# Jars Cracking



## golddie (Feb 22, 2011)

I have bought beakers and 3 neck reaction vessels and coffee pots from a second hand store.
I have tried the coffee pots and the beakers and they are doing a good job at boiling acids and metals
Since I have so many jars like peanut butter ,honey and so on 
I tried boiling water in one of these at home and it worked
So I said I can do the same with acids and I tries few days ago and the bottom feel out of the jar when I picked it up and its a good thing I had my eye glasses and I got a small bit of nitric in my eye and it hurt but that way few days ago now I am OK.
That time I didnt have a metals grill in between the hot plate and the jar,

So yesterday I said I will boil some acid in a honey jar and this time I will put a metal grill in between the jar and the hot plate and for some reason the jar cracked and the silver and the acid went all on the hot plate.

So I said I will take a old corningware type of vessel and put my beaker in that and boil my acid in that.
This time the corning ware cracked but nothing happened to the beaker
I dont know why the corningware cracked but I know one thing that I will not use these jar made for food.

I have seen many people using these corningware type of dishes as a secondary dish in case of spills do you think this cracked because I should have water in it or maybe it was old and had cracks


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## goldenchild (Feb 22, 2011)

Mason type jars are a different type of glass than in beakers and coffee pots. Coffee pots are just a high temp glass while beakers are borsilicate glass which have a higher resistance to thermal shock. 

When you boiled your jars containing water, was it on a stove inside of a pot containing water? Like when canning? That would explain why it didn't crack then. The hotplate you are using is important too. If you have the kind with coils that get red hot, glass would be more susceptible to breakage as they get much hotter than the hotplates with solid pieces of iron on the range. Just imagine if it would have been ounces of gold you spilled all over the hotplate :shock: Bottom line... Don't use glass jars to heat anything.


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## golddie (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi goldenchild
On the coffee pots they say not to boil in them but I have boiled so many things in them and till now nothing has happened
I boiled some silver and nitric in a coffee pot today but i want to bring an end to that habit.
Or just boil things that are not very valuable

I will have to make a trip to the guy who sells vessels
I am even thinking of having a vessel made with 2 necks but I think it is a waist of money
A beaker is doing a very good job


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## lazersteve (Feb 22, 2011)

I've been using the same corning ware catch dishes for about 2 years now. 

I had a few crack prior to the ones I'm using now, caused by rapid heating or cooling.

The key to keeping them in one piece is to heat them evenly, never raise or lower the heat too quickly, never add cold ingredients into a hot beaker, and be sure your heat source provides even heat. Spiral burners are not good to use, use a solid surface burner instead. If using a flame be sure to use some form of heat spreading device like a ceramic coated mesh between the flame and the dish/beaker. 

Don't bang your corning ware dishes around or stack them under heavy piles of other dishes as this can weaken them also. I've seen them develop a stress fracture and appear to be in one piece then fail at the worst possible moment.

Keeping them clean between batches is also a good practice as it prevents clean solutions from becoming contaminated if you have a boil over. Believe me you will have boil overs no matter how careful you are.

Steve


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## golddie (Feb 23, 2011)

As a secondary dish would a old tefal wok do the job or a tefal frying pan do the job


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## golddie (Mar 4, 2011)

I bought a conringware type of a dish in case the beaker cracked and it would spill in that.
I don't remember the name.
I few days ago I had one and I said it cracked and this one also cracked.
It was not round and a bit oval and it went outside of the hotplate but not much.
The hotplate is with coils and I bought it from Wall mart.
Steve was saying that it is from the coils
I would like to have a secondary dish in case of spills but something is wrong here.
I said maybe a tefal but I am saying is it really necessary to have a secondary dish.
Maybe I have the get a different hotplate 
Also I wonder if Harold use one of these things because a beaker seems like it is made well


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 4, 2011)

golddie said:


> I bought a conringware type of a dish in case the beaker cracked and it would spill in that.
> I don't remember the name.
> I few days ago I had one and I said it cracked and this one also cracked.
> It was not round and a bit oval and it went outside of the hotplate but not much.
> ...



Get you a solid surface hot plate to work with. And put sand in it then put your container in it to pocess your stuff. Don't raise the heat real quick when you are heating things up.


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## golddie (Mar 4, 2011)

Hi Barren 
That is an idea I like 
What happens if a spill happens, do you let the sand settle down and recover the AR
Thanks


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## Drewbie (Mar 4, 2011)

My heater is spiral, so I just put a 3/8 " thick steel plate on top of it.


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## golddie (Mar 5, 2011)

Drewbie
I thought about that too 
Thanks


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## lazersteve (Mar 5, 2011)

Goldie,

Look for one of the wide flat corning ware dishes with handles on either end. They are about 2" tall and 9" square. They usually have flowers or same other colored design on the outside. The entire surface of the dish is glossy and the bottom is labeled, stove top safe, oven safe, and microwave safe.

Steve


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## dtectr (Mar 5, 2011)

FWIW
I am back to Hoke's sandbath - a couple of inches of sand in my old steel gold pan & works very well on propane burner on my grill, or hotplate. 

