# Smelting 22k+ Gold Dust into Bars 24k HELP



## kularm (Dec 22, 2010)

Hi guys, this is my first post so bare with me, Im asking this question as there is way too much info on this site to let me find what I am after. 

First the situation:
DOnt ask but an opportunity has arisen where we have a good supply of gold dust (assay'd at around 22-23k.) We've done a few trades and we are moving into expanding thigns now. I have a history in Geology which led to sourcing the gold but that is as far as it goes. Now we have been passing our dust through a refinery to turn it into gold bars for transport via air.* Now the problem is the two refineries we have used had a suspiciously high amouth of waste (~1.5%)* which has lost our trust in the process. We now want to do this ourselves, buying equipment and having a dedicated member to do it. 

Ive trawled the net with no help in being able to find a clear tutorial, all ive found are different terms and methods (Aqua Regia and microwave etc). It would be really helpful if someone could post a good few links or explanations on what to purchase and how to remove impurities then turn into bars. We require a detailed explanation for business use so links are prob better to other well detailed threads. We trade 50kg+ of dust a trade and require 10-12kg bars to be made of the highest purity (24k) as this is what our buyer wants and makes it easier to value and put through assay. 

Our last assay of our raw sample had the following attributes:
*% Purity of sample: 94.68% (this needs to be made as pure as possible)
Equivalent carat: +22.68 (same with this...near to 24k needed)*

Im still going to read the threads but require help, sorry for seeming dim about the matter, this opportunity is profitable enough to make us switch from our other jobs.* The one person who shows us great help would be duly rewarded (I wont say how) but be assured it would be good enough to spend a few minutes writing here*. If you are interested then please reply to this thread and also in doing so please pm your email to me so I can contact that one lucky person.

Oh btw is there a method of stamping our company logo, weight, and carat into the said melted bars

Thanks!!!


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## patnor1011 (Dec 22, 2010)

One of our moderators can make you shopping list or calculation on what you need, he can set up your refining place and train your staff. How big were samples you obtained from your business partners which were as you say not properly refined?


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## kularm (Dec 22, 2010)

Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply. Our first two orders were both 47kg of raw material. I was advised by a friend that any loss of material greater than 0.5% would be 'sketchy' and as a result mean that the said company were keeping too much of the final product for themselves (we paid them as well). Our assay state the sample size was 69gm before analysis and 55 gm after (was this what you was after?). Please bare with me if I have not supplied the right info or details.... as stated Im pretty new to this, and unfortunatley I didnt have the benefit of learning with small amounts as I was thrown straight into the deep end lol! Any equipment would only be required for use at most once a month, maybe twice. Initial outlay isnt an issue as we preffer spending more to secure our own trust in the operation.

I never stated this but if there were any books/sites recommended to teach me about gold/other ores from extraction to point of sale I would much appreciate this


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## Oz (Dec 22, 2010)

Maybe it is just me, but something seems odd here if you are asking these questions yet buying and having refined lots of 22K+ gold, 50+ kilos at a shot, at a profit.

If you are serious, give some further details and we have members here that can help. I remain skeptical for the time being.


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## Harold_V (Dec 22, 2010)

It's been said before, and I'll say it again. 

Read Hoke.

That will help you understand the process you must master.

Harold


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## patnor1011 (Dec 22, 2010)

Kularm,
As far as I understand you got 69 gram sample and have pending order for 50+ kilograms of material. Is that correct?
Did you already paid for that 50+ kilograms of dust? 
Your partners - aren't they based in Nigeria, Ghana, Mali or another African state?
If your answer to this questions is yes then you will not need any refining equipment. Material from this states (unless it is not coming through their governments) is generally very pure. Buyers will get exactly pure nothing for their money. 
You need to ask yourself: Why did they contacted me and not large refining and exporting company?


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## eeTHr (Dec 22, 2010)

kularm said:


> DOnt ask but an opportunity has arisen ....





kularm said:


> ...this opportunity is profitable enough to make us switch from our other jobs.





kularm said:


> The one person who shows us great help would be duly rewarded (I wont say how)....





kularm said:


> I didnt have the benefit of learning with small amounts as I was thrown straight into the deep end...





kularm said:


> Initial outlay isnt an issue....




These buzz phrases all sound very familiar in concept.


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## goldenchild (Dec 22, 2010)

This sounded fishy to me also.


