# gold powder wash



## Kbow (Sep 9, 2008)

Steve,

Do you have a video of an acid wash and boil after dropping the gold with smb? It seems that I have seen one and cannot find info on it anymore.
I have a general idea anyway but I sure do get a lot out of seeing it done.

Thanks,
Kbow


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## lazersteve (Sep 9, 2008)

Keith,

I have one which I included a short segment of on the Gold Filled DVD.

I never posted the entire video. The version on the gold filled DVD is shortened so it would fit on the DVD with all the other videos.

I'll see if I can round it up and put it up on my site.

Steve


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## ljmolina (Mar 11, 2010)

Is the gold powder wash included in the Fingers in AP dvd? I am at that step as this is my first time doing this. Foolishly I tried to use a filter to filter out the fine gold powder dust, needless to say it went through the filter. I have lost alot of gold powder trying to do it this way.

After the Auric Chloride + SMB, is the gold powder a really fine grain? It seems in your video Steve, that you obviously had bigger pieces sticking to your spoon... mine came out as a fine dark brown powder.

thanks


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## Irons (Mar 11, 2010)

ljmolina said:


> Is the gold powder wash included in the Fingers in AP dvd? I am at that step as this is my first time doing this. Foolishly I tried to use a filter to filter out the fine gold powder dust, needless to say it went through the filter. I have lost alot of gold powder trying to do it this way.
> 
> After the Auric Chloride + SMB, is the gold powder a really fine grain? It seems in your video Steve, that you obviously had bigger pieces sticking to your spoon... mine came out as a fine dark brown powder.
> 
> thanks



Time to get some good filter paper. Like my sig says: The stingy man pays the most. I recommend Whatman 934 AH or similar for those very fine precipitates. Whatman 4 or 5 series work as well but the glass fiber filters filter down to 1.5 microns and retain to .3 microns. The biggest issue, as 4metals said is the requirement to use vacuum and a Buchner funnel, since the glass filters can't be folded. The glass fiber filters are much faster than the cellulose filters for a given porosity and PGMs don't stick well to glass since there is no Hydrogen to attract them. You can soak them in AR for Months and they are good up to 500Deg C.


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## PreciousMexpert (Mar 11, 2010)

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1150/75680535.jpg

Here is a vacuum and a Buchner funnel.
I have heard about that Buchner funnel but I never saw it with a vacuum
I suppose you have a round filter that fits the funnel
My question is that when you pour your solution ,wont the filter lift up and the solution goes under the filter.
Maybe once you buy one it becomes more clear
Also I am wondering if Chris and Harold used one of these things
Thanks


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## Irons (Mar 11, 2010)

PreciousMexpert said:


> http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1150/75680535.jpg
> 
> Here is a vacuum and a Buchner funnel.
> I have heard about that Buchner funnel but I never saw it with a vacuum
> ...



The vacuum holds the filter down, so you wet the filter, apply vacuum then pour your solution. You have to use a filter flask, an Erlenmeyer with a side arm hose connection for the vacuum. The Buchner goes into a one-hole stopper that fits the flask, just like the image shows.


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## PreciousMexpert (Mar 11, 2010)

Hi Irons
Thanks for your help
The vacuum pump in the picture is a hand cotroled one
I guess there must be ones that work with motors
Is it a good idea to get one of those or just use one like that in the picture
Thanks


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## Irons (Mar 11, 2010)

PreciousMexpert said:


> Hi Irons
> Thanks for your help
> The vacuum pump in the picture is a hand cotroled one
> I guess there must be ones that work with motors
> ...



I've never used one of those. In a pinch, you could use the vacuum from your car engine. Be creative, you don't need much. :mrgreen:


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## ljmolina (Mar 11, 2010)

Thanks for your suggestions... I will look at buying one. Last night I let the gold powder sit in a pyrex plate all night so it would settle down, so this morning I heated the solution on a hot plate and let the solution evaporate. This method seemed to work out for now.

I have gathered for my first time doing this...
1.16grams from ~20-30 ISA cards.


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## Harold_V (Mar 12, 2010)

PreciousMexpert said:


> Also I am wondering if Chris and Harold used one of these things
> Thanks


edit:
Ok, I just checked the posted link. I think my answer isn't what you were looking for, but I'll leave my comments, below, because I addressed a method of achieving a vacuum that doesn't require you to stand by and pump until your arm falls off. As you will come to understand, I thought you wanted to know if Chris and I used Buchners. No way in hell could I get interested in that hand pump. end of edit.  

