# New ram IC chips processing?



## Rreyes097 (Oct 7, 2022)

Tzoax said:


> I just tested a new type of chips - SMALL BGA chips, like in newer RAM memory types (DDR2/DDR3), and the similar chips from motherboards and cards. They are all small, square or rectangle shaped, and all of them have a foil base with solder balls.
> I soaked the chips in concentrated HCl and bring them to boil 3 times, the most of the tin dissolved. I incinerated the chips and washed with water. This time i used poorman's AR with KNO3. There was still some tin left so it took me some time to filter the solution with metastannic acid. I dropped the gold with SMB and washed the gold powder with hot water. I redissolved the gold again with poorman's AR to be sure that all of the contaminants are gone. I waited until AR was crystal clear and the contaminants like silver chloride and metastannic acid was settled at the bottom, then i carefully decanted the AR solution through the filter paper and dropped the gold with SMB again. I rinsed the gold powder with hot distiled water 3 times/3 times with hot HCl/3 times with hot distiled water. i dried the gold, measured it and here are my results...
> View attachment 30335
> 
> ...


I'm currently processing these lovely gals. Approximately 850 grams. But I'm afraid that my record keeping has failed me and it most likely closer to 1000. For the most part all the material is the same RAM IC chips, although I'm noticing that there are some small BGA chips mixed in not many but 3 or 4. I'm hoping this doesn't mess up anything. But I have ran them thru Hcl heated then with boiling water 5 to 6 times or more. Until the water rinsed pretty clear. Then I did the HCL, heated of course, and rinse thoroughly like the last time. I then tried to incinerate them with map and it works but not economically viable. I then tried pyrolyzation and that worked. In my electric furnace But it was too small and I had to much material. I then try to combination of pyrolyzation and incineration. But at my house it was too smoky and too stinky. So I found another place where I can just use a simple regular torch. Which was more economically viable. So I incinerated them. And now I'm trying to seive them thru a kitchen strainer thingy. I have no idea what the mesh size is. But I'm trying to crush and run them thru the strainer. Which is fastly becoming an arteries task. Grind with coffee grinder sift ground with mortar and pesto a little bit put it back in the coffee grinder and do it again! Does anyone have any helpful advice? I feel like I'm forgetting something on this post so there may be follow-up posts for the information I forgot to convey or ask. I'll attach photos as well.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 9, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> I'm currently processing these lovely gals. Approximately 850 grams. But I'm afraid that my record keeping has failed me and it most likely closer to 1000. For the most part all the material is the same RAM IC chips, although I'm noticing that there are some small BGA chips mixed in not many but 3 or 4. I'm hoping this doesn't mess up anything. But I have ran them thru Hcl heated then with boiling water 5 to 6 times or more. Until the water rinsed pretty clear. Then I did the HCL, heated of course, and rinse thoroughly like the last time. I then tried to incinerate them with map and it works but not economically viable. I then tried pyrolyzation and that worked. In my electric furnace But it was too small and I had to much material. I then try to combination of pyrolyzation and incineration. But at my house it was too smoky and too stinky. So I found another place where I can just use a simple regular torch. Which was more economically viable. So I incinerated them. And now I'm trying to seive them thru a kitchen strainer thingy. I have no idea what the mesh size is. But I'm trying to crush and run them thru the strainer. Which is fastly becoming an arteries task. Grind with coffee grinder sift ground with mortar and pesto a little bit put it back in the coffee grinder and do it again! Does anyone have any helpful advice? I feel like I'm forgetting something on this post so there may be follow-up posts for the information I forgot to convey or ask. I'll attach photos as well.


So I've grounded and sifted out all of this material and found that there is a lot of powder yet a lot of fibrous material and big chunks even after multiple coffee grinding grinds and another incineration. I see bits of copper mixed in probably from the BGA chips that I missed that went in there. Question if anybody can help me with would be. Do I process all of these materials separately? Per say all the chunky stuff with the copper in an AR or poor Man's AR? And the other powder in the other AR? I hope I make sense.


----------



## nickton (Oct 9, 2022)

Doesn't seem to be too many answers here.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 9, 2022)

Yeah haven't heard much but they are probably tired of my posts. But I do as much research as I can before I ask for help.


----------



## eaglekeeper (Oct 9, 2022)

The fibrous material is probably fiberglass..... some of your bonding wires will get caught up in that material. I usually grab out the big wads of it and set it aside. After my ashes are concentrated into a beaker I throw that material in and AR it with the ashes. 

As far as the Cu you can use Nitric to remove the base metals or AP if you're not in a hurry.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 9, 2022)

Hey thanks for the response! Very much appreciated. As it stands I grinded all materials used mortor and pestle. To pass everything thru the flour sifter thingy. whatever didn't pass thru I grinded yet again thru the coffee grinder. After the second pass and grind. I now have started the rinse! Which is taking a lot of water! And lots of rinses. Which I have concern with. Perhaps unwarranted concerns but I worry. I worry that I may be losing PMs that are getting ruined out. I mean I try to be careful and let water sit for a few minutes at the very least. But I'm using this glass pitcher for the rinses. And as you can see in the picture it has an odd shape and so I feel when pouring things may get tousled and bring up some of what I try to have settled. Or does the gold take a little more movement then I'm giving it while pouring water out of this pitcher? Either way I've saved all the ash and gunk that has managed to come out.
So what does everyone think? Do these ashes have my dear precious metals in them? Check it out the picture. Any advice on what to do with junk if precious metals are trapped in it? Also I tried my best to take out all copper pieces that I could find and put them in some warm Hcl then will probably process them with AP. Because I got the time.  Then I also have a container with lots of that fiberglass stuff fluff. Which I'll probably process the same way?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 9, 2022)

eaglekeeper said:


> The fibrous material is probably fiberglass..... some of your bonding wires will get caught up in that material. I usually grab out the big wads of it and set it aside. After my ashes are concentrated into a beaker I throw that material in and AR it with the ashes.
> 
> As far as the Cu you can use Nitric to remove the base metals or AP if you're not in a hurry.


Also


eaglekeeper said:


> The fibrous material is probably fiberglass..... some of your bonding wires will get caught up in that material. I usually grab out the big wads of it and set it aside. After my ashes are concentrated into a beaker I throw that material in and AR it with the ashes.
> 
> As far as the Cu you can use Nitric to remove the base metals or AP if you're not in a hurry.


Also am I reading that correctly? You process the ashes or did you mean the grounded up materials? Or are they one and the same. Either way thanks for the advice!


----------



## eaglekeeper (Oct 9, 2022)

1. Remove solder balls with a soak in Hcl.
2. Incinerate BGA chips...break them up by hand and remove any heat spreaders that some BGA's have.
3. grind incinerated chips.... I remove any large fiberglass fluff balls (if any) at this point and save for later.
4. Rinse out as much of the lite ashy material.
5. Nitric wash to remove the base metals. BGA's don't have legs but they have Cu traces internally. 
6. once the base metals have been removed add the fiberglass ball (if any) to the beaker, dissolve everything, filter and drop Au with your preferred method. 

That was just the recovery, you'll still have to refine it.

I'm sure there are others that do it a little different then I do and I'm sure they will chime in.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 10, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Hey thanks for the response! Very much appreciated. As it stands I grinded all materials used mortor and pestle. To pass everything thru the flour sifter thingy. whatever didn't pass thru I grinded yet again thru the coffee grinder. After the second pass and grind. I now have started the rinse! Which is taking a lot of water! And lots of rinses. Which I have concern with. Perhaps unwarranted concerns but I worry. I worry that I may be losing PGMs that are getting ruined out. I mean I try to be careful and let water sit for a few minutes at the very least. But I'm using this glass pitcher for the rinses. And as you can see in the picture it has an odd shape and so I feel when pouring things may get tousled and bring up some of what I try to have settled. Or does the gold take a little more movement then I'm giving it while pouring water out of this pitcher? Either way I've saved all the ash and gunk that has managed to come out.
> So what does everyone think? Do these ashes have my dear precious metals in them? Check it out the picture. Any advice on what to do with junk if precious metals are trapped in it? Also I tried my best to take out all copper pieces that I could find and put them in some warm Hcl then will probably process them with AP. Because I got the time.  Then I also have a container with lots of that fiberglass stuff fluff. Which I'll probably process the same way?


There are no PGMs in any of the chips I have heard of.
Maybe in some old Soviet stuff or other rare military/space stuff, but besides that, your precious metal will be Gold and maybe a tiny bit of Silver.
It may be prudent to re incinerate before leaching to make sure it is absolutely carbon free.

Edit to add:
If we expand to MLCCs, there are Pd and Ag in some older units, but they don't need incinerating.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> There are no PGMs in any of the chips I have heard of.
> Maybe in some old Soviet stuff or other rare military/space stuff, but besides that, your precious metal will be Gold and maybe a tiny bit of Silver.
> It may be prudent to re incinerate before leaching to make sure it is absolutely carbon free.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I didn't mean to write PGMs I meant precious metals (PMs) Such as gold and silver. How much silver do you think is in there? About a kilo is it worth recovering? If so when should I try that process before I do the AR I assume?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 10, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> I'm sorry I didn't mean to write PCMS I meant precious metals. Such as gold and silver. How much silver do you think is in there? About a kilo is it worth recovering? If so when should I try that process before I do the AR I assume?


