# Best way to melt nickel at home?



## jimmy759 (Jul 10, 2007)

I have a small source of 99%+ pure nickel.

I was wondering what would be the best way to melt it all together and keep its purity. economically too.

As nickel has a high melting point approx 2651F.

Would just melting with a tourch work. Or would I need a hotter source of heat.

And also is there any other high nickel purity products.


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## aflacglobal (Jul 10, 2007)

Jimmy, while i was in the scrap business i ran across the same thing. A guy called me with a truck load of the material. 

They were turnings. If it is turnings then they have to be kept dry. It they get wet they form a oxidized skin. This will really screw up the melting process. Being as how they are thin and form this layer, when you melt it it will totally oxidize and go up the stack only leaving the residue which is where the dross come from.

Every see a soda can after a fire. All that's left is the film trash. The moisture in the air and the combustible gas atmosphere leads to oxidization before thermal melting. Most scrap yards don't even handle nickel that i am aware of. They can find you a source though. But they will screw you. Trust me i know this first hand. 

If it is in block form. Just sell it. The gas alone will cost to much. Induction melting is probably the most efficient method there.

Just some thoughts.

Ralph


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 10, 2007)

Jimmy,

What form is the 99% nickel in? A photo would help. Do you know what the other 1% is? Why do you believe that the purity is 99%? A group that can always use decent nickel are the amateur platers. They can't stand much impurities, however, except for maybe cobalt. Copper is a no-no. They also need solid forms like rounds, squares, bars, etc.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Electroplating/

Melting nickel isn't easy. I doubt if any type of gas furnace would get hot enough. Only some type of electrical furnace will work: induction; electric elements; plasma arc; etc. Plus, you need a method that prevents the formation of nickel oxides.

If the nickel is already 99%, I would absolutely sell it as is. If there are oils or other soil present, you may have to clean it to get a best price. Never try to melt it. Without high dollar melting equipment, you will most assuredly end up with a product that is worth far less than what you started with.


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## Noxx (Jul 10, 2007)

Maybe a MAPP furnace ? :lol:


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## aflacglobal (Jul 10, 2007)

In order to melt any given amount of metal a certain amount of heat has to be added. I have a formula some where. If you do this in an open air atmosphere you readily lose the heat to thermal convection to the air.

Very very inefficient. The refractory alone will become another issue.


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 10, 2007)

You're right, Ralph. The refractory is a huge issue.

As a result of the high nickel (and copper) prices, there have cropped up forums that cater to the hoarding of coins. They draw big crowds. They even have converters that calculate the intrinsic value of the different coins. Everybody thinks they're getting rich by this hoarding. People talk about "melting down" the coins and "refining them" as though it were like falling off of a log. Of course, none of these mental giants have never actually tried doing these things. They ask but nobody seems to be able to answer the questions. 

Think of the difficulty of refining and melting gold and silver. For nickel, multiply this by about 100.


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## lazersteve (Jul 10, 2007)

GSP,

Early on I tried to melt down some copper wire into a buss bar to drop silver with. Much to my surprise I went thru an entire bottle of Oxy/Act torch gas and never suceeded in making the 50 gram copper ingot. If nickel is anything like melting copper, I don't want anything to do with it. It's just not cost effective on my scale of things. I'll try my luck at selling the raw metal or powder before melting any of the higher temperature base metals again. 

Steve


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## jimmy759 (Jul 10, 2007)

But thanks so far for info


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 11, 2007)

Live and learn. I had no idea that certain Canadian nickels were 99.9% nickel. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_(Canadian_coin)

This, of course, makes it a different proposition than U.S. nickels, which contain copper. You're right. There is a potential $10/pound profit with the pure Canadian nickels. It is illegal to melt them, however, under Canadian law. I don't know how that would affect melting them in the U.S. They may have reciprocal laws. In the late '60's, those who were illegally melting 90% silver U.S. coins added enough copper to the melt to make it appear that they were melting 80% silver Canadian coins.

