# Why cant someone just give me a straight up answer!



## Irishpride (Nov 23, 2012)

This Forum is awesome and teaches you alot!! But what i hate!!! is when someone just asks a simple question and everyone just says.. Well go read Hokes.. Or they say well everything you said has been answered over 100 times on this site lol like really? why cant you just help someone and answer them? lol dont have to be a dick and act all smart just to make that person feel stupid pretty messed up... This Forum site is awesome but alot of you guys are annoying when someone really needs help.. SOOOOOOO been reading all day and night on process's and techniques and ways to refine the gold from cell phone parts and gold fingers, i have some of the chemicals down and the melting part down, just would like to know the basic beginner step by step. Going from scrap gold from computer and cell phone parts to gold powder  and the use and just the step by step of the chemicals! it would be greatly appreciated and YES ive been reading the Hokes book lol


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## jimdoc (Nov 23, 2012)

It is all here on the forum, try the search button. Keep up your attitude and you will be looking for another place to learn.

Jim


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## element47.5 (Nov 24, 2012)

The reasons are many. There are an infinite number of so-called simple questions, but the asking of most of those questions inherently reveals that the asker of those questions is not clear on what it is they are asking. And, if the asker of the question is not clear on what they are asking, it generally means (or, we take it to mean) that the asker does not know about several other coherent areas, such as required safety gear, fume handling, and pitfalls. 

Nobody on this forum is eager to tell someone to "pour this into that" when we do not know that the asker understands that dangerous, potentially FATAL fumes could be released. Nobody on this forum wants to hear the reply "I am typing this with the aid of my new helper because the stuff you told me to pour into the beaker turned out to be much more concentrated than I was led to believe and the splashback destroyed my eyes and I am now legally blind." Or, "thank heavens for my medical insurance, otherwise the burns I have suffered would force me to kill my parents and sell their home to pay for the medical bills." 

Get the picture? 

The metals we are talking about have infinite patience. They will wait 500 years while you and your great-great-great grandchildren figure out how to work the specified procedures in a way that does not destroy your life or your eyesight. On the other hand, if you blind yourself or inflict lung edema and drop over dead, then you won't have those great-great grandchildren to refine your $37 worth of gold. 

"When somebody really needs help" is when they have started without a very clear, assiduously laid out procedure map which implies an understanding of what is supposed to happen first, second, third, and fourth and fifth. One who understands and has mentally done the procedures should have only very, very specific questions that NOBODY has any problems answering. It is when we get this "screw the reading, lay it out for me step by step" which has been done many, many times on this forum that resistance arises. You shouldn't be asking "lay it out for me step by step". You should be asking "after I have allowed the solution to sit for X hours and decanted the excess acid and washed the remains three times in distilled water, I am unclear why I need at that point to add hydrochloric acid". Can anyone explain why?


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## Smack (Nov 24, 2012)

Wish I could copy and paste all the pertinent topics for ya. I've been on here over a year and I'm still reading, see if you can catch me.


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## Irishpride (Nov 24, 2012)

lol yea


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## mjgraham (Nov 24, 2012)

I do agree the search is a little annoying to use sometimes, what I found best was to go in the topic your interested in and start at the oldest posts, when everything was new to the people here, it takes a long time to read all this stuff. I have found my biggest problem is being in a hurry, makes mistakes, messes and problems. Just the other day I was using nitric acid for one of the first times, and I had read that you need to watch out when adding it, I was ready , careful and had all my saftey gear on, first drop in made a volcano, had to run, good thing I was outside. Everyone just wants you to read so you can understand better, mostly the dangers of it. But I am no expert but I read for a good month on here before I started with my batches of fingers, and it went OK. Here my first run might help a little.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=14520


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## nickvc (Nov 24, 2012)

I have made this or similar statements many times before but will do so again.

This forum is the only resource worth a dime, it's members are some of the best informed and knowlegable people in the world when it comes to refining precious metals, it's free and access is easy for most people anywhere in the world, many of the active members do refine for their living and most have learnt much from here if not all. No one, no one is paid on the forum to give advice, if you want a consultant they are available but it will cost you a lot of money to learn all you need to know, how deep are your pockets? Most members are busy and if you get a response be grateful because they took the time to reply even if you don't like the answer, this is especially true to the I want a step by step method to process my material, no disrespect but why should they tell you what they had to take time to study and learn and to be constantly asked questions that have been answered ad infinitum about the whole process.

