# Incinerated ICs running on shaker table



## kjavanb123 (Jan 15, 2015)

All,

Steve from MBMMLLC just sent me a video, trying incinerated IC ash on their smaller shaker table, great recovery, I want to suggest to them to run equal amount of pulverized ICs atv smaller mesh size to compare with this result.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP2_l7SnyVo

Best regards,
Kj


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## necromancer (Jan 15, 2015)

another great video !! 
when are you getting your own shaker table ?


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 15, 2015)

Hi,

I have sent them another batch of pulverized boards to run on their smaller table which was features in this video, and once get the result analyzed, then make the decision and get their equipments.

Great shaker table and very progressive company they are.

Best regards
Kj


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## goldsilverpro (Jan 15, 2015)

Kevin,

I'm very interested in this project. I've often wanted to try specific gravity methods on various items but I never had the right equipment to play with. I really wanted to try auto catalysts after reading those patents back in the '70s and '80s. If you can fine tune this to the point of desired profit, it could be very, very good. It's a no hassle way to do it if you can burn it right and keep it legal. You might do some more experiments with the unburned boards. 

Weigh, weigh, weigh. Assay, assay, assay. Record everything.

- Do you have photos of the starting material? After incineration?

- Was that 20 pounds from your new Hammers or did you use a ball mill? Was the 20# the only fraction? If not, what do the other fractions look like and what are their weights?

If you do this right, I foresee lots of fire assays in your future. You could save much time and money by setting up to do your own fire assays. Best of all, you would have more control. For what you need, it would cost right at $5000. Extremely easy to learn (takes about 8 hours to learn enough to do it - 3 or 4 batches) with the right instruction. You also need your own table with all the bells and whistles. 

In many ways, a fire assay setup is the money-makingest thing a refinery can own. Were I to start another refinery (I've been thinking about it), it's the first thing I would buy. With it alone, a source of almost any type of material, and a calculator, you can make money. Add a gas crucible furnace and a small fume hood and you can make more.


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 15, 2015)

Chris,

Thanks for your support on this project. This 20lbs of incinerated ICs were not mine so I do not know the answers to your questions. But I am also interested in patents you read about catalytic converter PGM recovery using specific gravity. You can talk with Steve at MBMMLLC and arrange some tests according to those patents, they have a range of milling equipments as well.

I sent them a 6.660 kg of pulverized boards which I have taken a pictures and recorded everything to the teeth this time. Once it arrives there, he will run it on their 2x4 shaker table ( the one seen in this video) and dry the discharged concentrates, then record the weights and send them to the same lab we sent the first batch for analysis.

Based on the assay results and weight of each bag of last batch I prepared some files with all calculation for percentage of each metals that was discharged in each ports. Will be posted soon in my other thread.

If is possible can you point me to right direction to set up my fire assay lab? I have a small gas furnace and a medium size induction furnace, which I assume it is better to use induction to agitate the melt. 

I mostly do these stuff for the science of it plus I want to be able to feel the precious metals in my hands it is a very addictive thing. Hopefully these expeirments get me closer.

Regards
Kevin


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## bswartzwelder (Jan 16, 2015)

I'm just curious about the price of the shaker table. From what I've seen, it would appear to be several thousand dollars. I also wonder if there would be some easy and cheap way to build one on your own?

I have a blue bowl and a spiral wheel. Any idea as to whether they would be comparable?


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 16, 2015)

I got a price quota from MBMMLLC it is $5500 for their smaller shaker table as seen in the link above, and $11,900 for their larger shaker table seen in my first post. You can build one yourself, but I just dont it would be as accurate in separating as these guys equipments.

Blue bowl or spirals from my understanding are used to clean up the concentrates from shaker table.

Best regards,
Kevin


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## kurtak (Jan 18, 2015)

kjavanb123 said:


> Chris,
> 
> Thanks for your support on this project. This 20lbs of incinerated ICs were not mine so I do not know the answers to your questions.



