, patent or trademark filed at a later date.

Kurt


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## Palladium

He's been here this morning and has no doubt read this thread. I also know he has read others because some of the actions and the traffic he has taken this morning. He apparently has other screen names as well as trying to mask his isp. He lurks in the shadows and it would be nice of him to come out and clear this up. Introduce yourself Mr Wolf please!


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## glondor

Hi Pat. In m y attempt to assist you i may have caused you more trouble. I am truly sorry if i did. I sent the guy in Va a question.........Why are you stealing other peoples work and passing it off as your own?


This is the reply I got.


1ST OF ALL YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WHATS GOING ON SO YOU HAVE NO REASON TO OPEN YOUR MOUTH!!!!

YOU DONT KNOW THIEVEING PATRICK LIKE I DO THIS GOES BACK YEARS AND YEARS BETWEEN US YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED AT HOW MANY PEOPLES HARD WORK PARICK HAS TRYED TO CLAIM AS HIS OWN!

THE OLD OLD SCAM FRIEND PATNOR101 NAME PATRICK HE WAS TRYING PUT OFF MY WORK AS HIS OWN HE EVEN HAD IT LISTED ON EBAY!

SOONS HE FOUND OUT THAT I ADDED MORE PAGES FROM LAST HE SEEN MY METHOD HE TRYED TO SNEAK UNDER MY RADAR AND BUY A NEW COPY THIS MORNING SO HE COULD HAVE ALL NEW WORK ALSO!

WELL I CAUGHT IT PAYPL REFUNED HIM AND EBAY BLOCKED ANY FUTHER CONTACT FROM HIM!

HE EVEN TRYED SEND A BOGUS INVOICE ASKING FOR MONEY PAYPAL BLOCKED IT!

THATS WHY IF YOU LOOK NOW HIS LISTING IS GONE EBAY TOOK IT DOWN BECAUSE I HOLD TRUE COPYRIGHT ON GUIDE EBAY ASKED ME TO FAX ALL LEGAL PAPERWORK TO THEM PROVING I HOLD COPYRIGHT SO I DID AND THER FAST SOONS THEY SEEN IM TELLING TRUTH AND HE IS A LIAR, A FAKE, A SCAMMER THEY SHUT HIM DOWN!

EBAY & PAYPAL ARESUPER FAST WHEN YOU HAVE LEGAL PAPERWORK TO PROVE YOU ARE RIGHT SO IVE PROVED IM RIGHT IM THE TRUE LEGAL OWNER OF MY MATERIAL!

NOW SOMEONE TOLD ME PATRICK HAS IT UP ON A WEBSITE FOR THE WORLD TO SEE THIS WEBSITE WILL HAVE TO LEGALY REMOVE IT ONCE MY LAWYER CONTACTS THEM WITH MY LEGAL DOCUMENTS THEY WILL HAVE TO OBEY LAWS AS WELL IF NOT MY LAWYER CAN MAKE THEM PER FEDERAL CODE!

THATS WHY EBAY TOOK HIS DOWN IVE SENT EBAY THE COPYRIGHT DOCUMENTS TO PROVE ITS MINE SO THEY TOOK HIS LISTING DOWN SOONS THEY GOT THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS THIS MORNING THEY ARE FAST WHEN YOU HAVE LEGAL DUCUMENTS TO PROVE YOUR CASE YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE THE USERS THAT HAVE TRYED TO SELL MY DOCUMENTS AFTER THEY GOT BOUGHT!

THANK GOD FOR LEGAL DOCUMENTS AND FAX MACHINES LOL!

IVE PROVED MY CASE EBAY ONLY REMOVES LISTINGS WHEN YOU HAVE LEGAL 
DOCUMENTS TO BACK YOU UP!!
Sodium Metabisulfite


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## jimdoc

What about Patnor's pictures being used?
Is he saying those were his pictures?

Jim


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## MMFJ

I say, who's got the button (in question, from the pictures) now? That seems like a pretty simple one, if it hasn't already been sold or melted into something else.

"Possession is 9/10 of the law" seems like a winner on this one.

(end of $.02 deposit...)


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## Palladium

That would explain a lot to me. He's been all over this site and he has been cruising my ebay listings also. He's also been in my scribd data base trying to download, but that's shut down now. Let me see if i can find something to occupy his time for him.


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## Palladium

It seems our friend has moved just across the state line. And the hunt continues. Patnor, i'm sure paypal sent you his billing info. Could you forward that to me in a pm?

IP address: 184.19.104.233 (ARIN/RIPE) (Tag)
Locale:	[Martinsburg, WV, USA] Martinsburg, WV, USA
Organization:	Frontier Communications / frontiernet.net 
Platform:	Firefox 14.0 / Windows 7


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## patnor1011

More development lately. :mrgreen: 
I am on phone with ebay as I type this. First he contacted ebay and reported my book there but not as copyright violation but as listing violation - imagine this. Digitally transferred items have to be listed as classified ads in special cathegory so ebay just made me aware of this and my listing is up and running back again in appropriate cathegory. He did himself favor as all his book listings will be removed as he is violating the same ebay policy as he reported me for. 

Ebay acknowledged that I am owner of that information and book as are they checking my original pictures in high resolution - I am so far the only person who have them in possesion. I am going to provide them various pictures of all items used in my handbook, areas where pictures were taken. More importantly I still do have that button at hand so again I can provide more pictures he cant. 

From his reply to Glondor you can see that he is a dishonest person I only feel sorry for him.

I have send him invoice through paypal for 50% of earnings from sale of stolen handbook :mrgreen: 
He cancelled my purchase of "his" guide and here is what his reply was:

Wolfe's Relics & Trinkets ([email protected]) has issued a full refund for your payment. 

Message from merchant: NOT SELLING TO YOU WHEN YOUR TRYING RUN A SCAM ON A COPYRIGHT I OWN AND HAVE PROVED TO EBAY EBAY HAS ALL MY LEGAL DOCUMENTSON ALL MY METHODS AS WELL AS THE OTHER 12 METHODS LAYING IN THE COPYRIGHT OFFICE NOW TO BE RELEASED SOON 

----------------------------------------------------------------
Original payment details:
----------------------------------------------------------------

Date payment sent: 04-Aug-2012
Amount: $3.30 USD

**********************************************************************************************
His email to me:

Hello patnor101,

testywolfe recently opened a case to cancel a transaction for an item you recently purchased: Recover gold from Integrated Circuit Chips easy & fastest way scap gold recovery.

Reason for request to cancel the transaction: The seller did not provide a specific reason.

Seller comment: NOT SELLING TO YOU WHEN YOUR TRYING RUN A SCAM ON A COPYRIGHT I OWN AND HAVE PROVED TO EBAY EBAY HAS ALL MY LEGAL DOCUMENTSON ALL MY METHODS AS WELL AS THE OTHER 12 METHODS LAYING IN THE COPYRIGHT OFFICE NOW TO BE RELEASED SOON YOUR REFUND HAS BEEN SENT AND EBAY HAS BEEN NOTIFIED YOU ARE ON MY BLOCK LIST YOU AND YOUR BUDDY SENT ME A EMAIL AND A PAYPAL INVOICE SAYING PAY YOU MONEY OR ELSE YOU ARE TRYING RUN A SCAM ON ME AND ITS NOT HAPPENENING I OWN MY WORK, MY COPYRIGHTS, AND PATENDS

Click the 'Respond now' button to accept or decline this cancellation.

If you don't take action by 12-Aug-2012, the seller will be able to cancel the purchase without your consent.

You can view this case at any time in the Resolution Centre.

***************************************************************************************

I am in a process of creating some comparison pictures of "his" guide on one side and my one on other side for members to see that he basically copy and paste everything from guide I put up on forum here and claiming it is what his father taught him 31 years ago.

Once again I am not aware I fathered child in USA and I certainly could not teach that kid how to do things 31 years ago as I was 6 years old that time. :twisted: 

I do not know that individual and all I know is that he is a liar. I do not care about fancy sentences about copyright infringement he put up on that stolen copy I can prove in a second that I created that guide and every single one picture there. I am only sorry I am not USA resident as I would not hesitate to take him in court.


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## patnor1011

Palladium said:


> It seems our friend has moved just across the state line. And the hunt continues. Patnor, i'm sure paypal sent you his billing info. Could you forward that to me in a pm?
> 
> IP address: 184.19.104.233 (ARIN/RIPE) (Tag)
> Locale:	[Martinsburg, WV, USA] Martinsburg, WV, USA
> Organization:	Frontier Communications / frontiernet.net
> Platform:	Firefox 14.0 / Windows 7



Nope. In order to have his billing info he would have to buy something from me.
All I got on paypal is this:
Business Contact Information 
Customer Service URL: http://www.DealsDealsExtreme.com
Customer Service Email:	[email protected]
Customer Service Phone:	540-303-6383


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## patnor1011

Here is invoice I sent him through paypal


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## patnor1011

I would post "his" handbook here but it has over 14MB he obviously do not know how to put up pdf together and it is in fact my book but I just do not want to waste forum bandwith uploading nonsense. I am just going to make few comparison picture with my work on one side and what he is selling on other side for members to see.


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## Palladium

On the report page on ebay it lists that as a reason to report it. I just reported all his listings as being mis-listed.
If you have an ebay account, which i'm sure a couple of us do, feel free to click away! :mrgreen:


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## Palladium

aflac!


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## patnor1011

Feedback I left for him


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## glondor

HAHA Nice one Pat. Do you think he will pay?? I just wrote a longish post about how you can use Irfanview to access the exif data on your photos to prove time, date and other things but it seems to have gone into the internet black hole. Exif data tells all...All you need is to produce one unpublished photo of your material and....he's done. Preferably the ones of your button you did not use, you know the ones, a bit blurry, light not quite right, not centered. 

Who was processing flat packs and IC's 30 years ago... Raise your hands..... No one? Thought so. (GSP put your hand down) : )


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## Palladium

patnor1011 said:


> Here is invoice I sent him through paypal



Now that's funny!


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## joem

BTW your palm print which is unique to you is in your picture ( the one with the button) let him prove it's their hand.
edit for clarity


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## patnor1011

I just checked date of creation of "his" guide - 11/07/2012 23:11:55, and date of creation of my one - 17/11/2011 09:13:26
I am sure that there are some people over here who bought this from him before 11th of july this year there are about 11 of them, I would love to see what he was sending them - it is quite possible that it was my book minus contact details invitation to join forum.


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## Palladium

On a side note has anyone heard gold mine world and T-6 is no longer with us!
Also, if you want to see something cool check out the NASA channel on the net or dish to watch the Mars curiosity landing in less than 2 hours.


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## patnor1011

Palladium said:


> On a side note has anyone heard gold mine world and T-6 is no longer with us!
> Also, if you want to see something cool check out the NASA channel on the net or dish to watch the Mars curiosity landing in less than 2 hours.



Do not sidetrack readers from my rant at ebay thieves, only if you want to say that they may get their arses kicked to Mars if they do that again!!!
:lol: :twisted: :mrgreen: :lol: :twisted: :mrgreen:


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## patnor1011

Another development.... Hear hear :twisted: 

I got email from that dude - now that is a fine reading:

[No Subject] 
FROM:
Harold Hackler
TO:
[email protected]

Message flagged Monday, 6 August 2012, 5:04

Thats fine dude you dont have to readvise the feedback ebay removed it there selves you see you cant leave feeback for a transaction that never happened and you also can not point anyone to somewhere outside of ebay you did a very bad violation there and i will be contactig this so called forum with my lawyer an have them remove my material since i hold the copyright and have proved to ebay this by law this forum will have to remove it as well if you have put it there!