Read Hoke, study what you need to know and ask questions if you don't understand a point, after trying to find the answers by using the search function,if your dont show willing to do the necessary research don't expect much help, no one owes you or anyone else help or advice unless you have paid for it. Should you not wish to read then sell your values to those who have and know how to recover and refine them.


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## NoIdea (Nov 24, 2012)

for whats it worth, i have been here for what seems like forever and it still seems like it was yesterday, what i choose to take on board does not nessecarilty meets my requirements at that time, it's a case of remembering what i have experienced and read and put it into practice where it is required, which does not really mean i have taken on board what i have read, that takes someonething rather special. i have tried this and that, butt really it depends on what you want, and that which fits your requirements, in otherwords read, follow what your experiancent members have to say, remember, and see how it fits...........basics will allways prevail. 

Deano's words of wisdom 8)


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## NobleMetalWorks (Nov 24, 2012)

Irishpride said:


> This Forum is awesome and teaches you alot!! But what i hate!!! is when someone just asks a simple question and everyone just says.. Well go read Hokes.. Or they say well everything you said has been answered over 100 times on this site lol like really? why cant you just help someone and answer them? lol dont have to be a dick and act all smart just to make that person feel stupid pretty messed up... This Forum site is awesome but alot of you guys are annoying when someone really needs help.. SOOOOOOO been reading all day and night on process's and techniques and ways to refine the gold from cell phone parts and gold fingers, i have some of the chemicals down and the melting part down, just would like to know the basic beginner step by step. Going from scrap gold from computer and cell phone parts to gold powder  and the use and just the step by step of the chemicals! it would be greatly appreciated and YES ive been reading the Hokes book lol



I become incensed when I see the sense of entitlement in some people. Even though you have 3 posts, you act as if you have been here awhile. I have to wonder if you have been here previously, were banned, and came back. 

In any case, if you haven't read Hoke, how do you expect to understand the language used to describe what we do? How can you effectively ask a question in a way that someone else would understand, and be able to give you advice?

If you are looking for specific processes, check under that section. If you are finding the forum search too difficult to use, you can enter a search string in google with Gold Refining Forum as part of it, and do a fairly good job of targeting the information you are looking for.

To assume that people are on this forum, waiting, at your beck and call to give you instructions that have been posted, in many cases numerous times. You sound extremely impatient to me, the type of person who gets a bunch of scrap that looks like it has gold in it, and wants to start right now, today, refining it. That's not how this works, not by a long shot. If you have no experience you need to take it very slow so that you don't put your life in danger. I am talking about the potential to kill yourself. For example, do you know why you do not pour water into acid? If you made that one single mistake, with the wrong type of acid, you could seriously harm yourself, blind yourself, or worse.

Personally I would feel very sketchy about giving advice to anyone who could then take it and harm themselves or others around them. The gases that are produced when metal is dissolved in Aqua Regia alone could kill you or those people/animals in the immediate area. Do you honestly think it would be responsible for anyone to give you instructions or advice? You could be a kid, you sound like you are young to me, your impatience gives it away. It's great you have that type of enthusiasm, but truly, you need to prepare yourself before you just jump right in. If you do not you will very likely make a mistake that you can never take back.

You also might want to think about not using exploitatives, it's frowned upon here. This is a professional forum and although many of us curse like sailors in real life, that type of language does nothing to advance the quality of information on this site. It really demeans all the people who have posted their experience and knowledge in such a way that people like you can find, read and apply it. Thinking about what you write, and how it will sound to others on this site might prevent you from being banned.

And please, tone down the sense of entitlement, it's insulting.

