# I love gold filled...



## Shark (Mar 4, 2018)

Here is a foil from a piece of gold filled I have been working on. It is from a belt buckle that was marked 1/10 12k. It is just heavy enough to not float, but it flies around pretty good when stirring the solution. It is fairly flexible at this point as well, but there is some spots on the back that still shows a silver color.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Mar 4, 2018)

I am envious.

Its been awhile since I have had the pleasure of working any goldfilled.
Looks beautiful.


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## Palladium (Mar 4, 2018)

Wet!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Shark (Mar 4, 2018)

Palladium said:


> Wet!!!
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:



I didn't notice that, :lol: 

But it will be ready for the next step tomorrow, it's to late tonight.


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## Palladium (Mar 4, 2018)

How much do you usually do as far as batch size in lbs?


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## Shark (Mar 4, 2018)

This batch is 1/4 pound. It is a test run for a new supplier. He had another guy running this stuff for him, but the return averaged 12K at best and left him a bit unhappy. After showing off some buttons and letting him test them, he gave me a shot at this material. If all goes well it will run between 1 and 3 pounds a month. There will be a few other side projects along if things develop to suit him as well. I will need some bigger beakers if I run more than a pound at a time  but they should be worth the cost.


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## Palladium (Mar 4, 2018)

Use stainless pots for the nitric digest. Once you get the base metals out and the foils concentrated you can use the beakers! Gold filled needs room for expansion! You can run up to 5 lbs in a five gallon *stainless* pot fairly easy.


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## Shark (Mar 4, 2018)

Will those stainless stock pots from Walmart work or do they need to be better quality?


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## Palladium (Mar 4, 2018)

This is the exact kind i use to use and the only one i can speak for from Wally World. 
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stainless-Steel-Brew-Kettle-20-Quarts-5-Gallons/190415184?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=8078&adid=22222222227048345244&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=146932839733&wl4=pla-257119393810&wl5=9012729&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=115070390&wl11=online&wl12=190415184&wl13=&veh=sem

First thing you need to do is drill the rivets out on the lid and pot handles. They are aluminum and will corrode really fast. Got to Lowes and get you some stainless screws and lock washers to reattach them. Doesn't matter if it's magnetic 400 series or non magnetic 300 series just as long as it's stainless. The pot will last about 3 years and they don't get holes from corrosion, but from cracks that actually form in the metal from all i can figure is nitrogen embrittlement.


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## Shark (Mar 5, 2018)

I have the Mainstays 12 quart on hand and all the nuts and bolts. I just need to find the washers, I did have some around here at one time. Not sure what stainless the pot is made from but a HDD magnet isn't attracted to it at all. And it has aluminum rivets as well.


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## Shark (Mar 5, 2018)

A bit of progress. It looks better than I was expecting.


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## MGH (Mar 5, 2018)

Palladium said:


> This is the exact kind i use to use and the only one i can speak for from Wally World.
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stainless-Steel-Brew-Kettle-20-Quarts-5-Gallons/190415184?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=8078&adid=22222222227048345244&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=146932839733&wl4=pla-257119393810&wl5=9012729&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=115070390&wl11=online&wl12=190415184&wl13=&veh=sem
> 
> First thing you need to do is drill the rivets out on the lid and pot handles. They are aluminum and will corrode really fast. Got to Lowes and get you some stainless screws and lock washers to reattach them. Doesn't matter if it's magnetic 400 series or non magnetic 300 series just as long as it's stainless. The pot will last about 3 years and they don't get holes from corrosion, but from cracks that actually form in the metal from all i can figure is nitrogen embrittlement.



Hey Ralph,

You've shown a video before where you digested gold filled outside, I think without having a lid on the pot. Do you have any experience using the lid that comes with this pot as a kind of watch glass to keep some of the fumes in the vessel?

I assume one would need to drill out the rivets on the handle of the lid as well. Before anyone asks, I'm not assuming a lid is effective fume control on it's own. I do have a fume hood; just like to keep a lid on things too.

Thanks


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## Smack (Mar 5, 2018)

Shark said:


> A bit of progress. It looks better than I was expecting.
> 
> IMG_0623.JPG



Looks yummy :mrgreen:


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## Shark (Mar 6, 2018)

First drop, unwashed. It looks paler than the picture shows.


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## Palladium (Mar 6, 2018)

MGH said:


> Hey Ralph,
> 
> You've shown a video before where you digested gold filled outside, I think without having a lid on the pot. Do you have any experience using the lid that comes with this pot as a kind of watch glass to keep some of the fumes in the vessel?
> 
> ...