Correct --- that was my material :mrgreen: 

As far as what the starting material was - it was these chips :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=20705#p212624 

I just received the concentrates back "late" on Friday - they were still wet when I received them so put them on the hot plate to dry yesterday

I am in the middle of a couple other projects right now (about 8 pounds silver & recovery of some PGMs) so it will be a few days before I get to working on these concentrates which in turn will take some time to process

when I get it done I will report the yield & the details of the process

Kurt


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 18, 2015)

Kurt,

Glad you gave shaker table a try. So are you going to prcoess the concentrates? My 14lbs of minus mesh 30 just arrived in the US, and should get to Steve shop soon, and hopefull try it with their 2x4 table.

Best regards,
Kevin


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## kurtak (Jan 18, 2015)

kjavanb123 said:


> Kurt,
> 
> Glad you gave shaker table a try. So are you going to prcoess the concentrates? My 14lbs of minus mesh 30 just arrived in the US, and should get to Steve shop soon, and hopefull try it with their 2x4 table.
> 
> ...



Kevin 

Yes I will be processing the concentrate --- but first I have to finish up a couple projects I have been working on while waiting for them to come back

One is a little over 8 pounds of silver which I just finished pouring my 4 two pound anode bars & am waiting for the silver on the hot plate to finish dissolving for making up my electrolyte - once I have the silver in the silver cell & running then I need to finish recovering some PGMs from some very dirty solutions & I also have some Pd that I dropped from some silver nitrate solutions that I need to reduce from the DMG/Pd precipitate to Pd metal which I think I am going to try doing a chemical (formic acid) reduction with instead of calcining 

So it will be a week or so before I get to working with the concentrates - when they are done I will be posting yield along with details of the processing including at least some pictures

Kurt


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## patnor1011 (Jan 18, 2015)

I would send them some material too but shipping is way too expensive to even consider doing something like that.


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## kurtak (Jan 19, 2015)

patnor1011 said:


> I would send them some material too but shipping is way too expensive to even consider doing something like that.



Pat 

I am not sure if "running material" for people is actually what they do --- what they do is sell the equipment (mining equipment)

The reason they ran Kevin's stuff & my stuff was that it was gold barring material out side the norm of actual mined material so they were glad to run our material (for free) as a one time deal for (1) to see if the equipment worked with this type material (2) shoot a video of running it - which then gets used as advertisement to show that "see it will work for this to" & (3) as a first time provider of a different type material a possible sale of equipment to a customer

I actually have one more type material I talked to them about running in one of their hammer mill's --- I just need to get it dug out of my pile as I had to move everything into my storage barn for the winter & the barrels of material are now buried at the very back of the pile & I have not had time to do the digging

Kurt

Edit to say; & yes I am interested in the equipment - its just a question of figuring how & when I can fit it into a budget as there will be other equipment that will need to go along with it


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## 72chevel (Jan 19, 2015)

Have you processed any of your material further that you sent them? What do you do with the concentrate? Incinerate?


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## kurtak (Jan 19, 2015)

72chevel said:


> Have you processed any of your material further that you sent them? What do you do with the concentrate? Incinerate?



I answered your questions in the first & second post I posted in this thread :!: :roll: 

Kurt


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## 72chevel (Jan 19, 2015)

I sent them a 6.660 kg of pulverized boards which I have taken a pictures and recorded everything to the teeth this time. Once it arrives there, he will run it on their 2x4 shaker table ( the one seen in this video) and dry the discharged concentrates, then record the weights and send them to the same lab we sent the first batch for analysis.

I appreciate your work and postings on this method. I was just wondering if you plan to sell the concentrate as is? or process it further, if you are processing it further just wondering what steps you would take next?

I think I got kjavanb123 and kurtak mixed up I was asking Kevin about his pulverized boards, which is actually in a different thread. Sorry about that.


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 19, 2015)

72chevel,

Thanks for your words. As of now I plan to remove tin, lead, and zinc using dilute hydrochloric acid, follow by rinses of hot water, then dissolve all the rest of base metals in dilute nitric acid, that should leave me with tantalum, gold, which can be dissolved in AR, drop the gold, and isolate the tantalum.

Nitric solution that contains palladium, silver, copper, I was thinking to use aluminum foils from aluminum capacitors to drop the copper from nitrate solution, precipitate silver as chloride, and palladium accordingly.

This new batch will give me some number as for the weight for each concentrates, and it will certainly uses a lot chemicals vs dissolving whole boards.

