# MC999 eBay Indefinite Selling Restriction



## justinhcase

I have been working very hard this year to get a small venture up and running.



Had a small problem on my trial run as the gold marked crashed with out warning.so asked every one who had won gold at stupidly low prices if they would mind me canceling the sale's.

Surprise surprise only one woman agreed(she later rescinded he permission and complained and left neutral feed back).

I upheld the transaction to all but two people who I gave a full refund to.

The first was a miss-listing as I had not noticed the watch T-bar was not hallmarked tho it had been won at auction.(well I had noticed at point of acquisition but forgot by the time I did the listing.)

This meant that I could not sell it as gold due to the Hallmark act and when I tried to explain to the buyer he became very insulting and called me a liar.

The second was a woman in the U.S.A. even tho it was at a loss I tried to post the item but found she had chosen the U.K. postal option so wanted me to pay for the hole transatlantic trip.the cost of P&P was more than the item so I refunded her but still got called a "rip off merchant"

Now ebay has suspended my selling privileges indefinitely.

I am left with stock I bought based on the sale's figures for my ebay account.

I could recoup some of my money by processing them but they are above the level that would make that profitable.

I have to return several lot's a week to ebay from people who are actively trying to defraud people ,I have never been able to get them banned despite my best efforts.

Why have they chosen to ban some one who is letting people have access to gold items for not much more than the spot price of the contained metals.

It is beyond reason,I am licensed by the S.I.A. and have a full security background.my main work is guarding high value assets for local government body's and the court system.

Cant they ask if they have a concern instead of closing down a very important part of a very young business.

I have not even made enough to justify the cost of photographic equipment needed to list things properly.

What am I to Do??


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## Palladium

Reguardless of if the market crashed or not you have to honor your sales contract. and i would have left negative feedback to. I can't imagine selling a gold contract for delivery at a future date and then telling my buyer i can't deliver because the price went down and ill lose money. with those ethics you won't be in the gold business long.


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## solar_plasma

There is a thread on how to be on the safe side dealing with gold at alternating spot prices. It is about buying short positions along with buying real gold (which is a kind of long position).


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## justinhcase

Well I asked politely and then payed out.
It was my first attempt at stepping up to gold.
Funny enough in the silver market thing's where much more gentlemanly.
Even on the auction room floor if a lot has not made a reasonable price the auctioneer will simply say "No Sale" and the floor will say "o Well" and move onto the next lot.
I honored every one except one who wanted free posting and one slight technical error in fifty lot's..
Not really an attempt to defraud any one so why treat it like so.


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## solar_plasma

A contract is a contract is a contract.


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## solar_plasma

How would you feel, if I as a buyer always would make the far highest bid and only stay to my word, if I won the auction at a price I like? Then you sellers would call me a fun bidder.


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## justinhcase

solar_plasma said:


> A contract is a contract is a contract.


exactly.
The terms allow for the the canceling of sales due to a listing error which was the reason for holding the watch T-Bar
I will not even try to explain why I can't send to the U.S. for £2.
But it is sad that Banks and Stock brokers can cease trading when they run into a crash,then get bailed out by the government but an honest trader is expected to shoulder any burden. 
Even though the problem was caused by three or four governments flooding the market with half price gold with out warning


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## Ian_B

justinhcase said:


> Even on the auction room floor if a lot has not made a reasonable price the auctioneer will simply say "No Sale" and the floor will say "o Well" and move onto the next lot.



If I go to an auction and they have "no reserve" on the items and I'm the highest bidder... regardless of how low the item sells for to me I will be damned if they pass the item with me being the highest bidder... if the auctioneer isn't happy with a price he is getting well that's just tough if they don't state it is a no reserve.

I have ZERO problem standing up in the middle of the auction and asking the auctioneer whats going on and why are you passing on the item when I'm the highest bidder.

I had a run in recently with a consignor bidding his own items up I called it out in the middle of the sale. 

