# IRIDIUM processing ?



## PGMAN (Apr 21, 2022)

What is a standard procedure of turning iridium ore to iridium metal ? And how is the resale of iridium


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## Ultrax (Apr 25, 2022)

Metallic iridium flakes from crashed ore or concentrated from sands can be quantitatively dissolved only in molten salts. And this is very long process always includes platinum. Almost impossible outside of specialized lab to divide clear 99,99%Ir and clear Pt 99,99%. And usually there is no practical need for this. Commonly used nature alloy of 90% of Pt and 10% of Ir (approximately)


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## PGMAN (Apr 25, 2022)

Wow !


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## PGMAN (Apr 25, 2022)

WhT is a molten salt ?


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## Stibnut (Apr 25, 2022)

Just what it sounds like - a salt that has been heated up until it melts. Most salts have fairly high melting points, but often within range of an air-fueled furnace. For instance, sodium chloride will melt at 801 C:


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## zachy (Nov 22, 2022)

try sodium bisulfate, usually iridium is combined with rhodium, you can start the separation.


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## PGMAN (Nov 22, 2022)

Ok


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## Lou (Nov 23, 2022)

Sounds like a recipe for blindness. Usually alluvial iridium (not from ore, but from placer deposits) is always associated with osmium.

Be warned!


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## kurtak (Nov 23, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> What is a standard procedure of turning iridium ore to iridium metal ?


 What makes you think the ore has iridium in it ?

Kurt


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## PGMAN (Nov 23, 2022)

kurtak said:


> What makes you think the ore has iridium in it ?


Lab test report

Edited by moderator for correct quoting


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 23, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> Lab test report


What kind of lab test report?


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## orvi (Nov 23, 2022)

Lou said:


> Sounds like a recipe for blindness. Usually alluvial iridium (not from ore, but from placer deposits) is always associated with osmium.
> 
> Be warned!





PGMAN said:


> What is a standard procedure of turning iridium ore to iridium metal ? And how is the resale of iridium


I will just *explain what Lou correctly pointed out with his post*. 

Iridium is commonly associated with osmium in the ores, and even ruthenium can be there, altough less likely. 
*When osmium is oxidized in strong oxidizing conditions - it converts to octavalent state - osmium tetroxide - OsO4* - which has very low boiling point and EVAPORATES from the melt or leach. *Osmium tetroxide is extremely toxic compound*, even in well setup industry, all manufacturers avoid its use (as catalyst for organic synthesis). It has very nasty feature - being very violent oxidant - to be reduced upon contact with tissue to lower valence osmium compounds - which are black and does not degrade in body on any circumstances.* So vapors of OsO4 hit your retina in the eye, deposit there and turn black. Irreversibly. Making you blind forever. No cure. *

Same story with ruthenium - which is actually used to visualize the fingerprints - vapors of RuO4 will contact grease from fingerprints and reduce themselves - turning black.


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## imrani (Nov 24, 2022)

orvi said:


> I will just *explain what Lou correctly pointed out with his post*.
> 
> Iridium is commonly associated with osmium in the ores, and even ruthenium can be there, altough less likely.
> *When osmium is oxidized in strong oxidizing conditions - it converts to octavalent state - osmium tetroxide - OsO4* - which has very low boiling point and EVAPORATES from the melt or leach. *Osmium tetroxide is extremely toxic compound*, even in well setup industry, all manufacturers avoid its use (as catalyst for organic synthesis). It has very nasty feature - being very violent oxidant - to be reduced upon contact with tissue to lower valence osmium compounds - which are black and does not degrade in body on any circumstances.* So vapors of OsO4 hit your retina in the eye, deposit there and turn black. Irreversibly. Making you blind forever. No cure. *
> ...


