# refining silver, palladium and platinum from same solution.



## mythen10 (Jun 25, 2022)

Hi I have a question, i wanna dissolve some relay contacts (silver palladium alloy) in nitric acid . My question is next : to recover silver and palladium is good to drop first silver from solution with sodium chloride dissolved in little water and after check the solution for platinum with ammonium chloride and in final after filtration of silver chloride and platinum if is present to put in solution some concentrated HCl acid to make aqua regia and after neutralise the nitric with urea and in the final step to add aluminium ? IT IS GOOD TO RECOVER THE PALLADIUM IN THIS WAY WITH ALLUMINIUM?(I don't have acces to zinc and dimerhylglioxime) THE PALLADIUM WILL DROP WITH ALLUMINIUM?


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## 4metals (Jun 25, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> check the solution for platinum with ammonium chloride


You have to deNOx the solution for the Platinum to come down with ammonium chloride. Better to co-mingle the Platinum and Palladium after you get rid of the Silver by cementing. 
You will be able to cement directly from the solution after the silver is dropped without going to the adding of Hydrochloric Acid. 
Why don’t you drop the Palladium with copper? Less base metals to deal with down the line. Copper only drops precious metals and mercury. (which isn’t likely in there anyway) 
Contacts often have solder or pieces of reeds or rocker arms that allow the contact to move in the device. So you will likely have other base metals which aluminum would drop but copper will not.


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## mythen10 (Jun 25, 2022)

is complicated to drop with copper ,I ask for a simple way to drop with alluminium, my question is simple 1.after dropping the silver with salt water and filter the silver chloride 2.i add some HCl to the solution to make aqua regia and neutralise the nitric 3.check for platinum and 4. drop the palladium with alluminium 
IT WILL WORK? ( I hate to use copper, I use to drop silver with copper in past and I don't have good results)


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 25, 2022)

Dropping Silver with copper is easy.
Pt and Pd slightly more complicated.
It needs good agitation and heat.
Al will take all and you will need to redissolve to clean it.


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## mythen10 (Jun 25, 2022)

aha I understand , with alluminium will work thanks for answer, IS NOT A PROBLEM IF ARE ANOTHER METALS WHEN I DROP WITH ALLUMINIUM( to don't be platinum because is a problem) after I drop with alluminium I will refine the powder , I will redissolve in aqua regia the palladium and I will check again with amonium chloride for presence of platinum and after I will precipitate the palladium with hydrogen chloride gas to get a red brick palladium salt and after I will rerefine again


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## mythen10 (Jun 25, 2022)

I don't like the copper is complicated, in silver nitrate solution when I cemented the silver a lot off copper it was going in silver(because the nitrate solution it start to eat the copper) and I get 99% purity of silver , it was more easy to drop silver chloride and use lye and shugar to get the 99.9silver , using copper you will not get pure silver


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## 4metals (Jun 25, 2022)

I did not suggest dropping the silver with copper, what I suggested was dropping the PGM’s with copper after you dropped the Silver Chloride.


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## 4metals (Jun 25, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> I don't was know if my question it was posted. is complicated





mythen10 said:


> is complicated to drop with copper





mythen10 said:


> I don't like the copper is complicated



Refining can be complicated and you seem to be dealing with complications already. Come back and tell us how complicated it was to get the PGM’s out of all the base metals aluminum dropped.


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 25, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> I don't like the copper is complicated, in silver nitrate solution when I cemented the silver a lot off copper it was going in silver(because the nitrate solution it start to eat the copper) and I get 99% purity of silver , it was more easy to drop silver chloride and use lye and shugar to get the 99.9silver , using copper you will not get pure silver


You need to stop.
Until you have read and understand what you are doing.
PGM salts are very toxic.
Read C.M.Hokes book and search the forum. There are tons of information there.
Why are you so hell bent on testing with AmmoniumChloride???
It is much better to test with Stannous Chloride.
Something you would know if you had read the required information on this forum.
I wonder if your information comes from you tube????


