# HOA's and Refining



## publius (Jul 16, 2012)

Well it looks like I may have to quit refining. The HOA (Reston Association) has given me 30 days to demolish my workshop that was built over 8 years ago. I can't store the chemicals in the house. Never ending saga with these fascists. *sad* :evil:


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## jeneje (Jul 16, 2012)

I would be :x Sorry to hear that.
Ken


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## BAMGOLD (Jul 16, 2012)

I've never really understood HOA, I live in a small town in Iowa, so we don't have anything like that around here...


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## Harold_V (Jul 16, 2012)

publius said:


> Well it looks like I may have to quit refining. The HOA (Reston Association) has given me 30 days to demolish my workshop that was built over 8 years ago. I can't store the chemicals in the house. Never ending saga with these fascists. *sad* :evil:


A tough lesson to learn. Why folks buy property controlled by such an entity mystifies me. They often control everything, right down to the color of paint that can be applied. 
You have my sympathy. 

We live on 5½ acres. We are so remote that it's perfectly acceptable to fire guns here, and no one complains if a guy builds a shop before building his house. In fact, that's more common than you might think. 

Harold


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## Smack (Jul 16, 2012)

There were a couple of people here that fought them on the rules, I'll double check and post my findings...if I don't forget.


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## publius (Jul 17, 2012)

Thanks Guys.

I have a hearing before a 3 member panel of the Design Review Board. Kind of feel like they want me to beg and plead with them. Maybe grovel a bit too. (not going to happen...)

Robert


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## Oz (Jul 17, 2012)

Publius,
If you have had the workshop for 8 years I would think it would be grandfathered in. Or is it what you do in your workshop that the HOA has taken issue with?


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## publius (Jul 17, 2012)

Oz said:


> Publius,
> If you have had the workshop for 8 years I would think it would be grandfathered in. Or is it what you do in your workshop that the HOA has taken issue with?



Long story-short. Bought the house 16 years ago. First time with an HOA and it had to be the first one ever! Well the house had a poorly built shed that I could not stand up in. Eight years ago, the shed collapsed in a rain storm while I was away, working. ruining $10,000 worth of bench top metal working equipment that eventually rusted into un-useable lumps.

Well, Reston's restrictive covenants demand that a damaged structure must be rebuilt as soon as practical. Well I did just that. Instead of just rebuilding it as it was (with 2x4's and not 2X2's), I changed the direction of of the roof's pitch to comply with the covenants and added 2 feet in height. I also moved away from my property line to leave 2 feet between it and the fence rather than one foot.

Well it took them more than seven and a half years to complain.

But I found an out! I can have a box that is 3X4X3 without DRB review... >..< :!: 

Robert Jeffery, CWI


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## element47.5 (Jul 17, 2012)

I sympathize with your situation. You appear to be cooperative, but I am of course only hearing your side of the story. And yet, "cooperative" isn't the ticket; it's "compliant" with their rules. I think that you need to pay attention to them, because if they wish to get nasty with you, you may get a visit from an EPA inspector and those guys are not in any sort of mood these days to forego any kind of revenue collection they might be able to squeeze out of you. In other words, they could make your life a living hell. Obviously I don't have the full picture of your situation, you seem to be perfectly reasonable and intelligent enough to weigh your possible results. I am just bringing up a worst case scenario. We no longer live in a "live and let live" world, and HOAs are generally populated by busybodies who can't resist the opportunity to make someone else's life miserable. End of admonition.


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## Smack (Jul 17, 2012)

Here's the thing, if they are going to enforce the rules (IF you are breaking the rules) on you and someone else in the HOA is also breaking the rules, any rule, and they are not enforcing the rules on them and making them comply then that's selective enforcement of the rules and is basically picking on just you and they can't legally do that.

Did you actually sign the HOA contract? My friend bought a house in a sub-division that had a HOA but never signed any contract when they went through the signing for the house, all they had was a contract signed by the previous owner. His neighbor is an attorney and told him you could do whatever you want, you are not legally bound by any contract. So if you signed a contract you are legally bound by that private contract and are stuck following the rules of that contract, just don't let them pick on you, make them enforce all of the rules all of the time or leave you alone.

Do they even know what your doing in there? If they do, how and why do they know...


