# making nitric with oxalic acid and silver nitrate and HCL



## Anonymous (Mar 28, 2008)

The third question is easiest, so I'll answer it first. The reaction 
AgNO3(aq) + HCl(aq) ® HNO3(aq) + AgCl(s) 

is not an acid-base reaction but rather is possible because of solubilities: to wit, silver chloride is insoluble in water. Any combination which will produce silver chloride will tend to occur, especially if it can leave something soluble (like a solution of H+ and NO3-) behind. 
My first suspicion is that the first and second reactions happen by similar mechanisms. So I checked the water solubilities of calcium oxalate ("practically insoluble") and calcium sulfate (0.2 g/100 g) in the Merck Index. What this means is that the calcium ion has a much stronger affinity for oxalate than for sulfate, and so the sulfate ions (along with the H+ from the oxalic acid) can be removed by washing with water. All that then remains is to evaporate the water, and you will have sulfuric acid "of the highest degree of purity." 

Presumably the same trick would work using calcium nitrate ("very soluble in water") and oxalic acid. 
the above is from a page that I copied.

According to it you can make nitric with Ca(NO3)s and oxalic acid. It said that the Calcium Oxalate is nearly insulable and this method can also make sulfuric. 

If you read above it seems you could recycle your nitric acid by treating the silver nitrate with HCL

Now I am not saying any of this will actually work but from the equations it seems like it should.


----------



## lazersteve (Mar 28, 2008)

James,

I too have studied the solubility tables throughly. The big problem with oxalic compounds are their toxicity, from inhalation, absorptions, and ingestion. 

Aside from the oxalate issue, the silver route seems all fine, but typically the by product of your reactions with silver nitrate is copper nitrate. It's not considered good practice to produce silver chloride unless absolutely necessary. 

There is another more practical solution, that I will post once it is confirmed and reviewed.

Steve


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 28, 2008)

Steve I just thaught it would be cool to make nitric acid from rhubarb and bat droppings, that I what I would consider all natual.


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 28, 2008)

I checked out oxalic acid the stuff is everywhere, deck cleaner, bleach, rust inhibitor.

No disrespect, but, if I can find cheap calcium nitrate I am going to give it a try. 

I will let you know how it goes. That calcium oxalate solubility if I am remembering right was .0007 grams.


----------



## lazersteve (Mar 28, 2008)

James,

None taken, just be safe and responsible when you dispose of the stuff.

Steve


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 28, 2008)

From what I have been reading on this it will capture copper, iron, nickel
may be a way to regerate the nitric from there nitrate solutions. forming an insoluble salt. I do believe a good resperator is a worthwhile idea.
I am going to do a small sample experiment, if it would well I will buy a resperator and proceed from there. I also would use gloves and lab coat.


----------



## peter i (Mar 29, 2008)

oxalic acid will precipitate silver solutions as silver oxalate, that is a potential explosive hazard.

I've never made it go boom myself, but it is considered a possible hazard when making oxalates as synthesis precursors.


----------



## SilverNitrate (Mar 29, 2008)

peter i said:


> oxalic acid will precipitate silver solutions as silver oxalate, that is a potential explosive hazard.
> 
> I've never made it go boom myself, but it is considered a possible hazard when making oxalates as synthesis precursors.


Yup, silver oxalate is explosive, make sure you not make a large amount or let it go dry.


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 29, 2008)

I plan on using it with calcium nitrate or copper nitrate
no silver.


----------



## Lino1406 (Apr 3, 2008)

Save your time it will not go, as other
processes you mentioned. There are
other considerations except solubility


----------

