# Mixed metal bars



## golddigger2 (Jun 4, 2010)

Has anyone tried processing mixed metal bars? I have access to an unlimited supply of mixed metal bars containing approx 30% gold, 50% copper,20% silver, nickel, rhodium and tin. I have tried a couple of experiments. using a wedge of mixed metal bar approx 2 inches X 2 inches by 1/2 inch at the fat end down to about 1/8 inch at the thin end. I placed it in A/P solution which appeared to work but was extreamly slow. I may be able to get the bars rolled paper thin which would help with speeding things up. The second approach was using the shor simplicity system and an add on called the nickleodeon. (dont worry i didnt rush out and buy one, I unfortunately purchased it before i found this forum and hardly ever use it) It seemed to work great for the first 24 hours but then the voltage and amperage reduced to zero and i cant seem to rectify the situation. I am emailing shor this afternoon to get some trouble shooting advice. Does anybody have any experience processing these bars? Any ideas?


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## lazersteve (Jun 4, 2010)

Why not cornflake the bars then process the flakes in AR?

Steve


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## golddigger2 (Jun 4, 2010)

Great idea steve I will try that.


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## 4metals (Jun 4, 2010)

If you have a steady flow of this stuff, why not build a reverberatory furnace and oxidize and slag off the base metals, then you're left with an easy PM mix to clean up.


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## Harold_V (Jun 4, 2010)

4metals said:


> If you have a steady flow of this stuff, why not build a reverberatory furnace and oxidize and slag off the base metals, then you're left with an easy PM mix to clean up.


I'd give that idea a go long before I tried processing with AR. Between the high silver content and the tin, you'd likely end up with one hell of a mess. 

This material is perfect for digestion in nitric, assuming you can allow the nitrate solution to settle, with no filtration (trouble filtering because of tin). I'd cornflake, process with nitric, then incinerate the residues, boil in HCl, then process with AR. With luck, you'd have rhodium as a residue. The incineration and HCl wash would eliminate any problems with filtration. Silver would be recovered with copper. 

Harold


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## HAuCl4 (Jun 4, 2010)

4metals said:


> If you have a steady flow of this stuff, why not build a reverberatory furnace and oxidize and slag off the base metals, then you're left with an easy PM mix to clean up.



I was going to suggest cupellation. Works even in small batches. Leaves a relatively clean gold, silver, other PM button with only traces of base metals. Make sure you add enough silver so that the resulting button is more than 75% silver so that you can go directly to nitric acid treatment of the shot/cornflaked button.

If the volume is big and you want to recover the copper, nickel, etc. as well, then probably a copper cell and much more ellaborate industrial process will be needed. imo. Out of my league.

IMO direct aqua regia treatment with 20% silver content is a recipe for a lot of frustration and possible disaster.


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 4, 2010)

Harold said:


> This material is perfect for digestion in nitric, assuming you can allow the nitrate solution to settle, with no filtration (trouble filtering because of tin). I'd cornflake, process with nitric, then incinerate the residues, boil in HCl, then process with AR. With luck, you'd have rhodium as a residue. The incineration and HCl wash would eliminate any problems with filtration. Silver would be recovered with copper.



Were I to do this, I would do it almost exactly as Harold suggests. The only difference being that, during the melting (cornflaking) stage, I would add enough copper or silver to get the gold percentage down to 25%, or a little less. Assuming you start with 30% gold, I would add 20 grams of copper or silver to each 100 grams of bar weight.


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## Anonymous (Jun 4, 2010)

golddigger2 said:


> Has anyone tried processing mixed metal bars? I have access to an unlimited supply of mixed metal bars containing approx 30% gold, 50% copper,20% silver, nickel, rhodium and tin.



Mind sharing what these bars where used for, the alloy used in the make up has me puzzled.

Best Regards
Gill


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## golddigger2 (Jun 4, 2010)

The mixed metal bars I am refering to are derived from recycled metal from Computer circuit boards which are reverse electroplated and then granulated and melted. A Friend of mine processes the raw products but doesn't understand the refiners art. I am trying to help him out by finding a way to seperate and refine the gold and recover the other metals as well.


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## Anonymous (Jun 4, 2010)

golddigger2 said:


> The mixed metal bars I am refering to are derived from recycled metal from Computer circuit boards which are reverse electroplated and then granulated and melted. A Friend of mine processes the raw products but doesn't understand the refiners art. I am trying to help him out by finding a way to seperate and refine the gold and recover the other metals as well.



You may have over estimated your gold content at 30%, have you had these bars assayed.

Best Regards
Gill


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## goldsilverpro (Jun 4, 2010)

> The mixed metal bars I am refering to are derived from recycled metal from Computer circuit boards which are reverse electroplated and then granulated and melted.



Although I'm not fond of the term, "reverse electroplated", what method is he using? Sulfuric stripping cell? Or, what?

I would think it would be a lot easier to deal with the sludge or powder and not melt it into bars.


