# Confused how to best remove THIS



## jonrms (Oct 25, 2017)

Help. I am a bit puzzled. Quite a bit if gold in the CPU on from my old Honda st1100 motorcycle. But it's not accessible and a pain. It's a gel of some sort???? Anyone come across this before. It's very protected.


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## jonrms (Oct 25, 2017)

Another picture


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## jimdoc (Oct 25, 2017)

A lot of car computer boards are covered like that. Throw them in a pile while you study the forum, and look for easier material to work with.


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## anachronism (Oct 25, 2017)

What Jim said. 8)


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## snoman701 (Oct 25, 2017)

That potting compound isn't coming out without a fight. A messy struggle that isn't worth the payout. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kernels (Oct 25, 2017)

Yep, as above, a couple of flat pack chips like that are not worth spending 10 minutes of hassle on.


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## jonrms (Oct 26, 2017)

jimdoc said:


> A lot of car computer boards are covered like that. Throw them in a pile while you study the forum, and look for easier material to work with.




Can you point me in a direction of where to look roughly. I have been searching and I wouldn't have taken the time or energy to snap multiple photos and ask for help. I will continue to search but give me a category at least to look in please. I plan on using a soldering iron with a mask and goggles to see if it Will melt out. I will try it on a piece that I dug out first in case it turns into a sticky muck pile


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## anachronism (Oct 26, 2017)

Jon

The guys are steering you straight here. There's not enough gold in there to warrant the time you spend taking it out. Everybody on this forum has been through exactly the same dilemma you have with this kit. Try to learn from their experience. Alternatively feel free to waste a load of time and ultimately come to the same conclusion. The waste of time is what we are trying to save you. Time that could be better spent elsewhere.


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## nickvc (Oct 26, 2017)

The amateur or home refiner has to cherry pick what materials are worth their time and trouble, even larger companies pass on certain materials due to the cost and or time to recover the values.
Much if not most e scrap ends up in the hands of copper refineries where the values are a bonus, some material just can’t be processed by any other means economically.
With the spread of computerized components there are values in many many items from cars to phones but the trick for the amateur is knowing which items are worth their time and effort to recover, many of the guys on the forum have been doing this successfully for years and have been where you are now, they are not trying to put you off the idea of becoming a refiner but pointing out what’s a waste of time and effort.
With low grade boards and scrap just find a good storage area and save it, you can find buyers for it so sell it and use the money to buy better material and look for material that you can successfully process at a profit.


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## jonrms (Oct 26, 2017)

Well looks like I might be able to prove it's easier than you all thought. I made a video but am expecting egg on my face if it goes PEAR shape. But if this first method fails I have one more but that is in the video. I am not going to waste my time but and it's a BIG BUT!. If this works I guarantee that others will follow. Watch this space. Then I will let the Chemistry nerds explain. Lol. 
Yes I tested this method in something else and it worked but never like this. So you will have to wait until I finish with my experiment. But if these fail I will concede and scrap it


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## niks neims (Oct 27, 2017)

jonrms said:


> Well looks like I might be able to prove it's easier than you all thought




Just please don`t burn it!

Granted, I am a noob, so maybe other guys could weigh in on this - but could your material be Polyurethane resin of some sort? in wikipedia it is said that Hydrogen cyanide may be produced in the combustion of polyurethanes... how common are Polyurethane resins in electronics?


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## jonrms (Oct 27, 2017)

I decided to soak it over night in wd40. Yes that's right I did say wd40. It has worked a bit but not perfect. I removed those screws you seen. However what appeared to be gold is not!  there is also another board under it but the wd40 only managed to get the top surface in a jello state. I can try acetone which is my next idea. I use this for pen moulds so I am interested if it Will work. 

First NERD question why did WD40 work? 

Second is Acetone ... thoughts? 

I am doing this out of principle but not as a viable option. It's s pain in the back side but I don't give up.


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## jimdoc (Oct 27, 2017)

You are using more money in chemicals than any precious metals are worth. 
Hope your having fun.


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## jonrms (Oct 29, 2017)

I had fun. I took everyone's advice but I 2anted to do a video in it as there wasn't one. I did and posted it in images section. It was fun but overall as mentioned above not worth it. I knew that much but I don't give up. I never have in anything I have dine in life so far. I have a broken back and can't do a heck of alot. Ie walking lifting etc. I keep on going and do things at my own pace. I have loads if my old phones that me and my wife just pulled out if the loft. I also found plenty if old contacts for tv's etc that are gold plated. I don't mind that time. I am breaking apart some old watches too. I have over 30 kilos of gold to process now but as yet u am still building up. I have some that I put in bar form just because I wanted to store it in a smaller area. I have ALOT to do. Building my lab is high on that list now. Alot of easy methods. I will post videos and pictures. I do have a helper who is a chemist to ensure that I don't harm myself whilst I do this. I decided to get into this because I can leave it and not rush. Most processes don't take more than 30 minutes if you needing to sit down and monitor it. Anyway I can do all these things in stages.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Oct 29, 2017)

Sure, everything looks easy on YouTube


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## FrugalRefiner (Oct 29, 2017)

Jon, not giving up is an admirable trait. Just be aware that there are all sorts of toxic nasties in just about any electronic components. While they are relatively safe as they are packaged, as soon as you start any process, you can release them into more dangerous forms.

