20 Troy oz weekly, where to sell?

[martinusta1980]

I everyone, I'm new to this forum, been lurking for a while, I'm in the process of starting to refine my own gold, and was hoping to find some help/recommendations on where to sell my refined bars.

I started buying karat gold 4 years ago, and my weekly average it's 700 to 1200 grams. So I reckon I'll be able to produce around 20 Troy oz of pure (99.95 at least gold bars.

I was going to start using ARA for my first batch, but now with all the bad experiences from fellow members I'm having second thoughts... One thing is for sure, I would NEVER send scrap gold as there is no possible way to track/verify the refining process, so my plan was to refine, take a sample, and compare with their numbers, if the difference Was too great I'd know right away they were trying to screw me. So that was my plan, but now with all the negative imput I don't know if I even want to bother trying.

My current refinery pays me 95% face to face using stone and acids. I'm happy with that but would like to start doing the same thing they do. And since every time I'm seeing more ppl saying its possible to get scrap price (or even little more) on refined bars, I though I'd appealed to your experience to try and get some help with this.

Thank you in advance to all who took the Ike to read through my post.

 

[nickvc]

If your purpose is to increase your margin on the scrap my advice would be to melt the metal yourself and get an assay then you know exactly what you have, from there it's simple to hit the phone and find a good buyer, 98% of spot should be possible, you might find the deal your already getting isn't that bad considering much karat scrap isn't plum.
Lose the idea of getting over spot or even spot for your gold the demand from end users is very limited to non existent these days and without an accepted mark no one will accept the assay on the market.
You could sell for slightly better than 98% to other refiners and you would get the bonus metals, silver and maybe some PGMs, if you refined your own metals, but would that offset the costs and your time?
If you decide to start refining you are in the right place to learn all the methods and processes that are proven and have access to some of the most knowledgable people in refining to help to make it a success.

 

[martinusta1980]

thanks for your response.
do you know of an independent gold assayer that's reliable, uses fire assay, and who's prices are not off the roof?
also has anybody deal with NTR metals in the past? any experiences you can share? do they pay you for your silver content, say if i melt my karat gold and make it into bars, take samples, have them assayed by independent assayer, would they pay me for silver content in the bar or just the gold?
thanks,
Martin.

 

[4metals]

Your main goal here is to be reasonably sure you are getting paid for all of your gold. To assure that, you have to melt and sample the material yourself. Ideally the ability to perform your own fire assays would enhance your ability but for starters there are assayers out there who can assay your sample and you will know the content before shipping.

Melting the quantities you are talking about will involve a small propane melter which can be had for under $500. Good melting practice combined with the proper flux and you will generate a nice bar for shipment.

There are refiners in NYC who will charge you 1% refining charge for that quantity and you will not have to bother to refine it yourself.

By knowing what your bar contains by assay, your refiner will know he has to work close. By shipping a clean bar you know his melt losses have to be minimal. Since you will not be witnessing, they have to know that you know the content and any games on their part and the business relationship is over.

If you need the numbers for a refiner who will work in this range or an assayer for your samples, send me a PM and I'll give you some numbers.

 

[Harold_V]

I was going to start using ARA for my first batch, but now with all the bad experiences from fellow members I'm having second thoughts...

I'm assuming you mean AR (aqua regia), not ARA.

Nonsense. The bad experiences come from ignorance and improper procedures, not from AR. It is a perfectly reliable method of dissolving and refining gold---but it should be applied properly. The problem all too many have is overlooking base metals, as if they will magically disappear. That's hardly the case, and is often the cause of the problems those who have been mislead encounter. Learn proper procedures and AR is your friend.

Read Hoke. There is precious little in print that will help you understand, the way her book will.

Harold

 

[Lou]

I think he indeed meant American Recycling Associates in Dallas, TX.

 

[martinusta1980]

thanks Harold, i meant A.R.A Gold. lately I've seen some negative feedback about them so that got me wondering.

i contacted NTR metals yesterday, the told me they'll give me 98% for gold and pay me 90% for the silver. they have a branch in my city but I'm not sure they would let me come in to witness all the process. they told me, the way they do it is they will re-melt my bar, take a pin sample and pay me, the turnaround time does not exceed one hour.
what do you guys think?

