# gold jewelry



## Anonymous (Mar 7, 2008)

I have various peices of broken and or dented jewelry of various carrots.
I am interested in consolodationg it into a higher carat and trying to make ingots out of it.
My questions:
#1.) What process should I use to reduce the gold to a common denominator and then reconstitute it as an ingot or bar etc.

#2.)Is this a good idea?


Thank you for all your help...


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## Anonymous (Mar 7, 2008)

I meant Karats.

I was talking on the phone when I typed that...


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## Harold_V (Mar 7, 2008)

You don't really have any options. If you desire to recover the gold, it should be refined. There are no processes I'm aware of that will increase the gold content aside from adding pure gold----which would NOT be a good idea. I might also suggest to you that alloyed ingots are generally not a ready traded commodity, nor would you have any way to assure the fineness of the ingot. Not a great idea unless you want to play with them. 

Should you decide to liquidate your values, once so melted, it's entirely possible you'd have to sell as scrap. You can do much better with pure gold, assuming you follow prescribed procedures and can find a jeweler that buys pure for manufacturing custom jewelry. You should proved no less than 9995 quality in that case. 

Gold that is repeatedly melted tends to degrade in quality. Any jeweler with experience will not melt large amounts, choosing instead to melt what their immediate needs are, reusing only the sprue, which is removed after casting. That way fresh alloy is always included. 

For the record, the gold isn't harmed by melting, but the base metals from which the alloy is created oxidize with repeated heating. There's a point at which it will yield gaseous inclusions when cast, which creates problems in finishing. 

The other thing you risk in melting your various items is including undesirable elements. White gold and yellow gold should not be mixed, nor should solder be included when gold is reused. It can lead to problems, but it can also be forgiving. 

I can give you the same advice I give everyone else. Buy Hoke's book and learn how to refine. It's a lot of fun, and very rewarding. 

Harold


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## Anonymous (Mar 7, 2008)

I've been lurking here for some time and trying to assimilate all the information here and I'm finally brave enough to ask a question. 

I've seen Hoke's book mentioned many times and I want to buy a copy. I'm not sure where to get the best deal. I understand some of the "cheap" copies aren't complete. 

Harold, where would you recommend purchasing the book and could you give me a rough estimate on the cost?

Also, is the book written for professional scientists or will the lay person with a rudimentary understanding of chemistry be able to learn from the book?

Also, on a different subject, Harold are you the one who is a big advocate of incineration? If so, are there instructions on this forum on the best way to do it and how to process the remaining ashes and metals? Could you please direct me to a thread? I've searched and searched and can't find anything. I'll be happy to start a new thread with this question if you think it's appropriate.

I love this site because there's so much information here, but there's so MUCH info that I do searches for specific things and then an hour later realize I've found other interesting subjects within my searching and I've detoured into an entirely different area. This site is most serendipitous. Thank you everyone!

TIA,

Jane


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## Harold_V (Mar 8, 2008)

GoodAsBullion said:


> I've seen Hoke's book mentioned many times and I want to buy a copy. I'm not sure where to get the best deal. I understand some of the "cheap" copies aren't complete.


I have a copy of the original book and have seen one copy of the reprint. For all practical purposes, the reprint is complete in that the information that is sorely needed for the novice to refine is all there. It's been a few years since I saw the reprint, but as I recall it may be missing the drawings or photos that are helpful in understanding the appearance of laboratory gear, but there are other places to see pictures of recommended items. Chemical supply catalogs are usually quite descriptive and will show them. I have no doubts that a reprint is worthy of being purchased, and is far better than no book at all. 

I have not seen a copy of Ammen's book, but reports here on the forum, just recently, indicate it is more advanced, and may not contain the type of information that a novice needs to get started refining. Hoke's book teaches every detail that is important. 



> Harold, where would you recommend purchasing the book and could you give me a rough estimate on the cost?


You should be able to purchase the book for under $75. They have occasionally sold for less, but don't count on it. If you have an interest in refining, time is a wastin'! You may save a few bucks, but think of the amount of metal you may pass over while waiting. The cost of the book is nothing compared to its value in teaching you the things that are essential to refining. 