Very true


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## PGMAN (Nov 24, 2022)

Although I’d believe it to be true and agree, all this is true in theory and no evidence is present in practical cases except for one as this article claims, where a lady aged 32 spilled 9ml of osmiium over her self, skin & eyes, and after some symptoms she managed to recover. 



https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bcpt.13450


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 24, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> Although I’d believe it to be true and agree, all this is true in theory and no evidence is present in practical cases except for one as this article claims, where a lady aged 32 spilled 9ml of osmiium over her self, skin & eyes, and after some symptoms she managed to recover.
> 
> 
> 
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bcpt.13450


Osmium poisoning is in fact very rare, but the most important reason for that is that the Osmium itself is very rare.
The number of persons in contact with Osmium yearly is exceedingly small.
Additionally most of these are educated enough to treat it with respect.
Most of the cases of actual Osmium poisoning will probably come from the early days, 
when there was no or little safety protocols and little information to have. 
And then there is the odd refiner that don't have the full oversight or information due to lack of tests.

One of the risks with OsO4 is that it is accumulative so if you get a bit now and then, 
you might not even notice and your doctor would probably not know what is causing your eyesight or liver to fail gradually.
Ending up with a completely wrong diagnose.

In the end it comes down to knowing your feed stock/ore and the limitations of your skills and lab.


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## orvi (Nov 24, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> Although I’d believe it to be true and agree, all this is true in theory and no evidence is present in practical cases except for one as this article claims, where a lady aged 32 spilled 9ml of osmiium over her self, skin & eyes, and after some symptoms she managed to recover.
> 
> 
> 
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bcpt.13450


Even biggest guys in the organic chemistry industry refuse to allocate the facilities who work with osmium in synthesis to third world countries. They stopped to use it domestically completely (and trust me, replacing OsO4 as catalyst is sometimes impossible, and whole synthesis need to be completely re-established from scratch = immense money cost) and even refuse to use it abroad.

We used OsO4, or more specifically K2OsO4 precursor on many occasions throughout our syntheses in research. We stored the Os waste in classic 1L amber glassed bottles with standard plastic screw caps, which were PE from inside. After several weeks, OsO4 MANAGED TO STAIN POLYETHYLENE BLACK. One of the most unreactive substances.

This is not about one time events. I wish Lou had more time to talk about "osmium and ruthenium issue" in greater detail, as he certainly has immense first-hand experience with it, as professional PGM refiner.
If you will be ever processing Os containing material in oxidizing conditions, you will contaminate your workplace with Os inevitably - if you does not plan everything and scrub everything. Any leakage, low-grade fume extraction and fumehoods, exhaust re-suction to the lab... Will eventually expose you and your workers to very dangerous heavy metal. Slowly and steadily it find it´s way into your body and never leave. 

Very similarly to platinosis and related PGM toxicity. Many people here laugh at it saying they work with PGMs and they are strong and healthy, while washing beakers after use with bare hands. But truth is, chemistry is unforgiving and it always does what it is supposed to - no matter what your believes are. Some are more susceptible to the effects - like I am. 
I am well aware of the fact I am highly sensitive to PGM compounds. After year or two, despite wearing all PPE gear, and working diligently in fumehood - I encounter mild skin rash and itchyness after working larger batches of PGMs. From barely noticeable events, steadily and slowly to redness on the rim of my gloves, mild sore throat feeling and headache. All of these events can be very effectively tracked down to PGMs - with gold or silver, that never happened once. 

_One event happened several months ago - fumehood I was working in (with multiple ozt batch of formate reduction of PGM feed - effervescence of CO2 create aerosols) apparently re-sucked some air back into the laboratory. Two other ones were switched off, and pressure relieved by back-sucking the exhaust air to minor extent also by recupering the fumes (as the vents were in few meters distance one from another) - from evolution of aerosols of the chloride PGM solution in 5L beaker. After an hour or so of work, I start to notice subtle sore throat effects and itchyness on my face. Luckily, I recognized quickly where the issue lies - by opening the bottle of borane-dimethylsulfide in the hood I was working in. Awful smelling chemical. This in matter of minute came back by the other two hoods and clearly stenched from them. I quickly powered them up and instructed my colleague how to properly shut down the operation, as I immediately needed to go out. Tjis was clear warning sign for me, and from then ongoing, I take great care of what and how I do next. Mitigating PGM refining to bare minimum and sticking to pyrometallurgical ways of cleaning as much as possible, obviating the creation of PGM salts. And even in the cases where I need to actually disslove and work with PGM compounds, I prefer reactions where no aerosols or dried powders are produced. Solutions are practically perfectly containable and manageable, but evaporation, formate reductions, zinc cementations... These are concerning now for me._

