# Hang on to your Gold



## Iggy-poo (Jan 6, 2018)

https://www.rt.com/business/415131-gold-prices-rise-2018/

"According to Claudio Grass, of Precious Metal Advisory Switzerland, the total trading volume in the London Over-the-Counter (OTC) gold market is estimated at the equivalent of 1.5 million tons of gold. Only 180,000 tons of gold have actually been mined up to today."


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## anachronism (Jan 6, 2018)

I said this two years ago on here with exactly the same reasoning and got laughed at 8) 8)


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## Iggy-poo (Jan 6, 2018)

I remember. That's why I brought it up. 8) 8)


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## nickvc (Jan 6, 2018)

If you look how long it’s taken national banks to return gold to other national banks you can see there is a big problem in the system somewhere, if all the holders of paper gold insisted on physical delivery of actual metal it would be very very interesting to see how the banks would respond.... :shock:


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## snoman701 (Jan 6, 2018)

nickvc said:


> If you look how long it’s taken national banks to return gold to other national banks you can see there is a big problem in the system somewhere, if all the holders of paper gold insisted on physical delivery of actual metal it would be very very interesting to see how the banks would respond.... :shock:



Will it even take that much. I'm curious what would happen if simply one big refinery offering pool accounts were to fold. Depending on the refinery, the insurance MAY get everyone at that refinery paid, but I think once word got out, it would then be a house of cards on pool accounts.

But heck, refineries probably have greater physical accountability requirements than national banks do. 

I have very little understanding of the economy...and it's this goofy thing, the more I educate myself, the less I understand it, or at least understand how it's still kicking.


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## nickvc (Jan 6, 2018)

snoman701 said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> > If you look how long it’s taken national banks to return gold to other national banks you can see there is a big problem in the system somewhere, if all the holders of paper gold insisted on physical delivery of actual metal it would be very very interesting to see how the banks would respond.... :shock:
> ...




Typical banking practices... smoke and mirrors :evil: 
And guess who will have to pay to bail them out... again :shock: 
I think all people involved in any new or slightly dodgy schemes, read as most banking money making schemes, should have their bonuses held for 5 years so if it all collapses they lose out not just walk away with a fat bank account. They get well paid so it should be bareable for them.


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## anachronism (Jan 6, 2018)

Iggy-poo said:


> I remember. That's why I brought it up. 8) 8)



Thanks I'm touched mate. Nice to know 8)


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## cosmetal (Apr 7, 2018)

And so it continues . . . from Mining.com:

*"Investors are piling into bullion, taking holdings in all such funds tracked by Bloomberg to 73.2 million ounces, the highest in almost five years."*

James


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## cosmetal (Apr 7, 2018)

snoman701 said:


> nickvc said:
> 
> 
> > If you look how long it’s taken national banks to return gold to other national banks you can see there is a big problem in the system somewhere, if all the holders of paper gold insisted on physical delivery of actual metal it would be very very interesting to see how the banks would respond.... :shock:
> ...




It's still "kicking" because the "kickers" are still getting commissions and bonuses :evil: .

James


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## Palladium (Apr 7, 2018)

It's still kicking because they have a printing press and a whole lot of paper!


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## jimdoc (Apr 7, 2018)

Palladium said:


> It's still kicking because they have a printing press and a whole lot of paper!



I don't think they bother with the presses and paper any more, I think it is more like adding lots of zeros at the end of their balance.


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## artart47 (Apr 7, 2018)

Hi my Friends!
Lets say two years ago I took the warning and started stockpiling the gold that I produced. I'd have a amount of gold buttons.
I have a farm house that was bought (5/8ths) down payment form the gold I recovered in two years.
(about 3/8ths is a (60month land contract) I've made payments 2-48 with the profit from turning my gold and purchasing material to recover and refine. No money from my regular work.
In my opinion! It"'s much better than sitting here with a box full of buttons waiting for this big jump in price to come. Been watching gold and silver for 40 years and don't see the logic.
Art.


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## silversaddle1 (Apr 7, 2018)

artart47 said:


> Hi my Friends!
> Lets say two years ago I took the warning and started stockpiling the gold that I produced. I'd have a amount of gold buttons.
> I have a farm house that was bought (5/8ths) down payment form the gold I recovered in two years.
> (about 3/8ths is a (60month land contract) I've made payments 2-48 with the profit from turning my gold and purchasing material to recover and refine. No money from my regular work.
> ...



