# Mount baker mining shaker table vs micron mill wave table



## Dwf (Mar 30, 2021)

Has anyone used both of these tables for recovering gold from ore?
I currently have the wave table, and I’m thinking about switching the the mbmm shaker table. As long as it has an acceptable level of loss, I think the shaker table would be better. Less labor involved in getting a smelt able product. 
But % of recovery is top priority. 
I read the post on the set up in Florida, and like the website videos show, the equipment looks very well built. 

Thanks for any feedback!


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## kurtak (Apr 1, 2021)

I don't know anything about the wave table (is that the table made by Action Mining ?)

And I don't know how well the shaker table works for crushed ore

However the Mount Baker shaker table works VERY well for the recovery of bonding wires from incinerated & milled IC chips

I believe the boys at Mount Baker would run a sample of your crushed ore on one of their tables - send you back the cons the midlings & tailings which you could then test/assay to see what percent gold is coming off the table in each of those recovered grades

I would call them & ask them about running a sample for you

Kurt


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## Dwf (Apr 5, 2021)

Thanks for the reply,
Yes, I have contacted them, and we’re working on setting up a time to come see the table in action. 
I was just curious if anyone had experience with both tables. 
The wave table is made by Action mining


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## kurtak (Apr 6, 2021)

Dwf said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> Yes, I have contacted them, and we’re working on setting up a time to come see the table in action.



Right on - hope that goes well for you - & please let us know how it goes 

For what it is worth - I have a friend that has been prospecting some hard rock deposits that are showing "good" test results & the last I talked to him (about a week ago) he is waiting on some equipment from Mount Baker in order to move forward with actual production

Kurt


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## PeterM (Feb 22, 2022)

Allow me to tell you. The wave table is not a finishing table, it is made for fine, fine gold that is virtually impossible to save in the pan. Even after you use it there is still a problem to separate that balance of the black sand from the fine gold. Meanwhile, the Wifley or Deister table(and I have owned all three of them) two are professional tables while the Wave table does work but is closer to a joke then a serious piece of equipment. In fifty years of mining gold, I have never see one person become successful by using a Wave Table. Meanwhile the Wifley and Deister design tables are superior. Both of them have been copied for the past 100 years because they could work well if set up properly. However, is you have lots of fine gold you should use Gemeni Table for a finisher. Nothing is better then a Gemeni for a finisher.


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## The Devils Dog (Feb 22, 2022)

PeterM said:


> Allow me to tell you. The wave table is not a finishing table, it is made for fine, fine gold that is virtually impossible to save in the pan. Even after you use it there is still a problem to separate that balance of the black sand from the fine gold. Meanwhile, the Wifley or Deister table(and I have owned all three of them) two are professional tables while the Wave table does work but is closer to a joke then a serious piece of equipment. In fifty years of mining gold, I have never see one person become successful by using a Wave Table. Meanwhile the Wifley and Deister design tables are superior. Both of them have been copied for the past 100 years because they could work well if set up properly. However, is you have lots of fine gold you should use Gemeni Table for a finisher. Nothing is better then a Gemeni for a finisher.


Thank you for your experience and description of the equipment by chance do you have any experience with a Burke Rocker table I am a first generation miner at 30 years old I’ve been working on a table project that someone has been generous enough to have handed to me, it’s running off of a W.W.Gibson mechanism that I have restored and I have been researching in my Taggart mineral dressing book, but it talks a lot about the Wifley and Denver tables not so much about the Burke design my plans are to take a Wifley top I’ve had made from high density plastic to restore the table any possible information on running speeds and gear ratios for the proper speed would be a great help thanks


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## PeterM (Feb 22, 2022)

The Devils Dog said:


> Thank you for your experience and description of the equipment by chance do you have any experience with a Burke Rocker table I am a first generation miner at 30 years old I’ve been working on a table project that someone has been generous enough to have handed to me, it’s running off of a W.W.Gibson mechanism that I have restored and I have been researching in my Taggart mineral dressing book, but it talks a lot about the Wifley and Denver tables not so much about the Burke design my plans are to take a Wifley top I’ve had made from high density plastic to restore the table any possible information on running speeds and gear ratios for the proper speed would be a great help thanks


Devil Dog, I know nothing about the Burke design. My experience is having a Wifley, Diester and a action Mining Wave table( actually action mining did not invent the wave table someone else did and I think he got robbed of his idea). I know of the Taggart book but haven't seen on in 40 years or more. However the Table that Mount Baker Mining makes appears to sound as all their equipment does. I know the head where the bumping action comes from is important. I wish you luck sir.


