# gold recovery



## KAREL Charvat (Oct 19, 2022)

I have recently tried to refine 18k gold to 24k with Aqua Regia process and I was not successful, reason being local 18k gold is green due to high content of silver, well over 10%. I then followed system of inquarting gold with copper (50% x50%) and then refining it with nitric and hydrochloric acid. When I started everything look OK, solution turn dark green and within 10 hrs. all gold and copper particles been dissolved. After acid reaction stop, I have added Bicarb Sodium and Urea, solution started releasing acid gasses, I have warm up the solution to speed it up. By adding precipitants color of solution turn dark blue, after while precipitation stopped I I was left with dark blue mud after researching it I have found few gold particles, I have started with 55g gold and I have recovered 14g of below 9 carat gold. I have saved all residues during refining and now I am trying to find solution to recover lost gold, with original calculation I should have been able to recover about 43g of 24 carats of gold. Question is, how do I doit?
Thanks.


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## FrugalRefiner (Oct 19, 2022)

Have you tested your solution with stannous chloride to see if there is still gold in solution?

There are several things in your procedure that I would not agree with, like adding copper to inquart, and adding sodium bicarbonate and urea. But we can come back to that. Let's first determine if you have any gold in solution.

Dave


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## Alondro (Oct 19, 2022)

Silver does not make gold turn green. It simply makes the gold more pale yellow until at higher percentages it will turn mostly silvery-colored.

COPPER makes gold turn green, and AR should dissolve that with ease.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 19, 2022)

Alondro said:


> Silver does not make gold turn green. It simply makes the gold more pale yellow until at higher percentages it will turn mostly silvery-colored.
> 
> COPPER makes gold turn green, and AR should dissolve that with ease.


I kind of disagree, Copper makes Gold red, Electrum are often considered green gold and that is a Gold-Silver alloy. 
An alloy of 75% Gold 15% Silver 6% Cu and 4% Cd are dark green Gold.


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## Martijn (Oct 19, 2022)




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## Alondro (Oct 19, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I kind of disagree, Copper makes Gold red, Electrum are often considered green gold and that is a Gold-Silver alloy.
> An alloy of 75% Gold 15% Silver 6% Cu and 4% Cd are dark green Gold.


I'm thinking of low Au content cheap jewelry (5K), where the copper is so high it starts to make the greenish corrosion.


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## cejohnsonsr1 (Oct 20, 2022)

The first step after inquartation should have been removal of everything that isn’t gold with distilled water and Nitric. Not AR. You can’t refine until you recover. All you did was dissolve everything into a mixed up solution of all the metals without removing any of them from the equation. Cement it all out, melt into shot or flake and start over using distilled water and Nitric. Sreetips has several videos showing how and explaining why.


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## sketcho (Oct 20, 2022)

cejohnsonsr1 said:


> The first step after inquartation should have been removal of everything that isn’t gold with distilled water and Nitric. Not AR. You can’t refine until you recover. All you did was dissolve everything into a mixed up solution of all the metals without removing any of them from the equation. Cement it all out, melt into shot or flake and start over using distilled water and Nitric. Sreetips has several videos showing how and explaining why.


Exactly my thoughts! Remove all base metals before refinning ! Sreetips videos is just the best! He has made scrap gold refinning simple and straightforward


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## Martijn (Oct 20, 2022)

I would skip the 'melt into shot' step and go straight for dissolving in diluted nitric. 
Carefull with nitric additions on metal powder. Slow and small amounts on low heat to avoid boil over and BFRC.


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## Martijn (Oct 20, 2022)

sketcho said:


> Exactly my thoughts! Remove all base metals before refinning ! Sreetips videos is just the best! He has made scrap gold refinning simple and straightforward


Sreetips is one of the best out there. He does however make small mistakes every now and then, but he shows them and lets us learn from it. 

One thing I keep noticing in his videos is that he cools with ice and then adds SMB without filtering any AgCl out first. 
Isn't it supposed to be: cool and dilute to push out AgCl and then filter? 

Martijn.


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## cejohnsonsr1 (Oct 20, 2022)

Martijn said:


> Sreetips is one of the best out there. He does however make small mistakes every now and then, but he shows them and lets us learn from it.
> 
> One thing I keep noticing in his videos is that he cools with ice and then adds SMB without filtering any AgCl out first.
> Isn't it supposed to be: cool and dilute to push out AgCl and then filter?
> ...


He usually uses ice either to cool the solution prior to precipitation or to keep the solution cool if there’s more than about 3 oz. Precipitation with SMB is an exothermic reaction and produces quite a bit of heat. The silver that precipitates from cooling should all be removed by filtration, which always precedes precipitation.


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## Martijn (Oct 21, 2022)

makes sense, large quantities of gold.. I don't have that 'problem'


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Martijn said:


> makes sense, large quantities of gold.. I don't have that 'problem'


I have the same challenge, the yellow stuff simply do not float in my direction


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Martijn said:


> makes sense, large quantities of gold.. I don't have that 'problem'





Yggdrasil said:


> I have the same challenge, the yellow stuff simply do not float in my direction


Meu amigo bom dia, agradeço por todo conhecimento adquirido neste fórum. Me ajude por favor não sei se postei no lugar certo desculpe se errei, mas estou um pouco desesperado.

Me surgiu um problema 
Peço que me ajudem por favor.
Estou trabalhando em uma solução com cerca de 6 onças, sei que deveria ter dividido em 3 lotes porém não o fiz. O material é dedos de ouro foram bem limpos eliminei o máximo de cobre e estanho com lavagens a nítrico, água quente, e clorídrico separadamente. 

Solução 500ml de ácido clorídrico 37% e fui adicionando nítrico de 20ml +20ml +10ml e no final 5ml
Até as folhas de au limpas dissolver.

Quando adicionei MBS ouve uma enfervecencia e o MBS, disolvia e não trocava ions com a solução liberando ouro. Acredito que a solução esteja extremamente ácida. 