Best way to invest is real estate. Best thing ever is to have your property paid off, debt free. When we started this recycling business 28 years ago, my wife and I both had full time jobs and decided that all profits would go towards the house payment. Nothing feels better than making that last payment 13 years early.


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## anachronism (Apr 7, 2018)

silversaddle1 said:


> artart47 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi my Friends!
> ...



No there's a difference. Having your own home paid off is not an investment that's security. Your own home doesn't make you any money at all unless you downsize in later life and spend the excess money. A second property would be an investment. What you have done is given yourself security which is admirable but I repeat not an investment.


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## silversaddle1 (Apr 7, 2018)

anachronism said:


> silversaddle1 said:
> 
> 
> > artart47 said:
> ...



Sorry, but in this case you are incorrect. Since my whole scrap business is located and ran off the property my home sits on, it's a money maker for us.


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## FrugalRefiner (Apr 7, 2018)

silversaddle1 said:


> anachronism said:
> 
> 
> > silversaddle1 said:
> ...


My wife and I paid off our mortgage before we started flipping houses. We paid $105K for it, and when we started flipping we were able to secure a $135K home equity line of credit against it, which we used to buy and rehab the houses. You don't necessarily have to sell a house to leverage the increase in value.

Whether it's the _best_ way to invest depends on the economics at the time.

Dave


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## anachronism (Apr 7, 2018)

Yes Dave. You used the equity to leverage another investment. As such you realised an asset and used that asset to add another investment to your "portfolio."

I'd agree that if Scott used money from his house to do that and make more money then the same would apply, but paying off one's mortgage and being rent free in your own home isn't property investment it's (and wisely so) security.

Everyone has a different risk profile. Some are more comfortable with risks that others would find unacceptable. Neither is wrong and people tend to live their lives according to their perception of risk. Like Dave I would leverage an asset to make more money - in fact I do it to buy stock for my refining business because the more I buy the more I make and that's a risk I am comfortable with. That's using my house as an investment in my eyes, and oddly enough Dave and I share a view on this.

But heck Scott - your view is your view. We're all entitled to our opinions and every one is as valid as the others.


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## anachronism (Apr 7, 2018)

Actually to add meat to the bones of the post I just made because it's something close to my heart. If I leave $300,000 in my property it might grow at 3% per annum which is $9,000 per year. By using it to buy product I can make $300,000 in the first year alone therefore putting myself in the situation where at the end of the first year I can either pay it back or invest $600,000 in the second year, and so on and so forth. That's an easy choice for me.

Regards

Jon


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## torch01 (Nov 6, 2019)

In my opinion gold and other precious metals are not a good investment. Maybe as a small percentage of your net worth as a hedge against disaster but nothing beyond that. You are much better off turning the gold into cash and using that cash for investments that will return 10 percent to 1000 percent per year or more. I have purchased pallets of items at business or industrial auctions that returned unbelievable profits.


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## Johnny5 (Nov 6, 2019)

torch01 said:


> In my opinion gold and other precious metals are not a good investment. Maybe as a small percentage of your net worth as a hedge against disaster but nothing beyond that. You are much better off turning the gold into cash and using that cash for investments that will return 10 percent to 1000 percent per year or more. I have purchased pallets of items at business or industrial auctions that returned unbelievable profits.



Tell that to everyone who sold their gold pre-2005.
Investing in gold (escrap and jewelry) has been extremely lucrative to myself and many others on here. 
But I could be wrong.


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## torch01 (Nov 7, 2019)

Johnny: What I am talking about is holding on to metals long term to capture the increase in price over time. I think there are a lot of other places to put your money that will offer a better average annual return. Look at the average annual return for gold bullion bought in, let's say 1960. I haven't looked at numbers like that in a long time but I think they would be rather low. Of course I am not talking about a situation where somebody is involved in metals and have found a situation where they are turning over their inventory and making a profit on a frequent basis. Wayne.


