# Help identify powder after melting with copper as collector and desolving in nitric



## Biom (Jul 23, 2022)

Hello . I melted unknown material with copper . After desolving copper with nitric acid 50 percent water .I got dark powder . I have pictures included. If not gold what it could be . Knowing that nitric digestion will leave gold behind as brown powder thank you any help


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## Biom (Jul 23, 2022)

This is the pictures


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## Shark (Jul 23, 2022)

What metals will not be digested by nitric? 

Did you digest it in hot nitric or cold?

Stannous test?


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## eaglekeeper (Jul 23, 2022)

Do have any clue what the material came from...... e-waste, ore sample..etc. 

Take a small sample of the powder and see if it dissolves in AR, if some/all does do a stannous test.


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## Biom (Jul 23, 2022)

Shark said:


> What metals will not be digested by nitric?
> 
> Did you digest it in hot nitric or cold?
> 
> Stannous test?


Cold nitric . Iwill make stanous chloride .iam looking for tin metal


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## Biom (Jul 23, 2022)

eaglekeeper said:


> Do have any clue what the material came from...... e-waste, ore sample..etc.
> 
> Take a small sample of the powder and see if it dissolves in AR, if some/all does do a stannous test.


Iwill do that tomorrow .this is a simple from ore .I have tried it last year .I think it will desolve in A R only .iwill do that tomorrow . Iwill make stanous chloride too


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## Shark (Jul 23, 2022)

I would try some hot nitric, maybe heat what you have first. Then, as eaglekeeper suggested, try a small amount in AR.


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## Biom (Jul 23, 2022)

Iwill do that .iwill make stanous chloride .too


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Biom said:


> Hello . I melted unknown material with copper . After desolving copper with nitric acid 50 percent water .I got dark powder . I have pictures included. If not gold what it could be . Knowing that nitric digestion will leave gold behind as brown powder thank you any help


Nickel, Tin & Lead react slowly to dilute cold nitric acid. Heating it will distill the water and concentrate the acid provided the acid is not saturated. Gold and platinum based metals with exception to palladium will not react.


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## Yggdrasil (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Nickel, Tin & Lead react slowly to dilute cold nitric acid. Heating it will distill the water and concentrate the acid provided the acid is not saturated. Gold and platinum based metals with exception to palladium will not react.


It is not the concentration that increase the solubility, but rather the temperature.
Most materials are more soluble in dilute Nitric than concentrated.


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> It is not the concentration that increase the solubility, but rather the temperature.
> Most materials are more soluble in dilute Nitric than concentrated.


I'm not sure what is being assayed. It sounds like bronze, and if that is the case, then he's dealing with tin. It could also be that the acid is fully saturated. In that case, add more acid. Heating the acid will dissolve metals faster, and the aforementioned metals that do not react well will dissolve. The water will distill, and thus, the acid will concentrate. Other nonmetals will not dissolve, such as, carbon. Although, that doesn't sound like this is the case. The nitrogen dioxide or the lack of it means one of two things: the acid is fully saturated or the work it can do has completed. The latter is hardly the case until the solution is heated, and more acid is added.


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## Yggdrasil (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> I'm not sure what is being assayed. It sounds like bronze, and if that is the case, then he's dealing with tin. It could also be that the acid is fully saturated. In that case, add more acid. Heating the acid will dissolve metals faster, and the aforementioned metals that do not react well will dissolve. The water will distill, and thus, the acid will concentrate. Other nonmetals will not dissolve, such as, carbon. Although, that doesn't sound like this is the case. The nitrogen dioxide or the lack of it means one of two things: the acid is fully saturated or the work it can do has completed. The latter is hardly the case until the solution is heated, and more acid is added.


Nothing has been assayed.
He used copper as collector and smelted an unknown metal in it.
Then he dissolved the button in 50/50 Nitric/Water which seems correct under the circumstances.
He than asked what the black powder residue could be, which might be many things. 
PGM's if present, dirty Gold or even slag from smelting.

Tin is one of the things it can not be, because that becomes a grayish muddy sludge, not black powder.

But it can be, though unlikely, that the acid has been depleted, which can be checked by adding a bit more acid.
Or as he have been advised, to heat it, will accomplish the same thing.

But still it is not increasing concentration that do the job, it is the increased energy that heating adds into it.

One can of course boil it over extended time, which will cause loss of both water , acid and if present values.
Not recommended.
70-90C for a period of time should suffice plenty.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Nickel, Tin & Lead react slowly to dilute cold nitric acid. Heating it will distill the water and concentrate the acid provided the acid is not saturated. Gold and platinum based metals with exception to palladium will not react.


