# Newbie questions about a new start



## joheleh (Oct 25, 2013)

Hi everyone, i'm glad to be here and i hope it will be an interesting experience.

i've got a huge problem, i've collected some pc and mobiles scraps ( socket pins, jumpers, fingerboards etc etc) and i treated them with a proper nitric acid solution, after filtering all the stuff i've dossolved the gollected gold leaves in AR, what's now? i've tried adding urea and oxialic acid but nothing...no precipitation.





in a week i'll try the same process but with urea first and then SMB but i'm afraid i'll get no precipitation again.
the color of AR is yellowish-green....maybe there's too little quantity of gold to precipitate (200 gr of nice scraps)? please i wish to know what's wrong in my process.





i've another question, i've bought on ebay some mixed metals ingots (about 1Lb) with an estimated 1% of gold...anyone may tell me the best way to extract the gold?

that's the stuff i have to work:
HCl 33%
NitricAcid 68%
urea
SMB
distilled water

ps: i'm sorry for my english, i sincerely hope i'm comprehensible to you


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## joheleh (Oct 25, 2013)

this is AR+gold leaves+urea+distilled water



and here u are the ingots i've bought.





ty so much if u wanna answer me, i've tried to find some information by myself but i didn't found nothing specific for me, every kind of answers is good


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## patnor1011 (Oct 25, 2013)

That 4 ingots make nice paper weight. Do not try to attempt to extract anything from them as there is usually nothing in there. Waste of time and resources. Put it as a net loss, think about it as about learning experience.
There is nothing in ebay melted ingots. Nice polished bras nothing more. If you try to dissolve them, you will just create some amount of toxic waste you will have to deal with. 

Your first problem is simple, there is not much of material to get any sizable amount of gold not to mention that it is hard to precipitate gold from such dirty solution.

You need to study forum bit more. You did mistake to mix different material. Pins and plated material do have very small amount of gold to warrant dissolving, cell will be much better suited process.


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## joheleh (Oct 25, 2013)

in your opinion what's the best starting material to start with? the cleanest to work with?


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## joheleh (Oct 25, 2013)

I wish to try to dissolve them anyway...what will be the best system?


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## niteliteone (Oct 25, 2013)

joheleh said:


> I wish to try to dissolve them anyway...what will be the best system?


The best system is to actually LEARN what you are wanting to do :shock: 
You have already made so many mistakes, all I can say is STOP everything and learn what you have already done wrong. If you start another batch like this one you are going to loose that gold as well.


> I wish to try to dissolve them anyway.


Why would you want to waste $10 worth of acids to recover $1 worth of gold :shock: :?: :?: :?:


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## joheleh (Oct 25, 2013)

1% of 300gr are 3gr...120euros...so gimme a good tutorial link...


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## patnor1011 (Oct 25, 2013)

You need to understand that there is not even 0,1% in your bars. Did they come with assay certificate confirming there is 1% of gold in them?

No matter what you think or want to believe, there is no recoverable gold in them.
That is why they are being sold on ebay.
They are the way to part people with gold fever from their money.


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## Pantherlikher (Oct 25, 2013)

Greetings from Pennsylvania, USA.
I am Billy Scott (B.S.)
You bought inguts from ebay which have been melted together mixing your little gold with alot of other metals which are extremely difficult to seperate.
You need to learn alot to do it. Learn other stuff first. please...

The mixed lot of gold covered stuff would have been a nice start if you had 1 type and alot of it. All pictured is not enough to get any gold to see and touch.

Read the welcome section here and it will guide you to where you want to learn.

Right now, take all solutions you have and put a big copper bar in and cover for a week...allow pressure to escape.
This will drop any gold or anything else out as mud/ powder.

When you do this, store everything, keep collecting gold pieces. 

DO NOT get any more ebay bars of Brass! Might sound like you could get 3 G from what you have but it would cost way to much time and money right now.

Read the forum as best you can and ask if something does not make sense. Please tell us what language you speak and maybe some one here can help.

Good Luck
B.S.


