# I am unable to identify this "base metal", any help is appreciated



## Syn (Jun 25, 2018)

I got a batch of an alloy, the density is about 6.40~6.85g/cm² (the range my scale offers, may be +- some) and i have a hard time to figure what it could be and there was no information from the source  

Its silver colored, can be copper plated (as in some parts seem to be, maybe also nickel and gold plating on some), MAY be reacting to oxygen (not tested yet but some broken parts look alike..) magnets do not stick to it but would show resistance when sliding down in 45° aka slow sliding, at first thought it was some kind of aluminium alloy but after density test i am rather sure it is not (aluminium based alloys go at an density under 3g/cm as far as i know) so what could it be?

Thank you for reading, please reply if you have any idea no matter how far fetched, thank you :!

Here i made a picture with detail (width about 1cm):


----------



## goldsilverpro (Jun 25, 2018)

What are the parts used for? Do they have a name? Photo pf parts?


----------



## Lino1406 (Jun 25, 2018)

Reacts with HCl?


----------



## Rachello (Jun 26, 2018)

Silver can have this type of reaction with a magnet. It’s called the Lorentz Force. 

Sliding a magnet on silver at any angle will produce a “slow slide”. This happens because as the magnet moves it creates an electrical current. 

Electrical currents have their own magnetic fields. It is the electrical currents own magnetic field that is interacting with the magnet, not the silver. 

The silver acts as a conductor to conduct the electrical current that creates the magnetic field interactaction occuring while the magnet is moving. 

Although Faraday states silver is Diamagnetic, he also states that when a magnetic field is applied, even to a Diamagnetic metal, the dipoles are no longer completely randomly oriented; more dipoles point with the field than against the field. 

This results in a net positive magnetization in the direction of the field, the metal has a positive susceptibility & is now a Paramagnetic metal. 

Aka, the “slow slide”. I am not saying your metal is silver as I can’t think of one case of silver being plated with copper. Usually it is the opposite. A lot of metals react this way including copper & gold.

Good luck
Rachel


----------



## Syn (Jun 26, 2018)

I made a picture look first post.

@goldsilverpro The batch contain no actual parts, it is scrap without any markings.

@Lino1406 I can not test it inside town and however, i prefer to use as few chemicals as possible

@Rachello The density is too low for any Silver based compound i guess.

--- 
This forum makes it quite hard to answer so i am sorry for the short replies, at least i can edit my post as many times i want :roll:


----------



## Rachello (Jun 26, 2018)

Syn, 

After looking at your pictures this is what i think it looks like:

They remind me of power cables that are connected to a power source/rectifier and or fuse panel. 

These look like shielded power cables that are in a CO/central office/switch or data center in telecom. 

There are a million types of different inner shielding for cable lines. Some have only silver shielding & some have no silver at all. Many times the shielding consists of Aluminum & or Tin & a silver mix. The list is practically endless!

One of the reasons I am saying this is the way the copper wires look. Sort of like what you would find inside jumper cables without the shielding. 

In addition to the above it looks corroded. It may contain lead as the crumbly stuff looks a little like the atomatization of Liquid lead and lead-silver alloys. These begin to oxidize in pure oxygen at temperatures of 350 to 600°C.

I increased the range of temperatures at which lead oxidizes to add the oxidation of lead with additions of silver (silver increases oxidation temps). 

Just to be safe thoroughly wash your hands after handling it until you know for sure! I triple wash my arms,face, hands & change my clothes after I handle any lead & set those clothes in a special bin to wash separately. 

I might be a little more eccentric than most. On average people touch their face 16x per hour without even realizing it! I have 3 kids and would never want to inadvertently expose them to lead just by kissing or hugging them! Better safe than sorry!

Hope this helps you along a little to figuring out what that dang metal is! 

Rachel


----------



## Syn (Jun 27, 2018)

The "Copper color" on the picture is just a reflection of a wooden door  , it is an closeup of the (oxidized?) surface + a "polished" spot. It does not have any noticable hue.

I will see if i can get a better camera to make more pictures if needed.


----------



## Rachello (Jun 27, 2018)

Syn,

After looking & really looking at your pictures again, I see no way that what you are showing could be a reflection of a wooden door! 

I have given you my best hypothesis on what your scrap metal might consist of. Without you providing more information or better pictures or actual testing acid results associated with your "mystery metal", you will not get an aha answer on this forum. 

People post questions with information surrounded by facts & clues. This is so that others can make logical inferences from their own learned knowledge & experience to help you solve a problem. 

What you are asking is for someone to just give you an answer without knowing anything about what you are presenting. 

It's a complete shot in the dark. 

Give more information. Maybe then someone will be able to help you.

Rachel


----------



## g_axelsson (Jun 27, 2018)

Looks like a lump of zinc metal someone have cut into with a hacksaw. Density of zinc is 7.14 g/cm3 so it's close. Alloyed with some Al and you would have a lighter alloy.

A quick google turns up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_aluminium
It's a bit lighter, but as it looks like someone have melted it together. There could have been a mix of pure zinc and zinc - aluminium alloys giving a more dense alloy.

