# plzzzzzz help me



## goldpete (Jul 11, 2012)

tthis picture is after i have evaporated the nitric , i am 100% certain its all gone. then i added 3 times its volume in hot water.

ok , 2 days later now and i see silver residue on the bottom so i fltered again using two coffee filters.
the liquid went clear blue .
now i added half a teaspoon of smb , nothing happened , no reaction . so i added another half ts . still nothing . so i ended up adding 3 teaspoons and it finally reacted. it wasnt a violent reaction but it did start to fizz slightly and went a murky yellow.
ok now its the next day and the solution is a nice clear yellow with creamy yellow sediment.
plz tell me what im dong wrong and where is my gold..

before anyone asks , yes i know there is gold in there . and no i havent tested it with stannous chloride because despite asking on here , i cant work out how to make the liquid with my crystals


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## ericrm (Jul 11, 2012)

how the ... will you know what to do if you dont know where and in what state your gold is...

first find some 50/50 tin lead solder ,or in your case ,i think i understand that you have stannous chloride crystal

with the solder put it in hcl ,boil it a little to make sure that tin got in solution and lead cemented out...
if you realy already have stannous chloride crystal ,simply dissolve them in plain HCl (just like you would do with table salt in water..........)



goldpete said:


> i am 100% certain its all gone


how do you know you haven't tested it????


goldpete said:


> yes i know there is gold in there


 maybe you had gold maybe you don't now, how do you know... you haven't tested it

what was your starting material?

edit: it is just for the joke of it so dont take it to bad... but if your unable to dissolve salt in water maybe you should think of putting it back in the box and find an other hobby :twisted: :mrgreen:


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## ericrm (Jul 11, 2012)

goldpete said:


> the liquid went clear blue .


right there i think you have no gold in your solution................


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## MMFJ (Jul 12, 2012)

goldpete said:


> tthis picture is after i have evaporated the nitric , i am 100% certain its all gone. then i added 3 times its volume in hot water.
> 
> ok , 2 days later now and i see silver residue on the bottom so i fltered again using two coffee filters.
> the liquid went clear blue .
> ...


I'm not a refiner (chemicals and me don't mix - mostly because I have no place to play with them, but that's another story...).

However, I am a good listener and can often find ways for others to help them help themselves. Gotta tell you, in hearing your story, it sounds to me like you are 'demanding' help, yet 'already know' x, y and even z, though you are confused that the facts aren't like the "answers" you already "know".

Whenever something like that happens, that's the time to go back to basics, and ask POLITELY to get some help by
1. Stating what you started with (not knowing that, perhaps you used the wrong method on the item?)
2. Going through a bit slower about the steps you took to get to this point (starting with "tthis picture is after i have evaporated the nitric" leaves the reader to have to presume you hit every step [and all 100% correctly - but could you have made a mistake there?] before that, but, again, read #1...)
3. Not being so "SURE" of yourself and claiming things like "i am 100% certain its all gone", "yes i know there is gold in there" (without stating what you started with, how can the reader be sure how much you are looking for or if it can ever be found?), "before anyone asks" (I'm originally from Oklahoma and I have to say "them's fightin' words!" to be sure! - you won't get a nice reaction [human one, I mean!] starting off like that...) 
4. (and, yes, on this forum, it is the BIGGEST of BIGGIE NO-NOs!) - never, ever say "i havent tested it with stannous chloride"! :!: 

THE way to get help around here (and I have to say from experience, really, anywhere in the world...) is to be OPEN about what you are trying to do, SINCERE in asking for help (and knowing that those providing it are doing it out of the kindness of their hearts - whether you are paying them or not...) and GRATEFUL for the time and effort they spend on your situation. I've seen it go far around here, and I'll just bet you that you'll get an almost instantaneous reaction [there I go with those refining terms again - must be rubbing off! 8) ] from the experts around here.

Anything else will only get you frustration and anger, because no one can answer your question - (and believe me, they want to!) - if you don't form it in a way they can understand what has been going on.

Give it a try - what's it gonna hurt?


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## tek4g63 (Jul 12, 2012)

Ok, I'll try to help you with what I can. Its up to you to do the work though, and report back for further help. I guess what I'm saying is, help us - help you.