Just because the item doesn't sell for what you want it to sell for gives you no right to try to wiggle your way out of selling it. irregardless of if your trying to find some technicality to not sell the items for...

just my 2 cents


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## Palladium

The one thing more valuable than gold in this business is a man's word and his reputation. without that their is no business. I have client's that with just my phone call will transfer large amounts of metals or money. Let me fail to keep my word and all that goes away. Not bitching about you just telling you some advice.


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## Pantherlikher

Yep. Fleabay at it's finest.

You should have explained everything to the winning bidders and allowed them to decide if they still want the item. 
The shipping however is a different story. You should have figured out shipping and sent her the bill. Not just cancel.

B.S.
Get a hold of fleabay police and explain as best as possible each situation and ask them to help you come to an agreement to get your account back.


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## justinhcase

Well if I had let the miss listed item go I would have been a criminal under the hallmark act.
Because I had neglected to state it was being sold as a watch T-bar and not being sold as gold which it is.
I depend on a spotless record for my security license and could not take the risk as any problems would loos my main income.
I did explain every thing correctly and politely but have to say I do not respond well to being called a liar.
If people are not polite and amicable to a far resolution I proffer not to associate with them at all.
Having worked in conflict resolution for over twenty years my main observation is that it is only a far solution if both side's are disappointed.
My methods are the result of some hard won lessons mediating in places police and government officials would not go by them self's and defending high value assets so I am enjoying the move to the much more docile and low stress environment of Gold trading.
I have to say compared to my last two businesses which are still running this one is by far the easiest to set up and run.once the fine tuning is finished I can not see a problem.
Just the V.A.T. savings on my next set of work shops will be unbelievable compared to the way my sound system business has been treated.
It is a pity eBay is set to an automated set of programed instructions.the people who complained only have two or three purchases to there account and from the way they knew the eBay system I would have to conclude that they where professional buyers who use multiple identity's to bully and control there sellers.
I just have had the one identity for ten years and did not have any of this trouble with silver.
Dishonest bully's are one of my favorite things to eat.


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## justinhcase

Just finished a phone marathon with eBay.
It turned out that according to them I was selling items at suspiciously low prices with out a proper description.
I explained that I could show sale's receipts for every thing and prove I had sold them for more than the the metal content and the descriptions where very accurate .
The problem had nothing to do with my feed back.
It was made by a team reviewing my sales and coming to the conclusion my sale's model would be open to "miss use" what ever that is meant to mean.
But no appeal ,no way to ever undo it ,just feel free to buy as much as you want but never ever try to sell any thing on ebay ever again.
I am totally speechless.I would have loved to get more money for my kit and made do with a slim profit as I classed it as research.
What a kick in the guts.
There are convicted criminals who only get a ban on trading the item they where convicted of an offense for.
Just go's to show if you start to make any money in this country some one will close you down.


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## etack

Ian_B said:


> I had a run in recently with a consignor bidding his own items up I called it out in the middle of the sale.



There is nothing wrong with this and if its not stated in the bidding agreement its OK. If they want their item back it sometimes the only way to get it out of the auction without paying a large fee. Sometimes this is the cheaper way to go. if you wanted the item bid what you think its worth and stop. Why would you complain and waste others time by stopping an auction. I would assume this could get your bid not recognized or you ran up just for fun.

As far as the OP if you have your account closed down for this open another one and go on with your business. If people in China can do it why not you. this time only have 24hr sales with no international shopping.

