# HELP PLEASE!



## kic209 (Jan 29, 2010)

Could somebody please help me on the correct and most efficient way to extract gold from Sulfuric Acid?


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Jan 29, 2010)

kic209:
Sulphuric acid does not dissolve gold so there is no way to extract gold from sulphuric acid.

Anyway,you can separate gold fron other metals with sulphuric acid,e.g. an alloy of silver and gold could be separate using hot concentrated sulphuric acid because it dissolves silver then gold remains.

As you can see in this Forum,nitric acid is prefered to do this kind of job.There is a cell that uses sulphuric acid to recover gold from gold plated items.Can you tell us what exactly are you trying to do?

Best regards.

Manuel


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## kic209 (Jan 29, 2010)

I extracted the plated gold from CPU parts using stainless as a cathode and the CPU parts as the anode, in sulphuric acid. Which when put a current to the sulphuric becomes persulphuric which I think gold is solutuable in. Ive exctracted the gold from the CPU parts and have a goldish sulphuric solution now.


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## kic209 (Jan 29, 2010)

But I think Im missing something or dont have my formulas correct.


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 29, 2010)

There will be zero gold dissolved in the sulfuric acid. All the gold will be a powder floating around or settled on the bottom. The gold only dissolves for about a micro-second. It is then immediately reduced to a powder. Don't worry about the chemistry of this - I don't think anyone really knows if that's exactly what happens, anyhow. Just be concerned with the results.


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## jimdoc (Jan 29, 2010)

kic209,
Easiest way to see what to do would be watch Lazer Steve's video on the sulphuric cell. Seeing is better than reading.
In the cell the gold doesn't go into solution. It is filtered out of the solution as a fine black looking powder. Watch the video and see if that doesn't clear up your question.
Here is a link to his site if you need it;

http://www.goldrecovery.us/

Also how many CPUs did you do? 

Jim


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## kic209 (Jan 29, 2010)

Im sure the gold has dissolved off the CPUs cause you can see where it has just left the copper and my once clear solution is now gold in color. I tried filtering it through coffee filters and then letting the coffee filters dry and i have a black tar looking substance? This process is kinda new for me so thank you for the help so far.


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## jimdoc (Jan 29, 2010)

Can you post any pictures? I don't know why the acid would look gold in color. Mine has always got very dark.


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 29, 2010)

> Im sure the gold has dissolved off the CPUs cause you can see where it has just left the copper and my once clear solution is now gold in color. I tried filtering it through coffee filters and then letting the coffee filters dry and i have a black tar looking substance? This process is kinda new for me so thank you for the help so far.


Unless you have some chlorides or other halides in there, no gold will be dissolved in the sulfuric, period - no argument. The black "tar", or slime, is the gold and, probably, other solids mixed in. It's actually a very fine powder. That's why it looks black to your eyes. Often, once all the black gold slime is removed or settled, the solution will take on an amber color, but not because it contains gold.

I'm curious about the filtering. What strength sulfuric did you start with? If you try to filter strong sulfuric, it will immediately eat the filter paper. I have to assume you diluted the sulfuric considerably before filtering, yet you didn't mention that. If you didn't have to dilute it, that means your sulfuric was way too weak to start with. Did you dilute it?


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## lazersteve (Jan 29, 2010)

Check out this post:

Black Powder from Cell

Steve


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## 2002valkyrie (Jan 30, 2010)

Hey Steve,
I just finnished my tumbler yesterday. I loaded it with 4 pounds of military grade pins from a tank line. After 4 hours my lead cathode is covered with tan to light brown silt. I cleaned some off an it goes back to working just fine but when it builds up again it slows terribly. Is this normal?


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## lazersteve (Jan 30, 2010)

I've seen that before and think it is a base metal compound or one of the additives in some of the drain opener acids (if you are not using boiled down battery acid), but I can't be sure. 

When it happens to me it's usually the first time I use a new cathode. 

