# (Edit*) Zirconium or best suited piping and its use/durability in an industrial application.



## AMS-Pro (Feb 15, 2022)

I was wondering if anyone on here may have experience in working with Zirconium piping in an industrial application? Things I would would like to know would be - How long has the system been used in your facility, what kind of workload strain is it dealing with, what kind of chemicals is being pumped through it in relation to the various used to recover/refine Platinum Group Metals especially chemicals that may be giving you complications, are you noticing any issues with the piping system maintenance wise that needs to be addressed occasionally/regularly? I have more questions then that in regards to zirconium piping for the transfer of corrosive chemicals, but those can be addressed in time. Diameter size of the piping I am interested in using will be in the range of 2in.-8in. for a process currently being developed. The process being developed will be using a cyanide based solution, and an electro recovery, and refinement type of process for PGMs on a larger scale. Anticipated workload will be 1 US ton of nanoparticle concentrate per day. Thank you for your time.


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## AMS-Pro (Feb 16, 2022)

Well, I may be switching ideas from Zirconium piping to Tantalum Piping. It will work well with Cyanide salts, but I am unable to locate information on how it will handle in solution form. I am still interested in zirconium as I am unable to find any information in regard to how it would handle a concentrated solution.

Letter key for the picture:
A - Fully Resistant
B - Slightly Resistant
C - Unsatisfactory

(Edit* Spelling)


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## Lou (Feb 16, 2022)

We use both Ta and Zr and are in Ohio.

What is your question exactly?


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## AMS-Pro (Feb 16, 2022)

Well basically, I'll be building and enclosed, closed loop, mostly automatized system. I'm concerned about seam points, and how often they may be susceptible to leaking. I have considered welding the seams, but this will affect the ease of maintenance if needed, or when optimizing the system for better efficiency. I'm also worried about the make up of the piping, and if there is traces of iron, or other metals that the cyanide solution could corrode and contaminate the solution or weaken the structure, mainly at any weld points. Some of the equipment will have to be made out of the piping as well, to keep the equipment material consistent, so any welds point there will be of concern. The system will have to be grounded for the electrolytic aspect of it, and I'm wondering if there will be any affects on the piping from charged alkaline cyanide as it can be even more corrosive. The system will be pressurized, so psi limits are a concern too with what the pipes can handle as the pipes will be in the smaller diameter range.
I apologize if I'm being a little vague, there is no patent yet, so exact proprietary design, and process cannot be disclosed.

Edit* Depending on what you run through your system, is there concern of crystal buildup inside the system, and how often does it need to be cleaned? It is anticipated to do a weekly internal inspection of the system, but that may have to be daily if there is residue or similar build up inside the pipes. Any cleaner used, if needed, cannot be acidic.

Edit edit* Other than that, is there any issues that you're dealing with in your system that I may need to look for, and pay attention to? Or things you may have noticed that negatively affect the system in some way, and could've been done better?


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## AMS-Pro (Feb 16, 2022)

I appreciate your time, and response to this. Any information you can give me on any of it that I would need to pay attention to would be great. Between my investors and myself, I know a lot of money is going to be thrown at this, and I do not want to have to rebuild halfway through because of some surprise issues from the material used.


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## AMS-Pro (Feb 17, 2022)

Lou said:


> We use both Ta and Zr and are in Ohio.
> 
> What is your question exactly?


I was wondering if you had a chance to look over my questions, I am very interested in whatever experience you may have with this material that could help me arrive at a decision, so that I may continue in my design process. I do have information from various manufacturers, but their product information, and what happens with their product over time in working environments, can be two very different things. Thank you again for your time, I look forward to your response.


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## AMS-Pro (Feb 26, 2022)

Alright, the lack of response to questions was certainly discouraging. What a shame. Even a little help would've been beneficial. I know there's enough people on here in an industry that deals with these type of materials, and systems. After having to go a different route to find out more real world information that was not from the manufacturer, I am happy to at least be able to help others here that may be dealing with similar questions.