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## rickzeien (Nov 7, 2019)

"For example, over a 45-year period gold has outperformed stocks and bonds, while over a 30-year period, stocks and bonds have outperformed gold and over a 15-year period, gold has outperformed stocks and bonds"

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020915/has-gold-been-good-investment-over-long-term.asp

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Johnny5 (Nov 7, 2019)

While I agree with both of your replies, gold (bullion) would be the only safe investment, albeit the returns would be small, over a long period of time.


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## metatp (Nov 7, 2019)

It's better than cash. It is also less risky than most investments that give large returns. That is why I think there are some countries hoarding gold to hedge against fiat paper. Stock can go to zero if the economy tanks, but gold and other assets would have some value.


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## Lou (Nov 7, 2019)

Unlike paper, it does not burn.

Unlike digital currency, it can’t be erased, or keys lost.

Unlike real estate, it is portable.

Everyone knows what it is, from the Midwest to Cambodia.


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## Johnny5 (Nov 7, 2019)

metatp said:


> It's better than cash. It is also less risky than most investments that give large returns. That is why I think there are some countries hoarding gold to hedge against fiat paper. Stock can go to zero if the economy tanks, but gold and other assets would have some value.





Lou said:


> Unlike paper, it does not burn.
> 
> Unlike digital currency, it can’t be erased, or keys lost.
> 
> ...


I really wish Jean would incorporate a "like" button on replies. But maybe that would give the forum more of an immature social media complex.
Either way, Metatp, Lou, excellent points. 
I know this is kicking a dead horse, but metallic gold is the one and only universal currency on virtually every land on the planet. It's been worshipped, revered, traded, stolen, killed for, and died for. In ancient cultures it's been used in the most barbaric rituals imaginable, such as removing parts of people's skulls and applying sheets of it to their brains, then replacing the removed pieces of skulls, all of this being performed while the individual is awake. Every religious book on Earth makes mention of it countless times. I could go on for hours, but it's time to go eat lunch.


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## butcher (Nov 7, 2019)

What currency has survived history? 

The yearly wages that a Roman soldier was paid in gold, and the bread he could feed his family with on that gold, today he could buy the same amount of bread today to feed his family for this year.

What country's currency has been so consistent even in the hard times?
What currency has been recognized throughout man's history?

What country is there that does not hold gold or would like to hold it in their vaults?

These metals not only hold value because they are recognized by all as means of trade, and as a show of wealth as in gold jewelry or a platinum-plated car but also because of their importance in industrial use, chemical properties that we call these metals Nobel.

Gold, when it was found by the first man, he knew he had found something valuable, and useful, something he could trade for bread, use as decoration and show of his importance, and was also useful in making tools, ever since then, throughout history man has been fighting to get his hands on these metals, is that gold nugget the caveman found any less valuable today? His greatest grandson today could feed his family on with that same gold nugget.

I will keep my gold buried, it is not an investment for me, it is security.
I know it will always hold value and will buy bread no matter what the future holds.

Gold can be used as investments just like a stock or other commodities, but just like any of those, it is not without risk.

Gold is useful as a currency, as a commodity for trade, to back a country's wealth, a very industrial important commodity, important for its chemical properties, and uses in medicines, it will never be worthless like all of the other currency's used throughout the history of man.


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## metatp (Nov 7, 2019)

It can also be used be used as an asset to borrow more if you really wanted to.


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## Johnny5 (Nov 7, 2019)

Excellent thorough post Butcher.
Johnny


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## butcher (Nov 8, 2019)

The way my mind rambles on and then me trying to express it in print It is a wonder anyone could understand any of it.


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## kurtak (Nov 8, 2019)

Lou said:


> Unlike paper, it does not burn.
> 
> Unlike digital currency, it can’t be erased, or keys lost.
> 
> ...



