# Readers of the board who do not fulfill their obligations



## Harold_V (Aug 5, 2013)

Recently there's been reports of those who accept materials for refining from other board readers, but there is no settlement. Clearly stated, these individuals are using the board to scam their fellow readers. One such occasion began late last year, and has never been resolved, even when there has been a promise to do so. Based on that, I feel it only fair that readers be advised that certain individuals are not to be trusted. Do business with them at your own risk. 

As of today, I am recommending that none of you trust Barren Realms 007. He not only has failed to fulfill his obligation, but has ignored the party who trusted him in sending his values to be refined. 

If I get word of a settlement, I'll post a retraction, but, mean time, stay away from barren realms. Frank has been charged with this behavior by others. This is not an isolated incident. 

Harold


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## Harold_V (Aug 5, 2013)

It has been suggested that those who have issues with anyone who has failed to complete a transaction that was based on contact through the board to post accordingly, in this thread. Present facts only---so viable decisions can be drawn. 

I am also open to comments in regards to Barren Realms. Right now, the consensus is he should be banned, as he has a track record of screwing over readers. Please post your thoughts, keeping things polite. Unless he has supporters, right now my thoughts are he should be banned. 

Harold


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## Geo (Aug 6, 2013)

it makes me sad to think people would use the forum to scam people out of their hard work not to mention the monetary value. to me, respect means more to me than money, so i will never understand the reasons behind it. every time i have communicated with Frank, it was always on good terms. he always seemed to be straight forward and helpful. i would hate to see him banned. on the other side of the coin, you cant ignore the members that have trusted him and have been basically scammed. protection of the forum members should be very high in forum affairs. if he is a threat to other members by deception, the forum should not provide him with the means to perpetuate underhanded activities on unsuspecting members. a new member should consider many things before they ship their values off to parts unknown. one thing they can do is check to see how long the member has been on the forum (for Frank,that would be since April 2nd, 2009). if i were wanting to have a toll refine done, that alone may sway my decision to send him my material. 

as much as it saddens me, i would say to remove him from the board. he can make a new account but he will have lost all the years he has built for his name on the forum.

im sorry Frank. it really isnt anything personal because i dont know you that well.


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## Smack (Aug 6, 2013)

Don't care to have that type of person around me. No use for them in real life or on the net.


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## Palladium (Aug 6, 2013)

I can't say that he shouldn't be banned, but i can say that i have conducted many a transactions with Frank that involved financial deals and not once did he fail to come through. Now the time frame of when coming through meant was sometimes a little delayed, but for the deal i always found his honesty unshakable. I don't think he's a thief or shyster, but i do think he has a busy off forum schedule and that interferes with his refining side.
Still need to handle your business though!


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## NobleMetalWorks (Aug 6, 2013)

My name on the forum used to be SBrown, before I had it changed to NobleMetalWorks

I was involved with 4 other forum members in refining 1 lbs each of sim cards. 5 of us total, one of which was BarrenRealms007

This is the member that sent each of us 1lb each of sim cards:
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=28170

This is the thread where he comments on BarrenRealms007
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15016&p=155140&hilit=+sim+cards#p155140

There is a lot more to the story that Nico expressed to me, but since I am a 3rd party, I don't think it fair that I post that part of the conversation here. Perhaps someone can contact Nico and ask him what exactly transpired. The experience was so frustrating for him that he posted a thread on the forum explaining his experience with BarrenRealms007, and when deleted by a moderator Nico stopped posting on the forum all together. I'm not sure if he still reads posts (lurks) or not as I have not spoken with him in a very long time.

Scott

Edited:

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=15569&hilit=barren+realms+business


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## 4metals (Aug 6, 2013)

I am not trying to defend Barren, I have never had business dealings with him as I do not deal with the lot sizes he processes and my business is with refiners looking to do what he does albeit on a larger scale. The one thing I can say is often small quantity toll refiners get into trouble because they have material that they are not equipped to process properly. It s not unusual for the client shipping to a toll refiner to either misrepresent the material or improperly separate the scrap. This can lead to problems. 

Funny thing is too many refiners resist getting on the phone and saying there is a problem and they just do the best they can with their limited niche specific refining techniques. This can all to often result in poor yields or no yields. That dosen't mean the values aren't there, it means that a small refiners limited resources cannot get an acceptable recovery. 

I have been in many refineries and most have that bucket of whatever sitting in a corner that they cannot process or even sample properly. I suspect that this is what happened to Barren. 

