# What's with gold prices?



## jeneje (Jun 20, 2013)

Gold has fell off a hundred dollars this week. What's up with that. Are we see a downward trend now? :shock: 

Ken


----------



## AndyWilliams (Jun 20, 2013)

jeneje said:


> Gold has fell off a hundred dollars this week. What's up with that. Are we see a downward trend now? :shock:
> 
> Ken



That's too difficult to say. Today has the chance to be more brutal. The markets dropped after the Fed announcement yesterday and continued overnite. If the US market doesn't stop the pullback, the general weakness in gold and silver is likely to last years.


----------



## Golddigger Greg (Jun 20, 2013)

I don't know, I see it as a sluggish bull shaking off those with a weak grip before giving one heck of a ride. I intend to buy the decline, building my stack for the future rise.


----------



## jeneje (Jun 20, 2013)

Golddigger Greg said:


> I don't know, I see it as a sluggish bull shaking off those with a weak grip before giving one heck of a ride. I intend to buy the decline, building my stack for the future rise.


Unless something changes, I can see a bottom price of $250 to $400 before the end of the year. I hope this is not the case but it is looking very dim for now.
Ken


----------



## rusty (Jun 20, 2013)

Wait and see where gold goes after Germany gets her gold back home.


----------



## Lou (Jun 20, 2013)

I highly doubt gold will fall below 800 an ounce ever again, let alone 250-400. I'd be shocked to see $12 silver. I really think those days are long gone. 

As it is now, Rh/Pt/Pd do not have much room to drop, particularly Rh. Same with Ru. Costs too much to refine/recover these elements. Squeeze the mines' profits, and they'll squeeze supply. Then comes demand, then comes upswing in prices.



Lou


----------



## CBentre (Jun 20, 2013)

Lou said:


> I highly doubt gold will fall below 800 an ounce ever again, let alone 250-400. I'd be shocked to see $12 silver. I really think those days are long gone.
> 
> As it is now, Rh/Pt/Pd do not have much room to drop, particularly Rh. Same with Ru. Costs too much to refine/recover these elements. Squeeze the mines' profits, and they'll squeeze supply. Then comes demand, then comes upswing in prices.
> 
> ...



Lou, I like the way you think. The moment the feds stop the presses it's going to be one hell of a race, and they don't have the power to confiscate the gold like they did in the past. A very smart man once told me, "we live in interesting times".


----------



## butcher (Jun 20, 2013)

The winds can be very calm just before a storm.


----------



## jeneje (Jun 20, 2013)

butcher said:


> The winds can be very calm just before a storm.


Yeah, like the mid 80's, buy, buy and bam it gone.
Ken


----------



## 9kuuby9 (Jun 20, 2013)

The prices will skyrocket or rise in increments soon; because when the federal bank or reserve wants to create money from dust; they'll just add the number in their system. They artificially bring down the Prices of Oil, Gold, Silver (all general recourses) so that when they add a certain number : example 1 trillion dollar; the prices would not skyrocket above their normal therms; example the set gold price is at 65 dollars per gram due to the buy&sell request of the given material. they bring it down to 50 dollars per gram so when they add a given amount of (fake) money in their system so that the price of gold would not skyrocket they'll keep letting the gold or any other material rise in increments until it reaches it's original price. imagine if they would not bring down the price artificially, then gold would have been over 100's of dollars per gram today. Since this system is made to rip off people it will eventually totally collapse someday.

And Buthcher's Quote is very interesting! Their might be a crisis or a Total collapse soon.


----------



## Lou (Jun 20, 2013)

Don't know about that, I just know it isn't cheap to get it out of the ground. Prices on those metals drop, but my (and anyone's) fixed costs do not. When, in any of our memories, has a pack of gum or cigarettes gone down in price? Houses? Cars?

No, there's only so much metal coming out of the ground.


----------



## kkmonte (Jun 20, 2013)

Lou said:


> Don't know about that, I just know it isn't cheap to get it out of the ground. Prices on those metals drop, but my (and anyone's) fixed costs do not. When, in any of our memories, has a pack of gum or cigarettes gone down in price? Houses? Cars?
> 
> No, there's only so much metal coming out of the ground.



But our salaries keep going up and stay current with the fixed costs, right???