Scott


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## kurt (Nov 24, 2012)

irishpride

If you REALLY want to LEARN the process - you WILL do the RESEARCH (like the rest of us have done)

Then when you have a problem you can ask the questions (like the rest of us do) & your question wont be stupid ones that waist our time

Or you can hire someone to come & hold your hand & teach you (I will do that for $80 an hour - if you live close to me - other wise its $80 an hour plus expenses)

Kurt


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## Geo (Nov 24, 2012)

i have read miss Hoke's book through completely once and many parts of it several times and i still have to reference it often. my advise to you (as a beginner) is to pick the simplest and easiest process first to learn (such as finger foils in AP) and study that and only that until you master the process. then move on to something else (perhaps dissolving your foils). the main thing here is, try not to learn all the processes at once or you will wind up burned out and chucking it all in the garbage.one thing at a time until you master that and move to another. if you are a visual learner, try Lazersteve's website at http://www.goldrecovery.us and watch his free videos on the subject of PCI fingers in AP. use the username :gold and the password :goldm1ner* to log in.


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 24, 2012)

Irishpride said:


> This Forum is awesome and teaches you alot!! But what i hate!!! is when someone just asks a simple question and everyone just says.. Well go read Hokes.. Or they say well everything you said has been answered over 100 times on this site lol like really? why cant you just help someone and answer them? lol dont have to be a dick and act all smart just to make that person feel stupid pretty messed up... This Forum site is awesome but alot of you guys are annoying when someone really needs help.. SOOOOOOO been reading all day and night on process's and techniques and ways to refine the gold from cell phone parts and gold fingers, i have some of the chemicals down and the melting part down, just would like to know the basic beginner step by step. Going from scrap gold from computer and cell phone parts to gold powder  and the use and just the step by step of the chemicals! it would be greatly appreciated and YES ive been reading the Hokes book lol


It's not a simple question and it can't be answered simply. If you want to do fingers with acid/peroxide, which is the most common method on the forum, you can wade through these posts to start. 
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=fingers+acid+peroxide&terms=all&author=&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

Lazersteve introduced this method to the forum. Here are some of his posts on the subject.
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=acid+peroxide&terms=all&author=lazersteve&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

Here's his guided tour for newbies.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873

And here's his website that has his free instructional videos and other info. To enter his site, the username is gold and the password is goldm1ner* Note the number 1 in miner.
http://goldrecovery.us

When you finish all of this, you will have answered most all of your questions. You can then ask us SPECIFIC questions about SPECIFIC things you don't understand.


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## GotTheBug (Nov 24, 2012)

Irishpride,

I'm new here as well, and I just wanted to say the folks on this forum are awesome. If you're not getting a question answered directly, it's simply because we care, and would prefer you be able to enjoy your first button visually, to be able to feel it without destroyed nerve endings in your fingers. Get the idea? The knowledge on this forum is absolutely amazing, and I promise you'll be learning something new almost daily several years from now.

Like the song says, "One of God's greatest gifts is an unanswered prayer."

Just my .02

Paul.


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## goldenchild (Nov 24, 2012)

goldsilverpro said:


> It's not a simple question and it can't be answered simply. If you want to do fingers with acid/peroxide, which is the most common method on the forum, you can wade through these posts to start.
> http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=fingers+acid+peroxide&terms=all&author=&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
> 
> Lazersteve introduced this method to the forum. Here are some of his posts on the subject.
> ...



IrishPride,

Imagine how annoying it would be to have to write up a post like the one above every time someone came on here demanding all the answers. Those that come demanding all the answers without lifting a finger to do some research are frowned upon by most on this forum. This is why you're not getting your 1.2.3. a,b,c answers. You will find that even the post GSP offered is very generous for someone who did no reading to help themselves. I'm surprised you didn't get banned right off top from your post and wish you good luck in your research.


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## butcher (Nov 24, 2012)

Irishpride wrote:

Yes iam a newbie!!! And can someone please tell me the chemicals I need and the best and safest process. Thanks!!

Butcher Attemt to help wrote:

Chemicals for what?

What are you doing or making?

HCl + NaOH --> NaCl + H2O
If you need chemicals to make sodium chloride NaCl (table salt) mix equal molars of Hydrochloric acid HCl and Sodium Hydroxide NaOH (lye or caustic soda).

Joking aside,

You are going to find the chemistry involved is not as easy as you think it is now, there are many procedures you will need to learn and understand, I could write a two page list of chemicals we use, but what good would that do you at this point, you do not know what to do with them, or how to dispose of the toxic waste you would generate with them, you would not know what reactions created deadly gases and be able to protect yourself from them.

