# my gold teeth!



## slickdogg

Ok guys and gals before i ask my question, i will tell you my story because i know some will be wondering why the hell do you have or want all gold teeth,

Last year a week before christmas i was in a life threatening motorcycle accident, before you ask yes i was wearing a helmet...... but it came off, i didn't have the chin strap snapped, a young female college student text messaging on her phone ran a red light and ran me over,
i had fractures everywhere bascular skull fractures, sinus fracture, orbital fracture, csf spinal fluid leakage,........ you get the point. I was in bad shape, my kids didn't even reconize me they were sceard to come near me.
Well thats how i lost most of my teeth, so i decided if i was going to look ugly and all scared up from brain surgery's, i may as well look ugly and silly with a mouth full of gold teeth :lol: 

Enough about me, let me get to my question........ my gold teeth have always been nice and shiney untill one day i tried to soak them in some mouthwash...whitening.....junk.. some generic mouth wash it turned my gold teeth dam-near all black. 
I spent hours trying to clean and polish them.... i had to use some polish that i use on car parts called *mothers* . It got them nice and shiney, however i really dont want to use harsh chemical that are dangerous........ before i put them back in my mouth i washed them over and over with dishsoap and toothpaste. 
The problem i have now is after a week or two they start to tarnish slightly back to the black color.

I clean them daily with tooth paste and tooth brush, however that doesnt keep them from slowly turning the blackish color in certian spots.....the only way to get rid of the black is with the *automotive* polish.
I never had this problem untill i soaked them in that mouthwash.

Is there a way to prevent this?
what causes this?
what is the best, safest way to clean them and get them to shine?


Thanks in advance ya'll :mrgreen:


----------



## 4metals

I'm far from qualified to talk about orthodontics but I suspect there are 2 possibilities.

1. the alloy is not a single layer of gold alloy, rather different alloy layers bonded together, the teeth had a protective layer which you removed and the top layer currently has a high percentage of base metal. When you clean them, do they taste metallic, or did they always taste metallic?

2. you should read Hoke, refine this set yourself to maximize return, apply the money towards a new set. Next time skip the whitener, which is probably oxidizing the base metals exposed on the surface.


----------



## philddreamer

Can you take them back to the orthodontist & have him or her check them out?

Phil


----------



## slickdogg

> do they taste metallic, or did they always taste metallic



i cant remember if they tasted metallic when i first got them, however yes when i give them a good polishing now, i taste matellic afterwards.



> you should read Hoke



:shock: ive read hoke :lol: i've thought about refining them myself.........dont want to be toothless during the refining process :lol: 



> Can you take them back to the orthodontist & have him or her check them out



Phil, i would have already done that but he relocated his business to dallas, however
ive tried to talk to another orthodontist here .... they want me to make an appointment
didnt really want to pay there high fees to answer a few questions...followed by them telling me "we can make you a new set for only 7,000 bucks" 

phil, 4metals .......thankyou for your input


----------



## goldenchild

Something definately wrong here. The only thing that should be able to blacken them in the manner you spoke of is nitric acid. If you were able to get an exact wax replica of those teeth and supply the alloy I would probably be able to cast them. Or, I'm sure someone else on here could do it.


----------



## Anonymous

I would need some more input on this response,
the "blackish" color could be silver oxidizing.I would like to hear feedback on plating them in 24k.It is easy to find a place that does this,and it is a heck of a lot less expensive than replacing them with gold ones again.......of course there is one more option......process them and use the money to buy a normal set of dentures.Then you won't look so goofy,and you'll have some extra money in your pocket.If you use goldenchilds suggestion (above) you could always have a mold made from them prior to processing them,that way you wouldn't have to pay to have your mouth remolded.Just pay to have the porcelain replacements made.


----------



## slickdogg

I have an exact mold of them they made me so when I'm not wearing them I can put them on the mold.


----------



## Anonymous

slickdogg said:


> I have an exact mold of them they made me so when I'm not wearing them I can put them on the mold.


Then you have already started saving money.


----------



## slickdogg

I like the 24k plating idea
Is it safe to have plated material in your mouth?


----------



## glondor

I think 24 k plate would not be good. Too soft for teeth. You need an alloy of some type. Harold may know something about the gold alloys for teeth as he processed many gold teeth. My wife is looking in her dental books to see what she can find....


----------



## slickdogg

Thanks glondor 
let me know if she finds anything out 8)


----------



## glondor

Barbs books do say that all dental metal needs to be an alloy. 24 k is too soft. Typically a gold/ platinum/palladium alloy. Some base metals. If your current teeth are 24k plated perhaps you have worn the plating down to the base metal.


