# What coating is used on Circuit boards?



## Cali408 (Jan 27, 2011)

Does anyone know the coating which coats the circuit boards.

Its color is green. If i could find a substance which dissolves the surface, i could obtain all the gold on the Boards. Probably Wishful thinking :twisted:


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## Claudie (Jan 27, 2011)

You need to read more. This subject has been covered here before. There is even a video showing the process if you will only look for it....
lazersteves signature line is a great place to start. Follow the links you find there, you'll be glad you did....


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## Cali408 (Jan 27, 2011)

Claudie, your information was not helpful one of one percent. I have searched, and found NOTHING, Hence the reason why i asked the question. The time and effort you put forward 'trying' to school me, you could of pointed me in the right direction or just answered the question with a simple one word answer. There are thousands of comments and replies on here. A key word would have to be entered in order to obtain the correct posting. Now i am writing this response, which is considered a waste of my time. I came to this website for useful information, and the opportunity to ask a question if i cannot find the answer. If you CANNOT answer the question, then please dont respond. That way, your time, nor mine is wasted. Thanks 

V/R


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## stihl88 (Jan 27, 2011)

You didn't search hard enough, the information is available if you search properly.

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4357&p=37276&hilit=caustic+soda#p37276


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## Claudie (Jan 27, 2011)

I DID point you in the right direction. Lazersteves signature line. If you're to lazy to click it, that's not my problem. If you do later get the energy, there are some wonderful videos there that I'm sure you will benefit from. Removing the solder mask is a short video, but it's still very educational. It would be worth the trip, go check it out! 
BTW, I didn't mean to waste your time.... :roll:


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## Platdigger (Jan 27, 2011)

I found this, but I must say I don't like the attitude you took with Claudie.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=6666&p=59482&hilit=board+coating#p59482


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## bigjohn (Jan 27, 2011)

You might not want to lash out on people here. Nobody HAS to help you, if someone takes time to give you a reply consider yourself lucky! Everything you need to know is on this fourn if you searched and found nothing I would not lash out at the person who points you in the right direction.


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## Oz (Jan 27, 2011)

Let’s all slow up a bit here.

Cali408, you have been here for 3 days. Claudie did send you to the best place to find what you were looking for as well as identifying that it was a video that you wished to look for there. Had he just answered your question with a “1 word answer” as you stated, it would have left you uninformed. Instead, by sending you to the video you would have learned much that (being new) you were unaware of that you should know about the process as well.

I would suggest you watch the video, then if you still have questions come back and ask. Let us know you have seen the video, and what you still need to know.

I will also say that if you find the way you receive help here is not to your satisfaction, simply go somewhere else to learn refining. None of us are getting paid to help you. As to the cost of your time, yes, time is valuable. Only you can choose how to spend it, but remember that we have the same choice to make when deciding whether to help someone or not as well.


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## Palladium (Jan 27, 2011)

Platdigger said:


> I found this, but I must say I don't like the attitude you took with Claudie.
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=6666&p=59482&hilit=board+coating#p59482



Seems to be rash of that going around here lately.


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## joem (Jan 27, 2011)

Palladium said:


> Platdigger said:
> 
> 
> > I found this, but I must say I don't like the attitude you took with Claudie.
> ...



My Maw used to say:
You leave the door open and the flies will get in"
and yes we all called her Maw, even my friends and all the neighbourhood kids did too,


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## Harold_V (Jan 28, 2011)

Cali408 said:


> Claudie, your information was not helpful one of one percent. I have searched, and found NOTHING, Hence the reason why i asked the question. The time and effort you put forward 'trying' to school me, you could of pointed me in the right direction or just answered the question with a simple one word answer. There are thousands of comments and replies on here. A key word would have to be entered in order to obtain the correct posting. Now i am writing this response, which is considered a waste of my time. I came to this website for useful information, and the opportunity to ask a question if i cannot find the answer. If you CANNOT answer the question, then please dont respond. That way, your time, nor mine is wasted. Thanks
> 
> V/R


Listen, pal----*we don't take kindly to folks with your attitude on this forum. *
While you've already had this issue addressed by a moderator, I'm going to put your head in a noose. I have no tolerance for rude people that have an entitlement attitude. Post an apology for your less than necessary attack, and get a better attitude about being here. If that isn't forthcoming, I'll see to it that you never ask another question. You have until 10:00 Friday (January 28th) evening to accomplish the task.

When you are on this forum, treat is as if it is a prized possession. There is no other place on the net that you can uncover the kind of information made available to you on this forum. We are all strictly volunteers---with a combined experiences that range up to 100 years--often sharing information that was hard won. We owe you nothing. Show due respect or hit the road. 

Do we have an understanding?

Harold


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## Cali408 (Jan 28, 2011)

Here comes the gang. "you picked on our own,now we have to defend them, no matter what" attitude...

I asked a simple question. A simple answer would have been helpful. Instead, I get the answer " you need to read better" "Go look at Laser Steves Signature"

If all your members came here asking questions, and the simpleton answer is go look at Laser steves signature, your membership would be dropping like flies, as ALL QUESTIONS have been answered over and over again. This about that. Why dont you just make it a requirement to watch "LASERSTEVES" video before becoming a member. 

I didnt see any of you defending me by the rude reply which is what started all of this. And by the way, If you think my reply was rude, then life must be very hard on you guys, especially HAROLD V. Your response was a childish one, to say the least. You can keep your noose, as too many of my people have already been hung by them.

No need to stay on this forum, as there are many sites with useful information. refining.com has thousands of expert advice. Wasted time downloading the new capacitor I found on a Motorola Circuit Board...lol...

And to HAROLD V. I can access this site anytime I want, as well as ask questions. I have access to hundreds of computers at my disposal... thanks for the empty threat though, it made me laugh. I am not saying I will do this, but, if you piss someone off enough, with your "legend in your own mind" attitude, consequences can happy that will crash your whole system. DO WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING?

Yes, we certainly do. If you return under another alias and have manners, you will remain. If you return with the same attitude, you will be bannned, just as you just were. We do not tolerate wiseguys here. 

I will forward a copy of your threat to disrupt this forum to your ISP (174.61.143.234 and 150.192.0.4). I will also file a report with the FBI advising them that you have threatened terrorist acitivities. I fully expect the Army will be thrilled with your abuse of their system. 

Harold

Claudie, I didnt mean to be rude, and after reading my response, Though it was very very mild, it was somewhat uncalled for. So in that respect, I apologize.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 28, 2011)

OHHH I hear the ice cracking...


