# advertising and being heckled by other recyclers



## rmi2416 (May 10, 2011)

I have recently took to craigslist and other social media sites targeting my area. Searching for electronic scrap offering pick ups and even to pay by the pound. I recently started to get heckled by email by some of the big recyclers in my area about not being a certified recycler or what not. The only thing my research can show is that the only certification a recycling company can receive is DOD approved data destruction process. I am not a business yet nor will I be until I can gather more capital. The only conformance I can see for a "recycling company" is that I manage the data of incoming and the data of outgoing material. I try to pick off the easy stuff for refining and then find buyers for the rest. I just want to be sure that I ,indeed, are not breaking any laws. And that the hecklers are just blowing smoke up my bottom. I wanted to bounce some of this off you guys because I realize a lot of you are in recycling and refining or know a bit about both. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated too. 

Regards,
Ross


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## seawolf (May 10, 2011)

Check with the department of commerce in your county / state for laws regarding recycling. In most states I believe that if you are just collecting and reselling to a scrap yard / recycler it is considered a free enterprise. If it is a full time business a license and other rules / laws may apply.
Mark


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## chrisp (May 11, 2011)

in pa the law says you must be registered and comply with tough regulations to disassemble computers , but not if your only handling the scrap (i believe). the nation is tightening the laws on everything that has anything to do with e-scrap. recycling today is a resourcful guide to alot of new laws and u might be able to find a directory in the back of the magazine,the site is recyclingtoday.com it has alot of info also.i hope this helps


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## rusty (May 11, 2011)

The commercial guy buys an annual business license, has several employees, pays into compensation, pension plans, medical, rent and tax's on commercially zoned land not to mention investment, while you get a free lunch. 

Your eagerness to become rich has opened doors that you will find difficult to close now that they've been opened. If the local e-wast company wants you to cease and desist they do not have to send harassing emails, a telephone call to a bylaw inspector will do this with little effort on their part.

If it were me, I would either relocate, or shut my collection services down for a month or two until the smoke cleared, during that cooling off period I would ask myself what where my mistakes and how can I avoid repeating them.

This in no way is to be construed as legal advice. Ever watch a cat hunt.

Regards
Rusty


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## aflacglobal (May 11, 2011)

rusty said:


> Ever watch a cat hunt.
> 
> Regards
> Rusty



Truer words have never been spoken. 8)


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## rmi2416 (May 11, 2011)

So far from what I can see since I am refining in any way the recyclable material I am exempt also since I am re selling my scrap to a smelter or refiner means I am associated with one I am exempt. Also since I provide the service free I am exempt according to http://www.tceq.texas.gov/assets/public/permitting/forms/20049.pdf. Also according to my research Under 30 TAC §330.11(e) Exit TCEQ, a facility that is used as a collection and processing point for only nonputrescible source-separated recyclable material is exempt from municipal solid waste permitting and registration requirements. Facilities that are owned or operated by a government or government agency or which meet the terms of certain exclusions in 30 TAC §328.4(a) Exit TCEQ and §328.5(a) Exit TCEQ are also is exempt from municipal solid waste permitting and registration requirements. All recycling facilities, including exempt facilities must comply with the general requirements. The only thing I have to abide by is Storage

*

Rule regarding limitations on storage of recyclable materials – 30 TAC §328.4 Exit TCEQ

Highlights of the rule:

* Only source separated, non-putrescible recyclable materials may be accumulated or stored
* Incoming material being processed or sorted into marketable fractions must be shipped out on a schedule that prevents accumulation on site over an extended period of time
* Nonrecyclable and nonmarketable materials must be disposed of properly
* 25 percent of materials accumulated or stored 90 days from commencement of facility operation must be recycled or transferred to a different site for recycling, within 270 days from commencement of operation
* During any subsequent six-month period, at least 50 percent of materials accumulated or stored within that period must have been recycled or transferred to a different site for recycling 

So I think I am ok since I have no more than 300LBs on site and I am moving aprox 75 LBS per week. Does this sound right, I guess Texas must be trying to get more recycling going. Why its so lax on the laws and regulations here. If anyone interprets this differently please feel free to let me know.

