# I feel like it's a waste....



## Rachello (Jan 28, 2018)

My name is Rachel & it's really nice to finally meet all of you,

First & foremost, I am not a noob, I am definitely guilty of lurking & on that premise I ask my first question...

I have been a member for years. All of you and the thousands of posts I have read have first taught me to refine gold...Of which I failed miserably! The next thousand and about a yr later I refined & melted my first 99.5+ nugget!! I cannot explain how my heart soared with that success! Finally! So many yrs of reading & research & not giving up & I achieved the long saught after and deserved product! I thank all of you for providing an avenue to accurately learn & obtain my goals! 

Not a month went by and I was obsessed with the sisters. I have since refined roughly 17oz of palladium & 9oz of platinum (rhodium, iridium, rhuthenium etc. are waiting in my stockpot for another day). The place I sell it to was so amazed! Their RXF machines showed 99.8 purity, it was a first for them & also myself!...Again I thank you guys! It's unbelievable the wisdom on this forum! "Go Forth" and the answers you seek shall be there...Or something of the sort

I am now refining gold, platinum group metals, tin, zinc (which I mainly re-use in my Pt , Pd refining) and copper(which I also use in solution & sell all extra). My question is this... What do I make of all the silver plate? As of right now it gets coagulated into whatever base metal it is attached too. 

I feel like this is a huge waste as I have so much silver plate just waiting for Midas to touch it. I understand the cost analysis, aka we make no $$ on silver plate, I have also read about growing crystalline silver. There is such little information out there (&I have searched!). From an artistic point of view, they are quite beautiful. I would just like to find a way to take advantage of this beautiful metal other than the base it's attached too. 

Any and all type of suggestions are welcome. If there is anyone out there that salvages this precious metal in any way, please spread your wealth of knowledge for I am a sponge & your knowledge is not lost but (lol) refined. 

So sorry I've been lurking for so long! Let's just chalk it up to I've been busy reading & learning

Rachel


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## nickvc (Jan 28, 2018)

As far as I know there is no safe way to strip the plate economically or safely that I could recommend to anyone.
As to growing crystals in a cell there is at least one old thread which discusses this but I’m afraid I can’t remeber the member involved but if you search I’m sure you will find it.


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## Owltech (Jan 28, 2018)

Silver stripping cell with sodium sulphite (Na2SO3) electrolyte. Na2SO3 can be prepared from SMB and NaOH. I have tried it and it looks VERY promising. Downside: sulphite is oxidised to sulphate by O2 from the air.
link with my experiment:
https://youtu.be/aAh8El8K74A


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## goldandsilver123 (Jan 29, 2018)

I used to do silver plating with 95% sulfuric acid (98%) and 5% nitric acid (~69%) at 80 °C but it's extremely dangerous solution. The solution is acid, oxidative and dehydrating :evil: 

I would recommend you to inquart your gold with the silver plated items, that way you recover the silver and don't have to deal this solution.


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## Owltech (Jan 29, 2018)

goldandsilver123 said:


> I used to do silver plating with 95% sulfuric acid (98%) and 5% nitric acid (~69%) at 80 °C but it's extremely dangerous solution. The solution is acid, oxidative and dehydrating :evil:
> 
> I would recommend you to inquart your gold with the silver plated items, that way you recover the silver and don't have to deal this solution.



Yes, that's why I didn't offer it!


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## nickvc (Jan 30, 2018)

Owltech said:


> goldandsilver123 said:
> 
> 
> > I used to do silver plating with 95% sulfuric acid (98%) and 5% nitric acid (~69%) at 80 °C but it's extremely dangerous solution. The solution is acid, oxidative and dehydrating :evil:
> ...




I was offered a lot of material to strip and this method was the only way to do it, it’s not a clever mix, and I turned it down and it’s the reason I didn’t post it.


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## kurtak (Jan 30, 2018)

nickvc said:


> As far as I know there is no safe way to strip the plate economically or safely that I could recommend to anyone.



All though I have never tried it I have wondered about it

What about cyanide stripping of silver plated items - as in the same process as cyanide stripping of gold plated items - & then running an electro "winning" cell to recover the silver

Kurt


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## goldandsilver123 (Jan 30, 2018)

kurtak said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I know there is no safe way to strip the plate economically or safely that I could recommend to anyone.
> ...



