# Pic of my Cell



## husker4515 (Mar 9, 2011)

Here it is.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 10, 2011)

You might want to rethink your basket the way it looks you can create a direct short if the basket bends down and settles on the bottom of your container.


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## husker4515 (Mar 10, 2011)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> You might want to rethink your basket the way it looks you can create a direct short if the basket bends down and settles on the bottom of your container.



Thank you for the heads up. I need to find a more ridged and bigger piece of stainless steel mesh to form my pin basket better.


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## seawolf (Mar 10, 2011)

Copper mesh will give better results and fewer problems when you clean out the cell for processing. See Lasersteves videos and check out past posts on cells. The other members gave me a lot of help my first time.
Mark


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## Palladium (Mar 10, 2011)

Steve has the copper mesh for sale on his website. Your going to have problems with the stainless.


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## dtectr (Mar 10, 2011)

I'll second the copper basket - I can post a template I use to make mine. So far I've processed 30 lb. (13.6k) in mine & still going strong! Rinse well after each use (lazersteve recommends storing it in a ziploc baggy) I leave mine out to dry. Keep it dry & periodically "rough up" the surface, just enough to displace any oxidation. I made a lip for the rim of my cell, & i slide an old stainless steel butter knife through it for better contact.


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## seawolf (Mar 12, 2011)

I would like to see the template for the basket please. I have had a few problems with mine.
Mark


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 12, 2011)

seawolf said:


> I would like to see the template for the basket please. I have had a few problems with mine.
> Mark



Template? There is no template for making these things look at Steve's website and get an idea on how to mold on by hand using the mesh he has available.


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## joem (Mar 12, 2011)

Qiuck power supply question:
I am pulling apart 100 24 port hubs.
The power supply that comes with each uses a tower wall plug which
connects to the adapter.
The adapter numbers are
1.0A max 47-63Hz
Output: +5v 2.5A

Would this be enough power to supply a gold cell?


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## Emmjae (Mar 12, 2011)

seawolf said:


> I would like to see the template for the basket please. I have had a few problems with mine.
> Mark



Here is a picture and a crude template drawing for the basket I make and use. The overall size is 4” x 1-3/4” with ½” deep sides. This can be made from a single piece of 6” x 6” copper mesh with very little scrap.

I made several of these so I could rotate them while using. One in the cell, then one in the rinse and one allowed to try before going back into the cell.

I suggest you cut this out on plain paper and learn how to fold before going to the copper mesh. I ended up putting this template on some thin cardboard, like the back of a tablet. In time you will see that the only reference lines needed will be the cut lines.

Mike


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## seawolf (Mar 12, 2011)

Thank you I think I see what I am doing wrong. I made the basket deeper and I have read that it work as a faraday cage and not strip properly.
Mark


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## lazersteve (Mar 12, 2011)

seawolf said:


> Thank you I think I see what I am doing wrong. I made the basket deeper and I have read that it work as a faraday cage and not strip properly.
> Mark




You want the front lip of the basket to be shorter than the other sides so that a faraday cage is not created.

Steve


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## Hannibal Smith (Apr 11, 2011)

With this thing you can recover gold???
How does it work?? Sorry I can´t find anything in the internet how it works.
Can you explain me this thing??
Sorry my english is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Hannibal


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## Barren Realms 007 (Apr 11, 2011)

Hannibal Smith said:


> With this thing you can recover gold???
> How does it work?? Sorry I can´t find anything in the internet how it works.
> Can you explain me this thing??
> Sorry my english is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
> ...



Do a search on the forum for sulfuric cell. It uses undiluted sulfuric acid and DC current to deplate gold items.


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## lazersteve (Apr 11, 2011)

Check my website for videos of the process also.

Steve


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## Hannibal Smith (Apr 11, 2011)

I don´t find any videos on your website..
I want to know what metal is the anode and the kathode. 
And what sulfuric?

Max


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## lazersteve (Apr 11, 2011)

Have you taken the Guided Tour Link in my signature line?

The videos on my website are on the 'Home' page under the cell videos section.

Steve


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## Hannibal Smith (Apr 11, 2011)

It doesent work. :evil: 

Max


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## lazersteve (Apr 11, 2011)

Hannibal Smith said:


> It doesent work. :evil:
> 
> Max



I just tested it. 

It took two login tries, but it worked all the way to the cell video.