Regards,
Ross


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## chefjosh77 (May 11, 2011)

You could try working another angle. instead of using the word recycle, you could offer to re purpose old electronics and have a free or paid pickup service. 

The city garbage company says to not dispose of e-scrap in the garbage cans they provide. They need to be taken to an authorized recycler. You could provide a courtesy service to people by collecting their e-scrap and delivering it for them. If you clip a few fingers or harvest a few hard drives in the process, then so what.

When I was at my computer store, we would offer to accept escrap. I charged 3 bucks for crt monitor 2 bucks for printer everything else was free to take in. If they had service done at my store then I would waive the fee. Also if they didn't want to pay I would waive it. Most people were glad to be rid of their old junk systems. The working stuff (monitors and accessories) We donated to a local place that gave computers to people who couldn't afford them. I gave the printers away to a recycler for free(i couldn't handle printers because of the sheer volume of plastics they produced in recycling)

Point is. You can offer a needed service to the community by handling their e-waste and making sure it gets to where it needs to go. Even If that happens to be your scrap heap. I doubt any recycler will come after you if you word your ad like that. 

I don't advertise that I pay for scrap. If I do get a client that does have significant volume, then I'll give them enough cash to have them call me again. You can disappoint your Craigslist responders if they think their old computer is worth more than a few bucks. Save them the insult. The same people will thank you for taking it out of their way for free. 

Its late so if this post is incoherent or redundant please forgive.


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## dtectr (May 11, 2011)

good advice, chefjosh77.
I take my cordless drill & screwdriver with me, remove the hard drives & hand it to the individual. What's more secure than that?
Also, terminology is VERY important, also where you advertise, & how you do your books.

Rusty also knows what of he speaks.

*For the legitimate large scale scrappers on this forum, what follows does not necessarily apply to you. The way you go about your business determines that.*


That being said: 


In my opinion - these "good ol' boy" locker room mentalities that define most small town governments protect - guess who? Their old frat buddy, or the guy who is established in business - he pays for advertising, a license, property taxes, sends a sack of beans to the food bank once a year then calls for a press conference to do it, etc..

You see where I'm going with this - unless you're also in this inside group, they are in a position to cause you more trouble than you are them.
I'll tell you, this is some insecure "businessman" if he thinks that hobbyists like us are a threat to him, unless he has his own deals going on in the corner, of course. And he probably does.

On the other hand, Craigs List has strict guidelines that prohibit harassment & contact for other than commercial purposes. Personally, I have yet to receive _any_ e-scrap from Craig's List or Ebay Classifieds, as kijiji is known in the states& barely more than that from freecycle.

Take time to develop personal sources when you can - these are almost always the most productive, anyway.

FWIW

EDIT: for clarity


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## rmi2416 (May 11, 2011)

I actually called one the recycling companies that was giving me some flack and actually worked out a deal to pass on some of my not so marketable items at low quantities with free pick-up from them. The guy said it's not that they want to discourage me from recycling or free enterprising, but sometimes there tone tends to paint a different picture as I am doing something wrong and they are gonna get you. He said they hope my free enterprising turns into a thriving business and as my venture grows they want to help so we can grow togather. Right now I really don't have a good outlet to get rid of all the computer cases and power supplies and the hard drives after I remove the PCBS. So far it cost more to deal with hard drives then to just pass them on to a big boy for some change on the pound. Thanks for all the help it defiantly shines some light on the possible foes out there. I do however feel that indeed this is simply some way for the cat to corner the mouse.

Regards,
Ross


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## joem (May 11, 2011)

rmi2416 said:


> I actually called one the recycling companies that was giving me some flack and actually worked out a deal to pass on some of my not so marketable items at low quantities with free pick-up from them. The guy said it's not that they want to discourage me from recycling or free enterprising, but sometimes there tone tends to paint a different picture as I am doing something wrong and they are gonna get you. He said they hope my free enterprising turns into a thriving business and as my venture grows they want to help so we can grow togather. Right now I really don't have a good outlet to get rid of all the computer cases and power supplies and the hard drives after I remove the PCBS. So far it cost more to deal with hard drives then to just pass them on to a big boy for some change on the pound. Thanks for all the help it defiantly shines some light on the possible foes out there. I do however feel that indeed this is simply some way for the cat to corner the mouse.
> 
> Regards,
> Ross


Good to see things turned out for the better. If you need some flyers and business cards just let me know I'll put something together for you for free


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## rmi2416 (May 11, 2011)

hey thanks joem once I come up with how I want to take on the next level and market my services I will send you a PM. Also thanks for all the replies and insight made think more in a big picture sense.

