# Looking for advice as I am finishing the first phase of the AP process



## Ag and Au (Aug 3, 2022)

I would like to start this thread off with two simple words: Thank you. 

You guys offer clear and erudite advice ranging from the "gold recovery/refining mindset" to the "abstract" to the "practical" to the "safety" and everywhere in between. It was so important to me (as a beginner) to settle in, read, slow down, learn, think and manage my expectations. This is an exciting hobby and you guys enhance this pleasure.

Last month, I mixed a batch of AP and placed several pounds of circuit boards inside the 5 gallon bucket. These boards showed high gold visibility but had lots of electronic components soldered onto them. I have since realized that I used too much peroxide. The result is that the boards are now bare/stripped and that much of the gold and copper (and probably the nickel) had dissolved. I am left with a pile of cemented gold (black powder), gold foils, electronic components and "God knows what-else" at the bottom of my bucket. A stannous test is negative. My questions are:

1) I am currently using two, separate buchner filter flasks to speed up the filter stage. Lots of black powder stayed in the small filters. Is there a better way to filter this much liquid? 
2) What is the best way to chemically rinse this black powder once it is filtered and in what order? i.e., HCL.... Distilled Water.....Ammonia?
3) And should I heat the rinse?
4) Can I include the filters in the rinse?
5) The AP liquid is now very dark (Black). How do I responsibly dispose of it after filtering it?

Thank you in advance.


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 3, 2022)

Ag and Au said:


> I would like to start this thread off with two simple words: Thank you.
> 
> You guys offer clear and erudite advice ranging from the "gold recovery/refining mindset" to the "abstract" to the "practical" to the "safety" and everywhere in between. It was so important to me (as a beginner) to settle in, read, slow down, learn, think and manage my expectations. This is an exciting hobby and you guys enhance this pleasure.
> 
> ...


Well you are on the right path after a couple of bad turns.
There probably was little gold in the first place. But since you added too much Peroxide you dissolved some/ much of the gold and it cemented out.
Nothing will show in a stannous test unless it is in solution as ions.
Colloids and cemented powder will not show.
Your issue now is at least two fold.
You need to flush off and filter all loose powders from the solution.
Then if there are visible metals left, dissolve as much as possible of this, without dissolving more gold.
The flush really good and filter again.
Then you can assume most or at least as much as can be expected of the Gold is ready for refining by AR or better HCl/Peroxide or bleach.
Then drop by preferred method.
After this clean the powders in hot/boiling HCl and water alternately.

Edited for spelling


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## Ag and Au (Aug 5, 2022)

Should I dilute the HCL (it is now 32%) before I perform the hot rinse?


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 5, 2022)

Ag and Au said:


> Should I dilute the HCL (it is now 32%) before I perform the hot rinse?


You can, it will create less fumes then.


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## Ag and Au (Aug 5, 2022)

and at what temp and how long?


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 5, 2022)

You just boil it for a while, alternating HCl and water until the liquid has no more color.
The liquids go the the stock pot after of course.


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## Ag and Au (Aug 8, 2022)

Thank you. Good advice. That worked fine.

I am working outside in a large backyard with small quantities of AP and HCL ( < 1 liter). Should I be concerned about the fumes? Naturally, I am not putting my face over the beaker. I am wearing all other necessary PPE.


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## Martijn (Aug 8, 2022)

Ag and Au said:


> 5) The AP liquid is now very dark (Black). How do I responsibly dispose of it after filtering it?


If you intend to dissolve more material in the future, just add HCl and air to regenerate the AP.


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## smcg924 (Aug 13, 2022)

Ag and Au said:


> Thank you. Good advice. That worked fine.
> 
> I am working outside in a large backyard with small quantities of AP and HCL ( < 1 liter). Should I be concerned about the fumes? Naturally, I am not putting my face over the beaker. I am wearing all other necessary PPE.


