Palladium jackpot?

[IIIPERCENTER]

Hello everyone! I have been collecting and disassembling older electronics for some time. A while back I stumbled upon of a western electric relay repair kit at the bottom of a box of junk. I almost threw it out since mice had clearly been shacked up inside for a few generations. The repair kit was empty but it was full of little envelopes that had different individual contacts and strips of what appeared to be gold plated silver. There was no manual and the only thing I had to go on were some numbers on the envelopes. Long story short I found a manual online and it says all the contacts and strips are palladium with a gold overlay. I have attached a few pictures and would love some feedback. I have very limited knowledge on the platinum metals. If it is palladium what would yall do with it?

 

[lazersteve]

Looks promising.

I sent you a PM with a private offer.

Palladium is one of my specialties.

Steve

 

[lazersteve]

If you want to tackle it yourself there are tons of posts on the subject. I will be glad to point you to a few if you want to cut your teeth into palladium refining.

 

[macfixer01]

Sounds like a real windfall there! Here’s some more info on the wire spring relays Western Electric used to use in the phone system. From what this document says the types AF,AG,AJ,AK wire spring relays all had palladium contacts.

https://www.telephonecollectors.inf...spring-relays-af-ag-aj-ak-x75509-aug62-1/file

 

[kurtak]

I could be wrong here but - I don't believe the relay spring wire/reed is made of Pd (or any other PM) other then "some" may have gold plating

The Pd would be the actual "contact point" that gets brazed on the end of the "spring" wire/reed

These spring wires/reeds do not look like the actual point has been brazed on the contact end of the of the wire/reed yet

One test that could confirm if they are actually Pd or not (with the wires/reeds that are silver in color) would be to heat them "red hot" with a torch - when they cool back down if they look just like they did before heating with the touch (no change/discoloration of the metal) there is a likely hood they are Pd (or Pt) acid dissolve (small piece) & test with stannous &/or DMG to confirm --- but if they change/discolor after cooling down they are likely not Pd (or Pt)

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

The repair kit was empty but it was full of little envelopes that had different individual contacts and strips

Per the bold print - in the first picture - it looks like the actual "contact points" are in the bags next to the scale

Those are what get brazed to the relay spring wires/reeds

So it is those "points" that are ether made of Pd - or silver - or gold plated silver

Take what is in each of those bags (only need one from each bag) & take a pic of them to post here so we can see what is in the bags

Then do the heat test I posted in my last post on the silver colored reed/wire - you only need to heat an end of the reed/wire not the whole reed/wire

Kurt

 

[Lino1406]

I could be wrong here but - I don't believe the relay spring wire/reed is made of Pd (or any other PM) other then "some" may have gold plating

The Pd would be the actual "contact point" that gets brazed on the end of the "spring" wire/reed

These spring wires/reeds do not look like the actual point has been brazed on the contact end of the of the wire/reed yet

One test that could confirm if they are actually Pd or not (with the wires/reeds that are silver in color) would be to heat them "red hot" with a torch - when they cool back down if they look just like they did before heating with the touch (no change/discoloration of the metal) there is a likely hood they are Pd (or Pt) acid dissolve (small piece) & test with stannous &/or DMG to confirm --- but if they change/discolor after cooling down they are likely not Pd (or Pt)

Kurt

A more exact definition is needed for "red hot" since palladium can absorb oxygen and become black oxide coated on cooling from high temperature especially if partly melted

 

[IIIPERCENTER]

I will post the pictures of the individual contacts when I get back home. I have been snipping and saving the tiny wire spring contacts for years and have quite a few saved up. I have attached another picture of a different type that are thinner than the first i posted. These can get RED hot and once cool look exactly the same as before.

 

[billgold]

Do you mean that you have snipped the contacts off the ends of all the springs that you show in the second picture and have saved them separately?

 

[anarxi]

I could be wrong here but - I don't believe the relay spring wire/reed is made of Pd (or any other PM) other then "some" may have gold plating

The Pd would be the actual "contact point" that gets brazed on the end of the "spring" wire/reed

These spring wires/reeds do not look like the actual point has been brazed on the contact end of the of the wire/reed yet

One test that could confirm if they are actually Pd or not (with the wires/reeds that are silver in color) would be to heat them "red hot" with a torch - when they cool back down if they look just like they did before heating with the touch (no change/discoloration of the metal) there is a likely hood they are Pd (or Pt) acid dissolve (small piece) & test with stannous &/or DMG to confirm --- but if they change/discolor after cooling down they are likely not Pd (or Pt)

Kurt

there is another way, without chemicals Requires 9-27 volt power supply
I use 12V for LEDs

- on a stick dipped in salt water

+ supplied to the part being examined

palladium alloy will give orange color

 

[orvi]

I will post the pictures of the individual contacts when I get back home. I have been snipping and saving the tiny wire spring contacts for years and have quite a few saved up. I have attached another picture of a different type that are thinner than the first i posted. These can get RED hot and once cool look exactly the same as before.