I will do it again with hot nitric today .see what happens .I.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Nothing has been assayed.
> He used copper as collector and smelted an unknown metal in it.
> Then he dissolved the button in 50/50 Nitric/Water which seems correct under the circumstances.
> He than asked what the black powder residue could be, which might be many things.
> ...


I will do it again today . with hot nitric see what happens. Just to test .and I will report


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Nothing has been assayed.
> He used copper as collector and smelted an unknown metal in it.
> Then he dissolved the button in 50/50 Nitric/Water which seems correct under the circumstances.
> He than asked what the black powder residue could be, which might be many things.
> ...


yes, add heat and/or more acid... Could be pacification, but that seems unlikely.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> yes, add heat and/or more acid... Could be pacification, but that seems unlikely.


i will do that today . And report


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Biom said:


> i will do that today . And report


If you smelted something, and used copper instead of lead? The ratio is actually 3:1, and if you do that, then a cupel is probably a better alternative. Also, rather than dissolve a button, you might try making a shot. Flux (50:50 Boric Acid + Borax) is generally used to seal a porous crucible or lower the melting temperature, if you are using a torch. In any case, a cupel will absorb the oxides, and leave the precious metals. The cupels can be crushed, the oxides can be leached out, recycled...etc.


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## Yggdrasil (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> If you smelted something, and used copper instead of lead? The ratio is actually 3:1, and if you do that, then a cupel is probably a better alternative. Also, rather than dissolve a button, you might try making a shot. Flux (50:50 Boric Acid + Borax) is generally used to seal a porous crucible or lower the melting temperature, if you are using a torch. In any case, a cupel will absorb the oxides, and leave the precious metals. The cupels can be crushed, the oxides can be leached out, recycled...etc.


In this case I assume he used Copper in stead of Silver in a over the top quartering. 
Since what he had was already metal it don’t much make sense to cupel it. 
I also assume he felt that his metal was high in PMs.
Cupelling makes sense for ores not that much for metals.
Copper is also much harder to cupel than Lead or Bismuth.

He then parted it with Nitric as one would with a standard quartering.
An assay would of course had pointed to the most appropriate route.
But quite expensive, for a single refine.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

I just did that randomly .with no calculation. I don't have what I Need for equipment . I used borax as flux . Iam running the left of borax in A R too in same time after I crached it to fine powder .and making stanous chloride .to test every thing .


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> If you smelted something, and used copper instead of lead? The ratio is actually 3:1, and if you do that, then a cupel is probably a better alternative. Also, rather than dissolve a button, you might try making a shot. Flux (50:50 Boric Acid + Borax) is generally used to seal a porous crucible or lower the melting temperature, if you are using a torch. In any case, a cupel will absorb the oxides, and leave the precious metals. The cupels can be crushed, the oxides can be leached out, recycled...etc.


It's hard to know what I have till .I do it this way .or get close to understand the material .plus I don't have what I need as far as equipment . And I can't send it for test too expansive .iwill report the rest


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> In this case I assume he used Copper in stead of Silver in a over the top quartering.
> Since what he had was already metal it don’t much make sense to cupel it.
> I also assume he felt that his metal was high in PMs.
> Cupelling makes sense for ores not that much for metals.
> ...


Yes


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## Martijn (Jul 24, 2022)

Biom, some safety advice: heat it in a sand bath and cover the beaker with a watch glass. Measure the temperature with an infra red laser thermometer to avoid contact with the solution. 
Use a catch basin and standard PPE. 
More fumes will be produced by warm acid. 
Heat it first and wait for a reaction. 

If no reaction occurs, you have two possible situations: all nitric digestable metal is dissolved and you still have free nitric, which is likely. 
Or all nitric is depleted and you need to add some more. 

How much metal and how much nitric are we talking here? 

So if no reaction is visible, first dip a piece of copper wire in the warm solution. Watch for bubbles. 
No bubbles but there is a precipitate on the copper? Then there is no more free nitric and you could have silver or Pd in solution. 

If no bubbling reaction is visible on the copper add a bit more Nitric. See if anything happens to the powder. 
If not, decant, rinse and dissolve the powder in clean AR the right way, not pre-mixed! 

Then test the solution with stannous to get an indication of what's possibly in there. 

Martijn.
Edited to make some more sense.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Biom, some safety advice: heat it in a sand bath and cover the beaker with a watch glass. Measure the temperature with an infra red laser thermometer to avoid contact with the solution.
> Use a catch basin and standard PPE.
> More fumes will be produced by warm acid.
> Heat it first and wait for a reaction.
> ...


