# Questions about AP



## firedan525

Hello everyone. I have started some pins in acid peroxide. I got a batch in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid on loosely. My question lies in the understanding I keep it at room temp. I only have a open carport that I intend to close in, and a shed with gets hotter than hell. I put the bucket in the open carport so it at least has shade. But by chance it does dissolve some gold and I test w/ positive results, can I percipitate it out w/ sodium metabisulfate. Does the addition of peroxide add any challanges for filtering. Thanks yall, DAN


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## lazersteve

Dan,

Just be sure to filter the solution good before you percipitate. SMB works just the same. Test a small sample to get the feel of it.

Steve


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## firedan525

> Test a small sample to get the feel of it.


 Does this mean that the amount SMB used is different or does the peroxide affect the way the reaction works?


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## lazersteve

This way you learn things that you don't anticipate without screwing up your whole batch. The solution may need to be diluted or maybe it needs more acid. Look before you leap... Don't put all your eggs in one basket... etc..

Steve


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## firedan525

Where can I get your thinking cap from? :wink:


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## AuMINIMayhem

firedan525 said:


> Where can I get your thinking cap from? :wink:



:lol: I've been wondering the same thing! (I come up with some stupid thoughts on here, Steve's quick to get me back in line though..  )


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## firedan525

Well I used 2 big bottles of peroxide, and 1 gallon of HCL. I checked on it a few minutes ago. It has been 1 day and flake is coming off by the truckload and the pins are dissolving nicely, base metal turning black, but no fizzing. Is this just a slow process and how do I know if I need to amp up my solution w/ more juice? Thanks alot, DAN


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## lazersteve

Dan,

If the solution forms a colored salt on the surface like this:







Add 2 cups of muriatic acid. The bubbles are because I just agitated the batch.

If the solution darkens to a near black add 2 cups of peroxide to make it lighten up. This will produce heat and some more bubbles. The bubbles are just the peroxide and are not necessarily an indication of the reaction in this situation. 

If you are using the proper 3 gallon semi-transparent reaction vessel you can lift it up (don't spill it on your head or drop it!!) and look thru the bottom at your mash of gold flake and foils. You will most likely see a lot of off white powder as well.

Steve


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## firedan525

I drilled the holes as specified into the bottom of the 3 gallon bucket. I placed the bucket into a five gallon bucket, and added the pins to the 3 gallon. Added AP and now a day later its black and cannot see bottom. There is however a huge amount of flake floating around that you can't miss. I will add 2 cups peroxide and see if that clears it up. Question, is the 3 gallon bucket allowed to rest on the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket? And what is the make up of the off white powder you spoke of in the last post? Thanks alot? I get this done right the first time and understand the reaction taking place and I'm good. Thanks alot , DAN


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## lazersteve

Yes the bucket can rest in the bottom of the other. The black is really a dark green that's okay. I would only add a cup not two. The reason is because the extra peroxide may cause the gold to dissolve into the solution. The object is not to dissolve the gold, but to recovery the nearly pure foils to be processed in the refining step.

The off-white powder is typically base metal compounds (copper chloride mostly). It will all dissolve when you do the final HCl washes. You know it's all out when the HCl rinse no longer turns dark green or black. Lastly you follow up with several tap water rinses until the last one comes out perfectly clear.

Steve


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## firedan525

Thanks, you know i'm sure you have run across stubborn flake that seems like it doest want to settle. Kinda suspended or floats. I pulled the inside bucket out slowly and I noticed that I still have alot of flake that wont go through the strainer and or getting caught on the gob of pins. Should I rinse what may be left over w/ HCL to get all the flake when I'm done, and how should I go aboutdropping all the floating or suspended flakes? Thanks again, DAN


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## lazersteve

Dan,

Here's the cleanup routine:

Cleanup

Here's another point to remember:

Additional Notes

You should also become familiar with the information in this thread:

Basic Information

Let me know if you get lost.

Steve


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## firedan525

WOW, thats great. I print out information like that and put it in a folder with the highlighted topic for future reference. Thanks again, DAN


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## glondor

Hey Steve I wonder if you could reconnect the links in this thread? Thanks Mike


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## Palladium

Cleanup

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3263&highlight=#3263

Additional Notes

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3363&highlight=#3363

Basic Information

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=2782&highlight=#2782


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## lasereyes

This process really seems like a pain, so why doesn't everyone just use the sulfuric cell?


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## glondor

Thanks Palladium.