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## element47.5 (Jul 17, 2012)

Respectfully, Smack, I don't know if what you say is a true truth. I would think that sending in your HOA dues is a ratification of their authority and accession to the terms of the implied contract. I'm not an attorney but I am also not thoroughly ignorant of legal issues. I WAS a realtor for a brief period. It could cost a serious boatload of money to assert the "right" to ignore the contract whether the OP signed it or not. And he must be sending in the dues or he would likely be in foreclosure from the HOA. While in the absolute sense, he may not have signed the contract; let me posit two additional principles: 1: he who gets their hands on money first has a massively more powerful claim to it in the purely practical and fully real sense than anyone subsequent. And 2: The law does not apply itself. You and or your actions may be in violation of the law as written or in compliance with the law as written. But there is a tremendous asymmetry in things legal; a violation of law is utterly nothing unless and until prosecuted; a right, if attacked, does not exist until it is defended, often at ruinous cost to the defender. I don't mean to sermonize, by the way. I just got done attempting to sue a caretaker who stole my uncle's estate, which was 80% willed to me. Talking $465K. I had to settle for $40K, with about $36K in legal fees. In other words, spit. This despite the overwhelming presumption in CA law that a caretaker who inherits all of an estate has stolen it. But the most important thing I can say is: The average person can NOT afford litigation. Simply can't. Thus they typically do not have access to it.


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## nickvc (Jul 18, 2012)

Elements reply reminds me of what one of my old bosses who was extremely wealthy told me, you can't get real justice unless your extremely rich or extremely poor the average Joe doesn't stand a chance.
Back to your problem maybe a compromise can be met, if they say it's too high then either reduce the height by dropping the roof or digging deeper foundations and lowering the floor, if it's what you use your shed for then perhaps a better extraction and scrubber system. Be sweetness and light and smile and agree to put right whatever their problem is it's darn near impossible to give someone a hard time who's co operating and then bend the rules to suit.


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## martyn111 (Jul 18, 2012)

nickvc said:


> then bend the rules to suit.



I like your style nick


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## Palladium (Jul 18, 2012)

Kill them with kindness! :mrgreen:


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## eeTHr (Jul 18, 2012)

publius---

From what you posted, the shed has been there for over 16 years, and you merely brought it into current compliance.

What's their beef with that? They should be giving you a medal!


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## MMFJ (Jul 18, 2012)

I agree.....


publius said:


> they want me to beg and plead with them. Maybe grovel a bit too. (not going to happen...)


Don't grovel (but a bit of begging and pleading may go a long way!)

I've found that, when working with 'gov't types', it is often a good thing to ask their HELP in resolving the issues - asking them often throws them off guard, as it is rare they are asked an opinion (after all, they are 'robots' for the most part - no disrespect, simply a form of wording that helps clarify the way they are usually treated, unless you chose to treat them a different way...). When asking them to help you, they just might give you the 'insider' points that will allow things to move smoothly.

Going in and blasting them with facts (even when you are right) rarely gets things going your way.

Reminds me of what we call "the I didn't Get A Salad Story" - where a group of folks goes into a restaurant and everyone orders the same thing, a green salad. The 'food server' brings everyone a salad - except you..... 

Now, you have a choice - Yell "_Hey, you didn't bring me a salad!_" (insert other, strong statements that belittle the server here...) *OR* you can say "_Excuse me, could I get a salad as well?_" (or some other, nice, 'I must have made a mistake, could you help me?' type statement).

BOTH ways will probably get you a salad...... 

HOWEVER, once the server is back in the kitchen, THEY have a choice - whether to spit in your salad (or not) before it comes to the table........ :shock: 

Yep, it is your choice, treat it as you will.

Personally, I prefer "spitless" salad! :lol:


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## eeTHr (Jul 18, 2012)

I favor MMFJ's suggestions.

Since it's the hearing is with the Design Review Board, I assume that their problem is with the structure, not what you are doing in it.

I would say, "I thought I brought it up to current covenants specifications, what else should I add to it?"

Maybe they just want it painted a different color! 8)


(I see in your original post that they said 30 days to demolish it. Did they ever say why?)


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## publius (Jul 18, 2012)

eeTHr said:


> I favor MMFJ's suggestions.
> 
> *Me too. I am a contracted employee, working with the Architect of the Capitol, so I have experience with
> government-speek...  *
> ...



