# military scrap worth £25/$40 kilo?



## micronationcreation

hi, i have purchased a few lots of e-scrap on ebay but have never manged to recover more value than i paid for it, i cannot understand why people are paying so much for scrap on ebay.

i am currently watching this military scrap, what do you think it will yield? i messaged the seller asking what the components are and this was their response: 

"hi they are gold plated computer couplings of various sorts on some kind of brass or copper metal.stripped to as clean as i can get them,but i can't for some reason get them to separate, i think its my nitric acid which is only a 35% solution,but i cannot source anything stronger.they produce good results apparently but not for me,so i'm trying to get my money back rather than waste anymore.thats the reason i say please don't bid if you don't know the process,regards"

Item number: 200589124247


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## stihl88

These would be stripped in a Sulfuric Cell, they look to be thinly plated and may run 1 to 2g a pound or higher if it is thick plating.
Generally speaking if the plated item is a shiny bright yellow color then you can tell that it's thinly plated. You never really know unless you have the
spec sheet which tells you how thick the plating is.


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## micronationcreation

hi, thanks for reply, i wouldnt be dissappointed with 1-2g per pound, i recently bought about 4 kilo of ram on ebay for about £30 and the result was only 1gram and i was careful not to lose any during processing.
i find the prices people expect for scrap are rediculous and they seem to have no trouble selling it either.


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## Anonymous

Since he has nitric,and has confessed to using it,I would be hesitant of buying these.He obviously knows what he is doing.
You cannot lose money,if you don't win the auction.
Added
He has sold 8 auctions with this same material
They sold for 
$30 GBP - 500 grams
$25 " 1kg 
$21 " 500 grams
$16 " 500 grams
$15 " 500 grams
$10 " 350 grams
$10 " 350 grams
$4 " 650 grams
All of the feedback he has recieved only spoke about the shipping time,except for one member that left a neutral feedback and wrote "nothing",which I can only assume means,they found nothing in the material........
I stick to my original suggestion,leave it alone.There is too much escrap out there to be taking a risk on this stuff.


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## micronationcreation

yes, that did cross my mind too, i was assuming he was a novice who had taken with the idea of refining scrap, couldnt get it to work and is now cutting his losses.
i have actually just purchased 1 kilo from him  , he has another 3 lots on auction i was thinking of buying, i might give them a miss now.


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## patnor1011

micronationcreation said:


> yes, that did cross my mind too, i was assuming he was a novice who had taken with the idea of refining scrap, couldnt get it to work and is now cutting his losses.
> i have actually just purchased 1 kilo from him  , he has another 3 lots on auction i was thinking of buying, i might give them a miss now.



The question is:
Would you sell something under its value? Would you sell 2g of gold for price of one? (not really important in what state that gold is).
Auctions for escrap or milspec are aimed to get true value of items for sale. The only gold you may get cheaper was while ago, with auctions for lots of plated jewelry or vintage gold watches. If somebody says something about refining gold you can bet you are not getting items cheaper.


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## micronationcreation

surely the price of scrap should reflect the amount of work and materials used to reclaim the pms?


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## patnor1011

micronationcreation said:


> surely the price of scrap should reflect the amount of work and materials used to reclaim the pms?



Why? 

So if you will be selling 300 ram sticks where there might be pound of fingers with potential yield 2g are you going to sell that for price of 2g minus time spend cutting fingers, say about 1 liter of hydrochloric, preroxide, filters and gas? 

Buyer buy for price where he may get profit and seller is doing essentially the same. Maximizing his profit too. Why would he be not doing so?


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## micronationcreation

> (not really important in what state that gold is).



so if two different sellers are selling 1 gram of gold, first seller has a 1 gram gold button, and the second seller has 1 gram of gold dust in a bucket of sand, they should get the same price?


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## trashmaster

100% NO;


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## patnor1011

100% YES
If he is 100% sure that there is 1g inside why on earth he will sell that for less?
Try to look on problem from sellers perspective. Would you sell that bucket for less? You will rather process that and maximize your profit. 
Whatever "discount" you get is sellers loss and your gain and vice versa. It is your investment to have that refined or processed. You have to decide if it is worth or not. If he has no problem to sell for price he is selling he has no need to lower price. Offer and demand. That is called Capitalism. We dont live in Cuba where you are entitled to something. If deal is not good for you pass it on, somebody will buy or seller drop price. 

He is still selling gold, even if it is in bucket. When you buy 1g bullion you pay hefty premium for buying product in some shape or form, stamped etc... 
Sometimes you buy it with "discount" that depend on seller circumstances - he may be hard pressed for cash, ...........
Try to argue with cash4gold type business. Try to argument with them that their gold they buy for 40-50% of spot need to be processed and you will pay them 80% for that. They sure will understand your point and maybe will sell that to you for even 75%. :twisted: 
In case of refinery you can say that processing will cost 5% or more of seller product but then dont forget they are not coming to you - you have bucket of sand, you are going to refinery so you accept their prices or fees. In case of bucket of sand you are buyer so you either accept price or not. Capitalism.


