# Melting Gold Precipitants



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 1, 2012)

Iv'e been processing a high grade gold bearing rock but end up with alot of silica and don't want to spend alot of time seperating silica from the gold dust. Whats a good flux for 75/25 silica gold mix?


----------



## goldenchild (Nov 1, 2012)

25% gold ore? Any pictures?


----------



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 1, 2012)

goldenchild said:


> 25% gold ore? Any pictures?


A magician never reveals his secret stash. But it turns my glass a reddish pinkish color 8) I was a miner for a while and kind of know what gold is in, we actually showed the school of mines students the mining process for there college.


----------



## butcher (Nov 1, 2012)

If this is the same ore you used aqua regia on the red color could just be Iron.

Is this free gold concentrated from the crushed ore and seperated from the bulk of the ore?

Many things you have stated are just not adding up, either you are leaving out important details, or we are just missunderstanding what you are talking about.


----------



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 1, 2012)

butcher said:


> If this is the same ore you used aqua regia on the red color could just be Iron.
> 
> Is this free gold concentrated from the crushed ore and seperated from the bulk of the ore?
> 
> Many things you have stated are just not adding up, either you are leaving out important details, or we are just missunderstanding what you are talking about.



That ore I used in Aqua Regia was from a hard rock mine and that was a long time ago I just wanted to be able to process sulphides without roasting or oxidizing the hell out of them as you lose alot of gold doing that. The stuff I have now is not ore it is placer gold and is from a lets say a precipitant and is non magnetic so my guess is probally not iron making the glass reddish pinkesh. I actually have been getting 2-3 grams of gold from about 30 grams precipitant but I am burning alot up in chlorine gas unless I use a collector metal. Just wanted to know a good flux for just silica/gold mix someone should know of one right? I'm not real good with fluxes and threw away all my flux mixing literature.
If I knew everything I wouldn't be asking for some help. Where I learned how to assay I was told smelting was turning a metal oxide into a alloy and everything else was just melting metals. So perhaps I am really confused.


----------



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 1, 2012)

Also I don't have a concentrator right now and is the only reason I am doing it this way. I am just a poor boy and wet and dry pan my precipitants. When I get my concentrator I will just melt the gold in melting dish. I don't have any books either just try and run off of personal experience which is not that much. I did read a Eissler though.


----------



## butcher (Nov 1, 2012)

For placer gold I treat it much like karat gold, in quartering the gold with silver in a melt stirring well with a carbon rod, pour shot, and use nitric acid to remove silver and the base metals from the gold.

Silver from the nitrate solution is recovered by cementing on copper, this silver can then be melted with the next batch of gold.

This removes the other base metals from the placer gold; the gold is then refined in aqua regia.


I am still confused about the 75:25 question; if this is placer gold is the 25 what is the 75 parts?

Ore rock and placer gold are two different animals, is this gold and quartz? Or what? 
Although I have recovered some placer gold with quartz, it was never with that much quartz involved.

If your talking about black sands with a little bit of gold the above process would not work, I really still am confused as to what we are discussing here.

A picture of the ore or better details of what your trying to do or have done would clear up much of this confusion, maybe then we could help you come up with a better process, but if you are happy with the one your using then by all means continue to use that.


Silica will just make glass in a melt and silica, or crushed glass is usually added to the melt as flux, if your ore already had plenty of silica no need to add any to the flux, the oxides in SiO2 if too high you may have to adjust the flux recipe with a carbon like flour, or something that would reduce their oxidizing effects, especially if you are using a collector like lead oxide in your flux, where you are trying to reduce the lead to metal to collect gold.

A gold pan, and good panning skills can concentrate placer gold to almost pure placer gold, which then is no problem to in-quarter the gold with silver.

Maybe we need to help you with your panning skills first, before worrying about processing the gold in acids?


----------



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 1, 2012)

I used amalgamite as a collector and then cupeled it and had some nice results but took alot of time and isn't real cheap as your using alot of supplies to do this. The end result want some small flaked gold that tested around 16k to 18k. Next I tried a new chemical process out and got about 1/3 back of my total weight of precipitant I put in and seemed to work the best which resulted in the light tan/yellow powder.


----------



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 1, 2012)

Looks like dried gold chloride (or gold powder as some call it) with some metal flakes in it if you can see up close.


----------



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 1, 2012)

It's not gold chloride then it's just gold powder? It won't oxidize or burn up no matter what heat I throw at it so thats good I think. It's a nice dull yellow color up close with some shiny in the midst.


----------



## butcher (Nov 1, 2012)

If you have access to lots of this ore then I would look into purchasing the equipment to process it, separating the gold from quartz dust If you do not have another mining supply house close to you, check out Action Mining in Sandy Oregon.

if you only have a small bit of this ore then maybe a blue bowl to separate most of the quartz from the gold (leaching the quartz tailing in acids to recover what gold flowed over).

