# PGM's are being found in the United States



## Aphrodite (Oct 1, 2015)

I am hoping that this post will open your minds to this. Recent research proves this, and it is found as a sediment, in Sedimentary rocks, amongst other things. My terminology was as, "silt." My apologies for any confusion this may have caused. I do not know the terminology used in this field of expertise, as I am new at this, but I have recovered PGM's. I took photos of my water, ore, and the silvery white metallic substance that I have collected to show you that I have found what I have stated as true. I have Chlorides that I believe is called, "sponge" material? They are shades of tan, with sparkles. The silt at the bottom of my water turned nearly black in some of them, some have pinkish red sediment, Rhodium salts. 

I am asking you to please take this seriously enough to help those of us who have stumbled upon these metals. We need your help, not your judgment. I do not know who to send anything to. If you could please suggest a Company that deals with these metals, as well as the hidden gold, it will be a blessing. I understand that these metals were only found in small deposits in the U.S. in the past, but they were not being explored for enough back then. Now they are, but still minimally. 

The Colorado School of Mines sites locations where Platinum was found in the U.S. as early as 1901,and then stopped researching them. If the U.S. had put more effort into exploration after this, then more of the PGM's may have been found by now. They took the easy way out by buying from abroad, and made the rest of us look like fools upon discovering them. Miners in the U.S. we are told had found Platinum in the bottom of their pans in the past, and threw it out, obviously there is a source for that metal somewhere near the Gold Mines, and possibly elsewhere. Some of it looks like "Fools Gold," some is shiny in the pan, some is a dark black spot on the bottom of the pan and it is not that spectacular looking until dried, then it becomes a silvery white. I have photos. Panning at night under a florescent light helped me to see sparkles that are not obvious during the daylight hours. 

Here are some links defending the discoveries of PGM's in the United States. I am certain that it is not a complete list, but several of them are from "USGS, The United States Geological Survey. From what I have researched you can find PGM's associated with Gold Ore deposits, Silver, Chalcopyrite, Copper, and even I believe, Perridotite deposits. One link is in Colorado, but they have also discovered PGM's at other Gold Mines, and even in Wyoming. Please research this if you have any doubts, but my links are good, and meant to be informative.

Chalcopyrite connection to PGM's information. United States Geological Survey Professional Paper

A Gold-Platinum-Palladium Lode in Southern Nevada

Platinum-Group Elements in Sedimentary Environments in the Conterminous United States

PGM'S are associated with Chalcopyrite, which I have found in this Ore. Geology and Ore Deposits of the La Plata District, Colorado

This is where I got my Ore from. The "Clear Creek District." It is part of the "Front Range Mineral Belt," and right around the area of many Gold Mines. ~ Front Range Mineral Belt

My water is beautiful. Some was, and is, dark purple (almost black), yellow, gold, pink, blue -black, and various shades in between. The only thing that would do this are PGM salts. Panning for them is a lot different than panning for gold. You need to muddy up the water to collect the "sediment." The thin black layer at the bottom of the pan turns silvery white when it drys, and is usually thrown out, because it just seems like it is black sands sediment. It is not, and it is not magnetic. My water sat for around three months, in mostly shade before I noticed that it had changed color. Maybe the peroxide was the key in finding these, or the combination of Jet Dry and peroxide? I believe that people are too quick to boil the water, because they are anxious to get at the micro gold, and you may be losing out on your PGM's by doing this. 

I respect all of you, but discoveries are not always made by experts in the "field." Sometimes they are made by "noobs," and on accident. This is the case here, and if I had not done my research, then I would not have realized what I have, and that I need your expertise in order to move forward with this. People once believed that the earth was flat, and we know better now. 

Platinum was once thought to be silver, and it was named, "Platina," because of this, now they are mining it, and they know it as platinum. What I have are PGM's, and the platinum reacts violently to the peroxide that I use. I just need to know the best, most honest "Dealer" to send it to. That's all that I am asking. Many of you have dealt with the people in this business. Who would you recommend? Is Johnson Matthey a good business to deal with? They have not responded to my emails. I found them on a search, and it appears that they do business in North America. 

In the time that I have spent writing this all of my metals have taken a huge hit in the Market. Please take my hard work, and research seriously. I am losing money the longer it takes to find help, and I do not want to be ripped off. I was excited with my discovery, but now I am feeling more disappointment than anything. 

Here are some of the photos.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
Respectfully and sincerely,
Aphrodite <3


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## g_axelsson (Oct 1, 2015)

You don't have any proof at all. All you want is for us to say that you have found platinum where everyone else have failed and anyone that tells you otherwise you ignore.

I can't help you, you need to learn to accept the truth, and the truth is that you are dreaming. I won't recommend any refiner because it will only end badly.
If you ever find a refiner to take in this material you will find out the hard way that they won't be able to recover any pgm:s from it and then you will get an invoice for the processing and you will blame him for being dishonest.

If you don't have money for making an assay then you really don't have money for paying for a recovery.

It is obvious from your usage of terms that you don't know what they mean, for example how you use "sponge". Your text contains so many errors that I don't have time to list them all.

A lot of different processes can create colored waters, that is not a proof of anything. You need to study a lot more.

Göran


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## Aphrodite (Oct 2, 2015)

> You don't have any proof at all. All you want is for us to say that you have found platinum where everyone else have failed and anyone that tells you otherwise you ignore.



Göran, I did not ask anyone to tell me what I have, but if you have an alternative suggestion, then I will listen, and I will research it. I am not ignoring anyone. No one has told me that I do not have PGM's, instead I have read statements that claim that PGM's are not found in the United States. I am trying to show that the idea that the United States does not have them is an outdated idea. I believe that I will have proof if I can find a Refiner to take me seriously. That is what I am looking for on this forum. 



