# Scrap "gold" bar



## mitchellnz (May 8, 2019)

Hi All

I am new to this board and was hoping for some advice. My name is Mitchell and I am from New Zealand.
I purchased a "gold bar" made from CPU connector pins and RAM connectors. I believe most of the bar would be copper and nickel.


What is the easiest way to test and refine. As I have never done any refining before I am a bit lost. I was thinking of turning it to filings and dissolving all the base metals with acid and hoping anything left would be gold. Is this naive and have I just bought magic beans? 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am finding advice hard to get because no normal person would melt PC scrap together.

Cheers 
Mitch


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## niks neims (May 8, 2019)

Hi Mitchell

If you bought it on e-bay you probably got got....

Why would you even think there is any gold at all there, have you tested it in any way?

Actually It is a well known scam, the yellowish color usually deceives naive buyers thinking it has significant gold content, but if there is any gold at all - say that bar really is made from P4 generation MB pins, best you could hope for would be 1g/kg Au, but there is no way to know for sure even if it tests positive for gold at all - and the "nickel (and who knows what else) contaminated copper bar" form is very bad for recovery action in this case... Just don't try to dissolve it whole in nitric, gold won't even cover the price of acid alone and you'll be stuck with a lot of waste.... If it is education you're after and you are ready to responsibly deal with several l of waste look up AP (copper II chloride) method, it's quite easy, fun, and should handle your bar.... just don't expect to see any gold 

If I were you I'd use it in stock pot for cementation, but since I doubt you have need for that, best leave it as a paperweight in plain sight as a reminder not to fall for a scam ever again 

financially your best option probably is to sell it to local scrapyard as copper/bronze/brass...


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## mitchellnz (May 8, 2019)

Hi Niks

The seller was quite open about what it was so I don't think it's a scam. They made it for fun. I am just going to file it down and see what remains after the nitric does its work unless some has a better idea. Like I said it is a little unusual that anyone make would a bar thinking they are doing something useful.


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## bcgold (May 8, 2019)

mitchellnz said:


> Hi Niks
> 
> The seller was quite open about what it was so I don't think it's a scam. They made it for fun. I am just going to file it down and see what remains after the nitric does its work unless some has a better idea. Like I said it is a little unusual that anyone make would a bar thinking they are doing something useful.



Sooner or later someone will recommend that you read Hoke's Refining Precious Metals Wastes, you now have a copy so no excuses.


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## FrugalRefiner (May 8, 2019)

Mitchell, welcome to the forum. These "gold bars" have been around since before I joined this forum. niks neims has already told you the truth about them and given you good advice. 

At best, the bar really is the result of someone melting a bunch of pins, and there may be a tiny amount of gold in it. All too often, they're probably just bars of brass. Either way, it's a shame to waste good nitric acid to dissolve all the base metals to recover a trace of gold.

In refining, most members use what is called a "stock pot". It's the place we pour our used acids after we've recovered the majority of our values. But there's usually a tiny bit of values in the solution because it's not economical to chase these traces. So we add them to our stock pot, along with some metallic base metal, like a chunk of copper. Any values that may still be in solution will "cement out" on the base metal, as the base metal takes its place in solution. That is the best use for your bar. It will serve in a stock pot to capture trace values from your future refining efforts, slowly dissolving into the left over acids, and leaving any gold already in the bar at the bottom of your stock pot. You kill two birds with one stone. It's frugal.

Dave


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## mitchellnz (May 8, 2019)

Thanks for the advice Dave and I have already starting reading Hoke's book. There is a lot to learn. I am ever hopeful however. I will learn something from this, one way or another.


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## niks neims (May 9, 2019)

mitchellnz said:


> Hi Niks
> 
> The seller was quite open about what it was so I don't think it's a scam. They made it for fun. I am just going to file it down and see what remains after the nitric does its work unless some has a better idea. Like I said it is a little unusual that anyone make would a bar thinking they are doing something useful.



if you are hell bent on proceeding, file/drill in several places and first dissolve these filings (few g worth in a tiny beaker of acid) if there is some black/dark brown sediment left, dissolve it in AR & test with stannous, so you'll know for sure if there is any gold at all there - this test is incredibly sensitive...

going nitric->AR route for the whole 100g bar you'll have at least ~1l of waste, whatcha gonna do about that?