User: gold
Pass: goldm1ner*

Steve


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## Hannibal Smith (Apr 11, 2011)

Ahhh now it works. :mrgreen: 

Max


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## Hannibal Smith (Apr 11, 2011)

But how much % have the sulfuric??

Max


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## Barren Realms 007 (Apr 11, 2011)

Hannibal Smith said:


> But how much % have the sulfuric??
> 
> Max



Full strength, no dilution. 97% if memory serve me right.


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## Hannibal Smith (Apr 12, 2011)

Hmm that´s bad. Here in germany its very difficult to get 97% sulfuric... :roll: 

Max


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## Barren Realms 007 (Apr 12, 2011)

Hannibal Smith said:


> Hmm that´s bad. Here in germany its very difficult to get 97% sulfuric... :roll:
> 
> Max



Look for drain cleaner and then check the MSDS sheet when you find some to make sure it is the correct stuff.


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## Hannibal Smith (Apr 12, 2011)

Okay. Thank you.

Max


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## patnor1011 (Apr 12, 2011)

Hannibal Smith said:


> Hmm that´s bad. Here in germany its very difficult to get 97% sulfuric... :roll:
> 
> Max



If you live close to Czech or Polish borders go and get that there. You can get even nitric there and I guess that it will be cheaper than in Germany.


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## dtectr (Apr 12, 2011)

husker4515 said:


> Here it is.


 The other thing that I notice is that the right or non-connector end of the cathode appears to touch or else hang very near the bottom. As your gold accumulates on the bottom, the lower the cathode hangs, the less time you can run your cell. 

Specifically, once the cathode makes contact with the sediment on the bottom, your cell will begin to short across to anode side, stalling or stopping your stripping, & rapidly heating the solution, which if let run, will begin to strip base metals fairly aggressively. Tie it up level with some uncoated copper wire, until you can make an anode with 2 clips.


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## husker4515 (Apr 12, 2011)

dtectr said:


> husker4515 said:
> 
> 
> > Here it is.
> ...


 
Dtectr, Thank you.

I just emptied my cell and collected 150 ML of black powder. No wonder why I have been having issues with my cell, I stop using the copper mesh because it wouldn't work as well as the stainless steel mesh. The whole time my cell was shorting out and I didn’t know it, thanks for heads up. It did get very hot, more than usual and ate right through two SS wire baskets. I will have to make a new lead anode with two clips and switched back to my copper basket. Thanks again Dtectr.


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## dtectr (Apr 12, 2011)

husker4515 said:


> dtectr said:
> 
> 
> > husker4515 said:
> ...



No problem, my friend, we ALL live and learn. 

I'll post a pic of the cathode I wound up making after several attempts at other designs. Hope it helps.
dtectr


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## philddreamer (Jul 18, 2011)

If I may add my "2 centavos", always keep track of the acid's temperature. When it gets too hot, it will dissolve just about anything. When it gets hot, just back off for a few minutes & let it cool. If I recall, the temp. should be below 100 degrees F.

In the pic., I used to use the pan for when I was filtering the solution, then I found out about the temp issue, so I would fill the "pan" with water & that help keep the acid cooler longer. But, be very careful not to splash any of the water in the acid; DON'T be in a hurry!!!
Don't let the container sit in the water over-nite either. Sulphuric acid absorbs water, & when water gets in the acid, you loose the high concentration & when this happens, the solution will start dissolving base metals, like copper.
This is the reason why you have to put a lid when your done with the cell, or put the acid back in a sealed container. 
If you suspect there's water in the acid, heat the acid & evaporate the moisture from it, this will concentrate it; but be very careful when handling hot sulphuric!!! 
When you put your cell together, check Lazersteve's video, again & again, so you don't miss any details. 

Take care!

Phil


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## Geo (Aug 6, 2011)

OK guys, Ive kept it a secret long enough.having a analytical mind ive come up with an improvement on the copper basket.ill post pics when i build another.i start with a peice of 10 gauge copper wire and use pliers to bend the wire into the shape of the basket i want to make and then cut a peice of copper mesh to cover the bottom,back and sides. then i strip a short peice of small stranded copper wire to use as "thread" then with a sewing needle,sew the mesh to the copper wire frame.it takes so much less mesh wire because its one ply but the 10 gauge wire is so heavy it is very strong so you can load it as heavy as you want to and can even push down on it with some force without worry of it bending.applying downward force stimulates more activity.ive been thinking about applying a copper weight on top of my material to hasten the process.i do about a half of a pound of pins at a time.


