# help in ridding ash from chips with water



## steyr223 (Apr 10, 2014)

Gentlemen,ladies, others
I hope all is well in between your ears

I have been reading patnors tutorial on black chips
I am on page 18(very long buy good)
I also downloaded his first pdf and read

My problem arrives at the "washing ash with water" step
I seem to sit for hrs letting water run into smaller bucket into bigger bucket(wich is taller by the way so i do have to
Dump the water and start over)
My water continues to stay black for hours the water accumulation is huge so i try to decant big bucket into another into anothet so on and so on but the water is still black so i never get to see the gold and end up with absolutely none 
I run the water so slow that the ash cakes up but if i agitate it i think the gold will float up

This is what i end up with and by the way nothing was magnetic at all THIS. Was a handfull of ic's 14 and 16 legs
When you talk of eprom types half wer, but with no wwindow 
Sorry for misspelling my phone changes my words and i cant edit amy of this 
Thanks steyr223 rob


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## joubjonn (Apr 10, 2014)

I have the same issue. Ashing chips is a major headache 

I got myself a gold pan to check and see when I'm loosing gold. I found the little wires do in fact float. Dish soap seemed to help with this. It takes hours to get rid of the ash. I think the best way for us is to make a Sluic with corrugated pipe or a miller table. I posted a good link to some info for a miller table awhile back. I really think most of the fine gold does settle to the bottom of the buckets quickly but I do think we are loosing some if you don't use a miller table or sluice. They can each be home built for cheap.


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## steyr223 (Apr 10, 2014)

Thanks a sluice or miller table i will look inton
Steyr223 rob


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## joubjonn (Apr 10, 2014)

I tried something new today and it worked a little faster

I took some IC ash I had that had not been separated yet. And I was working with some foils from gold filled already in HCl/Cl

So I took the conc IC ash and dumped it all in my gold pan. About 150 grams. I sifted it through a strainer to remove the big pieces. Then vibrated the pan with my hand to one corner. So all the heavy stuff would concentrate in one area while lifting it to one side. I then used my fingers and pinched out the top material into a glass jar. I kept doing this until all I had was mostly gold wires in the pan. Those went in with the foils. I then did it again with the material I had removed in the jar. I had missed some but not much. This went way faster and I'm sure I didn't get all of it but I got most and I saved everything anyway. Usually I would just get the ash out with water and put the concentrate in nitric then incinerate and ash again and put that in AR. This was a quick and easy way.


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## necromancer (Apr 10, 2014)

has anyone tried the super salted water trick on ashed ic / chips ?


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## joubjonn (Apr 11, 2014)

Nice! I never even thought to do that. That might work pretty well. And use a magnet on the kovar and you would be all set. I'm gonna try it. Give me a few days to strip some boards and I'll let you know.


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## necromancer (Apr 11, 2014)

here is the link
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldr...hp?f=34&t=20158&p=206185&hilit=+water#p206171


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## steyr223 (Apr 12, 2014)

I tried bmgolds electrical box today
I had a few issues but as everyone keeps pointing
Out no matter what you do it takes practice tobecome proficient 
In the end after all the concentrates were gathered i still found my self panning more of the ash out and this is what im trying to avoid  

I think a sluice for tomorrow will be a good day

Thamks steyr223 rob


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## steyr223 (Apr 13, 2014)

Ok how is everyone 
Well i made a makeshift sluice today 
And tried about 150 ic's from memory
Pc3200 ,5300,maybe. Some older
And about 20 bga type chips (about 2/3 the
Size of regular north and south bridge chips

After incineration i didn't have a way to sieve (not to be
A moron but this means sift  ) i will next time
I ground up pretty good but there were a few that didn't get
Done due to running out of acetylene .

I put all in sluice
I think i am happy as i have been going through my ash witha loop all day and havn't ffound any gold: i think

This took all of 10 min in the sluice dont laugh although 
It is darn funny



My ash after sluice




My concentrates as of now




Please tear the pics apart on your hi tech pc's
And let me know whats what 
Remember im color blind

One more pic ,i know these are not bonding wires so why 
No mention



Thanks steyr223 Rob


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## joubjonn (Apr 14, 2014)

I couldn't see much from those. What I would suggest is putting the concentrate in a bowl, use a strong magnet and remove the iron. Do this with water so you can wash any gold wires out. It's gotta be tough being color blind for sure. I would say get a cheap gold pan from eBay. $5-10. That's what I use whenever I ash IC's. That way I can test everything before I separate it and discard. I almost always find a little tiny gold wire that way. And when I do the concentrate I find lots of them. I would try the sluic again with everything minus the iron. Take the concentrate and do a nitric leach then incinerate and then do AR with very small nitric additions. Use as little HCl as possible to keep the amount reasonable. Or you can try HCl/Cl but it takes longer, however you can test it easier with Stannous.