Regards
Kevin


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## dannlee (Jan 19, 2015)

> using dilute hydrochloric acid, follow by rinses of hot water, then.. . ..dilute nitric acid



using dilute hydrochloric acid, follow by *roasting*, rinses of hot water, then.. . ..dilute nitric acid


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 19, 2015)

Dannlee,

Thanks on that important note, roasting prior acid changes, more important when trying to get rid of nitric acid traces in materials, my impression was for hcl or sulfuric acid, couple of rinses with hot water would be sufficent.

Regards,
Kevin


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## kurtak (Jan 19, 2015)

kjavanb123 said:


> Dannlee,
> 
> Thanks on that important note, roasting prior acid changes, more important when trying to get rid of nitric acid traces in materials, my impression was for hcl or sulfuric acid, couple of rinses with hot water would be sufficent.
> 
> ...



You should roast/incinerate between acid changes regardless if its HCl to nitric or nitric to HCl to insure ridding traces of the first acid --- at least that is what I do & it is the way I understood Harold's advice 4 years ago when I first joined this forum - I have been doing it that way every since

Kurt


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 19, 2015)

Kurt,

Thanks for the advice. I just got words from my brother in the US who recieved the bag containing 6.620 kg of pulverized boards, so hopefully this week Steve can run it on their 2x4 shaker table, record the weight of dried discharged materials and send them to the lab. The new assay result can assure us about how effective their tables are and whether to smelt the concentrates and sell them or refine them in house.

Kevin


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## kurtak (Jan 20, 2015)

kjavanb123 said:


> 72chevel,
> 
> Thanks for your words. As of now I plan to remove tin, lead, and zinc using dilute hydrochloric acid, follow by rinses of hot water, then dissolve all the rest of base metals in dilute nitric acid, that should leave me with tantalum, gold, which can be dissolved in AR, drop the gold, and isolate the tantalum.
> 
> ...



Note the underlined in the above quote

You will "not" drop "anything" from a nitrate solution with aluminum --- Aluminum "does not" react with nitric - in fact it is a way of testing if a piece of scrap metal is aluminum or zinc

Zinc will react with both HCl & nitrict

aluminum will react with HCL but not nitric

so if you have a piece of metal & you are not sure if its aluminum or zinc use a drop of nitric - if it reacts it is zinc - if it does not react it is aluminum

Kurt


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 20, 2015)

Kurt,

I was reading adding some NaCl to copper nitrate and alumium foils in it would remove the oxide layer on Al foils, and it allow it to react and produce copper powder. Please advise as this is much faster than using iron scrap.

Regards,
Kevin


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## kurtak (Jan 20, 2015)

Kevin 

Use iron :!: - with a bubbler set up in it to circulate the solution in the tank - circulation will speed the cementing up & will prevent the copper from adhering to the iron & allow for more complete cementing - circulation is key to success when cementing large volumes of solution

Kurt


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## Beirdo (Jan 29, 2015)

Their videos are both eye opening... and strangely entertaining. Watching various items getting pulverized in their hammer mill made for a fun evening. Now what I'm wondering is what I'd do with all of the solder and copper parts that were in the low-grade concentrates. I know there are refiners out there for base metals, and separated like that, it might even be worth trying to send them some material to process, even if the return was minimal... Certainly better than the trash, at least.

Any plans what to do with the various stuff from the video with the circuit boards?


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 30, 2015)

Berido,

If you were asking me what I would do with discharged materials, here it is,

1- Metals and small amount of plastics and resins that made it to hole 1 of shaker table, I would remove iron, nickel and titanum from the dried materials using Nd magnets, then dissolve tin, lead, zinc and any other metals soluble in warm dilute hydrochloridric acid for 2 hrs.
Rinse and incinerate, then using electrolysis to plate tin, and lead is precipitate as white lead chloride as solution cools down.

2- Dissolve the metals in step 1, in hot dilute nitric acid, this would remove pretty much most of base metals, and gold, tantalum and some plastic resins remain. Rinse and incinerate this nitrate solution, drop silver as silver chloride, palladium and copper.

3- Dissolve the metals left from previous step, in AR, filter and drop the gold, and remain is going to be tantalum and some resins or ceramics etc, which can be separated using blue bowl to recover the tantalum which I think by then is going to be tantalium pentoxide.

