# DESIGN A REFINERY - Hello Gentlemen



## aflacglobal (Apr 27, 2007)

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Fever (Apr 28, 2007)

Thanks for the explanatory post, Ralph, and welcome to the forums!

Without going into your secrets, is this refinery of yours strictly of a chemical nature? I'm very interested in the fact that you state your operations are so clean. Can you elaborate without giving too much away?

Thanks,

Fever


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## aflacglobal (Apr 28, 2007)

Hydrometallurgical refining technology. With a few twists. LOL
I can Reveal some things.  thanks.


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## lazersteve (Apr 28, 2007)

Ralph do these look familiar:












Welcome to the forum. :wink: 

Steve


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 28, 2007)

I'll tell you what. You tell me what you have so far and I'll feed you some info. The rules are that you provide me with 10 complete pages of exactly how your refinery will operate. I mean in great detail. You said your refinery is near completion. If you do this , I will feed you some info. You are full of shit, my friend, if you don't. Fade off into the distance. You're not only incapable of doing this, you're a scoundrel. Begone.


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## lazersteve (Apr 28, 2007)

Ralph,

I was hoping you could explain to the forum what the machine in the first picture does? It looks like some sort of hydra. I assume it's some sort of self contained gold processor? 

Steve


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## aflacglobal (Apr 28, 2007)

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 28, 2007)

Explain how yours works in detail.


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## aflacglobal (Apr 28, 2007)

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## goldsilverpro (Apr 28, 2007)

I watched the video and read the pdf. It seems like a near duplicate of a Shor refining machine I saw in the early '80's. A standard, self-enclosed, aqua regia machine that you could put in your living room. Nothing really new. Actually, the Shor machine did a very good job. At first glance, the machine in the video seems excellent.

If you base your refinery on this system, you seem to be behind the times. Any large refinery would use the Miller Chlorine Method and a Wohlwill cell to refine the gold. The system in the video, albeit a well designed system, is nothing more than a self-contained aqua regia system. Surely, no one on this forum could afford, or want, your $50,000 to $200,000 system. They are doing the same thing for $100. Better go on down the line. You're wasting your time here.


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## aflacglobal (Apr 28, 2007)

did you forget about the basics. like cost per kg to refine, ease of us,total automation, no handling of chemicals, saftey, not to mention production and purity. I'm not refining grandma's rigns here. LOL

nope try again.

The Miller process is rapid and simple, but it produces gold of only about 99.5 percent purity. The Wohlwill process increases purity to about 99.99 percent by electrolysis. In this process, a casting of impure gold is lowered into an electrolyte solution of hydrochloric acid and gold chloride. Under the influence of an electric current, the casting functions as a positively charged electrode, or anode. The anode dissolves, and the impurities either pass into solution or report to the bottom of the electrorefining tank as an insoluble slime. The gold migrates under the influence of the electric field to a negatively charged electrode called the cathode, where it is restored to a highly pure metallic state.

Although the Wohlwill process produces gold of high purity, it requires the producer to keep on hand a substantial inventory of gold (mainly for the electrolyte), and this is very costly. Processes based on direct chemical purification and recovery from solution as elemental gold can greatly speed gold processing and virtually eliminate expensive in-process inventories.

Thanks 

Ralph


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## darkelf2x1 (Apr 28, 2007)

so how much is it


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## aflacglobal (Apr 28, 2007)

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: 


Ralph


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## aflacglobal (Apr 28, 2007)

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## darkelf2x1 (Apr 28, 2007)

just curious about the price of the system


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## aflacglobal (Apr 28, 2007)

you don,t won't to know brother.
it's more custom for me. but i'm working on it.( to make it simpler that is ) for others.
now this gentlemen is what i'm talking about. feed back people. lol
positive feed back.

Thanks man.

Later
Ralph


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## aflacglobal (Apr 28, 2007)

But you will be happy to know that the machine will be multi versatile.
meaning you can run different material sources


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## aflacglobal (May 1, 2007)

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## sandhog (May 1, 2007)

There's a whole bunch of pm stuff there. It's just kinda hard to find it. 
If you go into detail on each item in a lot it even tells you what type of pm is contained in an item and the pm's weight. Lots of stuff in Fla...Steve?

-Bill


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## varord (Apr 22, 2009)

Could anyone tell where from you buy equipment for Wohlwill purification?


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## Harold_V (Apr 22, 2009)

varord said:


> Could anyone tell where from you buy equipment for Wohlwill purification?


I'm of the opinion you can't buy such equipment. I built the miniature cell I had intended to use, but I never put it in service, being content to chemically refine my gold a second time to insure quality. 