Yes, I used various sizes of Buchners, but not for filtering my gold chloride solutions. I used 32CM Whatman #2 papers and lab funnels for that function. If you (properly) prepare your metals before dissolving, they will filter perfectly well that way. 

I found a Buchner very handy when recovering platinum or palladium, plus I used one for drying cement silver, and washing silver crystals recovered from the silver cell. 

If your sewer bill isn't based on water consumption, you can use an eductor (I think that's what it's called) to create a vacuum from your water supply. I used one all the years I refined. They're VERY efficient at creating a vacuum. 

You guys with all the knowledge, correct me on the name of the "eductor" if I'm wrong. It would help others to have the information correct. 

Harold


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## Palladium (Mar 12, 2010)

http://www.crscientific.com/aspirator-pumps.html


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## shadybear (Mar 12, 2010)

Breast pump goodwill


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## PreciousMexpert (Mar 12, 2010)

Hi Irons
Would it be possible to attach an ordinary houshold vacuum clear to the flask
I guess it should not be very powerful

Hi Harold
I have read plenty of your comments and I was wondering what you mean by this statement


> If you (properly) prepare your metals before dissolving, they will filter perfectly well that way.


I guess you mean remove all base metals and perecipitate well.

Hi Palladium
I guess this would be an educator but I dont see that name over there.
How that thing works does not seem clear but I guess when you buy it the instructions will be there


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 12, 2010)

It works because the exiting end of the fluid in larger than the entrance and thus is causes a vacume on the side port. I used something under the same desighn for pool work on removing the sand from a filter.


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## Irons (Mar 12, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> It works because the exiting end of the fluid in larger than the entrance and thus is causes a vacume on the side port. I used something under the same desighn for pool work on removing the sand from a filter.



A suction dredge works on the same principle.

Eductor is a correct term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirator



An aspirator, also called an eductor-jet pump or filter pump, is a device that produces vacuum by means of the Venturi effect. In an aspirator, fluid (liquid or gaseous) flows through a tube which then narrows. When the tube narrows, the fluid's speed increases, and because of the Venturi effect, its pressure decreases. Vacuum is taken from this point.
[edit] Operation

The cheap and simple water aspirator is the most common type of aspirator. It is used in chemistry and biology laboratories and consists of a tee fitting which is attached to a faucet and has a hose barb at one side. The flow of water passes through the straight portion of the tee, which has a restriction at the intersection, where the hose barb is attached. The vacuum hose should be connected to this barb.

If a liquid is used as the working fluid, the strength of the vacuum produced is limited by the vapor pressure of the liquid (for water, 3.2 kPa (32 mbar) at 25 degrees Celsius.) If a gas is used, however, this restriction does not exist. The industrial steam ejector (also called the steam jet ejector, steam aspirator, or steam jet aspirator) uses steam as a working fluid.

In order to avoid using too much steam, a single steam ejector stage is generally not used to generate vacuum below approximately 10 kPa (75 mmHg).[1] To generate higher vacuum, multiple stages are used; in a two-stage steam ejector, for example, the second stage provides vacuum for the waste steam output by the first stage. Condensers may be used between stages to reduce the load on the later stages. Steam ejectors with two, three, four, five and six stages may be used to produce vacuums down to 2.5 kPa, 300 Pa, 40 Pa, 4 Pa, and 0.4 Pa, respectively.[1]

The air ejector or venturi pump is similar to the steam ejector but uses high-pressure air as the working fluid. Multistage air ejectors can be used, but since air cannot easily be condensed at room temperature, an air ejector is usually limited to two or three stages.

-snip-



One important note: Glass frit buchners are rated for one atmosphere pressure differential. Even the porcelain ones have their limit.
I'm building a suction device using a 5 gallon (20 liter) plastic bucket with another bucket inverted inside the first one. Filling it with water and pulling up on the inner bucket creates suction that can be tapped off with a 3/8 id hose. A pulley with a counterweight attached to the top of the inner bucket maintains a constant suction without need of constant attention. The amount of suction can be regulated with the counterweight. The buchner requires little volume but a constant suction, so 5 gallons is more than enough volume.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 12, 2010)

Correct me if I'm wrong. But you will not have the full 5 gal of volume because as the vacume is relased from the inside bucket by the transfer of fluid into it the volume of water from the outside bucket is transfering to the inside bucket or being lost by over flow from the outside bucket. Maybe a 5 gal bucket inside of a 20 gal barrel would make this work.