No you didnt have your listing in wrong place i am a part of Ebays Vero program (Verified Owner Rights Program) and I had them shut your listing down for you trying to sell what I hold a legal copyright on you know they would have never touched your listing if i didnt have proof i hold the copyright and you know this!

All my listings are in the right place I sell printed version or cd versin customers choice PDF format guides you cant call mie a ebook

when there is no download o anything emailed from me and i can even start adding tracking numers to all my deliveries to prove it would that make you happy lil man I guess you do have to be from USA to be smart!
You can say anything you want about me being investigaed thats fine Ive broke no rules only you have I stole nothing when I have a legal copyright to back my claims but you are trying and ebay sees that and as far as you providing evidence I have never got a thing from you or ever asked you for anything it is you trying get what i have legal claim to!
As far as you saying something about me saying you put guide somewhere thats not me sayig that that you sing that!
And no you can not download my listings anywhere or get them electronically you have to buy and wait for mail to run ebay and even paypal has on record every shipping label and even tracking number for every package Ive mailed they take the postage right out of my paypal acct!
So bottom line is this I have the legal copyright and have already sent ebay all documents leave me be or your going find yourself in front of a United States Court!!!

**************************************************************************************************

So it seems that this scam story is going on and on.... He is not going to stop, why when he can profit from some other people work well he is in for a surprise. I gave guide to forum for free and it is time to give it to ebay buyers for free too. :lol: 

Here is a picture of my email from ebay which directly prove that he is lying, he did not submitted anything to ebay he cant as he do not actually own or posses anything which was used in creation of my guide. My ebook was taken down as it was in wrong category but is back up and running in again. Had it restored and checked by ebay about 10 minutes after they made me aware of wrong category listing.


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## Palladium

Please see ebay for my newest PDF entitled " How to make money from space junk " Or my newest one i'm going to release in the morning titled " There's Gold On Mars " It took me over 30 minutes to steal this information and compile it.


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## MMFJ

patnor1011, you stand tall, man! From your previous posts, it is clear who has "proof of first writing" - however, there are some things you might want to also pursue in your research and activities.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/intellectual-property-ov.html gives some good info on copyright laws and also how to report the violation to eBay (though I guess you have followed that in some fashion).
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#103 is the main law. A long, but very informative read....

If your guy is actually a member of eBay VeRO, then he had to follow these rules (from http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html)


> We require that a rights owner be registered through VeRO before reporting items to us. *Rights owners sign legally binding documents when reporting items to eBay*.


Oh, boy, when eBay finds you in the right (if on nothing else, that you have the original photos and the piece in hand!), this guy will be in a LOAD of trouble with the eBay legal staff - won't have time to mess around with anyone else!

As for "legal copyright", read the section in the code (portions I found interesting are listed here, you should read the entire code for your own reference)


§ 101 . Definitions
“Copyright owner”, with respect to any one of the exclusive rights comprised in a copyright, refers to the owner of that particular right.

A work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time; where a work is prepared over a period of time, the portion of it that has been fixed at any particular time constitutes the work as of that time, and where the work has been prepared in different versions, each version constitutes a separate work.

To “display” a work means to show a copy of it, either directly or by means of a film, slide, television image, or any other device or process or, in the case of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to show individual images nonsequentially.

“Pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works” include two-dimensional and three-dimensional works of fine, graphic, and applied art, photographs, prints and art reproductions, maps, globes, charts, diagrams, models, and technical drawings, including architectural plans. Such works shall include works of artistic craftsmanship insofar as their form but not their mechanical or utilitarian aspects are concerned; the design of a useful article, as defined in this section, shall be considered a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work only if, and only to the extent that, such design incorporates pictorial, graphic, or sculptural features that can be identified separately from, and are capable of existing independently of, the utilitarian aspects of the article.

§ 102 . Subject matter of copyright: In general
(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.
Then, there is a 'tricky' bit in (b)

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.
I say 'tricky' because isn't that just what you are fighting about - a process, procedure, etc.???? IF SO, then guess what - NEITHER of you actually can claim copyright (which opens up a can of worms in itself for forum postings..., but ALSO an interesting bit on his claim of copyright "documentation".....) and IF NOT, then just what is the fight about??? (in order to find exactly what part of the code fits)

Oh, this could go on and on with code snippets, etc., but after reading the above, where does all this stand (in my opinion, it is more of a 'beat him with his own stick' kind of thing - as he cannot claim copyright to the work any more than anyone can!)

(and, in case anyone is wondering, I love doing this kind of 'legal'-ish research about as much as Palladium loves tracking IP numbers! :!:


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## patnor1011

I do not fight about that I invented process. That process was here I just put it out in one documented experiment. 
However I will fight for using my words and sentences and mainly pictures. By the way my guide was on ebay many months before he start selling what he stole from forum. He is just trying to talk tough and he think it will help him but he just prove who he is - a thief. I have no problem to call him like that as I can easily prove what I said. I have all evidence he has only foul mouth and bad manners.

Thanks for support, I appreciate that. My pictures are out there but original well over 5mb each and about 40 of them are safely at hand and on a way to Ebay on cd to prove that he is trying even to deceive them. Oh boy how I hope he really is member of ebay VeRO that will make things even easier.


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## patnor1011

S(tea)ller updated his listing. He now claim to have well over 100 pdf ready from his late father work and is going to unleash all this on ebay soon. And he just took down 2 of my pictures and replaced them with one which he apparently "sourced" somewhere else. I wonder who will recognize his buttons on that listing now. :shock: 
Hmmm it is either ebay who asked him not to use that two of my images in his listing or he just start sensing problems like when SHTF.

His listing with my pictures is on this thread. They are last two out of 10 he put up there - my pan with wires and my button which he distorted in his pamphlet and claimed it weight 20,4g
He put up two pictures of the same button of mine claiming one button weight 10,2g and another is from second batch with twice as much of IC and flatpacks and that that second weight 20,4g :lol: 
He must be wizard or very patient person putting together three groups of identical mix of IC and flatpacks in every group and one of the best in using pan as he panned identical number of bonding wires from both batches. :shock:


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## glondor

Hey Pat. After I received dudes reply to my question posted earlier I asked him when he copyrighted the material.Here is the reply. 


Look i didnt even have to contact you to even tell you what i did tell you!

I was trying to be considerate, I could have just told ya to mind your own buisness, and left it as that!

I could have deleted your email and not give you anymore thought what so ever!

Now date copyrighted was in Sep 2001 along with 6 more of my methods including 1 patend that i have never decided rather to sell or not now as far as showing you any legal documets I dont know you from adam or eve you are just someone putting your nose in something that does not concern you in ny way shape or form whatsoever!!!

I have nothing to prove to you in anyway ebay has all my legal documents they are the only ones that I have to prove anything to, and i have done so use your brain ebay would have never removed his listing if I didnt have te legal paperwork to back me 100% to prove copyright belongs to me and only me!

And like I said what has been going on between me and patrick has been going on for years its more so about 2 friends falling apart me decideing to go in one direction and the oher one being jealous over the other ones acomplishments success, and gain!

This isnt the 1st time lil patrick has tryed to take credit for one of my works, and probally wont be te last either! There are many other good people that he has tryed the same thing with he does it all the time he knows that sometimes not everyone will actually copyright thier docment!

Thats another thing alot people will say they have a copyright they will even place a symbol on thier work but thier to lazy to actually pay the $35.00 processing fee to have the document legally copyrighted so it will hold up in a court of law!

I pay the money each document because i know each my methods will make its money back I always pre-register my work as the date counts as your original date fee cost $115 per document by the time Im done I pay $195 a document to be copyrighted like I said I have 12 individual methods setting in copyright now they have had pre-registered back in Jan this year but I didnt get final work done until 6 weeks ago that cost me $2340.00 but Ill make the money back on them in no time once I release them!

For the last almot 5 years I have 3 DVD,s pre-registered right now Ive been wiorking on, And 2 books pre-registered the pre-registered date of Sep 2 2007 will count as the actual copyright date once work is finalized it will have all my methods as well as my late fathers the creations built and patended such as sluices, rocker boxes, dredges, forges ect... it will be my complete work everything sure its costing a pretty penny but will more than pay for itself a million times over!

Im actually building a forum that i will open once all is released so anyone can reach me discuss things ect right now i refuse to join any groups, forums, dicussions ect its to risky for me to mess up and say something that may allow others to sneak in on my work Ive learned my lesson when i got to know patrick over the years since then Ive had tons of requests from others to join them and help with others but i wont tke the chance again until im ready!

Anyway Ive rambled on enough I didnt need to tell you any of this as its nothing to do with you, but I will say this if patrick keeps on he will be finding himself tied up in court im done playing games with him Ive had enough of his crap!!!


Pat, do you know this guy? He claims he was a friend of yours. His copyright dates are all over the map. Just his writing and spelling errors speak against his actually being the author of anything. If some of his claims are true, he has been stealing a LOT of material to copyright and claim as his own.


----------



## Palladium

Palladium said:


> On a side note has anyone heard gold mine world and T-6 is no longer with us!



http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/433732_Home-full-of-chemicals-shuttered.html#ixzz22fkxCIhN


----------



## kurt

Like MMFJ I like this kind of legal stuff (I should have been a lawer - only problem was that when I was a kid/younger man you could not sit me down in chair & teach me anything - I was one of those hyper active attention defict disorder kids before the had a name for it) :lol: 

Anyway - this just keeps getting more interesting all the time - If I have followed this right (& I believe I have) This guy may well find himself in a world of hurt because it sound to me like not only is he commiting fraud by taking something that was made "public domain" when Pat published here on the open & free public GRF forum & then tried to claim it as his own work - but it sounds like he may also be commiting forgery.

I am betting he has documents (something he can fax to to ebay to so call prove his case) but I am betting they are forged documents

First of all he claims a copy right date of 2001 --- so why has he waited till 2012 to make it available for sale - I mean if I had put the time, effort & money into this kind of work I would make it available for sale ASAP & I would be asking a whole lot more then $3 or $6 for it

secondly - if I actually had the copyright to my work I would not be changing the content of the copies I was selling (replacing pictures) I would want what I was selling to be the very same content of the copy I filed with the U.S. copyright office (Its my copyright & it stands "as is")

I googled " copyrights harold lee hackler 3rd" & the only thing that came up (concerning copyrights) was his listing on ebay - so I tried going to the U.S. copyright office web site to do a search but ran into a problem --- I am on dial up & it took 10 minutes just to down load their home page - so no way can I afford the time to do an actual search --- So MMFJ - can you maybe do a search with the copyright office on this guy - it shouldn't take to much time for someone with high speed internet to find out if this guy is ligit & if he is not I am sure the U.S. copyright office would be happy to find out he is "forging" copyright documents

They will skin him alive & nail his hide to the barn door - that will be the only law suite he will need to worry about - the one the federal gov brings against him for criminal forgery - & well - those kids he cares so much about - about the only time he is going to see them - is when they come to vist him in prison

By the way - this guy should not be banned from the forum yet - when he joined & when he started making certain of "his" so called guides available for sale may be needed as evidence.

Kurt


----------



## joem

Then, there is a 'tricky' bit in (b)

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

This being true except compilation and layout can be copyrighted. That's why our book says compiled. Canadian copyright web site allows this as a choice when registering. Copyrights are also world wide protected. Copyright can be tricky when how you say it is more important than what you say ( just look at any grouped section of biology books in a library) but theft of every and all photos is a completely different thing, I still like that your palm print is yours and no one elses and until he can prove he went to Ireland to take that picture of your hand, he will be S out of luck.


