# Which would be the best/most inexpensive way



## banjags (Mar 14, 2008)

This afternoon i just got literally a truck load of gold plated items from a closing radio shack. They are gold plated rg-59 splitters, gp speaker terminals, gp cable ends, etc... What process would you vote for to process this type of material? 
I am thinking a cell a large cell. Would the salt water/peroxide cell work in this case?
or do I need to go get some sulfuric acid and glycerine.

I was also given a professional electro plating power supply from a jewellery shop! Rated up to 25 amps and adjustable voltage. Old but nice.


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## Andrew W (Mar 14, 2008)

Wow that's pretty good. How'd you come about getting that stuff? Did you have to buy it? ..sorry I can't help..


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## lazersteve (Mar 14, 2008)

Banjags,

The scrap you mentioned is typically flash plated and strips nicely with the sulfuric cell.

Steve


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## banjags (Mar 15, 2008)

I got this stuff from a guy I work with he paid $800 for 3 half ton loads of radio shack branded stuff. I took the stuff that had the best plating on it and I am going to split the profit with him.

Thats what I figured. Trying to do it with AP or someother chemical means would probably take a small fortune worth of chemicals. I am hoping with the power supply I can hang many items at once because I got a lot to do.


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## Anonymous (Mar 15, 2008)

Banjags build a tumbler basket for your cell, you could use an old rotisserie motor to turn the basket. 

If you're only going for a small 1 Liter basket use the small motor from the micro oven rotisserie base.


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## banjags (Mar 15, 2008)

What would you propose to construct the basket out of? 
Why would a basket be better than having many anodes?


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## Anonymous (Mar 15, 2008)

Banjags if you had 500,000 screws to plate would you hang each one individually. No you would use a rotary basket that would hold thousands of screws each plating session.

Since you're reverse plating this will work equally well for you.

Lazersteve has a good video using the sulfuric gold stripping cell, I suggest you watch it then make your modifications to suit your needs.


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## donald236 (Mar 15, 2008)

hey gustavus have you made a cell of this sort . i've watched steves video and have every thing i think to make a cell but im instered in this tumbler basket idea . do you have a pic? how would a man make this type of cell and not have any type of complications?


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## Anonymous (Mar 15, 2008)

No but its the plan, the ultimate would be having a slow turning tumbler, half submerged in your sulfuric using a copper anode basket. 

The axis would rest on your electrical contact point making for easy removal for emptying and reloading. 

The beauty of the rotary basket is that your able to keep your rectifier size down as all the parts in the basket are not simultaneously in contact with your basket ( anode ) for reverse plating. 

At 12 volts or less I'm not sure if you would have to use an insulated coupler from your reduction motor to basket drive. I'm assuming not, but if it were needed to insulate a small Lovejoy coupler would suffice for the job.

The professional plating shops use a rotary basket for plating small items such as small screws, rivets and the like.


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## donald236 (Mar 15, 2008)

yea thats a good idea . and it also just downed on me . i used to work at a place that done eletro plating and they used tumblers just like we are talking about . what i can do is talk to them and get some ideas for this . i will report this in a few days when i get some more info . 
how does this sound to you guys :?:


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## banjags (Mar 15, 2008)

wouldnt that cause a lot of stress on the power supply because the output would be contantly fluctuating as more or less pieces contact the anode basket. I have a few different ideas in my head to allow hanging of many items on a few anodes running the length of the cell for the items the have holes in them. And a basket for the items that do not. I never thought of using a rotating basket. I am not sure I have the know how to construct something like that.

On the subject of building a cell I bought some sulphuric drain cleaner from rona. I cannot find the msds on it. it is called pro flo from a company called vistaqua. I have emailed them for the msds. Hoping I could get a faster response here. Having a fun time finding glycerine... is this absolutely necessary? Thanks all. I appreciate it.


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## Anonymous (Mar 16, 2008)

Hello 
I used a tea ball and it seem to work just fine for me in my cell. 
If i'm wrong let me know please. I have used this 4 time now with great 
results at the end.


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## Anonymous (Mar 16, 2008)

Great idea the tea ball, but banjags is claiming to have a truck load of Radio Shack gold plated stuff which 

I would think are stereo connectors and other larger pieces that he is profit sharing with the original owner.

It would only make good sense to expedite the process keeping a good report with the owner should another deal come up. 