After cleaning the cathode one time it doesn't reoccur to me.

Steve


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## 2002valkyrie (Jan 31, 2010)

Is there any particular method of cleaning I should use? Stainless brush, tooth brush, or just keep scraping it on the tumbler basket?


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## lazersteve (Jan 31, 2010)

I spray mine off into a separate container and wipe the excess water off of the cathode before putting it back in the acid.

Steve


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## kic209 (Feb 2, 2010)

Well I think that Ive sucessfully finished the 1st stage. I was able to achieve a pretty "clean" pull of the just the gold from CPU parts. There of course prolly some impurities but point being my technique worked. (I have a couple of pictures but dont know how to post them on here). So basically I think what I have is a solution of gold (un-plated from CPU parts) and sulfuric acid. Have a couple of ideas how to seperate the gold from the sulfuric but not sure which one would be the easiest to try. Little new at the gold stuff, but really starting to take a liking to it...THanks before for any advice, from what I keep reading on here you guys really know you stuff...


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## Palladium (Feb 2, 2010)

Did you watch any of steve's video's ? You don't have to seperate the gold from the sulfuric acid because it is in the bottom of the vessel. It's that gray black powder that's a pain in the ass to filter. If you watch the vid's on Steve's site it will answer all you questions. Sounds like your getting there though. 8)


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## kic209 (Feb 2, 2010)

Thats the thing though, there isnt any black powder stuff at the bottom. Take a look a the pictures and tell me what you think


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## kic209 (Feb 2, 2010)

Here is another angle...any suggestions on the next step? WHat about something like the Wohlwill Process?


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## Harold_V (Feb 2, 2010)

There is something important for you to understand. Please take this in the spirit in which it is offered. 

It is not possible for gold to be in solution in sulfuric acid. Even in a stripping cell, the only reason gold dissolves is because the current in the near proximity of the anode converts the sulfuric acid to persulfuric acid, which can dissolve gold. As the dissolved gold migrates away from the anode (the part being stripped), the persulfuric acid reverts back to sulfuric acid, precipitating any gold that is held in solution. Therefore, you can expect to recover nothing from the solution aside from solid particulate matter. 

There may be a slight chance that you have enough nitrates and chlorides present to dissolve some gold, but if you do have some in solution, a test with stannous chloride would be conclusive. Judging by the color of the solution shown in your pictures, even if that were the case, if you had more than a couple grains, I'd be surprised. 

Your next move is to strip more gold, not to keep trying to recover something that doesn't exist. 

Harold


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## kic209 (Feb 2, 2010)

Sir I am quite aware of the sulfuric and persulfuric acid concept, obvioulsy I had to get passed that equation in my formula to end up and this point in the first place. So if you intent is to lecture you prolly shouldnt waste your time. Now if you possibly feel like maybe offering a solution or an idea, now that would be jus great. And I can pretty much gurantee I have more that just a couple of grains. But thanks for the assement.

It should be noted that smart responses like this generally result in the reader being ignored by everyone. You came here seeking knowledge, but it's obvious that what you are looking for is validation of a stupid concept. That isn't going to happen. Not now, not tomorrow. You may have burned your bridges with your smarter than thou attitude. 

Harold


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## glorycloud (Feb 2, 2010)

If you allow him to be, Harold is quite the mentor to us all.
Lay down your pride and receive what is freely offered here
or get your feathers all ruffled and keep the "I'm getting lectured"
attitude which will get you nowhere here. :shock:


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## goldsilverpro (Feb 2, 2010)

Believe it or not, Harold and the rest of us are trying to help. You just are so convinced that there's gold dissolved in that solution, you won't listen. So far, everyone has told you the same thing, that that is impossible. Everyone knows that to be true because we all have experience with using a sulfuric stripper.