Tentei erradamente adicionar um pouco de soda cáustica para elevar o ph e derrubar o ouro com um pouco de zinco a reação continua enfervecendo sem resultado de precipitação indicando ácidos Hno3 livre na solução. 
Eu sempre precipito as minhas águas regias AR a quente  muito quente. Será que isso pode gerar problema? Tenho uma solução de cerca de 2litros era 500ml no começo Acredito que a adição de água em excesso me prejudicou também. 

A solução de AR continua com positivo forte no teste de stanho 2
A evaporação, redução da solução e eliminação do hno3 pode me ajudar?

OBS: Deste mesmo material tirei 4 onças de au e não tive problemas, agora estou tendo me ajudem por favor.


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## Martijn (Oct 21, 2022)

I can only understand part of your problem but not all of it. Try to write it in English or use a translator. 
But it sounds like you still have all or part of your gold in solution and some free nitric. 

We really need to understand the details to help you.


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Martijn said:


> I can only understand part of your problem but not all of it. Try to write it in English or use a translator.
> But it sounds like you still have all or part of your gold in solution and some free nitric.
> 
> We really need to understand the details to help you.


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

My friend good morning, for all the knowledge acquired in this forum. Please help me, I don't know if I posted in the right place, sorry if I'm wrong, but I'm a little desperate.

I had a problem
I ask you to help me please.
I'm working on a solution about 6oz, I know it should have been completely different in 3 batches but I did. The material and gold fingers were well cleaned and as much copper and tin as possible with nitric, hot water and hydrochloric washes.

500ml solution of 37% hydrochloric acid and I was adding 20ml +20ml +10ml nitric and at the end 5ml
Until the clean au leaves dissolve.

When the MBS heard an effervescence and the MBS, it dissolved and did not exchange ions with the solution releasing gold. I believe the solution is extremely acidic.

I tried wrongly to add a little caustic soda to raise the and the gold with a little zinc in the reaction keeps boiling giving up the solution of free Hno3 direct solution.
I always rush my AR regal waters to hot very hot. Could this cause a problem? I have a solution of about 2 liters it was 500ml at the beginning I believe the addition of excess water harmed me too.

The reduction in AR continues with a strong positive in the stan 2 test
Can evaporation, solution solution and hno3 elimination help me?

OBS: This same material I took 4 ounces of au and it has no problems, now I'm having help me in favor.
Quote ReplyReport ••


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

My friend Martin you always help me with your posts on the forum, I do a lot of research on the forum

The precipitate is part of the au that I managed to recover. only precipitated a part, the solution was putting the gold back into the solution. Could this be the excess of free nitric acid in RA?

The precipitation was not completed because the precipitate is returning to the AR solution.

I started an evaporation of free nitric because I believe that's it. I cleaned the gold leaves very well with nitric oxide. Before dissolving in solution, I need to know if I'm on the right track.

help me please my friend i need to recover this gold to help my family.


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Martijn said:


> I can only understand part of your problem but not all of it. Try to write it in English or use a translator.
> But it sounds like you still have all or part of your gold in solution and some free nitric.
> 
> We really need to understand the details to help you.


I'm writing in English but it comes out in Brazilian Portuguese


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Junior2021 said:


> My friend Martin you always help me with your posts on the forum, I do a lot of research on the forum
> 
> The precipitate is part of the au that I managed to recover. only precipitated a part, the solution was putting the gold back into the solution. Could this be the excess of free nitric acid in RA?
> 
> ...


You need somehow to denox your solution.
The fact that the precipitate dissolves again indicate too much Nitric.
Do you have access to Sulfamic acid?
If not, do you have a button of Gold you can dissolve from?
If so, weigh the button and put it into the solution while hot. Let it be there til nothing more happens, add some more HCl. If there is no reaction, take the button out and weigh it so you know how much Gold the solution has “borrowed”. 
Now precipitate your Gold and weigh what was borrowed and put it back to the button.
The rest is your Gold from this batch.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Junior2021 said:


> I'm writing in English but it comes out in Brazilian Portuguese


Maybe some forum setting?


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Maybe some forum setting?


Help me please


Yggdrasil said:


> You need somehow to denox your solution.
> The fact that the precipitate dissolves again indicate too much Nitric.
> Do you have access to Sulfamic acid?
> If not, do you have a button of Gold you can dissolve from?
> ...


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Yes my friend I have access to sulfamic acid, I started a slow evaporation already 24 hours ago, but I will add more sulfamic acid. Thanks for helping


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Good afternoon friends
Does precipitation of gold in hot AR solution affect the gold's decision? Can it hinder the precipitation of gold?


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Junior2021 said:


> Yes my friend I have access to sulfamic acid, I started a slow evaporation already 24 hours ago, but I will add more sulfamic acid. Thanks for helping


For the Sulfamic acid to work correctly the solution needs to be 80+ centigrade, and take it sow so it do not foam up too much.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Junior2021 said:


> Good afternoon friends
> Does precipitation of gold in hot AR solution affect the gold's decision? Can it hinder the precipitation of gold?


Not exactly, but it redissolve just as fast as it precipitates out.
This is one of the places a SO2 generator works good, because the SO2 do not add anything to the solution.
This means you can use it directly.


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Not exactly, but it redissolve just as fast as it precipitates out.
> This is one of the places a SO2 generator works good, because the SO2 do not add anything to the solution.
> This means you can use it directly.


Thanks Yggdrasil por sua ajuda
I used direct sulfamic acid now undiluted in water H2O,
I'll do another addition in 1 hour.


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 21, 2022)

cejohnsonsr1 said:


> The first step after inquartation should have been removal of everything that isn’t gold with distilled water and Nitric. Not AR. You can’t refine until you recover. All you did was dissolve everything into a mixed up solution of all the metals without removing any of them from the equation. Cement it all out, melt into shot or flake and start over using distilled water and Nitric. Sreetips has several videos showing how and explaining wideos


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Yggdrasil Yggdrasil I started an evaporation of the solution thinking about the possibility of having an excess of nitric hno3 last night, it's been 24 hours.

I added sulfamic acid as recommended and proceeded with the evaporation of the hno3 in solution.

would it be ok after evaporation I add a few ml of HCL to renew the solution by heating and stirring well?

THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME MY FAMILY THANKS YOU.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Karel, what do you accomplish by quoting a reply without adding other information or question?


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Junior2021 said:


> Yggdrasil Yggdrasil I started an evaporation of the solution thinking about the possibility of having an excess of nitric hno3 last night, it's been 24 hours.
> 
> I added sulfamic acid as recommended and proceeded with the evaporation of the hno3 in solution.
> 
> ...


If you add Sulfamic to the solution when it is about 80-85 centigrade it should foam up if it has excess Nitric.
If it don't foam there should not be free Nitric and you can precipitate as normal.
And adding HCl to the solution will not do anything bad, it can be beneficial if the acidity is low (HCl is some how depleted).
But it should not really be needed.


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> If you add Sulfamic to the solution when it is about 80-85 centigrade it should foam up if it has excess Nitric.
> If it don't foam there should not be free Nitric and you can precipitate as normal.
> And adding HCl to the solution will not do anything bad, it can be beneficial if the acidity is low (HCl is some how depleted).
> But it should not really be needed.


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Good afternoon Yggdrasil I added sulfamic at 80°C, 90°C and there was no effervescence, I believe the addition of HCL is necessary to strengthen the reaction with MBS. Because I'm already evaporating this solution for 24 hours.

thank you my friend.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Junior, was there a question there?

Added to your quote


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 21, 2022)

cejohnsonsr1 said:


> The first step after inquartation should have been removal of everything that isn’t gold with distilled water and Nitric. Not AR. You can’t refine until you recover. All you did was dissolve everything into a mixed up solution of all the metals without removing any of them from the equation. Cement it all out, melt into shot or flake and start over using distilled water and Nitric. Sreetips has several videos showing how and explaining why.


Firstly I have started with AG, after it did not dissolve the gold and only cover gold flakes black residues, I have again smelted gold and made new flake which become again gold color, then I have deposit gold in nitric acid for about 30 minutes and added same amount of distill water for about 2 hours, than I washer gold and smelted with same amount gold, than I mix 1:3 with hydrochloric acid and deposit god in it. Left it over night to complete the reaction, when that stop there we no more gold flakes, all dissolved, only than I added small amounts of bicarb soda which wa to neutralize the acid and leave me with dak brown gold which is to be smelted, that did, all solution turn dark blue and that is what I have now.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> Firstly I have started with AG *it is Ag there is no element called AG.*, after it did not dissolve the gold and only cover gold flakes black residues *I do not understand your meaning here, do you mean that the Gold was covered with a black residue?* I have again smelted gold and made new flake which become again gold color, *did you add any Silver to this?* then I have deposit gold in nitric acid for about 30 minutes and added same amount of distill water for about 2 hours, than I washer gold and smelted with same amount gold, than I mix 1:3 with hydrochloric acid and deposit god in it. *This part made no sense to me at all, can you describe mire detailed and step by step? *Left it over night to complete the reaction, when that stop there we no more gold flakes, all dissolved,*this is good* only than I added small amounts of bicarb soda which wa to neutralize the acid and leave me with dak brown gold which is to be smelted, *why in the world did you do that, and where did you learn that? *that did, all solution turn dark blue and that is what I have now. *Have you tested the solution for Gold with Stannous?*



Sorry mate but it is very confusing to what you do and why you do it.
I’ll comment in the quote in bold.

I think it is wise that you put your solution and chemicals aside in a safe manner untill we can establish what happened and how to correct it.
Have you read C.M. Hokes book?
Have you studied the forum to establish what to do?

First I want you to describe in detail and step by step what you have done so far and if you remember the result of each step.
Then we can see if we can unfurl your mess and get some yellow metal from it.


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Thank you my friend Yggdrasil, without your help I wouldn't be able to do it. Thanks to Shiva for everything too 

yggdrasil you helped me to recover my gold with good will.

Thanks to your help I will be able to help feed my family for a long time.

I appreciate the existence of this FORUM without it I would not have evolved so much and courage to make such a large AU recovery for me about 10 troy ounces. Today I'm going to sleep because yesterday I couldn't sleep.

Thank you for your help.

View attachment 20221021_154051.mp4
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View attachment 20221021_154051.mp4
View attachment 20221021_154051.mp4
View attachment 20221021_154051.mp4


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Junior, was there a question there?
> 
> Added to your quote


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## Junior2021 (Oct 21, 2022)

Thank you my friend Yggdrasil, without your help I wouldn't be able to do it. Thanks to Shiva for everything too 

yggdrasil helped a lot to recover my gold with good will.

Thanks to your help I will be able to help
my family for a long time.

Thanks to FORUM GRF, without him I wouldn't have evolved so much and courage to make such a big AU recovery for me about 10 troy ounces. Today I'm going to sleep because yesterday I couldn't sleep. 

Thank you for your help.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Excellent.
I’m glad it worked out.
Enjoy your weekend


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## Junior2021 (Oct 22, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Excellent.
> I’m glad it worked out.
> Enjoy your weekend



Good night friend

it worked thank you

The other part of the precipitate needs to be melted but the gas is out and the store only works on Monday, I'll wait.

Then I'll merge it all into a gold bar.

The photo of the first part.

Great weekend Thank you


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 23, 2022)

Super


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 23, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Sorry mate but it is very confusing to what you do and why you do it.
> I’ll comment in the quote in bold.
> 
> I think it is wise that you put your solution and chemicals aside in a safe manner untill we can establish what happened and how to correct it.
> ...


In description of my process I have said AG, that is not correct it should be AG (aqua regia)


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 23, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> In description of my process I have said AG, that is not correct it should be AG (aqua regia)


Please do describe in detail what you have done.
Your description did not make much sense to me.
Please take it step by step so we can see if there is something obvious that need corrected.


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## FrugalRefiner (Oct 23, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> In description of my process I have said AG, that is not correct it should be AG (aqua regia)


Aqua regia is abbreviated as AR, not AG.