SPOT ON :!: 

A few months ago my landlords house just burned down

He had $30,000 cash in his safe & it turned to carbon - he had no way to "prove" he had $30,000 in his safe so he "lost" it

My landlords wife also had a large amount gold & silver jewelry in the house &/or safe --- it all melted down so was not lost --- the other day when I paid my rent they asked me if I could refine it for them :mrgreen: 

A month ago my bank got "hacked" & people with accounts at that bank (including me) had their debit cards used by the hacker --- I was lucky that my account was debited for only $1.89 before the bank fraud department caught it & canceled my debit card --- I had to get a new debit card

I have enough gold & silver in my personal stash that I can survive most any down turn &/or loss should down turn or loss happen

Its REAL & I hold it & its value will not be lost when lies & B.S. fails other holdings

Example; - in 2008 when lies & B.S. holding failed MANY - gold & silver treated me VERY well :mrgreen: 

Kurt


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## anachronism (Nov 8, 2019)

True Kurt

Metals are good as part of a portfolio. Everything has its upsides and downsides but you can always get cash right away for gold. Anywhere in the world.


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## stella polaris (Nov 9, 2019)

Lou said:


> Unlike paper, it does not burn.
> 
> Unlike digital currency, it can’t be erased, or keys lost.
> 
> ...



+ What you do not have in your pocket you do not have at all when the poo hits the fan.


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## Johnny5 (Nov 9, 2019)

stella polaris said:


> Lou said:
> 
> 
> > Unlike paper, it does not burn.
> ...



Not only is your comment extremely illogical, it's not true.


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## stella polaris (Nov 9, 2019)

Johnny5 said:


> stella polaris said:
> 
> 
> > Lou said:
> ...



In what way? Sure you can dig it down in the basement but if you put it in the bank its out of your control


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## FrugalRefiner (Nov 9, 2019)

Johnny5 said:


> stella polaris said:
> 
> 
> > + What you do not have in your pocket you do not have at all when the poo hits the fan.
> ...


I assumed his use of "in your pocket" was figurative, meaning in your possession.

Dave


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## Johnny5 (Nov 9, 2019)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Johnny5 said:
> 
> 
> > stella polaris said:
> ...



I was not thinking that way. Given the discussion was, gold versus cash, I took his comment to mean cash in your pocket.


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## stella polaris (Nov 10, 2019)

Johnny5 said:


> FrugalRefiner said:
> 
> 
> > Johnny5 said:
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Np. No harm to me.

Perhaps you are not saying so in US. In Sweden we have an old saying: To have silver in the pocket. Meaning you are solid and stand well. 

I always have a silver coin in the pocket. Then I actually have money in the pocket and not only currency as most people.


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## stella polaris (Nov 10, 2019)

butcher said:


> What country is there that does not hold gold or would like to hold it in their vaults?



Norway!

Does not have any gold. All oil money invested in the so called Oil Fund. Mostly stocks. They have a *LOT* in that fund. They sold of the little gold they had. It was placed in England so they had no real control over it anyway. But if there would be a global economic crisis, with crashed stock market, they will stand with their pants down.

With no reserves in resources and among the absolutly most debt burden people in the world they are not so solid as it looks at first glance. Sweden is the same. We have more personal debt than an Indian debt slave. If a crisis hits the house prices crashes, the currency inflation go viral and we have no gold/PM saved. Those that put all in investments can lose it all in a mater of days.

In the bitter end its all about resources. Gold is the most durable of all resources. If you do not hold it in your hand do not count on it.

The problem today, as i see it, is that most people can not differ between money and currency. Even more frightning, they can not differ between resources and currency. Even many economists can not tell the diffrence. Most of the economists do not even know what the word Economy means. Ask if you meet one

House keeping of resources is something we have forgotten.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 10, 2019)

Regarding the sale of the Norwegian Gold, I think it was actually kept in Fort Knox or somewhere in the US.
It was smuggled from Norway to England during the beginning of the WW2.
But anyways, it was sold in the 80s or 90s when the gold was at its lowest in decades.
It was of course a political decision and as such stands beyond reasoning as always ;-)


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## butcher (Nov 10, 2019)

Thank you stella polaris.

I learn something new every day.
Some days (like again today) I learned I was wrong in what I had been thinking.
That is a good thing, now I know better.
The more times I learn that I am wrong -- the more I learn what is right and the more educated I become on the subject.
The more educated I get on the subject, the more I find out how much I did not know before, and begin to see how much more I still do not know, and how much more there is still out there for me to learn.
It is once I learn that I did not know, or that I was wrong in what I thought, that now my mind is open so that I can begin to learn better...