Looking at the pics, I see no gold in that solution and, if it's truly a sulfuric stripping solution, you would be able to see the black gold. There will be zero gold in a clear sulfuric solution, no matter what color it is. That's just the way it is. No Black - No Gold! You say you have more than a couple of grains of gold. If so, what did you do with it? It's certainly not in that solution. Once you accept that, you can go forward.

I asked some questions before but got no answers from you. You said earlier that you filtered some solution with coffee filters and got a tar like material from it. If you truly are using sulfuric of from, say, 90% to 96% strength, it would be impossible to filter undiluted sulfuric without burning the filter paper. When you do this, the paper immediately falls apart and chars and you see a gummy black tar-like substance, which is carbon. Tell us how you made up the solution. Where did you get the sulfuric and how do you know it was of the proper strength?

In your mind, what exactly is a Wohlwill process?

Earlier in this thread, lazersteve gave you a link with some photos of it. Did you look at the first two photos in that thread. See the black. That's gold. See Spot run and jump. If there's gold in your solution, why doesn't it look like those photos? Here's the link again. Look at the first 2 photos.
Black Powder from Cell


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## 2002valkyrie (Feb 2, 2010)

Kic,
I'll not lecture you but only tell you this; I joined this forum Oct. 2009 so I am a noob. I had my first blunder in that month, I stopped what I was doing and in my mind gave up, posted so in the forum. In doing so found that the people here would have no part of me being a failure. We went into private mode and I became a student and my soon to be friend became my teacher. I would tell him every single thing I did to get where I was at and he came up with a plan to fix it. Every day we sent emails back and forth, him telling me step by step what needed to be done, me telling him what the results were. In the end I came out smelling like a rose... With a great friend, mentor, pure gold and a new understanding of this world of gold... None of this could have happened if I had not humbled myself first. So my advise is... First: Admit to yourself you don't know as much as you thought you did or you would have your gold in your hands. Second: Read some more of this forum so you can find a member that you believe in. Third and finaly: Ask that person to walk you through your steps in private. So that you can avoid comming off as a know-nothing know-it-all who should not comment toward great people as if you know-no better. This is a great forum I look forward to you becoming a contributing member. 

p.s. Here is proof I know more now: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=6152


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## jimdoc (Feb 2, 2010)

I would like to know how many, and what type CPUs you have done in that solution. And how much gold you are expecting from the amount of CPUs.
Jim


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## Harold_V (Feb 2, 2010)

kic209 said:


> Sir I am quite aware of the sulfuric and persulfuric acid concept, obvioulsy I had to get passed that equation in my formula to end up and this point in the first place. So if you intent is to lecture you prolly shouldnt waste your time. Now if you possibly feel like maybe offering a solution or an idea, now that would be jus great. And I can pretty much gurantee I have more that just a couple of grains. But thanks for the assement.


Sure. No problem.

It's clear that you know way too much to have me be of benefit. I'll ignore any of your questions in the future, in the hopes I don't dumb down all of your superior knowledge. 

What I find funny is that in all your wisdom, you can't grasp the most simple of concepts, and insist on chasing your tail. To that, all I can say is, "happy hunting". 

Harold


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## Juan Manuel Arcos Frank (Feb 4, 2010)

kic209:

Three men,with a huge experience in gold recovery and refining have told you that the sulphuric acid did not dissolve gold.You must belive them,Why?,here is the answer:

LazerSteve,the Gratest of this Forum,has posted all the information about the Sulphuric Cell Process for Gold,whatever Steve says is "MAGISTER DIXIE"(told by the teacher) and needs no prove.

Harold_V,a man who in my opinion is a Genius,has told you the truth about persulphuric acid and gold.Harold_V has devoted much of his life to refine gold,before you were born he was already working with this process.

GSP,a man who worths his weight in gold because his willingness to share his great lifetime hands on experience in precious metal recover/recycle,GSP has told you that sulphuric acid did not dissolve gold because he has checked this process many years ago.