Before you dissolve any PMs you need to be sure all the carbon is burnt off or gone.
Carbon will grab some/most of your PMs when it is dissolved.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 10, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Before you dissolve any PMs you need to be sure all the carbon is burnt off or gone.
> Carbon will grab some/most of your PMs when it is dissolved.


The carbon? I'm sorry but what exactly is considered carbon? The plastics?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 10, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> The carbon? I'm sorry but what exactly is considered carbon? The plastics?


You have pyrolized and incinerated them, right?

Then all plastic/epoxy and non ceramic packing of the chips will carbonize during pyrolizing. Most of it will during the incineration with air, turn into ash. But some will remain and needs a secondary incineration after concentrating.


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 10, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> The carbon? I'm sorry but what exactly is considered carbon? The plastics?


A very simplified explanation:

Plastic molecules consist mainly of hydrogen and carbon.
During pyrolysis (strong heating without oxygen supply - covered vessel), the molecules break apart. The hydrogen vaporizes and burns as soon as it leaves the container.
The carbon remains.
In the next step, the carbon is burned with the supply of air (oxygen) - open vessel.
This step is called incineration.

If the carbon was not burned completely and you dissolve the metals with acids, some of the metal atoms (especially the gold) will get trapped in the carbon and will be difficult to free again.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 10, 2022)

Oh well then yes I've incinerated them. And did some pyrolyzation. But probably didn't do it completely because I was under the impression that incineration was key. But Its too late to worry about that at this point. Well, kinda. But I have attached a photo of the ash cake that has come out of rinsing this material. That much Ash and whatnot seems to be a lot. And I feel that there's a good chance precious metals are within it.


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 10, 2022)

If you didn't treated this stuff with any chemicals, you can start again like it's a pile of ICs. If you already used hydrochloric acid or nitric acid on this stuff, you must be much more careful otherwise you may vaporize some values.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 10, 2022)

I have used hydrochloric acid to clean them up. But after doing that I rinsed with boiling distilled water three times or four times.


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 10, 2022)

Your material is looking dark. Hard to say if it's fully incinerated.
I would incinerate it again, grind it again and dissolve the gold and the remaining copper in AR. AP will do it also, but it will take much more time to dissolve the gold.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 10, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> Your material is looking dark. Hard to say if it's fully incinerated.
> I would incinerate it again, grind it again and dissolve the gold and the remaining copper in AR. AP will do it also, but it will take much more time to dissolve the gold.


When I seen videos on incineration I did notice that the material was white. But it seemed no matter what I did mine didn't get that white. I mean it got white, but stopped at only and the edges. And I've reincinerated them once over already. But I may have to do it after all. Because I have a ton of rinse water that I'm not sure contains anything of value or not. Plus the stuff I've been rinsing and even the fluff. Do you think the gold will settle off that rinse water and I can perhaps siphon it off? Also do you think I lost much thru vapor?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 11, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> When I seen videos on incineration I did notice that the material was white. But it seemed no matter what I did mine didn't get that white. I mean it got white, but stopped at only and the edges. And I've reincinerated them once over already. But I may have to do it after all. Because I have a ton of rinse water that I'm not sure contains anything of value or not. Plus the stuff I've been rinsing and even the fluff. Do you think the gold will settle off that rinse water and I can perhaps siphon it off? Also do you think I lost much thru vapor?


This is not neither pyrolized nor incinerated. Pyrolizing is done to decompose dangerous organic compounds by heating them without oxygen, and burning them off in the "after burner"
Incineration is heating them to burn off the carbon residues as CO2, it needs to be red hot for quite some time.
The ashes after is a loose white grayish powder that runs loose as long as it is not moist.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 11, 2022)

Thanks for the information. It's appreciated. So are you saying I need to do both?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 11, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Thanks for the information. It's appreciated. So are you saying I need to do both?


You need to get rid of the carbon without polluting the neighborhood.
There are not many ways to do that without.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 11, 2022)

Any ideas on how to safely do that? Because my glass jug just cracked. That's what I get for buying cheap glassware from goodwill!


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 12, 2022)

Did you roast them in a glass jug?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 12, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> Did you roast them in a glass jug?


I did not notice that, good question.


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 12, 2022)

It should be done like this:


----------



## Safiye (Oct 12, 2022)

Tzoax said:


> That was my tests so far, when i test again some new type of chips i will post it here, also if someone wants to share their results they can post here so we can compare results and get more accurate values. I hope these results will help someone to have some roughly view of gold content in specific types of chips.


hi Tzoax, first step for a recycling is roasting right? did you start with roasting?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 12, 2022)

Safiye said:


> hi Tzoax, first step for a recycling is roasting right? did you start with roasting?


My question to you is:
Have you read this whole thread?
If so, you should not need to ask this question.
He has not been in this forum since 2019


----------



## Safiye (Oct 12, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> My question to you is:
> Have you read this whole thread?
> If so, you should not need to ask this question.
> He has not been in this forum since 2019


It can continue with updated informations and people. 
Is there a rule that forbidden to make comment old posts? 
I see the dates before I write, don't worry. And if it is a problem to write to old conversations, please close commenting to old ones.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 12, 2022)

Safiye said:


> It can continue with updated informations and people.
> Is there a rule that forbidden to make comment old posts?
> I see the dates before I write, don't worry. And if it is a problem to write to old conversations, please close commenting to old ones.


Comments are welcome, but your comments this time, showed you have not read the thread and so did not understand fully what you commented.
I can't remember the whole thread but there was much discussions on yields and methods.
You should read the whole thread, good education this one. 

Edit to add:
The thread has been moved and as such the thread needed to read is the thread from Tzoax.


----------



## kurtak (Oct 12, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> It should be done like this:



Although there are certainly some truths in that video there are things that are not quite true as well (& at this point I have only watched the first 3 minutes of the video)

1) He is not using a foundry - he is using a furnace - a foundry is a complete operation/factory where they do smelting & casting of metals - *a furnace* (which he is using) is just one piece of equipment in the bigger operation of a foundry --- calling a furnace a foundry is kind of like calling a beaker on a hot plate a lab &/or a refinery

2) his furnace is poorly designed - his burner is going straight into the furnace causing the flame to make a direct hit on one side of the crucible - the burner should be going into the furnace at an offset angle so that the flame swirl's around the furnace/crucible in a cyclone action

Improper burner placement is part of the reason he has smoke going out the furnace hole when doing his pyrolization --- without proper burner placement - which creates the cyclone act in the furnace - he is not getting good retention time of the smoke & gasses inside the furnace to completely burn up the smoke/gasses before exiting the hole

Right now - his flame hits one side of the crucible - then hits the wall on the other side of the furnace/crucible & pushes unburned smoke/gases straight up & out the hole 

Pics of proper burner placement attached - which will provide for flame cyclone action around the furnace & crucible which in turn will provide retention time in the furnace & cause complete combustion of the smoke/gasses before exiting the hole

Also - carbon simply *& as a matter of fact* is not a problem in the first part of processing IC chips 

The carbon is NOT a problem until AFTER you get to your concentrates - once you have your concentrates - then yes - the concentrates need to be ashed before leaching

In other words --------

1) pyrolize chips (turn them to *complete carbon*)
2) mill *carbonized* chips to fine powder (80 - 100 mesh)
3) screen fine milled *carbon* to remove large Kovar & copper legs/wires as well as large pieces of silicon dies
4) pan &/or run fine milled *carbon* on concentrator table to *remove vast majority of* *carbon* giving you your concentrates 
5) Incinerate the now *much less carbon* to turn that much less *carbon* to complete ash
6) leach the small amount of now complete ash/concentrates

He needs to fix his burner placement on his furnace

He doesn't need to worry about carbon until after doing concentrating - at which time - then yes - that small amount of carbon needs to be ashed --- something he is going to have to do anyway - because he admits he is still getting carbon - just less of it

I have posted about all of this many times

Kurt


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 12, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> Did you roast them in a glass jug?


No of course not. It was on a warming plate and it started to crack.


----------



## kurtak (Oct 12, 2022)

And by the way - I am not saying mbpub method does not work - it just is not necessary - the carbon just flat out is not a problem until you get to the final concentrates before leaching

And - his burner placement on his furnace *most definitely needs to be fixed*

Kurt


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 12, 2022)

So which do I do? Because I can safely do both and incineration is easier for me.


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 12, 2022)

Hi Kurt,

You're right, it's not the best video about pyrolisation/incineration but I posted this while working and I had not much time for a extended search...
I just wanted to show, that the process of pyrolisation/incineration is not done by hitting the ICs by a torches flame for a while.

Many thanks for your explanations!


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 12, 2022)

So this is the fluff and stuff that I found that wasn't burnt enough. I still got most material in a jar settling so I can rinse then also incinerate. I don't know if I have quite the capabilities to do a proper pyrolization. I mean I tried to do it in my electric furnace but not enough space for far too much material. So other than torching these until they are white what else can I do? Check out the picture and tell me if this is enough? I'm going to mortar and pestle it as well.