Dave


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 23, 2022)

I have started with 18k gold to refine it to 24k, I have used Nitric & Hydrochloric acid as described in Aqua regia process. After submerging gold pieces in solution, chemical reaction started, I have left it settle over night 12 hrs. In the morning I have notced that chemical reaction stopped , but gold pieces were there, covered in black. I went to see local jeweler and ask him for advice, He told me that local gold has about 15% of silver in it and that is preventing gold to dissolve, I have ask him how to correct it, he said I have to quatre gold with silver or copper 50 :50 portions , that iI did, new gold pieces I have covered with nitric acid and distilled water for about4 hrs. and than added hydrochloric acid 4:1 ratio. Chemical reaction started, liquid in glass was turning brown/ black. Next morning I have notice that all rection stop, but liquid in glass was dark green, I have mixt some bicarb soda with distilled water and slowly started pour it in acid solution to neutralize acid solution, than liquid turn dark blue, I put beacon with solution in hot water and add some urea and hope that access l liquid will evaporate a will be left with brown mud, but all what I have is beautiful blue mess. That all about it, obviously I am not very happy.


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 23, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Aqua regia is abbreviated as AR, not AG.
> 
> Dave


Sorry my typing mistake.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 23, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have started with 18k gold to refine it to 24k, I have used Nitric & Hydrochloric acid as described in Aqua regia process. After submerging gold pieces in solution, chemical reaction started, I have left it settle over night 12 hrs. In the morning I have notced that chemical reaction stopped , but gold pieces were there, covered in black. I went to see local jeweler and ask him for advice, He told me that local gold has about 15% of silver in it and that is preventing gold to dissolve, I have ask him how to correct it, he said I have to quatre gold with silver or copper 50 :50 portions , that iI did, new gold pieces I have covered with nitric acid and distilled water for about4 hrs. and than added hydrochloric acid 4:1 ratio. Chemical reaction started, liquid in glass was turning brown/ black. Next morning I have notice that all rection stop, but liquid in glass was dark green, I have mixt some bicarb soda with distilled water and slowly started pour it in acid solution to neutralize acid solution, than liquid turn dark blue, I put beacon with solution in hot water and add some urea and hope that access l liquid will evaporate a will be left with brown mud, but all what I have is beautiful blue mess. That all about it, obviously I am not very happy.


This just the same you had.
Muddy at best.
1 tried to dissolve Gold but got black crust.
2 Jewller said much silver in the Gold
3 and so on.



In order to dissolve the Gold by quartering one add enough Silver so the Gold is one quarter (6k) of the whole.
Then we part it with Nitric diluted with distilled water and heat it to almost boiling until no more dissolves.
Then we wash it thoroughly and collects the washing.
The residue is almost pure gold and can be melted or refined.


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 23, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> This just the same you had.
> Muddy at best.
> 1 tried to dissolve Gold but got black crust.
> 2 Jewller said much silver in the Gold
> ...


Thank for your input, make sense, but now for recovery. I have saved all liquid and mud. Dave suggested I test first my waste for traces of gold with stannous chloride before proceed with recovery. I will have to make my own as there is no chance to buy it in Madagascar and you cannot import it by airfreight.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 23, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> Thank for your input, make sense, but now for recovery. I have saved all liquid and mud. Dave suggested I test first my waste for traces of gold with stannous chloride before proceed with recovery. I will have to make my own as there is no chance to buy it in Madagascar and you cannot import it by airfreight.


I have no way to assess where you are in your process since I don't fully understand what you have done.
So as per that, can not give further advice. 
Stannous are the easy part


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 24, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Have you tested your solution with stannous chloride to see if there is still gold in solution?
> 
> There are several things in your procedure that I would not agree with, like adding copper to inquart, and adding sodium bicarbonate and urea. But we can come back to that. Let's first determine if you have any gold in solution.
> 
> Dave


I am sorry I did not reply yet, I am traveling country, will contact you as soon as I am back home and done test on solution.


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 28, 2022)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Have you tested your solution with stannous chloride to see if there is still gold in solution?
> 
> There are several things in your procedure that I would not agree with, like adding copper to inquart, and adding sodium bicarbonate and urea. But we can come back to that. Let's first determine if you have any gold in solution.
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave , I have made test with stannous chloride and when I dip test stick in solution it turn blue as my "waste" is blue, than I add few drops of Stannous chloride, cotton on test stick, turn white for a moment, than started changing color, finally color turn blue/ red , more like blue/brown. That is what I have now. Karel


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 28, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> Hi Dave , I have made test with stannous chloride and when I dip test stick in solution it turn blue as my "waste" is blue, than I add few drops of Stannous chloride, cotton on test stick, turn white for a moment, than started changing color, finally color turn blue/ red , more like blue/brown. That is what I have now. Karel


Here is a picture of how stannous tests look like.
A member posted this a few years ago and is a nice guide.


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 28, 2022)

My test cotton color is close to AV on picture, but that white part is light blue as my original solution is blue. Today I have evaporate excess water and I have blue mud. Karel


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 28, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> My test cotton color is close to AV on picture, but that white part is light blue as my original solution is blue. Today I have evaporate excess water and I have blue mud. Karel


Well it is Au and that means you have Gold in solution.
The blue mud is probably from Copper Nitrate.

I asked you a question in the past October 21, that was not replied to properly.
Which means, I at least, have no clear picture of what you have done.
As a result I can't actually give you any advice at the time being.

If you tell us what you did step by step, we might help you.


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 28, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Well it is Au and that means you have Gold in solution.
> The blue mud is probably from Copper Nitrate.
> 
> I asked you a question in the past October 21, that was not replied to properly.
> ...


