Feasable?

[Nervin]

The person i normally get Nitric acid from is no longer selling so I have been looking for another place to get it. I did come across this http://www.ebay.com/itm/281599449179?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT Never came across 99% before... any thoughts? or does anyone know of a place near Nashville?

 

[jeneje]

I have never heard of 99% but you can buy 70% CP from Greenway Chemical in Knoxville.
Ken

 

[butcher]

25ml what are you using it for? just small test reagent, 25 ml is not much solution.

 

[goldsilverpro]

The nitric acid that makes up the 70% solution (70% nitric + 30% pure water, by weight) is 99.999% pure. You certainly don't need this super high purity. Technical grade nitric (usually about 67-68%, by weight), made with about 99% pure nitric, works fine and is much, much, much cheaper. Try to find a company that buys technical grade chemicals by the bag or drum and then repackages them in smaller amounts, mainly for hobbyists. The last time I bought just one gallon, I paid about $20-$30. If you get into this seriously, the 55 gallon drum price is about $4 a gallon (~$1/liter), plus about a $900 deposit for the 304 stainless drum, which you get back 100% when you return the drum. Intermediate sizes, such as a 15 gallon SS carboy, are priced somewhere in between.

 

[Nervin]

Thank you for the referral Ken.. I will definitely be checking them out.

Like I said before the person I use to get my Nitric from doesn't sell anymore so I have been trying to find someone local. Since I am not doing any refining at the moment and just stocking up and getting ready to build a refining shed and scrubbers I thought I would look on Ebay and see what was available or look on line and that listing was the only one that was higher than 30% nitric (at least specifically noting it). A friend of mine who makes fireworks say's there is a chemical place somewhere in Nashville but I can never seem to find it. Thank you for the responses though.. I am weary of eBay anyway when it comes to chemicals and refining..

 

[Nervin]

Well I have definitely found an alternative. I learned how to make my own with a distiller.. Yaaaaaayyy no more shipping costs that are almost double the price of it anymore. Cool thing is it's not the weak version either. Thank you again for the suggestions though and like always this forum is great for information...

 

[necromancer]

i went to a pool supply shop and asked the owner if he was willing to buy nitric acid and resell it to me.

he agreed, now i have a constant supply of one gallon jugs at a honest price.

it never hurts to ask 8)

 

[Nervin]

I still have 20 pounds of KNO3 and a distiller plus more time on my hands than I know what to do with so once I build my lab then I figure I can Make my own Acids and save money in the process. The biggest pain would be to make hydrochloric so just buying at Lowes and concentrating it would be easier. My brain hurts right now from reading Hokes for the third time and reviewing all my college chemistry books. Fun days.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

The hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) at Lowes / Home Depot / Menards should be in the ~30 - 32% range. That is considered concentrated hydrochloric acid. There's no need to try to concentrate it any further.

Dave

 

[Barren Realms 007]

You might be able to find the HCL cheaper at a local hardware store, pool supply store or laundry chemical supply.

 

[jeneje]

Just a note here.

When distilling Nitric acid - if you concentrate the acid down to much, you can create a possible explosive. Make sure you understand what you are doing. It is recommended to buy Nitric, rather then distill your own. Caution is advised Here!

Here is a link to read,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_fuming_nitric_acid

Ken

 

[jason_recliner]

i went to a pool supply shop and asked the owner if he was willing to buy nitric acid and resell it to me.

he agreed, now i have a constant supply of one gallon jugs at a honest price.

it never hurts to ask 8)

Ooh, you have piqued my interest. Is that something a pool supplier would otherwise have a legitimate use for? I know HCl is regularly used in pools. But nitric? Or did you talk him into buying a product just for you, since he has the chemical supply contacts?

I am trying to source nitric locally and all I can find is lab quality, 100ml at a time, at various Ludicrous Prices 'R' Us suppliers. I'd be happy with some kind of cattle truck cleaning grade.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

I'd be happy with some kind of cattle truck cleaning grade.

That is a priceless statement. I love that.

 

[g_axelsson]

Just a note here.

When distilling Nitric acid - if you concentrate the acid down to much, you can create a possible explosive. Make sure you understand what you are doing. It is recommended to buy Nitric, rather then distill your own. Caution is advised Here!