----------



## goldenchild

I cant see anyone who knew what they were doing plating teeth with ANY karat. Remember how quickly plated jewelry wears. Now think of the thousands of pounds of pressure your mouth sees everyday. The plating would be finished after one meal. 1/10 gold filled wouldnt even be close to sufficient.


----------



## glondor

The whole appliance needs to be gold alloy. Gold alloy will hold up. Many people have gold (alloy)fillings. I have 2 gold crowns that have been in my mouth for 30 years with no issues.


----------



## slickdogg

i dont know what karat they are. I don't think they could have been plated at least i hope not...... i paid a hella lot of money for them.... They were fine for around 4-5 months had no problems untill i soaked them in that *pre whitener brush rinse* crap when i pulled them out of the mouth wash they where all black ...... took for ever to polish them back to gold...... another thing let me explain a little better 
if i were to polish them now they would look amazing.....within a week in-between the teeth and the back of the teeth will start to tarnish ....and looks like...... (if you were to heat up a piece of metal then let it cool....you get that blueish weied color)... then by 2 weeks the spots will be almost black.


Thanks for taking the time to read my posts ya'll. 8) 8)


----------



## 4metals

They're definitely oxidizing and that is why you taste metal. What are the ingredients in the whitener? Did you consider contacting the manufacturer of the whitener? After all the problem started with them.


----------



## slickdogg

> What are the ingredients in the whitener



i dont know....tomorrow i will go to the store an get another bottle so i can see what ingredients are in it.



> Did you consider contacting the manufacturer of the whitener? After all the problem started with them



nope ..... should i try to call them, raise hell and try to get them to replace them?


----------



## butcher

Just my thoughts not suggesting anything:

This is an alloy of metals, probably high in gold and platinum group metals, with some base metals.

The base metals in this mixture of metals, has been oxidized (remember mixture of metals mixed well in melt), would it be possible to remove the base metals on surface outside layer (using nitric washing, or dilute chemical wash similar to making a gold button look better)? And thus leaving the more resistant metals like gold and pgm at the surface layer, making the surface more resistant to corrosion? Maybe even flame polishing afterwards?

We have members here that may have done this with jewelry that may be able to help with pros and cons of this thinking.


Slick Dogg, your a lucky man, seems your Angel was doing a good job. I too have survived what should have killed me and have somewhat of an understanding of what you have faced and the pain you will live with, I hope someone can help you to get your teeth shining again.


----------



## slickdogg

thankyou butcher for the kind words, as well as the information.


----------



## qst42know

Butcher are you referring to depletion guilding?

After that you might consider tumble burnishing with stainless media to close the porosity.

Many jewelers and dental labs should have the capability.


----------



## slickdogg

now where getting somewhere! :lol:


----------



## Harold_V

glondor said:


> Barbs books do say that all dental metal needs to be an alloy. 24 k is too soft. Typically a gold/ platinum/palladium alloy. Some base metals. If your current teeth are 24k plated perhaps you have worn the plating down to the base metal.


They aren't plated. Dental gold is an alloy of various components, as you alluded. The combination of platinum metals along with gold and traces of silver yield a very tough alloy. It's not good for jewelry, due to its toughness and weird color, but outstanding for the purpose for which it is alloyed. 

Silver does not oxidize easily---and would not be responsible for the darkening that has been mentioned unless something really weird is transpiring. The small amount of silver present should be well protected by the abundance of gold and platinum. That's not to suggest that the alloy used for these castings may not have been one of low gold content. The high price of gold in '80 lead to some alloys that were greatly reduced in gold content. 

The idea of casting these is insane. Making them is one thing, but making them to *fit* is quite another. The proper techniques must be employed to negate shrinkage, if nothing else. I'm not suggesting that it can't be done, but it could be a daunting task for a novice. 

Readers that have paid attention to my previous ravings likely understand that dental gold is the finest of all waste materials. It has the potential to yield 60% gold, plus the balance of material will contain platinum or palladium, if not both, to say nothing of a little silver. 

Harold


----------



## butcher

Maybe something here, Cleaning dental gold fixtures

http://books.google.com/books?id=ahwxAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA664&lpg=PA664&dq=cleaning+dental+gold+fixtures&source=bl&ots=xLzHXItdw-&sig=UYl4jYI1gYJWATKgZzeg-pCBjeA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZHb5TrqlMeGJiAK6xKCODQ&ved=0CHMQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=cleaning%20dental%20gold%20fixtures&f=false

http://www.google.com/#q=cleaning+dental+gold+fixtures&hl=en&rlz=1R2RNQN_enUS457&prmd=imvnsb&ei=ZHb5TrqlMeGJiAK6xKCODQ&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=665329a2f257563d&biw=1024&bih=535

With my dial up and computer loosing connection so much I could not reseach these.


qst42know, 
"Butcher are you referring to depletion gilding?"