Perhaps I'm wrong on this and will have to do a test. I'm sure you have done this and I will be wrong.


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## Oz (Mar 12, 2010)

Irons said:


> One important note: Glass frit buchners are rated for one atmosphere pressure differential. Even the porcelain ones have their limit.
> I'm building a suction device using a 5 gallon (20 liter) plastic bucket with another bucket inverted inside the first one. Filling it with water and pulling up on the inner bucket creates suction that can be tapped off with a 3/8 id hose. A pulley with a counterweight attached to the top of the inner bucket maintains a constant suction without need of constant attention. The amount of suction can be regulated with the counterweight. The buchner requires little volume but a constant suction, so 5 gallons is more than enough volume.



That is a very fine idea Irons! It fits all the criteria of K.I.S.S. and consumes no electric.

Thank you


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## Irons (Mar 12, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong. But you will not have the full 5 gal of volume because as the vacume is relased from the inside bucket by the transfer of fluid into it the volume of water from the outside bucket is transfering to the inside bucket or being lost by over flow from the outside bucket. Maybe a 5 gal bucket inside of a 20 gal barrel would make this work.
> 
> Perhaps I'm wrong on this and will have to do a test. I'm sure you have done this and I will be wrong.



Do you think I would give away all my secrets? You're right, but the biggest vacuum flask I have is 4 liters, so, it's really not an issue.

So, add more water, already. :mrgreen: I'd love to seethe look on your face when the extra water overflows.

You're not supposed to yank it so hard it breaks suction. The water level won't change much at all. The air coming from the vacuum flask displaces the water.


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## Irons (Mar 12, 2010)

Oz said:


> Irons said:
> 
> 
> > One important note: Glass frit buchners are rated for one atmosphere pressure differential. Even the porcelain ones have their limit.
> ...


Thank You. It's cheap and suitable containers can be found just about anywhere on the Planet.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 12, 2010)

The higher the water column inside the inner bucket that is trying to be emptied the more vacume that you can create.

Great thought there Irons. 8)


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## Irons (Mar 12, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> The higher the water column inside the inner bucket that is trying to be emptied the more vacume that you can create.
> 
> Great thought there Irons. 8)



If you want to get fancy, connect another hose with a check valve hooked to an aspirator, so that when the inner bucket rises to a given point, it trips a switch that turns on a pump and sucks the air out of the inner bucket. It's like the trip switch on a sump pump. The aspirator can work in a closed loop, using the same water over and over, or buy an aspirator pump like the ones used in hospitals.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 12, 2010)

That is great Iron's, you just laid out my next project. Along the same lines but in another tangent. Thanks for that.


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## goldnugget77 (Mar 12, 2010)

On this page there is some explanation about this subject.
http://orgchem.colorado.edu/hndbksupport/filt/filtration.html
I will be reading more on this subject because I cant understand anything
What would be the difference between hooking up an home vacuum cleaner the the flask instead of using a educator


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## Irons (Mar 12, 2010)

goldnugget77 said:


> On this page there is some explanation about this subject.
> http://orgchem.colorado.edu/hndbksupport/filt/filtration.html
> I will be reading more on this subject because I cant understand anything
> What would be the difference between hooking up an home vacuum cleaner the the flask instead of using a educator



Your wife won't throw you out of the house. :mrgreen: Acid fumes are hard on vacuum cleaners.

great link.


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## qst42know (Mar 12, 2010)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/posting.php?mode=quote&f=53&p=60161

Irons. 

I think I would rather sacrifice the vacuum cleaner than my automobile.  

Besides if either broke I'm the one that would have to fix it. :mrgreen: 

Chris


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## goldnugget77 (Mar 12, 2010)

Hi Folks
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5146/42157688.jpg
Maybe someone can tell me what goes where
A
B
C
D
where is D connected to
where is the sink connected to
Thanks


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## Irons (Mar 12, 2010)

goldnugget77 said:


> Hi Folks
> http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5146/42157688.jpg
> Maybe someone can tell me what goes where
> A
> ...


