# E Scrap straight to AR ,my biggest mistake.



## GodLiegeman (Mar 1, 2022)

So,my first try to recover gold scrap.About 2kg in total,ram sticks,boards ,pins and etc. Added everything to my container-1.5 L water,scraps, 1L nitric acid and by my dumbest mistake 0.5 l muriatic acid. 

Next morning,very nice turquoise color. No foils,check the bottle,face palm.

Now I will explain what I did.Tests:

1.Sample 200ml, added Urea to neutralise Nitric. SC negative. Precipitated with SMB. Have insane white layer on bottom,filtered.Remaining solution blue, SC positive (!!?) .Boiled it of and decanted multiple times with water, solids reduced. Dissolved in muriatic, changed color to deep green. Filtered solids,washed ,dissolved in AR ,Urea added.SC negative.

2.Sample 150ml. Added 50 ml muriatic,instant change color to deep green. Added urea. Precipitation with SMB, reaction very strong.Bubbles forming ,stoped when intense smell came and reaction almost not visible.NO precipitation at all.SC positive.( Assumed due to excess gas)

3.Sample 40 ml. Added urea .Small amount of sulfuric acid. No precipitation of white powder. Adding some muriatic, change color to deep green.

4. 200ml added urea.Peace of copper to solution. Washed of cement from copper(white and black colours) , dissolving solids in AR. Very small sample. Added urea( multiple stages of addition and testing) SC negative.

Question is. My base solution still have some solids on bottom after course filtering and siting still for couple of days,maybe gold is there ? 
Why does solution change from blue to green when I add some muriatic to it? 

What should I do to my base sollution and in general how do I recover ?

And what can give SC false positive ?


----------



## aeytr (Mar 1, 2022)

Filter your liquid. evaporate it and make a syrup. Add equal amount of hcl and put a copper bar into it. your solution is dirty as trash now. Best way is cementing with copper.

i m not suspecting from solids but keep it.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Mar 1, 2022)

aeytr said:


> Filter your liquid. evaporate it and make a syrup. Add equal amount of hcl and put a copper bar into it. your solution is dirty as trash now. Best way is cementing with copper.
> 
> i m not suspecting from solids but keep it.


I have to disagree. He made AR. There are still solids remaining. Any gold that dissolved would almost certainly have cemented out on the remaining solids. Since he has had negative stannous tests on all his experiments on the solution, I'd bet the gold is among the solids.

Dave


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 1, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> I have to disagree. He made AR. There are still solids remaining. Any gold that dissolved would almost certainly have cemented out on the remaining solids. Since he has had negative stannous tests on all his experiments on the solution, I'd bet the gold is among the solids.
> 
> Dave


I will try filtering the solids and try to dissolve sample in AR to test with SC or should I first boil of and decant solids sample?


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 1, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> So,my first try to recover gold scrap.About 2kg in total,ram sticks,boards ,pins and etc. Added everything to my container-1.5 L water,scraps, 1L nitric acid and by my dumbest mistake 0.5 l muriatic acid.
> 
> Next morning,very nice turquoise color. No foils,check the bottle,face palm.
> 
> ...


Note: base solution is turquoise color.Boiling of sample makes it deep green as well as in previous experiments adding more muriatic.Same result ,different approaches.Maybe this information is useful to you guys.


----------



## aeytr (Mar 2, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> I will try filtering the solids and try to dissolve sample in AR to test with SC or should I first boil of and decant solids sample?


Its up to you. Filter your solution and start evaporating. Its gonna take some time. Meantime you can work on solids.


----------



## Martijn (Mar 2, 2022)

_1.Sample 200ml, added Urea to neutralise Nitric. _
Why didn't you neutralize the free nitric with peanut butter or orange juice?
Or did you just copy a YouTube disinfo 'heres how to harakiri' movie? 

Really people: stop using urea!!!


----------



## Martijn (Mar 2, 2022)

But to give some real advise: STOP! Study. 