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 12, 2022)

Rreyes097,

The crumbs are still looking very carbon like.

A redneck solution:
Get a metal paint can (with a metal lid).
Punch a couple of small holes into the side of the can near the upper rim, put all that stuff into the can. close the lid and put the can into a camp fire.

While pyrolisation, little flames will come out of the holes.
After the pyrolisation (no flames from the holes any more), open the lid and go on burn and stir the material until you get white (very light grey) ash.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 12, 2022)

So this material in the picture here is a mostly fluffy stuff like I said in the prior post and chips that weren't burnt enough but there's a fair amount of material in there. I torched them. Torched them until they turned white. Then hit them with the mortar and pestle. And then grinded them in a coffee grinder this is the material unwashed. I did this before I just got that last post thing I should probably pyrolize it. And thanks for that tip. And if y'all still think I need to pyrolyze this as well then I'll follow instructions accordingly. Also I don't want to confuse anyone the bulk of my material needs to be rinsed a lot and dried because of the acid I put on it when I had thought it was done enough. Before I go in try and pyrolize it and incinerate it AGAIN!  Let me know what y'all think. Ugh ... I just realized that blacklabel was talking about my prior picture. Dang I thought this one was good enough. Ok I'll set up a thing to pyrolyze em.  I'm getting kind of frustrated especially because this is the one material I waited the longest to try and process. So I tried to research as much as I could and thought I had learned enough to get it done. But here I am frustrated with a ton of material that needs to be rinsed thoroughly! And a ton of rinse water and ashy crud that came off the original rinse. Which I'm letting settle so I can siphon off the tops to try and lessen the material and then somehow process that Ash and crud alone. Because I'm worried that precious metals were trapped in that while rinsing. Any thoughts on what to do there? Because I'm lost.


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 12, 2022)

Hi Rreyes097,

It’s always hard to judge something just from photos. And as long we're not sitting on your shoulder, we can just make suggestions in order to maximize your yields.

Pyrolysis/pyrolisation is done if no combustible gases coming out of your vessel any more.
Incineration is done if the material is very light gray (outside and inside the ICs).
It takes much longer for the thick ICs than for the thin ICs (from RAM sticks).
Blowing air into the vessel and stirring/cracking the ICs will speed up things.

Burn them all!


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 13, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So which do I do? Because I can safely do both and incineration is easier for me.


As said before, both.
First pyrolize to drive off and burn the volatile compounds, then ashing/incineration to burn the ashes.
If you have a really hot furnace you may be able to do both in one step.
But as Kurt say, you need to have a complete incineration/ashing after you have your concentrates, 
to make sure there is no carbon left to "steal" values.


----------



## kurtak (Oct 13, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So this is the fluff and stuff that I found that wasn't burnt enough. I still got most material in a jar settling so I can rinse then also incinerate. I don't know if I have quite the capabilities to do a proper pyrolization. I mean I tried to do it in my electric furnace but not enough space for far too much material. So other than torching these until they are white what else can I do? Check out the picture and tell me if this is enough? I'm going to mortar and pestle it as well.



In the pic you provided with the above post - it looks like the chips you burned are the BGA type chips from the more modern RAM - that is evident by the small sheets of fiberglass in the "green" board part of the chip

These are high yield chips 4 - 5 grams per kilo --- however they are also the most difficult chip to process because

1) the bond wires are VERY SMALL

2) the fiberglass sheet in the green board part of the chip which makes separation/concentration of those very small bond wires very difficult - the very small bond wires like to get locked up in the fiberglass

3) therefore you can not run them threw a true concentration process (wash carbon/ash away to get a good concentrate) *All* of the burned material needs to leached - so ALL the carbon needs to be eliminated (burned to complete ash)

4) the entire process - to insure you get all you values back - is to complicated to describe in this post - as there are different stages/process you have to do with these chips compared to all other types of chips (thanks to that dam fiberglass)

Right now - my concern - after enlarging the pic & looking at it - I see what looks like a LOT blobs of melted metal in the burned material (though the pic gets quite blurry when enlarged 

Those blobs of metal that I see tell me a couple possible things that are likely going to complicate the processing of your burned chips

1) those blobs of metal are tin solder because before burning the chips you did not remove the solder balls on the bottom of chips by dissolving the solder ball off the chips - with HCl - before burning the chips 

2) IF (the BIG IF) you did remove the solder balls (before burning) then when you burned the chips you got them so hot it melted the thin copper between the green fiber board & the black epoxy top 

So --- *VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION* --- did you soak the chips in HCl - to dissolve the solder balls off the chips *before burning them ?*

Kurt


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 13, 2022)

Yes, I did soak them in heated Hcl. Twice I think. But this has been such a long and difficult procedure that if it was twice or not. I think I wrote it in my original post on this thread. But too early in the morning right now to go back and check. But I am 100% certain I did it and then rinsed them like crazy. Also the bulk of the material, not in that last picture, was put into Hcl again when I thought I was ready for the AR. So I'm rinsing that stuff right now so I can incinerate or pyrolyze them. Thanks for the continued reply. Because you are right this is a complicated process. And all of the material is only ram memory, the new kind without legs. But I did accidentally have a few BGA chips in there so that's why the is copper or maybe copper blobs?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 13, 2022)

Okay so while I rinse the bulk of my material and then incinerate or pyrolyze. I was wondering what would the best route would be to processing all the Ash and cred that came off of it while doing the preliminary rinses after the first and second incineration. I know it's getting confusing and I apologize. So what do you guys think I should do? I'll attach a couple of photos of what I'm talking about. So as you can see from the photos the bulk of it looks to just be Ash. But I am scared that I may have rinsed off a lot of my precious metals or at least some. I don't want to make another mistake because I'm so frustrated already. So what do you think guys should I put it all together and burn it? Put it all together and put HCL?


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 14, 2022)

@Rreyes097 now we are far off topic with the original title of this thread, maybe you should start a new thread .


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

MicheleM said:


> @Rreyes097 now we are far off topic with the original title of this thread, maybe you should start a new thread .


I tend to agree to some extent, it has been diverted from the yield side to basic processing.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 14, 2022)

I moved the posts from Rreyes097 to a new thread to keep things on Topic, and not muddle up Tzoax's original thread.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 14, 2022)

Ok so what exactly should I do? Start new thread?


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 14, 2022)

Rreyes097,

Yggdrasil already made a new thread from your "problem".


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 14, 2022)

So is there another thread that I'm missing? If so what's the name of it so I can find it? Cuz I could use some help. I wish there was someone that would have talked to me on the phone because typing this out with pictures is quite difficult on both sides to find answers for problems I have.


----------



## FrugalRefiner (Oct 14, 2022)

Rreyes, the thread you started asking your questions in was very specific to a member who tested a lot of different components and shared the yield information. Your questions didn't add any yield data to that thread, so Yggdrasil separated your posts, and those of members who responded to you, and started this thread we're posting in right now. Everything pertaining to the questions you've been asking is right here.

Dave


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 14, 2022)

Yes, I understand that but I started to think that there was yet another thread started that I didn't know the name of. Awesome, thank you so much


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 15, 2022)

So yeah can anyone tell me point me in the right direction on how to check this sludgy material that came off the ic chips after I did my initial incineration? It's ash and crud but I saved because I felt my PMs were trapped inside. They may not be and I'm just wasting time. But I'm lost and haven't come across anything in my searches of this forum.

I was thinking about evaporation or something like that?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 15, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So yeah can anyone tell me point me in the right direction on how to check this sludgy material that came off the ic chips after I did my initial incineration? It's ash and crud but I saved because I felt my PMs were trapped inside. They may not be and I'm just wasting time. But I'm lost and haven't come across anything in my searches of this forum.
> 
> I was thinking about evaporation or something like that?


After it was incinerated how did it end up sludgy?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 15, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> After it was incinerated how did it end up sludgy?


No this is the rinses from the material that I'm currently drying. I didn't throw away any of the ash/ sludgy stuff because I felt it may have some of my PMs. But maybe I'm wrong? This stuff is from before I even knew I needed to incinerate again. Also I think I found a decent container to use to pyrolyze the actual material. Tell me what you think.


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 15, 2022)

Did you try to swirl around the glass jar for a while and look through it with your head below? 
I mean with your eyes looking at the the bottom towards the top of the jar. You should see the gold


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 15, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> No this is the rinses from the material that I'm currently drying. I didn't throw away any of the ash/ sludgy stuff because I felt it may have some of my PMs. But maybe I'm wrong? This stuff is from before I even knew I needed to incinerate again. Also I think I found a decent container to use to pyrolyze the actual material. Tell me what you think.


Did you read the threads you were recommend to read, in full I mean?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 15, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Did you read the threads you were recommend to read, in full I mean which ones were those?


Forgive me but what threads were those because I would be happy to oblige. I need any information I can find. Daily I read the new posts just for fun. So if there's a thread with this situation then I'm all for it. I just find some of those threads although very informative but not always situationally the same. 