Wished I had an angel.

ttys
Gill


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## Arcani (Mar 18, 2008)

> i used to work at a place that done eletro plating and they used tumblers just like we are talking about . what i can do is talk to them and get some ideas for this .



maybe vibrating it would work, would be easy compaird to tumbler, or maybe a cam to raise and lower the basket slowly(i can't help but think cheap :lol: )


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## donald236 (Mar 18, 2008)

hey arcani your idea is a good one but and please don't get me wrong I'm not being rude but that would not be doable and here is the reason the tumbler has to turn slow that way all the stuff that's inside . (pins for example) they all have to stay in a constant contact with one another for the reverse plating to work . that's also true with electroplating . like i said i used to work at a place that done this and that's how i know this . what I'm working on is making a lot smaller version of the same thing and also making it cost efficient to make and it last for a while so that it will make money in the long run . and it pay for its self in about 1to2 runs.
i hope this makes since    

donald


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## Arcani (Mar 18, 2008)

> and it pay for its self in about 1to2 runs.
> i hope this makes since



makes perfect sence, just pitch'n some from a dif angle. :lol:


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 18, 2008)

Somewhere, early in the forum, this tumbler idea was discussed in detail. For many years, I used a small (8" dia.) commercial plating barrel in the H2SO4 stripper. They are expensive, however. 

On a small scale, I can visualize a small perforated, closeable plastic container with a rotisserie rod running down the center. Only the bottom portion of the container would be in the solution. I would fill the container about half full of parts. Anode contact to the rod would be made with a spring contact on a rounded portion of the rod. As it turned, the parts would make contact with the rod. Traditionally, it is assumed that only 1/3 of the parts make contact in a plating barrel, at any given time. It would, therefore, take 3 times longer to strip than it would with a direct contact.

There are other ways to do this. Maybe one could use metal danglers to make contact inside a plastic tumbler. If I remember right, in the early discussion, lazersteve had another idea that sounded pretty good. Can't remember what it was. Search.


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## Gotrek (Mar 18, 2008)

banjags said:


> On the subject of building a cell I bought some sulphuric drain cleaner from rona. I cannot find the msds on it. it is called pro flo from a company called vistaqua. I have emailed them for the msds. Hoping I could get a faster response here. Having a fun time finding glycerine... is this absolutely necessary? Thanks all. I appreciate it.



They sell glycerine at pharmacies


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## banjags (Mar 18, 2008)

Gotrek said:


> banjags said:
> 
> 
> > On the subject of building a cell I bought some sulphuric drain cleaner from rona. I cannot find the msds on it. it is called pro flo from a company called vistaqua. I have emailed them for the msds. Hoping I could get a faster response here. Having a fun time finding glycerine... is this absolutely necessary? Thanks all. I appreciate it.
> ...



So Shoppers or Rexall should have it?


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## Gotrek (Mar 18, 2008)

banjags said:


> Gotrek said:
> 
> 
> > banjags said:
> ...



I can go there for you tomorrow and check to make sure I work right by a rexall. Safeway had it it's often used to lubricate thermometers too welll... You know. Also use it to make soap I think they also sell glycerin suppositories.


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## banjags (Mar 18, 2008)

cool thanks GoTrek... Which rexall do you work by?


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## Gotrek (Mar 18, 2008)

banjags said:


> cool thanks GoTrek... Which rexall do you work by?



Downtown City place.


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## banjags (Mar 18, 2008)

oh ok. If ones got it they should all have it.


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## donald236 (Mar 18, 2008)

they have glycerin around here but it seems a bit expensive but im not sure on that the pharmacy here in my town sells it at $8.00 for a 16oz bottle . is that expensive or no ? can any body get it a lot cheaper say per gallon :?: :?: :?:


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## agpodt77339 (Mar 18, 2008)

I don't think you would need a gallon of it for refining. I think in Steve's video it said use a teaspoon or something for the cell.


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## Platdigger (Mar 18, 2008)

Ok, just going by what I read on this one, but, I don't think glycerine is a necessity.
Randy


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## dallasgoldbug (Mar 19, 2008)

You can also use white elmers glue. Just a small bit dissolved in the sulfuric. Works the same as Glycerin.

As for the process, Steve what do you think about a few 55gal plastic drums with my carbon method?

I finally got the large 10" carbon disks for sale. I have then for sale on http://www.h2ocrazy.com

One 10" disk in the bottom of a 55gal drum will make quick work of the items.

DallasGoldBug


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## Gotrek (Mar 19, 2008)

Jason Rexall actually didn't have any (to my surprise, they did have suppositories(glycerin in Gelatine) though) I'll check safeway they used to have it I'm sure because I bought ome 2 years ago.

the pharmacist told me to try a craft store.

He showed me some butt pills that were 100%glycerol with gelatine coating no other ingredients (like aspirin) so I guess you could crack a bunch of gel caps 


Or... Save some gas and... http://cgi.ebay.com/Gourmet-Bait-Glycerol-Glycerine-8-Oz-Carp-Catfish_W0QQitemZ320229077822QQihZ011QQcategoryZ31693QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## donald236 (Mar 19, 2008)

man what they wont sell on ebay


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## lazersteve (Mar 19, 2008)

Dallas said:


> Steve what do you think about a few 55gal plastic drums with my carbon method?