And: 








When In Doubt, Cement It Out


When In Doubt, Cement It Out This is advice I often give to new members who find they've created a bit of a mess, and they're wondering how to recover their values (gold, silver, PGMs, etc.). Perhaps they've followed a process they've seen on YouTube that left out some important details...




goldrefiningforum.com





To comment *Aetyr's* advice: 
Give some background info why certain steps need to be followed in your opinion. 
We try to avoid the 'do this, do that' process tutorials and instead make people understand what's going on. Knowledge is power. Youtube is lethal. 
Just repeating your advice: evaporate and do this, do that does not help anyone in any way. I for one don't understand why that would be necessary in this particular case. 

It's am attitude which sustains the Urea misconception e.g. 
Please consider contributing differently. 

Martijn.


----------



## kurtak (Mar 2, 2022)

aeytr said:


> *Filter your liquid. evaporate it and make a syrup*. Add equal amount of hcl and put a copper bar into it. your solution is dirty as trash now. Best way is cementing with copper.
> 
> i m not suspecting from solids but keep it.



Per the bold print (above) - there is *absolutely NO reason* to do that --- his stannous test *is negative* - which means there is no gold (or other PMs) in the solution 

Therefore he can simply treat the solution as *base metal WASTE *

As Dave (FrugalRefiner) said any PMs that may have dissolved have already cemented out & are now in the solids

Kurt


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 2, 2022)

kurtak said:


> Per the bold print (above) - there is *absolutely NO reason* to do that --- his stannous test *is negative* - which means there is no gold (or other PMs) in the solution
> 
> Therefore he can simply treat the solution as *base metal WASTE *
> 
> ...


I think that excess Nitric acid prevents SC to show properly.So I will separate solids and treat all liquids as described in book as evaporation process and test again.


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 2, 2022)

Martijn said:


> But to give some real advise: STOP! Study.
> 
> And:
> 
> ...


As I understood from Hoke's book. I do evaporation process couple of cycles,filter. And add peace of copper to cement gold and other less reactive metals?


----------



## kurtak (Mar 2, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> *I think that excess Nitric acid prevents SC to show properly*.So I will separate solids and treat all liquids as described in book as evaporation process and test again.


Per the bold print - that just is not true !!!

if there is gold in solution you *WILL* get a positive test with your stannous

If there is excess (free) nitric in the solution you will still get a positive (if gold is in solution) it is just that the positive result of the test will "*fade away*" as a result of the free nitric --- it takes time for it to fade away - how much time depends (somewhat) on how much free nitric

bottom line - if gold is in solution - stannous will *always* give you a positive test result - even if it only shows up for a minute or two

Kurt


----------



## kurtak (Mar 2, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> As I understood from Hoke's book. I do evaporation process couple of cycles,filter. And add peace of copper to cement gold and other less reactive metals?



If you do not get a positive stannous test result - do not waste your time chasing something that is not there !!!

If no positive stannous test - that means your gold is still in the solids - chase that instead of the solution

Kurt


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 2, 2022)

kurtak said:


> If you do not get a positive stannous test result - do not waste your time chasing something that is not there !!!
> 
> If no positive stannous test - that means your gold is still in the solids - chase that instead of the solution
> 
> Kurt


Okey,now I am in total loss.I did evaporation cycle three times(by Hoke's book) with small amount of sulfuric acid.Syrup came out as green-brown. Took sample, diluted with distilled water. Took SC test, almost instant super dark brown. Decided to take bigger sample, diluted with water. Added SMB. Absolutely NO precipitation,solution turned turquoise. And SC is NEGATIVE. So I am lost, completely. How the f can I get Positive SC if no urea or SMB was added and negative after with ZERO precipitation.Solution is crystal clear.


----------



## kurtak (Mar 2, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> Took sample, diluted with distilled water. Took SC test, almost instant super dark *brown. *


Per the bold print - *brown* is *NOT* a positive for gold - brown is what is know as a *false* positive

A positive for gold is *always* a purple to so purple it looks black

Kurt


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 2, 2022)

kurtak said:


> Per the bold print - *brown* is *NOT* a positive for gold - brown is what is know as a *false* positive
> 
> A positive for gold is *always* a purple to so purple it looks black
> 
> Kurt


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 2, 2022)

So I assume there is nothing in my sollution and gold is in solids?


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 2, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> So,my first try to recover gold scrap.About 2kg in total,ram sticks,boards ,pins and etc. Added everything to my container-1.5 L water,scraps, 1L nitric acid and by my dumbest mistake 0.5 l muriatic acid.
> 
> Next morning,very nice turquoise color. No foils,check the bottle,face palm.
> 
> ...


