# Computer Recycling



## shanefleming (May 15, 2011)

Hello, i am interested in starting a computer recycling business 

BUT... i am having a problem, to start a business you need to do a flow chart to get investment and doing a flow chart is causing a headache because to do one correctly i need to know an average amount of gold, silver and bronze that is in a PC. If anyone else here who also runs a refinery and you recycle computer can you tell me the average amount that each computer is worth

Thank you


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## Anonymous (May 15, 2011)

shanefleming said:


> Hello, i am interested in starting a computer recycling business
> 
> BUT... i am having a problem, to start a business you need to do a flow chart to get investment and doing a flow chart is causing a headache because to do one correctly i need to know an average amount of gold, silver and bronze that is in a PC. If anyone else here who also runs a refinery and you recycle computer can you tell me the average amount that each computer is worth


That would be giving free information to a potential competitor.
If you search the forum you may find some of the info you need.


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## shanefleming (May 15, 2011)

Your not giving me your formula to remove the gold your only telling me how much is there : )


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## joem (May 15, 2011)

Here is the only flow chart I work with

Find buyer for your scrap computer items
Get scrap for free or super low cost
sell to Buyer
Save 1/2 the money for bigger plans
re-invest the other half of money buying more scrap (but free is better)

Repeat repeat repeat
edit for clarity


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## Anonymous (May 15, 2011)

shanefleming said:


> i am interested in starting a computer recycling business





shanefleming said:


> can you tell me the average amount that each computer is worth





mic said:


> That would be giving free information to a potential competitor.


Read these posts in order,you should understand why I wrote what I did.
However,your question is virtually impossible to answer anyways so it is irrelevant.PC's can vary greatly in values.Espescially if you add the catagories of reuse,and collectable.You could be talking about $3 each..to thousands each.And that is just in the PC department.Get into the commercial catagory and you could be dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars for a single piece.
A gentleman I know purchased the outdated 911 mainframes (for scrap)from the Orange County Sherriff department auction a couple of years ago,he ended up selling them for $350,000(if memory serves).
You would be better sered,by searching the forum for yield data on various things.


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## goldsilverpro (May 15, 2011)

On the forum, search, search, search and read, read, read. That's what everyone else has to do.


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## Claudie (May 15, 2011)

shanefleming said:


> Hello, i am interested in starting a computer recycling business
> 
> BUT... i am having a problem, to start a business you need to do a flow chart to get investment and doing a flow chart is causing a headache because to do one correctly i need to know an average amount of gold, silver and bronze that is in a PC. If anyone else here who also runs a refinery and you recycle computer can you tell me the average amount that each computer is worth
> 
> Thank you



I am trying to understand the question you are asking. You asked if there is anyone else here who runs a refinery, is it a refinery you are wanting to start up, or a computer scrap business. I am in agreement with the others here as far as you doing your own research. If you are going to start a business and expect to do well at all, you need to know how to research things for yourself. The more you depend on someone else to do the work for you, the more you increase the chances of failure. Running a business is a lot of work, done mostly by the person who depends the most on the business being a success. If it were as simple as asking someone else to do things for you, everyone would be doing it. One of the things that I have learned along the way is, the more important the job is, the more important it is for me to do it myself. The less we become dependent on others, the better off we will be.
As far as what is a computer worth for scrap, you need to get the current market prices for your area, then get a few computers for a test. Take each one apart, weigh the materials separately (Tin, Aluminum, Copper wire, Motherboards, Add on cards, RAM, Processors, etc). Figure up how much it is all worth, then divide that number by the number of computers you started with. This can be a rough estimate of how much the average computer will be worth for scrap value in your area.


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## Anonymous (May 15, 2011)

Claudie said:


> get a few computers for a test. Take each one apart, weigh the materials separately (Tin, Aluminum, Copper wire, Motherboards, Add on cards, RAM, Processors, etc). Figure up how much it is all worth, then divide that number by the number of computers you started with. This can be a rough estimate of how much the average computer will be worth for scrap value in your area.


Very good advice.


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## patnor1011 (May 15, 2011)

If you plan to get funding showing charts about how much gold is in computer forget about that. 
Gold is just small piece if icing on cake in electronic or computer recycling. This gold obsession and "starting" gold from computer recycling is the same as going fishing for tuna to get eyes of that fish... Nobody catch tuna for its eyes. 
It serves you better to go to recycling company to see things your own eyes. Only then you will understand where money are in this business.