It is not real hard but it will take a lot of work to learn.

Download Hoke's book and study it, this gives you a basic understanding.
Study the forum and choose a process learn the procedures involved in that process like mechanical separation and then base metal removal process, then the refining process, memory fingers is a great learning tool easiest and it can give you materials to practice with Hoke's experiments to get acquainted, and learn the testing procedures for metals in solution. 

Read the safety thread and pay close attention to the one dealing with waste, and protecting yourself from the fumes (fume hoods).

There are tons more like welcome to new members, and the general reaction list, and the guide to the forum; these are extremely helpful to help you get started.

That is just the beginning of the study's you will need, and I do not want to overwhelm you with home work at this point, but after you have studied this you will only be scratching the surface of valuable information here on the forum.

This is not a quick and easy thing you are wanting to learn, it takes time and patience, and a whole lot of work, the work is fun and rewarding and so is all of the work when one day you finally melt that small gold button of gold you refined and earn with your labor.

Members here are very helpful and will help when you run into a brick wall with your study.

Welcome to the forum I look forward to watching you become a refiner of precious metals


Irishpride, I felt I was helping you, (and took time out of my day to help you) giving you the best advice I could, but it seems you cannot see how to use this advice to your advantage, instead of profiting from good advice you are taking offence, doing this can only make it harder for you to learn.

Like I said this forum will help you learn, if you really want to, there is more than you think to this, getting upset and throwing a fit will not help you get what you want, or the answers you want to hear, or get you more help here on the forum, it will also not help you to learn to recover and refine precious metals.

I will help you learn the best I can, and so will the other forum members, several of which are professionals (you are lucky man to have these guy’s help you), so you have a great opportunity here to become skilled in a very useful art or science, should you choose to work for it, not many people in history have been given this opportunity, and would have gladly done work as simple as reading to profit from it.

If this is something you wish to learn do not let your pride keep you from it.

If this is what you truly wish to spend your time learning recovery, refining and the chemistry involved with these precious metals (which it will take time to learn) take the advice given and read Hoke's and study, use your best manners on the forum, and try the advice given and see if it will work's before complaining it is not what you wished to hear (that to me sounds so childish).

There are no easy step-by-step methods when you begin study inorganic chemistry, the recovery and refining of precious metals, but there are steps to take to begin learning, and we have given you those steps.


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 24, 2012)

Here's another list using Google site search and "ap" fingers as keywords. Three times the results.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22ap%22+fingers+site:goldrefiningforum.com&oq=%22ap%22+fingers+site:goldrefiningforum.com&gs_l=hp.3...10589.41076.1.41643.39.39.0.0.0.0.121.3627.31j8.39.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.dcwVxC6HpqM&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=9c1c7a74a90eb2f8&bpcl=38897761&biw=1138&bih=468


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## Geo (Nov 25, 2012)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=AP+and+finger+foils


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## kobus (Nov 26, 2012)

irishpride

I am new as wel i must admit it is some times annoying but cope with it i have read many post that some one asked a question that was not answered directly but they got the answer in more ways than one i like this forum and the people on it .there is no other forum in the world that have this much info on recovering and refining for free :shock: :shock: :shock: 

kobus


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## Harold_V (Nov 27, 2012)

Irishpride said:


> This Forum is awesome and teaches you alot!! But what i hate!!! is when someone just asks a simple question and everyone just says.. Well go read Hokes.. Or they say well everything you said has been answered over 100 times on this site lol like really? why cant you just help someone and answer them? lol dont have to be a dick and act all smart just to make that person feel stupid pretty messed up... This Forum site is awesome but alot of you guys are annoying when someone really needs help.. SOOOOOOO been reading all day and night on process's and techniques and ways to refine the gold from cell phone parts and gold fingers, i have some of the chemicals down and the melting part down, just would like to know the basic beginner step by step. Going from scrap gold from computer and cell phone parts to gold powder  and the use and just the step by step of the chemicals! it would be greatly appreciated and YES ive been reading the Hokes book lol


Tell you what, sunshine. 

