# precipitated gold mixed in with black sand concentrates



## vivalalynn (Nov 19, 2012)

hi everyone, i ve learned so much from you all and appreciate your knowledge. hopefully, you can help me out on this one. our precipitated gold was thrown out into our waste bucket with the filters on accident. the waste bucket was then poured off into another bucket that was about a quarter of the way full of black sand concentrates (5 gallon buckets, 38 grams of material) and mixed thoroughly before it was realized what happened. Is the gold obtainable? How do go about pulling it out? any help would be appreciated. yes, it was me who did it and yes im an idiot.


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## Geo (Nov 19, 2012)

thats a real mess. id say process the concentrates with the extra gold just like you would un-enriched black sand concentrates.


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## vivalalynn (Nov 20, 2012)

thanx. thats what my instincts tell me but alot of this stuff floats or rather it suspends it seems. maybe my solution is too dense. i don't know how to tell whats powdered gold and whats unmagnetic black sand or whats just plain trash for that matter. is there a chemical process that i can use here or should i try and melt it all? any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## Anonymous (Nov 21, 2012)

If you haven't done so already, you should first classify your concentrates, that way it'll be easier to collect your goods once you deal with each classified batch separately. If it is already classified, then you should get a magnet to remove all of the black sands. 

Oh, and by the way, you should do this with your concentrates dry, and not wet.

If you can post a photo of what you have, it may help out a bit more. 


Kevin


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## eeTHr (Nov 21, 2012)

The problem seems to be that the precipitated gold particles are much smaller than the usual "flour" gold which can be separated with a wave table or blue bowl, and so forth.


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## Anonymous (Nov 21, 2012)

eeTHr said:


> The problem seems to be that the precipitated gold particles are much smaller than the usual "flour" gold which can be separated with a wave table or blue bowl, and so forth.


That would work too. I have a 4-rack classifier and I believe the mesh size on the last one is 60. It will let only powder get through it. If it's finer than powder, then he probably will need to get either a 80, 100 or 120 mesh screen to sift through it.

But it appears that one of the problems is the black sands, and the best way to get them out of the way is to dry out the concentrates completely, and then use a magnet to get them out. 

I have some concentrates that I classified, and it makes a visible difference when the black sands are removed, which makes it much easier to see the gold.

The other option I see would be to crush everything to a powder, sift it, and whatever don't sift, crush it until it does, then add, I believe 3 parts flux to the concentrates then heat the "one shot" crucible until it melts everything, then pour in into a mold, and let it cool. After it cools, it should be like glass. Once you break the cooled down flux mix, the gold and (or) any other metals should have formed into one or more pieces of solid metals at the bottom of the mix.

Kevin


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## herbbartley (Nov 21, 2012)

I have a lot of experience processing black sands. I just sold a lump that I made from black sand to a local jeweler. He put it on the meter that jewelers us for scrap gold and it went off the chart, over 20k for sure. He was impressed. Somebody already said it, but I am going to repeat it, classify. Classify, classify, classify. There is no limit to what size gold you can gravity concentrate if you classify correctly. If your precipitates are of such a small diameter, run that half-bucket of black sand over a screen that will allow the precipitates to pass, but not most of the black sand. If you can get it down to about the size of an assay you can just mix that with some assay flux and when you get all done your gold will be in a button. As for the bucket of black sand; now you have eliminated everything below a certain size. You need to further concentrate the black sand to make super concentrate. I use a poop-tube; corrugated plastic sewer pipe, it works great. Once again, you are looking for about a cupful of really concentrated material. Put it with some assay flux and perform and assay on it. At the end you will have your gold in a button. Of course the gold has to be there. If your black sands don't have that much, it can't put it in.


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## vivalalynn (Nov 22, 2012)

thank you all for your time and the excellent advice. what i've done however is filtered, filtered, filtered, and filtered some more. i then threw it all into a hydrochloric/clorox mix which i know i'll have to filter reapeatedly as well. will keep you all posted thank you again.


