Continual Precipitate 'Aluminium Recovery' Question

[user 72646]

Hi

I have dropped a gold solution with Aluminium, then filtered powders.
After filtering I the added another piece of aluminium to solution, and had another reaction and precipitation. I then filtered powders and added another piece of aluminium to solution and got another reaction, and again a powder precipitate.

So when will the reactions stop?

If the First drop recovered all metals below aluminium, then what happens on the next reaction? I assume that the First reaction recovered metals, so does the second and third reaction drop specific metals below aluminium, even though the First drop has already done this?

First Recover will be for example Au, Ag, Cu, Fe, Pt, Pd and everything below..Aluminium
Second Recovery.....?
Third recovery..........? and so on....

As aluminium goes into solution and weakens the HCL (i assume)

Is the metal which is recovered determined by acidity levels or the new chloride which has formed after initial drop?

That is, First recovery....strong acidity (metal recovered eg. au ag pt pd fe, cu)
Second weakened solution Alcl (i believe) an aluminium chloride precipitates what and why?
Again the third instance would be an AlCl+? which like the First precipitated a powder?
Note the solution has had 3 instances of aluminium recovery and still precipitates.....'something'?

Would the aluminium ions exchange with themselves, and just repeat reaction?


So far my variables/questions
Strength of solution, does this determine anything? (in terms of what comes down)
What the solution becomes after First recovery with aluminium would it be an (AlCl)+Sn?+Zn?+Fe?

Does the solution continue exchanging ions and would this impact what metals that are subsequently dropped out of solution?

How would I calculate on reactivity table?

Hope this makes sense

MM

 

[Alondro]

Why would you drop PMs with such a reactive metal? That makes no sense at all.

Use COPPER to drop the PMs, then you can drop copper from the filtered solution with IRON. There's no reason to go further than that, because aluminum costs far more than iron.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi

I have dropped a gold solution with Aluminium, then filtered powders.
After filtering I the added another piece of aluminium to solution, and had another reaction and precipitation. I then filtered powders and added another piece of aluminium to solution and got another reaction, and again a powder precipitate.

So when will the reactions stop?

If the First drop recovered all metals below aluminium, then what happens on the next reaction? I assume that the First reaction recovered metals, so does the second and third reaction drop specific metals below aluminium, even though the First drop has already done this?

First Recover will be for example Au, Ag, Cu, Fe, Pt, Pd and everything below..Aluminium
Second Recovery.....?
Third recovery..........? and so on....

As aluminium goes into solution and weakens the HCL (i assume)

Is the metal which is recovered determined by acidity levels or the new chloride which has formed after initial drop?

That is, First recovery....strong acidity (metal recovered eg. au ag pt pd fe, cu)
Second weakened solution Alcl (i believe) an aluminium chloride precipitates what and why?
Again the third instance would be an AlCl+? which like the First precipitated a powder?
Note the solution has had 3 instances of aluminium recovery and still precipitates.....'something'?

Would the aluminium ions exchange with themselves, and just repeat reaction?


So far my variables/questions
Strength of solution, does this determine anything? (in terms of what comes down)
What the solution becomes after First recovery with aluminium would it be an (AlCl)+Sn?+Zn?+Fe?

Does the solution continue exchanging ions and would this impact what metals that are subsequently dropped out of solution?

How would I calculate on reactivity table?

Hope this makes sense

MM

Is this the same solution as before?
If so, DO NOT MAKE NEW THREADS!
Keep it together with the rest!

 

[Mariusz K]

first precipitae: noble metals
then- copper
then all below copper it means pb,sn and ni ,co then fe bla bla

 

[Paul Allee]

There's no mention of a stannous test, meaning you probably had other metals in solution and they didn't all drop the first time. Experiments verify, if you use a really active metal to drop your gold, it is contaminated with the active metal.
Also, if your initial solution was very dirty with mixed metals, it is possible a bunch of stuff comes out of solution immediately then after dissolving enough aluminum, some of what comes out goes back into solution because everything is happening one atom at a time. Basically if you had dropped some aluminum in but had more metals dissolved in solution than that, when all the aluminum is dissolved, excess free acid then goes to work on what had crashed out, redisolving some of your reactive metals too. Thus another displacement. Stannous tests can tell you when you got the gold dropped and the rest is base. Don't drop the base.

 

[user 72646]

Hi

I got varied results with stannous...from Black to Dark browns.

The powders also varied to colour, jet black to brown, one batch golden brown.

I have more powders to be dissolved and dropped with Copperas (Iron sulphate) or SMB.

I saw the stannous as a palladium positive? other solutions (200ml x4) had positive for gold, Black and again dark burgandy red (hint) brown. I smelted some of the powders (experiment) soda Ash flux & some (tin pins) 0.4 grams.

I got back a bit of gold (golden brown powder) and Pd from Black powders, I believe.

There is difference in metals retrieved and materials used for flux. So I can assume some of the powders smelted.

I took some close ups and compared texture to other photos of Pd in metallic form (from Web).

It is an ugly smelt, but as the stannous gave Pd positive and there is a likeness (in texture) could this be a tiny bit of Palladium?

MM

 

[Mariusz K]

palladium you will dissolv e by nitric only

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi

I got varied results with stannous...from Black to Dark browns.