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## Palladium (Jan 28, 2011)

If i'm reading this right the traffic is coming off of a military network at Fort Lewis in Tacoma, Washington. Shouldn't be hard for the men in black to follow the digital trail from there. :twisted:


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## nickvc (Jan 28, 2011)

Palladium said:


> If i'm reading this right the traffic is coming off of a military network at Fort Lewis in Tacoma, Washington. Shouldn't be hard for the men in black to follow the digital trail from there. :twisted:


 

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

I love this place it's a real eye opener as to how many fields of expertise are displayed when the forum is threatened. Perhaps if newbies understood the various backgrounds that many of our senior members come from they would be a little less belligerent and a bit more respectful.


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## Harold_V (Jan 28, 2011)

If you dig a little deeper, there's an implication to an Army installation in Arizona as well, although I expect this one is coming from Fort Lewis, as you suggested. 

He picked the wrong thing to say on the net as far as I'm concerned. I've already forwarded a copy of his threat to his ISP, and asked for disciplinary action. My next course of action is to contact the FBI and file a report, providing all the known information. I expect the Army takes a dim view of their personnel making terrorist threats. 

To think that this moron could have prevented all of this by just having some manners and accepting the lead that was provided by Claudie. 

We've had a flood of readers of late that have an entitlement attitude and won't do the least bit to help themselves. Something has to change or the forum won't be worth attending.

Thanks for your comments, Ralph. 

Harold


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## Anonymous (Jan 28, 2011)

Harold, a threat is telling someone a noose will be put around someones neck...

Also, there were no threats which i wrote. i simply informed you that your threatening words have reactions. that others might take offensive and react in a way you would expect, especially after telling this youll put their head in a noose.

BTW, I registered on goldforum during my lunch hour at work. That's why you have the IP address. No abuse there as my last comment was sent from home. Good luck wasting tax payers money... Im sure the FBI would be very interested. They have fun investigating website arguements. More power to you!


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## Palladium (Jan 28, 2011)

I think you might be wrong but hey, good luck with explaining anything about how their isp popped up here to the government. You new isp may come from Leavenworth. lol


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## Oz (Jan 28, 2011)

Cali408/Justme, 

I’m going to simplify this for you hopefully. 

You found this site in a Google search or by some other method. In doing a search for the information that you desired you found this wonderful resource we call the forum (our opinion as to the wonderful part of course). When you clicked on that search result, thinking that it “may” have had the answer to the question/questions you had, you were disappointed by what was presented to you. This happens often when doing a search, but most people just move on to the next search result if what they find on the first click is not what they want. 

You on the other hand, have chosen to argue against what you have found, stating it is insufficient, and you are demanding it is made right NOW. Come on, give me a break, why could you not just go to the next result that “may” have given you the instant gratification you desired? All of us just move on if we find a place not to our liking, no one is trying to force you to stay here. Nothing against you personally, but I could do without the hassle of replying to these things.

So far (from what I have seen) you have chosen to argue with what you have received by your search. I’m sorry, but that strikes me as a bit silly. If you had paid us for services rendered, you may have had a gripe if it did not meet your satisfaction. But we all do this for free.

I will not bother looking up who you are as others have done a thorough job of it by now. But you have said enough here already that there is little doubt in my mind that you are in government services in some capacity. Lunch break or not, your CO will not be entertained having to answer questions caused by your actions and the consequences you will personally reap pursuing this.

Do us both the favor of saying goodbye and good riddance. Find your answers somewhere else where they tell you what you wish to hear, how you like to hear it, for free or fee.

PS; Seriously, get a life if you have nothing better to do than complain about your Google result not meeting your satisfaction. If you really feel put out, I would gladly forward this thread to your CO if you wish so he/she understands what trauma you are going through of late.


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## Harold_V (Jan 28, 2011)

Justme said:


> Harold, a threat is telling someone a noose will be put around someones neck...


My comments to you were explicit and to the point. That's how we operate on this forum that you find so distasteful. I made it perfectly clear what I meant by the noose around your neck, right down to detailing what it would take for you to get back in the good graces of this forum. You chose, instead, to blow your one chance. None of us will forget that.



> Also, there were no threats which i wrote. i simply informed you that your threatening words have reactions. that others might take offensive and react in a way you would expect, especially after telling this youll put their head in a noose.


You can save that for the court you're likely to face. 



> BTW, I registered on goldforum during my lunch hour at work. That's why you have the IP address. No abuse there as my last comment was sent from home. Good luck wasting tax payers money... Im sure the FBI would be very interested. They have fun investigating website arguements. More power to you!


When I banned your registration, I banned by name only. I left the door open for you to return and comply with our simple regulations---behaving as an adult, and not allowing your testosterone to control your reactions. You chose, instead, to escalate. You don't appear to have adult judgment, choosing, instead, to behave like a high school bully. That doesn't work here. 

Having been called away for a lengthy phone call, my work was interrupted, but I will now ban you by your ISP addresses. If you return, I will ban you again. You are not welcome here, nor will you find satisfaction in being here. We have kept a tight reign on our readers and have a great bunch of people that have respect for one another. You obviously have no concept of that kind of interaction, and will not fit with our readers. Please do not return. What can you possibly hope to gain when you have shown your inability to get along with our good readers?

Harold


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## joem (Jan 28, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> We've had a flood of readers of late that have an entitlement attitude and won't do the least bit to help themselves. Something has to change or the forum won't be worth attending.
> 
> Harold


Make it a pay site. Even a minimal 10 cents would be too much trouble for these "entitled" types and with all the members here it would certainly cover the cost to operate. Even in my not so long ago days when I started on this forum I donated because the value here is worth it.


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## AuMINIMayhem (Jan 28, 2011)

Wow... WTF?

I say it's time to lock the doors. :roll: 

I'm seeing a lot of this all over the boards lately. I usually pop in and out every few months, because I have a lot of other things going on, but I've never seen the forums be as bombarded with rude, brash, narcissistic individuals as I have this past venture.

I wish there was a function where I could only see posts by people I have in my own personal list.. :twisted: 

The board would pretty much be chopped down to posts by Noxx, Harold, Lazersteve, GSP, Palladium, Irons and a few others.. :mrgreen: 

If it comes to a vote, sign me up for a pay site. I think it's a good idea. 8) You wouldn't believe how quickly that would eliminiate a lot of the riff-raff. 

Derek


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## glondor (Jan 28, 2011)

I would pay to play as well fwiw. We live in a society of instant gratification. I WANT IT NOW!!!! Many cannot understand why they cannot have it NOW. They feel it is a right. They have never been to the school of hard knocks or chose to be absent. I fear that if much more bad behavior continues many here who know their a$$ from a hole in the ground will just not bother. Us newbies will have to school ourselves. I do not want to go to school with out a teacher. Give Harold_V a raise.


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## Ocean (Jan 28, 2011)

Pay site.

