# How to Make a Profit Refining Precious Metals - VIDEO



## kadriver (Jun 1, 2018)

This is how it works for me:

https://youtu.be/NzbUOkut6f0

kadriver


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## anachronism (Jun 1, 2018)

Woah the forum is up for a day and you're posting another video to make more money for yourself.

I'm sorry but I have to be frank.


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## kadriver (Jun 1, 2018)

I would have posted the video much sooner, but the forum has been down...

"What's worth doing is worth doing for money". (Gordan Geko - Wall Street Movie)

"What's worth doing is worth over doing". (Steven Tyler - Aerosmith)

kadriver


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## Palladium (Jun 1, 2018)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzbUOkut6f0&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]


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## galenrog (Jun 2, 2018)

Watched it Monday on YouTube. Well done.


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## anachronism (Jun 2, 2018)

kadriver said:


> I would have posted the video much sooner, but the forum has been down...
> 
> "What's worth doing is worth doing for money". (Gordan Geko - Wall Street Movie)
> 
> ...



Maybe so. I do this for a living. However this place is "refiners helping other refiners" to me. Then again there's more and more people using it to make money rather than help other people. That's my 3 cent's worth.


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## g_axelsson (Jun 2, 2018)

Kadriver doesn't need to post the videos here as he has 40.000 followers on youtube, comparable to the 43.000 members of GRF.
His video has gotten 2600 views, this thread 92...

I see it as a service to GRF that he announces his new videos here and I have never heard him complaining when we comment on his technique or refining habits.

I say, keep them coming, it's better that newbies learn from his videos than all the crap that's prolific on the tube. That is helping other refiners.

Göran


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## archeonist (Jun 2, 2018)

g_axelsson said:


> Kadriver doesn't need to post the videos here as he has 40.000 followers on youtube, comparable to the 43.000 members of GRF.
> His video has gotten 2600 views, this thread 92...
> 
> I see it as a service to GRF that he announces his new videos here and I have never heard him complaining when we comment on his technique or refining habits.
> ...



I totally agree! His video's are the best on YouTube, not only the process itself but also safety and always a clean workarea. Keep them coming!


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## snoman701 (Jun 2, 2018)

anachronism said:


> kadriver said:
> 
> 
> > I would have posted the video much sooner, but the forum has been down...
> ...



Always gotta be a cynic in the group....usually it's me!

Actually...I'm usually the cynic and the condescending one. That means I act like I know more than you.

In all reality, I'm just quick to see that other peoples solutions don't work as well, when they are applied to my problems. That's hardly their fault. 

So, you do this for a living. Given your experiences, what are the problems you see in the video, or in Kevin's videos in general? 

I started to list mine, but enough people on this forum already think I'm a condescending jerk...and the videos are well liked by most, they just aren't a solution to any of my problems. My problems are related to building a business, not making a small profit.


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## cuchugold (Jun 2, 2018)

I liked the video and the conclusions. All the money is made on the purchase or mining and *normally* there is no need to go past inquartation and parting. Very well done.


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## snoman701 (Jun 2, 2018)

cuchugold said:


> I liked the video and the conclusions. All the money is made on the purchase or mining and *normally* there is no need to go past inquartation and parting. Very well done.



Until you try to scale up and have maybe an employee, so you don't have to work yourself until your brain explodes from the stress. 

I've seen plenty of pawn shops close their doors, same for miners that are actually paying on a claim, as well as maintaining equipment, making equipment payments, environmental regulations, etc. 

I mean, to really critique the video, lets really work out what "profit" is. I think a lot of people confuse the word profit with markup.

Again, the cynic.


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## kadriver (Jun 2, 2018)

There is no getting around it, you make your profit when you buy. The art of buying and getting a good deal is the key to success. And my wife, having done it for so long, has become a sort of expert at it. I've never thought of making refining a business. Someone once said that if you make your hobby your work then it becomes just that; work. My wife and I have the perfect situation that enables us to both do something that we love to do. She finds metal and I get to make my videos. I thank God for this gift and for my wife.

kadriver


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## cosmetal (Jun 2, 2018)

snoman701 said:


> cuchugold said:
> 
> 
> > I liked the video and the conclusions. All the money is made on the purchase or mining and *normally* there is no need to go past inquartation and parting. Very well done.
> ...



I believe that he was talking about his gross and net revenue.

*Gross revenue*
(Cost of Goods)
*Net Revenue*
(Direct Cost of Manufacture - Labor and Materials)
(Indirect Cost of Manufacture - Overhead, etc.)
*Gross Profit*
(Taxes)
*Net Profit*

Plus all the other accounting gobblygook I missed. :? 