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## Palladium (Aug 6, 2011)

Make sure if you're using a basket that the front of the lip is turned down shorter than the side lips. If you don't you will create a faraday cage and the process will slow down or won't work.


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## jmdlcar (Aug 16, 2011)

What brands of drain cleaner are best? And what local store would have it?

Jack


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## Geo (Aug 16, 2011)

any hardware store should have it. look for the drain opener in a plastic bottle inside a plastic bag. i use Liquid Fire. works just fine to me. i posted the way i make my baskets in the general tab but heres a pic of my baskets.


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## jimdoc (Aug 16, 2011)

jmdlcar said:


> What brands of drain cleaner are best?
> Jack



Rooto is a good one.

Jim


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## dtectr (Aug 16, 2011)

jimdoc said:


> jmdlcar said:
> 
> 
> > What brands of drain cleaner are best?
> ...


Yup. It seems to have fewer additives than Liquid Fire, but some use it with no real problems.


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## jmdlcar (Aug 16, 2011)

I should have ask but I know I need Drain Cleaner (Liquid Fire or Rooto) and 32% Hydrochloric Acid (HCL). What other Chemical do I need or any thing else?

What is a good temp to keep it at? Is it better to keep it cool or cold to work better? I know I should keep below 100 degrees F.

You all been great help.

Jack


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## Geo (Aug 16, 2011)

jmdlcar said:


> I should have ask but I know I need Drain Cleaner (Liquid Fire or Rooto) and 32% Hydrochloric Acid (HCL). What other Chemical do I need or any thing else?
> 
> What is a good temp to keep it at? Is it better to keep it cool or cold to work better? I know I should keep below 100 degrees F.
> 
> ...


you only need the sulfuric acid (drain opener) for the gold cell, no hcl is needed. keep the acid as cool as you can safely. while operating at 12v the cell will heat quickly if you are running large pieces or a mesh basket, try to keep the amps below 10, 8 is optimal.concentrated sulfuric acid will not attack copper while it is cool but once it warms up it will attack copper readily.


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## jmdlcar (Aug 16, 2011)

Geo said:


> jmdlcar said:
> 
> 
> > I should have ask but I know I need Drain Cleaner (Liquid Fire or Rooto) and 32% Hydrochloric Acid (HCL). What other Chemical do I need or any thing else?
> ...



So when I get done with the sulfuric acid (drain opener). What is left to do is melt it and I will have gold. Or is there any thing else to do?


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## Geo (Aug 16, 2011)

have you read any post on this? lazersteve has some nice videos showing how to do the whole process. when the cell gets fairly hot when you touch the glass its too hot,stop and take a break and let it cool down. you wont have to stop to collect the powder until the acid gets almost as thick as jello. when the acid gets thick pull your cathode out and depending on the material you may have to brush the black powder and sludge off the cathode with an old tooth brush back into the cell.then rinse the cathode and place in a plastic bag to help keep the oxidation off. if you use an anode rod remove that and set aside, if you use a mesh basket rinse and dry with a hair drier and place in a plastic bag. keep all rinse water in a plastic container. place the lid on your cell and let stand for at least 24 hours. most of the black powder will have settled by then. use a large funnel with a paper towel folded many times and pushed into the small part of the funnel from the top to make a filter. pour acid from the cell slowly into the funnel. try not to disturb the powder in the bottom as much as possible until all the acid has been filtered then pour the last bit in. DO NOT RINSE WITH WATER. put the filtered acid back into the cell for the next batch and process the black powder in the manner you know best.
hope this helps you. good luck.


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## jmdlcar (Aug 16, 2011)

Here what I found so far.


lazersteve said:


> First time electrolyzer de-plating
> 
> The following comments are not meant to detract from what you are doing, I'm merely trying to give you a better understanding of what factors are important when using the cell verses which ones are more trivial. Please accept them in this light.
> 
> ...


And this.


lazersteve said:


> Black Powder from Cell
> 
> When your cell is full you should:
> 1. Let all the black powder settle
> ...


I don't know what next.
Jack


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## Geo (Aug 16, 2011)

ok. is there something in that you don't understand? that's pretty much the end.that is the reclamation part of the cell after that comes the refining part. follow the directions above and when you have your black powder rinsed you digest the powder in hydrochloric acid and chlorine bleach. when the powder is dissolved filter the solution into a clean container and you have just made Auric Chloride. after waiting for the chlorine to evaporate you will precipitate the gold using sodium metabisulfite, not bisulfate. the black powder that collects from this process is your refined gold.