MicheleM said:


> Did you try to swirl around the glass jar for a while and look through it with your head below?
> I mean with your eyes looking at the the bottom towards the top of the jar. You should see the gold


Yes but it's very thick. But it very well may just be ashy sludge. I just wanted to be sure if there's a way.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 15, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Forgive me but what threads were those because I would be happy to oblige. I need any information I can find. Daily I read the new posts just for fun. So if there's a thread with this situation then I'm all for it. I just find some of those threads although very informative but not always situationally the same.
> 
> Yes but it's very thick. But it very well may just be ashy sludge. I just wanted to be sure if there's a way.


I see now, they weren't pointed at directly, but you know, it is expected that one does ones own research in here.

Both Kurt aka Kurtak and Patnor among others, has excellent and lengthy threads in this topic.
So search them and read, you won't be disappointed. 
I really don't expect there is much missing.


----------



## cosmetal (Oct 15, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I tend to agree to some extent, it has been diverted from the yield side to basic processing.


Thank you . . . 

Tzoax's original thread is a classic "must read". It deserves to stand alone and not be diluted.

Peace and health,
James


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 15, 2022)

cosmetal said:


> Thank you . . .
> 
> Tzoax's original thread is a classic "must read". It deserves to stand alone and not be diluted.
> 
> ...


That is the reason it is moved.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 15, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I see now, they weren't pointed at directly, but you know, it is expected that one does ones own research in here.
> 
> Both Kurt aka Kurtak and Patnor among others, has excellent and lengthy threads in this topic.
> So search them and read, you won't be disappointed.
> I really don't expect there is much missing.


I know to research my own stuff. Thanks for the new thread.


----------



## Christian333 (Oct 15, 2022)

MicheleM said:


> Did you try to swirl around the glass jar for a while and look through it with your head below?
> I mean with your eyes looking at the the bottom towards the top of the jar. You should see the gold


Good idea and works well.

Janie


----------



## Christian333 (Oct 15, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So yeah can anyone tell me point me in the right direction on how to check this sludgy material that came off the ic chips after I did my initial incineration? It's ash and crud but I saved because I felt my PMs were trapped inside. They may not be and I'm just wasting time. But I'm lost and haven't come across anything in my searches of this forum.
> 
> I was thinking about evaporation or something like that?


Use a microscope to check the ash for evidence of bond wires.

Janie


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 15, 2022)

Christian333 said:


> Use a microscope to check the ash for evidence of bond wires.
> 
> Janie


Ooh. That's a good idea I'll try that! Thanks so much. But let's say for some reason I do see evidence of gold? Any idea on how I process such a sludgy mess?


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 15, 2022)

@Christian333 beautiful sight!


----------



## Christian333 (Oct 15, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Ooh. That's a good idea I'll try that! Thanks so much. But let's say for some reason I do see evidence of gold? Any idea on how I process such a sludgy mess?


I use a glass flask for gravity separation. Take a sample of your ash, add water and count to 10, pour off water slowly then check the waste for bond wires. If you see bond wires in the waste, increase the count time to 15 and repeat.
Eventually you find the right amount of time to wait, giving bond wires time to settle at the bottom of the flask prior pouring off water. Once you have it down to zero evidence of loss, repeat on the rest of your ash.

Janie


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 15, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Ooh. That's a good idea I'll try that! Thanks so much. But let's say for some reason I do see evidence of gold? Any idea on how I process such a sludgy mess?


You should pan the gold out of it... I used 3 different beaker in sequence to do it ( to be sure not loose any gold) and a empty 2 L water plastic bottle as final container of the ashes (in case you need to treat them again for any reason)


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 16, 2022)

So I did some simple filtering of the sludge and never got a whiff of gold. So I'm still checking it out, but I'm feeling like this is just sludge. And that's it. I'm coming to this conclusion not because I'm not seeing any gold right away but because this rinse was from one of the first rinses so it's filled with ash and crud. I'm going to check out the rest.


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 16, 2022)

What do you mean with "simple filtering"?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 16, 2022)

MicheleM said:


> What do you mean with "simple filtering"?


Oh what I meant by simple filtering is that I filtered it thru a coffee filter.


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 16, 2022)

Did you follow the instructions given by @Christian333? ( comment #66)


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 16, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Oh what I meant by simple filtering is that I filtered it thru a coffee filter.


What ever goes through the coffee filter will have no Gold, in my opinion at least.


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 16, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Did you read the threads you were recommend to read, in full I mean?


No, he didn't because only in this thread at least 4 people told him what to do.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 16, 2022)

MicheleM said:


> Did you follow the instructions given by @Christian333? ( comment #66)


I


Christian333 said:


> I use a glass flask for gravity separation. Take a sample of your ash, add water and count to 10, pour off water slowly then check the waste for bond wires. If you see bond wires in the waste, increase the count time to 15 and repeat.
> Eventually you find the right amount of time to wait, giving bond wires time to settle at the bottom of the flask prior pouring off water. Once you have it down to zero evidence of loss, repeat on the rest of your ash.
> 
> Janie


Yes I did. But not quite the same. I took a small sample of it. I put it in a beaker and added water and swirled it around. I put it up to a light and looked for any kind of gold I could find. But there was none. So i wasn't sure how to follow the instructions exactly as written since I seen no bonding wires. I repeated this 4 or 5 times throughout the sludgy material in order to ensure there was nothing hiding further down in the container.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 16, 2022)

MicheleM said:


> No, he didn't because only in this thread at least 4 people told him what to do.


Why would you say that? I already posted that I did that. Might not have been with the proper beakers and what not. But I indeed do what was advised of me the best way I could. Thanks for the input. But no need to be disdainful towards me. I suppose my "simple filtering" comment may have thrown you guys off. But what I meant was after looking at these samples I let the water go thru a coffee filter after swirling it in the cup looking for bone wires. So anything that I poured off went into that filter to catch just in case I missed seeing these little buggers. So I apologize for skipping the part where I was following the instructions of all four of you. But I assure you that I indeed took in all of the advice given and I applied it the best way I was capable of.


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 16, 2022)

@Rreyes097 i apologize if my comment appears disrespectful to you but let me explain. 
I read the whole thread more than twice and , as i wrote , more than one member give you all the specific information necessary to solve your specific problem including the title of other useful threads. Nevertheless your focus and comments were not on "panning the gold out of the mud" but on other , always different, things. Someone, like me, could think that you didn't read what they told you to. Now i believe your statement that you have read ALL the comments and suggested threads, you followed exactly that instructions and didn't find any gold. Well in my opinion there is no gold in that mud. For future "test" Remember the gold density


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 16, 2022)

Thanks so much for your apology. I truly didn't mean to be confusing in any way. But I did go back and read all of them again and found how my lack of detailed communication was misleading and I apologize as well. I'm just so frustrated with process. I've been hesitant to perform this process and gold recovery from IC chips because of the extra hassle of incinerate and/or pyrolizing. So I just collected and collected my horde of icy chips and figured I would go with the simplest which I thought was the simplest which were these IC chips with no legs or metal to speak of. Except for the solder balls of course. I've read everything I can. And thought I had this in hand. But alas I do not and all this tedious extra steps are frustrating enough let alone drying it and doing it all over again! ( In which I do it right this time, or at least thorough!)

So now as it stands. I have my material drying and awaiting pyrolyzation. Any advice on what to do from this point on? I showed the container I plan to use for pyrolyzation. So I guess until then nothing needs to be done?


----------



## Christian333 (Oct 16, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> I
> 
> Yes I did. But not quite the same. I took a small sample of it. I put it in a beaker and added water and swirled it around. I put it up to a light and looked for any kind of gold I could find. But there was none. So i wasn't sure how to follow the instructions exactly as written since I seen no bonding wires. I repeated this 4 or 5 times throughout the sludgy material in order to ensure there was nothing hiding further down in the container.


Unless you have the bond wires extremely concentrated the swirling won't work. You need a microscope to see bond wires that may be getting washed out with your ash.

Janie


----------



## Christian333 (Oct 16, 2022)

This is one type I use. Purchased on Amazon.

Janie


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 16, 2022)

Christian333 said:


> This is one type I use. Purchased on Amazon.
> 
> Janie


I've actually got something much like that but no light. I'll use it on the next batch of rinse crud. But this stuff has been dried because it was caught in filter.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 17, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Thanks so much for your apology. I truly didn't mean to be confusing in any way. But I did go back and read all of them again and found how my lack of detailed communication was misleading and I apologize as well. I'm just so frustrated with process. I've been hesitant to perform this process and gold recovery from IC chips because of the extra hassle of incinerate and/or pyrolizing. So I just collected and collected my horde of icy chips and figured I would go with the simplest which I thought was the simplest which were these IC chips with no legs or metal to speak of. Except for the solder balls of course. I've read everything I can. And thought I had this in hand. But alas I do not and all this tedious extra steps are frustrating enough let alone drying it and doing it all over again! ( In which I do it right this time, or at least thorough!)
> 
> So now as it stands. I have my material drying and awaiting pyrolyzation. Any advice on what to do from this point on? I showed the container I plan to use for pyrolyzation. So I guess until then nothing needs to be done?