Dallas,

Sounds like a great idea, but I'd be very sure to vent the Hydrogen safely from such a large reaction. Be mindful of anything that runs with a spark (switches, motors with brushes, lighters, etc.).

Steve


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## dallasgoldbug (Mar 23, 2008)

Oh yeah, that's a definite outside project. 

I'm jealous of all you guys with farms, garages, and shops. Anyone in Dallas want to go in on renting a shop? I'm stuck inside my condo staring at my welding rig and other fun toys. This sucks. :mrgreen:


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## banjags (Mar 23, 2008)

Well I ran a few pounds of the gold plated scrap yesterday. It worked just fine with out the gylcerine. One observation I had was. That the reaction did not begin until about 5-6 volts then it proceeded kinda slow given the light nature of the plating. Deplating was almost instant when I raised the voltage to 15-17v. I was given a plating machine from a jewellery program that runs at the school I work at. Very nice... varible output voltage and upto 20 amp output. 
Once I am finished running the cell and I filter out the black sludge, what would be the best way to process it after that? Dissolve in HCl and bleach to purify followed by regular washes after precipitating?
Last question is what type of store in canada would sell that copper screen/mesh or something similar in stainless?


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## Anonymous (Mar 23, 2008)

http://www.ferrierwire.com/

Ferrier Wire Goods Company Limited. 
1-416-769-5280 Toll Free 1-888-769-5280


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## Gotrek (Mar 24, 2008)

banjags said:


> Well I ran a few pounds of the gold plated scrap yesterday. It worked just fine with out the gylcerine. One observation I had was. That the reaction did not begin until about 5-6 volts then it proceeded kinda slow given the light nature of the plating. Deplating was almost instant when I raised the voltage to 15-17v. I was given a plating machine from a jewellery program that runs at the school I work at. Very nice... varible output voltage and upto 20 amp output.
> Once I am finished running the cell and I filter out the black sludge, what would be the best way to process it after that? Dissolve in HCl and bleach to purify followed by regular washes after precipitating?
> Last question is what type of store in canada would sell that copper screen/mesh or something similar in stainless?



Michaels Craft sells copper mesh (as well as other types of mesh) For stainless why not just ust a sink strainer (superstore) you can get a large one for cheap and the bonus is it's already a basket. Need something bigger get a cooking strainer.

Glycerine at superstore Pharmacy (first aid section) is 3.49$ for 100ml


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## banjags (Mar 24, 2008)

I will have to check out michaels then. 

I must have been blind. I look at superstore in that area did not see it. Thank you again gotrek.


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## Gotrek (Mar 24, 2008)

banjags said:


> I will have to check out michaels then.
> 
> I must have been blind. I look at superstore in that area did not see it. Thank you again gotrek.



Superstore St-Annes.


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## Anonymous (Mar 24, 2008)

banjags are you following this thread. Why waste all your gasoline running around town looking for glycerin when dallasgoldbug commented Elmers Glue will replace glycerin in your process.



> You can also use white elmers glue. Just a small bit dissolved in the sulfuric. Works the same as Glycerin.
> 
> DallasGoldBug


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## banjags (Mar 24, 2008)

The process works fine with out glycerin. So I am not going to worry about it until next time I got to a store that has it for sure. (superstore). But thank you for reiterating that.


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## goldsilverpro (Mar 24, 2008)

> You can also use white elmers glue. Just a small bit dissolved in the sulfuric. Works the same as Glycerin.



No offense intended, but how does glycerin work in this system? What does it do that you can detect? How can you tell that Elmer's glue works the same?



> The process works fine with out glycerin.



I agree with this statement. Glycerin isn't in the original patent. Someone, later on, decided to use it and, when the word got out, everyone started using it. To me, using glycerin in the H2SO4 stripper is kind of like buying a gadget to keep tigers away from your door. No tigers come to your door, so it must work. I never have heard a straight answer on what it does, if anything. 

I ran this system for many years (started in 1970), on a very large professional scale, without glycerin, with zero problems. Would someone tell what is the practical purpose of using it? I'm waiting with baited breath.


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## Arcani (Mar 24, 2008)

> Would someone tell what is the practical purpose of using it? I'm waiting with baited breath.



lol, it's doctrine and not to be questioned, lol :lol:


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## lazersteve (Mar 24, 2008)

I have no idea why it's needed either, I can't tell any difference between the result of the cell run with glycerin and without. I like everyone else, has most likely used it because that's the way I learned to set up my cell. 

I think I need to edit my cell video and remove the part about glycerin. :idea:


Steve


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## Gotrek (Mar 24, 2008)

Plus with Glycerin and sulfuric aren't you only a couple steps away from making Trinitroglycerin


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## donald236 (Mar 26, 2008)

hey i've got a question . i've been following this thread and trying to keep up with you all . you guys are saying that you can run a cell with just sulfric acid . is that right :?: :?: :?:


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## Gotrek (Mar 26, 2008)

That's what they are saying.