Eric


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## justinhcase

I know every body else is comfortable using false identity now and again but having worked in a trusted position for so long I am kind of stuck with a mental block.
I want to avoid any thing that would leave my business open to misinterpretation.
With this activity it is not a matter of if the police take an interest but more of when.
I have found that if you have used any thing that is considered deceptive they will find it and it will tar every thing else you are doing with the same very black brush.
I will simply have to employ yet an other person who is untarnished with suspicion and give them a % of an already small pot.
My test run had only identified the items that would give the best return over all and which where best processed.
My next more focused run( which I now have in a box doing nothing) would have given some firm figures as to profitability.
I will just have to process every thing I get and avoid dealing in items as much as possible at least that is completely V.A.T. Exempt
I was having real problems working out a polymorphic stock tracking system which could cope with the tracking needed to run divers lots into different taxing codes.Now I will not have to because every thing will go to bullion.
But when it turn's out I destroyed a historical important piece please remember I did try to set up a direct sale's route LOL.(just thought I should say that is a joke i never get any thing above the junk line)
Much thanks for the advice.
And be very polite and respectful to Auctioneers.Even if they miss your winning bid on a brilliant item.
They will control not just that auction but probably you will run into the same faces again an again as you travel.
They have a duel position of trust they have to weigh getting a good price for the clients who bring them lot's and a far selling floor for the people paying the bills.
Not an easy position to be in but if you give them some space and respect they will eventually reward you when you ask to drop the cost of unwanted lot's.
Having an auctioneer who looks to you before ever closing the bidding is a real help.


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## justinhcase

Some one has a real scene of humor,now they have sent me a £75 voucher to thank me for my patience.
What am I meant to do with that,buy a rope to hang my self by.
A big warning to any one thinking about putting to much effort into your ebay listings.
Unless you are pretending to be an old granny eBay's requirement do not rely on any particular level of turnover, profit, etc. You can be making a continual loss but will still be considered a Business Seller on eBay, which involves displaying compliant T&C and your contact details.................
Even if you are just one bloke working out of a shed 2m by 2m in your spare time.
Being over successful is not a thing I am use to so am completely face smacked to find out after day's of digging what the problem actually was.
Even if they had just explained it would have saved me several days of grief.
And I would never have invested my time with them at all.


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## Anonymous

There's an easy way out of this Justin.

Restrict your auctions to the UK.


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## Captobvious

spaceships said:


> There's an easy way out of this Justin.
> 
> Restrict your auctions to the UK.



Agreed, my listings for example are USA Only, does a nice job usually of keeping stress levels down in regards to legalities and shipping charges


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## justinhcase

Well now I know it is to late.
An automatic life long ban from all selling no notice or questions just bad assumptions based on incomplete data.
just lost the little bonus of being able to sell any thing on ebay for life.
Never even thought I was at a level that would need for me to look into registering as a business.
Only put £500 worth of kit I had acquired and cherry picked from my scrap stream.
Why they would mistake a half headed idiot like myself as a threat I will never know.


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## Anonymous

Sadly mate that's the way eBay works.

Putting an auction up that says you'll ship anywhere is a hiding to nowhere unless you're prepared to do it come what may.


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## Ian_B

Create a new E-bay name...?


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## justinhcase

no i am thinking more of a add campaign offering 10% more for scrap gold and silver than the average price people get on eBay.
I think if you make a big point about the 17% luxemburg tax and insertion fees then tie it in to the eBay fraud statistics you may be able to attract a good portion of triad.
particularly if you could show all lots where opened and inspected by some sort of bonded impartial agent.may be a local court clerk would be able to be employed just to open mail and log the content's
pity i don't have the funds to under right such a venture all by my self.
i will have to just draw up the proposal and pitch it to lightly investors.
may never lead to any thing but at least it is a vague hope of a useful tactic.i bet the solicitors will have a shed load of objections based on FleeBay's legal response.
But am not ruling any thing out at this early stage :twisted:


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## macfixer01

Ian_B said:


> Create a new E-bay name...?