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## Oz

lasereyes said:


> This process really seems like a pain, so why doesn't everyone just use the sulfuric cell?


Perhaps you have not dealt with the hassles of electric with anodes and cathodes, not to mention concentrated sulfuric acid and the gold clean-up from it. Short of cheap nitric acid I prefer AP to a sulfuric acid de-plating cell if you are to judge the 2 on labor needs alone.

Make no mistake, refining is work. There is no free ride.


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## lazersteve

Sorry about that.

I fixed the originals.


Steve


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## lasereyes

Oz said:


> lasereyes said:
> 
> 
> 
> This process really seems like a pain, so why doesn't everyone just use the sulfuric cell?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you have not dealt with the hassles of electric with anodes and cathodes, not to mention concentrated sulfuric acid and the gold clean-up from it. Short of cheap nitric acid I prefer AP to a sulfuric acid de-plating cell if you are to judge the 2 on labor needs alone.
> 
> Make no mistake, refining is work. There is no free ride.
Click to expand...


I still think that sulfuric acid is better when you take into waste management into account. It is also probably more economical, considering that you can reuse most of the acid...


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## lazersteve

AP can be reused also.

Concentrated Sulfuric acid is $25 a gallon retail from ACE hardware HCl is $5 a gallon retail at Lowes, 3% peroxide is $1 a quart at Walmart. An aquarium bubbler is $5-$10 at Walmart for fast stripping and rejuvenation.

AP is way safer than working with concentrated sulfuric acid, especially when the cell is hot.

The cell needs constant attention, AP is a 'set it and forget it' method.

I still use the cell for some items, but it's not my main work horse.

Steve


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## Barren Realms 007

The AP really is so much easier on some things. I have 80lbs of fingers in a 15 gal barrel running now. And even in the cold weather they have gone like gang busters. I have another 6 lbs of gold lids but it would take too much time to run them in the cell so when I get ready I will just run them in a batch of Poor mans and polish them off real quick. You have to look at the time you will have invested on stuff and what you have coming down the pike.


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## lasereyes

lazersteve said:


> AP can be reused also.
> 
> Concentrated Sulfuric acid is $25 a gallon retail from ACE hardware HCl is $5 a gallon retail at Lowes, 3% peroxide is $1 a quart at Walmart. An aquarium bubbler is $5-$10 at Walmart for fast stripping and rejuvenation.
> 
> AP is way safe than working with concentrated sulfuric acid, especially when the cell is hot.
> 
> The cell needs constant attention, AP is a 'set it and forget it' method.
> 
> I still use the cell for some items, but it's not my main work horse.
> 
> Steve



That makes sense. Have you ever tried cooling a cell in a an ice water slurry? Also I was wondering, is a 12 volt 6 amp battery charger adequate for the type of cell described on your site?


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## Oz

Concentrated sulfuric acid in a glass container resting in water is an accident waiting to happen. If they mixed suddenly you would have a spitting nasty mess.


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## lasereyes

Oz said:


> Concentrated sulfuric acid in a glass container resting in water is an accident waiting to happen. If they mixed suddenly you would have a spitting nasty mess.



If the glass containing the sulfuring acid breaks or spills, your going to have a problem either way. It seems safe as long as your careful, just don't use glycerin:

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/Chemical-Explosion-Reported-on-West-Side-Chicago.html


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## Oz

You are right, concentrated sulfuric acid is dangerous. This is what we have been telling you. Perhaps you should stay away from it until you really understand the hazards. However if you do use it, it is a good idea to have your container surrounded by a catchment. Do not make things purposely more hazardous by adding the problem of water.


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## lasereyes

Oz said:


> You are right, concentrated sulfuric acid is dangerous. This is what we have been telling you. Perhaps you should stay away from it until you really understand the hazards. However if you do use it, it is a good idea to have your container surrounded by a catchment. Do not make things purposely more hazardous by adding the problem of water.



I plan on setting up a electrolytic cell soon, and I've already handled the concentrated sulfuric acid. I do have a small amount of acid-resistant fibre which I plan on surrounding the upper part of the dish with so that the acid won't come into contact with the water.


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## stihl88

Please don't underestimate the 98% Sulphuric, Ive been using my new cell for the past few days and i am just amazed at the small amount it takes to spit the stuff everywhere, It's lethal stuff.