A goes to the sink drain, B connects with D and C is the water inlet from the faucet.


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## goldnugget77 (Mar 12, 2010)

Hi Irons
Thanks
You are a Champion


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## goldnugget77 (Mar 12, 2010)

I was wondering whether it would be possible to use a houshold vacuum cleaner with this setup
I said maybe in the place where the letter c is 
I could attach a household vaccum to suck up the air
I guess than the machine will be broken from the acid


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## Irons (Mar 12, 2010)

goldnugget77 said:


> I was wondering whether it would be possible to use a houshold vacuum cleaner with this setup
> I said maybe in the place where the letter c is
> I could attach a household vaccum to suck up the air
> I guess than the machine will be broken from the acid



Overkill. You don't need that volume.


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## qst42know (Mar 12, 2010)

You wouldn't need a water aspirator for a vacuum motor to work for a time.

All common household vacuum motors that I am aware of have aluminum impellers and will be affected by acid fumes eventually. 

What I don't know is how quickly a zinc die cast Humboldt aspirator is affected? Anyone here have any opinion on the life expectancy of a common zinc aspirator? Do they last or are they considered a consumable?


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## Irons (Mar 12, 2010)

qst42know said:


> You wouldn't need a water aspirator for a vacuum motor to work for a time.
> 
> All common household vacuum motors that I am aware of have aluminum impellers and will be affected by acid fumes eventually.
> 
> What I don't know is how quickly a zinc die cast Humboldt aspirator is affected? Anyone here have any opinion on the life expectancy of a common zinc aspirator? Do they last or are they considered a consumable?



The water flow dilutes the acid fumes. I have one made of plastic. It's over 40 Years old and still works well.


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## Oz (Mar 13, 2010)

The heck with all this vacuum cleaner and aspirator talk that requires wasted water and/or electric pumps. Irons has shown all how to make a very versatile vacuum source from scrap. I fail to see why people are trying to work around that simple concept with other makeshift assemblies. If you have huge volumes of fluid to filter and own a refinery, by all means buy profesional equipment if you have the budget. 

I myself will take a scrap 55 gallon oil drum as my base and use an old 40 gallon well pressure tank that was discarded (bladder failed) with the bottom cut off as my inverted vessel. This will give me at least a 35 gallon displacement and the tank has 2 threaded ports on the top from the factory, one I can use for vacuum and the other as the release to allow the tank to sink again. Just for those that are conversion challenged that is 132.5 liters of displacement, or said another way 132.5 liters you will filter before your vacuum source is depleted. If you are filtering larger volumes in one shot I would be amazed. 

I apologize in advance if this seems critical, but seeing the questions and Irons tolerance in answering, there must be some that do not see the potential of what Irons originally suggested.


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## Harold_V (Mar 13, 2010)

PreciousMexpert said:


> Hi Harold
> I have read plenty of your comments and I was wondering what you mean by this statement
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, removing base metals is part of the procedure, but what really matters is giving the resulting material an extra incineration after the removal of the base metals, then a wash with HCl before digesting the values. That, alone, does more good for filtration than any other single thing you can do. 

Do keep in mind, it isn't always necessary, but if you're working with wastes that contain traces of tin, it is the only thing that will salvage what would, otherwise, be a horrible job of filtering. Even a Buchner won't help when you have jelled tin. 

I used that procedure when processing floor sweeps and polishing wastes. They had a tendency to be troublesome in filtering, even without tin in the equation. Worked perfectly well in that case, too. 

Harold


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## Oz (Mar 13, 2010)

Most all of my bad days in refining can be attributed to unexpected tin found in process.


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## Harold_V (Mar 13, 2010)

Oz said:


> The heck with all this vacuum cleaner and aspirator talk that requires wasted water and/or electric pumps. Irons has shown all how to make a very versatile vacuum source from scrap. I fail to see why people are trying to work around that simple concept with other makeshift assemblies. If you have huge volumes of fluid to filter and own a refinery, by all means buy profesional equipment if you have the budget.


