# Black chip's done on the cheep



## labworks (Mar 12, 2013)

Black chip's...you love um, there every where.....BUT, Burning them just wont work. Be it neighbors, the town, or just some guy driving by the house who has nothing better to do, then stick his nose in your business.

ok so try this:
Start with a few assorted black chips

now take a trip to the store, get a blade from a garden edger ( cost $10) a 2 foot thredded rod with nuts ($10 ish) and a 5 gallon pail with lid.
Dril a hole in the center of the lid just large enough for the threded rod to fit threw. ( I put a small pice of PVC pipe to protect the lid from being ground up by the thredded rod.
Put the edger blade on one end of the rod, and secure it with the nuts ( if you sharpen the blade it will work a lot faster, but if you have spare time, and no file, a unsharpened will work too, just slower)
Fasten the other end of the rod to a electric drill, add chips the the bucket, place the lid on, and in about a half hour of mixing, you have chips turned to pouder (see pictures of the hole thing). ok so that gets them ground up without a smell. the rig makes about as much noise as running a lawn mower in you'r living room , so if your in an appartment, sorry this may not be for you.

next is where i'm gonna need some help

I cooked the powder in a beaker with HCL and water for 3 hours on the grill, I could see the liquid had turned green with the copper it had consumed. I can also see black fibers ( about the size and shape of the gold fibers you get when you burn the chips) I will assume that i am looking at the gold threds, there just not gold in collor yet. 
I plan to filter next and wash with water.
this is where i will need some help, do i want to make up a batch of HCL/CL and add the black filtered remains to it so it can desolve the gold? ( I would then filter again , leaving me with the HCL/CL/Au in liquid, and the chip resin in the filter)
thanks for your help, lets see if the pictures show up with the post.


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## labworks (Mar 12, 2013)

Oooop's posted pics backwards, but you get the idea


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## Lino1406 (Mar 12, 2013)

To dissolve copper HCl is not enough
add H2O2


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## labworks (Mar 12, 2013)

I will do that next, i figure a nother 3 hr cook should do it. 
I did a test a while back, broke a black chip to expose the inards, then made a test tube of HCL/CL, and threw it in without any prep. I wanted to see what would happen to the black resin.....three months later, i can still read the printing on the chip, due to discoloration, i am unable to see if anything is missing ( the exposed metal)
The idea was to find a solution that would leave the resin intact, so that no burning was required.


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## resabed01 (Mar 12, 2013)

Great idea for those that can't incinerate. Just a couple of comments.
Looks like your bucket is getting thin on the inside. I imagine a hole will develop shortly, something to be aware of. If you can reduce or cut off the legs on the ICs, I'm sure the bucket will last longer.
It would be better if you could find a steel container to subsitute for the plastic bucket.
Also, sort out the ceramic chips from the lot first. They don't need to be pulverized in this manner and it will cut down on the bucket abrasion and trash in your mix. Thanks for sharing the pictures


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## labworks (Mar 12, 2013)

I have been keeping an eye on the bucket for wear spots, and saw that due to my holding the drill, I hit the wall of the bucket often, i am thinking about a steel bin i can mount below my drill press for stability, and durability. ( and so i can do something els while it chips it up. 
and i will sort out the fiber from the resin chips, i was woundering what might happen to the fiber ones, so i threw a few in to see how it would handle them, it wasnt that good at it, so there arnt any in the final dust.

Thank you for the input, what other improvments might i make?


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## g_axelsson (Mar 12, 2013)

I have a hard time to believe that any gold wires would survive this treatment without breaking. If you see any black fibrous material it is probably remnants from the glass fiber board in the BGA packages (the green ones with a golden notch).
My guess is that your gold is mixed in with the powder really good, the best way to extract the gold is probably to remove the base metals with HCl and then leaching the gold from the resulting sludge.