When I think of Sweden, images of large castle-like banks with large dark rooms stacked full of gold bars and gold coins comes to my mind.

It is hard for me to imagine a swiss bank without seeing gold.
But then again I have very little knowledge about Switzerland or their banks.
Just like it would be hard for me to imagine Fort Knox without stacks of gold bars. Who knows, I could also be wrong about there being gold in Fort Knox vaults, they could just have large dark empty rooms for all I know.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 10, 2019)

If I remember correctly after some research a few weeks ago. 
The first paper money linked to metal in a bank, was made in Sweden around 1650 sometime.
Big merchants wrote a a letter declaring that this letter was linked to a certain amount of metal in this and this merchants posession.
And the trading community in this city (Stockholm?) accepted these letters as a method of payment.
This spread fast, due to the ease of transport of paper, comparing to the heavy *silver* for the most part.


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## butcher (Nov 10, 2019)

And today a digital bank card or credit card is lighter and much easier to carry than the heavy gold.

It is getting to where paper money and coins are becoming obsolete, or the metals in our coins are becoming more valuable than the face values of the coin itself.

It has happened before, where the paper that the money was printed on was worth more used as toilet paper that it held value to buy bread with.


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## AshesoftheUniverse (Nov 10, 2019)

Yggdrasil said:


> If I remember correctly after some research a few weeks ago.
> The first paper money linked to metal in a bank, was made in Sweden around 1650 sometime.
> Big merchants wrote a a letter declaring that this letter was linked to a certain amount of metal in this and this merchants posession.
> And the trading community in this city (Stockholm?) accepted these letters as a method of payment.
> This spread fast, due to the ease of transport of paper, comparing to the heavy *silver* for the most part.


Actually, the Knights Templar developed the letter of Credit, so that pilgrims going to the Holy Land were able to convert it back into cash once they arrived at their destination. They also used a form of encryption to prevent the forging of the instrument by others. The are the originators of the modern banking system. Oh, yes, they got to keep the original deposit if you were somehow killed on the way. This goes back to around 1200 ce.


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## rickzeien (Nov 10, 2019)

TemplarCoin the original cryptocurrency.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## AshesoftheUniverse (Nov 10, 2019)

butcher said:


> And today a digital bank card or credit card is lighter and much easier to carry than the heavy gold.
> 
> It is getting to where paper money and coins are becoming obsolete, or the metals in our coins are becoming more valuable than the face values of the coin itself.
> 
> It has happened before, where the paper that the money was printed on was worth more used as toilet paper that it held value to buy bread with.


Before you use your fiat currency as toilet paper, be sure to launder it first, You never know where it has been.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 11, 2019)

That is correct AshesoftheUniverse


> Actually, the Knights Templar developed the letter of Credit, so that pilgrims going to the Holy Land were able to convert it back into cash once they arrived at their destination. They also used a form of encryption to prevent the forging of the instrument by others. The are the originators of the modern banking system. Oh, yes, they got to keep the original deposit if you were somehow killed on the way. This goes back to around 1200 ce.


The first paper money dates back to about year 900 in China. Not much used since it could not be traded, it was more like a bank statement.
The thing that was a first in Sweden, was that it was used as money/currency today, and anyone holding the letter could use it anywhere (at least in that city) for trade.
This was of course when paper was more expensive and hard to come by than today, so the risk of copying it was practically not there.
Besides that, I guess everyone knew eachother, in some respect anyway ;-)


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## AshesoftheUniverse (Nov 11, 2019)

rickzeien said:


> TemplarCoin the original cryptocurrency.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Somewhere, I have a picture of a Templar coin. I will try to locate it. It shows two knights riding a horse. They took a vow of poverty and couldn't afford a horse for everyone.
Unlike the 'Knights' of today, who likely have their chauffeur drive them around, and strut around their lodges like pimped-out pussn'boots.


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## stella polaris (Nov 11, 2019)

> Before you use your fiat currency as toilet paper, be sure to launder it first, You never know where it has been.



Perhaps one day its economical to recover cocaine from old fiat bills.