I don't have any equipment .it's jus small sample . Iwill do that .iam going to purchase a glass for hot plate .idid run every thing in cold solution .now iwill try on hot side see what happens . And iam making stanous chloride to test as I go .iwill report in few hours . I am in Morocco working without lab .as far as safety yes I have to be carefull .but iam using small samples a time


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> In this case I assume he used Copper in stead of Silver in a over the top quartering.
> Since what he had was already metal it don’t much make sense to cupel it.
> I also assume he felt that his metal was high in PMs.
> Cupelling makes sense for ores not that much for metals.
> ...


I'm not sure what he did. I'm only assuming. A button of precious metals is more information than an unknown metal. Yes, once you have a button, then traditionally silver is used. I use the 3:1 ratio by default. You could use less if the sample has a higher silver content. I work with ores, and cupeling is just a process. You could use 1/4 cup of cement, which is cheap.


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Biom said:


> I don't have any equipment .it's jus small sample . Iwill do that .iam going to purchase a glass for hot plate .idid run every thing in cold solution .now iwill try on hot side see what happens . And iam making stanous chloride to test as I go .iwill report in few hours . I am in Morocco working without lab .as far as safety yes I have to be carefull .but iam using small samples a time



...a test tube and a candle are cheaper. Beaker stoppers are very useful; especially with a scrubber or if you conserving your acids to save money:


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Biom, some safety advice: heat it in a sand bath and cover the beaker with a watch glass. Measure the temperature with an infra red laser thermometer to avoid contact with the solution.
> Use a catch basin and standard PPE.
> More fumes will be produced by warm acid.
> Heat it first and wait for a reaction.
> ...



Safety first for sure.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

This is today some of the work .I did it again with hot nitric 50 water . Test with stanous chloride .I got black solution .test with coperass .I got black solution .both black but didn't stay long . After desolving the copper I got light brown powder some heavy some sponge .after that I rinse it with and placed in hot plate again it's light brown powder there is pictures .and the peace of copper got darker


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

This is the results from hot nitric


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> ...a test tube and a candle are cheaper. Beaker stoppers are very useful; especially with a scrubber or if you conserving your acids to save money:
> 
> View attachment 51346


Iam in Morocco not easy to get what I need .iam just running a small test for the moment .


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Biom said:


> This is today some of the work .I did it again with hot nitric 50 water . Test with stanous chloride .I got black solution .test with coperass .I got black solution .both black but didn't stay long . After desolving the copper I got light brown powder some heavy some sponge .after that I rinse it with and placed in hot plate again it's light brown powder there is pictures .and the peace of copper got darker


Sounds like precious metals. If you are just starting, just use test tubes. Scale up after that. Best advice.


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Biom said:


> Iam in Morocco not easy to get what I need .iam just running a small test for the moment .



All the more reason to get all that used acid back.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Sounds like precious metals. If you are just starting, just use test tubes. Scale up after that. Best advice.


It's just a test .may be if I come to USA .next couple months . I just start A R .itest with coperass


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

A R and test with copperas in coca cola top lead sorry no equipments


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Biom said:


> It's just a test .may be if I come to USA .next couple months . I just start A R .itest with coperass


Just melt it down at this stage; AR is not likely needed.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Just melt it down at this stage; AR is not likely needed.


I started A R .iwill finish and I made defrent A R for the rest of borax it does have same test . Iwill post the other one too and iwill fish .and start precipating as far as melting .I need electric furnace wich I don't have yet .iwill see where I can try to melt . If it doesn't need more work


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## Martijn (Jul 24, 2022)

Biom said:


> This is today some of the work .I did it again with hot nitric 50 water . Test with stanous chloride .I got black solution .test with coperass .I got black solution .both black but didn't stay long . After desolving the copper I got light brown powder some heavy some sponge .after that I rinse it with and placed in hot plate again it's light brown powder there is pictures .and the peace of copper got darker


So did you follow any of my advice or did you repeat the experiment hoping for different results? 
I dont know what your hoping to see with a stannous test in a strong copper nitrate solution? Which will offcourse be black, so you know your stannous works, that's all.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

Martijn said:


> So did you follow any of my advice or did you repeat the experiment hoping for different results?
> I dont know what your hoping to see with a stannous test in a strong copper nitrate solution? Which will offcourse be black, so you know your stannous works, that's all.


I reppeat all the work. but hot nitric got that light brown powder .with sponge in top .and did A R . Test with stanous .and the picture black with copperas


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Biom said:


> I started A R .iwill finish and I made defrent A R for the rest of borax it does have same test . Iwill post the other one too and iwill fish .and start precipating as far as melting .I need electric furnace wich I don't have yet .iwill see where I can try to melt . If it doesn't need more work



an electric furnace is not required either, but nice to have. I use map gas while in the field.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> an electric furnace is not required either, but nice to have. I use map gas while in the field.