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## Amber (Aug 29, 2011)

Geo said:


> ok. is there something in that you don't understand?



I have a question about cleaning the siphon hose. Acid to water is the mantra and I understand that is really important with sulfuric. So if I siphon off the acid for re-use after the black powder has settled, how do I safely rinse the siphon hose? I can't seem to think this through so if any one can point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it 

Amber


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## philddreamer (Aug 29, 2011)

Hi Amber!
The hose would not contain that much acid to make a big "splash". 
I use a big syringe, (from a farm feed store), & squirt some water thru the 1/4" clear hose & into ANOTHER container. Keep that water out of the main acid! I let the sediment in the main container settle for a day or 2, & then siphon; it makes it easier to filter, but one could just start filtering thru several times until the acid is free of sediment. The acid w/sediment can be slowly added to several times its volume of water, (keep track of how much acid you started with); that makes it easier to filter. After filtering the acid with extra water, you heat & evaporate the water, thus reconcentrating the acid. Sulphuric won't evaporate that easy! You'll know the water is out because the acid will start to "smoke", plus check with the original acid volume.

I have plenty of fiberglass insulation, so I use a plug as filter & then run some HCl/Cl thru it & recover the gold from the filters. Some like to use toilet paper.

I hope this helps.

Phil


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## Amber (Aug 29, 2011)

philddreamer said:


> Hi Amber!
> The hose would not contain that much acid to make a big "splash".
> I use a big syringe, (from a farm feed store), & squirt some water thru the 1/4" clear hose & into ANOTHER container. Keep that water out of the main acid!
> 
> Phil



Thanks Phil! I was hoping that was the case that if you let the hose drain for a bit while doing other stuff you could rinse it out pointing the open end into a waste container, or a drain. Then continue to flush the drain. We learned in pesticide training that the best way to dispose of product is to use as directed. So with that philosophy I think it would be correct to rinse drain opener into the drain. Especially the small amount that I'm rinsing out of my siphon hose. I am saving the bulk of it to re-use.



philddreamer said:


> I let the sediment in the main container settle for a day or 2, & then siphon; it makes it easier to filter, but one could just start filtering thru several times until the acid is free of sediment. The acid w/sediment can be slowly added to several times its volume of water, (keep track of how much acid you started with); that makes it easier to filter. After filtering the acid with extra water, you heat & evaporate the water, thus reconcentrating the acid. Sulphuric won't evaporate that easy! You'll know the water is out because the acid will start to "smoke", plus check with the original acid volume.
> 
> I have plenty of fiberglass insulation, so I use a plug as filter & then run some HCl/Cl thru it & recover the gold from the filters. Some like to use toilet paper.
> 
> ...



OK, now I'm a little confused here. I have not started running a cell yet, so maybe it will be more clear later. I like to visualize everything I can before hand. That's what made me ask about the siphon hose. In my mind, I was standing there with a hose and I didn't know what to do with it. Thanks for answering that question. Your answer gave me another question.

Help me understand what you just outlined. If I have been reading correctly, I will let the black powder settle when I am done running the cell. I siphon off the acid and save for re-use next time I want to set up and process gold plated scrap. The remaining black powder and acid mix is poured into a larger quantity of water, slowly. Then settle, decant (using a filter), and repeat as needed. That will leave me black powder to refine now and a filter paper to add to the collection for later processing. Why do you describe evaporating the water to re-claim the sulfuric acid? Are you saving the small bit that is diluted with the black powder? It can't be but a small percent of the original volume. In my mind it was waste. Or is your process a little different? Are you diluting everything that was in the cell?


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## Palladium (Aug 29, 2011)

What he is talking about is letting the cell settle so all the black powder is on the bottom. Them you try to remove as much acid as you can without disturbing the powder. The acid you just removed is concentrated so it won’t have to be boiled back done like the dilute acid will be. What you can’t remove will be trapped with the black powder. You have to dilute this with several times the volume with water. You can’t pour the concentrated acid through the filter paper or it will eat the filter paper up and cause you a big mess. Once you filter the remaining diluted solution to recover your gold you can now take the diluted solution that came from this and heat it up to drive off the excess H2O2 and it will be re concentrated and ready for reuse in the cell.