Here's a link, provided by one of the readers recently. I regret I do not recall his name. 

http://www.gesswein.com/catalog/catalog.cfm?cat=12&sub=3&subsub=59&catalog=1&CFID=1471004&CFTOKEN=30985426 

You're looking for a copy of Refining Precious Metal Wastes, C.M. Hoke.

Should it not pan out, there is a second source, but at a slightly higher price. I can provide that information if required. 

On that subject, do not allow anyone to sway you against Hoke's book. From it, I learned to refine well enough to found a refining business that was successful beyond my wildest imagination. Had I not encountered the book, I have no doubts, I would not have succeeded. 

Some will say that the methods are archaic. 

Doesn't matter. 

They work, and work well. They are easy to accomplish, but, most importantly, they yield high quality gold, and warn you of the pitfalls that can beset a refiner. Best part is, they're not beyond the ability of the average guy, even one that has no chemical training or education. I am one such person. I was a miserable student, and couldn't wait to get out of high school. I never studied, which was well reflected in my grades. Still, learning to refine was simple, and made fun by having the book to follow. I'm exceedingly bullish on it, in spite of the fact that I have no connections with the author, the publisher, or any of the outlets that sell the book. I have faith in it, athe result of the resounding success I achieved, having used it. 



> Also, is the book written for professional scientists or will the lay person with a rudimentary understanding of chemistry be able to learn from the book?


As I've already stated, it is easy to read and understand, If anything, those with some chemical training may find it elementary and redundant. That's exactly what a person like me needs. You need not understand chemistry at all----she uses common terminology for chemicals that are required, and gives you step by step instructions on how to go about making tests and test solutions. You won't regret making the purchase, assuming you're sincere in your endeavor to refine precious metals. You'll learn how to process gold, platinum and palladium with acceptable methods, and enough about silver to dissolve and recover it. You'll need more information than the book contains if you intend to make a silver parting cell (easily made from a stainless pot from a steam table), but that information is easy to obtain from a book written by Butts & Coxe.  (Really, that's their names!)



> Also, on a different subject, Harold are you the one who is a big advocate of incineration?


Yes, I am, in spite of some thinking that it, in some way, complicates refining. Nothing is farther from the truth. Incineration solves almost every problem that some of these guys "enjoy", but until they have burned themselves to the ground in failure, many will not listen. If nothing else, Incineration is an excellent way to treat materials when going from one acid wash to another, usually to improve its filtering ability. Filtration can be very troublesome, as many can attest. You benefit not only by improving a solutions ability to filter, but by removing unwanted substances that can degrade the quality of the precipitated gold. 

Fact is, incineration can be helpful in eliminating substances that absorb gold in solution, or present the risk of forming explosive compounds. One of the readily identifiable benefits is the elimination of oils and grease, each of which give precipitated gold cause to float on the surface. It's a maddening and troubling experience, and so easy to avoid



> If so, are there instructions on this forum on the best way to do it and how to process the remaining ashes and metals? Could you please direct me to a thread? I've searched and searched and can't find anything. I'll be happy to start a new thread with this question if you think it's appropriate.


I don't know that I can direct you to a thread. I've discussed it loosely on several occasions, but interest, at best, has been scant. If you'd like my views on incineration, I'd be happy to expound, but I hesitate to repeat what has already been said if there is little interest. Just state if you so desire, and I'll make a post in that regard, providing details in how I incinerated. It's not very involved, but it can be the source of lost values, or even hazardous, assuming you don't have the proper facility. I set fire to my garage early on, which was the reason I built a hood that was fireproof. I highly recommend one, plus one that is filtered, to recover traces that are lost not only in incineration, but evaporation and dissolution of values. 

A word of caution. Hoke, in her book, talks of using gasoline for incineration. It likely stands to reason that you DO NOT DO THAT! Not under any condition, not at any time. It isn't necessary, and it is very dangerous. Gasoline use should be restricted to operating internal combustion engines and appliances made to be operated with it---nothing more. Never use it as a solvent, nor as an accelerant. 