$5/year is not too much for me.


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## jimdoc (Jan 28, 2011)

I think a pay site will make these guys feel more entitled to have questions answered the way they want.They should just get banned with no excuses.
Post a big red warning telling people about the rules,and if they break them,they are gone.If that is too harsh,maybe a three strike rule (for less serious offenses).
If members are acting in a manner that would get them kicked out of a classroom,they should expect to get kicked out of here.
Jim


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## Harold_V (Jan 28, 2011)

jimdoc said:


> I think a pay site will make these guys feel more entitled to have questions answered the way they want.


That's an excellent point. Considering all of us volunteer, we can maintain any posture we prefer, but if we sell our services, we are then at their mercy. 



> They should just get banned with no excuses. Post a big red warning telling people about the rules,and if they break them,they are gone.If that is too harsh,maybe a three strike rule.



I had reconsidered my approach to banning some time ago when I suspended one reader. He was adamant that he be re-instated immediately, which was denied. Even though his two weeks expired, he has not returned to the board under his old identity. 

Our purpose in banning isn't to prevent readers from accessing the site. My objective is to make them understand that they can't come to this forum and be disruptive. If spelling it out doesn't work, banning is a very useful tool in conveying the message. As in this case, it also discloses the willingness of an individual to be cooperative. If testosterone is their answer to problems, they are not welcome here. It is clear to me that when the monkeys run the zoo, those that have value to the forum will have long since departed. 

I would like to thank all of you for your support in this issue. While it may appear that I am on a power trip, my sole purpose is in trying to keep this forum in such a condition that it is useful. In order to do that, we must keep a tight reign------otherwise we will quickly be overwhelmed by those that enjoy raising hell, with no regard to the rights of others that prefer a more gentile atmosphere. 

Harold


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## jimdoc (Jan 28, 2011)

Can't anybody just log on as a guest?
They can read all they want,but just can't post anything.
If people abuse the forum and get banished to only being able to log on as a guest,then they will be forced to read and do their homework by themselves.
And then they just won't be able to disrupt the forum as many have lately.

Jim


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jan 28, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> jimdoc said:
> 
> 
> > I think a pay site will make these guys feel more entitled to have questions answered the way they want.
> ...



Harold,

Even as close as you have some a couple of times giving me the boot I understand your position 100% and support you like wise.


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## Palladium (Jan 28, 2011)

jimdoc said:


> Can't anybody just log on as a guest?
> They can read all they want,but just can't post anything.
> If people abuse the forum and get banished to only being able to log on as a guest,then they will be forced to read and do their homework by themselves.
> And then they just won't be able to disrupt the forum as many have lately.
> ...



I agree with that 110%. Make it where as a guest you can read and download all you want for free, but if you want to ask questions you must pay for the privilege. $4.99 / Year. This would help cover Noxx's forum expenses. If they will pay $20.00 for a ebay or Megan book, then $4.99 should seem like a steal. Any thoughts or input?


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## jimdoc (Jan 28, 2011)

Where have you ever seen a $20 Megan book?
They are more like $100.

Jim


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## Claudie (Jan 28, 2011)

I have been doing some thinking about this thread, and maybe I should have answered the original question with more detail, maybe I shouldn't have answered it at all. Then again, it may not have mattered who answered his question, no matter what the answer would have been, he still wouldn't have thought it was sufficient. You can't please everyone and this guy obviously has an attitude problem. I feel I owe the other members here an apology, especially Harold, for having to deal with this thread. 

There does seem to be an abundance of the "you owe me" or entitlement attitude finding it's way into the forum. I think the price of gold has an effect on the number of people looking to make a quick buck with scrap. Greed has a tendency to seek out those who are looking for an easy way to cash in on something rather than working for it, that may be why those are the types of people that have been drifting in here lately. Greedy people will look for the cheapest way to get what they want. Maybe by making it a pay site, like has been suggested, it would keep more of them out. Maybe being a pay site would create more problems, taxes, income, and such. I really don't know how that would work. 

If each potential member had to fill out a membership application to be approved by a moderator before being accepted to the forum, it may help weed out some of the "Give me an answer now" type of people. Then again, that would mean more work for the moderators. There are many great minds on this forum, I am confident a solution to this problem will surface eventually, unfortunately, I don't have one....


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## wrecker45 (Jan 28, 2011)

claudie i am a new member and i have been reading this post . i for one do not think you owe anyone and apology. you where just trying to help and he caused his own problems.


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## Harold_V (Jan 28, 2011)

Claudie said:


> I feel I owe the other members here an apology, especially Harold, for having to deal with this thread.


Nonsense! 
Frankly, I'm very proud of the answer you provided. It was exactly what he needed to see-----although obviously not what he _*wanted*_ to see.

I do not take pleasure in dealing with individuals such as this----but deal with them I will. Otherwise, why have a moderator?

I have enough experience on the internet to know and understand all too well that there's a bully technique applied by people such as this. They beat up on others and hope for the pack mentality to enforce what they hope to accomplish. Did you take note that he whined because no one was critical of you for your reply (which was perfectly appropriate)? We don't want testosterone fed morons like that on this forum. I'd like to think that we're above such pettiness, and if, in the process of maintaining control of the atmosphere here, I have to resort to filing complaints with IP's or even law agencies, that's exactly what I'm prepared to do. When I fail to serve you guys, I should be replaced by someone that will. 

The most important aspect of the refining game is gaining an understanding. By doing so, when strange issues rear their heads, you have some idea of what is going on, and how to address the issue. By being spoon fed, crossing each and every hurdle one encounters without gaining an understanding, the learning curve is simply prolonged, and may never come to fruition. People that demand instant knowledge are particularly prone to such an outcome. It's all about them, and now. To hell with learning anything. Bad mouth the guy that refuses to cooperate and all is well. The only problem is, it doesn't work that way on this forum. 

We simply can NOT continue to answer each and every inquiry that is a repeat of a repeat of a repeat. Readers, at least here, are expected to do their homework. We insure they do by not spoon feeding the guy that refuses to do so. They will either crack the books and start learning, or they'll be gone. I don't care which avenue they pursue---so long as it's one or the other. 

We have a great gathering of people here---some a bit annoying at times (myself included), but good folks. We need to insure we maintain at least that level of quality. We do that by not allowing rude people to remain as readers. 

Harold


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## lazersteve (Jan 29, 2011)

I had a strange thought:

Maybe some of this new traffic that is looking for instant information was *sold* a CD on EBay with a link to the forum, if that's the case some crook has already charged them for access to the site, No?

Just a thought.

