# Tax time



## Irons (Oct 30, 2007)

The IRS considers Gold to be a collectible and sets a capital Gains tax of 28% on profits from the sale. There are some exemptions. For example, legal tender US Gold coins are tax exempt.
There are exemptions for unrefined precious metal concentrates.

Perhaps some of our legally astute members can provide some details.

The end of the year is coming up soon. Time to sort things out.

And then, there's the Governor's piece of the action....


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## Harold_V (Oct 30, 2007)

Just figured out your avatar.

*Gabby Hayes*

Nice touch!

Harold


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## Irons (Oct 30, 2007)

Harold_V said:


> Just figured out your avatar.
> 
> *Gabby Hayes*
> 
> ...



I knew someone would be old enough to remember him.

Dag nabbit!!!


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## Anonymous (Apr 12, 2008)

Dear gabby I thought it was the iyotolla komainnee


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## rebies (Mar 30, 2014)

Hello everyone. I am a new member today, been doing tons of reading over the past few weeks on scrapping computer parts. Good work here!

I am very interested in the tax side of things as well. Anyone in the US who has a business in the gold refining business, I would love to hear it. Obviously having to pay 28% on you take is a huge hit to being able to consider this.

It does look like the tax rate in the US is 28% for precious metals, based on an article I just read on about.com. I was hoping gold would fall into the long-term capital gains rates, but it appears the government considers gold a Collectible Asset.


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## nickvc (Mar 30, 2014)

I would have assumed that most tax agencies would view any metals of a trading business as stock and value it as such, this is put into profit side of the business which is then debited by any expenses and costs, should there be a surplus, ie profit, then tax is due on that.


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## rebies (Mar 30, 2014)

This is a good link from the IRS I found today...

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p544/ch02.html#en_US_2013_publink100072542



> Precious Metals and Stones, Stamps, and Coins
> 
> Gold, silver, gems, stamps, coins, etc., are capital assets except when they are held for sale by a dealer. Any gain or loss from their sale or exchange generally is a capital gain or loss. If you are a dealer, the amount received from the sale is ordinary business income.


The "dealer" is an interesting thing and from my limited knowledge how the government likes to treat companies that primarily deal in that business. So if you were a 100% gold refining shop I think that would make you a "dealer" as that is your business. And oh-my taxed at insane regular rates. But I presume they are capital assets if your business does something entirely different. Again I'm not a lawyer but I have researched "dealers" when it comes to the IRS before.


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## necromancer (Mar 30, 2014)

28% wow, puts a whole new meaning to:

i'm from the government and here to help..........


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## FrugalRefiner (Mar 30, 2014)

Keep in mind that Irons wrote the original post in 2007. Tax rates on capital gains have been much more favorable in recent years. My capital gains were taxed at 0% in 2013. Your situation may be different.

Dave


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## Palladium (Mar 30, 2014)

Of all the things a refiner should discuss i would leave this subject alone like the plague. I will tell you that if your a refiner and you have structured your business structure properly you are not considered a precious metals dealer. You are a recycler just like if you owned a scrap yard were you bought alum or steel. Now if you sell and buy gold you will fall into a different class.


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## Irons (Mar 30, 2014)

Palladium said:


> Of all the things a refiner should discuss i would leave this subject alone like the plague. I will tell you that if your a refiner and you have structured your business structure properly you are not considered a precious metals dealer. You are a recycler just like if you owned a scrap yard were you bought alum or steel. Now if you sell and buy gold you will fall into a different class.



:mrgreen:

If you store your Gold at a Bank, it has to be reported to the IRS, if you keep it elsewhere, you don't.


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## Irons (Mar 30, 2014)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Keep in mind that Irons wrote the original post in 2007. Tax rates on capital gains have been much more favorable in recent years. My capital gains were taxed at 0% in 2013. Your situation may be different.
> 
> Dave



Thanks for bringing up that point. 8)


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## GotTheBug (Mar 30, 2014)

Seems like a good idea to take some buttons to a local place and trade for coins, then maybe into dollars later if you need too.


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## Pantherlikher (Mar 31, 2014)

Looking at this from the hobby side of this. Taxman may want to think in a different manner if the hobby has gains and is of the shinny metals.

B.S.
...Someday might have this delema to face...


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## rickbb (Mar 31, 2014)

My capital gains taxes has remained at zero for my entire life. 

Works that way when you have no capital to make any gains, (or losses for that matter).


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## necromancer (Mar 31, 2014)

```
i buy my scrap (dont pay tax)
i take the good stuff off my scrap and remove the PM's (dont pay tax)
i never sell my PM's, but do sell my scrap (dont pay tax)
if i ever get asked to pay tax (i wont pay tax)  :lol: 
to many taxes (i hate tax)
```

message coded so its not indexed by search bots


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## Digitaria (Mar 31, 2014)

lol


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## gold4mike (Apr 1, 2014)

I think I read somewhere that, if you buy and sell US Silver and Gold Eagles they are treated differently since they are legal tender. Most of my stored bullion is 1964 and earlier 90% US Silver coinage.

Since I never sell any of it I don't have to report a gain (or loss) on it anyhow, regardless of how it's classified.


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## rickbb (Apr 3, 2014)

" it ain't against the law until you get caught".

That guy from the Moonshiners show.


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