# Gold Flakes



## nmlfreitas (Jul 2, 2012)

Hello guys 
I've received gold flakes like this ones on the picture to refine to fine gold.
The guy is asking me how much can i pay for this, does anyone of you know if this is good. 5 grams each bag.
He claims to be from rest of jewellery, i don't buy it, i know its difficult to say but, how much fine gold on 10g of this?
Waiting to hear from you!


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## jimdoc (Jul 2, 2012)

Test it. It looks like fake Ebay flakes.

Jim


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 2, 2012)

I agree with jimdoc, there is probably no gold there. True gold leaf is already fine gold. The flakes you received don't appear to have the deep, gold color I would expect from fine gold.

Place a couple of flakes in a spot plate or test tube. Add a couple of drops of HCl and a drop of bleach. Test the solution with stannous.

Dave


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## NobleMetalWorks (Jul 2, 2012)

The question you are asking kind of reminds me of a question I have heard several times over the years, to explain weights.

Which would you rather have hit you in the head, a ton of lead, or a ton of feathers. Often, people will say, without thinking about it, a ton of feathers. Not that it makes any difference. It doesn't matter if you are hit by a ton of lead, or a ton of feathers. A ton, is a ton.

If the flakes you received are gold, then you would have the same weight as the gold is. So if you have 5 grams of flake, then you have 5 grams of gold.

You will not know if it's actually gold or not until you test it.

Scott


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## nmlfreitas (Jul 2, 2012)

I agree with you SBrown.



SBrown said:


> If the flakes you received are gold, then you would have the same weight as the gold is. So if you have 5 grams of flake, then you have 5 grams of gold.
> 
> Scott


But are the flakes 8 karat, 14 k or 24k ??? the amount of gold is different right ??
Is it possible to refine them if they are like 8k or 16k, to fine gold?? Thats why i'm asking if i have 8k gold in 10g can i turn them into 4g or 3g of fine gold???
If those flakes have gold i can test then like jimdoc says.


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## NobleMetalWorks (Jul 2, 2012)

jimdoc is right, you should test them to see if they are really gold or not.

I believe, and I expect someone to correct me if I am wrong, that gold flake is usually 22k or better.

Scott


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## qst42know (Jul 2, 2012)

There are *tons* of gold flake out there that is zero karat.

One drop of nitric acid should tell the tale.


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## BAMGOLD (Jul 2, 2012)

I seen these on eBay the other day, there is a guy selling alot more than that for 30$ or something, and most posts say this isn't real gold, it is only for decoration, or gifts.


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## Harold_V (Jul 3, 2012)

The fastest and easiest test is the one described by qst42know, although the dissolution and testing with stannous chloride would also be valid. It's just a little more cumbersome. 

If the material is gold, it won't dissolve with a drop of acid, as it is highly unlikely to be anything under about 21 karat, if even that low. What it will most likely do is immediately disappear, leaving behind a blue drop, plus yielding that familiar brown cloud as it rapidly dissolves. If it were to contain some gold, it would remain as a brown powder, or it would remain as a solid. That's highly unlikely. 

Harold


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 3, 2012)

Here's the same stuff with the same label and packaging and it is obviously (at least, to me), from the same seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-GRAMS-LARGE-BEAUTIFUL-GOLD-LEAF-FLAKE-BULLION-SCRAP-GREAT-DEAL-/180790651821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a17f66bad

Read his listing. He basically tells you it isn't gold, in a roundabout way. He's one of the few people selling this fake gold that is reasonably honest with the buyer.


> This gold leaf flake is cut by a leafing company that blends & cuts different base Metal gold leaf scrap into flakes. This Large gold flake is very beautiful and Look like 24 Karat Gold. These beautiful gold leaf flakes are not designed to be melted down. I do not make any claim as to the percentage of actual gold contained in this flake. These are sold to resellers & gift shops, placed in bags, vials and bottles for resale Making Great Profit. The flakes are Large. Great for filled vials, collecting, etc. Not for precious metal investment. CANNOT Be Eaten!!!