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## philddreamer (Aug 29, 2011)

You're welcome Amber!
Don't flush straight down the drain BEFORE filtering, in case any gold that might be in the rinse. Make sure no values are present in your rinse, then dispose.
Ok, I learned that one can let the sediment settle in the acid for a couple of days. 
Or in order to speed the process, dilute in 2 or 3 times water, that way the acid is thinner & easier to filter. (I always have something else going, so I don't mind waiting).
After you have filtered the the acid & ALL the gold sediment has been recovered, the diluted acid is heated until the water starts to evaporate. When the water is gone the acid will start to "smoke". BE VERY CAREFULL...
Let the acid cool & store. Don't let sulphuric acid expose to humidity over nite, you'll have to evaporate again. Diluted sulphuric will dissolve copper.
So, if you had 1 litre of sulphuric in you cell, diluted with 3 litres of water for filtering, after filtration, evaporate the 3 litres of water & you have your 1 litre of acid, (-), for the next batch.
The black powder then process thru HCl/Cl & so on.


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## Amber (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks Paladium and Phil. You cleared up my questions. The system is no loss for both acid and gold. Gold powder unintentionally siphoned off in the top part of the concentrated acid is reused in the cell and will be recovered in the next run. You're doing the same with the diluted acid. A little heat and back to concentrate. Would you consider this step optional?

Thanks Phil for reminding me not to rinse the siphon straight into the drain. It could have picked up powder especially at the end of the siphon. So I'll rinse into a container of water and add that to what I collected and diluted from the cell. Or better yet, I'll rinse it first into the prepared container of water that I'm going to pour the black powder and acid into.

I think I am ready mentally to give it an actual run. I just need to gather a few items including a rubber apron. And I need a weekend that is free. I hope to proceed and post some photos in the show and tell area by the end of September.

Thanks again for helping me understand.

Amber


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## Geo (Aug 29, 2011)

there's no real reason to concentrate and reuse the acid other than the economics and less chemicals in the environment.where i live two liters of drain cleaner is about $15.00 so if i lose 1/3 of my acid due to diluting and filtering at 1 liter per run i would only get 3 batches for $15.00 but by recycling my acid i only add about 1/2 a cup per batch and get to reclaim that at a later date, at that rate i get 8 batches per container.


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## philddreamer (Aug 29, 2011)

Yes, the step its optional. A person makes the decision according to concience, finances & a good "waste handling" practice. Make a habit of the latter, in case some neighbor decides one day to call EPA on you. You show them you have everything well under control.

Before you start your first batch, write every step down so you can follow them & minimize any mistakes, like, ooops I forgot to do this, or that...
I've been there & done that... :roll: 
Looking forward to hear good news! 8) 

Phil


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## Amber (Aug 29, 2011)

philddreamer said:


> Before you start your first batch, write every step down so you can follow them & minimize any mistakes, like, ooops I forgot to do this, or that...
> I've been there & done that... :roll:
> Looking forward to hear good news! 8)
> 
> Phil



You and I think alike Phil. I do have notes. I visualize. Then I will set up and walk through dry. Once live, I am certain I will still find some where that I will want to improve next time. I'm used to that. I am a designer and always, when a project is done, I would do it different. I made a second copper basket today and it is better than the first.

Thanks again for the encouragement. I am confident of success.


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## Photobacterium (Dec 29, 2011)

joem said:


> Qiuck power supply question:
> I am pulling apart 100 24 port hubs.
> The power supply that comes with each uses a tower wall plug which
> connects to the adapter.
> ...



i suggest an old AT power supply. they have an on-off switch attached.

the newer power supplies (ATX) get their on-off through the motherboard.

sources for these power supplies -

http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?ID=22685&C=216&S=1242

$50 + shipping is pricey, but i just wanted to show you what i was talking about.

250 watts is typical for these. They come standard with the older computers.

Someone correct me if these are not adequate for a Cell - I have not done a Cell yet. But I use them like a cheap lab power supply, or in the old days for my computers - for that they work good.

Other sources -

http://www.alltronics.com/

[b]http://www.halted.com/[/b]

Halted is one of my favorite surplus stores, been going there for 20+ years.