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## patnor1011 (Dec 22, 2010)

This thread sounded fishy from first second it appeared here. I just tried to be nice as Kularm might be on sorry end of this scam. He may be just victim not organizer. 
If he is the one pulling strings in behind of this rather common and stupid african gold scam scheme he will not find business here. If he is victim he can stop, take deep breath, count his loss and celebrate that he did not lost more money or life.

My first sig line shows directly what we can see here...


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## joem (Dec 22, 2010)

kularm said:


> Hi guys, this is my first post so bare with me, Im asking this question as there is way too much info on this site to let me find what I am after. *With this opportunity, you are not trying hard enough*
> 
> First the situation:
> DOnt ask *Why not?* but an opportunity has arisen where we have a good supply of gold dust (assay'd at around 22-23k.) *From Where?*We've done a few trades * what did you trade?*and we are moving into expanding thigns now. I have a history in Geology *What history and where? I have a grade ten credit*which led to sourcing the gold but that is as far as it goes. Now we have been passing our dust through a refinery to turn it into gold bars for transport via air.*Can you explain how and which refinery?** Now the problem is the two refineries we have used had a suspiciously high amouth of waste (~1.5%)* which has lost our trust in the process. We now want to do this ourselves, buying equipment and having a dedicated member to do it.
> ...


*And thank you for pulling up popular topics from this forum and creating an opportunity for one lucky enough person. You don't need to pm me, just post your contact information here and I'm sure someone with a professional inquisitor attitude will contact you directly*


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## kularm (Dec 23, 2010)

Ok guys, first of all let me just say how disappointed I am that hardly any help was given, instead my operation was criticised by yourselves. It would have been appropriate to understand that I wasnt trying to sell you guys anything, and we have already traded so this is not a scam. There was no part for you to tell me whether or not you think im being scammed, that is not what I asked of you. For those who failed to understand, I HAVE ALREADY DONE OUR FIRST TRADES AND I AM TRYING TO IMPROVE MY OPERATION! I DONT PLAN TO OR REALLY WANT TO SELL YOU ANYTHING! It is possible for people in this world to obtain resources cheaper than others, THIS DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN IT IS A SCAM! Tbh I use forums alot, not just for this topic, and can I just say how disappointed I am in the feedback given. I would have thought those in a specialist subject would be keen to help and not criticise.

So I ask again, where can I find help in my understanding of refining and smelting. For those who cant understand this with their backwards minds please feel free to ignore this post and go do something else with your lives, those who wish to help, as I have stated I would be very thankful to.


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## kularm (Dec 23, 2010)

Oh and also, for those who dont understand, the source did not contact me directly. I was given an opportunity by a friend who trades with owners of land where mines are based. To some in fact most this would sound like a scam, I would agree, however it is possible for people to still locate resources in these areas. My friend has been trading in the west african territories for at least 30 years so I give her my trust, I am not asking for yours.


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## joem (Dec 23, 2010)

You must realise that if you use text and promises that read like "nigerian money scam" that we all get in our mailboxes every day, people will read it like a scam. Giving straight forward information not hidden behind promises of riches and contact information that is validated will get a real valuable response.


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## qst42know (Dec 23, 2010)

The advice to read Hokes is highly recommended.

This thread covers a similar problem. Inquart to achieve 99%.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=7373&hilit=inquart


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## goldenchild (Dec 23, 2010)

If you indeed have a legitamate trading venture and would like to learn more about the refining process please accept our apologies. But as stated by joem we occassionally get posts with promises of gold and money with little to no effort and can clearly be recognized for the scams they are. While keeping this in mind please also take into consideration that all the information you need is here in the forum somewhere. This is especially true for processing something as simple as high purity gold dust. 

No one will hold your hand and walk you step by step on what you need to do. But if you display that you have at least made an effort to learn both the why and not just the how of the needed processes involded in refining, we will gladly help you. As Harold says "there is no free lunch". Please download and read Hoke's teachings found on patnor's signature line and then we can much better help you.

http://hotfile.com/dl/14623543/1cf7898/Refining_Precious_Metal_Wastes_C11.M_Hoke.pdf.htm


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## qst42know (Dec 23, 2010)

You can use the search function to find a full description of inquarting on the forum.

I would like to see what 50kg of gold dust looks like. How about posting a photo?