> If you ever find a refiner to take in this material you will find out the hard way that they won't be able to recover any pgm:s from it and then you will get an invoice for the processing and you will blame him for being dishonest.
> 
> If you don't have money for making an assay then you really don't have money for paying for a recovery.



This statement confuses me, because from what I have read on many of the company profiles they take a percentage of the findings. This is Calavarite Gold Ore. I have seen some gold. Not one of the Companies stated that they would send an "invoice" for lack of finding anything. 



> It is obvious from your usage of terms that you don't know what they mean, for example how you use "sponge".



There is a question mark at the end of the sentence, because I was asking if my powder was considered "sponge." I know that some of it is considered to be chloride. It is mostly powder. 



> Your text contains so many errors that I don't have time to list them all.



I understand that you are from Sweden. I write in American English, not the Queens English. I am guessing that there is a problem translating the text, because I use spell check software. If you can explain the errors, then I will try to avoid them in the future.



> A lot of different processes can create colored waters, that is not a proof of anything.



The only "processes" that I have done, are to pan. I used vinegar and baking soda, lemon juice and salt, and hydrogen peroxide to help dissolve the Ore. None of these should have been able to change the color of the water. When I noticed the water change I did research, because I had no idea why it would do that. The only thing the research pointed to were PGM salts. If you know of anything else that would cause this, then please tell me. I am listening. If you have any idea as to an alternative to PGM's for what the silvery white substance is that I have been collecting, then please let me know. 



> You need to study a lot more.



I have been researching a lot, but right now what I need is help getting my materials processed. Then I will know what I have found, and I can post the results.


The following links are possibly more evidence that PGM's are found in the United States, and the lack of funding for exploration is no excuse for the outdated data. Just my opinion, lol.


Mining and Engineering World, Volume 27 ~ Note that on page 1013 it states that the first mention of Platinum in the United States, by someone named Blake. He found it as a fine powder, which is what I have been collecting.

Mining and Engineering World, Volume 27


The following shows 505 incidences where Platinum is claimed to have been found. The problem is that our Government has done nothing in the way of researching many claims. They collected the data, and did nothing to explore the possibilities, then they put the map data sideways. The problem is not that PGM's are not being found. It seems to be that our Government has better things to do with our resources, and money, and they are not interested in even updating the data. They updated last in 1993. That is absurd.

U.S. Department of the Interior ~ 
U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY ~ Maps showing Platinum-Group Element occurrences in the conterminous United States, updated as of 1993. By Jocelyn A. Peterson

Thank you for your time and consideration.
Respectfully and sincerely,
Aphrodite <3


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## mls26cwru (Oct 2, 2015)

if you do not know what you have and do not know how to test for it, then your only option is to take it to someone who can assay it for you. Find and assayer, be ready to pay for the assay. That will tell you for sure what you have in your ore.

In all honesty, you are just blindly guessing at what you have. From what I have read from others on this forum, ores are often so highly contaminated with other metals it can be very tough to determine what you have even with good testing procedures. So stop guessing and start testing... that way if you do actually have something, you will know for certain.


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## Aphrodite (Oct 2, 2015)

Thank you so much for your reply. You are correct that I am guessing, but my research leads me to the conclusion that it is PGM's. I understand that it could be something else. When I did a search for Assayers in Colorado it led me to Pawn Shops. I am not really interested in taking anything to a Pawn Shop, that is why I am asking for help on here. They cannot do a scratch test, because it is in powdered form anyway. If anyone knows of a Pawn Shop that has a true Assayer, then I would make the trip. Most of them want solids, and will only test solids.

Maybe I will take it to the School of Mines Museum in the next few weeks. This is getting frustrating.  

I appreciate the help! 
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Respectfully and sincerely,
Aphrodite <3


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## solar_plasma (Oct 2, 2015)

Aphrodite said:


> > > Your text contains so many errors that I don't have time to list them all.
> >
> >
> >
> > I understand that you are from Sweden. I write in American English, not the Queens English. I am guessing that there is a problem translating the text, because I use spell check software. If you can explain the errors, then I will try to avoid them in the future.



This thread starts to get annoying. Most active long time members here are american and this is quite the common language here, though I only got aware of differences, when most say aluminum and Jon from UK or other europeans say aluminium.

You have not researched anything, you use terms in a wrong way, your understanding of processes goes towards zero. Read Ammens, read Hoke, read some books about assaying. Please don't believe, you have researched this matter, before you have read an equivalent to 10 books about it. Then we talk one language, - no not english or american english, but we talk metallurgy. Most of your questions will be answered or you'll understand, they do not make sense. You will have new questions, good ones. 

Then, I would like to read those questions and the discussions that follow. But until now, this is a meaningless approach.


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## Anonymous (Oct 2, 2015)

Aphrodite. 

We were ALL new at some point. Take heart from that. I asked for a mentor on here only a few years ago when I was new to this and the learning curve has been incredibly steep. In fact I re-read some of my original posts and cringe :shock: 

Actually some would say that they read my recent posts and cringe but that's another story entirely 8) I would honestly suggest that you take the positives from what the guys are saying here. It really IS all about learning and reading, and soaking up information like a sponge. 

You'll get knocks and bruises along the way but nobody actually means badly, they are trying to help but I appreciate that it can come across in other ways. You've been given some really really good advice on this thread already, and it's your choice whether to accept and act upon it, or not. 

Good luck out there. 