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## SamW (Apr 1, 2022)

PeterM said:


> Allow me to tell you. The wave table is not a finishing table, it is made for fine, fine gold that is virtually impossible to save in the pan. Even after you use it there is still a problem to separate that balance of the black sand from the fine gold. Meanwhile, the Wifley or Deister table(and I have owned all three of them) two are professional tables while the Wave table does work but is closer to a joke then a serious piece of equipment. In fifty years of mining gold, I have never see one person become successful by using a Wave Table. Meanwhile the Wifley and Deister design tables are superior. Both of them have been copied for the past 100 years because they could work well if set up properly. However, is you have lots of fine gold you should use Gemeni Table for a finisher. Nothing is better then a Gemeni for a finisher.



Hi Peter,

Would you be able to elaborate more on your experience with the wave table?

I am currently trialing one as a production table but very quickly starting to doubt it will live up to its claimed capacity or recovery rate. The build quality is also very far from industrial standard. From your comments it sounds like I might be wasting my time!

I am crushing quartz ore and majority of the gold is extremely fine (flour) with some course fractions up to 0.6mm. It also contains a high percentage of sulphides which I currently roast and run back over the table. 

I also have a full size Wilfley table.

At this stage I am leaning on going back to using the Wilfley for first cut concentrate and using the wavetable for concentrate cleanup only. I was mainly worried about losing fine gold on the Wilfley but it appears the wave table is not much better!

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.


Thanks
Sam


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## PeterM (Apr 1, 2022)

SamW said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> Would you be able to elaborate more on your experience with the wave table?
> 
> ...


Sam, in my experience, not one customer to date who purchased a Wave Table is using it today in production. Yes, it get ultra fine gold, it is slow, yes guaranteed. The last one I had, I left it in Guyana, South America where it was laughed at by the locals because their gold was large and that kind of table wasn't needed. It's a great lab toy, but that's about it. It's time verses money, everybody's situation is different.


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## PeterM (Apr 3, 2022)

By admission, the Mt Baker group make good equipment with an heavy duty industrial use. This is something we don't see much anymore.


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## Alondro (Apr 3, 2022)

I need to buy one of their iron pyramid molds. Those would be great for my copper smelting and bronze melting. Got a lot of material from an old wooden boat that was literally falling to pieces. Several thousand bronze screws, about 40 lbs total of just screws, plus all the other parts. Some are good enough to clean up and sell, but many are too damaged and corroded for anything but re-melting with borax and silica sand to glassify the oxides and other salts, leaving nice clean metal in a cone.

It also had a solid lead keel... which we sold some years ago... and now I'm kicking myself as I realize that boat was from the early 1900's and that lead could have had a major amount of silver in it! GAHHHH!!


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## PeterM (Apr 5, 2022)

Alondro said:


> I need to buy one of their iron pyramid molds. Those would be great for my copper smelting and bronze melting. Got a lot of material from an old wooden boat that was literally falling to pieces. Several thousand bronze screws, about 40 lbs total of just screws, plus all the other parts. Some are good enough to clean up and sell, but many are too damaged and corroded for anything but re-melting with borax and silica sand to glassify the oxides and other salts, leaving nice clean metal in a cone.
> 
> It also had a solid lead keel... which we sold some years ago... and now I'm kicking myself as I realize that boat was from the early 1900's and that lead could have had a major amount of silver in it! GAHHHH!!


Alondro, back in the 70's in Las Vegas I started a foundry casting parts, belt buckles slot machine parts, cemetery plaques, virtually anything, back then I added a thing called Phos-copper, I got it at another foundry in L.A. to de-gass the bronze before pouring to eliminate porosity. 
Good Luck


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## kurtak (Apr 6, 2022)

Alondro said:


> I need to buy one of their iron pyramid molds. Those would be great for my copper smelting and bronze melting.


Alondro - what kind furnace do you have - electric or gas/propane

I ask because you said



Alondro said:


> re-melting with borax and silica sand to glassify the oxides and other salts



if you are using an electric furnace - especially like one of these









VEVOR Electric Melting Furnace, 3KG Digital Electric Melting Furnace, 1750W 1150℃/2102 ℉ Gold Smelter Furnace W/ 1KG&3KG Graphite Crucible & Ingot Die for Processing of Melting Gold, Silver, Copper | VEVOR US


Discover VEVOR Electric Melting Furnace, 3KG Digital Electric Melting Furnace, 1750W 1150℃/2102 ℉ Gold Smelter Furnace W/ 1KG&3KG Graphite Crucible & Ingot Die for Processing of Melting Gold, Silver, Copper, Professional Melting Furnace and High-Purity Graphite Crucible at lowest price, 2days...