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## joheleh (Oct 25, 2013)

Ty so much! Is it ok if i put in some copper pipes? Every solutions i have are diluted with distilled water...copper will work? Ty for all your answers...i'll study.
Ps: i'm from italy


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## Pantherlikher (Oct 25, 2013)

Welcome Italy. 
If you can cut the pipes and flatten them, great.
Gold and other PMs will plate onto the copper so it will be tough getting if from inside when you learn how. But ok if you have to, you have to.
Just store it all in a safe place and start learning.

Any Italians here or know a good translator? 
B.S.


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## niteliteone (Oct 26, 2013)

joheleh said:


> 1% of 300gr are 3gr...120euros...so gimme a good tutorial link...


Sorry, But for those gold blobs from ebay, their is no good link here on how to recover the gold from them. Several here have tried and most ended up with a mess.

You stated they contain 1% gold.
That is not correct. Try 0.1% gold.So those 300 grams of melted blobs will return about 0.3 grams or ~12 euros (with your numbers)

Here are a few links from here; (I searched for "gold blobs from ebay")
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=15366
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=17681
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=17780

These are just a few. There are many more here. Use the "google search bar" on the forum as it works better than the forum search function in the upper right corner.


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## solar_plasma (Oct 26, 2013)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=19431&p=196893#p196893


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## joheleh (Oct 26, 2013)

thanks a lot for all your answers and advices! i wish to show you a thing...here there are 1.5gr of gold in about 250ml of AR, as u can see the solution is pretty clear, i want to try to precipitate in a proper way, i was thinking to pour in a solution of SMB (15-20gr dissolved in distilled water). does the reaction need some heat? should i heat the solution during the pouring?...i've made a lot of mistakes with my previous refining, but i wish to make some practice with this clean solution. i'm reading hoke's books, but i wish someone of you can tell me just what i can do now with this cloroauric solution...an easy step at least to see precipitation...SMB or oxialic acid? ty so much, this is my last question on this post, after that i'll study the process properly...but for now i really want to precipitate gold


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## solar_plasma (Oct 26, 2013)

> you can tell me just what i can do now with this cloroauric solution



Just keep it the way it is (well...properly bottled, labelled and stored) until you have read some more. You should also always have some gold solution stored,so you can check your SnCl2, if it still works.


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## joheleh (Oct 26, 2013)

And if i want to extract gold?


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## jeneje (Oct 26, 2013)

joheleh said:


> And if i want to extract gold?


There are other steps you need to do before dropping gold out solution. Following the advice that has been given is your best course of action here, if you want to recover your gold.

As been posted already, put the solution up and read the guided tour and CM Hoke book on refining precious metals to obtain the knowledge you need.
Ken


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## joheleh (Oct 26, 2013)

ok but, you all speak to me as i'm the worst stupid on earth  i know i can't write so good in english but i'm not so young, not so stupid and i have some experience of laboratory  i've just asked what i should do to precipitate gold...it seems you don't wanna tell me the right process  maybe because we're in a forum and you're afraid to tell me something wrong. I've been in other forums and i know noobs are the worst category to take care of, but, i repeat, i really wanna try to recover the gold in this jar. I'll understand


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## solar_plasma (Oct 26, 2013)

> speak to me as i'm the worst stupid on earth



Absolutely not. If we would think so, you wouldnt have got any other advice, than to find another hobby. When we tell you what to read, it is an expression of respect. 

It is not done with just pricipitating and a valuable description wouln't be much shorter than the "basics" we expect you to read.


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## resabed01 (Oct 26, 2013)

joheleh said:


> ok but, you all speak to me as i'm the worst stupid on earth  i know i can't write so good in english but i'm not so young, not so stupid and i have some experience of laboratory  i've just asked what i should do to precipitate gold...it seems you don't wanna tell me the right process  maybe because we're in a forum and you're afraid to tell me something wrong. I've been in other forums and i know noobs are the worst category to take care of, but, i repeat, i really wanna try to recover the gold in this jar. I'll understand



Nobody here thinks you're stupid. You may not have perfect English but your "I want it now" attitude is coming across loud and clear.