You can disagree with these nice getlemen but then you have to prove your hypothesis.In this Forum we have an open mind for new processes then open your own mind to those processes that have proven to work well and have been developed by LazerSteve,Harold_V and GSP.

Best regards.

Manuel


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## Platdigger (Feb 4, 2010)

Could it be kic209, that what you used was mostly water, with just a bit of sulfuric?


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## Palladium (Feb 4, 2010)

He said he was using stainless steel for a cathode. Do you reckon he used diluted sulfuric and the gold color he's seeing is what iron that has dissolved in solution? That would explain how he filtered it.


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## kic209 (Feb 5, 2010)

Good Morning everybody. I want to start off this post apologizing to Harold V for me snapping back at him when indeed all he was trying to do is educate me. So Harold I am truly sorry if you were offended. And the same goes to everybody else if I happen to do so because that definatly was not my intent.


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## kic209 (Feb 12, 2010)

Sir I am quite aware of the sulfuric and persulfuric acid concept, obvioulsy I had to get passed that equation in my formula to end up and this point in the first place. So if you intent is to lecture you prolly shouldnt waste your time. Now if you possibly feel like maybe offering a solution or an idea, now that would be jus great. And I can pretty much gurantee I have more that just a couple of grains. But thanks for the assement.



It should be noted that smart responses like this generally result in the reader being ignored by everyone. You came here seeking knowledge, but it's obvious that what you are looking for is validation of a stupid concept. That isn't going to happen. Not now, not tomorrow. You may have burned your bridges with your smarter than thou attitude. 
Harold

Now is this the example you would like to set for other newbies who are interested in the art of refining. Harold I took personal offense to your response, whenall I was asking was a question. I didnt understand what you guys were "techinaly" saying. I understand that now. But isnt that what this forum is for? All I requested was not a lecture but maybe offer some sort of solution or different approach. You chose to insult me. Its a good thing that I believed in my "stupid" conept because your comment pretty much crushed my confidence. I even apologized for offending Harold and everybody else if I had done so. Harold you chose not to acknowldge it. Now I wont go into a little chat room pissing match between to grown adullts. I will say this, Harold the next time you think about refering to my "concept" as stupid, I would invite you to come on over to California and let me know that in person. I'm pretty sure this stupid concept of mine actually just might work. I went back and tried a different approach and eventually figured it out. So on that note, Harold I offer you a truce and a handshake, I am sure you are quite knowledgable in this field and I could learn alot. Your a grown man I will leave the decsion up to you, but if you choose not to accept this then I gladly will burn my own part of the "bridge". With that I will end. Hope everybody has a good night.


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## Harold_V (Feb 12, 2010)

kic209 said:


> Sir I am quite aware of the sulfuric and persulfuric acid concept, obvioulsy I had to get passed that equation in my formula to end up and this point in the first place. So if you intent is to lecture you prolly shouldnt waste your time. Now if you possibly feel like maybe offering a solution or an idea, now that would be jus great. And I can pretty much gurantee I have more that just a couple of grains. But thanks for the assement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, it indeed _*is*_ the example I'd like to set for newbies. As you progress, you will come to understand why. 



> Harold I took personal offense to your response, whenall I was asking was a question. I didnt understand what you guys were "techinaly" saying. I understand that now. But isnt that what this forum is for?


So we are on the same page, my rebuttal to that is that you were not asking a question, you were looking for someone to validate what was a bad idea. It still is. You wanted someone to tell you how to recover gold from a sulfuric acid solution. I can't do that, nor can anyone else, because anyone that understands the nature of sulfuric acid and its interaction with gold will tell you, just like they have told you time and again, that sulfuric acid in and of itself will not put gold in solution. It simply can't do that. That was explained to you by every member of this board that has experience with stripping cells, as well as by me, in spite of my not having operated a sulfuric cell. I was wise enough to read the basis of operation and to understand what transpired. I was trying to convey that information to you----but you were looking for someone to validate your idea. 