I would hope that others can learn from Barren's experience, when you find yourself tasked with recovering a type of scrap you are either uncertain about or have never processed before, speak up sooner than later. Or if the client did not properly sort the shipment, separate it properly and notify the client immediately. This forum is a wonderful asset to get the how to details for a new type of material so there should be no excuse to do it improperly. Being a refiner you come with a poor reputation that has pre-existed most of us, not being up front and honest with your client only makes that reputation worse.


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## glorycloud (Aug 7, 2013)

Well said 4metals. I would tend to think this may be the case with Frank.
I have bought and sold with Frank and he has always completed the
transaction albeit not always as quickly as I would have preferred.

My estimation is that he is a straight up guy who for whatever reason
found himself caught between a rock and a hard place. I would imagine
that we have all been there at one point or another in life. It is what we
do and how we communicate that helps keep vendors and customers content
or not totally p*ssed off.

Kudo's to Harold and the moderators for not tolerating poor behavior.
I do hope the best for Barren and for whomever he was processing materials for.


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## Harold_V (Aug 8, 2013)

Enough time has elapsed for any problems that may have been present to have been resolved, as promised, and that appears to not be the case. One does not fix a problem by creating an identical problem. 

As a result, Barren has been banned from the forum. That will limit his ability to get others involved in like manner.

Again, use due diligence before getting involved with this guy. 

Harold


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## mls26cwru (Aug 11, 2013)

for those members who are interested, I am the reason this thread was created and my dealings with this thief lost me almost $900. I sent a PM to Harold a couple weeks ago outlining my story...here it is and hopefully you all will take heed of this warning.

"I wish it was under better circumstances that I was writing this message to you, but I am not sure what else to do at this point. Near the end of November, 2012, I sent a shipment of material to BarrenRealms007. It was roughly $550 worth of material he was going to pay for, and some other material he was going to toll refine for me. 

He acknowledged shipment on December 1st and sent a settlement wright up, to which I told him he could send the check with the recovered gold when he was done. By December 21st, he was telling me the material was 60% done. By the time January rolled around, he was sick and hadn't had time to process the material. By the end of March I had finally asked him if he could send the settlement check so I could pay my taxes... to which he told me he was waiting for payment on a shipment of boards and would send payment by paypal within a week.

Well, I never received the payment and that was the last time I had contact from him. Since April I have sent him 3 private messages via the GRF mail system. Obviously we can tell when someone receives a message, and I have not gotten any word back from him at all. 

I am really not sure what to do except bring it to the moderators' attention. I can provide all the emails i have and somewhere, i have the shipping receipt. Anything you need on my end, just ask for it and I will provide it if I can."

I have since had contact with BarrenRealms007 and proposed the offer: send me the original settlement check and current spot price for whatever material you have already refined (minus hes 20% cut). As of now, I have had no reply from this guy. please DO NOT deal with this individual unless you are willing to lose your material/money/gold.

Thanks for reading.


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## Noxx (Aug 17, 2013)

Perhaps I could create a review system for sellers and buyers. So that members can rate their transaction with said seller...


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## niteliteone (Aug 17, 2013)

Noxx said:


> Perhaps I could create a review system for sellers and buyers. So that members can rate their transaction with said seller...


Sounds like a good idea that would be handy for those who partake in this activity.
Sure beats searching a users every post looking for "Red Flags"


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## scrapman1077 (Aug 17, 2013)

I am on another forum using the same software, they setup a feedback system for all to use to rate sellers and buyers.


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## mls26cwru (Aug 17, 2013)

I for one think that would be a good idea... evidently barren realms had a bit of a history. 

also, i dunno if there are any links to his site left up on the GFR, but if there are, it might be prudent to remove then just on the off chance someone finds them.


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## Harold_V (Aug 18, 2013)

Noxx said:


> Perhaps I could create a review system for sellers and buyers. So that members can rate their transaction with said seller...


Yes!  Excellent idea!

It should be noted that such a forum would be most effective if those who contribute stick to the facts, and keep things civil and polite. There is no need to bad-mouth an individual---if they're not worthy of beng rated favorably, the truth will be more than enough to sink them, and all at their own hand, just like Barren's case. I would recommend an honest and full report on transactions. 

Harold


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## NobleMetalWorks (Aug 18, 2013)

I think this is needed, it would at least allow people to build or ruin their reputations by their own behavior, instead of it disrupting the rest of the forum posts. 

