# dropping copper



## creth (Mar 23, 2010)

I'm a newbie this is for sure however, i have done my homework and haven't found how to drop the copper out of the nitric acid used to liquify the copper and silver and remove the gold fingers. I realize that the amount of copper pulled out is going to be pretty much worthless and irrelevent but would still like the information. 

Thanks 
Creth


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## qst42know (Mar 23, 2010)

Iron will replace copper in solution.


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## creth (Mar 23, 2010)

sweet thanks


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## Harold_V (Mar 23, 2010)

Note that pulling the copper out before disposing of the spent solution(s) borders on mandatory. Copper compounds kill plant life, so discharging to a water system is not a good idea. 

Typically, the recovered copper has value, but a source that will buy is not easily found. You may find you'll simply dispose of it as garbage. 

Keep some scrap steel in a 5 gallon bucket, to which you dump your solutions once they are barren of values. The scrap steel will precipitate the copper and nickel, rendering your solution relatively harmless. 

Harold


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## wavecrazed (May 3, 2010)

I scrap metals. Can I dissolve some copper out of wires, transformers etc? Thanks. 

tim


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## qst42know (May 3, 2010)

wavecrazed said:


> I scrap metals. Can I dissolve some copper out of wires, transformers etc? Thanks.
> 
> tim




Perhaps but you won't make any money at it. It would put your copper in a form you can't sell.


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## joem (Jul 26, 2010)

curiosity: how can you turn it into a sellable form?
joe


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 26, 2010)

joem said:


> curiosity: how can you turn it into a sellable form?
> joe



1. Drop it out with the use of steel.
or
2. Drop the PH and all metals will drop out of suspension.
3. Wash real well till no color change.
4. Melt and sell.


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## Harold_V (Jul 27, 2010)

joem said:


> curiosity: how can you turn it into a sellable form?
> joe


That's no problem at all. Making it profitable is. A cupola would likely make it reasonable, but you'd face all of the problems (EPA) of operating a cupola, which is frowned upon these days. 

The resulting copper cement can be melted easily, but flux is a requirement, so it's not a cheap process to pursue, in part because of the limited life of crucibles. Flux is very destructive of crucibles as well as furnace lining. 

Harold


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## qst42know (Jul 27, 2010)

Another thing to consider is copper in a known scrap form such as wire has a known purity and price. Most scrap yards aren't set up to assay unknown copper and if they buy it, it will likely be at a greatly reduced price.


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## 4metals (Jul 27, 2010)

Barren wrote:


> 2. Drop the PH and all metals will drop out of suspension.



That should be raise the pH. Unfortunately they come down as hydroxides. Good for waste treatment because most metals in there should drop when you go up to pH 9.5. If you go over 9.5 the zinc starts to re dissolve. If you use this process to prepare a sweeps material for recovery of PGM's by a copper smelter you can get paid for copper, but as a raw hydroxide I've never found anyone to pay for the copper. 

Cement the copper with iron and you will reduce it as a metal. It wont be pure as all the metals in the electromotive series beneath iron but above copper will come down also. Depending on what you have dissolved it may or may not be worthwhile.

The form you get from cementation is melt-able but unless you have a big melter and you're firing it anyway it may not be cost effective.


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## Barren Realms 007 (Jul 27, 2010)

4metals said:


> Barren wrote:
> 
> 
> > 2. Drop the PH and all metals will drop out of suspension.
> ...



Thank you for catching and correcting that.


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## Gold Trail (Aug 24, 2010)

Ill add my two cents worth here. 

I own a scrap yard. One that does know its butt from a hole in the ground. (see most yards arnt owned by joe neighbor anymore, most are owned by large corporations or holding companies.) And these small yuards that are now sucked into corporate America, arnt allowed to buy outside of the "norm" IE: copper pipe, buss bars, insulated wire, aluminum cans, etc. And even if they were allowed by mommy and daddy to buy out side the "norm", they still have no freaking clue as to what they are doing. 

My yard, on the other hand, (AKA me) will buy just about anything you put in front of us. everything from plastic to slag.

Heres a great example : I had a fellow refiner bring in a five gallon bucket of copper oxide. no other recycler would touch it. 

I happily bought it as brass (it has to be at least 80% copper to pass as brass). and that was that. most recycling yards, wounldnt have dared that. , but if you get out your handy dandy IRSI book, which, btw no one seems to have or know what it is any more, it clearly states that brass must be at least 80% copper, regardless of its form. 

This is what sets my scrap yard miles apart from others. 

god forbid anyone has to think outside the "box" these days.........

Ryan


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 24, 2010)

Ryan,

Since you are so wise and proud of yourself, perhaps you could enlighten us as to how you profited from that 5 gallon bucket of copper oxide. Did you sell it or process it? Brass is a metal and copper oxide is not a metal - it is a metal oxide. Surely, ISRI (not IRSI) must distinguish between the two. They are apples and oranges.


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## Gold Trail (Aug 24, 2010)

GSP, even though there were specs of visible gold, I dumped it into the brass drums. 

I should mention I had it scanned with one of those xray guns that tell you the metal composition. it was 81 % copper. 