Jon


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## malfeces (Oct 2, 2015)

I find one statement here interesting, that there are no platinum group metals in the US. Well, according to the Maine mineralogical and geological society, there have been PGM's found in Ashland, ME. There was no large quantity mind you, and it could have been a tiny placer deposit like much of the gold found here, but it makes me wonder none the less.


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## jadesource (Oct 5, 2015)

I have found both Platinum, Rhodium and Palladium. In Washington, the palladium in payable quanities.


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## Lou (Oct 5, 2015)

There are PGMs here; see Stillwater complex


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## Harold_V (Oct 6, 2015)

In my many years working as a refiner, I processed materials sourced in the US that yielded palladium, so to say that there are no platinum group metals to be found in the US is absurd. In fact, one of the platinum metals is well distributed around the world, and is thought to be the result of the meteorite that spelled doom for the dinosaurs. 

It is public knowledge that the huge copper operation in Utah (Kennecott Copper) produces platinum and palladium, albeit in small quantities, the result of smelting copper concentrate. They report in minor amounts, but are collected as a result of the copper operation. They could not be mined economically in and of themselves. 

I processed a small sample of sand from the desert in Southern Utah. I found traces of palladium, along with silver and gold. I also refined more than 60 ounces of placer, all recovered from what used to be the Green River in south-eastern Utah. The old river bed yielded gold of high purity (about 94%, along with some silver and traces of palladium). 

That being said, it is absurd for anyone to assume that humans in the US have been unable, or unwilling, to find the platinum group metals. Humans have eagerly searched for metals of value as long as they have been known to exist. The real problem is, they are not known to exist in commercial quantities in the US (there may be an exception, but only marginally so), which, by now, is most likely very reliable information. To assume that you, or anyone, has discovered that which others who have gone before us failed to detect is beyond reason. 

If you believe you have discovered something of value, put your money where your mouth is. Send a sample to a qualified assayer. Be prepared to be told you don't have it. I expect you do not. 

I am not trying to discourage you---just trying to have you see that your hopes are most likely outweighed by reality. An assay will prove me wrong (or right). 

Harold


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## NobleMetalWorks (Oct 6, 2015)

To the OP,

There are places where PGMs are deposited in the United States. But not usually commercially viable. They are also recovered as impurities in operations where the main focus are other metals. Your post sounds like many other people who have posted here. It seems when someone finds a bit of dirt they believe nobody has scrutinized in the way they have that they come up with all manor of fantastic fantasies about untold riches in their dirt. But to be honest, it's almost always just dirt.

In the last few years, I have had several people contact me with samples of dirt. Almost always it's only dirt and even if PGMs are present they are in such small quantities that it's not viable to process, meaning the cost/benefit is not there and would incur more loss than profit. Yet, even when assayed properly using different techniques, even different types of ICP and all assays, even when pre-treated, turn out negative these same people so emotionally involved in their dirt, and their belief that there are untold riches involved in their dirt, will accuse the assayer, the processor, the refiner of lying, of stealing, of perhaps trying to find out where they dug up their dirt. Very seldom do people like you take the word of an assayer, or even better several assayers, after exhaustive assaying has been done.

If you are going about finding out what exactly is involved in your material, then you will get a proper assay done. You may want to read up on the different types of assays, as some are better for certain types of material, and others better for others. This in and of itself will take time, as you need to learn about other things as well prior to learning about the different types of assays and then understanding which might be best for your type of material. After you have conducted a elemental assay, you might even need to perform a mineral assay. But still, you don't even know enough to know which assay would be best or make sense.

Honestly, I am not sure why you think you are going to loose PGMs if you boil water, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You do also realize that you are using several different fallacies in attempting to reason that you have something of value. You should not use one thing to reason something else is true. Stating that people used to think the Earth was flat, and relating that to your material is a fallacy. People will automatically write you off as a crack pot if you attempt to argue you have values in this way.

You might want to consider this in regards to the color of your water. Iron is, I believe if I remember correctly, the third most common element on Earth. This being said, you can take almost any sample of dirt, add water and given enough time it will most likely turn a rusty color, this is because iron oxide is formed. Many times this is what gives dirt it's color. Now, for just a moment think about what you have suggested you have done up to this point. You added H2O2, or hydrogen peroxide. You can think of H2O2 as water, with an extra oxygen molecule. Oxygen oxidizes, or in the case of iron, turns iron from iron, to iron oxide. It's almost certain that the variations of the colors you are seeing in your water are anything but PGMs. Matter of fact, the most common elements will turn water the colors you see in your water bottles, but I'm sorry I do not see one that looks like a color I have seen in PGMs I have recovered. As a matter of fact, they all just look like iron to me.

If you truly wish to know what your material is, send it in for a proper assay. You are going to have to pay for this service, but in the end you will know if there are any values in your material, and if the cost/benefit of recovering those values is worth the effort. I imagine you are going to find out that the material is mostly iron, it's common. And most likely you will not prove any values, but even if you do they are most likely in such small amounts that it will not be worth the effort. If you do find you have recoverable values, and that the cost/benefit works in your favor, then you should get another assay done. I do see other problems however, the sample it seems that you have, is small. That will not be a good indicator as to what all the material will be. In order to get a good representative sample you will need to have a proper sampling done. That means tons of ore, sampled properly, milled, split, etc etc etc. Only after an analysis of this type can you be sure of anything.

You would be far more successful using a metal detector on old tailing piles.