Most "breaks", in retrospect, have been my fault, i.e. adding cold solution to a hot container, a cold container to a hot surface, etc. You can usually tell if this is the case if you hear yourself saying, "Dammit [your name]! 8) " after you hear the "Pingkt" from the crack starting.

For serious heating, I use an old Pyrex perk-style coffee pot which I scrub _religiously_ between uses with Bon Ami cleanser & a brush used for that purpose only. (Thanks, Harold!) The only thing I do differently is, after a thorough scrub & rinse, to wipe the glass surface with a clean paper towel inside first, then outside, paying special attention to the spout, making sure they are no water drops before heating.

I work too hard for too long to throw anything away, I tell you!


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## golddie (Mar 8, 2011)

I think Harold said he used a tray for spills. 
My fume hood is made like a tray so I am saying I will use a hot plate and a beaker.
Beakers seem so strong and I am wondering if it is possible for them to crack.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 8, 2011)

golddie said:


> I think Harold said he used a tray for spills.
> My fume hood is made like a tray so I am saying I will use a hot plate and a beaker.
> Beakers seem so strong and I am wondering if it is possible for them to crack.



The smaller your tray the easier it will be to clean up any mess you have. If you use your hood bottom as your try you will possibly need to move everything out to clean up a spill or boil over(hush mic).


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## dtectr (Mar 8, 2011)

http://www.smex.net.au/Reference/SteelColours.htm 
heat differentials within vessel itself create tremendous stress on the glass. Look at an electric hotplate - a 3/8" orange hot ribbon with much cooler spaces between as it is coiled. ALL glass will eventually succumb. You can prevent this with this: 

This is Home economics 101 - my wife taught me  :lol:


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## Harold_V (Mar 9, 2011)

golddie said:


> I think Harold said he used a tray for spills.


No, I didn't use a tray. Unlike almost all folks here, I processed all of my solutions directly on the burner (gas hotplate), using a thin sheet of asbestos between the beakers and flame. 

Beakers are rugged, but they do break. When they did, it was almost always my fault---often from allowing solids to cook to the bottom of a beaker (polishing wastes, for example) before they were up to a boil, which will prevent that from happening. You must stir regularly prior to boiling, however. If you allow the material to settle too long, the beaker gets super heated, then when you stir, thermal shock cracks the beaker. I do not recall ever having one break completely. They would crack, but retain the solution. 

The tray I used was for melting. Having dumped five troy ounces of molten gold once, a tray was the logical solution. 

Harold


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## Harold_V (Mar 9, 2011)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> If you use your hood bottom as your try you will possibly need to move everything out to clean up a spill or boil over(hush mic).


You must have been looking over my shoulder. That's exactly what I'd have to do when I had a boil-over---which occurred only when processing eye glasses, and then only on occasion. 

Harold


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## Barren Realms 007 (Mar 9, 2011)

Harold_V said:


> Barren Realms 007 said:
> 
> 
> > If you use your hood bottom as your try you will possibly need to move everything out to clean up a spill or boil over(hush mic).
> ...



My hot plate malfunctioned Monday afternoon and caused one on me. I had gone to do something else for a while and came back to a holy mess.


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## golddie (Mar 14, 2011)

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/237337050/Electric_slow_cooker/showimage.html
I bought one of these in a second hand store and either its broken or it takes forever to get hot
So I dont think I will find any use for that

How about a pot of boiling water on a hotplate.
In that pot put a 3 neck reaction vessel with a rounded bottom that is being sold on eBay for about 30 dollars.
I already have one of these 3 neck vessels and I would like to do my next refining like that
Any reason why I haven't heard anyone doing this


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## 4metals (Mar 14, 2011)

Most people heat round bottom flasks with a heating mantle.


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## golddie (Mar 15, 2011)

Hi 4metals 
How is the heating mantle used and why is it better than a pot of boiling water.
It looks like there is no water in the heating mantle
Is it more efficient than what I was saying and is it expensive
Thanks 


http://www.google.ca/images?q=heating+mantle.&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_0t_Tc3RIuuI0QGrlbjrCA&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=578


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## 4metals (Mar 15, 2011)

Unless you have the rings to set different spherical vessels on in a steam or water bath it is difficult to support them, and when you're done you are handling wet glass. Mantles are fabric, no water, they grip the contour of the flask and the heat transfer is efficient. Mantles cost more than a hot water bath though, but they can get hotter than boiling water but you won't need that much heat.


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## goldenchild (Mar 15, 2011)

4metals said:


> Mantles are fabric, no water, they grip the contour of the flask and the heat transfer is efficient. Mantles cost more than a hot water bath though, but they can get hotter than boiling water but you won't need that much heat.



You'd also have to be extra cautious in not creating boilovers and managing effervescence.


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## 4metals (Mar 15, 2011)

> You'd also have to be extra cautious in not creating boilovers and managing effervescence.


That is true no matter how you heat a reaction, using a watch glass and never filling a vessel more than half way for a reaction goes a long way to that end. That is true whether your lots are big or small.


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