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## Malais (May 15, 2011)

shanefleming said:


> Hello, i am interested in starting a computer recycling business
> 
> BUT... i am having a problem, to start a business you need to do a flow chart to get investment and doing a flow chart is causing a headache because to do one correctly i need to know an average amount of gold, silver and bronze that is in a PC. If anyone else here who also runs a refinery and you recycle computer can you tell me the average amount that each computer is worth
> 
> Thank you



I've found that the average computer is worth $9-$10. Then again, I've had computers with $40 worth of scrap in them as well as $5 worth of scrap in them. That's what I love about this business, it's a surprise every time.


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## Militoy (May 15, 2011)

shanefleming said:


> Hello, i am interested in starting a computer recycling business
> 
> BUT... i am having a problem, to start a business you need to do a flow chart to get investment and doing a flow chart is causing a headache because to do one correctly i need to know an average amount of gold, silver and bronze that is in a PC. If anyone else here who also runs a refinery and you recycle computer can you tell me the average amount that each computer is worth
> 
> Thank you



Not quite sure what you mean by lining up investment using a flow chart. When I was setting up a business, I presented a complete business plan, with an executive summary, projected cash flow estimates, balance sheet, profit and loss statement, risk assessment, etc. When a bank or venture capitalist risks their money – they want to see a clear and concise picture of exactly what you are planning to do with it. They usually won’t pony up funds until they have some real confidence that you actually know what you are doing. That includes your plan in handling the business end of things – as well as the technical aspects.

http://www.cpd.ogi.edu/mst/capstone/businessplanstructure.pdf


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## jeneje (May 16, 2011)

Not quite sure what you mean by lining up investment using a flow chart. When I was setting up a business, I presented a complete business plan, with an executive summary, projected cash flow estimates, balance sheet, profit and loss statement, risk assessment, etc. When a bank or venture capitalist risks their money – they want to see a clear and concise picture of exactly what you are planning to do with it. They usually won’t pony up funds until they have some real confidence that you actually know what you are doing. That includes your plan in handling the business end of things – as well as the technical aspects.

http://www.cpd.ogi.edu/mst/capstone/bus ... ucture.pdf

Very good articial to read, if you plan to continue. If you plan on getting into the e-scrap business there is more then computers. I would consider all parts of it, and then there is the marketing of your company to aquire the materials and the chemicials and equipment to process with....etc,etc, Read and learn.


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## shanefleming (May 16, 2011)

Hello again, im not sure to go into e-waste or just computers. And im not able to go see another e-waste recycler as there are none near me. 

I do wonder if anyone has a floor plan for a E-waste plant or what machinery they use as im finding it hard to find that out


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## nickvc (May 16, 2011)

Having seen the replies I'm not sure your fully understanding the complexity of the question you asked.....there's no simple a-z of e scrap recovery.
The members of the forum have advised you to read and learn...good advice! We won't hold your hand and set your business up for you!
When you have done your homework come back and ask more specific questions and you will get help but until then you won't get much help!


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## shanefleming (May 16, 2011)

I have been looking, but my main problem is i dont know the machinery that computer recyclers use, and im unable to find it out as there is no one near me that actually does this (im from ireland btw) i actually found out alot of the questions i was looking to know of this forum but this is one i cant find an answer for


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## element47 (May 16, 2011)

There are lots of videos on YouTube that show recycling...probably get some ideas there.


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## joem (May 16, 2011)

shanefleming said:


> I have been looking, but my main problem is i dont know the machinery that computer recyclers use, and im unable to find it out as there is no one near me that actually does this (im from ireland btw) i actually found out alot of the questions i was looking to know of this forum but this is one i cant find an answer for


ask patnor


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## seawolf (May 16, 2011)

Before you go to far check the county / state laws / by-laws for the business you want to start. Zoning and land area might put you on hold for a long time.
Contact the state dept. of commerce and ask for a list of e-scrap recyclers. Contact one or more and ask for a tour of their facilities, if need be take a few days vacation and take a tour if offered. Let them know you want to be a collection point and will need a buyer; ask them the best method of shipping to them IE whole, separated, chipped ECT. Get a price list of the items they buy and minimum quantities.
Start as small as you can and work up, don't mortgage yourself too deeply.
There are many posts that will tell you of PM in computers but over all the scrap sale will net money faster.
Good luck, Mark


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## nickvc (May 17, 2011)

Maybe the best thing you can do to start is collect an assortment of old computers and take them apart and sort into types of metal scrap and plastics remove the boards and then identify what on the boards are easily recovered and what will have to be passed on.
By identifying the various components you should be able to get ideas on values but and this is a big but forget been able to recover all the values yourself, even here on the forum I don't think we have a refiner of boards that's one for the large refiners, most cherry pick the values and sell the rest on.


