# Is it a mistake Ratio?



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

Can I used, 20% hydrochloric acid to 65% nitric acid?? I'd try It once but, it makes bubbles and , Didnt get the exact Volume of gold that I'd expected. Hope there's some one who can comment below if I have a mistake. Thanks


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Jan 7, 2022)

Yes, you can use 20% hydrochloric. Just adjust the amount of HCl accordingly.

Dave


----------



## butcher (Jan 7, 2022)

Yes, you could.
Most reactions will bubble.
Most miners hardly ever pan as much gold as they expect to. The chemist may not precipitate as much as they expect, both know how to test the results to find any gold that they may have lost or missed, and know how to correct their methods, or they just learn not to expect too much (well at least not be too disappointed because of their over expectations of the calculations).

I suggest doing some research on using HCl and sodium hypochlorite (bleach), to dissolve the fine flakes of gold, with a little heat you can easily remove the oxidizer in solution (Chlorine gas), setting up your gold ions for precipitation from the solution.

Overuse of acids, normally in using aqua regia (mainly with using way too much nitric acid) can be a difficult problem for newcomers to overcome. 

You should get back as much gold as you put in. If you do not know how much you put in, well then the norm is to expect more gold than there is, it is like seeing specks of gold cracks of bedrock in the bottom of the river bed, or seeing the flakes of gold in quartz rock or eying the gold on a circuit board it always looks like more.

Do you have some stannous chloride or some crystals of ferrous sulfate reagents, they can help you follow your gold when you can no longer see it.


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

butcher said:


> Yes, you could.
> Most reactions will bubble.
> Most miners hardly ever pan as much gold as they expect to. The chemist may not precipitate as much as they expect, both know how to test the results to find any gold that they may have lost or missed, and know how to correct their methods, or they just learn not to expect too much (well at least not be too disappointed because of their over expectations of the calculations).
> 
> ...


Hey, boss I only Extracting AuSn solder part, of The computer, I sample 20grams, of It and I extracted 5grams of pure gold. 99.9, because I used onle 20% Hydrochloric acid. So For real, I want to try It again,but I'm afraid to loose again a lot of gold. So boss, may I procced another Expirement using this HCl 20%? Is it 3 n 1 also? 3parts of HCL 1 PART HNO?


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Yes, you can use 20% hydrochloric. Just adjust the amount of HCl accordingly.
> 
> Dave


Master what do you mean, adjust? Is it okay to make it, 3 in 1 also? 3parts HCl 35% and 1 part HNO. 65%?


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

Rock Boulders. said:


> Master what do you mean, adjust? Is it okay to make it, 3 in 1 also? 3parts HCl 35% and 1 part HNO. 65%?


I mean HCl 20%


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Yes, you can use 20% hydrochloric. Just adjust the amount of HCl accordingly.
> 
> Dave


And master I'm confuse about my 20% concentration HCl its color yellow not pure white.


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

butcher said:


> Yes, you could.
> Most reactions will bubble.
> Most miners hardly ever pan as much gold as they expect to. The chemist may not precipitate as much as they expect, both know how to test the results to find any gold that they may have lost or missed, and know how to correct their methods, or they just learn not to expect too much (well at least not be too disappointed because of their over expectations of the calculations).
> 
> ...


Master I dont have Stanous chloride its hard to find Tin powder right here. But My item was Tin And Gold solder how can I get off the tin and make it stanous chloride?thanks for the help.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 7, 2022)

If you have the 20/80 alloy clean and dissolve what can be dissolved in HCl.
You have stannous, seat it aside until needed and use to test.
Diluted like this, it will have a shorter shelf life, but will still hold a few months.
Out of curiosity, where did you find 20/80 Sn/Au solder on a computer part?


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> If you have the 20/80 alloy clean and dissolve what can be dissolved in HCl.
> You have stannous, seat it aside until needed and use to test.
> Diluted like this, it will have a shorter shelf life, but will still hold a few months.
> Out of curiosity, where did you find 20/80 Sn/Au solder on a computer part?


Its easier to, Clean the the gold from silver not like from the tin.. Its hard to get it off the tin for real.


----------



## butcher (Jan 7, 2022)

Rock Boulders,

Something is not clear with your description of what you have or are working with, it may be due to a language problem, an alloy of gold and tin is not normally found in electronic scrap that I know of except for maybe contact switches or relay contact points, there may be some gold dissolved in tin solder through wetting, but otherwise, I really do not understand you working with an alloy of gold and tin when normally dealing with electronic scrap.

!s this an alloy of gold or are we discussing solder on electronic scrap?


You want to dissolve tin or get it soluble enough to separate it from the gold without dissolving the gold, if you put both tin and gold in solution together at the same time you will lockup that portion of your gold in a colloidal solution called Purple of Cassius, making recovery of that gold extremely hard to get, and you also cannot test for the gold locked up in that colloidal solution when it is there.


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

butcher said:


> Rock Boulders,
> 
> Something is not clear with your description of what you have or are working with, it may be due to a language problem, an alloy of gold and tin is not normally found in electronic scrap that I know of except for maybe contact switches or relay contact points, there may be some gold dissolved in tin solder through wetting, but otherwise, I really do not understand you working with an alloy of gold and tin when normally dealing with electronic scrap.
> 
> ...


