# Recovering silver with AP solution



## neotrop (Dec 6, 2013)

Hi all
I am trying to recover silver from plated silverware using AP solution. My first try is on 5kg of various plated objects the most of them spoon and forks cut into small pieces. As AP solution I used 32% HCL 2:3 and 1:3 of 3% peroxide 10L in total. Before that I try 1 Kg of the same stuff in nitric acid and end up with a mess of various metals (Zn/Cu/Pb) with only 15% of pure silver. Encouraged to change the method by a info on one Belgium forum that the AP solution should work great. I am searching on the forum and I cannot find any information just some posts but nobody have confirmation on this method. Does someone has or have experience with that?


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## butcher (Dec 7, 2013)

You most likely will not find confirmation of the method on the forum, although it could be done.

The acid consumption would cost more than the silver chloride recovered, at least at the price I pay for acids.

There would be other problems involved, as you mention zinc in the mix will replace copper from the solution, and the hydrogen from the acid, basically making the leach less effective,taking away the main ingredients that make the leach work, so the leach would need refreshed often with a fresh batch of solution.

The metal is thick and contains a large volume of base metal compared to the tiny amount of silver plated onto the metal, the copper II chloride leach works best on thin copper, without base metals lower in the reactivity series that would replace copper from solution.

Silver forms an crust of chloride that can protect the metal below from the acid, this can be overcome in this instance, by cutting or scratching the thin plating, or with electrolysis.

Basically I feel it is a waste of time and acids.
just my opinion.


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## neotrop (Dec 7, 2013)

Thank you for your opinion Butcher. My acid at the local rate (HCL 32% + 3% peroxide) is 0.70 Euros per liter and if it's possible to recycle, it is only a matter of time. If you want and if you have time please take a look Butcher and tell me what do you think about this post http://poubelles.be/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9725


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## butcher (Dec 7, 2013)

I do not see any useful information on that web page, nothing that would inspire me to waste my time on the process.
I have seen very little information on the web that was not full of misinformation, I suspect this would be no different, you would not be able to regenerate this solution, once zinc, or base metals above copper has been added it is no longer a copper II chloride leach (which can be regenerated).

My opinion it is not worth it, don't like my opinion, try it for yourself and see if I am wrong.

I feel studying this forum will put more silver and gold in your pocket, than spending your time dumping acids on spoons following something you read about on the internet, and then creating a toxic soup you have no clue of what to do with. 

I just feel your time and acid would be better spent on a material that will cover the costs and is well worth the time involved.


Maybe it is because I am American, but the avatar you have of communism is bugging the heck out of me, it almost makes me not want to respond to your post. 

Can you tell me how you treat your acid waste solutions for disposal and how you dispose of this waste involved safely?


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## goldsilverpro (Dec 7, 2013)

What will you do with all that heavy metal acid waste? You will have a lot of it. You can't just dump it. You would have to treat it or have it hauled. Both are expensive.


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## neotrop (Dec 7, 2013)

I agree that there are other ways to use the acid and get more profit. Hoping to find a process to recycle the acid if no, bicarbonate should do the job. 
p.s.
I change my avatar to make it less communist


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## butcher (Dec 7, 2013)

Read the forum, in the safety section you can learn how to deal with the toxic waste solutions.

That Avatar does seem to be political to me, and of a political leader who murdered his own people that bothers me. What is the purpose of picking a picture like that to represent yourself on the gold forum?


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## modtheworld44 (Dec 7, 2013)

neotrop

If your not in the biggest hurry,here's a cheap way to remove silver plate.I made the series just follow the instructions.Here's the link to the play-list.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsgPe30V4DXAO322bTtukrA/videos?view=1

Hope this will help you,it can be scaled to any size you need.



modtheworld44


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## neotrop (Dec 7, 2013)

Thank you for helping me choose the right avatar, I honestly hope that my last update will be confirmed with yours political regards. The first one was only a nice avatar, no political means and no hidden ideas and the most of the tourists from U.S. in Moscow are spending hours to see the mausoleum with you know how in side. Please understand correctly that I didn't mean to affect someone's feeling about history with my avatar on the forum I just wanted to have one different from others, now my avatar is the same as the others on the forum  . This problem with my avatar has made me remember that when I was in school one day I have dyed my hair bright-green, because of that I was expelled from school. That was one of the reasons why I have migrated from Russia in the early 90'.


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## butcher (Dec 7, 2013)

Nice avatar it reflects more the interest here on the forum, and those are not of politics, but of precious metals.

Once my daughter colored her hair bright orange, I did not understand it and wondered why she would color her beautiful hair with chemicals to look like a clown, thank goodness the childhood phase did not last long, as her hair is beautiful. I would laugh every time I seen her, and ask her what happened to the red rubber nose, and big floppy shoes.