That was the reason why I asked if you have read the threads that was recommended. 
You have at least been skipping some important threads from your own research.
Pyrolizing is the *first* thing you do before any incineration so the volatile gases can be burnt off.
And you will find drawings of pyrolizing vessels. The simplest is just a tin can with some holes in the upper part.
For incineration an open wide container is best so it has good access to air and stirring. Frying pan may be used.
So now you will incinerate the powder in a wide open container.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 17, 2022)

So I'm not sure if I asked this question already but will this work for paralyzation I tried before but I never really worked because I got so much material. But I'm not sure what else I have that'll work without starting a fire in the fireplace.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 17, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So I'm not sure if I asked this question already but will this work for paralyzation I tried before but I never really worked because I got so much material. But I'm not sure what else I have that'll work without starting a fire in the fireplace.


I do not think this one is a good solution.
Search the forum for pyrolizing, there are good simple devices shown there.
Closed vessels with exit holes into the flames heating it. 
Or if you use a electrically heated system you need a capture system.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 17, 2022)

Yeah I figured it wouldn't work well. So decided to go with this. I built this a long time ago. But never used it for what I intended to. I got the idea from a video on YouTube the plaster inside it's from plaster of Paris so it can be heated up but only a couple times. I use wood pellets in there hopefully trying to get a coals going. But it's difficult. I got air coming thru on the bottom side with a fish tank air pump pushing in air. Any tips? Maybe something stronger then the air pump?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 17, 2022)

Vacuum cleaner in reverse will be better.
And you still need a vessel for the chips.


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 17, 2022)

This pump is supposed to make some bubbles in a fish tank.

The pot is too small, you just can process a good handful of material in it each run.

Scale it up:
An old gas tank / gas bottle (propane/butane, 10-20 liters volume, steel) as furnace.

Even if it's emty (no pressure), it still holds one time of it's volume of gas!
Don't cut it with something like an angle grinder!!!
Screw off the valve an fill the gas tank with water. This will push out the remaining gas.

This furnace needs two openings:
One on top for loading and one smaller on the side a few inches above the bottom for you fan or burner.

You can feed it with charcoal and blow it with a heat gun or you can use a gas torch/burner. On the long run, the torch will be cheaper.

For the pyrolysis, you could use a cooking pot with a lid (about one liter, full steel, no plastic handles) from garage sale.

Put your stuff into the pot, put the pot into the gas bottle and fire!

For the incineration, it could be enough to open the pot. Maybe it needs more air (oxygen).


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 17, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> This pump is supposed to make some bubbles in a fish tank.
> 
> The pot is too small, you just can process a good handful of material in it each run.
> 
> ...


It does have a hole on the side. That's why there is a copper pipe there. But I removed the copper pipe and went with the heat gun which worked well. But only really heated up one side and I couldn't get a uniform coal all around it going it was just one side really hot. I tried a little on the electric furnace and I'm wondering what you guys think. The picture on the right is the crucible that I had filled with material and put in the impromptu furnace. But I couldn't get it going hot enough. So that material is after a half hour in or in the heat. And like I said, I had air blowing in the side via heat gun. So I'm not sure what to do other then build a better unit to pyrolyze. Such as the


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 17, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I do not think this one is a good solution.
> Search the forum for pyrolizing, there are good simple devices shown there.
> Closed vessels with exit holes into the flames heating it.
> Or if you use a electrically heated system you need a capture system.


What is a capture system?


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 17, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> What is a capture system?


The toxic fumes that coming out of the plastic must be burnt real hot in order to break them down into non toxic ("normal") smoke. There's no flame in an electric furnace, so the fumes will not get burned and have to be captured/condensed.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 17, 2022)

Well I persisted with the homemade furnace and I made some modifications and I think I got it pretty well pyrolyzed. I got em nice and red for a long time. It IMO looks pretty good. But please let me know what everyone else thinks. Also in the picture the sieve I plan to use and had before. Is that a good mesh size? Because I have no idea what size it is. So do you guys think it needs more pyrolyzing?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 18, 2022)

I was able to pass 98% of that material through that strainer so does that mean it's grounded fine enough or maybe the mesh has too big of holes? So looks like it's rinsing time? Rinse with water to rinse off ash correct? And during those said rinses am I gold panning? Or after it's rinsed? I don't think after makes sense. But I'm all ears and ready to learn and finally get this process down and learned into my bag of skills!


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 18, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Well I persisted with the homemade furnace and I made some modifications and I think I got it pretty well pyrolyzed. I got em nice and red for a long time. It IMO looks pretty good. But please let me know what everyone else thinks. Also in the picture the sieve I plan to use and had before. Is that a good mesh size? Because I have no idea what size it is. So do you guys think it needs more pyrolyzing?


What you are describing now is incineration, this powder of yours has been burned/heated before? Right?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 18, 2022)

Now I'm confused. I thought pyrolyzation was when it's in heat but no direct flame on it? I used a crucible with a lid. And yes it has been torched. But I didn't know at that time that I was supposed to not use flame on it? But are you saying I did it wrong?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 18, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Now I'm confused. I thought pyrolyzation was when it's in heat but no direct flame on it? I used a crucible with a lid. And yes it has been torched. But I didn't know at that time that I was supposed to not use flame on it? But are you saying I did it wrong?


Look at pyrolizing in Wikipedia.
It is heating something in the absence of oxygen. This way the volatile/combustible gases and liquids are evaporated off until no other compounds than carbon is left from what ever organics was there.
The off gases are usually fed back into the fire heating the pyrolizing chamber and as such achieves two things.
The off gases are burnt off in high temperature and broken down to normal burn gases like CO2 and similar. 
And it saves a bit on the fuel used to heat it up.
When no more combustible material comes from the pyrolzing chamber it is done.
Then the mechanic processing may commence if needed. 
Anyway, before any leaching can be done it has to be incinerated, which in many cases are the same as pyrolizing but with access to oxygen so all the remaining carbon can be converted to CO2.


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 18, 2022)

Hi Rreyes097,

Q: When is the pyrolysis done completely?
A: If no more combustible fumes coming out of the vessel.

Q: When is the incineration done completely?
A: If your material (ICs?) became light grey (nearly white) outside AND inside.

It all depends on heat, time, type of material and amount of material.
Find it out for your own:
Compare two different ICs. One flat and one of the old style.
The old, thick IC will take much longer for the full incineration. Cracking them after pyrolysis and/or while incineration will speed things up.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 18, 2022)

I don't understand how it's not pyrolyzed.  I put it in a crucible and placed it in the fire with a lid on the crucible. The air I pumped into it was for the coals to increase temperature. What was I supposed to do? Please know that I have read every single word many times over in this thread. But now I'm not just confused but now I'm frustrated. Are u saying I now need to put flame directly on material?


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 18, 2022)

Normally, the pyrolysis is the easy part.
If it's done correctly and if you proceed with the incineration, the ICs will glow like charcoal in a barbecue.
If the ICs are not fully pyrolysed, you will see funky flames dancing above the material, smoke and you will strongly smell burning plastic.

Incineration is the "harder" part because the pyrolysed material does not burn very well.
It's like the comparison between hard coal and charcoal. Incomplete incinerated ICs will show a black core under their surface.
Bringing air in between the ICs and move them while roasting will help.

——

To sculpt a lion out of a block of stone is easy. Just chisel all non lion-looking parts off.

Pyrolysis and incineration is much easier. Try this first. 

Edited for spelling


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 18, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> I don't understand how it's not pyrolyzed.  I put it in a crucible and placed it in the fire with a lid on the crucible. The air I pumped into it was for the coals to increase temperature. What was I supposed to do? Please know that I have read every single word many times over in this thread. But now I'm not just confused but now I'm frustrated. Are u saying I now need to put flame directly on material?


That is incineration with low air.
Did you have bad smell and smoke coming out of the fire?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 18, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> I don't understand how it's not pyrolyzed.  I put it in a crucible and placed it in the fire with a lid on the crucible. The air I pumped into it was for the coals to increase temperature. What was I supposed to do? Please know that I have read every single word many times over in this thread. But now I'm not just confused but now I'm frustrated. Are u saying I now need to put flame directly on material?


I want you to do two things please.
Based on the information given in this thread explain.
What is pyrolizing?
Next
What is incinerating?

Hint, it has nothing with flames to do.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 18, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> A very simplified explanation:
> 
> Plastic molecules consist mainly of hydrogen and carbon.
> During pyrolysis (strong heating without oxygen supply - covered vessel), the molecules break apart. The hydrogen vaporizes and burns as soon as it leaves the container.
> ...


This is what I was told it was. But I guess I interpreted its meaning. I thought I pyrolyzation was burning something without direct flame, such as a can with a few holes in a pile of coals? and incineration was basically torching it. What do I have wrong?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 19, 2022)

So I seen a video of streetips, and he was processing his filters and he and put it on a burner and from that burner it burnt the filters without the flame if I'm correct and what I seen. Is that what I should have done? 0 so does any of the stuff I've done help at all? Or worse yet what, did I lose precious metals by doing it the wrong way? Because in the beginning I torched them. And at the end like I my previous thread said I put them in a crucible covered on the flame which is what I thought was right and now I don't know where to go from here.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 20, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So I seen a video of streetips, and he was processing his filters and he and put it on a burner and from that burner it burnt the filters without the flame if I'm correct and what I seen. Is that what I should have done? 0 so does any of the stuff I've done help at all? Or worse yet what, did I lose precious metals by doing it the wrong way? Because in the beginning I torched them. And at the end like I my previous thread said I put them in a crucible covered on the flame which is what I thought was right and now I don't know where to go from here.