Göran


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## seanconnrey (Apr 11, 2013)

first thing after what u did is :

-1-dessolve all base metal with HCL esspicialy Sn
-2-dessolve all with AR with A smal cantit of hno3 tthis wil be done 
with gently heating
-3-filter very well
-4-get rid of exec hno3 with copper wire unitil no copper is dessolved
-5-precipitate with mix of smb+Iron(II) sulfate
-6-wash your powder with water next hcl(boiling)
-7-wash your powder with water next hno3 (boiling)
-8-milting with torsh botane+o2


-9- excuse my language idont speak english very well i'm form morroco


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## g_axelsson (Apr 11, 2013)

Step 4 will cement some or all of your gold.

Search the forum on how to remove excess nitric. Best in this case would be to evaporate off, NOT BOILING, the nitric and adding back HCl. Repeat until no more nitric remains.

Going from step 6 to step 7 without incineration will dissolve some gold. I think that step 7 isn't necessary, no one else is doing it .

Göran


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## seanconnrey (Apr 11, 2013)

copper is a good stuff for cementation of gold
this way after step 4 u do not filter the solution u just add the reducing agent

form step 6 to step 7 u have to wash four or five time with wather 
step 8 is nessecery if do not went to refine your powder 

finnally tanx for your advice i use this metod because i do not have 
a good chimestry matrail.


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## butcher (Apr 11, 2013)

seanconnrey,

You are new to the forum, we welcome you, you will find this forum a great place to learn, I think you will soon be over whelmed with information you never knew existed.

You have many things a bit mixed up, you really should spend some time studying, You will see that what you know right now is really very little, I am not sure where you learned it but it is misinformation and just plain wrong.

Start with Hokes book there is a link to free download in the book section, and many members signature line.

Copper will cement gold from solution as a recovery method, but it will also cement other metals, for this reason we will sometimes use it for a recovery method, but never for a refining method, there would be no reason to add a chemical to try to reduce gold from this solution that you used copper to cement, as you would have no gold or value in the solution, only copper and other metals in the reactivity series which are above copper.

Again welcome to the forum we look forward to you learning more and then sharing with us what you learn.


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## bswartzwelder (Apr 11, 2013)

One thing that jumped out at me was Mr. Connrey said to wash ith water and then HCL(boiling). Next step was to wash with water then in H2NO3(boiling). If you do this and there is ANY gold left, you run the risk of redissolving it back into solution. Once gold has been in either Nitric or hydrochloric acid, unless it is meticulously washed in water, you run the risk of losing it. It really takes A LOT of washing to be sure you will not redissolve it. Butcher, (or anyone else) please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## seanconnrey (May 1, 2013)

ok there is my suggetion 

u must take care all the base metal esspicially tin we c'ant use nitric acide because the formation of tin past 
that past make filtration very defuclt and whene dessolving gold the acid can't react all the powder of gold cause this
past covring it. thats number one 

second u can't us aqua regia derctly to the powder u risk to lose silver in sort of silver chloride that well be mixed with 
the carbon powder u must use ammonia if u want to recover it.

second whene dessolving in aqua regia u use just litle acide. to get ride of nitric acide i use several method
the best is to lite the solution evaporite in sun light that well be done by using a continer that have a big surface.
for example if u want to avaporate 1L of acide in sun light u use a continer tha have surface of 6000 cm2 and do not cover it
he will be evaporated in 3 days. u well end with some chloride this can dessolve in a mix solution of water+Hcl
and free from nitric acide. 

what d u tink


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## Captobvious (May 1, 2013)

seanconnrey said:


> what d u tink



What I think is that my brain hurts now, no offense but you have heard of spell-check, yes?


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## FrugalRefiner (May 1, 2013)

seanconnrey said:


> what d u tink


Since you're from Canada, I'm assuming English is not your first language. Having said that, you must understand how difficult it can be to understand something when you have to translate to your primary language. How do you think "what d u tink" translates to other forum members who try to understand what you've written?

I can understand some of the typographical errors, but text lingo like "u" to mean "you" is not acceptable on this forum.

Dave


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## seanconnrey (May 1, 2013)

my first language is french and i speak it very well
i thought i'm here for precious metal refining not learning english
language.
i'm living in canada but my origin is morocco
and he breaks my heart to heard this from you guys.