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## FrugalRefiner (Dec 7, 2013)

neotrop said:


> Thank you for helping me choose the right avatar, I honestly hope that my last update will be confirmed with yours political regards. The first one was only a nice avatar, no political means and no hidden ideas and the most of the tourists from U.S. in Moscow are spending hours to see the mausoleum with you know how in side. Please understand correctly that I didn't mean to affect someone's feeling about history with my avatar on the forum I just wanted to have one different from others, now my avatar is the same as the others on the forum  . This problem with my avatar has made me remember that when I was in school one day I have dyed my hair bright-green, because of that I was expelled from school. That was one of the reasons why I have migrated from Russia in the early 90'.


neotrop,

There are only a couple of subjects that aren't allowed on this forum. Politics and religion happen to be two of them because in both cases, many people have very strong feelings about them. The debates can become quite heated and can cause a divide between members of the forum, and that can affect the purpose of this forum, which is to discuss recovery and refining. butcher is just trying to help guide you away from a potential conflict here.

Your avatar doesn't have to look the same as others. Mine doesn't.

Schools here in the United States had similar rules when I went to school. You could be expelled for the way you dressed or wore your hair. They didn't make sense to me at the time, but I can understand that those things can create a distraction from their purpose, which is to teach. There aren't many rules here, but they are pretty strongly enforced.

Dave


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## neotrop (Dec 7, 2013)

It's been 3 day that I start my test, when I checked the bucket today the solution was greenish-dark close to black. I also add a few drops of tap water, no white cloud and I think around 30% of the base metal are dissolved. How to determine when my solution will be saturated?


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## butcher (Dec 7, 2013)

The dark brown solution sounds like the solution is saturated with base metals.
Any silver would be a white insoluble powder, or silver flakes coated with silver chloride crust.


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## neotrop (Dec 7, 2013)

No white insoluble powder, only silver flakes coated with silver chloride, tomorrow I will try to post some photos. If I understand correct when the solution will be saturated there will be also Cu powder at the bottom? That seems to me logic so far. Pleas correct me if I am wrong.
I made a mistake, in my first post I mentioned nickel but I do not have Ni in the solution only Zn Cu Pb and Ag, all in unknown percentage.


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## butcher (Dec 8, 2013)

Silver and lead form insoluble chlorides both white, lead chloride is only very slightly soluble in cold water, but becomes considerably more soluble in hot water, silver chloride is basically insoluble in cold or hot water, this gives us a way to separate these two white powders from each other.

Google the reactivity series of metals, and displacement reactions, after studying these you will have a better idea as to some of the chemical reactions of the metals, you will see where one metal will replace another metal from solution, How one elemental metal (solid zinc here) with all of the electrons in its atoms will freely give up electrons to the dissolved metal ions in solution (copper Cations in this case), and the metal ion in solution will now become an elemental metal powder (copper metal powder), and precipitate out of solution, (or plate back out of solution onto the other remaining metal lower in series), the metal higher in the reactivity series (zinc metal dissolves)become and ion a Cation in solution (missing atoms in its atomic structure), a formula for the reaction can look like this:
CuCl2 + Zn --> ZnCl2 + Cu
Zinc will displace copper from solution, so yes you may also see copper metal as powder, copper or even copper I chloride powders, if the solution gets saturated (it can also hold several metals in solution at once) you can be so saturated in solution with CuCl in the CuCl2 that the CuCl will also begin to precipitate out of solution as a white powder.

Usually when you have saturated brown solution of CuCl/CuCl2, adding water you will see the white cloud of CuCl form and precipitate to the bottom of the vessel as white powder, as the thick brown acidic salt solution is diluted.

HCl will put the copper I chloride (CuCl) back into solution as copper II chloride (CuCl2), this can also give you a way to separate lead and silver chlorides from the copper I chloride powders.

HCl alone will not dissolve copper metal this includes copper metal powders, for that we need an oxidizer like air, oxygen or 3% H2O2 (in the acidic conditions), to oxidize the copper metal to copper oxide, then HCl acid will dissolve the copper oxide, the copper oxide is oxidized by the HCl acid to copper cations, as the Hydrochloric acid is reduced to chloride anions, making a solution of, or dissolved salt of copper chloride in solution.

Keep studying and one day you can have an avatar of your own refined metals, those always make great avatars, and add a personal touch of achievement.

neotrop your willingness to cooperate in changing of your avatar and the manly way you did, gives me more respect for you as a member here, It also shows us your willingness to get along with others here on the forum, it may not have seemed like much to you, politics and political messages can cause problems, We are here to learn and help others learn about recovery and refining of precious metals, politics can mess up most anything in the world, politics and religion have been a major factor in war, we do not need it messing up this great forum, where we all strive to get along and help each other learn a science that can help man.

I still think you are wasting your time on this experiment, but if it helps you learn it is not a complete waste of time or trouble, when your finished with it, why don't you try another experiment, like deplating the silver in the concentrated H2SO4 cell (normally used to de-plate gold from base metals), or see if you can get more for it at the scrapyard as is, and find a material that will be easier to get more valuable metal from.


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