Steve


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## jimdoc (Jan 29, 2011)

lazersteve said:


> I had a strange thought:
> 
> Maybe some of this new traffic that is looking for instant information was *sold* a CD on EBay with a link to the forum, if that's the case some crook has already charged them for access to the site, No?
> 
> ...



That wouldn't surprise me at all.

Jim


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## Harold_V (Jan 29, 2011)

Wouldn't surprise me if that was the case, although I won't discount the possibility that the recent rise in price of gold and silver has been instrumental in the new wave of "I'm going to get rich quick with gold" attitude. What ever the cause, I certainly can't recall seeing so many with so many demands, jumping in blindly, then seeking information that should have been known long before finding themselves in a mess. 

What makes me particularly angry is Hoke's book spells it all out in language even a fool can understand (worked for me!), and, unlike days gone by, it's readily available for anyone that cares to download and read. Surely, if they care enough to get involved, they'd have enough interest to learn something about the process!

I've had it with people like that. I will no longer even talk to anyone that doesn't speak of reading Hoke, understanding and knowing testing, and the use of stannous chloride. I consider these things critical to success. If they don't think so, they can suffer through their stupidity alone.

Harold


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## Oz (Jan 29, 2011)

Jim has an excellent point as to the downside of requiring a fee no matter how small. As a moderator one of the key things I stand on if a new member is dissatisfied, is that we all do this for free. The moment you charge for something they become a customer. A customer has the right to complain if the services rendered do not meet their satisfaction. 

Steve may be right that access to the forum is being sold. I think that even if that is the case I do not think that it accounts for the volume of what we are seeing. I find it more likely that the increased ranking in Google search and the greater desire for people to search with metal prices rising and employment hard to find in this economy being the main culprit. Unemployed financially strapped individuals will be testier than others with different circumstances. 

In some ways the forum may be a victim of its own success. We will indeed find a solution however. What we have here is too valuable to lose.


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## Platdigger (Jan 29, 2011)

If it were a pay site, you would only be paying for access to the site.
Not for any help or answers to a question or questions asked.
Everything would stay the same, you would just have to pay your dues to be here, nothing more.
Only difference is Noxx could get that gold plated Beemer, or was it a MB? 8)


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## nickvc (Jan 29, 2011)

If I may add my personal view to what seems to be a constant problem at present.
I think that the only way to handle these trouble makers is to continue exactly as we do now. Most members provide helpful advice and if that isn't enough and the questioner takes a bad attitude let the moderators step in with either a warning, suspension or an instant ban and for the membership to fully stand behind the moderators and show unity. It seems that the lack of support from the rest of the forum quickly gives them the message even if we have to have a few tantrums and foot stamping for a short while the normal tone of the forum soon returns. 
I for one have personally apologised to two moderators when I felt it was something that I needed to do and to show them that I feel privileged to be allowed onto the forum and that I support their way of running it. We can all makes an error of judgement and post things that perhaps we shouldn't but the proof of been a good team player, member, is to admit it and to allow the forum to return to it's normal tone with as little interruption as possible.
This place is unique and anyone who takes the time and trouble to study here and to follow the guidelines of behaviour is welcome whether they post or just lurk and I for one would hate to see anything changed that would change the feeling of comradeship and close off the incredible depth of knowledge that really is open to all and as we always point out for free.


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## Platdigger (Jan 29, 2011)

Also I think it should be at least 10 bucks.
I even think most would caugh up 100.

Oh, and mods and Irons would be exempt...of course


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## Platdigger (Jan 29, 2011)

Well, I supose it could be alot worse. Thanks to the continued efforts of a few key people, this site is still up and running smoothly actually.


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## seawolf (Jan 29, 2011)

I agree with the moderators completely. If a method of screening should be required then how about a short quiz of say 10 questions from Hokes' book the kind that are hard as all get out if you haven't done your reading.
Just a thought, Mark


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## Harold_V (Jan 29, 2011)

You guys are doing great. Keep the suggestions coming. From all the input, we may come up with something that's functional. 

Personally, I'm all for approved registration. The only problem is, that takes a lot of time, and I'm not convinced any of us that act as moderators are free to pursue the effort. 

We use such a system on the Chaski board, which, from the position of the board administrator, was not a good idea. We were forced to go that route when we were inundated by spammers. 

I have moderated that forum since 2002. In all that time, we have banned maybe four readers (shocking when you see how many get banned here). Wise guys have been chased off (by me, if you can imagine that), and those that were trouble and didn't leave were banned. It speaks volumes about the quality of people that are on that forum--and speaks just as loudly about the benefit of screening applicants. It didn't take long for word to spread, so now the forum is known for its kind demeanor. and attracts those that look for a good place to hang out. Let the goons reign and that goes away almost instantly. 

This forum is unique in that it is the only *real* place where functional knowledge can be obtained. That's one of the things that will keep them coming----so we need a functional plan. It is my opinion that it should include a statement advising anyone that wishes to become a member that they will be banned IMMEDIATELY for violating our simple rules. We need to continue with a no tolerance attitude.

Harold


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## patnor1011 (Jan 29, 2011)

I saw few questions (many times answered btw) by new members with just one answer: Read Hoke

Maybe that is the way how to deal with problem. If somebody ask basic question answer should be: Read Hoke, use search all this is on forum already. End of story.


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## joem (Jan 29, 2011)

Ok, one point of view is that
as much as you may not like it, as soon as you offer information you become a teacher. You can not teach to every single student to perfect satisfaction. But if a larger number of student, no matter what attitude or past expriences, are dissatisfied then the method of teaching to the whole must be examined.
Therefore I tried a test. I logged out and came back in with a google search as a newbie wanting gold. Here are my observations (which you may know already)

Google will bring me to almost any topic on this forum.
As a Browser I can read but not post.
Clicking on Board Index brings them to log in.
I did not want to read terms.
I was able to create a free login without any guidance or cost.

As me and my life experience, I must learn, evolve, and change. The same is happening to this forum. These are my points:;

Free reading is just fine, it's what most of the internet is about.
Login page needs to be updated with simple clear information of what will get you banned up front.
Each rule must be numbered and agreement to the login information is a must if banning is used.
Information on why unpaid members do what they do must be conveyed
Enforcement of the rules must be equal to all.
A message will be sent to the offender explaining resaon(s)
A hierarchy must be established with proceedures in place to allow offenders and defenders to come to a solution.