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Jun 20, 2013)

Lou said:


> When, in any of our memories, has a pack of gum or cigarettes gone down in price? Houses? Cars?


Houses started going down in price right after I got into the house rehab business in 2008.

Sorry Lou, but you asked.  

Dave


----------



## CBentre (Jun 20, 2013)

Lou said:


> Don't know about that, I just know it isn't cheap to get it out of the ground. Prices on those metals drop, but my (and anyone's) fixed costs do not. When, in any of our memories, has a pack of gum or cigarettes gone down in price? Houses? Cars?
> 
> No, there's only so much metal coming out of the ground.



Lou what your saying makes a lot of sense to me, I seen it happen last year with copper. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was around $4.00 a lb and dropped quickly to around low $3.00 a lb. Maybe even high 2s, anyways there was an uproar because the guys who bought thousands of tons of copper were stuck with inventory because they couldn't sell or compete because everyone was buying it so cheap. I think the U.S. government had to step in to raise the cost of scrap copper if my memory serves me correctly.


----------



## jeneje (Jun 20, 2013)

CBentre said:


> I think the U.S. government had to step in to raise the cost of scrap copper if my memory serves me correctly.


And here is where the problem is, Governments should govern, NOT DECTATE! Nor set the price.
Ken


----------



## patnor1011 (Jun 20, 2013)

What we see is price change in market with paper. There is only certain amount of gold in world, certainly not enough for everyone. I am not concerned with daily, weekly or monthly price changes.

I bought some silver for 29 euro / oz and I am not even remotely concerned about it. While it may look as bad decision now, it may look completely different tomorrow and this view can change quite often. I really do not care as I am there for a long run.
I bought it for my children.


----------



## Lou (Jun 20, 2013)

I guess what I meant to say is that it really isn't cheaper to build a house today than it was in 2005-06 at the top of the bubble.


----------



## ericrm (Jun 20, 2013)

the problem i see, is, that small guy cannot turn around fastenuf to survive a downill gold/silver price... im stuck with material that i watch loosing value day after day and i cannot do anything about it. one other problem in escrap is about paid customer ,you cannot go back and tell them to give theyr material free to save the planet now, they tasted the money they wont go back to before...


----------



## element47.5 (Jun 21, 2013)

Lou...actually, it *is* a tad cheaper to build today than at the peak, in some respects. Lumber has come down quite a bit, and labor *should* be cheaper. Where the commodity inputs have come down, governments have stepped in and raised taxes and permitting fees as a means of prolonging themselves.


----------



## 9kuuby9 (Jun 21, 2013)

look at all the prices of Gold, silver and PGM's  skyrocket?


----------



## 9kuuby9 (Jun 21, 2013)

look at all the prices of Gold, silver and PGM's  skyrocket?

Btw devaluation of paper money is called "inflation" and in worse times "hyperinflation"


----------



## Palladium (Jun 21, 2013)

Gold is a long term investment. The skies the limit by 2020. I figure we haven't seen anything yet.


----------



## JHS (Jun 21, 2013)

isn't the real value of gold what real people pay fot it? $7.68 for .1 grams .999
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-1-Gram-1-10-G-GR-999-Fine-24k-9999-Pure-Solid-24-Karat-Gold-Bullion-Bar-/130932480320?pt=US_Bullion_Bars_Rounds&hash=item1e7c2f1940&autorefresh=true#ht_2634wt_946


----------



## 9kuuby9 (Jun 24, 2013)

The prices are now really getting out of hand!


----------



## RaoOvious (Jun 25, 2013)

In the long run,it would get to the point where cash equivalents wouldn,t even mean anything.The only thing which would have value would be physical.....Im guessing demonetization of USD as reserve currency by 2020.

Anyways for short run,stick to the physical guys if you have some or buy physical whatever u can before storm really kicks in.... One of my Jeweler's customer was worried as hell cause he lost 0.1 million USD in cash on his Gold inventory in no time,he shared his concerns and I told him,"Just hold ur existing stocks and even buy more and dont even think about letting em go" :lol:


----------



## ericrm (Jun 25, 2013)

i dont know much about gold so this is just for the fun of it... some poeple said gold is always a winning proposition and investing is the solution... but if you look at the 2 black line gold was a loosing proposition for 30 years (you would have invest a lot of money before maybe dying in the streat :mrgreen: 
one other thing is in the circle , the gold have already got a huge and very similar bump in price in the past but soon after gold just got back very slowly to a more modest price for 30 years...