MUSTS - Wear Eye protection
- Wear Gloves

Make sure you have a tall jug of water that has Baking Soda added, once you strip the part just drop it in the jug and it will be neutralized, try and drip the Sulphuric from the part a few times otherwise if you stick a stripped component or a whole basket of stripped components in the Jug you will get a whole lot of spitting.
Ive got a pull-out filter in my was jug so i can shake the stripped parts and remove them with ease at a later date.

As far as cooling > I thought about this and i would make a copper tube coil style cooler and have the Cell sitting on top of the coil, the coil would be connected to a pump which in turn is sitting a few feet away which is full of iced water.


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## lasereyes

stihl88 said:


> Please don't underestimate the 98% Sulphuric, Ive been using my new cell for the past few days and i am just amazed at the small amount it takes to spit the stuff everywhere, It's lethal stuff.
> 
> MUSTS - Wear Eye protection
> - Wear Gloves
> 
> Make sure you have a tall jug of water that has Baking Soda added, once you strip the part just drop it in the jug and it will be neutralized, try and drip the Sulphuric from the part a few times otherwise if you stick a stripped component or a whole basket of stripped components in the Jug you will get a whole lot of spitting.
> Ive got a pull-out filter in my was jug so i can shake the stripped parts and remove them with ease at a later date.
> 
> As far as cooling > I thought about this and i would make a copper tube coil style cooler and have the Cell sitting on top of the coil, the coil would be connected to a pump which in turn is sitting a few feet away which is full of iced water.



A coil may not make enough contact with the glass to cool the cell sufficiently, but perhaps you could make some sort of heat sink attached to the cell that the coil could run through.


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## Oz

You are overconfident in something I fear you have little experience with. I still suggest using a dry secondary catchment basin for your cell and to keep water away. 

Lasereyes, you have not even run a cell before and you are designing cooling systems that could not only be dangerous but may also prove unnecessary depending on how you use your cell. I worry about others following and trying to impliment some of your ideas.

My primary purpose in posting on this forum is to keep everyone safe first and foremost. You need to start off small and safe to minimize the risks in any process in chemistry until you understand what to expect, even then scaling up can cause unexpected problems and risks. You are presumably on this forum to learn refining from people that do this and know more than you do about it. Listen to them instead of idle speculation.

You started off in this thread having solid opinions as to the sulfuric cell being superior to AP when you have never built a sulfuric cell and your comments lead me to believe you have not done the AP process either. I have intentionally refrained from answering your earlier questions as to amperage and voltage as you were talking about an “ice water slurry” surrounding your concentrated sulfuric acid. 

Stihl88 gave you warnings on this as well as some safety precautions (thanks stihl88). I would never work with my sulfuric stripping cells without neutralizing agents at hand, goggles, face shield, and gloves. Even when you see no spitting from a cell, you more often than not find your clothes with many fine holes from micro droplets that occur. This is even with a properly operating cell mind you, not a minor or heaven forbid major failure. Frankly I have been considering installing a shower stall in my lab if I do much more with sulfuric acid especially hot (strong bases can be worse) so if the worst happens I can get under running water to minimize the damage as I am stripping off my clothes and protective gear. Just imagine even a 5 liter beaker breaking or spilling down your front side and soaking your clothes and you can see the value in this additional piece of lab equipment.

I have built several different styles of these cells, each with their own purpose as to the material or quantity being stripped. They range from 1 liter to 15 gallons in concentrated sulfuric acid capacity and can strip up to 5 lbs at a time. Some materials are best recovered in a cell like this, many are not. Of those materials best suited to this, many need to be handled differently than others do. 

Anything I would have said to you about operating these cells would have only encouraged you to move forward incorporating some unsafe ideas. I am simply unwilling to encourage someone who will not listen to safety concerns first. Steve that posted above probably knows more about these cells than I do. While I cannot speak for him, I would be surprised if he wished to teach you about them if you do not put safety first and chose to ignore any of his thoughts on safty as well. You will find that those here that have the most to teach will feel the same way.

The primary reason for my long reply is that I would not wish someone new here to read your ideas thinking them without risks. To be fair, some of this coming from me is not just about you. I have become irritated of late by people coming here to learn from others with experience, only to disregard the advice given and move forward without caution. Others are beset with gold fever, that do not wish to spend the time in order to learn how to do this safely and exercise sound ecological practices while refining. 

As long as I am here I will not help someone that does not put safety first, or be responsible for the proper treatment of their wastes. 

