# Aqua Regia and Pulverized Ceramic IC Chips



## Dzimmy89 (Sep 7, 2016)

Hello Everyone,

I have been reading Hokes book, and thought it may be easier to ask someone on the forum who has done something similar to what I am about to attempt. I have one kilo of IC chips and other various 4 sided and 2 sided chips. I was thinking of pulverizing them to powder, then exposing that powder to aqua regia and dissolving the precious metals as well as the rest of the metals that are in the solution. Then filtering the ceramic ashes, being left with the values in aqua regia solution. I can then use bismuth powder to precipitate the gold, and the perform another aqua regia bath to refine the gold once more. Do I have this completely wrong? Is there an easier way to go about this with IC and 4 sided chips? 

Thanks for the help everyone!


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## Dzimmy89 (Sep 7, 2016)

Just to clarify, my goal is to refine the chips down to remove all of the metals, including the base metals, from the pulverized ashes of the chips. From there I can use another chemical wash to remove the gold and then purify it. This sounds reasonably, right? If not please let me know. 

Thanks again.


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## kazamir (Sep 7, 2016)

Sounds like an interesting experiment.
Even so I believe there may be drawbacks to your attempt.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 7, 2016)

Dont pulverize them. Fine powders are difficult to leech without agitation for the fresh acid to reach the metals. You can do it, but it isn't suggested.. It's hard to dissolve everything that way.. Then its difficult to rinse all the PM bearing solution as well... 

It also is hard on your glassware. Ceramic processors are sharp, and have no troubles etching, scratching, marring, and scarring your beaker until it breaks. Also, hot metal powders sitting on the bottom of the vessel prevents even heat disbursement, so that too can cause a beaker break.

Why the choice for Bismuth? Copper is better... Its cheaper.. More readily available, and is generally the standard choice for PM cementation.

But, do indeed refine the powder a second time. Of course, after doing the proper wash procedure. You will be pleasantly surprised at the increase in purity/color if done correctly.

How will/would you precipitate the gold the second time though?

Have you downloaded Hoke's book (available free for download in the library and in member's signatures). Yes, it's old...but, the fundamental principles you will learn in her writing are still accepted practice to this day. I downloaded it, read it, then bought a copy for my library.. It's THAT good.


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 7, 2016)

You didn't mention what kind of ICs these are. Ceramics are handled differently that resin. It's generally a better practice to try to eliminate as much base metal as possible before dissolving your gold. Dissolving everything at once complicates things and can cause you to lose values. The term "ceramic ashes" doesn't makes sense to me. I'm not familiar with using bismuth powder to precipitate gold. If you want to cement gold from a dirty solution, copper is probably a better choice.

Keep reading the book and reading the forum. I recommend a lot more study before you start dissolving your values, or you may create a mess and lose the precious metals you're trying to recover.

Dave

Wow! Some of you guys are quick and posted while I was still typing! :lol:


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## Dzimmy89 (Sep 7, 2016)

Thanks everyone for the fast replies!

So I want to clarify for everyone what I have, and what Im trying to do. I have ceramic IC chips, both 2 and 4 sided chips, not the plastic polymer chips, but the older ceramic chips. I have a bunch of pyrex chemistry glassware and a hot plate magnetic stirrer so that I can put a watch glass on top of the pyrex once all of the chips have been pulverized and added to the pyrex, then I can add the aqua regia solution, and heat it gently while stirring. 
The goal here is to dissolve all the metals into solution, the use bismuth powder, although after reading the replies, possibly I should be using a different chemical to precipitate the gold from solution after filtering the solution through a glass funnel lined with cloth to filter out the ceramic while allowing the gold bearing solution to filter through. 
I plan to save the ceramic and do a second wash using aqua regia in order to retrieve the greatest amount of values from the pulverized chips. 

I noticed that one reply mentioned that It may be better to remove the base metals before exposing the pulverized chips to aqua regia, and I have seen that done before, I am just worried that I may lose some values in the process. 