Smelting also may be a very good recovery method with this ore, I would crush, roast and smelt.
Action Mining in Sandy Oregon has the materials for the flux, and may be able to suggest a flux for your ore.

Now that I see the picture, it makes a big difference in what we have been discussing.


If you can get most of the gold from the ore into the brown precipitate you are showing in the last picture, without loosing gold in the process you are using now, I would just keep using that process, and just refine the gold and melt it.


----------



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 1, 2012)

I have a fair amount of the material. 8) So doing it efficiently is kind of helpfull. Can I just melt the gold chloride into silver in a melting dish or by itself? The precipitate is actually a light yellow color my camera isn't the best.


----------



## butcher (Nov 1, 2012)

The material in your beaker you would not need to quarter with silver, (I was talking about placer gold which would be around 60% gold with silver and other metals).

The gold powder in your beaker already looks fairly pure; you could refine it one more time and melt it.
Reading the forum and Hoke’s book you can refine your refining skills, and get the gold to high purity, Hoke's, and Harold's washing procedures (see Harold's post getting your gold pure and shining in the help needed section).


----------



## etack (Nov 2, 2012)

Why are you censoring your post it takes away from the whole thread.!!

Additionally you keep referring to what's in your bottle as gold chloride. it's not, if it was it would pull water out of the air and not look like that it would be red and wet looking. also you will not like the result of melting gold chloride you will lose your gold. If it indeed AuCl than add HCl and precipitate it. 



TheGoldenChild said:


> (censored) 8) So doing it efficiently is kind of helpfull. Can I just melt the gold chloride into silver in a melting dish or by itself? The precipitate is actually a light yellow color my camera isn't the best.


----------



## butcher (Nov 2, 2012)

TheGoldenChild,

Just when your posts were beginning to be understood by us with thick skulls you removed them, just as we were beginning to make progress, actually your picture and later posts gave me a whole new meaning of what you were discussing, and the ore you were dealing with, it also helped me to understand you knew more of what you were trying to describe than I thought you did, but by removing your post you removed the meaning of this thread, and now we are wasting forum space over a dead end discussion. 


Going back and editing your posts to change the meaning of the thread destroys the meaning of the thread, and is against forum rules.

Please read and follow the forum rules if you wish to remain a member.
I think you would benifit by hanging around.


----------



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 2, 2012)

butcher said:


> TheGoldenChild,
> 
> Just when your posts were beginning to be understood by us with thick skulls you removed them, just as we were beginning to make progress, actually your picture and later posts gave me a whole new meaning of what you were discussing, and the ore you were dealing with, it also helped me to understand you knew more of what you were trying to describe than I thought you did, but by removing your post you removed the meaning of this thread, and now we are wasting forum space over a dead end discussion.
> 
> ...



Iv'e never heard of anyone processing the way I do (besides the guy I learned it from and no longer can get info) so kind of wanted to keep it to myself until I seen someone else process the same way and didn't realize I blurted out so much until I posted it sorry. Iv'e only really made a little gold/silver mix that's even worth selling and that tests good and it was from sulphides so really i'm still learning.


----------



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 2, 2012)

etack said:


> Why are you censoring your post it takes away from the whole thread.!!
> 
> Additionally you keep referring to what's in your bottle as gold chloride. it's not, if it was it would pull water out of the air and not look like that it would be red and wet looking. also you will not like the result of melting gold chloride you will lose your gold. If it indeed AuCl than add HCl and precipitate it.
> 
> ...



I know I melted gold chloride before and lost 4 or 5 grams of it when doing so and only had a small BB when done what a waiste of time.


----------



## TheGoldenChild (Nov 2, 2012)

Don't think there's much I can do at this point anyway my stinking kiln isn't performing and needs new elements. Looks like i'll be digging ditches until I get it going again.
Thanks for everybody's help though.


----------



## nickvc (Nov 2, 2012)

TheGoldenChild said:


> butcher said:
> 
> 
> > TheGoldenChild,
> ...



I hate to rain on your parade but I doubt very much that anything you think is your own discovery when it comes to recovering or refining of precious metals hasn't been tried and discussed here on the forum in full and in open. 
Read the forum banner, professionals and amateurs helping one another, are you saying you want us to help you but what you think you know your not willing to share!
With that sort of attitude I feel the help here may well dry up very quickly and your stay may well be a short one.


----------



## Geo (Nov 2, 2012)

TheGoldenChild, like Nick said, people who come to the forum like this hardly stay long enough to learn anything. personally, i could care less if someone had a proprietary process and didnt want to share it. theres enough well known processes to fill any gap and its all right here.what gets to me is people alluding to this secret process and then removing post saying they dont want to share. to make a statement like this on the open forum goes against everything the forum stands for "Refiners helping one another". if it was secret, you should have remained silent. im reminded of a gentleman wanting to learn to refine a particular material (aircraft scrap) and there is a process for it only a handful of people have the knowledge to perform. he came here demanding information for one thing and then when he found all the information the forum would allow him, he deleted all his post saying he didnt want others learning his secrets. needless to say, he didnt learn anything else here because he was banned. this may not be that extreme, and all im saying is, the best way to keep a secret is to not tell anyone about it. 

i can tell you that there are senior members on the forum that have refined commercially for decades and the combined experience of the forum members may well cover a couple of centuries, so anything you feel you may know that others dont know is probably well known.