Easy enough to try but if it works, it may not work for long. I've never had any issues as a seller with Ebay or Paypal. I've only been buying for the last several years though just because selling got to be a hassle, and my job doesn't allow the free time needed. I try to remember useful information I come across though, even if it isn't currently important to me but may be in the future. I was watching videos recently about some Ebay scams and one of the related videos that was recommended by YouTube had to do with getting a new Paypal seller account set up after being banned by Paypal for any reason. It was just a come-on to sell an eBook and may not directly apply anyway. What the video was saying though was that if any piece of information on the new account you created matched the old one (like mailing address, email address, credit card#, etc.) then Paypal would eventually link the two accounts and cancel the new one also. As I recall the commenters agreed Paypal does do this, but also said the techniques described to circumvent them finding out didn't really work. In any case, I'm just assuming that since Ebay runs Paypal that they both do pretty much the same checking?


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## pgms4me

You are correct. Ebay does have a computer matching program.You cant use the same name,address,social security numbers or any credit card or bank account numbers that were used in the old account.You can open one using a family member's name because they are a different person,but if you mess up you could be endangering their chances of being banned.
The buyer is always right on ebay. I believe what ebay was telling you in their decision is that your selling model was too open for abuse to be used on ebay. Other people using it would not be as honest as you were. My son in law was a beginning user of ebay in the antiques business and greatly contributed to their success, but he is now banned for life because he didnt answer unhappy customers responses in time. the reason he didnt is because he couldnt,as he was in the hospital trying to recover from an operation that didnt go as planned. Ebay couldnt care less about what happened to him.
As for myself,I have strived to be the best I can be on ebay and offer 14 day money back warranty on anything i sell, Still I managed to get banned from the bullion category because a few sellers that didnt like my low prices got together and bought just enough items from me to lower my seller status(Low detailed seller ratings for item not as described). They did this by leaving low detailed seller ratings on the items they bought. I managed to get a hold of most of my buyers and tell them where to find my items in other listing categories. I could not find out who the perpetraters were because they did not leave bad feedback or send any complaints. Ebay had a policy of not letting sellers see who leaves lo DSR's. It took me 6 months to prove that there was nothing wrong with those items.i finally received a sort of apology letter, but i still lost my 2% discount on final value fees for 6 months. But really ,these problems are no worse than other situations that we all go through in life. Ebay is not an easybay, but I am thankful for it


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## justinhcase

Well I think they are acting like an Autistic client of mine.
They egg me on and offer me free listings then ban me when I use only 10% of what they said I could.
They just sent me an other 200 free listings again THIS MORNING!!!
Talk about rubbing salt in a wound.
They much proffer people like this chap http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/xiaohong2088?
He gets complaints because all he sells is junk marked and Sterling Silver.
I was curious as to how such a business could operate selling silver at 10p a gram so bought £4 worth.
I raised the issue with both eBay and the trader but to no avail.well I got banned the next day and he is still going very strong.
May Be I should not have posted the pictures of his junk dissolving.
But I did not think eBay would act so unfairly.Probably a good thing to stop using them if they are incapable of rational thought and debate. 
Having been working here for over twenty years I have developed a small army of what I call "my Irregulars" that will dig all day for £5 an hour so finding five or ten who would post bit's and bobs for me is not a problem.
I was trying to put together a single entity that could be promoted which has been blown out of the water by forces and politics I did not know where in action.
I checked all the legislation needed to make sure I was in line with governmental guide lines but was unaware that ebay had a different view.
My solicitor say's"EU Law - Chapter II / Article 102 prohibition - Abuse of dominant market position refusal to supply or provide access to essential facilities In the EU and UK, it is illegal for eBay to ban you for no good reason.Concerns that you could miss use a trading position are ridiculous any thing is open to abuse"
But he charges £150 an hour and I have only just finished a two year battle with a building contractor who tried it on with me so I am not really in the mood for a drawn out slanging match with a multy billion pound entity like eBay.
I will just have to start acting as there wurst Gorilla Marketing Night Mair.


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## Captobvious

justinhcase said:


> Well I think they are acting like an Autistic client of mine.



Some of us have children that have Autism, its not a joke, its not funny, it only shows your own ignorance. You'll excuse me while I no longer giving two flying farts as to what happens with your account now...