----------



## jeneje (Jun 25, 2013)

Investing in gold is risky at best. Yes gold is great when one gets in on the bottom and rides to the top, but then one has to ask? Is it time too or not too, take the profits and move on to another investment that is on the up-swing. 

Gold is on the down side as we all can see...will it come back, who knows, but one thing is for certain holding on to it for the up-swing is being wishful. If you buy and sell precious metals like some of us do, when the market takes a $300.00 loss in three weeks it's not a good sign to come. 

For the gold buyers to buy all the gold that they can, running the price up is good for them, but now what, if the general public can not afford it, what do they have? They brag that they have all this gold but if they can't sell for a profit it does them no good. Ok they sell some to jewelry stores to make jewelry, the electronics industry, and a few more industries, then what. If the general public is not buying it - it's then just another metal like some many more.

Ken


----------



## 9kuuby9 (Jun 25, 2013)

Well just see it this way; Gold (197Au) is a stable element where as fiat currency is an unstable isotope and will die someday...

So in the long run gold will prevail... :mrgreen:


----------



## patnor1011 (Jun 25, 2013)

jeneje said:


> If the general public is not buying it - it's then just another metal like some many more.
> 
> Ken



But to think like this is very dangerous mistake.
General public is buying gold like crazy, like never before, like end of days is coming. 
You do not see that, as it is not american general public. They are happy with paper.
You need to see what general public is doing in India, China, Indonesia... That is what should trouble us.
We use fiat currency and paper manipulation to push price down and the only result of doing this is that real thing is being snatched by them literally as we speak. These people tend to hold, not speculate. Who will be laughing at the end? :mrgreen:


----------



## jeneje (Jun 25, 2013)

patnor1011 said:


> jeneje said:
> 
> 
> > If the general public is not buying it - it's then just another metal like some many more.
> ...



Great point Pat,
So, being in the U.S. sucks if you're trying to accumulate any gold for the future with a min wage job.  All I'm saying here, if gold becomes the standard for all money, the world economy is in deep trouble. I don't see how it will survive. Paper you can burn - gold you melt. Paper in gone - Gold becomes a shinny button. :mrgreen:
interesting!
Ken


----------



## squarecoinman (Jun 25, 2013)

ken being in China or Indonesia on a minimum wages will also not buy you a lot of gold.

The fact is that any country with a hyper inflation will be a living hell if you only have paper money , we can look at Zimbabwe or you can search Argentina 
Any country with a huge dept is at risk of Hyper inflation and thus the paper money can be used as toilet paper as real toilet paper will be to expensive.
It is in situations like that, that one will be happy for a little gold and silver. 


scm


----------



## jeneje (Jun 25, 2013)

squarecoinman said:


> ken being in China or Indonesia on a minimum wages will also not buy you a lot of gold.
> 
> The fact is that any country with a hyper inflation will be a living hell if you only have paper money , we can look at Zimbabwe or you can search Argentina
> Any country with a huge dept is at risk of Hyper inflation and thus the paper money can be used as toilet paper as real toilet paper will be to expensive.
> ...



Precious metals are a great thing to have and hold for your children or a rainy day fund. People seem to forget there are other commodities that are just as valuable when the rubber hits the payment. 

The big price of gold I think has seen its peek and will settle between $500 and $700 troy ounce once all is said and done.
Ken


----------



## CBentre (Jun 25, 2013)

"The big price of gold I think has seen its peek and will settle between $500 and $700 troy ounce once all is said and done."

Ken this will not happen and I think Lou hit the nail on the head when he made the comment about how much it cost in reality to continue mining, reclaiming, and recovering gold. There are far to many cost involved and there are way to many people in this world that have some sort of connection with this metal. What your talking about would create a economical collapse around the world for governments and industry. I personally don't believe governments around the world would allow this to get to far. What your seeing now is a squeeze to promote growth and business around the world so we can see past the economical recession that transpired over the past few years. Once new business emerges and people get back to their daily routines the race is on in the commodity markets.


