# question on boards



## Dwsj65 (Dec 8, 2011)

I, as an industrial electrician, have access to literally hundreds of boards that are not functional anymore... if I can remove the components at work by melting the solder with a heat gun and bumping them into a bucket or something, is that the best way to approach them? I have access to a large manual shear to remove the fingers... but these boards have relays, capacitors, mini transformers, resistors, flatpacks, etc... I am aware of the fumes from melting solder, but we solder things often so I know how to handle that. Just wondering if that is the best way? I know it will take some time and time is a factor, but I can do this on the clock and get paid for my time, so that is not an issue for me. I can take a few pics of the boards and try to upload them if that makes a difference. Thanks guys!


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## Oz (Dec 8, 2011)

Sell the boads as is, and save the labor. That is unless you want this as a hobby and do not mind the reduction in pay per hour just to be able to say you did it yourself.


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## Dwsj65 (Dec 8, 2011)

I will still make what I make per hour regardless... I do want to get into this as a hobby... I already prospect for gold, and would like to recover it as well... that is why I was going to do this.. I have absolutely nothing invested in them besides time, and I am already being compensated well for that... thanks!


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## TXWolfie (Dec 9, 2011)

Dwsj65 said:


> I will still make what I make per hour regardless... I do want to get into this as a hobby... I already prospect for gold, and would like to recover it as well... that is why I was going to do this.. I have absolutely nothing invested in them besides time, and I am already being compensated well for that... thanks!




Best thing I can tell you is to look for a link to hoke's book and read that. And read the various posts in this forum ther are alot of very knowledgeable people on here. A few of the moderators on this forums will have links to websites or downloads and check them out, remember the search box is your friend. Have fun, sit down, hold on and enjoy the ride.


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## Dwsj65 (Dec 9, 2011)

I gave read Hokes book 3 times... doesn't deal with circuit boards


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## Geo (Dec 9, 2011)

there has been alot of discussions about what contains gold on circuit boards. the most you may get is the advise to read the forum. C.M. Hokes book was well before printed circuit boards but the principles of how to refine precious metals still apply. my advise to you would be not to throw away anything from the board until you have identified it and know whether or not it contains anything of value. gold hides in alot of places that cant be seen easily. there are other metals in electronics that have value and that is why you should not throw anything away until your sure of its contents. i believe the depopulated boards still have value though im not sure what it may be but that is part of the experience is searching and discovering these things at a pace that you can process the information. don't try to learn it all too quickly as it will only lead to confusion. collect and sort your material, study the processes and when you have enough material to process do small samples and learn on a small scale at first before you commit large amounts of materials and time.

good luck and good refining.


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## silversaddle1 (Dec 9, 2011)

Sell the boards as is, buy gold.


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## Dwsj65 (Dec 9, 2011)

These are the boards I am asking about. As I said, I want this to be a hobby. Not particularly interested in selling as is and buying gold.....


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## joem (Dec 9, 2011)

Do both.
Trim the fingers, remove obvious eproms with visible gold, and then sell the boards for profits they have many good ics and should get a decent price.


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## kuma (Dec 9, 2011)

Hi all , how are tricks?
I hope all is well! :mrgreen: 
Some nice looking eproms and fingers there , and I'll bet that them eprom sockets are good too go aswell! 8) 
All the best with it chief and kind regards,
Chris


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## vango57 (Dec 9, 2011)

Chances are that you will get less for the depopulated boards than if you had left everything on them, except for fingers if they have them. Add Pin connectors and that might be the deepest I go for removal of components. Curious to where you are located? Would like to see pictures too. Feel free to PM me if you wish as I have alternative ways that are faster to remove components and you are not slinging hot solder all over the place.
Vango57


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## Geo (Dec 10, 2011)

i see some really good looking stuff on those boards. although theres not a fortune to be made, there's enough on those four boards to make a decent button. the red dip switches on three of those need to be opened gently as they will contain a small gold over silver ball for each switch, each has six switches so six balls in each. looks like some magnetic reed switches on the far right board,be careful of these as some contain mercury. most of the components i see contain something good. check the small glass bodied diodes with a jewelers glass or magnifying glass because i have found that even the ones with tin plated legs still contain gold inside the glass, its not much but gold is where you find it.


