# I Need Suggestions For A Table....



## He's Dead Jim (Aug 16, 2008)

Hi everyone...

I just joined a short time ago and have been losing myself in all the awesome info on this site, lol..

I have a 20 foot cargo container that is sitting in the parking lot of an industrial area near where I live..

I want to turn it into a shop for metal recycling and refining....

I will be running the place on small scale solar and wind power so electric costs and time will not be a concern for me...

But back to the question. haha..

Are there any particular types of tables or benches that any of you use with respects to possible chemical reactions??

or maybe a better question would be, what type of tables not to use??

thanks...


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## Noxx (Aug 16, 2008)

Well, I use a plywood table covered with a few layers of plastic. You can use a lot of materials. I think a table covered with laminate would be great.

What would not be compatible for sure would be a table covered with leather lol.


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## He's Dead Jim (Aug 16, 2008)

Noxx said:


> Well, I use a plywood table covered with a few layers of plastic. You can use a lot of materials. I think a table covered with laminate would be great.
> 
> What would not be compatible for sure would be a table covered with leather lol.



hahahaha... thanks..


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## Lou (Aug 16, 2008)

My counters are an epoxy based material. On plywood benches, however, you can easily purchase a teflon film that can be applied over the wood. 

Metal is the worst choice for a counter top material, and for construction of a laboratory because it will corrode rapidly.


Lou


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## He's Dead Jim (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks much...

I had dismissed metal from the start because it would kinda be self defeating, and straight wood soaks up stuff, as i found out years ago in my board etching days.....LOL...

I had considered laminate, but i'll look into teflon as well...

i'm not sure about most plastics because of the static electricity factors, but that's possible too...


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Aug 16, 2008)

I'd be interested on how you'll be powering this shop of yours.
Can you post more details on that or perhaps send me a message about it?
I've had an interest in free energy technology for a long time.

Thanks and welcome.


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## He's Dead Jim (Aug 16, 2008)

NuggetHuntingFool said:


> I'd be interested on how you'll be powering this shop of yours.
> Can you post more details on that or perhaps send me a message about it?
> I've had an interest in free energy technology for a long time.
> 
> Thanks and welcome.



sure, no problem....

i don't have the exact specs yet, but i will be looking for some broken / damaged solar panes and some probably 1 or 2 small rooftop wind turbines...

the cargo container is 20feet x 10 feet x 10 feet...

i was a tech for years so repairs for that stuff are easy for me...

it's basically solar panels and / or wind turbines, hooked into a regulator and used to charge a bank of deep cycle batteries like the kind used on boats...

the battery output is hooked into an inverter which converts it to 120v AC...

you can check out some do it yourself stuff on here...

http://www.instructables.com/

type solar or wind into the search bar and read away...

tons of other good stuff there too...

if you google solar power or wind power, make sure that you include do it yourself in the search... it has a lot more info that way...


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## He's Dead Jim (Aug 16, 2008)

also, when this project actually gets started, i will make a thread about it and do the step by step thing from empty container, to recycle shop...

that will probably start in september...


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## NuggetHuntingFool (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks!


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## Oz (Aug 17, 2008)

The one limitation I see is that you will need to do heating and melting operations without electric as they are large consumers of KWHs and they will overwhelm a system of the size you are implying unless you have a very large battery bank and only very occasional use. 

Now if you wanted to get off the hook with it you could use parabolic reflectors to melt your PMs and set up a solar heat system with a high temp oil as the heat exchange medium to have on demand controlled heating for solutions and reactions.

I don’t mean to discourage anyone from using renewable energy but labs can be high load facilities. The first investment you should make is a KILL-A-WATT meter that you can plug into your wall outlet then you plug your appliance into it. It will track your usage in KWHs and display volts, amps, watts, frequency and VA. In this way you can determine your electrical loads for each piece of equipment you currently use over the course of a week or a month. Once you have added up your total consumption you will have an idea of how large of a system you will need. 

For solar electric panels you will need to look up the solar insolation for your area to get the total kilowatt/hours available per day in your area on average (remember to use the low figure if you wish to work in the winter) then multiply the wattage of your panels, times the hours available, times the efficiency rating of the panel. Do not forget to calculate the maximum load at one moment in time with all items powered on at once so you have a battery bank that can discharge at that rate and an inverter that can handle the max load. You also need to add up resistance losses of your system.

They have similar charts for available wind in your area and you will need to do the same calculations. 

If you want to work in comfort during the winter and are using a vent hood, don’t forget that you will have your heat load literally go through the roof at the rate of 100 cfm for a proper hood. By the way solar water for heat is several fold more efficient than solar electric on a square meter collector basis.

In Nuggets case there is 2.70 KWHs per square meter during the winter in East Lansing Michigan for solar. Lansing has an annual wind speed average of 9.9mph on a 50 meter tower. These are just some starting numbers. 

Anyone with common sense can build a system, but most have expectations above reality. Personally I would use a slow speed diesel genset on alternative fuels if I wanted to claim a green energy refinery. Just make sure you do your homework first as these can get expensive, unless it is a hobby thing like refining can be


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## He's Dead Jim (Aug 17, 2008)

Oz said:


> The one limitation I see is that you will need to do heating and melting operations without electric as they are large consumers of KWHs and they will overwhelm a system of the size you are implying unless you have a very large battery bank and only very occasional use.
> 
> Now if you wanted to get off the hook with it you could use parabolic reflectors to melt your PMs and set up a solar heat system with a high temp oil as the heat exchange medium to have on demand controlled heating for solutions and reactions.
> 
> ...





All excellent points...

i've been using kill a watt meters around the house for years....

as for the rest, i have a general plan for this project, but like all projects, the specific factors change depending on location, budget, work load, etc...

i will probably be using some type of gas or possibly a solar furnace for the melting stuff...

the electric is mostly for the electrolysis part....


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## SapunovDmitry (Aug 17, 2008)

I use a glass sheet placed on a wooden table for my bench.
When i heat something i use ceramics above the glass. Though i change the glass one time in 3-5 months i think it is great.


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## He's Dead Jim (Aug 17, 2008)

kool...

i hadn't thought of glass for a table cover...


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## He's Dead Jim (Aug 17, 2008)

glass would probably be the best solution for me because i have a history in the window business, so i could probably get some cheap....

hmmm...


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## istari9 (Aug 18, 2008)

I have two glass store counter displays with 4 drawers in each and sliding doors. I store the glassware inside the chemicals in the drawers and work on the tops.

Ray


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## GeeDub (Feb 20, 2009)

In my first refining setup, when I was just learning, I had to use the cheapest things available. 
I made a plywood bench and covered the top with cheap ceramic tile from a hardware chain.
Worked all right, acid and chemicals couldn't hurt it. Sealed the grout with polyurethane floor finish so it wouldn't absorb much.
Some beakers slid around on it, and I had to remember to put them down gently (before I learned of "Corelle Living Ware").

In my second setup, I moved to acrylic porch and deck paint on wood. That way I could burn it for sweeps and spills at the end of it's life. Used glazed floor tiles a trivets.


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## EDI Refining (Feb 20, 2009)

We use a Granite counter top w/ 316L SS frame. This is expensive though


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