Recovering Black Powder from the Cell

Anonymous · May 4, 2010

I am building a cell for un plating gold jewelry. I have purchased everything i need and made a lead bar and i know how to get the thing working but my problem is this.

I watched the videos on the site but the videos on how to filter and get the gold out wont play. Im compleetly lost on how to filter the gold out (washing the powder)and getting the gold out of solution.

I am also wondering if I need the glycerin because I am using lead.

Noxx · May 4, 2010

Glycerin is useless.

Barren Realms 007 · May 4, 2010

joey2273 said:
I am building a cell for un plating gold jewelry. I have purchased everything i need and made a lead bar and i know how to get the thing working but my problem is this.

I watched the videos on the site but the videos on how to filter and get the gold out wont play. Im compleetly lost on how to filter the gold out (washing the powder)and getting the gold out of solution.

I am also wondering if I need the glycerin because I am using lead.

Let your gold settle and then siphon off the acid. Dilute the soultion with the gold still in it 3 to 1 and filter. If you try to filte without diluting it will dislove your filter paper.

lazersteve · May 4, 2010

Here's my latest version of what to do next:

When your cell is full you should:

Let all the black powder settle
Pour off the bulk of the concentrated sulfuric acid. Don't worry about the small amount of residual black powder that is in the acid that is poured off as you can get it on the next batch.
The remaining acid with the bulk of the black powder in it should be slowly added (let it cool before adding more) to five or six times it's volume of water.
Stir this very well and allow to settle again.
Siphon off the colored solution. Repeat this process until the wash is no longer colored.
Test a few drops of the rinse water with a drop or two of 3% unscented clear household ammonia, if the rinse water turns blue when the ammonium hydroxide is added, copper is still present and more rinsing is required.
Dissolve the black powder with AR or HCl-Cl and proceed as typical for these processes.

The concentrated acid that was poured off is used in your next cell run as is. Hot concentrated acid is very dangerous, so exercise extreme caution when handling it. Never add water to concentrated sulfuric acid/powder mixture, add the acid/powder slowly to the water instead.

Steve

Anonymous · May 4, 2010

Thank you.

philddreamer · May 26, 2010

Thank you Steve!

HAuCl4 · Jun 1, 2010

It will be very interesting when I set up one of these.

I plan to boil half the gold mud in hot nitric acid and treat the other half with HCL-CL and drop with SMB, and then compare the fineness of the 2 buttons via fire assays.

Thanks for the cell videos Steve. I learned that gold can be dissolved in sulfuric with current. The learning never ends it seems!.

Nopyrite · Jun 10, 2010

Steve, I have received the parts from you that I had ordered and now my cell is up and running. I think I could have chosen a better drain cleaner though for my first run. I picked up a bottle of Liquid Lightning (red label) at Wall-Mart. It is kind of dark brown with a light syrupy texture right out of the bottle. I must say though that it does a good job of stripping the Gold. However, it soon builds a thick foamy layer of bubbles on top about the same consistency as the head on a glass of Guinness. Since this is a test run, I have shut the cell down and I will let the thick, dark mixture settle for 24 hours per your instructions. The part I like the most about this process is the fact that the sulfuric can be used again (though I am not crazy about Liquid Lightning) after filtration thus creating less waste to deal with. I have a bit of a crazy question concerning the rinse/cathode storage water. Should the water be processed for values or just treated and discarded? Thanks again to all on this site for your help.

Barren Realms 007 · Jun 10, 2010

Nopyrite said:
Steve, I have received the parts from you that I had ordered and now my cell is up and running. I think I could have chosen a better drain cleaner though for my first run. I picked up a bottle of Liquid Lightning (red label) at Wall-Mart. It is kind of dark brown with a light syrupy texture right out of the bottle. I must say though that it does a good job of stripping the Gold. However, it soon builds a thick foamy layer of bubbles on top about the same consistency as the head on a glass of Guinness. Since this is a test run, I have shut the cell down and I will let the thick, dark mixture settle for 24 hours per your instructions. The part I like the most about this process is the fact that the sulfuric can be used again (though I am not crazy about Liquid Lightning) after filtration thus creating less waste to deal with. I have a bit of a crazy question concerning the rinse/cathode storage water. Should the water be processed for values or just treated and discarded? Thanks again to all on this site for your help.

The rinse water should be filtered to recover your values and then process them.

philddreamer · Jun 10, 2010

I've used a combination of methods to "clean" my solution.
First, I let settle overnite as Steve recommends. Then, I take a funnel & plug it with fiberglass like Iron recommends; I pour the solution thru the filter, leav'n the sediment that's @ the bottom of cell. I rinse the sediment & add a bit HCI in case of cu present. Same with the sponge on the cathode.
I rinse the funnel, so no acid is present. Then I run thru the filter my HCI-CI solution & it dissolves the gold that collected in the filter; now the filter is ready for when I rinse the sediment from the cell.
When I'm done, the acid is clear & the filter can be re-used for next batch.

Nopyrite · Jun 11, 2010

phildreamer, thanks for the tips. I have used your suggestion of the fiberglass/funnel filter solution. My problem as I mentioned above is my choice of Liquid Lightning red label from Wall-Mart. This stuff is dark with the consistency of motor oil. It comes out of the filter exactly as it went in with no change and there is very little powder in the bowl. I will test the solution with stannous to see if it contains Gold. What brand of sulfuric do you use in your cell?

philddreamer · Jun 11, 2010

Hi brother Nopyrite!