So,as you gentlemen said in. Solids is the most possible to contain my gold.Question is, do I dissolve them in nitric acid ,decant and boil of couple of times in water and try refine again. Or boil of in water, decant and dissolve in muriatic. And start refining again?


----------



## ZiegenSauger (Mar 2, 2022)

Been there, done that, and had my ass handed over on a tray by Bitcher and other colleagues 
Since it still aches, I have not only compiled dozens of threads organized by specifics, I also have Hooke, my Uni books, and my notebook where I follow very deliberately intentional steps for the silliest things. Mistakes are rare.
First: stop it all, take a step back, breathe and clear your mind of any and everything you think you know.
Second: filter and make sure to have a nice separation of solids and liquids.
Third: cook the liquid to a syrup-like consistency.
Fourth: dilute just a bit with HCL and add to a resting container with clean pure copper pieces, wait a couple of weeks.
Fifth: wash the solids clean with water, make sure all solution is gone.
Sixth: cook in HCl (and HCl only) until the last boil is transparently clean.
Seventh: wash with water several times.
Eighth: it is time for HNO3 like 3:1 with water, here you will have to observe, make sure you go until the solution is clean again
Ninth: wash, wash, wash, wash in hot water.
Tenth: process in AR

What is my line of thinking: since my hobby became serious, I am optimizing everything I can to reduce costs. The worst cost for me is HNO3.
I dedicate a considerable amount of attention to whatever comes before the first A/R (I even replace some of the refining steps with poor man's AR, strong A/P, or HCl/Clorine). There are unexpected situations, accidents, etc.

So I take steps back and try to bring everything to a clean slate. In my case, I have been using more H2SO4 for some of the recovery steps (I want to get rid of everything that is not Au and PGMs).

This case is a good example to take a few steps back, reset, try to separate the more possible, try to clean the more possible to remain only with refining material.


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 3, 2022)

ZiegenSauger said:


> Been there, done that, and had my ass handed over on a tray by Bitcher and other colleagues
> Since it still aches, I have not only compiled dozens of threads organized by specifics, I also have Hooke, my Uni books, and my notebook where I follow very deliberately intentional steps for the silliest things. Mistakes are rare.
> First: stop it all, take a step back, breathe and clear your mind of any and everything you think you know.
> Second: filter and make sure to have a nice separation of solids and liquids.
> ...


So as I understand I should treat my current solids together with the ones I will cement out from solution?


----------



## kurtak (Mar 3, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> So I assume there is nothing in my sollution and gold is in solids?


correct - nothing in the solution

Edit to add; - at least as I am seeing --- however - for now just set that solution aside *AND DO NOTHING* we *MAY* come back to it 

In other words *SLOW DOWN* until things can be discussed more - *YOUR gold is not going to go anywhere* but if you keep moving forward without *FIRST completely discussing this* you more likely then not just *going to a bigger & Bigger & BIGGER MESS !!!*

In other words *STOP *until WE ask more questions & WE get more answers back from you !!!

Do you understand !!!

Kurt


----------



## kurtak (Mar 3, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> So,as you gentlemen said in. Solids is the most possible to contain my gold.Question is, do I dissolve them in nitric acid ,decant and boil of couple of times in water and try refine again. Or boil of in water, decant and dissolve in muriatic. And start refining again?



As I said in my last post *STOP - do NOTHING* until we more completely discuss this

You ether want help - *or NOT*

Kurt


----------



## Martijn (Mar 3, 2022)

Now there's a typo that could be interpreted as offensive...  


ZiegenSauger said:


> Been there, done that, and had my ass handed over on a tray by Bitcher and other colleagues


I'm sure you didn't mean to.


----------



## kurtak (Mar 3, 2022)

ZiegenSauger said:


> *First: stop it all, take a step back,* breathe and clear your mind of any and everything you think you know.



Per the bold print - right now that was the best advice you could give him

BUT - then you went on with nine other things to do anyway - much of which is NOT good advice

In other words you tell him to STOP - but then tell him things to do anyway - that are not the best advice --- because we don't yet have enough info from him


ZiegenSauger said:


> Second: filter and make sure to have a nice separation of solids and liquids.