For now, I managed to find ways how to mitigate the now practically unmeasurable exposure to these unforgiving compounds. And as I really do like and enjoy refining, I am maybe closer than I want to be to quitting all PGM refining, due to altough subtle, but clearly rising concerns about my health - which is my top priority.


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## FrugalRefiner (Nov 24, 2022)

PGMAN, please listen to the warnings people are giving you. This is not a joke. We have lost members of the forum because they worked with platinum group metals. When I say we lost them, I mean they died! As in DEAD! One of them, freechemist, dealt with these metals as his profession, and it still KILLED HIM. He knew the dangers. He took precautions. And he's still gone. I miss Hans.

But you do you. If you feel that the results of your internet search are more valid than what our members have told you, we can't stop you from following your beliefs. I only ask one thing. Please protect everyone around you - those in you house, your neighbors, their pets and any other animals around you, and the folks who will be exposed when they have to clean up the mess you leave behind.

Dave


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## Swissgoldrefiner (Nov 25, 2022)

It will be much more easier and cheaper to give it to a refinery that refine it. Most of them can buy it back from you or give you pack the metal.


PGMAN said:


> Lab test report
> 
> Edited by moderator for correct quoting


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## PGMAN (Nov 25, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> What kind of lab test report?


I can PM you the report if you require and maybe you can guide me there on


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## PGMAN (Nov 25, 2022)

If any one can guide me to refineries in Asia /Africa that would process ore .


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## PGMAN (Nov 25, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> PGMAN, please listen to the warnings people are giving you. This is not a joke. We have lost members of the forum because they worked with platinum group metals. When I say we lost them, I mean they died! As in DEAD! One of them, freechemist, dealt with these metals as his profession, and it still KILLED HIM. He knew the dangers. He took precautions. And he's still gone. I miss Hans.
> 
> But you do you. If you feel that the results of your internet search are more valid than what our members have told you, we can't stop you from following your beliefs. I only ask one thing. Please protect everyone around you - those in you house, your neighbors, their pets and any other animals around you, and the folks who will be exposed when they have to clean up the mess you leave behind.
> 
> Dave


Oh very sorry to hear, what happened to him ?


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 25, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> I can PM you the report if you require and maybe you can guide me there on


I’m no specialist on lab reports by themselves.
I was more into what kind of lab and tests done?
XRF, fire assays or PGM assays?


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 25, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> Oh very sorry to hear, what happened to him ?


I think that was in the information?
Some kind of Platinosis if I’m not mistaken.


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## PGMAN (Nov 25, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I’m no specialist on lab reports by themselves.
> I was more into what kind of lab and tests done?
> XRF, fire assays or PGM assays?


I don’t know what method the lab used ..


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## PGMAN (Nov 25, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I think that was in the information?
> Some kind of Platinosis if I’m not mistaken.


What I meant was if there was some specific kind of an accident like the one I mentioned ..


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 25, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> What I meant was if there was some specific kind of an accident like the one I mentioned ..


Just exposure over time.


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## PGMAN (Nov 25, 2022)

Very sad


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## Lou (Nov 25, 2022)

He died of idiopathic fibrosis of the lung (complications from working with chemicals, platinum as he told me from misting as it dissolved). They’ve (International Platinum Association) found that Pt(IV) basically is as allergenic as it gets for individuals susceptible to sensitization. We’re talking exposure at the picogram/cu meter scale. Asthma is no fun, and that’s where it starts. Where it can end is the lung fibroses.