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## Dwsj65 (Dec 10, 2011)

Located several states away from you vango. I posted pics of the boards... I am removing the components. Don't mean to sound disrespectful there, as I certainly value the knowledge and experience here... but I want to do this... I do want to learn this hobby and I feel a group if boards like this that I have nothing invested in could be a good start... as stated before I can remove components while on the clock at work during my spare time... I would certainly love to here your other way of depopulating the boards though... that is why I started this thread.. to learn..

Thanks Geo for the response... I figured at a minimum I would remove the chips, sockets, and of course the fingers... I am separating them as I remove them... I will dig into the dip switches... may need some advice as to where to go with them once I get them opened ... 

Thanks so much guys! !


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## patnor1011 (Dec 10, 2011)

Heat gun. or
Steel pan filled with sand - put board on top of it. or
Small grill oven - set temperature on lower setting, to just melt solder not burn plastic.


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## glondor (Dec 10, 2011)

The best way I have found for depopulating is a reciprocating saw like a sawzall. Make a jig for your boards, get a scraper blade for the saw and go to town. I see the blades now are available up to 3 1/2 inches wide. Stuff flies everywhere!!. I just do it in a clean area and sweep up all the stuff after. I use various size sieves to sort it after. Some times I just buzz off certain parts then go after other parts later. With the right jig to hold the board you can spend more time switching boards than cleaning them off it is that fast. Watch out for kickback....Did 130 pounds of ram once in 2 days with just a 1 inch wide broken blade. 8)


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## Shaul (Dec 10, 2011)

Also, always scrape away some traces to see whether there is gold plating under the solder mask. Many times, what you thought was just copper, is completely plated gold on both sides of the board.

Shaul


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## pimpneightez (Dec 22, 2011)

Geo said:


> i see some really good looking stuff on those boards. although theres not a fortune to be made, there's enough on those four boards to make a decent button. the red dip switches on three of those need to be opened gently as they will contain a small gold over silver ball for each switch, each has six switches so six balls in each. looks like some magnetic reed switches on the far right board,be careful of these as some contain mercury. most of the components i see contain something good. check the small glass bodied diodes with a jewelers glass or magnifying glass because i have found that even the ones with tin plated legs still contain gold inside the glass, its not much but gold is where you find it.




I found some of these balls on a bunch of telecom dip switches. These are no0t solid gold correct? I thought they were plated. Looks alot like 24k though.


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## Smack (Dec 22, 2011)

Yup, your balls are plated :lol:


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## Geo (Dec 22, 2011)

when you get enough or all you can get of the gold plated balls, process with a little nitric acid to dissolve silver leaving only the gold. be sure to wash them first because dip switches with these balls contain grease.


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## Dwsj65 (Jan 13, 2012)

Let me ask one more quick question while I am still in the collecting phase please. One or two of these boards have solder on the fingers... Yes, on the fingers. It was where repairs to the boards were made quickly to get production lines back up and running. Pieces of wire have been soldered from fingers to other places on the boards to replace burned out traces.. My question, if I use the AP method with nothing but trimmed fingers, will this solder cause me a problem ? I have read many times on here that solder can cause a problem.. 

Thanks guys!!


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## jack_burton (Jan 13, 2012)

There is a chemical method for removing solder from the boards, and presumably the fingers- search or look around, it was posted by lazersteve.


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## kuma (Jan 13, 2012)

Hi chief , how are tricks?
I hope your well!



Dwsj65 said:


> Let me ask one more quick question while I am still in the collecting phase please. One or two of these boards have solder on the fingers... Yes, on the fingers. It was where repairs to the boards were made quickly to get production lines back up and running. Pieces of wire have been soldered from fingers to other places on the boards to replace burned out traces.. My question, if I use the AP method with nothing but trimmed fingers, will this solder cause me a problem ? I have read many times on here that solder can cause a problem..
> 
> Thanks guys!!



A little solder shouldn't be a problem with the AP process , heres a link to a recent thread that discussed just that ;

http://tinyurl.com/6u4gqg2

All the best with it and kind regards for now ,
Chris :mrgreen:

( Edited for clarity )


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## cleanbucket1 (Jan 14, 2012)

If your dead set on dealing with the boards and the componants, cut the fingers, process those. Theyre easy and usually give a decent yield. For the rest, invest in an air compressor if u dont already have one. Then buy an air chizzel. U can use this chiz to remove the componants from the boards. I suggest you get one of those big rectangle rubbermaid containers u use to store your Xmas decor. and get a large cardboard box and open it up. Place the cardboard inside and around 3 of the 4 sides of the rub made container and chiz them toward that as a back splash sort of way. They will all drop into the container and save a lot of time from many other ways.

