Another ebay laugh

[NobleMetalWorks]

Someone on another forum was asking me what I thought about an ebay listing.

Here is the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Technol...018?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4611a71fb2

Putting aside the obvious questions about some of the claims made, does anyone have any idea how this might actually work? I'm not so much interested in if it works, as how it's proposed to work.

I looked for any patents, and didn't see anything right off the bat.

Scott

 

[Palladium]

WOW ! :lol:

I don't even know where to start. That's kind of just a whole lot of wow.

Meet his happy customers. http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=physicsmasterdave&iid=300943876018&de=off&items=25&which=negative&interval=365&_trkparms=negative_365

 

[g_axelsson]

Isn't this just our good old friend, the fizzer cell?

Göran

 

[pgms4me]

True, He has made some non-friends by selling info that people don't understand.Not much different than some newbies that come on to the forum. I have purchased about everything offered on ebay over the past few years just to see what people put out. Some of the stuff is copies,some is outright junk, but the dual cell cd is very well put together in my opinion. I built a small one to try out and it worked fine. I could even put the pgms from a catalytic converter comb into solution. The only thing i can mention is that the saltwater has to be a completely saturated solution to work well,and it takes a lot of salt water to dissolve just a little metal. You want all or most all your base metals removed first. Saltwater is cheap,but it still generates considerable chlorine gas at the anodes,while the other side of the cell becomes pretty strong sodium hydroxide after a while. Must be done in a fume hood or outside to be safe.Personally, If i need to use acid peroxide or another method to get rid of the base metals why bother with this..Seems like the best use for this idea is to dissolve platinum scrap without using high heat,but since I don't yet do platinum someone else can experiment with it. The absolute best Goldmine in the world is this forum and its all due to the patience and time put in by the moderators and contributers. Thanks Harold,geo, Patnor 101,palladium,Scott,and all the others too numerous to mention. Donn

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

If the person who is selling the design, was doing so well recovering and refining gold with their system they say they should be selling for between $5k-$10k, they never would have taken pictures of the cell using a clay flour pot in a plastic storage container.

Considering only one was sold, and also considering that that one person posted a negative response, I have to question everything else that has been said. Without point a finger at specific people I can also say that the way the person writes is very similar to another post I just read.

I am just curious why a two cell design, if you are going to refine using salt water, why two cells?

And in the pictures, it doesn't look like two cells to me, it looks like the cathode is in one area, and the anode in another, this isn't two cells, this is two compartments.

Is the person selling this "process" using some sort of system similar to this?

And if so, how is that suppose to work for Au, Ag, Pt, Pd, etc, all at the same time?

Also, the person selling this process makes the claim that it can create Sodium Hydroxide, I get that, it's done via electrolysis and during the process creates chlorine gas which he doesn't really warn about but kind of mentions it offhand. But to get sodium hydroxide doesn't it have to be evaporated down by either allowing it to do so naturally, or by cooking it? And if cooking it, wouldn't you want to do it in stainless steel, not a clay pot or a plastic storage container?

What really throws me is the claim that it makes "clean HCl". The two ways I know of making clean HCl involve using either Sulfuric Acid or Sodium Bisulfate, then bubbling it through cold or iced water to condense it better. But he makes no mention of Hydrogen Chloride Gas, which would evolve, and is just as bad if not worse than Chlorine Gas. And the only way a person could tell if it was making "clean" HCl or HCl of any strength would be by titration or azeotropic distillation, which of course he makes no mention of and I don't get the feeling he understands. So now I wonder if the "cheap chem" to refine Pt would be sodium bisulfate? If this is so, how is the electrolysis of Pt done using salt water and sodium bisulfate? Or is sulfuric acid the other "chem"?

Is there some halogen gas being created somewhere, trapped, kept in a vessel and used to refine Pt that we are not seeing in the pictures?

I'm totally lost on this one, the claims seem wildly outside what actually would work, and it seems the person who posted this "process" doesn't understand exactly what is being created, or the risks in doing so.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Am I wrong here?

Scott

 

[Palladium]

It's Shor's design !
It's also called a Chloralkali cell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloralkali_process

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Thanks Palladium! Makes perfect sense now, I have read this before. I thought it would be similar to a bridge design. I think the ebay post was so misleading that I wasn't able to put them together. Specially the part about it being a new process, and not 75 years old, etc etc...

The same person is selling other cheeseball solutions!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/physicsmasterdave/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686

I would like to here comments on this:

Your right on Geo' I have used the salt water cell because it dissolves all the metal(even platinum). You do have the problem of having to selectively get all the metals out,On a small scale i have found that it only works good if you keep no more than 2 ounces of scrap to about 1/2 gallon of salt water. I have found the salt water solution needs to be a saturated as possible. I would not use sea salt,the other elements can cause havoc in dropping some of the metals, depending on your scrap,of course. I used a flower pot for a membrane. if your going to try this,I would reccomend getting rid of as much base metals beforehand as possible with a clean method like HCL and hydrogen peroxide pretreatment. the good thing is salt is cheap.. Lots of good EDM graphite electrode material on ebay cheap!

