# Extracting gold from gold filled Jewelry



## Ian18206

Hello everyone I'm new to this forum,and so far it seems like a great environment. I just had a few questions to ask everyone. I started a batch of gold filled jewelry, which i have never done before. I read a lot about the process but couldn't get exact details on how to do it. So what i have done so far is to dilute it i was supposed to put it in a 1 to 1 solution of 70% nitric and distilled water. and the reaction hours later has completely stopped. the liquid has became blue in color and i see flakes of gold floating at the top. it didn't completely dissolve the gold filled jewelry because its still at the bottom of the jar. I was just wondering if i should gather the flakes and run them through aqua ragia, or if I'm supposed to filter the solution and keep the gold flakes and then run the remains at the bottom of the jar through ar. Or if i just completely did the wrong process for gold filled. Please help me out guys I've never done gold filled before and would locw to hear from you all. 
Thanks
Ian


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## Geo

your reaction may have run out of nitric before it was completed.some gold filled jewelry will hold its shape even after the base metal has been dissolved depending on the type and wear. filter the solution you have now into a clean vessel to reclaim the silver and replace the solution with fresh acid and start the reaction again to be sure you have dissolved all the base metal.

it is a good idea to incinerate gold filled jewelry before you start the process to remove any organic material.

did you process any watch bands? if so,did you remove the stainless steel and springs?

after your sure the base metal is dissolved, then you can move on to AR. from the sound of it your doing pretty good so far.


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## philddreamer

Hi Ian!
I agree with Geo.

I hope you read all about how to handle safely the chemicals used for recovering & refining the PM's, especially nitric, since no "cartridge type" respirator will filter out nitric fumes, NONE!!! You must do the process under a fume hood or outside...

You also need to learn to calculate how much nitric is needed in order to complete the digestion of the base metals. 

Did you apply heat to the solution? This will speed up the process & also get the most out of your nitric.

Take care & be safe!

Phil


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## goldsilverpro

Definitely use heat.


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## Harold_V

Because of the potential filtering problems that accompany gold filled objects, there's a step that I never see discussed. The benefits outweigh any inconvenience, so I strongly suggest you pay attention. 

Once all of the base metals have been dissolved, the remaining solids should be incinerated. They should then be given a wash in heated HCl. Rinse well, then dissolve the remains with the solvent of choice (I used aqua regia). The second incineration and HCl wash does wonders towards cleaning up troublesome traces, and ensures that the resulting solution will filter without issue. The gold that results form the added treatment tends to be of excellent quality. 

Harold


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## Ian18206

Thank you everyone!! I appreciate you guys supporting me with more knowledge! Everytime i ask locals that do gold processing they won't help me at all! So i need to filter the solution? And the the gold flakes on top floating, is that gold or just base metal as well. If its gold, do i filter that out and just melt it? and i understand you said to run it through nitric again, by doing so is the gold supposed to float the top again? because from what i understand gold will not dissolve unless its mixed with nitric and hcl. But anyhow sorry for all the questions and thanks for the feedback!
Ian


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## Geo

when you filter your solution, add what is in the filter back to finish the reaction (any gold flakes or solids). just rinse the filter back into your reaction vessel. after the reaction is complete, there shouldnt be much of anything but gold left. follow the directions of all the other post on this topic. dont forget to incinerate and wash with hot hcl.


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## Ian18206

Thank you geo! i just filtered the solution and there a bunch of flakes and what appears to be metals that are stripped at the bottom of the solution. I'm gonna run it all through nitric and water one more time, filter it and melt the gold. thanks for all the help!


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## Barren Realms 007

Ian18206 said:


> Thank you geo! i just filtered the solution and there a bunch of flakes and what appears to be metals that are stripped at the bottom of the solution. I'm gonna run it all through nitric and water one more time, filter it and melt the gold. thanks for all the help!



That is not what the instructions were. If you skip steps your final product will suffer.


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## Ian18206

Ok so i need to wash with hcl before i melt it?


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## Barren Realms 007

Ian18206 said:


> Ok so i need to wash with hcl before i melt it?



Well, after the HCL wash you neen to disslove your gold into a solution of HCL/clorox or HCL/nitric and then drop your gold out of solution with SMB( sodium metabisulphite) or copperas. Siphon off your solution and then wash your gold powder in alternate water and HCL washes 2 cycles of 3 times each. Then redissolve your gold into solution again and drop it out of solution again. Wash your powder in waster 3-4 times then slowly dry your powder, then you are ready to melt it.

You should find a link to Hokes book found in many of the members sig lines and download it and start reading.