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## metatp (Dec 23, 2010)

kularm said:


> Ok guys, first of all let me just say how disappointed I am that hardly any help was given, instead my operation was criticised by yourselves. It would have been appropriate to understand that I wasnt trying to sell you guys anything, and we have already traded so this is not a scam. There was no part for you to tell me whether or not you think im being scammed, that is not what I asked of you. For those who failed to understand, I HAVE ALREADY DONE OUR FIRST TRADES AND I AM TRYING TO IMPROVE MY OPERATION! I DONT PLAN TO OR REALLY WANT TO SELL YOU ANYTHING! It is possible for people in this world to obtain resources cheaper than others, THIS DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN IT IS A SCAM! Tbh I use forums alot, not just for this topic, and can I just say how disappointed I am in the feedback given. I would have thought those in a specialist subject would be keen to help and not criticise.
> 
> So I ask again, where can I find help in my understanding of refining and smelting. For those who cant understand this with their backwards minds please feel free to ignore this post and go do something else with your lives, those who wish to help, as I have stated I would be very thankful to.


WOW. You are sensitive. The information and help you are asking for is free here. If you don't like the response from people trying to protect or alert others on the forum, maybe you should seek for your free help elsewhere. Understand, if it smells and taste like a scam, 99% of the time it is. If your case is one of the 1%, be tolerant of the skepticism you will receive.

Just my two cents,
Tom


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## goldenchild (Dec 23, 2010)

qst42know said:


> You can use the search function to find a full description of inquarting on the forum.



I dont think inquarting would be needed in this case.


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## eeTHr (Dec 23, 2010)

When someone says, "Don't ask where it came from," the standard interpretation of that is, "it's stolen." It can be very dangerous to become involved in any way with stolen gold, especially in the amounts you describe.

When someone says, "You will be rewarded, but I won't say how," that's just too corny to be taken seriously. If someone spent a lot of their time feeding you detailed information, it would be very difficult for them to seek just compensation with your wording of it. And if what you are involved in is illegal, it would be _impossible._

It should be obvious, that when using the types of chemicals, which you know about, and processing quantities of the size that you mention, that a mere superficial knowledge could easily get somebody seriously injured or killed (not to mention the large losses of material possible) with seemingly small processing or equipment errors.

You say that, "initial outlay isn't an issue," but common sense would tell the average person that if he could afford it, he should simply hire a professionsl to set up a refining operation for him, and teach him how to use it, along with all the safety precautions.

So, overall, your story just doesn't float.


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## kularm (Dec 23, 2010)

Look, again I have to say Im not asking you to agree with my story. At the end of the day it is profitable for my self and parties involved, not you, so dont et involved on the business side of thigns or try and convince other people that it is illegal. I could go out and get a proffessional, that would be even more costlier and I still would not understand the full process. I am asking here for a basis of self education, whatever methods I am given I will understand because I will research them further and not get somone to just educate me about one particular process. Oh and also, by intial outlay, from what I have read could be upto 15k-20k which is reasonable, hiring someone might add to that even futher and expose me to time I simply do not want to waste travelling around. If you are not going to help them its simple, keep your mouth shut!


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## jimdoc (Dec 23, 2010)

Look for C.W Ammens book Recovery And Refining of Precious Metals,there should be a link on the forum for a pdf.
If you really want to learn,Chill out before you get banned.

Jim


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## kularm (Dec 23, 2010)

sorry Im not one to be usual of an angry tone, its just when you ask a simple question and get alot of negative feedback for a totally unrelated topic it doesnt help my mood. Ok so Ammens and hoke are a good start, Ill buy their books online tonight. Also Ive read some other posts regarding the gold refining forum pdf. Has anyone got a link to a page with this and any other handbook downloads?

Many thanks


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## kularm (Dec 23, 2010)

qst42know said:


> You can use the search function to find a full description of inquarting on the forum.
> 
> I would like to see what 50kg of gold dust looks like. How about posting a photo?



I dont have a picture but imagine a box/sack around 30x30cmx100cm tall. The dust nuggets about 2-5mm in thickness

and thanks for your link, it does propose a similar query so I shall keep posted on it thanks


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## jimdoc (Dec 23, 2010)

The Internet Archive is a great place to find books,just search all media so it searches in all the sources.There are many books on gold,silver,precious metals,smelting,refining,and more.

http://www.archive.org/index.php

Jim


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## kularm (Dec 23, 2010)

jimdoc said:


> The Internet Archive is a great place to find books,just search all media so it searches in all the sources.There are many books on gold,silver,precious metals,smelting,refining,and more.
> 
> http://www.archive.org/index.php
> 
> Jim



Thanks Jim, done a quick search and found this book
http://www.archive.org/details/metallurgygolda00eissgoog

would this be ideal too or is the book a bit too old? I mean, obviously chemicals and metals dont change with an age of a book, however the practices and methods might?


