# Discolouration in newly bought silver coins



## Carpenter57 (Feb 13, 2016)

Hello all.

Really new to this. But the gold/silver bug has hit. I recently bought some silver coins and found that some about 20% had some discoloration. I am thinking that it may be a copper impurity. 

Thanks


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## scrappappy (Feb 13, 2016)

I don't collect Maple Leafs but the field doesn't look right to me. The area between the maple leaf and the rim should be flat but yours seems to have symmetrical lines on the surface. Toning or black areas can occur on .999 coins depending on environment but something doesn't look right, imo. Not saying I think they're fake but I would dig deeper. Some clues will be 1.) Are they magnetic? 2.) Do they weight the right amount? 3.)What year are they?


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## jimdoc (Feb 13, 2016)

The lines are on all the new Canadian coins.
To deter counterfeiting.

http://www.providentmetals.com/2016-1-oz-canadian-silver-maple-leaf.html

Jim


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## scrappappy (Feb 13, 2016)

jimdoc said:


> The lines are on all the new Canadian coins.
> To deter counterfeiting I suppose.
> 
> http://www.providentmetals.com/2016-1-oz-canadian-silver-maple-leaf.html
> ...


Good catch, I hadn't heard that security feature with maple leafs.. according to wikipedia that was added starting in 2014. I do see the micro maple leaf in the picture but can't make out the year. The black marks / toning does seem odd for a coin that recent but stranger things have happened. I think it would have to be some serious environmental factors or mishandling. Anyway, for the coins that already have condition issues I would also recommend a specific gravity test.


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## solar_plasma (Feb 14, 2016)

I have seen this sulfide discoloration before and think it has occured due to some plastics or electronics like compact fluorescent lamps around that has been off-gassing.


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## Long Shot (Feb 14, 2016)

Hello Carpenter57, welcome to GFR.

I have been collecting silver bullion and coins for quite a while and for what it is worth I offer the following:

1) I consult with a fellow who has been a coin / bullion collector / dealer for 40 + years and his father before him was in deep too. I too have been concerned about fakes but he tells me that counterfeiters will very, very rarely bother with coins such as the Maple Leaf or 1 ozt Ag bars - he says it just isn't worth the effort for the return. Worth note though, beware of small denomination gold coins and bars - they are worth the effort and can look, weigh and feel like the real thing - he says they plate them 50 microns deep and has been burned himself. This will fool an acid test and an XRF scanner.

2) Where did you purchase them? The RCM Maple Leaf is very trusted and very pure - if you bought them from a broker such as Silver Gold Bull you are probably good. EBay, well, maybe not but if you believe they are fake you should raise that with the seller immediately and if they offer to take them back and fully refund you them you may be correct.

3) As Scrappappy says - a density test will settle it. All matter has it's own unique density, something counterfeiters cannot cheat. Just not that easy for the average fellow to do.

4) Discoloration of silver is very natural when exposed to certain conditions as the others have eluded to. If these were just laying around in a drawer with other materials and not in a controlled environment (such as a bank safe deposit box) one can expect discoloration. For example - I live by the water where humidity goes up and down a lot, high humidity can interact with other items in that drawer and cause off gassing, especially sulfur, which will taint silver quickly. If this bothers you you should either a) control the environment where you store your items or b) acquire "jewel cases" for the coins or bars - readily available from coin dealers and not very expensive.

5) Magnetism was mentioned. High alloy or pure Ag coins / bullion are not magnetic. However, in regards to high alloy, a hard drive magnet (neodymium) will slightly attract them. This is usually a good test to determine fakes.

Hope this is helpful.


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## scrappappy (Feb 14, 2016)

I just remembered a simple test that I used when I first started buying silver and didn't have a scale or any of that. You can do an "Ice Test" by placing an ice cube on top of the coin. Silver is a very inductive element and will chomp through the ice fairly quickly.. my ice maker has the cube shaped like a D and if you lay the flat surface of the cube against the flat surface of the coin, you should get an indent in the surface of the cube that wraps around the coin.. basically the area touching the coin melts significantly faster than the area touching the regular surface underneath. You might also hear cracking sounds coming from the ice similar to how it sounds when an ice cube is put in warm water. I wouldn't use it for numismatic coins because it would leave water droplets or otherwise alter the surface under magnification but for regular bullion like these it should be fine. Hope this helps.


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## Long Shot (Feb 14, 2016)

That is awesome Scrappappy. Yes, thermoconductivity is a measurable thing, slugs won't behave the same at all. Goes along with the magnetism deal.


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## upcyclist (Feb 16, 2016)

Long Shot said:


> 3) As Scrappappy says - a density test will settle it. All matter has it's own unique density, something counterfeiters cannot cheat. Just not that easy for the average fellow to do.
> 
> ...
> 
> Hope this is helpful.


I found it very helpful! Those are all great tips.

I do want to point out that density is one of those tests that will eliminate fakes, but won't necessarily prove it's authenticity. In other words, if the density doesn't match that of pure silver, you've got a dud*. Conversely, if you do get a density of 10.5g/mL, that doesn't guarantee it's real, but it is a very good indicator. Of course in your case, you've also got the micro leaf and the patterning 

It's a fine point, sure, but something to keep in mind especially if you're going to resell it later. Most of us like to have trusting relationships with our vendors and clients and don't have to walk on pins and needles about this sort of thing, but the internet deals can get pretty nasty.

*Remembering to account for your own test error, of course--if you want to throw it out because you got 10.46 g/mL instead of 10.49, well, give it to me and I'll make sure it's disposed of properly


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## Lou (Feb 16, 2016)

Just put them in the oven on clean. Used to do that with tarnished flatware (sans filled pieces of course)


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## upcyclist (Feb 17, 2016)

Lou said:


> Just put them in the oven on clean. Used to do that with tarnished flatware (sans filled pieces of course)



Rationale? Burning off any carbon compounds and reabsorbing anything else into the silver?


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## Lou (Feb 18, 2016)

No, turning Ag2S (tarnish) into Ag2O transiently, which gives you Ag and O2.


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## upcyclist (Feb 18, 2016)

Roger--thanks!


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## Carpenter57 (Feb 26, 2016)

Thank you all for your input and discussion on this matter. 

I did write to the supplier but surprise I never received an answer. It was a small purchase 25-1 oz pieces. it was an on line purchase from a Germany Company. Here is the link for anyone interested. http://www.edelmetall-handel.de/

I would like to clean them up and it was suggested that I put them in an oven on clean. Does this really work? Has anyone every tried it? 

Next I need to buy some magnets and testing solutions. 

Thanks Again

Harry


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## Lou (Feb 26, 2016)

If they are badly tarnished, it should work. It works on sterling flatware. I suggest still that you consult a coin dealer first.


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## Long Shot (Feb 27, 2016)

Harry - as far as the magnets go, they are readily available from scrap hard disk drives, the older ones will have larger magnets. You can then cut off the mounting points and use them as I described. I use them for pulling magnetics out of incinerated ICs as well.


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## Carpenter57 (Mar 19, 2016)

Hello Everyone

Thanks for the input. I found some good magnets and the good news is they slide off. 

As for the milk spots, I went to a Jeweler that handles silver and gold. He gave me a cloth that has some type of cleaning compound in it. It has polished all my maple leafs up very nicely, leaving a lot of black stuff on the cleaning cloth.

He also told me that milk spotting is common and nothing to be concerned about. 

Onwards. More silver to collect.

Harry


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