He did what we call ashed the filters.
When doing ashing, it is essential to keep the temperature low to avoid losses.
So the answer is no.

Torching them as you did works, but are hard and gives off a lot of smoke and smell.
You need them to be glowing red for a long time.

The place you are at the time with your powder, you only need to incinerate them well for an hour or so.
Spread them thin and heat them to glowing and rake them for time to time, until there are no more grey or black left.

You never reported back the two things I asked from you.


----------



## war_child (Oct 20, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Now I'm confused. I thought pyrolyzation was when it's in heat but no direct flame on it? I used a crucible with a lid. And yes it has been torched. But I didn't know at that time that I was supposed to not use flame on it? But are you saying I did it wrong?


Hello Rreyes097
I am not a refiner, and I am only new to recovery and the forum, but from what I understand, the pyrolysis process is largely an environmental concern. The epoxy/plastics the IC chips are made from contain a lot of toxic materials. These toxins will be released into the atmosphere and environment when burned. It's the black smoke with vapors and the micro-particulate matter being carried away that is the pollutant. Those fumes can be captured & destroyed through pyrolysis. If done properly, there will be no black smoke & suit released. So, yes, you are past the pyrolysis process & no, you didn't pyrolyze. You will on your next batch though, because you can go through the many threads and posts here, write down all your questions, consult these guys with you complete procedure *before you begin, then you are going to have some rewarding & encouraging results.

I am also in the process of recovering gold from IC chips right now. I started a small sized test batch, and I am eagerly reading these posts and getting ready to proceed when I am more confident. My ashes will be in an old Cool-Whip container until then. You seem to be much more motivated than I am, and I'll bet you will get your gold button or BB soon. 

Best of luck!
mike


----------



## orvi (Oct 20, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> This is what I was told it was. But I guess I interpreted its meaning. I thought I pyrolyzation was burning something without direct flame, such as a can with a few holes in a pile of coals? and incineration was basically torching it. What do I have wrong?


Look the definition on Wikipedia. These things are basics. And it was discussed here myriad of times before, dozens of same questions with dozens and dozens of same answers.
Depending on what procedure you inted to use, adjust your process. But firstly, GET YOUR APPARATUS STRAIGHT and plan what you are gonna do. And you certainly want to do better than folks in central Africa, who burn car tires just to be able to sell the steel reinforcements  altough sadly, also here where I live many people do practically the same. For sake of convenience, they are putting their health under very serious threat and slowly giving asthma and lung diseases to the children living in the neighborhood. Just a thing to consider, because we know how it is  

If you want to process like Kurt, you does not need to incinerate firstly. If you want to direct smelt the ashes, or leach the ashes, you need to fully incinerate the material to zero leftover carbon.
Filler in IC plastic is 99% of times plain silica dust. Silica is white. So any shade of darker gray or even black does say you do not have plain silica in your ash. 

Burning things need two things to burn - AIR AND TEMPERATURE. Neat, easy, nothing else. So that´s it - you need to deliver air => oxygen directly to the place where material will be burnt, and you does need to keep temperature above 500°C for burning to proceed smoothly. Otherwise it won´t happen. Period.

Burner use up the oxygen from the air to combust the fuel (MAPP, propane etc.) - so you aren´t delivering enough oxygen to the chips. If you fill them up into the graphite crucible, how the air is supposed to get to the ones on the middle and bottom ?
Use stainless steel strainer or mesh to allow oxygen to get there, do not make high layers of chips to facilitate the air directly to the place where it is needed. Costs like 2 bucks at dollar store. Just make sure it´s stainless.

And third, do not burn out the oxygen in the air in the first place - use regulated temp heatgun instead of burner. Easy, simple, cheap, straightforward. Whole setup here including cost of the heatgun (ca 35euros) cost me under 80 euros. Permanent investment, usable for many other things - furnance also for melting, heatgun for anything around the house. No excuses are legitimate here  it can be done right.


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 20, 2022)

Not an expert here but I would say: pyrolysis as to do with the decomposition of volatile substances of an object in a very low oxidant (oxygen) environment, incineration with direct combustion in oxidant environments.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 20, 2022)

Ok, Yggdrasil I thought I had answered your questions. But I guess it was not my own words so I will go thru this whole thread and reread it and give you a answer in my own words. But right now I gotta go to work! But thanks for everyone responding and I will get this figured out and get this gold if it's the last thing I do.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 20, 2022)

Well I just looked up the definition of pyrolysis and incineration. The difference and the similarities. And I feel like I understand now incineration is the heating of the element with oxygen and the other is without. I'm not sure how to explain myself without just writing what I read the actual definition I mean. So with that being said how is an electric furnace with the lid on it not pyrolysis? So Yggdrasil I only have to incinerate now? But the video of streetips put his filters in to a pot that was heated at the bottom. He called incineration. But you're calling Ashing? Why is that? And what would the proper form of incineration be for me then? Because I understand the definitions now but I don't understand which falls into proper incineration or proper pyrolysis. I thought I understood when I seen Street tips do that in a pot and calling it incineration.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 20, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> He did what we call ashed the filters.
> When doing ashing, it is essential to keep the temperature low to avoid losses.
> So the answer is no.
> 
> ...


He called it incineration how is that different I'm getting confused again although I do understand the definitions as I replied below and to the best of my abilities.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 20, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> He called it incineration how is that different I'm getting confused again although I do understand the definitions as I replied below and to the best of my abilities.


I have the same turkey fryer burner he has if that helps.


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 20, 2022)

The pyrolysis should be done in an "flaming environment", otherwise the escaping gases won't get burned. An electric furnace doesn't work with flames.
These gases aren't good for you and your environment. If they get burned at high temperatures, they mostly break apart into normal products like CO2.
Nevertheless you shouldn't breath in theses fumes.

AND:
If you create these gases without burning them instantly as fast as they develop, they could accumulate around your furnace and may ignite by a spark or by reaching its ignition temperature. (Bad boom!)


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 20, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> He called it incineration how is that different I'm getting confused again although I do understand the definitions as I replied below and to the best of my abilities.


Ashing is what is done with filters, active carbon and such. 
But as per previous testing, ashing filters should be done at approximate 280 Centigrade to avoid excess loss of Gold.
Ashing Active Carbon is slightly different and more like ordinary incineration as the same tests show best result around 600 Centigrade.

This link is worth every minute








Further things which may be of interest to members


For the last few weeks I have been processing an electrowin sludge from a gold/copper mine carbon strip plant. The sludge is formed from the cathodic reduction of metals solubilised from the stainless steel anodes in the electrowin cell. Major metal components of the sludge are manganese...




goldrefiningforum.com


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 20, 2022)

So please inform me on exactly what I need to do to this material from this point on. Like exactly. With the tools I have on hand. Just torch it for like an hour? Or what? From this point I kinda need it spelled out for me. And so the next time I'll know what to do. Because I have lots of regular ic chips left.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 20, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So please inform me on exactly what I need to do to this material from this point on. Like exactly. With the tools I have on hand. Just torch it for like an hour? Or what? From this point I kinda need it spelled out for me. And so the next time I'll know what to do. Because I have lots of regular ic chips left.


I hope that didn't come off or out in the wrong tone. I would appreciate any help that any would take the time to give to me. Thank you and thank you for all of collectives help here. I am very chatty on here so I'm sure it gets old.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So please inform me on exactly what I need to do to this material from this point on. Like exactly. With the tools I have on hand. Just torch it for like an hour? Or what? From this point I kinda need it spelled out for me. And so the next time I'll know what to do. Because I have lots of regular ic chips left.


Spread it out thin on something heated to a red strong glow. Stir/rake it until no more smoke or white sparks and it should be done. 
It may take some time though.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 21, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Spread it out thin on something heated to a red strong glow. Stir/rake it until no more smoke or white sparks and it should be done.
> It may take some time though.


So like a frying pan on the turkey fryer to burner? Thanks for the help! Then after that I'm good to go on the acids or do I still need to push it thru the strainer again?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So like a frying pan on the turkey fryer to burner? Thanks for the help! Then after that I'm good to go on the acids or do I still need to push it thru the strainer again?


As long as you get it to a strong red glow until no smoke or sparks form when stirring it, it should be ok.
This is the batch without legs are it not?
Edit Spelling


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 21, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> As ling as you get it to a strong red glow until no smoke or sparks form when stirring it, it should be ok.
> This is the batch without legs are it not?


Correct these were the chips without legs.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 21, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Correct these were the chips without legs.


After proper incineration/ashing go straight to dissolving, yes.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 21, 2022)

Ok so it's not getting red hot. And not much smoke is coming off of it. So what y'all think? Is the setup wrong? And plus it's a little windy. Should I be worried about that?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 21, 2022)

This is the fluffy stuff I had set aside. Now when this went into pan to incinerate it really smoked and burned. But the main material did not smoke as much. Perhaps I incinerated it better then I previously thought when I did it last time? Think it's done?