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## macfixer01

Hi All,
This seems like a good thread to ask my question in. I saw the following Ebay auction last night:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160564009004

I emailed the seller to confirm it's really 16 bags as pictured, not 8 bags as the text says. However the weight is correct, just under 2 pounds. Ok so 1600 new gold pins made by Hughes back in 1968, they must be worth a fortune right? So I looked up the part number MP16Y16C300 on Google and found this page:

http://www.wbparts.com/rfq/5999-00-891-2561.html

According to the chart at the bottom of that page each pin contains only .005 Grains of gold. So .005 multiplied by .065 (Grams per Grain) means each pin only contains .000325 Grams of gold correct? That result multiplied by 1600 pins means there is only 0.52 Grams of gold in the whole lot, or only about $24.00 to be had for $150.00 spent on the pins. Am I missing something here?

I also considered the details I found may be for pins made in recent years with thinner plating, but it really gives no indication. Does anyone know? The government is so hung up on part specifications and documentation. Would contemporary manufacturers be allowed to use the same part number if the parts changed significantly in content or construction from the original specifications?

Thanks,
macfixer01


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## patnor1011

Ebay translator.
1. Millspec - stay away
2. No returns - stay away
That works for me anyway. It saved me a lot of euros and headache.
And this one again confirms what I have stated before. Dont expect seller to go under price when he is selling something. Exact opposite is more common.


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## Militoy

A few comments - 

I work almost daily with gold-plated military connector pins - and have for the past 35 years or so. So I've had quite a bit of exposure to gold-plated pins, and the specifications describing them. I have made a habit over those years to scrounge or to buy at low cost any gold scrap I see being disposed of. Often - that scrap has been free for the taking - as it has been destined for the dumpster, or the e-waste bin - where my employer has to pay for disposal. I've sold quite a good amount to refiners - and now I choose to do the refining myself - just because I can, and it's interesting. I wouldn't totally dismiss the value of the pins until at least after I had done a bit more digging. WB Parts is one of many surplus / discontinued military parts "headhunters" - and I wouldn't take the ".005 grains" as gospel until I had read the actual specification myself. Parts headhunters are notorious for misinterpreting or mis-stating specs. The weight requirement might be accurate - or it might actually be .005 grams. The plating in mil specs is typically specified as a specific alloy and hardness, at a minimum thickness requirement. In the 70's, plating technology wasn't up to today's standards - and gold was fairly cheap compared to the price of a military connector (remember the $300 toilet seat?). I would not be surprised to find that the plating thickness on some pins exceeded the minimum by 2:1; or even 5:1. The bottom line is - do your homework all the way - not everything you read on the internet is accurate. If you are able to source a small sample to process, take careful weight measurements at every step of your refining - and test for gold before you dispose of any waste chemicals. After you have run a test batch, you will be able to determine the actual value of the raw material to you - considering all labor, shipping and chemical costs.


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## Anonymous

Militoy said:


> Parts headhunters are notorious for misinterpreting or mis-stating specs.


This would be true if the information mac found stated that the plating was thicker.The information he found is the opposite of what you are saying that they are notorious for.


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## patnor1011

Another thing discussed here before is misinterpretation of price of gold or technology. Not many things drastically changed in plating industry or plating standards. Gold was not cheap. Maybe in middle ages in Spain when they got ships full from colonies or during gold rush in some places where another things became very expensive due to scarcity but certainly not when comparing 70` with todays price of gold. As one of our moderators who was doing business in those times said You could get fine suit for 1oz of gold which is true today. You cant buy fine suit for 150-300$. 
Gold was worth pretty much the same as it is today. Today's problem or price of gold is that $ is going downhill fast.


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## goldsilverpro

Militoy said:


> A few comments -
> 
> I work almost daily with gold-plated military connector pins - and have for the past 35 years or so. So I've had quite a bit of exposure to gold-plated pins, and the specifications describing them. I have made a habit over those years to scrounge or to buy at low cost any gold scrap I see being disposed of. Often - that scrap has been free for the taking - as it has been destined for the dumpster, or the e-waste bin - where my employer has to pay for disposal. I've sold quite a good amount to refiners - and now I choose to do the refining myself - just because I can, and it's interesting. I wouldn't totally dismiss the value of the pins until at least after I had done a bit more digging. WB Parts is one of many surplus / discontinued military parts "headhunters" - and I wouldn't take the ".005 grains" as gospel until I had read the actual specification myself. Parts headhunters are notorious for misinterpreting or mis-stating specs. The weight requirement might be accurate - or it might actually be .005 grams. The plating in mil specs is typically specified as a specific alloy and hardness, at a minimum thickness requirement. In the 70's, plating technology wasn't up to today's standards - and gold was fairly cheap compared to the price of a military connector (remember the $300 toilet seat?). I would not be surprised to find that the plating thickness on some pins exceeded the minimum by 2:1; or even 5:1. The bottom line is - do your homework all the way - not everything you read on the internet is accurate. If you are able to source a small sample to process, take careful weight measurements at every step of your refining - and test for gold before you dispose of any waste chemicals. After you have run a test batch, you will be able to determine the actual value of the raw material to you - considering all labor, shipping and chemical costs.