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## dtectr (Dec 29, 2011)

This is my 3rd edit. Read on and you will see why. Sorry. 
This is in response to GEO's suggestions regarding clean up of the cell. I am forced to use my cellphone and threads are very hard to follow right now. Hope this helps someone. 
i like the forced dry to discourage oxidation on the basket. 
The toothbrush not so much. H2SO4 attacks organics very vigorously, leaving a goo that unless followed by Incineration creates its own set of problems. If they are still available, a fiberglass brush such as once used by typists or else a stainless one rinsed immediately would be preferable. 
IMHO


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## Geo (Dec 29, 2011)

dtectr said:


> This is my 3rd edit. Read on and you will see why. Sorry.
> This is in response to GEO's suggestions regarding clean up of the cell. I am forced to use my cellphone and threads are very hard to follow right now. Hope this helps someone.
> i like the forced dry to discourage oxidation on the basket.
> The toothbrush not so much. H2SO4 attacks organics very vigorously, leaving a goo that unless followed by Incineration creates its own set of problems. If they are still available, a fiberglass brush such as once used by typists or else a stainless one rinsed immediately would be preferable.
> IMHO



im sorry. sometimes i don't explain everything i say well enough. i never meant to imply anyone to use a used toothbrush. i buy the ten pack from family dollar for a buck to do things like that. there should be nothing organic on them. i understand i said old toothbrush and again i apologize as its really a matter of style of speech. im not afraid to say that im as redneck as it gets and my speech reflects that. no matter how well you can write you cant get away from lifelong habits. here we say things like upinunder, I've had people ask me exactly what it means "upinunder a car" "well" i say " you have to lay down and look up in under to see the muffler".


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## Smack (Dec 29, 2011)

dtectr said:


> This is my 3rd edit. Read on and you will see why. Sorry.
> This is in response to GEO's suggestions regarding clean up of the cell. I am forced to use my cellphone and threads are very hard to follow right now. Hope this helps someone.
> i like the forced dry to discourage oxidation on the basket.
> The toothbrush not so much. H2SO4 attacks organics very vigorously, leaving a goo that unless followed by Incineration creates its own set of problems. If they are still available, a fiberglass brush such as once used by typists or else a stainless one rinsed immediately would be preferable.
> IMHO



I get my brush from a auto parts store, it's just like a toothbrush but the bristles will hold up to the chemicals, it's just a small parts cleaning brush.


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## dtectr (Dec 30, 2011)

Geo
Don't apologize, my amigo. As I mentioned, I have been using my cell, so I didn't explain, either - I still consider most plastics as organic, as most cheap-os are petroleum products.
Again not necessarily accurate on my part. Maybe someone with more chemistry know-how can clarify.
Every time I used the toothbrush it was in conjunction with concentrated H2SO4 & it turned to goo immediately. The parts cleaning brush would be more chemical resistant, I imagine.


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## spooks69 (Jan 1, 2012)

Two questions about building this cell, and I have book marked this thread because it is absolutely the most informative. 

1) has anyone made a solid copper basket like the "Mighty Mite" sold on Ebay? I have one constructed, and I think it needs some "Drain Holes" drilled into the bottom to allow the particles and acid to not pool up inside of the basket. Will this work in your opinions?

2) do you need to use a lead cathode? Can you use Stainless steel? I spent two hours fighting lead this evening, and I'm really more of a "sheet metal" guy...

Thanks!


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## Harold_V (Jan 2, 2012)

spooks69 said:


> Two questions about building this cell, and I have book marked this thread because it is absolutely the most informative.
> 
> 1) has anyone made a solid copper basket like the "Mighty Mite" sold on Ebay? I have one constructed, and I think it needs some "Drain Holes" drilled into the bottom to allow the particles and acid to not pool up inside of the basket. Will this work in your opinions?
> 
> ...


The concept of a solid basket has merit. A sulfuric stripping cell works by dissolving gold, not by electron flow from the objects being stripped. The sulfuric acid is converted to persulfuric acid in the proximity of the anode, so as long as it is present, any gold within the proximity should be dissolved. The only real need for open areas is to drain the residual acid when the basket is removed. I would recommend a generous amount of open space, assuming it doesn't cause the loss of the items being stripped. 

Harold


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## spooks69 (Jan 2, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> spooks69 said:
> 
> 
> > Two questions about building this cell, and I have book marked this thread because it is absolutely the most informative.
> ...



Awesome Thanks Harold! Any ideas on stainless or galvanized metal vs lead cathode?


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## Harold_V (Jan 3, 2012)

spooks69 said:


> Awesome Thanks Harold! Any ideas on stainless or galvanized metal vs lead cathode?


I'd be inclined to suggest lead, but if you keep water out of the sulfuric, GSP swears that steel will serve perfectly well. Large stripping cells are made of steel sheet or plate and apparently serve perfectly well. He also suggested that stainless was not a good choice. 

