# melting gold



## Anonymous (Feb 18, 2009)

Hello,

I have a question on melting gold plated metals, I want to experiment
on an idea I had, I have some computer connectors and gold fingers, I
realized that the metals that the gold is plated on is magnetic, once
I melt in to liquid form would I be able to separated it using a
strong magnet? I know the melting temperatures are different on the
metal and the gold.

please give me a better idea if what I'm saying makes sense.

Thanks,
Jason


----------



## jimdoc (Feb 18, 2009)

Jason,
That idea won't work as not all the metals are magnetic.
The nickel plating under the gold will be magnetic, but
there is usually brass or other metals under that. 
Melting will just alloy the gold with the other metals and
make it harder to recover. The sulfuric cell works the best
for gold plated items, and AP method on the fingers.
Jim


----------



## Anonymous (Feb 18, 2009)

Thanks jimdoc,

i tried the chemical AR and ended up with silver powder and i followed instructions to the T, Im trying to find different ways of extracting the gold, my last option is to melting everything in to small nuggets and taking it to a company that does the AR, but i have heard they steal and you won't know it because i won't be able to know how much gold came out of it.


----------



## jimdoc (Feb 18, 2009)

AR will disolve all the metals.
Have you watched the videos on Lazer Steve's site?
If not you should check them out.
Jim


----------



## g_axelsson (Feb 18, 2009)

newhobby said:


> I realized that the metals that the gold is plated on is magnetic, once I melt in to liquid form would I be able to separated it using a strong magnet? I know the melting temperatures are different on the metal and the gold.



Short answer : No!

... and a bit longer answer ...
1. Just as you can't separate metals in a melt with gravity you can't do it with magnetic force either. The metals will form an alloy (with very few exceptions) and act as a single metal with a common set of properties.

2. In any case iron is nonmagnetic above the curie temperature (around 700 degrees C if my memory serves me right) and won't react to a magnet when molten.


----------



## Harold_V (Feb 19, 2009)

g_axelsson said:


> 2. In any case iron is nonmagnetic above the curie temperature (around 700 degrees C if my memory serves me right) and won't react to a magnet when molten.



Give that man a cigar!

That's correct. Iron at (critical) red heat is not magnetic.

There are no known magic ways to separate metals once alloyed. 

Harold


----------



## butcher (Feb 19, 2009)

that is a trick used when heat treating Iron,or steel, heating it untill it is non magnetic then slow cooling as in sand bath this would soften to make working it very easy to work(fileing, grinding etc.), heating again to red heat quenching in brine or oil. now it is hard so hard if dropped it can break like glass, as the metal is crystalized, then metal would be cleaned and reheated to temperature of desired hardness judged by color of heat, and quenched again to the hold desired hardness, many times different portion of the tool are made of different hardness, only the face of a hammer is hard, only point of chiesel hard, mainly edge of knife. I use this to knives and many other tools.


----------



## Anonymous (Feb 19, 2009)

what would happened to the metal if you heat it to 1000 degrees C or more? im trying as much as i can to avoid using chemicals, another way i was thinking about is sanding off all the gold with a dremel and melting the 14k or 24k of the computer pieces or plated jewelry , i will spend time on it if i know it is possible.


----------



## qst42know (Feb 19, 2009)

With no idea of the purity obtained from your sanding dust it would need refined anyway. 

Chemicals can be quick and safe if you take the proper precautions.


----------



## Harold_V (Feb 20, 2009)

newhobby said:


> what would happened to the metal if you heat it to 1000 degrees C or more? im trying as much as i can to avoid using chemicals


You might consider taking up fishing, or a hobby different from refining gold. There is no way you can process metals without using chemicals, no more than you can avoid chemicals in daily life. Salt is a chemical. So is soap. So is vinegar. It's all a matter of your perspective. 

If you have an interest in gold refining, you must learn to deal with particular chemicals responsibly. When you understand how to do so, you'll see that they can be handled with perfect safety, assuming you follow the guidelines set forth. Don't let these things intimidate you----they are all manageable.

Harold


----------



## Anonymous (Feb 20, 2009)

Thank you for the encouragement Harold, I have all the chemicals that i need and i have a outside very well ventilated area away from people
1. Muriatic acid
2. Subzero (nitric acid Substitute)
3. Urea
4. storm precipitant 
5. Ammonia hydroxide
6. Precious metal detection liquid

i have been doing a lot of research and everyone on different forums are telling me it's bad for you and your better off taking it somewhere to get it done. Im starting out as a new interest and now im getting scared to do it because of dealing with chemicals, thats why im trying to figure out different ways of getting the gold off and maybe i'll stuble on to a new way of doing it


----------



## jamthe3 (Feb 20, 2009)

After doing TONS of research, googling, reading, etc., etc., for my two cents....this is the ONLY forum!!