You know much more about this than I do. Are the dates in question sold at a premium in the U.S.? Are they that available or, have they most all been hoarded?

The melting problems are the same. I think you would need at least an induction furnace to melt this stuff. A torch would get hot enough but, it wouldn't work since you would get much oxidation.

Even if you were to cast excellent bars, you might have problems selling them without assay proof of the 99.9% purity. And, of course, the buyer must make a profit. Probably, at least 25%.

The coins could be used, as is, for electroplating, if you could find a plater that would take them.


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## jimmy759 (Jul 11, 2007)

:twisted: :idea: :twisted:


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## aflacglobal (Jul 11, 2007)

Jimmy, You might won't to just get off that all together brother. What you are doing is committing federal crimes in two jurisdictions. Not to mentioning smuggling on top of that. We live in a real screwed up day and age. I have heard of people getting 20 Years for less. Think Patriot Act jimmy.

Just a thought.


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## Harold_V (Jul 12, 2007)

Try to remember one thing, which will serve you well in life. There's no free lunch.

I'd suggest that you'll work your butt off for a few bucks----in the end wondering why you didn't spend the time on something that has real potential. There's no way in hell you can collect enough of those nickels to make serious money-----not even minimum wage, not when you figure the time you'll invest exchanging, sorting, bagging, what ever. Then trying to develop a market for a few pounds. It's simply not worth your time----and you need to come to terms with that idea. 

Harold


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## jimmy759 (Jul 12, 2007)

Yeah good point I know what your saying. There is no free lunch.
Thats why I look for the cheapest way to eat.


just thinking out loud again.


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## jimdoc (Jul 12, 2007)

If you have your mind set on doing that, you would be way better off looking for silver in rolls from the bank, than for nickels.Just my 2 cents.


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## aflacglobal (Jul 12, 2007)

Well brother, You are relentless. Should i help or not. Huuummmmm ???

O.K. I'll throw you a fish then. I should not really be telling you this but,
I know exactly how you can do it and do it easily. I have a buddy who collects coins and showed me a trick years ago for doing exactly what you are trying to do to get the silver out ( he had a car wash ). Actually his was for American silver coins , but it should for for you to. The trick here is to seperate different weights and sizes. I guess in that aspect it is like refining.

Each American and Canadian coin is different in size and weight so this should be perfect for you. Or it could be either, which or both at the same time , it shouldn't matter. Get you one of these and do the proper unadjustment and it should be a breeze. 1800 coins a min. Best of all no work. :shock: :shock: :shock: 

Later,

Ralph

8) 8) 8) Don't forget me. lol


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## Harold_V (Jul 12, 2007)

jimmy759 said:


> But just think about it for a moment or two.



I did. More, in fact. I think you need to follow your own advice and think this thing through. From my observations, you're living in La-la land. But I agree----it looks good on paper. 



> And as long as the numbers stay consistant that could make this an $80 an hour job real fast.



Sure, Grasshopper. As long as the numbers stay consistent. 

And you don't feel that as you deplete the desired dates that things won't change? 

You live where there are millions of people, and the source of money is ever being refreshed, so the dates you desire will remain available?

You really think you can check 2000 coins/hr? Hour after hour? You're going to do all these things without buying expensive equipment? 



> I've spent way more then 20 hours trying to learn how to refine gold and so far I have made $35 in scrap steel from cases.



Has that ended up with you facing a judge? Screwing with coins could---dunno----I'm not up to speed on the legal ramifications-----but I'm of the opinion that if you'd put as much effort into making an honest living as you're thinking about expending in an effort to pick up all that "free money", you'd be far better served. Are you old enough to have graduated from high school? If so, did you? Are you doing anything with yourself to prepare for making a living for a life-time? If not, why not? Do you think you'll be able to "hang out" and make it big? 



> And just rember there is 3600 seconds in an hour it takes half a second to read a date.



Any you're going to do that for hours on end, right? 



> just thinking out loud again.