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## Lou

Patnor, 


I look forward to seeing your response to this with side by sides and time stamped data. 

I don't think the financial impact of this on you is very serious (a couple hundred bucks seemingly) but the principle of the thing is very important! I applaud you and everyone here for taking on this guy.


----------



## patnor1011

Lou, guys
Of course I will as I am working on exposing his forgery of my ebook. I have no problem to prove my ownership of all pictures he used. While this will be proven it will also show that text he used was also copied from my handbook. 
Some of his clients who paid for this forgery do have it and it is an evidence in itself, he will not help himself when he change pictures, he already committed offence and got financial gain out of it no matter how small it was done.

I dont know him and truth is that I did not knew a bit about gold recovery in 2001 :lol: My interest was sparked upon seeing my friends recycling plant and upon discovering this forum. He is just trying hard to discredit me as he knows he is a thief who stole from here.

I will soon start upload pictures where it will be clear he just stole it from here. Btw he is a very bad designer he basically distorted most of my pictures stolen from here 

Lou I am not sure what time stamp mean - some of pictures I used in book were uploaded here and date of upload is in each post.


----------



## lazersteve

I'm curious what other people's work he has claimed?

I know other websites have posted guides on forges and such as he mentioned.

Maybe his DVDs are actually copies of mine?

Anyone buy his other 'works'?

Steve


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## joem

Sales are blocked from canada, so I can't review any.
edit for clarity


----------



## patnor1011

He is not a member of ebay VeRO program. Have it confirmed by them too. He is full of lies, this is going to be interesting, well even ebay is taking notice of all this. 
edited*
wrong link eh
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/vero/participants.html


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## joem

A court descision relating to vero
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/15/ebay_uk_verified_rights_owner_ruling/


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## patnor1011

Time to have fun. In this post I show date of creation of my handbook which I placed for download here and his forgery which he sold several times to various people. In my next one I start uploading comparison pictures some with brief description. I did not included first 3 pages might or might not be his own work I cant say as while he copied rest from me he maybe copied that 3 pages from somebody else too. He obviously excluded last page of my book with contacts ad reference to forum and substituted that with fancy legal disclaimer or copyright warning - he is making mockery of US&A Copyright Act.
Have fun! Comments are welcome.


----------



## patnor1011

I will post all 14 comparison pictures in 3 posts. Here is first of them, enjoy.


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## patnor1011

Second out of three.


----------



## patnor1011

Third and last.


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## patnor1011

And I see BingBot at work - for now I am happy his thievery will be forever exposed and archived on internet for everyone to see. 8)


----------



## Palladium

I went on a rampage last night on ebay. I got my new favorite hobby i do believe. I must have reported 200 ads about refining for delivery of goods through digital media. I also seen Steve's and Joem's book as well as some other forum members stuff, but those are hard copies and are doing nothing wrong. If i reported something wrong or accidentally got something wrong someone please advise me. I think i will do this for awhile to level the playing field and to fight back against the trend that has developed on ebay. You might make money, but in order to do so you are going to have to mail hard copies and that cost money and time. All the sudden the easy money is gone maybe so will part of the scammers.


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## element47.5

two-hundred-instances---?

Wow.


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## joem

element47.5 said:


> two-hundred-instances---?
> 
> Wow.


 8)


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## patnor1011

Just to clarify what I am showing here and fighting for is that this person come here and took my ebook, slightly changed text and extracted and used MY pictures. 
He is making money selling my pictures to be precise. This is my point I already raised with ebay and they investigate case.
If forum owner or moderators deem these comparison pictures may harm forum or are inappropriate let me know or just take them down.


----------



## Oz

I can only speak for myself Pat, but I do not see how you showing these other pictures next to yours could hurt the forum as it is rather clear they were yours to start with. If anything it may help the forum by showing others that the membership here will defend their personal property rights.

Thank you for sharing your work on the forum for other members to benefit from in the first place. Hopefully you will be successful in defending your intellectual property and that this event does not discourage you or others from doing so in the future.


----------



## MMFJ

kurt suggested a copyright search - VERY GOOD!!!! (wish I'd thought of it first..... 

http://cocatalog.loc.gov just enter the (now infamous?) name 'hackler' (to be sure you get ALL results by anyone with that last name!)

VOILA! 69 hits, though (not surprisingly....), NONE by anyone named Harold Lee, and NONE on any subject of or related to gold - in any fashion!

Well, ain't THAT interesting?????


----------



## qst42know

lazersteve said:


> I'm curious what other people's work he has claimed?
> 
> I know other websites have posted guides on forges and such as he mentioned.
> 
> Maybe his DVDs are actually copies of mine?
> 
> Anyone buy his other 'works'?
> 
> Steve



Anyone recognize their photos here?

http://www.amazon.com/Remove-Computer-Boards-Without-Nitric/dp/B0086X2D76


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## Palladium

It's Hackler!

Deals ! Deals! Extreme he calls himself.


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## MMFJ

qst42know said:


> Anyone recognize their photos here?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Remove-Computer-Boards-Without-Nitric/dp/B0086X2D76


Nope, but I recognize a "less-than-acurate" type person (one who doesn't pay attention to detail - ah, heck, I really want to say something a LOT more harsh, but I'm holding my tongue......)

Check out the passage (and remember, you are on AMAZON......


> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LOOKING AT MY AUCTION! I WILL EMAIL THIS GUIDE TO YOU IN PDF FORMAT ITS 30 PAGES 8.92mb PDF TO YOUR EMAIL & EBAY INBOX



I find 3 issues with that (not withstanding the horrid slashing of the English language and rules of punctuation, capitalization and about 200 others.....)


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## qst42know

Palladium said:


> It's Hackler!
> 
> Deals ! Deals! Extreme he calls himself.



That's how I found it, using "iii" for the third.


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## MMFJ

qst42know said:


> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's Hackler!
> 
> Deals ! Deals! Extreme he calls himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's how I found it, using "iii" for the third.
Click to expand...

OK, guys - that's great, but ????????
WHO? - we know....
WHERE? - nope
HOW? - nope
WHY? - we've a good guess...
WHEN? - we know

but those 'nope's up there have me lost.........


----------



## jimdoc

qst42know said:


> Palladium said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's Hackler!
> 
> Deals ! Deals! Extreme he calls himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's how I found it, using "iii" for the third.
Click to expand...


He uses all caps all the time, except for when he is supposed to.
Genius.

Jim


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## qst42know

Found his listings on eBay/Canada and eBay/Russia both list the origin as Winchester, Va.

He sold 127 copies on eBay.UK

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Recover-Gold-Plated-Items-And-Turn-Into-99-995-Pure-Gold-scrap-gold-recovery-/140782420879


----------



## micronationcreation

qst42know said:


> Found his listings on eBay/Canada and eBay/Russia both list the origin as Winchester, Va.
> 
> He sold 127 copies on eBay.UK
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Recover-Gold-Plated-Items-And-Turn-Into-99-995-Pure-Gold-scrap-gold-recovery-/140782420879



He's doing it for his kids though... :mrgreen:


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## Smack

Pay pal will TAKE money out of his bank and put it in the RED to get you your money if/ when you win, then his bank will be like HEY!!! Put money in to bring your account out of the red.


----------



## qst42know

micronationcreation said:


> qst42know said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found his listings on eBay/Canada and eBay/Russia both list the origin as Winchester, Va.
> 
> He sold 127 copies on eBay.UK
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Recover-Gold-Plated-Items-And-Turn-Into-99-995-Pure-Gold-scrap-gold-recovery-/140782420879
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's doing it for his kids though... :mrgreen:
Click to expand...


Yeah, what's he raising them to be?


----------



## kurt

Ok – from a legal stand point Harold Lee Hackler III (testywolfe) can not be accused of stealing Pats guide & selling it for profit (although I agree that – that is what he is doing from a moral point of view) --- (I am on your side about that Pat) but from a technical point of “law” he is doing nothing wrong by simply pulling something you posted here on the forum & turning around & selling it elsewhere on the internet (ebay) --- Anybody can pull anything off of this forum & turn around & sell it elsewhere as an electronic download &/or hard paper copy – pictures included. --- The only exception would be if you took the time & measures to “protect” it as your “original work” BEFORE posting it here on the forum.

Why? – because once you post something here on the forum (pictures included) you have made it “public domain” --- meaning it has been made “public knowledge” open & free to the public - to be used by the public - & that includes someone from the public – selling it to the public – if they can find a buyer.

You can only accuse someone of “stealing” your intellectual property IF you have taken the time & measures to protect it BEFORE it is made public knowledge – that is the “technical” fact of law.

On the other hand --- something that has been made public knowledge (put into the public domain) CAN NOT – be taken by someone else – at a “later” date - & claimed by them to be an original work of their own & thereby be claimed as “intellectual property” (copyrighted) to which they have “sole” ownership & “exclusive” sales & distribution rights to. (which is what Harold Hackler is trying to do here)

To do so constitutes an act of fraud!!! --- To prove fraud (in a case like this) you have to be able to prove it was not the “original creation” of the person claiming it to be their original creation --- That is what copyrights, patents & trademarks do – the protect original creation as intellectual property to which you hold sole & exclusive right to.

So – form a moral stand point of view – Harold Hackler may be a sneaky little conniving SOB thief by taking stuff from the forum here & simply turning around & selling it on ebay – by technical law – he would not be considered a thief to simply sell Pats guide on ebay – because he would simple be selling something from the public domain to willing buyers

HOWEVER – his claim to sole & excusive intellectual property is in fact an act of fraud – because Pat can (&/or we can) prove that it was put in the public domain here FIRST by Pat --- we have time & date stamps of when Pat posted it here & Pats pictures prove it was his work (that palm print is just like a finger print)

So – all you have to do Pat – is contact the U.S. copyright office & ask them if Harold Lee Hackler III (&/or anyone with the last name Hackler) has filed for a copyright on your guide & they will cancel his copyright (& that’s about all that will happen on the case of fraud – as well as “maybe” looking into other copyrights he has filed)

On the other hand – if Harold Hackler is “forging” U.S. government copyright documents – to claim copyright – (which is what I believe he is doing) they will skin him alive – nail his hide to the barn door & he will get to see those kids he loves so much only if & when they come to visit him in federal prison.

Stop playing “his” cat & mouse game of trying to prove anything on &/or with ebay --- go directly to the U.S copyright office – they will ruin his life with criminal charges if he is doing what I think he is doing – the U.S. government does not take lightly the forging of their documents & this guy will wish he had never heard of the gold refining forum.

Sorry for the long post again but I wanted to make it clear that by technical law you can’t accuse him of being a thief (although morally I agree he is) but he is certainly guilty of fraud (a minor offence in this case) & most likely also guilty of forgery (a major offence in this case) & probably a trade his late daddy taught him – it runs in the family

Kurt


----------



## kurt

MMFJ said:


> kurt suggested a copyright search - VERY GOOD!!!! (wish I'd thought of it first.....
> 
> http://cocatalog.loc.gov just enter the (now infamous?) name 'hackler' (to be sure you get ALL results by anyone with that last name!)
> 
> VOILA! 69 hits, though (not surprisingly....), NONE by anyone named Harold Lee, and NONE on any subject of or related to gold - in any fashion!
> 
> Well, ain't THAT interesting?????