Hello I am new here as well and probably the least educated in chemistry with an interest in changing that partially due to my carelessness using AR and the fumes that could’ve killed me and any other family members in the house. I have a respirator but due to my experience in the Masonry trade for 20+ years using HCL Frequently to clean brick and stone I didn’t think much of it we never wore respirators doing that however upon hearing of my recent experiment my uncle told me that nitric acid can be extremely harmful I thought he was overreacting. I just happen to find a gold testing kit with seven different bottles of it inside the kit, I recently started prospecting after finding some peculiar material on a hike so my logical mind said well if I can test this material With this acid in it so it began. Then I learned that I can mix it with HCl and create aqua Regia which I had already started trying to dissolve some of these rocks with HCl to leave behind any PM that was available (as you can see I got a lot of time on my hands plus I’m kind of a dumb ass) oh and hard up for money. Anyway I was using awkward easier on some batches of rock and some concentrates that I had in several buckets. I actually ended up with a lot of gold flakes and dust in the bottom of each container after soaking material so naturally I rinsed the material but didn’t really pour everything off because I didn’t want to lose what I had and don’t have a decent filtration system I mean I’m literally using scrap buckets Tupperware bowls etc. I tried using a paint filter but the acid went right through it anyway I thought deleting it and rinsing it was enough but when I was pounding my clients the fumes really got to me and I was panning for hours in my room because I was getting such awesome results and the fact that I had finally received a set of gold pans that day but started feeling kinda lightheaded and followed by three days of hallucinations wheezing and the sensation that I was experience in an earthquake several times upon hearing this my uncle told me that I need to remove all acids from the house immediately and fix my respirator as the exhaust valve had been missing. Told me how the fumes can get in your lungs and you really won’t know what’s going on until you literally drown from your lungs filling up with water. Just thought I would share this any other new people or if you’re thinking about not using a respirator there’s nothing macho about it it’s just plain ignorant or lazy so now that you know, anyone listening don’t be lazy or careless, I could have killed my mom and she’s getting up there in age finally retired to enjoy life then bam her dumbass son takes her out playing with acids! I couldn’t live with that so I hope nobody makes a risky move like I did. Thanks and sorry if anything hard to read or understand as used voice to text


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## smcg924 (Aug 13, 2022)

“Pounding my Clients” Supposed to be “panning my concentrates” It wasn’t intentional but you will get a lot of laughs having me here if that’s welcome


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 13, 2022)

smcg924 said:


> Hello I am new here as well and probably the least educated in chemistry with an interest in changing that partially due to my carelessness using AR and the fumes that could’ve killed me and any other family members in the house. I have a respirator but due to my experience in the Masonry trade for 20+ years using HCL Frequently to clean brick and stone I didn’t think much of it we never wore respirators doing that however upon hearing of my recent experiment my uncle told me that nitric acid can be extremely harmful I thought he was overreacting. I just happen to find a gold testing kit with seven different bottles of it inside the kit, I recently started prospecting after finding some peculiar material on a hike so my logical mind said well if I can test this material With this acid in it so it began. Then I learned that I can mix it with HCl and create aqua Regia which I had already started trying to dissolve some of these rocks with HCl to leave behind any PM that was available (as you can see I got a lot of time on my hands plus I’m kind of a dumb ass) oh and hard up for money. Anyway I was using awkward easier on some batches of rock and some concentrates that I had in several buckets. I actually ended up with a lot of gold flakes and dust in the bottom of each container after soaking material so naturally I rinsed the material but didn’t really pour everything off because I didn’t want to lose what I had and don’t have a decent filtration system I mean I’m literally using scrap buckets Tupperware bowls etc. I tried using a paint filter but the acid went right through it anyway I thought deleting it and rinsing it was enough but when I was pounding my clients the fumes really got to me and I was panning for hours in my room because I was getting such awesome results and the fact that I had finally received a set of gold pans that day but started feeling kinda lightheaded and followed by three days of hallucinations wheezing and the sensation that I was experience in an earthquake several times upon hearing this my uncle told me that I need to remove all acids from the house immediately and fix my respirator as the exhaust valve had been missing. Told me how the fumes can get in your lungs and you really won’t know what’s going on until you literally drown from your lungs filling up with water. Just thought I would share this any other new people or if you’re thinking about not using a respirator there’s nothing macho about it it’s just plain ignorant or lazy so now that you know, anyone listening don’t be lazy or careless, I could have killed my mom and she’s getting up there in age finally retired to enjoy life then bam her dumbass son takes her out playing with acids! I couldn’t live with that so I hope nobody makes a risky move like I did. Thanks and sorry if anything hard to read or understand as used voice to text


Can you please use punctuation and line changes. This is for all practical purposes unreadable.


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## smcg924 (Aug 14, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Can you please use punctuation and line changes. This is for all practical purposes unreadable.