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## herbbartley (Nov 22, 2012)

Good luck. That kind of seems like a hard way to go. I always try to keep in mind how much time I am spending. Even if there is good gold if it takes too long to get it, you might be better off picking up cans. I often throw mid-grades and stuff that I don't feel like working at the time in my black sand bucket. It just enriches the black sands. I might have e-scrap mixed in, it doesn't matter to me unless I am doing a test.


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## vivalalynn (Nov 25, 2012)

hello all, just to let you know and to find out a little more information, too please. i believe i recovered most of the gold that i had thrown into the black sands and i am processing it in stages. my first batch looks promising, but the hydro/chlor solution looks a little unusual. instead of yellow there is a deep orange tint, almost a reddish color to it. does anybody know why and will boiling the solution help it ? should i precipitate the gold first (i'll be using smb), im not sure what my next step should be. any help would be appreciated. thanx


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## Harold_V (Nov 25, 2012)

vivalalynn said:


> i believe i recovered most of the gold that i had thrown into the black sands and i am processing it in stages. my first batch looks promising, but the hydro/chlor solution looks a little unusual. instead of yellow there is a deep orange tint, almost a reddish color to it. does anybody know why and will boiling the solution help it ?


Boil the solution? 

Why?

Haven't you lost enough gold already?

What would you hope to gain by boiling? (Surely you've seen me be critical of folks who talk about boiling aqua regia solutions?)

The solution is a darker color because you most likely have dissolves considerable iron, along with the gold (if any. You may not have, as the base material may be precipitating the gold, assuming it was dissolved. It may not have been!)

Have you tested with stannous chloride? 

Harold


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## vivalalynn (Nov 25, 2012)

thanks for your time and reply, i asked about boiling because i didn't know. i haven't been on the forum long, but have searched it quite a bit. i've started hoke, but its slow reading. yes, i have tested with stannous chloride with the results being a very darkish somewhat purplish color. i added stump out, got some fumes and some reaction with a yellow/brown bubbling and hissing when added, but there seems to be no precipitate, so far. in the morning. hopefully there will be some visible gold. thanx again


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## butcher (Nov 25, 2012)

With the amount of iron you most likely have in solution with gold, cementing the gold out of solution with copper, would be better than using stump out.
Iron in solutions can give several different colors to solutions yellow, green, red to brown.


When I have had a stannous chloride test come out very dark on a Q tip, and it was so dark I could not tell if it was violet or black, I will hold the Q tip test over steam coming off an evaporating gold chloride solution, the Q-tip then changes to violet when loaded with gold. (I haven't tried this yet but it might work just holding the Q-tip over fumes evolving fumes from an open HCl bottle, may also lighten color)


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## Harold_V (Nov 26, 2012)

vivalalynn said:


> thanks for your time and reply, i asked about boiling because i didn't know. i haven't been on the forum long, but have searched it quite a bit. i've started hoke, but its slow reading. yes, i have tested with stannous chloride with the results being a very darkish somewhat purplish color. i added stump out, got some fumes and some reaction with a yellow/brown bubbling and hissing when added, but there seems to be no precipitate, so far. in the morning. hopefully there will be some visible gold. thanx again


If you boil in open atmosphere, the net result will be to lose the gold, as it's carried off in the vapors. 
The reaction indicates a presence of free nitric acid. If you hope to precipitate chemically, the solution must be evaporated. DO NOT CONFUSE EVAPORATION WITH BOILING. Evaporation is accomplished at a lower temperature, one whereby the solution DOES NOT BOIL. 

If nowhere else, on this board, do not use boil to describe evaporation. I get my nose completely out of joint when I see that in print, and I'm inclined to be less than kind, as it undoes all the hard work I've done as a contributor. 

Butcher's suggestion to recover the values on copper may be a good idea, although I recovered gold from such solutions with no particular issues. Key to success is in eliminating the free nitric, and having a solution that lends itself well to filtration. A prewash with HCl (prior to dissolving the values) often ensures free filtration. 

I'm not impressed by your comments on reading Hoke. If you'd read the book until you understood what it said, you wouldn't be asking this question. 