James


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## cosmetal (Jun 2, 2018)

By the way, kadriver.

You make killer videos - thanks!  

James


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## aga (Jun 2, 2018)

If it's a single person, the maths are easy.

Raw Material Cost = what you paid for the stuff.
Time Cost = (how much time you spent doing all of it) X (what you think your time is worth)
Processing Cost = (Cost of Chemicals and Electricity) X (how much you used)

Gross Profit = 
(How Much You Sell it For) - (Raw Materials Cost + Time Cost + Processing Cost)

Nett Profit = 
Gross Profit - ((Gross Profit) X (Tax Percentage))

If it's just sold for cash, 'Tax Percentage' is optional, right up to the point where there is a whole new set of equations with terms like (Whole Prison Term - (Good Behaviour Days X Parole Percentage))

Edit:

In a bigger setup (more than 1 person) the terms 'Gross' and 'Nett' are arguable.
In a Really Big setup, terms like 'Tax' can disappear completely, although new terms like 'Bribe' and 'Lawyer' need to come in.


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## anachronism (Jun 2, 2018)

Hey, everyone has an opinion and everyone's entitled to that. I don't slag someone off just because I don't agree with their point of view. 

I don't like that people use this forum to promote monetised youtube videos, and I'm not alone in that opinion.


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## snoman701 (Jun 2, 2018)

kadriver said:


> There is no getting around it, you make your profit when you buy. The art of buying and getting a good deal is the key to success. And my wife, having done it for so long, has become a sort of expert at it. I've never thought of making refining a business. Someone once said that if you make your hobby your work then it becomes just that; work. My wife and I have the perfect situation that enables us to both do something that we love to do. She finds metal and I get to make my videos. I thank God for this gift and for my wife.
> 
> kadriver



She's clearly good at it, as finding 6 ozt of gold per month at yard sales, thrift shops and such means that she's hustling...and by that, I mean she's working her bum off. I used to spend a few days a week doing it. I've bought my fair share of precious metals on the used market, but nothing close to those numbers. 

I didn't look at your Ebay items, but I assume you are also buying/selling other stuff as well. Some months Ebay sales have been a majority of my income, and none of it is precious metals related....I could source all of my income from yard sales, but I'm burnt out on it. It's what I learned to do from my parents. Dad passed in November, and I could probably survive for a few years just selling his hoard of vintage vacuum tubes. I need a change. I've got another two weeks until the wife is off from work, then we are liquidating a good portion of my hoard on Ebay.



aga said:


> Superb video kadriver !
> 
> @anachronism & snowy : you're also extracting/refining to make Money no ?
> 
> ...



Oh, stuff it...all I'm offering is the opinion, based upon a lifetime of experience in the secondhand market, that those numbers are tough to achieve without his wife really busting her butt as a sole collector of precious metals from public retail offerings. And if she's working half as hard as I think she probably is, that's not a lot of profit for the effort she has to put forth. If she's happy doing it, then that's awesome...it's like kadriver said, it makes life rewarding. 

And for all of those people that think you make your profit on the buy...please, come and buy all of the stuff I've bought really really cheap. I'll give you values and descriptions of items that will make you 100% returns on every item I sell you. Bring at least $10k and a box truck. 

My point...It's not profit until it's sold.


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## snoman701 (Jun 2, 2018)

anachronism said:


> Hey, everyone has an opinion and everyone's entitled to that. I don't slag someone off just because I don't agree with their point of view.
> 
> I don't like that people use this forum to promote monetised youtube videos, and I'm not alone in that opinion.



Ok, ignoramous here.

You mean kadriver gets paid every time someone watches his video? 

How is a monetised video differentiated from a free video? 

How much money we talkin?


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## cosmetal (Jun 2, 2018)

snoman701 said:


> anachronism said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, everyone has an opinion and everyone's entitled to that. I don't slag someone off just because I don't agree with their point of view.
> ...



Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtlev4l4IYk&t=1041s

He's an AU mate that works on the ewaste side. He has some interesting vids too.

I believe that he is also a member of GRF

James


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## snoman701 (Jun 2, 2018)

Interesting.