Red hot test can point you into several directions. I worked A LOT with Ag, Ag-Pd alloys and also Pd itself.
Thing is, if you take the metal to the red heat and let it cool in air - and it does not tarnish and stays nice and shiny - there are several possibilities.

Good thing for you is - the metal is noble (like you can be 99% sure). Remember that pure silver also behave the same. So do also Ag-Pd alloys, which are most common in relay contacts of signaling small relays (since I used to process more "eastern" stuff, "western" may be little bit different) - usually AgPd20, AgPd30 or AgPd60 alloys. All of these will not tarnish upon "red hot in air" test. Also, platinum alloys do not tarnish as well. However, pure palladium (or high Pd alloy) will develop very familiar coloured oxide coating, ranging from violet to blue/grey-blue colour.

Better test would be to take a piece and drop few drops of nitric acid onto it. Palladium in nitrate solution is coloured deep brownish-red. And if the material passed "red hot" test, you can be sure you have some sort of palladium alloy in hand. If you do not have nitric acid, you can take sodium or ammonium nitrate, add some battery acid (sulfuric acid), place the contact into the vial/beaker and heat on the hotplate. You should be able to see the colour, if the Pd is there.

Best would be to take sample of this material to some jeweller or PM buyer, who has XRF machine. Even low-grade crappy Thermo machines would be able to determine rough composition of this metallic PM alloy. Ask beforehand, how much they will charge you for one test

 

[eaglekeeper]

Testing solutions are fairly cheap on Amazon, stannous chloride is easy to make. I usually have those solution and strips of filter paper readily handy when I'm scrapping e-waste.

The silver testing solution doesn't last long though.

Do not store the testing solutions near anything you value, Hydrochloric vapors will find a way out of a sealed container and corrode everything around it.

 

[PlainsScrapper]

I can't say too much with regards to how to process this material, but I will say (if you don't know it already) that quarter in the original post is 90% silver. Just thought I'd mention it! All pre-'65 quarters and dimes are that way

 

[macfixer01]

there is another way, without chemicals Requires 9-27 volt power supply
I use 12V for LEDs

- on a stick dipped in salt water

+ supplied to the part being examined

palladium alloy will give orange color

Thank you, very interesting! I would use kosher or non-iodized salt though just to avoid any false color results from releasing iodine?

 

[Alondro]

Red hot test can point you into several directions. I worked A LOT with Ag, Ag-Pd alloys and also Pd itself.
Thing is, if you take the metal to the red heat and let it cool in air - and it does not tarnish and stays nice and shiny - there are several possibilities.

Good thing for you is - the metal is noble (like you can be 99% sure). Remember that pure silver also behave the same. So do also Ag-Pd alloys, which are most common in relay contacts of signaling small relays (since I used to process more "eastern" stuff, "western" may be little bit different) - usually AgPd20, AgPd30 or AgPd60 alloys. All of these will not tarnish upon "red hot in air" test. Also, platinum alloys do not tarnish as well. However, pure palladium (or high Pd alloy) will develop very familiar coloured oxide coating, ranging from violet to blue/grey-blue colour.

Better test would be to take a piece and drop few drops of nitric acid onto it. Palladium in nitrate solution is coloured deep brownish-red. And if the material passed "red hot" test, you can be sure you have some sort of palladium alloy in hand. If you do not have nitric acid, you can take sodium or ammonium nitrate, add some battery acid (sulfuric acid), place the contact into the vial/beaker and heat on the hotplate. You should be able to see the colour, if the Pd is there.

Best would be to take sample of this material to some jeweller or PM buyer, who has XRF machine. Even low-grade crappy Thermo machines would be able to determine rough composition of this metallic PM alloy. Ask beforehand, how much they will charge you for one test

I've been collecting the 'silver buttons' from many relays, and noticed that some tarnished (the bigger ones), and some didn't (mainly the tiny ones). Made me wonder if some could be an Ag-Pd alloy. Now I see it's a possibility! I'll need to account for that when processing them. Have to be much more cautious with PGM-containing solutions, after all.

 

[anarxi]

I've been collecting the 'silver buttons' from many relays, and noticed that some tarnished (the bigger ones), and some didn't (mainly the tiny ones). Made me wonder if some could be an Ag-Pd alloy. Now I see it's a possibility! I'll need to account for that when processing them. Have to be much more cautious with PGM-containing solutions, after all.

Hello.
if you are processing a lot of contacts from the last century,
in the 70s and 80s, when palladium-silver alloy was a cheap alternative to platinum - they will definitely be.
You can run a torch over them until they turn red and let them cool.
silver will be milky
The silver-palladium alloy will be grey.
the same color effect will occur if they are treated with ammonia.

 

[anarxi]

Thank you, very interesting! I would use kosher or non-iodized salt though just to avoid any false color results from releasing iodine?

Hello.
It makes no difference whether the salt is regular or iodized.
that beautiful orange color will not be spoiled by iodine.

and there will still be a smell of chlorine.