They quoted the design standards to say that sheds such as mine "should" (not shall) be landscaped to hide them from view and that the shed "should" (not "Shall") be painted "muted earth tones," So I painted it the same "Reston Brown" that they required me to paint the original shed that collapsed. This sets up a claim against them of being "Arbitrary and Capricious." But I am saving that for the full board...


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## Smack (Jul 18, 2012)

Yea, you could stroke their ego a bit. They are like the mafia, "You want somthin you come see me" mentality, a lot like our gov.


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## eeTHr (Jul 19, 2012)

publius said:


> They quoted the design standards to say that sheds such as mine "should" (not shall) be landscaped to hide them from view



Plant a large bush or a small tree in front of it, I guess it's to block the view from the street. It may be small foliage at first, but just tell them, "it will grow, naturally." (nobody plants fully grown trees.) It sounds like that's all they really want.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 19, 2012)

Here is another thought. If you buck them and they have rules that are set up with fines when they are borken and you get fined and don't pay the fines then they will probably put a lien aginst the property so that when it is sold they get thier money or you might need to pay the liens before you start sales of the property.


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## publius (Jul 19, 2012)

It is not really a matter of planting trees, building a fence or even stroking a few egos. They don't know that I refine anything. I built a workshop (originally to do metal working for fun and profit...) that is too tall and too big in footprint according to the guidelines. They want to smack me down. Every member of that board is a Democrat. They "know" better than me what is pleasing to the eye and what is the best use of my land and house for the community and the environment.

I'll report back On the 24th... :|


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## maynman1751 (Jul 19, 2012)

Sounds like _ _ _ _ _ envy to me! WWaaaaaaa! yours is bigger than ours! What a bunch of egotistical butt-heads. Hope you make out OK with this.


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## publius (Jul 24, 2012)

Well, I just got back from the review board an hour ago. I waited a while to post this so I did not run afoul of the "no politics" and the "use clean language" rules. I just have to paint the shed which is "Reston brown" to the power blue that my house is colored...

Back in business!


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 24, 2012)

Awesome!!! 8) 8) 8)


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## MMFJ (Jul 24, 2012)

Congrats publius!


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## Palladium (Jul 24, 2012)

Good deal !!!


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## Oz (Jul 25, 2012)

As a contractor I have dealt with home owners associations in the past all too often. I am glad you received a reasonable response, as I have received findings that defied all logic. At the same time I have to LMAO that they made so much ado about nothing.

What color is your door painted?

Congratulations


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## publius (Jul 25, 2012)

Oz said:


> As a contractor I have dealt with home owners associations in the past all too often. I am glad you received a reasonable response, as I have received findings that defied all logic. At the same time I have to LMAO that they made so much ado about nothing.
> 
> What color is your door painted?
> 
> Congratulations



Thank OZ and every one else that has commented.

Their decision (both the first determination to have me remove the shed and the second allowing it to remain) is arbitrary and capricious.

When I bought the property there was a shed (poorly constructed and did not meet the design guidelines)
They insisted that I paint it "Reston brown" even though I told them I wanted to demolish it and rebuild it to meet the guidelines. I didn't have the money to fix it (having just paid a arm-and-a-leg for the house) at the time so eventually it collapsed. But I painted it any way.

Reston requires that a building that is damaged be repaired as soon as practical. so I did, painting the repaired structure the same brown (my mistake was not telling the DRB that I was repairing the shed in writing.)

Fast forward 5 years. The DRB did a review of the properties in the area and noted my shed/workshop.

More later. Work interferes!


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## maynman1751 (Jul 25, 2012)

Right On Publius! Back to refining! :mrgreen:


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## Rodthrower18 (Jul 25, 2012)

Glad to hear that you're back on track! I have an "inactive" HOA (one of the few communities in my area like this) and I still have a paranoia about the day they decide to become active. Hopefully this will be a simple rental property for me by then. Anyway all's well that ends well. Shortly ill have to contribute to paint costs by buying some of that pretty silver you refine :twisted:


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## butcher (Aug 5, 2012)

Glad to see that you were able to keep your shed.

but I have to say, government control has taken our freedom.


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