# Is this crucible usable?



## Higashi (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi,

I've been looking at the various crucibles on the net especially on Ebay.com... well, the price are reasonable and within my expectation, but shipping charges often cost more than the item and the effective net cost is a heart breaking one.

I tried searching for local sources, that which i found are all for industrial use, always too big and/or too expensive. I guess not many people do metal casting as a hobby where i come from.

But i found many scientific lab suppliers which stock (porcelain) crucibles meant for science lab use. Are they good enough for melting gold?

It's cheap enough. A 50ml one cost like 1/2 a Big Mac.

I'll be using them with Oxy-Acetylene torch, if it matters.

Good? No good?


Here's the pic :


----------



## lazersteve (Aug 2, 2010)

They are very fragile and break easily if subjected to thermal shock.

Check my website, I sell all sorts of crucibles and dishes and ship world wide. If you don't find what you want, I'll get it for you.

http://goldrecovery.us

Steve


----------



## copperkid_18 (Aug 2, 2010)

I was using one today for lead and it shattered so, DO NOT BUY THEM! They are extremely fragile! \


CK_18


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Aug 2, 2010)

God I whish you would not do things like this for a few years. But you are a head strong kid. 8)


----------



## Higashi (Aug 2, 2010)

lazersteve said:


> They are very fragile and break easily if subjected to thermal shock.
> 
> Check my website, I sell all sorts of crucibles and dishes and ship world wide. If you don't find what you want, I'll get it for you.
> 
> ...



Steve,

Your website is the first one I went to when looking for related stuffs especially, the price for melting dish and crucible is so attractive I wonder if you could really make profit out of it. I so much wish I would buy from you to support the websites for all the information you shared with us all. However as has been said, shipping charge for anything in the US to my country is ridiculous. The same for all US website. 

I'll take a visit to your site again, and contact you later.


I wonder, if i buy plain porcelain stuffs, a very thick one, for example like a sink or toilet bowl, would it stand the heat from oxy-acetylene torch? ahahahaha... melting gold in a toilet bowl, that should be fun. I live in an area where there are a lot of ceramic and tiles factories. Maybe not a toilet bowl, but something very thick.


p/s : Steve, just a suggestion, why don't you use CMS like Joomla? You can also protect contents from non-members. Browsing it on Firefox doesn't get me anywhere, it keeps cycling between the frontpage and the second page (I Agree / I Don't Agree). IE-8 takes me inside but the layout doesn't work well.


----------



## Higashi (Aug 2, 2010)

copperkid_18 said:


> I was using one today for lead and it shattered so, DO NOT BUY THEM! They are extremely fragile! \
> 
> 
> CK_18



wow... advice taken.


----------



## lazersteve (Aug 2, 2010)

Higashi said:


> Your website is the first one I went to when looking for related stuffs especially, the price for melting dish and crucible is so attractive I wonder if you could really make profit out of it. I so much wish I would buy from you to support the websites for all the information you shared with us all. However as has been said, shipping charge for anything in the US to my country is ridiculous. The same for all US website.







Higashi said:


> I wonder, if i buy plain porcelain stuffs, a very thick one, for example like a sink or toilet bowl, would it stand the heat from oxy-acetylene torch? ahahahaha... melting gold in a toilet bowl, that should be fun. I live in an area where there are a lot of ceramic and tiles factories. Maybe not a toilet bowl, but something very thick.



It's not a matter of thickness, it's a matter of thermal expansion. 



Higashi said:


> p/s : Steve, just a suggestion, why don't you use CMS like Joomla? You can also protect contents from non-members. Browsing it on Firefox doesn't get me anywhere, it keeps cycling between the frontpage and the second page (I Agree / I Don't Agree). IE-8 takes me inside but the layout doesn't work well.



You need to install the IE Tab plug in for FF and add my site to the IE Tabs list (Tools--> IE Tab Options--> Add-->http://goldrecovery.us-->OK). You will also have to allow Active X scripting and cookies for my site in your browser and all third party Security Software (Black Ice, Zone Alarm, Norton Internet Security Suite, etc.). Once you are in you'll need the FF Media Player Plug-In (link on my site). 

I can work with you on the shipping. The Paypal calculator is not the best in the world at estimating actual shipping costs. Email me a list of what you want and I'll give you an actual shipping quote.

Steve


----------



## goldenchild (Aug 2, 2010)

Higashi said:


> I wonder, if i buy plain porcelain stuffs, a very thick one, for example like a sink or toilet bowl, would it stand the heat from oxy-acetylene torch? ahahahaha... melting gold in a toilet bowl, that should be fun.



