# problem with cpu's / weired reaction ????????



## donald236 (Jun 15, 2008)

hey guys im trying to run some cpu's and just now i put them in some a/p 
and something very weired just happened . and i need to know what the ---------- i did wrong . that thing boiled over , i mean it got so hot that it melted my bucket . and all i did is put a 2:1 ratio . so what happen .
any suggestions :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


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## SapunovDmitry (Jun 15, 2008)

Maybe concentrated peroxide?
Was it 28% or dilluted peroxide?


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## donald236 (Jun 15, 2008)

its just regular peroxide 3%


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## SapunovDmitry (Jun 15, 2008)

Was it the same bucket that you usually use for AP?


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## donald236 (Jun 15, 2008)

yes, its the same one ive always used since ive started refining


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## OMG (Jun 15, 2008)

Cold Fusion??? 
jk
Think back. Something MUST have changed (other than the e-scrap).
Just for curiosity, start with a fresh bucket and try the well washed cpu's again. Maybe theres something different about them.
I haven't heard of a reaction like that using AP.
You didn't use sulfuric acid instead of HCl did you?? :shock:


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## Rag and Bone (Jun 15, 2008)

What kind of cpu's?


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## donald236 (Jun 15, 2008)

all types


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## donald236 (Jun 15, 2008)

no just muriatic acid & peroxide 3%. im going to try washing them and then see what happens then i'll update you guys later on today.


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## lazersteve (Jun 15, 2008)

Don,

Was there any stray aluminum on the cpus? Aluminum and HCl produces a violent reaction with foaming and heat. Several cpus have an aluminum heat conductor in between the Aluminum heat sink and the cpu. This looks like a thin square of foil. Any other sources of aluminum could have the same affect.

Steve


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## Irons (Jun 15, 2008)

Don't add all of the peroxide at once.


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## Rag and Bone (Jun 15, 2008)

I'll bet it was some Pentium w/mmx ("pentium fiber") that set it off.


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## donald236 (Jun 15, 2008)

there was one very small stray piece of aluminum that i did not see when i put them in. it was the same color as the cpu its self . hey lesson very well learned


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## Buzz (Jun 15, 2008)

I'm with Rag and Bone on this.

My first batch of fibre Cpus (approx 30) went into a bath of Nitric to dissolve any silver holding the pins on.

Within minutes i had a reaction that had fumes and heat well beyond anything i'd experienced before. Very scary :shock: 

I left it alone and when things had settled down, the cpu's had all melted into a giant blob of something.

Won't be doing that again in a hurry!

Buzz


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## donald236 (Jun 15, 2008)

hey buzz 
man i hear ya loud and clear , brother i was scared when i walked in and saw this thing boiling, it looked like a volcano had erupted ( in a small sense of course) . and my poor bucket looks like you set it in a fire , it melted that joker . well like i said lesson learned, and well learned.


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## synthetiklone (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi. 

Did you have anything left over?

I just had the same thing happen to me last night, but in AR, with broken up bits of fiber pentiums (nickel lid NOT included in mix).

It was in a very large 1000ml glass beaker, and almost went over the rim, actually touched the underside of the watch-glass lid! and just seemed to simmer there.

I tipped off the liquid this evening, rinsed all the old fiber cpu's, which have been completely stripped of gold and other metals, some copper still left.

Now I have a beaker full of thick murky green brown goop, with possible bits of fine gold floating in the mix. I wonder what it is. 
I added a small amount of urea, very little fizz.

Does anyone have any idea on what I should do with this to further process?

I'm thinking of adding SMB, dropping everything till neg stanous test, and re-doing result in AR.

thanks
SK


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## Harold_V (Jul 5, 2008)

From the description, I suspect you dissolved some iron in the mix. 

Assuming you have metal left over, it's unlikely you have any gold in solution, but test with stannous chloride to insure that you don't have. If not, here's a couple things to think about.

You can pursue a couple different avenues. Incinerate and then HCl to remove the iron. Perhaps a boil with sulfuric (dilute) for the same purpose, but without incineration. I'd suggest you eliminate as much of the base metal solution as is possible before adding any sulfuric. 

If you're sure the nitric has been consumed, you likely won't need the incineration, but you risk dissolving some of the gold if some remains. 

If it was mine, and I had my old setup, I'd incinerate, screen, boil in dilute HCl, incinerate, screen, boil in dilute nitric, and be free of virtually all the base metal contamination. There is no right or wrong way. 