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## jeneje (Oct 26, 2013)

joheleh said:


> ok but, you all speak to me as i'm the worst stupid on earth  i know i can't write so good in english but i'm not so young, not so stupid and i have some experience of laboratory  i've just asked what i should do to precipitate gold...it seems you don't wanna tell me the right process  maybe because we're in a forum and you're afraid to tell me something wrong. I've been in other forums and i know noobs are the worst category to take care of, but, i repeat, i really wanna try to recover the gold in this jar. I'll understand


I meant *No disrespect* towards you, nor do I think your stupid. Yes we could tell you what to do step by step to recover your gold. The question here is this? What would you learn. Would you know when to do the next step, would you know what precipitant to use? Maybe the solution has no gold in, do you know how to test it to see. Do you know what or how to make a test solution for gold. All these question I have just stated are part of the learning process.

If this offends you I am sorry. Just the way it is.
Ken


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## niteliteone (Oct 26, 2013)

joheleh said:


> ok but,* you all speak to me as i'm the worst stupid on earth*  i know i can't write so good in english but i'm not so young, not so stupid and i have some experience of laboratory  i've just asked what i should do to precipitate gold...it seems you don't wanna tell me the right process  maybe because we're in a forum and you're afraid to tell me something wrong. I've been in other forums and i know noobs are the worst category to take care of, but, i repeat, i really wanna try to recover the gold in this jar. I'll understand



Not true, I do Not feel you are any less smart than I am. 
At the same time I feel, you do not know, what you don't yet know.

What exactly is in the container you says has gold in solution :?: 
It looks pretty clear, you have done a good job so far, but is their any lead or tin in that solution :?: 
if yes, then they will mess up a clean gold drop or steal some of the gold.

Are their any PGM's in that solution :?: 
Do you have stannous chloride to test for PM's in solution :?: 
If not how will you know if you have any gold or PGM's in that solution after you add SMB :?: 

Do you have an excess of nitric in that solution :?: 
If so, SMB will Not drop any gold until that excess nitric is removed.

You said there is about 1.5 grams of gold in solution. That should all drop with 2 grams of SMB.
If it doesn't drop gold, just want to see gold powder keep adding SMB until you get gold powder, is the solution many would follow.
Is that your plan :?: 

We want you to learn how to get this solution to a point where, when you add that 2 grams of SMB ALL your gold will drop perfectly the first time.


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## AndyWilliams (Oct 26, 2013)

jeneje said:


> joheleh said:
> 
> 
> > ok but, you all speak to me as i'm the worst stupid on earth  i know i can't write so good in english but i'm not so young, not so stupid and i have some experience of laboratory  i've just asked what i should do to precipitate gold...it seems you don't wanna tell me the right process  maybe because we're in a forum and you're afraid to tell me something wrong. I've been in other forums and i know noobs are the worst category to take care of, but, i repeat, i really wanna try to recover the gold in this jar. I'll understand
> ...




And when you have Ken saying to stop and study, you've really run out of options!! Time to stop and study!


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## pattt (Oct 26, 2013)

:lol:


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## jeneje (Oct 26, 2013)

AndyWilliams said:


> jeneje said:
> 
> 
> > joheleh said:
> ...


Andy, I would be happy to help him, but, it is as you know the policy of this forum not to give step by step help!!! 
Ken


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## patnor1011 (Oct 26, 2013)

This is simply wrong statement.


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## AndyWilliams (Oct 26, 2013)

jeneje said:


> AndyWilliams said:
> 
> 
> > jeneje said:
> ...



I couldn't disagree more. No such policy exists. Why, I'm sure that if I had, somehow, messed up my latest batch of fingers, I could have found, here, in open forum, step by step help from an assortment of providers.


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## jeneje (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm not going to get caught up in this. :roll: 
Ken


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## JHS (Oct 26, 2013)

AndyWilliams.
you are not the newby this applies to
By Harold,
Lets start with the reason I'm posting this. If you fail to observe what I'm going to recommend, you'll be rewarded by being banned from the forum. The insanity of entitlement minded individuals coming here and demanding to be tutored on an individual basis, ignoring the admonition to read the recommended information, is going to come to an end, one way or another. 

If you'd like to get banned immediately, start asking questions without having followed our advice to read. I'm more than happy to accommodate you.


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## JHS (Oct 26, 2013)

I couldn't disagree more. No such policy exists. Why, I'm sure that if I had, somehow, messed up my latest batch of fingers, I could have found, here, in open forum, step by step help from an assortment of

Or you could use the search as recommended before asking.