Read her book completely, then read it again. The information you will glean will spell the difference between success and struggling. If you short change the book, expect to achieve a short-changed version of learning. It's that simple. 

Read Hoke.

Read Hoke again.

Harold

Edit:

Did I mention you should read Hoke?


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## maynman1751 (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm sorry Harold. He said that he used HCl/Cl to try to dissolve the gold, so there will be no nitric involved. However, he may still have excess chlorine. I am not qualified to advise beyond this.


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## butcher (Nov 26, 2012)

Chlorine can be eliminated with heating; it will not stay in a hot solution long.

If you just have fumes coming off of your heated solutions these fumes can be tested for chlorine gas, by pouring a bottle cap full of ammonia solution and holding it close to the vapors, if there is chlorine in the vapor it will mix with the ammonia vapor from the capful of ammonia and form a white cloud of ammonium chloride smoke.

Chlorine and iron oxides from black sand will put some of the iron into solution with the HCl, pushing some or most of the gold out of solution.

Also heating the remaining iron oxides (black sand) strongly can form insoluble iron hydroxides (usually red rusty looking in color) very hard to dissolve in acids.

I am also glad to see Harold post, His wisdom has been missed lately, and his advice against boiling off solutions is very important, as well as reading Hoke's book, her book if understood teaches concepts that are not easily understood from just reading it once, these concepts can be related to most any process in recovering or refining of precious metals, and as Harold stated "will spell the difference between success and struggling" success or failure.


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## Harold_V (Nov 27, 2012)

maynman1751 said:


> I'm sorry Harold. He said that he used HCl/Cl to try to dissolve the gold, so there will be no nitric involved. However, he may still have excess chlorine. I am not qualified to advise beyond this.


Thanks kindly for the correction. I apparently failed to read the fine details.  Butcher has addressed the issue nicely, however. 

Harold


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## maynman1751 (Nov 27, 2012)

You are welcome Harold! As Butcher said, It's nice to have your valuable input at any time. I feel that you are a major part to the success of this forum. No bull!


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## vivalalynn (Nov 30, 2012)

thank you all for your advice and your time. She thanks you very much, gentleman. please forgive that i started this little hobby with a friend in his back yard, long before i had ever heard of this website or heard the name Hoke. i appreciate your help and your candor. this forum is full of wonderful, hands-on advice from people that i feel are extremely knowledgeable and have an honest desire to share and help others. i imagine that its very frustrating when new people ask for answers when they didn't bother to even search for the question. nobody wants to repeat themselves constantly. i get that.. the short while that ive been here on the forum i have read many times the replies of harold, a very obviously intelligent man, whom im sure is a wonderful person. however, i am not here to impress anyone or anybody. i also feel like i had a situation that was somewhat rare, i guess. i know i certainly needed help. i appreciate that help that i've gotten. many times, what i've read instead was pompous, stuck up, bulls*%t. many times people have come onto this forum, people that don't speak english that well, that don't have everyday access to the internet. whatever the case, i dont give a shit about what impresses you harold. kick me off whatever, you're rude. people come here and ask for help and what they get from you is stuck up im a better refiner than you attitude. i dont need it. maybe its not intentional, its definitely habitual. have a nice day all


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## Anonymous (Nov 30, 2012)

vivalalynn said:


> thank you all for your advice and your time. She thanks you very much, gentleman. please forgive that i started this little hobby with a friend in his back yard, long before i had ever heard of this website or heard the name Hoke. i appreciate your help and your candor. this forum is full of wonderful, hands-on advice from people that i feel are extremely knowledgeable and have an honest desire to share and help others. i imagine that its very frustrating when new people ask for answers when they didn't bother to even search for the question. nobody wants to repeat themselves constantly. i get that.. the short while that ive been here on the forum i have read many times the replies of harold, a very obviously intelligent man, whom im sure is a wonderful person. however, i am not here to impress anyone or anybody. i also feel like i had a situation that was somewhat rare, i guess. i know i certainly needed help. i appreciate that help that i've gotten. many times, what i've read instead was pompous, stuck up, bulls*%t. many times people have come onto this forum, people that don't speak english that well, that don't have everyday access to the internet. whatever the case, i dont give a shit about what impresses you harold. kick me off whatever, you're rude. people come here and ask for help and what they get from you is stuck up im a better refiner than you attitude. i dont need it. maybe its not intentional, its definitely habitual. have a nice day all


We all tried to help you. What you've said is rude and is uncalled for. Why would you say the things you said if you want someone to help you? 