The issue with osmium-containing materials is that they’re acutely toxic. That and the risk/reward ratio isn’t very good. So toxic is it, if you can smell it and get a few good breaths of it, it will kill you by suffocation—it plates a layer of OsO2 inside of your lungs. There is no antidote. The smell is off putting enough (a weird ozone-like smell similar to RuO4) to flee but if you can smell it, you’re already above the harm threshold. When I deal with osmium containing iridium feeds, Os and Ru I endeavor to get out of the way first quantitatively and the setup for that is redundancy on redundancy. 

Indeed, the reason why poisonings are so rare is it is well known to be acutely toxic, unforgiving AND it is a rare substance, particularly osmiridium. As such, only a few firms ever mess with it. Processors include a few labs of mercenaries in China, the S African refiners and Russia and of course Colonial here stateside (the latter probably the best known of anyone messing with osmium intentionally as they have the grip on OsO4 for microscopy stain). Even firms like JM and Heraeus and Furuya avoid the OsIr material as there’s not much interest in Os and it’s a dog to purify it. Nevertheless, every so often some uneducated fool gets ahold of it, thinking it worth more trouble that it is, and unwittingly and permanently danages his corneas and alveoli in his lungs.

I know a gent in China that I can point you toward for help…


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## PGMAN (Nov 26, 2022)

How Isit 


Lou said:


> He died of idiopathic fibrosis of the lung (complications from working with chemicals, platinum as he told me from misting as it dissolved). They’ve (International Platinum Association) found that Pt(IV) basically is as allergenic as it gets for individuals susceptible to sensitization. We’re talking exposure at the picogram/cu meter scale. Asthma is no fun, and that’s where it starts. Where it can end is the lung fibroses.
> 
> The issue with osmium-containing materials is that they’re acutely toxic. That and the risk/reward ratio isn’t very good. So toxic is it, if you can smell it and get a few good breaths of it, it will kill you by suffocation—it plates a layer of OsO2 inside of your lungs. There is no antidote. The smell is off putting enough (a weird ozone-like smell similar to RuO4) to flee but if you can smell it, you’re already above the harm threshold. When I deal with osmium containing iridium feeds, Os and Ru I endeavor to get out of the way first quantitatively and the setup for that is redundancy on redundancy.
> 
> ...


how Isit possible to detect any poisoning that has been done by metal toxicity? 

And yes pls point me towards the gent


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 26, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> How Isit
> 
> how Isit possible to detect any poisoning that has been done by metal toxicity?
> 
> And yes pls point me towards the gent


For general Heavy metal poisoning a blood test will do it I believe.
For Os poisoning it is a totally different story, it reduces back to metal and stay put in the position it is.
I do not believe it can be picked up by blood tests and the amount will be far less than any normal scanner would pick up.
MRI, PET and so on.


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## PGMAN (Nov 26, 2022)

Lou said:


> He died of idiopathic fibrosis of the lung (complications from working with chemicals, platinum as he told me from misting as it dissolved). They’ve (International Platinum Association) found that Pt(IV) basically is as allergenic as it gets for individuals susceptible to sensitization. We’re talking exposure at the picogram/cu meter scale. Asthma is no fun, and that’s where it starts. Where it can end is the lung fibroses.
> 
> The issue with osmium-containing materials is that they’re acutely toxic. That and the risk/reward ratio isn’t very good. So toxic is it, if you can smell it and get a few good breaths of it, it will kill you by suffocation—it plates a layer of OsO2 inside of your lungs. There is no antidote. The smell is off putting enough (a weird ozone-like smell similar to RuO4) to flee but if you can smell it, you’re already above the harm threshold. When I deal with osmium containing iridium feeds, Os and Ru I endeavor to get out of the way first quantitatively and the setup for that is redundancy on redundancy.
> 
> ...


One time exposure can cause this illness ?


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## kurtak (Nov 26, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> One time exposure can cause this illness ?


 
Lou already answered that question for you


Lou said:


> The issue with osmium-containing materials is that they’re acutely toxic. That and the risk/reward ratio isn’t very good. So toxic is it, *if you can smell it and get a few good breaths of it, it will kill you by suffocation*—it plates a layer of OsO2 inside of your lungs. There is no antidote. The smell is off putting enough (a weird ozone-like smell similar to RuO4) to flee *but if you can smell it, you’re already above the harm threshold*. When I deal with osmium containing iridium feeds, Os and Ru I endeavor to get out of the way first quantitatively and the setup for that is redundancy on redundancy.