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## butcher (Oct 26, 2013)

joheleh,
You are new here, welcome to the forum.
from your questions and comments I also see you are new to the art of recovery and refining gold, it looks like you have learned a few things, but still have much to learn, I can help you with instructions to precipitate the gold, but would that help you, I do not think so, (if you think it will the simplest method will be to put copper metal into the solution which will replace the gold from solution, then treat the solution for waste as described in the safety section dealing with waste).

Where I believe I can truly help you, is by encouraging you to study and find the answers, here you will learn to find answers to your questions, you can gain a better understanding of this process, and recovery and refining in general, you will learn to recover and refine metals in different situations.

If I give you and answer to a question, you have a solution to one problem, that is if you have learned enough to understand the answer given (this may be a little bit of help for one thing).

If I encourage you to study, and you do, you gain all of the answers to any problem, you gain an understanding, and with this understanding, you will not need to ask a question about everything you try to do, you will understand how to do things the right way, and understand how not to create problems, basically you learn this skill, you will not get that by a one answer to a question, or by following a step by step guide to get out of one problem, that only leads you to your nest question and your next problem to deal with, and you are left without the understanding or knowledge you need, basically you gain no skill.

So giving you the answer may help with this problem of precipitating your gold, but it can also be cheating you of the true solution to your problem, of not understanding or having the needed knowledge, or skills, by insisting you do the study needed, I feel I am helping you more.

joheleh, I hope this encourages you to seek the answers, and helps to lead you on a path of understanding and knowledge.



jeneje, 
That remark was uncalled for, it sounds like you wish to start trouble with what you disagree with, doing this puts you in the position of being a trouble maker, you know there is no such policy of not helping, or of giving step by step instruction, and you know if you wish to help you can. I think the members are trying to help joheleh by getting him started to helping himself through study, if you believe you can help him with one answer at a time why do you not try it, you two can do this through PM, but I feel you were not wanting to help him, and your interest was only to start trouble over your perceived point, and that is against the policy of this forum.
If you wish to answer this question do so, but do not try and make trouble, I have enjoyed having you here on the forum as a member, but have not enjoyed that bad attitude as of late.


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## JHS (Oct 26, 2013)

Butcher,
Based on Harolds post,
new and want to ask
joheleh should have been banned
after his first question,and not with two pages of questions.
JOHN


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## Pantherlikher (Oct 26, 2013)

Based on the first few posts of telling him to read how to learn to do it was good enough for anyone willing to learn.

joheleh, Read Hoke's book and it will help you learn how to drop nice clean gold.

Harold Stepped in and welcomed joheleh and then insisted to follow advise. The next step his joheleh's to either follow and learn or not. Up to him.

Why did you step in and cause more troubling posts? joheleh shouldn't be banned as yet. Every new person here begins this way. Should they all just be pushed away and banned? Get real and stop causing trouble...please...

B.S.


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## solar_plasma (Oct 27, 2013)

There are many examples for, when people came here and got directly answers to a special problem. Mostly this happens, when it is obvious that they are professionals and know their business.They don't want to learn refining, they just come here assuming refiners could help them with their speciallized knowledge. (And it is always a nice read to follow those threads!)

Also people who come, who have made their first experiences withsome batches e-scrap often get help directly to their present problem. Mostly if it it obvious, that they already are on the right way.

Then there are people who want to refine, but have made so many mistakes in one batch, which could have been avoided, if they only had searched and read the forum for some hours. They would have found "step-by-steps", but they still would not have understand the process, which is leading to more questions. Those are best helped with the step-by-step, which I actually have given in this thread.

Everybody may give him all the advices demanded. I don't. I give him those advices, which I know will be most valuable for him at the present time.


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## AndyWilliams (Oct 27, 2013)

JHS said:


> I couldn't disagree more. No such policy exists. Why, I'm sure that if I had, somehow, messed up my latest batch of fingers, I could have found, here, in open forum, step by step help from an assortment of
> 
> Or you could use the search as recommended before asking.


If you need help on how to post quotes, let me know, I can teach you without too much trouble!