Well, my experiences say that his concept, while sound, isn't going to serve the needs that you may have. For instance, if you use a Buchner for washing silver crystals, a huge amount of air is transferred. There will be times when you must create a vacuum under leaking conditions, in which case displacing a few gallons of water simply won't provide the needed vacuum. 

Also---take note---using a vacuum pump when you are dealing with acid fumes can be destructive, just as it would be destructive for an engine or vacuum cleaner. There are vacuum pumps that tolerate acid fumes. That should be the first choice if an inductor isn't in your future. Otherwise it's just a matter of time until you must replace that which you have chosen to use. 

Harold


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## Oz (Mar 13, 2010)

Harold_V said:


> For instance, if you use a Buchner for washing silver crystals, a huge amount of air is transferred



Personally I see filtering and washing as 2 very distinct and different procedures. I have reasonably large quantities of liquids to filter but little to wash.

I must admit that perhaps I am moderately prejudiced by what I process as I have a very expensive Millipore filtration set-up that I got on the cheap and has set unused for lack of a recirculating water pump and aspirator. I use settling and siphoning for much of my fine particulates that can take days to finally settle, in this application it would do wonders. 

As you know I run a fair quantity of silver. I currently wash my crystal in 2 changes of boiling water that also must be filtered/drained. It is only a guess on my part (and you may be able to shed light on this) but I would think that 35 liters of warm water in a few minutes would wash several kilos of silver crystal equally well in a fraction of the time.

In Irons system it is easy to adjust PH if you are not using acid friendly containers by using NaOH.


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## Irons (Mar 13, 2010)

Oz said:


> Harold_V said:
> 
> 
> > For instance, if you use a Buchner for washing silver crystals, a huge amount of air is transferred
> ...



In my case, I also use it as a scrubber with Sodium Carbonate. The vacuum offsets the differential pressure of the frit, preventing back pressure in the reactor, this way, I get double duty out of the apparatus.

So much for acid fumes.


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## golddie (Mar 13, 2010)

> I'm building a suction device using a 5 gallon (20 liter) plastic bucket with another bucket inverted inside the first one. Filling it with water and pulling up on the inner bucket creates suction that can be tapped off with a 3/8 id hose. A pulley with a counterweight attached to the top of the inner bucket maintains a constant suction without need of constant attention. The amount of suction can be regulated with the counterweight. The buchner requires little volume but a constant suction, so 5 gallons is more than enough volume.


This is something I am curious to see 
Thanks


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## golddie (Mar 13, 2010)

> I myself will take a scrap 55 gallon oil drum as my base and use an old 40 gallon well pressure tank that was discarded (bladder failed) with the bottom cut off as my inverted vessel. This will give me at least a 35 gallon displacement and the tank has 2 threaded ports on the top from the factory, one I can use for vacuum and the other as the release to allow the tank to sink again. Just for those that are conversion challenged that is 132.5 liters of displacement, or said another way 132.5 liters you will filter before your vacuum source is depleted. If you are filtering larger volumes in one shot I would be amazed.



Irons and Oz
I am trying to imagine this in my head and its not working.
Also I would like to make a Millipore filtration
Thanks


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 13, 2010)

golddie said:


> > I myself will take a scrap 55 gallon oil drum as my base and use an old 40 gallon well pressure tank that was discarded (bladder failed) with the bottom cut off as my inverted vessel. This will give me at least a 35 gallon displacement and the tank has 2 threaded ports on the top from the factory, one I can use for vacuum and the other as the release to allow the tank to sink again. Just for those that are conversion challenged that is 132.5 liters of displacement, or said another way 132.5 liters you will filter before your vacuum source is depleted. If you are filtering larger volumes in one shot I would be amazed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Golddie, your inside bucket is turned upside down like you are emptying it in the outer bucket. It needs to have water inside the inner bucket so when it is raised to be emptied it creates a vacume inside the bottom of the bucket because the water can't escape. A weight it attached so that it keeps upward pressure on the inside bucket, A hole has been pre tapped and a hose attached to the bottom of the inside bucket, When the water inside the inside bucket tries to leave it creates a vacume and pulls air thru the hose into the bottom of the inside bucket.