Convince the knowledgeable members here in your sincerity to listen to what they advise and your desire to be safe and responsible, and there is no end to the knowledge and education you can receive here.


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## nickvc

A well thought out and honest appraisal of the dangers of trying to re design the wheel without the basic understanding of it's application.
Please take Ozs warning seriously, none of us on the forum want anyone hurt or worse and certainly don't want to be part of the cause. Learn the basics and get them down pat before trying to move into experimentation where dangerous and unexpected reactions can easily occur.
We have members of different ages,abilities and nationalities and safe practice must be our first priority and for all our members to understand the dangers of the chemicals and processes we all use and even more importantly to know when to stop and ask for guidance and then to listen to those who know exactly what to do.... or not to do!


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## Harold_V

Oz said:


> Concentrated sulfuric acid in a glass container resting in water is an accident waiting to happen. If they mixed suddenly you would have a spitting nasty mess.


In '75, I was flown to New Mexico to inspect a large stripping cell that was in use by the government. They used a 300 amp rectifier for stripping, using large copper and/or brass baskets. Because of the amperage, and the fact that the cell was operated on a continual basis, it was water cooled. Inner jacket was taller than the water cooling jacket by a few inches. They reported no issues with the water cooling jacket. It's important to keep the temperature low, to prevent dissolution of base metals. 

Harold


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## Oz

I was not saying it cannot be done in a professional lab by experienced personnel that understand the dangers involved. But often we have members coming here new that do not know the differences between the Pyrex glasses or are using a coffee carafe, let alone the dangers of concentrated sulfuric acid and water. 

At 300 amps that was a far larger volume of concentrated sulfuric acid by far than I have ever dealt with. Out of curiosity I have to ask as to the material they chose for their vessel. With those volumes (no hobby stuff there) I would have used iron to keep the acid separate from the water in order to minimize or avoid a possible fracture of the containment vessel. I sure would not want to be present for a failure!

I stand by my statements that too many on the forum are too new in order to make sound judgments as to the possible consequences of trying to water cool sulfuric acid stripping cells.


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## lasereyes

Oz said:


> I was not saying it cannot be done in a professional lab by experienced personnel that understand the dangers involved. But often we have members coming here new that do not know the differences between the Pyrex glasses or are using a coffee carafe, let alone the dangers of concentrated sulfuric acid and water.
> 
> At 300 amps that was a far larger volume of concentrated sulfuric acid by far than I have ever dealt with. Out of curiosity I have to ask as to the material they chose for their vessel. With those volumes (no hobby stuff there) I would have used iron to keep the acid separate from the water in order to minimize or avoid a possible fracture of the containment vessel. I sure would not want to be present for a failure!
> 
> I stand by my statements that too many on the forum are too new in order to make sound judgments as to the possible consequences of trying to water cool sulfuric acid stripping cells.



Personally my educational background includes electrochemistry so I trust my own judgement.


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## stihl88

lasereyes said:


> Personally my educational background includes electrochemistry so I trust my own judgement.



Ahhh.... Then you should understand that having a water bath under your Cell is probably one of the most ludicrous things you could do with a Stripping Cell.

- You seem to be quite contempt on this subject and it seems as though you have not quite grasped the dangers that others here have pointed out to you here.


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## Barren Realms 007

stihl88 said:


> lasereyes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally my educational background includes electrochemistry so I trust my own judgement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh.... Then you should understand that having a water bath under your Cell is probably one of the most ludicrous things you could do with a Stripping Cell.
> 
> - You seem to be quite contempt on this subject and it seems as though you have not quite grasped the dangers that others here have pointed out to you here.
Click to expand...


When it is warm outside I use an ice bath under my cell. Now I have worked with sulpuric for over 25 years so stihl88 don't put everyone in the same boat. Some people have the experience to deal with this but not everyone.


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## stihl88

Barren, as an experienced person you should know that if you get a break in your cell and it ends up dumping your lot of acid and it ends up in the water bath below then you've got a monster on your hands and your 25 years XP ain't going to mean much except for "evacuate the area", i hope.

Please post pictures of you water cooled design, this will tell me which boat to put you on, I will put you in the same boat with lasereyes if your using the same water/ice cooled bath that lasereyes is referring to :mrgreen:


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## lasereyes

Perhaps instead of ice water one could use refrigerated mineral oil. It probably does not react with sulfuric acid.