Wonder how much this one makes then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcBDWyyExDQ


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## cosmetal (Jun 2, 2018)

snoman701 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Wonder how much this one makes then.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcBDWyyExDQ


Dang! :shock: 

They don't look like that at my scrap yard! :lol:


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## Palladium (Jun 3, 2018)

As far as i can tell the mans making money and is happy with it. I have no problems with him posting video's even if he does make money off it. He has contribute both in video as well as longgggg drawn out post where he has documented step by step his results. He contributed a lot of time, effort, and money into educating others who may follow after him. I have many video series on Youtube that run 10-12 hours a series. Take it from me it's a lotttt of effort and work. I shot my video's kind of down and dirty compared to Kevin's concise and well put together video's. We've has Steve sale video's and stuff on the forum. Chris sales a ebook of his. Patnor sells an ebook. Lino1406 sells his ebook. Some people buy or sell here on the forum or offer refining services. It's definitely a platform that promotes montinization. Why would his video's be any different.

The only thing i'm waiting for is him to write Sreetips across his forehead !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## kurtak (Jun 3, 2018)

First off - another GREAT video Kevin :!: 8) :mrgreen: 

Jon - not sure why you are having a problem with the fact that Kevin is making some money off his YouTube video's - after all they are very well made & informative & they are FREE to all members of the forum just like anything else posted here to the forum :!: 


The money Kevin makes from his video's is an "indirect" result of posting them to YouTube 


We just get the benefit (for FREE) of Kevin providing us with a link to them from the forum - which in my opinion is a good thing because I log on to the form "every day" which gives me a direct path from the everyday discussion about refining here on the forum to his well made video's about "refining"


And again - it's all FREE to the members here --- in other words - he is NOT making money off the forum members - but rather is making his money off of his hard work making the video's - then posting them to YouTube for which YouTube pays him as a result of the time & effort he puts into making them

So I just don't see the problem Jon - after all - Keven has been providing us with his "very well" made video's for as long as you & I have been members of this forum --- in other words Jon - in the spirit of this forum - Kevin has/is passing on the information he has learned from the forum so others can learn from the forum & he has been doing it for a LONG time now


Kevin - I just want to thank you again for your "many years" of "contributing" to this forum with your MANY "well made" videos

Kurt


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## snoman701 (Jun 3, 2018)

cosmetal said:


> snoman701 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting.
> ...



I'm wondering how she maintains those nicely manicured hands while digging all of this stuff. 

I'd watch a video on that. 

I can't believe how messed up my hands are after taking apart a pallet of computers. The paint chips, the fingernails tear...and I haven't had stain free hands in years.


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## anachronism (Jun 3, 2018)

kurtak said:


> First off - another GREAT video Kevin :!: 8) :mrgreen:
> 
> Jon - not sure why you are having a problem with the fact that Kevin is making some money off his YouTube video's - after all they are very well made & informative & they are FREE to all members of the forum just like anything else posted here to the forum :!:
> 
> Kurt



Just a pet thing of mine Kurt. I've stood up and said what's on my mind, better out than in. Most don't agree with it but hey ho life goes on mate. Hope you're getting on well with your silver. 

Jon


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## Smack (Jun 3, 2018)

Angry Grandpa was pulling down around 20k a month from his youtube videos at the time he died. Kevin's gotta do Kevin, nobody else will. lol, no pun intended. 

I see no resulting adverse effect on the forum from the videos Kevin puts up. If anything, they help the people here who are willing to help a noob that may have learned something by watching one of Kevin's videos before coming here to ask a bunch of questions.


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## kadriver (Jun 3, 2018)

Smack said:


> Angry Grandpa was pulling down around 20k a month from his youtube videos at the time he died.



He was kind and gentle man, nothing like the outrageous person depicted in his videos.


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## kadriver (Jun 3, 2018)

By the, way wife designed the new thumbnail for this video - you can tell it has a woman's touch.


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## snoman701 (Jun 3, 2018)

Palladium said:


> The only thing i'm waiting for is him to write Sreetips across his forehead !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:



I've got $100 that I'll give him if he gets it tattooed on there. 

It's marketing genius...every person he passes on the street will google it, then watch one of his videos. And he's getting paid to get the tattoo done. 

Whaddya say?


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## kadriver (Jun 4, 2018)

I did 20 years in the Navy and never got a tattoo. Then I got drunk one night in Austin TX down on 6th street and wondered into a tattoo shop and got one. No more tattoos for me, I learned my lesson.


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## 4metals (Jun 5, 2018)

I have been away working for the last few weeks and replying to this on an iPhone just wouldn't cut it. 

I do appreciate Kevin's video's, they are well done and accurate. If Kevin is able to profit from the meager $ that You-Tube hits pay or You-Tube sponsorship, then good for him. I judge Kevin's video's by their content, which is accurate and easy to follow. I don't believe in counting other people's money, that can only lead to bad conclusions and eventually sticking your own foot in your mouth.

