# catalytic converter catalogue....pgm Content given



## pgm (Jan 14, 2011)

Hi 

i have found this link and will be doing a test very soon on the cat's in the catalogue....i will update you with my findings....my test should tell me if the catalgue is any good.

the catalogue gives picture and % of Pt, Pd and Rh in each catalogue if you need more please pm i will send you another catalogue which i have too same thing but different cat's...but that one is 9.2mb i think and will have to e-mail it to you.....

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24745162/Catalogue-PGM-CONTENT-1-of-Catalytic-Converters

people all i am going to say is dont listen to others who put you off.......do it yourself, people on this forum will help you....use the search function ask when you get stuck and please put up pictures....a picture speaks volumes....never give up...take a rest and start again....i did all the above and now with the help of the people on this forum i am doing really good....thankyou all


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## patnor1011 (Jan 17, 2011)

I can put it on hotfile for download


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## Palladium (Jan 17, 2011)

That's one of the files i pulled from the forum. As with all data i don't know how much of it is correct you will have to verify what is and isn't.


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## solarsmith (Jan 21, 2011)

pgm said:


> Hi
> 
> i have found this link and will be doing a test very soon on the cat's in the catalogue....i will update you with my findings....my test should tell me if the catalgue is any good.
> 
> ...


thanks for the link.... Im trying to figure out the math on the pt content.
I keep coming up with way to much pt per converter... can you help. thanks BRYAN I I BUY CATS IN COLORADO


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## kjavanb123 (Jan 22, 2011)

pgm,

Thanks for the link, I was wondering if this is only the amt of Pt, Rh or Pd each cat has, then what is the economy in purchasing and refining? I heard from the forum the PGM content per cat is usually 1 to 7grams in models. 

Thanks
Kev


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## skippy (Jan 22, 2011)

I think that the catalog gives a reasonably accurate picture. Very few cats have seven grams of PGMs in them. Maybe an 'exotic' like a really loaded BMW or Mercedes, or a cat with a heavy loading of palladium The vast majority of non precats are in the two to four gram range. The economy or profit? Find people who will sell them cheap, although that is getting less likely, or deal with large quantities. I think the business is getting very competitive, we even have a buyer here on the forum, Edigold, who will assay your catalyst and evidently pay 80% Pt,Pd and 75% Rh. I think it would be hard to compete with these numbers refining on your own.


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## rusty (Jan 22, 2011)

I would be wary thinking that you would get a return of 7 grams from a BMW, when statistics show that on average the precious metals recovers are around 30% end of life

Age of the vehicle, driving conditions, vehicle maintenance will all have their toll on the cats life span and how much of the precious metals remain inside the unit when recycled.

I suspect that the numbers in the catalogue are for virgin cats, there ain't a hope in hell those numbers would be for a cat with a million miles of city driving behind it.

The attached document show cat comb under an electron microscope.


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## Oz (Jan 22, 2011)

Nice article Rusty, thanks.


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## skippy (Jan 22, 2011)

Gill, some cool pics in that doc. I know folks have talked about grinding the combs, and I think the pics in that document illustrates how finely the cat would have to be ground to develop additional surface area in the wash coat. Given the little 100um scale bar I think you would have to grind to well below 250 mesh to get much additional surface area.

Do you know where you saw that 30% figure? I'd certainely like to read that . I had always thought most of it was still there. I've read the alumina can glaze up, the metals can agglomerate into and become encapsulated in insoluble rhodium oxide. I could see an old catalyst might only leach at 30% of the new ones content, but I would bet that most of it would still be there if you applied enough plasma or hot fluorspar to the material.


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## rusty (Jan 22, 2011)

skippy said:


> Gill, some cool pics in that doc. I know folks have talked about grinding the combs, and I think the pics in that document illustrates how finely the cat would have to be ground to develop additional surface area in the wash coat. Given the little 100um scale bar I think you would have to grind to well below 250 mesh to get much additional surface area.
> 
> Do you know where you saw that 30% figure? I'd certainely like to read that . I had always thought most of it was still there. I've read the alumina can glaze up, the metals can agglomerate into and become encapsulated in insoluble rhodium oxide. I could see an old catalyst might only leach at 30% of the new ones content, but I would bet that most of it would still be there if you applied enough plasma or hot fluorspar to the material.




Unfortunately some authors are storing documents as jpg files, google does not have the capability to search content within a jpg. 

Djvu has this ability but as of yet no free search engine.
http://djvu.org/links/

The information you seek is in the attached file, a screen shot. Sorry I did not keep the whole article.


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## lazersteve (Jan 22, 2011)

If the quote Gill is from the document I think it is, then you can find the pdf in one of my early posts on the subject or in the documents section of my website. If it's not in either of these two locations, I'll have to dig it out of my archives.

Steve.


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## skippy (Jan 22, 2011)

I knew it was something I had seen recently, I'd forgotten that you had posted that. Thanks Gill.

I like to take a lot of what I read about cats with a big ol grain of salt. Even what appears in sci. journals.
I know if the average scrapped cat lost 70% of its metals to the environment over the life of the cat then pro buyers just 
wouldn't be able to pay what they do pay here.


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## rusty (Jan 22, 2011)

After you actually open up a dozen or more cats your brain is going to buzz.

I've opened up cats that I had stuck a stick inside from each end to show if the biscuit was complete. All indications from my primary check showed the comb to be complete yet when the can was cut open one of the biscuits were nearly burn away from the inside.

One reason I would never buy a cat from ebay, even if the ends have been cut away on the catalytic canister showing the ends of the comb. I've open beaded cats to only find a half dozen beads left inside.

