Cost of refining gold

[KalleMP]

Hi Good people,

There was a thread about the rising price of gold just recently.

I have a different question, not expecting anyone to give up any trade secrets but to give a potential refiner another data point to decide if an offer of e-waste or low karat or plated jewellery is a viable deal.

When starting out a lot of cost is in apparatus but when refining regularly the shift is to consumables. It is the consumable cost that I am most interested in.

So for those who keep track of such things and don't mind giving an approximate guide price please offer your estimate.

Distilled water, gas, electricity, filter papers, silver, chemicals are the interesting things. If one of them stands out as a deal breaker or as irrelevant, mention that as well if you like. Lastly if you are not keeping a very low profile mention the country you operate in.

Price in your currency of choice or convert to Euros and make the price per gramme so it is easy to be sure of the units.

Basically what is the cost X to refine Y gramme of gold into a button of your estimated Z fineness.
If you want to indicate how much it costs to re-refine that would also be useful.

 

[andu]

It doesn't work that way, it isn't such a simple math, it mostly depends on the quality of your scrap and surprises aren't always pleasant.
Only thing I'd think about is the zone you in and the cost of the acid, HCL for example is pretty cheap here still, nitric not THAT expensive but it is very hard to get ahold of, we do have a fair amount of perhaps overpriced nitrates (25l of 60% nitric cost 50e while 25kg of potassium nitrate cost 110e here in spain)
(no idea how much nitric nor potency you get with nitrates)

For distilled water i'd look into a osmosis system and start it up properly
Not sure you'll use much electricity unless you perhaps have a fume hood, most consumables aren't to be thought of.

You shouldn't think of plated jewelry unless you get it perhaps for free or really cheap, you will probably lose money.
I don't yet know what filters to get but sreetips does mention what filters he gets in some vid.

Again, you can't know with precision the exact cost to refine.

 

[eaglekeeper]

I can only speak for myself at a hobbyist level.

One issue that some people over look is finding a place to sell their refined metal. Once you destroy the markings/known content items, it will make it harder to sell locally...at least for me.

Do you have a place that will buy your refined metal?...If they require an assay before they buy it, that will be a cost.

How much under Spot will they buy your metal?.....being under spot should be considered a cost.

If they do buy your metal, will you be required to pay tax on the sale?...cost.

Lastly if you are not keeping a very low profile mention the country you operate in.

Not that were doing anything wrong....but low profile is my advice. Mentioning the word "Lab" now a days, some people always associates that word with illegal activity....especially in this part of Florida/lower Alabama.

 

[andu]

This dude is right about everything, yeah you can't trust people.

 

[goldshark]

The cost most over looked, is your labor. It will take almost the same amount of time to do a refining of 1 gramme, as it does to do an ounce. So correspondingly, your refines will yield more for a bigger refine, then a small one. If one only wishes the cost per gramme without the initial lab ware, chemicals ,etc., which would be foolish, then yes, a number can be given, but again will vary , depending on consumables from locale to locale. I started a thread on refining costs about 6 months ago, but didn't get much of a response.

 

[nickvc]

There is no one answer unless you refine the same material all the time and that will also have the caveat on the quantity, it will also depend on what chemicals you use to process that scrap and which processes you use.
Low yield scrap is the most costly in time and money as you use more acids / chemicals which is why refiners charge more to process it.

 

[kurtak]

Basically what is the cost X to refine Y gramme of gold into a button of your estimated Z fineness.

As other have pointed out - there is NO such thing as a X/Y/Z formula/calculation to determine YOUR cost to refine (& there by calculate profit based on cost)

To many factors to be factored in

Distilled water, gas, electricity, filter papers, silver, chemicals

just for starters - the cost of those things - where you live - are more then likely going to be different then where I live --- & that is just the tip of the iceberg

Kurt

 

[DarkspARCS]

Lol...

Let me jump up and down beating my chest...

This forum thread is about everything other than refining...
Thus the "... NO REFINING" part of it's title.

 

[galenrog]

Lol...

Let me jump up and down beating my chest...

This forum thread is about everything other than refining...
Thus the "... NO REFINING" part of it's title.

View attachment 56287

No. The title of this thread is “Cost of refining gold”.

The title of this section of the Forum is “General Gold Refining Discussion”.

Either you have this section confused with the section titled “General Gold Discussion - No Refining”, or you have other motives.

Time to get back on point.

Echoing those who have posted earlier, there is no single formula for determining the costs refining unless your feedstocks and all other costs are fixed. Even then, there are variables.

What many members have done is begin as a learning experience. A hobby, if you want a word. After learning much, a few of these intrepid souls took the next step and began as a part time business. Even fewer, after learning many refining and business skills, quit other jobs to refine full time.

My advice, go slow. Stick to a budget while learning. Keep track of all costs, and all your labor. You will know within several months if this is profitable.

Time for more coffee.

 

[snoman701]

E-scrap and plated goods are generally processed such that they are sold to a copper refinery. They are sampled and assayed as part of the sale and a price is agreed upon based upon the precious metal content as well as copper. The copper refinery then melts the lot, likely with other lots. These are melted into copper anodes, and electrolytically refined. That which remains following the dissolution of the copper anode contains the precious metals as well as some copper. These are further refined downstream.

