# Need Help with Silver



## coachjames13 (Feb 23, 2012)

Hello, I'am trying to refine some Sterling Silver into 99% silver bars,this is a first for me. I've watched tons of videos on Youtube ,also reading as much as I can on theses Forums.What I'm having a problem with is after making Nitric Acid from Potassium Nitrate (Stump Remover) and Sulfric acid (Drain Cleaner) all seem to go pretty well,After dissolving the Sterling I have filtered the liquid using coffee filters as seen on a few videos, Now when I add my clean Copper Wire to get the Silver to fall out of solution. When I add the Copper wire It seems to still be trying to dissolve the wire (Bubbles) and I'm getting a Blackish powder formingon the wire, if I move the Wire the Blackish Substance falls to the bottom of the Jar it's not forming the silver Powered as I seen on the videos.I did dilute the Crystal blue Liquid with about the same amount of Distilled water and Ive added more water thinking maybe the solution is still to strong,but I still get the blackish powder forming and the Bubbling. Ive got about 40 to 50 grams of sterling in this mix and I hope I'm not going to lose it. Can Anyone Help me with this?

Now I'm wondering why I just had to play around hahahah Please Help.


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## Geo (Feb 23, 2012)

the black powder thats dropping should be your silver. silver or gold thats cemented from solution will look black. you can evaporate back to half the volume you have now and then dilute with distilled water again to reduce nitric. this step can be repeated as many times as needed if it is strongly attacking the copper. next time only use the amount of nitric needed for the material or keep adding sterling untill no more will dissolve.


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## coachjames13 (Feb 23, 2012)

Ahhhhh,Ok so the blackish power is silver falling from solution? It looked Silver to whitish on the videos so I was beging to freek out thinking I was going to loose my sterling. So I understand right if it's attacking the wire I should dilute the solution more until I dont see bubbles coming from the copper wire? and does the amount of distilled water have to be perfect meaning if I add to much water the silver wont fall out? 

Thanks alot for your fast reply.


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## Geo (Feb 23, 2012)

well, im not an expert. :lol: but i was told by one you cant dilute too much. i wouldnt add a gallon of water but you can double the volume you have now im sure. if you feel you have added too much its a simple thing to evaporate the water back out. just keep the solution below 100 degrees C and you will not have any problems.


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## coachjames13 (Feb 23, 2012)

Yeah,I just went back outside and Put my Copper wire back in and it was bubbling a bit so I added more water,Its strange because whats forming on the wire is black and I was expecting a whitish powder to form is it ok to leave the wire in the solution while I go to work or should I pull it out while I'm gone?

Once again thanks for your help and fast replies.


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## coachjames13 (Feb 23, 2012)

Well I just looked again and the blackish powder is whitish when it settles on the bottom So I guess everything is going Ok.  Time to go to work :x Thanks for your Help you made my Day.... :lol:


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## butcher (Feb 23, 2012)

coachjames13, 
Just a couple of notes;

Wire is not the best to use in cementing, a larger piece of copper is better buss bar or cut flattened clean copper pipe.

Also home made nitric acid can form silver sulfate (from the sulfuric acid or sulfate salts in solution), silver sulfate is not very soluble at all, and is also hard to convert back to silver metal. So here you may loose a percentage of your silver, distilling the nitric acid would be my suggestion if you use it for silver; this leaves the sulfates out of the equation.


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## coachjames13 (Feb 24, 2012)

Butcher-Thanks for that info, I've learned alot with this experiment and I may lose a few grams during the process. I been trying to find a place that sells Nitric I have a place in town that sells it, but they only deliver to a business and not Residents so I was kind of Bummed out about that and decided to try to make my own. I will say I dont think I will be trying to make my own again it to me is not worth the time involved and the Fumes are a bit much I was doing everything outside and for the most part all went well. I did at one point catch a tiny smell of those fumes and I didnt like that part at all. I will be making a Homemade fume hood I have 15yrs Exp. in the HVAC field so I'm pretty sure I can make a pretty good fume hood and I'll just buy the Nitric and do things the write way the next batch.I'm currently working at a Pawn shop so I get very good prices on Sterling,I'm not refining for resale I'm basically Keeping everything and hoping the price of silver continues to rise.I have melted sterling into sterling Ingots,but I enjoy purifying it so far and I do want to make my own .999 silver bars,after I somewhat master the dissolving part I will then try a silver cell to get the .999  ....So The few grams I lose I will take a paying to learn the process of refining Silver.