I honestly dont remember what the other 19% was

I also may have mis represented what it was, It was a bucket of greenish powder

sorry for confusing the ISRI and IRSI I was in a rush this am.... not setting a good example at work "playing on the internet"

Ryan


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## goldsilverpro (Aug 24, 2010)

> I also may have mis represented what it was, It was a bucket of greenish powder


Whatever it was, it wasn't brass, in any shape, manner, or form. Putting it in the brass barrel would be like putting table salt in the Sodium Metal barrel. Brass, as defined, is a metal alloy and copper oxide is not even a metal. Like table salt, copper oxide contains metal, but it isn't a metal - huge difference. As a scrap item, especially in small quantities, the value of that copper oxide is worth far less than brass, no matter what percent of copper it contains. Actually, it is a liability, since the EPA would consider it hazardous heavy metal waste. I hope that drum of brass doesn't get rejected. If I were the buyer, I would surely reject it if I caught it. If I didn't catch it when I paid you, but caught it a couple of days later, everything you brought in in the future would be suspect, at least until I started trusting you again. Every drum you brought in, for awhile, would have to be dumped out and examined.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be a jerk, although I probably sound like one. I just think you are making a mistake and it will come back to haunt you. You might get away with it once but, it you continue doing it, it will come down on you. I think you took the ISRI listings a little too literally and read your own private interpretation into them. 

You might call your buyer and ask what he pays for copper oxide. Actually, according to the CRC handbook, pure copper oxides are either red or black. It sounds more like a mixture of hydrated hydroxides and sub-oxides to me. Also, I have no idea how accurate that x-ray gun is on non-metallics, but I would sure question it.


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## Gold Trail (Aug 24, 2010)

that was 6 months ago. never heard a word about it. I even called to be shure and he (the wholesaler) said it was ok. I even sent him pictures of it before dumping. I regret selling it that way though, as looking back I think there was still considerable gold value to it. but I was busy at the time. 

and not to sound like a conceded jerk, I am proud of my scrap yard and the knowledgeable base of people I sell to. I spent a LONG time establishing a small yard surrounded by huge corporate owned yards that have millions in backing, when I some times have every penny to my name wrapped up in inventory waiting processing to sell. 

its been a long tough road. we now employ six people full time, no lay offs in two years. 

The things we buy and the way were able to move product, has set my company miles apart from the corporate giants. 

The point that I was TRYING to get to is that 95% of the scrap yards today dont have a clue when it comes to things out side the "normal" and tend to shy away from anything that may pose a challenge. 

I pride my self in being able to buy & sell the oddest alloys and have quick pricing and movement of the materials for my clients. 

I bet over half the scrap yards dont even know what monel is any more ( hhmmm looks just like copper but the magnet sticks? now what do we do?) 

Ryan


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## oldgeek (Sep 24, 2010)

I have 4-5lbs of "dropped copper" that I suspect has decent values in it i would like to recover. Does anyone here have suggestions for methods to recover the gold from this small batch?


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## Anonymous (Sep 24, 2010)

Gold Trail, do not take offense to this,however,please take the time and effort to clarify your responses,and grammer is of utmost importance.Being vague is not productive,and misspelling words can be damaging.One misspelled word here or there is not that big of a deal,even I do that occasionally(and I am grammer man),however a response that is riddled with misspelled words can be catastrophic to someone that missunderstands what you are trying to say.
AGAIN,this was not meant to be offensive,only helpful.


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## JoshRecycles (Dec 26, 2010)

qst42know said:


> wavecrazed said:
> 
> 
> > I scrap metals. Can I dissolve some copper out of wires, transformers etc? Thanks.
> ...



The cleanest way to remove plastic coating from copper wires is boiling, I have a vintage stove and set 4 stainless pots cooking away. This will swell the plastic and the copper slides right out. I recycle the plastic at my local recycling plant, they accept it for free I just drive it up there when I am heading that way.


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## glorycloud (Dec 29, 2010)

Hmmm, interesting idea! 

Thanks! 8)


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## gold4mike (Dec 30, 2010)

Ditto!


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## trashmaster (Jan 1, 2011)

Thanks Josh; I did not think about doing that with the wire... but I will in the future, I sell around 4-500 lbs evrry 6 mo....The scrap yard here pays 0.55 cents per lb.. for power cables with the plug ends still on them,,, 95 cents if you cut them off.. I do as you said and boil the cable ends and pull the Brass conecters out,,, clip off the extra copper wire $ 2.90 per lb.. and the brass $1.75 per lb.... And they think we are stupid,,,,

paul


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## fiat128 (Jan 6, 2011)

> The cleanest way to remove plastic coating from copper wires is boiling, I have a vintage stove and set 4 stainless pots cooking away. This will swell the plastic and the copper slides right out. I recycle the plastic at my local recycling plant, they accept it for free I just drive it up there when I am heading that way.



That's interesting. What sort of wire is this, the small braided cable you find in electronics or heavier electrial type wiring. I've never done it that way, always mechanically strip or burn.


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## dub8 (Feb 22, 2011)

cool idea with the wire


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## rasanders22 (Feb 27, 2011)

fiat128 said:


> > The cleanest way to remove plastic coating from copper wires is boiling, I have a vintage stove and set 4 stainless pots cooking away. This will swell the plastic and the copper slides right out. I recycle the plastic at my local recycling plant, they accept it for free I just drive it up there when I am heading that way.
> 
> 
> 
> That's interesting. What sort of wire is this, the small braided cable you find in electronics or heavier electrial type wiring. I've never done it that way, always mechanically strip or burn.



Some states do not allow the wire to be stripped. In AZ any stripped wire cannot be bought from an individual. I found out the hard way. :evil: Although about a year later I found a place that thought it was Cu trimmings and I was finally able to sell off a few pounds of stripped wire that I painstakingly cut into very small pieces.


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