Au/Pd/Ni

[bpcp7208]

I have some Au/Pd/Ni all mixed together. I'm wondering if I can melt and cornflake it. Put it in 50/50 HNO3 and distilled to dissolve the Pd/Ni then leach off leaving the Au. Refine the Au normally in AR. The only thing I need help with is, what would I use to precipitate the Pd leaving Ni? As always, thank you everyone for helping me learn along the way!

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Once you have the Pd and Ni in solution, you can cement the Pd on copper, leaving the Ni in solution with the copper that goes into solution cementing the Pd.

Dave

 

[bpcp7208]

I haven't cemented any metals to copper yet. That calls for just adding pure copper to the solutions then waiting correct? Then the Pd cements to the copper turning it into a solid? Should I dilute the the 50/50 mix further to avoid re-dissolving?

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I haven't cemented any metals to copper yet. That calls for just adding pure copper to the solutions then waiting correct?

With some circulation of the solution.

Then the Pd cements to the copper turning it into a solid?

Yes.

Should I dilute the the 50/50 mix further to avoid re-dissolving?

Diluting still leaves any excess oxidizer in solution, just at a lower percentage. Just keep the cementing and circulation going till it no longer redissolves.

Not to be harsh, but if you don't understand the principles of cementing, you really shouldn't be trying these processes yet. Spend more time studying. Continue gathering material. Nickle in solution is quite hazardous. How will you deal with all the toxic waste? Safety first.

Dave

 

[bpcp7208]

I appreciate your concern. I have no plan to mess with the palladium yet. I'm just focusing on building up my stock of precious metals for now until I do fully understand it. I've only done two small test runs with gold only thus far. I read, post on here and have a refining notebook where I've been taking lots of notes. I have also been researching the best way to make an effective fume hood before do any said processes. Only way I can learn is research, ask questions and find my way through some trial and error. Safety is at the top of my concerns for myself and for the environment.

 

[nickvc]

I like your approach but to save confusion as to whether you are attempting to process material simply state that you are asking questions hypothetically to further your knowledge prior to attempting to process it once you have full understanding.
I think we have a good future member in the making so continue the good work and ask away if you don’t understand something, it can get confusing at times.
Good luck and I look forward to seeing your progress.

 

[kurtak]

That calls for just adding pure copper to the solutions then waiting correct?

For the most part simply putting the copper in the solution works for cementing gold or silver (although there are a few things you need to be aware of "when" doing it - but we can talk about that if/when you go to cement gold or silver)

Cementing Pd &/or other PGMs is "a bit" different & you can run into problems if not done right - its not hard to do & works well as long as you do it right

When I first tried to cement Pd I ran into the common problem of cementing Pd (or PGMs) which I posted in this thread (so you can start reading with my first post in this thread)

So if you read & follow the the instruction posted in this thread you should have little or no problem cementing your Pd --- & as I said its not hard once you understand the problem & follow the instruction for doing it right which is discussed in detail in this thread

:arrow: Fuzz Button Interconnects, need some advice

Kurt

 

[kjavanb123]

What I would do is to melt with silver. Dissolve silver bead in nitric, gold would drop, silver and palladium go to solution.

Drop silver as silver chloride, filter brown solution that is your Pd nitrate.

 

[kurtak]

What I would do is to melt with silver. Dissolve silver bead in nitric, gold would drop, silver and palladium go to solution.

That would certainly work - but - he needs to have an idea of how much gold is in the starting Au/Ni/Pd mix so he knows how much silver to add --- to much silver & the gold will come out ultra fine (which "may" cause settling problems) - to little silver & the nitric "may" have a hard time dissolving metals (other then gold)

Drop silver as silver chloride, filter brown solution that is your Pd nitrate.

then cement the Pd nitrate with copper

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

I have some Au/Pd/Ni all mixed together.