The powders also varied to colour, jet black to brown, one batch golden brown.

I have more powders to be dissolved and dropped with Copperas (Iron sulphate) or SMB.

I saw the stannous as a palladium positive? other solutions (200ml x4) had positive for gold, Black and again dark burgandy red (hint) brown. I smelted some of the powders (experiment) soda Ash flux & some (tin pins) 0.4 grams.

I got back a bit of gold (golden brown powder) and Pd from Black powders, I believe.

There is difference in metals retrieved and materials used for flux. So I can assume some of the powders smelted.

I took some close ups and compared texture to other photos of Pd in metallic form (from Web).

It is an ugly smelt, but as the stannous gave Pd positive and there is a likeness (in texture) could this be a tiny bit of Palladium?

MM

Again, you have not shown one positive Stannous test so far.
Is this the same material?
There is absolutely no reason to have Pd in it if that is correct.
Thematically you described in the beginning have the capacity to have a few mg of Gold, but practically no Pd or Silver.
You seem to have learned nothing and show no inkling to follow the advice given.
So if you do not come back and ask for advice before the next batch postings/pictures, I really do not know how to handle your "rants", I really do not have smaller spoons to feed you.

Start by showing your tests.
And then ask before each step after.
How much waste have you created so far?

 

[user 72646]

palladium you will dissolv e by nitric only

not hcl & bleach?

 

[user 72646]

Again, you have not shown one positive Stannous test so far.
Is this the same material?
There is absolutely no reason to have Pd in it if that is correct.
Thematically you described in the beginning have the capacity to have a few mg of Gold, but practically no Pd or Silver.
You seem to have learned nothing and show no inkling to follow the advice given.
So if you do not come back and ask for advice before the next batch postings/pictures, I really do not know how to handle your "rants", I really do not have smaller spoons to feed you.

Start by showing your tests.
And then ask before each step after.
How much waste have you created so far?

Hi
No waste, too many positive readings...im processing everything. (then adding urea to lower PH)
I have positive readings., and a brown precipitate. but it has a green copper trace? (one batch)
Also built a cementation tank.
I Will Hcl & bleach powders then *test" with stannous then attempt to cement gold powders in solution with tank?

MM

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi
No waste, too many positive readings...im processing everything. (then adding urea to lower PH) Wrong, and why?
I have positive readings., and a brown precipitate. but it has a green copper trace? (one batch) Show us please!
Also built a cementation tank.
I Will Hcl & bleach powders then *test" with stannous then attempt to cement gold powders in solution with tank?
You can not cement something that is not there! We are not dealing with Alchemy!!

MM

I'm out of spoons, but will try anyway!

Urea will rise the pH not lower.

And why in the world do you want to use Urea in a solution with no Nitric in it???

You demonstrate quite clearly that you do not understand what you are doing!!
Please stop NOW and study.
Present your Idea here!
Do not do anything until you have a clear go from the Forum.

So far you have shown us NO positive result for Gold , Silver or Pd.
Which is almost consistent with your starting material, there should have been a bit of Gold.
I assume that is left behind in one of your cementation experiments.

The only reason I do not give you a "Study Vacation" is that you can't post your plan then!

 

[Shark]

Do not do anything until you have a clear go from the Forum.

At Midasmitch:
Please respond to this comment from Yggdrasil. It could make the difference in future offers to help you.

 

[user 72646]

I'm out of spoons, but will try anyway!

Urea will rise the pH not lower.

And why in the world do you want to use Urea in a solution with no Nitric in it???

You demonstrate quite clearly that you do not understand what you are doing!!
Please stop NOW and study.
Present your Idea here! ;east
Do not do anything until you have a clear go from the Forum.

So far you have shown us NO positive result for Gold , Silver or Pd.
Which is almost consistent with your starting material, there should have been a bit of Gold.
I assume that is left behind in one of your cementation experiments.

The only reason I do not give you a "Study Vacation" is that you can't post your plan then!

Hi

Can I at least dissolve and test powders?
And then post all my stannous results?
MM

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi

Can I at least dissolve and test powders?
And then post all my stannous results?
MM

What about your previous results, no pictures?

 

[user 72646]

Hi,
here are some tests.
there was a slow colourization, maybe the stannous is weak?
The faint signal on the smaller spoon is (taken from a hcl and bleach solution that I am processing powders & filters with, it was around 20mins into reaction).
Various signals some look like Pd and Au?
The signals are still gradually getting darker, again maybe an issue with stannous.
MM

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi,
here are some tests.
there was a slow colourization, maybe the stannous is weak?
The faint signal on the smaller spoon is (taken from a hcl and bleach solution that I am processing powders & filters with, it was around 20mins into reaction).
Various signals some look like Pd and Au?
The signals are still gradually getting darker, again maybe an issue with stannous.
MM

Not one of these look like a positive for neither Gold nor Pd.

For best visibility take a cotton bud or a strip of paper, then drip a drop of the solution to be tested on the bud/paper and then afterwards drip a drop of stannous next to not on top of the solution drop.
Then the stannous and testing solution will merge gradually and you will have a contact front showing good Color if positive.
If the solution have excess oxidizer, the color may fade after a while.


Just to remind you how it should look.