Good luck. 8)


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## Ian18206

alright that sounds great! I really appreciate all of your help! Ive never processed gold filled and I'm hoping i can get it done successfully! I have about ten pounds of ceramic cpu s I'm gonna be working on tomorrow and I'm pretty sure I've got it down. All i do is break them all, then put them in aqua ragia. then filter a few times then use sm to make a muddy gold appearance. filter and melt. Its just i can't ever get it 999 its always 94-96% pure. but thank you so much for the info!


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## philddreamer

> Its just i can't ever get it 999 its always 94-96% pure.



Process the gold powder a second time thru HCl-Cl or HCl-Nitric. That should do the job! 8) 
Phil


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## nickvc

All the advise you have been given is spot on as always but to I will try to explain why you don't melt the GF after the nitric or hydrochloric. The left over material will have been leached of base metals and silver fairly well after the nitric if done properly and the incineration, not melting, of the powders and solids will help form oxides which the hydrochloric can again leach but you won't remove all the base metals,so if you melt you won't get fine gold and bars are much more difficult to dissolve than powders hence the advice to redissolve the powders. Don't forget to use your stannous on any solutions you create, regular testing should be done, especially when your new to refining, even if you suspect no values have been dissolved rather than assuming there are no values present.


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## Harold_V

Ian18206 said:


> alright that sounds great! I really appreciate all of your help! Ive never processed gold filled and I'm hoping i can get it done successfully! I have about ten pounds of ceramic cpu s I'm gonna be working on tomorrow and I'm pretty sure I've got it down. All i do is break them all, then put them in aqua ragia. then filter a few times then use sm to make a muddy gold appearance. filter and melt. Its just i can't ever get it 999 its always 94-96% pure.


Small wonder! You keep leaving out a proper wash procedure and a re-dissolution and you'll continue with the 94-96% results. Please pay attention to EVERYTHING you are told, not just the part you want to acknowledge. 

Harold


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## Lobby

nickvc said:


> All the advise you have been given is spot on as always but to I will try to explain why you don't melt the GF after the nitric or hydrochloric. The left over material will have been leached of base metals and silver fairly well after the nitric if done properly and the incineration, not melting, of the powders and solids will help form oxides which the hydrochloric can again leach but you won't remove all the base metals,so if you melt you won't get fine gold and bars are much more difficult to dissolve than powders hence the advice to redissolve the powders. Don't forget to use your stannous on any solutions you create, regular testing should be done, especially when your new to refining, even if you suspect no values have been dissolved rather than assuming there are no values present.


 
This is good advice. 

And don't forget Harold's advice re incineration before the HCl wash. This is an important step. 

If you don't, the traces of nitric that will inevitably be present will make AR when you add the HCl, dissolving (and losing) your precious gold.


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## promogoons

Harold:
could you clarify ?
after the initial treatment to dissolve the bulk of the gold from the jewelry , you take the solids left in the bottom, and incenerate that ?
then once more treat the incnerated, washed solids with the nitric solution again ? is this to remove the last traces of gold ?


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## Harold_V

promogoons said:


> Harold:
> could you clarify ?
> after the initial treatment to dissolve the bulk of the gold from the jewelry , you take the solids left in the bottom, and incenerate that ?
> then once more treat the incnerated, washed solids with the nitric solution again ? is this to remove the last traces of gold ?


Please read what I said again, and try to forget what you posted here. If you don't, you're going to repeat the mistake you made time and again. However, for clarity, I'll detail what you're doing wrong (at least mentally). 

Once all of the base metals have been dissolved, you're left with solids of many descriptions. These solids are gathered (either by filtration, or by settling), then incinerated. The filter itself should be included in the incineration, assuming you've used one. 

After incineration, the solids are given a wash with HCl (not nitric), and then rinsed until the rinse water is clear of color. This operation eliminates substances that complicate filtration of the values, once dissolved. If you wash with nitric, as you suggested, you'll simply re-create the same problems you're trying to eliminate. 

When the final rinse has been completed, you simply dissolve the solids with the solvent of your choosing (mine was AR). There is no reason to filter the material again until you are ready to precipitate. 

Harold


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## promogoons

Ok , now I understand. Thanks.
BTW , I havent even begun collecting the gear to do this yet , just studying atm.


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## cincyfriz

Can this be done to achieve the same result?