In the little time I have been here I have also seen a change in the attitude of new members. I also think this is because better page ranking is making this site available to more people. The age of people signing up is matching the overall attitude of the "click want it now generation".
The problems on this forum mirror but in some cases fall behind the problems faced by the traditional education system. This "Y Z" generation that requires a faster solution that solves the immediate need is growing along with the very thing this forum can do. 
We can't change the generation proceeding us by we can change the way we interact with this generation.
my thoughts


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## arthur kierski (Jan 29, 2011)

If we do not reply what we consider an elemental question or a repeated question,i think that that is more then suficient. 
Even i ask sometimes stupid,repeated or elemental questions, and i noticed that no replies comes in(returns)----this is enough for me to realize that i am in the wrong path
Arthur Kierski


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## texan (Jan 29, 2011)

I have also noticed an uptick in new members of the forum that come here with an attitude in the first couple of posts.

I have the misfortune of having a job where I deal with the general public every day. This seems to be a generational problem. Last year in my office we had a retirement by a senior (35 year) employee...the remaining 3 employees are 31 years (me) and 2 twenty plus year veterans. The replacement is a less than 3 year employee who considers the rest of us as dinosaurs. This employee resents the relationships and company experience the rest of us have and pointing her ire at me since I am the only male in the office. She has mixed emotions about my retirement that is planned for some time this year as my replacement is going to be an older female employee that has a reputation for not putting up with any BS and already has this ladies number as it were. Where I am going with this is the junior employees of about 30 years of age and younger and customers in that age bracket seem to have a real problem dealing with older, experienced people. What is somewhat humerous is that my youngest step-daughter and her husband have started home schooling their 8 year old son since he was picking up too much of an "attitude" from the public school. She was 14 years old when her mother and I got married over 20 years ago and do I have some stories about her "attitude" at that time....but as they say that is another story.

Perhaps it would be possible to have new members read and agree to a statement of policy such as what Steve has on his webage before being able to post.

I would not object to a charge to continue to be a member of this forum...it would probably cut back on the riff raff. 

Texan


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## trashmaster (Jan 30, 2011)

I agree with joem,, To become a member there should be check off boxes ; 

1. [*] Introduction-- ( what this forum is about)
2. [*] Code of conduct-- ( how one shoud act here and what will not be put up with)
3. [*] Safety--must read and understand 
4. [*] hoke-- must download , ( as this is the refiners bible)
5. [*] Stanous chloride-- 

there are more things that can be included in this list ,, each one should be highlighted , when you click on the item it will take you to that info to be read. they cannot check the box untill they have at least clicked on the highlighted item.

when they get to the login or submit button if they do not complete all the steps above they will be redirected back to complete the steps missed...

Just an ideal or something to start with

P.S. $10.00 doesn't sound to bad either.


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## joem (Jan 30, 2011)

trashmaster said:


> I agree with joem,, To become a member there should be check off boxes ;
> 
> 1. [*] Introduction-- ( what this forum is about)
> 2. [*] Code of conduct-- ( how one shoud act here and what will not be put up with)
> ...



oh yes an important check box...
6. [*] I understand that members are not obligated to answer your questions and by joining this forum in any way does not entiltle you or your questions to be answered.


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## Claudie (Jan 30, 2011)

I ran across a video advertising the forum today. 

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1100758/gold_refining_forum_com/

It has been out for nearly three years. Maybe advertising the forum this way, "all free, all the time" is attracting some people to come get their FREE refining information. I don't know how many different videos are out there, or what they say about the forum but, maybe it's time to scale back on some of them. Just some thoughts. :|


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## wrecker45 (Jan 30, 2011)

the video would look like there is tons of gold in electronics. and easy to refine to the unknowing.


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## Palladium (Jan 30, 2011)

The expression “ All free-All the time “ was adopted as a way to express the openness and free exchange of information here on the forum. At the time of it's inception the forum only numbered a handful of members and the industry was full of misinformation and mystery processes like those still found on such sites as ebay and we won't name any of the many others. It was a recruiting drive to help expand the knowledge of the refining field and take the control away from the one's proving incomplete or misinformation. One of the founding principles of the forum was for it to be a universal gathering place for the expansion and the knowledge of the real gold refining industry as could be represented and expressed by both the hobbyist as well as the professional and that knowledge could be exchanged freely without charge. The forum as a whole has always been expressed as a non commercial venture and remains so till this day. Hence All free-All the time. I've even recommend charging for a member to have posting rights and this is something you will never hear come out my mouth when it comes to to the forum. Just like any industry that experiences growth you have a higher volume of crap that comes with the expansion. What we have been experiencing here lately is that side effect. We want people to know we are here for the industry.


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## joem (Jan 30, 2011)

Then I myself have stepped on the heart of this forum with the suggestion of a pay site, I am sorry for that, but I do believe clarification of what this forum is about and how a member must act on this forum must be clarified and acknowledged from the initial sign up process.


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## jimdoc (Jan 30, 2011)

A "certain" other forum went to the pay for membership, saying it was to stop spam. My guess is they did it to keep out those that were calling them on all the misinformation they were giving, even by the guy running the forum. 
I wouldn't doubt a site like that sending all their trouble makers here. 


Jim


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## Harold_V (Jan 30, 2011)

One of the most important considerations for the new guy in is to gain an understanding of acceptable behavior. Because the internet has had little to no supervision, the vast majority of people have abused what would be considered common decency. It's much like a guy driving his car---picking his nose---running people off the road, all in the name of remaining anonymous. They're even allowed to use a name that doesn't represent them as the person they are. We have allowed individuals to become faceless, which has emboldened them to the point of doing things they most likely wouldn't do if they stood face to face with others. They think they can hide---although if a transgression is great enough, it's well known that they can't. Still, many take the gamble, as the recent situation confirmed: a reader making threats against the forum via the use of US military equipment. Above all others, I would expect that this person would be wise enough to know better. He deserves to be locked up. 

To be very frank, if I had control over enrollment, two things would be required, and it's clear that they would not be popular. One is that every applicant would be required to register by their proper name. The other would be that they would be required to provided (publicly) their email address. Both would be verifiable, and when their email address became non-functional their registration would be eliminated. That, alone, would eliminate the vast majority of curiosity seekers, to say nothing of the cowards that are disruptive because they think they can remain anonymous. 

Harold


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## Claudie (Jan 30, 2011)

I agree with what Palladium said in his post. "Just like any industry that experiences growth you have a higher volume of crap that comes with the expansion."
With volume, you're gonna have this type of thing. It is something that will always need to be dealt with. I don't believe it has gotten to the point of making this forum any less than what it was, the best place to find useful information about refining precious metals. The moderators do a great job of keeping the contaminates out, refining the forum to a high percentage of quality people, with years of experience, to teach the next generation of refiners the safe and proper methods of refining.

Claudie


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 30, 2011)

When I joined, the forum was about one month old. I really don't think it's getting any worse. We've always had a few jerks. Early on, though, we just didn't ban them so fast. One horrible deal with a "man named Sue" seemed to go on forever before Harold finally bounced him. Sue was probably the most insulting (yet, very knowledgeable) person we've ever had on the forum. Besides banning him, everything he ever wrote was deleted.