Can you tell us the percentages of each of those metals :?:

What form are they in - powder - wire - bars - etc. :?:

How much of it do you have :?:

Kurt

 

[bpcp7208]

I like your approach but to save confusion as to whether you are attempting to process material simply state that you are asking questions hypothetically to further your knowledge prior to attempting to process it once you have full understanding.
I think we have a good future member in the making so continue the good work and ask away if you don’t understand something, it can get confusing at times.
Good luck and I look forward to seeing your progress.

I appreciate the kind words! I will surely specify why I'm asking certain questions. I find chemistry fascinating and look forward to expanding my knowledge!

 

[bpcp7208]

I have some Au/Pd/Ni all mixed together.

Can you tell us the percentages of each of those metals :?:

What form are they in - powder - wire - bars - etc. :?:

How much of it do you have :?:

Kurt

I ordered a new scale that can handle the weight better, the one I had was a tiny cheap one. Once I weigh it I can give a semi accurate weight of what metals are in it. I was just going to cornflake it all because some of it has some binder in it and wanted to burn that all out where I don't know how it would react with the chemicals. Once I have a rough idea of what the weight of metals are in it maybe y'all could tell me whether it would be better to add silver. I know roughly half of it is Ni and the other half is Au and Pd.

 

[kurtak]

Is this the same material you posted about in this thread ?

:arrow: Aqua regia questions pertaining AU and NI fused metal

or something different ?

 

[bpcp7208]

Is this the same material you posted about in this thread ?

:arrow: Aqua regia questions pertaining AU and NI fused metal

or something different ?

Same material, accept I have a couple different types of braze waste that is mixed together. One is the 82% Au / 18% Ni and the other is 36% Pd / 64% Ni.

 

[bpcp7208]

Once you have the Pd and Ni in solution, you can cement the Pd on copper, leaving the Ni in solution with the copper that goes into solution cementing the Pd.

Dave

Could I cement the palladium to zinc? I watched a video of sreetips cementing palladium to zinc at minute 25 in the video. Or would the nickel cause problems with that? Just curious as to what the difference between the copper and zinc, or do that bf o the same thing?

https://youtu.be/XTVJcOUl8bE

 

[nickvc]

I would be tempted to try covering the material in HCl and add a good amount of heat to the vessel, this should remove the nickel and maybe some of the palladium, testing should confirm or deny this but at least you should have a good clean gold material to work with. If you have dissolved any palladium then cement it out of solution following Kurts proven method as described by 4metals.
Try a sample before going full on and see if it works to your satisfaction.

 

[Martijn]

Bpcp7208, you need to understand the reactivity series.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactivity_series
If you have a solution containing several metal salts, you will displace all metals below the one you add as elemental metal in the table.
So adding zinc would cement everything from chromium to platinum out of solution.
Adding copper would cement everything from tungsten to platinum, leaving nickel in solution, giving you the means to separate the two.

This does not mean you can add everything more reactive that's in the table, like lithium e.g. we've had an example of that recently. Just stick to copper and later iron.

Martijn.

 

[bpcp7208]

Bpcp7208, you need to understand the reactivity series.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactivity_series
If you have a solution containing several metal salts, you will displace all metals below the one you add as elemental metal in the table.
So adding zinc would cement everything from chromium to platinum out of solution.
Adding copper would cement everything from tungsten to platinum, leaving nickel in solution, giving you the means to separate the two.

This does not mean you can add everything more reactive that's in the table, like lithium e.g. we've had an example of that recently. Just stick to copper and later iron.

Martijn.

Thank you so much for that information. I'm not ready to process these metals yet. I'm just learning until I know and understand each of the steps. I've been taking notes along the way. The only thing I really need to dig into is properly dealing with the leftover chemicals. I haven't gotten that far yet, I'm going to start going through the forum and Hoke's book and taking notes. I love this forum and I love how you all help and explain everything.

Brandon

 

[butcher]

Brandon,
Smart approach, preparing yourself for success, I think you will go far in this field, I look forward to learning from your future posts.

 

[Martijn]

Dealing with waste:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1300