1. Take 100 grams of 14k gold jewelry 
2. Alloy this 100 grams with 500 grams of copper to get just less than 20% pure gold (1/5 is 20% but you have to account for 14k content, which is about 58% gold)
3. SMELT the 14k jewelry with the 500 grams of copper and then drip pour slowly into water to get cornflake type of material
4. Take the cornflake alloy and soak in nitric.
5. Rinse and repeat until all alloied metal is liquidified...
6. Pour off the liquid base metal and then separate the black gold mud into a separate glass jar
7. Rinse the black mud with ammonia several times until the pour off is no longer colored and is all clear.
8. INCENERATE (slowly heat up to burn off any chemicals) until black mud is coco brown color
9. Take the coco powder and then smelt into gold bar.

This process would allow you to precipitate your silver out of the poured off solution from the spent nitric by dropping copper into the solution. This process would also ensure no gold is lost if you keep all your liquid in a big bucket. If you really wanted to you could precipitate your copper from the solution by placing zinc into the bucket. (Make sure to do the math so you don't put too much metal into the solutions causing a result that is less than perfect)

Why does everyone insist on using Aqua Regia to refine their gold? I was taught by Gldman from eBay. This guy is brilliant and all my gold is ALWAYS 99.99% on my XRF.


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## Palladium

cincyfriz said:


> Why does everyone insist on using Aqua Regia to refine their gold?



That's what i keep asking? :mrgreen:


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## g_axelsson

cincyfriz, look up inquarting. It's an old and well known method of refining gold and has been used for 500 years.

If you use silver instead of copper it will save a lot acid and the silver is easily recovered, that will also remove some of the platinum group metals that inquarting with copper wouldn't get.

I guess that the main reason people using AR is purity and that it takes less acid. With AR you can separate Pt, Ir and so on too, there are a couple of other metals that resists nitric acid too that takes AR to get rid of.

For amateurs that have a hard time to get cheap nitric acid there are other workarounds to eliminate or minimize nitric usage.

Göran


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## nickvc

Indian jewellers use the same method but I doubt you can achieve 9999 using just nitric,you can definitely get 99% + but if you sell on assay it matters not what exactly you gold percentage is.


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## g_axelsson

99.99% on XRF... with what accuracy? +/-???%
To get four digits of precision it has to be a research grade machine at least. Handheld devices is probably a lot less accurate.

I did some digging and found two articles. The first one discussed precision versus accuracy. Really good read with a lot of graphics to explain that it isn't the same thing.
https://ndtlibrary.asnt.org/scholar/access/2017/AccuracyPrecisionandConfidenceinXrayFluorescenceforPositiveMaterialIdentification.pdf

Then I found this article that compared the accuracy between different gold assay methods.
http://www.folioinstruments.com/faq/faq%20oxford/real%20word%20accuraracy%20of%20xrf.pdf

Göran


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## upcyclist

cincyfriz said:


> Can this be done to achieve the same result?
> 
> 1. Take 100 grams of 14k gold jewelry
> 2. Alloy this 100 grams with 500 grams of copper to get just less than 20% pure gold (1/5 is 20% but you have to account for 14k content, which is about 58% gold)


I thought I'd point out that this is a thread on gold-filled jewelry, not karat jewelry.

As Goran pointed out, inquarting is the way to go. I wanted to call step #2 insexting, but 100g 14K to 500g Cu is even less than that--more like indecimating?


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## Topher_osAUrus

upcyclist said:


> I thought I'd point out that this is a thread on gold-filled jewelry, not karat jewelry.
> 
> As Goran pointed out, inquarting is the way to go. I wanted to call step #2 insexting, but 100g 14K to 500g Cu is even less than that--more like indecimating?


Maybe "incredibly unnecessary".
And, of course, you are right that this is a goldfilled thread, but! (Wait for it)
Maybe!
Maybe That's why he posted it here, because he is taking the gold content to new lows of standard practice. What's goldfilled's gold content (allegedly), 2.5%?(hah! If you're lucky)

So maybe that is the puzzle piece thats missing. Or maybe Im just a donkey('s expletive).
But, I do think it is very unfrugal to use copper, and use so much of it.

If thats the knowledge being sold on ebay...Well, I guess they should have bought from Ralph instead


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## FrugalRefiner

Topher_osAUrus said:


> I do think it is very unfrugal


 :shock: :shock: :shock:

:lol:


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## Topher_osAUrus

Just sayin!