Harold


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## synthetiklone (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi again Harold, thanks for that.

I had a feeling I was jumping the gun a bit using AR to dissolve all first, then precip, then re-refine. I think I'll use nitric first next batch to remove all base first. In the mix is metals from 30 or so fiber pentium cpus, and about 10 other odd fiber cpu's. maybe some iron did get in the mix(?)

When you say incinerate, do you mean simply extended boil, or evaporate the liquid, and physically flame incinerate? I'm presuming the latter, but I would be worried if I had AuCl in liquid form, and dried it out to powder(?) - like Ive heard not to let the liquid Au completly dry up, or it's lost for good.

Anyway..

The brown murk is settling over the last day or so, leaving dark green translucent liquid above it. So far 200mls brown murk on bottom and 800 mls green liquid above.

There was only very little copper traces, and bits of etched pins left on the fiber cpu's. All the gold has been eaten off, whether its in solution, or particles in the brown crud, I dont know.

I tested with stannous, and got a mild purple splotch. Does stannous still test positive if the nitric is all used up? I have been wondering this for awhile now.

I might syphon off the top green layer, and see if I can SMB drop anything, or all. I am sure Im missing something here though. Like If there is copper and gold, and I precipitate with SMB, does the copper drop first, or the gold? In any case, I will be redoing as you say to remove base metals, then final AR, SMB precip and melt.

Thanks again

SK


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## Harold_V (Jul 5, 2008)

synthetiklone said:


> I had a feeling I was jumping the gun a bit using AR to dissolve all first, then precip, then re-refine.


Please accept the following comment in the spirit in which it is offered:

Only a complete moron will attempt recovering gold by dissolving everything in one mix. 

I have stressed, time and again, that AR is not a recovery procedure, with a few exceptions. As long as it is used for recovery, you can expect no end to the problems that accompany the refusal to follow better practice. That's one of the reasons I keep telling readers to get a copy of Hoke. When you start to understand that working with dirty solutions pretty much guarantees a bad result, and dissolving everything in one operation saves nothing------there are no benefits-----everything starts to make more sense. Hoke helps the newbie understand that. 



> I think I'll use nitric first next batch to remove all base first. In the mix is metals from 30 or so fiber pentium cpus, and about 10 other odd fiber cpu's. maybe some iron did get in the mix(?)


It may have been in the pins on the CPU's, or other solid state devices. If so, that's a case where they may have been processed better by a different method (stripped chemically), but if you don't have that option, then you must use good sense and permit the AR that you use to dissolve incompletely, allowing the remaining base metals to precipitate the gold so it is now in the form of fine particles in the solution. You would then add some HCl to the mix, to insure that anything that is soluble in the solution (iron, for example) would stay in solution. You may find that the addition of HCl to your mix may well put back in solution the layer of brown crud you see now. It's likely just iron----perhaps laced with values. If you do this while it's still combined with the solids that have not dissolved, you may be pleasantly surprised to find the solution will test barren when the process is finished. The brown layer, hopefully, will also be gone, having been dissolved by the addition of HCl. That's the objective. If that be the case, decant when everything has settled well, then attack the solids once again, this time only with HCl and (tap) water. Could be you'll eliminate the balance of base metals. Worth a try, and you can avoid the incineration process in that case. 



> When you say incinerate, do you mean simply extended boil, or evaporate the liquid, and physically flame incinerate?


When I say incinerate, I NEVER allude to boiling. I mean incinerate (read Hoke). It's easy to do, but I'm not pleased to read the general comments I see about home built fume hoods. Virtually no one is building a hood that will serve well. Seems that everyone is concentrating on fumes alone, which is much like washing half the car. Incineration should be very much a part of every process, assuming you'd like to make things work smoothly. 



> I'm presuming the latter, but I would be worried if I had AuCl in liquid form, and dried it out to powder(?) - like Ive heard not to let the liquid Au completly dry up, or it's lost for good.


Can you tell me where you heard that? It's total nonsense. Do yourself a favor and burn a piece of paper that has been in contact with gold chloride. What it does is reduce the gold to the elemental state. That's how I processed all my filters, which I did just before I sold my refining business. I recovered roughly 200 troy ounces of gold in the process, having stored filters and other waste materials for 20 years, in the form of incinerated materials. If I lost gold, I hate to think how much!

