# sodium sulfite vs. zinc precipitation



## captain1 (Sep 15, 2010)

Just scratching my head right now. I am unable to melt anything. I was using zinc to gather my values out of solution. I found out that it doesn't melt and leaves things in a different state. Now I went to sodium sulfite to drop gold down. Seems to work great. But doesn't melt at all either. I precipitated from AR then washed 3 times with distilled. Then incinerated to glowing red. Then pulverized up and put HCL and boiled for a a couple of hours and let decant. Then washed with distilled 3 more times. The HCL never even reacted. Incinerated again to glowing red but still doesn't melt. Do I need to incinerate for a longer period of time or would I need to just go back into AR and start over with sodium sulfite? Or would it be better to work the powder into silver then part the gold with nitric? Do you have to put it into silver to get it back to metal or will it just melt up to yellow gold straight up. Just trying to find a good way to finish the last step of getting the gold back to yellow gold. And yes I have read HOKE several times. She jumps around Allot and not to direct. I have collected 2000 + ounces using zinc to precipitate now I am stuck unable to finish. Any help and critism would be welcome please.


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## jimdoc (Sep 15, 2010)

What are you trying to melt it with?

Jim


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## captain1 (Sep 15, 2010)

trying to melt with a torch. Propane Oxygen set up.


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## jsargent (Sep 15, 2010)

Glowing red is just not hot enough. A bright orange is more like it in terms of visible light emitted at 2000F. Take a small sample, put it in a small crucible with a pinch of borax and just put the heat to it. It WILL melt if using oxygen propane.


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## captain1 (Sep 16, 2010)

It melts down to a black ball that doesn't look or act like metal. Really brittle almost like melted salt. Shouldn't zinc bring it down to metal also. And just be able to melt it up. I know hoke says it would for nearly all the metals it is used. But it seems like everybody takes it back up and drops everything specific. Like gold with smb and platinum with ammonium chloride. Just wondering if I am just dropping salt out and trying to melt it somehow. You would think all the washing and incinerating and acid would take care of that. I did use a patent process this time when I decided to try sodium sulfite. They had listed to nuteralize nitric with urea and adjust ph up to 2or 3 with carbinate. Then add dissolved sodium sulfite. I had a great reaction and drop. They say it should be metallic metal. Sure doesn't seem like that. Well it the morning I'm going to take what is left back up in AR and try again exept without adjusting ph up to 2or 3 with carbonate. The sodium sulfite seems to do that if you use enough of it. Just thinking maybe the carbonate is messing me up and dropping salt out.


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## nickvc (Sep 16, 2010)

Captain hi, it would help if you could tell us what you have been refining and exactly what you have done. Is the powder you have precipitated a brown colour? Barren Realms had some good pictures on one of the threads of various colours of precipitated gold. If it is gold powder it should melt fairly easily even with a propane torch in a furnace, oxy propane can melt platinum so it should melt gold very easily so I think something is not what it appears.


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## Harold_V (Sep 16, 2010)

captain1 said:


> And yes I have read HOKE several times. She jumps around Allot and not to direct.


That, for me, sends up a red flag. Hoke's processes work, and very well. If you are having problems with her methods, it's not because she jumps around---it's because you are not following instructions properly, and may also be because you're winging some of the operations. Follow her instructions to the letter. Do not attempt to re-invent the wheel. There is no need. 



> I precipitated from AR then washed 3 times with distilled.


That is not an acceptable procedure. Washing with water serves very little purpose, and can be the cause of residual contaminants. I see no mention of washing with HCl. Did you use any?



> Then incinerated to glowing red. Then pulverized up and put HCL and boiled for a a couple of hours and let decant.


If you have precipitated from AR, there is no need to incinerate. Any incineration should have been conducted before the values were dissolved, not after recovery. 
I'm somewhat confused by your comment "let decant". To decant is to remove solution-----but I expect you're suggesting you let the solution settle. 



> Then washed with distilled 3 more times. The HCL never even reacted. Incinerated again to glowing red but still doesn't melt.


That comes as no surprise to me. I expect you have little gold, although I have no idea what you do have. 



> Do I need to incinerate for a longer period of time or would I need to just go back into AR and start over with sodium sulfite? Or would it be better to work the powder into silver then part the gold with nitric?


My honest opinion?

It would serve you best to go back to Hoke and start reading again, absorbing what she teaches. You are introducing processes that make no sense to me. Please understand I'm not trying to be rude----it's just a simple fact that if you follow Hoke's advice, you will achieve success. Plain and simple. If you do not, it's because you don't have values present. 



> I have collected 2000 + ounces using zinc to precipitate now I am stuck unable to finish.


Does that tell you anything? For me, it's another red flag. If I'm to assume you have recovered 2,000 ounces, you would have processed unimaginable volumes of materials, even if you started with karat gold. What you have recovered may not have value at all. You must be far more specific in describing what you have processed before anything good can come from this conversation. Please begin by describing what you processed, and how you recovered the 2,000 ounces. Once that's understood, some of this may make sense. 



> Any help and critism would be welcome please.


I'll gladly try to help, but be prepared to hear things you don't want to hear. I do not sugar coat things. If you are doing something "stupid" (I mean that in the kindest way), it's important that you gain an understanding that you are. I'll be quick to bring to your attention anything I can see that's wrong, and I'll try to do it politely, but, as I said, be prepared to read something you don't want to hear. 

Mean time, give this some thought. The recovery of values using zinc should be restricted to just that, recovery. Zinc should not be considered a refining process, for it is not selective in the least. 

Pure gold melts perfectly well without flux. You need not do anything to make it yellow---that's its nature. If it has any other color, it's because it contains contamination. If, when you attempt to melt, you get a black substance, it isn't gold, although it may contain traces. 

Harold


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## Barren Realms 007 (Sep 16, 2010)

> nickvc
> 
> Captain hi, it would help if you could tell us what you have been refining and exactly what you have done. Is the powder you have precipitated a brown colour? Barren Realms had some good pictures on one of the threads of various colours of precipitated gold. If it is gold powder it should melt fairly easily even with a propane torch in a furnace, oxy propane can melt platinum so it should melt gold very easily so I think something is not what it appears.





[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0boLmoSGE[/youtube]


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