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## golddigger2 (Jun 6, 2010)

I am not sure exactly what his process is as he is understandably very secretive about his process. I do know that it is almost completely chemical free. I do know that it is some sort of electroplating system. The metal comes out of the process in granular form and is melted into bars. As we have only been collaborating together for a couple of months he has not given me the details of the process, as he gets to know me a bit more the flow of information should open up a bit. The main aim is to reclaim the gold and copper initially and then as our experience increases try to reclaim the silver and other metals. My experience is mainly with A/P and A/R but I agreed to do some experiments for him to see if I was able to use a chemical process to seperate and eventually purify the pm's.


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## Harold_V (Jun 6, 2010)

Given the information that has come forward, it is my opinion that GSP is on the right track. Melting this material is likely a big mistake. There are pretreatments that could eliminate traces of tin, resulting in a very straight forward processing. I can envision a process whereby there would be no melting until the final product has been produced. 

If your "friend" is reluctant to share any information, let him tough it out alone. I think I can speak for most readers when I say that we are happy to try to help, but none of us are interested in playing games, especially the guessing game. 

Harold


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## golddigger2 (Jun 6, 2010)

Thanks Harold I agree totally. I am sure the information will be forthcoming once he knows me a bit better. He has had a bit of trouble with partnerships in the past and is being a bit overcautious.


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## golddigger2 (Jun 21, 2010)

Just a quick update on how this is going. I was originally trying this in the shor simplicity system which did a pretty good job of deconstructing the bar in to sand like granules. I then evaporated all the liquid off, dried the mixture and incinerated. I have it soaking in nitric as we speak. The next step following Harold's instructions will be to incinerate again and boil in HCL. I will keep you posted.


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## goldenchild (Jun 21, 2010)

golddigger2 said:


> I am not sure exactly what his process is as he is understandably very secretive about his process. I do know that it is almost completely chemical free. I do know that it is some sort of electroplating system. The metal comes out of the process in granular form and is melted into bars. As we have only been collaborating together for a couple of months he has not given me the details of the process, as he gets to know me a bit more the flow of information should open up a bit. The main aim is to reclaim the gold and copper initially and then as our experience increases try to reclaim the silver and other metals. My experience is mainly with A/P and A/R but I agreed to do some experiments for him to see if I was able to use a chemical process to seperate and eventually purify the pm's.



This granular form you speak off. It makes me think... If its fine enough you may want to tell your associate to leave it in granular form and you may get away with putting it into nitric right away to get the gold out. You should test small batches of course. Test test test.


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## golddigger2 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks goldenboy ile do some tests


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## goldenchild (Jun 22, 2010)

golddigger2 said:


> Thanks goldenboy ile do some tests



Its goldenchild but your welcome.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jun 22, 2010)

goldenchild said:


> golddigger2 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks goldenboy ile do some tests
> ...



I thought it was an uptick 1st Goldenchild, then to Goldenboy, Next step Goldenman.... 8)


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## teabone (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm more partial to Goldfinger , but I'm a big Bond fan. :lol:


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## goldenchild (Jun 22, 2010)

teabone said:


> I'm more partial to Goldfinger , but I'm a big Bond fan. :lol:



The names child... goldenchild. DUN NUNT DUUUN DUN NUNT DUUUN DUN NUNT DUN NUNUNT!


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## golddigger2 (Jun 24, 2010)

Today Goldenchild................Tomorrow the world dun dun daaaaaaaaaaaaah


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## Anonymous (Aug 23, 2010)

Hello fellow gold miners!
I too am trying to process mixed metal bars refined from E-Scrap. 
I've got a good bit of it melted down into ingots and have tryed both AR and the Shor Simplicity methods without much luck.
It seems like more trouble than what it's worth and not too cost effective. At least with the AR method I was able to get a small BB. The Simplicity tends to loose amperage with mixed metals and flakes really bad due to (what I'm told) high melting heat generally from torch melting, but I use a Kerr furnace. The Simplicity tends to like metals with a higher gold content.
I have two questions regarding some of the conversation going here.
First: *What is "Cornflaking"?*
Second: What is a "Reverberation Furnace", and how dows it oxidize & remove the base metals as slag?
Thank you,


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## Barren Realms 007 (Aug 23, 2010)

Cornflaking: You melt the metal and pour it into a SS vessel with water and when the meatl hit the water it makes corn flakes. Your metal will digest faster if in small pieces rather than one large piece.


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## 4metals (Aug 23, 2010)

A reverberatory furnace is a furnace used to contact the molten metal with atmospheric oxygen and cause the base metals to oxidize. A combination of specialty fluxes and exposure to the air can remove the majority of the base metals but the melt is not just melt and pour as a typical melt is, the molten metal is exposed to a direct flame for as long as a few hours to effect the oxidation of the base metals. 

If the material is high in silver this method will increase the silver percentage and can cause the aqua regia to be ineffective. 

I have used this type of furnace to remove the majority of copper from sterling silver to make it more silver cell friendly, it can be used for karat gold but only if the resultant alloy is atomized before digestion, otherwise the silver is an issue as it coats the undigested metal.


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