That is why it is so difficult to ultimately tell you it costs "XXX" per ounce to refine gold from e-scrap to fine gold.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Galen, darkspARCS was right. I moved the thread here earlier, but didn't make a post saying I had.

Dave

 

[galenrog]

Galen, darkspARCS was right. I moved the thread here earlier, but didn't make a post saying I had.

Dave

That being the case, I may owe someone an apology, not knowing where it was originally posted.

 

[nwinther]

While I'm sure there is no precise formula, wouldn't it be possible for some of the actual refiners in here to say, well, last year, I refined X grams of gold at a cost of Y, averaging to Z pr. gram. (Perhaps excluding the cost of setting up a lab).

Even if it's a hobby, don't you keep some kind of account?

 

[nickvc]

While I'm sure there is no precise formula, wouldn't it be possible for some of the actual refiners in here to say, well, last year, I refined X grams of gold at a cost of Y, averaging to Z pr. gram. (Perhaps excluding the cost of setting up a lab).

Even if it's a hobby, don't you keep some kind of account?

Even this calculation will not get you an answer that is reliable again because of exactly what was refined and how , then you add in bonus metals such as silver or PGMs which will consume chemicals and time to recover but not be reported in the amount of income earned just looking at gold refined.
The only thing you can calculate is if you are actually making a profit , total all expenses and subtract that from sales and stock in hand and that is your answer.
You can easily calculate what your cost per gram is but that may well have no relation to others costs.

 

[kurtak]

This forum thread is about everything other than refining...

Per the bold print - DarkspARCS - you are wrong & not just wrong but absolutely wrong !!!

This discussion is exactly what it says - the cost of refining - when refining - besides the actual act/process of refining I need to factor in the cost invested into that act/process in order to determine whether the act/process is profitable - or not

It will cost me money for chems to do the refining

I will cost me time to do the refining

it will cost me time to get the materials to refine (tear down computers & or de-populate CBs) &/or money to buy the materials

These are just some of the costs to be considered to do the act/process of refining

If those costs are not part of the actual refining I don't know what those costs are ?

Please explain to me how the cost of refining is not part of the discussion of refining DarkspARCS

Kurt

 

[stella polaris]

Kalle, the best estimate you can do is to check a type of scrap with known amount of PM.

The gold value minus the scrap value is the refining cost, taxes and profit. In a well functioning market the profit is someting around 8-12%. Small scale hobby is much more expensive than large scale industrial processing. You need the prices a large scale refiner gives in order to make a good analysis.

 

[kurtak]

It is the consumable cost that I am most interested in.

KalleMP - as I (& others) have pointed out - there simply is no way for me or anyone else to give you a "set cost" on refining - your cost is going to be determined by MANY factors in your particular situation

Just as one example - YOUR cost of chems

Lets use nitric acid as an example - most members here a small hobby refiners so buy nitric in small amounts (1 to 8 liters) & from what members have posted here on the forum their cost of nitric can very anywhere form $20 to $40 & even as high as $60 per liter when buying these small amounts of nitric

On the other hand - when I was making a living full time refining I was buying my nitric in bulk which came in a 60 liter keg so I was only paying about $2.50 per liter

There is a HUGE difference in paying $2.50 per liter & paying $20 to $40 & even as high as $60 per liter

So there's just no way to give you a real cost when what you might have to pay for nitric may be way different then what I pay for nitric

that's just one example

Then there is the question of the cost of obtaining the materials to refine - you may live in an area where you can find all the E-scrap you ever need for your refining for free - or you may live in an area where it is so hard to find material to refine that you need to go to Ebay & pay a VERY high price - or you may find sources of material that are cheap (but not free) or pay a high' (but not VERY high) price

Where & what material you are able to get your hands on & the price you have to pay for it in your area are likely to be much different then the area I live in

Again - these examples are just the tip of the iceberg

Kurt

 

[Shark]

Often, for the small refiner costs can vary at times even when using the same materials. I often try new methods. At times I cannot get chemicals last minute and I buy from another place that is slightly higher. Often I have used chemical work around’s as well, which changes the amount of time it takes and uses other consumables that I normally wouldn’t use. For me refining is as much about the learning as it is about the refining. Often I have worked material knowing it would not be viable money wise but the knowledge gained often helped in other areas. With all that said, it has been rare the last few years that I broke even (once in 5 years) and so far have never lost money working individual lots, at least for gold.

 

[Darkthirty]

Often, for the small refiner costs can vary at times even when using the same materials. I often try new methods. At times I cannot get chemicals last minute and I buy from another place that is slightly higher. Often I have used chemical work around’s as well, which changes the amount of time it takes and uses other consumables that I normally wouldn’t use. For me refining is as much about the learning as it is about the refining. Often I have worked material knowing it would not be viable money wise but the knowledge gained often helped in other areas. With all that said, it has been rare the last few years that I broke even (once in 5 years) and so far have never lost money working individual lots, at least for gold.

Sounds like the definition of a hobby. Yet, the skills and education learned while engaging in an interesting though expensive hobby may blossom into a lucrative business when opportunity knocks.

 

[nickvc]

This needs to stop as we all agree there is no sensible answer to this question .
As stated you can determine the costs to you but that has little to no real information that relates to anyone else, what has been missed is the knowledge and skill to recover and refine at a reasonable cost and time , this is where the forum should
help, the rest is up to you.