I think this is a great idea!

Scott


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## resabed01 (Aug 18, 2013)

This is a great idea and I have used this on other forums I'm a member of.
Just ensure there are sufficient safeguards in place so it's not open to abuse.


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## Harold_V (Aug 19, 2013)

resabed01 said:


> Just ensure there are sufficient safeguards in place so it's not open to abuse.


I'm a bit of a stickler in regards to things like that. Assuming our leader provides the means, If a member appears to be abusing the venue, you can rest assured, it would not go unchallenged, and would most likely result in getting banned. I won't allow it to become a tool by which morons can persecute others. 

I don't tolerate foolish behavior, and if there's anything I can't abide, it's a liar and cheat. Unless a member isn't the least bit concerned about getting banned, I fully expect the new venue will be used appropriately. I'll monitor it closely to ensure that's the case. 

Harold


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## user 12009 (Aug 19, 2013)

Palladium said:


> I can't say that he shouldn't be banned, but i can say that i have conducted many a transactions with Frank..............I don't think he's a thief or shyster, but i do think he has a busy off forum schedule and that interferes with his refining side.



I tend to agree with you. I have only dealt with him once. It was at the same time the big problem happened one year ago. I just kept me mouth shut back then. 

For what I sent him I think I got a fair deal but it took months and months to get his check. I do not know if he was just over worked or what. I did get a lot of emails telling me what process he was using but that was only after I had to ask what was happening.


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## Harold_V (Aug 19, 2013)

cyberdan said:


> I did get a lot of emails telling me what process he was using but that was only after I had to ask what was happening.


That, too, is a sore spot with me. As the rightful owner of the material in his possession, you have every right to know the status. If it's going to take six weeks, that's precisely what you should be told. If it's going to take three months and you get lip service, suggesting a shorter process time, you have every right to get your back up. If the refiner can't make deliveries as promised, and it becomes routine, I want to know. 

I'd like to go on record where that's concerned. If any reader of this board accepts material from another reader and it gets reported that information is not forthcoming, or that delivery dates are not met, and the owner can get no satisfaction---I'll see to it that the responsible party is no longer able to post on this board. I never want to read that a reader has to beg and plead for input, and goes ignored. That clearly is NOT acceptable. 

In my years of refining, there were occasions when I was unable to meet a delivery date. I do not recall even one instance where a phone call to the customer, explaining my problem, and a new delivery date proposed, was a source of irritation. People tend to cooperate when they know they're not being jacked around---and they have every right to be less than happy when they are. 

Harold


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## Palladium (Aug 20, 2013)

Harold is correct. I have had several times, one here recently when my exhaust system went down, that i couldn't make a deadline. Each time i called the customer and because of my previous history of communication and customer service there was not so much as a whisper of concern on their part. Customer service sells you product and business.


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## gold4mike (Aug 28, 2013)

I'm late to this thread but did want to add some input regarding Frank (Barren). I had, I believe three deals with him and they all went well enough. He took three or four days longer than I would have liked to get me paid on one of them but he did come through.

I don't believe he entered a deal with the intent to defraud anyone. I would bet that some life circumstance caused him to make a tough decision that he wouldn't have made otherwise.

I had a consignment arrangement several years ago with a man who sold used computers at a local flea market. We did many deals over the course of two years or more. He dropped out of sight at one point for more than six months, owing me about $1,000.00. When I finally bumped into him one day he explained that his wife almost died and the medicine she required took all the resources he could muster. I told him that communication goes a long way toward understanding. A few months late he contact me and told me that she had passed away. He thanked me for not pursuing him through the legal system. I agreed to do a few more small deals with him on a trial basis and he did manage to pay back a portion of the amount he previously owed me. 

I finally decided he needed the money much more than I did and told him I would forgive the rest of his debt. The joy on his face and the feeling of relief I got when I let go of the worry about it were worth the experience.

I may be wrong about Frank but I hope I'm not.

It is truly a shame that he chose not to communicate. It would remove the reason for speculation.


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## trashmasters (Aug 29, 2013)

Does anyone know franks real last name? I plan on pressing charges of theft of over $5000.00 . If someone could PM me his last name and address would be of great help. Thank you.


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## mls26cwru (Aug 29, 2013)

for those who are interested in knowing, Frank has settled up with me today fulfilling his end of our deal.


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## trashmasters (Sep 1, 2013)

I would be happy if he would answer my phone calls and return my material.


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