----------



## 9kuuby9 (Jun 25, 2013)

CBentre said:


> "
> Ken this will not happen and I think Lou hit the nail on the head when he made the comment about how much it cost in reality to continue mining, reclaiming, and recovering gold. There are far to many cost involved and there are way to many people in this world that have some sort of connection with this metal. What your talking about would create a economical collapse around the world for governments and industry. I personally don't believe governments around the world would allow this to get to far. What your seeing now is a squeeze to promote growth and business around the world so we can see past the economical recession that transpired over the past few years. Once new business emerges and people get back to their daily routines the race is on in the commodity markets.



I differ with you on this; they want to enslave us and they try to do anything to not let us become self-sufficient. they are rather now squeezing every drop of sweat from us; to rip us off via their fiat currency.

And in every city or town they build a "wall mark" and guess what happens whit every business around it?
They go Bankrupt! that's right; wall mark reports millions of losses every year, just to make any business go bankrupt around it. because they lower their prices so much that their is no possibility of Competition; instead they make losses. They want to create monopoly's they don't want people to go and build a successful business.
and you somehow have too much fate in these governments that just work for major company's and banks and these work for a long blood-line of royal families.

And when this unstable isotope system collapses; Gold and silver will return as a global currency; like it did for thousands of years!


----------



## CBentre (Jun 25, 2013)

Ken, i'm not going to pursue this conversation any further. I follow a lot of the conspiracy theories and conspiracy facts and this is not the place to discuss these matters. The only advise I can give you at this time is to look at the bigger picture on a global scale and you will understand my last comments. 

Steve


----------



## jeneje (Jun 26, 2013)

CBentre said:


> Ken, i'm not going to pursue this conversation any further. I follow a lot of the conspiracy theories and conspiracy facts and this is not the place to discuss these matters. The only advise I can give you at this time is to look at the bigger picture on a global scale and you will understand my last comments.
> 
> Steve



I agree Steve, never the less the proof is in the fallen prices. Thanks for your comments.
Ken


----------



## solar_plasma (Jun 26, 2013)

If one day gold and silver really are skyrocketing caused a hyperinflation, toilet paper will be worth more than it's weight in silver, maybe far more. Sooooo, maybe we will recover and refine paper then... :lol:


----------



## ericrm (Jun 26, 2013)

im wondering ... what would be your absolute minimum gold price to make a business out of it? i remember a movie where they guy say something like 1100$ was his minimum to do escrap economicaly . but what about you(the community) ? will you be able to refine economically at 1100$ or 700$ or 400$.


----------



## solar_plasma (Jun 26, 2013)

Isn't that depending on the price you pay for the scrap?

25% of spot for silver plated flatware is my level, higher price is not economical in small scale. But under 10€/ounce i would lose most of my interest. Then better buying maples.


Though....if the scrap prices follow equivalently, it would maybe even get more interesting, since I could do bigger batches for the same investet money.


----------



## AndyWilliams (Jun 26, 2013)

9kuuby9 said:


> Btw devaluation of paper money is called "inflation" and in worse times "hyperinflation"



More precisely, increasing the money supply is called inflation. When there are more dollars, or whatever, inflation takes hold.


----------



## GOLDbuyerCA (Jun 26, 2013)

*how it hits me*[ i just stopped salvaging 2000 to 2005, i just put it in a storage shed " storage wars wouldn't know what to do with it  " i started back up on the 1700 up swing. " some good results", for my effort. yet, now the bloom has come off Gold, Silver , and i am still trying to make a go of it. i need 900 an oz. not to put the lock on the locker again. i think 1,100 will be tested on the down side. and go even lower, by August. " in a panic? " Not really, i do this as part investment. i certainly will be cautious of future investments though. like you all, i will be downsizing my bid prices. i have reduced 25 percent already and soon will be going to 40 percent less, none of us should put ourselves in a loosing position. .. i see Cyprus as a defining point for the down turn of Gold. Gold in debt would be sold off, to pay for fiat interests. Gold is a quick option to sell, to make money for failing margin calls. short covering. real capital is Gold, but paper risks are so large, Gold is only a tiny fraction of risk coverage. Soon profits on gold will be wiped out, and gold may go even lower. i see my window of opportunity only extending into 2014. Again Paper risk losses are so high, gold is no more a Shield to cover losses. Cheers all, keep your margins working for you.