Per the bold print in that quote the answer is -----------

*YES !!!*

If you are not working in a *VERY* well controlled lab setting with *ALL* proper equipment *specific* to working with Os/Ru/Ir you are putting yourself at risk ether over time risk &/or one time first time risk 

For that matter - ALL PGM chemistry puts you at risk of PGM TOXIC exposure if ALL safety procedures/protocols are not followed when working with PGMs

Kurt


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## kurtak (Nov 26, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> I can PM you the report if you require and maybe you can guide me there on


Is there a reason you can't just post that report here in this thread ?

It would help us better understand your situation & therefore help you with the help you are asking for

You don't need to post company name(s) - (you can block that out) we just need to know "type" assay done (fire assay - ICP - XRF - etc.) & the results 


PGMAN said:


> I don’t know what method the lab used ..


The report "should" have that information 

Kurt


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## PGMAN (Nov 26, 2022)

Okay if that’s the case then how should it be diagnosed, medical procedure ?


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## kurtak (Nov 26, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> medical procedure ?


Lou also answered that question


Lou said:


> There is no antidote.


The other part of your question


PGMAN said:


> Okay if that’s the case then how should it be diagnosed


That I have no idea of other then IF you think you have been exposed you need to talk to your doctor

Kurt


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## PGMAN (Nov 26, 2022)

There is no knowledge of PGMs in this part of the world, I am not asking for my self, many people here are practicing such extraction with no knowledge of its toxicity


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## zachy (Nov 28, 2022)

Hello Friends, I think that if Lou wants to help us, he can put the basic security measures to deal with Osmium and Ruthenium, where there is iridium there is always Osmium and Ruthenium? what is the best way to process iridium in large quantity?


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## PGMMEX (Nov 29, 2022)

Hola: es mejor que vendas el concentrado de Iridio y osmio incluso el rutenio a refinadoras. Ganas más así que extrayendo.

Carlos


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## Lou (Nov 29, 2022)

The main problem is buying the damn stuff from S. America is looked at less than favorably because the money probably goes back to human trafficking, extrajudicial kidnappings and murders, and very rarely to the poor devil who dug it out of the creek in the jungle that they polluted with mercury.

Rutheniosmiridium has been making the circuit here lately in US and in Switzerland. A lot of the big refiners are a flat no on it because of its provenance and the major sourcing issues associated with it. It's functionally worthless to the people trying to sell it, and even if you do manage to find someone to buy it, the return isn't great and the time frame is long.


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## orvi (Nov 29, 2022)

PGMAN said:


> There is no knowledge of PGMs in this part of the world, I am not asking for my self, many people here are practicing such extraction with no knowledge of its toxicity


You cannot establish safe facility with few hundred bucks in hand. Dangerous compounds of Os and Ru are volatile. So you need to have good fume extraction with scrubbing - not to just vent the toxic junk to outside air and poisoning your whole neighborhood. 

Platinum salts espetially are toxic and very allergenic. Follow the material stream - it´s actually pretty easy said - if that stuff does not come into you, or onto you, you are OK. Now the tough part - you need to prevent that happening. Aside of touching the stuff or getting it anyhow onto your skin, your eyes, hair, clothes etc... You also need to assure you does not breathe any.

Perfect. Now we know what shouldn´t happen. How we do it ? Wear full PPE - goggles, suit, long gloves. That way we assure nothing will get onto your skin and clothes. You will need to eliminate any contact of contamined gloves or protective equipment with anything that contacts your skin. So no answering the phone call when you are suited up - you will transfer the toxic stuff onto your phone. No eating or drinking, and no smoking. Diligently cleaning all things you have touched with contamined gloves.... Etc, etc...