> I love this site because there's so much information here, but there's so MUCH info that I do searches for specific things and then an hour later realize I've found other interesting subjects within my searching and I've detoured into an entirely different area. This site is most serendipitous. Thank you everyone!


I'd like to think that I, in some small way, have contributed to part of your pleasure. I have enjoyed reliving my refining experiences through the readers. 

Buy the book! :wink: 

Harold

edit: corrected typo


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## lazersteve (Mar 8, 2008)

Welcome to the forum,

Hokes book can also be found at www.ipmi.org in the Publications section near the bottom. It's $74 I think. I live a short distance from IPMI and have visited there. The books are all new and missing none of the content. 

Harold has taught me the values of incineration and I have seen first hand the benefits gained by using incineration. My gold filled DVD demonstrated incineration of Gold Filled scrap and my upcoming DVD featuring processing Jewelers Buffing Wastes demonstrates incineration of the buffing material.

Steve


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## Anonymous (Mar 8, 2008)

Harold - Thank you for such a wonderful information-packed reply. 



Harold_V said:


> I don't know that I can direct you to a thread. I've discussed it loosely on several occasions, but interest, at best, has been scant. If you'd like my views on incineration, I'd be happy to expound, but I hesitate to repeat what has already been said if there is little interest.



Yes, please expound. LazerSteve posted that he also uses incineration in some of his processing so at least one other person is interested/using it.



Harold_V said:


> It's not very involved, but it can be the source of lost values, or even hazardous, assuming you don't have the proper facility. I set fire to my garage early on, which was the reason I built a hood that was fireproof. I highly recommend one, plus one that is filtered, to recover traces that are lost not only in incineration, but evaporation and dissolution of values.



Before I tried any kind of incineration, I'd want to learn how others did it safely. I know the exhaust fumes can be nasty - esp. from the burning boards.

I had a couple of ideas on how to incinerate - nothing involving gasoline, however. My ideas were to use a home-made charcoal foundry or potter/ceramic kilns - using either outdoors because of fumes. The kilns would have to be vented somehow, as they seal pretty tight to hold heat in. I have two large kilns that I use for glass fusing. They'd be plenty hot enough.

I'd even considered using a huge old barbeque grill and just move it out to an open area in the backyard. I only use it for that purpose as I have a new grill for food! But air filtration is a huge question that has to be answered.

Regardless, I am anxious to learn how others have done it successfully and safely. Does this need be moved this to its own thread?


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## Anonymous (Mar 8, 2008)

lazersteve said:


> Welcome to the forum



Thanks Steve. I think you're the one who directed me here. It's a treasure trove - literally.



lazersteve said:


> Hokes book can also be found at www.ipmi.org in the Publications section near the bottom. It's $74 I think. I live a short distance from IPMI and have visited there. The books are all new and missing none of the content.



Terrific, thanks. That's such a good price I would have wondered if the books were complete. And that's actually the best price I've seen on a "complete" copy.



lazersteve said:


> Harold has taught me the values of incineration and I have seen first hand the benefits gained by using incineration. My gold filled DVD demonstrated incineration of Gold Filled scrap and my upcoming DVD featuring processing Jewelers Buffing Wastes demonstrates incineration of the buffing material.



I hope we're going to start a thread about incineration so I'm anxious to learn how you incorporate it into your already amazing/successful processes. Now that I am finally able to see your videos, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to put the complete instructions together. They and you are invaluable. Thanks so much!


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## skyline27 (Mar 8, 2008)

How will you deal with emmissions???

You think burning circuit boards and other e-scrap is no worse than car exhaust? 

YOU ARE DREAMING


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## Anonymous (Mar 8, 2008)

skyline27 said:


> How will you deal with emmissions???
> 
> You think burning circuit boards and other e-scrap is no worse than car exhaust?
> 
> YOU ARE DREAMING



No need to yell. I'm not dreaming. I do not intend to kill myself or others.

Some kind of air filtration system will be used no matter the process - acid baths or incineration. That's why I want to know how others are doing it successfully and safely.


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## pilotdan (Mar 8, 2008)

I would like to know more about this as well. Do you use some type of scrubber to clean the exhaust?


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