# How can I get a patent on a product



## goldnugget77 (Nov 19, 2009)

Hi Folks
I have an idea for making a product
I think its original and I would like to get a patent on this idea
I did do some research but that didn't help.
I have e-mailed this idea to myself in a way to protect my idea.
Question 1
How can I know if someone doesn't already have a patent on this idea

Question 2
Can I get a patent for this idea or is it too simple

Question 3
If I have 20% of ingredient 1
If I have 20% of ingredient 2
If I have 60% of ingredient 3

This is just an example
can someone else get a patent on the same concept by changing the % of each ingredient.

Thanks


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## markqf1 (Nov 19, 2009)

All good questions for a patent attorney.

I have seen different patents for different processes, but in general, pm refining has been around for a long time.
Good Luck!

Mark


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## goldnugget77 (Nov 19, 2009)

Hi markqf1
Thanks for your reply
My idea is not for Gold refining
It is a different field
Maybe this is not an appropriate place but we have Gsp and Steve that know a bit about patents and also it will be a good topic for people to know about.


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## Gold Trail (Jan 24, 2010)

Awhile back, a guy named Don Lancaster wrote abook called The case against patents.

I have not read it, but apparently, pattents arnt all they are chocked up to be


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## Irons (Jan 24, 2010)

Patents are only good if you have the money to defend them. I learned the hard way. Trade Secrets are the best way to go.


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## ander (Jan 24, 2010)

Irons is one of smartest people I meet on this forum . 
Professor who evaluated my thesis in university had like 10 patents for some methods of nanomaterials synthesis. They were virtually useless because there were no needs for that types of materials. Even if now someone is interested with them, couple of years they were cost ineffective, patents don't last forever and time is running. One can check claims with patent attorney help and find gaps, then try to patent oneself the "patches", some things can be changed. I personally researched couple of thousands of patents and must admit my friend who says that patents are bad thing about human civilization. It may be read as a 'loosers speech' but I agree that patents themselves can be evil quite often. Imagine that this forum does not exist and all the authorities here want you to pay for sharing knowledge. Patent is an idea and how can idea be dedicated to limited group of persons. It's absurdal. Best way to protect your business is just not to share with your detailed knowledge. If the idea is so obvious and visible to others that only patent can "protect
" you try to find investors, this only can be managed if your idea is really good and you can sell it. Otherwise only priority gives you opportunity to make some good money. Excuse me my "loosers" speech, I'll try not to putmy philosophy here. Search for Babbite alloys- one of classic example how hard is to write your patent claim right.


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## Irons (Jan 24, 2010)

ander said:


> Irons is one of smartest people I meet on this forum .
> Professor who evaluated my thesis in university had like 10 patents for some methods of nanomaterials synthesis. They were virtually useless because there were no needs for that types of materials. Even if now someone is interested with them, couple of years they were cost ineffective, patents don't last forever and time is running. One can check claims with patent attorney help and find gaps, then try to patent oneself the "patches", some things can be changed. I personally researched couple of thousands of patents and must admit my friend who says that patents are bad thing about human civilization. It may be read as a 'loosers speech' but I agree that patents themselves can be evil quite often. Imagine that this forum does not exist and all the authorities here want you to pay for sharing knowledge. Patent is an idea and how can idea be dedicated to limited group of persons. It's absurdal. Best way to protect your business is just not to share with your detailed knowledge. If the idea is so obvious and visible to others that only patent can "protect
> " you try to find investors, this only can be managed if your idea is really good and you can sell it. Otherwise only priority gives you opportunity to make some good money. Excuse me my "loosers" speech, I'll try not to putmy philosophy here. Search for Babbite alloys- one of classic example how hard is to write your patent claim right.



I'm flattered, but, then, if I'm so smart, how come I'm not rich? 8)


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## ander (Jan 24, 2010)

Wise people don't need to be rich to live happiely, they try to accept what life brings to them. I read about one over 50yo man with engineer (bachelor) and msc degree, knowing 3 foreign languages, working for miserable money as charcoal burner because he wanted to be free. Carlin said once something about 'stuff' and that suits me well.


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## Anonymous (Jan 24, 2010)

ander said:


> Wise people don't need to be rich to live happiely, they try to accept what life brings to them. I read about one over 50yo man with engineer (bachelor) and msc degree, knowing 3 foreign languages, working for miserable money as charcoal burner because he wanted to be free. Carlin said once something about 'stuff' and that suits me well.




Charcoal burner, making loosy money? Last time I baught charcoal, the real kind, not brickets (that are half or better filler) it was not cheap.