Iwill see iam still testing . I may get that .in Morocco things are deferent


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

If you have electricity, you could make an DYI induction coil.


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## Martijn (Jul 24, 2022)

Your picture of the stannous test in a colored bottle cap has gotten me quite concerned. 

You have dissolved an unknown metal in AR and are touching that WITHOUT GLOVES!!!!  all over your fingers!!! it could be a variety of toxic chemical salts. 

Please stop this suicide mission and go study the safety section first.

To give you a theoretical idea of how to test with stannous: 








How to test with Stannous Chloride?


I've read a lot of posts instructing to always test with stannous but haven't come across one yet that actually describes how to do it. I actually do have Hoke's book and she says to use a spot plate. Not having one handy, I tried putting a drop of solution onto a white corian plate, then...




goldrefiningforum.com





But really, use gloves!! No gold is worth your health or your life. You have to breathe to enjoy your gold.


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Your picture of the stannous test in a colored bottle cap has gotten me quite concerned.
> 
> You have dissolved an unknown metal in AR and are touching that WITHOUT GLOVES!!!!  all over your fingers!!! it could be a variety of toxic chemical salts.
> 
> ...


He's right. There could be all kinds of nasty things in there, and you yourself started this thread by stating an unknown. Hydroxides can etch glass, for example. I'm terrified of caustic soda (Sodium Hydroxide). Although, the hydroxide wouldn't likely survive in Nitric Acid.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> If you have electricity, you could make an DYI induction coil.


Show me how if it's possible


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Your picture of the stannous test in a colored bottle cap has gotten me quite concerned.
> 
> You have dissolved an unknown metal in AR and are touching that WITHOUT GLOVES!!!!  all over your fingers!!! it could be a variety of toxic chemical salts.
> 
> ...


Don't worry I have been working very safe . That was small sample


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

There are videos; I don't have time to reinvent the wheel:


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## JATSLO (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> There are videos; I don't have time to reinvent the wheel:




The induction coil is good for PGM metals, as well.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

I don't mix any thing without knowing what's the safety side . That test .I was faaaaar way from every thing .whene things done I check for results that cup holding the test .it's copperas .ferouss sulfate to test aqua regia solution for gold . 


Martijn said:


> Your picture of the stannous test in a colored bottle cap has gotten me quite concerned.
> 
> You have dissolved an unknown metal in AR and are touching that WITHOUT GLOVES!!!!  all over your fingers!!! it could be a variety of toxic chemical salts.
> 
> ...


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> There are videos; I don't have time to reinvent the wheel:



Thank you .iwill see if I can make it


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## AlZabrisky (Jul 24, 2022)

I believe that everyone understands that this is a hobbyist forum, refiners and hobbyists helping each other.
When others are trying to get knowledge for commercial gains, participants should be compensated for their input or hired on an advisory or consulting basis.
I recall from earlier posts the OP trying to get information to drive an apparent stagnant commercial entity. User 4Metals, among others , was extremely helpful and should have been compensated. Knowledge and experience don't come cheap. Helping each other from a science and knowledge based perspective should be encouraged. Drawing on the knowledge and experience of others for commercial gain should be discouraged, unless compensation is offered.


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## AlZabrisky (Jul 24, 2022)

To the OP:
From the pictures and description, certainly you seem to be ignoring known safety protocols for the type of experiment you are attempting. Don't take the suggestions and reminders lightly. Dealing with acids and toxic/unknown materials can be life changing if not seriously addressed. Small scale is just as dangerous as large scale.
Heed the advice. Contact me if you need help in getting safety gears.


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## Biom (Jul 24, 2022)

AlZabrisky said:


> I believe that everyone understands that this is a hobbyist forum, refiners and hobbyists helping each other.
> When others are trying to get knowledge for commercial gains, participants should be compensated for their input or hired on an advisory or consulting basis.
> I recall from earlier posts the OP trying to get information to drive an apparent stagnant commercial entity. User 4Metals, among others , was extremely helpful and should have been compensated. Knowledge and experience don't come cheap. Helping each other from a science and knowledge based perspective should be encouraged. Drawing on the knowledge and experience of others for commercial gain should be discouraged, unless compensation is offered.


It's ok to help .if you can . That's what's the forum about


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

eaglekeeper said:


> Do have any clue what the material came from...... e-waste, ore sample..etc.
> 
> Take a small sample of the powder and see if it dissolves in AR, if some/all does do a stannous test.


