# How to melt gold and platinum alloy that is powder ( Raw) )



## mary2016 (Mar 23, 2016)

Hi dear friends , 
I have a gold and platinum alloy that I got it from nitric acid as powder , but it does not melt .
I put it in the melting furnace 1100 degrees centigrade but failed , I gave it heat With the acetylene torch(air/acetylene) , but it didn't melt in metalic form.when 
I give it high temperature,it become in the form of pasty and then when it become cold,it become glassy like a carnelian but Mat, in red-brownish color and Not metalic form.
please tell me if you know another way for melting it in metalic form . 
Thank you so much


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## 4metals (Mar 23, 2016)

Platinum needs 1700C to melt so the furnace alone will not do it. The acetylene torch can generate the necessary heat if properly applied. What type of melting dish were you using? And was the torch air acetylene or oxy acetylene?


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## mary2016 (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks for your answer, 
I have used Graphite crucible and air/acetylene torch .
At first ,this alloy was Nanoparticles in colors of yellow, orange, green ,blue and purple .after 
I applied nitric acid on it ,it became a dark gray powder and black powder. When I give it high temperature, it become in the form of pasty and then when it become cold,it become glassy like a carnelian but Mat, in red-brownish color and Not metalic form. 
Do you have Idea for solving this problem ?
Thank you again


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## 4metals (Mar 23, 2016)

Platinum should never be melted in a graphite crucible. The best crucible for melting platinum is a Wesgo hi back platinum crucible and it looks like this;




The shape allows the flame to swirl around in the melt dish longer and retain the heat vs. a standard crucible. 

Carbon contamination is a problem when melting in graphite and when melting with acetylene. Oxy acetylene is hotter than air acetylene but air acetylene will do the job if you are not trying to cast jewelry where the brittleness from carbon contamination will come into play. A hydrogen oxygen torch is best for melting platinum.

I do not understand why you put the material into nitric acid. You would have been better served digesting it in aqua regia. If refining this is your goal, the small particle size will help your digestion and melting will only make things more difficult. But apparently it is too late for that. 

But now you have a non metallic looking mass, likely carbon contaminated platinum. A different torch (not acetylene) and the right crucible may help you, otherwise inquartation may be the only option. 

Before you get a real mess on your hands I suggest you stop processing and start reading on this forum and download Hokes book for free from the link to the library in my signature line. 

Welcome to the forum. All of the answers to your issues are on the forum already and once you familiarize yourself with some of the processes your questions will be answered either by reading and further questions, or simply by reading. Questions posted with details as to what you have done and what you want to do are better received and generate more responses from our members. 

Good luck


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## mary2016 (Mar 24, 2016)

Thanks for your answer ,

I have some of the alloy that I didn`t put it in nitric acid yet . I do act as u said, and I`ll apply aqua regia on it . do it need heat or not ?
But I don’t understand why it become in the form of pasty when I give heat(even high temperature) to it and then when it become cold,it become glassy like carnelian but Mat, in red-brownish color and Not metalic form. Naturally it should become solid metal , Not pasty and then glassy . what do you think about it ?

Mary


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## g_axelsson (Mar 24, 2016)

mary2016 said:


> Hi dear friends ,
> I have a gold and platinum alloy that I got it from nitric acid as powder , but it does not melt .
> I put it in the melting furnace 1100 degrees centigrade but failed , I gave it heat With the acetylene torch(air/acetylene) , but it didn't melt in metalic form.when
> I give it high temperature,it become in the form of pasty and then when it become cold,it become glassy like a carnelian but Mat, in red-brownish color and Not metalic form.
> ...


There are a lot of missing information in your question. For example :
* What was the starting material
* Describe the process you did use to get a gold platinum alloy from nitric acid???
* How do you know what you have is a gold platinum alloy?
* Do you have pictures?

I'm sure there are more questions, but without the whole picture it's hard to help you.

Göran


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## mary2016 (Mar 25, 2016)

Hi dear friend ,
Thanks for your attention . about your questions :

* What was the starting material ?
one of the friends have taken them from The ore .

* Describe the process you did use to get a gold platinum alloy from nitric acid ???
I put the material in Beaker and pour nitric acid 60% on them . after 24 hours , this black powders ( pic 1 ) remained bottom of Beaker .