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## solar_plasma

"Autistic" and "autism" is not necessarily meaning the same: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autistic_thinking#A

Every "normal" person might, under specific circumstances, act autistic in its cognitive behavior. So, I would take such a formulation with a pinch of salt and not necessarily as an expression of ignorance.


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## justinhcase

I know there are a lot of very closely related condition in the Autism spectrum.
My dad was Aspergers Syndrome which was not very pleasant and I have been told i exhibit the odd caricaturist some time's when I have a project on my mind.
So I treat them all with equal respect as I be leave we all share similar traits if you look hard enough.
In fact come to think of it,and it never occurred to me before most of the people I truly respect and like are people I would have to describe as teetering on the first step of that group of people.
I was not saying they where stupid more blinkered to a point of view out side there comfort zone and through a fit when the world did not meet the logical and neat expectation if you catch my drift.
Sorry if you took offense I really did not mean any harm I do wax lyrical as it is called some time.And I did not expect you to care about me or my account .
I am on the other side of the world and it sounds like you have your hands full .my heart and best wish go out to any one in your position.


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## Anonymous

I agree with Solar here. Obvious you're being far too sensitive. Justin was making a statement of fact, not poking fun at autism.

I know people with all kinds of medical problems but I don't get all sensitive when it's mentioned.


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## butcher

My vocabulary skills are limited, but what I do know is we should be careful with some of what we say, and how we say it so as not to offend others.

I do not see where Justin was using this to be offensive to anyone.

I am sure he did not mean to offend anyone with a medical condition.

We as members must do our best, at being gentlemen and ladies, on the forum, being respectful to others in what we say, and how we say it.


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## necromancer

i think the word is:

political correctness.

should be a rule, an enforced rule.

this fits into:

skin colour
race
religion
age
and so on......


i vote for zero tolerance on discrimination. because if you let it happen it will get worse, much worse.

my 2 cents


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## necromancer

i may like to ad.....

this is coming from "me" the guy that has problems with "Following The Rules"

Dave Clarke


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## solar_plasma

Calm down, Black Magic 8) :lol: He didn't burn a cross. Please follow the link I posted and you will see, there has actually not been anything mean in his words. It is just a misunderstanding. 

Of course, all of us try not to offend anyone. Nevertheless, caused by different local background, cultures, language, rhetorical abilities sooner or later most of us, including myself, will come to say something another one feels to be offending or otherwise get misunderstood - or will feel offended or will misunderstand someone.


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## necromancer

black magic?

i dont see your problem but i do know how to block your posts.


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## necromancer

used phpbb to block solar_plasma, posts will no longer be seen :lol: 

its a great function.


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## solar_plasma

Sorry, I had to think of the posts, when someone was offended by your name necromancer, which most would call a kind of black magic, - and I tried to take up the cudgels for you.


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## justinhcase

Well I totally support the New Diversity Protection Legislation.
But to say I was not a fan of the two week seminar I had to sit through when it came in is an understatement. 
And I never have breached any of there guyed lines.May be I sail a little bit close to the wind in a little bit of a Pythonesque way.
But I assure you the distinction is one of taste and not adversely affecting any protected diversity.
I was trying to bring some attention to a policy by FleeBay that from what research I have seen is affecting a multitude of small family concerns.
I am sorry it has ended in a debate on Political correctness.


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## Anonymous

necromancer said:


> i think the word is:
> 
> political correctness.
> 
> should be a rule, an enforced rule.
> 
> this fits into:
> 
> skin colour
> race
> religion
> age
> and so on......
> 
> 
> i vote for zero tolerance on discrimination. because if you let it happen it will get worse, much worse.
> 
> my 2 cents



That's probably the most ridiculous post I have ever seen on this forum. Political correctness is nothing more than preventing people from having an opinion that doesn't fit with the establishment. Exactly the opposite of what the "land of the free" stands for. 