There is ZERO gold in this stuff. It is a yellow copper alloy similar to yellow brass. Whatever you do, don't do anything to alter it. Don't melt it. Don't dissolve more than a small pinch of it (in nitric to test it if you still don't believe us - if it dissolves, it isn't gold). Package it up in the original bags and return it, AS IS. If you do ANYTHING to change the material or the weight, the person you got it from could claim you stole his gold. I've seen these things happen.


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 3, 2012)

While on eBay, I found a new scam (sort of) regarding gold leaf. It is made by evaporating a thin gold layer on a copper foil base. Although it doesn't say it, I would think there is a Ni layer between the Au and Cu to prevent migration.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-x-Gold-Leaf-24K-Sheets-for-Design-Gilding-Art-/350198611130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item518976bcba

If you Google "gold on base", you find a lot of the entries are from the same company selling on eBay (Blue-Point-International). I sent the following email to this seller:


> I Googled "gold on base" and found a lot of entries. Most all (including you) said the actual gold thickness is 0.2-0.4 microns. However, at the lower thickness of 0.2 microns, the gold value (at today's spot of $1611/tr.oz.) of 500, 2"x2" sheets (total of 2000 sq.in.) would be about $262.00. So, everybody is either lying or terribly misinformed. Probably, the total thickness of the gold plus base is 0.2-0.4 microns. Real 24K leaf (with NO base) is only about 0.1 microns thick. Look forward to your response.



Here's a quote from the listing:


> Thickness of Gold in each leaf approx. 0.2 - 0.4 microns on base


The company is selling this 500 sheet lot for $15. Therefore, considering profits down the line and manufacturing costs, I would estimate the actual gold thickness to be in the range of 0.001 to 0.002 microns (.00000004" - .00000008"), more or less.


Another listing for essentially the same stuff, although the sheets are smaller - 1.5" x 1.5". In this case, though, it sounds like he's correctly saying the OVERALL thickness is 0.2-0.4 microns.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-Gold-Leaf-Sheets-for-Gilding-Design-Art-/260784283182?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb7f45e2e

-----------------

In thinking further on this, I doubt if the "base" is metallic. Somewhere, I found a series of photos by one of these sellers (I can't seem to find it again). In them, they dissolved the "base" with some sort of thinner to show the resulting foil. This would indicate, of course, that the base couldn't be metallic. In the vinyl sign business, they use a product called Sign-Gold. This is a thin layer of real gold on a yellow vinyl base. The leaf above must be similar, but thinner with no adhesive.
http://www.suppliesunlimitedonline.com/supplies/index.php?cPath=1_22_57&osCsid=294b514abab2a0417b33565009100547

I found the photos I spoke of. What they're trying to prove is confusing. Maybe there's NO gold on this stuff.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Gold-Base-Gold-leaf-sheets-size-4-5-x-4-5-cm-/120704020185


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## nmlfreitas (Jul 3, 2012)

GoldSilverPro 
I belive in you. It's a Scam. I'm going to tell the guy to come and get them back.
I'm not going to even test it.
Thanks for your help.


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## jimdoc (Jul 3, 2012)

nmlfreitas said:


> GoldSilverPro
> I belive in you. It's a Scam. I'm going to tell the guy to come and get them back.
> I'm not going to even test it.
> Thanks for your help.



Now he will probably think you swapped out his real flakes for fake flakes.

Jim


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## Harold_V (Jul 4, 2012)

jimdoc said:


> nmlfreitas said:
> 
> 
> > GoldSilverPro
> ...


Very likely. That would be a wonderful opportunity to invite the person to peruse this thread, for a better understanding. 

Harold


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## goldsilverpro (Jul 4, 2012)

nmlfreitas said:


> GoldSilverPro
> I belive in you. It's a Scam. I'm going to tell the guy to come and get them back.
> I'm not going to even test it.
> Thanks for your help.



Keep us posted on what the guy says when you return it.


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## nmlfreitas (Jul 12, 2012)

Update:
The guy that has tried to sell me the flakes has accepted the devolution.
After all its not gold, if it is is a very very little amount.


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