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## patnor1011 (May 17, 2011)

shanefleming said:


> I have been looking, but my main problem is i dont know the machinery that computer recyclers use, and im unable to find it out as there is no one near me that actually does this (im from ireland btw) i actually found out alot of the questions i was looking to know of this forum but this is one i cant find an answer for



I am in Limerick and I can show you one middle sized recycling company. I have promotional video showing their operations and owner is a friend of mine. PM me.


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## patnor1011 (May 20, 2011)

Shane, here is the link you asked for. File is bit large but worth seeing. It is in slovak language but easy to see what they do. I will try to put together some subtitles during veekend.

http://hotfile.com/dl/118398489/78a2015/ekoray.avi.html


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## Claudie (May 20, 2011)

patnor1011 said:


> Shane, here is the link you asked for. File is bit large but worth seeing. It is in slovak language but easy to see what they do. I will try to put together some subtitles during veekend.
> 
> http://hotfile.com/dl/118398489/78a2015/ekoray.avi.html




Thank you for the video. It was very informative.


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## shanefleming (May 20, 2011)

Very good video thank you very much, i would like to know the names of the machinery they used for separating the copper from the wire.


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## patnor1011 (May 21, 2011)

They call it Niagara as it use water to separate plastics from wire but you can find smaller units which use air. There is company in UK producing them. And quite a few can be found in China on alibaba.com
That UK company quoted me once for matrix 150t http://www.jmcrecycling.com/products/cable/the-matrix-150t-compact-cable-granulation-plant?image=1 for 45k £ but it was 2-3 years ago. They are nice call them and they may even show you how their machines operate. Not to mention that they are UK company so close home and hassle free than ordering from alibaba.


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## artart47 (May 23, 2011)

Hi!
business plan? Investors? Charts? May as well try setting up a kidney dialysis clinic!
I got an old 400,000mi. airbourn express van, $46 worth the business cards, sell myself and how I can save them money by recycling their computers and com equipment for free!
Give the refurvishable stuff to the computer store that started me out.They sell it as used and give me a split! Give the garbage-day-junk guys back the steel cases that the scrap yard will take after my twins scarf the goodies! (yard won't take computers) ect..ect....
Most important "fly under the radar"
E-scrap equals what I make at my construction job!
No disrespect but, it sounds to me like you learned about business in college.
In the real world, doing it the way you are talking, you'll have so many hands in your pocket and people breathing down your neck you'll make more per hour working at mc donalds for the first ten years. Unless, of course, you're politiclly connected.
artart47


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## Harold_V (May 23, 2011)

artart47 said:


> ect..ect....


 Clarification, please.

Harold


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## shanefleming (May 23, 2011)

artart47 said:


> Hi!
> business plan? Investors? Charts? May as well try setting up a kidney dialysis clinic!
> I got an old 400,000mi. airbourn express van, $46 worth the business cards, sell myself and how I can save them money by recycling their computers and com equipment for free!
> Give the refurvishable stuff to the computer store that started me out.They sell it as used and give me a split! Give the garbage-day-junk guys back the steel cases that the scrap yard will take after my twins scarf the goodies! (yard won't take computers) ect..ect....
> ...



Actually, i didnt learn about business in a college i left because it was to easy and started my own computer business, and the only reason i need all of the above is because to get money of people you need proof your going to make it back, for example i can now get upto 12,000 computers a month and im not taking them for free like you i get paid to take them £50 per ton which isnt alot but its better than nothing. Also you may us a cheap van and $46 worth of business cards but i have, 3 New vans, a brand new factory line, a factory, a lorry. And the whole point of an investment is for the government to get there money back thought VAT and TAX, thats why i was looking an investment rather than a loan. and im not gloating i just dont like being talked down to


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## kuma (Jul 27, 2011)

Hi all , 
I believe that I may be able to contribute to this thread with regard to the part about starting your own business.
Without going into too much detail and going too off topic , I would like to pass down some valuable advice that was given to me while I was in the process of building my own business plan. 
This is to perform a ' SWOT ' test.
This is where you test your self and your suitability for your particular choosen market , and can give you a good indication of where you stand very early on. 
Is as follows ;

Strenghts ; What are your partucular strengths that make you suitable for your market , and how can you be better than your competitors ?

Weakness ; What are your weaknesses and how can you overcome them ?

Oppurtunities ; What oppurtunities are there for you and your business in your market right now ?

