# Some thoughts about this forum



## solar_plasma (Jun 24, 2014)

About twice a year I get a personal mail from one or the other, who became sad about some harsh kind of leadership in this forum. Normally, I don't care much about those mails, but now I want to make some kind of declaration:

1) Guys, please take it as a man and stop whining to me personally.
2) This is not some kind of cuddling democracy. We are GUESTS in some kind of club. 
3) Everyone is free to leave. If I stay, I have to follow the rules. If I misliked them, why did I stay?
4) Everything the mods and the admin agree about IS a RULE. Until revised everything a single mod says is a rule, - he executes the householder's right and duty!
5) Please stop getting a heart attack each time you read the word "banned". By now everyone who got banned had got lots of chances to find back on the right trace again.
*6) Don't you take those my words in any way offensive, I like you all, want to learn from all of you and help, where I believe to be able to offer help!*

Thanks for your attention!


----------



## necromancer (Jun 24, 2014)

personally i don't know how to respond to your post other then saying "thank you"

"solar_plasma" you have been a very helpful, supportive & an integral member of this forum.
you have given as much, if not more then you have gained in your time here.



as for the rest of what i would truly like to say in this great and open forum, i will keep to myself. (nothing about solar_plasma)
it would only be responded to in a single manner. which i will avoid.


If you'd like to avoid it, then don't say it. Vague allusions don't sit well in this "great and open forum". 
Lou


----------



## maynman1751 (Jun 24, 2014)

Well stated Solar! If you don't like it here and don't want to abide by the rules of the forum, nobody is making you stay here. Not harsh. Just short and to the point.
All you have to do is some studying and reading on your own. It's all here.......for free. After you get a grasp on what recovery and refining is all about, then you will be able to ask your 'educated' questions and show that you are trying and really want to learn and not just have all of our hard earned knowledge and experience just handed to you. It's not that tough, but it does require some work on your part. That's all!


----------



## Anonymous (Jun 24, 2014)

Well I certainly haven't been mailing you, and I would suggest that anyone who felt they had the confidence to mail you won't be doing so again.


----------



## solar_plasma (Jun 24, 2014)

Spaceships, it was not meant personally to anyone and not pointed to some particular person and maybe it sounded more harsh than meant. I should have added, that I don't appreciate those mails, because I feel bad getting them. 

It's a mechanism described in organizational psychology: When a leader uses his power, the led individuals will at some point tend to start to build coalitions to compensate the balance of power. But this is not necessary here and would not gain the common good. I don't want to get involved in this. For me it feels like gossip (hope this is the right word), talking about a third person, who isn't present. Those persons didn't intend to do so, they just became victims of a group-psychological mechanism.

Maybe you, Spaceships, could have more understanding of my point. You said, your British humor can be misunderstood, - well this might be my northern-german aloofness.


Once again, it is NOT PERSONAL meant to anyone in particular, it is a declaration of my point of view and why I don't answer those mails. I don't think bad about anyone here.


----------



## necromancer (Jun 25, 2014)

If you'd like to avoid it, then don't say it. Vague allusions don't sit well in this "great and open forum". 

i have always seen it stated who the editor is, this time i don't see it, so i need to ask.

thanks


----------



## Lou (Jun 25, 2014)

I added to it, but did not edit your content otherwise. Understand that your comment is open to interpretation and basically an innuendo, so far as I read it.


Lou


----------



## necromancer (Jun 25, 2014)

well then how about if i do not leave any room for interpretation ?
how about i just say what should be said ?

first i will need to ask that there will not be any (whatsoever) repercussion for my honesty & openness from any person in connection with this forum
(this is where a mod agrees or disagrees).

before anyone agrees to (no repercussions) for what i will say, please put some thought into what it is that i may say.
and remember, posting here is having a conversation in canada, honesty goes well in canada, for the most part that is.

thank you


If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything. 
~Mark Twain


----------



## Anonymous (Jun 25, 2014)

Solar thanks for the reply. 

This is one of those threads that really doesn't do any good. Veiled inferences and inferred statements tend to cause problems. Personally I would have mailed the individual back privately and asked him to refrain from sending those emails. I wouldn't have made a thread over it that can cause drama and further misunderstandings.

I know you meant it for the best Solar however I don't think it works. I know I get into trouble on here for speaking as I find things in a direct manner, but there's certainly nobody in this community who has any doubt whatsoever where I stand on an issue and I like it that way. However I do believe that taking the other approach namely "not saying" things whilst inferring things, causes more issues in the long term. Doing one's best not to offend people often causes far more offence as a result.