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## Irons (Mar 13, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> golddie said:
> 
> 
> > > I myself will take a scrap 55 gallon oil drum as my base and use an old 40 gallon well pressure tank that was discarded (bladder failed) with the bottom cut off as my inverted vessel. This will give me at least a 35 gallon displacement and the tank has 2 threaded ports on the top from the factory, one I can use for vacuum and the other as the release to allow the tank to sink again. Just for those that are conversion challenged that is 132.5 liters of displacement, or said another way 132.5 liters you will filter before your vacuum source is depleted. If you are filtering larger volumes in one shot I would be amazed.
> ...



One correction. The vacuum pulls air, not fluids. The fluids remain in the filter flask, unless it overflows.


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## Oz (Mar 13, 2010)

Goldie,

This is what I mean by a millipore filtration set-up http://www.millipore.com/catalogue/item/XX1009020


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 13, 2010)

Irons said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > golddie said:
> ...




I fixed it. I guess I had a brain fart.


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## Irons (Mar 13, 2010)

Oz said:


> Goldie,
> 
> This is what I mean by a millipore filtration set-up http://www.millipore.com/catalogue/item/XX1009020



Only $734., what a deal, and that's without the flask or glass filters. :mrgreen: 

I use the one piece units with a t/s ground joint. Not as convenient but a little less expensive. Still not cheap.

A 350ml buchner with a coarse glass frit and a 24/40 joint runs about $160.

Price list:
http://www.chemglass.com/product_view.asp?pnr=CG-1406-E


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## Oz (Mar 13, 2010)

The advantage of the set-up you are using is that it will not leak if your vacuum fails like the Millipore will at the filter paper joint. The disadvantage is the difficulty in removing your filtered solids and sealing your filter paper edges if you are not using the frit as your filter. Millipore units are expensive but I got lucky and found some broken units that still had some parts intact. With careful part number checking I was able to put mine together for about $70 including an extra fritted support but not counting the filtering flasks.


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## Irons (Mar 13, 2010)

Oz said:


> The advantage of the set-up you are using is that it will not leak if your vacuum fails like the Millipore will at the filter paper joint. The disadvantage is the difficulty in removing your filtered solids and sealing your filter paper edges if you are not using the frit as your filter. Millipore units are expensive but I got lucky and found some broken units that still had some parts intact. With careful part number checking I was able to put mine together for about $70 including an extra fritted support but not counting the filtering flasks.



I have a lot of extra parts :mrgreen: I have enough to make a half dozen filtration sets. 
For example, a 350 ml glass buchner takes an 80mm filter paper but they are hard to find, so i use a 90mm trimmed to 82-83mm, that gives a bit of radius, which helps the seal and makes it easier to grasp the paper after it's done.


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## golddie (Mar 13, 2010)

Hi Folks
Thanks very much for your help
My understanding of this device is getting better 
But I am still not 100% clear on this idea and I tried google images and nothing on this 
When someone has a picture of one maybe you can post it here
Thanks again


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## Irons (Mar 13, 2010)

golddie said:


> Hi Folks
> Thanks very much for your help
> My understanding of this device is getting better
> But I am still not 100% clear on this idea and I tried google images and nothing on this
> ...


http://www.chemglass.com/product_view.asp?pnr=CG-1406-E

A link I posted earlier


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## Anonymous (Mar 13, 2010)

If your glassware is rated for 1 atmosphere I do not think you could exceed that rating. Since if you pump out everything, you will only be removing 1 atmosphere.

Jim


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## nickvc (Mar 14, 2010)

While i was refining for a living i used plastic 2 piece filter beds taped round the joins with electrical tape to ensure a good vacuum with no real problems, cheaper than ceramic or glass and harder to break,to avoid acid reaching the pump i set up a trap in tandem using a small sealed flask with a bung in the neck with 2 tubes through the bung,the flask had a caustic soda solution which caught any liquid and most fumes and my pumps lasted years which at around $650 each was a blessing.


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## Irons (Mar 14, 2010)

nickvc said:


> While i was refining for a living i used plastic 2 piece filter beds taped round the joins with electrical tape to ensure a good vacuum with no real problems, cheaper than ceramic or glass and harder to break,to avoid acid reaching the pump i set up a trap in tandem using a small sealed flask with a bung in the neck with 2 tubes through the bung,the flask had a caustic soda solution which caught any liquid and most fumes and my pumps lasted years which at around $650 each was a blessing.