This is step one, we can't help help you any further till you do this, take pictures and report back. Its up to you.

* How i, as a hobbyist, make my stannous:
1. Go to your local hardware store, home depot, lowes, or walmart and get a small spool of silver solder. NO FLUX CORE. It shouldn't cost much. Will probably be something like 2% silver, 98% tin.
2. Put some hydrochloric acid in a small jar, 12-30% HCL will work.
3. Place about 20 grams or so of the solder in the HCL. You may have to use more or less solder depending on the volume of HCL in your jar.
4. Add heat to the jar to dissolve the solder quickly, or just let it sit for a few hours.
5. After solder is dissolved, there will be a black powder in the bottom of the jar, that is the silver. You can filter it out.
6. Keep adding solder until no more will dissolve in solution.

And there you have it. A very basic stannous. It works well for me.

If you want the solder to dissolve faster, you can melt it with a torch and let it drip on a stainless steel pan to form flat discs. Then twist these discs a bit before you drop them into your HCL.

Then use this to test for gold, take a picture if the test swab and post it back here. Help should come quickly after that.

I hope that I have helped you, at least a little bit.


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## maynman1751 (Jul 12, 2012)

> first find some *50/50 tin lead *solder



Definitely DO NOT use this! You never want lead in your solution. The solder is usually 95/5...95% tin...5%antimony. Dissolve the way Tek instructed you. It's as easy as falling off a log! I'm quite syre that Ericrm simply made a mistake about the solder.


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## ericrm (Jul 12, 2012)

maynman1751 said:


> > first find some *50/50 tin lead *solder
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely DO NOT use this! You never want lead in your solution. The solder is usually 95/5...95% tin...5%antimony. Dissolve the way Tek instructed you. It's as easy as falling off a log! I'm quite syre that Ericrm simply made a mistake about the solder.



it work very fine as long has you let the lead cement out. final


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## etack (Jul 12, 2012)

All things have been disused before very little is ever new; use the search box on Steve's site or Google this is the first topic in Google "stannous chloride crystals" the Wikipedia has it to. 

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13744

Eric


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## tek4g63 (Jul 12, 2012)

etack said:


> All things have been disused before very little is ever new; use the search box on Steve's site or Google this is the first topic in Google "stannous chloride crystals" the Wikipedia has it to.
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13744
> 
> Eric



You are correct Eric. None of this is new, any advice or methods I post I have learned on here. Nearly all my notes are direct quotes from other members on this forum. I wish that I could give them all credit individually, but as a huge oversight on my part I did not put their names in my notes. I have learned everything I know about recovery and refining on this forum. I do not trust any other source, mostly because I don't need to. :mrgreen:


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## gold4mike (Jul 12, 2012)

I keep Stannous Chloride crystals as a backup for when my liquid has gone bad. It only takes 10 minutes or so to rejuvenate it with more tin but sometimes I'm in a hurry and don't want to wait.

Simply put a drop or more of the solution you want to test in a spot plate or white plastic spoon, add a crystal, look at the result.

You don't need to dissolve the crystal in anything. It will work fine on its own.


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## goldpete (Jul 13, 2012)

gold4mike said:


> I keep Stannous Chloride crystals as a backup for when my liquid has gone bad. It only takes 10 minutes or so to rejuvenate it with more tin but sometimes I'm in a hurry and don't want to wait.
> 
> Simply put a drop or more of the solution you want to test in a spot plate or white plastic spoon, add a crystal, look at the result.
> 
> You don't need to dissolve the crystal in anything. It will work fine on its own.





ok thanks to everyone who has given me advice .
i seem to be having problems xplaining what ive done and as a result im not getting answers . for example , the reason i know for sure that there is gold in the solution is because i saw it when i put it in the aqua regia. 
so what im going to do is make a video right from the beginning where i soak the phone and computer curcuit boards in nitric , right up to adding smb.
then hopefully people can tell me where im going wrong.


caneveryone keepan eye out for the video , it should be posted in a couple of days


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## tek4g63 (Jul 13, 2012)

That's all well and good and I want to see this video, but are you going to make some testing solution? Videos are nice but they can't replace testing, because if you can test, you won't need to ask for help. Seems to me that making some stannous would be less trouble than making a video and then waiting for someone to tell you what to do next. But maybe I'm not thinking correctly in my sleep deprived state.

