AP waste

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BLUMPKISS

New member
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
3
Is there a certain order as to which metals should be taken out of solution fo AP when cleaning your waste for disposal.
My AP is clear with a emerald green tint, looks like a good copper 2 cloride solution, but i have been processing whole depopulated boards with a minimal mount of solder still on the boards. I know the solder is goimg into solution becuase the boards are coming out clean, just fiberglass left. I know how to cement out the copper but then if i have iron cloride in solution with possably tin and lead, can i still filter out lead from a cold solution, and not sure how to get the tin out or the iron at that point.
I looked for my answers but couldnt find the answers i needed. My AP is still working terrific and i will continue to use it till it is a syrup that wont work at all but i would like to have a perfect understanding of my waste disposal before i get to that point.
 
That is what i needed. The only thing is where do lead and tin come out in that procces. With the iron? Or with the copper?
 
BLUMPKISS said:
That is what i needed. The only thing is where do lead and tin come out in that procces. With the iron? Or with the copper?
Click to expand...
It should come out with the Iron. Copper will drop Gold, Silver, Platinum and any Palladium out as a black powder. This you will want to keep to process at a later date for recovery.

Ken
 
So lets see if i got it.
Waste AP, in goes copper rod, drops pm's, filter off waste, keep powder to refine later.
In goes iron rod, drops copper, lead and tin, filter off waste.
Raise ph to 3.5, iron drops out, filter off liquid, raise liquid ph to 7, discard liquid.

Sorry for being repetitive, i just like to make sure i have it understood.

Thanks, Mike
 
BLUMPKISS, you have a general idea of how it works but you need to go back and study more on what metals drop out at what pH.

https://www.google.com/search?q=metal+hydroxide+precipitation+pH&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigksLs7pLQAhVX-mMKHZ6VAIoQ_AUICCgB&biw=1280&bih=888

https://www.google.com/search?q=reactivity+series&biw=1280&bih=888&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwilo7aC8JLQAhUD9WMKHUxuCRoQ_AUICCgB
 
On the topic of disposal of used AP or should I say CuCl2, the questions I have from above discussion is in relation to putting copper rod in solution. Won’t CuCl2 dissolve the copper? Is the idea to get the solution completely saturated with CuCl2? Or should be testing along the way with stannous to make sure no PMs are present?
If no PMs, can you skip copper rod?
 
LazyScrapper said:
On the topic of disposal of used AP or should I say CuCl2, the questions I have from above discussion is in relation to putting copper rod in solution. Won’t CuCl2 dissolve the copper? Is the idea to get the solution completely saturated with CuCl2? Or should be testing along the way with stannous to make sure no PMs are present?
If no PMs, can you skip copper rod?
Click to expand...
Are you ending your refining adventure?
If not put it in a sealed container until next time.
It can be reused.

If you need to dispose of it, skip the copper step and go straight to Iron.
This will take care of the copper.
Read this: Dealing with Waste
 
LazyScrapper said:
On the topic of disposal of used AP or should I say CuCl2, the questions I have from above discussion is in relation to putting copper rod in solution. Won’t CuCl2 dissolve the copper? Is the idea to get the solution completely saturated with CuCl2? Or should be testing along the way with stannous to make sure no PMs are present?
If no PMs, can you skip copper rod?
Click to expand...
I notice this is your first post.
Welcome to us. There is not much refining wise you won't find here;)

We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: Screen Readable Copy of Hoke's Book
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: Safety
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: Dealing with Waste

Suggested reading: The Library
 
I’m reading Hoke’s book now and also read dealing with waste, but still unclear as it seems more related to acids which I don’t believe CuCl2 is, I could be mistaken as I am very new to this. I have watched NUMEROUS YouTube videos on refining. I feel I have a novice understanding but when it comes to AP I’m confused why you would add a copper rod as it seems if your solution is not saturated it will just continue to dissolve the copper to CuCl2, which is what I thought was its function. To dissolve copper and other base metals. What am I missing or where am I going astray? Should used CuCl2 be treated the same as an acid? Should you just leave copper rod in place until it no longer dissolves? Continuously test with stannous and remove copper when no longer have positive test for PMs then remove copper rod and move on? If initial test of used CuCl2 is negative for PMs can you just continue with next step?
 