As several have asked... reaction with HCl and other acids would tell a lot. Any reaction with NaOH (lye) would also be interesting.

Since there are no references of size in your pictures... are we looking on a ton or a gram piece?
The better description you will give the better answers you will get.

Göran


----------



## Owltech (Jun 27, 2018)

hard and brittle or soft and malleable ?


----------



## Syn (Jun 27, 2018)

First of all, thanks for all the answers.

The picture shows about 1cm width, i made it with a cheap camera and additional lense holding it with my hand :wink: 

The corroded parts are very brittle, the good part underneath is rather soft when scratching but seems to be hard to form (i tried a big hammer, just a little bend).

Whatever, after checking g_axelssons link i came across Zamak alloy and it seems to be a hit - whats the best way to test for it?


----------



## Rachello (Jun 27, 2018)

Syn said:


> I got a batch of an alloy, the density is about 6.40~6.85g/cm² (the range my scale offers, may be +- some) and i have a hard time to figure what it could be and there was no information from the source
> 
> Its silver colored, can be copper plated (as in some parts seem to be, maybe also nickel and gold plating on some), MAY be reacting to oxygen (not tested yet but some broken parts look alike..) magnets do not stick to it but would show resistance when sliding down in 45° aka slow sliding, at first thought it was some kind of aluminium alloy but after density test i am rather sure it is not (aluminium based alloys go at an density under 3g/cm as far as i know) so what could it be?
> 
> ...


----------



## Rachello (Jun 27, 2018)

Syn said:


> Its silver colored, can be copper plated (as in some parts seem to be, maybe also nickel and gold plating on some)





Syn said:


> The "Copper color" on the picture is just a reflection of a wooden door  , it is an closeup of the (oxidized?) surface + a "polished" spot. It does not have any noticable hue.




These are confounding statements. Is it silver colored? Copper plated? Nickel or gold plated? Or just a reflection of a wooden door & now the metal has no noticeable hue? 

If it has no noticeable hue, how did you come by the notion that it is copper, nickel or gold plated?

When making observations be thorough & consistent. Try to describe all characteristics as close as you possibly can. 

Rachel


----------



## jimdoc (Jun 27, 2018)

You should show pictures of the whole item, might help identify what it is.
Unless it is a melted blob.

Zamac is what Dell LCD monitor stands usually have underneath the plastic.


----------



## Syn (Jun 28, 2018)

Today i put a tiny drop of HCL on the scratched surface and it instantly reacted, heavily for a few minutes, then after about 10 minutes no more reaction was visible so i waited some more minutes and cleaned the acid off - now theres an tiny, very dark matte gray (almost black) hole left.


I think pure Zinc would eat the acid faster, is there a chance it was delayed by Aluminium or Copper contents? And does the black remains help at all?

@Rachello 
Sorry if i did not give you enough details, but it really is an reflection, maybe not really the wooden door, but a glimpse of it or, or.. i should have mentioned the size earlier, my bad  

@jimdoc
I am unable to show the full parts as they are failures, sadly i am unable to get id on the producer so i have no choice. They are probably some kind of lamp bases which didn't made it through the whole plating process but thats just a guess. As said, some parts show signs of copper and a few also show silver colored plating (nickel i guess) and appear to have golden hue spots.


\
I just noticed, on the enlarged pictures (lower row) you can see a tiny golden spot on the very top left, this is no reflection but only visible on the lensed image (or with a microscope)


----------



## Rachello (Jun 29, 2018)

Sounds like the reaction I get on "potmetal". There are many different recipes, but no metals (in my opinion) worthy of refining. I mostly just see it as a huge pain especially when a piece containing it gets mixed up with anything else I'm processing by various ways. 

Personally I hate the stuff!

Rachel


----------



## Syn (Jul 1, 2018)

Yeah i figured it would not be worth to refine it but testing helps to gain knowledge and if it was not zinc based but something less common the scrap price may be very different too.

I am not sure about the gold plating tho, i doubt it is worthy to refine for unless there is a super clean and cheap way i never heard about :?


----------



## Rachello (Jul 6, 2018)

Hey Syn,

I saw your online, how did you make out with your mystery metal?

Rachel


----------



## Syn (Jul 8, 2018)

I have marked it "Zinc alloy with tiny traces of gold" together with its density range and stored it for sale :!: 

For me this case is solved; Thanks.


----------



## g_axelsson (Jul 8, 2018)

Whenever I have a blob of metal with tiny traces of precious metals I just put it in my stock pot. Some metals might create problems like tin and in some cases aluminium. Using zinc would drop any metal less reactive than zinc so keep that in mind.

Most often I use copper in my stock pot, so lately I have used heat spreaders with gold plate on them until I run out of that scrap. Previous I used some melted pins, no I didn't buy gold drops on ebay, it was remnants of experiments I did in my youth. It all disappeared and left the black powder of gold behind.

As long as you own the material refined you can save it for a time when it can be added to a process without too much problem and you get it refined for free.

Göran


----------



## Syn (Jul 8, 2018)

Do you mean, i should dissovle the zinc to gather the rest? How could that be even profitable?