Tried it .nitric .won't desolve .in hcl won't desolve . Desolve in hot aqua regia only . I posted some photos


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## Shark (Jul 25, 2022)

Try the stannous test again on the AR using something white. A q-tip would be nice. A plastic spoon would be good also. Only drop three or four grains of your copperas in it. It does not take many. Watch closely around the grains for color changes.


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

Shark said:


> Try the stannous test again on the AR using something white. A q-tip would be nice. A plastic spoon would be good also. Only drop three or four grains of your copperas in it. It does not take many. Watch closely around the grains for color changes.


I have tried that it turn dark black with copperas .iwill do it again


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## Shark (Jul 25, 2022)

The red cap makes it hard to see well in pictures.

We’re there any precipitate?


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

Shark said:


> The red cap makes it hard to see well in pictures.
> 
> We’re there any precipitate?


I will do it again and make picture.


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## Martijn (Jul 25, 2022)

Biom said:


> Iam in Morocco not easy to get what I need .iam just running a small test for the moment .


Then why waste nitric on copper digestion? 


Biom said:


> Don't worry I have been working very safe . That was small sample


No you have not been working safe. You are fooling around with inappropriate materials and spilling the toxic UNKNOWN chemical salts over your skin, which rapidly absorbs these accumulative and deadly chemicals you made into your bloodstream. (it can be anything, since you do not know what you alloyed!!)


Biom said:


> I don't mix any thing without knowing what's the safety side . That test .I was faaaaar way from every thing .whene things done I check for results that cup holding the test .it's copperas .ferouss sulfate to test aqua regia solution for gold .



Yes you did. You mixed unknown metals in an alloy and dissolved it in AR:


Biom said:


> Hello . I melted unknown material





Biom said:


> It's hard to know what I have till .I do it this way .or get close to understand the material



You don't know what you're doing. Stop and study.


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

Most people don't know what they are doing, and make do with the very limited resources that they have. Some people do this not because they want to, but because they need to. They have a very limited way to make a living, for example. The fact that he is on this website tells me that he is reaching out; doing the due diligence. He will evolve as will his process.


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## Martijn (Jul 25, 2022)

AlZabrisky said:


> I believe that everyone understands that this is a hobbyist forum, refiners and hobbyists helping each other.
> When others are trying to get knowledge for commercial gains, participants should be compensated for their input or hired on an advisory or consulting basis.
> I recall from earlier posts the OP trying to get information to drive an apparent stagnant commercial entity. User 4Metals, among others , was extremely helpful and should have been compensated. Knowledge and experience don't come cheap. Helping each other from a science and knowledge based perspective should be encouraged. Drawing on the knowledge and experience of others for commercial gain should be discouraged, unless compensation is offered.


I strongly disagree. 

Everything we duscuss here daily is discussed and thouroughly described before and very easy to find once you learn to use the search button. 

(And commit yourself to serious study, Biom)

The knowledge and advice is free and given by those willing to share it. 
The admins and experienced members will correct anyone if needed and consenus is usually reached. (A long time ago for most things) 

All our collective knowledge today is based on the poineers far far before us, going back to the beginning of times, who were inventive, curious and brave enough to take risks and research sometimes a lifetime for answers to life's mysteries we now take for granted.

We should benefit from the knowledge we collectively have and better this world, making processes more efficient and environmentally friendly. 

That being said, should someone invent a real groundbreaking new process, yes, he should reap the fruits of his labor and get rich, no problem with that. 
The same goes for ones who invests time and money and roll up the sleeves to make an honest independent living. 

But none of this is new, exept for some 'new' ways to handle things invented by respected members. 

Who are free to share whatever they like. 

Martijn.


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

I follow the collective, as well. It is nice to hear someone else doing the same.


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## Martijn (Jul 25, 2022)

To continue, many members here started out as a hobbyist and got real good at it so they went proffessional. Gathering materials, experience, knowledge and funds for the startup as they grew in this craft.


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Then why waste nitric on copper digestion?
> 
> No you have not been working safe. You are fooling around with inappropriate materials and spilling the toxic UNKNOWN chemical salts over your skin, which rapidly absorbs these accumulative and deadly chemicals you made into your bloodstream. (it can be anything, since you do not know what you alloyed!!)
> 
> ...


Iam .working very safe .iam still here .I know very much about safety .it's very small sample . All the refiners know how AR smell like . Some how with every thing any body can make mastakes . May be this is my mastake . May be I know what's the materials is . And want every bodys openion


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

Martijn said:


> To continue, many members here started out as a hobbyist and got real good at it so they went proffessional. Gathering materials, experience, knowledge and funds for the startup as they grew in this craft.