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## kularm (Dec 23, 2010)

kularm said:


> jimdoc said:
> 
> 
> > The Internet Archive is a great place to find books,just search all media so it searches in all the sources.There are many books on gold,silver,precious metals,smelting,refining,and more.
> ...



Tbh after another few searches I found alot of the given books are old, pre1900...


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## jimdoc (Dec 23, 2010)

The old books are usually the best books.Ammen's book has a more modern approach and shows how to make or setup needed equipment.I can't find a link to it online now,but it is available at Amazon or Barnes and Noble,and is worth buying.

Jim


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## kularm (Dec 23, 2010)

jimdoc said:


> The old books are usually the best books.Ammen's book has a more modern approach and shows how to make or setup needed equipment.I can't find a link to it online now,but it is available at Amazon or Barnes and Noble,and is worth buying.
> 
> Jim



defo will, thanks!


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## Oz (Dec 23, 2010)

I am glad to see that while I was typing this thread took a turn for the better, it was getting out of hand. There has been considerable time spent here debating whether this is a scam or something similar. May I suggest to all that further discussion on that point is counterproductive, enough has been said.

Kularm,
I would ask you to understand that many of us have had scam solicitations on the forum and by the PM feature. Gold does funny things to people. Accurate or not, your post contained many of the hallmarks and key phrases that those scams typically include. If you are doing business in West Africa trading gold I would imagine you have had others warn of the same thing or you have run into it personally. 

As to the help you are looking for. Hoke is one of the best for learning refining in layman's terms but says little on mining ores. Ammen's is good as well and gets into ores a bit more.

There are some here with experience in ores (I have little), but a better description of what you are purchasing is needed for any productive help. Is it all metallic dust and nuggets? Since you have had assays, what are the contaminates that need to be removed?


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## kularm (Dec 23, 2010)

Oz said:


> I am glad to see that while I was typing this thread took a turn for the better, it was getting out of hand. There has been considerable time spent here debating whether this is a scam or something similar. May I suggest to all that further discussion on that point is counterproductive, enough has been said.
> 
> Kularm,
> I would ask you to understand that many of us have had scam solicitations on the forum and by the PM feature. Gold does funny things to people. Accurate or not, your post contained many of the hallmarks and key phrases that those scams typically include. If you are doing business in West Africa trading gold I would imagine you have had others warn of the same thing or you have run into it personally.
> ...



I understand the position of many and I assure you that this is not a scam, you are right I have come across people telling me of scams etc alot recently which was why I got a bit upset when this post started heading that way. Our assay came after we we had the gold dust purified professionally so I really couldnt tell you the contaminates at this stage but from what I was aware of the dust was mostly metallic and went upto small nuggest size, nothing too big. The dust was assayd before being process however my friend had access to the original report and did not send me the copy as I was in a different country, instead sent me basic details regarding the gold itself and not the impurities if you can understand. At that stage my job was to find a buyer and not be involved in processing and buying like I am now.


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## Oz (Dec 23, 2010)

If I understand you correctly, you are buying mine concentrates after a government assay has been done on them. You are then having the mine concentrates professionally refined to 22K+. If you are only wishing to learn how to purify your 22K+ bars to .9995 fine gold, then extraction from mine concentrates can be dropped from the discussion. However knowing the contaminates in your 22K+ is very important. 

If you are buying mine concentrates based on a government assay, I hope you have full confidence in them not taking a bribe. The first thing I would learn if I was in your position is how to assay the mine concentrates yourself before payment to the miners. In this way you have full information as to who is stealing from you in the subsequent processes. You will always know what you have paid for by your own assay results.

It is worth mentioning that if you are handling the mine concentrates yourself that it may be worthwhile to screen your material to save any nuggets that are over say 5-6mm. Raw nuggets of a size to be used in jewelry are one of a kind nature's art, and often sell for more than the gold content spot value.


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## Harold_V (Dec 24, 2010)

kularm said:


> If you are not going to help them its simple, keep your mouth shut!


I understand your frustration, but if you intend to stay on this forum, refrain from making such comments. I take a very dim view of people that can't contain themselves. 

You are asking for something that has taken others months, if not years, to understand. You'd do yourself a favor by following the advice that was dispensed earlier---to start reading Hoke. Do not expect to have anyone tell you, in a meaningful way, everything you need to know to stay out of trouble. It will take you time to learn, just as it has taken the rest of us time to learn. 

Harold


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