----------



## nickvc (Jun 27, 2013)

Interesting points being raised about metals. With gold the truth is it will go where the markets want for so long with speculators betting on both rises and falls, the clever players made money on gold falling while those with physical stock lost out. Again many redundant gold mines have re opened as the prices rose and many more opened but they can and will be mothballed if they become loss making until such time as the price rises make them economic again. With PGMs and silver it's not so easy to call as they are real industrial metals necessary in modern life and in many cases irreplaceable so if market demand stays steady or rises then maybe they will be a safer haven for investment as physical metals, saying that Rhodium seems silly cheap to me considering it's rarity as an element.
The fun part will be the moving margins as the refineries start to see there profits erode if prices keep falling, 1% of $700 an ounce on gold is a far cry from 1% of $1800 and costs will not have gone down to actually refine. Gold buyers will get a triple whammy lower amounts to buy with increased competition and lower returns from the refineries, for them if the price keeps falling the glory days are gone. For the vast majority of the forum members lower prices will mean harder decisions about what to recover and refine if they want to either make a little money or cover costs at least, this in turn opens the doors for larger operators who have economy of scale to help offset costs.
Interesting times ahead if the prices continue to fall.


----------



## Palladium (Jun 27, 2013)

I was looking at my numbers and doing some figuring the other day and i couldn't do nothing but grin and bear it. Lets say i sold $2000 worth of refined gold from my profits. Gold is down 25% from it's high so theoretically i lost $500 in unrealized profit. Even if it's only down 10 percent i lost $200 on that transaction. Trying to offset those unrealized profits by increasing production is what i'm shooting for. It's either increase volume to offset the losses or increase rates and i'm not doing that. I'm glad it's crashing right now and even though it bites in the wallet im in this for the long haul. This will help shake some of the competition, gold buyers, as well as refineries out the market in all sectors. To many people been playing in it for to long. If you come out the other side then chances are good for market position and profit potential. I'm rocking right along and betting my horse on good old gold filled. Burn Baby Burn !!!!!!


----------



## nickvc (Jun 27, 2013)

I must admit your attitude is the right one, look for more volume and try to hold your rates as long as possible, everybody in the refining or reclamation game is facing similar problems and your customers are looking at lower returns also, as I said interesting times lie ahead.


----------



## patnor1011 (Jun 27, 2013)

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/6/26_As_Gold_%26_Silver_Plunge_Here_Are_Two_Remarkable_Charts.html


----------



## solar_plasma (Jun 27, 2013)

humm ...2016...should not wonder...but what I never understood is, why should silver and gold prices be cyclic? I can't see any law of nature, which would induce that.

The prices are made 

...by superstitiuos market analysis and those who believe in this kind of superstition.
...by real industry and consumer demand

I think it's a complex system, as it is defined in the chaos theories, like the weather. In some margins it is possible to define prohabilities, not more, not less.

Fact is, it is not likely, that our consumer industry could live without silver and gold anymore. It is likely, that it will need more of it and it will be more and more expensive to produce. Money is cheap to produce and will always be. So, the price has to go upwards on the short or long run. Everything else is superstition.

I see parallels to refining - patience and keeping calm are the keys.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Jun 27, 2013)

solar_plasma said:


> humm ...2016...should not wonder...but what I never understood is, why should silver and gold prices be cyclic? I can't see any law of nature, which would induce that.


They are cyclic because the people with a lot of money can make greater profits than if they simply increased at a regular rate.



> The prices are made
> 
> ...by superstitiuos market analysis and those who believe in this kind of superstition.
> ...by real industry and consumer demand


or, by the large organizations that can influence the markets to their advantage. Take a look at the youtube video Göran just posted: Secret world of Gold

Dave


----------



## solar_plasma (Jun 27, 2013)

> or, by the large organizations that can influence the markets to their advantage. Take a look at the youtube video Göran just posted: Secret world of Gold



Yes, ofcourse. Guess I have read and seen almost every facette of public available information about this problem. Nevertheless, human is not able to change the world clima with its tiny CO2 output, and people who have more money than a medium industry state are not able to manipulate the market on the long run. Ofcourse, they believe they can. Nature and complex systems are playing in an other league than any bilderberger. :lol: and that makes me believe, there is a god.