If it is education/expirience you are after, it is a very bad idea to start with unknown/questionable material, how would you ever know you are doing anything right? Damn, there could be lead there, you want to make some nice, healthy lead nitrate? 

But good job on reading Hoke's! great book!


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## g_axelsson (May 9, 2019)

Do a search for "gold drops ebay" and you will find a lot of posts about similar material.

Göran


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## Simon007 (May 10, 2019)

I know this is probably pointless saying this, but couldn't the op electro refine this? It would be fun to experiment I suppose, but a pain because you don't what is in it, maybe start with copper sulphate as a electrolyte and refine the copper and the slimes melt back into a bar and then maybe do the nickel in a nickel sulphate solution. I may be completely wrong but at least it won't be using litres of expensive acids. Does anyone have any experience in electro refining? 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Shark (May 10, 2019)

It could be run in a copper sulfate cell. The nickle will go into the solution and foul it pretty quick unless a decent amount of solution was used. It won't be very fast and care is needed to keep good electrical contact on the light weight parts. It isn't as simple as it sounds, but it isn't that complicated either. Generally a copper cell needs 98% copper to other metals, but 95% can work. These bars are no where near that amount of copper. With care and understanding how and what to look for it can be done though.

My way of thinking would be to melt it, and pour it into fine shot. If I had it, then I would add it to my stockpot. If not, a large pot of AP. I base this on the OP's determination to go through with this as an experiment and there is not enough there to make it a profitable venture.


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## Simon007 (May 10, 2019)

I agree with you there, I know we all do things that cost way more to process, but for learning purposes it is invaluable, like every piece of silver I refine is not worth what it cost to refine, although I don't sell it because one day it will be worth more!
I thought the electro refining would be a better option chemical wise, and not the same waste either, plus also I find electro refining and electro winning fascinating, I wish I new more about the subject, do you know any good literature that can help me shark? 

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## Shark (May 10, 2019)

There is some good reading in the Electrochemistry section. Especially 4metals thread on copper cells. I have to say I learned a lot from that myself. While most do not relate directly to Electrochemistry, there are many good books mentioned in this thread.....http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=25626

Archive.org has a lot of older books that can read online or downloaded as well. Many are mentioned in the above thread. Search can be found here.......... https://archive.org/search.php 

I start by using single words then narrow down what I am looking for by adding another one if needed.

More can be found here as well.... 

http://www.freebookcentre.net/Chemistry/ElectroChemistry-Books-Download.html

and here...

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/oxidation-reduction

Don't let it overwhelm you, and it can easily do it. Just read it as often as needed until it starts to make sense. Then read it until items from one page or book makes sense with items in another section. On a small scale I try to forget about the normal end product such as copper, and concentrate on the metal I am after, such as the gold. I tend to get side tracked sometimes, as with the copper cell, and have been tinkering with plating copper and electroforming. It gets almost as addictive as refining, :lol:


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## Simon007 (May 10, 2019)

You are a star shark, thanks for that 

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## anachronism (May 10, 2019)

Simon007 said:


> You are a star shark, thanks for that
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk



Yep he certainly is a star.


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## Shark (May 11, 2019)

Now I am embarrassed, been called a lot of things but never a star, :lol: :lol: 

A few more in case your caught up with those. 

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Analytical_Chemistry/Supplemental_Modules_(Analytical_Chemistry)/Electrochemistry


https://www.ausetute.com.au/electrowincu.html


the last one can help clear up some of the technical details when you find yourself in over your head while reading.

I had a few others with some great video lectures but they all seem to have been removed, or made a pay for class, such as the ones that used to be on the UC Berkeley sight. They may still do their free podcast which often has good information on Electrochemistry as well.


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## Simon007 (May 13, 2019)

I am sorry, I didn't intend for you to be embarrassed, you have helped me big time, although I think my wife might be a bit annoyed! I have lots to read. 

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## Shark (May 14, 2019)

In case you haven't found it, Khan Academy has a YouTube account with many free video lectures as well. 

The amount of free information is staggering once you learn to find it. I have 8 to 10 books I still haven't got around to yet just on copper alone.


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