My 5 cents worth for what it matters. 8) 

Jon


----------



## solar_plasma (Jun 25, 2014)

I just gave it a try. As you stated, there will probably be no one anymore who read this (no particular person, but maybe the next potential candidate) who will have confidence to tell me his problem with leadership... nothing else has been my intent, even if I have made myself a little more unsympathetic - I can live with that. And Jon, I am sure, we two could easily sit at one table and drink a bottle of guinness without ending in a fight.  Just two different kinds of Nordic men. Northern Germans have probably more in common with York than with Bavarians. I have been sailing up the Humber and people there are very much like the country side Angles where I live, if it is possible to generalize at all.


----------



## Anonymous (Jun 25, 2014)

Hey if you're talking Guinness then you're definitely talking my language :lol:


----------



## solar_plasma (Jun 25, 2014)

I can't count how often I have laid my hands to my head and thought: No, Jon, you just can't state this that way! :lol: Yeah a Guiness and a 17 years aged GlennGoyne and I am sure, we talk the same language. 8)

Cheers
Björn


----------



## Gratilla (Jun 25, 2014)

FWIW guys, I think we're stepping out onto an uneven playing field, littered with divots and cow patties.



solar_plasma said:


> 4) Everything the mods and the admin agree about IS a RULE. Until revised everything a single mod says is a rule, - he executes the householder's right and duty!


Interesting.

I particularly like Harold's Rules. They're no-nonsense, to the point and written down. They're not only clear, they're illuminated (and flashing). We know where the cow patties are and the penalty for stepping in one.

Me? When I see an injustice, I name names, specify the offence and justify it. Exactly in line with Harold's Rules.

<Doesn't always work though.>


----------



## necromancer (Jun 25, 2014)

Gratilla said:


> <Doesn't always work though.>



not everything works 100% of the time.


----------



## rickbb (Jun 26, 2014)

I'm still trying to figure out who or what the SMB was that precipitated this brown powder out of our solution.


----------



## necromancer (Jun 26, 2014)

rickbb said:


> I'm still trying to figure out who or what the SMB was that precipitated this brown powder out of our solution.




i think if Harold_V was here he would recomend a Charmin Plug.


----------



## Geo (Jul 3, 2014)

Typing a response is a cold and impersonal way to communicate. I say this because the spoken language can express emotion and the use of inflections can change the same phrase to something else. You can punctuate a sentence and give it some inflection for instance Statement : I'm a moron. Question : I'm a moron? Exclamation : I'M A MORON! Some people have a knack for gab in the written text and some (like me) often type one thing while meaning something else. I have had to apologize many times for sounding insensitive or harsh and meaning the exact opposite. If someone starts a conversation with someone else, unless it agreed upon, does either have the right to expect secrecy? If something is spoken of in confidence, shouldn't that be stressed by the interested party? We get into the mudslinging that happens with name calling and hurt feelings when we feel we have been slighted. The problem is compounded because it happens on the forum and is disruptive. 

The best way to keep a secret is to simply not tell anyone. If you are confiding in someone and ask for their discretion and they agree, you can expect a certain amount of loyalty. Anything short of this should not be discussed if it can disrupt the forum.


----------



## necromancer (Jul 3, 2014)

Geo said:


> Typing a response is a cold and impersonal way to communicate. I say this because the spoken language can express emotion and the use of inflections can change the same phrase to something else. You can punctuate a sentence and give it some inflection for instance Statement : I'm a moron. Question : I'm a moron? Exclamation : I'M A MORON! Some people have a knack for gab in the written text and some (like me) often type one thing while meaning something else. I have had to apologize many times for sounding insensitive or harsh and meaning the exact opposite. If someone starts a conversation with someone else, unless it agreed upon, does either have the right to expect secrecy? If something is spoken of in confidence, shouldn't that be stressed by the interested party? We get into the mudslinging that happens with name calling and hurt feelings when we feel we have been slighted. The problem is compounded because it happens on the forum and is disruptive.
> 
> The best way to keep a secret is to simply not tell anyone. If you are confiding in someone and ask for their discretion and they agree, you can expect a certain amount of loyalty. Anything short of this should not be discussed if it can disrupt the forum.