Agreed!! I should have moved my last sentence up to the beginning


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 14, 2022)

smcg924 said:


> Hello I am new here as well and probably the least educated in chemistry with an interest in changing that partially due to my carelessness using AR and the fumes that could’ve killed me and any other family members in the house. I have a respirator but due to my experience in the Masonry trade for 20+ years using HCL Frequently to clean brick and stone I didn’t think much of it we never wore respirators doing that however upon hearing of my recent experiment my uncle told me that nitric acid can be extremely harmful I thought he was overreacting. I just happen to find a gold testing kit with seven different bottles of it inside the kit, I recently started prospecting after finding some peculiar material on a hike so my logical mind said well if I can test this material With this acid in it so it began. Then I learned that I can mix it with HCl and create aqua Regia which I had already started trying to dissolve some of these rocks with HCl to leave behind any PM that was available (as you can see I got a lot of time on my hands plus I’m kind of a dumb ass) oh and hard up for money. Anyway I was using awkward easier on some batches of rock and some concentrates that I had in several buckets. I actually ended up with a lot of gold flakes and dust in the bottom of each container after soaking material so naturally I rinsed the material but didn’t really pour everything off because I didn’t want to lose what I had and don’t have a decent filtration system I mean I’m literally using scrap buckets Tupperware bowls etc. I tried using a paint filter but the acid went right through it anyway I thought deleting it and rinsing it was enough but when I was pounding my clients the fumes really got to me and I was panning for hours in my room because I was getting such awesome results and the fact that I had finally received a set of gold pans that day but started feeling kinda lightheaded and followed by three days of hallucinations wheezing and the sensation that I was experience in an earthquake several times upon hearing this my uncle told me that I need to remove all acids from the house immediately and fix my respirator as the exhaust valve had been missing. Told me how the fumes can get in your lungs and you really won’t know what’s going on until you literally drown from your lungs filling up with water. Just thought I would share this any other new people or if you’re thinking about not using a respirator there’s nothing macho about it it’s just plain ignorant or lazy so now that you know, anyone listening don’t be lazy or careless, I could have killed my mom and she’s getting up there in age finally retired to enjoy life then bam her dumbass son takes her out playing with acids! I couldn’t live with that so I hope nobody makes a risky move like I did. Thanks and sorry if anything hard to read or understand as used voice to text



*Edited for readability. 
I was unable to comment on it the way it was.*



> Hello!
> I am new here as well and probably the least educated in chemistry, with an interest in changing that.
> Partially due to my carelessness using AR and the fumes that could’ve killed me and any other family members in the house.
> I have a respirator but due to my experience in the Masonry trade for 20+ years using HCL Frequently to clean brick and stone.
> ...


*The fumes from HCl and Nitric in particular can not be filtered by filters, since they are gases.
There are emergency filters that will buy you time, but they are one-time use and expensive.*

Can you please post a step by step on what you did, 
even after editing your post I cant quite wrap my head around what and how you did things.
For instance do you have pictures of your "mess"


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 14, 2022)

smcg924 said:


> Agreed!! I should have moved my last sentence up to the beginning


Would not help, no line breaks and very few punctuations and commas.
Just a bunch of words.


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## smcg924 (Aug 14, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> *Edited for readability.
> I was unable to comment on it the way it was.*
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information
Luckily i have done everything outside since learning about the danger of the fumes. I planned on building a fume hood, but couldn’t decide on what to use because I want one big enough to use for other purposes.
Sorry no pictures of the mess but here’s one of my respirator, been using this 3M 6700. 
As I said originally kind of hard up for money so I made my own flap out of a rubber glove for the exhaust
When I did a pressure check it seemed adequately sealed although not 100% airtight so when I did get a little burning in the nose using the chemicals thought it was due to the homemade flap but now I know so thanks again


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 14, 2022)

smcg924 said:


> Thanks for the information
> Luckily i have done everything outside since learning about the danger of the fumes. I planned on building a fume hood, but couldn’t decide on what to use because I want one big enough to use for other purposes.
> Sorry no pictures of the mess but here’s one of my respirator, been using this 3M 6700.
> As I said originally kind of hard up for money so I made my own flap out of a rubber glove for the exhaust
> When I did a pressure check it seemed adequately sealed although not 100% airtight so when I did get a little burning in the nose using the chemicals thought it was due to the homemade flap but now I know so thanks again


The only thing to use for HCl and Nitric is either proper fumehood or forced air ventilators.
No filter will stop the NOx fumes from Nitric/AR.


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## smcg924 (Aug 14, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Would not help, no line breaks and very few punctuations and commas.
> Just a bunch of words.