But the bottom line with this video is concentration of values. Karat scrap is essentially a concentrate and concentrates are less costly to upgrade than lower grade e-scrap. Think about it, jewelry is "graded" by karat. Which is essentially a gold concentration in percentage. Plumb 10 karat is 41,66%, plumb 14 karat is 58.33% and plumb 18 karat is 75%. Percentage is another word for parts per 100. E-scrap is generally graded as parts per MILLION! A ton of e-scrap boards can run anywhere from 100 to 700 PPM. A part per million is one gram per metric ton. For a backyard refiner the difference in chemical consumption alone can be exponential. Picture the chemistry required to wet a metric ton of material to generate between (100/31.103=3.215) 3.215 ounces and (700/31.103=22.5) 22.5 ounces of gold. With karat gold the same quantities of gold can be refined in 1 to 6 liters of acid. And that difference, in a nutshell, is why karat is the go to scrap that all refiners dream about. 

But Kevin's other point, about buying the scrap for the right price, is something that must be considered a little more. Everybody, from the guy who pays for boards based on copper weight to the big smelter wants to get the best deal possible on their incoming feed. That is just human nature. The difference between e-scrap and karat scrap is it is much easier to quantify how much yield is expected in karat than in e-scrap. Even the semi refining that Kevin does by inquartation and parting gives him a good handle on the gold content by increasing the purity and eliminating the wiggle room that his buyer has. And the wiggle room is where the profits are made. On karat, there is a little wiggle room. In Kevin's example it is between .992 and .997 XRF reading of the purity of the bar he produces. But on e-scrap the wiggle room is huge. More like backflip room! That is why for years I incinerated boards and melted the copper based bullion into assayable bars before shipment. The key to profit in refining is in knowing what you have to ship as well as getting it for the right price. 

So the bottom line is if you are set up to do it properly, you can make money with e-scrap. But if you are a small refining operation who always has to keep an eye on chemical consumption and waste volume, karat scrap is the way to go. But as Kevin pointed out, it also helps to have a skilled buyer keeping your refinery filled with work.


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## cuchugold (Jun 6, 2018)

4metals said:


> .


Hi 4metals. Feel free to move this to another thread or whatever. Do you know of any very small rigs to make nitric acid in the middle of nowhere out of air and water alone?. Using a little Platinum sponge as catalyst. I'm looking for a rig to make a few gallons of nitric acid per day. Something really small, not industrial.


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## 4metals (Jun 6, 2018)

Have you heard of the existence of these things or did you wake up from a deep sleep thinking how handy it would be to have one?

What do you plan on using as the nitrogen source? Rigs with platinum catalysts use ammonia and high heat to capture nitrogen. Rigs without catalysts require cryogenics to separate the nitrogen out of air. Either way very hot or very cold both stretch the very small requirement.


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## cuchugold (Jun 6, 2018)

Deep sleep. I thought I'd ask. That King of Random guy has a small rig to make liquid nitrogen, by the way.


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## Platdigger (Jun 6, 2018)

Even if you have relatively pure nitrogen, there would still be at least another step to get the nitrogen oxide that you react with air to get the needed nitrogen dioxide, right?


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## cuchugold (Jun 6, 2018)

The industrial process is the catalytic oxidation of ammonia, like 4metals said. The production of gunpowder and explosives for war was the reason for development of the platinum group chemistry. I asked 4metals, because if there were small rigs to make nitric acid, he'd know for sure. I don't know how to make one, but I'd like to know if there is a way.


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## nickvc (Jun 7, 2018)

Wouldn’t it be easier to source nitrate fertilizer locally and use poor mans AR ?


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## cuchugold (Jun 7, 2018)

Air has Nitrogen and oxygen, water has hydrogen. If a small rig can be made, I'd like to learn. I have seen rigs for oleum SO3/H2SO4 that are relatively small. Cell phones did not exist 50 years ago, etc. I'm asking because maybe someone knows how to do it in small scale. The US Army did it in large scale for the war effort, because the nitrate mines in Chile were too far, and they needed more gun powder. It is a solved problem on large scale industrial. A curious mind wants to know. That's all. Not interested in ego battles. Peace.


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## Lou (Jun 7, 2018)

Best bet to check sciencemadness.


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## grainsofgold (Jun 11, 2018)

Making money by buying right-

Reminds me of Hymie the jewish bartender at the local bar in Tel Aviv. 

Hymie was known all over Israel for selling diamonds to engaged couples at cost. He sold more than anyone. One day someone asked. "Hymie , I gotta ask you, you sell all these diamonds at cost but every year you buy a new Cadillac and take 3- 4 trips overseas, how in the world do you do it ?

He replied , "Easy, I buy below cost! "

And that is the real story


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