Scott


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## justinhcase (Oct 6, 2015)

Some evidently find P.G.M.'s in the U.S.
There are even one or two enthusiast's that put quite a lot of effort into finding them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27fba3mXdjk
I like the story's about old 49er's throwing platinum nugget's back into the streams as no one knew what they where.
But Aphrodite My dear...
I applaud your enthusiasm and support your hole heated pursuit of life. 
Unfortunately such proclivity's may lead you into problem's if you apply them to the hunt for precious metal's with out a little restraint.
If you are serious about the subject you will now look to your self for answers,e.g. learn to pan I am not certain you understand the principle if you then start using vinegar and such.,it is one of the cheapest and productive method's still available(I use it and I have never been near a natural placer deposit.)follow the site's raison d'être,read Hoke, read Hoke ,read Hoke.
People will clamor to tell you if you go wrong but it save's time if you look at the map provided.
Good luck and I do hope you work hard and come back with a more cogent report on your work.


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## Aphrodite (Oct 11, 2015)

Thank you all for your honest assessments. They are appreciated.

We seem to have gotten a bit off topic, and there are too many posts for me to reply to all of them. I will just mention the points that concern what I believe that I have found. No disrespect intended to anyone. It takes me too long to copy, paste, and type. I have researched PGM's, because that is what I believe that I have found. I have not done much research on metallurgy, but I have done some reading of the Hokes PDF. Saying that I have researched nothing makes no sense, because obviously I learned about the PGM salts, and the color change to the water that led me to the possibility that I have found PGM's. I have shown that PGM's are sometimes found as a white powder, and I also have links in this thread showing some of my research. 

Johnson Matthey has a "Glossary of Terms," and this is the correct usage of the word "sponge" by their standards. 

Sponge:A powdered form of a pgm. "Commonly, the form required for manufacture of many pgm-based chemicals and catalysts."

I have already stated that I possibly have powdered PGM's, so I am unsure of what you are referring to.

Thanks to Lou! 
Stillwater Complex

Harold_V, I actually have found someone interested enough to help me find an Assayer. Hopefully I can get that done soon, but it is a new friend, so we'll see.  I understand that it may be something other than PGM's, so I am trying to research Assayers. I put in better search terms, and I actually found some this time. Hopefully I will find out the truth soon. It can be rather frustrating to not know. It was found with Chacopyrite which is a Copper indicator.

I also researched after adding Hydrogen Peroxide to some of the materials. I had about half a jar of the PM's with nuggets, and I added the peroxide. It immediately fizzed up, creating a violent reaction. The jar looked totally full as the silver powder and nuggets reacted to the peroxide. It cracked the bottom of the jar. 

Hi Scott, I was told *not* to boil the water because it might explode, and if it is PGM materials then there are dangerous fumes associated with doing this. {_I want to live, lol!_} Otherwise I would have boiled it months ago. I texted a person that has an Engineering degree, and I asked him what he thought might happen if I boiled it. His return message was, "boom." Since then I have let it dry in the sun, and collected the gummy sediment at the bottom of the bottles. It sparkles, but it can take weeks to dry. The water separates from the materials, but it remains wet. I found this to be strange. Some of it looks like silly putty, but it is more of a tan, gray, and pink color until it dries, then a lot of it turns white. Some stays tan/gray in color, but it all sparkles when it is dry. It does not always appear very fantastic until it dries, then is when it really sparkles, especially in the sun, and under fluorescent lighting. While breaking down the ore there was a pink powder that could possibly be Rhodium salts. This would also turn the water pink. 

Pink Rhodium Salts

Iridium also has colorful salts.
Iridium salts are many colors.

My tan/gray powder looks a lot like this. Palladium

and this, Platinum and Rhodium Catalyst, Rhodium Chloride



I understand that there is a possibility that it is something else. I just did not want PGM's to be discounted, because it is a possibility. I am actually trying to be helpful with what I have discovered in my research. I will not be heart-broken as long as some of the materials are returned to me if it turns out that they are not PGM's. Most of this powder is a beautiful white color. I am still going to try to take it to the Colorado School of Mines. They should know what it is. Wish me luck! 

Something else in my favor is that I have actually seen small gold nuggets in the mix. 


Thank you *all* for your time and consideration.
Respectfully and sincerely,
Aphrodite <3


The following links are more evidence that PGM's are found in the United States for those who still do not believe this.

PGM's have been found across the Pacific Coast. I had suggested that the Platinum metals were found in the black sands that you collect while panning for gold. It appears as a smudge on the bottom of the pan. Here is evidence that I just recently found showing that I am correct. 

Platinum metals were found in the black sands

Minerals found in Maine. PGM's found in Maine

If you scroll down you will find this, "platinum - Ashland(?), Dallas, Hermon, Rangeley, Salem(?), Union, Warren"

These are in PDF form, but worth noting. Statistics on PGM's being found in the U.S

Worldwide Statistics

Here is a picture of my PM's.


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## Lou (Oct 12, 2015)

Sounds like you need to learn to fire assay for PGMs.

Lou


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## Aphrodite (Oct 12, 2015)

Thank you, Lou! 

I agree! I am learning a lot, but it seems to be taking me in the wrong direction. I need to have my powders processed, and I have children here. I am also ill-equipped. I have a Propane torch, but that will not get hot enough. I tried smelting with an iron pan, and nothing changed at all. I was looking into Northern Refineries, because they do not charge for an Assay, but I really do not know _*how*_ to do any of this. 

I can use a pit, and charcoal, but would that get hot enough? You are one of the experts from what I have read. I do not want to do anything that would endanger anyone. Our clay soil actually catches on fire. I am not sure why it does, but it makes me hesitate to do a pit. I do have a hose if it gets out of hand though.

I know that I have a lot to learn. I just do not have the time, or equipment to proceed alone. That is why I joined this forum.

Any advice would be appreciated. I listen more than people know. I read, I research, and that is why I do not want to be mixing chemicals. I am not as graceful as I would like to be.  