As far as these problems are concerned, I would leave the forum as is. I think it's working fine. I definitely think we should continue it as a free forum, with zero charge, not even a penny.

The forum tends to go through cycles and the atmosphere changes, depending on the particular people active at that time. To me, some groups are more interesting than others.

We probably should list a bunch of rules, etc., and make the new member click on something like, "I have completely read the forum rules. I accept them and I will abide by them. I understand that failure to do so will result in banishment."


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## texan (Jan 30, 2011)

> To be very frank, if I had control over enrollment, two things would be required, and it's clear that they would not be popular. One is that every applicant would be required to register by their proper name. The other would be that they would be required to provided (publicly) their email address. Both would be verifiable, and when their email address became non-functional their registration would be eliminated. That, alone, would eliminate the vast majority of curiosity seekers, to say nothing of the cowards that are disruptive because they think they can remain anonymous.
> 
> Harold



I think there could be some serious security issues involved with making members come out of the "closet" as it were. We all deal with a certain amount of precious metals and as large as the net is there is a fair number of nut cases and crooks that might be interested in taking advantage of the situation were all members to be public about their id's. Many members reside out of the US where security is even more precarious than here. I would be willing to provide my id to a designated "membership security directorate" as long as the database of membership was not web based and subject to being hacked.

Texan


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## stihl88 (Jan 31, 2011)

Harold, i wouldn't be too keen on having my email address made public either, it's an open invitation for nasty things such as spam, disgruntled emails and the above mentioned security issues also. 

Can we have a *REPORT* button created above each members postings which can be used if the post violates the forum rules ?

The Moderators have the power to ban people here instantaneously but that can be a lot of work especially if the banned member decides to return under a different alias and cause more trouble, so on and so forth. 
I would think that if we had a banning system in place that would give the buffoons a week or more to reflect on their bad behavior this would make them think twice about playing up here. 
This style of governing would likely encourage a growth for the forum, rather than just banning someone after listening to his kettle boil for two weeks then finally flicking the switch on him we could ban him/her for a few days or more to give them a moment to reflect on their behavior 


A large RC forum i use (17million posts) has a great system in place where the members posts can be reported be any other member if they believe the post to be in breach of the rules, if the reported member is in breach of the rules then they receive a ban period be it 1 week, 6 months or indefinable depending on how serious their crime is. This system seems to sort the men out from the boys quick smart.
Also, each forum topic has a dedicated Moderator who can respond to any of the REPORTED posts and sweep the forum for any nasty stuff also.
If more Moderators are required to scout and patrol the forum for these buffoons then i can be available if needed.

I'm sure this type of policing could be coded into the phpBB forum style?

You can take a look at their ban policy here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/wlist.php


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## Harold_V (Jan 31, 2011)

Please note that I did not say I wanted information made public, although I did state that "if I had control over enrollment". I don't have! <<<sigh of relief from most readers>>> I'm just trying to emphasize a point that we have a few morons that make life hard for the balance of the readers. We need to control them, otherwise the overall quality of this forum will be degraded badly. 

For the record, all readers already have the ability to place notice of a post that is in violation of our simple rules. Did anyone take note of the bottom right side of their screen? (Note that I use subsilver2)

Do you see the :!: ? (It's colored red, and in a square box}

If you highlight the :!: you'll see that it enables you to make a report on the post in question. Click the :!: and follow the instructions. That notifies moderators that something is amiss. You can also send a PM at any time. Readers can be very useful in controlling what we must see on our screens. 
If I apply a little thought to this, key to success is a fast reprimand, and a short suspension. Maybe only a few days for the first infraction, depending on the attitude of the reader. Our purpose isn't to get rid of readers, but to have them understand that this forum isn't like the balance of the internet. Here, they must be mannerly. If they are not, they are not welcome. None of us are willing to tolerate offensive behavior, in particular when you consider that some of us are here strictly to help others. If I find I'm wasting my time, what's the point? 

The best help you can give anyone isn't a handout---it's a hand up. Teach others the proper way to do things and they become self sufficient. Give them anything they desire with no effort on their part and they become the problem we're facing--an over abundance of people that believe there's a free lunch---the entitlement attitude we're seeing all too frequently. 

Harold


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## nickvc (Jan 31, 2011)

I think that all the membership should do their part in helping to police the site, the post by Harold above makes it easier to report any posts that seem to be going awry and a timely intervention by a moderator may well calm things down.
I also think that as many are lurkers but well may read virtually all new posts this feature can allow them to report anything that seems wrong without the need to go onto the open forum but still contribute to the well being of the forum which is what the overwhelming majority want.
The rules of the forum are all understood by anyone who's been here for more than a month, so step up to the mark and and do your part and report any dangerous ideas or bad behaviour and lets keep it the only place to be if you want to discuss or learn about refining precious metals.


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## maxwellclager (Jan 31, 2011)

I quietly spent months reading and researching before I even considered processing my first little bit of PM's. When I made a mistake, I returned to the seach tool and did the leg work. Generally, I have found the necessary information and fixed my own mistakes. Unfortunately, I now have a problem which is beyond my ability to solve. I am tired of wearing sip-on shoes and would like to learn to tie my shoe laces. Could some one post an instructional video and then pay me to watch it? I think this has taken up enough of our time and effort. Let's close this topic and move on to more useful matters.

Max


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## joem (Jan 31, 2011)

can't close it yet until you've tried s*L*ip on shoes
just kidding you :lol:


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## stihl88 (Feb 1, 2011)

> Post by Harold,
> 
> If you highlight the you'll see that it enables you to make a report on the post in question. Click the and follow the instructions




Thanks Harold, that's good to know. I never new that button existed, i needed my Magnifying Glass to see it though :x


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## wrecker45 (Feb 1, 2011)

i can not see it


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## joem (Feb 1, 2011)

wrecker45 said:


> i can not see it



Report Button in explorer


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## texan (Feb 1, 2011)

For the record, all readers already have the ability to place notice of a post that is in violation of our simple rules. Did anyone take note of the bottom right side of their screen? (Note that I use subsilver2)

Do you see the :!: ? (It's colored red, and in a square box}

If you highlight the :!: you'll see that it enables you to make a report on the post in question. Click the :!: and follow the instructions. That notifies moderators that something is amiss. You can also send a PM at any time. Readers can be very useful in controlling what we must see on our screens. 

That's interesting it's blue on my screen in a triangle with rounded corners...I use Safari. 

Texan


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## Palladium (Feb 1, 2011)

It's red if you put your mouse over it.


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## Claudie (Feb 1, 2011)

On mine it's a square button just above the "quote" button.