----------



## tamlove (Jun 18, 2013)

Hi everyone I'm new here. This is my second post ever. I'm new to refinig and I've done a lot of research on the subject. I'm about to start refining my first batch of plated stuff. But I have a bit of a problem. Through lots of research I could conclude that aqua regia can be made with 72% nitric and 32%hydrochloric acid. I can only get 60% nitric and 30% hydrochloric. Can I still make aqua regia at a 1:4 ratio or does this change? If it does change can anyon mabe tell me howmuch of what to use. Thanks in advance for any comment or advice on this.


----------



## butcher (Jun 19, 2013)

tamlove,

We will try to help you, but first we need you to understand a few things, the processes you are asking about are not simple, forget all that you think you know at this point, begin fresh to study, there is a lot you need to learn even before you should begin to use the acids, if you do not spend this time studying all you will do is make one mess after another and lose your gold, but with study you will learn the basics you need to help keep yourself out of problems, and even keep you from poisoning yourself.

start with Hokes book, search for the new printable copy of Hokes free on the forum found in the book section, this book is recovery and refining jewelery, but it gives the basic principles of recovery and refining for any material you will run into, doing the getting acquainted experiments in the book teaches you how different metals react to the acids, this knowledge can keep you out of trouble and give you the needed understanding of how to get yourself out of a mess.

Another section you should read before beginning is the safety section, a topic dealing with waste is one you should not skip.

In recovery or refining we deal with deadly gases and very dangerous solutions,and if not done properly even potential explosive mixtures of metals and solutions these can kill, or cripple a man, the waste can poison the people around you, learning how protect yourself and others and to treat your waste properly can keep you safe and those around you.

Also there is much to learn on the forum, tricks of the trade, many that Hokes book did not cover, begin your study of the forum with the guide to the forum in the general chat section, take the guided tour of the forum by following the links, these will lead you to many ways of processing your scrap to high quality metals worth much more.

I know you are anxious to get your gold, but trying to run before you learn to walk, all you will do is keep tripping and falling on your face, spend a little time learning to walk, and taking those baby steps and you will be able to stand and walk without falling, keep studying and before you know it you will be running and you will hardly ever trip, and when you do you will be able to correct yourself and finish this race to your gold.

Forget what you think you know about aqua regia, from your question I can see you have a lot to learn about it, It would take me an awful way too much time to explain what I have learned about it without writing you books, but you can begin by studying the material suggested and you too will learn what you need to understand.


----------



## solar_plasma (Jun 19, 2013)

tamlove,

yesterday you wanted to know about one of the most dangerous processes to get rid of the organics from ICs, that even I wouldn't come in mind using and you have stated, that you will go on "studying and experimenting" although they said, that you shouldn't even think of it. Now, with those few sentences in your question above, even I could write a book on the things, you definately not know yet. I know, in the beginning, proud of some doubtful successes, it is really hard to get a feeling for, what you do not know. If refining was a planet, you haven't even left your room and there is a city behind that door, you first have to know, before you should go on with the experiments.

Do some more study, read Hoke, evt. Ammen and definately the guided tour. When you have done this, everyone will answer your questions, even if they should be dump - I am asking dumb questions sometimes, too, that's ok for many - IF they see, you are doing your lessons and not are a danger to yourself or others. In some weeks, you will know, what I mean.



> Hi everyone I'm new here. This is my second post ever. I'm new to refinig and I've done a lot of research on the subject. I'm about to start refining



You are going to recover, not to refine.



> my first batch of plated stuff. But I have a bit of a problem. Through lots of research I could conclude that aqua regia



There are almost no cases, you want to use AR for recovering and especially NOT for plated stuff - unless there is gold or PGMs under that plating, but also then you will first use other processes, which nature depends on the kind of alloy.



> can be made with 72% nitric and 32%hydrochloric acid. I can only get 60% nitric and 30% hydrochloric. Can I still make aqua regia at a 1:4 ratio



If AR is used, you don't want to have more nitric in it, than absolutely necessary.


> or does this change? If it does change can anyon mabe tell me howmuch of what to use. Thanks in advance for any comment or advice on this.



That's like asking a mason, what ratio of cement, water and sand will work best. You have to get an understanding of the process, which of the compounds is doing what and how are they related to each other and what side effects can be expected.

You believe, you have done much research and study. I can tell you, when I started my first batch, just after watching all youtube videos again and again, not knowing this forum, I wouldn't have made 60% of those mistakes above. 
.


----------