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## Harold_V (Oct 27, 2013)

jeneje said:


> Andy, I would be happy to help him, but, it is as you know the policy of this forum not to give step by step help!!!
> Ken


That's not exactly true, but it is true in general. What we try to avoid here is giving an answer to ANYONE when the answer will just lead to more questions. That's why I keep telling these guys to read Hoke's book. From it a new reader will gain an understanding, so that when a question must be asked, it won't lead to a series of questions of "what do I do next?"

Joheleh----if you'd read that book, you'd already know the answers to the things you're asking. Read the damned book!

We've been through this all too many times. A new reader wants to know, and wants to know NOW. Well pisano, it just doesn't work that way. Would you expect to be able to learn to play the piano by asking a few questions? If not, why do you think you can learn proper refining in a few minutes? There's much to know, and it doesn't come fast and easy. It's made all the harder when you don't understand the basics. 

Joheleh---some words of advice. 
We don't cater to folks who don't understand the basics of refining. We used to, and the results are we now have a board that is a total mess---a mess from readers having to repeat the same things over and over, to the point where now it's hard to find anything of substance. If the board were to continue that practice, it would be reduced to being totally useless. We'd really like to avoid that, and we're doing it by *DEMANDING* that new readers do their homework, and not ask questions until such time that the information they seek will make sense to them. 

When you post on this board, do not use ANY text lingo. Do not, for example, use the letter u to replace the word "you". I will ban readers for nothing more than that. I am highly insulted that anyone would come to this forum and disrespect us in that way. We like to think of ourselves as cultured and educated individuals who know and understand language adequately. 

Do not allow your lack of command of the English language to be a problem for you. We understand that it is not your first language, and we make allowances for the mistakes that may be made. We're far more tolerant of such posts than we are of posts by those who profess to know English, but use it in a poor fashion. 

I expect this dog and pony show is going to come to an end. No more shots at one another. 

Read Hoke's book. Read it again. Read it until you UNDERSTAND what it teaches. Do not post questions until you have done so, and do.

That's asking too much, you say? 

Then quietly leave the board. We have no intentions of changing our posture. 

Harold


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## jeneje (Oct 27, 2013)

Forum members,

First, I would like to say my comment in an earlier post may have been misunderstood, for this I apologize, the term policy should not have been used. It is not a policy of this forum. With that said, it has been said many times on this forum that new members should read Hoke book before asking questions.

I should have used the term "spoon feeding" that term just don't sound right to me, but, fits when members are asking simple question they would know the answers too, if they had read the book. I choose to use the term 'step by step" instead. This to I should not have used.

My intentions was not to take shots at any member, nor this great forum. Spoon feeding new members to help them out of a situation is one thing, but, to do that every time helps no one. I could have not posted and just PM the member telling him how to denox the solution and dropped the gold. How to rid the solution of any tin and lead. How to make stannous chloride and what the test color would be. I choose not to do this. 

If I had done this, two things are happening then, one the new member is not learning anything and the next time he will expect it again. Second, and most important is, it is under mining what Harold has set forth here about spoon feeding new members. That is wrong. If members do this then there will always be new members expecting it instead of reading what they have been advised to do.

I think my comments were taken out of context, I was only trying to support what the other members had already posted.

Ken


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## butcher (Oct 27, 2013)

Ken (jeneje),
Thank you for clarifying your point on this subject, I did take the comment in your post wrong, and I was wrong to accuse you of being a trouble maker, I have enjoyed having you as a forum member, and look forward to us both enjoying this forum together, and both of us helping those where we can, and both learning from others here, I hope you accept my apology for misunderstanding of your comment above.


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## jeneje (Oct 27, 2013)

butcher said:


> Ken (jeneje),
> Thank you for clarifying your point on this subject, I did take the comment in your post wrong, and I was wrong to accuse you of being a trouble maker, I have enjoyed having you as a forum member, and look forward to us both enjoying this forum together, and both of us helping those where we can, and both learning from others here, I hope you accept my apology for misunderstanding of your comment above.


Butcher, thank you, but, it is I who owe the apologies, I have enjoyed this forum for a few years and have learned way more from it's members then I will ever be able to give back. Misunderstanding happen, and I should have handled the post in a different way now since it was brought to my attention. I have a great respect for you and this forum and would never do anything to degrade it intentionally.

I hope we all can move forward to better the forum and ourselves. 

Ken


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