Good luck. I hope you get where you are wanting to go.


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## jeneje (Jul 13, 2012)

tek4g63 said:


> That's all well and good and I want to see this video, but are you going to make some testing solution? Videos are nice but they can't replace testing, because if you can test, you won't need to ask for help. Seems to me that making some stannous would be less trouble than making a video and then waiting for someone to tell you what to do next. But maybe I'm not thinking correctly in my sleep deprived state.
> 
> Good luck. I hope you get where you are wanting to go.


I would like to see the video to. Testing is the key.
Ken


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## goldpete (Jul 13, 2012)

jeneje said:


> tek4g63 said:
> 
> 
> > That's all well and good and I want to see this video, but are you going to make some testing solution? Videos are nice but they can't replace testing, because if you can test, you won't need to ask for help. Seems to me that making some stannous would be less trouble than making a video and then waiting for someone to tell you what to do next. But maybe I'm not thinking correctly in my sleep deprived state.
> ...




lmao . i like your optimism . but honestly making stannous is the hardest thing ive had to deal with so far. i have tried so many ways ,ive lost count .
ive triedeverything people have said except for adding tinbe cause i dont have any . but my supplyer rang me and said its turned up so i will be picking it up tomorrow.
im still puzzledas to why i need tin if stannous chloride is made from tin and hcl , then my stannous crystals should be stannous in crystal form.

but hopefully when i pick up the tin tomorrow and then make it as per hoks book says . it should work.
ive read the book countless times now , and ive listened to everyones advice on here . and to be honest , im beginning to think that this whole idea of getting gold from computer scrap and phones is just a nasty joke and ive fallen for it


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## jeneje (Jul 13, 2012)

goldpete said:


> jeneje said:
> 
> 
> > tek4g63 said:
> ...


goldpete, all you have to do for stannous is go to a plumbing supply store, ask for tin solder, dislove 1 pennyweight of the tin solder into one once of HCL and you will have stannous testing solution. I don't understand why it's that hard for you. If gold is all you are wanting to reclaim you would be well served to read the first one hunderd pages of Hokes book until you have a complete understanding of the process. It's all there and then if you run into a prolbem you will understand what the good people here are talking about when they try to help you. 
Ken


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## butcher (Jul 13, 2012)

goldpete,

There are hundreds of ways to mess things up, you can spend you time trying all of the different way's there are to lose your gold, and still not learn to recover or refine it, or you can read Hokes as suggested, start out with small getting acquainted experiments, learn to deal with different situations, learn what works and how to tell if it is working, and also how to deal with it when it does not work, in a way your working backwards, trying to learn by trying things before you have an understanding, or the materials or resources to know how to use them like the example of not having made stannous chloride and learning it to identify gold in solution before you tried to recover gold, these experiments should have been performed and understood before you dissolved your gold and tried to refine it.

You need to look at how you wish to learn, by struggling from one problem to the next without knowing what to do next, hoping someone else can tell you what you have in a pot by some colored solution, this will only get you up to your next problem to have to be resolved, and it may never get you any gold, and it definitely will not give you an understanding to be able to work on your own and have an understanding of the processes and reactions to deal with every situation on your own.

Finish up this batch and then stop trying to recover and refine (working backwards), start fresh with Hoke's book and her experiments, work on these experiments in controlled conditions to learn the basics, how to deal with the chemistry involved, and also how to deal with the situations which you will encounter when you do begin to recover or refine, basically get the education of how to fly before you buy an airplane and drive it off of the cliff.

You say the stannous made with tin powder will not work, how do you know it is not working? It could be working and telling you that you do not have gold in solution as you think just because you put gold in acid doe's not mean it is still there, if you had done some controlled experiments with the stannous chloride powder on some known gold solution, and then some controlled experiments with your stannous chloride on some barren solution you would have the knowledge you needed to determine if the present solution had gold or was barren, you would also have the knowledge that your stannous solution would or would not work, you would not be working in the dark as you are now.

Think about it do you really want to blindfold yourself and get in that airplane sitting on the edge of the cliff and turn it on before you learn to fly?