* How do you know what you have is a gold platinum alloy ? 
beacuse they don`t dissolve in nitric acid and when I give heat in high temperature , I just could gain afew very small piece of metal ( yellow and gray ) . In laser test they was confirmed as Au and Pt .

I give it high temperature,it become in the form of pasty and then when it become cold,it become glassy like a carnelian but Mat, in red-brownish color and Not metalic form. please look at the pictures :


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## mary2016 (Mar 25, 2016)




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## g_axelsson (Mar 25, 2016)

Magnetic and not dissolving in nitric acid... magnetite maybe?
It does not look like any gold powder I've ever seen. Gold and platinum isn't magnetic. I doubt that you have any large percentage of gold at all in that powder.

What is the "laser test" you used for confirming it is gold or platinum?

Lets say that you have gold and platinum extracted from ore, then you should first test the liquids from the first nitric bath, palladium would dissolve in nitric, palladium and platinum is found together most of the time. Test with stannous chloride.

Before trying to melt it again, put a sample in cold aqua regia to dissolve gold. Filter off any solids and test the liquid for dissolved gold with stannous chloride.
Then take the solids and boil it in fresh aqua regia for a while, this will dissolve at least some platinum if there is some there. Test the liquid with stannous for gold or platinum. If there is gold present, denox the liquid and then precipitate it with SMB or copperas, then test the remaining liquid for platinum.

The first rule of melting gold and platinum is to have gold and platinum in the first place, and I don't think you have that.

Göran


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## nickvc (Mar 26, 2016)

Goran I suspect the laser test was an xrf reading :shock: 
Of so this member may well be wasting their time, normal advice get a fire assay done who knows what is in the mix,mores frequently contain highly toxic elements that need addressing before adding acids or other chemicals.


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## mary2016 (Mar 28, 2016)

Hi dear friend , 
Thank you for your attention .
Mary


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## mary2016 (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi ,
I have analysed the material , there is Ruthenium oxide , zinc oxide, palladium oxide in the material .
please tell me , How to Remove the metal oxides ? specially Ruthenium oxide .
Thank you 
Mary


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## Barren Realms 007 (Apr 10, 2016)

mary2016 said:


> Hi ,
> I have analysed the material , there is Ruthenium oxide , zinc oxide, palladium oxide in the material .
> please tell me , How to Remove the metal oxides ? specially Ruthenium oxide .
> Thank you
> Mary



How have you analysed it or had it analysed buy someone that knows what they are doing?


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 10, 2016)

I agree - have a fire assay done on the material. Otherwise you won't really know what you have.


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## blueduck (Apr 22, 2016)

A standard fire assay will eat up the platinum, very few people understand the steps needed to fire assay and come up with a platinum reading at all.

As for platinum not being magnetic, we have a raw ore that has magnetic platinum albeit ever so lightly. Everything is magnetic or has magnetic properties of one sort or another, that is the basics of how things work and held together, which doesn't mean everything is going to be attracted to a certain magnet or magnetic field. Science has ignored magnetic feilds for way to long (yes getting off track) 

anyway if you need a assay done by a lab that does understand how to fire for platinum, I know of one in Colorado that could do that for you, and there are a few others who can as well I imagine.

William
Idaho


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## Long Shot (Apr 22, 2016)

Blueduck - I know, off topic but yes, everything responds to magnetism. Just because we can't see it or detect it yet doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


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## 4metals (Apr 22, 2016)

Blueduck said:


> A standard fire assay will eat up the platinum, very few people understand the steps needed to fire assay and come up with a platinum reading at all.



I assume this is from the silver you are adding as a collector in your fusion. The silver will take some, if not all, of the Platinum into the nitric parting solution. That's what AA's and ICP's are for!


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## blueduck (Apr 25, 2016)

4metals said:


> Blueduck said:
> 
> 
> > A standard fire assay will eat up the platinum, very few people understand the steps needed to fire assay and come up with a platinum reading at all.
> ...



That may be part of the problem, the fella who owns this claim we are working right now came across the procedure a few years back, and has shared it with the colorado lab I mentioned above. The chinese also spent 13 hours with him a couple years back videoing him from ore crushing thru the entire assay process twice that came out platinum positive, and while they are interested in the ore, their offer was way off from what he was willing to part with it at that time, and now it appears a law or two have changed concerning export even across state lines to a degree. So we are in pursuit of a different avenue.

William 
Idaho


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