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 28, 2022)

I have tried to refine 18k gold to 24 k, I used Aqua Regia solution, left the solution work over night, in morning gold pieces were covered in black, but did not dissolved. I spoke to local jeweler and he told me that local gold has more than 15% of silver in it and has to be quatered before refining with silver or copper, I have ask him if he can sale me silver to do so, but he did not have any at that moment and suggested that I use copper, so I did. Pieces which I quatered I submerged in solution of nitric acid/ distilled water 50:50 left it work for about 6 hrs. than I have added hydrochloric acid in ratio 4:1 to nitric acid and left it work again over night. In morning solution turn green and after few hrs. turn brown black and al gold/coper pieces were dissolved. I waited few hrs till all chemical reaction stop and add bicarb soda to cleared the solution and added some urea, solution did not cleared but turn dark blue, I added more bicarb soda and urea and heated solution in boiling water until all chemical reactions have stopped. Yesterday I have drain excess white liquid and partly dehydrated solution, now I am left with blue mud.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 29, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have tried to refine 18k gold to 24 k, I used Aqua Regia solution, left the solution work over night, in morning gold pieces were covered in black, but did not dissolved. I spoke to local jeweler and he told me that local gold has more than 15% of silver in it and has to be quatered before refining with silver or copper, I have ask him if he can sale me silver to do so, but he did not have any at that moment and suggested that I use copper, so I did. Pieces which I quatered I submerged in solution of nitric acid/ distilled water 50:50 left it work for about 6 hrs. than I have added hydrochloric acid in ratio 4:1 to nitric acid and left it work again over night. In morning solution turn green and after few hrs. turn brown black and al gold/coper pieces were dissolved. I waited few hrs till all chemical reaction stop and add bicarb soda to cleared the solution and added some urea, solution did not cleared but turn dark blue, I added more bicarb soda and urea and heated solution in boiling water until all chemical reactions have stopped. Yesterday I have drain excess white liquid and partly dehydrated solution, now I am left with blue mud.


This is the same story again, almost unreadable.
So I have taken your text and broken down with line shifts to make it readable.


> I have tried to refine 18k gold to 24 k, I used Aqua Regia solution,
> left the solution work over night, in morning gold pieces were covered in black, but did not dissolved.
> 
> I spoke to local jeweler and he told me that local gold has more than 15% of silver in it
> ...


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 29, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have tried to refine 18k gold to 24 k, I used Aqua Regia solution,
> left the solution work over night, in morning gold pieces were covered in black, but did not dissolved. *
> That is what happens when the Silver content in the Gold is too high*
> 
> ...





I will comment in the quote in bold text.
Anyway you need to study more and at least read C.M. Hokes book.


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 29, 2022)

Why my message is unreadable, explain please, it is in plain english.


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 29, 2022)

I am busy reading C.M.Hokes book at present


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 29, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> Why my message is unreadable, explain please, it is in plain english.


There is no line breaks so it is basically just a bunch of words, so it is hard to read.
Can you see the difference between the one you posted and the one I adjusted?

Have you read C.M. Hokes book yet?

Edit to add:
Sorry, I did not see your reply on reading Hoke , it was on the next page.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 29, 2022)

There is 2 things of concern here.
You did obviously not dissolve all the copper from solution, which in turn will mean you did not dissolve all the silver either?
Or did you leave the dissolved Copper and Silver in the solution and just added the HCl when you transitioned to AR?

This will result in a mix of Copper Nitrate and Silver Chloride, which in turn will be a Blueish black mud after some time.
But the Silver Chloride will form immediately upon adding the HCl.

Or if you accidentally used Bronze in the in-quartering, you may have formed metastannic acid which is a very hard to filter mud from the Nitric-Tin reaction.

How did you melt and quarter the Gold?
Did you cornflake it after?


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 29, 2022)

I have left dissolved Copper and Silver in solution and just added HCI.
For quartering I have used pure copper not Bronze.
Before smelting and quartering I have added pieces of gold and copper in crucible and smelted, during smelting I have been mixing it with stainless steel rod.
Than I pour it in container with cold water and get some flakes and small pieces of gold/copper.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 30, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have left dissolved Copper and Silver in solution and just added HCI.
> For quartering I have used pure copper not Bronze.
> Before smelting and quartering I have added pieces of gold and copper in crucible and smelted, during smelting I have been mixing it with stainless steel rod.
> Than I pour it in container with cold water and get some flakes and small pieces of gold/copper.


Well then we can guess what the blue mud is. Its a mix of Silver Chloride and Copper Hydroxide along with other Hydroxides.
Filter off the clear liquid into a new container. Test it with stannous (acidify first) and if negative, set aside for a future stock pot and waste treatment.
To the filtrate cover with HCl and dissolve what can be dissolved, then wash throughly through a filter in dilute HCl until all is properly clean.
The solid should be clean (ish) Silver Chloride.
The new solution should contain your gold, but might contain Nitrates from the Nitric. So evaporate it down to get the solution more concentrated. Then heat it to around 80 Centigrade in a container no more than 1/3 full and add hot Sulfamic acid la little at the time, stir well and wait some time. When it no longer foams the Nitric is destroyed.
Now you can drop the Gold with your preferred method. 
It needs another round of refining and you will want to make Silver of your Silver Chloride after.

As you have noticed we don’t like using Urea, it is not very effective and we have the risk of creating a somewhat explosive compound.

What lead you to think adding carbonate/bicarbonate was a good idea? Youtube?


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 30, 2022)

Yes I get most info about acid refining on internet and it suggest to use urea and bicarb soda, I have used far to much of it.
Now I am left about 200grams of dry mud as I have sun dried my original solution, where gold input was 55g and 55g copper.
Do I have to wash dry mud with water again to get rid of access bicarb soda and urea and than to evaporate solution down to more concentrated.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 30, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> Yes I get most info about acid refining on internet and it suggest to use urea and bicarb soda, I have used far to much of it.
> Now I am left about 200grams of dry mud as I have sun dried my original solution, where gold input was 55g and 55g copper.
> Do I have to wash dry mud with water again to get rid of access bicarb soda and urea and than to evaporate solution down to more concentrated.


The first major error was not pouring off the liquid from the first Nitric parting.


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 31, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> The first major error was not pouring off the liquid from the first Nitric parting.


I have washed solution with water about 6 times, I mix it well, than I let it settle rinse of top liquid which is clearer, but blue color is still there.
On the bottom of glass container is thick liquid blue/light grey, I have tested solution for acid, it look there is no acid present. I am trying to get sulfamic acid, so far no luck, that is Madagascar. 
I have before used REFINET Fumeless and I only needed nitric acid, that was simple


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 31, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have washed solution with water about 6 times, I mix it well, than I let it settle rinse of top liquid which is clearer, but blue color is still there.
> On the bottom of glass container is thick liquid blue/light grey, I have tested solution for acid, it look there is no acid present. I am trying to get sulfamic acid, so far no luck, that is Madagascar.
> I have before used REFINET Fumeless and I only needed nitric acid, that was simple


Do you have a picture of the beaker?