Thanks again for you info :lol:


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## coachjames13 (Feb 24, 2012)

One more question, Can I just put the flatted copper pipe in the Jar or does it have to be suspended? Meaning Can I just drop it to the bottom of the jar or should I hang it?


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## 4metals (Feb 24, 2012)

The only part of the copper doing the work is what is obviously exposed to the solution, but hanging it over the side helps when you shake it to drop off the reduced silver clinging to the wire. Just dropping it in the solution makes it harder to recover the undissolved copper from the silver resulting in more copper in your cemented silver. 

For small batches (I often do this to recover silver from spent parting acid) I like to wind the heavy copper wire into a coil like a spring to increase the surface area and hang it over the side of the beaker from each end of the coil so I can give it a good shake to dislodge any cemented silver easily.


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## MysticColby (Feb 24, 2012)

coachjames13 said:


> One more question, Can I just put the flatted copper pipe in the Jar or does it have to be suspended? Meaning Can I just drop it to the bottom of the jar or should I hang it?



Yes, you can. suspending is better as it's easier to remove the copper once completed, but I like to put long pieces in, stretching from the bottom to top, then just pick them out after they stop reacting. I also put thin and nearly-depleted copper pieces in first, wait until they are completely gone, then add new thicker pieces.
yeah, cement silver is more of a gray color than silver. Sometimes I see thicker silver flakes, but that seems to only happen if the cement hasn't fallen away and gets thick. I think it's a good idea to break those up, anyways. copper nitrate gets caught inside cement silver (that's why you can't get more than ~99.4% pure)

I started out making my own nitric (thinking I couldn't buy it and would be cheaper to make it myself). Turns out it was cheaper, but only by like 5%. definitely not worth the hassle. But it sounds like you were successful, and it's a good experiment to have practice with.


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 24, 2012)

Probably the biggest source of contamination in the cemented silver comes from very fine slivers of copper that fall off the copper during the cementation. For each 3.4 oz of silver you cement, 1 oz of copper is dissolved. The slivers mainly occur when the copper has eaten all the way through in areas. The thinner the copper, the more likely this will happen. For this reason, I don't like using copper tubing and, if I do use it, I remove it and put in fresh when it starts getting thin - before holes start appearing in it. Whatever I use, I keep an eye on it.

Whatever copper is used, make sure it's clean and pure. Electrical copper is the purest and most tubing is also quite pure (999). Don't use copper alloys because there could very well be tin in it which will contaminate the silver with metastannic acid. There should be NO solder or other contamination on whatever you use.

In order, starting with the best:
(1) Copper buss bar. It must be clean. Sometimes it is plated with either tin or silver. Do not use the tin plated type. Most is 1/4" thick and varies from 1" to 6" wide. Most has holes in it. It will last a long time.
(2) Large solid copper wire. I wouldn't use less than 8 gauge (1/8" in diameter) and I prefer at least 2 gauge (1/4").
(3) Copper tubing. It has 2 problems. Silver will cement on the inside of it and it slivers easily, due to it's being thin. I usually use straight pieces with no dents and don't flatten them. I use a long bottle brush to get any silver on the inside.
(4) Stranded copper wire or finer solid wire - the worst. It slivers easily and it can it be quite difficult to separate all the silver from the wire.

The best copper I have ever used came from a large transformer. The copper was in slabs about 3/4" x 3" x 24". The transformer had been incinerated, so it took awhile to clean the slabs. When they were clean, they seemed to last forever.


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## coachjames13 (Feb 24, 2012)

Well I do a lot of Metal Detecting and I have a few Copper bus Bars . I do some detecting in a place that use to be a military Housing and is now a Park I find copper everywhere, I guess they used a lot of Copper in old houses , I will use them after I make a Fume Hood made. That's my Plan for this weekend Maybe I'll post some pics and show My progress as I go.

Thanks Everyone for Your Comments and Help....You guys are Great


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