# Jewelry Question



## JustinNH (Mar 26, 2008)

Hey everyone,

I decided to check out the local thrift shop to see what they had for jewelry. I picked up a few good marked things (gold and silver) for very cheap but there were also a good deal of un-marked ones sitting there under the glass.

Anyways, some of them looked like gold but either seemed too yellow to be jewelry gold (i.e. even more so than pure gold seems to look) or too much of a copper tone and I wasnt sure about them. 

While I do not know much about jewely or different possible alloys, I do know that there are differnet types (GF, GP, 10-24K, etc) as well as Gold-toned jewelry ... 
(here comes the questions  )

The pieces were relatively heavy... is there a gold and lead alloy for cheap jewelry that would make it look wierd? One of the pieces was broken and it was the same color on the inside so I know it wasnt plated lead (or rather I 'think' not know haha)

What exactly is gold-tone and what metals are used to create it?

Thanks!

I am sorry if these were already answered. I looked over anything that looked similar to my questions and could not find these...


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## Anonymous (Mar 26, 2008)

Being yellow on the insde is most likely gold plated brass. Some gold plating is 24k some lesser so the color can vary. I also some fashion jewerly that is what I guess to be brass because it looked gold but had a plastic coating to keep the brass from discoloring.


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## Harold_V (Mar 26, 2008)

Sigh! :? 

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, do you have Hoke's book?

If not, why not?

If you have it, have you read it? Do you understand what it tells you?

The answers to your questions will be found in the book, along with good and proper methods to test jewelry so you aren't running blind.

Harold


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## JustinNH (Mar 26, 2008)

Thanks James and Harold.

No, I havent bought the book yet, although I know, its a must have as ive seen posted multiple times 

I was thinking about buying it this weekend and seing where it is cheapest as it is a little pricey (and yes, I know and am sure it is worth it)

But I was just curious about the jewelry now because I actually get out of work at a reasonable time this week as opposed to when all the stores are closed like normal :?


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## Harold_V (Mar 27, 2008)

JustinNH said:


> But I was just curious about the jewelry now because I actually get out of work at a reasonable time this week as opposed to when all the stores are closed like normal :?



OK----lets look at the jewelry right now. Do you have nitric acid? You need only a little----a half ounce would be plenty. You should have it in a small acid bottle with a dauber, so you can apply it a drop at a time. You can buy such a bottle from a jewelry supply house. Wear rubber gloves. Nitric acid raises hell with skin, killing it and turning it yellow. 

When you have a question about the content of an item you suspect is gold, nitric acid can be very telling. If it's 10K, a drop of acid placed on it will turn the object a brown color, fairly quickly, and the acid will turn greenish. That's the copper and silver being dissolved (assuming yellow gold) from the alloy, leaving behind the gold, which is the brown color you see. White 10K would behave much the same way, although there is nickel in white, not copper and silver. 

If you apply the same test to 14K, it is reluctant to change much, but will darken every so slightly after a little time. Anything higher than 14K is unlikely to change. Base metals react instantly, with the nitric drop turning a blue/green, and brown fumes coming from the reaction. 

If you have a question about an object being solid gold, or gold filled/plated, file a notch with the edge of a file, then apply nitric to the notch. If it's base metal, you'll get an immediate reaction---slight fuming and a color shift, blue/green, the acid dissolving the base metal. If you get the same reaction that you did from known karat gold, with no blue/green color, the object is likely solid (alloyed) gold. Asssuming the object is gold filled, it is generally marked as such, but if you find a piece that is gold filled and is not marked, once acid has been applied to the notch, you should be able to distinguish the gold alloy layer from the base metal, even when they are similar in color. That's fairly common with gold filled objects, so when the gold has worn though, it still looks acceptable. 

When you file a notch, it should be fairly deep, to insure that you penetrate a section of a formed object that could have a thicker than normal covering of gold, assuming it's gold filled. Plated material will often test right through the plating, depending on the thickness of the plating, or the condition of the remaining gold. 

There's a lot more to testing than I've covered here, but you'll learn a great deal from Hoke's book, plus you should acquire some gold filled and karat gold objects and test them until you're familiar with the reactions. 

I strongly suggest you get involved in testing as quickly as is possible. If you intend to buy gold from the market, you should also go to a jewelry supply house and purchase a set of test needles and a touch stone. They come in a kit, along with acid bottles, which will have instructions on preparing the proper testing solutions. It can keep you out of trouble, insuring you don't overpay for alloyed gold.

If you're interested in silver, you should also have some Schwerter's solution, which instantly identifies silver. I recommend it as a part of your testing kit. 

Harold


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## JustinNH (Mar 27, 2008)

Thank you. I decided to pick up the pieces in question to eventually test them as you described. Figured for the price they were it could't hurt to learn. I will be buying the book this weekend which I am sure will help out as well. Thanks again!