I hope everyone is making money and/or having some fun. Be safe.


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

Test with copperas .


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

Biom said:


> Test with copperas .


Anything else in that sample is just a small fraction. I wouldn't even waste my time until I had a couple of ounces. Just drop it, put it in a labeled baby food jar (or something), and move onto the next batch.


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Anything else in that sample is just a small fraction. I wouldn't even waste my time until I had a couple of ounces. Just drop it, put it in a labeled baby food jar (or something), and move onto the next batch.


So what is it for sure


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

gold


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> gold


Great .thanks .I was sure .but didn't know if it can be recovered and in what form it was .


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

Shark said:


> Try the stannous test again on the AR using something white. A q-tip would be nice. A plastic spoon would be good also. Only drop three or four grains of your copperas in it. It does not take many. Watch closely around the grains for color changes.


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

Biom said:


> Great .thanks .I was sure .but didn't know if it can be recovered and in what form it was .


it looked pretty pure before the AR. You should recover all that acid you used. Cutting expenses will improve the profitability.


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> it looked pretty pure before the AR. You should recover all that acid you used. Cutting expenses will improve the profitability.



Be mindful that some processes will create hydroxides (wicked mean stuff). Be safe.


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## Martijn (Jul 25, 2022)

Still way too much solution to test. 
One drop on white paper will do. 
You should dilute it with some drops of water if the stannous reaction is too dark. 
You need to see color, not a dark spot.


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Still way too much solution to test.
> One drop on white paper will do.
> You should dilute it with some drops of water if the stannous reaction is too dark.
> You need to see color, not a dark spot.



i thought that was a lot, as well


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## Shark (Jul 25, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> i thought that was a lot, as well


Agreed.


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Most people don't know what they are doing, and make do with the very limited resources that they have. Some people do this not because they want to, but because they need to. They have a very limited way to make a living, for example. The fact that he is on this website tells me that he is reaching out; doing the due diligence. He will evolve as will his proc





Martijn said:


> Still way too much solution to test.
> One drop on white paper will do.
> You should dilute it with some drops of water if the stannous reaction is too dark.
> You need to see color, not a dark spot.


Just want to know it's there .and some opinions


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Then why waste nitric on copper digestion?
> 
> No you have not been working safe. You are fooling around with inappropriate materials and spilling the toxic UNKNOWN chemical salts over your skin, which rapidly absorbs these accumulative and deadly chemicals you made into your bloodstream. (it can be anything, since you do not know what you alloyed!!)
> 
> ...


Iam done don't worry


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Most people don't know what they are doing, and make do with the very limited resources that they have. Some people do this not because they want to, but because they need to. They have a very limited way to make a living, for example. The fact that he is on this website tells me that he is reaching out; doing the due diligence. He will evolve as will his process.


Yes. For the moment I don't have any equipments . Iwill make my own labe one day if I have to keep doing this . . I didn't want to this but didn't have a choice . And I have been very safe .if I didn't wear gloves it's not the end of the world .it's small sample and it's done ouuuuut side .yes I agree need to be carefull. But some time if you don't have a choice . I just do it


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

Martijn said:


> I strongly disagree.
> 
> Everything we duscuss here daily is discussed and thouroughly described before and very easy to find once you learn to use the search button.
> 
> ...


That wasn't my post and it's not my opinion . I hit like by mestake I desgre with labrasky. All the knowledge should be given for free .just to help others out


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

Biom said:


> That wasn't my post and it's not my opinion . I hit like by mestake I desgre with labrasky. All the knowledge should be given for free .just to help others out


Okay, but you need to sell me all your gold for cheap ;o) Funny.


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Okay, but you need to sell me all your gold for cheap ;o) Funny.


Wish me luck may be one day . You never know . I don't have any equipment yet . . This is just experiment for the moment


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

good luck


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> good luck


Thank you . Very much for all the info . Was very helpful .


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## Shark (Jul 25, 2022)

I started with a coffee maker, three flower vases and half a dozen shot glasses. Some days I miss the simple “equipment”.


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

Shark said:


> I started with a coffee maker, three flower vases and half a dozen shot glasses. Some days I miss the simple “equipment”.


Yes that's what I tried to explain to martjin . Every body start somewhere .as long as you do your best not to harm your self and any body . I was very careful .and had no choice no lab to do it . so I just did .iam still here it's nothing . And iam thinking about deferent sample ....joking


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## Biom (Jul 25, 2022)

Martjin you the best. I start thinking very seriously about lab . One day if I keep doing this .


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## Yggdrasil (Jul 25, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Be mindful that some processes will create hydroxides (wicked mean stuff). Be safe.