----------



## JHS (Jun 27, 2013)

If you havent noticed there are less new comers to the forum in the last couple of weeks.Ebay prices are also dropping with lesser quality material being hit the hardest.when it bottoms out i will buy hard.i can hold it for me or my kids.it will go up faster than it went down.remember when it was deregulated went from $35.00 to $500.00 real fast.burry it.
john


----------



## Geo (Jul 2, 2013)

ok guys, keep your eyes on the bouncing ball.


----------



## modtheworld44 (Jul 2, 2013)

Geo said:


> ok guys, keep your eyes on the bouncing ball.



Geo

I think when it hits $1300 again, we'll all have to strap in for the next bounce sequence.LOL :mrgreen:


----------



## CBentre (Jul 4, 2013)

solar_plasma said:


> humm ...2016...should not wonder...but what I never understood is, why should silver and gold prices be cyclic? I can't see any law of nature, which would induce that.
> 
> The prices are made
> 
> ...




Your absolutely right about it being fact, here's a hint as to why. I read an article a few months back about supply and demand, the main focus was on the automotive industry and how the world is eager to move into the hybrid/fully electric vehicles. Not only will they be fully electric but there will be lots of fun gadgets as well. So just take a moment and think about how many vehicles get produced a year and try and imagine the circuitry that goes into it. It will play a heavy hand in the commodities market all around, more so with copper but there will be more precious metals needed as well. Our society is moving into a new tech generation and I firmly believe the commodities are going to increase in demand to fulfill the needs of tomorrow.


----------



## 9kuuby9 (Jul 5, 2013)

The Value of dollar is not based on gold it's rather based on Oil; that's why it's called petrodollar.

Whit all those wars; the US gets quite some oil cashed in, therefore the value increases since it backed on something that will run out eventually.

Remember the OPEC Oil Embargo in 1974'? the US dollar lost over 400% of it's value in 4 days...


----------



## AndyWilliams (Jul 5, 2013)

9kuuby9 said:


> Remember the OPEC Oil Embargo in 1974'? the US dollar lost over 400% of it's value in 4 days...



How can anything lose 400% of its value? Example: Gold is at $1200 (no, not really, just for the sake of argument). For gold to lose 100% of its value, it must go to zero. To lose 400%, it must go to -$3600. Meaning, someone has to pay me $3600 when I BUY an ounce from them. By what measure are you seeing a 400% decline in that time?


----------



## macfixer01 (Jul 8, 2013)

AndyWilliams said:


> 9kuuby9 said:
> 
> 
> > Remember the OPEC Oil Embargo in 1974'? the US dollar lost over 400% of it's value in 4 days...
> ...




And I think the rest of us just assume he mistyped and really meant 40%.


----------



## squarecoinman (Jul 8, 2013)

macfixer01 said:


> AndyWilliams said:
> 
> 
> > 9kuuby9 said:
> ...




ON a chemistry forum misspelling something from 40 to 400 is pretty bad, " and than you add 400 % nitric acid " could create a dangerous situation 
and therefore it is a very good idea to read before you post. 

scm


----------



## 9kuuby9 (Jul 8, 2013)

AndyWilliams said:


> 9kuuby9 said:
> 
> 
> > Remember the OPEC Oil Embargo in 1974'? the US dollar lost over 400% of it's value in 4 days...
> ...



example; with one dollar you could buy one loaf of bread. when it crashed (400%) you will need 400 dollars to buy one loaf of bread.

Is it that hard to understand? :lol:

(edit) A better example would be; a barrel of oil is sold for $3; after the crash it's sold for $12. which is pretty much a lot! 

And as I stated their are too many factors involved 8)


----------



## squarecoinman (Jul 8, 2013)

9kuuby9 said:


> AndyWilliams said:
> 
> 
> > 9kuuby9 said:
> ...




First of all the inflation in the US was a lot less it was ( 11.3 % ) in 1974 .
Second when you write that something looses 400 % of it value , it would end up in minus. If a dollar looses 100 % of its value it is worthless , and it can not get less then nothing so loosing 400 % is not possible 
Third when a piece of bread cost 1 dollar and the next day 400 dollar you would be talking about Inflation not loosing value over 400 % .

scm


----------



## solar_plasma (Jul 8, 2013)

> example; with one dollar you could buy one loaf of bread. when it crashed (400%) you will need 400 dollars to buy one loaf of bread.