I was thinking to use the similar procedures on all other materials discharged from shaker table holes, except the tailing which contains only trace amount of metals of my interest.

Also I will use 304 stainless steel vessels for all my nitric acid reaction, 316 stainless steel for hcl reaction and glass beaker for AR bath.


Regrads,
Kevin


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## ericrm (Jan 30, 2015)

kjavanb123 said:


> I was thinking to use the similar procedures on all other materials discharged from shaker table holes, except the tailing which contains only trace amount of metals of my interest.


is your tailing the number 4 hole or is there a fifth hole?


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 30, 2015)

Hi,

Tailing discharges at number 4 hole on shaker table.

Regards,
Kj


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## 4metals (Jan 30, 2015)

> 316 stainless steel for hcl reaction



This is a mistake, reducing acids do not have the oxidizing properties that stainless steel needs to maintain their passive surface corrosion layer. It will corrode. Try titanium.


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## Lou (Jan 30, 2015)

Neither titanium nor stainless are good for HCl work.

Glass, tantalum, polyolefins, fluorinated plastics.


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## ericrm (Jan 30, 2015)

kjavanb123 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Tailing discharges at number 4 hole on shaker table.
> 
> ...



ok... it seem that the shaker table does not work as good as i was hoping it to be. thanks


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 31, 2015)

Eric,

How did you reach that conclusion?

Regards
Kevin


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## ericrm (Jan 31, 2015)

im glad you ask, i have read your assay result and even if they dont say a lot about gold content they say a lot about what want wrong.
since number 4 is your discarded material it will have the most material by weight of your 4 hole ,roughtly 80% of you input weight. if you go by the math here it would mean that for each 2000lbs of pulverised board that goes tru you shaker table 1600 lbs will endup in hole 4. from your assay Au 1.6 oz/t	Ag 10.8oz/t	for each 2000lbs of board you will process 1.28oz of gold and 8.64oz will endup in hole 4.
the shaker did not separate the gold from garbage material at all. the reason why the hole 4 seem to have so little value is not because there is little gold in it but because the gold is diluted in a massive amount of garbage.

anyway your tread have been very helpfull maybe not for the reason i though in the beginning but still very usefull


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 31, 2015)

Eric,

I think there is a mishnderstanding here as far as the assay result goes. For port 4 assay says 1.6 toz per metric ton, so according to your calculation 2000lbs of tailing discharged from port 4 contains 1.6 toz, since 80% of feed in load with be 2000 x 80% or 1600 lbs of tailing would contain 1.6 toz x 1600 divided 2000 or 1.26 toz of gold in tailing which if you compare with gold content of other ports is trace amount.

Steve ran my second batch of 13lbs minus mesh 30 circuit boards and this time sent the entire discharged materials to american analytical services to be dried and weigh them, follow by sampling from each bag and run assays.

This time we keep track of all weights, in and discharged, so we can accurately find out the recovery rate of table and content of each metals in ppm for the boards.

I think gravity separation is a very good way to avoid smelting and incineration processes.

Regards
Kevin


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## alexxx (Jan 31, 2015)

kjavanb123 said:


> so according to your calculation 2000lbs of tailing discharged from port 4 contains 1.6 toz, since 80% of feed in load with be 2000 x 80% or 1600 lbs of tailing would contain 1.6 toz x 1600 divided 2000 or 1.26 toz of gold in tailing which if you compare with gold content of other ports is trace amount.



I was talking again with Steve about this issue last week, and we came to the conclusion that a 80%/85% recovery with this process is a huge step forward.
Sometimes, chasing a 98-99% is not worth it. Fantastic if you can achieve it, but it's not a deal breaker.
If you can recover 80% of your values fast, with very little cost, that means good money in your pockets very fast.
That also means the ability of buying, processing and running more material everyday as your cash flow allows you to flip your inventory and process more volume.

I would prefer personally to run 2 mt a day for a 80% recovery than 2 mt a week for 95% recovery...

We were also talking about the perspective of sending those tailings containing decent Pm traces to a refiner after the first recovery from the table.
You get 80% to 85% of the good stuff fast, than you send the garbage tailings to the refiners. You will lose a small % of the remaining 15-20% sent to the refiners and the payout will be delayed in time (120 days), but you will keep the top dollars in your hands. Just consider the tailings as gravy, These low grade tailings could be accumulated easily to reach a 20mt minimum and sent to a refiner for a 575 / 600$ processing fee per mt. 1.6 Toz per mt is way more than the minimal payable % on Au.

my2c

Alex


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 31, 2015)

Alex,

Excellect point on tailings. Never thought about that option, and they do get accumlated fast. I plan to process 1mt per day with this system.