You tried this the wrong way, is it working for you? Think about trying it the right way, follow everyone’s suggestion and get Hoke’s and put that to work for you.


Learn from small experiments and studying reactions, studying Hoke's and information on the forum, start small learn to walk before running, it takes some time (less time than your wasting now), in the long run you will be up and running and not still tripping all over yourself wondering what is going wrong by trying to work in the dark, not even knowing how to walk yet.

I think you’re a smart man and can see what we are trying to tell you is what you need to do, do not let a little gold in this solution keep you so involved in trying to do it backwards that you cannot see the right direction to go, (which is find a good chair and a good book (Hoke’s book) and learn to fly.


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## Palladium (Jul 13, 2012)

I can't count the times i screwed up and wanted to quit. One of them being a couple of days ago. I had several oz tied up in solution and it just wouldn't drop. Test said it was there. No excess nitric being it was the 2nd run and i didn't over shoot the nitric. I even added urea which i try not to use unless i have to. The smb wasn't working and i was scratching my head wondering what gives. I walked away and thought what the heck. I then walked back and stired it and added a couple of drops of hcl and BAM! The gold also washed up to be an almost pink color when i was done with it. That was a first.

If your in the U.S. and will send me your address i will send you some tin solder for free to use.


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## goldpete (Jul 14, 2012)

etack said:


> All things have been disused before very little is ever new; use the search box on Steve's site or Google this is the first topic in Google "stannous chloride crystals" the Wikipedia has it to.
> 
> http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13744
> 
> Eric



i know its been discussed before and asi said , ive tried doing what eeryone has suggested and nothing is working


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## Harold_V (Jul 15, 2012)

goldpete said:


> i know its been discussed before and asi said , ive tried doing what eeryone has suggested and nothing is working


How do you know? I'm having a little trouble with the notion that you are making stannous chloride by following instructions provided by these guys, and you aren't achieving success. It is my opinion that it your stannous chloride most likely IS working---but you don't have anything of value. It stands to reason that if you did have, you'd enjoy success by at least one of these procedures. 

Do you have a gold standard solution? If not, why not? How, otherwise, can you possibly know that your stannous isn't working? 

Go back, read Hoke. Read Hoke until you understand what she teaches. It's all in there---and there's no black magic involved. Follow the methods promoted and you will achieve success, guaranteed. 

Harold


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## trashmaster (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi pete;

What was your starting material and how did you recover the ( socalled ) gold from it ???

Please explain everything that you did so that members here know what todeal with ..

and how much material did you start with????


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## goldpete (Aug 4, 2012)

ok i tried making a video but my camera decided it no longer wants to work. so here is an update.
i have now been doing everything by the book . i have been adding sulfuric acid and evaprating as mentioned in hokes book.
i believe i have finally recovered gold . but i wont know till i try to melt it . what i have so far is a completely clear liquid that just looks like water, with a dark sediment that just looks like very fine sand or dust. i only have a small amount because im working with small batches at a time.
so it seems im finally getting somewhere .
but im still having problems with stannous cholride testing solution . ill try and explain EXACTLY what ive done and i would love people opinions and help.

in a small 100ml bottle i put 75mls of water
then i put 1.5 grams of stannous chloride crystals
also 1.5 grams of tin granules
and 30 drops of hcl acid

i have shaken it and used it with an eye dropper on tissue paper on some solution and again i got no result.

now i know there was gold because ..............(1) i could see it sparkling like there was no tomorrow
(2) i used 5 small batches of nitric soaked connector pins and cell phone parts , all drained through the same coffee filter and rinsed thoroughly till only clear liquid came through before i soaked the filter and its contents in AR.

i used sulfuric acid and evaporated just as described in hokes book including adding hcl when the ar was reduced to a syrup.

as i said , i now have a totally clear liquid with fine dark sediment.

so can someone tell me why my stannous testing liquid still wont work .
i made the mix i just explained over a week ago and so far none of the tin granules have disolved


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## butcher (Aug 4, 2012)

I would work on the stannous test. 