A trap and scrubber is always a good idea. I was wondering how long it would be before it became a topic of discussion. I was trying to keep it simple to not confuse any more than I had already.


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## nickvc (Mar 14, 2010)

Irons said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> > While i was refining for a living i used plastic 2 piece filter beds taped round the joins with electrical tape to ensure a good vacuum with no real problems, cheaper than ceramic or glass and harder to break,to avoid acid reaching the pump i set up a trap in tandem using a small sealed flask with a bung in the neck with 2 tubes through the bung,the flask had a caustic soda solution which caught any liquid and most fumes and my pumps lasted years which at around $650 each was a blessing.
> ...


I only mentioned it as a way to save the members money same as the plastic filter beds ,if we can cut out expensive equipment it makes the whole job more attractive.As an aside i still have 2 huge ceramic filter beds i used for big jobs and long winded filtering of sweeps....just couldnt throw them away :lol:


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## Refiner232121 (Mar 14, 2010)

Hi People
This is getting intresting 
If we can have some pictures or diagrams on suction device that would be fantastic


> I'm building a suction device using a 5 gallon (20 liter) plastic bucket with another bucket inverted inside the first one. Filling it with water and pulling up on the inner bucket creates suction that can be tapped off with a 3/8 id hose. A pulley with a counterweight attached to the top of the inner bucket maintains a constant suction without need of constant attention. The amount of suction can be regulated with the counterweight. The buchner requires little volume but a constant suction, so 5 gallons is more than enough volume.


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## Higashi (Aug 27, 2010)

shadybear said:


> Breast pump goodwill



a breast pump will arouse huge amount of suspicion on my girlfriend, it'll get me interrogated for sure.


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## lycidas (Oct 30, 2010)

Whats a common item that has a vacuum pump and most likely you can get it for free?

A refrigerator or freezer has one. They use it to move around the coolant. It can move air just as easily, nothing in a rulebook says it can't be used in this way.

Add in a pressure cooker or something as the vessel. And now your evaporating with vacuum. 

Think outside the box; or 55-gal drum for that matter. :mrgreen:


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## Barren Realms 007 (Oct 31, 2010)

lycidas said:


> Whats a common item that has a vacuum pump and most likely you can get it for free?
> 
> A refrigerator or freezer has one. They use it to move around the coolant. It can move air just as easily, nothing in a rulebook says it can't be used in this way.
> 
> ...



It will possibly colapse a drum. But a heavy tank like a water heater tank will work.


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## Harold_V (Oct 31, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> It will possibly colapse a drum.


My money is on your comment. 

When I moved from Utah to Washington, elevation went from roughly 4,200 feet to about 1,200 feet at our present location. Included in the move were a pair of those nice blue 55 gallon drums, empty. The change in altitude cause them to pull in several inches, yielding a pair of rather unusual shaped drums, to say the least. I can only imagine what would become of a steel drum that was evacuated. Could prove to be very interesting! :lol: 

Harold


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## qst42know (Oct 31, 2010)

A shop-vac type vacuum will collapse a blue poly drum where a steel one holds up, I don't recall the water lift of the vacuum. There may be a limit to what a given steel drum will tolerate before collapsing and they do come in different grades.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Oct 31, 2010)

qst42know said:


> A shop-vac type vacuum will collapse a blue poly drum where a steel one holds up, I don't recall the water lift of the vacuum. There may be a limit to what a given steel drum will tolerate before collapsing and they do come in different grades.



The water lift capacity of the wet dry vacume will change with the size of pipe you use to vacume with. The smaller the diamater of the tube the greater the lifting height. A 2" hose is about 2-3' a 1" hose is about 7-10 ft if the hose is completely full.


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## g_axelsson (Nov 13, 2010)

The amount of water lift is independent of the diameter of the tube. It is only a factor of the pressure differential that the shop-vac can attain. An absolute vacuum cal lift close to 10m water as it actually is the air pressure from the outside that lifts the water.
For the poor drum it means that it doesn't matter if you attach a thin or wide hose to the vacuum, it will be crushed with the same force in either case.

With all that said, there can be a practical difference when you try to vacuum up water from a floor as it will be mixed with air. The more air the less density and the more "lift". It's easier to have the air and water mixed in a narrower hose.

/Göran


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