Sorry i missed this. Using a pot is not like using a beaker. In a beaker you can see what is going on, but with a lid on a pot it's more difficult to judge the solution level or the reaction kinetics. I usually leave the lid off until i'm just about ready to add the final shots or two of nitric. During the first additions things are a little ornery and you need to fly sort of by the seat of your pants. Then you can put the lid on, but i leave it cocked sideways just a little bit with a crack. This allows the lids to slope and condensation that collects on the bottom of the lid will drain to the low side and drip back down into the pot. When you put the lid on flat the steam coming out the lid around the rim will condensate on the outside of the lip around the top of the pot and drip down the side of the pot and get on everything. A lid also serves to trap heat. As a solution grows in volume the ions have to move further and further to reach their target. So what happens is you think you are running out of acid to do the work, but what is really happening is they are still there they just have to travel further. Heat is that angry energy you need to push them around faster and faster. Getting a thousand or two milliliters up to boiling is not a real big problem, but getting 20,000 ml up to boiling is a real problem. As the solution grows it gives more and more surface area for heat loss on the pot surface. Back in the day i had to move from electric up to a gas turkey fryer because i just couldn't pump the heat in faster than i was losing it with electric. This is in a well vented fume hood pulling a lot of cold outside air in and around the pot which serves as a big heat dissipator in essence. Gas gets you there faster!

When you are running gold filled or silver in a 5 gallon pot it's not like with a beaker. With a beaker you are measuring in milliliters and with a large pot you are measuring in 100's of milliliters if not 1,000's. The common rule for a beaker is 2/3. That means if you have a 1,000 ml beaker the most you want to fill it is about 650 ml or just shy of 2/3. The other 1/3 is for expansion. Same with pots! A gallon of nitric will dissolve a little over 2 lbs of copper and base metals. 5 lbs of GF counting water, nitric, and wash downs you can easily do 5 lbs in a 5 gallon pot and be within the 2/3 rule.


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## MGH (Mar 7, 2018)

Palladium said:


> Sorry i missed this. Using a pot is not like using a beaker. In a beaker you can see what is going on, but with a lid on a pot it's more difficult to judge the solution level or the reaction kinetics. I usually leave the lid off until i'm just about ready to add the final shots or two of nitric. During the first additions things are a little ornery and you need to fly sort of by the seat of your pants. Then you can put the lid on, but i leave it cocked sideways just a little bit with a crack. This allows the lids to slope and condensation that collects on the bottom of the lid will drain to the low side and drip back down into the pot. When you put the lid on flat the steam coming out the lid around the rim will condensate on the outside of the lip around the top of the pot and drip down the side of the pot and get on everything. A lid also serves to trap heat. As a solution grows in volume the ions have to move further and further to reach their target. So what happens is you think you are running out of acid to do the work, but what is really happening is they are still there they just have to travel further. Heat is that angry energy you need to push them around faster and faster. Getting a thousand or two milliliters up to boiling is not a real big problem, but getting 20,000 ml up to boiling is a real problem. As the solution grows it gives more and more surface area for heat loss on the pot surface. Back in the day i had to move from electric up to a gas turkey fryer because i just couldn't pump the heat in faster than i was losing it with electric. This is in a well vented fume hood pulling a lot of cold outside air in and around the pot which serves as a big heat dissipator in essence. Gas gets you there faster!
> 
> When you are running gold filled or silver in a 5 gallon pot it's not like with a beaker. With a beaker you are measuring in milliliters and with a large pot you are measuring in 100's of milliliters if not 1,000's. The common rule for a beaker is 2/3. That means if you have a 1,000 ml beaker the most you want to fill it is about 650 ml or just shy of 2/3. The other 1/3 is for expansion. Same with pots! A gallon of nitric will dissolve a little over 2 lbs of copper and base metals. 5 lbs of GF counting water, nitric, and wash downs you can easily do 5 lbs in a 5 gallon pot and be within the 2/3 rule.


That's great insight - anticipates a lot of issues I would likely run into. Thanks!

Now I just need a couple 5 lb batches of GF to try it out on...


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## Shark (Mar 7, 2018)

Thanks for the insight of using the pans. That answered many questions up front.


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## Shark (Mar 7, 2018)

The second drop after a hot water, then a HCl wash. Dried and weighed at 6.4 grams. Haven't made it to the melt stage and the supplier is happy.


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## Palladium (Mar 7, 2018)

How many grams of material did you start with?


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## Shark (Mar 7, 2018)

After removing stones and beads it was 143.3 grams.


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