Ok I just tried the U.S.copyright office search link provided here by MMFJ & yep absolutely zero, zip. zilch nada on any copyright by anyone named Harold Lee Hackler III & nothing about gold recovery, refining, or processing by anyone else with the last name of Hackler.

Pat - contact the U.S. copyright office & report this guy - he is going to wish he had never heard of the gold refining forum &/or messed with your work.

If only they still preformed public hangings - this would be one hanging I would attend :twisted: :lol: 

Kurt


----------



## patnor1011

All right. 
It seems to me he is just some kid. At least his responses and emails show signs of either young age or level of intellect. 
Here is another email I got today:

from a friend harold

FROM: Patricia Burns ( [email protected] )
TO: [email protected]
Message flagged Tuesday, 7 August 2012, 8:40
Ok 1st off i dont know you or anyone on this forum this whole thing is over i dont even have ebay acct i just dont care for them. Now reason i am contacting you i was asked from a good friend whom i owe my life to twice if id send messages from him to you he was instructed from his lawyer and FBI not to have direct contact with you from this point on in anyway after what he recieved in his email last night and today. he recieved 7 emails from people who say they are from this forum thing you all do they all were nasty talking about coming to his country blowing his house up killing his kids in front him then killing him another one said they were going put bombs in his whole familys cars and video tape them dieing another said something about coming here and kidnap his kids then make him pay everything he has to get them back the grouse one said they were going come here kill his whole family then take his kids and sell them as lil slaves but after they rape his daughter and make him watch thats not funny she is only 9 years old thats sick and cruel they were all nasty.

i told him i would like i said i owe my life to him we are child hood friends and when i was 19 there was a bunch of us out being stupid partying my boyfriend at time decided he was going race another guy that was there my boyfriend was a jerk and a really angry person he made me stay in the car when he raced i guess he thought it impressed me before i knew it our car flipped out of control my boyfriend went through the window and i was pinned in i dont remember much except when i come to in hospital everyone said it was harold who got me out that car before it exploded then again 3 years ago when i was 35 my house caught on fire why me and my 3 kids were in bed something about a short in wires harold lived 4 houses away it was him that saved me and my kids from dieing so i owe him my life and then some. i started a new email cause i dont want no one having my reg email with this crazy stuff going on

all i know is im a god fearing lady and i pray you all can work this out ive never seen him as mad as he is he is ex navy seal and has alot pull with alot big wigs everywhere even has family in the government in many areas through out the years knowing him ive met tons people he knows and ive seen him make phone calls and get stuff done a normal person can only dream of i know for fact several his family are us marshalls pretty high up chain hes best friends with cindy the daughter of our highest federal judge we have here on the bench that has ties with our stupid president and cindy is the highest federal lawyer in office he has a aunt and i think 3 cousins work in our copyright patend office and 2 uncles thats some kind high ranking generals in our military and theres many many more basically most his family is in our government some way or another all day hes had cars coming and going fancy cars and alot i guess military buddies from what i can tell by way they were dressed this road has been busy theres even unmarked cars setting up down road with people in them he went and got all his weapons even military stuff he has and armed everything he dont like keeping that kind stuff at his house with kids around he sent his kids to some family anyway hun this is what he sent me to send you below i hope to god you work this stuff out and will be praying for all.





his words from his email he sent me



Thats fine dude you and your lil buddies at that forum can do whatever you think you need to do I also have some buddies on that forum also who send me a copy of everything said I have buddies hat are supose to be your friends they even comment bud then send me stuff dam youd be surprised wouldnt you I have 12-15 give a few there!

I have a copy of everything on that server every post every repost all methods you name I got it!
And yes i know the copyright laws real real well I know all about a video showing how things were done ect before copyright will stand and i happen to have 3-4 family members work in copyright very very high up you see I have alot family in our united states gov in all areas it helps to know people in high places when you need something done!


And as far as you all doing copyright searches ect search your heart out have fun you wont find a thing see my dad I called dad wasnt my bilogical dad he was my dad cause he raised me my real father walked out on mom so i dont carry my dads namd who raised me and no one knows his real name but family and finding the documents in my name you wont when you preregister something you can keep it preregistered as long as you want but the date counts as actual copyright date and theres nothing says you have to finalize it at any certain time and also with the people I know its not hard to get anything anything done and Ive known about that lil mail trick since I was 16 about mailing yourself a copy and never open oh yeah Ive been doing that since 16 I got cases full documents Ive mailed to myself I can even get something back dated if I really wanted to its not hard to call in a favor and have post office stamp something back 30 years if I like thats a easy favour there as well have people there to!

And after what your so called friends did with there pretty lil emails and threats they sent by putting there mouth where they had no buisness at all was make this harder for you and your beloved so call forum everything they sent me about what there going do to me and my family and even my kids blow us up shoot us kidnap my kids rape my daughter sell my kids to slavery oh and so much more sweet stuff!

Thats what happens when you let anger run your brain and mouth you blurt out things before you think then email to someone and with all the things that was said in these emails the FBI has them now like they saidese emails are called a hate crime and the part they will come to my country and blow things up just made this even better thats considered a terroist act especially after 911 usa dont look pretty on this and the part about my kids thats kidnapping how many more crimes do your buddies want stack on this you want hear the sweet part in every email they admitted to being a part of that forum a part of a organized group so even though I didnt get emails from all the members what your so called buddies who couldnt keep there mouths shut and mind there own buisness did for you was just start a investigation on every member of your forum because in there mails they claim everyone at thier forum feels this way towards me and thier doing it for you so that tells the law that you are the leader of a organized group that admits to major crimes they intend on doing!

Who knows it may get your forum shut completely down for this and you can only blame your hot tempered motor mouth friends and the stuff they sent me if you all lose your forum or anything that happens to any of you paypal ebay all has been informed by FBI of whats going on so tell all your friends for me I said thank you thank you so much and please by all means keep sending me threats please I beg of you tell some more of them to lose there cool!


Oh for I forget tell Mr. Kurt he thinks hes so smart well I am to and the guide that was mailed to me along with a video showing me performing my method all has the post mark date of 2001 unopened and even the copy of my guides and a video showing me performing my methods all are post marked 2001 and every thing i have done and sent to copyright and self has no gold nuggets or anyone with a hand in it i didnt take any pics like that so they wasnt put in my guide and like I said since its still considered preregistered for a book Ive been doing your search wont find nothing until finalization date which Im predicting late 2013 maybe I have alot to still put in my book alot to still add but copyright law states anything preregistered will count as date it was preregistered as the copyright date and since you dont know my fathers name you wont find anything under his name and his stuff is pretected up to 50 years after death!

I wont be contacting you from my email any longer and nothing Ive said is a threat in anyway to anyone!


----------



## patnor1011

Picture is better than a thousand words. Well a lot of pictures.... :lol:


----------



## Palladium

WOW!


I don't even think i can........ Yeah..........


----------



## Palladium

Who ever is writing those emails is not the same dirty white boy from that ebay pic. Something seems almost Nigerian in nature about this whole thing. I'm beginning to wonder about the whole thing being some elaborate scam. I do know someone who knows him a little better. Think i'll pick his brain.


----------



## Lou

I frankly think the guy should be left alone--it would seem to me that he's not in the best of health (upstairs) what with the delusions of grandeur, the vague threats that his high-level military/gov't connections are going to rain down upon us.


Some how I refuse to believe that Patnor has anything more to do with this guy other than being a victim of IP theft.


----------



## patnor1011

You are right Lou. I have nothing to do with him and never had. That will be proven shortly enough, as I am not the only one whose work and pictures he took from here and claim as work of his hands.
I have realized that he must be somehow challenged right after his first reactions and replies he sent to me. But that is not excuse for him not to be responsible for what he did and still continue to do. 
If only he reacted different with a humbleness or humility and admitted that he is used my guide to create his work, that he used my pictures and offered some kind of resolution, it all might have been resolved with everyone being happy.
I dont know what else can I say apart that he choose d wrong way to sort out things. And as I said I am not the only one, there are more of us.


----------



## kurt

Its all 100% B.S. he is running scared & trying to back pedal – everything he is saying is scare tactics trying to get us off his back & scare us from turning him in & getting him in hot water. I have seen this kind of B.S. many, many times 

As far as not knowing his fathers name & therefore not being able to find anything of his fathers copyrights because of not knowing his fathers name – well --- there is a reason this guys name is Harold the 3rd --- here is an article on his fathers death

HACKLER, HAROLD LEE - age 58 of Knoxville, TN passed away at 7:30 p.m. Thursday, September 13, 2007 at Jefferson City Health and Rehab following a brief illness. He was of the Baptist faith. Preceded in death by: his wife, Diane Hackler; parents, Harold and Margaret Hackler. Survived by: daughter, Stephanie Hackler of New Market; daughter and son-in-law, Dawn and Brendan Caldwell of Knoxville; son and daughter-in-law, Matthew and Brandy Hackler of Knoxville; sons, Harold Lee Hackler and William G. Hackler, both of Virginia; fourteen grandchildren; sister, Sherry (Ronald) Mebust of Dandridge; brothers, John S. Hackler of Maryland and George C. Hackler of Knoxville; several nieces and nephews. Memorial funeral services will be held at a later date. The family requests that in lieu of flowers, memorials may be made to: Smoky Mountain Home Health and Hospice, Inc., 1135 West 3rd North Street, Morristown, TN 37814. Arrangements by Farrar Funeral Home in Jefferson City, TN 37760 (!
865) 475-3892. www.farrarfuneralhome.com.


Lou - This guy is not a nut case - he is a 39 year old conman & he knows full well what he is doing - he has been caught at it & is now trying to back pedel & is using scare tactics to try to get us off his back --- Like I said I have seen this B.S. many times before & have in fact been the victim of this kind of B.S. & he will continue do this to people tell he is stopped - his ex wife was most likely a victim of his B.S. lies & most likely so he could get the kids & get a welfare check - fraud & forgery are the name of his game & he most likely learned it all from his late father - there is no truth in him - what ever the case may be - this is a learned behavor from childhood

Kurt


----------



## patnor1011

Kurt is right.
Have look at this:
http://newspaperarchive.com/winchester-star/1989-10-06/page-13/


----------



## joem

I decided to remove my comments it does not help to resolve a situation which is not really my business. My comments here or not here It does not change this topic of this thread.


----------



## kurt

I just sent this email to the U.S. copyright office so we should know the facts in a day or 2 --------

I have looked in the on line registration catalog under the name Hackler & although I found 69 copyrights registered under the name Hackler none of them were for a Harold Lee & none of then had anything to do with processing gold in anyway shape or forum.

Here is the thing – I am a member of a discussion forum that discusses the refining of precious metals – about a year ago one of the members put together a PDF guide on how to process the gold from integrated circuits (which we call IC chips) & posted it to the forum

About 2 months ago this guy Harold Lee Hackler III joined the forum under the user name testywolfe – He then down loaded the PDF guide on processing chips (& we suspect other information from the forum) & a few days ago it was discovered that he has put it on ebay for sale --- no big deal in & of its self.

However – in his posting on ebay he is making the claim to hold a copyright on this guide with a copyright date of 2001 (as well as other material he is selling claiming to have copyrights on & he says he is going to be posting more stuff in the very near future for sale all of course copyrighted)

But as I say – when doing a copyright catalog search – there is “nothing” registered under Harold Lee Hackler III & nothing about any kind of gold processing under any other last name of Hackler

So now that we have called him on the fact that we find no record of copyright on this or any other work he claims to hold copyright to he is now saying that it is because it is still only pre-registered

We believe he is running a con game pulling information from the internet (which means it has already gone into the public domain before hand) & then claiming it to be his “original creation” protected under copyright as his intellectual property when in fact it is not --- this would constitute fraud.