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## steyr223 (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks
is there not a reason to soak in hcl
To rid the tin or maybe CuCl to rid copper

I have not checked these yet but so far everything I have done has been non magnetic 

Thanks steyr223 rob


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## joubjonn (Apr 14, 2014)

i used to do a soak in HCl, then i figured i was using a magnet to remove all the legs anyway so i didn't see a point to it anymore. i would incinerate, dump the pieces in water, sift it through a strainer, remove the magnetic pices, re-incinerate the big pieces that were in the strainer, sift again and remove more magnetic pieces, remove as much ash as i could and then run that concentrate in 50/50 nitric. incinerate again, remove ash again, then do AR on whats left.

however i started using a gold pan on the last batch, did small batches in the gold pan, getting all the gold wires into one side, then removed the top layer with my fingers by pinching it off, this removed ALOT of extra material that i didn't have to deal with anymore. i would just check what i removed in the gold pan after to see if i missed any.

with BGA or flat packs you don't have to worry about magnetic pieces or tin as they have neither once the bottom half is removed, just remove the ash as much as possible, 50/50 nitric, incenerate, AR.


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## joubjonn (Apr 14, 2014)

cooper II leach could also work like nitric, just slower.


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## goldenchild (Apr 15, 2014)

Might I suggest these? I bought a few sizes a long time ago and don't remember exactly what for but they did work well.

http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=fs5


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## joubjonn (Apr 15, 2014)

Ohh man. More stuff I have to buy!

Thanks! I do like those! Would make things easier for sure.


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## steyr223 (Apr 15, 2014)

Nice product goldenchild
I had the same idea a while back to
Filter my auric chloride with i think a drum stand
With 3 arms one above the other .each arm holding 
A funnel with a Charmin plug

Thanks steyr223 rob


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## patnor1011 (Apr 18, 2014)

Washing is easier if material is incinerated properly. All must be looking like white/grey ash.


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## patnor1011 (Apr 18, 2014)

Rob, when you reduce initial batch to say 20% of starting volume and remove all magnetic material, you should then gave concentrate leach in warm nitric to remove all other non magnetic metal pins. Then quick wash, dry, and crush again I use small mortar & pestle, then wash with water again.
You can use big containers to store wash water, give it a day and ash will settle on bottom and you can reuse that water again.
Here is picture of small sluice I made from gutter pipe and rugged rubber mat. I tried to make it as long as possible, I run material through but not all, lets say one/two cups at a time, then I wash everything trapped in rivets to separate container. Repeat till all material is processed. Then I take container where waste go and next day when water settle I remove it and run it through sluice again. It is slow but efficient. I always put some washing up liquid in water I use for washing.


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## steyr223 (Apr 19, 2014)

Thanks patnor
Actually my sluice worked excellent, even though i see no 
Gold i see no metal or heavys in my wash
I check with a loop
The problem is i just cant see the gold
So i dont know if it is being washed away or not

To get to the point of the so called pay streak in the pan is way after a lot of washing and decanting and if the bonding wires act anything like foils or even powders than
How do i know if there getting washed away

This is a pic after sifting with a screen ,sluiced,magnetic removal, ground ,sifted




On the right is my concentrates, middle is all magmetic removed materials(i have sifted more conc since the pic)
The left is all non magnetic that didnt sift

The problem is we see no gold in any and am wondering
If my miniture bga packeges have very little gold
Thanks steyr223. Rob


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## GotTheBug (Apr 19, 2014)

Patnor, that is THE most amazing use I've ever seen for a piece of scrap gutter. Kudo's my friend!


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## steyr223 (Apr 20, 2014)

Patnor i took this pic after i split the bga
Am i to believe the bonding wires
Are the ones i labled A if so how many .

These have very little if i am looking at it correct
They dont appear to be a wire but more of a plate kinda like a rectangle

They come in scanners , unitech

Anyways this was an excellent learning experience
I now want to get a pan and learn :mrgreen: 

But i did put my boards up on craigslist today
I have to register my vehicle this month 

I have not givvin up as i put all of my conc into poormans
Ar today and will see if i have any pm's once i finish the base metal dissolution 

Thanks steyr223 rob


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## g_axelsson (Apr 20, 2014)

You have two major pieces in your picture. On top is the fiber board and on the bottom is the die with the epoxy cover.
The top piece is basically a small circuit board which is gold plated on exposed parts. This is only a thin plate and usually not worth trying to recover. The board is the carrier, on the bottom is the solder balls and on top the die is placed. Thin bonding wires are used to connect the die to the carrier board electrically, each one going from the board to the top of the die. To protect the wires the top part is molded in epoxy. Sometimes with an integrated heat spreader, a copper plate embedded in the epoxy.
Since the gold wires is fully embedded inside the epoxy, when we rip the two pieces apart most of the crap (fiber board, tin balls) ends up in one part and the epoxy piece only have the die and 99% of gold.

Break the plastic piece in two and then take a microscope or a strong loupe and examine the break, you can see thin wires sticking out.

... or just check the forum where Geo posted http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=13667, Sam posted http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=12167 or I posted http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=11827&start=160#p161576 :mrgreen: 

Göran


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## steyr223 (Apr 20, 2014)

Thanks Göran

As always you shed a good fraction of the info i have
Been banging my head aagainst the wall trying to find

I just got done with Geo's post

Thank you steyr223 rob


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## patnor1011 (Apr 20, 2014)

GotTheBug said:


> Patnor, that is THE most amazing use I've ever seen for a piece of scrap gutter. Kudo's my friend!



Haha... I only need to do better job on using silicone but I was in a hurry.


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