As for what I did well I’m not 100% sure step by step
I’m not a methodical person first off 
Now add the fact that I was higher than giraffe pussy and probably up for 3-4 days when it hit me
If the gold was stuck in the rocks I could just dissolve the rocksCHA CHING
It Was gonna be great, I actually had all the resources on hand, as far as I knew. 
So I was off to the races took what was left of the gallon jug of HCl I had from cleaning some concrete and poured the remaining half gallon in a probably 3 gallon size plastic tub containing my rocks that have been busted open and added about the same amount of water to cover them.(no commas just the word and, and alot of it) 

Now I have so much material that I was just gonna let that shit for maybe a week or so 
In the meantime I’ve got some fine material and smaller rocks that look like gold so I remembered I had a gold testing kit and proceeded to add acid to see if there was a reaction. Which there wasn’t On the areas I thought we’re gold. But I did seem to notice a change on the other material makeup of the rocks
By the way this was a 10 carat testing bottle which I suppose are different strengths all the way up to 24 karat

Well sometime that day I was watching videos on gold processing or some thing and realized that the two acids that I had make aqua Regia So my brilliant problem-solving skills went into action and I started squeezing the bottle of nitric into the tub with the muriatic acid and my other rocks 

I’m guessing I forgot about it for a few days until I looked and could see The liquid was gold and they were flakes at the bottom of the tub. I don’t know how I haven’t precipitated anything yet but I did manage to find a way way to filter the liquid And remember putting a copper dish in with it at some point but precipitated it with “stump out” sodium metal bisulfite I believe it is But one bottle didn’t get the liquid all the way clear but did he end up with around 10 g or so of flakes. 

It’s probably gonna rack your brain figuring out how I managed to come up with anything and after seeing the process done on videos and the questions here and the problems people run into, wow!! I must just be one lucky son of a bitch
But it’s 100% the truth like it or not I don’t get embarrassed nor do I care what anyone thinks so I got no reason to lie and I like to be treated with respect so I respect this for him enough to at least try with the whole punctuation thing I don’t know how far I can go with it but I’m trying, thank you


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 14, 2022)

smcg924 said:


> Thanks for the information
> Luckily i have done everything outside since learning about the danger of the fumes. I planned on building a fume hood, but couldn’t decide on what to use because I want one big enough to use for other purposes.
> Sorry no pictures of the mess but here’s one of my respirator, been using this 3M 6700.
> As I said originally kind of hard up for money so I made my own flap out of a rubber glove for the exhaust
> When I did a pressure check it seemed adequately sealed although not 100% airtight so when I did get a little burning in the nose using the chemicals thought it was due to the homemade flap but now I know so thanks again


Have you had a proper thorough medical check up after your incident?
There may be hidden damage to your lungs, so they should be checked thoroughly.


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## Yggdrasil (Aug 14, 2022)

smcg924 said:


> As for what I did well I’m not 100% sure step by step
> I’m not a methodical person first off
> Now add the fact that I was higher than giraffe pussy and probably up for 3-4 days when it hit me
> If the gold was stuck in the rocks I could just dissolve the rocksCHA CHING
> ...


Acids and rocks do not go well together.
First and foremost because some minerals are extremely toxic and can contain everything from Arsenic to Mercury. 
If you have an happening with that as with the Nitric it may well be the last one you do.
Secondly, very few rocks will dissolve in “normal” acids.

We recommend all new people coming here to read C.M. Hoke’s book on refining precious metal scraps. It is easy reading in a difficult topic.
Next search this forum for what you plan to do, ideally before you make mistakes and messes up things.
The easiest mistakes to fix, is the ones you never do


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## Ag and Au (Nov 14, 2022)

After a slow and cumbersome start, I finally have some good news to share with this forum. I double refined my gold (from my _AP mess_) using the advice provided by you guys and have ended up with 5.3 grams of powdered gold.

Both refining processes went exceptionally well. Clear (not cloudy) Chloroauric Acid, followed by filtration, followed by denoxing with sulfamic acid (warmed), followed by filtration again and ending with perfect gold drops using SMB.

Ending on a high note, I am temporarily retiring until the spring of 2023. As you can see from the pictures, my lab is outside (in New England) and the cold weather will hinder me and my refining process.

