# What e-waste can I process?



## autumnwillow (Jun 2, 2016)

Jobs that are left for me will only last about a week or two.

I'm looking at e-waste to add more jobs.

I have read a lot already regarding e-waste processing. I'm looking at wastes that can be chemically processed without the need of pyrolysis, large furnace and large ball mills.

Memory sticks are always sold out at junkyards.
What they have are mostly motherboards, cd-rom boards, fiber/plastic cpus, power supplies and cellphone boards.

I think the best type would be cpus? 
Correct me if I am wrong but processing chips from boards requires a large furnace to be able to do it economically?


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jun 2, 2016)

autumnwillow said:


> Memory sticks are always sold out at junkyards.
> What they have are mostly motherboards, cd-rom boards, fiber/plastic cpus, power supplies and cellphone boards.
> 
> I think the best type would be cpus?
> Correct me if I am wrong but processing chips from boards requires a large furnace to be able to do it economically?



Maybe some N/S bridge bga chips?
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22951&start=60

Or your scrap yard may have some silver contact points in old relays/breakers/etc..

Those are the only things i can think of, as most escrap stuff needs pyro'd

Or, make a craigslist advert "buying gold, certain e scrap, class rings, gold filled, eyeglass frames, broken jewelry, dental scrap, and whatever else you may want to refine", throw it up in the wanted section and you will certainly get a couple replies in a day or 2. 

Usually, the replies i get are goldfilled, as pawn shops and "buy/sell gold & silver" places dont mess with it. In fact, the one closest to my house just takes his jewelry, melts it all and ships it to cali. He wont even look at gold filled (at least he didnt) until i told him i could/would refine it. I have only picked up once from him so far, but it was just one week after i went in initially.


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## autumnwillow (Jun 10, 2016)

Okay. I guess I have no choice but to pyrolize and incinerate. I do have a location for these but its far from home. I'll just save up the stuff that needs to be incinerated and proceed from there.

I'm a bit lost at yields though. It seems there are a lot of things to consider when buying scrap e-waste. I've been reading a lot on yields and the results for ram is pretty much the same but the rest just fluctuates.

I'll be purchasing some RAM(ddr1/ddr2) and LGA 775/AMD CPUs for about $24/kg to test the yields. Is that a good price?


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## g_axelsson (Jun 10, 2016)

For the AMD LGA 775 it's way too high price. Boardsort is paying $4.50 per pound for pinless CPU:s.
Gold fingered memory is paid $12 per pound by Boardsort so in that case it is closer to market price.

But the you have to add in processing cost and also factor in if you have bigger losses than Boardsort.
You could also see it as you are paying for an education and buy material at a loss. I did it when I bought some platinum coated turbine blades from Lasersteve at double the metal value.

Göran


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## Topher_osAUrus (Jun 10, 2016)

Personally, i think its a little high, but its all perspective. I only pay for select escrap, the rest i get in replies to my recycling advertising. 

Do you live in the city? Have a back yard? Could you dig a fire pit? 

Some guys pyro their chips just over charcoal. 

Maybe buy/find an old barbeque that could hook up a blower fan to the bottom vent and close the top one (or reroute it to the charcoal with a pipe) and just have a mobile pyro/incineration unit.

Have a bunch of scrap yards around you? Any that will let you walk the yard and buy back scrap? One close to me has another huge server and a huge breaker box that im going to buy from them after i get back from vacation. 

Im not sure how viable of an option this might be, but, I recently got a *heavy*duty* paper shredder that I am going to try to run some flatpacks through to open them up for an AR leach.

Just a couple of ideas. May not have merit, since i dont know your situation in its entirety.

But where there is a will, there is a way!


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## nickvc (Jun 10, 2016)

Sounds a bit high to me, check out Boardsort for prices they pay for E scrap that gives you some idea of what you should pay.
With yields it all comes down to the skill and experience of the refiner and what processes or chemicals they use, you can make money from it but you need quantity to make it a commercial venture, also remember loses are exaggerated with small amounts of values.


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## autumnwillow (Jun 10, 2016)

Ahhh. I was comparing with boardsort prices before and found out that they were buying it too low as compared to some e-waste scrap hoarders here. I just realized now that the prices are in lb and not in kg.

I guess I'll buy the cpus at $2/kg and same price for the RAM.

He also has motherboards to sell. I have to read more about this on how to process.

My chemicals are very cheap as I buy them directly from a supplier in bulk. The labor isn't.

I have a place where I could incinerate/pyrolize but it would take a two hour drive to go there so it's not economical on a small scale. I'll just save it up until there is plenty to process.