Also, do I now rinse it until it's mostly clear of the ash? Or am I going straight to acid like with no rinses?


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 22, 2022)

from the first picture, the epoxy residues Look like coarse grained (not enough fine), how did you pulverize them ?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 22, 2022)

MicheleM said:


> from the first picture, the epoxy residues Look like coarse grained (not enough fine), how did you pulverize them ?


Coffee grinder then multiple trips thru the kitchen strainer I showed in one of my previous pictures, and a mortor and pestle or just the mortar. Is that not ground down enough? Also should I be rinsing these again? And looks like my nitric is going to be late. Would a poor Man's AR work? The rinsing part makes me nervous because I'm afraid I'm losing PMs.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 22, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Coffee grinder then multiple trips thru the kitchen strainer I showed in one of my previous pictures, and a mortor and pestle or just the mortar. Is that not ground down enough? Also should I be rinsing these again? And looks like my nitric is going to be late. Would a poor Man's AR work? The rinsing part makes me nervous because I'm afraid I'm losing PMs.


You Need to get it bright red when incinerating, to get rid of all carbon.
The carbon will lock up your Gold during leaching.


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 22, 2022)

First 2 minutes:


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 22, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> You Need to get it bright red when incinerating, to get rid of all carbon.
> The carbon will lock up your Gold during leaching.


Are you saying this isn't done? I seen that they got red but I couldn't get them to reach all glowing. But they were on there for over an hour. The second batch I was able to get it glowing pretty good but it was far less material. It is much grayer in color and looks way less solid.

I'm feeling really dismayed because I just cooked these suckers for as long and as hot as I could. And for them to still not be done is really really frustrating.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 22, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Are you saying this isn't done? I seen that they got red but I couldn't get them to reach all glowing. But they were on there for over an hour. The second batch I was able to get it glowing pretty good but it was far less material. It is much grayer in color and looks way less solid.


So the second batch is probably Ok, if you have a magnifier or microscope and check it thoroughly it should be all light grey, no dark spots.
Do you have a thick steel plate or a skillet/frying pan? 
Put it on barbecue coals and use a blower/vacuum cleaner in reverse to blow on the coals to keep them hot.
But be careful to not get it too hot so the plate melts.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 22, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> So the second batch is probably Ok, if you have a magnifier or microscope and check it thoroughly it should be all light grey, no dark spots.
> Do you have a thick steel plate or a skillet/frying pan?
> Put it on barbecue coals and use a blower/vacuum cleaner in reverse to blow on the coals to keep them hot.
> But be careful to not get it too hot so the plate melts.


I used a propane turkey fryer burner. Thought that was pretty good. The metal on it got really red. But ok I'll do it again.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 22, 2022)

So I looked at it thru a magnifying glass and although I feel everything is grey, some are darker than others I suppose. So I'll give it another go tomorrow.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 22, 2022)

So I just noticed that there is metal still undissolved in my material. This metal cause problems? Cuz right now I'm out of nitric acid and so I'm using HCL and bleach what does everyone's thought on that am I really screwing things up now?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 22, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So I just noticed that there is metal still undissolved in my material. This metal cause problems? Cuz right now I'm out of nitric acid and so I'm using HCL and bleach what does everyone's thought on that am I really screwing things up now?


The HCl bleach route needs to be done carefully so you don’t push the pH too high. 
Anyway all metals need to be dissolved so the Gold don’t cement out.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 22, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> The HCl bleach route needs to be done carefully so you don’t push the pH too high.
> Anyway all metals need to be dissolved so the Gold don’t cement out.


So how high is too high on the pH? And did I need to do anything different for the metals? What am I missing


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 23, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So how high is too high on the pH? And did I need to do anything different for the metals? What am I missing


It seems you are missing some patience!
Before you started with the HCL Bleach route you should have researched it as you should with anything you have not done before.
Do you have access to Hydrogen Peroxide, 10-12%?
It is much more forgiving since it do not push the pH up.


If not, the HCl Bleach solution need to be acidic to release Chlorine ins sufficient amount to dissolve the Gold.
(I would try to keep it below 2-4, but be ware I myself have not used Bleach only pool tablets.)
At the same time low temperature keeps the chlorine in solution but results in slower reaction.

So describe how you do it please.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 23, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> It seems you are missing some patience!
> Before you started with the HCL Bleach route you should have researched it as you should with anything you have not done before.
> Do you have access to Hydrogen Peroxide, 10-12%?
> It is much more forgiving since it do not push the pH up.
> ...


Well I am only using the HCL and bleach on the small portion of the material. The odd fluffy stuff. So this is only a test run to see if it works before trying to use it on the main material. I rinsed it before hand. Then I added Hcl and warmed it. Then I added small amounts of bleach. I just kept it nice and warm. And after awhile I added a more bleach. So now my gold is dissolved. And the pH is still not an issue according to my pH meter. But I haven't tried to precipitate any gold yet. I'm not sure how to tell if all gold has been dissolved though.  
According to the stannous test there is gold. I still need to properly incinerate the bulk of the material.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 23, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Well I am only using the HCL and bleach on the small portion of the material. The odd fluffy stuff. So this is only a test run to see if it works before trying to use it on the main material. I rinsed it before hand. Then I added Hcl and warmed it. Then I added small amounts of bleach. I just kept it nice and warm. And after awhile I added a more bleach. So now my gold is dissolved. And the pH is still not an issue according to my pH meter. But I haven't tried to precipitate any gold yet. I'm not sure how to tell if all gold has been dissolved though.
> According to the stannous test there is gold. I still need to properly incinerate the bulk of the material.


This test do not show anything conclusive, dilute it and use cotton bud or paper, much easier to read.
Since we are not dealing with foils, it is hard to ascertain when the Gold are dissolved. 
It just dawned upon me that you are dissolving solid Gold wires.
Better use HCl/Peroxide or AR and use heat, they are much harder to dissolve than foils.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 23, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> This test do not show anything conclusive, dilute it and use cotton bud or paper, much easier to read.
> Since we are not dealing with foils, it is hard to ascertain when the Gold are dissolved.
> It just dawned upon me that you are dissolving solid Gold wires.
> Better use HCl/Peroxide or AR and use heat, they are much harder to dissolve than foils.


Yes I agree. After this I will just do AR on the main material. But for this I'll just try and recover the gold that did dissolve. So I will save this martial and treat it with AR when I get more nitric because I have no idea if all the gold has been dissolved or not.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 23, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Yes I agree. After this I will just do AR on the main material. But for this I'll just try and recover the gold that did dissolve. So I will save this martial and treat it with AR when I get more nitric because I have no idea if all the gold has been dissolved or not.


Still don't look conclusive, it should be a beautiful Violet.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 23, 2022)

Then what is making that color? And the first picture was violet. Maybe just bad pic of not very violet?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 23, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> Then what is making that color? And the first picture was violet. Maybe just bad pic of not very violet?


Dilute it even more. What colour are the solution?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 24, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Dilute it even more. What colour are the solution?


I already started to drop the gold so the solution is greenish blue?


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 24, 2022)

There is a lot of base metals , if you refine that powder the solution should be yellowish


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 24, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Dilute it even more. What colour are the solution?


I already started to drop the gold so the solution is greenish blue?

Oops, I accidently posted twice. Sorry!


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 24, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> I already started to drop the gold so the solution is greenish blue?
> 
> Oops, I accidently posted twice. Sorry!


One thing you need to do is to acquire some patience.
What point is it to give advice when you just have pressed ahead and made the advice pointless?

As Michele said if this is the colour, it is mostly base metals.
That leads to the question if ALL metals are dissolved, if not much of what Gold was in the solution is still in the leftover mud/mass.
Greenish blue says there are Copper and maybe Iron in there. Or still some Gold.
Pure Gold bearing solution should be Yellow to Orange depending on concentration.
The picture is before or after precipitating the Gold?

Edit to add:
How are you dropping the Gold?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 24, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> One thing you need to do is to acquire some patience.
> What point is it to give advice when you just have pressed ahead and made the advice pointless?
> 
> As Michele said if this is the colour, it is mostly base metals.
> ...