Now, how we assure we do not breath any toxic salts ? Well, simple answer is we work in fumehood which will pull contaminants out. Beware of any kind of process that create aerosols - such as dissolution of the metals in acids - as bubbles collapse, they create aerosol, that goes OUT of the vessel together with gasses. ALWAYS. So be prepared for that. Covering the beaker does not stop the aerosols from getting out of it. It cuts good portion of them, but nearly not all. All dry samples upon manipulation creates dust. This dust is floating in the air and you can inhale it. So no manipulation with solid toxic salts outside fumehood. Thermal decomposition of the ammonium chloroplatinate can also cause the complex to sublime = even more dangerous than aerosols from the reaction outgas. Etc, etc... 

Follow the compound you does not want to come into contact with. In principle it is very easy. In reality, you need to think about EVERYTHING at least twice.


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## Sitta yagodoka (Nov 30, 2022)

Oooh i want to buy hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide and then go to gold mines to dissolve gold and pricipitate with iron2sulphate what are precautions should i take to work with this chamicals? Are they danger?


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 30, 2022)

Sitta yagodoka said:


> Oooh i want to buy hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide and then go to gold mines to dissolve gold and pricipitate with iron2sulphate what are precautions should i take to work with this chamicals? Are they danger?


Of course. HCl can be quite corrosive and cause burns.
But worse, if you put random ores in acid without knowing what is in it, 
it may lead to serious poisoning and injuries to yourself and anyone around you.
Acids may be ok for most jewellers scrap, e waste and so on, but not for ores until you know its content.


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## goldshark (Nov 30, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Of course. HCl can be quite corrosive and cause burns.
> But worse, if you put random ores in acid without knowing what is in it,
> it may lead to serious poisoning and injuries to yourself and anyone around you.
> Acids may be ok for most jewellers scrap, e waste and so on, but not for ores until you know its content.


Yggdrasil, I think this guy is just funning with you. Anybody who starts a conversation by "oooh, I want to take some acids to a mine", is not a refined person.


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 1, 2022)

Sitta yagodoka said:


> Oooh i want to buy hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide and then go to gold mines to dissolve gold and pricipitate with iron2sulphate what are precautions should i take to work with this chamicals? Are they danger?


This post do not belong in this cathegory, I can move it for you, but what title do you want for it?


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## Rhpos (Dec 1, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Osmium poisoning is in fact very rare, but the most important reason for that is that the Osmium itself is very rare.
> The number of persons in contact with Osmium yearly is exceedingly small.
> Additionally most of these are educated enough to treat it with respect.
> Most of the cases of actual Osmium poisoning will probably come from the early days,
> ...



haha, OSO4 is a gooey liquid at room temp, viscous. It has a unique smell, you'll never forget it. So volatile, you really have to seal it in an ampuole, otherwise it disappears. I'd reckon the sulfide should be stable black powder. Expensive stuff ! Os is like the bstd child in the PM family.... imagine how much of it refiners have boiled off....


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 1, 2022)

Rhpos said:


> haha, OSO4 is a gooey liquid at room temp, viscous. It has a unique smell, you'll never forget it. So volatile, you really have to seal it in an ampuole, otherwise it disappears. I'd reckon the sulfide should be stable black powder. Expensive stuff ! Os is like the bstd child in the PM family.... imagine how much of it refiners have boiled off....


According to Wikipedia that is wrong.
It is a colourless solid with a melting point at 40C.
It may sometimes seem yellowish due to contamination with OsO2


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## Sitta yagodoka (Dec 1, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Of course. HCl can be quite corrosive and cause burns.
> But worse, if you put random ores in acid without knowing what is in it,
> it may lead to serious poisoning and injuries to yourself and anyone around you.
> Acids may be ok for most jewellers scrap, e waste and so on, but not for ores until you know its content.


What are metal which may found in ores that may brings dangerous to this reaction


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## Yggdrasil (Dec 1, 2022)

Sitta yagodoka said:


> What are metal which may found in ores that may brings dangerous to this reaction


Not necessarily metals. But Arsenic, Cadmium and Mercury comes to mind immidieately.

Where do you want to move your posts, you highjacked this thread with an off topic request.


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