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## lasereyes

stihl88 said:


> Barren, as an experienced person you should know that if you get a break in your cell and it ends up dumping your lot of acid and it ends up in the water bath below then you've got a monster on your hands and your 25 years XP ain't going to mean much except for "evacuate the area", i hope.
> 
> Please post pictures of you water cooled design, this will tell me which boat to put you on, I will put you in the same boat with lasereyes if your using the same water/ice cooled bath that lasereyes is referring to :mrgreen:



Constructive criticism is helpful, but I don't need to be "put on a boat".


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## Barren Realms 007

stihl88 said:


> Barren, as an experienced person you should know that if you get a break in your cell and it ends up dumping your lot of acid and it ends up in the water bath below then you've got a monster on your hands and your 25 years XP ain't going to mean much except for "evacuate the area", i hope.
> 
> Please post pictures of you water cooled design, this will tell me which boat to put you on, I will put you in the same boat with lasereyes if your using the same water/ice cooled bath that lasereyes is referring to :mrgreen:



I don't use a glass container when I do this I use a platsic bowl inside of a plastic bowl. It is true that you can have a violent reaction when the 2 items come in contact with each other but that is mostly at elevated temperatures. When it is cold you have less of a chance of this happening. 

I don't have any pictures right now as the parts I use for my cell are being used for other purposes right now in my refining setup.


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## Barren Realms 007

lasereyes said:


> stihl88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Barren, as an experienced person you should know that if you get a break in your cell and it ends up dumping your lot of acid and it ends up in the water bath below then you've got a monster on your hands and your 25 years XP ain't going to mean much except for "evacuate the area", i hope.
> 
> Please post pictures of you water cooled design, this will tell me which boat to put you on, I will put you in the same boat with lasereyes if your using the same water/ice cooled bath that lasereyes is referring to :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constructive criticism is helpful, but I don't need to be "put on a boat".
Click to expand...


Your still on the newbies boat but be patient you will get upgraded in time. 8)


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## joem

How about the blue freezer packs in a zip lock baggie?


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## lasereyes

joem said:


> How about the blue freezer packs in a zip lock baggie?



those are mostly water so you might as well just put ice in a bag.


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## joem

lasereyes said:


> joem said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about the blue freezer packs in a zip lock baggie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> those are mostly water so you might as well just put ice in a bag.
Click to expand...


but they are enclosed and the baggie would be an added safety measure (and they are cheap too)


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## Rreyes097

Hello everybody, I was recently advised by a mentor of sorts to simply put fingers in ar and forget the ap. I'm very new to this and it's a hobby of mine because, well I've yet to pull gold out! And have spent money on supplies. My first 2 batches were duds. My 3rd is currently showing some promise. It at first contained various gold pins, a few ozs, and 300 ml muriatic acid and 50 ml of hydrogen peroxide. But I noticed that no gold was showing up and all my pins looked solid, and after reading many posts on the forum I put in some fingers to put more copper in to push my gold out. Thinking that was going on, while doing this it sits on a hot plate on lowest setting. Thinking this batch was going to work out. I went ahead and made another batch of 5 ozs of fingers. With 300ml muriatic acid and a couple capfulls of hp, as per a post I seen. This too sits on hotplate. Both batches are covered. The all fingers batch turned emerald green while the mixed one was pretty clear. So impatience took a hold of me and I just combined the batch! For good or bad, I'mI'm now seeing gold foils. But again my pins remain copper looking goldish coloring. And let me also add that I put all pins into solution. Magnetic pins as well as non magnetic. Does this ruin my chances at gold? Please advise, I'm desperately needing some successful retrieval of gold to show my wife im not crazy! Very discouraged and might even try reverse electro plating ..?


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## upcyclist

The AP process requires oxygen--that's why we often kickstart it with hydrogen peroxide. Are you running a bubbler in your AP solution? Without it, your reaction will take quite some time to get moving (once the initial shot of peroxide is consumed).


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## FrugalRefiner

Rreyes, please don't double or triple post on the same situation. It scatters information all over the forum, and you'll probably get confusing answers by including slightly different information in each post. I've deleted your other two posts. Take your time and compose your posts to include the details, then keep all your posts on that situation in the same thread.

Dave


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## butcher

Heat can be good or bad. 
Heating the solution can drive out oxygen (bad). 
Much Higher heat can also evaporate the needed water and fume off your acid (very bad)...
Too cold and the reactions can slow way down. so winter a gentle heat may be necessary. A box and a light bulb can be handy, or some other method to prevent freezing weather from putting things on hold. 
If it is fair weather spring summer or fall fair days, it should not need added heat.
"sitting on the hot plate" that could be your problem or at least one of them.