----------



## g_axelsson (Jul 8, 2018)

You do it in the stock pot where left over acid from gold refining ends up. You add metal to it to cement any gold still in solution. For that you need metal. I use copper, Hoke used zinc, there are pros and cons with both choices.
Using low grade scrap instead of copper for example both reduces the need for copper and recovers the precious metals in the scrap for free. It all depends on what your needs are and volumes processed. So yes, it can be done profitable if you have a stock pot.

Göran


----------



## bigpagoda (Jul 8, 2018)

"Zamak" is a brand name for a zinc alloy used by Atlas-southbend lathes in the 30's and 40's for their change gears. It is very light and brittle if you hit it with a hammer it will break but does deform a bit. I used hcl on my change gears to remove the "White Rust" when I got it and it worked fabulously. Zamak parts were cast under pressure into the molds which are mostly small (less than cm sq) thick. When broken Zamak has a potmetal structure on the inside not like the picture.


----------



## bigpagoda (Jul 8, 2018)

Forgot to mention the Zamak left black residue after reacting to the hcl.


----------



## Syn (Jul 9, 2018)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak mentions different types/properties of Zamak alloy, as for the black residue you mention:


> now theres an tiny, very dark matte gray (almost black) hole left.



Okay Göran thanks for telling me this, i will consider keeping a bit for if i ever start purifying more.


----------



## anachronism (Jul 9, 2018)

I may have missed something here but could someone enlighten me as to where it is proven that there is some gold there?


----------



## g_axelsson (Jul 11, 2018)

anachronism said:


> I may have missed something here but could someone enlighten me as to where it is proven that there is some gold there?


Good point!

It's obvious impossible to refine gold if there isn't anything there.

Take a small part of the alloy (for example by drilling). Dissolve it in HCl.
Any undissolved remains could be precious metal. Add a drop of nitric and a few drops of HCl to any powder remaining. This can then be tested for any precious metals with stannous.

This test would only give an answer if there is precious metals present or not, not how much.

Göran


----------



## Syn (Sep 2, 2018)

Maybe i have not been clear enough before because i was not certain myself, the gold was on the outside not inside the material itself; However, now i am certain about it because i got another batch of the material, this time there are only small spots, about 10% of the whole surface which are broken and show the material i showed on the pictures.. the remaining parts show a very nice shiny gold plating :G

So i guess the producer changed something, and now produces more worthy scrap (a lot less tho)


----------



## Rachello (Sep 10, 2018)

Syn,

Success/Courage consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. 
-Winston Churchill-

Do not forget what you learned, but please move on. 

If learning is what you intend to do, start with a material that has a known recovery value. This should be your starting point. By starting with a documented material you can hone your knowledge and refining skills. You can estimate losses you may have with what other, more experienced refiners have documented in their recovery. This way you have a better understanding of the different materials you may possible work with, the amounts of Au you should expect to recover and the pertaining reactions of the base metals of the material you are working with. 

All of this happens before you touch a single chemical. 

Rachel


----------



## Rachello (Sep 10, 2018)

anachronism said:


> I may have missed something here but could someone enlighten me as to where it is proven that there is some gold there?



Nope, didn't miss a beat, but I'm a sucker for "mystery metals". :wink:


----------



## Rachello (Sep 10, 2018)

> g_axelsson said:
> 
> 
> > Previous I used some melted pins, no I didn't buy gold drops on ebay,
> > Göran



...Sorry about the multiple posts! In re-reading this thread I came across this little gold nugget (yup that's a pun).....Göran...I LMFAO :lol: :lol:!! (Hope that doesn't tee off the moderators). Lol...gold nuggets on eBay, I might just start melting blobs of junk! Do people really buy that trash? I really thought it was a joke, that was until I checked it out! 

There is an old saying: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Almost free...Gold Drops on eBay!...lololol :lol: 

Rachel


----------



## g_axelsson (Sep 10, 2018)

Rachello said:


> > g_axelsson said:
> >
> >
> > > Previous I used some melted pins, no I didn't buy gold drops on ebay,
> ...


No worries, we can take it. :wink: 

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, I bought it on eBay.

Göran


----------



## Rachello (Sep 10, 2018)

HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lololololol...I might have maybe snorted & blew chunks of cheerio's & milk out of my nose! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: & I can't even refrain myself from doing it all over again! I might just steal that gem, just because it's so true! :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

BTW, My 4yr old daughter thought it was an amazing trick making milk & cheerio's shoot out of Mommy's nose for no apparent reason at all  

& it doesn't get old..lol :lol:

R


----------



## g_axelsson (Sep 11, 2018)

That's golden! I guess I owe you a new keyboard now. :mrgreen: 

Göran


----------



## Rachello (Sep 12, 2018)

Every device I own is water & kid proof, so thankfully my phone survived!!
If you feel like sending me a random gold nugget, I would not argue against it! Lol!
My nose burned all day & about 3hrs after I sneezed out a Cheerio that was lodged up there somewhere! :?: :!: :shock:  

Rachel


----------