The gold plating thickness for vital areas, such as wear surfaces (pins, fingers, etc.) and parts that must be heated for die attach (IC packages, etc.), was the same then as it is today. What has changed is that many non-vital areas (portion of the pin that does not make contact, e.g.) are plated thinner (using spot or zone plating equipment, e.g.) or not gold plated at all. The plating baths used then are about the same as those used today, with very little advancement in technology. Gold is gold and it has always taken about 30 micro" to protect a wear surface. Gold has never been cheap and any plater that put on 2 to 5 times more gold than was needed would soon go broke, even when gold was at $42. Besides the added gold costs, it would take 2 to 5 times longer to plate and they would only be able to get 1/2 to 1/5 as much production.

A long time ago, in the 30s, 40s, and 50s, a lot of items were plated heavily. For example, we once processed some 40s pins that ran 1 oz/pound. At that time, gold was plated from inferior alkaline cyanide baths and such things as silver or copper were used as an underlayer. They didn't know exactly how much gold thickness was necessary for various applications, so a lot of stuff was overplated (especially during WWII). When the superior acid baths (still used today) were developed in the late 50s, early 60s, and they started using nickel as an underplate, they were able to get a handle on how much was really needed for various applications. Those figures are about the same today.

In certain military applications, such as when the parts will be around salt water, the plating was, and is, much thicker than the norm. This is because all gold plating is porous and the porosity doesn't approach zero until the thickness is greater than about 100 micro". I once got sucked into processing the electronics from a scrapped out Navy submarine, probably made in the 70s. Gold plating was everywhere and I expected it to be thick due to the application. However, it was very thin, difficult to process, and I lost money on it. With military stuff, you never know without a bunch of intelligent sampling and assays. In my experience, it can be all over the map.

To back all this up, let me add that, in the late 60s, early 70s, I was the Senior Chemist for the world's largest supplier of PM plating systems and solutions (Sel-Rex, West coast plant). Also, in the mid 70s, I owned 2 hi-tech gold plating shops, with customers such as Intel and AMD.

Gold has always been valuable and it has never been wasted intentionally. Never! 

Chris


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## Anonymous

goldsilverpro said:


> Gold has always been valuable and it has never been wasted intentionally. Never!


I used to dispose of a lot of material because of this comment.Material that had served no purpose being plated with gold.I know now to never trust this comment,as I have found much material that was plated when there was no rhyme or reason for it to be.One of the highest yields I have ever come across(other than jewelry),was military com-port connector shells.There was no reason for the surrounding shell to be plated,yet the manufaturer placed an incredible amount of gold on it.
No offense chris,but I have disproven this comment several times.It is always a human that decides where the gold goes,and humans make mistakes.


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## goldsilverpro

mic said:


> goldsilverpro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gold has always been valuable and it has never been wasted intentionally. Never!
> 
> 
> 
> I used to dispose of a lot of material because of this comment.Material that had served no purpose being plated with gold.I know now to never trust this comment,as I have found much material that was plated when there was no rhyme or reason for it to be.One of the highest yields I have ever come across(other than jewelry),was military com-port connector shells.There was no reason for the surrounding shell to be plated,yet the manufaturer placed an incredible amount of gold on it.
> No offense chris,but I have disproven this comment several times.It is always a human that decides where the gold goes,and humans make mistakes.
Click to expand...


mic,

Except for your disagreement about my statement, I agree with everything you said. I have also seen a lot of things that made me scratch my head and ask why. My point was made to show that they don't just indiscriminately plate things with a bunch of extra gold. When they do plate thick, they do so because of what they believe to be good technical reasons.

I think you totally misunderstood my point. Please note that I HAD to use the term, "intentionally", and I stand by my statement. The decision on what to plate and how thick to plate it is made by an individual (usually the design engineer) or a committee and, because there is subjectivity in these decisions, plating will vary from company to company or even from part to part within the same company. There are no absolute rules, especially in commercial electronics. Military plating is more strict but I would bet a lot of it is still done outside the box. When all is said and done, I doubt if any of these people thought they were wasting gold, no matter what they plated or how thick they plated it.


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## Anonymous

I am sorry chris.You know I did not mean any disrespect by what I posted.I will follow this up this afternoon when I get home.


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## Anonymous

Ok chris I just got home.
I have read your entire post and agree with you.I used the comment "intentionally" out of the context in which you had intended it.I am sorry again.


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