GOOD LUCK


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## element47 (Jan 14, 2012)

Keep it out, if you can. I know exactly what you mean, having been in the electronics repair game some years back. Try to keep it out. Tin creates problems that are not worth the trouble/value of losing a finger or two. ON THE BOARD that is.


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## Tewks (Jan 31, 2012)

Scraper attachment on my Dremel multimax works for cleaning board. But it does fling the little things around a bit!


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## Oz (Jan 31, 2012)

I hope you guys have "very" good respirators. There is beryllium copper on most mother boards, look up the toxicity of beryllium. 
Be safe!
Oz


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## publius (Jan 31, 2012)

Oz said:


> I hope you guys have "very" good respirators. There is beryllium copper on most mother boards, look up the toxicity of beryllium.
> Be safe!
> Oz


From: http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19990902.html A Hazard Information Bulletin.
The current OSHA PELs for beryllium are 2 micrograms/m3 as an 8-hour TWA, 5 micrograms/m3 as a ceiling not to be exceeded for more than 30 minutes at a time, and 25 micrograms/m3 :shock: as a peak exposure never to be exceeded. The OSHA limits have been in place for nearly 30 years and have not been revised in that time. The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) current Threshold Limit Value (TLV)* for beryllium is 0.05 micrograms/m3 averaged over an 8-hour work shift. :shock: :shock: :shock: 

TWA = Time Weighted Average


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## kuma (Feb 23, 2012)

Hello all , how are tricks?
I hope all is well!



Geo said:


> the red dip switches on three of those need to be opened gently as they will contain a small gold over silver ball for each switch, each has six switches so six balls in each.



I'd been wanting to see these gold plated balls for myself as they sounded kind of cool ( :roll: ) , so when I came across one of these dip switches myself the other day I took some pictures so that others who hadn't seen these yet , but wanted too , knew what to expect when they found them and looked inside , :mrgreen: 

This is the red DIP Switch before opening ;

http://tinyurl.com/89uar44

This is a reverse angle view of the same switch showing gold plated silver balls , after careful opening with wide pliers ; 

http://tinyurl.com/7jsmrqr

This is the small golden balls out of the switch housing , they're next to a cigarette lighter for scale , & they're proper tiny! ; 

http://tinyurl.com/7bejob6

All the best for now everybody , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:


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## Findm-Keepm (Feb 23, 2012)

Oz said:


> I hope you guys have "very" good respirators. There is beryllium copper on most mother boards, look up the toxicity of beryllium.
> Be safe!
> Oz


Where exactly is the BeCu? 

I've worked with Printed Circuit boards for 22+ years, and have never heard of BeCu being on them. BeCu is most commonly used in electronics for non-magnetic uses, like leaf springs, tensioners, and heat sinks (Wakefield and AAVID both use BeCu for heat sinks due to it's high thermal conductivity). Other places I'd expect to find BeCu, from experience: rate gyroscopes, non-sparking (Oxygen use) tools, and crimp connectors for humid conditions.

Berylliosis is some serious stuff, and I don't take any Beryllium exposure likely. BeCu is a lower level toxin than beryllium in non-alloy form:

On delivery the material is in solid form and harmless. If the material
is worked up in such a way as to produce airborne particles (through
dry grinding, polishing, electrical discharge machining, melting,
welding etc.) there may be a risk of inhalation. See point 12.
*Ordinary handling, punching, moulding and most types of cutting are
harmless.* Heat treatment at atmospheric temperatures of up to 400
degrees Celsius is safe, but temperatures above this may release
oxides that are dangerous if inhaled. This risk can be avoided by
conducting heat treatment under protected atmospheric conditions.

I used to work with an inertial navigation device that had rate gyroscopes with beryllium in them - the gyros would fail in a manner that would shred the innards. If we discovered the damage, we had to double bag the stuff, mark it as HAZMAT, and go for a blood screening for 6 months after the incident. Never had any problems, but it takes only one incident to create such. 