Glad you and Steve are discussing this, he has been very helpful and interested in this project.

Regards,
Kevin


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## alexxx (Jan 31, 2015)

Kevin,

another important thing to remember if you plan on sending those tailings to a refiner is the following; this is your safety net if anything goes wrong...
We has refiners have learned not to throw anything away unless you are sure there's no more values to be extracted...
We keep stock pots, we save old filters and crucibles, etc...

Do you remember the first batch of AR you ever made ? Mine was a total disaster... Silver chloride was mixed with some remaining foils, metastannic acid was also there in large quantity, I used too much nitric, discarted filters full of values, added way too much smb into my copper saturated gold pregnant solution... A big mess...
Years later, after practice, experiments, mistakes, adjustments I'm getting better at it...

Like any other "new process" we try, it needs some tuning to optimize it. You need to know your tools, your material and gain some experience from various "bad runs"...
During this whole learning process, you need to cover your but. Sending those tailings, and even maybe the middlings to a refiner will be the safe way to go.
We've seen a whole bunch of things to be adjusted already like water pressure, table angle, slurry density... Maybe you will put a pre-wash module to create a more uniform slurry prior to running it into the table...

Keep up the good work !

Alex


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## Erceg (Apr 18, 2015)

kjavanb123 said:


> 72chevel,
> 
> Thanks for your words. As of now I plan to remove tin, lead, and zinc using dilute hydrochloric acid, follow by rinses of hot water, then dissolve all the rest of base metals in dilute nitric acid, that should leave me with tantalum, gold, which can be dissolved in AR, drop the gold, and isolate the tantalum.
> 
> Nitric solution that contains palladium, silver, copper,




I may be wrong but wouldn't HCl in first bath convert silver into silver chloride which is insoluble in HNO3 ?


(edit - grammar)


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## kurtak (Apr 19, 2015)

Erceg said:


> kjavanb123 said:
> 
> 
> > 72chevel,
> ...



No - HCl alone does not react with silver metal unless there is also an oxidizer added to the HCl such as AR - in which case the nitric in the AR reacts with the silver but then the HCl converts it to AgCl as fast as the nitric dissolves it

Same thing with copper - HCl alone does not react (dissolve) copper - it needs an oxidizer - which is why hydrogen peroxide along with a bubbler is added to HCl to make AP work to dissolve copper &/or brass to relieve the foils from pins & fingers

On the other hand aluminum does not react with nitric even though it is a more reactive metal then silver or copper - but aluminum is very reactive to HCl - which is why aluminum can not be used to cement lower reactive metals (silver or copper) from a nitrate solution

Kurt


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## Grelko (Oct 8, 2015)

kurtak said:


> HCl alone does not react with silver metal unless there is also an oxidizer added to the HCl such as AR
> 
> HCl alone does not react (dissolve) copper - it needs an oxidizer - which is why hydrogen peroxide along with a bubbler is added to HCl to make AP work
> Kurt



Doesn't this mean that HCL+H2O2 can dissolve silver also? If so, it would most likely be dependent on the % of H2O2. 

I believe this works with HCL/CL, it would explain why you need the ammonia rinse, depending on the materials processed.


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## Geo (Oct 8, 2015)

HCl does react to silver but because silver chloride is insoluble, only the first couple of atoms deep are effected. Once these first few atoms are converted to silver chloride, it prevent any further attack on the silver by the HCl. Any other oxidizer besides nitric acid have no effect on solid silver. When the silver is finely divided, as in cemented silver, a couple of atoms deep may be half the thickness of the particles and you can get a decent amount of silver chloride with just HCl and bleach even though I don't think the bleach has much to do with it.