Regards,
Ross


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## nickvc (May 12, 2011)

Ross
Another thought for you, I assume you intend to refine the values yourself and get your own buttons. If this is the case a visit to your larger competitors with your buttons may well be worth the effort, the sight and feel of gold is sure to spike their interest, who wouldn't like their own little stash of gold?
If you can prove what you can achieve you could get a deal to refine for them 8)


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## silversaddle1 (May 12, 2011)

rusty said:


> The commercial guy buys an annual business license, has several employees, pays into compensation, pension plans, medical, rent and tax's on commercially zoned land not to mention investment, while you get a free lunch.
> 
> *SO what? Since when is it a bad thing to start up and run your own small business in America? Business license?? NO. And how do you know he don't pay taxes? Free lunch, no free enterprise*.
> 
> ...


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## rusty (May 12, 2011)

silversaddle1 said:


> rusty said:
> 
> 
> > The commercial guy buys an annual business license, has several employees, pays into compensation, pension plans, medical, rent and tax's on commercially zoned land not to mention investment, while you get a free lunch.
> ...




I envy your freedom living in Iowa, here I Canada I can not even park my 18 wheeler on the street in front of my house, cant raise chickens or turkeys in my garage to sell my neighbors, if I curb more than 2 cars a year from my lot a bylaw inspector comes out and writes me up.

It gets worse, my brother has a portable welding rig mounted on a truck, one evening he did a small welding job for a friend in his driveway and got a ticket for it,

Another brother trying to make an extra buck was doing appliance repairs and selling these from his garage on a city lot, he got away with it for about a year before a bylaw inspector came out with a cease and desist order.

Hell if I cut my lawn before I go to work in the morning 7 am or later than 8 pm the neighbors sic the law onto me. It is very embarrassing when they come to your work place to write you up on a noise infraction.

I envy your freedom in Iowa.

We do have what is classified as Cottage Industry that are permitted to be run from home, so were not completely hog tied here in CANADA.

Regards
Rusty


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## silversaddle1 (May 12, 2011)

Rusty,

I do feel sorry for you and the oppressive government you have to live under. I could not do live like that. Sorry if I sounded a little harsh in my post, I did not know you are up in the Great White North.


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## Claudie (May 12, 2011)

Now that confused me. I live in Iowa. We are not allowed to remove even a gum wrapper from the local landfill. All trash has to be separated for pickup. It has to be in bags, only two per week or there are extra charges. You are required to have a business license for a business or face fines. If you mow your lawn and get grass clippings on the street, you face hefty fines for it. If your grass gets over 6 inches in height, the city will come mow it for you and charge a ridiculous fee. You cannot raise animals in your garage, or yard. If you have a car parked in your drive that doesn't have a current registration, it can be towed away and you will be fined. You cannot have anything in your yard other than something "pretty" or you could be fined. The fees & taxes for small businesses have quadrupled in some cases in just the last couple of years. It sure doesn't seem like a small business friendly state. I have never thought of Canada as having an oppressive government. I think there are rules/laws everywhere these days. Sometimes it seems like it's hard to get out of bed without breaking at least a few of them.


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## silversaddle1 (May 12, 2011)

Our local county landfill is the same way, however, I have been told by the board that if I get certifide with the state DNR for recycling, I can bid on the removal of recyclables from the landfill. Not interested. As far as a business license in Iowa, all I can say is I have ran this recycling business for 21 years now and have never had issues with any state or local government, no license. I do pay taxes on the business every quarter, maybe that's my "license". :shock: 

And I should state that I live on 10 acres out in the country. I keep the place clean, in fact, if you drive by you would think it's only a horse farm. But everybody within 10 miles of us knows what we do here and give me computers all the time.