People have to be able to say the truth, no matter what that entails. Nobody is ever going to be thanked by everyone for what they say, but those who tell he truth as they see it are respected far more than those who never do, and stir things up with no true facts to back them up.

Blocking someone's posts because you don't like reading their opinion is like putting your hands in your ears and chanting "la la la la la."


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## Palladium

This thread's getting a little off topic and not in an educational way.


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## justinhcase

I am going to run away and hid for a bit.
Have a nice cup of tea.
My be when I surface again it will have all blown over.
Almost finished my new wet scrubber.Two water driven aspirators driven by a 400w sealed dirty water sump pump and a 100l tank.
Thinking of bicarbonate of soda to control the acidity as I had to use some stainless steel but 99.9% is plastic.
Almost no noise escapes the water tank so it may be of use to people where noise of a continual fan would be a problem.
But do not want to get borough beaten by any one who scrubs floors for a living so will choose my word carefully.


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## necromancer

spaceships said:


> preventing people from having an opinion that doesn't fit with the establishment. Exactly the opposite of what the "land of the free" stands for.




i tried to say more or less that exact same thing, i got a warning for it.

this is a canadian web site ?? with international members ?? and not a american web site ??? <------- this is 3 questions, not statements :!: 

and one of the most important things is that, "my choice is my choice"

i can listen to constant insults or i can shut them out.

if the admin did not want a function of this site to be used he would disable it.

and i would love to see your new wet scrubber, but thats another post. i will see you there when it's done


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## patnor1011

Political correctness is the worst plague of mankind. It force people to confine to standards created by handful people who in most cases do not represent majority. 
Ability of saying what you really think is suppressed by dancing around trying to say what others want to hear. Not my cup of coffee.


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## justinhcase

I wish Bill Hicks was still around.
I miss his slant on life.
Probably my favorite American,More like a Philosopher to me.
Let's all close our eyes and say a small word for bill and hope a little of his bright spirit can help influence the people on this board.
Love you Bill Hope you are still out there Man :lol:


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## galenrog

Palladium is correct. You two children need to get back on topic and keep your personal spats private.


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## Harold_V

Which of you wish to be banned?

Show me by continuing this moronic thread. 

I could lock it, but I prefer banning a few to set the example. 

Who wishes to go first?

Harold


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## Captobvious

justinhcase said:


> Sorry if you took offense I really did not mean any harm I do wax lyrical as it is called some time.And I did not expect you to care about me or my account .
> I am on the other side of the world and it sounds like you have your hands full .my heart and best wish go out to any one in your position.



First off I do appreciate your apology. Secondly, I did have a nice eloquent, heartfelt post last night that my browser ate when it crashed. I'll leave it at that publicly, and take the rest to PM's.

Sorry for derailing the thread as that was not my intention


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## goldsilverpro

Harold_V said:


> Which of you wish to be banned?
> 
> Show me by continuing this moronic thread.
> 
> I could lock it, but I prefer banning a few to set the example.
> 
> Who wishes to go first?
> 
> Harold


I'm with Harold on this, 100%. There are 3 or 4 people that always jump in anytime a personal controversy is brewing. You know who you are. This just intensifies and prolongs the arguments. I'm also fed up with this and would certainly agree with Harold to one or more of you getting banned. The forum would not suffer one bit by your absence. If you want to argue or bitch, do it by PM and totally keep it off the forum.

justinhcase,

Back to the 1st post in this thread. You haven't said how far back this goes but, from April 1 until now, according to Kitco, the highest gold price has been about $1328 and the lowest about $1242. That's less than a 7% difference. How can you possibly consider that a "crash?" How could anyone sympathize with your problem? Why didn't you have enough sense to consider this possibility? You screwed up and, to make it worse, you then reneged on your agreements. Your word is dead. You are to be no longer trusted. What don't you understand about, "a deal is a deal?" For once, I think eBay did the right thing.

This worthless thread is now locked. If you continue to bitch about this, you're gone.


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