Well if you have no access of Sulfamic acid we have two options.
Number one, do not add mire Nitric than needed (first option always)
Let the Nitric be used up by adding sacrificial material, Gold or Copper is ok.
Try to wash with HCl and see if you can clean it more like that.

Your mud should be SilverChloride, a white powder that turns grey with time/light.

But as always, acidify the liquid and test with stannous.

PS!
Sulfamic acid is used to clean grout for tiles. So a tile shop may have it.


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 31, 2022)

I have tested liquid which I syphoned out this morning after numerous washing, test for gold was negative, dip cot ton in solution and add two drops of stannous chloride, it foam little but did not change color, white.
Than I did same with solution in beacon after adding stannous chloride it foam bit and after about 2 minutes turn black, you my be able to see on enclose photo of beacon with solution. 
During washing this morning I stirred and shake solution well, all lumps were dissolved, this afternoon it form lumps of mud again.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 31, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have tested liquid which I syphoned out this morning after numerous washing, test for gold was negative, dip cot ton in solution and add two drops of stannous chloride, it foam little but did not change color, white.
> Than I did same with solution in beacon after adding stannous chloride it foam bit and after about 2 minutes turn black, you my be able to see on enclose photo of beacon with solution.
> During washing this morning I stirred and shake solution well, all lumps were dissolved, this afternoon it form lumps of mud again.


What is the pH of the solution you tested?


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## KAREL Charvat (Oct 31, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> What is the pH of the solution you tested?


No idea, but I have decanted liquid from glass container and on bottom I found perfectly round about 1cm diameter solid chunks of mud, I tested one of them with stannous chloride and it turn white for a moment and then grey/black.
Liquid and mud on test show presence of gold.


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## Yggdrasil (Oct 31, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> No idea, but I have decanted liquid from glass container and on bottom I found perfectly round about 1cm diameter solid chunks of mud, I tested one of them with stannous chloride and it turn white for a moment and then grey/black.
> Liquid and mud on test show presence of gold.


You can not test solids with stannous. 
When you are perfectly sure there are no more salts that dissolve in water, 
you will have to switch to HCl and see what is left after thorough washing with HCl.
When all this is done, you should be left with white greyish Silver Chloride.
Set this aside but keep it wet.
Your Gold should now be in the liquid fraction.
Make sure it is acidic and not too dilute, you may need to evaporate off a bit of the solution.
Then you have two options, precipitate or cement it out on solid Copper.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 1, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> You can not test solids with stannous.
> When you are perfectly sure there are no more salts that dissolve in water,
> you will have to switch to HCl and see what is left after thorough washing with HCl.
> When all this is done, you should be left with white greyish Silver Chloride.
> ...


I have removed all white/grey deposits to different glass container and test for gold, none appeared to be there, than I teste my blue mud and show traces of gold.
I have also added some copper to blue solution for about 6 hrs. it did not show any reaction to solution, so I presume there is no nitric or HCI present.
I am left with 300ml of thick lumpy liquid. What is next move.
Yesterday I received on my mail discussion about refining of gold and surprisingly people were advocating using urea in process, very confusing.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 1, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have removed all white/grey deposits to different glass container and test for gold, none appeared to be there, than I teste my blue mud and show traces of gold.
> I have also added some copper to blue solution for about 6 hrs. it did not show any reaction to solution, so I presume there is no nitric or HCI present.
> I am left with 300ml of thick lumpy liquid. What is next move.
> Yesterday I received on my mail discussion about refining of gold and surprisingly people were advocating using urea in process, very confusing.


Did you acidify your solution before testing and cementing?


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 1, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Did you acidify your solution before testing and cementing?


I did not touch it, I have just wash it and separate it, add no other chemicals.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 1, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I did not touch it, I have just wash it and separate it, add no other chemicals.


Please understand that I am not chemist, I am technical man, all this is new for me and I am now learning thru this forum and studying CM Hokes book.
What I learn from internet led to disaster and I do not want to repeated it , that is why I my be asking lot of stupid question.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 1, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I did not touch it, I have just wash it and separate it, add no other chemicals.


The stannous test and all other procedures work best if the solution is acidic.
How did you clean your Silver Chloride? Water only?


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 1, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> Please understand that I am not chemist, I am technical man, all this is new for me and I am now learning thru this forum and studying CM Hokes book.
> What I learn from internet led to disaster and I do not want to repeated it , that is why I my be asking lot of stupid question.


You need to wash it in HCl, to dissolve copper salts and other salts.
So you have clean Silver Chloride and ensure all the Gold salts are dissolved again.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 1, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> You need to wash it in HCl, to dissolve copper salts and other salts.
> So you have clean Silver Chloride and ensure all the Gold salts are dissolved again.


I have washed solution with water only, than white/grey sediments separated by syphoning it out of solution. How much of HCI I have to use and for how long to leave solution to work.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 1, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have washed solution with water only, than white/grey sediments separated by syphoning it out of solution. How much of HCI I have to use and for how long to leave solution to work.


As much as needed and as long as needed, it will be good to do hot washes.
When the washes have no color it is done.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 1, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> As much as needed and as long as needed, it will be good to do hot washes.
> When the washes have no color it is done.


Will do let you know result tomorrow.


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## Martijn (Nov 1, 2022)

How long to wash? 
Test a little bit of the wash water after rinsing, with a solution of lye or soda ash. Resp. pH 14 or 11. 
This will push out any salts as hydroxydes. Copper will be blue-ish. 
Rinse test & repeat until clear upon addition of pH+.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 1, 2022)

Martijn said:


> How long to wash?
> Test a little bit of the wash water after rinsing, with a solution of lye or soda ash. Resp. pH 14 or 11.
> This will push out any salts as hydroxydes. Copper will be blue-ish.
> Rinse test & repeat until clear upon addition of pH+.