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## Anonymous (Mar 27, 2008)

Justin I heard they used to get a lot of gold out of NH


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## JustinNH (Mar 27, 2008)

Yeah, there were some old mines from the 1800s that they took out a good deal of gold from and they think there is more. No one is sure on if the gold is in the rocks or is from the glaciers... or both. Funny how they think that and not think about the old mines which must mean its both. I think one was called Dodge mine in which they took out a lot before it closed.

I heard there is gold in every river in NH (and most of VT and Maine for that matter) you just have to work hard to get to it. I think Im happy sticking to places I know there is gold! haha While most is fine (there are some ok pickers as in my avatar which are around 1/5 or 1/6 of an inch but are flat) it is prettyclose to pure for placer gold. 

I have heard of a few people getting small platinum flakes too. Im sure there are a few more that people just end up tossing back thinking they are just part of the black sands. After reading some of the topics I think I may start saving the cons after i take out the visible gold. Guess there may be some hidden gold- just have to watch out for arsenic, etc in the mix from what i gather...

Ah, now I really want to go panning! :wink: 
Cant wait to get my dredge!


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## calgoldrecyclers (Mar 31, 2008)

Justin,
i am guessing you were wanting to know how can you tell what is gold, gold plate, gold filled, etc. on the spot. the liklihood of someone in a thrift store letting you daub nitric on an item, is probably not going to happen. nor would you want to carry nitric in your pocket for just such an activity. the best method i have come up with myself in such cases is by feel and by look. gold is shiny in shade as well as sun. polished brass, not so. gold is heavier than everything else, by far. excepting of course, platinum, which by all means, shouldnt resemble gold. practice, practice, practice. 
go out to jewelry stores and familiarize yourself with what gold looks like. occaisionally, you will come across gold items that arent stamped, not very often, but occaisionally. it is best not to rely on a stamp, anyway. rely on your gut, after all you are the one paying for it. the best method is by experience. it wont cost a thing to familiarize yourself with gold on all senses. ( some can smell it!) 
the last time i saw a copy of hokes book, they wanted two hundred and seventy five. 
thats a lot of clams to fork over for printed matter. 
steve seems to know what he is talking about, i would say you should invest in his visual aids. it is much easier learning by visual than by reading. 
i dont know if hokes book has been updated at all lately, but to my knowledge, the printing date is 1940. alot of info can and has been updated in the last 65 years. 
it was much easier, not to mention cheaper to buy supplies in 1940 than it is now.
happy hunting to all


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## Harold_V (Mar 31, 2008)

calgoldrecyclers said:


> the best method i have come up with myself in such cases is by feel and by look. gold is shiny in shade as well as sun. polished brass, not so.


That is not reliable in the least, especially for a person that has no experience in working and/or testing gold, although a person with considerable experience may be able to identify brass or bronze. There are too many types of gold and copper alloys to make visual testing reliable, particularly if you encounter such alloys from industry. That is not good advice.



> practice, practice, practice.


Practice what? With what guidelines?



> it wont cost a thing to familiarize yourself with gold on all senses. ( some can smell it!)


The cost is in the mistakes made by ignorance. To suggest that a person practice that with which he has no knowledge makes no sense. Certainly no more sense than a person that can smell gold. That I'd have to see to believe. 

We are men of science, and rely on scientific methods, not witchcraft. 



> the last time i saw a copy of hokes book, they wanted two hundred and seventy five.
> thats a lot of clams to fork over for printed matter.


Do you understand refining techniques, or are you simply a gold merchant? Those that desire to learn refining must have that "printed matter" if they intend to succeed. Where else will they gain the needed knowledge?

The book is readily available for less than $75. There is no other source on the market that will teach the basics for that price, nor that well. 

I find it strange that you're so tight with money that is in another's pocket, when they risk losing far more than the value of the book that can teach them the things they must know in order to avoid buying valueless material. 



> i dont know if hokes book has been updated at all lately, but to my knowledge, the printing date is 1940. alot of info can and has been updated in the last 65 years.


Are you suggesting that gold and silver have changed in the past 65 years? The procedures outlined in Hoke's book work, and work perfectly well. The home refiner isn't likely to progress beyond the basics of refining, if for no other reason, there isn't need. The instructions provided by Hoke in her book are perfectly suited to a person trying to learn, and will likely become the method of operation even after greater knowledge comes available. That was certainly true in my case, and I refined for more than 20 years, thousands of ounces. The quality of the end product from Hoke's procedures rivals that of industry, and it is accomplished without a huge expenditure. You, sir, are providing a terrible disservice to people with your poorly directed comments. 



