Dropping Palladium use C2H2 gases

[Joko sulistyo]

Hi,folks.
A few days ago,I try to dropping Palladium from Palladium nitrate solution.I just use calcium carbide(CAC2).I put calcium carbide into the solution.A fter a few hours,black mud settle down.I filter that black mud with filter papper.Wash 3 time with hot water and then roast the filter papper with brown mud until to be ash.Finally I melting with my crucible.The result is white silvery color metal.Likely palladium.What's you opinions?
More details,you can wacth my video.
https://youtu.be/w2rS0HBZbPc

Have a nice day..

 

[Lino1406]

Zinc costs less

 

[Joko sulistyo]

Thanks,Lino.
I use calcium carbide because it's easier to find here than zinc.May I ask you?How many percent purity of palladium when dropping use c2h2 gases?assume the solution is copper palladium nitrate.This picture below is the result when dropping with c2h2 gas.I try to give one drop of hno3 to the metal surface.The reaction is very very slowly.There is a dark yellow color.No black spot,that mean no gold contaminant?

 

[Lou]

Be careful forming acetylides!!

 

[kurtak]

Be careful forming acetylides!!

You beat me to it Lou

Metal acetylides can go BOOM :shock:

Kurt

 

[g_axelsson]

I watched the video and one thing stands out to me. The temperature is probably far from what is needed to melt palladium. Silver on the other hand would melt at that temperature. I would suspect that there is quite a lot of silver in the buttons.

As for the safety warning, listen on Lou, if he tells you something is dangerous then I would listen carefully.
I have no experience myself of using acetylene as a chemical in refining but I trust Kurt and Lou.

Göran

 

[Lino1406]

Calcium carbide is stronger reducer than hydrogen hence copper will be reduced with the palladium. This is dangerous, for copper (1) may produce acetylide and I do not see how it is avoided with certainty

 

[Joko sulistyo]

Thanks for the warning.I will be carefull.I'm doing this work in open area.Acetylide,as far as I know,only can ignite by heat or shock.When I use cac2,no heat produced.

 

[Indigo Suelo]

You can run a chemical analysis on it, first you visually identify the metal, as you did saying its likely palladium. Then you would scratch on a ceramic, make a good streak, and test in acid.
Using a silver test you would notice no visual reaction but when you wipe the test plate it would indicate red. Another method is using purified h2o and sodium bicarbonate with added electric current. The mixture is used in identifying palladium and it results in a blue color.
Based on your visual, and hardness test (scratch on ceramic) and the acid test, you can take its density and properly assay it as your find. Heat tests also work. ..
They usually involve acid and electricity as well but you get to use your torch.

 

[Indigo Suelo]

Hey again, using the bicarbonate solution helps reduce impurities as most other precious metals and even copper (to an extent) are resistant to the mix. The palladium breaks down into a blue color. I have a minute or so video if you would like to see it done
Personally I like to use the heat transfer method. Where you use heat to transfer a small amount onto a wire or other metal surface and then test the wire. It's good to have a control piece so you can identify the differences.

 

[Joko sulistyo]

Thanks,Indigo Suelo.
For Goran,I believe there is no silver in my solution before because I dropping silver first use Hcl and filtering silver chloride.
Indigo,I try to melt this metal with my mapp torch but it's very difficult.This metal absorb air fastly and start be springkle over the crucible.The only way I can melt this metal is use my big furnace and use little trick(adding coal to increase heat and use more borax).When the metal start melt and sinking down into borax,I believe no air/oxygen will disturb the melting metal.So,the result is shiny and smooth like the picture above.

 

[Indigo Suelo]

That sounds like an excellent method to melting this type of metal. Borax as a flux works because it's a type of acid which burns off clean. I've used a oxygen acetalyne to heat and it gets only some parts hot enough to flow. The furnace is what I would find ideal, and the added carbon from the coal helps in achieving needed temp and purity.
I'cant wait to get a furnace going. I'm working down a natural platinum ore find and as you can imagine it's been a learning process.

 

[Joko sulistyo]

Yeah..I have a dream.Someday I want to process platinum and maybe rhodium too.I have the material from industrial equipments.That's will be more complicated.P latinum need very high temp to melt.My furnace never reach that temperature.However,thanks for response.

 

[kurtak]

Thanks for the warning.I will be carefull.I'm doing this work in open area.Acetylide,as far as I know,only can ignite by heat or shock.When I use cac2,no heat produced.

Per the underlined --- I think you are confused about what we are telling you

We are NOT talking about "acetylene" being the problem (C2H2) which is the gas produced when you put the CaC2 in the acid that then precipitates the metal

We ARE talking about the "acetylide" which is the (solid) precipitate that is the result using acetylene (gas) as your reducing reagent for precipitation

In other words - using C2H2 (acetylene gas) to precipitate metals from acidic solutions can/will produce precipitated acetylides & it is these precipitated acetylides that are VERY heat &/or pressure sensitive explosives

What i don't know --- I don't know if acetylene can/will precipitate palladium as an acetylide

What I do know --- I know that acetylene can/will precipitate copper, mercury & silver as acetylides

Acetylides of those metals precipitated from acidic solutions would most certainly be explosive - so the danger would be when you go to melt the Pd if any of those metals also came down as acetylides when you used acetylene to precipitate the Pd

assume the solution is copper palladium nitrate.

per the underlined --- be careful - VERY CAREFUL

Better yet - being as how you have copper in solution - use copper to cement your Pd from your solution

Cementing Pd from solution with copper is "a bit" tricky so you have to do it right

If you need help with that - I will be glad to help you with that

Kurt

 

[Joko sulistyo]

Hi,Kurt.
I apreciate your suggestions.Yes I will always very carefully.I always make sure that will be safe.
A month ago,I try to cementing PD use copper bar hang in the solution of PD nitrate.With magnetic stirrer,air bubbler and keep the solution warm.Yes,the PD can dropped but it take very very long time.Do you have better methods?Thanks.

 

[kurtak]

A month ago,I try to cementing PD use copper bar hang in the solution of PD nitrate.With magnetic stirrer,air bubbler and keep the solution warm.Yes,the PD can dropped but it take very very long time.Do you have better methods?Thanks.

You can read more about cementing with copper here

:arrow: Cement

there are links in what I posted in that thread - read them as well

Kurt

 

[Joko sulistyo]

Thank you,Kurt.