Thank you guys!


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## autumnwillow (Jun 11, 2016)

Got my lot!
Approximately 5kgs of ram. Forgot to take pictures. Some of them had plating on the upper side of the board. 

Started to trim the fingers.
I removed the chips with a blade. 

Now I'm not sure which process is most efficient. 
1) butchers reuse of copper nitrate by adding sulfuric
2) ap
3) direct ar

I guess I need to read more. I rejected the cpus as I think it will be laborful to process.


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## modtheworld44 (Jun 11, 2016)

autumnwillow said:


> Got my lot!
> Approximately 5kgs of ram. Forgot to take pictures. Some of them had plating on the upper side of the board.
> 
> Started to trim the fingers.
> ...



autumnwillow


Are you planning to do this for yield data purposes?

If so it would be in your best interest to do a full categorical break down,to achieve the best reference able Yield data.This is clearly just my opinion and Am Not trying to tell you how to run your own materials.I have some data from a 34# batch of mixed ram I could share if you want me to.I tracked it all the way until I got to the regular ic's and then I got pressed for time and forgot to right that part down.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44


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## autumnwillow (Jun 11, 2016)

Yes of course, so everyone should know the process in order to get the best yield instead of doing some other things that ends up with more losses.

Would you kindly post the data for the forums sake?

Lets take out option 3. Direct AR will just be a mess.
AP is slow.
Nitric digestion will have a chance of producing metastannic acid. Not sure. Don't know what these fingers are made of yet.
Butcher's copper nitrate + sulfuric. I wonder what will happen to tin when it's present in this process?

Am I correct that these fingers contain gold, silver, copper, nickel and fibers(PCB)?
If I could get its possible structure/layers/metals/plastics/fibers content then I think I would already know how to process it in a efficient way.


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## modtheworld44 (Jun 11, 2016)

autumnwillow said:


> Yes of course, so everyone should know the process in order to get the best yield instead of doing some other things that ends up with more losses.
> 
> Would you kindly post the data for the forums sake?
> 
> ...



autumnwillow

It's kinda ironically funny that you asked this "Would you kindly post the data for the forums sake?.

Why you may ask,well because when I bought that ram back then I had every intention of doing just that.That was the second reason for buying the ram,and the first reason was because that was the starting point of my yield data base.I never posted the data in full(I have posted bits and pieces through out other posts),because I didn't feel like being told that my data was flawed,inaccurate,and that I couldn't perform the proper tests without a PROPER lab setup and analytical tools.I started this as a backyard refiner and even when I get a proper lab and equipment(Will always be a backyard refiner). This is just my opinionated explanation and nothing is meant or implied by it.

I'll post the data later in this thread after you post yours,that will be the deal I'm offering.If you take that deal I'll post a step by step of how I would do it if it was mine.Then we can do a comparison of the yield data.I have a very busy day planned so if you choose to take the deal,I will have to make the step by step post later to night.The M44 process I'm fixing to start will command my full attention for about the next 8 hours.Thanks in advance.


P.S The silver in ram is Not in the fingers,only in the solder,ic's,and Mlcc's.(I have not run any silver colored finger ram,so that could be the exception).



modtheworld44


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## autumnwillow (Jun 11, 2016)

Sure I'll take the deal but take note that even if we compared our data it just won't be that accurate. One's data can never be flawed or inaccurate. We are processing different types of rams and there are too many other factors to consider. 

I'll probably just process the fingers. I'll save up the chips for a later process.

What I'm looking for is the most efficient process with the most minimum losses.

If these gold fingers are plated over these nickel/copper layers then I think a nitric then AR would be the best process as long as tin is not present.
Considering both time and costs because I can get nitric for a cheap price.

If you are comparing the m44 process with the process that I have listed, I guess it would be best to do it in a real laboratory equipped to compare data analytically.


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## nickvc (Jun 12, 2016)

With the fingers there are two options if you want speed, you dissolve the metals in AR or strip using cyanide, the reason many people use AP is the difficulty in obtaining nitric and also the price.
AP can be sped up up by using an air bubbler and if you do it right it can be fairly fast, it also needs little attention so freeing you to work on other items or to search for more material to recover and refine.


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## autumnwillow (Jun 12, 2016)

nickvc said:


> With the fingers there are two options if you want speed, you dissolve the metals in AR or strip using cyanide, the reason many people use AP is the difficulty in obtaining nitric and also the price.
> AP can be sped up up by using an air bubbler and if you do it right it can be fairly fast, it also needs little attention so freeing you to work on other items or to search for more material to recover and refine.