Thank you for your time and consideration.
Respectfully and sincerely,
Aphrodite <3


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## Palladium (Oct 12, 2015)

This man here knows more about rocks than any man I know of I reckon.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5588


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## Anonymous (Oct 13, 2015)

Aphrodite

I hear what you are saying however you have to approach this in a real world manner rather than a "nice to have" manner. Experienced members across the board have pitched in to help but it seems that the issue is not the advice you have been given, rather that you don't believe the advice that has been given.

Out there in reality it costs money to get someone to tell you the real quantities of metals in any given ore or material unless of course you come to some arrangement. That arrangement could be a splitting of the claim, or a profit share, or any other type of mutually acceptable financial plan. Under those circumstances you would also be best advised to get more than one assay of the material you have, because anyone working with you on a profit share basis who provides the assay could have a hidden agenda couldn't they? Frankly an independent paid for assay could would out far cheaper in the long run. 

Excuse my bluntness here but you really need to do more than listen - you have to hear what people are saying to you because a lot if us have been here, done it, and worn the tee shirt. "Free" doesn't exist in reality unless you drop extremely lucky, and having everything pan out (no pun intended) in a way that meets all of your own initial stipulations is just as rare. 

Jon


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## g_axelsson (Oct 13, 2015)

- *Sponge* is man made material of mostly pure metals. Most often via calcining of platinum salts in ovens. Might be possible to make it via wet chemical methods but that's not my area of expertise.
- PGM:s are notorious hard to get into solution. There is no way that you can get the various PGM salts you are claiming from vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. Other metals may react and form different colored salts as iron or copper.
- Northern Refineries, I looked on their website and nowhere did it show anything about working with ores. They seem to only process scrap metal or carat gold. Then I understand that they can give a free assay (didn't see that written anywhere though), because that is a quick zap with their XRF after quickly melted your material in an induction oven. That is not the way to do an assay of ore.

There is an easy test of PGM:s in solution, stannous chloride. It will tell you if you got any precious metals in solution or not. Have you tested that?

Göran


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## Aphrodite (Oct 13, 2015)

Hi Palladium, Jon, and Göran,

Your responses are quite helpful. Thank you!

I do have a rock that needs identifying. Thank you Palladium for the link!

It seems that a few people do not understand my situation. I have taken more advice than you know. Obviously I have been researching Assayers, and Refineries. If I had not been doing this, then I would not have found one. I have mentioned time after time that I am not equipped to work with acids, and Göran is correct, it is not easy to work with PGM's. After Lou mentioned that I should learn to fire assay for PGM's. I researched it. I even learned how to make a gas furnace using a bucket, and insulation, but I do not have the money to put into this. I need to sell some of my materials to continue with this project no matter how you look at it. That is what I am trying to do. I mentioned in my previous post that I have found a friend that is willing to help me with this. Hopefully that works out.

It states right here that they will process, "Platinum or palladium powders and solutions," and "Platinum sponge."

Materials Processed

Northwest Refineries takes a portion of the profits instead of charging for an Assay. Because of this their payout is a lot less from what I have seen with other Refineries, but it may be worth it in the long run. I have to start somewhere. I could use the money, and any amount that I receive is more than I have now. I have plenty of Ore, and material. I also have figured out that I need to send my materials to more than one Refinery for accuracy. I can switch companies if I feel like one of them is taking advantage, and I will not hesitate to file complaints if I need to. I can get the Assays from different companies, so that I will understand if I am being "ripped off." The assays should be close, and without wide variations of the content. I understand that there is ultimately a "charge" for these services. 

Settlement

I stated that they do not "charge" for an Assay. I did not say that it was a "free" Assay, and it would be of the materials, not the ore. 
On this page they talk about taking some of the "gold" for assaying, and at the bottom of the page they state that they do not charge for refining. Their "Assay" is part of their refining process. Refining

The salts are already in the sediment. I did not get them from anything, but the ore. The pink salts are obvious, even when panning. My water turned pink. The weak acids have no effect on PGM's, all they do is soften the ore enough for me to crush it, that's all, and I have not used that much of it, because I do not like the odor. I crush the Ore down to a fine powder before panning it so that I can collect the micro metals in the sediment, then I collect it with my bulb syringe, and let it dry in the sun. Previously I had only collected the water with the sediment in it. The water takes months to dry, so I started separating it instead, it saves time. It also takes time for the water in my jars to settle and clear, sometimes days, sometimes a week. I then use a bulb syringe to extract the water, so that the sediment is left at the bottom to dry. I was using bottles, but a lot of material sticks to the sides, so now I use glass containers. Everything dries quicker this way, and I do not lose as much of my materials. The sediment is sticky and gummy, and even though the water separates from it, it still retains moisture. It starts out looking a light pink and tan/gray color, but changes as it dries to white or light gray with sparkles. Some of it only sparkles in the sun, or under a fluorescent light, but the metals can be seen under a magnifying glass either way.

Salts are heavier than liquids. I have been drying out some of the materials since July or August. (The materials in the water.) The sediment by itself dries quicker, but it still can take a week, or more, depending on how much is collected. That is where the salts are, and that is how I got my materials. It is a long process, which requires lots of patience. Very time consuming. The process took months to figure out, and perfect, but it works.

I have been working on all of this since the end of May. 


Thank you for your Interest, time, and consideration.
Respectfully and sincerely,
Aphrodite <3


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## patnor1011 (Oct 14, 2015)

It takes money to make more money. 

You do not know what you have unless properly assayed. How does someone sell something not knowing what they have? You think that you have something for sale, you do not know what it is or how much of it is there. Unless assayed what you want to sell is dream, hope or belief.