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## Palladium

Topher_osAUrus said:


> Well, I guess they should have bought from Ralph instead



We ran out of knowledge!
It's on back order! :mrgreen:


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## nickvc

If members insist on using copper to refine then why not simply make it a 95% + copper alloy and use a copper cell to do the recovery for you, that way you get pure copper and slimes with the values in.
Now that's frugal


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## upcyclist

nickvc said:


> If members insist on using copper to refine then why not simply make it a 95% + copper alloy and use a copper cell to do the recovery for you, that way you get pure copper and slimes with the values in.
> Now that's frugal


Better yet, don't refine it, just sell it as shakudo and call it a day! :lol:


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## 4metals

> and all my gold is ALWAYS 99.99% on my XRF.



If your gold is reading .9999 on your XRF after inquarting with copper and parting in nitric, I suggest you replace your XRF! If you had said .995 it may be believable, but you still have a lot of copper laden waste to get rid of *and* ammoniacal waste. Too much wasted copper, and stinky ammonia! 

I have taught many small jewelers going back over 30 years to inquart in silver and part with nitric to recover .995+ gold to recycle back into new jewelry. The major contaminant is silver which they likely will be adding to the new alloy anyway so no issue. The difference is they added silver as many have advised you. Your acid usage will be 1/3 of the acid usage if you inquart with copper and there will be no need to use ammonia washes. And, this should go without saying, you recover all of the silver that you added plus what was in the original alloy. 

Welcome to the forum cincyfriz, if you are already doing some refining and own an XRF your experiences and contributions will be welcomed here. But there are some things you learn on the internet that are not the best ways to go about refining, here on GRF they are quickly exposed and debated. In essence bad techniques are exposed for what they are and everyone benefits. Again, welcome!


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## FlimsySloth

This post is helpful especially for a newbie like me, heads up to advisors here.


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## twhittaker67

My issue with AR is it's strength. I learned the hard way as a beginner that it dissolves the gold, steel, brass, and most metals in the jewelry, A beginner might find oneself self with gold in solution alright, along with every other metal in the piece. This leaves one having to precipitate lead, and other metals out before one can precipitate out the gold with SMB. That was my first try, I am sure I made many other mistakes as an amateur chemist. I finally recovered my two ounces of silver and a few grams of gold but it was long process that turned me off the whole thing for about a year. 
I am almost ready to try again but I wonder if gold filled coating can be removed by reverse electrolysis like gold plating? It seem far less labor and chemical intensive. Any suggestions would be welcomed.


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## nickvc

When processing gold filled especially used material it needs to be incinerated first to remove any grease and dirt, after that you usually use nitric to remove as much base metal as possible but after that a further incineration and a Hcl wash will help remove any tin and more base metals, after that then go for whatever reactants you want to use as you are dealing with foils or powders which dissolve fairly readily.
You could strip the karat gold off but you will need cyanide not something I would advise unless you fully understand it’s dangers and how to use safely for you, your family, neighbours and the environment.


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## Rrosetl

Im new to pm long story short i put 500 grams of gold filled pocket watches in a beaker covered with water and adding 100ml of nitric acid at a time .reaction is good and i did it for about 2 hrs and decided to quit till the next day. I think a bunch of silver chloride formed at the bottom and some watch parts are cementing this chloride. My question is can i resume or is this cement going to cause a problem and if it does how do i fix that or proceed.


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## rickbb

I've only processed GF once, but my understanding is that using nitric will not create silver chloride, as dilute nitric will digest silver and hold it in solution.


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## FrugalRefiner

Rrosetl, do not double post. I deleted your other post since it was nearly identical to this one. 

I agree with rickbb. Since you did not mention adding any chloride, there should be no reason for silver chloride to have formed.

Dave


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## Rrosetl

Ok that kinda helps then what is the white powder at the bottom of the beaker and on some of the watch parts should i filter all white powder and hit it with hcl to see it disolves in that and keep filtering till it is gone or any suggestions would help thanks for answering post


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## snoman701

nonono

If you are using tap water, it COULD be AgCl if you are on city water. But AgCl does NOT dissolve in HCl to any appreciable degree, and adding HCl to your nitric is a bad idea as it's going to make the gold very difficult to recover. 

It could also be Ag that precipitated out, if you had insufficient nitric acid to digest all of the base metals.


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## Rrosetl

I am using distilled water i kept adding nitric acid between 50 and hundred ml at a time when it starting fissing at the top then thats when i would stop adding nitric and then i would let the fumes dissipate and add more. The reaction was working great.i just dont know if i should keep going or any recommendations moving forward the powder is not that bad and if its silver should that dissolve once i start the reaction again.


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## Lino1406

Try hot water it may be lead chloride


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## Palladium

Sn + HNO3 = SnO2 + NO2 + H2O 

SnO2 is Tin oxide and white.


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