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## Grelko (Oct 9, 2015)

Geo said:


> HCl does react to silver but because silver chloride is insoluble, only the first couple of atoms deep are effected. Once these first few atoms are converted to silver chloride, it prevent any further attack on the silver by the HCl. Any other oxidizer besides nitric acid have no effect on solid silver. When the silver is finely divided, as in cemented silver, a couple of atoms deep may be half the thickness of the particles and you can get a decent amount of silver chloride with just HCl and bleach even though I don't think the bleach has much to do with it.



Thanks for explaining that, I have some silver plated brass and copper items, but I'm still not ready to make a cell for them. I might try HCL on a couple pieces, or small bus bars and see what happens.

What If you added a bubbler, or vibrations "sonication" to the HCL+H2O2, or HCL/CL solution, wouldn't that slowly break off the oxidized layer on the silver and slowly convert the layers beneath it?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_chloride ( Upon illumination or heating, silver chloride converts to silver "and chlorine")

I'm constantly thinking about many things at once. :lol: This could make for a fun experiment. Take a flask etc, with HCL/CL or HCL/H2O2, a bubbler, and something silver or silver plated. Heat the solution, or flash a strobe light through it "like taking pictures", which should convert the silver chloride back to silver and chlorine as it's being made by the HCL, then the bubbler should shake off the layer of silver as it's being converted back. You might only need HCL instead of H2O2 or CL. Instead of using a bubbler, you could use sonication "electric toothbrush?"

Then again, if the silver, being converted to silver chloride, and back to silver, would instead re-attach itself to the solid piece of silver, by using the strobe light, then you could technically "cold fusion" silver to another piece of silver. :shock: 

Also, according to butcher's post that dealt with kovar, and re-using iron solution instead of disposing of it, ferric chloride should work with silver also, but that may only be for plated items. http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=19838


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## Geo (Oct 9, 2015)

I have successfully used AP to remove silver plate from heavily plated military pins. It does not come off in foils like gold foils but rather breaks up into fine particles like silver glitter.


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## Grelko (Oct 9, 2015)

Geo said:


> I have successfully used AP to remove silver plate from heavily plated military pins. It does not come off in foils like gold foils but rather breaks up into fine particles like silver glitter.



Was there anything special that you did first? Pre-treat with another acid, boil the AP, or even scratch it first, so the AP could attack the material underneath the plating which would release it?

I was thinking about using sandpaper on a plate or spoon, collecting all the particles from it and putting that into AP so the BMs would dissolve, leaving the silver. The reason I decided against it for now, is that I'm not sure how to get the sand out afterwards. "Unless that particular sandpaper is made from aluminum oxide"


Sorry for taking the original discussion way off subject. I was going to ask if anyone happened to have instructions on how to make a small shaker table, to process a couple pounds at a time because, I don't have much space, but I got side-tracked.


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## johnny309 (Oct 9, 2015)

Geo said:


> I have successfully used AP to remove silver plate from heavily plated military pins. It does not come off in foils like gold foils but rather breaks up into fine particles like silver glitter.




Test this material for Rh.....


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## Geo (Oct 9, 2015)

Grelko said:


> Sorry for taking the original discussion way off subject. I was going to ask if anyone happened to have instructions on how to make a small shaker table, to process a couple pounds at a time because, I don't have much space, but I got side-tracked.



Have you tried just panning it with a gold pan? I have had great success panning pyrolyzed IC's.



johnny309 said:


> Test this material for Rh.....



These are military grade pins from cable ends. They didn't gold plate them for some reason but they are heavy silver plated. The pins are not shiny going in and show the age of tarnished silver. I just can't see them using an expensive metal like Rh when silver would do the job but just to be sure, the next batch I do, I will test. I have about four pounds now ready to go.


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## Grelko (Oct 9, 2015)

Geo said:


> Have you tried just panning it with a gold pan? I have had great success panning pyrolyzed IC's.



I don't have a blue bowl yet, but found a different bowl that worked. I actually just tried a small batch a few days ago. The thing about that was, that I didn't get the fire hot enough and still had the smell of plastic, but no black smoke. (Charcoal and a heat gun to force air). It was 200g of mixed chips, and only 1/4 of them turned white. I got a little powder and some wires out of it, but my neighbors live about 15 feet away and I didn't want to chance getting them sick from it. 

If I had a small shaker table, I could run IC chips no problem, since alot of people near me work on their cars, houses, and there's a trucking station right up the street, so the table noise shouldn't bother them. Plus the shaker table would be good for circuit boards, once I get around to making a mill to grind them into powder.