You were not interested then, nor are you now, in the truth, so I see no point in furthering this conversation with you. I will suggest to you that you lose your attitude and start behaving as if you have interest in learning to refine. I will warn you no further. I will ban you if you persist. We, as a group, do not allow bickering on this forum, nor do we welcome those that have an attitude. 

Please do rememeber that it was you that displayed rudeness, not me. You set the ground rules, I was simply playing the game you preferred. Most people don't like that, just as you don't like it when it's used against you. You might keep that in mind the next time you go begging for help. 

Harold


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## kic209 (Feb 12, 2010)

Wow I can honestly say I didnt think you would put that much effort into a rebuttle to fuel this ego trip you are on sir. And yes I do understand that gold is *not* solutable in sulfuric acid. That is why you must put voltage to make it persulfuric. Correct? Lets make it clear that I understand that. And actually sir there is a way to extract the gold, you dilude it.... basically. Eventually you will end up with just water and the gold will have droped to the bottom if I my memory serves me. Seriously now, all I did Harold was asked you that pretty much if you are going to put sum effort into writing a response that maybe yo could not to lecture me but possibly offer an idea or solution and you personally insulted me by calling my concept stupid. And please dont flatter yourself thinking that I came to you "begging" for help. You chose to repsond to "my" post. You didnt respond to my post intentionaly to pick on me did you? I would hope not. 
So no I did not start this nonsense childish bicker. So if you choose to ban me over me standing up for my idea and myself then Harold by all means pull the plug but doing so you would be violating my United States Constitutional right of the 1st Amendment, Freedom of Speech. But the more I think about it and write this, honestly I wont lose any sleep over it. Ive wasted enough of my time responeding to your ignorant and rude rebuttles. My apologies to everyone for my immature dialect and arguing *but whats right is right and wrong is wrong*. * And Harold you were in the wrong for insulting me and continuing to insult me even after I apologized. Nothing more nothing less, Actually Harold if your behavior and insults are any indication on how this website is operated and ran, then I want no part of it. For crying out loud the websites motto "Refiners helping one another" Harold I dont think your being very helpful.

*Unfortunately, this individual lacks the ability to discern right from wrong. As a result, he has had his wish fulfilled. He has been banned from the forum for his rudeness and inability to understand the simplest of replies.

Harold


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## 2002valkyrie (Feb 12, 2010)

Lock this thread and throw away the darn key! Some people just don't listen!


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## Oz (Feb 13, 2010)

Kic209,

I am a firm believer in the first amendment, however you are trying to apply it to something it was not intended for. If you were to go into one of this countries Founding Fathers homes and insulted him within it you would most likely have been shot, and he would have been considered justified in his actions. 

Noxx owns this forum privately and has appointed several members as custodians/moderators, in short, you are in their house. The first amendment does not give anyone the right to go into another mans house and insult him or disobey the house rules. If you visit another mans house and can not abide by his rules you either have to change your behavior to accommodate him, or leave. 

You were doing fine when you posted what seemed like an earnest apology on the 5th, everyone would have been fine and helped with other questions. Perhaps you felt you were still being snubbed since there were no further replies in this thread. That was not the case I am sure, it was just that there was nothing left to say as there were no further questions asked that accompanied your apology. All was settled and fine. 

Now it is beyond me why after a week of no comments on this thread you would choose to stir up a hornets nest again taking issue with the man that you had just apologized to a week earlier. Did you not mean it? You could have simply asked a question about sulfuric stripping cells and you would have received help.

Instead of me spending time writing a post like this I could just as easily be writing to clarify for you what you are missing about sulfuric cells. I agree with Harold that the latter part of this thread is a good example to newcomers, you had attracted the attention of some of the most knowledgeable members here and chose to take issue with how they gave you the information you requested instead of learning from them. If you do not like the rules in another mans household you either choose to accommodate them, or you should leave.


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