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## AndyWilliams (May 1, 2013)

seanconnrey said:


> my first language is french and i speak it very well
> i thought i'm here for precious metal refining not learning english
> language.
> i'm living in canada but my origin is morocco
> and he breaks my heart to heard this from you guys.



The guys have been understanding, to this point. But their patience will wear thin. You are here for the PM recovery and refining, but you will also be learning the English language. Chemistry being what it is, we all need to use the proper words to convey the proper situations and proper solutions. Also, text language is not tolerated, that's just a rule, and a relatively easy one at that.

You are here to learn, but you come not as a student. Instead, you have professed to teach, and though I'm still new at this, even I could see the holes in your processes.



seanconnrey said:


> first thing after what u did is :
> 
> -1-dessolve all base metal with HCL esspicialy Sn
> -2-dessolve all with AR with A smal cantit of hno3 tthis wil be done
> ...



HCL will not dissolve all base metals. For example, copper will still remain.
Using copper to get rid of excess HNO3 (Yes, even American English speakers are told about capitalization- http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=18135&p=183280&hilit=h202#p183280) is not the method anyone here would use because you are likely to cement your gold.
If you do cement that gold, you're likely to lose it when you filter, unless you save your filters.
Precipitate with what you will, I only use SMB, though the members here use other options too. 
I would take issue that you don't incinerate between the use of the acids. 
And there are many non-English speakers here, the effort is what matters. No one will cut slack if you don't make the attempt to improve your use of the language.

It is up to you, but you came here to learn. Showing the more skilled and knowledgeable members that you respect what they have to offer you, will go a long way.


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## butcher (May 2, 2013)

This forum is world wide, not all members speak English, and even those of us who do not always use it well, but all of us here on the forum do the best we can, we Know others will have trouble understanding us, and we also know other members are not so lucky as to have this written in their language, and must translate what they read, when we are lazy or do not correct our spelling not only will others have a hard time understanding they may also translate something that could get them hurt.

Too many people want to learn what we do, we do not have the time to spend with someone who is too lazy to learn, or who does not really care to learn, and this also means those who do not care to or refuse to improve their writing the best they can, there are good reasons for all of the rules of our forum, these rules help all of us here who wish to learn and protect this great opportunity to learn secrets hidden from man since man has worked with precious metals, we can have understanding for those who do their best, and if we see they are working to improve themselves their learning and skills then we try hard to help them, but if we see they really do not care, to learn or improve (not only their skill as a refiner) then it is hard if not impossible to help that person, actually this is a forum of not only refining but also a forum of communication, with others, so we also have to try to improve our communication skills, which for what we do it is especially important.

No body is picking on you, but you do need to improve your skills, as we all do, we need to do the best we can, also you think you know more than you do, on this forum, if I say something that I believe I know and it is not fact others here will let me know, that the way I think is not right, I may have read something someplace, or have a belief how things work, but if it is not fact, I will be told it is not fact. That way we keep the facts and accuracy of this forum as accurate as possible.
You learned things from someplace, which are not facts, or you have read a few things and believe you understand them, but I agree with others here, you do not know what you are talking about.

I say these things not to hurt you or your feelings, but I say them to try to be your friend and to be honest with you, you need to study and learn before you try to teach, you need to do your best with your communication skills, you need to just do your best.

I would rather help someone who was having a hard time understanding, but was working hard and doing his best, no matter how bad his skills, than I would try to help someone who did not care enough to do his best, and already thought he knew everything.

Too many people want to learn for us to waste our time with those who do not really care to learn.
And we also come here to learn from others, this stuff is hard enough to understand without having to try and understand what someone saying, when they are not even attempting to say it in a way, which we can read it.

Welcome to the forum just do your best, use spell check, and I hope we both can learn something from each other.


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## kjavanb123 (May 3, 2013)

Hi

Back to the topic, first dissolving tin and iron with hot hcl, then filter well, next add hcl and 3% h2o2 plus oxygen and agitation to dissolve copper, then rinse filter, followed by AR to dissolve gold, filter, drop gold with SMB. Please advise.

Regards
Kevin


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