Besides, I did not find any mention in Hoke’s Book that “pine needles” falling into my beakers produce more gold 

Thank you.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 14, 2022)

Ag and Au said:


> After a slow and cumbersome start, I finally have some good news to share with this forum. I double refined my gold (from my _AP mess_) using the advice provided by you guys and have ended up with 5.3 grams of powdered gold.
> 
> Both refining processes went exceptionally well. Clear (not cloudy) Chloroauric Acid, followed by filtration, followed by denoxing with sulfamic acid (warmed), followed by filtration again and ending with perfect gold drops using SMB.
> 
> ...


Nice. But it is quite dark, more washing or a re refine will be needed to get fine Gold, unless your colors are quite off.
But still a nice result to show


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## Ag and Au (Nov 14, 2022)

Thank you so very much...I think it is the flourescent light above the beaker - the gold is really a lighter brown than the picture shows.


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## Martijn (Nov 15, 2022)

Ag and Au, nice result.  

@smcg924 do you actually have a question or was this post ment as a warning to others after your experience? 


smcg924 said:


> When I did a pressure check it seemed adequately sealed although not 100% airtight so when I did get a little burning in the nose using the chemicals thought it was due to the homemade flap but now I know so thanks again


Know what? Not to use a mask, ever?



smcg924 said:


> As I said originally kind of hard up for money


Then why waste chemicals on rocks? Do you even have the money needed to clean it up and dispose of the chemical waste responsibly? Once you've figured out what is in the mess.



smcg924 said:


> Sorry no pictures of the mess but here’s one of my respirator, been using this 3M 6700.


Great for dusty jobs. But for chemistry: Nice death trap. Seriously. 



smcg924 said:


> Now add the fact that I was higher than giraffe pussy


Was that before or after the exposure?



Ag and Au said:


> my lab is outside (in New England)


Are you saying you do not have a lab? Never heard of outdoor labs with open roof to let rain in. Who else has acces to this 'lab'? Any curious kids around who like colored drinks?



smcg924 said:


> The liquid was gold and they were flakes at the bottom of the tub.


After AR in a tub full of rocks, you will not see (m)any flakes of gold. I'm guessing mica sheet flakes. Shiny, but not worth very much. 
Iron Chloride is just as gold colored as Auric Chloride. 

And maybe have mom checked out as well? 

Did anyone advice you to stop everything you're doing yet? Here is it: 

Stop. Go study. Ask before doing anything. Everything you're doing is wrong and dangerous. 
Stay alive. Think first, then act. 

Martijn.


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## Ag and Au (Nov 15, 2022)

Thank you Martijn - that means alot coming from you. I am not sure what those other comments mean....


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## Martijn (Nov 15, 2022)

Ag and Au said:


> Thank you Martijn - that means alot coming from you. I am not sure what those other comments mean....


I love seeing succes and gold in any form. Great job. Like yggdrasil said: more washing needed.
Those comments were not meant for you, but for someone who hijacked your thread. 
And I was in an assertive mood.


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## Shark (Nov 15, 2022)

Nice pile of gold. Get it cleaned up and melted. Looking forward to seeing a nice button of shiny gold.


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## Ag and Au (Nov 15, 2022)

Thank you Shark for your valued insight; I took a long ride on the emotional roller coaster getting to this point. I surely lost some gold and spent tons of time. But I now have plenty of _basic _knowledge to build on.


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## FrugalRefiner (Nov 15, 2022)

The knowledge is more valuable than the gold.

Dave


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## stoneware (Nov 15, 2022)

Ag and Au said:


> I would like to start this thread off with two simple words: Thank you.
> 
> You guys offer clear and erudite advice ranging from the "gold recovery/refining mindset" to the "abstract" to the "practical" to the "safety" and everywhere in between. It was so important to me (as a beginner) to settle in, read, slow down, learn, think and manage my expectations. This is an exciting hobby and you guys enhance this pleasure.
> 
> ...


Edit to remove content already answered from another member.


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## Shark (Nov 16, 2022)

Ag and Au said:


> Thank you Shark for your valued insight; I took a long ride on the emotional roller coaster getting to this point. I surely lost some gold and spent tons of time. But I now have plenty of _basic _knowledge to build on.


Knowledge is key when refining. Making the progress builds confidence in that knowledge and puts us on the road to learning even more. 

I well remember my first button, and it needed more work. I refined it again and was amazed at how much better it got.


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## Ag and Au (Nov 16, 2022)

Shark, Dave, et al: Four of the most important aspects in this field are:
*1) Safety
2) Patience
3) Be Teachable
4) Properly separate your materials prior to refining (or else you end up with a metallic, soupy mess as I did at the top of this thread ).*


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