BTW, since I see no apology posted on another thread...please allow me:

Harold, 
I apologize for that gentleman. I'm grateful when I accidentally pose a poorly worded question for those of you who have let me know. The reason I asked to begin with was, after all, to get the answer. Why in the world I would I want an incorrect one due to my own ignorance as to how to ask clearly and concisely?
I cannot begin to explain how much enjoyment I have received reading post after post over the last year or so; and, truly thank you in particular for "practicing what you preach."
For, if it were not for the clarity and exactness of your (& a few others also for that matter) responses and explanations...my enjoyment would have in fact only been a mixture of confusion, boredom and ultimately frustration culminating in defeatism. In short, I would have simply given up before realizing the enjoyment I have instead found. While my own elevator still doen't quite go all the way to the top floor yet....at least I'm now off the ground floor.
Thanks to all and yourself in particular...don't change a thing. Your directness got me to read Hoke and that truly helped my dimwitted mind to start absorbing a few of the lessons ya'all post here for free. BTW, couldn't help but notice it was his very first post after 5 days on board...so, don't put too much stock in it or allow it to bother you.

Cheers,
John


----------



## Harold_V (Feb 20, 2009)

newhobby said:


> im trying to figure out different ways of getting the gold off and maybe i'll stuble on to a new way of doing it


Do some research on zone refining. You might find that subject interesting. I believe Lou has discussed it before. It won't help you get gold off e scrap, but it's one way to bring it very fine, if that be your choice. 

Harold


----------



## Harold_V (Feb 20, 2009)

jamthe3 said:


> After doing TONS of research, googling, reading, etc., etc., for my two cents....this is the ONLY forum!!


The problem with the refining industry is the high degree of secrecy involved. It didn't help that from '33 until '75, it was illegal to possess, process or manufacture gold without a federal license. That discouraged anyone from messing with gold---the penalty was horrendous. 10 years and $10,000 fine, back when $10,000 would still buy a guy a decent house. 

We have members here that have experience rarely found outside the industry. I know that, and you know that, but a guy that has no clue can't sort it out. That's why we have to keep a good image here, providing all the help we can, to keep readers out of the hands of huksters. 



> BTW, since I see no apology posted on another thread...please allow me:
> snip very nice comments



Thank you! I appreciate the kind remarks, but most importantly, I apprecaite the fact that you understand the degree of dedication I have to helping folks that are willing to listen. 

I'm nothing short of intolerant of folks that drop by, read a comment and have a smart remark to make when they have no idea of the hours I spend on this forum. 

The individual that ran his mouth is an engineer, at least according to his profile. He, above others, should understand the importance of giving clear and consice information. Had he been some dope that just fell of a turnip wagon, I'd have likely dismissed his comments, but, dammit, he should know better. 

That he tried to make me look foolish doesn't work with me, not when I'm giving my all. Should he revisit the board, he best get a different attitude, in spite of the fact that he was polite enough. 

I don't tolerate smart remarks when they are not warranted. I made it perfectly clear that I wasn't sure if the question revolved around finely divided particles, or fine (pure) gold. That dolt had the audacity to explain to me that fine means pure? 

I spent my entire 20+ years of refining working towards perfecting chemical refining and he wants to exlpain to me what the common terms are? I find that highly insulting. 

Thanks for your concern, jamthe3 

Harold


----------



## goldsilverpro (Feb 20, 2009)

Newhobby,

It would be great if there were non-chemical ways of dealing with PM scrap but, especially for the non-professional, there aren't any. It is different for the professional refiner. For most all electronic scrap, they incinerate, grind, screen, melt and then ship to a copper smelter. This process is totally free of chemicals. However, this requires lots of expensive equipment and permits. Without this equipment, the process is far more dangerous than when using chemicals. Also, the smelters require a minimum of about a ton of material just to get started. This represents about 5 tons, or more, of electronic scrap.

As a professional refiner for 40 years, I have occasionally messed around with non-chemical methods. These mainly involved mechanical methods of removing the plating, such as shot peening or grinding in a vibratory finisher. However, these require expensive equipment and chemicals at the end.

Some refiners have setup elaborate dry methods whereby they pulverize the electronics and then separate the various materials by such things as gravity separation, flotation, magnetic separation, and eddy current separation. I think most of these companies are out of business.

All in all, I would suggest that you study this forum and learn how to safely use the chemicals. Focus on Lazersteve's methods if you want to do electronic scrap on a small scale.


Concerning the other subject,

Occasionally on the forum, we get engineers, chemists and other professionals who think they know it all just because they have a piece of paper. We also get people who have been involved in some sort of refining (usually in some isolated specific form) for several years and think they know it all. These try to bully their way in, often with insults. Most don't last very long. Some, however, get their comeuppance and blend in and become valuable members. 

Like jamthe3 said, this forum is the only game in town. There is much discussion on the rest of the internet concerning refining. Maybe 10% of this is good information. The rest is wrong or very dangerous or both. The problem is that the novice has no way of sorting this out. The only answer is the goldrefiningforum.com. Only here, can you be guaranteed of being able to find the truth.


----------



## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Feb 21, 2009)

Newhobby:

Rules must be obey...you just have 4 posts in this Forum..Harold_V has posted more than 2251 posts,before you were born Harold_V was already refining precious metals!!!. We all do appreciate Harold`s knowledge and experience.

Newhobby,put your proud on the shelf and try to learn all Harold`s theachings.To you,Harold_V,all my appreciation,admiration and respect.

Manuel


----------