Yes master, it is my bad because I am not realy good to speak English, but what I mean is I have an 80ah20sn combination of alloy, I did experiment the 20 grams of this scrap and I think I did a mistake I only recover 5.9grams of pure gold of 20grams of AuSn alloy, yes it is a part of electronics scrap. And only electronic Engrs. Knows about it.. how can I get rid of this tin successfully? Im trying to extract 300grams of this Ausn alloy. The owner of this expecting about 200grams of Pure gold. Thankyou for the help master


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

butcher said:


> Rock Boulders,
> 
> Something is not clear with your description of what you have or are working with, it may be due to a language problem, an alloy of gold and tin is not normally found in electronic scrap that I know of except for maybe contact switches or relay contact points, there may be some gold dissolved in tin solder through wetting, but otherwise, I really do not understand you working with an alloy of gold and tin when normally dealing with electronic scrap.
> 
> ...


Master, can This alloy AuSn can be put in Aqua regia solution? Or there is another way to extract it?


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

butcher said:


> Rock Boulders,
> 
> Something is not clear with your description of what you have or are working with, it may be due to a language problem, an alloy of gold and tin is not normally found in electronic scrap that I know of except for maybe contact switches or relay contact points, there may be some gold dissolved in tin solder through wetting, but otherwise, I really do not understand you working with an alloy of gold and tin when normally dealing with electronic scrap.
> 
> ...


Master should I used aqua regia or just delute hydrochloric acid?to dissolved the tin


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 7, 2022)

There has been a lenghty discussion lately on the same topic.
There are many ways to do it.
It comes down to how much material you have.
Dissolve the tin in Muriatic, (less than 300 peso pr gallon)
Then dissolve the gold in AR, if and only if the tin is gone.
If you can get it in powder/foil shape you can dissolve it in HCl peroxide or HCl bleach.
Tin will not create problems then.

Regards Per-Ove


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 7, 2022)

Rock Boulders. said:


> Master, can This alloy AuSn can be put in Aqua regia solution? Or there is another way to extract it?


Don't add nitric to until the tin is dealt with.


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Don't add nitric to until the tin is dealt with.


So just dellute HCl acid master?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 7, 2022)

I don't think you have to dilute the HCl. Just warm it to heat, not boil.


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I don't think you have to dilute the HCl. Just warm it to heat, not boil.


I tried that master to put in Hcl and heat it up I think its almost half n hour theres no effect on it


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 7, 2022)

Have you tried to hammer it flat?
To increase surface area?


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 7, 2022)

Rock Boulders. said:


> I tried that master to put in Hcl and heat it up I think its almost half n hour theres no effect on it





Yggdrasil said:


> Have you tried to hammer it flat?
> To increase surface area?


Is it very thin master thin likes an hair. And for real got some interest to do it again because of your help. This may easiest to do than aqua regia. Im so very glad to make it for real. What should baker should I use to be safe not not to crack for a long time expose in fire with sand?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 7, 2022)

Rock Boulders. said:


> Is it very thin master thin likes an hair. And for real got some interest to do it again because of your help. This may easiest to do than aqua regia. Im so very glad to make it for real. What should baker should I use to be safe not not to crack for a long time expose in fire with sand?


You should absolutely have a catch basin under when heating.
Use baking glass if you do not have access to proper pyroceram.

And if it is already as thin as a hair.
You can easily go directly to HCl Peroxide. Heating not necessary then.


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 8, 2022)

Should it take a day If I only used HCl master?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Jan 8, 2022)

That is impossible to say for me here.
I'd need to see what is happening.
You said it was no reaction in HCl.
Warm concentrated HCl dissolve tin relative easy.


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 8, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> That is impossible to say for me here.
> I'd need to see what is happening.
> You said it was no reaction in HCl.
> Warm concentrated HCl dissolve tin relative easy.


I didnt warm the HCl thats why it didnt react right? I just put in the botle ang stairing for about 30mins so thats my mistake too. Master


----------



## butcher (Jan 8, 2022)

Knowing how thick the metal is would help us a lot in understanding what you have, is it fine like powder or foils or thick like a wire a bar, or beads...
Pictures may help.

Rolling it thin as suggested should help to get more of the tin in the alloy exposed to acids.

Using weight may give you a clue if you are dissolving any of the tin, tin has a lot less specific gravity than gold so you need to consider that in the calculation, another possible clue how does the gold look, is it the same after being in the acid, do you see pitting of the surface or falling apart to brown powers...
just because you do not see a reaction does not necessarily mean that a reaction is not happening, you could have invisible hydrogen gas evolving and just not be detecting it.

After removing as much tin as possible using HCl.

I mentioned earlier a fusion as a possible way to deal with the tin.

Another idea is to use the concentrated sulfuric acid electrolytic stripping cell to separate the gold and tin alloy

A thought when going forward to dissolve the gold, I would probably look into using some other oxidizer with HCl than using nitric acid (to make aqua regia) to dissolve the gold, like using bleach or H2O2 as the oxidizing agent with the HCl acid.

You may not see any color change or much of a reaction at all, besides maybe some tiny bubbles, tin chloride solution will be clear or tin in solution will not change the looks of your acid.

In an alloy, only where the acid can come into direct contact with the tin atoms (on the surface of the metal) is the only place you can dissolve the tin from the alloy, where the tin is hidden under a shell of gold atoms (gold which is unreactive to the acid) and the acid cannot reach the tin then it cannot dissolve those tin atoms.


----------



## Rock Boulders. (Jan 8, 2022)

butcher said:


> Knowing how thick the metal is would help us a lot in understanding what you have, is it fine like powder or foils or thick like a wire a bar, or beads...
> Pictures may help.
> 
> Rolling it thin as suggested should help to get more of the tin in the alloy exposed to acids.
> ...


, it is thin Like a 2papers thickness. Thats what I'm thinkin too, It can maybe desolve only the external part of the alloy , how about the inner part, that contains tin? So maybe I need to destroy it using HCl and H202? Before I proceed to Smh precipitation?


----------