Harold


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## varord (Apr 22, 2009)

Thank you. I have the same problem to find any manufacturer. I invented a new method for refining, really much better then existing processes and can not find any viable company manufacturing equipment for gold refining that I can speak with.


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## aflacglobal (Apr 22, 2009)

varord said:


> Thank you. I have the same problem to find any manufacturer. I invented a new method for refining, really much better then existing processes and can not find any viable company manufacturing equipment for gold refining that I can speak with.



Their out there. Give us a little insight into what your talking about and maybe we can help. You've got all the experts you could want right here.


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## varord (Apr 23, 2009)

Thank you. I can not go inside details very deep as I am currently patenting the method. What I can say it is electrolytic, however it can work with low karat gold and will produce 99+ gold at least. Probably 99.9+ (99+ percent in unoptimized conditions). Very little toxic chemicals, many time less then in Aqua Regia , fast, could be automated and could even be made continuous, low karat gold enters the machine from one side, purified gold comes out from other. 

To make my words little more convincing. I have PhD and I work at Yale University, although invention is not related to the university and was made in my garage


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## varord (Apr 23, 2009)

So actually my method will transform refining scrap gold from alchemy to modern technology, gold will be rolled, will pass trough my machine and comes out pure. Downsized it also may be used for refining gold by individuals.


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## Harold_V (Apr 23, 2009)

What would likely prove to advantage would be for you to get hooked up with a small machine shop. By doing so, you won't be restricted to buying what is available, but can, instead build to your design. From your description, my thoughts are that you have few other choices. 

I was successful in building all of my equipment when I refined, having worked as a machinist/toolmaker, and running my own commercial machine shop. It makes a huge difference in achieving one's goals.

I would comment on one thing (my opinion only). Industry standard for gold is 9995. That should be your target purity if you expect to enjoy success. Lower can put you in a compromising position. 

Harold


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## varord (Apr 23, 2009)

I am mot a refiner and do not want to be one. I invented when I read how they refine today and how ineffective and outdated the processes are. 

I want to find a company I can license the invention and they can do with it whatever they want.


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## Lou (Apr 23, 2009)

Welcome to the board.

Is your PhD in chemistry?

I understand you can not give exact details, but what exactly makes your process so much better than existing processes besides less hazardous chemicals? How thoroughly have you reviewed the patent literature? Have you talked to a patent attorney? What makes you so sure that this invention works well in large volume, fast throughput environments? 

I would be interested in hearing about the process in more detail privately. I am familiar with confidentiality agreements.


As for your query on the Wohlwill cell, I can offer you advice and some materials. They are rather simple to construct.

Regards,

Lou


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## Palladium (Apr 23, 2009)

Yale. I'm impressed.  
If you want an honest review then Lou is your man.


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## varord (Apr 23, 2009)

Thank you, Lou.

Some of your questions.

1. I have access to the patent database and am familiar with it; I have a number of patents in my main specialty field. My own search revealed nothing similar to my invention.

2. I hold a PhD biochemistry, and my education also included physics. My invention uses both principles of physics and chemistry.

3. Yes, this invention could treat very large volumes of scrap gold (as well as can be used in platinum purification from ore as much as I know the field).

4. If you wish to have a further discussion. my email is [email protected] 

We can continue privately.

Arman Pivazayn


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## markqf1 (Apr 23, 2009)

Physics,
Gotta love that.
That's the missing link between refining and recovery.

Prospecting is a combination of the two!

It's hard to refine something you don't have.  

I hope your on to something new and cutting edge.

Let us know your results.

Mark


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## varord (Apr 27, 2009)

markqf1 said:


> Physics,
> Gotta love that.
> That's the missing link between refining and recovery.
> 
> ...




Thank you. 

Hope this work out


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## varord (May 1, 2009)

Strange, my post disappear. 

I wrote that I would appreciate if Lou or others who replay to me privetely will leave comments here as I do not receive any mail. 

I could discuss more open now after I finally filed patent application.


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## Oz (May 1, 2009)

Good to hear you have your patent in. Since you are asking for feedback from Lou and others on the forum, it might be nice to write a general outline of your process so that replies make sense to the rest of us.


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## varord (May 1, 2009)

When I am back. I am leaving right now for a conference for 10 days.


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## Oz (May 2, 2009)

I will look forward to your post. Until then, safe travels.


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## hoardpm (May 3, 2009)

i've seen video of this system working on youtube. When I went to the website they specifications said it required a 386 computer and the people on the website were dressed vintage 1987. I have my doubts that this is a new system.


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