But should you? :wink: 

I was young once-----

I was also born at night-------

*But not last night.* 

Jimmy, you're thinking like a criminal----not an honest person. You may be headed for a life of grief. I suggest you give that a little thought. 

Harold


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## aflacglobal (Jul 12, 2007)

But should you? 

I was young once----- 

I was also born at night------- 

But not last night.


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## Harold_V (Jul 12, 2007)

aflacglobal said:


> Each American and Canadian coin is different in size and weight so this should be perfect for you.



And it can read dates, and sort accordingly, right?



> O.K. I'll throw you a fish then.


 

Give him a pole, not a fish. :wink: 

Harold


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## lazersteve (Jul 12, 2007)

Jimmy,

I think the whole idea of defacing currency is a VERY BAD idea! You need to remember this is a public forum and your posts can be found by Google.

Steve


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## Noxx (Jul 12, 2007)

No they can't 
Since every member has to register and the google bots can't


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## lazersteve (Jul 12, 2007)

Does that mean you got your robots.txt file situated now?

I know in the past you could find posts on this forum with google.

Steve


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## Noxx (Jul 12, 2007)

Seriously ?
I didn't know. I taught Google didn't have access to the posts.


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## lazersteve (Jul 12, 2007)

It can't now that registration is required.


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## jimmy759 (Jul 13, 2007)

Well i have graduated high school and have a few years of college under my belt. I'm working as a heavy duty mechanic. 

But I'm always looking for a little extra here and there.

I do have goals in life and I do have plans for the future.

But i'm still young and have very little to loose so why not take some risks.

But criminal risks are not worth it. To a point as everyone does have there price.

And well It takes money to make money.


Its been done with silver coins why not with nickel.

And is such a bad idea to maybe think outside the box once and a while.

I did not want this to become an argument as it seems to have.

But I kind of fueled the fire.


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## Harold_V (Jul 14, 2007)

jimmy759 said:


> Well i have graduated high school and have years of college under my belt. I'm working as a heavy duty mechanic.



Way cool, Jimmy. You have my respect. 



> But i'm still young and have very little to loose so why not take some risks.



I agree---nothing ventured, nothing gained, but nickel, at least as you've proposed the plan, is far beyond being reasonable. I'll give you my perspective, for what it's worth. 

Nickel is one of the metals that doesn't respond well to torch melting. Jewelers use it to alloy white gold, and it's tricky to melt without oxidizing. Of course, with a controlled atmosphere, the vast majority of the problems of melting are eliminated-----but that's way beyond your ability without expending a huge amount of money. Many years ago I investigated an induction furnace that worked in a vacuum (great solution to the problem of oxidization) and found you could easily spend more than $100,000 for one.

I think the point here isn't so much that you'd need some equipment----if your concept was legal, you could simply sell the nickels to a buyer, accepting payment by the pound. Great idea, and I think I'd go for it, too. Problem is, you've openly discussed the process of practicing deceit----as if you're willing to break the law to pick up a few bucks. It's hard for those of us that don't know you to know where you'd draw the line. Could be you'd feel equally at ease with the idea of robbing a bank, so long as you stole only a small amount of money. Or, maybe, you'd be willing to burglarize a residence if you felt you could find some silver coins---if you get my drift. Dunno, and I'm not here to judge you, just trying to help you see that you're presenting yourself to humanity in such a way that we can get a very poor impression of you, when you may very well be one hell of a great guy. I think you probably are----your efforts in preparing yourself to make a living, thus far, appear to be quite good, and are a sign of responsibility. 



> But criminal risks are not worth it. To a point as everyone does have there price.



Exactly! You'd feel great about receiving even a small part of that $80/hr you spoke of-----but it wouldn't come close to covering the cost of an attorney if you got your butt busted-----assuming there's anything illegal about your plan. Just trying to help you see that. 



> And well It takes money to make money.