Also, If I don't use bismuth powder to precipitate the gold from the solution, what do you recommend I use instead? 

Thanks everyone for your information and replies, It is truly appreciated!


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## patnor1011 (Sep 7, 2016)

Send a picture of material you want to process.


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 7, 2016)

Dzimmy89 said:


> Also, If I don't use bismuth powder to precipitate the gold from the solution, what do you recommend I use instead?


See the responses above from Topher and I.



Topher_osAUrus said:


> Why the choice for Bismuth? Copper is better... Its cheaper.. More readily available, and is generally the standard choice for PM cementation.





FugalRefiner said:


> I'm not familiar with using bismuth powder to precipitate gold. If you want to cement gold from a dirty solution, copper is probably a better choice.


Dave


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## Dzimmy89 (Sep 7, 2016)

Here is a good image of the chips for processing. This is only a portion of the chips. 
Here is the procedure I had in mind for the chips:
1.) Pulverize the chips into powder/very small pieces
2.) Add pulverized chips to 5000ml pyrex glass container on a hot plate with magnetic stirring mechanism
3.) slowly add aqua regia solution to the pyrex with the pulverized ceramic chips until the chips are covered in AR solution
4.) allow the solution to be heated and stirred for a period of no less than 24 hours
5.) Filter the solution through a glass funnel with cloth filter into another 5000ml pyrex beaker
6.) add either bismuth powder or another chemical like SMB or something else, as mentioned in previous posts, to the AR solution to precipitate the gold
7.) repeat the procedure once more with the pulverized ceramic chips to remove the greatest amount of values possible
8.) after the process is complete and I am left with the gold precipitate, I can use AR solution to refine it further then smelt it down to a button afterwards.

What does everyone think of the procedure? Should I replace the bismuth powder with something else to precipitate the gold from the AR solution? I saw in the previous post that Copper(II) Chloride solution is better to precipitate the gold from the solution. Or do you think there are any other changes that should be made? 

Thanks again all!


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## anachronism (Sep 7, 2016)

Dzimmy perosnally I would boil them all in HCl first until all the legs have disappeared.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 7, 2016)

For precipitating from dirty solutions, ferrous sulfate (copperas) is also a good option sometimes.. But, with those, go with copper. I say that, because you will most likely use too much nitric and that too, can cause precipitation problems (which cementing on copper kindof circumvents that problem..[kindof]**)

But, after seeing those chips you speak of.. I am inclined to think that Patnors thread is your best bet honestly...
Patnor's thread-
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=11827

This is another good thread by Tzoax where he goes and does a few different types as well, and how he did them.. Also has a couple other threads linked in that one (patnors being one of them)
Tzoax's thread-
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=20662

Hope this helps

Edit to add:
**- i say "kindof" because if you use a LOT more nitric than needed, you will consume a lot of copper in the cementing process.. So, its a pseudo problem I suppose.


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## Shark (Sep 7, 2016)

Are you real sure those are ceramics? They look like epoxy type to me.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Sep 7, 2016)

And it's not copper chloride that will precipitate the powder.

Its actual, copper, metal.

When gold dissolves into solution with baser metals present, if there is not enough oxidizer to finish dissolving all of the base metal AND the gold, the remaining base metals will actively reduce the gold chloride to elemental gold as they "swap" positions in solution.

Do please read those threads i linked, as well as Hokes book. You may have losses without more insight to the processes, as our answers only give you a small portion of whats required to successfully recover and refine your gold.

Knowledge is one of the refiners greatest tools.


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## goldenhaha (Sep 7, 2016)

You need to slow down and do some sorting of those chips. 

You have BGA chips in there that are suppose to yield higher than quad flat packs. BGA chips have little solder balls on them. People consider flat packs as having leads legs or pins on 4 sides.

Crushing those and going straight to AR is going to create a monster that you wish you hadn't created. 
Read Pats post about recovering gold from chips. Most BGA chips have copper base metal in them. Most chips have iron based leads. That is going to cause problems dissolving both in any acid at the same time not to mention the tin content.