Consider something as harmless as electrical contacts. They are totally safe as contacts. But many contain cadmium as part of the silver alloy and/or as part of the solder used to hold them on the bus bar. A process as simple as heating them to melt the solder and separate the contacts from the bus bars can release deadly cadmium fumes.

Gold plated brass pins are also harmless. But once you start dissolving them with HCl or vinegar, you create solutions containing ionic copper, a very toxic substance. Copper acetate is a permeator, meaning if you get a drop on your skin, it starts to be absorbed into your body and it can carry other toxic substances with it. Copper chloride is poisonous to almost every form of life.

My point is that it's OK to experiment as long as you study every process you plan to try, understand all possible risks, and do everything you can to minimize them. Hoke's book recommends such experimentation in her getting acquainted exercises, but under controlled conditions. We have lost several good members over the years because of the toxic nature of what we do. We don't want to lose any more.

If you haven't done so already, take a read through the Why Can't I Ask a Simple Question and get a Simple Answer? thread. They are real life experiences of some of our members, some with years of experience under their belts.

Keep gathering scrap. Keep studying. Keep experimenting, but it's best to learn from the mistakes of others rather than repeating them yourself.

Stay safe in everything you do,
Dave


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## Topher_osAUrus (Oct 29, 2017)

FrugalRefiner said:


> Keep gathering scrap. Keep studying. Keep experimenting, but it's best to learn from the mistakes of others rather than repeating them yourself



That paragraph is ripe with wisdom.


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## jonrms (Oct 31, 2017)

Thank you Dave.

My reply will be much shorter but I do take precautions. Those videos are me shooting the WD40 breakdown of that gel. No heat or anything was applied. Just time and I use WD40 on a regular basis so I didn't fear anything. 

As far as collecting I am and will continue to. I am building a fume hood and safe area for dispersing of nox chemicals and also setting up a area for extraction of silver then Cooper. Why waste? 

I already have a first aide station set up ( expected as a retired Paramedic) 

I am trying to ensure what ever waste I have will be earth friendly. And right now gathering information on chemicals ratio. Ie for poor man's aqua Regia.. how much Sodium Nitrite to HCL. Which filters are best. How much gold should I use in a container? Etc. I am going through all the information to see what is best. How not to waste chemicals and then how to extract others. Ie silver requires copper etc. I am not sure if I will refine the platinum or pladdium or rhodium.. Which some of my items have due to the tempatures required. My furnace only goes so high. 

Safety. I love this site! SERIOUS.. I am a preacher for doing things safely. Seen far too many accidents in my career


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## nickvc (Oct 31, 2017)

Jon if you have PGMs then if you can do not dissolve them as the salts of all of them are a serious hazard to health, if you are running e scrap then you may well encounter some but always wear gloves and work under a hood and simply cement any PGMs from your solution with copper and store the powder for a later melt and assay, I’m sure you are now becoming aware that much of what we work with and produce can be toxic so read and learn about not just the way to refine but how to do so safely.


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## jonrms (Oct 31, 2017)

Nick, thank you again. I do and have understood the RISKS. But I can still pick up more information. I am not ready to start the processing... hence joining first. I have been collecting gold and silver for along time. I now am building the lab. I have bought supply some chemicals only due to reading over and over. I also have safe storages built with vents. The sodium nitrate is this.


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## anachronism (Oct 31, 2017)

The Sodium Nitrate appears to be Sodium Nitrite.


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## Topher_osAUrus (Oct 31, 2017)

Yeah, wont be making much poorman ar with nitrite, the suffix is pretty critical.

No worries though, use the nitrite to precipitate the gold, get some nitrate to dissolve it.


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## jonrms (Oct 31, 2017)

This won't be my first mess up in lettering. I have Hcl. 36% . As I mentioned I am buying the chemicals and building the lab. Not purifying anything yet. But I thought HCL and Sodium Nitrate = poor man's aqua Regia. In fact almost any nitrates work??? Or has my chemistry gone totally haywire well this is going on the shelve


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## jonrms (Oct 31, 2017)

Damn one letter again A not I


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## jonrms (Oct 31, 2017)

Ok so looking through the list I find that Sodium NitrAte is 10 times more expensive than potassium Nitrate.


I am steering clear of Amonia nitrate for obvious reasons. Open to suggestions. £100 per kilo vrs £14 per kilo??


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## Topher_osAUrus (Oct 31, 2017)

Uh, thats quite the hefty pricetag for a simple fertilizer found most everywhere..

I just buy nitrate of soda,by hi-yield (they also sell copperas, and potassium nitrate [-stump killer]), recrystalize it, and Im good to go.
KNO3 works fine too. It is sold as spectracide stump remover.
SMB can also be sold as stump remover, except under the brand name bonide. MSDS are your best friend, er, SDS now (I guess)

Also, these names are only good for people in the US and Canadia. Across the pond, no idear.