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## rusty (May 12, 2011)

silversaddle1 said:


> I do pay taxes on the business every quarter, maybe that's my "license". :shock:
> 
> I'll be there is not more than a handful of people on this forum that are in the same tax bracket as you are paying quarterly, most file yearly.
> 
> ...



Best Regards
Rusty


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## Claudie (May 12, 2011)

Last year the fee for a contractor license in Iowa went from $25.00 every two years, to $50.00 every year. That is four times what it was. I would think there would be some sort of permits, commercial land taxes, or some other fees the state has came up with for dealing with scrap businesses also. Not that I agree with all of the fees and permits, I just know Iowa. After all, this is the state that said it would make money by raising the cigarette tax and then made it illegal to smoke. Many things here don't make sense to me. :|


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## silversaddle1 (May 12, 2011)

Well here's a hoot.



> I'll be there is not more than a handful of people on this forum that are in the same tax bracket as you are paying quarterly, most file yearly.


*Really?? What do you know about the US tax code? Most self employeed people people I know pay quarterly, including me.
*


> I would bet a weeks wages that you come from old money and never had to forage in the real world to make a buck. Self made men speak a different language.


*Well just go ahead and send Steve your next check as a donation to the forum because I come from NO money. My wife and I started this business with a hammer, three screwdrivers, and a pawn shop sawzall. We had nothing but bills and debt the first two years we were married. Yeah, old money. That's a hoot. 
*
*As for the county worried about what we do here, nope. We can still make a living off our land here in the USA. Farmers do it all the time.
*
*Yes we do put the word out on the "streets". Dropping business cards everywhere, CL ads, posters, e-scrap collection drives, etc. So again you are wrong and know nothing about me or my business. *

*As for the stallion thing, if by chance my $50,000.00 stallion did get out and breed any of my neighbors crappy mares, it would be a gift to them, not a burden on me. Again, you know nothing about me or my champion horse heard.
*
How 'bout this, just stick to whatever it is you do know and comment on that.


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## silversaddle1 (May 12, 2011)

Claudie said:


> Last year the fee for a contractor license in Iowa went from $25.00 every two years, to $50.00 every year. That is four times what it was. I would think there would be some sort of permits, commercial land taxes, or some other fees the state has came up with for dealing with scrap businesses also. Not that I agree with all of the fees and permits, I just know Iowa. After all, this is the state that said it would make money by raising the cigarette tax and then made it illegal to smoke. Many things here don't make sense to me. :|



Where are you located? I'm over by Omaha, Nebraska.

I'm wondering about the contractor license thing. We have done railroad contracting for many years as well and have never had to have any type of license for that. Could it be needed just if you work in the public sector like housing, etc.?


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## rusty (May 12, 2011)

silversaddle1 said:


> Well here's a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would be the first to admit I know nothing about American Tax Law, however I would think any sensible man would register his business to gain on taxable deductions, proprietorships have their limitations.

To set the record straight,,, Steve does not own GRF, a young French Canadian we all know as Noxx owns it.

Here in Canada 10 acres would be considered Rural Residential or a Hobby Farm, certainly not enough land to glean a living from. The roots of farming has changed hands from the mom and pop operations into large corporations who control thousands of acres to turn a profit.

It's good to hear that you got your moneys worth from that Pawn Shop Sawsall.

You seem to put yourself above that of your neighbors, your breeding is showing. I'm sure that they think the world of their crappy mares.

I likewise do not come from old money, I married into it.

Best Regards
Rusty


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## Claudie (May 12, 2011)

If you are a contractor in Iowa, you need to be registered. I personally don't care if you are or not, like I said there many laws/rules here. Many of the laws have changed in the last 2-3 years. It's hard to keep up with them at times. 
I started out with no money, married a poor woman & 25 years later I'm still broke.... :|


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## dtectr (May 12, 2011)

Hey guys, let's take a break, huh?