He want to get his "lost" Gold, the focus is not on Silver or waste just yet.
He messed up in the beginning and are get things sorted out.

He inquarted with Copper and just poured HCl into the parting acid without pouring it off, 
then he more or less bombed it with Sodium Bicarbonate and Urea.

Now we are working to reach a platform for a new start.
So far has has washed with water only.
There will be a need of some evaporation after the washes are done.
Then he can cement out the values after proper acidification of the liquor.

After that, waste treatment


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## huggybear (Nov 1, 2022)

I planned to use sulfamic acid as an alternative to the boiling down method to deNox.

Turns out when using sulfamic acid you still need to heat the solution to 90℃.

Because I am dealing with large volumes, and heating isn't possible, I'm wondering.. is sulfamic acid is effective at all at ambient temperatures?


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 2, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> He want to get his "lost" Gold, the focus is not on Silver or waste just yet.
> He messed up in the beginning and are get things sorted out.
> 
> He inquarted with Copper and just poured HCl into the parting acid without pouring it off,
> ...


Last night I have added 300ml of HCI to my 300ml of solution, this morning I checked solution and it turn from blue to green color and on bottom of glass container is about 10mm of light brown substance.
Than I heated the lot for about 1hr in hot water to about 80-90'C just below boiling point, but nothing has changed as yet.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 2, 2022)

I have decanted green liquid from glass container and I am left with thick brown mud. Do I still have to wash the green liquid with HCI ?


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 2, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have decanted green liquid from glass container and I am left with thick brown mud. Do I still have to wash the green liquid with HCI ?


Washing is only for the mud, 300 ml was a bit much maybe. How does the stannous test for the liquid look?
Wash the mud until the wash liquid has no more color.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 2, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Washing is only for the mud, 300 ml was a bit much maybe. How does the stannous test for the liquid look?
> Wash the mud until the wash liquid has no more color.


Do I have to wash mud with HCI ? I have tested green liquid with stannous and cotton turn grey, but I think it is affected by green color of the liquid.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 2, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> Do I have to wash mud with HCI ? I have tested green liquid with stannous and cotton turn grey, but I think it is affected by green color of the liquid.


What have you washed? The liquids need no washing only the solids like the mud, pieces and grains.
You need to get out all salts to be sure all your Gold salts are in your liquid.
What you are supposed to be left with is a white greyish mud, as Silver Chloride.
After the color of wash water is colorless you can wash the mud with a small amount of dilute AR.
Around 20ml HCL and 1-2ml Nitric.
The plan is to get out all that can be dissolved and then be left with clean Silver Chloride.
Then you add all the washings together and hang a piece of solid Copper in it and stir or bubble air through it.
Test with stannous for each step.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 2, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> What have you washed? The liquids need no washing only the solids like the mud, pieces and grains.
> You need to get out all salts to be sure all your Gold salts are in your liquid.
> What you are supposed to be left with is a white greyish mud, as Silver Chloride.
> After the color of wash water is colorless you can wash the mud with a small amount of dilute AR.
> ...


I have washed all mud and added little AR, color of liquid is white/clearer, on bottom light grey mud, on test cotton turn dark grey.
I have put copper in green liquid and it turn black, testing is not very conclusive as liquid is black and turn cotton grey. How long do I have to keep copper plate in solution.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 3, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have washed all mud and added little AR, color of liquid is white/clearer, on bottom light grey mud, on test cotton turn dark grey.
> I have put copper in green liquid and it turn black, testing is not very conclusive as liquid is black and turn cotton grey. How long do I have to keep copper plate in solution.


Keep it there until the solution tests negative for Gold.
The black mud will be your Gold. 
Du you have pictures of the mud?


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## BlackLabel (Nov 3, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have washed all mud and added little AR,


This is totally nonsense!
You're trying to clean the (possibly holding gold) mud by washing with HCl and in the next step your're destroying everything by adding AR.
If someone is leading you step by step, don't add any "improvements" by yourself.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 3, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> This is totally nonsense!
> You're trying to clean the (possibly holding gold) mud by washing with HCl and in the next step your're destroying everything by adding AR.
> If someone is leading you step by step, don't add any "improvements" by yourself.


I told him to do that. 
Sometimes Silver Chloride can trap gold particles, so I told him to wash with dilute AR to see if it cleaned it.
He have a mess, I can't wrap my head around properly, so now we just try to get as much values into the liquid as possible.
Next step is to adress the "mud"


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## BlackLabel (Nov 3, 2022)

Ok, I overread your advice about the AR.
Sorry.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 3, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I told him to do that.
> Sometimes Silver Chloride can trap gold particles, so I told him to wash with dilute AR to see if it cleaned it.
> He have a mess, I can't wrap my head around properly, so now we just try to get as much values into the liquid as possible.
> Next step is to adress the "mud"


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 3, 2022)

I have about 750ml of black liquid, in which I place about 250grams of copper ingot. I have pour it other glass container and on bottom I found small amount of black sand particles, solution appear negative for gold.
Other container hold silver chloride mud and I am continuing to wash it, still reacting positive for gold.
Do I need more copper?


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 3, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have about 750ml of black liquid, in which I place about 250grams of copper ingot. I have pour it other glass container and on bottom I found small amount of black sand particles, solution appear negative for gold.
> Other container hold silver chloride mud and I am continuing to wash it, still reacting positive for gold.
> Do I need more copper?


I think I told you to pour all the solutions together before cementing?
How do the mud/Silver Chloride look now?
Cementing can be done over days, no problem. So after the mud/Silver Chloride is clean (no more color and negative test with stannous) 
Have all the solutions in one container and put in the Copper bar. Stir it or bubble air through it during the whole time. Once a day test with Stannous. When negative stop it and take out the bar and gently clean it into the liquid so all particles are left int the container and let it settle for a day or 3 and then siphon/ pour the liquid to another container gently to not disturb the settled PMs.
Then transfer it to another beaker for refining at a later time.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 3, 2022)

I have about 50mg of Silver chloride, mud is white/yellow liquid transparent, gold test negative, but in separated container.
Rest of black liquid is in different container with copper bar, test for gold so far negative. Do I have to put silver chloride mud together with rest of black solution?