I bought a gallon of "Liquid Fire". It's reddish brown & thick as molasses. :lol: It has turn light green after 3 batches, i think its copper, though copper collects on the cathode. I haven't had to add any extra acid yet. I brush the cu off the cathode into a separate small bucket & add some water, let settle, decant & then add HCI. Next morning I filter & rinse; add the black sediment to what was @ the bottom of cell. I only run the acid once thru the filter & it's clear.
Experiment packing the fiberglass. Too tight, & it will take a while to run thru. Too lose & you'll see sediment close to the end. Medium packed & it works good. :lol:

Barren Realms 007 · Jun 11, 2010

philddreamer said:
Hi brother Nopyrite!

I bought a gallon of "Liquid Fire". It's reddish brown & thick as molasses. :lol: It has turn light green after 3 batches, i think its copper, though copper collects on the cathode. I haven't had to add any extra acid yet. I brush the cu off the cathode into a separate small bucket & add some water, let settle, decant & then add HCI. Next morning I filter & rinse; add the black sediment to what was @ the bottom of cell. I only run the acid once thru the filter & it's clear.
Experiment packing the fiberglass. Too tight, & it will take a while to run thru. Too lose & you'll see sediment close to the end. Medium packed & it works good. :lol:

If your acid is not concentrated/has water in it the solution will attack copper fast. If the solution is warm it will attack copper, keep the solution in an ice bath when processing to keep this problem to a minimum.

Nopyrite · Jun 11, 2010

UH - OH, looks like this stripping cell operation is a bit more complicated than I originally anticipated. Is the ice-bath recommended while the cell is being used in the "stripping" mode or when attempting to recover my feeble little portion of paydirt?

Barren Realms 007 · Jun 11, 2010

Nopyrite said:
UH - OH, looks like this stripping cell operation is a bit more complicated than I originally anticipated. Is the ice-bath recommended while the cell is being used in the "stripping" mode or when attempting to recover my feeble little portion of paydirt?

I use it in ice bath when I am running my cell. The cell in one container setting in ice held by another container.

lazersteve · Jun 11, 2010

Nopyrite said:
UH - OH, looks like this stripping cell operation is a bit more complicated than I originally anticipated. Is the ice-bath recommended while the cell is being used in the "stripping" mode or when attempting to recover my feeble little portion of paydirt?

The heat can easily be controlled by letting the cell rest for a short time between runs. I've never used an ice bath for my cells and feel it may actually be hazardous to have water near the concentrated acid if a spill were to occur.

The only way you'll get enough heating to force you to stop running the cell is if you run several batches in succession using the copper mesh screen. Another possibility for quick heat build up is using other experimental anodes that allow you to strip many items all at once.

A much easier solution to heating is to simply set up two cells and alternate use of the cells once one gets heated or saturated with gold. No offense to Barren, but I would advise you to stay away form ice baths and the cell.

Steve

Barren Realms 007 · Jun 11, 2010

lazersteve said:
Nopyrite said:

UH - OH, looks like this stripping cell operation is a bit more complicated than I originally anticipated. Is the ice-bath recommended while the cell is being used in the "stripping" mode or when attempting to recover my feeble little portion of paydirt?

Click to expand...

The heat can easily be controlled by letting the cell rest for a short time between runs. I've never used an ice bath for my cells and feel it may actually be hazardous to have water near the concentrated acid if a spill were to occur.

The only way you'll get enough heating to force you to stop running the cell is if you run several batches in succession using the copper mesh screen. Another possibility for quick heat build up is using other experimental anodes that allow you to strip many items all at once.

A much easier solution to heating is to simply set up two cells and alternate use of the cells once one gets heated or saturated with gold. No offense to Barren, but I would advise you to stay away form ice baths and the cell.

Steve

No offense taken Steve, I can understand the concern. I do have an advantage in that I work with sulfuric on a regular basis as a drain cleaner and have for many years so I am familiar with a lot of it's reactions. Sounds can tell you a lot like when you have poured it on top of water in a confined vessel like a drain, When it comes in contect with a strong base like when someone has used vinigar and baking soda together to clean a drain( and don't use this formula it is a lousy home remedy). I would not advise people to use it the way I do sometimes.

Nopyrite · Jun 14, 2010

Thanks for the clarification on the "Ice" issue guys. I will be just doing small batches, so excess heat should not be an issue. I do have a technical question though. The cathode is made of lead and is partially submerged in the acid bath. The anode is made of stainless, but does not go into the bath. My question is why stainless for the anode as it does not get exposed to the acid? If my understanding is correct, the anode is just a link in the electrical circuit. It seems that about any kind of metal would serve the same purpose. Is stainless used as it has more resistance to accidental exposure to the acid?

lazersteve · Jun 14, 2010

No pyrite said:
Is stainless used as it has more resistance to accidental exposure to the acid?

Yes, that is correct. Any conductive metal will work for the anode rail, but stainless will give you the longest life and least contamination if exposed to the solution.

Steve

bklopsy · Jul 12, 2010

Steve
I have completed a little over 20 pounds of plated material and have expired the copper meshes purchased from you. My question is, is there a stainless steel mesh? I have taken a real interest in recovery using the cell method but copper contamination and life span of copper mesh are an issue
Brooks

Recovering Black Powder from the Cell

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