www.vevor.com





They will not hold up to smelting with flux - the flux will destroy the graphite crucible in VERY short order (1 - 2 or at best 3 smelts) which will cause the crucible to fail

When the crucible fails the flux will bleed through the crucible & get on the elements & destroy them - or if boil over of the flux it will get on the elements & destroy the furnace

These type furnaces are made for melting pure metals with NO flux & even then IMO they are a bad investment - the graphite crucibles just don't hold up well - especially if melting silver

For smelting (using flux) you really want/need a propane (gas) fired furnace with (good quality) silicon/carbide crucibles

Also - if you intend to do any real amount of smelting you may want to invest in one of these cone molds






Conical Slag Mold-8 [18390-HR] - $174.00 : Legend Inc. Sparks, Nevada USA


Legend Inc. Sparks, Nevada USA Conical Slag Mold-8 [18390-HR] - The Heat Resistant (HR) molds are made of a cast iron alloy with Copper (Cu), Manganese (Mn), Chromium (Cr), and Nickel (Ni) for increased heat resistance. HR molds are designed to provide higher durability, while remaining cost...



www.lmine.com





IMO they are well worth the investment

Legend also has a good selection of smaller (as well as larger) cone molds

For what its worth

Kurt


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## cosmetal (Apr 6, 2022)

If you have the $$$ to spare and want a crucible that appears to be able to withstand the corrosive nature of heated fluxes, why not try pyrolytic graphite crucibles?

Pyrolytic Graphite Crucibles

More information on pyrolytic graphite:

Pyrolytic Graphite

The company in the last link says they have CNC and laser machining capabilities.

James


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## Alondro (Apr 6, 2022)

kurtak said:


> Alondro - what kind furnace do you have - electric or gas/propane
> 
> I ask because you said
> 
> ...


It's a gas one, made from Kaowool and firebrick.

I'll only get an electric one if I decide to try cupelling with bismuth. 

I have some very old lead from a wooden boat keel to test for silver, but for that I'll just use the quick and dirty Portland cement cupel method. All I'm doing with the test is seeing if the old lead has a decent amount of silver in it. If not, the lead will just get melted into fishing weights (I have molds for making 6-12oz ocean fishing weights, and they sell for much more than the lead scrap)

I also have a simple chimney-type wood kiln for melting low-temp base metals in a cast iron pipe that sits in the center. It reaches just above copper's melting point, but is too tough to maintain at that temp long enough to melt anything but tiny amounts of copper. I am going to switch it to coal and see how that works (also because I'm going to be playing with making wrought iron items with Pine Barrens bog iron pieces I've collected over the years. It has a high silica content which makes it rust very slowly, and develop an appealing earth-brown patina for decorative works). I have a source of free old anthracite coal from a long-abandoned rail-road bed just behind my development (I also got much of the old iron there too). I've already collected about 500 pounds of it from walnut-size to softball-sized lumps, it's been washed in the rain for nearly 100 years and burns with a clean, smokeless blue flame! I could potentially gather a couple tons of it. I hike back there a lot, and carrying 40 pounds at a time in an old backpack is great exercise! (got my legs strengthened to the point where last month I hiked 20 miles in about 5 hours)

I do indeed plan to grab a cone mold when my setup is complete, as I'll be melting 5 to 10 pounds of copper at a time. Right now I have fused silica crucibles, and I know a couple places here in Jersey where I can get other materials. There's a place specializing in kilns and furnaces in Swedesboro, an hour from me.

Had a delay in doing much beyond small chemical tests I could put together and then let sit lately, was working on selling a house with my father (looks like it's going to sell for... an absurd amount... o______O Thank god I don't need to buy a house these days!). That appears about done, so now back to making my little smelting area.


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## Alondro (Apr 6, 2022)

cosmetal said:


> If you have the $$$ to spare and want a crucible that appears to be able to withstand the corrosive nature of heated fluxes, why not try pyrolytic graphite crucibles?
> 
> Pyrolytic Graphite Crucibles
> 
> ...


I have a little one of those. They are pretty pricey. I only got this small one for melting purified Pt-group metals and for testing mystery minerals in small quantities (such as the black sands concentrated in outflow channels of some NJ Pine sandpits from decades of erosion). Not sure I'll need a large one, unless I miraculously find a super-rich sulfide vein in the jumbled ancient jigsaw puzzle that is northern NJ geology and figure out if I can stake a claim... the law for which in NJ is very convoluted and confusing. I'm sticking with panning for now when the weather's nice, since it's the simplest thing to get permission for. So for the time being, the basic types of crucibles are all I need.


