# Karo Syrup for Converting Silver Chloride



## delboy9891 (Mar 16, 2022)

Hi Folks quick question, Ive been reading through the posts about the salt, sugar, lye method and a few posts mention karo syrup instead of sugar, my question is there are three different karo syrup types dark karo syrup, light Karo syrup and another, what do the members who use this prefer? Thanks in advance for any replies


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## Martijn (Mar 17, 2022)

I'm guessing the dark syrup is caramelized sugar and may not work as good. 
I have a kilo bag of dextrose for the tiny amount of AgCl I create.


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## Yggdrasil (Mar 17, 2022)

The head line is a bit misleading, we don't use the lye/sugar process in the silver cell....


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## Stibnut (Mar 17, 2022)

"Silver cell" refers to an electrolytic cell where pure silver is plated out from an impure silver nitrate solution, not to the lye+sugar method of reducing silver chloride to silver metal.

You'll want the light Karo syrup, I believe. It likely has fewer additives and isn't going to contain caramelized sugar, which is sugar which has been partly broken down by heat. Based on my experience doing this for the first time last weekend, you'll get more caramelized sugar than you'll want as a byproduct of the reaction anyway - you won't want to start out with more!


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## delboy9891 (Mar 18, 2022)

Sorry if the title of this thread is misleading, I meant the conversion of Silver Chloride to Silver Oxide to Elemental Silver rather than for a Silver Cell


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## orvi (Mar 18, 2022)

Get a kilo bag of regular refined sugar, and it will work just fine - if you have any doubt about some additives in syrup. In refined crystal sugar, there are no additives 
Get basic oxide mixture hot (at least 80-90°C) and then add the sugar with stirring/swirling the whole vessel. Monitor the course of the reaction with thermometer - this reaction is very exothermic. After addition of sugar, you will see temperature rise. This is very good practice how to perform this reaction relatively safely, with minimal risk of spattering boiling hot caustic flying all over the place. When you add a dose of sugar (like tablespoon) and temperature did not rise, reaction is over.


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## Stibnut (Mar 18, 2022)

To add to what orvi said, it's best if you put your beaker of silver oxide in a clean 5-gallon bucket as you add the sugar. This way if you do add too much sugar too quickly, you'll catch any overflow or spattering. I did that last Sunday and was very glad I did - saved me from having to clean up hot highly alkaline syrupy goo with little bits of silver from my back porch!

edit to add: Also, the addition of NaOH will heat up your solution hot enough (80+ C) for the sugar to do its job, if you add your sugar before it cools off. Another thing that helps after the NaOH addition is a little handheld blender to break up any clumps of unreacted AgCl and get it all converted to Ag2O before adding the sugar.


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## silver1 (Mar 19, 2022)

1 ml of Karo contains 3 grams of sugar.


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## orvi (Mar 19, 2022)

Stibnut said:


> To add to what orvi said, it's best if you put your beaker of silver oxide in a clean 5-gallon bucket as you add the sugar. This way if you do add too much sugar too quickly, you'll catch any overflow or spattering. I did that last Sunday and was very glad I did - saved me from having to clean up hot highly alkaline syrupy goo with little bits of silver from my back porch!
> 
> edit to add: Also, the addition of NaOH will heat up your solution hot enough (80+ C) for the sugar to do its job, if you add your sugar before it cools off. Another thing that helps after the NaOH addition is a little handheld blender to break up any clumps of unreacted AgCl and get it all converted to Ag2O before adding the sugar.


Direct very quick route is to drain AgCl from as much water as possible by simple decantation. Then add quite a bit of NaOH and swirl the pot/bucket. It will get hot by itself, and strong NaOH solution will cause quicker conversion. It will also retain the heat necessary for the conversion to Ag with sugar. It can be converted all way to silver in less than 45 minutes.
Altough blender is much better from practical point. Or if you have quite a bit of AgCl, put it in the bucket, acquire drill adapter for cement mixing and you are ready to rock  with all safety gear (shield, gloves and protective clothing) of course.
Slower, but more economical way is to heat the AgCl suspension and add only slight excess of hydroxide, taking advantage of quicker conversion to Ag2O when heated to boiling (reaction thermodynamics = elimination or dehydration reactions usually proceed quickier when heated). With small quantity, classic lab magnetic stirring plate capable of heating is more than sufficient. With larger quantity, probably bigger stainless steel pot with "drill mixer adapter".
I never personally done the "Fe/H2SO4 cement mixer" approach, as Lou and others suggested. But it sounds very rational and practical (as all suggestions from professional guys like Lou), if you have time and cement mixer


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