Can a flotation reagent be added to dropped gold to act as a collector?

[goldshark]

I am just wondering if anybody has used any kind of a flotation reagent to act as an effective collector of gold precipitated from AR solution? Seems like something could be added to an enclosed flask, shaken well with the collector, and have the nano size particles clump with the other size particles. Either skim off or filter, but the main idea would be to collect the naners more efficiently without the fine filtration. Just wondering.

 

[nickvc]

Try heating your solution once you are sure there is no oxidizer left , if you have a clear top to your solution decant that and add water then heat to near boiling that should help settle your gold .

 

[Lino1406]

Flotation agent with air bubbling is used for separating some gold ores from other ores. Coagulation and flocculation is rarely needed

 

[goldshark]

So being a purist, can anybody give results quantifying the above recommendations. I don't have the chemistry back ground to experiment infinitely. Just wondering if anybody has tried such a thought, and what the results were.

Try heating your solution once you are sure there is no oxidizer left , if you have a clear top to your solution decant that and add water then heat to near boiling that should help settle your gold .

Heat to what temperature, specifically, at what PH? These are the questions that we would like to see posted. Specifics, not kind of well close enough. Unless this is really close.Still wondering if anybody has tried a xanthate, or pine oil coagulation experiment with SMG dropped, washed Au, to conclude that it is a viable recovery technique. Any moderators on this?

 

[Yggdrasil]

So being a purist, can anybody give results quantifying the above recommendations. I don't have the chemistry back ground to experiment infinitely. Just wondering if anybody has tried such a thought, and what the results were.

Heat to what temperature, specifically, at what PH? These are the questions that we would like to see posted. Specifics, not kind of well close enough. Unless this is really close.Still wondering if anybody has tried a xanthate, or pine oil coagulation experiment with SMG dropped, washed Au, to conclude that it is a viable recovery technique. Any moderators on this?

I’m just guessing here, but did you mean SMB here?

 

[Shark]

Did you mean DMG?
They way your posing the questions it seems unclear what your asking. If AR and the precipitant are used right. I see no reason for needing additional chemicals to “coagulate” the particle’s. I usually decant my gold drop, not filter it out.

 

[goldshark]

I am wondering how some type of flotation reagent ( a xanthate or pine oil), would react on freshly SMB dropped Au. I don't know if I am stating correctly. I am asking if a collector could be added to float the nano size particles into a clump, which could then be skimmed from the surface, along with the courser particles, dried, then fired to bullion, or if a surfactant could be used to depress, then decant the clumped Au particles. Ultimately, I am trying to skip the fine filtration step via floating, or depressing, then skim or decant, depending on selection process. If this is viable, it would eliminate the loss to the stock pot for reprocessing. Wondering if anybody has ever experimented with such a process. An analogy would be to add Mercury to pure Au powder, then agitated vigorously. the Mercury creating amalgam. Obviously Mercury would have a rough go of amalgamating the nano size particles, a properly engineered conditioner/ collector series would be much more effective. At least in theory.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I am wondering how some type of flotation reagent ( a xanthate or pine oil), would react on freshly SMB dropped Au. I don't know if I am stating correctly. I am asking if a collector could be added to float the nano size particles into a clump, which could then be skimmed from the surface, along with the courser particles, dried, then fired to bullion, or if a surfactant could be used to depress, then decant the clumped Au particles. Ultimately, I am trying to skip the fine filtration step via floating, or depressing, then skim or decant, depending on selection process. If this is viable, it would eliminate the loss to the stock pot for reprocessing. Wondering if anybody has ever experimented with such a process. An analogy would be to add Mercury to pure Au powder, then agitated vigorously. the Mercury creating amalgam. Obviously Mercury would have a rough go of amalgamating the nano size particles, a properly engineered conditioner/ collector series would be much more effective. At least in theory.

A relatively concentrated solution don’t need this.

 

[orvi]

I am wondering how some type of flotation reagent ( a xanthate or pine oil), would react on freshly SMB dropped Au. I don't know if I am stating correctly. I am asking if a collector could be added to float the nano size particles into a clump, which could then be skimmed from the surface, along with the courser particles, dried, then fired to bullion, or if a surfactant could be used to depress, then decant the clumped Au particles. Ultimately, I am trying to skip the fine filtration step via floating, or depressing, then skim or decant, depending on selection process. If this is viable, it would eliminate the loss to the stock pot for reprocessing. Wondering if anybody has ever experimented with such a process. An analogy would be to add Mercury to pure Au powder, then agitated vigorously. the Mercury creating amalgam. Obviously Mercury would have a rough go of amalgamating the nano size particles, a properly engineered conditioner/ collector series would be much more effective. At least in theory.

From chemical side, you absolutely do not want to work with xanthate you will end up like Bunsen, when his wife refused to have s.x or any physical contact with him, because he smelled even after several baths

Smells aside. Sure, flotation, if tuned right will certainly work on freshly dropped gold. But there is important question: how can it help in the process, to collect gold by flotation ?