The large cell I built (but never put in service) was water cooled and made of stainless. The tank itself was the cathode. Not having operated the cell, I am unable to speak from experience. 

Harold


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## spooks69 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank you so much!

I found another Thread with a lot of pictures, and some commentary on building a cell. I have some material to play with, and some more on the way. I've put up some Craigslist ads and Freecycle ads, we'll see what I can make happen!


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## spooks69 (Jan 10, 2012)

How long does it typically take for your black poweder to settle? I let mine sit overnight (IN a 33 degree work space) and it looks just as cloudy as last night?!?!


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## philddreamer (Jan 10, 2012)

Spooks, it could take a couple of days. That's way Lazersteve's recommends diluting the sulphuric with the sediment, with to 2 or 3 times water; by diluting the acid, the sediment settles much sooner.
CAUTION: ADD SLOWLY THE ACID TO THE WATER!

Let the sediment settle; decant; rinse the sediment. Then digest the sediment in HCl/Cl, or AR.

You can filter the diluted acid in order to recover any fine gold, or skip the filtering & add the diluted acid to the stock pot. 
Or, heat the the diluted acid, & re-concentrate the acid by evaporating the excess water. Make sure to follow the safety procedures on handling hot sulphuric acid!

I like to filter mine first, then run HCL/Cl thru the filter thus recovering the sediment trapped in the filter; add the HCL/Cl to the sediment & digest.
Then, when I'm done with the whole process, I heat & re-concentrate the acid. (Check the pic on page 3)

Take care & be safe!

Phil


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## spooks69 (Jan 10, 2012)

Awesome! Thanks! I did about a pound or more of plated jewelry last night. I'm just eager to move to the next step! My rinse water has quite a bit f black sediment in it too....And I remembered Acid into water, not Vise Versus! What I didn't remeber is to NOT adjust your glases with your acid wet chemical gloves on...

"What is that burning sensation?"

Now I have a whole head hood and repirator set up...so I'll be better next time!


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## lazersteve (Feb 10, 2012)

Harold_V said:


> spooks69 said:
> 
> 
> > Two questions about building this cell, and I have book marked this thread because it is absolutely the most informative.
> ...



Harold,

I have to repectfully disagree with you on this point. 

Here's my reasoning by example:

1. Gold plated pins are placed in a hollow copper tube (pipe capped at one end for example) to a level below the top of the pipe and submerged into the electrolyte enough to flood the tube and power is applied (+ to the tube, - to the lead cathode) .

2. The power will now flow through the path of least resistance from the outer shell of the copper tube to the lead cathode. The point in the cell where the electrons go from the positive anode lead into the electrolyte is where the persulfuric acid is formed. The tube protects the plated items from the persulfuric acid.

3. The gold plated scrap inside the tube will not be exposed to vicinity of the electron flow where the persulfuric is forming and hence it will not strip.

4. If the tube is short enough and the plated items are piled high enough out of the tube, but not out of the electrolyte, electricity will flow through the plated scrap, it will start to strip near the top of the stack. After the gold is stripped below the surface of the copper tubes top lip, the gold will no longer strip as the power prefers the easier path of flow directly from the outer shell of the pipe. All of the persulfuric acid is being created out side of the pipe so no gold will strip.

The pipe in effect creates a shield around the plated scrap preventing the gold from being exposed to the persulfuric acid created by the electrical flow. The gold must be in close proximity to the point of electron flow to be exposed to the persulfuric that is created as the electons flow through the acid.

I do agree that if a pile of gold plated items is placed on a flat solid plate of copper, submerged in the electrolyte and power applied that the gold would strip (I've done this before, but it has many other problems). If the solid bottom is enclosed on four sides the stripping will only occur on the top edge of the gold plated items *above and slightly lower than* the top of the side of the solid box facing the negative lead. A three sided solid copper box missing the side closest the cathode will work best of the solid sided anodes, but still has other problems associated with it's shape and proximity to the cathode.

In a nutshell the gold plating must be in close proximity to the point where the electrons flow into/out of the electrolyte for stripping occur as the persulfuric is formed. With copper mesh all of the individual intersecting wires of the mesh produce the desired persufuric reaction and gold strips from the outer layer of the gold plated stack inward as the persulfuric pentrates through the holes in the mesh and into the gold plated stack. Stripping is most complete and fastest when all sides of the plated item are subjected to the persulfuric acid generated by this electron flow. Hence, items stripped individually strip more completely than those piled together in a stack.