If you attempted this I fear you would be flushing money down the toilet :lol:


----------



## copperkid_18 (Aug 2, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> God I whish you would not do things like this for a few years. But you are a head strong kid. 8)



BR, I understand what you mean. I am going to quit. I just had some wheel weights I had to melt so I could sell them as soft lead. This is sort of off subject but the weird thing is I cannot find enough computers to process and am getting sort of bored. I can only find 1-2 a week. Any ideas? Thanks, ck


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Aug 2, 2010)

copperkid_18 said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > God I whish you would not do things like this for a few years. But you are a head strong kid. 8)
> ...



I haven't found a computer on the street in 6-8 months. Run you an add on craiglist and see what you get. Would your dad, mom or a friend carry you to pick them up?


----------



## copperkid_18 (Aug 2, 2010)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> I haven't found a computer on the street in 6-8 months. Run you an add on craiglist and see what you get. Would your dad, mom or a friend carry you to pick them up?



I don't have a craigslist in my area and yes my parents will even stop to pick them up if they see them on the street. Where do you get your computers and does anyone else have any ideas??? Thx, CK


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Aug 3, 2010)

copperkid_18 said:


> I don't have a craigslist in my area and yes my parents will even stop to pick them up if they see them on the street. Where do you get your computers and does anyone else have any ideas??? Thx, CK



I see what you are talking about, And I rememmber in the early 70's my dad had 3 project's in your area. Garden City, Witchita & Kansas City. There is not much in your area. Try taking some poster board and making sighn's and posting in the store windows if owner's will let you in a given area that your parent's are willing to help you with. Or any public place that will let you, or try free adds in the local papers.


----------



## jimdoc (Aug 3, 2010)

CK,
Don't give up.Every time it gets really slow,I always seem to get a call for a decent amount.I just got 4 pickup truck loads last week from a company that I made a pickup from before.I went to that company through a Craigslist ad for a free computer desk for my niece,and when I got there I saw they had a bunch of stuff together like they were cleaning out.So I asked them if they had anybody to recycle their old computers and gave them my card.I picked up a bunch of stuff from them then,with the computer desk.

Months have gone by,and I was thinking they forgot about me and then I get a call.
This time I got about 40-50 towers and about 10 servers,12 laptops, and at least 100 lbs of cables and wires.
The bad part is I take the CRT monitors they have also.
Those monitors are black 17" Dell's and all working,so I put an ad on Craigslist for free monitors.Still waiting for somebody to pick up the first of them,and I have to go back and pickup 10 more brand new in the box.

Just stick in there and have patience.You can't go wrong with saving up all you can get,while learning all you can from the forum.
I tried to get my nephew started doing this so he could save up some money for a car,and I would refine his gold for him,but he can't be bothered.So your having the interest to learn is a great starting point.Talk to people at your school,the library,spread the word around that you recycle computersMaybe post notes on any message boards if you don't have Craigslist or Freecycle in your area.

Being an enterprising kid that can't drive yet should get a lot more people willing to deliver to you.Its worth a try anyway.

Jim


----------



## Barren Realms 007 (Aug 3, 2010)

jimdoc said:


> CK,
> Don't give up.Every time it gets really slow,I always seem to get a call for a decent amount.I just got 4 pickup truck loads last week from a company that I made a pickup from before.I went to that company through a Craigslist ad for a free computer desk for my niece,and when I got there I saw they had a bunch of stuff together like they were cleaning out.So I asked them if they had anybody to recycle their old computers and gave them my card.I picked up a bunch of stuff from them then,with the computer desk.
> 
> Months have gone by,and I was thinking they forgot about me and then I get a call.
> ...



Try putting a couple of the monitors in your front yard with fore sale sighn. $3.00.

He might not be able to drive a car, but he might be ble to get a moped and put a small trailor attached to it. A 5gal can of gas add off he goes. 

CK, check with your local trades people and mechanics and pick up thier metals as well. You can start with copper wire, aluminum, brass, electric motor, alternators. It will add up quick at your age. When I was your age I tore the copper out of motors and picked up 5c coke bottle. Pick up aluminum cans and crush them to keep your space small.


----------



## Noxx (Aug 3, 2010)

lazersteve said:


> It's not a matter of thickness, it's a matter of expansion.



Gotta tell this to my girlfriend.

Haha just kidding


----------



## Harold_V (Aug 3, 2010)

Good one, Noxx!

Harold


----------



## butcher (Aug 3, 2010)

Copper Kid, do not give up you are not a quitter, when things get tough the tough get going.

Study, you have a world of information here at your finger tips, and the materials will come, look into processing the higher value materials, or buying and selling, work for your neighbors, save your money, make wise decisions, you are very smart and you will succeed in whatever your goal is but giving up is not the way, electronic scrap is everywhere, the education is where the value is, working hard and studying the gold will come.