Make up a small gold (standard)solution (test tube batch) using HCl/ bleach and some gold foils, heat to drive off chlorine gas,

Now take a small piece of 95% tin solder smash it very flat with a clean hammer on another clean metal surface, twist it to a curl and dissolve it in some HCl, to form your stannous chloride solution,

Now you can take your gold (standard) solution and test your stannous chloride solution.

You can also experiment a little , by diluting the solution and see what happens, or add a little oxidizer like bleach or chlorine to a few drops of your standard and test it with stannous, or add a drop or two of copper chloride solution, trying different things to see how they effect your tests can help you get more of an idea of results.

"now i know there was gold because ..............(1) i could see it sparkling like there was no tomorrow" 

If you could see gold then it was not dissolved, and stannous will not test for it. 
You will know when you have gold in dissolved solution, when the stannous chloride test is positive. If you suspect your stanous is not working you can test it against a known gold standard solution.


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## goldpete (Aug 4, 2012)

butcher said:


> I would work on the stannous test.
> 
> Make up a small gold (standard)solution (test tube batch) using HCl/ bleach and some gold foils, heat to drive off chlorine gas,
> 
> ...


i think you missunderstood what i was saying buddy.

i said i could see it sparkling and that was after i had soaked the starting material in nitric to remove base metals . i poured 5 batches of nitric soaked material through the same filter , and there was soooooooooo much gold vissible. 
then i soaked that coffee filter in AR


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## butcher (Aug 4, 2012)

That makes more sense, you had gold flakes after nitric but dissolved these in aqua regia, after removal of the nitric in the solution, is this when your stannous test would not work or after precipitating the gold?

If gold is in solution with nitric the stannous chloride test will not work or can show color for a brief period and then disappear. 

if after you precipitated gold it is possible that that precipitant was all of the gold in solution and there is no more for the stannous test to detect.

Or something is wrong with your stannous chloride.

Doing the experiments with stannous chloride and the known gold solution ,also experimenting with other testing less than ideal solutions can help you determine what may be going on.
try a concentrated gold solution, then a very dilute solution, and so on, just spend some time getting acquainted with the stannous chloride test.


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## TXWolfie (Aug 5, 2012)

Have a question about the use of the tin solder I bought some a while back does it matter if it has that string in it or not. I attempted to make Stannous the solder bubbled away and the string was inside.

Rich


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## Geo (Aug 5, 2012)

Rich, ive used the same solder and it worked fine for me.


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## TXWolfie (Aug 5, 2012)

okay thank you


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## goldpete (Aug 5, 2012)

i tried to test my gold solution with the testing liquid i explained earlier , after the solution was heated to evaporate the nitric . i got no reaction , then i added smb to drop the gold and then tested the remaming solution to see if it still had gold and again i got no reation.

the stannous chloride crystals and the tin grabuals are all brand new from the supplier , so is the hcl acid and as u see by the way i mixed it , i made it as mentioned in hokes book .
and i have what looks like gold dust so i have no idea why i cant get stannous to work


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## ericrm (Aug 5, 2012)

goldpete said:


> i tried to test my gold solution with the testing liquid i explained earlier , after the solution was heated to evaporate the nitric . i got no reaction , then i added smb to drop the gold and then tested the remaming solution to see if it still had gold and again i got no reation.
> 
> the stannous chloride crystals and the tin grabuals are all brand new from the supplier , so is the hcl acid and as u see by the way i mixed it , i made it as mentioned in hokes book .
> and i have what looks like gold dust so i have no idea why i cant get stannous to work


 do not use your powder ,use gold that your sure off...
do you still have gold flake ,your need very little. get the finger off from 2/3 pci card with nitric acid. than put those foil in the smallest beaker you have ,add a spoon of hcl and a spoon off bleach(maybe even less will be needed),it should be enuf to dissolve this little foil. your will have a solution to test your stannous chloride .


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## goldpete (Aug 5, 2012)

ericrm said:


> goldpete said:
> 
> 
> > i tried to test my gold solution with the testing liquid i explained earlier , after the solution was heated to evaporate the nitric . i got no reaction , then i added smb to drop the gold and then tested the remaming solution to see if it still had gold and again i got no reation.
> ...




if i diod that , wouldnt i need to evaporate offthe nitric ? (i dont have bleach , i use nitric in my AR)
and how do i evaporate such a small quantity ?