Yes, we all get frustrated wanting to get something done and it's not done in the manner we expect. You know what I hear on this forum often?

"Read Hoke's book"
"Use the search button"
"Read the threads"
.... and on, and on and on.

you're taking frustrations out on someone that has contributed to this forum millions of times over, and don't ask for anything in return, EXCEPT, to READ, READ, LEARN, READ, and LEARN....... then ask questions. We all ask questions. I do all the time, but at least I don't insult the answers given to me. They're insulting because they're true. Listen to the words that are said to you and you'll learn. I'm still learning... to this very day. I haven't refined a single gram of silver or gold yet..... but I have all that I need and I'm learning and taking advice for the pioneers of this site and trade of fortune.

I hope you understand that people are helping others all the time here and it's our duty to search, read AND understand what is being posted here. No one is going to spoon-feed you the information you want or even need. You MUST earn it. Earn it. I know you want answers, but this will get you the answer you never want to hear, .... and it's called DENIAL. 

Stop being rude to people that give their precious time(s) to help others. Harold could have said "Forget him... I'm processing some gold.... I'll get back to him later". He could have had that attitude.

Be patient, and be POLITE to those that give you advice, wisdom, information, formulas, etc,... 

Don't kill yourself with stupidity, because stupidity can kill you (mixing the wrong acids/chemicals together)

I did give a reply to what you can do to recovery your precious metals.

Have you tried ANY of the methods anyone gave?.... or are you just upset with the responses you're getting? We didn't screw up your concentrates..... you said *YOU DID IT!*...

We live and we learn.... Love you bro.... don't be so hard on the FREE help here. You'll thank them one day.

Kevin


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## vivalalynn (Nov 30, 2012)

sir, i have tried all of these methods and am getting results. thank you all. many times i have seen an new enthusiast on this forum be talked down to and told read hoke. great advice, you're so smart. im here to impress nobody. if you're here on this forum and others i and others assume you are there to share, if you choose to. if all you can do is condescend and give your advice as if the person you're answering is beneath you and your intelligence, then keep it to yourself. if you can't gladly help, don't bother. i don't give a damn what impresses anybody's smug ass. thank you all. im done here.


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## Anonymous (Nov 30, 2012)

vivalalynn said:


> sir, i have tried all of these methods and am getting results. thank you all. many times i have seen an new enthusiast on this forum be talked down to and told read hoke. great advice, you're so smart. im here to impress nobody. if you're here on this forum and others i and others assume you are there to share, if you choose to. if all you can do is condescend and give your advice as if the person you're answering is beneath you and your intelligence, then keep it to yourself. if you can't gladly help, don't bother. i don't give a damn what impresses anybody's smug ass. thank you all. im done here.


Glad we could help! Now pass it on to someone else! Ironic though, 10 posts and you've copped an attitude already. WOW!!! I'm literally laughing myself silly.

Lighten up!


Kevin


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## jimdoc (Nov 30, 2012)

vivalalynn said:


> sir, i have tried all of these methods and am getting results. thank you all. many times i have seen an new enthusiast on this forum be talked down to and told read hoke. great advice, you're so smart. im here to impress nobody. if you're here on this forum and others i and others assume you are there to share, if you choose to. if all you can do is condescend and give your advice as if the person you're answering is beneath you and your intelligence, then keep it to yourself. if you can't gladly help, don't bother. i don't give a damn what impresses anybody's smug ass. thank you all. im done here.




Blah, blah, blah. Goodbye!
And don't come back!


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## butcher (Dec 1, 2012)

With people hungry to learn, we do not need this kind of trouble Jim is right, he is gone.


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