Simply said, you will need to make a flotation rig with tunable air bubbler, add some "detergent" to the water to make froth, and elaborate some skimming technique or better, skimming device to collect foam.
Now you have gold foam in some bowl or something. What next ? What we gained by performing this procedure ? Can we assure 98+% recovery rate by this flotation in home-made setup ?

From my point of view, it is much quicker to use some good flocculent. When dropping the gold from diluted solutions, it can become handy. Drop the gold with SMB or sulfite, stir, wait like 1 hour for the solution to become cloudy and add flocculent dissolved in water. Stir for a minute, filter. Take filter, dissolve in AR and re-drop the concentrated gold solution. This will produce very nice dense, heavy precipitate upon boiling. Decanting easy like it was sand in the beaker

Only way how this flotation could become handy is to pre-concentrate the gold into smaller volume of something (foam, suspension, liquid etc.), which then could be redissolved with AR and re-dropped.

I actually like the idea, and I wanted to elaborate small flotation rig for my ore concentration experiments. But I am afraid you won´t benefit from this in long run.

 

[nickvc]

So being a purist, can anybody give results quantifying the above recommendations. I don't have the chemistry back ground to experiment infinitely. Just wondering if anybody has tried such a thought, and what the results were.

Heat to what temperature, specifically, at what PH? These are the questions that we would like to see posted. Specifics, not kind of well close enough. Unless this is really close.Still wondering if anybody has tried a xanthate, or pine oil coagulation experiment with SMG dropped, washed Au, to conclude that it is a viable recovery technique. Any moderators on this?

I have never bothered with exact measurements except when looking at the expected yield , with the heating as I stated as long as you have no oxidizers present the ph is to me irrelevant and as to temperature until it settles enough to decant some of the solution off and add a good volume of water and then you can boil it.

 

[Shark]

I am a bit fuzzy on this but there is a reagent that can be used with a sepratory (spelling?) funnel. I think dmg does it. It collects the gold and settles to the bottom and is drained through the lower port.

This is about all I recall on the subject but I am sure others can get it better explained than I can.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I think it is something else, not DiMethylGlyoxime DMG.
But yes there are substances that do that.

 

[Shark]

I will not even try to spell it right but a search for BDG should find it. It is a chemical that will pull the gold from AR directly. If still having problems search for sepratory funnel. Both were search’s of the forum.

 

[goldshark]

Thanks for all replies. I have done a couple SMB precipitations. Course particles are easy to deal with. It is the nano size which seems to take forever to settle, and a very fine filter generally doesn't catch it all. My glass ware is only beakers, I don't have access to a bunch of different ware. Just wondering about some alternative methods.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Easy to say, but simply speaking, make sure the conditions that create micro fine particles don't occur
Keep the solution relatively concentrated and hot if possible.
Oxalic and Ascorbic creates good precipitate if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Shark]

Very often those few remaining particles that seem to take forever to settle are the most contaminated with other metals. I decant those to a separate container, not my stock pot. Allow them to settle, in an acidic environment. When I have enough I process them separately. It has been my experiences that they have other metals and often they are small bits of other pgm’s. The volume per run is so small that for each lot that I loose almost nothing in the weight of the gold recovered. Having tried processing them and attempting to clean those small bits took a lot more time and effort than doing them separately does. They also are most often less gold than other metals and in turn removing them leaves me with a cleaner button of gold by removing them in bulk.

From my secondary container I also add any rinse water making for a dilute volume of acid. My favorite container to use are 1.25 liter flower vases, just because I have so many of them. After settling between batch’s, usually a week or so, I siphon off the clear solution and repeat additions from the next batch.

I am not sure that helps you but it is how I do it for mixed lots that give problems.

 

[goldshark]

All good advice, thank you all.

 

[campbellj46]

I have found it is easier to get the gold to collect itself. I use a magnetic stir bar and add SMB, let it stir for about 10 minutes and turn off to let it settle. What I'm left with is clear solution with 1 large sponge. Wash until rinse water has a neutral pH, using test strips. Dry and weigh it up. 1 large sponge is easier to deal with than nano particles.

Alternatively, I have used a centrifuge to get the gold to clump. The density and weight of gold will always seperate itself from everything in solution. Add high speed spinning action, that weight turns it into a "magnet" that grabs other particles. After the centrifuge, you can see layers. Gold on bottom, platinum above gold, palladium then other lighter metals if any are present.

Centrifugal force is a lot easier than using flocculent, reagents or leeching.

 

[grainsofgold]

Platinum is more dense than Au - so why after using a centrifuge is the Pt not on the bottom layer ?

Curious

 

[campbellj46]

Platinum is more dense than Au - so why after using a centrifuge is the Pt not on the bottom layer ?

Curious

I probably listed them out of order. I don't get much palladium to mess with.