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## ericrm (Aug 5, 2012)

lol ,go to the market and buy a gallon of clorox(javel) it is woth 2 box , and it will be very well spend :lol: 

if you realy cant find clorox(javel) :shock: well ,add your nitric by the *drop*(literaly),until your gold has disolve(heat your solution to make sure you dont add too much nitric acid and you will not have to denox ....


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## goldpete (Aug 7, 2012)

ericrm said:


> lol ,go to the market and buy a gallon of clorox(javel) it is woth 2 box , and it will be very well spend :lol:
> 
> if you realy cant find clorox(javel) :shock: well ,add your nitric by the *drop*(literaly),until your gold has disolve(heat your solution to make sure you dont add too much nitric acid and you will not have to denox ....


 
i have a link from a 9crt bracelet when it broke , ive kept the broken link . could u use that or do you recomend i pick out some gold leaf from the nitric soaked curcuit boards


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## butcher (Aug 7, 2012)

goldpete, 
Make your standard solution for testing your stannous with as pure gold as you can get, it would not take much gold, to make a small bottle of solution to test your stannous solution with (as you only need a drop for each test), I would not use gold from a circuit board unless it was free of solder (tin), finger foils would work if you were careful to clip them clean (to keep any solder or tin out of solution), then you could remove copper from these with HNO3, the 9 karat link could also be used but for this I would in-quarter it with silver before dissolving out the silver and copper with nitric acid to separate the gold.

The reason the members are trying to get you to use bleach with your HCl to dissolve your gold for your standard testing solution is that chlorine gas is much easier to remove from solution than the nitric acid is, you can use nitric but it is a little harder to deal with.

If you do use nitric and HCl to make your standard solution try this, use the gold you got from the process of parting the gold from base metals with nitric acid (we discussed above), give this gold a boil in water let it settle and decant water while still hot, take a (portion) of this gold powder add HCl to cover powder heat the solution, after heating add a drop of HNO3 continue to heat, some gold will go into solution, if all of the gold is dissolved you can add more gold, the idea here is to get gold into solution but we also want to have some gold left un-dissolved when we are done (as long as we have excess HCl) this way we will have gold in solution, and as long as we have gold powder left un-dissolved, then we have no free nitric acid remaining in solution, so after concentrating this solution some we can dilute it (to precipitate any silver that followed through to this point), let this sit overnight then decant and filter this gold solution into a small bottle, try a drop of this gold solution on a filter paper with a drop of your freshly made stannous chloride solution, if you get a pretty violet reaction, then both your standard gold solution and your stannous chloride are good.


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## trashmaster (Aug 15, 2012)

when you make your stannous .... Post edited I was wrong sorry.


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 15, 2012)

trashmaster said:


> when you make your stannous DO NOT USE WATER :::::no where does hoke say use water...;;;;



Ms. Hoke certainly *does say to use water* - page 93 - 1.55g stannous chloride + about 25ml tap water + 25-30 drops HCl. Then she adds some tin metal (< 1oz) which dissolves very slowly and increases the shelf life.

I usually used about 1g stannous chloride, about 20ml water, and about 10ml HCl. Worked great. In my experience, exact ratios of these three things aren't that important. I think Ms. Hoke used much less HCl to prevent the tin metal she added to the solution from dissolving too rapidly, which would reduce the shelf life.

For years, I simply put a drop of the unknown solution on a piece of torn-off filter filter, then added a couple of stannous chloride crystals from the tip of my pocket knife, and, finally a drop of water. When gold and PGMs were present, they formed different colored rings on the paper. Sort of like paper chromatography. This works best with filter paper that doesn't absorb and spread the liquid too quickly. Coffee filters don't work well at all for this.


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## trashmaster (Aug 15, 2012)

I stand corrected ,,, I will edit my post.


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## awbrew (Aug 15, 2012)

Seriously you got love this Forum, If you've been here a while and read the postings that are the same Mistakes/Questions and what seems that one hasn't read Hoke. These guys still give it their best to explain, once again. 
What they have already said or answered in over 100 post a each. Thanks Geo, Butcher, Palladium, Harold and so many other that contribute. Kind of makes your wonder if there isn't a little pile of hair beside their coffee and keyboard!!!


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