Correct me if I am wrong.

I think that cyanide won't be that fast as I noticed some of the plating are thick and some aren't. 
Using direct AR will have other base metals dissolve. The separation of gold chloride with the undissolved materials will be hard, as some of the solution will cling to the material.
Whereas when using Nitric, you can pull the undissolved materials on top of the solution and shake it from there, gold clinging to the materials should fall off easily.


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## nickvc (Jun 12, 2016)

Cyanide is very quick if used correctly and you will have your gold in a few hours.
The presence of base metals in solution with gold is not a serious problem, if you get a dirty precipitate either re dissolve or rinse the base metals out with cold HCl.


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## autumnwillow (Jun 12, 2016)

What would you do in order to ensure that dissolved gold will not cling to the undissolved materials before the precipitation of gold?


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## nickvc (Jun 12, 2016)

With the fingers simply wash them off with your wash bottle after decanting the solution and add the wash to the solution, if you have too much solution reduce with evaporation, heat your solution.


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## autumnwillow (Jun 12, 2016)

About that, I think that process is where the losses occur. I will try to wash and monitor with an ORP and PH meter if ever I decide to go that way.

Can you tell me the composition of fingers? Do they have Tin present in them?


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## patnor1011 (Jun 12, 2016)

There is literally a ton of information posted on forum about fingers and various processes. 
You may want to take a little break and spend few days reading. You will find answers to most of your questions by simply doing some research here.


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## autumnwillow (Jun 13, 2016)

patnor1011 said:


> There is literally a ton of information posted on forum about fingers and various processes.
> You may want to take a little break and spend few days reading. You will find answers to most of your questions by simply doing some research here.



True. Tons of information. This site is like a gold mine. I've been reading for the past two weeks already on my spare time using different keywords to search.

Lots of methods are being discussed I'm just trying to find what's best for me.

The composition is, (according to google). PCB (fiber) -> Tin -> Copper -> Nickel -> Gold.


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## g_axelsson (Jun 13, 2016)

There is only tin included in fingers if you cut a part with solder on it. "Silver colored" fingers are by all practical means solder plated and should not be included with gold fingers. Any tin on circuit boards without components is visible.

Göran


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## upcyclist (Jun 13, 2016)

Two quick things: 


autumnwillow said:


> Nitric digestion will have a chance of producing metastannic acid. Not sure. Don't know what these fingers are made of yet.
> Butcher's copper nitrate + sulfuric. I wonder what will happen to tin when it's present in this process?


In general, any time you are doing a nitric-based process and are worried about tin, use an HCl soak and follow with incineration to remove excess chlorides, so that your nitric leach doesn't become AR. As Pat said, there's lots of info on the boards already--see if you can search it down.



modtheworld44 said:


> I never posted the data in full...because I didn't feel like being told that my data was flawed,inaccurate,and that I couldn't perform the proper tests without a PROPER lab setup and analytical tools.I started this as a backyard refiner and even when I get a proper lab and equipment(Will always be a backyard refiner). This is just my opinionated explanation and nothing is meant or implied by it.


I'd encourage you to post it, and see what kind of criticism you get. I believe it would be mostly, if not entirely, constructive. Toughen your skin as much as you need to read it--I don't think it will be about _you_, it will be about your processes. When they point out where in your processes you may have encountered losses, it's not because you stink, it's because they want to tell you how to improve. If they tell you your scale isn't accurate enough, it's not because you stink, it's so that you can properly frame your results, with the correct amount of significant digits. And so on. 

That way, when some doof like me sees your results, and the resulting comments, I can say "Mod got x grams of gold per kg of that source material, and I can see his methods and what others said about them. If I can get my procedures at least that good, I can expect roughly at least that much return."


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## autumnwillow (Jun 28, 2016)

I got 0.17g out of 430grams(not close cut) fingers from 5.25kg of ram sticks. Very bad. I saved the chips for a later process.

The process was:
1) 50/50 digest in nitric.
2) Removed the fibers (some gold were still clinging to the fiber)
3) AR

I will try again, but this time I will go for a cyanide leach with an ORP meter to wash.


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## nickvc (Jun 28, 2016)

The trouble with running small samples is that the loses are exaggerated, had it been me I would simply have dissolved them in AR after a HCl soak to remove any tin.
The Kcn process will yield similar results I believe as you will still encounter loses that will be large in comparison to doing a 5 kilo batch, you can tighten up on the loses but with e scrap that takes practice and skill which comes with practice..


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