Not meaning to insult forum members that purchase cats, from my observations buyers will pay a high dollar for some cats, this works to keep guys like us from buying from auto wreckers. Truth is after one or two cats sold at premium the rest went on the cheap with some next to nothing.

The pay for next to nothing cats would have been damaged by the fork lift while moving the car about, buyer inserts stick and comes up short, pays low. When he opens that canister the bits of comb that were crushed from the forklift will more than likely still be inside the canister rattling around so nothing is really lost.

To get a feel for buying you have to anti up and get into the real world.

In the past year I have accumulated two 45 gallon drums of comb which is waiting for the ball mill, six 20 litre pails full of milled cat comb plus 14 cats waiting to be opened and weighed up. 

I have developed a formula for buying that has proved itself valuable to both the seller and me the buyer, it has worked out so well that I now have 3 business that sold to commercial buyers now selling to me.

If you had a 45 gallon drum of loose comb, after milling that comb would fill that drum 1/4 full. I have not kept track of how many cats it takes to fill the drum with loose comb.

One twenty litre pail of milled cat comb weighs around 70 lbs.

Because of the strain this has put on me financially with the amount of unprocessed inventory I have on hand, could change the future temperately for me with the commercial buyers regaining that ground they lost to me during 2010.

You need to be able to process very quickly, have deep pockets with a good cash flow to keep disruptions from killing your business or loosing clientele to other buyers.

Regards
G


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## solarsmith (Jan 22, 2011)

rusty said:


> After you actually open up a dozen or more cats your brain is going to buzz.
> 
> I've opened up cats that I had stuck a stick inside from each end to show if the biscuit was complete. All indications from my primary check showed the comb to be complete yet when the can was cut open one of the biscuits were nearly burn away from the inside.
> 
> ...


I can tell ya that a one galon paint can will hold 11 lbs of crushed sifted catalytic comb. I am looking for a buyer of cat comb that will buy in about 100 lb batches the lowest I can find now is 250 lbs...
I do have a buyer of my foil cats that pay 2x what most others do.
from what I can tell the big buyers are running at about a 50% profit.

thanks BRYAN in colorado I buy catalytic converters and pay cash.


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## rusty (Jan 22, 2011)

solarsmith said:


> I can tell ya that a one galon paint can will hold 11 lbs of crushed sifted catalytic comb. I am looking for a buyer of cat comb that will buy in about 100 lb batches the lowest I can find now is 250 lbs...
> I do have a buyer of my foil cats that pay 2x what most others do.
> from what I can tell the big buyers are running at about a 50% profit.
> 
> thanks BRYAN in colorado I buy catalytic converters and pay cash.



Yes I agree 50% if your paying an man to be on the road, with meals, rooms and fuel, buyers doing smaller circuits with less overhead could be pulling in as much as 75%.

Your gallon paint can, would this by chance be something like 3.75 litres, our Canadian gallon 160 fluid ounces US 128 fluid, whiskey in Canada rated on 100 proof scale while the US use a 200 proof scale.

How much a pound you looking at for loose comb, Bryan, can you ship via Greyhound who accept heavier parcels and more economical the UPS.

Regards
Gill


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## solarsmith (Jan 23, 2011)

I can ship for about 50 cents a lb and 3.75 a us gallon sounds about right
I could sell comb based on a 3rd party assay. 85% of the pgms market price .. plenty of room for adjustment to this.. thanks Bryan in denver
colorado I buy scrap cats 303 503 4799


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## Balance (Mar 7, 2011)

Can you pleaseemail the rest of the PGM contentent catalog, I am extremely interested in refining catalytic converters, and I am trying to collect any and all information that I possibably can.

Thank You
Mike
Balance Recycling
[email protected]


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## Palladium (Mar 7, 2011)

If you will look in my sig line below you will find a link that says chemistry handbooks. Look through the books i have there and it has some to do with what your searching for. Welcome to the forum.


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## lazersteve (Mar 7, 2011)

Balance said:


> Can you pleaseemail the rest of the PGM contentent catalog, I am extremely interested in refining catalytic converters, and I am trying to collect any and all information that I possibably can.
> 
> Thank You
> Mike
> ...



Mike,

Do you already have a copy of my Fundamentals of Pt and Pd DVD? 

It demonstrates cat refining from harvesting to melting the resulting Pt button and all steps in between.


You can buy it here:

http://goldrecovery.us/pricing.asp


Steve


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## Balance (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi Steve, no I dont, but I'm going to.
Thank you


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## bubba (Apr 19, 2011)

good god, where do I start. first off whoever made that "catalog" must have been drinking Jack Daniels, and throwing darts at a chart.
80% plus of all cats contain at least some palladium, that includes the ones on his "catalog". I don't see alot of palladium readings. The fords and chryslers, especially were short, very short on Pd.
Almost all of his "assay" amounts were very, very high. I have seen this type of info before. All of the ones I have seen, have been in this format, and are very over valued.
The Double GM in the picture has over $200.00 in Pt. alone? not a chance in hell. And no Pd. values mentioned? should be 700 ppm.

And Rusty, the only people in this business making 50% plus margins, are the scrappers driving around picking up maybe 10 units a week along with their other scrap. If you want to buy any volume, you better figure out how to work on 5-10%. Also, converter life has little to do with contained ounces, we have assayed brand new units and identical units with 100,000 plus miles, and the maximum variation was maybe 10%.


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## skippy (Apr 20, 2011)

I actually read a paper which claimed Platinum content *increases* over the aging of the catalyst, the paper suggested it might be from the fuel, which I don't really believe.


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## tareq khaled khaled (May 27, 2013)

You can use the knowledge pgm


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## tareq khaled khaled (May 27, 2013)

View attachment catalytic.xls


tareq khaled khaled said:


> You can use the knowledge pgm


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