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## Dzimmy89 (Sep 7, 2016)

Ok, 

After reading all of the posts, it seems that the most important thing for this extraction to be successful is to separate the chips according to what they are, and not process them all at once. Also, it seems that there may be some extra steps necessary to remove some base metals before crushing/pulverizing the chips. Using copper instead of any other chemical or compound to precipitate the gold in AR is no problem, I am going to sort through the chips and take photos of them once sorted. BTW, how to I identify if a chip is ceramic or if it is Polymer? That would be helpful. Also, should I be focused on a particular type of chip, since one poster mentioned that most BGAs contain only copper. I'm going after the gold here, so which chip should type should I focus on? 

Thanks Again All


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## kernels (Sep 7, 2016)

So, just stating the obvious here, but you've shown in that picture is not ceramic chips, I can't even see a single ceramic chip in that pic, they are just epoxy (plastic) chips. 

There are two good processes, one with incineration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXyvpICimmo

and one without: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgmBez-kE7g


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## Dzimmy89 (Sep 7, 2016)

Thanks for the info. Now something I obviously need to do before proceeding is sort the chips. How do I identify ceramic vs. Polymer. You were able to do it just by looking, so what should I be looking for to identify the chips? Thanks!


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## FrugalRefiner (Sep 7, 2016)

Dzimmy89 said:


> Ok,
> 
> After reading all of the posts, it seems that the most important thing for this extraction to be successful is to separate the chips according to what they are, and not process them all at once. Also, it seems that there may be some extra steps necessary to remove some base metals before crushing/pulverizing the chips. Using copper instead of any other chemical or compound to precipitate the gold in AR is no problem, I am going to sort through the chips and take photos of them once sorted. BTW, how to I identify if a chip is ceramic or if it is Polymer? That would be helpful. Also, should I be focused on a particular type of chip, since one poster mentioned that most BGAs contain only copper. I'm going after the gold here, so which chip should type should I focus on?
> 
> Thanks Again All


Dzimmy, you started this thread talking about pulverizing chips, dissolving everything, and precipitating the gold with bismuth powder. Some of our members have given you some good advice about problems in your process, but you don't seen to understand what they've said. When I asked whether your chips were ceramic or resin, you clarified that they "not the plastic polymer chips, but the older ceramic chips". Now you say "BTW, how to I identify if a chip is ceramic or if it is Polymer?"

You've only been here a few days, and it's easy to get overwhelmed with the information available here. There are many different processes for the many different types of eWaste material. 

Sorting your material is a good first step. While you're sorting, keep reading Hoke's book and the forum. You'll learn that cementing gold with a metal is a way of recovering from a mess. There are much better ways to precipitate gold from a much less dirty solution than what you're talking about creating. There are many threads about processing the different types of ICs. Take some time and read them while you're sorting. The longer you study, the more it starts to make sense.

Dave


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## kernels (Sep 7, 2016)

Dzimmy89 said:


> Thanks for the info. Now something I obviously need to do before proceeding is sort the chips. How do I identify ceramic vs. Polymer. You were able to do it just by looking, so what should I be looking for to identify the chips? Thanks!



99.9% of black chips on boards made since the 1980's are plastic, ceramic chips are usually dark grey or white in color and are heavier than their plastic counterparts. If you do a google image search for 'ceramic cpu', there are millions of pictures that show what ceramic chips look like. 

It is 100% possible to process all your chips together, but generally a good idea to split them up since the processing of BGA chips can be simplified a bit by getting rid of the Tin first, where chips with legs I usually get rid of the Tin later in the process. Different chips also have vastly different yields, so when you separate them out, it's much easier to know whether you are getting the gold you expect.

Really, you need to go and read quite a bit more and watch every youtube video you can find on the subject, that way you will begin to grasp the reasons why things are done in a very specific order.


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## Dzimmy89 (Sep 7, 2016)

Thanks so much! 
I will keep reading through the forums, and go from there. I have read so many different posts where people are asking for help after creating a mess, and my goal is to not only avoid creating a mess, but extract as many values as possible. So I will continue to read Hoke's book, and continue to read the forums. 