I think it says for itself when people are suggesting cyanide as a safe alternative hehehe

The good thing about this process is that copper is not attacked.

There is another post with this procedure on the forum, it's an old one I think.


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## Owltech (Feb 1, 2018)

Na2SO3 electrolyte is a safe alternative

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1134/S107036321105001X


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## Rachello (Feb 1, 2018)

Thanks for all of your replies! 
Way back when I first started experimenting & I did not feel comfortable using the more dangerous chemicals, I built something like a silver cell & silver plated a bunch of pennies for my nieces & nephews. 

I can’t remember how I did it, it was years ago...I will have to go through my notebooks to see. I do remember it was a sodium & something solution. I might be crazy but I think it was something like vinegar. 

I do remember that I used silver-plated flatware to plate the pennies. I don’t remember if I used old(copper) pennies or newer ones. Maybe I could use something like this to heavily plate onto lead (1st option) or copper, inquart & then cupellate? It would have to be plated on thickly to be worth it. 

I have a bunch of employees out w/ the flu so I’ve been working doubles & then some! Soon as I get a minute I’ll go through all my notebooks 

Thanks again!
Rachel


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## snoman701 (Feb 1, 2018)

I understand the feeling, but the waste is the time you are investing to recover a small amount of silver. The only reason plated gold is economical to go after is because it's 1300 an ounce. That's what, 80x the value of the silver?

Time is the most valuable resource.

The best use for silver plated ware is still as an addition to low grade electronic boards to get the copper content high enough for it to collect well.


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## anachronism (Feb 2, 2018)

Amazing isn't it? Call yourself a girl's name and you can make two posts with so many holes in them that it's like swiss cheese yet people will fall all over you to be helpful.

Read the language guys, read the ACTUAL words and forget the forum name and then tell me you would take this seriously if the user was called Dave.


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## Rachello (Feb 25, 2018)

See now. Your response is why I’ve never asked one question, EVER. In all the years I needed the confidence of success. All the years, all the hours reading & learning & I’m not nearly done. In the end I stopped needing to ask people like you that judge & dig a hole ahead of time. That is just in case u want to throw someone in it. 

You use no big words, say nothing of fact but what YOU DO is attack the fact that I’m a girl? I don’t need your input, I’ve given birth to 3 babies; one of which was 7 months ago. I have no lies or hidden devices. 

People like you hide behind their nasty tweets. (Miss, let’s leave your address off the forum—Lou).

People like you whoever you are hurt this forum. People like you are the reason I never asked anything. You are an embarrassment & should be removed. 
Rach


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## anachronism (Feb 26, 2018)

Really?


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## niks neims (Feb 26, 2018)

Rachello said:


> attack the fact that I’m a girl?



Just a friendly warning - you probably should not share your real name here - I am no stalker, but you look much too nice in your facebook profile to be inviting some random internet creeps to look at it 

-Artūrs


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## Topher_osAUrus (Feb 26, 2018)

kurtak said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I know there is no safe way to strip the plate economically or safely that I could recommend to anyone.
> ...



A couple old plating books I have mention using cyanide as an electrolyte to strip silver plate as well as gold plate. One is by Watt, the other is alluding me at the moment..

And, I believe one may mention just using it (CN) as a regular etching agent. (probably not with much success, since the copper would be fighting going into solution too, and any zinc in the base metals [i.e. german silver core silver plate stuff, or brass] would be cementing value as well)

It seems though, that the majority of them suggest using the piranha mix for it ( I believe this is solely because sulfuric at that strength isnt too keen on copper) 

No matter how you look at it, its just not the best type of scrap to work with. At all.


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## FrugalRefiner (Feb 28, 2018)

Rachel, I don't often defend Jon, but in this case I think you've misinterpreted his comments.

I did not read anything in his post that attacked the fact that you were a girl. Jon, among others, has been a proponent of gathering sufficient information from those asking questions to provide valid answers. As I read his post, he was commenting about other members offering suggestions before learning more about the material you're dealing with. Asking about silver plate is common here because many people are looking for the same answers. You got a few more replies than some others have in the past, and I saw Jon's post as chiding some of the other members, not you.