This fee/license/restrictions/taxes/ game that ALL governments play with the class of people that built both our countries - namely, hard-working, boot-strap folks - gets my blood pressure up whenever I have to deal with it. I've had to take 3 days out of prime gardening time to do the BS "beautiful city" thing. Since we eat off our organic garden as well as barter its produce, this could be critical to our dinner table this winter. 

I think you guys may be experiencing that a little, too. I agree with both perspectives, when viewed from those perspectives

When I had either of my businesses, as a *true* small business, me, my truck & my dog when I started 8) (US defines "small business" as 350 employees or less, I think. Could be wrong - its been a while since I checked), the hoops I had to jump through bordered on legalized extortion - "You pay us, or you don't work", kind of thing.

What I do agree with, especially, was the earlier comment about inviting the fox into the henhouse - If they want to report you, even if its trumped up, you've basically explained your whole layout to them. I stand by my earlier observation, that a large recycler/scrapper/hell, ANYBODY chickensh** enough to harass you based on a Craig's list free ad is insecure, unprofessional & not to be trusted.

I would watch your back. As the oldtime cowhands used to say, "Trust in G*d but tie up your horse."


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## Claudie (May 12, 2011)

silversaddle1 said:


> Where are you located? I'm over by Omaha, Nebraska.



I'm about 200-300 miles away in South Central Iowa.


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## texan (May 18, 2011)

I tell anyone that asks that it is just one of my several hobbies...I make no pretense that I am in business to recycle ecrap...and make as little noise about PM's as possible. I have collected about half a garage full of high quality stuff that will probably take me a couple of years to process when I retire from my day job...and I keep being given stuff all the time. I had one guy tell me he had seen a story on TV that computers had gold in them and suggested I find out about it...he had just sold me 2 pre 1995 'puters that had ceramic/gold heat sink CPU's in them for 5.00 bucks...I thanked him for the info and told him I would look into the gold situation. Someone had left them in a rent house he had and they had been in his barn for years.

Texan


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## glorycloud (May 18, 2011)

I have a 501-C3 non-profit and I receive donated computer equipment with the idea or "re-purposing" it first to help low income families. What can't be re-purposed gets resold for parts or ultimately recycled to help cover the
costs of what I do. 

Most companies, groups and individuals like to help out this way. I wipe
their drives for free, pick up what they will donate for free and let them 
write off what they can as a charitable contribution.

Since I am receiving donated computers and recycling, no one seems
to mind the "competition" from me. 8)


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## rmi2416 (May 19, 2011)

you guys are the best. Rusty I feel for you man, that is harsh. I think they realized im a small pea in a very big pot of beans and have not really bothered me since. In a bit of irony I am actually a product of there greed I guess you could say. I work for a rather small but globally know industrial keyboard maker. We use a lot of high grade material in our PCB's as far as PMs Gold traces for each button contacts and gold grounding plains to meet 461 mill specs. Being a mid supervisor role I watched and scheduled the pick up of our beat up old boards from the field. I was kinda interested in this then but when I saw the low price of what they where giving us per pound for hundreds of pounds I soon realized that Electronic recycling is a very non-competitive market based carbon reducing solution or at least it is sold that way so you think they are doing you a favor for even paying for it. Pretty much they will not quote you up front. They take about a month before they even give you a report and then another month before you get you net 30 PO by that time the price is locked and the scrap has been out of pocket for 2 months and who only knows where it is by then. So even if you know you getting shorted you can't really dispute it. In my research I learned that If you bringing in less then like 200 Lbs of electronic scrap they wont even pay nor will they provide pick up. It got me thinking of all the small guys out there 10-200lbs monthly electronic scrap build up that have limited space and need a better option. So I guess for starting up I am trying to cater to those guys first until I get a good revenue stream going. I hit craigslist really hard and got a lot of good responses. But I actually advertised that I would pay even for 1 pound and pick it up if it was in my parameters of what I can relocate. So looking at it in there eyes they saw a free market that was increasing there income without effecting overhead or bottom line, and I was cutting out from under them and not much they can really do about it. If i was a multi-million dollar company and saw that, I would send a few emails to enquirer and try to lay claim to it. So all in all they are teaching me more than they are scaring me.

Regards,
Ross


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