The process with fingers to recover gold, is almost fool proof easy, it is probably just you do not understand the process. Even though it is so very simple, without understanding it, you could run into many problems. 
Education is the key to unlock the mystery of your gold.

I suggest you spend some time studying. Laser Steve's web site has a good document explaining the copper II chloride etch. the General reaction list and Guide to the forum will also be helpful...
On the forum there are tons of information on this subject, some of the earlier years may be more helpful. Many of us have made several posts explaining how it works, or how we use it...


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## Rreyes097

First and foremost let me apologize for my double a triple posts, I wasn't where my post should be to get the help I sought. I'm learning as I go. So a quick update, I scraped the last batch I wrote about, well I took the fingers out , which still had most the gold on them. And put them into a 2.5 gal? Bucket with holes drilled into bottom and air bubbler tubes inside. I added blank curcuit boards with various quantities of gold plating. The circuit boards are cut into smaller pieces and they weighed roughly 11 ozs. And the fingers ( which were wet still) added another 6 to 8 ozs. The bucket went into a 5 gal bucket and I added 1000ml of muriatic acid (low fume stuff), and 150 ml hydrogen peroxide (regular store bought 3%?) So does anyone see any issues with what I've got going? The big bucket required I use lots of muriatic acid to cover materials. Too much hydrogen peroxide? It's coloring is an emerald green kind of dark but not too much. I've been reading Steve's material like crazy and my problem with last batch other then heat was too small of a beaker, and magnetic gold platedpins? Am I correct? Thank you for all the advice! Tomorrow im attempting to do reverse electric plating with stainless steel and copper mesh for plated pins and can I do gold filled and the same time? The cell will contain sulphuric acid, battery charger for power. Any advice is welcome. And thanks again!


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## butcher

You may have a little more hydrogen peroxide than would be ideal, but if you do not add more you should be fine. if you did use too much peroxide you will have gold dissolved some gold, which will plate back onto copper until the copper is consumed, leaving you with fine gold powders, with foils and solder mask trash. if this happened, just let the solution settle in the bottom of the bucket before decanting so you can recover any fine powdered gold.

Use a fish tank air compressor to supply air,and a stone. Or an air hose melted shut, and poke the tubing with a hot needle to put pin holes in sides of tubing. 

magnetic pins, probably Kovar, the iron displaces the copper from solution,(you can have a solution of both copper and iron chlorides) if enough iron is added to the solution will become iron chloride, basically a different solution, than the copper II chloride your using to dissolve copper.

I know your excited about what your studying, and want to try everything, and get gold from as much materials as you can. That can be an easy way to loose gold, when your first learning, using some very good scrap to learn on and and make mistakes with. When I first started, I done the same thing, I had some good material that I wish I would have saved, until I learned more. I recovered gold from it, but I believe it would have been more gold if I would have saved that material until after I had learned more.

I suggest being patient, work on learning one project at a time, follow it all the way through, your gold will still be there when your ready, and when your ready you will recover more of it...


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## FrugalRefiner

Rreyes097 said:


> The bucket went into a 5 gal bucket and I added 1000ml of muriatic acid (low fume stuff), and 150 ml hydrogen peroxide (regular store bought 3%?) So does anyone see any issues with what I've got going?
> 
> Tomorrow im attempting to do reverse electric plating with stainless steel and copper mesh for plated pins and can I do gold filled and the same time? The cell will contain sulphuric acid, battery charger for power. Any advice is welcome. And thanks again!


Rreyes, as butcher has suggested, you should slow down and spend more time studying before you jump in. The low fume HCl may cause you problems. Don't use stainless steel in your stripping cell. Gold filled will not do well in a stripping cell. All of this has been discussed before. Read, read, read. It will help you avoid these mistakes.

Dave


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## Rreyes097

Why will the low fume ma be a problem in my ap solution? And I understand about going slow, I really do, but I've attempted the ap a time or 2 before this with out reading and failed miserably. That is why I have been reading but I ask those questions because I couldn't remember or must have seen multiple answers. I'm simply discouraged and was looking to reverse electro plating. Ive seen the stainless steel work in re plating.


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## Rreyes097

Oh and i have the bubbler going too. Secondly, I asked about the golid plated pins that I'd like to try the reverse ep. On.