Jim


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## ander (Jan 25, 2010)

If you buy a funnelcake on AC/NJ boardwalk and is $5 it does not mean the farmer gets $3 for the baking ingredients. In Poland 2,5kg of pine charcoal is $3-5. More sophisticated types like birch or other are like 8-20$/kg. One man can make up to 800-1000kg of charcoal/day and he gets, guess that... like $25-40. I used to live in Silesia although I'm cracovian, when I went by train east of Cracow for the first time i felt like going to Siberia. Poland isn't a big country and it's highly populated. The man I mentioned about works in place Bieszczady- in mountains. Name of the mountains- as I was explained- comes from "devils fumes(carbon monoxide)". This place is like 50miles from the nearest big city but average Joe from Europe feels like in the end of the world. That's why the payment is so miserable, but you have astonishing views form your hut.


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## Irons (Jan 25, 2010)

ander said:


> If you buy a funnelcake on AC/NJ boardwalk and is $5 it does not mean the farmer gets $3 for the baking ingredients. In Poland 2,5kg of pine charcoal is $3-5. More sophisticated types like birch or other are like 8-20$/kg. One man can make up to 800-1000kg of charcoal/day and he gets, guess that... like $25-40. I used to live in Silesia although I'm cracovian, when I went by train east of Cracow for the first time i felt like going to Siberia. Poland isn't a big country and it's highly populated. The man I mentioned about works in place Bieszczady- in mountains. Name of the mountains- as I was explained- comes from "devils fumes(carbon monoxide)". This place is like 50miles from the nearest big city but average Joe from Europe feels like in the end of the world. That's why the payment is so miserable, but you have astonishing views form your hut.



It's the same with farmers. Check the price of a bushel of wheat and realize it will make 100 loaves of bread. Now check the price of bread.

The middlemen make all the money.


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## glorycloud (Jan 25, 2010)

Math 101 with Irons! :lol: 

We should all "Do the Math" in life!! 8)


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 25, 2010)

Irons said:


> It's the same with farmers. Check the price of a bushel of wheat and realize it will make 100 loaves of bread. Now check the price of bread.
> 
> The middlemen make all the money.



They call it making them lean and mean. All is does it put the family farm out of buisness, everything going to corporate farming. I have watched the live hog prices not fluctuate much in the last 20 yrs since I was in it, until recently I have seen a spike in prices.

Our American way of life being thrown out the window with the trash and disposable goods.


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 25, 2010)

The last I heard, it costs about $20,000 to go through all the legal ramifications to get a patent. You can get a year's protection for about $80 (last figure I heard) doing a patent pending thing.


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## golddie (Jan 25, 2010)

Hi Gsp
That 80 dollar deal sounds good
I wonder if a person can get a patent pending on an ivention year after year or do you have to get a patent after the first year


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 25, 2010)

It's only a one time deal. You'll have to go to the USPTO site to get full details. I think it is called a provisional patent application. As I understand, it came about in 1995 primarily for small inventors. I really don't know much about this. I do think the fee is now $165, which is half the normal fee. You'll just have to research it yourself. Confusing stuff.

"Provisional Application for a Patent

Since June 8, 1995, the USPTO has offered inventors the option of filing a provisional application for patent which was designed to provide a lower cost first patent filing in the United States and to give U.S. applicants parity with foreign applicants. Claims and oath or declaration are NOT required for a provisional application. Provisional application provides the means to establish an early effective filing date in a patent application and permits the term “Patent Pending” to be applied in connection with the invention. Provisional applications may not be filed for design inventions.

The filing date of a provisional application is the date on which a written description of the invention, and drawings if necessary, are received in the USPTO. To be complete, a provisional application must also include the filing fee, and a cover sheet specifying that the application is a provisional application for patent. The applicant would then have up to 12 months to file a non-provisional application for patent as described above. The claimed subject matter in the later filed non-provisional application is entitled to the benefit of the filing date of the provisional application if it has support in the provisional application. If a provisional application is not filed in English, and a non-provisional application is filed claiming benefit to the provisional application, a translation of the provisional application will be required. See title 37, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 1.78(a)(5).

Provisional applications are NOT examined on their merits. A provisional application will become abandoned by the operation of law 12 months from its filing date. The 12-month pendency for a provisional application is not counted toward the 20-year term of a patent granted on a subsequently filed non-provisional application which claims benefit of the filing date of the provisional application.

A surcharge is required for filing the basic filing fee or the cover sheet on a date later than the filing of the provisional application."


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## dfwliquidators (Oct 5, 2011)

You can start here, Google and read. It is as complex as getting lawyers degree. Big corporations want it that way so they are protected and mom and pops are not filling patents. It is expensive. Ask quetion, what is commercial value of your findings.

http://www.uspto.gov/patents/resources/types/provapp.jsp

Idea is not patentable. Results should submitted with idea.
Do research on some patent site and see some one has similar patent or not. Some are paid sites or emplyess of some big technology companies have excess to database.


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