There's a common problem with refining ------way too many morons are handing out useless advice-----none of which is even close to being factual. If you'd read Hoke, you'd get a better understanding of what works, and why. Even on this forum, there are contributors that are up in the night----you must have enough experience to understand that some of their ideas are nothing short of hair-brained-----and likely yield poor, if any, results. I hesitate to make mention which ones----I don't choose to pick on anyone. Read Hoke, which will help you sort reality from fairytales. 



> The brown murk is settling over the last day or so, leaving dark green translucent liquid above it. So far 200mls brown murk on bottom and 800 mls green liquid above.
> 
> There was only very little copper traces, and bits of etched pins left on the fiber cpu's. All the gold has been eaten off, whether its in solution, or particles in the brown crud, I dont know.


As I suggested, above, your gold is likely distributed within that layer at the bottom, along with the other solids. Try the HCl treatment, directly, as above, and see what happens. Do NOT remove anything from the container at this point----the damage is done, but you can take advantage of the remaining base metals to insure that you precipitate any traces of values. 

Do you expect you may have any silver present?



> I tested with stannous, and got a mild purple splotch. Does stannous still test positive if the nitric is all used up? I have been wondering this for awhile now.


Yes, stannous will still test in the presence of nitric, and will even do so in the presence of AR----although in that case, it isn't uncommon to get a poor reaction, which will re-dissolve almost instantly. The tests are best performed in solutions that don't have excessive acids, but work in most conditions. It's just a matter of degree. Experience will be a good teacher in that regard. 



> I might syphon off the top green layer, and see if I can SMB drop anything, or all. I am sure Im missing something here though.


Try what I suggested above, with HCl, before anything else. That may well cure all the problems. 



> Like If there is copper and gold, and I precipitate with SMB, does the copper drop first, or the gold?


SMB is used because it is _selective_ in that it precipitates only gold. The problem is, when you precipitate from a filthy solution (which you have), drag-down becomes a serious concern. Remember the thing Steve likes to say-----garbage in-----garbage out. It's true (read Hoke). 

If your choice of precipitant includes recovering copper, you are not refining, you are recovering. There is a big difference. When you process, your ultimate goal is to precipitate each element, one at a time, hopefully without dragging down any others, or any base metals. Copper should NEVER be precipitated unless you want to use it as a collector in a furnace operation. I doubt that will be a concern for you. 



> In any case, I will be redoing as you say to remove base metals, then final AR, SMB precip and melt.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> SK


Welcome. 

Hope some of this will be useful to you. Most importantly, I hope you have learned something about not dissolving base metals with values. It's a stupid idea unless you intend to capitalize on the base metals to act as a recovery process. There are times when you can use that to advantage, but it is best avoided when you have other options. 

Keep us posted on the progress you achieve. 

Harold


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## synthetiklone (Jul 7, 2008)

Hi, wow, hey, thanks for your reply and details.. excellent advice.

Just as a quick reply. I have done some experimenting as you have mentioned Harold, and have had a bit of a "play" with chemicals HCl / urea & SMB.

The results have been fascinating, and very interesting. I dont mind messing up too much here, as gaining some experience with this first fiber cpu mess is good for me. I have some easier ceramics to work with next.

Anyway, I dont know if silver is in these fiber cpu's, maybe - probably.

What I have now after mild boiling, add HCl, add urea, add SMB, in various stages, and quantities to different beaker samples. 3 in all.

I have dropped & seperated decanted, and now have a beaker with alot of white powder, slightly yellow tint settled at bottom. When it had the green liquid with it, a stannous test revealed an orange colour! (???) will look this up. I have the green liquid seperate from this powder now.

Another beaker has green liquid with grey powder dropped, and overnight a light settling of white powder on surface. There is visable gold flakes mixed in. (stannous tests no colour change)

Another beaker has murky brown liquid, with grey/black powder settled, and visable gold flakes in it. Stannous tests neg (just brown from the liquid)

The reason I havent evaporated all and incinerated yet is that it is bucketing down with heavy rain here in NZ at mo (mid winter), so no working outside with fumes, and secondly it gives me a chance to waste some chems, and have an experiment while I can. This is just way to interesting, and I cant wait to figure out what I have done!  heh.