I once ran BGA which where I normally expect to get 5g/kg. Because that is what is supposed to be there. No matter how many times I went through that material, it was not there. I got about 1g. Sometimes hope is not enough to get paid.


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## NobleMetalWorks (Oct 19, 2015)

Aphrodite said:


> Thank you all for your honest assessments. They are appreciated.
> 
> We seem to have gotten a bit off topic, and there are too many posts for me to reply to all of them. I will just mention the points that concern what I believe that I have found. No disrespect intended to anyone. It takes me too long to copy, paste, and type. I have researched PGM's, because that is what I believe that I have found.]



Many people believe they have values in dirt, and most of the time they have nothing worth recovering. Right now I have several samples from different sources that all have pretty shiny silvery particles, but none of them assayed as having any values worth recovering. You might believe anything, but only proper assays will tell the truth. And as others have suggested it's best to have your material assayed by several assayers.



Aphrodite said:


> I have not done much research on metallurgy, but I have done some reading of the Hokes PDF. Saying that I have researched nothing makes no sense, because obviously I learned about the PGM salts, and the color change to the water that led me to the possibility that I have found PGM's.



If "water" you have added to your sample, turns color, this does not mean you have PGM's. In order to realize any color in a solution that contains PGMs, you must first be able to dissolve PGMs into a solution, which is not nearly as easy as it might seem. So the color of your solutions, mean nothing at all. This is to say that if you have metallic PGMs as you continue to insist by describing the shiny particles in your material, then you would have to dissolve that metal into solution before the solution would be colored in any way that would lead you to believe you have PGMs in solution. You would do well, after you have learned enough to do so, performing familiarity tests so you know exactly what it is you are talking about. If you plan on doing any refining yourself, you would also do well to precipitate PGMs as salts, to keep on hand as samples so that you know what they actually look like.

You also seem to think that just because you add H2O2 to a solution and it fizzes, that this means you have Platinum. This is NOT the case. Put 3% H2O2 on a cut or scrape and watch it fizz. H2O2 will fizz when introduced to many different minerals, and considering that dirt almost anywhere has many different minerals, your test with H2O2 means nothing, zilch, nada. If you were going to test for Platinum with H2O2, and have already removed all other possible containment with the exception of other PGMs, this is probably how you would do it.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aESn8vBZWt8[/youtube]



Aphrodite said:


> I have shown that PGM's are sometimes found as a white powder, and I also have links in this thread showing some of my research.



Do you also realize that Tin, Lead and many other metals also produce salts under the right conditions that are white in color? As a matter of fact, Tin Oxide is shockingly white.



Aphrodite said:


> Johnson Matthey has a "Glossary of Terms," and this is the correct usage of the word "sponge" by their standards.
> 
> Sponge:A powdered form of a pgm. "Commonly, the form required for manufacture of many pgm-based chemicals and catalysts."



You are taking what has been stated by Johnson Matthey out of context. If you really understood what the term meant, you would realize that when a metal like Platinum is called "sponge" it means it has been dissolved, and precipitated from a solution. Consider this:

"Platinum dissolves in aqua regia, and other platinum metals do not. Platinum metal can then be removed from the aqua regia in a form known as platinum sponge. Platinum sponge is a sponge-like material of black platinum powder. Finally, the powder is heated to very high temperatures and melted to produce the pure metal.

Read more: http://www.chemistryexplained.com/elements/L-P/Platinum.html#ixzz3ozCvxpIF"

Please use the term correctly so as to avoid confusion. When we talk about "Platinum Sponge" we are expressing platinum that has been precipitated from an acid solution.



Aphrodite said:


> I have already stated that I possibly have powdered PGM's, so I am unsure of what you are referring to.
> 
> 
> Thanks to Lou!
> Stillwater Complex





Aphrodite said:


> Harold_V, I actually have found someone interested enough to help me find an Assayer. Hopefully I can get that done soon, but it is a new friend, so we'll see.  I understand that it may be something other than PGM's, so I am trying to research Assayers. I put in better search terms, and I actually found some this time. Hopefully I will find out the truth soon. It can be rather frustrating to not know. It was found with Chacopyrite which is a Copper indicator.
> 
> I also researched after adding Hydrogen Peroxide to some of the materials. I had about half a jar of the PM's with nuggets, and I added the peroxide. It immediately fizzed up, creating a violent reaction. The jar looked totally full as the silver powder and nuggets reacted to the peroxide. It cracked the bottom of the jar.



The Hydrogen Peroxide or H2O2 could be reacting to any number of things. It is NOT an indication, unless you have already removed all other possible minerals and/or metals that could also cause fizzing. Fizzing means nothing when you add H2O2 to a sample of material that you have no idea what it contains.



Aphrodite said:


> Hi Scott, I was told *not* to boil the water because it might explode, and if it is PGM materials then there are dangerous fumes associated with doing this. {_I want to live, lol!_} Otherwise I would have boiled it months ago. I texted a person that has an Engineering degree, and I asked him what he thought might happen if I boiled it. His return message was, "boom." Since then I have let it dry in the sun, and collected the gummy sediment at the bottom of the bottles. It sparkles, but it can take weeks to dry. The water separates from the materials, but it remains wet. I found this to be strange. Some of it looks like silly putty, but it is more of a tan, gray, and pink color until it dries, then a lot of it turns white. Some stays tan/gray in color, but it all sparkles when it is dry. It does not always appear very fantastic until it dries, then is when it really sparkles, especially in the sun, and under fluorescent lighting. While breaking down the ore there was a pink powder that could possibly be Rhodium salts. This would also turn the water pink.
> 
> Pink Rhodium Salts



Rhodium, so far as I understand and know, does not occur naturally in it's "salt" form. As a matter of fact, naturally occurring rhodium consists of its one stable isotope, 103Rh.

http://www.chemicool.com/elements/rhodium.html



Aphrodite said:


> Iridium also has colorful salts.
> Iridium salts are many colors.
> 
> My tan/gray powder looks a lot like this. Palladium
> ...