"Melting the quantities you are talking about will involve a small propane melter which can be had for under $500"

that's good info, could you point me in the right direction where to get it?

Also, I've been trying to find a thread here on the forum on how to properly take a sample from my alloy, i've read pin sampling, drilling, thief sample etc. but i don't really know how to actually do it. for instance, on drilling technique, i drill 3 holes from the top, 3 from the bottom, not further than the middle of the bar, then what do i do with that debris? do i melt it all together and make a button and send it to assay? or do i gather all the drillings, put them in a container and send it to assay? also, don't you get cross contamination from the drill bit (particles) that will alter your results? or is it a special drill bit? reason i'm asking is cause on high karat gold the softness and malleability is greater than on 14k alloy. i'm sorry if i'm overwhelming you with questions, prob. they are stupid questions, but i rather ask them.

 

[4metals]

Propane furnaces from Action Mining

http://actionmining.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php?product=10000:FURNACE5

If you pour a bar make sure you mix it well and take drill samples from both sides of the bar. If you have enough metal in the melt you can use a glass pin dip for sampling http://pintubes.com/ Good stirring is still needed when pin sampling.



Quite a few members have complained of less than stellar returns from NTR, faster isn't always better.

 

[MiguelRosas]

Martinusta1980 -

PICK ME... PICK ME...

Quantity and purity automatically qualify you for the 99% payout. Since we will still be melting / assaying to verify the purity we cannot pay spot price - however if you are interested I would be more than happy to discuss with you our procedure.

Kindest,

Miguel (the honest refiner) R. -
Hi-Tech PMR.

8)

 

[Geo]

Miguel,

would i have to have a federal tax number to sell to you?

would i have to have a business license?

do you buy from the home refiner?

 

[Lobby]

I've had a lot of troubles with NTR. Not merely disagreement on their analytical, but smoking gun mistakes they've made. We're in negotiations right now. Sigh.

A few things I've learned that the refiner must have:

- guaranteed, visual and video chain of custody of your samples. None of this "behind closed doors" stuff.

- analytical on their remote collection site that is equal in quality to their main office (don't let them use cheaper machines)

- they must provide you a detailed analytical report, not just gold assay

- they must offer you a "loser pays" third party assay, should you disagree with their numbers.

Without that, I don't deal.

 

[GoldExchange]

Curious, have you found a buyer yet?

 

[Harold_V]

thanks Harold, i meant A.R.A Gold. lately I've seen some negative feedback about them so that got me wondering.

Thanks for the correction, and thanks to Lou as well. I just reread the post and don't understand how I missed the point. It's abundantly clear. I'll attribute my error to old age and inattention. I'll try to do better!

Harold

 

[trashmaster]

Goldexchange do you have a web site we can look at???????

 

[pinman]

It's the first thing that comes up in a google search of tgm gold exchange... Go figure. I would question what they pay though. On the site it says they offer a 10% bonus if you refer a sale to them. Sure as he'll ain't gonna get 108% from them. Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting that offer.

 

[Dan Dement]

Lobby,

I have a larger XRF machine and an good SG scale along with a smaller induction melter. Happy to have you come by and run your metal in front of you. I have done some interesting studies on payouts which I will share with you. I feel I have a pretty good handle on payouts but you got to decide for yourself. Call me on my cell 210 262 6608 if you want to talk.

Dan Dement

 

[Oz]

That is a nice offer Dan.

 

[Lobby]

Lobby,

I have a larger XRF machine and an good SG scale along with a smaller induction melter. Happy to have you come by and run your metal in front of you. I have done some interesting studies on payouts which I will share with you. I feel I have a pretty good handle on payouts but you got to decide for yourself. Call me on my cell 210 262 6608 if you want to talk.

Dan Dement

Thanks, Dan. Very much appreciated. I'll be seeing you soon. :mrgreen: