# Automated Refining system AFFTECH 10000



## aflacglobal (May 5, 2007)

Thought some of you might want to take a closer look at the workings of the 10000 series. This model is about 2 years old. Some new items have been added since this, But the science is the same.

Somebody Give me the cons. 8) 

Ralph


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## goldsilverpro (May 7, 2007)

Basically, it is a self contained, karat gold, aqua regia refining system. It could be set in your living room, probably. In the early '80's, Shor made one almost exactly the same, in size and arrangement, except for the computer. The fume scrubbers were a little different. This one uses liquids. Shor used chunks of lime and charcoal. Neither uses air dilution - the concentrated fumes are scrubbed. It seems that both transferred everything by vacuum or pressure. They both would be fairly simple to design and set up. Nothing really special. Lots of chrome on this one. The Shor machine cost about $ 15,000 to $20,000.

I noticed that they don't show very good pics of the 6 stage scrubbers. There are 2 different solutions used, one in stages 1,2, and 3 and the other in 4,5, and 6. I wouldn't be surprised if sodium hydroxide (caustic soda, lye) were one of the solutions and if hydrogen peroxide were the other.


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## aflacglobal (May 7, 2007)

Thanks,
GSP . I wanted to find any and all flaws. Point out what you see that could be improvements. You got any old info on that Machine. You the man.

Thanks

Ralph


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## darkelf2x1 (May 8, 2007)

you could try creating a smaller version so that a refiner can purcahse several machines and run multiple batches seperately

or 

create a muliple batch machine using the same scrubber system (if possible) using smaller reaction vessels 

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my reasoning is that the refiner's customers would prefer having their batches run seperately from everyone elses and theres the added bonus of allowing the customer to see their gold being refined

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depending on the parts cost, you might spend about 1000 - 2000 dollars on an automated machine (but thats a rough guess my gut tells me it will cost more)

with a 1 liter reaction vessel and down sized scrubbers the total area taken up is about 150 square inches which is smaller than the area taken up by a usual desktop computer


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## aflacglobal (May 9, 2007)

Exactly.

Good evening Gentlemen. You and GSP have both pointed out good points that i had previously came across myself. This is the exact reason i don't explain explain things sometimes. I want to see if others can pick up on the small things to.

I guess you could call it market research. lol
I agree , it would need to be cost feasible. The machines i am dealing with. ( you have to read the post and kind of put it together, it's like a puzzle. ) Are basically the same as any small one any of us might design.

The only difference being the controls and sensors that control my system.
It's the same as the 10,000 but with a lot more complex set of software
and a little bit more advanced instrument array.

I am designing these systems for the processing of gold dust , that is produced from mines, mainly South Africa. The needed size for the average mine is about 100 kg / day.
These people are not genius when it come to refining. Come on they play in dirt all day. 
So you got to make it dummy proof. Several machines yes.
as you mentioned darkelf2x1 i want to run in batches to control the processes and the purity. Also if you only have one machine and it breaks , you are screwed. This way if you lose a machine , you only sacrifice a cut in production. Add in a kick ass induction furnace for melting and casting, couple that with a top of the line XRF, and that solves the major obstacles of processing, casting, purity, analytical assaying, no open flame melting, minimal chemical handling, if any, the list goes on.

They mine it , drop it in the machine, the timer goes off. ding !!! , it goes to the induction furnace, it's melted and cast, after that you hit it with the XRF
to verify it purity. Their are certain Q.C. checks that are carried out during the whole process to track purity levels, One is a built in XRF to analyze the amount of content in the aqua regia process and to control it with software.
Just a few other thing to teach them to keep them from killing themselves,
And they are ready to go. It sounds easy ? , Don't it lol

Traditionally mines have relied on the refiner for this process. We are know about refiners. Well here they can skip all these fu**k me processes,
and take it from the source to the market. Anyone see the profit in that ???
You think that the cost of this equipment is really a factor in this ? 
Hell no !!! These people create money. Me I'm the man , with the man, That knows the man, who talked to that guy one time. Any way, I'm the dude who will be glad to hook them up. 

now i deal with a company that markets mining equipment to these companies. Anyone see where this is going ??????
I also have set up a refinery here to # 1 Make money # 2 to demonstrate to these people how simple it is.
If i can't buy their gold , then did i mention i can set them up with a refinery. And did i mention it's in their contract to return all disposable
waste by products to us, free of charge for disposal. Whats that worth at 100 kg of processing a day. All they are taking is the silver and gold.
I have also set up a US based sales company to handle my product sales and the sale for the mines. ( even though they can refine it , they still need to sell it. lol )

Heres a project for all of you. Look on the net see what you can find gold dust for. Be careful a lot of them are scams. But you will find the average price. When you get that price. figure 100 kg/ day processing.
$ 10 kg avg processing cost. And you tell me what the price difference between raw ore and spot is. Cut all the middle men out and where does that leave me. Huuuuuuuummmmmmm. :shock: 

This is not all, but i am tired. If you only knew the AML bullshit, The Patriot Act crap, the banking, or the other 15 dam processes that went with this your head would probably explode.
I enjoy talking to all of you. I just thought everyone might like some insight to this little world of mine. It's not much different than yours ( chemically that is ) Plus it helps me learn things from your prospective.
Hell I'm new when it come to this shit. Thank god for smarter people. Or we would all go to hell. LOL  
Anyway i got to go thanks for listening gentlemen.

Ralph


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## mike.fortin (May 9, 2007)

Ralph--I watched that movie. That is some machine. Out of my pricerange. Mike


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## goldsilverpro (May 9, 2007)

I think it looks like the real deal for the South African gold mines. You definitely need something fool proof in that application. The price seems right, at $100,000. Some Italian company is selling a triple inquarting gold gold refiner for $750,000 that ends up doing about the same thing. The amount of 100 kilos - 220# - 3,215 tr.ozs. - $220,000 - per day, is a lot of gold. 

How many cycles/day to get 100 kg? Or, is it continous? To dissolve 100 kilos would take about enough aqua regia to fill the 50 liter flask half full 8 times, if my math is right. One-fourth full, 16 times.

I don't see much market in the U.S. for the refiner. It's standard design with too many frills for them. It's too easily built and they wouldn't want one anyway. Compared with what they're using, they're a pain in the butt. The big item is the 50 liter flask. In every refinery I've been in, there are 2 or 3 of these sitting in storage - never used. I think you could buy them cheap. Some of them might have a whole system they would sell you. 

I personally couldn't use one but I can think of places that could - a big manufacturer of class rings or any other large jewelry maker, e.g.

For the small guy, a version could be made for less than $1000. Maybe, only a few hundred and some scrounging. The beauty of the design is the fume scrubber, which could be simply made. You could probably use sealed buckets, on pedestals, in a plastic water bath heated with fish tank heaters or a stainless tank over a burner. The fumes could be drawn from the bucket lid spout through a series of liquid containing, vertical plastic pipes.

There needs to be a variety of sizes.

Ralph, with the device I PM'ed you about, the same volume could be acheived for about $30,000, or less. It's also not nearly as complicated.


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## darkelf2x1 (May 9, 2007)

had some time this morning to compile a rough parts list






left some stuff out - new total is $729.95


most of those are actual prices and some are rounded up estimates (1 is)

after that you have to start making the stuff your self (that i know of)

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i agree with gsp that you could make a cost effective machine. scrounging around you could make a good machine for about 1000 or less, more if you dont want to hunt down stuff like what i did


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## AuMINIMayhem (May 9, 2007)

Darkelf... looks like something I should be smoking out of.. :wink: :lol: 

*just bustin your huevos*


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## aflacglobal (May 9, 2007)

Yeah that's what i going to do too. I figure that after the xrf i can put in a gravity bong. :shock: 

GSP. You are correct. I have found several people here in the U.S. who want smaller, But that not what I'm in it for. I have actually sent two or three of them to the forum. I am just doing the little machines as a hobby.