On the subject of whether or not the rate of stripping is proportional to the electron flow: it must be regardless of whether the electrons flow through the gold or through the electrolyte making persulfuric and then strips the gold. Either way it takes a finite number of electrons to create the persulfuric which in turn a finite amount is require to strip a given amount of gold. All in all the electrons are what produce the desired result via persulfuric formation driving the process. It's the exposure of the gold to the persulfuric that determines to what extent and how long it takes. No persulfuric exposure = no strip, infinite time:: maximum persulfuric exposure= total strip, shortest time base upon gold thickness and physical shape of anode/cathode. 

Steve


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## Harold_V (Feb 10, 2012)

Steve,
I agree totally with your comments, assuming a typical stripping cell. I'm quite sure a person isn't restricted to that design, however. 

I am aware of the fact that current flow must be near the item being stripped, and that it can not be isolated. I am also aware that it is easy to determine when all gold is stripped, considering amperage drops drastically. 

I interviewed the operator of a large stripping system (US government operation) years ago, and was well informed on procedures. In their operation (with a water cooled cell), after items were dumped and reloaded, 28 volts were applied, then when amperage fell to near zero, it was assumed that all parts were fully stripped. They had an endless number of 55 gallon drums filled with stripped parts, all government surplus items. 

My thoughts were that a shallow pan would serve well, and that the proximity of the cathode would likely have to be altered, with the pan low in the cell, and the cathode high, so exposure was from the tops of the plated items. Just as with basket stripping, the items would have to be dumped and reloaded at least once, to ensure complete stripping. 

My comments were intended to suggest that there may be a way to approach the problem from the perspective of a solid basket. I still think it has merit, although I'm at a loss to understand why it might be necessary. 

My plans were to make 6" x 24" baskets from heavy copper mesh, but as you know, they were never realized. I was too busy refining karat gold to spend my time messing with plated scrap. 

Harold


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## Geo (Feb 10, 2012)

if i understand correctly, you could use a pan in a square dish with the cathode suspended over the dish horizontally? lets say i used a 9x9 baking dish for the cell and an 8x8 steel baking pan for the basket. i could then suspend a thin lead sheet across the top, just submerged in the electrolyte? i could scale this up to do many pounds at a time. this is a very good concept, i think i will get started building one to check and see how much i can do at one time. at the present when i start a batch, i have to run all day and well into the night to get a batch completed.(i don't like having to stop in the middle of a batch, it just seems more work to restart) of course the steel pan will have to be perforated.


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## Harold_V (Feb 10, 2012)

The one consideration would be that the pan must have considerable clearance from the bottom, so there's room for the stripped values to accumulate. I agree that the pan should be perforated, so precipitated gold would have an avenue of escape. 

I'm not convinced a steel pan would be in your best interest. I would not endorse the idea so long as it was a part of the anode system, which it would be. I'd be inclined to use copper. 

If you venture forth and try a steel pan, might be a good idea to report the results. I could be wrong. 

Harold


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## lazersteve (Feb 10, 2012)

I have constructed several versions of the 'horizontal cell' and they do work, and yes the position of the cathode has to be altered so that it is suspended above the material. It also has to be properly shaped and positioned as does the anode 'plate'. 

It worked so well that the cell got extremely hot very fast and could only be run for short cycles with long cooling times between as mine were not water cooled.

Some other issues I ran into were lack of complete stripping, separation of the gold sludge from the feed material, and poor connection between the plated scrap stack and the anode plate. The weight of the plated scrap was not always sufficent to maintain continuity between the anode and the scrap, especially for larger batches. Along with the heat came more intense fuming issues with the concentrated acid as well.

Steve

EDIT: I see you have already mentioned sludge collection as I was typing this reply. Even with perforations in the plate, I had to work to wash the gold from the inner areas of the plated scrap pile. I finally set up a dip tank large enough to hold a fully loaded plate for rinsing the stripped scrap in so I didn't get water in the cell.


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## Geo (Feb 10, 2012)

yes, i can see there will be some planning in this. it sounds like something that could help me though. if i cut down on the amps, it may not heat up so fast.


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## necromancer (Mar 4, 2014)

great thread thank you

i have thought about building a horizontal cell, until today i didnt know it was possible

that will be my next input into the search bar


Dave C.


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