Unless you neutralize the solution with some kind of alkali, you won’t get hydroxides to speak of. At least not the wicked, mean stuff

Some iron hydroxides may form while the solution is still somewhat acidic if I’m not mistaken, but they are not neither wicked nor mean, just annoying fluffy stuff.

So unless you reach into the highly caustic region, nothing will be wicked or mean


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> caustic



There are a number of processes, but I was talking about recovery of the nitric acid. Electrolysis will generate hydroxides or oxides depending on the setup. Hydroxides only get worse as the temperature rises like anything else.


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

Here is a scrap science video:


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## JATSLO (Jul 25, 2022)

I don't know why people choose carbon electrodes; maybe because there are cheap; IDK.


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## Biom (Jul 26, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Unless you neutralize the solution with some kind of alkali, you won’t get hydroxides to speak of. At least not the wicked, mean stuff
> 
> Some iron hydroxides may form while the solution is still somewhat acidic if I’m not mistaken, but they are not neither wicked nor mean, just annoying fluffy stuff.
> 
> So unless you reach into the highly caustic region, nothing will be wicked or mean


Did you see all the pictures .please your opinon mater to me .


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## Durdane (Jul 26, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Most people don't know what they are doing, and make do with the very limited resources that they have. Some people do this not because they want to, but because they need to. They have a very limited way to make a living, for example. The fact that he is on this website tells me that he is reaching out; doing the due diligence. He will evolve as will his process.


Dead organisms cannot evolve unfortunately...


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## Yggdrasil (Jul 26, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> There are a number of processes, but I was talking about recovery of the nitric acid. Electrolysis will generate hydroxides or oxides depending on the setup. Hydroxides only get worse as the temperature rises like anything else.


I’m a bit puzzled here, I have scanned this thread to be sure, but I have as far as I remember and see not used the term Caustic in this thread???
How did you find it, and where?


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## Yggdrasil (Jul 26, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> There are a number of processes, but I was talking about recovery of the nitric acid. Electrolysis will generate hydroxides or oxides depending on the setup. Hydroxides only get worse as the temperature rises like anything else.


Hydroxides will occur if you electrolyse caustic- basic- pH 7+ solutions yes.
But you are talking about Nitric which is sub 1 maybe 2 ??


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## JATSLO (Jul 26, 2022)

I think potassium nitrate will make caustic potash, which can be bad. I suspect he has mostly copper, though. He did start the thread with an unknown, however. The moral of the story is: do not discard your acids, when they can be reused. Yes, some are lost along the way, but only a fraction. It's funny that in the video he made ammonia hydroxide.


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## JATSLO (Jul 26, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I’m a bit puzzled here, I have scanned this thread to be sure, but I have as far as I remember and see not used the term Caustic in this thread???
> How did you find it, and where?



I began talking about how to clean up the mess he made in which caustic can be a byproduct of a process.


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## Yggdrasil (Jul 26, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> I began talking about how to clean up the mess he made in which caustic can be a byproduct of a process.


Do you create a fictious quote from me to push a point that don’t make much sense chemically??
Why do you do that??
I’m on the verge of asking one of the moderators to look into your current history!


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## Yggdrasil (Jul 26, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> I think potassium nitrate will make caustic potash, which can be bad. I suspect he has mostly copper, though. He did start the thread with an unknown, however. The moral of the story is: do not discard your acids, when they can be reused. Yes, some are lost along the way, but only a fraction. It's funny that in the video he made ammonia hydroxide.


Potassium nitrate will create poor man’s Nitric, and will for all practical purposes behave like Nitric.
So what kind of magical dust will make an acid behave like a strong alkali?

Even if the name may have similarities the reaction do not recognise the names we give them, it do what the nature has given it the power to do.

That is the reason why we NEED to keep the chemical names correct.


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## JATSLO (Jul 26, 2022)

Please do. You sound like an idiot, and will take no part in it. Jackass!!!


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## Yggdrasil (Jul 26, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> Please do. You sound like an idiot, and will take no part in it. Jackass!!!


So why did you invent a quote I did not post?


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## JATSLO (Jul 26, 2022)

I'm gone!!! have a nice life.


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## Yggdrasil (Jul 26, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> I'm gone!!! have a nice life.


Too bad, in some ways you seemed to be able to contribute in a positive manner. 
On the other hand honesty and reliability are considered important here. If you can operate within those parameters I expect you to still be welcome.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 26, 2022)

Jatslo was right about one thing. He's gone.

Dave


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## Biom (Jul 26, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> I'm gone!!! have a nice life.


Please don't do that it's just miss understanding .