Search for "AP method", "copper chloride", in the search bar, and i would add : stop watching YouTube videos. CuCl2 (aq) is acidic solution
 
LazyScrapper said:
I’m reading Hoke’s book now and also read dealing with waste, but still unclear as it seems more related to acids which I don’t believe CuCl2 is, I could be mistaken as I am very new to this. I have watched NUMEROUS YouTube videos on refining. I feel I have a novice understanding but when it comes to AP I’m confused why you would add a copper rod as it seems if your solution is not saturated it will just continue to dissolve the copper to CuCl2, which is what I thought was its function. To dissolve copper and other base metals. What am I missing or where am I going astray? Should used CuCl2 be treated the same as an acid? Should you just leave copper rod in place until it no longer dissolves? Continuously test with stannous and remove copper when no longer have positive test for PMs then remove copper rod and move on? If initial test of used CuCl2 is negative for PMs can you just continue with next step?
Click to expand...
After you have green AP no need for the extra Copper.
Only when treating the stock pot for waste disposal.
Do as Michele said search and read the threads on AP method, Martijn has a post with some easy diagrams.
And ditch the Youtube unless it is from Sreetips, Owltech and some other members,
most of the Youtube videos are quite lacking and some on the verge of dangerous.
 
I have watched almost every video Sreetips has posted probably more than once. Yes, after watching Sreetips as much as I have I do see mistakes and question what many other YouTubers are doing especially when it comes to PPE and safety. I have also read many posts on this forum but only recently registered. Thank you for the advice thus far! I am not ending my journey but just beginning and yes I am saving my used AP. I was basically asking so I could treat some rinse water. I will definitely search for thread that Michelle mentioned as well as Martian. Thanks again!
 
LazyScrapper said:
I have watched almost every video Sreetips has posted probably more than once. Yes, after watching Sreetips as much as I have I do see mistakes and question what many other YouTubers are doing especially when it comes to PPE and safety. I have also read many posts on this forum but only recently registered. Thank you for the advice thus far! I am not ending my journey but just beginning and yes I am saving my used AP. I was basically asking so I could treat some rinse water. I will definitely search for thread that Michelle mentioned as well as Martian. Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Michel and Martijn ;)
 
There's really no need to drop iron, because solutions from e-waste potentially contain LOTS of toxic metals which will not easily drop, such as beryllium.

Dropping the iron is pointless because the solutions can NEVER be dumped down the drain, unless you do a final reduction with a highly reactive metal like magnesium, which will cement out practically everything except alkali and alkali-earth metals (sodium, potassium, rubidium, calcium)... but also produce so much hydrogen gas and high temps it risks bursting into flames and splashing boiling solution everywhere.

The E-waste solutions either need to be treated as hazardous liquid waste and taken to a proper disposal facility, OR if you can handle it, dehydrated into a powder cake and melted with sand and borax into a glass which will bind the toxic metals in an insoluble form.

Since I do small batches, I can dehydrate my neutralized solutions in a broad Pyrex baking dish, which I set in my greenhouse in front of the heater which has a fan blowing the hot air over the surface of the solution. It drives off water quickly when it's cold outside, over a gallon a day from just the one dish. I also neutralize my solutions with a simple source of carbonate that's completely free for me: sea shells. I have a limitless supply from the beach!
 
Alondro said:
There's really no need to drop iron, because solutions from e-waste potentially contain LOTS of toxic metals which will not easily drop, such as beryllium.

Dropping the iron is pointless because the solutions can NEVER be dumped down the drain, unless you do a final reduction with a highly reactive metal like magnesium, which will cement out practically everything except alkali and alkali-earth metals (sodium, potassium, rubidium, calcium)... but also produce so much hydrogen gas and high temps it risks bursting into flames and splashing boiling solution everywhere.

The E-waste solutions either need to be treated as hazardous liquid waste and taken to a proper disposal facility, OR if you can handle it, dehydrated into a powder cake and melted with sand and borax into a glass which will bind the toxic metals in an insoluble form.

Since I do small batches, I can dehydrate my neutralized solutions in a broad Pyrex baking dish, which I set in my greenhouse in front of the heater which has a fan blowing the hot air over the surface of the solution. It drives off water quickly when it's cold outside, over a gallon a day from just the one dish. I also neutralize my solutions with a simple source of carbonate that's completely free for me: sea shells. I have a limitless supply from the beach!
Click to expand...
This is plain wrong with regard of the Iron, and as Alondro says, No you can not dump anything down the drain.
What you do is to drop the Copper with Iron and then you drop the rest as hydroxides according to what is showed in dealing with waste.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/dealing-with-waste.10539/Then you filter it and can dispose of the Hydroxoides as dry matter.
 
You can also leave The final neutralized solution in a large black painted bottle under the sun for few months
 
MicheleM said:
You can also leave The final neutralized solution in a large black painted bottle under the sun for few months
Click to expand...
I keep it just in the shed in an open shallow container.
As long as it is not too much it will evaporate nicely.
 

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