He also claims he has faxed copies of his copyright to ebay to prove he holds said copyrights --- if that is true – but in fact he hold no such copyrights – then he is forging copyright documents to try to prove his case with ebay

He is now making threat of legal action against the forum & its members & making claims that members of the forum have sent him threatening emails & that he is going to get the FBI involved – this of course is most likely scare tactic to try to get us off his back & stop us from having us investigate him & his con game.

Here is a link to his ebay web page http://myworld.ebay.ie/testywolfe

This is the guide in question 
Recover gold from Integrated Circuit Chips easy & fastest way scap gold recovery
US $3.30
Time Left: 28d 15h 09m 50s 


Can you help us solve this case in question

Thank you
Kurt Kleinstick


----------



## element47.5

With all due respect, Kurt...there is an important principle in civil law, which I state as "the law does not apply itself". What I mean is that in civil law, there is no mystery force, no authority visible or invisible, that cares one whit about your issue. Nobody in civil law does anything without being paid. I say this from modest but I believe real world experience, and I do not say this to criticize you or your actions or thoughts. I am just supplying a persepective. I just went through a lawsuit where I thought I had the defendant dead to rights in an elder-abuse case (she stole my uncle's estate which named me as heir) where the law as written in the CA civil codes is as black and white as any law I have ever read. It is all 2-sentence, very non-legalese law, and I believe it favored me in all respects. Nevertheless, I "sued" (not really sued, but began the proceedings to sue, which essentially meant 1: achieved the status of "special administrator" which allowed me to investigate and subpena documents from brokerages, etc; and 2: sought a restraining order freezing her bank account) I ran up $37K in legal costs, and achieved a $40K settlement. I think I will net $3K, but I can assure you, my attorney is working on snaking that crappy little $3K net away even as i write this. This on an estate which named me as beneficiary to the tune of $465K. Yep, I had to settle for less than a penny on the dollar. Incidentally, we did NOT get to the actual lawsuit. The great bulk of my legal costs went to achieving the TRO Temporary Restraining Order (which, in and of itself, automatically expires in like 90 days unless it is perfected into an actual restraining order. The cost of achieving the TRO was in the $30K range. Not the full restraining order, not the lawsuit. Nobody was deposed; that $30K only covered the document production, the paralegal hours, the attys' hours, filing fees, Xerox fees. I do in fact believe your side of the story, eg; that your original work has been pirated. The fact of the matter is that litigation is so astronomically expensive that "normal" people have essentially no access to it.

But that does not amount to anything. If you are the copyright holder, that only means that you have the right to sue or enjoin the pirate from profiting from your work. Nobody cares about this but you. Even if you achieve a judgement, it remains up to you to collect such a judgement. And again, nobody cares about your problems collecting any such judgement. The law does not apply itself. It requires a sparkplug, a warhead, who believes in their case and is wiling to expend massive, massive funds in sufficient quantity to carry out the legal assault, all the way to getting a judgement, at which point the successful plaintiff has to collect that judgement, which is itself another legal battle. 

Again, I lay this out not to criticize you in the slightest, but only to give a real-world view of what is involved.


----------



## its-all-a-lie

Why not copy his ad from ebay and provide it there yourself for free, with links to all the info here on the forum of course? Just an idea, why pay for something when it is offered for free?


----------



## patnor1011

its-all-a-lie said:


> Why not copy his ad from ebay and provide it there yourself for free, with links to all the info here on the forum of course? Just an idea, why pay for something when it is offered for free?



This is what I am doing right now. It has to have some form and shape as you have to stick with ebay policies.


----------



## Lou

element47.5 said:


> With all due respect, Kurt...there is an important principle in civil law, which I state as "the law does not apply itself". What I mean is that in civil law, there is no mystery force, no authority visible or invisible, that cares one whit about your issue.



I agree, if this is considered from a Civil Law perspective but some things seem to be not necessarily legal in the sense of criminal law...


----------



## metatp

its-all-a-lie said:


> Why not copy his ad from ebay and provide it there yourself for free, with links to all the info here on the forum of course? Just an idea, why pay for something when it is offered for free?


Ebay won't let you give it away free. They need their cut for their services. You can sell it for a very small amount, or for a donation (maybe to this forum). Make sure you block this guy from buying from you so you don't get negative feedback. It might be best to start a new account.

I was thinking of doing this myself making sure I use some of the same words so a search will bring up both items. Technically, I think I can just buy his stuff and resell it if it is not copyrighted.


----------



## glondor

Price of your booklet is now $1500 bucks Pat. The palladium one is $1500 as well. Guess he does not want to sell any.


----------



## rusty

glondor said:


> Price of your booklet is now $1500 bucks Pat. The palladium one is $1500 as well. Guess he does not want to sell any.



Shaking my head, when the book was listed at $3.00 it was a nickel and dime crime, if I had $1500.00 to toss into the wind would purchase a copy. I believe law enforcement take unkindly to mail and wire fraud especially when it crosses State lines and International Borders.


----------



## joem

All my listings have been removed due to wrong catagory??
Even though I used the same catagories and every other how to guide listed on ebay. Ebay won't remove them unless someone makes a complaint.


----------



## MMFJ

If you are trying to sell digital content, there was a 'complaint'...... (read the other posts in this thread)

Not that I disagree with it - digital content on eBay went out several years ago, though they rarely audit it without a complaint. I found a way around it long ago, though I don't put my books on there (no real reason other than I just haven't... - and, I prefer digital downloads...


----------



## patnor1011

joem said:


> All my listings have been removed due to wrong catagory??
> Even though I used the same catagories and every other how to guide listed on ebay. Ebay won't remove them unless someone makes a complaint.



It happened to me too. You do not need to guess twice why or who.


----------



## joem

patnor1011 said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> All my listings have been removed due to wrong catagory??
> Even though I used the same catagories and every other how to guide listed on ebay. Ebay won't remove them unless someone makes a complaint.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It happened to me too. You do not need to guess twice why or who.
Click to expand...


I not going to guess, but I certainly don't like it.


----------



## Palladium

Calculated moves aimed at the colony. Ebay has become an infestation as well as a threat that undermines the very foundations and the principles that this forum exist because of. It's one that i have watched grow into the crack house it is. Never really perceiving a threat, but always looking for Charlie. I've defended the shores of sovereign a nation for several years now. Their comes a time when you realize that their are barbarians at the gate. Their are those of us that would gladly take from the weak and uneducated in such things, giving them only hopes of champagne wishes and caviar dreams. Only to wake up one day to find out your faith in humanity has only been crushed that much more. Nope what i need here is a well thought out, calculated, goal oriented plan of attack to the colony. Stay tuned!

Buy the way i found this today and invited these to ladies over to the forum. http://lisettefee.blogspot.com/2012/07/refining-gold.html#comment-form

*Note: Any move anyone is thinking about should be done so with zero support or underwriting from the forum, owners, or administrators. What you do in your free time is your business.* :mrgreen: 

*The above is only my personal opinion and feel free to call me crazy at any time.*


----------



## kurt

Palladium said:


> Calculated moves aimed at the colony. Ebay has become an infestation as well as a threat that undermines the very foundations and the principles that this forum exist because of. It's one that i have watched grow into the crack house it is. Never really perceiving a threat, but always looking for Charlie. I've defended the shores of sovereign a nation for several years now. Their comes a time when you realize that their are barbarians at the gate. Their are those of us that would gladly take from the weak and uneducated in such things, giving them only hopes of campaign wishes and caviar dreams. Only to wake up one day to find out your faith in humanity has only been crushed that much more. Nope what i need here is a well thought out, calculated, goal oriented plan of attack to the colony. Stay tuned!
> 
> Buy the way i found this today and invited these to ladies over to the forum. http://lisettefee.blogspot.com/2012/07/refining-gold.html#comment-form
> 
> *Note: Any move anyone is thinking about should be done so with zero support or underwriting from the forum, owners, or administrators. What you do in your free time is your business.* :mrgreen:
> 
> *The above is only my personal opinion and feel free to call me crazy at any time.*



Ok palladium - you are crazy :twisted: you said to call you crazy any time :lol: :lol: :lol: That even makes me feel better - to know I am not the only crazy one in this world 8) how about you palladium - doesn't it make you feel better knowing your not alone in the world :mrgreen: 

But really - spot on post IMHO

Kurt


----------



## kurt

Well now - he is back pedeling as fast as he can - he has changed the wording in his ebay ad - it now reads ------

ALL MY METHODS ARE COPYRIGHTED FROM MY BOOK AND DVD EVENTUALLY I WILL RELEASE ALL TO PUBLIC ONCE FINISHED - HAROLD LEE HACKLER III


He has removed the 2001 copyright date & changed the wording to say it is "from his book & DVD" instead of a copyright on his guide.

Kurt


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## rusty

Still only $8.00 at Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Remove-Computer-Boards-Without-Nitric/dp/B0086X2D76


----------



## metatp

Here is what I got in response to trying to buy "his" guide.

"dont matter if you decline to cancel by me adding you to my block list 1st then refunding you 2nd then asking you to cancel 3rd it keeps you from completing checkout now so sale never happened and cant happen now

now out of the 5 guides i sell 3 are asi anybody can get 1 is a leach 1 is a ar and other you all already know is radio shack solution you all mentionedin your lil forum now other 2 i just raised price yo guys want them pay 1500 bucks then i may send to you lol i can leave them that price for awhile and set back on acation a lil while

if you hadnt made statement you did my buddies over there that you all think are your alls buddies wouldnt sent me a copy i put 2 and 2 together and your name matched nice try"

I am guessing English is not his first language. I don't think he wants to sell to anyone on this forum. I guess he really is a thief and only wants to prey on people that won't know.


----------



## hfywc

pat,

you can email all the buyers and inform them. as a proof you can send them a link to your original post. this way they will ask for a refund since you offer the information for free.

alan


----------



## patnor1011

hfywc said:


> pat,
> 
> you can email all the buyers and inform them. as a proof you can send them a link to your original post. this way they will ask for a refund since you offer the information for free.
> 
> alan



Alan, he is selling "repackaged" version, that mean it is my guide with slightly altered text, all my pictures but he added picture of sieve and initial 3 pages where he describe how to cut out chips off board. He also discarded pages where I addressed processing wires to get pure gold button - he is just mentioning that you can find out how to process wires in another of his guides which you will have to pay for again :lol: , and obviously he took out part with contact and forum link he substituted that with nasty threats and false copyright claim.


----------



## kurt

I see his guide on monolithic capacitors is no longer listed - so ether he removed it or it was removed due to bad feed back --- anyone know?

Kurt


----------



## rusty

Plagiarism has always been a concern to those of original works, Here's what I have learned from this incident, if you feel that your publication is worthy of copyright protection apply for and ISBN number before releasing.

We have a forum member who recently released a copyrighted publication with an ISBN number.


----------



## joem

My book has an ISBN and the copyright is on design, layout, compilation, printing, and photos. The text is copyright only because of the way Steve and I edit and wrote it. The process described in the text is not covered by copyright because it is readily available else where and is not mine nor Steve's original process, that would be a patent protection.


----------



## hfywc

regardless patnor. 

it is still worth doing if i were you. these people are smart and will recognize the validity of your claim.

alan


----------



## samuel-a

kurt said:


> I see his guide on monolithic capacitors is no longer listed - so ether he removed it or it was removed due to bad feed back --- anyone know?
> 
> Kurt



eBay removed this listing. No further explanation given though.