How am I not patient? What exactly was I waiting for? I appreciate all advice but I didn't know I was waiting on it before going ahead with the process.
So yes there are base metals present. But according to stannous test there isn't any gold left in solution. I kept the material just in case I left some undissolved. Do you think there's more gold to be dissolved? I'll send a pic of the gold powder it dropped. And surprisingly it looks like a lot for it being only a small portion of the material. Which the bulk of it still needs a final incineration. But couldn't do it over the weekend because of windy weather and tons of other obstacles. But now that I know there is gold in there, and I can successfully drop it thanks to all of you guys and you're helpful advice. I feel more confident in doing these in the future I can't wait to see how much gold will the bulk of the material produce.
And how am I dropping it you asked? Will this time I use urea to denox the nitric. Only because I seen a video of someone dropping (oops, meant to say, denoxed) it with urea instead of sulfamic acid when it was the bleach and hydrochloric acid method. It seemed to work rather well but do you know if I can use sulfamic acid instead? But then I dropped it with SMB. I'll send pictures soon.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 24, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> How am I not patient? What exactly was I waiting for? I appreciate all advice but I didn't know I was waiting on it before going ahead with the process.
> So yes there are base metals present. But according to stannous test there isn't any gold left in solution. I kept the material just in case I left some undissolved. Do you think there's more gold to be dissolved? I'll send a pic of the gold powder it dropped. And surprisingly it looks like a lot for it being only a small portion of the material. Which the bulk of it still needs a final incineration. But couldn't do it over the weekend because of windy weather and tons of other obstacles. But now that I know there is gold in there, and I can successfully drop it thanks to all of you guys and you're helpful advice. I feel more confident in doing these in the future I can't wait to see how much gold will the bulk of the material produce.
> And how am I dropping it you asked? Will this time I use urea to denox the nitric. Only because I seen a video of someone dropping it with urea instead of sulfamic acid when it was the bleach and hydrochloric acid method. It seemed to work rather well but do you know if I can use sulfamic acid instead? But then I dropped it with SMB. I'll send pictures soon.


Urea can’t be used to drop Gold.
Some use it when they have overdone the Nitric. In HCl-bleach or HCl-Peroxide settings it has no other effect then adding chemicals to your solution.
Sulfamic is also used when you have added too much Nitric, but the end result is not an explosive substance, but instead creates Sulfuric acid.

If there is additional base metals left in the “mud” there is also Gold. But you need to dissolve it to be able to test it with Stannous.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 24, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> Urea can’t be used to drop Gold.
> Some use it when they have overdone the Nitric. In HCl-bleach or HCl-Peroxide settings it has no other effect then adding chemicals to your solution.
> Sulfamic is also used when you have added too much Nitric, but the end result is not an explosive substance, but instead creates Sulfuric acid.
> 
> If there is additional base metals left in the “mud” there is also Gold. But you need to dissolve it to be able to test it with Stannous.


I didn't mean to say I dropped the gold with urea. I denoxed the nitric (oops, not nitric!) with urea, but dropped the gold with SMB. And yes I saved the material after I dropped the gold, so I can can check it later for missed precious metals I may have not got in the first go round.
So what am I missing? Any tips on when I go to do the bulk of the ic chips? Can I use sulfamic acid to detox the acid or do I use something else since it was HCL and bleach. Which just made me come to the conclusion that maybe I didn't need to use the urea at all since it wasn't nitric acid that I was using. Is that what you meant?


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 24, 2022)

Sulfamic acid is used as a "deNOXX"- ing agent...(decomposition of HNO3 and NOx ions)..for HCl and bleach you should wait a couple of days or warm up the solution over 40 Celsius degrees for 3-4 hours to decompose the excess of bleach ....man you did not research a lot ....


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 24, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> I didn't mean to say I dropped the gold with urea. I denoxed the nitric (oops, not nitric!) with urea, but dropped the gold with SMB. And yes I saved the material after I dropped the gold, so I can can check it later for missed precious metals I may have not got in the first go round.
> So what am I missing? Any tips on when I go to do the bulk of the ic chips? Can I use sulfamic acid to detox the acid or do I use something else since it was HCL and bleach. Which just made me come to the conclusion that maybe I didn't need to use the urea at all since it wasn't nitric acid that I was using. Is that what you meant?


Urea or better Sulfamic is ONLY for Nitric and only if you use too much


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 24, 2022)

Rreyes097,

The sulfamic is only needed to kill the nitric acid.

Dissolving gold in aqua regia (AR):
Put the gold into a beaker.
Cover the gold with hydrochloric acid.
Add small amounts of nitric acid (about 1 ml per gram of pure gold) and heat it to 70-80°C.
Don't premix the AR!
If the dissolution stops, add a little bit nitric acid. If this won't restart the dissolution, add more hydrochloric acid.
For the last crumbles, add nitric acid dropwise.

Ideally, there's no or just a little remainder of nitric acid after the gold is dissolved completely.

Add a splash of sulfuric acid (it will precipitate some minute amounts of lead).
Add some ice cubes and let it cool down.

Filter the solution.

*This is the moment for the sulfamic acid:*

Add a a little bit of sulfamic acid. It will fizz while killing the nitric acid. Add a little more until the fizzing stops. R.I.P nitric acid.

Now add SMB to precipitate the gold.

Thats it!


*Addendum:*

1. If there's free nitric acid in the gold bearing solution, it will form aqua regia and dissolve the gold again just after you precipitated it by SMB.

2. If your gold isn't pure yet, you will need more nitric acid than 1ml per gram. Silver consumes about 1.5 ml per gram, copper about 4 ml.

- - -

Try to avoid to overdose the nitric, it will save you nitric acid, sulfamic acid, SMB, time and waste.

If you didn't used AR or poor mans AR, you don't need sulfamic acid!

ALL STEPS HAVE TO BE DONE INSIDE A FUMEHOOD!


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 24, 2022)

MicheleM said:


> Sulfamic acid is used as a "deNOXX"- ing agent...(decomposition of HNO3 and NOx ions)..for HCl and bleach you should wait a couple of days or warm up the solution over 40 Celsius degrees for 3-4 hours to decompose the excess of bleach ....man you did not research a lot ....


deNOx only one x for the missing/plural number that may inhabit that space


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 24, 2022)

e.g. NOxx for NO12


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 24, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> deNOx only one x for the missing/plural number that may inhabit that space


inside the " " you can write anything, two X to reinforce the concept, if you read all the comment i wrote HNO3 and NOx , but if you want to precise you should write H_{3}O^{+ } + NO^{-}_{3}


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 24, 2022)

MicheleM said:


> Sulfamic acid is used as a "deNOXX"- ing agent...(decomposition of HNO3 and NOx ions)..for HCl and bleach you should wait a couple of days or warm up the solution over 40 Celsius degrees for 3-4 hours to decompose the excess of bleach ....man you did not research a lot ....


I didn't? Well I haven't seen that. But thanks for the information.


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 24, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> e.g. NOxx for NO12


NOxx is wrong


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 24, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> Rreyes097,
> 
> The sulfamic is only needed to kill the nitric acid.
> 
> ...


I used bleach and hydrochloric acid. And the rest of what you wrote I have already known about but thanks for the time you took to reply.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 24, 2022)

MicheleM said:


> Sulfamic acid is used as a "deNOXX"- ing agent...(decomposition of HNO3 and NOx ions)..for HCl and bleach you should wait a couple of days or warm up the solution over 40 Celsius degrees for 3-4 hours to decompose the excess of bleach ....man you did not research a lot ....


I did heat it. And I successfully dropped the gold. But I didn't know that you weren't supposed to use sulfamic or urea to neutralize or denoxxxx it.


----------



## MicheleM (Oct 24, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> I did heat it. And I successfully dropped the gold. But I didn't know that you weren't supposed to use sulfamic or urea to neutralize or denoxxxx it.


Good for you , finally you can enjoy your gold! Now, moreover, you know that there are no "NOXXXXX" molecules in HCl+ NaClO+ H20+ NaCl


----------



## BlackLabel (Oct 24, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> I did heat it. And I successfully dropped the gold. But I didn't know that you weren't supposed to use sulfamic or urea to neutralize or denoxxxx it.


Right hand side, behind the beaker - did you kidnap Santa Claus?


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 24, 2022)

BlackLabel said:


> Right hand side, behind the beaker - did you kidnap Santa Claus?


That's funny! Keen eye site you got there!


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 25, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> One thing you need to do is to acquire some patience.
> What point is it to give advice when you just have pressed ahead and made the advice pointless?
> 
> As Michele said if this is the colour, it is mostly base metals.
> ...


So when you said dilute more. Did you mean to use h20 or Hcl?


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 25, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> So when you said dilute more. Did you mean to use h20 or Hcl?


I'm confused, I said nothing about diluting in the reply you are quoting.

Anyway, for a Stannous test that do not matter much, but water is cheapest.
Please use correct terms for Chemical compounds, H2O and HCl, upper and lower case matter.
CO is Carbon monoxide and Co is Cobalt, and plenty more cases.


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 25, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I'm confused, I said nothing about diluting in the reply you are quoting.
> 
> Anyway, for a Stannous test that do not matter much, but water is cheapest.
> Please use correct terms for Chemical compounds, H2O and HCl, upper and lower case matter.
> CO is Carbon monoxide and Co is Cobalt, and plenty more cases.


I'm sorry I must have mistaken your post with someone else's.


----------



## Yggdrasil (Oct 26, 2022)

Rreyes097 said:


> I'm sorry I must have mistaken your post with someone else's.


I did talk about diluting but not in that post


----------



## Rreyes097 (Oct 26, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I did talk about diluting but not in that post


No worries. All is well.


----------



## ssmontecarlo (Nov 14, 2022)

I read this in its entirety....
My advice, read, watch videos and figure out a basic process/safety. Be patient. Can't get in no hurry.

Members will help you with problems in the recovery and refining. But do your part also.

Honestly, there is a member on here, I'd would pay money, an apprenticeship, for them to teach me how to recover all the metals possible. 

Anyhow Be Safe


----------