Yes, Iridium has many different salts associated with it. 34 to be exact. Yet once again naturally occurring iridium is a mixture of two isotopes: 191Ir and 193Ir with natural abundances of 37.3% and 62.7% respectively. Which means you are not going to find naturally occurring Iridium salts that will color your water.

http://www.chemicool.com/elements/iridium.html



Aphrodite said:


> I understand that there is a possibility that it is something else. I just did not want PGM's to be discounted, because it is a possibility. I am actually trying to be helpful with what I have discovered in my research. I will not be heart-broken as long as some of the materials are returned to me if it turns out that they are not PGM's. Most of this powder is a beautiful white color. I am still going to try to take it to the Colorado School of Mines. They should know what it is. Wish me luck!



If you really, truly, honestly believe your material has any values in it other than free gold (free gold meaning nuggets) then you should have it properly assayed. However, you might want to express what you are talking about differently. It's not that there is a possibility that it might be something other than what you want to believe it is. It is almost certain it is NOT a possibility. The likely outcome is that your material has no PGMs at all, or no PGMs in recoverable quantities. Be aware of this prior to sending your material off for assay, and consider this when reviewing what an assay will cost you.



Aphrodite said:


> Something else in my favor is that I have actually seen small gold nuggets in the mix.



If you have actually found and not just seen small gold nuggets in your mix, that is in your favor so far as the value of gold is concerned. But so far as PGMs are concerned that is probably NOT in your favor. Platinum is most often found with Copper and Nickel, although it is a byproduct of other PMs, it takes a lot of processing to accumulate anything of value. There are really only a few places in the United States where Platinum is found in any quantity. That would be the Stillwater Complex of Montana, and as a by product of copper mining in Texas and Utah.



Aphrodite said:


> Thank you *all* for your time and consideration.
> Respectfully and sincerely,
> Aphrodite <3






Aphrodite said:


> The following links are more evidence that PGM's are found in the United States for those who still do not believe this.
> 
> PGM's have been found across the Pacific Coast. I had suggested that the Platinum metals were found in the black sands that you collect while panning for gold. It appears as a smudge on the bottom of the pan. Here is evidence that I just recently found showing that I am correct.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, but when you say "Here is a picture of my PMs" do you understand that PM stands for Precious Metals, and that Precious Metals refer to silver, gold and PGMs? If that was a picture of your PMs, then you would already be rolling in financial bliss, and able to afford proper assays. You would probably hire the talent you needed and would be looking to either expand your operation, or looking to sell out. That is a picture of the material left over from playing around with it, without understanding what you are doing, that is not a picture of your PMs.

Scott


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## NobleMetalWorks (Oct 19, 2015)

Aphrodite said:


> Hi Palladium, Jon, and Göran,
> 
> Your responses are quite helpful. Thank you!
> 
> ...



Prior to spending any money on any equipment, or learning how to fire assay, you should have your material assayed by a professional. PERIOD. To properly assay you need a few things that do cost money, and then you need to be able to practice until you understand how to properly conduct a fire assay. Specially if you are assaying for Pt.



Aphrodite said:


> It states right here that they will process, "Platinum or palladium powders and solutions," and "Platinum sponge."
> 
> Materials Processed
> 
> ...



This is the problem when someone like you comes to this forum, and refuses to listen to explanations and/or logic. Read what you posted, specially this "Platinum or Palladium powders and solutions and "Platinum sponge". Fact is, you cannot have "Platinum sponge" because you did not dissolve Platinum into an acid solution, and then precipitate it. You have an unknown material, with unknown components that have not ever been assayed. Do you understand? Northern Refineries are not going to process your ore based on what you believe it might contain. They will not process your ore or concentrates unless you know for CERTAIN that there are PGMs involved, and even at that, they will most likely want an assay of some sort. It's different when you are sending Pd or Pt powders, solutions or sponge. All of those are NOT naturally occurring, except perhaps if you accumulated powder as fine metallic grain that was recovered from a major mining operation.



Aphrodite said:


> I stated that they do not "charge" for an Assay. I did not say that it was a "free" Assay, and it would be of the materials, not the ore.
> On this page they talk about taking some of the "gold" for assaying, and at the bottom of the page they state that they do not charge for refining. Their "Assay" is part of their refining process. Refining
> 
> The salts are already in the sediment. I did not get them from anything, but the ore. The pink salts are obvious, even when panning. My water turned pink. The weak acids have no effect on PGM's, all they do is soften the ore enough for me to crush it, that's all, and I have not used that much of it, because I do not like the odor. I crush the Ore down to a fine powder before panning it so that I can collect the micro metals in the sediment, then I collect it with my bulb syringe, and let it dry in the sun. Previously I had only collected the water with the sediment in it. The water takes months to dry, so I started separating it instead, it saves time. It also takes time for the water in my jars to settle and clear, sometimes days, sometimes a week. I then use a bulb syringe to extract the water, so that the sediment is left at the bottom to dry. I was using bottles, but a lot of material sticks to the sides, so now I use glass containers. Everything dries quicker this way, and I do not lose as much of my materials. The sediment is sticky and gummy, and even though the water separates from it, it still retains moisture. It starts out looking a light pink and tan/gray color, but changes as it dries to white or light gray with sparkles. Some of it only sparkles in the sun, or under a fluorescent light, but the metals can be seen under a magnifying glass either way.