----------



## joem (Aug 3, 2010)

Noxx said:


> lazersteve said:
> 
> 
> > It's not a matter of thickness, it's a matter of expansion.
> ...



Yeah that's it Noxx hahahaha


----------



## Higashi (Aug 3, 2010)

copperkid_18 said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > God I whish you would not do things like this for a few years. But you are a head strong kid. 8)
> ...



For the time being why not do it for fun, which doesn't have to involve gold or computers. Maybe alloys into separate elemental metals.

Maybe try other kind of electronics which has the possibility of it containing other kind of metals. Maybe this would help you with the skill of detecting presence of different type of metals rather than skill in refining.

Maybe you could test different methods of recovering. Like, for example trying solvents which could possibly strip away solder mask. Maybe you could find the best way to depopulate chips and stuffs off a PCB and have it clean from tin and lead. Maybe find a way to de-laminate multi-layer PCB.

but hey, i'm a noob too... maybe it's not a good idea, maybe it is.

If melting metals satisfy you, maybe divert your attention into making better DIY furnace and start a hobby in (scrap) metal casting before you find a good way/source to get scraps containing PM. It's a related skill and help greatly.

Unless you already make this a career for making a living, there's no reason to quit, its' just in progress.


----------



## qst42know (Aug 3, 2010)

> I just had some wheel weights I had to melt so I could sell them as soft lead. This is sort of off subject but the weird thing is I cannot find enough computers to process and am getting sort of bored. I can only find 1-2 a week. Any ideas? Thanks, ck



This is unrelated to PM's but cast iron is well suited for melting lead. Iron ladles or no name 6" skillets often turn up at garage sales. If you get lucky you may find an old plumbers lead pot. 

Have you considered other sources besides e-scrap?

While you are at garage sales keep an eye out for gold filled and sterling jewelery. You may even chance into some karat pieces as well. The real stuff is almost always marked. You will need to study a bit on how the real stuff is hallmarked.


----------



## gorfman6154 (Aug 3, 2010)

Copperkid_18, there are all kinds of ways to get scrap, and remember there is more than just computers, here are just a few thoughts off the top of my head

yard sales
Thrift stores
Nifty nickle newspapers
Junk yards/Scrap yards
Scrap haulers
Computer repair shops
Transfer stations/ city or county dumps
Photo shops and photographers for fixer or film
Dentists, doctors, clinics, vets, for x-ray film
Apartment complexes, scrap from evictions and move outs
Print shops for litho film
Government auctions, city, county, state and federal
auto repair shops for catalytic converters and oxygen sensors
buying scrap or broken gold jewelry 
Jewelry stores and watch repair shops for silver button batteries and jewelers wastes
Silver plated and Gold plated household goods, try and get them for free or really cheap

It will take some effort on your part, but the stuff is out there, you just have to find it.

This should get you started. Print up some business cards, and fliers, start handing them out to everyone. Start making contacts with all your local businesses, family and friends. everybody is always upgrading or throwing out computers. Eventually you will get that call.

In the meantime, read, study and learn all you can about recycling, recovery and refining. 

Best of luck, Gary


----------



## Chumbawamba (Aug 4, 2010)

What Gary said, and I would add public storage auctions for tenants that didn't pay their bill. Some people make a living out of it.

I love hanging out in thrift stores when I have some spare time. There's always cool stuff to be found there. For the independent stores (not Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc.) you can probably work out a deal with them to take their worthless electronics off their hands. The Goodwills and SA's here in California have e-scrap programs already, having gotten savvy about e-scrao several years back, so they take care of their own stuff. But in other states it might be different, and the independent thrift stores will usually not have a convenient way to discard their scrap computers and such.

As others have noted, don't overlook cans & bottles if your state has a redemption program. I was able to buy two ounces of gold across two years by saving up the proceeds from my can & bottle recycling. I would try to collect at least 20 containers a day (equals $1 in California redemption value, $30/month) but soon found myself sometimes doing triple that. I would put the money in my son's piggy bank and then on his b-day I would open it up and take the money down to the gold dealer. So in this way I did what the alchemists of the middle centuries were never able to do: I turned based metals into precious metals! 

Keep at it. It takes time to build a business, which is what you're doing. And that you're starting so young gives you a tremendous advantage. Don't fret, you're doing just fine. Just keep working hard and it will pay off.


----------



## Higashi (Aug 4, 2010)

Chumbawamba said:


> Keep at it. It takes time to build a business, which is what you're doing. And that you're starting so young gives you a tremendous advantage. Don't fret, you're doing just fine. Just keep working hard and it will pay off.