----------



## patnor1011

The fastest way is when buyer complain that it was digital download. His buyers did not knew what they were buying. That is a problem with 2-3 pages of item description full of crap and bombastic promises, threats and such. It serves purpose to cloud buyer`s mind and to made item to look better than it is.


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## patnor1011

Thief is at it again. Anyone want to have fun?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/testywolfe/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3692


----------



## Palladium

I've been trying to figure out a way to shake up the ebay scene. Contacting ebay may help but i'm leaning toward them changing their whole policy toward all this scrap stuff people are pushing as gold and deceiving buyers with. Don't get me wrong i like gold to now, but it has gotten out of hand over there bad! Some time in order to combat what we have seen happening you have to cut the snakes head off and the body will die with it. Companies are slow to change policy sometimes especially when it effects their bottom line. So i'm researching laws through the Federal Trade commission to see if i can get them to give some some input as to what is and isn't acceptable practices. Ebay might be a company but they still are governed by laws that tell them what they can and can't do. Anyway i've been looking through some things and thought some of you might enjoy reading a little. http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title16/16cfr23_main_02.tpl

I also found some interesting stuff from back in the 70's after gold was deregulated when they were trying to modify the laws that they wanted to be able to deviate the percentage by as much as 10% and still be able to claim plumb karat weight. :shock:

Parker pen wasn't having it! They screamed fowl on the customers part. Go Parker Pen. http://gsi.nist.gov/global/docs/vps/psfiles/PS_67-76.pdf


----------



## MMFJ

Palladium said:


> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title16/16cfr23_main_02.tpl


Seems § 23.4 Misrepresentation as to gold content. does a pretty good job of covering it...... 

Perhaps a 'blast' to eBay about it, from many concerned people would be a reasonable thing to do? And, I do NOT mean that everyone should just go blasting whatever they like - it should be a 'formalized' letter, crafted to effect change, not one-off rants!


----------



## Anonymous

lazersteve said:


> Vultures are all over the internet. They will steal any and everything they can so they don't have to work for their pay.
> 
> Not much you can do unless you want to pay an attorney to hunt him down and spend some serious money getting him to court.
> 
> You have exposed him here, that is what's important. I looked through some of his other ebay 'auctions', he claims to have a 'secret' solution to stripping gold from plated scrap... it's a bottle of Ferric Chloride from Radio Shack.
> 
> Do you know what email the booklet was delivered from?
> 
> Steve


I believe I purchased that guide. Do you have a picture of the ad that was used? If so, I may be able to help on that.

Kevin


----------



## Anonymous

See this thread below....

Even works for printed material.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=15225

Kevin


----------



## samuel-a

patnor1011 said:


> Thief is at it again. Anyone want to have fun?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/testywolfe/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3692




Check again :roll:


----------



## patnor1011

Hopefully it will be only 2 results by tomorrow. I wonder what is other two "masterpieces" contain - I mean whose info or pictures he stolen to compile that other two.


----------



## Anonymous

If you can prove your images were stolen and report it to eBay, I'm sure they'll make him stop running his ads there. Also, if you have the original picture where you took from (camera, cell phone, scanner) there will be a date stamp on it. If that person gets called out on the date he claims to have taken that picture or created it himself, he might get caught, especially if your dates are before his. The hard part is getting him to verify his pictures' information first.

Kevin


----------



## patnor1011

I am working on that.


----------



## rusty

Time and date stamped, camera and lens used.


----------



## patnor1011

Does anyone know www.123seminarsonly.com ?
I just found my guide uploaded there. Is it some forum members website?


----------



## Anonymous

patnor1011 said:


> Does anyone know http://www.123seminarsonly.com ?
> I just found my guide uploaded there. Is it some forum members website?


Which page is the guide on?


----------



## patnor1011

testerman said:


> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know http://www.123seminarsonly.com ?
> I just found my guide uploaded there. Is it some forum members website?
> 
> 
> 
> Which page is the guide on?
Click to expand...


It is hard to navigate that site but it is here:
http://123seminarsonly.com/Seminar-Reports/032/72977757-Patnor101s-guide-to-How-to-process-Black-surface-mount-chips-and-Flatpacks.pdf


----------



## Oz

Well I’ll be, they had the audacity to leave your title intact to boot! It even had the hyperlink to the forum at the bottom still. The more information you can provide forum members about those stealing your work, the better they can help you. We have a few real cyber sleuths here, as well as some with great technical knowledge that could make life difficult for some abusers. I hope you have contacted them at their e-mail address they provide so they have the chance to take the “high road” and remove your material.


----------



## Anonymous

patnor1011 said:


> testerman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know http://www.123seminarsonly.com ?
> I just found my guide uploaded there. Is it some forum members website?
> 
> 
> 
> Which page is the guide on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is hard to navigate that site but it is here:
> http://123seminarsonly.com/Seminar-Reports/032/72977757-Patnor101s-guide-to-How-to-process-Black-surface-mount-chips-and-Flatpacks.pdf
Click to expand...

I see the .pdf file is the same that I have downloaded from here. 

One problem though without me actually comparing both pdf files side-by-side. The problem is that it is your work and all, but if everything is left intact and nothing at all is changed, what's the issue about someone giving you more exposure? I WILL compare their pdf file to the one I received from here and if they are both the exact same thing, word for word, and image for image, I wouldn't dare say anything about it to him/her. They're giving you more exposure.

In other words, as long as no one touches your pdf files at all in no way, you should be happy to have different outlets distribute your material. That would be like you are saying even if I don't do anything but distribute your material (without charging money) I'm violating you. Of course you have that right, but this is the Internet. Get your stuff out there and let people see your goods and attract more traffic to ALL your websites. I do it. As long as my content isn't manipulated in any way.... more power to you. Distribute ALL my content.... well, most of it... but definitely point them to my websites and we'll be buddy's for ever.

Have you checked your server logs lately and your visitor stats to your site? According to their Alexa PageRank, they may be doing you justice. Their PageRank is better than yours.

I'm going to research this for you tonight. But, in the meantime, until you verify the person is selling and (or) manipulating your content, I would be still and silent. If he/she is stealing from you, then get them and get them good.

I'll report on the pdf file(s) tonight.

Kevin


----------



## rusty

Patnor101's file which is hosted on Scribid for free - file was probably downloaded from GRF, personally I wouldn't loose any sleep over it being in the wild for free or fee.


Scribid: http://www.scribd.com/doc/72977757/Patnor101%E2%80%99s-guide-to-How-to-process-Black-surface-mount-chips-and-Flatpacks

By the way Patnor101 job well done on the guide.


----------



## Palladium

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Pat knows it's there. I had actually pulled it and he ask me to leave it for members of the forum.


----------



## patnor1011

Thanks Rusty. It is compliment from you as you were one of the first persons experimenting with chips- my inspiration to create what I did in that guide.
I am not crying, I know it is and will be at many places, nice will be if they at least ask if they can use it. No problem with that.
I know about scribid, actually Ralph asked me prior uploading it there and I have no problem with that - this is what I am trying to say, be nice to others, that is all.


----------



## rusty

patnor1011 said:


> Thanks Rusty. It is compliment from you as you were one of the first persons experimenting with chips- my inspiration to create what I did in that guide.
> I am not crying, I know it is and will be at many places, nice will be if they at least ask if they can use it. No problem with that.
> I know about scribid, actually Ralph asked me prior uploading it there and I have no problem with that - this is what I am trying to say, be nice to others, that is all.



My point is now that your guide has populated the wild side of the net you do not have much control over it. If it's downloaded for free and some idiot the new breed of ebayer wants to fork out money for something he could have had for free would be his/her problem not yours.

Next to Monsanto, ebay in my opinion is the next most evil corporation in the world, I have a few dollars set aside for my retirement and would not waste one penny fighting either corporation over what I perceive as misdoings. 

The Farmers spray their crops to hasten ripening does this fact stop folks from eating cereal in the morning, ebay is fraught with fraud can we stop it. No, Barnum and Baily had it right - There's a sucker born every minute.

Sit back and enjoy the circus.

In the advertising world they claim bad public publicity can bring just as much good fortune to the table as good, and the bad press comes free.

I bought Refining Precious Metals with my own funds spent days scanning and proofing then gave the resulting files away for free, some of you are aware her companion book Testing Precious Metals was purchased through forum donations with Steve being the largest contributor.

Because I paid for the fist book felt free to sell it while the other was sent to Steve at no cost to him, you have to follow your conscience. I have never hidden the fact that I have a criminal history, I suppose some can actually become reformed while others become habitual.

Let it go Patnor101, the energy time and effort spent on this petty crime could be better spent.


----------



## patnor1011

I do get you Gill, but I do not let somebody to spit in my face. It is about my good name so I will fight, and at the end everything will be revealed.


----------



## kurt

rusty said:


> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Rusty. It is compliment from you as you were one of the first persons experimenting with chips- my inspiration to create what I did in that guide.
> I am not crying, I know it is and will be at many places, nice will be if they at least ask if they can use it. No problem with that.
> I know about scribid, actually Ralph asked me prior uploading it there and I have no problem with that - this is what I am trying to say, be nice to others, that is all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My point is now that your guide has populated the wild side of the net you do not have much control over it. If it's downloaded for free and some idiot the new breed of ebayer wants to fork out money for something he could have had for free would be his/her problem not yours.
> 
> Let it go Patnor101, the energy time and effort spent on this petty crime could be better spent.
Click to expand...


Rusty - no disrespect ment towards you but I think you missed the point here.

Its not that this Hackler guy is simply trying to sell Pats work (& other peoples work) on ebay for a couple dollors - if that was the case it most likely would not have been any big issue.

The real problem here is as follows

(1)Hackler claims what he is selling is his "original work" --- its not

(2)He claims to hold a copyright on the work --- he does not (thats fraud)

(3)he claims he has provided documentation to ebay on his copyright --- if he did then he is "forging" documents because he holds no copyright of any kind

(4)he has threatened both Pat & the forum with civil legal action (infrigment) if Pat tries to sell his own work &/or if the forum does not remove Pats guide from the forum

(5)he has treatened the forum & its members with criminal investigation by the FBI for messing with him & his so called copyrights

(6)and it is not just Pats guide that is in question here - he claims to have around 100 such guides that he intends to sell & "protect" though the above outlined means

Another words Hackler is "trying" to run a major con game for profit through fraudulent claims & threatening tactics & possible document forging

And that FBI thing - trust me when I say that may only be an iddle treat - but there is a VERY good likely hood that it is real - which means you, I, the forum & its members could well be under FBI investagation at this very moment.

Its a deversion tactic they use in which you end up being the one trying to prove you are innocent - its part of the con game

It may well end up back fireing on Mr Hackler in this case - he wasn't expect me here - someone that has had this con played on them & knows how it is played

I hope Hackler has called the FBI - I hope he gave them my name - I hope they (the FBI) comes to see me --- I will flip this thing around so fast it will make Hackler run for his life.

Yes I have made this personal (there is a lot of work being done in the back ground) Hackler is "threatening" me & my good friends here on the forum.

Kurt --- P.S. Hackler - I hope your reading this cause I got your number - its printed on prison clothing.


