# boiling



## andees78 (Aug 26, 2010)

hello
do i have to buy a heat resistent beaker for boiling? cant i boil in any thick glass jar?


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## martyn111 (Aug 26, 2010)

What are you trying to boil?
Boiling will cause losses in your refining / recovery attempts.
If you mean that you are going to heat your solutions then heat resistant glass is advised.
The reason glass shatters when you heat it is because the glass heats and expands at different rates due to differing thickness of glass throughout the vessel, one way to avoid this or at least reduce the tendancy for the glass to shatter is to use a sand bath, the sand will heat more evenly and so heat the glass/ solution more evenly.
You could always use old glass coffee pots but be carefull to choose one with a plastic handle rather than a metal handle which could be destroyed by the chemicals you are using for refining.


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## glorycloud (Aug 26, 2010)

Many of us cheap people use old coffee pots in good shape found at you
local goodwill store. I also found a teflon coated electric frying pan there 
that I use to provide the heat and to catch any liquid should my cheap coffee
pot have a catastrophic failure. 8)


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## andees78 (Aug 26, 2010)

hello martyn
i need to boil,water, ammonium hydroxide, and hcl during the washing of gold foils and powder.
cant i use the empty jars from jam, olives...etc?
please explaun more about the sand bath.
thanks


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## Barren Realms 007 (Aug 26, 2010)

Empty jam and olive jars don't stand up too well to the heat, they will crack at the bottom when too much heat is applied too quick. They are good for using in other parts of your process.

The sand bath is used because you can heat it up and put your glassware in it and it will heat your vessel more evenly with less chance of cracking because of direct contact with burner. If you don't have that a piece of cardboard under your pot will help some. Just don't start a fire.


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## philddreamer (Aug 26, 2010)

Barren, it seems to me that Andees might take the sand method due to not having access to heat resistance glass. In case of brakeage, how will he recover values? What would be the best way to recover them from the sand? That would be of great help for him, if he knew ahead how to do so.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Aug 26, 2010)

philddreamer said:


> Barren, it seems to me that Andees might take the sand method due to not having access to heat resistance glass. In case of brakeage, how will he recover values? What would be the best way to recover them from the sand? That would be of great help for him, if he knew ahead how to do so.



That is a good question I don't use one yet but I plan to in the future and the thought I have given to that problem is if the gold is in solution and the glass breaks he can filter it out thru a coffee filter the sand should not go thru the filter. If it is flakes and the like he will most likely have to dissolve the gold in the sand and then filter out like above. The jars I have had break luckily have stayed together long enough for me to transfer fluids wilt just a drop or 2 of loss.


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## dtectr (Aug 26, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> philddreamer said:
> 
> 
> > Barren, it seems to me that Andees might take the sand method due to not having access to heat resistance glass. In case of brakeage, how will he recover values? What would be the best way to recover them from the sand? That would be of great help for him, if he knew ahead how to do so.
> ...


 Hoke says that a water bath, basically a double boiler can be used to boil, 1/2 inch of water in nonreactive pan or container. it also keeps you from scorching the area directly over the flame or element.
Size doesn't matter (how many times have i said THAT!  :lol: ) it just needs to have enough volume available to contain a spill if breakage does occur. it takes a little longer to get up to boiling that way, but if anyone has made a custard, pudding or cheesecake its the same principle.
I know - I'm a SNAG (sensitive New Age Guy) Ha! :roll:


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## martyn111 (Aug 26, 2010)

To answer your question about the sand bath andees78, as dtectr explained with the water in a non reactive vessel, the sand bath is the same principle but you would use sand in place of the water. By using sand you can raise the temperature further than with water so be careful, hot acids or bases are dangerous, you may want to try first with a water bath and if that doesn't enable you to reach the required temperature you could switch to a sand bath.


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## andees78 (Aug 27, 2010)

thanks martyn111 ,glorycloud, Barren Realms 007 , philddreamer, dtectr . for helping me.
i havent started yet. am only gathering e-scrap, chemicals, equipments, and knowledge. i dont want to start spending money on anything until i know i can do it. if i can make it to a gold button i would be glad, and i cant do it without the help of the experts here. grateful.


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## goldenchild (Aug 27, 2010)

If you dont have access to heat resistant glass, you may be able to use the technique I believe detectr was trying to describe. 

I think this may have been before I had my boiling flasks but a while back I did an experiment on NOx gas suppression. Since I didnt have a boiling flask, and a coffee pot would need to hold way more liquid than the experiment called for, I improvised. Here is the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PhE7GIUrxA You will see that later in the vid I have a normal glass jar in a coffee pot with an inch or 2 of water inside. You can acheive boiling temps this way. 

I would favor this method over the sand bath because of what phil and Barren alluded to. If there was a break in your jar you would have to recover your values from the sand. If it was say HAuCl4 you would probably be able to filter it through the sand. A pain but, if it were say gold foils/powders, I would put this in the nightmare category.


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