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Non-Chemical best way for refining in Africa
- Thread starter lucas
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jimdoc
Well-known member
lucas said:
"Fastest way" would be start studying the forum and read Hoke's book.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16555#p167229
Jim
srlaulis
Well-known member
I'll 3rd that. There isn't anything that comes fast on this forum...sorry to break that to you. Knowledge is learned here...not handed out, Lucas. You can start learning by doing as Jimdoc suggested. Use the search box, on this forum, and search for "Refining Precious Metal Wastes," by C.M. Hoke. Download and thoroughly read that book. Once you learn the basics, you can then begin asking questions here. :mrgreen:
Steven
Steven
Hello,
I'm a goldsmith from Belgium.
I know the most of the basics as we've seen most of it at school....long time ago.
As this is a forum I just posted a topic to see what you think what could be the best n fastest way for a difficult place like Africa.
I was not asking for fast answers but for fast way to do those things as that is the best thing to do in those places and working conditions.
I tried to have different points of view on this subject.
Anyway, thank you very much for the nice answers.
Lucas.
I'm a goldsmith from Belgium.
I know the most of the basics as we've seen most of it at school....long time ago.
As this is a forum I just posted a topic to see what you think what could be the best n fastest way for a difficult place like Africa.
I was not asking for fast answers but for fast way to do those things as that is the best thing to do in those places and working conditions.
I tried to have different points of view on this subject.
Anyway, thank you very much for the nice answers.
Lucas.
jimdoc
Well-known member
lucas said:
Best thing is to stay out of there, if you want the real truth.
Jim
Lucas,
Welcome to the forum.
I would probably agree with Jim's last comment to stay away from African goldfields.
But assuming you're intent on doing it, my question would be why you need to refine the material in Africa. Dust and small grains are likely to be relatively pure to start. If you're only talking about 500 grams of fine gold, even if the gold was only 50% pure in it's native form, you'd still only be dealing with 1 kilo. If I were intent on going there and buying a small amount of gold, i'd probably take it as it came and refine it once I returned home.
Perhaps I'm missing something in what you want to accomplish. If so, more details of your adventure might help.
Dave
EDIT:
OK, I just looked at your profile after I posted and saw you are in the Congo. I misinterpreted your comment that you were "a goldsmith from Belgium" as meaning you currently live in Belgium, not that you originated there.
I guess you are home at the moment.
So I'll ask a different question: What chemicals are readily available to you that you might use? Do you have access to hydrochloric acid, nitric acid, laundry bleach, copperas, SMB, etc. What equipment do you have available?
Dave
Welcome to the forum.
I would probably agree with Jim's last comment to stay away from African goldfields.
But assuming you're intent on doing it, my question would be why you need to refine the material in Africa. Dust and small grains are likely to be relatively pure to start. If you're only talking about 500 grams of fine gold, even if the gold was only 50% pure in it's native form, you'd still only be dealing with 1 kilo. If I were intent on going there and buying a small amount of gold, i'd probably take it as it came and refine it once I returned home.
Perhaps I'm missing something in what you want to accomplish. If so, more details of your adventure might help.
Dave
EDIT:
OK, I just looked at your profile after I posted and saw you are in the Congo. I misinterpreted your comment that you were "a goldsmith from Belgium" as meaning you currently live in Belgium, not that you originated there.
I guess you are home at the moment.
So I'll ask a different question: What chemicals are readily available to you that you might use? Do you have access to hydrochloric acid, nitric acid, laundry bleach, copperas, SMB, etc. What equipment do you have available?
Dave
Golddigger Greg
Well-known member
From everything I've seen on goldmining in Africa I'd suggest you become very familiar with a retort and the proper safety precautions for handling mercury. I'd assume all of it to be contaminated and proceed from there.
Hello,
Sorry for the unclear info.
I lived several years in Congo with my parents, just going back for short periods to visit the place.
Meanwhile I live and work as a goldsmith in Belgium.
As goldsmith we're used to melt, boroxide etc but we mostly refine by just using the magnet en melting it, the result is refined by refinery.
In congo I can buy the gold, the refining would be to make sure that the gold they sell is real.
Hydrochloric acid and nitric will be a problem as these acids are dangerous goods to transport.
Laundry bleach, copperas, SMB are not a problem.....but maybe not enough to determine if the material is real.
Thank you very much for all help.
Regards,
Luc.
Sorry for the unclear info.
I lived several years in Congo with my parents, just going back for short periods to visit the place.
Meanwhile I live and work as a goldsmith in Belgium.
As goldsmith we're used to melt, boroxide etc but we mostly refine by just using the magnet en melting it, the result is refined by refinery.
In congo I can buy the gold, the refining would be to make sure that the gold they sell is real.
Hydrochloric acid and nitric will be a problem as these acids are dangerous goods to transport.
Laundry bleach, copperas, SMB are not a problem.....but maybe not enough to determine if the material is real.
Thank you very much for all help.
Regards,
Luc.
So I had it right, then I got it wrong. :|
So you really don't need to refine the gold as much as you need to be able to test it. There are a couple of good references on testing on the forum.
Pawnbroker Bob posted a good article on testing here: The Pawnbrokers Guide to Testing Metals.
Also, the classic work by C. M. Hoke Testing Precious Metals.