One last question though, how do I identify the difference between a polymer chip and a ceramic chip? I feel like it should be pretty self explanatory but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Thanks!


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## kernels (Sep 7, 2016)

As per my answer above, you identify ceramic chips visually and by weight. 

Similar to how you would identify a ceramic plant pot vs. a plastic one. 

But, ceramic chips are few and far between, you likely don't even have one in your stash.


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## Shark (Sep 7, 2016)

I think this is not needed if you have done some searching, but a very simple method is to heat one with a propane torch for just a few seconds. Ceramic won't smoke or burn (if clean). Epoxy chips will smoke and may even ignite in flame within a few seconds. Once you find one that is ceramic 99.9% of future ceramics will stand out pretty good for you by sight.

I hope you know not to do this inside as the smell is awful and lingers for some time. Not to mention how toxic it can be.


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## goldenhaha (Sep 8, 2016)

Dzimmy89 said:


> Ok,
> 
> After reading all of the posts, it seems that the most important thing for this extraction to be successful is to separate the chips according to what they are, and not process them all at once. Also, it seems that there may be some extra steps necessary to remove some base metals before crushing/pulverizing the chips. Using copper instead of any other chemical or compound to precipitate the gold in AR is no problem, I am going to sort through the chips and take photos of them once sorted. BTW, how to I identify if a chip is ceramic or if it is Polymer? That would be helpful. Also, should I be focused on a particular type of chip, since one poster mentioned that most BGAs contain only copper. I'm going after the gold here, so which chip should type should I focus on?
> 
> Thanks Again All



BGA chips have copper for the base metal and gold bonding wires. Sorry that I didn't make that clear changed it in the other post.


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## patnor1011 (Sep 8, 2016)

Read thread in my signature line. It is a long one but you will find everything you need to process what you have there on that picture. What you need is to reduce material to concentrate and process only that.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Sep 8, 2016)

The answers you are looking for will be answered in the threads that have been suggested for you to read. For the most part. Your best answers will come with experience in working and sorting the different chips and paying attention to the post's by well known members. This all comes with the amount of reading you do and the patience you have to slow down and absorb the information you read and then apply it to the material you have. There are some other good threads that you will find in your search as well that use other options. A lot is going to depend on what you have to work with in the way of equipment.

I know that is not going to make any sense right now. Buy there will come a time in the not too distant future that you will have an AH HA moment and it will hit you while you are either separating your material or during processing it.

Forget about the hot plate and stirrer, it is not going to help you much with this type of material.

Read and work on separating your material and testing as has been suggested. After a while you will be able to tell the difference in the different types when you pick them up because of their weight and feel.

This all come with experience and patience.


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## Dzimmy89 (Sep 10, 2016)

Here's a question for everyone:

After watching the youtube video that is posted in this thread without incineration, the kiwi in the video removes all of the metals using a magnetic device. 
Why remove all of the magnetic metals from the pulverized chips? Is it possible that some gold may be attached to the magnetic metals and that you could inadvertently be removing some gold in the process? Isn't it possible to keep all of the material and use the chemical process later on to dissolve and then precipitate the gold? Wouldn't your yield be higher this way? Or are there problems that I am missing here? 

Thanks all!


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## UncleBenBen (Sep 10, 2016)

It's not just possible but probable that a small amount of values will follow the ferrous and copper based pins from chips. The real question, is it worth it to try and recover those tiny bits of values as part of the process?

On the hobbyist level, I like the idea of concentrating the values over time as has been suggested here on the forum. That's by adding iron based pins to a bucket of salt water, and using copper based pins to cement the stock pot.


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## nickvc (Sep 11, 2016)

The truth is all chemical processing of PMs will result in some loses along the way the trick is to minimise those initial loses and recover what's lost later by careful harvesting of your various wastes all of which is covered extensively on the forum.
The smaller amount of values you process the larger percentage you will lose initially so learn the best processes and methods before starting to help minimise them.


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