I believe he has already done that


ZiegenSauger said:


> Third: cook the liquid to a syrup-like consistency.



Why in the world would you have him do that when he has had a negative stannous test

& besides - he was already given that advice - so he already did that - & still has a negative stannous test 

Why are you advising him to do it again ???


ZiegenSauger said:


> Fourth: dilute just a bit with HCL and add to a resting container with clean pure copper pieces, wait a couple of weeks.


Same answer I just posted above - no reason to do that when the stannous test is negative

Besides that - cementing with copper does not take a couple weeks - IF (the BIG IF) there is gold in solution - it will cement out in a couple hours


ZiegenSauger said:


> Fifth: wash the solids clean with water, make sure all solution is gone.
> Sixth: cook in HCl (and HCl only) until the last boil is transparently clean.
> Seventh: wash with water several times.



That is the gold washing process --- but FIRST we need to find the gold


ZiegenSauger said:


> Eighth: it is time for HNO3 like 3:1 with water, here you will have to observe, make sure you go until the solution is clean again



If you do that after doing the above washes you are likely to dissolve SOME gold because you are likely to have SOME TRACES of HCl after doing the above 


ZiegenSauger said:


> Ninth: wash, wash, wash, wash in hot water.
> Tenth: process in AR



Again - we first need to find his gold --- until then - *he should do NOTHING*

In other words - all that above advice you gave him is only going to cause him to do things - before we solve the problems - which in turn is going to cause him to make an even bigger mess

Kurt


----------



## Martijn (Mar 3, 2022)

Following up on our advice to *STOP*, lets start providing us with some pictures of the mess you've made and we can go from there.

I'm interested in the "solids" and the "etc" you've dissolved. we need to know before we can help.

And please be complete in you description! If you leave out an E-waste item because you're embarrassed to tell us for example, we might not be able help you solve it.

Throw all solutions together in the stockpot and let that take care of it.

*Study:* Dealing with Waste

There are no pm's in there if the SC test was negative, as Kurt explained.
Set the solids aside and study.
If you have a question or you think you understand something, ask us here in this thread *BEFORE* you attempt anything with chemicals.
Seriously: *STOP!*

The different steps you took and the questions you've asked indicate you do not understand what you are doing.
so again: *STOP!* Take Kurts advice.
We will guide you in the right direction, but keep holding our hands while we guide you and don't try to start walking on your own yet!


----------



## kurtak (Mar 3, 2022)

First of all - we need to back up to the beginning

You said ---------



GodLiegeman said:


> So,my first try to recover gold scrap.About *2kg in total,ram sticks,boards ,pins and etc.*



Per the bold print - so you put not just 2 kg of RAM sticks in AR - but a combination of RAM - other boards - pins & etc. that all totaled 2 kg ?

Is that right ?

If so - besides the RAM - what were the other boards - what kind of pins - fully plated pins or partly plated pins &/or pins with no plating - & just what else does etc. include

In other words - about how much was RAM - about how much & what kind of "other" boards - about how much pins & what kind of pins & were the pins separated from their plastic housing or still in the plastic housing - & what is etc. 

Even though you have already put this all in acid (AR) - it would be good to see pictures of ALL OF THIS that is left over as it is now

Please post pictures

Kurt


----------



## Alondro (Mar 3, 2022)

Martijn said:


> But to give some real advise: STOP! Study.
> 
> And:
> 
> ...


I got a 'poor man's aqua regia kit' many years ago, like 25! It also told people to use urea. Funny thing is, if you're doing gold jewelry, it works for that. Because the solution is already so high in gold, and the calculations are done to keep the reaction as close mole-to-mole of reagents and metal, there's little nitric left afterward. Therefore, the urea brings the solution's pH up a notch and the SMB precipitation works perfectly. 

This is NOT the case with ore and e-waste, where the reagents are being used massively in excess and there are huge amounts of other metals. Urea is useless in those reactions, unless you just need to raise the pH a little.


----------



## Martijn (Mar 4, 2022)

I disagree. The difference is not in the types of source metal you're refining but the amount of nitric or nitrates used. I don't see a difference between e-waste and jewelry. There is a difference in operator maybe, not the process if carried out properly. 
Experienced e-waste refiners also know how to separate metals without wasting nitric. 