Threats ; What could threaten your business now or in the future ? ( Bankruptcy and family breakup's arn't unheard of when putting everything on the line , unfortunatly for some this is the only way to realy break into their market competitively , and it can and often does go 'tit's up )

Just thought I'd mention that incase it's ever of any use to someone else reading this who's looking into starting a business , I found it a very useful tool.
Kindest regards and the best of luck , 
Chris


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## Geo (Jul 28, 2011)

i have a friend that built an oven to bake the oils out of plastics whether its wire coatings or circuit boards.its double walled and sealed with a closed vent system where the gas released from the plastics is in turn used to fire the system.his is large enough to hold up to 1 ton of coated wire or 1,000 pounds US of circuit boards.smaller versions would probably be easier to make.the initial firing uses propane to start then converts to the gas being produced in the system.i believe he purges the system of oxygen using argon before he starts.the metal that comes out after firing is bright and shiny,even very small copper wire,and because there's no oxygen present there's no combustion so no lose of metal due to oxidation.


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## butcher (Jul 29, 2011)

that would be a very nice furnace if it burned the fumes enough to avoid an afterburner, or to limit the fuel used for the afterburner.

can you share more details on its construction?


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## NoIdea (Jul 30, 2011)

Evening all. Ahh. The process is called “Pyrolysis”, and can be defined as the thermal degradation of carbonaceous material in the absence of oxygen. I am very fond of this process and have studied it extensively. The process lost favour in the 70’s and 80’s, after the development of massive units of which just ran out of feedstock or just poor supply. Here is a wee picture I drew/created a few rainy days ago.



There is a start up cost, in terms of heat, but once the right temperature is reached the unit will become self supplying in terms of fuel. After the volatiles have distilled/cracked off the unit will start to slow down, additional heat needs to be introduced to ensure the right cracking temperatures are maintained till off gasses cease.

If the process is terminated before completion, a high boiling point oligomer or greases, the type you pick up on surfaces after a house fire, sorry if was your house, will be left on your metal. If done correctly you will end up with metal and charcoal

If PVC was in your scrap, the production of HCl gas will have to be dealt with. I was going to introduce the group with a few photos and description on how to make your own home made HCl, assuming its ok by the members.  

Just ask away if you need to know more.

Deano


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## Geo (Jul 30, 2011)

NoIdea said:


> I was going to introduce the group with a few photos and description on how to make your own home made HCl, assuming its ok by the members.
> 
> Just ask away if you need to know more.



that would be great.i believe in making what you can as "big brother" will eventually have everything so regulated it will drive the big dreamers like us out of business.i went to buy a can of red devil lye about a month ago at the hardware store and i had to fill out a form and show ID to buy a 1LB can and it wasnt the buck twenty i paid last time either but more like $12 for a 1LB can.


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## Geo (Jul 30, 2011)

butcher said:


> that would be a very nice furnace if it burned the fumes enough to avoid an afterburner, or to limit the fuel used for the afterburner.
> 
> can you share more details on its construction?


the furnace my friend made was two pieces of steel pipe with one smaller than the other,it resembled a small water tank sitting on its end with the inside tank supported about 2' off the bottom.each had a hatch type door that resembled a ships hatch with dogs that could be screwed down to seal it.these were in the side about waist high.it had to be loaded and unloaded by hand.it had a series of safety devices like pressure release valves and E-shut off valves for the fuel.the system is under pressure during operation and when the pop-off valve released pressure he would turn a valve to shunt the gas to a different set of burners and at the same time turn another valve to reduce the propane.of coarse these two valves sit beside one another. :lol: as deano said at the end he would turn the propane back on for the last 30 minutes or so.after a cool down of a day when he opened it up you could grab the wire and shake it and the coating would fall of like dust and the copper was fresh and shiny as a new penny.


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## butcher (Jul 30, 2011)

Thanks for the picture and discription, this seems very similar to making wood gas fuel.


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 30, 2011)

Kinda like those "vaporizing" gadgets that pyrolize pot and catch the vapors, the goodies, in a balloon. When I made those carved gold leaf signs for the med pot stores in CA, they often had a balloon in the lobby that was freely passed around. 

In Portland, OR, I knew a German guy that was trying to pyrolize tires. He had a lot of equipment and a lot of money backing. He always showed me the numbers per ton of tires: 2 drums of oil, so many pounds of carbon black, so many pounds of steel from the steel-belted radials. The problem was that, once the air hit these hot gases, it heated up more, expanded, and boom. The guy was always covered from head to toe with carbon.

In the 70s, most of the circuit boards were phenolic. Made of phenol oil, which was worth, in the 70s, about $40. gal. Pyrolysis was the answer, but I never heard of anyone making money from it.

In this case, you got carbon and gold, a bad mix. You must get rid of the carbon to get the gold. Burn it?