Found in this thread:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=18603&p=188554#p188554

Specifically:

I used a flower pot for a membrane.

Lots of good EDM graphite electrode material on ebay cheap!

Here is the picture taken off the ebay auction:

I would hate to think someone is promoting their sales on ebay, by playing us for fools. It would be better if that person just came out and said what they were doing!

Scott

 

[Palladium]

It would blow their mind if i told them they could use stainless for the cathode side instead of graphite. :twisted:

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

It would blow their mind if i told them they could use stainless for the cathode side instead of graphite. :twisted:

Lol, do you work for a stainless steel producer?

I think it would blow their mind you figured out what process they are using.

Scott

 

[Palladium]

People would be surprised to know how important stainless is in processing both silver as well as gold and incineration. Nitric is the work horse of my refining system. The two most important pieces of equipment i own is pyroceram and anything stainless.

 

[goldsilverpro]

I asked him for the patent number and got this reply, as smoke was observed to be rising from his trousers.

I do not handle those pieces of paperwork. They are handled by the office.

 

[pgms4me]

Hello Gentlemen: As mentioned before ,I purchased this and tested it. I did not want to give detailed info because when you buy something that says not to give the info away I at least want to honor that person's request. It is not two cells. It is a single cell separating anode from cathode with a clay pot or other more suitable membrane. Why he calls it a dual cell I have'nt a clue. he reccomends graphite only for anode but he instructs cathode can be stainless ,but wont last as long as graphite.
I might add that the information posted previously on the selling of only one of them is wrong . if that info came from ebay its a mistake some how. I exchanged e-mails with trwo other previous purchasers before spending my few dollars on his cd. I have experimented with similiar cells before, and the only good new information helpful to me was too make sure the saltwater is a fully saturated solution. Does it work.Yes, but too much time and saltwater for so little gain (at least in my case).

 

[pgms4me]

Sorry ! I forgot to add that much of his Insturctional information is wrong by being to dangerous,especially how he reccomends to run multiple cells in series. I wouldnt post that info anywhere.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Hello Gentlemen: As mentioned before ,I purchased this and tested it. I did not want to give detailed info because when you buy something that says not to give the info away I at least want to honor that person's request. It is not two cells. It is a single cell separating anode from cathode with a clay pot or other more suitable membrane. Why he calls it a dual cell I have'nt a clue. he reccomends graphite only for anode but he instructs cathode can be stainless ,but wont last as long as graphite.
I might add that the information posted previously on the selling of only one of them is wrong . if that info came from ebay its a mistake some how. I exchanged e-mails with trwo other previous purchasers before spending my few dollars on his cd. I have experimented with similiar cells before, and the only good new information helpful to me was too make sure the saltwater is a fully saturated solution. Does it work.Yes, but too much time and saltwater for so little gain (at least in my case).

Are you the person selling this process on ebay?

Scott

 

[pgms4me]

Hello Scott: I cant understand why you would even think that? I have purchased his and most all other recovery info sold on ebay just for curiosity sake. i do learn some things from these items,but as I said before most of it is copies of some one else's processes. i just posted that he has inaccurate and dangerous suggestions in his instructions. i answered this thread hoping to throw some light to the person who started this thread on how this cell is claimed to work. Figured i could help since i built a small one to play with.. FYI I have been on ebay for 14 years and have a super excellent feedback rating. I sell electronics parts and items and some pgm scrap. You couldnt pay me to list a recovery process. I am only reporting some of what I have found out hoping to share. Unfortunately I had to give up my refining processes as I had to move to a location where It cant be done safely,at least for the time being. That is why i am selling some of my higher yield e-scrap. You can check out my listings and past items by going to "fuzzstik" Also the seller of that cell originally was using another ebay name called "physicsguydavid" until he changed it to "physicsmasterdave" Thanks for asking that question so I could set the record straight. I am an oldtimer that started recovering metals from ores in the 1960's-70's. Used to have a company called Lowell Mining and Mineral Co. I became an electronic engineer in the 70's and became interested in reclaiming gold when I noticed that the wave solder machine had to have the solder changed out because it became to brittle after accumulating all the excess plating material used on the component leads(much of which was gold). They were throwing it away in 50# blocks. I took one to have analyzed and it had 3 ounces worth of gold in it.That was only worth about 105.00 in those days. Sure wish I had some now. Thanks for all you contribute Scott.