In 'your' case (you think) it 'works' because of the fact you calculate and can guesstimate a little better how much precious metals have to be dissolved so there is little to no free nitric left in solution and the urea only has to eliminate NO gas in solution. Which has no function in my opinion. 
Evaporating a little bit would do the same thing.
The urea does not react differenlty because the source of scrap metal is different. 
So i still advice to stop urinating in your gold juice.
A stamp to mark it's yours will do fine.


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 4, 2022)

kurtak said:


> First of all - we need to back up to the beginning
> 
> You said ---------
> 
> ...


Sadly I threw it out already(leftovers of board and what was left) I did removed as much non plated metal as possible,solder points etc. It was about 300g ram pins.1.3kg SIM like boards, about 400 g of pins in plastic housings and lastly copper plates 15mmx15mmx2mm fully plated with gold and by the looks very thick plated.No base metals vere left after dissolving.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Mar 4, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> Sadly I threw it out already(leftovers of board and what was left) I did removed as much non plated metal as possible,solder points etc. It was about 300g ram pins.1.3kg SIM like boards, about 400 g of pins in plastic housings and lastly copper plates 15mmx15mmx2mm fully plated with gold and by the looks very thick plated.No base metals vere left after dissolving.


Plenty inside the boards, and most likely, that is where your Gold was.


----------



## Martijn (Mar 4, 2022)

Especially pins in plastic take longer to dissolve and will cement your values on the base metal inside the plastic leaving it stuck in there.
The lesson learned is worth more than the gold lost.
Never throw a bunch of different e-waste together. Different approach for each type, some you can combine together in e.g. AP.
Save your nitric for refining.


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 4, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Plenty inside the boards, and most likely, that is where your Gold was.


No,I checked every peace.Only fiber glass and empty plastic.Trust me on this.


----------



## Alondro (Mar 4, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Especially pins in plastic take longer to dissolve and will cement your values on the base metal inside the plastic leaving it stuck in there.
> The lesson learned is worth more than the gold lost.
> Never throw a bunch of different e-waste together. Different approach for each type, some you can combine together in e.g. AP.
> Save your nitric for refining.


Yep, I watched and listened to SO MANY vids from dozens of scrappers for 8 months before I even began, learning about each component, how they've changed over the years in composition, how to sort even the same types based on materials used in them year-to-year (which is CRITICAL for capacitors, they have so many types! Modern large capacitors are pretty much garbage. MLCCs after the year 2000 are useful only for people who are skilled at nickel recovery, which is a consideration with nickel now passing $12/lb, roughly 2.5 times the current price of copper.

Chips (especially the long IC chips with many leads from older boards), I found out, often have a higher amount of silver in them than any other PM... so the general 'wash them with HCl' to remove base metals can be a very bad idea, as that will create silver chloride that will be almost impossible to recover from the mess of chip dust. They also frequently have palladium-plated tips on the inside portions where the nano-wires attach... which themselves are unpredictable: gold, palladium, platinum. So you must assume ALL of them are present in a random bag of mixed IC chips.

I'll be trying a batch of crushed chips with mild sulfuric acid first, then more concentrated sulfuric (once I have my SO2 recovery apparatus setup! I plan to get as much life out of my reagents as physics and chemistry allows!) Any silver and palladium dissolving there can then be cemented out on copper and refined (some other metals will cement out, but in general the Ag and Pd will be much more concentrated after this cementing and easier to purify). Gold and platinum, conversely, will not be touched. So those metals will be left in the chip mush for traditional gold and platinum recovery methods, with little other metal remaining. 

The HIGHLY toxic solution full of many many transition metals from the sulfuric steps will be cemented with iron to recover as much copper as possible, then evaporated, and roasted into oxide powder over modest heat (driving off the sulfate mainly as SO2, which can be enhanced by mixing with carbon with an oxygen feed or mixing in some sodium carbonate). Again, the gas capture apparatus will grab the fumes.

Ideally, I'd have preferred to use nitric acid, since nitrates decompose so nicely. But the sheer amount of goo generated from using nitrate on e-waste (tin, aluminum, bismuth, and a few other metals and metalloids form insoluble sludge in nitric) makes it implausible.