My experience thus far in life is that there's some magical line, which I can not describe. If you live above that line, money tends to fall in your lap. If you live below that line, you're always a day late and a buck short. Not being in debt up to your eyebrows on credit cards, not buying a new car because you want one, not buying stupid things that lose value immediately---not doing drugs-----not being the local drunk-----along with many other factors, dictate, in part, on which side of that line you're going to dwell. 



> Its been done with silver coins why not with nickel.



I'll give you one real good reason. It's not beyond the ability of the home refiner to silently process silver coins. You can't do that with nickel, for reasons I've already mentioned. There are likely more reasons that I've left out. Some metals are difficult to deal with, and having them in forms that are not easily identified further complicates matters. I'll offer you, as an example, the copper sludge that is generated from refining gold and silver. It's still copper, but there's no market for the stuff. If you melt it and cast a bar, so it becomes marketable as scrap copper, you're invested in the bar more than it's value. I'm afraid you'd find yourself in that same position with nickel. If, on the other hand, you could gather them, bag them, and sell them by weight, great. While they're still in the form, as struck, you know what you have. The moment you change that, you render them as scrap, of unknown quality. Nickel may be worth $20/lb, but the junk you'd end up with won't be, regardless of how you treat it. 



> And is such a bad idea to maybe think outside the box once and a while.



Absolutely not! That's how new things come about. I don't have a problem with thinking at all----just a problem with decisions that are not viable. 



> I did not want this to become an argument as it seems to have. But I kind of fueled the fire.



Not an argument as far as I'm concerned, Jimmy. Just a serious conversation (hopefully between friends) that can be beneficial. If you and I can't have a conversation without offending, we're not acting like adults. 

I commented I was young once, too. It's been a long time, but not so long that I can't remember getting my tit in a wringer for making bad decisions. One of them was climbing poles, changing out insulators. I was a collector for a few years, back when insulators with collecting value were still to be found on poles, often even without wire on them. I got busted two times before I wised up. The legal owners of those poles (railroads and the telephone companies) take a real dim view of people taking their possessions, even if they aren't using them and they'll eventually end up in the dump. One of my instances was exactly that, insulators from a mainline UP track in a small community south of Pocatello, Idaho. No wire on the glass, not being used, and never would be again, but the insulators didn't belong to me, and they made that abundantly clear! 

Young people don't have good judgment in many cases, not having had enough experience in life to be properly informed, and also having the attitude that they're indestructible. I was no different. I see things very differently now than I did in those days. I screwed up big time on several occasions, but was lucky to land on my feet. I understand you and where you are----so please don't take any of this in such a way as to think I'm talking down to you . That's not my intention.

Harold.


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## Noxx (Jul 14, 2007)

> Young people don't have good judgment in many cases, not having had enough experience in life to be properly informed, and also having the attitude that they're indestructible.



Kinda true. That's why experience of you guys (and advices you give) is important to me


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## catfish (Jul 14, 2007)

Hey guys:

You folks may want to revisit Webster’s definition of “Conspiracy”

The act of conspiring to commit a Federal crime caries the same sentence as actually committing the crime it’s self in most cases. My U.S. Attorney friend sez it is easier to convict some one for conspiracy than it is for actually committing the crime.

You may want to visit this U.S.C.

United States Code
TITLE 18
PART I
CHAPTER 17 
§ 331. Mutilation, diminution, and falsification of coins

Quote:

“Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, and diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.”

Like the statute I previously discussed, prior to 1994 when this law
was amended, the statute read “fined not more than $2,000”. This was
changed in 1994 to read “shall be fined under this title” which
effectively gives the court the authority to impose a fine at its
discretion. Of course the imprisonment terms mentioned in the statute
speaks for itself.

Note:

The key word in the above act is “Current, in actual use or circulation.” 

Do people sometimes do this and get away with it? Sure they do. We've all seen it and yet no one seems to be swooping down on the violators to haul them off to jail.

If this is the law spelled out before us in black and white then why
doesn’t the government prosecute everyone who does it?” Your guess is as good as mine; but nevertheless, there’s the law, just as it is written and you may want to reconsider your thinking on this endeavor.