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## SamW (Apr 8, 2022)

PeterM said:


> Sam, in my experience, not one customer to date who purchased a Wave Table is using it today in production. Yes, it get ultra fine gold, it is slow, yes guaranteed. The last one I had, I left it in Guyana, South America where it was laughed at by the locals because their gold was large and that kind of table wasn't needed. It's a great lab toy, but that's about it. It's time verses money, everybody's situation is different.


Thanks for your comments Peter. One thing I do like using the wavetable for is running small samples - gives a quick result and holds the line of gold on the table.


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## PeterM (Apr 8, 2022)

SamW said:


> Thanks for your comments Peter. One thing I do like using the wavetable for is running small samples - gives a quick result and holds the line of gold on the table.


Well, that's it, you nailed it...however with my experience I have never seen any commercial operation using one (or many at once) in world. If there is, Who and Where? Please tell me...


Alondro said:


> I have a little one of those. They are pretty pricey. I only got this small one for melting purified Pt-group metals and for testing mystery minerals in small quantities (such as the black sands concentrated in outflow channels of some NJ Pine sandpits from decades of erosion). Not sure I'll need a large one, unless I miraculously find a super-rich sulfide vein in the jumbled ancient jigsaw puzzle that is northern NJ geology and figure out if I can stake a claim... the law for which in NJ is very convoluted and confusing. I'm sticking with panning for now when the weather's nice, since it's the simplest thing to get permission for. So for the time being, the basic types of crucibles are all I need.


My friend did it for years using a Carpco device on Black Sands. In fact I have seen his concentrate up grade the Black Sands to >500 OPT Au. I know this because I assayed the concentrate(as an independent umpire). The gold was locked up in the BS and a pre-treatment(chemical roast was required before recovery). I'll buy one some day and experiment. The gold was most times found in one of the eight paramagnetic fractions he made.


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## Alondro (Apr 8, 2022)

PeterM said:


> Well, that's it, you nailed it...however with my experience I have never seen any commercial operation using one (or many at once) in world. If there is, Who and Where? Please tell me...
> 
> My friend did it for years using a Carpco device on Black Sands. In fact I have seen his concentrate up grade the Black Sands to >500 OPT Au. I know this because I assayed the concentrate(as an independent umpire). The gold was locked up in the BS and a pre-treatment(chemical roast was required before recovery). I'll buy one some day and experiment. The gold was most times found in one of the eight paramagnetic fractions he made.


I need to find an accurate assay simply to see if anything valuable is in these black sands. I'm seeing reports from people in Medford and Marlton that they found flour gold in many stream samples, so there is clearly some mixed into these ancient sediments where the heavy material has settled. But is it also in the black sand itself? 

There are pieces of other minerals: I've found obsidian, garnet, tourmaline in the fine gravel portion of my classifying. It's an indication that these sediments are from quite a distance away, as these minerals are found in rock in PA and much farther north in NJ. South NJ is made of sediments sometimes HUNDREDS of feet thick. The native bedrock here is very very deep, so what you find came from elsewhere in ancient time!


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## PeterM (Apr 8, 2022)

Alondro said:


> I need to find an accurate assay simply to see if anything valuable is in these black sands. I'm seeing reports from people in Medford and Marlton that they found flour gold in many stream samples, so there is clearly some mixed into these ancient sediments where the heavy material has settled. But is it also in the black sand itself?
> 
> There are pieces of other minerals: I've found obsidian, garnet, tourmaline in the fine gravel portion of my classifying. It's an indication that these sediments are from quite a distance away, as these minerals are found in rock in PA and much farther north in NJ. South NJ is made of sediments sometimes HUNDREDS of feet thick. The native bedrock here is very very deep, so what you find came from elsewhere in ancient time!