----------



## butcher

:roll:


----------



## martyn111

Patnor, I have found another thief using your pictures and selling a guide which they are claiming they have spent time and money to produce.
See this link from ebay, I would recognise your hand and 10 gram plus button anywhere.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-content-list-in-CPU-chips-CPU-scrap-price-list-RRP-38-98-3-/140828529796?pt=UK_Computing_CPUs_Processors&hash=item20ca08d484


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## patnor1011

Thank you Martyn.
He may be person of interest for all of us. He is selling goldrefiningforum handbook. Well both of them.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-refining-from-computer-scrap-RRP-64-99-/140828657951?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item20ca0ac91f#ht_2362wt_1271


----------



## martyn111

patnor1011 said:


> Thank you Martyn.
> He may be person of interest for all of us. He is selling goldrefiningforum handbook. Well both of them.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-refining-from-computer-scrap-RRP-64-99-/140828657951?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item20ca0ac91f#ht_2362wt_1271



If you want definitive proof that they are stolen files, right click the images in the lower panel of the quote from Patnor and see where the file was lifted from, surprise surprise the goldrefiningforum.com


----------



## Harold_V

martyn111 said:


> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Martyn.
> He may be person of interest for all of us. He is selling goldrefiningforum handbook. Well both of them.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-refining-from-computer-scrap-RRP-64-99-/140828657951?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item20ca0ac91f#ht_2362wt_1271
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want definitive proof that they are stolen files, right click the images in the lower panel of the quote from Patnor and see where the file was lifted from, surprise surprise the goldrefiningforum.com
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, that isn't proof of their origin, as that's the address where they are stored on the gold refining board. 

Here's what you get when you right click the ebay ad:

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/616/examplesheet.jpg

Not suggesting, not for a moment, that the information hasn't been stolen from the board. I feel it has been. 

Harold


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## Palladium

I contacted the seller. I notified him of his actions and ask if he wanted to discuss what was going on. Here's his reply. I haven't replied to him yet. Reckon what i should say to him? Besides the obvious!

Dear sarlonde224,

Sir i think we need to talk about where you got those books your selling. I'm the rightful owner of the created materials you are now selling. I have proof of ownership from their creation point forward. If i don't hear from you i will take it you mean to sell these books with malicious harm and will contact ebay as well as your buyers to make them aware of these facts. I look forward to hearing from you.

Palladium !


Hello sir,

Thank you for contacting us. Please tell me wich of these files should i delete from my listing? And i will do that.

Sorry for this misunderstanding cause mostly of these files are free downloadable and there aren't any copyright protection meaning of them.

I understand your position but please understand me.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

- sarlonde224


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## zzyyddrruuttee

Dear forum members,

Person i have bought these files told me that he found these all files hosted on Scribid. 

I have deleted all my listings already, and i can assure all this forum members that this misunderstanding will not happen again.

With all respect, don't judge me. I just started with ebay and don't know anything about legal issues.

I know i've made mistake by someone said but this will not happen again.

With all respect, Sarlonde.


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## its-all-a-lie

That is the way things are SUPPOSED to work.


zzyyddrruuttee said:


> Dear forum members,
> 
> Person i have bought these files told me that he found these all files hosted on Scribid.
> 
> I have deleted all my listings already, and i can assure all this forum members that this misunderstanding will not happen again.
> 
> With all respect, don't judge me. I just started with ebay and don't know anything about legal issues.
> 
> I know i've made mistake by someone said but this will not happen again.
> 
> With all respect, Sarlonde.


 THANK YOU SIR!


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## patnor1011

I have exchanged few emails on eBay with Sarlonde. If he really mean what he said here and there, I can only say that he is one of few who are able to acknowledge mistake and learn from it. That is something I do have a respect for.


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## metatp

Interesting. Sarlonde sold the items he was selling to testywolfe.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=testywolfe&ftab=FeedbackAsBuyer


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## Palladium

This gentleman was very nice when i talked to him about what was happening and apologized up one side and down the other. I to noticed he was a new seller. Can't blame a guy for trying i guess. You know i think their might be a way we could let this gentleman help us out. Think about this. We let him continue to sell the already free pdf's found here on the forum and on my website and donate a portion of the proceeds to the forum. It looks like old Testy hackler and the rest of them are bound and determined not to stop anyways. Why not add some honest competition into it to level the playing ground? Any comments?


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## patnor1011

He is simply mis - using VeRO to his advantage. According to VeRO or its mechanics they do presume you are right as you did complain first. Well it only look like that, if VeRO victim do not want to prove his innocence and bad intent of person who made complaint. 
He do not realize that he is submitting legal documents based on lies and one day (soon) he will be very sorry for what he stated. Even eBay will eventually have enough of that and his account will be closed.

Internet is full of stories of sellers who were VeROed by competiton. There is very simple way how to put a stop to all this. Meaning you are 100% right you did not violated copyright rights.

Testywolfe is still here checking this thread several times a day so that is how he found this auction and promptly bought it out. We all know why he did so.


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## zzyyddrruuttee

Dear forum members,

I really apologize about what's happened.

I haven't sent files to testywolfe just left him feedback couse now is processing of investigation.

Had i been given the chance as sir Palladium said, i'd will be very happy to donate 50% of profit to this forum. Together with sir Palladium care about my behavior on ebay marketplace, i think we could help this forum be more popular and earn some money for forum growth and development. I hope that more people know about this business field and this forum, more we can find intelligent congenials from over the world and more we can share our experience and find things we don't know yet.

I know this idea is pretty puerile but i think that it's worth to try.


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## metatp

metatp said:


> Interesting. Sarlonde sold the items he was selling to testywolfe.
> 
> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=testywolfe&ftab=FeedbackAsBuyer


I meant this post as an indictment against testywolf.


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## butcher

I just received an email about the rolling eye's I posted above, (I think it may have been perceived I meant something, I did not).

I just want to say I am in support of doing anything we can to stop these thieves from taking a mans hard work and trying to get paid for work they have not done.

Anything I can do to help stop this let me know, I would be glad to help, I would like to dip his hide in hot tar cook it some, and then feather him, just for starters.


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## patnor1011

I have sent few pm to Sarlonde regarding listings, he did not reply so I want to show him something. Note second sentence in red color. Even that files or books are free to read they are are certainly not free to sell unless you do have author or creator permission. So thing that he do not accept responsibility regarding any copyright is just him saying so. Not sufficient according to law. Just want to point that to him, that he may have problem in future if somebody will recognize his work or picture.


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## zzyyddrruuttee

Hello sir Patnor and other forum members,

I have replied you earlier but seems that you do not get my messages.

I have deleted all information relates with this forum.

Please don't judge me, i just started and do not know how to write correctly some information.

I have written that all these files are free to read.. ect. And mostly i'm working and trying to creat everything by myself. Some photos are taken from google, and files are freely no author of them.

Could you please tell me what i'm doing wrong and i will corect all mistakes.

And please all these forum members, don't judge me, i just started and i need advices how to do everything that everyone would be lucky.

With all respect, Sarlonde.


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## rusty

zzyyddrruuttee said:


> Hello sir Patnor and other forum members,
> 
> I have replied you earlier but seems that you do not get my messages.
> 
> I have deleted all information relates with this forum.
> 
> Please don't judge me, i just started and do not know how to write correctly some information.
> 
> I have written that all these files are free to read.. ect. And mostly i'm working and trying to creat everything by myself. Some photos are taken from google, and files are freely no author of them.
> 
> Could you please tell me what i'm doing wrong and i will corect all mistakes.
> 
> And please all these forum members, don't judge me, i just started and i need advices how to do everything that everyone would be lucky.
> 
> With all respect, Sarlonde.



You'll have to excuse the boys, once they get onto a rant they have tunnel vision. On behalf of the GRF I accept your apology.

Best Regards
rusty


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## samuel-a

Sarlonde

welcome to the forum.

I understand your need to produce income and that you are fresh at this. 
So here's a little advice to start: When it comes to copyrights, if you didn't produced it yourself, it is not yours to sell or distribute. simple as that.


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## zzyyddrruuttee

Thank you sir and other forum members for great advices.

I will do my best to become as possible better seller in future.

I think these all lessons i had protected me from a big problems in future.

I have fully understood what members tryied to say me and i will do my best not repeat the mistakes i have made.

With all respect for all forum members, Sarlonde.


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## Palladium

I really like this guy here! Correct me if i'm wrong, but as long as he reads the material and writes the papers from his own knowledge after reading the work, in his own words without quoting it verbatim, then i wouldn't have a problem with him compiling information and selling it ( The free stuff ). That's what authors do all the time. The man should be compensated for his time and effort and the work that goes into it. The whole purpose of the forum is to get the correct knowledge of refining out there into the hands of the people who have never been able to access it because the industry has been so secretive about it. I don't agree with what testy and the others are doing, but at least this guy is actually trying to do the right thing and be open about it. We are suppose the be the most informative and correct source available on the net for refining. I still say let the guy be an approved and indorsed author of GRF information to combat the others out there who won't give a dam and will sell it anyway. And you know how i am about not selling things and information being free. Any thoughts? It's your guys information to. Just kicking it around.


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## zzyyddrruuttee

Question is whoes is buying these guides. People who are interested in this field. 

They could find this free information easily if they want, just need to use google search. I can send them links with all these guides without files sharing. We could say, that i'm selling my time i wasted to find them correct information. When they get this information pack, they feel very satisfied about this and if we're talking about sir Palladium guides ( i have deleted them all now), they see signs of this forum and i think they will join there in future and give us a lot of ideas about what we do not know yet or what we are doing wrong in some cases. This is very good promotion for us because we will attract targeted customer groups.

How other forum members think about that?

_Sorry for language mistakes i have made._


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## zzyyddrruuttee

We were spent a lot of time and money to find them for you. Many of catalogs are highly rated of other readers.

*We are selling our time to find appropriate and valuable information in this field.

Anyway you can find all these guides on the internet but it takes a lot of time, you know it.*


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## Harold_V

Palladium said:


> I really like this guy here! Correct me if i'm wrong, but as long as he reads the material and writes the papers from his own knowledge after reading the work, in his own words without quoting it verbatim, then i wouldn't have a problem with him compiling information and selling it ( The free stuff ). That's what authors do all the time. The man should be compensated for his time and effort and the work that goes into it. The whole purpose of the forum is to get the correct knowledge of refining out there into the hands of the people who have never been able to access it because the industry has been so secretive about it. I don't agree with what testy and the others are doing, but at least this guy is actually trying to do the right thing and be open about it. We are suppose the be the most informative and correct source available on the net for refining. I still say let the guy be an approved and indorsed author of GRF information to combat the others out there who won't give a dam and will sell it anyway. And you know how i am about not selling things and information being free. Any thoughts? It's your guys information to. Just kicking it around.


Man, have you ever improved!
Well done, Ralph. 
Harold


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## Anonymous

My thoughts on making money off of free content may surprise you and you may want to rethink things. I'll explain...... I am also an entrepreneur and I've been making money online since the early 90's. Here what you *should* be doing with your pdf file.

Below is what you and EVERY person giving away FREE pdf files should be doing this right now...... Watch this.... the money can really start rolling in if you need it, and who doesn't.

*No# 1.* Take your .pdf files and embed {placeholders} meant to change only certain parts of a document. After you do that you can allow certain RIGHTS to your pdf files for a FEE. Below are the RIGHTS you can place to your pdf files and get compensated for it AND at the same time, allow others to sell them too.

*GIVEAWAY RIGHTS (GR)* - Giveaway rights are rights that you give to others to simply give them away. They aren't allowed to sell the pdf files, but can be used for motivation and incentives for people to join a membership site, purchase something or simply signup for a newsletter. Remember, Giveaway Rights are meant to be incentive driven.

*RESELL RIGHTS (RR)* - Resell rights are when you allow others to resell the pdf files. Many resell rights products do not allow for that product to be given away, and many of them do allow you for them to be given away. 