...and 400$ related to 1$ would be 40 000 %, since every 1$ is 100% :lol: ....just don't do any daytrading with you alien mathmatics :mrgreen:


----------



## modtheworld44 (Jul 8, 2013)

solar_plasma said:


> > example; with one dollar you could buy one loaf of bread. when it crashed (400%) you will need 400 dollars to buy one loaf of bread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...and 400$ related to 1$ would be 40 000 %, since every 1$ is 100% :lol: ....just don't do any daytrading with you alien mathmatics :mrgreen:



solar_plasma

Here's my go at what your trying to explain,correct me if I'm wrong.

If gold was $1.00 a gram and you buy one gram you would have 100%. Then for every dollar after that you would get another 100% return.
Gold jumps to $4.00 a gram you now have 400% return,Gold then crashes to $0.00 which gives you 400% loss.Is it easer to understand looking at it this way.



modtheworld44


----------



## 9kuuby9 (Jul 8, 2013)

Well with economics these days it's not just simple math anymore; quite a lot of subjects are bound together and easily can multiply or decrease the numbers.

It's rather Complexer than you think; if it's was just Math then the whole world would now what is going on and what games the governments are playing with the economy.

I just gave that example to translate it into a palatable medium for most of us to understand.


----------



## Geo (Jul 8, 2013)

its simple to me. ive noticed a decrease in gas prices ($3.09 per gallon today) that coincided with the decrease in the price of ALL metals. when the US dollar is strong on the international market, it drives the price of commodities down generally. the commodities that remain unaffected and stay the same price in the decline are mostly perishables.market demand keeps these things at an elevated price until the decreases trickle down to the dinner table. it still moves the same but at a slower pace. since precious metals are used as currency worldwide, the prices are always in a fluid state and gasoline is close behind. it barely is unloaded from the tanker before it heads to market. it is closely linked to the buying power of the dollar.


----------



## AndyWilliams (Jul 11, 2013)

macfixer01 said:


> And I think the rest of us just assume he mistyped and really meant 40%.



Well, you know what they say when you assume. 




9kuuby9 said:


> example; with one dollar you could buy one loaf of bread. when it crashed (400%) you will need 400 dollars to buy one loaf of bread.
> Is it that hard to understand? :lol:
> (edit) A better example would be; a barrel of oil is sold for $3; after the crash it's sold for $12. which is pretty much a lot!
> And as I stated their are too many factors involved 8)


----------



## solar_plasma (Jul 15, 2013)

> solar_plasma
> 
> Here's my go at what your trying to explain,correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> ...



Gold or money in your hand? Never. Then you have still lost only 100%. Normally, you cannot lose more than 100%. Only banks can trade with something that is less than nothing (0%) and even earn money by doing this. So, only if you trade with banks, you can lose more than 100%. Losing more than 100% is the modern form of serfdom, voluntary slavery. And when/if GB (without Scotland)/the City of London should be gone out of the EU, D and F will change that a bit, I hope.


----------



## rickbb (Jul 15, 2013)

You only gain or lose when you sell it. If you buy at 1 and sell at 4 then, and only then, do you have a 400% gain. 

If you don't sell it then it's only potentially worth 4, not actually worth 4 and you have not "gained" anything yet.

If you buy at 1 and it drops to 0 and you don't sell it, then you have not lost anything, you still have the object that has the potential to be a 100% loss. 

You can't lose 400% since you never sold it to gain the 400%, you're still only into it for the 1 you paid for it.

It's how the stock brokers con you out of your life's savings, by quoting you the "potential earnings" as if it was real money, it's not.


----------



## Geo (Jul 15, 2013)

if you go into debt (lets say on a loan) and the cost of the loan and the interest resulted in you owing $500 on a $100 loan (ive seen it first hand) you have lost 400%. this is just an example but there are other ways that you can have losses that was below zero.


----------



## rickbb (Jul 15, 2013)

People who borrow at that kind of interest have lost way more than 400%. Just saying.


----------



## Platdigger (Jul 20, 2013)

Speaking of metal prices, I think this may be as close to being equal in value I have ever seen pd and rh.


----------



## CBentre (Jul 21, 2013)

Platdigger said:


> Speaking of metal prices, I think this may be as close to being equal in value I have ever seen pd and rh.



Nice observation, were in for a ride!


----------