:!: Geo, That was awesome3 :!:

on many occasions i have tried to portray these same words, responding in text is purely Black & White unless it's a direct insult shooting one down.
I have also had to apologize for sounding insensitive or harsh and meaning the exact opposite :!: 
i have no problem at all saying that i was wrong, even if it is going to get me in more trouble by saying that i'm sorry. spewing out words just happens sometimes, i have even seen responses by moderators that were "completely uncalled for" and soon after edited to make things a little more clear, but we all have times where it just has to come out in one way or another.

but..... this forum is about recovery & refining & i "guess" people can not remember every post they read that has nothing to do with refining, on the other hand i do enjoy people speaking about themselves & there person. it ads colour to the monotonous black and white.
we have all read about this site being a book in progress. its not just a book but a collection of stories, stories from 50 years ago, stories from today. personality ads distinction to ones character.

different minds do different things, along with not having a grammar / spellchecker makes things harder for some,





and that's my 2 cents. thanks for reading


----------



## justme2 (Jul 3, 2014)

I'm a relative newbe here. I am a well respected, long time member of another form with many of it's members who are also members here. Like many others I asked newb questions. The first responses I received hit me with the same first thought as it does many who come here, Anal harsh and self aggrandized, however, I am into learning as I have little formal education so, reading THE BOOK, and hundreds and hundreds of posts it didn't take long to understand the reasoning and necessity if this "tough love ".

The free unencumbered info given on the other forum to any one who asks a question like "Where do I find metal ?" or" How much is a computer worth ? " has cost me dearly in time and money by creating literally thousands of Half a**ed "Scrappers" , many who become merely scavengers and smash and grabbers.

Many times I have seen the same question asked exactly the same way three times by different people in a single days posts and answered all three times.

In closing, I quickly understood the seemingly hardness of the response to some posts. I understand the dangers if what you do in the hands of those not willing to do the simplest homework. It's too late now but I wish the other forum had the same watchful and concerned attitude.

So, I wish to say thank you to the founders, the stalwarts and all the thoughtful contributors, moderators and ,those others always watchful for those who may be in over their heads or those who always want quick answers and the easy way out.

Sincerely M. C. Wier aka, justme2 and olddude.


----------



## Palladium (Jul 3, 2014)

justme2 said:


> It's too late now but I wish the other forum had the same watchful and concerned attitude.



That's what separates this forum from the others. Very acute observation sir.


----------



## Harold_V (Jul 4, 2014)

It has required of me to become a complete horse's ass on this board. I'd, by far, prefer to be amiable, but that doesn't seem to work with many. As a result, I've become unreasonable and demanding, but it has proven to be strangely effective in keeping this forum running as smoothly as one might hope. It's never an easy task to have a gathering of individuals from all walks of life,all parts of the globe, of different ethnic and religious convictions, expecting them to get along, or to do their homework in trying to learn what has been, for ages, the black art of refining precious metals. 

Yes, we're hard nosed here--and that's likely what spells the difference between a board that has value and one that is slowly converted to the monkeys running the zoo, where pissing matches are commonplace, and nothing of worth is discussed without those who can't control their big mouths adding nothing to the conversation but noise pollution. That's not going to happen here, not so long as I have a say in how the board operates. I learned the lesson well when, in the year 2000, I was a reader of RCM (Recreational Crafts and Metalworking), where there was no moderation and a wolf pack mentality. Those who had something of value to contribute were quickly shouted down by the ignorant masses. 

I offer no apology for my attitude, nor is one needed. Were it not for the strict policy that was set on this board, long ago, today it would have become worthless, just as others have, where individuals don't have enough wisdom or self control to keep unwanted comments off a board, nor enough wisdom to not coddle those who refuse to help themselves, expecting a "free ride", never contributing anything of value, nor exerting themselves in the least. 

This board is about helping those who wish to learn refining, and are willing to follow simple instructions (like reading Hoke's book), and refraining from posting stupid questions (all are stupid when asked by those who have no clue, and are not willing to learn the basics, so they don't have need to ask the questions). Anyone who has a motive beyond that which I have just described is not going to get along well on this board, as they will quickly wear out their welcome.

If any of the readers do not agree with the way this board is operated, please note that each is free to leave. Each is also free to contact the owner, presenting a different plan. Who knows, maybe he'll like it. 8) 

Harold


----------



## justinhcase (Jul 4, 2014)

Every good school I have ever attended had a rather gruff head master or mistress in charge.
But all always knew even tho they would occasionally choose an unlucky pupil to pull out of the ranks and punish.
That underneath it they where in that position because they had a life long interest in the welfare of there charges.
The same people who would administer the cane would also be the one's going out of there way to help when a pupil really needed help.
I for one have nothing but admiration for how Harold_V administrates over such a glorious rabble as is represented on this wonderful forum.
Just


----------



## Geo (Jul 4, 2014)

Forget E.F. Hutton, when Harold talks, people listen. 8)


----------



## Kumar _V (Jul 4, 2014)

Here is my though on this forum: You spend more time talking about this kind of thing than you talk about refining Gold.