----------



## ZiegenSauger (Mar 4, 2022)

Hello! 
First off, apologies I misspelled Butcher tremendously wrong, don't mean to be disrespectful even a bit.
Sorry I was not clear: you have two batches to treat separately: the solids and the solution. Don't mix them together anymore, from now on you treat them independently and never forget your experiment journal. Good luck!!!!


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 4, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Especially pins in plastic take longer to dissolve and will cement your values on the base metal inside the plastic leaving it stuck in there.
> The lesson learned is worth more than the gold lost.
> Never throw a bunch of different e-waste together. Different approach for each type, some you can combine together in e.g. AP.
> Save your nitric for refining.


So,to clarify I will explain my steps as now.First of all,I do not take ireversible steps.So,to begin with.I filtered solids from solution.I boiled of 5L of solution with added 100ml(30%) sulfuric acid to about 700-800ml. When cooled it crystallized to slushy(photos added).Solids remain as is(photos added).I did not dried them fully as Hoke's book said because they maintain Tin sludge.( Small amount).Now, SC tests.My SC was made with 60ml 30% HCl and 13g Sn. I did made sample of 5ml SC and diluted with 5ml 30% HCl just for reference to original SC.(BTW SC is 2 days old) When taken from "syrup".(photos added)Original-I do get instant white spot,then edges start to become black and bubble a bit(yes) and after couple of minutes very small amount of by my eyes purple leach from edges(very little).Diluted- instant brown and becomes white(dies). When doing spoon test.Original-milk emerges,becomes black with quite bubbly reaction and precipitates a lot of crystals. Diluted- almost no reaction.

So,how do I treat my solids?
I assume it's worth cementing out my solution after filtering out the crystals.
Can my SC be bad if it does give false positive? 
What is that reaction with SC and syrup?
To clarify I do not have gold solution to test SC.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Mar 4, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> No,I checked every peace.Only fiber glass and empty plastic.Trust me on this.


It is in the traces inside the pcb, cemented on the copper and anywhere else there is a bit of base metal. It's a dark brownish powder a d do not look like gold. So it was there until you threw it away.


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 4, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> It is in the traces inside the pcb, cemented on the copper and anywhere else there is a bit of base metal. It's a dark brownish powder a d do not look like gold. So it was there until you threw it away.


I understand that and repeat myself.Pcbs were SIM like.I left no peace that had any metal on it.Only ones with pure fiberglass.The ones with any kind on material on were left to fully dissolve.Plastics with pins were checked to see hole thru to determine no metal were left.All the copper peaces undissolved were shaken and washed until I saw pure copper colour.Even tough I failed completely ,my goal is to learn and recover whatever I can.I does hurt because I spent almost 2 years collecting that and it didn't cost me anything accept time.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Mar 4, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> I understand that and repeat myself.Pcbs were SIM like.I left no peace that had any metal on it.Only ones with pure fiberglass.The ones with any kind on material on were left to fully dissolve.Plastics with pins were checked to see hole thru to determine no metal were left.All the copper peaces undissolved were shaken and washed until I saw pure copper colour.Even tough I failed completely ,my goal is to learn and recover whatever I can.I does hurt because I spent almost 2 years collecting that and it didn't cost me anything accept time.


So you split them open and inspected the copper traces inside the fiberglass?

The sim like PCBs did they have chips inside/on them, if so there might be gold in there too.

You do not need to see the metal for the cementing to happen. As long as it is wetted by the solution.


----------



## Alondro (Mar 4, 2022)

GodLiegeman said:


> I understand that and repeat myself.Pcbs were SIM like.I left no peace that had any metal on it.Only ones with pure fiberglass.The ones with any kind on material on were left to fully dissolve.Plastics with pins were checked to see hole thru to determine no metal were left.All the copper peaces undissolved were shaken and washed until I saw pure copper colour.Even tough I failed completely ,my goal is to learn and recover whatever I can.I does hurt because I spent almost 2 years collecting that and it didn't cost me anything accept time.


If all you're looking for is to recover gold, then the best option is to remove base metal with sulfuric acid. It won't touch gold at all. The foils will be left as solids. Then you wash them and the plastic/ceramics (since some foils will stick to them with several changes of hot distilled water, and then dissolve the gold using whatever method you can work with. 

