# Silver from X-ray film?



## ibycus (Mar 9, 2016)

I have access to a small (roughly 4' stack) of exposed xray film (I work at a vet clinic and the film is left over from the days pre CR), thinking about trying to recover the silver from it. 

Thoughts on the easiest way to do this? I read up on it a while back, but didn't retain much of what I read. 

Really just doing it for a hobby.


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## patnor1011 (Mar 9, 2016)

You do have some reading to go through. Everything is already here.

http://goo.gl/sDkfqF


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 9, 2016)

ibycus said:


> I have access to a small (roughly 4' stack) of exposed xray film (I work at a vet clinic and the film is left over from the days pre CR), thinking about trying to recover the silver from it.
> 
> Thoughts on the easiest way to do this? I read up on it a while back, but didn't retain much of what I read.
> 
> Really just doing it for a hobby.


I can approximate the value with a little information.

Is the film developed by wet chemistry or by heat (dry)?

If by wet chemistry, is the film developed (black) or just exposed (green, usually)? 

What are the dimensions of the sheets?

Is the 4' stack just film only, or is there paper also? Since all medical x-ray I've ever seen is .007" thick, a 4' stack of nothing but film only would contain about 6000 sheets.

I might mention that recovering the silver from x-ray film is one of the most difficult types of refining. Lots of labor and lots of chemicals and equipment. If the film is the "wet" type and there are 6000 sheets and the sheets are 8" X 10", there would be approximately 170 pounds of film. Developed "wet" x-ray film contains about 0.1 tr.oz. of silver per pound. For 170#, that's 17 oz, or $260 total value at today's spot. If you could find a local buyer, you might get 1/2 of that but, considering all the work, etc., to refine it yourself, that's a very good deal.


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## ibycus (Mar 9, 2016)

goldsilverpro said:


> ibycus said:
> 
> 
> > I have access to a small (roughly 4' stack) of exposed xray film (I work at a vet clinic and the film is left over from the days pre CR), thinking about trying to recover the silver from it.
> ...



Dimentions are variable, the majority (I think) are about 16" X 20" ish (from memory, haven't measured recently). Film is developed by wet chemistry, there are definitely some envelopes in there too (the 4' stack is a guesstimate based on the size of the shelf they are sitting on). 

Not too worried about the work, more than anything just a game. Like the idea of making 'something from nothing' type of thing,


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## rickbb (Mar 10, 2016)

With such a small amount of film you will be disappointed at the small amount of silver you will get from it. A 4" stack, my guess is less than an ounce.

But if you just want to learn, read up and have at it.


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## solar_plasma (Mar 10, 2016)

He didn't write 4" but 4', which means 4 feet. With the yields Chris provided I count 68 ounces.

ibycus, it it were me, I would search for the keywords: washing machine silver x-ray :lol: 8)

or better start reading just here: http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=19756&start=20#p204212


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## rickbb (Mar 11, 2016)

OK, put my glasses on and it is indeed 4 feet. My bad.


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## ibycus (Mar 11, 2016)

solar_plasma said:


> He didn't write 4" but 4', which means 4 feet. With the yields Chris provided I count 68 ounces.
> 
> ibycus, it it were me, I would search for the keywords: washing machine silver x-ray :lol: 8)
> 
> or better start reading just here: http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=19756&start=20#p204212



Interesting read. Does the bleach and lye solution yield metallic silver directly? (Obviously mixed with the other 'sludge'). 

If it does, Not sure what the sodium carbonate is for... Maybe breakdown the cellulose?


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## solar_plasma (Mar 11, 2016)

I haven't read all threads about how to process x-ray films, because I have none and probably never will get any (that's your job to read them all). But after just reading one other thread, searching for hypochlorite and x-ray, I am pretty sure, silver chloride will be formed. Soda ash is used to convert it to silver metal, CO2 and NaCl by heating. Good luck and I hope you will get shiny 2 kg 8) 

Be aware of the safety, NaOH is no fun, it makes your skin to soap within seconds. Goggles AND full face shielding, water resistant clothes and boots, gloves!!! Wear the clothes in a way that no spill can run into the inside! Have water near you in case of accident! Have mild vinegar solution near you to neutralize skin! Don't be alone, when working with big amounts! Don't breath vapors!

Remember: acid and alkali burning is just like burning with fire, which means, if more than 5% skin (the areal of your hand) is burned, you can get a shock/acute circulatory collapse. A shock is always potenially life threatening and you need to call the ambulance.

I always say, the amounts of chemicals are an important factor of risc - if not the most important one. 100 ml carefully handled can't scare me in any way, a wash maschine full of NaOH can easily kill you. 200L with possible leakage and I would not approach it without full type 6 hazmat suit and explosimeter.