I did not know what they call it but I believe jewelers can clean or restore gold that may have been used with household chemicals or damaged, 

I was hoping a jeweler might have some ideas,

I really do not know much in this area, but believe the surface may be depleted of base metals and pores closed through some type of polishing 

(Flame polishing seemed reason able to me), 

I even wondered if something like a past of sodium nitrate (maybe mixed with another paste like ammonium chloride) smeared on outside and torch run over them not melting whole metal but just heating the surface enough to remove oxide coating so the more resistant metal was predominantly the outer surface. Something similar to how people improve the looks of impure melted gold. 

We need Help, we need someone with more knowledgeable in this than me I was just hoping to spark some idea.


Edit to add: maybe try something on some old scrap dental gold, using the chemical that made these teeth oxidize, then experiment in cleaning the scrap dental gold up, to see what works well before messing with the teeth you need to use, (alloy may not be exact but it may help you find what works before making your teeth worse for the wear.

Another idea maybe you could try? (My dentist had a guy who made the gold teeth in the dentist office, I do not know the name for this smithy or mechanic who mixes and melts the metals), (I was able to talk to his assistant when I was at the dentist, waiting to have a cap refitted, he was a nice young fellow), maybe you can call the dentist office and ask to speak to his mechanic, smith or whatever they call these guy's. He may be willing to tell you how he would clean them up, and you may even find he will do it for a case of beer or in trade for something you know about (like an invite to the gold refining forum)Who knows.


----------



## nickvc

To remove oxides from jewellery castings they normally use a cyanide stripper but I hesitate to suggest this for teeth...perhaps a weak warm sulphuric acid dip would remove the oxides and then a polish with jewellers rouge? The only thing I'm not to sure about is if there are any base metal fittings which might react to the sulphuric.


----------



## qst42know

It would help if I spelled it right.  

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=7506#p68732

And the burnisher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JiPFv7TpYw&feature=related


----------



## goldenchild

I think an xrf reading may be in order before trying anything.


----------



## qst42know

I would think your dental records could be acquired irregardless of where they relocated to.

You can check your state regulations.

http://www.ada.org/sections/professionalResources/pdfs/dentalpractice_dental_records.pdf


----------



## goldenchild

qst42know said:


> I would think your dental records could be acquired irregardless of where they relocated to.
> 
> You can check your state regulations.
> 
> http://www.ada.org/sections/professionalResources/pdfs/dentalpractice_dental_records.pdf



qst42know,

Are you using irregardless in the context of in regards to or regardless of? :lol:


----------



## slickdogg

Thanks a bunch you guys for the ideas and info,
I'm going to call around today, see if I can find someone that can tell me exactly what metals were used to make these


----------



## Smack

Have you contacted your dentist? The people that made them could probably help the most. That insurance company for the girl should be footing the bill for everything right? Unless you didn't settle yet. Sorry to hear about the accident, hope your getting along fine.


----------



## slickdogg

> Have you contacted your dentist



ive tried they relocated to dallas i belive,
almost 90 miles from me i can,t find them or a number for them.



> That insurance company for the girl should be footing the bill for everything right?


she was driving with expired insurance...... no insurance.  


Smack, thankyou 8) 

other than a few scars, one from ear to ear where they cut my head open for the brain surgery
another scar on my face from my eye to mid cheek, orbital fracture. (plastic surgeon did excellent job)
missing teeth, no feeling on leftside of my face,
22 screws and 4 plates...... 
im great..... 
i get along pretty normal :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## qst42know

Have you tried contacting the State?

http://www.tsbde.state.tx.us/


----------



## slickdogg

qst42know,

nope i didnt know that was possible 
thanks 

Rickey


----------



## Rustjunkie

I hope I'm not out of line here but maybe the dental materials are not what you thought ........
I'm just a scrapper but maybe you can find a metal salvage yard in your area that has one of these http://www.quickshotxrf.com/handheld-xrf-analyzer
Then with the ingredient list on the mouth wash and the readout of the gun you can solve the mystery.
;?)


----------



## slickdogg

Rustjunkie said:


> I hope I'm not out of line here but maybe the dental materials are not what you thought



That would be a shame to find somthing like that out...
considering how much it cost to have these made. :shock:


----------