I sure would not want to be the first one to be prosecuted for this type of activity.

Harold, I believe you summed it up best. Don’t even think about it, for it is not worth it.

“Too much sugar for a dime”

Catfish


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## Harold_V (Jul 15, 2007)

Hmmm! Catfish, that actually raises a question. Not being an attorney, what I get from what you quoted is that the federal government is interested in preventing the alteration of the value of any coinage, not concerned so much with melting, which simply removes it/them from circulation, and no one is snookered. I can understand how removing a portion from each coin would be considered illegal-----when coins are made of precious metals, and that appears to be the point of the restriction. 

It would be interesting to hear about the legality of simply melting coins for their content, with no thoughts of deceiving anyone-----such as melting pre-'82 pennies for the copper content, say, for a casting of sorts. Or----even the nickels that precipitated this thread. When you think about it, they really are two completely different matters-----although I concede, may be equally illegal. 

Harold


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## catfish (Jul 15, 2007)

Hi Harold:

You pose an interesting comment. 

This is the response from the Treasury Department. Please note the last sentence, “However there are no sanctions against such activity absent of fraudulent intent”.

As we all know, there are 15 different ways to interpret a law.

http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/coins/portraits.shtml#top

Quote:

FAQs: Coins
________________________________________
________________________________________
Is it illegal to damage or deface coins?
Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides criminal penalties for anyone who “fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the Mints of the United States.” This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. As a matter of policy, the U.S. Mint does not promote coloring, plating or altering U.S. coinage: however, there are no sanctions against such activity absent fraudulent intent.

I buy quite a few Silver coins and resell them to my recycler for silver scrap.

Catfish


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## Harold_V (Jul 15, 2007)

Heh! Yep, sounds like maybe Jimmy's plan is fine-----he simply has to sell the nickels as is, without any attempt to deface, melt, or otherwise change the coins. Truth be told, that's in his favor, because messing with nickel is a tough call for anyone without proper equipment. As long as he bags and sells, he's certainly not doing anything to snooker anyone. 

Go for it, Jimmy! (Although it might not hurt to check with your attorney beforehand. As catfish suggested, there's likely 15 ways the law can be interpreted). 

The other problem, of course, will be to discover a buyer. That may be harder than anyone might suppose. Ever try to sell rhodium?

Because I had a relatively steady source of scrap sterling, I didn't melt US coins (which came in occasionally), so I have them safely tucked away, including the Kennedy halves that are, what, 35% silver? I melted only very badly damaged coins when I refined.

Harold


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## jimmy759 (Jul 17, 2007)

I appriciate all the information around this topic.

I have been busy this weekend. So I haven't had the time to reply properly.

I will do some more reasearch into things now that i have a better starting point.

Harold I really respect your opionion and knowledge.
And hope that I may be able to help you in the near future. Also being able to learn more too.

I'm going a way to montreal for a week tommorrow so I Will not be around for a while.

Again Thank you all


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## Harold_V (Jul 17, 2007)

Have a safe trip, Jimmy.

Harold


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## whitesid (Jan 4, 2008)

i know that they lifted the law restricting the melting of silver coins, so you can melt down the silver coins. as for Canada coins i don't know if YOU can but i know that the Canadian government is taking back the nickel nickels and the copper pennies and melting them down. its is illegal to melt down US copper pennies and nickels(this also includes the silver nickels). 

im sure they are going to lift that in a few years, its the same thing that they did with the silver coins. when they switched over to the copper clad coins they made it illegal to melt them down. but years after it was legalized


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## bmgold (Nov 27, 2008)

As I have stated on another post, If a lot of the coins get melted (legally or not) the value to collectors will go up. Silver coins are worth more to collectors than the value of the silver. Check with a coin dealer or collector before melting any. You might have to hold on to them (copper pennies, etc.) but I expect the value to go up as they get rarer and harder to find. Badly damaged silver coins might be an exception since the condition very much influences the price.


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