Non-Chemical Crushing cats into powder b4 recovery

[chrisv]

I have noticed a few questions on the forum about crushing the cats b4 staring to recover the Pm's from them and haven't seen many answers, rather folk saying it might work or it might not 8)
So, I thought I'd be the test dummy and give it a bash, also, please note, somebody might have tried it and I havent read that post but just thought I'd share it with you again anyway, lol
SO, I took some cats(500grms) cut them into nice bite size bits, then put them in a clean paint(5L) bucket and followed through with my 10lb demo hammer and cruched the lot into a nice fine powder.
What I have gathered so far, is that the carbon is tending to be a problem, as the heat increases while processing in AR, the carbon rises to the surface to form a thick kinda black choc moose and takes most of the liquid with it, so creating almost a dry solution at the bottom where most of the cat powder is along with most of the PM's.
So my guessing, it would be best to remove the carbon either b4 turning the cats into powder or once powderised, then heat to about 700degrees celcius to remove the carbon and then process the cats.
I'll give this a shot during the week as thats all my Hydrochlric done and need to collect another 25L from my supplier :twisted:

 

[Oz]

If by pulverizing to a fine powder you can reliably remove the carbon from the surface, that would seem to be the way to go. Carbon can rob values, but it is far simpler to incinerate a small quantity instead of whole converters. Be sure to treat the ash from your carbon incineration for the values it may contain.

I look forward to your results.

 

[skeeter629]

I have some beads from cats, and was wondering if I should wash them with soap and water to remove carbon before inceneration. Or, is this a waste of time.

 

[butcher]

good thing about carbon it burns.

 

[chrisv]

Skeeter, LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, ROFL.
Sorry, I just couldn't contain myself there for a minute.
Well, here in the UK we have a great store that actualy does just that for you, the store is called Furnace supplies, you get one that heat the soap and water upto 700degrees.
You simple take you powder or even your beands, plonk them into a dish that can with stand the temp, and you switch it on and away you go, doesn't use water, you dont need to dry them after.

Actualy, I'm sure it possible just to even do one bead at a time with some washing up liquid and a brialo dish pad, only thing is you might loose some value

 

[Oz]

Well, here in the UK we have a great store that actualy does just that for you, the store is called Furnace supplies, you get one that heat the soap and water upto 700degrees.
You simple take you powder or even your beads, plonk them into a dish that can with stand the temp, and you switch it on and away you go, doesn't use water, you dont need to dry them after.

Yea, I would think your “washing” store is charging something for their services. Then they get to keep your “waste” to dispose of in a most profitable manner.

 

[chrisv]

Ha HA, OZ, sorry, just woke up when I replied to that message, not really a morning person untill I've had my first 2 cups of coffee for the start of the day.. LOL
What I ment was, these's a store here that supplies you with this equipment to do the job of removing the carbon.

Just a thought though, if you were to heat up the powder, would the powder not be pulled up and out with that kinda heat where as if the cats were still as a whole or even in bite sizes, you wouldn't loose to much value as only the carbon would get cooked off with the height, then after this process, then continue to crush the cats into powder?

 

[Oz]

Honestly I would have to see a picture of the machine that your local “store” provides or leases, and a full description as to how it is to be operated in order to have an opinion of much value.

I am curious as to how you will do with your powder though and how effectively you feel you have removed the carbon. I would also be interested to hear what values the carbon contained after processing.

 

[chrisv]

Well, right now I dont have this machine :lol: but only suggested that some sort of furnace would do the job, but in saying that, I have just spoken to my engineer whom I will be going to see on Monday as he recons he has just the solution.
So, I shall be taking some pics to share with all of yous and hopefully its up to the job and that might inspire some of us to start getting down to business.

I know somebody mentioned on the forum that they use a method of I think, holding that cat in a bench top vice, and then heating the cat with a blow torch, sure somebody also mentioned using a heavy duty heat gun, the type used for stripping off paint :roll:

 

[lazersteve]

The problem with burning carbon off of the cats is that carbon forms volatile compounds with some PGMS, especially Pd. These compounds go up in smoke with the carbon.

I wash my cats out with a strong jet of water and filter the water to collect the carbon for proper disposal.

Steve

 

[chrisv]

Thanks for that Steve, never really thought about that 8)

Also, I know that it is said that Hydrochloric will take some value's, but what if you took a 50L drum, made a dialuted solution of water and Hydrochloric, then soaked the cats in there for some time to try and remove the bulk of the carbon, then after that, then go onto processing the cats. Once that cat soaking solution has perrished, you can then try and recover any values from it??
Please note, the above mentioned is just a thought and nothing more. :roll:

 

[lazersteve]

Water is cheaper and easier to work with than HCl. Use it as you described and you'll be good. I find a quick wash with water nearly elimnates the bulk of the carbon from the next steps.

Steve

 

[Barren Realms 007]

The problem with burning carbon off of the cats is that carbon forms volatile compounds with some PGMS, especially Pd. These compounds go up in smoke with the carbon.

I wash my cats out with a strong jet of water and filter the water to collect the carbon for proper disposal.

Steve

When you say a strong jet are you referring to a pressure washer, a sink hand sprayer, just a faucet on full or a water hose sprayer?

 

[lazersteve]

Hose with and adjustable sprayer for a quick blast into a large bucket.

Steve

 

[Barren Realms 007]

That's what I figured. Thanks

 

[lazersteve]

Be sure to wear your safety gear as the carbon/water likes to splatter around under the prssure of the water. You'll get the hang of how much pressure to use after a few cats. An old long sleeve jacket or shirt helps too.

Steve

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Possibly an old dishwasher set up just for this in a closed loop system might work.

 

[chrisv]

Thanks again steve, If you recon the dialuted HCL will work well, I think I'd use that method as I can get the stuff almost cheaper than what I pay for my distilled water, lol
Also, as metioned b4, Im thinking of going into this cat processing full time and also, here in Scotland, we dont get many nice weather days so we are rather limited to what we can/cant do when it comes to playing outside with preasure washers, lol :roll: Also, drainage for the water and carbon would be a problem as you'd need a paved area otherwise my wife is going to kill me if I turn her grass from green to black, lol

Also, with a dishwasher, is there a fair bit of preasure when its in opperation, just thought that it was more to do with the hot water removing all the dirt and grime off the dishes

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Yea there is as much pressure if not more as comes out of a sprayer on a water hose. Plus there is a built in heating element. You can set it up on a stand alone loop system where the drain pumps thru a filter to filter out most of the carbon and impurities, and it pumps into a holding tank. You can have it wired up where when the unit calls for water it closes a relay that turns on a pump to fill the dishwasher back up for the next cycle. Since there is a wash cycle and a rinse cycle you could wire it up to 2 holding tanks one for each system and hen the rinse water gets dirty you could use it for the wash cycle and discard the wash water after proper treatment.

 

[chrisv]

Hy Barren, When you coming here to build one for me, lol
So you not just moody you quite clued up to Master of all when it comes to construction