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## Biom (Jul 26, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Too bad, in some ways you seemed to be able to contribute in a positive manner.
> On the other hand honesty and reliability are considered important here. If you can operate within those parameters I expect you to still be welcome.


There is a mis understanding some how . I hope iam not part of it .


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## Martijn (Jul 26, 2022)

Biom said:


> Martjin you the best. I start thinking very seriously about lab . One day if I keep doing this .


Safety is partially my occupation. I will always point out clearly avoidable risks. 

You will get there. Hang on. Keep learning. But have patience, this is not mastered in an afternoon. Your material will still be there waiting for you to process it the best way you can. 

Like others said, you don't need a fully equipped lab, just enough to get the job done safely and effectively. I use whatever I can or have laying around to keep cotst down.

My comments about your bottle cap were because you need to realize never to take shortcuts. 
Use gloves always, even with apparently clean lab ware. 

Also: other new members read this post and may think it's ok to spill a little bit over your fingers. It's not. Never. 

And red is no good to show a purple stannous test result from gold.. as said by others. 
You need to read the link about stannous testing I gave you in this thread. Ask if you don't understand something. 

Study and ask questions before you attempt anything new. Then we can and will help you the best way. 

Have fun. Stay safe and healthy.


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## FrugalRefiner (Jul 26, 2022)

JATSLO said:


> I'm gone!!! have a nice life.





Biom said:


> Please don't do that it's just miss understanding .


Biom, my banning Jatslo didn't have anything to do with you.

I banned him for two reasons:
1. He was posting misinformation.
2. We don't tolerate anyone calling other members names like Jackass. It is against forum rules.

Dave


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## Martijn (Jul 26, 2022)

Biom said:


> There is a mis understanding some how . I hope iam not part of it .


You're not part of it. Some people just do not have the communicative skills to respond in a polite manner or they feel attacked when criticized. 
Foul mouthing has no place here. We share ideas, challenge or confirm theories and help fellow refiners with respect, but straight forward.


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## Shark (Jul 26, 2022)

Wow! I spend 8 hours in the hospital and this really went sideways!
There were other people that I did not care for on the forum but tried to get along with because I knew they had more knowledge than I did on refining. He and I worked it out but he still had problems with others he just could not get past. I just don’t care for things when it comes to name calling. Just no reason for it. We can teach or learn. Or we can do both at times. Calling names teaches nothing useful.

Anyway, maybe we can can get back to the refining side of things.


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## Biom (Jul 26, 2022)

Shark said:


> Wow! I spend 8 hours in the hospital and this really went sideways!
> There were other people that I did not care for on the forum but tried to get along with because I knew they had more knowledge than I did on refining. He and I worked it out but he still had problems with others he just could not get past. I just don’t care for things when it comes to name calling. Just no reason for it. We can teach or learn. Or we can do both at times. Calling names teaches nothing useful.
> 
> Anyway, maybe we can can get back to the refining side of things.


Are you ok .hope you fine .


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## Biom (Jul 26, 2022)

Martijn said:


> You're not part of it. Some people just do not have the communicative skills to respond in a polite manner or they feel attacked when criticized.
> Foul mouthing has no place here. We share ideas, challenge or confirm theories and help fellow refiners with respect, but straight forward.


 I enjoyed every bodyes conversation .a lot of people learning from it some how .and it's hard to see some one go just like that . Yes I learned from him . And in same time he shouldnt get mad at any one for any reason to bad .I wish him good luck


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## Biom (Jul 26, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Biom, my banning Jatslo didn't have anything to do with you.
> 
> I banned him for two reasons:
> 1. He was posting misinformation.
> ...


You did what you have to do .it's the rules . With all my respect


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## Biom (Jul 26, 2022)

Ok let's go back please . This thread it's not done yet .iam precipating tomorow


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## Shark (Jul 26, 2022)

I’m good now. I had to have a stent put in the right side of my heart. On my way home now. 

I love a thread where everyone works together to solve the problem. It allows for many to learn from each other. Looking forward to see how the precipitation goes.


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## Biom (Jul 26, 2022)

Shark said:


> I’m good now. I had to have a stent put in the right side of my heart. On my way home now.
> 
> I love a thread where everyone works together to solve the problem. It allows for many to learn from each other. Looking forward to see how the precipitation goes.


I wish you well and great health . Please get some rest .I hope you feel better very soooooooooooon .


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## cejohnsonsr1 (Jul 26, 2022)

Adios @$$hole! Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.


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## BlackLabel (Jul 27, 2022)

Shark said:


> I’m good now. I had to have a stent put in the right side of my heart. On my way home now.


Fast recovery!


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