Alondro, This is where the spending begins, analysis is never cheap. That is why any major mining company will spend one Million or more on Research & Develop a process on a property. I suggest you learn to do your own. Assaying is almost a lost art anymore, but there are a few old timers still kicking who may help you in your area. I started out a prospector back in 76, it had taken me around the world many times running my own and other peoples companies. I suggest you read *"A Textbook of Fire Assaying*" by Edward Bugbee *here I will give it to you:* https://books.googleusercontent.com...zQGFxMqp4ybtnvDjy39B5GeXyTnRJkzfrv5dxqDIBJnww 
Good Luck


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## PeterM (Apr 9, 2022)

Alondro, if you have a lot of metal you need a lift out furnace, not a toy but the REAL DEAL, I had one like this when i had my foundry. Go to: Gas Fired Melting Furnaces- MIFCO


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## justprofessor49 (May 6, 2022)

Dwf said:


> Has anyone used both of these tables for recovering gold from ore?
> I currently have the wave table, and I’m thinking about switching the the mbmm shaker table. As long as it has an acceptable level of loss, I think the shaker table would be better. Less labor involved in getting a smelt able product.
> But % of recovery is top priority.
> I read the post on the set up in Florida, and like the website videos show, the equipment looks very well built.
> ...


Chat with Jason at MBMMLLC or watch his videos on You Tube.

For more information please contact: 
Phone: 360-595-4445 
Email: [email protected] 
Website: www.MBMMLLC.com 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/MBMMLLC


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## SamW (Oct 11, 2022)

Hey guys, has anyone had experience purchasing from MBMMLLC recently? I'm starting to see a few red flags, hopefully all is good there.


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## elkguy (Oct 21, 2022)

PeterM said:


> Allow me to tell you. The wave table is not a finishing table, it is made for fine, fine gold that is virtually impossible to save in the pan. Even after you use it there is still a problem to separate that balance of the black sand from the fine gold. Meanwhile, the Wifley or Deister table(and I have owned all three of them) two are professional tables while the Wave table does work but is closer to a joke then a serious piece of equipment. In fifty years of mining gold, I have never see one person become successful by using a Wave Table. Meanwhile the Wifley and Deister design tables are superior. Both of them have been copied for the past 100 years because they could work well if set up properly. However, is you have lots of fine gold you should use Gemeni Table for a finisher. Nothing is better then a Gemeni for a finisher.


I agree with what you say on the tables. You see wave tables for sale all the time ,not many of the good tables. Mnt baker equipment is awesome just $$


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## Deano (Oct 21, 2022)

I did a post on setting up a table in my thread Further Things Which May Be Of Interest to Members.
That summarised what I learned in 40 years of practice in commercial tabling.
My experience with wave tables is that they are a useful test unit to see if free gold is present but they are definitely not for large scale use.
The best practical surface on a table is matt white paint on marine plywood. Worth trying various paints as manufacturers have different ideas on what matt actually is.
Gemini tables are really good for putting high throughput rates on a table but have large fines losses. This is not a problem when treating milled ore where the table tails go into a CIP plant, you are after a table concentrate which has all of the coarser gold and sulfides, this con is treated separately in its own leach circuit.
Deano


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## Western Mining (Oct 30, 2022)

Dwf said:


> Has anyone used both of these tables for recovering gold from ore?
> I currently have the wave table, and I’m thinking about switching the the mbmm shaker table. As long as it has an acceptable level of loss, I think the shaker table would be better. Less labor involved in getting a smelt able product.
> But % of recovery is top priority.
> I read the post on the set up in Florida, and like the website videos show, the equipment looks very well built.
> ...


We have both tables in our facility. They serve different purposes. A bump table (Micron Wave Table) is not a through put design and is not intended for bulk ore processing. But it does do a good job of separating heavier particles from the lighter materials. (especially when there is a uniform crush size of the ore).

The MBMM shaker table is our primary gravity separation concentrator for gold and PGMs. We find it to be very effective on particles down to 400 mesh. Once again,that is, when there is a uniform crush size of the ore being ran on it. We run several different types of ore from our mines and our crush size varies from 35 minus to under 200 minus. We typically are getting around 92 to 95% recovery of super fines (200 to 400-) 

In ore that contains extremely large percentages of sulfides we have had to slow down our feed rate and run a second separation run of the middlings and sometimes the Number 2 port cons to get a good separation and higher percentage of heavies in our final cons.

The shaker table is very adjustable as far as water flow goes and that is a critical consideration when separating heavy particles of precious metal from the lighter gaunge materials. (You can speed it up for your initial production run and slow it down to separate concentrates in a second run.) Overall, it is one of the best tables on the market. However, with a starting price around $14,000.00 this is a professional use piece of equipment and not recommended for the average hobbyist or part timer.

MBMM has several good videos on the uses of their table on their YouTube channel. I recommend watching them all and if you have a chance go see one in action in real life. If you use it correctly it is a great table.

We have several videos showing our table in action. They are available to the public on our Western Mining Holdings FB page.

We have no problem recommending these table to anybody as they are well built and well designed.

Good Luck!


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