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## shaftsinkerawc (Feb 1, 2011)

Triangle left of the quote button on the upper right side, red when toggled over.


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## AuMINIMayhem (Feb 4, 2011)

joem said:


> can't close it yet until you've tried s*L*ip on shoes
> just kidding you :lol:



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

alright you... that's going into the realm of another thread!  :mrgreen:


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## wrecker45 (Feb 4, 2011)

i was going to do a video on tying shoe laces. but my belly gets in the way.


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## joem (Feb 4, 2011)

wrecker45 said:


> i was going to do a video on tying shoe laces. but my belly gets in the way.



hahahahaha
I'm laughing because it's true....for me


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## wrecker45 (Feb 4, 2011)

if i make someone laugh. it is a good day.


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## eeTHr (Feb 4, 2011)

OK, I going to give a disclaimer on this particular post! I am aware that I am still a relative newbie byself, and don't deserve to be anything but humble and attentive. I know that this is not my site, and the owner, moderators, and other old timers here who count, might have a different direction intended for it than what my suggestion may portray. But I might as well say what I'm thinking, anyway, because the worst that can happen is everyone can just say "nuts" to it!

What I'm seeing on the many new posters is that there are different types. Some just shouldn't even be reading this stuff, much less posting. While some others arrive here with an earnest intent, but don't realize the full scope of impact of the content on this site, and the extent of the participation efforts of it's members.

It appears that most of those posting in this thread think that some kind of segway into the subject would be part of the solution, accompanied by some specific rules to clue people in on the general atmosphere here (and enforce it if necessary). I agree with both of these ideas.

The question is, "How do you get new people, who may be (foolishly, but commonly) looking for a fast answer, to actually read and understand the basics of what the purpose of this site is, and how to not demolish themselves before they figure it out." (It would be a dark day for us all, to see the headline: "Child messes himself up on recommendation from crazy chemistry site," you know what I mean?)

Although there is no sure fire way to accomplish total perfection on this, I think something optimum can be done.

First, to get people to read the preliminary stuff that you want them to, it needs to be interesting, and that means to give them something they want, along with it.

It seems that most of the "I want some info fast" people actually want to do a recovery, not a refining, whether they know it or not.

They don't know the attitude of the site, and they usually have no idea of the real safety precautions required, either.

I think that a very basic, down and dirty, simplified recovery, which would probably not be very economical but would be more of a educational experience. This would be similar to the idea of what Hoke does in the beginning, with her testing. Except it would use some actual PM bearing materials that people usually ask about.

This would be interwoven with safety precautions, and a little bit of "scare the heck out of them" examples, so they don't take it lightly; between each step. By mixing some simple recovery steps with the related safety material, they would see that the safety requirements go hand-in-hand with accomplishing what they were interested in, in the first place, and it would relate it immediately and directly to each step they do. That would allow them to realize that safety and success go together, rather than safety being something that "the other guy" should do.

They would also be exposed to the manners and rules of the Forum, at the same time.

I guess a few different categories of simplified recovery, to start with, would include a couple kinds of escrap, and some basic karat gold stuff. lazersteve's processes, with peroxide and Chlorox would be pretty good starters, maybe. Or even HCl with a pinch of nitre, even if they dissolved base metals at the same time, and dropped the PMs with #00 copper grounding wire hooked over a jar lip, at least they would get enough results (the magic of chemistry mixed with the awe of gold), to get them to read the safety stuff mixed in, and automatically begin to get the idea of the atmosphere of this site, and get the idea of continuing in that vein to become proficient in actual refining, and taking some pride in what they are learning and doing.

The downside is that it might encourage someone to begin, who really shouldn't. But still it seems like it would be better to direct them to the "Getting Started" section, which has all the safety intermingled within it, than to just have them land here from a search engine, and jump right into something way more dangerous. And when they click to go to this "Getting Started" section, they first land on the "Forum Rules" page, with a few, brief, basic, things required for them to get the idea of manners, and so forth, and a link to the Complete Rules Page, with a statement that it should be read it before they start posting, or be at risk of...whatever.

The upside is that it could provide a buffer zone for the members and moderators, by preventing most of the stuff that has been going on lately, where somebody shows up who is totally off the planet!

If it is graduated slowly into more complex (and efficient) processes, a new person can choose for himself which level to start at, depending on his experience (and how confident he is that he won't clobber himself by beginning at a level which is too advanced for him). If reference is continually made to procedures on the beginning levels, in order to do a new process, an inexperienced person would have to go back and read them, if he tries to skip them, and thus be exposed to all the safety precautions and negative effects which are possible if they are not followed.

If somebody did do something really dumb, after all that, I don't think that anyone would think we didn't try to prevent it.

And with very simplified processes, in the beginning, how many questions could they ask? And many of those could be put into a FAQ, to reduce the bother to members and moderators, down considerably from what it is now.

It may sound complicated, but it could be done a little at a time. I mean, this site will probably be around for quite a long time, no? And getting more and more newbies all the time! It could get ugly!

And it would make it less likely that some parents will be saying that their "poor little Johnny" (who's actually 19!) did who-know-what to himself, as a result of reading something here.


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## rbramsey (Feb 4, 2011)

A good start would be to email them the links with the list of terms (glossary), Hoke book, Getting started info, and basic instructions on when and how to post would be a simple start when they register. And maybe point most in the right direction.

Richard


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## texan (Feb 5, 2011)

I suggest moving Steve's "Welcome to All Newbies" thread to the top of the "Basics" catagory. Where it is now is somewhat hidden unless someone goes to the "Data" catagory. 

Steve is there anything that has appeared on the forum since you did that thread that needs adding?

Texan


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## AuMINIMayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

:idea: 

what about creating a quiz that you have to pass in order to be able to access more detailed areas of the forums?.. like some specific questions answered in Hoke's book, etc..

just a thought, I have no idea how difficult that would be to execute from a web-designer's perspective..


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## Anonymous (Feb 8, 2011)

WOW!
They say that everything happens for a reason.......and that phrase was hard to understand when my chainsaw was dropping on my hand,45 feet in the air,3 weeks ago.
However this is the first time I have seend this thread and now I know that me getting hurt was certainly for a reason......for had I seen what that individual wrote,back when he wrote it,I would surely be,banned,in an intervention,in a 12 step program,or....I can't say anymore.
I am suprised and proud of your restraint harold,you know how I would have handled that situation.
Good job old friend.


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## DarkspARCS (Mar 18, 2011)

wrecker45 said:


> i was going to do a video on tying shoe laces. but my belly gets in the way.



Wow! I'm not alone with the belly issues anymore!