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## Geo (Jul 30, 2011)

goldsilverpro said:


> Kinda like those "vaporizing" gadgets that pyrolize pot and catch the vapors, the goodies, in a balloon. When I made those carved gold leaf signs for the med pot stores in CA, they often had a balloon in the lobby that was freely passed around.
> 
> In Portland, OR, I knew a German guy that was trying to pyrolize tires. He had a lot of equipment and a lot of money backing. He always showed me the numbers per ton of tires: 2 drums of oil, so many pounds of carbon black, so many pounds of steel from the steel-belted radials. The problem was that, once the air hit these hot gases, it heated up more, expanded, and boom. The guy was always covered from head to toe with carbon.
> 
> ...


actually the boards i was referring to was just printed circuit boards of all kinds,not necessarily gold bearing boards.mainly from low grade electronics like radios and TV's,vcr's just for the copper value.after the boards came out everything went through a wet wash that was also closed which consisted of a tank with a small conveyor coming out at a steep angle and a water pump that came in from the bottom so that lighter material washed over the top and was trapped in a mesh screen.metals and heavy materials went up the belt into a drum.the whole system was very cool to watch and he built the whole thing out of scrap.well minus a few things he had to buy.


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## NoIdea (Jul 31, 2011)

Hello – rather than purging the system with an expensive gas, places a small amount of water in the bottom the reactor. When heat is applied, steam will displace the air (O2) before the cracking temperature is reached. I’ve been using this system for many a years without any mishaps. 

I’ve made petroleum using this process and with a wee bit of fractional distillation of the collected pyrolytic liquid products, clean gasoline was made and ran my lawn mower without any noticeable performance drop. If anything it ran a bit hotter and cleaner.

A high drive towards gaseous products can be achieved by using an AlCl3 catalyst which not only increases the gas content but also reduced the cracking temperature.

1kg of PVC will produce approximately 1lt of 30% HCl acid, theoretically. Cracking commences at approximately at 300 deg. Celsius with complete degradation of volatiles at approximately 600 deg. Celsius, with 98% recovery. And charcoal being the other by-product. 

Only 10% of the heating value of poly – ethylene, propylene, etc is required to crack the remaining 90%. Theoretical values only.

The picture in my previous reply is a pretty close description of my very first unit. The fire brick in direct line of the burner became white hot. The only way, that I know of, to keep this reaction from running away on you is to introduce a water spray unit which will soak up some of the heat within the system by way of steam or redirect the pyrolysis fuel to a condenser, filter, and gas collector. Remember! More heat, faster cracking, more fuel, more heat, more fuel etc. Below is a picture of some boards after the pyrolysis process.


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## Geo (Aug 1, 2011)

nice pic.looks like all thats left is fiber glass and metal.a good washing and magnetic seperation and your good to go.


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## Geo (Aug 1, 2011)

1kg of PVC will produce approximately 1lt of 30% HCl acid, theoretically. Cracking commences at approximately at 300 deg. Celsius with complete degradation of volatiles at approximately 600 deg. Celsius, with 98% recovery. And charcoal being the other by-product.
how do you collect the hcl? does it condense from the chlorine gas in the exhaust?


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## NoIdea (Aug 1, 2011)

Hi – The gas produced from PVC pyrolysis is dry HCl and a small amount of volatile organics, not chlorine, though I guess there is bound to be a small amount of chlorine present. 

Firstly the gas needs to be cooled. Dry cool HCl gas doesn’t react with iron very quickly, more as the temperature increases. My new reactor will be iron with quickfit glassware, condenser and scintillated glass bubbler. Cooling the gas and then bubbling through ice water will help with absorption, you will need to have at least one other bubbler to trap any escaping HCl vapour into a NaOH solution. Having the bubbler cooled with ice from the outside will also help with obtaining higher HCl acid concentrations by maintaining cool condition. My HCl solutions produced this way always got warm before the pyrolysis process ended. Not sure how much I lost.

Never tested the concentration I’ve made preciously but I am going to see how concentrated I can get this next lot. Allot of patents and other articles around on the net relating to this topic. 

I read an article stating it was cheaper to build a HCl plant converting PVC to HCl acid from scrap PVC, by sea transportation to the plant, than it was to transport the HCl acid by sea, to an equivalent location, due to special shipping regulations, special shipping containers, etc etc.

If you are going to try this, start small, keep it simple and keep some ammonium hydroxide handy as it will give off white vapour of ammonium chloride on contact with HCl vapour/gas. Good indicator of a leak

As soon as I get some pictures of the finished unit I will post them. I am using some of the bits I need on other projects.

Food for thought and be careful 

Deano


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