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## UncleBenBen

Rreyes, if you have yet to recover any gold with the AP method which is among the most basic of recovery processes taught here, then why in the world would you go straight to reverse electroplating that uses electricity and concentrated sulfuric acid?

If you fail at AP you can misplace some gold. If you fail with the sulfuric cell you can misplace some body parts.

As always Butcher and Dave have given great advice. Please do listen to them and devote time to studying before you get yourself or someone around you seriously hurt.

Out of curiosity, what have you done with all the acid and materials from your 'failed attempts'?


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## Rreyes097

I have them stored in jars for possible recovery later on, all coffee filters too. And I appreciate the concern, but im so frustrated. I've watched every video I've read everything I can without falling asleep to it forgive me for that, but I've devoted time to study, and every time it seems I miss one key factor such as magnetic material in ap solution, or too much heat. Etc... I'm safe with all my dealings with the acids, I have resperator, chemical resistant gloves, im working out side. I slowly go about my work and don't rush. Believe me I've got the message be safe! Now can someone please help? I listen to advice, just got too many sources telling a Lil about this and Lil about that. Plz, it is my hope to not come off rude. But all I hear is how simple it is. Then plz show me step from step 1 to the end and I will absorb the knowledge I promise u.


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## UncleBenBen

Rreyes, I promise it's not that difficult to do this IF you take the time to learn it the right way. (Also, no text lingo on the forum. It doesn't translate well to other languages)

Start with reading Hoke. Do the acquaintance tests she recommends as you read along. Those small scale tests will give you a great deal of understanding of the way these metals behave in solution and with each other. Do the tests and read as many times as it takes for it to sink in. Just stay with Hoke for now. Forget all the videos and other bits and pieces you've seen so far. 

Stay with it and you will be holding a nice shiny button before you know it. But it's not going to happen in a few days or weeks. Most of us have spent months studying before starting any small processes. Just be patient and do the study required and you WILL get there. Then you will find your place along side the rest of us lunatics!


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## upcyclist

I'm with Benben. I know it's frustrating to get started, but it really does help to just some reading and ask a few specific questions here and there. 

For your current problem with magnetic pins, try searching here on the forum for "Kovar pin processing" (the name for the common steel alloy used in magnetic pins) and/or "magnetic pin processing" and other similar variations. At the very least, you'll want to do them separately from your non-magnetic pins, as the dissolution rates will be different. 

As an exercise, try writing down your process from start to finish: exactly what you will be using, what you will be doing, _why_, and in what order. Think of it like you were going to post your process here (which you don't necessarily have to do), and you needed to be very specific about your planned process so we understand what's going on. For example, if you just write "I will dissolve my pins in A/P", people here would ask you: How many pins (weight)? How were they prepared prior to this step? How much HCl? How much hydrogen peroxide and when? Are you using a bubbler? What size & type container? For how long? Heat or no heat? What do you hope to accomplish? When will you know you are done? How do you prevent dissolving your gold, and what do you do if that happens? How are you testing?

It's a long, tedious exercise, but it will really help you focus on where you may not know as much as you think you do. There's not one correct answer to a lot of the questions above, but there are definitely some wrong ones (like, "equal parts HCl and peroxide"). If you can't answer every one for _your _process, then you haven't fully planned it out yet. And of course if you plan and execute it properly, your neighbors and heirs will thank you


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## jason_recliner

upcyclist said:


> As an exercise, try writing down your process from start to finish: exactly what you will be using, what you will be doing, _why_, and in what order. Think of it like you were going to post your process here (which you don't necessarily have to do), and you needed to be very specific about your planned process so we understand what's going on. For example, if you just write "I will dissolve my pins in A/P", people here would ask you: How many pins (weight)? How were they prepared prior to this step? How much HCl? How much hydrogen peroxide and when? Are you using a bubbler? What size & type container? For how long? Heat or no heat? What do you hope to accomplish? When will you know you are done? How do you prevent dissolving your gold, and what do you do if that happens? How are you testing?


This is great advice for new players. I did all of this in my head; I was sure that I could see the full plan from start to finish before I commenced. I'd been reading and youtubing for several weeks.
Boy, was I wrong. Writing it down would have been far better, as I made mistakes, had to rely on my memory, and ultimately changed process midstream.

Writing down a full plan, including safety contingencies and disposal, may also be helpful if the neighbours freak out and call the police - and you suddenly need to demonstrate that you are not running a meth lab.


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