The following information is for those of you looking for answers to similar questions, in the process of building your own system, and unable to get any help on the topic from a separate source. Hopefully the following information will help you, and get you pointed in the right direction.

I spent the past week talking with a couple engineers at a few industrial contacts I have, and was able to learn quite a bit. This especially includes the code I would need to follow to build my system and be legal.

ASME B31.3 is the code for process piping that you will need to research and abide. This will give you all the guidelines you'll need to follow, to stay legal, safe, and be able to choose the right material suitable for your application. Make sure to follow the most recent code available.

The material I ended up deciding on is AL-6XN, this will be the optimal material suitable for my design, not just with piping, but other equipment builds as well.

As I progress in my design and build, I will include any information I learn pertaining to piping material that may be helpful, and beneficial to those of you interested in the topic.

Thank you for reading, and I hope the information helps you in your journey.

Edit* Spelling, grammar.


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## Lou (Feb 26, 2022)

I’m glad you were able to find help. I know this is a public forum but in my opinion, you were being FAR TOO VAGUE.

I’ve given invited guest lecture on corrosion science with focus on the PGMs. If I couldn’t help, I would at least know someone who can at Special Metals, Timet, or ATI.

Asking what you asked with no specifics (P, T, concentration of reagents, velocities, abrasives in stream etc) doesn’t make it easy.

All I could give you is rough advice. 

Good luck on your project, fellow Buckeye!


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## AMS-Pro (Feb 27, 2022)

Hello Lou, how are you?

Thank you, I had talked to the several engineers at several places to keep it a bit vague.

Very cool, and I will keep that in mind when I get further into the process.

I suppose I could give you generalized specifics estimated on my end that I'll be starting with. Pipe diameter will range from 2"-8", 80-100 PSI, Ideal temperature will be 185*°*F (85*°*C), Concentration of reagent starting will be ( 2.5 Lbs. 99% KCN + 2 Lbs. Lime / 1 ton of water ), Velocity 12.26 fps average, Abrasives 53-149 microns ideally / dissolved 70%-95% in solution.

These numbers will change, or be modified for efficiency/tolerances, but they should give you an idea.

If you have a better suggestion than AL-6XN as a material, or options to look at, that would be great. I will have to do welded seams on almost everything, but I am concerned about the bolted point seams where it meets up with the pumps, cyclones, tanks, filters, inspection points, electrowinning machine, etc..

I need a material that will have longevity in rough environments, with minimal wear and maintenance requirements. Obviously seals, equipment, and smaller stuff will have to be maintained regularly. But I'm not wanting that to include piping too as it will be a pain to get to once the system/setup is condensed.

The setup will be semi portable, and will have stresses from when it's transported (It will have an initial inspection after every move.). Although there would be absorbers for this, it is still a concern over the longevity.

The current scaled down prototype/proof of concept is housed in 1 IOS container.

The first full size prototype setup/build will be housed in multiple specialized ISO container like housings to allow room for modifications, and design. 1 for the PGM recovery/refining equipment, 1 for the cyanide recovery/recycling equipment, and 1 for the various tanks and storage. The final product will condense all of these to 1 Specialized ISO container like housing at full scale, once the system/setup is fine tuned for efficiency, weak points identified, and the design/modifications are finalized.

Thank you again for your response Lou, I look forward to your next reply.

Edit* Spelling, punctuation.


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## AMS-Pro (Mar 5, 2022)

Well, a shipment of multiple pipe sizes, flange sizes/types, various spiral wound gaskets, sheeting, fittings are on the way to the shop. I'm looking forward to commencing on pressure tests, stress test, vibration tests, weld tests, corrosion tests, and so on. It's great to move on to the next step, but lord it is going to be tedious, and trying. I look forward to what the results will be in real time expected stresses to failure points. I definitely need the data. Also ordered are various PTFE lined/coated options with fittings/flange types to test as well. Things are going to be interesting, that's for sure.


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