*MASTER RESELL RIGHTS (MRR)* - Master Resell Rights allow you to do up to 3 things. 1) Give the product away, 2) sell the product, 3) allow others to sell the product. 

*PRIVATE LABEL RIGHTS (PLR)* - With Private Label Rights you can do all of the above, plus allow the product to be customized with the other persons information. 


*No# 2.*With the *GIVEAWAY RIGHTS* you allow others to distribute your content for FREE and all of your information is left intact, like name, email address, website url and any other information you don't want changed on the pdf file.

With the *RESELL RIGHTS* you usually allow the person to have one bit of information that can be customized. For example: their name, or their email address or their affiliate no# or whatever single bit of information you allow. But normally, it's just one bit of information you would allow to be customized. Also, with many Resell Rights products, they aren't allowed to be given away, but must be sold. Sometimes, depending on the author of the product they will allow you give the product away as long as it's part of something that someone is purchasing from you, be it a membership or a service, information or product.

With the *MASTER RESELL RIGHTS* you allow others to sell and (or) giveaway your product and you can do what all the others rights above can do (except PRIVATE LABEL RIGHTS). There are usually more customizable fields a person can embed with their own information. Also note though, that with the MRR, even though you can customize it with information, they still normally contain some information that leads back to the author of the product.

With the *PRIVATE LABEL RIGHTS* you usually can customize it with everything imaginable, like names, phone no#'s url's email addresses. Many PLR allow you to remove the author's information completely from the file or product.

*HERE'S WHERE THE MONEY CAN START ROLLING IN!!!* This is just an example and the dollar amounts are just a round about price tag that *RIGHTS* pdf files sell for.

*a.* You allow others to giveaway your pdf files for FREE. Remember, as long as your information is left intact and the pdf wasn't modified or altered, you're getting exposure.

*b.* Offer the Resell Rights for a small amount ($5 - $13). The person can sell the pdf file and give it away. This file too has all your information on it and it brings you more exposure. The benefit to the buyer is that they're allowed to sell it. 

*c.* Offer the Master Resell Rights for around $27-$39. This file can allow for some information to be embedded into it and at the same time allow the buyer to also give it away.

*d.* Offer the Private Label Rights for around $49 - $79. Take note that with these rights, over 99.9% of products allow for the buyer to completely remove all of your information.. hence the phrase (Private Label).

If you followed this outline, using the dollar amounts listed as an example, you would make anywhere from $81 - $131 per pdf file. If you update or revise the file, you can offer small update fees. These are just examples, but these prices are what you can realistically collect if you offer resell rights to your pdf files.

*Note:* This is not meant to be a complete informational suggestion, but just to show anyone with pdf files the potential income that's just waiting for the person to make their move, and put it into action. Trust... it works! 

*On an ending note: *The most profitable product sold on the Internet and probably in the world itself is "information". People WILL and DO pay for information. If you don't want to sell information and just give it away, you could have hundreds and even thousands distributing your stuff if you allow them to, leaving you with other tasks, and not to mention the extra money going into your PayPal account everyday. 

Since information thievery is rampant all over the world and on the Internet, do your best to recoup something from your hard work. Since they're going to steal it anyway, why not get a portion of that hard work back into your pockets.

Hope this helps!


Kevin


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## Palladium

Very informative Ken!


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## Dan72ccx

Hi all
Whay not report him on eBay ??? and all item will be taken out by eBay admin
I now it's free to lern from it, but not for selling I am right ???
Regards Dan


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## joem

Does the video in this page belong to a member? I'm sure I've seen it here.
http://dumbledore.hubpages.com/hub/Recyclers-Recover-Gold-from-E-scrap-Gold-Fingers
hehehe


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## rusty

joem said:


> Does the video in this page belong to a member? I'm sure I've seen it here.
> http://dumbledore.hubpages.com/hub/Recyclers-Recover-Gold-from-E-scrap-Gold-Fingers
> hehehe



hehehe is right on the money, if that video was linked to the gold forum it's no longer available the owner has disabled linking. I thought youtube was all about sharing ones work under under Creative Commons.


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## samuel-a

As far as i know, the guy who took that video is an active member on ScienceMadness.org, but not here.


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## galenrog

This has got to be the only multipage thread I actually read all entries and looked at all links. Absolutely fascinating. Personally I think Patnor101 did a marvelous job of compiling the information and making it free use. Although I am learning a lot here, I doubt that I would have the patience to put this guide together. He has my profound thanks. Yes, I downloaded it and printed several copies. All but the master file on my hard drive and a master paper copy have additional handwritten notes to help me understand the process better. I think the bozos who are trying to profit off free use data by selling what are essentially plagiarized copies need a little tough love from someone who really cares.

Whatever direction this tale turns, Pat has earned kudos from me.

Again, thanks for the guide.

Galen.


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## butcher

I agree, Pat has been a great member here, he worked out the process and shared it with others, and then some low life comes along and takes pat's workand attempts to make money or to profit off patnor 1011's hard work and generosity.

This guy will never get anywhere in life, until he faces the fact he is a loser, and does right by others.

While Pat will go on to do good for others and himself.


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## metatp

I feel sorry for the petty guy. It must be very sad and lonely to be testywolfe. Glad I'm not him, but wish I could help him in what must be a pitiful life.


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## Irons2

metatp said:


> I feel sorry for the petty guy. It must be very sad and lonely to be testywolfe. Glad I'm not him, but wish I could help him in what must be a pitiful life.



I noticed the other Day that Testywolf is still flogging his stolen material on fleabay.


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## samuel-a

metatp said:


> I feel sorry for the petty guy. It must be very sad and lonely to be testywolfe. Glad I'm not him, but wish I could help him in what must be a pitiful life.



Many prisons have rehabilitation programs for their inmates... he definitely should be in one.


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## patnor1011

Don't feel sorry for him, he has no pitiful life, on the contrary he has a easy life making money out of other people work. He figured it out how to earn without doing any job. But eventually he will be exposed by his buyers - notice his feedback. Ebay finally acknowledged my rights so I will just put it everywhere he do to prevent him from making much of profit. He will just pull another one and make money out of someone else work.


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## metatp

patnor1011 said:


> Don't feel sorry for him, he has no pitiful life, on the contrary he has a easy life making money out of other people work. He figured it out how to earn without doing any job. But eventually he will be exposed by his buyers - notice his feedback. Ebay finally acknowledged my rights so I will just put it everywhere he do to prevent him from making much of profit. He will just pull another one and make money out of someone else work.


That to me is a pitiful and said life. He can't enjoy life like others because he cannot do anything on his own. He has no pride in his own work so he has to leach off of others to has a pseudo life, which again to me is pitiful. He is just existing and not living. How pitiful.

I like the rehabilitation in prison idea.


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## its-all-a-lie

This is one of testywolfe's cd's from ebay. If any of "his" methods are incorrect or if anything has been left out please correct him or delete this post.


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## samuel-a

its-all-a-lie said:


> This is one of testywolfe's cd's from ebay. If any of "his" methods are incorrect or if anything has been left out please correct him or delete this post.




LOL This is so funny...
It is a copy of the written insrtuctions that comes with iShor's kit (don't ask how i know...)

Copying Shor's instructions... man this is so pathetic...


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## patnor1011

He even attempted to digitally sign that master piece he created from shor manual. Go with browser over digital signature it will tell you: Certification invalid document altered. :mrgreen:


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## its-all-a-lie

It too him 5 days to put the disc in the mail to me and another 4 days for me to recieve it, does anyone have any ideas for the negative feedback he is gonna recieve from me? I am open to any and all suggestions :twisted:


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## Palladium

Them folks hate me over at Shor so it won't do me any good, but i was thinking maybe someone needs to send them an email and get them on his but about selling their copyrighted materials. He even left the word Subzero in the pdf. Rotfl
Just when i think i have seen it all. :roll:


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## patnor1011

I would love to see this one: Recover gold from Integrated Circuit Chips easy & fastest way scap gold recovery from testywolfe.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Recover-gold-from-Integrated-Circuit-Chips-easy-fastest-way-scap-gold-recovery-/140829973281?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ca1edb21

That is copy of my guide which I do have here on forum and in my signature. I have copy he was selling 2 months ago but he revised and "added lil more info"
Well if anyone bought that let me know if it is still the same - copy of my own guide. PM will be cool.


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## joem

I have a feeling:
being that this forum and shor do not agree they probably would not do much in this arguement of who owns what because I see their advertisement in the document.


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## patnor1011

But that do not change anything on fact that he is a thief because he claims that those are his own books and processes and his late fathers. :twisted:


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## Geo

hey Pat, people like this guy that tries to prosper by deception will ultimately fail. he will build his house of lies so big that it cant stand up on its own weight and will come crashing down around him. if you let your anger turn to hatred, it will consume you in a way that will make him a winner even if he loses everything.


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## Palladium

Geo said:


> if you let your anger turn to hatred, it will consume you in a way that will make him a winner even if he loses everything.



I have preached that same line for years Geo. Don't let another persons action dictate your actions or thinking. To get inside an opponents head even in the littlest bit allows a person to gain control of your actions, thoughts, or emotions.


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## patnor1011

True, but I am not really angry or mad any more, I take him as joke.


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## samuel-a

patnor1011 said:


> True, but I am not really angry or mad any more, I take him as joke.




Indeed a joke..
I can't understand why he keep doing this... obviously he is not making money anymore from our content or making just a fraction of what he used too before we noticed the theft. Just look at his feedback scams, he needs to buy all of this positive feedback.

I think this dude have some serious mental health issues :/


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## Palladium

http://www.boycottowl.com/Facebook/215

Sure is a lot of we wants in there. Old testy ain't afraid of the big boys. 
Don't make him Boycott the GRF to! :twisted: Did that man just say he was running a pot farm on Facebook? Well there's your answer right there. :mrgreen: 

_*

Boycott Demands against Facebook
We want a customer service that can handle our issues as they arise!

We need live agents, or toll free # to talk to a live agents!

We want all advertisments that promise us extra game cash to work, and give us the credit once we complete the advertisment!

Give customers there game cash for the advertisments they completed and never recieved there credit( EXAMPLE I HAVE COMPLETED IN LAST WEEK 11 ADVERTISMENTS ON GAME APP POT FARM I SHOULD HAVE RECIEVED A TOTAL OF 742 POT BUCKS I NEVER GOT ) THIS IS WRONG AND TECHNICALLY IS ADVERTISMENT FRAUD IT NEEDS CORRECTED BEFORE LAWSUITS START FLYING AND FACEBOOK IS NO MORE!*_


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## Oz

Pot bucks, really? 

Do you all realize that by typing his name and complaining here on this forum, that you are elevating his Google ranking?

Cease and desist posting unless there is a new threat instead of propagating his plagiaristic drivel. 

I agree with Pat, he is a joke. Stop helping him accomplish his goals.


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## its-all-a-lie

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=testywolfe&&_trksid=p2047675.l2560&rt=nc&iid=140829938564&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller 


Think that should do the trick :mrgreen:


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## samuel-a

its-all-a-lie said:


> Think that should do the trick :mrgreen:



oh...  they will soon remove it as you direct users to an outside link...


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## 9kuuby9

Sam someone is stealing your content! [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbJ2VuuvS3g[/youtube] :shock:


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## samuel-a

try and play it now 8)


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## 9kuuby9

samuel-a said:


> try and play it now 8)




Haha great job on copyrighting it :mrgreen: 


Regards, Ben


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## samuel-a

Thank you for the heads up Ben


----------