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## nickvc (Nov 1, 2017)

As an aside it’s amazing you can’t buy nitric acid easily as it’s so dangerous and potentially a bomb making ingredient but the nitrates which are even easier to be stupid with you can get in most stores...


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## jonrms (Nov 1, 2017)

Oh please don't get me started. I understand why they removed some chemicals but honestly it's stupid. If you want to do a stupid act as mentioned above you don't need to be a rocket scientist. You can buy all everything you need in a supermarket or even make it... 

Anyway. Potassium nitrate should be just as good.


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## jonrms (Nov 1, 2017)

Obstacles. But I will prevail. I just noticed any nitrate a pain in the UK as well. ??? Hold on it mentions acetone. Damn I am in trouble then. I use that with fibreglass resin and a few other probably now illegal or highly restricted things. Joyful. 


I looked up stump removal as mentioned. Finding one in the UK is not too difficult and crystalizing it is easy. But how ling do you normally wait to before you filter it? 

And what to look for. The one I seen is potassium Nitrate. UK


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## anachronism (Nov 1, 2017)

You'll struggle to get nitrates too because they are also classed as a precursor.


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## jonrms (Nov 1, 2017)

I know I just said that. Hence going down the road if stump removal. The one I am looking at contains potassium Nitrate. So I can crystallize it. Alts.. But I prefer not to use is HCL PEROXIDE heat


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## jonrms (Nov 1, 2017)

Just found where I can legally buy potassium Nitrate. Yes I got it right. Nitrate. UK

Legally and they said my use is justified.


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## anachronism (Nov 1, 2017)

Good for you, it's not impossible it's just not made easy for people.


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## jonrms (Nov 1, 2017)

I sent you a PM with my mobile number bud. But I talked to my friend (the chemist) who is coming over tomorrow. I advised him of my chemicals required and he is worried....  OK time to hit the brakes.... I am all for safety.... so I am and had NO plans to do it without him anyway.... 


His main concern is the use of Potassium Nitrate... Which I obtained. And that I have 36% HCL. 

Now I know I can produce from this and with my 12% Hydrogen Peroxide with processing Nitric Acid... BUT I don't and WONT do this... 

My understanding was to use the Potassium Nitrate with HCL and start making "P.AR" But he rightly worried about what chemical reaction would occur... And worried about potential explosion :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Ok So now he has my attention even more. We work great as a team and he knows this is a hobby for me. Until today I have been gathering scrap gold and putting it into hoards of piles..... and then also lab equipment. Vents, Glass tops, bottoms etc. But since I havnt mentioned to him my buying spree of chemicals he suddenly thought I was going to be a JOE blogs and do it on my own. I advised him HECK no and I am searching around and doing a lot of research about the Potassium Nitrate. 

I was under the impression ( which is always a wise thing to check as I am doing before doing ANYTHING) that to make Poor mans AR or P.AR you add a nitrate and Hydrochloric acid... But this is a acid and a base//// not a Acid and a Acid. So We are going to do a major Chemistry lesson so to speak tomorrow. He works with this and a heck of a lot more toxic things than I will ever get my hands on... But as pointed out he knows the dangers as do I of when it goes wrong it goes wrong fast! So I have been forbidden to buy anything until I have a further lesson. He is going to bring with him some type of sheet that he will make tonight. Joyfull. I am being schooled. But better safe than sorry.


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## goldsilverpro (Nov 1, 2017)

It is not a base. It is a salt. A Potassium Nitrate solution has a pH of about 6.2. Very slightly acidic.


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## jonrms (Nov 1, 2017)

I just looked on the chart... it doesn't say acidic at all. I bought 6KG of this in 99.3% KNO3, may contain anticaking agent.



The only warning is for fire. Obvious. but some will use it for other illegal things.


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## john coulter (Nov 4, 2017)

hi First time I ever contributed to GRF
the sealed automotive box some have a hard resin in them others a soft sticky gel Yamaha outboards use what looks like a type of polysulfide with grit in it just to make sure you cant get in to fix it
no idea of PM content but put some hard and soft ones in my pyrolysis oven for 1 hour at 420C. worked a treat
the insides were ash including the PCB everything fell out leaving me nice clean ally and number 2 burnt copper from the wiring loom.
so far so good PROFIT and still have the metals from the PCB to sort out.
On the down side I have found that anything I cook in the pyrolysis oven comes out covered in ash if this is left on it draws moisture out of the air overnight turns sticky then needs washing in water otherwise beads of blue
acid/liquid appear and quickly eat away at the metals ( I cooked 300kg of fairy lights not a single strand of copper left after a week normally 75kg if washed same day ) I am new to all this and no chemist but did read that pvc is made with 52% salt that creates the acid ? 
so I am sorry to disagree with the others and think these boxes are well worth looking at as long as you can control the emissions from the pyrolysis some of the boards I have seen look really rich also found satellite dish heads are sometimes sealed in the same way


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