I do not suffer fools gladly, as you'll come to understand if you are around long enough. 

You post like that again and I'll see to it you can't post, full stop. 

We do not cater to those with an entitlement attitude, nor are they welcome here.

I do not take kindly to rudeness, and I'm damned well short of patience with people who can't address others with respect. When you posted that a reader is a "dick", you may just as well have called me out personally. You might understand that, right now, I'm not real fond of you being here. 

I'm going to give you the advice you need--not what you hope to see. Read Hoke's book. Read it again. Read it until you understand what she teaches. Do not ask question until you have, and do. 

I spend very little of my time on this board of late, as I'm busy and have bigger fish to fry. However, I'm going to keep watch on this thread, waiting to see your (sincere) public apology. Think this over carefully, and choose your words wisely, as I have no patience with those with a smart mouth. 

No apology? 

Been nice knowing you. 

Harold


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## hfywc (Nov 27, 2012)

go check out lazersteve's website...he has tons of videos generously available to those who wish to learn. that's how i started.


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## hfywc (Nov 27, 2012)

and please don't use the Lord's name in vain. someone delete that please.

Done. Each post must be addressed, which I will do. 

Harold


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## NobleMetalWorks (Nov 27, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> Tell you what, sunshine.



I cannot help thinking about that being said by Kris Kristofferson in the movie "Blade". I just about choked on my tongue laughing so hard.

Scott


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## Noxx (Nov 27, 2012)

*Edited title


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## Captobvious (Nov 28, 2012)

He reminds me a lot of a buddy of mine here in town that was originally going in with me on this whole adventure in gold extraction.

Me: You need to go read Hokes and then go here, here, here, and here, and learn the processes with me

Him: Where do I buy the chemicals!??! TONIGHT WE DISSOLVE!!!!

Me: No...

So basically my little red hen friend of mine has the patience levels that are about on par with that of a field mouse :wink: Not exactly the kind of person you want working with these chemicals eh?


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## jimdoc (Nov 28, 2012)

I don't think he will be back.


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## Harold_V (Nov 28, 2012)

jimdoc said:


> I don't think he will be back.


Nor do I, but to ensure he doesn't, I'm banning him. It's obvious this isn't important to him, or he'd have been reading since he last posted. He left the board and has never returned. I don't want him back here creating waves, as they are very distracting. 

Harold


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## Wallybankes (Nov 29, 2012)

Sometimes I really like cell phones, and change it often.Last year i got a LG Chocolate one, but at my angry moment i throw it away, so it died! And this year i bought this kind of cell phone with cheap price, but i am afraid of his fate then. I hate the noises of irrelevant calls,you know sometimes i just want to be alone, that is enough, anyone knows how can i do? I have got a link disabled in Google, but I heve no idea of it, ask some profession for help!

They never learn. This guy has been banned for spamming.

Harold


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## hfywc (Dec 2, 2012)

thanks Noxx and Harold!


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## mrsanders02 (Feb 14, 2013)

I have been here for a couple months, lurked for a couple more. I find the people here to be the very knowledgeable and EXTREMELY helpful. Not to mention caring in regards to the safety of all involved. I have been doing the reading and some test tube level experiments to gain some understanding and I am amazed at the complexity and variety of results even at that level. I am even more amazed at the attitude of some who post here wanting ALL the answers with out doing any of the work. You guys show a great deal of patience, I appreciate the time you put in and hope to someday be able to contribute as well. Thanks. Peace.


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## Palladium (Feb 14, 2013)

mrsanders02 said:


> I have been here for a couple months, lurked for a couple more. I find the people here to be the very knowledgeable and EXTREMELY helpful. Not to mention caring in regards to the safety of all involved. I have been doing the reading and some test tube level experiments to gain some understanding and I am amazed at the complexity and variety of results even at that level. I am even more amazed at the attitude of some who post here wanting ALL the answers with out doing any of the work. You guys show a great deal of patience, I appreciate the time you put in and hope to someday be able to contribute as well. Thanks. Peace.



Glad to have you sir!


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## butcher (Feb 15, 2013)

mrsanders02, 
With your approach to learning this, I am sure I will be learning from you very soon.
Welcome to the best place to share and learn about this science.


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