Yeap, building a business is supposed to be tough, that's how it is. Take it easy, one at a time, will get you going strong and steady a long time.


and now back to the topic... :lol: can i at least for the time being just melt gold on ceramic fibre blanket?
will refine it later. just want to get it into a small form factor so to make it easier to work with in chemicals.

saw a video on youtube, someone did just that before dumping the molten gold into a bucket full of water.


----------



## dtectr (Aug 4, 2010)

Higashi said:


> Chumbawamba said:
> 
> 
> > Keep at it. It takes time to build a business, which is what you're doing. And that you're starting so young gives you a tremendous advantage. Don't fret, you're doing just fine. Just keep working hard and it will pay off.
> ...



How much are you wanting to pour at one time? if small buttons, some on this forum have advocated drilling proper size holes in good quality charcoal briquettes. the charcoal also produces a reducing atmoshere which tends to protect your metal from excess oxidation during the melt & pour. 

Charcoal blocks have been used for years by jewelry crafstmen as long as the button didn't need to be "pretty"; if it was to be reworked, forged, drawn or etc. A proper sized bowl is ground into the surface & smoothed, with a groove to pour from - the residual carbon acts as a mold release, so if you want to make "shot", you simply melt & pour into water. be aware that this is a "one time only" kind of thing - it must be ground out again before it can be reused. This could at least buy you time until you are able to find a suitable crucible.

just one point of view from my experiences.

jordan


----------



## Higashi (Aug 9, 2010)

dtectr said:


> Higashi said:
> 
> 
> > Chumbawamba said:
> ...



It's okay Jordan, found a company that sells Morganite's _Salamander Super_ & _Starrbide_ crucible close to home.

Would the _Salamander Super_ works fine with Gold?

Here's what the manufacturer says :



> SALAMANDER SUPER
> 
> DESCRIPTION
> SALAMANDER SUPER is a high quality *ceramic bonded* *clay graphite* crucible range manufactured by plastic forming techniques.
> ...



Yes? no? maybe?... I'm incinerating my PM source, and for some reason have to melt all the metal into big chunks, and later remelt them and make flakes to be worked with acids. So i think use of flux is unavoidable. Will it stand the corrosion from the use of flux?

I'm thinking of getting A2, A3 or A4 size. Too big? Will build a simple furnace using steel shell (about the size of 16kg LPG tank) and 2" or 3" of kaowool lining and no ceramic rigidizer and no ITC-100. I will use propane+butane burner, burning 4-6 kg per hour of LPG, with around 4m3/minute of forced air. Do you think it will provide enough heat to raise the temperature to Au melting point? Did some reading but i feel kinda lost, too much to read in too short of a time.


----------



## dtectr (Aug 9, 2010)

Higashi said:


> dtectr said:
> 
> 
> > Higashi said:
> ...


Wow!, my friend! WAY past my level of expertise. i hope that some of the "heavy's" weigh in (pun COMPLETELY intended), with experience on the scale you are referring to. With your diligent research, though, i predict that you will be successful once you find what you need!
best of luck
jordan


----------



## Higashi (Aug 10, 2010)

dtectr said:


> Higashi said:
> 
> 
> > dtectr said:
> ...



emmm... i'm afraid i don't completely get what you're trying to say, english is not my first language. i'm a totlal noob too...

i know the manufacturer already mention that the small size salamander is oftenly used for PM, but i don't trust everything said by people selling stuffs. like, there could be some exceptions or do's & dont's regarding the use of the item that they dont tell.

just as a note to myself and other people who build their own burner equipped with forced air turbine, did some maths today, stoichiometrically for every kg/hr of propane/butane you need 0.24 m3/minute of air (assuming oxygen content in air is 20.95%). One might want to add 15%-20% excess air to compensate for non-ideal combustion. 4m3/minute for 6kg/hr of LPG is too much. Should be between 1.5-2.0 m3/minute.

1kg of propane/butane release approximately 50 Mega Joule of heat.

1kg of gold needs 134,209 Joule to reach 1064.8 Celcius from 24.8 Celcius, ideally. (specific heat 129 Jouile per Kg per Kelvin).

please correct me if i'm wrong.


----------



## dtectr (Aug 10, 2010)

what I am trying to say is, your level of expertise & knowledge of physics involved is far beyond mine; therefore, those who have much more expertise in these areas from the forum ("heavies" short for "heavyweights", in other words, these people's knowledge & experience gives their words the weight of great authority) should "weigh in", (a term from professional fighting,; when a fighter "weighs in", he is placed in a specific weight class & he puts his name among the pool of potential fighters in a specific fighting event).

the joke kind of loses something in the tanslation.

i'm sure one of these "heavies" will "weigh in" on this topic & share their considerable experience & knowledge with you.

good luck.


----------

