I don't know where to begin with this, try to make a long story short. I lost my job in March with no likely hood of work anytime in the near future due to the virus crap. I must apologise in advance for my agrevation. Politics and corporate America gave up and lost nothing but continue to get rich as americans suffer. I have been kinda is desperation mode to try to make anything I can from processing my material, This used to be a hobby but circumstances have changed. I'm not looking to try to get rich, just able to pay my bills. I constantly hear get assays and so on well here we go, upon draining my savings to do this, 4 xrfs(all over the place with no consistency) 2 fire assays ( completely contradict each other) 3 A A's done with ray grimmer lab services ( reports look good but questionable) 72 element with Reed labs( basically very costly xrf at $300, do not recommend this test get same results for $50 anywhere else) These were just in the past month. All in all excessive amount of money spent, weeks of waiting on reports and left scratching my head saying Wow!! The real money maker is these labs, funny they stand behind their tests and equipment but "round robin" method shows it's all garbage, discrepancies all across the board. For those that read this I suggest extreme caution on any analysis services here in the states!!
Credibility of assayers? Be cautious!
- Thread starter Spunky1
- Start date
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Sorry to hear you have had hard times. It's something many of us have been through, not that it helps you out to know you are not alone.
I've been living all spring from selling stuff online. I got some work over summer but now I'm back scrapping and selling online again. Instead of refining scrap I try to get more than metal value by selling and it actually works quite well.
Back to subject, what did you send in? Ore, components, refined gold? Without details it's hard to say if you sent bad samples or the labs gave you bad reports.
With XRF you have to know how the test is done and be aware of the drawbacks. For example XRF doesn't see light elements as beryllium or lithium and many aren't programmed for non-metallic elements. XRF is a good tool used correctly and can give very exact results, but if you use a hammer for driving in a screw, the result might not be what you expect.
Göran
I've been living all spring from selling stuff online. I got some work over summer but now I'm back scrapping and selling online again. Instead of refining scrap I try to get more than metal value by selling and it actually works quite well.
Back to subject, what did you send in? Ore, components, refined gold? Without details it's hard to say if you sent bad samples or the labs gave you bad reports.
With XRF you have to know how the test is done and be aware of the drawbacks. For example XRF doesn't see light elements as beryllium or lithium and many aren't programmed for non-metallic elements. XRF is a good tool used correctly and can give very exact results, but if you use a hammer for driving in a screw, the result might not be what you expect.
Göran
Basically ive been trying to confirm what I have as for values. I have been using ssn on the material. It is dredge concentrates. I have tried to get accurate reports for years now on material, while testing, different precipitates and so on with reports never consistent. The recent material reports is ssn Leach precipitates. I have all the precipitates separated by batch and so on so when I have sent samples they are same batch sent to various places. As I mentioned in previous post 4- xrfs,2-fire assay, 3-AA's, 1-expensive xrf, and nothing remotely matching each other. I just had a guy in florida volunteer to test with xrf. He spent about a week with precipitates trying various ways and each time he scanned all metals amounts and types changed each time, he couldn't get routine hits. He apologized and suggested A A's, I mentioned that I already had 3 done. I'm at a loss on what to do or who to believe. AA's to me are questionable as well due the silver amounts. I had one guy few years back test bulk dredge concentrates(cost $150 for this). He seemed very knowledgeable and helpful over the phone til after he tested it, only to do a 180 on me wanting to know where I was getting it, how and so on and getting very pissed off at me for not saying. I won't forget that whole phone conversation. It's frustrating because I'm investing a lot of time and money into all this based on reports and unfortunately refineries near me won't touch without reports.
kurtak
Well-known member
Spunky1 said:
So - if I understand right - you are sending in the precipitated "powders" recovered from your leach - is that right ?
If so - then the next question is how are you precipitating metals from the leach ?
The reason I ask is (as example) if you are using zinc to precipitate (common with SSN leach) then you will be dropping all metals below zinc (so base metals along with PMs)
IF (big if) that is the case then you will not get accurate assays - even though the assays come from the same batch
Why ? --- because the precipitated powders will never be homogenous (uniform) --- in other words - if you have a pile of powders - some areas of the pile will be high in base metal & low in PMs - while other areas of the pile will be high in PMs but low in base metal
so - depending on where in the pile you pull the sample from - that assay will be different then another sample you pull - from the same pile
Even with a more selective precipitate - SSN leaches are difficult to get "a clean" drop because you will likely get "drag down" of different metals from an SSN leach --- so you will (likely) still have the same problem (more or less)
Bottom line - it is unlikely you will get accurate assays of "powders" dropped from "dirty solutions"
The powders should first be cleaned up with proper washes - & then melted & poured to a bar (or solid chunk of metal) & then the bar - which is a more uniform alloy can be assayed giving you a much more accurate assay --- you will not get accurate assays from powders (dropped from dirty solutions) even though the powders are from the same batch
Note; - you don't need to do the washes before melting - you will just get a dirtier alloy - which will still give you an accurate assay of the PMs recovered from that batch
Kurt
Spunky1
Wow! Did I wake up after reading that your source material is from "dredge concenstrate", that you are using an SSN leach and are trying to survive this insanity we are all living within by supplementing your income through, what I assume, is a combination of gold mining and your refining skills.
I don't want to hi-jack your thread. So, I sent you a PM with all of my personal contact information. I would really like to pursue an exchange of information on these subjects. I have many years of dredging/mining experience (enough to know what I don't know), some years of frustrating PM refining (frustrating because I started my refining by using only eWaste), and I am totally fascinated by PM refining of mining concentrates through mechanical and chemical means.
Also, you stated "had one guy few years back test bulk dredge concentrates(cost $150 for this). He seemed very knowledgeable and helpful over the phone til after he tested it, only to do a 180 on me wanting to know where I was getting it, how and so on and getting very pissed off at me for not saying. I won't forget that whole phone conversation." I know of two "refiners" who say they specialize in chemically refining black sand concentrates on a bulk basis using environmentally safe processes. I have never used them so I can not provide a personal recommendation but I could provide links. By "dredge concentrates", I am assuming that you are specifically referring to black sand concentrates. Yes?
Please continue with your determination to overcome the obstacles you face.
Peace and health,
James
Wow! Did I wake up after reading that your source material is from "dredge concenstrate", that you are using an SSN leach and are trying to survive this insanity we are all living within by supplementing your income through, what I assume, is a combination of gold mining and your refining skills.
I don't want to hi-jack your thread. So, I sent you a PM with all of my personal contact information. I would really like to pursue an exchange of information on these subjects. I have many years of dredging/mining experience (enough to know what I don't know), some years of frustrating PM refining (frustrating because I started my refining by using only eWaste), and I am totally fascinated by PM refining of mining concentrates through mechanical and chemical means.
Also, you stated "had one guy few years back test bulk dredge concentrates(cost $150 for this). He seemed very knowledgeable and helpful over the phone til after he tested it, only to do a 180 on me wanting to know where I was getting it, how and so on and getting very pissed off at me for not saying. I won't forget that whole phone conversation." I know of two "refiners" who say they specialize in chemically refining black sand concentrates on a bulk basis using environmentally safe processes. I have never used them so I can not provide a personal recommendation but I could provide links. By "dredge concentrates", I am assuming that you are specifically referring to black sand concentrates. Yes?
Please continue with your determination to overcome the obstacles you face.
Peace and health,
James
