# Sodium peroxide alkali fusion



## Platdigger (Nov 18, 2008)

If I wanted to do a sodium peroxide alkali fusion on some cat substrate...

1 What ratio of sodium peroxide to caustic soda would I use?

2 What temperature range would I need? 

3 What could be the dangers of this? and

4 Were could I find some sodium peroxide?

Randy


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## lazersteve (Nov 19, 2008)

Randy,

Here's some information I had previously posted from the article on my website:

Peroxide Fusion

It doesn't mention anything about sodium hydroxide.

I hope this gets you going in the right direction.

The same thread has some good post in it also.

Steve


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## Platdigger (Nov 19, 2008)

Thanks Steve, know were I may get some of the peroxide?
Randy


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## lazersteve (Nov 19, 2008)

Randy,

I've read that sodium percarbonate will decompose into sodium peroxide when heated (sorry I'll have to find the reference later). Percarbonate is a major ingredient in Oxiclean (sp?).

Lou also sent me another method via PM:



Lou said:


> I have made it by using a saturated solution of NaOH in ethanol to which concentrated (30%) hydrogen peroxide is added. Na2O2 will precipitate out, and this can be boiled again in azeotropic EtOH to clean it up and remove some water.




Steve


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## LittleJohnnyH2SO4 (Dec 23, 2008)

Na2O2 from a solution with water will be a hydrate and cannot be dehydrated for use in a fusion, as sodium peroxide is very hygroscopic. 

Did Lou use his in a fusion sucessfully, or make it for something else?
Heating sodium percarbonate, will just outgas water and oxygen. leaving you with washing soda. Buying from a chem supplier would be very expensive as noted in the other thread.

As for hazards...http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/nadeflag.htm You tell me. :shock:


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## Lou (Dec 23, 2008)

Howdy Johnny!


To be honest, I don't recall using it for a fusion and I wonder if excess water would have adverse effects (it's a fusion after all) except insofar as determining exactly how much peroxide you've added.

As for removing water, there are numerous ways to remove it, as you may guess, azeotropic removal of water, vacuum dessication over a powerful dehydrating agent.

As I recall, my method gave the octahydrate and that (I believe) can be dehydrated down to dihydrate or monohydrate.

If you want it anhydrous, there is always the high temperature route with sodium metal. This was something I could have done, but did not do as I thought it an unnecessary hassle.


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## LittleJohnnyH2SO4 (Dec 23, 2008)

Note on my earlier post: Sodium percarbonate is not a peroxide compound per-se, but an addition compound between sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide with some water of crystallization. The net effect of heating this should be the same as heating alkaline hydrogen peroxide solution, which is to say, rapid decomposition to oxygen.

Sodium peroxide octahydrate: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=10&page=1#pid78245

"It melts in its own water of crystallization at 30 degrees and decomposes to yield oxygen. If kept for a long period over sulfuric acid in a vacuum dessicator, the 8-hydrate loses 6 molecules of water to form the 2-hydrate, Na2O2.2H2O"

I take that to mean that it cannot be heated without decomposing, nor can the anhydrous form be made from the hydrate. I wonder if the compound is really just an addition compound stabilized by being crystalline (like percarbonate).

Wikipedia also lists ozonolysis of sodium iodide in contact with Pt or Pd followed by sublimation of the iodine as a method to make the anhydrous compound at room temperature and without sodium metal. Again, all of this is far too expensive to consider for refining, even though it is interesting.


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