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## ibycus (Mar 12, 2016)

solar_plasma said:


> Be aware of the safety, NaOH is no fun, it makes your skin to soap within seconds. Goggles AND full face shielding, water resistant clothes and boots, gloves!!! Wear the clothes in a way that no spill can run into the inside! Have water near you in case of accident! Have mild vinegar solution near you to neutralize skin! Don't be alone, when working with big amounts! Don't breath vapors!
> 
> Remember: acid and alkali burning is just like burning with fire, which means, if more than 5% skin (the areal of your hand) is burned, you can get a shock/acute circulatory collapse. A shock is always potenially life threatening and you need to call the ambulance.
> 
> I always say, the amounts of chemicals are an important factor of risc - if not the most important one. 100 ml carefully handled can't scare me in any way, a wash maschine full of NaOH can easily kill you. 200L with possible leakage and I would not approach it without full type 6 hazmat suit and explosimeter.



Don't worry, worked with lots of nasty chemicals at very high concentrations in the past, pretty comfortable with the required safety precautions. Also not going to work in large quantities (as it's just a hobby, doesn't really matter if it takes me 6 months to process the batch I have).


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## nickvc (Mar 12, 2016)

Check out any of Manuels posts about silver he has some good ideas and a good knowledge of the processes, GSP also knows his stuff so any posts about silver recovery from X-rays with their names are worth reading.
Good luck and happy reading.


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## jamal (Apr 19, 2016)

I did some x ray film with naoh and mixed the mud with soda ash then incinerated it til all gray color and dry .
I got one kilo of dry mud but only about 200 grams of silver .
can you tell me what l DID WRONG


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 19, 2016)

jamal said:


> I did some x ray film with naoh and mixed the mud with soda ash then incinerated it til all gray color and dry .
> I got one kilo of dry mud but only about 200 grams of silver .
> can you tell me what l DID WRONG


What weight of film did you start with? Was it developed (black picture) or undeveloped (solid green, usually)? Medical or industrial x-ray? Developed medical x-rays average about 6.6 grams of silver per kg.


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## jamal (Apr 19, 2016)

hi gsp
it was fifty kilos or about a hundred pounds of just developed litho film with large clear sheet about 25 inches by 30 inches and they had small size developed sheets taped on them which I separated by hand .
I only did the small sheets which had twenty to ninety percent black and weighted ten kilos .
I used ten percent naoh and decanted the next morning then added fifteen percent soda ash and incinerated till light brown to yellow color then mixed with fifty percent borax .
thank you gsp


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 19, 2016)

jamal said:


> hi gsp
> it was fifty kilos or about a hundred pounds of just developed litho film with large clear sheet about 25 inches by 30 inches and they had small size developed sheets taped on them which I separated by hand .
> I only did the small sheets which had twenty to ninety percent black and weighted ten kilos .
> I used ten percent naoh and decanted the next morning then added fifteen percent soda ash and incinerated till light brown to yellow color then mixed with fifty percent borax .
> thank you gsp


There are 2 different litho thicknesses - 7 mils = ~0.178mm, and 4 mils = ~0.10mm. If the litho averages 50% black, 0.10mm film will run about .14 tr.oz. silver/pound or 9.6g/kg. 50% coverage of .178mm film would run about 5.5g/kg. At 10 kg, this would be 96g and 55g, respectively, depending on the film thickness. 

I assume you melted the silver. If you got 200grams from 10kg, it seems you recovered at least twice as much as you should have. Something is wrong somewhere. Only 10kg of undeveloped 4 mil litho or solid black developed 4 mil litho would give you close to 200g.

The values I use are based on about 6000 assays I performed over a 4 year period, using the Volhard titration method. About 2000 of these were on litho film, representing about 10,000,000 pounds, or more. The assays were all proven by actual yields. The figures don't lie. See the chart on this link. 
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=7361&p=66841&hilit=film+chart#p66841

Note: I was just thinking of the possibility that the film you have is a special custom litho that contains more silver. However, after assaying 10 million pounds of litho, I never saw anything like that.


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## jamal (Apr 19, 2016)

hi GSP as I mentioned the total weight was fifty kilos but after I separated the small developed sheets from from the large clear ones I ended up with ten kilos of the black sheets and forty kilos of large clear empty ones and by the way the they are the 7 and the 4 thicknesses .
thank you GSP


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 19, 2016)

jamal said:


> hi GSP as I mentioned the total weight was fifty kilos but after I separated the small developed sheets from from the large clear ones I ended up with ten kilos of the black sheets and forty kilos of large clear empty ones and by the way the they are the 7 and the 4 thicknesses .
> thank you GSP


If I understand you fully, that still doesn't explain how you got 2 to 4 times more silver than you should have gotten.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wouldn't be a bad idea to post a picture of the melted recovered silver button.


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## jamal (Apr 19, 2016)

I am working on another batch with the same weight and just incinerated it couple of hours ago and I plan on melting it tomorrow and I will post it afterwords .
thanks GSP


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## rickbb (Apr 19, 2016)

The large clear sheets you speak of are just clear mylar, not litho film. They are just used as carriers to hold the litho film negatives in position to burn a printing plate with. They have no value other than as recycled plastic.


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## jamal (Apr 19, 2016)

I totally agree with you and that is why I did not process them I only processed the small silver bearing sheets .
any idea of the percentage of silver in one kilo or two pounds of dried mud .


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 19, 2016)

jamal said:


> I totally agree with you and that is why I did not process them I only processed the small silver bearing sheets .
> any idea of the percentage of silver in one kilo or two pounds of dried mud .


No idea. Too many variables.


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