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## stella polaris (Nov 11, 2019)

Yggdrasil said:


> If I remember correctly after some research a few weeks ago.
> The first paper money linked to metal in a bank, was made in Sweden around 1650 sometime.
> Big merchants wrote a a letter declaring that this letter was linked to a certain amount of metal in this and this merchants posession.
> And the trading community in this city (Stockholm?) accepted these letters as a method of payment.
> This spread fast, due to the ease of transport of paper, comparing to the heavy *silver* for the most part.



If I not remember wrong. It was also one of the first cases were they "blanked" and issued papers with no metal behind.


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## AshesoftheUniverse (Nov 11, 2019)

Before you use your fiat currency as toilet paper, be sure to launder it first, You never know where it has been.
[/quote]

Perhaps one day its economical to recover cocaine from old fiat bills. 
[/quote]
I'm not concerned so much about the Cocaine as the sweaty behinds it was nestled up against.


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## stella polaris (Nov 11, 2019)

@ Butcher

At a deeper look there is no logic in gold reserves in Europe. After wwII all gold should be deposit in UK or US "to save it from the evil communist"

All countries have had problem getting it back. France and De Gaulle were first, sending a warship to US in order to get it back.
The Germans were showed 2 or 3 bars when they wanted to make a control of their gold. Norway sold their.

If all gold is in the hands of UK/US the European states have little reserves if a crisis. A kind of blackmail so to say. It actually seems like we are not allowed to have large possessions of gold, other PM and strategic metals.

In Sweden we have V.A.T 25% on PM bars and PM coins making it less attractive as a saving compared to stocks and banks. In Norway it is V.A.T on bars but not on coins. This fact actually makes scrap even more valuable since it is a substitute for Banks, stocks and V.A.T pressured gold.

We are rich on the paper but if you make a simulated economic likvidation of the countries the picture change drastic. Then the population become poorer than the average African. We have only debts and no reserves.

Now they are working hard to make the electronic currency the one and the only. The day that happends we will been totally in the hand of the banks. Gold will then bee some ting very attractive. But if you then can by gold you have to pay V.A.T and as a end consumer you can not get the V.A.T back.

Stockpiling of resources is the safest way too meet a unknown future. Why is it not promoted?


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## g_axelsson (Nov 11, 2019)

I don't think there is vat on valid coins, only older demonetized ones. (In Sweden)

For example it's no vat on US or Canadian gold dollars, but there's vat on French Francs or German Mark.

Göran


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## snoman701 (Nov 11, 2019)

> ...Dragons steal gold and jewels...wherever they can find them; and they guard their plunder as long as they live...and never enjoy a brass ring of it



And that sums up my thoughts on most wealth. I'm comfortable...I could be more comfortable, but I have no interest in guarding a plunder.


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## stella polaris (Nov 11, 2019)

g_axelsson said:


> I don't think there is vat on valid coins, only older demonetized ones. (In Sweden)
> 
> For example it's no vat on US or Canadian gold dollars, but there's vat on French Francs or German Mark.
> 
> Göran



Thx Göran.
It seems I missed some ting. They seems dropped the V.A.T om gold coins but not on Silver coins

At Tavex Sweden the price of today for a Maple leaf 1 oz silver is 251 sek in Sweden. In Tavex Norway the same coin cost 184 nok.

In Sweden Maple leaf 1 oz gold 14 848 sek and in Norway 14031 nok.

Actually many Sweds buy silver coins when they are in Norway. Some even smuggle them to Sweden and make a profit when selling them there..


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## anachronism (Nov 11, 2019)

Some countries dropped the VAT on gold bullion and gold currency because of the number of pyramid scams going on. 

The same thing has happened with IT processors and RAM shipments over a certain currency value too.


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## stella polaris (Nov 11, 2019)

Buy the way. Tavex selling 50 trillion Zimbawe dollar banknotes for those wanting to invest in fiat currency.  

https://tavex.se/product/presentask/


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## stella polaris (Nov 11, 2019)

anachronism said:


> Some countries dropped the VAT on gold bullion and gold currency because of the number of pyramid scams going on.
> 
> The same thing has happened with IT processors and RAM shipments over a certain currency value too.



Had totally missed it. Must have happend when i lived broad.

I know it was a lot of scams claming back V.A.T on gold "exported". But what type of pyramid scams was it?