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## rickking (Apr 19, 2011)

Claudie said:


> You need to read more. This subject has been covered here before. There is even a video showing the process if you will only look for it....
> lazersteves signature line is a great place to start. Follow the links you find there, you'll be glad you did....



Hi Claudie, I am a new member just joined a couple of days ago and wanted to THANK YOU and all the members of this board! I am disabled and have to do things to keep my brain working that are mechanical so I take a lot of things apart. Now I have a way to be able to put that work to more use then the pennies the scrap yard pays. I found this forum from a post by "metalicmario" on youtube. I was looking into this process and kept running into people who wanted to sell their "how to guide" since I don't have enough money to pay I kept researching and found this "OUTSTANDING" forum. Right now we don't have enough money for me to eat 3 meals a day ( I skip 1-2 a day) so that our daughter always eats and my wife is next then me. This can give me a chance to change that.

I am very THANKFUL for everyone here sharing the information and not just keeping it private and just as a "newbe" wanted to counter the negative input you previous received from someone else.

Best regards....Rick


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## Claudie (Apr 19, 2011)

This is a great place to learn and the price is right. I have been all over the internet, twice, and I don't think you will find a more knowledgeable group of people in one place, that are willing to help the way the people here do. The best part is, you never stop learning here, you can come back everyday and there is something new to learn. There are some very educational videos on Steve's site. He does an excellent job of explaining what he is doing throughout the video, so you can understand each step along the way. 

Claudie

P.S. If I let negative comments have an affect on me, I wouldn't still be married.... :shock:


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## tranqmorne (May 14, 2011)

For what small amount of time I have been here it is quite apparent to me that the general attitude on the forum is that "We help ppl that help themselves". Which I find great because I believe you learn best this way.

There is a plethora of information on this site and it is made easily accessible. However different from other sites (in a positive way) ppl here make you learn. And unfortunatly many of my generation have grown up being given things and have continued with the idea that everyone owes them something... Claudie I applaude you in your original answer. 

I have a ton of questions... some may have already been answered on this forum which is why I will continue reading.

P.S. The comment about your spouse made me chuckle.. as i too am in the same boat! :lol:


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## Harold_V (May 15, 2011)

tranqmorne said:


> For what small amount of time I have been here it is quite apparent to me that the general attitude on the forum is that "We help ppl that help themselves". Which I find great because I believe you learn best this way.


I can't speak for others, but in the beginning I readily hand carried anyone through processes with which I was familiar, in spite of having done so numerous times previously. However, as the forum grew, more and more sought advice with the notion that they need do nothing---ask and you shall receive. It took more and more of my time, to the point where I had to make a decision. Abandon the forum entirely, or make them do for themselves, which has always been, and will continue to be, the right thing to do. It sorts those that are serious from those that have an entitlement attitude, and, as you suggested, is a much better learning experience.

At the risk of repeating something I've said countless times, I learned to refine strictly from reading Hoke's book. With the knowledge I gained from her book, I founded what turned out to be a very successful refining business (not planned). The point is, if I can do it, anyone can do it. I lack education (graduated high school), but never in my life have I assumed that anyone owed me anything. I have worked for everything I have, and am proud to say I am a self made person. 

Thanks for your wisdom. We can only hope that those that feel they are owed will take a fresh look at themselves and life, and start earning their way. 

Welcome to the forum. 

Harold


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## martyn111 (May 15, 2011)

Not being very computer savvy I am unaware of how easy / difficult it would be to introduce a delay or cooling off period between signing up to the forum and being able to post questions.

If you wanted an answer and you wanted it NOW, would you be prepared to register on this forum and then wait two weeks, or whatever period was set, before you could ask your question? I think the answer to that is no, because they want their answer NOW.

This would give anyone genuinely interested in the subject matter of the forum time to read the existing posts, read Hokes book etc etc and hopefully find the answers themselves, reducing the repeated questions which the mods and members are fed up of reading and replying to. Also this would encourage the "entitlement" element of society to move on to the next search result from google.


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## Harold_V (May 16, 2011)

martyn111 said:


> If you wanted an answer and you wanted it NOW, would you be prepared to register on this forum and then wait two weeks, or whatever period was set, before you could ask your question? I think the answer to that is no, because they want their answer NOW.


Thanks for your insightful response, martyn111. 

The moderators of this forum have discussed this problem to some end, with several concepts being considered. Sadly, nothing has come from the discussions. 

It's clear, more and more, that something must be done. Redundant questions serve no real purpose, with the majority of inquires coming from individuals that appear to need someone to wipe their bottoms---as if they don't have the slightest notion of doing for themselves. Often inquiries are based on the harebrained notion that individuals can become independently wealthy by processing scrap computers. 

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Were that not the case, they wouldn't have been shipped from our shores to third world countries for years, to be salvaged by workers receiving but cents per hour. The processing of e scrap is extremely labor intensive and not profitable on a small scale. There are exceptions, of course, but the average guy is highly unlikely to be able to turn a comfortable profit. It is, however, and excellent hobby and can be therapeutic. It is highly endorsed by me, but under those circumstances. 

Harold


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## t.c.moffat (May 30, 2011)

Claudie said:


> I agree with what Palladium said in his post. "Just like any industry that experiences growth you have a higher volume of crap that comes with the expansion."
> With volume, you're gonna have this type of thing. It is something that will always need to be dealt with. I don't believe it has gotten to the point of making this forum any less than what it was, the best place to find useful information about refining precious metals. The moderators do a great job of keeping the contaminates out, refining the forum to a high percentage of quality people, with years of experience, to teach the next generation of refiners the safe and proper methods of refining.
> 
> Claudie



Running a forum like this one is like casting bullets with range lead. When you melt the lead you have to expect to have some dross on the top.

I believe that the moderators do a very good job of eliminating most of the dross.

Thanks to all of you for a wonderful forum.

Thomas


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## t.c.moffat (May 30, 2011)

eeTHr said:


> OK, I going to give a disclaimer on this particular post! I am aware that I am still a relative newbie byself, and don't deserve to be anything but humble and attentive. I know that this is not my site, and the owner, moderators, and other old timers here who count, might have a different direction intended for it than what my suggestion may portray. But I might as well say what I'm thinking, anyway, because the worst that can happen is everyone can just say "nuts" to it!
> 
> What I'm seeing on the many new posters is that there are different types. Some just shouldn't even be reading this stuff, much less posting. While some others arrive here with an earnest intent, but don't realize the full scope of impact of the content on this site, and the extent of the participation efforts of it's members.
> 
> ...



This is a truly well thought out post and a great idea. As a new member I understand that I have to earn the trust and respect of the membership, and I believe that these ideas have a lot of merit.

Thank you all for this great forum.

Thomas


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