Expensive hobby i might add. this is just when i have time. If i can find it.
The machine you see the 10,000 I pay about $ 35,000 then add the Xrf and a couple of other little specialty items. Mainly software and controls. I get out at around $ 52,000. It takes 4 to do a 100 kg comfortable. Throw in a $55,000 XRF for the assaying. $ 35-40 grand for the induction furnace. The molds, chemicals, blah, blah,
Ive got $ 400 k give or take. Total price take to the mine. 1.2 million.

You say, I wouldn't give that. Well we ain't rich and tired of getting screwed by the man above us.
You've seen the profit margins. Even more for the mines They don't have to buy it. So how many days does it take to break even. 
1 week.Tthe Exact time I'm there to set it up. You would be a fool if i showed you this and you didn't do it if you were a mine. 

I have one in production and two on back order for setup in Africa right now ( whole setup's ). Brother this is in less than a month. It's silly. They ask how much and i just keep going up. Supply and demand. You demand it , Hey I'll supply it. 

Set up. Oh yeah I'll have to charge you shipping and setup fees. Really, how much is that extra ? $ 50,000. OK.
Dude i love this deal. I was in it to make money off the gold , but it's going Else wheres. I still have my sights set, But i just can't over look the profit here. Hell I'll step over quarters to pick up dollar bills , all day long. lol

I'm like you , i keep waiting for the punch line, but it ain't coming. Whats the down side ? I ain't figured it out yet. But I'm sure it's in their somewhere.

I've got everything from bankers, to accountants, to lawyers, to mickey mouse himself looking at this thing and all of them can't find it either. Hell half of them want to invest. Lucky thing for these people I'm honest. I could of a hell of a scam or two for this situation.  

I wanted to ask them where they were all at when i was trying to get my house financed. OH it's different then. Walk in their like Jed clampet, and they look at you funny like you got food stamps, until you whip out the old signature card on their ass and then it's different. Can i get you a drink MR Mathes. Did I ask for a fu***king drink. 5 minutes ago you wouldn't have pissed on me if i was on fire. You gentlemen would love to be with me at times. That was the funniest shit. 

I don't play that crap. You can take me, for me or you can go to hockey sticks for all i care, But you better not look down, not only on me, anyone. 

That pisses me off.
Anyway i have a three liter Pepsi bottle and some gravity experiments, i need to tend to.

Later Gentlemen,

Ralph


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## aflacglobal (May 9, 2007)

Just of some interest.


http://www.fioainternational.com/first1.htm

http://www.amritgroup.com/gold-refining.htm

http://metalsplace.com/metalsboard/?s=203

http://www.afftech-refiners.com/English/The%20method_files/Afftech%2010000PC%20video%20rid.wmv

http://goldmachinery.com/machinery/italimpianti/refining/iao5050-1

http://www.preciousmetals-pmpc.com/gold-bug/

http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/other/mining/techdocs/gold.pdf

http://www.gold.org/discover/sci_indu/GBull/1998_2/Kinneber.pdf

http://www.gold.org/rs_archive/Corti_Chris_SFS.pdf

http://www.greenkarat.com/about/Gold%20Recycling.pdf

http://www.ishor.com/subzeroinstr.htm

http://www.teknokarat.com/product.htm

https://www.orcbs.msu.edu/waste/resources_links/WasteFAQ/waste_faq.htm#33


http://www.min-eng.com/hydrometallurgy/6.html

http://www.min-eng.com/hydrometallurgy/refs/2007.html


http://www.gold.org/discover/knowledge/index.html


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## goldsilverpro (May 10, 2007)

Interesting links, Ralph


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## aflacglobal (May 10, 2007)

Thanks,

I have a hard Drive full.  


Ralph


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## aflacglobal (May 10, 2007)

Hey Gentlemen,

Found something else of interest,

Check these out. :idea: 


Ralph


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## lazersteve (May 10, 2007)

Here's the web version (easier to read):

http://www.amritgroup.com/gold-refining.htm

Interesting.


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## aflacglobal (Jun 20, 2007)

*PME
Palladium Manual Equipment*

Something new from the Doc at Afftech.

This is after the Afftech process and is used to reclaim the remaining
metals.......

Next>>>>>> Platinum.


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