Cheers,

Brian
EDIT: Alloy, not allow, and clarity


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## Oz (Feb 24, 2012)

Findm-Keepm said:


> Where exactly is the BeCu?


You are right that it is typically used in non-magnetic spring applications. On computer mother boards you have the expansion card slots and CPU socket that have just that sort of requirement.


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## Geo (Feb 24, 2012)

i cut these off with a scraper and hammer by hand. do you think there is any danger from this?


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## Oz (Feb 24, 2012)

Geo said:


> i cut these off with a scraper and hammer by hand. do you think there is any danger from this?


Yes I do! 

I have warned about this risk before. You would not catch me doing mechanical deconstruction of computer boards without the proper equipment. Just think of the other metals and elements you are making dust with and ingesting even if you do not worry about beryllium.

September 2, 1999 

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has recently obtained information suggesting that OSHA's current 2 micrograms per cubic meter of air (micrograms/m3) eight-hour time-weighted average (TWA) permissible exposure limit (PEL) for beryllium in the workplace may not be adequate to prevent the occurrence of chronic beryllium disease (CBD), a disabling and often fatal lung disease, among exposed workers.
(Just for reference, a microgram is 1 millionth of a gram)

Please read the rest: http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19990902.html


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## Findm-Keepm (Feb 24, 2012)

Oz said:


> Geo said:
> 
> 
> > i cut these off with a scraper and hammer by hand. do you think there is any danger from this?
> ...



For clarity, that's for pure Beryllium. BeCu has only 2.1% beryllium (remainder is copper and trace cobalt) , and has it's own MSDS. BeCu and Be are two separate metals. The threat from BeCu is less than that for Beryllium. Pure beryllium is not used in electronics - at least not in it's bare form. Alloys such as BeCu and AlBe are prevalent, however, and each carries it's own risks.

Cheers,
Brian


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## Oz (Feb 24, 2012)

Findm-Keepm said:


> For clarity, that's for pure Beryllium. BeCu has only 2.1% beryllium (remainder is copper and trace cobalt) , and has it's own MSDS.


Yes you are correct, beryllium copper is an alloy. So using your 2.1% beryllium figure that means that OSHA has determined that 95.2381 millionths of a gram of your beryllium copper is beyond the safe limit.


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## Findm-Keepm (Feb 24, 2012)

Oz said:


> Findm-Keepm said:
> 
> 
> > For clarity, that's for pure Beryllium. BeCu has only 2.1% beryllium (remainder is copper and trace cobalt) , and has it's own MSDS.
> ...



It's the same Exposure limit, regardless of particle size or chemical form. Here's some really good info for all, straight from Brush-Wellman, the leader in Beryllium production, both raw metals and alloys. I attended their Beryllium Exposure half-day Seminar in 2004, but the exposure levels were changed in 2005, so my seminar package and CD-ROM is useless.

Airborne Beryllium Exposure Standards

RESPIRATORY PROTECTION FOR PROCESSING BERYLLIUM-CONTAINING MATERIALS

A P100 (organic vapor and particulates) filter is sufficient, per the second document. Most of us already have a P100 or similar particulate filter.

I guess the bottom line (and getting back to the original topic) is to know your material before cutting/shearing/rendering. Let's be careful, and get that gold.

Cheers,

Brian


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## malfeces (Oct 4, 2012)

Isnt there a large qty of beryllium on the magnetron in microwave ovens?


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## Smack (Oct 4, 2012)

Bottom line....If your breathing anything but what's in fresh air you should take action to correct your error.


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## g_axelsson (Oct 4, 2012)

Oz said:


> Findm-Keepm said:
> 
> 
> > Where exactly is the BeCu?
> ...



Do you have any reference? I have always had problem with the pins in the PCI-sockets because they are made of phosphor bronze and contains a few percent tin. Phosphor bronze is also springy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor_bronze

A quick search of the net gives :
AMP PCI contact made of phosphor bronze with gold flash or gold plate on nickel in contact area.
http://www.farnell.com/cad/52241.pdf
LGA socket with gold plated beryllium copper springs.
http://www.lgasockets.com/desc/default.htm
PGA-socket with gold plated beryllium copper contacts.
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/86921.pdf

It looks like PCI-contacts are phosphor bronze and CPU-sockets are beryllium copper.
I haven't been able to find any counter examples with a quick search.

/Göran


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