> it was much easier, not to mention cheaper to buy supplies in 1940 than it is now.
> happy hunting to all


Gold was also $35/ounce. Time has changed only the numbers. The chemistry of gold, as far as the home refiner is concerned, remains unchanged. None of your comments make sense. 

I have no disagreement with your advice to practice testing and other procedures, but a person with no clue has nothing to practice. Unless you're willing to spend time with each individual, teaching him/her the things they need to know about testing and refining so they can, indeed, practice, I think you should not be discouraging them from buying the one book that can take the place of a live tutor. There are no others that will carry the beginning refiner through the essentials in the way Hoke does. 

Readers will be well served to ignore your comments. 

Harold


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## calgoldrecyclers (Mar 31, 2008)

Harold,
after reading your post, i am inclined to think you should follow your own quotation: "fools (sic) like yourself, always have to say something".
right?
you are always quick to tell everyone to buy hokes book. 
why dont you try helping. if you have nothing to say on the matter, other than to buy hokes book, why bother?
you are not unlike an idiot savant. ( you have your moments- albeit, few and far far in between)
for the record, i am CERTAINLY CONCERNED about everyone elses pockets, because i dont like spending more than i absolutely need to. 
the advice you do give, is cryptically vague, at best. what gives?
are you trying to be difficult?
are you trying to be educated? ( t'aint werkin')


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## JustinNH (Mar 31, 2008)

Hey all,

Thanks again for all the replies- but Imnot trying to start an arguement here... just trying to figure out what Gold toned is 

Im not that new at it that I dont know the difference between bronze and brass vs. gold. But as Harold said, there are so many alloys that It is hard to tell from looking at them. I did buy all the stuff the thrift store had, since it was so cheap (you can even get a good suit there for 10 dollars haha) with the hopes of testing it to learn what looks like what. 

From looking through it closer at home I see there is 1 thing marked 14k gold filled, 1 thing (i ithink its just) gold plated with lead under it, another peice that looks to be gold over brass or somethign similar to match the gold thats plated on (i imagine so that if the gold wares off it still looks similar to gold if polished...)., There are a few more peices that either I just couldnt tell if it was plated or filled or if its not gold at all. It doesnt look (or smell) like brass, copper, bronze, or really even gold. This is where the testing will pay off so I can learn.

There were a few thigns I eliminated on the spot by smelling them too. Yeah, i looked wierd until I explained why someone like me was being picky witht he jewelry and even smelling it! :lol:


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## Harold_V (Apr 1, 2008)

calgoldrecyclers said:


> Harold,
> after reading your post, i am inclined to think you should follow your own quotation: "fools (sic) like yourself, always have to say something".
> right?


Show me your goods, pard. I've experienced more than my share of people the likes of you, much like a nest of baby birds. To a man, they think they're clever------and typically don't know a pizza from a fish hook. 



> you are always quick to tell everyone to buy hokes book.
> why dont you try helping. if you have nothing to say on the matter, other than to buy hokes book, why bother?


It's simple. I can't spend enough time on this forum to hold the hands of each and every person----you included. Hoke's book teaches the fundamentals, which appear to have escaped you totally. So far you've shown me the only thing you know how to do is run your mouth---although I admit, you do it well. 

If you can't understand the value of buying a book that teaches a novice the basics of not only refining, but testing, along with chemical terminology, and the proper and safe handling of acids, plus which ones to use for each particular occasion, then I'm sorry for you. You are the loser-----and I suggest you not try to rub the loser off on others. They have a difficult enough task without being mislead.



> you are not unlike an idiot savant. ( you have your moments- albeit, few and far far in between)


You wouldn't know a brilliant moment if it jumped up and hit you in the butt, so you are clearly not quailified to judge my comments, therefore your statement isn't valid. Nice shot, though----one that may well get you dismissed from the board if such things continue. 

Aside from your snide remarks, what are your contributions to this forum?Thus far, it appears that we would better off without your presence. 



> for the record, i am CERTAINLY CONCERNED about everyone elses pockets, because i dont like spending more than i absolutely need to.


You've failed miserably. You, much more so than other, need help desperately. You appear to know nothing, and would benefit more than most by buying Hoke's book. I recommend you do so. 



> e advice you do give, is cryptically vague, at best. what gives?
> are you trying to be difficult?


Only because you can't read and understand plain English is my advice cryptical. It is far from vague. I have, and do, offer detailed information. It appears you simply can't read and understand what you see. If you consider my dedicating hours each day to helping others as being difficult, then, yes, I'm trying to be difficult. 



> are you trying to be educated? ( t'aint werkin')


Not quite sure where you're headed with that one, but one thing is for sure, and that is that you, sir, are not worth my time. I bid you good day. I also caution you to clean up your act, or expect to be booted from the board. I do not intend to endure your insults. If you nave nothing constructive to say, *say nothing!*

Harold


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