----------



## butcher (Jul 4, 2014)

Harold_V said:


> It has required of me to become a complete horse's ass on this board. I'd, by far, prefer to be amiable, but that doesn't seem to work with many. As a result, I've become unreasonable and demanding, but it has proven to be strangely effective in keeping this forum running as smoothly as one might hope. It's never an easy task to have a gathering of individuals from all walks of life,all parts of the globe, of different ethnic and religious convictions, expecting them to get along, or to do their homework in trying to learn what has been, for ages, the black art of refining precious metals.
> 
> Yes, we're hard nosed here--and that's likely what spells the difference between a board that has value and one that is slowly converted to the monkeys running the zoo, where pissing matches are commonplace, and nothing of worth is discussed without those who can't control their big mouths adding nothing to the conversation but noise pollution. That's not going to happen here, not so long as I have a say in how the board operates. I learned the lesson well when, in the year 2000, I was a reader of RCM (Recreational Crafts and Metalworking), where there was no moderation and a wolf pack mentality. Those who had something of value to contribute were quickly shouted down by the ignorant masses.
> 
> ...



:!:


----------



## butcher (Jul 4, 2014)

Recovery and refining is mainly about separation of the valuable metals from the unwanted or more worthless gangue, or metal.

Basically: separation of the chaff from the wheat.

In recovery or refining there are also problem metals, or substances that can get in the way of doing this effectively.

Eliminating these problem metals or substances early on in the recovery stage, and removing or eliminating these during the processing of the refining stage, will give better results throughout the process, insuring a more pure and valuable end product.

This forum is about recovery and refining of precious metals.

This forum itself requires some recovery and refining, basically separation of chaff from the wheat, to keep it on track of achieving the final goal of producing a finer end product.

In this, I have to agree 100%, with Harold's comments.

It may also be time we do some more recovery and refining of the forum.
Separation of the chaff from the wheat.

So that we all have a better forum, with the more desired end results, of helping those who are truly willing to work, and to learn, and help others, in this valuable science, art, and skill of recovery of refining those precious metals.

This forum is a true gem of a precious nature, which would be a shame to lose, to the chaff.


----------



## Harold_V (Jul 4, 2014)

Kumar _V said:


> Here is my though on this forum: You spend more time talking about this kind of thing than you talk about refining Gold.


Why do you suppose that is?

I suggest you choose your words wisely. 

Harold


----------



## Smack (Jul 4, 2014)

What is a though? Are they expensive?


----------



## Shark (Jul 4, 2014)

Just my thoughts on the subject. When I found this forum, like many that find it, I only had enough bits and pieces of the subject of refining to get myself in trouble. Luckily I knew there had to be more to it so I never attempted any of it. Now, I am very glad I waited. I am better armed with knowledge to make small steps. The so called harshness of some moderators might seem overly tough to many, but provides a cleaner learning atmosphere that I enjoy. As so many reference Harold on the subject, I will say that he has put much time into providing some excellent knowledge into this field with free help, as well as attempting to provide it in an uncluttered atmosphere, and that deserves to be respected. I once spent several years on a large forum that the owner tried to hire moderators to run it, ( with no actual knowledge of the subject), that it almost destroyed one of the oldest forums on the world wide web. I would hate to see that happen here, or anywhere else that provides sound, fact based knowledge, for free. Keyword here is *FREE*. All that is required is the following of a few rules. If a person came in my house and got crazy, or violent by my rules, in my house, I would boot a person as well. Been there, done that. I would expect a person to do the same to me if I went to their house and disrespected them or their family as well. Being a moderator (yes I have been in that position) is to often a thankless, hard job to do but with out them only chaos will survive. If the owner wanted it ran otherwise, it would be done so. I will get off my little soap box now.....

But a word of Thanks, to all the moderators and others with knowledge that they freely share with those (such as myself) that were ignorant of the complexities of refining, and for providing a place to learn so that my ignorance can be dealt with properly, and safely.

Thank You, all!


----------



## Claudie (Jul 10, 2014)

This forum is a great place to learn, if that is what you are after. Some people drift in here looking for a way to throw an old computer in a bucket of some secret solution and get a Gold coin out. Those kind usually don't last long here, and if they do, they have a completely different view of things after taking some time to learn. I don't personally know anyone here, but I feel like I do. A bunch of great guys & gals with a lot of knowledge to share. If the forum didn't have active moderators, it wouldn't be what it is today. I finally found where I wrote my password down, so maybe I can visit more often now! :roll:


----------