If I could get the fire hot enough, it would stop the smell of plastic and I would be able to process chips that way also. I was just testing how the it worked.


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## patnor1011 (Oct 9, 2015)

Mortar and pestle should work too. I actually started with them, I moved to incineration as that is easier for me. Get a steel pipe, thread a cap on bottom and use steel or iron rod as pestle.


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## Grelko (Oct 10, 2015)

patnor1011 said:


> Mortar and pestle should work too. I actually started with them, I moved to incineration as that is easier for me. Get a steel pipe, thread a cap on bottom and use steel or iron rod as pestle.



I was using a small stainless steel bowl and the back end of a floor scraper, as a makeshift mortar/pestle to finish grinding up the small amount of black sand. Then, I panned it out with a black, plastic, chinese fastfood dish from downtown :lol: . That actually worked alot better than I thought it would. I saved all the rinse water and filtered it before disposing, to make sure I got all the wires. 

Thanks for the idea about the capped pipe, I'll have to try that. Once I get some type of incinerator, to stop the burning smell "hopefully soon", I'd use that since I still have around 10 pounds of mixed chips, plus BGAs, ram etc, and more waiting to be pulled off boards.

I pick up scrap metal also, so I probably have the pipe/cap, and steel rod around here somewhere to crush the chips, then I can use my ceramic mortar/pestle to grind some of it to powder while panning. Would take longer, but it still gets the job done.

Do you think that you lost any wires while crushing them in the pipe? I figure there would be some dust or pieces flying around.


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## patnor1011 (Oct 10, 2015)

No, it is long enough so no wire will get out. I use it to break them in smaller pieces, not to grind them in powder. That I do in smaller mortar, problem with this big one is that if you want powder you end up smearing gold wires on other metallic pins and heat spreaders in the mix. Always grind a bit and try to remove as much metal as you can, sieve grind-ed powder out then repeat.


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## Grelko (Oct 10, 2015)

patnor1011 said:


> No, it is long enough so no wire will get out. I use it to break them in smaller pieces, not to grind them in powder. That I do in smaller mortar, problem with this big one is that if you want powder you end up smearing gold wires on other metallic pins and heat spreaders in the mix. Always grind a bit and try to remove as much metal as you can, sieve grind-ed powder out then repeat.



That's what I was going to do with the ceramic mortar "or stainless bowl" after crushing and sieving them. 

How long is the pipe? I'm thinking around 2 feet should be enough?

By the way, I'm glad you showed up here. I was just re-reading your PDF on processing chips earlier. I knew that picture looked familiar. Thanks for making it, it helps alot. Now, if I could just figure out what to do with the rest of the PMs in the chips, without having any nitric avaliable.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Oct 10, 2015)

Grelko said:


> patnor1011 said:
> 
> 
> > No, it is long enough so no wire will get out. I use it to break them in smaller pieces, not to grind them in powder. That I do in smaller mortar, problem with this big one is that if you want powder you end up smearing gold wires on other metallic pins and heat spreaders in the mix. Always grind a bit and try to remove as much metal as you can, sieve grind-ed powder out then repeat.
> ...




Make your own nitric.


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## JHS (Oct 10, 2015)

Sorry for taking the original discussion way off subject. I was going to ask if anyone happened to have instructions on how to make a small shaker table, to process a couple pounds at a time because, I don't have much space, but I got side-tracked.[/quote]

I have collected all the materials to make a shaker table.When I have completed a few other obligation's I will post the process of the build along with explanation,steps, and pictures.
john
P.S.I like building things,even if I have no use for them.


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## Grelko (Oct 11, 2015)

Barren Realms 007 said:


> Make your own nitric.



Once I can do it safely, I was going to make some, or just buy some online. I don't have the room right now and my neighbors live too close, so I don't want to chance sending a red cloud their way. I can always ship the leftover material to be refined, or hang onto it until I get a scrubber/fume hood.



JHS said:


> I have collected all the materials to make a shaker table.When I have completed a few other obligation's I will post the process of the build along with explanation,steps, and pictures.
> john
> P.S.I like building things,even if I have no use for them.



That'll be great once you're finished with it. I saw a couple videos about them, but those were all larger ones.


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