# Too much Peroxide



## sagar96 (Nov 24, 2015)

I did a 1:1 peroxide/HCl mix due to its what I saw people on youtube use. Is gold gonna go into solution, if so, how do I get it out? Its been about 12 hours and the solution went from green to black


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## Anonymous (Nov 24, 2015)

If you've been a member here for nearly two years I would have to respectfully ask why you followed a youtube video given all the information here. 

I'd do some homework on the search button on the site and find the information.


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## jeneje (Nov 24, 2015)

Adding too much H2O2 will cause some of the gold to go into solution. As you continue to use the solution and it gets saturated with copper and / or base metals any gold that dissolved will be pushed back out of the solution as a black powder.

Ken


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## nickton (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm on my second reading of Hoke's book and can't seem to find much about AP solution proportions either. I think she says using Nitric acid is the only way to completely dissolve copper and is thus better to use than acid peroxide, though I may be wrong here. I didn't realize too much peroxide would put gold into solution, or that it eventually precipitates as black powder. Very interesting. I have attempted the AP and bleach refining method a few times now and have not succeeded in getting a gold button, but I am a hack I know and need to learn more, so I am hesitating to try it again. It does seem to me that youtube videos and on line website info is the only way for an ignoramus like me to learn, without investing in hard to find NItric acid. Sorry for being such a newbie. :mrgreen:


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## FrugalRefiner (Aug 24, 2016)

Welcome to the forum! I see you've been here a while before asking questions, and we appreciate your effort. You're at the stage in your studies where things are blending together and it can get quite confusing.



nickton said:


> I'm on my second reading of Hoke's book and can't seem to find much about AP solution proportions either. I think she says using Nitric acid is the only way to completely dissolve copper and is thus better to use than acid peroxide, though I may be wrong here. I didn't realize too much peroxide would put gold into solution, or that it eventually precipitates as black powder. Very interesting.


Hoke doesn't discuss AP at all. It's a "workaround" method pioneered here on the forum by Lazersteve. Nitric acid was inexpensive and readily available in Hoke's day. Now, it's expensive and difficult to obtain for many. AP will dissolve copper, but it is slower than nitric.



> I have attempted the AP and bleach refining method a few times now and have not succeeded in getting a gold button, but I am a hack I know and need to learn more, so I am hesitating to try it again.


There is no such thing as AP and bleach. AP is a combination of HCl and hydrogen peroxide (Acid and Peroxide = AP). We do use HCl and bleach to dissolve gold, but peroxide isn't used in the process. This is another workaround method, with the bleach replacing nitric acid as the oxidizer.



> It does seem to me that youtube videos and on line website info is the only way for an ignoramus like me to learn, without investing in hard to find NItric acid. Sorry for being such a newbie. :mrgreen:


While there are some good youtube videos (most made by members of this forum), they are outnumbered by poor ones that can put you in harms way. The best way to learn this craft is by studying Hoke's book, this forum, and the sites of some of our members.

Best of luck,
Dave


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## anachronism (Aug 24, 2016)

Nick

There's no harm in being a newbie. I started out that way as did every single person on this site. 

If you throw an oxidiser into an HCl solution with gold present then you run the risk of dissolving gold. It's the Chlorine ions that bond with the gold and the oxidiser that facilitates that reaction. 

All is not lost though! Can I ask please what concentration of peroxide you used in your mix as that will be a good indicator as to what really happened. Also can you share what your base material is and have you tested your solution to ascertain if there is gold in it?


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## nickton (Nov 5, 2016)

sorry about my wording there. By peroxide bleach method I meant that after using acid peroxide, I tried a muriatic/bleach mix to put gold into solution, which seemed successful according to the stannous chloride I made out of hcl and tin bearing solder (I have to make some more now), which turned dark. The problem I have is in melting down whatever powder I end up with, which I'm sure contains some gold, but appears to be too mixed with other materials and so makes a mess. I'm reading a lot more and collecting more material for my next attempt. I think sulfuric acid will help cement out lead for one thing. I also saved my failures so far… I could go on about my other misadventures, but it seems best to listen now. I want to try reverse electroplating next, since I have so much plated metal material accumulated.


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## nickvc (Nov 5, 2016)

The best material for you to work with to start is fingers, these can be first processed in your AP, the foils and any powders collected and then dissolved in either HCl and bleach or HCl and peroxide, once the values are dissolved you need to filter it before precipitating with the precipitant of choice.
The sulphuric cell works well with some materials but it is extremely dangerous as the sulphuric has to be around 95% and that is one very hazardous acid, read the safety section and take appropriate safety measures.
You will learn this if you read and study, forget watching videos unless as Dave said they are posted by the trusted members of the forum, visit Sam,s site gold n scrap I believe and there are some good videos on Lazersteves site but you really need to read so you can follow what is been discussed and filmed.
Good luck and keep reading the forum covers virtually all processes and they are fully discussed.


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## pokermandown (Nov 30, 2016)

I am a newbie poster, but I have been refining e-waste for over a year with mostly success. I have read a considerable percentage of GRF and Hoke is my new bible.

When I first started using AP I would add a quart of H2O2 to the gold fingers and then slowly add acid to the solution thinking that H2O2 is a essentially a more reactive form of water and you never add water to acid. I didn't realize at the time that it was turning the ratio completely upside down and dissolving gold. I did save all of the CuCl2 that I used when the yields were far less than expected. I knew that there was some gold in solution, but I didn't know what to do, so I saved it in a bucket and started over on each new batch because I didn't want to lose the gold. I tried several different ways to start the AP and finally figured out it was because I was mixing with the gold fingers already in place. Now I have stable CuCl2 and many stannous checks later, it still says all is good. 

Here is my Question: I have about 4.5 gallons of AP that has just a little gold in solution (a faint purple stain.) I can dissolve pounds and pounds of copper to push the gold out of solution as black powder, or I can concentrate it down with a heater but that would take days and days of electricity. Is there a better option?


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## nickvc (Nov 30, 2016)

If you have more scrap to process I would use the solution in small quantities to kick start your new AP solutions this will recover your gold and use up your chemicals the most efficient way, failing the flow of scrap simply add lye to about 75% of the solution and then filter and add the remaining solution to the filtered waste.


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## Lino1406 (Nov 30, 2016)

When the gold plating is intact the gold will be attacked (wounded) by peroxide
2Au + H2O2 = 2Au+ +2OH-
Then the attack goes preferably to copper hence the amount of gold in solution is negligent. "30 and more recovery procedures"


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