Here is a link to read,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_fuming_nitric_acid

Ken

Unless using highly specialized methods to distill with drying agents and stuff it's impossible to make red fuming nitric by simple distilling it.
The azeotrope of nitric acid is 68%, whenever you heat a mixture with less than 68% strength more water than nitric will evaporate and concentrate the acid, but above 68% the acid part will evaporate faster than the water and your concentration will go down.
When at 68% it will evaporate without affecting the concentration.

Practically (based on my reading), when heating weak nitric acid it will evaporate mostly water until the concentration reaches around 50%, then it will continue to evaporate more water but there will be a significant loss of nitric too, so going past 50% is hard and wasteful.

Now, there are few procedures that we actually need concentrated nitric acid in refining, diluted are okay , it will only take a bit longer and the acid will actually last longer because of reabsorbed nitric oxides forms new acid.

Göran

 

[jeneje]

Just a note here.

When distilling Nitric acid - if you concentrate the acid down to much, you can create a possible explosive. Make sure you understand what you are doing. It is recommended to buy Nitric, rather then distill your own. Caution is advised Here!

Here is a link to read,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_fuming_nitric_acid

Ken

Unless using highly specialized methods to distill with drying agents and stuff it's impossible to make red fuming nitric by simple distilling it.
The azeotrope of nitric acid is 68%, whenever you heat a mixture with less than 68% strength more water than nitric will evaporate and concentrate the acid, but above 68% the acid part will evaporate faster than the water and your concentration will go down.
When at 68% it will evaporate without affecting the concentration.

Practically (based on my reading), when heating weak nitric acid it will evaporate mostly water until the concentration reaches around 50%, then it will continue to evaporate more water but there will be a significant loss of nitric too, so going past 50% is hard and wasteful.

Now, there are few procedures that we actually need concentrated nitric acid in refining, diluted are okay , it will only take a bit longer and the acid will actually last longer because of reabsorbed nitric oxides forms new acid.

Göran

Goran, thank you for your clarification - however, there are youtube videos out on the net that explains how to create RFNA. If members try to reproduce this for refining it is extremely dangerous. I would post a link to such a video but, there is no need to do that. I think those videos should be taken down but, that is just my opinion.

Thanks
Ken

 

[Nervin]

Believe me I understand the dangers of it. Of course I would have no refining use for a concentration that high; however, if I make 500 ml of fuming nitric then dilute it myself then I can eliminate the high costs. The only reason I bought it before is because I had a friend who bought in bulk and then he would re bottle and redistribute and he wouldn't charge me that much. So essentially I got spoiled and when he decided to stop doing that I got a real look at how much and cringed.

Another cool thing (And very Dangerous) is that pure nitric on nitrile (and I believe latex) will set them on fire. Not too worried about that part as I wear neoprene and butyl gloves when handling any corrosive or caustic chemical.

Jeneje is right--there are a lot of videos on how to make all kinds of chemicals. I personally went to my old college chemistry professor and talked to him and he showed me after I assured him I was doing it for refining and not making drugs (Meth is apparently a big deal around here). While I do include homemade videos in my research I don't hold them as written in stone. Especially when I saw a person handling sulfuric with no safety gear, and another was a person pouring purified H2O2 (I think he said 90% pure) on leather to set it on fire. But from what my teacher said "Chemists love to make reactions happen and see WHAT happens." But as long as there is an internet there will be information out there, safe or dangerous.

I can't really say much about it being dangerous though.. I Use to make fireworks and made 6 and 12 inch mortars for the fourth of July--I was just very careful. I will definitely be careful in this instance too and anything I distilled (Made) would get diluted for sure. I am crazy--just not stupid crazy.

 

[mjgraham]

I had always made my own distilled nitric, turns out to be about 63% when I am done, it works but takes like 3 hrs per liter and you have all the setup, cleanup possibility for a bird to land on it and crash it all to the ground, etc.. after calling that Greenway bunch mentioned earlier it is $4.50 per gallon in at 15 gallon drum($250 deposit), my next question I know the popular thing is to get it and offload to secondary containers to get the drum charge back, what are we offloading into that will last a long time (that is cost effective)? 15 gallons will likely last me for a decade at the rate I am using it now.
Thanks
Jarrid