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## AshesoftheUniverse (Nov 11, 2019)

Stella Polaris said:


> Stockpiling of resources is the safest way too meet a unknown future. Why is it not promoted?
> Top



I think preppers are keeping the World Economy going. Everyone is preparing their own hidey-hole.
China is especially the beneficiary. Most camping and Survival gear is made there.


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## butcher (Nov 11, 2019)

Notice how china and India value gold.

Gold is limited, we only have so much of it available and so many would like to own it, and besides its usefulness in industry and jewelry, it is always going to hold some value, if nothing else as a doorstop, or paperweight until we need bread. 

So there will always be someone who would like to have it.

If we divided all of the gold in the world between every person in the world they would each have less gold than the weight of some coin that was minted in gold, if a man held an ounce of gold he would be considered very rich among that population.

Buring an ounce of gold in the ground for some future hard time, for your future, maybe a silly idea or it may not be as foolish as it sounds, only you can make that decision.


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## stella polaris (Nov 12, 2019)

butcher said:


> Notice how china and India value gold.



The whole Asia is in to gold by tradition. Middle East as well. The gold around the arms and necks on a female is not only decoration. Its often given to them, by tradition, as a security if something would happend. I have wondered many times how much gold the females of Asia and Midde East carry.

The price for gold items are lower in these countries than in West. In West you pay much more than the metal value. In Thailand for example you can even change items, to an other design, for a low fee.

In West we "normal" people now days have a diffrent approach to gold. Its glamour not security. 


A little gold anekdote from my life

Once i stood looking at gold items in a middle East country. Two adult female from a Westen country stood in the same shop. I overheard following conversation

- Its really cheap here
- Yeah. Its fake gold. You can not trust these people
- Better not buying here then
- No, wait until we come home

I stood in a tax free shop at Abu Dabi international airport. :lol:


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## anachronism (Nov 12, 2019)

Not strictly true. Edit- yes it's true!! I misread your post. 

The Chinese culture from the bottom upwards values gold as an investment. They all like to keep gold in their homes. 

The analogy of the women at the airport just points to the fact that they were dumb. 8) 8) 8)


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## stella polaris (Nov 12, 2019)

anachronism said:


> The Chinese culture from the bottom upwards values gold as an investment. They all like to keep gold in their homes.



They also avoid going into debt. Here the greater family comes in. They put up the money needed for the just married to buy an apartment and similar basic investments.

Then think that the over sea Chinese have a total economy equal to US. They are strong and stand steady


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## butcher (Nov 12, 2019)

Most Americans are in debt, they may have a new car, a house... And appear to be doing well.
When in reality they do not own any of it, for it is all held on credit. If they ever will own any of it they will be paying over and over for it in interest.

Now there are a few of those poor-looking Americans that drive around an old run-down pickup truck with bald tires and an over-load of firewood for sale, they may look poor but that ole boy owns a piece of land, and his own business, and has a little gold buried for just in case. He does not owe anyone a dime, and by my standards is a richer man than the average American who lives his life in debt to make himself feel richer.

Living on credit makes as much sense to me as relying on paper money to hold its value.
Not that credit cannot be used wisely, or that by itself it is a bad thing, it is that most people do not use it wisely, or do not know how to use it wisely.

Before you can save you have to get out of debt, put that credit card away, live by your means, save where you can, invest where you can.
If you can pan a little gold from the creek find you a safe spot and bury it for the future it will always be worth something even after all of our paper dollars have rotted away, or no longer hold any value.
Work on supporting yourself with your investments...

There is also the poorer class of working man who pays a much higher weekly rent to some slum landlord because he cannot afford a down payment on a monthly rental that would cost him much less, or he cannot afford the down on land and a home, he may get advances on his paycheck and paying interest on that, he may be going to the pawnshop to borrow money to be able to feed his family, and he pays a high interest on that.
He looks poor and he will stay poor as long as he is living on credit.


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## rickzeien (Nov 12, 2019)

butcher said:


> Most Americans are in debt, they may have a new car, a house... And appear to be doing well.
> When in reality they do not own any of it, for it is all held on credit. If they ever will own any of it they will be paying over and over for it in interest.
> 
> Now there are a few of those poor-looking Americans that drive around an old run-down pickup truck with bald tires and an over-load of firewood for sale, they may look poor but that ole boy owns a piece of land, and his own business, and has a little gold buried for just in case. He does not owe anyone a dime, and by my standards is a richer man than the average American who lives his life in debt to make himself feel richer.
> ...