I don't know if those will help in your case, as you're talking about dust and small grains. Your eyes may be the best test instrument in these cases. Once you see enough native gold you are unlikely to be fooled. A good magnifying lense (loupe) will go a long way. If you're in doubt, a whack with a small hammer will tell a lot as well.
While you may not be able to transport the acids to Africa, they are surely available there somewhere. Most of us get our hydrochloric acid from either the hardware store, where it is sold as a concrete cleaner, or from pool supply companies.
Dave
So you really don't need to refine the gold as much as you need to be able to test it. There are a couple of good references on testing on the forum.
Pawnbroker Bob posted a good article on testing here: The Pawnbrokers Guide to Testing Metals.
Also, the classic work by C. M. Hoke Testing Precious Metals.
I don't know if those will help in your case, as you're talking about dust and small grains. Your eyes may be the best test instrument in these cases. Once you see enough native gold you are unlikely to be fooled. A good magnifying lense (loupe) will go a long way. If you're in doubt, a whack with a small hammer will tell a lot as well.
While you may not be able to transport the acids to Africa, they are surely available there somewhere. Most of us get our hydrochloric acid from either the hardware store, where it is sold as a concrete cleaner, or from pool supply companies.
Dave
You will want to test the gold before buying, as stated above not all tests would involve chemicals, but chemical tests, or a fire assay may be the most important, for these tests you would need chemicals like nitric and HCl (or at least forms of them), if you could not get these in Africa, then you most likely can get what you need to make them or an alternative, HCl can be made from common salt NaCl and sulfuric acid found in car batteries, nitric acid can be made from a nitrate source like fertilizer KNO3 or NaNO3, nitrates can also be leach from soil or even from bat dung, nitrates and sulfuric acid can form nitric acid.
Their are other things you could use to test for gold, a small fusion of the material in a surplus mix of one part ammonium chloride and 2 1/2 parts ammonium nitrate, this fusion will dissolve gold into the heated salts, this fused salts can then be dissolved in a few drops of HCl, and then wetting a Q tip with the liquid, and dropping a drop of stannous chloride would prove gold that there was in the material, it will not tell you how much gold, just that it was present.
But if I was buying or I would not rely on any of these tests above, although they could work to tell me it was gold.
Buying ore would be different from buying a few karat gold rings.
The ore may come in powder or very small flakes or nuggets; this would make it hard to test each piece chemically.
To do this I think you would be best to set up a lab, or find a lab you can trust, melt the gold to bars, drill the bar in several places, and assay the filings either by a fire assay or chemical assay, to do this yourself it would take a lot of study and work to gain the experience needed, I assume in Africa where they deal with that much gold their are assay offices where you could take, or send the fillings to be assayed.
Their are other things you could use to test for gold, a small fusion of the material in a surplus mix of one part ammonium chloride and 2 1/2 parts ammonium nitrate, this fusion will dissolve gold into the heated salts, this fused salts can then be dissolved in a few drops of HCl, and then wetting a Q tip with the liquid, and dropping a drop of stannous chloride would prove gold that there was in the material, it will not tell you how much gold, just that it was present.
But if I was buying or I would not rely on any of these tests above, although they could work to tell me it was gold.
Buying ore would be different from buying a few karat gold rings.
The ore may come in powder or very small flakes or nuggets; this would make it hard to test each piece chemically.
To do this I think you would be best to set up a lab, or find a lab you can trust, melt the gold to bars, drill the bar in several places, and assay the filings either by a fire assay or chemical assay, to do this yourself it would take a lot of study and work to gain the experience needed, I assume in Africa where they deal with that much gold their are assay offices where you could take, or send the fillings to be assayed.
Take a look at the iGoli process. This is a public domain refining method (based on chlorox/sodium hypochlorite) developed by Mintek of S Africa as a replacement to use of mercury by artisanal miners. Mintek have also developed simple equipment to minimise waste of chlorine gas through off-gassing.
squarecoinman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2013
- Messages
- 140
Hi Lucas Maybe you should not ask your question on this forum , Gold in the congo is the most important source of income of terrorist groups / armed bandits , the gold is mostly dig up by children and a lot of them are forced. The environmental impacts of this are distroying the country , and the only gold that can be bought under market price is illegal gold. Also many people that buy illegal gold will get robbed after they buy the gold.
As far as i can see it there are 2 options
1 you have a licency to buy and export gold, in this case you would pay market price and you may as well buy in belgium, still if you would pure out of fun want to buy and refine in the Congo , read hoke
2 In case you do not have a licence for buying and for export, you should not involve the forum by telling that you want to buy gold dust in the congo. Maybe you are not aware of it but you make other members indirectly involved in breaking UN sanctions ( see Un security counsil resolution 2021 )
if you want some more background reading
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gold-now-top-conflict-mineral-congo-report-082247033--finance.html
scm
As far as i can see it there are 2 options
1 you have a licency to buy and export gold, in this case you would pay market price and you may as well buy in belgium, still if you would pure out of fun want to buy and refine in the Congo , read hoke
2 In case you do not have a licence for buying and for export, you should not involve the forum by telling that you want to buy gold dust in the congo. Maybe you are not aware of it but you make other members indirectly involved in breaking UN sanctions ( see Un security counsil resolution 2021 )
if you want some more background reading
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gold-now-top-conflict-mineral-congo-report-082247033--finance.html
scm