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## banjags (Mar 26, 2008)

My cell is working very well without glycerin.


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## Harold_V (Mar 26, 2008)

donald236 said:


> hey i've got a question . i've been following this thread and trying to keep up with you all . you guys are saying that you can run a cell with just sulfric acid . is that right :?: :?: :?:


Have you read the original patent? 

There is no mention of glycerin-----nor was it used by the government when they operated a cell (in the mid 70's) that had recorded 35,000 troy ounces of gold recovered. I visited the facility in question (New Mexico) and saw the cell personally. 

It's clearly not a required constituent of a stripping cell, and may not provide any benefits. Have you read the comments provided by GSP, who has extensive experience operating stripping cells?

Funny how house wife's tales are taken so seriously, and good and viable information tends to get ignored. Refiners, or those that have aspirations of becoming refiners, appear to be a superstitious lot. 

Harold


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## donald236 (Mar 26, 2008)

hey thanks guys harold i like what you sais about the wifes tales that one made my day :lol: :lol: now that makes me wander about something i wander why (who ever started it)would even put glycerin in a cell when it does nothing to improve on anything . i mean its like a car for example if its not broken don't fix it


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## Gotrek (Mar 26, 2008)

Guessing here but Probably someone sold something commercially online and had to change it just enough so it would not fall under someone elses patent. Someone analysed the device and said shoot I can make my own for way less then this... analysed the fluid and said shit I'll just throw some glycerin in there and it won't change a thing and be different enought I can market it myself...


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## donald236 (Mar 26, 2008)

boy i think you said it right and nailed it . i mean look at those ebay buyers maby we can invent something and make them belive it works better than any thing else


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## Platdigger (Mar 26, 2008)

I believe this is were the glycerin thing started.....or at least spread.

There was a guy selling directions....or plans if you will, to making a stripping cell.......and he claimed glycerin was a needed ingredient.
Randy


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## steveonmars (Apr 4, 2008)

Hi I'm new and still getting info and piling up scrap.

This cell technique looks great and I've watched Steve's videos (thanks Steve!!!).

I do have a few questions.

1. If you use stainless for the anode for the larger plated items, wouldn't a stainless basket work better than copper since you won't have any copper in the solution when you're done? I know people have mentioned different sources for stainless baskets but does it work better than the copper basket or was there another reason for using the copper?

2. in Steve's video he uses stainless aligator clips. Does everything have to be stainless inluding the wire connecting the clips? Why use stainless? I assume it's for the current to flow from the lead cathode to the stainless anode so it reacts with only the gold, correct? If so then it seems the stainless clip must be inserted into the acid for the process to work.

I'm still trying to find the thread(s) for doing the small pins and very small plated parts or is that done the same as Steve did the bigger pins in the cell video? Is that the best method for the small pins or can you use the AP method from Steve's videos?

I have tons of questions but I'm trying to find as many answers in existing threads without asking repetitive questions but there's so many posts and so much information here that it gets confusing at times. I'm sorry if I ask questions that have already been answered before but I always felt the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Thanks alot in advance, this is a great site and you guys do an outstanding job!

Steve


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## Gotrek (Apr 7, 2008)

I've asked about using a stainless basket a couple times no one really answered. I'm not sure the reason. Stainless will dissolve in sulfuric. Copper is way better conductor though.


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## Palladium (Apr 7, 2008)

Yes, you can use stainless. It' will just dissolve a little bit quicker. When not in use keep it stored in water. The copper will also dissolve, but it will do so much slower that stainless because the acid is concentrated. Copper dissolves much slower in Cold concentrated sulfuric than diluted. Don't let the acid overheat. cool the acid or do the batchs in cycles.


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## Scott2357 (Apr 7, 2008)

Using the electrolyte Steve recommended, stainless will not dissolve as long as current is flowing.


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## Harold_V (Apr 7, 2008)

Gotrek said:


> Stainless will dissolve in sulfuric but so will copper.



Actually, no! Copper does not dissolve in sulfuric. Copper oxide does, however. Clean copper can be boiled in sulfuric acid with no effect. I have used the procedure for cleaning pieces made of beryllium copper after precipitation hardening, to remove the scale that forms from the heat treating process. 

Harold


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## Gotrek (Apr 7, 2008)

ahh ok makes sense. Thank-You. I'll fix my post.


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## steveonmars (Apr 10, 2008)

In Steve's video he points out the brown bubbles he says is from the copper disolving. What I was wondering was how does this affect the rest of the proccess. I'm still very new at this and I'm trying to learn as much as I can before I actually try to do anything. I'm sorry if these question have been answered before.

Steve


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