# cobalt-tin?



## cloomis (Nov 19, 2008)

So im working with these bits that are for shaving stainless steel and they say that the meterial is colbalt-tin ,is there any value or uses for this type of metal? 
just asking because we go threw around 400 a week.


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## Harold_V (Nov 19, 2008)

Please check the material to clarify that it is, indeed, cobalt-tin. It is common to see TiN (titanium nitride) coating on cutting tools. It has nothing to do with tin-----it is a surface hardening process. The material may well have value, but you need to know more about what it is. If it is what I suspect it is, it is commonly known as cobalt high speed steel (HSS). It has salvage value, but you won't get rich.

Harold


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## cloomis (Nov 19, 2008)

Thanks harold i did some research and your on the money,it sucks because we do use alot


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## Harold_V (Nov 20, 2008)

That being the case, save it up until you have a substantial amount and haul it to a scrap yard. Better than nothing, and could yield a pleasant surprise, if not a retirement! :wink: 

Harold


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## Oz (Nov 20, 2008)

Harold,

Being a machinist you know more about metallurgy than I do. Does all HSS contain cobalt? I have boxes of the stuff I grind as needed for lathe jobs but always thought of it as simple high carbon steel.


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## Harold_V (Nov 20, 2008)

No, all HSS does not contain cobalt, but that which does will generally specify it as such. It is common to see it as 5% or 10% cobalt, or some such. Cobalt gives machine cutters greater ability to resist heat, allowing for higher temperatures at the point of the cut without losing hardness. Taken to the extreme, Haynes Stellite has greater edge strength at red heat than it does at ambient temperature. Were it not for the advent of tungsten carbide, we'd be using it routinely today. It was wonderful stuff. 

Do not confuse HSS with high carbon steel. They are not one and the same. High speed steel will withstand high temperatures with little effect. You can silver solder a piece of HSS to a shank with no loss of hardness, very unlike carbon steel. High speed steel is difficult to anneal, having to be heated to a specific temperature, than cooled slowly, something like only 40° F per hour down to a given critical temperature. I am not a metallurgist, and do not understand it in a scientific way, just from practical experience. Cutting tools that are marked HSS are not carbon steel, which fails as it nears a blue heat. HSS does not. Carbon steel is virtually unheard of as a cutting tool anymore. It is, however, quite popular with the home shop types---much to my chagrin. It is often difficult to make them understand it has serious shortcomings. 

Harold

edit: corrected typo


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## Rag and Bone (Nov 20, 2008)

There's a whole lot of poor bastards in the Congo who would die for a good source of tin!


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## Oz (Nov 20, 2008)

I will not confuse the 2 but I never had a reason to give it thought until this thread. I have a lifetime supply off HSS and grew up with a lathe in the basement, the question was more about the element possibilities alloyed as a HSS steel. I am well aware of the limits of high carbon steel with heat from forging my own carpentry tools and should have thought before typing. As to my intent, you have answered, HSS is not all the same. Thanks!


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## scrapman1077 (Nov 20, 2008)

cloomis, Talk with Beth Alexander here http://www.carbiderecycling.com/metalrecycling.html


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## cloomis (Nov 22, 2008)

sweet i will and thanks to all the great posts i cant wait till the next trip to the metal salvage yard we have around 4 ton of t6 alluminum and the bits and blades are adding up quick .We started making firearms for bushmaster and if colt dose not get there goverment contract renewed we will E.M.M percisions inc East Conway NH, this wil mean alot of metal return $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## cloomis (Nov 22, 2008)

scrapman it would be nice to deal with them but im on the east coast thanks though.


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## scrapman1077 (Nov 22, 2008)

Talk to her, on 1000 lbs loads of carbide, they pay the shipping ! Save it up till you have a large qty then call.


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## Harold_V (Nov 22, 2008)

cloomis said:


> sweet i will and thanks to all the great posts i cant wait till the next trip to the metal salvage yard we have around 4 ton of t6 alluminum


T6 is not a grade, it's a (heat treat, or artificially aged) condition. Certain grades of aluminum may be worth more than others, so if you can identify which grade you have, all the better. Considering you're talking about a T condition, you should look for numbers like 2011, 6061, or 7075. 2024 is also a heat-treatable grade, but is generally a T351 or a T4 condition. I am not aware of any 2024-T6. Aluminum is generally well marked on the surface, so look for mill markings (ink) that may describe exactly what you have. If, by chance, you can access small lengths of stock (anything greater than a couple inches should sell), remember, it likely has greater value by far than scrap. You can sell it on ebay easily----or even on machining sites on the net. Home machinists are always on the lookout for material. 

In spite of what I've said, even with the recent decline in the scrap market, scrap aluminum is very desirable. Damned shame you didn't do something with it when the price was high. 



> and the bits and blades are adding up quick.



That's the spirit! 

From your comments, I can't help but wonder if some of the discarded tooling isn't tungsten carbide? If so, it, too, has salvage value. Considering it's about as heavy as gold, it doesn't take much to make a pound, and it has been known to sell for more than $7/lb. I have never sold any, and I don't have a clue where the market is today, but it's always worth money. 

If you play it cool, keep a low profile so you don't alert your workmates (so they compete with you, or screw it up for you so you can't get your hands on the waste materials), you can make a tidy sum with this stuff. There's a lot of money that can be made in the salvage business. 

Harold


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