As I said, Ive learnt a lesson, and have 20L fresh new nitric arrived yesterday, and now have part of my bigger batch of ceramic cpu's in a 50/50 mix now. I have a feeling I will have a lovely time seperating the gold foils/flakes from all the ceramic bits once the base metals have dissolved in the nitric. As I remember picking out foils from partly digested lids many weeks ago, when I had limited supply of nitric.

must dash

SK.


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## synthetiklone (Jul 13, 2008)

Well, I have been working on all my spare processors over the last few days, and have hopefully extracted everything of value.

I ran some odd white cpu's through AR,dissolved and precipitated the gold contect ok. While I was pouring the remaining used AR (urea reduced) into a temp stock pot with some other previous AR mixes, I noticed a bubbling reaction, and white clumps forming, they settled on the bottom, and Ive since rinsed and allowed the white precipitate to setle after a ash. I left this in the sunlight for a fewminutes, and the powder on the side turned a blueish colour.

Is this silver?

Also, the white remains of the ceramic chips after evaporation drying have yielded a blue tint around the contacts, and old surface through holes.
I kept a bottle of the ex AR from this, and noted it is also transparent dark blue.

I did a stannous test on it, and it goes on the paper light blue, and with the stannous applied, it goes very sky blue colour.

Anyone know what a blue stannous test means?


I have beenmainly looking for gold, and have tested with stannous on all results, some with very odd colours, browns, and shiny gold yellows, which fade after some minutes.
I have probably got some very interesting metals being discarded in this lot, but as I have no experience with anything other than gold, I am wondering if I should persue them, or just let it go.
I wont get anohter chance to continue with this project as source material is in very limited supply, but it is so darn interesting, and possibly rewarding, that if I didnt already have a full time job, this would be something worth persuing.

many thanks if you can answer my blue question, and now that I have some possibly silver (200mls in bottom of beaker), I am going to see if I can return it to elemental.

Cheers
SK


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## lazersteve (Jul 13, 2008)

SK,

The light sensitive, white clumpy stuff is silver chloride. Filter it off and handle it as shown on my website videos. It most likely dropped out of the stock pot due to dissolved chlorides in the stock pot. The tinted powder is typically purple to light gray after exposure to light.

The blue stannous test is most likely a very weak gold reaction. It almost looks gray. If that's confirmed not to be the case, then check your stannous it may be getting weak. Try it on a known gold solution that is very diluted and see if you get the same results.

Orange is a sign of Pd if it turns blue-green after 1 minute or so. If it stays orange or darkens to brown it's Pt.

Steve


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## pi2008_com (Jul 13, 2008)

I am just looking and learning - so was this done over heat? or just AP? What kind of burner do you get to do this under heat - dosent the bucket melt? Just learning - Thanks.


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## synthetiklone (Jul 14, 2008)

Hi,
Thanks LS, I'm trialling an aluminium precipitation drop with the blue liquid, and then redo the resulting sludge in the bottom. Will make some fresh stannous, and continue testing before I discard anything.
The blue colour is a brilliant metallic blue, very odd, never seen it before, and after the white ceramics dried somewhat, they have a heavy tint of blue around the grey traces. I will take and post some photos if anyone is interested.

James:

I dont heat AR, it seems to heat itself well enough to leave alone, lots of fumes - beware!
However, when I heat up nitric in a plastic bucket, I do it in a larger stainless pot one-third full of water, so the water simmers (mild heat and be ready to turn heat OFF), and transfers heat to the bucket. I only have one-tenth of the bucket with nitric in it, just covering the cpu's - no sense in asking for trouble if it over-reacts.
If nitric is heated too much, you will find a point where it self reacts (exothermic) and you can get a runaway reaction. This emits a huge amount of dark red Nox fumes, and can bubble so much you may end up loosing the lot over the top of the vessel.
I used a bucket in this case because my largest beaker is only 1000mls, and I had too many cpu's. As it was, I still split them into two lots for the bucket.
Things do get hot even in the plastic bucket, and you will find hot splatters of small bits stuck to the lower walls of the bucket. Use a glass lid, like an old microwave base plate, preferably slightly concave, so indent allows evaporated/splashed nitric to drip back into the bucket, and not flow down the outside!

Anyway, enough chit-chat.. be careful out there, take no risks, use gloves, and eye protection, and a secure place to work with no pet or child access. Also remember the fumes if they settle on precious tools, furniture, or fittings in workshop and outside, they WILL corrode, and ruin everything.. especially aluminium, nickel, chrome and iron steel.

SK over & out.


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