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## mythen10 (Jun 26, 2022)

I know platinum salts are dangerous, my knowledge are from internet after I read a lot and I look some videos I make a synthesis and now I have a conclusion, me I was referred dropping silver with copper in general not in this case . I never recover PGM because all my PGM stuff I collect for this day to have a big amount, I recover a lot of gold and silver and is very funny for recover gold. BUT I FIND ON INTERNET A LOT OF METHODS OF GOLD RECOVERY WHO DONT WORK MOVIES WICH ARE LYES


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## mythen10 (Jun 26, 2022)

if the solution have PD and PT you must remove first the platinum using ammonium chloride in this case using a sncl test for platinum is not possible because solution have palladium to and the colour will be black PD possitve (for platinum is a yellow colour.
I read a lot and they say the most difficult part of refine PGM metals is to separate PLATINUM AND PALLADIUM this is the reason you should use ammonium chloride at every refine and rerefine step of palladium to try removing all platinum out. (VERY IMPORTANT!! sncl test don't show nothing if in a solution is small amount of gold)
What I try with PGM ? I dissolve sample in nitric acid and I use a sncl test and I get BLACK for palladium and YELLOW for platinum.


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 26, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> if the solution have PD and PT you must remove first the platinum using ammonium chloride in this case using a sncl test for platinum is not possible because solution have palladium to and the colour will be black PD possitve (for platinum is a yellow colour.
> I read a lot and they say the most difficult part of refine PGM metals is to separate PLATINUM AND PALLADIUM this is the reason you should use ammonium chloride at every refine and rerefine step of palladium to try removing all platinum out. (VERY IMPORTANT!! sncl test don't show nothing if in a solution is small amount of gold)
> What I try with PGM ? I dissolve sample in nitric acid and I use a sncl test and I get BLACK for palladium and YELLOW for platinum.


Well Pd will give a greenish color that may go to the black if concentrated.
Ammonium chloride will also pull Pd out of solution as Ammonium tetrachloropalladate.
Even DMG methods will pull Pt with it.

Search this forum and you will find what you need if you have patience.


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## mythen10 (Jun 26, 2022)

yes a very small amount of palladium will go out with platinum when add ammonium chloride but can be recovered when refine platinum but is not big deal important is to get in final pure palladium because is very pricey


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 26, 2022)

Read about bromate hydrolysis and the surround threads on the forum.
There are some first class information there.


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## orvi (Jun 28, 2022)

You seems a bit over-hyped about that aluminium  

If you dissolve AgPd contact points in nitric, you get a whole bunch of copper, tin, lead and depending on manufacture dat even cadmium into the solution. So you drop silver with salt, which leaves you with Pd solution alongside with base metals. When you stick the aluminium into it, you will firstly need to kill all the nitric with that aluminium, and then ALL of the metals will drop. Aside of creating ammonium chloride in situ in the solution (due to nitric deep reduction to ammonium nitrate in solution), you are practically going backwards.

You intended a separation, but you will only truely separate silver. Palladium will be mixed in the junk with everything else. So you will need to re-refine the Pd again.
If you use copper, you will precipitate ONLY palladium. If you do not want to construct the cementing rig (bubbling in tube with hanged copper bar), you can use magnetic stirrer instead. 

You will be left with a very small bit of cement compared to all junk you will cement with aluminium. Nobody is using aluminium for this purpose. It has a reason 

Test with stannous chloride. Ammonium chloride won´t tell you anything if the Pt is diluted in solution.


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

cooper cementation in general sucks.
this is a easy way for drop of with alluminium,of course PD must be refine after. After silver drop with table salt to the nitric solution I will add HCl acid to make aqua regia and after nitric will be neutralise with urea I will try concentrate solution and keep adding HCl and after I will add some ammonium chloride (is a routine step for drop PT if is present) and in final PD drop with alluminium metal and clean with HCl. And after will be another 2 step for refine in pure 99,9 of metal. 
is so hahhahahard


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 29, 2022)

Why do you guys refer to denoxing as neutralizing???
Destroying Nitric and NOx is NOT a neutralising step, it is a decomposition/destruction step.
Neutralising is pushing the pH to 7 from higher or lower and will do nothing much to Nitric or NOx. 
It will however create hydroxides that may make your refining even harder.


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

wtfffffff


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

this is crazy?