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 3, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have about 50mg of Silver chloride, mud is white/yellow liquid transparent, gold test negative, but in separated container.
> Rest of black liquid is in different container with copper bar, test for gold so far negative. Do I have to put silver chloride mud together with rest of black solution?


No.
I am not sure how you did this.
Are the mud and Silver Chloride separate?
When did the solution turn black?
What is the pH of the different solutions?


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## BlackLabel (Nov 3, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have about 50mg of Silver chloride,


50mg - is this correct?
Given a current stock price of $0.63/g, your 50mg are about $0.03 worth.

Did you dry the silver chloride to weigh it?
Don't dry it, keep it wet for further processing.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 3, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> 50mg - is this correct?
> Given a current stock price of $0.63/g, your 50mg are about $0.03 worth.
> 
> Did you dry the silver chloride to weigh it?
> Don't dry it, keep it wet for further processing.


I do not care about silver, my problem is gold, local gold has about 20% silver and they call it green gold which is difficult to refine and to sell. I did not know and went wrong way to refine it from 18k to 24k.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 3, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> No.
> I am not sure how you did this.
> Are the mud and Silver Chloride separate?
> When did the solution turn black?
> What is the pH of the different solutions?


Yes, I have separated silver chloride when solution settle in white mud and white liquid and negative for gold, all green wash solution was positive. Than I put copper ingot in green solution an in about 20 minutes it turn black.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 3, 2022)

That is photo of copper ingot, I have noticed that this morning black liquid started settle and clearer liquid is on top of solution, gold test is negative.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 4, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> That is photo of copper ingot, I have noticed that this morning black liquid started settle and clearer liquid is on top of solution, gold test is negative.





Yggdrasil said:


> Keep it there until the solution tests negative for Gold.
> The black mud will be your Gold.
> Du you have pictures of the mud?


While I have taking picture of copper ingot I have decanted black liquid and on bottom of glass container I have found lot of particles similar to sand, but black. Same size as alluvial gold I started with. 
I am continuing with copper treatment.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 4, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> While I have taking picture of copper ingot I have decanted black liquid and on bottom of glass container I have found lot of particles similar to sand, but black. Same size as alluvial gold I started with.
> I am continuing with copper treatment.


I thought you were treating karat Gold, not ore?
This may change everything.
But anyway the black in the black solution should be your Gold. 
When most/all the liquid is decanted/siphoned off set it aside and collect it until this batch is finished.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 4, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I thought you were treating karat Gold, not ore?
> This may change everything.
> But anyway the black in the black solution should be your Gold.
> When most/all the liquid is decanted/siphoned off set it aside and collect it until this batch is finished.


I have started with alluvial gold, powder, I have smelt it, made ingot and hope that I get 18k gold, but I was wrong I only get 16k gold. Then I decided to refine it to 24k.
I smelt it again and made small pieces, cover it with AR and left it work over night , in the morning when I check it gold pieces were there covered with black film, than I spoke to local jeweler and he told me that local gold has 20% of silver and AG will not touch it. He recommended to quarter it with silver or copper.
I then found on internet some formula for quartering gold and use it, but with knowledge I have now, I think the formula was wrong, I quarter it only to about 9/10k. and that is were my problem started. As local jeweler had no stock of silver I used copper.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 4, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> I have started with alluvial gold, powder, I have smelt it, made ingot and hope that I get 18k gold, but I was wrong I only get 16k gold. Then I decided to refine it to 24k.
> I smelt it again and made small pieces, cover it with AR and left it work over night , in the morning when I check it gold pieces were there covered with black film, than I spoke to local jeweler and he told me that local gold has 20% of silver and AG will not touch it. He recommended to quarter it with silver or copper.
> I then found on internet some formula for quartering gold and use it, but with knowledge I have now, I think the formula was wrong, I quarter it only to about 9/10k. and that is were my problem started. As local jeweler had no stock of silver I used copper.


Well then you need to add more copper and re-smelt it with the mud and any solid pieces left.
You can melt it to an ingot and have the jeweler test it to get a preliminary karat and take it from there.
The black powder from the cementing should be relatively pure.
You can melt it to a button or re-refine from the powder.
How is the possibilities and prices for selling?
Price differences from 95 to 999 for instance.
It might be better to sell from 99-97 than refine to 999.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 4, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Well then you need to add more copper and re-smelt it with the mud and any solid pieces left.
> You can melt it to an ingot and have the jeweler test it to get a preliminary karat and take it from there.
> The black powder from the cementing should be relatively pure.
> You can melt it to a button or re-refine from the powder.
> ...


If I test it and is 18k plus and most of silver is out you can get good price, if it is 18k and green that is difficult to sell as jewelers don like it. I will treat that black gold for next few days and see how much I can get out of it.
Then I will test it and decide, I do not want to spend too much time on it.
I would like to try to recover some of the silver, just for experience.


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## Yggdrasil (Nov 4, 2022)

KAREL Charvat said:


> If I test it and is 18k plus and most of silver is out you can get good price, if it is 18k and green that is difficult to sell as jewelers don like it. I will treat that black gold for next few days and see how much I can get out of it.
> Then I will test it and decide, I do not want to spend too much time on it.
> I would like to try to recover some of the silver, just for experience.


It might still be high karat, because the way you did it, you might have gotten most of the copper out, but very little Silver.
Or maybe the Silver is in the mud as Chlorides.
Smelt it together all metallics and test it.


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## KAREL Charvat (Nov 6, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> It might still be high karat, because the way you did it, you might have gotten most of the copper out, but very little Silver.
> Or maybe the Silver is in the mud as Chlorides.
> Smelt it together all metallics and test it.


That is end of my experiment with recovering gold. For last 4 days I have been collecting sediments from my black liquid which include copper plate, I have collected and dried about 25grams, This morning I wanted to smelt it, but before that I want to make sure it is clean, I mixed nitric acid with distilled water and pour it over the residues, it started reacting and all copper was gone I was left with 13grams of gold, that is all.


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