You do not have any PGM "salts" in your sediment as you have not dissolved, nor precipitated any metal from an acidic solution. Stop using these terms incorrectly, it confuses what exactly it is you are doing. When I see the word "salt" on this forum, I immediately think of metals that have been precipitated from a solution, and require conversion to their metallic forms. Using these terms incorrectly will cause others to understand what you are communicating in the wrong way. You may have other types of mineral salts, but not PGM salts.



Aphrodite said:


> Salts are heavier than liquids. I have been drying out some of the materials since July or August. (The materials in the water.) The sediment by itself dries quicker, but it still can take a week, or more, depending on how much is collected. That is where the salts are, and that is how I got my materials. It is a long process, which requires lots of patience. Very time consuming. The process took months to figure out, and perfect, but it works.
> 
> I have been working on all of this since the end of May.
> 
> ...



If you have been working on this since May, and have yet to recover any values, there is something seriously wrong about the way you are going about this. If you really have gold "nuggets" as you have suggested, then you should recover those values right away as it would be very easy to do. Use THAT money to fund a proper assay so you know exactly what your material has in it. This would be the proper way of "bootstrapping" your efforts and can be done right away if what you have lead us to believe is true.

Scott


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## justinhcase (Oct 19, 2015)

It would be interesting to find out what kind of land we are talking about.
If you can not afford any of the most basic need's for research how have you come into the ownership of mineral right's?
What is your personal position?have you a home that is isolated or some other way of life?
You sound to have maturity but such thing's are hard to gauge at a distance.
The dirt is less than half the story I have found.


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## jphayesjr (May 1, 2022)

jadesource said:


> I have found both Platinum, Rhodium and Palladium. In Washington, the palladium in payable quanities.


I found a 20 g Rh-Au nugget last year, and yes, refined and the buttons were most gratifying. 90% was metal in a 4 to 2 proportion. The gold mostly was in the matrix, some had alloyed with the Rh, with other PGM minor percentage content, some Ag, Fe, Al. the Rh in a lump with protruding disk or fin shaped projections. I also found a 4 lb agglomeration of Rh-Pd-Pt-Au-Ag with small traces of cobalt, Fe, Ar, Fe. The PGMs are out there waiting to be found, just not as ubiquitously in the form of gold and silver nuggets. This lump of metals and rock has 3 cm "flower petal" clusters, and is shockingly cool to the touch, and massive. And, yes, lots of sparkly. Don't be discouraged, do perform real research.


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## jphayesjr (May 1, 2022)

jphayesjr said:


> I found a 20 g Rh-Au nugget last year, and yes, refined and the buttons were most gratifying. 90% was metal in a 4 to 2 proportion. The gold mostly was in the matrix, some had alloyed with the Rh, with other PGM minor percentage content, some Ag, Fe, Al. the Rh in a lump with protruding disk or fin shaped projections. I also found a 4 lb agglomeration of Rh-Pd-Pt-Au-Ag with small traces of cobalt, Fe, Ar, Fe. The PGMs are out there waiting to be found, just not as ubiquitously in the form of gold and silver nuggets. This lump of metals and rock has 3 cm "flower petal" clusters, and is shockingly cool to the touch, and massive. And, yes, lots of sparkly. Don't be discouraged, do perform real research.


If you're aiming at commercial production and have an accepted claim to the mineral rights, which, in the USA is not automatically obtained when you purchase land, pay for professional assays from disinterested ethical professionals. Otherwise, read the classics such as Hoke, also become familiar with Beilstein's Manuals, look at Youtube projects members suggest in this Forum, and keep an open mind about how you can assay and extract and concentrate using methods newer than the 1890s and 1940s. There are newer technologies, in many ways, faster, safer, more efficient. Be sure to use PPE-- PGMs are highly toxic, so are chemicals used in refining and testing. Hope you realize your dream.


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## Yggdrasil (May 1, 2022)

jphayesjr said:


> I found a 20 g Rh-Au nugget last year, and yes, refined and the buttons were most gratifying. 90% was metal in a 4 to 2 proportion. The gold mostly was in the matrix, some had alloyed with the Rh, with other PGM minor percentage content, some Ag, Fe, Al. the Rh in a lump with protruding disk or fin shaped projections. I also found a 4 lb agglomeration of Rh-Pd-Pt-Au-Ag with small traces of cobalt, Fe, Ar, Fe. The PGMs are out there waiting to be found, just not as ubiquitously in the form of gold and silver nuggets. This lump of metals and rock has 3 cm "flower petal" clusters, and is shockingly cool to the touch, and massive. And, yes, lots of sparkly. Don't be discouraged, do perform real research.


I think the natural Gold Rhodium alloy is called Rhodite. It is very rare and would probably payed much more as it was, due to that fact.


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## jphayesjr (May 2, 2022)

Yggdrasil said:


> I think the natural Gold Rhodium alloy is called Rhodite. It is very rare and would probably payed much more as it was, due to that fact.


Given the fact it was so heavily weathered, it did not appraise out as a collectable. Had I desired to sell it and my rights to the area, then sure, tons of cash, but a pittance compared to the ultimate values obtainable. I am eager to find more like the one I just found last week. Will post a photo of last week's find soon. Hopefully, subsequent finds will be in a condition such as you mention. Yes, rhodite aka rhodian gold. Excellent call, Minedat.org has good page.


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## Yggdrasil (May 2, 2022)

Depends completely on looks and not weathering. 
All the surrounding "craps"can be dissolved.


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