The HCl-bleach method works very well with gold foils, and you just add a tiny amount of bleach to the HCl at a time (no more than 2-3 mls if you don't have a huge mass of foils) and swirl, until the foils are dissolved. Then it's filtering the junk out of the solution, and washing (save the first wash too, it has a relatively high amount of gold in it), heat outside in sun to remove excess chlorine, and then recover gold with SMB. Always let the soln sit overnight to settle, and bring it to a light boil if it refuses to settle. 

I did that method with a small test batch of old (1980's) fingers and pins, and got a full gram of gold from 100g starting material. It was nice dense light-brown powder.

I have about 6g total now of powder, and will be starting on a 1/2 pound batch soon of the highest-grade pins I've got and a little over 1lb of fingers.

Going to try to save nickel in addition to copper, since nickel prices are EXPLODING ($12/lb now!). But that's a complex process for later.


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 4, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> So you split them open and inspected the copper traces inside the fiberglass?
> 
> The sim like PCBs did they have chips inside/on them, if so there might be gold in there too.
> 
> You do not need to see the metal for the cementing to happen. As long as it is wetted by the solution.


Volatile information chips,single layer.Couple of transistors and gold plated contact areas.


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 4, 2022)

Alondro said:


> If all you're looking for is to recover gold, then the best option is to remove base metal with sulfuric acid. It won't touch gold at all. The foils will be left as solids. Then you wash them and the plastic/ceramics (since some foils will stick to them with several changes of hot distilled water, and then dissolve the gold using whatever method you can work with.
> 
> The HCl-bleach method works very well with gold foils, and you just add a tiny amount of bleach to the HCl at a time (no more than 2-3 mls if you don't have a huge mass of foils) and swirl, until the foils are dissolved. Then it's filtering the junk out of the solution, and washing (save the first wash too, it has a relatively high amount of gold in it), heat outside in sun to remove excess chlorine, and then recover gold with SMB. Always let the soln sit overnight to settle, and bring it to a light boil if it refuses to settle.
> 
> ...


Totally out of topic my friend. Read the post description.Everything went to AR by my mistake.Thats what it's about. How to recover from.


----------



## GodLiegeman (Mar 7, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> So you split them open and inspected the copper traces inside the fiberglass?
> 
> The sim like PCBs did they have chips inside/on them, if so there might be gold in there too.
> 
> You do not need to see the metal for the cementing to happen. As long as it is wetted by the solution.


Single layer chips,gold contacts and couple of small transistors


----------



## orvi (Mar 7, 2022)

Doing AR on the bulk is one of the most serious mistakes, worse is only straight nitric. 
Time could reverse the mess sometimes. If you soak all the stuff in AR solution for quite a long time, eventually everything will dissolve and gold will be in solution. Sadly, quite a bit of plastic and electronic components start to decay in that oxidating acidic conditions, leaching various junk into the solution.
Sometimes it isn´t a big deal, sometimes it is determinal.
Anyway... You experienced the most expensive depopulation method  just joking, I hope you will get your values out 

For first, I would personally try to continue with AR if the bad decision was commited already. Decant the spent solution, replenish with fresh HCl, add nitric, let it sit for two-three days, decant... And in the end, pool every gold containing leach together, cement on copper and go from there.


----------



## Geo (Apr 5, 2022)

Did ALL metal dissolve in the AR solution? If not, any precious metals will still be in the material. If the tiniest bit of metal remained in the material, leach it again in AR and test the resulting solution with stannous chloride. If all metal did dissolve, Filter the solution and dilute it by adding it to 3X the starting volume with water (tap water will work). Add steel wool which will cement all the metal from solution, including copper. After the solution is bare of precious metals proven by a negative stannous chloride test, allow everything to settle and decant the spent solution. Roast the solids to remove any vestiges of acids and organics. Steel itself contains carbon. The carbon will not dissolve and needs to be removed as well. Roasting will remove the carbon left behind, if it's heated hot enough. After roasting, redissolve the solids in the smallest amount of acids needed. Test the solution with stannous chloride. Proceed by dropping gold first with ferrous sulfate. Ferrous sulfate is perfect for dropping gold from contaminated solution that contains many different metal salts.


----------