As to his comments about holes in your process, I'm guessing he's referring to your second post about building a silver cell using silver plated items to plate pennies, perhaps using vinegar. Silver cells are standard equipment for most refiners who deal with silver, and they are discussed in great detail here, but not like what you described.

We recently had a thread about avoiding confrontations on the forum. My advice is that if you find another member's post offensive and in violation of forum rules, you should report it to the moderators, then walk away and let us do our job.

There are some threads about using a water cell to deplate silver. I haven't had the opportunity to try it yet, but you might find something helpful. Some people use difficult to recover silver in cementation or their stock pots.

As Topher said, it's just not the best scrap to work with.

Dave


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## Shark (Mar 1, 2018)

If your silver is plated over copper it would be a viable option for a copper sulfate cell or a chloride cell. Silver chloride and silver sulfate took quite a bit of learning for me, actually I am still learning. The water cell Dave mentions is also an option and while I have been deplating using one, I still have to try to recover the silver from the slime's. There is a lot of information been posted on thread about the water cell that will help.


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## Rachello (Mar 4, 2018)




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## Rachello (Mar 4, 2018)

& the last 2 pics


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## Rachello (Mar 4, 2018)

Took me a minute too go through all the notebooks I have....for those that question these are pics from my original notebooks from my " Silver Cell". If you can read my chicken scratch all the power to ya! I don't have the time to translate 

Not sure why they didn't post in order but if you want to read it the way I wrote it, it goes like this:

Pic# 1
Pic# 5
Pic# 4 
Pic# 3
Pic# 2 
Pic# 7
Pic# 6

Rachel


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## Rachello (Mar 5, 2018)

HEY! 
& just a quick thanks u guys for your positive input!!!

-R-


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## nickvc (Mar 5, 2018)

Rachel don’t get spikey it’s pointless, you seem to have a fairly good handle on most aspects and could offer hope to the female lurkers amongst the many male ones I’m sure the forum has. 
As to your original question I think that has been answered but I still believe that there is no safe efficient method for small quantities and if you have access to large quantities then the sulphuric nitric mix will work but is extremely unpleasant and dangerous because to work well it needs to be used hot which makes very good extraction for the fumes essential as does the need for efficient scrubbing of the fumes, one mistake or slip up and it will be very nasty.

As has been pointed out this scrap is perhaps the least profitable we encounter, I would prefer to work with e scrap which though low grade will provide a decent return,if you can source reasonable quantities, for the work involved but by choice would work with jewellers wastes.

If for you this is just a science project then perhaps look at the water cell if profit isn’t your goal.


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## anachronism (Mar 5, 2018)

To be honest I think the notes are great.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Mar 5, 2018)

Yes, good note taking, or proper documentation of a project is vital. 
Especially if you are going to be revisiting something 10 years down the line.
Or 12, I guess its 2018 now, huh?


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## Lou (Mar 5, 2018)

Just as an aside...if you want to silver plate a penny, use Tollen's reagent. Dissolve 100 mg or so of silver nitrate in 5 of ammonia water, then add formalin solution dropwise while swirling the penny in a plastic container.


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## Rachello (Mar 5, 2018)

Thanks for the advice! While I'm not planning on building my future on silver plated pennies...Lou I already wrote your recipe down for a rainy day. I'm going to read up on the water cell as a now-I-need to-know-it habit of mine! 

I really haven't worked with that much silver, but I do have a LOT of material that consists of many types of noble & precious metals. I think just the mass quantity off it can be overwhelming. To me I see it as unfinished business that every day I have to look @ be reminded to do something about it. I spoke with 4metals & he gave me a few good leads that I am looking into. Thanks!

I'm a tad bit obsessive compulsive with my journal keeping and have quite a lot & I mean LOTS! I knew I had about a 4-5 year span to go through & I ended up on yr 6 before I finally found it! Instead of just skimming I actually READ all the experiments, projects & ideas I wrote down. So So many things that went unsolved or I just didn't have the time or $ to take it further. 

Essentially I opened Pandora's box & while I was reading I wrote down about 50 pages of questions I now have to find the answers too! :shock: So thanks for that as well! 

& Anachronism---thanks for your response...Maybe we got off on the wrong foot & Im willing to clean that slate if you are :wink: think about it. 

Till next time..
Rachel


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