Well said. Never finance anything that depreciates and very little that does. 

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## rickzeien (Nov 12, 2019)

* does appreciate*

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## anachronism (Nov 12, 2019)

I agree with your post completely Richard.

To add something that isn't very PC - until your guy at the bottom makes the hard choices and does what he needs to do to get out of needing credit he will never do so, and most do not, because it's easier to stay there. 

Jon


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## AshesoftheUniverse (Nov 12, 2019)

This Month, I bought a 6.3KW generator, cable adapter to run my TIG Welder off the generator and L14-30 extension cord. In addition, I am adding an automatic transfer switch between the house and electric meter, so that, if power goes out, I can get us back to running the essentials, such as fridge, heating, heat pump etc.
Every Month, I pay off my credit card.
Where do You think I'm going? Not to Disney World, I can assure you.


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## anachronism (Nov 12, 2019)

AshesoftheUniverse said:


> This Month, I bought a 6.3KW generator, cable adapter to run my TIG Welder off the generator and L14-30 extension cord. In addition, I am adding an automatic transfer switch between the house and electric meter, so that, if power goes out, I can get us back to running the essentials, such as fridge, heating, heat pump etc.
> Every Month, I pay off my credit card.
> Where do You think I'm going? Not to Disney World, I can assure you.



Exactly. Reinvesting pays dividends, it takes a while and isn't seen as a quick fix but after a while the benefits are enormous.


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## AshesoftheUniverse (Nov 12, 2019)

anachronism said:


> AshesoftheUniverse said:
> 
> 
> > This Month, I bought a 6.3KW generator, cable adapter to run my TIG Welder off the generator and L14-30 extension cord. In addition, I am adding an automatic transfer switch between the house and electric meter, so that, if power goes out, I can get us back to running the essentials, such as fridge, heating, heat pump etc.
> ...


First thing, I invest in my family, then I invest in myself. I buy new tools, increase my skills, and help others do the same.

I don't plan to be one of the Illiterati, with no resources or skills.
Joke: What is the difference between the village idiot and the wealthiest man in town?
The village idiot doesn't have any debt.


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## Jmk88 (Aug 8, 2020)

“I invest 90% of my money on women, fast cars (mainly BMW’s) and fine champagne... 

I waste the other 10%.”

It would make my day if someone recognised that quote.


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## kurtak (Aug 8, 2020)

Jmk88 said:


> “I invest 90% of my money on women, fast cars (mainly BMW’s) and fine champagne...
> 
> I waste the other 10%.”
> 
> It would make my day if someone recognised that quote.



I believe it was W. C. Fields that said that

Kurt


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## Jmk88 (Aug 8, 2020)

No...

George Best.

He’s an Irish football player. Regarded as one of the best ever.


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## kurtak (Aug 8, 2020)

Got it a bit wrong - what W. C Fields said -------

"I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted."

New York Mets pitcher Tug McGraw is the one that said -----------

""I spent 90% of the money I earned on women, Irish whiskey and fast cars...the other 10% I wasted"

Kurt


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## kurtak (Aug 8, 2020)

Jmk88 said:


> No...
> 
> George Best.
> 
> He’s an Irish football player. Regarded as one of the best ever.



yes George Best also said - "Ninety per cent went on drink, fast cars and women. I wasted the rest."

I believe (but could be wrong) W.C. Fields was the original --- George & Tug just put thier own twist to it

Kurt


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## rickzeien (Aug 8, 2020)

"I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted."

WC Fields



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## rickzeien (Aug 8, 2020)

Kurt beat me to it....

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## kurtak (Aug 8, 2020)

WC Fields was a funny guy - one of my favorites (in his comedy act) was when he would take a drink of water - then spit the water out & say --- "water - what are you doing - trying to poison me" (or something like that)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Kurt


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## Jmk88 (Aug 8, 2020)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

I never knew! Makes sense though... especially the Irish connection! 

Very interesting to know! 

It’s my favourite quote of all time.


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