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

I use urea for kill nitric


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

and the solution will be acidic pH 1


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

the nitric can be removed in 2 ways add nitric or evaporate


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

of the nitric can be removed in 2 ways add urea or evaporate


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

and me when I concentrate the solution I will add HCl acid because chlorine from acid will easy evaporate when boil and wil remain only water and addition of HCl acid is needed to keep a strong acidic solution


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 29, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> I use urea for kill nitric


It will only convert superfluous NO3 to Urea Nitrate which in certain conditions can be explosive.
Sulfamic acid on the other hand will destroy nitric and NOx and create Sulfuric which can be beneficial if there are lead present.


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## Yggdrasil (Jun 29, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> and me when I concentrate the solution I will add HCl acid because chlorine from acid will easy evaporate when boil and wil remain only water and addition of HCl acid is needed to keep a strong acidic solution


If you evaporate to dryness, add a bit of plain salt to keep the PGMs in the correct state.


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## Shark (Jun 29, 2022)

Urea will not kill nitric. It kills the NOx that nitric generates. This is why, if using urea, it is best to drop your gold and filter it out before it goes back into solution. Given time, after using urea, there is a real potential for it to regenerate NOx and start dissolving the gold again. Urea works best for those in a rush to get to the gold. (Being in a rush is a good way to make mistakes) Sulfamic acid actually kills off the nitric (which stops the NOx regeneration as well) with the added benefit of reducing any lead from solution as well.


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## Shark (Jun 29, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> and me when I concentrate the solution I will add HCl acid because chlorine from acid will easy evaporate when boil and wil remain only water and addition of HCl acid is needed to keep a strong acidic solution


This sounds like the method Hoke used but language barriers may be causing confusion.

Evaporate to near dryness. (not to full dryness) Add hydrochloric to reacidify and add liquid volume. Doing this as many times as needed until no red NOx fumes are generated then drop your gold.


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

not gold


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

palladium


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## Shark (Jun 29, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> of the nitric can be removed in 2 ways add urea or evaporate





Shark said:


> Urea will not kill nitric. It kills the NOx that nitric generates. This is why, if using urea, it is best to drop your gold and filter it out before it goes back into solution. Given time, after using urea, there is a real potential for it to regenerate NOx and start dissolving the gold again. Urea works best for those in a rush to get to the gold. (Being in a rush is a good way to make mistakes) Sulfamic acid actually kills off the nitric (which stops the NOx regeneration as well) with the added benefit of reducing any lead from solution as well.



Yes, you are working towards the palladium.

Urea does not remove nitric, it kills the NOx that nitric creates in AR.

Do not dry the AR to complete dryness.

By evaporating to a thick syrup and adding hydrochloric you remove the nitric, when done right.

To remove the nitric, it should have read,

"Evaporate to near dryness. (not to full dryness) Add hydrochloric to re-acidify and add liquid volume. Doing this as many times as needed until no red NOx fumes are generated then drop your gold."

I still believe we are thinking the same thing, just not getting it in writing very well.


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

right now I work with gold and when I will have time I will start working with palladium


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

AND NOW I WAIT THE SURPRISE I get the points contacts from a USSR phone central with around 120 relay , cutting the contacts I get around 320 gr material metal+points contacts (the contacts are small points silver palladium alloy). and now I don't know how much palladium i will get.
Only the contacts without any metal have around 60 gr and I don't know how much is silver and palladium, is first time when I deal with PGM


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

I read on internet are relay contacts with 20% palladium , and I look on internet somebody get more than 50% palladium from phone central relays


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## Shark (Jun 29, 2022)

mythen10 said:


> AND NOW I WAIT THE SURPRISE I get the points contacts from a USSR phone central with around 120 relay , cutting the contacts I get around 320 gr material metal+points contacts (the contacts are small points silver palladium alloy). and now I don't know how much palladium i will get.
> Only the contacts without any metal have around 60 gr and I don't know how much is silver and palladium, is first time when I deal with PGM


Now we have something to look forward to. Please post how it goes when processing these. I have never had an opportunity to work with that type material.


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## mythen10 (Jun 29, 2022)

but I have another small relay from circuit boards wich is more than 90% palladium contacts


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